Don’t Let “Safe” Make You Sorry in Love

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IMG_0618closerWe are all driven by so many forces within us to make ourselves feel “safe.”

It’s all old stuff.

Old ways of coping with pain and grief, and frustration, and with the message we’ve been handed, over and over and over and over again – that we can’t have what we want.

That, if we even dreamed of having what we want, we’d have to work really, really hard to get it, or luck out in some way, or be blessed by some forces of nature with it.

And even then, we’ve been taught:

“It’s going to be hard to keep what we want.”

“It’s going to be difficult to have forever.”

And that’s just a big, crazy, upside-down lie.

So much of what we get in this life is what we tell ourselves we deserve.

We find things happening  around us the way we’ve told ourselves they’ll happen.

And then we tell ourselves “I told you so…”

Question is: what came first –

What I said to myself – or what happened?

Love, Rori








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  1.  #1Sapphire on July 19, 2015 at 3:01 pm

    Yes and trying to feel safe is what bites us back.

    Mine is over functioning to feel safe and then being seen as controlling and interferring. I dont mean just with my husband.

    What are some of your ways to feel safe?
    What can you do to step outside that safe zone?
    Sapphire x

  2.  #2Femininewoman on July 19, 2015 at 4:07 pm

    Seems like a catch 22.

  3.  #3Liquid Light on July 19, 2015 at 5:14 pm

    I love this post so much.

    So much of what we get in this life is what we tell ourselves we deserve.

    I LOVE this. Thanks Rori!

    I’ve been really thinking along these lines recently. And I keep saying to myself “Challenge limiting beliefs” whenever I feel unhappy or frustrated or angry. (Whichis a lot LOL)

    I try to catch myself with that reminder and see what emerges. Its so interesting and its been helping. Whenever I feel afraid or anxious, I try to remember “Challenge the limiting belief” because I know that there is one there as the root cause.

    Its been helping. Its giving me some courage to deal with my work situation and all the challenges and stress. I’m allowing myself to feel the strain and stress of the unwanted attention of the manager at work. And allowing myself to do whatever I need to do to minimize contact with him. And it doesn’t matter if no one believes me or supports me, what matters is what I believe and feel. And just giving myself permission to feel my feelings – all the fear, anger and sadness – thats been coming up. And then reacting to it so that I can protect myself. I trust myself. I trust my feelings. They don’t lie. The second guessing, the self doubt is what trips me up. So trying to trust how I feel and trust that I will know how to proceed and let those feelings guide me. Its so scary at times because I can’t share this with anyone at work. And can’t get any support there. But its just more of the same since I feel abandoned in so many ways there. So its time for me to come up with a Plan B. And I don’t need to explain myself to anyone!

  4.  #4Tereana on July 19, 2015 at 5:36 pm

    Ooh, a new post! And this is so true. I think about it often…

  5.  #5Millie on July 19, 2015 at 9:57 pm

    So…if I believe in what I want, it will come to me? I attract what I believe? Bad stuff happens because I am afraid it will? People let me down because I expect them to? Is that what I’m hearing??

    It’s kind of ironic that since I took my profile down and decided not to date– I still have men asking me out and messaging me. I wonder if my profile is turned off, how they are seeing me. Then I wonder, if the universe is telling me that I attract men regardless of my attitude. I don’t know. But I’ve already had to tell four men that I don’t want to date right now.

  6.  #6Indigo on July 19, 2015 at 10:42 pm


    “So…if I believe in what I want, it will come to me? I attract what I believe? Bad stuff happens because I am afraid it will? People let me down because I expect them to? Is that what I’m hearing??”

    Personally, no, this is not what I believe. I believe we don’t have control over other people, over how they act and who they are and their good and bad stuff. I also believe we don’t have control over events that happen out in the world. This is not a cause and effect thing for me. However, what I believe is that we can create a space – within ourselves and within our lives – where the things we want have freedom to flow in and flourish. I believe you can cultivate an attitude to life and yourself which magnetises the things you want and your dreams and your heart’s desires, because those things are already inside you, you just have to let them shine out into the world. Bad and undesirable things are always going to happen – no one is exempt from that. But it’s the approach we take to that which says everything about us and determines where our life goes… are we going to let those things break us and make us insecure and bitter? Or are we going to see it for the learning experience it is and use it as a stepping stone to climb even higher?

  7.  #7Mistea1 on July 20, 2015 at 9:55 am

    Tereana, I left a post for you on the last thread which
    addresses this topic. Hope it helps

  8.  #8Allure on July 20, 2015 at 10:45 am

    This weekend was a good one. My partner took me on a movie date and I enjoyed myself very much. I got ut to visit a friend. I felt in a good energy, absorbing and generating.
    I had an amazing talk with my best friend about positive energy and negative energy and how it affects the landscape of our lives.
    It helped clarify for me just exactly how I can feel so confused and feel such turmoil within me and still somehow feel like i’m generating positivity. “bad” or negative events will occur in life. But if I am making a decision to live actively within a calm, gentle, loving energy (or positive energy) those “bad” things don’t have nourishment to take root.

    I also recieved some unique input on what i’m feeling. I want to really chew on it and roll it around and taste it…
    This turmoil, confusion, wanderlust could be a by-product of coming into a very high-level of confidence after a whole life of low-no-level confidence. This rang the bell.
    Of course I have no idea how to live with doubt and fear completely absent from my life. I don’t quite know how to process everything i’m recieving. There is no filter. I have yet to learn how to give myself completely to one person without at least a dim savior projection. Now that I am my sole saviour…How does the *one* man fit into my life. More accurately, how do I place him in my life?
    I feel curious if that makes sense to anyone but me.

    Right now I feel soft. I feel a bit lazy and yet still content to go about the events of my day. Maybe i’ll be a tourist today. That unique, slow paced gaze around and take it all in energy.

  9.  #9Allure on July 20, 2015 at 11:03 am

    I am the sole generator of love for my being.

    Now this is something to focus on.

    Love bubbles up from an inner hot spring.

    Being the sole generator of love for this being means also becoming an adept receptor of love. Because I no longer seek to fill myself with someone elses love for me nor to generate love for myself through their love for me, I need to get really good at recieving it. Really really.
    And then I need to become adept at sensing it. As in…
    How I see, smell, taste, feel the food I eat.
    How I know the energy in the wind. I know that energy down to the very essence of my spirit. It IS me. More than me. I suppose I am its child. It is so abundant and present in stormy weather.
    How I drink the coolness of floating in the ocean. All my life and existence centered, focused right down into the tiniest moments.
    I know this is how love can be for me.

    I am away…Off on the plane of the dreamer. It feels like he today. I feel grateful for the opportunity to live this day.

  10.  #10Allure on July 20, 2015 at 11:05 am

    Feels like *HOME today 🙂
    Lovely lovely.
    Thanks also to me for writing myself into ths gorgeous feeling.

  11.  #11Azure Blu on July 20, 2015 at 11:07 am

    Liquid Light…
    thank you for your warm and encouraging post on the last thread!!!
    It has been so nice this whole weekend receiving LOTS of masculine attention!!

    Even though They didn’t all turn out exactly as I would want
    I am feeling filled up and Happy!!!

    Friday – anniversary date with Spirit…
    we finished our discussion about what happened…
    Yes, he is in love with his ex “But not that much” LOL!!
    I had broken HIS heart too…
    “Let’s just enjoy our anniversary night…” HE kept saying…
    He totally planned a wonderful dinner at a lovely restaurant, we spent the night (I was needing some good s*x) and left abruptly in the morning…when he found out I had a date
    and was going to the LPGA tournament In the big city…
    It felt like GREAT closure for ME!!!
    I realize I will never trust him…
    and don’t even want
    a friendship with him…

    Saturday had an 8 hour 2nd date with T
    had a GREAT time at the LPGA at a beautiful private golf course! Followed around some of the worlds top women golfers… T knows golf so
    he totally helped me understand…
    Met one of T’s good friends…
    Then a yummy dinner at a great restaurant outside on the veranda with him having positive talk about us and the relationship!!! :-))

    then on Sunday a date with D… I had fun…
    we went to many small restaurants in town
    had appetizers and drinks at each one…
    this was our 4th date… we were having a really nice
    time and
    then he started playing
    games with me
    by asking questions that were meant
    to get me to ask questions… he’d ask the same question several times… it was weird… I let it
    go the first time… something about my birthday…
    but it was really HIS birthday yesterday…
    BUT then he did it again with questioning
    where our relationship was going
    and why was I still online…
    BUT what he really wanted was for me to know HE
    was dating???!!!
    I got upset….I was LESS than a Siren and said… I felt like he was creating Drama and I can’t read between the lines… I strive to be authentic and honest
    I appreciate upfront and honest… and then was totally silent the rest of the night.. as I left his car
    he said “I hope we can work this out”

    Rori’s post is a great reminder to keep on MY horse…
    Keep walking on MY bridge…
    and the right man will be able to walk beside me!!

  12.  #12Azure Blu on July 20, 2015 at 11:20 am

    Allure #9
    Ohhhh… I love this!!!

    I am the sole generator of love for my being.
    Love bubbles up from an inner hot spring.

    AND I know why i feel sooo relaxed and happy…

    I have been able to receive LOVE from all these
    wonderful MEN… of course it isn’t perfect…
    BUT they Allll wanted to share their Masculine selves, their heart, soul and feelings with me
    I am appreciative and my heart is filled and overflowing and throbbing with delight!!

  13.  #13Millie on July 20, 2015 at 1:05 pm

    Indigo, yes I totally see what you mean.

  14.  #14Dixie on July 20, 2015 at 1:15 pm

    Sirens, I need help with a script. Portugal has felt freeing and good and given me the necessary distance from things at home that felt triggering.

    But yes, D has expressed interest in seeing me as soon as I return. I know it’s his way of showing that he is “there”.

    Still, before I see him/when I see him, I might need a script. I don’t want to go home to the same feelings, the same situation. Part of me knows I have to CD, but it feels too hard with D still there.

    Draft script needs editing, tweaking. Right now, it’s far too long but I was writing it for me at first. Comments appreciated because it feels so safe to share here. I just don’t know how to end the script.

    “D, I get home on Thursday…. and honestly, I feel so excited to come home to you.

    Something been making feel uneasy and I’ve bern feeling afraid to bring it up. You know I adore you, and how feeling like your girl is the best feeling I’ve had in any relationship, period. No one else makes me feel as strong and light and free as I feel with do. In every way, my heart is yours.

    But its feeling so clear to me that maybe we want different things in the future. D, it would feel so exciting and good and safe to be in a relationship where the possibility of forever was an option.

    This trip, there have been moments when I wanted to burst with excitement and happiness and tell you first, and when something feels off, it’s your voice that calms my storm. When you call me your girl, I feel so wrapped in love that I can’t even find the words.

    All I know is this feeling in my heart that is excited for more closeness with someone, more time with someone, more future dreaming with someone, more laughing, and more sharing. I don’t know what you want, D, but that’s what my heart wants. Something like that makes me light up.

    It pains me to imagine that you might not want the same thing, but you always tell me to not be afraid to speak up.”

    And that Sirens, is where I stopped and burst into tears .

  15.  #15Marie on July 20, 2015 at 1:40 pm

    I find the comment, “so much of what we get in life is what we think we deserve” very interesting. I’ve been chanting it over and over again so I can remember it.

  16.  #16Azure Blu on July 20, 2015 at 2:37 pm

    This is sooo loving and wonderful!!!
    I know some Sirens may say to shorten it…
    but I love it just like it is!!!

  17.  #17Tereana on July 20, 2015 at 2:42 pm

    MisTea1, thank you!

    I think my situation is a little different in that I have not “constantly” fought with my dad over the years. In fact, NEVER, when I was a child. He fought constantly with my mom. But now that I am an adult, and they are not together, I guess I sometimes fill that role for him of being the “nagging woman” he feels put upon by, and triggered by, and all that stuff. At least that’s how I feel


  18.  #18Tereana on July 20, 2015 at 2:58 pm

    Speaking of how I feel, my dad gave me the worst back-handed compliment the other day. Actually, that wasn’t what it was. That’s just what I called it because I couldn’t think of anything better. What it really was, was a toxic nugget of abuse wrapped in a sweet coating of a compliment. That’s what it was.

    He told me I was a good writer.

    Great. Thanks, right? Well, actually…he was telling me that in the context of saying that basically what I was saying about my experience was “making up stories.” He was saying that my take of his actions and hoe they affected me and how they made me feel was entirely a work of fiction. Actually, he didn’t tell me I was a good writer. He said I “should be a writer.” Because I was so good at making up stories.

    I refused to swallow his toxic pill. I’ll lick the coating off, sure. I’ll accept that you may think I’m a good writer. Heck, I already am a writer. He doesn’t have to tell me to be one. But I’m not going to take that abusive crap that tells me my own experience isn’t legitimate or “real.” That’s a big lie. And the whole comment was meant to delegitimize my point of view while asserting power and dominance over my reality.

    My dad is a big abusive misogynist who truly believes that he cares. And he does. But he doesn’t knkw how to not be an abuser, because he’s never even dealt with the myriad ways that he’s been abused himself. And he’s so in denial, that he’ll talk about it while also insisting that it never happened and everything was fine.

    It’s a problem.

    I always thought my mom was the main problem. But I may have to distance myself from my father as well…so sad.

    I’m such a daddy’s girl, too. But Stockholm syndrome is a real thing…

  19.  #19Femininewoman on July 20, 2015 at 3:39 pm

    Dixie I dunno. Some of the things you say kinda seem incongruent to me. Not sure if that is the right expression (incongruent).

    How can you say you adore someone and at the same time say you know you both want different things? It kinda suggests to me that you are not honoring your feelings. Like somewhere you are setting yourself aside to adore this person who does not really adore you.

    “This trip, there have been moments when I wanted to burst with excitement and happiness and tell you first, and when something feels off, it’s your voice that calms my storm.” – here it is not quite clear what you are sharing about or wanting to say. It is like you are mixing two totally unrelated things. Are you?

  20.  #20Happy on July 20, 2015 at 4:31 pm

    I agree that change is possible. It might not be what I had planned, but I learned that pushing myself to change actually made the largest difference in my state of mind.

  21.  #21Linda on July 20, 2015 at 6:32 pm

    Hi ladies.. I have not peeked in here in a few weeks. I have had a summer full of “doing”. Projects galore! I feel so encouraged at the positive momentum in the posts.
    I had this lovely post ready to send and I lost it! Talk about frustrating!

    Indigo… I feel so so delighted for you. The changes in your life are encouraging. It is as if your season of “D” has produced good fruit for you. I totally agree with you coming to know now that you DEFINITELY want easy. Easy is the only thing that will work. I’ll second and third and forth that!

    Azure… I am astounded at the strength you have. Spirit really wasn’t all that, and it feel liberating to read your conclusions. I had some lingering misconceptions about P and it wasnt until I interacted again with him that I able to see more truth and I just did not have any more “what if’s” bouncing around in my heart and head. Sometimes looking again is the best gift you can give yourself no matter what the outcome is.

    Today I have been feeling quite wishful for male companionship that is just right for me and I want it be genuine and real ! I feel somewhat negatively jaded by my experiences but under all that is my little girl inside holding fast to hope that I will find what I have long desired. I have some limiting self beliefs that I need to contend with. Maybe the encouraging momentum I read in some of the posts here will flood in and give me the kick in the pants I need. I have some residual resentment toward men from my past that said they loved and really did not mean it at all.

  22.  #22IamHis on July 20, 2015 at 7:35 pm

    I always feel so scared writing.

    I felt absolute fear and rage and I let myself feel it all. I screamed, I cried, I threw things.

    I convinced myself of a story that I didn’t know was true.

    and I made the choice to drop out…

    Friend zoning. Treating him like everybody else…

    but he is so in tune with me, he listened to the little words I would say…that I was feeling scared…that I missed him…oh I said it so quietly…and not even to him, more to myself…

    and he drove all the way back…because he forgot something…he was saying to someone…

    and he came up behind me and put his arms around me and put his head on my shoulder and just held me for a little bit…

    and then he left again…

  23.  #23Indigo on July 20, 2015 at 10:37 pm

    Hi Linda!

    Oh thank you so much for your words 🙂 “my season of D has produced good fruit for me”. It opened up my eyes to so much, and as painful as it was, brought so much healing and clarity for me. Yes, easy. It’s only been a few weeks but I already look back and think, why did I put up with struggle and difficult?

    I feel so glad that you are ready for male companionship… I know you feel your experiences have affected you negatively, but I think this time you took for yourself to spend with yourself, to be good to yourself, is a wonderful thing and will help you be so much better prepared for the man who is right for you.

  24.  #24Indigo on July 20, 2015 at 10:47 pm


    I love your script and I think it’s beautiful for now.

    If I may make a suggestion – because it was the single biggest thing that helped me – get clear on what you want. Both for now, and for the future. Both the big dream and how that is going to look practically. Then ask him what he wants, and when he sees it happening. And whatever he says, believe him. These simple conversations bring so much clarity. Thinking about it beforehand helps you to see if you are ok with just enjoying the feelings and the good things “for now”, or if you are truly ready for the next level and for a bigger commitment. I think your feeling message script is beautiful, but you might want to consider also being more direct in asking where he sees things going.

    Sorry to use your story as a jumping board for my own, but I found with D he was happy to revel in my good feelings and expand them with me and we would often be able to create this beautiful bubble where I felt on top of the world, but for ME I always pictured it going somewhere, leading to something more committed. He didn’t. Not saying your D is the same, but it’s worth it to find out.

  25.  #25Victoria on July 21, 2015 at 12:26 am

    Dear Dixie,
    I am not familiar with your story and I don’t know why you worry that maybe you and D. don’t want the same things.
    We are not supposed to give advice here, so let me just share my experience. In my experience, men do not need to be asked about their intentions. They will let you know all by themselves, you just need to have your ears open, and to be able to handle the truth.
    Some men just do not like you enough to want forever with you, for whatever reason. Could be because of their relationship with their mother when they were very young, could be they prefer blonde to brunette, or any other thing which has nothing to do with you.
    And, there are men out there who would just be honored and delighted to be allowed to be near you, who would adore you, and would worship the earth you walk on. And, again, this would be not something that you caused, and you might be wondering, how come you are so smitten with me, I did nothing to impress you.
    And, it is the same YOU, either way. The same wonderful lovable amazing you. A man will come who will see you in this way, and you will not have to ask him how he feels, you will never have to ask again.

  26.  #26Millie on July 21, 2015 at 12:39 am

    Ughhh I wish I didn’t miss him. I love myself for giving me alone time. I love myself for giving me time to heal. I love myself for being me…mistakes and all. I hurt because he doesn’t see it..I am not worthy enough to him..That pain feels like knives in my ribs. I want to be worthy. I am worthy. Do I have to be “perfect” to be worthy? Is he worthy of me? Is he worthy of all of this heartache? I have such a hard time discounting him, writing him off…when in fact I love him. I hate myself for that. I shouldn’t love someone who treated me this way. I should want to circular date away in revenge. But I can’t. I want to date when I’m ready. I want to date when I give someone what I would want in return I have no vengeful bone in my body, for I would never want to hurt someone in the manner I have felt. Can I open myself up again? Can I continue to? Can I have faith in men? Can I have faith in relationships? Can I let my guard down and believe that the love I want is out there for my taking/recieving? I cry to think that it is…I want it to find me…to reassure me it is not a lost cause.

  27.  #27Indigo on July 21, 2015 at 1:02 am

    Victoria 23,

    I LOVE this post of yours. This is exactly how it’s been for me with BikeCD. In the space of a couple of weeks he has told me, a) he thinks I am the one, b) he is falling for me, c) he wants to be with me forever, d) he wants to see me everyday, e) he wants to build a house with and for me. I didn’t have to ask him any of this, and he has said all of these things numerous times in different ways.

    Honestly it freaked me out a little in the beginning, but then I realised this is just what men are like when they know what they want, and what they want is you.

  28.  #28Victoria on July 21, 2015 at 1:20 am

    I am so happy for you!
    What you say is so wonderful, so fantastic!
    I am going through something similar, yet I am too supersticious to tell the details, but I am sure you understand me :-).
    I will say just this… I have been in a situation where for years I loved and craved touching a certain man. He was happy and delighted and basked in my love, and would take gladly all the caressing and loving that I poured on him. He even gave back caressing and loving, and he said he really wanted to please me, but I sensed I had to lead and he was happy to follow, and yes, we had the waterwheel of love, but it was running in the other direction, and then I filled him up so much that he would start to give back. He said numerous time that no one loved him before me… that no one has ever treated him so good. And, I enjoyed it so much, it is so wonderful to be giving out love, and I was thinking I am this wonderful genereous loving woman, I produce love, I am love.
    And now, I have met some one, who gives to me the way I used to give. Who has a constant, incessant desire to please me, to caress me, to give to me. I have never seen a man so smitten with me, practically in awe with me, ready to do anything for me. And, it has happened kind of fast, I am a bit reserverd/hesitant where this is going to go. But I know for sure now that it is possible, and that I a very good place to start.

  29.  #29Azure Blu on July 21, 2015 at 9:02 am

    Victoria #26
    Ohhhh… lovely, warm beautiful Siren…
    I feel soooo VERY happy for you…
    This new man is treating you with TLC and adoration…
    YOU soo deserve ALL of this!
    AND you sound open hearted and are receiving and appreciating what he is bringing to you
    This sounds sooo AMAZING!!
    “Who has a constant, incessant desire to please me,
    to caress me,
    to give to me.
    I have never seen a man so smitten with me, practically in awe with me,
    ready to do anything for me.
    And, it has happened kind of fast,”

  30.  #30Azure Blu on July 21, 2015 at 9:06 am

    Indigo #25
    Ohhhh… this is all so Freakin’ Exciting!!!
    I love reading how open you are to all *HIS* giving and adoration…
    :-)) oxoxo

  31.  #31Azure Blu on July 21, 2015 at 9:17 am

    Linda #19
    Ohhh… lovely Siren so wonderful to hear your Siren melody!!

    Thank you for those wonderful words of encouragement!
    I am feeling very full of masculine attention and adoration… I have seen how nervous they feel when it is the first several dates
    and they want to know if I like them as much as they are liking me…
    It feels WONDERFUL!!!
    They seem much more available than Spirit (although this is how he started out also)

    I am practicing being authentic… warm hearted and kind!! and show my interest…
    reading some of Evan M Katz and Mathew Hussey
    I have a BIG tendency to be way too leaned back…
    these two relationship guru’s have helped me show my interest without leaning forward too much
    To keep the energy going BUT not controlling of masculine…
    I am very sensitive, Because of Rori, to make sure they are doing the leading!

  32.  #32Azure Blu on July 21, 2015 at 9:32 am

    Linda #19
    My wish for you is to push forward
    and take advantage of CDing for your
    FREE THERAPY!! :-))
    This can help YOU heal
    the self limiting beliefs… it will push
    YOUR comfort zones… Even if YOU DON”T feel ready!!

    I didn’t want to CD either!!! It is overwhelming and time consuming – and I can get my feelings hurt or hurt others – and I am still in LOVE with Spirit!!!

    BUT I am learning more and more about ME
    and getting more insight into men – so I CAN have the Mr. Right I so deserve!!

    I had a lovely conversation last night with a new CD
    For half the conversation
    i was all in my head…
    and when i realized it
    I found I could *EASILY* guide the convo. into heart and feelings and
    HE loved talking about his past relationships…
    what he is wanting in a committed relationship…
    we both watched the show – “Married at first sight”
    and he talked about such sweet, warm heartfelt insights into why each relationship didn’t or did work!

    When the convo. ended I was SOOOO proud of myself to seeing I was in my “head” and guiding us into speaking from the heart!!!
    BUT I couldn’t have done this if I hadn’t been practicing with these guys!!!

    Go Linda… listen to “Modern Siren” (or whichever one works for you) and stay on this blog
    to get all the support you need!
    We are here for you Girl!!!

  33.  #33Rori Raye on July 21, 2015 at 11:10 am

    Thank you Marie, love Rori

  34.  #34Rori Raye on July 21, 2015 at 11:15 am

    Indigo, I’m totally with you …thank you for your answer to Millie and your lovely laying out of this philosophy… Love Rori

  35.  #35Marie on July 21, 2015 at 1:28 pm

    I am brand new to all of this so bear with me. I am leaning waaaaay back and I am getting no results or is that my answer? Ive made so many mistakes by being over functioning, giving, leaning in etc. Its embarrassing actually.
    He is my neighbor so I do have to see him. I wish I had Rory a while ago. I am trying to make more conscious decisions to do better. I feel drained!

  36.  #36Dixie on July 21, 2015 at 1:58 pm

    Azure Blu,

    Thank you dear Azure for your response. Truthfully, I have a difficult time expressing my needs, and I know D. is super sensitive as well. I do love him, and don’t want to “blame” him or make him the “villain.” This is about me, not him.

    Feminine woman… I value your input! As for the feeling of “adoring” someone, I use that word to refer to that wave of tenderness and warmth I feel for my closest . As in, I adore my sweet niece, I adore my darling parents, and I adore and
    appreciate D. for all his qualities. But yes, he has expressed his tender feelings for me, and often tells me how much he loves me, so that’s not in doubt.

    Indigo… Yes, yes, your situation with your D resonated so much with me. Thank you for that insight into clarifying what I want, and what that would look like. Yes, it feels like a happy bubble (perfect image!) but that no longer is enough. …

    Victoria… Yes, I agree with all you’ve said! But as Indigo mentioned, it feels like a bubble. When we started seeing each other, no one was more stunned than me. And the past few years, I’ve felt so loved and supported on the whole. And desired and cherished. That’s what makes this feel difficult. I don’t doubt his feelings for me, but if this is all that he wants….

    Today, he emailed me – I was feeling a little homesick yesterday- and said he can’t wait till his girl gets come so he can hear all my travel stories. I want to be able to express myself authentically.


  37.  #37Dominique on July 21, 2015 at 2:42 pm

    Marie – 35 – A big part of leaning back, the most important piece, is your energy. You want to pour all of that on him energy, any what is he thinking/feeling/doing thoughts as well, onto and into you. This is about filling your life up with activities and people which make you smile and feel good, yet keeping your heart soft, open, and curious.

    IF this is the man for you, he will feel the release in pressure, and he will come towards you.

    If he doesn’t, then yes you have your answer.


  38.  #38Kim on July 21, 2015 at 2:50 pm

    Indigo and Victoria…I SO love your updates. I feel so happy for you both…and even though maybe early days, just freaking enjoy and bask in it…this is what you deserve and no less. This is how easy it is with the right man….yay!
    I feel excited for you both!
    I also feel excited as to what a ray of light your experiences must provide to everyone who is now stuck on a man and working hard to get crumbs….very inspirational you two 🙂

  39.  #39Allure on July 21, 2015 at 3:37 pm

    Today I am making up stories, plotting, egging myself into something drastic. I’m thinking about taking all these actions to make something happen. I tell myself but THEN I will “let go” and see where the pieces land. All the while questionin what is the “right thing to do?”. I will only “do the right thing”. I weigh the pros and cons. On the surface…But really i’m just giving extra credit to whatever option adds some dam spice to my life.
    I am an adept self manipulator. Manipulating myself into manipulating my relationship.
    I’m onto it.
    So now my intention is to start a new process. It gives me a little extra control-over myself- without any possibility of manipulating the situation.
    No idea if there will be any outcome. Take it as it comes. Perfect.

    Seems i’m feeling irritation with the do nothing approach. I dunno…I wonder what gap i’m feeling. What is the emptiness I am eager to fill? I do genuinely want to bring it up except that I’m not sure I can even. I feel emptyness inside and I can no loger use a man to fill it…
    How do I say that? I just can’t.
    Tell myself I’m just trying to figure it out without turning our lives upside down.

  40.  #40Liquid Light on July 21, 2015 at 3:54 pm

    Allure, What comes to mind is “abundance”. Your heart is yearning for adventure but I sense there is fear there… What will happen to my relationship?

    But if you think about how abundant the universe is then you will realize you can have your cake and eat it too. You can experience your adventures, whatever they may be, then when they are over, your relationship will still be there or another one with a new man will be there to take its place. This is the way that it is because it is the way of the universe – all you have to do is believe in its abundance!

  41.  #41Allure on July 21, 2015 at 3:57 pm

    I am miles away from my truth. One day at a time. Each day is its own entity, with its own energy and personality.

  42.  #42Marie on July 21, 2015 at 4:37 pm

    Thank you for responding. I feel like I have been doing this because I do not text, drive by, seek him out etc. Its tempting at times but not at other times. I live my own life. Hang with friends, go to work, exercise etc but when I am alone in my head I want him to contact me. For some reason I have a need to win. I am the one that stopped everything in a bit of a dramatic way so he may be waiting for me to make a move but I will not.
    I want to learn.

  43.  #43Mandy on July 21, 2015 at 6:15 pm

    Just an update…

    I am currently planning my escape from J.

    I’d LOVE to hear your breakup stories of when you have dumped a man. It will be enriching information for me…please do share if you feel like it…

    My plan that I have very roughly sketched out is that my parents will be on standby and we’re letting J’s parents know beforehand what’s happening so that nothing can happen that would endanger me…he is a volatile guy when he is hurt and he could possibly pull something volatile so I need protocol in place…I am not dealing with a normal person, I’m dealing with a toxic, manipulative alcoholic so I am scared about what will happen, so I need all the safety net built beforehand i can get.

    I will need you Sirens too when it is all said and done.

    I will be asking you questions like what went wrong, why couldn’t he change, why couldn’t he just meet my one little need…and remorse…and grief…and guilt and anger and sadness and remorse will all come up…but I have trust in my fellow Sirens and love them very much…I love you sirens so much…

    I have so much love to give, I know I’ll be okay, I am worried for him, but I know this is the best for him.

    G is annoyed with me stalling on breaking up with him and I don’t like it but I just ignore it, because he doesn’t get to dictate what goes on with me. No one does anymore, ever. I will not let anyone ever again tell me how my life goes. I will be single for a very long while until I figure out how to find a man who’s not EMOTIONALLY CRIPPLED. I don’t know why I am so attracted to the bad boy starving artist tortured soul. I feel I am a tortured soul I suppose so I want someone to share with me my feelings. But I can share my feelings with a good happy masculine man and it will work to my advantage, not just fuel the darkness of a person who’s a little black raincloud!!!!

    I love you all. Stay tuned a bit, I will have more updates 🙂

  44.  #44luzydel on July 21, 2015 at 8:01 pm

    It’s been a while since I come here. I needed some time to test myself. Last guy I dated was in parole because of a domestic issue. I knew it before hand and thought about it, buy went for it anyway. He wasn’t abusive or hurtful, but I had to over function because he had limitations on what he could do. I lowered my standards with this one so much, but it started like an experiment for me and I got a little attached. However when it was over I felt so much weight off me. I felt I didn’t have to put so much work anymore. I also had this gut feeling he was deceiving. Wheew what a relieved!

    That happened because I was in a dating hiatus for over a year. People tend to say “take a break” but taking a break doesn’t teach you, Circular Dating does. Just going on coffee dates with different men, even if nothing happens, Helps keeping standards high. Having options raise standards. So I am going to CD indefinitely.

  45.  #45Millie on July 21, 2015 at 10:45 pm

    Mandy– I feel filled with strength and radiance for you 🙂 Looking forward to hearing how it goes.

    Luzydel–Nice to hear your voice again and also be reminded that we should always circular date, that “breaks” don’t serve us… I’m having a hard time because I feel a huge resistance to dating right now. I’m sure it is fear putting it’s huge arms around me. I guess if I want my forever man to show up, I have to let all the heartbreakers and duds show up too.

  46.  #46Indigo on July 21, 2015 at 11:00 pm

    Azure Blu, thank you so much! 🙂 And well done you! It’s so interesting for me to read that you have a tendency to be too leaned back. I have a tendency to overfunction… not naturally, but because I got sooo used to trying to “make something happen” with D. I realised it had become a habit. Luckily with BikeCD I’ve been able to pull that back pretty quickly because I see it’s so unnecessary. He does all the driving, the giving, the planning, I just have to remember I don’t need to do anything but be warm, open and give back.

    Victoria, I am so happy for you! It feels so wonderful to read what you are experiencing with this new CD and all the options you have. Yes it is all possible 🙂

  47.  #47Indigo on July 21, 2015 at 11:07 pm

    Kim, hi!

    Thank you so much 🙂 You know, I spent a long time before BikeCD, both when I was with D and when I wasn’t, thinking about what it is I wanted in a relationship. How I wanted to feel and how it would look practically.

    One of the things I knew I wanted was to see my man every day. Not necessarily for long, but just to touch base. This was something BikeCD suggested. And now he comes straight over to my place every evening when he’s finished with work and everything he needs to do, and it feels so comfortable and safe. He tells me constantly how relaxed and happy he feels with me. Last night he said “when we have a baby…” and “when we live together…” and it didn’t freak me out. This is how it can be with a really good man.

    Kim, I’ve really learnt a lot from your experiences too, so thank you so much!

  48.  #48Indigo on July 21, 2015 at 11:11 pm


    I don’t know if you feel open to telling us more of your story so we can help?

    What Dominique says is so true. Remember it’s not only not initiating contact that you have to be careful, you also want to try and be leaned back in your thoughts and energy, just keep the focus on you and off him. Another great way to be leaned back is to Circular Date, whether you go on actual dates with other men or whether you Circular Date the world – be open and curious with all other people you meet, new places, experiences etc.

  49.  #49Indigo on July 21, 2015 at 11:12 pm

    Mandy, we are all here for you!

  50.  #50Victoria on July 22, 2015 at 12:34 am

    Ohhh Kim,
    I really do not like this expression that someone is giving you crumbs.
    It makes me feel defensive, like how come I allowed this to go on for so long.
    I do not see myself as a victim or as a weak person in my relationship with F. I actually enjoyed giving to him, he is very good at taking, at receiving. He has a certain slowness and passiveness about him… and he is very appreciative. I know these are feminine qualities but this is just who he is.
    I still feel love for him, and I fear that I will have to break his heart. I am not 100% sure yet about R., but it seems highly likely that he will make sure I see only him. I can see his determination to claim me, and I have been holding off, but if he continues to be so much giving and planning amazing dates and doing everything he does, I will simply not have the capacity to handle more men, and may just gladly allow myself to have some EASY time (thank you Indigo for my new favorite word).
    F. is coming back on Friday… I have been talking on the phone with him but much less than usual… I decided not to tell him anything yet about the change in my feelings, as I do not want to spoil his trip or put the horse before the cart. I find myself wishing that he would still stay away for a while, that I would not have to face him yet. I so do not want to hurt him. I want to make it easy for him to accept the coming break up and I know that will be devastating to him. Oh well.

  51.  #51Kim on July 22, 2015 at 4:13 am

    50 Victoria, sometimes the shoe just doesn’t fit.
    That’s nobody’s fault. Sometimes men can change a little and sometimes they don’t want to.
    I think you expressed to f many times some things you would like different, or felt better if they were different. I believe nothing much changed. You know, if you do decide to go with this new man, F had his chance for a long time to step up and claim you and work on himself – maybe he chose not to, maybe he could just not give more.
    That’s just life and nobody’s ‘fault’…but he didn’t come to the party essentially…don’t feel too ‘bad’ about it…
    I have a guy who is passive too, and therefore I totally get this. He has been very good for me, and has changed a lot…when I expressed things, he has made an effort to change – about making plans etc. And he did.
    He has not stepped up fully, and I have no hesitation to walk away if someone comes along who does and who fits with me. He had two years. I am not saying that I would run with the next best guy, or even date any men, but I am always open to far as I see it, if it happens, we had a nice time and great experiences (not crumbs, no), but maybe something even better is around the corner.
    I am really keeping myself open for my forever man and I will know whether he is or not by his actions.
    The reason why you might go with another man is that F has not shown you this with his actions…so, you know, it’s all fair.
    Sad yes, but he will be fine!
    What would you do if suddenly he started to step up more? As this is also a possibility!

  52.  #52Indigo on July 22, 2015 at 4:18 am


    I know what you mean. My situation with D was different from yours with F, and I look back on it with some feeling of embarrassment or disbelief, like how did I stay with a man with his issues for so long? And how did I stay with a man who didn’t want commitment for so long?

    And yet at the same time, I know exactly why I stayed. And while “crumbs” might be an objectively accurate term for it, it really, really didn’t feel like that to me at the time. The honest truth is that I got an enormous amount out of it, so crumbs isn’t really accurate. In my case it’s hard to put into words. I’m glad I’m out of it, but I can see how necessary it was and I’ll never regret it.

  53.  #53Indigo on July 22, 2015 at 4:31 am

    Ok Sirens, I’m hoping one of you can relate,

    So BikeCD has not put a foot wrong. He makes me feel very safe and loved and cared for. So of course, my insecurities are coming up – I find myself having thoughts like, I’m not beautiful enough, not vivacious enough, that I somehow have to be more something… these voices come and go. These are just my nasty voices right? He tells me constantly how beautiful he finds me and how much he likes me. Can anyone relate to these not-good-enough feelings? Anyone have any suggestions for overcoming them?

  54.  #54Victoria on July 22, 2015 at 5:21 am

    These voices, to the extend I have them, are just a sign of my desire to grow, to develop, to be more, to give more. Also, remember, the human brain always works, you always need to deal with something, at least in your head, so now that the “man” situation is fixed, you need a new problem to work on.
    When I have these voices I do not try to overcome them, but I give them a task or a game plan.
    I make a plan to exercise more (for beauty) and to read new books in my field (for brains). As for more vivacious… I am pretty vivacious anyhow, I actually need to be less vicacious and a better listener.
    All in all, it seems to me you are in need or a creative project, something to channel your creative energy in.

  55.  #55Victoria on July 22, 2015 at 5:38 am

    Thank you so much for your thoughts, it is always very good to talk with you.
    You know I really do not know how I feel about the possibility of F. stepping up.
    First of all, I do not honestly think he can. I think he has given me all that he has in him. I do not think he will be able to give more to the next woman. At least not today or in the next months. This is just a gut feeling I have.
    I also think he will be just heart broken and depressed if I leave him… He is so phlegmatic, I could see him getting really sick and paralyzed rather than stepping up.
    Last but not least, I do not actually want him to step up. If I could choose, in an ideal world, I would simply wish to be able to leave him without causing him pain. Like, if I could erase his memory of me, so that he would not suffer. I still love him, I hate the thought of hurting him like this.

  56.  #56Susanne Tran on July 22, 2015 at 9:29 am

    Hi Rori Raye,
    I’m Susanne Tran, last time about been a week. I have brought the book and CD from you. My bank account show that you withdrawal the money. But I haven’t received the book and CD yet. Have you send them to me yet?

  57.  #57Millie on July 22, 2015 at 9:30 am


    I can totally relate, although my negative voices weren’t about me as much I thought– he was going to lose interest eventually, that this was too good to be true, that the infatuation would wear off… I hindsight I think Roris post is speaking directly to me on this issue of your negative thoughts coming true. So I would give you your own advice back of creating room in your life for more positivity to come through. Also, romance yourself with facials or pampering always helps make us feel good inside. 🙂

  58.  #58Senior Lady Vibe on July 22, 2015 at 9:36 am

    @53: Indigo says:
    “These are just my nasty voices right? …
    Anyone have any suggestions for overcoming them?”

    “Tell the negative committee that meets inside your head to sit down and shut up.”
    ~Ann Bradford
    –via Lisa Copeland
    findaqualityman dot com

    Note: Lisa Copeland has mentioned she did a guest interview with Rori on one of the Rori CDs. I haven’t heard it; maybe someone else here has.


  59.  #59Femininewoman on July 22, 2015 at 10:43 am

    Re Indigo my favorite go to exercise is mirror work. I stand in the mirror and talk to myself out loud. Talk the opposite to what the NVs say.

  60.  #60Rori Raye on July 22, 2015 at 10:45 am

    Suzanne, I am so sorry and I do not handle these programs …they are handled by a publishing company. They should have sent you an email with all the details and numbers and emails for you to call and write to if you had any problems. If you can’t find that go to the website where you ordered it from and there will be a tab to contact them …they will answer you right away and take care of you … The book is digital and you should’ve been taken to a page to download it instantly… love Rori

  61.  #61Allure on July 22, 2015 at 3:20 pm

    Today I feel angry and sad. I cried a little in my car today. Some tears slipping quietly down my cheeks.
    I judge these feelings as good because it feels soft. Even the angry feelings are not hard or sharp. A low rumbling.
    I feel angry and I can follow that along to a stuckness. The stuckness feels like wheels spinning in mud. I feel revved up deep inside. Not in a physical sense. Feels like a sense of purpose with a kick. There is no knowledge to go with it. I have all this purpose and no sense of where to take it.
    I feel sad.
    Under that I feel helpless. Under that I feel clueless. Under that I feel lost.
    I was feeling so contented. And then something happend and all of a sudden my being changed. I wasn’t practicing active presence at that time and it washed over me with such ease.

    Wow it just went off like a lightbulb…
    I won’t be the leader in a relationship. Beyond not wanting to I simply will not do it. When situations arose that put me in that spotlight I refused. I’m still refusing.
    Not witholding anything. Just not leading. That’s the goal.
    Cept HE isn’t leading either.
    Limbo is what it is. I feel yuck.
    Any anger I feel is just within myself because I feel so stuck and clueless etc etc. I have no object for it.

    Last night I felt turned off.
    No s e x, thanks.
    Right now I feel like backing out. I feel
    panic. Pounding heart, hot chest, ringing in my ears.
    I felt it dissipate.
    A panic attack huh. Ok then.
    This is quite a soup.

  62.  #62Allure on July 22, 2015 at 3:23 pm

    Wow I spent an hour on that post. I don’t want to be in the soup anymore. I’ll nap. 🙂

  63.  #63Emerson on July 22, 2015 at 8:06 pm

    (((Allure))) #61
    I am sorry you are hurting…
    It feels interesting to read your feelings written here, and it helps me because it is a reminder to stay in touch with my raw & honest feelings….
    It resonates with me what you said about feeling angry but at the same time it feels soft…perhaps I’ve felt that way too and not identified it that way. I like the way you expressed it.

    Thank you for sharing about your experience…

  64.  #64Emerson on July 22, 2015 at 8:10 pm

    #59 FW I love this idea!! 🙂

    Hi !! 🙂

    Sirens and Rori, I was just thinking about one of the tools this morning and how now it’s just part of my natural routine….smiling at myself in the mirror! Or when I catch my reflection anywhere I go! I smile at myself! I was thinking about Rori this morning and how thankful I am for knowing these “tools”…

  65.  #65Emerson on July 22, 2015 at 8:25 pm

    By the way I love what Rori has to say on this post…I really believe it.

    It feels refreshing to be reminded….

    It feels positive and I feel open….

    I feel like my eyes are wide open….

    I know exactly what she’s talking about with the “I told you so….”

    I feel inspired to change some things about my beliefs….and I need to make a vision board….

  66.  #66Mandy on July 22, 2015 at 8:46 pm

    I feel so juicy girls!

    I have two circular dates now, not just one. I forgot what it was like oh thank goodness Rori and Dominique convinced me it was going to be okay. These men keep me sane and satisfied. I don’t have to ask for anything from them they just do things, such as cook me dinner, text/call, offer affection, tell me I’m beautiful, that I look good and healthy and hot.

    I can feel what they say to me inside my body. I can feel my skin feeling all soft and lovely, my curves and my breasts very well defining my femininity, and I just feel so glorious in my body…it’s the best feeling ever. I also found out I’m vitamin D deficient, so I started a supplement and was able to get off anti-depressants (vitamin d deficiency is linked to depression, not saying all depression comes from it, but it is one cause, and I avoid the sun like the plague, because of skin cancer fears, as I am very fair, and the sun gives you a good majority of your vitamin d, so after I’d gotten off the sleeping pills and got out in the sun and got some vitamin d, I just have been feeling great, even if my body doesn’t feel skinny or perky persay,
    some days I have water weight on but it doesn’t stop me from feeling pretty and cute and flirty around these awesome guys,

    I just love awesome guys. I really love awesome men. Can’t get enough of them, they are just so helpful, resourceful, caring, approachable, attractive and interesting…that’s where I’m totally a people person. Good people always make me feel very, very happy.

    That’s why i come here, I love the Sirens, too. I know we have our moments where we may not feel on top of our game, but when we realize we’ve been on top and always have all along, we realize we don’t need to worry about it, and we totally rock it.

    One thing I don’t want to see again is me being in a situation where I am unable topfeel this way, or the feeling is fleeting, or I only get it once in a blue moon. I deserve to feel this way indefinitely. I deserve to be happy always. I know it’s nearly impossible to literally be happy all the time but I deserve as much happiness as possible. Why wouldn’t I? I’m a wonderful human being and a strong woman. I am my own rock star, my own songbird, my own diva…I feel myself being a fan of myself, but not so much I’m narcissistic. A healthy dose of being my own fan, not a dose that will make my head blow up like a balloon, lol.

    I wasn’t always so open to it, but I LOVE BEING A HUGE FAN OF ME! 😀 I love letting myself have some self-love, and not feeling guilty about it. It really feels great. I suppose when I was young I thought things were black and white and to be full of yourself is the worst thing to ever ever be, and so I never gave myself any attention and stayed as humble as possible. Well, it turns out to survive and flourish, I need to give to me, and sometimes it feels selfish, but right now, I don’t feel it is selfish at all I feel wonderful.

    Anyone ever have that struggle, where you are so humble you have low self-esteem, or are very afraid of coming off as full of yourself? That has been my problem my whole life. When I was a child I thought I was the best thing since sliced bread and I got hurt for it, so I stopped. Well, I am picking it back up, with a healthy perspective of not being a bitch, but just having more than enough self-love to be able to live happily for myself.

    It is weird that I wrote this because it corresponds directly with the above article by Rori and I hadn’t even read it before I wrote this, but I just read it, and she said that exact thing…what we get is what we feel we deserve.

    What we get is what we feel we deserve!!!!! SO important…

  67.  #67Mandy on July 22, 2015 at 8:49 pm

    Millie and Indigo, Thank you, you two have been incredible to me on this journey, as well as the other Sirens, and I look forward to what you have to say as always, we are so supportive, this is great 🙂

  68.  #68Mandy on July 22, 2015 at 8:50 pm

    PS – nursing a cold…and I have to admit…it’s kinda fun…lol…to have a reason to chill out and relax and stop leaning forward. Having a cold is the PERFECT reason to lean back and be in the feminine…

  69.  #69Indigo on July 23, 2015 at 2:13 am

    Victoria, Millie, Senior Lady Vibe, Feminine Woman,

    Thank you so much for your thoughts and suggestions. Feminine Woman, I loved your suggestion of talking to myself in front of the mirror, and Victoria I loved your suggestion of getting absorbed in a creative project. Millie, your suggestion of self-pampering was great too – in fact I think I am going to take a day off from the man on Saturday to do a treatment for my hair, do a manicure and pedicure etc.

  70.  #70Victoria on July 23, 2015 at 2:45 am

    Why do you have to take a day off the man?
    Is he all over you?
    I am kind of in the same position. I am delighted by all the attention, and by his desire to please me, but I am just not used to this. And also, I am suspicious, that the moment I finally let my guard down and get used to LOTS OF good treatment and attention, he will pull away. Go to his cave or whatever. RRRRRgh.

  71.  #71Indigo on July 23, 2015 at 3:01 am

    Haha Victoria,

    BikeCD is around EVERY DAY. It has been a solid week now of seeing each other every day, he comes over to my place every evening and sleeps over most nights. I am so not used to this either – to be honest with previous boyfriends it was usual to see each other about 3 times a week. With D the amount of time we spent together was all over the place.

    It feels unfamiliar and unusual, but at the same time it feels SO GOOD. I just do not have it in me to fight it. Yesterday it was freezing cold and raining and he texted me asking if he should bring over Chinese food and a bottle of wine. I just love this.

    I will say though that last night I gave way to exactly the same insecurity that you are voicing here… I found myself thinking, Oh my God, I am just going to start enjoying this and getting invested and he is going to pull away from me. A bit scary.

  72.  #72Millie on July 23, 2015 at 6:19 am

    Indigo and Victoria–

    That is a fear of mine as well, the more intense and close M got, the more I wondered how long will this last? He went three months with no pull away and then it happened and it was huge. So Indigo, after reading CC, I think that the pull away is inevitable, it’s how men process their feelings. It seems like you taking a day off for you is a great way to create that space and keep him coming towards you instead of him feeling the need to withdraw from the intensity. Sounds like a great idea! It can feel overwhelming to have all of that attention, even though it feels so amazing!! For me, I was almost scared to overdose on it, to take in too much too quick… In hindsight I wish I could do it all over again..and do it differently.

    I feel scared that men like this..are so few and far between. Well actually, what’s few and far between is finding one of these men that you feel attracted to and want this level of attention from. I feel scared that I won’t find it again. I feel scared to go through this process again only to let myself down, or have history repeat itself. I feel scared to trust how a man acts in the beginning. I almost feel like in the beginning he acts out of infatuation, he’s high, on a drug he hasn’t had before..and when some time passes and he “comes down” from it– the relationship won’t seem so shiny and special anymore. I feel hesitant to date anyone who doesn’t make me feel shiny and special. And deep down, I wonder if I deserve it. I feel cast aside, a toy that a child loved when he first received and then got bored and moved on, just abandoned me in the toy box when I showed signs of imperfection. This is my negative voices of course. Good ol voices.

  73.  #73Victoria on July 23, 2015 at 7:59 am

    it seems to me, the only cure to this insecurity is CDing. Never becoming fully exclusive.
    Now, this might be just my justification that I persoballt find monogamy difficult, bordering impossible.
    There is an old Rori post/video which says something like “Date at least 3, treat them equally, never stop until you have a ring and it makes you happy”.
    The thing is, I don’t necessarily want a ring, but I want to be sure that HE will continue giving me love and affection. I still don’t know what that arrangement will look like, or if it is ever feasible.
    Right now, I just feel so incredibly lucky to have this new man in my life, and quite lucky to have the old man still in… I am a da*m magnet :-).

  74.  #74Dominique on July 23, 2015 at 8:08 am

    Millie – Though you may have read this already, sometimes a reread can feel helpful.

    Love to you.


  75.  #75Senior Lady Vibe on July 23, 2015 at 10:08 am

    @64 Emerson.


    When I see your cute little pink shoe avatar I am reminded of Lana Ebershoff’s blog motto:

    “The right pair of shoes can change your life.”~Cinderella
    lanaindiana.blogspot dot com

    Lana is fond of shoes, especially Chanel and Louboutin but she shops at Target too.

    You can read about a couple of her dating adventures if you scroll down to 2014. She also has a more active vlog @ you tube username lanaindiana.


  76.  #76Senior Lady Vibe on July 23, 2015 at 10:09 am

    @68 Indigo


    Maybe a pair of “Cinderella” shoes would also help…


  77.  #77Azure Blu on July 23, 2015 at 10:29 am

    Indigo… ahhhh darling!
    I do agree with Millie…
    Take Sat. – take some space for you… I’m sensing -YOU need time to process… relax and gather *YOU*
    up and love on you!!!

    I ALWAYS like to pace dating (what naturally happens if your cding more than one)

    Men DO get excited in the beginning… and I believe
    it is up to me…
    to slow them down a bit…
    for MY protection…
    time is the best thing in finding out
    Who THEY are… how I am with them… etc…

    I think part of the misconception is
    That it’s ALWAYS the man that pulls away… BUT
    if they are our mirror…
    When I look back, I have been a part of the whole backing off also!
    I need space… don’t know how to ask for it…
    and most times can’t figure out *I* need it until
    I make it happen in not so good ways.

    Your doing great!

    Don’t get too invested until you know this man!!!
    Your in charge of YOU!!!
    be curious…
    Be NOT so available… NOT to play games but
    Protect YOUR heart!!

  78.  #78Azure Blu on July 23, 2015 at 10:33 am

    Indigo #76
    Sorry… this is ONLY MY HUMBLE OPINION :-))
    Darling Siren!! oxoxoxo

  79.  #79Azure Blu on July 23, 2015 at 10:34 am

    Victoria #72
    AMEN!!! wise siren!

  80.  #80Azure Blu on July 23, 2015 at 10:51 am

    {{{{Mandy #43}}}}
    Wow!! Siren… I’m loving how you have made sure
    you will be safe
    having the support of YOUR family and his family!!

    And how inspiring that you are NOT letting G
    take over your life!!
    You are a BRAVE and courageous Siren Goddess!!
    Yes… continue with us here on Siren Island for MUCH
    Hope your cold is better soon!!

  81.  #81Femininewoman on July 23, 2015 at 10:58 am

    Indigo as far as I am concerned he will do what he wants to do. I’d just tell him about my Saturday plans and see what he comes up with. I have a girlfriend whose husband will take her shopping and to the salons and just hang around in the car or around helping her. He is like such a faithful puppy. He was before they got married. When anyone asks him about it he replies he just loves to do it. Even when she is in a meeting or caught up doing things he can’t help with he will sit around in the car waiting.

  82.  #82Lovergirl on July 23, 2015 at 1:07 pm

    Femininewoman 80-

    That would freak me out. A man that is that needy usually has issues with jealousy, whether he is admitting it or not. I had a brother in law who was like that with his wife. Totally suffocating. He would call her every 5 minutes when she was out with other women and always want to be hanging around. Yuck!

  83.  #83Femininewoman on July 23, 2015 at 1:39 pm

    Well Lovergirl this man is not needy. He is just the type of man who adores his woman and will do anything for her. When she doesn’t want him to he doesn’t. Those two are lovebirds with the type of relationship that most women crave. It is a pleasure to watch them and to hear them talk about their relationship. It is his second marriage and I know he believes he has struck gold with this one. They are inseparable and at the same time very independent.

  84.  #84Linda on July 23, 2015 at 5:20 pm

    Azure. Thanks for you post. I can remember back before when I was circular dating and how great I felt then. I felt vibrant and hopeful. I had felt pretty used up undesirable and “not enough” when my last relationship ended. That man was MILES away from what I wanted in a partner. Then along came P in the CD dating pack.

    I have been reflective about all that. There are times I feel I stayed in that way to long but that is the harsh me wagging my finger at myself. I am going to flip that and say… that I stayed the right amount of time to know without doubt that shutting it down was the right thing for me. Funny he asked for so many chances… so many apologies and nothing changed. You know the story of the little boy that cried “Wolf”… well P is that little boy to me. I don’t believe a thing he says now. If I EVER start hearing from him again… I have this to say… “The way I see it, there is absolutely NO Reason in the world for you to be contacting me, so dont. ” There is nothing there anymore… flatline .

    I have decided something through this…since I have been good care of me….I want a man who will mirror that and is able to take BETTER care of me than I can take care of myself. One who can provide for me BETTER than I can for myself and wants to co-create a relationship that is nurturing and encouraging physically spiritually and emotionally. Now that sounds reallly wonderful.

    Now if I can just find the energy to create another profile…and stick my toe in the water

  85.  #85Millie on July 23, 2015 at 7:24 pm

    Victoria– I am so happy for you 🙂 yay!
    Yes I have heard that Rori quote! Thank you for reminding me of it! I also read a post a long time ago about a woman who CD’d up until receiving a proposal. After she accepted, she had to go call and cancel dates! I can’t imagine doing that. Partly because how do you really know if a man really wants you for you or if he is only pursuing you that hard because he can’t have you all to himself? I wonder, if once the competition is gone, will he still want it? Is that prolonged method of cd’ing only postponing the inevitable? I do want to get married and have a family. I do want an exclusive, monogamous relationship. You bring up a good point though about never really giving your exclusivity away…and I wonder if that even applies to keeping a marriage alive. As much as I want my dreams to come true, I feel incapable of giving them to myself.

  86.  #86Millie on July 23, 2015 at 7:26 pm

    Dominique–thank you! I will re-read!

    Femininewoman– the kind of relationship you described between your friends sounds so wonderful and such a beautiful partnership. It feels safe to me.

  87.  #87Indigo on July 23, 2015 at 10:25 pm

    Azure Blu 76 & 77,

    Thank you, and I appreciate your perspective.

    I don’t want to overthink it though, it feels good now and that’s all I care about…

  88.  #88Indigo on July 23, 2015 at 10:28 pm

    Feminine Woman,

    What you described in 82 sounds great, and I feel like I have the beginnings of that with BikeCD. Of course I’m being careful, especially with getting too invested, but my gut tells me this feels safe. When we are together it is like you described, we are lovebirds.

  89.  #89Indigo on July 23, 2015 at 10:49 pm


    I wanted to say to your post #71, that things really are not as dire as you believe. First of all, I see you doing really well, you have got an awareness that few have attained and it is growing. So this one man let you down, and the insecurity that comes from that is understandable, I feel it too… But I am sure you would not want your next man to taint you with the same brush as other women who have hurt him, so the challenge for you is to keep your heart open and believe that your right man is out there, because he IS.

    Secondly, I identify with you saying that men who would be devoted and loving and that you would ALSO feel attracted to are few and far between. I felt like that too. Invariable men in the past who would hang around me like puppy dogs felt like wet dishrags to me, or had emotional issues. However, all I can say is that absolutely, 100% unexpectedly, BikeCD appeared out of nowhere, and I know it’s early days but he is adoring and available, and he is also tall and muscular and sexy and extremely masculine. He is very strong and focused and take charge and I knew I needed that to feel attracted, and there he was. I remember telling you sirens that I had a dream about this kind of man, and it really felt like reassurance from the Universe that he WAS out there and was looking for me too.

    Another thing I wanted to say to you Millie, is that, yes most men are infatuated and doting in the beginning and of course it’s scary to think it might just be a temporary high. BUT – I believe this is where it’s so beneficial to ask about their relationship history and about what they want for a relationship in terms of commitment and their future. D was in many ways just as adoring as BikeCD in the beginning, but their relationship history is like night and day. BikeCD was in a 9 year relationship which he wanted to lead to forever and marriage, and she left him to pursue further partying overseas. He hasn’t had a relationship beyond dating since because he was looking for the right girl. D on the other hand has never had a proper relationship that went beyond a year and has left a string of short, superficial brokenhearted relationships in his wake. If I had listened to the comments he made about commitment and about his ex-girlfriends too, the writing would have been all over the wall. Anyway, I know better now.

  90.  #90Victoria on July 24, 2015 at 12:16 am

    I am sure you will have a new, wonderful relationship, which will put all your worries and negative thoughts to rest.
    It is only a matter of time. May be you can speed up the process by putting yourself out there in the dating world. I am hesitant to give advice because now I have been on the blog for long enough to know that different things work for different people. I personally have not had a period without a lover/boyfriend in the last 10 years or so, I tend to have two or more at a time. This is not for everyone, but you might be surprised for how many women it is actually quite ok.
    I was worried about myself for a while because of my tendency to be attracted to more than one man at a time, but eventually I learnt to accept me as I am. So, I did not need to be persuaded about CDing – I absolutely love it.

  91.  #91Millie on July 24, 2015 at 12:49 am


    Thank you for your supporting and sweet words. No, I would not want a man to put his past baggage on me, nor do I think it is fair for me to do so. I have to let go and get over this first. I know it isn’t as dire as I feel. I’ve always been a very deeply sensitive person who internalized a lot of things. Things matter a lot to me. I’ve always thought too hard and felt too deep. I struggle with being carefree. People are always telling me to relax. I just don’t understand how others can let things go so easily.

    Regarding asking about past relationships- I completely agree that this is such a good question to ask! and also inquire what they want now and how they feel towards the past. M’s past def sent red flags to me, but I proceeded anyway. He seemed to have trouble communicating and what scared me most is that he stayed in a relationship for a long time when he didn’t want the same things she did…and then just up and left shortly after signing a lease. He seemed indifferent to how angry she was and spoke badly of her. That worried me. But I proceeded anyway. On the other hand, my relationship history is nothing to brag about. I’m almost 29 and never been in anything lasting over 3 months. If I were a quality man, my relationship would give me a huge red flag. I don’t want to be judged on my history, in fact I’d really rather not even share it. So as much as history is really telling about someone, I would still want to give someone a chance to show me who they are today without preconceived notions.

    Victoria–You sound so strong and goddessy! That’s amazing you can juggle multiple men at all times, for the past decade! Being alone is normal to me. I’m never with anyone. My own mom called me a loner. Thanks mom. I hear you on speeding up the process, and I know cd’ing is what I must do. I wish I could meet men out in the world more…I don’t think I could handle the online interaction right now. I admire your ability to constantly be attracting men. You truly are a Man magnet!!!

  92.  #92Victoria on July 24, 2015 at 1:27 am

    Thank you so much, your sweet words make me blush. It is so good when someone calls you a goddess :-).
    Millie, dearest, we are what we choose and what we imagine ourselves to be.
    Among Rori’s tools, I LOVE the ones where I imagine myself as a magnet, and men are just iron shavings coming out from every where. I love also imagining myself as honey, thick slow moving very very sweet. Lately, I am also imagining myself as radiating white light… I am tall, and flying, and I have a long golden gown (Cinderella like, but golden) and I radiate white light.
    You might think I am crazy, but I believe that it is this image of me that attracted R. into my life. I have absolutely no other explanation as to why he appered RIGHT NOW.
    Some time ago, I realized that I had some difficulties in my relationship with me. I found myself to be somewhat critical and somewhat careless with regards to me. At that point I discoverd someone who recommended writing love letters to yourself, and I did it for a few months. The love letters to yourself are like love letters to another person whom you truly love – you say ONLY positive things: you are so pretty, you are so smart, you are so wonderful to others, you have this amazing depth and sensitivity that few are blessed to have etc. The first times it felt awkward, and some times hillarious, when you have to come up with compliments for yourself it can be really funny. So, those work too, but the best tools I have found ever, are Rori’s tools.
    I personally find it hard to recommend online dating because I don’t do it, but I have heard that it works for many people, and something like 25% of marriages nowadays originate from online dating. The other two top places to meet men are work and school, and by school I mean any type of group training.
    So, I believe that you can choose the story of your life like this: I used to be a loner, but now I am curious to meet and get to know new people, men and women, see them for who they are, what they wish for, and seek ways where we connect with each other. I am beautiful, curious and magnetic, and the best is yet to come.

  93.  #93Femininewoman on July 24, 2015 at 6:18 am

    Indigo as far as I am concerned when I see that out in the world between couples it is extremely attractive. It brings back to mind another couple I saw once looking at something in the distance. They were totally into their own world as they were oblivious of the all the people and things going on around them. Nothing is more beautiful to me and it baffles me to think of why anyone would want anything less. I say yayy to you and BikeCd for getting glimmers of how this can create your perfect relationship bubble.

  94.  #94Azure Blu on July 24, 2015 at 6:29 am

    ((((Indigo #87))))
    Lovebirds… Ahhh… sounds soo wonderful…
    I want that too!

  95.  #95Azure Blu on July 24, 2015 at 6:33 am

    Victoria#89!!! Yay you!!!

  96.  #96Tereana on July 25, 2015 at 6:15 am

    Hey, Ladies. I have to say, in a way, my dad is right. And that’s probably why I hate what he said so much. But I also just hate the way he managed to take a compliment and make it into an insult. No wonder I have no real idea what my strengths are, or how to use them. All my best qualities are framed as detractors, and maybe vice versa.

    But also, he’s probably just write about making everything into a narrative. I do do that. And I do it on purpose. I do it literally almost all the time.

    But that’s what you do when you have limited information. That’s probably what we do here. We are probably trying hi stop doing that. Ugh…maybe it’s what my mom called “jumping to conclusions.” And that’s all real and valid. BUT, he used that statement to distract from the real issue at hand. The only “narrative” I deacribed was exactly what happened, that I knew, from my end. It was factual. He denied and negated my experience, and basically invalidated my role as a person. It was, in effect, abusive. I know because it felt so BAD.

    I must expect men to be critical of me. I must expect men to deny me and to devalue me. I must expect me to pay more attention to everything and everyone else than me, because that’s what he does. He’s my example of “how men are.”

    And you know what? He sucks.

    Sorry, dad. I love you. But you pretty much suck right now. And I’m sad about that. And I’m mad, too, because its made it really hard for me to find happiness…

  97.  #97frannie on July 27, 2015 at 10:05 am

    Hi ladies – hope you are all doing well. I have an issue that i’d like your opinion on.

    I met a guy online (Troy) and we connected instantly. We texted and talked on the phone a bunch before we actually met. Our first date was on my birthday (a little more then a week ago) and we went to a concert. We had a really good time. I felt really happy.

    The next day, we talked on the phone in the morning, and he told me he wanted to see me again. I was at my family’s beach house, and invited him to come to the beach with us. This was a big deal for me, as I haven’t had anyone to the beach with my family (and my son) for a long time. Again, we had a really nice day.

    I’ve been using my feeling messages, and I’m not sure if that is the reason he’s being so attentive, or if it’s something else. When leaving the beach house that night, he kept talking about when he could see me again. I was still feeling pretty high from our two dates, so I agreed to see him again on Tuesday night. He is a chef, so he was going to come to my house and make dinner for my son & I.

    Well on Monday, I found out some disturbing news about him. My friend had googled his name, and found out he had been in jail for 4 years. I confronted him about it (he said he knew when my friend said she had something to talk to me about that this was it), and asked why he hadn’t told me first. He SWEARS he was going to tell me on Tuesday when he came over for dinner. He said he didn’t want to tell me in a text (which I can understand), he wanted to tell me in person. He said he wanted me to go out with his first so I could see what he was really like now, that he’s not the same person he was all those years ago.

    It took a few days, but I decided to give him another chance. I really liked him and felt a really good connection with him.

    Fast forward to this past Friday morning. I pulled into the parking lot at work, and one of my co-workers was waiting outside for me. She had wanted to give me a heads up that there was a guy inside waiting for me, with flowers. I couldn’t imagine who it was, since I hadn’t told any of the guys I met online where I worked. I went in, and it was Troy. I felt shocked. I had no idea how he found out where I worked (he said it was on my facebook page and he looked up the address of the company). I felt really excited to be receiving flowers and a cute little book at work. I have never received flowers (let alone in person) at work before.

    After he left, two of my co-workers said they felt like I should be careful because this guy might be a stalker, and that he was coming on really strong. I ignored what they said, as I was still feeling pretty excited, and I didn’t want them to rain on my parade.

    Troy and I work pretty opposite schedules, but all weekend long he was texting me and calling me (tons of messages). I didn’t get back to him right away since I was at the beach and busy with my son and family. He kept talking about wanting to see me again and how he wouldn’t mind driving 3000 miles just to see me for 10 minutes.

    All of this attention feels very flattering, however I’m starting to feel a little smothered. He ended up driving down to see me (we live about an hour away from each other) on Saturday night after he was finished work. We went for a walk on the beach and then laid on a blanket for a while (and fooled around…lol).

    I can tell this guy is REALLY into me, but I’m starting to feel like this is too much too soon. I do like him, but I’m feeling smothered and pressured. Before leaving my house on Saturday night, he asked me if it was too soon for him to ask me to be his girlfriend (he already changed his facebook relationship status to “in a relationship”). I wasn’t really thinking and just blurted out “Yes”, that I would be his girlfriend. Now I’m feeling like it was a mistake.

    We made plans for him to come to my house tonight and make dinner for me & my son, but now I’m not sure I want him to come over. I’m not sure I want him to have my address…what if he just shows up at my house like he did at work last Friday? All of this has happened within the last week. (Our first date was on 7/18/15)

    I don’t know if this is all feeling like too much because I’ve always had to chase after other guys (well I didn’t have to chase them but I did) and I don’t have to chase Troy, or if this guy is just super into me and wants to have a relationship and be married immediately or what. I’m just feeling a little uncomfortable with the pace of everything. I don’t want to hurt this guy’s feelings, but I’m not sure I want him to come over tonight.

    He sent me 8 texts this morning and called 6 times (and left 2 messages) all before I went to work today. He says he sent the texts separately and they just all showed up at once because something is wrong with his phone. He also says he only called twice this morning. I don’t know what to do…

    I want to be in a relationship, but I’d like it to evolve naturally, not feel so rushed. I feel like I’m falling down a rabbit hole. Please help me!!

    Thank you!

  98.  #98Indigo on July 27, 2015 at 10:20 pm


    In my opinion, all that matters here is your feelings. I would definitely say something and slow things down if I was in your shoes. This is also a really great test for a guy to see if he will respect your wishes, your feelings and your pace, rather than only his own.

    I have been in your position before, and all I can tell you is that I have never regretted listening to my feelings and my instincts, but I have often regretted not listening to them.

  99.  #99Frannie on July 28, 2015 at 4:39 am

    Indigo-you are right. It’s about time I listen to my gut and my feelings. Things just didn’t feel right. I tried to explain myself to Troy last night, and he just kept trying to pressure me into seeing him. He thinks my friends are influencing me, but for once it’s all me…listening to my gut. I felt so pressured and like he is a stalker. I feel so glad I didn’t give him my address! I would hate to have him just show up here.

  100.  #100Mandy on July 29, 2015 at 1:16 am

    Hey thanks Azure 🙂 I get the feeling I’ve headed int he right direction 🙂

  101.  #101dauny on July 29, 2015 at 9:25 am

    I just re-read the following article: “He’s Stringing Her Along, She’s Dangerously Addicted To Him – Read How One Woman Can Change All That, Fast,” and I am unsure of how I think and feel about my current relationship choice in light of the information in this article, and on the topic of “fwbs” in general.

    My first perplexity has to do with this issue of being addicted to a man, or the feeling he gives you (me). Second, is the issue of the importance of commitment. Third, is the issue of love.

    I will start with the last, most general, general concern: love. What is it? Well, to me it is a feeling, and for me, it feels the same with every type of person I love: my child, my dog, and my lover. Except with my lover, there is a sexual component, that is absent from the child and dog. I imagine I must have felt this feeling for my parents at one time, and from time to time, friends when they have been close, I have felt that warm feeling inside. That is love, and it has been absent from any long term committed relationship I have ever had, except for a brief period of time (a very, very small percentage of the time of the entire relationship). Do I love my extended family and friends? Well, of course, I just don’t *feel* like with the other three beings I mentioned earlier, except for maybe a brief fleeting moment when they have done something so kind that gratitude conjures up the feeling, and of course, I feel grief if I’ve gotten attached at a particular time to any of them, and they disappear from my life.

    I do not think commitment is love, and if the feeling is not there, at least a good portion of the time, than it is like being committed, and if you’re married, it is like being committed to an institution. It feels like death to me. I’ve been there, done that. I simply do not want to get married or live with a man again because when I have, I have not had the feeling of love any more than I would with a roommate. I love being single. But do I have the capacity and the need for that loving feeling? Yes. Do I ever feel lonely? Right now at this point in my life: never. Of course, I could in the future (feel lonely) when my daughter grows up and moves out. I’m pretty sure that will be lonely and I will feel “grief” which is a feeling I am familiar with.

    This brings me to the phenomenon called “friends with benefits.” I hate that title. Friends are not attracted to one another. If you are attracted and have an intimate and affectionate relationship with someone, you are not friends: you are lovers. Friends are wonderful; they keep you from being lonely and they are your support system, but they are not lovers. Why do people have affairs? They are looking for a lover when they have a friend they are committed to–at least in general, I believe this is the case.

    Now, I will deal with the issue of being addicted to a man. Every single piece of advice that I read, every friend, and all my family (that know about what I’m doing), believes I need to end the relationship I have with a man, which by all object accounts, seems to be based on addiction. I understand the reaction. I would see things the same way as those who care about me do if the situation were reversed. But this leaves me with no one to get advice from–because the advice is always the same: leave him. But, I don’t want to. I want to keep things going exactly as they are with him (or someone like him, if he can be replaced–which according to all friends and family, he is a dime a dozen, but I disagree). I want to have my complete full life, with freedom to go to a movie that I want to see, by myself; to go shopping when I feel like it, to decorate my home they way I like and to eat what and when I want. I don’t want to hear football noises in the background or put up with anyone’s annoying habits or be harassed by someone who finds some of my habits annoying. I like living alone (well, with my daughter). Now, the icing on the cake is that when my daughter is staying over a friends house, or visiting grandparents, or her father, I can go to a bar, get drunk (or not), look hot–and be encouraged to look hot and be appreciated for being hot, with my lover of now 3 years. So what is the problem? I feel wonderful when I’m with him because of his attentiveness. I feel like a woman and I know I make him feel like a man. The problem is that I get scared: scared that he does not feel the way I do because if he did he would commit to me, even though I don’t want it; scared scared that I would have to see him more often to keep him, but if I see him more often the feeling will go away; scared that I won’t find another one who will do the wonderful things he does for me; scared of losing the part of myself that comes out when I’m with him; scared that he is using me; scared that I am being made a fool of–because by all accounts if our relationship is primarily sexual, he does not love me, which to me is simply a feeling, which is the only thing I need from a man, period. And no other man has ever made me have the feeling. Yet, he is a bad boy; bad for me. Even though since I’ve been getting laid properly on a regular basis for three years, I am glowing and I feel alive. But it is not a casual affair to me. I do have loving feelings for him. I don’t want to have sex with anyone else. I tried it once, and it was very disappointing.

    My lover is my heroin; but in Europe heroin is given out to junkies in a controlled manner. They get their fix, but they don’t die of an overdose. What is so wrong with this? Why do I allow societal more’s to turn something beautiful into something degrading.

    There is more to it than that, my bad boy, has done some bad things; but I have it under control (most of the time). I leave him for extended periods of time, and when he begs me to come back, I milk it for all its worth! You never get a husband or someone who “has” you to express so much passion and feel so much desire.

    He has my heart; and I have his, or at least his dick, at least half the time. I want him to stop screwing other girls though.

  102.  #102Dauny on July 29, 2015 at 2:56 pm

    After all of that that I wrote, I know that there is no clear question. I don’t have anybody who can give me advice about keeping my relationship going with this guy because it seems to sort of make people “shut down,” and I don’t blame them. But my question is: how do I keep things going, even if he is my heroin. I have it pretty much under control, but every now and then I get really scared and the way I look at it flips to the way others see it from a conventional point of view. Has anybody ever known anyone in a sort of life-long, off and on again passionate relationship, where there is no formal commitment, but because the two enjoy each other so much, they always come back together? I can think of one, but it was a movie about two closeted gay men: Brokeback Mountain, which is interesting because I find my gay male friends seem to sort of “get” what I’ve got going with my lover. One said: a guy doesn’t stick around for years if there is nothing there…
    My relationships never ended because the men got bored–I got bored! But with this guy, I have to work really hard to keep him from taking me for granted, because he will do that with any woman–perhaps because he is gifted in the sack, they throw themselves at him. I’m not sure. I have to be shrewd and smart and always anticipate when he’s about to pull away, so I can pull away first. It’s not bad, I like it. I just sometimes need advice as to how to deal with him as if he were a husband or boyfriend, even though he isn’t. I’m learning from all this relationship stuff, but I don’t want to get married, I want to keep the feeling going that does not seem to be considered love by a lot of people, and I want him to slowly gravitate toward only having sex with me on a regular basis because it is so much better than with anyone else he does it with, which is what he tells me…and I have no reason to not believe him. He has always been sincere.

  103.  #103Zara on July 30, 2015 at 5:08 am

    Hello Dauny

    Let’s say we use the word dish or the word song instead of sex. A man, or woman, for that matter, has a preferred dish he goes back to very regularly. Because he likes it best. He loves it and would be sad if he was told the dish will not be available to him ever more.
    But give him the same only one dish for ever with no break, and he grows out of it. Because it is only a dish among the infinite possible receipes in this world. He will eat it because he has to take care of his born- with hunger. But he will not enjoy it. Sit and observe how sadness creaps into his eyes.
    Expecting him to refuse any other type of food and flavor is like expecting him to shut himself out of the love Universe has put out there for him to feel healthily balanced.

    A man will have a preferred song that he listens regularly. Take this CD away and he will feel frustrated, his body will be longing for the specific waves sent by that specific music. But play that same only one CD for the rest of his life and observe how he becomes allergic to music and finally breaks the CD into pieces in a desperate attent to find his balance back.

    Now, may a man meet a woman who feeds his soul, there is no one dish or one CD comparaison. She is all the food Universe has put out there for him to feel balanced. She is all harmonies in herself, always music to his soul and never the same for his balance. She is true to herself, allowing herself to morph along with Universe. She has the generosity to share with him all the women she is. She is all the dishes , all the songs, a man will ever be able to eat and to hear. And she is even more. He commits to his own balance when he commits to his own love projected on her. A man ‘in” love commits to himself when he commits to the “love of his life”. Keeping focused on her is a way to keep himself balanced. What he does for her, he does for himself.

    To answer your question, I don’t know a way of forcing a man to commit to a single song or dish. Do we even commit to any specific food or song? Does this sentence even mean anything?

    I don’t know a way of forcing a man to consider a single song as if it was all the songs offered by Universe. Some people do need repeated gestures or sounds and get agitated to say the least when the repetitive element stops. But medical science has names for this.
    A healthy man can not be forced to beleive his soul is being fed when it’s not. I might manipulate him for a while, breaking up and coming back, faking variety, keeping me unbalanced in the process, until he realizes he feels unbalanced himself. I am not all the true women I can be. I am working hard at being A woman, the woman I think he wants. It’s all fake. He feels it, beyound any strategy of mine.

    On the other hand, the good news is I can try to work on myself, to discover all the women in me, all the harmonies I sing. I can experiment letting them free to show up regardless of the man. I can work at making myself balanced through feeling my true feelings and accepting them with compassion and observing their infinite natural morphing. I can try that. And see men popping from unknown places in Universe, irresistibly attracted to me, wanting to commit their soul to my world.

    Even the actual man could be one of them, who knows? Yet it does not matter. There will be enough to chose from, and I might be so busy meeting myself and people who are where I am at, that I might even not want him anymore.


  104.  #104Victoria on July 30, 2015 at 6:18 am

    are you new here?
    If so, it would be best to just read the old posts and the archives, there is so much wisdom, and you can find answers even to questions you did not think to ask.
    If you are not new, it is best to remind you the basics – take your enegy off the man and bring it back to you. Lean back. Circular date. Circular date yourself, the world, your female friends, but best of all, CD at least 3 men. You may keep taking your heroin in between, but it is crucial to do the other stuff.

    Much love to you.

  105.  #105Indigo on July 31, 2015 at 3:28 am

    Hi Dauny,

    I absolutely and 100% identify with your predicament. I was in a relationship like this for years and I felt about it exactly as you do. Everyone told me to leave him and it used to make me nauseous that I couldn’t get open-hearted, objective, non-judgmental feedback from people. And you know what? I don’t regret one moment that I spent with him. I don’t regret the relationship, I don’t regret the feelings, and I don’t regret what I did. Not at all. In fact, I am very happy that it was a part of my life. It expanded me and nourished me and added to my life in a way that I will probably find difficult to ever adequately put into words.

    But I disagree that there is no one you can get advice from. I gravitated towards Dominique (who is a coach here) precisely for this reason – I somehow knew she would not pressurise me to leave him but would let me process, and reflect back to me the truth of what was going on for me and him in a non-judgmental way. I looked for the support I needed in that time, and I found it.

    There is no good and bad, I think, really. There is only what’s good and bad for you, and you alone can determine that, and you alone get to decide what that is. What other people say really doesn’t matter in the final analysis, if you can own the truth that you will do what’s right for you when it is right for you.

    And I adored this man of mine. My love for him was as deep as the ocean, and as wide. And when the time came for me to leave him, it was MY time and I knew it was the right decision for me. And this had nothing to do with “shoulds” and good and bad. It had simply to do with the realisation that I wanted something different for myself than what he was able or willing to give me. I was able to move on because my need for these things surpassed my desire to stay with him. Also because, despite the good things and despite my love for him, the lack of true availability of love and safety and peace was ripping me up inside.

    I hope you find your answers.

  106.  #106Maje on August 2, 2015 at 11:35 am

    Hi Rory
    I have a question… I got your book and all of your programs and I’ve been following your advise and tools… My relationship got much much better… But we have always had the awful situation that he gets upset for whatever arguing and always ends the relationship. I lean back and he always comes forward again. He blames me for starting the conflicts but it is also his overreaction because when he says anything that bothers him I listen and don’t end the relationship. I’ve tried to deliver speeches and feeling messages but it gets worse sometimes. The only thing that works is in fact leaving, leaning back… It has been very painful… He doesn’t stand me beeing angry, not even a bit uncomfortable… We’ve been together for 3 years with many separations… I cannot date other guys… Just can’t… But I’ve been circular dating by myself… I don’t know if I’m not understanding very well how to talk to him… This was my last speech and he got extremely angry:

    I would like to be able to express what I feel
    Even when something bothers me or is not positive.

    I would like to say so without expecting anything from you… Just express it.

    It is important for me to practice to express myself either positive or negative.

    I’m not used to being intimate and I want to get rid of this fear.
    When I get to express what I feel it feels so good. I must dare to do it.

    I don’t want conflicts…. I don’t want to manipulate you. I just want to be intimate.

    Too long? From the head? I texted him this and he just lost it… He was very nasty and ended again the relationship… And I got involved and answered back defensive and erased his number but he contacted me again and then I lost my temper… Started to feel anxious and scared we just had been back…. It has been very difficult to communicate when something is not blissful… What am I doing wrong? Also when do I deliver the speeches? Sometimes I’ve reached out to talk about the problem…. Not a good idea…. Sometimes I’ve have broght it up when everything is nice and it all goes down the tubes saying I want to tell you something that’s been bothering me and he goes aaagh!!

  107.  #107Dauny on August 3, 2015 at 11:00 am

    Thank you Zara, Victoria, and Indigo. Your responses were very meaningful to me.

    Zara, I agree about the same old dish getting old, but I think this is how marriage was to me. I don’t think it applies to this guy. I enjoy the seduction, I’m the dish he craves that is hard to get. I would say, I only see him if he tries hard enough that he comes up with a different approach, just to get me to see him. I don’t want a commitment, I’m afraid of commitment, I am unusual in that way, so I know I am unusual in that way. I feel like this is something positive, and I am myself with him and comfortable in my sexuality and womanly self because I know he won’t criticize or make fun of me. I probably have some kind of intimacy disorder. I think I have a history of shame, going way back to childhood regarding my sexuality.
    I say I don’t want him to see other women, and the thought of it kills me; but on the other hand I am afraid any little change to our dynamic will kill the very thing that we keep alive.

    Victoria, yes I am somewhat familiar with circular dating, and have purchased some of Rori’s programs, actually “love scripts” since my problem seems to be with knowing what to say, as all my relationships have failed and it was not all them–was as much me as it was them. I have 30 years of (3) committed relationships, 2 were marriage. At first, I did not like the idea of circular dating, because I don’t desire to have sex with more than one guy at a time. If I did, I probably would–but being attracted in that way to a man is very rare for me. Now that I realize you aren’t really necessarily supposed to sleep around–just interact with people of all kinds as if you are available (and I actually am, and I actually have enjoyed the idea of being available all these many years since my last divorce, even though I have not dated much and have always had a main squeeze, just the idea that I could makes me feel young and vibrant). I am working on myself, I just seem obsessed with this man on here because that is the issue I am working on which brings me here. I fully intend to give up the heroin as soon as something else comes along, or I get tired of the withdrawals and side effects to the point where I want to go to “rehab” which would mean finally dumping my sweet, cute, loving, but naughty, bad boy.

    Indigo, thank you so much for your empathy and understanding as you know exactly what I’m going through. I am thankful to have him in my life, and don’t regret a thing. When you finally “left” him, did he go willingly, or step up his game? I’ve tried to “leave” him before, and this always happens and he seems to never quite repeat the same unacceptable thing that he did to cause me to shut him out of my life, once he sufficiently convinced me to see him again. He does things now that I wanted him to do in the first year of our “relationship,” things I told him I wanted from him. Such as, I told him in the beginning that all I wanted was one suitable man to have sex with on a regular basis but that I want that man to care about me; and that all he had to do was contact me a couple times a week–a text is fine, just saying hi. In the beginning he did not do what I asked. He did less, which was not much in the first place (not because I thought I deserved little, but because that is all I wanted), and this was disappointing. I learned that they (or at least he) would always give less than expected. Once I “trained” him by going no contact on him enough and for long enough, he began to naturally text me several times a week, but I would only agree to see him about 20% of the times that he tried to get me to go out, and I refused to do a strict booty call–as I learned early on, he would gladly have me drive over for an hour and then leave, if I went along with it. He has learned: he must take me out, he must pay for us (usually just drinks, pool, darts, which is what I enjoy) and he must expect to spend the whole night with me. I will leave when I want to, which is usually sometime in mid-morning. This sounds horrible to most women, I know. But the alternative to me is something I’ve done and it is no fun at all. He is the most unselfish lover I have ever known and he is truly excited to have me on his arm once he gets me to finally go out. If you saw us together, you would think we were in love.

  108.  #108Rori Raye on August 3, 2015 at 4:22 pm

    Make, so sorry, and you are doing absolutely nothing wrong. Your little speeches were fabulous. The problem is your man is not mature enough or simply not able to be a good partner. Please Circular Date with an idea to actually meet a man who’s able to be a good partner for you… Love Rori

  109.  #109Indigo on August 4, 2015 at 2:10 am


    No, he did not step up when I finally left. He accepted it because he absolutely knew, without a shadow of a doubt, that we were at a dead end because he was not capable of doing more.

    I hear what you are saying, I do, and if it works for you that is great. For me though, there is no substitute for having the security of a man who is committed to me.

  110.  #110Dauny on August 4, 2015 at 12:07 pm


    He’s being impossible to deal with. I am sorry and can relate. Sadly, once you really, really leave (meaning every drop of love and attraction for him has dried up), he will “get it.” All the hard work you did will pay off, but you will no longer care. I have been through this several times myself. I really want them to care before I lose the feeling forever, but with somebody as immature as this guy sounds (as my immature guys have been) it seems to be what always happens. Only thing you can do is find someone else to distract you, but you have to be ready. For me, it’s when it is o.v.e.r., and they know it…and then they regret it, but they know there is nothing they can do (but they’ll try anyway–pitiful really). My heart goes out to you. Rori’s circular dating is the answer. You won’t miss missing him. That’s when you know you’ve moved on.

  111.  #111Dauny on August 4, 2015 at 12:12 pm


    Thanks. I know, I know. You are right. When it’s good–when we’re on, it’s wonderful, its never been wonderful with a man I happened to be committed to. It’s hard to let go completely because of fear…I’ll circular date, as long as I don’t have to have sex with them…(of course I don’t “have to” but they all expect it, unless they are gay–I love my gay male friends…they’ve been wonderful). I’ve just gotta stop thinking about this, I’m wearing myself out. I need a break from myself, lol.



  112.  #112Dauny on August 4, 2015 at 1:21 pm


    I just went to Dominique’s site and read an article re. high-end-call-girl. OMG, an ex BF told me this is what I was with my current Lover Dude. He said because I get all fixed up, go out with him and insist that he pay (unlike a FWB, who often is treated like a friend and therefore does not get treated like a “date” which is why I hate the FWB thing), and treat me like a date (or I leave–I have had to do so a few times to keep him “trained”). I was so offended, stating that was not the case because I was emotionally involved. My ex-bf said that call girls and their clients do sometimes get emotionally involved…I said–no way…Anyway, as Dominique describes her research on the topic, these high end call girls are more like “courtesans” with repeat customers. This will sound awful to most women, especially not having read the article, but this is exactly the relationship I have with my lover-dude (except he’s not wealthy and neither am I). He takes me out, and we both look and smell good, and we are each other’s escape. And we are more intimate than intimate has ever been for either of us. He has “regulars,” (which I hate) yet he swears I am his favorite because I am “amazing.” He wants to see me every day, but I only see him about 20% of the times he tries to get me to. I don’t want the relationship to progress and I the other women he dates ultimately all end up bothering him to death because no matter what they say, they want more…even though he is up front and honest with them. I’ve been with him when women have come up and yelled at him, stared at us, called him and texted him knowing he was out with someone else (me). All of this, however, is preferable to me than being in a boring relationship, at this point in my life. Now that everyone is thoroughly confused, I will stop. Sorry, but thanks for pointing me toward dominique (not that she’s all about call girls–was just one article. Very interesting perspective.

  113.  #113Dauny on August 4, 2015 at 1:25 pm

    I mean he pays for everything on the date–he does not pay me…lol. He has tried to get me to pay, as this is common with FWB’s and I won’t do it.

  114.  #114MadameB on August 6, 2015 at 6:42 am

    Why do I always meet/attract men who are not mature enough or not able to be a good partner? It’s always the same – since years. I really try to change it and circular date, but again…
    I’m afraid that it’s me and that I’ll never be ready for love.

    Today I heard this lovely Bjork-Song, that takes the words out of my mouth:

    “5 Years”

    You think you’re denying me of something
    Well I’ve got plenty
    You’re the one who’s missing out
    But you won’t notice
    ‘Til after five years
    If you’ll live that long
    You’ll wake up
    All loveless

    I dare you
    To take me on
    I dare you
    To show me your palms

    I’m so bored with cowards
    That say they want
    Then they can’t handle

    You can’t handle love
    You can’t handle love
    You just can’t handle

    I dare you
    To take me on
    I dare you
    To show me your palms

    What’s so scary ?
    Not a threat in sight
    You just can’t handle
    You can’t handle love

    You can’t handle love, baby
    You can’t handle love
    It’s obvious
    You can’t handle

  115.  #115dauny on August 6, 2015 at 10:55 am

    I’m subscribed to “love scripts” and am in the middle of the program. I have tried to search through the blogs and articles to see where I should post a particular comment or question regarding this category, but I keep finding what looks like old posts–which is fine, but I wanted to post a comment to a more current discussion.

    In regard to the “no girlfriend” speech/script, I realized that I do not want to be a girlfriend. I thought I wanted to be my lover’s girlfriend, but I do not. What I want is to be treated better than a girlfriend. Girlfriends get taken for granted, as do wives. Even through the 3 on and off again years we have been involved, and I said some really crazy things reacting to things he did that upset me, I have never been sure that I want exclusivity–I just cannot stand the idea of him being with anyone else the way he is with me. We have never had “the talk” because I do not want to. What will such a conversation lead to other than changing what is so exciting about our relationship? Anyway, as Rori has said is not to really have the “where do I stand” talk anyway. I do not want to get married, I do not want to co-habitate, I want a lover who loves me, period. And I do not want to get rid of my lover at least not yet. We do not say “I love you.” I said it once, it came out naturally after sex, and it was the most sincere “I love you” I have ever said. He did not say it back, instead he looked sad and concerned. I was drunk, so I acted like a guy does and never brought it up again–so he can wonder if I meant it or not. I will not say it again unless he says it first, but I do not regret it because of the way I handled it, I saved face. I am open to circular dating, I am just not very optimistic about it. It is easier not to.

    With my lover, I essentially want to just keep things going while not allowing him to disrespect me. He has to understand that just because I do not want the conventional things does not mean I am cheap, emotionally, sexually, materialistically. From time to time he has crossed the line into disrespect, but I have consistently pulled away, the only mistake I made was to always text or email him some kind of emotional or scolding message telling him what he did wrong, etc. So he has all this stuff in his head that makes me look like a crazy person.

    The truth is thought that I am (I feel) afraid. I am afraid of commitment, I am afraid of losing myself, I am afraid of being used, I am afraid of being made a fool of. I am not afraid of being alone. I have too many friends, male and female friends to feel lonely.

    When the opportunity comes up again where it feels natural to express how I feel, is it okay to tell him “I feel afraid?” and is it okay to tell him, “I feel better not being a girlfriend” because I want to be treated better than a girlfriend. How do I say this without sounding negative? I have been told I am negative sometimes, so I am aware of how my “reality” can come across. He has never said that I am negative, or needy, or desperate, regardless of all my emotional outbursts. He has never, ever put me down, and I do love him for this at the very least. We have forgiven each other over and over again. I know he is afraid too. He has a background of failed marriages similar to me. I have done this before but never said the “I feel” part. I would just say, “I don’t want this or that.” Now, finally, I must say, we do not live together, we see each other in spurts because I am always keeping him at bay. In the beginning, he was doing that, but I learned how to get there first. And, finally, finally, whether this information matters or not, I am not sure–we had sex within the first 2 hours of meeting after he randomly instant messaged me on-line. It was incredible. I told him up front I was looking for someone, one person, to have sex with on a regular basis that cared about me, and that would just get in touch with me a couple of times a week, to at least just say hello. I will say–he has given me that. But I want just a little bit more…

  116.  #116Azure Blu on August 6, 2015 at 11:07 am

    You can get to the latest posts by…
    going to the top of this page
    on the right hand side
    Under Rori’s programs
    and Recent Posts…
    click on one of our names and it will take you
    to our most current posts
    that’s where we are now!

  117.  #117Victoria on August 7, 2015 at 12:01 am

    I recognize a lot of my own story in what you said, even if not 100%.
    Let me share some of my experiences and how I see your situation through my experience.
    When I first met F. we had a discussion of what I want and I told him I want to fall in love. And, this is what I got, very quickly, I still don’t know whether he gave it to me, or I gave it to myself, but this is exactly what I got.
    Same with you, you told him you want an affair type of lover, and this is what you got. I am not sure whether it is that men work well under instruction, or it is owr own beliefs and wishes to set us up to function only up to a certain level.
    Then, at a certain point in time, I realized that I want to feel loved. I really got to the point that I craved to feel loved, cherished and pampered. And, this is when the universe handed me another man, R., who is totally adoring and lovind and 100% there for me. And, F. became more loving and adoring, and now I have two men wanting to worship me and I don’t want to break anybody’s heart. Be carefull what you wish for.
    On a very pragmatic level, what I learnt from Rori and this blog is not to be critical of the man and not to try to change him and correct him. I leart to praise good behavior and withdraw and lean back in cases of bad behavior/disrespect without saying any critical words. This works like a charm.
    From your words that you want to be treated better than a girlfriend or better that a wife I gather that you want to feel that the man is IN LOVE with you. And I think this is absolutely possible.
    I have personally seen that it is possible to heal yourself, and your relationship, and recreate it to be a celebration of love, if this is what you want for yourself. And I have realized that it is very important to be open minded, authentic with him, and open to the fact that it might be someone else and not him who is capable to give you the love that you want.
    I am so grateful to Rori and this place.

  118.  #118Azure Blu on August 7, 2015 at 5:53 am

    Wow… I just love this!!
    How goddessy and Sirenness this all is!!!
    I so much cherish you here on this blog…
    and all your Siren wisdom and wit!

  119.  #119Heather on August 8, 2015 at 8:27 am

    I have been divorced 5 years and I have met someone that lives an hour drive away. He will be traveling for the 3rd date with me Sunday. This is a small town and there is nothing open on Sundays. Would it be Ok if I hosted him for dinner if he brought his hometown’s famous BBQ and I supplied the veges? Or is it too soon to host. I feel comfortable with him.

  120.  #120Femininewoman on August 8, 2015 at 1:29 pm

    Heather the question is how do you feel about doing it that way?

  121.  #121Heather on August 8, 2015 at 2:03 pm

    Hello, I feel good about it. I really like him and I am starting to feel badly that he is driving here for the 3rd time. I feel like if he were to bring dinner then it would be nice. I really feel like it is time to give back just a little. But maybe not?

  122.  #122Femininewoman on August 8, 2015 at 3:16 pm

    Heather I’d say stop second guessing yourself. There is no reason to feel bad. He is doing what he wants to do. What feels right to him. Choose what feels good to you.

  123.  #123Confused on August 9, 2015 at 6:52 pm

    Rori and ladies I feel confused. My boyfriend who wants to marry me already and I don’t have much to talk about. Rori you mentioned that you can’t connect with a mans heart through the mind. But I love long chats about life, God, my aspirations, thoughts, politics, I love learning and sharing. And not sharing our minds together makes for boring dates. How can I go about this with feminine energy?

  124.  #124Dauny on August 10, 2015 at 10:48 am

    Azure, Thanks! I know how to navigate better now. Victoria,
    Thank you that is wonderful to hear your story about F and R! I would love to have my Lover Dude and a new dude that I am attracted to in love with me at the same time! I know–careful what I wish for, but that is never happened to me before. I have fallen out of love and then had a neglectful guy fall madly and hopelessly in love with me, and totally turn his life around (and end up with someone else which was fine with me because I had moved on and he had chased me with everything he had after it was too late before moving on himself–in one case the ex remarried and is still married to the same woman 25 years later!) It would do wonders for my ego to actually be attracted to two men who were vying for my commitment to them! I saw my lover dude this weekend. We reunited for the first time in 5 months a couple of weeks ago. It was beautiful. This weekend was also beautiful and my hormones are making me feel all lovey dovey, but now I know not to contact him or get needy. I feel good but don’t let the bad creep in. I will be relaxed, because I know he’ll come back indefinitely. I just don’t know if the best he’s got will be good enough (except sexually), and that is what I want the chance to find out about. I’m absolutely open to finding someone else–just fearful and cautious. It is a matter of being attracted to someone being so rare (always has been even at the peak of my own attractiveness). This weekend I put into practice what I have learned from Rori. Also, on another forum which I have subscribed to. I let him talk. I didn’t dominate the conversation–he’s very introverted outside bed. He’ll listen to me all day long and never tell me he’s bored, but not say hardly anything if I let it go that way. This time, I insisted we go out to a different place than his usual choice. We sat relaxed at a table outside, instead of at a bar (which is nice too), and he talked quite a bit, about his past, and just casual stuff. It was sweet. Of course the night ended with a bang–he never disappoints–and apparently I don’t either (at least with him), and I made sure I left him wanting more. I did not insist on cuddling for more than a couple of minutes. And I feel good. I won’t contact him at all…
    Thanks so much to all…I feel at peace. I still have him, and there is hope for him or someone else the universe puts in my path when it is time.

  125.  #125Dauny on August 10, 2015 at 10:54 am


    A boyfriend that wants to marry too soon…that is not a good thing, if you already worry about being bored. Unless there is some religious reason that he wants to get married and he is trying to live his faith…that is admirable in this day and age. It does not sound like you are connected enough to want to marry yet. Let him pursue you, unless you sense there is something really wrong, if so get out quick.

  126.  #126Dauny on August 10, 2015 at 1:24 pm

    I am missing something for a complete understanding about men and sex and emotions. Relationship advice from relationship advisers, in general, is that men do not bond through sex. I usually see this stated in the most strict sense by male experts, dating coaches, or advisers. I am not sure why males have the most harsh. black and white, and cold way of looking at the situation, when it comes to talking about the intentions of other guys. It is frankly, depressing and upsetting, to think that when a man is making love to you, he feels nothing; yet you are expected to commit to a man for life and have sex with him knowing he is just basically a machine. I love Rori’s take on relationship advice because she recognizes complexity, mutability, ambivalence in romantic relationships for both men and women. Some male dating coaches say things like, “we know exactly what we want you for almost immediately–girlfriend or hookup material.” I really have a hard time believing this, except I think that men may have a short memory, and perhaps rewrite history a bit. Perhaps whatever the relationship turns into, they look back and say, “it was love at first sight” or whatever is applicable to how the relationship transpired into fwb, fb, hookup. Another male expert states that men do not bond except through commitment, in particular, marriage. Well, this is, quite frankly, awful news if you don’t want to be married. He states that men feel emotions very intensely during sex, yet, they are detached? So, I really just don’t believe it because it does not make sense. But in Rori’s Love Script Exercises, it states, “For most men, sex is the primary way he can connect emotionally with you. As a man gets older, that may change a bit, but the “Physical” is the place where a man can most easily let go and find how a women he likes will respond to him.” Okay, that is wonderful news. In Rori’s statement, it is in the context of how we should not shut ourselves down during physical intimacy (no matter how short or close to sex) because it is how we connect with a man. Not that we should have sex when we do not want to, but that we should not shut ourselves down with worry about how and when to say no (I think I have this right). But the next paragraph says, “…And for many men, sex has nothing to do with emotional connection – it’s only physical…”
    Do men bond with sex or do they not? I do not understand. What is the missing link here so I can feel better about sexual intimacy in a loving relationship? If I am to believe that he is not bonding, even if it appears and feels to me like we are both bonding, it makes me sad and insecure. Especially afterward. With or without a commitment, it is sad if he is not enjoying the feelings that I am. One time I was on a website where guys were answering a girls question about whether or not they get attached during sex, and whether or not sex = love. The guys (what kind of guys, I don’t know) were mostly mocking her. One guy said, “are you in love with your hand when you j*** ***?” Another response was, no–they are two separate things do not intertwine them. I couldn’t resist, I posted a single comment responding to these comments–“you guys must be horrible in bed.” A lot of women will say they are separate too. I can tell you that I have had sex without loving feelings and it is awful. Having it with some growing closeness makes me want to do it more and as long as it gets more intimate (and I don’t shut down because of something he says or does not say), it gets closer and better because you want to hug and kiss and feel skin on skin. This is not love? I don’t get it. I hope the guys who say those things just do not know how to do it and have no clue what it’s like to be truly intimate, and I wouldn’t want them to begin with.
    Question is: do men bond with sex or don’t they?

  127.  #127Jessie1000 on August 10, 2015 at 6:46 pm

    l didnt visit for a while and just read some of your posts….I think I regressed a bit this year…ugh had an alcoholic boyfriend too not very serious but tereana, your texts hit me hard about falling for someone and knowing I shouldnt.
    I put him in jail now cause He kicked my door in drunk trying to get me to talk to him again…I was out all day and had dumped him a few months before…my door suffered and I hate that he chose violence to try to make me go back with him
    Not very logical? I love u so much I would break in to your home?
    Note to self….dont date alcoholics, even if they are super sexy and the sex chemistry is awesome.
    Note to self….I can do better
    Note to self…Dont get lost in self doubt, get dating
    Note to self….Remember being alone can be very healing as long as its not hiding away from love.
    Note to self…What he chose to do has no reflection on me or myself as a person or that Im lacking.
    Note to self…..Im a star and life is blue without LOVE
    Note to self…I love my self so I dont let this shit happen anymore than once.
    Note to self…I need only my own approval.
    Note to self….I approve of Jessie.
    XOXO Kisses to all u girls, keep on keeping on….

  128.  #128Victoria on August 11, 2015 at 3:52 am

    You pose a very interesting question to which most probably there is not a yes/no answer.
    Medicine states that the hormone that drives se*ual desire in both men and women is testosterone. When it is absent/too low the person simply has no libido. In healthy men the normal testosterone levels are something like 10 times the normal levels for a healthy woman. This means that men have, from a bio-chemical standpoing a much stronger chemical reason/drive. This can of course vary by person, age, general health status, what not, but, all other things held equal, men are like 10 times more interested in s*x than women. To me this mean that for them to desire S*x they DO NOT NEED an emotional connection. That is why they visit prostitutes etc. At the same time, it does not mean that men do not connect to women through the amazing experience they sometimes have with some amazing women.
    Now, as to women, some women say they can have s*x without love, others say they can not. I am personally of the opinion that all women can (just like all women can enjoy masturbation) and that the need for love in women as a prerequisite for s*x is a social construct, the result of centuries of shaming women into this idea.
    Just my 2 cents.

  129.  #129Indigo on August 11, 2015 at 4:49 am


    I personally avoid reading anything written by male dating experts – not because I feel they have nothing to offer, but because I think they are mostly oblivious to how their words and tone come across to women. Some women find it helpful, I do not.

    I think men are at once very simple, in the sense that you can usually tell exactly where you stand with them from their actions, and just as complex as women emotionally. I absolutely feel, no question, that many men feel more bonded and deeply emotionally connected during sex. But I think this depends very much on the man. Men cannot access their true feelings in words the way we can. I believe a large part of our role as women in relationships is to allow them to access this part of themselves. Bottom line for me- trust your emotions and intuition when it comes to sex.

  130.  #130Lovergirl on August 11, 2015 at 10:01 am


    I have always been baffled by that as well, the idea that men do not bond through sex, yet we are told that during a marriage that is a way to keep them bonded. WTF? It makes no sense.

    I would say the truth is that men DO bond through sex but they don’t stay attached through sex, its something else. They are feeling loving and attached but to have a commitment they need something else (I wish I could peg what that is). I would say you could give a man you were married to all the sex in the world and if he was inclined to cheat, he’d still do it. The so called experts that are telling us that is the way to keep a man are mostly men with an agenda- get women to feel obligated to give them lots of sex!

  131.  #131Indigo on August 11, 2015 at 10:47 am

    My experience has been that men who are not inclined to feel bonded to a woman through having sex with her, would not be inclined to feel attached through anything else with her either. And a man who is inclined to fall in love with and want to be with that particular woman, will fall in love with and want to be with her regardless of the fact that they have sex. In other words, I feel many men do feel bonded through sex, but those men also are inclined to feel bonded AND they feel bonded through other things as well… Whereas the men who do not bond through sex are unlikely to bond to you regardless. It’s a commitment-ready man versus a non-committal man, which is why so many dating experts advise you to find out what a man’s intentions/plans are for you before sleeping with him.

    Personally I have felt enormous emotional bonding to certain men during sex, and they felt it too because they told me and I could feel it, so I know men bond this way. On the other hand, I have not bonded to every man I have slept with… not by a long way, so I tend to think it’s a case of sex strengthening the bond that exists already.


    “I would say the truth is that men DO bond through sex but they don’t stay attached through sex, its something else. They are feeling loving and attached but to have a commitment they need something else (I wish I could peg what that is).”

    I would say that what that something is, is safety. A man commits to a woman for two reasons: 1) he is ready and willing to commit, and 2) he feels safe with her. What makes a man feel safe is feeling respected and accepted. If either of those two things is absent, a man will not commit.

  132.  #132Dauny on August 17, 2015 at 1:16 pm

    Victoria, Indigo, Lovergirl…

    Sorry I took so long to read and respond. I appreciate your feedback to my questions.

    Victoria “Now, as to women, some women say they can have s*x without love, others say they can not. I am personally of the opinion that all women can (just like all women can enjoy masturbation) and that the need for love in women as a prerequisite for s*x is a social construct, the result of centuries of shaming women into this idea. Just my 2 cents.” I agree completely that it is a social construct. I think most hangups are socially constructed and deeply embedded in our societal psyche and culture. I have enjoyed sex without loving a man or even liking him that much, maybe once. I just don’t have any desire to go back. I’m kinda repelled once I realize there is nothing there–or they cannot compare to someone else that I have been bonded to. I think guys are the same way in this regard. I don’t think they will want to come back if there is nothing there. I’ve seen it–experienced it–so I know its true. They lose interest even in the sex at some point.
    Lovergirl, you made me realize something when you said, ” I have always been baffled by that as well, the idea that men do not bond through sex, yet we are told that during a marriage that is a way to keep them bonded. WTF? It makes no sense.” I believe that men actually bond more through sex than we do because they can want to come back for it, even though they don’t want a full-blown relationship with a woman. There are plenty of women out there to have sex with, but they will gravitate away from most eventually. Generally speaking–I’m not talking about wealthy famous men who have women throwing themselves at them, like Tiger Woods, etc. I mean just a regular guy, attracting average women. Certainly, a man could be turned on by a woman, and if given the opportunity, would have sex if they have no commitment to anyone. However, if they are emotionally connected to one or maybe two (yuck, I hate to think this, but I’ve met both men and women who said they have had two lovers at one time or another that they had feelings for); I would think the dalliance would be what I call “cold comfort” and even make them realize the grass is not greener on the other side.
    Indigo, yeah, most male dating experts end up making me feel really depressed–so I can have incredible sex with a man who doesn’t love me and wouldn’t marry me, because sex means nothing to him, yet he treats me in a way that makes me want to have sex with him (seduces me); or I can marry a man who loves me, expects me to have sex with him (does not seduce me because he does not have to), but doesn’t make me feel the way the man who doesn’t love me makes me feel…that is what I gather from what I hear from male experts. Though, I have been able to pick and choose advice that makes sense to me.
    Indigo, I would think making a man feel safe is the key to commitment, but in my case, I wasn’t all that kind to the men who committed to me, in hindsight. I have changed and matured in that way though. I do remember one guy who broke my heart back in college though. He told me from the beginning he would never marry me. He would not say exactly why, but from time to time he would say things about not being able to maintain the “fantasy land” that our relationship was, as it was very intense, and that for marriage he was looking more for compatibility. Another BF I who would say that I was the woman for him because he could be himself with me. He said “you get tired of ‘flaring’ all the time.” For me that was a very blah relationship and I eventually left him because he was so comfortable with me, he never wore cologne or acted flirtatious with me. Yet he cheated on me with someone that he would not commit to because he claimed he was “in lust” with her; yet he took showers, brushed his teeth, fixed his hair, shaved, and did not fart in front of her…lucky me. I got the farts. Thanks, but no thanks. So I am wary of the man who I make feel safe…

  133.  #133Dauny on August 17, 2015 at 1:33 pm


    I am sorry to hear about your experiences with an alcoholic. I am super attracted to me who like to drink. Not all men who like to drink of course, but I find them fun, as I have a little bit of a wild thing in me as well. It is too bad that these guys can’t just be fun and charming as they are without the ugly side. So far, I have never had a relationship with a “mean” drunk. My dad drank a lot, but he was not a mean drunk, and neither were my first husband, my long term (ex) BF, and my current lover dude. I am actually unsure of my current lover dude, as I limit the time I spend with him. A man should be in control, and to give us a sense of protection, and somehow partying, risk taking dudes give that sense; but actually its not true. They put us at risk. I’m keeping mine at arms length, though I am very fond of him because he is so much fun. My daughter is my priority. I keep the man separate from my home life. I get together with him when she is at a friend or relative’s house. I think I’m doing the right thing, but I will refer to your list if things get more serious with this guy to remind myself of why I need to keep my love life separate from my home life. Hope that makes sense…