Extra Weight, Healthy Weight, and Attraction

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gained weightI just received this question – and it’s such a hard one, such a delicate, emotional one…I thought I’d take a stab at it because it’s important:

“Rori, My 16 year relationship ended 5-1/2 months ago.  Reason being:  I have gained weight over the years.  Is it reasonable to break up with someone over weight or should that person love you regardless?”

My Answer:

I read a lot about what happens when passion goes out of a relationship, when sex stops, when affection stops, when attraction fades.  And the “why” of it.

My favorite book on this is “He’s Just Not Up For It Any More” by Bob Berkowitz.

He doesn’t just talk about it as an “expert” – it’s all studies, answered by thousands of men and women, wives and husbands about why sex stopped.

And, yes – weight gain is right there on the list of why men stop having sex with their wives (which might translate into why he disappears or leaves if you’re not married to him but you’ve been with him for awhile).

But it’s not the way we picture it.

It’s not that they want us “thin” – it’s the GAIN that’s the problem.  The CHANGE.  AND it’s very specifically related to the AMOUNT of weight gain.

Men don’t seem to mind – or even notice – 20 to 30 pounds gained. Depending on how it shows up on your body.  If it adds to your breasts and hips, men don’t care so much – a lot even LIKE it!

But – weight gain around the middle (this is where it hits the women in my family) more than 20-30 pounds destroys the illusion of a “waist” and becomes noticeable to them.

So – it IS a physical, visual thing.

But – it’s more than that.  The weight symbolizes other things – things that cause deeper problems.

And remember – this has nothing to actually DO with your weight or anything else, if he met you and fell in love with you as you are now.  It’s the CHANGE that throws him off.

The same would hold true of any other change you made – even GOOD ones – like getting a better job, or one’s he doesn’t like – like stopping cooking for him…any change that affects him might trigger anger, resentment and so a withdrawal of affection.

If there’s already resentment and anger built up, and communication isn’t so great – it’s easy for a man to think you don’t think highly of yourself. And – that you don’t care about HIS pleasure or HIS experience of you.

In other words – he’s likely to think you’re gaining the weight to “get back at him” – or to keep from having sex, or – to destroy the emotional connection of the marriage.

And the truth is – if we’re honest with ourselves – he might be right!  I mean, we may be stuffing down our anger and using food to feel emotionally satisfied.

Or to keep from hitting him or starting a fight.

What was so amazing about the short letter we started out with is – we think men should be more like us, and love us for “ourselves” – regardless of a little extra weight or wearing sweatpants, or not paying attention to him because we’re so busy – or anything else.

Which means, if we believe this in any way – we are completely clueless about how attraction works, how penises work, how men work.

AND – we’re completely not even looking at what attracts US in a man!

Do we believe that once a man commits to us he should love us no matter what we look like?

Even if what we look like and the way we take care of ourselves and what we wear feels to him like an outward demonstration that we don’t care?

And even more important – that we don’t love ourselves?

In other words, if we let ourselves go completely, stop wearing attractive clothes and let our bodies go because we don’t have time to take care of them – we think a man should feel the same way about us because we are the same woman he “loves.”

And it just doesn’t work that way for him.

Does it work that way for you?

If your man slowly but steadily put on a beer belly, stopped exercising and wore the same clothes everyday – would you be as anxious to rip his clothes off as you were when he was more in shape?

Likely not, on a physical basis.

We women think, also, that we are “emotional” about romance. In other words – if we “love” a man because he’s a good man, a good father, a kind and loving person – then we’ll feel sexy and romantic toward him – and I believe that to be true!

In fact, that’s what I teach, what I encourage – to give a man a chance to grow on you.

BUT – I don’t know any woman who tells me up front that it would work for her.

Every woman I work with really wants chemistry – and I have to say it over and over and over that chemistry builds as you know more about him and feel good and really good about yourself in his presence.

AND – it doesn’t work that way for men.

Penises don’t work the way our vagina’s do.  We can turn ourselves on in mysterious, deep ways.

Men can’t.

Their equipment either works or it doesn’t – in the extreme case…and in the emotional case:

Their desire and libido and willingness to engage in sex with you when a hand job from themselves will work just as well is a delicate thing.

In other words – the desire that makes the equipment work is way different than the desire we require to have fulfilling sex.

Tenderness and lovingness might be enough for us (and as many men get older, if they’re willing – this can go a long way for a man, too) – but, mostly – it doesn’t work that way for a man.

Tenderness and lovingness might turn us on in a romantic sense – but it doesn’t turn a man on.

You don’t have to be a centerfold. You just have to continue to be what he found attractive in you in the first place – to the best of your ability.

Sickness and children and all kinds of things interfere as life goes on, and only a very immature man isn’t willing to get through the rough patches.

It’s the consistent, overall trend in our self-esteem and interest in maintaining the chemistry of the relationship that is meaningful here.

The thing is – you can talk this stuff out.

Growing and evolving individually as people is what relationship and marriage is supposed to do for us – each of us, individually, because now there’s a TEAM.

Now there’s someone else pulling for you, rooting for you.

Now there’s someone else on your side, championing you.

If you gain weight, and he notices, he’s supposed to want to know why and be on your team, yes – AND, at the same time, if his body doesn’t react the same way to your body as it did…that may come first in his mind.  In other words, if all of a sudden he’s feeling different and noticing it – it’s easy to make it your fault.

And then stuff it all under the table.

And – if he brings it up when you ask how you look in a dress, and he says, yes, he does notice you’ve gained weight…do we get mad?

Do we think he’s supposed to feel no differently toward us because he loves us and is committed to us?

Are YOU able to do that?

This is a hard one, I know, and I didn’t really want to write about it…but when I read that book, I thought only one thing.  If I’ve gained weight, or become depressed or anxious, or only focused on my job, or any other change that could possibly shift the emotions and chemistry of the relationship, and my man is less affectionate…what do I do?

Most of us just don’t deal.  We make it his fault, call him immature. We build resentment, think: “I put up with SO much of his crap…I can’t believe he’s making a big deal out of THIS!”

Somewhere in all of this is a message.  And that message is about us, and what we want.

If we want love and romance, it comes at a standard price. You must love yourself enough to do both of these:

1. Not take things personally.

2. Hear the message.

That means: Hear what he’s saying, even though you don’t like it and don’t like where it’s coming from and it makes you angry.

You don’t have to “placate” him, or be a “doormat” for him.

But you have to respect the human being he is, and at the same time, respect the human being you are.

See what bothers you about a man, and re-read the letter at the top, and let me know what I just triggered in you…

And Tinque – please weigh in on this!

Love, Rori



  1.  #1Femininewoman on November 3, 2011 at 7:12 am

    hhhmm Look forward to Tinque’s perspective

  2.  #2English Woman on November 3, 2011 at 7:29 am

    Aaarrggghhhhh almost………….but not quite, story of my life. 🙂

  3.  #3sammie sighs on November 3, 2011 at 7:38 am

    Hi FW can you look at my post on last thread really could do with help with this one ta x

  4.  #4Femininewoman on November 3, 2011 at 7:41 am

    sammie sighs have you read through Rori’s “Other Women in his Life” category?

  5.  #5Esteemed on November 3, 2011 at 8:10 am


    I am extremely overweight, and you handled this topic tactfully…thank you.

    The comment I made to a man once was a woman who is well loved will be slender well into her older years. I will add to that the any woman that loves herself well will be slender well into her older years.

    What I mean underlying those statements is that any woman who is overweight is not healthy emotionally. Find emotional wellness and you have found physical slenderness.

    And that, my precious Rori, Is the path that I have been on with you in this last 2 and a half years.

    I am determined to lose weight and get in shape oncest again!

    Love, Brenda

  6.  #6Wants To Be Hopeful on November 3, 2011 at 8:12 am

    I know I feel better about myself and more sexy when I am thin, (I am probably 20 pounds heavier than I should be now). And exercise makes me feel better too. I think one should focus on being thin for their own happiness, and with the secondary goal of being more attractive to your man. A girl has got to be happy in her own skin. I think men respond to that too.

  7.  #7sammie sighs on November 3, 2011 at 8:13 am

    FW yeah I have and I know what Roris saying but I keep in touch with guy friends and I know he has always done this because he is a good guy and he will help and do anything for you ! I dont want to stop him being him, friendly etc I just need to handle my feeling because I know this is about me!..

  8.  #8Femininewoman on November 3, 2011 at 8:29 am

    For me “healthy” is what is most important. There are guys who are attracted to heavier women. Plus as we age we naturally gain a bit so I believe I would be unrealistic to expect to be the same size I was in my teens or twenties. Plus I understand from Rori that it is the “change” that guys react to. This change is gradual so I can feel empowered to track my changes and choose to do something about them as time goes on.

  9.  #9Camille on November 3, 2011 at 8:29 am

    I think its all about change…..and it doesn’t just have to be with weight. But I also believe, many couples “split” because the relationship isn’t built in a space that accepts change. I really believe we must all go into a relationship expecting change and being able to accept and allow change in each other. Because change is inevitable……and it truly is what we want because with change…..comes GROWTH ……and that is beautiful……….if you can see it as such.

  10.  #10Lyka on November 3, 2011 at 8:34 am

    This is something I come across once in a while at work. We have lingerie and Halloween costumes for sale and these two women who came to try some on last week thought that they looked fat in them. One of them tried on a costume that looked perfect but she kept saying the opposite. She was not skinny, she just had curves and she looked fine. She ended up not buying the costume.

    The other one weighed about 100 pounds and got very self conscious about the “barely there” love handles that showed too much, in her opinion. She also left empty-handed.

    I couldn’t help but mentioning that this seemed to be a problem that women had, that we don’t see ourselves as other people see us, and both their partners agreed with me but there was nothing else I could do to make the women change their mind. Oh, well…something most women should work on, I guess.

    It would also be worthy to mention that some men like women with some meat on their bones.

  11.  #11Starla on November 3, 2011 at 8:42 am

    CF has not called or even texted all week since I saw him on Monday when I asked him for a ride.

    I feel bad about this.

    First step is accepting this sweet and romantic date invitation from Alaska to go to the art museum.

    Second step is telling Crack Fix when he calls to see me that I already have plans and I need more notice, and i feel disappointed because it feels good to spend time with him.

    3rd step is seeing what happens

    4th step is finally accepting that i’m gonna have to give him a little FM speech about not being in touch during the week, as I was hoping to avoid it. I’ll still give him a bit of time and see what happens. It IS that 3-4 month mark where things are a little wonky, and I think that as long as I keep the focus on me and on dating others, I’m gonna be okay. I want to give us the fair chance for things to be a little wonky and figure it out organically.

  12.  #12Femininewoman on November 3, 2011 at 8:48 am

    “Sweetie, somethings bothering me, and I hate to even talk about it, because I feel so good with you…and it’s important to me that we’re just honest with each other and don’t let things get stuffed down…is now a good time to talk?”


  13.  #13Camille on November 3, 2011 at 8:52 am

    It would be my “guess” that he left, more for reasons about how she was feeling about her self, than her weight. He possibly could only communicate as the weight gain. But I think if she can “love herself” again, no matter the wieght, she will she a change in herself, him and all others around her. I think when we dont love ourselves it always manifests somehow physically.. God Bless her and Congratulations for this new time in her life thats may seem at times as terrible………but is going to be such a beautiful awakening and growth.

  14.  #14Virginia Feingold Clark on November 3, 2011 at 8:54 am

    Great post! You deal with the complexity that exists around a woman’s weight and body image. It’s a very personal issue for each woman and there is no pat answer that fits all. Lot’s of good food for thought here.

  15.  #15Starla on November 3, 2011 at 8:56 am

    FW 12

    I love your perfectly timed posts. <3

  16.  #16Susan on November 3, 2011 at 9:02 am

    The physical means a lot to me and although the main damage to my marriage was financial, the physical was also an issue. My ex husband smoked so much that even after a shower and rushing his teeth he reeked of old cigs. I think it was pervasive in his lungs. On top of that, he avoided the dentist and his mouth smelled worse as the years went by. I’m the one who lost interest.

    Once divorced, I moved from Southern Cali (where people generally take health issues seriously) to Texas (where the main foods are bread, meat and breaded fried meat) and the men I was meeting were clinically obese and pretty much impotent. I really got discouraged.

    Sweet Man is also from California and even though he is 63, he is careful about what he eats and he exercises regularly. This really shows up as important as a man ages. A man can’t ‘fake’ it… Good blood circulation is vital!

    I agree with Rori that a plump woman is still seen as attractive, but once she has no discernable waist, the pool of men who look her way diminish. That isn’t good for her health either – physical or mental. I never ridicule obese people, but I do feel sad for them.

  17.  #17Femininewoman on November 3, 2011 at 9:06 am

    This is from a male coach to men:-

    Maybe not right away, but in the long term building of trust between you.


    Be careful here! Do NOT use this as an opportunity to “reveal” complaints.

    “I’ve been hiding the fact that I think you’re getting fat” is not a way to build trust or to break a withholding of truth. It’s just an excuse to vent. What’s the difference? Revealing a truth is a world of difference from revealing a complaint.

    Complaints, by their very nature, are not truth. They are just opinions, or emotions that you feel because of opinions. There’s zero truth in them. And if you confuse this, you will not GAIN trust, but rather BREAK trust.

  18.  #18Tiffany on November 3, 2011 at 9:45 am

    I agree that it’s more about the change. If a woman is “overweight” or just whatever weight she is, and the man loves her, and she then LOSES a lot of weight – he’s probably going to feel like he lost “his woman” that way, too, since she is now different than the woman that he fell in love with.

  19.  #19Tiffany on November 3, 2011 at 9:54 am

    EW – I got your reply from the previous thread.

    Last night i ended up getting into kind of a text convo with the woman. She was super surprised that I was not the guy she’d hooked up with, and also very apologetic. I considered getting into more of a conversation with her, but it all sounded slightly off. She said something about her “hotel room.” So I decided not to go there.

    I just feel like I got a glimpse into what a “clingy” “lean-forward” woman looks like, from the other side. What if I *had* been the guy? How would I have responded to her text of saying “how great that was last night”? Or, more to the point, I’m guessing that the guy left her a bogus number on purpose and it just happened to be mine. Could have been an accident. But there’s a chance that he already saw how needy and clingy she was going to be, and just wanted to have sex with her, and not deal with it. And by “needy” and “clingy” I mean that she kept engaging in conversation with me. It was like she just wanted to have a relationship – with anyone.

    Clearly, she does not know about being a “siren.” But I think these ideas take a lot of emotional maturity. I wouldn’t force this on anyone who wasn’t “ready.” But it’s amazing to see what happens on the other side.

    And I have to say, I feel lucky. Because I’ve never (to my knowledge) had anyone give me a phony number. I might have given out a fake one here and there. But now, if I don’t want to give out my number, I just don’t.

    It was kind of a wake-up call (ha) that, even though I don’t always feel like much of a siren, and I don’t have the relationship I want just now, I’m still on my road to getting there. And I’m probably pretty sireny. At least compared to some. But I don’t believe it’s a competition. We all just need to find our own way…

  20.  #20Ella on November 3, 2011 at 10:07 am

    From previous thread…

    Lyka… re the teeth guy… I only went on 2 dates and did not kiss him… He is a CD.

    After date 2 he text me saying he really wants to kiss me.

    Then I was forced to give him the FM about the teeth…


  21.  #21Tiffany on November 3, 2011 at 10:11 am

    Was actually thinking about body weight recently. yesterday, in fact!

    I was wondering what it would be like to wake up and have my body be very large every day. And I imagine that that’s just how it would be – it would be my body, the same way my body is my body right now.

    I’m not super skinny and I never will be. (nor do I want to!)

    But there is an upper limit for me. If I get to be 20 lbs heavier than I am right now, then I literally cannot stand it. I never “diet.” But I will start to do *something.* I will join a gym. Start exercising more. Eat the same things, just less of them.

    I guess I am lucky that I have a body that responds to those changes, and I know that that is not true for everyone to the same degree.

    But I also think that a lot of it is mental. I have had a commitment – since I was a little kid – to at least wanting to look “good” – and by good, I mean, not to put on too much weight. I am much happier when I feel that I look good. I feel sexy, even if my thighs are larger than the girl next to me. Because I am MY right size.

    Anyone of any shape or size can be sexy if it is YOUR shape and size.

    When you’re not, then you probably just feel a little off, and you will project this feeling to the world.

    Esteemed, I am thinking of you as I write this, and I hope you are not offended by anything I’ve said. I don’t believe that I am better than anyone else. In fact, there is a lot that I *don’t* have control of in my life. being able to control your weight is just one thing.

    But you probably have more control than you think. You may have started to believe that you simply “are” obese or overweight. And if this is a static belief, then your body won’t change. because even if it does, then it will eventually go back to where you are. And maybe that’s just fine. Maybe that is your “right size.”

    But if you don’t feel like it is, then maybe you can check in with yourself and see if you have a “right size” that would feel better to you.

    Hope that’s not getting too personal.

    (FYI, I have a friend who has struggled with her weight all her life. But in my opinion, she looks great, even when she is “larger.” And even when she loses weight, she still looks like herself and is always a little “round.” She is very open about her struggles, and never alienates people because of them. And she has two kids and a great relationship to her husband. Her weight has nothing to do with her self-worth, it’s just the way her body is. I don’t know what that says, it just popped into my mind – I guess about us all having our own “right size.” Sometimes it’s better not to “fight it” 🙂 )

    Just some thoughts…

    hugs to everyone!

  22.  #22tinque on November 3, 2011 at 10:21 am

    Oh my what a loaded and I think complex topic. There are many angles and facets to this.

    The simple answer is yes your man “should” continue to love you regardless, yet if you’ve let yourself go, i.e. not taking the best of care of you which is the basis of all of this work you are doing on yourself right now, then you are not loving YOU.

    Another person can only love you as deeply as you love yourself.

    So it’s not about the weight gain or the letting your muscles turn to mush or not dressing nicely anymore or putting on a little make up. It’s about losing interest in yourself, not having your own best interests at heart.

    So Camille, yes indeed change is inevitable. I would hope we are all changing, growing, deepening, blossoming, BUT if the changes are not for the better, then it could be difficult being okay with it.

    I would also hope that your man would talk with you, ask you what the problem is, and is there anything he can do to help before he “dumps” you.

    If his offer to help is rejected with a “love me as I am”, anyone would feel rejected, abandoned even. So the relationship could very well be reconsidered on his part.

    Esteemed – If someone loves you right now for who you are, and since you are admittedly heavier than you would like to be; in fact this has been quite a struggle for you for awhile, then he would be falling in love with you as are right now.

    He wouldn’t likely look to have you change, except that you are wanting this for yourself, so he may offer to help.

    We all age. We all will be changing in ways some may find unattractive. This is a different aspect altogether. And I’m sure you’ve all heard of the cliché where an aging man will leave his equally aging wife for a younger woman.

    A good man DOES NOT work this way. He may not exactly see the young woman you once were, but in a way yes he does. You are still his beloved. YOU still take exquisite care of YOU. There is still that beautiful open heart for him to fall into and love and continue to heal through.

    So this is me weighing in.


  23.  #23Camille on November 3, 2011 at 10:38 am

    This triggers a response in me from my past with a similiar situation. And I would say that it is my preference as hard as it is to hear, if my man is finding something “unattractive” or is being “put off” by something. Years ago “T” very kindly made me aware that when I didnt have freshly shaved legs he felt put off by it. And it put his mind in a different place about me sexually at times. When he told me that “years ago” I was crushed and angry later. But after my initial feelings were over I was actually glad he had been truthful. It was easy to remedy and improved his attitude towards pleasing me, because I had listened. Funny this came to my mind after reading this post.

  24.  #24Emoticon on November 3, 2011 at 11:06 am

    Interesting topic. Not really something I have a problem with but I can see how my love for keeping in shape and dressed and made up all the time shows my love for myself and in turn makes it easier for people to love me. One CD once said to me “look at you Zan, so fresh. You really like yourself” when I sent him a picture of me dressed for school. My parents said the same thing to me all my life everytime i get ready to leave the house even as a little girl. I think I have them to thank for that attitude though!

  25.  #25Susan on November 3, 2011 at 11:16 am

    Why is comment 16 still in moderation?

  26.  #26GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 11:55 am

    Okay, this is brilliant, and tho it feels humbling, scary and palpably so to admit this today, I am applying every word of this to my messiness problem, which is a BIG issue here right now, and which I totally see as being pretty much the exact same as a weight-gain problem – just with stuff instead of weight. Oh, this feels like a deep rollercoaster diving into my issues and repressed anger etc.

    Thank you, Rori.

    Also, I have a Q for Rori, and Tinque, or anyone else who has any input on it: Is there any extra thing for a woman who’s a T in the Meyers-Briggs to do regarding how to view, engage and deal with getting more in touch with her emotions and dealing with boy energy, etc? I’m assuming Rori’s Tools just work, period, for all of us, regardless, right?

    Thanks. (and btw I’m all over the OKCupid site now, got a sweet and insightful man soul-mate type writing me amazing poetry, lots showing interest and corresponding… I’ve made the first move and gotten lots of men to practice with. Coffee date hasn’t called yet, but I’m too busy and it’ll probably be next week. We likely know lots of same people and have probably met before… I’ll post when it happens. Sad but hopeful and moving forward, GingerSky. )

  27.  #27GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 11:59 am

    Btw I am an F in the Meyers-Briggs, but just barely, and often have equal energy in both directions (as w E & I, and sometimes P & J as well… I’m such a mixed bag.

    And if anyone wants to see my (exceedingly long) profile on OKCupid, my screen name is Verica2. I’d love to see some other Sirens’ profiles on dating sites if anyone wants to share and if that’s kosher etc. I could learn lots.

    Blessings, all.

  28.  #28GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    I feel shaky in thinking about the whole messiness/weight-gain problem… it’s been an issue all of my kife… feeling like I’m touching a scabbed place, like a skinned and bruised knee as a little girl… no don;t touch that. It feels bad. But it needs to be touched and helped and healed… tears are starting to really come now… oh, this feels scary…

  29.  #29GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    Feels like I’m losing control

    My mouth is starting to slip where my lips meet, and slip across each other out of solidity

    Feels like swirling around in a hole, the frightening whirlwind of my childhood

    I feel my whirlwind feelings, and let them come

    NOt fighting as hard against them now, not trying to gain solidity, letting them come and blow me away like the chaff I was winnowing earlier today when I accidentally blew out the lambsquarter seeds as well as the chaff… all lost…

    And like I’m regaining *control* in a good way over the messy impulses

    I have inproved so much

    I *love* my messy feelings, and feelings of messiness, and like I don’t need them anymore to protect me and can keep getting myself organized in this house I may not be allowed to stay in much longer… and love the chaff-blowing (though not the whirlwind just yet)

  30.  #30GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Improved… I have IMPROVED so much… so effortlessly. That feels good.

  31.  #31GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    I can take care of me…

    I *can* take care of me.

  32.  #32GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    (Have to spam a bit here bc have no more time to come back to this later…)

    Word-painting (land, house, decription of my insides as a home) at bottom of 1st section of my profile is really feeling happy for me (and getting lots of attention, lol).

  33.  #33Susan on November 3, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    I found this article interesting. Perhaps someone here might as well.


  34.  #34GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    And description is also a bit like my more humbly engaged old home here, or like others I’ve lived in… feels good to start having a self more, as I take good care of me… and to feel an identity taking shape once again after many many years.

    Hello, Brenda/Esteemed. Big huge wraparound strong bear arm hugs, to you, girl!

  35.  #35tinque on November 3, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    Gingersky – There is a HUGE difference between gaining some weight because that’s what your body does and letting yourself go. Not the same thing at all. If you’re still taking good care and really loving yourself which is what good care would indicate, then this is not a problem.

    If it is, then this man is not the man for you.

    As for the other, the more you learn to be in your body, being in your heart, feeling, much of the boy energy will diminish naturally.


  36.  #36Starla on November 3, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    Ginger, have you checked out flylady or zenhabits.net?

    Those websites really helped turn me into a neater person

  37.  #37GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    Thanks Tinque 🙂

    It feels like my messy housekeeping tendencies are kind of partly like just what my being does… and largely about letting myself go. This distiction you make feels rich. I’m meditating on your words… as I hop on & off of here while cleaning out stuff.

  38.  #38Camille on November 3, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    Fly Lady helped me to and so did de-cluttler by MiMi

  39.  #39GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    Starla No I haven’t. Wow, thanks!

  40.  #40Camille on November 3, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    Fly Lady helped me too Ginger Sky

  41.  #41Camille on November 3, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    There are alot of great resources out there to help get organized, like weight…these things can be a reflection of something going on inside……it was the case for me.

  42.  #42GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    Tinque, it really has felt most of my life like I couldn’t prevent or control the weight gain of my messiness… makes me feel I can imagine well what it’s like for anyone who gains weight easily… somehow…

    Have had some cognitive ADD focus issues as well as lots of emotional/spiritual/energetic issues… but now I can focus tons better… and actually, even though so sadly NSM is not the man for me it seems, even as perfect as it’s been when it was so, our deep comfortable connection and our challenging interstions both have been very healing and that helped me hugely in becoming neater and taking better care of me… again, as so much of my life, its a mixed bag.

    I’m rambling… better get back to work and let this boy energy do it’s thing… and keep getting more in my body so it will diminish and know it’s place, lol. Thanks again, Tinque… still feeding on your words.

  43.  #43tinque on November 3, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    And Gingersy, I have yet to meet a man who cares about housekeeping. I know they exist, just not in my world. The same thing applies from above.


  44.  #44Starla on November 3, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    Ginger, I still struggle but it feels really important to me. If you ever want to do an accountabilibuddy thing together, I’m game!

    Kinda like how me and Mel were Team Lean Back for a bit.

    Seems like me and her are doing pretty great at leaning back though:) Yay go us

  45.  #45GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    And it’s funny, right before I read your comment, Tinque, I was thinking if man loves and is right for me, he’ll love and cherish some of my stuff bc it makes me happy… and that’ll make him happy. That’s what I want… along with kepeing it all organized and throwing out any old energy that doesn’t serve me and my life, or which has no place or use anymore. I’ll give the same in return as far as him collecting lots of tools etc, lol. That’s my ideal.

  46.  #46tinque on November 3, 2011 at 1:38 pm

    Yep Gingersky, I’m with you on this one. We all have our “stuff”, internal and external.


  47.  #47Daisy on November 3, 2011 at 1:38 pm

    Last Saturday I broke with a man I was dating for 3 months because he got frustrated and punched a wall. I had not seen this behavior and it scared me.

    Normally, he is sweet, loving caring, kind and attentive.

    My previous 10 yr marriage was with a man who was the step father to my children and he threw things and in a rage hit my child in the face and blooded her nose. I left that day and divorced him soon after.

    My BF texted me to apologize that night and I broke it off.

    Yesterday he texted and needed a friend and asked to talk. We spoke for 2 hours. He explained his ligitament frustration to me and informed me that he would never hurt anyone. He also said he was hurt that I would dump him so quickly with just this one incident when we were in a committed relationship. He asked me to come back and I said we could try it again.

    Did I make the right call to break up? Or to come back? Is frustration a good enough reason to hit something?

    I cant tell a good man from a violent man anymore.


  48.  #48GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    Also, Esteemed, my comment about big bear arm hugs was bc i have great deal of affection & esteem 😉 for you, not about you or anyone else’s weight.

  49.  #49Starla on November 3, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    tinque 39

    i used to be a megaslob and no man cared. Not even when my dishes were developing mold.

    a couple of them did the dishes for me:P

    Now I keep my stuff mostly clean and guys honestly seem put-off when i bring them over and everything’s tidy.

  50.  #50GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    Yes, Tinque… messy & weight are two areas where you just can’t hide your stuff… everyone can see it & many want to judge, dissapprove, comment, laugh, reject, etc.

    Starla, I would love to have a buddy thing on this.

  51.  #51Lyka on November 3, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    It’s Christine Arylo here and I have a question for you that I’ve been thinking about the last few weeks…

    What if we didn’t have to wait to have a million dollars in the bank to feel good about our financial status and security?

    What if you could feel taken care of, and that everything was going to be okay, no matter what?

    And, is that even possible?

    Here’s what I have discovered so far … We ALL have times when we feel freaked out about money. We live in a world that is completely freaked out about money. So it’s easy to get turned upside down and full of worry, anxiety and stress when it comes to your bank account, job status or the state of Wall Street.

    But… honestly, isn’t all this worry such a waste of time and energy? Seriously, all this fear-based hooplah is a total downer!

    I hate when my day gets hijacked by fear sticking it’s nose in my bank account and I bet you do to.

    That’s why next Saturday, I have gathered 4 of my smartest money-minded, miracle making friends – Harvard MBA’s and Phds, Spiritual Ministers, and Lifelong Entrprenuers to join me – and you — for a transformational conversation where we…

    GET REAL about how fear hijacks us through our relationship with money

    GET WISE about how we can make different choices, ones that lead us to MONEY PEACE vs. MONEY MADNESS


    GET INTO ACTION around how we can switch our minds and emotions in the moment from fear to peace when we face financial challenges

    I have a lot of things I could be doing on a Saturday morning, but given the current state of fear out there about money, I can think of nothing more important than to be with you all kicking fear out of our bank accounts and bringing in the truth about MONEY PEACE.

    Join me and my miracle-making friends for a f*r*e*e super empowering, eye-opening, mind-changing call
    on Saturday, November 12th


  52.  #52Camille on November 3, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    Why are all of my comments going to moderation? IM stuck there! LOL

  53.  #53Lyka on November 3, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    Ella – #19:

    Yes and you handled that very well. 🙂

    I guess I was just “visualizing” how it would be to date someone with bad teeth for a long time and having to deal with the slow transformation.

  54.  #54GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    #44 Starla Unbelievable! Amazing! I should let you find men for me? Bc I don’t find these types. (I’ve had a couple of men do dishes for me, both friends. One was hoping/assuming I’d sleep w him.)

    Ironically, I’m compatible with Virgo-Libra cusp men, so they want neatness AND harmony, lol.

  55.  #55GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    #46 Lyka I like this post.

  56.  #56Starla on November 3, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    Cool, Miss Ginger Sky:))))) It feels great to have a buddy for this!
    I am going home tonight and cracking open a beer and organizing all my bills and documents into file folders.

  57.  #57GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    Feels *great* for me too!

    Okay… I just ate some vanilla Macaforce w peanut butter and so on for energy & focus… and am organizing & cleaning out all manner of personal belongings… need to squeeze the gallon of stuff leftover that I need & want to keep down into a quart size… and keep paring it down & categorizing it into small storage boxes etc…

    So onward I go… beer isn’t so good for me, though yummy in summer… but I’ll reward myself with something like that later. I wanna hear about how your filing goes! I love filing… you wanna switch jobs? |she asks with a sly Tom Sawyer grin|

  58.  #58Lyka on November 3, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    Cool, GingerSky! I signed up and won’t be able to listen in on Sat. morning but I’ll catch the recording. I’m interested in having “money peace”, especially these days.

  59.  #59Lyka on November 3, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    The weight thing has been an issue for me years ago. Being short (5′), I can’t gain a lot of weight otherwise I look and feel bad. I’m not into being super skinny either, but I need to check what I eat and exercise daily if I want to keep a healthy weight, which I have. What I want is a well toned body, with just enough muscle definition to show that I work hard to get great results.

    Also, I’m training this girl who wants to lose weight so it wouldn’t look good if I was actually fat, would it? 😉

  60.  #60Lyka on November 3, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    Stop Food Craving “Quick Tip”

    by Andrea Albright

    Here’s a helpful “quick tip” to help you stop food craving, lose weight and give you some peace during this weekend.

    A food craving is your mind’s confusion!

    You may think that your body wants that fat load or that sugar rush, but your body is sending you that craving because it is starving for nutrition.

    Only Eat What Your Food Craving Wants AFTER You Eat A Nutritious ‘Mini-Meal’ First!

    You may find that intense food craving you had before is no longer there… or at least it has been reduced to a craving that you can control.

    Pay attention and watch as your mind-body connection grows stronger every day.

    Love and Light,



  61.  #61Starla on November 3, 2011 at 2:39 pm

    I love my shape but I have fantasies about not having a pudgy gut when I sit. So I actually put myself on a diet the other day. The diet isn’t weight-focused as much as it is health-focused, though…this is how I keep from feeling like a total failure if the pounds don’t come off.

    I have a feeling that by the end of this year I will be looking amazing

  62.  #62mali on November 3, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    Hello my lovely Sirens =)
    I wanted to ask if any of you have a recording of Dr Gray’s seminar from the Art of Love series? It sounds so inspiring, but I’m feeling so sad and frustrated with myself for missing it!

  63.  #63Starla on November 3, 2011 at 3:03 pm

    I went to the grocery store last night and bought only foods that I know won’t cause me inflammation or worsen my chronic health problems.

    I am entertaining going on an even ‘cleaner’ diet for a while.

    and incorporating 20 crunches a day for the next week into my life. I know this isn’t very much but I’ve learned to start really small and consistent or else I’ll do nothing at all.

  64.  #64Lyka on November 3, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    Starla, may I recommend you do both crunches and planks? These will help you even more with losing your gut and firming your muscles.

    If you can, try and hold the plank for a minute. Let me know how you feel about it.

  65.  #65Lyka on November 3, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    Here’s a good example of how to do the plank. You can also do it with your arms fully extended.


  66.  #66tinque on November 3, 2011 at 3:23 pm

    Starla – #44, my point exactly. There are few men who care at all about that stuff.

    Virgos often do, don’t they Gingersky?


  67.  #67Senior Lady Vibe on November 3, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    Hello, world. I am thankful for all.

  68.  #68Starla on November 3, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    Thanks, Lyka! I can incorporate this later

    For now, it’s important to start out with something absolutely manageable, as tiny as it may seem, just for the sake of forming the habit itself.

  69.  #69Camille on November 3, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    Virgos…definitely do…I live with one! LOL

  70.  #70lk on November 3, 2011 at 3:39 pm


    Got an email from 1 CD just now…. but he seemed to just slightly miss everything I said (Ireland vs. Scotland, from vs. about, on & on – just little misunderstandings that make him seem a lazy reader).

    How do I express this in FM w/o being critical???

  71.  #71Starla on November 3, 2011 at 6:18 pm

    I feel like I drove everyone away from posting:'(. so quiet.

  72.  #72Aurora Girl on November 3, 2011 at 6:20 pm

    HI from clear Canadian skies and a pretty moon to shine down on all of us……sending good vibes to all of you……still having an amazing time with LD……it’s working !~ it’s working!~ it’s working!~ all of Rori’s ideas…..the three month marker seems important indeed….not only in this relationship but in tackling negative voices, using FMs….it’s become more habitual for me now….not perfect….not at all but a reliable place to turn…and he is so stepping up to the plate……and there is a love growing here that’s so fine…….

    I still think of my self as wanting to connecting with good men……so he knows that I have men friends and I he has even met some of them……and like my other friends coffee is always a chance to catch up ….but I’m confident and he knows I’m honest….and have an evolved life……but interacting with the other men takes the pressure off in some way ….there’s a freedom in it and yet I can still feel connected to LD in good and intimate and growing ways….all good……

    it works! It so works! and this IS different than what I use to do ….and did I mention it works? lol


  73.  #73Starla on November 3, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    61 SLV

    Me too!

  74.  #74Aurora Girl on November 3, 2011 at 6:24 pm

    are you referring to Dr. John Gray? or other ?

  75.  #75Starla on November 3, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    When I was standing in line today at the department store with an arm-full, the random man behind me left the line without saying anything and came back with a shopping cart a minute later for me to put my stuff in while I waited. How sweet is that!? I was just minding my own business and this happened. I put the stuff in the cart and said wow my arms feel much better, thank u!

    It feels so nice when things like that happen. He seemed so happy that I appreciated it. I think the world needs more chivalry and more appreciation and receptiveness. I’m realizing that a man’s happiness is basically tied to our appreciation and receptiveness to their attempts to offer us what they wish to give. At least when it comes to how happy they are with us.

  76.  #76Ella on November 3, 2011 at 7:08 pm

    Hello Sirens,

    So guess what… CD1 came over to my house this evening.

    Did you hear that this EVENING!!!!

    Yep, he called me up and asked for an evening date. And I didn’t say a thing. After expressing the other day that I still feel unsure and how evening and weekend dates would feel good, I had resolved not to say it again… and to drop my agenda, and respong authentically instead.

    And hey presto… an evening date.

    He brought me red roses and some food. I was cooking some food for me and offered that he could have some too and he brought some stuff along to add.

    And it as a nice evening.

    There was loads of talking, and later some kissing and cuddling.

    And he began to be sexual and I said I don’t want to do that until I feel totally safe. And he said he will not try anything until I let him know I feel safe and ready.

    Mostly I felt really good and safe and melty with him.

    At one point he picked me up suddenly and there was this squelching noise… it sounded exactly like a fart! And actually it was our sking squishing together… but I don’t know if he realised this.

    I bet he thought I farted!!!

    Mortified again!!!

    Why do these awkward things keep happening with this guy??

    I didn’ know whether to say something and I just thought it would sound really lame to say ‘oh by the way that noise was not me farting’, so I kept quiet.

    And I felt worried that maybe it put out some of the passion.

    Having said this he still wanted to stay.

    I said No.

    I felt kinda mean making him go home at one thirty am in the pouring rain… and I knew I was not ready for him to stay.

    I still have NVs saying ‘he is a ladies man… this is what he does with ALL his women’ and that feels awful.

    I don’t know whether to mention this to him… and then I would have to say who told me… and it just feels like opening a can of worms… and yet it bothers me.

    Tinque can you suggest anything here about this?

    Oh, and finally, the weirdest thing I noticed… now that he was actually here, being real, being him, and no longer just oiy of my reach, I notice I actually felt less attracted, well after a few hours…

    And more critical of him!


    I know these are my issues, and I really want to work through them and do real…

    Don’t know if it will be with him.

    Oh, I feel a bit turned off actually, just a bit… just now… not earlier.

    I am sure it will pass.

    It is the ladies man thing. I feel turned off with the thought that this is what he does… with all women, he knows how to touch them and make them feel safe so they will trust him.

    But so far everything I have doubted him on has turned out to be true… he has come through.

    Hmmm, confused bunny here.

    I guess maybe I feel less comfortable with snuggling up on the bed before I have been taken out and courted more.

    Yes that is probably it too.

    And having said all that he is lovely and I appreciate that he came over, brought stuff and flowers, cuddled me all night, complimented me all night and wants to please me.

    Tonight he said I am amazing. And he just wants to be with me.

    And he just wants to be close to me.

    And it felt so good to hold me…


  77.  #77Ella on November 3, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    Sirens feeling so unsexy about the farting noise!!!

    Keep comparing myself in my head to the imaginary women that I believe he is seeing…

    You know like I imagine all these glamourous, beautiful women, and then him thinking of me as the one who farts!


    And ick!


  78.  #78Starla on November 3, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    Ginger Sky,
    How’s your organizing task going for the evening?

    I am combing thru these papers. I lost interest in the beer before even opening it. Maybe another night I’ll drink it, lol. It feels good to see how much paper I am purging from this house of mine! It’s piling up:)

  79.  #79Ella on November 3, 2011 at 7:28 pm

    Sometimes I just wonder how I get myself in these fixes…

    You know my life sometimes feels a bit like a comedy spoof to me!

    You know what though, when CD1 and I were eating dinner… we were talking about famous people and names and I realised I wanted to bring up feeling awkward when he saw his name in my internet search history.

    So I said ‘I felt so embarrassed when …. ‘

    And you know what he just smiled and laughed and reached over and squeezed my leg. Then he just teased me a little and it wasn’t an issue anymore…

    Just like that!


    And when I brought it up it seemed to release some tension somehow and we both relaxed.

    Maybe the farty noise is not such a big deal either…

    And I just feel afraid that he will no longer find me attractive!

    Vagina farts I can handle, and even feel Rockstar about because that is just something that happens… and I feel mortified to think he thought I did an ordinary fart so early on in dating…

    Would you all feel the same or would it not bother you?

    Just curious.

    Maybe I can be Rockstar about this too…

  80.  #80Starla on November 3, 2011 at 7:50 pm

    Okay, I am feeling really paranoid about not hearing from CF. He did call earlier when I was at work but left no message. What if he was calling to say he doesn’t want to see me anymore?

    And now I’m thinking of all the reasons he might not want to see me anymore, and feeling really insecure about my appearance, etc.

  81.  #81Emerson on November 3, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    Ok I am still catching up on mucho mucho posts…so behind over here…busy working! But I’m excited to read what all the sirens have to say about weight…
    I have about 20 pounds to lose…argh..its so hard.
    Guys think I’m hot anyway, lol but I’m not happy like this. I forgot how it feels to be skinnnyyyy….

  82.  #82Emerson on November 3, 2011 at 8:07 pm

    Ella you are so cute
    Don’t worry about the fart
    lol lol lol

  83.  #83Sweetpea on November 3, 2011 at 8:09 pm

    My phone is still messed up so although I’ve been following the blog, I can’t post. I feel kind of growly about it, but not so much as I used to.

    I had a really tough couple of days and the last post really spoke to what I was going through. Lots of MY issues rising to the surface and I very near reverted to my old patterns and kicked MM to the curb for not calling when he said he would. I mean, it was really, really hard for me to bring myself down. I finally sent him a simple “gnite” text and got an apology, explanation and promise to call the next day, but I still was feeling angry, resentful, insecure and a host of other things. Through hours of journaling (and writer’s cramp) I finally was able to sleep, but still not feeling great about it. But I do feel extremely proud that I noticed and KNEW it was me, not him – such a little thing, it’s a bit embarrassing, but seriously used to be very hard for me to manage so I would just end it. Wow! Have I ever grown. And…I’m still growing.

    So the next day I still wasn’t feeling great about things – most importantly myself, so did more journaling. I’m noticing that even my journaling these days is all about my feelings and not blaming. I’m especially proud of that!

    Finally I started to feel better and worked through so much – I’ve been feeling so tired and drained the last couple of days because of it – it was A LOT. It took all of that to even appreciate his sincere and sweet apology. It all paid off though, because he did call and by then I didn’t even feel a need to bring anything up. We had a great talk, as usual and I didn’t feel vaguely unimportant like I had the previous week or so – which was awesome! It ended with him telling me he would call me later and when he didn’t call as early as expected, he sent me a text asking if he could call after practice and apologizing because things had gotten busy with the girls. Which was really sweet and made me feel even better that I had gotten past wanting to make a big deal out of it. Then, when he did call back, he asked what I want for Christmas! Awww!

    I know it doesn’t “mean anything” according to Rori’s timeline, but it feels great to know he’s looking forward and planning on having me in his future. Plus it was just really sweet (and if I say “sweet” one more time I may fall over from a saccharine overload, lol).

    Off to catch up on the last couple hours of comments now.

  84.  #84Emerson on November 3, 2011 at 8:10 pm

    Okaaay…so I responded to Ocean CD on the website! I got so excited to see he replied…but he doesn’t indicate that he remembers me at all…

    Should I bring it up if he doesn’t? If we plan to meet!?
    He liked me and asked me out again when we met before…so I think he’d be stoked but is that just being weird?

    Shouldn’t I say something?

    BTW, FO3 CD has completely poofed….

    And in other news, I have a date on Saturday with one I will call ParisCD…nothing too exciting but maybe friend material and just a really nice guy…I met him at a coffee house one day when I was hanging out and CDing myself! He’s interesting…but no attraction, but I will give it a chance.

  85.  #85Emerson on November 3, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    Ella he prob knows it was not a real fart, so don’t worry about it, that’s what I mean…LOL you are so funny

  86.  #86Sweetpea on November 3, 2011 at 8:14 pm


    That is soo touching! I agree with you that we need more chivalry – which is why I appreciate Rori’s stuff so much. It’s really refreshing to me to have my “girl tiara” on rather than my “boy hat” most of the time. Even though I’ve always appreciated chivalry and expressed gratitude for it, I find I’m a lot more comfortable with it now than I used to be – especially in my personal relationships. I also find I experience it a lot more.

    Have you been experiencing that as well?

  87.  #87Starla on November 3, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    78 sweetpea

    yeah, all the time. every day some man, somewhere, treats me like i’ve got a pretty tiara on. and it makes him feel good.

    i thank rori for this:D

  88.  #88Emerson on November 3, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    Ugh, I wish I didn’t do this, but I was feeling piney and called and left a message for Recycled the other day. I sooo know he is bad news. He’s such a womanizer and emotionally immature/unavailable.

    You know what ? He has not called me back. I don’t even care that much, but my ego does. LIke why would I let him get the last knife twist in…I should not let it get to me.

    I’m moving on from him anyway!!

    I still feel lil bit piney about him tho…physically miss him. blech.

    I have to remember all the things I don’t like about Recycled. One time a long time ago I started crying, and he told me to stop crying because I’m not a little girl anymore. How mean! Most men would console me or at least try to say something nice, even if it was akward. He was not even trying to comfort me.

    He doesn’t do well with tears, I’ve notice. It’s like he gets meaner.

    I don’t like that. Other men I;ve dated have melted or consoled me, even if they are “mad” at me and we’re fighting…

    I don’t want to attract this to my life anymore. I want a man who is nice to me.

    Also, Recycled twists things around sometimes and doesn’t make sense when he explains things/changes stories/// this creates confusion which is his modus operandi with women so he can keep control of them wiht all his lies and BS!!!!

    Because he’s a liar and a womanizer and a cheater!!!!!!!!!

    whoa…I just dumped alot out on here..

  89.  #89Sweetpea on November 3, 2011 at 8:18 pm


    If CD1 was such a ladies man, most likely he would have moved on to an easier target by not. And even if he is, I’m completely convinced that I could turn a player around (and nearly did, even last year when I was relatively new to Rori) using Rori’s tools and feel confident that you could too. Even players are looking for love and the “right” relationship.

    I think you are right about this being your stuff. I know this is a lot of what I was dealing with a couple of days earlier in the week and it WAS all me. But it’s very hard to determine whether it’s your intuition or NVs, is it not?

  90.  #90Emerson on November 3, 2011 at 8:21 pm

    Gawsh I had an older male colleague tell me there are no good guys out there…telling me good luck and they are few and far between…there’s no good ones left….he was being really negative and pessimistic…it kind of got under my skin and made me feel panicky..
    Then I thought no, he’s wrong. Then I thought oh no…maybe he’s right!!! But I chose to block out his comment as just being pessimistic. He is kinda.

  91.  #91Sweetpea on November 3, 2011 at 8:23 pm


    Ohh! That feels bad to read, but I know where you’re coming from. You are absolutely, fantastically fabulous! Why on EARTH would he not want to see you anymore?

    So many Sirens going through the insecure, questioning I just made it through. I bet I’ll have to do it more before I get completely through it, but for now I made it through the darkness and feel confident it will be easier to dig myself out of the hole if/when it hits me again.

  92.  #92Emerson on November 3, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    81 Wow sweetpea I know this was not directed at me…but omg I do agree with you…however, I think a lot of men that are “players” are emotionally immature and incapable ofhaving a normal relationship. Other “players” are just going thru a phase maybe…I don’t know….

    I thought I could turn Recycled “around” because he’d expressed such strong strong feelings for me in the past…and I don’t know what happened…he was with other women besides me probably and I hate that thought.

  93.  #93Emerson on November 3, 2011 at 8:25 pm

    hmm I think I became too much of a challenge for Recycled when I started to outgirl him….I think he needs a mommy or he needs to kinda be the feminine energy…

  94.  #94Sweetpea on November 3, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    Ohhh! I was really excited to read this post this morning, too! I’ve been feeling like I want to really help people with their self-esteem issues, because it’s something I’ve been pretty good at with my friends. Seems to me most other “problems” really resolve around self-esteem and although I LOVE fashion consulting, it seems kind of shallow and just not as helpful as I feel I want to be.

    So I’ve been looking into life coaching and have been trying to decide what “niche” I’d like to pursue. A few days ago, I thought, well why not do image and life coaching? It ties in with what I’ve already started, but will fulfill the need I have to help people with their inner self-esteem demons. This post kind of felt like a confirmation that indeed, it would be a very rewarding thing, so off I go with it! Yahoo!

  95.  #95Emerson on November 3, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    My boss was praising a coworker in a meeting today and I felt jealous…she was revelling in it, and maybe deserves it…
    But he never does that for ME. I work hard too…and he kinda made a joke about me earlier in the meeting…and I felt uncomfortable..
    Like I’m the joke and she is the real important one. Just my NVs talkign and me venting.
    I felt jealous and invalidated though. 🙁

  96.  #96Emerson on November 3, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    My boss was praising a coworker in a meeting today and I felt jealous…she was revelling in it, and maybe deserves it…
    But he never does that for ME. I work hard too…and he kinda made a joke about me earlier in the meeting…and I felt uncomfortable..
    Like I’m the joke and she is the real important one. Just my NVs talkign and me venting.
    I felt jealous and invalidated though. 🙁

  97.  #97Emerson on November 3, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    I dunno why that just posted two times…

  98.  #98Sweetpea on November 3, 2011 at 8:34 pm


    I don’t mind at all if you want to read and comment on comments not directed to you. I always feel hopeful that what I will say will resonate with other Sirens too and I feel grateful when they do.

    My player was immature too, but the funny thing is, he really has a good heart and I know his sister. So I happen to know that despite his “playing” he’s still hoping to find someone to settle down with.

    Not the guy for me, but for someone.

  99.  #99Ella on November 3, 2011 at 8:34 pm


    Yea probably…

    That is what I keep thinking too, like so what if he is a player… he is just wanting to be loved and accepted like every other human being…

    And I do usually feel confident that I have with he needs etc…

    Very confident in fact.

    And its just the sexual stuff. Like when he gets sexual towards me it feels good and also I start to feel panicked…

    Like I ‘think’ if he ever ‘has’ me then he will have acomplished his goal and he will just move on…

    And I feel terribly insecure about this.

    And I wouldn’t know where to start expressing this, or even if I should.

    Still there is no hurry.

    I can’t take the anxiety out by having strong boundaries… by looking after myself and waiting to see him step up and until I feel totally safe before allowing it to progress sexually.

    I don’ have to do anything I don’t want to… and yet the tricky bit is I do want him like that too…

    And yet I need to feel secure first.

    It is happening gradually.

  100.  #100Ella on November 3, 2011 at 8:38 pm

    Know what I just realised… I am missing it!!!

    I am missing the fact that CD1 has been pouring love and affection at me all week.

    On Monday when he helped me and then we were cuddling and looking at the fields I felt SOOOO loved and so connected.

    And today it is Thursday and he has showed up with Red roses, cuddles and an evening date!!!



    And here is me droning on about other stuff and insecurities.

    I can see the red roses now.

    So beautiful!

    And he arranged them for me too. And he has cuddled me and kissed me, grabbed me, held me, lifted me, stroked me all evening.

    I have been topped up with love this week.

    And I feel happy.


  101.  #101Sweetpea on November 3, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    Re: 90 – That being said, I wouldn’t recommend for anyone to go out looking to reform a player. But for me, feeling confident that it doesn’t really matter if he’s a player or not (because I used to worry about that a lot, with all of my ex-boyfriends and more recent CDs that I’ve developed some feelings for), because if he’s “my one” I have the tools needed to overcome it really helps with the NVs.

    I truly am convinced of it though, it’s not just a tool I use to make me feel better. Maybe some guys are immature and not capable of having a good relationship, if so they won’t be around long. And I really believe I’ve outgrown attracting players now. Although those nasty little friggin’ NVs had me questioning MM the other night. I feel amused by it now, but hell! This personal growth stuff sure is hard sometimes. But so, so, soooooo worth it! Because I’m worth it!

  102.  #102Starla on November 3, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    Thanks for the reassurance, sweetpea.

    I get these NV “gut feelings” about “bad” things happening

    but they’re generally wrong.

    i should trust that this one is wrong too.

    but i feel afraid=/

    Not as afraid as I used to feel, though! I have come so far! I am hugging on myself and taking care of me.

  103.  #103Sweetpea on November 3, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    @ 92


    I just had to comment on your situation because I really identify with you. This guy seems like he doesn’t want you unhappy though. That seems a good sign. I’m not saying to invalidate your feelings because I don’t know if he’s a player or not – it might be your intuition.

    One thing that helps me, is to ask myself, so… “what if he is a player?” I imagine the most horrible scenario I can come up with. This seems not only to alleviate the fear, but to help me know whether it’s my fears or my intuition talking to me.

  104.  #104Ella on November 3, 2011 at 8:46 pm

    Oh and you know what else… he may or may not be the man for me… and this is all good practice.


    So WHAT if he is a ‘ladies’ man, what does that even mean anyway?

    Its all a front… another way to hide who we are and avoid intimacy, whilst feeling desperate for it, because we are afraid to show who we really are.

    Its just another mask like all the others we all use.

    And you know what else… if anyone looked into it I could be labelled as the female equivalent, I mean I am constantly dating and in the company of men.

    What of it!

    Although the only thing is to date me, and for it to continue to move forward, all his attention would need to be on ME!

    He he he.


    And you know what this week I don’t see how he can have had much spare for anyone else tbh.

    And yet sometimes I still feel insecure about it.

    Ho hum… back to taking care of my insecurities.

    That’s ok, gotta love them… they looking out for me just like my NVs.

    And anyway I am a SIREN!


    Don’t want to fall into feeling I have to ‘win’ though… to prove I am best.

    I read one of Rori’s other posts that talked about this guy she dated whose life was ‘littered with friends who used to be girlfriends’ that is how it seems to me his life could be…

    I don’t know.

    I do know that he has shut the heck up about other woman since I told him I do not want to hear it!!

  105.  #105Starla on November 3, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    Just for balance with all of the NV’s surrounding why I’m not hearing from CF, I’m going to suppose some less icky possibilities:

    -he thinks *i* want space and doesn’t want to scare me off
    -he is struggling financially and figuring out how to change this
    -he is considering major career changes/more education
    -he knows whenever we chat for 5 minutes, he ends up over here for hours because we’re nuts like that <3
    -he is maturely and carefully taking the time to decide if he wants me as much as he thinks he does, so that he can start ring shopping;) hehe
    -he is having family problems

    all of these things are stuff i can handle. a little communication after the fact and presto! not usually a problem a second time.

    really he's probably just freaking the f*ck out because he realizes i am the love of his life and needs to carefully consider where he's going with this 😀

    ^^^^i know i sound cocky saying that but it's probably true:P

  106.  #106Ella on November 3, 2011 at 8:48 pm


    I reckon CF will call and all will be well.

    I can so relate to how you are feeling.

    You said he tried to call today though right… don’t panic.

    Breath, CD – you are doing good.


  107.  #107Sweetpea on November 3, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    @ 94

    I get the “bad gut feelings” too. I’ve witnessed your growth here and it feels so good to me to see. I can understand your feeling insecure about the lack of contact. I get the same way sometimes. Like you though, they’re getting easier to sink into and then they seem to just float away.

    Thank goodness all this stuff gets easier. I’d hate for all this stuff to be as hard subsequent times as it was the first time!

  108.  #108T-Girl on November 3, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    I’m having a lot of fun at my belly dance class but I wonder if it will get easier – I feel like such a clutz. Tonight we worked with veils and that feel sireny!

    Last night my guy melted my heart. I hadn’t seen him for 2 days which is kind of normal during the workweek, and as soon as he saw me he hugged and kissed me and said “I missed you”. Mmmmmm. Still not the 3 words I have been longing to hear but I will take them!

  109.  #109T-Girl on November 3, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    Ella, you are too funny! I’m sure he realized what the noise was. Either that or maybe he is thinking the same thing: “I wonder if SHE thinks I farted?”

  110.  #110Sweetpea on November 3, 2011 at 8:54 pm

    Yay Starla!!

    Yay Ella!!

    Time for this Siren to run off to the Land of Nod (I have a hot lunch date with MM tomorrow). Still feeling drained from my walk through the darkness of my heart and soul the other day.

    Sheesh! I’m glad I made it through that (in tact and feeling better, stronger, happier).

    Maybe I’ll get to go to California for Christmas! How awesome would that be!!!

  111.  #111Starla on November 3, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    Sweet dreams, sweetpea!

  112.  #112Tiffany on November 3, 2011 at 9:10 pm

    @Starla – yeah, you should come to California for x-mas! Come visit me! Lol :))))

  113.  #113GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    #60 Tinque & #44 Starla Yes, Tinque, right on and boy how they do… though surprisingly many are also very sensualistic and earthy (which I adore, and also airy cultured easygoing and refined with the Libra, be still my heart… this combo is like warm chestnuts drizzled with honey for me, can’t get enough of that vibe), and they are not so tidy themselves… it’s still their pet peeve for the woman to be too cluttery/messy, I guess. Makes them highly mistrustful, uncomfortable, offended, destabilized, and feeling like Rori described, like they and their needs aren’t being honored and cared about in the relationship by me. I get it.

    And am absolutely *fascinated* by Starla’s men who get a little annoyed that her place is tidy… this is like a window onto a whole new world for me, lol!

    #70 Starla, I am still so far behind, but I moved some stuff around to better places and sorted through several small to medium boxes of papers etc, and am glad to report I did so rather quickly and efficiently for the most part, able to focus well… and that almost all contents of said boxes went in the trash. Yesss!

    (I did procrastinate a lot today though… triggered by the instability of my situation… I have to confess… made real progress though, and it felt good and I had no sense of conflict in throwing away papers. Knew what to keep ans what to let go without confusion/resistance.)

    AND to keep a long and personal story short and discreet for the moment (esp since I need to be in bed, 9am meeting in morning and could be an intense one perhaps), the leaning back is making improvements I never dreamed. Prompted suddenly and divinely out of literally nowhere to try something in leaning back with utter honesty and *vulnerability*, (after having practiced lots with men on OKC), not sure if it would go down like a lead balloon or soar a bit… my situation here became less tense and way more comfortable and calm… he commented outwardly several times on how I had shifted etc, and he felt more comfortable and safe etc… nuff said for now. All I can say is WOW. Amazing.

    Team Lean Back and WomanCleanThyBoxes is doing very well it seems tonight. xox Starla!

  114.  #114GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    Oh, and tonight my mother said, “You need to take care of YOU for a change…” I said, “Yeah, I’m getting some help with how to do that. And it’s working.” Lol

  115.  #115Starla on November 3, 2011 at 9:33 pm

    tiffany 104 that was sweetpea
    traveling for the holidays sounds awesome!

  116.  #116GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    #88 Emerson I SO get this. Am going thru the same here. Am being made light of and criticized carelessly by a “new kid in town” …usually not at all concerned over this kind of thing, but when it becomes a threat to stability/security/peace and what I believe I *really* should be doing here, it gets really triggering. Good chance to practice *all kinds* of things… |ak, sigh, kicks tires|

  117.  #117Starla on November 3, 2011 at 9:47 pm

    Ginger Sky, nice progress it sounds like! I filed all my bills and documents tonight. Still so much paper left to deal with! I’m hoarding all my school work and resources, so I’m getting them organized into binders for my browsing pleasure next.

    Sooo ever since I one day snapped out of being the world’s worst slob, every man I’ve had over has IMMEDIATELY said something along the lines of “woah, your apartment is freaky clean” upon entering..and then they get weird about having me over to their own place. even though i have piles of books and stuff that are awaiting shelves that i have yet to purchase. I point this out to them and they’re like “but it’s a tidy pile.”

    Honestly my house could be a lot cleaner. I know where the dirt hides. muahaha. i think most men just don’t even notice. does not register on their radar.


    I feel more comfortable with sloppy people…either way i could care less how anyone lives. if they end up living with me one day then we’ll deal with it. i honestly have no problem with a disgustingly messy man as long as he has no problem leaving me at home all day while he works so i can keep the house nice:P

    I will clean and sing all day la la la


    sounds like a nice life (to me)

  118.  #118Starla on November 3, 2011 at 9:54 pm

    I made the decision tonight to always take 1 hour for myself to put on lotion, tweeze my eyebrows, paint my nails, shave my legs, whatever, as my pre-bed ritual. I’m tired of going to bed feeling frumpy. I want to get up in the morning and be primped and happy. I hate walking out the door feeling ashamed when my fingernails need care or when my skin feels super dry or my eyebrows could use a lil tweezing or if my pants hike up, i will be showing HAIRY legs (ahhh i have nightmares about this for real!)

    I think this will make a huge difference in my quality of life and I’m going to insist that my schedule accommodate this.

    I just wanted to share, because I am finding that exploring ways of taking supreme care of myself is having a huge, positive impact on all areas of my life, especially how i experience relationships with men.

    It’s a huge game changer.

  119.  #119GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 9:54 pm

    #39 Tinque I just found this… wow… could this really be true… I feel all kinds of tension melting away in my solar plexus… aaaah… men who don’t get triggered over housecleaning… sounds like paradise land.

    I believe I’d happily clean all the time if I disconnect my sense of approval and rejection from others from the whole issue…

    If I didn’t feel my worthiness and love-a-bility was connected to my *performance*, I’d perform a whole lot better! And I know it’s my stuff, and that that disconnection and untanglement needs to come from within.

    And that performance-based is masculine, and I am a Siren.

    (Been thinking one reason me & NSM conflict is bc he seemed so secure even in his sweet neuroticness, and not (coldly) performance oriented and I fell in love with that… but he’s revealed this insecure, posturing super-performance attitude lately… not for me… yes, Tinque, you have helped me now vibe and see and feel what it’s like if I’m with a man I fit with… what a concept.

    I think I’m getting it. ?

    Wow, I feel like I just made a huge, hemisphere-covering giant leap. Thank you all.

  120.  #120GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 9:58 pm

    #110 Starla Yes! this is a huge game-changer for sure. I recall when I realized I soometimes need a good 30 minutes to ge ready for bed, and was given a hard time about it… and that my lovely time in bed is as beautiful and honor-worthy a part of my life as any other event I spend time in doing.

    You’ll sleep much better if you lavish yourself with these simple needs… it’s kind of old world to me, in the best possible way. A sensibility we’ve lost in our culture, but which used to be part of being civilized and sane?

  121.  #121GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    Goodnight ladies… more tomorrow w you, Starla, from WomanCleanThyBoxes on the East Coast… la la la la, lol! Indeed. I love it. I may not have time to be on here much for a few days, but hoping to get away for a lil check in.

    Love to all Sirens… I feel so deliciously and inexplicably safe in my vulnerability tonight… what a change.

  122.  #122Starla on November 3, 2011 at 10:06 pm

    night gs!!

  123.  #123GingerSky on November 3, 2011 at 10:14 pm

    Okay, I can’t resist one more GingerSky advice nugget before retiring, fwiw:

    Catnip gets rid of farts pretty well for most people. Make tea of it (the food-grade kind, not any from the kitty section or pet store). Don’t know what I’d do without it… even works on gas so bad it gives stomach cramps, for most people. If i eat certain foods I just go ahead and make some for aperitif.

    But adult guys really don’t seem to care much imo… like Tinque says about cleaning, lol. Most guys think it’s cute if we fart bc it’s so incongruous to girliness I believe.

  124.  #124Lucy on November 4, 2011 at 2:02 am

    Hmm. I don’t know… In my experience, men DO get turned on in similar ways to women… They get physically turned on by our intelligence and humor and heart, not just our bodies. My current relationship is especially this way… maybe we are unusual? Sometimes it seems like we are maybe… a kinda hot fun brainy chemistry btwn us. He really gets turned on when I’m being cleverly funny… or deeply compassionate… or exceptionally insightful/smart.

  125.  #125marina on November 4, 2011 at 3:23 am

    Hello dear Sirens,

    Just passing by here….

    @ SLV (from the previous thread) I am feeling curious about your vagabonding book (the one Timothy Ferris recommends!

    I just lend his ‘The 4hour workweek’ to a friend of mine).
    And on topic: Timothy Ferris’ ‘The 4 hour work body ‘ is a great book too!

    My weight has never really been an issue. Especially not after I started climbing 2 times a week 5 years ago (yes, you get a little toned, but just a little :D.

    My weight goes from 70 to 74 kilo’s (depending on how much chocolate I ate before 😉
    I am kinda tall (1.82 m) so I suppose this must be my right weight.

    I like it when I put on a little weight and get more curvy/bigger breasts and butt, but I feel more sexy when I am around 70 kilo’s and my tummy is flat.

    Leo Babauta (zenhabits.net) and The FLYlady are my heroes too Starla and GingerSky!
    Feels great to see you becoming buddies!
    GingerSky, babystep your way through it!
    Don’t crash and burn.
    You can do anything for 15 minutes 🙂
    I am so proud of you!

    ExBF4 loved it when I told him about FLYing and the FLYlady and we would make house cleaning fun.

    Before I discovered FLYlady he once told me my bathroom really needed cleaning and I said, ‘How’ and he showed me…haha, so some guys DO notice!

    The Sun is shining here!

    I am getting a free skin analysis from Weleda at the whole foods store 🙂


  126.  #126marina on November 4, 2011 at 3:29 am

    Oops, Timothy Ferris’ book is called
    ‘The four hour body”.


  127.  #127Lyka on November 4, 2011 at 3:36 am

    Starla – #62:

    That’s cool! But please let me know whenever you’re ready to incorporate planks into your routine, because I promise you you will see a difference faster than if you only do crunches. Planks will work your whole core, not to mention your whole body.

  128.  #128sammie sighs on November 4, 2011 at 3:37 am

    Loved reading this blog you Sirens crack me up which I am most thankful for.. well I sat on my NVS yesterday and last night scince I found out that Mr P added his wife on fb YES HIS WIFE they havent been together for 14 years and she wont pay for the remainder of the divorce she wants him too and his payed most of it already and says no….anyway they live in different countires and shes in a realtionship but what triggered me is seeing her on his fb same last name I feel like I am the other woman because it brought home to me that they are still married!!! So bit unsure how to react at the mo!!……

  129.  #129sammie sighs on November 4, 2011 at 3:40 am

    # and I know Mr P will ask me whats up and I dont want to push him away but I feel bit yuck about it all not sure what to do even though shes lived with guys and he has had lots relationships it still feels wrong like its his wife …………..how do I deal/approach this without him thinking im just jealous???

  130.  #130Lyka on November 4, 2011 at 3:42 am

    Ella – #68:

    OMG, that’s funny! lol! I would’ve just started laughing and cover my mouth! I’m sure you both would’ve cracked up!

    But seriously, don’t worry about it, bodily odor/noises are totally natural and we all have/make them, whether we want it or not! 🙂

    For example, my sweetie doesn’t mind kissing me in the morning and at first, I was totally self-conscious about my morning breath but he kept saying he didn’t mind and that it wasn’t that bad. His breath is not that bad either so it’s all good. In any case, I bought some Tic Tacs and will keep them handy just in case.

  131.  #131Daria on November 4, 2011 at 3:52 am

    omgosh i forgot about teh invisible fleas here

    i was just at a gf’s house and i think from her cats i got them on me

    plus they are on my eyelashes and they keep itching.

    i don’t know how to heal about being judgemental about some people’s level of cleanliness

    in their house


    i don’t want to be judgemental

    and i feel embarassed to think of myself as a clean freak

    and i don’t think i am

    actually i think they are less than me taste wise cuz of their house

    ‘i would never let my house get this way’

    i think my mom would be horrified

    and i FEEL disgusted in there…

    like i can’t relax and my skin and organs keep pinching


    and i FEEL that way

    and i don’t want to!

    and yet i feel grossed out!

    and i don’t want to be judgemental!!!

    i don’t know what to ‘DO”!

    and these people seem pretty ok with how thier house is

    the inivisble fleas don’t bother them

    but now they’er on me and i hope they don’t infest my hosue

    although i don’t think it will cuz teh level of cleanliness is much higher

    and i feel MAD to be put around icky feeling ness


    and how will i deal to move otu

    what if i run across one of these peopel

    to live with

    and it bothers me!!!

    and i feel embarassed it bothers me cuz i want to be totally not judgemental


    i feel guilty

    and i feel andgry and sad too

    that my eyes feel itchy

    i feel ‘urgent’ to get a hold of some apple cider vinegar and take a bath


    and i feel so unattractive with fleas

    i feel afraid taht i will ‘infect’ any guy that gets sexual with me

    this feels icky 🙁

    i want to heal this i want to find the gem in this

    thank u

  132.  #132Lyka on November 4, 2011 at 3:52 am

    GingerSky – #115:

    Ok, I’m a bit embarrassed to mention this here, but I’m a girl and I don’t mind when my sweetie farts. But he actually makes sure to walk away from me when he does, though. At this point, it just became an inside joke between us.

    Well, I guess now that you ladies know about it, it’s not an inside joke anymore…:/

    Oh, well…

  133.  #133Daria on November 4, 2011 at 3:58 am

    ino other news i came across a lyric in a lil wayne song where he say ‘girl i’ll eat you till you cry’

    and i want that!

    i really liked that that would feel amazing

    emotional release


    that turned me on and i was able to touch /MYSELF in a loving way thinking of that as my intention

    Such a difference in focus on my body

    and i really want a man who wants to do that for me (and can)

    i really like that, just when i thought i was losing interest somewhat in that kinda sexual thing just cuz i

    was getting well didn’t have a clear emotional vision for it

    and now i get it and i want it like that!

    if that’s possible and i think it is i want that

    i want a man to want to do that for me

    i feel so delighted with this yum yum yum

    this is what i want in my relationship

  134.  #134Daria on November 4, 2011 at 3:59 am

    i would cry cuz i feel moved that someone would pay so much loving pleasurable attention to me and i can actually relax and know i am loved and being paid attention to right now

    omg that woudl feel sooo good me likey!!

  135.  #135Daria on November 4, 2011 at 4:03 am

    i was going to catch the bus but instead accepted a ride from a stranger who waved to me while i was crossing the street

    he also gave me a sandwich

    he will take me out one day soon

  136.  #136Lyka on November 4, 2011 at 4:07 am

    Daria, I feel uncomfortable and afraid reading that. Please be careful.

  137.  #137Daria on November 4, 2011 at 4:09 am

    ouch pain in tummy after thoughts of more uncleanlinrss

    frrl suprised to see this topic had come up earlier on the blog

  138.  #138Daria on November 4, 2011 at 4:13 am

    am i a hypocrite cuz i won’t kill spiders but cant deal with invisible fleas?

    am i unnatural

    i don’t wan this ‘issue’ to tie in with judgemt!

    i just want o care for my health and wellbeing without judgemetn

    and i DIDNT feel godo there

    and i feel mad about the cat poop just stting there

    and i fele pist that im attracting friends with these habits

    like 4 of them!


    my house is super clean even tho im messy with clothes

    and theres dust, which i thought was awful, and is damn invisible compared to that


    and my sisters house is so clean!

    voice: “how can people live like this!”

    apparently they can’
    and i dont watn to judge!

    ught but i dont feel good there!

    id on’t want to be different, and i Do want to be different


    am feeling tired

    adn theres still crawly feeling on me

  139.  #139Daria on November 4, 2011 at 4:16 am

    Lyka – sorry to hear you feel that way!

    i really enjoy living my life led by my intuition

    i feel a bit defensive,

    im actually feeling really happy about strangers offering me rides when i need them, and about meeting new men who will help me out and about

    it feels wonderful!

  140.  #140Daria on November 4, 2011 at 4:17 am

    i have met hundreds of men off the internet,

    so meeting someone out on the street feels pretty comfortable to me

  141.  #141Daria on November 4, 2011 at 4:34 am

    mmm today i decided to paint myself with love at all my lil itches

    so i touched myself with love on my face, and also my hair

    it felt so good!

    and the guy that was around definitely noticed!

    also i was thinkinga bout my body and how when i see myself in the mirror i think im so amazing and i feel


    and i feel HAPPY

    i feel GOOD looking at myself in the mirror

    its a fun activity for me that lifts my vibe, its something i could do on and on and on

    and i was imagining how it can be like that for anybody, its like having each cell have a lil light for being

    amazing Goddess, and just turning on all the cells

    its so easy to be sensually attractive doing that, and it’s not reallya bout the ‘shape’ so much

    although after getting used to having cells turned on the shape gently transforms as well

    i just have this beautiful way of admiring and feeling a love and comfort and joy at seeing myself and it shows up

  142.  #142mali on November 4, 2011 at 4:39 am

    @66 Aurora Girl- I am indeed! =)

  143.  #143Lyka on November 4, 2011 at 5:10 am

    Daria, I don’t know why you’re feeling defensive about what I said. I’m just concerned that you’re accepting rides from strangers, not to mention the sandwich. Your mom never told you not to accept candies from strangers? 😉

    Anyway, it’s your life, you’re old enough to know what you’re doing, I guess.

  144.  #144Daria on November 4, 2011 at 5:20 am

    Lyka – thank you.

    it doesn’t feel good to have beliefs and fears imposed on me. i feel put off really

    i feel very happy accepting rides or food from people I meet as long as it feels good for me

    I actually like this guy and will be going on a date with him soon.

  145.  #145Lyka on November 4, 2011 at 5:21 am

    Not imposing, just saying.

  146.  #146Daria on November 4, 2011 at 5:22 am

    I’m feeling defensive because I’m getting triggered to think that my decisions are not good or soemthing

    that i should do more like someone else thinks and not accept a ride or a sandwich even though for me that was not the decision i wanted to make

    i feel pist off really

    i feel pist off and judged

    i don’t want people all in my business judging me and imposing their bullshit on me

    they can make their own decisions, and turn down rides and sandwiches

    and i will take my ride and sandwich thank you

  147.  #147Daria on November 4, 2011 at 5:23 am

    im just saying, too

    i don’t want someone judging me and my decisions and beign all in my business like they know better than me what decisions i should make for my life

    i feel pist off

  148.  #148Daria on November 4, 2011 at 5:31 am

    sorry for the ‘imposing their bullshit’ comment. i just read that and felt bad.

    i don’t want to judge and call other people’s beliefs bullshit

    cuz it’s not bullshit

    just their way of seeing things

    and i feel good inside that they care about me

    even though i feel judged and misunderstood

    i appreciate Lyka the honesty about how you felt

    i am aware that it’s a common belief that that is the ‘right’ way to do things for some people

    and i don’t feel good that way

    i feel better to be WAY open and adventurous

    and to trust myself and my intuition

    i feel really happy about having the ability to not operate from those beliefs that this is not good or safe

    i feel happy and surprised and alive each time i do meet someone new and it feels fun and magical

    i really like that about life

  149.  #149Lyka on November 4, 2011 at 5:35 am

    Wow, Daria, I’m sorry you’re feeling that way. If you’re comfortable with your decisions you take about your life, logically you shouldn’t be that bothered about what I think then, right?

    Again, I don’t want to tell you what to do, I’m just concerned, that’s all.

  150.  #150Femininewoman on November 4, 2011 at 5:40 am

    RE 124 Lyka many guys don’t feel comfortable or like a team with a woman until some of those normal bodily functions take place when each other are around. I believe it is one of the ways that relationships move out of the realm of superficiality into reality.

  151.  #151Lyka on November 4, 2011 at 5:41 am

    Daria, I am not judging you. I guess I am not used to dealing with someone as opened as you are around strangers. I know I wouldn’t accept a sandwich from a stranger, but that’s just me.

  152.  #152Daria on November 4, 2011 at 5:44 am

    Lyka – thanks. well you’re right, i guess i don’t feel totally comfortable …

    i often feel on edge that i’m being judged, and there’s NV’s in my head, and i feel upset when i feel judged

    it reminds me some of interactions i have with my mother

    so it Does trigger me to hear my decisions feared about…

    and i feel glad to get a chance to express that here

    i am healing

  153.  #153Femininewoman on November 4, 2011 at 5:44 am

    sammie sighs he is going to think what he wants to think. The thing that is more important is that you bring the focus back to you. Are you feeling jealous because you believe there are no other men out there for you? Are you cdating? Are you afraid of him leaving you if you share your jealous feelings?

    I can almost guarantee you, he already knows how you feel. He can feel it in your body energy. Just the same way babies can tell/feel when we are tense, it is the same way guys can feel our energy.

  154.  #154Lyka on November 4, 2011 at 5:47 am

    FW – #142:

    I get that, you’re right. I just don’t mind it, I actually find it funny. I guess I found the right guy for me then because it really doesn’t bother me, as long as he walks away, that is! 😉

  155.  #155Femininewoman on November 4, 2011 at 5:50 am

    RE 120 sammie sighs that reminds me of Gay Hendricks’ story. He gave most of what they had to his wife just to get away from that relationship and to be with the love of his life who is is still with. They do relationship coaching and he said that commitment to himself opened so many doors that he has made thousands of dollars more than he lost in that transaction so he is happy he made that decision. Mr. P is the only one who knows what he needs to make him happy. Maybe he is more committed to fighting his wife or winning than he is to being happy. I don’t know, maybe you could inspire him by committing to your happiness and going out and doinig whatever it takes to make you really happy, alive and thriving. Seeing you like that might inspire him to let go of making his wife pay and wanting his freedom?

  156.  #156Lyka on November 4, 2011 at 5:51 am

    Daria, I’m happy you’re seeing it that way. I guess I’m concerned because at one point in my life, a guy screwed me up and really hurt me so I’m a little bit more cautious when it comes to accepting something from people I don’t know. I’m just on my guard a little bit more than you are, that’s all. Life brings all sorts of different situations and we find ways to deal with them in our own ways.

  157.  #157Daria on November 4, 2011 at 5:52 am

    Lyka – yeah! that’s exactly it, you wouldn’t and i would…

    i feel a bit sad to think of that, and imgining how your life must be very closed off and such…

    and it’s not true at all… just my perception

    its actually about me feeling terrified that my life would be closed off, and feeling so relieved that i make choices that don’t go along with those beliefs

    and that i feel like i can TRUST my intuition

    that feels so magical and relieving for me

    i don’t know who i’d be if i didn’t feel that way, and if i actually didn’t accept rides or sandwiches from someone

    i feel sad when i imagine that

    it’s triggering for me 🙁

    i mean, who i Think i am, is someone who expressly avoids following those beliefs…

    so in a way, that feels annoying too

    this feels overwhelming! too much thinking!

    i don’t have to figure this out. i feel good doing things this way

    i feel good to inspire other people to be a lil more open and a lil brave

    to talk to strangers and accept help and accept love in all human beings

    and to not hunker and protect hunker and protect

    to believe im safe by just being alive and following intuition

    it feels so scary to mind that has those beliefs!

    and it feels so lovely in real life!


    i will take the magical path cuz i want to

    practicing practicing, even when it’s scary

    even when i think i have no faith, choosing to intend to have it


    love to me

  158.  #158Femininewoman on November 4, 2011 at 5:53 am

    Does he know you prefer or like when he walks away? Or is that an unconscious commitment? Reason I asked is that I have learned that little quirks can eventually become a nuisance in the long term. However, communication and awareness can make a big difference. It seems though that you get him and he feels safe with you.

  159.  #159Daria on November 4, 2011 at 5:53 am

    Lyka – def we find our own ways. that feels good to read.

    so sorry to hear about guy screwing you up 🙁

    hope to hear about it feeling healed

    i have fears around situations that felt traumatizing for me too

  160.  #160Daria on November 4, 2011 at 5:56 am

    Lyka – so glad not to fight with you

    i can come off really ‘harsh’ i think sometimes

    actually i just heard that from a guy

    actually i do believe it is true, but i don’t want to believe it

    so i’m gonna say now that i no longer come off as harsh

    i just feel comfortable expressing anger


    that feels good actually surprisingly wow

  161.  #161Daria on November 4, 2011 at 5:58 am

    feeling VERY pleased right now

    i put castor oil on my eyelashes, just a bit, which felt good, better than putting on a bunch

    it will help my lashes grow

    AND the reason i put it on right now, so the lil invisble fleas will no longer irritate me, and its SO working omgosh


  162.  #162Daria on November 4, 2011 at 6:00 am

    i did it! i found a way to make my body feel better… woo hoo!

    now feeling sleepy

    gonna lay down

  163.  #163Lyka on November 4, 2011 at 6:01 am

    Daria, I actually feel a little bit envious of you being able to be so opened towards strangers, you know? I lost that sense of naivete I used to (naturally) have after that guy screwed me up. I wish I could return to that part of my life and change it. Then I could be able to trust people as much as I used to do because I do want to trust people but it’s not easy anymore.

  164.  #164Femininewoman on November 4, 2011 at 6:01 am

    T-Girl it seems that you are focussed on words so I am wondering if you need words of affirmation to feel loved. If so have you mentioned that to him? I know melting works but I believe that the eyes are the windows to our souls and looking into his eyes and using the face and shoulders can communicate our feelings through our body language. I am also wondering if you gush in any way when he says those words? Also I know I am silly but I practice things in front of the mirror to see how I look and communicate with my body.

    Your belly dancing really sound sexy, sultry and sensual.

  165.  #165Femininewoman on November 4, 2011 at 6:04 am

    RE 155 Lyka I believe that being curious could help with that. Being curious about everyone who shows up in your life.

  166.  #166Lyka on November 4, 2011 at 6:04 am

    OMG, Daria I so don’t want to fight with you, nor with anyone else! 🙂

    I’ve had enough fights in my life, especially with members of my family, I don’t want that anymore. It just drains me and I tend to either want to walk away or try to explain myself in a calm way now.

    I’m glad we’re getting along! 🙂

  167.  #167Lyka on November 4, 2011 at 6:07 am

    FW, yes, I’m trying to be curious about people I meet for the first time but it takes me a long time to actually trust them enough to be as opened as I used to be now.

  168.  #168Femininewoman on November 4, 2011 at 6:07 am

    RE 94 Starla I am feeling a little concerned about “I get these NV “gut feelings” about “bad” things happening”. I might be wrong but I believe NVs are in our brains, our thinking. Gut feelings come more from our center and is more like our intuition. Is what I believe. I am hoping that you are clear on what you are feeling.

  169.  #169Femininewoman on November 4, 2011 at 6:10 am

    Well Lyka practice practice practice. And I would encourage you each time, just take a babystep away from your comfort zone. No need to rush.

  170.  #170mali on November 4, 2011 at 6:12 am

    I’m feeling so happy and inspired. And so proud of myself!
    I’ve been looking into a course called “Unleash the power within” hosted by Anthony Robbins. It looks incredible. Very pricey, especially for a student such as myself, but I’m willing to invest in it (if I can find cheaper tickets ;)). If not, I’ll have to wait until the year after next to attend. But I *will* attend.
    Has anyone attended any of his courses, or know of anymore information?
    For anyone who’s intrigued, this may help 😉

  171.  #171sammie sighs on November 4, 2011 at 6:13 am

    #145 Hi FW that’s the funny thing no I have walked away from relationships in past including him, I was happy to carry on with my life went out with friends and still do I guess I’m not sure when Im right to be a bit uneasy and when it could maybe be jealousy. Before my ex husband I didnt even think about such things didn’t occur to me to ever be jealous…and I think I just answered my own question just had an aha moment that was because I loved myself and knew my self worth so nothing else mattered to me!!

  172.  #172sammie sighs on November 4, 2011 at 6:19 am

    Wow FW you are so wise….thank you for taking the time to help me 🙂

  173.  #173Lyka on November 4, 2011 at 6:32 am

    OK, FW, good suggestion. I will try and do that at my own pace.


  174.  #174Daria on November 4, 2011 at 6:42 am

    I am back ! Not asleep yet


    Back to eat me till I cry not eat me till I cry out or scream … Booring not what I like

    I like eat me till I cry patient all about me yum ness

    Thank u lil Wayne that’s why your my maybe baby daddy

  175.  #175marina on November 4, 2011 at 6:46 am

    Yay Mali!
    I would love to attend one of Anthony Robbins seminars as well!

    But they are definetely pricey…

    I have some copies of his DVD’s and ebooks.

    Here is also some good stuff of Robbins with Cloe Madanes:

  176.  #176Femininewoman on November 4, 2011 at 6:57 am

    If you are in love with a man who hasn’t said he loves you too, you may be wondering, does he realize that he is in love with you?

    A man realizes he is in love with a woman when he:

    – Can’t stop thinking about you day and night

    – Thinks of you at any time even when you aren’t around

    – Can’t wait to be with you

    – Feels comfort and happiness every time he is with you, even if you are in different rooms of the house and are doing different things, for instance, you can be cooking in the kitchen and he is watching TV in the living room;
    the presence of the loved one under the same roof is all that matters

    – Prefers to spend time with you rather than doing anything else

    – Thinks that you can do no wrong
    – Will defend you to his friends and family even if they are against you and don’t like you

    – Will do anything for you, even gives his life for you if necessary

    When a man starts doing all these things, he will realize he is in love with you.

    In order for that to happen you need to make him feel on a deep subconscious level that he wants to do all these things for you.

    Pressuring a man into doing these things for you will not work. If you try to force a man into thinking and doing these things for you, it will make him
    develop resentments against you.

    The good news is though that you can make him fall in love with you without pressuring him, forcing him, or trying to convince him.

    And it’s actually a lot easier, because when things unfold naturally, you don’t have to work too hard.

    When you let your relationship unfold on its terms, love will come naturally to him without being forced onto him.

    Elaine M.D.
    The Dating and Relationship Author

  177.  #177mali on November 4, 2011 at 7:13 am

    @ 167
    YAY Marina!

    Thankyou darling, that article, I found very intriguing =)

    Hmm… would you be interested in attending? I’m based in the UK, so that may make a difference… I just contacted a supplier who’s said he’d be able to offer me a Gold ticket for £575; the cheapest I’ve seen. It’s a *lot* of money, but my soul is constantly telling me of the potential I have, that I have so much more to give. And so I think this could *so* help me! I’m feeling like a child, and so excited! Hee hee!!

  178.  #178T-Girl on November 4, 2011 at 7:22 am

    156 FW I don’t know why I am so focused on the words. I know he loves me – I see it in his actions and his other words. The funny thing is, he will tell me other things like “I’ve been thinking about you all day”, or “you are the most important thing in my life”. I just recently read Jonathan Aslay say that when men say “I love you”, they are saying “I am willing to spend the rest of my life with you”. That kind of struck a nerve in me and not in a good way I guess.

    It’s not that I’m looking for marriage, but I have a huge hurdle within myself that I am having a hard time getting over. My guy and I have lead VERY different lives. I was married for 20 years, he has never been married. He was quite the bachelor in his younger years, maybe even a player. So every now and then he makes comments about an ex-girlfriend. I have already expressed when he talks about exes it makes me feel bad. Then to top it off my NV’s kick in and I think am I going to be an ex someday too? Afterall, this man has never been married which to me gives me the idea that he doesn’t know how to commit.

    I really like the article you posted above as it is maybe the same perspective as what Jonathan was saying but gives hope that HE just doesn’t realize it yet.

    So hard not to be focused on the words but I do feel it from him. I guess a couple of times I was looking so intensly into his eyes to try and see it and he made the comment “uh oh, what are you thinking?”

    I keep telling myself just worry about living in the present, not the future and that seems to help.

  179.  #179marina on November 4, 2011 at 7:29 am

    Hi Mali,

    Wow, £575 is definetely much cheapier than what I have seen!

    There was a Unleash The Power Within seminar in Rimini, Italy (in September) and the cheapest ticket (including flight etc.) I could find was 1,100 euros (through a Dutch supplier).

    I can preregister for London 2012, but I can’t see any prices yet…I will preregister, just in case…

    Keep me updated!

    And I am doing a happy silly dance with you!
    Feeling excited too!

    I just remembered some Anthony Robbins quotes today that helped me get through the day.
    I guess this is one of those amazing serendipity moments 😀

    So glad you mentioned it!
    I think will have enough time so save up money for this event. 😀


  180.  #180Lucy on November 4, 2011 at 7:29 am

    T-girl, men say “I love you” for all different reasons. It definitely does not always mean they want to be with you the rest of their lives! If Jonathon actually said that he was probably basing it on the way HE uses the words. <3

  181.  #181marina on November 4, 2011 at 7:34 am

    Oops, typos, I got soooo excited.

    My first resolution for 2012 is saving up money for the UPW!


  182.  #182T-Girl on November 4, 2011 at 7:44 am

    Yes Lucy – I see where that could be true. Jonathon is so deleriously in love right now he could be talking about his meaning of the words.

    FW – when he tells me those things I do gush. But I haven’t told him I need words. I’m not good myself at saying things so maybe he could be afraid still. So I use body language and actions as well. Maybe he still doesn’t feel safe enough.

  183.  #183T-Girl on November 4, 2011 at 7:49 am

    I just recently signed up for e-mails from Mike Fiore who is the author of “Text the Romance Back” and he says men love getting a text like this which shows how much you appreciate and are proud of him:

    “I can’t stop thinking about
    how lucky I am to have such a
    great man in my life. When you get
    home tonight I’m going to . . .”

    He’ll repsond with . . .


    And you respond with “You’ll see.”

    And when he gets home, surprise him
    with something you know he loves.”

    Should I do it? Is it too much lean forward, or is it ok since I am in a relationship with him?

  184.  #184marina on November 4, 2011 at 8:06 am

    Wow, Mali, I just preregistered through https://succesgids.infusionsoft.com/app/form/pre-registratie-upw-2012-londen

    They immediately called me and told me they have a special 1(+1 for free) early bird offer.

    For the Gold section (cheapest section) a ticket is about 950 euros (including tax (I think that is called VAT in UK?) it will be 1150 euros. And I get one ticket for free!

    I asked a friend if she is interested in going as well!

    They will call me back in one week to ask if I will take the offer!

    Mali thankyouthankyouthankyou!


  185.  #185Susan on November 4, 2011 at 8:10 am

    RE: 171: T-GirlNo Gravatar says:

    “156 FW I don’t know why I am so focused on the words. I know he loves me – I see it in his actions and his other words. The funny thing is, he will tell me other things like “I’ve been thinking about you all day”, or “you are the most important thing in my life”. I just recently read Jonathan Aslay say that when men say “I love you”, they are saying “I am willing to spend the rest of my life with you”. That kind of struck a nerve in me and not in a good way I guess.”

    Sweet Man never says the L word either. Some days it bothers me and some days it doesn’t. IMO, he ACTS like a man in love, but I don’t want to make assumptions about that.

  186.  #186Femininewoman on November 4, 2011 at 8:23 am

    T-Girl my opinion is Michael Fiore mostly write those scripts related to long term commited relationships. Putting that in context of what Rori teaches and where you currently are in the relationship, I would not do it. Rori and others say that at the 4 month milestone they are thinking about what they want to do with the relationship. He might also be a bit intimidated not knowing for sure whether you want marriage if that is what he unconsciously wants. I myself am not convinced that guys who have never been married after a certain age are really wanting or willing to do it, so I know what you mean. Maybe you are where you are because of the exclusivity?

  187.  #187T-Girl on November 4, 2011 at 8:31 am

    I’m not going to send it. Why is it so easy to overthink things sometimes? I just need to enjoy the present and not worry about the future. He did tell me before that I am the first person he ever felt like he could spend forever with. We are coming up on 6 months soon, so I must be doing something right.

  188.  #188Camille on November 4, 2011 at 8:43 am

    Just checking to see if Im still in moderation

  189.  #189Starla on November 4, 2011 at 9:03 am

    CF commented on my facebook this morning.

    Still no contact.

    Honestly, I think he’s struggling and feeling insecure. Not wanting to come on too strong and lose me.

    I am the air he needs to breathe:D

    I felt tempted to text him something reassuring and wonderful, but 1. I could be way off base because I texted him Tuesday morning wishing him “the wonderful day he deserves” after helping me move something the night before, and 2. I’m going to let him flounder. He is a grown-ass man. He will figure it out. And when he wins me over, he’ll feel accomplished and proud, not like an apprentice who couldn’t cut it without my guidance.

    And I’m staying so busy and focused on myself I don’t notice as much as I normally would.

    I am really really starting to think that he is just farking very in love with me, and is freaking out trying to figure out how to be ‘good enough’ for me and not lose me.

    SO what do I do, Sirens? I reckon I just lean way back and be a lovely invitation when he does come around?

    I feel amused that he’s feeling insecure (assuming he is). we just had a lovely and intense weekend last weekend. but i get it.

    thank goodness I have the Rori way. In the past, I would be textin a guy in this situation right now, asking what’s wrong, etc.

  190.  #190Starla on November 4, 2011 at 9:08 am

    but in the back of my mind part of me is thinking “he doesn’t like you as much as he thought he did”


    *hugs self*

  191.  #191Susan on November 4, 2011 at 9:09 am

    RE: 181: Camille says:

    “Just checking to see if Im still in moderation”

    I’m still in moderation too (from message 16!)

  192.  #192tinque on November 4, 2011 at 9:30 am

    Ella – #68 – Don’t go there. He may or may not tell the truth, and you’ll find out soon enough for yourself whether it’s through something he does or through his energy.


  193.  #193Starla on November 4, 2011 at 9:41 am

    CF just texted me:
    “Hola:D hope you’re having a wonderful Friday! I’m gonna call you later; hopefully it’ll let me leave a message this time if you don’t pick up:)”

    Awww, he is insecure! See! He would have just called back yesterday and tried again if he wasn’t worried about looking like a clinger by calling repeatedly.

    That or he chickened out of leaving a message and realizes what an idiot he is for it because I’m not all waiting for the phone by him.

  194.  #194mali on November 4, 2011 at 9:45 am

    @ marina 176- I registered with the same people, and they gave me the same offer!! 😀
    And you’re very welcome, dear! If your friend decides not to come, would you be willing to split the price with me for the 1+1?
    Lemme know, otherwise I’ll just buy a single ticket =)

    Hee hee SO, SO excited- YAY!! xxx

  195.  #195mali on November 4, 2011 at 9:51 am

    @ 181- Starla
    Ha, your creative swearing (“farking”) made me giggle!
    I understand that fear of not being loved as much you’d like to be, and I felt sad reading your last post.
    But remember: You’re a gorgeous siren. You deserve the biggest amount of love, and kindness, and respect that a person can receive. You are so, so loveable =)

  196.  #196Starla on November 4, 2011 at 10:05 am

    thank ya mali!

    i believe you:) i’m gonna be a-ok.

  197.  #197Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2011 at 10:22 am

    @115: GingerSky says:
    “…Catnip gets rid of farts pretty well for most people. Make tea of it (the food-grade kind, not any from the kitty section or pet store). Don’t know what I’d do without it… even works on gas so bad it gives stomach cramps…”

    😀 Ditto!
    Many years ago my parents made catnip tea when their babies had colic. They bought the catnip in small boxes from the pharmacy.

  198.  #198Lucy on November 4, 2011 at 10:58 am

    It’s interesting reading the comments about “I love you.” My guy says it too much for my comfort.

  199.  #199Starla on November 4, 2011 at 11:01 am

    I take the words I love you very very seriously in a romantic context. The last couple of times I said it to a guy, it was to reciprocate, and I didn’t actually mean it:(

    I tell my friends and even my coworkers I love them though. I do! But that sort of love is a promise I can keep.

    The devoted romantic love….I want to let that build.

    I also believe there is a difference between being in love and loving someone romantically. you fall in love and THEN you feel love later. In my opinion

  200.  #200Senior Lady Vibe on November 4, 2011 at 11:07 am

    @118: marina says:
    “…Oops, Timothy Ferris’ book is called
    ‘The four hour body”…”

    That is one huge book! I borrowed it from the library several months ago. That’s the book that has the “instructions” for the fifteen minute orgasm!

    The vagabonding book is mentioned in the second version of 4HWW. I bought both versions of 4HWW, maybe I’ll get “body book” too. There are instructions in it for making inexpensive substitute for kettlebell type weights but they might be too heavy for me.

    I hope the vagabonding book comes today so I can curl up with it tonight, busy rest of weekend.

  201.  #201Patricia on November 4, 2011 at 11:08 am

    I am soo excited to respond to this one but I have to wait as I need to get work done…Its just wants to burst out of me though…this is such an amazing topic

  202.  #202Lucy on November 4, 2011 at 11:13 am

    Starla, my guy “fell in love” first and then soon added the deeper love.

    I love him deeply and am starting to “fall in love.”

    So the two of us have done this in reverse of each other.

    I don’t fall in love easily.

  203.  #203Lucy on November 4, 2011 at 11:14 am

    We both started loving each other around the same time, but for him it was after “falling in love” and for me it was before.

  204.  #204Susan on November 4, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    I just got off the phone with Sweet Man. In the course of casual conversation, he offered me a key to his place. I turned it down, because I’m never there without him so I’d never use it, but it was nice to have it offered.

  205.  #205Susan on November 4, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    I’m finally out of moderation… 24 hours later? Odd.

  206.  #206Daria on November 4, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    I feel tired, and lonely.

    I feel a compulsion to run and just get out of here

    I feel miserable about the invisible fleas.

    I feel hot and tight in my throat from Tabacco leaves.

    I I feel sad.

    I feel afraid to move around too much cuz don’t want to draw attention to myself and maybe start an argument.

    I feel humiliated imagining a conversation I had yesterday with my friend in a different light.

    I feel desperate for some apple cider vinegar to take a bath in.

    I feel sad I feel I unsqueezed unhugged and untalked nasty to.

    I feel half asleep and kinda ‘stuck’ in my room.

  207.  #207tinque on November 4, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    Susan – A post will go into moderation if any one of the words RR has “blacklisted’ show up, and these do change depending on what’s happening on this site.

    She goes in and checks them regularly, but if she’s busy, then sometimes she doesn’t get to it right away, so 24 hours is not unusual. It’s not a personal thing at all.


  208.  #208Daria on November 4, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    Just talked to a cd and I feel better

    Also I have a Cd in 30 min but haven’t heard from him so kinda hoping he will not show so I can relax more.

  209.  #209Tiffany on November 4, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    Lyka – I know this is old news, but thank you for sharing that piece in #51, with the link to the call.

    As I’ve been reading through the comments, and thinking on my own, I realize that money is my own personal “weight” issue. It’s where I “stuff myself” down. It’s where I fail, in a very private way that no one can see, but which tends to torment me deeply.

    I get myself into a position where I “really need help.” And then I either ask for help, or I don’t because I feel like “no one can help me” – or even No one SHOULD help me. (Or both).

    And that’s exactly where I find myself right now.

    I’m pinched for money. My rent is due on Monday, and I don’t have NEARLY enough to cover it.

    Overall, I just want a steady (or steady-ish, and LARGE) stream of income that can support me. That’s the “forest.” But in the mean time, I am forced to think about the “tree” in my face – which is the fact that, if $1,000 or more does not find it’s way to my bank account by Monday, then I’m not quite sure exactly what is going to happen.

    But I’m in a really weird place about this. Because on the one hand, I can see that my stuff and my financial situation isn’t what I want it to be. And on the other hand, I am somehow not phenomenally worried about it. I mean, I am worried. I am concerned about the immediate future. But I have an underlying sense that I will be taken care of.

    Last night I went to my favorite dance class. It is high-energy, lots of jumping, very aerobic. Plus, I just love the people there, and the sense of community. I walked out of there literally feeling “high” I was just so happy.

    On the way home, TDH called me, out of the blue. He said he wanted to see me. And it was strange, because normally, I would have said, no way. It was late on a week day, and i needed to go to bed. but who would I have been kidding? I was in such a good mood, I wouldn’t have gone to bed right away anyway. Plus, I really wanted to see him.

    So he came over, and he did what I always wanted, which is he stayed the whole night. I was just so pleased about that. I loved sleeping next to him.

    I kept thinking I should share my money situation with him, but I didn’t want him to think I was asking for help – partly out of pride, but also because I know most guys just don’t want to be “taken advantage” of by women. So I held onto it.

    In the morning, I finally said that I wanted to talk to him about something. And I said I was scared. I said that I didn’t have enough to cover my bills this month, and I had no savings left, and I didn’t know what I was going to do. When he seemed nervous, I told him I didn’t want him to do anything, I just wanted to talk about it. and that felt good.

    I didn’t feel like he was judging me or anything. He let me cry a little and comforted me. I probably would have felt really happy if he had just volunteered and said, “how much do you need?” haha. But I guess I felt like, if he was going to do that, I wanted it to be his idea. And for my part, it just felt better to talk about it and be honest, instead of trying to hide it.

    In fact, I feel good and smiley just thinking about it.

    I know I’ll be fine. I don’t know HOW I will be fine, but I know that, somehow I will. I will be fine right now, and soon, very soon, I will be more than fine. Baby steps in the right direction. Seeing what inspiration will come to me, or what gifts the Universe will send my way. The Universe sent me a lovely person to spend time with me last night. What’s next?

  210.  #210Susan on November 4, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    RE: 207: tinque says:

    No worries. Although I did think it was odd, I had not taken it personally. And your explanation makes sense, thank you!

  211.  #211Ella on November 4, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    Hey Sirens,

    What do you think about this?

    Today I am feeling REALLY, REALLY TIRED.

    Last night CD1 was pushing me a a bit to stay the night… and I said No.

    Was difficult in some ways and I stuck to my boundary cus I did not feel good about him staying yet… and I knew he wanted to…

    And today he text me this afternoon to say some stuff for my business and then he called me… and it was all nice and I was like ‘awww, it felt so good with you last night’…

    Then he told me how when he left in the early hours he drove all the way back to his home town (about 45 mins) and then the alarm went off where he works (near me) so he drove back.

    the upshot was he stayed at work and didn’t get any sleep at all.

    And then he was hinting about how if he had stayed it wouldn’t have been an issue and I felt manipulated and I felt my body tighten up.

    I said kinda jokingly ‘so are you saying its my fault?’ and he said jokingly ‘Yes I did think that’ and ‘you will have to be extra nice to me when you next see to make up for it’ and then he said something sexual and then I realised I felt pressured about this issue and I kinda clammed up.

    Then we came off the phone and I felt bad.

    And I sent him this text:

    ‘I feel bad hearing that it is my fault that you didn’t get any sleep 🙁 I want to feel completely comfortable with you and I only want to agree to things (like staying the night) when I do feel genuinly happy with it. That is how I can feel good with you. What do you think?’

    And I sent it and I felt all better and powerful and now I am feeling a little rather unsure and thinking it sounds blamey and I probably overreacted.

    This ties in again to me feeling defensive cus of the ‘ladies man comments from the garage man which he doesn’t know about… I have been wondering whether to share with him about it…

    He has NOT replied to my text.

    I know he was really tired.

    I expect I am probably a bit much for him sometimes… I know I can be demanding… its part of me.

    And also I am noticing how he tends not to ‘catch’ when I am expressing negative stuff or if its a bit conflicty.

    Sirens, please tell me what you think/feel about this?

  212.  #212Femininewoman on November 4, 2011 at 2:32 pm

    Ella I think you did well driving a stake down into the earth for yourself and stood up for yourself. Follow your gut, it can only be more attractive to him to not have you at his beck and call.

  213.  #213tinque on November 4, 2011 at 2:32 pm

    Ella – I would have suggested to let it go, but since you already sent this, it was fine. If he can’t handle a little overreaction or a woman’s sensitivities, then….’


  214.  #214Femininewoman on November 4, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    I took the “extra nice” comment as sexual innuendo suggesting that she owes him something and that’s what he wants in return. I tend to get triggered by that kind of thing and recognize that it could be one of those moments that a relationship can actually get stronger.

  215.  #215Ella on November 4, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    FW, Tinque,

    Thank you.

    My gut says I overreacted.

    And I am feeling a little defensive still, and that is not really his fault.

    Do you think I need to apologise?

    Also, do you think I should bring up that I feel insecure cus of the ‘ladies man’ comments or just leave it?

  216.  #216Ella on November 4, 2011 at 2:48 pm

    FW re 214 – that is exactly how I took it as well.

    And I got triggered.

  217.  #217Ella on November 4, 2011 at 2:54 pm

    Hmmmph… I wanted to be that ‘cool girl’ who doesn’t get ruffled about stuff and men want to be around cus I am relaxed and trust him and don’t take things the wrong way!

    Oh, well, ho hum.

    I do see that this could be an opportunity to strenghten/go deeper… and only if he communicates about this.

    But how could I deal with it?

    Say something like I overreacted and got triggered because I have been feeling a lil insecure and defensive purely bc of his situation and the garage man comments.

    And that actually I like spending time with him and want to relax and trust.
    And yet I need to be able to express my boundaries and feel heard…

    Hmmm, its all practice at least.

  218.  #218tinque on November 4, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    Ella – You absolutely don’t need to apologize. There’s nothing to apologize for. As for the other, leave it alone. Your insecurities are none of his business, and in any case, if he doesn’t realize that a comment like that would be triggering for most any woman, again I say, then….


  219.  #219Ella on November 4, 2011 at 3:02 pm




    I just feel a bit overkill… like I already said my boundary.

    This text was unnecessary.

  220.  #220Ella on November 4, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    Yes, you know what – this is a chance to stay in my power…

    So what if I overreacted a bit…

    I had my reasons.

    And it is/was a golden chance for him to take care of me…

    Yes, just leave it alone is best.

    Let go, let go…


    Keep having to let go of stuff again and again with this guy… Obviously lesson is about letting go of control…

  221.  #221mali on November 4, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    Ella- Focus on how good you felt stating your boundaries; because I know it would take courage for me to send a text such as that.
    Although next time you can feel yourself tightening and clamming up, you may want to express that and see where that goes?
    And yes, I thought being a Siren was all about being “cool”, but that’s the challenge- in being comfortable with our feelings, we’re not just “cool”. We’re sensual. Zesty. We’re women!

  222.  #222Ella on November 4, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    You know what actually the text itself isn’t that awful… I can send those kind of texts, stating my boundaries, to men I am not bothered about without blinking an eye.

    And actually I feel ok.


    No need for drama.

    I can learn a lot from his reaction too!

  223.  #223Ella on November 4, 2011 at 3:42 pm


    Thank You.


    Yes it did feel good to state my boundaries…

    And yes it feels good if I can love myself through this.

    I am learning and growing.


  224.  #224Ella on November 4, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    189 Starla,

    I think you are doing AMAZINGLY!

    Everytime I read about this you continue to inspire me and you are handling it so well.

    I bet you are right about him being totally in love and not wanting to lose you and dealing with his own issues.

    Hmmm, that sure feels good.

    I am starting to believe that about my men too!

    Like CD1, it honestly sometimes feels like he is trying to hard in different ways… and sometimes he just doesn’t know how to deal with me and my emotional juiciness…

    Like he almost doesn’t think he is enough… of course I too could be way off! 🙂

    Funny thing is I feel accepting of him just how he is, without him needing to push or convince me…

    And actually that is all his business, mine is taking care of me.

    Feels good to have these beliefs.

  225.  #225Ella on November 4, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    Tinque re 192,

    I am not sure which post you are referring to?

    Thanks. xoxox

  226.  #226Ella on November 4, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    Tinque just worked it out…


    Yes, I am sure it will all unfold as it is supposed to!

    And thanks to all Sirens for the support tonight.

    I love how calm I feel knowing that I have support here on this blog when things feel crazy…


  227.  #227tinque on November 4, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    Ella = Don’t ask. And whether he really is a player or rather a player with you, and whether you want this in your life.


  228.  #228Ella on November 4, 2011 at 4:59 pm


    Actually it feels real.

    I believe he has feelings for me…

    Beyond this I don’t know… ie whether he is a good man for me etc…

    Time will tell 🙂

  229.  #229LILI 41 on November 4, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    I started gaining weight right when I started dating D.
    Never had this happen before.

    I gained 15 pounds during the 2 years I dated him.

    He was the 1st man that had alot of what I had always wanted in a man…and it scared me big time! I was like frozen, my emotions and feelings were frozen. I was overstuffing myself with food to stuff down that paralyzing fear.

    My whole life, w any other man, I always ate just enough just to satisfy my hunger. But while dating D, I was eating alot more than I was hungry for.

    I was having dinner with him every night and I would leave the table feeling bloated. Too bloated to want to cuddle and have s*x.

    For those of you who know my recent history w him, you can have a good idea here of how our relationship is toxic.

    I’ve been thawing out my emotions and feelings for a year now.
    I lost 10 pounds since I have started onto this path with Rori’s work. I didn’t even try to lose the weight. All while expressing my fear instead of stuffing it down.

  230.  #230Ella on November 4, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    PS – meant to say… I won’t ask anything.

    I was more wondering whether to share about how I feel insecure sometimes cus of what the garage man

    I would not ask a man if he is a player… that would feel very werid and be pointless and if someone asked me that I would feel weird and would not know what to say.

    And I am still kinda vearing towards no as to sharing about feeling insecure around this, unless it came up naturally.

  231.  #231Starla on November 4, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    Ladies, CF finally called. It was a nice superficial friendly convo….We’re not much for talking on the phone, and i’m certainly not that good at it with men because i feel overfunctiony in my gabbiness, so it’s super awkward and quiet.

    He asked me if he could see me on sunday and i said i felt disappointed that i wouldn’t be able to because i am all booked up. He asked the next time I was free. I said thursday. he said okay but didn’t firm up any plans or time.

    He said “it is nice to hear your voice….i know it’s only been 4 days, but still”

    Okay…only 4 days? I didn’t say anything. My other line started beeping and I thought it might be my plans for tonight so i let him go.

    It was so hard to let the convo go. and to let go of trying to control the outcome. my head is swirling right now, like “what if he thinks i don’t like him anymore!” “what if i am so bad and awful on the phone that he thinks we don’t have a connection anymore?!”

    I texted him a few minutes later that i was sorry for the abruptness of my goodbye…i had to get to the other line so it was pretty abrupt.

    my intuition is telling me he is holding back for MY sake. because he is not materially equipped to give me the commitment i want and he knows it. and i would hate to get all attached to a man that wouldn’t be able to start a life with me unless i did a lot of the material/financial legwork myself.

    i am trying like hell to just treat him equally like all my other cd’s, but i just think the world of him.

    I didn’t bring up his not calling me more often….i guess i could have, but again, my intuition tells me to wait.

    also, i REALLY appreciate this opportunity to re-invent the way i approach insecurities and NV’s with men. To not make it all about my shortcomings when things aren’t going perfect, but to just accept them as they are and not break out into hives stressin about it:P

  232.  #232Starla on November 4, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    no matter what happens with any of these men, i will get the relationship i want! i trust myself more and more to know this!

    so what if i didn’t say anything about him not calling? this doesnt make me a doormat…it means i didn’t feel like saying anything because i’m still feeling things out.

    So what if i get off the phone abruptly? It’s what I do. Any man I date is going to have to accept this about me. CF says he finds it endearing anyway.

    So what if I feel more attracted to one man than the others? that doesn’t mean a thing in the long run!!

    so what so what so what:)

    I am going to be just fine! better than fine! i’m the divine queen of my universe. I am so lovely and deserving.

  233.  #233Starla on November 4, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    Ella 224 – thank you! That means so much to me!

    I think you’re doing great too! I can see how you are changing the way you relate to triggers and have upped your self esteem in the process.

    I’m feeling excited for both of us. We so hot!

  234.  #234Starla on November 4, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    I have a date with Alaska tomorrow night. I like hanging out with him as he is smart and clever, but mostly he is my free therapist right now. I love the opportunity to practice all my tools with men because when we get focused on just one man, we start strategizing and all that so we quit using the tools in their pure, effective forms. Instead, we become scared of sharing our feelings and start trying to control the outcome and worry about what he thinks of us.

  235.  #235Emerson on November 4, 2011 at 6:56 pm

    Sirens I need your feedback/advice….
    I’ve corresponded back and forth with OceanCD a couple times now on the dating site…and doesn’t seem like he remembers meeting me in the past….
    Should I mention it???

    My gut is telling me to keep quiet….

    Is that weird!?

    What if we plan to meet in person? Do I mention it then or when we meet??
    Rori…Daria…Tinque, Ella….Sirens et al….

    Please….Your thoughts / feelings on this much appreciated!!!!

    (Sidenote: He and I met once in person about a year ago…met on another dating site!!! he asked me out for a second date but I declined…due to the fact that he works at the same place as Recycled and it kinda spooked me…plus I was soo busy with new job, etc…I was not in the right mindset)


  236.  #236Emerson on November 4, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    BTW OceanCD is super sweet and very flirty/complimentary/gentleman! so sweet!!!

  237.  #237Susan on November 4, 2011 at 7:10 pm


    Why not say nothing and just let it unfold? If he doesn’t remember, then he was attracted to you two different times. By bringing it up, you make Recycled important…

  238.  #238Daria on November 4, 2011 at 8:35 pm

    im feeling good! just got back from 2 CDates with gentlemen today!

    i feel so full!!

  239.  #239Daria on November 4, 2011 at 8:35 pm

    full of food that is, they both took me out to eat

    i also asked another guy to buy me vinegar, and he did and i picked it up

    so now i have that to take a bath and clear out the invisible fleas

  240.  #240Starla on November 4, 2011 at 9:26 pm

    right on, daria. feeling happy to read that.

  241.  #241Starla on November 4, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    my girl came over and i made us a goddessy dinner and rearranged the roses CF gave me around the house. a few guys texted/called while she was over to flirt with me/ask me out. now she left so i guess now i am going to do that thing where i spend an hour primping and taking care of myself.

    i feel such resistance to doing it tonight, but i am committed to making it part of my daily routine. maybe i’ll procrastinate for a few more minutes.

  242.  #242Daria on November 4, 2011 at 10:52 pm

    i just fielded two offers to go out tonite

    i want to rest

    the thing is, i kinda also would like to be with a man


    and i just got a call (or two) and got pulled into a fun feeling conversation

  243.  #243Daria on November 4, 2011 at 10:54 pm

    thanks Starla that feels good to read! yay i feel supported and loved 🙂

  244.  #244cat woman on November 4, 2011 at 11:22 pm

    hello everyone and Rori, I have a question just listened to the entire toxic men program:
    1) if I practice feeling messages with men early on in dating..wont that come off too strong or make for ackward moments? I imagine there is some editing? or should i just take it for the ride and express my feelings I just feel embarrassed about the honesty of it. example: guy starts to talk alot about his neighbor and its our second date he says she is really cool, has a nice car, etc..i automatically want to play it calmly and listen and not say anything about it but if I were to be honest and feeling messages I would say “I feel really uncomfortable about this conversation”…etc. Isnt that dramatic? (by the way my stranger in toxic men is a dramatic diva- cat woman like creature who is sexy, dramatic, powerful, and a bit loony lol..im afraid of this stranger however intreaged

  245.  #245cat woman on November 4, 2011 at 11:25 pm

    I feel daring enough at the moment to just always say feeling messages to men no matter what but part of me feels like its a mistake..Im willing to say it in dates and everywhere but part of me is feels so daring I wonder if I will come off crazy, extreme, and will be looked at as strange (by the way one of my biggest fears is to feel strage when I express negative feelings- childhood crap) any encouragement ladies? advice on this? I wonder if I will look overly sensitive..because well I am!

  246.  #246Daria on November 4, 2011 at 11:34 pm

    my cat is here and he’s purr snoring and it feels so good and comforting

  247.  #247Lyka on November 5, 2011 at 2:53 am

    tiffany – #209:

    You’re welcome, Tiffany. I’m sure everything will work out if you want it to. Remember that when one door closes, another one opens.


  248.  #248Lyka on November 5, 2011 at 2:58 am

    I am so thankful that I can sleep the whole night through without having to “suffer” from hot flashes anymore! Yay!

    Off to workout like a maniac now! 🙂

  249.  #249Ella on November 5, 2011 at 4:20 am

    Starla re 231,

    Like I said I think you are doing amazing 🙂

    One thing that occured to me while reading your posts… if it comes up again and he says something like ‘I know it’s only been 4 days’ you could say ‘oh it feels like forever to me, I miss you when you are gone’ … thereby addressing it without being blamey or having a serious talk.

    Plus letting him know you still care.

    And its authentic.

    What do you think?


  250.  #250Ella on November 5, 2011 at 4:29 am


    If you don’t feel like mentioning it don’t.

    Its not weird… if he ever catches on you could give him a killer smile and say ‘I wondered when you were going to notice that!’ he he.

    Either way I wouldn’t stress about it.

    He is just super lucky to be getting another chance…


  251.  #251Ella on November 5, 2011 at 4:32 am

    I feel sad when I get to the bottom of the new comments on the blog!

  252.  #252Ella on November 5, 2011 at 4:38 am

    Well there has been no reply from CD1 since I sent that text.

    And I don’t seem to care very much…


    I am more like observing… like ‘Ah, ok, so he doesn’t seem to be able to catch negative emotions from me, or engage in commuincation when things are a little tricker’.


    Maybe he is one of those that would just rather let things go, and I do find it triggering when I express a negative feeling or concern to a man and it doesn’t get acknowledged… drops like a lead balloon.

    And also I don’t want to make an issue so I may let it go.

    I am watching though… his behaviour.

    Feels good to have choices and options.

    Oh and noticing I feel quite a bit turned off and angry in relation to this.

    Maybe angry is a bit strong.

    Just feeling kinda like bleurgh!

    And like relogating him again (is that the right word?) Demoting him… making him less important once again.

    And its kinda happening naturally.

    Yay for me.

    Gotta do some work now and I will stay signed in and keep an eye on the blog.

    Feeling fairly good in myself today.

    So glad I didn’t get sucked into my own drama yesterday.

    Thanks Tinque and everyone.


  253.  #253Senior Lady Vibe on November 5, 2011 at 4:43 am

    I’m soccer Mom today so I hope the weather is good. I also got a nice and unexpected gift last night. Yay!

  254.  #254Mel on November 5, 2011 at 6:37 am


    I realized something about “expectations” (and also NVs) yesterday.

    Architect normally sends me a “good morning sweetie!” email EVERY morning before he leaves for work. I know he’s been having laptop issues, so when I didn’t get one on Friday AM, I didn’t think too much of it.

    However, he also usually emails me at work a couple times throughout the day and by 11:00 I still hadn’t heard from him. I know this is no big deal, but my NVs started to chatter. I had no trouble giving them some tea and telling them to quiet down, but they were still a little buzzy in the background. I just noticed them and tried to get on with my day.

    It turns out that my emails were not getting through to my blackberry. So when I logged on to webmail later on, I saw he had sent two messages. Apparently internet was down at his office and he had been trying to email all morning and wanted to know how I was. When I replied that getting his email made me feel all smiley, he said “my day’s going so much better, now that I’ve finally been able to talk with you!”

    So this was a really good example of how NVs don’t know what the f*uck they’re talking about. So what if my “expectation” of an email didn’t happen as per usual. No matter! Why am I even expecting anything anyways? That’s just a form of control that I don’t want in my life. It’s interesting that once a pattern of communication develops, that we can be thrown-off when things don’t happen as expected.

    I’m really going to be observant of this “expecting” feeling. And remind my NVs that life is more interesting when we go with the flow and allow the unexpected and be surprised. And I have this example to shove in their ugly little faces…”See NVs… you were dead wrong! He was desperately trying to contact you. Your false “intuition” sucks, so I’m just going to choose to think positively.”

    Yay me! Yay for self-reflection! 🙂

  255.  #255Ella on November 5, 2011 at 6:58 am

    Yay Mel,

    Thanks for that – feels good to read.


  256.  #256Sammie on November 5, 2011 at 8:20 am

    I could use some help.

    I emailed one evening this week with a guy on an online dating site. He ended the exchange by saying that he hoped we could write another night and perhaps meet.

    Yesterday I received an email with two words: “Busy weekend?”

    What is the best siren way to respond to that?

    Thanks much!


  257.  #257Starla on November 5, 2011 at 9:15 am

    ella 247

    that is brilliant! thanks!!

  258.  #258Starla on November 5, 2011 at 9:23 am

    254 sammie

    answer his question with feeling messages. “i’m feeling excited about the weekend…i’m going to paint my house 8 different colors using only gumdrops and frosting, and 8 pretzels are coming over for dinner.” then hit send.

    obviously those are just examples…replace with stuff that is 1. true and 2. doesn’t make you sound like you ingested LSD for breakfast.

  259.  #259LILI 41 on November 5, 2011 at 9:32 am


    Hi Ella:

    The fart thing with skin on skin happened to me too w a guy I had been dating just 2 months.

    I giggled. He liked hearing me giggle so he tried to get that skin fart again on purpose to make me laugh. We ended up being able to do it on command and had such a laugh w it.

    It felt so good and freeing to be spontaneous and have fun like that. It really put both of us at ease and comfortable w each other knowing that it’s no big deal, it’s even funny.

    Another time I let a noisy one go in bed by accident while we were drifting off to sleep.
    I said I’m sorry, did that wake you? I didn’t really want to let you go to sleep.
    He laughed and hugged me. He said he loved how I can be so cute and funny about embarassing things.

  260.  #260Sammie on November 5, 2011 at 10:15 am


    Thanks! I appreciate your thoughts…yes, you are right about sharing stuff I am doing. I do in fact have a busy weekend!


  261.  #261Sammie on November 5, 2011 at 10:28 am

    And, of course feeling messages! I sent my message and also feel much better!

  262.  #262LILI 41 on November 5, 2011 at 10:44 am

    I’m kinda stuck here in confusion and I need help. I’m hoping that some of you sirens can help shed some light.

    I’ve told D about 3 times how I felt unimportant and how I don’t want a relationship that is only about s*x.
    He has constantly been calling me and wanting to see me every free minute he has.
    But he keeps giving me affection and attempting to have s*x w me.
    I was annoyed at repeating, but now I feel grateful that I keep getting the same opportunity bc it allows me to practice and improve the way I express myself every time. I get to express the same thing, but I see an evolution of how I say it every time.
    So he is good practice.

    We had the conversation this week bc he was frustrated at no s*x and he was saying that he is sad that I was no longer interested. I told him again how I felt disconnected and couldn’t get that passion without the connection. I feel disconnected when I feel unimportant.
    I told him about what happened the last time he was away, I got into a conversation w a random guy at the videostore that was paying me attention. I told him how fun the conversation felt and that he had asked me my phone #.
    I said how I regretted not giving it to him, bc now I feel like I’m putting myself on a shelf to rott and that feels lonely and sad. I don’t want to keep feeling sad and lonely.

    D immediately said that he was reserving his Saturday night for me.

    We watched the tv show that we enjoy watching together: This man interviews people in their historical homes that they restored themselves and they take him on a tour of the home explaining how they did it and how it was for them throughout the project.
    It is a dream that D and I both had before we even met each other.
    While watching the show I sank into my feelings. I shared w him how I miss my old house, how I miss painting and putting up moldings. I shared how I felt cozy in that old house. I also shared how it felt sad and lonely being alone in it while my ex was always out having fun without me.
    He took me in his arms and said “Just look forward from now on, don’t look back”.
    He asked me how my happiness would look like in that house. I said I would be happy w a house that had work to be done that was not urgent and could be done slowly a little at a time. So we could afford to go on a trip or vacation to change scenery once or 2x a year.
    That I could do what I love, which is creative manual renovation work, and still have freedom of time and money to do other things for myself, that it wouldn’t feel like a trap.
    It felt so good being there in his arms and sharing.

    He then went on the internet to look at this old stone house he’s been eyeing for 3 weeks now. We went around looking for other houses and found one that was exactly how I pictured in my dream.
    I shared that with him, how it’s exactly the kind of house I picture myself in. It had it all! Minor work, warm and cozy, built in 1860 with its original farmhouse charm.
    We started talking about what we would do to enhance it to our liking. I felt really relaxed and connected.

    He made s’x moves again, I turned him away again.

    I’m confused about when it’s time to stick to the boundary…I had told him how I don’t feel good to have s*x without connection. There we were connecting, and I didn’t trust him not to be tricking me. He left looking very sad.

    He is coming over tonight for dinner. He said he would like to eat more healthy. I responded by saying I did say the other day that I owed you a homecooked meal for changing my tires.

    I’m confused about wether I missed an opportunity for bonding w s*x the other night after I got my wish for connection…or wether it was the right thing to do to refuse and let him just leave sad and frustrated. He asked me “didn’t you have a good time tonight?” I said yes I really did, but I still feel weird.

    I feel like I should say something tonight bc I know there will be tension, but I don’t know what or how. I’m practicing just relaxing and sinking into my feelings right now so I can be present to whatever feelings come up tonight. I want to be able to let the feelings come up and express them in a relaxed way.

    He’s going away next week on a trip to the beach w his buddies again. He said he doesn’t want to miss the opportunity to get away from his house and have fun.
    I responded by saying I am an opportunity too.

    He is worried bc of the guy at the videostore, worried that I will have another opportunity while he is away and like I said – I regretted not giving the guy my number. He should be worried.

    I don’t know what to say to him tonight.

    Any ideas? Any views? Anything I’m not seeing?

  263.  #263mali on November 5, 2011 at 10:54 am

    I just had a Hand Analysis Session with Nadia Tumas. She was lovely, and the call was so informative, but I’m feeling so overwhelmed!

    She revealed my Gift Markers- the line of Clairvoyance, one of a star (of something?), and The Gifted Healer Marking. These all come under the gift of Intuition- she said that I’m super Intuitive, and super sensitive. I’m just reeling from all of the information!

  264.  #264Daria on November 5, 2011 at 11:22 am

    Lily – ‘i am an opportunity too’ sounds very aggressive and demanding to me.

    Also, to lift all this pressure, I would so be Circular Dating.

    Holding on to this guy is not going to bring him closer or get out of this tortured feeling (unsatisfying) kinda situation. Circular Dating has the greatest chances of bringing him close if he is able to.

    My guess is you will not want him anymore and that can feel super scary. Rori talks about how sometimes letting go of the man is easy, but letting go of our dream of what nights been with him is hard… That’s where we have invested our energy and don’t want to ‘cut losses’

    The truth is we don’t lose the dream of great relationship, and we hardly have to invest Any energy until we are feeling satisfied.

    Re: sex. You can choose to have sex whenever you want with a man… So theres really no wrong here.But I wonder what it is that you want here?

    Is it no sex before marriage? Sex is all aboit you and your pleasure… So what would make you want to have sex with a man?

  265.  #265R.N.AmazingMe on November 5, 2011 at 11:35 am

    You know I am so happy with things yet so unsatisfied…why? I am bored, I want a good CD to take up my time but business before pleasure because I have to work to do these things. My car is just not reliable and money is slim until the checks start coming. I feel at a standstill but am living through my dreams one day at a time:)

  266.  #266Daria on November 5, 2011 at 11:38 am

    Lily – ps I would not tell him all about flirting experiences with other men. It’s not really his business and it seems to give a message – in my perception – that you’re holding on to him and saying no to these guys. When the idea is to hold on to You, and say yes to these guys. It’s not all about him, it’s all about You. And actually it will always be that way even after commitment.

    What to do now sounds like Circular Date and don’t do anything, just reframe sex as something you do for Your pleasure only (not to give to him or to ‘improve’ the relationship/intimacy).

  267.  #267Daria on November 5, 2011 at 11:41 am

    Rn amazing – are you saying you aren’t dating because you aren’t driving and don’t have money?

    Lol I find that amusing cuz that sounds like guy concerns!

    I’m in a similar situation and I’m dating all the time! It feels awesome to receive I’m now getting men who offer to give me rides and pay my phone bill.

  268.  #268R.N.AmazingMe on November 5, 2011 at 11:43 am

    Yes Daria….I wish I knew how I was just always tought to be self sufficient so I didn’t have to rely on a man…how do you do it?!

  269.  #269Daria on November 5, 2011 at 11:43 am

    This is one area of life where we women definitely Don’t have to work at all. We just deserve deserve deserve, without lifting a finger. ‘working’ is what will actually stop men from getting closer.

  270.  #270LILI 41 on November 5, 2011 at 11:47 am

    Thank you Daria.

    The thing with s*x is that I don’t want the relationship to be all about s*x.

    It is super great w D, but it’s been feeling like it is all the relationship is about.

    He called a few minutes ago from work. He had already said he was keeping his Saturday night for me. Just now, he said he started work an hour earlier at 3am so he could finish at 3am to come take me out in the beautiful sunshine. He sounded like a man on a mission (what a turn on).

    So we won’t be staying in where all he will be thinking of is s*x. So me standing for my boundary of no s*x without connection and a real relationship is forcing him out of his comfort zone.

    He is stepping up by rearranging his work schedule for me and taking me out instead of coming over to stay in. He is not staying in his sulky sad mood, he sounds like in a good mood today, which means he’s not holding a grudge.

    I am really starting to agree about the cd’ing. Just the thought of me giving my number to a guy while he’s away is really worrying him…good.

    I did the Toxic Man program, and will go over it again tomorrow.

    Thank you Daria, you are being such a wonderful help and support to me. xox 😉

  271.  #271R.N.AmazingMe on November 5, 2011 at 11:50 am

    I saw you screaming, but no one could hear.
    You almost feel ashamed that someone could be that important, that without them you feel like nothing.
    Noone will ever understand how much it hurts.
    You feel hopeless, like nothing can save you.
    Then when it’s over, and it’s gone you almost wish you could have all that bad stuff back so that you could have the good.~~~~Rhianna

  272.  #272Daria on November 5, 2011 at 11:52 am

    Rn amazing – me too (being taught /having those beliefs)

    How to do it? Well first, intend to … Then babysteps.

    So for example I might chat with a guy online first and practice my new vulnerability.

    I might tell him how I’m feelin unworthy about my financial situation…

    Then, I do it again with the next guy, maybe a lil more open…

    Then again, until Fast, I feel perfectly comfortable being truthful about where I am (and what I want, etc )

    Another example was – provocative – I felt scared to ask a man to go down on me.

    So I started by putting it up as a status on a (somewhat private) website.

    Then I blurted it out to some guy. (ps yes it did feel embarrassing as hell)

    Then I blurted to another….

    And his sister and her brother… – not really that was just a rap song.

    And then I started feeling comfortable with it

    Even though I did yes sometimes receive the reactions I feared, I also received supportive reactions. So I found that I could ‘handle’ it.

    And since I Want this – that was my intention – I can now speak about it without anxiety and it feels … Easy.

    Sometimes starting to talk on the blog first, before and during the practice with men helps me.

  273.  #273R.N.AmazingMe on November 5, 2011 at 11:52 am

    @271 just beautiful poetry to me but I do not support the aftermath is keep it moving but in the moment I think when we fall in love we have all felt like this one time or another.

  274.  #274R.N.AmazingMe on November 5, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Thanks Daria for the advice I have a lot of work to do in this department 🙂

  275.  #275Daria on November 5, 2011 at 11:58 am

    Lily – if you’re thinking in terms of ‘worrying’ him, there’s still some conceptual leaps to take there. It’s so much more than the effect on him. The important effect is on You. It will Really change you. Then he and other men will be relating to a changed you. A very open powerful self confident you. That’s what makes the difference in your relationship(s).

    As far as this D guy, and sex, is sex all about You? Does he kinda withdraw after sex?

    It sounds like you’re on the right track waiting until you feel comfortable… But keep sex about pleasure for yourself and not about giving ‘it’ to him

  276.  #276Daria on November 5, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    RN amazing – I’ve found that ‘I have a lot of work to do’ means fast amazing changes are about to take place. The smallest moves have the biggest effects.

    So now… What are you planning to practice?

  277.  #277Daria on November 5, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    omg . my dad finally showed me how to turn up the heat on the boiler so i can get hot water in the shower… wooo!!! i’ve been wanting to do this for years!


    Apple Cider Vinegar bath, here i come! and healing from the invisible fleas i mostly don’t feel them right now anway, and this will feel even better

  278.  #278Daria on November 5, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    yesterday’s CD at lunch was one of my former tutoring students! GASP

    he seems really mature tho he is 19 i think

    i mean he’s quiet, composed, a gentleman, and i think he’s spiritually mature… he was talking about giving massages (he went to school for massage therapy)

    it takes having the mind be loving yet peaceful

    i felt kinda surprised

    also he’s not driving but he successfuly took public transportation and walked to my house

    and then he took me out to eat lunch

    and first we smoked – because i had told him while i was in Romania that’s what i wanted

    and whats so cool is his eyes look so attractive

    im like wow this guy is really attractive!

    super cool.

    the other guy i went to dinner was friendly and happy. he drove a bmw.

    i felt comfortable with him and wound up talking mucho about coaching and about the life i want what with living in brazil and all

    he seemed super supportive

    i noticed myself judging him when he seemed exhuberant in his eyes about something that made him happy – i noticed this in men from certain cultures and it would kinda surprise me and come off as feminine to me
    and then i felt compassion awww

    maybe im not fully embracing my own exhuberance

    love to me

    and him

    he was awesome too!

  279.  #279Daria on November 5, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    then at nite i chatted on the phone with another guy who wants to see me but has to figure it out in terms of his license

    and he really liked talking to me about us being married and having kids and stuff . he really likes kids.

    and he was asking me what i would want…

    and then i was joking telling him that he will have to give me massages everyday

    and he will have to bring me stuff, like food. like i will tell him to go to this farm and bring me some beef and he will have to do it.

    well he had experience cuz him and his brothers would go to a city and get goat

    so that would work

    and he was down for the massages too tho he said he would want to have sex everyday

    and i said that would feel good as long as i want to

    and he said but he doesnt like to go down
    so then i said, ohhh you can’t be my husband then

    and he’s like are you serious

    i said yeah

    hes like why

    im like cuz i really really like that

    and hes like well will you do it to me?

    and iml ike well its not about doing it so i will do it to you, i want a man that wants to do taht cuz he wants to give me pleasure

    i want sex to be all about me

    so then he says well will you teach me?


    i felt so good

    i said sure well i can tell you what feels good

    he said ok cuz ive never done it before

    i said you never know you might be really good at it the first time…

    hes like how are you good at it

    im like its like a massage, yoy have to be in tune with the person’s body and how they respond


    htat was so fun convo

    im happy on my eat me till i cry relationship lovemaking

    go mee

    go mee

  280.  #280Daria on November 5, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    also ive been thinking about getting one of those crystal love making sticks

    i want to learn how to squirt and i can learn on my own

    im starting to feel more comfortable about pleasuring myself

  281.  #281Daria on November 5, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    omg i feel afraid inside i ran everyone off with my pushy ‘im better than you’ advice giving

    LOVE to me

    and with my uncomfortable making discussion of my sexuality

    LOVE to me

    and i have a date in 30 min but am just filling up my bath right now hehe

    i texted him im gonna need an extra 20 min

    ive been having men wait pretty much that long on accident

    and am realizing that for me its not about ME being on time, its aobut him

    i find it a masculine quality

    so basically once he’s on time, i can do anyhthing cuz its all for MY pleasure anyway!

    and that felt good and i ‘got’ it yesterday too

    me like!


  282.  #282GingerSky on November 5, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    Quickly checking in today but with not much time here…

    #132 Lyka I can’t resist this in response to your comment: did you intend your pun? …since you farted it out, yes, it’s def no longer an “inside” joke, lol!

    My massage school owner used to eat beans on purpose during a certain class and walk thru the room farting, so we could all get used to dealing with it… she’d say, “It’s just energy in motion!” E-motion… keep it moving and don’t let it get stuck, etc…

    I was well in to adulthood when I finally got okay with this… lots of people pushed and helped, BUT it lead me to be more comfortale with me and life in many ways, on many levels, which may or may not be your truth as well… and being refined and modest about things is also nice/valid/okay/fine and no one should judge.

    Daria Thank you for all your honest riffing… I offer a suggestion of using some e-oils to repel the lil critters that are itching you, as well as to heal any bites or whatever *and* make you feel more clean in that environment (you may not even be there anymore, I don’t know)… it may help (basil, lemongrass, lemon balm, eucalyptus, tea tree, citronella, clove, are some that might work well imo). Y You probably already know this, but you can mix them with some lotion and apply all over, wipe a little residue of it across your hair etc, and see how that feels.

    As for your ride and your sandwich, some things I sense and read from you make me trust and belive fwiw that you are streetwise, perceptive and with very good instincts and experience, and you can take care of your Siren self and make good decisions about things that might challenge some of us who don’t have that fine perception… no offense meant to you , Lyka, and I agree we should all be careful and wise at all times, but I suspect that “careful and wise” may look different for each of us and have its own form and format in each of our lives…?

    And I SO like how what we read from each other brings up stuff for us to notice as triggers, concerns, traits and important messages for us in ourselves…

    On another note, I been practicing the leaning back etc with lots of men… was around 4 wonderful men all day yesterday working/talking, and getting *tons* of practice and seeing how long and under what circumstances I could even stay (or should stay) leaned back and for how long, and what results from my actions… plus having somewhat used Rori’s concepts to write my profile on OKC, I am amazed and surprised how I’m able to say the same things I;ve said on other past profiles and say it SO differently, and amazed how men responses are. They’re so intrigued, and it’s the points where I’ve been vulnerable and expressive/open (instead of being my old self and nailing stuff down, projecting extreme boundaries and what I will and won’t tolerate etc) that they’re responding to and saying it’s a lot of info but they can’t get enough… would I write and share more. This is changing so very very much for me in how I am and how I relate.

    Speaking of OKCupid, am wondering did a Siren go and look at my profile… bc I saw a pretty and loveable-looking Siren face with deep soulful eyes and and edgy cute and strong woman spirit with a lil black choker looking back at me on there… 😉

  283.  #283GingerSky on November 5, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    Oh, and I used the tools/stance etc while eating lunch out w 3 of these men here (NSM included, with whom I’ve had some deep talks yesterday & today, as well as yelling at each other in group meeting yesterday and later exchanging several deeply tender moments)…

    …there was a song on at lunch and I longed to know who the artist was, so went to the bar and asked the waiter in a leaned back way… the guy sitting there got in on the convo bc he liked it too… and at the end after the waiter very gladly and gallantly found the info for me in a kind of personal, manly serving way different from what I’ve experienced when not being leaned back, I said to them both with the napkin note in my hand, “Thanks! It feels really good to have this info.” They both were kind of riveted and pleased as punch… over just that small phrase… we talked a bit more later, and the waiter’s energy toward me was really interesting and I learned tons. All day I was the only woman around with all these gritty fem/masc amazing cool men, and I saw much more value and humanity in them than I otherwise would have with all my under-surface judgments. Their responses to me and our communication as they and I wavered in and out of the leaned back vibe were immediately telling.

  284.  #284GingerSky on November 5, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    Daria I hope you and me and ALL of us can keep being ourselves on here no matter what! As long as no attacks etc are happening, you know…? And we can all select who and what we want to pay attention to on here if it’s too triggereing… but I’d hate to see this blog be too controlled, polite and so on… the honesty is what heals imo. I benefit from reading your honesty, and no matter if it’s the same as me or not (some is and some isn’t as with us all) I still very highly *cherish* and value (and need) you and it… and value everyone here. Glad you expressed your fear of running people off” or whatever, and glad you riffed through it… and thanks for sharing all you share on here!!!

    Still dreaming of creating a Siren retreat center some day, somehow… big dream… might happen… we could wear masks and then unmask at midnight… and have deep honest communicatin circles and silly dress up dinners and much much more… it feels good to think of this… even though I also understand that we benefit much from *not* necessarily knowing each other face to face… hmmm. Helps us get to know ourselves face to face more… perhaps…?

  285.  #285Starla on November 5, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    I am going way outside of my comfort zone and doing something really sireny – going to a concert with a friend that I KNOW crack fix would want to be invited to.

    i ordinarily would invite a man to something like that, because i would feel guilty for going and not mentioning it to him.

    but i’m just gonna go with my friend and his buddy, and rock out and have fun. I’ll see him the next day, and when I tell him all about it, he’s going to be shocked how much i live my own life and pursue my own happiness without coming to him for it!

    this is uncomfortable for us both. i know he mentioned before that he is so used to women that make their relationship with him the center of the universe that sometimes he feels insecure when i’m not trying to keep him around for everything ever. And I mentioned to him that I’m so used to a certain kind of guy that i felt like i needed to have him by my side at all times to feel happy with him.

    we are growing and expanding!

  286.  #286GingerSky on November 5, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    (Spamming again for sake of time)

    Daria, wanna remind that the e-oils basically “wrap” you in a kind of “envelope” of a different frequency and a different reality in a big way… will actually transform and alter the energies around your immediate area. They’re more than just scent, or medicine, etc… wrap your Siren self in something lovely that fits for you? Frankinscense is the other serious frequency-raising oil I know of, if you get a really good brand… it’s not cheap. Changes things a ton. I wish I could send you some, so grateful am I for you.

    Onycha (or “Benzoin”) also creates a comforting shield around you… and amber is grounding (though insects might like amber sometimes).

  287.  #287GingerSky on November 5, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    #206 Daria I SOO relate to this!!!! So many time in my life. I hope to read that you are feeling in a different state soon… you will probably get something useful out of this later… I hope. Big squeezy hugs to you, lovely woman.

  288.  #288Starla on November 5, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    Maybe I am not reading carefully enough, but how do you “wrap” yourself in essential oils?

  289.  #289Lyka on November 5, 2011 at 3:17 pm

    GingerSky – #282:

    #132 Lyka I can’t resist this in response to your comment: did you intend your pun? …since you farted it out, yes, it’s def no longer an “inside” joke, lol!

    ROFLMAO! Good one, I love it! No, I didn’t intend my pun but now that you mention it, I find it hilarious! 🙂

  290.  #290Lyka on November 5, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    No offense taken, GingerSky. We are who we are and it’s all good.

  291.  #291Mel on November 5, 2011 at 3:29 pm

    OMG! Architect is sooooo sweet!

    He responds amazingly well to feeling messages.

    So here’s the scoop…

    I told him that I think I’m ready to be intimate (or “bed” for those of you who remember my freudian slip).

    Because of our busy schedules, we were planning a Tuesday get-together. So of course, I had planned to go out and buy some sexy undies, etc.

    Today I get a text from him saying that he unexpectedly has the afternoon free tomorrow and would I like to come over? He’s so excited to see me, but understands if it won’t work.

    I felt really nervous about this… I had “planned” for Tuesday, you know? This is a big step for me and I need the next couple days to get ready.

    I replied “I feel silly telling you this, but I had planned to get some super cute undies for you to enjoy… but I won’t have enough time to do that for tomorrow. I’m kinda girly that way, I guess. What do you think?”

    He replied: “I like the idea that you want to make our first time special, so let’s do just that…I like the thought of sexy undies; nobody has ever done that for me. Do you still want to see me tomorrow? If so, no sex just a bit of kissing k?”

    Awwwwww! I feel so cared about! What a keeper! 🙂

  292.  #292Lyka on November 5, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    Wow, Mel! I’m so happy for you! He does sound sweet!

  293.  #293R.N.AmazingMe on November 5, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    @276 LOL Daria I have no idea!! Where to begin I guess, I need to work on my skills and get out more but where do I go and with who? I am lost right now, like looking in the dark for a warm body to hold me and a soul to find my soul and love it just how it is as I would do the same… 🙁 Hopeless sometimes that is why I just keep bustin my butt trying to make money and provide for my children. They need me most and leftover time I rest. Unless a man goes out of his way to seek me, I don’t think I will be chasing anyone anytime soon. XOXO

  294.  #294Emerson on November 5, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    hey ladies what are some feeling messages to respond to a compliment

  295.  #295Mel on November 5, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    294: Emerson

    Lately, I’ve been saying “Awwww shucks!” and flashing a big playful smile. That seems to go over well. 🙂

    If I’m feeling particularly spunky, I flash the playful smile first… then say “I know.” 😉

    Or I just say “Thank-you” and give him a smooch. 😀

  296.  #296Mel on November 5, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    I feel kinda weird going out tonight with a different CD… but architect’s very busy this weekend and I wanted to go out, so I accepted. It’s good for me… and good for him to know I’m not waiting around waiting for him to do stuff with me. I’m going to continue to CD… just not sleep with anyone else.

    Today at the coffee shop, the barista was chatting me up. I’m going back there tomorrow morning (he works the weekends), so I’ll flirt with him some more.

    Also going to a concert with another CD next weekend.

    Do you ladies tell your CDs you’re dating others? If architect asks, I’ll tell him… but perhaps right now it’s none of his business? It’s keepin’ me sireny, which he can appreciate… so it’s all good.

  297.  #297Mel on November 5, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    Awwww… I just reread his message. What a sweetie! AND he used a semi-colon and everything! 😉

  298.  #298Daria on November 5, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    RN Amazing – when you feel that desire for warm body see if you can turn that around on YOU, and instead of focusing out there, focus inward and start saying loving things to yourself, literally holding yourself gently, and imagining you giving yourself a hug

    whenever you notice your energy going “out there” for love, gently turn it back on you and love yourself…

    are you on any dating sites?

  299.  #299Daria on November 5, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    RN Amazing – more…

    notice how once you started talking about what you want, you got to the feelings… “hopeless” … and then your brain instantly jumped out of there and

    started making it at odds to have what you want,

    by going to thoughts about providing for your children.

    This is a thought pattern

    “think of what I want in a relationship” –> feel uncomfortable feelings —> make it ‘wrong’ to want somehow by creating a conflict with something else that is important to me/duty/other life roles

    for you, this is your subconscious pattern and once you can start noticing it happening, you can interrupt it by doing something new…

    like noticing and saying, ‘oh wow, and it’s not true that i can’t have a great love life AND take care of my children…’

    or wow, i thought about the relationship i want and i felt hopeless… okay… feel it, and go gently back to imagining the relationship i do want, along with the good feelings that might come with that… – it will get easier and easier to shift your thoughts to the positive

    as far as where to start, my suggestion was to get online, and online chatting or even on the phone take babysteps to sharing with men how you feel about certain topics you feel triggered about…

    such as finances, etc…

  300.  #300Starla on November 5, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    Mel – i LOVE/SWOON/DIE for proper semi colon usage, *especially* in a sweet text/email

    gahhhhhhhhhhhh i feel so turned on just thinking about it.

    Anywayz, to answer your Q, I don’t tell my guys i’m dating others…but i will DEFINITELY be honest and matter of fact about it if it comes up. I’m not hiding it, but I’m certainly not trying to rub it in their faces. I’m just dating around until one I want claims me all to himself on my terms.

    I used to tell them as a way of manipulating them into speeding it up or being good to me…like a threat. I knocked that off after my last exclusive flub. I also feel the urge to share that up-front sometimes because I don’t want them to get mad when they find out.

    But they’re not claiming me exclusively…I’m not doing anything wrong. If they don’t like that they don’t get me all to themselves, they can have a go at changing that, but I don’t need *their* permission to keep my options open while i’m not in a committed relationship, LOL.

  301.  #301cat woman on November 5, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    daria, feel free to say any advice I want to feel heard on here so u know u can be upfront with me…when I read some of your stuff I feel shocked at times and then I feel curious..I wonder what it would feel like if I was that way..could I speak my mind? sometimes yes many times no…Im so used to being polite, blahblahblah I feel annoyed at myself why the fu** cant I say how I feel sometimes? I just dont like ackward feelings I sometimes like when Im heard and get an apology but other times even that feels ackward..I start to wonder if I was overreacting….I just gotta practice!

  302.  #302Daria on November 5, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    Ginger Sky – your CDating sounds AMAZING! its magical isn’t it! omg!

    thank you so much for the aroma reminders… i want to start incorporating this more…

    im using castor oil on my lashes (helped some) and i did an apple cider vinegar bath (helped some)

    i still feel lil small things on my eyelashes… maybe residues of my sensitivity… i put some pine sap oil on there now…

    will try some tea tree whcih i have… oh i have some eucalyptus now too…

    i want to try the frankincense for my room

    thank you also for calling me streetwise and experienced i felt quite pleased and also embarassed to feel that way and

    i love me!

  303.  #303Starla on November 5, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    my not totally confirmed date for the night called me a couple hours ago but didn’t leave a message. he usually leaves messages…and he hasn’t called back.

    i dont feel like calling back…do you ladies think this is wrong of me? I’m curious. Because in my mind I figure he would call back if he intended on following thru on his date proposal. but it isn’t firmed up by any means, he just threw it out there and i said ok cool and we exchanged a few texts about how he’d have to think of something for us to do since the museums would be closed at that late hour when i am available. This was yesterday or the day before…I can’t remember.

    Ummmmm. I feel weird. I don’t want to call back.

  304.  #304Butterfly Wings on November 5, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    Hello sirens! Phew what a big couple of days! On Friday night I had my official birthday drinks and I drank waaayyy too much but had loads of fun!

    TH wasn’t there because the other woman was going (with her husband too I might add), and I was ok about that – until I got back to his house and he wasn’t there.

    He’d told me earlier that he was going home, and I turn up at his house in the early hours of the morning and he’s not even there. So I was drunk, and of course I reacted badly when he finally arrived and ended up going out to my car and just sitting in it for an hour, crying.

    I eventually went back inside then slept for a few hours before sneaking out yesterday morning and driving home.

    He has emailed me a couple of times since and I have replied with feeling messages and told him how I feel unimportant and how bad it felt to have to lie to everyone about why he wasn’t there with me.

    And then I pretty much dropped it. He started emailing me again this morning then eventually asked if I wanted him to come over later.

    I told him it would feel good to see him and to let me know when he’s on his way because I’m driving my daughter around a bit.

    I am so seeing that this is all my stuff. He’s just doing what he does and it’s up to me if I want to be with someone like that.

    Yes he does some amazing things for me and can be so sweet, but on the other hand, he has a knack of doing things that make me feel unimportant too.

    I suppose my first step is to take my focus right off him, and maybe text back that guy I apparently gave my number too on Friday night who was asking if he could take me to dinner this week! 😛

    But not sure about that… I feel scared…. sigh…

  305.  #305Starla on November 5, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    or maybe he was just calling to get my opinion about something he was planning, and just figured it out himself when i didn’t answer, and i should fully plan on him hitting me up for my address around the time i threw out as good for me.

    yeah, this feels much more likely, lol, i’m silly. sometimes i think the most black and white thoughts.

    okay..so then…i have a date tonight with Alaska! I’m going to practice the tools no matter what! ahhhh! scary hehe. I also think I’m just going to wear these daytime clothes I’ve been wearing – ripped jeans, clunky skate shoes, and all. I feel good in these clothes today and it would feel good to go out wearing these clothes instead of something ‘fancier’.

    Gonna try to keep it shortish- a couple of hours maybe?

    Okay:) Glad I figured that one out, LOL

  306.  #306cat woman on November 5, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    i feel ignored daria did u read what i said i want feedback

  307.  #307Daria on November 5, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    cat woman – thank you i feel really supported reading your comment

    you know i didn’t use to be very open before starting to use Rori’s blog… and i was encouraged to here and i grew so much at being able to express myself

    this blog is great to practice expressing stuff that i wouldn’t have in the past – it’s “safer” than the “real world” and then all the growth and practice on here translates to my life in the real world too

  308.  #308Daria on November 5, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    cat woman – whoa that last comment (i just read it) felt weird. i feel kinda angry

    i don’t want to feel like im required to respond to a comment

  309.  #309Daria on November 5, 2011 at 5:57 pm


  310.  #310Daria on November 5, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    Cat woman – now i feel a bit compassionate (and also kinda scared). i don’t want you to feel ignored. aww 🙁

  311.  #311Ella on November 5, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    Starla re 258,



  312.  #312Starla on November 5, 2011 at 6:20 pm

    LOL, got the text, “so where am i picking you up tonight?”

    😛 i’m so silly sometimes.

  313.  #313cat woman on November 5, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    daria, lol u must have responded and i didnt read it and thats why i said that my bad…omg this does feel weird im so not used to this..i said how i felt about feeling ignored and you were honest im not used to being this honest and getting such an honest response..how come you feel scared?

  314.  #314cat woman on November 5, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    wait i have been honest in the past before and there are moments when i do get honesty so thats not fully true..its just so ackward i feel ackward and also i feel so uneasy hearing the response i wonder why it feels really uncomfortable especially when theres compassion from the other person how can that be

  315.  #315Ella on November 5, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    The other day I met a new guy and I was feeling bored and fed up and he asked me what would make me feel better. What do I want?

    And I blurted out ‘I want to be married!’

    He he.

    And I thought I would feel realy awkward or he would react negatively or run away, and instead he kinds smiled and laughed and took my number!

  316.  #316Ella on November 5, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    Actually I don’t want casual dating and sex.

    I feel best with a deep connection and I want to be married.


  317.  #317cat woman on November 5, 2011 at 6:34 pm

    Ella I want to say that too to men what i really want but i fear it will scare them “i want a serious relationship etc.” but maybe thats not true

  318.  #318Daria on November 5, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    cat woman – aww it feels so good to hear this you ARE doing great with the honesty thing

    well i felt scared cuz of my triggers, like i think if i tell someone i feel angry then they are going to be mean to me or distance themselves from me and that feels sad and i feel afraid of it

    and i think that’s with most of us

    and yes it can happen and actually i can handle it!!

    but in the moment i still feel scared cuz maybe im not sure i can handle it yet

    but i can.

    yeah telling the truth feels VULNERABLE and that feels scary! and also exciting and release

  319.  #319R.N.AmazingMe on November 5, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    @299 Thank you Daria, I have slowly started doing the waterwheel thing. Love and nurture myself. I actually have so much stress lifted off of me from being done with that test. I am like yay I can have a life now but like I said haven’t put myself out there. I am on OKCupid, cancelled POF out of anger about how men approached me(not all men but some), but my problem is I do not trust people on the websites…Arggghhh I dunno…XOXO

  320.  #320Daria on November 5, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    my girl is going to pick me up in a few and we are going dancing! yahhooooo 🙂 i feel excited

  321.  #321Daria on November 5, 2011 at 6:48 pm

    RN Amazing – hehe yeah!! about the websites… omgosh i felt so triggered going on them in Romania i felt scared of almost any man thinking they were possible rapists

    well the good thing is you don’t have to trust the guys, first you can talk to them on the phone and select just teh ones you feel comfortable with (at first, cuz after some practice you will start to feel more comfortable with all of them)

    then after the phone have the guys meet you somewhere in public.

    i had the guys meet me at a local coffee shop in busy downtown, daylight hours only

  322.  #322Starla on November 5, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    Alaska said to dress semi casual. i’ve never had a man tell me how to dress for the date…that’s pretty thoughtful

    too bad this is my response: Damn I’m wearing ripped jeans haha feelin hella comfortable. I can change my pants tho:)

    Okay maybe i’m being difficult but it’s the truth!

  323.  #323Starla on November 5, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    interesting..i’ve never said anything like that to a man before…i was always too scared. let’s see what happens:D

  324.  #324Starla on November 5, 2011 at 6:52 pm

    wow i am feeling really protective over my saturday night and my desire to wear these ripped jeans.

  325.  #325Ella on November 5, 2011 at 6:53 pm

    Actually I am not looking for casual dating and sex.

    I want to be married.

    It feels good to have a deep connection.

    I feel good with a man who can handle me.

    I feel good with a man who can handle my emotions.

  326.  #326cat woman on November 5, 2011 at 6:54 pm

    have fun Daria! wow that feels so suprizing i thought you felt scared because i was coming off crazy (my trigger) like im just strange for being so sensitive. def i wont be mean i am loving feeling messages they are honest even with different feelings but never accusing its genius i tell you! i feel good im gonna practice feeling messages tomorrow and keep in touch w myself. i feel sleepy a little hungry i feel a little chilly but enough blanket warm i feel sad and lonely i feel hopeful i feel brave

  327.  #327Starla on November 5, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    he made fun of me saying it was too cold for ripped jeans.

    then he said “wear ripped jeans if you want. if you do, i’m wearing my Vader shirt.” (a band)

    I said “Yessss”

    he said “haha, awesome!”

    The end.

  328.  #328Ella on November 5, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    Catwoman re 317

    Try it! It feels liberating!

    I still feel scared saying it to men and tbh whenever I HAVE said it, for me it has had an amazing positive reponse.

    Not saying this is always how it would work and when I have said it to men, it seems to have triggered something in them… one went all step and and ga ga over me, unfortunately I can only see him as a friend and he’s not someone I want a romantic relationship with… the other, who had always said he wouldn’t marry and had been dating me about a month, he said that he did want to marry me and we should continue dating heading towards that… As it turned out he wasn’t the one for me either, there were other issues and I walked away…

    Point is so far when I have said that as my truth it has had a GREAT positive reaction.

    Still feels scary… I intend to say it to one of my current CDs, if it feels right to say, in fact maybe I will say it to them all! And I still feel scared.

    And I will say it anyway.

    And its not about their reaction…

    It’s about speaking my truth, and the effect that will have on me!


  329.  #329Ella on November 5, 2011 at 7:01 pm

    From an old Rori e-mail:

    “”I followed everything you advised…

    1. I got busy doing activities that I am
    passionate about (i.e. yoga classes) and making
    new friends

    2. I put down the oars in my relationship and
    leaned back

    3. I use only feeling messages to communicate with
    my relationship man (it took some practice, but it
    is getting easier)

    4. Started dating other men casually and let my
    relationship man know (“my goal is to be in a
    relationship that is moving towards marriage, so I
    am not looking to be anyone’s girlfriend… we can
    still see each other)

    5. Stopped driving to him… he has to come to me

    6. Finally, I stopped going to the last minute
    “meet me in my office, I got an hour” dates! I
    told him that he would have to schedule a date
    with me at least 48 hours in advance.

    “The most amazing thing has happened… when I
    first started this process I was totally focused
    on him… he was everything to me… he was the
    prize for me to win!!

    “Well, 6 weeks later, I am focused on me and my
    life… I noticed yesterday that I am hardly
    thinking about him anymore and I am starting to
    not want him anymore…

    “He has gone from calling me 1-2 times per week to
    calling me 1-2 times per day. Plus he sends my
    text messages everyday. He finally stopped asking
    me to “stop by his office” and started planning
    nice romantic evenings that he sets up several
    days ahead.

    “The biggest change is his emotional response to
    me… he loves the feeling messages… I can feel
    him moving closer to me, where before he was
    always moving away! By the way, I am continuing to
    date new guys and am meeting some nice men…”

    Wow! I LOVE this.

    I intend to do this in my own life.


  330.  #330Starla on November 5, 2011 at 7:03 pm

    woooooo cat woman
    reading your feeling statements is giving me shivers. it feels so vulnerable and lovely and awesomely you…like u were born to feel and be walking poetry…i feel excited! i hope you keep it up

  331.  #331cat woman on November 5, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    thank you Starla!! and Ella! i feel curious for tomorrow and what the day will teach me

  332.  #332Daria on November 5, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    Ella – thank you so much for posting that… i love how this lady broke it down step by step and what she did as well as the changes she experienced

  333.  #333Daria on November 5, 2011 at 7:27 pm

    it feels exciting and inspiring and flowy to read

  334.  #334Starla on November 5, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    i’m feelin kinda tense reading the texts Alaska is sending me right now…like he’s trying soooo hard. i’m just being easy breezy myself and having fun and he’s not quite taking me at face value because he’s trying so hard to analyze everything and respond “appropriately”

    is there any way to help him knock this off? cuz i start to feel defensive if i have to keep clarifying why i said something.

  335.  #335Starla on November 5, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    I hate when guys do this, eeeep! They get so weird and insecure that not only do they have a hard time being themselves, they’re so preoccupied on responding appropriately that they don’t even SEE us being ourselves.

    I feel compassion for these guys…i am so different and a bit hard to figure out…i can’t blame them for not being used to girls like me who really say everything they mean at face value and up front. they’re used to women who never say what they mean and these guys are used to having to guess if she is referencing something like a quote, or if she’s upset or annoyed, etc.

  336.  #336Daria on November 5, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    Starla – hmmm .. about changing it… how about just not responding at all

    its been working great for me

  337.  #337Daria on November 5, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    as far as my peace of mind

  338.  #338Daria on November 5, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    omg im the most beautiful woman on earth!!!

    well im like a exemplar of the beautiful ones

    like fairys we’re all beautiful

    and i just feel overcome like im in a fairtyale when i see my face and body in the mirror, and the way the light falls on my skin

    and im real

    im real

    im real

  339.  #339Daria on November 5, 2011 at 7:56 pm

    im just like that amazing alien creature in that picture i saw drawn that i can’t seem to find

  340.  #340Starla on November 5, 2011 at 7:57 pm

    i guess if he isn’t understanding me i should just accept it?

    i dunnooooo

    whatever:) we r gonna have fun probably!
    except he’s late lol

    thats alright tho…i’m late 2 everything

  341.  #341Daria on November 5, 2011 at 8:05 pm

    i have beautiful tits!

    and a beautiful smile with beautiful lips!

    beautiful hips! ooh wee i carry the sands of time

    in mine

    i got juicy squishy watermelon

    my behind

    my mind

    is soothing like a river

    my tummy is round and a lil bigger

    like ima give birth to beautiful babies

    between my legs thats where heaven IZZZ


    i am beatufiul beautiful

    i am silent and cool

    loud and fiery

    i am the entirety of what it means

    when they say its adream

    and im real

    im real

    oh yeah baby im real

    youc ant doubt me for a minute

    cuz im reall

    yeee yeee yeee

    im the real deal

  342.  #342Butterfly Wings on November 5, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    I just did a workout and I feel GOOD! Soon I’m going to eat some lunch (leftover thai noodles from the other night), then I’m going to have a shower and I might even exfoliate! Hmm… looking after me while I have the house to myself feels fabulous!

    My house is a mess though, so maybe I’ll tidy up after I eat, and THEN I can pamper myself a bit…

    NO idea what time TH is coming over. He was catching up with a female friend after she finished work, then coming over after that. She is just lovely and is going out with his best friend. She’s always saying things to TH about how lucky he is to have me lol… He’s yet to be convinced I’m thinking after Friday night. But that’s ok. He is who he is and it’s up to me if I stay or go.

    So far staying feels kind of good most of the time. But I really don’t see myself staying too much longer unless he really steps up and offers me some kind of “real” commitment (which does not have to be marriage btw).

    I have realised that focusing on me tends to make me feel a LOT better. I’ve not really thought about him too much today either. Normally I’d be checking to see if he’s online as soon as I turn on my computer, but this morning it was an hour before I started wondering about him. This is GOOD!

    Ok going to go eat now. Feeling very hungry!

  343.  #343GingerSky on November 5, 2011 at 8:55 pm

    #288 Starla *Very* good question imo.

    The oils alter the frequency of your energy field, which more or less kind of surrounds your body (in different layers doing different things and spinning in diff directions etc) like an egg. So the “egg” that you’re in gets altered and you walk around in that egg all the time. When you use oils on your body anywhere (if they’re of a good quality) you’re basically wrapped in whatever frequency and energy your oils are. More or less. (Anyone who wishes, please feel free to add their take to this in any way at all.) E-oils are so much more than just on the physical plane. Does this explanation make it make more sense?

    #289 Lyka Lol, unintened pun 😉 xox!! 😉

  344.  #344GingerSky on November 5, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    #288 Starla For instance, have you ever heard of Raindrop Therapy? It’s a treatment session in which a certain set of e-oils are dropped onto your back from a couple feet above your body so that they pass through your energy field “egg” before hitting and being absorbed by your skin. That way, those oils really get even more chance to energetically alter the frequency of your field as they pass through it (and not only your physical body which is somewhat more targeted when you apply oils to skin in a normal way).

    Seems impossible or weird, or lame, or whatever to many people (and once did to me), but things that are very energetically active can have a strong “non-local” effect, which means they can effect things they don’t even touch and are not even near. In fact, most everything has this potential to effect other things (and we experience this non-local phenomenon at times like when we get a “hunch” about something, have a psychic connection with a person, experience synchronicities of various kinds, and so on). So while the oils are dropped on your naked back during Raindrop, they effect your whole energy field… again really wrapping you in those frequencies (which in the case of Raindrop Therapy, leaves you smelling pretty much like a plate of minty spaghetti… and you’re not supposed to shower for several hours after. It’s quite fun to get this treatment then go out in public and watch people’s heads turn as they either smell it or feel the frequency and don’t know what the heck it is, hee hee, or some who give a knowing look, like, “oh you just had Raindrop!”)

    This treatment feels amazing, clears lots of stuff, releases emotional blockages and traumas for some people, helps health problems sometimes and more. Makes me v sleepy, then for weeks or months after I’m full of comfortable vitality and enduring strength, with an amazing immune system!

    Hope this is interesting to Sirens… I so love sharing it… love to share about how our amazing energy bodies work, and how the creation we live in is so cool… feels really good.

  345.  #345GingerSky on November 5, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    #334 #335 Starla Would it feel good to you if he simply started saying more what he’s thinking and reacting with and feeling? Is it as if you’re trying to communicate in a house of mirrors, with a bunch of indirect insecurities deflecting back and forth?

  346.  #346GingerSky on November 5, 2011 at 9:43 pm

    #302 Daria Oh, I feel sooo good that you liked (and benefitted) from my messages to you.

    To be honest I was a little scared… of my own possible tendency to be too directive, persumptive/assumptive, or gung ho, or accidentally judgmental or other unclear things… and you in your honesty seem to catch things like that so well. I am grateful for your beautifully sharp way of doing that! Aah, that feels so good, to tune in and see where your honesty and perceptiveness has gone to each day I read on here.

    I kind of look up to you… as you know… and in addition to streetwise and perceptive I’d say your strong and butt-kicking, which is a very big compliment in my family/world/circle.

    Cat Woman and others seem good at the honest communication too… that makes me feel sooo happy to read!

    Glad my message was edifying for you! |big smiles|

    I hope the oils help you kick the lil critter butts so they voluntarily go off of you, and also the low-frequency messy-house vibe, so it doesn’t come near you into the egg of your private energy field you walk around in and sleep in every day and night |smiles|

    And yes, the CDing is MAGIC… I had no idea… I could go on and on, it feels like the world is surrounding me in love now. So much is opening up!

    I’m even connecting with women about a thousand times better.

    Everything is improving… we ar always in community, and everything we need somewhat depends on each other… and this honest and leaned back way of relating is the greatest. It’s like Christ did, really honest, kinda not worrying who got triggered, but with the greatest love and compassion at same time…?

    I think I’ve been leaning forward so long and so far in life, it’s a wonder I didn’t fall over repeatedly and land flat on my face. Oh wait, I did! (Not anymore)

  347.  #347GingerSky on November 5, 2011 at 9:49 pm

    And Daria, in case you don’t already know this, tea tree and other e-oils are not compatible with the eyeball tissues (or that delicarte skin around our eyes – they’re *very* drying and can even dehydrate our whole system in a way, causing headaches if overused. Less is more.)! And tea tree kills cats. They don’t need to be exposed to it *at all*.

  348.  #348Daria on November 5, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    Ginger Sky – right on for the cat info.

    i can feel the tea tree dryness

    i can mix it with some castor oil for my eye tho

    although most of the uncomfortableness has faded

    Apple Cider Vinegar baths worklovely miracles

  349.  #349Starla on November 5, 2011 at 11:26 pm

    my date felt lame. i enjoyed practicing the tools. he goes into feminine energy pretty easily so it was great practice for leaning back.

    he said that i always have this calm look about me and that he’s never seen anything like it.

    that’s just the siren-ness, baby.

  350.  #350Starla on November 5, 2011 at 11:28 pm

    gingersky, thank you for explaining about the oils:)

  351.  #351Starla on November 5, 2011 at 11:32 pm

    what felt lame about my date is that he complained so much. this is our second date and it’s the second time he just complained and complained.

    i think he’s just trying to fill the silence, but still…i say if you can’t think of anything good to say, then enjoy the silence!

    so tired of these guys taking credit for my calm, happy demeanor on dates, too! Just cuz i’m not being a frantic b*tch doesn’t mean I’m into you!

  352.  #352Starla on November 5, 2011 at 11:44 pm

    i might change my mind about this, but i think i’m going to stop accepting so many dates. I know it’s good to go out and date as much as possible, but I feel drained dating these guys that i know i don’t like too much, just for the sake of practicing.

    what if i could only CD with guys that i felt like i could be into?

    i did feel like i could be into all of my CDs when they asked me out. but when i got to know more about them, i felt turned off.

  353.  #353Starla on November 5, 2011 at 11:45 pm

    Also, dating these frogs is making CF look like more and more of a prince.

    Maybe I should see if I can’t make it so that I’m only dating princes.

    No more frogs..!

  354.  #354Tiffany on November 6, 2011 at 1:10 am

    @Starla – Sorry I confused you with Sweatpea earlier. She can come visit me. And you can, too!

    @Lyka – Not sure what you meant about doors/windows opening and closing. I mean, I am familiar with the phrase, just not how it related to my post. But that may just be because I had a different intention in writing it than you did in reading it. (and btw, that whole post was not directed at you, I was just writing what was happening for me:)

  355.  #355Tiffany on November 6, 2011 at 1:29 am

    Well, it’s 1:10 a.m. and I can’t sleep, so here I am. I am very tired, and had so much excitement about getting to bed early. I even took a bubble bath, and it was lovely. But I think I made the mistake of drinking caffeine too late in the day…arrgh.

    I have to say, I’m having an interesting time going over my impromptu visit from TDH in my mind. (But I feel like I want to give him a new nickname. How about SweetieFace?)

    In some ways, it’s really great. My NVs (most of them) are quieter, and some other ones are popping up. I guess they’re like whack-a-moles. lol

    You see, there’s part of me that says I “should” feel bad about the whole thing. But I DON’T feel bad about it – any of it. I LIKED it. I liked ALL of it.

    And it starts with acknowledging exactly where i was at that moment. When I received the text from that random woman early in the week, I felt kind of bad for her, but then also, kind of JEALOUS! like, hey, why did she get booty, and i didn’t?? lol

    Plus, I had literally just been thinking about SweetieFace and how much I liked him. And I was in a good mood from dance class – and there he was!

    In truth, it was everything I wanted. And it was a good exercise in just going with what felt good, accepting what a man wanted to offer, and enjoying the moment. I did that a lot that night. And with him, I find it’s really easy NOT to float into future-thinking. In fact, I love his presence and enjoy myself so much when he’s there, that I really only WANT to be in the present. I think that kind of refreshing.

    And I really don’t want to complain. Yes, I would LIKE to go on a weekend date with him. I would LIKE him to volunteer to take me out to dinner again so I could get dressed up and look smashing, and we could go out to a fancy restaurant and impress people with how nice and lovely we are.

    But on the other hand, what I had REALLY been wanting from him was for him to stay the night. The only reason I had felt bad about the sex before was that he had not stayed over afterward, and I felt abandoned. Actually, there was one time I wanted him to stay over, but we weren’t going to have sex that night.

    On the same hand, I just really wanted to have sex. heck, it had been a while for me, and it was something I wanted. Not because I “needed” it, or that i needed the validation from someone or anything like that. I just wanted it.

    But, before we did that, I stopped him and I said, “I know that I said ‘no sex’ but I really want to do this right now.” He wasn’t judging me. lol

    And that’s another thing I love about him. I never feel that he’s judging me.

    Before we went to sleep, he warned me that he snores. (But it was only a little, and it was cute snoring – I loved it!) I said I might talk in my sleep. And then I remembered to warn that I might fart in my sleep! I was feeling super embarrassed about that, but he sounded fine with it. nbd.

    he’s a really good sleeper-with-er person. That is, he’s physical enough during the night, but not too physical (i.e. distracting). He doesn’t ignore me or pay me too much attention. And I was awake a bit, and I thought it was just so cute when he fell a asleep…awww *blush*

    In the morning, I told him about the money thing. And I said I didn’t want him to do anything about it, I just wanted to talk. And later on, I realized how great it was that he listened. In fact, I think he did a lot to help me JUST by listening. Maybe that was all I needed, really. I mean, money’s money. I don’t want to date an ATM. But he listened, he expressed sympathy, and he didn’t seem to judge.

    Only now my NVs are kind of coming up, because he said he would call and he didn’t. But on the other hand, it’s not really a big deal to me, so I don’t want to make a big deal of it. Only maybe I should tell him that it would feel good to hear from him more often, even if it’s just a tiny little text conversation or something…

    So I’m worried that he’s judging me or something because of the money. But part of me KNOWs this isn’t true. It’s me and my nasty voices judging MYSELF. It has nothing to do with me. He still likes me. And more importantly, *I* like me…

    (ooh, sorry for long posts. I might spam a little. But hopefully will go to bed soooon!)

  356.  #356Tiffany on November 6, 2011 at 1:51 am

    The other thing that came up was when he mentioned that he thought I didn’t get my period, for some reason. Like I took some sort of birth control that did that.

    To which I just looked at him and sort of raised and eyebrow and said, “I think you must have me confused with someone else.” I was being playful, suggesting that he’s seeing other women, but not being protective or jealous or territorial about it. If it made him nervous, he recovered fast.

    As I then reminded him that I don’t take any birth control at all. In fact, I monitor my ovulation, taking my temperature every morning and track it on a chart so I can see what’s going on. I still don’t think he quite get’s what’s going on with that.

    I hope – hope – that he doesn’t somehow think that I’m going to use it to “accidentally” get pregnant with him. Because that’s not the point (I had someone accuse me of doing that once. It was horrible. I wasn’t even pregnant.)

    And also, I wondered – was he hoping? Was he HOPING that I don’t get my periods? Like, periods are gross, and he’d rather have a woman who *didn’t* get them? Ew, that makes me feel bad.

    He is kind of “metro” (according to my gay friend), and therefore interested in personal cleanliness.

    But I journaled about it and discovered that *I* hate getting my periods. I’ve always hated it. I’ve always been embarrassed and ashamed about it, even though I know that it happens to every woman. I mean, all of you here, obviously, deal with it, or have had to in your lives. My mother was always just so scientific about it. No one ever acknowledged my feelings. I feel gross, worthless, wrong, flawed, unacceptable – I can’t even think of the proper words. It’s beyond evil. It’s betrayal – because my body bleeds without my permission. And I don’t want it to do that. It feels gross. It feels yucky. It’s a nuisance and I hate it. But getting rid of it would be WORSE, because it would mean that I am doing something unhealthy to my body. So I am trapped. And suddenly I feel unlovable. And like I could be rejected for something that isn’t my fault and that I didn’t do. and moreover, it’s probably the BEST part of me…because it’s the part that means I can have children. I means I can have kids. My own little body can create new life – with the help of another person. And I want that more than anything in the world. More than money. More than a job. More than a million clients. So I guess if some man doesn’t see that, and know that and appreciate that aspect of me – then he really doesn’t see me or know me, love me or appreciate me for who I am.

    Okay, I’m going to try and sleep some more now…zzz


  357.  #357Butterfly Wings on November 6, 2011 at 1:56 am

    Hmm… I think I may be getting bored of TH. And I mean REALLY bored. I met a guy on Friday night and he bought me drinks before we swapped business cards, and he texted me yesterday asking how I’d recovered (I was pretty sloshed!) and that he was glad to have met me.

    I replied saying I had finally recovered and it was nice to have met him too.

    He then texted me back, telling me how he’d just been on a motorcycle ride up through the mountains and telling me about the amazing view.

    I want a guy who will invite me to do things like THAT!

    The Phys Ed teacher I once dated suggested a kayaking adventure once too – before he gave up on me, and others have suggested activities that sound like a whole lot of fun!

    TH has taken me to several really nice restaurants and the races, but I’ve just realised that we don’t often do “fun” stuff… I want to do fun stuff!

    He said he was coming over today and it’s after dinner and still no TH. I’m not going to sit up and wait for him – if he’s not here by the time I go to bed I’m going to text and tell him not to bother.

    This would be the first time we’ve seen each other since I snuck out of his house yesterday, so maybe he’s scared to face me! lol Either way, this feeling of unimportance is bothering me a little.

    And what word can I use other than unimportant or “I don’t feel important”? Does that sound blamey? I’m thinking it does, and it’s like I’m saying “I don’t feel important – to YOU” which puts him straight into defense mode……

    Not sure what words I can replace that with though….. any ideas anybody??


  358.  #358Butterfly Wings on November 6, 2011 at 2:17 am

    ARGH help! He said he was coming over “today”, and it’s now 8.15pm and there is no sign of him.

    Ok I have no other plans and am not planning on going anywhere, but do I just sit here feeling more and more angry at him, or do I text him and tell him not to bother coming over, or do I send a FM?

    Or do I just do my own thing and take my mind off him??

  359.  #359English Woman on November 6, 2011 at 2:31 am

    Morning ladies, I’ve been absent from here for a few days, but am back now. 🙂

    I have booked myself a little treat 4 nights/5 days in outer London as that’s where my 2 interviews are and I will then make some time to catch up with family and do some sight seeing like a tourist. 😀

    I’ve been having a few convo’s on the Smooch site with this widower guy, he sent me a link to an Alzheimer’s magazine where he had written a letter about caring for his wife who died about 18 months ago. She was 61 when she died and had been ill for 10 years, he noted that one of my fave movies was The Notebook BTW when he sent the link.

    But you know this is going to sound REALLY awful, like I am some cold, heartless biatch and I’m not but I really did not want to read that letter about his beautiful, lovely wife and best friend…….I felt like a freakin work colleague or something – I wrote back and said he seemed like a decent caring man and I hoped he found what he was looking for, then he wrote again and said I could see why he was looking for a “new start” and I said so are most on a dating site, now he has written this and I don’t know what to answer.

    “Good point but as an oldish hand at this, I doubt very much everyone is as honest, truthful and trusting as you seem to be.

    I have had a number of “wierd” contacts over the past 18 months or so…..!

    I’m open, honest and just a fun friendly bloke; not everyones cup of tea it seems.

    So…..what/who are you looking for?

    C x”

    So now for some reason I am feeling a little pi$$ed off, like he thinks I am some dumb idiot, I think it is because he has said I am trusting…………..mmmmm…..I have no idea where this NV is coming from……

    All other CD’s seem to have poofed away including man who mentioned local pub, I used an Ella “I feel excited” FM and he came back with a 1 line reply naming 3 other pubs in my town!!! Duh!!

  360.  #360English Woman on November 6, 2011 at 2:33 am

    And my friend had this on her FB wall today and it is sooooo beautiful I just wanted to share with the Sirens and it IS about love………..


  361.  #361Daria on November 6, 2011 at 2:44 am

    omg i feel so excited

    this feels incredible

    its like everything is coming together to just give to me!

    like today i just got out the club, and we were gonna take the bus, but instead i called this guy my friend introduced me to who drives a cab, and he said call him for a ride…

    and i did… and he gave us a ride all the way back ! (which is a whole different city)


    so cool

    i was in the car feeling tense like i can’t believe this is really happening with no unpleasant consequences or stress

    im just being given to


  362.  #362English Woman on November 6, 2011 at 2:44 am

    p.s. forgot to mention above youtube has a clip of a beautiful Siren riding along the beach on her horse. 🙂

  363.  #363Daria on November 6, 2011 at 2:45 am

    Butterfly – find somethign FUn to do and do your own thing, whether it’s going out or doing somethign fun in the house

  364.  #364Butterfly Wings on November 6, 2011 at 2:48 am

    Thanks Daria. And what do I say if/when he finally contacts me?

  365.  #365Butterfly Wings on November 6, 2011 at 2:58 am

    I feel the anger boiling inside me right now and I know it’s because I’m focused on the fact that he hasn’t called or come over today. He said he would come out “today”. Not tonight. It’s nearly 9pm here and I am CRANKY!

    ARGH!!! Ok gotta go find something to do to get my mind off him, otherwise I’ll be tempted to text him. Soo hard not to!

  366.  #366Daria on November 6, 2011 at 3:03 am

    wooo hooo thank you daria for changing my sheets

  367.  #367Daria on November 6, 2011 at 3:07 am

    Butterfly Wings – you can say how you feel right then

    if u feel mad that can be like:

    ‘im feeling angry’

    him: why

    me: i didn’t feel good expecting a visit and it never happened… i don’t want to feel like im not a priority

    him: blah blah

    you: i felt angry. i dont want to feel that way

    you might even get off the phone if he doesnt respond with something that makes you feel good

    ‘actually im feeling very upset and i dont feel up for talking right now… bbye”

  368.  #368Daria on November 6, 2011 at 3:09 am

    Butterfly Wings – what helped me to not text when i first started practicing that was imaging that it was having a huge magic effect on my attractiveness…

    that each second i did not text and instead felt my (overwhelming) anxiety, that same intensity was getting transformed into attraction

  369.  #369Butterfly Wings on November 6, 2011 at 3:11 am

    I soooo fail at being a siren! 🙁

    I texted him: Am I right in assuming that you’ve changed your mind about coming over?

    Him: Sorry I’m just out with S catching up… will you be upset if we catch up tomorrow night?

    Me: I’m already upset because I feel like I don’t matter. But if you would like to come over tomorrow night and make it up to me then that would feel good.

    I know… bad…. But I do feel better having let him know I’m upset by this. And now I don’t have to wonder if he’s going to turn up at my house later on tonight… 🙁

  370.  #370Butterfly Wings on November 6, 2011 at 3:12 am

    Darn it Daria – I just missed your comment! Thank you. I’ll try that for the next time he lets me down…. :-\

  371.  #371Butterfly Wings on November 6, 2011 at 3:19 am

    Tonight I plan to visualise myself in the perfect relationship. With a man who adores me and one who does whatever he can to spend every spare moment with me.

    He is affectionate, loving and fun. He’s smart, he’s financially secure and has an amazing love of life!

    TH falls very short of this image… but maybe he’s just preparing me to be open to it when it arrives?

    They do say that the bad relationships are there so that when a good one comes along, you’ll appreciate it!

    Sorry. Spamming the blog tonight! 😛

  372.  #372Lyka on November 6, 2011 at 3:21 am

    Tiffany – #354:

    About the doors closing/opening, it was only meant as a little picker upper. You mentioned being concerned about your lack of money and how you would need a certain amount of $ to cover your rent so I was just trying to say that even though you felt anxious about that, that something would somehow come up to “fix” that feeling of anxiety.

    I hope you’re getting what I mean.

  373.  #373Lyka on November 6, 2011 at 3:26 am

    I spoke with my sweetie last night and he had yet another surprise for me. We were supposed to see each other next weekend and as it turns out, he won’t be coming here after all but…he will be finishing in two weeks and will be here for good as of the 21st instead of Dec. 3-4! 🙂

  374.  #374Butterfly Wings on November 6, 2011 at 3:27 am

    He replied with “Ok”.

    I’m very tempted to tell him I am not holding my breath, or I don’t feel trusting. But that’s possibly leaning forward/pushing the matter right?

    Being stood up sucks. I thought men had grown out of it by the age of 30? Obviously not… 🙁 ARGH….

    I just came across this on FB and shared it so he could see it: When you really matter to someone, that person will always make time for you. No excuses, no lies, and no broken promises.

    I guess I don’t matter much to him… 🙁

  375.  #375Lyka on November 6, 2011 at 3:27 am

    BW, it feels weird to read your “tonight” as it is early morning here in Quebec! It’s a big world after all! 😉

  376.  #376Butterfly Wings on November 6, 2011 at 3:29 am

    Isn’t technology wonderful Lyka? 🙂

    It’s almost 9.30pm here and I’m far from needing sleep unfortunately! Hopefully more of you start waking up soon! 😉

  377.  #377Lyka on November 6, 2011 at 3:34 am

    FW – #360:

    Nice video, thank you!

    I like the way they mispelled “pressence” – I wonder if it was intentional.

    Perhaps not, but I thought it was clever.

  378.  #378Lyka on November 6, 2011 at 3:36 am

    I guess with the time change, more will be here shortly, BW.

    It’s great that it’s already light and it’s only 6:36 am.

  379.  #379Daria on November 6, 2011 at 3:39 am

    BW – oh gosh that feels like a lot of blaming focused energy 🙁

    that can’t feel good for you !

    i would feel so turned off if someone treated me that way (putting up such ‘relevant’ fb messages) – im not a man, but i imagine it would be very unattractive to him too

    i would say, take the status down if you can,

    and really think about if it feels good to accept to see him tomorrow in this situation. if so, then let it be

    if not, then cancel since you still feel upset

    and you have other fun things to do in your life than accept a last minute reschedule for the next day when you’ve been stood up… UNLESS it really feels comfortable to you, (and it might for me, if i felt really reassured by the man… )

    in this case he doesn’t seem to be doing much ‘bad’… it’s your accepting every little ‘crumb’ he offers so he doesn’t have to work very hard … and then you feel angry because you accepted it and it’s not a great feeling way to treat yourself, as if your happiness depends on a man

  380.  #380Daria on November 6, 2011 at 3:42 am

    reading about your situation BW feels so intriguing since i remember experiencing similar thoughts and behaviors before…

    i wonder what is here for me to heal?

  381.  #381Daria on November 6, 2011 at 3:46 am

    that is just not true. I can totally matter to someone and yet they still behave in ways I don’t like.

    it doesn’t mean they don’t care about me

    it just means it’s not what I want in a relationship

    maybe they’re not able to behave in that way because of their own issues

  382.  #382Daria on November 6, 2011 at 3:58 am

    I was stood up by 4 or 5 men this past week, but i felt no pull to text them . in fact, i barely got the energy to respond to them when they contacted me.

    actually i didn’t respond.

    i only just now did respond to one

    and i told him it didn’t feel good to expect us to the meet and it didn’t happen. and i actually feel angry

    but in BW’s situation well since she called herself then the guy just rescheduled

    what would i do if i called a guy to confirm plans for some reason

    and he asked to reschedule them

    well i would likely say ok

    but if he was already late then wow i would feel so mad

    no WAY am i calling him then

    and when he calls i would let him know that is unacceptable to me

    and i would not accept to see him unless he apologizes and i actually feel good

    i wonder why BW accepted to reschedule if she feels so angry

    its like, she wants to be with him so bad, she doesn’t care how shes being treated and how she feels

    she probably doesnt think that her feeling angry is a sign to distance herself from the situation

    its like being with this guy is better than anythign so better take any chance you can get

    oh man that feels uncomfortable to see

    i used to BE that way. that used to be my behavior. wow i treated myself bad.

    and thats ok.

    now i treat myself good

    very very good.


    somteims i have still gone back to that SAME behavior!!! YESSS!!

    finally getting to how this is triggering me

    in new york!

    i called guys when they didnt,

    accepted changes when they rescheduled after standing me up…

    just cuz i was feeling so full and fantastic and in love when around this guy

    but ugh it felt kinda icky too


    and i ‘only had one week’ so i “had to” make it happen


    i ust did this 3 months ago…

    well next time no

    no mas

  383.  #383Butterfly wings on November 6, 2011 at 4:16 am

    382 – Daria: I cried when I read this because you’re so right! Can’t really talk now because guess who’s here??

    Will post update tomorrow.

  384.  #384Ella on November 6, 2011 at 4:26 am

    Daria re368

    Woa, cool!


  385.  #385Ella on November 6, 2011 at 4:48 am


    I want to be really honest about how I see things and how I feel when I read about your situation, and I feel nervous in case it comes across too harsh and advicy…

    I am going to experiment and say it anyway…

    I have been feeling kinda icky and uncomfortable and ‘No’ when I have read some of your posts.

    And a while ago I felt like that but you seemed in a really good place, even though to me it looked like taking crumbs. So I thought well don’t rain on her parade… it is only about how ‘you’ feel AND I knew that if I was in your position I might not feel so good underneath, although I may feel temporarily elated on the surface when the man was there.

    For me like toxic addiction…

    To me atm reading your posts and it still feels like taking crumbs… I would feel terrible waiting on a man to turn up when he felt like… and my feelings tied in with that.

    And I want to be able to say no when I feel angry.

    Also I notice quite a few posts about being in the pub and drinking, well I can so relate to that.

    Don’t know if you’ve seen my many posts about this…

    And I know for me this ALWAYS clouds the issue.

    I have been going out drinking less and less and when I do I have felt bored recently.

    I know how much of a pull that can have when things are tricky and feelings are icky. And for me it makes everything harder.

    And I had to get there at my own pace.

    Not saying it is like that for you, just what I am noticing when I am reading your posts.

    Reading this exchange between you and Daria today has really, really helped me… cus I have been accepting some crumbs from CD1t and I intend to stop it.

    Sometimes crumbs can feel like slices and can taste so sweet and it can feel confusing.

    For me I want to express that I feel angry and turned off and that I don’t want that. And that feels scary when he hasn’t been in touch and then he is and it may well cause him to go away again.

    And I don’t care, I am going to do it because I am more important to me.

    Always tricky too cus as well as feeling all that I feel pleased to hear from him.

    Gently gently, babysteps.


  386.  #386Ella on November 6, 2011 at 4:56 am

    Oh I just sent the most rambly message to a guy on POF who I am meant to be meeting for a date later today.

    Cus I am feeling rambly.

    Got so much work I need to do and feeling quite exhausted, just want to take care of me really.


    Maybe I will re-schedule some work… and cancel my date… and make some time for me…

    That might feel good.

  387.  #387Ella on November 6, 2011 at 5:18 am

    Hmmm, I just had a chat request on POF and the picture was of a huge erect penis!



    And also quite funny.

    I feel amused and like ‘huh?’

    Wow. No thanks.

  388.  #388tinque on November 6, 2011 at 5:44 am

    Emerson – Sorry this is a bit late (was out all day and evening yesterday), and it may not matter anymore, but regarding OceanCD not seeming to remember you, this happened to me with K.

    We had known each other ten years prior, and when we were fixed up on a blind date, I recognized his voice right away when he called me. He feigned ignorance. Turns out he was lying. He knew exactly who I was, but for some reason didn’t want to let on. It took him a year to fess up.

    Needless to say I felt really hurt at the time, thinking he he didn’t remember me, for this triggered some feeling invisible stuff in me.

    So I don’t really know what to suggest here. Maybe wait and see if anything comes out of this. If it does, you could bring it up. I probably would if I was in your position.


  389.  #389tinque on November 6, 2011 at 5:48 am

    catwoman – No one seems to have responded to your question though I haven’t yet been through all the posts. Telling a date you feel uncomfortable hearing about other women is NOT being overly dramatic. It’s showing you respect yourself. It is insensitive for a man to talking about exes, especially early on, so to let him know this doesn’t feel good to you is fine, preferred.

    You don’t need to make a big deal out of it. You simply say, “I feel uncomfortable hearing about other women.”

    You could add, “I don’t want you to censor yourself, yet this doesn’t feel good to me.”

    That’s it.


  390.  #390Tiffany on November 6, 2011 at 7:39 am

    Waking up feeling critical of me. I didn’t get much sleep last night. I know my body is just tired.

    But I keep thinking of ways that I tend to “tamp down” or even just outright stomp on another person’s creativity. Mostly guys, but it could be anyone.

    And then I’m thinking, so I must do this because I tamp down or I stomp on my OWN creativity.

    Someone – or actually, a whole community of people – in college made me feel unaccepted as an artist. I was an art major. And they wouldn’t accept me into the community. Because I didn’t want to do art the way “they” wanted to do it. (Not the usual story – I was craving a more “traditional” art experience, and they were demanding conceptual, idea-based “art” – some of which barely qualified as art in my opinion.)

    I felt burned.

    I have barely painted at all since then. When I have, it’s been enjoyable, but I never keep it going as a practice. I find other ways to be creative. Being a massage therapist feels creative and artistic to me. But I know I’m not “expressing” myself as much as I could be.

    And I am afraid that I am squashing men down when they try to be creative about how they approach me – and I’m doing it unconsciously. But the truth is, I LOVE it when they are creative. I love when they come up with their own stuff, and I don’t even have to think about it.

    I just wonder how or if I come across as being critical without ever intending or even wanting to be that way. 🙁

    thanks for listening

  391.  #391Tiffany on November 6, 2011 at 7:42 am

    You know, I probably would not have felt as bad about the art thing in college if it was just the students. The students didn’t care. It was the TEACHERS who rejected me, who made me feel dismissed, unworthy, and just “not” an artist. They seemed to be right. I don’t “have what it takes.” To do anything. blah. 🙁

  392.  #392mali on November 6, 2011 at 7:59 am

    I’m still reeling from my Hand Analysis. Feeling so overwhelmed.
    Part of me has always know I was “different”- super sensitive, picking up on energies and emotions, sensitive to colours and music- it’s like they give me something that’s not physical. I thought that was me just being slightly crazy. But now I know for sure that it’s not just me or my NV’s.
    She’s given me so much to work on- expressing my emotions without feeling guilty. Working on my intuition, that I don’t feel bad about my friend. I don’t feel bad not being in touch with him or having cut him out of my life.
    I just want to develop this gift of mine that I posess. She said my life purpose is to be a Spiritual Teacher, that it’s a huge life purpose, but to work on it day by day.
    Yes. I’m feeling so excited and juicy, and happy. I will work on and develop this. YES!!

  393.  #393LILI 41 on November 6, 2011 at 7:59 am


    D is very giving during s*x.
    He is pressuring me to give back.
    Friday night I told him that I don’t want a relationship to be just about s*x. I want more out of a relationship.
    He brought it up again last night and I got really angry, yelled at him really loud and slammed the car door so hard.
    What he said really triggered me. He was still frustrated at me for holding back, and that really triggered my anger bc I felt unheard that my feelings about it were not acknowledged.
    This morning, I’m sitting here thinking about it…and I see how my anger is all about blaming him and focusing on him…controlling him.
    I am so p1gheaded! I’m trying to be compassionate w myself…by acknowledging that at least I am seeing my anger pattern. But it’s taking me such a long time to make peace w it.
    If I put the focus back on myself and how I feel, I really see MYSELF and what’s going on w Me.
    I blame him for making our relationship all about s*x, but the truth is…I, Me, Myself make it about s*x.
    I truly believe that we attract what we put out, that the people around us are our mirrors.
    I remembered what Rori said: When we blame someone else for something, we should look inside ourselves to see how we are not giving ourselves what we want.
    The truth is: I don’t know how to connect to him on a deeper level. I am just starting to learn, taking baby steps on how to connect w myself and others. I should pat myself on the back for seeing it, for seeing that I make the relationship about s*x bc that is the only way I know how to connect.
    I set the boundary about no s*x without the real relationship, and it is very triggering for both of us.
    The very thing that he said last night about it that triggered me, shows me that it’s his way of connecting to me, of showing me his love for me. It’s the only way he knows how to connect w me. When I look clearly and honestly inside myself, I see that in Me. And I feel angry w myself for not knowing how to communicate to connect on a deeper level.
    I did it last week for the 1st time. I experienced true deep connection sharing about my dream home in FMs. So I shouldn’t be angry w myself, I should be happy of having given myself the opportunity to feel what it’s like to connect on a deeper level.
    But I have such high expectations for myself, that I should always be that way, and when I fall off the wagon I should know better…hurhggg, babysteps and compassion.
    D responded by going to work 2 hours earlier (at 3am!!!) to get off work at 3pm so he could take advantage of daylight.
    I asked him where he was taking me, and he said it was a surprise. He took me to the house I fell in love with on the real estate website. No one lives in it, there are no curtains, so we had a clear view of how it looks inside.
    He said that he could see great potential, all the things that he could do himself. He said that the house is a great fit for both of us. We could work on it together. It’s at the right price, no urgent renovations, just fun renovations to add our own touch at our own pace. It would allow us all the freedom of time and money for going on vacation trips together, him playing hockey, me going to exercise classes. It is in a small country village, near a new stretch of highway convenient for me to drive to work.

    I just can’t believe…that with all the blaming him for my own shortcomings…my tantrums, that he is seriously considering selling his house that he built with his own hands, to buy this one w me.

    And last night I had too much wine at dinner…I told him how angry I was at myself for wrapping my life around him, that I need to get a life. and That’s why I don’t want to go to the gym with you so I can go alone to make new friends (and cd, ssshhh).
    After I got super angry and stormed off by slamming the car door, he went home (10 minutes away). I was crying like a baby. He left me 30 minutes to cool down and called me. He said I can hear you’re not feeling too well, but I did reserve this evening for you like you wanted, and you said you wanted a fun evening w me…so I want to take you out for drinks and dancing. I said I had too much wine at dinner and can’t drive, and my face is all puffy from crying. He said Put a cold damp washcloth over your face and I’m coming to pick you up in 20 minutes.
    We went…and had a blast and tore up the dance floor. At one point, we just sat with our drinks, he locked eye contact w me, gave me a long warm kiss on the lips and said: I’m still here, see this as how much I love and care about you and that I do really want to be w You.
    He spent the night. I had to block the connecting again w a blaming remark. He just ignored it and gave me a warm hug in response.

    Who is being toxic now? He is stepping up and not buying in to any of my junk. There’s nothing I can do to push him away these days. No matter what I throw his way, he stays there listening, lets me vent out, doesn’t yell back at me, gives me space, and he keeps coming back with more love and affection.

    Sorry for taking up so much space on the blog. But writing these things out gives me a clearer perspective. This is probably too long for anyone to comment on, but if it can help anyone see their own things, than that would be satisfying enough for me.

  394.  #394mali on November 6, 2011 at 8:04 am

    @391- Tiffany
    Awww, big hugs! I know how it feels for people to tell you that you’re not good at something, especially when it’s your passion. I love singing, and I’ve loved it since a child. But when I was younger, I wasn’t considered very good looking, so when I would sing- even to myself- people would patronise me, or not take me seriously. That’s not their fault: their ideas on what a singer should be, will change over time.
    And yet, when I sing these days, people compliment me on my voice. I know my voice is pleasing to the ear, and I try and nurture it. I believe in it. And most importantly, I ENJOY singing.
    I hope that, in the same way, you can realise how truly gifted you are in your painting. And that what peoples’ perception of what “true” art is, is just that: a perception.
    Lots of love =)

  395.  #395Laughing Goddess on November 6, 2011 at 8:16 am

    Hello sirens,

    I’ve been feeling under the weather the past few days with a cold/flu.
    But I woke up today feeling wonderful!

    I feel so touched by the way sweetie took care of me when I was sick. He made homemade chicken soup, and bought some fresh cut flowers, and rented a movie for me called “Marry Me”. He had the movie propped up next to the flowers. Wasn’t a marriage proposal yet still very sweet.

    He told me that he picked the movie out because it was about circular dating and all that. I feel amused that he even knows what circular dating is.

    I do recommend the movie though to all of you sirens. It’s definitely fits right in with what we talk about here.

    Marry Me, starring Lucy Lui

    has anyone seen it yet?

  396.  #396tinque on November 6, 2011 at 8:21 am

    Tiffany – A true artist follow her heart and dances (paints) to the beat (brush stroke) of her own (heart) beat.

    You know this already though.


  397.  #397LILI 41 on November 6, 2011 at 8:23 am

    RN Amazing Me:

    I hope I can help inspire you w my best friend’s story (short I promise):

    She hid behind her hearing impaired daughter.
    Her daughter is very demanding, and the father doesn’t help much.

    A new man popped up in her life that jumps in to take care of her 9 year old daughter and keeps her from waking up her mom in the morning to let her get her much needed rest. He gives her breakfast.

    When they spent a weekend together, he taught the daughter how to count money. He brings her to the store and has her count her money and pay her own things, then has her count the change she gets back. Teaches her how much money she gives and how much she gets back.

    He has 3 kids of his own in shared custody and is more than happy to care for this new one.
    A close friend neighbor (me) comes over at least once a week to coach her daughter w her schoolwork.

    So RN, the right man will help you and participate in taking care of your kids, he will not take you away from taking care of them and their needs.
    If this kind of man came into my friend’s life, than there is one out there for you.

    She proves that all is possible…once she saw her fear, she had the courage to stop feeling like she had to show men that she was on top of her stuff and doing cartwheels to be available for a man, and started sharing her true feelings about being overwhelmed…he showed up and stepped up big time from the start.

    RN, you are a great mom. You will find a man that honours that about you…my friend is proof that they do exist.

    Sending these good vibes your way hoping you will catch them. xox

  398.  #398tinque on November 6, 2011 at 8:26 am

    Lili 41 – This is what happens when you are authentic. You don’t have to have all the pieces in place; you don’t have to be completely healed; you can even be a complete mess. The right man, a good man will see you as the one he loves despite this. He can also sense your work around this, more reason for him to stick around. Who better to reap those rewards than he.


  399.  #399Laughing Goddess on November 6, 2011 at 8:39 am

    My heart feels glowing as I think about him getting that movie for me. He was really thoughtful about picking out something I would like (rather than a Kung Fu movie, which would be his first choice 🙂 ). And he was so cute and proud of himself and thoughtful and I just adore him! He did lots of other sweet things too yet for some reason the movie thing really touches me. I feel seen and understood and accepted and cherished…and those are all sort of outwardly based feelings (like hurt or ignored)….I feel ramble energy coming on…

    Anyway, I feel warm and happy inside right now and grateful for life!

    Also, I listed to some music last night that really soothed my nerves, Jai Uttal and Krisnas Das. Wow, I felt so calm and peaceful and connected to spirit While listening to them. Every note they sing is like a prayer…so yummy!

  400.  #400LILI 41 on November 6, 2011 at 9:08 am



    @TH falls very short of this image… but maybe he’s just preparing me to be open to it when it arrives?
    They do say that the bad relationships are there so that when a good one comes along, you’ll appreciate it!”

    This so rings my bell !

    Like TH, my D is there to trigger what needs to be healed in me…and he’s doing it perfectly.

    All these triggers are bringing up old junk, forcing me to look at it and feel those deep burried feelings that need healing.

    I choose what to do about them. Walk away from the toxic relationship, as it can seem like self abuse to stay…OR…stay to look at the triggers and heal what triggers me.

    D is the one, not the one like in “the love of my life”, but the one that is triggering me enough to teach me how to wrap my life around myself instead of wrapping my life around him.

    While I have been going through these growing pains, he has been coming on stronger and stronger.
    While I have my fits about taking crumbs, he is staying around, allowing the space for me to go through my own stuff.
    I was taking crumbs…and he is doing everything to trigger me to learn how to make myself the center of my universe instead of him.
    This situation is really pushing me to get out there and live my own life for myself.
    I feel loved by D, but in a way that he wants to see me happy on my own. Which is a deeper more fullfilling happiness than depending on him making me happy.

  401.  #401Starla on November 6, 2011 at 9:11 am

    lili 393

    Wow this post really hit home for me. I understand the trigger fest from my own past experiences. I am not feeling that way anymore but I am not even hardly talking about sex with any of my guys. I am sure that later it will start to feel much messier. I hope I can find a way to recognize and “survive” my own triggers when they get like that. It feels good to see you write about them and it’s helping me prepare.

    For now I’m getting triggered enough in small doses to practice getting through those…but that almost feels like fun experiments to me compared to the triggerfest that used to ensue.

  402.  #402Starla on November 6, 2011 at 9:19 am

    LG 399 that’s awesome! I made a Krishna Das station on Pandora recently:):)

  403.  #403Ella on November 6, 2011 at 9:30 am

    What do you think of this as a script?

    ‘Oh Hey. I’m feeling disconnected right now. It always feels great to hear from you and actually I don’t want casual dating and sex. I feel better with a deeper connection and I want to be married at some point. We can still see each other until this happens, if it feels good to me.’

    Any tweaks?

  404.  #404Laughing Goddess on November 6, 2011 at 9:32 am

    Starla, sweet! I feel ready to open Pandora’s box. I haven’t gone there yet but it sounds fun. Do u recommend?

  405.  #405Starla on November 6, 2011 at 9:32 am

    Ella, pardon my ignorance, but what is this a script for?

  406.  #406Ella on November 6, 2011 at 9:35 am

    Hmmm, I am feeling angry!

    Did I give too much?

    Have expectations?

    Accept crumbs?

    I feel blamey.

    I don’t want to feel angry and blamey just cus people don’t do what I want them to.

    I am feeling a lil disheartened today… temporarily.

    And thinking ‘he will never come’ (my man).

    And underneath it all I am feeling strong and ok, as though my emotional muscle is building.

  407.  #407Starla on November 6, 2011 at 9:35 am

    Yeah Pandora is great and it’s free. You’ll catch on quick but the way it works is you type in an artist’s name, and it creates a station of that artist and artists considered similar. Then it fine tunes what kinds of songs it plays on the station based on the songs you thumbs up or thumbs down.

  408.  #408Ella on November 6, 2011 at 9:40 am

    Starla lol,

    Oh yeah, might help.

    Basically I am feeling uncomfortable with the dynamic with CD1. It seems like he is going for some glorified kind of booty call.

    I could be wrong of course.

    When I sent him that FM text on Friday after we spoke and he kinda indirectly blamed me for him not getting enough sleep cus I wouldn’t let him stay over, he didn’t repond.

    He tends to go off the chart completely every weekend.

    So far dates tend to be last minute and he is always taking it sexual.

    I don’t feel very courted sometimes.

    This was a script for if/when he gets back in contact asking for last minute, casual kinda meeting….

  409.  #409Lizka on November 6, 2011 at 10:00 am

    Hi Gals!

    I am new here and since a few days, I have read a few posts from Rori and your answer as well. I have heard from Rori’s book from a friend who was in the same situation than me with her boyfriend. I read it and tried to use the tools but ended up breaking up with P anyway feeling that I could ever get what I want with him.

    But now I have another issue, maybe you girls can help me with this one:

    Since than, a guy who I was seeing on and off for the past 5 years came back into my life. Even if I was interested, we never had anything more serious than one date every six months and then stop calling… But in the last month, we seem to both have change our attitude. We started seeing each other almost every weekend, going on dates, but not kissing or anything… I tought either he just wanted to be friend or he tried something new cause he wanted to make it serious this time. Both sounded interesting to me so I kept seeing him. Last week, we were in a bar and he ended up coming back to my place… well you know. I tought he would not call back since we came back in the same patern as we have in the past 5 years… But the next day, he texted me asking how was my day, and a few days later, he called inviting me to his bestfriend (who’s also a guy I’ve known for a few years)’s birthday party.

    And this was yesterday. I decided I would really practice all the tools, eyes contact, feeling messages and everything. It all seems to work good. We were having fun, but it was more like going out with friends than having a date, even tought I felt there was a little something between us. After the restaurant, we all walked to the night club and while I was thanking him for inviting me because I was having a great time, he confirmed me that it was INDEED a date! Oh I was feeling hilarious! Not only he considered it as a date, but he was showing it to all his friends (who’ve all know our roller coaster relationship) ! Wow!

    In the club, the good time continues and E starting to be drunker and drunker, wich I didn’t mind since he doesn’t get rude or unpleasant when he’s drunk. He’s just fun and cuddly. He started kissing me in front of everyone, and showing that we were together. But it was getting late and people started to leave.

    And here starts my issue (sorry if my story is so long, I tought that I needed to give all the details…). The last of us to still be at the club were leaving. A few of them went waiting in the lobby, so I went to the washroom and than to meet them there. E stayed with a guy friend and 3 girls in the club but I tought he would meet us very soon. When on the side walk, one of the 4 girls arrived and said E, the guy friend and the 2 other girls decided to stay (there was 1.5 hour left). I felt left behind and stupide than he did not come to tell me he was staying and asked to stay also, and I did not wanted to go back inside the club and run after him. So I left the club with his friend who gave me a ride home… I sent a quick message “good night” with a heart. And no answer since than…

    Was I wrong to leave the club without real goodbyes? I did not mean to be rude and to seem like I didn’t care… But everything is so delicate between us, well it was in the past actually…

    I am getting more and more comfortable with Rori’s tool so I know what I can not do in this situation. I know I can not blame him for leaving me behind, I don’t have to justify why I left. But he’s not calling, not wondering why I left, nothing!! I know what I can not do, but I have no clue of what i SHOULD do.

    What should I do? Waiting for him to call and ask. Or call him and comfort him, saying I enjoyed the night but I felt left behind. What is better in this situation, silence or feeling message? And what if he does call me in a few days and does not mentioned the fact that I left without goodbyes?

    Well I really need some advice on that since Im still a beginer and after what I read in your post, some of you have some very good ideas!

    Thank you in advance and PS, I’m sorry for spelling mistakes, English is not my first language. Hope it’s still understandable.



  410.  #410LILI 41 on November 6, 2011 at 10:04 am


    Wow Tinque.
    I so appreciate your comment.
    It helps me see the transformation in our relationship, the unconditional love.

    It feels so different today than it did last week.
    Taking the risk of seriously rocking the boat by holding my ground for so long, standing up for myself, no matter how right or wrong, no matter how he felt about it… really provoked a transformation.
    As you put it Tinque, authentic. I didn’t like my lack of FMs, but I guess the authenticity still came out.

    The hurt really came out loud from me last night…the loudest ever.
    It was the old hurt from 30 years ago of being left behind whenever my parents had fun.

    I was so mean last night. I told him that I want to go on a trip without him and leave him behind to have fun…like he’s been doing with me.
    I said I want to go to Las Vegas w someone I would have fun with and that I wished I could find someone else than him to go with.
    But the truth is D, that you are the funnest person I know, that I can clown around with. I hate that you are the center of my universe! I just want to hurt you.
    After my final outburst was over, he said calmly: You get really aggressive when you have a lot to drink (Very good way of staying out of my junk).
    He asked me if I felt sorry about anything. I said I’m sorry if I broke your car window when I slammed the door.
    His response: I want to go out and have fun w you. Me: Huh???

  411.  #411Starla on November 6, 2011 at 10:06 am

    Ella, thanks for explaining.

    For me, personally, this seems like a matter of boundaries, not scripting him so he’ll “change.”

    So when he calls u for a last minute date, you don’t accept. you tell him you feel so disappointed cuz it would feel great to see him, but you’ve got other plans already.

    You just keep that up until he gets the idea to make plans in advance, or he at least says “gosh don’t you want to see me?!” and you tell him that it feels sooo good seeing him, you just need more notice 😀

    I think it’s as simple as that, really. You might be reading too far into what HE’S trying to establish, what HE’S looking for, the dynamic HE’S trying to create, but i think this is one situation where you can safely shift the focus back to yourself and not even worry about his stuff. Because if you go like this for a while, willing to let go of knowing how it will turn out and letting go of trying to control the outcome, all of that will become apparent one way or another, and he might even “change” anyway.

    hope this makes sense.

  412.  #412Ella on November 6, 2011 at 10:24 am

    Starla yes and also I have been feeling the need to speak my truth for a while…

    I have been not saying anything, however its almost like I need to say it out loud, to him.

    Not to have him change. Its more about how it will feel to me to state that.

    And yes boundaries too. To follow up.

    I feel like I want to express. I have never given him the no g,friend speech before… and I feel like I want to state my truth.

    Also inspired by this from one of Rori’s e-mails:

    “4. Started dating other men casually and let my
    relationship man know (“my goal is to be in a
    relationship that is moving towards marriage, so I
    am not looking to be anyone’s girlfriend… we can
    still see each other)”

    Hmmm, I don’t want to be trying to control any outcomes… and yet I do want to express.

    I feel a bit mute.

    A bit unheard.

    I want to set my intention, speak it to a man again…

  413.  #413Ella on November 6, 2011 at 10:27 am

    @ Starla

    “So when he calls u for a last minute date, you don’t accept. you tell him you feel so disappointed cuz it would feel great to see him, but you’ve got other plans already.

    You just keep that up until he gets the idea to make plans in advance, or he at least says “gosh don’t you want to see me?!” and you tell him that it feels sooo good seeing him, you just need more notice 😀 ”

    Yep that feels good.

    And I still feel pist that he didn’t reply to my FM on Friday… and that he keeps showing up with casual stuff.

    I feel like I want to state my boundary and my intention out loud.

    Won’t do anything in a hurry though… gotta make sure it’s not one of those ‘urge’ feelings.

    Although tbh I have been wanting to express for a while…

  414.  #414Ella on November 6, 2011 at 10:29 am

    Just noticed, feeling all screwed up and mad and like ‘f8ck you’ at CD1? Or just in general…


  415.  #415Starla on November 6, 2011 at 10:33 am

    Ohh okay Ella…I am going to ponder on this for you some more then while i get ready for my day… be back in a while!

  416.  #416Ella on November 6, 2011 at 10:38 am


    Ok, thanks Starla.

    Feels great to have your energy on this.

  417.  #417tinque on November 6, 2011 at 10:41 am

    Lili – And another thing, you may not have seen me way this before, but it’s an important thing to remember; Love brings up anything unlike itself to be healed.

    This is part of what’s going on here. And that you are looking a your stuff and working to heal it is huge. Applause, applause.

    The feeling message though good to use are not always essential, and they don’t have to be used in each and every moment. Yes they can help the message to be received more readily, and yes they tend to elicit a better response, but they are more for your benefit so that YOU become more aware of what YOU are feeling.

    Enjoy him. So far I really like this man.


  418.  #418GingerSky on November 6, 2011 at 11:10 am

    Daria I too ***love*** the apple cider vinegar baths… recommed them to my clients and have had some life-changing miraculous results… have had big tough grown men who work hard labor and administrative jobs come repeatedly to me with tears in their eyes and a lump in their throat in gratitude for that. Glad you know about it, and you’re blessing yourself with that. Feels so good to read.

  419.  #419Starla on November 6, 2011 at 11:14 am

    Ella, I’m sorry! I am still stuck on the idea that this is something we can just honor in ourselves. But this is the approach i am taking right now and it feels right for me, so i am probably not the most objective to weigh in on this. Sharing your feelings is important too! I’m hoping more sirens will address this for you and you will feel clear on the words you choose.

  420.  #420Starla on November 6, 2011 at 11:16 am

    Wow, I want to take ACV baths now! I didn’t realize they’re so amazing…

  421.  #421LILI 41 on November 6, 2011 at 11:17 am


    Tinque, your voice is so comforting right now. Big (((hug))) and Thank You. 🙂

    He went FROM last spring being “I really wanted a comittment w you, but w the way you are acting now (standing up for myself), I’m not sure anymore.”….TO “I’m still here after you sent me___, and I want to take you out to have fun, I want to sell my house and buy 1 w you, I want to go to Las Vegas w you.”

    I’ve been looking for the difference in how I am standing up for myself to get such a different outcome, and I found it:
    At 1st I used to back down and appologize by fear of losing him, chase him and lean forward. He would withdraw and pull far away.
    Now I lean back, no more chasing, I don’t back down and I don’t apologize for my feelings. I just apoligized for hurting the car, lol.

  422.  #422Daria on November 6, 2011 at 11:32 am

    Ella – before I read your exchange w Starla, I didn’t actually feel good reading that message…

    I felt confused and kinda put off… Like of I were a man I would think why is she telling me this? Is she saying I want this?

    I think it would be appropriate if a man stated that he just wants sex and casual.

    Perhaps – and it does sound like ‘urge’ is a concern here – if you want to practice saying this,


    I might try

    Hey I feel kinda weird to bring this up, but sometimes i feel insecure that our meetings feel kinda casual and like they’re about getting sexual. I feel so attracted to you and i felt shy sometimes to say something… But actually I want to feel safe and romanced and not so casual. What do you think?

    He may likely ask what casual means to you

    But anyway I think this can easily be shifted by yes good boundaries and letting him know when he asks that you don’t feel good accepting last minute dates.

    Maybe even that you feel weird and disconnected not hearing from him for several days add it doesn’t feel good.

  423.  #423GingerSky on November 6, 2011 at 11:39 am

    #350 Starla You are welcome… it feels sweet and glowy, melty and sunny and open heart to share that with/for you |smiles|

    #359 EW Glad to see you on here! Was missing you and beginning to wonder. Cheers!

    Tinque, thank for all your wonderful, valuable comments.

    And same to so many of you… I wanna thank you all individually but it’d be a big job scrolling up & down in this netbook screen to catch it all and link info with names etc. There’s *so much* gold in these threads I feel I may have to start reading thru them with some miner’s tools… too much gold to even manage to carry at one time.

    I am noticing today after tender closeness and honest communication and responsible disconnect w NSM last night (after he approached & wanted such from/with me), and after hearing certain comments from another guy here about his “setting boundaries” with the woman he’s seeing, and in stacking that up against how my beloved ex treats me so devotedly… i notice how so many guys prefer/insist/practice to keep a woman close enough and bonded enough to continue fulfilling their various needs, and to set carefully considered and executed boundaries to keep her out of any commitment territory or any place where her needs for a real (and not imaginary) relationship may be able to get filled or take any root… I know this doesn’t fit for everyone’s relationships and vibe… and I know it’s judgments, but they’re judgments I deeply need to be making right now in order to shift my codependent vibe… this represents much healing for me… so wanna share part of a journal entry for today…

    Many men are diddlers… and I do not wish to be diddled (with)… thank you for setting your boundaries but more information and slowness is needed so I can set mine and know who you really are when you some to me with passion and lovingness and sounding like commitment when you’re really not… when all you really want to do is play (play house?)… and I’m just more or less convenient though unique & special… thank you for your honesty, and I have a lot of observation that needs to happen as I slow down for my sake and *observe* you. (Truth? I cannot even take you seriously. You are a well of palpable lack to me.)

    I and only I set the boundaries… for I am woman. I am Siren. You come to me or you don’t get to come (pun intended and more). It is MY domain to do so, not yours, man.
    Nuff said. That is all.
    I do not need you.
    I take care of me.

  424.  #424LILI 41 on November 6, 2011 at 11:42 am


    Daria, GingerSky:

    I want to know more about this apple cider vinegar bath. What are the benefits?

    I’m a fan of apple cider vinegar in my salad and I know it has great effects on health, but I never heard of it in a bath? I’m curious.

  425.  #425GingerSky on November 6, 2011 at 11:43 am

    #421 Daria Pure gold… how to say these kinds of messages ven in this often most triggering of issues… amazing. I like!

  426.  #426LILI 41 on November 6, 2011 at 12:02 pm


    Haven’t seen it, but thanks for the tip LG. I will go out and get it.

  427.  #427GingerSky on November 6, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    Lili & Starla The ACV baths pull junk out of your system. Toxins, muscle soreness substances, old leftover junk of all kinds, germs, and more… very interesting stuff imo… and they balance some energy too. Can be combined w some e-oils in bath as well, and it’s good to get some chlorine filtering going for your water so you aren’t soaking in chlorine too, if you can manage to make that happen. (Gaiam sells spigot-filter hanging thingys as one kind of option for this. I have a New Wave Enviro shower filter and a long snakelike handheld shower head thing, and simply fill tub via shower head )

    Im running out of time right now.. will try & remember to post more info later… though I often get busy & forget (apologies)… basically 1/4 to 1/2 or even whole cup of ACV in bath = good soak. You can’t overdo this ime, and can do daily or more, or less, or whatever you want. Use hottest water you’re comfortable with, and stay in soak for 20 mins ideally (after that water starts cooling anyway). When you hop out, look back at water, bc sometimes you can see grey or brownish cast to water bc it’s pulled out stuff, but it’s not always visible.

    Makes you glow, makes clear eyes, rosy cheeks, fresh skin esp in face (no need to put bathwater on face, face clears & glows bc system gets cleared)… gaze at your lovely self after ACV bath and see. Is good to do before getting photos taken too.

    (Also a slight acidic ph is happy and good for yoni area I believe. Though proper care and cleaning of yoni (incl urethra) is not as we tend to practice in this culture, and I’m just learning (i.e. no soap, no frequent hot water ongoingly, so maybe not taking baths everyday all the time helps yoni… as it likes cold or warm water splash and gentle touch w no soap or hard rubbing or digging around, so it can maintain it’s own natural balance of healthy microorganisms like a kind of yogurt culture… it’s all a balance of course. Can get more info from my friend who know this yoni wisdom if any1 wants/asks.)

    Btw yogurt is the greatest (and cheapest) facial cleanser ever imo… whole milk yogurt for dry skin, skim for combo skin and nonfat for oily skin. Plain. (makes your washcloth stink so is good to use thin little squares of cloth of some kind you can toss in laudry everyday. E-oils can be added, ask me later.)

    Maybe look up and see if Bragg’s ACV has bath info on their site. They offer a small paperback of general ACV info for about $6.

  428.  #428GingerSky on November 6, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    #420 Lili Gold. I’m finding this same dynamic in my onw life and in leaning back too.

    Bye all… it feels kinda bad ot leave Siren Island right now, but gotta go. Love love and more love to all of you, hugs!

  429.  #429Lucy on November 6, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    LG, so cute that your man mentioned circular dating. 🙂 My man said that last wk he overheard two women at a coffee shop complaining abt dating/relationships and he ended up talking with them and “I told them about circular dating… and free therapy… and the no girlfriend speech.” He chuckled when he told me this, aware that it was kinda funny that he was spreading the word. Hehee. 🙂

  430.  #430tinque on November 6, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    Don’t want to contradict you Gingersky, and I hope you don’t feel offended, but whole fat yogurt is good for all skin types. In fact it will help clear up a broken out skin due to whatever. I don’t recommend altered foods which is what the 2% and skim milk products are.

    When Mel (I hope you don’t mind since we did discuss this here) had some break out issues plus she is prone to an oilier skin, she tried this as I suggested, and her skin cleared, leaving it smooth and soft.

    Lillybelly too.

    Even dietarily, whole fat yogurt is better for weight loss. It’s a whole food which the body recognizes and digests more readily.


  431.  #431tinque on November 6, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    This comment went into moderation because I changed my e-mail, so I will post again.

    Don’t want to contradict you Gingersky, and I hope you don’t feel offended, but whole fat yogurt is good for all skin types. In fact it will help clear up a broken out skin due to whatever. I don’t recommend altered foods which is what the 2% and skim milk products are.

    When Mel (I hope you don’t mind since we did discuss this here) had some break out issues plus she is prone to an oilier skin, she tried this as I suggested, and her skin cleared, leaving it smooth and soft.

    Lillybelly too.

    Even dietarily, whole fat yogurt is better for weight loss. It’s a whole food which the body recognizes and digests more readily.


  432.  #432LILI 41 on November 6, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    My former boss had this saying when witnessing 2 women coworkers arguing:

    “Oh don’t worry, they’re not fighting, they’re bonding. Airing it all out is an opportunity for bonding.”

    Couldn’t stand that lady boss, she was soooo triggering. But her way of seeing triggering was priceless!

  433.  #433LILI 41 on November 6, 2011 at 1:01 pm


    That iiis cuuute!

    That they would jump on the bandwagon that way.
    I would want to fold him up, put him in my pocket and bring him home.

  434.  #434Ella on November 6, 2011 at 1:27 pm

    Thanks Starla and Daria,

    I just feel so confused around this. I mean I do like him, and I just keep feeling angry and I don’t know why!

    I feel a bit insecure bc normally with guys by this point they have brought up ‘where is the relationship going?’ at which point I am able to express that I don’t want to be a casual girlfriend, I want to be a wife…

    And that makes me feels safe and good, like I know then that if they are pursuing me they know the deal, and they are not trying to get me in a casual thing…

    Its like stating where I am at, so they can’t say later on ‘well you never said you were looking for commitment!’.

    I feel hella scared because it feels like when we do spend time together the attraction grows and for me the connection deepens and I don’t want that without him knowing the deal about me.

    As I have said, with other guys it has come up quite naturally, and with him it just never has, which triggers the insecure feelings and makes me feel he only wants me for casual.

    Makes me feel defensive and want to close off.

    I guess maybe the strong boundaries could work, in the first instance.

    Like then the only way for him to be with me would be through courting me and romancing me in a way that makes me feel good/secure.

    So yes maybe that is the way to go.

    It doesn’t help that he keeps showing up with free help for my business. Because although I appreciate it A LOT, esp cus of my financial worries makes it feel really important, I actually feel romantically attracted, and this is the capacity I want to know him in.

    I have been playing with this in my mind, like could I just treat him as a business associate? And at the moment the answer seems to be No.

    And anyway he always kisses and cuddles me while we are doing business stuff…

    So I am going with that whatever I need for my business will show up… he is not my only option, and I am treating him purely romantically.

    Like if he wants me that is the capacity…

    Yeah maybe try boundaries first.

    hmmm I feel a lil confused, vulnerable and scared around this.

  435.  #435Ella on November 6, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    I just feel ANGRY!

    Like how DARE he be all over me, all sexual, and then try and make me feel wrong for not letting him stay and then ignore my FM when I expressed that felt bad.

    I feel furious about that.

    So am I supposed to express that?

    I don’t know.

  436.  #436Ella on November 6, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    And you know how Rori and others say often we are attracted to those people who have something we are lacking… I guess I kinda feel that with him.

    Like he has money and power and he is calm and business like, whereas I am passionate and emotional and impulsive.

    Not sure how any of this is relevant… just talking.

  437.  #437English Woman on November 6, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    Ladies any feedback on my post #359 above would be appreciated, I don’t have a clue where to go with this…………usually I am contacted by men who have been cheated on or have fallen out of love with their ex wife, not men who are trying to get over the loss of the love of their life………maybe this is a lesson for me too…………..

  438.  #438Susan on November 6, 2011 at 1:56 pm


    As I have said before, my Sweet Man has a history of being a player and has a history of not getting emotionally close to women by making sex the most important thing. I found Rori after becoming sexually involved with Sweet Man, but I doubt I would have waited anyway. I have a powerful drive and I can’t put it off – this is my own personal issue.

    I did not date others, but I did CD myself. And I applied other Rori principles while maintaining a physical relationship with a man who kept trying to make sex the focus of everything. Although sex is very important to both of us, he has gradually been becoming more and more emotionally attached. This past weekend we had another talk about how deeply he feels for me and how that scares him. He is afraid if he lets go emotionally, that I’ll respond by leaving him. I wasn’t sure what to say to that, so I mostly listened. This convo was initiated by him, not me.

    I don’t know anything about your guy or how things will go, but I am seeing in my own life that a man who focuses on the physical might be doing that to shield his own emotions from disappointment.

  439.  #439Susan on November 6, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    English Woman,

    I’m not sure what I would do in this circumstance. It is really hard to compete with the ghost of a beloved deceased spouse. If he lives close by, why not meet for coffee? If nothing else, he could be free practice for you. Or there might be a sweet possibility there for you. You wouldn’t know until you meet him and see.

    When texting or emailing, you don’t have voice inflection or facial expression to use to guide you in sub-text meaning. It is so easy to be misunderstood when all you have is the written word.

  440.  #440Ella on November 6, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    Susan re 436,

    This feels SO spot on! This feels exactly like what I was feeling inside me… like I could feel that it was being used, as a away of avoiding getting too emotionally close… and it makes me feel really cross, and resistant.

    And the interesting thing is it sets us up at loggerheads, because my fear is that if I let him be phsyical with me that he will leave me!

    And the most confusing thing is that I am at odds with myself! Because I DO want to sleep with him and I am like you… I have a lot of sexual urges.. I WANT to have sex.

    Lol, aren’t we humans so full of issues!

    I still feel drawn to saying something to him about not wanting casual sex type of arrangement, and wanting to be married… I don’t know why and it is just something I have wanted to say for ages and has never gone away…

    And other Sirens are saying start with boundaries so maybe I will do this first and then say the other stuff if and when it comes up… and the moment is right.

    What do you think?

    Oh and I feel afraid that if I put in those boundaries and refuse his last minute invites he will think I don’t want him, although I know this is not true and only my own fears coming up…

  441.  #441GingerSky on November 6, 2011 at 2:30 pm

    #429 Tinque Very good info and apreciated by me |smiles| I see your point about altered foods, right on. Back when I had breakouts, the whole milk yogurt made it worse, tho I ony used it 2-3 times… but you know, I bet that may be bc it was BGH milk or something, or my skin was having a healing crisis…? Please feel completely free to share, correct, add to or weigh in on anything I ever say/share on here. Anytime.

    This is free space imo… and one of my favorite sayings is, “Say your truth… say anything.”

    Thanks |hugs|

  442.  #442GingerSky on November 6, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    #430 Lili Priceless indeed! LOVE that!!

  443.  #443Lucy on November 6, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    Ella, at the matchmatrix website they describe two distinct sexual styles and my man and I have found this understanding to be v helpful in our relationship. He is “physical style” – sex helps him connect emotionally; I am “emotional style” – I like to connect emotionally before having sex (when in a relationship, which is different from “casual” sex). Before we understood this it was a bit of an issue for us; now it is wonderful! He meets my need to feel connected first; I support his need to connect th

  444.  #444GingerSky on November 6, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    #429 Tinque I sometimes put a drop of lemongrass oil (ONLY a mere small drop, or ouchy red burning will occur!) or lemon oil in my facial yogurt for exfoliation/freshening skin tone etc. Do you think that might be a mistake since it likely kills off some of the cultures in the yogurt? Like maybe I oughta use the oils in a toner solution instead, or a mister, or something? (I’ve always wondered about this.)

    It feeks really good to connect w someone who knows about this… skin and beauty stuff is sooo interesting & luscious for me to hear.

  445.  #445Lucy on November 6, 2011 at 2:40 pm

    (cont’d) thru sex. It’s not a gender thing – either gender can be either style. Is it possible that your guy connects through sex rather than uses sex to avoid connecting? (I have used sex in past relationships to avoid connecting, since I am emotional style… but a physical style person wouldn’t do that.)

  446.  #446R.N.AmazingMe on November 6, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    @397 Aww That felt so nice to read it gave me some hope and faith. For thaT I thank you and know any man would be lucky to have you, such an inspiring woman by his side! Appreciate the story and don’t worry I like reading the long stories:)

  447.  #447GingerSky on November 6, 2011 at 2:46 pm

    #294 Emerson I’ve been (both online on OKC and in person) tuning into my body sensations and any mental pictures that come up for me, and saying things like, “That feels really good to hear! Thank you… feels like warm cozy feeling all round me…” or whatever it feels like, It’s beyond amazing that bc of FM I can let men *in* more, get out of my own sexuality into a purer simpler sharing place, and share way deeper thing with them without feeling like I’m exposing my vagina energy or coming forth with my overtly erotic energy (which I have lots of) in a dangerous/unclear/unhealthy way… does this resonate with anyone else?

    Like FMs and other tools (waterwheel, fountain, riffing, etc) make it possible to be in the middle and not veer wildly between grasping emotions, hyper-codependent-vulnerability or intense leaned forward or needy sexuality vs closing down, blocking out, defending, building walls, etc. Wow. Who knew? I can now do what I’ve observed other women naturally doing that I *knew* worked, I just didn’t know what in the heck they were doing!

    And now some of them are coming to me for advice, bc I’ve surpassed them in relating with men bc of Rori. Tinque at al.

  448.  #448GingerSky on November 6, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    #398 Oh, Tinque, this is bringing real tears to my eyes… omg, I better go off and and have a long good cry right now… you have strung my heart on a different harp now, and my song is changing… Lili, thanks for your story of your friend… oh my… welling up in tears now…

  449.  #449Sarah on November 6, 2011 at 3:02 pm

    Rori! I just realized that November “fall back” daylight savings time is an excellent time to Lean Back 🙂

    that’s all… I smiled when I thought of it.. on a walk by the river…


  450.  #450Susan on November 6, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    RE: 443: Lucy says:

    “Ella, at the matchmatrix website they describe two distinct sexual styles and my man and I have found this understanding to be v helpful in our relationship. He is “physical style” – sex helps him connect emotionally; I am “emotional style” – I like to connect emotionally before having sex (when in a relationship, which is different from “casual” sex). Before we understood this it was a bit of an issue for us; now it is wonderful! He meets my need to feel connected first; I support his need to connect thru sex. It’s not a gender thing – either gender can be either style. Is it possible that your guy connects through sex rather than uses sex to avoid connecting? ”

    Lucy, you make an excellent point! I am one of those people who cannot truly connect until after sex on several occasions. I take sex seriously, but I couldn’t possibly know if I wanted to commit to someone until AFTER I had evidence we were connecting well sexually. Sex is so important to me that I can’t make an informed decision about a possible mate until I know how we interact sexually.

    Sweet Man also is a person for whom sex is vitally important. He could not have felt any true connection to me before a sexual connection. He also uses it to shield his feelings – this is by his own admission. I have not initiated any of these heart to heart discussions with him. He seems to want to talk about it now, but wasn’t open to talking about it until after we had been involved for nearly a year. I’ve never seen a man be so careful and self protective about falling in love, but should he ever allow himself to love me I am confident he will be serious about it. It won’t be just words to him.

    I have had to be very patient with Sweet Man as he removes the layers from his own emotional onion, but I believe it will be worth the wait. He has been self-shielding but he has been sincere. He has always been honest and I believe I can always rely on him to be honest. That is really important to me.

  451.  #451Butterfly Wings on November 6, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    Hi everyone and thank you to those who offered their thoughts last night. I haven’t read all the posts yet, but will get to that soon.

    Yep I have been accepting crumbs for a long time now, when what I should’ve done was put him on the back of my horse then get out there and meet someone else.

    My problem though for most of the last year and a half was that I was still living with my ex, so I couldn’t date properly and we had that “agreement” not to have people at the house.

    I’m now a single mother, and I do not want my kids meeting anybody until I’m sure of them. Just my “thing”. So that means that nobody gets to come to my house when they’re home. So things are a bit difficult unless I meet them somewhere. Which I have done and still do. I have lunch with a guy on Wednesday, and the guy I met Friday night indicated that he wanted to go out, but no plans have been made yet.

    I refuse to go back onto the dating sites – this city is just way too small and now that I have Mr Puppy Dog Eyes ogling me each and every day from several desks away, I’m just feeling turned off the whole thing. Ick. I don’t need online dating to meet men anyway – all I have to do is be out of the house and dressed in one of my sexiest work dresses! 😛

    With TH I feel so confused, because one minute he’s being the sweetest thing ever, and lavishing me with expensive gifts, and lately we were even connecting on a deeper level and going for long walks togethre – and then it all turns to cr@p. Again.

    Anyway, he did end up coming over last night (probably because I said I was upset – but I didn’t say anything to “make” him come over), and we talked and he said some very sweet things, and he also said some things that hurt.

    I suppose I wasn’t as angry as I should have been about being potentially stood up – and that was because he’s not stood me up before, in a year and a half. And I told him that the only reason I was upset was because he didn’t think to text me and let me know. That’s all I really wanted. He apologised for that, and all I could say was “Thank you for your apology” then drop it.

    My problem is that I have these high expectations about how he should be, and how a relationship should be, and when he doesn’t step up, I get angry at him. But what I should be doing is being open to receiving the good, then turning my back on what I don’t like.

    I deserve the whole cake, not just the crumbs. And sometimes I get the whole cake (and more) from him, but other times he’s just sending crumbs my way. Argh! I feel soooo confused!!!!!

    393 Lili – OMG you sure you’re not writing about me there???? Although our situations are quite different, there are also a LOT of similarities there too! And like you, I’m making TH pay for my stuff and my expectations….

    Ok back to the story, TH ended up spending the night and we cuddled a lot, even though it was hot, and he had to go to work this morning (I have the week off), so he just sent me really lovely text message, thanking me for being open to him last night etc. Argh! Why can’t he be like this all of the time????

    Ok ok I know I’m putting that on him – it’s MY stuff, not his….

    If my daughter hadn’t been home last night, I am not sure I would have had anywhere to go anyway. And she was getting ready for bed, so exercising or something like that was out of the question.

  452.  #452Butterfly Wings on November 6, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    I am wondering though, with all of the drama going on with us, why on earth is TH still there?????

    And I rarely hear from him through the day, and I’ve already received three texts and an email! WTH???

  453.  #453Butterfly Wings on November 6, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    400: LILI 41 – I think you have it there girl! I have NEVER been triggered as much as I have been with TH and I know I have grown a lot because of it… Hmm…

    And another thing too…. I could never talk about my negative feelings before. Ex #1 would abuse me and call me names, and Ex #2 would ignore me and stare at the TV, so I was “trained” to stuff it all down.

    TH kind of DEMANDS that I get it all out. In fact, he makes me sit there and look him in the eye, and tell him how I feeling or what I’m thinking. And if I start crying, he hugs me. Nobody has ever been like that with me before and I suppose as time goes on I am feeling better about saying how I feel instead of stuffing.


  454.  #454Butterfly Wings on November 6, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    413: Ella – I’m like that with TH every day! But of course it’s just me being mad at me for putting up with his cr@p! xx

  455.  #455Starla on November 6, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    Just got home from running errands and getting a massage. I am really really missing CF today. I wish when he had asked me if i had time to see him on saturday i hadn’t said no. i should have said “can i let you know if i do? it’d feel good to see you but i’m not sure how the day’s gonna go schedule-wise.”

    i was seeing it a bit black and white but now i see a better response, yay!

    Cuz what I said was i’m all booked up.

    ohh shoot. to be honest with you ladies, i wanted him to figure out that i was going out with other guys. aww i’m playing games and not even realizing it!

    aww i dont have to do this. it’s okay. i trust myself enough to not have to play games like that. and i can just tell the truth…”it’d feel good to see you but i am pretty booked up so i won’t know exactly when that day…what do you think?” even a few minutes and i just thought “eesh, i don’t want to schedule anything else into my weekend” so i shut him out entirely.

    i just felt angry that he hadn’t called to make plans earlier, so this is how i showed it. i am punishing him! oh jeez. i feel like a monster when i put it like that. but it’s true. I felt very black and white and unable to just be myself because i felt angry, and i felt like i should be punishing him for not calling and