Don’t Pick Up the Slack With a Man

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date-linedrawingHere’s a question I wanted to answer quickly:

“Rori, I was listening to your Heart Connection ToolKit and noticed a lot of mistakes that I am making with men. I tried to start Circular Dating and realized that it is not easy. I met couple of guys online (different days of course) and they both said that I was an amazing woman and they would like to see me again. We went to a museum and to a restaurant and we laughed a lot and everything seemed very nice. One of them sends me emails almost every day, another one called couple of days later and said that he wanted to see me again later this week.

But other than this one time they never call me. And, I see the first one online all the time. Besides that I feel bad that he also sees me there and I thought he was there because he realized that I was online and figured that I did not like him enough? What does it mean when the guy says he likes you a lot and wants to see you, but never calls? I am frustrated and a little discouraged. I began to believe in destiny and that happy ever after is just not for me…Help, please…’frustrated.'”

Here’s my answer:

Men say all kinds of things.

Most of the time they’re trying to be nice guys, and some of the time they don’t even know what they’re feeling.

But ALL of the time…a man SHOWS you who he is and what he wants – and if he doesn’t call you — there is only one reason.

He doesn’t want to.

It’s not because he’s afraid, or any other reason we like to make up — he just doesn’t want to.

That’s why Circular Dating is NOT about finding your man, it’s not a “search” – it’s a Tool to help you grow, heal, and learn as FAST as possible so you can become the “Siren” you are by practicing all my Tools “out in the field” – with real MEN.

To Frustrated: Just keep dating everyone who asks you.

Just keep doing what Targeting Mr. Right lays out for you. Just keep PRACTICING.

Stop trying to guess what a man is thinking. If he calls, he calls. If he doesn’t, he doesn’t.

Don’t worry your “pretty little girl head” about it. Do NOT try to “pick up the slack.”

Just let things go downhill if they’re going downhill.  Don’t rescue, don’t save, don’t jump in to liven things up, don’t try to make him “unboring” by picking up the conversation.

Just let him suffer and stew and stammer and try to figure out what he needs to do.  For HIMSELF.

So – what are YOU doing while he’s stammering and silent?

You’re FEELING.  You’re enjoying the texture of the napkin on your lap, the sound of the music on the loudspeaker, the clatter of dishes, the wallpaper, your fork, your own legs, your own soft clothes, your own soft arm, your lovely nails and hair.  You’re looking in his eyes and expecting that there’s a human being in there – and a human being with a story.

You’re CURIOUS.  He’s showed up, after all.

So, ask yourself why HE showed up – right now, right here?  Ask yourself “Why am I here?” “Why is he here?”

There’s just GOT to be some lesson for you.  He’s a messenger, after all.  Ask yourself – “What’s his message?”

And then ask HIM!

Ask him who he is, what he loves, what made him call you, what he thinks about the world, dating, his family…ask him anything that interests you in the service of finding out what his message is for you.

You can even ask him without asking him – by tilting your head in genuine curiosity and asking yourself where he might have been born and what his mother was like when he was little, and what horrible or amazing things he might have encountered in his life.

Just being curious about the answer he might give is a lovely experience.

Just remember – you’re not asking in order to judge him, or find out if he’s “right” for you, or to keep the conversation going.  You’re just asking because you’re curious, and because you’re only there for an hour (this short-first-date is a Circular Dating rule I encourage you to make for yourself).

You’re just asking because he’s sitting or standing there in front of you (even if he just showed up for a few moments in the supermarket aisle).  You aren’t going to start a conversation, remember (well – we can talk about the possibilities for that in another post), but you can ask the questions in your own head, or ask the questions in response to something he says.

You’re asking because he has a message for you.

Maybe you’ll discover that underneath the quiet guy is a deep soul…and that he’s actually capable of a deeper CONNECTION with you than you’ve ever before experienced.  It was just something you couldn’t SEE right away.  You had to get to know him.

Maybe you’ll discover he’s waving the same red flags as all the other red-flag-waving men in your life before him…and maybe he’s here as the very LAST in that line.  You may feel GRATEFUL for THAT message!

Maybe you’ll discover he’s devastatingly handsome and sexy, but has nothing for YOU, and so you’ll have to learn to separate those two charged feelings – Chemistry on the one hand, and Connection on the other.

Maybe this is your chance to choose generosity, connection, the ability to give to you – over chemistry.

There’s a lot to get from even the most unremarkable interaction with a man.

Try Circular Dating this way…and let me know what you discover,

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Mary on December 17, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    Hi Rori. I love this post.

    This uncomfortable silent thing happened to me on Saturday night. We ate Chinese food in silence, then he said he wanted to take me out for drinks later. When we sat down in a very upscale hotel bar, he immediately picked two lounge chairs and moved them so they were both facing the view. “So we don’t have to stare at each other if we don’t have anything to say,” he explained. He went on to tell me that he just really enjoyed my company, whether we said anything to each other or not.
    And I was fine with that. The view and the wine combined to make a beautiful experience, and the silence over dinner was forgotten. (until now!)

  2.  #2Angeline on December 17, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    I feel so frustrated and it ties in with this post. I exchanged one or two emails with this guy, then waited a week or so to reply to his latest. His response is one line: “What’s up with the delayed response?” That’s rude, right? What claim does he have to me or my emails?!

    Also, if a woman did that, the guy would go around talking about what a psycho she is. Talk me down if I’m wrong about this, please.

    I don’t want to be so angry with men. I’ve got baggage with doing too much and taking care of and leading and guiding and always feeling like the wrong one. I even went to couples counseling with the last one, and the counselor let him dominate our last break up session with talk of how I was just depressed and crazy. Then the ex proceeded to get fired, go manic, and leave the country with $0.00 in his bank account after our break up. Meanwhile I’m thriving and happy.

    So it’s triggering. I don’t ever want to play that part again. I don’t ever want to be the one keeping someone sane again. I feel rageful.

  3.  #3alias girl on December 17, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    mary i would feel happy to be wtih a man where we just enjoyed each other’s presecnce. i mean i feel appreciative of the fun and sometimes neccesity of talking— i personally do not want chatter chatter chatter all the time.

    although in the past i used to pick the slack in a conversation with anyone, man or woman.

    i don’t anymore. and sometimes i can feel the men almost shocked into having to row.

    i don’t take it personally and i don’t mind the awkwardness anymore.

  4.  #4Callista on December 17, 2009 at 6:58 pm

    I know you’ve had several posts dealing with how to figure out the message, but I can’t seem to find more than a couple right now. Are they under a specific category? I have trouble trying to identify the message, and I feel afraid to make a wrong interpretation (or no interpretation). 🙂

  5.  #5Mary on December 17, 2009 at 8:00 pm

    hi AG…

    Thanks for the thoughts my way. We do enjoy each other! And we don’t need to be talking all the time. I’m not sure where we’re going but we’re still seeing each other. He just called. Since I went off by myself (to study – in the rain), he went off by himself (to ski – in the snow). Which one would you rather do? And how would you feel if the man you loved just went skiing by himself? (I can see him in the line – “Single?” – with his big smile…) A little worried… but not terribly, as I’m working on my own stuff right now, and it’s tedious but necessary. Can’t wait to be done with my real estate test. I will ski again one day, too… it makes me happy to think about it. Ohhhhhh… back to work!

    You know, when I’m focused on ACCOMPLISHING something, I’m much less worried about him.

    I’ve decided to just go ahead and blog as it’s my one distraction that allows me to talk about My Guy. As with tragedies, friends get tired of hearing about the little daily things happening…

  6.  #6Linda on December 17, 2009 at 8:00 pm

    The more I read and experience the better I feel about dating. I absolutely love the fact that Rori just splays it out there, not mincing any words. That is my kind of communication.

    The reason he doesnt call is … he doesnt want to.

    This simplifies my life. No more of the head games used to I play endlsessly with myself. (bad habit)…. No more. These are my rules…

    1) Pay attention to action, not words,
    2) Stay in touch with how I feel about things happening around ME.
    3) listening to what he says and his attidudes toward old loves, his family is VERY revealing as to what his issues are….and what baggage he is carrying and how he solves problems or not. Listening is the single most important tool of all in my opinion.
    4) I know this sounds weird.. but I look at their shoes too. A mans shoes says sooo much about him. LOL

    I am going to become more mindful of asking questions, not for the sake of interviewing… but simply out of curiosity. Good skill to practice and perfect. Thanks Rori…


  7.  #7Simply Shannon on December 17, 2009 at 8:09 pm

    I needed this tonight. I actually had some good practice with a man tonight. He was a handsome, nice guy. No fireworks or anything, but I could just tell something was off. He kept checking his phone (blech – claiming he was waiting on a text from his son, which might be true – still felt annoyed) and then said he had to go somewhere. And I’m sitting there in disbelief that this guy isn’t interested in me. I believe this is a first for me to actually feel it on a date. And so I said to him “I feel brushed off. It’s okay if you aren’t interested in me but I don’t want to feel brushed off.” And we had some interesting conversation after that. I got caught up in a couple of red flags (basically lied about where he was going, but then told the truth once I said I felt brushed off). It felt weird to say exactly what I felt and then it kind of changed things for him. I don’t know what his message was for me. I feel unsure if I really care. And maybe that’s the message. Sometimes it’s just a date. Sometimes it’s just spending time with another person and hearing their story. No ties, no long term commitment, no “trying” to get his interest. Just being there.

    And I love, love, love the questions that are listed. The curiosity stuff. I like that a lot! It reminds me just to see other people as a boy or a girl. Some of the questions on dates can be so tedious and boring. It feels so non-important, like we’re just filling the spaces. I’m going to steal these questions! I might put some of them in my phone just to remind me! 😉

  8.  #8alias girl on December 17, 2009 at 9:16 pm

    i feel strong and wise
    and loving
    i feel very competent and able.

    i feel assured. i feel full of faith and enthusiasm.


    i also feel goddessey.

    i feel excited about dates with men i feel interested in who send me energy and they are rowing and gentlemanly and romantic and yummy.

    i feel excited about my future adventures.

    i feel satisfied with my now.

    i feel good about me and my now.


  9.  #9Daria on December 17, 2009 at 9:19 pm

    I feel a little confused. I guess because in my leaning back ness I practiced not asking hte guy questions about himself.

    So i feel a little confused between when im being curious and when i am conversing.

    What if im curious and theres not a lot of sexy pauses?

    what if he talks all about himself

    should i Ask myself… what do i feel curious about? or is that already making an Effort and not real curiosity


  10.  #10Daria on December 17, 2009 at 9:33 pm

    im not gonna worry my pretty lil head about it

  11.  #11Tina on December 17, 2009 at 9:51 pm

    My Christmas tree fell over and most of my glass bulbs busted, I was writing something down, sitting at the kitchen table then SMASH! I almost had a moment where I was going to start crying considering all my other drama, I called my mom and had to wait a few minutes to dial her number to tell her Christmas is ruined! My son almost cried, he had to collect himself too. So I am now sitting at my computer and the saved bulbs are on one side and the smashed on the other.

    I was feeling really angry about Christmas anyway, I feel like Im a victim of Christmas , a victim of mass consciousness, Christmas really bites this year.

  12.  #12Tina on December 17, 2009 at 10:02 pm

    I called my sister , she wasnt home. I did talk to her “boyfriend” he says things have a way of working out. I called my neighbor , he laughed. He said he’ll take me out tomorrow to buy some new ones, I said ok sure no problem. I’m going to have a bald Christmas tree! eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

  13.  #13gina on December 17, 2009 at 10:04 pm

    Wow Tina…I’m sorry

  14.  #14gina on December 17, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    phew, I feel relieved that you’re in better spirits!!! I was feeling those Christmas Blues…

  15.  #15Tina on December 17, 2009 at 10:37 pm

    Thank you Gina and Daria, now I have this guy so hell bent on traveling two hours for a date. He keeps sending emails one after the other. I told him I was having a “tree situation” and couldnt respond so quickly to his emails. I have Christmas music playing , I started to re decorate the tree, blue christmas is playing on my cd of christmas jams that “truckman” made for me. He isnt calling because he isnt calling no biggie.

  16.  #16Tina on December 17, 2009 at 10:44 pm

    whoa, he wants to meet tonight like friday night. ok I’ll go, he’ll pick me up since i have no wheels 🙂 I have no issue with race really, this is the first black american man that has messaged me how weird, and its like two hours away from where I live.

  17.  #17Lisa on December 17, 2009 at 11:28 pm

    During the last few YEARS of being with “my” guy, I had taken to walking with my head down or diverted from faces, and having a bit of a frown. Now I am conscious of making an effort to make eye contact and smile, and most people reciprocate. I had forgotten …

    When with such a negative person, one adopts their frame of mind, or at least I did, in order to fit in. I reject it totally now. I will smile, and not be disappointed if it doesn’t come back. It comes back often enough.

    I’ve had quite a lot of serendipity this week. Assistance came my way I could not have imagined. Here at this site, the ref. to the narcissist site was invaluable. I had somehow stumbled upon it years ago, but this time, it made perfect sense. It is written by an MD who IS a narcissist, and so understands intimately. There is no mistaking it, and it is corrosive. Never again.

    At the swimming pool the other day a chap struck up a conversation — said he’d seen me at garage sales, which was true. Wedding ring, but that’s no reason not to smile and chat. As he took off on his last lap he said he was getting over a cold, and quoted Frost with a smile: “Miles to go before I sleep …”

    There was his message to me!

  18.  #18Mary on December 17, 2009 at 11:47 pm

    I’m thinking I shouldn’t have secluded myself like this. I’m thinking about going home tomorrow…

    I can study at home. I’ll just say no to the parties. And if I get weirded out, I can have coffee with a friend.

  19.  #19dorothea on December 18, 2009 at 12:40 am

    I feel lonely and passed up on. i wish there were a decent man here to cuddle with me until i fell asleep. i feel scratchy on the inside from being so sick. i feel left behind.

  20.  #20Maria on December 18, 2009 at 12:50 am

    SS, maybe the message was just that you should have just left?

  21.  #21Daria on December 18, 2009 at 4:02 am

    i feel odd i feel smily and teary and sinister eavilicious and sad like jafar


    i went with my girl to see a guy friend of mine

    and guywhohadababy was there

    we didnt look at each other

    well im pretty sure he looked at me

    i didnt 5 second look him or even 1/2 second look him

    RORI if we see a man from our past who has acted like a jerk and we feel furious at, should we 5 second look these people?

    like the ex husband with the new wife?

    you know how its like we were so on the same level or something

    hes tryna like subconsciously ie subtly make up with me

    fuckin slick ass muthafucka

    like you know how you say something but no one else is listening to you, so you must be talking to me but its a group and were not talking to each other

    or i say something to someone else and it goes over their head, or maybe not, but you respond by going ha

    like youre amused by my shit

    cuz im so clever

    fuckin square

    i feel mad

    i feel mad that i so get on that same wavelength with him

    im like a victim to him connecting with my mind and body

    its like freakin being in love wih a magician

    i hate you i hate you

    i hate you

    fuck you

    you are not getting close to me

    yes you are

    you are haunting my dreams

    im not giving in

    you know i looked good dressed in my buryat woman outfit

    he couldnt see any of me except my face, but my posture was like a goddess

    then he left

    i did keep looking at his house after that, but didnt really pine for him

    it was more subconscious

    fuckin planning ass square wannabe seducer

    tryna seduce me

    hell wait like a year if he has to

    i hate him

    i hate him
    i hater him

    i hater him

    i want to have that same power over him!!!

    maybe thats the message

    maybe i DO

    i DO

    I DO

    haha its a mirror

    i get it

    now to see if whether i can ffeel that i have that power on him,

    or what

    i feel tight in my shoulder

    is that lean forwardy

    i hate him

    he leans forward on me1! invading my conversation

    directing side comments to me


    we are like ignoring each other

    but talking on a different wavelength

    its gay

    not gay like gay but gay like frustrating


    who asked you to get on my wavelength

    i hate you

    step up or get out my wavelength


    i hate you

    i fuckin feel out of control

    i feel so jealous

    that he like has control over my attraction

    it feels like he has control over my body

    and i feel furious
    i feel furious that you treat me like this

    i feel furious

    haha hes just laughing at me

    he likes that he has control over my body

    i probably have some control over his heart
    but no

    im in an imaginary relationship

    im off and flying in dreamland


    fucking fuck

    he dint have to be ther

    am i atlaking to myself


    i know hes talking to me psychically

    well fuck you
    fuck you fucky ou

    im still mad

    and no im not falling for the bullshit

    you know whasup if you want this

    man up


    im mad

    you know you want this

    and you fuckin invading my dream space

    and my subtle thoughts

    you mind reader

    dont think im stupid

    i fuckin hate you

    and this control you have over me

    you are gay

    you are gay

    you are gay

    i dont want you

    i feel humiliated

    i feel good

    i feel sad

    i feel angry

    i feel soooo out of control of my own body

    and i hate you
    fuckin mastermind

    fucin crazy muthacuka


    go fuck your bitch

    you fuckin bastard
    i hate you
    i hate you
    i hater you

    i dont want shit from you

    i just want to fuck you

    and i want you to love me
    nd you]re abtich

    and i hate you


    fuck you bitch

    i dont give a fuck
    if you want me
    back the fuck off
    stupid bitch
    kiss my ass

    fuk u
    fuck u
    fuck u
    i cnat stop writing
    cuz u such a bitch
    and im so furious at you
    jesus christ
    i want to beat you down and kill u


    waht the FUCK IS IT??

    why you gon BE THERE


    he was fuckin there


  22.  #22Tina on December 18, 2009 at 4:27 am

    If a man doesnt agree with my circular dating then what? I said I would go on the first date with him, he’s coming here to pick me up. He doesnt agree with my no sex rule either lol. He says he respects my position but doesnt agree. So our first date is going to be about sealing my rules and him his and confirm we are not going to date again? ok Im going 🙂 He did agree about no sex on the first date but within a few weeks haha. I told him well as far as I am concerned a good man who is very interested in me will wait for ever how long it takes. I said I feel uncomfortable kissing you if we havnt bonded in some way either I have to be really seriously feeling chemistry or a connection 🙂 I did find myself leaning forward and defending my position a little. I said also that I will know how I feel about our date also that I want to feel like I am being heard by him.

    My Christmas tree is back up and a little sparse. Is ok though, still looks good. I’m having a karaoke Christmas night here with a few friends and my sister, shes got all the karaoke jams for Christmas. I’m picking up a turkey tomorrow and called a few friends.

  23.  #23Tracy on December 18, 2009 at 4:30 am

    This post came at just the right time….
    Just discovered that the guy i was so bent up about actually has financial problems…
    I am just feeling sorry for him,and at the same time angry at myself for spending so much time thinking about him yet i realize that the truth is it would not have worked out…I am so keen on finances that if anything i would have driven him nuts about working on improving his way of Managing finances…The universe i feel is perfect in the way it brings people into our lives…
    I feel that i focused so much in getting him to like him…i didn’t and wasn’t listening to the message he was giving me….
    What message was it?
    That i needed to start loving myself……that i needed to take care of myself.That i am a loving and caring person…that i deserve all the love and affection the universe brings me…that there is so much to life and love….
    That i need to stop being afraid and allow things to be….

    I am circular dating and meeting al kinds of men….I feel grateful for this post…I am going to practise more on looking for the message instead on focusing on meeting THE MAN…..It feels so much more interesting…

  24.  #24Jessie on December 18, 2009 at 5:58 am

    The Xmas thing is hard for me too–I have 2 kids and never seem to get out anywhere–so no man says less presents, less fun, less kisses, and when the kids go with their dads –its so quiet in town here. I try to walk around but it can sometimes intensify my loneliness–picturing all the happy families around me and I am not part of one…my parents are hyper religious and dont celebrate xmas so its not really a place I can go plus we dont even talk anymore.

    They dont agree with divorce and I got divorced so xmas without parents and without a man can be terrible. I had some really good and bad xmas holidays but i discovered Roommates and now its alot better. Since I got a big house with roommates, the pressure to date so much is less, there is always someone around to come swimming with me or get a coffee or even a beer but basically I had to heal for a long time and I am not always happy to date –circular date sounds impossible to me because i find it very frustrating. I get guys who want to jump into bed with me…not interested. Guys who want to save me and dont know anything about me. Guys who are just plain predators and rude. I think it does take a lot of weeding out and thats why if I just find the first few that come around –they bring me down and again confirm my ideas about what a waste relationships are FOR ME (not for everyone but I come from a difficult place).

    I am concentrating hard now on my career, writing my thesis and applying to universities all over North America. I plan to go alone and am saving saving saving my money to take my kids on a wonderful adventure of education in another city and hopefully somewhere where my accent is really sexy and I will get lots of hot latin american man –lol

    I have a long term not a short term and so I wish you TINA a very merry xmas…full of love and kindness to yourself, and remember that you are not alone…I care now about you and I just heard a few words and so forget about those past boys that treated u wrong. I find all your comments very intelligent, upbeat, and full of soul and not shallow and empty so that means I think you will get where you are going. Remember to make xmas full of fun for yourself so your kids will follow your example because my kids always smile when I smile. Buy yourself flowers, Get a tan (if u like them), buy yourself a gift, wrap it up and put it under the tree from santa and your kids will LOVE that santa bought u something (mystery thing) and make it something u really love and deserve….if u just got a man today then you would rush out and buy him something probably–well spend the money on yourself!
    Get some calling cards and call everyone u know on facebook…catch up, cry, remember, tell them stories about your life, do anything but dont give in to the holiday crap…..its not always bubbles and roses and I would say i have had approximately 25 years of bad holidays counting my childhood and since then (and i am only 32) so you will get through this one! Just think of me! Jessie! I will send you lots of good energy and next year if it looks as miserable –save all year for a trip to cuba and have a grand time with your friends!

    LOts of caring for u,

  25.  #25Tracy on December 18, 2009 at 7:18 am

    i FEEL ashamed of my past relationship….ashamed of allowing myself to be treated badly….I feel angry that i allowed it to happen..i feel angry and upset…
    I feel glad that now i can feel my anger and frustrations.I feel good admitting my anger…
    I feel resonance with my present moment.I ackowledge that my past has brought me hear.I don’t feel good dwelling in the past…I have now…i want to feel good now..
    One of my dates is taking me for a massage next week…I feel excited about it.I am looking forward to it and to all the other dates i am going to have…
    I am feeling better now…It feels better not dwelling on my past and shameful feelings…i accept my present moment.I accept my present feelings….i feel relieved.

  26.  #26Mary on December 18, 2009 at 8:43 am

    hello jessie,

    i was touched by tina’s situation, and by the guy who wants everything NOW. your letter to her is so beautifully wise and comforting. did you feel that, tina, when you read it? i know i did.

    having two kids in a small town and facing christmas by yourself must be very difficult! i feel sad that you’re in that situation this year.

    wow, wow, wow! about doing your thesis with two kids, and planning to go to graduate school! that amazes me. i feel happy for you!

    another big wow about saving your money for a vacation for your kids! they will appreciate that so much some day. consider victoria, bc! it’s a destination location that no one knows about! beautiful gardens, the british museum, imax and going to see the whales. plus the victoria bug zoo, high tea at the empress (okay, maybe not for kids), walks on the breakwater and everywhere else… it would be a great time. let me know and i’ll show you around!

    and the present for yourself. oh, my. i’m sure that kids would just LOVE that! for you to get something from santa, too! that is just brilliant. they’re probably wondering more about that present than any of theirs. what a delightful thing!

    sounds like your parents are being their authentic selves. sad that their christmas thinking has made it less christmasy for you. may you will find a man someday who meets your high standards and brings you some christmas cheer! sounds like you’re learning to do it for yourself.

    for now, you sound like a STRONG, BEAUTIFUL, MATURE AND GRACEFUL woman who is facing her feelings head-on. i’m happy that you’re on a career track. what a great thing that is for your kids, too.

    may we all have a wonderful christmas!

  27.  #27"Terry" on December 18, 2009 at 8:44 am

    This post was great! The line about “the man is not calling because he doesn’t want to” was exactly what I needed to hear.

    Daria: I feel the same things about Steve (who recently had a baby with his abusive wife — my version of “guywhohadababy”). Know just what you mean about the chemistry and the connection. When I’m in the same room with him, I just lose it. My energy reaches out for him and the connection’s there no matter how much I don’t want it to be.

    Last night was the theater board Xmas party, and yesterday was my last final of the semester. Didn’t want to go to party since I knew Steve would be there. Was going to try to force myself to go anyway and be lovely, but the Universe stepped in. 🙂

    In the AM, my van wouldn’t start. Couldn’t get anyone to look at it til later in the day, and then it was someone I knew who came to my house (where the van is parked). So I missed the party because I had to get the van fixed. (It’s an older male relative, but still very nice of him to help. He is coming later today to jury-rig it til we can get the replacement part).

    I realized I was much happier staying at home in my sweats, playing World of Warcraft, and going to bed really early to get a full night’s sleep (which hasn’t happened in about 2 weeks — end of semester). I needed chill time.

    Steve and I had been texting earlier in the day (he initiated), so he knew about the final, and the van. He informed me that he had finished and turned in HIS last paper of the semester, but didn’t bother to congratulate me on getting straight “A”‘s in all my classes, he didn’t offer me a ride to the theater board party, just gave me a pseudo-sympathy “No fun!” about the van being broken.
    A female friend on the board, “Trisha,” (who knows about Steve and I and who just left HER abusive husband), wished me good luck on the final, offered me a ride to the party, and asked if there was anything she could do to help with the vehicle situation. After the party, she texted me, “Missed you.”
    I heard nothing at all from Steve after the party. This morning I was trying to bend my mind around all this when I read Rori’s post.
    And I decided not to worry my pretty little head about it! He didn’t bother to call, offer help, or even text me that he missed me at the party BECAUSE HE DIDN’T WANT TO.
    And, yes, I am angry at Steve; only last week he called (to set up a date and then break it on the day of, because he got stuck in surgery –again!) and said, “I love you.”
    Well, he is not doing anything to SHOW it. I am angry that he sporadically gives me the words (only on the phone, though– he won’t even text it anymore) and then focuses mostly on himself, and doesn’t even bother to do the really easy things he COULD do, yet somehow expects me to believe him, not doubt his love, and be OK with not seeing him for over a month at a time because “work is so crazy.”
    If he really wanted to, he would find a way to spend 10 minutes with me sometime in that month, and I told him so during a texting conversation last Friday. I feel better that I at least got to express that, along with “I feel frustrated.”

    I deserve better than that. I think a soulmate relationship would have to involve two people who are both committed to their love, not one who is doing all the work and one who’s looking after his own interests first.
    I also deserve a man who’s really available. Even when things were great, he used his marriage as an excuse to make less effort with me. Plus, he was so afraid of getting caught or being accidentally seen by someone he knew, that he hardly dared kiss me in the Starbuck’s parking lot.
    I want much more than that now.
    Maybe he really does care and the guilt finally got to him, which is what he claimed during our big fight (which also turned out to be our last real conversation about the relationship). In that case, it’s his problem to fix by either being faithful to a woman who beats him and emotionally kicks him in the balls, or by working up the guts to leave.
    Not my problem.
    I love everybody here!

  28.  #28Mary on December 18, 2009 at 8:50 am

    i’m in this pretty b&b in the rainforest, as i said, with the wild and furious waves crashing down below, and it’s beautiful, but it’s raining, raining and more rain is in the forecast, and i’m beginning to feel so depressed here. maybe i can study at home after all! but if i go home, will my guy think i’m coming to be near him? will that feel to him as though i’m leaning forward? will he think of me as wishy-washy? always changing my mind? i did that once two years ago when i got a job and then quit it two days later. the problem is that i committed to being here for too long! i’m going back for christmas – through new year’s, but i’m supposed to come back here for 13 days after that! seems like a long time… nothing to do here but study! but maybe that’s good. maybe i should stick it out. i can’t stand it that he’s in whistler, skiing… but he’s been on his own for a year and half now, and he came back to me. he’ll just feel that freedom again and maybe it’ll make him miss me. so possibly i should stay? i have a commitment with a friend on the 10th, so either i drive back and forth for that (four hours each way) or i make a different arrangement. my main factor in the decision is how HE will feel if i make it. maybe i should forget about that and just do what i WANT to do! which is leave here and go home!

  29.  #29Mary on December 18, 2009 at 9:01 am


    i feel relief that you didn’t have to face steve at the party. i feel glad that you’re thinking and feeling your way away from him. steve is the one with the abusive wife? either still with her or just getting out? no wonder he isn’t calling! he’s in crises. who knows what will happen? but he doesn’t seem to be able to be the man you need for you, for whatever reason. marriage situation, maturity level, commitment phobias, who knows? i hope that you stay with your feelings and that they keep letting you know what is best for you!

    i thought of you last night while i was studying. glad you didn’t have to go through the extreme energy drain of being at the party with him.

  30.  #30Mary on December 18, 2009 at 9:05 am

    the line “the man is not calling because doesn’t want to,” is similar to one that really spoke to me a while back:

    “if he wanted to be with you, he would be with you.”

  31.  #31DocK on December 18, 2009 at 9:28 am

    This post helped fill in the blanks for me. In the past when I have date, I found that I was always really good at keeping the flow of conversation going in spite of the fact that I may realized that I was just not not not attracted to the guy or when/if he was clumsy in conversation.

    The problem would be that I would realize that I wasn’t interested in him or more dates but he was under the impression that everything went swimmingly and be perplexed as I tried to convey my lack of interest in going further. I felt bad : (

    This sounds interesting to me.

    Mary, I remember that as well “if he wanted to be with you, he would be with you” from a program. So true.

  32.  #32DocK on December 18, 2009 at 9:37 am

    Also, going to visit the family next week and they are sort of sans computer there so won’t have opportunity to read much or comment.

    I feel inspired and connected to all of you lovely Sirens here through your words and stories. I wish you all the happiest of days and holidays – whichever ones you honor – and a fantastical 2010 filled with hot guys chasing you around, romancing you and you teasing, flirting and lettin’ them do their thing as you receive and enjoy.

    I wanted to share a memory. Some time ago I was at a restaurant and there was a large table of young teen girls and a song came over the music system. They all suddently started to sing together – it was the song “Breathe (2 am)” – and their voices were so beautiful.

    I felt my eyes well up with tears as I felt moved by the way that we as women come to our Siren-ness so naturally – how is it that we forget and become so self-conscious and self-critical?

    Let us not forget!

  33.  #33tinque on December 18, 2009 at 10:00 am

    “a man SHOWS you who he is and what he wants ”

    This stood out for me, a lesson learned well. My ex was full of pretty words, but there was nothing to back them up.
    K on the other hand had very few words, but his actions shouted to the rooftops with love. It was an amazing lesson for me to hear what he was saying without words.
    He walks the walk, and that’s what really matters.
    The words are more readily available now, yet often I would miss them if I wasn’t paying attention. He speaks without fanfare. He speaks from the heart, spontaneously.
    And the odd times he says he loves me, I know he really, really means it, for it retains its meaning. It’s never voiced carelessly.

  34.  #34Mary on December 18, 2009 at 10:05 am

    Hi DocK:

    your story about the women singing made me think of one of mine:

    i was working as a piano player, and it was between christmas and the new year, and there were some guys who got together for a training seminar. they had been talking with each other for years over the phone but never met each other in person. then they all had to get this training, so they appeared at my hotel and sat around my piano when they met each other. it was cool, because one of them said, “hey, i always pictured you with red hair,” and another said, “and I thought you were another race!” and they talked about people they knew, etc. then, just before new year’s eve, they had to go. they asked me to play “auld lang syne” and they got up, put their arms around each other and swayed as they sang it, and there were tears in their eyes! one of the guys actually cried.

    i think of this every year as one of my favorite christmas memories.

  35.  #35Mary on December 18, 2009 at 10:07 am

    i think guys are just like us in some ways, but they just can’t show it! i think they have just as many needs for bonding and being with each other as we have…

  36.  #36Mary on December 18, 2009 at 10:13 am

    except for them to be together, they have to kill birds, or fish or each other (sports)!

  37.  #37Jennifer7777 on December 18, 2009 at 10:49 am

    This post is SO right on Rori! Circular Dating is so hard sometimes for just that very reason…I have been following all of the advice here and been doing it for about 6 months in a new city and all I can say is that guys say a bunch of things ALL THE TIME, and when we get too into our heads and try to figure them out, that is the kiss of DEATH for our sanity. Simply, put, when they want you, they come after YOU…YOU will KNOW because they will call, and text, and email, and never leave you guessing. My girlfriend and I are both single and doing the same frusterating dance with men, and its hard, because sometimes it seems like the ones you connect with and like ( and they REALLY seem to like you) and you go out and date for a month or two, and then they just kinda disappear….I ALWAYS follow Rori’s rules to the T and NEVER initiate ANYTHING, but am always warm and inviting if they move forward and thats the key….doing that will smoke the bad ones out!! When you do all the tools and they come to you, if they STOP coming to you, then you KNOW…..
    HERE is a wonderful case in point, something that happened to me just Last night…….I met a man at my neighborhood bar, very fun, very festive night….we made eye contact with each other all night, he was very handsome and I was intrigued, and I just warmly smiled at him and he would smile back, but it never seemed to be enough to make him want to walk over…so I did a little “Rori” experiment if you will, I told my GF that I was gonna step outside and make a fake call and see if he followed me…he DID…and struck up a conversation, even gave me a cab ride home, (asked if he could come up too, by the way, to which I just smiled sweetly and said no….) then as I got ready to go out….I just kept smiling and facing him, being warm, waiting for him to ask for my number, and he COULDNT STEP up, so I thanked him sweetly for the ride and went inside my building……the old me would have offered my number, but that would be leaning forward big time….see, I smoked some handsome LOSER out who just wanted to get laid! I’m positive he would have taken my number if I gave it to him, and yeah, we probably would have gone out, but the whole point is that the MAN must initiate, and he just didn’t. Our chemistry just wasnt enough to make him want to ask for my number, and because I followed the tools, I probably smoked out a guy who probably just wanted to cheat on his girlfriend…yea for me….don’t give up, just because they are soooo cute or charming, or whatever, and you think, oh, hes not asking for my number, I’d better give it, cause I’ll never see him again….that’s fear based, old thinking…new thinking is, well, his loss!

  38.  #38Daria on December 18, 2009 at 12:33 pm

    I think the message is that I pick up other men and peoples thoughts. more than pick up, they actualy come in my head as my thoughts.

    like the “mirror” convo i had with that one guy onthe phone

    tonite the thoughts above sound like things he might even thingk about me! or that i worry he might think. all the fuck you bitch, etc. and who knows… the i want to fuck ou and i want you to love me … that might be him too

    its like this shared energy space and it gets our thoughts mixed

    so maybei want to clear this enery space


    if we see a guy we had something with, and we are still attracted… do we give him the 5 second look? like when wr’re doing that “Rockstar” thing cuz he’s in our theter group

    im pretty sure were not supposed to let our eyes glaze over him as if hes not there…
    are we?

    or do we smile at him and look at him for 5

    or maybe even 2


  39.  #39Daria on December 18, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    do we open up our energy or ignore him?

    probably open up our energy and make eye contact huh… hmmmmmm

    i couldve tried that

    and let all the emotions play out on my face



    that might have felt more healing

    this felt fun

    i still felt seen

    because i could Feel him watching me and i felt admired

  40.  #40Daria on December 18, 2009 at 12:41 pm

    next time i could make eye contact!

    so what if im mad!

    that doesnt mean no contact!

    it will communicate my madness….

    i dont have to say hi

    but i can connect eyes

    I DONT haE TO PRETEnd this pERSOn iSNT theRE

    its weird! I feel like we’re playing a game that we both know the rules to. and at the same time were silently communicating to uphold our own game

    i feel so on the same team with him and i feel filled with giggly energy

    i love my filling with giggly energy

    i love my desire to call im riht now and tell him i want to hang out with hima nd have sex with him lol

    i love myself

  41.  #41Daria on December 18, 2009 at 12:43 pm

    my eyes will show how im feeling more authentically than avoiding his eyes will

    what do you think?

    i avoid people’s eyes when im mad

    maybe thats not the best way?


    interesting MESSAGE


  42.  #42Flipper on December 18, 2009 at 1:38 pm

    That’s what I told him, too, when I realized the actual excuse didn’t matter: “In fact, it’s because you didn’t want to.” But saying it like that felt like a lesson or a reproach, to me anyway and prolly to him. Maybe if I’d said “what I felt is that you didn’t really want to” my response would’ve been easier to hear, and easier to say when it’s true. And if I’d added, …”and that’s okay, but it didn’t feel good and I don’t want to feel that way” could’ve led us to a real connection or failing that, me to accepting what his not wanting to meant.

  43.  #43Daria on December 18, 2009 at 1:50 pm

    Flipper –

    i feel compelled to add “Lefkoe style” … it means nothing except the meaning we give to it

  44.  #44Flipper on December 18, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    Right Daria. In this case, understanding ‘he doesn’t want to’ at face value ‘ because he doesn’t want to’ and not thinking ‘because he has hangups, or financial issues, or too much work, or fear of commitment or a sick relative, or because I was too pushy, blah, smart, unattractive’… nauseum.

  45.  #45Rori Raye on December 18, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    Jennifer 777 – This is just one of the most powerful stories I’ve ever heard around Circular Dating, and being a “diva” and taking care of yourself. Having the strength and will to “smoke him out” even one time makes you feel fantastic! Now, I know there will be replies to this asking – “but what if the guy is just shy….” etc – but notice this one had the “balls” to follow her outside, start talking, and offer her a cab ride. Asking for her number would have been easy. Jennifer – you rock!!! Love, Rori

  46.  #46tinque on December 18, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    great story Jennifer7777

  47.  #47Tina on December 18, 2009 at 5:06 pm

    Turns out I didnt go out on a date afterall, I went shopping instead. I felt a bit guilty for not sticking around waiting for a phone call, he didnt leave a message either. I’m good with that. If he calls he calls , if not then ok too. I felt relieved he didnt and I went shopping instead.

    Thank you Jesse for your uplifting words, I’ll be thinking of your family too and the kids. I’m starting to have a good time, I went shopping with my neighbor and started singing christmas songs on our way to town. We made up songs too. “jive turkey christmas” we were shopping for turkeys. I cant remember what song we sang it too but it was good.

    My neighbor came over to inspect the tree, he loves it, he cant believe it ever fell down and busted half the bulbs, it does still look good though. He’s coming to my Christmas Karaoke night on wednesday night. I’ll be practicing “Last Christmas” by George Michell and “Santa Baby” by Ertha Kitt 🙂 I’ll cook my turkey then with all the trimmings for the party and have eggs benedict for Christmas breakfast with my son. I’ll be celebrating Christmas with my friends on Wednesday and not on the friday. I’ll have lots of left overs and wont feel like cooking.

    My Christmas spirit came only after the second decorating of the tree. I was humming all day through the shopping malls, in lines, everywhere. I’m still practicing my songs for Wednesday.

  48.  #48alias girl on December 18, 2009 at 5:25 pm

    yae jennifer 7777! i feel absolutely on board with what you wrote. thank you for sharing!

    if the man thought for a second this could be MY GIRL he would grow a pair of balls and ask for the number. or if he thought i might be his forever girl and still couldn’t ask for my number then even better that i don’t lean forward and row for him because that is what i would be stuck doing Forever on. (rowing for the both of us)

    if a man can’t or won’t or doesn’t it’s all the same and it equals that he isn’t.

    and if he isn’t rowing then nobody is

    and other men are

    so i’d rather be with the ones where it feels good and i can lean back and radiate my goddess self and watch and admire as he rows.

    and yes this includes keeping the conversation afloat, sending me energy, complimenting me, making plans, following through, doing what was promised, making calls, keeping in touch and pleasing me. protecting me. caring for my feelings.

  49.  #49Lisa on December 18, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    I thought last night, while taking a bath: “What would I say if the guy I am leaving came around, and asked what I was doing for Christmas, or invited me over?” My answer will be, “I don’t know. But I won’t give you the chance of ruining another holiday of mine.” I thought, I will be much happier in my cold little apartment, bundled in front of a heater, than in his fancy warm house.

    I choose for cold temps. vs. cold emotions. I can be happy alone. Or maybe with a friend, who knows. But not him. I have yet to “have it out” with him because that is not how things go here. There has never been any authentic dialog about anything other than business matters. He just disappears for weeks at a time, and shows up when he chooses. So I see this as just the normal course … it will be a slow dissolution of no being together.

    I have written a farewell letter, but have not sent it. There will probably be no need to do so. It simply expresses that I had no idea what a deep well of sadness, anger and disappointment I have surrounding the entire relationship.

  50.  #50Lisa on December 18, 2009 at 6:08 pm


    You must read “Go Kiss a Frog” in today’s NYT. It is a funny riff on a woman who asks for her money back after buying into the Cinderella story:

    An excerpt:

    “Not to go on harping on these things, but like Peter Pan, for years and years I have refused to grow up. Yet it is patently false that all it takes to fly is to “think a wonderful thought, faith, trust, and pixie dust.”

    Unless you mean figuratively, with another kind of “pixie dust,” there are no wonderful thoughts, faith or trust involved in flying these days. “Peter Pan” in essence is nothing more than (and I hate to slander) a fairy tale: Flying involves paying money, missing years of your life waiting and being delayed, and seatmates who clip their toenails.

    As this legal action proceeds, I will have you note that, like the Little Mermaid, I recently traded in my voice after a deal with an evil stranger for chance at love with a man I’ve only seen once. There go my chances of following your advice to sign up for a high school musical for a one-way ticket to popularity.”

    I’d love for Rori to address our fairy tails.

  51.  #51Daria on December 18, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    I got a red nani!

    yay and i feel achy too

  52.  #52Daria on December 18, 2009 at 6:16 pm

    from thre other thread, this is part of whats going on with my withoolding eye contact from people im not attracted (or even am attracted to)

    “Part of this is your fear of turning them on and then not being able to say “no” to them.”

  53.  #53"Terry" on December 18, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    Thank you! 🙂 Good luck with your studying!
    And yes, Steve’s the guy with the abusive wife, 3-month old baby & two teens. As far as I know, he’s not even trying to leave right now, so there’s no crisis. He is probably pretending to be all “happy family”. Blech!!!!

    Today he showed me even more of who he is:
    I was having a good morning, cleaning my house now that finals are over. I was feeling good that I’d stayed home from the party due to my broken van and feeling good about cleaning & moving energy.
    There was no way I’d have sent him a text first.
    HE initiated texting and actually asked me how it’s going. I mentioned the van’s still down and asked how he is. (Why did I do that? I should have completely ignored his text, shouldn’t I?)
    “Christmas shopping today,” he responded.
    This was around 1:30 PM. He doesn’t usually take lunch breaks, so that wasn’t it.
    I texted back “Work?” and of course he never responded.
    EIGHT DAYS ago, he broke our coffee date (for what — the sixth time of the eight he’s broken it), saying the rush to get end-of-year surgeries would keep him “busy til the end of the year”. Every time he has rescheduled, work has been the excuse.
    Now, he is out Xmas shopping in the middle of the afternoon on a workday??!!
    Not only that, he knows my van’s broken and didn’t offer to take me shopping or even take me out for coffee.
    So, I’m wondering if he lied to me about how busy he was. Maybe he forgot he told me he was having this insane rush of work that would keep him busy for the rest of December so he couldn’t see me. OOPS.
    Maybe he just wants to make me think he’s a total ass.
    It’s working.
    What bites is that he never would have acted like this when things were good and he was in love with me (was that only three months ago he was swearing undying love, panting after me, calling me “my lovely” and making plans to marry me? Yep…).
    OR…maybe this is just the first time I’ve noticed a discrepancy between two things he’s said, or what he’s said and actually done. I don’t know.
    I know he’s covered his tracks pretty well when out with me and work or Jane or someone else has called. He’s smoothly pretended to be just leaving one hospital and in transit, or stopping for a quick coffee, etc.
    Sometimes he just left out the important parts, like the fact that he was getting that quick coffee with somebody or had detoured at the park or bookstore while in transit. He was good at sounding…innocent and even upright.

    Wow, that is sounding kinda toxic…

    I’ve been working on feeling my feelings, and I felt a lot of anger (maybe even rage?) at Steve. What I felt like saying was, “Fuck Off!”
    And then I was angry with myself for being “nice” and responding in a civilized, polite way to his text.
    And then I felt angry at myself again for allowing my neediness and insecurity to control me while I was in the relationship with him.
    I think it might feel good to completely ignore him until I’m not so angry.
    Where on the site can I find suggestions for dealing with this anger, especially when he calls or texts? I’ve never acknowledged or felt my anger with other men who treated me badly or suddenly dumped me after seriously discussing marriage.
    I feel powerful, to be able to own my feelings!
    It feels GOOD!
    Now what?

  54.  #54Daria on December 18, 2009 at 6:40 pm

    I did my magic frog exercise which usualy completely relieves my achiness.

    but this time i still feel it a lil bit and also i feel a lill nauseous

  55.  #55Daria on December 18, 2009 at 6:43 pm

    Teryy – try texting back

    im feelin angry !

    next time

    that always makes me feel good about expressing my feelings

  56.  #56Tina on December 18, 2009 at 7:37 pm

    Terry, you can deal with your anger here, we do:)

  57.  #57Tina on December 18, 2009 at 8:22 pm


  58.  #58Mary on December 18, 2009 at 8:42 pm


    I know you know this with your head: He’s married.

    He probably feels guilty about calling you, texting you, being out with you, taking you to the party even if your van doesn’t work, etc. He’s married. That’s all there is to it.

    Rori has some good things to say about getting over men:

    What To Do When You Feel Rejected

    Saying Goodbye

    and my personal favorite:
    Don’t Let Go, Don’t Resolve, Forget Closure and Stay On Your Horse

  59.  #59Mary on December 18, 2009 at 8:46 pm

    men getting phone numbers:

    i read SOMEWHERE that there was a woman bartender, and a man wanted her number, and she said, “my name is brandy. i work here. you figure it out.” and that made him crazy to find her number.

  60.  #60Tina on December 18, 2009 at 8:47 pm


  61.  #61Mary on December 18, 2009 at 8:55 pm

    Terry, I do feel for you. I feel sadness that you’re in this situation. And I feel for me. I feel fear because I’m treading on thin ice with my relationship. But, the stories about circular dating are encouraging.

  62.  #62Mary on December 18, 2009 at 11:16 pm

    this is different:

    i just got off the phone with B, who didn’t like the idea of my dating R, so he called the other day to say he wouldn’t be seeing me. now B says that he wants to go out with me if he can have one day a week. that way he wouldn’t have to compete with anyone else for my time. (he says he hates rejection, and doesn’t want to call me only to be rejected.) he understands that i just want to date for now, and that dating is a means to an end. (i explained that I didn’t want to just jump into an exclusive relationship; i wanted to be married, etc., etc.)
    he says he respects the fact that i’m sticking with what i want for myself! yes! i love respect.

    i don’t know how to juggle this with R. what do i tell him? i really love R, but i think that marriage will always feel like a cage to him. i’m not sure he can do it. he’s been single all his life, and he’s used to variety in women.

    could this possibly work? give B one day a week? it would make R want to commit, but how long would it last, when he finally has me all to himself? and would that be using B to get a commitment from R? i worry about that.

    it all seems a little crazy to me. i just don’t really get it, you know? i’m not in the groove with it. any ideas out there?

    maybe these guys are not for me? or it would be easier?

  63.  #63Daria on December 19, 2009 at 12:09 am

    Mary you need to circular date AT LEAST 3 men.

    Rori says that dating 2 has a bounce effect, and that seems to be whats going on here

    either way i feel a little disappointed to see you focusing on them rather than Yourself and your feelings

    but i feel pretty sure that you will get there

  64.  #64Mary on December 19, 2009 at 12:15 am

    i feel anger that i don’t understand how to make circular dating work for me.

    i feel sadness and shame that i’m even out there dating because of divorce, etc.

    i feel fear that i will have to settle or be alone.

    i feel happiness to be wanted by two different guys, especially R.

    i feel fear that R will leave me again.

    i feel anger that he broke up with me so many times.

    i feel happiness to be with him again.

    i feel happiness to be with B when i’m with him. he’s different than R. brings out another side of me, and i like it.

  65.  #65Daria on December 19, 2009 at 12:16 am

    i feel a lil scared

    i feel glad

  66.  #66Mary on December 19, 2009 at 12:31 am

    that tickles me for some reason =)

  67.  #67Mary on December 19, 2009 at 12:32 am

    i’m writing my own personal feeling blog to practice.

  68.  #68alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 12:36 am

    “bounce” effect. I don’t recall hearing that before. dating two i don’t totally like or know would prob feel ok. dating two i like a lot would prob feel worse than dating one i like. (if neither were rowing).

    dating three i like would feel perfect. 🙂

    dating five i like would feel like a lot to handle. maybe not even possible. (for me)

  69.  #69Rori Raye on December 19, 2009 at 12:40 am

    Thank you so much for this, Mary – I actually went back and read them again…I’m so glad these have helped you…and reading them again helps me, too. Love, Rori

  70.  #70Daria on December 19, 2009 at 12:44 am

    Ag I THink it was in Targeting mr. right.

    Rori, Mary what is ‘these” that rori is referring to?

    Rori what do you think to do about going to a party where the “dreaded ex” is there… eye contact and open to ex …

    NOt avoiding eye contact… right? or?

  71.  #71Mary on December 19, 2009 at 12:44 am

    they can’t wrap their heads around the concept of “wanting to keep my options open.”

    R was ready to commit, but it didn’t feel good because some time has gone by since we were engaged, and it’s like he had to see who else was out there before he came back to me. i feel pretty low about that.

  72.  #72Daria on December 19, 2009 at 12:45 am

    oh the stories abt circular dating are the ‘these’ i think

  73.  #73Mary on December 19, 2009 at 12:46 am

    Rori – I love that part about not having to have closure! That’s really brilliant! You come up with the most original things.

  74.  #74Mary on December 19, 2009 at 12:48 am


    “these” refers to some articles i found for terry. my post was waiting for evaluation and just got added. it’s from this afternoon.

  75.  #75Daria on December 19, 2009 at 12:48 am

    i dont count how many men im dating… like my brain doesnt go there…

    what counts as dating/ ? men who call me, last man who took me out? men i know want to marry me?

    i dono somehow i dont count any of this

    its just a river of men for me

  76.  #76alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 12:51 am


  77.  #77Mary on December 19, 2009 at 12:52 am

    mmmmmm… i wonder how that must feel, having a river of men.

  78.  #78Daria on December 19, 2009 at 1:08 am

    wow thanks for the rebringing up the articles!

    I really like this in the last one

    “The simple truth is – if you stop FIGHTING your feelings for him and pull toward him, and thoughts about him – and simply REFOCUS your mind, body and heart around something NEW – something that FEELS GOOD – something that’s MEANINGFUL to you – it will overpower the energy you’re showering on this undeserving man.”

    I get this! the way im thinking on getting that guy or not getting him (manwithababy) is something im doing to Distract my attention from ME to HIM

    I can see I learned a lot about waht i want and dont want in a man, from my interactions with him. And Im already doing much better on focusing on me, and allowing myself to be my center…

    I still feel pulled and thats ok, I can refocus on me and something good… and I can feel how taht frees him up and could actually attract him. wow… hmm

    again i dont want to focus on attracting him

    i want to focus on me and attracting the wonderful relationship i want

    its ok i can just refocus


    AG I feel afraid and confused by the whatever – was that to me?

  79.  #79Daria on December 19, 2009 at 1:12 am

    It feels kind of cool i guess. i mean sometimes my river is like almost dry. but i dont worry about it. I don’t really notice much actually, until it becomes very very dry and i start feeling a lil worried then… but even then really there is nothing to worry about

  80.  #80Mary on December 19, 2009 at 1:13 am

    AG – I feel the same way!

  81.  #81Daria on December 19, 2009 at 1:26 am

    i feel sad an now my tummys hurting

  82.  #82Daria on December 19, 2009 at 1:28 am

    also some thought jus came up to bother me im tyring to let it go cuz i jus had a very blessing healing and im suppose to be letting go and its been a breeze so far but this one is irking me rite now hmm

    i feel sad

  83.  #83Daria on December 19, 2009 at 1:36 am

    i think my sister jsu got angry an is sending me bad vibes or something

    wtf i feel angry

    i dont want to give my godbrother a ride to that interview he got now

    but just up until now i felt fine aobut it

    but i think she will complain that well you complain about giving me rides but let him ask and youre all ok


    i feel annoyed being asked for rides period.

    but i do want him to get this job and i feel glad he has an interview

    i feel annoyed of this pressure people have on my feelings long distance

    i feel mad

    fuck off!

    get the fuck out my forcefield

    im not a subcommando in ur unit or whatever

    leave me the fuck alone!

    thank u

    mmm i feel agressive and i feel like attacking and i feel attacked and angered

    i lvoe my feelings

    i allow all this to release thank u

  84.  #84Daria on December 19, 2009 at 1:39 am

    i am ok with letting this go

    i allow it to be safe for me to let this go

    i allow myself to let this go

    thank you.. i honor myself and all my anger and feelings

  85.  #85Daria on December 19, 2009 at 1:40 am

    i actually feel better! once i addressed it.. wow that was some srong sudden anger!

    i feel glad that its possible it Was just releasing


    i feel ready to let go of my “hanging on” too

    its ok

    it IS

    i feel good wow that was fast

  86.  #86Daria on December 19, 2009 at 1:45 am

    New Moon

    Red Blood

    Fast Release

    the night breathes in coolness in its dark nostrils

    star crystals salt it up

    the exhale comes with mystery and tree bark smells

  87.  #87Mary on December 19, 2009 at 1:48 am


  88.  #88Daria on December 19, 2009 at 1:56 am

    thanks Mary!

    I still feel good! that anger was coming up to be released and i do think it was my sister’s anger… wow

    and maybe i can kick people’s thoughts/feelings out my forcefield by telling them to get out of there now!

    this is awesome

    I had this amazing healing done by this woman named Brenda, shes an aboriginal woman who does healing songs and energy work in Canada,

    anyway this healing was super amazing and i feel very blessed and magical, so im excited about being way stronger emotionaly and super integrated and loving of myself and life

  89.  #89Mary on December 19, 2009 at 2:55 am

    i love the way you express yourself.

  90.  #90Mary on December 19, 2009 at 2:56 am

    make my imagination go crazy

  91.  #91Mary on December 19, 2009 at 2:57 am

    i’m not aware of much anger. i don’t know why. i’ve had some bad things happen recently. i just don’t feel mad.

  92.  #92Mary on December 19, 2009 at 2:58 am

    maybe it’s way down there somewhere, but i don’t think so.

  93.  #93Daria on December 19, 2009 at 3:13 am

    hehe it feels fun … thank you

  94.  #94Daria on December 19, 2009 at 3:14 am

    guilt, powerlessness flip to anger

    among other things

  95.  #95Daria on December 19, 2009 at 3:15 am

    I want to attract a guy that i feel as safe and on the same wavelength with as i do with guywhohadababy!


  96.  #96Mary on December 19, 2009 at 3:16 am

    i love it that i haven’t taken my test yet and i get to study. i love studying. i love this limbo period in my life when everything is waiting on passing the test. i love the waiting. i love it that my eyes hurt from staring at the computer screen all day, because i study online. that means i’m putting in the time. so surely i will pass. and then goodbye limbo! goodbye studying! hello career! all i have to do now is study. i love that.

  97.  #97Mary on December 19, 2009 at 3:17 am

    is guywithababy with the babysmama?

  98.  #98Daria on December 19, 2009 at 3:18 am

    And i want lots of fun and expanding and learning about my body and orgasms SEX with no threat to my choices on my fertility wishes

    soon as i get thru giving my blood back to earth

    yum yum sex i want it thank you

    I would like to have a man that turns me on and that I can learn about my body with and feel superlicious delicatesa

  99.  #99Daria on December 19, 2009 at 3:18 am

    Mary as far as I know yes.

  100.  #100Mary on December 19, 2009 at 3:19 am

    sounds good to me

  101.  #101Daria on December 19, 2009 at 3:20 am

    hmm I feel a drain on my energy.

    I dont know who hes with. I only know about ME ME ME…

    I clear the drain on my energy on the left side of my body

    my guess is hes thinking about me me me


    ok feeling better now energy pouring back in

    i want a man that treats me wonderful, shows me off to everyone, and wants to have me as his only!!1


  102.  #102Mary on December 19, 2009 at 3:21 am

    i want to have sex without any worry about diseases

  103.  #103Mary on December 19, 2009 at 3:26 am

    goin go sleep now. gnite daria

  104.  #104Mary on December 19, 2009 at 3:29 am

    thank goodness for chocolate pudding in the middle of the night

  105.  #105Daria on December 19, 2009 at 3:30 am

    i feel glad i dont worry about diseases with sex

    oh i went to the clinic and they found nothing, they sent it to the lab and they called me to said they found group b strep bacteria, but really low, about 10 thousand, not enough to get classified as an infection which is 100 thousand.

    so she said this can be normally in some womens nanis, but it may have gone into my pee and bladder when having sex

    she said they normally woulldnt treat this unless i was pregnant

    but if i want to be treated anyway they would give me antibiotics

    so i said i would wait to see cuz im feeling better

    (my acupuncturist gave me washes and insert herbal stuff)

    my body was really happy to have those!!

    i knew i had some bacteria thingy there before, just cuz how it felt a tiny tiny bit irritated but i didnt kno it would could go in my pee

    i will be more proactive in the future even when i kno its too minor for them to detect it…

    i can try cleaning inside with water and apple cider vinegar

  106.  #106Daria on December 19, 2009 at 3:32 am


    i dont like how at the clinic they tell you its ok to have certain bacteria like this group b strep or gardenerella

    i mean yeah its ok, but its not ok you know?

    i want my nani free of possible problems

    i feel glad to learn more about my body

  107.  #107Lola on December 19, 2009 at 4:48 am

    I was horrified when they told me my new born baby had strep b traces in her ear (they do a test for it I think). They wanted her to have a course of antibiotics just in case – that felt wrong to me – I looked into it – but I don’t like pre-preemptive stuff. This other doctor agreed with us. 9 years on she is robust – has never had antibiotics or any real health problems. We all have this stuff (or other stuff there or somewhere) – it usually gets discovered when something else is going on, not because it is a problem in itself- I know you are au fait with natural medicine. I guess it just feels like like a threat – I felt like that about my baby – i felt worried. keep taking care of yourself – that’ s your best defense against.. well, EVERYTHING! : ) ) : )) X

  108.  #108"Terry" on December 19, 2009 at 7:07 am

    LOVED this from you:
    ““The simple truth is – if you stop FIGHTING your feelings for him and pull toward him, and thoughts about him – and simply REFOCUS your mind, body and heart around something NEW – something that FEELS GOOD – something that’s MEANINGFUL to you – it will overpower the energy you’re showering on this undeserving man.”

    I think you were quoting Rori. If so. which post/thread? I’d love to read the whole thing. It’s SO POWERFUL and is exactly what I need right now.

    That’s what I was doing yesterday with my house when Steve caught me by surprise by texting me and I got triggered again. Fortunately he almost never contacts me on weekends, so I can look forward to a couple of Steve-free days while I practice.

    Also, I loved all the things you said about healing and also about expressing anger. I’ve felt in the past with Steve that even if I was angry with him (which I was probably stuffing), that I didn’t want to express it because his wife is such an angry, toxic, abusive person.

    I’ve always said things like “np” and “nbd, we can meet some other time,” or “hey, I understand where you’re coming from, and if that’s how you want to handle this, it’s OK.” He’s always responded by being relieved and grateful that I wasn’t furious at him.
    From what he’s said in the past, Jane abuses him emotionally on a daily basis (even in public — she has come to theater events and dogged his every step around the room, threatened & insulted, etc. which I have personally witnessed; his daughter, who likes me very much, has told me how she’s had a couple of outbursts in Walmart, etc).

    I understand Steve’s unavailable, even though he made himself available to me in romantic ways for the past year. But I’m no longer sad about this or longing after him! 😀 That’s huge progress for me, and all due to what I’m learning from Rori and you wonderful ladies!

    I am almost to the point where I don’t want him while he’s still with Jane.
    It will be hellishly difficult for him to get free.
    We live in a state where the mother nearly ALWAYS gets custody no matter what, so unless he gets a recording of her being abusive to the kids, not him, she WILL get at least the baby. (In another year, the daughter will be old enough to legally choose and the son will be 18 and off at college out-of-state). Jane has already gotten out of a state abuse investigation initiated by Steve’s parents, AND one prompted by a neighbor. He knows she can “beat the system” and the custody battle will be horrible for the kids. He is terrified that if he is not around 24/7 to take the abuse, she will target the baby and harm or even kill it.

    He will have to gnaw off his own leg and limp away from hell (his words, not mine). It’s obvious he’s enabling the cycle of abuse, but he doesn’t see any options.
    I can see where he grabbed onto me as a lifeline. I can also see where guilt and shame about our relationship, fear of discovery, and goddess-knows-what-else are playing in. At the time his baby came, we were in a show together and I know at least a couple of people were wondering if we had something going on. I can absolutely see him panicking and then deciding to “behave himself a little better” (his words in a text to me a few days after the baby came), publicly distancing me so nobody would figure it out and maybe tell Jane, and then cooling things off to the point where he can honestly claim there’s nothing romantic happening.

    YUCK. I deserve better than that.

    I’ve read that few domestic violence victims get out without help and support from others. But since he’s distancing me, he’s going to have to get that from somebody else.

    There are no support groups for battered men in our state.

    If he does manage to get out, he can come find me after the divorce and a lot of therapy.

    I want to explore ways to use Feeling messages to express my anger, but I don’t want to make him feel abused all over again by someone besides Jane.
    It’s not that I still feel he’s the prize, but my friends who have been abused have told me how they can get triggered and feel abused even when someone is expressing displeasure or anger in a relatively benign way.
    So how do I do Feeling messages to someone who’s being abused by another?
    Rori, how would you handle this?

    What’s the magic frog exercise? Where do I find it?

    Mary: THANK YOU for those great links! They are full of helpful things!
    Sending you positive energy as we both study hard to launch new careers. You are amazing!

  109.  #109Lola on December 19, 2009 at 7:29 am

    I have been with my BF 20 months – it’s been tough but a lot has been to do with how I’ve handled things (leaning forward, over functioning, drama and top of the list no boundaries). I’ve been using these tools and everything has improved, things seem to be getting better than i had ever imagined they could be, but loads of stuff still coming up around my boundaries issue.
    I found out that all his banking, drivers license etc is still in his old address where he lived with his ex girl friend until about 2 1/2 years ago. He has his mail diverted to him and this is, he says because he has moved twice since then and may be moving again.
    I feel uncomfortable about this because I know that if anything happened to him they i.e. an accident or anything they would contact her and I would not know for some time. This makes me feel frightened but also this makes me feel we are not an item despite the fact that he has been spending half his week with me and family and we talking living together.
    I understand his reasons and I don’t suspect he is seeing her – I told him how I felt and he apologised, said he will change it as he knows it upsets me. But, I think he has said that before and never did.
    What do you think?

  110.  #110tinque on December 19, 2009 at 9:58 am

    “i feel fear that i will have to settle or be alone.”

    Mary – This comment piqued my little brain cells. It’s rare to really know if he is “the one” right away or even one, two, three years on.
    Yes things can feel good, great even, the chemistry can be through the roof, OR NOT. But there is something that keeps you there. It’s not “perfect”, but there is something.
    This instinctive something may be there in the beginning but with none of the other, no incredible chemistry, but it still feels nice, not much of the fireworks, but there is SOMETHING, so you stick around, be in the moments with him. And all of the rest grows and expands with time.
    Maybe all of the pieces are there, but there is something that really, really bothers you about him. He feels like “the one” but is he? You question because there is a “thing”or a few “things”, and you wonder if you can live with it or them. Are they deal breakers? you might ask yourself.
    Maybe with time those “things” don’t matter anymore, or they disappear.
    In either scenario what may have looked like settling at first can turn out to be everything you wished for in a man and more. He may very well be YOUR brand of white knight in shining armor.

  111.  #111Tracy on December 19, 2009 at 11:47 am

    Thanks for expounding more on choosing the and feeling whether he’s the one…..
    I visited some of my friends over the past few weeks and i felt triggered by the way the women tried to control and manage the men….It didn’t happen all the time and given most of them are very young couples i guess its normal in the first few years of marriage.
    I just wondered why the urge to control situations was so apparent in the woman and why the men resisted it so much…Will i do the same when i settle down?is it a normal thing?
    I feel good that i have learnt so much from this blog and i can actually watch it transpire in my relationship and that of others…I feel that i still have so much to learn and i don’t feel i can advice anyone yet since i am still learning myself….
    I feel that this need to control is also there in me and wanting things to be different,wanting the man to change….pulling the blame on the outside…I understand now why its really easy to blame others for how we feel and focus less on working on ourselves.It is so concealed that we miss it….
    I feel that this expounds more on letting go of the need to control situations and men in general and instead focusing on how i feel and what feels good for me…and following that line….

  112.  #112Flipper on December 19, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    Daria wrote: ‘guilt, powerlessness flip to anger’ – I feel this is actually a good progression. Anger can empower, and adds force making action more effective (i.e. effectively dealing with whatever brought on the guilt rather than beat yourself up). My problem comes when anger preemptively flip(flop)s to guilt and powerlessness, and then gets stuck, encased in cement there. I love my defenses, that cement sure put a strong protective wall around my tiny self. But it hid the view and blocked the sound, so I didn’t get to see how anger could be used constructively. And now I do perceive that, and am learning how, and I feel scaredy brave to practice and chip away at the cement. I love all my ‘lost time’ and infinite learning curve, where I was finding other things and learning other things, which I still have.

  113.  #113laughing goddess on December 19, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    I had SEX!!!!! For the first time in almost two years.

    It felt so good. It was with one of my new circular datees. I feel worried that because we did it so soon he will lose interest…no challenge. But I also feel “oh well”. It felt like what I needed in the moment. It felt sweet and loving and hot. It felt good to share that part of myself with a man as I hadn’t in a long time. I felt very closed of and scared after breaking up with my boyfriend two years ago. I felt the need for a break from sex for a while. Then I felt ready but I had a hard time opening up to men. This situation felt just right. He was sweet and patient with me. I usually feel careful with men because once I start making out I usually want to have sex so I am careful about doing anything with them. We had hours and hours of foreplay first. I don’t feel attached to this man. I feel like the message from him was too help me feel comfortable being intimate again. I feel a little disappointment that the actual sex didn’t last longer. It seems like he was so worked up from all the foreplay that he could last very long when we had sex. I want to have sex for a long time. I want to get really worked. I feel embarrassed saying that. It felt so good to be intimate with another man. I was still feeling hung up on the last man I made out with (J, no sex). I feel hopeful knowing that I can feel turned on by another man.

    Thanks for listening ladies!

  114.  #114Daria on December 19, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    YAY LG!!!

  115.  #115Mary on December 19, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    Hi Terry: I LOVE it that you said this: “If he does manage to get out, he can come find me after the divorce and a lot of therapy.” How can i back you with this thought and help to further it? It sounds so healthy and right-on to me!

    Tinque: Your words are encouraging! I’m sitting here reading your book and it’s WONDERFUL! I’ve only just started and I can’t wait to read more.

    I love this man, even though my friends and family are so skeptical. Maybe he’s reached the right moment in his life when he can commit? I don’t know. It’s very IFFFFFFY.

    I was reading something the other day about affairs, and it said that there were about 5% of men in the world who would never have an affair. They are affair-proof, because of their family situation growing up, their character or their faith. I’ve met some of these men, and I want one! I don’t want to have to worry about a man shopping when he’s with me. That makes me feel a lot of fear!

    I know that no one is really affair proof, but some men are more than others. I just don’t know if I can deal with a man who’s looking around when he’s with me. I think I might rather be alone than be in that scenario. There is fear there. With this man, there is the fear that if I keep him, he’ll one day be looking around, and there is the fear of never having anyone else if I don’t keep him. I know that’s just unrealistic, but my feelings are bent out of shape about it.

    On the other hand, there is something that keeps me there! Yes ma’am. There is a lot that is keeping me there… !!!!! : )

  116.  #116Mary on December 19, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    Mmmmmm… B just called and wants to get together tonight. (Not the guy I love. R is the guy I love…)

    He said, “what did you have in mind?” I mean, HE called ME.

    and I said, “well, my brain is foggy right now from studying…”

    and he said, “do you want to come here, or do you want me to come there?” He lives slightly out of town, about a 40 minute drive through a mountain pass, which is treacherous at night.

    I started thinking… Well, my house is a mess. I don’t want him to come here. He just built a house, and he’s out of money for now. I understand that. I didn’t want to suggest for him to take me out. If he had suggested it, okay. Plus, I’m seriously considering not going out with him again. I don’t like his feminine energy.

    So he broke into my silence and said, “Why don’t you just come here?” And I said okay. I do love the forest around his house. And if I go there, I can leave whenever I want.

    Then he said, “Do you want to eat?” And I said, “Sure.”

    You know what? I’m gonna pay for myself. Then I’m gonna tell him I don’t want to see him any more.

    He doesn’t like to date. He’s the one who called and told me that the only way it could work for him to still see me is if he had a secure time each week to see me. Then he wouldn’t have to ask and be in competition with other men. He said he can’t stand rejection.

    He thinks he can just jump into an instant relationship and the woman starts paying for herself and he gets to “be himself” which he’s always talking about doing, which means sex whenever (and I haven’t gone there with him) and a companion for everything, and I wanted to date, and I don’t like his feminine energy.

    Do I sound mad?

    I am.

    Is this what Nikita was referring to as outgirling? He’s outgirling me! Nobody does that.

    I’m really mad now.

    Hey, maybe I do have some anger in there after all…

  117.  #117Nikita on December 19, 2009 at 2:58 pm

    Uh….grr… feeling out-girled….I left my roommate by the way

  118.  #118Flipper on December 19, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    “Do I sound mad?” Well, I’m glad to feel your Anger, Mary, but I also feel there’s a bit of “madness” as in mad to drive over a treacherous pass in the night to ‘outman’ some guy. (I feel worried.) It feels kinda overfunctiony, even tho’ it’s to get rid of him rather than to get him. With your boy hat on, is there something your Anger could do for you that’s more in your interest than spending any energy on him? And with your girlhat softly back on your curls, let him just girl himself off the radar? What do you think?

  119.  #119Mary on December 19, 2009 at 3:33 pm

    hmmmmm… i was thinking about that when i was in the shower.

    but call him and just say it isn’t working for me?

    what I was thinking was to just go over NOW, spend an hour, come back before dark, and not share a meal with him. just talk to him, say goodbye.


    what do you think of that?

  120.  #120Mary on December 19, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    i know, I’d still be going to HIM. but then i could control how much time i’m there… just say goodbye and leave. it’s even better than the phone because he talks and talks and talks ad infinitim. and i really don’t have time for a super long conversation. my time is more valuable than that! i need to be back so i can catch the latest on rori’s blog!!!!

    hey, this is almost more interesting than real life.

  121.  #121Mary on December 19, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    oooooh. i just talked to him. told him i was coming sooner. he’s BBQing. now i feel guilty! and that’ll put me on the road later…

    this is difficult.

  122.  #122Nikita on December 19, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    HEHEHE cuz he’s outgirling you at every turn 😉

  123.  #123Mary on December 19, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    what if i call him now and tell him i can’t see him any more?

    or what if i go and DON’T stay for BBQ?

    my options, but they seem so UNCARING.

    how can i care for ME?

    study. eat lean cuisine. stay home.

    but what about his expense in getting stuff for the BBQ?

    what about his anticipation? what about his feelings?

  124.  #124Mary on December 19, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    i think i might just call him.

    he can eat BBQ for two days.

  125.  #125laughing goddess on December 19, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    Thanks for your support Daria.

    Good luck with your decision Mary. I would use feeling messages to tell him you feel hesitant about going. Going just to say goodbye doesn’t feel right to me but only you know what feels right for you.

  126.  #126laughing goddess on December 19, 2009 at 4:15 pm

    He did just text me and say he wants to do that again sometime.

    I bet he does!!!

  127.  #127laughing goddess on December 19, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    He said:

    “Hey love. Thanks for sharing that experience with me. 🙂 I must say it was Yummy. We’ll have to do it again sometime. Big love. ”

    I feel unsure if I should respond or wait for him to ask me out again. He’s out of town for a few weeks for the holidays. What do y’all think?

    I picked up my new car AND had sex for the first time in two years on the same day. What a great day!!!!

  128.  #128Lisa on December 19, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    Mary referred us to some previous Rori posts, and there I read Cassandra’s comment of her man:

    “He is an emotional parasite. Perhaps I should be more afraid than I am of his comments but for some reason – I guess it has been going on for so long – I am not.”

    When I went to Dr. Vaknin’s site on narcissism, he made a great observation on why some women stick with a narcissist, without a seeming problem. It is because they explain to themselves that what they are hearing is not really dangerous. He likens it to hearing “ancient Chinese” — it is easy to tune out. He says the reason we do this is because we have heard the “Chinese” in our families of origin — it is familiar background noise to us.

    So, we must be mindful of being too accommodating or being in denial of bad behavior. Like Rori said, things are pretty simple: If he doesn’t call, he doesn’t want to call. If he wanted to be with you, he would be.

    The only time this gets screwed up is when one is dealing with someone with a personality disorder. He may want to be with you, sporadically, then treat you bad. Again, it is simply a matter of, “Do I feel good when I’m with him?” or do I feel anxious/sad/toyed with.

    I feel the latter stuff, so I reject this poor behavior, whatever the explanation. In my case, he always blamed me for “My mouth”! Said that I talked too much, or said the wrong things… How asinine! I literally see him as a character in a renaissance play, wearing a donkey’s head with ridiculous ears.

    I am sad that he is so inadequate, and that I have invested so much time into trying to make him so.

  129.  #129Flipper on December 19, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    Oh Mary I’m feeling so much NICENESS going on over there that I’m starting to feel like me, only now I’m willing to feel the ickiness part and I want it to take the lead from now on. I would like to be nice, but NOT if that conflicts with what I really want (and need) in order to feel good. Hugs (Now I’m going to bed, cuz that’s what I feel good doing at this late hour.)

  130.  #130Mary on December 19, 2009 at 5:17 pm

    Flipper, thanks. I called him. I put my girlhat way back on my long straight hair and told him with feeling statements that it wasn’t working for me.

    He cried.

    I feel like the scum of the earth now.

    But I think I’m relieved.

    And Lisa, your post makes me wonder about the other guy. I’ve read through that whole website of Sam’s. Wow is it interesting! I bought all of his books and read most of them. I loved everything you said, Lisa.

    Maybe I am a one-guy-at-a-time woman. I don’t know. I can’t see myself telling R that I’m gonna be dating other people, and now I have no one else to date. If we’re thinking about getting engaged, which is deciding to be married, isn’t it about time to figure out if the interest would stay around if the guys fall away?

    Why doesn’t anyone ever talk about sustainability? After the I Do’s?

  131.  #131Mary on December 19, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    If I had been there in person I might not have been able to do it. So I’m glad I called him.

    Now I’m hungry for BBQ.

  132.  #132tinque on December 19, 2009 at 5:27 pm

    “Why doesn’t anyone ever talk about sustainability? After the I Do’s?”

    Keep reading Mary; keep reading. I talk everything about it. Thank you so much for the kind words.

  133.  #133Mary on December 19, 2009 at 5:39 pm

    Ooooooooooh, GREAT! Thank you, Tinque! I’ll read on…

  134.  #134Mary on December 19, 2009 at 5:45 pm

    It just seems like if men are about the chase, and circular dating is so powerful because it gives them a chase, and spurs them on to do whatever they need to do to be able to claim the woman they want, WHAT THEN?

    What happens when you’re around the house with them, when the kids act up, when the holidays arrive and it’s money out, money out, money out! What happens when we don’t have the room or the space for dressing up for them, and what happens when they actually prevent us from spending money on the things that make us look beautiful? What happens when they make crummy observations about our family members? How does our degree of difficulty stay up when the other men fall away?

  135.  #135gina on December 19, 2009 at 5:55 pm

    G just came over and we had fun sex. I feel so super sexually attracted to him…not sure if I would feel better holding off on sex to get to really know eachother (although,I’m seeing that a dynamic built on NOT having sex could develop, and become primary to the relationship), OR if I’d like to continue so long as it feels good, and enjoy having sex with a masculine guy who I like, who is pursuing me….hmmm…He better watch out – I’m not gonna want to buy the cow (give up my life!!) if I’m getting the milk for free…

    He doesn’t like the fact that I’m having people over tonight. It’s past his bedtime, and he has no desire to hang out with other single dudes. He says he has enough dudes in his life, and that he’s actually trying to cut down. Hilarious! but the point is…that I may be dating him exclusively, but I’m still not HIS…mostly because I never will be more his than MINE, AND because we just aint there yet!

    Mary, you go girl (bummer that he cried, though – it’s so sad when guys cry…)

  136.  #136Mary on December 19, 2009 at 6:05 pm

    No, YOU go, Gina! Have fun tonight! Date yourself tonight… !!!

  137.  #137alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    i feel good to read the siren news today. lots of good stuff (AND SIRENS HAVING SEX! YAE! SIGN ME UP!)

    and new cars and new careers and tinque’s book and feelings messages and outgirling roomates and lots of good stuff.

    🙂 i feel smiley. 🙂

    i feel AMAZED that i feel this great considering the circumstances (“outward appearances”) of my life. but my current circumstances are residual from my old vibration and manifesting. I feel excited to see what my now excitement will reveal!!!

  138.  #138Mary on December 19, 2009 at 6:15 pm

    alias girl: mmmmmmm. you sound so…. smiley!

    i love it!

  139.  #139alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 6:16 pm

    i feel smiley mary and if i had bbq i would give it to you!!!! congrats on your taking care of yourself, leaning back and feeling messages!!

  140.  #140Mary on December 19, 2009 at 6:19 pm

    I feel better now. I didn’t pick up the slack with a man. I did not drive over the mountain pass like an idiot to say goodbye. Whoopeee! Thanks, Flipper. Now I’m going out to celebrate.

    Because that’s some real progress.

    Thanks, Rori.

    (now, just a little sneaky thing here… how will i keep the interest of my one and only?????)

    (my answer: it’s up to him! it’s all about the quality of the man! isn’t it?)

    I’m readying, Tinque. I think you would say no. I think you might say it’s all about loving yourself.

    I’m just not quite there yet…

  141.  #141Mary on December 19, 2009 at 6:20 pm

    Thanks, Alias Girl! Glad you’re having a better day!

  142.  #142alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    ok i’ve decided to contact some online men. i think i might decide to be the boy in my relationships. maybe that is my natural place. i feel tired of WAITING for men. eff that. i am waiting on no one. I am going to row by telling men to get rowing. hahaha.

    please row this boat. can’t you see we aren’t going anywhere but just melting in this sun and it might be nice for a little break to just hang out in a non rowing boat but long term it feels god awful. please start rowing and i will admire. thank you.

  143.  #143alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 6:32 pm

    ok yes get the river flowing, get the army of man back in the groove so i don’t have to feel so triggered by any of them individually.


    as long as it takes.

  144.  #144alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 6:38 pm

    i just wrote this to a guy


    if you like i can take you to coffee. what do you think?



    i am experimenting with being a boy. it may not get me what i want but it will surely get me something Different that what i have already experienced.

  145.  #145alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 6:40 pm

    and also i feel smiling and uplifted so that can only bring goodness.

  146.  #146Mary on December 19, 2009 at 6:40 pm

    you sound like you’re on a reckless rollercoaster and you’re on the upside down part!

  147.  #147Mary on December 19, 2009 at 6:40 pm

    okay, now you’re back on top!

  148.  #148alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 6:42 pm

    this is good also because i have the feeling of “being in control” which is always a big issue for me.

    i feel very excited about my new experiment of being a boy!

  149.  #149alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    i just asked some guy for his phone number.

  150.  #150alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 6:52 pm

    i just asked a man if he was “comfortable” with something. as the man, I am caring for his “feelings”.

  151.  #151janjune on December 19, 2009 at 6:53 pm

    happy holidays goddesses!!

    i’ve been busy getting ready for the holiday get-together at my house this year but have been (almost) keeping up reading the blog… Wow so much going on!!

    Jve been thinking about this year and the year coming up and feel such love for all the goddesses…so grateful for each voice.
    As i’m reading through the last two or three days’ comments and see the different names coming up, almost each name brings up a memory of something IMPORTANT i learned from that person. something life-changing– in that a limiting belief or perspective was broken by something that person said or something they shared that they were going through or a suggestion they had or some other way the communicated and shared their life.

    i feel kind of weepy because i think back to August to how much i was hurting …serious pain… no where to go just utter despair over the final end of a long time love. “The love of my life”. Gone. over. final. kaputt. 🙂
    i just had no idea that i would ever feel this good let alone in just the short two months time that it took me to really “get” rori’s message. it’s even carried over to family and other relationships.
    and i’m just at the beginning….
    but this blog and the successes and struggles and sharing and encouragement, advice, correction of the goddesses here, makes rori’s program hum!

    so i wanted to say i love each and every one of you goddesses and rori and thank you all for this virtual reality called SIREN ISLAND!

  152.  #152janjune on December 19, 2009 at 7:57 pm

    does rori have any information on how to handle women in your life who ostracize you when you’re using rori’s tools and they get jealous of the attention you’re getting?

    the times i’ve gone out and really done what rori says to do, it does work and the men DO respond and you DO get their attention—- absolutely!!!

    BUT the women who WANT the attention and DON’T get it — well I’ve seen them standing there —in one case, watching– blatantly, openly watching– like they couldn’t fathom what was going on –because the two alpha males in the group were BOTH just almost silly and drawn to me and not paying attention to anything but me, trying to make sure i was comfortable, one had his hand in the small of my back, leading me along protectively (a biker guy– so this type of gallant, protective, chivalrous (?) behavior was not his ordinary style!! ) apparently mesmerized and ALL i was doing was “Open Heart”.
    Just Open Heart!!! that’s it!
    thats all i knew because i was so new to rori.
    I couldn’t believe it myself!!

    in another case, within this same group of new acquaintances, one of the women began competeing with me to the point of interrupting this (same) male who was speaking (but was directing his eye contact to me 95% of the time and leaning his body toward me) while speaking to the group of the four of us.

    I could see him stiffened his neck against her and stick his chin up and out against her and finally totally ignore her altogether when after the third or fourth time of her trying to comandeer the conversation, she still didn’t quit.
    She kept it up SIX OR SEVEN times!

    In the end, he shut her out completely, to the point of it being embarrassing for everyone there.

    in that instance it felt more like his repsonse to her trying to “outman” him by taking over the conversation than it did to him being attracted to me.

    But needless to say i haven’t been invited to hang out with this group of women again and would like to know if any of you goddesses have had this happen.

    does rori have any information on it?


  153.  #153janjune on December 19, 2009 at 8:13 pm

    well, i guess i’m out here sunbathing on The Island all by myself tonight!


    …just going over this past year in my mind.
    never thought i’d be in such a good place.

  154.  #154alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    interesting experiment i am having. i am actually enjoying it. well good, i have found a way to enjoy circular dating.

    janjune any energy dynamic takes two in my experience with life.

    last night i made a list of the top three people who were annoying me in my life. i made a list of their super annoying qualities. and then i went and crossed off their name out and put my own name as the beholder of those super annoying, repulsive qualities.

    and then i FLIPPED the qualities to the opposite. and that is how i want to BE. so that is my focus. being who i want to be.

  155.  #155janjune on December 19, 2009 at 8:49 pm

    probably everybody’s out Circular Dating :)…

    i gave it up when my computer shut down.
    it actually felt good to not have to force myself to try to circular date. ew.
    still haven’t absorbed the total value of it… i understand it in my head…free therapy, practice on men you don’t want, see what men are really about… i just don’t like spending my time on people i don’t like. yikes. who would willingly spend time with frogs?
    however, “it’s about the message not the man”
    just need to remember that and i can do it.

    guess another thing is this:
    I don’t like seeing the darker side of men.

    it feels slimy and disturbing to know what some men have in their hearts. i take that on to myself as disrespect for me. omg, i cant believe i feel that way but i do!! i feel ill realizing that. that being around people like that makes me feel bad about myself. i take it on myself. omg, this is a new revelation.
    why do *I* feel disrespected?
    i didn’t do anything.
    i don’t even know them.
    okay, it’s because i’m there. because i am allowing it. because i am there.

    so, lesson learned: when i feel that from people. just get up and leave.

    of course i do and always have, but not before i try to be nice and smooth things over and act like nothing is wrong and try to get out of it gracefully.
    I don’t want to do that aymore.
    I want to just get up and LEAVE!
    That’s going to be a big one for me!
    Not playing nicey nice.
    Just— when i get *that feeling* i don’t like—
    no explanations, no bowing out, no excuses, — just
    “You’re not for me. Bye.”
    Just like that.
    No regrets
    No backthinking.
    No second guesses.

    Just KNOW it, SAY it and get up and leave.

  156.  #156janjune on December 19, 2009 at 8:53 pm

    i will give myself this holiday week coming up and the week before New Year’s to enjoy NOT seeing the frogginess in men and then January 2, I am making a commitment to myself to finish getting on POF.

    i have actually met three men just being out and about since my computer went down, but they’re ALL married. Yick. What a turn off to see married men so ready to attach to another woman’s energy, doesn’t make me feel very good about men.
    of course they tell you they’re married but feels like they’re telling you to see if it makes any difference to you… NOT because they’re being faithful to their wives…

    so i guess that’s part of the program, too. SEEING.
    Really SEEING for once, what’s going on.
    Yes, that feels consistent with rori’s program of seeing what you don’t want so you can respond in a way that’s respectful to yourself (and others) when you find a man you could actually be happy with.

    i am going to spend the next to weeks getting over fighting against circular dating.
    and hope i can come up on the other side embracing it for what it is.
    the Message, not the Man.
    The Man will come from somewhere else.

    Need to work on this. Still feeling much resistance. I feel protective of my time and myself and my psyche of not letting people I find creepy into my world.

    i know there’s a huge lesson here though.

  157.  #157Tina on December 19, 2009 at 9:24 pm

    I wanna have sex! 🙂

    I started my period today, I feel relief. I also noticed that men like me when I’m feeling stable, I mean hormonally. I either fight or break up just before my period, they run for the hills. I feel bad after, like why do they only like me when I’m feeling balanced lol. Why do they fight me for being a woman? I dunno…

    I feel sad now. I really could just have a man anytime I want, for whatever suits me at the time. So why dont I just do it. Have lots of lovers, not necessarily sexual, just have men to do stuff for me? Men who love me:) lots! I can, I can I can oh its Christmas time!

  158.  #158alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 9:28 pm

    so the one guy turned out to be really cool. i feel so interested and invigorated. i feel very empowered. i feel excited and intriguied.

    and it was so funny to see men react the way i used to. one guy was like “oh i don’t know, i feel a little cautious” about giving out his phone number. hee hee.

    and then at the end of one phone call i told the guy i was going to call him again and maybe we could go out and what did he think? and there was just this long pause.

    which is EXACTLY how i used to respond because it felt too soon and i felt stunned and hee hee. often the men would take my pause as a lack of interest but it wasn’t, it was more fear. and when this guy did it i just felt so enlightened. i told him well, i am going to call again and if you like, you can pick up the phone. 🙂

    i feel very good.

  159.  #159alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 9:30 pm


    tina i feel good you got your christmas tree back under control!

    you can have your way with the men in your life!

  160.  #160janjune on December 19, 2009 at 9:31 pm

    alias girl,
    i’m taking what you said to mean i was annoying those other women who were in the group i was in…
    Is that the message?

    but i’d like to know if there’s a way to practice Rori’s tools around other women and not have them feel like all the male energy is being taken away from THEM.

    As I am ending up feeling like I can either practice the tools and ostracize the women I want to be friends with, or give up using the tools when I’m with other women.

    I haven’t found a way to practice Rori’s tools *a little bit* or by degrees. I mean, when I have practiced them, no matter how inocuously — men RESPOND….Rori’s right! They just DO.

    But other women notice that!

    And even if you’re not practicing the tools toward any particular man, they STILL notice. When you are just BEING, they notice and they love it and they respond and they do it in such a big way that other people notice. Married men. young men. old men, handsome men, not so handsome men. It’s just incredible.

    So, short of coaching other women on the spot about the tools, i was wondering if the goddesses knew of a way to make WOMEN feel more comfortable around you when you’re practicing Rori’s tools. like does anyone have a way of incorporating the other women in the group into the “magic” of the tools.

    In my situation, i was not really after these men, but was just having fun being with them, flirting, etc., having fun being with a new group of friends…

    But roris tools are more powerful than i thought at first.

  161.  #161alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 9:32 pm

    hah i found some food i scrounged up for dinner which means i don’t have to go out which pleases me because i am trying to take it easy to avoid the cold that tried to sneak up on me. but i caught it and doused it with vitamin c and now i feel like i have outhealthed it. which is good because i feel excited about my new job prospects and men prospects and i want to go shopping and work out. yae!

  162.  #162alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 9:37 pm

    janjune i did not call you annoying. i don’t know if you were annoying the other women or not.

    what i said was that in my experience any energy dynamic takes both parties

    i actually don’t know how to convey my meaning.

    let me think…

    oh i know…

    when in doubt i will just subsitute an abraham quote:

    “There has never been an injustice anywhere in this physical time/space reality or anywhere else. Law of Attraction does not promote injustice. Law of Attraction amplifies the vibration that is within you. ”
    — Abraham

    does this help?

  163.  #163Mary on December 19, 2009 at 9:41 pm

    wellllllllll… janjune…

    you must be a siren of a woman. and the most sireny of them all will be able to be friends with women AND attract men. you will work it out. there is a way…

    … the way is in the giving, not the taking. when people feel like you’re taking from them (the men in the room, their own feelings of attractiveness, etc.), they feel bad feelings about you and about themselves.

    how to give them good feelings about themselves? practice the tools on them, too.


    ask questions…

    lean back and consider them…

    offer some of the men on a silver platter to them…

    have a “we’re all sirens on the same island” attitude…

    the root of it all is in the “there is enough for everyone” attitude. be co-conspirators with them. giggle your way to the restroom and whisper in their ears. give them a few tips along the way!

    just my thoughts! treasure or trash…

  164.  #164janjune on December 19, 2009 at 9:42 pm

    that sounds so familiar!
    men heading for the hills during that time!!

    one guy i went with for four years finally got the pattern down because we broke up about every thirty days! And finally he said from now on, I’m just going to leave you alone and let you get your rest and i’m not going anywhere but i know you need to rest.

    so after that, when i’d just first start being hard to get along with, we’d both just smile and he’d kiss me and hug me and tell me he loved mwe and he’d be back. it was comical really. i knew he was right even though i wanted to fight about it!

    after that, i started telling men up front when i knew i liked them and wanted to keep them around that I will be not myself and please feel free to leave when i am like that, but please come back!! I’m telling yu because i want you to come back. Some understood it and some didn’t want to but i felt like i had a handle on it. it wasn’t ruining things for me anymore.

    you sound like you don’t have a problem with finding other men though if one leaves. but i’m just sharing this in case because it worked so well for me with a couple of guys who i think would have left if i hadn’t explained it and offered a solution.

  165.  #165Mary on December 19, 2009 at 9:45 pm

    i’ve seen women do this, and while every man in the room is panting over them, and they’re aware of it, they’re giving me attention and making me feel wonderful, and consequently some of the men in the room become attentive to me, and everyone is just winning, winning and winning. it makes them seem so generous and giving that it doubles the attraction of the men.

  166.  #166Mary on December 19, 2009 at 9:48 pm

    Wow Jan June!

    That gave me so much insight into my man! He has intimacy fears, and when we get really close, he back away. I used to take it personally, but I don’t care as much since we got back together. (Actually, it hasn’t happened yet.)

    Maybe what I need to do is just give him some personal space to sort himself out, and quit worrying about him. It used to make me feel so unattractive, but I don’t really think it has anything to do with that. It might be that he’s too attracted to me. Sometimes I think that…

  167.  #167Mary on December 19, 2009 at 9:51 pm

    alias girl: WOW, man!

    go for it! i love it that you’re just calling these guys and saying stuff like that! lil scared for you, but it’s like being scared for a professional rock climber… you’d be scared if it was you, but you know they’re not…

    pretty cool.

  168.  #168janjune on December 19, 2009 at 9:51 pm

    i have not found that with rori’s tools.

    there are friends i’ve had for years that, yes, we operate that way… like nobody is the center of attention in the group even if men are trying to give all the attention to one woman… like each woman in the groups targets the man she wants to talk to and the others just leave him alone.

    but i haven’t been with that group of women since learning rori’s tools. it will be interesting.

    i think rori’s tools are out and beyond that… that men are responding from some primordial place in their brain.

  169.  #169Mary on December 19, 2009 at 9:53 pm

    alias girl: a lil zinc might help, but don’t take it on an empty stomach.

  170.  #170janjune on December 19, 2009 at 9:53 pm

    but mary,
    i love your suggestions and will try to consciously use them before using rori’s tools again when i’m with a group of women.

    i cherish my friendships with women and want to keep them!

  171.  #171alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 9:54 pm

    ah quick and dirty. french fries, black beans and a smoothie. easy and done.

    thanks mary! yes it just feels like a great adventure to me. i don’t feel scared at all. 🙂

  172.  #172Mary on December 19, 2009 at 9:55 pm

    that is something to ponder, janjune. thank you for your perspective.

  173.  #173Mary on December 19, 2009 at 9:56 pm

    i’m wondering which tools you’re using that are working so well?

  174.  #174janjune on December 19, 2009 at 9:58 pm

    yes mary,
    it’s like rori keeps saying, they just want to hear it in words they can understand.

    “…here’s what’s going on with me, here’s how I feel.
    What do you think?”

    so simple!

    so hard for us females!!

  175.  #175janjune on December 19, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    i was only using “Open Heart” both times.

  176.  #176Mary on December 19, 2009 at 10:02 pm

    thank you! i’ve really not been out and about since i learned about rori. these guys came out of the blue, before i was even ready, and i suddenly had to make all these decisions…

  177.  #177janjune on December 19, 2009 at 10:05 pm

    i had wondered different times about using the tools on women, as mary suggested.

    has anybody done this?

    if you have would you mind sharing?

    I have tried to do “Open Heart” with women, but only my best friends and family seem to respond to it. The people who (I know) love me feel like they are receiving warm vibrations from me.
    Other women, women I don’t know — the energy back to me feels chaotic and confused. so i quit.

  178.  #178alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 10:07 pm

    i feel interested in my new perspective. why do i feel more entitled and powerful in my boy energy?

    like i am calling the shots. of when i’ll call and what we’ll do and where we’ll go. i mean i am taking the man into consideration but i feel like i am steering the ship.

    i wish someone could feel what i feel and relate to it right now. because it is so hugely shifting for me. and what’s funny too is suddenly the men want to wrangle back into the man position.

    it’s like here you were just stalking my profile making no moves and now i made a move and am taking charge and you want to be in charge. well


    we’ll see. maybe i will just be the man. i will make the money. i will set the dates and i will keep them all just waiting. being the woman blows when it comes to that aspect. being the boy is way better. so glad i figured this out.

    i will NEVER wait on a man again. rori says no waiting.

    no waiting, no way.

  179.  #179janjune on December 19, 2009 at 10:07 pm

    i know it’s a whole different ballgame when you’re not ready!
    I wasn’t ready for the responses i received either time in that group as i thought of the tools as just for fun.

    didn’t realize the IMPACT they had on men.

  180.  #180Mary on December 19, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    alias girl: it could be that making the first move is just fine! then sit back and – like you said – admire his muscles when he picks up the oars.

  181.  #181Tina on December 19, 2009 at 10:11 pm

    Thank you Alias girl, I was wondering if this was ‘bad” thing to do. ok Merry Christmas!

  182.  #182Mary on December 19, 2009 at 10:12 pm

    janjune: i’ve done it, but in my own way, not the exact rori raye way. similar, though. just like i said: smiling consideration and co-conspiratoring.

  183.  #183alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 10:15 pm

    now poof! i’ve got four men i am interested in. all four responded. i could have a RIVER of men very shortly.

    🙂 i know probably none of y’all are going to understand me and i feel ok with that. i feel i am on my HAPPY EVER AFTER.

    haha! mary i just read your comment just this second. YES! i feel i am on to something. i will end up with the man who wrangles back his rightful position. and the others well, i’ll just have my way with them!!! xoxox

    tina it depends on how you feel. i feel Great having my way with the world. in my belief system the universe WANTS to please me oh oh oh so much.

  184.  #184alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 10:17 pm

    haha but i literally have to keep a notebook like rori suggests…

    and a date book!

  185.  #185Tracy on December 19, 2009 at 10:18 pm

    Reading your post made me feel optimistic about opening myself up regarding sex and sharing myself with a man when the time is right.I too have been closed up about getting involved with another man since my last relationship but i have been dating lots of guyz and its helped me build my self esteem a whole lot…
    I feel excited excited about new men coming into my life and enjoying and having fun and just feeling good about being alive…
    I say yes to fun good sex and loving relationships!

    I feel a shift in my perceptive…..this new me feels really good

  186.  #186alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    and it’s funny too because i can see how a guy can get taken by surprise by a girl.

    like he didn’t expect to like her that much but then bam! something just clicks and they get along and it’s just easy and right and the man would start to reconsider his position of having a bunch of women.

    i feel like i am getting a glimpse of the WHOLE ENCHILADA. an overview, if you will.

  187.  #187Mary on December 19, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    well, i thought i might want to have a back-and-forth existence (canada – u.s.), so i found a very handsome guy in austin, where i have family, and i emailed him. great response, and he wanted to meet me, so when i went there last summer, we met over coffee. just for 30 minutes. he said he was gonna come visit me this christmas. it just got to chaotic, so i discouraged him, but even in november he was thinking about it. so that was a very good experience, and i initiated it.

    i like the idea of sneaking around with a hidden profile so it’s not so confusing… then i just contact the guys i like and let them take it from there.

    but i’m not online now.

    i’m still wondering what to do with my One and Only.

  188.  #188alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 10:23 pm

    also it weeds out the men who i can’t win with either way. they don’t want to be the man, they don’t want to be the woman. they just want to stay online and FANTASIZE.

  189.  #189Tracy on December 19, 2009 at 10:24 pm

    I love the shift……Feels like a Goddess feeling to me.
    I love that one can feel strong and powerful and yet feminine at the same time.I love the feeling that i am in control of how i feel and how i choose to live my life…
    This has been the best gift for me….i have managed to regain my power back…i am in charge of my happiness…i make it happen…Yay…

  190.  #190janjune on December 19, 2009 at 10:24 pm

    another thing that happened awhile back before i realized how much RORI’S tools ACTUALLY impact a man,

    i was standing in the grocery store line bored because the line wasn’t moving, so i decided i’d “OpenHeart” the man in front of me who, of course, had his back to me.

    I did open heart and then a modified version of the fountain. i did it for about 10 seconds and the man started shuffling his feet around. then about two seconds later he looked down at the floor on his left.

    I about jumped out of my skin!
    I smiled real quickly and grabbed a magazine.
    But he kept turning around smiling trying to make conversation.
    But I had scared myself!

    He waited for me at the end of the check out line when he had his groceries, but i ignored him and went back into the store to find my mom who had come with me.
    I thought all was well, but when we went out to the parking lot, he was out there driving around and he had left like 3-4 minutes earlier. i saw him and he started driving toward my mom and I. I got over to my car and he pulled up in front of it.
    i just smiled, and nodded like “have a good day” and jumped in my car.

    My mother was looking at me and back at him and she said, “Well, what’s with him?!” What does he want?”

    THAT was when I realized the full impact rori’s tools have on men.

    I actually quit using the tools after that. It scared me. and gave me respect for the tools and for the effect it has on men. It just spooked me for awhile.

    Because it’s not how sireney *I* am, it’s that the tools work.

    So with my computer being down i’ve had a chance to get some of this under my belt and i feel ready to give it a try again.

    but CAREFULLY and with forethought this time!

  191.  #191Mary on December 19, 2009 at 10:25 pm

    i’m gonna go read some more of Tinque’s book.


  192.  #192alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 10:25 pm

    no waiting, no way.

    is my new slogan.

  193.  #193Mary on December 19, 2009 at 10:28 pm

    Tracy, I was thinking about that, too…

    Yes, maybe people have message for us, but I wonder if it might not work the other way, too? Sometimes we might be involved with people because we have messages for them? In religious terms it might be called divine providence. Whatever it might be called, the idea is that there is a force out there with an agenda for each of us.

    I feel a “lil mad” (daria, i’m talking your talk!) at “meant to be.”

    I feel a lil irritated with “everything happens for a reason.”

    I feel “resistance” (ala alias girl) to “everything always works out in the end.”

    I feel happy when I imagine a creator force out there. I feel cozy and warm thinking that there might be a plan, possibly even an individual plan for me, but I don’t feel ecstatic when I think that I’m just a puppet in the “meant to be” of my life.

    i feel so excited that the little, tiny decisions in my life are mine to make! maybe God or the universe or the force brings opportunities my way, but I decide about them. So many times I want to give the decision over, and so many times it’s still there for me to make! Whoever He is, He’s waiting for my move half of the time! That makes me feel so important. So ALIVE. So much of a partaker in my own life.

  194.  #194alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 10:28 pm

    thanks tracy yes i actually feel more secure which allowed me to be more open. so it’s an odd little twist i’ve taken here. but i feel good to hear your support.

    and i feel good you are feeling good about the prospect of opening yourself back up and have excitement about that. i feel so happy to hear you take accountability for your happiness.

  195.  #195janjune on December 19, 2009 at 10:32 pm

    thanks mary i am going to try OpenHeart on women again. it feels authentic.
    if i get that weird vibe back again, i’ll just stop again.

  196.  #196alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 10:42 pm

    oh my gosh i almost totally forgot that i told this guy i would call him after ten. just totally forgot about it like five minutes after i said it.

    i understand!!!!! I UNDERSTAND!!!!!!!!

    omg this is so totally colossal for me.

  197.  #197Mary on December 19, 2009 at 10:42 pm

    maybe open hearts come from a place of joy and contentment. for me, that’s in the tension of the opposites:

    of myself and I am responsible for my feelings and actions.


    to the universe / creator / God

    the challenge for me is to be somewhere in the middle.

  198.  #198Mary on December 19, 2009 at 10:44 pm

    okay, i’m too deep for myself tonight. i’m gonna go read…

  199.  #199alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 10:44 pm

    it just doesn’t mean that much UNTIL it does.

  200.  #200alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 10:47 pm

    no hard feelings. that’s how a guy can say “no hard feelings”

    that’s how a guy can be not invested yet.

    dang when i was in girl mode i was INVESTED before the first phone call. are you kidding me? and i was so easily triggered. omg i was INVESTED FAR FAR TOO INVESTED BEFORE I EVEN MET THE GUY!!!

    ahahahahaha and now in boy mode i forgot that i promised to call five minutes after i said it.

    haha i feel very self amused

  201.  #201Mary on December 19, 2009 at 10:50 pm

    well, maybe one more thing…

    in early october, before ANY man was surfacing, i signed up for two dating clubs: four plus four and it’s just lunch. i was gonna get started november 1st, but when it got busy, i postponed, and the director of it’s just lunch said she had the perfect man for me! then i put it off until december 1st.

    i really love R, but he has so many issues.

    J is the guy i met who’s just getting a divorce, but he’s not on my radar yet because he’s not divorced yet. lovestop 101. an occasional bleep from his direction does make me factor him into the future in a vague way, so… i’d like to be available when or if he comes around. i think i’ll hear from him on Christmas day…

    I don’t want to lose R, but I kinda want to try out these dating clubs…

    what are the chances that I could keep him and do that? that would give me some time in case J comes around…

  202.  #202laughing goddess on December 19, 2009 at 10:51 pm

    Tracy: your energy feels great to me. I know very good things are coming to you this very moment.

    Same to you Janjune. It feels good to be reminded about how powerful the tools are.

    AG: I love hearing about your boy energy experiment. I really feel good about it working!

  203.  #203alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 10:52 pm

    thanks LG!!!!! i feel GREAT to hear about your sexcapades!

    YES! I feel very GOOD about dating now!

  204.  #204Mary on December 19, 2009 at 10:54 pm

    and just writing that out and reading it – it sounds so NOT LOYAL.

    but R is a trickster. a gangster player man. i want to be tricky, too. i want to play!

  205.  #205janjune on December 19, 2009 at 10:57 pm

    alias girl,
    i didn’t know, before, whether the annoying part you commented about was part of the comment to me “janjune any energy dynamic takes two in my experience with life. ” it felt like it could’ve fit the situation i was asking about because i’m sure it was annoying to those women seeing that they excluded me from their group.

    later you commented:
    ““There has never been an injustice anywhere in this physical time/space reality or anywhere else.
    Law of Attraction does not promote injustice.
    Law of Attraction amplifies the vibration that is within you. ”
    — Abraham

    i feel intrigued by
    “Law of Attraction amplifies the vibration that is within you”,
    meaning, to me,
    you’re attracted to that which is like you as well as that which is like you is attracted TO you…that there’s no mystery there,…you just attracted what you ARE?

    so in this case, with the women feeling put off by the men’s response to me when i used rori’s tools, (I have not studied the LofAttr or read the secret or anything about the LofAttrac), did that, as far as the LofAttr goes mean I had a put off feeling toward them and they responded to me in like manner? sounds like it but i just don’t know anything about the Law.

    if so, that is a very interesting concept to think about but would appreciate knowing whether i have interpreted this the way you put it out there.


  206.  #206Mary on December 19, 2009 at 10:57 pm

    mmmmmm… maybe I have so many issues…

  207.  #207alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    janjune i also feel put off. and probably likewise. so there you go. law of attraction at work.

    i felt ignored when i was trying to help. i don’t feel like trying to help anymore. let people work it out for themselves. anytime i try to “help” i end up feeling bad. and so i am done trying to “help” people.

    i am an example that’s it. people like me or don’t. thats on them.

    but i am done giving my offers of help even when people ask. unless i have already established a bond of trust with them or that person is a close friend of mine.

    so janjune. i wish you the best and there is lots of information online about the law of attraction if it interests you.

    and thank you. this was very helpful for me.

  208.  #208Mary on December 19, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    i practe open heart with all the people in the room


    needing a particular response from any of them



  209.  #209alias girl on December 19, 2009 at 11:04 pm

    i am going to call one of my men in a few minutes. and i am going to ask him questions. and carry the conversation and then ask him out for coffee!

  210.  #210janjune on December 19, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    i feel intrigued by your boy experiment too and the aha you’ve already had about forgetting to call him and about being too invested as a girl before anything even gets off the ground!

    what it feels like to have to carry the ball!

    in our girl energy trying to push them toward what we want them to do must feel like an awfully heavy burden to them, something they know they will fail at b/c they know they will “mess up” and it’s just a matter of time before we don’t like them for not being perfect.

    another revelation to self tonight!!!

  211.  #211Mary on December 19, 2009 at 11:11 pm

    AG: i can’t tear myself away from your experiment. what questions are you gonna ask?

  212.  #212janjune on December 19, 2009 at 11:22 pm

    alias girl,

    i can understand you not wanting to help people anymore.
    you do give out alot here.
    you are always trying to help and encourage and uplift and cheer the goddesses on.
    i can imagine it feels draining.

    i didn’t know how to respond to what you said at first, so i just let it “gel” trying to see if i could see if from a different perspective– if i let it set, because sometimes people say things on this blog and i don’t “get it” because they are coming from such a different perspective.

    anyway, i let it set and still wasn’t sure i’d picked up your message right, so braved it and threw it out there the way i understood it to see if that was what you meant.

    But it wasn’t, so now i am dealing with being told to go away because i didn’t get it soon enough.
    which is hard for me because i am such a people pleaser and a smoother over-er and so invested in pleasing people.

    but outside of feeling hurt and embarrassed, i feel certain you are doing what you want and will learn something from you doing so.


  213.  #213janjune on December 19, 2009 at 11:25 pm

    i meant to say:

    and *I* will learn something from you doing so.

  214.  #214Mary on December 19, 2009 at 11:28 pm

    janjune: when i read AG’s post saying “it takes two” i didn’t feel any twitches like she might be talking down to you or thinking that you were being uppity or any of that. it seemed to me like she was just throwing an idea out there to think about. just something to consider. it didn’t seem that personal to me, or like a slam on you.

  215.  #215janjune on December 19, 2009 at 11:41 pm

    thanks for your comment mary.
    i just didn’t understand what was a response to my question and what wasn’t and tried to figure it out before i commented.

    it’s okay.

    people can do what they want on here.

    i respect people’s choices. that feels good.

  216.  #216Tina on December 19, 2009 at 11:50 pm

    I desire lots of men 🙂 one for everyday! ok maybe not, this leads me to not be focused on my goals.

    I think my “real feelings” come out around my “time” hehe. I just want the bullshit to end, like just fuck off and leave me alone. I feel drained of all energy but they want more grrr. So for now I’ll just be admired 🙂 when I’m feeling in a good mood. “truckman” was online, he’s profile popped up while I was emailing “well man” he drills wells hehe. He says he makes prefect 6 inch holes in the ground awe lol. It’s a family business he took over. anway, he seems ok, I want to have sex with him:) He never emailed me before, just looking at my profile, then bam he emails me and weve been back and forth for the pass few days. If he lived closer I would so feel like “doing” him:) ok so at least make out with him. I cant wait for this my “time” to end, its giving me back pain grrr. not so much irritability, most of the time I mean when I say my “moods” I mean my truthfullness comes out. I think it’s my hormones I dont know. Is it quite possible that I already met my forever and I fucked up lol, so now it’s just about meeting a man, having lots of sex and then getting in a fight over something stupid around my “time” and moving on? There isnt a lot I can do right now, my class is shut down till new years , in the mean time , I ll just chase men the rori raye way . I really do feel like making out with some guy, I’ll find one to make out with 🙂

  217.  #217Mary on December 19, 2009 at 11:54 pm

    well, janjune: i keep throwing my problems out there (on here) and no one is solving them. (although some very good feedback and feeling messages!) back to my idea about being thankful for life’s decisions and claiming the fact that making my own decisions is forming my personality and giving me some interaction with the world. I keep thinking God will step in and make decisions for me, but i keep having choices that have to be made now. so i’m back to me again. and the way i’m trying to do it is that little joy formula… i’m in charge + i give up.

  218.  #218janjune on December 20, 2009 at 12:03 am

    it did trigger me though for about 5-7 minutes though–
    that felt like getting sweaty and cold at the same time.

    that felt like hot and flushing from public embarrassment for not being quick enough to figure it out.
    for public censure for being unworthy.
    for summary dismissal for being less than.

    that felt like:
    no blood going to my feet.
    sweaty palms,
    tingling in my limbs,
    pain in the heart region,
    stifling a sob because i shouldn’t sob,
    a vortex of swirly dark gray energy mixed with spaces of nothing that i couldn’t make sense of.
    brain quit working

    then wanting to eat something fattening
    and also something sugary—i’m eating chips and drinking a coke now!

    that triggered the feelings i had over and over in my past from someone important in my life.

    this is good to feel them again. i am trying to hold on to them so i can work through them as i know they’re not for me anymore.

    i am still me no matter what anyone else says.

    i know my motives and intentions even while another person may not know them.

    i feel better able to handle these feelings having gotten to “be with” them , in the soup.

  219.  #219Tina on December 20, 2009 at 12:06 am

    I used to like this guy’s profile but I dont anymore. I saw his other pic and no I dont like it. I did add him to my faves, I emailed him he never emailed me back, a woman left a “testimonial” on his profile, lol ok im being mean now,anyway lol. yeah! So I saved myself some grief, I used to feel all rejected when I would email a guy and he never emailed me back. I dont anymore, from this guy and her “testimonial” pic oh god, ok stop stop stop. I’m feeling judgmental again , I vote for me! ok stop brain stop feeling judgmental.

  220.  #220Tina on December 20, 2009 at 12:10 am

    Who do I pick to make out with:) God bless the men that have the courage to email me from now on 🙂 oooh, I just want to play “let’s kiss”

  221.  #221janjune on December 20, 2009 at 12:10 am

    it seems like you have things pretty well under control in that both you and the man you really love are BOTH looking around and also keeping each other in mind.
    to me that sounds like the perfect situation.

  222.  #222Tina on December 20, 2009 at 12:15 am

    His other pic turned out not so great, he did look kinda make out material in his main pic then I looked at his profile FINALLY and didnt like the other one, then his ‘testimonial” good grief!

  223.  #223Mary on December 20, 2009 at 12:16 am

    janjune, (and not to ignore you, tina!):

    i wish i could be as expressive as you! i’m learning. thanks for sharing how you feel. i loved your posts tonight and can’t wait to go out and do Open Heart and watch it happen!

    By the way, something happened like that at the grocery store to me, but it was the opposite. I felt this energy behind me. It was strong and powerful, and i had to turn around and see who it was coming from. It was a guy! I looked quickly back at the clerk. Then he tapped on my shoulder, said he recognized me from where i used to live! We talked for a minute and he told me which suite he bought. He had a wonderful attitude about him. I loved talking to him.

    So… I wrote him a letter, because I knew his address, because I used to live there! It just said this: I enjoyed chatting with you at Thrifty’s. Do you ever walk along the pathway? Love to join you sometime.” And he emailed me and invited me! And I got to his place and realized that he was too young for me! And told him so right away. And we laughed and had some tea and chatted for a while, and now we’re good friends.

  224.  #224janjune on December 20, 2009 at 12:16 am

    what is a testimonial in the on-line dating world?

  225.  #225alias girl on December 20, 2009 at 12:17 am

    janjune i feel good you are taking accountability for your own feelings and good to realize no one told you to “go away” as you felt you had been told. no one said that to you or implied it.

    i am responding to your comment “so now i am dealing with being told to go away because i didn’t get it soon enough.”

    i don’t recall anyone saying that to you. i recall telling you i was going to stop “helping” people and that i had felt put off.

    but i feel good to read all your feelings and you being in touch with your true feelings in regards to being triggered.

  226.  #226Mary on December 20, 2009 at 12:19 am

    i don’t feel in control tonight. R hasn’t called. he’s at whistler, #1 pick-up place in the world. that feels like he’s torturing me (yes, i’m throwing blame). i’m upset about it. feel like breaking up with him.

  227.  #227alias girl on December 20, 2009 at 12:19 am

    so i talked with one of my guys i am courting and at the end i told him i would call him again. he said,”oh are you still incharge then”

    i said yes. but only by default. the position is open.

    he said, “oh yes then i would like to take charge. when is a good time to call you?”


  228.  #228alias girl on December 20, 2009 at 12:21 am

    i actually feel OPEN AND CURIOUS about these men. sincerely curious and open. just like rori suggests. only it’s natural now.

    this has been FABULOUSO!

    and they have all been so KIND.

    before i was all defensive and annoyed. and now…

    i feel relieved. i have found my min solution.

  229.  #229alias girl on December 20, 2009 at 12:23 am

    dating has taken the fun curve.

  230.  #230janjune on December 20, 2009 at 12:25 am

    yes, mary it’s part of rori’s program to just go right into your feelings and figure out what they are and just feel them and notice each one. write them down. on here on the blog. kind of for your own record and also others might identify with that feeling you are expressing.
    She teaches to notice
    WHAT am I feeling?
    How does that FEEL in my body?
    am i feeling tingling in my legs, does my heart hurt, is my neck and jaw tight when i am faced with dealing with this?
    In order to identify what FEELING OUR FEELINGS EVEN *FEELS* LIKE for those who had to or chose to shut themselves off from their feelings to survive or for whatever the reason.
    Rori is a genius.
    I’ve never grown through so many feelings in my life.
    I love rori’s program and rori and ALL the goddesses!

  231.  #231Mary on December 20, 2009 at 12:26 am

    did you talk about the fact that you were taking charge?

  232.  #232Mary on December 20, 2009 at 12:32 am

    okay. thx.

    i feel nauseated. stomach upset. diarrhea. eyes stinging (from too much comuter.) i look in the mirror and i’m not looking so good. kinda yellowish. i can’t eat.

    i’ve been in better relationships before. i had a higher level of trust, and the guys didn’t go to whistler by themselves if i was at home studying. okay, i wasn’t at home. i went up island. and he was probably upset that i left. understandable.

    but he called me the first night at 6:30pm. the second night at 5:30pm. and not tonight.

    lots to do at night in whistler.



    but part of me is observant and standing back and nonchalant. just watching. indifferent. not caring. ready to pounce and decide: NOT R!

    it’s my head watching out for my heart.

  233.  #233alias girl on December 20, 2009 at 12:35 am

    tina i feel amused.

    yes mary i told him i had taken charge and asked how he felt about it. at first he was like “how so?”

    i said well i intiated contact. i asked for your number and i called.

    he said, “whoa. i guess you are in charge”


    and then i said yes how do you feel about that?

    and he said he was ok with it. and then he asked if that included me telling him what pants to wear.

    and i said, maybe,

    he said oh no then.


    i said why not?

    but we talked about other things. his job, his fav tv show, my looking for new work etc.

    both my phone calls were very fun. and the guys seem nice.

  234.  #234Mary on December 20, 2009 at 12:35 am

    if my head will watch out for me, it’s okay to be with him for a while. if it isn’t gonna work, maybe my head will decide this time.

    how to prevent the subtle abuse from creeping in and destroying me, like it did before?

    i was in a very deep pit. just got out of it when he came back into my life.

    am i back in it?

    i feel this crippling fear. i don’t even want to think about it. WHAT AM I DOING WITH HIM?

  235.  #235Mary on December 20, 2009 at 12:38 am

    last night he asked me out for christmas eve. that made me feel all okay about everything.

    maybe he’s just a player. he’s probably sitting in his room watching tv, letting me worry.

  236.  #236janjune on December 20, 2009 at 12:38 am

    alias girl,
    yes it feels very, very good to be in the soup about this.
    a necessary step coming at just the right time.
    thank you.

    “janjune i also feel put off.
    i don’t feel like trying to help anymore. let people work it out for themselves. but i am done giving my offers of help even when people ask.
    so janjune. i wish you the best”

    i’m cherry picking your comments but:
    the sum of these sentences sounds like GO AWAY to me.
    but i still respect your choice to make that decision or not and i will do the same.

  237.  #237Mary on December 20, 2009 at 12:38 am

    AG: you’re gonna be married in a few months.

  238.  #238Tina on December 20, 2009 at 12:40 am

    Wow, Alias girl, so he is now taking charge, great.

    Mary, I dont feel ignored, I ramble on and on and on.

  239.  #239janjune on December 20, 2009 at 12:41 am


    “how to prevent the subtle abuse from creeping in and destroying me, like it did before?
    i was in a very deep pit. just got out of it when he came back into my life.
    am i back in it?
    i feel this crippling fear. i don’t even want to think about it. WHAT AM I DOING WITH HIM?”

    it sounds like you’re getting to the core here.

  240.  #240Mary on December 20, 2009 at 12:43 am

    well, maybe it’s all okay.

    i mean, i need time anyway. time to take the test. go to thailand! yes, in january! time to look around. get organized. go through boxes. do paperwork. get started in a career.

    circular date.

    see if J comes around.

    feelin’ better.

  241.  #241janjune on December 20, 2009 at 12:43 am

    can you just lean back into those icky ugly feeling feelings and let them swash over you. Experience them for what they are— red flags of protection to keep you from getting hurt.

  242.  #242Tina on December 20, 2009 at 12:50 am

    I said I feel special now he is complaining that I want my cake and eat it to awe did it get to rough for you poor baby now fuck off!

  243.  #243gina on December 20, 2009 at 12:50 am

    alias girl, I know I would feel comfortable and triumphant maybe, but I don’t imagine I’d feel romanced (and that’s how I want to feel)…any romance?

  244.  #244Mary on December 20, 2009 at 12:50 am

    well, i went to a secluded cabin by myself to study. then came back to do some business.

    he went to partysville to ski.

    i feel jealous! i want to ski, too. i want to be out on the town tonight, too! i want to be with him, too.

    i’m tempted to find a motive. but i won’t. i’ll stick to the way i feel.

    not included


    heartbroken (okay, that’s a little strong)

    OH. I know what i’m worried about!

    keeping him. now that B’s gone. now that i’ve come back early from my trip and i’m in town again. now that it’s just him… and me…

  245.  #245Mary on December 20, 2009 at 12:51 am

    feel like i’ll lose him if i circular date.
    feel like i’ll lose him if i don’t.

    maybe he’s not the right guy for me.

  246.  #246Tina on December 20, 2009 at 12:55 am

    I know I’m special:) The Universe says so , the angels stop singing when I cry 🙁

    I feel like a big spoiled baby waaaaaaaaaaaa

  247.  #247janjune on December 20, 2009 at 12:55 am

    glad you’re feeling better mary.

    i feel encouragement toward you to explore your feelings the way rori teaches when you’re ready. it has always felt safe, to me, to do that on here and don’t know that i would have tried it, even if i’d known how, without this blog. it somehow seems to keep things headed toward the goal the right way.


  248.  #248Mary on December 20, 2009 at 12:56 am

    thanks janjune. nice talking with you…

    alias girl! you crack me up!

  249.  #249Mary on December 20, 2009 at 12:56 am


  250.  #250Tina on December 20, 2009 at 1:00 am

    I love my big spoiled baby, I want to wrap her fat little body up in a nice warm blanket and give her a kissy fart on the her big fat neck awe , she’s so cute, I was fat when I was a baby I weighed 14 lbs, my mom used to prop me up and then I would fall over cause I was to fat to stay up haha. I almost died to 🙁 I had an abcess in my neck, my grandfather rushed me to the hospital and said he wasnt leaving until they saved me. I was three months old. I used to look like a peanut 🙂 my nickname was peanut, Tina peanut 🙂

  251.  #251gina on December 20, 2009 at 1:12 am

    I feel like showing a man my home is huge. What do you ladies think?

    Janjune…about how to hang with females when you are attracting the heck out of a man…what gathered about the dynamic, is that your point of view felt self conscious to me. Like practice mode – and the men weren’t aware of it, but the women could sense that you were deliberately doing something and that you had a little secret. They were weary of you cause you were weary of them …they could sense that underneath, you were insecure, and it brought out the insecurities in them. Probably feeling compassion and love for them will help bring out the compassion and love they posses.

  252.  #252gina on December 20, 2009 at 1:15 am

    feeling weird about using the word “insecure” – I’m referring to what looks like an inevitability: while trying a totally new way of being, we are likely afraid.

    I feel like my particular point of view is interfering with the basic truth that Alias directed us towards, but I feel pressure to avoid oversimplification and confusion.

  253.  #253Tina on December 20, 2009 at 1:26 am

    Janjune a testimonial is when a someone is on your favs list and you on theres and they leave a comment on your profile page.

  254.  #254alias girl on December 20, 2009 at 1:28 am

    janjune i feel good it was helpful for both of us. i was triggered too. and it’s been the same issue for me in other areas of my life. my idea of “helping” people is having them do things my way. it feels rude and offbase. and i feel good that i feel triggered every time i try to “help” people now because it is a huge road sign for me to STOP it.

    i feel caring feelings. i want people to be happy. but i need to let people find their own way.

    thank you for this. and for being here. i appreciate your presence here.

    gina i feel great. these guys feel good to me. i feel excited about my experiment. and those are both good feelings. 🙂

    you and i are different. we are in two different places of dating. i feel good to be supported because i am on my happy ever after road. i do not recommend this path for you gina and it does not sound like it would feel good for you.

    but i have gotten an aeiral view of man/women and a reverse image and all i can say is wow. plus i want a man who can tolerate my boy because my boy doesn’t seem to be going anywhere.

    anywya it’s just dating. i am just dating. what is the message?

    everything is going to be ok.

    it was super fun. but i have a sort of different idea of fun than some people.

    i can sway and flow now. move and sway and flow and be. there are no wrong answers for me.

    i feel excited like i just went on a good date! and that’s a good vibration to have. i feel like i am already in love. but with who?

    with the unknown! with what is! with what will happen next on my big adventure?!

  255.  #255dorothea on December 20, 2009 at 1:33 am

    i’ve actually been avoiding reading this post through. Like, I skimmed it sorta. But I don’t want to read it. I’m scared of it. Does anyone ever avoid Rori’s posts here? LOL I feel amused. I’m going to read it now okay

  256.  #256dorothea on December 20, 2009 at 1:36 am

    yay i feel proud to say i read the dang post. Good stuff. Thanks!

  257.  #257Tina on December 20, 2009 at 1:42 am

    Why are you avoiding the post Dorothea

  258.  #258janjune on December 20, 2009 at 1:53 am

    well alias girl,
    i feel value in what you have to say and feel trusting of your authenticity and sincerity in your attention to each of the goddesses. of everybody on here, you’re the one who always tries to help and it is appreciated.
    So i hope you don’t stop. but if it’s an issue as you said, i hope you can make it where it feels balanced so it feels good to you and not a burden.
    this is the first triggering i’ve been through that i caught ahold of and loved it and flowed with it. What an experience. Now i know why you guys are always getting excited about getting triggered!

  259.  #259janjune on December 20, 2009 at 2:00 am

    thanks for your input on that.
    now that i look back after reading what you said, no i wasn’t sending ANY kind of ANYthing to the women in the group, i was so stunned, bowled over really, by the response of the men that i was just kind of in “happy shock” you might say, kind of being swept along by the cloud of testosterone hanging in the air brought about by… well now i know it was rori’s tools but at the time, like i said, i just didn’t realize the power of the tools… it was all so new to me.
    but i think i can work on it to maybe laser focus OpenHeart rather than just flinging it open like i know i was doing– OpenHeart— oh, okay,— here it is — and there it was! and wow things juist took on a life of their own from there.

  260.  #260janjune on December 20, 2009 at 2:01 am

    i didn’t see testimonials on the dating site i was on. maybe they didn’t have it.

  261.  #261janjune on December 20, 2009 at 2:01 am

    okay, really going to sleep now!

    goodnight goddesses!

  262.  #262laughing goddess on December 20, 2009 at 2:04 am

    AG: I love that he said he wanted to take charge. I feel so frustrated waiting around for guys to do something. Maybe the key is to be able to easily switch between boy and girl energy depending on the situation and the results we seek. I’m going to experiment with being more proactive. I am NOT going to be proactive by laser focusing on one man…I’m going to spread the love around and keep focused on my adventures. There is a steady stream of fun and adventure flowing for us. I feel like I have a universal lover who presents himself physically in many different forms. He’s not just one man.

  263.  #263gina on December 20, 2009 at 2:05 am

    With G, I feel that parts of my identity that don’t match his vision of a life together are ignored. Sometimes I like that, and sometimes I don’t. I feel cherished by him as his territory, and he behaves as though the rest doesn’t concern him. Therefore, he wishes the best for “the rest,” but doesn’t want it to interfere with his vision. He’s happy to accommodate me as it directly relates to him, but he isn’t apparently interested in what else I got goin on. I’m curious about this – I feel a little scared that it means that i would have to give up those parts in order to be with him. I realize that’s irrational, but I feel worried that that’s what he intends to do…but that seems irrational and paranoid too…I feel anxiety about things moving to fast for me to feel them…but I also don’t have to be thinking about how I’m feeling at all…I could just go to bed, cause that is something I need/want to do…and the night owl part of my identity is one of those pieces that he is denying, and I feel curious about whether I’d like it to be gone…

  264.  #264laughing goddess on December 20, 2009 at 2:08 am

    I feel excited to rendevous with my universal lover in his many different forms. I feel lots of possibilities opening up.

  265.  #265Tina on December 20, 2009 at 2:26 am

    Baby wants her cake and eat it too waaaaaaaaah. I love her fat cheeks, even when she is crying she is so cute, awe, whats the matter my fat little baby. I shoved a bean up my nose when I was learning to crawl awe. I’m special weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

  266.  #266Mary on December 20, 2009 at 2:48 am


    i feel a bit scared for you. i’m worried that there might be an instant relationship going on. a little like it’s all too soon and too good and too perfect and too everything. is that my cynicism? is there any way you can NOT be exclusive yet? maybe tell him you made a mistake? maybe not have sex a lot? up your level of difficulty? it seems like this relationship is going down the normal path, counter to any of rori’s ideas. i don’t know. what do you think?

  267.  #267Tina on December 20, 2009 at 2:55 am

    I feel open hearty 🙂 I feel funny open hearty, eeeee
    I cant wait to talk to “wellman” again. I wanna kiss him, Im gonna tell him, I wanna kiss him, I FEEL like telling him I wanna know what it feeels like to jump in the sack with him weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. more like uh lol open leggy, hehehehe weeeeeeeeee fuck it. yeah…

    Maybe its just his pic , he is standing with his arms crossed and legs kinda spread with jeans on hm…

    ok never mind. size matters, why do I say it doesnt lol. yeah it fcken does, lol. nooooooooooooo you cant have a cock down to your knees weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ahahaha. your crazy Tina lol. go to bed!

  268.  #268Tina on December 20, 2009 at 3:00 am

    hahaha I said just my lower chakras hehehe weeee

  269.  #269alias girl on December 20, 2009 at 3:11 am

    heheheh. tina you crack me up.

  270.  #270Lola on December 20, 2009 at 7:43 am

    I feel really invisible here : ((

  271.  #271Jennifer on December 20, 2009 at 8:11 am

    Lots of stuff going on on Siren Island.
    The “open Heart” exercise sounds thrilling. This sort of things have not been happening to me so far so I’m interested in having that response. Is that the one where you imagine a zipper over your heart and you unzip it?
    I managed to get the joint account with B closed. He has been onleave since the 12th and has had the money to cover HIS half of the overdraft but I had to call him on Wed to get it done. I resent the hell out of that.
    It feels like dealing with a stubborn teenager. Like how if something happens they don’t want to deal with then they don’t deal with it.
    I want to date adults. I seem to remember that there are adult males out there. My brother is one. My friend Jon seems to be one. I want one too!
    Where are the grownups? The ones who take care of their business and speak plainly and don’t whine at me?
    He sent me an email that annoyed me and I replied.
    Is that leaning forward?
    Yeah…but was I gonna let him get away with saying stupid shit to me? No.
    Here it is girls…
    Let me know what you think, even if it might trigger me. I love that.

    here is something that I have have been thinking about. You said “It seems to me that you want to rebuild our life on your terms only. There is no room for negotiation.”

    This makes me feel annoyed.

    Firstly I cannot decide weather you

    A) actually think that (which I doubt)
    B) This is another passive aggressive mind game ( P/A will resent people who set boundaries and require that they are met. They do this by intentionally misunderstanding and/ or overly criticizing the people setting the boundaries. They also procrastinate and seem to agree to meet the requirements and then do not do what they say they will)

    To be very clear…I have never said that we will rebuild OUR life on MY terms. However; MY life will be on MY terms..I have spent a lot of time telling you how I FELT, how I WANT to feel and how I DO NOT want to feel.
    To review.

    I want to feel my partner respects me.
    I want to  feel my partner loves me 
    I want to feel my partner has me at the center of their sexual attention.
    I want to feel my partner supports me emotionally, physically and financially if needs be.
    I want to feel I am prioritized.
    I want to feel beautiful
    I want to feel special.
    I want to feel looked after
    I want to feel my partner makes the effort to work on our relationship.
    I want to feel emotional intimacy
    I want to feel synchronicity.
    I want to feel I have full disclosure from my partner.
    I want to feel I can trust my parter’s words and actions.

    To further clarify

    Words are cheap. Actions are what I’m looking for.
    So you get to decide if you can be the guy who ACTS in a way that makes me FEEL the above. Or not. Your call.
    If there are negotiations to do we can talk about that. My issue is that when I hear “negotiate” from you I think “compromise”. I will not give up any of the things on my feeling list.
    Again.. your call.
    I am happy for you to take all the time you need to decide what to do with me but you cannot have me all to yourself while you are deciding.

  272.  #272laughing goddess on December 20, 2009 at 9:35 am

    Jennifer: your letter sounds great to me. It feels clear and direct.

    Lola: I feel sad that you feel invisible. I feel that way too sometimes. I also feel bad that I don’t have the time or energy to address everyone here. I’ve heard that when we feel something is missing in our world, the best thing to do is give what we want to others, then what we are looking for comes back to us.

  273.  #273mary on December 20, 2009 at 9:39 am

    Hi Lola!

    I sold my house two years ago and got a UPS box, because I wasn’t sure where I wanted to live, and I wanted to wait for the market to go down a little more before buying anything. What a great idea for me, because I’ve moved twice since then! I LOVE having the UPS box, because packages can go there, etc., and I don’t have to pick them up the same day, or travel anywhere else to get them.

    I had to pay for a year’s lease on the box, so I probably wouldn’t consider changing it until the year was up.

    Could that scenario be similar to your BF’s? Sorry about yesterday.

    I don’t feel overly concerned when I read this, but there might be more to it that I’m not getting. Could you ask him to make arrangements with a family member to call you if something happened to him?

  274.  #274mary on December 20, 2009 at 9:46 am


    Is this a letter that you’re thinking of sending to your guy? Or are you just talking to us about him?

  275.  #275mary on December 20, 2009 at 9:55 am

    I’m kinda wondering something:

    If we tell our guys a bunch of feeling messages and then say, “what do you think?” they’re in their heads, talking to us. what if we said, “how do you feel about that?” would they say anything different?

  276.  #276mary on December 20, 2009 at 9:56 am

    i’ve noticed that i’ve changed the way i am with R since he’s come back.

    before, i used to think about his feelings.

    now I notice my feelings about his actions.

    i get a lot more information this way. thank you, rori.

  277.  #277Lisa on December 20, 2009 at 11:23 am


    Two things:

    I don’t think we can do much about jealous people. Like the prophets have said, just be a light unto yourself; be an an example, and have fun.

    I have found when in a social situation that certain women just naturally come on strong (bullying). It is unattractive, and I just walk away, and avoid being with those women in social situations. Certainly men see it for what it is, and if they like that, more power to them! I am more of an open-heart type, so the men who like that gravitate toward me.

    You said,

    “so i guess that’s part of the program, too. SEEING.
    Really SEEING for once, what’s going on.
    Yes, that feels consistent with rori’s program of seeing what you don’t want so you can respond in a way that’s respectful to yourself (and others)…”

    Seeing what is is so powerful. We all filter things through our preconceptions, and it hard to ditch everything for fear of becoming a Pollyanna. But, “It is what it is.” I have often thought, “When you BELIEVE it, you will see it.” By that I do not mean imposing an artificial perception, but actually allowing yourself to apprehend the reality (ugly or unpleasant though it my be) allows you to rip off the veil, as it were.

    Believe (have faith) in your powers of perception, and really see what’s around. For me, that means even ditching the tendency to evaluate and analyze. Seeing in that simple way is liberation, IMHO.

  278.  #278mary on December 20, 2009 at 12:01 pm

    i made a little MAN blog!

    * it has a black background
    * the title for each entry is a guy’s name
    * the content is all about what happened today
    * i use feeling words and COLOR CODE them!
    i’m working on expanding my feeling word vocabulary.
    so a word like “upset” i code in red because red is anger.
    * i made a label with the guy’s name, so I can look at just him whenever i want

    oooooooh… i love this!

    i wish i had done this years ago and i could go through and look at my red words! WOW.

    here’s my code:

    anger = red
    fear = purple
    sadness = blue
    shame = green
    happiness = yellow

    if i do start circular dating, (and it sounds like a good plan – i need to get some guys interested before i make any speeches,) it’ll be a good way to track what i know about the guy. what we did, how i felt about it, number of brothers and sisters, other pertinent information!

    OH, AND… VERY IMPORTANT! the blog is only viewable by me!

    i love it!!!!!

  279.  #279laughing goddess on December 20, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    That sounds like a cool idea Mary!

  280.  #280Nikita on December 20, 2009 at 12:44 pm


    I love it, and your organized approach…..

    sigh….so much going on in me…dunno where to start

  281.  #281mary on December 20, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    oh, it’s gonna be so great!

    i’m making myself include all the happy feelings. usually those don’t get included when i talk with girlfriends. they’re sortof taken for granted.

    now i’ll be able to sort on the name of the guy, and look at a whole month or a year or however long the relationship lasts and the colors of the feelings will jump out at me!l

    another thing about including the happy feelings – maybe i’ll start talking more about them with my friends. then they’ll have good thoughts about the guy i love! why do i feed them with ammunition (my fears and anger) that they can use to ditch him? i must be more careful about that.

  282.  #282Simply Shannon on December 20, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    AG: I’m saving this comment for future reading: “my idea of “helping” people is having them do things my way. it feels rude and offbase. and i feel good that i feel triggered every time i try to “help” people now because it is a huge road sign for me to STOP it.” Ummm… guilty as charged here. Wow. I loved reading this. Extremely helpful. My trying to help is trying to get someone to do something MY way. Wow. As difficult as that might be for me to admit, it felt so good to read that! I love your experiment too. It would feel empowering to deliberately use boy energy (whereas before we were doing that and not realizing it). And it sounds like some of the men are taking charge anyway. Maybe there’s a nice balance here. To me the balance is where I’ll find my rockstar. I think that’s what Rori means when she says rockstar. I feel fascinated and appreciative of your experiment and willingness to share here!

    Janjune: Maybe other women feel ignored but that’s not really my business. However, if I noticed the other woman (especially if they are my friends) trying to get a man’s attention and he ignored her, I would feel a little bothered by that, in particular if I felt it was in a rude way. That wouldn’t feel good to me. Or maybe I would feel powerful and almost condescending (?) if a man was only focusing on me. Maybe that’s the vibe the other women picked up on? I’ve been in this situation before (pre-Rori) and I guess now it feels important to me to be open to my girlfriends and not focus so much on boys who come around. Yes I want to be open to men but the man in front of me doesn’t have to be the only focus for me. Especially in a social setting, it might feel like opening my circle to include all the people in front of me instead of being in a bubble with the one boy in front of me. I don’t know. I guess I’m wondering how you felt when the other woman was ignored. How did it make YOU feel? And what did you say/do?

    LG: Wow girl! Rock on!!

    Gina: I feel very weird reading your posts about G. I feel cynical. I’m getting Mr. Manly Man memories really strong when I’m reading it, to the point that I know exactly what you’re saying because I’ve experienced it and felt the same way. When I was with Mr. MM, I felt concerned about giving up parts of myself to make HIM happy. I still feel that way when I think of him but I no longer feel anxiety about it because he’s just a man in my river. I could have been his girlfriend and given him what he wanted. And maybe I would have a great relationship but I know that fear would be there. The waiting for that “one thing” that I would do to piss him off and make him cut ties. He felt that controlling to me. Does G feel that way to you? In other words, do you feel scared that being you and doing the things YOU enjoy will make him cut and run? When I told Mr. MM I didn’t feel comfortable being anyone’s girlfriend, he stopped calling as much. He still contacts me randomly and just yesterday asked me out again. Thing is… I knew he would. Right now I don’t really want him but I feel curious if maybe he’s changing. Maybe he’ll bend (or maybe he won’t). I don’t know. The control issue was/is too much for me and if I had accepted his offer to be his girlfriend, he would in effect be getting his way AGAIN. I don’t want to ever feel scared when I’m with a man. Not scared to say or do whatever it is I want. Sure he might get mad but I don’t want to get scared he’ll leave. And I know the old Mr. Manly Man would. We’ll see if he’s changing. Not putting any money on it but hey… I know I’ll have fun on our date. 🙂

    BREAKING NEWS – I got saved today! I finally and publicly gave my life to Christ today in church. I feel so light and open and RELIEVED. I feel freakin’ amazing. I have no idea what this means for me or for all these men I’ve been seeing. I feel a little overwhelmed even trying to figure that part out. For now, I’m simply reveling in this freedom. Literally during church it felt like this HUGE weight came off of me. Amazing stuff happening here. And I don’t feel scared anymore. I feel tears-in-my-eyes amazed.


    I am Simply Shannon. Today December 20, 2009 is my new “birthday”. Thank you Jesus for everything!!

  283.  #283Lisa on December 20, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    Simply Shannon,

    I am very happy for you. I feel your lightness.

    Heathen that I am, I believe being born again is realxing your essential freedom. You always were loved, and accepted, unconditionally. Even if you’re the only one who practices that love. Being in a church gives you a lot of witnesses to that fact.

    But it is my posture that you were always loved. We are born anew every day. Truth. Even if you just take a biological approach: You are not the same cells, the same body that you were yesterday. You (on a cellular level) are always feasting on yourself, lysing yourself. Born anew.

    Not to get too deep, but I believe that is the meaning of taking the host in the Eucharist. You become powerful by ingesting parts of another, which is merely making you cognizant of the reality of your daily life. You ingest food, you take in new ideas, toss out the bad, excrete, respirate, exfoliate … the whole thing — You make yourself, adding and subtracting, every day.

    That is why if we are living wisely, we will strive to make every moment, no matter inconsequential, good.

    Just my 2 cents.

  284.  #284Lisa on December 20, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    Oh, and a deep “thanks” of heartfelt gratitude for all of the Sirens here. The past two weeks have broken my mind open a bit, and this community has been very fortifying. The openness and willingness to share and nurture has been a godsend.

    So thanks to all.

  285.  #285Jennifer on December 20, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    This is an email that i wrote and sent.
    I feel good about it.

  286.  #286Daria on December 20, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    i feel good! i feel excited and relaxed, and smily. i feel a lil stif. i feel excited about stretching! i feel amused. i feel glad thinking how good i looked yesterday

    even though i had an i dont want to go in feeling when we got to the club, so i made no boy move toward it. i felt really sleepy and afraid to feel overwhlemed. i felt hi . then when i got home and looked in the mirror i was like whoa! i looked GOOD!

    i mean really really good haha

    oh i managed to make eye contact with some guys and they flirted and talked to me a lot

    even tho i was hi so even tho it felt scary i was cool

    i felt very uncomfortable in ross with all the old ladies. i fel like a certain part of them was saying omg look at that amazingly dressed girl, but if they would be able to smell pot on me they would look disgusted and say ‘drogata’

    i felt Not Good! I felt very icky being judged by this by the old ladies in my head.

    i felt very glad to take a look at this finally!

  287.  #287janjune on December 20, 2009 at 1:35 pm

    i have to get off of this blog today! spent too much time on it yesterday but it’s so good to be back on Siren Island, i just had to indulge myself and get a little bit caught up.

    working backwards through comments——-

    I agree with laughing goddess
    your blog idea sounds so cool!
    sounds like you’re planning on having lots of men in your rotation!!! yes!!

    thanks for your comments. i appreciate “points” of view that differ from mine as that is such an incredible way to grow. so many different “points of viewing life” are expressed on this blog and it has been an awesome experience to ‘get into the heads” of the other sirens. each one has her unique experiences that she’s openly sharing and then we have those experiences in common too.
    It’s so expansive.
    i always feel grateful after i’ve been on this blog.
    as for the women i was with, i think now after bringing it up on here that they felt like i wasn’t “with” them. yes. like i was “with” myself and not the group. like i was ostracizing them first by getting all the man attention instead of being part of the group which was receiving attention from the men. yes. that’s what happened!
    so i will have to experiment with this OpenHeart exercise and not just fling my heart open from now on.
    Like I said after the experiences i had with it, the way the men responded felt almost primordial, so i just quit doing OpenHeart after that…I don’t want to lose my women friends! I like having women friends!
    your two paragraphs about “really seeing what is going on” sound very deep and perceptive to me. deeper than i have gone with this. i am a smoother- over-er and don’t look at things the way they ARE. It has been a survival technique.
    I want to keep that. but also grow and expand.
    so thank you for your perspective. i will reread it throughout the day today and in days to come until i make it part of myself as my (scary) goal is to rip off the veil as you said.
    AND “For me, that means even ditching the tendency to evaluate and analyze.”
    whoa! i love that and would like to be living life in that place. if you think of other things that are meaningful to you that you care to share, i would love to hear them.

    your question about asking men “how do you feel?” sounds interesting. maybe you could do “an experiment” and give us a Goddesses Report!?

    yes, that’s OpenHeart, but i didn’t even use the zipper, i just opened my heart.
    ohhh, look out! be sure you’re ready when you do that. like i said the testosterone wave was incredible. i felt like i was being propelled along on a cloud of it. very fun if it hadn’t created problems with the women i was with.
    your letter to B sounds like you’re trying to talk to an adult. when he’s just being belligerent and withholding for some reason, like a little kid.
    i feel good about you sending it too if it makes YOU feel better. that’s not in keeping with rori’s program– but sometimes we have to get through “our stuff” before we can start trusting the program and doing things a new way. sending good thoughts to you about make YOUR choice for YOUR good.

    lola- pls see next comment

  288.  #288mary on December 20, 2009 at 1:50 pm

    have you read any of david deida’s books for women? every other word is OPEN. i had to quit reading them because it made me feel like i was being patronized. guess it works tho!

  289.  #289Nikita on December 20, 2009 at 1:52 pm

    Simply Shannon,

    I feel connected to your expeience. I an considering entering a very christian program where I study a lot and focus on grace….which will eliminate any circular dating for a few months of my life….but….I’m more interested in my feelings than any one I’ve been seeing….sigh….it’s practically a convent..

  290.  #290Nikita on December 20, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    I bought that book….and I haven’t been “open” to finishing it 😉

    and I like it….my head may be resisting

  291.  #291janjune on December 20, 2009 at 1:57 pm

    i felt a dull ache around the heart when i read that you feel invisible on this blog.
    i think sometimes we don’t know what to say to someone. i know i am so new to rori’s program that i just wait for some ELSE to answer people’s questions, like i don’t know enough or will give the wrong answer and like maybe that person doesn’t care what i think about it anyway!…i feel that there are other goddesses on here far more qualiied to answer people’s questions than I am…and also like maybe the person asking the question doesn’t care what *I* think…maybe i’m not someone they want to hear from…

    so, maybe try addressing a certain person or certain people whose comments you resonate with AND open it up to the group of goddesses as well?

    i hope this helps.

    also, mary’s suggestion about suggesting to your guy that he get a UPS box sounds great. After all, if he moves in with you he is going to be making yet ANOTHER move so he may be postponing changing his address for that reason. If he gets the UPS box, he has an address of his own no matter how may times his living situation changes.

    love, janjune

  292.  #292mary on December 20, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    Simply Shannon!

    That is AMAZING, cutting edge news!!!! I’m so happy for you. Let us know how your perspective changes! You sound peaceful.

    Love, Mary

  293.  #293mary on December 20, 2009 at 2:13 pm


    the book was great. i did like it, except for the over-use of the word. his books for men are SO GOOD.

    i like the idea of focusing on grace. seems very safe and OPEN to me!

    not sure why focusing on grace would mean that you couldn’t circular date. maybe no circular sex… but dating, maybe okay?

  294.  #294mary on December 20, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    Jan June: everything you said sounded really valid to me!

  295.  #295janjune on December 20, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    simply shannon,
    thanks for your comments.
    yes, i think him ignoring her and her pushing it to the point she did made everybody feel embarrassed except the two of them.
    they were in a battle.
    she was going to take over (outman him) and he was just as resolute that she WASN’t going to take over and he was going to stand there all day and ignore her until she “got it”. i felt he knew he was the “alpha” person in the group and wasn’t going to let someone take his position away from him! Got to love a man for knowing who he is and embracing it.
    i felt embarrassed for her that she was trying to outman him.
    i felt embarrassed for him that he was being challenged.

    None of the other women (who know BOTH of them much better than i do) stepped in to say anything so i just let the group lead, i followed, and we all just stood there until he was back in control again.
    that’s really what happened!
    LISA–practicing removing the veil…feels good!

    i think the best thing i can do is just know what’s going to happen and try to work on other ways of practicing OpenHeart rather than just flinging my heart open… like i said, i like having female friends and don’t want this to be an issue.

  296.  #296mary on December 20, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    and i know rori doesn’t advocate circular sex… except on fantasy island.

  297.  #297alias girl on December 20, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    congratulations simply shannon. i feel your happiness.

    lisa i love what you wrote in response.

    lola, yes sometimes people’s comments get overlooked. it’s happened to all of us. i used to feel hurt and triggered but far less than i used to. but still, sometimes i do.

  298.  #298janjune on December 20, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    i also feel very happy for you for giving your heart to Jesus! have you been thinking about doing it for a long time and just decided today was the day?
    did the church give you some suggestions for what to read in the bible?
    I know when I got saved it was at my (then) fiancee’s house and he told me to read the Gospel of John first. that was before i even went to church!
    i feel so interested also like mary in how this will affect how you interpret rori’;s program.
    that’s so beautiful to me about rori’s program that it’s so “adjustable” —fitting any point of view spiritually and otherwise.
    love, janjune

  299.  #299janjune on December 20, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    bye! got to get to work! 🙂

  300.  #300Lola on December 20, 2009 at 2:46 pm

    LG, Mary, Janjune, AG

    Thank you! I feel less invisible now!

    I realise there is so much traffic on this blog things get overlooked. I’ve been trying to respond a little to people, but I’m new to this and like janjune says feel there are people on here with a greater understanding of the tools than myself.

    Also I’m in the UK and I think I’m out of sync with most of you as we are minimum 4 hours ahead of US (I think).

    I will, as suggested, ask him to give his parents my number for emergencies – I think if he had an accident or anything his ex is who he would be traced to via is drivers license and credit cards (that makes me feel really upset!! I also hate thinking in terms of anything bad happening to him – feels so negative and morbid).

    I think here you have to have banking, drivers license registered to an actual address as opposed to what we call a PO box (I think that’s what Mary and janjune were suggesting)

    I will have to make him aware how this makes me feel.

    Thank you all for your suggestions and helping me feel better!! : )


  301.  #301mary on December 20, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    this is the 300th comment!

    i’m feeling quite happy now. i was mad at R for being at whistler when i have to study.

    now i’m not, because he only went because i left town. i didn’t even tell him that i was making those arrangements; i just sprang it on him! it was my way of coping because B was coming back into town and i didn’t want to have to deal with it.

    i’m not presuming to know his feelings, but if i had been R, i would have been mad at me! and maybe i would have gone to whistler and not called after 7pm.

    or maybe not.

    yes, i am mad about it again.

    but i’ll be happy to see him. i guess this is the price to pay for being so difficult? as in “high level of difficulty?” tit for tat?

    maybe i’ll open my heart to him. just unzip it slowly, and smile as i go…

  302.  #302Nikita on December 20, 2009 at 2:50 pm


    no dating-it’s a church. Lots of studying and organized days…curfews….convent-like….no dating…’s all about focusing on self and faith…focus.

  303.  #303mary on December 20, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    oh, kindof a retreat? where you live there? for how long?

  304.  #304mary on December 20, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    you know what? who knows? it might be the best thing you ever did for yourself. there’s always time for guys. and maybe the focus will help you to know more of what you want. that’s half of it, eh?

  305.  #305Tina on December 20, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    Ok this guy (a different one) wants me to send him my msn, I already have refused to give it to ALL men on my dating site. He wants to “chat” lol, should I do it? should I not? He is cute though…

    I just feel like not wanting to block and delete him. He says we can be “friends” if nothing more. I dont need friends, well I do want friends just um dont know if I want to be his. so do I bend the rules cause he is cute 🙂

  306.  #306Tina on December 20, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    Ok, I’ll do it, I just have mostly my family on my msn account or people that know me well.

  307.  #307Nikita on December 20, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    Yes a faith based retreat of sorts but very disciplined…( I’m interested in divinity studies…and things of that nature….so I’d live there…in the house and be a part of the community…so no drinking either…I mean it when I say convent :0) it’s all women… for a few months, very restricted but later more freedom but no overnights 😉

  308.  #308Nikita on December 20, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    Sometimes I think about being a nun for halloween……I see that as a message 😉

    But I know I want to get married so it doesn’t feel good but I do feel curious….

  309.  #309mary on December 20, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    Nikita. you will have a graceful, fragrant essence, inside and out, beautiful woman. “as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he.”

  310.  #310Nikita on December 20, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    aaaw Mary,
    that’s so sweet…thx

  311.  #311gina on December 20, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    SS, thanks for the feedback…I don’t feel scared – I feel defensive. Like taking a “I could take or leave it!” stand. Like “hey, I am sexually attracted to you and I basically like you a lot. You feel like a real MAN to me. Yes, i feel overwhelmed, but, you were right…it’s better than feeling UNDERwhelmed…but the thing is…I meant it when I said that I have my own vision, and I am happy to help you realize your vision if you are as happy to realize mine. Right now, we don’t know if we want to give our whole selves to each other, because we aren’t entirely clear on whether each others’ vision suits us all that well. I’m not sure yet, and it doesn’t feel good to feel pressure when I am not sure…”

  312.  #312gina on December 20, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    But then I can see how I could be saying…”oh, you are so sexy and manly and powerful. I love you. I want to take care of your babies in a beautiful house in the country. I would love to be surrounded by beautiful animals that I would love (but i would prefer if you paid people to take responsibility for the bulk of their care.) I will take care of your children and love them. And serve you coffee and salads, soups and sandwiches (which we would enjoy between meals at restaurants). I will cook more when/if we have kids – actually it’s important to me that we share dinners together as a family: a non-negotiable for me, actually…hmmm…what else?

  313.  #313Daria on December 20, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    Flinging my heart open sounds beautiful

    i want to fling my heart open!

  314.  #314Daria on December 20, 2009 at 4:32 pm

    I feel pressed donw on my breathing!

  315.  #315Daria on December 20, 2009 at 4:33 pm

    I don’t want to feel scared of being attacked and incapable of protecting myself.

    I don’t want to feel rejected by imaginary older snobs.

    I love myself.

  316.  #316Robin on December 20, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    Im reading this and telling myself to NOT lean forward, and the truth is Im feeling really sad and disappointed right now…Im really feeling like Im in a pit of darkness right now.

    I know this to be true-if a man doesnt call you, its because he doesnt want to…so simple..

    The guy in my rotation that was/is my favorite hasnt been around so much…it feels like hes backpedaling, backing away, and I can feel a definite shift in the energies

    We went out about 2 weeks ago, we had another date scheduled for 2 days later, but he cancelled and asked if we could reschedule, I said we could, but we never rescheduled, I was him at church the next day, but still no attempt to see me last week. I didnt hear from him at all til friday with this text ‘hello beautiful, its been one hell of a week for me. How about you?’ I replied back ‘It feels good to hear from you…im sorry about your week, tell me more…my week hasnt felt the will feel so good when this week is over :)”


    And I see him today @ church, we barely get to talk, b/c Ive got people left and right coming up to me, and it feels good to talk to them and help them or listen to them, and he waited to talk to me, he told my friends & I hes leaving Wed to go out of town for Christmas, but when there was some free time for us to talk, he gave me a hug and told me ‘I’ll see you soon”

    Nothing else, so Im trying to come to grips with the fact that, thats it, he didnt ask to see me before Christmas, because he doesnt want to..

    I wasnt sure whether to get him something for Christmas…Rori, whats your opinion on gift-giving at Christmas with the men we’re dating?

    I decided to get something to have on-hand, but how the heck do you pull that one off? I thought I would give him the gift if he said to me ‘hey I have something for you”…If I just show up with something, and he didnt get me anything, that would feel awful, but it would also feel weird to get something for him, and not have anything…so I feel really confused…

    And my mom asked about it, and she says to be the bigger person and text him and say “I hope I get to see you before you leave, I have something for you..” She asked me why cant you just text him?? She says just as a friend.

    But that feels like the problem to me, if I do that, I will be putting myself in the ‘friends’ category and Im not looking to be friends with men right now, because I want to be married…

    I told her, Im just observing all of these things that are happening, and that I need attention, and that I dont want to feel ignored or neglected..She says he may feel the same way, and may think that Im ignoring and neglecting him, and that he may not think I feel anything for him, that Im using him, and to give him a Christmas present, b/c he bought a couple of gifts for me earlier, about 6 weeks ago, and 2 months ago that deserve for me to just text him and give him the present, without expecting anything for him in return…

    I FEEL SO CONFUSED!!!!!!!!!!!! Sirens, what do you think????

    I was out and about and kept getting delayed, people kept getting in front of me in line, and Im not the most patient person in the world, so I took this as a message from the universe that maybe I NEED to SLOW DOWN and let other people go before me, put other people first…

    So that might be what I need to do with this guy, and give him the present, but I dont know, and I cant seem to find my inner voice to help me with this…

    Any ideas??

  317.  #317Robin on December 20, 2009 at 4:40 pm

    Oh, he did say he’d call me later…

    We shall see…

  318.  #318Daria on December 20, 2009 at 4:47 pm

    Real Player 11 will let me download all videos and audios on the internet, but the new Real Player SP will not.

    So I’m going to download the old version again.

  319.  #319Velvetine on December 20, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    I’m feeling sad. I miss him so much and am here to stop myself from emailing him. Maybe it’s the time of year. So many people around but still so lonely at times. An emptiness and aching takes control of me. The pain so strong I cry uncontrollably.

    I can email him with all the feeling messages and girliness in the world and I will still be leaning forward and even if he gives a friendly reply I will feel rejected and ashamed. I can feel the coldness.

    We broke up 18 months ago. I cut contact with him 4 months ago. If he wanted me he would be here.

    I just wish I could have practiced all my new knowledge on him when he was here. He will never feel my new goddessness. He will only know the clinging, controlling, unhappy creature I was. It feels unfair.

    I feel sad for my loss, for our dead baby and for how beautiful he was. I feel anger that he left. I couldn’t be friends. It killed me to pretend that was how I felt. It felt strong to say I couldn’t be his friend because I felt more than that. But now I need to handle the loss.

  320.  #320mary on December 20, 2009 at 5:27 pm

    hi Robin:

    sounds like you’re having a hard time this christmas! i feel sad about that. if i were you, i wouldn’t give this guy anything. no card. no present, even if he pops in and gives you one. if he does that, just say, “oh my! what a pleasant surprise,” or something like that. figure out what scarlett o’hara would say and say that! but presents are for guys who are in your life, right before you, under your nose. they’re for guys who call and give you the attention you deserve. and cards, too.

    2 cents.

  321.  #321mary on December 20, 2009 at 5:35 pm

    hello velveteen. i love your name so much! why didn’t i think of that? i’m mary. i’ve just been on for a while, and it’s probably not where i’ll live, but i’m camping out on my computer for a while to study for a real estate exam, so just for a few breaks here and there, i like to see what’s going on. love talking to everyone on the Isle of Si Ren.

    all i can say is OH MY, you are strong to have cut off contact with a guy who is the father of a baby that you had and lost! i’m so sad for you about that.

    i cut off contact with a guy that i was engaged to, and he’s back now. missed me. maybe that will happen to you! or maybe not. and it might not work out long term with my guy… but i will tell you that the time when i was not with him – when i wouldn’t respond to his emails or phone calls – helped me to build self esteem and confidence, and i’m a different person now. really. it gave me some self-respect, too. i just want to encourage you because it’s difficult. you feel like you’re hurting the other person, and it hurts you, too. but you do it because you must protect yourself.

    i encourage you. read any of rori’s posts on Lovers to Friends and Back Again and you’ll be so glad you said NO to being a friend. I salute you.

  322.  #322Daria on December 20, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    I give up trying to write guys who friend me but not message me. I will now be adding them as friends, especially if they’re cute, and putting them in the ‘new friends i don’t know” category

  323.  #323alias girl on December 20, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    velvetine i feel love and compassion. my wish for you is to find comfort and companionship. if it helps in the slightest, i understand your loneliness. if that helps you to feel not so alone in it. xoxo

  324.  #324Daria on December 20, 2009 at 6:35 pm

    a really interesting text i received froma guy that i was having a back and forth with about him coming to me and date planning, an me feeling angry and saying so and saying that i dont want to plan stuff etc. from him complaining that i want him to do everything and me telling him i dont want a man that doesnt want to take care of me

    so he texts

    “So you run away from me because i think realistically and cuz i don’t do everything you want.. It doesn’t work that way both people are suppose to put forth effort”

    this text made me think. I do believe in a relationship both people are suppose to put forth effort. Right now though I believe and am starting to realize that my effort is better directed toward pleasing myself, and facing the fear of expressing myself fully.

    as far as effort effort, I can put in effort for a family and children when that time comes

    but not for a date

  325.  #325Daria on December 20, 2009 at 6:42 pm

    I just texted him that

  326.  #326mary on December 20, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    hmmmm… daria, that makes me wonder too… about self effort. when is it not enough and when is it too much? hard to know…

  327.  #327alias girl on December 20, 2009 at 7:45 pm

    blegh. square peg. round hole. i just talked to this one guy. i feel so amazed at how different energies combined yield different results. his and my energy combining was blegh.

    ew. i feel like i just ate bad food. ew.

  328.  #328Simply Shannon on December 20, 2009 at 8:28 pm

    Lisa: I also believe I was always/am always loved by God. I was just blind to it before. 😉

    Nikita: I feel really intrigued. A Christian program for a few months? Wow. You feel like an enigma to me. It’s like looking at a snow globe from different angles. I never know what else I’m going to see. I feel fascinated. I would feel flattered if you would share the details and what felt compelling to you about it. BTW, are you still engaged? Oops, just saw your post about divinity studies and thoughts of being a nun. Again, I feel fascinated.

  329.  #329Simply Shannon on December 20, 2009 at 8:29 pm

    Thank you to all for the sweet words about what happened to me today! I feel open and relieved. HUGE weight lifted off of me the moment I made my public display of faith. It felt amazing. I don’t feel so scared of being alone, because I never will be. (Which is so incredibly simple and so incredibly unbelievable!) I do feel curious, wondering what the ripples will be in my pond now that this HUGE rock has been plunked down in the center. As to Rori’s program, I think this fits in exactly with Rori’s beliefs. Rori is teaching us to be authentic, to be our true selves, to find what makes us happy so that we can pour out that love to others. This is EXACTLY what Christ and the bible are all about. When I am filled up with the Holy Spirit (or my passion for life or whatever it is that makes me get out of bed in the morning), I feel overflow (waterwheel) to other people. Besides, in my opinion, Rori’s focus is actually not on MEN or relationships, it’s on us… the work we’re doing on our insides. She wants us to be so full of loving ourselves that we aren’t focused on men. And isn’t that really how it should be? I plan to continue to write here because this is great practice for me, AND I won’t kid myself and pretend that I don’t want a man in my life. It’s just not going to be my main focus. *I* want to learn about God, and I truly believe if I’m doing that and feeling great from WITHIN that a man / men will just show up in my life. It won’t feel like work because I won’t be laser focused on men in the first place.

  330.  #330Simply Shannon on December 20, 2009 at 8:29 pm

    I feel excited and nervous about what is to come with my life. I feel anxious to get started, like there’s something coming. I don’t know. I feel calm because I truly have faith now (no more just saying it, I believe it with all my heart). But I do feel butterflies in my belly wondering, and I feel amused because I don’t even know which direction I should look.

    On a man related note, I felt nervous about telling all these fellas that I’m seeing about what happened today. I did it anyway because this is a part of my life now. All of them responded with great enthusiasm and curiosity. It felt so cool! I cannot wait to share my story with them. Some may back off but truthfully I’ll feel glad if they do. I don’t want to be with anyone who doesn’t share my faith. This is a boundary for me now.

    In the same way that I felt nervous about telling the fellas, I felt a little nervous writing what about it here as well. Religion just seems to get this red flag treatment in so many places like it should be taboo talk. I say “whateva” to that BUT I don’t want to be the bible thumping chick who is cramming my faith down anyone’s nose. This is just my story. I’m not here to convert anyone or bring anyone down. This is about who I am and what is going on in my life.

  331.  #331Nikita on December 20, 2009 at 8:34 pm

    I am not engaged….death paid a visit and the depression is closing in……on the man…..nothing I can do about that……my experience is most have a crisis of faith when death touches too close…and a re-birth of the spirit occurs….mortality becomes tangible….

    I’m just sayin……some of my fave people are dead…it changes us 😉


  332.  #332Simply Shannon on December 20, 2009 at 8:51 pm

    Nikita: I feel bad reading someone died recently. I’m sorry. I also feel yucky for putting you on the spot with my question. I did (and still do) feel curious what is happening in your life. I noticed you haven’t been posting as much lately, and I wondered where you’ve been. (((HUGS)))

  333.  #333Nikita on December 20, 2009 at 9:02 pm

    Hugs back…..I’ve been traveling, left my girly roomie…who I am now suspecting of being a narcissist 🙂 seriously-it explains a lot about our interactions the past few weeks…..and I trust myself a lot more…….he didn’t have the masculinity to make space for my feelings cuz he’s too busy fabricating his own…and playing victim…..

    anyhew……matters not, I wish him the best… I’m in the mood for a major change….so I’m considering the “nun” route 😉 learn some stuff, relax, be taken care of for a while……cook ….clean….normal girl stuff that I rarely do cuz I’m out in the world being a boy and trailblazing,teaching, fighting for free-will…which is FREE…but some people-“helpers” think free-will is about their will….and I’m tired…..I feel “done”.
    I’m feeling ok to be celibate for a while too…..since feelings are so contagious…it’s probably a good time to step back from other’s energy systems and stuff 😉

  334.  #334Nikita on December 20, 2009 at 9:05 pm

    Don’t feel bad SS, the death wasn’t that recent-I just never mentioned it….it’s been floating around this fall…and it feels more acute now that xmas is here…but….I feel fine. I feel supportive but …….I can’t fix it

  335.  #335Nikita on December 20, 2009 at 9:06 pm

    Yikes….I mean….I didn’t mean to make any one feel bad….but I welcome any feelings you have about it 😉

    Silly me…..I can’t expect you to NOT FEEL BAD……sigh*

    our word is our wand ……

  336.  #336Nikita on December 20, 2009 at 9:24 pm


    I romanticize being a nun…but the lifestyle is too rigid for me…however this allows me to take a peek into it, as I am fascinated with the idea of being “cloistered” in a sense…I feel the world dropping away a bit so that I can study things that seem frivolous to others without being pulled into any masculine energy. I want to feel protected while I bunker down and study scripture….and I am far from the bible thumping type of woman…I have an interest in theology and I love to just sink into words and reflect and apply them to life…..

    and deep inside I feel confident something so intense would alter my vibe to the point where I magnetize the divine mate 😉 I presume I’ll be triggered repeatedly when I can’t sleep until noon on!!!!

  337.  #337Simply Shannon on December 20, 2009 at 9:44 pm

    I’ve missed you Nikita. No doubt about it.
    So… you’ve dumped your girly-man roommate and now you fancy a few months “cloistered” (I love saying that word) with only women where one has to wake up at the crack of dawn every day and live like a nun? Hmmm… ummm… well… [scratching head]… that certainly feels interesting to read. Maybe even a little ironic? 🙂 LOL! I actually find this fascinating. I feel peaceful reading your posts, and I imagine that is because you feel peaceful about this decision. Brava Nikita for following your heart and doing something so unexpected (at least to me). I will miss your voice here but feel excited to hear all about it when you get back. When do you go? Sigh. I want to live vicariously. I feel slightly jealous but incredibly happy for you to pursue this. I’m currently looking for a bible study group near me (more like weekly meetings though). What you described sounds so cool!

  338.  #338Nikita on December 20, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    A disciple 😉 and noooooooo cigarettes will be permitted !!! haha…..I love teasing myself…..

    immersed…..and clean….I haven’t made a final decision but the timing is right for me…winter, I don’t need to go out. I can come out in the summer a bit to flirt 😉

  339.  #339gina on December 20, 2009 at 10:18 pm

    oh Nikita I find you so intriguing! especially your ideas about “people helpers” not respecting free will. I love that you desire to teach…I also like what seems like conservative values i hear from you. maybe those are just my own conservative values I’m loving, and it feels good to hear them expressed by you.

    Gary just came over, and we just talked and held each other. It felt good and I feel all warm and touched and doused with masculinity. I love that I told him that I felt concerned with the way we haven’t talked so much since we started having sex. and he said “so how about we make a pact not to have sex and just talk to each other.” we kept it and it felt good and my roommate owes me 20$ bwa ha ha!!

  340.  #340Nikita on December 20, 2009 at 10:28 pm

    I have a dead friend named Gary 😉 see! I know dead people
    I feel amused at my bonds …..

  341.  #341alias girl on December 20, 2009 at 10:29 pm

    gina that felt so sweet. 🙂

    nikita i feel intriguied by your possible new direction.

    i have the sniffles which i feel simultaneously happy and angry about. i feel angry because i hate being sick. i feel happy because i love after i’ve been sick that i always appreciate my health more.

  342.  #342Nikita on December 20, 2009 at 10:38 pm

    oh me too…..i feel sore throaty and angry at my smoking but happy and optimistic about feeling strong again

  343.  #343Lisa on December 20, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    Simply Shannon,

    I am reminded of the wonderful lyrics to “Amazing Grace” — Bill Moyers did a whole program on the song, did you see it?


    You bring up an important topic for joy: death. Many mystics have said, if we can accept our own death as imminent (and “immanent”, which it is), then we are free. Live as though dead, and every day becomes a miracle.

    That, sirens, is an eye-opener. If you’ve almost died, or died, you know what I’m talking about. It’s here, so like Dorothy Parker said, “might as well live.”

    Rivers of pettiness will fall away when that veil falls!

  344.  #344Tina on December 20, 2009 at 11:08 pm

    I feel frustrated that ‘truckman” is leaning back grr, he sees I am online but deosnt make an effort to anything, we did leave on bad terms kinda. I’m just going to out girl him put him out of my mind and out girl him, lean back even further until I disappear. I”m starting to feel sadness when I see him online and he doesnt message me, I was bonding 🙂 damnit. We made all these plans for christmas concerts 🙁 He doesnt want to contact me because he doesnt want to, simple as that.

  345.  #345Tina on December 20, 2009 at 11:24 pm

    I want to send him a “feelings message” that will help me heal:)

  346.  #347Tina on December 21, 2009 at 12:17 am

    I sent him a message I said I feel good about our time together, I said I feel bad about how things ended, I said I feel good that in the future when we meet that this will all come to pass and we can be friends. I said I know you have a lot on your plate with your brother and good luck to the both of you and I sincerely mean that. I said I feel good that we didnt get into a physically intimate relationship so soon and no one felt hurt.

    something like that.


  347.  #348Tina on December 21, 2009 at 12:34 am

    ok, i dont know if that was good or not so good thing to do but i did it anyway. I feel good about it, now I dont have to watch him watch me blah.

  348.  #349alias girl on December 21, 2009 at 12:40 am

    thanks for the article nikita. i feel good you are on your path. 🙂

  349.  #350alias girl on December 21, 2009 at 12:55 am

    aaaahhhcchooooo! sniffle*sniffle…

  350.  #351mary on December 21, 2009 at 12:59 am


    i clicked on your link and was just blown away. still reeling. thank you for these thoughts.

    love, mary

  351.  #352Nikita on December 21, 2009 at 1:07 am

    Yay 🙂

  352.  #353mary on December 21, 2009 at 1:13 am

    i have been polling people all my life to try to figure out what to do. who to be with. where to go. how to get there. what to wear. and that’s probably why i’m here – to get more instructions!

    but just very recently, maybe since i’ve been on siren island, i’ve begun to take in the information that i’m receiving and process it differently. i thought i knew all that stuff about feelings until i came and took off my clothes and laid down in the sun to bask with all the beauties here.

    nikita, i hope i can learn to find my sacral responses. i think i used to have discernment, too, when i was little, but was always around people who had agendas for me, and i wanted so much to please them, and had it within me to be flexible, so i did what was best for them. and forgot how to even to me. i think i was listening to borrowed answers, too!

    i really, really resonate with this part: “Now, I see, that it simply does not matter “who says” something or how wise it may sound. I now have something inside that I trust totally to guide me. There is no outer authority for me anymore. There is simply no one outside of me that I trust over my sacral response. This is such a new experience for me. In the past, I have always been so easily influenced by others.”

    thank you so much for sharing this very personal journey.

  353.  #354mary on December 21, 2009 at 1:16 am

    R came back early from whistler. drove straight to me! took me to dinner!

  354.  #355mary on December 21, 2009 at 1:22 am

    yesterday i was mad that he went to whistler, party town. i determined that the best response when i saw him again was just to act as if it didn’t bother me, but it did.

    but then i started thinking…

    i just decided to go out of town to study, and i didn’t even discuss it with him. I just told him one night that i was leaving the next day, and would only be around from christmas to new years, and he probably wouldn’t see me (except for that week) until february.

    i was wondering how i might feel if he told me he was going to do that.

    so tonight, first thing, i asked him. he was surprised. he said he had mixed feelings. he said he knew i was free and could do whatever i wanted, but he was sad that i didn’t care to be closer to him when i was studying. he also said that he knew that i had it in me to do that! i said what? and he said that when i decided on something, it was usually non-negotiable (because i’ve been so overpowered all my life), so he knew better than to argue with me.


    I said, “i bet that made you feel out of control.” and he nodded “yes.”

    revelations for me.

    so i totally flipped over to his point of view and forgot any angry feelings about him going skiing without me. i said, “i’d like to think about this some more.” very important: i didn’t apologize, because that’s what i usually do. not because i wasn’t sorry, but because i wanted to set this apart as a special moment.

    and it was.

  355.  #356Nikita on December 21, 2009 at 1:34 am

    I just googled sacral response…feels like intuition…but defined….Don’t know who wrote it

  356.  #357mary on December 21, 2009 at 1:37 am

    oh! I thought you wrote it! how beautiful it was!

  357.  #358Daria on December 21, 2009 at 2:00 am

    so what happened with that guy who i wrote back that i thought about his text aobut both puttingin effort?

    he complained again abut him having to do everything

    i said this doesnt feel good and i dont want to text aobut it or have it in my life

    and he said that im a selfish and stuckup little girl.

    I feel glad to release this!

  358.  #359Daria on December 21, 2009 at 2:05 am

    I feel glad to release some of my loneliness too! my friend is visiting from ny and shes sleeping right here in my room. it feels less lonely already.

    also i just did a round of tapping on guys not driving to me hehe


    its solstice nite but i feel sleepy. not getting up at dawn for me hehe

    i did go to this solstice thingy it was WEIRD. it felt like being with a bunch of witches. i did open my heart tho . we also go to make chanting sounds and we did a lament and it really sounded SCARY just like youd imagine witches sounding, like cackling weird weepy yet scary voices omgosh. if i was in the woods and i heard some thing like that and women all dressed in black (most were) i would feel So scared. but i was there so i didnt feel as scared just a lil tho. even tho i knew we were the ones mking the noises.

    i did get in touch with my lament and opened my heart to the pain i had and it felt good, i even cried. then i went into the celebbration side of the room and danced my steps and felt good and giggly. i felt very expressive!!

    then i left quickly to pick up my girl at the airport. i dont think ill be going to taht circle again but it was an interesting experience and message.

    i still want to learn to use my voice tho. my voice sounded better after it.

  359.  #360alias girl on December 21, 2009 at 2:12 am

    oohh i would feel fun to have a friend sleeping in my room with me.

    the witch thing doesn’t really sound like my cup of tea but maybe in a past lifetime. 🙂

    i feel self blaming for getting sick. i love my self blame. i love my cold, sniffling, achoo-ness.

  360.  #361Daria on December 21, 2009 at 2:13 am

    i used my sacral response to not answer that “big” guy who wanted to marry me last month. he wrote me on myspaceL hi baby. and then a few minutes later. baby.

    umm. no. i dont need to answer him, he stood me up that time and didnt replan a date since. no thank you. yeah i may have missed some of his calls initially but oh well. voicemail available.

    in my openess i would usually answer, but eh i feel gross and drained answering that in this situation.

    so i didnt. it was the sacral response i looked for. i was actually getting ready to answer.

  361.  #362Daria on December 21, 2009 at 2:15 am

    yes. i know im a witch but not a gothic kinda witch or even a farmy kinda witch. im a Goddess kinda witch a Bitch Goddess too.

  362.  #363Daria on December 21, 2009 at 2:17 am

    ima colorful witch! i felt like the dawn goddess! i felt pretty and i also felt superior and i feel guilty about it… but i feel ok with loving myself

  363.  #364Daria on December 21, 2009 at 2:20 am

    AG how is the masculine energy experiment?

    i felt SO inspired by it!

    i did something close well actually this guy i added now wrote me hi sexy and i wrote back

    hi papi im feeling good except my tummy hurts a lil bit. it would feel fun to talk to u by phone im getting off myspace.. im at ……….

    as my first message back. noramlly i would actually write that but not right away, i wanted to rush things but i did it as an experiment.

    now i realize talking on the phoe might feel awkward cuz i dont want to wake up my friend

  364.  #365alias girl on December 21, 2009 at 2:20 am

    i put christmas decorations in my apt. hey if anyone wants me to send them a christmas card i would feel happy to. 🙂

  365.  #366Daria on December 21, 2009 at 2:21 am

    he didnt write back or call me yet. the other hey baby guy now wrote Hey.

    i feel almost like responding but not.

  366.  #367Daria on December 21, 2009 at 2:22 am

    AG for some reason the last few times i clilcked on your name it doenst take me to yoru blog

  367.  #368alias girl on December 21, 2009 at 2:23 am

    daria i gained a ton of goddessness by my being a boy experiment. i feel really happy about it. now NO guy feels off limits or “out of my league” to me. haha.

    also i gained a lot of compassion for being the boy. and also the only reason i knew how to be such a slick boy was by having been on the girl end of it.

    and it was fun to see the boys responding in similar ways to girls do. it was fun.

  368.  #369alias girl on December 21, 2009 at 2:25 am

    oh thanks daria. that’s jacked!

    i had forgotten to put the i guess. weird.

    sometimes i click on yours and it takes me to a site that my computer gives me a !!! warning !!!! about. but it’s not your site.

    thannks for telling me. haha maybe i’ll get more traffic now. haha or not. probably when i get on tv though lots of people will come visit. 🙂

  369.  #370Daria on December 21, 2009 at 2:26 am

    i am doing the lean forward experiment with this guy now ! yah

    i re wrote him basically saying i know that was sudden im not crazy i do want to talk to u i feel hella sleepy and am realizing the phon mite wake up my girl

    totally uneeded but hey… its all in teh experiment

  370.  #371Daria on December 21, 2009 at 2:30 am

    oohhh he texted me!!! he says what do i want to do since my girl!

  371.  #372Daria on December 21, 2009 at 2:31 am

    AG please please tell more details. in what way were u a slick boy?

    how did it change who u think is out of your limits?? please explain!!! so excited curious

    is this something you would include in the regular?

  372.  #373alias girl on December 21, 2009 at 2:37 am

    welll it also made me realize i do not like being a boy. but it gave me great compassion for how hard they are actually trying it’s just often it doesn’t lool like that. but once they are feeling sort of comfortable and confident it seems many fall naturally into boy mode.

    also i liked how it seemed they IMMEDIATELY INTUITIVELY wanted to wrangle the boy position.

    well slick in that i just did everything i wanted them to do. i called them and i adjusted so they were comfortable and i listened to what they were saying with intent to please and i was looking at their profiles as i spoke so i could keep the conversation flowing. it was a lot of WORK!!!


  373.  #374alias girl on December 21, 2009 at 2:38 am

    i feel sad my link to my blog wasn’t working practically the whole month and nobody noticed. ahahaha.

    so i guess the idea of me starting a fan club for $25/ yr is out.


  374.  #375alias girl on December 21, 2009 at 2:41 am

    also the guys were so excited because women rarely ever take the initiative. but also i told them what i was doing and that it was an experiment and such. honestly, they didn’t seem that interested in that aspect. they were interested that we were speaking, not so much WHY.

    boys don’t seem to care about the emotional WHY of things like girls do. it seems many boys care about teh technical whys of things like their ipod.

    really though. a whole month and no one wanted to stop by? and see my coconut oil experiment or my ice skating adventure or hear a few words from MCBEAR?

    Really? pssshhh. hard to believe.

  375.  #376alias girl on December 21, 2009 at 2:46 am

    oh and it opened up the field for me because i don’t feel like i am waiting in the wings for someone to ask me to dance. or hoping the cute boy asks. or being disappointed that this other guy asked.

    i can have my way with whoever i want.

    and since my motto is

    no waiting, no way

    well it just erased a lot of the disappointment factor and upped the fun factor.

  376.  #377alias girl on December 21, 2009 at 2:53 am

    also it’s like i went so overboard with the whole thing that the “five second” glance feels like a cakewalk.

    now it’s like a menu of five second glances and which one would feel good:

    hi you’re cute glance
    or the wow glance
    or the yes come talk to me glance


  377.  #378Kaitlyn on December 21, 2009 at 3:12 am

    Ya know, I’m tardy to the party here but I needed this post, Rori.

    If he (yes, at only age 25) was man enough to step up the way he did when he pursued me, not calling me after we slept together will not be excused as ‘because he’s shy.’

    Thank you. That. Is. All.

  378.  #379alias girl on December 21, 2009 at 3:15 am

    kaitlyn did he end up calling ever again? did you share your feelings?

  379.  #380Kaitlyn on December 21, 2009 at 3:23 am

    No need to share my feelings.

  380.  #381alias girl on December 21, 2009 at 3:25 am

    right well right definitely. and no need for me to offer advice!!!!!!!

  381.  #382alias girl on December 21, 2009 at 3:26 am

    you will work that out in your own way and i fully support you 100% and i might do things different but nobody is asking my freaking advice and anyway i swore off “helping” people.


    kaitlyn you will totally work this out. i feel confident. and i feel supportive and thank you for sharing on the blog.

  382.  #383Daria on December 21, 2009 at 3:53 am

    AG you mean you did the man thing in real life too?

    i feel so surprised about teh 5 second glance. I feel jealous!!!

    i notice at about 2 seconds guys start to act attracted. a full 5 second one is just like whoa…

    i feel afraid when they start to get attracted

    ps i just got off my convo with guy i thought i was being guy like with

    he took charge of the convo and i didnt go out my way to have silence. i talked and asked curious questions and was funny but i was still feeling my feelings and i felt good the whole time! and connected!

    and he asked me if i have a licensce and i jsut told him im not telling him

    so now he wants to see me hehe

    yay i liked it

    and hes not totally my type but i was too busy being part of the convo and feeling good to judge! what!?

    i like this experiment

    i plan on maybe leaning forward on more guys or what not. i think i have been leaning forward in my head maybe while not doing it out loud, so thats been even more lean forwardy

  383.  #384Daria on December 21, 2009 at 3:54 am

    i got called spoiled but for some reason this no longer triggers me. probably cuz im not longer triggered by anxiety with judgements and criticizms yeah! i used to hate it, but now it is what it is. i spoil myself. i am a Goddess. i told him yeah!

  384.  #385Daria on December 21, 2009 at 3:55 am

    Ag i did notice and i was hoping it would fix itself but it didnt. apparently like you said even just now mine was going somewhere else… why? i didnt change it? did i get phished

  385.  #386Daria on December 21, 2009 at 4:02 am

    I am willing to lean forward with men if it will bring that place where i feel comfy doing a 5 second look. i now feel insecure that i will suck at making a man feel comfortable. perhaps i shouldnt start by calling my exes and ask to take them out and bring flowers. i feel like a butch dyke doing that. which is ok. just not what im going for. i can perhaps lean forward with new men.. that feels scary too. i can lean forward with that one cute guy!! yes!

    i feel scared to. i feel terrified… oh ag please tell more of how you did it, and how it works. ok i already asked ag that and she told me. shes not gonna be willing to help me becuase its not clear what i need.

    i dont know what i need. i dont know how to lean forward with men. i think they will take off running and i will feel bad. and i dont want to feel bad. rrr

  386.  #387Daria on December 21, 2009 at 4:07 am

    is it lean forward to say to a guy … we can talk rite now for a couple minutes before i go to bed

    should be right? cuz its a suggestion?

    but… its up to him still?

    grr unclearness

  387.  #388alias girl on December 21, 2009 at 4:22 am

    daria your blog seems to be working now. yae.

    i didn’t think of it as lean forward because that feels confusing to me. i thought of it as i am going to be the man and court these men as if they were women.

    which they seemed to not want. 🙂

    except one guy i was explaining my financial situation at the moment and buying coffee for two doesn’t even feel doable so maybe we would have to wait a couple of weeks. and he said “that’s ok he could drink water”

    now on the one hand, how cute and sweet. on the other hand wtf. he wouldn’t offer to pay for coffee???????

    and then we got to talking about finances and since he knew i was experimenting with being the boy

    when it came up about money he said well we could go “50-50” and i told him that would absolutely not feel good to me. either he would pay or i would pay but no fifty fifty. but then i said well you’re unemployed right now so you don’t have any money and well maybe we should just stick to doing things that don’t cost anything and he agreed.

    but honestly i felt turned off by this lack of enthusiasm for wanting to pay ANYTHING for me. YUCK.
    ew. because if i were a man i would feel HAPPY to pay for a woman i was interested in. so this guy is probably not a keeper. plus he lives far away etc etc etc

    totally not the point though. the point was the experiment and how it freed me up and how fun some of the conversations were. just enlightening.

    but i don’t know that i would want to “lean forward” that doesn’t feel great to think about.

    but playing the boy felt ok to me. it could just be semantics. i feel sure you know waht i am saying.

  388.  #389Kaitlyn on December 21, 2009 at 5:17 am

    Awww, AG, I wasn’t disregarding you. Him and I didn’t know each other well enough or long enough for me to share my hurt feelings with him. That’s all.

  389.  #390Linda on December 21, 2009 at 7:15 am

    There is a new post but I am going to post here. I wrote earlier about the man who I cared for that has been in and out of my world off and on this year. He sent the text “what cha doin'” ?…. That was last Tuesday.

    Saturday morning I was out shopping for Christmas, I have been thinking and feeling my way thru things. I was thinking about this post “not wanting to get to the end of my life and look back at the missed opportunities”… so after a long week of struggling with my history with this guy and this deep gut feeling I cant make go away about directed destiny etc….

    I decided to respond to him. I simply said “still curious”?
    He responded within a minute. Yes, always, it is our nature isn’t it? I responded.. I suppose, so what are you doing?….. I thought I would play a long. Then added, I must say however that I am not randomly curious about people only the one that I care about typically. He responded.. thank you, and that he was headed to work. I did not know what he was thanking me for so I asked. Why the thank you? He said “for caring”…..

    Funny that he assumed that I cared. Of course I still do but it is different. I have invested no energy into him for months. And been circular dating. My energy feels different, but under it all, I miss him and the common ground that we shared.

    Later in the day I asked him if he had a special christmas wish and he responded, about his need for a car. (Mine is a wonderful yummy man under my mistletoe, and if things were right, he would be my choice)…. I did not tell him mine, nor would I.

    The interaction between us continues… he text me last night asking about how my day was? I am simply shocked…. I stood in the mirror and ask…what is going on here? Has there been a shift? I know that this post says a man does not call because he doesnt want to. When they do they do….

    I am glad that I finally responded, maybe he is too. I realized when we were texting that I miss things about him… maybe he misses me too. I dont know what his head is thinking that is not my concern. My head ?… I was reminded about things that I decided could never happen or changes.

    My actions and attitudes are not centered on him, but deep down inside I have this “knowing” about us that is yet to unfold.

    I am not crazy honest.


  390.  #391Flipper on December 21, 2009 at 7:28 am

    Mary, Rori made it quite clear that the question to ask is ‘What do you THINK’, but NOT “what are you feeling about that?’. She explained it all somewhere, I can’t remember where or exactly what, but it made sense. Jived with my own experience, and what several friends had told me about guys who got into touchy-feely stuff that felt good in the beginning and then blech, they wanted to run when it got into overkill. And guess whose feelings got the spotlight, in fact the exclusive, always on spotlight over the dissection table? (I was reminded of this as soon as you brought up feminine-energy man – what do you think?)

    Fits with what AG just said about guys not being curious to know Why about emotions. Most seem to just feel them inside without a verbal filter – just a more direct impulsion or inhibition to action. And though words do help them to accept and deal with emotions, apparently that’s our job to furnish them. I;e., no inner dialogue about their feelings to tap into when questioned; as if the vocabulary is passive so they can understand when they hear it, but not very active for self expression. So asking what they feel must feel confusing – like having to use an inadapted feminine tool to get to their feminine side, which they may or may not acknowledge or feel comfortable with having.

    Besides using a tool they’re used to, asking what men think has other advantages.: respecting their feelings and their way of feeling them, which is not under their control, because the thinking addresses their behavior, which is voluntary, and its consequences inasmuch as it affects US. Without having to expose their feelings to judgement. And they remain free to choose their behavior and attitude. (Whereas showing our emotional vulnerability through words demonstrates our strength, earns respect and creates empathy, that is not their way.)

    I’ve often felt that words/talking don’t seem to have much intrinsic value for guys – it’s what the words DO for them that count . I wonder if that’s why patriarchal religions embody the Word in a male god(s) – so that men relate to its value.

  391.  #392mary on December 21, 2009 at 10:15 am

    Flipper – thank you. that makes sense to me! I’d love to read Rori’s post about it if anyone can find it!

    Is this right? Guys are thinkers. They value our feelings and need to be around our touchy-feely energy to be in touch with theirs. But asking them to talk about their feelings is like asking a person who’s just become comfortable listening to a foreign language to speak it. No can do. Also we don’t want to encourage them to become comfortable in the feminine realm. Eh?

    It sure worked for me last night, so now I’m confused.

  392.  #393Rachel on December 21, 2009 at 11:36 am

    Wow Flipper, that was really helpful. Thank you for taking the time to write all of that out!

    I keep making this mistake. I want to know what is going on at the “deeper level” and those conversations NEVER go well!

  393.  #394tinque on December 21, 2009 at 11:43 am

    I had no internet connection all day yesterday due to our “huge blizzard” all 1 1/2 ” of it LOL. thus my quiet.
    In any case we finally went to the city, NYC that is. It was fabulous, amazing concert at Carnegie Hall, a yummy scrumptious dinner at a Greek restaurant around the corner, and a walk to Rockefeller Center to see the tree which in all the times I’ve been to the city as a child, I’d never seen. Fun, fun, fun.
    It was so cold and slushy, and cutie K, every time we got to a curb that had slush too deep for my pretty suede boots, he picked me up on his hip and carried me over.
    Then we get back to find we had locked ourselves out, too late to wake the landlord though we tried. We had to break a window to get in. lol. All in all an adventurous day and evening.

    In any case there’s too much here to address, but I want to say thank you SO, SO much Mary and Alias Girl.

    And Mary – Women are feeling beings. Men are the thinking ones. It’s not that we don’t think, and men don’t feel. Of course we think, case in point our analytical tendencies, and men feel, case in point, they tend to take break ups harder than we.
    Bu it is our innate natures as women to be in our emotions, the feelers (not the buggy kind) which is why Rori stresses the feeling messages, and men innately are the doers, the thinkers.
    Men respond better being asked to think. Women respond better being asked to feel as evidenced all over this blog.
    Men take our lead in the feeling thing, but it’s internal, not so much verbal. The external is found in the action.
    I hope this helps.

  394.  #395mary on December 21, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    hi tinque!

    yes. i’m glad for this clarification!

    thank you…

  395.  #396Daria on December 21, 2009 at 1:19 pm

    AG – so would a potential conversation go like this?

    Hi I just saw your profile and you look really sexy papi. I want to call you. Whats your number?

    Rrrring… Hi papi its me Daria. I’m doing an experiment practicing to be the man energy when talking to people?
    So as part of that I’m gonna be in charge. I want to see you… what times are you free?

    or do you say im practicing to be in my “masculine” energy, or the active pursuer, or not say anything and just say im in charge?

    because it seems if a i tell a man im practicing to be the “man energy” he will be like no no fast. cuz that will sound emasculating to him and i dont want to emasculate him, cuz that would feel bad to his feelings?

    can you clarify more for me? i feel guilty and afraid you won’t, but this is new territory for me. I feel like im just re-starting rori and needing tiny bit by bit clarification of what EXACTLY you do

  396.  #397mary on December 21, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    i’m curious too, AG.

  397.  #398mary on December 21, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    hello simply shannon and nikita…

    there is this amazing christian book written by a woman named Hannah Whithall Smith called The Christian’s Secret to a Happy Life.

    it’s a classic. the first two chapters are difficult, but smooth sailing from then on. you can read it online. just skip around to view whatever interests you.

    there’s an online chat on this book started today! i joined, and if you sign up and keep your names i’ll see you and say hey…

  398.  #399mary on December 21, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    the book:

    consider the chapter on growth.

    very interesting talk about self effort in light of rori’s “lean back” approach to men. similar concept…

  399.  #400Daria on December 21, 2009 at 3:26 pm

    mmm… so im doing this Im in charge experiment and it feels GREAT!

    i mean its like… i dont have to worry or stress about a guy coming to me i can go to them. they WANT me to. and also I can have fun and make witty remarks and jokes and ask thema bunch of questions. and they ask me to. and our conversation is fun and flowy.

    so whats going on. maybe before i was actually in my head rather than in my feelings?

    i also seem to be fairly aware of my feelings doing this stuff. so far my feelings have been a comfortable great feeling GOOD

  400.  #401alias girl on December 21, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    oh good daria i feel good you sort of figured it out on your own. um no the point is NOT to emasculate a man. it’s about ME. MY experiment with being “more aggressive” because as women we are taught to be passive and i started thinking maybe i’m just not that.

    I used kinds of phrasing like that. and then joking about “being in charge”. i mean i was delicate with my wording and very caring for their “feelings”

    also i said “i would love to take you out for coffee sometime. what do you think?”

    or “I’d like to get your number so i can call you. are you comfortable with that?”

    i literally was trying to be a man and care for their “feelings”

    great experiment as you are probably finding out. not a great way to live. 🙂 which is great though. i got to find out i truly want to be the girl and also how to be more authentic with who i truly am. which is not necessarily ms. passive.

    no waiting, no way.

    i feel very interested to hear more of your own experiment with this daria.

    tinque how exciting to have a “Blizzard” hehehe. sorry about the lockout though. something like that always feels disruptive for me.

    mary i believe rori’s ebook has the dilineation of male and female energy. which ebook? the ebook is a GREAT foundation for all of rori’s work.

    kaitlyn no problem. i just want to support people but i keep overfunctioning with my desire to “help” (“fix”). thank you though for saying something. i feel appreciative.

    flipper i feel amazed at your intellect sometimes. thank you for sharing.

  401.  #402Daria on December 21, 2009 at 4:35 pm

    I feel BAD! I feel confused! my “in charge” convos felt GREAT! except for a tiny one online …

    but now i just feel confused.


    I was doing it all wrong i think!!! the lean back. i felt so forced and so much silence, vs now I felt so CONNECTED

    2. it felt so easy and GOOD and relaxing to decide that ok i can go visit a man…

    but where will that take me long run? i dono… but i felt totally comfortable with going the first time…

    3. I don’t know which way is up anymore! I feel confused and that makes me feel tight faced and downturn mouth corners


    have i been doing it wrong.? and if so ok but how do i get this?


    why does me “taking charge” feel so GOOD?

    was i secretly mentally overfunctioning before? by being silent instead of speaking up and asking questions?


    I told the guy im practicing being in charge. I even told him Im thinking of questions to ask him. and this being in charge thing is tough.

    BUt i felt likea girl… i didnt feel like a man.

    I also didn’t quite do what you did AG, which is ask him too much about if he feels comfortable etc

    but i DID at one point experiment and ask him how he felt. he was like uhh uhh im chillin… good I guess… we both laughed cuz it felt awkward to answer that haha… like what? i dont get it …

    UMMM… so maybe i was actually holding back my natural feminine curiosity?


    and i feel scared. I feel scared ill feel great and connected but wont spark attraction with these men. Because Ive felt so connected to my guy friends, including guy who had a baby but that didnt work out. So i dont want that to replay. like ok i feel great and connected but really hes not into me anymore…

    i feel so desperate for men to be into me that i will NOT speak and lean back desperately. MAybe thats how it was actually overfunctioning?


    i feel tight mouth.

  402.  #403mary on December 21, 2009 at 4:50 pm

    maybe you’re into extremes? maybe there’s a middle ground?

    leaning back as a LOOSELY held game plan, when sometimes it might be appropriate to call, or to pay for a meal, or to invite a man, or to take care of him in some other way?

    taking charge finding that it feels good is what you and AG are doing by experimenting! maybe you’re not getting just a charge out of putting on your baseball caps; maybe you’re also getting a charge out of rebelling and leaning forward instead of back, like you’ve been practicing since you read about rori’s ideas.

    maybe it just feels good to be making the decisions about how you want to do it.

    which is your prerogative.

    maybe there is no right way, and you’re experimenting to find out what works for you.

    i think that’s cool. i feel envious.

  403.  #404mary on December 21, 2009 at 4:52 pm

    and a little tickled.
    and curious.
    and i-can’t-wait-until-the-next-post anxious.
    and proud.
    and glad that i can learn from what you’re doing!

  404.  #405alias girl on December 21, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    daria i am just trying to feel my way through. i was so “judging” men before. WAITING for them to do things the way I THOUGHT they were SUPPOSED to. I wasn’t completely leaning back. I was HOLDING BACK. I believe rori discussed that before.

    i was holding back and then waiting impatiently for them to “do it right”. argh. i feel hideous. i love feeling hideous.

    anyhoo for me i am still very aware how i feel and that is still key for me. like with two guys the convo felt great. with one guy i felt blech.

    and for me the experiment actually brought me more in tune with truly being my yummy girl self. with a hint of boy. i personally feel great about that.

    i’m not going to go chasing boys down and overfunctioning because that feels draining and not good. and i don’t even really have an urge to contact more men online. but i feel like the option is there now. if i wanted to. so i don’t feel like i am holding myself back and i don’t feel in “waiting and hoping” mode.

    I just feel pretty good and desirable. at least for dates. i still feel like damaged goods when it comes to being in a real relationship with a man. but i feel confident that will shift.

    i am a good person. i am just a little unique with my own unique life path. so what if i am different and don’t have the same experiences as others. i guess sometimes i still feel like a bag of garbage when i think about how i will ever fit in with someone’s Family.

    aw that feels so harsh. i love my bag o’ garbage feelings.

  405.  #406alias girl on December 21, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    also regarding the “waiting and hoping”

    some men online seemed like they’d be so great and i used to feel disappointed that they’d view my profile but then they didn’t contact me. and then when i actually spoke to this one guy—welll he was the one i felt the worst talking to,

    so it has just been so opening up for me.

    i feel more open. and more relaxed and flowy.

  406.  #407Flipper on December 21, 2009 at 5:46 pm

    That felt good to read your compliments, and I feel glad and admirative that you were able to get something out of what I write, cuz I can barely understand myself when I reread it. I sense some pretty amazing brain power on Siren Island seconding the exquisitely rich emotional terrain. And I find your expression so clear and profound, each with her own style and verve.

    Thanks, and good night.

  407.  #408Flipper on December 21, 2009 at 5:56 pm

    AG, I Just feel like gathering you up and hugging your ‘discarded’ bits back together. I feel happy you feel relaxed and flowy now, more like a silken sachet of diamonds that I see you as.

  408.  #409alias girl on December 21, 2009 at 6:24 pm

    aw sweetness flipper. thank you. i felt touched to read that. a silken sachet of diamonds. i feel regal and valuable. worth dueling over!!! definitely worth bringing into the family! xoxo!!!!

  409.  #410mary on December 21, 2009 at 6:25 pm

    or a red satin slipper

  410.  #411Daria on December 21, 2009 at 7:05 pm

    AG i feel better. Im getting the same thing. that i felt girly with a touch of rah.

    also that i had been holding back and mentally pressuring them to do it my way

    but i do feel confused cuz rori says to let them flounder. so i dono. i feel confused.

    but i feel good and more fun too. and yes it felt even more girly.

    i feel totally turned off thinking of paying for their meal though.

    i would not do that no way

    well i sure used to back when i was younger, but only because all the money was on my credit card. orr… i dono

    luckily i didnt usually buy guys food. i dont want to talk about that

    i want to talk about the difference between holding back and relaxing – ie leaning back.

    i feel confused about that still Rori. whats going on with AG and I’s experiment?

  411.  #412Erika Awakening on December 21, 2009 at 7:44 pm

    As a coach of men, I can say with complete confidence,

    If he does not call, it does not necessarily mean he doesn’t want to. It may mean he’s scared shitless.

    Doesn’t necessarily mean I disagree with Rori’s advice, because personally I want the men in my life to man up. Men need us to help them man up.

    But I know from coaching these guys that they freak out just like we do, they wait to call because they are worried what you think of them, and then they don’t call.

    And then, believe it or not, they beat themselves up for not calling you. Just like many women beat themselves up for everything under the sun.

    So there’s no need for any of us to take it personally.

    Compassion is the word of the day.

  412.  #413Robin on December 21, 2009 at 7:48 pm

    Mary, thank you for your advice and for reading my post, it felt nice to see your comment.

    Velveteen, I felt so sad reading about what happened and I am so sorry for your loss, we are all here for you…

  413.  #414Robin on December 21, 2009 at 8:03 pm

    I still feel confused about what the best policy is about gift giving at Christmas time with the men we’re dating.

    Heard from him, just asked me via txt how my day was, I told him in feeling messages how the day felt doing the things I did, and he told me what he did, and told me to have a good night. I told him good night, but today nothing, and he leaves Wednesday..

    I feel a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach and tension and heat in my shoulders and the back of my neck and I feel terror in my heart.. and I feel tears welling up behind my eyes…

    I keep being told by family and friends to txt him and tell him I hope to see him and that I have something for him, otherwise He’ll think Im not interested….that Im being mean to all the guys Ive been dating, that they’re gonna disappear if I dont show some interest in them BACK….

    Interest back???

    WTF does that mean?

    Am I not doing that by NOT being a cactus and allowing him to give to me? And my family and friends keep saying that the guys are gonna think that all I do is take take take…

    And I dont want them to get THAT idea either…But I feel afraid that if I lean forward, its gonna push him away..

    What am I doing wrong???

    Its clear to me that something has changed, and it feels like he is markedly avoiding me somewhat, whether consciously or unconsciously….

    And since he has backed away, that leaning in will make it worse, if hes not seeing me b/c he doesnt wanna, leaning forward and DOING something, like giving him a gift will be like me twisting his arm and FORCING him to NOT avoid me (at least for a minute)

    And even though this year has been about feeling and being happier, and I FEEL much happier than before, I feel afraid Im ruining my life, that all the guys will get the impression that Im only out to get what I can for ME, and I know its not ALL about me,

    And I feel afraid that if I dont give him the gift, or contact him, or wish him Merry Christmas (?) that hes gonna think Im some kind of narcissist.

    And I feel like its time to water wheel back, but how exactly do we do that? How does that get brought up? I guess Im gonna have write a speech around that..

    It just feels crappy that we’re not exchanging gifts, we’ve been dating, and it would have felt nice…I guess I got invested a little too much in it…

  414.  #415mary on December 21, 2009 at 8:17 pm

    robin, i’m hear you. i feel so sad! here is where i got my idea not to give him a card or a present. i got this mass email from a dating and relationship coach:

    Hey Beautiful,

    You might be wondering why you haven’t had your usual
    morning email from me in the past few days – it’s
    because of a family medical emergency. Things are
    stable at the moment and I hope to plan ahead a bit
    better so you’ll still get that email with your
    morning coffee as usual!

    Now on to that subject that vexes some of us every
    year at this time:

    1. You’re still interested in him

    2. You don’t have any occasion to run into him
    regularly, so you never see him

    3. You want to send him a holiday card

    4. You’re spending a lot of your mental energy
    on thinking about whether or not you should
    send that card – and what you should write on it.

    5. You’ve also counted the days it will take
    to reach him and you realize that you have
    to make that decision in a matter of days.

    6. Does he send you holiday cards? No. If
    he did, you would not have to be debating
    this question in your mind!

    So what should you do?

    If you have already sent him a card, then don’t
    worry about it – use this information for next year!
    And don’t expect him to send you a card in return.
    If he does, don’t read too much into the gesture,
    or you’ll be driving yourself crazy for yet another
    year – and you don’t need that!

    If you have not yet sent that card, and you’re
    planning to send one – or thinking about it a lot –
    then here are my thoughts on it:

    I know what you’re thinking. You’re thinking that
    I’m going to say, “Don’t send him that card.”

    Well, you’re wrong. I’m actually going to say,
    “Don’t even THINK about sending him that card!!”

    Now before you write this off as being Scrooge-like,
    just listen to WHY:

    Sending a card to a man who is not in your life – or
    who is no longer in your life – involves focusing a
    LOT of your mental and emotional energy on a
    situation that is not going anywhere.

    Once you send it, you’ll have even MORE going on
    in your mind – wondering if he will send you one

    (You may have sent it as early in the season as
    possible, so that he’d have plenty of time to
    send you one.)

    Why do you want him to send you a card? Because
    that would be showing you that he still has some
    feelings for you – and that also could get your
    hopes up about him.

    It’s the same thing when he receives that card
    from you – he knows that you still have feelings
    for him – and that you’re thinking of him.

    “Well, I am!!” you may protest.

    Yes, that’s true – and that’s the whole point.

    Now ultimately – this is your decision. And
    in some cases, it is not such a bad idea –
    but only if you are NOT STILL HUNG UP
    on this guy. Are you? Be honest with yourself…

    If you are, that feeling will come through
    loud and clear in the card – even if the
    card has a big photo of you and your husband
    and children!! (In which case you may be
    focusing on the wrong man…)

    Yes, your card in most cases sends him the
    message that you’re still open to a relationship
    with him.

    What is most likely to happen? Absolutely
    nothing. Your card is not met with a response,
    and it could even get put in the shredder like
    Gordon Gekko’s birthday cards in the movie
    “Wall Street.” That’s how sentimental this
    card may seem to the recipient.

    Well, let’s take this one step further…

    Do you want this man to think about you?

    (Of course you do.)

    In my opinion, the BEST way to get him to
    think about you – instead of you thinking
    about him and getting nowhere – is to NOT
    send him anything whatsoever. No card.

    A card tells him that you want to see him.

    No card tells him that you may have moved
    on with your life – like a healthy woman
    would do regarding a man who is not interested
    in her.

    IF you MUST send him a card, no matter what,
    then promise me this – that you will not include
    an update of your life. No note, no nothing,
    just your name. And that’s it.

    That’s a lot more mysterious – and it shows
    that you are not putting all your effort into
    a thinly veiled “I still want you” message.

    To get over him, you must fill that void
    in your heart that will be there when you
    stop thinking about him – so fill that void
    with friends, new men, learning, helping
    people, and staying busy with positive

    If you went overboard on sending him a card,
    or (horrors) a gift, don’t beat yourself up
    about it. Just move on from there and let
    it go. He had his chance to get back to you.
    If he didn’t, then that tells you everything
    you need to know.

    Yes, to err is human. To recover from a past
    mistake with a guy is… simply divine!

  415.  #416janjune on December 21, 2009 at 8:36 pm

    Hi Erika,
    it would be great to hear more from you.
    i know you have a website but haven’t visited it—i think i will now!
    but please keep commenting b/c i think sometimes you can lean back too far at the wrong time.
    i mean the whole interaction with men is, after all, imo, a dance….and we have to keep our balance or we just fall over from leaning back too far, too long, wrong time etc.!
    well, appreciated your comments….going to your website now.

  416.  #417janjune on December 21, 2009 at 8:44 pm

    also erika,
    i totally agree with your comment:

    “Men need us to help them man up. ”

    Not: DO IT FOR THEM though!!

    my guy best friend told me once why he kept going with this woman who was really in physically beauty not his equal but was a totally beautiful loving female,
    he said these exact words (i’ll never forget them) about why he couldn’t stay broken up from her:
    “because she helps me be the man i want to be.”

    straight from the horse’s mouth…..:)

    now on to your website!

  417.  #418Robin on December 21, 2009 at 8:46 pm

    Thank you Mary, I love this especially “Does he send you holiday cards? No. If he did, you would not have to be debating this question in your mind!”


    I guess Im feeling confused b/c we’re still seeing each other, but things have been kinda infrequent the last few weeks. He’s still in my life, so Im just not sure where I stand…

    I kinda get the feeling he’s testing me, but I dont know. I remember once he said he’d like to see me get mad b/c Im always so happy and calm…

    But it could also be that I started falling for him and that probably came out loud and clear in my vibe…

    Or it could that he’s got things going on in his life that have NOTHING to do with me…

    AND in ANY of those cases, just standing still and not doing anything and living my life feels like the best option.

    I just cant see how he could back away from me b/c he thinks Im using him or not interested ( like all my family and friends have said)

    B/c it would SEEM (and correct me if Im wrong, please…) that as I become more open to him and fall for him more that he would sense that, in which case, leaning forward would be working AGAINST me rather than FOR me…

    I just feel scared b/c this year, some of the guys I was seeing in the summer complained that I didnt call enough or show enough interest, and they thought I wasnt interested in them, b/c they thought if a girl likes them, she should make some effort too…

    And that has been coming at me, from my family and friends, and it came from these guys this past summer…

    And I REALLY dont want this current guy to think that about me…

    How exactly do we express to a guy thats been good to us that we want to waterwheel back??


    I feel glad that I can turn this around in myself fast though, I went online and edited my profile and posted it on some new sites! and I actually feel cal much calmer now than I did…

  418.  #419janjune on December 21, 2009 at 8:55 pm

    hmmmm PUA, would like to know if pua’s are scared men covering their fear or disappointment with relationships…
    vedddddy inteddestink…

    comment Erika?

    thx, janjune

  419.  #420janjune on December 21, 2009 at 9:12 pm

    wow flipper-
    love how you put that about men verbalizing/not verbalizing, and how we respect their feelings when we ask “what do you think?” rather than trying to force them to speak our language and talk to us about their feelings per se.
    i had to read it twice — slowly the second time, but that is very well thought out.

  420.  #421janjune on December 21, 2009 at 9:15 pm

    ” But asking them to talk about their feelings is like asking a person who’s just become comfortable listening to a foreign language to speak it. No can do. ”

    brilliant summary of flipper’s words!!

  421.  #422Linda on December 21, 2009 at 10:16 pm

    HI all. It is late, past my bedtime. I have been on the phone. For almost 3 hours…. 2 of those hours with Mr Scruitny. He text me earlier but I did not respond, I was at a memorial service for a friend that passed. When I saw that he calling, I was floored…. I often wondered i. He said,… Hi, his tone I have heard so many times before. We talked about all kinds of things. Work my fantastic job change… my testimony about how it all came about. He said… well interesting how doors are held open for us. I knew he was talking about more than my job….A bit into the conversation, I said ” it feels good to talk to you, it feels right somehow… he said YES Linda, yes it does….

    Well the conversation was nice… like two seperated, well aquainted friends getting caught up. but is was deeper than that. He said, “well I am going to say goodnight… and added ” May i call you tomorrow”? I said yes…. he ended with, thank you for talking with me, goodnight.

    We will see what tomorrow brings.

    A man calls or doesnt because he wants to. I guess he wanted to.

    Nite ladies…. Linda

  422.  #423mary on December 21, 2009 at 10:23 pm

    thanks janjune credit to flipper…

    robin, i’m just getting bits and pieces of your story, so i have little glimpses into your situation – surely not enough to recommend any course of action, other than what i can relay from what others have taught or said, or from my own personal experience.

    i’m WISHING that you would find so many exciting things to do, and people to do them with, that this guy is crowded out of your consciousness, so if he does come around, it’s kind of like an afterthought, or just one of those add-on things in your life. Something good, but hey, you’re having fun anyway!

  423.  #424mary on December 21, 2009 at 10:26 pm

    wow LINDA, what a turnaround from a few days ago! it’s so wonderful! and all because you leaned a little tiny bit forward… now i’m confused…

  424.  #425mary on December 21, 2009 at 10:26 pm

    except that possibly moderation is the key. knowing the principles, how to use them, and then when to deviate from them, as every situation is unique.

  425.  #426janjune on December 21, 2009 at 11:19 pm

    now i’m *really* curious!
    why *are* pua’s pua’s?
    have you found a common thread in the men’s personalities/stories/lives?
    or is it —face value— about sex?

  426.  #427janjune on December 21, 2009 at 11:26 pm

    that’s just incredible!
    Mr. Scrutiny…….
    coming around……….
    i have to tell you i thought it was a lost cause.
    but sometimes you just know in your heart it’s not over.
    you sound very happy.
    didn’t you say you were asking for a man for Christmas?:)

  427.  #428Erika Awakening on December 21, 2009 at 11:38 pm

    Hey janjune,

    Thanks for the messages. I’ve found a lot of value and perspective by learning about dating from both the male and female perspectives. Truth is, once I learned how much the guys were struggling with their own insecurities and issues, I realized that all the “is he going to call me?” energy I put into dating three or four years ago was a big waste of time … some of these guys — no actually MANY of these guys — are completely paralyzed, so how would they ever have called me or made the first move? It’s not about me not being feminine enough, it’s just a lot of people struggling out there with their own issues.

    Now that said, I’ve found that speaking for myself personally, the quickest way to get men to man up is to communicate very directly about it. I even do this with my dad now. I can tell you that I could have sat around and been feminine around my dad and a lot of other men in my life FOR YEARS and nothing would have changed.

    So now I talk about it straight up, how important chivalry is to me, how I want to relax and not have to lead, etc. I find this radical honesty is the quickest way to entice men to man up. Sometimes we have some unsettled feelings on the way there, as everyone airs their perspective, but ultimately it tends to work out really well …

    The PUA thing, ah, that’s a long story, so I’ll save it for another post.

    Thanks for checking out my site, I really appreciate it, and would love to know more about you.

    – Erika

  428.  #429janjune on December 21, 2009 at 11:45 pm


    this part of the comment you made to me the other day has been with me ever since i read it.

    “I don’t think we can do much about jealous people. Like the prophets have said, just be a light unto yourself; be an an example, and have fun.”

    thinking about jealousness wasn’t even in my consciousness but the concept has been right there with me since i read that part of your comment.

    I love that!

    that is so right. so thank you for putting that before my stream of consciousness! it’s been “working” on me ever since i read it.

  429.  #430janjune on December 21, 2009 at 11:58 pm

    thanks for your reply.
    so very interesting.
    i love rori’s program–i was wallowing in despair from the loss of a long time love back in august and can’t believe the great shape i’m in emotionally now, even though several other challenging things are going on in my life as well as this breakup.
    i can see where, for me, a blend of leaning back *at just the right time* and what you referred to as radical honesty would be a good fit for my personality.
    i love men!
    and i want them to know it!
    but also understand the “ewwwness” of too close too soon whether you’re a man or a woman.

    i hope you’ll comment here more.

    i love what you said and am going to go back and re-read your comment above. and will be on your website as well. it’s a little well, exotic for my brain to handle, but it looks tasteful and i’m interested in seeing things from others’ points of view.

    my heart really connected with what you said about men being scared too.
    i know they are.
    and i want to factor that in to my interactions with them.

    really appreciate your presence here.


  430.  #431Erika Awakening on December 22, 2009 at 12:02 am

    I noticed a lot of fear energy was triggered in my body reading the longer posts about whether to send a card to a man. And underneath that sadness because I feel such a huge division between men and women in that interpretation of the world.

    I communicate with men all the time. I initiate communication with men whenever I feel guided to do so by intuition. It doesn’t make me one whit less feminine.

    The only problem I see with the card thing is the thinking about it too much. If I sent a card and didn’t make a big deal out of it, he wouldn’t either. It’s the fear energy that pushes men away. It’s the fear energy we need to rid ourselves of.

    And for me at least, the only way to erase fear is by seeing that men are very much like us. A different polarity, perhaps, but fundamentally with the same fears and frustrations that we have. We don’t need to find all kinds of indirect ways to communicate with them. They are open to talking about these things openly with us. They care about our preferences. If we say it’s important to us that they man up, they will listen. Let’s stop with all these mind games and guessing games and start with some really open, daring, brave conversations …

  431.  #432janjune on December 22, 2009 at 12:40 am

    back to the jealousy issue

    if i choose to go out and use rori’s tools (and i do) and they work (and they do), there ARE going to be jealous women.

    i thought about that new group of women i was with and none of my longtime friends act that way. we’re all happy for one another if somebody gets attention from someone who makes them feel good.

    so i am asking myself why am i even trying to figure this out? and analyze it? i didn’t do anything to them.
    they could have joined in the fun instead of standing back throwing dagger looks at me. i would have loved that. that’s what my other friends would have done, just joined in the fun and seen if the guys had any other friends and just keep adding to the group.

    but no, they turned it into some kind of competition crap.

    i think using rori’s tools in mixed groups is very likely something that will bring out the jealousy in insecure women. and by that i mean women who don’t realize their value. because it just isn’t ordinary garden variety flirting.
    it’s SUPER flirting.
    On-Steroids flirting!!
    oh, yeh!!

    this has been very cleansing.
    looking at the jealousy factor.
    i run from looking at sides of people i don’t want to see.
    but i’m ready to begin.

    not just because of this but because of other things in my life as well, i’ve come to the conclusion:

    ” i spend way too much time caring about people who don’t care about me”
    let me repeat that
    ” i spend way too much time caring about people who don’t care about me”
    Got that self? haha! oh, yeh!

    so that’s my next step in this program–
    *caring* for and spending time on the people who SHOW they care for me
    and spending very little of anything on those who show otherwise.

    i think this will be
    No, this *IS*
    my new direction.
    For 2010.


  432.  #433janjune on December 22, 2009 at 12:44 am

    so interesting….what you have said.

    i love that.

  433.  #434janjune on December 22, 2009 at 12:46 am

    it does seem like men, out in the general public, get really put off though when you tell them what you would like. it’s like so what?

    but i think alot of men have been though hard times with women and are exhausted with trying to lease women when they feel it’s impossible.

  434.  #435janjune on December 22, 2009 at 12:49 am

    which then comes back to rori’s program of just leaning back and let THE MAN row the damn boat the way he wants to,…quit telling him every little move to make, just let him do it the way he wants and see if you like it.

    if you don’t, no big deal, just move on. NEXT!

  435.  #436janjune on December 22, 2009 at 12:54 am

    I AM EXCITED TO see how Rori’s and Erika’s points of view mesh.

    i think both coachs care very deeply about men.
    and women.
    and a good connection between the two.

    thank you both for sharing your insights with the world!
    love and blessings to you both and all the goddesses around the world!

  436.  #437Linda on December 22, 2009 at 4:51 am

    Good Morning.

    Janjune and Mary… thanks for your comments.

    Mary… you got it right. I dont feel like I leaned forward, I just decided to respond. I have a male friend that says if you dont respond to them it drives them NUTS. lol Maybe my silence worked on him. But during that week, I had to look hard at my attitudes and beliefs about it all.

    What good does it do me to demand an appology? Yes it is great to receive them, but expecting one well it just does not seem real world to me. He spent a lot of energy last year trying to prove to himself that I was not what he needed or looking for. Each protest was like a deck of cards being played. Each represents issues he had within himself. Those are his things and not my concern. I just am aware of what is going on in him.

    When we talked I did not nor will I ever try to defend my position and reasons for my divorce. I dont feel motivated to try to persuade him into a different stance…. What he believes is what he believes. He did not live my life or walk in my shoes nor I his. Yes there is black and white, and there is imperfection and grace is the bridge to making it all okay and liveable.

    If he calls me, he calls me. If he doesnt, he doesnt. I am not expecting him to want a relationship with me that involves romance. But anything is possible, who would have thought that the small gold braclet that I loved would just be kept safe and returned to me….

    And yes, I did wish for a man under the mistletoe this christmas. Yes he is the man I would pick, inspite of everything… deep in my “knower” things have just been in a state of dormancy, but still very much alive and unfinished. He may only be a friend because he wont be able to provide me with what I want and need… who knows.

    This morning as I drove to work, it was snowing. Beautiful huge flakes of snow gently falling and my headlights illuminating them… and their random beauty was appreciated. I felt peaceful and decided that the display was jcreated just for me.

    Hugs…. Linda

  437.  #438Linda on December 22, 2009 at 4:55 am

    Jan june… I know what I need and want… and yes I agree, let the man row the boat, if we like it enjoy the ride..if not… get out of the boat.

    I feel excited about boat rides. (winks)


  438.  #439Flipper on December 22, 2009 at 5:05 am

    Robin, a few thoughts about giving back. While I agree with your family etc to show that you care, and your own desire to do so, a card and what theese people suggest feels more like the old ‘giving to get’ or showing a man how to row. This guys wants ‘you’, not gadgets or logistics from you. He even said he’d like to see your Anger – that feels to me like he wants more of authentic Robin and is willing to experience her really ‘bad’ stuff to know/feel her better.

    I saw a link with what you wrote about the phone convo and this line from the relationship coach Mary cited “IF you MUST send him a card, no matter what,then promise me this – that you will not include
    an update of your life.” Aha – maybe this is why Robin’s feeling messages about her Day didn’t seem to touch her guy? What felt missing to me were your true feelings about your relationship with him, which you shared with us. Maybe this could’ve looked like “I so enjoy talking with you and I’ve been feeling apprehensive that won’t be able to happen while you’re away” or “I felt sad our convo couldn’t last very long Sunday.” or whatever you can honestly say about what’s making You Feel Off or Down about what’s not happening (without making him wrong, of course). Scary stuff to say, but he’s asking for it straight up: he can feel ‘something’ and wants to know what it is, even it’s as ‘bad’ as Anger. Hearing about your loneliness, or floating, out-of-sorts-ness or apprehensiveness must feel even better to hear than that, – that shows you care and would most likely feel encouraging to him, don’t you think? Calling to show his interest in our feelings is his giving, exposing to him the ones that make us feel vulnerable is our giving back.

    Christmas gifts/cards are so much about social conventions, a simple exchange, not giving in the relationship-sense we need – thinking about them just feels like adding a needless complication in a budding relationship when so often they don’t mean anything personally (except handy excuses to overfunction). Something brought back from a trip, however, obviously requires no reciprocation except receiving it with delight. Perhaps you’ll be surprised?

  439.  #440Erika Awakening on December 22, 2009 at 9:31 am

    Hey janjune,

    Personally it seems like my approach and Rori’s mesh very well. Like Rori’s, my approach is very much about being in our bodies and really aware of our feelings.

    I just got tired of moving from guy to guy to guy, hoping one of them would man up but they didn’t.

    In the PUA community, I realized that our culture has so emasculated men that most men don’t know how to man up. That’s why there’s now an entire community and industry devoted to teaching them. Plus, each woman has different preferences, so if we don’t communicate directly about what we want, there’s going to be a lot of frustration between the sexes with them trying to guess, and mostly guessing wrong.

    I’m finding that the more direct I become in my communication, the closer men move to me. There’s no silent resentment between us because nothing is being unsaid.

    This approach requires a very very high tolerance for continuing to communicate in the midst of intense feelings like grief and anger. The tolerance for those intense feelings has only come with a lot of experience (dating dozens if not hundreds of men) and continually expanding my emotional comfort zone.

    But, the reward is having an abundance of wonderful, sexy men in my life …

  440.  #441tinque on December 22, 2009 at 10:25 am

    JanJune and others in this conversation – Rori is not just about leaning back, meaning leaning back doesn’t just look like a blob sitting there waiting to be “serviced”. I’m exaggerating of course, but it’s to make a point. Leaning back also looks like open heart. It looks like expressing feel GOOD feelings as Linda did, very, very important, for this tells a man what you like, what he’s done right for want of a better expression (kinds sounds puppy go like, and I don’t mean it like that); it’s a green light. Leaning back is about melting if in energy only when you feel warm and melty.
    Leaning back does not exclude radical honesty, but radical honesty in my view does not look like giving direction or orders. It’s being open and truthful about how YOU feel in any given moment. It’s about not hiding.
    Yes there are many men who are afraid of women and rightfully so. Giving a man such as this encouragement to proceed forward does not have to be expressed with words though it can. “It felt good when you…” “This feels so nice..” “It feels good when…” “It would feel good to….”

  441.  #442tinque on December 22, 2009 at 10:28 am

    “hmmmm PUA, would like to know if pua’s are scared men covering their fear or disappointment with relationships…”

    There are many flavors of pua. Many leave a very nasty taste in my mouth, BUT there are some who teach men how to be more comfortable with and more respectful of women.

  442.  #443mary on December 22, 2009 at 10:59 am

    Oh, Linda! Snow just for you! I love it!

  443.  #444mary on December 22, 2009 at 11:03 am

    wow Flipper!

    that was all very caring and brilliant.

  444.  #445mary on December 22, 2009 at 11:07 am

    what, again, is a PUA?

  445.  #446mary on December 22, 2009 at 11:09 am

    Tinque – leaning back is about not hiding! Leaning back is about giving a man a green light to go ahead and love us! Leaning back is a yes before he asks!

    I love it. Thank you for more explanation about this very hot topic. It is confusing.

  446.  #447mary on December 22, 2009 at 11:26 am



    Welcome back, or just Welcome!

    Your posts have me thinking… and I went to your website and something recent that you said really hit me:

    “I go on Rori’s blog and see women riffing on their own feelings, which is great, but I see almost no empathy for men there. On the men’s blogs, I see men becoming more empowered with women, which is great, but I see almost no empathy for women there.

    This will not work. The only way for us to have truly harmonious, rich relationships is to see all sides, not from a logical perspective, but from an emotional one.”

    That really hit home with me.

  447.  #448tinque on December 22, 2009 at 11:38 am

    Mary – PUA = pick up artist

  448.  #449janjune on December 22, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    in order to save time i will just say that my heart resonated with each point you made in your last comment:

    you and rori’s programs meshing
    moving from guy to guy to guy, hoping one of them would man up but they didn’t.
    our culture so emasculating men that most men don’t know how to man up.
    each woman having different (confusing to men)preferences,
    if we don’t communicate directly about what we want,
    there’s going to be a lot of frustration
    with them (and US) trying to guess,
    and mostly guessing wrong. oh yeh, mostly guessing *WRONG*.
    the more direct I become in my communication, the closer men move to me.
    There’s no silent resentment between us because nothing is being unsaid.
    This approach requires a very very high tolerance for continuing to communicate in the midst of intense feelings like grief and anger
    *(YES, i feel this has been the point of breakdown for me in my relationships because of the anxiety conflict causes me).*
    The tolerance for those intense feelings has only come with a lot of experience (dating dozens if not hundreds of men) and *continually expanding my emotional comfort zone*—this is the direction i want to go!! Yes! Yes! yesyesyes!
    But, the reward is having an abundance of wonderful, sexy men in my life …
    all of these statements sound like what i am sensing but for women who have been involved in toxic relationships, it takes time to sort this out, reorganize your life internally to new concepts and have the courage to step out and see how it works in real life.

    i am aware that there ARE men who DO just use and abuse women with no conscience about it. And women who do that as well.

    for me, just me, i don’t know about anybody else, i just want to stay here and listen to the ones who have stepped out ahead and are willing so share what they have experienced.

    then put together my own personal program that works in my life.

    i think that’s what rori is all about.
    and you too Erika.

    blessings to you!

    got to get back to work….. : )

  449.  #450janjune on December 22, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    yes, that sounds “full-circle”. so balanced.
    i love that.
    thank you for sharing…

  450.  #451Robin on December 22, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    Flipper. wow, thank you for your wonderful comment, it was really a new perspective that I had not considered…that he’s asking me to express myself more fully..

    I feel much better about speaking to him when I see him again, and I feel better about the gift giving, yeah I want o give him something, but at this point it would markedly feel like leaning forward and picking up the slack,

    In the meantime, I can work on myself…

    Its just gonna feel weird not talking to him or seeing him, even wishing him Merry Christmas on Friday…

    I know my moms gonna be mad if she asks me if I contacted him and I say no…and I dont want to lie to her either..oh well..

    Im more concerned about how im feeling and about not obsessing about him, even though I miss him..

    B/c if Im obsessing, he can feel that energetically, even if he’s out of town…

  451.  #452"Terry" on December 22, 2009 at 2:03 pm

    Does anyone know which blog/post of Rori’s has the Open Heart Tool?
    I found it once and now can’t find it again.

    I am feeling very prickly, like a cactus, very annoyed at Steve, almost angry. Feeling this in jaws, neck, and core, which are tight and tense.

    I spent almost no time thinking about him over the weekend (concentrated on riding that horse!), and then he texted me yesterday afternoon, not once, but twice, and asked how my weekend was and if I had any plans for the solstice (of course he’s aware of my spiritual path).

    It seemed like he was actually caring again. I didn’t get a chance to reply to the second text until today, as I was out shopping with another man, G, who is just a friend. Steve sent me kind of a flip response about how his weekend was spent diving deep into the commercialism and avarice of the season.
    He gets cynical and flip fairly often, as do I. But it really bothers me that he has so resolutely “friended” me after we were passionately in love for so long & planning to get married once he eventually got free from abusive Wifey (Jane). It changed almost overnight, too.

    I’ve been mostly ignoring him recently. He’s now initiating texting, which he used to almost never do, but there’s NOTHING romantic or flirtatious.
    Hell, 2 /12 weeks ago when he called, he said “I love you” again (we’ve been saying it since last Feb). I could drive myself nuts trying to figure out if Steve still has feelings for me, but I’m trying NOT to go there.
    Rori said that as long as he’s still married to Wifey, he’s unavailable, and she’s right.

    So, what the **** is up with this man? If I really did kill his love for me, why the hell is he still texting me and treating me like good buddy ol’ pal?

    I feel SOOOO dissed and disrespected and insulted by this show of platonic friendship from someone who professed undying love, destiny, and a huge desire to marry me for almost a year. He’s acting like it never happened.

    I am even tempted to send him something mildly flirtatious just to see how he responds (he’s so feminine-energy that he rarely initiated flirtation even when we were together).

    BUT I don’t want him to think that I want him.

    Perversely, I want him to want ME but I’m so mad at him that if he begged me to go out to coffee with him, I might very well say NO or just pretend I didn’t get his text (like he used to do to me).

    Part of me wants to dangle him and play with him like a cat with a mouse. (I’m aware that this is not respectful of him as a person, but at the moment I don’t care). I’ve always looked down on game-playing in relationships as immature and dishonest, so why do I have this sudden urge to play him — as hard as I can?

    Maybe I feel that way because I felt so powerless in the relationship while we were together. Or maybe I’m just angry that he can still push my buttons somehow.

    Part of me is aware that my true power is recognizing myself as a Siren and a goddess and not wasting any more time or energy on Steve.

    And, alas, there’s a tiny part that still loves him because of the relationship we had.

    But I also keep telling myself that I don’t want him back unless he’s divorced from Jane and has done a lot of work on himself, so what’s the problem with him treating me like there’s nothing but friendship between us and never has been?

    It feels disloyal, that’s what. How can I trust him to even be a good friend if he tacitly ignores what we had for so long? How can it just go “poof” overnight?

    I feel triggered. Writing helps. I’m confused by all these feelings.


  452.  #453Rori Raye on December 22, 2009 at 2:36 pm

    Erika – so great to have you back…for me – the issue is not DO we feel compassion for men – but how have we been TRAINED to express that? And most of the time, the answer is in some weird, overfunctioning way. I believe our hormones, our training, and our automatic fight/flight or freeze Trauma Responses way, way outtrump our compassion. Our survival mechanism goes into gear when we feel attracted to a man, and we just go into a kind of paralysis, as you so truly describe, men do also. Someone has to break the logjam, and I believe it has to be us. The question is – how? How do you leap from a raging, shut-down insecurity to a full-blown radical honesty? For me, the answer is baby-steps, Feeling Messages, and STOPPING the overfunctioning behavior so that the underlying feelings and fears that the Trauma Response has been covering over come to the surface. Your EFT is wonderful at helping process and clear these feelings as they surface, and Circular Dating is meant to be a place to practice relating in these new ways – and yes – with radical honesty also (I just call it Telling the Truth) – so that the feelings become uncovered and begin to surface to get healed. For me, a warm smile and open body language and an open-hearted “vibe” is PLENTY to get any man to “man up.” My own marriage got off to it’s start after I left a small birthday gift for him on the steps of his apartment. He never forgot it, he still has that little crystal I gave him right in view all the time. It gave him the courage to keep pursuing me. But the difference here was that I really didn’t care that much about him. As you say – I was not invested, I had no intention – I just got him the crystal and left it there and pretty much forgot about it. If I’d been chasing him in my mind and a bit tense about it all, and thinking about him and left that crystal – I likely would have as well shot myself in the foot. It’s all about what’s going on underneath. Love, Rori

  453.  #454Lisa on December 22, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    Erika Awakeniing,

    I like this very much,

    “If we say it’s important to us that they man up, they will listen. Let’s stop with all these mind games and guessing games and start with some really open, daring, brave conversations …”

    But it is important to remember that sort of honesty only works when the male is capable and in the receiving mode. As well, it is important for us to clear our energies, and make sure we are operating from a very clear posture. Because if we don’t know what we want, the message is garbled.

    And if he is a boy-man, or has a personality disorder, all the clarity in the world from our end will fall on deaf ears. And we mustn’t defeated by that understanding.

    Not everyone is ready.

  454.  #455Lisa on December 22, 2009 at 4:48 pm


    I’m glad my comment about jealousy hit a target. Sometimes communication is like that, and one hears the intent behind the words. I like this from you:

    “i spend way too much time caring about people who don’t care about me”

    This will also be a project for me. I am sure this emanated from childhood issue (trying to get the approval of a remote father), but the easier and happier route is to go with people who actually do care, and from whom we do not have to rustle out the smallest iota of concern.

    The worst feeling is being told by someone you care about, “You impose yourself.” I needed to hear that before I could make a move. In my case, the man told me that this Thanksgiving as I was preparing dinner, and asked, “Why didn’t you leave 6 months ago? A year ago?” And indeed, he had been cheating and abusing all along, and did not deny it when confronted. What was wrong with me!

    Well, I got the message, like a blind person who finally apprehends a vague, gauzy movement. Two weeks later, he invited me to move into a new condo with him. But, I had heard the previous message. When I repeated it back to him, he smiled a sh*t-eating grin and said, “Well, you’re an adult. You can do what you want.”

    In other words, continue to play my game, or not.


  455.  #456Nikita on December 22, 2009 at 4:52 pm


    are you still in NYC? I’d love to meet…tea on me 😉

  456.  #457tinque on December 22, 2009 at 5:21 pm