Don’t Get Over Him – Just Keep Going PAST Him – This Way

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A recent client I’ll call Annie sent me this letter after our session, and it started a great conversation about getting over a man and “moving on” that will be helpful to you…no matter WHAT your situation:


I was going through my notes from last night and some of them are not clear to me this morning. I was hoping to clear them up and at the same time I have a request. Our conversation last night gave me a clearer way of looking at Bob and I would like to keep that clear picture so that my bad feelings won’t get me down.

In fact I thinking making a list(s) of reasons why I’m not at fault, why I’m more deserving of something better would be very helpful to me. Many times I need an outside perspective to help me and I really appreciate and respect your prospective. Would you help me make these lists so that I can review them anytime I want?

First reasons why I’m not at fault and it’s Bob not me… (note: I keep saying fault because the way he was treating me – sarcastically, mean, neglecting me and blaming me was like he was trying to find fault with me, he wanted to run away from me, but there was no reason for it.)

You and I talked about:

Him being a sociopath. That is when someone can only think of themselves and puts themselves first. What reasons do you have for believing this? I think knowing these reasons will help me understand better. What do you think applies to Bob? You had asked me if I had a history of knowing people like that and yes I can think of a few, is there a reason for this?

You had mentioned that perhaps he was incapable of having a relationship. Again, I’d like to formalize some reasons.

You had at one point stated that “if he’s willing to give you up over this…” I think I lost track of what I was writing. Would it be safe to says you were trying to say that if he’s willing to give me up something as simple as arguing that he is not a strong enough man for me? that something is wrong with him?

You had also mentioned that I’m doing the choosing – not him. At the time I remember I liked the way it felt to think that. I remember feeling that if I thought that way I would feel powerful, but now I have forgotten why this statement is true. Today I don’t feel that way. Can you remind me again?

You had also mentioned that he can’t “catch.” What makes Bob incapable of not catching?

Why do you feel that he is not stable, dramatic and not dependable? I have an idea but it really helps to have an outside perspective.

I will let him do what he does, however I just need this understanding. I need to understand to let go.

Next, why I’m deserving?

You had so many wonderful things to say about me last night, things that I had not heard before and I know you believe them to be true and I believed them to be true. So many that I wanted to hear them and not miss them. I couldn’t write them down. Would you provide me with a list so that I can review it everyday.

I’m happy to have this posted to the blog, I just don’t know where would be an appropriate place for it. Thanks! Annie

My answer:

Annie – this is a brilliant letter, and I’m going to write a long reply to it and post them both on the blog – for now, though, I wanted to give you something.. Let’s divide it into 2 sections:

1. About Bob
2. About you

About Bob – you can get the best picture of him from the quiz in Toxic Men if you have it – if you don’t, get it and then you can return it in 30 days if you like.

However – I don’t want you focusing on him. Because his reasons for not holding up his side of the relationship aren’t important, except how they relate to you – in other words –if you were continually being involved with a man like this and ending up in the same situation over and over again – that would be important to know. But because you’re so young and this has been such an important relationship for you – it’s hard to find that pattern right now.

It also might be helpful to simply sort out what stuff belongs to “him” and what belongs to you. for instance – If you’re feeling the need to control, and speaking and acting from there – (look at the “4 Rules” in the ebook) that’s your stuff. If he has no real sensitivity to you as a person – that’s HIS stuff.

Now – About you. These lists you ask me to help you with are great – and will you start building them first?

When you get to the “deserving’ list – the first reason is simply because you’re a woman. Period. Doesn’t that feel good? You don’t have to do anything – you’re just a woman. Just a girl. Girls deserve love.

More later. Love, Rori

From Annie:

I have the Toxic Men program and at the time I took the test he was mainly Narcissistic – see the listing below as to whether or not that is true. He also scored high on B but I can’t remember what B was.

Rori, my mind drew a blank I why I deserve better? I agree, just because I’m a woman is a wonderful reason but I don’t know anything else. Maybe you can guide me.

1. He didn’t take care of me.
2. He took me for granted
3. He didn’t know and refused to understand me
4. He refused to be a better man
5. He held a carrot in front of me.
6. He put himself first
7. He lied
8. He blamed
9. He neglected me
10. He was indifferent to me
11. He didn’t listen to me
12. He treated me like a yo-yo
13. Football was more important than me.
14. He didn’t look at me with admiration
15. He wasn’t proud of me
16. He would turn his back on me.
17. The honey moon period was 1-2 months, he loved me then but would soon back pedal
18. He didn’t cherish me.
19. He was sarcastic
20. He was mean
21. He was unsympathetic
22. He wasn’t free with his time with me
23. He held all my power
24. He wasn’t affectionate
25. He had more important things to do than be with me

WHY was he like this? I don’t understand, I believe I am a great catch.

I’m deserving because I’m:

1. A woman
2. A good person

Now from me:

Annie – first and foremost – read your list.  Regardless of what that says about HIM – is this the kind of man you want?

And all you need on the list of why you deserve love is that you’re a woman…you don’t need to do anything else.  The Universe wants you to be happy….Rori

Now from Annie

No, I don’t want a man like this, but he was the opposite of this list for the first couple of months. That alone makes this list hard to swallow because there was no reason for this switch. I mean he went from wanting to marry me, to buying me Tiffany’s necklace to being mean and sarcastic with me in a month and half to two months. I don’t get it. Again I guess I have to remember what the commitment phobia website says.

How can I break this connection to him? I want to break it. That’s a big step for me to even say. I use to not want to and try to get him back. I want to break it. I want to be free of wanting him.  Can I also be free of wanting him and still want him to desire me as I desired him?

Also I am trying to look at a man, any man for 5 seconds. Man, Rori, this terrifies me. I tried the other day at Starbucks. I could only do if for 2 seconds and he looked directly at me and I was so terrified I looked away. Thinking about what you are suggesting terrifies me! How can we make this easier to do and to think about?

From me to Annie:

Brava!! Yeaaay – Annie – just DISCOVERING how terrifying this is for you is a HUGE breakthrough. You get more comfortable by practicing. That’s all. Just keep doing it. That’s why the Tools work. Just do them. Every one of them. Just practice out there. You’ll feel less scared after awhile, and bingo, someone will talk to you. You’ll be scared. You’ll practice more. Someone else will talk to you.

This is like major therapy in weeks!!!

Now–From Me To You…

I wanted to post this so you could see what processing through what’s going on for you works – even without me on the phone with you guiding you.

Our brains are programmed to think in certain ways.  It’s challenging to think in different ways than we thought before, challenging to try to solve problems with “the same mind’ that CREATED the problem in the first place!

Instead…the way to get what you want is to get so active out there and so triggered that you become AWARE of how your mind works, and how you’re instinctively following your old patterns of thoughts and actions down the rabbit hole after what you DON’T want. If you think of all this as HABIT – instead of as some horrendously difficult, deeply entrenched thing that’s “wrong” with you…it will all happen so much more quickly!

The Free Therapy of Circular Dating, and the step-by-baby-step path you take will get you fast results that will motivate you to keep going – even if it’s in a direction you never even IMAGINED before!

If it feels good…keep thinking and doing it.

If it feels bad…stop thinking and doing it.

Simple as it sounds…it will start to work.There are many mind-body techniques that work brilliantly to help you along with this –  meditating, breathing, yoga, “energy therapies” – so much.

And you don’t have to do it all – or ANY of it!.  Just know it’s available, it can help speed things up, but – you CAN do it yourself!!!

Read again how Annie needed everything laid out so concretely and carefully in order to “get” it into her brain.  Try it for YOU!

Love, Rori


  1.  #1Kath on September 30, 2010 at 9:02 am

    Rori you are truly amazing and a mind reader!- I so needed to hear this and shake those feelings up in me for the final time. I told my Toxic Man this morning that I couldn’t ever forgive him for the way he has treated me and that I want him to move out as soon as possible. He then tried to make out he didn’t understand why I was so adamant that it was over. (We have been through this just a few times before!) but the minute I said I wanted him to leave, he said “See, you have to have that power over me, thats why I can never feel safe with you”- Argh!!!- He moved in with me for Christs Sake!!!- there’s no power intended!. He has messed with my brain for so long and now I just want it to stop-for him to leave me alone for good!- and for me to get on with my life. I have been in that pit of despair where I have felt it must be me, but I know now that its him-even though I am constantly told by him “Its all in your head” and the classic”you’re off your head you are”- and the constant name calling and putting me down. Now I have put up the barriers and don’t listen to any of the rubbish he comes out with- I know my worth and I know I am worth more than he has dealt out-he hasn’t given me anything but misery and tears. Thank you Rori-for making me see my own strength and act on it!!

  2.  #2Mercedes on September 30, 2010 at 10:56 am

    This is really, really good stuff. I don’t have time to sit with it too much, but I will read it again later…reading quickly…I love it.

    Thanks for sharing..and Annie…if you’re reading…thanks for letting us see the process too…

    Much Love,

  3.  #3Mai on September 30, 2010 at 10:59 am

    why does it have to turn out like this for people who start off in good relationships. the man knows what is good and bad behaviour… so why does he change? is he self-sabotaging his own life because he himself believes he doesn’t deserve a good woman? i suppose he likes the feeling and power and control over the woman

    whats to blame?
    is it this fast-life/recession/modern culture to blame?
    bad childhood?
    our choices?
    because we think we deserve bad behaviour?

    how do we fix it..?

  4.  #4Meemee on September 30, 2010 at 11:09 am

    I am also in a similar situation. I am with this man who does not care for me. He does not have time for me, and refuses to talk to me and be with me for fear that his friends will find out. He does not acknowledge that this is a relationship. I have to do lots of begging, I cant tell you Rori, to get his love (?), his attention, his time. He does not call me. If I text him, he texts me back only if he has got time and only if he is not with his family and friends. I fell ill and was in hopital for many days and he did not even bother to call me to see how I am doing. Also when try to talk to him that I feel neglected he shouts at me saying that I am hysteric and I am behaving neurotic. He even said I am piling on to him. Many a time I broke down infront of him and cried too. But he asks me to go away when I do that.
    Today I was talking to one of his friends who does not know I sleep with him and she asked me is there anything happening between me and him. Since he always wanted to keep the secrecy, I brushed that question aside. Later when I called him I told him this. I said I feel that I am living a big lie and next time when she asks me anything about us, I will tell her what the thruth is. He got angry and said if I do that I will be driving him away.
    I feel too stressed out because of this relationship. We work in the same place, I cant even tell my friends when I feel upset and low since almost all my friends are his friends too and since there is this rule of secracy.
    Please tell me what I shoud do? I tried to go away from him, but found myself begging to him, asking him to spend his time with me etc after two weeks.
    I need help. I need to get past him. I really need to. Please reply me

  5.  #5Meemee on September 30, 2010 at 11:12 am

    I am also in a similar situation. I am with this man who does not care for me. He does not have time for me, and refuses to talk to me and be with me for fear that his friends will find out. He does not acknowledge that this is a relationship. I have to do lots of begging, I cant tell you Rori, to get his love (?), his attention, his time. He does not call me. If I text him, he texts me back only if he has got time and only if he is not with his family and friends. I fell ill and was in hopital for many days and he did not even bother to call me to see how I am doing. Also when try to talk to him that I feel neglected he shouts at me saying that I am hysteric and I am behaving neurotic. He even said I am piling on to him. Many a time I broke down infront of him and cried too. But he asks me to go away when I do that.
    Today I was talking to one of his friends who does not know I sleep with him and she asked me is there anything happening between me and him. Since he always wanted to keep the secrecy, I brushed that question aside. Later when I called him I told him this. I said I feel that I am living a big lie and next time when she asks me anything about us, I will tell her what the thruth is. He got angry and said if I do that I will be driving him away.
    I feel too stressed out because of this relationship. We work in the same place, I cant even tell my friends when I feel upset and low since almost all my friends are his friends too and since there is this rule of secracy.
    Please tell me what I shoud do? I tried to go away from him, but found myself begging to him, asking him to spend his time with me etc after two weeks.
    I need help. I need to get past him. I really need to. Please reply me

  6.  #6Amy F. on September 30, 2010 at 11:27 am


    I think the lesson is that it does not matter why a man is acting the way he does. If we are using the Rori tools and it still does not feel good, we must move him to the back of our horse and he will eventually fall off.

    I have noticed my pattern is that I attract lots of men, and like Annie’s situation, they chase me hard for 2-3 months, I become intoxicated, focus on that man and then he withdraws. Part of it is the men I choose. Part of it is I get intoxicated. Even though I lean back and don’t initiate, have my own life, my vibe is still too much on him. This is totally my stuff – attention from a man feels so good and so much in my life feels so bad. I gravitate toward the light coming from a man that looks and feels as bright as the sun even though in reality it’s only a flashlight! I’m escaping reality and creating fantasy. My challenge is to warm myself with the light from my own sun. I have seriously high self esteem and like myself but I don’t really know how to warm myself, if this makes any sense.

  7.  #7Ragnell on September 30, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    I recommend if you feel like you are crazy or guilty or unsure if what you are going through is emotional/verbal abuse.

  8.  #8Aminata on September 30, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    Hey Kath~

    I had guys telling me I was crazy and it was all in my head. That’s what abusers say! I’m here to tell you, there is nothing wrong with you! Bravo to you for telling him to move out and toeing the line in the sand. Keep growing in your strength!

  9.  #9BarbinOz on September 30, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    #Amy F.

    Great post!! I love your analogy to the sun and the flashlight!! Oh and YES intoxicated, that is a very familiar word to me, I have to stop falling so hard that I lose myself in the process……baby steps.

  10.  #10BarbinOz on September 30, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    #1 Kath

    Oh yes that’s what abusive people do, tell you it’s all in your head and you are off your head or imagining things, etc. You know what the truth is and well done for taking this firm stand. Keep posting on here for extra strength. x

  11.  #11Mai on September 30, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    thank you amy f..x

  12.  #12lm on September 30, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    there is a guy at work who is really red-faced and nervous around me. it makes me feel good. it’s really cute.

  13.  #13Jacqueline on September 30, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    Rori is a brilliant woman!!! always…

    Mai, Jason & I have been talking about that – people changing, and we’ve come up with two change points – one at three months and one at two years (I think there’s another at 5 years)…Jason’s thought is really good – I’ll shoot him an email to post it here.

    My thought is that men are what you want until they decide what they want to do with you – IF they want you, the keep being what you want but at two years they break – they either think they HAVE you and therefore can, or they just can’t keep it up. At three months they start to decide or have decided.

    Jonathon said that at three months you’ve seen the good the bad and the ugly, but I don’t agree…off to find Jason.

    I hope one day Rori writes about narciscism – that may be scarier than sociopath to me….

    ps….nice to finally meet you!


  14.  #14lm on September 30, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    i’ve been doing an experiment where i imagine that everything everyone does or says feels like love. it’s sort of amazing. i realise how heavily my interactions with men are coloured by how receptive i am to love. wow. it’s like at the beginning of a relationship when all your walls are down and all this good stuff just rushes toward you…

    also, i see now that when i was in a bad place javier bardem could have proposed on a mountain top and i would have still felt like crap because i had not dealt with ME.

    my vibe is totally different! yay! and now i feel compassion for the girl i was back then who had such a hard time and was so hard on herself.


  15.  #15Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    Im, I read a quote somewhere that said everything anyone ever does is either an ACT of love or a CRY for love.

  16.  #16Amy F. on September 30, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    Yes, baby steps. Fixing what feels bad in my life so I feel good about what I’ve created instead of focusing on what a man is giving to me is job #1. I was always good at warming myself – I was focused on my goals first and a man second or third (sometimes even fourth!). Somehow as life has gotten harder, I have shifted to getting that warm feeling from a man. Time to go “old school” and go back to my original way of being in the world!

  17.  #17tinque on September 30, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    Three months? No way. More like three years. All the cards don’t get played for at least two. Though maybe ages play a role at time differences.

  18.  #18tinque on September 30, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    Amy F – Well said.

  19.  #19Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    I don’t know how to fix the things that feel bad in my life.

  20.  #20Renee on September 30, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    I feel the same way, Lucy. My career and frienships aren’t what I would like them to be right now…I’m trying to improve them, but I’ve been so caught up in Blondie the past 2 weeks that I haven’t applied myself to either the way I would have liked.

    At least my family relationships are good right now…that’s a blessing.

  21.  #21Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    Renee, my problem is that everything that feels unfixable in my life feels more bearable when there is a good man sharing life with me. My career and friendships even improve when there is a man in the picture.

  22.  #22Kimberly on September 30, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    Great post Rori. As usual. Annie, hang in there. You’re on the right track to keep trying to move on, to keep trying something new and different in your thinking, and to fake it til you make it (in knowing that you deserve better).


  23.  #23Amy F. on September 30, 2010 at 8:25 pm

    I know how you feel. However, a high from a man is a temporary high, like crack! It wears off and you need more and more for it to keep feeling good. I feel like I have been on man-crack for a year now. Time to go to rehab!

    The high you get from within lasts. It’s infectious and draws both man and women quality to you. Shining from within is so hard to do once you have smoked the man-crack. It’s almost like I’ve had to overdose and get sick of men and the merry-go-round cycle to feel my way through how to make my own goals and interests job #1 again. I’ve been reading about self -focus here on this blog and listening to Rori for months. I nodded my head and understood it intellectually (and have been that woman in the past), but am only recently feeling it in my heart. Baby steps.

    Writing about this journey and taking it with all of you gives me the courage to do this well. Thank you!

  24.  #24Lucy on September 30, 2010 at 8:52 pm

    Hi Amy. I wasn’t really talking about the temporary “high” of feeling “in love.” I’m referring to the longterm lasting benefits of genuine love/marriage – friendship, companionship, sharing joys and sorrows, physical touch, sex, etc.

  25.  #25life_is_too_short_to... on September 30, 2010 at 8:57 pm

    “Shining from within is so hard to do once you have smoked the man-crack. It’s almost like I’ve had to overdose and get sick of men and the merry-go-round cycle to feel my way through how to make my own goals and interests job #1 again.”

    Well said, Amy!

    On one hand, I feel the same way. I rather like not having to answer to anyone or depending on a man for my happiness.

    On the other hand, I feel like it has been too long that I have been having to carry both male and female energies, raising my children on my own,
    focusing on my goals and interests,
    with a couple of year-long romances, but
    never finding anyone suitable.

    It has only been 18 months since i re-entered the dating scene in 2009 after something like eight years, so disenchanted was I with the emotional unavailability of the men that I was attracted to up til that time.

    I feel somewhat unbalanced because of it, and my mind, heart, body and spirit at times viscerally cries out for a man. Sometimes this interferes with focusing on my own goals and interests, but I am taking a holistic approach and taking care of myself as best I can.

    love to all

  26.  #26life_is_too_short_to... on September 30, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    I have complete faith that in clearing the toxicity within me, I will magnetically attract the good loving man that is waiting in the wings

  27.  #27life_is_too_short_to... on September 30, 2010 at 9:11 pm

    Yes, Lucy, being “in love” isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.
    In fact, I don’t even want to “fall in love”. I already AM love, and I don’t need to fall. I want to stand on terra firma with my Beloved radiating shining love….

  28.  #28Amy F. on September 30, 2010 at 9:31 pm

    I understand Lucy. Don’t get me wrong – I want a satisfying relationship with a man. Lasting love where as Life Is Too Short says – I am love and he does everything else! The Virgin Mary was just who she was. I’ll be she did not chase Joseph around begging for crumbs. Can you imagine? Joseph cared for her and she just radiated love. I’ve got to come at it from another angle where I don’t depend on him for warmth. I am his warmth. I’ve got it backward now but taking baby steps!

  29.  #29Jason Miller on September 30, 2010 at 9:54 pm

    10: Jacqueline

    You were asking about the relationship milestones. I had a therapist tell me that at the 2-3 year mark the facades finally come down and the couple sees each other for who they are.

    I also say there’s a 3-4 month milestone. If someone’s really got massive psychological or relationship issues, you’ll likely see them at that point. But this is from my own experience. I don’t know if others would corroborate that or not.

    And on the topic of narcissism, we’ve all got a little bit of narcissism running. It’s the idea that you have a false image of yourself that you compulsively uphold in the world. If you were always the “responsible” child, for example, you work really hard to defend that perfect image even though you’re not actually perfectly responsible and you really do make mistakes. It’s the people that take it too far that you have to be aware of. It’s a huge topic on its own.

  30.  #30Lorelei on September 30, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    Just sharing: I have my first meet-up date (from online dating) for 16 years at the weekend!!! I like the man’s voice on the phone, and I’m feeling really, really proud of myself that I’m doing lots of feeling messages.

    (Slight re-post from another thread) When confirming details about the date by phone, he asked me if I was FEELING a bit nervous about this!! Is this normal?!?! Me: “Um, yes (truthfully and sounding bashful) I am feeling a bit nervous, but that feels normal! But I’m looking forward to meeting you.” He then took a bit of time to reassure me, which feels very unusual and different!

    I’m emerging from a 15-year marriage to a man who made me feel less-than, not-good-enough, all-wrong, stupid, judged, bad-for-having-feelings (and I’m feeling so relieved, not so much angry/grieving, now, to be divorcing him). But this date’s reassurance had the effect of me being able to stop wondering what he will think about me, and to really focus on myself and stuff like: I can be a Siren here, the feeling messages are going down well – he caught it.

    It’s really boosted my confidence. Before (and during) my marriage I would have focussed on the man. But I’m doing the Paint on Love tool whenever I can, and starting to believe that it’s OK to focus on me, love myself even on a date, and trust that men love it when we are loving ourselves. And it feels good. And makes it more possible for me to do this with less receptive men. Whatever happens on the date, this feels good anyway. I’m feeling very curious.

  31.  #31Daisy on October 1, 2010 at 1:17 am

    Ladies, one my CDs , the one from the other nite who I was not really attracted to, but then I kept opening up and then did get turned on by him the other nite… When we were making out… Which is great…

    Well initially he seemed to talk abt bein in a relationship.. Then I told him it didn’t feel that way to me, and that to me it’s dating, which he called courtship

    Well he wants to see me tomorrow, he calls me all the time…

    And I feel Scared: he left a message saying hey This is your baby Xman, at least I hope I’m your only baby..,

    Something to that effect… So it seems like hd doesn’t really think I’m dating or at least hopes not…

    Help! I feel mistrustful – I think he will leave me if he finds out I don’t want to be exclusive – Security man did, and kinda “turned on me” with mean words.

    I feel sad… I kinda got this guy pegged as a lil insecure, wants to be in a relationship right now guy…

    I feel scared! I don’t want to feel abandoned…

    I’m afraid I’m gona keep getting closer to him, and now he turned me on and I’m starting to feel attracted to him, which I did not think was gonna happen… And that good…

    But I still feel afraid…



    I don’t want a man that leaves me because I won’t commit exclusively before having the commitment I want. And I live myself and my fears… And I’m willing yo open up with this man and be vulnerable .,, and be ok even if he walks away because he wants a boyfriend gf situation that I don’t want.

    I’m wondering if I would feel better bringing it up to talk abt it now… Or waiting till he brings it up more formally… I can feel the pressure behind the scenes tho, same how I did with Security.

    Most men I wind up talking about this in our first convo, so they know how I feel about it… But with him it hasn’t come up yet… And I feel a lil anxious and uneasy when he makes references to girlfriend, or hoping he’s my only baby… Tho it’s cool for him to hope that, I feel a lil pressured tho.

    I feel unsafe untrusting… I feel afraid, a lil sad, I don’t want to be “left”. I don’t want a man who’s not willing to compete and pursue me until he can offer me what I want.

    And I feel scared of feeling abandoned. I lovey fear. I feel sad. I lovey sadness.

    This is good. Feeling my feelings is good. Leaning back, and sinking into them, is good. It’s greAt that I feel sad, this means this sadness is being healed. Thank you .

  32.  #32Ella on October 1, 2010 at 6:25 am


    This is a great blog post for me as I have been all about trying to move past my last relationship for the past few months. I can report that finally I think I am getting there. I am feeling better and happier everyday and can feel healing taking place.

    I wanted to post today because I have a date tonight and this is going to be a really interesting one for me, because this guy triggers me hugely.

    I have been circular dating for about 2 months and am getting used to viewing dates as ‘practice’ and therapy. However I was still getting demotivated. I just wasn’t getting ‘that’ feeling with any of them, so I was just making myself go along as part of the process.

    Well the other night at my local pub I bumped into a guy who I have known for a few years through friends. He used to be a real jerk and quite arrogant. So I was quite wary of him when he started talking to me. Well anyway it turns out he has been through a bit of a transformation. He realised how he was behaving and has changed, including drinking less and stopping other behaviours.

    He was very different. He was quite sweet and interesting. And motivated to do well. He said it was hard to change when people all held an opinion of him from before. Well I just listened to him and then expressed how I felt and it completely floored him. His reaction to the way I was being was truly amazing, something I have not experienced before.

    He kinda looked at me with something between curiousity and awe on his face and then he went really quitet and carried on looking at me. I asked him what? and he said, no one has ever listened to me like that. And it kinda caused a stir in him. He spent the rest of the eveing close to me and asked me out for dinner.

    How I feel is that I am very attracted to him and intereseted. He is not my usual type AT ALL, he is much shorter than me and I usually go for taller guys for one thing.

    So I am going to go along and I want to be very aware of the interactions and how I feel around him. I am not sure if I am attracted because he still has some of that ‘bad boy’ thing going on, and if so I am going to watch that.

    Also, this guy triggers me. He triggers me to be in my man energy sometimes because I am so attracted to him. And he triggers me to overfunction. So regardless of what this turns out to be this date is going to be GREAT practice for me. I am going to get to practice being the woman, feeling, relaxing, receiving, and dealing wih my urges to be any other way.

    I feel fascinated to see how this turns out, and if it leads nowhere else I will get to practice dignity as I know I will see this guy around again (we share the same group of friends).

    So I feel quite positive and hope this will be an opportunity to grow… and also to enjoy myself!

    Oh… and if we do continue dating, he will be my number 3 in my circular dating! Wooohoo…

    So I am off to get my girly hat on! 🙂 xx

  33.  #33Turtle Girl on October 1, 2010 at 8:26 am

    It has been my personal experience that when I am with a man who does not care for me, it is because I do not care for myself. It is not a love. It is an addiction of a sort. If you are sleeping with him, you are bonded to him regardless of his treatment of you.
    He sounds very abusive, he is using you for a booty call and you mean nothing to him. Judging from what you said he really doe snot care about you. He might be this way with any women, men like that usually are.

    By staying with him you are beating yourself up and maybe there is some lesson you have to learn. No one deserves this kind of treatment. So-why are you there? What is it that makes you want to stay-you want him to change? He won’t. I was with a man like this for a few months once. I got out. I thought I could not but I did. I finally got so miserable I left.

    I realized that my unhappiness and misery was my true self crying out for change. My true self crying out to me that this is all wrong and I needed to do something else. Once I left, although it was really hard I realized with greater clarity that I was the one with the problem. He may have been an as to be sure, but strong, healthy women with high self esteem do not hang out with men like that.

    Take care and what does your inner voice say? What is it trying to tell you? Be blessed. xxxoooo

  34.  #34Tina on October 1, 2010 at 8:46 am


    I love your tapes, and sometimes they hit home more often than I care to admit. My situation, I’m separated. We’ve been together for 11 1/2 years and married almost 5. Last November I got the “talk”, ‘I just don’t feel that way for you anymore like I should.’ I’ve tried some of your techniques some have worked, then I think I fall back in that trap again. Just when I think I’m coping with everything OK – I get that low, lonely feeling again. Lonely sucks – no matter how you try to wrap it – it sucks! I want to save my marriage, I want our marriage to be better than it was. I’m just stuck. I have several of your cds – I want to get more – I just don’t have the means to right now. I need some advice on what to do. I’m standing on that bridge watching him leap off and doing his own thing, and it hurts and I’m scared. How do I keep my mind from running back to him? I know that I deserved to be loved for who I am, and before all of this happened, I thought everything was great – it hit me like a ton of bricks. In my heart – he’s the one. I’m hurt, scared, lonely, and depressed. I don’t want to feel this way anymore.

  35.  #35Meemee on October 1, 2010 at 9:50 am

    Dear Turtlegirl,
    I cant tell you how grateful I am for your comment. I feel attached to this man because he is the first one I got physically involved with. And I have emotinally invested in this relationship. I call it a relationship. He does not. He says this is a “secret vice” and I am an uneasy lover. And he says, the moment I let anyone know about our relationship, he is gone.
    Whenever I heard this from his black and white, i tried to get away from this. I stopped talking to him, stopped calling him and texting him. It didnt matter to him, I think, because he never called me or texted me. But since both of us are taking our doctorates from the same institution, I see him everyday. He came to my room and talked to me as if nothing happened, as if he does not recognize that I have not been calling him or texting him for days or weeks. He came to my room and talked so normal and made all comments about how sad I look and I should try to be happy etc etc. I lose control and we get into yet another unpleasant conversation and I am back to square one.
    You asked me what does my inner voice say- I have not been listening to my inner voice for 2 YEARS. Instead I have been listening to him- I have been trying to change myself so that he will be happy with me. But now it has reached a point where I can not take this neglect, lack of affection and attention anymore. I dont think I am being treated with respect. I feel he has been doing everything for his immediate gratification. But that is not his mistake either. He told what he has to. It was me who decided to tolerate this bad treatment. In a way, it was my choice.
    My inner voice says I should get out of this soon. The faster I do it, less painful it will be. This is not what I want in life. I deserve something better. I deserve to be treated with love and respect.
    But I dont know how to do that. I see him everyday, we work for the same project, we sit next in rooms to each other, all his friends are my friends too, I hear people talking about him. He is everywhere.

  36.  #36Renee on October 1, 2010 at 9:50 am

    I am feeling a knot in the pit of my stomach because I don’t want to go out with the dr tonight. We’ve been txting this morning and I’m sure he’s fine, but I just don’t feel like going on a date w/anyone other than Blondie.

    My guy friend (former boyfriend) says he feels strongly that Blondie is reacting to my initial ambivalence about dating other people and that he just needs more “adoring”, for lack of a better word. The fact that he’s asked me questions like “do you kiss other men the way you kiss me?” is triggering him to think that Blondie just needs more assurance of how wonderful I think he is…of course, Chad, (former bf) is probably also reacting to the fact that I was very ambivalent with my feelings about him when I dated him (I just wasn’t attracted to him and he also wasn’t very good in bed, so I never felt that “adoring” feeling towards him), whereas I do feel that way w/Blondie.

    Chad also says I’m still being too guarded with my emotions just in the way I was talking about my feelings about Blondie. He insists that I need to be even more gushy about my feelings w/Blondie. After his mini-meltdown this week, though, it seems the prudent thing to do to pull back. Chad says Blondie’s just testing me with the insisting that I take the date w/the dr tonight. He would prefer that I cancel the date (since I reeeaaaally don’t want to go) and just tell Blondie that this is what Blondie really wants to “prove” to him that I’m really into him. It’s all so confusing!

    I get that Rori says becoming exclusive is a trap, but I don’t think I feel that way. There’s a small part of me that says that it would be nice to have the “option” of going out with someone else if I met someone who really knocked my socks off, but it feels like I’ve dated around enough the past few years (the past year in particular) to know when I’ve come across someone special and if he’s feeling insecure about my feelings for him, being honest about my desire to not see other people seems like a smart thing to do…

  37.  #37Renee on October 1, 2010 at 10:01 am

    Memee — You soooo deserve better than the crumbs this guy is giving you! I know it won’t be easy to heal with this guy in your face all the time, but that’s part of what your dates with other men will help you with — healing your damaged self-esteem from this imaginary relationship.

    You can and NEED to do this, Memee. Please keep us posted on how it’s going.

  38.  #38Brenda on October 1, 2010 at 10:11 am


    RE: #14 – That is beautiful and powerful! I have had a similar experience. There are times when it’s appropriate to PUT ON the rose colored glasses…not take them off!

  39.  #39Meemee on October 1, 2010 at 10:31 am

    Renee, thanks. I am feeling encouraged. But I feel scared too thinking about what will happen if all this determination and making up of mind crumble down next week when I see him.
    I feel scared.

  40.  #40Turtle Girl on October 1, 2010 at 10:46 am

    Seeing him all the time does makes things like this harder. But if you resolve to put down firm boundaries you can and will rid yourself of this “relationship”.

    If you can do it in small increment, then little by little you can do it all the time. For just ten minutes do not talk to him, then twenty, then thirty, you get the idea.
    You don’t even have to tell him what you are doing. Just decide your “vibe” will be away from him and to yourself! He will pick up on it, maybe even try and control you-he ALREADY does control you-because you are letting him treat you this way. You have the power within yourself to do this-I know because I have been there and got out from under the clutches of my abuser. While attached to him you can not think straight-it is like a drug and the habit has to be kicked. Withdraw your vibe-eventually he will go away-he will get bored and realize he holds no more power and he will move on to his next victim…xxoo

  41.  #41Rori Raye on October 1, 2010 at 11:13 am

    Tina, Welcome – and my answer for you was so long, I’m going to post this…I’ll change your name to Teresa, and you can get help from everyone who comments…Love, Rori

  42.  #42Mai on October 1, 2010 at 11:31 am


    my heart goes out to you honey.. you must get out of this relationship.. you must be honest to yourself. stay true to your inner voice.

    go out and start doing different things.. make new friends!

    start belly dancing, pilates classes, yoga, ANYTHING! even take up a part time job in a cafe/shop/clothes store etc…’ll meet good people along the way and make long lasting friendship. you don’t need this man.. he is useless to must love every part of yourself , all the good bits and the not-so-good-bits!

    seriously, buy some new clothes, get your hair done, dye your hair a shade darker or lighter/or get some highlights..:) you can even do it at home with your girlfriends! accentuate your beautiful eyes with some mascara, eyeshadow and liner, wear some blusher, a beautiful dress and feel your beauty , you are radiant! i know you are! wear a gorgeous pair of earrings..anything really, you’l feel lovely in no time..!

    take time-out for awhile..who said you have to chill out with his your own thing for awhile.. i’ll be watching this post , so if you need to talk i promise i am here honey pie 🙂 xx

    p.s if you do all this, i know you will be able to hold your head up high, your back straight, your chest puffed out,with a beautiful smile on your face for the world, you know ready to be all woman and beautiful to the world, to face the good, the bad and the ugly.. you are beautiful lady..mmmwah! xx

  43.  #43Amy F. on October 1, 2010 at 11:32 am

    I understand feeling scared. This man does not care for you, and probably not much for himself either. How could you treat another human being in such a rude and uncaring way?

    I have vrey high self esteem and I know when I have let someone into my life who is not giving me time and attention, its because I’m using the little light I receive even from a toxic man, to mask my unhappiness about other things in my life. Otherwise, why would I let a man in with whom I feel bad into my life? A man who calls me and says consistently “I only have a few minutes”, who makes no time for me at all, who has not called me in a month and the list goes on. Why would I still be wanting him, thinking about him, ripped up by him? The reason is because I am stressed and feel badly about things that are really important to me, and as a result although I have high self esteem, I am going through the hardest time in my life. Just one disaster after another. As I take baby steps toward my own light and building a new life, his little pinhole of light will make me laugh. Maybe some of this applies to you as well.

    It sounds like Rori’s “Toxic Man” program would be perfect for you as well as the “Reconnect Your Heart” program I have not yet done these programs, but I will soon.

  44.  #44Nikita on October 1, 2010 at 11:43 am

    Are you implying you have never been physical with a man before this?, ever? I feel confused. I feel angry too. A woman that has to be kept a secret? To me, I feel wary of that…..that’s a classic isolation tactic… removes you from friends and family……and basically cuts you off at the legs….leaves you with no foundation……I mean, isn’t that what molesters do to children? Scare them into keeping things/the seduction a secret?
    What if a pregnancy resulted from the secret? Then that’s a secret too?
    All the power is in the secret… soon as the light shines on the darkness….everything is illuminated…..if it was me I’d pull the rug out from under his a$$, feel my anger… my anger…draw a line in the sand……and tell…. But I have never worked on a project in the midst of getting my doctorate……so it is easy from where I’m sitting…..
    But……I have kept men a secret……and insist they not tell anyone…….the secret is what gave me all of my maneuvering power …… It allowed me to behave as if I was single when really I was very much involved…… It allowed me to appear available and keep my options open…… It also protected me from attack by the people in our immediate circle…… I feel very sad to see a woman being kept a secret. By keeping the secret you are complying to the requirements for “keeping him”…… complying it speaks volumes about your desire to “keep him”……or hope to. I don’t like it. I wonder if the “friend” that was inquiring is sleeping with him too…….something is off here……I’d feel very interested in seeing this “mystery” revealed. This sounds like a power play men read about……in those power books….or “the prince”….. I do not like it……and feel very concerned.

  45.  #45Turtle Girl on October 1, 2010 at 11:46 am

    Great post. Right on. Good insight to this situation. Have not read the Prince-but keep meaning to.
    Thanks for the reminder. xxoo

  46.  #46Jacqueline on October 1, 2010 at 11:47 am

    Yall…memee’s posting on the page with my story on it – will someone jump over there and tell here where all this is – I told her to go to newest page, but she might not know?

    Thank you all for being such sirens, and caring!!!


  47.  #47Meemee on October 1, 2010 at 11:49 am

    It was so so so sweet of you to reply me in such a compassionate way. For the last two years I have been staying away from all my friends for fear of telling them what is happening in my life. Your post brought a new light into my head. Thanks.
    It is midnight here now. Yeah, tomorrow I will go out and do something to my long messy hair. I always loved short hair, but this man told me I should not get a hair cut since he loves women with long hair (OMG, how stupid do I sound!!!!).
    Also I am going to attend a reading group tomorrow where I will meet new people. And I will be presenting my research findings to a small group. I feel both excited and nervous about it.
    Thanks for being there for me.

  48.  #48Nikita on October 1, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    I haven’t read the prince but I’ve been told my views are Machiavellian ……I was involved in an office romance and that requires a lot of secrecy…….that was managed by me.
    I believe in the double standard…..a man can be kept a secret……it’s cute……but a woman, never……I personally find it degrading ……and feel furious about ever being asked…..”to keep this between us”……nope… thanks…….if you are in a relationship where you have to be kept a secret….Maybe it’s not a good time to be in a relationship.

  49.  #49Meemee on October 1, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Your comment is making me rewind all the episodes I had with him and rethink what his words and acts really meant. Was there something more to them than what I have seen and felt.
    This man is the first man I physically got involved with. I had only one boyfriend before I got involved with this man, and had spent one night with him. But that relationship didnt work out. I started sleeping with this guy 2 and a half years ago, that was when I was 25.
    I always wondered why he wants to keep it a secret. He has got lots of girls as his friends. He comes to office in a car with two of them. One of them is in her 40s and is married and she has a peculiar power over him which made me feel agitated many a time. She is the one who keeps askong me if there is anything happening between the two of us. So many times I asked him to spend time with me and he would simply say that he is at her place and with her family and she will ask him where he has been, she will get curious if he spends time with me.
    I remember one day he hugged me in his room and she barged in. He made such a fuss and literally drove me away from the room and I was forced to go to her and explain that he hugging me was nothing but an act of consoling me because I was having a bad time and blah blah.
    Also I am a Christian and he is a Hindu and belonging to two religions, he always pointed out as a problem. At least in India, that is a problem.
    His other friend- she got divorced last month. She also is curious about us and keeps asking me if there is anything that is bothering me relationshipwise.
    But it is brutally true that I was kept as a secret. He didnt tell any of his friends and he does not let me talk to any of my friends either.
    I always told him that I will stop seeing him if he is sleeping with other women. He always answered no. But now I doubt- may be he was lying. But I trusted him. He lives far away, he has friends who will check his cell phone, he has parents compelling for marriage, he is always with either his friends or his family, he is busy with his work and research. I always made excuses to for him- but the truth is that I distanced myself from my friends. I could never be honest to them becasue I was hiding this important thing about my relationship.
    I made myself friendless.

  50.  #50Meemee on October 1, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    You are all wonderful women. You are making me think and analyse. You are right in one sense. I am going through a very bad phase of my life (excluding him). I feel I am generally stuck in my life, doing a job I have no intentions of doing, struggling financially as a student, worrying about future, fighting with bad bosses etc. But do you really think one can use a toxic man to hide the other unhappy aspects of one’s life?
    Is it really possible?

  51.  #51Renee on October 1, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Memee — I don’t really have anything important to add, I just wanted to let you know that I feel for you and your heartache right now, but I think you know what you need to do.

    Some of the other are right — babystepping your way to separation is the best way to do it. Just celebrate your small victories (like I made it 3 days without calling/txting him) and treat yourself to something everytime you accomplish a new one. And maybe take solice in the fact that you’re young and it’s good that you found Rori now while so much of your romantic future is still ahead of you. I made so many mistakes in my 20’s (though interestingly enough, I always had a boyfriend back then) as did most of us who are a little older now, so I hope you know that you’re not alone in having allowed a bad situation to continue.

    But now you know better and you can do this…you have the support you need here to help you:-).

  52.  #52Meemee on October 1, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    Renee and Knocksoftly,
    Thanks Thanks Thanks.
    Thanks to all you wonderful beautiful women who helped me with comments and suggestions. This is my first day here. I am overwhelmed by the support and care I received from here.
    It is 2 am here. I should get some sleep and prepare for a presentation I have to make.
    I will write my list and post it here.
    Hugs to all of you.

  53.  #53life_is_too_short_to... on October 1, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    32 WOW, Ella, way to prepare!!

    Keep us posted!!

  54.  #54Lola on October 1, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    Amy F

    I am really enjoying your posts and they are making me think.
    I have been addicted to man crack for the last 5 years since my husband and I split up.

    The man I have been with for last 2 1/2 years just left me and I am sitting here wondering, and this is open to all to answer, if I find myself a lovely man (and in my heart I know I will) without the extreme highs and lows, will I miss them? will I find the evenness and consistency boring and miss the edginess? I hope not.

    Renee I like the idea of celebrating the small victories I have made 2 days without calling or texting, which I would normally not be able to stop myself from doing, I will buy myself a present tomorrow ; )

  55.  #55BarbinOz on October 1, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    Dear Memee

    It feels so good to hear all the support you are getting from the lovely Siren island, just come back and post here any time, we have all posted when feeling bad or sad and the support is amazing.

    You are only young and have all the time in the world to have a new and fresh exciting life… get married to a wonderful man and have children one day if that’s what you want.

    Just a thought I had when I saw this man was Hindu, I know in England where I am from that families are getting more accepting of non Hindu’s marrying into the family, is that maybe why this man wants to keep you a secret, because you are a Christian? I am thinking things are much more traditional in India?

    Anyway whatever the reason is, you should be with a man who is proud to have you on his arm and treats you with love and respect.

    Hoping you have had your hair cut today, changed the colour if you feel like, put on some makeup and nice clothes and some sparkly ear-rings and get out there and knock ’em dead!! 😀

    Take care x

  56.  #56Brenda on October 1, 2010 at 2:02 pm


    Welcome! I read your two posts. I feel sad you were overlooked. When someone new joins, your first comment goes into moderation, and Rori welcomes new people.

    I would feel really hurt too if a man I was attracted to treated me so nonchalantly. I noticed YOU invited HIM a couple of times. Rori says a man CAN’T fall in love with a woman when she is operating out of masculine energy…

    Let him take the oars and row. Just lean back and receive, like a waterwheel. We are here to support you, and these women are like sisters.

    Best wishes,

  57.  #57Renee on October 1, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    Lola — 2 days without calling/txting is definitely reason to celebrate when you’re just splitting up! Hope you find yourself something wonderful tomorrow! You deserve it!

  58.  #58BarbinOz on October 1, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    #36 Renee

    Well it is early morning in Australia which means you must be out with the Dr now, hoping it all went well.

    I am not sure about the information given you be ex boyfriend, maybe he is just mirroring what he wanted from you and didn’t get i.e. adoration…

    In the last paragraph you say an interesting thing:

    “There’s a small part of me that says that it would be nice to have the “option” of going out with someone else if I met someone who really knocked my socks off,”

    Does this mean that Blondie hasn’t REALLY knocked your socks off?

  59.  #59Renee on October 1, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    Well, I hesitate to post this because I know I’m going to catch flack about it, but I cancelled my date with the dr tonight…I had a knot in the pit of my stomach and I just was not looking forward to it. I don’t know if I’m planning to actually become exclusive w/Blondie or not, but I just know that the prospect of going out to dinner w/this guy tonight did not feel good and I wanted to honor my feelings by not forcing myself to go.

    I’m going to see how Blondie reacts when I tell him and also see how things go with my family tomorrow and probably kind of make my decision from there. I may just chalk it up to the dr not being the right guy for me and try to remain open to other men, but it just feels like, unless someone really knocks my socks off, I’m not particularly interested in seeing someone else right now, but that’s because of what I want, not because I’m thinking about what Blondie wants…I mean, I hope he has a positive reaction and all, but if he doesn’t, that will kind of tell me what I really need to know, you know?

  60.  #60Renee on October 1, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    Barb — Blondie definitely has shortcomings, and I’d be lying if I said he makes as much money as I’d like or that I’m thrilled that he has 2 young children…those 2 things are not what I would prefer, but I love the way I feel when I’m with him.

    I also like the way he encourages me, through his own zest for life, to become more engaged in the world around me. I can become blase about the little things and he appreciates them so much, that it’s adorable when he points out the moon or a sunset or a smell that’s in the air…I like the me I am when I’m around him, if that makes sense.

  61.  #61BarbinOz on October 1, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    #54 and #55 re Toxic men

    My ex-husband is/was a Toxic man and I know that for whatever reason I was addicted to the DRAMA that comes with that……it’s kind of like a roller coaster ride, all the ups and downs and highs and lows, I hadn’t ever known until the past few years what peace and quiet and solitude really was. I might get lonely at times but I really could not go back to that way of living EVER again!!

  62.  #62tinque on October 1, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    Not from me you won’t Renee. In my opinion, if it feels wrong, then it is, for YOU.

  63.  #63BarbinOz on October 1, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    Renee, you have to do what feels right for you and if going out with the doc didn’t feel right then so be it……

    I have been waiting in vain for the man to come along who would blow my socks off, but it’s been such a long wait that’s why I am now on the online dating sites……..I actually had something along those lines on my last profile before my Lizzie revamp (where is Lizzie these past few days??)

    “I’m strictly a one man woman looking for honesty, truth, respect, fidelity and above all else mind blowing my socks off love and passion with my soul mate LOL!! ”

    Not too much to ask for is it? 😀

  64.  #64Janice on October 1, 2010 at 2:41 pm


    I just got out of a toxic relationship of 2 years. We are in our 40s. I was pretty happy in my life before I met him but I had no friends in that city and was completely alone. So things went great for awhiel and we went through alot of upsets- hes an alcoholic and i was out of work for 1.5 years out of the 2- he worked and i was alone all day. We had no stimulation and it turned to deep depression for us both. Finally he was just not cairng and showing disregard for me …..he started to get verbally abusive and physical too- so I told him id leave (he was happy that i was although he said he did love me) I got to my city 700 miles away and he called every day for 5 weeks then broke up in a text and changed his number. I found that so hurtful. We hadmoved 6 times when we were together pl us he was in rehab 2 times. His mom almost died and then his dad took sick! (that was day 10 into the relationship)…now he has my winter stuff and has his cell changed and his dad said hell call me re my stuff but he hasnt and its been 2 weeks tonight ! I never thought things would have turned this way as we rarely had fights, we got on very very well, were very intimate and connected its just we had high high stress……I dont wish him any harm, i want him to be cured and happy but i wish he would call – i do miss him alot- just would be nice to stay friends….as he does not have any firends….so he must be missing me too…..

  65.  #65Senior Lady Vibe on October 1, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    6: Brenda says:
    Senior Lady Vibe,

    “This IS the question post! This thread, with the heading, “New Questions Post – Ask Them Here”, is primarily for asking Rori questions…”

    Ohhh, I just saw that, duh, right at the top “NEW QUESTIONS POSTS”… LOL

    I was waiting for long download on another side… and suddenly it dawned on me.

    I came back because of the “cliff hanger” in the story–Brenda, did you write “the letter” to the celebrity musician way back in 1995? What happened?


  66.  #66Renee on October 1, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Thank you, Tinque. I adore your calm encouraging voice on the blog and have been reading your blog too.

    I’ve been thinking of buying your ebook to learn more about vaginal/cervical orgasms and I went to the site you recommended for the jade eggs — I think that would probably help me a lot too.

    Does your book get very involved in how to achieve a vaginal orgasm? I read where you discussed it some on your blog and you really emphasized relaxing and just feeling the sensations…I’ve been trying that, but perhaps things are still to new with Blondie to relax as much as I need to.

    Have you had much luck with your research into that other topic you were researching? I’m not personally interested in attaining ejaculation, but I just thought it was an interesting topic…

  67.  #67tinque on October 1, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    Renee – yes I do get into great detail in my book, and you are always welcome to e-mail anytime for questions and/or further elaboration.
    Yes FE is a fascinating topic, and I too never thought I was all that interested until I discovered that it gives you an even deeper, or maybe more profound is a better word, sense or release and almost indescribable feelings of MORE.
    I’m always looking for more ways to expand my experience, for I believe a woman’s potential for sexual sensation is limitless.
    I’ve tried out the suggested techniques three times now, and so far I feel a very different approach and ultimate surrender into sensation.

  68.  #68Amy F. on October 1, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    I do believe we can use men for a temporary fix, because I am doing it. You and I have a similar educational background, you are a great catch and so am I. About a year ago, I decided I have invested so much in my mind and nothing in my body. I lost about 40 pounds and really look better now than at any other time in my life. When other things in my life started to go haywire, the easiest path to feeling good, if only for a little while was the attention from a man. I remember someone saying that toxic men shimmer like gold because there is something about them we are usually attracted to (something that most likely will not be in our long term best interest). Have you seen the movie Twilight or read the book? Those vampires have something that humans are attracted to, and draws us in so they can catch us and feed on us. I believe this is what a toxic man feels like.

    This intoxicating feeling is so strong and it feels like love and it is not- it’s only a band aid holding you together for a few hours. After the sex or the phone call, or text it feels so bad. It never feels secure, there is always worry. I know this so well, because I have been there.

    When I started reading this blog and ordering these programs, I thought “I don’t need this heart connection stuff because I think I am great. There is nobody I love more than me.” However, I have just realized, I may feel great about me, but I don’t feel great about some things in my life. Fixing the problems is what I must focus on. It sounds like you might attack some of the things you don’t feel great about as well. I have been a struggling Ph.D. student – I get it. Try to think outside of the box about a solution and ask for help if you can. I promise, you will be laughing at your attraction to this guy when you are stronger. I won’t even tell you how aghast I am that I allowed a fantasy relationship with the guy who recently broke my heart. If I listed his characteristics and you saw who I am, you would not believe I would even give him the time of day. I feel who we choose to let into our lives is a physical manifestation of how we think about ourselves and believe me, I must be feeling pretty bad to let this broken down man into my soul!
    Meemee, keep writing. We are all here. By writing to you, I understand me better. It’s a win-win!

  69.  #69tinque on October 1, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    Sorry it posted before I was finished. And I did have some of what I call “dribbling”.
    It all feels MORE, but I do think I need more practice, and it’s better to tale your time and have a nice long “warm up”.
    And thank you for your sweet words, Renee.

  70.  #70Nikita on October 1, 2010 at 3:00 pm


    So, what I am hearing is that this man is your 2nd physically but 1st emotionally? Either way I can better understand how vulnerable you might feel…..and how your heart might feeling super overwhelmed under those circumastances.
    I must say I love long hair too 🙂 I regret cutting mine….but….if you are sure about that I support you…..but don’t do it out of spite! Do it because you always wanted to…..I felt a little traumatized all 4 times I chopped my hair off…..and now it’s finally long again and I wish I never cut it.

    In any case……it feels so good to come clean to our friends….after holding a major part of ourselves hidden for a long time… is transformational…..maybe you can baby step your way out….start with your closest friend and let her know that in order to feel safe you need her to keep your confidence until you get your footing again…..I found my friendships became stronger….and I felt better…..

    Perfect love casteth out fear 🙂
    Love yourself completely and compassionately and I have full faith this will dissolve and clear the path to a much wiser self possessed you.


  71.  #71Daria on October 1, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    Ella – THATS AWESOME!!! i feel so excited for you! tell more about your date and how it felt to use the tools

  72.  #72Renee on October 1, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    Tinque — I just purchased your ebook, but I don’t know how to access it now. Could you let me know?


  73.  #73tinque on October 1, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    Oh dear. Paypal keeps messing with me. Please e-mail me, and I will send it to you directly. I was told there is a redirect button somewhere after having made payment. But just go ahead and e-mail me. It will be faster and easier.

  74.  #74Nikita on October 1, 2010 at 3:19 pm


    I have not read the entire thread but in regards to :

    ” I am sitting here wondering, and this is open to all to answer, if I find myself a lovely man (and in my heart I know I will) without the extreme highs and lows, will I miss them? will I find the evenness and consistency boring and miss the edginess”

    This where sharing your feelings becomes the thrill. It feels thrilling to just hold on to our selves in the midst of a storm, misunderstanding, or heated conversation and lean back completely …..and just say …, “I feel sad”….and wait for the man to respond…..the intimacy I feel with myself in the presence of men feels edgy… relationship isn’t very dramatic……at all…..but feeling curious about what comes next is exciting for me. It’s kind of like having sex….but not making any noise….because your parents are in the next room- what I mean is …silent sex is challenging for me 😉
    Yelling and carrying on and holding onto the headboard is very dramatic -but having to be very quiet because you’re making out in a place where you might be caught has it’s own thrill….a quiet inner drama… opposed to a noisy crazy show ……. If that makes any sense…?

  75.  #75Lizzie on October 1, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    Hi everyone I am here!
    Ok some people wanted help with on-line profiles – this is it – I am here.

  76.  #76Amy F. on October 1, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    I have very limited luck with my online profile. I’m a good writer, I am attractive so I am baffled. I am seeking 41-55 age range. Can you give us some pointers – Do’s and Don’ts?
    Thank you so much!

  77.  #77Lizzie on October 1, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    Hi Amy – are you on POF? can you give me your name so I can check you out?
    do you have the questions I posted a few days ago?

  78.  #78Daria on October 1, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    whoa… i was just online and i got hit on by a guy … who got enthralled by my Goddess skills…

    “you’re different than other women, you are so calm and deep and …”

    and he was talking about spoiling me..

    and it turned out he was married

    (he had no profile and i asked about that)

    — i dont usually get hit on by married guys —

    anyway for some reason i got fixated on him buying me some herbs… that i want from mountainroseherbs

    and i would talk to him online but i dont date married men


    well i started feeling weird unworthy and insecure

    like i was like obsessed with GEtting this from him

    and i kept sitting with my feelings…

    and i started crying

    i felt so innefective – this is why Knocksoftly, if you were reading this, i really Am feeling fascinated and want to learn to do the intimidating stripper thing —

    anyway i felt so unworthy compared to a couple of my girlfriends who had men buy them stuff often

    well i started CRYING as i was being wiht my feelings… AND being honest with him about how i was feeling like obsessed with this and stuff

    and then i FREAKIN got a revelation, that I would REALLY BENEFIT from a Sales Training course!

    in my business – because i struggled with this !

    and I feel so happy now! i got the GEM out of the icky feeling!

    super happy and am looking into Sales Training courses in my area now

    i am going to find some free ones (already found one) and

    ask my dad if he will invest in my taking a paid one as well


  79.  #79Amy F. on October 1, 2010 at 6:13 pm


    I am not on POF, I’m on Match. I did not see the questions. Are they under the previous Rori posting? I’m going to look now.

    Thank you so much!

  80.  #80Mai on October 1, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    ladies, recently i have been taking chlorella tablets… its got protein, amino acids, omegas etc..its an algae that grows at the bottom of the ocean and it feels soooo good… i feel and look good after only a few days… i just wanted to share that with you…x

  81.  #81Lizzie on October 1, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    Rats – I can’t find any of the questions I posted for you Amy. So here they are again:

    – what is it about you that your friends totally adore?
    – what are some of the interesting and unusual things you do?
    – what is really important to you?

    make lists of adjectives for me

  82.  #82Lizzie on October 1, 2010 at 6:26 pm

    Amy – I don’t think I can get into Match to see your profile. Can you just copy and paste here?

    BTW – what I did for Barb seems to have generated activity. I took a completely different approach for myself on POF and it has proved to be a dud. So totally different doesn’t seem to work.

  83.  #83Mai on October 1, 2010 at 6:32 pm


    i think you should wavy perm your long hair…it will make your hair volumed, bouncy and soooo sexy, get some soft layers in it too, dye it one shade lighter… wow you will hot.. i dont even know what you’l look like, but women look sooooo feminine and sexy with long sexy locks!

    use some kohl and mascara on your eyes, and a subtle pinkish blush … hehe..stunning.. 🙂

    and start some belly dancing… get a dvd, get the ‘sadies complete belly dancing’ dvd…. its amazing!

    kisses xx

  84.  #84Nikita on October 1, 2010 at 6:32 pm

    187: Lizzie says:

    OK sirens, I checked my calendar – I will do on-line profiles on Friday night. This is what I need you to do:
    – don’t begin without me! I won’t be able to find your posts if I am not here yet
    – we will begin fresh – that means don’t even look at what you have already
    – take a bit of time before tomorrow night to answer these questions and all I want is a list – not a paragraph
    – why do your friends love and adore you?
    – what do your friends come to you for – like why do they want you on their team?
    – what qualites do you have that would make you so sad your would die if it were taken away from you?
    – what is truly and deeply important to you?
    – what is uniquely special about you?

    I want lists – long lists!


    Wednesday, 29 September 2010 @ 6:30pm

  85.  #85Lizzie on October 1, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    Oh Awesome you found it!
    Great – I am here i fyou wnat to give it a start.

  86.  #86Daria on October 1, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    Knocksoftly – yes, i am very interested in this for business purposes… i want to be able to do it… i think that will really open up for me a confidence…

    it’s not something that i want to use in my relationships… tho to me, i think if i know how to do this.. it will — the make me more whole concept — benefit me in my relationships as well, ill be even More able to go the opposite way and get soft, knowing that i have the skills to get rough, out there…

  87.  #87Amy F. on October 1, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    Hi Lizzie,
    This was very interesting. Thank you for asking these really wonderful questions.

    What do my friends adore about me?
    I seem to inspire my friends regarding their potential. I’ve always been a confidant and the number one cheerleader for my friends no matter what. I am also really funny and a total extrovert. I’m the life of the party (I’ve never met a party I did not like), the person who will dress up in zany costumes, and crack jokes in a board meeting, in a zany costume if necessary.

    What do my friends come to me for?
    My friends come to me for encouragement, for understanding because I often see the beauty and strength they sometimes cannot see in themselves. Many people come to me for career advice and strategy since I can think of out-of the box ways to get to a goal.

    What qualites do you have that would make you so sad your would die if it were taken away from you?
    My sense of humor – I often laugh at myself harder than anybody else. Compassion – I empathize and identify with anyone who has great courage and bravery.

    What is important to you? Love, bravery and strength of heart.

    What is special about you? I am intelligent and kind, I’m a truly poetic soul, I have a happy heart, my enthusiasm is contagious, very stylish and urbane, I love the arts, music, architecture and England!

  88.  #88Nikita on October 1, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    I’m not interested at the moment…..but I feel excited about what may happen for the other sirens

  89.  #89Jacqueline on October 1, 2010 at 8:23 pm

    Hi, Lizzie – just popping in to say this is very nice of you – and yeah, I think the questions are on my story page…

    Daria – one more post to you over there, and I’m saying g’nit…

    hugs, all…

  90.  #90Lizzie on October 1, 2010 at 8:41 pm

    Amy – I want to marry you…
    I have to go to bed because I have to get my daughter to swimming at 5:30 AM so here is my first draft…

    I was born happy and haven’t fallen off the turnip-truck into the abyss of negative self-talk; this is why I live life with contagious enthusiasm!

    People’s stories touch my heart and I greatly appreciate their bravery and courage when facing their challenges. I see beauty and strength in people and am compassionate to those who need a loving hand. I inspire my friends and naturally will be your number one cheerleader.

    About you: You are solid and comfortable with who you are

    What we will do together: I would love to share my life and enjoyment of the arts, music, architecture, great food, fabulous friends and my love of England. Shall we…?

  91.  #91Amy F. on October 1, 2010 at 9:02 pm

    Wow! This is such an improvement. I am amazed, amazed. You are very talented. I love it.

    I’m going to put this up and see what happens. You are just the best. I feel so grateful! Thank you, thank you!

  92.  #92BarbinOz on October 1, 2010 at 11:06 pm

    #94 Lizzie

    A new career is born, profile writer extraordinaire!!! Wonderful Lizzie and good luck Amy F. 😀

    So glad you love my country Amy, because so do I!! Unfortunately my kids and grand-kids live in Australia so this is where I have to live………..for now………….maybe one day I can make it back there, for good this time…..

  93.  #93Nikita on October 2, 2010 at 12:35 am

    According to anthropologist Robin Dunbar, it’s impossible for any of us to have more than 150 friends. The human brain literally can’t process the intimate information required to sustain more than that. But if there were super-freaks who could crack that limit, it would be members of the Gemini tribe, especially during the coming weeks. You now have an uncanny ability to cultivate bubbly connections, be extra close to your buddies, and drum up new alliances.

    You’re got more strength and intelligence than you realize. For help in accessing those untapped inner resources, tune in to your EXPANDED AUDIO HOROSCOPE.

    In certain Native American traditions, the hole was a symbol for the female genitalia, through which souls enter this realm. In American scientific lore, a wormhole is a backdoor shortcut between two places in space separated by an astronomical distance. In my personal mythos, those are my two favorite nuances in the archetype of the hole.

    When I was a kid I loved to fantasize that I’d obtained a magic hole like the one Bugs Bunny had in the comic books. It was a portable hole that Bugs could take with him everywhere and apply to any barrier he needed to slip through. Once he even managed to slap it up against the sky, giving him access to another dimension where the whole world was inside him, not outside. (Or was that a dream I had?)

    What would you do with your portable magic hole?
    The preceding oracle comes from my book, PRONOIA Is the Antidote for Paranoia: How the Whole World Is Conspiring to Shower You with Blessings.

  94.  #94Nikita on October 2, 2010 at 12:36 am

    #97 Gemini horoscope…..but….lol: portable hole 😉

  95.  #95Nikita on October 2, 2010 at 12:40 am

    Leo was fun too….

    “In times of change, learners inherit the Earth,” wrote philosopher Eric Hoffer, “while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists.” Wouldn’t you prefer to put the emphasis on learning rather than on being learned, Leo? This is a good time to get the hang of that; cosmic rhythms will work in your favor if you do. My advice: Take action to intensify your commitment to education. Seek out new teachings. Think hard about the lessons you want to study in the coming years.

    Sometimes it’s a challenge to try to figure out what’s important and what’s not important. If you’d like more of my input, tune in to your EXPANDED AUDIO HOROSCOPE.

    Comment on the following rant, which Beauty and Truth Lab operatives put on flyers and tacked up on laundromat bulletin boards all over San Francisco:

    “The Doctrine of Original Sin? We spit on it. We reject it. We renounce it and forget it and annihilate it from reality. In its place we embrace the Doctrine of Original Fun. This reformulation asserts that it is our birthright to commune with regular doses of curious beauty and tricky truth and insurrectionary love. A robust, heroic joy is even now roaring through us, bringing us good ideas about how to apply the metaphor of ingenious foreplay to everything we do. We will not waste this euphoric deluge on any of the million and one numbing little diversions that pass for pleasure among the ecstasy-starved pursuers of mediocre joy. Rather, we will remain ever alert for the call of primordial delight.”
    The preceding oracle comes from my book, PRONOIA Is the Antidote for Paranoia: How the Whole World Is Conspiring to Shower You with Blessings.

  96.  #96BarbinOz on October 2, 2010 at 1:34 am

    #97 Nikita

    Well this Gemini likes her horoscope 🙂

    “You now have an uncanny ability to cultivate bubbly connections, be extra close to your buddies, and drum up new alliances.”

    Yay for more dates!!!

  97.  #97Lizzie on October 2, 2010 at 6:22 am

    Nikita I am a Scorpio and want a portable hole…LOL!

  98.  #98Ella on October 2, 2010 at 6:36 am

    Thanks! 🙂

    By the way I love your posts they are completely inspiring to me. At first I did not understand what you were doing and then I became more familiar with the tools and ‘riffing’ (is that the right word?) and now I feel energised when I read them and think they are awesome.

    Ok, the date… well… it was AMAZING!
    So firstly he was a few minutes early in the taxi and I was not ready so I had to rush, meaning that when I got in the taxi I was not feeling especially grounded. It turned out we had to drop off a couple of his friends to the pub first. So to start with it was a car full of lads… my first instinct was to talk louder and be one of the lads. Of course this is not what I wanted to do at all, so I stopped, leant back, listened and did nothing. This helped me get into my girl energy.

    When we got to the restaurant I gave myself time to settle while he ordered the drinks and just absorbed the atmosphere. This helped me feel more grounded. He was a real sweety and had made a real effort with the restaurant etc and this made me feel good and all kinda ‘gooey’ inside (warm, fuzzy feeling).

    During dinner we talked a lot. He is a big talker and sometimes forgets to listen. This felt frustrating and my instinct when this happened was to try to butt in and speak louder. I stopped myself and just waited for him to stop talking. When he did I expressed how I felt when he didn’t give me a chance to respond and he heard me and began giving me some space to be a part of the conversation. That felt good.

    I had felt a bit weird before the date because he nearly cancelled and it made me feel anxious that he didn’t really want to meet up with me. I was not sure whether to bring this up at all as it could seem like ‘drama’ however I remembered Rori’s advice and as the feeling was nagging away at me I just expressed how I felt about it without putting any blame on him. At first he wanted to change the subject however I just continued expressing my feelings and then we talked about it and he reassured me. By the end of the date I had no doubts at all.

    Before this conversation he had been not very flirty with me. Afterwards I used the leanback and suddenly he started leaning towards me and pushed his drink into my space on the table. I kept making myself hold his eye contact and this felt TERRIFYING!!! Like I might get absorbed into his eyes and would just disappear altogether, or that he would think I was weird for ‘staring’! I didn’t and he didn’t, lol.

    When he went to the loo I looked at some beautiful flowers to help calm me and imagined energy coming down through my head, through my body and flowing out through my vagina, as Rori advises. It felt weird but good. It definitely helped to ground me. I kept my feet on the floor. I felt good, and I felt excited.

    Afterwards we went to the pub and some of our mutual friends were there. This was fun.

    There are a couple of sticky issues for me because one of his friends likes me and last weekend after I had met my guy (again – I knew him before) and we had kissed, later in the night his friend actually kissed me. I was very unsure how I felt about this and I felt frightened of being labelled a slut! Date guy had expressed that night that he was worried that I would ‘go with’ the other guy. Nothing else happened with the other guy.

    SO back to last night… the other guy came up to me and kissed me on the cheek, and date guy reacted and said something like “why did you kiss him?”. So I stayed calm, reminded myself that I was not doing anything wrong, just kinda smiled sweetly at date guy and said “actally he kissed me!”. Then he asked me whether we had kissed last week after he left! Arghhhh!!! Uncomfortable. But I did not want to lie, I needed to speak the truth so I just said “yes we kissed”. And then he said that he already knew. And that was the end of it! Wow, pre Rori tools that situation would have been filled with drama and guilt for me!

    There is another slightly uncomfortable thing in that before I started talking with date guy another one of his friends kissed me… this was a few months ago. I have just moved back to the area and unfortunately it is a very small town, hence everyone knowing everyone else. Now this other friend turned out to be quite vulgar.

    We were staying over at a mutual friend’s house after a house party and he and I ended up sharing a room. I allowed him to kiss me as initially he seemed quite sweet, however he basically tried to pressure me into sleeping with him. To the point where I actually left and walked home in the middle of the night. Feeling messages were not working with this guy and I did not feel safe. At this point my friend tells me he crawled into her bed and tried to pressure her for sex too! Ewww, creep.

    Actually it turns out this guy is not harmful, just oversexed (and still a bit of a creep in my opinion!)! Sadly this is the kinda ‘small town’ stuff you get around here sometimes. Anyway he is friends with date guy AND he is the type of guy who is likely to have said that he slept with me even though he didn’t.

    So I feel quite uncomfortable about this whole situation with creep guy and I kinda want to bring it up with date guy however I feel anxious and akward and don’t know how to bring it up, not least because he is his friend and date guy obviously thinks creep guy is a decent bloke… Maybe I will start by just saying how I feel in the moment without judging…

    I am pretty sure creep guy has been speaking to date guy ad trying to put him off me, I actually think I saw that happening in the pub this week! But I don’t know for sure. Boy do I feel paranoid about this. And ladies any advice on this situation would be appreciated!

    Well it did not feel right to bring it up last night, it was our night (date guy and me) and I wanted to keep the focus on us for our first date.. so I didn’t however it was in the back of my mind, so I do want to.

    Anyway back to last night we finished up by all going back to a friend’s house and he and I sat up and cuddled. In the end we stayed over and there was lots of kissing, passion etc… however I would not sleep with him. I do not feel ready and he is fine with that.

    Not that I didn’t want to. I have only had sex once since I split with my ex almost 6 months ago and I feel sooooo sexual right now. I really want to make love with someone however I needed to feel safe first and I do not want to rush into it with anyone! I hope that we will sleep together because I think it is going to feel really good. Everything else did and I kept sorting feeling our energies merge if that is possible.

    In the morning and bright daylight I felt shy, still in my clothes from the night before with smeared make up and I felt a little uncomfortable and not attractive anymore. This made me feel a bit panicky and my normal reaction here would have been to start overfunctioning, talking and making jokes. It took everything I had not to do this and to just sit with my feelings.

    I kept reminding myself that I am beautiful and then I let him cuddle me. This is truly breakthough for me… normally I would push someone away when I felt like this. This way is better however this is definitely and area that needs more work for me.

    He then dropped me home and the whole thing felt good (well except for the hang-over! – we had quite a lot of wine).

    The other thing for me now is dealing with my anxious feelings about circular dating when I like this guy so much. I know that I especially need to do it right now to keep the good vibe, rather then attaching, however in honesty I have no interest in the other guys and have to make myself go on dates and be interested… so opposite from date guy! Oh and I feel worried that date guy might think I stay over with all the guys I date… I don’t! Not sure whether I should tell him this or not?

    Anyway I have been open about what I am doing from the start as I find it easier this way and I have told date guy that I do want to be married (in general) one day and until then I am going to continue dating.

    Obviously I think he would prefer I didn’t, don’t they all, but what can he say (well I suppose he could offer to marry me, lol!). So a few times he asked me what I was doing on certain days and when I said I had plans he kinda kept digging to try and find out what I was doing and whether it was a date. Well one of them was so I just went quiet and when he realized he also went very quiet and became kinda thoughtful/slightly withdrawn.

    Again, usually my kew to start picking up the slack, filling the silence and trying to ‘fix’ it. Not this time. I just sat with it and allowed myself to feel akward. After a while he came over and cuddled me again and then the moment passed. I feel so proud of myself!

    Ladies, if you are in any doubt these tools really do work!! USE THEM! Always.

    Now I feel excited, sexual, alive, good…

    and also I feel slightly anxious and actually quite frightened in case he lets me go because of the circular dating. I feel worried about that. But I feel incredibly good about the date itself and so happy that this stuff does actually work and very proud of myself.

    Ok… very long post full of gushing now over! 🙂 xx

  99.  #99Ella on October 2, 2010 at 6:37 am

    Sorry for the essay ladies! I just had a lot to say today… feelings are ‘gushing!’ 🙂

  100.  #100Girl on October 2, 2010 at 8:12 am

    feel good – green
    feel bad – red

    feel good – go
    feel bad – stop

    But what about things that feel good but kick ya in the behind later??

  101.  #101Nikita on October 2, 2010 at 8:38 am

    Lizzie, 😉

    I thought of you too 🙂


    You know me: I hate to sound sensationalistic. But in honor of this dramatic moment in your story, I’ll risk it. So be alert! Heads up! Get real! A pivotal moment is upon you! What you do in the coming days will ultimately determine how you will interpret the entire past year, shaping the contours of your history for better or worse! I advise maximum integrity! I suggest thorough preparation! I urge timely action! Decisions should come from the roots, not the surface! Climaxes should be mediated by the heart and head together, not just one or the other!

    How much do you want to know about your life? How far do you dare to go in your quest for self-mastery? For more insight into your intriguing fate, tune in to your EXPANDED AUDIO HOROSCOPE.

    I love this excerpt from “The Seeker,” a poem by Rilke in his Book of Hours (translated by Robert Bly): “I am circling around God, around the ancient tower, / and I have been circling for a thousand years, / and I still don’t know if I am a falcon, or a storm, / or a great song.” Here’s my own permutation: “I am circling around love, around the throbbing hum, and I have been circling for thousands of days, and I still don’t know if I am a wounded saint, or a rainy dawn, or a creation story.”

    Compose your own version.
    The preceding oracle comes from my book, PRONOIA Is the Antidote for Paranoia: How the Whole World Is Conspiring to Shower You with Blessings.

  102.  #102Lizzie on October 2, 2010 at 9:39 am

    Amy! that is terrific!! I hope it gets you better results and that is all that really counts – keep us all posted.

  103.  #103Lizzie on October 2, 2010 at 10:11 am

    Nikita – I so love it!
    Amazing actually – circling around… it personifies my life in so many ways. I seem to be circling around love and never really connecting with it. I am feeling it is now time to choose – and I shall choose the creation story.

    Now the funny part – I am on a personal journey of study and my most facinating topic: creationist philosophy

  104.  #104Rori Raye on October 2, 2010 at 10:17 am

    Janice. This is about you. About healing your life and GETTING a life. This is about Circular Dating for Free Therapy and healing yourself. Love, Rori

  105.  #105Lizzie on October 2, 2010 at 10:30 am

    Ella – here are a few ideas for creepy guy

    Sweetie I know you are friends with creepy guy and I never wish to interfere with your friendship; I feel so much value in my own friends. I just want you to know, I feel oddly creeped when I am alone with him, so I would just prefer not to be left alone with him, are you ok with that?

    As for self-justification. No need. Men, in my own experience, like to draw their own conclusions about stuff. I don’t seem them highly influenced by what other people say about themselves and their love interests. They also tend to take things more at the presenting face value than delving into the whys and wherefores. Just leave it. As you experienced – when asked a fact-based question: did you kiss X? the answer Yes, is quite sufficient. No need to justify or backtrack. Just stop there. And in my experience, just stopping there is so difficult! I am such an extrovert, I would want to even get into the meta-cognitive processing that lead me to believe it would be a good thing to experience – Oh, c’est fatigant! (wonderful French Canadian expression meaning that is just too over the top)

  106.  #106Ella on October 2, 2010 at 10:44 am

    Lizzie thanks – that is helpful! I think maybe you are right I just need to be calm and let my feelings subside…

    Rori – Do you have any advice for me re: post 103?


  107.  #107Amy F. on October 2, 2010 at 10:55 am

    #110: Lizzie,
    Wise counsel as usual! You are a woman of many talents. We have the same personality!. I will remember this – note to self – just the facts and no back story!

  108.  #108Katarina Phang on October 2, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    Tinque, I certainly wants to learn more about FE. My recent experience with SG opened my eyes that I could be really multi-orgasmic through intercourse within minutes (it was usually clitoral stimulation with me). He really revived what lay dormant in me for as long as I’ve been alive. Methinks, it’s the incredible chemistry and magnetic animal attraction between us.

    It’ll be nice if I know a way to ejaculate too -not that it’s necessary- but I’m just so curious. It happened a few times in the past mainly through massaging the G-spot but I’d love to be able to do it naturally through intercourse as well.

  109.  #109tinque on October 2, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    Katarina – I’d be happy to share with you everything I know. We can do it here or via e-mail, whatever feels more comfortable to you.

  110.  #110Katarina Phang on October 2, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    Tinque, I’d rather discuss it in the open here so others can also learn.

  111.  #111tinque on October 2, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    Sure Katarine, so ask away. What do want to know? Where do you want me to start?

  112.  #112Katarina Phang on October 2, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    Well, what do we have to do to get to that place so we can squirt? I don’t think all women have the capacity for it. I’ve seen porn in which some women just squirt away like crazy, very easily. How do they do it? What do they have that I don’t?

  113.  #113tinque on October 2, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    This would make for a really good article for me to write for next week’s post, so I will put away what I was working on, and write about this instead.
    I will let you know when it’s up, usually Tuesdays.
    For now I believe this. All women have g-spots therefore all women have the potential for ejaculation. Some may gush, some may shoot across the room, some may dribble, and some may only have a drop or two which passes unnoticed.
    You can awaken your g-spot which I’ve written at length about, yet it usually takes time. It’s a process just like the work here is a process. AND our emotions, past hurts and traumas are a large part of what we can feel in our parts or not. The more you are able to release, the more you will be able to feel and experience. Different types of orgasms which you discovered Katarina with your new guy and I did with K. For me heightened sensation all around.
    It takes attention and focus and a desire as well as gentleness and patience with yourself. You didn’t build armoring up overnight, and it’s not likely to disappear that way either.
    There are techniques which encourage ejaculation. The women you see on porn videos have trained themselves. You too can train yourself. Once you get the idea of how it works, a drop can lead to a geyser, if that’s what you want.
    I will get into it in more depth in the article.

  114.  #114Katarina Phang on October 2, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    Wow, can’t wait. I certainly want to train myself. I kinda gave in to the “reality” that I wasn’t mean to climax through sex and was okay with it. I’m excited now that I’m much more of a sexual volcano than that. I can go on and on forever with SG (I always knew I had that capacity and had been in that situation more than a few times but only with him I found out that I could truly be totally lost each time with the ongoing orgasms and stuff). He’s truly awesome.

  115.  #115Katarina Phang on October 2, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    BTW guys, do you want to see some of our pics? Click here:

    I won’t keep them up for long, just in case….:D

  116.  #116tinque on October 2, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    You’re fortunate to have found this with SG. Not very women discover this “by accident”. I went about it differently. I just knew I could “do” more and set out to figure how, on my own at first, and then I employed K, and together I found a whole lot more.
    With FE I’ve been aware of it and knew a bit, but I found out more just recently and employed K from the beginning. Because my g-spot has already been awakened, it has been easier, and she’s wakening more and more. In three tried we’re up to dribbling.
    PS cute photos

  117.  #117Katarina Phang on October 2, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    Yes, I am. Sorry to ask silly question, K is a guy right? Just want to know if “she” is your g-spot, not K. 🙂

    I think it’s great news that women can actually discover a lot more about themselves sexually as they are older and more experienced.

    I’m into exploring it further and I have a great lover to do it with. He’s all into pleasuring me, even before himself. A true man.

  118.  #118BarbinOz on October 2, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    #120 Katarina

    Great pics of a very sexy and happy looking couple = you can almost feel the love (and sex) vibe 😀

    p.s. You have great legs!!

  119.  #119Katarina Phang on October 2, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    Barb, you’re too kind (blushing). 🙂

    I guess it’s showing I’m head over heels….sigh. I just want to be less obsessed about him now (can never get it right, can we lol…?). It used to be my hubby, now him.

    Time to date other guys and I’m fully booked all week. Can you believe it?

    SG said he didn’t expect I didn’t see other guys but he wanted to “ruin it for other guys.” I think he did…big time!! LOL…and I hope I have ruined it for other girls too.

  120.  #120BarbinOz on October 2, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    #103 OH WELL DONE ELLA!!!

    You are like a RR Goddess. You did so much better than me on my date yesterday but I wasn’t attracted to this man, so couldn’t do the looking into eyes thing or any more of that “love” stuff, I just couldn’t………

    You sound like you are in the UK too I can tell when somebody is by the way they use their words, like lads LOL!, this blog is just wonderful…

  121.  #121tinque on October 2, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Yes Katarina, K is my guy. Sorry, I’m so used to calling my feefee parts she as in she’s an entity all by herself, I forget not everyone is aware of this.
    My depth of sexual experience has gone to places I only imagined were possible, and I know there’s even more. Time and attention and love can take you very far.

  122.  #122BarbinOz on October 2, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    #124 Katarina

    Yes I can see this is going to be the most difficult part of the CD’ing, I mean if like my date yesterday you aren’t attracted then it doesn’t matter and you can just move forward and onwards to the next, but if I had a Mr Sexy in the background like you…..well……I will cross that bridge when I come to it, but that is my biggest fear, because when I fall I fall hard…..and I know turning my laser vision back to myself is going to be a challenge…..a big challenge…..

    Let us know how you go on with the other guys and how you feel dating them, I think I would be doing comparisons, that’s what I have done in the past when I was dating to get over somebody……but maybe things will be different the RR way….

  123.  #123Katarina Phang on October 2, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    Barb, I’m loving this whole “experimenting” these days. Really a great way to “extend oneself.” To really know what you’re made of deep down.

    This new whole attitude and perspective on dating really changes everything. I have all great guys lining up. You simply attract what you send out.

    I might meet a few other “SGs” only locally….only then, we’re talking…! 🙂

    I’m telling myself my happiness doesn’t depend on any man, not even SG. I need to lean back big time, it’s so hard not to try texting him every 5 seconds. I know the extent of his feeling and adoration for me but he’s a mere man, at the end of the day. Relationship isn’t everything for him -the way it naturally is for us women- as his biology dictates.

    We’re just so different.

  124.  #124Lizzie on October 2, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    Barb – was this the guy who called you Aunty?? What happened with the date??

  125.  #125Ella on October 2, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    Thanks so much. It was a big breakthrough for me. And now I am struggling with the issue you and Katrina were just discussing – the dreaded tunnel vision on the guy and obsessiveness because I like him.
    However this time I am going to work out how to do it differently!
    I am in the UK, spot on! Lol. Whereabouts roughly are you?

  126.  #126Tina on October 2, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    To Rori –

    #41 – Did I miss the response?

    Thanks for any and all help you can give.

  127.  #127tinque on October 2, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    “Relationship isn’t everything for him -the way it naturally is for us women- as his biology dictates.”

    This may be true Katarina, BUT when a man falls hard, is smitten in more than a passing infatuation kind of way, is truly and deeply in love and loves his woman profoundly, then this relationship is HUGELY important. I would venture to say it’s AS important as his mission which is usually considered a man’s most important aspect.

  128.  #128BarbinOz on October 2, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    #129 Lizzie

    Nope never heard back from Aunty LOL!!

    Different guy yesterday and I have a date lined up for tomorrow, its a public holiday here, Labour Day so I am meeting him in the city as he lives about a 3 hr drive from me, thats what a lot of people on dating sites do here, get a train into the Sydney as this is such a vast area. He has suggested a ferry ride on Sydney harbour so that should be fun and is something I only normally do when I have my overseas visitors.

  129.  #129BarbinOz on October 2, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    Oh and Lizzie, it must be your profile writing!! I have it on both POF and RSVP (paid Aussie site) and I am getting a lot of response 🙂

    On RSVP last night I got kisses from 2 guys, 1 is 44 (!!) and the other is 33 (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) whoa thats younger than my own kids LOL!!

    And on POF which I hardly ever got any response from any more, like it had all dried up and any available men had already contacted me, well I have had about another 5 or 6 men this week showing interest, 1 of them is the guy I am meeting tomorrow, so thank you 😀

  130.  #130BarbinOz on October 2, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    OOops the 33 year old is younger than my kids NOT the 44 year old, mind you that is pretty much the age of my daughter’s boyfriend he is 42…….that would be weird they could all talk about the same kind of music and movies ha ha!!

  131.  #131Lizzie on October 2, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    Oh Barb, I am so pleased! Thank you!! I hope with all this new activity, you meet someone who really steps-up.

    I am done with my experiment of the bucket list. It was a dud. I am also going to go back to my old photo – it is quite lovely. My new handle on POF is “theList” – have a look in about 15 min and then you can give me some feedback.


  132.  #132BarbinOz on October 2, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    #130 Ella

    I am in Sydney Australia now but am from Liverpool and lived in the UK for a year, only got back in April and I miss it sooo much every day 🙁

    I lived/worked in the beautiful Lake District for 6 months and for 4 months in Somerset, the rest of the time with family.

    Yes the laser vision and obsessiveness is a REAL concern to me, this is going to be my GREATEST challenge yet when I meet a man I am into to.

    And funny enough reading Katarina’s post something triggered for me reading this:

    “SG said he didn’t expect I didn’t see other guys but he wanted to “ruin it for other guys.” I think he did…big time!! LOL…and I hope I have ruined it for other girls too.”

    I KNOW for sure this about myself, that if I had slept with a guy and he didn’t mind that I was dating others, I would be incredibly insulted and hurt that he didn’t want me to be with just him and he wanted just me me me LOL!!

    That is why I am not going to have sex until I am in an Exclusive Committed Relationship as I am far too thin skinned and sensitive not to get hurt otherwise…….then again saying this if Mr Blow My Socks Off comes along who knows………:)

  133.  #133Nikita on October 2, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    Uh….so I looked up Thelist on pof and I got

    The List
    I am a very busy person that does not have time for alot of things in life. I am here to find a descrete f*** buddy for the most part. Dinner, drinks, conversation, and let it go wherever it does from  Omaha Nebraska
    thelist 32    MSF – Intimate Encounter   

  134.  #134tinque on October 2, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    BarbinOz – My best friend lives in Syndey. Wouldn’t it be strange in the most wonderful way if you know her?
    You don’t happen to do ballet do you? Or buy pretty handmade jewlery.
    Actually if you’ve lived in Sydney for any length of time you will know of her husband, a famous to Aussies Olympic swimmer.

  135.  #135Lizzie on October 2, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    Barb – oops – my handle is “myList” on POF

  136.  #136Nikita on October 2, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    Oh wow…I can see the Scorpio 🙂

    Nothing serious?? Is that the sag speaking…..or is that a little web 😉

  137.  #137Lizzie on October 2, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    Nikita – you can see the Scorpio? really??? where/how? I am so curious.

    Nothing serious – you got it! that Sag … there is no selection for “go with the flow”

  138.  #138BarbinOz on October 2, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    #139 Tinque

    Me do ballet too too funny!!! I am not the ballet dance type, though I do have a friend who has twin daughters who were/are both ballerina’s none married to a swimmer though……

  139.  #139BarbinOz on October 2, 2010 at 4:52 pm


    I knew you were as beautiful as you write!! Great profile and stunning pics, you look sooo like Susan Sarandon, I bet people tell you that all the time, I love her too 😀

    And your hair is to die for……

  140.  #140Nikita on October 2, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    Yup. Hair color….the eyes…..

    Im also getting a slight Susan sarandon a la Durham bulls vibe…. She’s a libra in real life….but there’s something similar….the heightened sexuality maybe….scorpios emit something though they “pretend” not to 😉

  141.  #141Nikita on October 2, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    Omg…. Lizzie? Do you get that a lot??

  142.  #142Nikita on October 2, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    And Diane lane comes to mind too….but for different reasons….I wonder…..why? I thought of Diane before Susan came to me…. Hmmm…

  143.  #143Lizzie on October 2, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    Susan Sarandon – she has this one photo on the web that is a dead ringer. Completely blows me away. And the hair is real 🙂
    well actually, I say to David, my hair guy, “just make it gloriously sexy…” and he does his magic. I could just squeeze his tiny little bum….
    I was looking at youtube videos this morning about the different zodiac signs – this comic acts out all the signs – I will go looking for the link and post it for you. I laughted myself silly – and for me if she had blended the scorpio with the sag, it would be so me. And! it is definately the scorp. male.
    back in a sec…

  144.  #144Lizzie on October 2, 2010 at 5:19 pm

  145.  #145Katarina Phang on October 2, 2010 at 5:25 pm


    “I KNOW for sure this about myself, that if I had slept with a guy and he didn’t mind that I was dating others, I would be incredibly insulted and hurt that he didn’t want me to be with just him and he wanted just me me me LOL!!

    That is why I am not going to have sex until I am in an Exclusive Committed Relationship as I am far too thin skinned and sensitive not to get hurt otherwise…….then again saying this if Mr Blow My Socks Off comes along who knows………:)”

    I feel at this point, it’s unrealistic to be invested too much in each other. I’m not ready, neither I feel is he. We need more time to know each other, to be really sure that we want to be each other and no one else.

    I don’t want to be unfair to him. I do want to see other guys (including my husband) and have all the options I need so I don’t get obsessed with one particular guy until I know he’s committed to me.

    Especially now we’re doing this long distance. It’s not easy. Let this thing progress in a more manageable pace. I’m secure in the knowledge we did fall in love because what we have is so rare and special. I have faith that even if he sees other women, he won’t have the kind experience we have. Not even close.

    I’m at a good place for now.

    If he does ask us to be exclusive, then I will start thinking about it. I won’t be the one who initiates the conversation. I don’t even call him. He can call me if he wants to talk but I won’t do it.

  146.  #147Katarina Phang on October 2, 2010 at 5:29 pm


    “This may be true Katarina, BUT when a man falls hard, is smitten in more than a passing infatuation kind of way, is truly and deeply in love and loves his woman profoundly, then this relationship is HUGELY important. I would venture to say it’s AS important as his mission which is usually considered a man’s most important aspect.”

    True but still in its outer expression men are far more restraint and far and few in between compared to us men. That doesn’t mean however that he feels less than us.

    We just express it differently, in different frequencies/intensities.

    Ok ladies, I have to get ready to go for date #1 this week.

  147.  #148Katarina Phang on October 2, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    sorry I mean “compared to us women.”

  148.  #149Katarina Phang on October 2, 2010 at 5:55 pm

    And Barb, actually the sex is what bonds us so deep. That is what allows us to fall in love with each other. Without it we wouldn’t have been in love right now.

    I’m of those few women who strongly believe that sex actually works to our advantage. It hooks men like no other way would.

    But again, it’s perhaps just me.

  149.  #150Erika Awakening on October 2, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    Different take, as usual, lol, I suppose that’s part of how I add value here.

    I don’t believe there are any toxic men. I believe we attract men to us who have similar patterns that mirror what we are holding inside us. I don’t believe in labeling people as narcissistic etc.

    From my perspective, Crazy-making stuff comes not from the other person but from the egoic patterns written into our own belief systems (“damned if you do and damned if you don’t” type thinking). As the inner conflicts are released, the “crazy-making” stuff will simply disappear. When I’ve been really honest with myself in various situations where I thought the other person was doing “crazy-making” stuff, I realized they were simply mirroring me.

    I also wanted to express my appreciation, as I’ve been attracting more female clients lately, not necessarily from here directly, but I feel that my energy around coaching more women has shifted from conversations we’ve had on here. And I’m really enjoying coaching more women. I’m especially noticing a particular satisfaction in knowing that I can help them attract more financial abundance and feel more worthy of receiving beyond what they believed was possible. So thanks for that 🙂

  150.  #151Lizzie on October 2, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    Erika interesting perspective. Perhaps you have never met a clinically diagnosed hostile narcissist?

    In general, I am on the same page as you in terms of labeling – I am far too open, accepting and non-judgmental to warm to labeling.

    I suppose it is sheer fortune that I was not the one who labeled my exH – that was all done by the professionals who stepped in to save my children from a rather nasty fate. So I shall just assume you are referring to toxic men who are otherwise on the spectrum of what most in society would call normal?

    Otherwise I pretty much see the “dysfunctional” behaviour in men as driven from a place of self-protection, fear and anger because they have been beaten up by their boss etc. Or maybe their elevator just doesn’t go to the top floor and they behave oddly as a result. But my experience is the ones whose elevator doesn’t rise too high, are rather delightful people who enjoy life differently – and I like that.

  151.  #152Erika Awakening on October 2, 2010 at 6:52 pm


    No, I really mean I don’t believe in the label, as I think labels are self-fulfilling prophecies and walls we build between ourselves and other people.

    Here, I’m going to let Kelly Bryson help me out. He’s a wonderful teacher of NVC, and I found this (which he apparently wrote) on the NVC free resource page:

    “Asshole!!!” She says like a champion dart thrower, and then all in one motion, turns on her heal and storms out of the room. Suddenly, I felt like a hit and run victim. Shock waves of shame shot through me as the mushroom cloud of my worthlessness rose inside of me.

    How could my sweet childlike honesty trigger such a verbally vile response? I decided to project the “inner critic show” going on in my head onto the ceiling. The first character on stage is my original coping mechanism, my Neurotic, who blames himself whenever there is conflict.

    “Look at you, you’re pathetic. You can’t even be there for your friend in her hour of need. And you call yourself a teacher of Compassionate Communication.”

    As I started to put the shattered pieces of my ego back together, the roar of righteous indignation rose in my belly. Enter my Character Disorder who blames others whenever there is conflict.

    “Who the hell does she think she is? I’m not putting up with this rude, verbally abusive, boundary-invading, perpetrator behavior!” It was of some relief to have my inner critic focus on someone else for a moment.

    Then my education pays off as my Therapist Complex offers the final analysis: “She is obviously suffering from a pseudo narcissistic personality disorder with paranoid borderline tendencies.”

    Then (thank goodness), I remembered what Marshall Rosenberg said: “All judgments are a tragic expressions of unmet needs.”

    So I started to look for the pain in my body. Oh there it is – OUTRAGE. And what are the universal human needs underneath my outrage? Respect, gentleness, safety. What else is in there, because I know anger never comes alone. There is always hurt or fear or something under it. Now I can feel it – devastating hurt and a need for reassurance that I am valued.

    As I lay there giving myself empathy (i.e. paying attention to, and feeling into, what my reaction was all about), I start to feel a relieving shift in my body. I begin to wonder if my friend is experiencing the same thing – hurt and needing reassurance that she is valued.

    “When I heard you call me an asshole a while ago, were you feeling angry and hurt because you were really needing reassurance that your need to be heard really mattered?” Her eyes started to fill with tears and a faint outline of a smile started to creep across her lips as she said, “It’s about time asshole.”

    “Yes, I’m guessing that was painful for you and you would have liked this quality of listening earlier.” I said. “Yes,” she said, the tears now flowing freely. “But I am also relieved that you waited till you were ready to do so instead of trying to give me empathy from Hell and then resenting me.”

    How beautiful to finally see the truth behind “asshole.” How beautiful to finally hear that my dear friend is in pain and wanting some reassurance from me that she mattered. This allowed me to actually enjoy my partner’s pain. I don’t mean this in the sadistic sense. I mean that there is a distinct joy in the intimacy of feeling the same feeling with another even if it is some type of pain.

    There is also a sense of relief in the awareness that as I am present to my partner’s pain she is being assisted in going deeper into, and therefore through, her pain. As John Bradshaw says, “the quickest way out of pain is through it.”

    I am glad I gave her my honesty (that the tone had triggered fear and that I wanted to lay there a while), because it ultimately led to a deeper level of intimacy.

    Kelly Bryson MA, MFT, is a CNVC certified trainer and the author of the best selling book, Don’t be Nice, Be Real: Balancing Passion for Self with Compassion for Others. Kelly is a humorist, singer, inspirational speaker, and licensed therapist in private practice. Learn more about his work, find about his private or phone-based sessions, and buy his book at

  152.  #153Lizzie on October 2, 2010 at 7:33 pm

    Erika, yes, yes, I agree. I see it more easily with my “PST RAD” kids – their rage is only a signal of extreme pain (the life or death scream) that has been triggered. Often when my daughter is stressed, her behaviour is extremely difficult for her to manage and contain – her lashing out would be an understatement. As long as I don’t get triggered by her violence, I am able to suggest that perhaps a massage may help. To which she will scream at the top of her lungs “YES, ALL I EVER WANTED WAS A MASSAGE!!!” By the time she has the table set -up and arranged, I have been able to centre effectively and become one with her energy to give her a glorious full body massage. In so doing, I arrive at a much calmer place as well – we become one.

    Her labels only provided me with a point of understanding early on in my relationship with her. We do not need them any more.

  153.  #154BarbinOz on October 2, 2010 at 9:47 pm

    #154 Katarina

    I love how you describe this bonding but my fear is of ME bonding to HIM more than HE is bonding to ME, it has happened to me and it did not feel good……so I will be waiting for Mr Right…..

  154.  #155Katarina Phang on October 3, 2010 at 1:39 am

    Barb, I do understand. It’s a dilemma. If you are not bonding, you have little interest and motivation. If you are, you get fixated.

    Problem is you won’t know Mr. Right till you experience the bonding first, so I don’t think you can skip that part. It goes through stages and natural progression.

    As I said, men need to fall in love with you and they usually won’t till they experience the whole you through sex where they allow themselves to be totally open and vulnerable.

    My lovemaking with SG was so passionate, furious, yet so tender. He said it’s not possible to feel love to be that intimate with someone. He also said that he feels so loved because I’m so giving and accepting.

    Okay now I’m missing him like crazy but that’s why I won’t stop dating. I just got home (2 dates in fact, didn’t like the first guy so went off to the second one, a guy 9 years younger -he’s cute but I’m not sure he’s really for me. He was all into me but we made out a bit, that was it).

  155.  #156Katarina Phang on October 3, 2010 at 1:41 am

    Sorry I meant to say “He said it’s not possible NOT to feel love to be that intimate with someone.”

  156.  #157Ella on October 3, 2010 at 4:26 am

    Barb & Katarina,

    I feel interested reading the discussion about sex. I share the same reservations that Barb has expressed. know that I tend to get attached when I sleep with a man who I like(all those chemicals and hormones), and I will not sleep with anyone I am not really attracted to.

    I do not think that not having sex at all until I am married (cus if I am doing CD-ing properly this is the only time I will stop) is really an option for me because I would feel as though I would be shutting off an important part of me and not expressing myself fully. On the other hand I feel anxious around this issue. I guess in time it will become clearer.

    I would love to be able to sleep with someone soon, as I feel very passionate and sexual right now, however I feel worried about the labels people may put on me and my own reactions to the situation. I am not ready yet.

  157.  #158Brenda on October 3, 2010 at 5:03 am

    Senior Lady Vibe,

    #68 – You said, “I came back because of the “cliff hanger” in the story–Brenda, did you write “the letter” to the celebrity musician way back in 1995? What happened?”

    Sorry, I didn’t mean to leave my story hanging. I was so wrapped up in the emotions of it at the moment I wrote that in the questions thread that my brain wasn’t functioning too well.

    When I was with Larry Norman in those two hours, I tried to tell him with my eyes that I was also attracted to him. I didn’t have the guts to verbally say it. When I got home, I immediately sent him a letter, followed by another one, and I never got a response. About five years later, I emailed him, and he emailed back. I asked him why he offered for me to write him and then never wrote back. He apologized briefly about his hectic schedule and meeting so many people all the time, and then he said, “But I’m answering you now!”

    But time had passed, and the thunder was gone, and he probably didn’t even remember me.

    I thought I knew all of Larry Norman’s music. But after he passed away two years ago, I heard a song I had never heard. Apparently the song is so new that right now I can’t even find the lyrics on the internet. It struck me at a deep level, and here are part of the lyrics I have memorized, and it’s called “I Am Near”:

    You are the love that I could never find
    Because I was so blind

    It’s a beautiful song, and it was like a personal good bye to me from the grave, even tho it wasn’t really. But I really took it to heart.

    Thanks for asking!

  158.  #159Brenda on October 3, 2010 at 5:06 am

    Yet another note…

    For years I have tormented myself, wishing I had just had the guts to say, “I am so attracted to you” or something to let him know I didn’t care that he was 17 years older!

    And that is one reason I became so leaning forward and overfunctioning…which I am now undoing. I think when it’s a well known/famous person, you almost have to lean forward if you sense the feeling is mutual. But I would love to know Rori’s thoughts about that…or anyone else’s! 🙂

  159.  #160BarbinOz on October 3, 2010 at 5:14 am

    I would lean forward if it was Clive Owen or Colin Firth and damn the consequences later LOL!! 😀

  160.  #161Katarina Phang on October 3, 2010 at 9:29 am

    Ella, that’s where the problem is: women care too much about what other people think of them instead of being authentic. That’s the root of “feeling lousy after sex” for the most part, I think.

    Don’t have sex with men you don’t like. Noooo….I didn’t like the guy I dated last night and he wanted to have sex of course but I said I wanted to leave. Don’t settle, don’t give in.

    But if you find one you are attracted to, hell…go for it! Enjoy it. Take advantage of it. You don’t know what might spring from that.

    “Attachment” is part of stages of relationship. I’m going through it right now too, the only difference is I’m aware of it and not having it rule my life. I won’t have it any other way. I’m glad I had the chance to do what we did with SG. I feel blessed that I actually have the capacity to fall in love that quickly after my breakup.

  161.  #162Jennifer on October 3, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    Random Riffing.
    I feel totally turned off. Maybe hormones. Who cares.
    School yard guy sent me a message on FB. “I need your cell phone number hun.”
    Wow. Fck you buddy.
    For real.
    Stand me up and then get back to me two weeks later and want my number again?
    Me thinky no.
    I messaged back “why? did ya lose it?”
    Cause I’m curious as to the excuse. Although I know this dude already disqalified himself.
    This is unfair? Maybe. Fck him.
    I feel nasty.
    I feel mean.
    I feel like biting someone.
    I did some masculine energy advice giving. I don’t like to do this. I don’t feel qualified.
    Who am I to give advice?
    My cousin’s daugher has an intellectual delay. She’s a fantastic, sweet, beautiful girl.
    Her fb status said “can’t you see I’m just an ordinary girl?”
    Turns out she’s all intimidated by some dude at school whom she thinks she’s not good enough for.
    So I talked to her about it for a while.
    |Basically I said….if you like this dude. HIS life just got a bit better.
    Stuff I wish to hell some one had said to me when I was a struggling, awkward, unpopular teenager.
    Here’s the part that scares me.
    He wants her to call him
    This dude is 18. She has an intellecutal delay.
    Her capacity for decision making and foretelling possible consequences is not very sophisticated.
    I do not trust the personal ethical framework of an 18 year old boy where my cousin is concerned.
    I feel nervous.
    I feel agitated.
    I feel suspicious
    I feel protective.
    Thankfully I work at the highshcool she goes to so I can ask around abut this kid and see if he’s a good kid generally or a douche bag.
    I suddenly remember why I hated highschool.
    This is like a John Huges movie…with the possibility of going horribly wrong.

  162.  #163Erika Awakening on October 3, 2010 at 1:25 pm


    Full body massage feels a lovely image of connectedness, touch, affection …

  163.  #164Jennifer on October 3, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    practicing feeling messages with judo man
    on FB chat.
    told him that school yard guy contacted me after standing me up.
    I said…”I felt invisible when he did that”
    he said “well, try not to let other people’s behaviour make you feel any way.”

  164.  #165Ella on October 3, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Jennifer… ha ha, what a typical man response! I guess he is in his man energy! 🙂

  165.  #166Erika Awakening on October 3, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    Been so busy lately. Did sessions most of the day. Finally have a few hours free before tonight’s sessions.

    Part of me said I “should” write a newsletter with a new article and a new offer, or post a blog. I don’t feel like it though. I feel like relaxing and receiving.

  166.  #167Brenda on October 3, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    Daria or anyone who may know…

    I am currently texting with Ryan after 9 days of not hearing from him. He finally initiated again. This is my first time not asking, “How are you?” back, as you suggested, and I feel very weird and self-centered. So we are texting back and forth, and it is question and answer, me answering. I feel uncomfortable with that. It’s the way it always was. Me giving (feelings and info) and him receiving. I don’t like it.

    When he never or hardly ever volunteers information, is this still the right way to lean back?

  167.  #168Brenda on October 3, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    Here is the text convo so far:

    R: Hey. How are you?
    B: Hey! I feel all relaxed after sleeping most of the day.
    R: That’s good. Did you have a good day?
    B: Yes, I went to WalMart and felt too tired to go in. I had a glorious nap reclined in my car seat with cool wind and sun washing over me as I dreamed about flying!
    R: That’s wonderful. Were the girls with you (my dogs)?
    B: No, I wanted them with me but I had just dropped off Chris and her daughter after I took them grocery shopping. I crossed paths with a nice lady who I worked with 4 yrs ago.
    R: Did you have a good conversation with her?
    B: Yes, we talked at the store about a half hour. It felt good the way she had just mentioned me at work on Friday and gave me her number and wanted to stay in touch.
    R: That’s really good. 🙂 Do you think you could become friends with her?
    B: Thanks! I think so! She is one of my 3 favorite people I ever worked wtih. We had confusion over parts of a document, and she named the parts Thelma, Louise, etc.
    R: 🙂
    B: Tell me about your day!
    R: Nothing really too exciting…just walked around town a lot.
    B: That’s invigorating on a nice day like this! Were you in (new town he just moved to)?

    I experimented with not saying how are you and then finally I said tell me about your day cuz it was dying out. I almost always feel frustrated because even when I ask questions, he just doesn’t tell me much about himself.

    What do you think/feel? I mean, I know this is really infantile, but it is starting over with Ryan, and I want to do it right this time! 🙂

  168.  #169Brenda on October 3, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    His final response? “Yeah”

    Dead conversation. How should I communicate to him how frustrating it is to have a two way conversation with him? Next week or next month when he contacts me, should I give him monosyllables in response rather than feeling messages?

  169.  #170Jennifer on October 3, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    school yard guy says “yes I did. I got a new blackberry too…please and thank you.”
    I wanna smack this jackass.

  170.  #171Jennifer on October 3, 2010 at 8:01 pm

    where’s that thread where somebody helped me with feeling messages.
    I have wicked pms.
    I hate everything.
    Ah Caramel cakes are not making me happy.
    I feel fat.

  171.  #172Jennifer on October 3, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    my reply a la Simply Shannon
    I feel surprised hearing from you. I feel confused. Were you going to text me about getting together the other day? Cuz right now I feel mad and stood up based on our last convo. I don’t want to feel that way. What do you think?
    Yeah for siren island. Yeah for the sisterhood of the feeling messages.
    Boo for pms and stupid men.

  172.  #173Brenda on October 3, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    I’d like to share some of my beautiful letter from Kenny! He writes romantic stuff that outdoes romance novels, and he gives me a lot of advice on dating, too, so I thought you all might like to enjoy some of this with me! BTW, I have his permission to do this. Kenny wrote:

    Sure do love you, sweeties, and I do mean that I reallllly, reallllllllllllly love you! My love for you never diminishes. Very most important thing in this life to me is you and your happiness, not my happiness, but yours, because my personal happiness is found in you. It’s very important to me that you do find a real measure of happiness for self. I truly stay conflicted over that fact because I’ve witnessed moments for you where you knew the freedom of just being you.

    I know God knows my heart, and what He instilled in me for you, because I’m your Warrior Angel assigned, devoted to protecting you no matter how many times I get cut with the sword over it. Bren, let it all go, and get on with you, period. I love you!

    You know what you did once again when you stated you are giving up on dating? Once again, you miss a chance to live and feel and experience, even if it’s pain and crawl back into your bubble of loneliness. When underneath all the layers of self-discovery is Bren who is vibrant, alive, playful, adventurous, and fun loving. All you are doing is piling on more layers of crap that you’ll have to peel off later from giving up once again.

    Meantime, you will gain more weight, which translates into self-hate. It breaks my heart, because I have seen the light in you and that unique precious glow that stems from being the woman you are. I say this out of a heart that beats pure love for you, and only you. I wish I could turn my heart into a cloud, a storm cloud, to follow you wherever you go and it’d rain my love drops on everyone you meet and they’d be drenched in love only for you as my heart pumps a never-ending supply of love for you. I love you!

    You know how that love came to be? You, my dear, took a chance and got to know me, allowed me a chance to get to know you. Together we soared to levels of love and trust that speak for us today. All you got to do is give people a chance and not give up on self, because that’s all you are doing. I love you!

    You personally can’t tell me it’s the man’s fault that you give up on dating, because I’ve seen you at the top of the mountain with the sun shining as a backdrop, with the crown of a Princess on your head. Don’t you get it, you’re a Warrior Princess, and why do you constantly persuade yourself that you are only a handmaid? You are too wrapped up, trapped up, and all your energy goes to people in need around you, and you feed, seed your loneliness bubble. I love you!

    The big thing is you need someone who’ll hang out and cuddle with you and have an honest desire to do things with you, help you, etc. Real company, someone who finds true joy in being with you. The rule is that there are no rules, and you establish rules with each individual as needed. All this pre-set, pre-notions is a hindrance, not helpful, and apply as you see it unfold.

    I love you and I know I’m the bad guy for now. I have become the good sailor in the sea of Bren, and I’ll ride out the storm as I always do because I love you. “Smile!” I’ll just be floating around in my lifeboat of love and when the storm gets too rough, you’ll climb in because it’s your love. I love you!

    My words are about you and what is good for you, because regardless, you do need interaction with men in order to honestly find a balance in self. You need total me time as well, and learn to rest your mind. I miss you, I so miss you.

  173.  #174Daria on October 3, 2010 at 9:36 pm

    Brenda – Great!! next time, don’t “pick up the slack”

    with “tell me about your day”

    when he happy faces… let it be…

    there’s only so far text convos can go…

    if you let it go, he will be more motivated to contact you again, and faster…

    i pause and don’t ask anything even when i get the thought that he, the man, might expect it.

    he’s not really (necessarily) supposed to give you lots of info about himself. He IS supposed to ask you a lot of questions about you = showing interest.

    your job is to Be with those feelings of feeling uncomfortable of having the focus be on you

    the more you embrace that, the more and more he will contact you and want to get close to you

  174.  #175Brenda on October 3, 2010 at 9:39 pm


    Thank you very much for your feedback!! Whew, that’s hard! It feels so self-centered tho! I will experiment next time around without even picking up the slack.

    Tell me candidly…are my attempts at feeling messages to answer his questions too over the top? Am I trying too hard? It felt unnatural…

  175.  #176Daria on October 3, 2010 at 9:41 pm

    Kenny’s letter sounds lovely

  176.  #177Daria on October 3, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    Brenda – no, not necessarily, tho they were quite filled with info lol

    actually, who am i kidding… they were GREAT! you sound really open and inviting with them

    once he stops asking and does a smily face,

    its time for a pause

    he might then pick up the slack Again! and ask another question…

    (or not)

    either way… you are doing great

  177.  #178Daria on October 3, 2010 at 9:47 pm

    Brenda – i think if i leaned forward with a person, i may actually be LESS likely to “get” them…

    so i wouldn’t want to sabotage it… with a super star

    my best attraction method would be to smile and hold eye contact…

    leaning forward might not get me what i want (his attention)

    im pretty sure if i smile open my heart and STARE IN HIS EYES hes gonna Do something…

  178.  #179Brenda on October 3, 2010 at 10:06 pm


    Thank you again for all your feedback! It’s really helpful. I see more clearly where you are coming from on the texting with Ryan.

    I did my best to give direct eye contact with Larry Norman. His eyes were SO intense tho, and it was hard. But I think that is perfect feedback for future encounters I might have like that! 🙂

    Kenny is so in love with me that he’s willing to give me up just so I can be happy before his release. I feel touched. I just feel bad because I love him dearly, but my heart belongs to Ryan.

    I am going to try to CD. I joined a new dating site on Friday, and, once again, I am getting a lot of responses from other states, and even one from Jordan. My experience tells me that they are scammers. But I am not even responding anymore, because I don’t want another long distance relationship, even if they are on the up and up. I am trying, but I still prefer to meet men in person. I am going to another POF event in a couple of weeks. But I am not really into the bar scene.

  179.  #180Jacqueline on October 3, 2010 at 10:33 pm

    hey, Brenda – I wonder what would happen if you texted Ryan – It would feel so good to hear your voice, why don’t you call me I can talk right now?

    and Daria – just happy to see you!!

    Hope you all have a great start to the week!

    Fasting from Rori blog is almost as bad as not eating chocolate!!!


  180.  #181Brenda on October 3, 2010 at 11:00 pm


    Thanks for the suggestion. It’s something I’ve both tried and considered. I am choosing to lean back because there was a lot of damage in the relationship and I am letting it rebuild organically. I am letting him call when he wants, and I’m happy because we have a fresh start.

    I just ordered “Reconnect Your Relationship”, and I feel really excited to listen to it!

  181.  #182Daisy on October 4, 2010 at 4:13 am

    Wow I am laying here feeling wonderful doing some mind spirit work… Even while feeling pinched by nvs and feeling my body a lil tight…

    And I found two wonderful things

    One… Is that I can bless money. This is so great I feel smily with gratitude .

    I recently transformed my relationship with smoking herb by blessing it. And so the same will be with money. Thank you for the lovely ability to bless, god. Thank you. For it’s amazing power. Thank you.

    I am already having ideas and taking lil babysteps to blessing things that troubled me like prisons. Let them be a place of rest and spiritual growth and bonding .

    Second – I learned that what I really lived about guywhohadababy was how loved I felt by him. I felt really seen, and respected and protected and loved. And when I felt that, I thought that I would never feel it again. And that was not true. It felt good then, when I was not in the habit of seeing myself. It felt unusual, his strong love, in my life. And that is how he was, hd had a habit of being able to see you.

    Like me now, when I listen with my goddess powers.

    And I want yo love myself as much then more.

    I feel lovely. I feel happy. I feel tightenings and I love my body… Will stretch tomorrow beautiful, for you.

  182.  #183Renee on October 4, 2010 at 5:29 am

    Brenda — I know this flies in the face of the Rori’s advice, but I don’t see anything wrong with asking the occasional question as long as the guy is leading most of the time. I base this not only on my personal experience, but also on a phone conversation I had this weekend with an ex-boyfriend (who is now strictly a platonic — neither of us wants anything more) and he told me about a ‘bad’ date he had recently where he asked the woman question after question about herself and she didn’t ask him a single question about himself. After about an hour, he finally got fed up and said, “Can you tell me a single thing you’re learned about me? I mean, after several phone calls and nearly an hour here at the restaurant, I could tell you the ages and names of your children, your parents, where you grew up and even the names of your last few boyfriends, but you have yet to ask me a single question about me. Were you ever going to get around to trying to find out anything about my life or what makes me tick?”

    At this point, obviously, the date was pretty much over, which he knew before he opened his mouth (he’s pretty clued in to personal dynamics having been an expert in sales for years) and her lack of questions just made him feel like she was self-absorbed and not truly interested in him, and I can’t say I blame him.

    I know this is tricky because you definitely want the man to be ‘leading’ things, but I believe that asking the occasional open-ended question is perfectly appropriate and helps the other person know that you’re interested.

    In my relationship w/Blondie, he’s definitely the one who asks most of the questions (he’s been rowing the boat from day one and is also naturally inquisitive) but on occasion, he’ll say, “Do you have a question for me?” or “I’ve been monopolizing all the questions…do you have a question for me?” because he wants me to show interest in him as well and I’m happy to oblige.

    I think you can stick with the ‘spirit’ of Rori’s advice (which, I think, is to let the man lead most of the conversation) without banning questions altogether. What do you think?

  183.  #184Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 8:33 am


    You said, ” her lack of questions just made him feel like she was self-absorbed and not truly interested in him…” That was my concern when I said I felt self-centered. I do feel the way you said. In the past, I asked questions back to him consistently. I was experimenting, up to a point, with doing what Daria suggested. I still don’t feel at peace with NOT asking questions, especially when this particular man has a track record of gathering information from me while remaining almost a complete wall to me.

    In effect, I feel like I am giving and he is receiving. Just like I want HIM to rub MY back once in a while (which he rarely did, BTW), I want HIM to tell me about HIS heart, soul, and every day world. It has always felt lopsided from the door, and I really need to find a healthy balance with him. I am really looking forward to Rori’s “Reconnect Your Relationship”, because I am serious about wanting to do it right this time around. I am so much better equipped than I was last year. Rori’s tools really do need time to gel, because you can’t just say certain words. It is truly a deep, inner shift. Thank God, I feel like much of that shift has taken place in me. I feel really ready to have a positive relationship. I just need to tweak a few fine points where he is so closed.

    If anyone has any further thoughts and feelings, I welcome them!!

  184.  #185Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 8:50 am


    I like that about blessing money!

  185.  #186Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 8:52 am

    I wonder if it would be appropriate to say to Ryan:

    I feel weird when I tell you about me and my life when it’s not reciprocated. It would feel so good to be a part of your deep truth, not just every day stuff you would share with people. I don’t know how to get that across without stepping on your boundaries. What do you think?

    I welcome anyone’s feedback on this feeling message if you care to! 🙂

  186.  #187Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 9:38 am

    Lucy texted me this just now:

    I see Ryan’s questions as GIVING you attention and love and interest, and your answers as RECEIVING his attention and love and interest.

    Also, when he starts fading in convo, just don’t respond, or say GTG TTYL. TN Man’s motto is “Always leave them wanting more.”

    He may pick up on your frustration with him and that may help keep the walls up. If you relax and bask in his attention, then he can relax too.

    With new CD contacts, I rarely ask questions. I let them be curious about ME because I am the goddess hehe! And I let them drive the convo because they are the man.

    I really like this, and it resonates with me. I still feel a lil concerned that he might think I am not interested in him. But, at least in Ryan’s case, I guess I have expressed interest in the real him enough in the past for him to know I want to know his deep truth.

    Nevertheless, it still leaves me feeling vulnerable. He used my feelings as a compass last year. The closer I felt to him, the more he psychologically abused me. I felt like a mouse between a cat’s paws being toyed with.

  187.  #188Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 9:54 am

    Maybe next time I’m on the phone with Ryan, I can say simply, “I feel vulnerable.” When he asks why, I can say, “I feel emotionally exposed. I don’t like not knowing what you think when I unzip my heart. What can we do to be more present with each other?”

    How does that sound?

  188.  #189Daria on October 4, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    Brenda –

    I agree with Lucy that him asking questions is Giving.

    Rori has said, in an e-letter, that men don’t talk about their emotions and deep stuff as much as we women do – AND WE DONT WANT THEM TO!

    they are to be in the masculine

    it’s those feelings of being uncomfortable that are CRUCIAL

    that you embrace them. this is a great opportunity that can really open up the vibe

    I had to do it when I first stared CD’ing, and I know it feels uncomfortable to feel self centered

    being able to hold that space is what makes a man feel SAFE. then he may begin to talk about himself … and then its time to listen at level 2

    I actually find that, after having practiced the tools, I feel much better about myself and the man’s masculinity when he is asking me questions…

    the ones who talk about themselves I feel a lil judgemental of…

    Ryan is actually doing GREAT…

    (ps, it is ok, according to Rori, that after he has asked us about us, we can, out of curiousity, say, and how about you?)

    that is appropriate when the woman has been basking in receiving energy, and plenty of pauses, and is feeling secure and given to, and asked out of curiosity

    In this case, and since you have leaned forward so much in the past, and you have an agenda of wanting him to tell you about him… it woudl not be appropriate

    telling him that message of “bieng more present,” when he has been acutely present, asking you about your dogs, how you feel about the friend, and other detailed questions…I think that would be a huge pressure that will turn him away, and a huge unappreciation of the effort he is making

    as you see, the conversation immediately fizzled out after you asked him (Ryan doesn’t seem to want to be in feminine energy – good for him!)

    I do know that after practice, it started to feel natural and wonderful to have a man be the one to ask questions about Me…

    and That opened up everything…

  189.  #190Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 1:27 pm


    Okay, that sounds good. I will stay with that! Thank you!

  190.  #191Lucy on October 4, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    I’m so confused about which thread to post on!

    I have a first date with Doc tomorrow night and I feel nervous about it. I don’t really want to go, and I’m sure he’s not “the one,” but I guess I’ll do it anyway. It will be the first time meeting someone new since my beach date with WH all those weeks ago.

    I really am feeling bad about WH. I have been doing Erika’s idea of going into the obsession 100%. In doing so, I stumbled upon his work website and a big cool photo of him on there that really makes me want to jump into the picture and kiss him!

    On the positive side, going into the “obsession” is helping me clear some unhelpful and limiting beliefs. It is amazing how quickly my thoughts go down a pre-programmed path — and I am changing that. Asking, “what if . . . THIS is true, instead of what my mind goes to by default . . .?” has been eye-opening.

    I am also feeling grateful for my continuing friendship with TN man. He is truly one-of-a-kind, a crazy, fun, funny, smart, wise, deep, sexy, loving man, and I feel so glad to be connected with him. He lifts my spirits when I am feeling blue, and I can feel his love for me.

    Oh, and last night I had a dream with my “the one” in it! I knew it was my man, and that it was prophetic. He was wonderful . . . just like I described TN man above . . . and it felt so good to be with him. I hope he shows up really soon!!!

  191.  #192Brenda on October 4, 2010 at 8:00 pm


    That is awesome about your prophetic dream!!! I had a comparable experience with Ryan. I hold onto that, because I was taught to hold on to your last sure word from God, no matter how things look. I feel confused where to post, too, but I think I am going to follow Sweetpea and just post on the newest one, even tho it is about relationship coaches.

    Did you see what Erika wrote near the end of the long thread, #1012 ff?! What do you think/feel? 🙂

  192.  #193BarbinOz on October 5, 2010 at 2:21 am

    Wow ladies I too had a dream about a man in my past last night…….must be something to do with the moon or something. This was a man who told me I was The Love Of His Life……….but circumstances means he is not here in my life and I am……………

    Well the Ferry guy has read and deleted my email on POF……… I have another (G2) on the paid dating site, will probably meet up next weekend……….I never heard back from G1 but thats OK we just had no chemistry at all between us and I didn’t expect him to contact me……….these kind of CD guys are the easy ones, its the more difficult I am into YOU types I am so afraid of meeting. I do know I have an addictive personality and am sooo afraid of it, just had passing thoughts tonight when driving home from work that it would be so much easier to shield myself and snuggle up into my own cosy singledom world where I can just be me, and do my own thing……..

  193.  #194Brenda on October 6, 2010 at 10:12 am

    I want to change my life and be the best me I can be. I just want the process to go faster.

  194.  #195Renee on October 6, 2010 at 10:31 am

    On the issue of men talking about their feelings…I think it’s a good thing, actually. I adore the fact that Blondie is so open with his feelings about me and our relationship and the world in general. He likes it when, on occasion, I ask him “what”? in reply to a quizzical look he has on his face and he seems to genuinely enjoy talking about “us” and the “relationship”…I do usually let him bring it up though. I can totally see where prompting a man who isn’t comfortable talking about his feelings would be off-putting, but I think you have to take it on a case-by-case basis, you know?

    Some men, my ex-bf Chad, for example, will not continue to date women who don’t ask him at least a few questions about himself (basic things about work, parents, kids, etc.). He says he feels a woman is too self-absorbed if she’s not curious enough about him to ask, and Blondie said something similar yesterday when I started asking him about his job. He was happy that I seemed to be taking an interest in his work and actually said that he wondered when I was going to ask him more about the details of what he did. He quickly clarified that he didn’t mean that as a criticism or anything, he just realized we hadn’t talked about his work much whereas he’s always asking about mine.

    Maybe it’s just me, but I like the combination of masculine/feminine energy I see in Blondie…he’s definitely the one who pursues — initiating 90% of the txts, calls and all the dates — but he’s feminine enough to be in touch with his emotions and I like that. But everyone has their own preferences and maybe one of you would feel uncomfortable hearing a man gush about his feelings.

  195.  #196Renee on October 6, 2010 at 10:33 am

    I wanted to clarify that Blondie didn’t remark that “we hadn’t talked much about his work whereas he frequently asks me about mine”…that was just an observation.

  196.  #197Nikita on October 6, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    Ick 🙂 I do not want to hear about his Feelngs. I want results!!!!! I want action!!!!

    I feel angry listening to a man’s feelings because I feel helpless….

  197.  #198Jacqueline on October 6, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    oooh, Nikita – I think that’s what Rori really meant when she said the if we put aside our judgements what can we learn. For me, when they get down to talking abou their feelings – they are at their most open, vulnerable and falling in love moments.

    Might not feel good, but it produces results absolutely!


  198.  #199Nikita on October 6, 2010 at 2:38 pm


  199.  #200Lucy on October 6, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    For what it’s worth, Nikita and Jacqueline, I don’t think you are both talking about the same thing.

    Not sure if I can explain . . . but I have experienced both the yucky “ooh it feels really gross the way he’s talking about his feelings” and the very DIFFERENT experience of a guy being strong yet vulnerable as he shares himself with me and bonds with me.

    It’s a completely different vibe — one feels needy and passive, the other feels vibrant and powerful.

  200.  #201Emily on March 7, 2011 at 8:43 am

    The title of this article spoke volumes to me. I am constantly trying to get over this particular man but I don’t know how to do that. I kept seeing me standing there while he walked away. When I read move past him it gave me a direction. I was able to visualize myself walking down my path seeing him standing there and if hes not willing to walk down my path with me I can simply walk by him leaving him behind as I move forward. It feels so much better seeing him standing there stalled on the side of the road instead of me.

  201.  #202shannon on March 31, 2011 at 9:33 pm

    I fell hopelessly in love with a Christian man I met on a dating service online. We met and had dinner, on several occasions. The day his divorce was final he and I met at a restaurant for the first time. I didn’t know it was final yet, but we were waiting until it was. It has only been a few months, but he and I fell totally in love because we both felt like we had known eachother forever. We BOTH felt like we were just so fun together – laughing all the time, both of us just having fun and laughing – and then he told me he loved me. He told me that I was everything he ever wanted, and he only had felt this way since the beginning of his marriage to his ex 20 yrs ago. Then, 3 wks ago, his ex found out about how happy he was and how sad and lonely she was, she came to his house crying and quoting scriptures. He cried too, and then told me the next day basically what happened. He talked to his pastor, etc and said he had toslow things down and just “think” for awhile. He said he doesn’t know what he wants. He is torn. He doesn’t really want his ex, but she told him everything he needed to hear 8 mths ago. WHAT DO I DO? He said he doesn’t want to hurt me, and yet I keep popping over well 2x now at like 2 in the morning needing him sexually and emotionally. Like you said – I am overfunctioning. So – he texts me every few days, and says have a good day – thinking of you….it’s killing me, I really love him. I can’t get my mind off of him. He promised he didnt want his ex back, but now he’s not sure. HELP!!!!!!
    Torn and Sleepless in Seattle,

  202.  #203Ella on April 3, 2011 at 3:25 pm


    If you have not had a reply posting again from Rori try posting again on the most recent thread. If you use a different name so that it is a first post she should reply.


  203.  #204Ella on May 9, 2011 at 2:40 pm

    Just subscribing to an old post to give me a quick link back to blog without spamming my e-mail with loads of notifications. xxx

  204.  #205T. T. on August 11, 2011 at 3:14 am

    Here ia a copy of what I send to my boy friend…..
    (yes, I know it’s too long & probably smacks of insecurity, feedback on it would be greatly appreciated!!)

    I WROTE:

    I feel cheated….lol
    you got on here at 10pm after I responded to your txt “good night” at 9:30…
    and you didnt leave ME no email or txt msg.
    What’s going on???

    Seriously though, there is still something….
    I still feel bothered & unimportant.
    I’ll try to explain why….

    I am watching as it seems your attention is going
    elsewhere….on what is the question.
    I wouldn’t mind, Im a big girl~~I can handle it,
    if you SAY that is what’s going on & how it is.
    Yes, I know, you’ve said we’ve already talked about it & settled it…and I thought we had to. But, because it is still continuing, it is still bothering me.
    I’ll try to explain…..

    Do you know Im NOT sure how you even feel about me? especially after observing these past two weeks.
    I feel confused. Yes, I said I would not pressure you,
    but I DO require up-front-ness. I know you txt & call
    every day….However, I also notice some changes.

    Are you aware that the distance is making me feel like Im just a casual friend, who you lay once a week with no emotional attachment…. this is how it feels to me. Here it is from my point of view as a woman:

    In our 5 months of knowing each other and being in a relationship with you…. these last 2-3 weeks I have observed big changes…. yes, I know you have given general reasons for why, but you havent given even a general idea of how long this might go on for… you’ve been vague with me.

    However, here it is from my point of view…
    you haven’t cared to want to see me except for Sundays it seems. (4 times a month? that makes it feel like gratuitous sex, just a “lay” like Im a “friend with benefits”). I remember the days when you couldn’t wait to see me, even made efforts to squeeze me in during the days a couple of times, and whenever you could during week nights, you couldn’t see enough of me. What’s changed?
    (IF it has changed ~ but I wouldn’t know, cause you’ve never said.)

    However, in these past few weeks you have more than doubled the amount of time you get on POF….
    more than the past 5 month put together.
    (yes, I know Im on here too, however to my awareness, my amount of time has not changed & has remained consistent for me over the past 5 months, it hasnt changed.) You stated you’re just checking email, which means these past couple weeks there has suddenly been more mail coming in from someone. And this is your business. Just pointing out how things are appearing to
    me from my point of view, and from where I stand, and how its making me feel.

    Now, add to that the fact that, in these last 2-3 weeks, you havent wanted to see me, havent even expressed one word, thought or sentence that you have even wanted to, or have missed me, or want to see me but cant for this or that reason, and have been non-committal about when you are going to be able to see me when I have asked you….
    No more terms of endearments ~ you stopped those a while ago. (yes, I noticed.) And “kid” does NOT qualify as a term of endearment…it is a term used when you dont feel close to or think in a close manner with someone. That’s why your polite formal communications are confusing to me. They convey nothing more than friendship. And there’s
    nothing wrong with that, IF THAT is what it is…..
    Am I mistakenly thinking our relationship is more than what you think it is?? Just what IS our relationship??? Can you tell me?? It appears lately like we’re “activity partners” or friends, but with sex benefits. Is it David?

    Honestly, put it all together from my point of view and WHAT WOULD YOU THINK??? Do you know that I don’t even know how you feel about me David? I honestly don’t know…. especially since these past few wks. Am I just a friend?? I understand if there are legit reasons for the distance & changes of the last 2-3 weeks, but you havent even given me a general time line… I feel like Im just floating with uncertainty for an unknown amount of time. How would all this make you feel? I don’t feel stable or in a steady stable relationship. I also feel unimportant to you.

    Now, add all this together, and if you were in my shoes looking at it all from MY point of view (as it is
    appearing to me), what would YOU think??? HONESTLY, how would it appear to YOU David??? Wouldn’t it appear like I was meeting & or communicating pretty regularly with
    someone else, Or had lost interest, Or wanted space??? Or wanted out, but couldn’t say it.

    This would be fine, IF there was some kind of general time limit to the current state of distance in our relationship (not unknown vagary about how long its gonna go on for), or at least open honest communication that what Ive mentioned above is indeed what is going on. But as it stands, it all makes me feel unwanted, un-cared for, and unimportant. You have not said how long you expect this type of distance (the current state of the relationship) is going to last. you left it all vague and undefined when we talked. I guess that’s part of what still bothering me too.

    I can remember when I first noticed the change….
    During that week you asked me over to stay with you while the kids were gone…remember? That last day & night (it was a Wed) you were moody, treated me differently & impatiently, like you were angry with me (kinda indifferent… like you were angry I was there ~ and I was there at your request), at least that was how it felt…..THAT was when the change began to be noticeable to me….since that night in July
    (yes it was in July!) I have only seen you twice, and
    I haven’t seen any desire in you for my company or that you have even been missing me.

    Now, I am NOT stating that this IS what is going on….
    just typing to express to you HOW it is appearing.
    If you want space, just say so ~ be up front…. because it IS what is happening. Otherwise, Im asking you to be specific, please, for my sake.
    I just needed to be upfront with you about the fact
    that I am still bothered. Something’s NOT right…
    and I am sensing it.

    So what’s going on David? Need space? If not, how long are we looking at for whatever it is that’s interrupting our relationship? You once told me that “body language” speaks…… and your body language has been saying you dont want a relationship, dont want to be close, or that you want something else. I am asking you to be honest, and not to leave me guessing at your “body language”…. I am asking you to speak it.

    It is the counterdiction of your “body language” that has me confused. I have asked alot of questions above, but please clarify.

    Any comments would be welcomed! Thank you!


  205.  #206T. T. on August 11, 2011 at 3:15 am

    Hi everyone ~ I got an angry defensive reply back,
    here it is…..


    things are fine.i cant help it if i dont have money for gas to come see you and my kids are here.but i am getting tired of exsplaining everything i was going to leave you a message last night when you didnt txt me back but you did when i got on so got back not talking to anyone else.if you feel that i am you will have to decide what to sorry my attention is scattered out on other things right now and im trying to get them straight and im hot and tired when i get home.

    This was his answer. Just all a bunch of excuses??? Sure “everything is fine” for HIM ~ and he wasnt the one coming to me, It was / is ME that always went to his house. And Im NOT gonna be the one to do all the work any more!!! he didnt really address any of my specific concerns, did he??? (other than he said he wasnt talking to anyone.) Is he just trying to get me to be the one to leave???? That he is willing to take until Ive had enough & leave??? Our last talk he offered me to “move on” if I felt the need to…. he seemed to ready to let me go. Is there any commitment on his part to me??? Is he unemotionally attached to me??? Is there any thing I can do??? And, if there is, should I do it??? How can one know when its come to the “leaving point”? vs. staying & working on the relationship???
    Thanks, T.T.

  206.  #207Diane on January 8, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    I feel this man/boy that I was dating is hanging on to me and not me ride on. He has a lot of the same qualities as the Bob, Annie is describing. I am so angry with about this. He makes excuses that I am older and that is one of the reasons that he can’t see us in a relationship. It is true that I am older than him but it is also true that he has shown to others that he has feelings for me. I want to be free of him but my mind thinks of him often and when I think of him I also get very angry about the lies he has told me, the way he gets texts from all these other girls or so he says. He makes excuses to contact me and then their I go all over again, liking him and hating him. How do I get past this. I just want to be free of him. I read that comment about getting back on the horse and riding on but I feel that he is about to pull me off the horse, saddle and all. I need help. I want to cry and do quite often but I know this isn’t the person for me or so I think so how do I get my mind to agree with my heart so I can start to heal my heart and move on.

  207.  #208Betty on October 24, 2012 at 8:05 am

    This letter hits very close to home. I have recently purchased and read the ebook after spending 5 years in a yo-yo relationship with a man who has so much emotional trauma that he cannot connect with me consistently. He’s suffered the loss of his sister, wife, and father all between the ages of 18 and 30. He feels alot of guilt, he was a teen when his sister died and they fought alot, he and his wife had prolblems and her death was sudden and unexpected leaving him with two small children, his father died as a result of a brain injury while they were working together and he feels like he should have done more.. He has legitimate reasons to have commitment issues because he is so paralyzed by fear of dealing with everything that has been bottled up inside that we cannot seem to get past the dating stage. He loves me and I don’t doubt that but cannot commit to more than a casual relationship. He is so depressed and it breaks my heart but at the same time I feel like the security blanket he runs back to every couple of weeks yet takes for granted a lot of the time. I feel taken for granted because I fulfill the role of companion, lover, etc and I have a very strong bond with his children, but I can tell it freaks him out and he shuts down or dates other women to avoid feeling too close to me. Therapy and grief counseling is not an option, he absolutely refuses. But, he did recently apologize out of the blue to me after implementing some of your tools that he is sorry he hasn’t given me the relationship I want, that he is f***ed up (his words not mine) and will probably be the one alone when he is 60. Small victory I think.. I am not circular dating, I have a hard time bringing myself to do if because I feel like a hipocrite when all I’ve ever wanted from him is the commitment. Anyway, the tools I’ve used and feeling scripts I’ve created have kept our conversations calm and I feel he really listened to me but I am disappointed that he sees what is happening but is in such a dark place he doesn’t feel like its worth working on himselfe when it will benefit so much more in his life than our relationship. Its like he has gotten so used to being depressed and shut off emotionally that he is content to stay there. I don’t think he is a toxic man but has toxic qualities and its not something I am willing to abandon. My question is, in his fragile state, will my circular dating feel like another loss to him when he says I’m the one person he can be with and talk to and not feel like he has to hide his true feelings? I feel like it may be the key to releasing some of my frustration and/or light the fire under him to see that he does need to work on himself, more so than to teach him a lesson. I would love to know what you think… Thanks Rori!

  208.  #209Rori Raye on October 24, 2012 at 8:54 am

    Betty – Welcome, and I wrote so much back to you about Circular Dating – I made your letter and my answer into a post! Please read everything you can here – Circular Dating is NOT about “dating”! It’s the “Lab” portion of my curriculum. Love, Rori

  209.  #210Nadia on November 8, 2012 at 9:14 am

    I can totally understand this thred. Emotionaly unavaliable men were (I am trying to make it a were) my bread and butter. I would attrack the same type of man. One that was loving in the begining and then quickly turn into this ice burg that I spend so much energy trying to defrost. The tips that I have gotten from the e tool have helped me so much. If he doesn’t have the compacity for having a relationship then I need to believe and know that I deserve someone who can give me everything the whole package. I am currently phasing out a “friend” that fits the bill. He is in a relationship but swears that we have a future and I am the one. Yahhh right he is excatly were he wants to be and that is not with me. So I put him behind me and now am dating guys who can give me everything I deserve. I didn’t cut him out I just phasing him out. To the person who started this thread…be strong and scary will lead to wonderful just enjoy the surprise of it all and believe that you need deserve better and the universe will provide (I really believe that).