Don’t Throw Yourself at His Feet

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I started to reply to Kate’s comment, then it triggered me big time and turned into a long piece – so here’s Kate’s comment and my jump-off:

“I am somewhat sad right now and don’t know how to figure this out. I know you and I have a lot of common similarities and maybe you can help sort this out for me. This past weekend I broke up with my boyfriend. I know I still love him or at least I feel we have all of the great things people want in a relationship: Great chemistry, liked being together, thought I was creative and inspirational for him, had fun, never really fought, trust….but he felt there was no true connection.

I had a chance last night to talk to him about all of my “scaffolding” that I use to protect myself from intimacy since I feel so strong on the inside but mush on the inside and he understood. It’s too bad that we only knew each other for about two weeks when he lost his job and all of the job security he had went out the window. It has been a financial struggle for him since and maybe hurt us in the process.

I feel if I walk away and not keep trying to figure out what he wants or what he feels is missing, I will lose him for good. He did say that right now his total focus is finding a better job and getting his 18-year old daughter to graduate from high school in 3 months (she is not a good student).

He said that he doesn’t feel that we ever made it to the next level of truly falling in love. I disagree with him but I guess I don’t really know what he wanted out of me. There were no deal breakers here. I guess I always felt on guard with him never knowing how he truly felt. I told him this weekend after he said that he always thought we were girlfriend/boyfriend, that it would have been nice to know to feel more secure in the relationship without me always feeling on guard.

Tonight since I have nothing to lose at this point, am going to go over to his house and ask him point blank, “if all of the ingredients were in our relationship for a great relationship, what was the element that was missing for you”? I guess I would like to know since I feel that I am the one out of sync and don’t want to screw up any future relationships. Or whether he feels that he will ever change his mind about us.

Any advice would be most appreciated. Kate”

Here’s my answer:

Kate – this is going to be tough to hear – and. please – everyone, back me up here, because Kate, I think you need to hear this from many of us to consider it.

Please, do NOT go over there to ask him anything~

He’s already said it all. He said what you don’t want to hear, and so you don’t want to believe him.

He said he’s not in love with you.

I know you want an explanation, a what, why, how, when…but there IS no explanation to the feeling of being in love for a man.

You and I could say “why” we love a man and “what’s missing” – but a man can’t, really – he either feels it or he doesn’t. And then he tries to explain that to us in a way that won’t hurt us.

This man is way more honest than most – not falling back on “it’s not you, it’s me…” But basically – it ISN’T YOU! It IS HIM!

And no one did anything “wrong.”

He just didn’t fall in love.

Now – that said…It’s not impossible that he will ever feel this for you.

But the way we hold out hope for something like this is what screws us women up more than anything.

The frustration, I know, is intense, and so is the pain – but, truly, most of the time when a relationship doesn’t work out there’s pain if we’ve invested emotionally, and he hasn’t. And that’s what happened here.

You’re invested, and he isn’t.  At least he’s not aware of being invested – and your moving forward and confronting him in any way right now, with the agenda and feelings you have right now, will make him move even further back, and make YOU feel awful.

Your frustration is with yourself, for jumping to the conclusion that he makes relationship and love decisions the same way you do…and that, somehow, if you just understood what you did wrong, everything would be alright. But it’s the SITUATION that’s wrong.

When a man says he doesn’t love us…it’s way past the point where we could have caught on to that, but chose not to see the signals.

And it doesn’t matter WHY. There is no why. Yes, he’s in a sticky situation in his personal life with his job and child. Yes, there are factors. But – none of that matters to you. What matters is what you do now.

And the last thing on earth you want to do is go over there and – no matter HOW you express it to him, it will seem to him like this: You are begging, pleading, crawling on your hands and knees (even if you’re angry or even-tempered and reasonable it will look like this to him), humiliating yourself to him, trying to get him to “tell you” what you need to do and failed to do to get his love.

It will repel him. Wouldn’t that repel YOU? Yes, of course it would.

And the chances that it will make YOU feel powerless and embarrassed and undignified and awful are, to me, not worth the gamble that you might get something off your chest and reel relieved.

The absolute best thing you can do is AGREE with him! And I’m not asking you to fake this – I’m asking you to look this in the eye, look at the truth of this, and say – Yes, you’re so right, if you don’t feel this way, even though I feel a lot for you, it can’t be right, right now. And if you should change your mind…I will see how I feel then…

And that’s the truth.

Now – unless he calls you to talk to you, or you run into him somewhere, there’s no way you’re going to be able to share even THIS.

You’re going to be stuck with your own feelings and no closure in sight. This – no matter how it feels – is a good thing.

This is the start of your new way of doing things, where you no longer invest in a man emotionally until you have the whole shooting match, the whole enchilada, the whole banana, the ring, the wedding date – whatever it is you want that looks like Happy Ever After to you. Until then – he’s just a date. Like all the other men you date. And now – you have to turn around from him and go DO THIS! Circular Date. Now.

Agree with him, and then smile to the mirror, smile to him if you see him, smile to YOU, give yourself a humongous hug, slather love on you, and start Circular Dating. Talk to men. Flirt with men. Flirt with women. Flirt with young men and old men. Cry. Curl up on the sofa. Lay on the floor. Watch TV and eat a carton of yogurt, please, not ice cream. Take your vitamins and probiotics. Stop eating sugar and bread. Buy some pretty, trendy, soft-colored, inexpensive clothes and do your nails in red. Adventure-seek. Start fresh.

This is how you will attract Mr. “Next” – and Mr. “Right” – and if this man really is all that and Mr. Right to boot – he’ll show up again.

If you follow your instinct to go throw yourself at his feet right now – you’ll push him away and push yourself backwards.

Imagine this is a game board (because it’s supposed to be fun when you’re following your good feelings) and that your goal is to move forward. Your Happy Ever After is up ahead, the road to it may be straight or twisty – and your ONLY job is to move forward.

Even if you slide backward, or fall off the path – your job is to keep getting back up on your horse and keep moving.

We are stepping through old patterns and old traps and old traumas continually. Give up expecting the ride to be smooth. Hey – at Disneyland, the most fun rides are the most bumpy and unexpected. Same with life. If you knew what was up ahead every moment, you’d be bored.

Again – do not go throw yourself on his mercy and try to get his opinion about YOU – you can work that out here with us, with a coach, with your friends, and with every single man you meet starting this minute!

You do NOT need to work this out with HIM.

I know this is an unusual concept, but it’s one I’m very, very firm about. Since men show up to trigger us and help us work out our stuff, and either love us or not and make us feel good or don’t – there is always another man up for the job.

You want to hire the good ones. The ones who make you feel good.

Yes, because – well, it feels good, AND – if you want to get down to the bottom of this whole thing…the good ones make you feel good because they help you move forward! They help you become your best self. They make you feel good about YOU when you’re with them – not “bad” about you. And that’s what’s happening here. You’re feeling “bad” about yourself in his presence now.  And that does not serve you.

You are about to step into the belief that allowing this man to tell you his “truth” about what’s going on for him will somehow help you – and it won’t – because he’s already dropped the ball. He’s already stopped being your free therapist. He’s stopped helping you, assisting you and walking along your path with you.

He’s veering in another direction, and if you follow him, you will fall off your path.

Stay on your path, Kate. Move AWAY from him. Sweetly to yourself. Painfully, with challenge and determination – step away.

Go find your path again. Find your life line and live it. We’re all here to support you. We’ve all had these dark moments, and now’s your time to find the life you want – not the one you wish had been different.

Love to you – and I look forward to hearing how you’re doing.



  1.  #1Tina on March 17, 2010 at 11:40 pm

    Kate, I back up what Rori says, ALL OF IT! now get out there and start circular dating:)

  2.  #2gina on March 18, 2010 at 12:09 am

    Sounds good…except that i keep wanting to pursue the men who seem so difficult. like the super hott guy who asked me to watch a movie and cuddle. and I knew that I COULD say “when?” and it coulda happened, but instead I said “sounds super…” and he never did make it happen…

    LADIES: did i do the right thing??? I see that this particular guy needs a chick to make it happen – he’s covered in women all the time. I have resisted out of pride…but is there good practical REASON to resist?? I feel like I would just have to pursue him a little to make it happen.

    what happen??? a relationship?? I dunno… blaaaa…I went out tonight, and I didn’t even see ONE guy who I’d want to even kiss!!

  3.  #3heartbeat on March 18, 2010 at 2:42 am

    Kate – I’m right behind you too! Rori’s dead right. I’ve done my nails, hair and had a wardrobe clearout, bought new clothes and booked a holiday (in a bamboo hut in a pine forest by a beach on a greek island). I’m doing up my home and enjoying my job without the stress of ‘wondering’, and although I’m not online or thinking about dates, I’m relaxed and getting very positive male attention, which feels really good. And I’m GENUINELY enjoying life so much I don’t have time to feel as if anything is missing. Sure, I feel a little lonely sometimes, or a little sad, and sometimes I drift into thoughts and doubts, but with the tools here it passes very quickly. Keep moving forward on your horse, Kate! xx

  4.  #4heartbeat on March 18, 2010 at 2:46 am

    Oh yes, and I write in my journal a LOT and attend to my inner life and healing. And things happen in my outer life to support me, unexpectedly. Like someone will call and we’ll have a surprising conversation, or a pink rose will suddenly bloom in winter. xx

  5.  #5Beth on March 18, 2010 at 3:47 am

    Oh Kate, I feel for you! It’s so easy to read your situation and think “why would she want to go over to him and pour her heart out like that?” and then look at my situation and not SEE that I want to do the same thing! I know how you are feeling that you have nothing to lose, but you have EVERYTHING to gain by not going over there!

    Listen to Rori, she is RIGHT and that’s why I come to this forum time and again, and listen to my Toxic Men program Time and Again!! It does start to sink in, and when you make changes a little bit at a time and start to love yourself YOU really DO start to feel powerful!

    I am struggling right now with what Rori said as “You’re going to be stuck with your own feelings and no closure in sight. This – no matter how it feels – is a good thing.” I SO wanted to call him last night and reach out to him, but I didn’t!! I was feeling emotional and sad and I let myself sink into those feelings and cried and got mad. It scared me actually how much hatred I felt towards him last night!

    I hugged myself and started making a list of things I want to do this spring. I planned my new walking route and imagined all the people I would see and speak to while I walk and all the beautiful flowers and trees I will enjoy, and how great that is going to feel!

    Just know you are not alone!

  6.  #6Anne on March 18, 2010 at 5:41 am


    Yes, Rori is right. When I read your letter, what I noticed was that you kept the focus on what you lack, what is missing in you that causes him not to love you deeply.

    You have handed over the keys to him, and he sensed that, and so you became less desirable to him. You have made him the prize. The woman should always be the prize. Rori is right about this.

    Start to focus on ways to make yourself happy, if only in small steps at first. All of us here have walked in your shoes, one way or another, here!

  7.  #7Jennifer on March 18, 2010 at 6:05 am

    hey girls…I totally resonate with this one too. Geeze is there ANYTHING that Rori writes that I DONT resonate with?
    Am I in the right place or what?
    I have called B (as embarassing as it is to admit) crying telling him that if he wanted me he had to come get me and would he please come back for me soon?
    Geeze ..I really IS a gomer.
    But in the intrests of cutting myself some slack…B would tell me he was going to do something and then not do it. So he couldn’t even be that honest with me.
    Maybe he wanted to feel like he was being a good guy. I don’t know.
    I know it feels like more dishonesty and a weak ethical framework to me when people say one thing and do another.
    Right now I’m focusing on watching the BEHAVIOUR and not listening so much to the words.
    And I’m going to reike works tonight.
    Yeah for rieke works.

  8.  #8S. on March 18, 2010 at 8:44 am

    I have to second (or eighth!) the prescription here. I can relate, too, because I broke up about two weeks ago with my boyfriend of 3 1/2 years. We’ve broken up (or ‘taken a break’ or ‘gotten some space’) repeatedly over the time we’ve been together.

    Sometimes he says (and behaves as if) he’s in love with me, but he doesn’t sustain that. Each time we’ve broke it off, he’s come back with tales of how wonderful I am and how much he loves me and how good I am for him, and I would love hearing it and go back into the relationship, but after a month or two or three, he’d sort of wander off emotionally again.

    It took me a long time to realize and act on the fact that HE wasn’t good for ME. We seemed, as a couple, to be focused so much on what he needed, what he wanted. As women (beginning when we’re baby girls), we’re trained to put other people first, and I did that, to my detriment. But the fact is, he’s not what I need, what I want, what I deserve. I deserve a partner, not a child who only knows how to take.

    We’d been exchanging e-mails, long and analytical, about the relationship, when I finally had enough. I wrote: “Okay. You’re right. You can come pick up your things and drop my keys on Saturday; I won’t be here.” Predictably, he’s now writing me notes about how much he misses me and thinks about me every day. Of course he misses me. I’m great and I was wonderful to him. But that’s not enough to make a relationship. I’m done with that.

    I hope, Kate, that you can look toward your friends and family and other support for the love and encouragement you need right now. Sadly, I don’t think you will get what you want from your guy.

  9.  #9Natural Goddess on March 18, 2010 at 9:39 am

    Thank you Rori, I really needed to read this today.

    I feel so sad, Last night I saw my musician guy play for St Patty’s day…
    I was just open, practicing the tools, making eye contact on the street, in the restaurant. I went with a friend and we pampered ourselves at an oxygen bar.

    When I saw him playing, there was this girl, she was totally vibing him like a groupie, just SOO into him and his music, and I put some pieces together, with some facebook notes, and I think he’s casually dating her. I honestly felt like she was going to jump him right there on the street, and he was TOTALLY milking that up!

    This is the SECOND time he’s something like this.
    Last year we dated and he said he was in love,
    and then he needed “space” because he was confused. He then dated someone else. And two weeks ago he came back, apologized, said and the “right things,” and once again after connecting on a deeper emotional level with me, he has chosen to date someone more superficial, younger (or just have a fling). Now honestly, if he was truly in love with someone else, I would feel sad but somehow it feels worse that he’s just going for shallowness. I sense he chooses women to feed his ego, it’s all light and more physical/sexual, and when he get’s tired of that and wants the depth he comes back to me!!!

    That just seems so unfair.

    I know in your last post, you said things will change for me when I don’t care if he calls or doesn’t…
    But I just am not like that with men, I can get over it, but when I feel deeply for someone how am I not supposed to care?

    What do I do when he contacts me?
    I’m sure he will, he’ll probably ask me to “hang out.”

  10.  #10Rachel on March 18, 2010 at 9:47 am

    Dear Kate,

    As hard as it will be for you to let this go and “not know” his answer, PLEASE listen to everyone here. I have been in your shoes and I have attempted “one last time” to get answers, or explain, or understand, or …

    And it has NEVER worked! I have ended up more broken hearted and humiliated on top of it!

    Use this blog to vent as much as you need. We will all listen and love you.

    Rori said something once that has always stuck with me… men can and will say anything, but when it all boils down, a man will always SHOW you what he wants. This man has shown you that his heart is not yours right now

    I know that you’ve given your heart to him and that’s why this hurts so much. I know it’s hard, but now is the time to start reclaiming your heart for YOU. I had to learn the hard way that my heart is the most precious thing I possess and no man is worthy of it until he has earned the privilege by showing me over and over and over that he is crazy about me and will honor, love, and cherish me forever.

    Be gentle with yourself. You will find your footing. But the first way that you can LOVE YOURSELF is to trust the wisdom here and do NOT go and talk to him!!!

    Incidentally, my guy has come back to me. We are having a good time, but I’m still not convinced that he feels a heart connection. I think the reason is that he is emotionally incapable of that depth of relationship. So I’m giving him the chance to try again… (notice: I’M giving HIM the chance because I now know that I am a prize!) and we’ll see if he can indeed row this boat!


  11.  #11Rori Raye on March 18, 2010 at 10:32 am

    Natural Goddess – Evan Mark Katz wrote an article about this – and I’m going to post some excerpts from it – where he says clearly that the only thing that matters about a man is whether or not he loves you unconditionally. And I would add – PERMANENTLY. A guy who’s fluttering around is just a boy toy, or someone to date, or someone to appreciate as a “muse” or to treat like you would a movie star you’ve got a crush on – just like in high school. You just don’t serve yourself by considering a man like that as anything but PRACTICE – and if you care too much – that’s a sign that you’ve got a toxic thing going and you’re WANTING to HURT YOURSELF. So – go with what feels good… Love, Rori

  12.  #12Rori Raye on March 18, 2010 at 10:43 am

    Brava Beth! Love, Rori

  13.  #13Rori Raye on March 18, 2010 at 10:44 am

    heartbeat – thank you for sharing this – you rock! (I think I’m just going to up and down the comments letting you all know how wonderful you are and how much I appreciate your wise words.) Love, Rori

  14.  #14Rori Raye on March 18, 2010 at 10:45 am

    Thank you, Tina! Love, Rori

  15.  #15Neytiri on March 18, 2010 at 11:53 am

    Kate, please listen to Rori, she is totally right. There’s just too much effort in going over there to get closure and see what you’re doing ‘wrong’

    First, if a man isnt ready and isnt ready FOR YOU, then you dont want him. It took a very nice guy I was seeing, who just dropped off the face of the earth to teach me that, but this is the 1st, Top, and Most Important core need I have. It seems now to go without saying, to be understood that, yeah, he has to be ready, but I actually had to adopt this as my top core need before I started to feel better about this guy not contacting me. He treated me like gold when we were together, but then it all just stopped.

    As I read this I felt greatful to God that I didnt speak my words to him. I had a speech prepared, and I feel fairly certain the time will come when I give the speech. I saw him this weekend at a gathering, and I was making my way to him to say hello, and someone stopped me to talk, and while I was talking to this lady, he left. I grabbed my phone and was going to text him a short ‘missed talking to you today at the gathering.’, when I realized I lost all my contacts when my previous phone broke two weeks prior. And since he hasnt been calling, I dont have his number anymore. I actually CANT contact him. Now is just not the time for that.

    Now’s not the time, and going to him just wont work. He has to come to me, and Kate, he has to come to you too.

    And its also ok to leave things messy. Its part of life, and you can handle it being chaotic-embrace it!-I remember when my dad died-and he died violently-that everything changed, it was awful and painful, and I didnt get to say goodbye, and so many loose ends that needed to be tied were just left hanging-but it was the start of a transformation. God used that to bring me into my true calling and purpose. It was a time of preparation for me, and it began at that moment.

    This is the start of a new chapter in your life, Kate, and just moving forward is the best thing you can do for yourself, along with all the wonderful things Rori suggested to feel better about yourself. Now is the time to take GREAT care of yourself.

  16.  #16Jeannette on March 18, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    You know you guys are totally right. Either a man is with us or he is not. I need to stop obsessing over my long distance relationship that ended some time ago. It’s crazy, he sent me a break up letter in November and I STILL have not told him to just stay a way. He sends me e-mails, calls me if he doesn’t get an e-mail in response and just strings me a long as ‘a friend now.’ I have to come to accept that. I am JUST a friend that he does not want to lose touch with AND nothing more!

  17.  #17Linda on March 18, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    Hi everyone. Its me… I feel glad to read this post and the strength of you all here. I dont feel so strong today but I am holding my own.

    I have had the same man in and out of my life for over a year. It has overall been a bad year. Moments of great and grand but mostly bad and pain.

    This post is timely and. I have decided not to respond to his last email. This all just feels bad.

    Rachel, I resonate with you I am the prize, I have even said that outloud to him as he was pushing me away.

    S…. I have lived what you have described. I really dont understand why a man would keep coming back if he truly does not find you physically attractive. Something just does not add up there.
    I feel like I have been trying to solve a rubics cube (something I never got mastered) but I know it can be done becasue others have done it.

    Walking away 3 weeks ago now was the right thing to do. Sure he will miss me, but he wont give his heart and I am done investing. Forget throwing yourself at his feet.. been there done that. It does not help, it makes it worse…. I am not going to lay down in the street any more and let the bus run over me.


  18.  #18Jeannette on March 18, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Gosh Linda, I have had the bus run me over for the past 2 1/2 years. My esteem has been shot to hell. I thought just because he called me everyday meant he was firmly grounded in our relationship. Then…..he walked, said, “I can’t do it anymore, the long distance.” I said I would move there and be with him (because he can’t afford to lose his 30 year job yet.) But, he didn’t make a move on that one…so my esteem has been kicked so hard to the curb, it’s going to take me awhile to come back around. He did call me Tuesday night but just to see how I am doing. It hurts and I really need to tell him to stop calling because he made a choice. It just keeps me hanging on and for what?

  19.  #19Daria on March 18, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    I feel triggered by this answer that has shown up from some men:

    me: i feel like im being used to entertain u when ur bored

    him: well if thats how u feel thats not my prob. i cant control how you feel at all…i talk to you bc im interested

    this doesnt feel good… is there something im missing…?

  20.  #20Daria on March 18, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    wait theres more:

    but i really dont like negative energy in my life…and i feel like thats what you keep pushing off on me…im deployed and the last thing i need is that…so im sorry that u feel that way but that has nothing to do with me at all…if u feel that way its bc of your own doing
    i will delete you…sorry that you felt that u were my entertainment or whatever…all i wanted to do is get to know u…but i dont like negative energy sorry…positive things and positive ppl bring a positive life…it was nice meeting you
    Last message received at 03/18/2010 1:36 PM
    sorry…im a nice guy but i like smiles and happy thoughts in my life
    Last message received at 03/18/2010 1:39 PM

    i feel drained and weird… any insights?

    i now applied my experiment: early cut off: yeah this doesn’t feel good i dont want to talk

  21.  #21heartbeat on March 18, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    Thank you, Rori 🙂

    And thank you to all the sirens who have shared their stories here – I feel a lot of support and encouragement going on – I know it’s meant for Kate but it’s help and confirmation for me too. I feel a lot of relief and a few tears right now, because sometimes I do get anxious like so many of you have expressed, and doubt myself etc.


  22.  #22Jeannette on March 18, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    Listen girls, I have been in several significant relationships and I don’t know how I am going to be able to keep dating. I keep throwing myself back out there and nothing comes together. I am very, very down here. It feels like you just can’t take ANY man seriously. I am S-P-E-N-T!!

  23.  #23heartbeat on March 18, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    Daria – not sure I can be of much help, but I wonder if there’s more to this bit “i feel like im being used to entertain u when ur bored “?

    If you replace ‘feel like’ with ‘think’ it still makes sense, right? Only I suspect you feel a lot of things – frustrated (because he’s cute)? bored (with messaging)? Or is it that you’re down on yourself?

    I don’t know the back story, but I’m reading that they are wanting to get to know you. Are you feeling fragile?


  24.  #24heartbeat on March 18, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    Jeanette – maybe give yourself the gift of time? – feeling spent means you get to allow yourself to collapse, rest, kick, scream and be an all-round siren. xx

  25.  #25heartbeat on March 18, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    Jeanette I was in your shoes 2-3 weeks ago and just let myself feel CRAZY – I wrote about it a few posts back – and the support I got felt like a big warm blanket carrying me through (no-one tried to ‘fix’ me, I was totally accepted as I was).

    Everything turned around within days – I feel excited and optimistic again. My attention isn’t on men (it feels too hard!) but I notice things changing… how the men I run into pay attention with warm eyes for example, how I feel taken care of somehow…

    I guess what I’m doing is dating myself and practising, that is all. No effort, but paying attention to how I feel.

    I still have that warm blanket, it’s big enough for you too xx

  26.  #26heartbeat on March 18, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    This really spoke to me, from my weekly horoscope:

    “Monday’s New Moon in your 8th House is offering you the opportunity to let go of a subtle but powerful pattern of self-denial. This pattern, which seems to operate primarily in how you think about yourself in relation to others, tricks you into thinking you’re being nice when in fact you’re acting as an enabler — encouraging others to stay addicted to their ego-programs rather taking the risks required to grow into something greater. Pay attention this week to the moments in which you catch yourself playing small for someone else. Realize you’re not doing it for this person at all, you’re doing it because somewhere along the line you learned it wasn’t safe to be who you are. The transformation into being fully who you came here to be starts with this awareness.”

    (from D K Brainard’s site,

  27.  #27S. on March 18, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    It sounds like Linda and I are on a similar course (except that you, Linda, wised up quite a bit sooner). The thing is, the guy I was with is certainly attracted to me physically. That has never really been in doubt. But sex can only act as a bond for so long, and it’s not a strong enough bond if a deeper emotional connection is not there, or is alternately there and gone.

    What I finally came to accept—and it was a hard, hard thing to do—is that, for whatever reason, he does not feel that I’m the one really special person in the world he wants to be with. I can’t argue with that, though I think I tried, over the years. It’s not a rational, reasonable thing, it just is. And despite us coming together again and again, and things being really great for a while, it would come up again eventually. I can’t be better, or different, or fix it. I did learn things from the relationship; I need to be content with that. Next time, I will not make the same mistake.

  28.  #28Turtle girl on March 18, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    Wow Heartbeat-that’s just profound!!! I gave discovered that astrologically that saturn is in Virgo right now. My venus is in Virgo (love life), which translate to me being in a “cycle of saturn” (Saturn-the great restrctor and teacher)and no way is the man thing gonna work for me. Pratice-yes, get one-no.
    It won’t let up until around October 2010 when saturn goes into libra and gives me a break.

    Ironically I had a vision one evening while in the bathtub months ago. I saw a white movie screen and I had asked my higher self when am I going to meet the guy. The screen filled in a date-November 2010. It was just way too freaky. We shall see come November. That gives me about 8 more months to heal and practice on men. *sigh* Life is so strange sometimes.

  29.  #29Turtle girl on March 18, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    Awesome post-
    I needed a reminder of how true this is.
    The more we chase, the worse it gets. I am so not into men right now. Concentrating on my art and upcoming shows and my spring garden-planting my peas and tomatoes and tilling my raised beds. I am dating, but not really giving a crap about it.

    I have a motorcycle ride date tomorrow. This man calls me “mystery woman” and it drives him crazy because I only tell him my artist name, which is not my real name. I don’t use my real name for my art, it’s a “stage name” like actors have. Ha ha ha…he loves it. It is our third date. He pays, he drives, I lean back. drives him nuts. He told me I make him nervous-in a good way—there it is ladies.

  30.  #30Rori Raye on March 18, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    Jeannette, So sorry for his reaction to your willingness to move…and now you’ll know not to let this happen again. There’s a big difference between continuing a “relationship” that’s “easy” and “convenient” – especially long-distance…I mean, there’s so little responsibility there – and taking a relationship to a higher level – which has to happen or the thing will just fade out…there are a lot of levels to move through – and some may not be dramatic – but where distance is the issue – fixing that would seem to have to come early – or not at all. Love, Rori

  31.  #31heartbeat on March 18, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    Turtle Girl – I feel excited about your vision – I believe we have more senses than we know! saturn is a tough teacher, I had him in my sign a while back, it was a heavy year and I remember feeling slowed down too.

    I stopped reading my horoscopes three years ago because I was getting too dependent on them – I wanted to feel self-reliant – but a friend put me on to DK and I like his messages – omg another man with messages!!

    Happy to join you in healing and practicing <3

  32.  #32heartbeat on March 18, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Turtle Girl – fabulous! I feel pretty much the same way – just focusing on my own thing. xx

  33.  #33Turtle girl on March 18, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    Yeah Heartbeat!
    I have been following all your posts. I love the Greece trip, your clothes, everything, so cool.

    I know what you mean-I don’t read my horoscopes to the extent they they run my life. that is just crazy. I feel we have choices, but they are fascinating and I do feel they influence trends so to speak. When one studies physics, math and the secrets of the universe,
    it doesn’t seem that far out that planetary influences do exist. There are many mysteries we do not understand but that does not mean they aren’t there. I mean we can’t see gravity, but no one denies it’s existence, right?

    Just like the vibe that men can feel from our thoughts. They can’t see it, but it is real. I know that kind of thing really does work. Freaky stuff.

  34.  #34heartbeat on March 18, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    Hey THANK YOU Turtle Girl! – it feels good to know you’re following my posts, as I am yours. I love all this freaky stuff. I’ve experienced it too, and it feels real. I like that you are an artist – I am too, though I changed direction 15 years ago (counselling, then art therapy). Recently I got a strong feeling for painting/design again, and within days I got three requests for artwork!

    I love throwing myself into the chaos/process. I feel DEEPLY relieved letting go of anticipation. I agree with you about men picking up our vibe – and that scares me too. So I feel very grateful to be healing my esteem and anxious vibe. I’m constantly challenged, or rather confronted, by examples – bits of advice floating my way, ‘shoulds’ and ‘oughts’ demonstrated by e.g. my dad who is a real people-pleaser, he hates confrontation, gives me advice on how I can ‘help’ my ex. And that just feels really really uncomfortable – but I feel privileged – yes privileged – to *see* this and not get drawn in.

    I had a bit of a shaky time today – I feel weird talking to girlfriends about man stuff – I’m in a different place. I found myself stopping short and clarifying. I feel supported though. I talked to my close friend, who is always helping people, about leaning back. She’s exhausted and getting angry.


  35.  #35heartbeat on March 18, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    “I love throwing myself into the chaos/process. I feel DEEPLY relieved letting go of anticipation.” applies just as much to my art and writing – as to emotional process.

  36.  #36heartbeat on March 18, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    Much more creative.

    Time for bed… I have my first windsurf of the year tomorrow and I’m terrified! xx

  37.  #37Jeannette on March 18, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    Thanks Rori and everyone for your kind words…what a day…my car broke down and so did my washing machine….now listen to this! The fuel gage is screwed up in my car(can’t tell if I am out of gas) and the drum in my washer fell ( means it was on over load)… there it is. I am spent just like I said earlier. These two things together are telling me I am maxed out!! Out of gas and on overload. Don’t have it in me to EVEN think about men tonight!!!

  38.  #38Jennifer F on March 18, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    Wow… this post is perfect. I have been silent for awhile.. just reading everyone’s posts and licking my wounds so to speak. My man up and just disappeared on me about month and a half ago. We worked together, and he got fired, which I was afraid of, and he immediately went out of town to visit family. He’s not been back home since. I was worried about him and sadly chased him for awhile with text messages periodically…trying to “lean back” but I wasn’t getting much of a response, which concerned me. Finally, I got a phone call 2 weeks ago, and he told me he has decided to move to a bigger city where some of his family lives and basically he’s not coming home. I was shocked, and then I wasn’t. I figure he is running… I made the big mistake of telling him I missed him, which he gave a halting “I miss you too” back. I suddenly burst out in laughter, because I realized this guy is SO into himself right now, that he can’t miss anyone…especially me. A little later on in the conversation, he reinstated that he really did miss me and he did love me, and as soon as he got back into town the next week to pack his stuff, he would call me. That was 2 weeks ago and nothing… no text, no call,…nothing. I have made absoutley no contact with him and it’s been so hard not too. I want to reach out to him, ask him why he’s abandoned me (which is how I feel)… but I don’t. This post has confirmed that I just have to keep doing what I am doing and move on…. without closure. Maybe someday he will look me up, and maybe someday he won’t.
    I got a dog…that has helped fill in the lonliness…his name is Stewie and I love him. I bought a couple of books to keep me occupied and my head out of reality for awhile till I can deal better. Been talking to a few guys, but I feel so gun shy…so betrayed and left behind.
    I am really emotional about everything too. For instance, when we first started dating, we had just got back from a wedding so I was all dressed up in a pretty dress and high heels. I was in the kitchen and accidentally dropped a bottle and of course the thing shattered in a million pieces of sharp glass and liquid went every where. From the other room, I hear him yell “Don’t move!” and he comes in and picks up all the glass, all the mess, and wouldn’t let me do anything because he didn’t want me to get cut or hurt. I felt so treasured! I am quite the clutz sometimes, and I am embarrassed to say that, the same situtation repeated it’s self a couple times later on in our relationship, and he always “came to my rescue.” ANYWAY, yesterday morning I accidentally dropped a another bottle, and there it sat all smashed on my kitchen floor staring up at me. And then I lost it, I started to cry and couldn’t stop for at least 10 minutes. All the realization of “I am alone again” hit me at once, that it’s “JUST ME” again reared it’s ugly head.
    My ego is shattered as well. He use to tell me how wonderful I was, how amazing I was, that he didn’t deserve me, he couldn’t let a day go by without talking to me…admittily so, before he lost his job, he had started to pull away quite a bit. We went from hanging out 24/7 to just once a week, and he was wanting to spend more time with his friends. I leaned back, said go for it, and waited for him to lean in… he didn’t…in fact he leaned himself into another city. OUCH!
    I am glad to read this post and know that I am doing the right thing by not contacting him, by not asking him what happened to us…by simply picking up my broken pieces of shattered heart from the kitchen floor, and going on with my life.
    Thanks for listening.

  39.  #39Earthdancer on March 18, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    Many hugs to all you beautiful women out there who are truly supporting each other…I’m so used to women not liking me because of how I look or act…this is so beautiful to see and feel xoxoxox

    Kate: one thing that helped me was to write everything I was feeling/needed/wanted to happen with the guy I loved… and then BURN it…and as it burns, try to open your heart and let all those feelings rise up and leave with the smoke…This helped me find closure…I also planted a “bleeding heart” plant at one of our favorite places (dramatic, I know :)) and when I started obsessing, I just thought of that plant and left all my thoughts and feelings there…you can also give all your feelings over to the Angels, the Universe, the Force, God, Allah, or whatever has meaning to you…really LET IT ALL GO…surrender…

    Natural Goddess: one of the things that has helped me the most (because I’ve always been a one man woman myself) is Rori’s Circular Dating. I have had more interest from men and more dates in the last month than I have had in my WHOLE LIFE and I’m over 40… it is really helping me to practice my Tools, and I know with every man I am positioning myself for Mr. Right to find me…WE WILL NO LONGER GIVE OUR HEARTS TO A MAN UNLESS HE TRULY WANTS US MORE THAN ANYTHING IN THIS WORLD…it truly works…hugs & love to all of you xxoxoxoxoxo

  40.  #40Earthdancer on March 18, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    P.S. Natural Goddess: This is from an old post of Rori’s on what to say if this guy calls/texts/sees you:

    “Stop talking to him. You don’t need another friend, especially not a MALE friend, and that’s all he wants. Make that crystal clear — “Hi, it feels great to be in contact again, and yet I know that I still have feelings, so if what you’re looking for here is friendship, I just don’t wish to pursue friendships with men right now, so I wish you well and will not be staying in contact.””

  41.  #41Earthdancer on March 18, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    Hugs to you, Jennifer F…you are doing the right thing and you are a noble Goddess (even through your pain)…xoxo

  42.  #42Tina on March 18, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    Today was supposed to be my “lay low” day 🙂 I went for a quick trip to the store and I ran into “warm and fuzzy” and “1 1/2” . Warm and fuzzy said hi to me and I said hi uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I forgot his name lol, he laughed at my pause. I didnt feel like chatting with him and kept on walking, I noticed 1 1/2 yr mans truck ugh! I have to drive by his house everyday so yeah, as I was driving by his house , I thanked him (in my head) I cant remember for what, but my sad feeling had come again then I realized I didnt want to be his “friend” but I thanked him anyway, I did feel better , I kept on “truckin” to the store and bang his truck was there, ugh! I went to the section that sold soveniers I felt afraid to see him again grrrrrrrrrrrr. anyway he came and went , we didnt have a face to face meet, I wasnt ready for it. I didnt want it to happen.

  43.  #43Turtle Girl on March 18, 2010 at 7:12 pm

    Wow-heartbeat-windsurfing! Fantastic-you go girl!
    Let us know how it went for you!

    I planted five flats of tomatoes today! Thats about 180 plants. Whoooooooo Hooooooooo!!!!! If I have extras left over after cooking them and eating them I can throw them at the oncoming cars of nasty toxic men!!!!
    LOL!!!!!!! I am such a brat goddess!!!!!

  44.  #44Turtle Girl on March 18, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    NEW PROBLEM…….What to do?

    New guy I had one date with calls me:

    He says: Uh, are you seeing anyone?

    Me: Yes, I date, but, what exactly do you mean and why are you asking?

    He says: Well, uh you know.

    Me: No, I don’t.

    He: Well, is it worth my time to call you?

    Me: Do you want to call me?

    He: Yes

    Me: Well then, call. I am not running off to go get married next week, and if I was deeply involved with anyone, then I would not have had breakfast with you, now would I?

    He: Well, ok, good point.

    Whew-I dodged THAT bullet- this time.

    So-Did I say the right thing? these kind of things totally throw me off, I HAVE NO BOYFRIEND SPEECH
    made up yet, and that scares me, cause I can just see it coming shortly, one of these guys is gonna want to have me for his girlfriend, shit it always happens that way. Every freaking time. They want me for a freaking girlfirned while they decide what to do with me, just like Rori says. Fuck.And in the past I always said yes.
    I am flailing as to how to handle it. I don’t have Roris cd’s because I cant afford them right now.

  45.  #45Tina on March 18, 2010 at 7:48 pm

    Turtle girl, the only thing I can see ( I dont have Rori’s cds either) is there is no FEELING message coming from your convo.

  46.  #46Tina on March 18, 2010 at 7:49 pm

    I probibly would have said the same thing though 🙂

  47.  #47Tina on March 18, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    I ‘dodged” 1 1/2 year man at the store. I would feel much better if he found another planet to exist on but no so yeah, I’m feeling kinda off balance too. I cant keep ducking and dodging him. It’s a small store lol, I cant hide behind the canned veggies or the t-shirts forever. I wonder if he noticed 🙂 hahaha lmao!

  48.  #48Turtle Girl on March 18, 2010 at 8:11 pm

    Oh Thanks Tina-good point. Hmmmmmmm.

  49.  #49Linda on March 18, 2010 at 8:41 pm

    Turtle GIrl… can I have some tomatoes? I like them so and I have a toxic man I could toss a few at, but I want to wait till it is all stanky and mushy and then lob them. Yeahhh!

    S. I dont think I wised up near as soon as I should have but thank you. I finally did. I guess my optomistic, he will step up all the way.. attitude just died. It was like it was slowly strangled and today I woke up from a nap wishing things were different but I am glad to be out of the stress I was under with him. This man was just like you described yours was and it not what I need, want, deserve. I dont mind giving if the investment is mutual but he was a child that was taking and we only did what he wanted most the time. Sure he will miss me cause I am great to him, but you said it well, even with his emotional words… that is just not enough anymore. He lied sooo much and never made me exclusive in his life as he said he was. Maybe for one week this last go around.

    It was quite a gift to actually see him as he really is. When he left his e-mail signed in on my computer I could see the real him. He was a deceitful man on many levels. I feel blessed to have gotten that providential opportunity.

    After a time like this, I wonder if I will ever get this right? I feel a bit frightened that I wont. My confidence is shot right now.

    Heartbeat… I wish I could say that I have gotten a good place like you have so quickly. That is inspirational. Thank you for sharing.

    Jeanette…. I feel just like you do right now. Feeling like I might never be sucessful at this relationship stuff.

    I saw a feeling pattern today. I have been looking. I used to call and think of myself as the “queen of almost”… I have changed my self talk but I think it is stuck in my subconscious. Almost made cheerleader, almost made honor society, almost got to be on the worship team. Almost played that piano recital piece perfectly… No matter how hard I would try I did not quite make it. This last relationship was… “we click on sooo many levels, I love many things about you… you are everything I need but not what I want… again almost. It makes me cry….

    I am very sucessful in so many ways, accomplished so much well…. OM GOSH, enough…… I need a breakthru! HELP!


  50.  #50Linda on March 18, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    It is so late. I shouldnt eat any… but I need chocolate.



  51.  #51Linda on March 18, 2010 at 8:49 pm


    I think Rori should have titled this… Dont Throw Yourself Under the Bus. That is what it feels like when you do what Kate was gonna do. Look at me Kate, I got the tire marks to prove it. It doesnt feel good.

  52.  #52mackenzie on March 18, 2010 at 8:54 pm

    Rori, just read your original response to Kate. LOVED IT. It exactly fits my situation too. I was trying all the wrong things to get my relationship to work and they all failed. I just can’t believe how you’ve figured all this out. I’m using your tools and my bf that I have broken up with 6 times because he wasnt’ giving me all of what I wanted because HE is generally leaning back is now calling me, emailing me, sending me things, etc. Tonight he THANKED me for calling him back when in the past he never seemed to want to talk on the phone much. He was definitely leaning back before because I was leaning forward. Girls, this all really, really works!! I definitely feel the power shift big time now that I am focusing on other things. It’s the only way they can know that they want you – when they miss you and can see clearly how fabulous you are. When you are chasing them under the guise of relationship building they just want to run. Thank goodness I have Rori’s additional advice not to be exclusive until you have all of what you want or I would have just gone back to him as a girlfriend AGAIN. The longer this goes on, the more determined I am to get what I want vs getting HIM. I want to kiss you Rori for preventing the future pain I would have hS by sticking with him and then getting to the eventual breakup further down the road. This way he either steps up and I feel really secure and happy in the relationship or one of my CD guys eventually will and in the meantime I just focus on having a fun time with them all. There is a lot of comfort and safety net in having several men paying attention to you rather than hanging on to one guy that just isn’t doing the job and you keep hoping it will change.

  53.  #53Rori Raye on March 18, 2010 at 10:51 pm

    Brava Mackenzie! And thank you so much for the comment…Love, Rori

  54.  #54Rori Raye on March 18, 2010 at 10:57 pm

    Got a post coming up about being a “Rock Star” – think it will help you, Tina. Love, Rori

  55.  #55Rori Raye on March 18, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    Turtle Girl – I should write a huge post off from your conversation – but…okay – I’ve already written too much – into a new post it goes – (preview – it’s going to be harsh, but I’m going to rewrite your whole conversation…)…love Rori

  56.  #56Triza on March 19, 2010 at 2:57 am

    I feel so encouraged just reading everyone’s comments…truly liberating..
    I love this post and i read a similar post the first time i stumbled on this blog.
    I can resonate with this story and i love how S explained it in her comment.
    For me the feeling of rejection was too much to bear and i felt that my mind was not coming up with the right solution and for a long time i kept thinking and thinking of a way out…..
    I felt resentful and impatient for not knowing why the guy did not have the feelings i wanted him to feel.
    I wanted to fix me in order for him to love me….
    All this really opened up and made me realize that i was angry and not happy with myself….i was always carrying myself around with a feeling that there was something wrong with me.I have this beautiful self with so much to offer but i was evaluating myself based on how someone else loved/not loved me.
    I feel the difference between basing the love i feel for myself on the guy and on me…
    there is less tension and anxiety and i feel less pulled to try and please anyone.I feel more cormfortable being myself and i am really getting to know myself and accepting both my good and bad parts.It hasn’t been easy but i feel blessed to have stumbled on this blog when i did and it really helped me discover where i needed to change.
    been circular dating for a while now and its so much fun when guyz pop up some i like some i don’t like and slowly i am learning to let go of expectations and allowing each moment to be as it is….Men are more attracted to me now and i have guyz pursuing me,some want a real relationship some just want to have fun…its nice to actually notice the difference…
    I feel less angry when i meet a guy and things don’t work out.there is less dissapointment because i know that with or without him happiness still flows through me and i am complete…

  57.  #57Daria on March 19, 2010 at 3:36 am

    A man is pursuing me that i had a huge crush on.

    I feel so thrilled and afraid. I feel afriad he will stop pursuing me like last time. I feel afraid i will make him go away by being so excited and insecure because i dig him dig him dig him.

    I feel numb and shocked that he is now pursuing me. i feel like hold my breath so it doesnt break.

    I feel excited.

    ohh i feel excited.

    i feel shaky and tense.

    He is purusing me. he is pursuing me. he si pursuing me.

    i Told him i ws goin gon a date tonite. and he didnt like it. hes pursuing me. he wants to get married and have a familly to… omg i feel like im gonna orgasm from my solar plexus or what… i feel lik my head is gonna burst…

    umm i feel afraid that he may be too judgemental and bossy but god i love bossy men well directive take charge ones

    i know i can totally do this, and i feel afraid that im so INTO him

    i know i could smoothly navigate standing up for myslef

    ad i feel all blanked out cuz im buzzing when im talking to him while my heart is holding shushed

    i practice not paying attention to and i feel like im numbing out

    Tonite i told him i had to go! he told me take care

    i feel so thrilled i ended the conversation

    he must be feeling sooo attracted to me

    i am fefeeling soooo attractedto him. i want to tell him im obsessively attracted to him and want to make love to him in very sensually naturally feel good secret ways in my fantasiez

    i want to tell him ive been jocking him in my mind forever and a day

    but instead hes tellng me that HES been jocking me in his mind! Really? didn’t seem like it before… but i guess the long lean back has him only remembering that he wants me



    he said he wants me so bad and he was mad i dindt choose to have sex this other time when i had a bf



    i dotn have sex so fast

    i want him

    i wnt him


    i want him

    hes here

    i want to receive from him

    his a frequent participant in my hunderd men exercise


    me want his lips his voice his skinny body and his hair and omgosh me want him

    lol reading above about his skinny body

    well he helped me carry a tv upstairs with his leg messed up and TWO men his size were having trouble with it taking it down

    i want him


    i want to feel goood and i want to receive

    i feel afraid i cant i CANT open up enought and he will go away

    i want him want him want him

    i believe he will want me now that he wants me no matter what im feeling

    even insecure and afraid

    oh and even tho in the past he left now that hes come he will want me no matter what im feeling

    i want him

    i feel shakynesssss

    i have discussions where im teaching him to please me in my imgaination


    this is why i started the post

    i want to get marrie d and i feel im not ready until i learn to have mind shattering earth shaking orgasms

    i feel afraid ill be trapped in a marriage and not get to experience that

    i havent found in the past that sex gets better staying with a man, mostly it plateaus at a level similar to the first time

    and i want to learn to have these orgasms for me, so i can have them in anyones lap.

    so that even if he has erection problems or something i know how to pelase myself and can inspire him to get it up

    so there you go angels

    this i want and i want to learn it in a feel good way

    thank u

    i feel excited to share this with him

    i have a male friend who said he can teach any woman to have squirting orgasms and i want to and i feel uncomfortable having him teach me… so i want to learn this and feel comfortable

    thank u.

    thank u. thank u.

    i feel excited how this came clear to me. mmm… yey

  58.  #58Triza on March 19, 2010 at 5:04 am

    …..And it doesn’t matter WHY. There is no why. Yes, he’s in a sticky situation in his personal life with his job and child. Yes, there are factors. But – none of that matters to you. What matters is what you do now…….
    This didn’t make sense to me in the beginning.I always felt that there had to be a logical reason for everything.I noticed recently that i do have a very active mind that wants to solve everything.even what my man is thinking and doing and not doing…..
    and so i go on and on in my head evaluating and re thinking everything all over again and what i find amusing is that each time i come up with a different story and a different explanation….It feels almost like with my mind all i do is tie more and more knots until i cannot tie anything anymore…
    The heart on the other hand does not ask why…it loves and hurts and embraces everything just the way it is…This has been my biggest challenge..switching from thinking through to feeling through….
    I do love my mind and its very helpful when needed but life feels much more deeper than what my mind can understand.The heart can accomodate much more that the mind can begin to understand.

  59.  #59Lori on March 19, 2010 at 5:52 am

    wow, weird. For the first time in months, my CD dates have come to a screeching halt all week and weekend. I was worried I was sending out a “taken” vibe after having sex with Mr. Fabulous, but the interesting thing is that this week issues came up with both of my PARENTS. I realized that alot of my issues with men come from growing up with an emotionally unavailable father and an emotionally manipulative and controlling mother. No wonder I fear intimacy! My experience with it is that it’s either been non existent or like I’m being manipulated and controlled!

    I feel proud of myself for standing up to both of them and wading through the icky feelings I had. At one point I had the same feeling of walking on eggshells around my mom that I always have had with men and I took a deep breath and confronted her instead. I still feel very very uncomfortable, but sooooo much better that I’m working through this.

    It just feels so surreal, like the men I’ve been seeing knew they needed to step aside for this week so I could work through relationship issues with my parents. has anyone else experienced anything like this? Up until now, I’ve focused on just my past relationships with men I’ve been involved with. Now it seems that ALL of my relationships are connected in similar ways. The difference being only that I’ve been sexually involved with men and not the rest. Odd that this comes up right after the first time I have sex outside of a committed relationship…..

    I feel confused. Before this week, I felt like I was almost done doing the work I needed to do. But now it feels like a door has opened and there’s another HUGE room to walk through to get where I’m going!

  60.  #60Linda on March 19, 2010 at 6:28 am

    Trinza… I made this transition from thinking to feeling. It is fuller and helps me stay on my bridge. I still am a problem solver. There is a reason for everything, but we dont necessarily need to know it. Actually, time reveals things eventually so one way or another truth always comes to light. Tie and untie, reknot… yep that is a great description. I feel I have been trying to solve a rubics cube puzzle.

    Feeling first and then thinking has been revolutionizing for me BUT I still struggle with it too. Sometimes it just feels like so much work but I want to change so that I am not working so hard and live life in fullness.


  61.  #61C. on March 19, 2010 at 10:00 am

    I am new to this site. But I, being over 40, am NOT new to this kind of heartbreaking feeling….and it this time it’s almost paralyzing me.

    My BF and I have been dating exclusively for about 6 months and have made plans for our future. Our normal routine (because he lives about an hour from me) is a “Good Morning Beautiful” text from him and then he calls me after he gets off of work. We see each other on Wed. and on every weekend.

    Here recently I went out to dinner with a girlfriend on a Tues. (It was actually the first time I had done something like that, since we started dating.) We actually spoke that day around lunch time to discuss a Dr. appt that he had gone to and everything between us was fine/normal as we ended the call. After work I went home to get ready for my dinner and he had not called (as he usually does) after he got off work and before I went to dinner. I thought that maybe he had to work later than usual b/c he had been out for part of the day to go to the Dr. and that maybe he was still hurting and went straight to bed…I continued on with my night and had a great time with an old friend and didn’t get home till after midnight. The next morning (Wed.) my usual “Good Morning Beautiful” text did not arrive. I finally texted him at 2pm to say that I was really looking forward to seeing him that night and that I loved him. At 5:30pm he texted me back saying “Wow, so your phone does work”. I immediately tried calling to find out what he was upset about and he wouldn’t answer his phone. He then texted me saying “Nothing late night. Nothing till after lunch today. I didnt want to bother you while you were out. Not even a goodnight . Nothing. This relationship is lopsided. I am not ready nor do I want to talk about it right now. I am going to meet a friend for drinks. I need time with my friends. I’m at a break point.” (Apparently, he is mad b/c I didn’t text Goodnight or let him know that I got home safely – which I didn’t know that he expected) I then replied “ok, have a good night, i love you” and he replied “I love you too”. Thurs. morning I texted again “good morning. i sincerely hope you had a good night. i love you” He replied saying “it went ok. i hope you had a good night also. i love you too” but now it’s Fri. and I haven’t heard from him!! He did not call me last night after he got off of work nor did I get a “Good Morning” text this morning. I have tried and successfully refrained from contacting him any further since my last text; however, by not doing so…. these physical pains that I am currently enduring are about to make me lose my mind AND my willpower…I mean, I have been holding my breath and having MAJOR anxiety pains since his first message. My head is hurting, my skin feels like it’s on fire, I can’t catch my breath and my heart literally feels like it’s BREAKING!

    I now know what he was mad about but I don’t feel that I did anything wrong purposefully….I have always felt free and comfortable texting or calling him whenever I wanted…without feeling like we were playing any kind of games, but now I don’t know….how can we get past this if he won’t talk to me?? Please help! I’m about to break down and reach out to him again!

  62.  #62Triza on March 19, 2010 at 10:29 am

    Yes Linda.You said it just right….I feel exactly that..always wanting to solve the problems and not being patient enough to allow time to reveal the truth.I have read so much about feelings and how to stay in tune with my feelings and being my aunthetic self.The truth about how much i have been stuck in my mind is actually revealing itself now.

  63.  #63Daria on March 19, 2010 at 10:58 am

    Lori – boy it feels like that doesn’t it? I feel inspired by you standing up to your mom. I DEFINITELY feel intense anxiiousness and fear around my parents Much of the time. It feels bad and I’m taking babysteps to being authentica and sharing my feelings.

  64.  #64S. on March 19, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    I’m with you, Triza & Linda. I’m a thinking person, and that’s a good thing; I love that about myself, and it helps me in many parts of my life, particularly work. BUT, I’ve learned to balance that with feeling, and to recognize when to turn my brain down and let my gut or heart speak louder.

    There were red flags in my relationship from the beginning, things that made me feel badly and that I knew weren’t right, but I often allowed my head to take over and rationalize his behavior. In retrospect, I made excuses for him. I was helped along by him, of course, because he would periodically have these “breakthroughs,” and we’d be really good together. But he’d get distant or critical, and I would feel like I had to reform in some way. Ultimately, I began to wonder if I wasn’t holding on for so long because I didn’t want to be wrong about this; I wanted to prove to him that I was what he wanted, even when I wasn’t completely sure that he was what I wanted.

  65.  #65Rori Raye on March 19, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    C. – Welcome – and I don’t think he’s mad about the phone call. I think there’s something else going on. He might have met another woman and doesn’t know what to do about it…something’s happening that doesn’t have anything to do with you. What DOES have to do with you is how you’re handling this. You must handle this anxiety and focus on him – just keep doing what you’re doing and hanging back, and then we’ll talk about how to talk truthfully with him about what’s going on…Love, Rori

  66.  #66Jeannette on March 19, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    Rori, I just feel my ex long distance slipping through my fingers. I use to call him and try to communicate. It seems like it kept us closer. Now I lean back and he is just drifting a way. I have a date tonight, I really do not want to go out on it. BUT, I guess I will. Have been out with him twice already, he is sweet but seems sort of needy and wanting to move things along. I just miss my ex when I am out with men!

  67.  #67Linda on March 19, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    S… I had red flags. Too many but. I was circular dating all last year, he was one of them. I can say that I did not worry to much about them because I was not serious with him. As things were on and off with him I leaned back, sometimes leaned forward but was practicing too. He would want to be with me and then ignore me. Tell me I did not look the part for him. So I let it go, kept dating. He would come back around and hook me and then we would be together, take a trip etc.. and then poof he would say.. it is just not all there for me.

    I can tell you that it was all there in me anyway, but not for me with him. He wrote a 13 item list in his last e-mail to me about all the things he loves and relishes about me and us. But… I can say that I dont have a list for him like that. It is about me now.

    I still have this problem though. His words are stuck in my head. I feel defeated in my appearance, I dont feel pretty. I did, men tell me I am beautiful but I feel skeptical. I am hurting inside about this. He was looking thru a magazine once and said, this is pretty, I didn’t like it. Then he said, well something like that would hide your tummy!…I was offended, I should have gotten up and left the room. I dont know why I did not. I just dont have a flat stomach and never have.

    I am self conscious about my hair, and shape and demeanor. My gosh the jeans I have on today are an 8. I used to wear a 16. I feel one way and think another about myself. I have a battle inside me right now. I feel undesirable, flawed, yet when I look at others my age… I would compair pretty high on the scale…. He and I were out one night and two guys came up and hit on me. It happens at work too… I just feel like it is all fake. My head is stuck in a bad place and has been for a while. I cant seem to let it go. Why in the world did I let this guy mess with my head and heart. I feel soooo stupid.

    You know I often wished I looked like Sandra Bullock. I thought if I looked like her, I would be so happy, men would be falling all over themselves to be with me. I guess that is not true. I feel bad for her. What is wrong with men? What in the world do we value now? I feel bad for wishing that for me… I am convicted to get my head and heart straight.


  68.  #68Linda on March 19, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    Jeanette… I have had the same problem. Go out, be yourself, dont worry about what the date might want. stay in the moment. I know it is HARD.. been there and done it too much. Be kind to yourself and enjoy the moment like I said.

    Hugs to you… Linda

  69.  #69C. on March 19, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Hi Rori,

    Thanks SO much for your response. I haven’t tried to contact him again, yet. But I did work on a speech to text him. Please let me know what you think. I used some of your examples…

    “I feel that I hurt or disappointed you by not saying Goodnight. It wasn’t intentional, but I am sorry. Right now, I feel lost and confused about this silence. Is there something I need to know? I feel concerned that we’re not on the same page, here. I don’t know how to make our relationship close again…a little less lopsided…Is there something we can do that would help? Because, I don’t think I can do it by myself. What do you think? “

  70.  #70Jeannette on March 19, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    Linda, your words are so comforting. Of course, I can stay in the moment and make the best of the situation. And too, it’s a free meal ticket! All kidding aside, he is a sweet man just trying too hard which is a turn off. I guess the message here is, this is what my ex felt like when I was too into him!! Gosh, I wish I could turn back the hands of time now!

  71.  #71Daria on March 19, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    hey I DO look like sandra bullock. not thirlled about that though. but people come up to me all the time and say hey, u know u look like sandra bullock. when i was young they asked if i was her sister.

  72.  #72Lori on March 19, 2010 at 3:43 pm


    I can promise you that you are fabulous in your own right and that looking like Sandra Bullock is no key to happiness. (perhaps having her bank account might be tho lol)

    I have a girlfriend who is a former Miss Universe and she makes Sandra Bullock look average. If she were on this site right now, she would seem no different than the rest of us. She has the same relationship issues with men that we all do and possibly more as she gets alot of creepy stalker type guys harassing her as well as men who basically just want to see if they can get a former Miss Universe in bed and have no other interest in her at all. She sits home dateless on most nights as she rarely ever gets asked out by normal, available men who are interested in her for herself.

    Statistically, averagely attractive women have the most success dating. Women on either extreme of attractiveness unfortunately tend to have more problems in the dating arena.

    I’ve said this before, but I have another girlfriend who is quite a bit overweight, but she OWNS her weight and is confident in her sex appeal. She has men falling all over her. Confidence is key. LOVE your flaws and everything that makes you who you are. THAT’S what makes men attracted to us!

  73.  #73Lori on March 19, 2010 at 3:46 pm


    The first guy I dated after my ex and I broke up was trying too hard and it was such a turn off to me. He did all of the over functioning I had done with my ex and I realized how icky it feels to the person on the receiving end of that. If I knew then what I know now, my ex and I might be together today…

    It’s true, all of our CD guys are either messengers or mirrors….

  74.  #74Lori on March 19, 2010 at 3:49 pm


    I get told I look like Kim Cattrall all of the time and have for YEARS, even though I’m younger than she is and my hair is darker. I feel flattered because I think she’s beautiful, but it is a pain in the butt when they think I’m gonna just jump into bed with every guy I see after five minutes like her character Samantha in “Sex and the City”.

  75.  #75Tina on March 19, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    So what do you all think about Sandra Bullock’s breakup? I was standing in the drugstore line up and saw the news, she was on the front cover sitting on her husbands lap with her oscar. She of course looked smashing but he looked kinda dazed and confused to me. I dont feel bad for her, I have hope she will get through this mess. I always liked her as an actress.

  76.  #76S. on March 19, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    It sounds like Linda and I have been dating the same man. They are remarkably alike in their behavior; it’s almost frightening. I was dating several guys when I met P., but had planned to get off the dating site in the fall no matter what (was a returning student in grad school at the time, and knew I wouldn’t have the time online dating took up). I kept seeing P., but wasn’t too serious about him—he was a poor match for me in several ways, but there was something about him that really attracted me. Also, he was recently out of a relationship that he was NOT over; perhaps the challenge was a turn-on for me, in part. Over time, though, we became closer.

    The story about your guy picking out a piece of clothing to hide your stomach also hits home. In the weeks before we broke up, I sat on my boyfriend’s lap and he said that I should go to India so I could lose weight (he’d recently been there and had lost 5 pounds while there). I mean, what the hell? I’m 5’3″ and 114 pounds. Sure, I could be in better shape, but I am in no way fat.

    But men (and even bad friends) can play with your head that way. I began to realize how such comments and other behaviors were taking a toll on me. The complaints weren’t even about me, truly, they were about him pushing me away.

    Right now I’m taking some time to regroup. I’m taking care of myself and doing things to make myself feel better. I’m not seeking men out right now, but I’m enjoying the attention of a few who’ve shown up. It’s a process, and I have faith that eventually I’ll feel better.

    Your words and stories, Linda, show that you’re a smart, insightful, caring person. It’s easy to feel worn down by hurtful words of someone you care(d) about, but they’re not any true reflection of who you are. I’m guessing that it will take a little time to shake his words out of your head and to get over the feelings of defeat, but maybe the company of dear friends will be good for you right now. I’ve been really comforted by close friends who are there to remind me of what a good person I am and of how much I have to offer. They always thought P. was full of himself and didn’t know what a good thing he had in me; but then again, they’re my friends! A good friend of mine told me recently that she thinks my next relationship will be my last; she thought P. was good practice. I do know that the next time I will make sure that I am central to him before I invest too much.

  77.  #77Lori on March 19, 2010 at 5:43 pm


    Sometimes I feel like all of us on here dated the same man. So many of the stories feel so familiar….

  78.  #78Turtle Girl on March 19, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    Thanks for your input. I am looking forward to your post of my “re-written conversation” with a CD man.
    Thanks again. xxxooo

  79.  #79S. on March 19, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    Lori, I know what you mean. I’m not sure whether to be comforted by the we’re-all-in-this-together spirit of the women or discouraged by the bad behavior of so many men. Both, I guess. But I still believe that there are good men out there. I know some of them, even.

  80.  #80Tina on March 19, 2010 at 7:01 pm

    Thank you, Rori!

  81.  #81Tina on March 19, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    We drove pass each other today (1 1/ I dont have a problem with that it’s the face to face eventual meet up I cant handle right now. I can just kinda ignore him driving 🙂 I lost 4 lbs at the gym whoohoooo. Today I was doing my side planks and I felt like “giving up” but I told myself, I love my feelings of giving up! I love my feelings of giving up! this helps a lot , when I just feel like giving up. I’m losing my little muffin top 🙂

  82.  #82Lori on March 19, 2010 at 7:06 pm


    There ARE some good ones out there. I have a very dear male friend who is engaged to a wonderful woman. I feel priviledged to be able to get the “inside scoop” on men from him. He tells me that even a good man will (unknowingly mostly) walk all over a woman IF SHE LETS HIM. He says it’s just the nature of most men, good and bad, to take as much and whatever the woman will give and do as little as they HAVE TO TO KEEP HER. However, if the woman stops doing all of the work and the man WANTS TO KEEP HER, he WILL step up and do the work! (if he doesn’t care if he keeps her or not, he probably will just let her drift away)

    He said most men he knows are basically good guys, but they just tend to get lazy and complacent when the woman is willing to do all of the work FOR him. He says he blames us WOMEN as a whole for spoiling men and putting up with their bad behavior to the point that if a man has several relationships in a row with women who allow his bad behavior and do all of the work for him, he can actually start to feel ENTITLED and BECOME a bad guy even if he wasn’t one to begin with!!!

    Fortunately, WE WOMEN have the power to change this!

    I feel like the whole point of using Rori’s programs and tools is first to figure out WHICH man we have or tend to attract-a bad, toxic man (or unavailable ones in my case) or a basically good guy who has just gotten lazy and complacent. If we have the former, we can get OUT before we get hurt even more. If we have a good-but-lazy guy, we can use the tools to shift the energy back to the man giving and us receiving which is basically shifting us back into our female energy and him back into his male energy which makes both us AND them feel fundamentally more “right”. And THAT’S the road to “Happy Ever After”!

    We have to take responsibility for allowing ourselves to be taken advantage of. In the words of Eleanor Roosevelt: “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.” I feel like that also means that no one can take advantage of us if we don’t allow them to.

    I have to remind myself of this now and then when I feel victimized. And when I read someone’s post and SWEAR she’s dating one of my exes to the point that I want to ask her what his name is!!!!

  83.  #83Linda on March 19, 2010 at 7:47 pm

    You all are great. I just got home from a hair appointment. THen I went to eat and sat at the bar alone. It was ok but by the time I got in the car I just sat and cried. I never believed that S was really this shallow, but I guess he is. It is just the “almost thing” in my life really sucks. I want it gone. I feel 80 years old tonight. But.. My hair looks fabu;ous though.

    I know I should have put a stop to this a long time ago. I accept responsibility for allowing this in my life. It just happens in stages and it is like the frog in the pot syndrome. I will not lie, his words cut and I am not strong right now.

    I do wish I had some friends…. when I divorced, he got all the friends. I am lonein’ it out here. YOu all are my support group. It would be unbearable if it werent for this community. I am sleepy, it had been a long week and the time change and my work schedule (up at 4:30 m-f) has taken its toll on me.

    Nite… thanks for your support and words of understanding and sharing with me. It helps lots.


  84.  #84Lori on March 19, 2010 at 7:57 pm


    You get up tomorrow and ROCK that fabulous hair ALL DAY LONG!!!!!

  85.  #85Triza on March 19, 2010 at 10:24 pm


    Sending you big hugs!…….and i am with Lori on having a fantastic day… rock!

  86.  #86Triza on March 19, 2010 at 10:34 pm

    What you said really touched me and i feel that the last guy i had is doing the same exact thing.He’s not a bad guy but i did allow him to walk all over me.
    I felt triggered reading your post because i feel bad and angry at myself for allowing it to happen…
    I feel its so difficult for me to admit that i wasn’t taking good care of myself and this guy just reflected that…
    He texted me the other day to check up on me and see how i was doing.I replied and said i am good and life is okay…..and then there was silence once again.
    I really liked him yes…is still attracted to him yes…i still feel he’s a great guy yes….but just not available for me…and he knows it…and i am really starting to feel okay with this…so what else is out there…

  87.  #87Tina on March 20, 2010 at 4:53 am

    Something clicked for me, when I read something Heartbeat wrote. I cant remember where or when , but it was a recent post, she made a comment about “being happy” I looked at the dishes in the sink and thought oh wow maybe thats my problem, today I’m not happy, right now I’m not happy, I didnt go in to why I was not happy , whats the friggin point, all I know was I was not happy. I ‘thought” I would be happy if I cleaned up the dishes. I didnt even know that I was unhappy, this “FEELING” I had. I just knew that somehow I THOUGHT I would FEEL different if I did the dishes. I cant become instantly happy and put on a smiley face and go do the dishes. I just realized this MOOD I was in was UNHAPPY, I feel UNHAPPY. not sad, just UNHAPPY. I wanted to release my unhappy mood by doing the dishes, which doesnt really solve my problem, I thought the dishes were MAKING me unhappy 🙂 . I did feel accomplished lol after I did the dishes (took a lot of effort) but in the long run of the day, I didnt FEEL happy. For me when I am resisting a FEELING like an unidentified crappy feeling, this is what I want to do, is DO SOMETHING. What does this have to do with throwing yourself at his feet, um I dunno. IVe had very few happy moments in my life, so no wonder I am having trouble identifying this feeling or any feelings for that matter. Thank you sad feelings 🙂 I love you sad feeling 🙂 I dont know why I love you sad feelin but I do. My sad feeling came up when I passed 1 1/2 yr man’s house.

  88.  #88Turtle Girl on March 20, 2010 at 9:13 am


    I really want to cheer you for your ability to feel whatever is coming up. Ya know it is like this for me and it sound like for a lot of the women on this forum. We are all in shock to some extent. Grieving the losses and being confused, angry, ok one day, total crappy the next. It is so hard. It has been over three months for me and I still think of him almost every day. Not as often as it was, but I still feel like I am in shock over what happened with ex toxic man.

    Much to my chagrin, tonight I have a party to go to and it is for some mutual friends and HE IS GOING TO BE THERE. I fretted for two weeks about whether I should go or not. I do not want to see him. Luckily it is a big place so I might be ok. But I had written to him about 2 weeks ago telling him I wanted to write to him. No response. Not a big surprise, he was always really piss poor at communication, never hardly ever responded to anything, so why would i think now he has changed? So I gave away my power in a small way again by writing to him and now he is gonna be in the same building. I feel sick to my stomach and apprehensive.

    I have been circular dating, but so what. I feel like they all are crap today. Yesterday’s date after we got home from riding, as we were taking off all our gear looked at me and said “Well I have to go to the bank” —-In other words, you are being dismissed. No invitation in, or offer of coffee or anything that would indicate manners. I said”Gee John, don’t worry-I am leaving!” He then sort of shrugged his shoulders and immediately walked over and gave me a big hug and kiss, almost sort of like he realized it was a shitty thing to say and was sort of placating me. It felt awful. I just got in the car and went home. I felt dismissed. What a creep.

  89.  #89Lori on March 20, 2010 at 9:19 am

    Turtle Girl,

    Is there any possiblity of NOT going to this party and letting him and everyone else wonder where you are? If you felt good about it, it would be great to go and be fabulous, but since you are feeling bad about it, why put yourself through it? This is about doing what feels good to YOU. Why not go do something else that YOU will feel good about?

  90.  #90Turtle Girl on March 20, 2010 at 10:24 am

    Thanks Lori-
    I know what you mean, but everyone knows about our break up and how bad I feel, and I am designated driver for my two best friends who drink and don’t want to drive home. So I am really conflicted, and I already told the person who invited I would be there, but warned them if it gets weird, I am so outta there.
    And in a way, I don’t want to not come because he would probably think I did not show up because of him. And then laugh, and feel superior, and all “the man” I already tried to call him to talk about it and left him a message which he did not respond to at all. You know like why give the fucker the satisfaction of me sitting at home all night-he is gonna be there having a great time.
    It’s like a freaking divorce, the whole mutual friends, ain’t it awkward thing. I fucking hate it.

  91.  #91heartbeat on March 20, 2010 at 11:20 am

    Turtle Girl – I SO feel for you. If it were me, I’d see myself as having the following choices (staying at home feeling awful would not even make it to the list):

    1. Stay home, do something nurturing (no chocolate or addictive stuff)

    2. Drop my friends off and go to my favourite noodle bar where I feel comfortable alone and can watch the world go by listening to ethereal japanese music

    3. Drive to a hill or the sea and HOWL it all out. Get big inside, crumple, whatever

    4. Stay at home and HOWL it all out consciously, read, do my cards, write in my journal

    5. Go to the party feeling triggered big time, feel myself shake etc. Love my shakiness, love a cushion, a door, whatever. Feel the love of my friends. Look men in the eye, practice the tools, slide my thoughts AWAY from him

    Personally, if it were me I wouldn’t go, not at the moment anyway. I’d feel unready, and as it is I avoid (conscious choice) driving near where he lives. Until I feel the triggering won’t set me back. Until I choose to drive that way (it’s on a main route, I’m not spying on him).

    Hugs from me! xx

  92.  #92heartbeat on March 20, 2010 at 11:21 am

    Oh yeah – 2 or 3 might lead me to 5! xx

  93.  #93tinque on March 20, 2010 at 11:47 am

    And Turtle Girl – Let him think whatever he thinks. You have no control over it anyway. YOU know the truth, and that’s ALL that matters. I LOVE heartbeat’s suggestions. Pick one, anyone, or think of another.

  94.  #94Earthdancer on March 20, 2010 at 11:51 am

    OWWW, I feel triggered, hurt, and a heavy feeling in my heart…ouch! I just got this text from a CD guy…he’d asked me out again & I said it didn’t feel good to me because it felt his attention had been elsewhere during our date, but thank you…why do I feel hurt by a man who means NOTHING to me? Any insights? Help! Thanks 🙂

    “I agree with the message you got from some other man. You want to be chased. It appears that you want a man to shower you with attention while in return you act totally disinterested and cold as ice. That may work with some guy out there but not one with any self esteem.
    Best of luck to you! “

  95.  #95heartbeat on March 20, 2010 at 11:54 am

    Yay Tinque! xxxx

  96.  #96Daria on March 20, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Earthdancer – I get stuff like that everynow and then.

    Men get triggered. This is an attack. It doesn’t feel good. He will eaither try to call you again (because his self esteem IS low or else he wouldn’t attack you)… OR sometimes I practice writing

    ohh… that felt bad… I don’t want to be attacked

    THe message for me has consistently been that this is about HIM. And that I do not feel good being attacked.

    EARTHDANCER – HE WAS ASKING YOU OUT!! surely he musta liked you right? this man is “trippin” its about HIM and in my experience it can happen pretty often

    I had a guy say i was disgusting and weird and crazy for expecting him to drive to me and call me, and that im trying to use people, and that he wont.

    I didnt respond,

    and he messaged me EVERYDAY for weeks! why wont you answer! then… youre weird!!! youre so rude!! babyyyy i misss you i know you miss me…

    and on and on

  97.  #97Daria on March 20, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    Earthdancer – I would practice being the fern. I feel extremely triggered and feel like attacking.

    I would say

    ouch.. that didnt feel good to read… I don’t want to be judged. I feel really angry

    because I want to Practice Expressing my feelings (FOR ME) no attachment to outcome…

  98.  #98Daria on March 20, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    Or… another thing I could practice – tho i think i got this one down… is to NOT answer… ie no give energy to what doesnt feel good…

    expressing my feelings Does feel good tho…

  99.  #99Daria on March 20, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    Earthdancer – I feel soooo triggered readint that message grrrr….. I WANT TO CRUSH HIM.

  100.  #100Daria on March 20, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Hahaha –

    what about:

    I feel so triggered reading that message! I Want to CRUSH YOU

    hahah that would be honest… I Will do that if it comes up for me

  101.  #101Turtle Girl on March 20, 2010 at 12:11 pm


    thank you so much for your suggestions. It is too late-I am going. So-I am picking #5! I am girding myself to get through this because I know I would feel worse if I sat at home while all my other good friends were out. They have told me they will support me big time, be there and also leave if need be with me. So-big sigh, suck it up, feel my feelings and barrel through it. We shall see how I really feel. If I sat home-then I would never now, and that would be worse I think. At least going-I will get a gage on what’s up still inside me.

    Tinque- I know, you are right. But I still am not over wondering what he thinks. I know in my head, but my heart still hurts and worries and it may be crazy but I love my hurt and my heart and my crazy. I love my insecurities about what he is thinking. And I love that I hate him right now and I love that I love him still and I love that I am a chaotic mess. Ugh!

  102.  #102Earthdancer on March 20, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    Oh, Daria THANK YOU…wonderful goddess! haha I DO feel like stomping on him grrrrr….

    I think I feel hurt because I do not want to appear cold and distant, but I was NOT feeling a connection even though I was using my tools…leaning back…telling him what I felt…I just posted on my f/b:

    “God invented stilettos so that women will walk slowly and tread carefully while they are being courted. Properly courted.” So there, “Mr. hug-all-the-waitresses-don’t engage in real conversation-I’m only-being-social-what’s your-problem-no reason to feel icky” guy….Pphhhtttt!

    LOL I love my hurt, I love my fear of being thought cold, I love my fear everyone will see me that way…I love knowing that Mr. Right will love me with all my imperfections 🙂

  103.  #103Earthdancer on March 20, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    Turtle Girl,
    *hugs* to you and asking the Angels to be with you at this party…you are a brave, wounded Goddess and I applaud your strength & your choice (I feel I could not go yet but I am not ready)…

    Lean on your friends, don’t be left alone…let us know how it goes xoxo

  104.  #104tinque on March 20, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    Turtle Girl – Of course your heart hurts. It’s how we are made, so FEEL your hurt, your confusion, your chaos, but keep in mind your truth. Go and enjoy yourself. Try to keep your focus and energy OFF of him as best as you can.
    In chaos there is a lovely sense of order. When it all settles, beautiful things are left to enjoy and embrace.

  105.  #105heartbeat on March 20, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    Turtle Girl – you know, I LOVE your name… and it gives me a great image – a ‘feeling-image’ – of a turtle-goddess headed, step by heavy step, along the shore. Once she is in the water, she can swim like a mermaid, but for now, she has this journey to make.

    I’m sending you hugvibes and hope it turns out to be an opportunity to feel your way through, an experiment in feeling how you REALLY feel, steps toward healing rather than a trauma to be endured.

    Hugs, TG and let us know how you get on! xx

  106.  #106heartbeat on March 20, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    And here’s me sat on my fucking sofa LOL!!!

    Hmmm yeah I feel a restlessness…

    But for now I’m still happy with my colouring book and cocoa 🙂

  107.  #107Turtle Girl on March 20, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Earthdancer- (love your name) thank you! I will adk the angels to be with me! What a beautiful concept!

    Tingue-You said: in chaos there is a lovely sense of order. That is so true! I need to focus on the chaos and it be ok.

    Heatbeat-Thank you for your kind words about my name, what a beautiful description. that is exactly how I feel. This is a slow, arduous journey I have embarked upon-well all of us have in our own way.

    I picked Turtle girl because I am slow in life. I am often very grounded, not stressed, don’t get in a hurry to do anything, like to wait things out, very methodical. I am old and wise feeling most of the time. I feel like I am a turtle. I also collect them, have many, glass ones, wood ones, painted ceramic turtles. They are so cool.

    But then I get around”the one” and I go insane………… more slow lane, no more turtle. Must have him now!!!!!!!!!!!……I am cracking myself up right now-cause I know how crazy I can be with this shit. lol.

    But one day I will find the one for me, another turtle and we will go off into the deep still waters together……………isn’t that a lovely thought? Too bad you are in England, otherwise I would come over and give you a big hug.xxxooooo

  108.  #108heartbeat on March 20, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Turtle Girl – hug received!!! I feel warm and fuzzy…
    THANK YOU xxxooo

    Wouldn’t it be cool if we all could meet

  109.  #109Earthdancer on March 20, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    It would feel AWESOME if we all could meet…*hugs* to all … 😉

  110.  #110heartbeat on March 21, 2010 at 1:29 am

    Hugs, Earthdancer! 🙂 xx

  111.  #111Earthdancer on March 21, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Hello lovely ladies & Rori:

    I have been circular dating for about a month now; put my profile online and have gotten probably 100 responses …so I feel GLAD thank you universe… 🙂

    BUT…I used Rori’s 3-step recommended response and gave my phone # only when asked… I am only getting one meeting or phone call and then they fade away so I have to start over again…

    is my message that these men are only for practice? I can’t seem to keep 3 men in rotation and all this emailing to get to a meeting is exhausting…am I not learning my lesson? HELP 🙂
    Thanks 🙂

  112.  #112Ada on March 21, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    I am at a loss. I have ended all contact with my long distance man after 6 months where he went from super keen and lovely to difficult and blowing hot and cold – even turned down the friends offer to stay in contact and the offer for him to return my stuff, asking him to post it instead. But I am obsessed with thoughts of him all day and night – and even though I am using the tools it just flips back to him again and again I feel like I am going mad! Couple of days ago he sent me a text at night but it was wierd and not romantic so I haven’t replied. I have put an online profile up on 3 websites but so far none of the men are at all physically attractive to me and I am so low on energy that I would like there to be just a teeny spark before I go out on a date. Has anyone got any tips of freeing myself from thoughts of this man, I miss him very much. Thanks for your help x

  113.  #113Turtle Girl on March 21, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    I know how you feel. Its has been four months for me and I still feel like shit. I saw him last night at a party because we have mutual friends. I feel so shitty today I emailed him. Everything we are not supposed to do. I don’t care any more. Throw myself at his feet? No. But I at to the point where if I am an idiot I just don’t give a shit. I am tired, I am tired of pretending he doesn’t matter. Tired of trying to CD and prop myself up and pretend he is not in my head or whatever. I just feel it is so much work to fake it to I make it. Make what? To what? I have no attraction for any of these other men. It is a big farce and an act to me. Just bullshit.

    Obsession? Addiction? ok whatever it is, it is still there alive and in my soul so deep I feel like I would need an exorcist to get it out. I just said fuck it, and gave myself over to it. I still think of him every day, I still love him, I still miss him and I still can’t get him out of my head. The damn thing is, I have never once in my life felt like this. I have had lots of men and lots o relationships, but nothing like this one. Nothing feels like this. I feel like I will never meet anyone that I feel this bonded to. Like my inner being is somehow locked up with his inner being. I tried all the tools and it did not work. I be defeated. I feel shot through the heart and crushed as sure as I got run over by a train. I am the train-wreck. I feel like I don’t even give a shit about meeting anyone new. I hate the thought of it.

  114.  #114Linda on March 21, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    Ada, Turtle Girl…

    Feel your feelings and think your thoughts. They are yours. I know exactly how you feel. I have done it. I read somewhere that pretending something or someone is not in our hearts is NUTS. Who are we kidding not ourselves or anybody else. I wish I could hug you both, so I send one to you.

    Turtle Girl… I have written such letters and I did not care if they were received well or thought that I could make something happen. I call it planting a seed. Love and good things are never missed. It bears fruit and in ways that we often dont expect. I have written many a email to S… he would ignore or sometimes respond in hurtful rejective ways. It hurt me but… I said my piece. I planted seeds. I was true and loving and honest period. I had peace in me then. When my Dad died in 2000 it changed me. I used to be a person who held back, held my emotions closed.. but divinely led.. I left my dad in the hospital at 2 AM at his leading to go home and sleep. I reluctantly left and I got a call at 5 AM saying that he had passed away. The last words spoken between us was..”I love you”…. From that point on I never ever leave something unsaid or communicated. We are not promised tomorrow. When I love, I love, when I need to speak, I speak. Do I have the relationship I wanted with the person I wanted. NO… but There was no doubt who I was and how I felt about them. YOu see it was not about them, it was about me. I feel authentic and at peace within, even if I get rejected.

    Some may not agree with this. But for me this is what I do.

    I have sown many seed in this last mans life. They have all been good ones. One that I am proud to say, I gave my best and offered my best, even if it was not what he accepted. No I did not throw myself at his feet, but he knows really knows what kind of woman I am. Genuine, real, truthful, …. those are things I want to be remembered for and have associated with my name and memory. Even if I a never with him …. when he recalls me, he will have good things there.

    Incidently… I got two emails from him and a phone call today. He sent me a message on POF. (where we met a year ago)… he said…”I am off here forever, it is a wasteland except for my meeting you. I am sorry for my behavior”… hmmmm
    The other one was on my regular email. It said Please let me know if you got my message on POF… with a picture of a man blowing heart bubbles attached. Then a phone call asking me if I would come to a church function with him tonite.

    I did not go, I had plans…I do not feel like opening the door to him. I have to be careful what I invite into my life. Do I still love him…. yes. I wish things were different and maybe someday they will be.

    Daria said that she remains open, but does not tolerate bad behavior from men. This is what has happend in me. I no longer would tolerate his bad behavior toward me, walked away, even though I loved him. Maybe all the good things I am and was will inspire him to step up and become a person whom is acceptable to me by upping his behavior. If not , you just dont get in the door.

    DOnt feel bad or weak, we all feel this way. I send you HUGS


  115.  #115Daria on March 21, 2010 at 8:07 pm

    Earth dancer… I got this from Rori as well (I think). I DO NOT like to email endlessly to get to a meeting .

    So I write:

    I don’t like talking very much online. I’m at 555 5555.

    Then the ball is still in they court to take the step and call me

    I do this almost immediately if they start to strike up a conversation.

    Then on the phone, here I’m practicing to keep it short… Rori says 10 min. I don’t want to spend endless time on the phone EITHER to get to a meeting.

    Sometimes I feel carried away by phone convo that feels fun, and that’s ok… but I’ve noticed that when I keep it short it DOES seem to lead to a meeting Faster.

    (PS – If they text I say… I don’t like texting… Itd feel better to talk on the phone… or i feel curious to hear your voice Rori says… I actually say… Its cool to call)

  116.  #116Earthdancer on March 21, 2010 at 8:11 pm

    Linda, your post is so honest and TRUE…wow, powerful *hugs* to you both

  117.  #117Earthdancer on March 21, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    thank you Daria! 😉 I will try this approach with the very next contact…i’d been waiting for them to ask for my number first, so I see where this is a better way xoxo

  118.  #118Linda on March 21, 2010 at 9:23 pm

    I watched Ghosts of Girlfriends past tonight. THere was some really interesting messages in the movie. I see these chick flicks as learning tools and messages galore! If you have not watched it do.

    It showed so clearly how the course of our lives can be changed and subconscioulsy driven and how a woman who speaks her feelings… especially in the end, keeps her that prize. Her behavior inspired him and the ghosts too. lol

    I loved watching and not living it.


  119.  #119Turtle Girl on March 21, 2010 at 10:47 pm

    You have no idea what you gift you gave me with your last post. Thanks you so very much. I really mean that.

    i wrote to him a long email with my true feelings. He was angry and wrote back this: “You are the one who wanted to end communication, you are the one who cut off all communication, so live with that and leave me alone”

    He has to blame me you see, he is never wrong.
    However shitty that was, I am still glad I wrote to him. Because it was my truth. It was real and whether I am with him or not, i had to be free of all the fucking game playing that it feels like at times.
    Fuck leaning back when I feel like this. If it drives him away-so be it. I don’t care anymore. I want to express how i am feeling and I did. The chips will fall where they may, but I never again want to be inauthentic. It make me feel like crap. The truth is what ever it was I cared for him deeply, call it addiction, love, wrong man, bad man, whatever.
    Please know I so appreciated your post. I was starting to feel like I am just fucked up and everything was/is all wrong.

  120.  #120Ada on March 22, 2010 at 2:36 am

    Thank you Turtle Girl and Linda – you both helped me just by replying. I live in a small town and I’m a single mum and it sometimes feels as is everybody out there is getting what they want and feeling confident so it’s nice to know I’m not alone. As for the man, I’m not going to contact him, simply because unless he is coming to claim me, there’s nothing to say. Doesn’t make it any easier that he’s the last thing I think about at night and the first every morning.

  121.  #121Simply Shannon on March 22, 2010 at 7:32 am


  122.  #122Linda on March 23, 2010 at 5:17 am

    Turtle Girl. You are welcome. I know EXACTLY how you feel. I have indeed written just have you have and been responded unfavorably. It is ok. I am dedicated to being authentic, I have to take risks sometimes. I cant hide and stuff my feelings either. It all feels vunerable. I cant play games in my head either, I know that tug of war and I have felt and often feel just like you.

    There is a huge difference between reacting to life and responding to it. One requires thought the other thoughtless action only. One feels frenzied, the other controlled.

    The tools here are good and guides and are helpful but they are not laws. They are not meant to enslave nor do they demand perfection.

    I am a BIG FAN of authenticity. Regardless of his response you were REAL with YOU. In the long run, you have NO idea what the affects of your letter will be within the person you wrote it to. In the meantime, when you love, give, talk, be authentic.

    Next time around it will be easier. Promise!


  123.  #123Turtle Girl on March 23, 2010 at 2:40 pm


    You hit the nail on the head. My letter to him WAS NO LONGER ABOUT HIM. It was about me. I had to be free to express who I am. Period. I had to stop the madness in my head about how should i act, what should I say, how should I be, what will his reaction be , what will he say, on and on and on and on.

    I got to a point I not longer cared what he thought, thinks, feels. It is what I feel. I did not figure we are going to be an item anyway, so what difference did it make? Even then, how ok in it to be something you are not? I got tired of the fretting. I just dumped it out. Have not heard back and don’t expect to, but he knows that my position is from detaching with love. Still praying for him. Taking the moral high ground without being arrogant and being able to live with myself. I will take that any day over the other way. It comforts me to know you understand. I appreciate your input and empathy.

  124.  #124Polli on March 24, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    My first posts are on another recent topic site, about long distance relationships…..Wow, this topic that I have just stumbled on… was awesome!!! i still have “my not real relationship til we actually meet, guy”…First and foremost, he is my friend and a very good one. And has been for several yiears, but we recently a few months ago, took it a step further to an online “romance”. Which I know now was a big mistake because I quickly became very enamoured of him. I so needed to hear what Rori said on this topic which I have just read. Even though he has not let me down yet….the time could likely come. And I want to be ready. I hope we will always be friends but we may not. I have to get myself to the point where if we are not friends at some point it will not matter to me so much. I was getting myself very invested in him, and after our situation the other day I realized I needed to just STOP. To focus on me, not him at all. Not to say that I want to slam the door on him, but to just be what we can only possibly be at this point, which is friends who have not even met in person yet. (Our jobs are in different states and we became friends in the course of having to talk almost daily on the phone). WOW WOW WOW of all the stuff I have read here this was the most eye opening of all. (So far). So I am going to keep riding my horse to wherever life leads me…….learn what I need to learn and just keep going. I sort of begged him the other day to please not stop being my friend I did not feel like I could stand it if he was not. OH yes I CAN!!!!! That was said in the heat of emotion… a very low weak moment. I had called him on the fact that he was ignoring me in comparison to the constant contact we had been having. He got mad at the criticism and hinted that the friendship might not be right for either of us….and that is when I got in a panic and threw myself at his feet…. the next day I emailed him and said I was wrong to beg…..I should not be begging anyone to be my friend. That I should care more about myself than that. That was a turning point I believe in this “friendship”. I got his respect and I got my own back, which is even more important. He then wrote me a beautiful letter telling me how much my friendship means to him, that was a nice thing….but no great as my moment of saying what I did about begging….So I had sort of thrown myself at his feet temporaily baring my heart and weakness like an animal showing it’s belly to a stronger animal. Wow I am glad I jumped up later, dusted myself off and went back and stood toe to toe to him and showed him (and myself) that, that was only a temporary weakness. (And lack of judgement). I believe if I had not done that retraction of my weak behavior, he would have been repelled by my weakness and lack of self respect…..heck, I was repelled myself!!!!! Thanks Rori for your website and your wisdom…….you help us all so much!!! I honestly don’t think I would have had the courage or the good sense, to jump back up like that had I not been intently learning from this site. My only problem is in deciding which set of your tapes to get first!!!!!! I did get the ebook and read some of it before realizing I could not get it to come back up on this crappy pc….Rori does what she says, she refunded the payment and when iIget a better pc I will again order it. It seemed so awesome what I read of it…..Any chance you will print it up as a hard copy to make available instead? I would love it! I am sure alot of us would. Thanks Rori for everything and fellow sirens thank you too, I learn so much from all of you……..

  125.  #125Polli on March 24, 2010 at 7:11 pm

    Kate’s note and then Rori’s reply got me all worked up and I wrote what I did about my own experience. I could so identify with Kate because I did what she was about to do. I hope she didn’t. I hope she read what Rori said first and STOPPED. Or if she did turn belly up like I did…….I hope she rectified it like I did even if it is only to herself. Bottom line, it does not really matter what the guys think…they are gonna think what they think…….but it does matter what we think of ourselves. If you did throw yourself at his feet Kate, and you are already sorry like I was….just learn from it…….and go on…… Rori says get back on your horse and ride on without him. Leave him in choking in your dust…..if my long distance guy…….ever cuts me out of his life…..I will do the very same…….and then go on to my next life adventure…and learning experience.. We are the prizes not them….we have maybe deluded ourselves that they are…….but if they hurt us they are not a prize of any kind..again, we are the prize…….

  126.  #126moli on March 27, 2010 at 4:46 am

    Wow everytime I feel down and sad and lonely and dispairing here you all are, wise and wonderful making me feel good again.

    Daria mentions eeling triggered by men just showing up for fun and sex without the whole relationship and that seems to keep happening for me at the moment.

    I have kids which makes it a bit complicated I guess, but why the hell do these guys think I’m just up for a casual shag? Makes me feel sick! Yuck! One came round last night, late, after he’d done his gym session and seriously thought I’d be pleased to see him and let him stay over!!

    I said I wasn’t interested in a casual fling. I was only interested in getting involved with a view to a long term relationship. His answer ‘But you’ve got kids!’ Like it’s somesort of disease!! Makes me feel so angry!

    Where are the quality guys with the unconditional love for me??

    How do I pre-empt this? Is there some smart question I can ask before I get emotionally involved with them? I’ve tried saying I’m only looking for long term relationship but they seem to think that’s an added challenge to overcome. Makes me feel like they are out to lie to me to get me into bed. YUK YUK YUK


  127.  #127Lori on March 27, 2010 at 5:40 am


    I had the same thing happen to me when I first started circular dating. For me what worked was establishing a No Sex boundary. I did it for about 6 months and basically told every man I went out with that I was not having sex with him or ANYONE else outside of a committed relationship. PERIOD. Meaning I don’t care if you take me out on ten dates, we are not having sex unless we BOTH decide we are pursuing a relationship with marriage on the table in the future. While you will get a few that think this is some kind of challenge, if you stick to your boundary, eventually the ones just out looking for a good time will drop off and the ones interested in a committed relationship will start to show up.

    It’s hard, and I missed sex alot during that time. I did end up having sex with one of my CD guys just recently, but I made that decision only after I was sure that I was strong in my boundaries otherwise.

  128.  #128Lori on March 27, 2010 at 5:57 am


    Another thing: why do these CD men feel that they can just show up at your house uninvited? That is another boundary of mine because I have kids. I meet them in public on the first date, and after that they pick me up at my house, but they don’t “hang out” at my house or EVER show up uninvited. For me, if we are just dating with no talk of commitment, then that means he is picking me up and taking me OUT on dates. Being allowed to hang out at my house with me and my kids is a priviledge that only men I’m considering a long term commitment with get to have.

    I turn the whole kid thing around on them. I don’t let them make me feel like I am lesser dating material because I have kids, I tell them that I am VERY selective when it comes to who gets to even MEET my kids and that most men don’t “make the cut” I also tell them that I only allow men to hang out at my house if I am in a serious relationship with them because I don’t want my kids to feel confused if I have dates with different men during the same week. That also lets them know that they have to “earn” time with me and that I am circular dating. Most times I will reinforce this by meeting them at the door when they come to pick me up and not even inviting them inside if the kids are in the room.

    It’s funny because I have had men do a complete turnaround and start acting like getting to meet my kids for even five minutes would be like winning some kind of prize and make them think that they are “better” than other men I date.

  129.  #129moli on March 27, 2010 at 7:46 am

    Thanks Lori

    There’s some real food for thought here.

    I really like the idea of the ‘no sex policy’ while I’m circular dating – then it’s not even decision I need to make. And especially for the stuff about the kids. I guess because I have my kids with me all the time, except when using babysitters, it’s actually really hard to spend enough time with a guy to get to know him properly without him coming into my house. I have quite a few friends, male and female, who drop round to see me so my kids are used to adult friends coming and going. I’ve sort of slotted my CD guys in there too without thinking…

    A couple of CD guys have shown up at my house unexpectedly and I definately don’t invite them in. I find it a bit creepy that they’d turn up uninvited and unannounced.

    Right then, time for some stronger boundaries for me I think.

    Thanks again. Sometimes you’re so in the soup of it all it’s hard to have perspective 🙂

  130.  #130Lori on March 27, 2010 at 10:24 am


    I don’t know if you have this possibility, but between friends, family and babysitters I’ve managed to be able to arrange a couple of nights a week that I can slot for dating. I tell my CD guys that I’m free Saturday and Thursday nights or Wednesdays just for happy hour as I don’t have to pick up my kids until 7pm that night. The other days just are not available to a CD guy-that’s priviledged family time and would be time to earn with me as the relationship headed more towards commitment. I act as if the other days in the week just do not exist. Those 3 slots are pretty much it.

    I tell my CD guys that my free days book up pretty fast, so if they want a specific one of those days, they need to ask pretty early in the week. If my girlfriends ask for one of those slots before a CD guy does, then I give them the slot and tell him he has to wait for the following week. Usually, it only takes a couple of times telling them I’m already booked before they start calling earlier in the week to make plans with me.

    It sounds harsh, but believe me I have gotten some GREAT results with sticking to this. I’m still having yucky guys turn up and bad experiences like everyone else, but the overall quality of the men and the level of respect I’ve been getting has improved dramatically. Plus since my week books up early in the week, I don’t really spend that much time wondering what a certain guy is thinking or if he’s gonna call or ask me out. I’m usually trying to figure out how I can fit them in to the little bit of time I have available if they do.

  131.  #131Cheri on March 31, 2010 at 9:34 pm

    I am new here and was wondering if someone could explain the concept of circular dating to me?

    Thank and Blessings,


  132.  #132Rori Raye on April 1, 2010 at 10:08 am

    Cheri, Welcome – and there are so many posts about Circular Dating – read them…and I KNOW you’re going to get great help with it from all the Sirens here…Love, Rori

  133.  #133Laura on April 9, 2010 at 8:28 am

    This learning curve is steep and painful. I had been in a 4 year relationship with a man who made me feel either wonderful or insecure. He finally broke up with me and a few months later i met steve. Steve LOVED me. Steve loved me unconditionally. He was sweet and caring and dependable and wonderful. He came into my life, met all my friends and became part of our group (I am 50 and my “group” of friends are wonderful and divorced like i). I was still mourning the loss of this other man, I didn’t always treat Steve with the love he showed me. i took im and his love for granted. Some times this made Steve lose his temper. Never violent. Just angry and yelling. Long, sad story short……it was my 50th bday last month. Steve planned a whole weekend away for us. He invited a bunch of friends to a bar to celebrate. i spent much of the time chatting with a guy friend. Steve went ballistic. i used this as a reason to break-up. He begged, cried, pleaded….i wouldn’t bend. It was like I wanted to make him hurt the way I had been hurt by my ex. Steve kept pursuing me for days….until I told him he needed to stop or I would have to get a restraining order. That was it. 3 weeks…we never spoke or saw eachother. During that time, I had a revelation. I missed Steve terribly. I realized he was everything my ex had not been and I ached to apologize. I ran into steve (we have a HUGE cross-over with all my -now his too- friends). He ran up and hugged me. He said he had been afraid to contact me but he loved me more than anyone in his life. Then…..a girl walked up. His new girlfriend. I wanted to die. The next day Steve and i met for a drink to talk at 4pm. I cried the whole time. He couldn’t keep his hands off me. He kept saying “I thought we were done….I thought we were done.” He came back to my house and all we did was lie on the couch and hold each other for hours. We both cried. i apologized….said I wanted to try again. He said he needed to think. Afew days later we all had a co-ed softball practice. His new gf was there. I ached. He asked if he could come over agin that night. He wanted to make love….i said NO WAY….while he was dating others. Again tears. I have never been so open and vulnerable to any man. And he was crying saying he loved me so much but he couldn’t just jump back because I changed my mind. He said he is “just dating” this woman but she is nice and it would be wrong to just dump her because I decided to come back. And he said what if he does something to make me angry and we break-up again. He is struggling financially…like everyone these days….and he doesn’t want to be in a committed relationship now. Even though only 3 weeks ago he had been looking at rings for me!! He said he wants to leave the door open for us. But he needs time to think….
    HELP…..what to do? I will see him all the time with this girl. I know this was my fault. But how could only 3 weeks make so much difference in his feeling s toward me? He texted me the other day and said…he does not want to date me now and to leave him alone. He was the good man I had been waiting for! What are the “rules” when you are the one who screwed up? HELP!!

  134.  #134Ingrid on April 9, 2010 at 8:34 am

    Hi Laura!

    My advice is to leave Steve completely alone. If he chooses to have “another girlfriend”…..let him. Do not call him, do not make plans with him even, let him be. ” HE has got to figure it out for his ownself”… my kids say….lol. They say this about their dad, my hubby of over 20 years who has taken up with strippers after 20 years of marriage.

    Laura, if there is anything I have learned it is to let the man be the pursuer, not us. If they do not pursue, they do not care, or not enough. Trust your intuition too. If a relationship is meant to work out, it will. Let life “BE” as we be.

    God Bless You

  135.  #135Laura on April 9, 2010 at 8:40 am

    I should add….Steve and I dated for 1 year. We were so close….I just coldn’t committ all the way and he had been talking marriage while I was still ambivilant. In the 3 weeks we were broken up….I gained clarity ….and he gained a girlfriend!! UGHHHH. I know I could lure him back with sex…..he is strongly attracted to me. But I want him back all the way. I feel like I was “the guy” in this relationship. And now all i do is cry. Rori…how does a woman make amends? I eplained….I apologized……but I feel like he went through all the mourning and anger and his ego is bruised. His new “date” is ten years younger and a good ego booster. I feel like an idiot. this is a lesson to all you women who are holding on to an old lover…hoping he will come back. You may lose a wonderful man…..
    Is this fixable? You do have a crystal ball…right? lol

  136.  #136Laura on April 9, 2010 at 8:45 am

    Thanks for reaching out. As for your husband….strippers? Really? I am so sorry! Are they back “in style”? Pathetic! Him and his choice…..not you of course!! OY

  137.  #137Hopeful on April 24, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    I’m finding this blog really helpful – feel better already. Just finished an 8 year friendship, made the classic mistake of trying hard in the hope he would change and want more, but he just kept running to other women for sex, but still wanted to hang out with me for friendship. Just couldn’t seem to see that I have feelings too! I found out in January that he has a girlfriend but was keeping it from me, and hoping for a fling although he doesn’t want to marry her because she has kids he can’t take on. I’ve finally woken up to how much stupid I have been to blame myself for things not working out and seeing the truth about him, although I still care for him and feel we had a deep connection on a friendship level. He has expressed feelings to me that he said he wouldn’t to anyone else. I’ve resisted the temptation to contact him and tell him I miss him, especially after finding this website. Men seem to drop me when I stick to my boundary of no sex until commitment but I know it is right for me. I met someone else during a temporary break-up and he was a friend for 2 years and we met once but he wanted sex on date no. 2 and I lost trust at which point he disappeared. I am afraid to build friendships again just to have them disappear, I have had 3 unfaithful men in my life – I must be doing something wrong. Not sure if I am ready to date again as my heart is still with my long-term friend although it seems hopeless and I know he is bad for me – I need to take better care of myself. Not sure where I go from here …. any suggestions? Thanks. LOL xx

  138.  #138Rori Raye on April 24, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    Hopeful – Welcome – and let’s start by taking this “unfaithful” thing apart…Ask yourself – How am I being unfaithful to myself? The cure here for you is Circular Dating. You have to get out of this “friendship” thing and just start dating…no hanging out…they treat you romantically, you respond with Feeling Messages. You’ll start to get a feel for what man is behaving how and what he wants, and what you want…Love, Rori

  139.  #139lm on May 8, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    I just broke up with my man. i caught him online dating a year ago and never really got over it and things just deteriorated for me. i couldn’t trust myself to be honest about how i was feeling and i didn’t feel safe around him anymore. i feel so disappointed because i loved him so much and he’d started talking about kids and marriage. but something still felt wrong. i think i would keep judging him and feeling inadequate.

    he asked if we could still be friends, still see each other, and i said no. i feel so sad but also so proud of myself. i have to work with him and i think i will try to get a new office so i don’t have to hear him talk down the hall. i feel relieved. i love myself too much to compromise anymore.

    i just wanted to share.

  140.  #140Bonnie Gal on May 15, 2010 at 7:44 am

    A penny for your thoughts, sister Sirens?!

    K and I dated for about 6 months, then drifted apart when I stopped doing most of the work of the “relationship” (emailing, going to his house, etc.).

    Within two months of this parting, he took up with another woman (younger by 10 yrs–why I feel like telling you that is curious) and moved VERY quickly to living together (and then marriage.) He sold most of his possessions (incl some prized vintage motorcycles) to raise the money to move out of a roommate situation into a rental house they chose together.

    Ten months after our parting, he contacted me via email again saying he missed me and felt bad about the way he had let things go with me. He asked if he could get together with me. Via email, I asked him why?

    We ended up talking on the phone for a short time, and I then learned that he had married the girl and the marriage had lasted just a couple of months before he left her. He said that they were divorcing. He said that he felt embarassed by this hasty marriage, that they had married hastily due to immigration pressures because her visa was about to expire and they wanted to continue their relationship. As they separated, she went back to Canada. She emailed him sporadically.

    Well, to keep a long story long, we kinda got back together, but its not been smooth or even felt very real. We’ve dealt with the death of his close friend together, and I sometimes feel that he is grateful to me more than he loves me. He told me that he loves me very much. I told him that I was not a FWB and he adamantly agreed that he was not trying to go there, but he did not exactly know what he wanted from me and our relationship.

    That was a year ago, and a lot has happened. He tried to commit suicide 2x and was hospitalized for alcohol, PTSD and depression/anxiety. Two months after the hospitalization, she came from Canada for a week and stayed with him, which he did not tell or discuss with me. (I pieced it together shortly after she left.) Two months after that, he was laid off work by his employer to get “real help”. That was 6 months ago, and he’s financially struggling to keep himself afloat.

    So, this week, his wife showed up unexpectedly from Canada. K tells me she wants to get a divorce or anullment. He texted me that he needed my trust for the next few days. He then called me and left a vm that she was here for a few days to work out the legal papers of divorce/anullment, and that he really, really needed me to please trust him, and that he would call me when he could.

    I texted back that it felt respectful for him to be upfront with me about her arrival; dealing with their broken marriage was inevitable, and I trusted him to do what felt would make him best about himself and us. And that it would feel good to hear from him in a few days.

    The next day, I texted “How are things going? This feels really weird…” No reply.

    On my regular route to work–honest!) I saw her car there at his house, Canada plates and all! So NOW I think the ” I need you to trust me” stuff was all about her STAYING with him for the week she’s in town. But he didn’t actually say that in his vm. HOLY CRAP!

    I can’t help but noticing that neither of their cars have moved in the 3-4 days she’s been here! That doesn’t sound like seeing a lawyer to me? I feel so afraid that they are shacked up together this past week (in the house whose rent I helped pay for this month), and I am fearful and angry and nauseous, all at the same time!

    This feels so WRONG! I feel K has no boundaries with this woman (remember how he sold ALL his wonderful collected things to create a home with her) and the divorce/anullment is BS/smokescreen to explain her weeklong visit.

    So him permitting her to stay at his house seems to tell her that he is not involved with anyone and therefore its OK, and privately to me, that he is not very concerned about my opinion/response. In contrast, when he started dating her intensely, he got an old tatoo of his ex GF’s name covered over, deleted my number from his cell, deleted my email address from his contacts, took his profile off social networking sites, etc. He went ALL IN.

    I feel threatened by her presence at his house. I would have said “HELL NO! I know you need to spend a lot of time with her making phone calls and finding an attorney, but she needs to find another place to stay while she’s in town.” I feel jealous and anxious.

    If the situation were reversed and I showed up at his door when he was (happily) with her, I have little doubt that he would have said, “You can’t stay here. Even on the couch, as that would put me in a bad position with my GF and I’m not going to do that.”

    I am afraid that he is still in love with her, and puts her wants (may be the same as his wants) before my feelings and needs.

    Perspective? Comments? I think I’m in for some tough love!

  141.  #141Simply Shannon on May 15, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    Bonnie Gal: Wow. I’ll pull a Rori… WHAT ARE YOU DOING?

    He tried to commit suicide 2x and was hospitalized for alcohol, PTSD and depression/anxiety. Two months after the hospitalization, she came from Canada for a week and stayed with him, which he did not tell or discuss with me. (I pieced it together shortly after she left.) Two months after that, he was laid off work by his employer to get “real help”. That was 6 months ago, and he’s financially struggling to keep himself afloat.

    This man has tried killing himself, hospitalized for alcohol and depression, lost his job, and now he’s shacked up with his WIFE (he isn’t divorced yet).


    Okay, I feel bad for saying that but I won’t erase it. Seriously though I know your heart is tied up in this man. And by being here and even asking the question, I’m praying that your eyes are starting to open to reality. This has nothing to do with his junk and how he isn’t paying attention to your needs. YOU are not paying attention to your needs.

    I hope others will come along and share their feelings. I feel shocked.

  142.  #142EternalOptimist on May 15, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    Bonnie Girl

    My heart goes out to you. I don’t often write but I was so moved by your story that I feel like holding your hand. I know how it feels being in love with someone who doesn’t love and treat you the way you deserve to be loved and treated. I’ve been there.
    Tolerating everything, believing all the lies, drowning in self-deception just so I could be a good and understanding girlfriend.

    Unfortunately, it makes the man lose respect for us. It’s obvious to the man that we have little or no self worth. If we allow ourselves to be treated badly and accept it, it makes the man love us less and makes him treat us even worse with time (since he’s figured out that we’re willing to do anything to keep him!). NOTHING GOOD CAN COME OUT OF SUCH A DEMEANING SITUATION.
    I knew I was not helping myself but I felt powerless. I was so hooked. This site has helped me tremendously. You have to cut this guy loose (cold-turkey if possible) and get into circular dating. Your self esteem will gradually come back, you’ll start to understand how wonderful and desirable you are and won’t believe the attention you will get from other men. It will be hard, extremely hard to get over this guy whom you’ve gone through so much with. You’ll probably think about him every day and all the time but you have to accept the memories as just that, cherish them, learn from the experience and get on with your life.
    That’s what I’m doing and it gets better everyday. No contact helped a lot.
    You may not think so now but a few months from now, you’ll be sooo thankful that you took this step.
    I wish you strength.

  143.  #143Lori on May 16, 2010 at 6:20 am

    Bonnie Girl,

    I agree with the others. RUN, and cut off contact completely. When my ex and I broke up, we continued to “date” casually even when he started seeing another woman as well. I had basically been demoted to a FWB after 3 years of serious exclusive dating that was supposed to lead to marriage and was so in denial I didn’t even realize it. I tried to circular date and get over him, but just wasn’t able to put my heart into dating anyone else when all I did was just look forward to my next visit with him. The situation was tearing me up and ruining my self esteem. When I came to this site, the women here advised me to cut off contact completely with him. It was the hardest thing I’ve ever done, but I did it and I feel certain that was the only way I could have gotten over him. A year and a half later. my life has turned completely around and I’m doing better than I ever have in my entire life in every area of my life.

    K is a textbook Toxic Man. My advice is cut him off completely. Don’t answer his calls, emails, don’t see him at all no matter how hard it is. Delete him from your phone so you are not tempted to call or text him. Get the Toxic Men CD from Rori and study it as if your life depends on it. And get out there and circular date yourself and every man that asks you even if they are not your type or you don’t feel attracted to them. Listen to the messages they are bringing you and set your boundaries. Practice the tools even with men you don’t particularly like. It will seem frustrating at times, but trust me it is a PROCESS and it DOES WORK!

  144.  #144EternalOptimist on May 16, 2010 at 7:44 am

    Bonnie Girl,
    …..may I add, this is the perfect opportunity for you to execute your plan. By the time he’s done with his “honeymoon” with his wife and reaches out for his “fill-in”, you’ll be no where to be found! Can you imagine how crazy and frantic he’ll be trying to figure out what happened to you. Wouldn’t it be wonderful for him to experience a little bit of the mental torture and turmoil you’ve gone through these past few days.

    I wish I had the courage to pull the plug myself, while I was debating what to do, he broke up with me. Don’t let that happen to you. Regain some power by making the decision (instead of having it made for you) and ACTING ON IT. You will survive and thrive.

  145.  #145Bonnie Gal on May 16, 2010 at 10:58 pm

    Eternal Optimist and Lori:

    “I wish I had the courage to pull the plug myself, while I was debating what to do, he broke up with me. Don’t let that happen to you. Regain some power by making the decision (instead of having it made for you) and ACTING ON IT. You will survive and thrive.”

    I did it yesterday. And I feel strong today. And I am working on creating strength for tomorrow and the next day, too.

    I had a big AHA! moment when I realized I had NEVER broken up with a guy/man in my life. I’ve let unfulfilling relationships (friendships and romances) peter out and drift away, but I have NOT EVER before actively ended a personal relationship. [Said no thanks to another date, or played the ‘just friends’ card, sure, but I don’t consider that a ‘relationship.’]

    BOUNDARIES!!! Hello, where are you?! I was married at 19, married for 26 years, widowed 4 years ago. This is such a BIG concept! You have no idea!

    I remember something I read in Rori’s e-letters: Overfunctioning is about not having boundaries for yourself and for other people. Not realizing what behavior/problems/actions belong to other people as distinctly different from those for which I am responsible. This is an important lesson for me!

    I took myself on a motorcycle ride today, and while out and about, met a man on a motorcycle enjoying the same scenic viewpoint. We talked for a little while, and he asked where ‘my man’ was…in a fit of candor, I told him, “The man I’ve been making special in my heart and life is with his wife today.” And he said ‘I’m so sorry. You are a beautiful woman, you ride a beautiful motorcycle, and there are thousands of men out there who would welcome the opportunity to know you and treat you like the lady you clearly are. Please remember that when you are ready for a positive change.”

    So, a learning day…

    In gratitude,
    Bonnie Girl

  146.  #146Lori on May 17, 2010 at 6:33 am

    Bonnie Girl,

    Wow, motorcycle guy was definitely a messenger! These are the kinds of things you become aware of as you circular date.

    I had a similar boundary issue as you. I had trouble saying no to people and often let myself get talked into things that were wrong for me. Circular dating and working the tools for the past year changed all of that and now my boundaries are strong and my life is turning around! Good luck to you!

  147.  #147Simply Shannon on May 17, 2010 at 6:35 am

    Bonnie Girl: YEAH! I feel encouraged!!

  148.  #148Bonnie Gal on May 17, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    SimplyShannon/Lori/Eternal Optimist,

    Thank you ladies for holding my hand and helping me learn to hold my own hand just now.

    I wrote an earlier post between these two posts above which did not appear (due to my own error). In it I shared that I had gone over to K’s house on Saturday, willing to meet his wife and risking confrontation with either/both of them. I wanted to know the truth: was she here to get a divorce or not? But learning the TRUTH was more important to me than the actual answer.

    Part of my motivation was related to my belief in messengers (and thank you for mentioning that Sunday’s motorcycle man was a messenger!): About one week ago I had written a Power Speech, mostly to get clarity and get my own head together, that said I did not want someone else’s husband, I wanted my own. So I was feeling curious if she was a Messenger in response to that strong feeling I had made known to myself and written down.

    He was SHOCKED when he opened the door to me. Her car was gone and she was at the grocery store. I didn’t feel there was any benefit to asking about the divorce since it was once again just his side of the story.

    Instead of asking him what the status of that was, I said to K’s casual query “What’s going on?” that I needed to get my father’s fishing rod and reel which I had loaned him. I waited on the porch and he promptly brought them out to me. As he handed them to me, without making eye contact, he said “Don’t you even want to talk ? ” I didn’t answer, just took the fishing gear out to my car and left.

    I feel brave for going over there, I feel strong for getting those precious things back as I would have felt pain & great distress if permanently lost to me. The nausea I have been feeling for the last week has subsided since I did this, which affirms that it was right for me; and I feel stronger and more “together” than I have in a long time.

    The question here now, is: Does anyone think she might have been a messenger, here to release him from their dead marriage, in response to my intention to not be with someone else’s husband OR a messenger to remind me that K was not for me as he was indeed still her husband.

    ?? Although I’d love to factually know the outcome of this week and I might never get that, I feel curious to hear what my sisters feel and am appreciative of all the good wishes being channeled to me.

    My ribs are like bands of steel, keeping me standing tall and strong, unwavering on the inside and reinforcing my boundaries. Strong on the inside, working on soft on the outside. 🙂

    Trying to feel my way through all of this and get out of my head…I am such masculine energy in my work and single-mom space, it is very hard to change this part of me. Even while married, my then-husband was in the military and gone so much of the time, that I was the masculine and feminine energy of the house.

    Bonnie Girl

  149.  #149Laura on May 17, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    HELP RORI…and ladies!

    I am the saddest I have ever been and in just a few hours I need to have a conversation with the man I love.
    Quick background…..we started dating a year and 1/2 ago. We are both divorced….I am 50…he 52. We fell in love very soon. He had the sweetest nature I have ever experienced in a person. He had been left by his wife and is raising his teenage son on his own. He also suffers from bi-polar disorder. He was never dx but…i am a therapist and after a month or two of dating I started to see him have bouts of rage. Very manic. He was always apologetic afterwards…….usually his rage was fueled by his jealousy over the tiniest thing. He wound up being diagnosed….put on meds and is seeing a therapist. I stuck with him through ALL of this. This past March though….right before my 50th bday….he went off again because I was talking to a friend of his (and an ex bf of mine). He called me the c-word, etc. I broke up again and he kept calling and crying and coming to my home for a couple weeks. I help strong because I needed to. But it broke my heart because I loved him so much.
    We had no contact for a month. BUT….I introduced him to all my friends during our relationship and he is in “our group” like it or not.
    I ran into him 5 weeks ago for the first time. We immediatly fell into each others arms and cried. I had missed him more than I had realized. We met the next day to talk. He has had all his meds changed up and he seemed wonderful. We talked and talked and talked…..but he met someone new in “our” group…she recently got divorced and he wanted to keep seeing her but see how things would be for us…if we took it slow. I am CD. in short…the past 5 weeks have been like heaven. He is the man I knew he could be. We spend wonderful time together and yes…we are lovers again. But it has been on the down-low so to speak…so we could figure out what we should do without everyone elses opinion.
    It was hard for me…because I see him out with her too…although he never touches her if we are in the same place together. AND we are all on a softball team together. I sort of lost my cool though and LEANED WAY TOO FORWARD…..I pshed for a Saturday night date. We went out with a couple from our group and then to a party. I said to him that I didn’t mind him dating her and I would date people too but I did not want to be a secret!! At the party were a lot of our friends and he asked me not to touch him or kiss him because he didn’t want her to hear about it. I was hurt…..she DID hear about it. SHE is hurt and yesterday I guess she confronted him. He just called me and sounded devestated. He said, “This is a mess. She was cool about it but she is hurt. it isn’t like I care more about her feelings than yours but I need to make a choice. I don’t love her and probably never will. What you and I have is special but I never expected to get back with you. I was so hurt after our last break-up that I TOLD myself it was over. It has been wonderful the past few weeks with us but I am not ready for a committed relationship with anyone.” At that point I said softly, ” I love you and I am on your side. I think you should date other people while you feel this way. We can go back to seeing each other without anyone knowing but why are you willing to take an ultimatum from HER??” He was very confused and said we needed to talk more about it later.
    My heart is breaking! I can’t believe I went from having a man madly in love with me for a year to not caring about me at all…or enough. We are suppose to go to a concert next week but now he says he had asked her too and it will be a big hassle if he has to tell her he is going with me. He said that HE is in a bad situation. HE IS!! FUCK….he is the one with all the choices. How did this happen? What can I do to save this?? What should I say to him when he calls?? I love him so much and really feel like I WENT THROUGH the fire with him!! I was there for him AND introduced him to all his NEW friends!! I feel hurt and angry and abandoned…which I know is how HE felt when I felt I needed to end things last month.
    I should also say that our passion and sex is off the charts….always has been. What is the tipping point here for him???

    Monday, 17 May 2010 @ 1:19pm

  150.  #150Laura on May 17, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Jenifer F-
    I just read your post about the shattered glass…and it made me cry. i so feel that…….taken care of so lovingly by a man and then POOF…….again. It is exhausting and sad. Next time you break something….just know that I would help you pick up the pieces! Goddess Power!

  151.  #151EternalOptimist on May 17, 2010 at 9:28 pm

    Bonnie Girl,

    Power to you!! It feels good to hear you sounding stronger!

    You said “Does anyone think she might have been a messenger, here to release him from their dead marriage, in response to my intention to not be with someone else’s husband OR a messenger to remind me that K was not for me as he was indeed still her husband”.

    I wonder, if she’s here to get a divorce, why did she need to stay at his house and why didn’t he reveal to you that she would be staying with him? Why didn’t he respond to your text? Why can’t he continue to communicate with you while she’s here ? Having been through divorce, I’m aware that you need your friends the most at a time like that. I would think that’s when he’ll need you even more( talk etc.).

    Hopefully with time, you may gain more clarity.

    Stay strong.

    Hugs to you.

  152.  #152karla on June 14, 2010 at 2:58 am

    My boyfriend and I have been on a break for a week but I am not sure if I am supposed to wait. We had been dating for 9 months and of course I grew close to him and eventually pushed him away because I stopped focusing on myself and only him. I realize this now. We would fight about girls that flirted with him and now I also realize how I would blow things out of proportion to many times and would cause unnecessary fights. At first, we both agreed on a “break” but then I let my emotions take control and began to question the so called “break” and began to beg, yes now I realize that it pushed him away. I didnt want to beg but I was so overwhelmed and could not handle thinking that he could possibly start dating other people. He says he wants to focus on himself since he started feeling lost because I was always, ALWAYS around. It has been 3 days since I stopped all contact with him. I asked him if he would return and he said he wouldnt if I kept aggravating him by nagging and begging for his return and not respecting his decision for this time, then he said he will return if all this changes.
    Do you think I lost him for good and I should move on since I begged or do I still have a chance because I am now allowing him to breath in his own space?

    I literally told my mom to hold my phone for a while so I wont be tempted to text or call.

    Thank you,

  153.  #153Rori Raye on June 14, 2010 at 8:39 pm

    Karla, good for you for enlisting your mom! Everything will change as fast as you do. When you get your self-respect and esteem back, and focus on you – and yes, on other men! -That’s when he’ll show up. Would YOU be interested in being with someone who acted like a puppy dog? Imagine being more like a cat… Love, Rori

  154.  #154sofie on June 26, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    I have observed — over & over — tell guys you don’t want something and they will line up to give it to you.

    Have any of you seen the movie “The Tao of Steve”? The main character describes to his pals the running rabbit phenomenon, where the dog runs past the nesting rabbit, obsessively chasing the one who is running away.

    Seems everyone wants what they can’t have, but all you have to do is to look at Nature for role models of how we, as primo Goddess females — as bonafide sirens — should behave, is our inherent nature to behave.

    Society, family and culturalization have turned our roles upside-down. We need to right these, restore the natural balance.

    We know our formidable gifts and talents, what we bring to the table (but give too much and they lose respect). Men need to see our bet and ante up or fold.

    Then there are those mistaken expectations to consider ….

  155.  #155Denise on July 7, 2010 at 11:42 am

    This is such a great question and answer….great reminder. I think we’ve all be in a situation like this.

    CONVINCING, that’s what this is about. I’m not sure if anyone has had this happen to them, but I did earlier this year. I had a man try to convince me why I should continue to date him. Very educational to be on the other side….now I know how it feels.

    I also really LOVE this comment by Rori:
    and if this man really is all that and Mr. Right to boot – he’ll show up again.

  156.  #156Danielle on August 2, 2010 at 9:20 pm

    Hi everyone,
    I’m new here. I been reading here and there for quite sometime as a friend had recommended this website in order for me to gain some kind of control over myself because I have lost all of my sanity and sunken into a deep depression. I have been with I would suppose is a Toxic Man (I’ve never caught him actually cheating but I have high suspicions). Anyways, we got into a huge fight two Wednesdays ago and I have not heard from him. I did the usual mistake of texting, calling, going off the wall, back and forth between angry, sad, sorry etc. hoping to hear from him. I’ve received nothing but the silent treatment. This is the second time he’s done this. The first time was a month ago when he at least had the decency to tell me it was over and than ignore me, and I didn’t bother for three days and I sent him a message and he told me to call him, he’ll answer and everything was fine again. This time it’s just a disaster. I did go kind of crazy on him during the fight because I suspected he was about to do something he shouldn’t be and was just so sick of shady behavior without any explanation, I needed to see it with my own two eyes. Still not sure if he ended up doing anything. I’ve sunken into a deep depression and have no desire to do anything. I know I’m a gorgeous girl but I feel like my self esteem has been crushed and that there’s no hope anywhere for any sense of relief from this pain. I vowed not to contact him or attempt to anymore from today on and to try and stop beating myself up over him. I’m just not doing so well in general and not handling this good at all. I don’t know what else to do, or where to even start, so I figured I’d post a comment and see what everyone has to say and hopefully the healing can begin. I love him and miss him so much and feel so left behind like I never even mattered after a year for as much as a HEY ITS OVER LEAVE ME ALONE. Just the silent treatment. So frustrating 🙁

  157.  #157Rori Raye on August 4, 2010 at 9:35 am

    Danielle, Welcome, and I’m so sorry you’re in so much pain…and this is the point at which you need some help. You need a therapist, or a counselor, or a coach to get you through this and to work on what’s inside you that compels you to hurt yourself like this continually. Find a CODA group if you can. He did not crush your self-esteem. You “hired” him to hit you over the head with a brick. The “fighting” and ‘going crazy” is where your work is. It has nothing to do with him. Love, Rori

  158.  #158Danielle on August 4, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    I went to see a therapist, it did absolutely nothing. I’ve been in and out of therapy since I was 6. (I’m currently going to be 23 in November.) I found it never helped much. I’m trying to find a psychiatrist to see if I still have a chemical imbalance and why all of a sudden depression and anxiety are existing in my life. I heard from this man, Tuesday at 441 am saying “Hi, I just got back. Got work tomorrow. Sorry I didn’t respond the past week, I was hurt and just didn’t want to talk. I will hit you up at some point tomorrow.” He never did, and I had texted him to ask if he was still coming to the wedding we’re attending in September and I got no response. I don’t understand, why pop back into my life and than just go back to the same behavior. It’s a shame because he really is a great person/guy, but when it comes to relationships, he is a disaster. We never even broke up! And we we’re exclusive. It’d be nice to know what’s going on so I can just be done with it if it is over and get myself back out there somehow, someway.

  159.  #159Lovely on August 29, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    Ugh, I finally have news from this “that guy” of mine.

    I asked, that’s right I did the unthinkable and basically asked this guy if he is in love with me. Of course we know his answer, he said no. He treated me that date and others since, great. And, he is continuing to make plans with me. He also laid this one on me recently, that he almost told me he loved me last October. Now, since then we have pretty much only had great times. I’ve met his family, spent times with his kids, met his colleagues, went on vacation with him last year, and this summer with his extended family.

    I am fully ensconced in this guy’s life, all but for in his up-front feelings for me, or at least admitted [to me].

    I’ve known he is cold-ish from the start because I could basically tell he was in love with me last fall. I didn’t sleep with him until November.

    My birthday is coming up and he wants to help me do things (kinda major construction at my house) for two upcoming weekends. He lives out of town. I said okay, at least thinking I could get some free construction out of the deal. He and I have also agreed not to sleep with each other until we “know.” So we’ve stopped, though just recently.

    Aside from dating, and speaking honestly about my feelings, I feel lost, unsure of what to do. But I also feel odd, and it feels like he loves me, making me feel even more odd.

    I’ve been dating him for a year. He has been really involved with some medical things I’ve been going through, and he invited the help of his uncle a physician also. He is really sweet to me, consistently.

    I’ve never felt frustrated with this guy, so to feel tortured by him suddenly… I just feel so horrible.

    Any ideas? And yes, I am trying to figure out times he wants to see me where I will be busy. *sigh* (I don’t have dates etc still in this town, just moved back from living near him for a summer job.)

  160.  #160Karen on September 24, 2010 at 7:01 pm

    Thank you for your posts! I just spent over an hour reading all of them and so appreciate them. Tonight was one of the first nights in awhile that I wasn’t peeling myself up off of the floor missing my ex like crazy. I went the no contact route like coming off a drug and detox has been excruciating. 2 months now of no contact and I have not fallen off of the wagon..LOL
    I went on 8 coffee dates over the summer but I did not like any of them. I was wondering if it’s ok to take a break from circular dating. I find that unless it’s someone I’m excited about meeting, I miss my ex more on the date. Lately all I feel like doing is hanging in my PJ’s with my son- tonight we made pop-corn and watched America’s funniest home videos. I don’t want to be anywhere else right now- is that bad? Am I putting myself in a “safe” cage?

  161.  #161Karen on September 24, 2010 at 7:26 pm

    Danielle- my ex was also hot and cold, would appear, disappear, reappear, text, call, surprise, not respond, ignore. You never knew where you stood or what would happen next. That kind of relationship is CRAZY MAKING!!! No wonder you feel out of control. It is not you. You miss him because of the intermittent rewards. Rori talks about it in her toxic men program. However the rewards are inconsistent so you fight harder to get them and make yourself nuts. fast as you can. I did. No contact for me. I miss him like crazy every day but I knew for my own sanity that I needed to get away from that drug. You can too. Listen each day to Rori’s CD’s, journal, meditate, remember what you love to do and do it. Reading your post reminded me to continue to do the same. You deserve better- the only good thing my therapist told me was to write down a list of all the bad things about him. She said we remember the good- carry the bad in your purse. There are also articles on line that you can read about co-dependency and work on that as Rori said. Learn to be happy WITHOUT a text from this toxic man. Embrace aloneness. Embrace the quiet- force yourself- it is not as scary as you may think. I am actually liking this place a lot more than I want to be “out there” dating Mr. Wrong. Good luck!

  162.  #162Michelle on December 7, 2010 at 3:53 am

    So, this is my first time on this site. My boyfriend of 5 months broke up with me for the sixth time two weeks ago. The first five times, we continued to talk and go out and they lasted only 1-2 days each. He always would tell me how he was “crazy”, how much he does love me, and how we are going to have a beautiful life together. That was more precious than gold and gems to me. This breakup two weeks ago was different.

    For a little background, he lost his wife of 32 years just 10 months before we began dating and he is a devout Christian. Anyway, I believed he was breaking up with me due to his grieving and guilt over our level of intimacy. We prayed almost daily together for our children, for our friends’ situations, and for forgiveness and self-control over our level of intimacy.

    I have not heard from him for two weeks; however, I have called him. After spending every day together for five months, it feels very lonely without him and his son, who has Down’s Syndrome (30 year old). A week ago, I made him and his son some pumpkin bread and took it to his house. We had tea and talked superficially, but not about the relationship. I stayed for a movie and one thing led to another; I believed he was trying to make up with me. When he was done, he said, “I am a sex addict” (about himself). I was devastated and felt so used that the next day, I wrote him a slightly toxic, but truthful, letter. He agreed with my letter, but did not want his grown children to ever see the letter.

    I am very confused; just days before he broke up with me, he talked to his dad and mom, two of his sisters, and his best friend growing up on the phone and told them that he loves me, that I am so good to him, and that he cannot wait for them to meet me. I believed he still loved me when he broke up with me, but now, after not hearing from him for two weeks, I am not so sure. I have sought out advice from the internet on how to win him back, but I believe it is too late. He is a good man, although he is not without fault. On Wednesday, my car got stuck in the snow on my driveway and I called him to rescue me. He came and helped me get unstuck and while I was at my appointment, he brought his snow blower to my house and snow blew my driveway about 8 feet across and 60 feet long. I was grateful and hugged him, but his hug back was not the same.

    Through your site and a counseling session, I see that I was one of those women who were always doing to prove my love. He was very disorganized when I met him, missing appointments, running out of groceries, losing bills and paying bills late, unable to keep up with the laundry, etc. so I thought I was being a good helpmate to him. It got to the point that I was there every day, helping him after his surgery, etc to the point where I lost myself, gave away myself, stopped giving him a reason to love me, I guess. (I am a nurse, and a caretaker at heart.) I am heartbroken, but determined not to let this emotional setback ruin a beautiful holiday season. I know that God is working out the details for my life; I do not know if they include my ex-boyfriend. However, I do love him and do want to try again. I believe he is worth it. Why am I not able to let go like he has? I feel like there is something wrong with me.

  163.  #163Elda on April 7, 2011 at 10:28 pm

    I was with this guy for one year and half. I was really good to him, very attentive to him, and I always wanted to spend time with him. We would fight about us hanging out together because he would want to stay home, and he would just get into some weird moods. He did tell me he loved me and I loved him too, I still do. We did have many happy moments. We both have kids, and he would love all of us hanging out together like to a park or a movie or whatever the kids wanted to do. One Saturday morning we were talking and i was telling him how I wanted to go see a moviee with him. He said i could go alone or with my kid, but i told him i wanted to specifically go with him. So that turned into an argument, He ended up showing up to the movie. No kiss, no hug. He just sat there next to me. After the movie he asked if I was hungry, I said no. He said he was and that he was gonna grab something to eat and that he would call me later. I was like,”I guess you don’t want me to be there with you, so whatever.” He got upset and walked away. I felt bad and followed him to apologize, but instead of it getting all fixed he got more mad and just left me standing there and i felt like an idiot. After that we didn’t talk for a week, After that week he texted me telling me how we couldn’t be together althought i was a “wonderful women”. He said he couldn’t make me happy becasue he wasn’t happy. I didn’t understand what had happened. I mean it was a stupid fight. And we didn’t have a bad relationship. I kept trying to find out what the reason for this all was and he just tells me to leave him alone. All i want is answers and at least some kind of respect for him to tell me this in person or at least a phone call. I don’t understand what i should do or how this could be settled for my sake. He avoids me at all costs. He avoids any kind of talk. I asked if he loves me and there’s never any kind of responce to that, but I know he does because he’s told me he does on different occassions. Should I keep pursuing him, is there any hope? Should i just let it go somehow? But i really love him and miss him and just want to be with him.

  164.  #164Karen on April 8, 2011 at 7:00 am

    Reading your email brought back so many memories and feelings about various moments with my toxic ex-boyfriend. The best advice is to follow Rori’s tools. Do not lean forward. If he is toxic and can change, Rori’s communication skills will help you. I tried using them with my ex-boyfriend..expressing in feeling messages how it felt to be ignored etc. but he was not able to step up to the plate and I had to walk away after almost 3 years. A rational caring man would not come to the movie and not say hi. My ex used to behave that way frequently and like you, I used to try hard to “fix” the situation and make everything okay only for him to walk away angrier- just like what happened to you.

    Lean back- focus on yourself, your kids. If he comes back- express your feelings to him without blaming him and see what happens. In the meantime, circular date. It took me close to a year to get that going but now that it is, my self esteem is really improving. Having that high self esteem will help you not take crap anymore! Good luck!

  165.  #165Tina on May 5, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    Hi ELda,
    I agree with Keren. My ex-boyfriend and I also broke off 3 weeks ago. Out of the sudden. After 1 year dating. I have a son and he does not. It got very serious which I loved but he got cold feets. It took me until last week to get over him. Of course you feel sad and down and miss him. It is all human. We are not robots. I think about him a lot too and was very close to contact him. Rory;s book and CD programs helped me a lot…I listen over and over again. every time I find something new.
    Well, I know that I am the prize and that if he is really interested and loves me and wants me he knows how to find me.
    He did not make any attempts in this months since it is over to contact me. In contrary whenever I go to facebook and he is online he signs off after a few minutes. It hurt me . However I keep focusing on my way and try to stay on the horse and not to get away from the path. I went even on 2 dates last week with 2 different guys. Nothing special but in those moments I felts special as they gave me all the attention I needed. Saying all the beautiful things I wnated to hear.
    Of course I also have this little hope that he will come back with an happy ending however I am working on myself to focus on my future.
    I started palying tennis 2 week , signed up for Pilates etc.
    Good luck and wish you good energy.

  166.  #166Heidi on May 14, 2011 at 6:56 pm

    I am glad I found this site. I have been going through a similar situation but I have already made the mistake of having the talk and doing the begging. I am now at the point that I have to stop and try another way. My way was certainly not successful and I think it hurt me even more.

  167.  #167Yellowishbrown on June 9, 2012 at 9:39 pm

    I just wanted to vent for a moment. It’s Saturday night and I’m trying to convince myself not to give into a recent break up. All along I knew he and I weren’t connecting exactly how things should be but I just couldn’t put my finger on the exact issue.
    First, let me explain some history with this guy. We worked together for four months before we went out. I was intriuged by him but not eager to purse him. I dropped some hints every now and then about being single and asked him to hook me up but he said he didn’t know any single men. What I later learned was that he was dating another women on the job and I honestly had no clue they were seeing each other. Our job has that “no dating employee’s” policy so they really kept it on the low. Nevertheless, he told me that he had ended things with her months before I arrived on the job and that they had agreed to go their separate ways. I thought that would be difficult to continue to date someone that you were recently involved with but I shook it off with, “they just weren’t meant to be together” boy was that the wrong thing to think. OMG he and I dated for five months, he never would commit to being more than a friend with benefits the entire time. He played the “its not you its me card” he also told me he didn’t really want to be with anyone right now but himself. So this is what happened. I removed myself from the problem. I worked with him but did not see him outside of work. I refused to take his calls and I only returned his call if it was work related. When I did that I found out that I was pregnant. Yep, I said it. Took five test to make sure I wasn’t crazy. When I called to tell him the news he blew a head gasket and freaked out. He took off work for four days and just left me high and dry. I was devasted. Like mentally and emotionally not all there. I have two grown kids and a grandchild. Me, having a baby at my age was not in my plans. I miscarried about two weeks later. I didn’t say anything to him at first but then I did fill him in once I came from the Doctor’s office. He was so bitter and angry about me getting pregnant as if I did it by myself or something. We left each other apart for about a month. I thought to myself, this is crazy, I like him and he likes me but we’re just not meshing. You want to know why things never got on track, he was still seeing her. Yes, I said it. I happen to go over to his house one night to speak with him about “us” and thats when the feces hit the fan. She was there they were having an intimate dinner and he told me he would not ever leave her alone. I walked away. Now, we all worked together so this was going to be very odd. She quit the next day. He told me that we couldn’t see each other and that he was just going to be single. The nerve of him to tell me that I should stay away from him when he pursued me through this mess. I let go! I moved on and I just did not allow for the anger and bitterness to evolve into hatered. Two months went by and he and I just worked together. Then one day he appeared at my door step with all these sorries and forgive me’s and it was his fault for being selfish, blah blah blah…it sounded good, no it sounded great. I had never let him go in my heart and mind. I lost 15 lbs over this break up and miscarriage. It was devistating to the 100th degree. He told me that he wanted me in his life and he wanted to only be with me and not her. The story continues with we dated for another five months and I turned to him and asked him what was I doing in his life? He said, “I don’t know” I changed my number, blocked his emails, and wrote him off that day. He no longer works with me so that was helpful to not have to go into work and see him. But this was just one week ago that I had this ah’haa moment and understood that he was content with me being his girlfriend by default and that he never had any intentions on progressing the situation any further. Oh yeah, he mentioned to me durning some pillow talk that he could see us married in 4-7 years. Men say anything don’t they? I know what that means even in women lango. It means he wants me to hang around for that duration and pretend to be wifey but without the legality and long givity. He wants his cake and eat it to, which was clearly displayed by him dating two women on the same job for nearly five months. Writing this down and waiting for people to respond makes me feel as if I should have known better but I can honestly say I didn’t. It felt right. I thought he was a changed man when the smoke cleared from the “cheater’s video” (when he got busted with her over his house) He has no respect for women or himself when it comes to feelings. He’s been known to break dates with me and cancel last minute. He even tells me that I should date other men because we’re not married. I fell in love with the thought of being his wife. I wanted to show the other girl that he loved me more and prove to her that what he and I had wasn’t a fling or just sexual it was magical. It was demonic is what it was, some black magic or voodoo…that is not love, matter of fact that isn’t even like. You shouldn’t never be able to treat another person so non-chalantly if you care so much about them. It just hurt to know end to think that I wanted to be his all and he wanted to be my right now. I tried so hard to prove myself and show him I’m worthy of being his wife that he would act right for a week or two and then go back to being unwilling to fully commit. He told me that we were in a part time relationship. Yep, I said it. He said that I was his girlfriend and he wasn’t seeing anyone else but that he still wanted time for his friends and family and the other time was for me. Hopefully we would eventually reach the full time status but he was content with where thing were. Red flag,,, no he was the entire red flag company. He then proceeded to tell me that he didn’t see me in his future and that he liked me a whole lot but it wasn’t love. The man needs some help and I just had more than my share of trying to stroke his ego that I just threw my hands up and walked away. Like I said, it’s only been one week since I changed my number and blocked his emails but I miss that man sooooooo much it’s a shame. I just want to slap some sense into him. “I’m the one, I’m the one!” When all along he’s been saying, “no you’re not, believe me, you’re not!” Who wants to hear that let alone listen to it? I heard him loud and clear last week and that’s why I’m on here. Trying to receive feedback and support. Trying not to burn bridges with my friends who saw through his b/s and still tried to support my relationship. I cannot love a rock. It doesn’t love back. That’s my analogy for him. It hurts to want something so badly but be told that you will burn your fingers if you touch that….first degree, second degree or third degree burns would be my question….see how messed up my mind is over him? I’m getting better with the help of Rori and her post but I’m seriously considering getting some couch time with someone because it’s just not leaving me fast enough. I’ve gotten over other men in hours but this one, I am having the worse time shaking him off….it like he’s in my blood system or something. I want him out. He doesn’t deserve me and who I am. I told him once that I was more then what’s between my legs. I was a hole person and not a slice of pie. Take the entire pie or you just don’t get to keep slicing me into here and there whenever you feel like having something sweet. If this were my girlfriend, I would tell her to run for the hills from that man but since it’s me, I’m having a hard time crawling to the hills let alone running towards them.
    If anyone has a response to this, I would certainly welcome it. I just need to be okay with not being his choice. Because I am the prize and I am all that, just not for him….

  168.  #168Rori Raye on June 10, 2012 at 9:27 am

    YellowishBrown – Welcome, and thank you for your story. What I always say is this…if you are so tied up into a man that you are forfeiting your life, and need to put all this energy into thinking about him and writing about him and struggling against him – please get professional help. If you can’t do this yourself – by learning to meditate, reading books and listening to tapes on stress reduction, guided self-imagery, getting past obsessions, going to groups like CODA and to church groups where you can get some support – hire a professional who has a track record with this kind of self-torment to help you. Basically – WORKING to actively heal yourself is the only thing, there.. This is your job to do. This man is entirely irrelevant. Focusing on how he works is just a smoke screen you’re putting up to keep from looking at what’s going on inside YOU, and how you can improve that for yourself. Love, Rori

  169.  #169Karen on June 10, 2012 at 6:35 pm

    Hi, I have been trying to get help with my situation but maybe I’m posting incorrectly. My fiancé has disappeared from my life due to depression 2 weeks ago. He has done the same to close family, friends, and clients. They want to do an intervention and hospitalize him. That’s how bad things are for him. I am wearing the ring still telling people who ask that our plans are on hold. Should I be involved in this? Stay loyal and help or offer help from a distance and keep living my life? I have a son who needs me, work and I need to function. I love him and his kids but I’m on hold from dating etc. I don’t know what I’m supposed to do here. his family and best friends call me daily to help them help him yet I’m so angry for him disappearing on us. How do I proceed here and stay sane myself?

  170.  #170Desi on January 1, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    I would like some advice as someone who read this blog post and some of the articles on this subject 2 days too late.

    I have been dating a guy for 19 months. We met in high school nd dated briefly and re-connected 17 years later when I became separated. Our relationship started again through the worst point in both of our lives – he lost his job a few months in and still hasn’t found anything and my seperated husband died making me a widow and causing much grief for my children and I, not to mention anger in me – all the stages of grief. To say there was much stress on each of us and our relationship is an understatement – there are obviously even more not mentioned here.

    But we are in love. Still in love I think very much I am very positive we were meant to be together. Yet he dumped me a few weeks ago. He doesnt have his life together and feels I am selfish and don’t treat him well. Maybe sometimes I am, sometimes we all are I think. Anyway I let it sit. It was driving me crazy there was some very sporadic texting but then he stopped responding to me. It was making me feel so crazy. Its not like we talked it over he just told me he couldn’t do it anymore and since we were not in a private place nothing further was said and I wasn’t sure if it was seriously over or why or what. So I went to his place and we had it out. Not a fight. No screaming but he said he can’t do it anymore but told me he still loves me and I am the most beautiful woman and maybe one day…

    Anyway at the end I broke down and balled and asked him to please please please not throw it all away and to give me one more chance. Begging and crying really with no control. Well its been a very tought year and that is absolutely not my style at all but I am at a very low point. I tried to text him and really push an advantage for another try and then went back to his place yesterday. it went very bad he would not even open the oor he asked me to leave he said i was ruining things. I did leave an texted i would not bother him anymore and wished him the best in the coming new year.

    There was this hope that maybe we will have another chance one day in the future which we discussed. Have I ruined it all now? How can I best repair this damage in order to restore his opinion of me and re-attract him or remind him how much in love we have been. What to do when you have already gone past that point of going to his house and spazzing out and lowering his opinion of you.

    Please help!!

  171.  #171Rori Raye on January 2, 2013 at 10:40 am

    Desi – You’re not going to like this – it’s going to be tough – please don’t read if you’re not up for the truth I see: To me, from your letter, you seem like a person who’s totally and utterly unaware of things. Of how you seem to others, how others are feeling. You let your emotions lead you around – even when they mean bulldozing another person – here this man who, it sounds, has been nothing but upfront with you. He’s been clear that he feels overwhelmed by you – and the way you describe your actions – I imagine most ANYONE would feel overwhelmed by you. And – this is NOT your fault!!! You need help. Some coaching or counseling to get over the death of your husband and the unresolved feelings of that relationship. You need to see your nearly addictive behavior toward this new man for what it is, and learn to bear the feelings you have inside that are pushing you to think the way you think and do what you do.

    It’s not about “ruining” things – it’s about being a partner in the way a man needs. This may not be the right man for you in the first place – but as long as you think “pushing” is the way to go – you will always be overwhelming men. If a man says you don’t treat him well – it would be a great idea to begin understanding what that means to him – and how you can own those parts of you that create that feeling in him so you can learn to do the opposite – to create a space where a man feels safe, completely. Love, Rori

  172.  #172Desi on January 2, 2013 at 7:55 pm

    Thanks for taking the time to respond Rori. Its funny considering I only wrote a few paragraphs but you are right about many things you said to me. I am seeing a counsellor right now … just once per month for the past few months to deal with some of my issues of my husband’s death. We were separated for 3 years when I reconnected with my new man but were still close and it was very difficult when he died.

    I wonder though why you would think “anyone” would be overwhelmed by me based on what I wrote? I think…with my boyfriend, I can agree I was pushing him for more and should have backed off on pushing the relationship before he was ready. It was like I could not seem to stop for the longest time because I wanted more…more time, more commitment, more everything. You are right it was nearly addicting…the wanting of him, the wanting more. But I had actually already begun to back off of expressing those types of things to him the past 2 months or so. Perhaps it was too late by then. And I should not have gone back and tried to push for another chance this past weekend after he said no. It wasn’t rational and I recognized it quickly afterwards. I think…because he ha kissed me so many times and told me he loved me before he said we could not try again right now that when I went home I just felt…reminded of course how good it is between us and that perhaps we could work through things together as I was acknowledging I needed to work on some things. A very poor decision going back, I agree.

    Generally, I don’t think I am pushy with my friends and family. In fact, you are probably the only person who ever actually called me pushy in my life. And so I wonder how I can really address that idea of everyone being overwhelmed by me because I feel very badly now, wondering if most people really do think I am pushy and just don’t say so.

    I already do understand why he felt I did not treat him well. I already recognize those issues and agree there are many ways I should improve. I can accept I have alot of work to do on myself. Alot. Still, I wish I honestly knew the best approach to eventually repairing the relationship I had with him once I have made some much needed progress.

    I feel my best bet is to not contact him at all while I try to become healthier emotionally, especially not in the immediate future. But I have no idea how I can ever try to approach repairing that relationship in the future.

    Again, thanks for responding to me.

  173.  #173Desi on January 2, 2013 at 9:04 pm


    I ordered the ebook and read the first 9 chapters tonight. As I can see myself in some of the examples I really am hopeful that working on the exercises in the book will be able to assist me in eventually repairing the relationship I have been in. I feel I will read this many many times. 🙂