Equality, Entitlement, Conscious Creation and the Mystery of Love

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handheart200I wrote Jason, a man who’s been posting here, and got this interesting reply:

“Rori,

Great to get your encouraging email. I am still here. I love your comments, provocative posts, and overall attitude.

If you want a ripe topic — and maybe you’ve already touched on this — I’d like to know your thoughts on equality and entitlement and how it fits in with your teaching. Basically I find chivalry to be the opposite of civility, and gender based entitlement to be the opposite of equality. I know personally, in a long term mate, I would want someone I could respect as an equal, as a peer. With no expectations of deferential treatment.

You can read more on my attitude here.

http://gonesavage.blogspot.com/2009/06/4-pillars-of-love_21.html

I also wrote about my visit to Siren Island. It is mostly in jest, as I am sure you will recognize. Mainly, I just wanted to collect the ideas that I had expressed passionately on your thread, to see if I still feel the same way months or years from now.

http://gonesavage.blogspot.com/2009/06/siren-island-nice-place-to-visit-but.html

Jason”

Here’s what I wrote back:

Jason – I need to read more on this to understand the full extent of how this works for you – but, basically – I think you’re missing an essential truth.

Science is all over the place now – (have you read “evolutional psychology”?) – but I say that men and women are wired differently, and then, cross-section-wise, men and women are individually wired differently into categories (personality tests/enneagram/astrology/matchmatrix/energy patterns…).

Some women are more logical than some men.

But, your whole “seduction” thing relies on psychology – our basic feelings of lack of self-worth and trauma-based patterns.

What I’m talking about is energy and emotion and core needs.

Women can give birth.

It’s just a whole different thing than what you men experience.

You cannot base a relationship with a woman on your version of “equality” – and you can’t align “entitlement” with “needs.”

A man, if he wants a woman with abilities to go down deep into her emotions, be raw with him – has to provide a framework for that to happen.  He has to have certain things in place.  A man has to FACILITATE.  (I spoke about this at a David DeAngelo program.)

These days, many women are out-earning men, and it throws everything off balance and automatically creates inequality.  Then, a man has to step up his masculinity in OTHER areas to compensate and keep balance.

What YOU mean by equality is open to discussion – but if you don’t understand the EMOTIONAL, IRRATIONAL component of this – the MYSTERY if you will, your trying for “equality” will backfire in your face.

You are trying to square “concept” with “mystery.”  Love doesn’t work that way.

Love is inspired.

Sex doesn’t work that way for a person who is inspired to sex through emotion rather than through the physical.

If you are physical-based, you can’t understand a person who is emotion-based.

Re: your “Pillars” – Asking a man to “provide” is often the only way a woman can bring out the masculinity in a man.

You’ve already figured out how to do that in other ways, but….

Money is the biggest breaker of relationships, and the biggest obstacle to love.

These days, no one gets away with being less than financially wise – and men get it and have it worse.

It’s about attraction. It’s about fear. About trust. About compromise, negotiation, tweaking, demonstrating and doing what’s necessary to win a girl, even when some elements don’t seem fair.

Usually, what we say we don’t like is affecting our attraction. Emotion always trumps logic – and equality, too.

Just something to think about…Rori

***Okay – I love having a man’s point of view, and I got permission from Jason to talk about this…

To have boundaries is to know what feels safe and good to you, and what doesn’t.  Often, we go with what we know.  Often, we go with what everyone else thinks we should go with.

Where do you stand on financial stability?  Is it a non-negotiable on your list, or would you be happy with a fabulous man like Jason (and he IS fabulous – go look at his picture on the links and read what he writes) who is more spiritual/emotional/contribution-based than money-based?  What’s important to YOU?

I encourage many women to throw out their idea of “success” in a man…and to find out what’s really important and necessary.  How do you feel about all this?

Love, Rori

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324 Comments

  1.  #1gina on July 2, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    I was SO excited when I showed up and there was a new post! Woo hoo. And this is a good one. The baby thing makes it all totally different. I recently went to an event about Austrian Economics, and one of the speakers mentioned the claim that women make less money than men. He pointed out that up till the 20th century, men were the providers because work required muscle strength, therefore, men were cut out for work, and women stayed home with kids. Now, work isn’t dependent on physical strength and both men and women are equal producers, and actually earn equal pay UNTIL marriage comes into the picture because women end up taking on more of the responsibilities at home, and they typically have kids to take care of. So it’s like women are equal competitors until marriage comes into the picture, and then it’s like women are running the race with a fifty pound sack on their back. So of course they aren’t gonna earn as much etc. Anyhoo, I’m not that interested in running a race with a fifty pound sack on my back. I don’t want to compete with men. I’d much rather have a man who’s willing to take responsibility for money, and I’ll make the home run nicely. I have other things I want to accomplish – books, public speaking, etc – but I want my family to come first and I don’t want my family to rely heavily on my income. ALSO – I work at a preschool and see that the mothers and the babies are being denied a HUGE blessing. It is so completely awful that these kids aren’t being raised by their momies, and I feel for the moms, too. These are not low-income families. The moms work so they can live in super big houses and have big cars. I cannot express how much they are missing out on from my point of view. I would much rather be able to RAISE my kids than try to be “equal” to my husband in terms of income.



  2.  #2gina on July 2, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    I wrote all that in a hurry. I don’t wanna come off as judgemental about moms who work. I just feel awful for infants who spend 60 + hours a week starting when they’re 5 weeks old. I feel sad for the moms bawling their eyes out on their babies’ first day of “school.” I feel bad for the 1, 2, and 3 year olds that cry for their moms all day every day, even though they’ve been coming to school since they were about 5 weeks old. If circumstances require it, fine, I get that everybody has to do what they gotta do – especially nowadays. But I feel sick about this idea of “equal.” Egalitarianism (the idea that we are “the same”) feels sick in my stomach – completely unnatural. I resent that it undermines what makes men and women unique, and what makes them work together as counterparts. It feels like an anti-woman idea to me. I’m sure that’s not how Jason means it. But to say that a woman’s value depends on how much she can be like a man sucks. Femininity is nurturing, loving, life-giving, beautiful, soft. INDIVIDUALS are free to be as masculine or feminine as they want, regardless of gender. I would love to be free to be feminine, and be able to surrender to a masculine man (in a relationship) In terms of career, I would love to make the most of the opportunity that nature has aforded me as a woman, and idealy, a “career” will happen on the side, and will be more developed later in life.



  3.  #3Katja on July 2, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    Same like me.

    And I hope I will be able to stay home and raise my daughter as long as possible (she is nine months now). But I don’t have a man anymore by my side so I will probably be forced to go to work again as soon as I can…



  4.  #4Jody on July 2, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    WOW!! When did love become about money? I agree entitlement is an ugly trait to display. But a man is a man, and a woman is a woman. I have one perfect example for Jason… If its about equality all the way, then when a woman carries the child, and is throwing up dailey, and her stomach grows till the skin is so tight, and it rips, and lets talk about swelling feet, and being so uncomfortable, you cant sleep or breathe. Jason where is the equalty in that? No matter what the situation is, nothing will ever be equal between genders. I can control a board room as well as any man, but everything I do still screams female. I dont care who makes more money, its always about give and take. Success in my opinion, is personal satisfaction.

    I personally beleave for me, I’m so soft hearted, I want a man who is strong physically and emotionally. That will treat me like a woman, and return I will honor him as a man. What I mean by that, is to appreciate our differences. My weaknesses are his strengths, and his weaknesses are my strengths. What works for me, might not work for all…



  5.  #5Tina on July 2, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    I would be happy with a fabulous man like Jason only up until the point he says , I have to pay for dinner because he considers us equals, just saying that would turn me off. I agree with Jason, a man must see a woman as his equal , then get him to pay for dinner later lol.



  6.  #6Ann on July 2, 2009 at 4:46 pm

    I haven’t read anyone’s comments yet. I read the post and went straight to notepad to write what I want so here goes.

    What’s important to me? I’m discovering the answer to that question. I want a man who wants to provide for me. By that I mean financially but I don’t mean he has to have a small fortune. I want a man who will be affectionate with me without always EXPECTING sex. I want a men who will protect me but at the same time KNOW when I need his protection.

    Most of all I want a man I can FEEL SAFE with. I want to feel safe emotionally just as much as physically safe. I want a man who doesn’t think my emotions equal drama. I want a man who doesn’t shut down or withdraw when I don’t agree with him. I want a man who isn’t afraid to speak his mind but let’s me do the same. I want a man I can feel good around but when I’m not in my best mood we will have been honest enough with each other I can feel safe saying what I need.

    I want men to be men and women to be women, to realize we have similarities but also differences. To compliment each other. I want a man who is interested in learning how women feel and think.

    Am I wanting too much? Am I wanting the unattainable?



  7.  #7cookie on July 2, 2009 at 5:31 pm

    i feel a little weird asking this but katja i just read that you were without a man? really? what happened? the last comment i specifically remember by you sounded like your relationship was getting better. I feel really concerned.



  8.  #8Erika on July 2, 2009 at 5:35 pm

    I feel grateful Rori posted this.

    And nervous about “going naked” here because others might see it as “drama.”

    But it feels important to me.

    I have so many feelings on this subject that it’s probably going to take a bunch of comments to get them all out.

    Honestly, I feel exasperated but that’s because Jason and I have been talking about this for two weeks now.

    Before I even get into my feelings about a man being a provider, I would like to clear the BS off the table here.

    The BS is the word “equality.” To me “equality” means equal contribution. So for Jason to talk about equality, he would need to be showing up right now with a six-figure income and a significant net worth.

    He’s not really talking about equality. He’s talking about asking women to pay for his plane tickets. As far as I can tell, he’s talking about the woman continuing to be the breadwinner so he can stay home to take care of kids. Not that there’s anything inherently wrong with that — it’s just not what I want. But for the sake of authenticity and clarity, let’s be honest what we’re talking about here.



  9.  #9gina on July 2, 2009 at 5:38 pm

    I was feeling all judgmental of Jason. I wanted to call him girly, and on his site, I said that if he wants a ‘peer’ he should date a dude. But then I just reread my own comment that individuals are free to be as masculine or feminine as they want. And I guess that’s what i see, without all the judgment about it. I see Jason as feminine in his approach – he seems to expect a woman to pursue him at least as much as he’s pursuing her. blech.



  10.  #10cookie on July 2, 2009 at 5:44 pm

    what do i want in a man?

    I want a man that I feel good being around. I want a man that i can share the infinite range of my emotions with and he doesn’t pacify me or trivialize them. I want a man that will build a life with me with reckless abandon, a man who is directed by his own inner strength and not on some the opinions of the outside world. I want a man that views our love and our relationship as home, everything else is outside. I want to live in a bubble of love with my man and our child(ren). I want to live in an impenetrable bubble of love that no in law, friend, job, economic disparity, tragedy, etc could destroy. I want my man to make a living that could support me, us, and ours if anything happened that prohibited me from earning money to contribute to the household. I want a man that will romance me in a zillion different ways, I want a man that will never run out of ideas to make me smile or lose the desire to see my smile daily. I want a man that i can be completely, buck naked with emotionally and physically. I want a man that understands who I am, queen and everything between, I want a man that won’t cheat on me, in any way, at any time, ever.

    I want to believe this list.



  11.  #11Erika on July 2, 2009 at 5:46 pm

    So, put in that context, I feel pissed off hearing him use the word “entitlement.” I mean, seriously, who is expressing “entitlement” in this situation, under his definition?

    I hate that word anyway. Yes, I am entitled. I am entitled to live the life of my dreams. A man doesn’t have to be rich already. I can respect and trust a man who has his financial act together and has a solid plan. I feel safe with a man who has a solid plan.

    I do not feel safe with a man who doesn’t want to face his financial issues. I wonder what other issues are not yet “handled.”

    This is what I say to a man who isn’t interested in helping me achieve the life of my dreams. I say: “I accept that you don’t want to change or give me this, and that is your prerogative. But please understand that it means we have no future. This is one of my non-negotiables.”

    And if I say no to a man because he is not interested in providing the things that would meet my emotional needs, and he then uses “logic” to argue with me, I feel really turned off.

    Jason knows that seduction, dating, and relationships have nothing to do with logic. He knows that. So why is he trying to persuade me with logic? I feel baffled.



  12.  #12Erika on July 2, 2009 at 5:52 pm

    Gina,

    That’s my intuition also. When it comes to this aspect of relationships, my sense is that he wants to play the “girl” role. Nothing wrong with that. Just means he needs to find a girl who is willing to be the “boy.” That’s not me.

    I feel sexually turned off, completely turned off, when a man expects me to pay for things. In a marriage I would contribute plenty, possibly more than he would, but on dates I will always, always want him to pay.

    I want to be a girl. Please stop trying to use “logic” to convince me to be a boy. It’s not going to happen in a million, trillion years !!! Argh!!!! I feel so f-ing frustrated.



  13.  #13gina on July 2, 2009 at 5:55 pm

    Yeah, it’s like he’s trying to seduce you into pursuing him. blech.



  14.  #14Erika on July 2, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    Here are some of the emails that I sent to him, hoping he would understand that this is a deeply emotional issue for me, and not something that is going to change:

    “I’m not willing to sacrifice my financial ease to be with a man”

    “I feel like I would be taking on a burden that would lead to constant angst and bickering. Why would I want to do that?”

    “My bottom line is I won’t marry a man unless he has demonstrated beforehand his ability and willingness to be a provider for me and our children. Nothing you say is going to change that. I told you it’s nonnegotiable. I have far more to lose in marriage than most men”

    “It’s very interesting that you would label a woman with two jobs a ‘shameless gold digger’ … I’ll tell you why she’s detaching. Why become emotionally attached to a man who doesn’t fit what she’s looking for long term and who judges her for looking out for herself and having boundaries?”

    “All right. I find equality and neutrality to be a turnoff. Feels very asexual. I like romance and chivalry and feeling like I could stay home with a baby and be provided for. I’ve always worked a steady job and I’m ready to rest and indulge my feminine energy. Of course I’ll make $ as a teacher and healer but I want to be able to relax.”

    “Even as a kid I felt like I had to be responsible because my parents weren’t. I don’t want that anymore. I want someone else to be responsible so I can relax. I accept that you are the way you are but I hope you can see why I think this would be an ongoing source of unhappiness for me/us and why I’m not willing to take that on”

    “Teach and heal and travel with baby, yes. But I’d want to do this with someone who has empowering beliefs about money so I can relax. So I don’t have to think about money or compensate for his lack of money. I swore long ago never to struggle with money. It’s too stressful ”

    “We might be too similar. I agree that happiness is a choice. I choose not to have any unsecured debt or unpaid bills so that I will have peace of mind. I choose to be able to afford whatever I want and need. I want a mate who has equal ease about money. Debt = burden in my book”

    “I feel ease with surplus. I don’t feel ease with debt and I don’t feel ease with ‘can’t afford’

    ‘can’t afford’ = paralysis”

    “I accept that you don’t want to change. Please understand tho that as long as u continue to say ‘can’t / won’t afford to visit’ me, I will see your romantic intentions as insincere “



  15.  #15gina on July 2, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    That word…”entitled.” The guy ASKS ME on a date with hopes of penetrating my body with his bigger stronger (hopefully) body, which could result in me carrying his child, which I would then bare primary responsibility for, and he’s pissy about having to pay for a meal?? double blech. I WOULD RATHER PAY FOR MY OWN MEAL AND ENJOY IT BY MYSELF.



  16.  #16Erika on July 2, 2009 at 6:03 pm

    Yeah, I accept that he wants what he wants. But that’s not what I want. And I’m not going to settle. So we can be friends. We can have a wonderful platonic friendship.



  17.  #17gina on July 2, 2009 at 6:04 pm

    That’s all he’s offering.



  18.  #18Erika on July 2, 2009 at 6:06 pm

    Gina,

    I’m with you. The energy feels really icky to me also. Really icky.

    I would rather be single for the rest of my life than be expected to be the “man” in a relationship. Yucky.

    I feel so sensual and turned on when a man is willing to be chivalrous to me. I don’t f-ing care if it’s $5 burritos and beers. It’s the energy and the gesture and the caring about what matters to me that turns me on.

    I want to be able to melt in my man’s arms and know that he has everything handled. He’s a strong, secure resting place. I bring so much to the table that, honestly, this seems like very little to ask.

    I want him to open jars and be good with computers and business/marketing stuff so he can help me where I’m less strong. I want to contribute in lots of other ways that feel feminine to me.



  19.  #19Erika on July 2, 2009 at 6:09 pm

    Yeah, I guess that’s what I’m wondering — what are you offering? I already have lots of wonderful relationships and friendships that fulfill my needs for companionship and intellectual debate. I don’t need to be supporting a man to have those needs fulfilled.

    I want a MAN. I want to feel sexy around him all the time. I want him to have things handled and be gently dominant in the “boy” areas of life so that I can surrender to him sexually. That is what excites me and turns me on.



  20.  #20gina on July 2, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    Totally. I love feeling cared for by a man.



  21.  #21lusCious on July 2, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    Hi everyone, I feel so cocooned and safe to be here.

    I feel comfortable and humbled and inspired by the whole concept of evolutionary psychology.

    The primitive, ‘reptilian’ brain that is in ALL of us…
    that chemical (brain chemicals, including hormones!!- that well and truly drive us) and physiological nuts and bolts of fear, fight-or-flight, territory, hierarchy, and pleasure.

    plus

    The emotional, ‘mammalian’ brain that is in us humans, and i believe our furry beloved pets, and i digress. The part of us that feels, that wants to nest, to love, to create, to give, to share, to emote, to receive, to cry, to laugh, to blabber, to hug, to kiss and to scream and yell..

    and the ‘higher’ cognitive functions that helps us with our daily computing of information that is all around us, the choices we make, the boundaries we set, the doors we leave open, the walls we build, the conscious choices we make…our logical sensible selves.

    All simultaneously exist at once and how do we learn to feel comfortable with all these seemingly disparate perceptions of the world around us? Why do we seek to get to a point where we would feel like we have arrived and made perfect, balanced sense of everything?
    to what extent can we use our logical, ‘share equally’ cognitive brain, to control our messy, beautiful, scary, magnificent and primitive, emotional selves??

    Life is so beautiful because it feels so messy. The little moments where we catch ourselves feeling uncomfortable, angry, ugly, and human….these moments, followed by a feeling of unconditional love and freedom we give ourselves to feel all these things in our bodies…which gives way to a feeling of expansion and wellness, from which bubbles forth our feelings of acceptance of people around us…men or woemn, masculine or feminine or half-and half ;P…

    this is what it’s all about….and I feel so grateful to have found you, rori, and this site and everyone on it…



  22.  #22Erika on July 2, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    And I want to point out that there may well be a woman who has different priorities who would LOVE this arrangement. She might say “this is my perfect man because I want to be the provider. I want someone to take care of things at home so I can work.”

    It’s just NOT me.



  23.  #23gina on July 2, 2009 at 6:22 pm

    I want to feel safe to surrender sexually. But I also feel, that by raising his children, I’m surrendering at least some of my power in the world so that I can take nurture a family. I want to feel safe surrendering my power. I want to know that my man wants to provide and that it’s integral to his identity as a Man. I also want to reach a more complete stage of ‘maturity’ with a man. What I mean is: if I stay single, I don’t believe I’ll be as fully “grown up” as I would be if I took on a family. I want a man who is ready and willing to fully step into adulthood. The chivalry is symbolic. Maybe there is something for me as a woman to consider about what the men expect for us to “offer” on dates. I mean if a man is doing the gentlemanly thing by paying for a date and opening doors, etc, I do want to be aware of of whether I am being “a lady.” I don’t mean to give myself a sense of obligation or anything, but it gives me the impression that it is almost rude to be masculine by going on about political opinions, etc. Maybe “rude” isn’t what i want to call it. I intend to embody femininity when with a man who is offering masculinity. I will challenge myself to be feminine with a man who isn’t.



  24.  #24Jody on July 2, 2009 at 6:31 pm

    Gina, Ericka, Tina, Ann, Cookie,

    U ladies rock!! my opinion, when a man pays, and opens a door for me, or gets my coat, or chair! To me it shows he respects that Im a woman, and not a man! I have no problem with treating once in awhile, but its because I want to. I dont want a house husband! Im not saying be the only income, but a man that works has a purpose. I want to know that I have a someone to depend on. I could never be with a man I had to support. I never had anyone take care of me, My husband of 17 yrs might have worked, but he had no problem, calling off when ever, staying home and do nothing, having me beg for money to pay bills, or money to take care of our 5 boys. I will never let that happen to me again!!!!!!!!



  25.  #25Erika on July 2, 2009 at 6:35 pm

    Gina,

    I’m with you completely. “Chivalry is symbolic.”

    That’s why I say it’s not about the money. It doesn’t matter if it’s a five-star restaurant or five dollar burritos. It’s that he steps up and happily pays the bill. It is his gesture of manhood.

    I may end up bringing more financially to marriage than my husband, and that’s ok. As long as he has a solid plan and a drive and an ambition and dedication to having money handled in his life and being a provider.

    I agree with you. There’s a vulnerability in bearing a man’s child, a deep surrendering. And I want a man who can hold me, a man I feel safe having that deep of vulnerability with.

    What I’m “offering” on dates is not the same as what a man is offering. I’m offering my presence and femininity, my fun and flirtation, and if he is the One, my full surrender.



  26.  #26lusCious on July 2, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    Hi Ann I just read your post and I just love it….
    masculinity and femininity is part of a whole spectrum…
    our feminine selves want to feel cherished and supported in feeling understood, accepted, safe, beautiful and loved…which in turn inspires us in loving and nurturing our children and ourselves.
    And in feeling loved and safe we feel open and allow our men in where we are their ‘harbour’, their ‘island’ to ‘crash’ on…
    so the masculine is driven, and inspired to, in short, make us happy…
    .it all comes full circle, and there’s no right or wrong place where this process begins or ends, no giving to get, no “you have to give this before i give that’…
    i heard this once from a person who essentially said ‘ if there were no women in the world, men wouldn’t be learning to whistle beautifully (some never quite get there, but 100 points for effort!!), to write poems, and building taj mahals…’

    and isn’t it wonderful how Jason has crashed on this siren island, with all his ideals and ideas and his perceptions of the world…how this very siren island has, in spite of his seemingly ‘different’ views, drawn him in to engage?



  27.  #27Erika on July 2, 2009 at 6:41 pm

    lusCious,

    fascinating … and if I may indulge a deeper intuition I have about J, which may or may not be right …

    I don’t actually think he’ll be satisfied with a woman who’s willing to be the provider. I sense a deep longing in him to develop his masculine energies on the financial front. To get the financial side of his life handled so that he can be a provider. Which won’t happen as long as women are stepping into the fray to support him.

    All the more reason for me to say “no f-ing way.” In my very feminine, sweet way 😉



  28.  #28Erika on July 2, 2009 at 6:51 pm

    Ann, this is so beautiful and speaks so deeply to my heart. Thank you

    “Most of all I want a man I can FEEL SAFE with. I want to feel safe emotionally just as much as physically safe. I want a man who doesn’t think my emotions equal drama. I want a man who doesn’t shut down or withdraw when I don’t agree with him. I want a man who isn’t afraid to speak his mind but let’s me do the same. I want a man I can feel good around but when I’m not in my best mood we will have been honest enough with each other I can feel safe saying what I need.”



  29.  #29Ann on July 2, 2009 at 7:25 pm

    Thank you lusCious & Erika I’m learning how to say what I want. I’ve often heard a man wants to feel safe around a women. I’ve realized I want to feel safe around a man.

    I don’t feel safe if I can’t be me. If I can’t cry when I feel I need to, I don’t feel safe. If I can’t say I feel so angry at what was just said to me or that was really uncalled for, I don’t feel safe. If I can’t say I wish someone would just hug me, I don’t feel safe.

    I want to feel safe enough around a man that even in my MOST ANGRY state I might say “YOU SORRY ASSHOLE.” And him not withdraw but simply say something along the lines ” Boy you’re angry now. I don’t like being called names. I’ll be back in a bit, right now I’ll give you time to deal with your anger.” And contact me in a bit to see if I’m ready to discuss the issue with him. I don’t feel like that scenario is making a man less a man or degrading my feminine side.

    I don’t feel I’m asking for too much. I want the men in my life to man up. Remember how to treat women. I know all women aren’t feminine or trying to be that’s their choice.

    Men need to be men around women. Open doors, pay on dates, remember their manners. Know the female standing in your presence “would you tell that filthy joke in front of your mother?” Did you forget the words excuse me when you left home?

    Before any guys says women need to do this, that or the other. I’m only speaking for me and I’m doing my best to be more appreciative and respectful of guys but it’s a 2 way street. I don’t know how many guys read this blog but fellows you have alot of women telling what they’re looking for in a man. Learn from it, and I DON”T mean learn how to better pick up woman better. I’m saying listen remember how to treat women. Know the women in your life.

    I’m just giving my 2 cents on what I’m looking for and I don’t feel I’m the only female looking for these things.



  30.  #30gina on July 2, 2009 at 7:41 pm

    my sense is that in the PUA community, guys are looking for a sense of power when dealing with women. Instead of embracing true masculinity (taking care of women), they learn to be playboys (taking advantage of women). That approach makes me feel mad and yucky. I’m not sure how to articulate the connection yet, but it comes as no surprise to me that a former PUA would be lacking in chivalry. Well, now that i think of it, I see that in the PUA, chivalry is considered considered “choad” behavior. Plus the whole name of the game is to invalidate women so that women have no “power” over the men. I guess if he’s “serving” a woman, it goes against what he’s learned as a PUA. When it comes to forming a substantial bond, the principles of PUA don’t translate – that’s my impression so far.
    However, I can respect that he realized that PUA fell short of true masculinity.



  31.  #31Marplot on July 2, 2009 at 7:48 pm

    I sorta feel like if a man and woman are not planning on having kids then the equality format would probably work out well as long as they didn’t focus on keeping score too much.

    However, I’m sorta curious as how it would work during pregnacy since the man could not carry 1/2 the kid.

    In the tradditional relationship. Men usually pay for dinners and dates while women tend to pay for birth control (the pill which is about $30 a month– the sponge is about $17 for 3 sponges condoms are about a $1 each), gynocology visits (depend if you have insurance), make up, beauty care, clothes (cost varies) in order to attract a man or to have good reproductive health.

    However a new type of relationship seems to be emerging. Men are starting to pay more on making themselves look good by getting wax jobs and are spending money on good clothes and manicures. However, they still don’t pay as much money as women do on beauty care. However, more and more men these days are wearing makeup so that may change in the future.

    So I guess this type of relationship could work well if neither the man or the woman wears make up but both do the same level of beauty care (waxing), they split birth control/reproductive cost, and they both do not have childern/ adopt.

    Currently I do not want childern and I don’t wear makeup and the men I have dated usually are just as strong as I am. However, I usally end up being the one paying for most of the dates since I’m in college and I’m usually the only one with a car and kitchen full of food. However, they guys I’m dating usually make up for it by helping me to clean my house. They also make good therapist for when I have my panic attacks.

    If I do have kids, I want the guy to be the one who stays home- I’ve tried babysitting and I like working in an office much better- kids are too stressful for me to handle.

    I sorta believe that marriage and commentment is just an illusion of safety this days. Its true that they give protection, but often not as much as I once thought. I only feel safe when I can depend on myself because that is the only person I can depend on 90% of they time (I do mess up sometimes…ok a lot). I like backups and plans Bs. And I do like have a net work of many people to support me.

    Then again I haven’t had a relationship last more than 1/2 a year beacuse I chase men so …………. I sorta suck at love.



  32.  #32Chanel on July 2, 2009 at 8:19 pm

    Jason,

    Once you have a kid, all this will go out the window.

    Your wife will be breastfeeding every two hours and changing diapers in between. If she has any complications at ALL with childbirth, she won’t even be able to move.

    It will be YOUR job to be the MAN. To take care and provide for your family.

    If you want a good start for your kid, you may decide there should be a stay-at-home parent in the first years, especially if you plan on having more than one child. It makes no sense for mommy to go back to work. She’s supposed to breastfeed and may get pregnant again if you want your kid to have a sibling.

    If you were in nature, your wife would be breastfeeding and taking care of the kid… and she’d be extremely HUNGRY, and you’d be out there getting food for your family. THIS IS YOUR JOB.

    When a woman sees if you can get her a meal, she is testing YOU to see if you can do your job.

    You’re the one failing the test here.

    To come back to dating. If the girl likes you, she has already probably spent $100 on a new outfit, hair and possibly shoes for the date. So you can shell out some dough for the food.

    None of this is equal or fair. My body has irreparable damage from having a child. Up until 150 years ago the leading cause of death for women was childbirth. I suffered a major step back in my career when I stayed at home with my kid. I also made no retirement money during that time. My ex husband squandered his, so it’s all gone.

    Talk to me about equality when you have a kid… seriously until you have a family, you’re still just a kid yourself.



  33.  #33Chanel on July 2, 2009 at 8:22 pm

    It’s alarming to me that society is taking a turn where NOBODY wants to take responsibility for family anymore.

    This cannot be good.



  34.  #34Chanel on July 2, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    Oh sorry… “I feel alarmed”

    LMAO!



  35.  #35Chanel on July 2, 2009 at 8:33 pm

    As a side note, although it kind of fits here actually, since I’m in my 40s, I’m dating guys who are in their late 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s.

    I’m encountering men like Jason who are in their late 40s and 50s, who never settled down. They have spent their entire lives being bachelors, even players. They kind of got addicted to chasing new women and never settled down.

    Some of them have been self-admitted players who have the seduction game down pat. They have messed women up and they know it.

    All this to say is that these men are now looking around at their peers who are married with children and more fulfilled. They are realizing that their lives are EMPTY.

    I’ve dated 5 guys like this and asked a lot of questions.

    So it’s interesting to me, that after years of chasing women and dumping them. After years of messing with women and hurting people, they are realizing that in the end THEY HAVE HURT THEMSELVES!

    Because now, even though they desperately want to settle down and have a family, they’re realizing they DON’T KNOW HOW to do the committed relationship and that they are addicted to their lifestyle. It’s much more difficult to change from a “me first” attitude in your 40s and 50s than it is when you are younger…

    Ain’t Karma a bitch?



  36.  #36Ann on July 2, 2009 at 8:37 pm

    LOL Chanel Karma is most definately a bitch.



  37.  #37gina on July 2, 2009 at 8:44 pm

    Chanel,
    You said it sistah. Hallelujah! and Amen!



  38.  #38Chanel on July 2, 2009 at 8:46 pm

    I actually feel bad for two of these guys.

    One actually calls himself a “former player”, he explained to me some of his tricks. He’s 42. He told me right off the bat he didn’t want a relationship, so we only went on one date. He tells women this up front because he’s broken a lot of hearts and feels bad about it.

    He’s a gorgeous guy. He got really good at seducing women and he got addicted to it. He failed two marriages because of his lifestyle.

    He feels an enormous amount of guilt towards the women he has hurt in his life. He feels a lot of grief over never having had any children.

    The last older player I went out with is 50 years old. Same deal, he is very much a chaser. I went on two dates with him and noticed him checking out other women in the room. It was like a compulsion. Needless to say, there wasn’t a third date.

    Also, I noticed he was very hesitant to pick up the check (lol!). He was stingy with drinks.

    This guy told me he’s still trying to “meet someone” and start a family. He feels like a total failure because he never was able to get married and have kids.

    So I look at these seduction websites where men are telling other men how to pick up tons of women and chase tail and I wonder if they’re realizing that they are basically teaching men to shoot themselves in the foot, because in the end, these guys are not winners.



  39.  #39Chanel on July 2, 2009 at 8:50 pm

    LOL! Amen. :p



  40.  #40lila on July 2, 2009 at 10:25 pm

    i take issue with erika’s comments.

    erika, you state:

    “And if I say no to a man because he is not interested in providing the things that would meet my emotional needs”

    it sounds like you are talking about material needs more than emotional needs.

    As Rori mentions & basing this solely on his writings, he seems to have a remarkably inspired & admirable spiritual/emotional contribution.

    i personally consider it an incredibly difficult balance, devoting energy to both the spiritual versus material. the beauty of partnership, in my view, is to allow for the parnters to distribute resources as efficiently as possible…if one has higher earning potential, and one has highly attuned emotional awareness & they contribute evenly, i consider this an equal exchange, despite the societally-imposed gender ideals.

    seems a narrow definition, though one highly prevalant in a material-oriented society such as ours, to say earnings are only valuable in the material realm.

    i have dated all types of men. materially wealty & spiritually wealthy & sometimes both. regardless of where we are at presently, potential is unlimited.

    i enjoy the process of developing potential. which means i will be working on one or both of these at any moment in time…with “results”, or external representation, waning & waxing.

    i place a high value to the attention & awareness that a person brings to the process of meeting their potential…this is what inspires me most & i find it very, very rewarding to have a partner who inspires me to the next level. For example, observing someone attempting their first steps after suffering a spinal chord injury, though not as glamorous as affording dinner at Pastis, is a far more invigorating example of human potential.

    So, be it material or spiritual, its more about the energy they put into the world & how they express & conribute.

    Whether they love providing money & dinners, or emotional support, or guidance or nurturing my children – as long as the provide with purity, passion and deep attention & awareness.

    as i write this, frankly, i find the comment about a guy needing to pay, appalling. if you are choosing the future father of your child, or the co-collaborator of creative endeavor…i can pay my own way, if need…its just money. the qualites that make a truly appealing man (or a person) to me are much rarer than a fat wallet.

    Not sure the dali lama can pay for my dinner, but i would be happy to share a meal & cover it with my own funds.

    i have had enough dates with, forgive my opinion, crass investment bankers who could paid for dinner at the “best restaurants in the world”. the food was good, the company nauseating.

    i would rather eat a sandwich in the park with someone i love.

    if the expectation is men should pay, men will only develop themselves materially. my expectation of a man is not to provide to me solely, but also the community. are they kind, are they contributing to the betterment of the world, my family. I really want more from a man, men in general, than buying me dinner or paying the mortgage.

    And I would like to be continutally contributing, as well – can i help him do this more effectively, and how does he support me in doing this more effectively. My bottom line.



  41.  #41alias girl on July 2, 2009 at 10:40 pm

    i feel dedicated to being true to myself in any given moment. any time i have not done that i have felt less than. if i do not fit in, so be it. if people call me crazy or any other such negative things, so be it.

    i feel good to experiment with what feels best for me in any given moment and make adjustments based on my results.

    currently i am being more aggressive with men. all my life i have held this part of me back. i feel tired of doing it. ah, my correction. aggressive is not the corrext word. not even assertive is the right word. HONEST is the word i am looking for.

    let the whole world burn in envy and spitefulness for all i care. i am tired of not shining. i am tired of pretending i can’t read people’s energy they are putting out. i am calling things as i see them.

    i have been friendless all my damn life because my loyalty was to my safety and my experimenting and my authenticity. however i have not been honest. i have been SILENT.

    i have a big grand feeling my silence has ended and that i will draw true people towards me who love me for who i am.

    i feel good to be in the grace of truth and on the quest and journey of authentic and blissful expansion .

    my truth will attract truth. my love will attract love. my authenticity will attract authenticity. this is what i believe right now in this moment. subject to change at any moment as data is continually filtering in on my fantastic experiment called life.



  42.  #42alias girl on July 2, 2009 at 10:49 pm

    re the topic:

    i don’t have any pre set ideas about any of this yet. my main concern is my CONNECTION and FEELING cared for and that my FEELINGS are taken into consideration.

    so i feel open to see how the financial aspect plays out in all this.

    i know i was talking to a man today who has asked me out several times. well not quite asked me out. he wants my number. he wants to be Friends. etc.

    i feel very uninterested. i feel he is not offering me Anything. literally. i can feel the offer of nothing and his energy of wanting to Take.

    i feel good to be cared for. to be provided for. i am guessing that will probably include financially. i feel open to experiment and see for myself what truly feels good to me.

    i do not feel good when a man feel stingy or financially withholding. so far.



  43.  #43Erika on July 2, 2009 at 11:22 pm

    “i feel very uninterested. i feel he is not offering me Anything. literally. i can feel the offer of nothing and his energy of wanting to Take.”

    Thank you for saying that so beautifully.



  44.  #44Karen on July 2, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    I have been married to a “reformed” player for 8 years and it has been hard as hell. He was 48(I was 40) when we married and the longest so called relationship (fuckbuddy) he had ever had lasted a whopping 3 years. I must admit, he really stepped up as a step-dad to my 3 children(by my ex-husband) and has been there to take them to school, appointments, performances, etc. He also disciplines them in the same way I do, tough but unconditional love. However, he never learned that women are to be respected, he never saw the need for either partner in a relationship to be faithful (because he never knew what a relationship was) and he never learned how to actually listen to anyone. He cheated on me before we were married and this hurt me badly. He also kept up a “friendship” with his most recent ex even though she put me down and told everyone who would listen that he would get tired of me and come back to her(married to another man all the time). I still don’t know why we even went through with the marriage(except that we were both needy, co-dependant and had the lowest self-esteem imaginable). We didn’t resolve the issue of his cheating and it festered. I began living in my imagination and started accusing him of doing all kinds of horrible things, from continuing to cheat to being gay and worse. I put down his lifestyle, his friends, his former lovers, everything that I could think of to hurt him back. We have fought, tried to break up, made and broken promises to each other and still, deep down, we have a real love connection that will not die. Through all this, a little at a time, he changed his attitude about marriage, got rid of all his single friends and genuinely tried to make this marriage work. He grew up so much in the last 8 years that people who knew him before I came along are baffled by his new attitudes. However, I had almost given up on feeling safe(from him cheating, from him finding someone “better” and dumping me, from his criticism over my emotions) until I discovered Rori. In less than 6 months(using her e-book and Modern Siren), I have learned how to express my emotions in ways that do not attack him and he listens to me! He has grown more as a man in this time than all the 7 ½ years before! I feel that he is now feeling safe to be with me and so I’m starting to feel safe with him because, while I’m still having trouble trusting him, I know I can trust my boundaries. I would like to say that it is possible for a player to reform, if he wants to, but I wouldn’t want anyone else to have to go through what I have.



  45.  #45heartbeat on July 3, 2009 at 12:40 am

    kudos, Erika, for staying clear on this one. And to all the other commenters! “Chivalry is symbolic” yes yes.

    No need for me to add to the discussion – veryone is saying what I feel too.

    I felt like crying – feeling alone in the realisation that I spent so many years not being provided for, raising a child on my own. A baseline of strain. I had an image come up once – of a butterfly folding, collapsed after a long flight – and the words ‘she tried so hard and now she’s exhausted’.

    Then I remembered my child’s father paid a large amount every month which helped me financially. But we were never in a relationship. I fell pregnant on the rebound after a long relationship ended.

    The gesture was removed from intimacy. I needed both (still do!).

    And I’ve had men buy me gifts and help me out (generously) in emergencies. Again, as a substitute for a real relationship. Ah – money – such an old family story…. ‘there isn’t enough money/love but hey, be grateful for what we’ve provided’.

    Wow this thread has helped that show up for me – thank you.

    Feelings are so important – feeling safe, feeling nurtured.

    My man doesn’t have much money but he manages to nurture me and provides for me in dozens of small ways. I feel cherished.



  46.  #46Terrance Thames on July 3, 2009 at 12:58 am

    I feel compelled to add my perspective on this. I have followed this blog now for a couple on weeks and I find the female perspective on her rather fascinating. IF I would have seen this blog about a year ago I probably would not have understood nor agreed with anything written here. Obviously I have grown more aware and present in this concept we call Masculinity. I also follow both Jason and Erika’s blog. I feel they are both highly intelligent and very passionate about their ideals.

    I feel like I can handle being open in here so here is where I am coming from.

    I was personally raised with the ideals that I was supposed to take care of a woman from both of my parents. I bought into it most of my life up until right before college. Right around that time (now reflecting it started much earlier) I witnessed on a consistent basis some of the most vicious attacking I, to this day, have ever seen from my mother.

    Ann: I loved your post. It actually inspired me to write this but I felt a little triggered by the comment you made about being able to say “YOU SORRY ASSHOLE” because my mom literally said stuff like that to him all the time. My Dad responded exactly as you described and it made her much worse. She would ridicule him even more as she followed him around the house, in front of us! Most of these arguements were due to money issues. He eventually shut down and my parents got divorced and then I got the burden, to this day, to be the only sibling mediator capable of communicating effectively with both of them. I now see both sides one Man (very masculine yet unaware of it) and a woman (very feminine). I cant help that if he would have not let it happen and tried to take her deeper into herself and not walk away then it might have changed things quite a bit. However, as a result of what I saw I development the judgement that my mom (I love her to death) was a gold digger. I then developed almost a sixth sense for spotting gold diggers and obviously that was a deal breaker for me. I am close to both parents still and in some ways I have to provide for my mom because she was so dependant on him as the ‘provider’ that she intially couldn’t take care of herself. Let me also say that I feel now that she wasn’t a gold digger. Instead I feel like she was desperately trying to get him to feel her instead of rationalizing her. That is how I am able to communicate with her.

    That being said in dating I still feel that inherent desire as a Man to provide for a woman. I also enjoy the aspect of allowing a woman to just “show up” and not have to worry about paying or making plans etc.. However, it to me is very important for a woman to at least offer to pay sometimes. 99% of the time I will not allow her to pay unless it is really important to her but to me that shows me that she appreciates me paying and taking care of her and providing the framework for her to be free to be as feminine as possible. She shows me appreciation where I can relate as a man. I am well aware of when she is showing me appreciation in a feminine way but to a man (me especially) it goes a long way. It gives me much more of a purpose to serve her further. The point is that I need to feel that, in Jason’s terms, ‘entitlement’ is coming from the right place. Is it coming from a place of wanting to trust me further by more showing my potential as a provider? Or is it coming from a place of wanting to take advantage of the situation because she gets a free meal. I feel like Jason is trying to screen for that BEFORE he commits. Coming from my background I can understand that too.

    Also I was talking to Hrystiyan a friend of mine about this topic and he had an interesting point. It revolves around this sense of equality. He said that equality does not exist between genders because you can not put value on certain things. For instance: I can say that I will monetary provide for a woman and she can provide the upkeep and warmth of the home. How do you put a value on what each is worth to both of us? Its a very subjective thing. How do you put a quantifiable value on having a child? You just can’t. Its priceless. The worth of one thing or one perspective could be much different to the other person. Anyways my 2 cents. I figured i would post since there seems to be a lack of men present 🙂



  47.  #47Katja on July 3, 2009 at 2:58 am

    Cookie…

    Seems you have missed my comments about two months ago… Before,my relationship with my man really was getting better and better. I could feel again his deep love for me and everything seemed to be really good. I felt very happy.

    But then something happened suddenly that threw my life into a completely new and painful and difficult direction.

    My man passed away suddenly on a saturday in april when I was visiting my parents with my daughter.
    His heart suddenly stopped beating at the age of 29 while he was lying at home on the couch.

    I feel devastated,heart-broken and terribly alone. But at the same time I feel very strong and hopeful and I know and feel that he is in a better place now.

    Its still hard to write about it. I just wanted to tell you,Cookie,because you’ve asked.

    Love and Happiness to all of you,
    Katja



  48.  #48heartbeat on July 3, 2009 at 3:02 am

    Love & hugs to you too, Katja XXXXXXXXxx



  49.  #49Katja on July 3, 2009 at 4:02 am

    Thank you so much,heartbeat…



  50.  #50Tracy on July 3, 2009 at 6:39 am

    Kadja,
    I feel really bad about what happened and i send you lots of hugs and bundles of encouragement……keep strong



  51.  #51Tracy on July 3, 2009 at 6:51 am

    I have often felt that what i really lacked in the past were boundaries…..I am a classic rescuer and a very giving person so my life evolved around others and it was never based on my need and what i really wanted…..
    I feel greatful that i am becoming more aware of myself and who i am and i feel confident that i am actually slowly developing my own boundaries…..
    I feel now that the boundaries that are ture and those which stand through must be established from my beliefs…
    Its been baby steps but i feel myself improving and i am so much happier with my life right now…
    My friends wedding was coming up soon and he needed money to finance his expenses…..as usual i started feeling bad and the need to sort out his issues and be there for him…I talked to my friend about it who discouraged me form getting involved with the arrangements and i felt that i was being mean by not doing so….when i reflect back i realise that my sorting out especially with men has always had a hidden agenda behind it……I felt the need to be appreciated and wanted and needed and so i helped but always expecting something else in return…..
    I am not expressely say it and sometimes i am oblivious….but what is really lurking behind is the my need to be needed….and so when the opportunity strikes i am so very excited and ready to start giving…yet deep down for me what i really wanted was for these men to see my needs and provide for them….
    So for now, i am stepping back and focusing on providing for me……i am working on cutting my generous as i would call it nature but only helping when i truly feel that i have no hidden intentions behind it…..
    It’s been a great realization for me and i thank all sirens on this blog for helping me come to this realization.



  52.  #52Chanel on July 3, 2009 at 6:53 am

    Hi Karen,

    I am very happy for you that you were able to help your reformed player turn into a man. The ones I’ve met were all nice guys, but you’re right, they have a blind spot when it comes to women.

    In my case, after what I’ve been through with my friends with benefits (who contacted me again, btw), when I spot one of these guys I RUN away.

    This was my FWB’s lesson to me.

    I want a man who will add to my life, not suck the life out of me.



  53.  #53Erika on July 3, 2009 at 10:18 am

    Gina,
    Actually most of the PUAs I’ve spent time with have been chivalrous with me. The more advanced guys usually “get it” about chivalry. I see PUA as a path to manhood, it’s just that many guys are still in the early stages and haven’t yet learned to give with their whole heart (rather, if they give at all, it’s “giving to get,” which we all know doesn’t work for men or women).

    A few more things that are coming up for me:

    I just talked to a girlfriend who was married for a few years (no kids) and ended up paying the guy alimony. I felt disgusted hearing that. An able bodied man accepting alimony from a woman? Blech.

    Financial abundance is a vibration created by belief systems (that’s what I believe, at least). If I’m going to team up with a guy for life, I’d like his vibration about money to be at least as high as my own, or for him to be fully committed to getting to that place. Knowing he cares about this as much as I do makes me feel SAFE. Otherwise, I’m scared his icky non-abundant vibe would drag mine down.

    I feel pretty strongly that both men and women need to be able to stand on their own two feet financially. To have a spectacular relationship requires two WHOLE people. Two people who, ideally, help each other to become even more whole and really help bring out each other’s soul purpose. I even envision a partnership where together the two make way more money than they ever could have separately. If one person doesn’t have their money issues handled, it seems like a recipe for co-dependency to me. Or, to avoid compensating for him, I’d feel compelled to keep my finances completely separate from his, and that is not my ideal of sharing a life together. It sounds way too “defensive” to me. If I’m already in a relationship with a man, what incentive does he have to get this handled? (that’s where co-dependency comes in) — that’s why I insist it be taken care of before we get in a relationship.

    Oh, and in my dating experience, men who are financially abundant usually are very chivalrous. They enjoy giving for the sake of giving. I really, really like that. I feel like a woman with a man like that. I feel feminine and cared for and relaxed.



  54.  #54Erika on July 3, 2009 at 10:42 am

    Rori,

    I *so* love this you wrote:

    “A man, if he wants a woman with abilities to go down deep into her emotions, be raw with him – has to provide a framework for that to happen. He has to have certain things in place. A man has to FACILITATE. (I spoke about this at a David DeAngelo program.)”

    What I try to help men understand is that if they want a woman who is fully in her radiant feminine energy and fully surrendering to him sexually, the man MUST provide the safe space for her to express that. Otherwise (speaking for myself at least), I’m going to find myself holding back with him. I will feel cautious and untrusting.

    For me, one non-negotiable for the guy creating that safe space and trust is that he have his finances handled. Another non-negotiable is that I be his only primary relationship. Most things are negotiable, but those two are not.



  55.  #55Lauren on July 3, 2009 at 11:06 am

    I want to feel safe with my man, and I want to see concrete tangible ongoing proof that he understands what he’s getting.

    I’m pretty, I’m (according to my man) an “amazing mother”. I’m the person he wishes his daughter (from a previous marriage) had as a mother/role-model. I’m caring, I’m strong, I’m practical, and I’m funny. I’m completely dedicated to living authentically, and in the truth. Truth about myself, truth about my man, truth about the world at large. Everything I do and everything I am reflects these things about me. When my man is with me, he gets it all. Everything he wants. A beautiful, brilliant, supportive, authentic, honest and faithful partner.

    So why would he think it was free? Why would he think he should get my whole life – my love, my trust, my energy, my body – without committing to providing for our family? To being there for me and treating me with adoration, so I can respect him as he wants to be respected? A man who wants everything for nothing is increasingly common these days, because we live in an age of sex and cohabitation without commitment. But that man can’t keep my respect. He will be left behind. Only the man who understands what he has truly won, and can lose…will be my partner for life, and receive all that I have to offer as the radiant, feminine woman that I am.

    A woman like no other…and therefore, treated like no other.



  56.  #56Simply Shannon on July 3, 2009 at 11:48 am

    I haven’t read all of the comments so I hope I’m not duplicating someone else’s words. I commented on Jason’s blog about this subject. Equality is a nice dream but it doesn’t really exist between men and women. We’re different (thank goodness!). I don’t want “equal” (I feel bored by that idea). I want complementary… strengths where I have weaknesses and vice versa.

    Expecting something in return for something you have done or given is the definition of entitlement. Doing things for me or paying my way is something a person does to please ME… not because they expect something in return. I definitely feel turned off by that. Blech. In my opinion, if you ask someone out, then you pay. If you don’t want to pay, then don’t ask me out. Simple.

    On a personal note, I made a lot more than my exhusband when we were married but the money itself wasn’t the issue. He was not financially stable and his lack of responsibility contributed to me losing respect for him. For me, financial stability is absolutely a non-negotiable. And this does NOT mean that a man must be rich. This means that you have a job and you pay your bills. Anyone might lose a job some time, but I have difficulty respecting a man who doesn’t do whatever it takes to pay his own bills. This would also be true for a man who has a family fortune and chooses to live off of his family’s money. Eck. Thinking about this issue triggers me and makes me remember how little I valued myself during my marriage. I feel disgusted and angry.



  57.  #57Simply Shannon on July 3, 2009 at 11:52 am

    Lauren: I just wanted to say wow to your post. I love, love, love everything you said. I can only pray that I can see myself one day the way that you see yourself. I’m working on it but not quite there yet. Brilliant post and so very true! Thank you for sharing! Shannon



  58.  #58Erika on July 3, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    “So why would he think it was free? Why would he think he should get my whole life – my love, my trust, my energy, my body – without committing to providing for our family? To being there for me and treating me with adoration, so I can respect him as he wants to be respected? A man who wants everything for nothing is increasingly common these days, because we live in an age of sex and cohabitation without commitment. But that man can’t keep my respect. He will be left behind. Only the man who understands what he has truly won, and can lose…will be my partner for life, and receive all that I have to offer as the radiant, feminine woman that I am.”

    Amen, Lauren.



  59.  #59Linda on July 3, 2009 at 12:51 pm

    So many comments so little time!

    Rori asks us to think about and share what we want in a man/relationship. I think for me some of my list changes. It is directly relational to our “stage” of life. What I am looking for in my primary relationship is different than what I was looking for when I married at age 20 (am now 50). Married 29 years and 2 children later, my desires are different than they once were. Not all of them mind you but lets say that I am keenly aware of differences as I look for someone to hopefully spend the rest of my life with.

    I never wanted to be equal. Have always been comfortable being feminine and the woman I am. During the years my children were young, I was so fortunate to get to stay home and raise them. Financial provision was a top priority. I was comfortable in that “role”. I accomplished much and satisfied a deep seated need in me. I am a “nuturer” and a “solver”. I liked providing a warm, inviting, comfortable, clean, orderly, be prepared, have an extra one in the pantry kind of life and home. If you have one pick up a bible and read about the virtious woman. I identify with her. Some may call that over functioning but to some degree it sprung out of who I am and how I am put together.

    My home, life and things around me were in order. My all appearances you could peer in and say… “wow I want just what she has”… but there was something missing that no matter what I did could not compensate for it lacking in my life. If this element was in my marriage I would still be there today !… Emotional and Physical, Sexual closeness with my mate.

    We had a big house, had my children and raised them, did not have to work, was respected by my peers, knew my husband was faithful to me and coming home every night… etc etc. Had the life that maybe some of you never had and desire. I had all the things that traditionally society says a woman could want except I was lonely.

    I have a decorative sign on my wall that says.”the best things in life are not things at all”…..

    So… what do I want? I would say that unlike before, my have to have list is emotionally centered. Others things remain important but just ordered differently. I have met several types of men circular dating. None have offered me what I need or an truly looking for. None have moved me… They are closed emotionally. They might have stuff, and houses, and jobs and $$$ but they are full of dead mens bones emtionally.

    I indentify with something Rori said. EMOTIONS ALWAYS TRUMPS LOGIC! Love is truly inspired. Yes money is important, being responsible with it too but, I cant curl up next to it a night and relax there in its arms.

    Linda



  60.  #60cookie on July 3, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    Oh Katja, my heart literally broke when I read your response to me. No, I never read that anywhere on here or believe me I wouldn’t have asked. I feel so much love outpouring from my heart to yours, I couldn’t imagine being in this situation. I am praying for you and your daughter, you are a very strong woman and I feel so grateful that you were able to turn your relationship around before. Thank you so much for sharing. You have reminded me that life is very short and how important it is to love and live to the fullest. Much love to you.



  61.  #61cookie on July 3, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    I would like to add a combination of almost everything everyone said on here to my list of wants and must haves. Thank you.



  62.  #62alias girl on July 3, 2009 at 1:49 pm

    i also continue to feel love and support to you katja. truly.

    linda thank you for sharing your story. you sound like you were a great mom and wife and maker of a wonderful home. i felt uplifted to read that. i feel drawn/magnatized to that. thank you also for sharing the missing element. i feel perplexed a little still on how to create this missing element in my own life. i mean i can enjoy my life, my activities, my creations etc. i can enjoy the sensuality of life. but i truly desire companions and love and connection on a deeper level than i have so far experienced in this lifetime.



  63.  #63Daria on July 3, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    OMG cookie that is an incredible list. I feel so inspired. THJANK YOU so much for sharing that.



  64.  #64Daria on July 3, 2009 at 2:13 pm

    What about when us women are bigger body wise. (than the man). I think this is interesting that we can be all shapes and be Goddesses. Like fertility goddesses and butterfly goddesses and cat goddesses and gazelle goddesses



  65.  #65Daria on July 3, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    This is such a freakin awesome post. It’s making me feel so free and more able to explore what i want in a man.

    I don’t dare dream that i can have a man i respect that could actually provide for me and my family. I am struggling so hard to provide for myself and a part of me is convinced that as an adult no one will take care of me. Such a man does not exist it is too high an expectation and might even be corrupting. Men are not superheros and gods. I will now work on envisioning life this way even though i feel tight in my solar plexus. I want to envision feeling safe enough to give my safety to a man… it feels so scary… to expect him to provide for everything… aack… i feel panicked… i feel unsafe and encrouached upon… i feel overwhelmed.

    I feel so interested in having a real family unit and reach my dreams too. that feels awkward and i feel embarassed of my clumsy phrasing… i feel pressed in my chest and ashamed… i feel weird… i feel better …

    i have a man over right now hehe..



  66.  #66Daria on July 3, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    I used to want to be equal. As I grew up I didn’t want a man to protect me because I wanted to prove I could protect myself.

    I was in my warrior Goddess self. I love it.

    I feel so interested in exploring all my Goddess selves.

    I am now in my Aphrodite sex Goddess self i think hehe…



  67.  #67Erika on July 3, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    Daria,
    I enjoy your posts and words so much.

    You know what form of “equality” would turn me on? It looks like this: I don’t care how much money the guy has right now, but he is committed to starting a business with me. He is passionate to learn about and master marketing and technical issues, while I focus on my strengths (writing content and networking). We work together as a team to create a business that generates a passive income stream big enough that neither one of us ever has to worry about money ever again. We free ourselves to travel the world, have help with raising our kids, and we help other people become free.

    And meanwhile, out of our shared wealth, he always picks up the tab. He surprises me with jewelry or flowers or a shopping spree out of the blue every so often. He surprises me with romantic adventures, and I’m sure along the way I’d surprise him with a few as well.

    Now THAT is equality that I can feel good about…



  68.  #68Daria on July 3, 2009 at 3:26 pm

    Hehe Erika.

    I want help with marketing and technical issues too. Thank you universe!

    =)



  69.  #69Jody on July 3, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    I’m having a hard time tonight. Its been 9 days since I’ve heard from”K”. I haven’t tried to reach him, and I’m proud that I’ve stuck to my boundries, but he hasn’t tried to reach me either, and that hurts. Its the longest we’ve gone without contact in 5 mos. I feel the tears welling up, and the I feel my stomach turning, I feel fear, I feel hopeless…



  70.  #70Ann on July 3, 2009 at 8:58 pm

    Wanted to wish everyone a Happy & Safe 4th of July. Don’t know if I’ll be around a computer tomorrow but hope everyone has a feel good day.



  71.  #71alias girl on July 3, 2009 at 9:36 pm

    thanks ann! you too!

    jody i feel excited you are on this path. things got easier aand better than ever before for me over time. i justt took it baby step by baby stpe. do you have modern siren program yet? there aare tolls like drop to your knees. or touch the walls and say thank you. or at work i often go touch trees. or you can start with the power and self esteem series posted in one of the comments recently.

    or sometimes i just don’t feel like doing any tools. i just want to feel better dammit. but tools helps me.

    the more i keep focus on me and caring for myself in a lovely way rather than some man who is too dumb to call me the better i feel.



  72.  #72Daria on July 3, 2009 at 9:52 pm

    I EFTd on finding myself exercising randomly a few days ago. I guess now its happening because I did my tummy exercise in front of a guy yesterday. And today i did two other stretches. I just got done from doing one and it felt oh so good.

    I feel like magic medicine woman. (well I am Magic Medicine Woman) but anyways the stretch is one of the T-tapp stretches. IT balances hormones because it is really female energy related and works out our energy. It feels like having bicycled out all your tension while layingon your back. It feels like you just self gave yourself an enormous unbelievable cat stretch. It’s called Ladybugs and it consists of laying on your back and moving one leg close to the body. It feels too complicated to explain. I also want to recommend all of Teresa Tapp’s exercises and even products. she is really all about health AND beauty and I think shes a magic medicine goddess. She kind of intuited all these exercises that she made up that you can tell really move energy through the body in an amazing way. Yeah. she rocks in my book. I feel like a commercial but hey. its like i waould say the same about rori. with an R. Rori.



  73.  #73Daria on July 3, 2009 at 9:58 pm

    ooh i like this…

    Be humble for you are made of earth. Be noble for you are made of stars.

    It was quoted on facebook as a serbian proverb.



  74.  #74Tracy on July 3, 2009 at 11:42 pm

    Linda,
    What you posted was beautiful…..
    What you describe the kind of marriage i have always envisioned to have and never for once did i try and analyse the emotional implications of being in a relationship with a man…..I just wanted the nice house the faithful husband and children…..
    Now i am more aware of the emotional implications and i am trying to observe my reactions and feelings towards different kinds of men….
    i went on a date yesterday and i realised that for me a man who is more financially stable is attractive and i am more willing to set up a relationship with him….but thats because i come from a background where my parents struggled to raise us and i have a great fear for in adequacy…..so yesterday i felt that i kept deviating from just enjoying my time with the guy to trying to figure out if he can take care of finances….I realized that i need to deal with my fears evolving finances if i am connect with a guy fully….



  75.  #75Katja on July 3, 2009 at 11:53 pm

    Thanks to all of you for your love and support!

    I am taking some time off for myself,going on vacation with my little daughter but will come back to this blog when I am back home.

    Love and happiness to all of you!!!
    Katja



  76.  #76gina on July 3, 2009 at 11:58 pm

    My heart feels open. i feel buzzing in my chest. I feel ease and languid and longing and hungry and I love it. I feel cavernous and deep and receptive. I feel juicy and warm and luscious. I’m feeling self conscious about the sexual connotation, LOL. Ah, in my head now. Buzzing is gone 🙁 felt tension in my leg, let it go. I feel silly now. hiccup. yawn. missin that yummy feeling i just had. now i’m mostly aware of the hunger in my stomach. It aches and burns. I like that feeling, too. Loving it just satiated it, like I absorbed the ache.
    I was doin some thinkin’ about a guy who I used to have such amazing sex with. Sometimes it was like the air changed. Like he was glowing and he was so beautiful, and it was a beautiful moment, and i could see that I was glowing in his eyes too. And it was like we were pure spirit, pure love – it was SO GOOD. I was tellin my roommate about those amazing moments, and she was like “wow! and why didn’t you want him?” And I realized that it was totally that I didn’t trust him to be a good provider. period. i LOVED loving him. Loved every tantalizingly delicious, painfully good moment, but I knew those moments were limited because a Lover wasn’t enough for me as a life partner. I want a Husband who is reliable. I want to feel safe and secure. I want a leader. Ooh, I just thought of the whole dancing analogy – I don’t want to be booty dancing together in a marriage. I want a man to take the lead. I want to feel safe in his arms. I want him to be clear in the direction he is taking me. when salsa dancing, I dread the moment that the guy gives me a chance to “do my thang” on my own – like a little solo. I HATE that!! I’ve been a little more daring about it lately, but I think this is symbolic. I’m gonna take this on: I’m going to become a great soloist. Cause I want to Trust myself to know that when the guy gives me the freedom to express myself without his lead, i want to be able to radiate and express all the energy, talent, and emotion that he wants to wrap his arms back around and harness.



  77.  #77Erika on July 4, 2009 at 10:46 am

    Wonderful man surprised me last night by taking me on a wonderful date that he planned out ahead of time. Unlike with most men, I didn’t have to worry about anything, and he took me to a fabulous new restaurant so I felt very sensually engaged in the newness of the place too.

    I feel very impressed, and cherished! 🙂



  78.  #78Erika on July 4, 2009 at 10:47 am

    Oh, and he also brought up the subject of having children with me. I feel so relieved not to have to be the one to bring this up. I may be in heaven already! 🙂



  79.  #79Daria on July 4, 2009 at 10:48 am

    I had a man overnite yesterday… and even though it felt nice, I felt so bored. I didn’t feel like there was anything to do, I felt like I had to lead. He feels very feminine energy to me. I used to lean back with him and we would both just lay there in the car for hours, which felt nice to practice being present and relaxed. But over here I felt good yet bored. Very bored. More bored than by myself.

    uf. I feel guilty worried and sad.

    I am also ending my cycle so with that comes a feeling of increased anxiety and unsatisfaction, not feeling like really being around people, yet feeling like I should and could be smiling and laughing.



  80.  #80Daria on July 4, 2009 at 10:53 am

    I feel scared posting here because I feel worried my mom will read it now.

    I had sex and it felt ok. It felt ok but I did not feel fulfilled. I still wanted to have sex. I feel like I have to almost directly say I want sex with him. He totally wants me to make the moves. I feel drained. I want a more agressive man.

    I feel tired of not having been on dates and compensating for guys not having stuff like cars. I feel annoyed with guys. I feel tired and bored and unworshipped.



  81.  #81Dan_Brodribb on July 4, 2009 at 10:57 am

    I don’t see a lot of male comments. While I won’t presume to speak for Jason, I also get skittish around paying for women on dates and maybe sharing my thoughts will help you understand where some guys are coming from.

    I agree with Erika whole-heartedly that the money isn’t the issue. What I fear is being taken for granted or women not wanting to be with me because of me, but because I’m providing her with a free evening of entertainment.

    To a certain extent, this also extends to various other chivalrous behaviors–from opening doors to always being the one to initiate phone calls, etc.
    I worry that if I keep giving and she isn’t investing anything of herself in return, she will have a hard time respecting me. And I don’t think it’s possible to have a happy, healthy relationship with someone you don’t respect.

    I’ve gotten better on this particular issue over the years as I’ve become better at trusting myself (not to mention trusting the women I choose to go out with), but it still raises its head now and then.

    db



  82.  #82Daria on July 4, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    I feel mad at the world. Does saying you feel mad at the world make you die? I think my sister almost died and I thought she was mad at the world. So mad that she almost left. But she didn’t. Yet. I hope she lives. I feel so terrified and feel like im getting stabbed writing this. I feel like I’m hexing myself. I love me. And I want all good nothing bad thank you.



  83.  #83alias girl on July 4, 2009 at 12:48 pm

    gina i feltt enjoyment and wanting to read more about what you wrote. i feel confused about my own wants after reading it.

    i don’t want a husband. i don’t want children. i don’t need someone to provide for my whole existence but i don’t want someone who drags me down financially or can’t afford to buy me anything.

    i kind of do want a booty dance relationship. primarily. and i want that to be cocooned in safety, trust, loyalty, romance, monogamy (? i think maybe?)

    it sounds like i want a committed relationship. i’m not so sure that’s really true. my first priority is safety. then sex and being treated well are about equal. i don’t really want one without the other. this is what i want for Now.

    it feels sooooo easy to find the sex part. for some reason i feel convinced that men feel once they are giving me good sex they have me wrapped up. this is not so. like i said sex is so easy to find. if a man is not treating me like a goddess why would i bother hanging around. ? this is my questioon to myself.

    i feel grateful for the men who treat me like a goddess and give me good sex. my job is to receive and appreciate his rowing. if he is not giving or rowing- i am out of a job and feel bored and resentful so i need to leave to feel good again.

    this is where i am at today. thank you universe for the cute guy i will meet at the fireworks today. 🙂



  84.  #84Daria on July 4, 2009 at 12:49 pm

    TAlking about my scariest fears makes me fear they will come true. And talking about my best dreams feels impossible it feels scary because it feels like what if i just limited myself what if I really don’t know whats out there for me and I don’t want to cut myself short

    and I want to say one thing that if Rori is doing something at least she is turning us into writers because I never had so much fun writing. It feels like I can just think the words and watch them appear almost just as fast. Writing by hand makes my fingers hurt so that is kind of shorter time limit. Although it feels good to press hard on the paper and make writing REALLY BIG. on paper.

    I feel like I’m a crazy woman like one of the vampires from Van HAlen. The one in pink. I feel weird when I saw it. I was like crap. I’m crazy and looking all innocent like that vampire. I feel embarassed. I feel like crazy in the woods woman. Listen to no law woman. Weird and like animal like. And deviant. I feel horrorfilled. I feel afraid of my parents. I always feel afraid of my parents. How can I use that as a good thing?

    I guess it might be good that I feel afraid of my parents?? hmm… i feel all safe now. weird. hehe. ok. I guess I feel safe with my parents too. Sooo. It feels like whoa. Without them it must feel even scarier. I don’t want to be without my parents. They are my family and I love them. And I don’t have other family around or whatever. I have my parents and my cat. And I have my best friend thats my Godsister. Because she named her sons middle name after me. And I feel soooo exposed saying these things i feel like no hush them up dont tell strangers these things… and i feel really uncomfortable and like being judged. I feel like my life is soo crazy. I kind of feel proud about that like I should have my own reality show. Except they can’t show my real life on a reality show. Cuz its too real. Too dramatic. hehe. Im too real for a reality show. But it would be fun if they scooped me up and put me on one. For a while. Like right now. If they came to my house with hecka camera crews. And started filming. I would say hi… I just woke up… I’m feeling grumpy… now im gonna smoke… i feel all doubtful and comflicted about that… I feel like my period is going to come… I feel tense… then I lay down on my back on the patio and smoke… then I get up… I talk to my cat… I come to the computer and I type… and now I’m feeling pretty good… I feel so worried my parents are going to read this… I feel like writing that makes it more likely to happen… I feel so non-anonymous… I feel scared to change my name… because uf this is my name… I feel annoyed… I feel my privacy encroached upone… I DONT FUCKIN LIKE MY ONLINE JOURNAL READ… THSI IS MY PRIVATE STUFF… I FEEL ANGRY… ok… I dont mind people who blog here to read it… I felt furious and now I feel like i just took a shower or something… like this refreshing energy when woosh all up my head from my chest like a backwards waterfall… that is crazy… i feel pretty good… omgosh… i cant imagine how mad i really am at myparents for hecka stuff… how can i express myself with them… i feel soo doubtful and strugg”Ly” I feel like a beautiful princess butterfly.. I dont want to worry about hecka stuff… I’m just feeling lovely… I feel like the air and the lights are magical and the lights are making the air turn hecka colors, pink and blue, like the ads on the computer and my background is a beautiful goddess that kinda looks like me…

    and i have Smart water. I love smart water. It is filtered and has electrolytes. I would rather have spring water but smart water Feels good. It is my friend.

    Do you guys think I’m weird for writing all this? No one would buy this shit. IT woudl be fun if I could write books. But i cant. Ive never written a book. That feels way too big. Like building the Taj Mahal. I feel way too goofy for that. I’m way too irresponsible. I could never write a book… Duh… I suck…

    well… that felt interesting… now my eyes feel like they are tearing up and my chest feels squeezy… and I feel sad… but I don’t know why! But I just realized whybecause Duh I just put myself down before… I was just being “realistic” but really taht was my NV… so maybe my weird squeezy tears happen after I hurt or put myself down… hmm… I feel gross…. I feel triumphant and powerful right now too… I feel men around me are blechy right now… weird… is it my cycle? I feel like they are like molasses… too sweet… yummy but all bendy and sticky blah… right now I had too much or something… I dont want them right nwo… I feel bored… no i dont… I feel alone I dont feel bored because I am typoing… typoing feels fun… I am creating… I am doing something however uiseless. . it is not useless to me (tears… i just put myself down again) you guys i am so sensitive I guess… and I am used to being tough kinda but I really am very sensitive… i had a very intuitive boyfriend once who told me i had a boy side and a girl side and the boy side is always beating up my girl side… and i felt so ashamed taht i have a boy side because i thought that made me manly…



  85.  #85Daria on July 4, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    Alias Girl that is so right on! I want a booty dance relationship too… omg it woudl feel so fun to have a man to dance with right now… i had men over but I didnt feel inspired to dance with any of them…

    I want someone fun… I want SAFETY… this is non compromise… if you sound mad on the phone then I will hang up…!

    I want sex and treated good… YES woo hoo… omgosh I feel susch a sigh of relief saying that I actually went and sighed…

    I feel glad I am feeling my period oncoming even though i feel very thrown off and just like I am a ball of static electricity wanting to zap people and yet feeling like im burning up inside…

    I feel thankful for: Air. My face. My silver cross. My poke root salve. And generally everything I can spot in the room I can feel thankful for… which feels really good and now i feell like raising up straight and I have tears agian (why> did i put myself donw…? ifeel upset and crying? I swear to god I am crying… BRB… hehe…



  86.  #86valmont on July 4, 2009 at 1:33 pm

    what Erika points out (and I could be wrong!) is that she is in favor of the traditional model of the man being the main Provider who works hard to put bread on the table and the women who takes care of the house, kids, cooking/cleaning (i.e. housewife). Though the man could also help in house chores with the tough stuff (plumbing for ex or handy man).

    This model/division of labor works fine (as I grew up in a home like that in the middle east), for this to work, there has to be a traditional marital contract where no-fault divorce is abolished in favour of fault-based divorce (ex: infidelity, physical/emotional abuse, sanity, desertation) while child-custody is mandatory shared/joint.

    why? because if a women leaves her husband for another man or just because she is “bored”, I don’t think she should have any alimony or child support.

    I’m all for the traditional marital contract however that does not exist in the US where women who leave good and honorable men to pursue romantic affairs are rewarded with alimony, child support and 50% of the poor man’s wealth.
    in other words, bad behavior is rewarded in the states and incentives matter.

    therefore if I want to get married, I’d get back to the middle east, in the mean time I enjoy casual sex with north american women.



  87.  #87Daria on July 4, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    Hey remember that Madonna Song?

    Love is a myyyyysteeery. Everyone must die alone.(??) I hear you call my name … and it feels like… (heaven/crying>?)

    I feel like I messed it up and I am going to leave it up there as a joke. Sometimes I act like a dummy and like to make people laugh. I feel very constricted in my tummy about this right nowa nd that made me burst out laughing. I felt like i was in a little kids folktale with the rabbit and the other animals. and it felt good and like the world was right side up. not like the world is a fun mirror world where its all manipulation and evil machinery and alien spaceship spy explosive nutso domination freak fantasy… and now i want to say that i dont want to put people down because those words are just coming off the top of my head and i am freewriting… im freewriting champion yeaaaaaah… my eyes feel teared up… i feel like i have to apologize for freewriting on the blog … lol… yall should have never made writing free… hehe… my eyes feel all teary and i feel squeezy in my chest and the bakc of my head… i feel like im corny and that feels awful along with me feeling amused… i feel like im corny for my sense of humor aww… i feel bad for myself and i feel tight pinching in this spot that is hard to describe … and now i just had tears… what could be a more fun videogame than writing all day… this is more fun than playing super cow… oh !! i have to cancel my videogame subscription i feel my eyes wellin up with tears AGAIN… what an emotional being i am i feel weird and judged and put down!

    I cant just cry over everything!!! Over changing a videogame subscription!1 Thats what a voice says…

    I feel rebeliious..

    I feel crazy… you are CRAZY if you cry over these things … do you want to be CRAZY… i feel scared and terrified… yes both… i feel goofy and weird and embarssed and strained in so many ways like im being pulled like pulled pork.. no
    like mozzarella
    the braided kind

    i eat crazy kind of food and i feel my eyes tearing up AGAIN… I am beating myself up for getting excited about what im writing because I think its shameful to feel good talking about yourself… ohhhh …

    I just eftd that

    I realized that Its also shameful to feel good BEING by myself… and its shameful to feel good touching myself… i feel embarassed writing that last one and i feel like its really important i write it down right now because i want to remove those beliefs thank you.

    i feel contrained and beaten… i feel like villagers are hitting me with bats…

    I feel like i cant remove these beliefs or else how will i get along with my family.

    Ok i tapped on i cant remove, and its shameful being, touching etc

    ew that feels gross writign..

    EFT is shameful…

    hehe

    i feel all happy… after eft i feel like i just played on the playground and laughed a little bit…
    yay

    i feel kinda good and jolly..

    yay…

    i feel bored… this is when i shoudl channel my energy… into what? aaaaah i feel pressured stuck put on the spot!11 I think i get this from my dad, fear of making a decision, /I dONT KNWO WHAT I WANT TO DO SO I DONT WANT TO DO ANYTHING… aaah… i am expending my energy doing this instead uhoh and I was going to laugh at myself and i dont want to put myself down… i feel really intense and it is perfectly ok for me to expend energy feeling this trigger out and that feels like sighing thank you me and i feel like i deflated a hill and i feel kinda squeezy in my calf and thigh… and i feel dizzy in my head now… like i just came down from a high altitude … or with an elevator…

    I dont’ feel good… i feel little and sick… i feel pouty… i feel judging myself for feeling so many things… i feel little down tired and nowhere to sleep out in the rain little chiuahua…

    boo hoo… take care of me papi… hehe i feel invigorated and my eyes watery and i feel tight in my lower chakra … haha… flirting gives me energy… wow

    that feels weird to realize i never actually formed that into a thought or words before…

    Flirting feels Energizing…

    I love flirting!

    nice…

    does that mean i have to desperately search or seek out flirting? like right now? who am i fliritng with? myself…?//?? i feel tight head!!! AAZZZCk…. well… that is no longer shameful… so that feels pretty cool… I can flirty with ME! that makes me feel teary eyes… hey girl… i lvoe your teary eyes and the way you feel so tense in your solar plexus and your (pussy). LOL. I feel so EMBARASSED… I feel my cheeks turning red! I feel turned on!!! I feel happy! I feel paid attention to! I feel like what do I say… I feel stuck… lost… I don’t know what to say but I know everything I feel anyway… i feel lost and RUnning on a TRACK.. of thought… the track is curving up and to the right… whoa… like a circular spiral around my head… like wagon tracks in the donkey kong videogame…

    videogames are magical… how can we use videogames in a magical way?

    I feel very nerdy…

    i feel anxious to get back to the fun thing i was thinking about… i feel sad that you guys mihgt reject me for writing so much but IM writing for me ok and you guys can read oif you want to… i feel guilty… i feel guilty for taking up blogspace even though its infinite… the universe is like blogspace… infinite…

    im writing into the universe… and you guys have tapped into it… you have direct access to my writing in the universe… and i have you to talk to and share with…and it definitely feels magical… blogs are magical…



  88.  #88Daria on July 4, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    My masculine side is being a very thugged out guy right now. Thats why I think its good that my feminine side try to run the business… a feminine energy business… i feel uncomfortable like im being “pimped” by my masculine side… he says he is only good at thugging… being intimidating… figuring out complex situations… and hanging out with guys… he doesnt know how to make money… i feel frustrated with him… i know how hard it is for him and i feel like im making excuses for him… i feel deprived of magical abundance… i feel worried he’ll go to jail or die… i feel overwhelmed… i feel like betrayed by the world… i feel like the world in being unfair and that feels like being stabbed in the back with lots of knives and feeling kinda icy and shocked and hurt… it feels painful it feels like shock… it feels like oh no sinking in stomach… like being hit by a huge truck… i feel scared of the shock feeling and i embrace my shock… thank you for being there and helping me transition from one side to the otherof danger…



  89.  #89Daria on July 4, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    Money is being fecetious right now. He’s promising me a lot, but he hasn’t come through. I feel like i’ve been majorly overfunctioning and thinking about him a lot.. I feel desperate… This month i thought for sure he was gonna come through for me and now I don’t know anyomre… I feel so strained… and I feel like i got all ready for him and stuff and now I just feel disappointed… I’m just not good enough… why does he treat me this way… I feel frustrated..

    I also feel relieved because I know that as I practice and get more into my Godessness money won’t be able to hlep but be attracted to me… and not only money but other men, like Success, Fame, Fortune, Power, Entrepreneurship, Significance, Wealth, Numbers, and other gentlemen I feel so intimidated around I feel like blushing right now just thinking about them. So I feel excited about my future as a Money Attracting Goddess. I feel like fidgeting with my ankles crossed and I feel ashamed about that and at the same time it feels good. It is shameful to feel good about some things. what things? i dont know… Some things you shouldnt feel good about. I just eftd it. So now lets move on and see how that plays out. I feel tense. I suddenly felt like sitting up because i rememebered what i wanted to share with you guys…

    its a picture of how I want money for me. plentiful like trees, so that I as a magic godess don’t have to think too much about it, i can just pluck it from the walls of my jungle cave…

    I felt so awed by this picture… If those roots were the walls, and they all had dark green giant leaves, all those leaves would be my money… lush and dark with life and making the air clear humid like a rainforest



  90.  #90Daria on July 4, 2009 at 2:17 pm


  91.  #91Daria on July 4, 2009 at 4:46 pm

    I deire laughter and celebration…

    I feel that I am instead all unhealthy feeling and anxious and out of whack… I feel like an electric hedgehog

    I want to give myself what I want. I feel the part of me that wants to whine and feel victimized feeling all alone at the house on 4th of july. I want celebration and strength and feeling in the moment.

    I feel good feeling like celebration, feeling like things are flowy and dancing and singing to me. And yet my body is calling for rest rest rest…

    this conflict



  92.  #92Daria on July 4, 2009 at 4:49 pm

    I also feel all disappointed that I havent read anything from anyone else on the blog. I feel all anxious and worried that i drove everyone away with my huge posts. My huge posts like huge clouds. I want to interactive.

    So i choose to feel interactive now. I can interact with my inanimate objects… like the lamp, the phone, even the bed…

    maybe i will go lay with my feet up the wall and do some restorative yoga stuff



  93.  #93Erika on July 4, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    Lol, Daria — electric hedgehog. Chasing us all off the blog. Lol !!!

    Hehe, I decided to take the Fourth off too. I was going with a girlfriend to a BBQ over in the East Bay but I feel crampy and not social right now so I’m taking it easy instead.

    I love giving myself permission to ignore holidays if I feel like it. I love doing what feels right in every moment.



  94.  #94Daria on July 4, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    I looked at porn today and realized I don’t feel as triggered about it. I used to judge the women as gross and sluts and being stupid and how I’m totally not like that. Now I’m looking at it and the women look like Goddesses to me. It feels reassuring.

    Also I feel very alert to the “men victim mentality” on these sites. LIke before I would feel totally traumatized by some of the phrases and start feeling very disturbed. This time when I read a phrase like “my ex wife was a whore and now I film whores” it jsut rang to me like whoa… some guy who is blaming his fear on his ex wife and is in hating women because he feels victimized by him mode. I didn’t feel all triggered and like oh no I’m a whore or soemthing like that. It just seems like uneccesary bs but doesnt seem as horrifying… just misguided… kinda like when guys complain about having to pay for dinner

    Also the racism in the sites and the agressive words are no longer as triggering/traumatizing. Racism and sexism seem to be prevalent in porn titles etc. and it feels good to think and realize that this is not the only way it has to be. ie… that sex and racism and sexim are not necessarily related…

    i feel lost in my thoughts and words but i really like non judgement… also i dont feel so freaked out that if i happen watch a certain type of sex it means i want to have it or other “bad stuff” will happen and mess up my brain or seomthing



  95.  #95Erika on July 4, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    Daria,

    I used to have stereotypes probably too. But I met a bunch of real life porn stars (men and women) in the past six months, and I adore them. Now I just see them as people who have a job, just like all the other people who have a job. It’s kinda cool. Some of them are really into their job, and their enthusiasm is contagious 😉



  96.  #96Daria on July 4, 2009 at 9:09 pm

    Yeah… I don’t want to be a pornstar. It feels freeing to watch porn (and even just to breathe and exist) and Not judge the people. The writing seems to be much more of the put down stuff… some of the porn i saw looked very cooperative… ie the people looked like they were having fun.

    I’ve been taking great care of myself today… I just took a bath and did a zen detox hair treatment… yay… i olso took off my old toe nailpolish… I’m feeling less anxious and also not tired …



  97.  #97Daria on July 4, 2009 at 9:10 pm

    I said i don’t want to be a pornstar more as a reminder to myself lol. I feel afraid i will now hit the other extreme and become a porn star. Fortunately i am in charge and get to choose what becomes of me.



  98.  #98Erika on July 4, 2009 at 9:23 pm

    Daria,

    LoooOOOooooL,

    reminding yourself not to become a porn star. I am LMAO, thank you.

    ‘Tis true though it feels so good to be liberated from all the “shoulds” that suddenly it feels like anything is possible, and then notions like becoming a stripper or porn star suddenly become possibilities. haha, I’ve had guys ask me about both in the past few weeks …



  99.  #99gina on July 4, 2009 at 9:42 pm

    blaaaah…little drunk from 4th of july celebration wine wine win. not drunk. maybe tipsy and TIRED!! couldn’t sleep till 7:30 in the morning, was woken up at 9:30, then went to a political rally that was all wrong, then went to a concert and drank wine with a friend who found her PERFECT man and married him. It was weird because before she was even considering him as a Possibility, my mom had given him my number, and referred him to my pic online. He spotted me at a salsa bar one night, and there was slight flirting. There was a night I was supposed to meet him, but I was all crazy about another guy – I ended up all over my crush, and wondered if I “blew it.” But now he’s MARRIED to one of my good friends and they are absolutely perfect for eachother. Goes to show me that there are bigger forces at work, and I can blame myself things and get in a tizzy. But I’m taking too much credit – the Universe knows what it’s doing.

    Alias girl said she wanted to read more bout what I want….hmmmm. I associate booty dancing with the feminist movement, and i blame the feminist movement for jason thinking that he shouldn’t have to treat women like they aren’t men. What else…? I appreciate Women’s Liberation: I don’t want to be boxed into a role as Mom. But i would definitely rather raise children than run a mail route or manage an insurance company. I do feel compelled to serve a purpose beyond wife/mother (if I even fulfill that role), and I’m grateful to be free to do it, but in general, I’m annoyed that society has undermined the role of motherhood. I was thinking that if a woman gets pregnant, her body, psyche and body is PERMANENTLY changed. And a man can go on living without even knowing that he has reproduced. The bigger risk and responsibility lies with us. IT’S NOT EQUAL JASON. ugh..makes me mad.
    In general, i’m totally willing to negotiate, but I need to see that a man is in ‘provider’ mode: as in giving. If he’s needy, then he isn’t husband material. I don’t want to be HIS mama – he isn’t the baby that I’m wanting to take care of. I don’t want a man who is dependent on alcohol, drugs, gambling, or drama to get through the mundane. I want a man who is disciplined and has values. I want a man who values ME, and consistently takes care of me/kids. I want a man I can rely on, regardless of who’s making the money. I want him to be a partner, and I would prefer him to be a leader.



  100.  #100Daria on July 4, 2009 at 10:23 pm

    Booty dancing feels magical primal and free to me. It feels like the essence of raw magic. And sex. Sex magic.

    And from that flows humanness… and love, and being in the flow in rhythm with nature.



  101.  #101lila on July 4, 2009 at 11:47 pm

    Rori et al.
    I must thank you, as I found this post & ensuing commentary to be a helpful exercise for re-iterating/finding out, as you say:

    “what’s really important and necessary. ”

    After noticing the reactivity & distaste triggered, felt inspired to dust the below book off the shelf, for some reason & found some supportive insights/considerations to my own spiritual/relationship challenges.

    if it serves anyone else….

    “If the Buddha Dated”, Charlotte Kasl, PHd
    http://tinyurl.com/nn59fj

    ‘[In Buddhism], you are encouraged to do whatever helps you become more awake. If we dated with a Buddhist consciousness there would be no separate “rules” for men & women, because seekers on the path are not distinguished by gender…” page 5

    “Becoming mindful of our attachments or demands in relationships – you should give me this/do this/be a certain way – gives us a starting place for loosening the grip of our demanding ego. Whenever we are frustrated, irritated, manipulative, or demanding, we are attached to someone or something being different. When we try to mold someone into an image of what we want rather than getting to know and appreciate them as they are, we create separateness, frustration & lonlinness. As we become mindful of our demands & less insistent on having things our way, we feel increasingly peaceful & in touch with our compassion & tenderness.” page 9



  102.  #102John S on July 5, 2009 at 12:13 am

    Erika, if a guy making a lot of money is a non-negotiable for you, why date someone who doesn’t make a lot of money? And then fault them for not making a lot of money? And then post on your blog about a great date you have with a guy who can afford to take you to a nice restaurant? It strikes me as mean every step of the way.



  103.  #103Winks on July 5, 2009 at 7:59 am

    This has been such a great post. You women are amazing.
    I want to learn more about the PUA’s strategies so I can more easily spot them and run. It feels like woman hating. Disrespectful. Selfish. And even a recovering PUA has that programming poking out at times. Frightening.



  104.  #104Erika on July 5, 2009 at 9:27 am

    Hey girls,

    I really feel compelled to say this — I don’t want to “demonize” PUAs.

    It is really empowering as a woman to understand the techniques these guys use to turn us on, but please realize that the “natural” guys have been using these things for centuries. A certain group of guys figured out how it all works, and the seduction community was born.

    But here’s the thing … the PUA movement is GOOD. Notice how often women on here are complaining about guys being boring and lifeless. A good PUA coach can cure a guy of that and get him in touch with his aliveness again.

    Notice how often women on here are complaining about a guy they want to have a commitment with who they ARE attracted to? That guy, more often than not, is consciously or unconsciously doing what the PUAs teach. Here’s the thing about that. As a woman, by learning how these principles work, I can become way more empowered to attract and keep around the guy of my dreams. The guy who is solid masculine AND turns me on.

    Also … most PUAs are not teaching be financially dependent on women. RSD, Stephen Nash, David Deida (from what I understand) and most of the others teach that a guy cannot make a woman his number one priority or he’ll lose her. He must find his life path and purpose and become empowered as a man to be able to attract and keep women in his life.

    It really is win/win, and I feel sad to see PUAs being bashed without seeing this side of things.



  105.  #105Erika on July 5, 2009 at 9:36 am

    I mean, don’t you love it when you’re really turned on by a guy and you feel all tingly being around him? Isn’t that what most of us want in a life mate?

    So I would like to embrace the positive side of PUA and encourage guys to use it responsibly, which THEY WILL as long as we have good boundaries. As long as we keep saying no to things that don’t feel good (like a guy asking me to buy him a plane ticket), guys will have no choice but to grow up and become men.



  106.  #106Daria on July 5, 2009 at 11:43 am

    I agree that PUA’s are on the right track with teaching men how to be more attractive.

    I helped lots of my friends “score” girls, and I think it’s good for them , especially if they’re building confidence. It helps them relax in the masculine approaching role where they have to make all the moves… can be scary for them too. Also it builds their social skills and their “fun” factor. So ultimately they will be better men and have a better chance when they Do fall for that one girl. Now to teach them relationship skills… next step I suppose…



  107.  #107Erika on July 5, 2009 at 12:12 pm

    Yeah, PUA good.

    PUA as a substitute for being a man, bad.



  108.  #108Daria on July 5, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    I feel energized. I’m cooking. I’m cooking old oil fry sausage and shrimp with yoghurt honey, potato chips crumbs, green onion, hot pepper and cinnamon



  109.  #109Robin on July 5, 2009 at 4:18 pm

    ‘To have boundaries is to know what feels safe and good to you and what doesn’t ”

    I feel sad and awful…I feel like I’ve just had a major setback…

    Some things came up on a ‘date’ and now I feel just awful. The guy who lives 5 hrs away, who had asked if he could stay with me, and I told him it would feel great to see him but that I knew I wouldnt feel comfortable with that particular arrangement, well he came & ws planning on leaving later that night, since I said no

    He told me he was coming by and then would drive to another town to visit a friend the next morning. cool

    He gets to town, we had a great evening, its late, and he wants to go for a drive. I said ok, we’re driving and he starts pressuring me about sitting at my house to have some privacy…asking whats the big deal, why cant I see where you live, is there someone there, you need to trust me, I dont care what your place is like

    I feel so awful, I gave it, but said ok we can go back to my house, but we will have to sit outside, we cant go in (b/c I cleared out my storage unit, and I literally can’t MOVE in my apt right now), we get there, talk for a LONG TIME (I know), and he wants to go inside b/c its a hot night, I said no, he’s going on and on about how I need to trust him, that he doesnt care what it looks like, I still said not, so we sit in the car a talk some more and then start fooling around, and it starts getting to my stopping place, I said all kinds of feeling messages about how I didnt want to go further, but he wouldnt stop, I had to ask him 4 or 5 times and then forcefully removed his hand.
    And I didnt feel pissed the 1st time this happened (it happened more than once), and I feel awful that I didnt feel angry the 1st INSTANCE he didnt stop, one time I went to remove his hand, and he pinned me down and I couldnt move, and then I FELT SCARED…) And I STILL sat there with him, instead of just telling him to leave, and used feeling messages over and over and over, and hes like al youve been saying for the past 2 hrs is I, ME, I, ME

    What the F#%@^*&!!!

    OMG I feel so ANGRY AND awful WITH MYSELF for not standing up to this guy more forcefully…

    I told him I want to wait…hes like good luck, Im like I dont NEED luck…

    PISSED

    CRYING

    TRYING NOT TO BEAT MYSELF UP

    Where the F#%$@* is my goddess?????????????

    By now its 7am, and hes like Ive been on the road for 15 hrs, and I dont want to drive the 3 hrs to see my friends and have an accident. Can I sleep for just a couple of hours?

    FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    AND WTF do I do? I GIVE IN AGAIN!! And I let him F#$$^%ing sleep, but there was only my bed, so we’re in my bed and hes trying to mess around, and its getting more and more outta hand, some of it feels good, but when I started to feel bac I started stopping him, Im telling him I dont feel comfortable with this, hes pushing and pushing, I felt so damn tired I just rolled over, hes like youre gonna face away from me? I didnt way one word, I rolled over and went to sleep…

    We wake up a couple of hours later, and Im feeling so F@$#^%ing pissed, he wakes up and I said I feel furious, I feel like Im being pressured, I dont want to feel pressured…I dont want to go past a certain point if it doesnt feel good,
    He started arguing with me, I wouldnt argue back, and He apologized, and starts the same S#$@! again, so when it started feeling bad, I did the same thing, and I know I sounded like a broken record, but I kept saying it over and over and when I felt pissed, I would get firm in my tone (this is actually what happened the whole night-I felt like I was telling my 14 month old nephew to stop touching the cable remote…)

    Instead of just F$^$&ing kicking his damn ass out of my house!!!!!

    I feel so bad about how far it went, it wound up going WAY past my stopping point, and I feel like garbage, it felt good at times, but again, when it didnt, I said so, (and hes like you cant do that…well F%^& if I cant!)

    I mean it went WAY WAY WAY past my stopping point, he was totally naked, trying to get my pants off, pushing for oral, dry…I had no idea what to say to stop it…

    I feel sad too b/c I really liked this guy, and now I feel disappointed,

    AND I ACTUALLY FEEL SAD

    It finally got so outta hand I sat up and said I cant take
    anymore, and he said should I go, and I said yes, and he got dressed and left…

    HE offered to drive back to see me Sunday, and I said only if its in the middle od the day bc I cant have you over here again…

    When now I Feel like I should have said F&@%^& OFF!!!! ( or I dont feel comfortable seeing you again…)

    What a practice opportunity wasted!!!!!!!!!
    F@#$%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Why could I stand up for myself?????????
    Ive been doing so well, but this was just like overload and its almost like I shut down completely…
    And I feel guilty for enjoying the parts that felt good, bc its clear that this guy is not good for me
    Now I feel like giving up…

    PISSED AND CRYING



  110.  #110Robin on July 5, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    Im gonna riff and use this experience to evolve myself…

    I feel scared, I love my feeling of scariness, thank you scariness, I feel guilty, thank you guilt, I LOVE my guilt…

    I feel happy now that I was able to enjoy SOME of the parts..I feel happy that I managed to stay open (some of the time)…
    I feel angry and I felt unheard, oooh I LOVE my anger, It feels great, thank you anger for being so fiery & powerful!!!
    e, I may never hear from him, I feeling better, I refuse to beat myself up…he may never call again, and that feels scary (and I feel guilty that I actually will feel sad if I dont see him again) I feel confused

    I love my fear, my guilt, my sadness, my confusion…



  111.  #111alias girl on July 5, 2009 at 4:43 pm

    robin i feel bad you had to go through a traumatic experience. i feel compassion. i also feel disgust. i also feel angry.

    you wrote:

    ‘To have boundaries is to know what feels safe and good to you and what doesn’t ”

    i would add more to the definition– for myself. to have boundaries is to instill those boundaries and keep myself safe by any means necessary. ie saying no, walking away, ending a date, calling the cops.

    sometimes i have/co-create experiences that help me heal my blind spots or my previous traumas. or help me grow into the goddess i want to be.

    i feel very grateful you were not hurt. i feel good to read your own insight into the incident. i feel a desire to be comforting to your traumatized little girl. i feel very grateful you are safe.



  112.  #112Robin on July 5, 2009 at 4:49 pm

    Alias Girl,

    Thank you so much, I feel relieved reading your words….I feel glad that I wasnt hurt either..

    “sometimes i have/co-create experiences that help me heal my blind spots or my previous traumas. or help me grow into the goddess i want to be.”

    Please tell me more about this..



  113.  #113Daria on July 5, 2009 at 5:31 pm

    Hey Robin… I feel like you did a really great job ! Dealing with an intense situation…

    even though it sounds like it felt awful at times… and it feels scary

    notice how even this jerk seeming guy now wants to see you again because you DID express your boundaries… and this was with a guy who actually had an agenda… I think you did great…



  114.  #114alias girl on July 5, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    robin i am only speaking from my own experience and belief system.

    my beliefs:
    i believe i am the co creator of my existence. i believe i magnetize experiences, situations, things and people towards me that correlate with my current vibration/beliefs and thoughts.

    in my experience, i believe i have maganetized certain experiences to me to either heal old traumas (in trying to redo them and gain mastery over the situation.) for example, my current work situation is an often interesting, disturbing, humorous, painful recreation of the family dynamics i grew up in. although as i continue to grow and establish and set and honor more boundaries for myself, my work environment is not as nasty to me. i am actually mastering what i could not master as a child because i did not have the skills/knowledge/vocabulary/courage/support.

    i also believe i have magnetized some terrific experiences to me based on my current vibration/beliefs and thoughts. for example last night’s fireworks were the best i’ve ever seen. i had such a fun night last night.

    i believe the more accountability i have towards my inner life/thoughts/beliefs/actions (or inactions) the better and more pleasing my life will be.

    this is just my opinion though.



  115.  #115Daria on July 5, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    Robin I’m rereading yoru post. Seriously don’t beat yourself up! You handled this great and the guy is gone now and whats more he likes you now

    basically you did exactly what the best you could have done

    and you can just feel thrilled now that you did stand your boundaries because you did…

    now next time its gonna be way easier girl! yay



  116.  #116gina on July 5, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    Robin I’m so sorry that happened! While reading, one thought i had was that the feeling messages may have saved you more than you think. Cause how the heck are you supposed to handle a situation like that?? I would feel scared and intimated, and I would have worried that he would rape me if I didn’t coax him into being more civil. That’s probably why he didn’t like it when you were expressing yourself – he didn’t want to have to take you into consideration at all, and you insisted that he did. I hope you can be proud of yourself for that. If you had known better, you would have done better – you did the very best you could. you survived and it could have been a lot worse. next time when you feel the slightest hint of intimidation, you will react completely differently than you would have prior to this experience. For me the truth in what Alias Girl said is that you must have needed to develop a strength that required this exact experience in order to learn the lesson. I feel compassion for the confusing feelings you have – they totally make sense to me: he was abusive. He turned something that should be beautiful, into something awful, so I can totally see why your feelings are all mixed up. Reading about how you’re beating yourself up is making me feel more compassionate for myself about situation I have been hard on myself for. Cause reading it, I’m thinking “Stop beating yourself up!! He was the bad guy, not you. Yes, please become stronger from this situation, but beating yourself up isn’t productive.” It’s like he knocked you down, and you’re kicking yourself for being so weak. I see that I’ve done that, too. Now i want to say to my past self knocked on the ground “Get up!” rather than “weakling!! look, you got knocked down cause you’re weak!” I wish you the best in processing all the lessons you can learn from this experience, and peacefully moving on with your life.



  117.  #117gina on July 5, 2009 at 6:35 pm

    Yep, I agree with Daria. You did great.



  118.  #118Daria on July 5, 2009 at 7:27 pm

    I’m reading Twilight. I feel so excited reading it. I want a man that i think is awesome that wants to be around me.

    hehe!

    yay

    I feel thrilled and excited



  119.  #119alias girl on July 5, 2009 at 8:01 pm

    ooohh i want to read that daria. i feel Inspired. i don’t have an urge to see the movie but i would love to read it. ooohh note to self.

    hey shazizmo! hah! i changed my dating profile. just flat out honest. hey look this is what i want. sorry to all it offends. and the next two guys to email me were like What i want. or think i want. so i am talking to three men who i feel interested in. wahooey. yae! and i don’t even care anymore. i’m just being honest as possible. i just write back right away with whatever. no more strategizing. or at least less so. my plan is to date four or five guys i am really interested in. hah. i have said this all along but i feel good about this idea. for now.



  120.  #120alias girl on July 5, 2009 at 8:05 pm

    hey has anyone else noticed that jason miller never posts unless jason savage does? hehe. i’m just sayin’.

    i mean i know he has a totally different style of writing and verifiable different ISP and everything.

    i feel troublemaker-ish.

    still. is an interesting oddity.



  121.  #121gina on July 5, 2009 at 8:33 pm

    in his blog about “siren island,” didn’t he admit to 3 aliases?



  122.  #122Robin on July 5, 2009 at 8:55 pm

    Daria, Alias Girl, Gina,

    Thank you SO MUCH!!!!!!

    Im feeling relieved and the negative feelings are dissolving.

    Ive got a whatever feeling now…if he calls and brings it up & is pissed…whatever, if he calls and makes no mention of it…whatever…if he never contacts me again…whatever…

    If we talk again, I feel unsure of what I will say, and how I will say it….

    Speech-time…

    Yeah I definitely feel all kinds of emotions just tumbling all over one another…fear, some serious anger for feeling unheard, guilt for still feeling attraction for this guy, fear for still feeling attraction for this guy, Im like is something wrong with me?!?

    I do feel somehow stronger bc of this experience but I cant put my finger on exactly what is it that I feel stronger about…



  123.  #123alias girl on July 5, 2009 at 9:26 pm

    yae robin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i feel so excited! yes! I feel strength reading your last post! yes!

    i relate and feel triggered as well. i often feel attraction for men who are not always great to me.

    baby step by baby step i feel i am healing my attraction to toxicity. or if i am going to choose a toxic man then at least i can consciously Choose it. but with rori’s work and tools— honestly —the toxicity starts to feel gross to me rather than exciting. it just feels bad to me. and i used to seek out punishment and not recognize it. now i immediately am aware and can say ‘oh, that feels bad. ‘ i would rather feel good. then i can move away from it and towards something more good feeling.



  124.  #124Robin on July 5, 2009 at 9:31 pm

    I also feel triggered bc I found out my ex is taking a vacation to see his family and hes taking his gf for part of the time….I feel sad and awful about that…..I still feel attached to him and it feels bad to see him with someone else…and people keep saying how much better he looks,healthier, etc these days w his gf….

    And a date just didnt show up, we had a time set up but not a place, & I never heard back from him, so i made plans with another guy…

    this weekend has felt so strange to me….too many triggers



  125.  #125Daria on July 5, 2009 at 9:42 pm

    I feel guilty because this guy I am dating signed up for an event for today and I told him I would go with him but I didn’t want to go today. I didn’t want to drive. I feel guilty because it was something he was participating in and i feel unsupportive not being there. I think when you listen to what ppl say they appreciate about their gilr tehy say “she was there for me” or etc… but now maybe that is just a misconception

    part of me feels sure it was better to go with my feelings of not really feeling like going

    i feel like ima bad girlfriend (even though im not a gf of course) but this guy is nice



  126.  #126alias girl on July 6, 2009 at 12:36 am

    although now i feel triggered. i feel scared for when i have been in situations where perhaps the man felt off balance and if i did not handle thing delicately or in a certain way i could have been harmed. i suddenly feel weird and triggered with situations i have been in. ew. i want to shake those thoughts off me. i feel grateful i was not harmed. i feel grateful robin was not harmed. i feel weird a little. ah. i just feel grateful. phew.



  127.  #127alias girl on July 6, 2009 at 12:44 am

    i feel confused. i feel angry when a guy emails me, starts a conversation and then just falls away without saying bye or i’m going offline or anything. i feel angry and annoyed with the guy and i feel as bad as if a man was speaking to me and then just suddenly walked away in the middle of a conversation. i feel disgusted (shocking!) but i’m not kidding. i feel rejected and unwanted. 🙁 i feel like if i was their potential Dream Girl they would Never do that. i feel angry. i feel like not giving those men a chance anymore. 🙁 i feel confused. maybe i should tell them how i feel and see if they decide to take my feelings into consideration. rrrrrrrrrr. i feel angry. anytime i get triggered it’s like an elephant’s weight of past baggage of being disappointed and punished by men comes up. i feel a desire to lose this baggage asap. i feel blech. i feel angry i can’t see men as they really are but only through the lens of my past disappointment and baggage. rrrrr. i love my anger. i love my baggage. i love it all. i love my easily triggered self whose first reaction is to GET RID OF PEOPLE WHO ARE TRIGGERING ME. heeeheee. i feel amused. i feel compassion for myself. i am doing the best i can. rrr. i feel angry. i love my anger. a big hug and kiss to my anger. i love you. thank you.



  128.  #128alias girl on July 6, 2009 at 1:41 am

    so i waited til these men wrote back to me and then i responded with honest feeling messages. i did my best not to be hurtful or rejecting or punishing. and gave them all a ‘what do you think?’ at the end.

    i feel over the top. like i have no right to my real feelings. one guy said last night he would talk to me tomorrow and then didn’t write me til end of the night and only one line to complain weekends are too short. and then lol.

    blech. wtf. who cares. go away.

    i wrote that i felt unflirted with and not moved forward (neither of which are really feeling messages i don’t think but hey hindsight is everything.) and then i wrote that i felt deflated. (which is a little more accurate ffeeling-wise) then i wrote what do you think?

    i don’t care if he thinks i’m nutso. or over the top.

    I WANT ROMANCE. I WANT SOMEONE TRYING TO WOO ME.

    i donlt want someone giving me one line complaining their weekends are too short. lol.

    i don’t feel lol.

    rrrr.

    i WANT O BE WOOED. I WANT A MAN TO BE WOWED AND OH HOW CAN I MAKE THAT GODDESS MINE. I HOPE SHE WANTS TO GO ON A DATE WITH ME. I REALLY WANT TO TRY AND IMPRESS HER.

    i feel angry. i love my anger. i feel sad. i love my sadness. i love my courage. i am not settling for crap. no. i love my baggage. i love my fears. i love my sadness. i love my OPTIMISM.

    because the reality is the quality of my suitors keeps getting better and better.



  129.  #129Tracy on July 6, 2009 at 5:03 am

    I feel great that i am gaining more confidence and today i managed to use feeling messages on a guy on my circular dating circle….i was feeling so pressured on meeting him so i expalined that to him in feeling messages and i actually felt that he heard me…I Do feel turned off by him and anxious and for now i don’t feel cormfortable meeting him…I am however cormfortable chatting….
    I feel that my boundaries and starting to show and i feel more cormfortable with settling with what honestly feels good and cormfortable for me….I feel more relieved when i am honest and the guilt feeling is fading away….



  130.  #130Aldonza on July 6, 2009 at 6:32 am

    “I feel sexually turned off, completely turned off, when a man expects me to pay for things. In a marriage I would contribute plenty, possibly more than he would, but on dates I will always, always want him to pay.

    I want to be a girl. Please stop trying to use “logic” to convince me to be a boy. It’s not going to happen in a million, trillion years !!! Argh!!!! I feel so f-ing frustrated.”

    To me, this said it all. During courtship, I want to feel safe and desired. A man splitting the check with me says neither of those things. That message to me is, “I’ll take care of me, you take care of you.”

    The simple fact is, women are limited by the physical when it comes to this courtship game. Female fertility is time-limited and physical appeal wanes over time. Asking a man to step up and pay for a meal isn’t too unlike a pro athlete asking for his big contract during his most productive years.

    Jason wants equality? Well, when he’s 40 and at the peak of his earning potential, his value on the dating market will be much higher than even his above-average chosen mate, who is likely at the end of her fertile years, facing the signs of aging that men do not find attractive. Until Jason can tell me that he values dating a woman in her 40s the same way he values a woman in her 20s, then equality is a non-starter.



  131.  #131Erika on July 6, 2009 at 7:48 am

    For me, all of this is not dependent on having children and the biological. It has to do with the divine masculine/feminine polarities.

    But that aside, when a man wants to split the check or wants me to pay or (though I rarely encounter this) clearly sees it as an exchange for sex, to me it says “I don’t know how to enjoy giving to women.” And I find that such men are often impoverished in other areas of their life as well. They are still stuck in the “giving is losing” paradigm, whereas the only way to financial abundance is to learn that “giving is proof of having.” (These are teachings from A Course in Miracles.)

    “To those who have, more is given.”



  132.  #132Erika on July 6, 2009 at 8:21 am

    I don’t believe that a woman’s receiving chivalry somehow expires later in life. Why wouldn’t a man be just as chivalrous toward a 60-year-old woman as a 22-year-old woman? To me this is not biological but about polarity.

    And, btw, a woman who may no longer be super young can still be super hot. I can think of a bunch straight away, but the person who comes to mind is Marshall Rosenberg’s wife. She is an energy healer with dark, flowing long hair, she’s super feminine and soft and radiant. I can’t imagine very many men who wouldn’t be intensely attracted to her.



  133.  #133Winks on July 6, 2009 at 9:21 am

    I’m all for teaching insecure guys confidence. But when it’s all about how to get a girl into bed… And telling them lines to say that put a girl down to gain an upper hand in the situation. Their tactics repulse me. These PUA gurus come off as slimy. If one of them approached me as arrogant as they do, I’m afraid I might throwup a little.
    It’s not teaching them good win/win relationship skills.
    I spot them online listing everything they DON’T want in a woman. So negative. I don’t reply.



  134.  #134Rori Raye on July 6, 2009 at 11:13 am

    Thank you Terrance – beautifully put, extremely helpful to us all, and I say Amen to your wonderful “equality” issue insight – you are so right, it’s impossible to quantify value. So glad to have you here, Rori



  135.  #135Rori Raye on July 6, 2009 at 11:15 am

    Shannon, welcome , and thank you for your powerful personal story and insight around this – look forward to reading more of your comments…Love, Rori



  136.  #136Rori Raye on July 6, 2009 at 11:27 am

    Lila, Welcome, and thank you for your wonderful comment…you show that there are many ways to make a match with a man. Some of us become frightened when a man is not spiritually attuned to covering his own material needs…and often, a man’s lack of interest in money as an important part of his life – though just a part – can show up as an ungenerous nature in him and not be appealing. And some of us do not have that fear over security and prefer other qualities. We all place our values in different order of priority. Look forward to more of your posts, Love, Rori



  137.  #137Rori Raye on July 6, 2009 at 11:39 am

    Dan, Thank you for showing up here and sharing your experience. Let me know what you think of this…what if a date didn’t cost much money? What if you could take a woman on a walk in a new place (museum grounds…park…concert rehearsal), bring bottled water and snacks? And what if you let her know why -just as you told me? And then took her out for a neighborhood good place dinner, too, or to a small theater with lower ticket prices, a friend’s band rehearsal, a tour of the city, a beautiful church or synagogue she’s never been in, a lecture or concert at a college… so she could see you’re generous and financially stable, but not willing to use “showy” money to win her? As long as you ARE truly financially stable – there should be no games around this. Ladies – please weigh in here with ideas, and let’s see what we can come up with that will work on all these levels – a new kind of “dating” structure for a man to follow…and then, Dan, a woman will have a more honest idea of who you are, what your values are, and what her part of this equation is. The truth is, and it is a sorry truth, that most men are put off by a woman who offers ANYTHING until they’ve committed to her completely. You can say it’s not so – but I believe that on some level, conscious or not, you’re wired that way – and it dampens the sexual pull. Rori



  138.  #138Rori Raye on July 6, 2009 at 11:44 am

    Hi, Valmot, I know Erika, and that’s not what she’s saying (she’s a high-earning female with all kinds of ambitions (right Erika?) and doesn’t need a man to support her). She doesn’t even need a man to “match” her financially. What she needs is a man who has similar VALUES around money. A man who can take over financially at certain points (like when she has children) – so that there can be a more fluid distribution of financial responsibility. This is not ideological. It is the way she, and I would say, most women work. Financial instability and a mindset that rejects money on some level as not spiritual or not valuable is simply not attractive. Love, Rori



  139.  #139Rori Raye on July 6, 2009 at 11:57 am

    John, Welcome, and I hear you. The question is…what is a “lot of money”? I think we’re all more concerned here with two things- 1. Financial stability. That means you can take care of yourself. and 2. Attitude and potential. That means you have a good, positive attitude towards money, that you are able to enter into a dialogue about lifestyle and financial planning for the future and, if you are an entrepreneur, that you have the ability and interest to be successful down the line. A team is a team. You can’t be a team member with someone who wants only to hand the ball to you on important issues – even if he’s willing to take the ball and run on other issues. Strengths and weaknesses taken into account – everyone needs to have a positive attitude toward basic survival and security issues. that’s what I hear Erika saying, even though she puts in in provocative terms.That’s my take. Rori



  140.  #140Simply Shannon on July 6, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    I feel excited, intrigued and desirable when a man pursues me and asks me out for dates. And I feel turned off when a man who has extended an invitation to me expects me to pay or pursue him. I understand what Dan is saying that a man might feel he’s being taken advantage of by always paying or otherwise pursuing a woman. Sadly, I’m sure there are women out there who do this very thing. For Dan – If you are truly concerned about this issue, then I would go on dates that don’t require over the top finances and hopefully weed out women who are just looking for a free dinner date. Personally, I wouldn’t turn down an offer to go for coffee or lunch or anything that I know the man has planned. Watching fireworks this past weekend (free… well almost… he paid for my ice cream – lol!) was one of the best dates I’ve ever had!

    I’m truly not opposed to giving/paying more once our relationship is established. I just don’t feel good about myself as a woman when I am pursuing a man. I begin to question whether or not the man truly wants to be with me and will begin to pull back. If the man doesn’t step up and pursue, then I will ultimately end the relationship in favor of a man who does pursue me. I can’t explain the logic behind it. It’s just how I feel.



  141.  #141Daria on July 6, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    I feel guilty because since Circular Dating I’ve been accepting a lot of dates because I like enjoying the free dinner.

    I also don’t feel so guilty becuase to me it feels like there is more “at work” here. Yes I enjoy the meal but I also enjoy that a man is paying for me and I feel feminine. It seems as long as I embrace myself for my feelings and especially if i feel deserving men will feel appreciated giving to me.



  142.  #142Daria on July 6, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    I feel awful and also amused when I get the feeling that men think i’m a golddigger… or whine about what they’ve done for me or something…

    it’s always the same men… generous men or romantic men simply don’t have this issue… it doesn’t bleep on their radar

    they judgemental ones say judgemental things and it feels like a MAJOR turnoff… they usually say stuff like oh you think you can get whatever you want because youre pretty…

    ha

    that makes me feel gross and angry like im just pretty and they’re basically objectifying me in a non feel good way to me… even though i feel flattered that they think im pretty

    actualy i expect to be treated well because im a Woman…

    a Woman who respects herself and feels entitled to be worshipped like a Goddess…

    I’ve spent plenty of time in the past with totally broke guys or even consistently picking up the check, driving, and taking care of guys… that used to be totally normal to me… so on one hand i feel smug that that totally disproves their theory about me trying to use people… on the ohter hand i feel confident I would still not be “a golddigger” even if i didn’t have a past history of giving…



  143.  #143Jody on July 6, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    I hear and appreciate what we all want. But honestly today I feel pessimistic, wondering if a wonderful, loving relationship with passion and excitement is even possible. It seems to much to ask to be treated like a lady. I dont think any woman here wants a man to support her 100 % without contributing anything. We all want what every human being wants and that is to be loved and accepted for who we are! Cherished for what we have to give, and how we receive. If a man pursues a woman or vise versa we all want to be acknowledged and appreciated for our efforts, not rejected, used, and unvalued.
    Personally my heartaches for that kind of love and acceptance from the person of my choosing. For me what I’m trying to learn is to love myself enough to have boundries so that no one unworthy of my heart gets it again.
    I’m just so down today, I’m tired of being the man in my relationships, mowing the grass, lifting, dragging trash cans out, cleaning gutters, fixing everything. I just want someone to love me enough to do those things for me, take care of me a little bit. call me to see how I am, think about me when I’m not around, and appreciate that I am soft, and I love flowers, and notes, to know when I need there strength to lean on, when I’m weak, wipe my tears when I cry over stuff, like movies, or a tragedy that has nothing to do with me. I just feel so hopeless, does this man even exist!???? What do I have to give to a man? Unconditional love, loyalty, hot meals, a clean home, warm and gentle hands, and a loving heart to melt into, passion for a physical, emotionally, and a mental connection, fun loving and daring, very young at heart, endless amounts of laughter and smiles, and of course income, and financial stability. I am only 35, should I feel so hopeless? Everyone is worried about money, and who gives more.. Does it really matter as long as you don’t feel resentment when you give? Cant we just all treasure each other in our own ways?



  144.  #144Terrance Thames on July 6, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    Rori- Thanks for that. I am glad that my words were recieved well 🙂

    To add my experience on your request for helping come up with a solution. What has allowed me to much more effectively weed out women who are just out looking to for a free meal and find ones that are interested in connecting with me is to, Like S. Shannon wrote take women to places that don’t require much money. To me, I feel like a ‘date’ is a means to get to know and connect with another person. That can take place anywhere. That could be at the grocery store, a gym during a workout, a park…etc. I can then get an intuition on whether or not she is coming from the right place or not. If she’s not then she will give off a “yucky” vibe. Or she could just not be that into me. Personally I like to believe the former 🙂 Obviously if a guy is circular dating (which I have done quite a bit) it can get REALLY expensive. So I screen that way. I tend to stay away from coffees or dinners right off the bat because I enjoy doing things that allow me to focus completely on her without having to feel financially strained.

    Daria- I appreciate the honesty of your comment (@2:09) I had a question for my development. For you is there a direct co-relationship between you enjoying a man paying for you and you feeling feminine? And if there is, how do you convey that femininity to the man?

    The reason I ask is, for most men, you feeling feminine is an invisible truth that only you can see, unless it is conveyed in a more tangible way. Thats why most men look to sex or physical escalation as a way of getting a sense of appreciation for paying. I believe this is a big reason for the apparent gender disconnect.

    S. Shannon- It is very seductive for a man in tune with his masculinity to sense that feeling of desirability and excitement from a woman. Its what drives us to please. I feel the more in tune a woman is with those emotions the more I feel like she is coming from the right place. Great comment



  145.  #145alias girl on July 6, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    i feel like a successful adult woman. i feel good to have a voice and to draw boundaries in an adult manner. i feel glorious to be becoming my goddess self. i feel very grateful for rori and her programs and this blog and all the other sirens.

    this is totally off topic. i just felt compelled to share my feeling of success. my job does not feeel like a toxic tent. i feel detached from the drama. i feel very successful and a very strong magnet for success. i actually did not get triggered today by some weirdness that would have sent me spiralling before. i was just like oh, hmmm. ok. that does not work for me. 🙂



  146.  #146alias girl on July 6, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    drawing my boundaries doesn’t mean i always get my way. it doesn’t mean i get to control how other people respond to me or my feelings. i do get to feel very POWERFUL AND SAFE AND GODDESSEY though. i get to feel like a self loving adult rather than a whining, complaining, passive aggressive victim. which is what i used to be. which is what i learned in my family. yae! i feel terrific. i love my new self! i love me!



  147.  #147alias girl on July 6, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    lila. i feel happy you posted. for me, in my belief system, Wanting and Desiring are very essential in enjoying my human experience. i get to discern and choose every second of every day.

    i don’t want a stingy man. i want to be romanced and i want the man to provide for me in as many ways as he is able.

    i feel very feminine when a strong capable man provides for me, including opening my car door. i feel cared for. i don’t want to change a man into what i want if he does not want that for himself. i do feel good to make my desires and feelings known and then see how i feel as we both move forward and see how we like each other’s company. i am willing to make adjustments to a man’s desires if i feel good to do so. i had a man, my ex, request i wear a black dress last time we went out to eat. i felt happy to please him

    i feel good to follow my feelings and

    i feel very good and pleased today. 🙂



  148.  #148alias girl on July 6, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    aaahhhhh men are crashing on our shores!!!! welcome terrance and dan!!!!



  149.  #149Daria on July 6, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    Terrance I feel annoyed by your question and comment to me. I feel furious at being told that my femininity is possibly not noticed.

    Generally my femininity comes out “in the air” and how I express it is by smiling, feeling attractive, and feeling happy. I flirt with the man by looking in his eyes, sparkling my eyes, and smiling. I also lean back and walk on my heals. I let him lead me and call him papi (sometimes). I feel amused at myself hehe



  150.  #150Daria on July 6, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    There is a direct relationship yes. When a man pays for me or gives me something I feel admiring and awed and SPECIAL.



  151.  #151Daria on July 6, 2009 at 4:05 pm

    When guys that I have noticed as being good men don’t get me stuff like food it’s usually because they can’t… in this case they seem to get all uncomfortable… I feel pretty good in this situation too because I can tell he cares… it doesn’t feel good if it happens too much (him not being able to pay) because it kicks in my own money worries



  152.  #152Daria on July 6, 2009 at 4:08 pm

    I feel all huffy and bad now… hmm… i had just got myself to feeling relaxed.

    I like it when men pay for stuff. I like it when they have money. I like it when they GIVE ME MONEY. yeah its a very direct relationship. If you can give me something that I can’t give myself or feel like I can’t… well that puts you up there for me….

    this also works in non money stuff like I like it when a man compliments me, or takes the lead, etc…

    spending money is a very concrete way of showing me he can and will please me

    I also like it when men offer me sexual pleasure withuout expecting something in return… that generally is how i’ve started most of my sexual relationships…



  153.  #153Daria on July 6, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    Guys who are worried about being “used” for money… in my experience … have “issues” … their issue is not money necessarily but it is feeling not good enough in some way … they are not ABLE to “Do Relationship”

    they probably don’t have strong enough boundaries to say NO when they feel used… or bring up a discussion

    I grew up around a lot of boys who didn’t always have money… they were given money by girls … they never liked these girls they were just using them for money… it alwasy felt amusing to me… at the same time, they would spend money when they met a girl they really liked …

    im tired of the money user game… i simply treat myself well… request what i want… and get it

    if a man can’t treat me better than i treat myself well that doesn’t feel good…

    i feel lost… it’s really not so much about the money as it is about confidence, leading and putting yourself in a male role

    males don’t need to worry about being USED… they can use the feeling of spending money on the woman to give them more confidence… like yes i CAN do this… males don’t need to do stuff they don’t want to do… when they meet a woman they fall in love with they will WANT to give her the world… so giving to the women they are dating is practice for that…

    i feel very wealthy and powerful paying for myself, let alone for another person… i guess a man could use this feeling to build his own self-esteem

    if you “don’t have it” to pay to take women out… then relax around that… take the lead on the dates, be honest, direct, and release the insecurity about how much you have…

    what CAN you provide to a woman right now? Do that… its all practice for you too…



  154.  #154Ann on July 6, 2009 at 4:34 pm

    Hi all. I wasn’t expecting to be on here today. It’s my birthday. Nothing special going on but I’m trying to remember to count my blessing. I’ve been doing VERY GOOD the past few days at looking for the positive, doing what feels good and trying to keep positive energy.

    Terrence hello I feel honor that you shared how my comment triggered you. I’d feel like trying
    to explain a little better. When I made the statements in the below paragraph:

    “I want to feel safe enough around a man that even in my MOST ANGRY state I might say “YOU SORRY ASSHOLE.” And him not withdraw but simply say something along the lines ” Boy you’re angry now. I don’t like being called names. I’ll be back in a bit, right now I’ll give you time to deal with your anger.” And contact me in a bit to see if I’m ready to discuss the issue with him. I don’t feel like that scenario is making a man less a man or degrading my feminine side.”

    It simply means I want to feel safe enough to say that, if I’m that angry. If I’ve been triggered that far then I’m not thinking straight. I want to be with a man whose comfortable within hisself and knows me well enough to know I wouldn’t be in my loving feminine energy at that moment. He’d step up and take charge in a respectful way. He’d respect himself enough to say “I don’t like being called names” He’d respect me enough to say “I let you calm down a bit and I’ll be back”

    I feel that would help me feel very loved and respected(if he did what he said he’d do)

    I’m SO happy to hear you say these words:” Let me also say that I feel now that she wasn’t a gold digger. Instead I feel like she was desperately trying to get him to feel her instead of rationalizing her. That is how I am able to communicate with her.”

    I see myself in your description of your mother. I am here on this blog and other places to learn
    how to love and accept myself. To learn how to communicate with men in a way they’ll hear, to have better relationships with others.

    I’ve been with the same man for 33 years. I’m tired of trying to tell him what I need, how I hurt. Overall he’s a good man, but I’m a outspoken woman and he hides his behavior. He has passive aggressive(that’s what I call it anyway) behaviors that have left me looking bad over the
    years and I FEEL SO TIRED OF THAT. When he’s working he works hard but he has no desire to better
    himself. And let me say right here guys there are more ways to better yourself than just financially. He will get angry and pout or yell at me. There has been very few times he’s yelled at me out in public. In public he acts like a little boy and I’m the mean mama.

    I was speaking with a guy the other day who has known this family for years. He asked me how my husband was. I said he’s doing better, he feels good enough to yell at me. I saw the shock on his face and he confirmed what I know most people think. He said “yell, I’ve never seen him yell or get mad.

    I just feel this world would be a better place if we all learned to love and accept ourselves first but then be sure to learn how to communicate with the opposite sex.

    Women just like men aren’t all bad but women or at least this women is getting tired of doing all the work.



  155.  #155Terrance Thames on July 6, 2009 at 4:50 pm

    Alias Girl-Thanks for the warm welcome 🙂

    Daria- Thanks for that. I actually felt a body buzz when I read your first comment. I appreciate your passionate persepective. Especially when you commented on the non-money stuff.

    Btw-when a man offers sexual pleasure without expecting something in return its because he is able to recieve sexual pleasure simply by knowing that you are being pleased. Its more powerful that way. Additionally from my experience it usually leads to many more mutually beneficial experiences.



  156.  #156Daria on July 6, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    I think me saying to a man “You Sorry Asshole” is the equivalent of him saying

    “You Stupid Bitch” to me

    yes if I am feeling very emotionally strong I would be maybe able to say “I don’t like being called names, I feel angry and awful”… I would feel very triggered though…

    I feel concerned that the trigger could be huge…

    I think it’s very important to continue respectful communications and no attacks even when majorly triggered.



  157.  #157Ann on July 6, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    I forget to say welcome to Terrence and Dan. I feel good hearing a man’s perspective.

    I feel we(both sexes) have “blinding goggles” on. If a women ask or wants a man to pay for whatever that doesn’t make her a golddigger. Howbeit, some women are but I feel most aren’t.

    I feel if a guy pays for anything that doesn’t mean he automatically expects sex in return. Again howbeit, some do.

    And those are just 2 examples. I could think of lots more I’m sure.

    I also wanted to say I can FEEL when my whole body is in my feminine energy. I feel more open, relaxed, comfortable with me. And I can SEE the people around me can feel it to.

    I’ve been noticing the energy others are putting off. I’ve been choosing which energy I want to share with them. Meaning if they’re in a bad mood I’m choosing to stay(and not take in their mood on) or leave. If their in a good mood I can enjoy it with them.

    Not sure I’m making sense lol but that’s ok.



  158.  #158Daria on July 6, 2009 at 4:55 pm

    Terrance – yay I FEEL heard and understood and really excited to point this out:

    “Btw-when a man offers sexual pleasure without expecting something in return its because he is able to recieve sexual pleasure simply by knowing that you are being pleased. Its more powerful that way. Additionally from my experience it usually leads to many more mutually beneficial experiences.”

    I think this works as well with money… do you see what i mean by that?

    And yes it has led to mutually beneficial experiences haha…



  159.  #159alias girl on July 6, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    i feel good to read daria’s and ann’s last comments.

    i feel very amused and inspired by daria’s honesty and experimenting and rasing herself up to goddess self

    i feel inspired by ann raising herslef up to goddess self too.

    i feel inspired by my own self as well. 🙂



  160.  #160Ann on July 6, 2009 at 5:04 pm

    I feel my “You sorry Asshole” comment is misunderstood. I don’t condone anyone speaking to someone like that. But I know at least I have been so angry I didn’t stop to think what I’m saying.

    I would feel safe with a man who was his own man enough to know that was me at that moment only. A man who could stand up for hisself without getting angry or completely withdrawing. Who could take control of the situation from his point and speak up and say “he didn’t like that so he’d be back later.”

    And I AM NOT TRYING TO MAN BASH but I have seen men be assholes to women as well as women be bitches to men. Sometimes when it was totally uncalled for.



  161.  #161alias girl on July 6, 2009 at 5:07 pm

    rori suggests we Choose Our Words as best we can. if someone called me a stupid bitch i could forgive and forget but it also says something about his ability to control his anger.

    unless i REALLY did something horrendous or cruel then i might feel ok about being called that and would feel hopeful he could forgive me.

    if someone continued to call me names whenever they got angry or irritated i would so not be able to hang with that. it’s just not good for me personally because i just feel hurt by it and disrespected etc.

    who knows though. to each their own. my ex neighbors used to fight mean like that and they didn’t seem fazed by it.



  162.  #162tinque on July 6, 2009 at 5:33 pm

    I really have trouble understanding the focus on money. Of course we all need money to live, sadly, for the barter system is not especially viable anymore though it has been a great gift to me over the years.
    But what really makes me feel sad is the intense focus on whether the man is making “enough” to support the woman or the man who doesn’t make “enough”, whatever enough is, or the woman being so fiercely independent she will not allow a man to “take care of her” or the woman as gold digger or the couples who split everything 50/50.
    There are other ways to “contribute” aside from money. As talented and good at the things I do, making money, significant amounts I mean, has not been one of them.
    Now I don’t sit around the house eating bon bons all day log or take advantage in any way. I keep busy, very busy creating, making, planning, making a little, sometimes more than a little, and still hoping to “hit it big” whatever that means, but it’s not that important. Being the best, most compassionate, loving, sensuous, sexual ME I can be is.
    Sure I would like to contribute more financially, but it doesn’t drive me anymore, and it has taken me a very, very long time to realize I am not how much I make.
    I can and do give in so many other ways.
    Jody – I am here to tell you unequivocally that a “wonderful, loving relationship with passion and excitement” is most definitely “possible.” It’s not too much “to ask to be treated like a lady.” I imagine we do all want to be “Cherished for what we have to give, and how we receive.” I have found such a man, and he has found such a woman, so there are such people out there. Please don’t give up.



  163.  #163Terrance Thames on July 6, 2009 at 5:42 pm

    Ann- Happy Birthday 🙂 and thanks for taking the time to offer me more clarity. I understood what you meant, but I just wanted to get more perspective on what I experienced. I appreciate that your efforts have made me feel more connected to you. I would feel that way if i thought you were man bashing

    I see your point. They is a lot of grey areas when determining the intentions of the other person. I like your ‘goggles’ analogy.

    Daria- I’m glad that you feel that way. I also see your point. However, If I felt like the other person wasn’t appreciating what I was offering by paying for her or sexually pleasing her then I would feel turned off. I would either cut the relationship short or express my discontent with the expectation of getting that need met or leaving. I feel like there is a difference between enjoying something and appreciating it. A lot of men don’t recognize when a women is appreciating these things from them so as a result they develop a mentality that they are putting too much in without getting enough back.

    I feel from my experience it is much easier to feel appreciation from a woman sexually because of all of the physical/emotional clues but it is much more difficult to get a feeling of that magnitude on the monetary front. I admit to my fair share of guilt in this arena. Thats why when out on a date it mean SO much in terms of me feeling appreciating when a girl offers to pay. I feel like she is recognizing that there is somewhat of a gender based lauguage barrier there, and quite frankly I feel much more masculine to be able to lead her at that point and not allow her pay, unless it is really important for her to pay for some reason.

    Do you see what I mean by that?



  164.  #164Daria on July 6, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    Terrance – I totally see what you mean. It feels so important to appreciate a man for what he does for me. I say thank you constantly for stuff he buys me, and genuinely FEEL appreciation and connection.

    Same for sexual stuff… although actually there i can say i feel more enjoyment than appreciation…

    I don’t offer to pay, something I learned from Rori. I don’t want to pay and also I am usually in my feelings during a date and practicing… so the feeling is much more romantic and me paying does not really come up as part of that.

    I really appreciate my man “taking care of me” and I’m still getting used to the feminine energy too so sometimes i feel guilty or weird about whos paying… the more relaxed i feel about it the better it feels overall i’ve noticed



  165.  #165Daria on July 6, 2009 at 6:02 pm

    Yes… Happy Birthday ANN!!!



  166.  #166tinque on July 6, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    Doesn’t it come down to expectations Terrance? You don’t want to feel like you’re expected to pay, and a woman shouldn’t expect you to. A woman doesn’t want to feel as if it’s expected for her to “give it up” if a man pays, and he shouldn’t expect her to.
    Expectations always lead to disappointment, no matter what happens. Give freely, no expectations, and you can’t but be happy.
    Even if the givee has expectations, you have given because you wanted to. This is happy making. You will know quickly enough if that someone, a woman or anyone else, is simply a taker, so you move on.
    There is not a scorecard here either. It’s a beautiful flow. You’ll feel it or you won’t.



  167.  #167Erika on July 6, 2009 at 6:15 pm

    Terrance,

    I think a better way of communicating is needed, because I don’t and won’t offer to pay. It feels inauthentic to me because I don’t actually want to — so it seems like one of those “nice” polite shoulds that I’ve weaned myself off of. It feels unfeminine and uncomfortable. And far too many guys would let me pay if I offered.

    Now the one instance where I will offer is if I’m not attracted to the guy at all and am getting a weird vibe from him. It’s part of how I communicate my lack of romantic interest.

    Though frankly even my platonic male friends often pick up the tab, and I like that too. If I feel a good male/female vibe then I like guy friends being chivalrous too.



  168.  #168Ann on July 6, 2009 at 6:19 pm

    Thank you Terrence it feels good to receive birthday wishes. You said:

    I feel from my experience it is much easier to feel appreciation from a woman sexually because of all of the physical/emotional clues but it is much more difficult to get a feeling of that magnitude on the monetary front. I admit to my fair share of guilt in this arena. Thats why when out on a date it mean SO much in terms of me feeling appreciating when a girl offers to pay. I feel like she is recognizing that there is somewhat of a gender based lauguage barrier there, and quite frankly I feel much more masculine to be able to lead her at that point and not allow her pay, unless it is really important for her to pay for some reason.

    Do you see what I mean by that?”

    You were talking to Daria but I’d like to share what I feel you’re saying. I feel you’re saying its easier to tell when a women is happy with you in a sexually encounter. Because you see, hear and feel her reactions.

    But on a date you’d like a women to offer to pay sometimes as a way of showing she appreciates you right? You wouldn’t let her pay unless it was really important to her for some reason.

    That brings me back to my safety comments. How would a women know you thought that way unless you were comfortable enough to tell her?

    I feel if a guy ask a women out he should pay for it. I also feel he should choose where to go(on the first date at least) and it should be a public place so the women feels comfortable. If she doesn’t want to go there then ask her where she’d like to go?

    I feel alot of women(I know I would) wouldn’t feel comfortable offering to pay when you’ve first started dating. If I went out on a date with a guy and offered to pay, I’d feel he was thinking “what she doesn’t think I can pay for this? I don’t need a women to pay my way.” KWIM?



  169.  #169alias girl on July 6, 2009 at 6:20 pm

    yes HAPPY BIRTHDAY ANN! i feel very happy you were born. 🙂



  170.  #170Ann on July 6, 2009 at 6:32 pm

    Thank you Daria for the birthday wishes I was writing my post as you were posting.

    This is a interesting conversation.

    I’m really enjoying having a man perspective. And it feels like Terrence is sharing not saying this is how it’s done period. Thanks Terrence



  171.  #171Erika on July 6, 2009 at 6:35 pm

    Oh, Terrance, I also wanted to say that I’m glad you are commenting here, your energy always feels good to be around, and it feels good also to have several different men’s perspectives.

    And for the sake of transparency, I wanted to reveal that Terrance and I met in person two different weekends. I feel very comfortable with his energy, he has a very comforting masculine presence, so I started that last comment off very direct, as if we are continuing a conversation started long ago. I wasn’t feeling need for much formality.



  172.  #172Ann on July 6, 2009 at 6:40 pm

    Aww thank you Alias Girl that felt really good to read.



  173.  #173Ann on July 6, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    OK Erika now I have to ask lol Did you and terrence go out on a date? And who paid?



  174.  #174Terrance Thames on July 6, 2009 at 6:59 pm

    Daria- Thanks. This completely resonates with me. I totally get it.

    Tinque-

    Great point. Logically speaking I would agree. That is the argument most guys have when it comes to this issue. Energically I see Daria’s and some others’ points because it just feels right and masculine for a man to pay. Just like it just feels feminine to be able to surrender to a man that you trust can take care of you.

    Erika- Hey! Thanks for that and yes I woudn’t have had it any other way!

    To be more specific I don’t feel the need for that on a consistent on-going basis. Once in a blue moon is fine with me and not in the beginning. However, I was offering one way to bridge the gap in communcating appreciation from my experience. It has always compelled me to want to do more for her because I feel like she would not take it for granted. If you have any ideas on how to better communicate that I am all ears 🙂

    Ann-You’re Welcome 🙂

    You said this: That brings me back to my safety comments. How would a women know you thought that way unless you were comfortable enough to tell her?

    Great question! To be honest I really can’t remember the last time that I was dating a woman consistently and happily (meaning by that is more than say + or – 4 dates) when the woman had not offered to pay at some point. I hope this addresses the end of your comment about paying early on in the relationship.

    I also feel that men should ALWAYS pay if they ask a girl out. However I have been in many situations where a woman will ask me to take them out A LOT and expect me to pay for all of it. Not me asking them. Financially that is straining and a boundary needs to be set there.

    Haha oh and btw we did not go out on a date. She has enough guys after her 🙂



  175.  #175Terrance Thames on July 6, 2009 at 7:20 pm

    Ann- Allow me address this question further

    You said this: That brings me back to my safety comments. How would a women know you thought that way unless you were comfortable enough to tell her?

    Early on by paying with no expectations, I would be providing as Rori calls it a platform for a woman to feel comfortable enough to be herself around me with no judgements. I feel this gives me the best opportunity to connect with her. If that need of appreciation was not met, First I would convey that feeling to her. I obviously would want her to comply by showing it in a way that I could interpret and if she didn’t then we would be done. She wouldn’t know this unless I told her though thats why communication is very important. I hope this helps



  176.  #176Ann on July 6, 2009 at 7:21 pm

    LOL Terrence I had to ask.

    I feel if a women ask a guy out she should pay unless the man says he’d rather pay.

    As far as boundaries go I’m learning we each have to set our own. So when ladies are asking you out too often or you don’t want to go maybe something along the lines of “Another time perhaps, I’ll let you know.



  177.  #177Erika on July 6, 2009 at 7:28 pm

    We didn’t go on a “date,” but Terrance was very chivalrous to me as a friend, and I really, really appreciated it. He’s the kind of guy I feel safe getting physically close to … he feels like a man, like he can handle it.



  178.  #178Daria on July 6, 2009 at 7:28 pm

    OMG I FEEL SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HAPPY!

    HE CALLED ME!!!

    Wait. Let’s give a background: My friend who also posts sometimes on this blog encouraged me to call this guy’s mom. I am financially reponsible for some stuff that he has to take care of… this is because I decided to help him when he asked for it… he was my best guy friend and also I felt in love with him…

    ANYWAYS… he hadn’t been taking care of it and I felt scared and awful… I felt horrible thinking about calling his mom… it felt humiliating and i felt afraid… I realized how afraid i felt of him being angry at me even now when he hasn’t talked to me for so long….

    Well… I DID CALL! Thank you friend… and didn’t get a hold of his mom but his sister who was mad at me… except this time she acted nice! This was such a big deal because i felt TERRIFIED that his sister would answer… and she did…

    Then… HE CALLED ME! He hasn’t called me in forever (this is guy who’s having a baby and the reason I turned to Rori lol)…

    He said… first off how have you been… are you happy? I said yeah… I feel happy but stressed… he said outside of the stuff we’re talking about I said yea…

    then he talked to me about the stuff he has to take care of… and asked for a ride to take care of it… I said maybe if im free…

    he said he wants to take care of it because he doesn’t want to put me in a bad position… he’s been getting my bs messages (I left a message a few weeks ago that I felt really angry)…

    He said I don’t deserve to be put in a bad position because I’ve never put him in one… in fact i’ve been more there than anyone else!

    I said yeah

    at the end of the convo he said he’ll call me tommorrow or else to call him the day after (to take care of this situation).

    he said love you… i said love you too…

    What do you guys think?

    BTW THis is the love of my life ufff… though any second now he’s gonna have a baby with this other girl… and we’re actually friends… and he hasn’t been speaking to me…

    Anyway I felt happy and I choose to feel happy… I feel like I was pretty well in my feelings and him initiating calls to me is definitely good…



  179.  #179Ann on July 6, 2009 at 7:32 pm

    Terrence you said:” I obviously would want her to comply by showing it in a way that I could interpret and if she didn’t then we would be done. She wouldn’t know this unless I told her though thats why communication is very important.”

    What would be some ways you could interpret?

    I hope you don’t mind me asking I’m trying to learn from a man’s perspective.



  180.  #180Ann on July 6, 2009 at 7:39 pm

    Erika says:
    We didn’t go on a “date,” but Terrance was very chivalrous to me as a friend, and I really, really appreciated it. He’s the kind of guy I feel safe getting physically close to … he feels like a man, like he can handle it

    AWW Erika it would feel great to have that kind of man around all the time. I’m talking in all relationships-lovers, family, friends….

    Daria says:
    Anyway I felt happy and I choose to feel happy… I feel like I was pretty well in my feelings and him initiating calls to me is definitely good…

    I feel that says it all YAY for you.



  181.  #181Tina on July 6, 2009 at 7:42 pm

    I’m to busy doing my FEELINGS homework to pay, that is enough energy for me. If he asked me to pay half, I would simply say “I feel masculine”, I would FEEL kinda like he was my bitch. I feel I would lose respect for a man that didnt pay for my dinner. Do not feed me if he thinks that way about it then. Does taking me out to dinner put me in the “relationship catagory” – I think not. A cheap date such as a “walk on the beach” isn’t going to do it for me , I’m afraid…

    I say, Man up and spend that extra money! I would feel more respect for you , that does not mean however that I will choose you as a life partner or a simple roll in the hay unless of course you have a huge penis lol…then we’ll talk about how I feel about that.

    yes,yes I have coped an attitude, I feel attitudy today 🙂



  182.  #182Tina on July 6, 2009 at 7:57 pm

    I would never get in to a discussion with a man about how pays before the “dinner” I would just assume he is paying. I never had to for that matter. If I did find myself having to go there then I would cop an attitude of ‘entitlement” Men I’m my opinion want RESPECT, TRUST,POWER in no particular order, I dont think. Men have a difficult time giving up power, I feel. The POWER to influence is our job as women, I suppose. I feel this is what these guys are talking about. I feel if a man does not give us the power to influence then he is just “shooting himself in the foot” for ex; i had to set up a screen tent for my business, i couldnt figure it out, the instructions and all. Two security guards came along and helped me -this did not go unnoticed by me of course. I told them how smart and powerful men they were, I bragged them up, all the while, they flexed, they strutted, THEY WERE MINE ALL WEEKEND, THEY DID ANYTHING I ASKED.



  183.  #183Tina on July 6, 2009 at 8:10 pm

    I felt intuitively my ‘boyfriend” was growing somewhat distant – he is distant – oh he is a challenge. I like a challenge ugh!
    We talked about something I cant remember what exactly. I said “oh does that mean you’ve outgrown your usefulness to me,” he gave me an odd look almost panic stricken. I said further, the sink is leaky, i feel frustrated that doing the dishes,is going to create more mold. Off to the hardware store he went( three trips, to buy me a new faucet and he installed it, now I’m not entirely sure if it is fixed but I do respect his efforts and showed him how much later that evening…yeah.

    We had another one of my “feelings” discussions, I said to him ” I respect you”, his head almost fell off from turning it so fast in my direction.



  184.  #184Tina on July 6, 2009 at 8:33 pm

    I feel curious to know Terrence what are the “signs of appreciation” you are looking for?. I feel humorous 🙂



  185.  #185Terrance Thames on July 6, 2009 at 8:35 pm

    Ann-
    If we are talking outside the relm of money it really depends the woman. if I notice that she is doing something out of the norm to please me then thats all I need. I need to feel genuine appreciation though. I can tell now a lot of the times when women will just do a little something to keep me strung along. I don’t take to that very well.

    For me these would be some examples:

    1. Anything physical definitely shows me 🙂 (I’m sure this is pretty much universal with most guys)
    2. expressing interest in going out again in a situation that doesn’t require me/or paying for anything. (to me this conveys genuine interest and thereby convey interest)
    3. I can feel geniune appreciation too from your energy. (still working on this so I can miss this sometime. The offer thing helps me to calibrate when my intuitions are correct about this)

    If I come up with more I will let know but don’t hesitate to ask if you need a male perspective about anything 🙂



  186.  #186Terrance Thames on July 6, 2009 at 8:38 pm

    Hi Tina 🙂

    I didn’t see your comment before I posted but I guess you influenced me somehow 🙂



  187.  #187Terrance Thames on July 6, 2009 at 8:39 pm

    Ann- I meant:

    2. expressing interest in going out again in a situation that doesn’t require me/or paying for anything. (to me this conveys genuine interest and thereby convey appreciation)



  188.  #188Tina on July 6, 2009 at 8:47 pm

    I do feel respect towards these men Terrance, John and whoever else found themselves flinging themselves off ships to the shores of Siren Island. You are brave souls indeed. We learn so much from you, I date you all only if you pay lol.



  189.  #189Ann on July 6, 2009 at 8:47 pm

    Terrence ok you offered lol btw I have a mischievous sense of humor.

    I was going to say answer that age old question for us: Why doesn’t a man call when he says he will?

    But seriously, from your prespective how does a female get a guy to “hear” what she’s saying. As a man from your own perspective how do you react to a women telling you how she feels? No ranting, yelling etc…

    EX. I feel so happy to see you…. Or that really hurt with a tear in her eye?

    I’m going to have to get off here in about 10-15 minutes but I can read from my mobile. I look forward to reading your response. And I REALLY do appreciate you taking the time to respond to our questions. Thank you.



  190.  #190Tina on July 6, 2009 at 8:50 pm

    Terrance that means you have to call her in order to find out eh? if she doesnt express interest then you will have the self respect to know you manned up. good for you! I feel proud of you already 🙂



  191.  #191Tina on July 6, 2009 at 9:20 pm

    My intention is to influence , not to control I do however feel I have a great deal of leverage over my ability to influence, this does not however gaurantee your actions or the outcome of a situation. I feel all sexy and feminine when the outcome exceeds my expectations. I understand a mans capabilities in any situation, meaning can he man up in a particular scenario, does he have the ability, finances, whatever, childhood trauma, I do take this into consideration. I get the same satisfaction from a man who goes out and shoots a moose and plunks it on my doorstep, or a man who takes me out for dinner.



  192.  #192Terrance Thames on July 6, 2009 at 9:27 pm

    Tina- Absolutely! And I will pay if you appreciate 🙂

    Ann- So do I..And I would answer with the 2009 answer “He’s just not that into you” lol

    Seriously though. How I respond to emotions is typically through empathy. Sometimes I feel like I just need to listen and not say anything. Sometimes I feel like I need to be dominant put her in her place so to speak. It really depends on how I feel at the moment. I DON’T RUN/WALK/or CRAWL AWAY! This is a constant struggle for me and I am by no means perfect at this. I am getting better at it though. When I get the more intense emotions focused on me (Anger/frustration are the hardest for me to deal with) what keeps me centered is to imagine that I am in the middle of a tornado, focus on my breathing and go with my intuition on what she needs in order to bring her back into her feminine energy. Thats the easiest way I can put it in this stage of my development. I can get much more specific (breathing techniques etc…) but thats a good start. Thats how I coach other guys at least. Probably some of the best advice I was given on this was this:

    The more you understand about women the more you will realize that it is impossible to understand women.

    So at the end of the day I trust my intuition and it is usually correct. I hope this helps or if I didn’t answer something let me know 🙂

    Thanks for hearing my perspective



  193.  #193Tina on July 6, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    correction* I FEEL the same satisfaction, I FEEL all feminine and stuff. If a man is agruing with me about who is paying then that *switch gets turned off. We want instant gratification, to see our efforts paying off NOW! The dance could take awhile and guess what Terrance?, your the leader. How do you know (as a man) your date is a good receiver?. The “vibe” thing you mentioned – I say go with # 3, the vibe thing.



  194.  #194Tina on July 6, 2009 at 9:34 pm

    leg humping #1and asking you (the man) to go out again #2 is acting all NEEDY, Yuck!. I guess it works the same for needy men.



  195.  #195Tina on July 6, 2009 at 9:45 pm

    I feel all protective over Terrance now :S would you say Terrance you were a “feminine energy man” a “masculine energy man” ?



  196.  #196Terrance Thames on July 6, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    Tina-Well the leader gets the girl!

    1. If a girl leg humped me on a date, I don’t know if I would even trust her in my car. She might pee all over the place lol

    2. There are definintely subtle ways to convey that you want to go out again without actually saying it. Additionally I don’t see a girl conveying interest to go out again is needy. It depends on how you do it.

    3. is the most difficult for most men to pick up on. Ironically, I feel like that is the most natural way a women can do it.



  197.  #197Terrance Thames on July 6, 2009 at 9:50 pm

    Tina-
    Well you can ask Erika about that or read her earlier post, but I would say I’m a pretty Masculine guy.



  198.  #198Jody on July 6, 2009 at 9:51 pm

    Thank you Tinque! I will try not too!! Happy Birthday Ann!!

    Daria, I understand how you feel, He did call u!!!! I Feel thrilled for you! its good to hear about someone getting attention from the one they want attention from!



  199.  #199Tina on July 6, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    Terrance,
    My interpretation of what JohnSavage is saying is this, He wants to be/feel equal in a relationship with a woman he is considering having a long term relationship with, This I feel results in a lack of passion. The equals to equals principle does not apply in a romantic relationship. yes, I agree we can start out as equals (friends) however if and when that relationship does shift to a romantic one then the principle of equal to equal has to shift somehow. I feel that when a man says he wants to feel appreciated, is he wants/needs to trust a woman with his feelings of needing respect and power.



  200.  #200Tina on July 6, 2009 at 11:31 pm

    *What do you think?.



  201.  #201Daria on July 6, 2009 at 11:57 pm

    THIS IS INCREDIBLE… IT IS NOW JUST SINKING IN!!! OMG!!

    When Rori says men turn around on a dime she wasnt kidding!

    The guy I am talking about hasnt called me for months… he was telling everyone he is not talking to me… and I stopped initiating…

    NOW I actually had to call his house to stand up for myself with him on a very important financial issue… I was TERRIFIED of calling his house because am afraid of conflict with his sister as well as him now…

    well instead… I guess me standing up for myself by making the call zoomed me up into a different vibe in a parallel universe…

    because his sister was very nice to me and said youre welcome to my thank you for delivering my message to him…

    and then HE called… asking me how I am, if I’m happy, telling me I’ve been there for him more than anybody and telling me about the steps hes gonna take to take care of the problem I had called his house about… then he tells me he loves me at the end!

    OMG

    did someone read my mind and dreams and give him a script?

    I was just wishing for this like.. yesterday… as I was reading Twilight…

    I feel so excited

    this was not a dream this was real!



  202.  #202Tina on July 7, 2009 at 12:01 am

    I feel more in my feminine energy when a man makes my feelings a priority – not his feelings. In turn he has a soft place to land in my arms and act like a big baby if he wants to 🙂



  203.  #203Daria on July 7, 2009 at 12:07 am

    Jody thanks for the encouragement hehe… I wrote the post above so I can really relish this feeling… I feel like theres more of it i can feel happy about… it feels like its so like “nothing” happened but everything happened too…



  204.  #204Daria on July 7, 2009 at 12:13 am

    I feel guilty i am being mean to my men when I tell them i’m busy wiht a friend right now and also when I cut off conversations because i’m on a date.. I feel worried they’ll think im a bitch or i’ll traumatize them and hurt them… i feel worried this one guy i date is like traumatized and i need to nurse him back to being a man and i feel weird and ick and crazy… and i fee lgood writing this down…

    So I leaned back but it was the Boundaries… the really standing up for myself that got him… I guess when he saw me calling his house it registered on a different vibe than the “desperate whatever girl im mad at” i was on before… so now he calls with his shit together… because I showed that I CARED about myself too… and I wasn’t intimidated to speak wiht his SISTER (yes I was) who he knows i feel intimidated by… he THINKS HE KNOWS ME because we grew up together but now I was on a different vibe because the old me would not have called the house… I freaking cried before i did and felt like i was being beaten on my body and tummy before i called… my friend said i should do it and i knew i should but i almost couldn’t / didin’t and then i did and all this good stuff happened…

    i was terrified he’d be mad at me and when i finally said I STILL have to take care of ME… then its like he changed completely and calls and says I Love you at the end omgosh…

    yay…

    next he’ll be proposing hehe…

    yay



  205.  #205Terrance Thames on July 7, 2009 at 12:15 am

    Tina-
    I would agree that equality in a sexual relationship is impossible. There are way too many variables to be considered. The value system is too subjective. I feel like you would almost have to put numerical values on every little thing that you did and compare them. If one person didn’t agree with just one number then your whole value system for the relationship is shot and you are no longer equal.

    I don’t know if I would say that there is a lack of passion from where Jason was coming from. I feel like Jason is a very passionate person. I feel like Jason, like a lot of others want to screen first so that they are not taken advantage of. A good friend of mine always preaches that seemingly every choice we make is based out of love or fear. I feel like this is based on fear for him. I feel that fear and passion can be co-existent. He doesn’t want to invest until he knows this. This, logically, would be a good way to do that. By finding a woman who is an ‘equal’ you find someone that logically puts as much input into the relationship as the man is. There are just so many grey areas in this equality thing.

    About the power and respect thing I feel the most powerful turn on for me is a woman’s ability to give me her trust. Appreciation to me is the doorway to that. Thats what I look for. I don’t feel the need to be validated because at this point I feel like I already command respect and have all the power that I need.

    Does make sense?

    Daria- congrats. I can tell you that when the girl i’m dating stands up to me and calls me on my BS I feel super connected to her. Its the main reason we are still dating. On my side of course.



  206.  #206Daria on July 7, 2009 at 12:24 am

    I feel triggered… someone is hating on ppl “who write like DIZ” UGH i feel so triggered by that i feel so triggered…

    ppl are like oh yeah thats so ignorant

    what the fuck is ignorant about talking like DIZ… that’s ignorant? that feels sOOOOO INFURIATING!

    I feel like that is hecka subtle hating on cultures and classes of people and I feel FURIOUS that its’ the COOL thing to do like oh yeah this person can’t spell so they’re opinino is useless that feels INFURIATING!!! I FEEL FURIOUS!!!

    I FEEL SO TRIGGERED UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    I FEEL LIKE CHOCKING THESE PEOPOLE AND SLAPPING THEMMMMM

    UGHHH

    UGGGHHH

    I FEEL ANGRY

    I FEEL ANGRY

    I HATE IT

    /I FEEL SO ANGRY

    I feel so full of rage I feel pinched in lots of different placees in cluding my throat on the right, my left side, my left thigh and my right face and jaw…

    I feel so squeezed and i love my squeezes and that felt like a lil sigh adn i love my sigh and my squeezing in my tummy…

    I feel guilty that my tummy doesnt feel free and clear and happy… i love you tummy… it’s ok for my tummy to be free and clear… you don’t usually think of tummys as being free and clear but mine can be now…

    i feel excited cuz i am getting more used to just up and exercising wherever

    right now i look like a very sexy just pregnant girl but i am working the look i feel like i am incredibly attractive… i am not pregnant well i just have a tummy… probably comes from bellydancing…

    i want to have the sleek tummy look and the bouncing butt that jiggles a little bit… that is the look i want and its cool because i get to decide and change my look when i want to… just like hair and i have been lazy in my past about doing my hair even though its shiny and gorgeous and i love myself and allow myself to find myself styling my hair fun ways effortlessly…

    thank you…



  207.  #207Tina on July 7, 2009 at 12:28 am

    Terrance, I agree the “grey area” is the mystery of love.



  208.  #208Tina on July 7, 2009 at 12:43 am

    I did say trust,respect, power in no particular order, ok so there is an order of things, makes sense yup. I trust you with my feelings?. is this how it works?.



  209.  #209Terrance Thames on July 7, 2009 at 12:44 am

    You got it!! 🙂



  210.  #210Daria on July 7, 2009 at 12:58 am

    I just worked out… my tummy feels great… ahhh… i have magical exercises



  211.  #211Tina on July 7, 2009 at 1:01 am

    Are you trustworthy?. Ugh, this is were the dance starts. I feel dread in my shoulders, I feel embarrassed, I feel self conscience, I feel un- feminine , I feel masculine, I feel mocked. This feels theraputic Terrance thank you.



  212.  #212Daria on July 7, 2009 at 1:03 am

    regarding going out for a “free dinner”…

    when I go out with a guy for a “free dinner”… i don’t do it to use the guy… actually i kind of feel like I’m doing the guy a favor… that is if this is not a guy I would normally date becaues maybe I don’t feel so comfortable aroudn him, maybe he doesnt have the skills to attract me, I’m giving him the chance of earning another chance to attract me by spending time with me… basically if someone is “using” a guy for “free food” then the guy already had something they needed to fix… BEFORE he had to pay for anything… otherwise the girl would be happy to go with him… not just for the food…

    the food is my excuse to my more bitchy self for giving him another shot at winning me over…



  213.  #213Terrance Thames on July 7, 2009 at 1:12 am

    My pleasure Tina 🙂 I’m headed out for the night. It was fun!



  214.  #214Tina on July 7, 2009 at 1:27 am

    I feel raw and unsexy and stuff. I feel extremely vulnerable to trust, I do so anyway, the lies I’ve told myself and believed is starting to come and warn me. I feel not good enough, ugh! I feel unsafe, I feel unprotected ugh!. self doubt?. yeah probibly , my inner dabe is coming back to beat me with the imaginary bat lol. oh crap, I’m going to bed, I have an appointment here at my house and i’ll only have three hours of sleep ugh for sure!. ok go away, I told you im sick and tired of you coming to beat me with that bat, i feel like squeazing your little fkn throat and throwing your bat away, ok ok, i’ll stop, i promise, just dont throw me out ok, hm ok I wont , just fuck off for once!. Give me that bat so i can knock you on the head for once. nooooooooo its mine!. you piss me off you know, i hate it when you do this to me, stop bothering me. SEE THIS IMAGINARY ROCK, IM GOING TO THROW IT AT YOU INSTEAD, NOW FCK OFF. I FEEL BAD NOW, MY LITTLE FRIEND IS GOING AWAY ALL DEJECTED LOOKING. GOOD , THAT LITTLE BASTARD HAD IT COMING, I WISH HE WOULD JUST FOR ONCE BEHAVE HIMSELF. I TAKE HIM ON DATES IF HE PROMISES TO BEHAVE, lol ok going to bed now , I feel embarressed , fck it I’m going to bed good night all.



  215.  #215Daria on July 7, 2009 at 12:18 pm

    Tina – lol… aww i feel sad for your dejected friend. On Toxic Men Rori has an exercise called Visit your Stranger… which has us talk to the part of us that we feel bad about… like bat guy… and give/him her a hug and a Rose… the way a man woudl on a date (mine get very flustered and kind of melt at the rose)…. then tell them that we love them, that WE’RE in charge, and that we want to be friends, will they help us be more whole…

    then we leave (even if we feel guilty bad about leaving the stranger, the stranger might cry or might be happy) but we’ll be friends now and can visit them again

    Love that exercise



  216.  #216Tina on July 7, 2009 at 1:42 pm

    lol daria, thanks, I will do that next time he comes around. I feel he is a male lol. when I try to hug him he struggles and runs away until next time. He screams real loud when he doesnt get his way for feels not listened and is not running the show. lol. he is a pain in the ass! I feel overwhelmed at times, when I sit and listen to his rants about how useless I am or worthless. Im going to a big event in august(for me anyway) he will want to come, he’ll be dressed up lol. he’ll want to be my “date” he thinks he’s my protector , crazy, anyway i had my appointment this morning , we went out for lunch, I had a “holy moment” money, greed and cultural encoding anyway…

    I need another nap, to much thinking ugh!. thanks daria, thank you for reminding me of our “little people”



  217.  #217Ann on July 7, 2009 at 5:29 pm

    Terence said:
    About the power and respect thing I feel the most powerful turn on for me is a woman’s ability to give me her trust.

    I’ve heard this before. For me trust is a hard thing. I have a problem(because of background) trusting anyone 100%



  218.  #218Ann on July 7, 2009 at 5:37 pm

    Have a question for Terrence and all the guys who’d like to share. Would also like to know what the ladies feel.

    According to Relationship expert Bob Grant below are 3 lies about guys.

    Lie #1: Men Aren’t Romantic
    Lie #2: Men Can’t Be Faithful
    Lie #3: Men don’t express their emotions

    Agree, disagree what do you think?



  219.  #219tinque on July 7, 2009 at 6:09 pm

    #1 and #2 are so not true and as for #3, men do express their emotions just not like we do, so when they do, a woman could miss it until and unless she becomes attuned to how her man does so.



  220.  #220Ann on July 7, 2009 at 6:14 pm

    So Tinque you agree with Bob. I also agree but feel the bad is what I see around me so often. Thereforth these lies look “true.”



  221.  #221tinque on July 7, 2009 at 6:22 pm

    Well everyone is different and has varying baggage. There are a great many men and women too who carry a lot of fear, so much so that to do the work that the women here do and the men who come to visit here too, is mostly impossible. It’s too hard. It hurts too much. It’s just too scary uncovering the demons inside.
    So what you see around you so much are men as outlined above, but women too become that way as well, or something like it, but it may look different.
    I say all men and all women have the ability and the capacity. It all depends on how deep they want to go within.
    I feel too that in a loving love relationship these attributes can be aroused given the “right” partner.



  222.  #222Nikita on July 7, 2009 at 6:55 pm

    WT*!,

    I Know trust is sexy, and I feel good about the idea but it feels so scary to take a man at his word and more so if he’s indecisive! Did he lie? Or just change his mind???
    I feel so frustrated! I just feel like destroying everything!!!
    I feel very frustrated around trusting men, I can only trust myself to replace him but then I feel myself putting my foot on his throat and snatching my affection back if I feel any inconsistencies in his behavior. For example, if you promise to keep your hands to yourself and you keep coming on to me to the point where I’m consumed with expressing my boundaries-I will rage on you!
    Can you listen??? Or are you a retard?? Ugh! It feels sooooo exhausting.

    Great thread! I feel in agreement with the ladies 🙂



  223.  #223tinque on July 7, 2009 at 7:13 pm

    No, no, no Nikita. I don’t mean trust anyone and everyone. And especially not right away. Trust is something that comes with time. If a man or anyone for that matter continues to be good to you, loving, and so on, he/she gains your trust little bit by little bit. If he has never given you reason to doubt, then it would be unfair, cruel even to withhold trust.
    Yet giving your heart to another, trusting them with it is a really scary thing.



  224.  #224Jody on July 7, 2009 at 7:59 pm

    ok, I caved today.. I texted him. and he called me in about 20 seconds. I didn’t answer, then he texted me. we chatted (via text) for about 5 hours straight. It was just about every day stuff and some innocent playfulness . I felt so happy just to talk to him, and I told him It felt good to chat with him. Daria, I feel like you did last night, like everything happened, and nothing happened.

    Would a guy not interested in me chat that long? I’m hearing so many inner voices right now, take it slow, give up, it was nothing.. I know get out of my head! and dont worry about tomorrow, but damn thats hard! What do you guys think?



  225.  #225Terrance Thames on July 7, 2009 at 8:13 pm

    Hey Ann-

    I would agree with Tinque. Those are 3 very broad assumptions that for the most part are not true. At least for a lot of people I know.

    1. There are a lot of guys that say they arent but I don’t feel this is really true.

    2. I feel like this comes down to an urge that guys have to possess variety. I lot of them either can’t resist the urge or the balls to break things off. Both are done out of fear. I don’t know if that urge will ever go away but, obviously not all guys give into it

    3. Men think a lot about rationalizing their emotions before displaying them (ex. How am I gonna be judged if I cry right now?)

    We also tend to display them in a more logical manner

    (ex. should I show her that i’m angry with in here in the mall or is it even worth it? I think Im going to just just tune her out and watch tv when I get home instead. Its earsier that way.)

    Also there are specific emotions that are much harder to display than others. For instance I have an extremely hard time displaying grief/sadness but I can display most other emotions fairly easy. Everybody seems different with that. Some guys are afraid of conflict so they don’t display anger very well.

    Hope that wanswers your question



  226.  #226Jody on July 7, 2009 at 8:30 pm

    Terrance,

    Thank you so much for your insight.. Its has been so awesome to get some perspective from a man. Maybe you can help me with my problem. Please be honest.



  227.  #227Ann on July 7, 2009 at 8:34 pm

    Hi Terrence,

    So you agree with the author these are 3 lies that are generally believed about men.

    I feel alot of behaviors(esp. negative behavior) are based in fear.

    I feel we also live with alot of double standards for both women and men.

    For ex. A man who has sex with alot of women is a stud. But a women who has sex with alot of man is often lableled a tramp. I don’t feel this description fits either sex.

    Another ex. It’s alright for a women to cry(as long as she doesn’t get too emotional with it) but if a man sheds a tear most people get real uncomfortable.

    Jody I hope you don’t beat yourself up. If it felt good to you enjoy the moment. My suggestion which is easier said than done, would be don’t dwell on it now. Notice what feels good now.



  228.  #228Jody on July 7, 2009 at 8:42 pm

    Ann,

    Thank you!! I do feel happy!! Im just afraid it wont last for long.. lol!!



  229.  #229Terrance Thames on July 7, 2009 at 9:10 pm

    Hi Jody,

    Your welcome 🙂
    I don’t know the entire story, but I personally would not text someone for 5 hours if I was not interested in her. And I love to text! However, I don’t know his intent for texting you for that long either. A little background would be helpful or if you are open to posting the convo and I can give you my thoughts.



  230.  #230Jody on July 7, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    Thank you Terrance!!! Its a long story.. He is my sons coach, and I had a question today, he answered it, and I teased him about another parent, and then he teased me about accusing him of having an ego. then it was questions about my son, and about how much he cares about coaching, and how I know he is a great mentor, if I trust him with my child, I can trust him with my life. it wasn’t anything to serious, it started to get a little racy and I started to feel like I was coming onto him, which I do prefer for the man to take the lead on that subject so I said that was enough of that! lol! by the end of the conversation (I ended it), wishing him a nice evening, and thanked him for being so sweet and that I was glad we talked. he responded same to you, and thank you for everything. I didn’t do anything to be thanked for.

    We have been off again on again for 5mos, both times he walked away when things started to become more physical, stating he doesn’t want to hurt me.. I defined that as he knows I will take it very seriously. I know he is dating someone else, and I am circular dating. I dont want to assume or guess what he is feeling, Im just very aware of my feelings for him, and my fears.



  231.  #231cookie on July 7, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    tina, I was triggered by the comment you wrote about your guy that fixed your faucet (I hope it was tina who said this). You wrote that you told him that you respected him. Hhmm…

    So now I’m questioning whether I respect my man or not. He is so feminine energy and it’s hard to say I respect when I don’t know what for. Do i like him? Yes, he is one of my favorite people in the world. Do I love him? Of course. But respect? What does that mean? I respect when he gives me money and makes his own little efforts to take care of me. But I lose my respect when he doesn’t check his mother for busting into his place or his family for not including or trying to play mind games with me or complaining to me that he is broke but giving his money away to his sister. I don’t respect that he is miserable that his job is not meeting his financial needs and desires but he won’t make an effort to change his situation. I don’t respect that he is not trying to make me his forever like he once said he wanted to do. I want him to be a man, a full man. I feel frustrated and judgmental like i don’t accept him for being who and where he is. I don’t want to change him but his femininity is not allowing me to fully embrace mine and after 8 years I feel our energies are so entangled that I feel lost in his. I want to be the freaking woman in my relationship, dammit.

    His birthday is coming next week and I always feels so excited but then so anxious around this time. I get excited because its the only time other than Christmas where I can go out of my way to celebrate him but then I get anxious because somewhere over the years I began feeling like my intentions were not all that pure. Like by doing all this things for him and making his day more special than anyone has/does that somehow he would love me more, most,only. Obviously this is not a subconscious feeling or thought but it is definitely dormant. In the beginning it was more genuine, like I just wanted him to be happy but now I feel like everyone bends over backwards to keep him from getting mad or being mad. I don’t want to be that woman. I don’t want to be responsible for his happiness or sadness or depression.

    I felt like I backslided this weekend over fourth of July. we had plans to spend the day with my mom and her guy and the plans were cancelled. he was disappointed but instead of handling it, he got upset and started rolling his eyes at me. I was on the phone so I didn’t respond but then he turned the music on and told me to leave the room. I left and then returned when I was off the phone. He still had an attitude. I didn’t want the day to be ruined, I wanted to spend the day together. I should have made plans with someone else and left but instead I went outside and asked him what is he angry about. I felt myself trying to make him feel better. I felt like the guy again for the millionith time. I told him later that I felt that he was a feminine energy man, he asked what it was and I tried to tell him but to no avail.
    Sometimes I feel afraid that he won’t be a good provider for a family or a masculine father figure for my children. I don’t want to be the disciplinarian and the father be the mother. I want at the very least to be in a relationship where I feel protected under my man and I consult him in the child rearing and decision making. That feels old school and good to me, even in my supreme independent, stubborn, rebellious and flighty self, I can imagine saying “let me ask my husband what he thinks about this” and he would ask me what I feel and not the other way around. I feel turned off. I feel empowered and deflated. Both. Equally.



  232.  #232Terrance Thames on July 7, 2009 at 10:29 pm

    Beautiful!

    you said this: “about how much he cares about coaching, and how I know he is a great mentor, if I trust him with my child, I can trust him with my life. it wasn’t anything to serious,”

    uhh not serious? I would have to disagree on that one unless there is something I missed. Sign 1. he cares. I don’t feel like a guy would even have this convo if he didn’t care.

    Im curious about this: “it started to get a little racy and I started to feel like I was coming onto him, which I do prefer for the man to take the lead on that subject so I said that was enough of that! lol!”

    Did you intiate this or did he? And he wasn’t reciprocating? Is that why you felt like you were coming onto him?

    And this: “he walked away when things started to become more physical, stating he doesn’t want to hurt me..” Sign 2. He cares but here could go 2 ways.

    Either he really looks the situation is fragile to him and doesn’t want to mess things up or he is more into the other girl he is dating and wants to see where things go with her first. I feel that both show that he respects you but at the same time is indecisive. If he didn’t care, chances are, he would not call/text you at all (unless purely platonic)



  233.  #233alias girl on July 7, 2009 at 11:47 pm

    i feel weird that a man is describing another man’s intentions or thoughts as if anyone could possibly know the iiner workings or motivations of another person. just because they happen to be the same gender. i feel weird that a lot of men often love to teach and put themselves in some sort of role of authority.

    i am a woman but that does not give me special clued in powers to see another woman’s intentions/thoughts etc just because i am the same gender. rrr.

    cookie i feel happy to see you posting and working it out.
    daria i felt excited that you were happy about your contact with your EX.
    jody i feel happy about your happiness also with connecting with the man you like.
    ann i believe men and women are created equal in their capacities for good qualities and bad qualities that you described.

    i feel relieved i am working through my own murky soup. i feel i am slowly unmasking all the hardcore defense mechanisms that have kept me alone for so long.

    i feel bad sometimes that i will choose to say things rather than not say them because not saying them feels like betrayal. but then i say them and alienate people. hopefully i will smooth out my delivery and maybe make people laugh or smile rather than bristle at my words. still if i have to choose people bristling or me betraying myself well i pick the bristle.

    i have bristled all my current men. ah i feel amused and sad at the same time.



  234.  #234Tina on July 7, 2009 at 11:52 pm

    Cookie , yes it was me that said it. I don’t feel entitled to have free parts and labor for my kitchen sink. I do know the monetary value of a faucet with parts and labor. I find myself slowly taking away what is rightfully mine, meaning honestly caring less about his feelings and caring more for mine, being a girl and all , I dont know if entitles me to anything. When I feel to say, ” I feel masculine” he would say, “what do you mean?” I just simply say , I feel like your my bitch and I look at him he says oh, then I say “I feel turned off” I feel safe enough around him that I can say how I feel.
    He’s really big on safety, I feel when my finger got squashed in the door, he took it personally, its’ like a quirk he has anyway, he shut down, shut up and became withdrawn then blamed me for having my finger in the window, he said I made him feel guilty, I didnt say any such thing. I just screamed out loud, “my finger is stuck in the window, I started shaking because fo the pain, blood dripping down my hand , I thought my fingernail came off, it didnt though. I screamed “I dont want to go to the hospital!” aaagh. I said that I would be ok, as I started walking towards the outdoor event we were going to when this happened, I said to myself, Tina get a grip , feel grateful its just pinched skin, there are people dying right now of horrible things, as I was thinking this, I walked up behind a girl, she looked to have third degree burn marks all over her back and probibly most of her body from what I could tell. Man , did the pain go away pretty damn fast,until later that evening when I asked him to help me put on a band aid. It triggered feelings of death and dying, of life partners and forever after , till death do us part, I was all over the map with my feelings, I cried a bit, I related all this to him , my feelings around my finger being squashed and his not helping to put the bandaid on, he did eventually when I showed him how I felt about it, I said ” dont call me when your dying in the hospital, how could he really?. anyway he put the band aid on.



  235.  #235Tina on July 8, 2009 at 12:19 am

    *taking back I mean- not taking away. Caring and compassion for myself. When I feel resistance, it usually means I am denying something I am feeling, resentment , I dont know. Resentment has no room for respect , i suppose. I’m learning to love my feelings of resentment and resistance, just feels so much better for me. It gets me in touch quicker.



  236.  #236alias girl on July 8, 2009 at 12:20 am

    tina i felt good to read your last post because i felt compassion and also triggered by my own actions and reactions sometimes and how i am all over the map over something that seems like it’s just this thing of getting your finger pinched in the window when really it has triggered all these other things.

    i wish i could have more patience for other people.i wish also that other people had more compassion and patience for me. though i don’t feel convinced my exterior facade and cover ups for my real feelings really inspire people to feel compassion for me. i feel sometimes i inspire people to want to emotionally hurt me. i feel i must deserve this because of what i have done. i feel sad.



  237.  #237Daria on July 8, 2009 at 12:44 am

    I am getting better at bristling. I have also realized that I bristled all along but unitentional, but only in certain triggering scenarios I felt scared to bristle. Those are the ones I now feel progress in bristling..

    for example a friend of mine tells great stories but then goes on an unreal STUPID SOUNDING tangent and keeps talking like youre supposed to take it serious… It’s hard to break out of his talking at that point and this time

    I said: You’re getting on my nerves… which was a version of a feeling message at that time.

    I felt scared and gulity to say this. I ahve been working on feeling guilty and maybe eft ing it sometimes and I have realized that i feel guilt VERY often and hadn’t really noticed.

    The response was great: He says.. PAuse… hehe that was my intent. (hes a comedian)

    and then the conversation got fun again

    I also saw ex, the guy who actually called me. He said… Dee.. to say hello to me. His friend came and poked me …

    they were commenting on my shoes and he said… they are real right ? but as if he didn’t know.. so i said of course and then i felt good in front of them… then I realized he’s really good at that making people feel good or special… in front of others and its what i loved about him because he would praise me in front of people…

    that’s an awesome gift and i want it… so now I give it to myself yay… I can now easily make people feel great in front of a group of people and can praise them and set them up to shine just right because it supports them and feels good…

    cool

    he is very smooth

    I kept having to return my attention to me… Irealized how often when hes around or about to be I think about him and often make up bad scenarios… I kept refocusing on me… I realized I feel anxious when he’s supposed to be around… so I went with that feleing and did not hang around waiting for him to come back…

    I feel like I’m making progress at being the first one to leave … yay… I’m getting great at focusing on MY feelings at the moment like right now my tummy feels squeezed my lips feel tingly and hte back of my neck and skull feel squeezed too… I love all my intense feeling sensations and that feels likea big sigh…

    I feel very attractive yet kind of unsatisfied…

    I feel a little unspecial… I want to go on a very romantic date…

    I feel annoyed that all my dates seem to like me (one guy wanted to walk 3 hours to my house a little while ago) but I don’t feel good in my life because I feel concerned about money…

    I feel angry at money… I feel squeezed and angry… I feel such intense feelings… I feel sad… I love my feelings…

    I wake up feeling mad… i want the guys in my life to help me “get ahead” with my business and careers and etc etc etc

    I feel all full in my tummy right now and kinda frustrated like trying to run while having swallowed a basketball



  238.  #238Daria on July 8, 2009 at 12:54 am

    This one man got mad because i changed plans on him 2 weeks ago. I told him i was gonna drive and meet him but then i said oops my friend is right here in this city im gonna meet up with them i feel guilty.

    So today hes telling me how that was messed up. And i said I felt bad about it and I dont want to argue. he says im not arguing. I said I feel like im arguing right now and I don’t want to . I’m nto interested in feeling guilty.
    he says ok blah blah. I said I feel mad. I said I don’t want to be made to feel guilty for something i already apologized for and I don’t want to kiss yoru ass. He says im not asking you to etc. I said ok i feel mad . he said oh so im the bad guy now after i got stood up… but i felt good… because I was honest… I am tired of always being nice to this guy and its NUTS because he will accuse me of the very faults that i feel anonyed by in him… so i really stood up this time… and i felt clear… And he responded well… i thought he would like not talk to me anymore… but i think i did well to stand up for myself instead o kiss his ass… i felt strong… i feel good not letting people make me feel guilty

    yay… i feel so much less co dependent or whatever… im starting to speak my mind…

    I feel proud of myself… I feel like im really cool… I love noticing my feeling of guilt and just embracing it and accepting it and realizing that I don’t need to be ruled by it… yay…



  239.  #239alias girl on July 8, 2009 at 12:59 am

    i feel good to read your journey daria. i feel uplifted and like i learn a lot. i feel inspired and set free by your honesty. i want to be more like that. 🙂

    i wonder if linmayu and mercedes are lurking? hi lurking sirens!!!! come back to the island!!!!!



  240.  #240Daria on July 8, 2009 at 1:04 am

    What does Daria want right now?

    Daria wants sex

    What else does she want

    Daria wants to work out and feel strong and fluid and optimal plant stem juice running nutrient nutritious clear delicious

    What else does she want

    She wants to meditate

    (feels squeezing guilt feelings for not doing it)

    What else Does Daria want right now?

    She wants to be invited to get picked up to go to a social gathering.

    (I WOULD LOOOVE THIS)

    What else odes Daria want right now?

    ooh she wnats a call from XXX
    (that one guy who called me and I felt surprised)

    What else does Daria want right now?

    She wants an organized room and fresh sheets and humid air with beautiful plant and night smells.

    (Feel resentful ?Hard/block don’t have a humidifier want it .. urg… dad didnt get it for me i feel icky i feel angry i feel ashamed and guilty and embarassed and tight like im squeezing myself in a huge fist)

    What else does Daria want?

    She wants the Prince of Persia videogame

    What else does she want

    oh lets not forget she wants her bills paid without embarassment and horrible feelings from her parents

    ooh big sigh

    Thank you

    What else does Daria want?

    She wants world peace by more people learning to heal themselves and all at once we all do it and we’ll all be like HAPPY

    What else does she want?

    She wants sushi… tomorrow… ooh

    I feel squeezy and almost tears.

    What else does Daria want?

    She wants someone to talk to…

    aww I feel sad I feel pity I feel good and also bad that I feel pity for myself … I feel sad and kinda comfortable but also i think ashamed and hopeless and powerless…

    whoa I felt a strong quick sigh.. and now I feel yawny..



  241.  #241Daria on July 8, 2009 at 1:09 am

    More things I want:

    Clean kitchen that would feel like feeling really accomplished and like YEAH I AM Good at this stuff I have EVIDENCE … and also quietly pleased and also amazed

    To make tea tonite that woudl feel like I’m making a big effort right now to go make tea for myself for the morning and it would also feel like taking care of myself i bet I will feel happy afterwards (I reallized after cooking for myself this week that I feel really happy after stuff like that for me just like if a guy did it for me and that is nice to know i can do it for me too). Well part of me wants to sit here and part of me wants to do it and thats ok too… I love both parts of me…



  242.  #242Tina on July 8, 2009 at 1:35 am

    Alias girl,

    I feel I get my “dont fck with me, I have people like you for breakfast” attitude, haha I feel all superior and my warrior goddess wants to take action, I’ve learned to reign her in some, because what I really feel is hurt, could be my pride , femininity, self esteem. I feel I expect to much from others. I catch myself doing the “if you just know how i feel, then you would do as I say”, ugh sometimes , I dont realize it til later. Resentment is built up anger, bristly you could say. or is it the other way around lol , its 520 am here. I work tomorrow night so i’ve stayed up as long as possible, going to bed…
    I have trouble falling asleep when I am thinking, I have a whole film production going on in my head and I have front row seats, I can replay events any which way I like, when I ask my self “how do I feel?. and really feel those feelings, I fall asleep quicker, I’m going to do this experiment now when I go to bed, I feel compassion for alias girls bristly feelings. I have to stop fighting every one and everything – surrender to my feelings. I feel I type in circles now, I need an editor.



  243.  #243alias girl on July 8, 2009 at 1:58 am

    yes, tina i feel resonance with what you wrote. sometimes i get triggered and become very defensive and my Strong Warrior woman surfaces also. especially if i feel people are being purposefully hurtful. then it doesn’t feel safe or smart to ‘oh, i feel sad. oh, i feel bad.’ boo hoo. because if the person is doing it on purpose or mocking me then i already feel wounded and weak and don’t want to give them more strength to hurt me more.

    but maybe if i was just vulnerable and honest it would turn things around. i feel furious just writing about it. rrrrrrrr. i don’t feel a desire to be vulnerable in those situations because i already feel threatened.

    maybe i will experiment with it though. it just seems dumb and weak to be vulnerable to someone who is already trying to purposefully eff with me.



  244.  #244Jody on July 8, 2009 at 8:04 am

    Terrance,
    Im very grateful for your input!!! i know he is trying to make things work with this other woman, they have a daughter together, and she came back into the picture at about the same time we first met, She had just gotton divorced from another man. I know there is allot more going on between them than I know. I did set my boundries, that I wont sleep with a man if he is sleeping with another woman. I dont know about the platonic part, I was taught early on by my father, that men wont spend allot of time talking to a woman, without some kind of agenda, it either it be for romance, or his ego. I have no idea if that is accurate.

    When we were dating, one night things started heating up physically between us, and I said I want u, and thats when he rejected me. Yesterday, I withdrew in fear of being rejected again, I didnt enjoy that feeling the first time. He has to know I’m still interested in more, like u said, i made some serious comments, but yet it wasnt serious. I could really fall for him, but i feel its up to him, the door is open. it just really hurts at times not seeing him come threw it, because of my feelings for him. So I just keep living my life, and dating, either he will step up, or I will find the one, and look at him as a fond memory.

    I do feel happy! it was at least a positive exchange, laughs, and smiles… no drama, no blame!



  245.  #245Simply Shannon on July 8, 2009 at 2:11 pm

    Daria: I like your post about “free dinner”. I never really thought of it that way. Maybe I’m cutting off men I *might* eventually like but didn’t based on the first date. The way you’ve explained it, I wouldn’t feel so bad accepting a 2nd dinner invitation and could actually use that time to 1) work on my own triggers and 2) learn more about the man and maybe even become interested in him. Or worse case 3) “help” him by giving him practice at being around a Goddess. Very interesting way of looking at it!

    Tinque: “Give freely, no expectations, and you can’t but be happy.” Yes, yes, and yes. Well said. I have a hard time doing this in practice but I’m working on it.

    Terrance: I have enjoyed the rare experience of being with a man who can handle my emotions and not freak out. I am completely honest with my man and show him my true emotions (no matter how irrational they seem to me). And just like you describe, he stands “in the middle of the tornado” and doesn’t budge. What an incredible gift to be cherished like that… and it doesn’t cost him a dime to give it to me. He shows me how strong (re: masculine) he is in those moments and I feel so safe and very turned on…even now!! Too bad he’s out of town this week! 🙂

    Ann: Happy belated birthday! I hope it was a fabulous day for you!

    Tina: I completely agree with your “humping leg” comment! LOL! I feel uneasy giving a man physical cues (other than touching his arm or something like that – but I’m from the South and touching is just how we “talk” – LOL!). And I probably wouldn’t request another date, other than to express interest in response to the man’s request. So we’re back to “the vibe”, which sounds like is the hardest thing for a man to perceive. The only way I know to express my appreciation is by having a good time. I wonder what that might look like for a man to understand or “see” it. Ideas?

    As a newbie to this blog, I really appreciate all of the posts. I’ve loved reading how to speak feeling messages. Seeing the words in action is very helpful! Shannon



  246.  #246Daria on July 8, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    I’m getting contacted by lots of men, men from the past as well as present and maybe future… hehe…

    i feel non taken out

    they’re all like come see me, etc…

    i feel grateful for being contacted a lot and kinda blah for not feeling all special and taken care of…



  247.  #247alias girl on July 8, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    i feel excited after reading simply shannon’s replay of what daria had said. things sort of clicked in differently in my mind when i read it. 🙂

    yae!

    i feel very focussed in my life right now in focussing on the positive. ah what a great challenge for me. i feel very excited for when it becomes second nature/habit.

    i feel grateful. thank you!



  248.  #248Daria on July 8, 2009 at 2:46 pm

    I feel glad special for Shannon and AG noticing my words. I feel good and included and smily.

    I feel good about AG’s decidion to focus on positive. I want to focus on positive because right now I feel like I’m a lil focused on negative.

    Positivive stuff right now:

    Sun is out.

    I took my burdock and alfalfa.

    umm… lots of ppl are contacting me

    im feeling pretty good

    (i just sighed and felt good)

    I got to pay my bill that accidentaly didnt’ register 2 days ago

    I have 20 bucks in my account

    I still have gas in my car

    I’m sexy

    ( i feel kinda blah saying that… I feel like everyhones tryna have sex with me at ONCE ugh i feel like im trying to hard… )

    I can relax and do it for me, flowy and the way i want it

    I’m learning to release my guilt

    ohhh
    I just remembered i was watching an interesting eft video



  249.  #249Tina on July 8, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    Alias girl,

    My first instinct after I’ve determined if someone effed with me is to seek revenge. I can sit for a couple of days playing over and over in my mind how I can do this. For ex, this lady sent me a nasty email , I’m never around this womans company , much less talk about her in any way. I thought hm (just a thought) my sister helped me come up with this one – to dye her little dog a color she hates lol. I thought it was brilliant , we laughed. I would never do such a thing but funny nonetheless. Turns out she has a serious alchohol problem and I believe she sent me the email in one of her alcohol rages. I work in an rehab setting, I also live in a small town, so she may need my help one day. I did send her back an email asking her “if there was something I did to offend her” and left it at that, I do see her from time to time , seems more so than before lol. She never did respond back. I do believe we cannot go through life without feeling “hurt” I now love my feelings of hurt rather than resisting my feelings of hurt, when I am resisting my feelings of hurt, I feel my “instincts” such as dyeing her dog, which would entail kidnapping her dog, is to much work and just ridiculous – still funny though.



  250.  #250Daria on July 8, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    Tina you are so right on how denying hurt leads to too much work… when just accepting that I feel sad and bad and scared is the truth!

    Instead sometimes defensiveness can take over and i feel like attacking the other person… or their dog, car, house, mom, babymom, brother, reputation



  251.  #251heartbeat on July 8, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    gawd Tina I can’t stop laughing LOL!!!!!!!!! That’s brilliant! I feel like dyeing some dogs now, not for revenge but just to think about… hysterical! What a great way to deal with feeling pissed off 🙂

    Great comments and new folks on this thread, thanks! – sorry I’m just lurking, hectic schedule but I’m enjoying it, in the flowwww, exciting developments in work & life. I’m feeling buzzy and also enjoying a rest right now.



  252.  #252heartbeat on July 8, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    I’m feeling extremely grateful for Rori’s advice on communicating with a depressed man – having become aware of my emotional needs I feel increasingly comfortable expressing those clearly in a non-attacking way, I understand his feelings and I feel… And I’m having my needs and feelings accepted by him. We are both opening up more and feeling closer. I am also at a boundary with all this, but no ultimatums, just expressing, though it still takes me time and turmoil to find my words. He is finally getting help – I feel deeply relieved!



  253.  #253Daria on July 8, 2009 at 5:17 pm

    I’m thinking the reason the men around me are not showing up for me is because I am very poverty conscious. We… that is my friends and these men are all struggling with money… I am struggling with money and even my well earning family feels very concerned about money… a LOT

    I feel like this is from my cultural background… I feel powerless to change it all on my own… It feels like lifting a whole country on my shoulders and yet that’s what i want to do… lift a country… and i don’t feel powerful…

    i want it to feel good.

    Angels can you help me with that. Thanks.



  254.  #254Daria on July 8, 2009 at 7:47 pm

    So now both my male friend and a guy i’m dating want to come over at the same time and I had invited them both… so i feel a lil awkward… actually felt VERY awkward…

    I EFTd my guilt about not being dating guy’s girlfriend and feel better

    this could be good practice… i felt like relaxing… i want to relax… i can relax



  255.  #255alias girl on July 8, 2009 at 8:42 pm

    i feel really in tune with what daria wrote about letting the guys buy me dinner so they can build their ‘high qualityman’ muscles. seriously. if i did all i’ve done to become goddessy and become attractive to them then yes they can buy me dinner and i can be goddessey with them. and i’m not going to feel guilty because
    a) it’s only freaking money. it’s not like i can’t buy my own dinner. or dinner for both of us. that is not the point.

    b) them buying me dinner is part of their training to becoming godly. and they are signing up for it by asking me to dinner. if they were all that in the first place then i would say yes to any sort of date.

    otherwise i can’t imagine spending time with these “faux” nice guys who to me feels like they are really only fronting because they are scared of their full dimensional selves. “nice”is all they feel safe with. but it doesn’t feel like authenticity.

    but my question is when a guy asks me out and i wouldn’t date him unless it’s dinner. how do i approach that? only say yes to the guys who say up front…may i take you to dinner. yes, maybe that’s what i’ll do.

    i feel angry. i’m not sure why. i think it’s the “faux” nice guys i am running into now. it’s like knock knock hello is anybody in there?

    i feel mean.



  256.  #256Daria on July 8, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    I figured out something interesting about EFT. I want to record it here.

    So I heard EFT being described as Emotional Form of Acupuncture. I thought that the connection was that we are tapping acupressure points that are also used in acupuncture.

    Now I realize that there’s much more of a connection than just the points. Just as acupuncture stimulates points to cure a physical imbalance… by restoring flow to the energy meridian

    when a disturbing emotion is felt, due to a thought, a memory or other ways that the human mind processes concepts… … the emotion is felt in the body… like… tight lips… frozen arm, pinched elbow…

    so wehn using EFT on the meridian points, while accessing that “problem” while the emotional parts of it are bieng felt, then the flow restores and the intensity or in the body feelings about taht concept, memory, thought, etc… lessens, and we actually feel good or whatever our “normal” is about the thing that was bothering us

    so its pretty much Just like acupressure except that we’re “flowing” energy to clear blocks in the emotional body or the pysical sensations caused by emotions



  257.  #257alias girl on July 8, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    honestly my take on eft is that the tapping Ritual is a distraction from feeling bad. so once the mind is taken off the bad feelings a person feels better. it seems to appeal especially to the OCD type of personality because that type of personality seems to need a constant focus and immediate gratification, and most especially a distraction from the overwhelming or disturbing thoughts/feelings that are constantly coming up etc.

    that is my unsolicited opinion of eft.



  258.  #258Erika on July 8, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    All right, I was going to stay out of this one, but just before falling asleep I saw this and have to respond.

    I am so beyond frustrated with the EFT skeptics. If tapping were merely a distraction, then I could take thumbtacks and stick them in my eyes and get the benefit.

    Acupuncture and acupressure have been around for centuries. Why? Because they f-ing work. EFT doesn’t distract me, it tunes me in to my feelings intensely, so that I’m way more present than I would otherwise be. It moves emotions super quickly. Tears that are deeply suppressed will come to the surface immediately, and deep old sadnesses pass away in minutes. There is no other form of “distraction” that I’m aware of that creates any similar emotional effect.

    I’m so completely fed up. I have seen EFT work for me and countless others and I’m sick and tired of hearing people be skeptical about it, especially those who’ve never used it enough to know.

    ok, that was a rant. I feel better now.



  259.  #259Erika on July 8, 2009 at 10:08 pm

    The ego, with its countless “stories” about us, is distraction.

    EFT cuts through all the distraction to pure being.

    I feel liberated by EFT. I feel lightyears ahead of where I was, and I had tried EVERYTHING else.



  260.  #260Erika on July 8, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    I also feel really annoyed by the “Pink Elephant” in the room. The passive co-existence and pretending each other don’t exist. It continues to feel like it goes against everything we’re trying to practice on this blog.

    I’m all for direct. Direct, real, authentic, tell me exactly how you feel and don’t hold anything back, and if I didn’t feel like there were unwritten rules here, I’d be way more direct right now.



  261.  #261Jody on July 8, 2009 at 10:40 pm

    Erika,

    EFT is working for me, I dont care if it is acupressure or acupuncture, it seems to get me centered again when thoughts are racing, and emotions are running high. I just started practicing this about 2 weeks ago, so I’m sure with time I will get even better at it.

    You want honesty with no holding back?!! Ah this is a big one for me, LOL!! Right now I feel so aroused, with the very thought of “K”, (This is hard for me to admit) I can’t help but imagine how awesome it would be to make love to him, to feel him pressed against me, to run my finger tips across his perfectly sculpted body, to feel him growing harder, and more breathless. I want him to take me, to feel his hands caressing my body and finding every curve and contour.

    I can’t get these images out of my mind!! EFT isn’t helping with this one!!! lol!! maybe a cold shower!! lmao! I think I will take a cue from Daria..

    Angel’s I want to have these moments with the man that is perfect for me! Thank you Angels!!

    (Thank you Daria, you have been such an inspiration!)



  262.  #262alias girl on July 8, 2009 at 10:41 pm

    i actually deleted that post. i back spaced. i cleared it. i wrote it and then found it unfitting and judgmental so i decided not to post it.

    i apologize sincerely.i am being 100% honest. my intention was to delete that post. i thought i had. i did my best to. this same thing happened one other time on this blog and i had posted for rori to please remove what i had written (because it felt too revealing about someone in my real life and i felt that unfair even though no one would ever have known it was him)

    anyway. it never did get deleted and i had to live with it. just as i do now.

    i would (and tried) to take it back. I am sorry. though it is my true opinion i feel bad about it because my post is judgmental and derisive.

    i am sorry.



  263.  #263Jody on July 8, 2009 at 10:42 pm

    ok I just read that, maybe I need to find a penthouse blog!! lol!! and blushing!!



  264.  #264alias girl on July 8, 2009 at 10:46 pm

    i actually felt like oh goodness no when i came back and saw that it was posted.

    yae! (sarcasm) i feel funny. not humorous. just weird.

    please accept my apology to anyone it has offended. and anyone it has not. it was a mistake.

    sincerely, alias girl



  265.  #265Erika on July 8, 2009 at 10:47 pm

    I don’t feel sorry you posted it. I wouldn’t want it deleted. I would want to receive you uncensored.

    That’s what I’m saying. I would rather you say you hate me than for me to feel you hate me without you saying it.

    It’s the not saying it that is the elephant in the room. I can receive the truth and the authenticity, even if what’s being communicated is hate. But when I feel it and it’s not being communicated, when it’s not out in the open, it feels toxic.



  266.  #266gina on July 8, 2009 at 11:14 pm

    is hate feeling or judgment?



  267.  #267tina on July 8, 2009 at 11:24 pm

    Alias girl,

    It’s your opinion, there is a saying, If everyone likes you then your not going to enough places. I’m not sure what eft is, im going to check it out.



  268.  #268tina on July 8, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    hehe, did someone dye the elephant pink?



  269.  #269tina on July 8, 2009 at 11:51 pm

    I have never tried EFT. I feel ok with trying something once, it’s all about healing, why not?. Alias girl feels (i dont know what she feels) that eft is stupid?.



  270.  #270alias girl on July 9, 2009 at 12:25 am

    i found this website about borderline/narcissistic traits in men and women. i feel very interested in it as it pertains to me and some defensive ways of acting that i have acquired.

    i feel very interested.

    i had this experience with this man last night/tonight that is very much mirroring this new learning of myself.

    also i feel confused about what to do for a living. i’m not sure what would make me happy. i want to do something that will make me happy and will be a good experience for me.

    also i have been having a lot of experiences lately where i really have to let go of what people are saying or thinking about me. i feel very good to have these experiences though they feel painful in the moment. but i feel good to become less concerned about people’s opinions of me.



  271.  #271alias girl on July 9, 2009 at 1:11 am

    i feel closer than ever before to experiencing unconditional love. i used to feel very confused by the term “unconditional love”.

    i feel unable to adequately describe this new awakening. i can say i feel very grateful.

    i feel excited about the rest of my life journey as it seems to have taken a very nice turn here, triggered by this experience with this one guy that started last night to tonight. this has been an incredible month of experiences for me. co-created situations of great egoic pain and then ahhhh wonderful freedom.

    i feel so grateful to rori and rori’s tools. learning how to feel and draw boundaries has given me my life. oh my goodness. i feel i could cry. wow. i had been searching my whole life for relief and freedom from being in my cage.

    aw. i feel moved.



  272.  #272alias girl on July 9, 2009 at 1:14 am

    heehee i feel there should have been a great big orchestral musical accompaniment to my big aha moment that i experienced alone in my bedroom.

    maybe there was on some alternate plane of existence.

    🙂



  273.  #273Daria on July 9, 2009 at 1:29 am

    I had a very nice nite.

    AG sometimes EFT can work like you said (practically unoticeably) but mostly that’s the least it can do.

    When used in depth EFT feels like a major Riff… I can FEEL the emotions Moving and stuff magically changing…

    What I was writing about it above was that originally i kinda thought something like it jsut distracts us but I’m now realizing it’s more than that… It’s like playing an instrument with acupuncture points and we have amazing spots on our body that we can “play” or press and heal ourselves… and we can use this to heal the “Hurt” from emotions as well…. since we know we can feel emotions in our body as well…

    EFT has changed soem perspectives for me.. its kinda like an Alterna-Riff often, because you can tapp and speak each feeling and thought that comes up at each point… thats how you can get “deep” with it…

    I don’t feel like I’m great at going deep with it yet but I’ve had some breakthrough moments so i can really FEEL that theres a lot to this EFT thing that i could potentially tap into… hehe pun …

    Oh by the way I can now in my head tingle the points with my mind… and also I have “breathed” into the points to make them more sensitive… and I can easily imagine Magical Hands tapping on me now (at first was hard to hold this vision)…. so I don’t have to physically tap myself in public and stuff…



  274.  #274Daria on July 9, 2009 at 1:30 am

    Although I do.. I tap myself in the car ad I’m starting to feel more comfortable when ppl see me which means it’s starting to be cool… because I’m a trendsetter



  275.  #275Daria on July 9, 2009 at 1:31 am

    Alias girl I too feel thankful … I am feeling happy to be a free magical woman…



  276.  #276alias girl on July 9, 2009 at 1:59 am

    i feel amused. i just posted this HUGE LONG LENGTHY FOREVER post and i was all scared to do it and then i pushed the send button and nothing. poof. it disappeared into the cyber black hole with daria’s condom post and various other siren’s lost poofed posts.

    i feel very very amused. 🙂

    okee. the post i don’t want posted, posts. the one i bravely go to post, disappears. nice.

    anyway. i feel good. i feel thankful.



  277.  #277Tracy on July 9, 2009 at 2:36 am

    I feel confused…..I work with this guy i really liked in the past with whom i had an affair with and i caved in again yesterday…..he’s engaged and when i first came to this blog i really worked at getting my emotions in control being open with my feelings and i started circular dating and meeting all these new men…..I guess the whole thing worked so well the guy came back with no commitment obviously because he’s already committed to someone else……….
    Well as opposed to the first time when i was a complete wreck ,i don’t feel crazy about the whole thing…..I feel bad saying this but i don’t even regret it….I only feel bad that anyone reading this would think i am a complete nut case and a mean inconsiderate person….
    I feel that the only reason i continue to keep this going is because i feel afraid of letting another person in intimately….I feel safer with him because its already happened before…..I am dating and meeting a lot of other men and i thank God for this because my focus is shifting more to the outside…
    I feel that i have solved the part of me that felt tied to this guy…but i still don’t have boundaries and that’s because i haven’t decided exactly what i want…..
    I honestly feel that i should want this commitment sort of a guy not because its the right thing for me but because i feel right asking and wanting it…..and i don’t…
    All i feel right now is that i enjoy having sex with a man that i feel safe with…I do feel that i would love a commitment in the future with a man that loves and cherishes and wants to be with me for the rest of my life….but i don’t feel it at the moment…..I feel the need for the physical pleasure…..
    This is exactly what i feel right now…..the feeling/need for an adventure and wait and see……
    I read a lot of comments about the desire for commitment and a good man and it would feel great to have that for myself…..Most of my friends are getting married around this time…..for me…i feel i only got started getting in touch with my inner self….
    I was reading this book about the subconscious mind and how we create our present reality based on our thoughts and i feel amused that this is true for me…..
    Deep within my thoughts i have the fear of being committed to a person and mostly because i fear not being enough….so i create reality that proves exactly that…..
    I am working on my beliefs and love for myself…..the more i dig deeper into myself , the more i feel,the more i become aware of myself….I love the good and the bad….i cannot separate and i am done beating myself about it…..I want to get better and love myself even harder….that’s the ultimate goal and it feels right to know that…



  278.  #278Nikita on July 9, 2009 at 3:33 am

    I feel great :).

    I read the eft special thing, and I had a really nice release. I yawned a lot, and laughed at the past 🙂 so um I feel massive appreciation towards erika for making the info so easily available.
    🙂



  279.  #279Dan_Brodribb on July 9, 2009 at 12:42 pm

    Thanks for the replies and welcomes, everyone.

    I feel less-than-manly admitting this, but I have a pretty strong feminine side. When I was reading Rori’s advice, I even caught myself thinking: “Hey, I don’t remember asking you to FIX anything.”

    I’ve definitely had to work at developing that more aggressive, masculine side of myself over the years, and I’ve had some troubles in relationships, but I wouldn’t trade who I am for the world. If anything, I feel blessed because being comfortable with both polarities has given me a richness of experience.

    Also, the current woman I’m dating is a mixed-bag polarity wise, and I am quite crazy about her. But it makes me very grateful for my more feminine qualities because I wouldn’t have won her over without them.

    And yes, I pay for dinner.



  280.  #280Daria on July 9, 2009 at 12:46 pm

    TRACY! I feel so good taht you wrote that about what you want, how you want physical pleasure and an adventure and wait and see!!! Thats what I WANT! An adventure omg that feels GOOD…

    I never got it into words before because I too thought I should want commitment although right now I actually want sexploration and a feeling of wanting adventure and wait and see … still coming … amazing things… wonderful…. new fresh air that makes me feel young like I am the RIGHT age at the right time in the right place and that feels like everything was for a reason all along… this adventure and That is pretty cool… tahnk you so much for inspiring me…



  281.  #281Daria on July 9, 2009 at 12:56 pm

    Dan… I THINK a “hey i didn’t ask you to fix anything” is a pretty manly response to advice…

    actually one of the 4 Rules we have here to respect the man is : don’t give advice

    Rori was giving you advice because she’s being the masculine voice here since its her blog and shes teaching us …

    so your response shows that you have done pretty well with your masculine side

    I was chilling with a guy who is feminine today who im dating and he came over to my house… I’ve been practicing expressing myself and I feel like he’s too lean back sexually, and I actually expressed this…

    He said what are you doing?

    I said thinking

    he said about what

    I said I feel concerned… and i looked him in the eye

    he said what

    I said… well… I’m thinking of the words to say this

    well… then I just thought of… ok Feeling message + truth so i said the truth that just telling me he wants me isn’t enough and it would feel better to me if he was more agressive if he wants to do it…

    well he said thats not really his style… he doesnt want to feel like hes doing it if i dont want to… i said no we are on the other end of the spectrum … no problem…

    and I felt so relaxed about it that about 30 minutes later he came over and he did initiate and i feel all proud of myself now and I feel good about him too… yay…

    I’ve been feeling worried about that for days… and now it was all lean back communication, and not leaning forward…

    btw… like Rori said he does follow me around the house everywhere… it’s actually quite funny.. hehe…

    So I feel all proud like i’m helping him develop his masculine side by requiring it hehe….



  282.  #282alias girl on July 9, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    Dan_Brodribb – i feel good to read your post. i am a mixed bag also. i have strong masculine traits and also strong feminine traits and then a lot that are mid way in between.

    i used to feel bad about my masculine side. i don’t anymore. and i also tend to attract mixed-bag men. men who are strong but also really sensitive. i, too, would not trade who i am. i like who i am and feel excited to end up with a mixed-bag man. i feel excited about that.

    for me it’s just about finding the right fit for ME. 🙂



  283.  #283Erika on July 9, 2009 at 6:49 pm

    I felt major sad moving through me today.

    I feel exhausted about all the judgments that have come my way about the Jason and chivalry thing. I feel amused that Jason is being portrayed as a “victim” of my public statements when he is the one who took the discussion public, and he already knew how I felt about all this.

    I find it shocking that he described me as his “75% woman” and that somehow that’s supposed to make me more attracted to him. And perhaps a few years ago that would have worked. Perhaps I would have worked to become 100%. But not today. No f-ing way. I am already 100%. I’ll happily do a dance of give and take with a man who wants to man up and cherish me. But that man sees my wholeness and perfection from the get-go. It’s a dance of mutual wholeness.

    I find it amazing how much people reveal about themselves without even realizing it by the language they use. A man I deeply connect with would never use words like “equality,” “entitlement,” and “75% woman.” He would not talk about my energy in percentages or suggest that I buy him plane tickets. Those words and thoughts would never even enter his mind.

    I feel exhausted of trying to use feeling messages with everyone. I feel exhausted of asserting my boundaries with Jason. I feel like it has been a growth experience but very draining.

    I agree with you Daria. I get these amazing feeling riffs with EFT, and the most amazing thing is how my thoughts will change as the emotions are released. The deepest gloom and most depressing thoughts will shift to the sunniest optimism sometimes within minutes.



  284.  #284Erika on July 9, 2009 at 6:56 pm

    I like how Daria has started being so explicit with men about what she wants from them. I get frustrated with just leaning back because, all too often, the man doesn’t do anything either. All too often, it seems like he has no idea what to do.

    I feel exhausted from trying to teach men to man up. What I really want is a man who mans up without my needing to tell him how to do it. I don’t mind communicating openly, I do it a lot. But it’s frustrating to say, “I want you to lead, dammit.”

    I’m thankful for my blog because almost every guy I date reads it, so I have a way of communicating what I want without asking a specific man to do a specific thing. That has helped my love life enormously.



  285.  #285Daria on July 9, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    I want to share magical connection moments with people … even without smoking weed. That woudl feel nice… I feel like smoking is overdone (by me) recently and I feel tired from it…

    I also feel detached from enjoyment… like right now i don’t know WHAT I want to do. I feel worried that sex is going to be boring for me. Not VERY boring .

    I am missing super wonderful amazin feel connected to life sex. I feel sad.

    I WANT super wonderful amazing feel connected to life sex, and dates, and everyday living.

    I want a man that I feel squealy with delight when talking to him … I want to be SEEN and I want to BLOOM.

    Hm… I feel bloated and I love my bloatedness… hehe… and I feel stuck in my lips and I love the non movement of my lips and I feel yawning and I love my yawn

    I want EFT to work for me so I can easily dive in there and get to riffing



  286.  #286Erika on July 9, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    Rori is right. Love is inspired.

    Love is not dividing things up into equality and percentages.

    Love is the guy who over the weekend took me from crying to laughing in a matter of minutes by connecting with me. He was saying some pretty cocky, outrageous things, too, and I wanted to be mad at him, but instead I started teasing him back, and the next thing I knew we were in a passionate discussion about important stuff and ribbing each other the whole time but gently. We laughed the whole time.

    That guy “gets me.”

    Love is inspired.



  287.  #287Linda on July 9, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    Hi
    I should be in bed. I have to get up at 4:30.
    I need to write.
    I feel disappointment but not anxious or upset. Odd I feel that way.

    I have written here in times when I feel strong, times when I feel depressed and hopeless, in times of seeking and times of numbness.

    Life has a way of knocking me off center sometimes. I need to regroup.

    I have been circular dating. I had a bunch of men expressing interest in me but they have all fallen off the map. I dont really care. I had no interest in any of them really. Weird how the male species show up in so many forms and all act the same say with few variations.
    I have grown intollerant of them and their dabbling in my life for their own amusment. (this is how it feels to me anyway whether it is true or not).

    In the circular dating cycle I met one man I liked out of 8 since February. He is the one whom I wrote about, telling me “I was not enough” and he was in Search of the woman for him that “had it all”! I wrote a script about him.. it was fun to get junk off my chest about him…I went on with my life, had him on the back of my horse.

    Well after the 5 times of him saying he wanted a relationship and then rejecting me… I walked. Decided to never contact him again. Decided if he ever decided to contact me again, he would have to step way up! and prove himself to me period!

    After almost a month of silence… low and behold I get a phone call from him on July 3rd. I was totally shocked!!!
    He talked I listened. He said things I never thought I would hear from him mouth. Good good things!! I agreed to see him on July 4th late. When he came to pick me up I listened more. He told me things I needed to hear but never told a soul about them. I took it all as a grand confirmation I was dealing with my Mr Right that had come to his senses.

    There were a couple of things that were”must happen” to be real this time for me. 1) Incorporating me into his real life and 2) taking his dating profile down off the website we met on.

    He took me to meet his daughter on Sunday! #1 down and 2…. he said he was removing it but he still hasnt. The best thing is… I did not ask for either of these things he initiated it all. I took it as confirmation things were coming together finally. We went to church on sunday, went shopping, saw his daughter and grandson, he was sick yesterday and came to my home to recoop. We are going away this weekend.. at his leading…. he is intiating contact… confesses he needs me ….. wow I am leaned back but being forward if that makes any sense. It is all pretty cool. Is he attentive enough and will he win my heart fully… time will tell. Right now I am still in shock! Pinch me is it real? I will keep you posted.

    Hugs Linda



  288.  #288Erika on July 9, 2009 at 9:33 pm

    I feel inspired by your story, Linda. Thanks for sharing it.



  289.  #289Tina on July 9, 2009 at 9:42 pm

    I feel happy for you Linda, no matter what. I feel triggered by “no one gets to dabble in my life” I feel good to hear you say that. No matter if he does take his profile off a dating site, keep circular dating. Stay on your horse, we do fall off from time to time. “boyfriend” calls and asks if i feel like cooking, I said no, my back feels painful and I am not looking after anyone elses needs today, besides I worked all night and I’m still tired. I was feeling annoyed by anticipating his phone call, I just really wanted to be alone. He showed up with a tube of ben-gay lol and some chips and ibuprophen.



  290.  #290Daria on July 9, 2009 at 10:05 pm

    Reminder to self… when feeling icky in my body… T-tapp workouts help … a lot

    meditation also helps

    for emotional: riffing



  291.  #291Daria on July 9, 2009 at 10:05 pm

    Tina that’s cool how he showed up with stuff for your back! Yay…



  292.  #292heartbeat on July 9, 2009 at 11:22 pm

    Erika – hugs – I feel relieved reading your comment about Jason, I get a bad vibe reading his words. I don’t feel any tenderness in him, if there is any it’s hidden behind smartishness and sarcasm. No wonder you’re so fucking exhausted, I hope you’ve dumped him.

    Dan – now there’s a man! – I can feel a connection, I’m a mix of polarities too.

    I can think of a friend of mine who would make a beeline for a Jason man, but I’m more of a Dan-man girl. And liked Terrence and Matt too, yes I felt I could respond there – but Jason no no. I feel like his mama who wants to take him round the block and box his fucking ears.



  293.  #293heartbeat on July 9, 2009 at 11:26 pm

    Oh hey Linda – wow yes – I feel excited for you, feels like a step in an unknown journey, I hope it’s a marvellous adventure!

    I’m luvvin all the helpful comments on EFT, thanks.

    I’m luvvin the sunny morning here and hope to go windsurfing today.



  294.  #294heartbeat on July 9, 2009 at 11:31 pm

    Yeah I want to say more about leaning back too.

    Times I’ve thought ‘fuck it, I need to act here, say something etc’ – it’s been very powerful. I’ve reflected on this many times and come to the conclusion that it’s about energy, I’m really connected in to my ENERGY at those times. So I’m not leaning forward, I’m connected INWARD and following the flow of my energy OUTWARD.



  295.  #295heartbeat on July 9, 2009 at 11:45 pm

    I do like using feeling messages, though in a kind of British way cuz we don’t ‘do’ feelings in the same way – traditionally – but tone of voice and body language plays a big part. Anyway if I angst over words too much I lose my connection with my energy, though it feels important to explore words too and it feels important that it feels unfamiliar and strange at first. Just remembering ‘I feel’ takes me to a more connected place, I can express myself more humanly-womanly from there.

    I used to be a person-centred trainer and students would feel this same frustration at facilitating in a non-interpretive, non advice-giving way, but once they clicked into ‘congruent curiosity’ they felt free and present. I’m always mindful of the difference in a personal relationship – my own needs and desires, my passions and vulnerability – and communication that flows. I’m still a student there!

    I don’t want to lean so far back I’m horizontal…



  296.  #296Daria on July 10, 2009 at 12:04 am

    I felt deeply grieved (again) about something

    and luckily i listened to a heart meditation and feel calmed.

    I’ve felt in th past and also now that i’m given a huge task in this world and i feel powerless to fulfill more than 1 or 2 % of it, and because I can’t do my task, people I love suffer or perish.

    I feel glad that I am now giving myself love and imagined that well i will grow so big from my love that i will be able to do the move the mountain task with just the back of my hand, just a breath.

    Then everything will be ok even for the people that right now it seems “too late” for and the ones that have perished already.

    I would like help, lots of help and company in this. I know I like being alone and accomplishing by myself and am really afraid to actually be included and want it so much. I want to feel powerful as well as included loved full of company and also acknowledged and seen.

    I feel pretty good that what I imagine is what is going to come true becasue I imagined it.

    or maybe that means I am close to dying

    and that is ok too

    although i want to live. I want to live and be happy

    i feel thankful that my life is magical

    i want to record it and make stories and share and be seen for it

    i want to relax and be helped and held right now



  297.  #297heartbeat on July 10, 2009 at 12:14 am

    Hugs, Daria – phew, there’s someone on here and I’m glad it’s you, I was feeling all alone.

    I’m following your journey… xxxx



  298.  #298Daria on July 10, 2009 at 12:25 am

    Hugs Heartbeat. I feel so grateful you wrote that right now.

    I feel like it’s an answer to what I’m asking for above

    I feel good knowing you’re here



  299.  #299heartbeat on July 10, 2009 at 12:40 am

    Aw…. I gotta get up now, it’s 8.30am here! I feel a little sad we are on different timezones… I’ll check back later. I feel life is magical too, I appreciate you saying that, Daria, cuz I forgot when I woke up this morning feeling blue. I feel happier now.



  300.  #300Tracy on July 10, 2009 at 3:08 am

    Daria,
    Thanks so much for your encouraging words….I feel so relieved that someone can identify with my feelings……
    I do feel i am on a journey of self discovery….I feel more confident now and i am slowly learning to express my feelings more authentically….

    What Linda posted is a framework of the person i am trying to become…someone who is confident on the inside…i feel that in her words and it feels inspiring to know that it’s possible to have strong boundaries and be true to myself…..Baby steps i guess but i feel more at ease that i am opening up and being honest with who i am….



  301.  #301Erika on July 10, 2009 at 7:57 am

    Heartbeat,

    Thank you. I’m still using EFT to release all the feelings (disgust, sadness, anger, etc.) that were triggered by this post.

    A big part of this is not feeling seen. I look at the “Four Pillars,” and I see something that is coming from the head. Four arbitrarily chosen principles that, to me, have nothing to do with actual connection or love. And then the implication that “you don’t measure up because you won’t conform to my idea of equality.”

    I feel frustrated because from my perspective, the Four Pillars is an elaborate head-based cover-up for some simple feelings on his part, which I would guess to be:

    “I’m worried I’m not enough for you.”
    “I’m worried you wouldn’t feel fulfilled being with me.”

    But when it’s covered up by head-based thinking, it comes across as aggression and controlling-ness rather than vulnerability. It comes across as “I demand that you change and turn your back on your feelings so that I can feel better about myself.”



  302.  #302Simply Shannon on July 10, 2009 at 8:40 am

    Erika: I completely agree with everything you’ve written about the whole equality thing. I feel protective of you and anger over the comments I’ve seen. I also feel exhausted, and I’m not even emotionally invested in it! I realized last night that my comments on Jason’s blog are really a vain attempt to prove he’s “wrong”. Definitely a trigger for me and something I want to stop doing. It’s just not worth it. I feel bored by the back and forth and won’t be posting there anymore. Just like Rori is teaching us, I can’t fight with logic. I only know how I feel. And I feel completely TURNED OFF by this pseudo-equality thing. I feel surprised that there are men out there who would even suggest that I pay for stuff like plane tickets or meals. I am more than happy to give in a relationship (and up until recently have been over-functioning and giving a LOT more than I was receiving). Ugh, I feel my anger bubbling up. I don’t like feeling this way. I’m so tired of fighting, debating, and discussing. I had enough of that in my marriage, and it never changed the way I felt! HUGE lesson learned. Obviously I’m still working on letting go of my anger, and this issue has triggered me!

    It does help me to release some of my anger when I think of the 4 Pillars as a “head-game”. That makes them feel silly and amusing really…and sad in a way that maybe it’s just a defense mechanism for men who aren’t sure they’ve met “the one”? I don’t play head-games. While the man is making sure I’ve got everything on “his list”, I’ll be out having fun and meeting a man who says “to hell with the list – you rock girl!” LOL! Okay yeah – I feel much more relaxed right now.



  303.  #303Dan_Brodribb on July 10, 2009 at 9:59 am

    Erika, I’m torn up about how to react to your postings.

    On one hand, I can see how you feel betrayed and unsupported. I’ve never been in the situation you are describing so I can’t honestly say “I know how you feel,” but from your description, it sounds pretty sucky.

    On the other hand, and it embarasses me to admit this after Daria, alias_girl and heartbeat said such nice things about me, I’ve been known to engage in some Jason-Like behavior myself. I know what it’s like to feel hurt, threatened, or the urge to self-justify or protect my ego. It doesn’t excuse anything he’s done–and you know the situation better than I or anyone else here does–but I still can’t help but think that could have been me a few years ago.

    And on the OTHER hand (I have a lot of hands), I can’t help but feel frustrated with you. I’ve been reading your blog for a while, and I think you’re a wonderful person. I love your commitment to healing and helping others.

    And yet it feels to me like you are choosing to become involved with the exact type of person who can’t give you what you say you want. Which is fine, but it also feels like you know going in where these guys’ priorities are, and yet you get all surprised and hurt when disaster ensues. To me it comes off as a person jumping into a lake and being surprised and angry about getting wet.

    So I’m frustrated with you. I’m also frustrated and more than a little embarrassed with myself for being frustrated because I know a) there’s nothing I can do because you’re perfectly capable of making your own choices and being responsible for the consequences and b) you’re a complete stranger on the internet and c) It’s none of my business.

    But that’s how I feel. I also really hope things work out for you, because if anyone deserves happiness, I think it’s you.



  304.  #304Daria on July 10, 2009 at 10:58 am

    I feel frustrated…

    I feel defensive of Erika… I don’t believe in getting involved with the “exact type of person.” I feel triggered.

    I think PUA’s can be great people and Erika likes that they are interested in the things she is and also that they most likely WILL have the ability to pick a woman up ie.. ENGAGE HER EMOTIONALLY AND TURN HER ON.
    That sounds like a great “exact type of person” to put yourself around.

    Oh but they won’t commit to you etc… how do YOU know that??? If men fall in love and want that one woman who’s to say that a man who is able to attract does not. He does. Hello. Also he will still have ot make the moves to get Erika, becuase she’s a lean back Goddess.

    Um… the non-commital type of men are “out there” not just concentrated in the PUA community. I know a lot of real life players who are great guys and DO fall in love.

    I feel triggered.

    I also feel amused at men’s jealousy/judgement perceptions.

    Feels annoying yet pretty “normal” hehe…



  305.  #305Simply Shannon on July 10, 2009 at 12:06 pm

    Daria: I agree with alot of what you are saying but I wanted to offer a different way of looking at Dan’s post that helped me to see it as feedback rather than “judgement”. Try imagining that Dan’s post was written by a woman (for ex. me or Heartbeat or Alias Girl). It’s interesting to me that when I read it that way, I don’t see it as negative. I see it as a girlfriend’s way of giving me loving suggestions about something she sees me doing. Does that ease your frustration at all? I feel a lot less defensive when I read it that way.

    Dan: Thank you for being so honest with us here. Even though your comments were directed at Erika, they apply to me too. I appreciate you being candid. Sometimes we need that mirror held up so we can see something we wouldn’t have otherwise. And I’m stealing this quote “like a person jumping into a lake and being surprised and angry about getting wet”. Love it! 🙂



  306.  #306Daria on July 10, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    Shannon… thanks! I just did the imagine Dan is a woman exercise…

    I feel even more ANGRY at the judgement that Erika is “looking in the wrong place” from a woman’s perspective

    I guess I kind of “excused” Dan as I figured there was soem kind of guy competition dynamic going on in there



  307.  #307heartbeat on July 10, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    Erika I’m not surprised you feel as you do, and I completely empathise – I KNOW what it feels like to have that head stuff fired at me. Anger, frustration as the other person who as you say is stuffing their own feelings, tries to stuff ours too. It’s fucking painful too! Ouch!!! (Well it’s painful to me, I don’t want to presume it’s exact same for you).

    I feel a real kinship with you – Erika and Shannon – I really FEEL that, very powerfully. I needed to read what you’re writing. It’s making total sense, I recognise this fully. I feel some healing and release going on in me.

    Dan – wow – I can really FEEL you too. I’m not in any position to comment on the content, but I connect with HOW you communicate. I’m wow-ed by your honesty. That’s what I want in a man – yes yes.



  308.  #308heartbeat on July 10, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    Now then – I’m a very free-spirit kind of Siren as most of you will know – and I’ve been reading Jason’s blog for the past couple weeks, just to get a bit more in the picture. And what I feel is a great big yeuch… some of those guys ewwww. No no no no no. Jason – can’t understand a word. He’s from a totally different tribe to me. I feel on edge, uncomfortable.

    It’s not about agreeing or disagreeing, cuz I just can’t make any sense of any of it.

    I read Erika’s blog too, and Mercedes blog – and I perfectly understand what they say. It’s in language I understand. I learn what it’s like to be Erika or Mercedes (or Todd Creager – there’s a MAN too) and I feel free to decide what bits feel helpful or not. It’s no big deal yet it’s fabulous to enter another’s world.

    Dan’s comment feels very protective and caring to me.



  309.  #309heartbeat on July 10, 2009 at 12:32 pm

    ‘It’s no big deal’ i.e. if I don’t agree with everything.

    I just wanted to clarify!

    Words words words arrrrrr…..



  310.  #310Simply Shannon on July 10, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    It’s interesting to read a man’s perspective because it’s teaching me how to “hear” what he is saying and then “feel” what I feel and try to decifer my reaction to what I “hear”. I feel frustrated when I’m reading Jason’s blog but it’s good practice in theory because that is how men think! The only problem I have is that these men (Jason and others) ultimately have no emotional involvement with me and therefore do not cherish my feelings. That makes it difficult to expect I can influence them. Just a thought I had.



  311.  #311heartbeat on July 10, 2009 at 1:48 pm

    Shannon – I can see how it could be practice – but what for? For feeling frustrated? I’d rather stick my head in a vat of boiling oil. Actually no – and my sarcasm isn’t directed at you, by the way! – no, I’d rather be around men I can hear and feel EASILY. I don’t want to put myself through all that trying.



  312.  #312Simply Shannon on July 10, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    🙂 Heartbeat – Sometimes talking to men can feel just like sticking my head in a vat of boiling oil! LOL! There are the men we love and who cherish us (LOVE them) and then there are the men in our lives who simply don’t know us well enough to cherish us. I’m thinking 1st and 2nd dates or men we work with or men that we just happen to meet wherever. These men exist. While it’s great to have men in our life who are compassionate and caring, I know not all men I’ve ever met are like that. In fact, most of the men i know are more like Jason than I’d like to admit. It’s been very enlightening to me that men think like he does. And it’s also interesting to me that while I can appreciate the notion that men don’t want to feel taken advantage of (I completely get that), I also know how I feel about this notion of equality. In this particular instance, I believe it’s been twisted to act as cover for someone’s defense mechanism (Jason’s in this case). At the same time, I’m learning to react in a soft manner to this thing that would normally trigger a “get the heck away from me” feeling. It’s teaching me to be soft and negotiate my own “equality” rather than immediately have an outright reaction to his thoughts. It’s just been interesting to learn a different way to react. A man can absolutely think this way upfront, but *I* (the amazing Goddess I am) can influence a man if he’s willing to cherish my feelings. And if he’s not, then it’s okay for me to say no thank you. I’m trying to choose not running away but stating my feelings and really listening to when my feelings are cherished or not.

    Off to get my boys and hit the pool! I hope you fabulous ladies and gentlemen have a wonderful weekend! Shannon



  313.  #313heartbeat on July 10, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    Oh that’s so beautifully put, Shannon! I get what you mean, I’ve learned how to soften and connect with men I normally wouldn’t too. You feel very warm and very brave to me. i just feel so turned off by some men’s vibe. I’ve known ‘head’ type men but had a good vibe, it’s not something I can rationalise and I’m rolling with my vibe right now. I’ve experimented differently in the past and may do again. I hope you have a lovely weekend by the pool with your boys!



  314.  #314Nikita on July 10, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    Erika,
    I feel you.

    Ann,

    Happy Belated Birthday!!

    Nikita xxxx



  315.  #315Ann on July 10, 2009 at 5:13 pm


  316.  #316Erika on July 10, 2009 at 5:57 pm

    Simply Shannon, Daria, Heartbeat, thank you. When I read your comments, tears came to my eyes cuz I finally felt heard. Thank you for being protective of me.

    More triggering when I tried to post some comments on Jason’s blog to respond to some of the (not accurate) assumptions being made about me, and he wouldn’t publish the comments. Claiming he “doesn’t have time” for the “confrontation and argument” that my comments would invite. Yeah, right … my feelings are quickly moving toward indifference.

    Dan, I appreciate your wanting to contribute to my well-being, but I don’t find your suggestion helpful. As Daria said, I’m following a powerful intuition that my mate is someone I’ll teach with and that he’s connected with the community. Also, the issue here is not guys not wanting to commit to me. It’s me not wanting to commit to them. Plus, I date both community and non-community guys, and I don’t think generalizing about either group of guys is very helpful.



  317.  #317heartbeat on July 11, 2009 at 1:06 am

    Aw bless you, Erika! – I could feel empathy because you expressed your FEELINGS very clearly, rather than discussing views.

    You seem such a strong Siren and previously I haven’t felt that connection and protectiveness toward you – I’ve felt a little awed – and it’s a lesson for me cuz I realise I can tend to show my strengths (ahem… wit, intellectual capacity, passion, experience) rather than my vulnerability or scary feelings – and it’s never got me the cherished-ness I’ve wanted. So how many of us do that, I wonder? I feel the need for more than one of me lol!

    Oddly, I see Jason as a mirror of myself way back – getting into debate in a way that’s hard to connect with from the heart.

    It feels like you don’t have the same feeling-connection with Dan, but I love his candour, and the fact that he’s taken all that time to read and offer his feelings up on Siren Island feels very caring – he can park his car in my garage any time 🙂



  318.  #318Erika on July 11, 2009 at 1:15 am

    hi heartbeat,

    I’m so tired right now, about to collapse, but thank you. I feel a sweet kinship with you. I had the same thought today- like a mirror of a past self, and now I see why it was so difficult to connect with anyone. I told him that winning the argument often means losing the war. I have no interest in winning anymore.

    I still feel sad. Good night.



  319.  #319heartbeat on July 11, 2009 at 1:26 am

    Sweet dreams, Erika, and thank you. It’s daytime here (another sunny morning) and my big Irish angel is dispatching his cousin to watch over you xxxx



  320.  #320erromia on July 25, 2009 at 4:09 am

    incredible…



  321.  #321K-Joy on August 15, 2009 at 9:40 am

    I just read this blog….sheeesh. Two elements connecting “two” in a relationship rang out to me:
    1- it’s a transfer of energy between two people.
    2- some of us are inspired emotionally and others physically.

    This blog over ‘equality’ issues sparked a simple vision of two people, male and female, stranded on an island together forced to survive. Wouldn’t we simply do what we instinctively knew how to do? Then wouldn’t we learn from each other to contribute and grow to do more? I highly doubt we would be judging the other for the sake of equality; I would think appreciation and graditude would be at the forefront of our minds for the other’s contributions.

    Another clear message I got “again” from Rori Raye was we attract to us what we need to learn or refuse to see in ourself. Keeping our hearts open is good, but your eyes and logic must remain open as well. If judging individuals are always showing up in your life maybe “you’re” being too judgmental? If other’s are constantly pushing your boundries maybe you can’t see that you’re doing the same OR that it’s OK for you to push or be a little more assertive. Our instincts seem to guide us if only we would give them merit and follow them. I know, much easier said then done.



  322.  #322Rori Raye on August 15, 2009 at 11:39 am

    Welcome, K-Joy, and thank you so much for your insight and totally quotable thoughts…I look forward to reading more from you, and working together to baby-step our way into our ever more fabulous lives…Love, Rori



  323.  #323Uschi on September 14, 2009 at 9:40 am

    Rori,
    I am responding to your question above.
    Where do you stand on financial stability? Is it a non-negotiable on your list, or would you be happy with a fabulous man like Jason (and he IS fabulous – go look at his picture on the links and read what he writes) who is more spiritual/emotional/contribution-based than money-based? What’s important to YOU?
    I encourage many women to throw out their idea of “success” in a man…and to find out what’s really important and necessary. How do you feel about all this?

    It is just as easy to love a rich man as you can a poor man if you fall in love with a man. That being said, I feel it is important for a man to provide as best he can to make him feel good and masculine, however that has nothing to do with being rich or poor. What the man brings to the relationship is very important, I have known many couples who struggled with money but their core was love and being together and they worked things out together as best as they could. Important to me is that the man is there for me when I need him, respects me for who I am and what I am as a woman and equality to me is doing the same for him. Very basic.

    Any comments on this?