Evan Marc Katz, Circular Dating, Putting Off Having A Boyfriend And “Ted”

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Here are pieces of a newsletter from Evan Marc Katz – I got so many comments about it, and wanted to throw in my two cents:

“This week, I was on the phone with a client who came to me eight weeks ago with no dating prospects whatsoever.

But armed with a new perspective on dating, online dating, and understanding men (not to mention a new online ad campaign), this woman found herself in a new position: the object of desire to a thoughtful, considerate man.

Tara, 39, went out with Ted three times. Each time, he called her in advance, made the plans, paid for her, followed up the day after, and let her know that she was a priority in his love life. Without being over-the-top smothering, Ted made it clear that he wanted to be her boyfriend.

Yet even though Tara invested a LOT of money with me to ostensibly find herself a boyfriend, suddenly, when confronted with the prospect of focusing on one man, she found herself pulling away emotionally….

First, realize that men and women are no different. And although it’s easy to berate men for being selfish, for using you, for not telling you their true intentions, the real truth is: this isn’t a man thing, it’s a people thing.

I… literally have THREE clients right now going through the exact same thing. Three women with no prospects 8 weeks ago; now, all three are putting OFF having a boyfriend because they want time to date and explore and maximize.

I would probably quibble that they should consider the devoted guy instead of looking for a more exciting, unpredictable player on the Internet, but that’s neither here nor there.

All you need to know is that you have two choices: act with integrity and let your “Ted” go find a woman who’s into him, or give up on any sense of moral high ground that you might maintain when complaining about non-committal men.

You can’t have it both ways.

The second takeaway I’d like you to have is to internalize the idea that the guy who is keeping you at bay for more than 6-8 weeks is probably never going to step up to the plate to be your boyfriend.

So dump him NOW and go out and find yourself a man who is EXCITED about you.

— Evan Marc Katz”

My “Take”:

Guys – This is a whole different thing for us…..Circular Dating is not about “exploring, optimizing, keeping options open” because you’re not sure if a man “measures up to your standards.” Or because, now that men are starting to show up, you want to “comparison shop.”

Circular Dating is about healing YOU. And it’s not even about “dating” at all!

It’s about staying sane, practicing the tools, until Mr. Right shows up and you’re ALREADY in a place where you can handle INTIMACY.

If a good man shows up and wants to spend time with you exclusively, and you feel good and secure with him – then Circular Dating might be TALKING with men, dating yourself – but not necessarily accepting DATES off online dating sites.

This is all about curing your own fear of intimacy!

Circular Dating isn’t supposed to be an “escape hatch” for that.

Many of the women I work with are invested in men who will not commit – who aren’t behaving “right.” And Circular Dating cures the “addiction” and helps you be ABLE to be in a close relationship with a good man.

When that man shows up – give him the best chance inside you you can! That doesn’t mean TAKING YOURSELF OFF match.com – it means perhaps putting off DATES for awhile to see how things go.

What Evan isn’t saying here is how many times you’ve met a man like Ted who, after being exclusive with you for 4 months – bails. And there went your 4 months.

Circular Dating gives you a chance to discover the red flags of a man like this – so you can give a man a chance to get past those 4 months, to stay “into” you and to keep yourself sane.

It has nothing whatever to do with “Gee…this guy shows up, maybe I can do better, so I’ll keep dating….” That’s kind of “The Grass Is Greener On The Other Side” stuff. Circular Dating isn’t really about “dating.” It’s a therapeutic technique where you practice my Tools, develop your ability to stay present and in your feminine, receiving, open, warm energy – and give a man a chance to get to your heart.

It’s about – yes “fixing” the parts of us that veer towards a toxic relationship out of habit and survival instincts buried in us long ago.

So – what Evan says about giving a good man a chance is TRUE! He’s saying – yes – give a good man a chance… and I agree.

Circular Dating is what you do until you feel CONFIDENT and SECURE that this good man actually means business – and often, that takes at LEAST a few months.

I don’t want you using Circular Dating to push a good man away. It’s not a prop, or a strategy.

It’s about healing fear and learning lessons. About breaking up tension and learning skills. About catching yourself living from your past, and staying present and emotionally available.

I love Evan’s take on things – his style is so strong and different than mine, it complements what we’re doing here perfectly. It’s not “either or.”

It’s “All hands on deck.”

Love, Rori

Posted in


  1.  #1Femininewoman on January 17, 2011 at 7:46 am

    “It’s about – yes “fixing” the parts of us that veer towards a toxic relationship out of habit and survival instincts buried in us long ago.”

    I am so committed to fixing me that I am willing to day anything to get my happily ever. I set my intention.

  2.  #2Femininewoman on January 17, 2011 at 7:53 am

    Over the weekend I ran into someone I had dated, he sat next to me during a concert. I totally focussed on myself and enjoying the concert. During the concert I walked with him to a nearby deli to get something to drink and he told me he wanted to talk. He sat me down and started to talk about his life, the stress he has to deal with at work and his dream about being debt free in a year. Before we parted he told me next time I am changing my car I must call him up to help me. He also said how young I looked when I leaned over to say goodbye, “whatever you are doing continue doing it because you are looking so good”. While he was sitting next to me I felt him checking me out through the periphery of his eye as if he was feeling out my vibe.

    Yesterday at church a relatively new guy that I have not previously spoken to pulled me over and said how he liked me and how authentic I come over in my interactions. I believe that circular dating is actually helping me to heal myself and building my confidence and self esteem.

  3.  #3Femininewoman on January 17, 2011 at 7:59 am

    During the talk at the concert I tried listening at Level 2. I said to myself “I am over there with you”. I listened intently and looking back, at times felt intimated because when it was my time to speak I sometimes looked away or closed my eyes to get a handle on what I really wanted to say. He confided that he thinks of me as his number one cheerleader. I had mentioned some time back that was what I wanted to be for him because he has taken a lot of knocks in life. I was really surprised that he remembered to the point of using my own words back to me. I wonder if getting what I want in a relationship I have to tell the man in order for him to reflect it back to me? I realize that for me that feels really scary and intimidating. I guess that is what vulnerability is for me.

  4.  #4Lori on January 17, 2011 at 8:08 am

    I LOVE this explanation Rori! It makes so much sense to me this way because I see Cding as stopping men who are WRONG for me from taking me off the market. But if a good guy comes along who is stepping up CONSISTENTLY for me, then I would be ok taking a break from actual dates in order to give him a chance to keep developing real intimacy with me. The Cding as far as dating myself and talking with other men isn’t a problem for me since I meet alot of men through my job.

    This feels GOOD to me!

  5.  #5Mercedes on January 17, 2011 at 8:09 am

    I like this Rori.

    You said:

    “It’s about staying sane, practicing the tools, until Mr. Right shows up and you’re ALREADY in a place where you can handle INTIMACY.”

    And I agree totally. And I don’t think Tara is in this place. And…I think that’s okay (lots of men are in this place too) but I do agree with Evan…she’s not ready and he is…she needs to let him go (just as a man will let us go) because he wants more. When one person wants more than the other is ready for, it’s time to let that person go find their own happiness.

    I like both takes because I agree with you and Evan. We’re not so different from men sometimes, but those times are when we need to recognize our own ability to be toxic…just as we hope men will realize thiers. None of us (men or women) should be out there hurting others because we’re not ready.

    Much Love,

  6.  #6Lori on January 17, 2011 at 8:10 am


    Once you heal yourself, you’ll make room for the guy that’s going to be YOUR #1 cheerleader!!!!

  7.  #7Senior Lady Vibe on January 17, 2011 at 8:13 am

    Hello world, I’m grateful for today. I didn’t make the top but I just came back home with coffee, french bread and red raspberry jam, so I’ll survive…

    Brenda, looks like I fell off the wagon… 😆


  8.  #8Lori on January 17, 2011 at 8:17 am


    I agree totally with what you wrote. I was talking to a friend the other day and she was berating a man I had dated shortly after my breakup 2 years ago. Even a year ago, I would have joined in and pointed out all of his faults. But this time I just looked at her and said. “I disagree. I feel like he’s a really good guy who just met me at a really bad time for ME. Honestly, it wasn’t really fair of me to date him given the place I was in back then.” It’s true, I was the toxic one back then, not him. I just didn’t see it until now.

    I’m definitely in a place now where I’m no longer blaming men. I’m in control of myself. I CHOSE the men who treated me badly because I was afraid of real intimacy. Now I’m no longer afraid, and I feel ready and excited for a great guy. I no longer mourn the ones that behave badly or leave, because I just see them as clearing the path for something better now!

  9.  #9Femininewoman on January 17, 2011 at 8:19 am

    Thanks for that wake up call Lori. I actually had someone who seemed to have been doing that but there was a soul sucking ex that always seemed to be around and he didn’t know how to handle her or get rid of her so I recently told him to stop calling me. I can’t understand a man who is afraid of a woman.

  10.  #10Lori on January 17, 2011 at 8:21 am

    As Eleanor Rooselvelt once said “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”

  11.  #11Lucy on January 17, 2011 at 8:25 am

    That’s what I thought. Thx for clearing things up, Rori. 🙂 And SLV, your breakfast sounds yummy.

  12.  #12Amy on January 17, 2011 at 8:34 am

    Hi ladies!

    This post couldn’t come at a better time for me… I just went through something like this over the weekend. I had to tell the guy I am seeing that even though I want nothing more than to be with him, he needs to find his own path, and he can’t have all of me if I only get a part of him. So, I told him that I feel I want the option to see other people because I want that person who IS afraid to lose me. I felt scared to let him know how I truly was feeling (and not just be “understanding” to his needs), but it actually opened us up to an even BETTER conversation about both our fears and wants…and it helped to bring us a little step closer I think.

    Also, I sometimes feel like CDing is like the Rascal Flatts song, Broken Road, in which it says, “God bless the broken road that lead me straight to you.” That is how I feel…this journey of CDing is God blessing the broken road that leads me to my Mr. Right.

  13.  #13Senior Lady Vibe on January 17, 2011 at 8:44 am

    I won’t be doing this. I’ll be in circulation (gee, I hope so) when I meet someone new and I plan to continue that.

    If, as in the case above, the new guy says that’s just fine with him until I decide that I want exclusivity, we’re moving forward. I don’t have anyone like Evan who will make me dump new guy after three dates. Since it’s me, I wouldn’t dump new guy anyway… 😀

    I’m still learning but so far I’ll stick with my idea of a “season”…maybe a couple of seasons… when it’s time for the girlfriend speech.

    Just my opinion, not that of the sponsor, subject to change, your mileage may change.

    I love Rori and Evan.


  14.  #14Summerbaby on January 17, 2011 at 8:54 am


    I love your posts. Could you please explain your idea of a “season”?


  15.  #15Dorothea on January 17, 2011 at 8:57 am

    realizing i effed up everything with LI by not accepting exclusivity ever. i thought i was doing the right thing.

    but probably he wasn’t the man for me!

  16.  #16sandra villanueva on January 17, 2011 at 9:01 am

    I would like to know if i can gei it in spanish please?

  17.  #17Simply Shannon on January 17, 2011 at 9:05 am

    Ok. This is sort of blowing my brain apart… just a bit.

    I, um… I think I may have used CDing as an escape hatch… with Mr. Manly Man.

    Ok, I know I did this. Ooops. *Blush*

    I held him off because I felt afraid. Yep. I thought I was protecting myself from a toxic man (maybe some of that really was there), but the protection was needed because I felt afraid. Like what if he’s “the one”. And I didn’t know for sure at the time. Still don’t for that matter. Even thinking about it and I feel a little afraid. So much I still don’t know about him. Sigh.

    Oh well. Baby steps.

    I want intimacy.
    I want to be the real me.
    I want to be known.

    Yes, this feels good. I will baby step my way through this. I want to accept only what feels good and safe and loving. A man who knows the real me will stick around even when I’m feeling afraid.

    Mr. Manly Man gave me exactly what I asked for. Some protection, some space, some coming back to me in the midst of my fear.

    I feel happy and relaxed. At least I can see this now.

    I do still have some fear about sharing my life with someone again. That is the truth.


    I want to feel safe in a loving marriage.
    I want to grow old with someone and have a close family.

    Fear, I love you and I will not abandon you. Having you around brings me challenges and excitement and feelings of accomplishment for pushing through the fear and doing it anyway. I appreciate you fear! I will not abandon you. Sincerely, Me

  18.  #18Summerbaby on January 17, 2011 at 9:12 am

    “This is all about curing your own fear of intimacy”

    That’s it exactly. I fear intimacy because I fear abandonment. I push men away so I can be right about my belief that I don’t deserve love.

    Ick! I have been working on digging the roots of this awful belief out for a long time. I’m starting to see myself less as someone who needs fixing and more as someone who is perfect right now in this moment and just where I need to be with the growth I have. Makes it easier to find myself lovable and to treat myself with love. I’m also realizing that I need to be happy with myself by myself in order to have appeal to others.

    No wonder Mr. TreatsMeLikeGold showed up.

    2011 is already shaping up to be a year of massive change for me in many areas. My goal for this year is to continue learning to love me and choose happiness in more moments of now.

    I am grateful for this blog and all the beautiful women willing to share their hearts and lives here. I’m learning so much from all of you.


  19.  #19Simply Shannon on January 17, 2011 at 9:13 am

    I’m still flipping…

    I didn’t accept exclusivity at the time because the idea of it did NOT feel good. Something held me back, or I would have done it. I know this about myself. I would have said eff’ Rori’s CDing rule and accepted exclusivity if it felt right. But it didn’t do that. Why? Because exclusivity with Mr. Manly Man did not feel right. The reason may have been my own fear or whatever. It doesn’t matter. I listened to myself. The old me would have just accepted whatever a man offered!

    Yes!! I trust myself. Brava to me for listening and trusting my gut!!

  20.  #20Dorothea on January 17, 2011 at 9:17 am

    shannon…me too. me too.

  21.  #21marina on January 17, 2011 at 9:21 am

    Hi Rori,


    I am gonna reread your post and suck up all the wisdom.

    I think I am on the right track, babystepping my way through this.

    I don’t know if I am ready for a relationship even though I am in one right now.
    I know I have a lot of healing to do and I am glad that I started that here.


  22.  #22Senior Lady Vibe on January 17, 2011 at 9:55 am

    @14: Summerbaby says:
    I love your posts. Could you please explain your idea of a “season”? ”

    This is just for me, just my opinion.

    When relationship is established (not after just a few weeks) and guy wants exclusivity, I’d agree “to see how it goes for the winter, spring, etc”… whatever season we are approaching… 😀

    I’d concentrate on relationship without dating others to see if marriage was on the table but… I would not wait forever hence “the seasons.”

    I know of people who have been girlfriends, even “engaged” for years and they want to get married but there is no date in sight…

    So, if things weren’t moving right along I’d start up again slowly with the CD… CD myself a little more and then… accepting invitations… (I hope there are some… 😆 if not I’d have to start actively looking!)


  23.  #23Lucy on January 17, 2011 at 10:01 am

    Shannon, it feels great reading your post about Manly Man and your baby steps.

    “Mr. Manly Man gave me exactly what I asked for.”

    I am realizing that same thing with the men in (and out) of my life!

    For example, I’ve felt a little bad that my last date showed no interest in another date with me even though I didn’t want another date either! My NV’s have tried to say, “Well, there must be something unattractive about you then.” But the reality is that I’ve been complaining about all the men who fall for me when I don’t feel the same way and how uncomfortable that is and that I Don’t Want that to keep happening. Lol. So, essentially, I asked for men to not like me if I don’t like them. And that’s what I got. Hehe.

    I also completely resonate with this, and love the flip:

    “I do still have some fear about sharing my life with someone again. That is the truth.


    I want to feel safe in a loving marriage.
    I want to grow old with someone and have a close family.”

    Yes yes yes oh yes I do. <3

  24.  #24Femininewoman on January 17, 2011 at 10:03 am

    Meeemee are you still on here?

  25.  #25Lucy on January 17, 2011 at 10:06 am

    Shannon, I also have a strong sense of agreement with you about not accepting exclusivity with Mr. Manly Man at that time — for whatever your conscious/unconscious reasons. I think you will just feel it when it’s the right time — with him or someone else. <3

  26.  #26Senior Lady Vibe on January 17, 2011 at 10:07 am


    I want to feel safe in a loving marriage.
    I want to grow old with someone and have a close family.”
    Yes yes yes oh yes I do. <3…"

    I like this!


  27.  #27Amy on January 17, 2011 at 10:11 am

    Question: Do we always have to use a feeling message? Or can you get your feelings across without always using I feel…?

    For example, if a guy texts u that he is thinking about you and hope your having a good day and that just made your day. Is it ok to tell him: hi, your msg completely made my day. Hope your having a good day too.” Is that ok or should you say, “I feel so happy reading your message…”

  28.  #28Lucy on January 17, 2011 at 10:11 am

    Tmizz, I read your note to me. I think you are doing great. You seem very open to learning and to listening to others’ input as well as following your own feelings. Good stuff. 🙂


  29.  #29Lucy on January 17, 2011 at 10:15 am

    SLV – “…and guy wants exclusivity, I’d agree “to see how it goes for the winter, spring, etc”… whatever season we are approaching… ”

    For me, it was usually “the school year” – September to May. If I wasn’t feeling it by then, I was outta there. 🙂

  30.  #30Laughing Goddess on January 17, 2011 at 10:15 am

    Wow! I love this post…for many different reasons.

    I feel confident in my ability to lean back and attract men initially. My overfunctioning, leaning forward, masculine side comes out when I get involved with a man. Whenahistorical decisions more deeply affect me. That’s where I need to practice.

    If it’s just a matter of letting him decide where we go for dinner…no problem. When it’s a matter of how we manage our finances, or raise our children, that’s a different matter. And these things can’t just be talked about. They have to come up through experience. (at least that’s my current belief 😉

    Another thing I like about this article is that Rori touches on how we tend to be drawn into past toxic patterns and how really difficult it can be to surrender to a nice man. I am still struggling with this. I find myself still feeling attraction for a man in my life (I’ve mentioned this before) who is gorgeous, and charismatic but who I feel insecure around. This is my pattern. I tend to mistake infatuation with love.

    I still feel a bit confused about this guy. I wish Rori would talk about this subject more.

    I still feel confused if my attraction for this guy is my intuition or past toxic pattern. I would really love to have some closure on this.

  31.  #31Femininewoman on January 17, 2011 at 10:17 am

    Re 26 Amy sometimes I just go back saying “thank you, I feel remembered, same to you”. If I was in a relationship knowing what I know now I would probably say “It feels great hearing from you, Hope you are having a good day too”. I guess for me the context matters.

  32.  #32Femininewoman on January 17, 2011 at 10:19 am

    LG say: I would really love to have some closure on this.

    I have read somewhere that closure is overrated so I look at every experience as learning and no longer look for closure.

  33.  #33Amy on January 17, 2011 at 10:20 am

    Re 30@ Femininewoman: That is good… next time I should write something that like. I am still getting comfortable with not feeling weird using feeling messages in situation like this. Do you think it was wrong that I didn’t say what you wrote or just told him that it made my day? Hmm…

  34.  #34Femininewoman on January 17, 2011 at 10:22 am

    Hopefully others will respond to you as well but I am in a place where nothing is wrong or right because I am viewing this whole thing as a dance. Depending on the response I get, I change the step. My experience is that guys might leave but they come back, so I focus on learning what works. I am even prepared to ask what they liked or didn’t like. I even experiment on guys in the office to see how or if I can pull them in with attraction.

  35.  #35Lori on January 17, 2011 at 10:22 am


    RE: #22

    That’s exactly what’s been happening for me. I’ve seen alot of bad behavior recently and just realized I got what I asked for. I asked to be able to keep my head clear and my eyes open for bad behavior so I wouldn’t keep falling for bad men who “blinded” me. And also for something to keep me from getting attached to a man if he was wrong for me.

    It’s not that I’ve been attracting more bad men lately, I’ve done that my whole life. I’ve just been seeing the bad behavior more clearly now and seeing it sooner before I get attached! I got what I asked for!!!

  36.  #36Femininewoman on January 17, 2011 at 10:23 am

    Amy how do you feel about telling him it made your day?

  37.  #37Lucy on January 17, 2011 at 10:25 am

    “I still feel confused if my attraction for this guy is my intuition or past toxic pattern.” (LG)

    LG, do you mean you are wondering if he may actually be the One, rather than a past pattern guy?

    I feel curious about the insecure feelings you have around him…. Where do you think they are coming from?


  38.  #38Amy on January 17, 2011 at 10:25 am

    @35 Femininewoman: I feel happy because it was the honest truth. It did make my day and it was just want I needed to read.

  39.  #39Laughing Goddess on January 17, 2011 at 10:27 am

    Okay auto spell just made something very weird

    “Whenahistorical decisions more deeply affect me. That’s where I need to practice.”

    Should be

    “When HIS decision deeply affect me …”

    Something else I got from this article is that it usually takes a few months for a man to know if he wants exclusivity. That is the time to circular date to take the pressure of him. Once he’s decided and is stepping up in a way that feels good, it’s okay to accept an offer of exclusivity…really we are still circular dating (therapy) on a different level.

    If at any point, the relationship isn’t feeling right, then we can easily bounce back into circular dating.

    That’s how I understand what Rori is saying.

    Something else that jumped out at me from EMK is

  40.  #40Lucy on January 17, 2011 at 10:27 am

    I like the way Brenda used the term “resolution” regarding my story about TN man — it may be a subtle difference, but it feels more useful (and peaceful and surrendering) than seeking “closure.”

  41.  #41Leo on January 17, 2011 at 10:28 am

    Hi Ladies!
    I need some advice…

    On friday my Man and I went out. It was such a great night. We had to celebrate for I passed a very important exam.
    So we went to our two faveorite bars. The second we were at is actually called a “living room”. its very cosy, nice, couches, lots of talking – very nice location.
    So we were having a great night with some making out outside where he told me he would like to have sex with me here and now. We were kissing a looot (which i sooo much love). And it felt so great. I felt so great. I felt so wanted, desired.
    Thats how it used to be with us… you know… much sex, lots making out and kissing, enjoying ourselves.
    But lately he didnt want to do all this so much anymore. And I miss it a lot.
    I miss being wanted and desired.

    So…since this morning i am back at my place (here its 7.30p.m.) He is going to work soon.
    I feel like telling him what I felt on that friday… how great I felt, how desired, how wanted…
    Should/could I send him an email with that?
    I mean… my feelings are: I miss that and on that friday I felt so great, felt like “back then”…

    I dont want him to get the wrong idea. I dont want to pressure him. But I kinda want him to know.

    I mean, i told him that night. I told him how much i liked making out with him, and kissing so much again, i just love it.
    But it was a long night, quite some alcohol, and I dont want this night to go away unrecognized…you know?!

    So should i send him a message telling him how great that night felt?
    Or should i rather keep quiet?

    I dont know…
    Feel so lost.

  42.  #42Lucy on January 17, 2011 at 10:30 am

    “I’ve just been seeing the bad behavior more clearly now and seeing it sooner before I get attached! I got what I asked for!!!” (Lori)

    Very cool, Lori, very cool. 🙂

  43.  #43Laughing Goddess on January 17, 2011 at 10:32 am

    My previous post cont…

    From EMK

    “All you need to know is that you have two choices: act with integrity and let your “Ted” go find a woman who’s into him, or give up on any sense of moral high ground that you might maintain when complaining about non-committal men.”

    he says we have two choices

    1. let your “Ted” go find a woman who’s into him


    2. give up on any sense of moral high ground that you might maintain when complaining about non-committal men.

    That seems fair to me. I understand number 2 as, understand the laws of dating basically. Understand where men are coming from and how they naturally circular date and don’t bash them for it.

    Fair enough.

  44.  #44Lori on January 17, 2011 at 10:33 am


    Re #33

    Yes, they do always seem to come back. I’d love to be able to feel comfortable and strong enough to ask THE ex what he did and didn’t like. Because for me that relationship was perfect at the time, so I’ve always felt kind of blindsided that it ended and wondered how he experienced it differently. He still keeps in contact though, so I don’t think he’s ever truly let go, but he also hasn’t ever stepped back up either. So I’ve put him in the “imaginary” category and moved on. But I’d love to have the guts to ask him his take on me.

    For the rest of them though, I don’t really care what they did or didn’t like about me because I see clearly now that it doesn’t matter because they were wrong for me. And them being gone is clearing my path for something good on the horizon. And I FEEL it coming in a way I never have. I don’t know when or who with, but I feel it coming! I see clearly now how much self healing I needed first though, and I feel grateful I didn’t meet “the one” any sooner no matter how much I wanted to because I wouldn’t have been ready for him! Thank God for unanswered prayers!

  45.  #45Simply Shannon on January 17, 2011 at 10:33 am

    LG, I’m beginning to believe that every little decision is a preview of how someone will be when big decisions come up. Got a guy who waffles on where to eat? He’s probably going to waffle on a child’s discipline or financial matters.

    So for me, I want to feel good about his little decisions and trust that I’ll feel the same for the big ones that come along. Cuz just like you said, no matter what we discuss during a relationship, nothing is the same as actually experiencing it. Truthfully, many of the things I’ve encountered in my life/relationships, I never anticipated. My ex and I talked quite a bit about many things but no way could we have covered them all beforehand.

  46.  #46Senior Lady Vibe on January 17, 2011 at 10:37 am

    @28: Lucy says:
    “For me, it was usually “the school year” – September to May. If I wasn’t feeling it by then, I was outta there. ..”

    After reading posts on “no girlfriend” speech and some others, I thought about what would work for me. I felt nervous a few months ago when I posted my thoughts about giving a season; today I don’t feel so far off the track! Shucks, I’ll give the old boy TWO seasons. 😆


  47.  #47Femininewoman on January 17, 2011 at 10:42 am

    Re 37 Amy then you just “blurted” out your truth which is great if you did not expect an outcome.

    Re 43 Lori that really feels just reading how confident you are about him coming. I also feel really excited about 2011. I am open to the universe bringing all the good things I have dreamed of to the point I am experimenting with dreaming big.

  48.  #48Senior Lady Vibe on January 17, 2011 at 10:42 am

    @33: Femininewoman says:
    “…I even experiment on guys in the office to see how or if I can pull them in with attraction…”

    Could you share a few tips…? 😀


  49.  #49Amy on January 17, 2011 at 10:46 am

    @46: Nope, I just wanted him to know…no outcome expected. 🙂

  50.  #50Lori on January 17, 2011 at 10:47 am


    I don’t have any tips, but I could use that practice too. I come in contact with lots of men at my work-I should be practicing the tools every single day, not just on dates!

  51.  #51Laughing Goddess on January 17, 2011 at 10:48 am


    “LG, do you mean you are wondering if he may actually be the One, rather than a past pattern guy?”

    Ya, sometimes I do wonder. Just to be clear, there’s Mr. Charisma and LI. I am in a relationship about LI but I sometimes wonder about Mr. Charisma. And yes, I do sometimes wonder if he is the one. Mostly it feels like past patterns but there’s this part of me that wonders.

    “I feel curious about the insecure feelings you have around him…. Where do you think they are coming from?”

    I have this pattern of feeling insecure and unworthy around men I feel really attracted to. I feel unworthy, not attractive enough, worried that once they know the real me they won’t like me, lots of bad stuff. Mostly that they are too good for me.

    But also, Mr. Charisma has some qualities that I’m not really wanting in a man too. He has some amazing, magnetic qualities but also some unstable qualities. And also, he’s so good looking and charismatic and good with the ladies, I don’t think I could ever trust him.

    And I don’t know what is going on. Of this is all in my head…

    And also, I met him an LI at about the same time and LI stepped up and he didn’t. I get the sense that he is attracted to me, but I don’t know for sure.

    I would hate to break off with LI (I can’t imagine him still dating me if I told him I also wanted to see Mr Charisma. They are good friends. I would have to be prepared to lose LI)

    Anyway, I would hate to break up with LI to date someone who I don’t even know for sure is interested. He gives signs that he is but he’s also a huge flirt, so I can’t really take it seriously. Yet at the same time, this feeling of not knowing feels terrible.

    Sometimes, I will resolve to let my interest in him go but then next time I see him, it comes rushing back.


    I’d love to hear your feedback Lucy.

  52.  #52Lori on January 17, 2011 at 10:49 am


    Re #48

    That’s what it’s all about. Expressing what feels good (or bad) to YOU without expecting any outcome from the man! The good ones will step up and the bad ones will step down. It gets easier over time. I’ve been doing it over 2 years now. be patient and true to yourself and your boundaries. And always, always in tune with your feelings, whether they be good or bad!

  53.  #53Lori on January 17, 2011 at 10:52 am


    And don’t beat yourself up if you slip up, screw up or fall back into old patterns from time to time. It’s all part of the process…

  54.  #54Senior Lady Vibe on January 17, 2011 at 10:52 am

    @42: Laughing Goddess says:

    “…he says we have two choices…”

    I reserve my right to have more choices…

    That’s OK. I like having more choices. I make my own choices. Evan is married and a real famous guy and gets paid large sums for his relationship advice.

    I’m just a still-learning (but fabulous, I say) grandmother looking for a “lasting” (rather than long-term — I’m not aiming for terminal) romantic relationship…

    We all have our parts to play. I appreciate everyone’s input.


  55.  #55Lori on January 17, 2011 at 10:56 am

    I had an affirming moment with new CD guy the other day. We were discovering some things we had in common and I said “I FEEL so excited that we seem to have so many things in common!” and he replied “I was just THINKING the same thing.”

    YESSSSSS!!!! It felt so good just hearing those indicators that I was in girl mode and he was in boy mode!

  56.  #56Laughing Goddess on January 17, 2011 at 10:57 am

    In my head I know he is not good for me but my I still feel this pull for him.

    In general, Mr Charisma is a good guy but LI is more solid, stable, and really really loves me. LI wants a monogomous life long relationship. Mr Charisma says he does but his action look more like a man who enjoys the company and attention of lots of women.

    In his defense, most of these women break all of Rori’s rules. He has fallen for a few women who put up a challenge. So maybe he is capable of settling down with a woman who knows how to keep her attraction level high and stay in feminine energy. I don’t want to write him off as a player.

    But, that is my fear of him.

    Also, he makes somewhat negative jokes.

    For instance, last night I got out of my chair and I had a ling coat on that got caught in my chair. Mr. Charisma helped me pull it out and said “you’re being clingy” as a joke…because my coat was clinging to the chair. But that was a bit red flag to me. I feel weird and icky hearing that, even as a joke.

    LI does not say negative things about me as a joke.

    I like that.

  57.  #57Senior Lady Vibe on January 17, 2011 at 10:57 am

    @49: Lori says:
    “…I should be practicing the tools every single day, not just on dates!…”

    I’m practicing on guys that aren’t even “candidates” just for the practice. I think that’s OK, everyone likes a little company and fun conversation.


  58.  #58Laughing Goddess on January 17, 2011 at 11:00 am

    SLV: I agree. I reserve the right to have way more choices than Mr EMK has alotted me. 🙂

    But I brought it up because I thought it was interesting that he’s really only saying if we want to play the circular dating game we can’t be dissing on men.

    That’s fair to me.

  59.  #59Femininewoman on January 17, 2011 at 11:03 am

    Re 47 I just do what Rori teaches, I remove the “you” from my statements, I listen at level 2 and I share my feelings by using feeling messages. I actually started doing that because when I first came on the blog Brenda was flirting with someone in her office. I notice when guys go in their cave and have tried to drag them out. When they don’t come out I indicate I am available when they are ready to talk and they do come and explain afterwards. There is one that is totally taken by me the other day I told him how I felt about something he did and his response was that people around here are too emotional so I did not say anything further. He has not really come by to connect with me since then, he stays far and test my reactions. I have practiced pushing him away and then opening up when he comes back around and this has been happening on and off. What it tells me is that I really have power and can swing the pendulum in whichever direction I chose to. I have learnt that emotions are contagious so I use mine to see what I can do with them. I try out different versions of dropping to the floor and I do get responses. I change my emotions internally just to see what will happen and my colleagues come along on the ride. I have requested overtime with an agenda and it only works up to a certain point. When I let go of expectations I am offered overtime. I am really experimenting and trying to see what happens. I am curious…

  60.  #60Laughing Goddess on January 17, 2011 at 11:03 am

    Femininewoman: re:31

    I know 🙂

    I was kinda being facetious when I wrote that because I know Rori says give up on closure.

    What I really want tho is to feel clear within myself. This internal wondering feels bad.

    No me gusta!

  61.  #61Senior Lady Vibe on January 17, 2011 at 11:08 am

    @55: Laughing Goddess says:
    “In my head I know he is not good for me but my I still feel this pull for him. ”

    I know this feeling. Well. I sometimes feel its faint pulse within me, usually at unexpected moments…even though I “know” better. But growing fainter as time passes…

    “….LI does not say negative things about me as a joke…”

    I find that kind of loyalty very attractive.

    “…I like that…”

    Me too.


  62.  #62Laughing Goddess on January 17, 2011 at 11:10 am

    Lucy: yes! Resolution! That’s what I would like. Resolution is what I would like.

    SS: I agree that the ways a man makes decisions about small things can be a good indictor of how he will deal with big decision.

    For me, it not really him (that’s a generalized him) I’m worried about. It’s me. I tend to overfunction around the big decisions even though I can surrender to the small. It’s more about me practicing staying feminine in a more intimate situation. That’s where I need the practice.

  63.  #63Femininewoman on January 17, 2011 at 11:15 am

    LG Wonder is great. That is what I learnt from Gay Hendricks, and Christian Carter, I think. It gets the creative juices working and lets your intuition kick into gear to get you the clarity you need so I use it all the time now.

  64.  #64Laughing Goddess on January 17, 2011 at 11:19 am

    I’d just like to clarify that when I said “play the circular dating game” I didn’t mean game in a bad way because I don’t see cding as playing games.

    I meant that I feel better when I don’t judge guys for basically doing the same thing I am…looking for the love of my life.

    I think that understanding that men are usually doing the same thing, they naturally cd, feels way better than judging them.

  65.  #65Laughing Goddess on January 17, 2011 at 11:22 am

    Femininewoman: it’s funny. You picked up on two words that jumped out to me also as I was typing them…closure and wonder. Thanks for helping me to be impeccible with my word. 🙂

    I agree, wonder is generally a good thing but this wonder I have about this particular subject doesn’t feel so good. Maybe I need a reframe.

  66.  #66Senior Lady Vibe on January 17, 2011 at 11:27 am

    @57: Laughing Goddess says:

    “…But I brought it up because I thought it was interesting that he’s really only saying if we want to play the circular dating game we can’t be dissing on men…”

    Dissing aside, I don’t intend that, I don’t agree with EMK that men and women are on equal ground with dating customs.

    I believe “being in circulation” helps a woman even things out. I believe we have a disadvantage due to probability of biological attachment formation.

    Tradition dating customs provide men greater leeway in choosing in the field while women are more often limited to the “yes” or “no” of the chosen.

    If men and women were exactly the same in dating there would not even be discussion on who pays for what, we would all whip out our plastic and ask for separate checks.

    Not to mention commonplace advice that women should wait to commence sexual relationships. Is anyone anywhere telling men this? I think not.

    There’s a Rori post somewhere about women in circulation and men not… That sounds about right to me…


  67.  #67Lisi on January 17, 2011 at 11:30 am

    This is timely for me. My relationship with my ex was always on and off, and he just came to spend the week end with me.

    I focused on leaning back, and connecting into my feeling messages. We had the most magical, connected, emotional week end we’ve ever had. We kissed approximately every two seconds. We went out with some of my friends and he was PERFECT. We had the MOST emotional sex I’ve ever had.


    And then, he had to leave. Not because he had something he needed to go do — but because that’s what he does. He’s still looking for work, and did express that he wants to be able to support me. Also talked about his stress/worry that he doesn’t know where he’s going to end up.

    So, I leaned back, let him go, and continued to focus on my own life. He is bothered that his leaving hurts me, and is starting to see that more. I told him I’m going to keep taking care of me.

    And I’m still Circular Dating. Have someone in the email queue just asked me for a glass of wine.

    Oooohhh this is so hard. Oy.

  68.  #68Senior Lady Vibe on January 17, 2011 at 11:31 am

    @63: Laughing Goddess says:

    “…I think that understanding that men are usually doing the same thing, they naturally cd, feels way better than judging them….”

    So, men shouldn’t mind at all if we do it too… 😉


  69.  #69Lucy on January 17, 2011 at 11:32 am

    Wow, LG, there’s a lot packed into your posts about this. It’s a tough one. I feel empathy.

    “In my head I know he is not good for me but my I still feel this pull for him.”

    When I first reconnected with TN man over a year ago, I felt excited and happy bc it was so much fun and our interactions were thrilling on so many levels. I was determined not to fall for him, though, bc I just knew he was not right for me for the kind of relationship I wanted.

    I always talked about him with my therapist, and always told her he was very fun for now but not the One. She asked me why he couldn’t be the One… and my response was along the lines of us being just too different.

    After a few months, when I saw more and more how much he and I actually had in Common (important, deep things!), I began to wonder if maybe he Could be the One.

    But just as I started to shift my belief about that, he started to withdraw, and eventually found a local gf. At first I felt heartbroken… but as he and I continued connecting as “friends” I began to see that my ORIGINAL GUT FEELING was right — he was NOT the right man for me — I could see this clearly again, like I had seen it at the beginning — particularly bc of the way he was still super-flirty (putting it mildly)with me in spite of having a gf.

    Over time, my “romantic” attraction for him faded and is now at the point where I feel only friendship feelings toward him. He is good for me — very good for me — as a friend. But he would be bad for me as a partner.

    Hehe. The most recent pic he posted on facebook did absolutely nothing for me — I feel no draw or attraction whatsoever. And I am happy for him that he has a girl he’s happy with and can be himself with (he wouldn’t have been able to be himself with me bc I wouldn’t tolerate philandering — virtual or otherwise!)

    So…. I am wondering… and thinking… Would it be possible for you to spend more time around Mr. Charisma as friends– and maybe be facebook friends too — to give yourself an opportunity to collect more information about who he really is and how he would really be for you…?

  70.  #70Lucy on January 17, 2011 at 11:34 am

    … and then you might get some sense of resolution either way.

  71.  #71Lucy on January 17, 2011 at 11:36 am

    Also, “I have this pattern of feeling insecure and unworthy around men I feel really attracted to…” — it would probably feel really good to heal that pattern, wouldn’t it?

    Maybe Mr. Charisma is showing up to help you heal that — and maybe that can happen without actually dating him.

  72.  #72Lucy on January 17, 2011 at 11:39 am

    OR — if you heal that with Inner Bonding-type self-healing, maybe he will no longer be attractive to you. 🙂

    It seems like he is definitely on your radar for some sort of self-discovery or healing. He is there for a purpose.

    Maybe ask or wonder: I wonder why he is here…..

    and then see what happens.

  73.  #73Brenda on January 17, 2011 at 11:41 am


    RE: #7 – LOL! :lol:! Sounds good to me! I got some Amy’s Organics frozen cheese enchiladas on sale! They are THE best enchiladas, and just TOO good to pass up! I also had some delicious “Wake-up Mocha” at a convenience store sweetened with equal, and I thoroughly enjoyed it!

    Each day is a fresh start! I’m about to make a big pitcher of fresh squeezed orange juice mixed with fresh squeezed lemonade, sweetened with honey!

  74.  #74Lucy on January 17, 2011 at 11:48 am

    “Not to mention commonplace advice that women should wait to commence sexual relationships. Is anyone anywhere telling men this?” (SLV)

    Yes! actually they are! It is a part of many streams of Christian teaching, including much Christian relationship and dating advice… and part of the rationale for it is bc of the bonding that can occur for both genders.

  75.  #75Brenda on January 17, 2011 at 11:50 am


    RE: #12 – You said, “Also, I sometimes feel like CDing is like the Rascal Flatts song, Broken Road, in which it says, “God bless the broken road that lead me straight to you.” That is how I feel…this journey of CDing is God blessing the broken road that leads me to my Mr. Right.”

    That’s awesome! That song has very special meaning to me. It’s “our song” between Ryan and me. When we were dating, I bought him 4 CDs, and one of them had that song in it. I didn’t even know the song at the time. He was playing the CD and turned it up really loud when that song came on, and I know he was giving me a message.

    Then a month or so later, it came on the radio while we were driving. He had his seat reclined, and he turned to the side, away from me. When I started softly rubbing his back, I felt him crying. He tried to hide it. He asked me to turn the radio off.

    I felt that all the dating before him was also MY broken road that led me to HIM. I may be wrong, but I’ve decided to keep the door open after he called me last night.

    For the first time in over a year, he was willing to discuss the fake proposal and all that surrounded it. Some of it feels too personal to share, but I felt like it was a major milestone last night. I felt like we were more on a level of agreement, and he was OPEN! I felt so good about my use of feeling messages, and I fully accredit feeling messages to him opening back up after 1.5 years!

    I don’t know what will happen from here, but I feel like my friendship with him is in a really good place. If that’s all it ever is, I’m all right with that. Our 25 minute discussion felt really healthy and positive to me! So I’m just taking it a step at a time from here.

  76.  #76Senior Lady Vibe on January 17, 2011 at 11:52 am

    “…Each day is a fresh start! I’m about to make a big pitcher of fresh squeezed orange juice mixed with fresh squeezed lemonade, sweetened with honey!…”

    I do that too! Half orange juice and half lemonade… I put in Splenda instead but drank out of champagne glasses… They don’t hold much so had three glasses with mini-cubes. So fun to hold the long stemmed glasses… Make-believe Mimosa cocktails. 😆


  77.  #77Senior Lady Vibe on January 17, 2011 at 11:58 am

    @73: Lucy says:

    “Yes! actually they are! It is a part of many streams of Christian teaching, including much Christian relationship and dating advice… and part of the rationale for it is bc of the bonding that can occur for both genders.”

    Right you are! I was thinking manly of dating coaches for men, in particular the PUA. I will check a little more on this. I don’t want to slight the brethren.


  78.  #78Senior Lady Vibe on January 17, 2011 at 12:02 pm


    ” I was thinking manly..” …must be Freudian..

    I meant I was thinking MAINLY… 😀


  79.  #79Brenda on January 17, 2011 at 12:09 pm


    “Manly” was a Fruedian slip. LOL! 😆

  80.  #80Katarina Phang on January 17, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    I’m in Seattle right now. Last week I gave the “non-exclusivity speech” through email with him. These are the points:

    “1. You might not expect this from me but I REFUSE to be exclusive with anyone (yes including you, the great man I’m spending most time with right now) unless he’s willing to give me what I want (the chance to have a baby, NOT marriage necessarily). I told you when you were driving me to the airport that I cared less about marriage than about emotional commitment and marriage is only important when there is a child involved. No, I won’t say I don’t want it but it’s not a must right at this sec.

    Exclusivity without commitment is a kiss of death for most women. It doesn’t help both parties in the relationship. I don’t need to focus all my psychic energy on you and drive you away now, do I? So I could care less about monogamy, exclusivity or whatnot at this point. Without your commitment (that you’re willing to give me what I want), it means NOTHING. At this point in my life, I don’t want to limit my options myself.

    2. I’m not ready to commit to anyone right now (and yes that’s including YOU) so I do understand about your needs to date and heal. I want to be SURE myself before I commit. We’re still early in the path.

    3. I’m not going to put all my (drying) eggs in one basket. I won’t be so stupid as to investing emotionally in one man not knowing where you stand in the long run. I, however, don’t mind getting vulnerable every now and then, because it’s me. I’m very feminine and emotional sometimes. I love it when both of us are being vulnerable, it keeps us close together.

    I appreciate your sentiment and you opening up to me. I’m treating you as Mr. Right Now (instead of Mr. Right, since I have no idea yet) and trying not to get ahead of myself.”

    Then he texted me saying it made him feel closer to me because we shared similar understandings about our relationship.

    Soon enough -I’m thinking ahead of time here- I think I’ll feel that I will only want to keep seeing him if he stops seeing other women, but I don’t want to be exclusive with him unless he commits, though. I know it’s double standard (I told my estranged husband that I absolutely refused to talk/see him if he sees other women-with the understanding that I’m free to date anyone-, and he said he was okay with it).

    I’m wondering if that will fly with SG but I will try anyway. My reasoning can be that since I’m a woman, it’s really in our best interest for me to keep dating (taking the pressure off him) while he’s taking his time to decide if he wants to give me what I want, while at the same time he gets everything he needs from a woman (a diva rock star that rocks his world 🙂 ) other than exclusivity (which he can get if he commits).

  81.  #81Katarina Phang on January 17, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    Last week I gave the “non-exclusivity speech” through email with him…oops, I mean TO him.

  82.  #82Gloria on January 17, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    I have just finished modern day siren and I have been successful at not making first contact with my “friend”. See, we have been friends with benefits for 8 months and that is all either of us can do at this point. We are both dating others, he consistently dates three of us locally… I choose not to be out with him, in the local small community as rumors fly… and other’s expectations can interfer…He has been out with the other two locally and even us attending the same events… all fine with me… I have been on dates with a few gentleman at events he has been at… I began putting these tools into action and he specifically has responding exactly as predicted, he tells me how soft I am and he has been making contact first lately etc. He also has dropped one of the two other women whom he has been seeing for years… but his communication is often email he doesn’t like to use his phone (he is older) and would rather converse face-to-face… he emailed me this morning and said “Hope to see you sometime soon.” I responded with “It would feel wonderful to see you soon…. 🙂 ” Is that okay? Should I have responded at all?

  83.  #83Lisi on January 17, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    Brenda — I feel all excited and happy for you! It sounds like you are getting on the bridge and this man is changing his reaction because of it. Who knows whether he’ll be the one to finish the crossing with you, but the possibilities are open.

    Katarina — You sound SO strong and vulnerable and real! That’s super cool.

    I don’t think it’s a double standard for you to be unwilling to stop dating until he commits. He can stop dating and STILL not commit. You’re just setting the bar where it REALLY works, and not getting side-tracked my Mr. Almost Kinda Never Not Quite. We’ve all done THAT a time or two.

  84.  #84Brenda on January 17, 2011 at 12:29 pm



  85.  #85Simply Shannon on January 17, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    LG, I am quite familiar with the grass is always greener mentality. This boils down to fear for me. Fear that I’m settling. I want a man I feel wonderful with all the time, where I can appreciate other men’s qualities but nothing they have to offer me would compare to the total package I have in my man.

    And really, this other guy isn’t offering anything right now. I know I’d be making excuses in my head “but I’m dating one of his friends”. Blah, blah, blah. If dude really wanted me that much, dude would come and get me. Just sayin’.

    I feel curious how you feel currently with LI. Cuz what I’m hearing is a lot of justification for staying when maybe it doesn’t feel 100% right. Could you tell LI what you’re feeling? I wonder what it would be like to ask him to help you figure it out.

    I may try that with Mr. CD tonight. Tell him I’m just not feeling the level of attraction I want to feel. Things feel friendly between us, and I don’t know why. Any ideas? I feel open to dating him to see if that changes. What do you think?

  86.  #86Katarina Phang on January 17, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Lisi, thanks…I’m trying to do my best and not being sidetracked until I get what I want. I will stick to my gun and stay on my horse. If he wants a low-demand, no nagging, all helpful, thoughtful, sexy, sensual and sexual woman (who is also a great cook) -everything he says he loves about me-, I guess he has to want to pay the price, if not commitment at this point, then one-sided exclusivity.

    Yeah I think I can pul this one off. I’ll give him a few more months so he’ll invest more in me emotionally and I will tell him that I no longer feel comfortable with the idea of him seeing other women. Then I’ll give him some time to process it and get used to the idea. I’ll keep my fingers crossed. 🙂

  87.  #87Femininewoman on January 17, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    Brenda that was great reading what you wrote. Your challenge now seems to be changing what you were in the past and re-present yourself as the best Brenda possible.

  88.  #88Katarina Phang on January 17, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    BTW, I love this “Mr. Almost Kinda Never Not Quite,” Lisi. It cracked me up.

  89.  #89Sammie on January 17, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    Daria, Daria, Daria, Mary or Jacqueline (or other sirens with info):

    Can you give ideas how to best advertise on Craig’s List to meet good guys?

    Also, I think Rori said some things at one point but I can’t remember??


  90.  #90Lizzie on January 17, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    OMG Sirens! I am in love….
    So I have been seeing fishing guy now since the end of November…

    I wrote: I feels so wonderful….I think you are good at helping me stay balanced. What do you think?

    He wrote: I think we are good for each other. You fill me with peace, love and belonging….

    Can you freaking believe it????

    Well, the other day, he asked if we could be exclusive. I really have to laugh, at our age?? OK so I adore him. Such a nice regular guy and he is busy seeing me all over his future. I am truly astonished at how easy this is. He just showed-up. Maybe as Mark Katz and Rori say, when both are ready, the magic just unfolds.

    Another interesting thing – I have found myself slipping into “work” mode with him on a few occasions. I am happy to report, I am noticing a huge shift in myself when that happens and generally I don’t like the feeling – it feels ackward, controlling, even tough! which is such an odd feeling. So now I am working a bit more on how to frame-up some feedback or how I can contribute to him in a way that is far safer for me and doesn’t feel like I might be creating the opportunity for conflict. I guess that is the downside of being a professional woman in business. There is no doubt about it, I can feel the difference of when my heart in informing my head, or I am just in my freaking head! Amazing! All the mud-hauling hard work I did here all summer has really made a huge difference.

  91.  #91Senior Lady Vibe on January 17, 2011 at 2:03 pm


    I’m warning you, healthy eating buddy, do not try “siggi’s” Icelandic style skyr yogurt! I got some for my tea time break and it’s horrid, yucky chalky… bleh.. to think I gave up a cupcake for this! 😥 two bites and I was outta there!

    And it’s spendy too, $3.00 for a tiny cup. I shudda got Yoplait. 😀


  92.  #92Lizzie on January 17, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    healthy eating people – try no fat Greek Yogurt and stir in a drop of honey. Thick, rich, wonderful and very high protein and very low cal. Amazing.

    I know fruit juice is on so many diet lists as good – I raise a caution flag as fruit juice is very hard on the system and can be about the worst thing you can drink – very high fast acting glycemic levels – might as well do the trade and have the cupcake (at least you get a little protein in it) and you will enjoy it far more. Fruit juice plays havoc with blood sugar – actually if you are working at loosing weight, don’t eat fruit at all – the few vitamins and fiber they have can be acquired in real food much easier.

  93.  #93Darling Ella on January 17, 2011 at 2:45 pm


    I have been meaning to share this link with you…”A Course in Weight Loss” book and program by Marianne Williamson…I am a big fan of Marianne’s teachings…Hope you find it interesting…


    Warm hugs,

  94.  #94Senior Lady Vibe on January 17, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    @90: Lizzie says:
    “..healthy eating people – try no fat Greek Yogurt and stir in a drop of honey. Thick, rich, wonderful and very high protein and very low cal. Amazing…”

    Thanks, Lizzie. Great ideas. I’ve been sampling different yogurts and tried a nice Greek yogurt last week; I didn’t add honey but it was very good.

    So true about the sugar in fruit juices: I’m watching my blood sugar and eating low on the glycemic index. I sin sometimes; coudn’t resist the red raspberry jam this morning… 😀


  95.  #95marina on January 17, 2011 at 2:58 pm

    Hmmm, Greek yoghurt, honey and almonds!!!
    I eat Greek yoghurt for breakfast, much much better than bread 🙂

  96.  #96marina on January 17, 2011 at 3:00 pm

    I mean walnuts…LOL
    Time to go to bed I suppose.

    Little me really would like me to stay here on Siren Island and play more with all of you.
    But really I feel exhausted, I am taking care of myself and sending me to bed.

    Oooooooh, that feels good 🙂

    Have fun y’all!

  97.  #97Lucy on January 17, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    Okay, looks like there are no men anywhere who are right for me. Boo hoo. What now? Nothing, I suppose. If they don’t exist, they don’t exist.

  98.  #98RTCathy on January 17, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    I had a cracked tooth today and had to go to the dentist, in the waiting room was a fairly sullen girl with a little pregnacy bump, one of the dental nurses spotted sullen girl and exclaimed a friendly hello and gently put her hand on the girls bump! it was obvious they knew each other and the nurse was really friendly.
    I was on my way out to the dentist and said to her jokingly “I hope you dont pat all your patients bellies like that” – she laughed and I went off to the dentist.
    When I came to pay (more pain)! the nurse was explaining to the receptionist that sullen girl was the new girlfriend of her long term ex, who had since got pregnant with his baby.

    The pain on her face was apparent although she kept up the very friendly exterior. My heart went out to her, I wish I had some cards of this website printed – she would definitely have benefitted!

    I am in the second week of my “break” from BMW man and for the first time since we met, we havent communicated at all for 2 days and although I feel anxious still at times i am coping with the help of RR and a little help from my Siren friends, I am feeling almost afraid of the date we have this wednesday because I suspect that he may say hey I enjoyed being free – lets just be friends. I am working on building my self love and willing to cut the ties if I sense this happening and put him on my horse. i am so grateful for the support of this blog and Rori’s tools and I feel for all the women ie nurse etc who have to get by without it… maybe I will give her the web address anyway!

  99.  #99Femininewoman on January 17, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    RTCathy if he offers friendship you know how to say no thank you, that does not work for me. I want romance and I am committed to my happiness.

  100.  #100Lee on January 17, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    Hi sirens 🙂

    I just wanted to let you all and Rori know how much this blog has helped me over the past 6 wks.

    Ex and I broke up mid Nov after 4 years of on-off relationship – lots of fighting, arguing, tears, etc… the final straw was me wanting a committment (ie view to moving in, marriage, kids) and him backing away totally… he moved out of parents place and in with friends (married couple).

    We lived together briefly for about 2 months in 08… then another fight, we moved out & I went overseas for 2 months. He called me every day and wld not leave me alone. We got back together when I came back. Since 09 I went back to school, & he has been in school ever since we met. I went overseas another couple of times after we broke up, then we got back together when I returned.

    I realise now that I didn’t give myself any time to get over my past relationship. I was married before and together for 8 years. It was only weeks after that we met. He was single for a couple of months after a 4yr relationship.

    This is a tough road! I love him with all my heart… the problems we have had I really believe have been magnified by not having much $, and not being able to live together… I was so SICK of him not making plans for the future… tho I realise now that it was completely unfair when we both don’t have the $…

    He says he is not ready to forget all the bad stuff and try again… I want to… I know in my heart that he is The One. He is younger than me (by a couple years) and has been in school FOREVER (at least 8 years). He feels he has not started his adult life… and I have travelled and been married.

    I am trying really really hard to STOP, BREATHE & LEAN BACK… we have amazing chemistry and awesome sex… we have seen each other 3 or 4 times since Nov and the spark is still there… he says tho he is just not ready to go back to how it was… and he doesn’t know if he will ever be ready to try again… He says he does not want a relationship right now… and doesn’t know if this will change…

    Sirens, please help me! Am I doing the right thing? I am trying to focus on myself and be the confident, secure woman who is looking after herself… but it still doesn’t change how I feel about him… I love him…

    We are in different places – I accept that… he says that he doesn’t want me to wait around, and that I am perfect and he wants me to be happy…

    I still want him in my life. I love him, and his family… this is so hard 🙁

    If I lean back will he come back to me? Am I crazy for thinking that he will?

    All your advice I have read so far is amazing… you are incredibly strong, beautiful women! I hope you can help me too xx

  101.  #101Alicia on January 17, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    How does CD’ing heal fear of intimacy, exactly?

    The first round of CD’ing I did.. I went out with 10 guys all only once.

    It was exhausting and so dissapointing.

    Now, I really am having more fun.

    And going out with guys you’re not as attracted to physically does allow you to recieve a little more. But, cuter guys are showing up and they all seem nice..

    I just dont were the healing intimacy part comes in..? Especially if I go out with them only a few times..

  102.  #102Alicia on January 17, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    Thanks for that web page Darling Ella I checked it out..

  103.  #103Alicia on January 17, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    Katarina I really liked #80 and I do agree with u.. 🙂

  104.  #104Lisi on January 17, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    @89 Sammi —

    I happen to be the Craig’s list GODDESS. And humble about it, too. 🙂

    First — men don’t like a lotta text — so keep it short. My current ad says

    You are:

    Attractive and confident;

    Fit and healthy;

    Educated and employed at something worthwhile;


    Not a smoker, alcoholic or addict.

    You have good values, and you have standards about the women you date.

    I am all of the above, and more.

    Only emails with pics will get replies.

    *If you can’t spell, don’t reply.
    *No casual hook ups.
    * Do not email for sex, requesting sex, describing sex, etc….

    This one pulls pretty well.

    I’ve also run a one-liner that says I’m available and ready to meet people in a low-pressure way, and who knows?

    That one works well, too.

    I ONLY meet in public. I make sure to get full name and info and give it to a friend before I ever go anywhere private with a guy I met on CL. I’ve had no bad experiences, but you gotta stay safe.

    I find Craigslist pulls better for me than all of the other dating sites combined….


  105.  #105Katarina Phang on January 17, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    Thanks, Alicia.

    I think he has started to “freak out” a bit about what the future holds because he knows that unless he steps up to the plate he’ll lose me. I told him it was because he had strong feelings for me, otherwise he wouldn’t care, to which he said, “true.”

    He’s very loving, doting and affectionate, as I always. And he’s been even trying to call me more when we’re apart. All are his own initiatives (I just simply told him how happy I was when he called).

  106.  #106Lee on January 17, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    Post just delivered me ‘commitment blueprint’… better start listening….

    have also ordered modern siren as well so hopefully that will help!

  107.  #107Lisi on January 17, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    Katarina —

    If I were you, I wouldn’t think in terms of giving him a few months and then demanding exclusivity.

    I’d put my genuine effort into meeting and spending time with other people, and enjoy the one I’m crazy about.

    I think they need us to let the pressure build up in them until they boil over and JUST HAVE TO HAVE US.

    I saw some of that with my ex this week end. Then he had to go back to process, and I got a call today from Bachelor #1, whom I enjoy thoroughly.

    My ex is going to feel the vibe that, although I like him, I’m not totally invested in him coming back to me, and that will keep the pressure building for him. That’s a GOOD thing for me to do — good for him and me, both — cuz we can BOTH get our needs met out of this deal.

    My ex has been on text with me all day, and saying he misses me and wants to see me again, etc…. About the time I’m really enjoying myself with Bachelor #1, he’ll probably feel an INCREDIBLY STRONG DESIRE to get back in his little truck and drive here.

    And, when he complains about my dating others, I’ll ask him if he wants to know my ring size.

    Sweetly, of course…..

  108.  #108Sammie on January 17, 2011 at 4:32 pm


    Thanks so much for the CL info! And I really appreciate you actually showing your ads!

    Do you have your picture on there or do you only send it to those with pics who reply?

    Also, did you come up with a new actual craig’s list email or just some other email that did not include your name?

    I am so going to try this!!!

  109.  #109Femininewoman on January 17, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    Re 105 Lisi you are a fo I love it. I definitely will remember that.

  110.  #110Brenda on January 17, 2011 at 4:51 pm


    RE: #90 – Congratulations on your romance!!! 🙂

    I’m soooo happy for you!!

  111.  #111Brenda on January 17, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    Darline Gella,

    RE: #93 – Thanks for the link!

  112.  #112Brenda on January 17, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    Whoops! Darling Ella, I meant to say!

  113.  #113Brenda on January 17, 2011 at 5:00 pm


    RE: #98 – You said, “I wish I had some cards of this website printed – she would definitely have benefitted!”

    What a terrific idea!

  114.  #114Brenda on January 17, 2011 at 5:09 pm


    RE: #106 – When I post on Craigslist, I post photos of romantic things, like a romantic woman in a painting, or a scene full of colorful birds, or a painting of a whole bunch of butterflies.

    I think it’s too dangerous of a place to post your photo. I usually save that for my first email or two, and ask for his.

  115.  #115SummerBaby on January 17, 2011 at 5:14 pm

    I’ve been seeing a guy since early December. Since our first date, he calls daily and texts and instant messages online.

    My profile online talks about things I enjoy and what I enjoy doing. He’s the first one that contacted me from that site. We go out once a week.

    He’s tall, considerate, funny, tall, affectionate, chivalrous, tall, and I feel great when I’m with him. Did I mention he’s tall? 😉 For once I have to look up to a man and can wear heels and not feel bad.

    I had a medical event today and he texted me before I even left the drs office to ask how it went. Then he called. I feel special, valued and important to him.

    What’s the problem you ask? I’m a classic overfunctioner. I want to text him continually. I want to call. I want to see him more often. I have been wrestling with myself to sit back and let him come to me.

    I’m just about to hit instant empty nest as both children are leaving almost at once. While I am happy for both of them, I’m in a state of panic. It’s like my identity was all wrapped up in them and now I don’t know who I am or who I’ll be.

    I worry that with them out of the picture, I will lean forward too much with him. I have been trying to cd, but it’s a lot of work to relax (how’s that for a paradox?).

    I guess in the last couple of days I’ve begun to realize just how much and how often I stuff my feelings down. I feel tightness in my chest and throat just typing this.

    I want to cry about my kids leaving, but I feel like I’m supposed to be strong. I feel myself getting all emotional and it’s uncomfortable.


  116.  #116Nancy on January 17, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    @SLV 22

    Thank you for the reminder. Reading about becoming exclusive before big commitment is on the table was creating a big twist in my stomach. After my recent experience I feel terrified of becoming exclusive for an unknown, undefined amount of time, getting more and more attached and having it go down the tubes again. Big sigh. I feel relieved.
    I can choose to become exclusive, in order to explore a relationship and deepen intimacy and then I can choose to step back from that if I sense him stalling, having a change of heart, moving away from me. I can even specify a set period of time for it. One month, two, a season. Phew! I feel better.
    Funny, I just posted those very words yesterday. I need to put this up on my fridge, to help it really sink in.

  117.  #117Nancy on January 17, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    Dinner tonight with Mr. TakeMeToDinner. 🙂 I want to feel open to him growing on me.

  118.  #118Brenda on January 17, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    Summer Baby,

    RE: #113 – If it helps, write your little heart out on this blog! Then you won’t be texting your new man!

  119.  #119Senior Lady Vibe on January 17, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    103: Lisi says:

    “…I happen to be the Craig’s list GODDESS. And humble about it, too….”

    Don’t be humble, flaunt it! 😉

    I’m intrigued but I really don’t know what to ask…as in I don’t know what I don’t know. So any little thing you want to share would be appreciated even if you think everyone already knows it.

    Thank you so much. I think CL will be a resource for me and I’m so happy to see that you are successful using it.


  120.  #120Senior Lady Vibe on January 17, 2011 at 5:55 pm


    Hi. How are you doing with your CL list of guys? There’s another CL diva, Lisi, here on blog. That’s exciting.


  121.  #121happilyfree on January 17, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    how do you guys deal with dating sites? I just set up my profile on POF today and I had a lot of free time and I just feel kind of silly for having been on for so much time today. I was exploring and browsing, and responding to emails. But it feels weird to be there when the same guys are there emailing me back over and over – I dont like being that available. I dont respond to all of them but it feels weird. thoughts? I am avoiding getting on for the rest of the night cos I feel like doing other things. And I have done a lot today, but it still feels weird.

  122.  #122Jennifer on January 17, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    my heart is broken.
    I don’t know what to do.
    B’s nephew died.
    He was 11.
    He has been sick all his life.
    He died in his sleep.
    I took off of work and went over to his sister’s.
    I stayed all day. I drove them to the funeral. I explained what the coroner had told them.
    I bought coffee and cleaned.
    I explained as best I could to the other nephew who is autistic.
    My ex SIL insisted on putting me in the obituary…I told her she didnt’ have to do that.
    She insists on me coming to the family viewing….I told her that I would be ok to come to the public viewing…….but I don’t wanna argue with her.
    I emailed B. He’s at his parent’s house. I told him my heart is broken and I can’t imagine what he’s going through.
    I told him that I wasn’t sure about calling him cause I didn’t want to overstep my boundaries but that he could call me any time he wanted.

    I feel heart broken.
    I feel a pain in my stomach.
    I threw up.

  123.  #123Jennifer on January 17, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    I drove them to the funeral home.

  124.  #124happilyfree on January 17, 2011 at 6:43 pm

    Oh Jennifer I feel so sad for you. And for the family, this is so heartbreaking. I will pray for you and for everyone involved. **HUG**

  125.  #125Lori on January 17, 2011 at 8:06 pm



    I’m a classic overfunctioner too. I’ve got 2 guy friends, one gay, one straight but happily married to a girlfriend of mine. Whenever I get the urge to lean forward and call of text any of my guys, I text one of them instead. They are both chatty, so it distracts me, keeps me caught up with my guy friends, and I usually end up laughing (the straight friend is really funny) or feeling really good about myself (the gay friend thinks I’m a diva and a rock star and always tells me so) Usually by the time I’m done chatting with them, the urge to text a guy I’m dating has passed! It really works!!!

  126.  #126Brenda on January 17, 2011 at 8:07 pm


    Sorry for what you and they are going through.

  127.  #127Lori on January 17, 2011 at 8:08 pm


    Hugs to you, I feel so sorry…..

  128.  #128SummerBaby on January 17, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    Brenda @116,

    thank you for that. I think I’m going to need to. I wish Rori had a paypal option. I have to figure out how I can get the ebook. I think it would help me a lot. In the meantime I’m devouring posts from the archives and it does help.

    I finally have a man who respects me and treats me well. I’ve spent the last year noticing traits I admire in every man I met or observed. If I saw a happy couple, I would make mental note of how he treated her – sort of collecting data for what I want and acknowledging that if it exists for others, it could exist for me.

    So here it seems I have attracted a man with all the things I noticed that I liked, from the endearing terms he uses, to the gentle hand at the small of my back when we walk together, to the attentiveness and he’s always so upbeat and positive and fact that he’s pursued me. I’m just amazed that he’s real. So if I can sit back and relax (been about 80% successful at not texting first), I feel sure things will continue to go well. I feel like we are growing closer.

    I feel the clingy neediness growing in me. Guess I need to accept that part of me, too.


  129.  #129SummerBaby on January 17, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    Lori @ 123,

    thank you. I have been trying that actually, so thank you for saying it. I have another guy that I was seeing, but moved him into the friend category. He would so step up, but we are so wrong for each other that I just can’t take the fundamental differences. I’m so confused by doing the cd thing… I get emotionally invested in all of them.


    I guess I just need to distract myself til the urge passes. Trouble is the urges are so frequent!

  130.  #130SummerBaby on January 17, 2011 at 8:31 pm


    I wish I had words that would actually comfort you.
    I feel your pain.


  131.  #131Nancy on January 17, 2011 at 8:35 pm

    @Leo 41

    I remember something Christian wrote, that said it’s great to say, hey, I really loved that the other night. (And to Rorify it, you could add more FMs.) I felt so desirable and that made me really, really happy. I can’t wait to do that again!

    But CC and Rori said to leave out anything that smacked of “how come it’s been so long?” or “What took you so long.”

    I say yes. Let him know he’s appreciated for it, that’s he’s an awesome lover and that you felt fantastic!

  132.  #132Brenda on January 17, 2011 at 8:37 pm


    I take it you don’t have a credit card? Did you know these days you can get one at WalMart and just deposit money in it to use?

  133.  #133Nancy on January 17, 2011 at 8:41 pm

    @SLV 118

    I was just going to say, SLV, that I have actually been contacted by some sweet, nice sounding guys on CL. I’m having a hard time keeping up with the e-mails, but can’t really complain about that problem, lol. One man asked for my number after 1 email and photo exchange, called me last night and set up a date for Saturday. He’s going to drive 2 hours to meet me. Very nice sounding guy. And cute! He’s an imaging tech at a hospital in Seattle.
    2 or 3 others are more into an e-mail fest, which I only let go on for so long. A few of them were 30 or younger… I’m not going there. And there are some that I can’t decide whether to write back to or not. Lots of them, though. I’d say 50 responses? All sounding like regular men. Most send a photo and their likes and dislikes. It’s pretty fun!
    Thanks for asking. 🙂


  134.  #134Nancy on January 17, 2011 at 8:44 pm


    Aww, I am so sorry for the pain you’re feeling right now. I’ll be thinking of you, and them. I feel so sad.

    Big hugs

  135.  #135Andi on January 17, 2011 at 8:57 pm

    Haha I think the article is great…Evan Katz should be proud of himself and not whining…or at least the women he is consulting should be proud of themselves! After paying his consulting fees and after 8 weeks these women have now come into their own and don’t feel the need to jump at the first guy who will go out on three dates with them! You go ladies! So what’s the problem Evan? lol

  136.  #136Nancy on January 17, 2011 at 9:00 pm

    @Summerbaby 126

    It sounds like you’re feeling doubly vulnerable right now. New man and babies fledging. It’s so easy to lose yourself now, when what you really need is to find yourself and have a strong relationship with You. As usual, lol, I have suggestions. I hope it’s not over advisement! Here goes.
    I just read Evan Marc Katz’s “Why He Disappeared”, which is what you’re afraid will happen. I think he has a paypal option… I think. You might want to read it. It will help you curb your outward neediness.
    For your inward neediness, a combination of boosting your inner life and the way you treat yourself and asking for support from others might help you feel stronger. I wonder… he was so supportive about the doctor’s visit, could you ask him for some support around your kids leaving, by using feeling messages? “I felt so supported by you. You were wonderful. I felt stronger for it. Can I share a little about how I feel about my kids leaving home?” It sounds like he might be very happy to listen and support you. And you would have him to share your burden with.
    As you struggle to find your balance, remember what Tinque reminded us of earlier today, “You can’t say the wrong thing to the right man.” So, while you can work to strengthen yourself, you can also not worry about walking on eggshells in this new connection.

  137.  #137Nancy on January 17, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    @Andi 133

    That is SO funny! Thanks for the laugh. And, good point!

    Actually, with my recent experience, I’ll prolly run for the hills when a man wants to be my BF! Finace, okay. BF… never again!!!

  138.  #138Andi on January 17, 2011 at 9:08 pm

    Sirens…I am realizing more and more here everyday…I would appreciate any input or insight from you as I learn new things and try to figure it all out…

    I think, no I am pretty sure, that my mr. 2.75 years (long distance) dropped off the face of the earth because he is depressed…

    He helped me through some very difficult times and helped me process some of my anger and rage that needed healing…but he also needed healing for some major things in his life, and I was not able to make him feel safe to share with me so he stuffed down, then I started stuffing, then he completely shut down…

    He is a thousand miles away. I feel better and I am learning more while I am not in contact with him, but I feel bad…I want to be there for him in some way like he was for me…but I can’t. And, I also worry about him. I have a fear of abandonment myself (that I am trying to heal) and I don’t want to feel like I am abandoning him…

    So I just stay the course and not contact him? 🙁 I want us both to be healthy…

    I know I can’t/don’t need to fix him…??

    Any thoughts would be appreciated…

  139.  #139Andi on January 17, 2011 at 9:11 pm

    @ Nancy 135

    “BF… never again!!!”


    I hope I can do that too! I have only ever been someone’s long-term girlfriend or wife!

  140.  #140Nancy on January 17, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    @Amy 27

    I still sit and think about which FM to use and whether it still sound human or not.

    For that one, how about “I feel SO good hearing from you right now. It completely made my day!”

    Then you get to do both!

  141.  #141Nancy on January 17, 2011 at 9:17 pm


    How did he leave things? What did he say?

  142.  #142Andi on January 17, 2011 at 9:20 pm

    Also, Nancy, please keep me posted on your Mr. want-to-sink-your-teeth into! Mine (from the online dating site) has still not contacted me yet and had been pretty hot and heavy…so we will see. It may be for the best! He reminded me of the guy I just lost…

    Plus his profile said he couldn’t stand being in a relationship with a woman who flirts… :0 red flag?…

  143.  #143Nancy on January 17, 2011 at 9:20 pm

    So, dinner with Mr. TakeMeToDinner tonight. I ended up having a very honest conversation with him about where we each are in our dating relationship. Problem is, at one point when I finished talking, my body was clenched and I was leaning so far forward that my elbows were in the middle of the table between us. LOL I feel happy that I can laugh about it. Practice, practice, practice.

  144.  #144Nancy on January 17, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    I have tried to post the same post twice and it doesn’t post. I don’t know what’s going on. No foul langauge. Hmmmmn. I feel perplexed.

  145.  #145Nancy on January 17, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    Andi, you mean Guywhowassoexcitedaboutmeyesterday, lol? Well, last time he called was mid day yesterday. No message. I was outside and didn’t hear the phone. I really think it’s best. I need to just let that one pass on by. I realized today that the only thing that would feel good is if he called and said “I screwed up, I said I’d call and didn’t and it will never, ever happen again.” Then I’d let it slide this one time. But I don’t think he’s going to do that. I think he thinks it’s fine he didn’t call after saying he would.

    Your MrICanSinkMyTeethIntoYou (LOVE making up these names)… did he just stop contacting you after coming on hot and heavy? I’m not sure that’s a read flag… on OkCupid, they have all these questions everyone answers and that kind of thing is disliked by lots of men and women both. They just want to know you’ll be faithful. That’s my take on it.

  146.  #146Andi on January 17, 2011 at 9:33 pm

    @ Nancy 139

    The second week of Dec. we were supposed to talk about when he would come see me next…he had been avoiding it – we wanted to see each other over his Christmas break…

    So instead of having the talk about when he would come he said on the phone, which I was expecting to have, out of the blue he said: “Will you be willing to let me go…I don’t want to be in a relationship anymore…It is not fair to you…you could be engaged by now…I have been thinking for a while I need to spend some time focusing on me and my kids…I feel like I am having a nervous breakdown” Which was a complete shock…and I said…you mean we are done?…I see this a difficult time for us but not that it’s over…?” He said he didn’t want to shut the door “but”… he needed time

    So I told him to contact me when he was ready…

    Well, he called me and texted me THAT night, he couldn’t stay away, but could’t tell me exactly what we were – friends, or what…that he was sorry he knew I was confused…

    He kept texting me casually til the day after Christmas, and the last text I sent him was a response to his…he asked about my son and if my ex had brought him back to see me Christmas night. I texted him and said yes, and that my ex got engaged over Christmas. And that was it… he didn’t call me that night, no texts the next day – it wasn’t like him at all. And my gut told me NOT to contact him, and since then I haven’t…and it’s killed me but it has been good, I am getting a lot of clarity. It is not like him, he had texted and called me everyday before that for 2.75 years. So I knew something was really wrong…

    Hope this makes sense…

  147.  #147Andi on January 17, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    @ Nancy 142

    did he just stop contacting you after coming on hot and heavy?


    Yes, by that I mean he drastically slowed his pace on emails…but he is also very busy. Ha! there is me overanalyzing!

    You seem to be handling guywhowassoexcitedaboutmeyesterday well. But I know it is disappointing when they get all up in your grill and then cool of, or don’t do what they say! I think that could be my mr. sinkteethinto’s middle name, too!

    Are you on just on dating site?

  148.  #148Nancy on January 17, 2011 at 9:50 pm



    Well, it was a 48 hour excitement, so no biggie. I feel like I’m floating on an inner tube in a stream of men and most of them just bounce off and float on by. LOL
    A couple of days later, I’ve forgotten all about them. 🙂

    No, I’m on 3 sites. Match, OkCupid and POF. I just hid my profile on POF. Mr. Carrot (my recent 2.5 yr guy) is now on there and I decided to take a break from that. Ouch. That’s where we met. Now we’re both back in the big sea, with the pics we took of each other on our vacations together. I feel so sad.

    If they seem “busy” I let them go. My favorite thing about The List is that is teaches you signs of strong interest. Being busy isn’t one of them. Ha!

  149.  #149Dorothea on January 17, 2011 at 9:54 pm

    ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i feel doomed to be alone.

    and i miss LI.

    stupid LI.

    who does that? who bumrushes a girl on facebook when she is looking over her shoulder at work for her boss to tell her you don’t want her?

    i guess someone who is completely incapable of communicating.

    i do hope he learns to communicate one day.

    i don’t want to miss him. he really jerked me around.

    blah. i am just going to imagine that he is gay from now on. he dumped me because he likes penises.

    i have a new guy i have been seeing but we’ve seen each other nearly every day for over a week. he is great, but it’s only been about a week and already we are slipping into super comfortable. i don’t want to be your pretend wife dude! win my ass over!

    i felt so weird and awkward today. i couldn’t handle it. i checked out emotionally.

    it feels good to get it all out here, but at the same time i worry that posting here has somehow led to my romantic demise as of late.


    my head hurts:(

    also i am having a tremendous financial problem and i am so scared i will end up homeless.

  150.  #150Andi on January 17, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    Hi nancy, what is POF?

    “Mr. Carrot (my recent 2.5 yr guy) is now on there and I decided to take a break from that. Ouch. That’s where we met. Now we’re both back in the big sea, with the pics we took of each other on our vacations together. I feel so sad.”
    …oh my goodness! I don’t know how you could endure it! oh my heart hurts for you…I am glad you are protection yourself by leaving that site for a while.

    Mr. Carrot…hmmm. I don’t know that back story on that name but it does sound interesting!! i love your names!

    oh POF is plenty of fish right!

  151.  #151Jacqueline on January 17, 2011 at 10:01 pm

    Hi, Andie and everyone….just checking in and can’t stay long.

    Sammie – I put my pix; I dated off of CL for about 2.5 years – way more responses and easier than match.com or eharmony. I did cheap McDonald’s coffees or lunch dates by my job – ha! and the waitresses got used to it and would tell me what they thought. The very FIRST guy shows up and starts telling me how he has dvd’s of his wife with another woman, and she left him for her…from a PI…and I’m like, ummm, shouldn’t you be telling HER this crap??? O. M. GAWD…

    but I intuitively knew what Rori says – it’s free insight/therapy for both parties so I perservered; everything from a 21 year old (whom I did not have sex with!) to 60 something who sent a body building 30 years ago pix and acted like it was taken last week.

    I weeded quickly – but I wasn’t looking for marriage, actually I was REELING from a 10 year story a lot like Andi’s….

    And I love the LIST book Nancy mentions, btw….

    So – I don’t really write guys without pix, so I did the same – and I’m “plump” so no point in wasting time – I put a face pix but would send a full body as soon as they emailed….and even then one guy saw me enter the Chili’s and LEFT (I had seen him in his Mercedes old, grey…lol)….so I learned to NOT BUY lunch until they were sitting there – he told me my pix showed me too skinny or something. That was the worst. A lot of the young guys were great tho…

    And I even like corresponded with guys who wanted to be cu***hol***…kinky weird stuff – didn’t do any of it, but it was a learning curve and an acceptance challenge for me.

    In the end it boiled down to they had to have a job, home and vehicle…

    So, my ads would say something like:

    Hi, I’m a happy adventurous girl looking for someone to make new memories with. Maybe have a few new adventures with, too! I’m fully funtioning and adult – so you be too. You must have a home, car and job! and be over 35 or please don’t respond.

    then I’d do something seasonal – like Let’s see if fireworks happen around the 4th….or Let’s watch leaves turn colors…

    two or three emails – I had his full name and had looked him up on the Harris County Tax Appraisal data, by 4th I’d set up the coffee, dinner at local bistro, or lunch….and then….I dated maybe 10 guys or a dozen a couple of times – out of probably I dunno 100 lunches, etcs? But the fun was also in the journey here….they were interesting to me. Men are interesting to me – and you all know, people’s stories are interesting to me!!

    Oooooh, and every single one BUT mercedes guy said I was so much better looking in person – “HOT” actually – which is actually kind of code for wow, I’d do you…har….

    So there you have it – some guys want to lick your feet, some want you to pee on ’em, some want to tell you their horrible sad stories, some show up with bags of “sex” toys in their cars…oooh? and the one’s who go on and on about loving oral? ahem,,,,they can’t “do” it…

    Yeah, I should write a book! but I do have a semi (inactive right now) blog – Liveyourdreamblog.com – and anyone who wants can email me at Jacqueline@liveyourdreamblog.com.

    I helped a couple of ladies do a profile ad and they got great results – the main thing is to know what you want, and to let them know you won’t d*ck around with ’em if they’re just lonely, or players, etc.

    Anway – happy day, all….

    more hugs to you Andi….

    and see you all again soon!


  152.  #152Andi on January 17, 2011 at 10:02 pm

    @ dorothea

    I don’t know your story but my heart goes out to you…I can’t imagine how you feel! I am so sorry! for this i have mixed feelings about facebook..

    also, I understand your fear about your financial strain and about being homeless…i was there a few years ago and I was petrified – the idea that i was so close to becoming destitute. i was honestly terrified. …but I was able to find some I could trust to talk to about my situation when I was at my lowest point…and it helped me. I hope you have someone you can talk to…hugs to you…

  153.  #153Dorothea on January 17, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    AND YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE???? the only time i ever knew LI was unhappy or having a hard day was because he’d post something bleak on his facebook. not tell ME. wtf? WHO DOES THAT?

    drove me crazy! no wonder i acted so dang crazy! holy crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


    what a concept. new guy does communicate…quite well. i feel terrible for shutting down today.

  154.  #154Nancy on January 17, 2011 at 10:06 pm


    Wow, that’s a different, yet strangely similar scenario than mine. What hits me is that he said “you could be engaged by now”… at least he recognizes that he’s keeping your life on hold with his indecision. That’s more responsibility than my guy ever demonstrated. And then he just kind of faded away, huh? Hmmmn. It’s hard to say what would be the best thing to do. I always err on the side of not contacting, especially with my guy, because he tends to run for the hills if he feels pressured.
    I’m tempted to say you could call and let him know you’re around if he needs an ear… just offer friendship and caring. I think you should ask the other Sirens, too. I guess the real problem is that we’re making these decisions based on wanting the relationship to continue – the way it was or better than the way it was and we hold onto that. Contacting him might push him further away. But, if you’re willing to risk that and want to reach out from the humanitarian part of yourself to help him, or just offer that, without expectation…
    I think as long as that’s all it is, if you feel like it, do. I wouldn’t offer the relationship though. If you brought him back, you’d spend your time with him wondering if it was real, since he ended it and you re-initiated it. I hope that makes sense.
    Another way to look at it is that he said “I need time.” He’s taking that time. Maybe you should let him have it. He said “you could be engaged by now.” He may not want the responsibility of you not being engaged yet because you’re with him and he doesn’t want to be engaged. Hard stuff. And, if you really want to be married and have the relationship of your dreams… do you want to be re-initiating with him?

    I know how hard it feels to go cold turkey. My guy also called me daily. Multiple times every day for 2.5 years. But that was as far as he went. He never progressed to wanting to SEE me, BE with me everyday. That is very significant. The relationship was not progressing beyond the phone calls and weekends together and a yearly vacation. It stopped there because he stopped it there.

    Where did yours stop?

  155.  #155Andi on January 17, 2011 at 10:08 pm

    Thank you Jacqueline…

    haha omg this made me laugh…

    “some show up with bags of “sex” toys in their cars…oooh? and the one’s who go on and on about loving oral? ahem,,,,they can’t “do” it…”

    my first date last week kept looking at my boobs, all NIGHT. Like junior high, for real! i was like omg they are babies (my boobs) they are not great (thinking to myself) but he was panting! haha

  156.  #156Jacqueline on January 17, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    Oh, and one more thing – I used just regular after or at work pix…nothing like a glamour shot! That’s probably why they were always happy – it’s just not worth it, IMO to have to play into I can look like a model if I want to. If I want to, I will – but this is whom you’ll be dating “everyday…..” and I would often tell them – even at the restaurant I have to call my friend and give her your full name to be safe – and do it!!! Not one guy ever made a big deal about this….if they don’t understand internet safety dating rules, they shouldn’t be doing it. Well, except the one who told me his name and I asked him how the woman on his house deed felt about his dating….heeee…..point is be smart about it – if they’re for real, they should respect you more for that!

    My blog has my non aging self!!! haha….

    SLV, I totally take it BACK – I saw a little write up on Denise Austin’s am exercises and WOW OH WOW – SHE is 53!!!! Now, that’s amazing! Made me think I do indeed look my age – smiles….

  157.  #157Jacqueline on January 17, 2011 at 10:20 pm

    Andi – good for you and the “girls!!” That’s actually a great point, well unless you wanted him to talk to you. haha!!! but men find stuff sexy all the time…

    kind of the feminine vibe thing and it’s so powerful and can be so easy if we let it.

    Or so hard….I went to the hairdresser and she says, oooh, you still look so young – huh? she’d never met me so the “still” was somewhat objectionable!…and your skin no makeup and so beautiful…your hair is so beautiful..and oh, you don’t have children do you?? which I don’t lol….

    but instead of like basking in it, I was going to: why’s she doing this? tip? likes to figure people out? and why am I so “special”???….

    and you know even if I like basked in it, rolled around with it and loved every second of it – there’s still that guy in the mercedes….

    we can’t be all things to all people, huh? And lately I’m actually trying harder to not be so perfect –

    my friend totally thinks my life is infinitely easier cuz I’m pretty….

    but the inverse of that? If people love you cuz you’re pretty – you’d dang well better stay that way – so she’s chillin on sat. and I’m bleaching my hair, painting my toes, etc – not for fun but for maintenance.

    Another convo for next time, huh?


    Sweet dreams all….

  158.  #158Andi on January 17, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    @ nancy


    “Where did yours stop?”


    I think we knew we were doomed in the beginning …but he had such strong forever feelings and we were both willing to take the risk…then I gave in and started believing what he said, that we were soul mates…then he was laid off and had to make a career change…which meant he decided to go back to school…which meant he had no more money…which meant he got no divorce (they were separated when we met) which eventually meant he had to rely on her to pay the mortgage (he stayed in the family home with the kids) when he decided to go to school full time. (I know this shattered his ego…) When he worked full-time, he had more freedom…it just got bad…i feel silly even saying all of this…I think he has known for a year that it wouldn’t work with us, in spite of all we both said and believed about us – …I was in denial…he also developed a chronic illness that he has dealt with valiantly and I know he is exhausted…

    I truly believe if it weren’t for our kids, one of us would have packed up and moved to the other a long time ago. But we love each other AND want to be with our kids…wow this sounds messed up…thanks for understanding and listening…

    so were you in a long-distance relationship?

    I know I should make myself go to bed right now, but the nights are too hard when the lights are off…

    on a much lighter side, I love your floating inner tube down the river of men image!! love it!

  159.  #159Nancy on January 17, 2011 at 10:25 pm

    @Andi 147

    SLV named him Mr. Carrot, when I said calling him GuyWhoIWantedSoBadlyIFinallyHadToLearnHowToGetWhatIWant, which was just way too long. LOL

    How do I endure that? I know… I don’t know how I endure it, either. Rori helped me. After I told him I was going to start dating again, while he was thinking we were incompatible or didn’t get along well enough (this is what he told me, twice) because, if he’s thinking that and not wanting to move forward, I needed to open myself to meeting new men, because I really do want to be married, I remembered that Rori said “If he then starts seeing other women, tell him it’s over. If you’re not the one, then it’s over.” I get that. I started CDing only because he wasn’t moving the relationship forward. I told him that I wasn’t breaking up with him, that I wanted to be married, that he could call me and that I’d see him if he wanted. I said I’d be sexually exclusive with him and that if that ever changed, I would let him know, but he couldn’t keep me all to himself while he was taking his time. That’s how I left things with him.
    I did a tele class with Rori several months before this and she said my only choice was to start going out on some dates on nights I wasn’t with him. I had tried the ultimatum route and was about to go insane. Nothing was working. Not leaning back, not refraining from talking to him about it, not doing the turn around, nothing. So I got brave and did it.
    Anyhoo, I was on POF for 3 weeks before he got on it. When I came across his ad, it was in progress and I knew he was just constructing it. I felt like I’d been kicked in the stomach and like I would throw up. I wasn’t contacting him at all and hadn’t heard anything from him. So, the way I told him it was over was to change my relationship status on Facebook to single. That changed his to being “in a relationship” instead of “in a relationship with Nancy”. Juvenile, huh? But it was all I had. I wasn’t going to call him and I wanted to set my boundary. You date, I’m gone. I can’t handle you seeing other women. So, I guess that’s how I coped with it. And now it’s over. I’m in the phase of my grief now where I wake up feeling angry almost every morning.

  160.  #160Andi on January 17, 2011 at 10:32 pm

    jacqueline….bask in it gurrrl! really, we should when we get compliments..why is it so hard…but i did bask tonight when 2 people gave me compliments…we need to bask!

  161.  #161Andi on January 17, 2011 at 10:41 pm

    @ 154

    “so she’s chillin on sat. and I’m bleaching my hair, painting my toes, etc – not for fun but for maintenance.”

    and about maintenance…(sorry, triggered…)

    …have you ever had a man who loved you, adored every inch inside and out of you…who adored a place on you that you didn’t like so much, until he loved and adored it

    …he loved my toes…and painted them…by candle light, and kissed them…i see him…there is nothing like being cherished that way…

  162.  #162Andi on January 17, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    @ 156: Nancy

    thank you for sharing your story…oh how I know that kicked in the guts feeling…and the grief, and anger…I am glad you left POF. I am so sorry for your pain…

  163.  #163Nancy on January 17, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    @Jacqueline 148

    OMG thanks for the laughs! I know… the stories we can tell. I have so many, having online dated off and on for 6 years now. I do plan to write a book.

    I agree with Andi, howling at the sex toys in the car thing!

  164.  #164Andi on January 17, 2011 at 10:48 pm

    you were really loving yourself by not tolerating the wishy-washiness…but wow would that be hard

  165.  #165Andi on January 17, 2011 at 10:52 pm

    oh my nancy, you really really should write a book! someone would publish it for sure! sex toys in the car! that could be the title (or subtitle!) lol

  166.  #166Nancy on January 17, 2011 at 10:56 pm

    @Andi 155 &159

    Thanks. You know, I’m not in a ton of pain. I worked hard at getting to the point of being able to let it go. I had a plan and followed it — lol so like me. And it got me there. I guess finding him on POF was the last painful thing that happened and that was over 2 months ago. I miss him, but not a lot. No pining. I do feel angry when I wake up and that lasts about 10 minutes. I want to yell, “You ungrateful idiot!” at him. But, he’s just who he is, going through his life, just like I am. The fact that he doesn’t want to marry me doesn’t make him a bad guy, just the wrong guy for me.

    Oh, no it wasn’t long distance. We live about 40 minutes from each other.

    Your story doesn’t sound messed up. A difficult situation for love to sustain in, maybe, but not screwed up. At least not any more than my facebook story!

  167.  #167Nancy on January 17, 2011 at 10:57 pm

    LOL, that would be a really good, funny title!

  168.  #168Andi on January 17, 2011 at 11:01 pm

    @ nancy…

    Oh, ok, I can see the time line better now for what you were saying.

    Going to get chocolate now! Maybe try to sleep! Thanks Nancy….I really do need to check out that book ‘the list’…sweet dreams!

  169.  #169Nancy on January 17, 2011 at 11:04 pm

    Sweet dreams!

  170.  #170Nancy on January 17, 2011 at 11:32 pm

    Someone asked yesterday what The Alarm is when referring to the excerpt from “The List” I posted. Here’s what the book has to say:

    From “The List..” by Mary Corbett and Sheila Corbett Kihne, p. 17

    “The Alarm sounds only when a million different aspects of a woman are perfectly in synch with a man. He may have approached you. He may have asked you out. He may have taken you on the best date(s) of your life. he may think you are really attractive and like your personality. He may even be your boyfriend. None of these things mean that you have sounded The Alarm. Checking off every item on The List is the only true measure.
    Understanding how The Alarm works is the key to The List. If you don’t understand The Alarm, you will waste time hoping that a marriage proposal is imminent when it isn’t even a possibility. You will think there is something wrong with you. Or you will convince yourself that he will eventually come around. You will make excuses and try to fix something that can’t be fixed.
    When you meet a man and sound his Alarm, everything will fall into place quickly. You won’t have to worry, wait or wonder. The List quantifies what a happily married woman means when she says, “You just know” when asked about meeting her husband. The List breaks an abstract idea down into measurable actions.”

    And, on p. 16-17, The List

    “1. He makes the first move
    2. He calls you within twenty-four to forty-eight hours to set up a first date.
    3. He makes the first date easy and fun.
    4. He calls you within twenty-four hours to set up subsequent dates – they are easy, fun and one-on-one.
    5. He wants to talk to you every day and wants to spend all his free time with you.
    6. He demonstrates unconditional loyalty.
    7. He talks about marrying you in concrete terms and proposes–or lets you know his intentions.

    Believe it or not, all of these actions will occur within thirty days. He may have been a pig the week before–he may be happy bachelor not even thinking of marriage–but when this man meets the right woman, he becomes a List Man. All of a sudden the only thing that matters is getting close to the woman of his dreams. It becomes like breathing to him.
    Sid, a happily married man who proposed to his wife within a month, shared this story:

    ‘Years before I met Tricia, a man I respect–and a fifty-year veteran of marriage–told me that a man knows within two to three dates if he’s going to marry a woman. He was right.'”

    Sweet dreams, everybody.

  171.  #171Leo on January 17, 2011 at 11:43 pm

    Hey Nancy,

    thanks for your advice.

    I thought, too, that writing/talking about great things would be okay. I mean, telling him how great I felt.

    I just wasnt sure… (thats me overanalyzing and what he might get out of this email) ….for if I tell him how great this night felt he might feel that I wanna make him do something (do this again).

    He had some difficult past regarding this. I mean, an ex of his always tried to manipulate him. So often when I tell him things whether good or bad he kinda gets this impression that I am telling him this for some reason.
    I always reassure that I dont feel the need to manipulate him and that I just felt like telling him this and that I want to be honest.

    So I’ll send him an email tonight at work, I guess.
    We’ll see.

    I feel great right now.


  172.  #172cathy pearson on January 18, 2011 at 1:10 am

    Hi Rori,
    I just bought your ebook called, Have the Relationship you Want, but I can’t get back into the book. I go to the site, http://www.havetherelationshipyouwant.com and I don’t get anything. I do have my password and ID etc. to get another look at the book, but I can’t find the site. Can you help?

  173.  #173Wonder Woman on January 18, 2011 at 3:19 am

    Good Morning Sirens

    I just wanted to share a funny little heart warming story that happened to me last night:

    So yesterday my son had an activity after school but we were early and I was sat in a car park with him waiting for the doors to open. So while we are waiting I am trying to read a book and my son is messing around and not sitting still even though I have asked him several times and it is starting to annoy me so I give him “the look”.

    So he suddenly looks at me and says “what are you doing”….I continue to look at him….again he says “mum, what is that with your face??”….so I say “this is my annoyed look, it means I am trying to read and I have asked you not to mess around but you are”….so he says “so this (replicates my look) means you are annoyed”….this makes me giggle but I try to stay serious and say “yes”…..so he says again “this look (replicates the look again) means stop what you are doing??”…..again I say yes so he goes to repeat it again so I interrupt with “I am feeling very unheard right now, I feel like I am being ignored and I don’t want to feel ignored and unheard, it makes me feel annoyed and I don’t like feeling annoyed…” !!!! Suddenly my son throws his arms up in the air with joy and shouts “YES…..SHE GOT IT….YEAHHHHHH…..MUM THAT’S IT..!!! Just say the words….you don’t have to look at me like this (he replicates the look) it doesn’t mean anything but when you say those words it makes sense”……then he adds “shall I call you sweet cheeks??” then sits down so I can read my book……I couldn’t stop laughing for ages.

    The power of feeling messages….!! 🙂

  174.  #174SummerBaby on January 18, 2011 at 4:05 am

    @ Brenda 130 – I do have one, but I can’t use it at present. I had forgotten about prepay ones. I may do that for the ebook.

    @ Nancy 134 – Great advice. He’s been great on other occasions with important stuff. I reached out and asked to talk to him when my brother attempted suicide before Christmas because I just had to talk to someone. He was wonderful, he listened. I apologized for dumping but I didn’t want to tell people who knew him well because I didn’t want to wallow in feeling bad, I was trying to feel better. He told me not to worry about it, that he has big shoulders. So yeah, I leaned forward there, by contacting him first.

    But overall, he’s supportive, and interested in what’s going on with me. I did something really dumb the other day, and then obsessed that it might have been a dealbreaker for him. When we next spoke I told him I felt worried that he wouldn’t want to talk to me again after that. He just laughed and said, of course I want to talk to you. I thanked him and said that felt way better than what I made up in my head.

    So yes, feeling very vulnerable and working on treating myself with love and respect. It gets easier with practice, right?


  175.  #175Senior Lady Vibe on January 18, 2011 at 4:43 am

    @156: Nancy says:

    “… When I came across his ad, it was in progress and I knew he was just constructing it…”

    How does that work? Can I start the profile one day and finish it another? Is there an “in construction” symbol or mechanism to keep profile hidden until it’s finished and like I want it to be?

    I’d never used online dating sites so I signed up with OKCupid just to scout and explore, not even a real profile, only a skeleton and not finished. Everyone could see it and I started getting e-mails, I’m guessing from guys that just send out blanket invites. It kind of spooked me and scared me off OkCupid.

    I didn’t want that to happen with POF so I didn’t sign up there. Also when I looked at POF and did a little quickie search, there was some kind of LTR/Marriage relationship certification/medallion or whatever. I figured I wouldn’t be getting that sort of seal of approval if I took the “test.” What’s up with that? Is it still in effect?

    “… I’m in the phase of my grief now where I wake up feeling angry almost every morning…”

    You seem to be doing great!!! This morning I woke up a little weepy and thinking the whole dating thing was going to be so over my head. I logged onto blog and was perked up right away when I
    saw your posts and Jacqueline’s wonderful CL stories. Both of you are courageous!

    “Carry on… make it work…” ~ Tim Gunn


  176.  #176Senior Lady Vibe on January 18, 2011 at 4:46 am

    @162: Andi says:

    “…oh my nancy, you really really should write a book! someone would publish it for sure! sex toys in the car! that could be the title (or subtitle!) lol…”

    I think that was Jacqueline’s “sex toys in the car” episode. If she and Nancy put their heads together what a book they could write!


  177.  #177Senior Lady Vibe on January 18, 2011 at 4:48 am

    @163: Nancy says:

    “…I want to yell, “You ungrateful idiot!” at him…”

    My yell is “I will kick your a&&.” Not a mean hurtful threat but rather a “living well is the best revenge” kind of way. I want a special relationship and I intend to “have the relationship I want.”


  178.  #178Senior Lady Vibe on January 18, 2011 at 4:53 am


    Thank you for being so generous with your CL experience. It is very helpful and and those posts are a joy to read.

    Another question: Previously you mentioned you asked guys for their real names when you e-mailed and then later checked ID but I don’t remember if you said …at what point do you give guys your real name instead of username?


  179.  #179Senior Lady Vibe on January 18, 2011 at 4:57 am

    @153: Jacqueline says:

    “Now, that’s amazing! Made me think I do indeed look my age – smiles…”

    Of course you look your age…who else’s age could you look? 😀


  180.  #180Amy on January 18, 2011 at 5:23 am

    Ok, so I must be really into my subconscious with feeling messages because last night in my dream I was using them….and they got amazing results…even in a dream. How great/funny is that?!

    Hope you ladies have a great day! xoxo

  181.  #181archerie on January 18, 2011 at 6:20 am

    Oh Dear !!!

    New site I signed up..
    Got this …

    “Thanks for your reply, I think i like you,I couldn’t wait but to read back from you.I can’t stop wondering what you would look like when you were in your early 20s or 30s…”

    I am 51 !!! (and certainly dont look 20 something)
    I tried feeling messages as i was otherwise speechless:)

    REPLY ” Now I feel bad that i am in my 50’s and not 20-30 !
    It would feel better for me if the man was happy with me just as I am now .
    I am not sure I would feel good with someone who couldnt stop wondering how i used to look 30 years ago.
    Oh Dear!

  182.  #182marina on January 18, 2011 at 6:49 am

    Don’t walk in front of me, I may not follow
    Don’t walk behind me, I may not lead
    Walk beside me and be my friend

    – Albert Camus

  183.  #183Daria on January 18, 2011 at 6:53 am

    Justwoke up… Gona walk an hour to comm service. Yay slow walk

  184.  #184Lisi on January 18, 2011 at 6:59 am

    @106 Sammi —

    Thanks for the questions. I do have an anonymous email for Craigslist. I set up a gmail account, and have it forward to my regular email, so I know immediately when an email comes in. I discovered, however, that, even if I put the gmail account as a return address and send from my regular email — my name goes out as part of the header. I have to open the gmail account and respond from there in order to be anonymous.

    I never post pics on CL. I send them in my first email or two. I usually require that guys send theirs first. It helps set the stage to be a little “demanding” or maybe just have firm boundaries.

    Also, every contact from a male has a certain set of rules for me: if you email, I respond. If you text, I answer. If you call, I talk to you.

    If I keep focused on putting my info out there to draw new ones, and simply responding to the ones who show up — they row.

    Or, they don’t, and they get lost in the shuffle.

    No getting committed on my end because a guy seems like a really hot prospect. Hot is BEHAVIOR — not his resume.

  185.  #185Lisi on January 18, 2011 at 7:01 am

    @107 Femininewoman


    thank you

    Love your advice and comments on here, by the way

  186.  #186Femininewoman on January 18, 2011 at 7:01 am

    Re 169 WonderWoman I almost died laughing while reading your story. Isn’t it amazing how the male mind works. I also have some similar experiences with my son and my boss.

  187.  #187Femininewoman on January 18, 2011 at 7:04 am

    Re 181
    Welcome Lisi, I write to talk to myself and remind myself about how to behave so when I face the situation it will be easier for me.

  188.  #188marina on January 18, 2011 at 7:22 am

    @#169 Wonder Woman
    LOL 😀 thanks for sharing!

  189.  #189marina on January 18, 2011 at 7:34 am

    Hello dear Sirens,

    How are you all doing?

    Yesterday I read the first few pages of The List and it really made me think of some things…

    So, I haven’t set the Alarm with any man I have been (in a relationship with) so far.

    Oh, no, actually, I did do that when I was 19, with a guy who was so in to me. I knew him from scouting.
    I really liked talking to him, bc he studied History in University and he was at that time one of the few people I knew that had gone to University and I wanted to do that too.

    And, I thought that he was gay, bc he was really close with a guy, so I didn’t think there would be much harm in getting to know him better and showing interest.

    Actually after high school I worked at a newspaper with him for 6 months. One of his colleagues was having a baby and I was not studying yet, so he asked me to come and work there. And since I have always had this love for words and writing, I accepted that offer.

    I could feel that I had set his Alarm off, but I was so scared. I really did not want to be with him like that. Also, I didn’t have any experience with guys yet and I was kinda really depressed at that time too.

    A couple of years later he told me he had always wanted to marry me.
    Hmm, probably close to his Alarm, and mine as well, but the timing wasn’t right and right now I really would not want to be with him.

    Haha, do I get a second chance with another guy???

  190.  #190Andi on January 18, 2011 at 7:42 am

    @ 172: Senior Lady Vibe

    Yes it was Jacqueline’s car toy episode i think. But Nancy said she had a whole bunch of other stories like that too!

    I would love to hear more of y’alls funny online dating stories!

  191.  #191Lisi on January 18, 2011 at 7:54 am

    @136 Andi —

    I think it’s hard for us “enabler types” to get our head around this — but, often the most loving thing to do is to let someone experience their pain, and work through it.

    I’ve been through this recently with my ex, who moved 3 hours away for work, and pretty much shut down our relationship.

    For a while, I tried to be loving and giving and lean forward, hoping he’d come back. I was dating, but still very much leaning forward.

    Then I started reading Rori. After I had invited him 9,000 times for Christmas, he called a few days before and said he wouldn’t be coming.

    I left him on his own for Christmas. I did not even call. I also left him on his own for New Year’s. I went to “respond only” space. I’ve been seeing bachelor #1 for 3 months, and decided to let that relationship become sexual.

    Long story short — my ex has just been here for the week end. Suddenly, he’s not too depressed to chase me. He’s more engaged, more sexual, and more in love with me than I’ve ever seen him.

    He didn’t get there because I was “good” to him. He got there because I let him feel his pain, and know how lonely he felt without me.

    As a “giver” — I can learn this NEW way of giving. This way of letting him hurt till he reaches out. Because then — when I receive his love — he heals himself.

    I could never have done it so well.

  192.  #192Andi on January 18, 2011 at 8:02 am

    @185: marina

    Hi Marina, I think I need to get this book, The List. Everyone here keeps talking about it! 🙂

    What you said about setting off the Alarm made me stop and think.

    Does setting off the alarm mean he wants to marry you?

    If that is, then I think I set off alarms. Men I have been involved since I was young say that “I am the marrying kind” of woman and we usually get serious very quickly…the thing is I don’t know if they were really right for me (on a deep level.) I had no experience with a lot of different men, to know if they really set off “my alarm”? But I liked them and they seemed like the best thing going…you just got me thinking. Thank you or sharing your thoughts!

  193.  #193Leo on January 18, 2011 at 8:07 am

    Today in class in Cultural Studies we learned about the “male gaze”. With that we were discussing the movie The Rear Window by Hitchcock.
    And I had to giggle the whole time cause my professors interpretation was soo close to what we talk about here without knowing.

    Well, in the movie the main character has a somewhat-girlfriend but he doesnt really pay attention to her or is much attracted to her. This is while he is sitting in his flat with a broken leg staring out the window all day looking at the other flats and people there. He cant move and is just gazing. And with him, she does this, too. She is kinda next to him and kinda gazing.
    So our prof. said that he wasnt attracted to her for she was also performing this male gaze (this gaze (which means observing others = being somewhat in power)).
    And later on through the story he makes her participate in this story outside of his window. She goes in the backyard and to another apartment there. And starting then he gets interested in her. For she is just there and he is in power (looking, not looking…whatever).So she is on the other side, not performing the male gaze.

    I just thought this had parallels to the whole woman/male-energy.
    He wasnt interested in her as long she was sending out this male vibe but as soon as she was in her female energy he got attracted to her.

    I thought this was funny….
    (Especially with this knowing-smile)

  194.  #194Lisi on January 18, 2011 at 8:14 am

    @ 167 Nancy —

    “1. He makes the first move
    2. He calls you within twenty-four to forty-eight hours to set up a first date.
    3. He makes the first date easy and fun.
    4. He calls you within twenty-four hours to set up subsequent dates – they are easy, fun and one-on-one.
    5. He wants to talk to you every day and wants to spend all his free time with you.
    6. He demonstrates unconditional loyalty.
    7. He talks about marrying you in concrete terms and proposes–or lets you know his intentions.

    Believe it or not, all of these actions will occur within thirty days.


    Well, maybe I’m under-educated because I’ve never been married, but I don’t want or need all of those things in the first 30 days.

    Frankly, I want a man to take his time and get to know me, because marriage is a forever commitment, and people can fake their best behavior for a very long time before you find out who they really are.

    I’ve been dating men who’ve been married a time or two (I’ll be 40 next month), and they are — in a word — gunshy.

    I’m okay with that. I have one friend who had a whirlwind romance with a guy like the list describes. He’s needy, demanding, and she never has time for her friends. Every one of her friends and family has a story about why he’s an ass.

    I don’t want to be smothered. I want a man who’s independent, thoughtful, and, if we slowly come to boil over the course of six months or a year — that’s okay with me.

    And — before I’m wearing his ring on my finger — I want to KNOW him. I want to know who he is when no one else is around and he’s at his most frustrated and his bad behavior comes out. I want to know his shadow side — cuz we’ve all got one. When I can love THAT guy unconditionally — then I’ll marry.

    And not before.

  195.  #195Andi on January 18, 2011 at 8:15 am

    @ 187: Lisi

    Thank you so much for sharing what happened with you…and not seeing him at Christmas…just like me.

    Yes, I am an enabler-type, so yes, not rushing in and trying to enable or fix this situation has been very very difficult, but I know I am growing because I haven’t! I have let us both feel our pain…(and for me it has been HUGE!)

    Your words are soo encouraging. It is good to get validation from other women when I feel insecure and second guess what I am doing. But this helps me stay strong! Thank you!


    “As a “giver” — I can learn this NEW way of giving. This way of letting him hurt till he reaches out. Because then — when I receive his love — he heals himself.

    I could never have done it so well.”


    So well said, Lisi…

    Please keep me posted on how things are going for you!

  196.  #196marina on January 18, 2011 at 8:19 am

    @#188 Andi
    Hi Andi 🙂
    You can read the first few chapters of The List on Google Books.
    I think I’d like to have it too, I will see if they have it at the American Book Centre here.

    Hmm, thanks!
    One of my friends is a beautiful girl and whenever we go out, guys will come up to her and tell her they are so attracted to her and want to marry her. This happens like every weekend. She likes the attention, but it def. doesn’t set off her Alarm. She says, these guys don’t even know me yet, they just like what they see. I would like it if they want me for who I am.


  197.  #197Susan on January 18, 2011 at 8:21 am

    #113 SummerBaby ~ My advice to you is to exercise. Go for brisk walks, take a yoga class or even exhaust yourself at the gym. You have a lot of
    building emotion and no way to release it. If you aim all that emotion at that guy, you will blow him away… literally.

  198.  #198marina on January 18, 2011 at 8:26 am

    @#189 Leo
    Wow, that is beautiful!
    Hmmm, I am going to chew a bit on that image.
    It tastes good!
    So, we are in our friend (perhaps) even male energy, when we sit next to our men.
    We need to sit opposite of him and lean back so he can see us and we can be in our feminine energy.
    Hmm, chewing some more….

  199.  #199marina on January 18, 2011 at 8:32 am

    A couple of weeks ago I actually asked BF2 about that too.

    First I asked if he had found his princess on a white horse yet. And he told me that yes he is currently in a relationship with a woman. But since she is one year older (39) and she doens’t want to have kids. He needs to make up his mind. If he wants to stay with her or not. Bc he has always thought that he would have kids. Then he went to blahblah about how he was not looking forward to having to get used to argue with someone over bills etc.

    (OMG, are these the numbers The List is talking about? So she might not have set off his Alarm too)

    Anyway that is his business.

    I just think that something has got to give. His work or his hobby project: his plane.
    But I suppose that when his Alarm goes off, he wil be willing to change that.


    I also asked him why it didn’t work out with us.
    Bc I had not ring his Alarm. Well he didn’t use those words, but that is what he meant.
    He said he was not feeling it for me and that we could go on for ages and even might end up having kids, but that it would not be fair if we would have to split up after a couple of years (probably bc he might have met someone that did set off his Alarm).

    Also, he said he then thought it would be better to end our relationship, bc we would both still have time to meet someone else.

    Ah, sweet, isn’t it?
    (We split up 6 years ago, so I am not feeling any pain anymore, I actually feel grateful that he was honest then. I already knew it somehow too. When we were still together and he did mention marriage, I just could not see us together like that. I am not going in to thinking mode why and whatifs 😉 It just was

    I am just wondering. Can a woman set off the Alarm of a man, while she is with another man? And then what? Does he respect it that she is with another man? And does he hold these feelings close to him, for when another woman shows up?

    I have alsway thought that BF2 would end up with one of my best friends, and I would be so happy if they would, bc I think that they are awesome together.

    Hmmm, perhaps one day it will happen.

    Or perhaps it did happen, in a parallel universe.
    I like to think that there are parallel universes

  200.  #200Senior Lady Vibe on January 18, 2011 at 8:40 am

    @180: Lisi says:

    “No getting committed on my end because a guy seems like a really hot prospect. Hot is BEHAVIOR — not his resume.”

    Yes, ma’am! I like that.


  201.  #201Summerbaby on January 18, 2011 at 8:42 am

    @ Susan 193,

    That’s a great idea. I’ve been doing some exercise videos and will add a couple more. I love belly dance, so I will throw my energy there. Maybe I’ll actually get good at it. I’m also going to practice more piano. I work a lot (currently 3 jobs) so you would think I was already releasing energy, but not so. I will get there and get in better shape as a result.

    Thank you to all of you for making me feel so welcome and feel safe enough to let this stuff out.


    p.s. loving the dating stories and wonderwoman @169 that was great!

  202.  #202marina on January 18, 2011 at 8:48 am

    @#190 Lisi
    Hi Lisi,
    Yeah, that is what I am wondering about too.
    I came up with this answer.

    I suppose we both know it that we both are the one for eachother if we both are 😉

    And that using Rori’s Tools helps to weed out the ones that are not…
    And that using Rori’s Tools helps to handle situations when someone is showing not his best behaviour.

    Getting to know myself, trust myself, feel my feelings and trust my intuition.

    Also, I suppose that if I set off a man’s Alarm, he is willing to be his best and that he will not show that much bad behavior.

    But that might be a little naive…
    That’s all I can come up with now.

    I think that it is very healthy to lean back and get to know someone thoroughly before you accept a ring.

    And then again I also think that I should trust myself and the other one…

    LOL I really do…


  203.  #203Senior Lady Vibe on January 18, 2011 at 8:50 am

    @180: Lisi says

    “I never post pics on CL. I send them in my first email or two. I usually require that guys send theirs first. It helps set the stage to be a little “demanding” or maybe just have firm boundaries.”

    I’ve been scouting the CL ads in several cities and I see a lot of M4W ads where guys demand photos with first replies from women, threatening to delete otherwise…all the while there are no photos in the guys’s ads! This seems a bit “too much” for me! I want to receive a photo first!


  204.  #204marina on January 18, 2011 at 8:50 am

    @#197 Summerbaby

    Hi Summerbaby,
    Yeah, I loooove belly dancing too!
    I am going to look up a belly dance school.
    Thnx for reminding me and good luck to you!

  205.  #205Lori on January 18, 2011 at 9:17 am

    wow, I’m discovering how liberating it can be to practice feeling messages on someone that makes me feel icky. Met a much older man online who only dates women much younger than himself because he likes to mold and control them. I started getting some icky feelings and my normal response would be to just ignore him and disappear.

    But this time I decided to face my fears of confrontation, because it usually is an issue in my relationships. I hate it so much that I will stuff down my own feelings in order to avoid an argument or fight. So I thought, I’ve never met this man and don’t intend to, so why not practice some healthy disagreeing with him so that I can get better at it?

    I feel really uncomfortable and nervous to open his replies, but it is getting easier each time. I’ve used feeling messages the whole time and explained why his approach to me feels bad. This is really good practice for me because I have no interest in him and absolutely nothing to lose. And he keeps answering and by his own admision he is a “big boy”, so I don’t feel at all like I’m using or taking advantage of him!

  206.  #206Susan on January 18, 2011 at 9:58 am

    @ Senior Lady Vibe # 171:

    You asked “How does that work? Can I start the profile one day and finish it another? Is there an “in construction” symbol or mechanism to keep profile hidden until it’s finished and like I want it to be?”

    Yes, you can start your profile one day and finish it another. No, there isn’t an icon that indicates this. Just write IN your profile that it is still under construction and invite the men to check back. If you don’t upload a pic until it is finished to your liking, it will get FAR less traffic than if there is a pic. Also, you can HIDE the profile when you don’t want to call attention to yourself. My POF and Match profiles are currently hidden, but when I am ready to put myself back out there they will display at the click of an icon on their sites. I keep my hidden profiles updated with current pics and information so I can go public and available quickly and easily. No sense in deleting the profile when not using it, just hide it from view.

  207.  #207Lisi on January 18, 2011 at 9:58 am

    @195 Marina:

    I am just wondering. Can a woman set off the Alarm of a man, while she is with another man? And then what? Does he respect it that she is with another man? And does he hold these feelings close to him, for when another woman shows up?


    This is an area where guys are VERY different from us. A year or two ago, I dated a guy who liked to read porn, and so I used to read it to him in bed. It’s FULL of stories of men watching their wives or GF’s with other men.

    Now, I’m not recommending that we do other men for our guys — so hear me out. But what I gather from that is that men are motivated by competition. And, when you are dating someone else when they meet you, when you are already active and involved, but not exclusive — it motivates them.

    I made a trip out of state and spent a couple of days bonding with my friends and a single guy friend of theirs. Nothing happened physically — definitely a “circular date” kind of situation. When I came home, I told the BF above about it. I felt guilty and weird about it, but knew I hadn’t stepped across my boundaries or our relationship rules.

    His response? He got HARD!

    And I asked if he was mad or upset, and he just gestured to his physical response.

    This was a totally weird and new insight into the male psyche for me.

    Also — Rori’s right that it shifts our vibe. When we have more than one thing going on, we simply cannot spend all our time fixating on Guy A, cuz we are hearing from Guys B, C and D.

    This motivates Guy A — cuz he actually has to work at it to get our attention and get the relationship moving. People value what they work to get.

  208.  #208Lisi on January 18, 2011 at 10:05 am

    @198 Marina —

    I like your answer.

    I think what disturbs me about “The List” is that it’s black and white.

    Humans are fickle and changeable.

    A guy can be motivated to be totally into me at one point, and then lose his interest. I’m learning my needy, clingy “leaning forward” behavior actually facilitates this loss of interest.

    And, partly, I’m emotionally responding to this cuz I chased my ex at first. He wasn’t that good a bf at first, but that has changed.

    It’s an ebb and flow.

    I don’t know if I’ll marry him, but I’ve never loved anyone the way I do him, and I felt so much love from him this week end. He actually kissed me and said, “Let’s have a baby.” And he talked about his current work situation, telling me that he wants to be able to support me, and that’s a concern to him.

    And he didn’t make any of the items on the List. Given what I know about him and how long it takes him to bond and open up in a new situation, and who he is on the inside — I’m not surprised by that.

    Gotta go to work.


  209.  #209Lucy on January 18, 2011 at 10:12 am

    All this talk about writing books about our adventures… I have an amazing relationship adventure book inside me just begging to be written — but I feel sad and disappointed that I can never publish it bc my kids would be mortified by its contents! I’ve tried to think how I could do it anonymously — but it’s too risky — my kids are smart and savvy book lovers and would eventually put the pieces together…. 🙁

  210.  #210Lorelei on January 18, 2011 at 10:22 am

    This is a great post – RR seems to be saying that CD-ing is a bit more flexible than we have perhaps thought.

    I am Cd-ing, and I am beginning to feel worried about how it’s going to go on, as I have 2 men who are both saying they are very interested in me. One is WaveMan (500 miles away, 3 dates, daily texting and a couple of phone calls a week). Another is a newer one, let’s call him TeaMan, who lives locally, second date tonight, and very interested in me- stepping up big time. OK, it’s very early days with both of them, but both are mature men, not players, serious about a new relationship, both good, decent men . . .

    My first worry is that they have both ‘liked’ my professional FB profile – and I wonder what on earth will happen if they meet that way, or both come to one of my public events . . when CD’s collide???!!! My worry is really a feeling of guilt about them finding out about each other.

    But, like other people posting on this thread, I don’t know how long I can feel comfortable seeing men simultaneously . . . WaveMan is talking about introducing me to his friends, about his life’s work being to make me smile . .

    This is all feeling very confusing . . I am quite attracted to both of them. Both physically and emotionally. When I see another CD, ZenMan, I feel turned on by him as well, though only see him about once a month. It’s as if I am in a kind a blur from all the unaccustomed attention. It’s as if my body, anyway, can’t quite tell the difference between them.

    Or is this a Siren thing – to have waves of attraction, in both directions, with more than one man? I am enjoying it – but beginning to feel worried it will blow up in my face somehow . .

    With WaveMan, there is a great deal of humor, and lots of stuff that feels very comfortable, and very caring and cherishing. But my mind/head is fighting with my feelings. My brain says, this could never work, I am not going to move there (there is no infrastructure within which I could do my work). My feelings say, relax, stay open, this is nice, this feels good . .

    Sorry, this is a bit of a ramble . . . have to go get ready now for date with TeaMan

  211.  #211Lucy on January 18, 2011 at 10:24 am

    Daria, I feel curious… is your community service a volunteer thing or something to do with the DUI you mentioned? I hope it went well today! You have been on my mind the past couple days…. thinking of you with fondness…


  212.  #212Lorelei on January 18, 2011 at 10:30 am

    this feels unnerving, crazy – I’m in a text convo with WaveMan, while getting ready for a dinner date with TeaMan. And I don’t want to start lying to anyone . . about where I am . . but I feel weird about what to say to end convo with WaveMan . .

    “I have to go now – seeing another date for supper.”


    Or just go off air.

    “I have to go now – have plans”

    He will text and ask what I’m doing.

    Or just lie – “have to go now – more Salsa.”

    Why do I feel I owe him an explanation? I’m a very honest person, and I hate covering things up.

  213.  #213Lori on January 18, 2011 at 10:48 am


    I’m always honest, but vague at the same time. I always say I have “plans”, but never actually say a “date”. If it’s kind of a cool thing I might say “gotta go, heading to a concert.” If they ask if it’s a date, I will be honest and say yes, but I don’t volunteer any more info other than that I’m busy and have plans. If you’re not exclusive, you’re not doing anything wrong. Nothing to feel bad about. When you’re not with them, they may be on dates with other women too, and since you are leaning back, you’re probably not asking questions about this….

  214.  #214Lori on January 18, 2011 at 10:49 am


    You “feel” like you owe him an explanation because that’s what YOU would want if the situation were reversed. But I find that men generally don’t want as much information as we do in the beginning stages.

  215.  #215Femininewoman on January 18, 2011 at 10:53 am

    Lorelei it is also your life and until they step up to the plate I would suggest you owe no one an explanation. It will begin to feel like they are violating your space or overwhelming.

  216.  #216Lucy on January 18, 2011 at 11:02 am

    Nancy, thanks for posting the excerpt from The List. I have been curious about it.

    What you posted is exactly what happened when I started dating my ex-h. He did all those things, and I didn’t have to “worry, wait, or wonder.” (The only thing I Did wonder and wait about was whether my attraction toward him would grow….)

    Within a month he was saying, “I’m almost 100% sure you’re the woman I want to marry” and two months later, at Christmas, he surprised me with a diamond ring, a down on one knee proposal in my old bedroom at my parents’ house where we were spending Christmas, and immediate talk of setting a date for the following summer.

    He was treating me well, doing everything Rori says a man should do, had a good job, good family, volunteered at his church, was loved by all who knew him — and I wanted to be married and be a mother and be loved and cared for — so, even though I wasn’t head over heels in love or particularly attracted to him, his Alarm was going off and he seemed like a good candidate.

    So I married him.

    I know now that his Alarm went off because he could sense on an subconscious level that I was a perfect fit to meet the needs of his pathology.

    I have a hunch that the Alarm is more about THAT — a woman matching/meeting his unconscious and unhealthy needs. That’s why the man “has to have her.”

    And that’s why there are so many divorces.

    I also know now that my lack of strong attraction to him was because on some level I knew he wasn’t right for me. I am finding that my attraction for a man is tied into my intuition of whether he is healthy for me or not. I should have listened to that and trusted myself. I almost broke off the engagement shortly before the wedding, but he and friends and family talked me out of it.

    But — he did meet my conscious needs to be married, have children, and be cared for financially.

    This time I am holding out for a man I adore — not just a man whose Alarm I ring.

    The other thing about The List is that I know so many healthy and lasting marriages where it did NOT happen that quickly and easily, and the man did not know right away, but grew to love and appreciate the woman through meaningful shared experiences… sometimes after breaking up with her because he wasn’t feeling “It.”

    So, I think the Alarm is more about a reaction to unconscious wounds and needs — unless the man is keenly self-aware.

    That’s not necessarily a bad thing — the union will meet his needs for awhile and then create (possibly in a crisis point) an opportunity for genuine intimacy (his mission should he choose to accept it) and the chance to grow, heal, and change, hopefully together with his partner.

    My two cents. 🙂

  217.  #217Lucy on January 18, 2011 at 11:13 am

    Wow, Lisi. I just read #190. I agree completely!

  218.  #218marina on January 18, 2011 at 11:15 am

    Dear Sirens,

    Just having a laugh here, are you familiair with Reckless Tortuga’s Psycho Girlfriend series?

    Season 1 Ep. 1
    There are 2 seasons.

  219.  #219Lori on January 18, 2011 at 11:18 am


    Thanks for that. I just ordered the List and want to keep an open mind while reading it. I’ve had the same experience you have with 2 men, one I married, one I didn’t. The one I married proposed to me after 2 weeks. (I turned him down until we had been together 6 months and finally agreed) He called his mother the day he met me and told he he’d just met the woman he was going to marry and the mother of his children. He was a serial cheater, and I think he saw something in me that made him feel he could either stop this behavior or get away with it, I’m still not sure. But yes, I made his alarm go off, and no, he wasn’t right for ME….

  220.  #220Senior Lady Vibe on January 18, 2011 at 11:19 am

    I thought I’d say this because this relationship requirement has arisen out of my activities of the day.

    I do not want a “weenie-weasel” man. I want a big, strong, masculine man who will be loyal to me, back me up, protect me and go to bat for me.

    I want to know that whatever happens he “has my back” and is not cowering in the depths of the cave while I’m left at the entrance fighting off hordes of barbarians.

    And big, strong and masculine has nothing to do with his height nor the measurements of his genitals, it has to do with the quality and size of his character.

    …just saying…

    Yeah, that would be someone like my Dad… who would always go to bat for me. He was a fearless, charming, smooth and intelligent talker and if that didn’t work… he had money and if that didn’t work…well, he had a gun too.

    And if that didn’t work, Hell, I know he’d grab my hand and we’d make a run for it…together…


  221.  #221Lucy on January 18, 2011 at 11:20 am

    Lorelei — about your text convo — I just usually say, “gtg, felt good connecting with you!” — and that’s it. Keeps the mystery alive and my integrity intact. 🙂

  222.  #222Lori on January 18, 2011 at 11:21 am

    SLV re #216


  223.  #223Lucy on January 18, 2011 at 11:22 am

    “And if that didn’t work, Hell, I know he’d grab my hand and we’d make a run for it…together…”

    Aw, SLV, it felt so good to read that post! I feel that way, too — about the right man for me and about my dad. 🙂

  224.  #224Jilly on January 18, 2011 at 11:22 am

    Hey Sirens! 🙂

    well I’m back from a family vacation and it feels GREAT to be home….

    I do have something on my mind that I would like some input from you guys…

    ok..so I’ve been dating pipeliner guy for about 4 months now and it’s turned into a long distance thing 🙁 and I’m definitely CD’ing..but the last time he visited about a week 1/2 ago he called himself my boyfriend….i didn’t say anything…because we’ve never talked about exclusivity (he’s never asked me for it)

    …so the past few days I’ve been wondering if I should bring it up and also state (in feeling messages of coarse) what my boundaries are…like what I’m looking for…


    do I just keep going with the flow?? is this me wanting to create drama cause it’s going so good?? meaning..he texts every morning and calls me at night and is very loving and caring and I’m able to express myself to him…(he says I talk in a magical way LOL) I love it!!
    I keep myself in check and don’t feel like I’m super attached to any outcome with him (I am definitely falling in love with him though)…I just don’t want to bring something up if it’s not necessary

    on our very first date he asked me what I was looking for and I said… marriage and kids and that I felt “boyfriended out” lol probably wouldn’t say it like that now but anywho…that’s the most we’ve really talked about it

    part of me wants him to know that he doesn’t have me all to himself and (I’ve expressed that I’m only willing to do the long distance thing as long as there is an end in sight) well right now there is no end in sight… he’s told me he’s not going to do that job forever..

    I hope this is making sense…but..I’m wondering if I should just go with it…or say something…i feel uncertain…in some posts above some sirens were talking about “him” needing to feel the pressure….I know he’s feeling some pressure from himself about his job and “us” but I don’t think he’s feeling the pressure about me keeping my options open..and if that’s necessary…part of me feels like it is???

    Sorry for the long post…what do you guys think????

  225.  #225marina on January 18, 2011 at 11:50 am

    @#212 Lucy and #215 Lori
    Thanks for sharing!

    I don’t think that it is necessary that it happens in 30 days, especially when I keep in mind what you said.
    I just think that when it goes right, the guy does take these steps and the relationship is evolving.
    And with working on Rori’s Tools, we can get there, we have to be ready too.

    If I look at my friends, it’s been happening a lot lately.
    Guy friends of mine who were always saying they don’t want kids or don’t want to get married, and then they meet this one girl and POOOOOOF they want to marry her and want kids. A girl friend of mine whose other boyfriend died in an accident, she has been mourning for some years, meets a new guy and now they wil get married.

    Might be our age (around 30) as well I suppose 😉
    I wonder what it is like when you have been married before and are in your 30’s , 40’s, 50’s etc.
    I do believe that Rori’s Tools apply then as well, from what I have read here.

  226.  #226Senior Lady Vibe on January 18, 2011 at 11:53 am

    @189: Leo says:
    “…Today in class in Cultural Studies we learned about the “male gaze”. With that we were discussing the movie The Rear Window by Hitchcock…”

    Fabulous. I love this old classic film. To reminisce, I saw this film in its original theatrical release! I was a very little girl but I remember seeing it on big screen in a big theater.

    I don’t remember exactly but I think it was in Radio City Music Hall/NYC; films used to be shown there along with a Rockettes high-kicking performance. I’ve seen it many times since on much smaller screens.

    A bit of film trivia: the “bad man across the courtyard” was played by Raymond Burr who went on to great success in TV, playing the Perry Mason character for ten years and then Ironside character for another ten years.

    Thanks for bringing this up. I’m going to order “Rear Window” and this time view it keeping in mind the “gaze” premise you mentioned. This is going to be fun!

    And to get girlie…I just love Grace Kelly’s clothes in “Rear Window.” If you haven’t seen “To Catch A Thief” in which she starts with Cary Grant, go watch that one too! I think you will like it very much.


  227.  #227marina on January 18, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    Hi Jilly,

    Welcome back.
    I don’t really know what you should do, sorry…

    I hope some other Sirens can enlighten you.

    What would you advise a girl friend of yours?

  228.  #228marina on January 18, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    You can watch Rear Window on youtube!

  229.  #229Senior Lady Vibe on January 18, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    @190: Lisi says:
    “And — before I’m wearing his ring on my finger — I want to KNOW him. I want to know who he is when no one else is around and he’s at his most frustrated and his bad behavior comes out. I want to know his shadow side — cuz we’ve all got one. When I can love THAT guy unconditionally — then I’ll marry.
    And not before…”

    I hear you. My take on this is: it could be true…a guy might really make that decision within 30 days on who in his mind is a serious contender for marriage — it’s perhaps just the way that men “imprint.”

    He knows he wants *that woman*and then she takes her time to find if she wants *him*. Nothing much is going to happen until she says “yes.”

    But it’s always good to know if marriage is indeed on the table or if men are regarding us as merely a pre-dinner “snack.”


  230.  #230marina on January 18, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    LOL, Rear Window could be shot at my place… My neighbours across the green field in front and behind my flat can look into my living room and kitchen and bed room like that too… Sometimes I feel spied upon all of the time…

  231.  #231Senior Lady Vibe on January 18, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Gee, I’m so far behind on reading posts…

  232.  #232Femininewoman on January 18, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    RE 220 Jilly I think only you know what you should do. Personally I would not respond to him labelling himself or to him labelling me. I have been introduced time and time again by one as his wife. One introduced another as his girlfriend and me as his wife. In such cases, especially when I am not invested, I lean back and just listen to them fluffing their feathers or I guess marking their territory. You know guys are territorial. I also believe that it is their way of getting themselves used to the idea. I also think they might be testing to see if desperation or jealousy will arise. One guy told me he had given his girlfriend he was dating a key. Once she went there and noticed thank some things were done and asked about it. When he told her another girl had done the thing for him, she became jealous and started to be aggresive with his friend. Until they ask me to marry I allow them to fantasize or *hag themselves. If they ask I am now prepared what they have to offer and lay down what I am expecting. Right now I don’t even believe in practicing exclusivity unless there is a ring and a date so whoever want to say what they want they can go ahead.

  233.  #233Simply Shannon on January 18, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    I like The List!
    1. He makes the first move
    2. He calls you within twenty-four to forty-eight hours to set up a first date.
    3. He makes the first date easy and fun.
    4. He calls you within twenty-four hours to set up subsequent dates – they are easy, fun and one-on-one.
    5. He wants to talk to you every day and wants to spend all his free time with you.
    6. He demonstrates unconditional loyalty.
    7. He talks about marrying you in concrete terms and proposes–or lets you know his intentions.

    I personally believe that a man should be doing all of these things right upfront. Dang that would feel scary… having a man coming at me full board. My little ol’ brain would be throwing up some major fear… what’s wrong with him? Is he a stalker? I wonder when all of this will stop. 3 months tops. I can hear my NVs now.

    But the fact is, when a guy is not coming at me this strong, I feel sorta lukewarm about him. It changes how I feel. Which signals me to believe that I DO want these things. Right away. In the first 30 days. Why wouldn’t I want them other than fear?

    Haha. Bring it on buddy. I double dog dare you to ask me to marry you in 30 days or less. 🙂 I can still choose to wait until it feels right.

    And frankly if I’m not feeling this level of pursuit right off the bat, then maybe I do need to tell the guy no and move on. I’ve spent way too much time trying to turn Mr. Lukewarm into Prince Charming.


  234.  #234Rori Raye on January 18, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    Cathy – did you download it in the first place and save it to your computer? If not, if you still have your emails that have the password, etc…email support@havetherelationshipyouwant.com – they’ll take care of you immediately….

    If you need help knowing how to download it to your computer – ask them for specifics in your email to them – and follow the directions exactly….Love, Rori

  235.  #235Daria on January 18, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    Feelin good at comm service

  236.  #236Senior Lady Vibe on January 18, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    @177: archerie

    Shades of the message sent to you:

    Oh, yuck! Guy in another forum posted to woman:

    “P.S. You’re doing GREAT for someone your age! 😉 ” [the wink is his and she had a shipload of techie errors]

    Well, all rightey… but I don’t believe the woman ever mentioned what her age actually is… there is a picture… so what’s his message?

    Oh, I know…”I mean well but I’m not going to think first before I write something to you…”


  237.  #237Rori Raye on January 18, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    Lee – here’s the thing – if there’s all this “drama” and fighting – you are as responsible for that happening as he is. When you can work on what’s making you talk and act in a way that’s confrontive instead of in my Rori Raye style – that’s when everything will change. Start with the ebook – Have The Relationship You Want (over in the sidebar) – and it will all be clear to you. Love, Rori

  238.  #238Jilly on January 18, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    thanks marina and femininewoman for responding 🙂 I know…what would I say to a girlfriend of mine??? hmmm…

    and I’ve definitely been leaning back and just going along with my life while he’s working like crazy…i do feel happy…I’m not going to do anything right now…I’ll just be with these uncertain feelings…that feels better to me 🙂

    I want to share a little conversation we had while I was on vacation…

    preview..over christmas my roommate offered him some buddy passes to fly home to New York so i gave him her number incase he had any problems flying standby….

    then while I was on vacation this last week…he told me over the phone that he texted her asking where that airline flies for tropical destinations…well after we got off the phone I started feeling bad…like WTF…he’s texting my roommate????? that feels weird and I don’t like it!! even though I do trust him and her I still felt icky about it…
    so I slept on it and when he texted me in the morning (3 am my time..and he doesn’t have time to really chat before work so texting is awesome for us in the morning)..I said

    I went to bed feeling bad 🙁 I feel on guard and vulnerable hearing that the guy I’m dating is texting my roommate..it feels weird to me…I don’t want to feel that way 🙁

    HIM: baby I’m sorry, I didn’t want you to feel that way. I won’t text her if it bothers you..I just don’t want you to be upset

    ME: thank you 🙂

    and that was that…I felt amazing inside myself for saying how I felt…just that feeling alone is enough for me to want to speak my truth! yay 🙂

  239.  #239marina on January 18, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    Ahw Jilly, it must feel very encouraging when a (your) guy responds like that to your feeling message.
    I feel happy for you 🙂

  240.  #240Senior Lady Vibe on January 18, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    @204: Susan

    Hi Susan. I might need more help here.

    “… write IN your profile that it is still under construction and invite the men to check back…”

    *Where* do put “IN?” Or do I just include it somewhere in the narrative?

    “…Also, you can HIDE the profile when you don’t want to call attention to yourself. My POF and Match profiles are currently hidden, but when I am ready to put myself back out there they will display at the click of an icon on their sites…”

    Is there a special “hidden” button to click in the dating web sites?

    “.. I keep my hidden profiles updated with current pics and information so I can go public and available quickly and easily. No sense in deleting the profile when not using it, just hide it from view…”

    OK, I think I get it…I can update my profiles in an ongoing fashion and whenever I am ready to “get out there” I can click something and be “out there” for a time and when ready to close the door I can “unclick” and have hidden profiles again.

    Is that it?

    Thanks!!!! I hope I’m “getting it.”


  241.  #241Senior Lady Vibe on January 18, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    More thoughts. Riffs and flips.

    I want a guy who is thoughtful and doesn’t say weird things to women or make jokes about ethnicity.

    OMG, OMG This is going to be S-O-O-O-O-O difficult.

    Breathe, Sleevarino, breathe…

    Whoo, whoo, whoo,

    breathing out, breathing out, breathing out.

    This is like Lamaze.

    I don’t know if I can do this.

    Yes, you can do it.



  242.  #242marina on January 18, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    Hi SLV,
    I think you can do this!
    Can I help you a little?

    ‘I want a guy who is thoughtful and doesn’t say weird things to women or make jokes about ethnicity.’

    I want a guy who is thoughtful and says wonderful things to women and respect ethnicity.

    Something like that?

  243.  #243Femininewoman on January 18, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    Any of you Sirens watching Sex in the City? I find it has a lot of insights about relationships. One thing I learnt there is that the bad relationship helfp defines what the good one we are wanting really looks like.

  244.  #244marina on January 18, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    Lol Femininewoman, that is exactly what my girlfriends say about their former relationships 🙂

  245.  #245Darling Ella on January 18, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    Femininewoman #243:

    I have been a big fan of the show…Purchased all seasons and watched it several times…Just the other week, I tried to have some “me” time and enjoy a few episodes again…

    Well, post Rori teachings, I have to say, the show, for the 1st time, annoyed me…All characters seems bitter, negative, whinny…I could not believe myself…:(

    Warm hugs,

  246.  #246Senior Lady Vibe on January 18, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    @209: Lucy says:

    “… I have an amazing relationship adventure book inside me just begging to be written — but I feel sad and disappointed that I can never publish it bc my kids would be mortified by its contents! …”

    Write an original narrative screenplay and deny, deny, deny.

    Have fun, be happy, maybe win money. Deadline April 30th.

    Don & Gee Nicholl Fellowships in Screenwriting

    Questions, check the FAQ. Not your usual writing format? check the wonderful bibliography.

    When you are “thanking the members of the Academy” your children will forgive you… 😀


  247.  #247Femininewoman on January 18, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    Re 245 I guess you are right but I did not see it that way. It highlighted to me how unlightened some of us can be in relationships. Also the way men can act, how we can handle their actions, mistakes, the types of personalities that might go together, how men come back. I am learning a lot of stuff.

  248.  #248Laughing Goddess on January 18, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    Lucy: re 69-72

    Thank you so much for your feedback. I resonate with everything you said. I won’t even go into detail because everything you said felt relevant and helpful.

    We are already really good friends. Our lives are very intertwined. We spend the holidays together (our whole group of friends), we play music together at least twice a week (in a group). In fact, the past four nights in a row, we’ve done something together as a group. He lives just up the road from me.

    He and I don’t really do things alone. We used to be closer but I pulled back because I felt uncomfortable with the ambiguity of my feelings. We’ve never talked about our feelings for each other, beyond just a general friendly appreciation of each other.

    So….ya. Not sure where I was going with that expect to say I am extremely close friends with him (we call each other family) but I tend to avoid alone time with him preferring to interact in a group setting.

  249.  #249Senior Lady Vibe on January 18, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    @212: Lorelei says:
    “I have to go now – seeing another date for supper.”

    Oh, I’d say: I have to go; I’m going out to dinner. I think that’s enough.

    I don’t believe I have to keep secrets nor discuss my other relationships either particularly in early days.

    It’s no big deal to introduce guys to each other either, if need be. Be casual. Funny thing, both of them always perk up. 😆

    Go have fun!


  250.  #250Susan on January 18, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    @ Senior Lady Vibe ~

    Yes, you are understanding!

    You wrote: “*Where* do put “IN?” Or do I just include it somewhere in the narrative?”

    The answer is yes. There is a body section in the profiles where you can write whatever you want to write. If you aren’t finished, you can write in there that you are still working on your profile.

    You wrote: “Is there a special “hidden” button to click in the dating web sites?”

    My answer: Each site has a different way to hide your profile. And they don’t make it easy to find it because they do better if your profile is visible. But those two (POF & Match) do allow you to hide the profile. You will just have to look around for the place to click to make it happen. In POF, you click on Edit My Profile and the choice to hide or unhide should be there.

    You wrote” “OK, I think I get it…I can update my profiles in an ongoing fashion and whenever I am ready to “get out there” I can click something and be “out there” for a time and when ready to close the door I can “unclick” and have hidden profiles again.”

    My answer: That is correct. And I do keep mine updated even if I’m not displaying it. I am currently 54 years old and at this point in time, this is what the free text says in my profile:

    “I’m 5’10”, blond, divorced, curvy but not fat, raising a teen, a good cook, a non smoker, a seldom drinker and I go to the gym AND I practice yoga. I’m seeking a man with a similar outlook and habits (you can skip the yoga if you want.) I live near Keller and I am a homeowner.

    I find I seem to ‘fit’ better with slightly younger men. I’m certainly not counting out men older than me BUT… I have a lot of ‘personal’ energy; I need someone who can keep up. I am not looking for casual sex or married men and I’m not looking to be rescued. I am seeking someone who is into me as much as I am into him (eventually.)

    ADDED NOTE: I realize after dating for a while, that it is apparently necessary to make this request… Please determine your BMI before contacting me. If you don’t know what that is, Google it, plug in your stats and determine your BMI. If it is 30 or more, please don’t embarrass yourself by contacting me. I may not be skinny, but I work hard to take care of myself and I am interested in meeting people with a similar outlook and personal habits. No matter WHAT you SAY, if your BMI is 30 or more there is no WALK supporting your TALK.

    Now, back to my profile…

    I prefer rock music over country music and prefer attending concerts than going to bars (I can’t take the smoke.) I go to a lot of live performances, ranging from high school productions to commercial productions. The last high school production I saw was Urine Town and the last Bass Hall performance I saw was Spring Awakening. I’ve also recently seen Wicked – it defied gravity. My favorite concert I attended was Sick Puppies at The House Of Blues. It was great! I love the Pups!! I most recently saw Shinedown in concert and they put on a wonderful show.

    I used to sail and would like to take up sailing again. It would be nice to meet someone who is familiar with the lakes around here. My past sailing experience was along the Pacific Coast and was many years ago. I’d probably have to learn all over again.

    Since I am tall, I prefer tall men but that isn’t an absolute dealbreaker. If you smoke, use drugs, want me to ride on the back of your motorcycle or if you drink to excess we are not a good match. If you like music and movies and sex (not necessarily in that order) we might just get along.”

  251.  #251marina on January 18, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    LOL, meanwhile I am watching Rear Window, very nice movie!!!
    And, was the script written for us Sirens or what???
    Also, love to see Grace Kelly and the beautiful clothes she wears….

  252.  #252Laughing Goddess on January 18, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    Lucy: I feel curious to hear what you think given that new info. 🙂

  253.  #253Ella on January 18, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    I am feeling antsy today.

    Yesterday I found out through a mutual ‘friend’ who just thought she would call up and tell me, that my ex is engaged to be married to the woman he got with just after we split up.

    She also went on to tell me how they had spent Xmas together and met each others family… just as we did when we first met… and his mum said I was like a daughter, and stay in touch no matter what, and then dropped me like a hot potato.

    Those who know my story here know that he and I planned to marry until the relationship became disconnected and sexless and after a long, traumatic time of struggling to hold it all together (6 months) I left. This was pre RR days.

    And I wonder all the time if things would have been different if I had known about RR when I was still with him.

    Well I really struggled to get over him and was in denial for ages that it was actually over. He met somone and got into another relationship soon after we broke up and now, 9 months on, they are engaged to be married.

    When I heard the news I kinda freaked out inside.

    I still don’t really know how I feel, it feels hard to talk about, like a huge swirling jumble of feelings.

    I am gonnna try and list some of them:

    I feel:

    Like a failure / not good enough,

    And confused bc I am with Mr Barman now and it is making me re-look at and question that relationship and whether it is what I want.

    My ex was much more together in terms of income / good career / owning property etc…

    I just feel so confused that a man can say the words he said to me and be the way he was with me and 9 months later be engaged to someone else.

    I wanted to text him yesterday… and in a way I still do… but he is not contacting me about this…

    I just want him to know I FEEL F8CKING HURT and I feel like it is his fault!!

    I know I gotta heal this…

    Who I am really angry at? Is it me? Him??

    Just angry.

    Is there any point in telling him how I feel?

    I feel like a failure.

    And I kinda want some explanation… but I know that if I did share any feelings it would have to be without agenda, and I just can’t do that right now!


    I FEEL FURIOUS – like he has got away scot free and I am the one suffering?!! Why?

    I feel confused.

    And also I feel F8CKING FURIOUS that I am still giving him so much power after he obviously didn’t step up… but I kinda feel like it is my fault… like if I had just known what to do… maybe it coulda been fixed, cus he was so loving at first.

    Is he a toxic man in disguise? This feels comforting. I think definitely toxic to me…

    But I feel so jealous that he has simply moved his focus onto another woman, just like that, I had been replaced. And it feels hurtful!

    Please can you help me heal this Sirens?

    I am hurting.

  254.  #254Simply Shannon on January 18, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    Ella, if it is any comfort at all, these are the exact same feelings I had when my ex announced he was engaged. A part of me also felt relief, like phew now I can really let him go. I also felt really scared because my brain was telling me that door is now closed shut, i.e. no going back.

    And it does hurt to feel “not chosen” but I am really doing my best to remember we broke up for a reason and another man will be even better for me.

    The nasty voices are taking you back in time and they put on some rose colored glasses too. At the time, it wasn’t right, wasn’t meant to be for whatever reason… and God has something BETTER in store in the future.

  255.  #255Simply Shannon on January 18, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    And another tool I used to help me get over it initially was to pretend the two of them are really jacked up thinking this is eva gonna work out. I gave them 6 months tops. It helped to imagine it that way.

    Fortunately I was able to work through the anger/ fear of it. Now I pray for them. Irony. 🙂

  256.  #256Ella on January 18, 2011 at 1:57 pm

    There is another issue I am dealing with right now too.

    Mr Barman has moved to a shared house, out of the pub, which I feel positive about as I believe it will lead to him being more independant.

    This feels positive bc I have sometimes questioned whether he is sometimes a bit much in his fem energy, and get impression he has been in relationships where the women have rowed the boat, done the washing/cleaning/cooking, sorted the bills and finances etc…

    Now he is with me and I don’t do those things and it is meaning he is getting to be in his man energy BUT he still drifts back towards fem energy a lot… and this feels challenging bc my issue has always been with picking up the slack and slipping into doing masc energy!

    Here in lies the challenge.

    Esp with dates cus I always have such great ideas about what I’d like to do on dates the I have a really hard time leaving the panning to him, and trusting that he will come up with something I will enjoy!

    Don’t want to waste my leisure time… hmmm, maybe that can be one of my ‘don’t wants’.

    And now, as he has moved and changed circumstances, he has suddenly hit some financial difficulties.

    So where he was paying without question for everything before, now it feels like a sticking point, and I feel guilty and feeling the urge to chip in!

    But that might upset the balance!

    Example: Last 2 weeks he hasn’t had much phone credit, so a few times he has texted me and asked me to call him…

    But this feels a bit weird to me.

    But I want to be supportive.

    Need some help with this one too.

    How to handle, stay in fem energy w/o being a total B8tch!

    I would really appreciate Siren advice and input so I can stay Sireny!


  257.  #257Simply Shannon on January 18, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    Ella, as long as he is telling you what to do, he’s leading. “Call me back”. That’s a directive. Ya know?

    As to the financial thing, I’d definitely pull back on the date ideas. His date suggestions means he pays. Let him pick free stuff if he wants. That’s what is within his means for now. I believe Rori has some posts about women who make more money than their men.

    If you feel bored with something he picks, you don’t have to go out with him. Find a girlfriend and go do XYZ with her.

  258.  #258Ella on January 18, 2011 at 2:07 pm


    Yes I do remember a little while back reading about your experience of this.

    Right now I am feeling a bit stuck again… not relieved yet, just all the other stuff! I thought I was over him….

    I would like to feel relieved.

    But the feelings are kinda swirling around and I feel able to cope…

    what I mean is that they are not all consuming, as the used to be.

    Its like they have lost their power (my feelings) to hit deep down to the core on this issue.

    But it still feels really icky.

    I guess some level of me kinda still believes he is for me… Unable to let go… ego? In denial?

    But I don’t know why as it has been clearly proved that he isn’t time and again.

    That is why I feel stuck, like a part of me which can’t let know.

    And I think the crux of it is feeling DECIEVED!

    And that feels scary, like unable to trust, in self or others.

    Feels like being unable to let go, but own worst enemy as really nothing to hold onto here!

    Anyway, thanks SS, it helps to know you went through it and healed it!


  259.  #259PrairieGirl on January 18, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    Okay.. I was home when Smooth Cowboy called today… so I answered.. it was nice.. I used feeling messages and he responded.. basically gave me a list of all he’d been doing that had him busy…

    That man can sweep the pants off me completely by NOT trying……Oh wait..he already did..lol

    I told him what I missed about him (the kinds of things we talk about – he’s a history major and we talk a lot about Texas history which I find fascinating)

    He talked about teaching a friend of his how to do chores so he can get away from the ranch…at one point I ask if seeing me was one of the trips he was talking about and he say yes very emphatically….

    I hem/haw at first… not knowing how to say what I feel…but finally say in effect (and NOT in FM I’m sad to admit) that whenever a guy changes and I don’t hear from him I think I never will again.. that he’s leaving… That I feel really good when he calls but that I basically surprised…That I wouldn’t think any less of him I still think he’s a good guy… I said I know his “scars” cross his mind and he said yes but you do too…

    It was a great conversation until that ending… I feel like every phone call has some deep feeling to it and that that CAN’T be attractive…

    On a positive note.. I don’t feel the hook… It’s WAY faded (probably why he’s calling lol)

    Here’s the rub… I want to feel excited about someone who feels that way for ME! I’m tired of it feeling like magnets…if I go away they follow if I’m interested and turn toward the go away…

    I’d like to be “into” someone who is as equally into me at the SAME time…

    I feel like I blew it somewhat w/this conversation… but really can only feel mildly upset…

    I find I feel most upset because I didn’t do FMs…didn’t use all that I’m learning here… That saddens me because I worry I’m not really learning in if it doesn’t come out when I need it…

    I am really good at FM for when happy/even sad… but when I want to say “hey every time you don’t call for days I grieve and brace myself for never hearing from you again”…

    I hope I am learning… I want to get this stuff… I really feel like it will change my life for the better…

    I feel very thankful to have this place to vent… and learn… Thank you Sirens…

    Angels on your bodies.
    Prairie Girl

  260.  #260Ella on January 18, 2011 at 2:10 pm


    Yes, you are right… he is still leading by telling me what to do.

    I think I am dragging some of my ‘ex’ situation over to our relationship.

    I have found myself feeling REALLY angry with him a few times since I got the news.

    And being really judgemental of him and comparing him to my ex.

    And none of this is fair!

    Its like I am pissed at my ex but he is not here so I am being resistant to Mr Barman instead!

    Huh, I feel resistant… like GRRRR to men right now.

    And also I feel a lil sad, that I feel like that.

  261.  #261Senior Lady Vibe on January 18, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    @228: marina says:
    You can watch Rear Window on youtube!


    @242: marina says:
    “Hi SLV,
    I think you can do this!
    Can I help you a little?
    ‘I want a guy who is thoughtful and says wonderful things to women and respect ethnicity…’ ”

    Thanks, Marina.

    Yes, that was helpful. Your phrase is very good and sums up what I want. I am going to copy it.


  262.  #262Simply Shannon on January 18, 2011 at 2:19 pm

    Ella, … but so good to notice this about yourself! When I feel angry, it spills over into everything else too.

    As for my ex, it took me awhile to get there. I had the opportunity to talk through it with him (we have kids so it is my business). Maybe write down what you would want to say to him in a letter. Just to get it out of your system. Maybe??

    Gotta run. I know for myself that this gets better. It’s all healing within us and trusting that God is going to provide BETTER no matter what happens.

  263.  #263PrairieGirl on January 18, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    Oh and I think I had an “epiphany” on Cop Guy today… the reason I can’t get “excited ” about him… He doesn’t make me laugh…ever… and he doesn’t laugh at anything I say…AND nothing he says is ever interesting… it’s weird but even stuff about his life and all… not interesting…calls when he says he will… texts.. stays in contact… but not funny/interesting

    Smooth Cowboy laughs at so much of what I say… seeming to enjoy himself… and, as stated in the last post is very interesting to me…

    Sigh… now to find the whole package…

    Prairie Girl

  264.  #264Jeannette on January 18, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    Sirens, I am still engaged to Steve but I worry a lot. A lot about his health….a lot about money.. I think my grown kids do too. They don’t ask me about him generally when they call. I feel like their avoiding telling me….”mom, what does he REALLY have to offer?” I am a more mature woman and I need financial stability more now than ever….I don’t want to abandon him. He’s sick, I would think my kids would understand that.

  265.  #265marina on January 18, 2011 at 2:46 pm

    Hi SLV,
    I liked what you wrote about your Dad!
    I feel glad that he is such a wonderful role model for you and what guy you want 🙂

    @#631 SLV on the previous thread ( I’m a BIT behind…)

    “I don’t know but I do have kind of a motto to “make the best of what there is” and to allow myself to feel gratitude for and enjoy the gifts I’ve already been given.

    I still take a lot of things for granted. I’m trying to do better.
    Lesson for me: taking careful stock of what I have. I’m pretty resourceful, one of my assets, but I still overlook some things too. I’m setting an intention to look even more closely at myself and what’s around me.”

    That reminded me of some text I once received. Unfortanetely I apparently threw the text (digital and in print..) with lots of other beautiful texts away… 🙁

    It starts a little sad (probably to shock you and get the message accross) about this guy who is unpacking some beautiful lingerie of his wife who has just died. He bought it for her and she was saving it for a special occasion. He says this probably is this special occasion and he will put it on her for her funeral (really sad 🙁

    The message of course it not to save things for special occasions. But use them now, bc every day is a special occasion and you are special enough to enjoy all your beautiful things everyday 🙂
    So for example use your silverware and crystal glasses everyday.

    Alicia’s example of a inspirational board or power point to watch everyday inspired me to make one.

    Also, I would like to make some with my old photographs that I would like to digitalize. I have quite a few and it feels so good to see my family and friends in it 🙂

    So, I looked through some photo books. And I felt so sad when I saw pictures of me when I was around 17. I remember I felt soooooo depressed. I was a little chubby then, just some babyfat. But I felt sooooo bad. I had some acne. I remember I felt so alone and not understood and like life was not worth living. I was not worth living and life was not worth it to be enjoyed. I always wore ugly big tshirts and pants and dark clothes and no make up and not even brahs and I cut off my beautiful hear and wished I could live in the prehistorian or middle ages. I hated everything about my life and todays society.
    I didn’t take good care of myself at all and just felt so dirty and heavy somehow.

    I feel so glad that I am in a different place right now. I know I am a little depressed or overworked or should I say bored out with my life.

    But I am starting to open my heart for life, the world, myself and everybody. Oh, that feels a bit scary to say, I feel afraid that I will jinx it.

    I loooooooove wearing my beautiful colorful clothes now and put on some make up everyday. Even if I don’t feel very beautiful, I feel more happy when I know I look my best.

    I actually put a broche of a big pink satin rose on my winter coat and people start to smile when they see it and compliment it. I love it!

    I love to surround myself with beautiful things. I accept that I love beauty and do no longer feel guilty about it.

    I bought some of these dresses. They are perfect for wintertime and I think they are beautiful.

    Also, Missussmarty Pants styling tips helped me:

    Hihi, funny you called that guy Festivalguy…
    Since BF4 used to call me Festivalgirl bc I used to go to many many festivals and events…

    I don’t know if I should try and contact him.
    Isn’t that leaning forward?
    And I don’t really know what to say to him either. He has not accepted my FB request last year. But he is still one of my LinkedIn connections.

    My Mum actually has green eyes too, I think she is very beautiful.
    Somehow I feel more at ease with brown eyed people though…

    I am not really bothered with my height. Sometimes I wish that I was a little smaller like the rest of the world seems to be (unless I go to the north of the Netherlands, everybody is my height there or taller).

    But I asked myself, so the rest of the world should be taller or I should be smaller before I am happy with my body and its height????
    (sometimes it helps for me to ridiculize or exaggerate a bit, ha, I think I have finally found my humor 😀

    No, my body is perfectly fine. Even if I compare it to other people. I have small breasts, which means no back problems. I have big feet, so I won’t fall over, but it makes it a little more difficult to buy nice shoes. Then again, some of my girlfriends are small and have to buy from the childrens department or have large breasts and never find a top that fits and I could go on and on.

    Haha, I just realized, I don’t like being tall, bc people call me a Big Softy.
    Or the friendly giant (I am only 1.82 mtrs) compared to my smaller extroverted friends.

    But I would like it if people would call me fiery or passionate instead of softy…Haha, oh well.
    Stating boundaries and being passionate about my life might help change that!

    Hmmm, yes please!

    Time to go to bed now.

    Have a fun day/evening/night!

  266.  #266Ella on January 18, 2011 at 2:58 pm

    Oh pants!

    Just spoke to guy I am seeing and he has taken something.

    I have mentioned me feeling fear bc of his past involving drugs and there have been a few occassions where it has been an issue, but he has said he wanted a fresh start away from all that…

    I had expressed my fears and said I did not want that in my life. And then he said it would not be part of our life bc he had better things in his life now…

    But, there have been a couple of occassions where I have suspected that he has done it and I have felt REALLY uncomfortable (not when he has been with me).

    The signs are completely there. And it is always when he visits a certain place with certain people.

    But the last time when it happened and I said I was feeling worried and weird he said he had not done it.

    Which felt really weird cus it didn’t feel like it added up… it felt untrue.

    But I didn’t want to disagree and tell him he had done it… yet I just couldn’t feel that he was being honest. My gut is literally SCREAMING that he is not being 100% honest and it feels like the lies that accompany the illness of addiction.

    And it feels confusing!

    Like how do we stay in feminine and authentic in the face of dishonesty?… it feels inauthentic, confusing and like being pulled from the bridge.

    I can’t pretend to believe someone about something when I really believe they are lieing to me… and yet I do not want to accuse.

    And I do not feel safe.

    This is NOT what I want in my life.

    And I think I am going to withdraw.

    I need to protect myself.

    And I feel scared.

    And it feels like heavy heart, sinky feeling cus I wish things were different.

    I wish he had been able to heal and transform.

    But not my responsibility.

    I feel sad that someone I care about is doing this to themself…

    But I gotta love myself more.

    I feel SO SAD!

    And so weird that I have picked this situation.

    And I feel I really need to end this. As I can’t lie to myself.

    I want a safe and healthy relationship.

    This isn’t and I can’t pretend.

    Is there any guidence on what to do here… I don’t have toxic men programme.

    I know there is supposed to be some third way, other than breaking up… but not sure if that is applicable here.

    Just know I gotta face the truth of this situation and need to find a way to take care of myself, and right now that feels like distancing myself.

    But I will have to talk to him and tell him something…

    Oh no, this feels awful! I feel really sick!


    Tonight is a horrible night for me. I feel sick.

  267.  #267Lucy on January 18, 2011 at 3:02 pm

    Aww, Ella, 🙁 … (((HUGS))) My face feels full of unshed tears…

  268.  #268Ella on January 18, 2011 at 3:02 pm


    I am there with you.

    Going through feeling a similar thing but we have only been together a couple of months…

    I don’t know the answer, other than take care of yourself! And I guess everything else around you will heal.

    You are just responsible for you, so do the thing that will best take care of YOU only…

    Anyway I can relate to how you feel.



  269.  #269Lucy on January 18, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    I know the feeling you are talking about… the dishonesty… not knowing what to do…. That’s the horrible place I was in near the end of my marriage…. with my ex-h’s “sex addiction.” 🙁

  270.  #270Lucy on January 18, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    I have wondered what I would have done differently if I had had the Rori stuff…. definitely would have been less blaming, less attacking, less accusing — and more just gut-level honest about my authentic feelings…. “I feel so scared… I feel helpless… angry…sad…confused…. I don’t want to feel this way. What can we do?”

  271.  #271Ella on January 18, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    oh god, this feels awful

    I want to cry but just feel sick….

    Feel angry and sad

  272.  #272Lucy on January 18, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    Those last two posts were to you, Ella. <3

  273.  #273Lucy on January 18, 2011 at 3:10 pm

    Ella, do you know Rori’s “drop to the floor” tool? Just fall on the floor and let the feelings flow through you….

  274.  #274Ella on January 18, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    Lucy re 269

    I want to say those things to my person…

    But should I say them now? He is not here and on phone he just sounded out of it!

    Also I am afraid that he will just soothe my feelings and talk me down and so I will lose my strength to walk away…

    And I feel so scared!

    I DON’T want this is my life,

    I want to protect myself.

    I feel so confused.

    I wish he was here to hug me!


  275.  #275Jeannette on January 18, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    Ella, thanks so much, sorry about your upset. I think we will both know what to do when the time is right. Why don’t you tell this guy that you’re feeling unsafe and that he’s not telling the truth? I am feeling sick because I do love Steve but if I stay with him I am taking the risk of not ever having a retirement and taking care of someone else the rest of my life. I don’t mean to sound selfish, please understand for anyone who might read this!

  276.  #276Lucy on January 18, 2011 at 3:15 pm

    Ella, I would feel better expressing my feelings when he is “sober” or whatever you call it. For now, this is an opportunity to take care of yourself, love yourself, and FEEL your feelings…. really let yourself feel them.

  277.  #278Ella on January 18, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    Yes Lucy,

    That is what I thought too.

    I am sitting here with my feelings… feeling them.

    Done ‘drop to the floor’ – may need to do it again.

    Think I might make a hot drink…

    Something funny that occurs to me is when addicts do certain things… maybe they are harming themselves physically… but those around them are being harmed too…

    For me emotionally!

    Luckily I am strong enough to deal with this

    BUT I DON’T want this in my life!

  278.  #279Ella on January 18, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    My fear is around when I do actually communicate with him… cus whenever I have to be strong and do something… like walk away…

    I normally go into masc energy and go all business like in order to get it done.

    I have never attempted approaching this kinda thing in fem energy before!

    I feel TERRIFIED that I will not be able to be strong and protect myself while being a girl.

    Can anyone help me with how I communicate with him… first my feelings and then about how I want to not continue seeing each other?

    At least for now?

    I don’t really know what I am going for here…

    Is it a negotiation? No cus I don’t want to continue how it is and I don’t feel I can trust him…

    I think he will just tell me he won’t do it but then he will!



    Is this a doing or feeling situation?

    How do I protect myself – don’t want to be with an addict!

    Owww, labelling feels uncomfrotable too.

    But I also feel disgusted and angry!


  279.  #280Ella on January 18, 2011 at 3:33 pm




    And feeling sick!

    Feel anger in my stomach.

    Want to hit something!

  280.  #281Lucy on January 18, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    Ella, yes, I was totally in masculine energy when I confronted my ex-h’s issues. Knowing what I know now, I would be feminine if i had it to do over again…. don’t know if the outcome would’ve been any different though….

    You don’t have to label his behavior… just stay in your feelings and express from that place….

    “I feel scared. I don’t want to feel this way. This feels bad. I don’t want to be in a relationship that feels bad.”

  281.  #282Ella on January 18, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    Jeanette re 274

    I do not feel selfishness from what you say at all!

    It doesn’t feel one bit selfish.

    If you were selfish you wouldn’t even be thinking about any of this.

  282.  #283Ella on January 18, 2011 at 3:42 pm


    Thank you – the feeling messages are helping me work it out!

    Do I still ask him what we should do, even though I already know I do not want to carry on?

  283.  #284Ella on January 18, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    How do I express that I feel lied to?

    Without accussing?

  284.  #285Ella on January 18, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    Cus right now I believe my feelings more than I believe him…

  285.  #286Ella on January 18, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    Just trying out some feeling messages here… please feel free to tweak:

    “I feel awful.

    I feel confused… things don’t add up.

    I feel unsafe and I want to feel safe.

    This feels bad and I do not want to be in a relationship that feels bad.”

    Walk away?

  286.  #287JNB on January 18, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    Miss, Ella. I’ve heard Daria use the statement: “I feel untrusting”. This might be an option for you to say you think there is lying, but not that he IS lying.

    Feeling very sad for the troubled Sirens today

  287.  #288Lucy on January 18, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    Ella, your Thought is that you were lied to… but your Feelings are… scared, enraged, sad…..

    If he lied to you, he Knows he lied. You don’t need to tell him that. All you need to tell him is how you feel.

    (This coming from a woman who repeatedly said to her then-husband, “YOU ARE LYING TO ME!!! How dare you look me in the eye and LIE to me???” etc. Not my best moments. :))

  288.  #289Lucy on January 18, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    #285 sounds good, Ella…

    If you are sure that you don’t want him to offer any solutions, then, no, don’t ask him what he thinks or what we can do…

    If you walk away, you are just walking away… the door is not forever shut to him, and he will know what he has to do if he wants you in his life….

  289.  #290Lisi on January 18, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    @216 Lucy —

    Thank you for saying all that.

    I was thinking this morning on my way to work that “needy/clingy guy” does all the things on the list.

    And he comes on so strong that we all know intuitively that he’s not into us, but has a script in his head of a relationship that completes him, and we’re just a warm body he can plug into his script.

    And, because we sense this — we all basically do the same thing — we push the “escape” button on that relationship and get away from him as fast as possible.

    Also, I think getting an idea like “The List” in your head sets you up to be disappointed in the guys you date, sending you into your “not good enough” space and thereby pushing them away.

    One of the things I’m learning about men as I’m CD-ing is that they move slowly at the emotional level. They call. They don’t call. They call again. And, when I’m busy CD-ing, I barely notice.

    But, when they call again and I’m busy, but happy to hear from them — in increases their interest.

    If I went to the bruised ego, wounded woman space and wanted to know why they’d gone away — I’d never get to the increased interest phase….

  290.  #291Ella on January 18, 2011 at 4:18 pm


    Right now I don’t want to ask for solutions. We have been here before a couple of times very recently.

    And the solutions offered have not come to fruition.

    I feel too angry right now.

    I just want to walk away for now.

    Express and walk away.

  291.  #292Lucy on January 18, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    “And the solutions offered have not come to fruition.”

    Yes, I know what that’s like. 🙁

    I feel proud of you, Ella. It took me years to walk away… It would have been better for me and my kids if I had walked away sooner… but I have forgiven myself and trust that I did the best I could at the time and that God will honor that….

    Rori says that saying NO to what we don’t want gets us closer to what we DO want… and I believe that!

  292.  #293Andi on January 18, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    @ 289 Lisi

    “that “needy/clingy guy” does all the things on the list.


    And he comes on so strong that we all know intuitively that he’s not into us, but has a script in his head of a relationship that completes him, and we’re just a warm body he can plug into his script.”


    oh my!!! that i so true! :0

    so true…

  293.  #294Ella on January 18, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    It feels awful.

    In my stomach… like a massive knot.

    really tight, icky feeling!


    I feel so angry… maybe at me… why did I put myself back here?

    And sad 🙁

  294.  #295Ella on January 18, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    “And he comes on so strong that we all know intuitively that he’s not into us, but has a script in his head of a relationship that completes him, and we’re just a warm body he can plug into his script.”

    Yes… know this one too…

    This is always how I feel when a man comes on full on from beginning.

    I have this question with Mr Barman too.

  295.  #296Andi on January 18, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    Ella….hugs for you…:(

  296.  #297Ella on January 18, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    Thanks Andi! xoxox

  297.  #298Andi on January 18, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    “And he comes on so strong that we all know intuitively that he’s not into us, but has a script in his head of a relationship that completes him, and we’re just a warm body he can plug into his script.”

    oh man..reflecting…hurts…

    i really have been naive/limited in my experience with men 🙁 at least now i can see this…

    i thought when they came on strong they meant it…but not always so. probably not usually so.

  298.  #299Andi on January 18, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    @ Lucy 272

    Hi, you mentioned Rori’s “drop to the floor” tool…do you know where I can read/learn about that and the other tools (feeling). Thanks…

  299.  #300Ella on January 18, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    “This feels bad and I don’t want to feel this, and then walk away, or you can say I don’t want to do this right now”

    This fits for me right now!

    I may use these.

  300.  #301LonePlum on January 18, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    Ella 265

    Re Mr Barman:

    “I realize my feelings are only my feelings and they might not add up to your truth. But I have to take care of my safety and I am going to follow my feelings here. I feel betrayed.
    I don’t want illegal substances in my life.
    I don’t want to judge your choices, I am just saying I feel bad right now and I want to honor my feelings.
    I don’t want to stay in a relationship where I feel bad.”


  301.  #302Lisi on January 18, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    @297 Andi —

    Most of us have an intuitive “ick” feeling to a guy who does this.

    You may have had some guys who came on strong because they REALLY WERE into you.

    However, Hot New Age Guy, who recently cooked me dinner, was ready to commit to having past lives together and being lifelong connected at our first meeting. And, when I sat in the rocking chair, he sat on the couch and repeatedly patted it and asked me to sit next to him.

    I had a very strong “ick” feeling. I chose never to see him again.

    That’s usually how you respond to that guy.

  302.  #303Lisi on January 18, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    @300 Lone Plum

    betrayed isn’t a feeling. It’s a judgement of what you think he did.

    Deeply disappointed, scared/unsafe — those are feelings.

  303.  #304Lisi on January 18, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    @274 Jeannette —

    I’d like to see you let go of the guilt for getting your own needs met.

    Isn’t this the trouble most of us have in relationships — that we can’t receive? We go around trying to martyr ourselves, acting like our needs don’t need to be met, and wear ourselves out, letting others walk on us in the process.

    So — I think it’s healthy that you’re thinking about what Steve can provide you. And it would be unhealthy to stay with him because HE needs YOU.

    I’m considering this with my ex right now. He’s underemployed. He has no real training, and has never had a good job. I’m highly educated, but work part-time and home school a child.

    Can he provide for me? Do I want to limit my life to the size he can provide? Is he worth that?

    I think it’s healthy I’m asking these questions. I don’t have an answer. I’m allowing it to fall out as it does…..

  304.  #305Lucy on January 18, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    Andi, I’m not sure where to find Rori’s drop to the floor and other tools. Daria would probably either know where to find them or be able to describe them better for you. I will summon Genie Daria for you….

    Daria Daria Daria… Andi is wondering about drop to the floor and other tools… If you are not too busy, do you want to help her?

  305.  #306Deb on January 18, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    Wow, Ella, life has given you a big test… I’m so sorry you have to deal with this 🙁

    Some ideas:
    I feel extremely disappointed that you have chosen drugs over me. I have expressed that I will not tolerate this behavior in my life and I stand by that statement. Thank you for letting me know now where I stand, before this relationship progressed any further. Goodbye.

    And then hang up or walk away. No explaining, no asking what he thinks this time. If he tries to interrupt your speech and explain or convince you otherwise you say “I don’t even want to hear it!” He knows.

    I’m rooting for you and learning from your strength. Lord I wish I had known to do this once-upon-a-time in college when I found out my boyfriend had a fiance back home…

  306.  #307Deb on January 18, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    I also would not take his calls, etc. for awhile. Don’t open or read anything he sends. He would basically have to show up in your driveway crying before you talk to him.

  307.  #308Jeannette on January 18, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    Lisi and Ella, I count the bad and the good. Steve is really good when it comes to kindness, respect, patience, sweetness. He’s so good in many ways. There are sooo many guys who don’t show that sort of respect. But then, he’s not very productive at all. Why does it all have to be so complicated? I wish things could just fall into place just once!

  308.  #309Daria on January 18, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    Genie Daria is Feelin pooped. Someone else can take it away… Or ask lata

  309.  #310Andi on January 18, 2011 at 6:49 pm

    @ Lucy, thank you…I will keep hunting for the tools. I bet I can google it with Rori’s name and it will come up somewhere 🙂

    @ Lisi…

    You make a good point. Sometimes I need to be more aware of my ick sensor though! Some icks are definite and some are more subtle

  310.  #311Femininewoman on January 18, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    Re 279 I think it is Gay Hendricks who teaches that anger is in the back of your neck and shoulders. Fear shows up in the stomach.

  311.  #312Darling Ella on January 18, 2011 at 7:29 pm

    My thoughts are with you Ella…I feel you pain…I trust though you will find your way out of this painful confusion…

    Warm hugs,

  312.  #313Nancy on January 18, 2011 at 7:58 pm

    Hmmmmn. I see that posting The List without the larger context of the book has created some controversy. It’s felt fun to read through these! I feel excited about the dialog. I really do think that just looking at the 7 items alone, you don’t get the real picture. The book is full of concepts and stories of real happily married couples helpful to the woman who wants to date and end up married and just about dating in general. So I would just encourage you to read it before you decide it’s bunk based on the itty bitty excerpt I posted. There is much more to it.

    @229 SLV says: “But it’s always good to know if marriage is indeed on the table or if men are regarding us as merely a pre-dinner “snack.””

    I love the way you put that, SLV! Amen!

    Wow, it’s hard to write because thinking about everyone’s posts, I’m having all these realizations about my past relationships and how they relate to the list. Like,

    @Lisi 194 and Lucy 216 My ex-husband did everything on the list and I waited 1.5 yrs before marrying him. Then in the first year being married, I discovered he was a sexual addict. I was devastated! And I’m a social worker. If it had been substance abuse, DV or any other number of critical flaws I would have seen it… but this was something I was totally unaware of at the time and easy for him to hide. So, even after 1.5 years there was no guarantee for me. I don’t know what the answer to that one is. Talk to every family member you can and ask pointed questions? I always run a background check on anyone I’m getting serious with now, but that won’t tell you they’re a serial cheater. I did have one man I dated briefly tell me he was a serial cheater. Not in so many words, but he told me. My ex-husband hid everything, even when I disclosed things about myself and my past. There is always risk involved when you marry and I understand you wanting to take your time.

    @Lucy 216 For what it’s worth, all of the women in the book were either attracted from the beginning or became attracted to their husbands before they married.

    233 SS says, “And frankly if I’m not feeling this level of pursuit right off the bat, then maybe I do need to tell the guy no and move on. I’ve spent way too much time trying to turn Mr. Lukewarm into Prince Charming.”

    I couldn’t have said it better myself! I have spent many years of my life trying to turn him into PC. It just doesn’t work. My favorite line from this book is “Why am I so intent on marrying a man who isn’t excited about marrying me?” That’s my favorite thing about the list. It has taught me the signs of strong interest. I feel like life is so much easier now. And after I told my recent guy of 2.5 yrs I was going to start dating again, having read the book, I immediately met a man who did the things on the list. It’s so great to be watching what he does and getting a really good picture of what that looks like. I love it.

    I can see so clearly now that Mr. Carrot (guy of 2.5 yrs) did everything on the list up to item 5 (well, 5.5 actually) he called me everyday… for 2.5 years. But he never wanted to spend all his free time with me. He walled us off at weekends. Every single weekend, for 2.5 yrs. But he wouldn’t move it any further. Not having the book, I didn’t know what that meant. At first, him calling every day, multiple times and seeing me every weekend felt pretty great. But I never would have seen that those things were totally connected with him never bringing up us getting married in any real way without the book.

    I dunno. I like the book a lot. It’s made things very clear to me, both the black and white and all the nuances in between. And, thinking more about the book today, I realized that although I love Mr. Carrot with all my heart and soul, our relationship has not been very romantic at all. We had some romantic times together, but the overall story of the relationship has been kinda sad. I could use a “we just knew” relationship!

  313.  #314PrairieGirl on January 18, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    I don’t remember which post # asked, but I do know that “drop to the floor” was in Modern Siren… I don’t know which others as well…

    Ella my heart goes out to you… this SUCKS… It does sound like you are listening to your “gut”…

    Someone posted on one of these blog comments about the study by the University of London I’ll see if I can find it… about how having romantic feelings for someone actually stops our brains from assessing them correctly… I’ll find it..

    Prairie Girl

  314.  #315PrairieGirl on January 18, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    Here is is…

    *******How Love Blinds You
    Ever looked back on a past relationship and wondered “Wow, how did I NOT see those red flags?”
    Well, cut yourself a little slack because there may actually be a biological force in play as well as your emotions.

    Scientists at University College London reported in the journal NeuroImage that romantic love actually suppresses the brain waves associated with critical social assessment of other people and negative emotions.
    In other words, once you get close to a person (i.e. you’re falling hook, line and sinker) your brain has a reduced need to assess their character and to harbor negative emotions towards them.
    Yup…you read that correctly. You can be literally blinded by love.
    “The suppression of neural activity in areas involving critical thinking and judgment suggests that love is not only blind, but also stupid,”
    says Dr. Karin Anderson, Associate Professor of Psychology and Counselor Education, Concordia University Chicago and author of It Just Hasn’t Happened Yet (Clifton Hills Press, 2010).
    “This biological reality compounded by strong societal pressure to couple may lead us to forge romantic partnerships that lack requisite qualities of compatibility in lifestyle and goals.” ******

  315.  #316Nancy on January 18, 2011 at 8:21 pm


    I feel so sorry for your situation. I don’t have much to add to the great advice everyone’s given here. I’ve been there too. Addiction can be so heartbreaking. I hope you’re feeling stronger reading all the great words here and I wish I could give you a real hug.


  316.  #317Nancy on January 18, 2011 at 8:22 pm

    @PG 314

    Thank you for posting that! I was just thinking about that phenomenon a couple of days ago. I’m gonna read it!

  317.  #318Nancy on January 18, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    Oh, I thought it was longer, lol. I love the line, “The suppression of neural activity in areas involving critical thinking and judgment suggests that love is not only blind, but also stupid.” I’m still laughing.

  318.  #319Nancy on January 18, 2011 at 8:35 pm

    @Lisi and SLV and Jacqueline,

    I’ve gotten a lot of responses to my CL ad. I have a date set up with the imaging tech this wknd. I woke up this morning, after having read Jacqueline’s post 151 and after SLV say that CL is sleazy and felt scared. How sleazy is it? Is it like the slums of online dating? Do I have to worry that men I might meet from CL are going to show up and tell me about their fetishes and want me to pee on them??? Do normal seeming guys with dark sexual secrets haunt CL? LOL
    Tell me more, please. I need information!

  319.  #320SummerBaby on January 18, 2011 at 8:37 pm

    had a sob fest tonight as my youngest fledged. Mr. Gold knew this was happening and texted to see how I was doing. I was honest about what I was feeling and he was so supportive. Is this what a healthy relationship feels like?

    I felt truly soothed by his attention while experiencing my flood of emotions at my child leaving home. Through the timing of his actions, I feel safe, cherished, cared about, and valued.
    I am so unused to this. I will take deep breaths and imagine myself welcoming, receiving.

    @Marina… yay belly dance! I do my lessons via video as there are no classes near me any longer.

  320.  #321T-Girl on January 18, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    Why is it that when I get home from a wonderful evening with a new CD who really likes me and I do feel a connection, I think about the one that I really like that I feel is slipping away??

    I feel depressed
    I feel sad
    I feel confused
    I feel like what did I do wrong – things were going so great in the beginning
    I feel like I want to cry
    I feel like I need to give the new guy a chance but can’t get past the sadness and confusion

    Thanks for letting me vent…

  321.  #322Dorothea on January 18, 2011 at 8:41 pm

    Nancy, 318….I have heard other people also say it is sleazy…but I have only met really nice cool people off of there. i never got romantic with any of them after we met, but i am still friends with a couple of them, and we go to the movies and some of them are in local bands so i go to their shows.

  322.  #323Nancy on January 18, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    @Summerbaby 319

    Summerbaby! I feel so happy that he was there for you that way. That is really exciting! I was hoping he would support you.

    And I’m sorry for your tears.

  323.  #325Nancy on January 18, 2011 at 8:47 pm

    Thanks, Dorthea. I feel a little better. I was afraid maybe I had set myself up for some nasty surprises. The guy I’m meeting Sat. just called to say hi. He sounds great.

  324.  #326Nancy on January 18, 2011 at 8:49 pm


    How careful do I need to be on there. Is it enough to follow the usual online dating safety precautions?

  325.  #327Jacqueline on January 18, 2011 at 8:52 pm

    Hiya Nancy – it is not sleazy!! lol…there are some kinky people in the “kinky” sections….and I checked those out too. I have LIVED with a guy I met from there for a year and a half now…and he’s a very decent guy. Craigslist is moe of a community vibe thing in a way, and a lot more in your face this is what I’m looking for and I aint hiding behind no eharmony personality quiz to find it. But I think that’s a good thing….

    and really, I did read probably 150 ads this weekend and found a dozen seemingly real men over 50 looking for real women –

    I hope your date goes great! and you’ve got a level head so you know, get his name, tell a friend where you’re meeting, tell him you have to call her in 2 hours….and enjoy.

    CL is definitely a numbers game – and remember – not much posted about this lately but cd’s are free therapy for US -they are for us to learn, practice, be open, lean back, use the tools, etc.

    Hope all goes well –

    and that everyone’s having a good day/night!!


  326.  #328Jilly on January 18, 2011 at 8:58 pm

    Ella…i’m also giving you hugs…it seemed like you were happy when you were with Mr.barman but when you weren’t you were wondering about it…just what i’ve noticed

    Lucy..you’re words have really felt good to me tonight..and thanks for the reminder of judgements vs. feelings..

    I’m feeling sad tonight and don’t know why
    chest is tight..really tight

    surferguy texted me tonight asking if I was home from my trip…I was thinking I’d hear from him either last night or tonight..yay…anyway he asked if I wanted to get together this weekend it will be our 3rd date…and he after texted asking about my trip and chatting for a bit and asking if I want to do something this weekend and I said yes…

    HIM: let’s plan something to do this weekend

    ME: k…hmmm…it would feel fun to have 3 options to pick from 🙂 lol (I was not falling into the “trap”)

    HIM: ok…i’ll have to think of some things…let’s talk tomorrow..I’m watching a movie with my girls (he has two girls)

    I am feeling pretty happy with my feeling messages these days..i’m not always on but I actually like expressing myself that way…texting definitely has helped me learn how.

    Jeannette..my heart goes out to you too…that’s a hard situation to be in

    Darling Ella…how are you? Are things feeling better for you?

  327.  #329Nancy on January 18, 2011 at 8:59 pm

    Phew, thanks Jacqueline. Between your post last night, what SLV said and the fact that my mother for some reason commented that most men on there are looking for prostitutes… what is she pimping herself out these days?… my brain was set on orange alert when I woke up this morning… “OMG, what have I done?” LOL

  328.  #330Nancy on January 18, 2011 at 9:02 pm

    Thanks, LP.

    My question about this article is… at what point are we falling hook, line and sinker? I would venture to guess that for me… it’s when I fall hook, line and sinker into BED with him!

  329.  #331Jacqueline on January 18, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    Hi again! just caught up speed read style – and yeah, Andi – my guy now is like that – adores me….but he’s meek and mild and I came off of rich, high powered, hard driven testosterone in control of his world and all in it but me….which was a huge rush. I miss it. And he adored me too – well, actually that Jenny McCarthy book sure is good – she points out that when we do something, say act like we want sex asap…and the man loves us for it, he’s not really loving us for us if we’re acting….and has a chapter on authenticity.

    For me, adored is overrated and kind of wimpy – now I rocked his world and was his one shot chance at happiness? that I loved!!! You’ll have to read my nefarious and controversial story one day…

    Plus I do have some standards for me, too – but hey! I’m a learning that 1/4″ of roots does not mean it’s time to break out the bottle. har….

    I’m committment phobic and adrenaline addicted and not looking for JUST one, much less the ONE tho – so I’m not standard for the blog.

    But I still get a lot out of it, and love it – I call it the never ending story, and I miss so many people from last summer…

    and oh, yeah, last we heard Lizzie of all of us had found love?!! gotta write her and see how it’s going…

    anyway, I wanna look like Denise Austin – no actually, Scarlett Johannason….

    but then hey, I might actually have to blow dry my hair!!! and all I do is comb it when it’s wet –

    I’m laughing at myself here – I’m in an in between place and we’ll have to see where I land.

    I appreciate all men!! all kinds of men!! and I tend to pendulum swing with every break up….so for now,

    Oh, yeah, SLV…umm, yeah, I think he’s got my back -but an unlisted qualification for my general hormonal health was definitely someone who did not need -ever!!! – Cialis. So I ended up 6 years younger than me, which is way more fun than 9 years older!

    Lucky me….

    everyone take care have sweet dreams and Nancy!!

    put some socks on to get rid of those cold feet???

    Can’t wait to hear how fab it was!


  330.  #332Jilly on January 18, 2011 at 9:12 pm

    oh hell…pipeliner guy just texted…hey babygirl just got home from work finally…

    AND….sad feeling GONE
    chest tightness GONE

    he’s so consistent that when he’s off my mind goes into the past of what’s happened when guys don’t call when I think they will… like…yep..it was too good to be true..

    i feel sad about that
    I feel vulnerable

    I’m still healing…I can see myself feeling anxious and sad from the thoughts i’m thinking kind of obsessively and all I can do is get right back into my feelings right? that’s how I heal this?

  331.  #333Jacqueline on January 18, 2011 at 9:16 pm

    ACk…lost my big long post…ah well…

    Nancy – I was dilly dallying in the kinkier sections and STILL no one expected or thought me to be a prostitute!

    Can’t wait to hear how great it all was…..


    Andi – I am adored now and find it kind of boring – but I am with Mr. low keyed and I was with Mr. Rich, charismatic, tempermental and chaotic – I miss it.

    And I liked I rocked his world and was his one shot chance at happiness better….

    but find what Jenny McCarthy says about when the love us cuz we do something to make em love us it’s not as good as when they love the authentic us….

    it’s just I’m not sure which was the authentic me – Crazy Ex Girlfriend Miranda Lambert style?? or Jackson Browne mellow me??

    but hey! I never intended to keep just one –

    so we’ll see where my sweet but non alpha guy goes in the next few months, huh?

    And lol, I’ll try to stay away from the bottle when I only have 1/4″ of roots showing. heee…

    and SLV – ummm, well, I like Performance! in the sense that a definite was that no way was I gonna end up with someone who would ask me should I take a Cialis?? o.m.g…..!!!!! so I went with 6 years younger.

    But yeah, having someone who has your back is really what is is ALL about, huh?

    Night everyone and take care….


  332.  #334Dorothea on January 18, 2011 at 9:18 pm

    yes absolutely take all the online dating precautions. tell someone who cares about you who you’re meeting and where. have them check in on you mid-date and all that jazz.

  333.  #335Jacqueline on January 18, 2011 at 9:20 pm

    Jilly – I totally get that. I have a bad habit of expecting the worst…..and so I go to it’s all new and no preconceived ideas at best – and maybe, a wait and see approach and if I’m in a really great spot – a I’m sure he’s great and will be consistent and nice and all that….

    Be sure and keep cd’ing, hobbying, or whatever keeps you from obsessing and yeah – check in your gut with how YOU feel, which right now sounds good.


  334.  #336Jacqueline on January 18, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    Lucy – I was so sad when you said no man was there for you – was that NVs??? hope so cuz I so don’t believe that. I think an even better guy will show up as soon as you let WH be a great memory and look in the faces in front of you….well, when the snow melts and there are some, you know? And I think we’ve – you’ve made great progress in defining what you do want – even right down to the musician part. He IS there, He IS!!!!!



  335.  #337Brenda on January 18, 2011 at 9:33 pm


    RE: #264 – You said, “Sirens, I am still engaged to Steve but I worry a lot. A lot about his health….a lot about money.. I think my grown kids do too. They don’t ask me about him generally when they call. I feel like their avoiding telling me….”mom, what does he REALLY have to offer?” I am a more mature woman and I need financial stability more now than ever….I don’t want to abandon him. He’s sick, I would think my kids would understand that.”

    My exhusband, Kenny, is in prison, and he has been since I met him in 2000. I was married to him from 2003 – 2006. The situation was comparable. What did he really have to offer? I supported him; no sex; no companionship, except once a week visits that I had to spend a whole day traveling 3 hrs each way and all the gas, wear & tear, occasional hotels.

    Maybe I’ve gotten colder, but, even tho we’re still friends and I love him, part of me feels like I wasted some of my life. He needs love, too. Yeah, he does. But am I called to sacrifice my life for his?

    It’s a tuff call.

  336.  #338Brenda on January 18, 2011 at 9:49 pm


    RE: #283 – You asked, “How do I express that I feel lied to?

    Without accusing?”

    I learned this from a U.S. attorney, who was highly intelligent:

    Are you taking drugs?


    You’re not taking drugs?


    So, you’re telling me you’re not taking drugs?

    When you ask it, the trick is to be looking straight into his eyes. He will know you don’t believe him, and he may even come out with the truth. But you will SEE the truth in his eyes.

  337.  #339Brenda on January 18, 2011 at 10:02 pm


    RE: #285 – Feeling messages for not trusting, etc:

    From Daria:
    I feel confused and mistrustful.

    I feel mistrustful… And angry.

    From Shannon:
    This feels terrible. I feel angry. I don’t want to play games.

    I feel bad. It feels difficult to trust you right now. I feel resistant. What do you think?

  338.  #340Laughing Goddess on January 18, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    Oh my. I feel so horrible. I just started dog obedience class, today is the second week. I feel sooooo horrible.

    My dog wouldn’t sit right away and the trainer grabbed hi leash and was super rough with him and he freaked out and made a big scene.

    I feel so pissed and shaky. He never acts like that at home.

    Then, for the rest of the class he was totally shut down and shaking. He was totally shut down. I couldn’t get him to do anything. He just laid on the floor and shook.

    I felt horrible seeing that.

    I feel scared he will always be shut down in class. I feel pissed that they were so rough with him. I feel worried. I feel sad. I feel embarrassed.

  339.  #341archerie on January 18, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    Ella ,

    Sorry to hear your news.

    I cared for someone who drank too much ,
    and I reminded myself that no one is free to truly relate to me if their primary relationship is with a substance.

    You have expressed concerns here before about his drug usage,
    and I say go on and really feel your feelings and listen to your intuition and if it feels bad for you , it IS bad.

    I mean that . You should be in the dazzling lovey phase of wonder and joy early in your relationship,
    not feeling fear and sick and horrible feelings.
    If all you are feeling is sick and fearful, please listen to those feelings and love them for being your radar.

    AND go online and CD , right now this minute as soon as you can write a profile !!! It will tell your unconscious mind you are not accepting negativity and addictions in your life .

    I love Brendas lie questions.
    I also would suggest maybe

    “Is there anything you would like to say about you and drugs (weed, speed, coke etc..fill in ..) ?”
    Watch closely for reaction.
    if he glosses over , admits a small relapse ..etc..you will know that is likely an addiction ongoing.

    If he honestly sits and HE INITIATES truthful discussion about your concerns and feelings around drug usage in a mature way discussing his old problem and what he did to overcome it etc..then maybe you guessed wrong.( I dont think so , those feelings always know the lie of the land . )

    So if he tries glib reassurances , the artful dodger etc…have your speech ready , excellent suggestions by Lone Plum and others noted.

    I fear you may have to leave this man .

    “I feel sick and afraid. (FEELINGS)
    I feel attached to you and i care for you .

    I am seeing things happening that look like you are currently using . (OBSERVATION)

    I dont want to be in relationship with any man who uses drugs . I dont want my life tied up in other peoples addictions. (BOUNDARIES)

    What do you think? ”

    If he is lying about currently using , the last” what do you think” may just elicit denials and white washing.

    I feel sorry for you
    i feel grateful you have lots of support here.

  340.  #342Jilly on January 18, 2011 at 10:25 pm

    LG…that feels horrible to read 🙁 i feel sad about that…what about positive reinforcement classes?…my sister’s a dolphin trainer and they only use positive reinforcement

    Jacqueline…thanks!!..how long have you been with Mr. Lowkey?
    I feel centered for the most part. pipeliner just called and said if he wasn’t able to call me on his phone he would have used one of the guys he works with phone and he didn’t want me to feel ignored ….WOW…he knows exactly what to say…but in a good feeling sincere way not a “red flag” kinda way

    I like that…he would have found a way to call me…(big happy sigh)

  341.  #343Senior Lady Vibe on January 18, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    318: Nancy says:
    ” Do normal seeming guys with dark sexual secrets haunt CL? LOL
    Tell me more, please. I need information! …”

    I don’t know but Brenda can probably tell you. She called Cl a “cyberwhorehouse.”

    I don’t know, I’m just scouting ads in five or six major cities, kinda sorta in my area. But I could really choose any city.

    It seems to me the answer is no and yes.

    No, the guys you don’t want don’t seem “normal” in the first place, and yes some have dark sexual secrets but since they usually say what they are… voila…skip them.

    I need to hear more personal stories.

    Funny, I was going to post a few “bad stuff” ads, when I looked to night most weren’t so bad. I notice one thing that seems strange I didnt notice before most of the c*ck shots are the 30-yr olds.

    When I searched and input 50 i got a much nicer selection!!! I was just pulling up M4W, reading the subject lines, shaking my head and going onto the next city.

    Putting in 50 works really well. That’s your group, right. I’ve found some decent guys in all cities!!

    What have you found in your city? What search parameters/tags/keywords do you use?

    But… there are still…

    I Love Masturbating for Older 58+ Woman – 48 (Peabody)


  342.  #344Brenda on January 18, 2011 at 10:27 pm

    Here’s an update in my world…

    Ryan is history. There is now a period on the end of the sentence. It’s done.

    Jim from the blog is emailing me, and I enjoy it. 🙂

    “Harvey” is a new CD from craigslistland. So far we have exchanged emails, texts, and photos.

    Kenny and I are communicating much better, thanks to feeling messages. February 13th will mark the 11th anniversary of when we met. He’s my friend, and that’s all.

  343.  #345Senior Lady Vibe on January 18, 2011 at 10:28 pm

    @318 Nancy

    And horrors…this disturbed me…

    Seeking Submissive Girls! (GTA)


  344.  #346Brenda on January 18, 2011 at 10:32 pm


    RE: #338 – Get your dog out of that class! Oooh, that makes me pissed! It’s the trainer, NOT your dog!

    I was in obedience class once and a trainer handled my dog like that, even making an under-the-breath comment about him needing his choker chain broken off his neck.

    My dog was typically well-behaved. She terrified him. Later I found out she was a puppy mill owner and had abused her puppies, like letting them be born on bare concrete in an open garage in the dead cold of winter.

    Spare your dog! Find a reputable trainer!

  345.  #347Brenda on January 18, 2011 at 10:35 pm


    A dog is all about pleasing his/her person. I treat my dogs with respect and love. They are totally responsive to voice commands, because they trust momma and know she’s never going to do anything to hurt them. They hang on my every appearance and every word.

    Dogs can be well taught with gentleness.

  346.  #348Senior Lady Vibe on January 18, 2011 at 10:37 pm

    @326: Jacqueline says:
    “…Craigslist is moe of a community vibe thing in a way, and a lot more in your face this is what I’m looking for and I aint hiding behind no eharmony personality quiz to find it. But I think that’s a good thing….
    and really, I did read probably 150 ads this weekend and found a dozen seemingly real men over 50 looking for real women -..”

    I think you are right Jacqueline, in spite of some awful ads I’ve seen I really have a good feeling about CL. I noticed my city is pretty awful but I just looked at D.C. which I’d not looked at for a week or so and most people looked pretty good.

    One thing, some ads are awful, but they come right out and say what they are seeking as opposed to online dating sites where the awful ones might hide behind nicey-nice profiles. Jacqueline, what do you think about that? Am I close to the truth?

    And the older bunch over 50 seem way more acceptable and interesting! Some over 60 for me too…not too many. Don’t know why I was not filtering….I was looking more for ad copy I guess..

    Thanks, Jacqueline!!!


  347.  #349Senior Lady Vibe on January 18, 2011 at 10:46 pm

    338: Laughing Goddess says:
    “Then, for the rest of the class he was totally shut down and shaking. He was totally shut down. I couldn’t get him to do anything. He just laid on the floor and shook. ”

    If my animal was shaking, I’d be looking for someone else. Just my opinion.


  348.  #350Nancy on January 18, 2011 at 11:09 pm

    @LG 338

    Oh, LG, I’m so sorry and sad. Yes, find a different class. Don’t risk that happening again. Yuck! Give your dog a nice treat and pat from me.

    I was just playing with my rescue mini doxie. She has such PTSD. I got her excited about playing with a tiny stuffed pig and all of the sudden she cowered down, for no apparent reason. I went to comfort her and she just peed all over, sitting right there. Poor little girl. Someone really did nasty things to her. I feel so angry when I think of them. I’d like to give them a piece of my… fist to the side of their head, it makes me so mad.

  349.  #351Leo on January 18, 2011 at 11:10 pm

    Hi Ladies,

    I feel so great today. Although i had a little argument with my man last night.
    He was upset and felt sad. Which he told me just like that! First he did kinda accuse me but then he spoke his feelings. I just thought this was awesome. We got it settled and everything was fine then.

    Oh and… haha. Later on he was actually kinda mad 😉 He called me at night just at 00:01am to congratulate me for my birthday….and he wasnt the first to do so 😀
    For my best friend (from my home town where I used to live) called me at 11.45p.m. and said we will talk now till its midnight so she
    s the first 😀
    I felt so special, which I am 😉

    And yesterday…another great thing happened. My counsellor in university told me I may drop two classes if I want to. Which means I have more time to study for my other two (more important exams).
    I feel so happy that finally those things work out for me in university. They havent in the past year which was very stressful.

    Thanks to the world 🙂


  350.  #352Nancy on January 18, 2011 at 11:15 pm

    Hi SLV,

    I haven’t looked at any M4W ads. I just leapt on there an posted one. Lots and lots of responses. 80 or so? And maybe 10 I’m somewhat interested in and 2 very interested in.
    One asked for my number and I have a date this weekend with him. And a great voice (and so the imprinting begins LOL). Can you tell I feel a little excited?
    What I did was post a photo of myself that’s a really nice one, but doesn’t really show me up close. I’m walking down the beach in a flowy red dress. They all write to ask if it’s really me. They send a pic usually and then I send one back with a bit more about me. Seems to work well so far.

  351.  #353Brenda on January 18, 2011 at 11:15 pm


    RE: #346 – True, the posts in CL are more direct. I am finding that if I look in more rural areas the men seem more sincere. When I look in Philadelphia posts, there are so many that men seem to take me for granted when I respond.

    My new CD, “Harvey”, is from a rural area about 2 hrs from me and he seems very decent and sincerely looking for a good woman, not just sex.

  352.  #354Nancy on January 18, 2011 at 11:15 pm

    I’ve got to get some sleep. G’night Siren Island.

  353.  #355Senior Lady Vibe on January 18, 2011 at 11:21 pm

    @Brenda @Nancy

    You both seem to have broken the code.

    Nancy are you posting in the W4M section? Is your pic one you posted on POF? If it’s the long shot, it looks great. Good idea, a real pic but somewhat “private.” You are very good at this.

    Yes, it’s exciting!!!


  354.  #356Senior Lady Vibe on January 18, 2011 at 11:23 pm


    Your recent CL guy sounds good for you. I hope you have some fun dates.


    going to bed now…

  355.  #357Brenda on January 18, 2011 at 11:43 pm


    Thanks! I don’t put much stock in CL. I’ve used it a lot. But maybe it’s different region by region.

  356.  #358Laughing Goddess on January 19, 2011 at 12:07 am

    I’m feeling better about the dog situation. I’m going to speak with the main teacher tomorrow. It was an assistant who did the rough behavior. I have a script of (hopefully) non-violent communication to let her know that I do not want anyone other than me handling my dog in class and also let her know that the amount of force used was completely inappropriate and counter-productive.

    He’s a really good dog and the only reason we are taking that class is because I thought it would be a fun adventure for us. I also want to do agility training with him and he has to take the obedience class first. But ya, I trained him with consistent boundaries and positive reinforcement and he does great.

    I’m actually looking forward to communicating my boundaries.

    And little guy is fine. He seemed better as soon as we left class except for when I tried to practice what we learned and he started to shut down a little bit.

    Oh man, I’m feeling angry again just thinking about it.

    Ugh! All I can say is that will never happen again.

  357.  #359Aradea on January 19, 2011 at 12:34 am

    Thank you Rori! I so needed this post today, as I am so confused, and feeling torn with some of my CDs.

    And besides, I WANT several months to really discover what I need to about myself, relationships, my choices in men, dating….

    And I am seeing some need to deal a lot with feminine energy, practicing that, and some old “Daddy issues” that seem to be related.

    But I don’t want to put off the right man, I just don’t know how I can tell who is, and I keep thinking I’ll just know.

    My 2nd CD just went exclusive to me. I was honest that I’m still dating, and he said it’s ok, he knows, no pressure, just doesn’t want to waste time with anyone else.

    And I feel guilty, since I feel nowhere NEAR making a choice like that just now. I INTEND not to, as I have some travel plans with another CD to hit the French Riviera in 6 months! (plus a few adventures between!- YUM)
    Siens, weigh in? What do y’all think?

  358.  #360Brenda on January 19, 2011 at 12:36 am


    Good for you!

    I love dogs so much. They have heart qualities in them as few people possess: trustworthiness, loyalty, unconditional love and acceptance, trust, joy!

    It’s no coincidence that “dog” is “God” spelled backward! 😆

  359.  #361Aradea on January 19, 2011 at 1:59 am

    I am tired
    i feel like i cant find my feelings
    DD still baffles me.
    I don’t have a lot of feelings when I’m with him
    I feel protective of me
    I feel scared when a man is getting sexual/physical with me, that he is trying to own me
    Then I clam up. I want to escape and figure it out
    but I don’t know how.
    TRIGGER here. But I don’t understand what it is exactly yet.
    They all want to touch me. I dress conservatively, though not in baggy pants, or whatever. I like to feel pretty.

    I want to be touched, affectionate…
    but only after I feel trust and intimacy.
    I kiss at first when I’m curious, to test my attraction. Later kisses become more intimate.
    I feel caged and afraid when a man wants to touch all over my body so soon.

    I don’t feel it’s all about sex (for them), but it’s some about sex.
    I think I want them to wait so I can be sure it’s not really about the sex, but about ME.

    Men are wired differently? I’ve read they want sex first in order to feel intimacy. Where women want intimacy first , then they feel sexual attraction.

    How can I use feeling messages to express this to DD?

    And I see a boundary/trigger I need to explore.

  360.  #362Aradea on January 19, 2011 at 2:12 am

    I feel guilty, as if I have given a wrong impression. and I don’t want them to touch me yet, so why do they think I might? I feel like “what did I do to make u think I want your hands groping all over me on a second date?” I push them away, but they keep trying.
    Am I abnormal? Do lots of women want to have some serious make-outs on a second date? I know I don’t, and I do tell them I want to take things slowly. That does seem to re-engage their brains.
    I don’t like feeling guilty.
    I don’t like feeling bad
    I feel bad when a man wants to ‘paw’ all over me before I feel I know anything about him, or he about me.
    I don’t know what to say.
    I don’t know why this happens.
    I am not a sex toy, or an object
    I don’t like it he feels he can assume familiarity I don’t feel.
    I don’t want to reject him or judge him.
    I want to feel good.
    I want to feel precious, and cared for.
    When I feel good, precious, secure, I like to touch…. A LOT!
    I don’t want false afftection.
    I want affection that is part of a caring relationship, built on trust.
    Trust takes time. I have to see in action your words are true.
    I have to feel cared for, secure and precious.
    I have to feel trust.
    Then I am happy. And then I want him to touch me with familiarity because we are familiar. I want the connection first. Not physical affection/intimacy before the connection.
    Is that possible?

    It always went the other way for me. But that’s before, when I did things the man’s way.
    But I want him to lead, also.

  361.  #363Lorelei on January 19, 2011 at 2:32 am

    Hi everyone – if anyone is still awake on here.

    So – I had a second date last night with TeaMan. I really rather like him. He – without coming on too strong – makes it very clear he really rather likes me.

    But – I feel sad, disappointed, upset . . . because he told me that he is not even formally separated from his wife – they live in the same house still. Says the marriage has been over for years. That they sleep in separate rooms, cook separately. There is a daughter who was the result of an attempt to reconcile, 10 years ago.

    I really struggled to find the feeling messages for what I needed to say . . . but I managed to say clearly that I didn’t want to get involved with someone who wasn’t free. That I didn’t want to get to know someone in a situation where the wife and daughter could construe it as an affair that finally ended the marriage. That, if his wife decided to sue for divorce on grounds of adultery, I did not want to find myself named as the other party. That I will not take that risk.

    I’m very sensitive to when I’m sitting across the table from someone spilling b*llsh*t, and my sense was that this was a man who was telling the truth, despite some embarrassment and distress.

    I am very attracted to men who can be vulnerable . . . does this make me vulnerable to men who are needy? Is he looking for a woman to “help” him have the courage to get out of his marriage? When I say I’m attracted, I mean that at times I felt really physically attracted to him, even amid all the pain. And some of his pain was triggering some of my own left over pain about the ending of my marriage.

    Is this how rebound relationships happen? Two people, both still getting over the ends of their other relationships, and feeling incredibly bonded because of their shared experience? What exactly is a rebound relationship? I can’t find anywhere where Rori advises us to wait until we’re recovered from the previous relationship before starting dating.

    Because I really like him, I ended by saying that if he got divorce proceedings under way, well under way, then, who knows . . . and that it would feel good to meet again etc.

    I really wish I had used more feeling messages . . . . and fewer thinking statements. But I was finding it really hard to stay in my feelings. My shoulders went really tense. I’m just reflecting here that if I had been able to breathe a bit more, I might have been able to feel my feelings. I need a lot more practice at this.

    This morning I have an email from him saying “Thanks for a lovely evening, until I spoiled it, of course. I’ll be in touch again, when I have some news. Soon.”

    And of course I want to lean forward, to reassure him, to connect, to ‘help.’

    I feel sure that some of you would advise leaning back and doing nothing at all. That might be how I would advise someone else on here!!

    But I want to reply briefly to him, with something like
    “Thanks for a lovely evening. I felt good connecting with you.”

    Because, in fact, it did feel like a lovely evening. I don’t mind honesty, even when it’s heart-rending. I didn’t feel embarrassed, I didn’t want to leave early or during the revelations. I was enjoying the connection.

    What would Sirens do?

  362.  #364Aradea on January 19, 2011 at 2:46 am

    I feel it’s appropriate to send your reply: “Thanks for a lovely evening. I felt good connecting with you.”

    it’s honest, brief, and lets him know how you felt. Maybe it will ignite him into action to know there’s a great women like u he’s missing out on due to inaction regarding his marriage.
    Maybe not. Maybe they will try to reconcile 2 or 3 more times…
    Can you let go of an attachment to any outcome on his part?

  363.  #365marina on January 19, 2011 at 2:53 am

    @#315 Darling Ella
    Thnx for mentioning Gay Hendricks, never heard of him, checking him out on youtube 🙂

    I wonder what else do we feel in our shoulders?
    I think grief is located there too, at the back of our heart chakra (this is what I feel, just wondering if that is right?)


  364.  #366Lorelei on January 19, 2011 at 2:58 am

    Hi Aradea

    Thanks for responding. I don’t have an attachment to the outcome . . . I feel quite ready to say “Next!” anyway, and get on with dating other people in the meantime. Someone on here said, recently, that each one is preparing us for The one, and that really resonates with me.

    Last night, he did also say that it was meeting me that made him realise that he had to take the leap and end his marriage, regardless of anything that might or might not develop between us.

    I might just wait a bit, and sit with it . . . before I send the message . . . I know Rori says we don’t have to reply to messages that don’t ask for a reply – but I usually acknowledge emails – it just seems rude not to.

  365.  #367Lorelei on January 19, 2011 at 3:00 am

    Yeah, I may never hear from him again, and I can deal with that. And I don’t want to hear from him again unless his actions match up with his intentions and his words. It would feel good to hear from him again if his actions do match his words.

  366.  #368marina on January 19, 2011 at 3:04 am

    Oops, it was #312 Femininewoman…Thnx :D!

  367.  #369marina on January 19, 2011 at 3:07 am

    Ella, I feel for you girl…:(

    Thank you for processing through your pain and your feeling messages here.

    Rings a bell on what I should have done preRori…

    I hope you will be OK.


  368.  #370marina on January 19, 2011 at 3:12 am

    I want to take THAT leap 🙂

  369.  #371Lorelei on January 19, 2011 at 3:17 am

    Ella @ 266 and following

    Oh yuk, this feels so yukky and disappointing and frightening to be lied to and to find he’s using . . . and after you’d decided to be exclusive with him for SLV’s “season” at least. I love archerie’s suggestions @ 340 – can’t better them. I’m still trying to find the bit in RR’s programmes where she mentions having a time frame for giving a man a chance . .

    I’d like to repost something I put on a different thread about keeping our eyes and ears open for new information in a relationship, and staring at the realities, rather than our hopes and dreams. It’s something I find really helpful for myself at the moment. I really like the idea that there is a kind of grieving in letting go – sorry, this is really more about me than you . . It says a lot about genuinely feeling our feelings about the new info that emerges.

    “Successful dating and meaningful relationships require reality testing. We keep our eyes and hearts open for new information. We are willing to let go of illusions, including the illusion of perfection, because in the long run our happiness depends on keeping our feet on the ground.

    It’s often bittersweet to let go of illusions, and the death of some illusions may require almost as much mourning as the death of someone physically present in our lives. But an end to suffering and opening ourselves to true happiness requires us to let go of attachment to fantasy and to be willing to accept reality. ”

    John R. Ballew, http://www.bodymindsoul.org

  370.  #372Wonder Woman on January 19, 2011 at 3:45 am

    Brenda @ 343

    Brenda I just wanted to say that I think you are absolutely amazing.

    I feel like I am watching the transformation of a beautiful butterfly and the past few weeks I have been no contacting someone who has been a fixture in my life for some time and when I felt I am not so strong you have inspired me to keep baby stepping right along with you and kept me on track.

    GO BRENDA….!! x

  371.  #373marina on January 19, 2011 at 3:57 am

    @#350 Leo

    Happy birthday Leo!!!

  372.  #374Meemee on January 19, 2011 at 4:27 am

    I am away now.
    Got an interview call from one of India’s reputed research centres. They shortlisted me for a doctoral fellowship. It happened all of a sudden and I had to travel to another city. The past couple of days was hell and hectic. Tomorrow is the interview.
    The money they offer is minimal but its a new opportunity to meet new people, make new connections.
    I am feeling tensed and anxious about the interview.
    I need some positive vibes 🙂 🙂

    I am doing fine otherwise. I do not worry about X these days. No news from Chocolate man. He said hi to me today when we met online and sent me best wishes for the interview.
    Ladies I am feeling so so tensed and nervous about the presentation I have to make tomorrow. There are hundreds of scholars shortlisted for this. I am feeling butterflies in my stomach.

  373.  #375SummerBaby on January 19, 2011 at 4:35 am


    thank you for the kind words of support. I feel great having the caring and encouragement of new cyber friends on this blog.

    He’s been truly wonderful and consistent. I feel excited that he is in my life. It feels good to be treated with respect and tenderness. It feels soothing and relaxing. I feel good about learning more about him.

    My mom calls tears a release valve. I like viewing them that way. I don’t cry much or often, so they kind of took me by surprise, but I let them out. Actually I don’t think I could have held back the floodgates if I tried, so I guess I needed the release.

    I feel better today. I am more accepting and confident that I am coming into the season of ME now. I’m reframing the view as a new adventure for myself in as much as it is a new chapter for my children. I will journal and begin some new habits.

    Best of luck with your CL dating. I always have a friend text me or call about 20 minutes into an online first date. I explain the interruption to the date and they are fine with it. Some of them even endeavor to reveal more about themselves in an effort to win my trust and make me feel safer. Not a bad thing IMO.


  374.  #376SummerBaby on January 19, 2011 at 4:53 am


    can I share a confidence technique? This is an NLP technique I use when I need a boost or to calm the butterflies.

    First I think of a moment when I feel really good. For me the best moment I could come up with is when my cat is on me purring so hard he squeaks, because he’s so affectionate and it makes me feel great in that moment. So I concentrate on the feeling until it’s as if he is there doing it and I let the feeling flood me. Then I imagine a large circle, large enough to step in. I add color to the circle. My circle is red, but you can add whatever color makes you feel good.

    I stand up and actually step in my circle when I need the boost. Then I step out of it when the boost is no longer needed. I use this technique before influential meetings or interview type situations. Then I just say to myself, I am confident and able.

    The best part of this technique is I can do it anywhere, because all anyone else sees is me taking a step and it doesn’t have to be a big one. I practiced it on my own several times in succession before I used it at work. It’s landed me a couple of successful sales and I’ve no doubt it will help in your interview if it feels comfortable for you to use.

    While I’m on the subject, NLP is also helpful for first dates. At first meeting you can take a couple slow deep breaths and think to yourself, I like you, you like me and we will enjoy getting to know one another.

    It shifts my focus and puts me in a better energy space.


  375.  #377Meemee on January 19, 2011 at 4:56 am

    Thanks. Will try that

  376.  #378archerie on January 19, 2011 at 5:45 am

    I second that ..GO BRENDA and GO MEEMEE.

    I look back at the last few months since I came on here and how It helped me get rid of a toxic relationship with G- man and get through cancer, then get through another friends defection, and I think of all the wonderful support and advice of those still here and those who have moved on.

    I am humbled when i think how much evolution occurs on these pages..GO SIRENS !

  377.  #379Lorelei on January 19, 2011 at 5:50 am

    archerie, so it is you – by any other name would smell as sweet . . I thought so. Glad you’re here.

  378.  #380Meemee on January 19, 2011 at 6:04 am


  379.  #381Andi on January 19, 2011 at 6:15 am

    @ 362 Lorelei

    “because he told me that he is not even formally separated from his wife – they live in the same house still. Says the marriage has been over for years.”

    Lorelei, I can very much understand how you feel – I have been there.

    However, I can honestly say, after spending almost 3 years with a man who was separated…it is something I will never personally do again. We loved each other, but he had unfinished business…do I regret it? No. But, do I ultimately wonder where those 3 YEARS went, and if it was time best spent for both us? Yes.

    Now, on the other side of it, with a broken heart and no forever relationship that we had both hoped for…I am determined not to date a man that is not, already, completely, divorced. It just makes it easier for me…I know there are other men out there that are clearly available without the fuzziness of separation. Who can give me the best of themselves – freely. And those are the ones I want to spend my time with.

    I hope and wish the best for you…

  380.  #382life_is_too_short_to... on January 19, 2011 at 6:15 am

    ‘Morning, Sireens,

    I love this post. I love Rori. I love Evan.

    Didn’t someone here– Laura, Lori, Lisi, perhaps–
    ask a question about how to ask your Cds questions without overfunctioning, leaning forward?

    I didn’t see a response. Not saying there wasn’t one, but I did not see it.

    This is something I am trying to figure out.

    I want to know if jungguy, who I am liking a llot, wants multiple sex partners. I want to know this before we ramp it up. I am really enjoying practicing being open, warm and inviting
    and the dance of giving and receiving. I’m going for a nice balance here.

    I tried saying “Myself, I don’t want to be sleeping with anyone who has mutltiple sex partners. What do you think?”

    (OK, OK, I had an expectation by sharing that, so sue me. I want to know!!)

    I get the silent treatment and then a comment that I overthink things, and I don’t get an answer.

    So I don’t push it.

    I am ready to broach this subject again with him, and I would be very appreciative for some input
    from Daria and others,

    about how to find out where the guy stands on important matters without scaring the guy away because he thinks you are out and out asking for a commitment.



  381.  #383Femininewoman on January 19, 2011 at 6:21 am

    Re 381 Life-is-too-Short First of all as Rori puts it first of all make eternal peace with yourself that whatever you want is fine. If you want partnership with a man who wants partnership with you and not a multi-partner hook up that is fine. After you make that peace with yourself I would say go for it, that is establishing your boundaries and I am sure even if he cannot offer that to you right now he will respect you for respecting yourself enought to ask for what you want. If would only say focus on what you want to keep it positive. Saying what you don’t want is also fine.

  382.  #384Mercedes on January 19, 2011 at 6:22 am

    Ok…this doesn’t have much to do with relationships but I need a tool…a visualization….something to meditate on because I need to seriously relax.

    J and I are going on vacation to Colorado next week…we’ll be there almost week. The problem is, I’m really, really busy at work (late nights, early mornings and packed days) and I have a huge project that starts the very day I get back (@8:00am). I want so much to enjoy this vacation…it’s meant to be relaxing…it’s about spending time together and enjoying each other and, for a couple of days, our friends will be there too. And I feel tense already trying to figure out if I should take my laptop and how much work could I get done during the day and is that overkill to work all day on vacation…etc, etc, etc.

    I don’t feel relaxation or enjoyment coming on at all. And…I don’t want him annoyed at my inability to let go of work while I’m there.

    So…someone…please…how do you relax when there’s so much to do? Meditation usually works well for me, but this time I feel like I need something specific that works to calm the mind from “problems” that aren’t going to go away just because I’m meditating on them. LOL.

    Do you have anything you use that tends to work really well? I almost feel like I need hypnosis instead of meditation. Is there a hypnotist in the house? 🙂

    Much Love,

  383.  #385Femininewoman on January 19, 2011 at 6:25 am

    Meemee I have also heard someone say to think of your audience naked or in their underwear to help you relax and laugh.

  384.  #386Femininewoman on January 19, 2011 at 6:26 am

    Meemee the other thing that came to mind is I wonder what would happen if you could just take a moment to deep breathe during the interview and mention “I feel flustered or nervous”, depending if men are in there and you want to practice being authentic? I wonder what would happen?

  385.  #387Femininewoman on January 19, 2011 at 6:28 am

    Re 383 Mercedes The thing that came to mind is whether you asked him how he feels about you bringing the laptop and doing work in the car/plane while traveling? I am curious to know.

  386.  #388Femininewoman on January 19, 2011 at 6:31 am

    Re 362 Lorelei I would encourage you to wait until he is completely separated. I have had a man who told me never to be with a man who isn’t. I think he is still carrying a flame for her in his heart and the truth is nothing you do can help him to put it out, except of course give him the space to miss you and want to come close to you.

  387.  #389life_is_too_short_to... on January 19, 2011 at 6:32 am

    It’s not only about scaring him away.

    I :

    -don’t want to place myself in the leaning forward
    position, and place myself at a disadvantage, in this chess game,

    -don’t want to invest time, energy and emotion
    before I am relatively sure that I am not just a diversion

    I don’t feel that I am, just a diversion. I have received many signs and feelings that he really likes me and wants me to make me happy, but I get the impression that he is used to women who overfunction.

    I have to say that he is a good mirror for me.

    I am also wondering if he is planning on moving away when he can get a transfer — by himself.

    What do you think?

  388.  #390Lorelei on January 19, 2011 at 6:37 am

    Hi Andi @ 380

    Thanks for sharing your experience. This is not an experience i have ever been in before. I do wonder whether I should just cut contact altogether . . I don’t want to yet, though. I want to wait and see what he comes back with, eventually. And I will be CD-ing anyway in the meantime.

    Maybe I should build in this kind of boundary though . . . . no dates till he’s divorced. I feel reluctant though. I want to stay open to him because i feel very attracted to him , , . though I know chemistry doesn’t always lead us in the best direction.

    I’m wondering if he has a message for me – like I have unfinished business, which of course I do. I’m only separated since last July, and will be divorced sometime during this year. I do know this already. And all my CD’s are in a similar situation to me – not through their divorces yet. So I’m kind of attracting guys in a similar place . .

    What a strange situation to be in this is!

  389.  #391Mercedes on January 19, 2011 at 6:41 am

    Femininewoman: Yes…we’ve talked about it. He knows I’m busy and he told me to do whatever I have to do. He always supports me when it comes to my work. Both of us have jobs that tend to go crazy sometimes, so there’s always been a lot of understanding on both sides. He’d never tell me not to work. But while it’s happening, he’s going to really wish I wasn’t/didn’t “have to”.

    Working on the plane isn’t really the issue so much as working while we are there…when we really should be spending time together. *I* don’t want to work there and I’m positive he doesn’t want me to. I would much rather find a way to relax…know everything is going to be fine when I get back and let it go. J can support me and be annoyed at me/my job all at the same time (we’ve both done that before. lol). What I really want is the confidence to know I’ve done this type of project a million times before and being less prepared and jumping right into it after vacation and without a chance to catch up is no big deal. I got this.

    And I can say and say and say all of those things over and over and over and stil my mind says “but…but…but…there are so many things you need to do…”

    Much Love,

  390.  #392life_is_too_short_to... on January 19, 2011 at 6:45 am

    Hi Mercedes,
    For starters,
    Do you know a good massage therapist that can get you into a deep relaxation mode? Your nervous system sounds overloaded and i intuit that you need outside assistance.

    Also, try this:

    Breathe in slow steady evenly thru nose for four seconds. Feel the breath in the back of your throat (make a little snort) Really fill your lungs up and expand rib cage

    Hold your breath for four seconds.

    Take 8 seconds to exhale through the mouth, letting the breath go, nice and easy.

    Repeat as many times as you want.

    Also, from Donna Eden:

    take your right hand and trace a line from your left temple, around your ear, down your neck, over your shoulder, down your arm and off the ring finger.

    Repeat on other side.

    This calms the stress response, flight or flight mechanism.

    Good luck and have fun with J on your trip to Colorado!


  391.  #393Andi on January 19, 2011 at 6:45 am

    @ Jacqueline 332

    “Andi – I am adored now and find it kind of boring – but I am with Mr. low keyed and I was with Mr. Rich, charismatic, tempermental and chaotic – I miss it.”

    Haha! Yes, adoration from Mr.-low-key could be rather uninteresting. For me, adoration is best when Mr. Charasmatic-bad-ass-in-a-good-way slows down and…well… 😀 adores you… I hope he is not like the unicorn and there is more than one of them out there…lol

  392.  #394Lorelei on January 19, 2011 at 6:47 am

    Femininewoman 387

    Thank you for this – and it’s pretty much what I said to him – that a formal separation and the divorce process would have to be well under way before I would want take things any further.

    I did send a brief email reply to his email earlier, and now I am going to lean right back – it may well be that I never hear from him again. I am unattached to what happens. And I want to protect my own heart more than I want something to happen with him. And I do have other CD’s to be seeing. I’m going to work on my boundaries . . . and my feelings . . . and speaking them clearly . . .

  393.  #395Femininewoman on January 19, 2011 at 6:54 am

    Re 393 Lorelei I feel you are wrong in thinking it is over. He said “Soon” which might be just a string along hint but suggests to me that you are on his mind. I also feel it was great you telling him thank you. He will feel your leaning back and protecting your heart and I am positive he can understand that. He will also feel the unattachment and respect you for that, is my humble opinion.

  394.  #396Mercedes on January 19, 2011 at 6:55 am

    Life: Thank you!!

    “Your nervous system sounds overloaded and i intuit that you need outside assistance.” – I don’t know about the outside assistance although I’m certainly not opposed to it…but the “overloaded” part? OH YEA! That’s ME right now!

    “This calms the stress response, flight or flight mechanism.” – Which is exactly what I need! A calmed stress response.

    “Good luck and have fun with J on your trip to Colorado!” – Let’s hope I can do that. LOL

    I really, really appreciate the tips. Thank you!

    Much Love,

  395.  #397Andi on January 19, 2011 at 6:58 am

    389: Lorelei

    Hi there…I was also separated when we met…there was a ton of chemistry and connection…I had to go for it, I dived in, completely…and I am glad I did…sort of…

    I think the difference is, I quit DATING other guys..that was my biggest mistake. And yes, I also had unfinished business, too. And in no way do I want to judge him, you, or anyone. Just looking back, I wish I had known about the concept of circular dating and done it…

    I did eventually get my divorce much earlier than he did…he had circumstances that prevented him…it just became prolonged and in the end not healthy for either of us. I haved learned now and will set that boundary.

    Also, I agree, I think we do attract people who are in a similar place.

    Another thing I have learned – when it started feeling bad, a lot more feeling bad than good, and there was no fix for long-term commitment in sight…I should have gotten out.

    So once you start feeling bad, I would just take note.

    Keep me posted! xoxoxo!

  396.  #398Femininewoman on January 19, 2011 at 6:59 am

    Re 392 Mr. Rich resources could be a mask over who he really is. Adoration absolutely comes from a man who is into you.

  397.  #399Lorelei on January 19, 2011 at 7:07 am

    FeminineWoman @ 394

    I really appreciate your affirmation, and I also feel proud of myself that I was able to be very clear with him about what I didn’t want, and what I would not tolerate. And please believe me, when I say that I won’t. I deserve better, I am worth more, that being the nice woman holding his hand while he dithers about whether to go and instruct a lawyer. I’ve googled his wife, and found that she has a public FB page, is on Twitter, and has a blog! No way I want to end up being blogged about as the other woman!!!

    And yes, ‘soon’ could mean anything!!! Time will tell.

  398.  #400Lorelei on January 19, 2011 at 7:11 am

    Andi 396

    I will indeed keep CD-ing – I have an email today from ZenMan about our next date, WaveMan is texting me daily and we’re talking about our next LD date, and I’m also saying “next!” cos I want another one in the mix or the rotation!! It is quite good fun.

    The one thing I feel very puzzled about though, is how I feel turned on by all of them . . . this is strange . . . it kind of depends who I’ve most recently seen who I feel most attracted to. This is plain WEIRD, surely? How can I be attracted to all of them all at the same time?! Anyone have any ideas?!

  399.  #401Femininewoman on January 19, 2011 at 7:20 am

    Re 399 Lorelei I believe because it is about you and how you feel. It might also be interesting to tune into yourself to see what turns you on and what you find attractive. Each might have a little of that. Plus if you decide to really be into your body and be willing to be turned on I feel any number of men, people, attributes can be a turn on. That’s what I feel so I keep that flame going for me. Whoever wants to step up big time I want to know I am already turned on them.

  400.  #402Andi on January 19, 2011 at 7:25 am

    @399 Lorelei

    I think you are doing great! I don’t think it is weird you are attracted to all of them…you seem to be just be very open, enjoying the experience, learning, having fun…go for it! I feel very happy for you!

  401.  #403Lorelei on January 19, 2011 at 7:34 am

    Good point @ 400 FW

    Thanks for all your help today! It’s funny, but immediately what springs to mind is that TeaMan (who the above convo is about) and WaveMan have something boyish and playful about them – and I love it when I can somehow see the boy they once were within the man . . and they have a playful quality with words and ideas . . and they can all match me for word-play and wittiness, and Wave Man and Tea Man and ZenMan all have relationship of some branch of the arts (which is really important to me). ZenMan is less boyish, and darker somehow, the humour is there but more submerged somehow.

    And I really like the idea that it’s perhaps not so unusual to be turned on by lots of people, because it puts me firmly in my body . .

  402.  #404Mercedes on January 19, 2011 at 7:39 am

    Lorelei: Do you ever watch The Bachelor or Bachelorette shows? There is always a LOT of attraction and being turned on by a lot of different people. In that situation, as in yours, it is simply people being attracted as they get to know others and as they learn about them. I think it shows a clear sign of you having an open mind.

    The attraction itself will grow and diminish with various men as time goes on until you have found the right person for you. In my own experience, J was right for me and was able to diminish any amount of being turned on by any other man. I still find other men attractive…but he cured me of wanting them sexually at all. 🙂

    Much Love,

  403.  #405Lorelei on January 19, 2011 at 7:43 am

    Mercedes 403 – hi

    No – we don’t have these shows in the UK, as far as I know . . . I’ve read about them on here, and heard RR talk about them. They sound really interesting!

    My only worry is that I’m in danger of leaping prematurely into a sexual relationship – cos I’m so frustrated! Onesomes are great, but not the same as with a man!! I can’t believe I’ve just written this in public on a blog, but at least I’m well and truly anonymous, and this is the year of new experiences!!!!

  404.  #406Lorelei on January 19, 2011 at 7:45 am

    Got to go now Sirens – to a professional development and networking thing, where there will be lots of men. I hope!! I feel very thankful to all who’ve responded to my posts on this one. More later!

  405.  #407Mercedes on January 19, 2011 at 7:52 am

    I’m out too. Staff meeting coming up. Everyone cross your fingers that I get the information I need to get started on this project today. If I can do that, I may not need the massage. I may get it anyway, but I may not need it. 🙂

    Much Love,

  406.  #408Simply Shannon on January 19, 2011 at 7:53 am

    Ha! Mercedes, I swear we channel each other.

    Last night I’m working all day, then trying to get ready for my bible study girls to come over. I have to clean my house, make a snack for us, and prepare what I want to discuss. (I’ve been thinking about it a little bit but haven’t written it done.) Satan is literally attacking me, convincing me to cancel bible study. “You’re gonna fail”, “You’re gonna look like a fool”, “You’re so unprepared”, “Just cancel the study, nobody will care”… you get my point.

    I finally said “Go talk to J*sus because I am done listening to you. I will be perfectly prepared and right on time and today’s study is going to go GREAT.”

    And it did. Looking back, I did all of the above in one hour, and the study literally felt fabulous last night!

    So my mantra is that any time a negative thought comes up, I say “I will be perfectly prepared and right on time”.

    I’ve actually tweaked this a bit this morning to say “I will be perfectly prepared and be a little early”. 😉

    I’ve pulled this together as a combo of The Secret and Matthew 7:7. Ask and it will be given.

    Ask and God says yes.


    I will be perfectly prepared and be a little early.

    God said Yes.

    I feel amazed how much this is working.

    I say go and enjoy your vacation with J. You will be perfectly prepared and a little early for your 8am meeting when you come back. Believe it and God will work behind the scenes to get the right people and circumstances in place to make it happen.

  407.  #409RTCathy on January 19, 2011 at 7:56 am

    Yes, leaping prematurely is something i suffered from too! It had been 11 years since I had leaped before! still 3.5 weeks in was far too soon but it was fun! I am still in the relationship (just).

    I feel so nervous now that my dinner date is coming up tonight with BMW man, we have been on a break since 1 Jan! I dont know whether he will say a big hello or goodbye. Whether I can stand to be told that he may have hooked up with the women who is supposed to be just a friend or not… I am making up possible outcomes again…stop NVs

    I want him to tell me that he missed me and that he realises he loves me now! I want to tell him that I feel that we should take it slowly and that I need to feel safe again with him.

    oh lordy!

  408.  #410Mercedes on January 19, 2011 at 8:00 am

    Hey Shannon…I have exactly 4 minutes before my meeting, but that’s the thing. I love your response but my problem is that I will not be perfectly prepared if I’m not here to get prepared…unless I work on vacation.

    I know I can’t prepare and not work so what I have to be able to live with is “I will be almost totally unprepared and still fine”. or I have to be willing to work and get prepared. I get home midnight the night before the project starts. This will include 5 people new to our company, walking in the door at 8:00am…waiting for me to instruct them over the next 8 weeks or so. No…I won’t be prepared but I need confidence I’ll be fine anway. lol

    Much Love,

  409.  #411tinque on January 19, 2011 at 8:05 am

    Lorelei – “I can’t believe I’ve just written this in public on a blog, but at least I’m well and truly anonymous”

    Actually it’s an enormously liberating feeling. Your openness will help others to do the same. How about trying it with friends, totally non-anonymously? You may very well find them to be grateful to you for opening that door for them.


  410.  #412tinque on January 19, 2011 at 8:06 am

    Miss M – I have not a single worry that you won’t be anything but great. I know you well enough to know this. Miss you my friend.


  411.  #413PrairieGirl on January 19, 2011 at 8:07 am

    Nancy #330 “My question about this article is… at what point are we falling hook, line and sinker? I would venture to guess that for me… it’s when I fall hook, line and sinker into BED with him!”

    OMG THAT is ME completely!!!!!
    I’ve had to swear off… for now.. I don’t have an exit strategy for my abstinence plan since I would honestly not consider marrying a guy w/out sleeping w/him first…. But for the time being I am just completely blindsided/hooked/STUPID after sleeping w/them…

    I’m having to consider what to do if Smooth Cowboy comes back for another visit… I feel kind of weird saying I won’t sleep w/you after I already did (he’d be fine w/it, he’s just that classy)… and it was SO good… but I get SO hooked and I’m just now REALLY feeling free since the week before Christmas…

    Okay… rambling now..

    LP thank you for posting the whole link to that article/comment… I can never find it… I just pasted the part I posted on my desktop for reference…

    Prairie Girl..

  412.  #414Lori on January 19, 2011 at 8:08 am


    Re #381. I ask questions to men all of the time. I just phrase it as “I feel curious about…” rather than “what is?”

  413.  #415Femininewoman on January 19, 2011 at 8:08 am

    Re 408 RTCathy I think he might be just as nervous as you are and end up playing it cool. My suggestion focus on having fun and be the flirty girl you are inside. I would hold off on telling him anything until he invites my opinion. Or of course something comes up that allows me to share my feelings.

  414.  #416Femininewoman on January 19, 2011 at 8:25 am

    Just read the following “But trust me — deep inside, at some deep emotional level, all men are the same.

    “all men respond positively to certain words, actions, and impressions we give them.”

    This reminds of the story with Lorelei son’s. I will pay closer attention to the posts where Sirens share how they get good positive responses from their men.

    ) If he says something nice about you, it’s insulting if you don’t believe him. When a man says something nice or complimentary, think of it as a gift. Most men don’t give gifts often. Making him explain why he said something, or asking him if he really means it is the fastest way to get him to stop trying to say kind things. The best way to respond… especially if you’re in a playful mood, smile and hold his gaze.

    2) You can only get upset to the same degree that you cheer.
    It is very frustrating to a man if a woman he loves faintly notices the good things he does, and then becomes very emotional and angry when he does something rude, selfish or indifferent. The man sees her emotional intensity and wonders, “Why didn’t I get that same intensity (on the positive side) when I planned that wonderful evening last weekend?” The best way to respond… You can get upset with a man when he does something wrong, but cheer for him with the same degree of enthusiasm when he does something right.

    3) He’s not a mind reader. He’s a a guy. This means he only understands the “meaning behind the meaning” during tender moments. When you are upset with him he takes what you say literally. The more intense the disagreement, the more literal he
    takes what you say. The best way to respond… When you are upset, talk softer and slower, men find such a woman captivating. No e-mails, no texting. It must be over the phone or even better, in person.

  415.  #417Lori on January 19, 2011 at 8:26 am

    I feel like I’m about to have my no sex and no exclusivity boundaries tested. The last time either was tested was a year ago, and I failed miserably when a man I had crazy physical chemistry with showed up. Since then, all of my CD guys have tested other boundaries but haven’t pushed the no sex or no exclusivity issues.

    Now I have a date with a new CD guy early next week and I feel wildly attracted to him physically with a mental connection as well. He seems to have his act together, is consistent and generous with his time and attention, is looking for a serious relationship and exclusivity. He’s not dating anyone else, just focusing completely on me. I don’t feel like he would push the sex issue with me at all-I know he will respect whatever I say I want. I do feel he will push the exclusivity boundary though.

    I feel afraid that my boundaries are only strong when I can find and focus on other issues I have with a man. I feel unsure about whether my boundaries are strong at all when faced with a guy who feels so perfect for me and is doing and saying all of the things I want and need.

    But I feel ready for something great, and I do feel that’s why he has showed up. Not necessarily that he’s “the one”, but to show me that there are men with the qualities I want out there. He is head and shoulders above any CD guy I’ve been out with over the past year.

    I feel nervous and excited. Not sure which one I feel more. I feel afraid I’m going to turn to total mush the second he kisses me. But at the same time, I cannot wait until he kisses me. I feel afraid that in my mushiness I am going to agree to both sex and exclusivity. I feel like such a mushy mess today just thinking about it!

  416.  #418Senior Lady Vibe on January 19, 2011 at 8:28 am

    @370: Lorelei says:
    “…after you’d decided to be exclusive with him for SLV’s “season” at least.:

    There are no guarantees, but for me, I think CD is best and would give a “season” or two 😉 if I were in love, if thought guy were too, there was discussion of “gf/exclusivity” and a relationship was established after four, five, six months. Just my opinion, for me.

    But who knows…could be bing, bang, boom, after six weeks… 😆 … probably not though…

    “…It’s often bittersweet to let go of illusions, and the death of some illusions may require almost as much mourning as the death of someone physically present in our lives…”

    And the pain is physical…


  417.  #419life_is_too_short_to... on January 19, 2011 at 8:35 am

    @382 femininewoman
    Thank you for the advice and encouragement.
    The bottom line here is that the lack of information is turning me off, so I’m going to have to ask for what I want.

  418.  #420Andi on January 19, 2011 at 8:36 am

    @ Lorelei

    “something boyish and playful about them…”

    ooooo I love a masculine energy man who can appreciate the arts and can show his playful side…oooo love it!!

  419.  #421Simply Shannon on January 19, 2011 at 8:37 am

    Mercedes, that’s exactly why the mantra/prayer works! Just keep saying it.

    I will be perfectly prepared for whatever happens on Monday. I trust God to line up everything for me. I will prepared and a little early!

    Who knows what will happen. Work could be canceled that Monday. Or upper management suddenly decides to ask everyone to come in at noon. Or HR needs all those newbies to do something else all day on Monday. Or it suddenly becomes clear what you need to tell them to do first thing, like you get a memo hand delivered with the instructions.

    Just think… if you take your laptop and work all week to prepare and then one of the above happens… wouldn’t that feel awful? All that time preparing and boom… the office is closed. I say enjoy your vacation!

    I will be perfectly prepared for whatever happens Monday after vacation and even be a little early.

    BELIEVE IT. It’s already happening.

  420.  #422life_is_too_short_to... on January 19, 2011 at 8:39 am

    @413 Lori
    “I feel curious about….”
    He seems to have an aversion to “being interviewed”, but I want him to know that it is important to me to know certain things so that I can stay turned on to him and a relationship with him.

  421.  #423Senior Lady Vibe on January 19, 2011 at 8:42 am

    @381: life_is_too_short_to… says:

    “I get the silent treatment and then a comment that I overthink things, and I don’t get an answer…”

    IMHO, that’s all the answer I’d need. At the moment, this guy is *not offering* me an exclusive sexual relationship. There is no reason to keep at him or thinking about it until he makes some overture or relationship fades due to not moving forward.

    And, of course…continue CD.


  422.  #424Simply Shannon on January 19, 2011 at 8:47 am

    Lori, #416 really resonated with me. I’m in the same boat! I know my sex boundary is about to get pushed big time… by ME. 😉 I’m playing around with this one in my mind. A part of me doesn’t really want this boundary. I feel really resistant but I also KNOW this is the right thing for me. I’m just not in a head/heart space where I feel trusting enough or open enough to have casual sex. And it’s casual until I got a ring on my finger.

    And yet a part of me wishes I could have casual fulfilling GREAT sex.

    Yeah, I’m still toying with this boundary. Been praying about this one quite a bit. God doesn’t want me to “suffer”, and this pining/longing feels bad. I’m confused.

  423.  #425Senior Lady Vibe on January 19, 2011 at 8:52 am

    @399: Lorelei says:

    “…This is plain WEIRD, surely? How can I be attracted to all of them all at the same time?! Anyone have any ideas?!…”

    I have no solution if you want to stop it but I have a sense that guys do this all the time…


  424.  #426Femininewoman on January 19, 2011 at 8:57 am

    Re 416 Lori please remember guys like it when you make them wait. Sexual tension needs to build, plus you shortcircuit the emotional attraction when you go immediately to the physical attraction. My humble opinion is you should wait to build the attraction to such a level that he acts like an idiot around you. You’ve got to keep them wanting to come back….

  425.  #427Lori on January 19, 2011 at 9:03 am


    It’s tough, especially when it has been so long and he is soooooo sexy. For me, it might be easier if I thought he was looking for something more casual, though honestly I probably wouldn’t be as attracted to him as I am if that were the case. But he has made it clear that HE wants exclusivity before he has sex. And I know he is looking to settle down permanently. And I feel excited to finally meet someone in the same place/on the same page as I am AND have a physical and mental connection with him.

    But then my overanalytical mind kicks in and says “it’s going TOO fast. He lives in another town. What if he has some skeleton in his closet I haven’t seen yet? What if he’s playing me?” and on and on doing it’s dirty sabotaging work like it always does!!!!

    I just feel so strong in my boundaries normally, but this guy literally makes me feel weak in the knees and I haven’t yet had to (try to) stick to a boundary under these circumstances…

  426.  #428Lori on January 19, 2011 at 9:08 am

    re 425 Femininewoman,

    Oh, I know you’re totally right, and for what it’s worth, he and I have spent alot of time so far just developing the emotional connection and getting to truly know one another. The sex thing didn’t even come up for the longest time! But it’s the elephant in the room now because of the raging chemistry. And I know he wouldn’t push it. But the attraction is building to such a level that BOTH of us are starting to act like idiots! And since I’M the one with the boundaries, I’M the one who has to have a clear head here. And with him, I have to be ready for both sex and exclusivity if I make a decison in a moment of weakness….

  427.  #429Femininewoman on January 19, 2011 at 9:09 am

    Re 426 Lori says “And I know he is looking to settle down permanently. And I feel excited to finally meet someone in the same place/on the same page as I am AND have a physical and mental connection with him”

    Please remember this can turn on a dime. Just as we have emotions going in and out constantly fluctuating so do they. Plus when we focus on them Rori teaches that they feel pressured.

    “this guy literally makes me feel weak in the knees” This is great in my opinion that you know you are totally turned on by him, and I have shared that with a guy in the past. It magnitized him closer to me even though I was telling him that I was breaking away from him. I would share that “I feel totally attracted to you and feel weak in my knees. You are totally hot and I am turned on to you but I want to wait until I am solid in a secure relationship that is moving in the direction of …………………….”

  428.  #430Femininewoman on January 19, 2011 at 9:11 am

    Re 423 SS Guys know that girls cannot have casual sex like a sport because we get emotional, unlike them. When we act like a guy they end up treating us like one of the guys, is that we really want?

  429.  #431life_is_too_short_to... on January 19, 2011 at 9:15 am

    @422 SLV
    Yes, a non-answer is definitely an answer too.

    I like your response because you got it that I don’t want to show all my cards to him too soon.

    So I have to come to terms with the fact that I just don’t feel comfortable amping it up
    when there are too many unknowns.

    Part of me wants to be able to have good fulfilling casual sex based on basic affection and chemistry and not be concerned with anything else.

    Another part of me wants more substance in place first. One guy who wants a “lasting” and special relationship with me. Loyalty. I know I am not the only one here struggling with this.

    For now, I am going to have to follow my feelings. When he pressures for sex, I am thinking of telling him that I just don’t feel comfortable or turned on around casual sex and leave it for him to figure out and bring up.

    Yeah. I feel most comfortable with that.

  430.  #432Summerbaby on January 19, 2011 at 9:16 am

    When Mr. TreatsMeLikeGold suggested intimacy, I then told him how I feel about intimacy. I even asked “oooh, do you think we are ready for that?”
    I told him that when it comes to intimacy it’s the one thing I can’t share. I can’t remember all the exact words but I tried to use feeling messages.

    I feel that when it comes to a big step like intimacy, it’s important to feel like you are both on the same page. If his values don’t match yours, it could get really icky, and I agree with SLV’s opinion in 422.


  431.  #433Lori on January 19, 2011 at 9:17 am

    Femininewoman re @428

    Maybe I’m afraid of him offering me what I want…

  432.  #434RTCathy on January 19, 2011 at 9:17 am

    Femininewoman – thank you for two very good peices of advice – will remember them. Of course! If i keep pushing my agenda that is masculine – forget that all the time!

    I also beneiftted from sirens advice about being nervous and unprepared too – somehow, the topics we discuss always seem to be completely relevant – how do you girls do that?!

  433.  #435life_is_too_short_to... on January 19, 2011 at 9:22 am


    Yes, and I don’t want to become like a man and have sex like a sport.


    I think there ARE lots of women who do like no strings attached sex, outside of committed relationships, and there are plenty of men around to oblige them.


  434.  #436Femininewoman on January 19, 2011 at 9:23 am

    Re 427 Well I would say go read everything Rori says about exclusivity before deciding to it. It could be a trap that allows him to come into your space all the time, showing up whenever he wants to. Make sure you are ready for that level of intimacy also him backing off a bit when the emotions get higher than he can handle because it will get there. Can you handle him withdrawing? They withdraw from emotions; their own and ours, remember guys go back into their caves until they rebalance their masculinity. Then they come back are you ready for the withdrawal that might send you into a tailspin of insecurity?

  435.  #437Summerbaby on January 19, 2011 at 9:23 am

    Mercedes @ 383,

    there are many tools and visualizations you can use and I use self hypnosis often. First set your intention. The visualization I would most likely use would be feeling the feelings of confidence and success of everything coming together easily the morning of beginning the new project.

    while meditating, the fastest way to get to alpha or the hypnotic state for me has been to relax and imagine the space between your right ear and your left shoulder, or the back of your throat to you right knee… just wander around your body this way and something about the way our brains work, poof you’ll feel yourself kind of drifting… at this point work your visualization. Don’t be surprised if you end your self hypnosis with more energy than when you began.

    Another technique I use when I start to fret about something is to make a deal with myself to worry about it at10 pm. or whatever time you want. You can give it 10 minutes, 5 minutes or whatever you decide, but the postponement and promise to do that, frees you to be in the moment at the time you want to be. You may then find when the time comes to worry about it, that you really don’t need to anymore.

    Have a wonderful vacation!


  436.  #438Femininewoman on January 19, 2011 at 9:25 am

    Re 434 “think there ARE lots of women who do like no strings attached sex”.

    I believe women are actually built differently so that is not part of my belief system.

  437.  #439Simply Shannon on January 19, 2011 at 9:27 am

    Lori (and others – thank you for commenting too!), Something which is coming up for me is that I want a man who will stand up for MY boundaries too. So he’s strong when I’m weak kind of thing. I tripped across this one with a guy I dated last year (Mr. Fab Kisser). I allowed myself to have sex with him but I felt anger towards myself AND him for not sticking up for MY boundary. In the end, it made me think less of him.

    And I like what SummerBaby said about being on the same page.

    What would it look like to say the words to him?

    Me: I feel incredibly turned on when I’m around you. I want to have sex with you. The chemistry feels hypnotic. But I feel afraid to have sex without a commitment. I feel afraid I’ll think less of us if we go that route.

    Him: Ok, I want you to be my girlfriend.

    Me: What does girlfriend mean to you? I don’t really want to be a girlfriend. I want to be a wife. I feel open to exploring this with you but I don’t want to feel stuck in a relationship that isn’t going anywhere. What do you think?

    I like!

  438.  #440life_is_too_short_to... on January 19, 2011 at 9:31 am

    Yes, you are probably right in that having sex with a man automatically activates the nesting and attachment response, but there are also a lot of other factors involved, many of which we have been discussing here, like intimacy issues. A woman may feel comfortable with the closeness and intimacy of sex, but not baring her deepest emotions and desires.

  439.  #441Femininewoman on January 19, 2011 at 9:33 am

    Re 438 SS I think SLV recently shared a message about the type of man and relationship she wants that sounded similar. I might be in the previous thread.

  440.  #442Femininewoman on January 19, 2011 at 9:36 am

    Just got this in an email from Rori
    ” If you lean back, step back, and stop
    Over functioning, they’ll cave in to themselves,
    “snap-to” and work hard to get back in your “good
    graces” until they can “slack off again” and
    STILL keep you around for awhile longer.

    Men are champs at drawing things out.

    I’ve seen men go for years – 2, 5 – even 8!
    without even TALKING about commitment.”

    Thanks for the reminder Rori.

  441.  #443Simply Shannon on January 19, 2011 at 9:38 am

    Life re: 439 – I’ve used sex as a way to close off emotional intimacy all of my life! I don’t want to do that anymore. I want sex AND emotional intimacy. So far I haven’t figured out how to have both in a way that feels good to me. Working on it though!

    I want sex and emotional intimacy with a guy who wants to give me both forever.