Extreme Situation: Instant “Love,” Imaginary Relationship, Drinking, STD’s And…Oh – He Has A Baby, Too

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kissmeHere’s an extreme situation: a woman who’s desperate, grasping.

Yes, we think it would “never be us.”

And yet – I’ve been there.

Have you?

Maybe not to this degree. Maybe not so “out there.”

AND – the principles are the same.

You yearn. You want. You feel lack. You miss. You try to make it happen. You pine. You rage at your situation, you despair…

If you can find any of yourself in here….you can fix it…

The Situation:

“Hello, Rori, I need help!

Two years ago I met a man online, and we both fell instantly for each other. How do I know this? Because he TOLD ME that he wanted to be the man who was there for me, he wanted to be the man who cared for me, HE WANTED TO BE MY MAN.

However, upon meeting him I learned that he was in his own stressful situation, which was he had just had a new baby boy with his ex. He did not love his ex, and she liked to manipulate him using their new son. He had gotten himself into that mess, and was pretty devastated by it.
So- the first date HE planned, he had to cancel because his ex decided to leave town that very same weekend, leaving their son in his sole responsibility.

He started pulling away. But he would ALWAYS REASSURE ME that it had nothing to do with me, and he “adored” me, and he just shut down at times.

Then one day, he emailed me, all hysterical, that his ex had just informed him that she has HPV, and may have given it to him while they were still dating. He was absolutely BESIDE HIMSELF and was MOSTLY CONCERNED ABOUT MY FEELINGS!!

We had only been talking for one month and both of our feelings were not only genuine, but STRONG. However we had not yet met in person at that time?
I was waiting to meet him in person to tell him that I HAVE HERPES (way worse than HSV), but after that email I did not think timing would be right.so I waited.

2.5 months after we met online, we met in person. Since his life was so “messy”, the only way we could meet was if I went out there and we met at a hotel. It sounds sleazy, but it wasn’t. It was magical. We, of course, did not have sex. We played around, kissing, and a bit more..but no sex. Nor did he even see me naked (top half only). However I was sick about having to tell him about my herpes, yet after being with him that night, I felt more confident that he would take it well.

He didn’t.

He SCREAMED, SHRIEKED, FREAKED OUT at me, and told me to leave him alone forever! That was October of 2011. I’ve been chasing him ever since.

He wouldn’t respond to me for months, but he finally did respond one day. Months later. About two. And he said that him and I could be “friends w benefits”, but he would never “be with me in that way,” ever. Again. He then said that he was done with all women. He was just “doing him and his son” and that’s all he could do.

I was so devastated I couldn’t function. So I continued to contact him every few weeks or months. Sometimes he’d flat out ignore me. Other times he’d respond, and sound really great! Sound like he did when we first met! But would pull away if we had a good conversation or he felt himself getting closer to me again. This was all through email and text.

Fast forward to now- very few months, when I CONTACT HIM, he’s been getting better and better. BUT, I’ve made every mistake in the book. I’ve chased him, I’ve initiated all contact, I’ve worn my heart on my sleeve, I’ve told him over and over how much he means to me, AND NOTHING HAS WORKED.

I left it alone for over four months just recently, but then cracked – I had to reach out. And his response? NOTHING BUT POSITIVE. He even asked to see me and said he’d drive out here!! ( we live an hour apart, and I’ve had no license this entire time due to DUIs), but what did he do? Pulled away AGAIN.

But there I was still making mistakes. I emailed him the next day, he didn’t respond. Now I know I shouldn’t have done that!! But it seems like if I don’t contact him, he would NEVER XOME TO ME AGAIN. It’s that fear that drove me.

I’ve also spent thousands on psychics…trying to understand this whole situation! Now I also know that speaking to psychics can be dangerous. I’d rather just seek a relationship counselor.

I think this still has potential, even though I’ve made so many mistakes I’m surprised he answers me at all. I just emailed him Friday and today, so he’ll read the emails tomorrow when he gets to work. But the last one I sent him, was me finally telling him exactly what I want (which is to be taken care of). He either will come forward, or he won’t.

But the waiting KILLS me. His silence has killed me for two years. I’m not sure if he’s ok with the herpes now, or if he just doesn’t like me, if I pushed him away beyond repair…I DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO!!

Please he me. I would love to use all your tools, but how can I use tools on someone who I never see or speak to??

Lost in love”

My Answer:

Dear Lost in love:

We’ve all been there. We’ve all felt so wounded, so damaged, so unlovable, so untouchable that we not only settle for crumbs – we go AFTER crumbs!

So – my answer is completely not what you want.

This has absolutely nothing to do with this man. He’s irrelevant. He is meaningless to you. You can’t possibly “know” him, or know about any “relationship” between you – because there is none.

He is “not there.”

The only thing here that will make a difference to you, in your life, to ANY relationship with ANY man is YOU – and how you PERCEIVE “you.”

Everything you say here paints a picture of a worthless woman. A woman who is worthless in YOUR eyes.

And so, of course, you choose a man (and men, I feel certain…) who TREATS you as though you’re worthless.

Of course “sometimes” he “talks” to you when you call or contact him. Sometimes he’s just in the mood to talk to someone who adores him. YOU are a woman, someone, who adores him.

Who wouldn’t want to talk to someone who adores them – sometimes?

And then, most of the time – even an adoring person comes with “strings.”ย  You have to do “something” BACK.

And he doesn’t want to do, or give, or even “twitch” back.

If this story you’re in were a movie – what would your perception of the heroine be? Would you identify with her, even – or would you be able to look at her and have thoughts, ideas?

Would you want to give her advice to get this man?

Or would you want to throw things at the screen, scream at her, and tell her to go out and Circular Date?

Whatever you can imagine wanting to think, feel, say, or do in response to the heroine in this movie – that’s going on in your own head.

You are constantly judging, manipulating, fearing, angering, raging at – YOURSELF.

The work starts with the Nasty Voice, and embracing every atom of yourself, inside and out – even the ones that are screaming AT you.

Love, Rori



Posted in


  1.  #1Tereana on December 11, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    Wow, I – is this the first post? I just saw this up and checked for a new thread. What a crazy story…

  2.  #2Tereana on December 11, 2013 at 12:48 pm

    Well, not literally crazy. We could all get ourselves into this situation, or something like it, and then feel crazy. But we’re not. We are just ignoring ourselves, ignoring what’s in front of us, and making choices that feel bad and then “blaming” the other person, even though we know it’s not their fault. We just don’t like how we feel.

    Yeah, I’ve done that. I’d like to get on my high horse and say, “oh, I’m so much smarter about people, I would never get into this situation.” But the promise or the hope of love is a powerful thing. It strings is along without the other person having to do hardly anything at all…

  3.  #3angela on December 11, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    Poor, lost in love. I completely understand her anger her confusion and the way she imagines, there is more than there really is.
    I can only say that from here on it seems to me it will only get better, maybe this is rock bottom. Finding Rori and her work is a wake up call.
    The thing for me is believing I deserve love, not hating myself and only then can you see a man for who he truly is.
    Believe Rori when she says “this has nothing to do with him.”
    Blessings and love to “lost in love”

  4.  #4Femininewoman on December 11, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    My my my my what a story. I feel like throwing things at the screen and screaming at this heroine.

  5.  #5Iris on December 11, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    Wow! I felt tense reading this. I can feel this woman’s pain, and it triggered images in my head on when I had chased a man before. I remember feeling sad, abandoned, worthless, and so many other painful feelings.

    Sometimes I get the urge to lean forward in my dating life. It often feels difficult managing my masculine energy.

  6.  #6Liquid Light on December 11, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    Wow, that is so sad. Its depressing to me to read stories like that. I much prefer ones that are inspiring. I wish there would be more posts here about success stories.

  7.  #7Shannon on December 11, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    I actually get this. Like I totally get it. When I was young, I used to play pin the personality on the prick.

    When I’d meet a guy who had some of the qualities of my “ideal man”, I would fill in the blanks. Then I’d feel like he WAS my ideal man… if he behaved kindly, he MUST be commitment oriented because that’s how a kind man would be (right?). If he was strong and confident, he MUST be a protector… etc. and et. al.

    Then I became obsessed about him because I was sure that he was THE ONE. He had all the qualities of the one–I knew that, because I had pinned them all onto him! :p

    So I get it. I understand how we can trick and confuse ourselves. For me, it was awful when I was young. I was definitely desperate and any guy who fit some of the bill and showed interest, I just pinned the rest to.

    I hope this woman is gentle with herself. And I hope she finds the courage to let go of him. It hurts so much to break up… but the sooner you get it over with and move on, the faster you can start to heal.

  8.  #8Femininewoman on December 11, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    And here is where the work/play comes in.

    First of all you need to acknowledge that you have fears coming up. Yes there they are, YET if you can be completely open and honest with yourself, you will also know that they are totally or at least for the most part completely false. They are LIES.


  9.  #9Iris on December 11, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    @ Shannon

    “play pin the personality on the prick.” haha, i like that quote!

  10.  #10Tereana on December 11, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    I made two posts on this thread. Where did they go??

  11.  #11Tammy on December 11, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    Rori- thanks for this post! Almost describes the situation I am in-
    #7Shannon- PIN THE PERSONITY ON THE PRICK- that should be a required course for all young ladies to take especially before dating!
    Rori- I am not kidding when I say to you that I see myself in this scenario-I know I must sound pathetic- I grew up in an abusive home and have been looking for love ever since-have never felt loved really- I have lost so many important relationships-been rejected over and over- gone out of my way over and over
    This post makes me think that perhaps out of my desperation to just be loved, I have invested too early and always given too much in every relationship. Maybe what I had wasn’t what I thought it was in any of these ties because maybe I was painting a prettier picture of people than they were. Maybe I was accepting things that weren’t okay.
    I have thrown myself out there on a pool table so to speak and let others bounce me around as they please. I have even done things I am not proud of just to keep someone’s approval.
    I have your program. I really don’t know where to begin. I have started and stopped. I am trying to love myself-really I am. But, I just threw myself at another man friend-out of sheer loneliness. I feel like I have a huge problem here and I don’t know how to fix it.

  12.  #12Tammy on December 11, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    And Rori- I want to circular date but, honestly scared to. I do not want to make the same mistakes over and over. I feel so broken at this point that I don’t want to chance more abuse and misuse from others.

  13.  #13Cris on December 11, 2013 at 3:06 pm

    so true. This way of seeing the situation as in a movie is very very interesting

  14.  #14Liquid Light on December 11, 2013 at 3:25 pm


    Maybe if you keep reading (and re-reading and re-reading…) RR’s materials and reading/posting here, it will sink in. You need to rewire yourself. That’s what we are all doing here.


  15.  #15Dominique on December 11, 2013 at 3:50 pm

    Tammy – This kind of work is a process just like anything else. It takes time to retrain yourself, rewire neural pathways, release old habits and patterns which no longer serve you.

    Can you look at this as an adventure instead of a challenge?

    Can you be kind with yourself, gentle, patient?


  16.  #16Cupcake on December 11, 2013 at 3:52 pm


    I agree with Liquid Light. Just keep rereading the materials. And it doesn’t matter where you start with them, because once you understand the bigger message of Rori’s approach, everything will snap into place.

    As for not wanting to go out and Circular Date- maybe if you just start with smiling at men. Don’t say anything, just smile. Ground your energy in your body and take the dare of smiling. (If you don’t know what I mean by grounding…a shortcut would be to make sure you feel your feet, in your shoes, on the ground. If you wiggle your toes and thinking about your whole body, the energy running top to bottom, and even further into the ground itself– you’re grounded.)

    I did one of Rori’s teleclasses and one of the first things she said to us was to make sure we get appropriate nutrition. Because that goes a long way towards getting your head on your shoulders fully. Rori steered me towards Probiotics once when I wasn’t feeling well, and I can honestly say that taking them really helped me both physically and mentally. I’m not even talking about “nutrition” here about weight management. I’m just talking putting the right fuel in the machine. I’m saying that because your energy in the email feels exhausted and depressed, and it feels like vitamins and probiotics will help you FEEL better, so you can start feeling better overall.

    A while back, I got daily emails from this great website called Flylady.com, that basically teaches you how to keep your house clean. It changed my life, I must say.

    But Flylady says, you didn’t mess your house up in one day, and you’re not going to clean it up in one day. So everyday, she sends an email telling you what to clean that day. Until you figure out how to just keep your house clean.

    The first thing she says is, Clean your sink. That’s all. Just the kitchen sink. You don’t have to DO the dishes sitting in it, the first day. You just clean the sink, make it shiny. And when you wake up in the morning, the second day, you’ll say to yourself “Lookee there! I have a clean sink.” And the next day, you do something else, and clean the sink again before you go to bed.

    So that’s why I say just start out with the smiling. Try that on.

    Please check in on the board so we know how you’re doing. It’s a lovely supportive community here.


  17.  #17Veronica on December 11, 2013 at 5:39 pm

    Oh dear so much pain in that story : ( I feel for her. I see how I am there too, not the same scenario but with not being okay with nothing happening – i.e. if I don’t do something, nothing will happen — I need to see nothing happening as a really good thing.

    *can’t sleep*

    I feel angry when I think of how in the post she lets him ‘manage’ her – doing nothing for her but keeping her interest going with once-in-a-while “positive” contact. This is what is happening with me, I believe.

  18.  #18Amber on December 11, 2013 at 6:23 pm

    “pin the personality on the prick”
    Is there any one of us who hasn’t done this? I personally have a plethora of ‘pricks’ that I pinned personalities on for a night, or a weekend or a season.
    Ugh! I feel annoyed with myself for wasting so much time and energy.
    I love the analogy of ‘chasing crumbs’
    How about instead we sit back, open up, and allow a feast to be placed at our table?
    Cheers, Sirens!

  19.  #19Lisa on December 11, 2013 at 6:58 pm

    I circle dated again today at the health food store… it was nice… and I felt good about it… and not calling “S” tonight… he ask me to if I wanted to call after the music thing tonight, but I’m tired and in pain….

    I’m taking care of me… and not wanting to do much else right now…

    @Feminine Woman Yes, I’m also very clear that “I’m ready for my equal”… and I said it loud and clear in the mirror today…. I don’t know who that is… “S” or someone else??? But I’m ready for him! No rescue required….No therap-izing required just a masculine man that can’t live without me and doesn’t want to be “lazy” in spending his life and energy with me..!!!


  20.  #20Luzydel on December 11, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    I went out again with cuteCD; he called me right away when he got back. he is so sweet, but then I sensed some distance on him, but I put a hold on myself before I push him totally away (as I usually do). I let him tell me his story and bam! there he was being vulnerable, It is so masculine when a man is being vulnerable. He was sad because he may be deployed for two months and was very open about us and if I was comfortable with his lifestyle and being with someone who can be away for months… he gave me the most melting kiss I ever got from a man; it didn’t feel sexual, it was connecting. I feel vulnerable and “melty” Cannot explain it yet!

    I admit that it feels scary, more because of the dangers he is exposed. We will exchange emails and we are taking things slow. I like this one a lot. His compassion and intelligence are so attractive.

  21.  #21Tammy on December 11, 2013 at 8:30 pm

    #14 #15 Liquid Light and Dominique – have started reading the blog posts and learning material on the website- so much to learn! It seems so simple in theory but I realize it will take some work to make it habit. It is like I am going to have to reinvent myself! So, Dominique, I guess I can look at that as an adventure.
    Is it like this for everyone in this process? I feel excitement and triumph one day and then so much pain as something else is revealed.
    Someone told me years ago that she asked God to heal the hurts in her heart-then soon afterwards many painful revelations came to light. It confused her as she thought the process would be comforting and joyful. She cried out to God in her pain and soon realized that He was performing heart surgery on her. Each “diseased” area in her heart had to be revealed, cut away, and examined. The pain of this was necessary so that the new,tender, and healthy parts could function as they were meant to.
    That is where I am at! I am laid bare, open and my heart is being sorted through.

  22.  #22Amber on December 11, 2013 at 8:38 pm

    It is like this for everyone in this process! I’m really working on feeling messages and it is HARD! Practically every other sentence I catch myself and have to re-word something, but at least I’m noticing.
    I love your story of healing the hurts. I’ve never felt worthy of love and just allowing myself to feel how I really feel is sometimes so scary I want to run away. Every time another layer if insecurities is revealed I want to run away.

  23.  #23Tammy on December 11, 2013 at 8:52 pm

    #16 Cupcake
    Thank you for your advice!
    I went grocery shopping in a hip part of town after reading your tidbits. There were so many nice looking men there AND some were checking me out. There was one guy that came into store about same time as I, who kinda hovered around me throughout the store. Not a bad thing – because he was handsome in a Mr. Clean sort of way! Haha I never did get the courage up to smile at him but, I did notice a difference in my energy. In the last months my thoughts have been focused on the problems relating to the non committed man I love. So, I read what Rori had to say about masculine vs feminine body language today and headed into the store with a different attitude. I went in with my shoulders relaxed and a laid back posture. I focused on breathing and feeling light and in the moment. Amazing! Men all over that store were picking up on my aura! And I had just come from work-not looking my freshest! Damn, it felt good! For the last year I have been so focused on one man who honestly did not earn my devotion that I have grown negative and closed down that receptive side of me. It felt good to get that attention! I will actually ground myself and smile tomorrow! Baby steps!

  24.  #24Indigo on December 11, 2013 at 8:55 pm

    Wow, I had a hard time believing this story was even real.

    The whole story makes me wonder how many times she’s even seen the guy in person?

    I can so identify with the longing, the desperation, the fear that she expresses… and yet, in a situation like this, I feel reality can be our biggest friend and ally. Taking a giant step back and taking a long, cold, hard look at the FACTS, and using that to literally shake ourselves out of something. If she cannot do that for herself, I hope she finds someone who can give it to her straight, in a way that causes her to see the reality. Not just of this man, but of HERSELF. She is worth so much more than this madness.

  25.  #25Tammy on December 11, 2013 at 9:04 pm

    #22 Amber- but you are worthy!
    Just feeling what I feel is strange to me too because I coped with abuse, etc. by coming up with another version of the story. Something that blurred the reality of the person or situation. At the time it seemed like a perfect coping mechanism but now I see it only made things harder. How much better it would have been to go with my gut and deal with it right when it was happening! I can imagine you probably dealt with things in the past in a similar way.
    Way to go- at least you are changing and catching yourself!
    Btw- have you read the book: Love yourself as if your life depends on it? I got it through my kindle app – life changing! I have been following the simple advice last few days to rewire my brain- maybe it may help you?

  26.  #26Linda on December 12, 2013 at 4:55 am


    I love the idea of sitting back, opening up, and allow a feast to be placed at our table!!

    I’ve been playing “pin the personality on the prick” the last 5 days after only just one date and I’ve had enough!

    I can really identify with the heroine in this story, and I often worry (especially the last 5 days after my date) that perhaps I was not clear enough, obvious enough, soft enough, expressive enough… or at all. Perhaps I should text him something funny? Then reading this blog was a massive slap in the face. What am I doing? I hardly know this man!!

  27.  #27Indigo on December 12, 2013 at 6:21 am


    “So, Dominique, I guess I can look at that as an adventure.
    Is it like this for everyone in this process? I feel excitement and triumph one day and then so much pain as something else is revealed.”

    Yes, it’s like this for everyone. Or, I can speak for myself. Yes, and the going can be slow. Each individual has their own pace and their soul’s own way of healing things and working things through, and it can take time. Sometimes months, years. But then you look back in wonder and realize how much better things are. And the spells of pain get less in frequency and intensity, and you become more resilient and it becomes easier to return to yourself, to return to equilibrium, and you become versed in the language of your own feelings.

    If you are scared to Circular Date, don’t push it to the point that it feels uncomfortable. Spend some time, lots of time, taking care of and loving you, and the rest will come naturally in time.

  28.  #28prplpsn28 on December 12, 2013 at 6:43 am

    Hi! Signing on to new thread.

  29.  #29LoveAlways on December 12, 2013 at 6:52 am

    Rori’s answer to Lost In Love was very true and to the heart of the matter. H E A L I N G yourself comes first. Lost In Love, start with commitment blueprint – the healing phase – I think Virginia Clarke is the guest on the segment.

  30.  #30Dominique on December 12, 2013 at 7:10 am

    Tammy- 21 – Yes this can feel painful, as layers of protection are peeled away revealing all kinds of great stuff, yet also letting loose anything you may have stuffed away. Yet it’s ALL good. You can learn to love and embrace the bad feeling stuff as well.

    This may help. Also check out the related posts at the bottom.



  31.  #31Melene on December 12, 2013 at 9:15 am

    If I was starving and someone offered me actual crumbs of food like the crumbs at the bottom of their very full bag of chips, or the crumbs in the bottom of a very full box of crackers or the crumbs left over from slicing a strawberry shortcake, I’d be pretty angry. And I wouldn’t stick around for long. I would make my own delicious cake!

    Why is it so different in romantic relationships? A guy offers me love crumbs — a phone call every year, an e-mail every six months, a kind words every time I corner him into it — and I devour them happily, desperately. I obsess about those crumbs and I can’t wait for more.

    I even hate the word “crumbs”. It’s gross and crummy.

    And I think RR is right. Accepting crumbs has nothing to do with the guys at all. It has to do with our own histories and definitions of what love is and what it feels like. And we probably learned (and maybe a lot of guys learned too) that love is hard- earned and scarce and you have to scrounge around for it.

    Love is never crumb-y. We can make our own cakes and we can give ourselves love.

    I’m grateful for Lost in Love’s story for reminding me of this.

  32.  #32Miss Bells on December 12, 2013 at 9:38 am

    Reading this story I got tense. I can relate as my younger self. But in my story the guy DID marry me–three times, and proceeded to shred me. The first one wanted my family’s money. The second one was just crazy. No blame. The third one had some solid qualities but was so haunted by the past that he always disappointed in the end–right up to his death at 53 years old five years ago.
    HS has had his evil moments, but as I changed he changed. That is why I am still here. I didn’t wait for him to be “better”. There is no waiting.

  33.  #33Cupcake on December 12, 2013 at 10:00 am

    Dear Sirens-

    I read somewhere once that anything that pokes at you with urgency is a bad idea.

    Like window salesmen, who tell you that if you “buy today!” you’ll get 85% off.

    If the price isn’t available tomorrow, it probably isn’t a good price today, either. In my opinion.

    Which is how I slide past the tug to call the guy who didn’t step up. Sometimes the idea of calling him leaps to mind, like a pan-handler jumping in front of me on the sidewalk and looking at me with tearful eyes, explaining that he needs my spare change for his sick kid.

    I’m a softy for panhandlers with tearful eyes. And I have learned to walk away.

    So to the impulse to text the guy who didn’t step up, I say, “Um…no. Not today, friend.”

    The same way I would to the panhandler. And not because I don’t WANT to give to the panhandler. On the off chance that maybe he does have a sick kid waiting for him to bring back some delicious smelling Chicken McNuggets and McDonalds fries. It’s not gonna cure him, heck, it’s not even going to nourish him- but oh, that aroma intoxicates!

    I say, no. I have to walk past my own inner panhandler, who has the most tearful eyes of all, who wants me to bankroll his lies in order to feed his false justification with the smell of food.

    It seems to be no coincidence that every time I read, on this board, of a woman contacting a man who’s stepped back, it 1.) fails to elicit the desired response and 2.) makes her wish she hadn’t done it.

    I say, “Thank you for putting first” to all my sisters who’ve taken out their wallets for the Panhandler. (Not implying that I haven’t done it in the past. Just not the recent past.)

    So. I am slipping past the Panhandler on the sidewalk. Instead, I am ducking into the gym to exhaust myself on the treadmill, where I can stare at the numbers and say, “At some point, when this mileage on this screen is at a number I don’t know– I will no longer care that I haven’t heard from him in 19 days. The number of days will be the number I don’t know, then. And the mileage on this machine will be the number I care about, then. The number that impacts my life.

    I am slipping past the Panhandler, onto the treadmill. Yep. McDonald’s fries don’t waft a siren song to me. Honestly, they are white noise that makes me want to change the channel.

    Today, though…part of me just wishes I had a river that I could skate away on….


  34.  #34Cris on December 12, 2013 at 10:07 am

    Cupake: bravissima!

  35.  #35Lisa on December 12, 2013 at 10:19 am

    WOW leaps and bounds today! first

    @Luzydel that sounds wonderful! <3
    @Indigo <3

    "S" called me since I didn't call him…. and then I was tired so chatted a few moments than I said I needed sleep…

    my therapist today said she can see how healthy I'm being by not leaping into this with "S" b/c of the flags… and we talked about my patterns and how I'm breaking them… and discussed my little me… and how hard it was having to be grown up at age 6… and maybe that is why I attract peterpan… men… Little me still isn't wanting to grow up b/c she never had a childhood….

    So, how my deep seeded belief that others should come before me… is also attracting men that want to be taken care of, who want me to be the RESPONSIBLE one…

    "M" was very responsible and that felt good, but he wasn't emotionally healed enough or mature enough … this one is emotionally mature enough but not seemingly responsible enough…

    But how can I take care of me, no matter what… and how I'm deepening my care for myself and my limits… on giving… etc…

    Anyways, I'm feeling good about my picker now… more healthy picker, more realistic instead of pie in the sky picker ( oh things will get better, or change) which hasn't served me well… how about this is the way they are, take it or leave it… and if "he" whomever "he " is at any given moment doesn't work, then don't try and 'fix" it…

    My equal…that is my focus now… what would that feel like.?.. someone that puts energy into the dates, shows me he is really interested in me, can communicate, meet me… and someone I can grow with, not someone I need to bend myself for….or give up my needs for… pondering…

    Just sayin… thinking outloud


  36.  #36Cupcake on December 12, 2013 at 10:41 am

    Cris- Thank you.

    Lisa- Hooray!

  37.  #37Liquid Light on December 12, 2013 at 10:55 am

    Lisa, this sounds like a big leap forward and breakthrough for you! Hoorah! Congrats and go easy, maybe don’t make any big decisions re. this guy, just try to sit back and observe for a while? You go girl!

  38.  #38Indigo on December 12, 2013 at 11:58 am

    hey Sirens,

    I need some virtual hugs and support tonight.

    I feel like I am going crazy.

    After doing so well with getting over D, and really feeling so distracted and light and happy the last two weeks, tonight I feel like I have sunk back into the pit. Something that was said on Facebook makes me wonder and it triggered something I have always worried about, and I feel as if I have lost the plot.

    Is this a call to love that part of myself? The part that feels like it’s hyperventilating because it’s something I’m so scared of? Something I feel like I have no right to be scared about, no right to ask about? And yet it does, affect me. I feel hurt, and I feel like I’m losing it. D has cut contact, and for the most part I have been able to convince myself that it’s for the best, but tonight it just feels awful because of this one thing. It no longer feels rational and understandable, it feels terrible.

    Ugh. I just. Can’t.

    I feel like a crazy person, and I know I’m not, and I just don’t know what to do here. I HATE that something like this has the power to affect me like this. I feel like I’m supposed to make peace with it and I don’t want to, because it triggers me so deeply.

  39.  #39Sequoia on December 12, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    This is a great post and I have been there in another form. What I would not recommend so for this women is circular date. I feel she would need to just be happy with being by herself , discovering her worth without the context of man for a start, as the danger of getting hang up with another man is just to hight for a women in this condition. I am speaking of myself here so, that s how I feel about myself. I felt the need for a break from man and face my fears of being alone and get into my boy energy doing things that I wanted to do for a long time but never realy did. I started cooking gourmet meals for myself, going to the gym, doing creative things like making myself and friends perfume, reading books, thinking about things i want to do with my life, where I want my work to go. And now I am finding myself in environments were there are more man, like in the gym, at my new work…and I sometimes focus on the rori tools but often I am just focused on how I feel and how great and grateful i feel that I am doing these things for myself. I am also working with the book Celebrate yourself , were I am looking at my expectations, my selftalk so that I can realy feel more worthy. I am planning to start online dating again in March and I am starting a salsa dance course in Jan….and that feels just right, taking time out to focus on nurturing mself, so that I can atttract better quality man. And I feel very proud of myself as I havn#t contacted my ex for his birthday, I am not after crums anymore ๐Ÿ™‚

  40.  #40Amber on December 12, 2013 at 12:08 pm

    Breathe, and feel

  41.  #41Dominique on December 12, 2013 at 12:09 pm

    Indigo – I’m so sorry for your pain. I SO understand. Yes maybe it’s the finality of this cutting off which has hit it home for you which has triggered this in you.

    I think it’s another layer peeling away exposing a raw wound not fully healed, maybe tucked away for awhile.

    You are so right that this is a call to send yourself more love, find soothing in any way you can.

    Please let me know if you need to talk.

    Much love to you.


  42.  #42Indigo on December 12, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    Thank you Amber xxx

  43.  #43cupcake on December 12, 2013 at 12:19 pm


    Sending you light and love.
    You ARE moving forward. I can see it, feel it, and am sure I speak for everyone on the board in saying that.

    Maybe if you assume that Facebook is your guru here, and the universe is using it to try to knock you off your new found balance.

    That is a good thing.

    You are not crazy. This learning curve makes the self talk radio station keep changing channels, til we learn the number of the station we want to listen to.

    And yes, breathe.


  44.  #44Femininewoman on December 12, 2013 at 12:20 pm


  45.  #45Indigo on December 12, 2013 at 12:22 pm


    I would love to talk. My mom is not here, as my family has gone away for the weekend, so I’m by myself and I feel like I’m losing it.

    You are so right that this is triggering an old raw wound, one that I’ve never wanted to go close to, because it hurts too much, and I hate it too much… which is a strong word for me to use, because I don’t hate anything.

    I feel sad and very raw and exposed tonight ๐Ÿ™

  46.  #46Liquid Light on December 12, 2013 at 12:32 pm


  47.  #47Indigo on December 12, 2013 at 12:34 pm

    Thanks Liquid Light xoxo

  48.  #48Indigo on December 12, 2013 at 12:46 pm


    I know you are right. I know I am being triggered “deliberately” in one of my most painful places.

    I just feel at a loss. This requires a clarity and a knowing that I just do not have.

    Thank you xxx

  49.  #49Indigo on December 12, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    Thank you Feminine Woman xoxo

  50.  #50Dominique on December 12, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    Indigo – Email me.


  51.  #51Mo on December 12, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    Hello Sirens,
    I thought I might ask for some help. I am a bit wobbly. I wrote last year when the guy I was seeing for a year moved down to the beach. I was advised to move on with my life etc… It was great advice and I followed it. During that year the beau would show up at different times where we get together. It was fine with me. Let me explain .. we have both been married and divorced. Both have grown kids and grandkids. So neither of us were looking for marriage.
    Ok… he moved back from the beach after 6 months. We did not exactly go back to where we were before but did see each other. Then he moved again 45 minutes away. During this time I just went with the flow. It bothered me some but I did not want to make an issue out of the pulling back he was doing. In August 2012 I was at his house when an argument ensued. I had never seen him lose his temper the whole time we had been together. Nor had I ever seen him get upset, flustered or anything. He was a very mellow guy. But that night he blew up and threw me out of his house. I left . I was more surprised at his actions than upset. I knew this was unusual for him.
    I did not contact him . After awhile he texted me just saying hello. I would respond with the same. This has gone on for a year. A couple of months ago I got the courage up and actually phoned him. He did not answer but returned my call. We talked for a bit and that was it. I have texted on and off a few different times and he has done the same. I did that because a mutual friend of ours said he had been asking about me.
    In our conversation I learned that beau had become a new grandpa last year and was expecting another. I texted him last week asking if the new grand had come and he replied yes with details.
    I do not want to lean forward but at the same time I am not feeling I want him to be a beau again. I feel more inclined at this point to want him as a friend. Does that make me wishy washy? Now my dilemma…because I feel this way would it be so awful or forward leaning to wish him a happy birthday tomorrow?

  52.  #52April Rose on December 12, 2013 at 1:27 pm


    Can’t help feeling curious about what it is that seems to have so much power over you.

    I have a couple of those things too.

    Sending hugs (and cakes if I could :-))

  53.  #53sophie on December 12, 2013 at 1:41 pm

    (((INDIGO))) So much love to you x I know acutely how intense and terrifying that can feel x I hope that Dominique can help xIs there clarity and knowing? I’m not so sure – I wonder if there is only feeling and going to our head is what we do to try and escape that x I know in part my therapy is designed to make me feel regardless of whether either me or my therapist has a clue what it’s about – most of those really hugely raw triggers are preverbal I think x that would explain the level of incomprehensible terror for me and inability to self-soothe when it happens x I really do need another person to help me x

    Lisa – your caution feels very wise to me though I’m unsure if my caution is born of cynicism – I hope not I guess the line between me being cynical and me being self protective and cautious is remaining open yet curious, warm yet uncommitted

    Cupcake – such a wonderful analogy It feels magical (maybe cos we don’t have panhandler’s) but it makes the point exactly – that just because we want to, could do, perhaps feel we should do doesn’t mean we have to

    Riding my own wave, enjoying the solitude I have claimed for myself. It feels so good to be out of the city and have some nature around me. It feels so good to be in a different environment and have lots of yummy things like a fireplace and a tv in the bedroom and noone telling me off (CDB) for being messy ๐Ÿ™‚ I am delighting in my mess

    It feels good to tackle my fears head on – i’m submitting freelance work daily and the process terrifies me – I don’t know if ‘i’m good enough’ I’m practising praising myself regardless for everything. I’m making lists and lists. I got an interview today which felt like a whoosh of surprise – I want that job and I’d forgotten I’d applied – well done me!!! I will prepare then try to detach from the outcome – what will be will be

    I didn’t contact B even though I knew he was ill after surgery on his teeth – I questioned whether ‘he was going to be cross with me and use it against me’ but I thought noooo I’m going to lean back – I would have done in the dating days and i’m going to now and he leaned forward – not with a reprimand – no mention of his teeth at all just a nice text creating contact with me

    Now, I’m back to leaning back, no night night text – i’m creating the space for me and it feels lovely I have no urgency toward him leaning forward I just feel delight remembering what this is like when i leave it up to him

  54.  #54sophie on December 12, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    Hi Mo – wishy washy or not it’s up to you what feels good to you. Would you feel good texting him or do you have some reservation about that? What’s the reservation? xx

  55.  #55sophie on December 12, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    Sequoia – I agree – there are definitely times when I would love to recommend not dating and just learning how to be happy all by oneself – I have experienced some of the happiest times of my life and great healing that way – I feel joy for you that you have experienced such a happy turnaround ๐Ÿ™‚ xxx

  56.  #56Cupcake on December 12, 2013 at 2:54 pm

    Whether or not you say happy birthday doesn’t feel to me like it’s what your real question is,

    It feels to me like you’re trying to sort out your feelings around this man. If you’d written, “Hey, a guy I used to date and now exchange texts with from time to time is having a birthday. Think it’s okay to text him HB?” – then I’d think that was your question.

    Your email is detailed and has real feeling woven into it, though. I can sense your shock when he blew up at you, and other parts of the story feel really vivid. It feels to me like there may be a lingering wish to interact with this man on a more intimate level.

    Maybe that’s why you feel wobbly? Because what your telling yourself isn’t what you really feel?

    I’m just asking.



  57.  #57Silver-Tongued Siren on December 12, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    what would you do, when someone forgets your birthday? bio dad has becoming warmer with me again (after a lot of cold behavior including court which ended a year ago, over our mutual child). He feels more open to me, makes eye contact, has conversations, hugs me now, *lingers*, flirts, even, is more willing to spend time together, has helped us out lately a few times when I “needed” him.

    (He helped by going along to the ER with me, or when I needed someone to sit with us at the hospital so I could go in ICU or when i took our child to the hospital. He brought us all kinds of supplies and homemade soup when we were sick recently and sat with us for a long time over a couple days, went with me to the er another time..basically whatever I asked.), though he hasn’t been initiating any dates or time together (it’s possible a lot of it has to do with feeling jealous of me getting more time with our child and he’s waiting for me to take some specific action, (maybe asking him to watch the child more?) but I’m lost as to what.)

    regardless, he’s much warmer.

    And he remembers my birthday every year.
    I spoke to him the day before my birthday and he mentioned his car trouble, so I (since he’s been so helpful), offered to pick him up from the car place or drive him to work if needed. It’s possible he’s stressed and really did forget my birthday, but what if he just ignored it? like reinforcing that he has no responsibility to be in contact with me or something?

    I guess I can’t say much other than feeling sad not to hear from him or happy if he finally tells me happy birthday. And I can’t really make any judgements on it either, I can only respond to what he does or doesn’t do – by responding to his initiated contact, or by being less available.

    I feel frustrated that I’m thinking about this enough that it bothers me. I probably shouldn’t be thinking about it at all. Not in front of me, doesn’t exist.

    what would you do?

  58.  #58Lisa on December 12, 2013 at 6:29 pm

    @Indigo I would have to agree that is a call to love that part of yourself! All of the deep dark places need to be loved.. accepted… and it is a gift! {{{{hugs}}}} <3

    @Sophie,,, yes and I agree stay warm, open, curious and uncommitted <3

    and it is more of being aware than caution… still loving him as much as I do and I do… there is nothing to do but wait and the love it there no matter what happens!

    and I'm totally OPEN to Mr Right whomever he is??? To show up! That might be "S" and it might not… I'm visualizing him walking up to me and smiling… that feels good…

    Love to all!

    seeing cupcakes name so much has me craving cupcakes.. ugg I don't eat cupcakes… now what? LMAO


  59.  #59Femininewoman on December 12, 2013 at 7:01 pm


  60.  #60Femininewoman on December 12, 2013 at 7:02 pm

    Happy Birthday Silver Tongued Siren

  61.  #61Tereana on December 12, 2013 at 7:53 pm

    Shannon – I loved your description of “Pin the Personality on the Prick”! lol. So real, the way you described it. That was just great.

    And as a board game, I think it could be very amusing ; )

  62.  #62Amber on December 12, 2013 at 8:16 pm

    I think I’ve made a little breakthrough today. Last night I was listening to ‘modern siren’ on my way home and one of the guests was on stage and she realized that when she’s communicating with feeling messages her energy was completely different when it felt like she was saying the feeling message TO HERSELF. Telling herself she was pissed or whatever more than telling the man. That must have sunk in because all day today i have been acknowledging out loud (under my breath, sometimes) every feeling that shows up. I even banged my face into something and without thinking said “i feel a pain in my chin.”
    The beautiful thing about this is that I’m FEELING everything for the first time. By ‘marking’ each feeling as it happens I feel like I’m giving myself permission every time to feel that emotion without judgement. I feel joyous and accomplished!
    Cheers, Sirens!

  63.  #63cupcake on December 12, 2013 at 8:40 pm

    Yay, Amber!

  64.  #64Veronica on December 12, 2013 at 8:40 pm

    Cupcake โ€“ The panhandler metaphor is brilliant โ€“ it works for me. Thank you.

    Lisa โ€“ 32 – Your post triggered some stuff for me. The doing too much and trying to figure out what is enough is something Iโ€™ve been bothered by. Iโ€™m thinking of asking myself questions because Iโ€™ve noticed that I just jump in and assume family needs help. Questions like: asking the person if they need help will jolt me into realizing what Iโ€™m doing. Also if Iโ€™m okay with asking for help for myself?
    I really liked what you said about your picker.

    ((((Indigo)))) Strength and comfort to you. I hope that you have a really good birthday this weekend even with all this pain you’re feeling.

  65.  #65Amber on December 12, 2013 at 8:42 pm

    Thanks, Cupcake!

  66.  #66Indigo on December 12, 2013 at 8:43 pm

    Thank you dear sweet sophie, and lovely Lisa.

    I appreciate the love and support. xox

  67.  #67Indigo on December 12, 2013 at 8:54 pm

    Thank you dear April Rose, those cakes would feel pretty good about now.

    In truth what it is, I feel so silly for writing this, but it actually causes very intense fear and pain… There is a girl that I became friends with when D and I were still together. Now, friends is a strong word because she is one of those women I just instinctively keep a bit of a distance from, but she was nice enough to me. The reason I would keep a bit of a distance from her is I just got a “predatorial” vibe from her – the kind of girl who would flirt with other women’s men with no regard for the discomfort of that woman. I am highly put off and turned off by that kind of thing. I always got that “predatorial” vibe from her when D and I were at a party, and it just made me feel queasy and terrified and extremely uncomfortable (more so also obviously because of the issues D and I had where he was not being so attentive or committed). Since we have been split up I have noticed this girl in subtle ways (Facebook etc. and the one party where I have seen them both) here and there inveigling her way in with D and him also sort of doing this with her and I don’t think they have gone on a date, though I don’t really know. But it’s like a feeling where my worst fears from a while building up seem to be confirmed in the most sickening-feeling way.

    There is a story from my past though that I don’t have time to tell now but may do later, that is making it so much worse and triggering me big time.

    Please don’t judge me! I know how jealous and silly I must come across.

  68.  #68Indigo on December 12, 2013 at 9:07 pm

    Thanks (((Veronica)))

  69.  #69cupcake on December 12, 2013 at 9:37 pm


    you don’t sound jealous or petty. We have ALL been there.

    And those predatory girls are so hard. I believe, as I am guessing you do, that women are my allies. So I often feel defenseless against those women who smile to my face while sizing up how she can “win” in some completion going on in her own head.

    I applaud you for being wary of her.

    It feels like your response to the situation is pretty much knee jerk female response. Hopefully as we grow and learn it is easier to shrug it off in our Diva awesomeness. It is just that those girls, the ones who create division instead of sisterhood, those girls aim to twist the knife however they can.

    It’s hard to resist the impulse to react.

    We’ve all been there.

  70.  #70Silver-Tongued Siren on December 12, 2013 at 10:26 pm

    *thank you*, femininewoman!

    I must really need some love right now, that almost brought tears to my eyes! thank you for thinking of me!

  71.  #71Millie on December 12, 2013 at 10:39 pm

    Just read this post. I am with you FeminineWoman throwing things at the screen. But then I find myself laughing because I’m sure SO many people want to throw things at MY screen, including me! It’s nice to be able to step out of your screen and laugh for a minute! This woman’s story is very extreme, but I can empathize with chasing after crumbs and being deluded into an imaginary relationship.

    I think I’ve made some progress ladies.
    I’m smiling as I write…
    My progress is this– I spent nearly 5yrs in an off and on–too old for me–me chasing after a man who will never give me what I want–“relationship”–that started as Friends with Benefits and ended on the same note. This year I walked away from him and that situation forever. Now here comes “Mechanic,” the universe’s way of testing me…”Are you really done with this? Are you really done accepting crumbs and lusting over a man who doesn’t want you?” My chemistry with him mirrored my EX in so many ways and I knew it. I could recognize it despite getting sucked into his vortex of charm. I lost my footing, I got dizzy and disoriented, I let myself fall…..but I stood up again and as I climbed to my feet out came the words “No. I will not do this again, not with you or anyone else.” And he has vanished. At first, my head and heart still felt dizzy, I questioned myself…I still wanted him. But today, I see. Today I see and feel that a man that vanishes upon hearing “no” to a physical relationship, who doesn’t want to date me, clearly doesn’t want me at all. So why would I want a man that doesn’t clearly want me? As a friend, as a lover, or as anything at all?

    It has come to a head today…all the moping and wondering and mentally chasing…it has all quieted and come to a point. I don’t need this man in my life at all. And like I’m on the edge of a cliff and have been climbing a mountain holding my attraction for him on my back, I reach the edge and open my hands and there is drops. I feel lighter! I feel proud that I conquered what had for so long plagued me before. I chose not to repeat my mistakes, I chose to honor how I felt and what I wanted and that is worthy of celebrating. I acknowledged a potentially harmful situation and I walked the other way! It’s hard to communicate in writing how this man was so much to me a reincarnation of that previous relationship. How I felt and the actions I began to take…I could feel myself repeating a dangerous pattern. I chose not to do it! I know I’ve been focusing on “whether or WRONG thing to be thinking about since I just basically came in 1st place for myself! I won for me! YAY!!! drinks all around! Cupcake bring out the eggnog! It feels good to see and bask in the light.

  72.  #72Millie on December 12, 2013 at 10:46 pm

    oops typo: I know I’ve been focusing on “whether he wants to be friends or not” which it the wrong thing to be thinking about considering I just won for myself.

  73.  #73Veronica on December 12, 2013 at 10:57 pm


    No judgement here at all. Gosh how many times have I felt those feelings. It’s as though I split in two when that happens – the intellectual part of me says, ‘okay thank you predator lady for coming in and let’s see what everyone’s character is like, out in the open; yes predator lady please help me see what’s really happening here’ and the vulnerable me feels awful and shaky to my core, ‘how could this be happening’ shock, and “really?”; I know when I’m really feeling that there’s a sensation of heat rising up the back of my neck. (Many times)

  74.  #74Millie on December 12, 2013 at 11:30 pm

    @Cupcake 30

    Love this post ๐Ÿ™‚
    Great metaphors

  75.  #75Cris on December 13, 2013 at 12:22 am

    @Millie, congratulations! You chose to be IMPORTANT, RELEVANT. You chose to be YOU.
    Happy bd @SilverTS
    all my best wishes

  76.  #76Femininewoman on December 13, 2013 at 1:57 am

    Happy Birthday Indigo. Remember no matter what, no one has any chance in hel!l in the presence of a siren.

  77.  #77Femininewoman on December 13, 2013 at 1:58 am

    Millie stay on your horse and ride like the wind.

  78.  #78Femininewoman on December 13, 2013 at 2:00 am

    Ladies I leave the birthday thing alone, especially with disappearing exs. It means more to us than them so if I assume anything it is that it really is no big deal to them.

  79.  #79sophie on December 13, 2013 at 3:21 am

    Yes Millie! I love those moments of epiphany – and I love what FW says ‘get on your horse and ride like the wind” Yee haaahhhh all the way ๐Ÿ™‚ And for the record, I never feel like throwing anything at your screen – but yes this lady in this post I want to tell her to run run as fast as you can and actually forget about any man just find a life that feels good and full and happy

    Indigo – there’s nothing to judge – I identified so strongly it triggered feeling sick in my stomach too – not necessarily about any woman (although I know what cupcake is saying too – I always expect women to be my sisters and feel very betrayed when they are not) but about all the painful stages of letting go – love to you x there are sunnier days on the way xxx

  80.  #80sophie on December 13, 2013 at 3:24 am

    73 – FW – this is one of the comments that I’d like a ‘like’ button for

  81.  #81Magic Seahorse on December 13, 2013 at 6:17 am

    Sweet Indigo-

    If I was watching you as the female lead on the movie screen………………….. I would have tears of joy and cheering out loud for our hero Indigo. Happy Birthday Sweet Indigo!

    Something you wrote awhile ago stayed with me very strongly. Like a shining light on the path calling out to me………… It was like a call to me. ……………… a “hey!!! Seahorse!!!!!!!! It’s over here!! Lookie!!! Try this!” type of thing. You had wrote about the love you had for M and how you just let it be. Accepted it and just let……. it…….be. Beautiful, just beautiful and so very accepting. So I went with it,too. Why not, right? I let my feeling stay and be there with me not poking at it and denying and putting walls up and so on and so forth………………… totally exhausting,too. Soooooooo, I did that for awhile and meanwhile took extra special care of me.I don’t remember how long I have been accepting of it but, a couple of days ago while I was driving, the dam decided to break. It was really hard to drive while crying like that! I didn’t pull over, I kept driving trying to find balance of huge tears and paying attention to the traffic…………. I feel sad now I didn’t pull over to let go because I stuffed it down and the pain in my ribs and just below them hurt for about two days. It will come again. I will be more ready and even more accepting of the ……………………. whatever it is that needs loving on. I thank you Indigo for shining the light. For being such a lovely voice here and for writing it out. Thank you for being so brave. Big lovin squishy hugs to you!

    I feel over flowing of gratefulness and happy and it’s swirling and glowing and what an awesome start to my day! Thank you, Seahorse

  82.  #82Magic Seahorse on December 13, 2013 at 6:33 am

    Ohhhhhhhhh…………………I feel very curious that I didn’t name the………………. ball of stuff that is in me. It feels like old and big. Core stuff. breathing and I feel scared kind of…………. dizzy blood rushing to my head. BREATHE SEAHORSE!!!!!!!!!

    It’s a big one.

  83.  #83Magic Seahorse on December 13, 2013 at 6:37 am

    I feel a voice hear a voice saying no no nononon …… and another saying feeling? ………. just wait till I’m alone…………. stay with the love and accept and breathe……….. feel in belly rib area. resolve that it is weak …………………. pain from my heart area. dam it!! breathing

    this is hard work……… that made me smile and feel worthy……. let go or be dragged……..????????

  84.  #84Magic Seahorse on December 13, 2013 at 6:40 am

    panic and freaking dizzy……………….. panic…….. love you too. It will get better. I matter. I need a walk.

    I’m safe and it is all okay.

  85.  #85Magic Seahorse on December 13, 2013 at 6:44 am

    Wow. It’s not even about him. Old old old dusty stuff from under the couch……………. again. Freaking couch. I don’t like the couch.

  86.  #86Veronica on December 13, 2013 at 7:54 am

    I had these ‘knowing’ feeling moments this morning and I’m not sure what to do with them exactly. One was BM is going to be my husband โ€“ heโ€™s getting his house ready for us and two, me being all lovey about kitties is the beginning of me wanting to have a baby. And itโ€™s so crazy to be thinking this and it feels peaceful and that makes it seem even more crazier. I donโ€™t want to believe in it as something that will literally happen, and I am noticing how it would feel if I were very happily married, and thatโ€™s where Iโ€™m taking this whatever-it-is. Yesterday I had some peace about feeling that my love will come in its own time. I sense my watchfulness over myself. I donโ€™t want this to be another imaginary fix. I feel beautiful though, imagining a lover who wants me so much that heโ€™s getting our house ready for us, imagining that desire thatโ€™s motivating him, him wanting so bad for me to live there with him. And imagining adoration-touching and adoration-kissing too. I feel like Iโ€™m oozing feminine gorgeousness and my lover is ENTHRALLED. And I also realize how much work I have to do to be that woman. Iโ€™m still at the edges โ€“ sometimes diving into my feelings and then getting out very quickly or just opening myself to a brief touch of a feeling and then stopping because โ€˜things are now doneโ€™.

  87.  #87Sirana on December 13, 2013 at 8:06 am

    Dominque- I just read your article on healing a man’s heart through your own. This connected with me so quickly I actually thought for a minute you wrote it after we spoke. I see it was written a year ago. Amazing. I believe now I can do this. I am excited, relieved, nervous and hopeful. I know now I must go on this path to my own happiness. He will come with me. I know it. Together we will heal. I am the lighthouse that will lead us both. Thank you!

  88.  #88Cris on December 13, 2013 at 8:11 am

    @Sirana so beautiful what you wrote xoxoxo

  89.  #89Heart on December 13, 2013 at 8:12 am

    Indigo – Happy Birthday Xx.
    Hide all the girl’s post from your newsfeed…or go to her page and click the unfollow button…or Unfriend her.
    Thank her for the feedback she has giving you about yourself….that’s you’re still raw and a little fragile.

    Protect yourself from needless triggering…

  90.  #90Cupcake on December 13, 2013 at 8:18 am

    How is everybody today?

    Magic Seahorse? Indigo? Millie? Silvertongued Sired?

    Et al?

    I realized that, here in this new city, the only actual face to face conversation I had yesterday was when I ordered Peppermint tea and got Red Zinger.

    That’s why you hear from me so much on this board. I don’t know many people here in this new city. And I need a job, so that I have something to focus on HERE.

    Am looking…There is a job market, praise the Lord. It’s just that 2 weeks before Christmas, there are fewer ads popping up than there were the first couple weeks I was here.

    I have to check in with a recruiter today who may have an interview for me next week for a job that would be fabulous. She isn’t sure, though, about how the CEO will feel about hiring someone who just moved to town. This is a town a lot of people move to, and not all of them stay.

    Tereana- can I borrow your pink Siren lipstick? ๐Ÿ™‚


  91.  #91Sirana on December 13, 2013 at 8:24 am

    Thanks Cris!

  92.  #92Kyla on December 13, 2013 at 9:35 am

    Cupcake fingers crossed for you. The perfect job for you is opening up and will be better than you could have hoped for ๐Ÿ™‚

    I’m feeling amused today with the men I’m chatting to. They seem so unsure of themselves, so cautious and taking such teeny tiny steps closer to me, hinting at dates or phone calls without actually asking for them, asking me to save time for them before I get snapped up by someone else without actually asking for my time. Taking a teeny step closer after a few days. Its cute and boring at the same time. I’m finding that my interest fizzles.

  93.  #93Liquid Light on December 13, 2013 at 9:53 am

    Re. the jealousy thing.

    Indigo’s story reminded me of an incident with my ex. We were at my art opening last year and a friend of mine was there too. They hadn’t met before. Anyway, he was flirtatious with her and she was back right in front of me. It didn’t really bother me though because I knew that he was flirt, it was just his nature, and I knew that she didn’t have anything on me. However, that friendship ended right after that because I didn’t trust her anymore, that’s not the way I expect a friend to behave.

    There were other women that I was jealous of though. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being jealous. In fact, I think the guy wants you to be jealous (at times) since it proves your feelings for him. At a party last year, my boyfriend was *trying* to make me jealous by brazenly flirting right in front of me.

    So I don’t think jealousy is a problem per se, I think its the pretending that you aren’t jealous and pretending that everything is fine that’s the problem. Again its the inauthenticity issue that gets in the way of connecting with a man more than anything else. Just my 2 cents.

  94.  #94Dominique on December 13, 2013 at 10:17 am

    Sirana – 84 – I feel thrilled this piece resonated with you. You’re awesome; please hold this one close to your hear always.

    Love to you.


  95.  #95Amber on December 13, 2013 at 10:51 am

    I feel sad and disconnected today. I don’t want to pretend to be ‘ok’ when I’m not. I’m practicing doing nothing but receiving because i feel like any action i take will just be leaning forward and rowing.

  96.  #96Magic Seahorse on December 13, 2013 at 10:59 am

    the alone time I waanted, I got. It changed from tears to anger to WTF and then I felt foolish…….. maybe not foolish? feels like me telling myself ‘you know all this’……….. I wasn’t ready for what i know to go deeper because the ground wasn’t soft enough??? Time and all that. Now I’m ready.

    This personal work shows up in some strange ways. i went to the dentist and I don’t have the anxiety and sweat thing happening. Felt not the fear bug. It was okay, it was the dentist and all that entails but it was okay. I feel really proud and not going to question it. More work to do and feeling curious as to what ti will bring

  97.  #97Magic Seahorse on December 13, 2013 at 11:05 am

    Hi there Cupcake!!!! I am well. Thank you for asking Siren! Good great luck to on landing your job;)

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY to all December sirens!!!

  98.  #98CurvySiren10 on December 13, 2013 at 11:17 am

    Indigo…just reading this now. No judgment from me! I get this on a very deep level. I don’t feel it’s petty at all. It hurts and can be incredibly triggering.

    I agree with the Siren who said to hide this stuff from your sensitive eyes and soul. It puts you in a position of dealing with something very painful that sets you off the course of putting yourself first and taking supreme care of your feelings.

    Whatever is happening is happening regardless of your knowledge, so I feel it would be so much better to relinquish that control and accept that ‘not knowing’ is probably best …for YOU.

    Lots of hugs and love to you xoxo

  99.  #99Silver-Tongued Siren on December 13, 2013 at 11:27 am

    87, cupcake – thanks for asking.

    I am struggling with wanting to text BD – (who forgot my birthday). Feeling the desire *strongly* for a half hour or more. As soon as I started to write this, he texted ME! What he said was the perfect excuse for what I wanted to say, also. lol.

    I’m curious why he texted me.
    Maybe he’s warming up, or maybe it’s to test the waters after forgetting my bday.
    But those are both stories I made up, so I’ll believe the first one. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  100.  #100Silver-Tongued Siren on December 13, 2013 at 11:43 am

    Should I have mentioned that he missed my birthday, or my feelings, when he texted me?

    I kinda figure its just whatever. he doesn’t remember my birthday, I turn it into his loss, not mine – I don’t hang on him, I am already somewhere else having fun and he misses out! Right? I feel like that is what will draw them in, I just don’t always have an easy time doing it if it’s important to me.

    Text with him below:
    BD –“omg has the most awesome kids hats right now. I want to get one, but I want to pick it out.

    STS- “Ooh excited to see!!! Need a ride? >:)
    —(*his car is out of commission currently*)

    BD – “Ha, no i got a loaner. We should look at these hats together sometime though. He may hate them, but I won’t know unless he tries it.”

    STS- I bet they are so cute!
    (Not nearly as much as you)

    BD- sends a cute pic of himself wearing the hat

    STS- Haaaa that’s just what I was wanting!! (A pic. Bonus, you!)

    STS- I hope he wants one, those are adorable and I bet he’d love it if it looks like some amazing creature

    STS- Do you work early in the am? Maybe we could do something tonight
    STS- Unless you have to be up too early

    — I already have a few stories in my head about why he really texted me and why he hasn’t answered yet. but there I go making up awful stories again. I am so good at coming up with these. maybe I can be equally good at stopping.

  101.  #101Silver-Tongued Siren on December 13, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    The boards are SO QUIET lately… ?!

  102.  #102Millie on December 13, 2013 at 12:16 pm


    I am good today!! I also love FW comment–staying on my horse and riding like the wind. Such good imagery too! I’m a bit under the weather, have been for almost two weeks! I finally got some meds from the doc so hopefully they will kick in! I’m tired of battling this sore throat.

    What job are you looking for? Or what is your field of expertise? Also, don’t know if you already shared, but what made you move to your new town? I am curious.

  103.  #103Millie on December 13, 2013 at 12:16 pm


    I am good today!! I also love FW comment–staying on my horse and riding like the wind. Such good imagery too! I’m a bit under the weather, have been for almost two weeks! I finally got some meds from the doc so hopefully they will kick in! I’m tired of battling this sore throat.

    What job are you looking for? Or what is your field of expertise? Also, don’t know if you already shared, but what made you move to your new town? I am curious.

  104.  #104Monica on December 13, 2013 at 12:39 pm


    I feel your angst and your jealousy. I’m in a similar situation presently. The tightness I feel in my stomach when I think my ex might already be engaging with women who were circling before we were done, is awful. It makes me want to go running back to him because it’s so scary to walk into the unknown. A friend of mine gave me a visual for helping with uncomfortable feelings that I find helpful– when I can center myself long enough to focus: try taking whatever emotion you are feeling (anger, jealousy, etc.) and cradle your arms as if you are holding that emotion as if it were a baby and send it love. I know it’s scary to think that your gut feelings might be right, but at the end of the day, we all sometimes have to just lean into the thorn and accept that these things do happen: sometimes our fears ARE realized, but we usually survive them. Hugs to you. Know you aren’t alone with your angst.

  105.  #105Monica on December 13, 2013 at 12:53 pm


    #48 It feels to me like you are trying to get something from him that he is not coming forward with on his own. I’m not sure if you would be feeling so conflicted around “just friends” if you truly didn’t want more from him? I don’t know this for a fact because I don’t know you, but it all feels very familiar in how I behave when I am wanting something/someone I can’t have. See how it feels to take a step back for a couple of weeks and give him the space to show up as a friend. Would you still want his friendship if you were wildly in love with someone else? Best of luck. Life can feel so complicated!

  106.  #106Liquid Light on December 13, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    I just had a guy in the grocery store try to pick me up. First time that happened. He got my number but it was a bit weird because he almost had this look of triumph about him when he walked away like hey I got a girl’s number that I just picked up the grocery store. So that felt a bit weird to me.

    He also mentioned that he tries to work as little as possible and kinda laughed about it like it was a joke. But to me its a signal that he’s communicating that he’s not that ambitious and that he doesn’t make much money. Guys tell us who they are very quickly, its up to us to hear them/read their signals.

  107.  #107Monica on December 13, 2013 at 1:01 pm


    Now it’s my turn to ask you all for help and support. I have been following this blog for a long time and have only recently decide to join in the conversation. Thank you all for allowing me to learn from you in the shadows! My issue is this: I am becoming increasingly more aware of the shadowing side of men’s sexuality and it scares me because I am newly single and don’t feel trusting of men. So many women have recently come forward to tell me their stories of their wonderful, lovely men who have been leading double lives with prostitutes, multiple partners, porn addiction…etc. I understand men like porn and in moderation, I can live with it, provided I am feeling safe and wanted by my man. (My own experiences in my last relationship was that I could tell when he had been using porn as escapism as it definitely lowered the quality of our sex, and for this I had issues with it.) The internet has made it sooooo easy for men to explore do things that previously our culture would’ve called immoral. It’s so easy to fire off a sexy text to someone even though they shouldn’t. It’s so easy to find someone on Tinder or Facebook that you shouldn’t be. There’s such immediate gratification for being impulsive. I always believed in the nobility of men and want to continue to do so as I begin to date all over again, but presently I’m terrified. Can you please assure me that not all men think this New Normal is, well, normal? Thanks, Sirens!

  108.  #108Silver-Tongued Siren on December 13, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    Liquid Light, 102 –

    I agree with what you said about what he was communicating. There is always some truth to comments meant to be funny

  109.  #109Dominique on December 13, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    Monica – Most certainly not all men think this is the new normal. Most men are good men wanting just what you want, one woman to love and adore and cherish. Sure there are some not so nice men out there just as there are some not so nice women, or maybe better, they are troubled beyond what you might want to deal with.

    Keep on believing in the nobility of men, and this kind of man will be who shows up for you.


  110.  #110Liquid Light on December 13, 2013 at 1:16 pm

    Thanks STS, yeah, and that all happened within 10 min of meeting him! Boom, there it is right there: I’m not ambitious and I don’t make much money. Plain as light!

    Regarding the birthday thing, I would definitely speak up about it. This is a golden opportunity to speak your truth. There is nothing to be ashamed of. Most women, and in fact I bet most men too, would feel bad if someone important forgot their birthday. So , yes, absolutely say something but of course not in a blaming way. Otherwise, how is he going to get to know who you really are? And if he doesn’t know who you really are then how will he ever be able to fall in love with you.?

    Also, if it were me, I would stop offering him rides. That feels mothering to me. He’s a man, he can figure out his own transport. Just my 2 cents.

  111.  #111Tammy on December 13, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    Ladies- you are an inspiration to me! I get on here and read your posts and understand that I am not alone after all in my “adventure of change”. And most importantly when I feel like I must be a hopeless case, I read how you have overcome. You remind me that there is hope! You remind me that there is strength in feminity. Makes me want to be a Siren! Thank you!

  112.  #112Monica on December 13, 2013 at 2:48 pm

    Thank you, Dominique! Sometimes it feels like the world has accelerated to a place I don’t feel comfortable going!

  113.  #113Luzydel on December 13, 2013 at 4:07 pm

    36: Sequoia

    I agree so much with your post; I am the type of person that needs solo time after a messy “relationship” whether it was real or imaginary. I get that Rori’s idea is that if you circular date you wont get hung up in just one man that isn’t moving forward, but circular dating can become a new addiction and escape. I have read some of he posters here and I sense that for some CDing is another way to avoid real intimacy and hide from the real pain they feel.

    By saying this, I am not stating I am against circular dating. But sometimes our issues with men are deep within us and we need to heal, and go to those dark places inside of us and release the pain, hurt, and forgive ourselves. We can only do that when we focus just in ourselves.

    Right now I do not need a lot of C-dates so I wont get hung up in one man. I just don’t get hung up in any man simple… I know I will be fine and that the next guy is around, Even if there are not Cd’s.

    I can CD one man, two, three or none; I will still be great old me! My happiness and well being is not up to how many men I date.

  114.  #114Luzydel on December 13, 2013 at 4:19 pm

    @ 54:

    I would buy a nice gift for me; take me out or jut stay home and give myself a nice bubble bath.

  115.  #115Cupcake on December 13, 2013 at 5:19 pm

    Millie #99

    I am looking for a job as an executive assistant. That’s what my field is.

    You asked why I am in this new town, starting a new life…

    1.) I was in major metropolis city, working in my field; Then, my dad got sick, so i went to help take care of him, leaving my job. While dad was sick, the economy tanked. So when I came back to major metropolis city, there were NO jobs. People just weren’t leaving if they weren’t forced outand companies weren’t hiring.

    2.) After 8 months of a painful job search, I decided to pack it in and go for a quieter life on a mountain, moving to my weekend house full-time. It was a peaceful lifestyle. The problem was, there was no job market, I was 45 minutes (at least!) away from any place to work, and the dating pool was more of a sewer. I got into an imaginary relationship that Rori practically throttled me over. (But you know the joke about the crappy poker game that everybody plays in anyway…because it’s the only game in town? Yeah.

    So as crappy as that life was working out for me in terms of bad jobs and worse dating potential, I probably would have stayed there because the beauty of the place cast a spell over me, and I felt like a fairy tale princess on a mountain in a tower. Because I was on a mountain, by myself, and my bedroom in my house there sort of is in a tower.

    Then 3.) My mom needed me. She’s slipping into dementia, and can’t be alone. I tried to move her to the mountain with me, and the change was too much for her. So rather unexpectedly, I closed down the house and drove with Mom back to where she lives, in a state I actively dislike. I spent the summer there.

    In that period of time, a long time dating website penpal and I sort of picked up the penpal pace. And then started talking on Skype, and then he decided he was coming over to meet me. There was a fair bit of future talking coming out of his mouth, which I tried very hard to not listen to, because I kept saying, ‘Until you get off a plane and walk over to me, this isn’t real.”

    But I was bored, living in a senior citizens complex, and the only person I had to talk to is my mother who is 89 and repeats herself constantly.

    It felt good to have someone call me every day who was ardently attentive, masculine, etc etc. And easy on the eyes. So that was my summer, into the fall. And then he came over to see me, and someone else looked after Mom for a week, and he took me on vacation– which I SORELY needed, let me tell you. Driving Miss Daisy is a full-time job. (My mom is great– sweet, uncomplaining, lovely. But it is HARD WORK taking care of an aging parent on your own.)

    It was a fantastic week. It was effortless and endless fun. He asked me to be exclusive, and I gave him the “no girlfriend” speech. He cried when I said I wanted to keep my options open. He said he had to think, couldn’t offer me a long-term forever commitment on the spot, but wasn’t ruling it out.

    When he left, it felt like all systems go. He’d talked about my coming over to his country for the holidays, maybe longer. My sister was coming to take care of Mom, so I could do that.

    And then he got home, and there was a disconnect. I don’t know why. There was a lot of drama on my end with my mom bugging out when my sister came back, because Mom didn’t want me to leave. Tears. (Hers.) Stress. I don’t know. I told him I needed a couple days to sort it out.

    And it never really got back on track, after that. I asked when I should come over and he said he needed to think about it. Then he emailed me that he was a mess, he didn’t think he wanted a relationship after all, please forgive him, yada yada yada. He didn’t know it would turn out this way. He didn’t know he was broken.” (We talked, later. He’s a decent man. It just is what it is.)

    Which brings us to (4.) – I couldn’t go back to the mountain. Assuming that I was going to be with the guy in his country for the winter, I’d had the house closed up for the winter and to go open it up, try to find a job in the cold months, and pay to heat the house when I didn’t have a job– It was an impossible proposition. So I came here. Which is the only city within a days drive from my Mom, still in a warm climate, that I could possibly live in. (It is in a different state than she is in, not the state I dislike.)

    And it just cracks me up, to a certain degree because there I was, the princess in the tower, and it really did seem like the handsome prince was coming to rescue me, to take me away from my life that wasn’t working all that great and help me sort everything out. And dagnab it– here I am, having to solve the problems on my own. Job, life, dates.

    “And so we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.”

    Who can name that quote? ::)


  116.  #116Cupcake on December 13, 2013 at 5:44 pm

    Monica- #103-

    What Dominique says (#105) feels true to me, about there being plenty of decent men.

    I just want to underline that even if they do look at porn sometimes, it’s usually a completely different thing than being in a relationship. The men that I’ve known, both as friends and lovers, who enjoy porn are still very capable of being in a real, loving relationship with a woman – even one who looks like a real woman, not a porn star! It’s just something they do, like video games. And true, SOME guys get addicted to video games, and some guys get addicted to porn. Most, though, do not.

    Most completely see it for what it is– pictures in a book, no big deal. A girl who offers them no warmth, nothing to protect and love.

    There ARE good guys. Really. Lots of them.

  117.  #117michele on December 13, 2013 at 6:12 pm

    Hello all,
    Very new to this site and have an issue that needs feedback. 6 years ago ended a relationship that left me utterly devastated. Off an on over the years I reached out with no positive outcome. I moved cross country to extricate myself from the situation and cut him from my life. He recently friended me on facebook and asked to see me… I resisted and finally agreed to spend time with him when he comes to this coast the end of january. Since saying yes to meeting with him I have not heard a word. 2 1/2 weeks. I recognize we are not a couple, not even dating but feel that open communication is a positive connection in order to meet up in january. confused….are we in first connection stage? we are an old relationship that was broken in many ways.

  118.  #118michele on December 13, 2013 at 6:14 pm

    I feel I should let him go but have the fantasy of resolving our issues and having a relationship truthfully.

  119.  #119Cupcake on December 13, 2013 at 6:23 pm

    Am I the only person sitting home tonight? Sheesh!

    Continuing post #111 here, then, because I was just thinking about this-

    And sometimes in this new city I feel like, “Wait, what? What just happened here?”

    Because the guy was intertwined in my life so intricately for months before he came over. Facebook, emails, texts, Skype for hours. He was really really present for an imaginary relationship.

    And then he was here, and that felt great. It’s so weird though– my whole memory of that week is us being side by side, talking. I have very little memory of eye contact. We walked and explored for hours every day, botanical gardens, lots of them– so it feels really dreamline. All my memories are walking among trees and plants, looking at them. I mean, of course I remember sitting across from him at restaurants and stuff. But mostly it seems like we were walking in greenery.

    And then he went back, and it took about 10 days for the dust to settle on what the next step was– and it was a month ago today that he emailed me that he didn’t think he wanted a relationship.

    “A little month,” as Hamlet said.

    And I kick myself because I just SOOO wanted to get out of my mom’s house that I didn’t lean back and let him figure it out on his own, approach me with the plan. He’d said he wanted me to come, and then he didn’t say anything more about what that was going to look like.

    So I said, “I want time together. I feel unclear about how the next few months are going to work. How do you see them playing out?”

    And in the time honored tradition of men everywhere, when pressured, he said no.

    Maybe that’s what he would have said anyway. Quite possibly it is.

    Rori says that after 18 months of correspondence– most of which was completely casual, assuming we’d never meet, and all that Skyping, and his visit, and it just hanging there, asking him was the right thing to do. That makes me feel better.

    And when he said he didn’t think he wanted to be in a relationship, I basically just started packing up the car, filled the tank and headed to New City. He was very surprised when I told him I was leaving right away. He texted to make sure I got here okay. And aside from one other short exchange that I stupidly initiated a few days later, and then said, “Gotta go!” because I wished I hadn’t initiated it- that’s been it.

    Sometimes, Being here in New City and having to come up with an unexpected future for myself feel very dreamlike. Surreal.

    Then I try to remember that exercise from Reconnect Your Relationship, where you take all the chattering thoughts in your head and send them in an elevator down to your pelvis. That helps.

    It will be better when I have friends and a job.

    And it would be a lot better if my dog were here, but he stayed with my mom and my sister because my mom is now really attached to him. I really miss the dog.

    Hey, maybe that’s who I’m really missing! At least I know he loves me! ๐Ÿ™‚


  120.  #120Tereana on December 13, 2013 at 8:37 pm

    Cupcake #90 – yes!!

    Borrow my lipstick ๐Ÿ™‚

    It is Cover Girl #415

    Or borrow this: wear whatever lip color feels amazing! Follow your little peaceful excitement that draws you toward what makes you feel really good. Little signs are out there calling you, and it may just be an idea in your head. Dress to impress (yourself), and just walk into any place that seems interesting. The job may come up to meet you ๐Ÿ™‚

    And I was curious – what new city are you in?

    You don’t have to say, if it feels private. But sometimes ladies here are willing to help out!

    I hope you find a fun job ๐Ÿ™‚

  121.  #121Tereana on December 13, 2013 at 8:39 pm

    Cupcake – haha, nope. I guess you’re not the only one at home on a Friday night. But truthfully I like staying in on weekends ๐Ÿ™‚

    I am about to go to sleep, though.

    Good night!


  122.  #122Indigo on December 13, 2013 at 10:18 pm

    Cupcake 69,

    Yes, I do feel like all women are my allies. I love women. And as you say, that’s why it’s always bewildering when they are competitive or you get strange vibes from them.

    I know this is something coming up for me to heal. I would love to get better at responding to it, and not in a knee-jerk way.

    Thank you xx

  123.  #123Indigo on December 13, 2013 at 10:20 pm

    Veronica 73,

    Thank you so much. You ladies make me feel so not alone. That’s exactly how it feels for me.


  124.  #124Indigo on December 13, 2013 at 10:22 pm

    Thanks Feminine Woman ๐Ÿ™‚

    It’s the confusion of feeling so powerful and good one moment, and the next feeling like the rug has been completely pulled out from under you and you are landing flat on your bum on the floor. When I do feel siren-like I really do feel the truth of what you’re saying ๐Ÿ™‚

  125.  #125Indigo on December 13, 2013 at 10:24 pm

    Thank you sophie 79 ๐Ÿ™‚

    Today is a much sunnier day already (and yay, because it’s my birthday ๐Ÿ™‚ )


  126.  #126Indigo on December 13, 2013 at 10:27 pm

    Magic Seahorse 81,

    Thank you, your post really made me smile. I feel so glad what I said helped you and resonated with you.

    That is the price, and the beauty, of being authentic. And I’ve learnt to welcome the tears, as much as used to dread them in the past, now I’m thankful when they come. The tank is overflowing, and better feelings are just on the other side of it.

    xx love to you

  127.  #127Cupcake on December 13, 2013 at 10:27 pm

    Happy birthday Indigo!!!!!

  128.  #128Indigo on December 13, 2013 at 10:29 pm

    Thanks so much Heart xx

    There was a little voice inside saying exactly what you are saying, don’t look, don’t upset yourself. One day, very soon, I will listen.

    I have to be more careful with myself, I’m so sensitive.

    Love to you

  129.  #129Indigo on December 13, 2013 at 10:34 pm

    CurvySiren 97,

    Thank you, you make me feel incredibly sane!

    And of course what you are saying is perfectly true. I was thinking, do I really need to know? Can I not use my masculine energy to protect my thoughts, protect my heart? I feel like as well as I have been doing, I’m still terribly, terribly vulnerable underneath, and it will be a long while before I can handle information like this.

    Thank you for your care and concern. Lots of love x

  130.  #130Indigo on December 13, 2013 at 10:41 pm

    Thank you Monica 103, I love knowing I am not alone.

    And there is nothing for it but to send love to those feelings of jealousy and anger and hurt… it causes them to pass quicker.

    And I understand your feelings about the world having accelerated to a place you don’t want to be. And the thing is, you will find that the vast majority of people won’t be for you. But this is not a bad thing. It hones your instincts for the people who *are* right for you. There are many decent, relationship-oriented men out there who will not give you cause to worry about those things.


  131.  #131Indigo on December 13, 2013 at 11:07 pm

    Silver-Tongued Siren 99,

    Happy birthday ๐Ÿ™‚

    If you don’t mind me saying, that conversation seemed a little leany forward to me. I agree with Liquid Light that I would stop offering him lifts. Also asking him if he wanted to get together, and continuing chatting enthusiastically after his conversation had dried up… sorry, I’ve been in that situation, and it can just feel like a bit much to the other person. I believe it’s a good idea to follow the guy’s lead.

    Lots of love to you, you sound so lovely.

  132.  #132Cris on December 14, 2013 at 1:38 am

    B-I-R-T-H-D-A-Y Indigo!!!! (it is on this saturday, right?ยฐ

    @Cupcake thank you for sharing your story
    <3 <3

  133.  #133Indigo on December 14, 2013 at 1:50 am

    Thank you Cupcake & Cris (you sirens are so special).

    Cris, yes, it is Saturday here ๐Ÿ™‚

  134.  #134Cris on December 14, 2013 at 2:14 am

    @Indigo where do you live? bc it is Saturday morning here ๐Ÿ™‚

  135.  #135Indigo on December 14, 2013 at 2:26 am


    In South Africa ๐Ÿ™‚ it’s about midday here.

  136.  #136Corin on December 14, 2013 at 6:36 am

    Hi Sirens,

    I feel so sad to be out circular dating again after a nearly three year relationship that I had so hoped was going to lead to marriage. Even when he was moving out and sleeping on the sofa until he had a new place, I still hoped we would get through. I remember getting into bed the last night (last week) that he was here and although I knew he was moving out the next day, when I pulled back the covers I thought there might be a box with a ring and an apology. I’ve never been in denial so deeply in any other relationship before. My heart has never hurt when a relationship ended as much as this time. It almost feels worse now when a relationship ends than it used to do because I think I should be making better choices now but I’m still not.

    This time I’m determined to not lose sight of me, not let my partner boss me around, not give away all my power to him. This time, I will take care of myself and listen to my instincts. He told me that if I got a promotion and moved to a part of the country where he preferred to live then after a year he would be ready to get married and have children with me. I moved, I got the promotion and ….no I’m not the right person for him. I wish I could stop this cycle of believing that I need to be good enough for a man to commit to me as then they start believing it too and start blaming me for all the reasons why they can’t commit.

    On a good note, this breakup has been far more loving and I have kept my heart pretty open and expressed my feelings in a way I am proud of. I have not reacted to attack but instead allowed myself to be vulnerable. He says he still loves me but is not in love with me. I know he has lost attraction for me. I feel so sad. Starting dating in a new city feels scary and hard but I can do it.

  137.  #137CurvySiren10 on December 14, 2013 at 6:37 am

    Happy Birthday to you Indigo!!~~ hope you are having/had a beautiful celebration of you!! xoxo

  138.  #138Kyla on December 14, 2013 at 7:25 am

    A male friend that I used to work with and haven’t seen in 4 months text me late last night “in dire need of a booty call” I felt shocked. In the early hours of the morning another text came through “I will do all the work in bed I just need you”. I just went back to sleep feeling bewildered. If I wanted FWB right now, he would be the perfect guy. I can do FWB, I have done when I was younger and I had been wondering about maybe CDing incl a FWB as I can only have sex with a man I really know well but no I don’t want that. I want love, deep trust, emotional connection and commitment. I feel guilty that I haven’t responded to him yet!

    I feel intrigued about men being messengers, I’m getting some loud and clear messages lately.

  139.  #139Mo on December 14, 2013 at 7:31 am

    Morning Ladies,
    Thank you for the advice. I did wind up texting him the birthday song. I have not had a response. But that is ok. I feel better and that is all that counts. For Sophia and Cupcake you are right. I do still feel a pull towards him,however I am keeping my distance. This past year without him has done wonders for me.
    When I was in my 20s if a guy did not want to be with me I wrote him off. NEXT! was my reply. And there always was a next guy. After being married, a stay at home mom for a long time that confidence (that I thought I still had)shattered with divorce and for the first time working and supporting myself.
    Living alone was terrifying to me. I made mistakes at first,like getting a roommate that turned out to be a drunk, but perservered. When I met this guy he was a breath of fresh air. Manly in alot of ways which I happened to love. I never realised until the divorce how comfortable my ex was in having life run instead of he running his own. But this guy seemed to have his act together. I still believe he does to a point but something has happened and he chooses not to share it with me. That is alright.
    My point in all this is I am back to loving me first. If this guy has no desire to maintain any type of relationship that will hurt. I will feel sad but I that is his choice and mistake,lol. And it has nothing to do with me.
    I am CDing myself. Finding out what my interests and talents are. And remembering a lot of time I prefer my own company to others.
    At times I do feel scared about spending the rest of my life alone. When that happens I breathe deeply feel those feelings and look around at all my blessings.
    Much love to all

  140.  #140Kyla on December 14, 2013 at 7:36 am

    My son woke me early and reminded me I promised to make pancakes. I felt so tired and slow, brought him downstairs, snuggled him on the couch with his favorite tv show and went to make the pancakes. I made a plate of mini pancakes for him.

    He came over to the computer a while later and told me the pancakes taste burnt. I felt instantly irritated! I started to protest, they were not burnt! I started to explain and then I felt myself burst into a flood of tears and my body rock back and forth in convulsions and sorry spill out of lips. Its not about the pancakes. Its not about my son. Wow the triggers are everywhere.

  141.  #141Cupcake on December 14, 2013 at 8:22 am

    Dear Sirens-

    I just woke up from the funniest dream.

    I dreamed that I was standing in my kitchen in front of two pie pans. One pie pan was empty and the other one had an uncooked pie crust in it.

    I was feeling hungry. I was looking at the empty pie pan, remembering the delicious pie that I had made in it before, a pie that was already eaten. It had been fabulous and I wanted more of it. There wasn’t any more of it to eat. And I felt sad, but sort of excited too because it had been so darn good, and remembering that pie made me feel happy.

    Then Rori came in.

    I said, “Hey, I’m hungry!”

    She went to the refrigerator and opened the door. There was a big mixing bowl on the shelf. I just sort of looked at it and nodded, and with a mild amount of exasperation, Rori took the mixing bowl out and silently put it on the counter with next to the pie plates.

    There was pie filling in the mixing bowl.

    I just sort of smiled at her and she handed me a spoon.

    I said, “What?”


    I was like, “What?” Not following.

    She said, ‘Put the pie filling in the unbaked pie crust, turn on the over, put the new pie in the over, and in a little while, you’ll have another pie to eat. It may be even more delicious than the one before.”

    And I said, I kid you not, “Yeah, but then when I take that pie out of the oven, it might be hot and I might get burned.”

    She handed me oven mitts, shaking her head at my stubbornness.

    And I woke up thinking, “Wait, she’s right.”

    I am in a beautiful, amazing city. My pie crust.

    There are all kinds of people for me to meet and things to do. My pie filling.

    And by using Rori’s tools, I can better protect myself from what I perceive as danger, which is really just a matter of being open to risk because you are open to possibility.

    I woke up laughing.

    I looked at my phone to see what time it was. And you know what was on the screen? A photo of that guy. I don’t remember looking at it last night, but I must have.

    I heard myself think, “It doesn’t matter what he looks like, if I never see him again.”

    So now I am going out to explore the morning, to take in my new city and look for a cool coffee shop.

    Just wanted to share the dream with you. Could it be more clear what means?

    Thanks, Rori, for your visit to my dreams!


  142.  #142Cupcake on December 14, 2013 at 8:36 am


    I felt sad reading that you feel guilty for not responding to a text that, to me anyway, essentially says, “You are good enough to attract my attention, and not good enough to be someone I want in a significant way.”

    Then your son saying the pancakes aren’t good enough too, right after that- that hurts my heart.

    Why would you feel guilty for not answering that guy? If you choose to do a FWB, fair enough– I find I can do that with guys who are so young that there could never be anything real between us. But I can’t do it with men at all close to my age, or it gets messy for me.

    If I got a text like that from a guy who was my friend, someone I had a playful relationship with, I’d say something like, “You sure know how to make a girl feel special. And, um…No.”

    If I didn’t have a banter-based relationship with him, I’d ignore it.

    But you don’t owe him any answer at all, and it makes me feel sad that you feel guilty.

  143.  #143Indigo on December 14, 2013 at 8:41 am

    Thank you CurvySiren,

    Today has been close to the exact birthday I wanted.


  144.  #144Indigo on December 14, 2013 at 8:47 am

    Today I realized how up in my head I have been in relationships.

    I overfunctioned so much with D, not just in giving and initiating, but in overthinking.

    And it came about partly because I’m an intellectual person, and trying to make sense of things that frankly… made no sense.

    And so I got the realization today… to follow my feelings. Follow how I feel from one moment to the next, be in the feeling rather than the intellectualizing. Allow a man to please you. And this requires a very deep level of relaxation and being in the moment.

    It felt so wonderful having that realization. Perhaps my best birthday present so far.

    D wished me happy birthday. He also said he would buy me a birthday present and drop it off for me when he was able. And I felt my heart expanding, and myself opening… just a little.

  145.  #145Cupcake on December 14, 2013 at 8:50 am

    Corin- #133-


    I know what you mean about it being hard to be in a new city circular dating. It is.

    Please don’t beat yourself up, though. The learning curve is a twisty road. As you read the board, you’ll see we all learn- and then RE-learn- lessons every day.

    Try to just be in the moment. I know- believe me- that that’s easier said than done. When I’ve been in that much pain, sometimes I’ve found it helpful to say out-loud, “Now I am turning on the tap to take a shower. Now I am taking off my robe and getting into the show. The water feels too hot. Now I am adjusting it.”

    Because saying that out loud keeps me IN THE ROOM, instead of letting my energy travel out of me, chasing the guy down the energy cord between us to try to find him in the ether. Or to have my energy just be floating around, not sure where it’s at but actuvely looking for things to hurl at me for being so stupid as to get myself into whatever situation it is that I am in.

    Try to stay in the present, and when you hear yourself judging yourself, at least tell yourself you’ll reserve judgement until your not in crisis any more.

    Hang in there. One second at a time.


  146.  #146Indigo on December 14, 2013 at 8:52 am

    I had such a realization, and epiphany, while reading one of Shannon’s posts on a previous thread…

    And it made me just spontaneously apologise to D. I know I did many things wrong. Not wrong *to* him, but I did wrong by myself, wrong by the relationship. And there was no self-condemnation whatsoever, and it wasn’t about him, nor did I expect anything from him. And he replied and said, it’s fine, I did too, I hope you’ve had a nice day.

    Hm. Sigh.

  147.  #147Cupcake on December 14, 2013 at 8:52 am


    Tell us what your birthday was like?


  148.  #148Indigo on December 14, 2013 at 9:34 am

    Oh Cupcake, this may sound weird but what I wanted was a day completely to myself. I have not had that in months.

    I have the house to myself for the entire weekend – my family has gone away – and I was able to do exactly as I pleased in a totally relaxed and peaceful manner. I went and got horsefeed and spent loads of time with my horse.

    I got phone calls and loads of messages from very special people. People had given me gifts on other days. I was invited by three different people to do things tonight, but I chose to spend it with me. It’s been lovely, people have been very thoughtful and I felt very special. Yet I was able to have the me time I’ve been longing for.

  149.  #149Kyla on December 14, 2013 at 9:37 am

    Thank you Cupcake it feels good to hear from you.

    Hmm why do I feel feel guilt around not responding? Default going cold, feeling turned off and shutting down instead of using it as an opportunity to speak my truth and staying open and curious.. I don’t want to respond because I cared about him as a friend who is going through a rough year and I feel insulted, I’ve never been a booty call and I feel icky that a drunk/depressed man only wants to borrow my body to relieve his pain. But I’m taking the message anyway, I’m getting clear about what I want and riding on.

    Feeling unappreciated by the people I care about is a big trigger.. the pain thats burning away the scar tissue in my heart after breaking up with R.. it feels like being soaked in drowning waves of unbearable grief.. but they pass through me and over me and all this stuff thats buried in there it gets a chance to be washed out too.. Its good, I can feel. I had slowly shut my feelings down to protect myself until all I felt was tired and numb.

  150.  #150Kyla on December 14, 2013 at 9:48 am

    Big warm hugs Corin

    I resonate with a lot of your story. I’m also in a new city and felt devastated at the idea of CDing after 3 years with the man I really believed was my one. It took my whole life spinning out of control before I could see him as the lesson he was meant to be all along. I’m one month out and the healing already has been immense, and CDing has been a fun way so far to feel out where I want to go now ๐Ÿ™‚

    Congratulations on the promotion.

  151.  #151Kyla on December 14, 2013 at 9:49 am

    Sounds lovely Indigo ๐Ÿ™‚

  152.  #152Liquid Light on December 14, 2013 at 9:50 am

    Wow, Cupcake, I love that pie dream. It made me laugh and made me gasp in wonder at the symbolism and truth of it. Wow! I hope you have a dream journal, lots of insights there I bet!

  153.  #153Liquid Light on December 14, 2013 at 9:51 am

    Happy Birthday, Indigo!!!

  154.  #154Kyla on December 14, 2013 at 9:53 am

    I miss Mel.. If you’re reading girl I’m thinking of you!

  155.  #155Cupcake on December 14, 2013 at 10:46 am

    Kyla- #145-

    Sometimes, remaining silent feels like letting my truth speak for itself.

    Sending you love.


  156.  #156Cupcake on December 14, 2013 at 10:55 am

    Liquid Light #148-

    I know, right?

    I’m not sure it WAS a dream. Maybe Rori astral projects!

    She looked like she was ready to whack me upside the head with the spoon! And I can’t say I blame here! Doh! ๐Ÿ™‚


  157.  #157Rori Raye on December 14, 2013 at 11:59 am

    michele – Welcome, and the trick is to be open to “all comers” and FIXATED on NONE!!! In other words, until you can keep your emotional door open to all men (all PEOPLE!) – and not pay attention to ANYONE who isn’t right in front of you…that will be where your “work” lies. He can do what he wants. YOU stay focused on YOU. When your mind goes to some man who isn’t “there” – use my Tools to re-focus yourself. Love, Rori

  158.  #158Miss Bells on December 14, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    Feeling a little frustrated. HS has low T that makes him uninterested in sex. The Viagra can help, but it won’t fix it. He is afraid of taking testosterone because it can elevate prostate numbers. But he is willing to go to the doctor and asses the risk. Meanwhile–it’s been six months with no sex. Plenty of physical affection, but that is not really the same thing. I am not ready to be done…

  159.  #159Liquid Light on December 14, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    OMG, I am so excited! I have a plan!!! I can see how everything is going to fall into place!!!

  160.  #160Femininewoman on December 14, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    Happy Birthday Indigo

  161.  #161Cupcake on December 14, 2013 at 2:54 pm

    #158 Liquid Light–

    Are you going to tease us like that?

  162.  #162Cupcake on December 14, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    Michele #116/117

    Sorry I didn’t see your posts last night. Sometimes there’s a lag between when we send them and when they show up on the board. I didn’t see yours until this morning.

    Just wanted to give a shout out to say I feel for you, sistah. Nietzsche said Hope was the worst thing to fly out of Pandora’s box. I think he was probably talking about stuff like what you’re sitting with.

    Keep us posted. There’s not one Siren on the board here, I reckon, who hasn’t felt what you’re feeling.


  163.  #163Cupcake on December 14, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    Miss Bells-

    I can only imagine how frustrating that feels. ๐Ÿ™

  164.  #164michele on December 14, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    Cupcake and Rori, thanks so much for the support…it is much appreciated.
    Must say I sent him a FB message saying I wasn’t comfortable meeting up with him….I didn’t feel good about it. He replied he wanted to connect and have a chat….I declined….didn’t feel like chatting. He apologized for doing “something”, he wasn’t sure of what and that he was hoping our meeting up would be a “fresh start”.
    then it all came out……all the pent up hurt and disappointment from 6 years ago.How insignificant I felt etc etc. I shared that there were no fresh starts without tending to unresolved issues and that fresh starts required lots of connection. And that I felt there was nothing new here….no new behaviors.
    not sure this was right or wrong and it might end things once and for all…or start a conversation. And I will accept the outcome either way….I may not like it but will accept…..I will not chase or plead or beg.

  165.  #165Liquid Light on December 14, 2013 at 3:38 pm


    Just a thought. Is it possible to be open to the possibility of a fresh start (people do change) AND still be open to CDing with other men? Again its just a thought and I don’t know what else has transpired between you and this man so take it with a grain of salt if you want.

  166.  #166Liquid Light on December 14, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    Cupcake 160


    I just had this epiphany about how I’m going to make it work for me (I moved in July and I’ve been pretty miserable ever since) here vis a vis where I’m going to live and the job(s) that I want to pursue. It feels GREAT!!!

    ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ˜€

  167.  #167Liquid Light on December 14, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    One more thing…I just wasn’t seeing how it all could come together (its very expensive to live here) and it was really bumming me out…but now I see a path! I see a way to have my cake and eat it too…Yum!

  168.  #168michele on December 14, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    Thanks liquid light….yes I am open to the possibility the only problem is I don’t seem to be on his radar. 3 weeks with out him reaching out to me…feels very old behavior and makes me feel very insignificant. No contact….no good. And so while I hoped for a new changed man it doesn’t feel that way : (

  169.  #169Liquid Light on December 14, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    yes, I see what you mean, you are wise to be cautious Michele. Its possible that this is a pretty heavy decision that he’s weighing and wants to give it time to think about. Either way, it may the best thing to sit back and observe his behavior and see what he does. What he does next will speak volumes… Anyway, it sounds like that’s what you are doing. The saga continues…never a dull moment! ๐Ÿ™‚

  170.  #170Kyla on December 14, 2013 at 4:32 pm

    Argh went for a short coffee date it was going fine and I thought mmm it would feel good to see him again and then BAM! He slaps my bum as I’m putting on my coat! I whirl around and say I feel mad and he laughs saying “I think we’ll be so compatible in bed, I’m very dominant and you seem quite submissive!” tries to grab my hair(!) to pull me in for a kiss!! We’re in a public coffee shop. I felt humiliation and rage. I picked up my bag and left without saying another word. I feel totally shocked, at no point leading up to that was sex mentioned and I felt totally comfortable in his presence. I can feel my pulse pounding. I’ve since ignored 3 texts about bringing out the animal in him and wanting to ravage me. Wow.. just.. wow.. I feel sooo angry.

  171.  #171Liquid Light on December 14, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    Kyla, Wow, wow, and WOW! You really brought out the animal in him! :O

    Talk about showing you who he is right up front, OMG! At least now you know and you can walk away if you’re not interested.

    You must have a lot of sex appeal to bring that kind of reaction out in a man. So I would feel good about that even if this isn’t the type of man/behavior that you want. Just a thought.

  172.  #172Kyla on December 14, 2013 at 5:12 pm

    Awww thank you liquid light, you are so sweet.

  173.  #173violette on December 14, 2013 at 5:34 pm

    A man asked me out to coffee this morning, and I can tell he finds me attractive and is interested in me, and I like him, but he kept saying how he wanted to be friends with me…At one point I made a joke he had to cheer me up about something and he said it wasn’t his job to make me happy. I tried to make a joke about it too, but he really wasn’t bringing much sexiness to it, even though I was feeling very in my softness and femininity. He said to call him and he’d make me dinner.
    I can look back and see, I’d feel better now if I’d said something, like I don’t want to be friends, that I find him handsome and would rather date…and that I’d prefer he call me to see each other again because I’m so old fashioned. I just really felt a bit thrown off in the moment.
    But it seems he was acting out of fear, protecting himself by staying in “safe grey” zone. Safe for him! I don’t like it there.
    It’s ok. I don’t have to take it personally or judge him. I also don’t have to be friends with him! I don’t get a sense that would feel good to me, because I like him as more.
    It just feels so scary to put myself out there that way, but the value of a man like that coming into my life is that it gives me an opportunity to practice sharing my feelings, which can only be good for me.
    Of course I won’t call him, and maybe he’ll wait for me to, and the next time I see him around may be a chance to say that I’d like him to call me, that I’d be so happy if he wanted to take me on a date.
    Any thoughts from women who’ve been in similar situations?

  174.  #174prplpsn28 on December 14, 2013 at 5:37 pm

    I’m having all of these feelings coming up all of a sudden today. I feel frustrated, mad, sad, hurt, unsure. Feeling like after 2 plus yrs of being with H that things are just FWB. He shows me in many ways that he cares but he won’t talk or express anything verbally. I’m needing that confirmation verbally of how he feels. It’s very frustrating for me. And makes me feel unsure and start doubting. Even tho we have discussed the FWB thing in the beginning. And he knows that that’s not what I want and he said that’s not what it is. My nasty voices keep speaking to me tho and that’s what I start believing. Maybe after this amount of time it’s time to just put it out there with him and if he runs then he runs. I have no doubt about my feelings for him. I wish I had no doubt about his feelings for me. Ugh

  175.  #175Tereana on December 14, 2013 at 8:56 pm


  176.  #176Tereana on December 14, 2013 at 9:38 pm

    I had an amazing and crazy experience today.

    Wow, life is just…all over the place.

    Three main things (they didn’t happen in this order):

    1) I “broke up” with my mom today. How do you break up with your mom? Well, it’s not like she is not, technically, my mother. That can’t happen. But the conversation I had with her was essentially a break-up conversation. In any relationship, when it isn’t working, sometimes one or both parties simply have to come to that realization and decide that the effort simply isn’t worth it. That is how I feel with her. She said that she wants to have a relationship with me – of course. But I remain unconvinced that that “relationship” has anything at all to do with my needs, and is really all about satisfying HER needs. SHE needs me in her life SHE needs my love, affection, and friendship. SHE needs… fill in the blank. At no point do I actually factor into this scenario. I am simply an object. I am “the daughter” that makes her feel so happy and accomplished. And I just don’t feel content to be a “thing” anymore. So I asked her for space. I said even if she doesn’t know how to give it, I do, and I need it anyway. So basically, whether she gives it or not, I’m taking it. I said that I need a mother, not a friend. And I said many true things. It felt good to stand before her, look her in the eye (frightening as that was, because she has an icy, lifeless stare), and say exactly how I was feeling, without blame, and take ownership for myself without expectations. I can’t say it all felt great, but at least I made the effort to look out for myself. Since I know that, at this point, I can never trust her to do that for me.

    2) I had a text convo with Orchidman, who’s been texting me literally every day, and sometimes more than once a day, and it’s all very amusing. It will get quasi-sexy sometimes without being really explicit (i.e. he’s not saying things like, “I want to do x to you,” etc.) Just some sexy-ish things. Flirting. Sending some (clothed) pictures back and forth. He says I’m looking cute. Ok. He still lives in California, of course. He’s nowhere near by. But then something came up the other day that just triggered how I felt at the end of the time we spend dating. It was the whole reason we broke up – because when I start to get really vulnerable around him, I don’t have the sense that I am acknowledged. He won’t literally say anything bad about what’s going on with me, he will just ask for all the details, and then say nothing at all. If I say that I am feeling vulnerable or upset, then he just withdraws or acts annoyed. He might make a joke or change the subject, but that’s anti-helpful. I don’t want to feel like that with someone. And I know that how I feel is largely up to me. But it’s a function of his personality that makes me feel unstable, unloved, invisible, and frustrated. It’s all of the things that I’ve hated about being in relationship with my mother – that’s how she makes me feel, exactly. And he’s not like her. If anything, he’s more like my dad. But he really doesn’t respond well to emotion.

    Well, tonight, we were texting, and all of a sudden, he said something that triggered a big feeling of being offended. It took me a while to figure out what it was and why it bothered me so much, and then I realized – it was because he was saying how much he dislikes things that are complex. And this is EXACTLY why I was so bothered with him in the end. Because it felt to me that my complexity was the best, most interesting thing about me. And it was the one major thing about me that he just could not really deal with, to the point of not even being able to acknowledge it. My overall take was that he would function best with a cyborg for a girlfriend. Because a programmable robot would be easier to deal with, less messy, and you could just reboot it when it starts to malfunction. Now, I operate in a similar way (I also need a “reboot” sometimes ; ) But I am very messy, I am unprogrammable, and I will be intentionally difficult to deal with sometimes.

    So I told him: I get that you don’t like complicated things. But here’s the thing – I’m complicated. I’m messy, I’m complex, I’m human. If you don’t want to get involved with that, don’t get involved with me. Stay grounded, stay sane, stay where you are. In here, it’s juicy, it’s complex, it’s constantly changing, and it’s yummy. I am so much more fun than safe and sane and predictable. But I can’t protect you from your emotions – or mine. And you might not always like them.

    It was a pretty hefty message. But I meant it. If he is just going to play around with me on the surface, that’s fine. But honestly, I feel no sexual attraction to him anymore. After feeling the way I did when I got close to him one time (and we never actually had sex, thank goodness), I feel gun-shy. I got hurt very badly, and after that is when he dumped me, very callously and unceremoniously. I have NO reason at all to go out with him, or even consider him at this point. I know he is only contacting me because of “unfinished business” – that is, he never slept with me, so he thinks he can maybe make that happen in the future. But I’m not going to do that unless I can see that he’ll be able to handle me having an emotion around him – and that I’ll feel comfortable doing it. So I kind of kicked him off the boat. We’ll see if he swims back, but I’m not so sure. And I honestly don’t care. I don’t need a guy who is going to string me along again, play cat and mouse, build a fake “relationship” through the clever use of frequent texts and communications, and then freak out and shut down the minute there is an inkling of an emotion involved. I would just be setting myself up for failure, disappointment, and a lot of pain. I feel very safe and satisfied with what I said, even if I did come off a little strong. I believe it was intentional.

    3) I’m going to save it for a separate comment. This one is getting too long!

  177.  #177Millie on December 14, 2013 at 9:39 pm

    Hi Violette,

    I’m wondering, does this man have your # too?
    I would try not to worry too much about what you said or didn’t say…there is always a next time or next man to practice with!
    Also, is this the first time you’ve met him or is he already an aquaintance?
    If I were in your shoes and this is the first time I’m having a conversation with this guy…in my experience, trust his words. If he’s saying he wants to be friends, he wants to be friends. Others may differ on this point, but I don’t like the way it feels to expose I’m interested in dating someone if they haven’t expressed that interest first. I tend to believe that if a man wants to date you, he’ll ask you on a date. At least, that is what I believe NOW after some recent events. Although, some men don’t feel confident enough, but that’s your call feeling out the situation. I feel more comfortable when things are black and white, he either is or isn’t interested. It’s totally up to you and how you feel expressing you’d prefer to go on a date. You have to be ready to hear his answer. A guy (mechanic) I was flirting with asked me to have dinner and drinks with him, paid for everything and it totally felt like a date, but it wasn’t!! So, be cautious going over to his house while he cooks you dinner and showers you with verbal affection because sometimes what “feels” like a date, isn’t.

  178.  #178Millie on December 14, 2013 at 9:43 pm

    Cupcake–I read your response to me! Sorry it’s taken me awhile to respond. Wow! I empthathize with you taking care of your mom. That must be hard…to also have your own life. Driving Miss Daisy….haha.

    I’m glad you left your tower and are happier living in a state you do like! I wish you luck finding a job! You sound so charismatic, I’m sure it will come to you soon ๐Ÿ™‚

  179.  #179Tereana on December 14, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    Wow, Kyla, that is just – ew! You handled it totally well, girl. Just walked out, and keep ignoring those texts. I would be shaking, too.

    And LL, I know you didn’t mean this in a bad way, but I would be careful about crediting Kyla for this man’s behavior. This is extreme, but saying that she must have a lot of “sex appeal” in order to “bring out the animal” in him is like saying that a survivor of rape was “asking for it” because she wore a shirt skirt. Literally NO girl asks for it (unless it’s a fetish thing, but then it’s not really rape, because if you literally ask for it, you are giving consent, and it is therefore not rape, by definition). Kyla did NOTHING to bring this on except be herself. Maybe she was super great at being sireny and in her feelings and being cool at the coffee date with this guy. But the direction that he took that is just totally inappropriate.

    I’d say you dodged a big bullet, there, K. He is probably attractive and used to having women respond to his attention as if they actually wanted it. And he may well have a dungeon where he was hoping to tie you up or something like that. Who knows. You are a rockstar, not a doormat. You are literally my hero for walking away from this guy.

  180.  #180Indigo on December 14, 2013 at 9:54 pm

    Michele 116 & 117,

    The only way I think you could meet up with him is if you had no expectations. If you still have expectations of a magical reunion and everything being resolved, and riding off into the sunset with him, I would put off meeting with him for a while.

  181.  #181Indigo on December 14, 2013 at 9:55 pm

    Thank you Liquid Light and Feminine Woman. xx

  182.  #182Millie on December 14, 2013 at 9:58 pm

    I’ve been up and down ladies.
    I realize that regardless of epiphanies and knowing I’m doing right by me by walking away from Mechanic, I am still not 100% ok. I go from feeling good…..to thinking about it….to criticizing myself…..to feeling bad…to beating myself up because I know better….to feeling like a puddle on the floor….to blaming myself….to wishing I could rewind and redo this whole thing! Why am I so hard on myself?!!! What tool can I use to stop this? Even when I focus on something else for awhile and get and smile…like today I had a fun breakfast with my cousin, helped her with her hair, laughed a TON, got a xmas tree, visited my mom….all of that was great! But my cousin said that sex changes things. Sex ruined things. Once you do that, you can’t go back and the friendship is lost. (this is a general statement.) I felt crappy hearing this because I know this….I know better! and yet I still let it happen with no regard for the consequences. I thought he and I would be able to be friends, how naive is that? I know….I shouldn’t care, I shouldn’t give two shits about this guy and what he does…I wish I could STOP. Going back to my mountain where I stood on the cliff and opened my hand and he fell out. I’m going to mentally go back to that place…maybe that will help. What’s the magic tool to feel 100% OK with what’s happened. 100% ok with ME. I want to surround myself with people that love me.

  183.  #183Indigo on December 14, 2013 at 10:14 pm


    I think you are handling it perfectly. And I do think this is part of the process – learning to handle guys like this without it derailing our sirenness. I kind of agree with Millie – I also wouldn’t say anything about wanting to be taken on a date unless he has made it clear that’s where his interest is.

  184.  #184Tereana on December 14, 2013 at 10:16 pm

    3) Despite my best efforts to “let it go,” I still feel connected to the other man in California – the LakeMan.

    At times, I feel nothing at all, no attraction, no thinking, no desire. And then other times, I just feel this, whoa, he’s still there, sensation. Even though he’s not contacting me. Even though he has told me clearly and on no uncertain terms, that he doesn’t want what I want – kids, a family, a long-term partner.

    And yet, what I really GET from him is that he has a strong desire to be near me. He feels very drawn to me. I may scare him, being with him, because it causes him to lose some measure of control. He really does have a way of pleasing me, when he simply just relaxes and does what he does best. He likes to bring over food that I like. He likes to rub my feet and neck. And when I tell him private things about myself, or become vulnerable in his presence, I don’t feel denigrated, lost, ignored, confused, or alone. I feel heard, held, wrapped up, comforted, and exalted. In fact, I can remember a couple of times when I told him something I felt scared to admit, and with one small phrase, he simply made the pain vanish. And then proceeded to wrap me up and kiss me.

    It almost brings tears to my eyes to think about it.

    So I don’t know. My feelings are wide-ranging for him, mainly because I am trying to let it go – for his sake. He needs the space. He needs to not get “trapped” by a woman in a relationship. And just as I need and deserve to be in a relationship with someone who wants the same things that I do, so that I can be fully happy and realized, he deserves the same thing. Even if what he needs and wants is a short-term, casual relationship. He may be missing out on all the good stuff, in my opinion, but that’s his choice. And, related to that, he needs, most of all, to be with someone who doesn’t want to change him.

    And that’s the irony. I DON’T want to change him. I feel so confused and all over the map because it’s more of a head versus heart situation. My head is telling me, okay, he can’t be the right guy for you. His goals are different. The things that are important to you are things that he’s decided he doesn’t want. Okay. That makes a lot of sense.

    What doesn’t make sense is, even though I know this to be true… Even though I know that I can’t change what he wants. AND, even more so – I don’t want to change what he wants. I like him exactly the way he is (and I’ve told him so)… Even though he doesn’t want kids, and he’s decided he doesn’t want to speak with me, and I know that’s the right decision for us… I still feel something. Like there is a “there” there. A certain quality. Like an emotional enzyme. Speaking of Kyla’s guy, he is rather “dominant” in sex, but it’s in a good way. I’ve never been able to fully surrender to anyone, but with him it came naturally and it felt wonderful.

    And the more that I don’t speak to him and give him space, the more affection that I feel for him.

    I’ve been “waterwheeling” lately with him, and imagining reversing the flow of energy. I want to feel his energy coming in toward me, because that’s what feels good. I know that if he did come toward me, it would be okay. And the reality is, for me, wanting those things – being married, having children – those are THINGS (the ideas, not the people). Like wanting a car or a boat. But I can’t want them like things, because they involve people. And people aren’t things. I have been treated like a “thing” all my life. And all I’ve ever wanted was to be seen, heard, listened to, loved, cared for, cherished and adored. If all of that was in my life, then “things” wouldn’t matter. So I just feel like I don’t want to lead with “what i want.” I want my desires to exist. So that the appropriate person can help me satisfy them. But I don’t need to use them as a bargaining chip to get something else that I want. That is just playing games.

    I don’t to play games.

    I like him. For whatever it’s worth, and for reasons that are ineffable, he is able to approach me in ways that other men aren’t. He is a special man for me. And I suppose that, no matter what he, or any other man does right now, I can relax, just knowing that. It doesn’t matter if he turns around, or if someone else shows up. The important thing to me right now is that I am connecting to my heart. I am listening to how she feels, no matter what my brain-centered “judgment” of it might be. And that makes me a safer person to be around, and a better person in a relationship.

    I would rather let myself fall in love with someone who is entirely wrong for me, than to hold myself upright, tense and stiff, afraid of falling for anyone at all. Like a trust exercise. You just close your eyes and let the hands catch you….

  185.  #185Indigo on December 14, 2013 at 10:20 pm


    Have you ever felt bored texting with a guy without them making plans to see you?

    The last time I saw C was on Tuesday night when we watched a movie together and he was very sweet and affectionate. He has been texting me pretty much every day since then – very sweet and interested, asking me how my day was etc. Yesterday he texted me happy birthday and was asking all kinds of questions about what I was up to. I responded in feeling messages, but just felt like “I’m not prepared to do this any more.” I said “Sorry but I feel weird chatting to you like this instead of seeing you.” And he immediately said we could do something tomorrow if I was keen. It was actually a pretty good reminder not to get hung up on a guy unless he was in front of me, and not to lose my sense of self.

  186.  #186Indigo on December 14, 2013 at 10:26 pm


    Forgive yourself. Forgive him. Show love to yourself that way. Even though you didn’t do anything “wrong”, let yourself off the hook.

    Also, having those ups and downs on this journey is perfectly normal. It takes time to build up a strong sense of self and a strong self-love, and learn to celebrate every small step you take towards that. It’s like training a new muscle – you wouldn’t beat up on someone if they couldn’t hold a 50 kg weight for 100 reps the first day?


  187.  #187Tammy on December 14, 2013 at 11:03 pm

    I feel confused by the behavior of two men in my life. They both tell me that they are not ready for a Committment- (that’s fine- I will accept where they are at and continue to keep my options open ). P, whom I am in contact via phone quite often, says he is scared to spend any time with me because if we become intimate he is sure he will fall in love with me. He is always there for me as a friend and has been a great support. He says I am the only person that he shares private things with. I am the only friend he told about a cancer scare! He says he loves me all the time- over the phone mind you! But, then he is quick to say it is as a friend. He says he wants to be around me more but he is sure he will fall in love with me and he promised himself that he would never fall in love again.
    M, has spent a good deal of time with me and we have been intimate on many levels. He has been more vocal with his feelings. He says that I am too much, I am more woman than most men could handle- that he is so guarded and perfection driven but he thinks that all my imperfections are all out in the open for him to see- that I am so transparent. Because of this he says he feels comfortable letting down his guard around me- that I am the only person that knows the “real” him not just the success driven stern business man he lets others see. He has even felt comfortable enough to share secret fantasies, dreams, and ideas with me. M has even cried on my shoulder as he was vulnerable and let some stress out. He says I am the only person he trusts like that and I could devastate him and he knows it. He says I scare him because he knows he is not emotionally stable enough at this stage of his life to give himself totally to a committed relationship. He says the more time he spends with me the more time he wants. He says I am the only woman he has ever been around that tells him what she truly feels not just what they think he may want to hear. He says he on purpose tries to not come around me because he knows he will want to stay. He has even said he is getting closer to committing and marrying me. He says he does not want a girlfriend or to date when he is ready. He says when the time comes that he is ready he will want to settle down.
    Okay: from what I have learned from Rori’s materials I know I should not expect any kind of outcome from these men. Also, I should just keep myself open to all possibilities and people. I am becoming more comfortable with this concept. It gather that she is saying to live the moment, to relax in it, to allow life to blossom. (Oooooh I just had a beautiful mental image of this that makes me feel so serene and airy and happy!)
    Confusion: Am I doing something wrong with these men or am doing something so right that they are running? My mind plays both scenarios. Why do they both say that more time spent with me would mean the demise of their singledom? That they deeply desire to spend time with me but both say they are scared of me? Scared that they will want to commit and scared they will fall in love? Neither seems to trust himself around me! Haha!
    Am I being all sireny without being aware of what I am doing? ( I have just recently started studying Rori’s methods)
    I could be wrong but seems to me that if these two noncommittal men feel this way being with me perhaps a man that is ready would leap right into my whatever it is!
    Please share your thoughts on this! Thanks ladies!

  188.  #188Tammy on December 14, 2013 at 11:27 pm

    #183 Tereana- omg you just described exactly ( sans the kids, because I gave 4 and want no more!) what I feel for M! I, too, try to rationalize that M is not right for me because he is not ready and frankly he does some jerk man cave things that irk me sometimes. But when I settle down and really listen to my heart, my feelings, my core: I love this man! Only M and God know if he is ever going to come around! I have to be okay whether he does or not! That is what is am doing now! Learning to be okay with each moment, each feeling, each outcome. It is all good! It all brings me closer to the beauty that is in me and around me.
    Thing is, I cannot and will not deny my feelings for M to myself anymore! I tried to stuff the feelings down because I do not want to be hurt but that was hurting me anyway. So like you, I am willing to allow myself to love!
    You are awesome!

  189.  #189Millie on December 15, 2013 at 12:35 am

    184 Indigo–

    Yes! I find myself feeling disinterested and a little frustrated if a guy is texting constantly, but not moving forward with plans. I realized that next new guy that enters my life, i need to set a standard up front that I’m not “available” through texting. Here and there yes, but not long spans of conversation. (I don’t know how often or long you and your guy talk through text) But I realized I was sending the signal that this kind of conversing is ok, that I was willing to give my time to text and I’m not anymore. If a man wants to talk to me, I’m going to let him know I prefer a phone call and I also prefer plans not be made through a text. I realized that too…

  190.  #190Millie on December 15, 2013 at 12:37 am

    Indigo– thank you, forgiving myself seems to be where I continue to get stuck.

  191.  #191Millie on December 15, 2013 at 12:55 am

    Hi Tammy,

    It sounds to me that you are mastering the art of being sireny! and that these guys just aren’t ready for you. From what you wrote about them, it sounds like both of them have their own emotional work to do on themselves and can’t be “there” for you in the way you are for them. What are you looking for right now? I’m in a place right now where I’m really trying to listen to what men say and take the words they use at face value. If you want a man that can Do relationship, I would really listen to what they are saying and ask myself if I even want to be with/see them romantically.

    This is what they’ve been saying to you (reposted from your post):
    -they are not ready for a Committment
    -he is scared to spend any time with me
    -he is scared he will fall in love with me
    -He says he loves me all the time (but not in person) But, then he is quick to say it is as a friend.
    -he promised himself that he would never fall in love again.
    -He says that I am too much, I am more woman than most men could handle
    – he says I scare him because he knows he is not emotionally stable enough at this stage of his life to give himself totally to a committed relationship
    -He says he on purpose tries to not come around me because he knows he will want to stay.

    Do you really want to keep seeing and entertaining the idea of a relationship with a man that is “scared” of spending time with you, tries to stay away, and admits he made a promise to himself never to fall in love?? This guy is obviously battling something within himself. You could continue seeing them and continue being the siren you are….or maybe open that space up for new men to come in. What do you think/feel? It doesn’t sound to me like you are doing anything wrong, these just aren’t the guys for you….I feel like a man that is more emotionally stable and “on the same page” within himself is out there. xo

  192.  #192Tammy on December 15, 2013 at 1:19 am

    Hi! Thanks Millie! I am starting to work on just listening to what a man says too! You know if someone talks enough eventually they will reveal who they are if you are listening. And these two talk a lot!
    P is someone whom I care very much about but at this point I don’t feel I would want to marry him. I think friend is all I feel for him. But….
    M is another story! I have been listening to what he says and when we are together he spends about 90% of his words- and, hey, he talks ALOT- telling me how wonderful it is being with me- how at home he feels. According to him It is when he leaves that he starts talking himself out of an “us”. He has also said that I am the only one in his life that he does not want to mess things up with because when he ready he wants a chance with me if I am not in another relationship.
    So, to answer your question, yes, I do want to see M and think relationship BUT I am keeping my options open because there is an expiration date on this life! I cannot and will not sit around and wait on him. After much wrestling over this for weeks, I am finally at the peaceful place where I acknowledge I love him deeply yet, I love myself enough to open my life up to the magic around me. If we are meant to be he will come for me.

  193.  #193Corin on December 15, 2013 at 4:03 am

    Cupcake and Kyla,

    Thanks so much for the warm response. Yes dating in a new city is scary isn’t it. It feels good to know I am not alone in that.

  194.  #194Corin on December 15, 2013 at 4:09 am

    Millie and Tammy, yes believing what a man says is hard for me too. I start going into my head and rationalising if I don’t like what I hear. I also find that because I am very much a woman of my word and if I set myself a goal I will do it, no matter how hard, then I expect men to be the same. I’m learning that in some ways men can be more true to their feelings than me because they won’t keep promises if they no longer feel good. I feel angry that my ex told me he would buy me a house, marry me, have children with me and then didn’t. I think that I kept my half of the bargain but he didn’t keep his. But then deep down I know marriage that would truly make me happy should never be based on a transactional bargain of who owes who. I’m worth more than that.

  195.  #195Femininewoman on December 15, 2013 at 4:28 am

    Tammy I believe it is because both of them are thinking about you a lot. Thinking of commitment with you. Men value their freedom. They need to feel that their life will be better with you in it and that they will still have their freedom, The first guy you describe I believe I would minimize my availability to him, even on the phone. The second guy I believe I would cdate with others. I would encourage him to go do things he loves sometimes when he is trying to spend time with me. I don’t think they are non-committal. For many love is scary and men know that they can be hurt when they fall in love. You are being sireny and that is what is keeping the attraction going. With the second one it seems the connection has been made. He just needs to feel safe enough to carry it to the next stage which is commitment. It just seems like timing is his issue. He wants to all to be just right is what I believe for him to make it a big deal.

  196.  #196Femininewoman on December 15, 2013 at 4:44 am

    Tereana I love your complexity and how you expressed yourself to that guy. Funny enough reading the part about kicking him off your boat uncovered a belief for me. The ones I kick off the boat is the ones that seem to always come back. Like their ego got peaked “how dare you”. With this guy I would use my drama queen. Get her out and in full swing to put that energy out there. Get her sassy, poetic and expressive.

  197.  #197Indigo on December 15, 2013 at 6:06 am

    D has been on my mind a lot yesterday and today. Of course we haven’t seen each other in weeks, and have hardly conversed during that time, and we had a rather strange encounter over Skype on Friday.

    Then when I sent him that apology e-mail yesterday the gentleness of his response took me aback, as did his saying that he was going to get me a birthday present and would get it to me when he could.

    The whole thing reminded me that no matter how much we may want it deep in our hearts, there is no point in being together if you haven’t done your work and if you haven’t completed this stage of your journey, the one that you need to before you can be with the person you’re supposed to be with. I felt sad for him, I always do, and I felt sad for myself, but I accept my journey, I accept where it’s taking me.

  198.  #198Zara on December 15, 2013 at 8:19 am

    “My mother is selfish and controlling” with Byron Katie
    15 minutes

    “My mother shamed me” with Byron Katie
    49 minutes

    “Mother and Son” with Byron Katie
    1 hour and 16 minutes

    “I need my mother to really see me” with Byron Katie
    5 minutes


  199.  #199Emerson on December 15, 2013 at 9:01 am

    I’m seeing myself slip into lean forward mode at times but at least I’m catching it.
    I feel alone sometimes and I want some support and feel like I “have somebody” soninlean forward hoping I will gwnthat but all I get is crumbs ….
    I feel angry sometimes and frustrated with so many things I have to figure out on my own.
    It’s like I can’t take any more input or tasks or I feel I’m going to fall apart and crumple in a heap on the floor.

  200.  #200Luzydel on December 15, 2013 at 9:57 am

    There re certain things about me that I sense will not change… I get anxious and nervous when I am stating to meet men and I feel attracted to them. The only things I like is that I have more self awareness about it.

    I am getting very picky, but ugh I get some emails that I feel yuck, and I feel that if I was as picky when I started circular dating; I could have avoided some setbacks in my growth.

  201.  #201Kyla on December 15, 2013 at 10:12 am

    Another first date tonight, he’s taking me for mexican, yum! I’m feeling very excited to be getting all this practice. I am feeling warm and welcoming and the men are really showing me who they are fast and I get to practice and feel and choose what I want, yay for me!

    I feel proud of myself for noticing my patterns and staying in tune with my feelings. I’m so good at getting a man to want a relationship with me and not great at honouring my feelings and taking the time to figure out if I even want a relationship with this man?! I get caught up in the romance of him choosing me that I forgot I’m supposed to choose too! I’ve been married once and engaged twice, getting commitment isn’t my problem. I’m love blind. I don’t really see who they are until I’m all invested and by then it feels so hard to walk away and so I try to live with these huge problems until I bottom out.

    No to instant relationships, no to exclusivity before I know them, no to letting chemistry run the show!

  202.  #202Kyla on December 15, 2013 at 10:40 am

    @Tammy – If it were me I would limit my contact with first guy. If he asks why I would tell him I want a relationship and I’m dating and I hear that he’s only offering friendship and that’s ok but it’s not what I’m looking for. He’s clear about what he wants and where he is right now and he can only be a friend and if I’m honest and hoping there might be more to it I need to walk away.

    Second guy I would give the no girlfriend speech, he gave you his no boyfriend speech! he can have all the time he needs, no pressure, you’re either just dating or engaged and then keep dating him and CDing if that feels good. If he’s trying to figure out if your his ever after woman then he needs the safety and freedom to make that choice.

    I don’t think you are doing anything wrong, men just have different timelines and you’re obviously so warm and inviting that its creating a real emotional connection and they need to step back and think! That’s a good thing!

  203.  #203Veronica on December 15, 2013 at 11:07 am

    One of the dating site men very early on asked if we could text rather than e-mail because it would be easier (for him). I told him I felt uncomfortable giving my number to someone I don’t even know well enough. I also said that I’ve noticed that when chatting on the site moves to other formats that meeting offline doesn’t happen or takes forever. And poof he went. I believe I just smoked out my first lazy man. That saved me so much time: )

    CDing is starting to shift for me. I wanted to have good experiences with men and hopefully maybe something happen. That had become my goal. But thankfully there’s been a lull and some men popping up that I wouldn’t even want to interact with and this has pushed me into stepping into myself and feeling messaging. That feels much better just noticing that shift.

    Today I had this ‘I don’t trust men/I don’t really want to deal with men today’ energy, I noticed it, felt it, sat with it, noticed men hovering about me then staying away. (I just want a day off from men). And I could actually sense that I had this power to let them be near me or not. I could actually choose this. It felt awesome to be in this moment and be noticing with such interest what was happening with ME! I was the centre in that moment for me. And it was as though they were watching me.

    I also am slowly moving to filling up more of my time with things that interest me, that support me – when I do that I feel separate and untouched by BM, and this inner integrity grows and it doesn’t matter that I’m not having what I’d like to have with him. I’m hoping that it’ll be soon where I forget him more and more.

    And I’m seeing that though I care for him, this situation not being good for me trumps all of his feelings and my feelings.

  204.  #204Liquid Light on December 15, 2013 at 11:32 am

    Kyla, You sound very sireny to me, girl! That story about the aggressive guy, though unpleasant, and all the guys who want instant relationships sounds like you’ve got the attraction thing down. And so cool that you know what you need to work on. Love that. I feel like I’m getting closer and closer to figuring out my strengths and weaknesses too with regards to men and that helps me to work on the weaknesses.

    I get freaked out when men come on strong like that and I don’t trust it. But I think they are just responding to strong attraction and there’s nothing wrong with that. And I don’t just mean sexual. I find that its rarely just about sex so next time I will trust more, and think less and allow myself to enjoy the attention and sexual charge…So interesting to hear about your experiences…thanks for sharing!

  205.  #205Lisa on December 15, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    @ Liquid Light on the subject of instant relationships… I’m with you on that…

    I haven’t caught up yet on the posts,

    realizing! once again my gut was right on!

    “S” had been pulling back and I leaned back… had NO desire to lean in… or chase…none! That might mean something ….

    So his lack of putting much effort into our dates, even a free one… which I’m totally game for… walks, hikes,bikes, picnics…sitting by the fire…

    I won’t go into a long detail but he showed up late again, 2nd time he didn’t call to tell me… when he had before and I thanked him for it… as soon as I thanked him for being so prompt and letting me know when he was going to be late, and how wonderful that made me feel, then he started being late…

    I felt all along that he was rushing things and he told me several times how hard dating is on him, ( humm no room for me in that statement)

    The last night I use my feeling messages about feeling frustrated and though he communicates very well and understands my feeling messages, he also used one against me last night and that felt AWEFUL.. that night I chose to do the open and vulnerable thing and tell him… then last night he used it against me… red flag again

    so basically he thinks we are way far into a relationship than we are….he decided this…and it’s b/c he thinks it is exhausting planning dates and dating is hard on him! WOW! he doesn’t look forward to them if he has to plan them…

    Ok so my gut was about his confession about being lazy was right on! and he is correct, lazy..

    He just is very inactive in his life and he was trying to get us into a comfortable spot in a relationship so it was be easy on him…

    Also, I have an issue with… men saying to me how I should communicate with them to “get them to listen”…. that feels so one sided…. what about them learning how to listen to me when I speak to them in a respectful way, many times… as if it is MY job to change so that they WILL listen to me…then he doesn’t have to do anything…… double standard..

    I communicate very well, and respectfully… and it isn’t my JOB to see to it he listens to me.. I fail to see His responsibility in that….

    I noticed after our talk …. he said what is your request… I said I feel disconnected from you, I need to feel connected, he grabbed me and started kissing me right away!

    That was a good sign… but then he said well in my mind when you were telling your frustrations, I thought “fuck you”… and I was going to leave..

    well that was just not cool I hadn’t done anything at all to justify that… that was a red flag, how would he react if I used my feeling message for something more important…

    It feels bad to me now… too much emphasis on sex… and no interest in me as a person, or what makes me smile, he never asks me questions about what I like… and it all goes back to sex…

    I felt disgusted this morning, when he wanted to wake me up for sex even after he knew I was so tired and I had a bad headache… he kept trying to wake me up for sex… I didn’t go for it… he decided to leave… interesting… he was going to go home and sleep he said… I said OK!

    I feel done with this…. I’ve watched for the fairy dust and it isn’t there…never was… I was just excited to be dating someone that was far better … but I’m just not feeling it

    so, yeah men that want instant relationship…. sends me a red flag… for me…


  206.  #206Lisa on December 15, 2013 at 12:26 pm

    @Indigo 184 I am with you on that one… the texting seems to be a screen for me… if a guy texts a lot and does it instead of calling or seeing me… I get disinterested too… but that’s just me…

  207.  #207sophie on December 15, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    I feel disappointed with him for not:

    creating intimacy
    creating together time
    creating sparkly, magic

    I feel disappointed
    I am focusing on the disappointedness and then everything is fresh disappointment – like a punch in the chest like a lump in my throat

    I am tearful a lot

    I don’t feel sireny I just feel sad and worn out and I want things to change

    and its not just new found grief – its old grief – it’s having no one to play with when what you want to do is play but noone wants to – everyone is grumpy – everyone wants you to go away … everyone says no no no all the time

    maybe this grief is good for me – i don’t want to keep repeating this dynamic – this dynamic succckkkssss – sometimes my life does feel like an endless repetition and i effort way tooo much trying to get to some new place

    I feel apologetic to be posting glumness – I feel happy for your sirens buzzing with your dating ๐Ÿ™‚ I miss feeling the energy coming forward – grief – again


    happy birthday indigo – sorry I missed it!

  208.  #208Kyla on December 15, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    Liquid light strong sexual attraction is a huge turn on. I mean, they are supposed to want me that way! If they didn’t then we are just friends BUT I like taking my time to get around the bases as intimacy develops.

    Aggressive advances make me feel icky. I’m thankful he communicated so clearly who he is, there’s a girl out there who’s his match, just not me.

    I want a man who has manners that would make his mama proud! Thats a “must have” for me.

  209.  #209sophie on December 15, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    I dont know if in part I’m letting my expectations get the bettter of me – i was much more able to take a yes or a no before – now every no feels like another brick wall and negative energy

    I wonder if there’s more (a lot more) I could/should be doing to shift the unhappiness I feel? I want to find some easy flowing feeling again – I wonder if there’s just too much evidence that it’s not going to work…I feel like i’m doing all the efforting and certainly not getting what I want to feel in return

  210.  #210sophie on December 15, 2013 at 12:39 pm

    205 Kyla – I like that you walked away – I would have found that to feel really yuk and offensive too – I like your strong boundary ๐Ÿ™‚

  211.  #211Kyla on December 15, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    Aww big warm hugs for you Sophie!

    I feel sad reading about your disappointment and grief. Can take your girl out to play and do something that would make her feel loved and appreciated?

    Sometimes when I’m feeling down and unloved I will treat my girl to a homemade spa treatment, take her out for a yummy latte or snuggle up with a movie and laugh and cry as much as I please. The more love you can pour onto yourself, filling yourself up, the more love you attract.

  212.  #212Kyla on December 15, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    Oh I just noticed you said you feel like you are doing all the effort. I felt like that, all annoyed and disappointed and wondering when I would “get back” what I was putting out and Rori slapped me on the head (not literally of course!) and said that I was overfunctioning and to STOP immediately! I didn’t think I was overfunctioning at all, in fact I protested strongly! But the feelings I had were proof that I was leaning way forward and needed to put my energy elsewhere.

  213.  #213michele on December 15, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    Bravo to you Lisa for taking a stand and keeping your boundaries and not letting him make you wrong! Great job……very insightful.


  214.  #214sophie on December 15, 2013 at 1:16 pm


    thank you ๐Ÿ™‚ yes – night time now but i’m definitely going to get out and about tomorrow – need some exercise and that’ll make me feel better

    TOTALLY overfunctioning – I couldn’t bear the feeling of inertia – I was just thinking then, I wouldn’t get a no if I wasn’t asking questions – I started asking the questions because I felt so neglected and bored and I didn’t like the ‘aloneness’ but questions are the wrong way to go…I know it when I read it – I know the way to approach things differently – expressing how I feel and then waiting to see if he’ll come up with something…i’m not very good at the waiting and i’m not very good at accepting it when he doesn’t…

    feel a bit better knowing i’m going to get out in the fresh air tomorrow – I isolate myself indoors too much in the winter xxx

  215.  #215Indigo on December 15, 2013 at 1:29 pm

    Thank you sophie ๐Ÿ™‚

  216.  #216Indigo on December 15, 2013 at 1:30 pm


    May I ask what it is about giving your phone number that makes you feel unsafe?


  217.  #217Indigo on December 15, 2013 at 1:32 pm


    I used to feel that way about texting, and then I used feeling messages to tell guys that I preferred them to call rather, and one guy really took it to heart and phoned me every night and tried to talk for half an hour or more. I found it exhausting.

    It was then that texting took on a bit more charm for me.

    But I agree, I won’t engage in long conversations over text, or I try not to anyway. It feels yucky.

  218.  #218Violette on December 15, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    Thanks for your input Indigo and Millie!

    Oh my gosh I went to a party this week and 4 different men asked for my number right in front of each other! I felt like an actual old fashioned lady with suitors all tumbling over themselves to court me! And I mean these were really attractive guys!

    Man that was a good night ๐Ÿ™‚

  219.  #219Femininewoman on December 15, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    Lisa, I dunno. It just sounds like he is ahead of you on the relationship timeline which for me is a good thing. Your comment also reminded me of something I read in the past. It said when men are comfortable in a relationship they start nesting. Some don’t like the whole dating, courting and having the talk dance. They just want to arrive at the relationship they want, just like many of us. If it is a man you want and he is invested in the relationship it is at that time that you want to start rocking the boat. If you are still cdating and not exclusive there might be no need to kick him out of the boat. He might feel inspired out of his laziness if he feels some kind of threat to his nest.

  220.  #220Kyla on December 15, 2013 at 2:54 pm

    Violette I feel smiley reading your party experience. That’s awesome ๐Ÿ™‚

  221.  #221Veronica on December 15, 2013 at 2:55 pm


    With this particular man there was no convo before he asked me about texting so I couldn’t get a sense of what he was like. I felt rushed. If I can’t have an idea of what the person is like or what the interaction is like then I don’t feel as though I’ve really decided.

  222.  #222Liquid Light on December 15, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    Yes, Kyla, I agree, that chemistry/attraction has to be there otherwise it feels like just friendship.

  223.  #223Tammy on December 15, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    #204 Lisa This man may be an abuser. In my experience, and it is vast unfortunately, an abuser will act how you are describing. They don’t take responsibility, have disregard for your feelings, and normally rush into relationships. As I went through counseling I discovered that those 3 things are red flags! In my opinion, I would be cautious of this man and really pay attention to the cues he gives.

  224.  #224Liquid Light on December 15, 2013 at 3:18 pm


    I think the beauty in what happened with that obnoxious guy is that he showed his true colors so quickly. You brought it out in him in that you brought out his passion and as it turned out, its not the type of passion you want. No big deal, you move on. What I think was brilliant about it was how quickly it all played out…If you hadn’t been as sexy/sireny/attractive on that date and embodying those qualities so well maybe the dynamic would have played out longer and you would have wasted more time but eventually this dynamic would have surfaced and the relationship would have fallen apart. So, to me, its brilliant to suss out these dynamics early on, and I believe, it takes courage to be totally who you are – in your case sexy, sireny – and upfront about it. I think if we were all embodying our feminine sexy selves like that, we’d probably bypass a lot of pain and frustration with the wrong man and find love much quicker.

    Thoughts ladies?

  225.  #225Tammy on December 15, 2013 at 3:23 pm

    #217 Violette- i felt so excited for you that those guys were competing for your attention! It made me smile to know another lady is made to feel so special!

  226.  #226Liquid Light on December 15, 2013 at 3:29 pm


    Wow, those qualities remind me of my ex. It sounds like you know a lot about this type of man, sorry you went through it to have learn about it the hard way though. Can you recommend any sites to learn more about these types of men and what to look out for? I was so blind-sided by my ex because he was so charming, fun and good-looking, I just didn’t want to believe anything bad about him. I really don’t want to have that dynamic play out again!

  227.  #227Liquid Light on December 15, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    Yeah, I agree, go Violette! Wow! So cool!

  228.  #228Tammy on December 15, 2013 at 3:31 pm

    I have been watching Hallmark movies lately. It occurred to me as I watched that for the most part the leading lady is almost always a siren. She expresses herself with feeling messages, she focuses on her needs, and does not chase the man. Many of them portray beautiful, strong feminity. They also walk in grace and exude a peacefulness.
    Just found it interesting. Maybe that is why I feel so ooshy gooshy watching these movies? Perhaps it just feels “right” to me.

  229.  #229Tammy on December 15, 2013 at 3:38 pm

    Liquid Light- I found this on Oprah.com-
    When Hedda Nussbaum was a young, single woman living with a roommate in a New York City brownstone, she heard a ruckus outside her building one night and peered out the window to see a neighbor in her bathrobe, refusing to go back inside until the police arrived.

    The woman’s husband, known to be a heavy drinker, turned out to be abusive. “The next day,” Nussbaum recalls, “I was absolutely shocked to find that she came back. I remember saying, ‘If my husband ever hit me, even once, I’d be out that door and never come back.’ And that’s what everybody thinks, until it happens to you.”

    It is incongruous that Nussbaum would herself become the iconic face of domestic violence, a woman whoโ€”years after her notorious caseโ€”many still find hard to understand or absolve. In 1989 her long-term partner, Joel Steinberg, was convicted of manslaughter after beating their illegally adopted 6-year-old daughter into a coma; another illegally adopted toddler, found tethered to his crib, was returned to his birth mother. Prosecutors dropped the original murder charges against Nussbaum, her body a testament to years of severe abuse. Today, after spending a lot of time in therapy and working in the domestic violence field, Nussbaum has some clarity about the way Steinberg seized control of her.

    It would be wonderful if Nussbaum was an anomaly, but her experience is all too common. “When a woman’s assailant is an intimate partner or ex-partner, the injury rate is around 52 percent; and when the assailant is a stranger, the rate is about 20 percent, according to our research,” says Ron Acierno, PhD, a clinical psychologist at the National Crime Victims Research and Treatment Center at the Medical University of South Carolina. “So if someone’s going to beat the crap out of you, odds are, you’ll be better off if it’s a stranger.” These guys do not come with warning labels, but Nussbaum now thinks she can spot an abusive man, or at least a controlling man with a capacity for abuse.

    Nussbaum’s List of Red Flags:
    He pushes too far, too fast, planning your future together right away.
    He hates his mother and is nasty to her.
    He wants your undivided attention.
    He must always be in charge.
    He always has to win.
    He breaks promises all the time.
    He can’t take criticism and always justifies his actions.
    He blames someone else for anything that goes wrong.
    He’s jealous of your close friends, family members, and all other men.
    He always asks you where you went and whom you saw.
    He has extreme highs and lows that are unpredictable.
    He has a mean temper.
    He often says you don’t know what you’re talking about.
    He makes you feel like you’re not good enough.
    He withdraws his love or approval as punishment.
    He pushes you to do things that make you feel uneasy, like taking the day off from work or even breaking the law.

    From the August 2004 issue of O, The Oprah Magazine.

    Read more: http://www.oprah.com/relationships/Abusive-Men-The-Red-Flags#ixzz2nad9XL4h

  230.  #230Tammy on December 15, 2013 at 3:52 pm

    The above list is spot on. My son’s father was so abusive–mostly emotional( but this is still abuse and very devastating)and I honestly say he fits about 90% of the above criteria.
    The abuse was so bad that I packed my infant son along with just our clothes and fled the state- this was on the advice of cops, court advocates, and counselors. I left all my belongings-home, business. It has been difficult. I did not have a home, a job, and few resources. I had to start from the ground up. It has been 3.5 yrs now and I can honestly say that walking away from him and the life I had built up was for the best. It quite possibly saved our lives! And I shielded my son from an abusive home. And saved him from being an abusive man.

  231.  #231Liquid Light on December 15, 2013 at 3:52 pm

    Thanks Tammy. Me ex wasn’t physically abusive, but I believe he was emotionally abusive. A lot of those qualities that are listed above he had. Thanks again for posting about this. I know it must not be easy. Sorry you went through what you did.


  232.  #233Tammy on December 15, 2013 at 4:10 pm

    Liquid Light- I feel sad to know you suffered through abuse but so glad that he is an ex. Yay you for getting away! You deserve the best! Many hugs

  233.  #234michele on December 15, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    Bravo to you Tammy for being such a powerful force despite the challenge. Your son is one lucky boy!!!!

  234.  #235Tereana on December 15, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    Millie (181) – I can totally understand the “all over the place” feeling.

    You said sometimes you feel like a “puddle on the floor.” So if you are looking for a tool, I believe Rori has a “fall on the floor” tool that would be a lot like that.

    All you have to do is pick a moment when you are alone and private and no one will bother you, and just stand in the middle of the room and let all the feelings in. The good feelings, the bad feelings, the yucky feelings, the questioning, the self doubt. Feel it, really feel it, all the way in your bones and every cell of your body. Then, at some point, you will probably feel sad,l and whatever it is that makes you do it, let yourself just fall and crumple into a ball in the middle of the floor. You feel it, and so you then embody that. Cry all you want to. Make noises, pound the floor with your fist, roll around. Whatever your body feels like doing, just let gravity take you.

    You don’t need a time limit. It may feel as if it will go on forever. But soon you will find that eventually you just want to stop. Breathing will come naturally, you’ll wipe off your eyes, and suddenly you will just want to “unfold” yourself. At this point, you may feel more peaceful, or just that the thoughts that were bothering you are not so strong.

    I love this one. I find that when I just let all the feelings wash over me in this big way, I am able to let them pass much quicker than if I keep fighting with them and entertaining them and letting them tag along like a stray cat. So with this tool, you give the kitty a nice big feast, and then he is on his way : )

    I don’t think there is a magic tool to make you feel 100% ok all of the time. That would be impossible. But I hope this helps!!

  235.  #236Tereana on December 15, 2013 at 4:53 pm

    Tammy, that was very brave!!

  236.  #237Liquid Light on December 15, 2013 at 4:59 pm

    Thanks Tammy!!!

  237.  #238Tereana on December 15, 2013 at 5:01 pm

    Tammy, I just read your #187 note to me – thank you!! That made me feel so lovely to read ๐Ÿ™‚

  238.  #239Tereana on December 15, 2013 at 5:16 pm

    This morning I woke up with a much bigger sense of clarity. I thought of some of what I wrote to Orchidman last night, and I was kind of like: really? I really wrote that? Oh, dang. It seemed a little silly in the cold light of day. And I was able to see more clearly how off-my-own-rocker I was at the time. As in, the discussion with my mother earlier in the night had really taken its toll, and I hadn’t had time to “process” all of the feelings and the deep emotions from that. So therefore, when he was texting me and trying to have witty banter, I ended up taking something way too seriously and personally than I really needed to.

    At the same time, I feel at peace with all of that. All things happen for a reason. If he’s not meant to be “on my boat,” then that’s totally for the best. Maybe I feel more comfortable (and relieved, even) that he is not approaching me anymore. Maybe that’s part of where the feeling of peace comes from. It’s “exciting” when he texts me. But I have a hard time seeing it as anything other than a distraction. I don’t take him seriously, and I don’t really want to be involved with him. So in a way it is actually a little stressful. And I have other things to be stressed about right now.

    So, I’m a little embarrassed. But I think, in the end, I expressed myself, and even though I feel differently now, and I wouldn’t mind so much if he did text me again, I really am fine either way.

    And Tammy, about the Lakeman, well, I think I said it all. It just does feel kind of nice to let him and G-d decide what happens next.

    I have to be honest – really, really honest – that some of the things on that list of abusive traits scare me, because I see myself doing some of them at times. Needing to be in control, resisting criticism, and wanting undivided attention are just a few.

    Of course, the scarier part is that most of them remind me of my mother. I actually have a couple of books on abusive relationships which were simultaneously wonderful and saddening to read, because my mother is an emotional abuser and narcissistic, and even though I’ve sort of “broken up” with her, I can’t just simply “walk out” and maker her not my mother. Life doesn’t work that way. And it is sooooo scary to me to see when I myself become almost – or maybe in some cases actually abusive in relationships with men. And it can be easy to do. You simply get caught up in things that you want and need, and that triggers fears that you won’t get what you want and need, and then you try to control, and in the midst of all that, you forget that there is a person on the other side of that big wall of feeling. That is what it is like, and that is why I can understand why abusers do what they do, even though I find even the slightest inkling of abusive behavior in men to be totally intolerable. And yet, at times, I have found myself with men that have abusive qualities, and I find myself liking or even loving them. It is amazing what our emotions can do.

    I feel so hurt by the way my mother treats me, and has treated me, even though I know there is nothing I can do to change it. All I can do is take responsibility for myself and my actions. And if that means making some really big changes to how I have been operating, i guess that’s what it means. That is where I am at right now. Maybe not big changes. But little changes with the intention of drastically changing course in a big way…. at least that is the intention.

  239.  #240Tereana on December 15, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    One of my biggest issues right now that I know I have to work on is “blaming.” I have a nasty (learned) habit of blaming someone for anything that goes wrong. And when I think of my childhood, I remember almost every conversation between my parents being one of blame. They would simply pass the blame back and forth like Wimbledon tennis players, and NO ONE would win. Ever. And other times, when one of them wasn’t to blame, then it was always something else, outside, not their fault. It was “society.” This is still how they operate individually, although they are no longer together.

    It is very unhealthy, and I can see that and know that – even as a small child I knew that it was not okay. I can’t even tell you how many times I would ask them to please stop talking about the thing that went wrong and just move on. And usually they would just keep passing the blame back and forth, just as before, as if they had not heard me say anything at all. Double bonus: they presented a model of blame as the “ideal” relationship, and at the same time made me feel invisible and non-important, since my views obviously didn’t count for anything.

    No wonder I have a hard time not blaming guys for things. Part of me still believes it’s the “right” way to do it.

    But I am an adult now. It doesn’t matter what they modeled for me. I can make a choice that is different, even if it takes more energy for me to “unlearn” the bad behavior that has been instilled in my from an early age.

    And I think to unwind it, I need to start with kindness… acknowledging who I was then, and letting her be with me now. Listening to her, even if my parents didn’t. I had wise things to say and a message for them to hear. Their choices don’t actually have a bearing on who I am. I am my own person and I can choose to be who and however I want.

    I <3 Me,

  240.  #241Mandy on December 15, 2013 at 6:17 pm

    Something just went totally right!

    J and I, we had intimate time! I opened up about why I feel jealous of when he thinks other girls are hot, and that’s how it happened.


  241.  #242Cupcake on December 15, 2013 at 6:30 pm

    Yay Mandy!

  242.  #243Cupcake on December 15, 2013 at 6:35 pm

    #198 Emerson

    Beautifully written, like poetry.

    And I understand the feeling you describe perfectly. I’m guessing that we all do.

    Elsewhere in this thread, the “Falling On The Floor” tool. That’s a good one.

    It’s always there for us, the floor. Bless.

  243.  #244Cupcake on December 15, 2013 at 6:39 pm

    One good thing about knowing so few people in this city is that I’ve been spending a lot of time at the gym.

    Yesterday, I went to the grocery store and men just kept gazing at me, gazing and smiling. It was like an entire grocery store full of men, and they all looked at me with shining eyes and said hello.

    I felt very Siren-y.

    Then I realized I was walking around dressed entirely in Spandex, having come straight from the gym.

    Ah, men. At least they are consistent in what they want. (And I did still feel Siren-y.)


  244.  #245Mandy on December 15, 2013 at 6:40 pm

    If I may expand…it’s the same pattern as I have explained before…he feels like he’s doing something wrong, then opens up a conversation; I admit to my shortcomings and icky feelings, and that’s when he says he feels comfortable and also lonely at the same time, so he wants that closeness with me.

    Boy it sure does feel AWESOME to be able to express myself to him after he gives to me, and boy do I ever tell him everything he does well.

    I really love how I feel when I give back to him more than anything in the whole wide world. It makes me feel whole and good and as though he feels pleased too. It feels so good.

    He really is a nurturing man when he is given the chance. I believe he feels stunted when I get fussy about mentioning other women when I feel neglected and it’s just a snowball effect from there. Once I let my defenses down, boom! Back on track!

    It may take a few more times of this happening for me to get the hang of it, and it lets me know if and when J and I are on track.

    I feel like this relationship could still be worth having if it is a thing of me being mindful of how I talk to him about certain issues, and staying open, even when I feel icky, and I don’t want him to see the icky side of me! I’m totally willing to do that!

    Thank you ladies for hanging in there with me…
    I was wondering why it felt easier to be a Siren when you are dating than it is when you are in a committed relationship…but that’s because if you don’t want to deal with it in dating, you can simply choose to take it or leave it.

    In a relationship it needs fixing. It’s hard to get on track but after it is on track its easy to realize how it got on track.

  245.  #246Emerson on December 15, 2013 at 7:44 pm

    Thank you sirens it really helps me to read your stories. I feel very emotional today with the holidays near.

  246.  #247Kyla on December 15, 2013 at 8:04 pm

    I feel like I screwed up tonight big time. This was first date with a man I’ve only text a few times since Friday so I had no expectations and felt really relaxed going out. He picked me up and brought me for dinner and wow he was gorgeous, smart, great job, impeccable manners and I don’t think I used a feeling message once, ok maybe once but I know I wasn’t soft and expressive, I was excitable and talking fast! Ok I was leaning back, I was listening and responding but I felt really excited and having such an awesome conversation but it was head level and I don’t know what happened to me. This is the first guy that is the kind of man I really want to attract and I was totally the opposite of sireny! It was a great date by normal standards I guess, we had to be asked to leave the restaurant because everyone else was long gone but I’m feeling so freaked out by how I was different with him! I feel like I’ve blown it already and if not then I will! Why was I different and why am I letting this bother me?? I’ve another coffee date tomorrow and Wednesday so I will try to get back on track. I feel off balance.

  247.  #248Emerson on December 15, 2013 at 8:34 pm

    Thanks cupcake

  248.  #249Emerson on December 15, 2013 at 8:40 pm

    245 Kyla don’t be do hard on yourself.
    Im sure you were more sireny than you think!

  249.  #250Indigo on December 15, 2013 at 10:36 pm

    So Sirens,

    C came over to my house last night, and we watched two movies. He is very sweet, he gives the impression he would do a lot to please me, without being a pushover. He was extremely cuddley and affectionate, in a way that felt really good – he really wraps me up and makes me feel so protected and safe. We watched the second movie in bed, and he was extremely tired so when it was finished he said he should probably head off home, and I offered for him to spend the night, which he said he would like to do if I was happy with it. Then he smiled, wrapped me up in his arms, and went to sleep!

    I was triggered. If I am perfectly honest, the wounds of my previous relationship are still a bit fresh – they are healing, but I can still feel them. So I felt triggered that this good looking man who obviously likes me so much just simply wanted to cuddle and go to sleep. Did not even want to attempt to make a move on me. I made the decision to protect my feelings from being triggered, and told him that I didn’t think I could lie there all night and not do anything, that I thought maybe he should go. He said it “would have been nice” but he was very tired, and then he obliged me by getting up to go and giving me kisses and hugs as he was leaving and saying he wanted to see me the next day. When he got home I got a text message from him saying that he was confused.

    Anyone care to weigh in on what you think is going on with me here? I feel like I honoured myself by slowing things down when I could feel myself getting a bit triggered.

  250.  #251Indigo on December 15, 2013 at 10:40 pm


    For what it’s worth I’ve found the quickest way to get “back on track” is just to forgive yourself for having a night that didn’t go perfectly. Love on yourself, let it go and live as though it’s no big deal – because it isn’t ๐Ÿ™‚ Am sure you will find your sirenness returning to you in no time.

  251.  #252Veronica on December 15, 2013 at 11:02 pm


  252.  #253Millie on December 16, 2013 at 1:50 am

    Tereana 233– thank you, yes that does help! I’m going to try succumbing to those feelings 100% and allowing myself to pound on the floor. That sounds like it would feel good!!!! Right now, when I feel like a puddle, I usually lay in bed and feel myself sinking into the mattress, but I imagine myself disappearing, so that is not a healthy way of using the “sinking” in.

    I have something I want to share, but I’m so tired, I’ll write it tomorrow. good night ladies

  253.  #254Syreena on December 16, 2013 at 2:02 am

    I felt sad earlier my heart hurt. Something doesn’t feel right anymore about expressing that my heart hurts to the person at the time.
    As eiither one or two things happen when I do this.
    Either they say they find it hard to believe as they wouldn’t feel hurt in that situation. Making out I shouldn’t feel hurt, it’s wrong, I have no reason etc etc.
    Or they change what they do and stop doing what they were doing, offer to do what I wanted that they didn’t do that made my heart hurt.
    Second one sounds great but doesn’t feel great to me.
    It feels wrong to me like it is just being done to appease me, placate me not genuine, not coming from the right place.

    For instant if I say I feel sad about lack of contact.
    If they then start to contact me, it feels like they are doing it in a natural way because they just want to do it and speak to me. It’s like I ok so I best ring becasue I don’t want her to feel sad.
    It just doesn’t reallly worl for me.
    It feels so unnnatural.
    It feels like the act is coming from the wrong place.
    Like an obligation, rather than a genuine desire.

    Same with if it was my Birthday.
    If I felt sad that I hadn’t had any plans made etc or a card etc etc.
    Again if they then stepped up, it would just not feel right.
    It would feel like they had learned to do the right and expected thing.
    It just feels so wrong.
    I’m sure if they genuinly cared they just would have wanted to celebrate or make plans etc.

    It is like I am trying to teach a socioapath about feelings.
    Has anyone seen the programme Dexter?
    It’s like that Dexter doesn’t feel feelings like normal people do.
    So he doesn’t undertand their emotions.
    He watches and observes, has it pointed out to him and then does and then changes to try and fit in and act accordingly.
    He still isn’t really feeling it though.
    He doesn’t feel those emotions.
    It’s like something is misssing.

  254.  #255Syreena on December 16, 2013 at 2:04 am

    Aren’t * doing it in a natural way.

  255.  #256Shannon on December 16, 2013 at 3:05 am

    Syreena, this is “thinking” stuff, I suppose, but I’d like to say it, anyway, if you don’t mind.

    First, I think it feels that way to me when it happens to me because I was raised to believe that telling someone how you feel in order to change their behavior is manipulation. Even though I’m just saying how I feel, if their behavior changes, I manipulated them.

    But the other thing that came up for me is this idea that I was raised with that says, “He should JUST KNOW.” And I, also, should JUST KNOW…

    I was diagnosed with autism. Supposedly, we autistics don’t feel emotions. We also don’t behave accurately in social situations. I was taught that my social awkwardness is a product of my condition.

    I wish to tell you this as someone who has looked in on society from the outside for 42 years… no one JUST KNOWS. They just don’t. They weren’t raised the same as you were, and so they don’t have the LEARNED reactions to things that you do.

    People want to believe that it’s “instinctive” to respond to a crying person with a hug. But many families are reserved. Some people, like me, feel tremendous compassion, but don’t think that people like to be touched (even though I HEAR differently, I see people react sometimes very negatively to touch).

    Perhaps if you can begin to reframe it when they change their behavior and recognize that they weren’t doing what you wanted before you told them how you felt because THEY DID NOT KNOW. They didn’t know how YOU want to be treated. They didn’t know how YOU feel.

    When someone says they wouldn’t feel the way that you do, I would personally say, “No one has a right to tell me how to feel. I feel angry.” It’s another opportunity to have boundaries… but kind of a scary one for me, personally. I find hurt easier to speak than anger or humiliated feelings.

    I don’t know if that helped or not. It was what came up for me while I read your comments. I feel that a lot of times, we really WANT to love each other in a way that is meaningful to each other… but that’s impossible while one or the other of us believes that it should just be INSTINCTIVE to LOVE ME in the way that feels right TO ME. If given the opportunity to learn HOW to love you JUST RIGHT, I think you’ll see more people stepping up to the plate to do it.

    Then it’s just a question of allowing your feelings around that and exploring them. Obviously your reasons for how you feel may be different from mine, but my point is more to seek a BELIEF about what’s going on that may be at the root of why you’re experiencing the reaction you are.

  256.  #257Shannon on December 16, 2013 at 3:17 am


    Personally, when I read your story about the sleepy guy, I felt irritated and then amused. Not at you or with you, but in the general sense that men are taught that a good man doesn’t put on the moves so fast… and he didn’t… and he got sent away in anger. Men must be so confused these days, lol!

    The man was tired. Anyway, I think I would send him a message that says, “Just sleeping together without further intimacies feels like friendship to me. I felt rejected. I want a relationship.” That’s a lot less confusing.

    It’s also frightening, personally. It FEELS like initiating, but it’s really just telling him where you are so that there isn’t any confusion about your expectations… and it gives you the chance to either accept what little he is willing to offer… to move on… or to have what you want instead of only what he’s willing to offer (while you WANT something different and think it might be going there eventually, maybe).

  257.  #258Shannon on December 16, 2013 at 3:21 am

    OOPS! That was for INDIGO above.

    This one is for Kyla (so sorry ladies!):

    Kyla, I remember Rori saying that there IS a time to lean forward. When you are genuinely excited about a story you’re telling or the topic you’re discussing, it’s okay to lean forward! That is the time that men do NOT take it as “leaning forward”!

    So you did great, Siren! Being excited and happy isn’t bad. And men don’t take your excitement in the moment to be leaning towards them and grabbing.

    How you do going forward, when you’re obviously NOT happy and excited and he can tell, that will be “sireny” or not.

    Happiness and excitement are both Sireny. Leaning forward while you tell a joyful story is Sireny. Especially if he gets a peek down your blouse? Sorry, I couldn’t help myself. ๐Ÿ˜€

    Anyway, I just wanted to post the reminder that it’s okay to tell stories or talk about something you’re excited about. Even Rori says so. ๐Ÿ™‚

  258.  #259Shannon on December 16, 2013 at 3:25 am

    PS, Kyla… remember that men want us to be happy! And they want to be the one that made us feel that way.

    So perhaps, if you truly feel a need to “fix it”, you can say when you see him next, how great it felt to cut loose and talk to him about whatever excited you in the moment.

    Sorry that I forgot that in the last post.

  259.  #260Shannon on December 16, 2013 at 3:37 am

    So on my own front, I am feeling so “ugh” about my own relationship. I actually feel a little nauseous.

    My ex went to his mother’s house and talked to her about how he maybe has changed his mind and wants to marry me. Her brilliant suggestion that he took and ran with was that he should tell me that he’ll only marry me if I get a job.

    The thing is, when our daughter was diagnosed, he asked me to quit my job. It was a great job and I didn’t want to lose it, but I gave in.

    His mother has judged me as a deadbeat ever since and he has NEVER told her that it was his request that I quit. NEVER stood up for me about it.

    When he came to me with this, I was livid and humiliated. I had just been thinking that I really didn’t want to be with someone who treats me like a gopher (can you bring me a saw? can you get the screwdriver? can you bring spaghetti sauce up?) and who treats me like a summoned servant (screaming my name from the kitchen, but always acting horrifically put-upon if HE is called from another room).

    Then this… I felt so humiliated by the knowledge that he and his mother sat there and discussed what a deadbeat, unmarriagable, loser POS I am and came up with this scheme to manipulate and coerce me.

    The worst part? All he had to do was ASK! Or just say it was fine for me to go back to work now, lol. I’ve been working some again, anyway.

    So I told him I no longer want to marry him. He has retreated back up to his “man cave” again, which feels awful, even if we’re not going to be together. It also reinforces the idea that he wasn’t actually even saying he wanted me again, just trying to use my feelings to get me to do something.

    I was going to go to christmas with them, but now I don’t want to. I don’t want to see his mother. I feel angry towards her, and I feel judged and unwanted. When she looks at me with no job, I feel like all she sees is her ex-husband, whom she loathes (he made very little money while she made a lot).

    I also feel really conflicted. Sometimes I remember how it was before he turned into the jerk that he acted like towards the end of our relationship and I DO still want to marry him. But then something like this happens that feels just so horrifically horrible…

    I cannot stand to be gossiped about. It feels so humiliating and shameful to me. To be gossiped about to someone I have to see again, someone who CLAIMS to love me, feels like betrayal… by both of them. I know I can’t say I feel betrayed because it’s an accusation, but that’s how I feel.

    And terribly sad. And ganged up on… for no good reason. All he had to do was ask. That makes me feel so sad. All of that betrayal and gossiping about me, when just asking would have fixed everything.

    I feel awful.

  260.  #261Veronica on December 16, 2013 at 3:49 am

    I did the stop tool this morning (I think it’s called the stop tool). And then I noticed for a short while my own kind of beautiful that my body was – I couldn’t quite believe it, I kept looking just to make sure. That was awesome to experience and feeling excited about seeing tiny glimpses of sireny being.

  261.  #262Indigo on December 16, 2013 at 4:16 am


    I smiled when I read your post to me. C is very obliging and sweet when he is around me so it killed me to have to say something, but I knew that I did have to, that it was a thing for me. I certainly didn’t throw him out of my house in anger, it was all handled gently and authentically.

    I sent him a message very much like yours last night!

    Thank you so much for weighing in!

    Also regarding your situation, he sounds so much like D was towards the end of our relationship. It makes me wonder whether your ex doesn’t have some thinking and some growing to do on his own, to come to his realization that not everything can always be his way.

    Much love to you.

  262.  #263Kyla on December 16, 2013 at 7:15 am

    There’s a new post!

    Thank you Emerson, Indigo and Shannon!

    I feel smiley and silly this morning. I’m laughing at my crazies. I guess I just felt that click and was feeling like a teenager all panicky and second guessing myself after meeting a quality man. The maybe guys are such great practice!

    I got a “I really enjoyed your company at dinner tonight. I hope we can do it again very soon :)” when he got home and I calmed down a teeny bit. Anyway, out of sight out of mind now ๐Ÿ™‚

  263.  #264Femininewoman on December 16, 2013 at 7:39 am

    “Her brilliant suggestion that he took and ran with was that he should tell me that heโ€™ll only marry me if I get a job”

    Shannon my take is that he must agree with her on some level otherwise why would he repeat what she said? Plus I am pretty sure he only told you part of their conversation. I am convinced that if he truly wanted you nobody’s opinion would truly matter that much. I am thinking that what you really need is to really get clear on your inside if it is a great relationship you want in your life or if it is that you are focussed on getting this man.

  264.  #265Tammy on December 16, 2013 at 7:43 am

    #193- hi Corin! Just read this post! It is very interesting to REALLY listen to what others say, isn’t it? Looking back, I realize that the times that I relaxed and leaned back I was fully able to take in the moment as it came. In that state it is easier to really focus on the communication coming my way. And if I was really in the moment, I was able to discern my feelings truly and react accordingly. I was able to JUST BE instead of trying to be. It is a delightful, peaceful state to be in!

  265.  #266Femininewoman on December 16, 2013 at 7:48 am

    “I cannot stand to be gossiped about.”

    Shannon I believe this is a great relationship lesson for you. A couple in a partnership is a team and they stay on each other’s side. When one half shows consistently that they do not choose the other I say sit up and pay attention. Not everyone have good relationship skills but there should at least be a willingness to learn and to work on it with a partner. What you describe above, for me is disrespect. It might be a tough discussion to have with a partner but I believe that partners need to have these tough discussions.

    I also wonder why would he be discussing marrying you with his mom when he had already ended the relationship with you? What role does he really see you playing in his life?

  266.  #267Tammy on December 16, 2013 at 7:58 am

    #194 Femininewoman just read this! Thank you- I feel you are right about this!
    #201 Kyla – this is kinda late response too

  267.  #268Femininewoman on December 16, 2013 at 8:01 am

    Indigo I can see where I might have been confused also in that situation. He said he was tired and you offered him the opportunity to “sleep” and take care of himself, his tiredness. What you wrote however suggests that you had other expectations flying around on your radar. You expected him to make a move on you. He wanted only to sleep. It seems you made it out to be like something is wrong with you because how could he not want to make a move on you. Again he was only invited to sleep. It seems he was being respectful of your stated wishes. I think it was honorable of you to let him know that you don’t think you couldn’t be there without doing anything all night. The thing is if you were feeling turned on it seems that wasn’t what you shared. Have you ever stopped to explore how you feel when you are turned on or what things you see or experience that create the turned on feeling?

  268.  #269Tammy on December 16, 2013 at 9:08 am

    #238-9. Tereana just wanted to sleep and think on your post before I responded

  269.  #270Lisa on December 16, 2013 at 9:16 am

    @Feminine Woman #218

    Thanks so much! <3

    I don't think I want him… I'm feeling done

    I was so turned off by him telling me that he had thoughts of telling me to "fuck off" when all I said was I'm feeling frustrated and when he as me to tell him more.. I said, I don't like to feel frustrated about date times and it feels ambiguous …. that was a very harsh reaction though he didn't say it.. until later… to even think it … if I'd been bitchy maybe, but I wasn't…

    He is lazy in so many ways, he doesn't do anything active in his life, he talks it but doesn't walk it, he doesn't want to find a job, though he is low on funds and his work is slow b/c he said " I don't like anyone telling me what to do".. big RED flag. Even though he knew ahead of time that this is his low season.

    So, I'm feeling that he works hard when he has work and when he doesn't, he doesn't want to work. Which would mean for me " as his partner, if it went that far" I'd be the one responsible, ( been there done that- not doing it again)…

    He said planning dates for me is exhausting… Wow he has only planned 3… that speaks volumes…

    We don't seem to have in a months time, anything in common other than sex and our love of Non violent communication and out spiritual growth…. the rest was all talk on is part to get me…

    I'm feeling grossed out actually! Wanting sex and pushing for it when I had a horribly painful headache and was having a hard time keeping my eyes open, was disrespectful and self serving… he wasn't like that before, before he would have helped me get rid of my headache…

    I just think his true colors are coming out… I'm feeling done with it… and ready to move on!

    And thanks for your input b/c it is very helpful!!!!


  270.  #271Liquid Light on December 16, 2013 at 9:20 am

    Kyla, it sounds like the date went well and, yeah, I agree, there’s nothing wrong with being excited!

  271.  #272Tammy on December 16, 2013 at 11:40 am

    Tereana- I responded to your post and it did not post!?

  272.  #273Indigo on December 16, 2013 at 12:01 pm

    Very insightful, Feminine Woman.

    Yours is a rational and objective summing up of the situation. I felt shy to tell him I was turned on because I was afraid of feeling rejected. He had just spent the last 3 hours cuddling me in the most intimate, delicious way. To just go to sleep after that didn’t feel like something I could comfortably do. Of course you are right about the way he viewed the situation. Thank you for saying it was honourable that I expressed what I did, I’m glad I did.

  273.  #274Emerson on December 16, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    I need to focus on baby steps

  274.  #275Femininewoman on December 16, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    Indigo – I felt shy to tell him I was turned on because I was afraid of feeling rejected.

    Yummy. This I believe would have been great practice to be vulnerable, open, honest and in speaking up. This is also your fear driving your words and your actions. You ended up allowing it to push you to kick him out.

  275.  #276Tereana on December 16, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    Corin (135) – oh wow, that sounds just so painful. Hugs, hugs. When we do so much for a man, expecting a “result,” it really makes us feel attached and looking for the “reward.” The fact that he asked you to jump through hoops like that shows that he probably wasn’t sure, and maybe even he thought it would make a difference. It wasn’t your fault. And it’s hot his fault, either, really.

    I highly recommend Sherry Argov’s “why men love bitches.” Don’t let the title scare you. It could just as easily be called “why men love sirens.” It’s fun, it’s funny, and she does a great job of showing how you can a strong and feminine at the same time, keeping your boundaries and avoiding that “jumping through hoops” situation. You might like it! If nothing else, it’s a good read.

    I wish you lots of comfort in your (heart’s) recovery <3

  276.  #277Tereana on December 16, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    Tammy, that’s so weird! I just posted something, too, and it went into moderation. So maybe the site is just being very moderate-y today. I’m curious to read what you wrote!

  277.  #278Emerson on December 16, 2013 at 9:08 pm

    I’m forming a new vision of how it would feel to Bevin a marriage with a stable loving man….
    There is a man at work who inspires that feeling in me…

  278.  #279kyla on December 18, 2013 at 8:58 am

    DrWho text me right after our date Sunday and then again last night. It felt so good to hear from him. He said heโ€™d been thinking about me that morning and hoped I was ok (hwy I take to work had a lot of accidents due to the weather). It felt really good to hear from him, more so because he hasnโ€™t blown up my phone like the other men. That feels really sexy. Like heโ€™s got a full and busy life, as do I, and isnโ€™t desperate for me to make him whole or feel good about himself. Sexy confidence I guess. Anyway makes me feel relaxed about seeing how things progress without the pressure.

    Fireman is making me laugh. Heโ€™s been trying to arrange a phone call since Sunday and today asked for a date Saturday night as heโ€™s afraid that by the time we get to have this call I will be booked up! That feels fun. He sends very sweet and fun messages. Feels good when he tells me how heโ€™s very interested in me, feels fun when he teases that he needs to catch my interest too before I get snapped up.

    Oh and just realised J hasnโ€™t contacted since our coffee date Monday and that feels funny as we I didnโ€™t even notice! I am realising that lots of men must be poofing before a date has been arranged and I donโ€™t even notice, I canโ€™t remember who Iโ€™m talking to, its like its just not real until we meet and even then I donโ€™t know them well enough for them to hit my radar.

    Weird that DrWho has such peaked my interest so much.

  279.  #280Corin on December 18, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    Tereana on the last thread. Thank you, your comment that he wanted me to jump through hoops because he was unsure feels true.
    It feels sad because I still hold onto the fantasy of marrying him but it feels true. I always fall into the trap of thinking I need to prove I’m worthy of being loved rather than love myself and accept their ambivalence about me regardless

  280.  #281Mandy on December 28, 2013 at 3:22 am

    I’m just wondering how to “Opt out” when a man is showing a toxic characteristic?

    I feel like it is something to do with the Strong Surrender, which I do until I can’t take anymore…but guys are pros at opting out…

    I’d love to learn…can anyone expand on this tool?

  281.  #282Femininewoman on December 28, 2013 at 6:52 am

    Mandy most people are on the most recent thread. You might want to ask your question there.

  282.  #283blah on December 29, 2013 at 10:52 pm

    when I read this blog and particularly the comments I deel like everyone is always going “me me me me” and everything is always about them. although this is a sad article most comments are about people’s own problems. i feel the problem with women is that they are too selfish and engrossed in themselves even while totally hating themselves by the way thay they cannot even see the plain truth when it is staring right at them (regarding guys) i think once women become kinder to eachother and less greedy about having it all, these “problems” will solve themselves.. something I am looking at at the moment

  283.  #284Rori Raye on December 30, 2013 at 10:14 am

    blah – thank you for your comment, and please see the Guidelines for Posting – Yes – it is all about “me, me, me” – because those are my RULES!!! This is not a forum, it’s a place for women to work my Tools in safety, and to help each other by sharing their own experiences and FEELINGS, not what they “think.” If you want to know more about how my methods, philosophy and Tools work, please read everything you can here and then the ebook. Until then – “judgment” of all kinds is what we’re trying to do away with here…and your “I feel” statements are what I call “opinions” and have nothing to do with “feelings at all! Opinions are not helpful in love and romance. If you wish to share how you’re looking at things, and how that feels for YOU – we’d LOVE to hear your voice among us! Love, Rori

  284.  #285Shannon on December 30, 2013 at 11:00 am

    I feel amused in a sort of sad way. I’ve spent so much of my life being self-sacrificing. Giving up so others can have… accepting the adage “it is better to give than to receive”. A patriarchal spiritual message written for men, pushed onto women like an ill-fitting, too heavy suit of war armor.

    I can still feel the millstone around my neck, grinding away… this habit of complete self-sacrifice is maybe the hardest one I’m having to break right now. NOT giving, giving, giving is hard!

    I find it strangely amusing, yet also sad to see this old message come up… right when I’m cleaning my kitchen. :p Granted, I am cleaning the kitchen for me, not for him, but it certainly brings to mind other things that I’ve done recently that were self-sacrificing in nature.

    A timely reminder that I’ve really, deeply internalized and intrenched this “always give, have too much pride to accept handouts” business. I was way too receptive to that particular message.

    I’m 42 years old, and I’m feeling kind of okay with the idea that I DON’T actually have to give up everything and sacrifice everything and live in misery. It’s a whole new message, but it’s one that makes sense… I’ve wasted too much of my life on a man’s message and walking around in ill-fitting armor made for a man that clanks and bangs around me with every step I make!

  285.  #286Loyal on January 2, 2014 at 8:35 pm

    Dear Rori,

    I dated a guy starting June 1, 2013 and we broke up July 21, 2013.
    The breakup:
    We had a pregnancy scare and he asked for space on July 8, 2013 and about a week later we started talking again but we never really talked and he broke up with me on July 21.
    I couldnt get over him and it’s been 5 months. Heres the problem now: I found his twitter and I found out that he was cheating on his gf with me. He had a gf all along and I didn’t know.
    I will see him at school on Jan 6, 2013. Should I just stay quiet about it and drop it and move on? Or should I confront him at school about it then move on? I was wondering if confronting him with the following is good or not?
    “Hey (his name), do you have a couple mins? I need to ask you something. I know it’s been a while since we broke up but honestly answer this question. Were you involved with any other girl while we dated? I saw some stuff online which gave me the impression that there was another girl, I would really appreciate an explanation”

    Please help me Rori, What should I do?



  286.  #287Rori Raye on January 3, 2014 at 9:25 pm

    Loyal – I don’t know if you are over 18, so I can’t answer you personally – if this were me, I’d ask myself – whyever would I CARE at this point!! I should be dating LOTS of great men, and completely forgetting about this one. I wouldn’t want you or any woman to even BOTHER bringing ANYTHING up other than normal “civility” to this man. Love, Rori