Fix Things With Neuroscience

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IMG_0004It’s all about the Vagus nerve:…

What I love about “science and love” is how it takes away our illusions of control.

Not only (as we already know) can we not control another person (though we CAN “influence” them mightily!) – we can’t most often control ourselves in the ways we believe we can.

It’s very relaxing to say astrology or numerology or our genes are responsible for everything in our lives, and we’re just riding along – and we know absolutely that’s not true.

So we begin taking responsibility for everything. Owning everything. Trying and working hard to “fix” everything.

Just thinking about it – It’s way exhausting to take responsibility for everything. For our genes themselves, our DNA (now that we know we can shift THAT, too!) our health (and how stress can make us sick in such calamatous ways) – everything.

The responsibility for every bit of ourselves feels just so overwhelming.

And then – we have to take responsibility for the day-to-day! Getting to appointments on time, turning our work in on time, taking care of our families and getting them places on time.

And then – we’re supposed to “make” our love lives great!

We’re supposed to “understand men” and change our instincts and impulses so we can “create” better results for ourselves.

Just thinking about it makes me want to bury myself in some nice sheets and let someone else take charge.

And it doesn’t have to feel like this.

“Thinking about it” isn’t the same as “feeling through it.”

All of that responsibility and ownership is fantastic. It actually REDUCES the stress, if we can go at it differently.

Just stop thinking about it. Just stop “doing” it.

Look at your illness, your loneliness, your challenges with men and life and work as “what is.”

That means – it doesn’t HAVE any “meaning”!

It’s not something to “solve.”

It’s something to feel through.

I know it seems ridiculous to “fix” something by stopping trying to fix it – and – if you just can do that for a minute – you’ll see how it all falls into place.

Instead of “going for it” – look at it. Take it in. Feel it. Allow it to feel terrible, awful, scary, upsetting, disturbing – maybe even exciting and thrilling…

Now – you’ll have more information!

The secret is inspiration.

Going at it and going at it when the “going” feels like it’s separating y0ur heart and your brain even more just adds to the stress.

Stepping back and making yourself “available” to the information that inspiration can provide you leads to the solutions.

Let your body speak to your brain. Let your heart speak to your brain. Let your impulses speak to your brain.

Then follow what feels good.

Love, Rori




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  1.  #1IamHis on October 12, 2015 at 8:00 am

    I like the idea of surrendering to life, in a way, but…following what feels right isn’t always right. A human needs both emotion AND logic. It’s the essence of masculine and feminine.

  2.  #2Femininewoman on October 12, 2015 at 10:46 am

    I like the comment about the secret is inspiration.

  3.  #3M.E. on October 12, 2015 at 2:03 pm

    I just read the email from Rori about how when we make ourselves the center of our lives that our man will come forward towards us. This leaning back does not ever work for me with my husband. He simply withdraws back even further and sulks and tells me I’m “cold” if I lean back. He’s always been the cold one, not me and I am very tired of it. He’s definitely toxic and I don’t believe he will ever improve. And he also will not respond to anything I say such as “I feel neglected”, he just looks at me and does and says nothing. My point in writing is that I very much need to hear how to deal with these types of problems if I can other than divorce.

  4.  #4April Rose on October 12, 2015 at 2:15 pm

    Me too, FW.

    Especially when I realised that ‘inspiration’ is another word for ‘breathing in’.

    The secret is in breathing it all in!

    That’s all we need to do! haha. I feel giggly and relieved.

  5.  #5Waterfall on October 12, 2015 at 2:21 pm

    Liquid Light, Starla,

    I posted my response to you in the previous blog 🙂

  6.  #6Lilybelly on October 12, 2015 at 7:01 pm

    Adorable picture, Rori.

    Absolutely wonderful.

  7.  #7Lilybelle on October 13, 2015 at 4:10 am

    This was in my email this morning and there is much truth to this as it relates to the conversations regarding the mice..

    On this day of your life,
    Lilybelly, I believe God wants you to know…

    …that your hearts know in silence
    the secrets of the days and the nights.

    Kahlil Gibran said that, and he was right. Listen, therefore,
    to your heart. Cultivate the ability to do this.
    Practice it. Produce it. Perfect it.

    It is not that difficult. Just be quiet with yourself.
    And for heaven’s sake, stop listening to your mind.
    You will not find the truth there. You may find the answer,
    but it will not be the truth unless
    it coincides with the answer in your heart.

    You think there is more to know about life than this, but
    there is not. Your heart holds the key.
    Your heart holds the wisdom. Your heart holds the future.
    Your mind knows nothing but the past. It imagines the future
    will be just like yesterday, so it makes its decisions
    based on that. Only your heart can see
    beyond memory’s horizon.

  8.  #8Femininewoman on October 13, 2015 at 4:41 am

    Lilybelly that feels so comforting to read

  9.  #9Azure Blu on October 13, 2015 at 7:32 am

    I sooo needed to read this!!!
    Thank you Thank you!!
    I took a deep breath after reading this new post

    “Just stop thinking about it. Just stop “doing” it.

    Look at your illness, your loneliness,
    your challenges with men
    and life and work
    as “what is.”

    That means – it doesn’t HAVE any “meaning”!

    It’s not something to “solve.”

    It’s something to feel through.”

    Ahhhh… light sigh…
    burden lifted

  10.  #10Mandy on October 13, 2015 at 2:28 pm

    This is the first blog i have actually had a bit of trouble comprehending, which isn’t surprising, I am on both ends of the spectrum and very attention-deficit.

    I don’t see things the way most people do. I see through a pair of eyes that see other pathways and patterns that others do not while the stuff that is simple for most to comprehend goes by the wayside with me.

    That being said, does this mean….Don’t think about a job or a stressor as a thing to get done, but rather something that is happening to you, and to just examine your feelings throughout the experience and see if you can choose a feeling for it and run with it? Maybe use some intuition?

    If this is correct, I could use some tips on how to do this. Some serious coaching. Very serious about that.

  11.  #11Lilybelle on October 13, 2015 at 4:33 pm

    I feel confused, twisty, spinning confused.

    This morning before work, a conversation about all the things that I am doing wrong, how he doesn’t know how to make me feel whole (that is my job and I let him know he doesn’t own that) how he knows how he’s hurt me, that he feels controlled and trapped. That because he can’t fix me, he feels that he should leave sometimes. (he has a tendency to put the relationship as a whole on the burner when he is in the place he is in; almost like holding it hostage. I shared that I was angry, fearful of abandonment, hurt, mistrustful and that I may have tried to forgive to quickly and hadn’t completed that process and that I needed and desired to find me again. But, all I really heard of course, was the “you, you, you” conversation. Whether that was actually how it went or not, that is how I felt. Blamed and really defensive, even though I did not portray that back. And then I was dismissed with “go get ready for work.”

    I got ready for work and as I was leaving I simply said that this marriage matters to me but that if it is not what he wants, then he is free to go and that I won’t stop him. And then, I left for work.

    I didn’t text him all day unless it was a direct response to something he sent me.. “hi.” “How’s work” to the most recent.. “what are you doing” and when I responded,.. “sounds good, baby, sounds good.”

    I don’t know which end is up or which way I am going but I am getting dizzy. Just Sunday evening he told me that his heart was 110% with me.

  12.  #12Lilybelly on October 13, 2015 at 4:52 pm


    That really still feels comforting to me too.

    I feel happy you enjoyed it.

  13.  #13Lilybelly on October 13, 2015 at 4:53 pm

    And i am noticing i am using both names. Ugh.



  14.  #14Femininewoman on October 13, 2015 at 5:13 pm

    Lilybelle your post reminded me of Susie and Otto Collins magic relationship words:-

    Because this relationship is important to me
    I know you wouldn’t deliberately disappoint me

  15.  #15Lilybelly on October 13, 2015 at 5:15 pm

    Oh i like that, FW. I like it alot.

  16.  #16Tereana on October 13, 2015 at 5:53 pm

    I have some responses from several threads ago…because I just got around to reading them (ha!)

    Starla – Thank you so, so, so much for your words on sensitivity! It is nice to know I’m not the only one going through this or feeling this way, and that there is more than one legitimate way to respond to my own inner feelings. I really wish that I was the kind of person who could “let fly” with verbalizing my anger in a way that was natural to me. But it just doesn’t come naturally. I guess I’m not even sure what does come naturally to me, when it comes to anger, since I was never really allowed to express it as a child, and when I did, I “got in trouble.” So I stuff my anger, big time. Which is a big topic for my therapist of course. Lol

    And someone else mentioned being sensitive, and having Tourette’s and OCD, plus anxiety. That’s a lot to deal with! But I guess it means I can go easy on myself, because from where I am sitting, I hear all those things, and I think, “Well, that’s all just part of YOU.” And I guess that might just be what someone else thinks about me from afar (where “afar” means anywhere outside of myself…).

    Thank you, ladies!

    And Mandy: You mentioned something about an email where Rori writes about assuming a man loves and cares for you. I want to read that email!! But I can’t see it in my inbox. Maybe it was sent a long time ago? If you can copy/paste, or tell me the date it was sent, I’d love to read it! Thank you! 🙂

  17.  #17T-Girl on October 13, 2015 at 5:53 pm

    FW that quote is awesome

  18.  #18Tereana on October 13, 2015 at 6:19 pm

    I have been taking a break, and I can tell I’ve missed some great posts from Rori!

    And I am back for one specific reason: because this is the best place to vent when I have any kind of “man” anxiety! Let’s call it: “Manxiety.” Lol I just made up a new word : ) So I’m having an itty bit of Manxiety right now. Why? Because I LIKE the guy. Yeesh.

    That’s always it, isn’t it? Meet a guy we like, and suddenly we “want” stuff to happen. We want to “do” stuff. And if he doesn’t respond immediately – yipes! And this guy might not really be a nice guy. He’s a “great” guy. But he might be a little bit selfish. He knows he’s likeable. And the great thing about him is – in every situation, he knew exactly what to say and how to be to make me feel calm and at ease. This is GREAT. But is it truly nice? Because in the end, I am starting to suspect that the only reason he was being so “nice” to me was to get into my pants. Which I did not let him do. Not exactly. We made out a bit, and that was great, but we all kept our clothes on.

    Maybe I should back up a little.

    I met this guy. He is basically my own personal Unicorn. (And I even told him this, a little bit). That is to say, he is both Indian AND Jewish. And I don’t want to like him just because of this. But I have to say that this makes him very fascinating and extremely attractive to me. Not to mention the fact that he is physically very attractive, because if he wasn’t, and he was not also a good person, then it wouldn’t work at all. I wish he was the perfect guy for me. But he may just be a guy who is out there collective phone numbers and getting notches in his 27-year-old belt. Great for him. But I want a PARTNER, and jeez, we only met like 11 days ago. But it feels longer than that, or at least it does when we are spending time together.

    And two nights ago, we went out dancing. He lives out of town, so I offered to let him stay at my house, although I said that he would sleep on the couch, which he did. I made a point of that. Because even though he is VERY, very sexy. I didn’t want to rush into things.

    But now I am feeling Manxious. I was vulnerable with him about some things about myself that are very personal. I don’t know at this point if he thinks we are doing dating or if he just wanted to have a good time. Perhaps he thought he would just have a good time, and now he realizes that I am more than just a good time. I would like to think so, because I would like to think that I am more than that also. I would like to think that I am worth more than a fun one-night stand, especially since it would appear that I am likely to see him again at some Jewish event, which is where I met him.

    I appreciate him a lot. I appreciate all the things he did do for me. Including apologizing when he messed up our plans a little bit and invited a friend when I wanted to just spend time with him alone.

    So now I am having “Manxiety,” because I would like to hear back from him – something, anything. And I haven’t. And it’s only been a day since yesterday. I should give him more time. But I keep second-guessing everything. I keep searching for all the reasons he could reject me. He said that he likes me. The way that he looked at me, talked to me, reached out to touch my face…it was all so tender, and I loved it. I loved it when I was lying next to him in the morning, and he got so horny that I had to go back into my room so that things didn’t get too intense.

    I am afraid of him feeling that by doing that I was somehow rejecting him sexually, but really I was just trying to protect myself from getting involved with him too much too soon, and jeopardizing the possibility of getting to know him more and better over time. I really like him.

    I think about writing to him something like that. But I also know that, here in this community, writing to him something – anything – is “leaning forward” and can indicate insecurity and “pursuing” and “pressure,” and lots of other things that can “push a man away.” And I definitely do not want to push him away.

    I want to create a nice, soft, comfortable, open area, where he is free to enter, to ask me questions, to explore, to get to know ME, to care about ME. Because I am worth caring about. I am worth getting to know.

    And that is why I want to read that email from Rori about assuming a man loves you and cares for you. Because I get all this Manxiety, and yet, when I call up the memories of all those things I mentioned that made me feel good, I feel better when I think of them. So I’m going to write this to remind myself: those memories are real. They are just memories. But my worries are NOT real. They only seem real because my brain made them up. Whereas I did not make up any of the memories I have. So maybe I should give a little more credence to the (at least then) tangible, the memorable, the recorded, and less weight to the things I “make up” in my mind that make me feel worried, “Manxious” and “less than.” Those aren’t The Truth. They are the things that operate to try to get me to not be with people that I like. I am worried that he won’t or doesn’t like me. But I could be dead wrong about that. And his silence now doesn’t necessarily prove or say that he doesn’t like me. It could be that he is thinking very seriously about me at this very minute, and any word from me might interrupt his very important thought process. And I may think that he is selfish and just trying to get into my pants, but I could be wrong about that, too. And if I don’t let him come toward me, then I will never have the opportunity to find out really who he is – or who he wants to be for me. Which could be Everything.

    He is still my Unicorn, after all. Just waiting to see if he is my Unicorn in more ways than one…as in, the man who could really be a partner for me.

    And my only job is to do my own personal inner work, so that I can feel more confident that I am the Woman I want to be in a relationship with my Perfect Partner…

    Thank you, Blog, for being the space where I could write these thoughts out, and remind me of all these things…especially the fact that it’s been only a day (one day!) since I’ve seen him. It is way too early to panic!! lol But it still feels better to write it all out – not to him. Thank you : )

  19.  #19BeLoved on October 13, 2015 at 6:39 pm

    Can I fix this stuff with neuroscience??
    I have felt like I was hit by a meteor shower or something the past few weeks. One emotional impact after another. THEN, on top of that, I had a thing with my new roomie. I noticed that she kept moving my hand soap in the bathroom from where I like it. At first, I thought it was just an occasional thing, but after playing back-and-forth SIX TIMES in one day, I was like…hey, I feel totally embarrassed and ashamed and maybe even a little insane that I’m even saying anything about this, but…please stop moving my soap! It’s driving me crazy!
    Well, she explained she moves it because the dispenser gets in her hair when she bends down at the sink. Which is fine, I say, just PUT IT BACK.
    Within the next 24 hours it was back-and-forth TWICE. So, one time, I would think..she just forgot. But twice? Come on. You KNOW when you are moving someone’s stuff, and especially after a conversation about it?
    So…faced with the fact that we have opposite schedules and I wouldn’t likely see her again for a week, and not wanting to deal with this back-and-forth thing another second..I texted her.
    I told her I felt angry, I wondered if she was doing it deliberately, I feel baffled that she’s moving MY stuff and not the other roomie’s at the other sink, and I need her to figure out something else. Maybe use the other sink and work it out with the other roomie, who is way more laid back and easygoing.

    Well…first, she asks what my diagnosis is, so she can understand where I’m coming from, and does this have something to do with my childhood? Because she is having a hard time understanding how someone can get so bent (her words) over something so insignificant and petty (again, her words).

    I told her I don’t feel like being analyzed, and that if it is so insignificant and petty then it shouldn’t be a problem to just stop moving it.

    Then again, she said she wasn’t going to argue over a 98 cent bottle of soap being moved 5cm and anything so INSIGNIFICANT AND PETTY…so she will figure something out.

    So…I’m shaking, because I was not expecting this, and it took every ounce of strength I had to resist arguing, defending, and explaining. I thanked her, and also said I felt glad to hear it wasn’t deliberate (according to her).

    And now I feel totally ill at ease with this woman in my home. Part of me wants to give her the benefit of the doubt, that she didn’t mean to be condescending and rude, and the other part of me feels like…nooo, she totally did. She probably felt attacked when I said I felt angry and so she was attacking back. I didn’t say anything mean or judgey or anything, and now I feel guarded. I’ve only seen her once since the other day, just a while ago as we passed in the kitchen, and I really just want to avoid her.

    Which is why I’m here, processing, because I’m wondering if this is an unhealthy avoidance pattern. Should I approach her and say hey, how did you mean the stuff you said by text because it felt awful and I wonder if it just came across that way because of text? I hate feeling unsafe in my own home.

  20.  #20Tereana on October 13, 2015 at 7:09 pm

    Good to see your post. Oh those unicorns…. Ugh. Mine are smart and successful men. The ones who know so much about so many different things. If they are tall with light eyes, I’m a sucker.
    Knight is 6’3, blue eyes, has 2 degrees, was also a cop… Now in management and seems very knowledgable about many many things. like men with authority… Strength.
    It’s been a little over two weeks of daily communication. The past few days it’s been less… And I started to panic just a bit. I leaned back and kept busy. He’s leaned forward, contacted me everyday. Says he’s swamped at work. This morning he called me while I was at work and left a nice little message. Tonight he sent me a picture from work to show me how crazy busy it is there. We have talked A LOT about feelings and hopes and dreams, future possibilities…. It’s really nice just having a normal day of conversation and not feel panicked. I took a nap, ran an errand, picked up dinner and watched tv with my kids. Happy night. We don’t have plans made for our next date yet. Typically I would feel pretty stressed to think I may not see a guy two weekends in a row.. When I really like them. But the thing I’ve come to realize, I can make plans. I will be perfectly fine not seeing him. Me leaning forward may get me plans, but I won’t feel as good if I’m the one bringing it up. I’ve always been very impatient and urgent. Worried about wasting time or lost opportunity. I’m not going there anymore. If a man wants to be with me… He’ll figure out how to make that happen. He doesn’t need my help!

  21.  #21Turquoise on October 13, 2015 at 7:23 pm

    Omg… Not sure what I did… My daughter was talking to me and somehow my post above says Tereana instead of me… Sorry T!!

  22.  #22Lilybelly on October 13, 2015 at 7:51 pm

    Turq, are you talking about #15? I think thats you but dont want to assume. It appears the real Tereana is here too.

    So good to see so many familiar peeps.

  23.  #23Mandy on October 13, 2015 at 8:45 pm

    I am having man anxiety too. Valentine said he was going to do all this stuff for me and see me but I have been waiting quite awhile and it turns me off. I understand if he is in a tough spot, moving and working and taking care of a child, of course, but goodness, I don’t like waiting, as you all know. my least favorite thing to do. Not very Sireny feeling to wait for someone.

    Number one, get busy and stay busy, number two keep CDIng and number three date myself…number four stay open…

    I am truly afraid of speaking feeling messages. I am almost certain it would overwhelm him, so I am just noticing what feels good and what would feel good.

    Boy I feel the anger build when I feel taken for granted, lol…

    Help me stay open!!! 🙂

  24.  #24Tereana on October 13, 2015 at 9:16 pm

    Turq – Your post says Tereana? I didn’t notice that. But my posts seem to have my name on them. Not sure what happened? But any way, no worries! 🙂

    BeLoved, I love that you posted about your roommate issues. It is nice to know that I am not the only one who has had roommate issues recently. Maybe there *was* a meteor shower. In my life, my awful roommate did move out, and thankfully sooner rather than later. I don’t know if it was because I contacted the landlords or not. But after doing that, and then going to my mother’s house for a few days, I came home to find out that she had moved her move-out date to be October 3rd, not November 1st. Whew! The new roommate has not moved in yet, but so far, she seems nice, and she and the other one seem to get along so far.

    On another note, I am thinking about security: namely, what it would feel like to feel real security. I think that I try to convince myself that I feel secure, and tell myself things that I think will elicit a security feeling, and it works for a while, until doubt creeps back in (self-doubt). A truly secure feeling feels foreign to me. But I am holding out hope that I may still be able to experience what it is really like in this life time…

  25.  #25Tereana on October 13, 2015 at 9:22 pm

    There is one thing that bothered me about Unicorn Man. It was the fact that he didn’t tell me he had a sore throat until the morning after we went out. And it bothers me that he didn’t tell me. But even more so, I feel bewildered why he didn’t, since I had already told him that I had a head cold. So it’s not like it even would have mattered to me. As long as it wasn’t something worse, he wouldn’t have been getting me sick. I was already a little bit sick! And I did him the courtesy of warning him, so that he could decide if he wanted to kiss me or not (he did). But I did not get the same courtesy back. And then he kept joking that he was “innocent,” when he so clearly was not. I poked fun at him about it. But it really does make me wonder on a deeper level, because it just seems like a human thing to do – to warn someone before you communicate a possible disease to them.

    And I did get a little sore throat from him. Not too bad. But has he texted or contacted me to see how I feel? No. Has he contacted me at all? No. As per our conversation before he left my house, I did send him some information that he wanted. Well, I offered, and he said yes. Maybe I should not have. But anyway, he has not gotten back.

    And so these things make me want to take him down a peg in my mind to where he’s not the greatest guy ever. He’s just another selfish guy who wants a hookup. And I am a selfish woman who wants more than that.

  26.  #26Indigo on October 13, 2015 at 10:16 pm

    Beloved 18,

    I had a similar situation recently with one of my neighbours, where he was being a prize-winning d*uche, and I worked out that engaging with him directly was not the way to go. He saw it as a power play between me and him, which it was not, and perhaps your roommate sees it the same way. In this kind of a stance, the person doesn’t want to “back down”, because then it feels to them like you’ve won. Childish and immature I know, but bear in mind few people have the kind of emotional agility and communication skills that we talk about here.

    What worked for my neighbour was first consulting a higher authority – getting the trustee of my building to speak to him so that I was spared the discomfort of doing so, and also demonstrating to my neighbour that I am serious. (Is there a landlord you could get to speak to your roomy on your behalf, or is there at least a lease agreement governing her behaviour?)

    What finally seemed to have the most impact with my neighbour was when we met out in the passage, and he had his energetic “fists up” all ready to argue with me, and I went all soft. I just said to him calmly and gently “You know, I make every effort to be a considerate neighbour, and all I ask is that you do the same.” I think the reason this worked was that it was the truth and could not be argued with – all you are asking is that this person affords you the same consideration that you extend to them. To me this takes the confrontation aspect out, and just places you as equal human beings showing each other respect.

  27.  #27Rori Raye on October 13, 2015 at 10:52 pm

    M.e. – the trick is in the WARMTH!

    Leaning back needs to be accompanied by The Invitation part…love, Rori

  28.  #28Victoria on October 14, 2015 at 2:28 am

    @ Tereana 18
    I absolutely loved the story about your Unicorn, and love the word Manxiety.
    I think you are processing everything that is happening to you just brilliantly. Trully brilliantly.
    I think men are just as nervous as we are when they meet someone they like/get a crush on and are unsure whether she likes them back.
    Oh, the suspence, the thrill… there is a multi-billion movie industry built around these most human experiences, they are so universal.
    The only medicine axainst Manxiety is CDing, that much I know.

  29.  #29Indigo on October 14, 2015 at 2:42 am

    Victoria 28,

    This is so true. When I was sitting in the movies with Bush Boy the other night, initially we were just sitting there eating our popcorn and drinking our slush puppies, and I thought “this is nice, kinda like friends, but hey, nice I guess”. Next thing I know, he reaches over and grabs hold of me and doesn’t let go of me for the rest of the movie. And I thought “Oh ok! This is really nice!” But it made me think, men have this same anxiety. He must have been sitting there beforehand thinking exactly the same thing as me, feeling unsure and wondering if he should make a move. It’s really quite lovely and cute when you think about it 🙂

  30.  #30Victoria on October 14, 2015 at 3:01 am

    And, the best part is, now hold your breath here, the best part is that it can happen to us again and again. The pain and misery when we feel we are failing at a relationship does not harm us, does not break us, we can get up, move on, and experience the thrill, the love, the joy, all over again. I am so grateful for this.
    On a different note, may I warn you a little bit about Bush Boy, you know I mean this in the best possible way. My experience from someone who had a job and admired, and he was my hero because of that (I am sure you know who I mean) is that he was also a worchaholic, fully devoted to his work, and much less to me, he really was a hero and a great member of society and I was mostly lonely. Hope you don’t mind me saying that.

  31.  #31Azure Blu on October 14, 2015 at 5:12 am

    Darling Sirens,
    I have read through all of the posts from yesterday
    Sooo wonderful to read them..
    I feel warm and close to be here on Siren Island
    and be surrounded by all the new and “old” Sirens!!
    Thank you for including me in your lives…

    It seems to me
    All the anxiety we all feel, all the joy
    we all feel, all the anger and energy
    it really does all come down to
    Sharing our Warm, soft underbelly
    with those we deal with every single day.

    I love what Indigo shared…
    She softly talked to her neighbor face to face
    Very difficult to do when feelings are HIGH

    We can ONLY do this *IF* we are
    I think this might be what Rori is talking about
    in this post…
    I need to take it all back to ME and my WONDERFUL, INNOCENT feelings…
    WHAT are MY feelings… love them
    feel them, examine them
    Sit with them…
    get angry with them, They are alllllll
    part of ME
    the ME that is soooo wonderful, energetic,
    Crazy, awful, boring, beautiful, smart….etc.

    and then I realize I do have choices…

    Rori says:
    Feminine-energy partners hold the power of closeness in the palms of our hands.
    We control opening up,
    intimacy, and backing away
    when things don’t feel good.
    If you can learn to embrace this role,
    I have no doubt things will get better.

    You are the emotional leader.
    It’s up to YOU to go first,
    to OPEN UP, to be VULNERABLE,
    to PUT YOURSELF OUT THERE with your emotions.
    This makes a safe place for HIM to open up.
    He does not know how
    unless you go first.

    “I feel so good chatting with you right now!”
    “I feel so happy that you sold those items. You took care of that quickly, thank you! I really appreciate it…”
    “I’ve had such a wonderful day. I feel so relaxed right now just laying on my couch sipping some tea.”
    “I’ve had such a stressful day! I felt like I was running in a million directions at once. It feels so good to settle back into myself, feel calmer and relax…”

    Masculine = worrying,
    thinking, planning,

    In return, you need to do your feminine part —
opening up,
sharing your feelings,
creating a safe spot
for both of you to share your feelings.
    At a very basic level,
think of the masculine energy as being in the future
and the feminine energy as being in the present.”

  32.  #32Azure Blu on October 14, 2015 at 5:38 am

    Welcome to Siren Island…
    You are so sweet, authentic and vulnerable to
    share your life and feelings here.

    Sooo much Wonderful things to learn
    and practice
    take the focus OFF of your Man
    and onto YOU!!!

    Something I have learned about leaning back…
    When I first started practicing
    the leaning back (3 yrs now)
    I did it because I wanted it to change the way
    my boyfriend at the time – BK- was treating me…

    BUT what I’ve learned (and continue learning)
    is that I lean back for *ME*

    I lean back NOT to change HIM
    But to start to LEARN More about *ME*
    To LOVE ME more,
    To take loving care of ME
    to get a LIFE for ME
    to figure out MY feelings
    All my feelings – my anger, my rage, my innocence, my fear, my joy….
    to learn WHO I AM!!
    and MY POP – Purpose on this Planet.

    Sooo much Wonderful things to learn
    and practice
    take the focus OFF of your Man
    and onto YOU!!!

    We would love for you to stay…
    read through everyone’s posts
    read through alllllll the wonderful
    archived Rori posts

  33.  #33Femininewoman on October 14, 2015 at 5:59 am

    I also think it is the vibe and tone of voice. Talking softly can still be laced with biting sarcasm and the person don’t hear the words but feel the energy behind them. Tone is very important and intention.

  34.  #34Femininewoman on October 14, 2015 at 6:07 am

    M.E. – I am curious about how you respond when he comes toward.

    “He’s definitely toxic and I don’t believe he will ever improve”. – with this belief do you realize that if he does change you will never be able to recognize it? Do you realize that he can feel this belief swirling around inside and how can you expect he to present any other way when this what you expect?

    I feel neglected – do you also realize that the recipient of such a message can feel blamed, criticized and accused?

    I encourage you M.E. to really dig deep inside. Look at your words and see if something inside you speaks with you.

  35.  #35Starla on October 14, 2015 at 9:24 am

    Hi ladies,
    I am in an extremely needy and insecure mood today. I know what I need to do to shake myself out of this funk, but getting started is the hardest part. I even whined to my boyfriend not to leave me for work today, LOL. Of course, he knows I’m just being silly and cute. It’s been a long time since I felt quite like this. I really just want him to make it all better. I am such a little girl sometimes :). Love to me.

  36.  #36Azure Blu on October 14, 2015 at 10:41 am

    Starla #35
    Ahhhh… such a lovely, warm, innocent little girl…
    How vulnerable to share that with your bf

    Wonder why you’re feeling that way?
    sometimes emotional closeness with a bf
    can bring up all kinds of needy feelings…

  37.  #37Zara on October 14, 2015 at 1:40 pm


    It Isn’t Enough to Lean Back – You Have to Open Up

    Here’s a great question from Lisa that started me off on a visualization and a bunch of writing…and I wanted you to try it, too:

    “Rori, I just wanted to let you know how much I love your work!

    I have been interested in your programs for the past year and a half.
    I’ve been in a topsy-turvy relationship, which has allowed me to go deeper into my own fear and protections (I had a rough childhood that I never quite was able to grow out of).
    After some unpretty moments and short breakups, I’ve arrived at a season of peace between us and acceptance of myself. at times I resisted focusing on myself as you counsel (it felt so foreign) and I felt too in my head to use a lot of your visualizations, but once I learned HOW to have a real dialogue with myself, I was able to use your tools and concepts to start to heal myself and accept my perfect-but-imperfect life…

    I do have one suggestion, though, my guy has taken my leaning back quite personally and has become very hurt and angry at times…I would bet that a post on how to handle a man who is angry and hurt by this would be quite helpful to a lot of women. Love, Lisa”

    Here’s my answer:

    Lisa, Thank you – and here’s the thing: Leaning back goes along with being an “Invitation.”

    Stopping Overfunctioning and Leaning Forward is the first step to undoing the damage we do in relationships – and then the next step has to be opening your heart.

    Leaning Back can feel cold to a man – or it can feel WARM! And warm is what you want.

    Leaning Back can feel to a man like you’re closing down and shutting down and blocking him out – or it can feel like you’re taking the pressure off him you’ve been putting on him, and simply opening up your heart, soul and body to him.

    Leaning Back without Opening Up can become a great “strategy” for managing the Energy Exchange between you and a man…and yet it’s only one PART of the Rori Raye Dance Position. (The entire Dance Position is in my Commitment Blueprint program) – so that instead of being cold – you’re leaning back AND being amazingly OPEN and receptive…

    It’s a very different feeling…for him and for you.

    This is the Modern Siren combo – making a man feel safe and yet thrilled. Opening him up and opening up the emotional depth of the relationship by opening YOURSELF up in his presence.

    It doesn’t necessarily mean deliberately sharing personal and private thoughts, feelings and your history.

    What opening up means is that you allow yourself to be open and vulnerable just standing or sitting around with him. You allow yourself to just Be, instead of being in your head about the past or the future. Without thinking about ANYTHING.

    It’s a complete absence of an agenda.

    What does it feel like to have no agenda?

    It’s different for each of us…so, to do the exercise I want you to do – write it down like I did here…

    Here’s what comes in as feelings and pictures to me when I imagine having no “plan”…

    I feel like a baby looking around and seeing things for the first time.

    I feel completely lost…at sea…no rudder, no sense of direction.

    I feel a huge wave of weird in my stomach.

    I feel peaceful.

    I want to go to sleep.

    I want to do something “useless” and “unproductive”…like stare at a wall. Or stare at my fingernail, or an object.

    I want to “fuzz out” with my eyes and brain.

    I see things on my desk I didn’t know were there.

    I feel physically uncomfortable where I didn’t notice it before.

    I feel anxious – like I don’t know what’s coming at me.

    I feel released.

    I feel “permission” to be useless and unproductive.

    I feel pretty.

    And on and on…

    See what’s going on for you, by imagining having no agenda at this moment – no “plan” for what the next moment’s going to be – and writing it all down.

    First – imagine a fabulous man is standing right in front of you, smiling at you.

    Imagine having no agenda, no plan, no action in mind. Imagine just being there.

    As a starter: Here’s what it feels like for me:

    I feel his blue eyes …like they’re jumping out of his face and coming to me…

    I can feel my shoulders relaxing and my stomach giving way.

    All of a sudden I can feel tingling in my vagina, moving energy, wetness.

    I don’t want to give up my plan.

    I feel fear to just stop my train of thought and let my plan for the next moment go limp…

    Now let’s explore what that feels like for YOU…
    Go on and write your feelings, impressions, sensations and experience down.

    I’d love to have a great collection of all your writing and experience doing this…

    Love, Rori</p

  38.  #38Mandy on October 14, 2015 at 2:05 pm

    Sirens, please help. I don’t want to sit here being all weird and confused all day. 🙁

    I’ve still gone on other Circular Dates, one with a guy and one with a woman, but it’s been so long since I’ve seen Valentine, since it’s been one thing after the other, him getting his wisdom teeth extracted then having to move apartments, and then the bus route in town being cut off, and since this is so fresh and he and I are kind of being held back by our roommates, I feel like I can barely get his attention for a split second right now and it’s frustrating because I want to tell him hey…it would really feel good to hear your voice…I really, really miss him.

    How do I speak clearly and shortly and bravely enough so I can get through to him and tell him it would be very soothing if I could get a phone call or face time?

    Valentine told me he has the intention of giving me a token of his affection which would show his promise to me, to show and remind me he will be there for me, he loves and cares for me. Not an engagement ring, lol, but something like a promise ring. Here’s the thing. I never panted after a ring. Now I have that urge. I want it hard-core.

    How do I deal with that urge in a feminine manner?

  39.  #39Lilybelly on October 14, 2015 at 2:23 pm

    Mandy? Are you hearing from him via text or are you not hearing ftom him at all?

    If you are texting, I would simply say, awww it feels great to hear from you this way but hearing your voice would feel delightful… or whatever flowy word you feel. And, then leave it to him to take care of.

    If you are NOT hearing ftom him, then you will need to take focus off him and place on your sweet self and get busy taking care of you.

    Honestly though, if I hadnt seen him in awhile and he hadn’t made any move toward that, I would toss him on the back of my horse and move forward. I never desired to have a text non-in person relationship and got pretty good at tossing them on the back of my horse and moving forward.

    And, words are just that… words unless backed up by action.

  40.  #40Stacey on October 14, 2015 at 3:35 pm

    Hello! This is my first time posting. I have looked through the different threads and didn’t really see the answer to my question so here goes. I am recently separated from my husband with the intent to divorce. It seemed almost immediately I began to get some interest in me. I have not hid this from my husband so I feel free to date if I want to. I recently met this guy who was very confident. Not my “type” at all, but his confidence was a attractive so I gave him my number. Now he asked me was I married and I told him my situation and he said he wasn’t married, but that his situation is “complicated”. I kinda new what that meant but I gave him my number anyway. He immediately began texting and calling me and I kinda played it off and didn’t really respond to all his calls. When we finally talked I found out the truth which was that he has a girlfriend of about a year but they don’t live together. The chemistry is crazy between us and I know I can tend to get caught up pretty easily. Especially since I have practically been starved for love and attention from my marriage. But I more or less told him that I did t want to be second best and that the timing wasn’t right for us and that it was best we didn’t talk to eachother anymore until things are resolved. After that he became more persistent saying how much he really liked me and wanted to get to know me and show me how much..anyhoo he wore me down with all his pursuing and sweet complimentary words and I went to lunch with him. He was so attentive and treated me like a lady and I felt so beautiful around him..again the chemistry was crazy and when we were leaving and he walked me to my car I couldn’t help myself and let him kiss me..Ahhh it was so good. My own husband didn’t really like to kiss me so I just melted.. so now I’m feelin all fucked up inside because he has a girlfriend. He says the usual bs like “give me time” “we fight all the time”, “I want to make u number one” blah blah question is this: should I cut him lose and stop talking to him until he dumps his girlfriend (if he even does that). I plan on dating other people, but don’t really have anyone else to go out with yet. I really like him but I am not having sex with him so that’s not an issue for me. But is it OK to still see him if he has a girlfriend? I don’t like being put on the back burner and being told to wait. What would you all do?

  41.  #41Lilybelly on October 14, 2015 at 4:21 pm

    Things I am doing to take exquisite care of me:

    Following my skin care regimen twice daily. I had slacked on this.
    Got back on my treadmill and it feels great.
    Made a hair appointment for Saturday.
    Bought new jeans.
    Not eating bread, chips, crackers etc.
    Being kind and gentle to myself.
    Daily, GOOD vitamins are a must and I am still pretty good at that.

    Things I need to do yet..
    I fell off the soda wagon. Stop drinking soda! This stuff is poison.
    Drink more water
    Drink some red wine
    Pick up my crocheting.. this feels so relaxing to me.
    Read more.. the blog counts as this is one of the places I am finding my strength at.
    Paint my bedroom

    I don’t feel like I am doing to bad at all.

    Love to me.
    Yay me!!

  42.  #42Dominique on October 14, 2015 at 5:57 pm

    Lilybelly – You’re awesome. YAY you!!!

    Love you.

  43.  #43Tereana on October 14, 2015 at 7:37 pm

    I like this post of Rori’s!!

    I am also nerdy and I like neuroscience…

  44.  #44Tereana on October 14, 2015 at 7:43 pm

    Mandy…I don’t know what the solution is, and I may not be the right person to ask. What I think Rori might suggest is to sink into the feelings, the weird and confused. You said you don’t want to feel like that all day. Well, maybe that’s just what “is” right in front of you – the weird, the confused, the uncertain, the not-knowing.

    I myself in the last couple of days have been sinking into those feelings, trying to think of what to “do” with it. And reminding myself that I don’t have to “do” anything at all. I can feel those things, and maybe that’s the point.

    If he wants to give you a token of his affection, then he will have to do that in his own way, in his own time. Panting after a ring and dropping hints won’t really spur him along. It will likely push him to find other things to do, or delay.

    I don’t want to make you feel sad. It’s just that it sounds like he is distracted and there are a lot of barriers to your relationship with him. But if those barriers are going to be overcome, then he will have to be the one to overcome them. And if he doesn’t, then….there is always Circular Dating…which you are already doing : )



  45.  #45Tereana on October 14, 2015 at 7:55 pm

    So speaking of sinking into feelings…I hadn’t heard from UM (Unicorn Man) since we went out the other day. It was only one day, two days. But nothing. Not even a note to see how I was doing, if I got sick or anything (he did give me a little bit of his sore throat, but I am getting over it quickly, thank you very much). And I have been thinking that, while I thought at first he might be a Unicorn in multiple ways, it turns out that, despite the outward markers, he is really just a regular guy. He’s a confident, cocky, 27-year-old who is charming and knows it, and doesn’t have any trouble getting women into bed. I suppose he’s probably really great once he gets them there, too, but I wouldn’t know everything about it, since I didn’t fully sleep with him.

    And right now, I feel good about myself. I feel like I did something to show myself that I love ME and respect ME. And I did it by breaking the Rules, the Rori rules, and everything we say here, which is never to lean forward and contact a man first. And not only did I do that, but I wrote a lengthy email.

    I knew it would be a long one. I wanted it to be short and concise. But that’s not how I am. Once I start writing, the words come out. And there was a lot I wanted to say. We got into some really personal territory while talking at my house. And I felt the uncertainty. The uncertainty is still there. The not-knowing is still there. But I feel peace, knowing that I feel EXPRESSED. And that feels good.

    And not expressed in a mean way. I was careful to say lots of appreciative things. There was one thing that I wish had been different – that he would have told me that he was sick before making out with me, and that honesty was important to me. Because it is. I forgive him, but I would like it to be different if something like that ever came up again.

    And the final paragraph was the kicker. That was where I stated in no uncertain terms that from where I stand right now, I am not interested in random hook-ups, because they are not satisfying to me. I know myself and I know that’s true, and I don’t want to sleep with him unless it’s a committed relationship.

    So there. That’s it.

    No pressure. No expectations. And as I sent it, I figured, well, he can think of that what he wants. And least that Me being Me, and not me trying to be someone else, or fit into a box, or please someone else’s idea of who I am supposed to be, or what I am supposed to be doing.

    I asked him what he thought and how he goes about dating. He can tell me if he wishes.

    I gave him a lot of information. It will probably take him a while to process.

    I am sure he has got a lot of girls to meet.

    But whatever, he’s just a normal guy. he’s not that special. I am attractive and other men are still attracted to me. And in fact, I was even thinking to myself that in a way, I may be more of a unicorn than him. I am an usual person. I do not fit the stereotypes he seems to have about women. And I love breaking those stereotypes left and right. He could only be the right person for me if he were to drop his preconceived notions and get to know me as I am.

    And I could stand to maybe do a little of the same.

  46.  #46Tereana on October 14, 2015 at 8:00 pm

    Victoria (28) – Thanks! 🙂

    [“The real Tereana” – yes, I’m here! Love it : ) ]

  47.  #47BeLoved on October 14, 2015 at 8:52 pm

    Indigo and Tereana, thank you for your thoughts.

    I feel struck by the similarities between this and the stuff with roomieJ. On second and third readings, I feel I came across pricklier than I intended, I may have misunderstood what she was asking by “diagnosis”, like…she is a nurse, maybe she was asking my diagnosis of the situation? That would be weird, though, to say something like that to a lay person.
    The words “insignificant” and “petty” are ringing at the back of my neck, and even noticing that made my throat feel a little choked and tears come to my eyes.

    That feels a little lighter.

  48.  #48Tereana on October 14, 2015 at 9:16 pm

    Do you know how I feel about writing to UM? I feel POWEFUL. And it is a nice feeling. I felt the need to write, because no matter what I did, I kept thinking about the things I wanted to put in the message. Sometimes, that means I need to save and not send. But sometimes it means that I need to send that stuff along and COMMUNICATE it, and not to live in the fear of what his reaction will be, or what I’m “supposed” to do as a “good girl.” So I said “f* that” to myself, and I wrote it and I sent it. And hey, at this point, who knows? What I said could make a difference.

    I noticed that if I thought from a place that doubted if he liked me, then my messages were full of fear. But if, as the email I haven’t read suggested, I assumed that he loved and cared for me, then my messages felt warm and caring in return. So I decided to come from that place, and communicate (hopefully) with that.

    I have a lot to learn about relationships, still. I want more time to practice.

    I better get ready

  49.  #49Mandy on October 14, 2015 at 9:30 pm


    I feel this way too, pretty much put him on the back-burner, lol.

    Rather, not sweat him, not allow myself to be emotionally enslaved by the idea of him.

    This feels like the way to go, even though I hear from him and he is going through some rather odd changes at the moment.

    I just don’t want to create a situation where I’m not able to be free.

  50.  #50Indigo on October 14, 2015 at 10:09 pm

    Mandy 38,

    Here is my take: These feelings are normal. I am dealing with them myself (or I was, they have subsided a bit now). They are so normal and predictable in fact, that when I get involved with a new man and these feelings come up I go “Oh here we go again!” or “Oh hello feelings, I wonder how I will deal with you this time?”

    Remember these are your feelings. They don’t have to own you, they don’t have to control you, and they don’t have to trap you. When it comes to the lovely gushy things men say at the beginning, I have tried to develop the sort of approach where I can hear and appreciate all the lovely words and compliments, but I try to remain a bit dispassionate about it for a while. It’s really too early for you and Valentine to be this invested in each other. Relationships are built and revealed over time. So try to keep your head. Don’t pant after that ring – see it as a lovely compliment he paid you in the moment. Just continue on with your life, have fun, take good care of yourself, circular date if you want to, be receptive if and when you hear from him. I like what Lilybelly has said though – if a man is not making a move to make plans and spend time with you though I’d pull back a little myself – now is not the time to be having a talk or script with him.

  51.  #51Liquid Light on October 14, 2015 at 10:43 pm

    I just saw Everest.

    What struck me was the power of myth and archetypes.

    Men love this stuff. They view the world like this. And the movie was so effective because of how it played into these simple emotional powerful mythologies. We can’t help but respond to them on a basic core level. I loved it. But what hit me was how much men love archetypes and myths. Its what drives them and motivates them in their lives.

    Climbing Everest if a symbol of conquering the impossible, mastering something beyond extraordinary. And I see how men love that archetype. Its what makes them tick. Wow, this is so cool because I’ve never seen it like this quite so clearly before. I see it with my father and my brothers. They all idolize and strive for the archetypal figures of male strength, domination and admiration. The irony was that I saw the movie with a kind of wimpy guy and he wasn’t struck by this. He was struck by how he would never try to climb a mountain like that. Oh well. I’m not attracted to him at all. Just see him as a friend.

    What was so cool is that it hit me is that men want a woman that falls into these archetypal patterns and emotions. A woman who understands them and can embody a female archetype.

    What I realized is that I am a sexual archetype for men. Men always want me sexually but I’m not an archetype for love. I’m not the woman that they fall in love with. And that’s why my relationships don’t reach that deeper level of profound love and devotion. I haven’t understood before and now I”m starting to get a sense of what that is. I want to be more like that archetype.

    I’m going to try to be embody that archetype. Wow, such powerful stuff! This is a very cool insight. Something to play with and strive for. 🙂

  52.  #52Indigo on October 14, 2015 at 11:52 pm

    Liquid Light,

    This is such a fascinating insight, because it’s something I also believe. I cannot speak for all men or all women, but I myself am very archetypal in my thinking and so have the men I’ve been attracted to been.

    I think the heroic masculine man is looking for a woman who “fits in” with his dream and with his life. Which is why the feminine is such a perfect compliment to the masculine. I’ve often thought, if you embody the sexual archetype, you will attract a man who is the compliment to that, which is not necessarily the kind of man who would make a good husband and partner. If you are looking for a masculine, protective, respectable, generous, courageous man who would make a good husband, then you need to try to embody the sort of wife qualities which would compliment that.

    Very interesting.

  53.  #53Indigo on October 15, 2015 at 12:19 am

    Victoria 30,

    Thank you and I know what you are saying. Luckily Bush Boy is not that high profile or status driven from what I can see – he is just passionate about what he does. I would be too if I worked in his field 🙂

  54.  #54Mandy on October 15, 2015 at 12:56 am

    Indigo and Tereana,

    I feel he’s just very busy moving and figuring out his living situation. I am dealing with the classic “cooling off” after a whole bunch of hot dates/texts, etc. I’m sure there’s been many Rori posts on this phase of dating, the cool down part.

    He might’ve gotten so excited he said things that felt good at the time but now he might be thinking more.

    Thing is, that’s okay, I am not as afraid of the truth as I once was, meaning this doesn’t bug me too much. I understand actually.

    But I do still want to see him and give him a chance to fulfill what he says, and not close down, just have him be one of the men I see.

    I have three other CDs and am always meeting new people. The only thing I hate is noticing when we’ve been hot and heavy and when it slows down a bit. It could slow down for any reason, because of changes in his situation etc…but it screws with my head sometimes. This can happen when I have a favorite CD and I can’t help it.

    So basically I’ve been keeping busy. I made my apartment SPOTLESS today and it looks great. I went and got grovceries and whipped up a yummy dinner and had some bubbly to pat myself on the back.

    I NEED those bathtimes. I realized the other dya I felt weird, as though I didn’t feel loveable as I should, and i realized it was because I needed to baby myself. So I bought a little Ylang-Ylang candle and lit it to raise the vibe, and soaked and listened to music, and felt the water flowing around me and taking down my swelling and pain (I threw my knee out of whack running on the elliptical last week.)

    But just floating in the water and feeling the water all over my skin feels just as good as my painting myself with love, and something as simple as my own special bath-time with a scented candle and some music is crucial to my well being.

    It is so natural to assume something’s going on with a man. That is what has gotten me into emotional trouble with them over and over again. The assumptions and then the anger or fear.

    Forgetting about it is the best thing, give myself a break and just be.

  55.  #55Indigo on October 15, 2015 at 1:21 am


    Brava to you!

    I feel exactly the same way. The thing is, sometimes something is going on with a man but usually it has nothing to do with you. I am going through exactly the same thing right now. Bush Boy sent me masses of cute, lovey texts in the beginning, brought me roses etc. etc., sent me emails about how he missed me, compliments, goodnights, the whole thing, and then we had a lovely date on Sunday night and I didn’t hear from him for a few days. I feel like this is a great opportunity to feel your temptation to freak out, but not do it. To maintain your own strength and peace. I’ve decided I am tired of worrying 🙂 Last night I decided I was just going to nurture myself, so after a long walk and a bubble bath with ginger and vanilla, I made a huge dish of pasta salad and then climbed into bed for an early night. Sure enough I woke up this morning to see that Bush Boy had texted me, commenting on how quiet I had been. I responded as if nothing was amiss 🙂 And he replied to apologise for Sunday night when I gave him a quick kiss goodnight – he had looked quite taken aback. To be honest this was not a big deal and I had already forgotten about it but it was on his mind and I said it was perfectly fine 🙂 Men have their own little nigglies as well and this is the time of a relationship where, as Turquoise says, you take a step back and determine where that person fits in to your life.

    Like you, I’m not worrying about it at all. I am just forgetting about it and letting things be.

  56.  #56Azure Blu on October 15, 2015 at 6:29 am

    Liquid L #50
    mmmm… love what you are sharing here..

    “Climbing Everest if a symbol of conquering the impossible,
    mastering something beyond extraordinary.
    And I see how men love that archetype.
    Its what makes them tick.”

    “men want a woman
    that falls into these archetypal patterns
    and emotions.
    A woman who understands them
    and can embody a female archetype.”

    I want to continue learning how to be this feminine woman
    who appreciates and allows men the freedom
    to be the masculine!!!

  57.  #57Azure Blu on October 15, 2015 at 7:16 am

    Indigo #54
    all your cding is very enlightning and inspirational
    for me!!

    I realize we all have our individual journeys and

    I know I have shared this before…
    But I have found after a man has been enthusiastically moving toward me
    for awhile…
    I have been experimenting with showing some encouragement
    by texting first or calling with short fun, warm contact….
    I’ve noticed most of the time
    men feel more at ease knowing that I also
    am interested in them….
    the attraction isn’t one sided.

    Dominque has encouraged experimenting with some leaning forward
    especially if the cd has been enthusiastic,
    consistent in his excitement with you!!!

  58.  #58Lilybelly on October 15, 2015 at 8:32 am

    Thank you, Dominique.

    Big break throughs and shifts in energy have happened over the last couple days. This has happened for both of us.

    I’ll share when I am able.

    Have you arrived safe and sound?


  59.  #59Starla on October 15, 2015 at 10:22 am

    Mandy, I feel honored to be witnessing so many positive shifts in you 🙂

  60.  #60Liquid Light on October 15, 2015 at 10:48 am

    Yeah, Indigo, it is so fascinating. It hit me shortly after the movie started that we are wired (especially men I think) to respond to these archetypes. It almost at this primal level that we respond to unconsciously. I just suddenly “got it” as I was watching the movie. As women, if we can tap into and connect to a man on that primal level then I believe that’s what they are desperately seeking.

    Once we do it, they are like putty in our hands and completely at our mercy! 🙂

  61.  #61Indigo on October 15, 2015 at 10:58 am

    Ok, someone needs to tell me what the deal is with a guy, when you go out with him once, specifically tell him you are not interested in dating, decline all further invitations, do not respond to multiple messages that he sends you, SPECIFICALLY tell him you are dating someone else, block multiple profiles he has created on a dating site, then in desperation tell him that you are just not interested will he please stop contacting you, and he creates more profiles on the dating site and continues to message you? What on earth is this??? It is beyond creepy. I do not know how much more clear I can be. I am almost tempted to tell him that if he had not behaved in this manner, I would have given him a chance a long time ago, but I fear this would only stoke his fervour even more.

    Just to be clear, this is not some stranger I have never met. I met him through friends a handful of times, and now specifically avoid that crowd because I do not want to run into him. What IS this level of persistence? I feel exasperated and harassed.

  62.  #62Liquid Light on October 15, 2015 at 1:35 pm

    Indigo, maybe to get him to be not interested in you, just do a total 180 – call him all the time, stalk him on FB, ask him out repeatedly, don’t accept No for an answer etc. That will probably get him to lose interest fast. LOL

  63.  #63Tereana on October 15, 2015 at 2:36 pm

    Everything is changing all the time. Sometimes there are no men around. Sometimes there are lots. I keep thinking that everything can changevijna short amount of time – I have seen it happen to many people. And yet I still struggle.

    I struggle with my boundaries. I struggle with my sense of self. I struggle with my voice. I struggle with the way to be in my femininity and still relate to a man. Because the basic way I relate to people is through same-ness. I try to find the parts in me that reflect the way the man is, so he can say, “ah, look, there is someone like me. She’s not like the other girls.” But that’s not what he wants. A man isn’t looking for another man if he’s looking for a woman. I don’t deny my femininity in this interaction, I just leave it aside, to pick it up later, when he’s not around.

    It’s not a winning strategy, I can tell you.

    But I feel AFRAID to be feminine. Being “feminine” around a guy makes me feel weak, insecure, at a disadvantage. I feel judged, assessed, and potentially rejected. And I react to him as such – out of fear and negativity – instead of positive thinking, relaxed attitudes, and fun. That is, of course, who I think I am, on the inside. It’s who I can be, in the beginning. But it’s not who I become as time goes on and I get more involved.

    More on this later, I think. Just a thought I was having…

  64.  #64Tereana on October 15, 2015 at 2:40 pm

    Indigo, you could do what LL suggests. Lol. But in all seriousness, this is stalking behavior. If you can collect evidence of this, you can issue a restraining order. It may not stop him from trying, but at least then, if he does, he will face consequences. This may not be a moment for feeling messages. This may be a time for legal protection…your call.

    Use your gut

  65.  #65Tereana on October 15, 2015 at 3:09 pm

    So I am examining my feelings. And one reason I would say that I feel powerful today is that I did not sleep with UM on Monday. I could have. I feel like that was the social expectation. And I am fine with not being totally in line with what people expect. I feel like I don’t care if they judge me or are mad or think I was stupid. (I may have been wondering some of those things myself – for example, should I have just taken advantage of the moment, lived in “the now,” and gone for it?) But I don’t think I was. Maybe I could have communicated better, or said or done some things better. But I didn’t make the “wrong” choice.

    I worry a lot about making a wrong choice. But I didn’t. And I knlw that, because I still feel centered in myself and I can feel my self-love and self respect.

    I doubt some things, but I don’t doubt my decision to not sleep with someone I hardly know…even if I was right in bed with him, and he is ridiculously hot and beautiful in all ways (gasp! *fans self*)

  66.  #66Turquoise on October 15, 2015 at 3:42 pm

    LL, I hope we can be both…. Because if I had to pick one or the other, I’m the sexual one too. Which is kinda funny because they say how sweet, kind, family oriented, pretty etc. that I am, but what comes across really strongly, is that they think I’m super sexy. I could lose a bunch of weight, I’m short…. Doesn’t matter. My eyes and hair always come across really sexy to them. I really like sex so maybe that shows through? I don’t know.

  67.  #67Turquoise on October 15, 2015 at 3:57 pm

    Ok girls…. So I didn’t get to see Knight last weekend because he was in an accident and I was super busy she next day with kids and friends…. And while we had a wonderful conversation Saturdsy night…, I was only getting texts and no where near where we’d been the week before. I knew he was swamped at work, took the downtime to catch up with housework, cooking, etc. and even some tv shows. So he texted me yesterday afternoon and asked how I was. I said I was ok and asked how he was. He said really worn out. I responded with saying I bet, you work so hard! Then I said, I’m feeling a little disconnected. Miss talking to you. I know you are really busy, just miss your voice. He responded with a kiss emoji. I left it at that, knew he was headed to work. He’s been working 60 hours weeks, and not getting paid overtime. Later that night he called and I could hear the stress and frustration in his voice. Work has been overwhelming and he’s physically and mentally exhausted. He brought up my comment and said it made him think he was going to lose me because of his job. I responded that I just missed talking to him, and had really felt so connected when we talked compared to just texting. We talked for over an hour and by the end he sounded so much better. We were playful and made jokes, flirted… And made plans to see each other Saturday. Today I called him on my lunch break and we had another awesome 30 min conversation. I shared that I really appreciate having a time frame and some specific plans and that while I enjoy being spontaneous too.. It can feel more stressful to get my kids situated when I things are up in the air. He promised to call me tonight so we can get plans made so I don’t feel stressed. I appreciate that. He doesn’t have kids and said he always just does what he wants, but appreciates my situation. So

  68.  #68Turquoise on October 15, 2015 at 4:01 pm

    I guess my point is, I was honest and shared how I was feeling in a non blaming way, and allowed him the space to come to me and I feel really great about how things went. Tomorrow night I have a candle party hosted by a great customer and several mutual friends will be there… So I’m really excited about that. 🙂 Saturday morning I’ll see other friends at my daughter’s game, then will see knight later in the day. I may go see my dad on Sunday. I haven’t decided yet, but I’m thinking that’s my plan for the weekend! 🙂

  69.  #69Tereana on October 15, 2015 at 4:11 pm

    And do you know why I don’t feel bad about not sleeping with him? Well, for many reasons. But primarily, because he doesn’t CARE about me. [For which I submit to you as evidence Exhibit A – he failed to mention that he was sick, for the reason that he supposed I would not kiss him if he did. Whereas I actually would have. But in this case, he was willing to get me sick for the advancement of his personal desire to kiss me. Not that there is anything wrong with wanting to kiss me. But it’s the fact that he lied by omission and didn’t tell me. And as Exhibit B, I submit to you that, during the time he spent at my house, he failed to ask me a great number of questions about me he could have asked that would have showed he cared about me. He asked about things that mattered to him, but not about what made me tick or feel happy. But anyway…the point is, I get the sense that he was selfishly looking for a hookup and got disappointed. So I don’t feel bad about that. And if I’m wrong, then I will feel good about being wrong, but still not bad about disappointing on the hookup side of it…]

    But I had another point I was going to post about.

    Caring versus Sex.

    Because I had a mini aha moment on my way home from work. I have probably thought of this before, but my thoughts drifted in this direction again. And I am thinking that this experience with this man is bringing up something in me that needs to be healed (as it always does!!). And that is the divide that I have within myself between “the man who cares about me” and “the man who has sex with me.” For whatever reason, these two things have become mutually exclusive in my mind.

    Maybe it was the way they taught sex ed in my Middle School. Maybe it was subtle messages from my parents and culture that let me to feel that if a man cares for you he will “wait” for you – i.e., not have sex with you. Whereas if he doesn’t care for you at all, then he will definitely have sex with you. And there is of course practical validity to this idea, especially when you are 14 years old. But as adults, there is crossover here. When you are in love, and a person loves you, then the man who cares for you is ALSO going to be the man who has sex with you. I believe Catholics have struggled with this for centuries (I once briefly considered becoming Catholic myself). So there is an element of religious feeling here, and guilt. And it is so multi-layered.

    I envy so much people who can just simply have sex or not have sex. I can’t. I have to experience a complex web of decision making that takes multiple layers of considerations into account. I have to weigh pros and cons, and ultimately go with my gut, or hope that I do, and that what I think is “my gut” isn’t just a fear-based reaction, or an attempt to please someone else’s idea of what is supposed to happen.

    Jeez, I sound like a mess.

    This was supposed to be short.

    The point is, I get all discombobulated around sex. When I like someone, of course I want to be close to them physically. But as soon as the touch crosses the line into the realm of the sexual, I start to feel that the man doesn’t care for me – simply because he is trying to have sex with me. That’s all it takes. And even if he says that he DOES care about me (my ex-fiance did this all the time), I don’t believe it. I hear the words, and they are nice. But the sensation in my body is that I am feeling his action, and his action is sex and sex=”I don’t care about you.”

    I don’t have a solution here. I’m not even sure if I want help or advice. I just felt like sharing my experience, as I noticed the relationship between these two polar opposites.

    And the way I feel about it is sad. I feel sad because having this experience means I have never truly been able to feel someone caring about me during sex. Or if I did, I had to convince myself mentally to feel it, because my impulse is to feel that he doesn’t.

    That is all.

  70.  #70Liquid Light on October 15, 2015 at 4:43 pm

    Turquoise 65, Sounds like you can relate. Here’s to having both!!! Love it! Hoorah!!!

  71.  #71Tereana on October 15, 2015 at 4:54 pm

    Sirens!! I just did a really neat exercise for myself.

    [sidebar: I am so sorry for dominating the blog right now. After so long of silence, I know I am taking up a lot of space. And the rest of you are having your stories, and I am not totally caught up. I’ve seen a lot of new sirens on here – hi!! I am just dealing with a whole slew of interesting emotions right now, and writing them out here is helping me so much to process them. So thank you for being my audience!]

    So anyway, I was thinking about assumptions, and writing about how the negative assumptions I was making about UM were infiltrating my actions and behaviors and possibly causing me to make them into reality. I wrote out a list of my assumptions and felt how bad they made me feel, how insecure. And I decided I don’t want to make those assumptions. But it wasn’t going to work to just suddenly not have any assumptions. So I decided to write out a list of new assumptions.

    Here is my new list of assumptions:

    1. He likes me
    2. He wants to spend time with me
    3. He feels nervous about asking me out
    4. He is frightened because of how much he likes me
    5. He loves me
    6. He cares about me
    7. My feelings matter
    8. My preferences matter
    9. My health and well-being are important to him
    10. I am a special person in his eyes
    11. I am different from other women
    12. I surprise him.

    It feels soooo good to write this list!! Even if it doesn’t really “do” anything, I feel BETTER just thinking of all these things. And if the other list can cause me to make that into reality, then it stands to reason that building assumptions in a positive way can ALSO be turned into reality. this is what the LOA is all about, right? So basically, yeah. I like this. It feels good 🙂

  72.  #72Turquoise on October 15, 2015 at 5:06 pm

    Tereana, you should never feel bad about not having sec in a relationship…, unless maybe you are withholding sex as punishment to your significant other.
    How many dates have you been on with this guy? How long have you been involved? Do you only want sex in an established monogamous relationship? If you do, and are t at that point, please keep all those things in mind. You seem very very in your head right now, been there… Done that, and can relate. Why don’t you just try to let it go for now, take a step back and enjoy some other things? Take a hot shower, lose yourself in a movie or a book…. And remember Dominique’s as if tool…. Behave and believe as if you are the most important person to him. No need to stress or worry, it’s just AS IF, that wonderful feeling is true.

  73.  #73Turquoise on October 15, 2015 at 5:07 pm

    Feminine Woman, what’s going on in your love life sunshine? 🙂

  74.  #74Mandy on October 15, 2015 at 7:14 pm

    Starla and Indigo,

    Thank you, I am far more comfy these days leaning back than I ever was…its almost a defense mechanism with out being defensive or mechanical…

    Indigo, how was your bathtime, did it feel good and nurturing, was it soothing to your emotions? I like what you said…feel your temptation to freak, but don’t do it. Maintain your inner strength and peace….

    It seems this is one of the cracks in my psyche, one of my emotional triggers, the abandoned feeling that pops up, when maybe it’s not abandonment at all. There’s that little girl wishing her dad would come back from doing his Air Force job far from home. She needs to be babied. She needs a hot bath and some play time, doing creative things and things she likes and dancing and singing and art and theater and just doing what tickles her fancy.

    I’m just having a hard time figuring out what to do to have playtime, sometimes I’m so bored with everything I just can’t think of something, lol. Other times I’m too tired, but I can cat nap and get to the fitness room…

    I am a creative mind and creative minds are known for being able to come up with detailed scenarios in their minds about what could happen to them, and are therefore sometimes worry-worts. THAT’S ME, LOL.

    The other day Valentine just Imed me because he realized he could because he had wifi access, lol. I thought it was really cute. He is the CD who says, put your wallet away, I love and care for you, I want to take care of you, I feel a cosmic connection with you, you are precious and lovable and smart and strong, and loving as well…and you deserve affection and love…so I have to keep that in mind. A man doesn’t speak so you need to read between the lines, he usually just says what he means. To assume anything else is…dangerous…and I know I have a habit of subconsciously sabotaging my own happiness by finding one thing that might be something that goes wrong in a situation. My brain is quite the Labyrinth of psychological complications. I feel very complex and like quite a unique piece of work…

    I think I’ll lay down and then try walking on the Elliptical machine to see if my knee is doing better…and if that works or doesn’t work, bathtime again, lol. 🙂

  75.  #75Indigo on October 15, 2015 at 9:45 pm

    Tereana & Liquid Light,

    Thanks so much for your suggestions (LL although yours made me laugh, I don’t think I could bring myself to do it!)

    It is stalking type behaviour… there is no way he could not have got the message since I have been super clear. It is so awkward as it’s a reasonably small community up where I live – not very small but small enough that people talk, and we know a number of the same people. I’m not feeling like this guy is a danger yet, but I will monitor the situation.

  76.  #76Indigo on October 15, 2015 at 10:07 pm

    Mandy 73,

    Yes, my bathtime was incredibly soothing for me, it always is… especially with the vanilla and ginger bubble bath that I use. For me a long walk (listening to music that I enjoy) followed by a lovely full hot bath is a sure fire way to get me into a good, relaxed mood and calm me down.

    I am convinced that when you are feeling these abandonment fears, it is your younger self feeling afraid and looking for reassurance from YOU. It is a wonderful feeling when you finally get to the point where you feel like your older, adult self is in control – you are able to give yourself the reassurance that you need. I also have a highly imaginative, active mind that gets bored and restless easily, but I find it helpful to just let my mind have permission to be who it is, to make up its wild stories and run a mile a minute, as long as it doesn’t make me feel bad. To keep my mind happy, I love to read or write. There is another forum that I belong to (it is a fan forum) with a lot of wonderful creative people on there who are forever having very interesting discussions, and there is a lot of interesting stuff going on there at the moment, so I always have something to keep me engaged if that is what I want.

  77.  #77Zara on October 15, 2015 at 11:49 pm



    How To Date a Righteously Busy Man


    Men who are righteously “busy” are a challenge.

    You can’t fault them for not spending time with you because they’re saving the world.

    Or leading a symphony, or holding down two jobs, or taking care of their small children after wrestling custody of them from their drug-addict ex-wives. (I’ve dated a man in that situation – it’s not as far-fetched as you’d think.)

    So, here’s a letter about that, from Anna, who’s looking at this in a way that will not work for her. It’s almost a “doormat” way to look at things…because she’s got one of those righteously busy men, and he seems like such a prize.

    Remember, as you read this — it doesn’t matter HOW GREAT he is. If you want a fling with an amazing, difficult, busy man, then do it. But if you want lifelong love and family and attention, affection and great sex…look elsewhere…:

    “Rori, I read your articles all the time. Thanks for your insight! I am seeing a medical student 4th year. We have been friends for a while, so I know the demands of his schedule. We tried to take it past the friendship level (not sex), but the pressure was too heavy with school, so we backed up alot. How do I pace myself to maintain interest (for both of us). I know there is something there. He primarily calls me when he can talk (about 3 times a week). Don’t want to make him feel like I want to compete at this time, but show him I care. Anna.”

    And here’s my answer:

    Anna – Medical students and residents – all graduate students – do so much better married or with steady girlfriends. They feel supported, they can have regular sex, and they don’t have to do anything. Because they’re doctors, they are considered, as you instinctively consider him – to be excused from normal human issues.

    And then, when they get out of school – they’re doctors – and it’s different than it used to be. They are no longer gods who can command huge salaries and put out a shingle anywhere. There are more and more doctors and less and less jobs, and the money isn’t that good, and the pressure is humongous…

    Used to be (and know this from the women I went to college with) – that a man would lean on his girlfriend through college and medical school (or law school, or business school…) and then graduate and get his certifications and licenses and start making huge money and attract women from everywhere and then DUMP his same girlfriend who stood by him her whole college life.

    Now – it’s not the same. Moving out into the work world is harder these days, and the stress of school hangs on. But, still, just as in the old days, a man who makes a successful transition from school to work OFTEN starts out in a new direction personally, too.

    Now he wants to see the world. Now he wants every woman who comes onto him. Now he thinks he’s hot stuff.

    Your man might not be like this. A man you meet and date in college might not be like this. He may be a true-blue kind of man (Though with this Tiger Woods phenomenon, you wonder if it’s even possible to spot a true-blue man – I mean, who looked more true-blue from “here” than Tiger?)

    And yet – the possibility exists that when circumstances CHANGE – everything changes. This is why it’s absolutely CRUCIAL to Circular Date. You should NEVER tie yourself down to one man EXCEPT for your own experience.

    If you’re dating a really cool guy, and you’re learning a lot from the relationship, and you want to experiment with what a steady “boyfriend” feels like so you can be better prepared for marriage – then try it. But don’t expect it to last – in fact, I’d be very careful about that.

    I would never, ever abandon Circular Dating – no matter how married you are!!! Without making contact, even momentarily, with men everywhere, you put yourself in a box. Your vibration gets smaller and smaller and you forget there’s a big world out there.

    You shop at the same market, walk the same streets, exercise at the same place…and everything seems doomed when a relationship doesn’t go as far as you’d like.

    Hoping that a relationship will work out forever is NOT a good reason to shut down your options.

    So – to answer your question – there IS no way to “pace” this. You DATE him. That’s ALL. You date him, and you date other men, and…may the best man win!!!

    Now – for the other part of your letter – Anna. Him calling you a few times a week is not ANY kind of “relationship.” It’s strictly a friendship. It may be a worthwhile friendship – and it may develop into something else later, you never know, but for now – it’s not more than friendship.

    That means you are not really even “dating” him right now. So – please – Circular Date, let him stay in touch with you, and have as much fun as you possibly can without thinking of him for a moment.

    If you’re hung up on him…that’s even more of a clue that you need to focus more on YOU, and on what YOU love, what you like, and that you need to Circular Date with tons of men so you can practice the Tools, lift your spirits, your self-esteem and your “vibe,” and have the relationship you want.

    Love, Rori


  78.  #78Indigo on October 16, 2015 at 12:11 am


    I love Dominique’s As If tool! I have been using it to great effect these days. To me, it goes hand-in-hand with taking a man at face value (I really think men are a lot more simple than we give them credit for), and also doing and going along with the scenario which feels better and easier for you. This may be a simplistic way of looking at it, but it’s working for me. When I feel confused/anxious, I simply ask myself what would make my life better and easier and I do that. This includes in my thoughts. You may as well go with the best-feeling thoughts, if you have a choice.

  79.  #79Victoria on October 16, 2015 at 12:57 am

    @ Indigo 60
    I have had similar experience with someone who worked with someone I know and then I met him at the gym and we chatted and he asked for my number and I gave it to him because he seemed kind of harmless being from a cirle of people I know. Then, even though I was not very impressed (except by his physique) I agreed to have coffee with him once. It was a very lame date, and even though he works out heavily and it shows, it was very hard to have any sort of conversation with him. Next time he asked me out, I told him I am very busy and not interested in dating him. Then, he started calling all the time, texting me, writing me that I have mislead him that I like him and now he is very hurt. I totally ignored all his calls and texts, and then he gave up. Then, 2-3 months, he reappeared. I totally ignored him, he reappeared again a few months later. The worst part was when he came to my office unannounced, because he was in the neighborhoos and wanted to say hi. I had to ask the guards to never let him in again. I also blocked his number. I have not heard from him for several months now, and someone who knows him told me he has a baby with some woman now. Thank G*d.
    The short version is, I think if you ignore him long enough, he will eventually get the message.

  80.  #80Indigo on October 16, 2015 at 1:17 am

    Hi Victoria,

    Oh my goodness, very similar experience! I agreed to go out with this guy once, because he was not bad looking, seemed like he might be interesting and was certainly very keen. I did not enjoy the date, he spent the whole date trying to brag about his achievements which did not impress me, instead of talking to me, he smoked and I just overall got a very strong “no” vibe. It has been a year now, and much like your guy he disappears for a month or two only to resurface with a new attempt at contact. I have decided to do what you did, no response just block and ignore. Uuuuurrrrgggh, how do guys think this is attractive.

  81.  #81Victoria on October 16, 2015 at 1:53 am

    In such circumstances I seek to see what I can learn from this experience.
    My first lesson was to realize that when someone is not interested they are not interested, fullstop. I have a tendency to try to impress people whereas I should also back down once someone shows me they are not to keen.
    On a different note, my experience with him is that an attractive body goes only as far as one date, and then, if there is no match on the personality level, even the initial attraction evaporates. I need to remind this to myseld when I start getting insecure about whether I am slim enough or young enough.
    By the way, on my only date with him, the conversation was just not happening, he had nothing to say. I saw I was talking to fill up silence, and I hate that. I was wearing a beautiful dress, and he said, wow, you are all dressed up for me, and I came in my work clothes. May be he meant that as a compliment, but I took it as an insult… he was not only not putting any effort, he was also rubbing it in my face. Little did I know that he would turn into a stalker!

  82.  #82Indigo on October 16, 2015 at 2:11 am


    That is so true. The moment someone says they are not interested I back down and turn my attention elsewhere, because I have seen how unattractive it is when someone tries to force their point. And I absolutely agree with you about physical attractiveness only going so far – I have experienced this myself. A very attractive man becomes blah to me if he has a dull personality. And I have had guys say the same thing to me – they can be initially captivated by a girl’s hotness, but if she does not possess the qualities they are looking for or is not interesting to them, they lose attraction super fast. As you say, this is reassuring when we are tempted to find fault with the way we look. I really believe men are drawn to who you are on a deeper level, despite them being visual creatures.

    I cannot believe this man turned up at your work! I had to laugh a bit at your story because you have a humorous way of telling it. I have briefly been involved with a guy who turned into a stalker-type in the past and he showed up at my house once when I tried to break it off with him, it was very scary.

  83.  #83Tereana on October 16, 2015 at 2:43 am

    Turquoise – just to be clear ( I hope) I wasn’t talking about feeling bad having sex with this man. In fact, the reason I dint feel bad is that I didn’t have sex with him (I just met him 2 weeks ago. Two weeks? Really, that’s it? It feels longer). But in General, when I am with guys, I’ve just noticed that sex tends to make me feel as if they don’t care about me, even if they do.

    That’s all.

    A topic for my therapist…

    And about your experience with knight – that sounds great! You stated your piece, and he came toward you. Sounds wonderful! : )

  84.  #84Victoria on October 16, 2015 at 3:10 am

    I also think it was a funny story… The thing is, I know I was not completely innocent at the beginning, so it is not like he was this maniac who pursued me out of nowhere. Besides the fact that I am a natural flirt, I had turned my charm on to the max at the gym. This is what Rori encourages us to do always, doesn’t she?
    And, the the thing is, in my whole long life it has back-fired only once, so, not such a big deal.
    How are you otherwise?

  85.  #85Victoria on October 16, 2015 at 3:19 am

    From what you have told here, it seems to me that he was expecting to get s*x, with you inviting him to your place and being in his bed, and making out. I know you told him he will have to sleep on the couch etc., but women who fully intend to have the man over for s*x say absolutely the same thing, it is part of the seduction game.
    Men get very frustrated when they get this type of mixed sygnals. He probably thinks you were a tease, and playing with him, getting him all horny only to reject him.
    I am not saying you did anything wrong, but I just want to show you a different angle, where most probably he was just very uncomfortable and disappointed, and this is as far as it goes for him.

  86.  #86Tereana on October 16, 2015 at 3:28 am

    I guess, if I’m really honest, part of me feels guilty for NOT sleeping with him. Weird that I can feel both. Because he was at my house, and he bought me a drink, so it was like I was “supposed” to sleep with him.

    I have to keep reminding myself that sex is “expensive” for me. If I had done it, I would likely feel worse right now. At least I would feel drained, energetically. I feel like I had “given” to him.

    I am worried about his judgment of me. What about my judgment of him? Didn’t he lie to me? Didn’t he fail to mention a change of plans that affected our meeting? I did things, too. I complicated the matter, at one point. But he was not up front and communicative with me, and that’s the sensation I’m left with. Maybe, subconsciously, (or consciously), I’ve given him reasons to not like me. But I think maybe because I’ve been seeing him for the real person he is. And I want him to be better. I want him to be perfect in every way. And my disappointment lies in the fact that he is simply not.

    He’s not better. He’s not perfect. He’s maybe not even perfect for me. And I might not be perfect for him.

    It’s best not to force it.

    I can’t force it

    There is nothing to force.

    But encountering him…I felt like I appreciated V even more. Because at least I knew (know) that V loved me. I knlw that he cared (cares) about me. And even though he is far away and not perfect, he took the time to get to know me. And I know that marriage is something he wants. Kids he wants. My scary parts don’t scare him away completely. And I loved (love) him too…

  87.  #87Tereana on October 16, 2015 at 3:39 am

    Victoria – yeah. I get that. I’m feeling that. But he lives out of town. I invited him to stay for practical reasons. It took massive amounts of willpower for me NOT to sleep with him.

    And the reasons I didn’t are because of so many times in the past, where I got myself into a place like this, I went further than I felt comfortable going, and in the end, I felt like I lost out – I didn’t get the man’s respect, not did I have my dignity.

    What’s the alternative here? That I sleep with him simply so that I don’t get labeled “a tease” and then feel bad about myself for the experience?

    I am a tease, and I love teasing men. Because I love the fact that they want me, but I feel happier and safer just out of reach. And if this makes me a “tease,” fine. I need that safety zone first. For now.

    Maybe I should not have invited him to stay.

    But like I said, it was practical. For me, at least

  88.  #88Victoria on October 16, 2015 at 4:21 am

    Oh well, it is all a learning experience… I guess this means that you should have not invited him to stay over, no matter the practicality.
    I remember I also enjoyed being a tease (in my 20s). I have kind of learnt over the years that s*x is actually not such a big deal, I don’t need to be in a relationship in order to enjoy it, but I have a major problem if the man is “relationship material” but he wants only s*x. If I see he has all the qualities I desire in a partner, I know now, based on experience, and I am better off not leading with s*x but rather allowing the relationship to build itself first.

  89.  #89Turquoise on October 16, 2015 at 7:22 am

    Hmmm….. This makes me simmer with anger. So just because other women have invited a man to stay and sleep on the couch and ended up sleeping with them, we owe them sex? I call crap on that one. That’s like saying because some other guy bought us expensive jewelry, it’s expected that all men do. That’s the problem with assumptions!!

    I just feel bad you feel the need to explain why you haven’t slept with a guy you’ve known 2 weeks. How about because you have self worth and want to feel a deep emotional connection with before exposing yourself to all the possibilities of sex. Let’s not forget disease, pregnancy, pain… How can you trust a person you barely know to be kind, gentle… Even honest? Sex is the cherry on top of dessert. Not the appetizer! At least for me, but I’m 41.

  90.  #90Femininewoman on October 16, 2015 at 7:26 am

    Hi Turquoise thanks for asking. I had kinda slowed that down this year because of all the pain. I have since done hip surgery in June and have now been mending nicely so I have just recently started giving someone a chance who has been hanging around in my orbit for a long time.

    I will try to give more of an update over the weekend

  91.  #91Tereana on October 16, 2015 at 7:51 am

    Victoria – that is exactly how I feel.

    And I’ve learned a lot over the years, too.

    I guess I was only partly aware that I was covertly suggesting sex by inviting him over. I knew it, and yet I didn’t want to know it. I wanted to get to know him over time. But did I? I guess the crux of the issue here is – I was sending mixed signals, because I felt/feel mixed about it myself. I felt and feel hugely attracted. But I also know that I want more than that.

    I guess I hoped that if I stuck to my guns and actually let him sleep on the couch that that would be a clear enough signal. I was wrong about that, and he’s not the only one who feels left hanging, sexually. I want more, too.

  92.  #92Lilybelly on October 16, 2015 at 9:42 am

    This is my opinion and just some random thoughts about the whole sex thing:

    My body was a precious gift that I chose to share with another as I felt was right. Many times, I was wrong in that I didn’t allow my feelings about the situation to be clear and made some mistakes about what I WAS feeling along the way. Add in the oxytocin after and down the drain I would go. As I got older, I still did what I wanted but sex wasn’t on the table until I was clear about my feelings regarding giving up my body and “him” as a person. As it turned out, J and I didn’t have sex until we had been dating for almost four months. I had, of course, been through a heartbreak with T just as I met J and wasn’t clear on anything except what I needed to do to focus on myself, so taking sex completely off the table was just one more thing I felt safe doing for myself. The groovy thing about it was that J honored that and didn’t ever push me for more than I was willing to give.

    That felt really good to me and now that I think about it, reminds me of how safe I felt with him overall.

    This feels good for me to think/talk and feel about. After the break through this week with J, this is another reminder of why I fell in love with him.

  93.  #93Starla on October 16, 2015 at 10:06 am

    Lilybelly I want to hear about the break through 🙂

  94.  #94Lilybelly on October 16, 2015 at 10:42 am

    I will share, Starla. Likely tomorrow when I have some free time to get my thoughts together. I am still processing at the moment and feeling my way through.

    I do know that I lost myself along the way, that I forgot WHO I am and was so busy beating the drum of what happened, that I couldn’t or wouldn’t look at all the things that J WAS and has been doing to assist in my healing…in our healing and by doing so, caused backward movement.



  95.  #95Femininewoman on October 16, 2015 at 10:47 am

    mmmmm Lilybelly

    Tereana I am a tease too, I was in my earlier years and still am now. I like that about myself. I like that I can go that far and still honor my boundaries. Mind you I wouldn’t do it with any or every man who I interact with just the kind that I feel safe around. I believe a woman has all the rights to call the shots around sex and I do believe that men believe that too.

  96.  #96Lilybelly on October 16, 2015 at 11:07 am


    Is mmmmmmm… a good thing or ?

    I’m interested in your thoughts. Xoxo

  97.  #97Femininewoman on October 16, 2015 at 11:25 am

    Lilybelly – beating the drum of what happened, that I couldn’t or wouldn’t look at all the things that J WAS and has been doing

    This statement struck a cord with me. How easy we forget

  98.  #98Lilybelly on October 16, 2015 at 11:42 am

    This was a tough realization for me, FW, but an important one.

    I was so focused on the pain, of how I ached and all the feelings people who are betrayed go through. The difference was that I never stopped feeling like that and the distance I created was monumental. He was standing right in front of me with his atms open but mine were closed. Every part of my being was closed off. And, that’s part of how I lost me.

    Lots of work to do yet but I feel hope. His anger has left, he feels better as a result of our conversation earlier this week. I feel much better putting all this attention on myself also.

  99.  #99Indigo on October 16, 2015 at 11:59 am

    Azure Blu 56,

    I wanted to share with you that I took your suggestion here. I took Bush Boy’s comment that I had been quiet (along with just a gut feeling that I had) as a sign that he would like it if I reached out. So I tried it and it was very well received 🙂 We had a lovely conversation via text and he’s invited me to visit with him next week when he is stationed somewhere on the coast which is not far from me. What you said Azure Blu got me to thinking that sometimes men like us to stroke their egos a bit. It raises their masculine vibe. He told me during our conversation that he was doing a cycle race and asked if I would watch out for him. I told him that of course I would and he was very happy about that 🙂

  100.  #100Femininewoman on October 16, 2015 at 1:00 pm

    Wow. Just wow. It is so true that what you focus on grows.

  101.  #101Femininewoman on October 16, 2015 at 1:50 pm

    Also Dominique always talks about appreciating what they are doing right. When you have decided to stay in a relationship it seems so counterintuitive yet we tend to focus on what doesn’t make things better and still stay. It is also about taking full responsibility about what we create in our lives no matter what the man is doing.

  102.  #102Indigo on October 16, 2015 at 2:29 pm

    Victoria 83,

    Aside from the odd hassle of being a new homeowner, I am very well indeed thank you 🙂 How about you?

    This whole conversation of having or not having sex with a man and how to handle these situations is particularly interesting for me in view of the fact that Bush Boy has invited me to stay next week. I have not yet decided what I am going to do. I am very attracted to him and of course would love to sleep with him, and I do not instinctively get the feeling that he is a man who is only after sex. On the contrary, he seems very balanced and cautious and thoughtful, but at the same time I want to do what is right and best for me and I don’t want to put myself in a position where my emotions get out of control. Because as you said, I see relationship potential here. I see husband potential here. So, we’ll see. I’m sure the answer will come to me.

  103.  #103Lilybelly on October 16, 2015 at 4:34 pm

    I am working hard, FW.

    Super hard on me.
    Yay me!!

    The groovy thing too, is that I am not beating myself up, at all. This feels good to realize.

  104.  #104Lilybelly on October 16, 2015 at 4:46 pm

    I feel softer and more gentle with myself and it is flowing out and towards people I share my day with as well. I really do have to focus right now on my interactions, especially at work on remaining that way, even though i have to spend so much time in boy energy. I feel certain it will become more natural, the more I practice.

    Yesterday, I was out in production speaking with two Supervisors about an issue and I said.. “I feel confused about this problem but I feel certain you guys can help me understand what happened to this job for my customer.” They both were tripping over themselves to tell me what went wrong and how they were going to ensure the solution I needed would happen. And they did. I received multiple email updates and two visits to my office. I sort of gushed, in a professional way, telling them i felt so appreciative of their efforts to solve the problem.

    These are guys I have worked with for over 11 years and they totally helped out and in a different way than before.

    Go me! Lol

  105.  #105BeLoved on October 16, 2015 at 4:58 pm

    So. Stuff was STILL getting moved around, even after the 2nd conversation about it. It reminded me so much of RoomieJ that I decided to talk to TG about it last night. Before I even got a chance, I got a text from TG that the roomie is moving out by the end of the month. Something came up with her daughter and she and her daughter are going to move in together.

    *sigh*….I felt so relieved. What felt even better, was talking with TG later, and telling him about what was going on, of course he totally got it and didn’t seem to believe at all at all that it had anything to do with her leaving. I had felt a little scared of saying anything to him, because I felt scared he would blame her leaving on me and it felt so good to just sit and chat with him and share our concerns about house stuff.

  106.  #106Emerson on October 16, 2015 at 9:05 pm

    Lillybelly #40
    Hi! I really enjoyed reading your list!
    Yay new jeans! Crochet! All sounds lovely…taking care of you.
    Thank you for the inspiration. 🙂

  107.  #107Emerson on October 16, 2015 at 9:12 pm

    As I clicked on the link that Rori posted above, I found some interesting articles related to exercise and depression, well being etc….

    Really it’s so true for me, I feel so much better when I exercise, even if it’s a little bit…

    I feel refreshed running outside with my music and looking at all the pretty houses where I live…

    It feels inspiring and it feels nostalgic…but it also feels like I clear my head, and once in a while I am able to
    assemble one more piece of my life’s puzzle and feel reconciled with something that is painful or feels uncomfortable…

    I’ve found ways to comfort myself and things that feel personal and meaningful to me…
    activities that feel good and therapeutic…

  108.  #108Mandy on October 17, 2015 at 6:41 am

    Yeah…I still feel confused. No clue what’s going on. Just coming to the sad assumption I did something to mess it up is all I can see sometimes. Sometimes I wonder if I’ll ever see a friend again and it seems as real as the air around me. It also feels according to the Siren rules nothing a guy does is ever good enough to prove his interest, and it gets me way down sometimes. Kind of makes me want to separate myself from everything for awhile and hide.

  109.  #109Lilybelly on October 17, 2015 at 6:55 am

    Hi Emerson,

    I’m so happy you enjoyed my lusr. It feels so hard sometimes to put so much focus on doing things for me, but after I do, it feels so good!

    Today is hair day and I’m super excited! I am going a bit blonder and adfing some maroon to the roots only, just at tge crown. Its part of my plan to get my ” sassy” back.

  110.  #110Lilybelly on October 17, 2015 at 6:55 am

    Dang kindle keyboard. Lol

  111.  #111Lilybelly on October 17, 2015 at 6:56 am

    Sorry about the typos. Geeeezzz.

  112.  #112Indigo on October 17, 2015 at 8:34 am

    Mandy 107,

    I feel that way too sometimes and it was really getting me down, so I decided to take a bit of a step back from everyone’s – everyone – advice and tune into my own instincts. This really, really feels good if I may say – people can give you all sorts of opinions and often they can be conflicting. Your own voice can speak to you in a way that can be crystal clear.

  113.  #113Azure Blu on October 17, 2015 at 9:43 am

    Indigo #101

    I think you have a great beginning for bringing up Bush man’s thoughts on S**xual interaction between you…

    “I am very attracted to you and would love to sleep with You.
    You seem very balanced and cautious and thoughtful, but at the same time I want to do what is right and best for me and If we have s*x I get more emotionally stimulated and I’d like to get to know you better and not cloud the issue by having s*x too soon… What are your thoughts Bushman?”

  114.  #114Azure Blu on October 17, 2015 at 9:44 am

    so glad to hear your experiment of reaching out to Bushman was received by him with enthusiasm.
    As you say… he is a thoughtful and balanced man
    and would certainly need to know you are feeling attraction also!

  115.  #115Azure Blu on October 17, 2015 at 9:50 am

    Lillybell #103
    Ohhh… WoW!!
    What a Siren you are…
    This is so cool to read how our soft, warm response
    inspires others to be their best!!!
    Rori’s tools are MAGIC!!!

  116.  #116Azure Blu on October 17, 2015 at 9:53 am

    Love this:
    “When YOU Have DECIDED to stay in a relationship it seems so counter intuitive
    yet we tend to focus on what doesn’t make things better and STILL STAY.”

    Thank you for the gentle reminder…
    It is MY choice to stay in these relationships!!!
    Now based on that, How can I warmly, and positively impact our interactions!!!

  117.  #117Azure Blu on October 17, 2015 at 9:56 am

    Feminine Woman #89
    Thank you for sharing some of you life
    with us…
    soo good to hear you are healing and have begun to cd with someone…
    Look forward to updates!! :-))

  118.  #118Azure Blu on October 17, 2015 at 9:58 am

    Lillybell #108
    Yeah!!! Bring that Sassy back!!!

  119.  #119Lilybelly on October 17, 2015 at 10:16 am

    Awwww, thank you, Azure. It feels good to check in with myself when I am having these interactions at work. I had one yesterday too when I got called to the Owners office. There are some serious behavior issues with a Manager and was asked about some recent interactions I encountered with this man. They were inappropriate, way out of line and unprofessional. I leaned back in my chair and shared what happened and said how I felt, using feeling messages. I felt like I was in the Principals office but it had to be brought up. I felt such relief. And hope for a happier work place.

    I was even asked what I felt would happen to this persons folks if he wasnt allowed to remain employed. I shared that the company would see a group of people coming together to work towards the goals set forth by the Management group and we would all be more cohesive and he would likely not see good employees looking for work elsewhere if this situation was dealt with.

    It felt amazing to feel respected enough to be asked to share how I felt.

  120.  #120Azure Blu on October 17, 2015 at 10:30 am

    A little update on all my cding…
    3 men in my rotation…
    RM – i’ve been seeing for over 2 months now…
    We took a break after his little temper tantrum
    of me not wanting to be exclusive yet and not wanting s*x yet…
    He’s apologized… explained he had had too much to drink and has cut way back. He wanted to analyze his relationship with alcohol!! Which I thought WAS very insightful and mature!!!
    So we are having a date tomorrow to visit a cider mill… after several weeks of not seeing each other…
    I am looking forward to it..
    I have also realized that he has some feminine characteristics that I am not turned on by
    But other things are quite masculine
    Like future thinking about us
    Planning dates and being very responsive to me and what I like and want
    out of my comfort zone…

    I have a new cd who I am attracted to. We had a date
    this Wed.
    He asked me out again… we’ve spoken on the phone a few times but he hasn’t set the date yet…
    He seems to be intimidated by me being physically fit… He’s a tennis player (so why?)…
    He seemed fine to me…
    I think I’ve been too much in my head in our phone conversations… too masculine…
    I need to concentrate on being much more feminine with him!!

    I’ve been working lots and lots of hours for the past 3 weeks and as many of you have pointed out…
    It *IS* difficult to come down off the masculine vibe
    and relax… and let my heart do the interaction!!!

    Spirit has been being sooooo Attentive after asking me about exclusivity…
    calling and texting almost everyday… Asking me out on dates ahead of time…
    I have reciprocated and been warm and appreciative…

    He has gotten a new job… and is feeling soo much better about himself…
    We had a date last night… one of the guys in my group of friends had a birthday get together and we went
    I was tired, was thinking about ALLLL the things I didn’t like that Spirit was “supposedly” doing last night… I said something to my girlfriend at the table and she asked me “Did you let him know what you wanted?”
    Me: “No”
    Her: “Did he ask you what you wanted?”
    Me: “Yes”
    Her:”Azure, don’t you dare get mad at him about this!!! This is not his problem!!!”

    WoW!!! She showed me in a few words that I was
    setting up the whole thing to get mad at him!!
    When he had tried to avoid me getting upset!!!
    It was eye opening to see WHAT I WAS TRYING TO DO!!!

    On our drive I was able to bring up a topic that I had wanted to have for a few weeks…
    I said: “You are the love of my life… I would love to spend the rest of my life with you but
    We are so different in our core beliefs…” What do you think Spirit.”
    Him: “ohhh… Azure… I wish that you would just humble yourself, admit your sins and accept my religion!”
    Me: “Spirit, I was raised like that, I can’t spend the rest of my life with someone who believes like that.”
    I accept who you are… but it feels like you want ME to change.”
    Him: “It’s NOT me… it’s the Bible.”

    We also discussed the fact I haven’t been to his house yet…. (dating a year)– used his daughter as an excuse again…

    He said he couldn’t talk about this stuff anymore…
    and amazing enough (VERY unlike me)
    I realized I was satisfied with the amount of conversation we were able to sustain in a respectful loving dialoge and I said.
    “OK” and we proceeded with the evening in a loving way!!!

  121.  #121Indigo on October 17, 2015 at 11:09 am

    Azure Blu,

    Thank you so much for your thoughts and suggestions 🙂 It is certainly helpful for me to think and feel through this beforehand.

    I have great respect for the way you are able to remain so present and aware with your CD’s and with Spirit. For what it is worth, I have come to the conclusion that it is never the answer to fight how a man is or the way he does things. I think sometimes a man comes into our life to teach us that. It is tempting sometimes though.

    Bush Boy I think is the only guy I have ever dated where I have wanted things to go somewhere with him, but I have not pushed at all. He is the only man I have ever really liked where I have accepted him and his pace 100%. Every other guy I have like I have tried to push or niggle or coax in small ways, I haven’t had the confidence to just let things be what they are. But with Bush Boy I have. I can’t say why that is, it just is. And I must say, it feels good. There is much more to this, but I don’t want to be a blog hog and write it all out, but all I will say is that it feels good to not worry, to trust a guy’s way and his timing.

    I suppose what I am saying to is Spirit WILL reveal the sort of man he is, and whether he is the right man for you, over time.

  122.  #122Turquoise on October 17, 2015 at 2:58 pm

    Oh sirens I feel totally deflated. Knight lost his job yesterday and he’s shutting down. I talked to him yesterday snd he kept saying he just didn’t know what to say. He feels do betrayed, there almost 10 years and they restructured and cut 4 people. He said they are hoping to find a place for him and will call Monday, but he’s really distraught. He texted me late last night to say he feels broken. I’m being encouraging and supportive, but we were supposed to see each other today and he said he doesn’t want to go anywhere, would be a total buzz kill. I offered to go there, really want to give him a hug, and just got no response.
    He’s a very prideful man, works extremely hard and has repeatedly said he’s the caretaker in a relationship, the provider. He shared that if we ended up together he would take care of me and my girls. I don’t need a man to take care of me, but sure was nice to hear. I know he needs space, and has a lot on his mind obviously, but I wish he’d let me be there for him. I have zero experience with a man losing their job. He physically felt sick yesterday, his voice cracked…. The words he used, just could feel how upset he is. Any advice ladies?
    Tomorrow will be 6 years since my sister died of cancer. I already was feeling sad.

  123.  #123Turquoise on October 17, 2015 at 5:20 pm

    I’m using my Saturday night to clean my room…. Seriously clothes everywhere, kids stuff, and a thick layer of dust. I’ve got music on, my What’s His Name? candle burning and I’m turning this back into my solace… My escape, not the dump sure when in cleaning in a hurry. My second walk in closet is overflowing…. Need to clear that out to make space for a man! I do want a husband…. Time to start acting like it and preparing for that possibility!

  124.  #124Femininewoman on October 17, 2015 at 6:17 pm

    Turquoise let’s see if this will post. This is the second time I am trying to post my update and lost it. Computer acting up. Will try again tomorrow

  125.  #125Turquoise on October 17, 2015 at 6:46 pm

    I see you FW

  126.  #126Tereana on October 17, 2015 at 7:43 pm

    FW 94 – I like that 🙂

  127.  #127Tereana on October 17, 2015 at 8:00 pm

    And about what FW said, I think she is right. Men do know that women have the right to refuse sex, even when he is turned on. Good men.

    In this case, I believe he knew that. He didn’t seem confused, nor did he complain. And as randy as he got, he never really “pushed” me for it. And I will say that I did appreciate that.

    Part of me (the feminist part) bristles at the idea that if we do x,y,&z we are “leading a man on.” That means we essentially have to be to ones to take responsibility for his actions and his choices. To say that, ‘well, I did invite him to my house, so that means I was inviting sex,’ smells a lot to me like a kind of sl*t-shaming, where a woman is either a sl*t or a tease. And neither of course is a good option. How about: she either decides to have sex or she doesn’t. The man is ready to go, and he probably would be regardless. So really, the choice is hers. And no matter which it is, it is HER choice, and its within her power and her right to choose that, regardless of the situation. And she can even change her mind if she wants to.

    Men do it all the time. This is how men behave and react. They don’t have guilt complexes about it or tell stories about how it was “their fault.”

    I really think that it’s possible to shift this mindset about sex by first rewriting the stories we tell ourselves. Which is what I’m planning to do. This is my life and my body, and I don’t “have” to do anything just because some people suggest that it’s “what people do.” I have to be true to myself.

    And it is what I said: I feel more powerful this way.

  128.  #128Indigo on October 17, 2015 at 11:54 pm


    I probably don’t have to tell you this, but a man’s work/job is his mission, his purpose, in many cases his raison d’etre (Dominique has several articles about this). Just to give you an idea so you don’t underestimate the importance of this to him (which I am sure you are not). Seeing as how it is so fresh, I would not expect him to be available much for love and romance for the moment. It sucks I know, but it is what it is… I often find it helpful to remind myself that when work or life intervenes, that this is most likely what a real life with this person would be like. If he were my husband I would have to weather this storm with him. I have also observed that men seem not to like us being there for them in the way that we would want for ourselves if something bad happened to us. They like to man-cave and deal with it alone. Men have been socialised this way, and I think it would take a lot of safety and knowing a woman for a long time before he would share any of what he’s feeling with her. I’m sure all of us have stories of when a man is sick or goes through something difficult, how he withdraws and wants to be alone. It’s not personal. I think they feel they don’t want to burden us with it, and also that they just feel more comfortable and control when they deal with it in their own way. All you can do is give him space, and be there for him when he emerges.

    Love to you

  129.  #129Lilybelly on October 18, 2015 at 5:13 am


    I tried to respond to you last night but had issues.

    I was saying exactly what Indigo has said above. His very being has been affected by the loss of his way to provide. The facr that he mentioned being a provider to you, so early on, is a peek into how important this is to him.

    Be still, offer support when he reaches out and stay busy.

    Big hugs.

  130.  #130Azure Blu on October 18, 2015 at 6:00 am

    Ahhh lovely warm, sunshiny Siren!!!
    Ohhh… my
    to be going thru this with him so early in your dating must feel scary…
    I agree with Indigo and Lillybell…
    You are doing fantastic…
    You listened to him… gave him verbal support..
    offered to come by…
    and now he needs space…
    As a woman, I know how devastating loosing a job is…
    especially after 10 years…
    hope they find another place for him within the company….

    I love what you are doing for YOU!!!
    Good reminder… we need to MAKE ROOM for a
    man in our lives!!!
    Physically make room…
    purge, throw out things that are taking up space where a man can be…
    clean and take excellent care of US…
    so when they DO come around
    we have a routine of self care that we stick to
    As Rori teaches… this is very feminine!!!

  131.  #131Azure Blu on October 18, 2015 at 6:53 am

    the separation from Spirit has begun,,,,
    yesterday we would have met at a bar to watch the
    BIG game (here at the BIG house) between the two biggest state rivals…
    no invitation from either of us… no texts or phone calls during or after the GREAT game – the score was so close… and the underdog won!!
    I can’t let myself get any closer to him…
    I imagine he is realizing the same thing…

    I let myself enjoy the last couple of months of him opening his heart to me and me being able to open my heart and receive!!!!
    He had been making a BIG effort to listen to what I wanted from the relationship… relaxing
    and each of us including each other in our day to day lives…
    BUT…. after our talk on Sat. I heard that he DOES expect me to convert to his “extreme born again” religion…
    That is what I had feared… but he had never really
    shared… for fear of loosing me.

    I am soooo sad… :-((

    But I have to do this…
    I want my good life to continue
    Spirit and his religious fervor and extreme politics
    doesn’t fit in there for me…
    He is a wonderful man… perfect just the way he is!!!
    But just not for me…. :-((

    I was missing him when we hadn’t seen each other this week (4 days)
    Sundays we had started spending the day together…
    walks in the parks… grocery shopping and cooking together… cuddling and s*x…

    The 2 other men I am seeing have so much more potential for being my forever man…
    it is sooo nice to be able to have a political or religious conversation and NOT be judged for my thoughts!!!

    Wish me luck, oh Sirens…
    Wish me strength and courage!!!

    I do soooo love me! That’s why I talked to Spirit about this NOW… it would have only gotten more difficult!!

  132.  #132Linda on October 18, 2015 at 8:13 am

    Rori thanks you sooo much for this post. I have felt so overwhelmed for actually quite some time when it comes to the subject of fixing things in my life so I can “have the relationship and life that I want” . I have thunk and adjusted and tweaked until I am all thunk, adjusted and tweaked out.

    Years ago my dad said to me “follow your heart and not your head”…but I was taught and that following ones heart and feelings is unwise, risky and will lead you to instability and ruin. The phrase “love is a decision not a feeling” is one of those phrases I understand the spirit of its meaning but if taken literally sterilizes. I have spent the better part of my life making choices wisely and then stuffing my feelings, making them fit into them them on the backside.

    I have become so weary of trying to fix and tweak my life. Its like I have been trying to crack open a safe that I don’t have the combination to. Turning the dial right and left .. trying again again and the door just will not open.

    Honestly I have really just shut down trying to figure anything out and like you suggested here have pulled the covers up to my chin and been lying here letting go and not doing anything.

    What you said here encourages me and is liberating…..
    My life It’s not something to “solve.”
    It’s something to feel through.
    Instead of “going for it” – look at it.
    Take it in and Feel it .

    Now this is flies in the face of everything I had my life organized around. But I have asked myself … why are feelings scary. Really they are not. They are directional and freeing! I realize that have lived with major portions of my life with a separated head and heart .

    So as you suggested I am going to take all this and make myself available all this and let my feeling/body and brain work as a team. I am going to take the scary adjective away and let my impulses speak out too…

    There are so many layer to my feelings. I get it! I get the message that the picture you chose to accompany this post’s message too.

    xoxo !

  133.  #133Emerson on October 18, 2015 at 8:28 am

    119 azure blue
    One thing that jumped out at me is the fact that you have never been to his house ?? After a year?
    Much credit for your bravery in bringing up difficult topics when I know you really like him a lot…..
    Those are big differences….
    But aside from that all that I could think about was that he hasn’t brought you to his house….
    I find that odd and suspicious …..

  134.  #134Azure Blu on October 18, 2015 at 8:39 am

    Thank you for your comments…
    Yes!!! That is one BIG reason I continued seriously cding!!
    Me practicing my Siren skills
    Waiting for ME to be able to let go of Spirit
    with less drama…
    BUT a couple of months ago…
    all of a sudden he started acting like a boyfriend…
    then asking for exclusivity… which I didn’t give him…
    BECAUSE I havn’t been to his house or been introduced to his family…
    AND because of our core differences

    And as we got closer and my heart got more engaged…
    I realized I MUST ask these questions
    and discover what his feelings are
    Now I know
    and I MUST STOP the madness…

    This is VERY good for ME…
    BUT I KNOW how hard it will be
    Cause I do have a chemical dependancey
    on Spirit…
    he is deeply a part of my “OLD COMFORT ZONE”
    Which I WANT to let go of!!!
    Love you AZURE!!
    I WILL take Excellent care of YOU!!

  135.  #135T-Girl on October 18, 2015 at 8:44 am

    Indigo – I just read your post above about the stalker. That has to be very scary! It is someone you already know? I would in most certain terms tell him that if this doesn’t stop you are going to the authorities.

  136.  #136Azure Blu on October 18, 2015 at 8:49 am

    Who let’s someone go an entire year without
    going to their home?
    We broke up many times over this!!!

    I finally let it go… let him go…
    and of course
    the Rori magic works…

    He started coming on like gangbusters!!!
    EXCEPT the invitation to come to his house…
    I’m tired of all of it!!!

    That’s right darling, honey bunny AZURE!!!
    AND LOVED!!!
    who can’t stop talking about HIS religion
    and how WrONG I am
    and NEVER invites me to his house!!!

  137.  #137Azure Blu on October 18, 2015 at 8:52 am

    T-Girl #134
    Yes, Indigo I agree…
    I have had quite a few men who have stalked me in the past and recently…
    All of them quit when I mentioned going to the police if they didn’t stop!
    It worked well!!!

  138.  #138T-Girl on October 18, 2015 at 8:56 am

    Azure Blue,

    I am so impressed about your CD’ing! So refreshing to see when I hear a lot from Facebook friends saying how “hard” it is to date when you get to a certain age. I am shocked to be reading lately that even Jonathan Aslay (relationship coach) is posting about that. I love reading your easy, breezy posts.

  139.  #139T-Girl on October 18, 2015 at 8:58 am

    Azure, I used to date an extreme Christian. Needless to say, it didn’t work out as he used to refer to us not being “equally yoked”. I have found the people in his circle tend to be very judgmental yet very hypocritical at the same time.

  140.  #140T-Girl on October 18, 2015 at 9:01 am

    Turquoise, I agree with what others are saying. A man’s job is his identity and his role in life. Hence the reason they identify with the care taker role. His just got snatched away from under his feet. It may take him a bit to see that everything is going to be ok.

  141.  #141T-Girl on October 18, 2015 at 9:04 am

    Life has been so busy lately, I am so thankful for this blog and need to remember to come back here. I am finding myself slipping back into some old patterns that I had in my first marriage that I definitely don’t want to slip back into to again. I have to remember that my husband now does not deserve that old side of me. I wasn’t happy with that old side anyway, so why does that pattern even play out?

  142.  #142zara on October 18, 2015 at 11:33 am

    Copy-pasted from Dr. Pat Allen’s Conversational Rape

    Sweet talk versus Straight talk


    Sweet talk :


    ___ALICE: (On the third date) . . . Joe, it’s okay if you spend the night rather than drive home.
    ___JOE: Sounds nice, Alice, where do I sleep?
    ___ALICE: Wherever you want.


    Rape Analysis:
    Alice is a pursuer, a performance oriented female. She needed stroking and has opted to use the male system of dynamic pursuit over the female system of magnetic attraction to obtain those strokes.

    In her undercover message, which she has conveyed at the lower game level, she is inviting Joe to play with her sexually.

    Many women allow the intimacy or intercourse when what they really want, are strokes of friendly affection-TLC.

    One of the big promotional abuses in the world today is that women can experience intimate intercourse indiscriminately without hurting themselves.
    Since women are feel-thinkers and need to be safe and trusting for true sexual surrender, a woman who either invites or allows fast sex runs the risk of desensitizing herself to a total orgasmic experience.

    In this dialogue, Bertha Balls Alice is herself being raped of her rights to be a woman.
    She’s not allowing herself to be sensitive, to move slowly, to be courted and pursued by a risk-taking male who knows how to solve problems, knows what he wants and goes after it.
    And our friend, passive David Daffodil Joe is now in the magnificent power position of receiving all of this deep generosity promoted by Bertha.

    Sadly, Bertha is really promoting Daffodil Joe’s passivity.
    Also, Joe’s negative attitude for women, as objects, things to use and play with, is promoted.

  143.  #143zara on October 18, 2015 at 11:35 am

    Copy-pasted from Dr. Pat Allen’s Conversational Rape

    Sweet talk versus Straight talk


    It is my experience that men want to solve problems so that they feel very, very self-reliant.
    They want to feel in charge, in control, responsible, when they do the performance pursuing.

    When Joe is pursued he does not go through the process of problem solving.
    Therefore, he is actually at the mercy of Alice, which in effect undermines his masculinity and promotes his negativity.
    He distrusts her and he will, in effect, use her, abuse her, and then leave her for a woman who loves herself more than Alice does.

    In this new choice, Joe has entrusted his feelings to a woman who loves herself enough to be considered a worthy trustee of his love feelings.

    Falling in love takes time, it takes effort, but the value is more enduring.

    Relationships are constructed on two different systems.

    One system is very definitely protective, the friendship foundation system.
    It protects the sensitivities of both parties and also allows the rational experience of the two elements of compatibility and communication.

    The other system is based on chemical communication between two sensuous people who are more interested in “thing” body strokes than in spiritual love, sharing, and care strokes.
    As long as both people want the same thing, they will be okay.
    The risk comes when one wants love strokes and the other wants lust.
    People often go to bed in order to eliminate intimacy, because it creates risk-taking pain.
    The massive modern fascination with sexual-chemistry relationships places compatible communication second.

    Relationships based on friendship place compatibility and communication first, and chemistry second.
    Eventually, if the chemistry is there, the inherent negotiation of compatibility and communication will allow the sexual experience in a safe, loving way.

  144.  #144zara on October 18, 2015 at 11:36 am

    Copy-pasted from Dr. Pat Allen’s Conversational Rape

    Sweet talk versus Straight talk


    In consideration of the male, all too often today’s man is being promoted to perform sexually.
    They are ending up with all kinds of sexual dysfunction that they’ve never had before.

    As I said before, when a man solves his problems, he feels more potent and he’s correspondingly more sexually potent as well.
    He is in charge of the situation and when he’s in charge of the situation and behavior, then the female part of him feels safe.
    When a man pursues a woman and he pursues her by being a trustworthy, honourable person then he, in effect, can relax and enjoy himself.

    However, a man who has been seduced, raped, and manipulated by his woman into thinking he’s responsible for giving her orgasms, is a raped man.
    His problem will be manifested variably, from premature ejaculation to seminal retention, to impotence.

    When the job is not performed, it’s because he knows he shouldn’t perform it.
    The accomplishment is not good for him.
    Don’t blame yourself because you didn’t get the job done.

    For example, in terms of the premature ejaculator, you’re saying that you had better get your compatibility, friendship and love factors lined up because the chemistry is being damaged.

    Seminal retainers are hanging on.
    You’re really saying that you don’t want to surrender.
    You don’t want to give because there is something inappropriate about the person you are with or, it may be that you have still not resolved about your fear of demanding, taking women.

    Psychologically, the easiest understood sexual dysfunction is impotence.
    Impotence is saying, “I won’t and you can’t make me do it, lady.”

  145.  #145zara on October 18, 2015 at 11:38 am

    Copy-pasted from Dr. Pat Allen’s Conversational Rape

    Sweet talk versus Straight talk


    Men, since they are very much interested in performance, are in charge of the concrete world. They see a pretty body: they want to touch it.
    That is very concrete.
    Women, on the other hand, are in charge of the abstract, spiritual world, and they, in fact, are very much into not being touched unless they feel safe.

    So, when a man sees a pretty girl he responds to her concretely.
    When a woman sees a man, she thinks about his likability, his lovability.

    When two needy people relate we say they are symbiotic, parasitic.
    They need each other to fulfill themselves.

    Healthy people want each other but do not need.

    I say that people come in two varieties; one shouldering the question “Who am I?” and the other directly an “I,” i.e., “I am myself and I know who I am.”

    Symbiotic people simply do not share.
    They give, they take but they do not share.
    One is a giver and the other a taker.

    In a sharing relationship, there is also give and take. Additionally they also ask for and refuse from time to time.
    Importantly, however, in a sharing relationship each individual predominantly takes care of themselves first.

    Independent people are internally secure.
    Their childhood were stable and they now feel well loved by people.
    When they seek intimacy, they do so with the capacity to share that love with other people.

    The person who is not internally secure is anxious, constantly looking for love and a safe environment.
    When they find what they think they are looking for, they latch on, creating a mutually needy dependent relationship.
    Both lose, as both people continue to promote a lack of independence or “I” centeredness.

    Straight talk:

    ______ALICE: Joe, I enjoyed our date tonight, and I don’t want to feel afraid for your safety. Will you be careful when you drive home?
    ______JOE: It was nice, Alice, and I’ll be careful. When can I see you again?

  146.  #146Emerson on October 18, 2015 at 3:48 pm

    (((Azure blue)))
    I am sorry about spirit…
    I think I have an idea how you are feeling…
    I’m familiar with that conflicted feeling of longing combined with feeling fed up.
    I feel impressed too that you are cding…

  147.  #147Emerson on October 18, 2015 at 3:50 pm

    Hi Tgirl!!

  148.  #148Dixie on October 18, 2015 at 4:00 pm

    144 Zara…. Ohhh, this is speaking to something deep inside me right now… Thank you for sharing that.

    130 Oh Azure, I feel this deep in my heart! It sounds like you are approaching a crossroads for you! Spirit has seemed to open up so much that in truth, I feel curious that maybe his letting you see his place is the “last” wall for him to take down…

    Your post really resonated with me. I’m suddenly been filled with anxiety over D. I’m NOT cding, and I should be, I know. It’s breaking my heart. He says I deserve more and that he loves me very much….. So. My head says smile, turn away, and go on my path….

    My heart tells me to bury my head in his chest and just feel his heart beating. I know he loves me…but it feels scary to admit that this might be all he can give, or wants to give.

    Ohhh, but SO many negative voices came up this weekend, of not being lovable enough, focusing on an ex husband who cheated, remembering an ex boyfriend before that who did the same… The truth is I’ve felt more loved by D than anyone else, and it feels scary to leave that for the unknown.

  149.  #149Dixie on October 18, 2015 at 4:08 pm

    145: Emerson:

    “I’m familiar with that conflicted feeling of longing combined with feeling fed up”.

    Yes, this is what I’m feeling. It’s so much harder when he hasn’t done anything “wrong”. I don’t think I’m fed up with him as much as fed up by own inability to turn around…

  150.  #150Emerson on October 18, 2015 at 5:43 pm

    hi Dixie! Aw I’m glad my words spoke to you….I’m sorry you’ve shared that sentiment though!!

    I am on hiatus from dating at the moment, I’ve been focusing on my new job and relaunching my career. I feel weary of work work work…and I miss looking forward to dates and dinner and cuddle time with a Special Someone….
    my default is to long for the last CDs I felt close to….and I really have had to work hard to focus on me and shift my focus from them….in particular one of them I have leaned forward with sooo much it’s shameful…so unsirenly and I know better….but I always get a reply from him so it’s so tempting when I’m feeling needy!!!
    For the past couple of weeks I’ve been keeping my siren status….

  151.  #151T-Girl on October 18, 2015 at 8:29 pm

    Hi Emerson 🙂

  152.  #152Azure Blu on October 18, 2015 at 8:55 pm

    T-Girl #128
    Yes, the worst is they hold EVERYONE to impossible standards and then proceed to live a life
    constantly judging and living lives so not Christlike…

    Not at all inspiring to me…

  153.  #153Azure Blu on October 18, 2015 at 8:58 pm

    I feel your heart and your delima…

    I’m sorry if I’ve asked before…
    How long have you been with D?

    I would feel confused with someone telling me
    “You deserve better”

  154.  #154Azure Blu on October 18, 2015 at 9:07 pm

    T-Girl #137
    Thank you for your enthusiastic pat on my back!!

    I have gotten much better at cding since Rori and also read Evan Marc Katz

    I’ve never had soooo many dates since I was in my 40s!!
    I am having fun… but am sooo yearning for Mr. Right
    to be my forever man!!!
    I was hoping Spirit was that man…
    But I have gotten lots of practice with Him
    someone I really like, think is the S*xiest man around,
    have tons of fun with AND LOVE
    I have taking down more of my walls
    opened up my heart
    and let him love me…
    I’ve seen how I push and shove a man that I care about!
    it is amazing how much I have changed!!!
    But still is hard to let him go…
    We’ll see how i do…
    it’s only been 2 days…

  155.  #155Azure Blu on October 18, 2015 at 9:08 pm

    Thank you for those thoughtful,
    encouraging words!!

  156.  #156Azure Blu on October 18, 2015 at 9:12 pm

    T-Girl #140
    Interesting to hear about the slipping back
    into old patterns
    Even after Rori!

    Sounds very authentic and a good step
    to realize you are doing that…
    So glad your here…
    It is sooo interesting for me to hear
    about how the Rori tools play out in a longer, commited relationship

  157.  #157Azure Blu on October 18, 2015 at 9:15 pm

    Wondering what you mean by your “own ability to turn around?”

  158.  #158Indigo on October 18, 2015 at 10:06 pm

    T-Girl & Azure Blu,

    Yes this is someone that I know. I met him through friends and agreed to go on one coffee date, even though I had my doubts. It is so awkward because threatening to tell the police feels like such drama :/ and we have a mutual friend. But if he contacts me again I will do that.

  159.  #159Indigo on October 18, 2015 at 10:09 pm


    I know these feelings you are describing so well. Baby steps. Don’t be too hard on yourself. You will figure this out. Have you got clear on what it is you actually want out of a relationship (and not this man specifically), both for now and for the future? I find this clarity helps me if I’m feeling stuck.

  160.  #160Azure Blu on October 18, 2015 at 10:23 pm

    Ahhh Indigo #158
    What a good reminder…
    Take a clear and focused look
    at the relationship we truly want for ourselves.

    THE relationship we visualize
    smell, taste and feel
    throughout our day… before we go to sleep.

    This has helped me keep clear
    in my heart and mind
    The man AND relationship I DO want…
    Sooo… while I am getting to know
    my cds I can more quickly see if they have many of the relationship qualities I am looking for…

    The quality of men I am dating
    has gone WAY up…
    YAY… I can’t be more thrilled about this!

  161.  #161Azure Blu on October 18, 2015 at 10:27 pm

    about your stalker man…
    I haven’t always used the “police” word…
    sometimes I make it very clear
    In other words
    that is what I will do…
    “If you contact me again… in any way…
    I will take more drastic measures…”
    Or something strong…
    insinuating the authorities

  162.  #162Emerson on October 18, 2015 at 10:32 pm

    I realized today that I’ve been standing in my own way to be part of a spiritual community that has been here all along…I blocked myself from it and finally got the courage recently to rejoin…and it feels peaceful and feels like home.

    I wonder what would happen if I got out of my own wY when it comes to love?
    How can I step out of the way?
    I feel curious.

    I also feel frustrated.
    But also I feel at peace.

  163.  #163Emerson on October 18, 2015 at 10:37 pm

    I just made a decision that I’m going to meet the love of my life before the years end. And when I move from my current rental, it will be moving in with my man. Not alone.
    I don’t know if I can “decide” this haha…but I’m writing it here to project that I intend to have this happen and I’m ready for it!!!

  164.  #164Millie on October 18, 2015 at 11:13 pm

    Hi ladies! Had a wonderful week and weekend !! It was my birthday, so enjoyed some wonderful times with my family and friends!!! Been spending a lot of time with a guy who is 13 yrs younger than me (which makes him way too young to be dating material) but who has become a great friend. I feel like I’m living what I want each day, that I’m shaping my life and I’m happy! I feel pretty good about who I’ve become and who I am. No suitors in the picture… Online started to become a breeding ground for men looking to hook up and be rude to me for expressing myself. I have more to talk about with my younger guy friend than I do any of these men online. I really like this post and how Rori says to view your love life as it is rather than as a problem to “fix” . So that said I don’t have anything left to “fix”, to worry about, to beat myself up about… I’m ready to meet my husband, how I’m going to, I don’t know. Is being and living and believing he will show up and being open enough.

  165.  #165Indigo on October 19, 2015 at 12:58 am

    Azure Blu,

    That is a good suggestion, mentioning “more drastic measures.”

    I relate to what you are saying about the quality of the men showing up going up. I have also learned to take my time – to take my time before spending all my time with a guy, before committing to him, before having sex with him… taking my time to find out who he is and get to know him, rather than being swept away by the pretty things he says and does in the beginning, or having the validation of an insta-relationship. This is where I have slipped up too often in the past – been dazzled and bowled over and felt so affirmed by the guys who came on all gushing and strong in the beginning. Only to have things crash and burn or return to normal and then I feel like I am reeling from the pain of a sugar high crash. Or they turn out not to be a good fit for me or relationship material. And probably in the process I was overlooking the guys who were more cautious and wanted to take things slower, but probably had more relationship potential.

    Well, not this time. This time I am making myself slow down and not get carried away and taking time and numerous dates to make my decision. And, it actually feels pretty good.

  166.  #166Azure Blu on October 19, 2015 at 5:25 am

    I feel happy to hear that you have
    “allowed” yourself to feel the warmth, love and care
    from a church community!!!
    That’s huge!!!!

    Does it feel like you are saying to yourself
    “Emerson, you are worthy of warmth, love and care
    from this community”
    Such soft, acceptance you are giving yourself!!!

  167.  #167Azure Blu on October 19, 2015 at 5:36 am

    Emerson #162
    I believe
    Intention is half the battle!!!
    Yes, I am believing with you…
    The love of your life… by Jan. first (or before)

  168.  #168Azure Blu on October 19, 2015 at 5:48 am

    Indigo #164
    so glad the “more drastic measures” was helpful…

    Ahhh… the gift we give ourselves when cding…

    Taking the time to let them reveal themselves more slowly…
    Our choice
    Not getting caught up in the “chemistry making”
    words some men say too soon.
    Our choice
    Continuing to live OUR Wonderful life…
    and seeing how they could/couldn’t fit in,,,
    Our choice

  169.  #169Azure Blu on October 19, 2015 at 5:49 am

    ((((Happy Birthday, Millie!!!))))
    I feel happy to hear you had a great time!!
    ;0 }

  170.  #170IamHis on October 19, 2015 at 6:07 am

    Zara, such good stuff. Thank you!

  171.  #171Linda on October 19, 2015 at 6:31 am

    I am always inspired by you.
    This morning I cant help wonder if I was online if I would have anyone in my life right now. I have taken a looong break from it. Now that I recount it, it has been well over a year now. I am still wrestling with some self limiting beliefs and the past drama and heartbreaks that dating unknowingly invited into my life. I like the peace and uncluttered life I am living right now. Still a part of me would desires to have strong loving arms wrapped around me companionship besides my family and pups.

    You journey with Spirit is most interesting. I am so sorry that he is one of the “narrow minded” believers that judge and impose rules and conditions. That kind of thinking and behavior is quite an ugly. The spirit that energizes that surely is counterfeit and creates division and bondage instead of freedom. I have come to call it a “Religious Spirit” because I have been attacked by it too and I am a believer ! Know that you grew up with this and you have shared how you worked thru things with you mom.

    I just cant help but wonder if Spirit is in your life to heal something deeper about all this. What I read from your post at 119 cuts right to the ground level but there is a root below that . Your wall and his wall is rooted there. The way I see it right there is the perfect place for where the “straight from the heart talk” could have been begun but you both shut down.

    I learned so much from your posts, especially found what your friend shared with you about setting someone up so you could get mad. Is that not what happened anyway? It kinda reads that way. Perhaps not but I thought I would ask?

    This all reminds me of a behavior pattern I experienced with P. I think he was so comfortable with being angry and offended that I could see him creating and setting things up it so he could be.

    Regardless of the outcome and who your forever man is I have full confidence that you are gonna be happy and it will be soon!


  172.  #172Linda on October 19, 2015 at 6:50 am

    I am off work today. My work schedule is changed again. I will still have three day week ends and work long four days but get to go in a bit later two days instead of one with less patient traffic . Starting time will be 6:30 instead of 5:30 AM . It doesnt seem like much but an extra hour or sleep feels precious to me.

    I am going to spend this day on me and enjoy the sunshine. It is turning much colder here and there wont be too many more days like this. A delicious breakfast and stroll in a cozy jacket would feel good.

    I have been so busy with family things and birthdays and grandchildren. Today is a nice bonus.


  173.  #173Azure Blu on October 19, 2015 at 7:11 am

    Ahhhh… your day sounds like a lovely gift
    YOU are giving yourself!!
    I’ve always felt such peace and thankfulness
    when I connect to nature!!
    Enjoy, lovely Siren,,,,

    For me… I have always felt it important to
    take time off from dating
    I have gone many years without any men in my life
    Especially when I was working several jobs,
    having sooo much fun (and stress and exhaustion) raising my 2 children…
    After allowing the wrong men into my heart/life
    I would take time off
    realizing I was NOT able to choose the right man
    and knew
    IT was *ME* I sooo needed to change…

    It was always time well spent!

    I think I have seen you enjoying this time spent
    away from the dating scene…

    Taking one more shot with P

    learning and loving you and your family…

    and occasionally realizing it would be nice…
    to have a loving man in your life…

    I Know you will find him…

    in the mean time…
    You are living YOUR happy-ever-after
    every single day!!!

  174.  #174Azure Blu on October 19, 2015 at 7:34 am

    Linda #170
    Ahhh… lovely lady…
    Thank you for taking the time to consider my posts
    and share your insights!

    I agree with you… that Spirit is in my life to guide me to deeper healing within my soul and heart…
    I have already discovered sooo much more
    about me when inner acting with him…

    and as you so wisely pointed out
    that even if I did avoid blaming him for one part of the evening…
    I brought up other controvertial issues on our way home…

    but… I have been realizing for several weeks
    that I needed to find out soon
    If he really believed I needed to be born again
    (He knows I did this many years ago)
    and all the other religious stuff he is consistently
    BEFORE i got ANY more emotionally close to him…

    For me – it was the perfect time to find this out

    He Was VERY honest (he has sugar coated this for the past year) that he believes I am NOT spiritually saved and am a sinner!!
    just doesn’t work for me…

    And the fact that he wants to get THIS close and STILL
    I haven’t been to his house…
    doesn’t work for me…
    I can’t jeapordize my heart any more…
    the practicing the Rori tools
    and opening my heart to Spirit
    Is done…
    I have a choice!!
    As Feminine Woman said:
    You have chosen to be in the relationship
    either relax and enjoy all that is GOOD
    Get OUT!!!

    believe me Linda, it is very important and supportive to read all that you have shared with me about
    your wise insights about Spirit…

  175.  #175Lilybelly on October 19, 2015 at 7:37 am


    I feel so impressed with the level of self awareness that you have. It is inspiring to me.

  176.  #176Lilybelly on October 19, 2015 at 7:50 am

    I am home from work today with a raging sore throat and my heart feels so sad.

    J is triggered from his past experiences from serving in the military. PTSD is a horrible, horrible affliction and these men and women do not deserve to suffer in this way after protecting our country and sacrificing so much to do so. I feel helpless.

    Last night, I didn’t realize he was in the space he is in, he often masks how badly he is triggered and hurting. We had guests for the football games and after everyone had left, we were cleaning up the kitchen when I noticed that he had some strings that needed to be cut from his jersey. I told him that I was going to cut them off for him, reached in the drawer to grab the scissors and when I moved toward him, he smacked my hand away. I went to bed.
    This has never happened before.

    This morning he said that what he saw was a person coming at him with a knife and not me at all. Then after his shower, he came to me and told me that he can’t protect me from him, he can’t keep me safe because he is so broken and he doesn’t know what to do. There are options for help but he is so scared of really having to relive it if he goes for additional help.

    I have a feeling that he is thinking that leaving is a better way to keep me safe. I don’t know why I am writing all this out, maybe because I am trying to process.

    I told him it must feel so scary.
    I asked him what he wanted to do to get help. He doesn’t want to go through it and he doesn’t want to medicate.
    I shared there are options available and have tried in the past to encourage him to try some alternative methods of healing/therapy. Acupuncture is one method. I am trying to “fix”.
    I said that I know he doesn’t want to feel this way.

    But, you can’t love the pain away. It is a different level of healing, a different kind of healing that he has to do and he can’t do it through me. I feel helpless to help and very, very sad.

  177.  #177Turquoise on October 19, 2015 at 8:49 am

    Hi Sirens….

    I did get to text a bit with Knight Saturday night and he said

    I feel like I have nothing to offer anymore.

    I said,
    Because you lost your job? No response
    I asked him to call, no response
    Then I said if you won’t talk to me, I guess that’s it. I’m mad at you. If you think I’m that shallow… you really don’t know me at all. And if you think the only thing that makes you valuable is that you work, then you are selling yourself quite short.
    And there is no doubt in my mind that you could find a new job by the end of the month if you wanted to.
    These were spaced out over a 30 min. period. No response to any right away. I know…. too harsh, not a safe place for him to share his feelings. I was already upset at not hearing from him all day…. had been crying feeling like he was going to pull away from me, and wondering if it’s even true… but who would lie about losing their job?

    Then he responded
    I know you aren’t shallow, quite the opposite.
    I didn’t respond right away, wondering if he would say more. Then he said,
    I’m sorry. I guess these are my walls.

    I said, I can’t help if you shut me out. and I realize you probably don’t want my help.

    He said, That’s a loaded statement.

    I said…. meaning that you are a man, and typically they don’t want help. This is why I didn’t want to have this conversation over text. I 1000% understand that you feel lousy and want to be alone. I’m not saying you shouldn’t feel that way, but this is two weeks in a row that something bad happened (car accident last weekend) and you shut down on me. I literally feel helpless… I couldn’t even come and give you a hug today, or take you to get your car…. anything, because you just stop talking to me. I miss you. I’m sorry if this sounds like this should be all about me… I definitely don’t feel that way. I’m really sorry this happened to you and wish I could help. I’m just a girl…. it’s what we do. 🙁 (I realize I totally screwed this up and over reacted.

    He sent me a kiss emoji.

    I responded, I took your comment as I have nothing left to offer, so this is over. Why I got mad.

    His response, all of my life, I’ve been afraid of failure. Ive worked so hard to avoid, all for nothing.

    My response, awe honey, this can be overcome… and surpassed. There could be something so much better out there for you and now you have the opportunity to find it. I honestly believe you are one of the smartest and most hardworking men I know. Any company would be so lucky to have you.

    No response, I sent him a flirty text and at least got a good response to that… but that was the end of the conversation and I didn’t hear from him yesterday at all….. for the first time since we first started talking. I reached out to say I hope they call and give him some good news tomorrow (they said they would call him today to discuss if they can find a place for him in another position there) but got no response.

    I know I’ve leaned way too far forward, trying to help, keep in contact…. I just miss him. We’ve spend hours upon hours talking, text regularly. Haven’t seen each other for weeks, and I want him to want to see me. I realize is losing his job could be the end of us…. and maybe that’s ok. Maybe he’s isn’t my person, and maybe I’m not his. But I hate to see something with so much potential just poof.

    Sigh…. so determined not to lean forward, even though I’m tempted to tell him how much I miss him. But I won’t. He obviously doesn’t want to talk, and I’ll have to be ok with that. I just wouldn’t do that to someone I cared about. I would never want to risk them getting mad and walking away because I ignored them, and them caring about me. To me, that just feels like well how important could I really be to you, if you don’t even want to check in with me. Yesterday was a sad day for me too. I could have used a little support and concern. But men just don’t seem to think that way.

  178.  #178Femininewoman on October 19, 2015 at 9:32 am

    He obviously doesn’t want to talk – You really don’t know that. Also what would talking solve?

    I just wouldn’t do that to someone I cared about – this sounds like he is doing something to you though all he is doing is being himself.

    To me, that just feels like well how important could I really be to you, if you don’t even want to check in with me – this is all thinking and not true. He is actually hurting and taking care of his feelings and maybe this is the best way he knows how to. Even my teenage son told me some time ago I am not a girl I don’t talk about my problems.

  179.  #179Femininewoman on October 19, 2015 at 9:33 am


    I can only imagine what this feels like

  180.  #180Azure Blu on October 19, 2015 at 9:40 am

    {{{{Lillybell}}}} #175
    Warm supportive hugs to you darling Siren!!!

    I thank J for his bravery and his willingness to risk his happiness and his life to serve our country!

    I feel sad that he is suffering so much…
    It must feel soooo frustrating to you…

    You are so right realizing this is his journey…

    from my point of view… he could try medication
    I know it helped me sooo much when I was experiencing extreme depression and a nervous breakdown…
    of course anti depressants is a process of trial and error
    but dr and psycologists are sooo much better at prescribing and adjusting for each persons issues…

    I know Dominique and Rori have posts on helping
    men heal and heal from their depression…
    I know one idea they shared was to contact a VA
    hospital… locate the address and phone number of a direct line
    Write it down on a piece of paper
    tell him you know this is his journey
    You have faith that he can find the help
    he needs and work this all out on his own time.
    Here is/are numbers I have found for you
    and then
    she recommends sitting it on his dresser
    he can use them when/if he chooses.
    and then let it go at that…

    it sounds to me like you are doing REALLY well
    at giving him his space,
    walking away when needed and
    realizing this is HIS journey
    Great work Siren!!!
    I know this must be very heart wrenching
    watching someone you care about and love
    going thru something sooo difficult!

  181.  #181Azure Blu on October 19, 2015 at 9:51 am

    Ohhh… no!!! I know how difficult this must be!!!
    Yes… lean way back…

    This is YOUR time to look lovingly at YOUR
    triggers here…
    READ lots of archives about leaning back
    taking excellent care of YOU…

    This is the best he can do…
    whether you realize it… you are pushing him
    away by insisting he talk to you right now…
    Rori has lots of great archives about this…
    so does Dominique…

    Love had huggss
    We are here for you!!

  182.  #182Femininewoman on October 19, 2015 at 9:51 am

    Millie – Happy Belated Birthday. I feel happy to read that you had some fun 🙂

  183.  #183T-Girl on October 19, 2015 at 10:12 am

    Turquoise, reading your post reminded me of something my husband said to me recently. He had just told me he lived me with a nice hug and kiss and said he is so glad he gets to spend the rest of his life with me. I replied that I wish we met earlier in life so we could have had longer (we met at 46 years old). He replied that he wasn’t ready for me then. So it’s just a reminder of how men think, they have to have their lives and career in order until they can fully appreciate a relationship. Hopefully things go well with Knight today but otherwise he may need time.

  184.  #184T-Girl on October 19, 2015 at 10:16 am

    Lillybelly, wow, that is so scary that all he saw was someone coming at him with a knife. I did not realize how PTSD could affect someone in that way. I just want to reach out and give you a big hug right now.

  185.  #185Indigo on October 19, 2015 at 10:28 am


    Oh, I so understand how you feel, I have been there. I echo what the others have said though.

    Men are not like women. And though his way of dealing with this may not be the same as your way, it is still valid. I know you may have trouble believing that so much bad luck can befall one person in such a short time, but it happened to me earlier this year. I had work/money worries, hit a pole with my car and had major and agonising dental surgery, all within the space of 24 hours. Since you don’t know the truth of the situation, best to take him at his word and give him the benefit of the doubt. What good does it do to question him. I also encourage you to seek out the version of this situation that best serves your wellbeing and keeps your feelings intact and doesn’t hurt you. This has helped me a lot.

    What Feminine Woman has said really is true. He is hurting and is taking care of his own feelings. He is not doing anything to you. This is not about you. You can see that surely. Why assume your relationship is going to poof? He hasn’t said that. This is still very early days for you two. My humble opinion is these are your abandonment fears talking.

    What T-Girl said is true too. Men need to work out their life and career issues first before they can be ready for a relationship. What you are seeing here is a classic case of a man withdrawing because he is processing. I really encourage you to give him space and to keep yourself in as positive a headspace as you can. Don’t try to talk to him about it any more, but also don’t beat yourself up for anything.

    This is just my view – but I think it is the greater compliment when men are real with us, when they let us see the real them, and take their time rather than rushing in. Anyone can give you a sweet-looking romance for a few weeks, those people are two a penny.

  186.  #186Femininewoman on October 19, 2015 at 10:52 am

    Oh my, this struck such a chord with me I just had to share.

    “But I assure you, it does work. And what I’d love for you to know is how to use it, CONSCIOUSLY, to get what you want in love.

    The well-known biblical statement, “Ask and ye shall receive” is the simplest explanation I’ve ever seen of this Law — but for most of us, it helps to have the details filled in.

    In this post, I’ll go into the “Ask” part of this Law, and in the next, I’ll fill you in on the “Receive” side of things.

    So, “Ask”. I know you’re asking! You’re asking for that great guy to show up, or you’re asking for your man to change in some way, so that your experience is better. Right?!

    But the trick is in the “how” of the Asking. The Universe doesn’t respond so much to your words, as it does to your emotional state. So how you feel is paramount here.

    You “ask” by emanating a quality of energy, and that’s what you’ll receive in return.

    Here’s what I mean: Let’s say you’re newly back on the dating scene and as you anticipate going out on your next date, you have high hopes, including the hope that he won’t betray you like the last guy did.

    You’re positive and upbeat and you have a great time with this guy and one thing leads to the next and before you know it, you’ve been dating him for 4 months, are in an exclusive relationship with him and things are fabulous. You think this may be the one.

    And then…he cheats on you. Betrayal, with a capital “B”.

    You didn’t even see it coming. You were SURE he was different. But now, besides being broken-hearted that you were betrayed – again — you’re questioning yourself and all men in general!

    OMG — what happened?!

    Well, you were actually leading with the energy of betrayal right from the start! (woops!) That was the strongest emotion within you, even if it was subconscious, and it unerringly created the very situation you were trying to avoid.


    We often think that positive thoughts, being “open” and having high hopes is plenty to create a great relationship. But it ain’t so.

    Hope will actually derail you. Having “hope” exudes the energy of “wishing”. It says: “Universe, I don’t believe I can really have what I want, but I wish for it.”

    So the Universe answers right back by giving you the experience of not having what you want, and wishing for it. And in this case, since you were focused on not experiencing betrayal, the Universe gave you betrayal (as part of the experience of not having what you want). Yikes.

    You see, it’s an all-inclusive Universe!

    That means that whether you are shouting no at something or whether you are shouting yes at something is irrelevant. Both things that you are saying yes and no to will be included in your life experience.

    The Universe doesn’t respond to yes and no – it responds to what you’re focusing your attention on!

    Whether you say yes or no to betrayal doesn’t matter. Betrayal is what will come to your doorstep, if you are focused upon it.

    So how to extricate yourself from this self-replicating program?! Easy. Just figure out what you DO want, and focus on that.

    Focus on it with all the FEELING you can muster.

    See and feel yourself in the glorious, exciting, fulfilling, connected relationship you know is yours. KNOW that it is yours — that it must come to you if you are Asking.

    And shoo “hope” out the door!

    When you find your thoughts going to what you DON’T want, no worries, just notice it, invite that thought/feeling out into a bubble, and blow it up!

    And continue focusing in that wonderful feeling place of having your man with you and living the life you desire. Mmmmmm”.

  187.  #187Azure Blu on October 19, 2015 at 11:06 am

    Feminine Woman
    Very cool… something to consider…

  188.  #188Leela on October 19, 2015 at 12:44 pm

    Hi Sirens! Hope you’re doing well, haven’t been here for ages… A great post by the way!!

    Just thought if anyone could give me some advice, not sure if I even need one, because the whole situation feels silly and little painful.Don’t know if I’m upset about the situation itself, or if I’m upset with myself for acting and feeling the way I do, as it reminds me of my old self- the one it’s not healthy to be… Please read on and don’t laugh

    To cut things short I really like my lecturer. Not sure how it happened, Since the beginning of this academic year I thought he’s quite nice, had a few lectures every week with him. But I removed those from my subject list for now because I had to. Didn’t think of him in a romantic way before, but now that I don’t have lectures with him anymore I miss him! And I’m so angry at myself because I don’t even know if he has any feelings for me whatsoever, at some instances I felt connection, but maybe it was just me. And now I don’t even get to see him! I’m angry because I think about him too much. Upset and sad that I withdrew from his lectures. Doubtful if he likes me or not and if he does would he ever make a move? Probably not! That makes me sad, because this is a situation where even if a guy likes you he won’t act on it because he’s a figure of trust, and even though I’m in my twenties, a student and a lecturer is a taboo!

    Now it just felt good to get it off my chest! And I do circular dating and everything else is pretty good.

    Have any of you ever been in this situation?

  189.  #189Femininewoman on October 19, 2015 at 1:26 pm

    Leela reminds of the Gay Hendricks and his wife. He was a lecturer when they met and he made it known to her

  190.  #190Zara on October 19, 2015 at 2:20 pm

    Femininewoman 185

    That reminds me years ago, when we used to refer to quantum physics on the blog, and to energy exchange. 🙂


  191.  #191Zara on October 19, 2015 at 2:23 pm

    IamHis and Dixie

    An interview of Dr Pat Allen. Part 1

    Interview of Dr Pat Allen. Part2


  192.  #192Zara on October 19, 2015 at 2:27 pm

    Dr. Pat Allen can be called for free at this radio show


  193.  #194IamHis on October 19, 2015 at 5:56 pm

    Trying to follow my intuition here, because it’s the only thing that’s never failed me.

    My instincts knew he wanted me to follow him so we could talk in private, but it just didn’t feelike right, following him felt like chasing him and I want him to try harder. I deserve for him to try harder.

    I’m trying not to let fear drive me, but I do feel a little scared, but I love my fear and I love my stubbornness and I know I deserve my effort than a feeble feeling of “oh, hey, I think he wants me to follow him”

    You want me to follow you? Use your words. Lead me some place safe and beautiful.

    I don’t know where you are taking me and that feels scary.

    I won’t feel safe without apologies. Is that why you wanted me to follow you? So you could apologize?

    I’m not going to makethis easy for you. Even thoughI almost feel too overjoyed at seeing you to still be angry, part of me does still feel angry.

    And of course I feel scared. I did before, but even more so now. I feel confused and I shouldn’t feel confused. I should feel peace, certainty, and deep respect.

    I do feel those things.

    I guess I just feel scared.

  194.  #195IamHis on October 19, 2015 at 6:05 pm

    I want to be called.

    I don’t know what assumption or belief is driving this thought but guys always seem to want to talk to me or for me to talk to them when “they know they’re going to see me.”

    I want plans. I want my routine disrupted, if you have a routine, I want to destroy it because you have to see me, hear my voice, touch me.

    Routines and convenience just won’t do for me anymore.

  195.  #196Turquiose on October 19, 2015 at 7:13 pm

    Hi sirens….. Ugh I know you are all right… I reacted from fear of course and blah….. When I look back at what I said I’m like OMG Turquoise!!! What happened to the progress? Ugh. Oh me. Well, I resisted the urge to text him this morning because I knew that it would feel so much better to see his name pop up on my phone than to be waiting for a response, and that when he was ready… He would reach out. He texted to tell me he was at work, to see what their offer would be. I responded that I was sending positive thoughts and I missed him. No response for hours. I did try to call later, and no answer. He texted me and said that the job the offered him is less than half his salary and if he doesn’t take it, he can’t get unemployment, but if he does take it and can’t find another job, he could lose his house. I responded basically saying that sucked and I was really sorry to hear it, and felt he could get a much better job. He ended up calling and we talked for about a half hour. He sounded pretty miserable, but it was a good conversation. He told me he felt terrible that all the things he said about wanting to take care of me, that he made enough that if we were together I could go to school, start a business… Whatever I wanted… Now all sounded like crap. I tried to reassure him that while that all sounded lovely and was a beautiful sentiment… It wasn’t why I was dating him. I do feel from his words and actions though, that is definitely the role or position he wants to be in. I also reminded him that this could be a temporary situation. He apologized for being quiet and I told him I completely understand… Just that I really care about him and want to be supportive. He said he hasn’t had anyone in his life be that way for such a long time, and it meant a lot, but he’s not used to it. Which all makes complete sense. Something weird happened though while we were on the phone… Another phone rang. When is asked before he said he didn’t have a home phone. He now said he does, and has a fax line. So ok… but I’ve googled him and can’t find him. So I’m not sure I even know his real last name. I want to believe what he’s telling me… But like the article FW shared, I’ve been lied to so much, I half expect it now. Am I manifesting that by being worried about it? I love the things he says, but we haven’t spent enough time together for me to know the actions back it up. I’m an honest person… So I’m always surprised when people lie, especially about stuff that’s easy to check on.

  196.  #197Turquiose on October 19, 2015 at 7:30 pm

    Lillybelly, I have experience with PTSD… It is scary, and I’m so sorry you are going through that. My ex had it…. Maybe he still does. But if you woke him up, you had to stand a few feet away. In time it does seem to have gotten better. Maybe if he won’t go see anyone there are some books you could get him. Or look for a support group in your area maybe?

  197.  #198Turquoise on October 19, 2015 at 8:18 pm

    Azure, thank you for the words and links. That is so incredibly helpful and I’m going to read the articles.
    Indigo…. Thank you for the reminder that bad stuff really can happen all at once. I needed that. So sorry to hear all that happened to you!
    Fw I know, and I know better. You are right. Tgirl, timing really does matter… And j believe he’s feeling like his is way off now. Not sure how this Is going to go.

    Thank you everyone for the love and support!

  198.  #199Emerson on October 19, 2015 at 9:38 pm

    165 Azure Blue
    Yes I am saying those things to myself, you’re so right on. I literally had to remind myself that I was “allowed” to be there and provide radical self acceptance to me, before I could walk into the sanctuary. It was definitely a challenge to do this and I felt a tightness in my throat.

    I also appreciate that you’re sharing in my intention for love!!

  199.  #200Emerson on October 19, 2015 at 9:43 pm

    I have noticed about myself that I am not good at managing stress from work…when things get busy and I feel pressured to perform and meet deadlines…I work harder and harder and push myself like crazy…

    I try to decompress after work but it takes me a while to figure that out…it changes what really is effective….

    I am going through this now feeling very stretched to my limit and working a lot…
    It triggered a memory of when I overworked myself a few years back to the point where I almost had a mental breakdown.

    I could not sleep at night and I was so stressed out. I was all wound up inside and lost a lot of weight.

    This time i’m older and gaining weight instead. Bah.
    WEll, recognizing this is the first step to fix it.

    Sometimes I just want to go home and eat some hot soup and cuddle with a strong man who loves me. I get tired of “activities”…

  200.  #201Emerson on October 19, 2015 at 9:46 pm

    193 and 194 Iamhis
    I love love what you had to say here… it really speaks to me 🙂

  201.  #202Emerson on October 19, 2015 at 9:52 pm

    185 FW
    I absolutely needed to read this! So fabulous and soo true…
    🙂 Emerson

  202.  #203Indigo on October 20, 2015 at 12:20 am

    Azure Blu 173,

    I can’t help seeing the hypocrisy in Spirit – him calling you a sinner and spiritually unsaved, and yet he was the one, was he not, who disappeared on you a few months back in order to pursue a relationship with another woman, without even having the decency to tell you.

    I can’t help feeling you really, really deserve better than this. Someone who is at least willing to try and open their heart and go deep the way you are doing.

  203.  #204Zia on October 20, 2015 at 12:40 am

    Iamhis #194 I love this ” I want my routine disrupted, if you have a routine, I want to destroy it because you have to see me, hear my voice, touch me.”

  204.  #205Indigo on October 20, 2015 at 4:39 am


    What is your opinion on a long distance relationship?

  205.  #206Sirenity on October 20, 2015 at 5:04 am

    Turquoise, Hi to you !!!! Hope you don’t mind me commenting. I am sorry you thought you found a good one up front but who doesn’t seem to have the next part sorted.

    Frustrating though it feels, you have encapsulated the situation in your observation that “thats two weeks in a row that something bad happened and you shut down on me” …It seems like this is likely his modus operandi.

    I know you feel sad to see something “promising ” just evaporate, but ask yourself do you really want a man whose response to stress is Withdrawal, Walls and Wallowing..leaving you with the complementary dynamic of leaning forward , over functioning and feeling bad?? Do you want someone who shuts down every week?

    Better you see this man’s emotional ability up front perhaps. It doesn’t look promising the way he is dealing with these two life events. Imagine being with a man like that as all the little frustrations of daily life come along. What is his default “coping strategy”?Do you want that? Many men are good at describing their stress , owning their response and if necessary asking for time out.This one doesn’t seem to be showing you those attributes.

    On the other hand as you lean back and let him do his thing you would soon discover how resilient he is , or not , under stress. It means that your discomfort at letting the “promise” go would need to be felt fully. It does feel disappointing when we see the exciting good stuff may not have “legs”.It doesn’t seem fair at all!

    Perhaps you could CD !!! (As always in this scenario)

    Recently I had a similar style of man , though it really didn’t become obvious till over a year down the track when I realised he was unable to share any of his issues or stresses. Instead he withdrew and just shut down . He was emotionally unable , remained in denial and eventually faded away. Whilst this was a painful exercise for me, I did meet someone much better.

    My current man is in hospital after a cancer operation right now. Yet tonight he is caringly chatting on Skype wanting to help me sort some of my (very minor by comparison) stresses and talking through some of his adjustments and difficulties. He shows up , he talks about the hard stuff and he is there in front of me no matter how difficult or painful the situation. Yes some men are definitely able to “do” stress without fading or becoming needy.

    Look for one like that.

    Mine was even mentioning rings tonight 🙂

  206.  #207Sirenity on October 20, 2015 at 5:18 am


    Ill share some thoughts on LDRs.

    Depends on whether it starts long distance or becomes that way from circumstance. Voluntarily starting a LDR from scratch is building in a certain distance and if it is quite difficult to meet physically at least weekly then it is likely also building in a form of unavailability and both parties need to ask themselves the tough questions about what they might be avoiding. It could work as long as both parties are equally unavailable or equally avoidant. I know a friend who did it for 2 years with meetings each 4-8 weeks on average. Eventually one party will want more and oddly it was the avoidant man in that case.He had a pattern of LDRs so as to avoid a real intimate relationship.

    If a close relationship becomes a LDR due to circumstance , e.g. a military posting , where it is an expected part of the relationship it is difficult but it can work . I believe some here could comment on that scenario.

    If it became an LDR because a partner chose a new job opportunity over the relationship then I suspect it is doomed to fail as the relationship stays part of the old life and the partner moves on.

    Eventually in any LDR someone has to give up their life and move and if you yourself are not flexible enough to do that, then an LDR is doomed.

    So right now my man officially lives 2 hours away (the one in hospital) . He works just over one hour away in the city. We meet at least weekly , and he stays with me often .Eventually we will both move. We are both flexible about that with families and work and we will likely live in the middle (city) where our kids all live too. Is this an LDR? Not sure of the definition.

  207.  #208Azure Blu on October 20, 2015 at 7:06 am

    Indigo… LDR
    I have found for me, I don’t like them…
    I have noticed I feel more safe with someone from my same area -known in the community, easy access, knows about alot of what is going on in my community…
    where as the LDR – Not much chance for spontenaity…
    eventually someone gets tired of driving…
    although both my new cds are about 45 min.
    away… they don’t mind driving at all!!
    so that is working…
    and I do like getting out of my town a lot..
    and there aren’t that many men available close by
    on the online dating site POF…

    guess it depends on how often you want to see each other… and as Serenity pointed out
    eventually you would want to live together *IF* he ends up being Mr. Right…

  208.  #209Victoria on October 20, 2015 at 7:09 am

    From my experience it can work, if the relationship was pre-existing the long distance situation, and there is a clear understanding that the going away partner will come back after a clear period of time. But even in such circumstances it is a 50:50 chance. I have seen couples pull it together, and I have seen marriages falling apart because of it.
    EMK had a long post about long distance recently. It is not inspiring at all, as you can imagine, but I sort of agree with him that most of the time it is too difficult.

  209.  #210Azure Blu on October 20, 2015 at 7:15 am

    Indigo #200
    Thank you, Thank you, Thank you…
    as always for your warm, wise counsel!!!

    Yes, I agree with you…
    I do deserve more than this…
    i’m sad… and I know there will be plenty of times…
    I will miss him terribly
    BUT… I am excited to open my heart to Mr. Right
    when he appears…
    it *ISN’T* a man who wields his religion like a
    sledge hammer!!! (is that Christ like?)

    As I learn to LOVE ME more
    I am VERY careful with my sweet, innocent, lovely heart
    and can let go of relationships that don’t treat me
    with TLC!!!
    Ahhhh… thank you Universe for the gift of
    finding Siren Island and all you wonderful Sirens
    AND learning All of Rori’s Tools
    I *AM* living my

  210.  #211Azure Blu on October 20, 2015 at 8:57 am

    the wonderful thing has been…
    in the past 2 months he HAS
    opened his heart, letting me into his life
    showing me more of his deep wonderful self…
    cooking and shopping, visiting friends, dancing,
    walks in the parks,
    relaxing and cuddling, hanging out at my house
    and wonderful fun, yummie s*x
    I’ve sooo much enjoyed this part of him
    which he has kept hidden (maybe he was still in love with someone else?? who knows)
    BUT I knew
    It was time to find out more of what he actually saw for our future (which is me, converting to his religion)

    I’m angry at LIFE for Having to (AGAIN) say this won’t work for ME…
    WHY can’t I have another man like my late fiance????
    Why couldn’t I have had that for the rest of my life???

    It does seem NOT FAIR… but we know…
    Life isn’t fair and we CAN go on
    and I am
    and I will find a better man…
    and I did enjoy my time with Spirit…
    Just very tired of dating….
    love you Azure…
    I’m so sorry Spirit didn’t work out…

  211.  #212Indigo on October 20, 2015 at 10:03 am


    Thank you so much for all of your thoughts on LDR’s.

    Bush Boy has shared today that he will stationed permanently in a place that is about 2 – 3 hours away from next week.

    I’ve only just found out and I’m still processing the news.

  212.  #213Indigo on October 20, 2015 at 10:06 am

    Azure Blu 208,

    Aaah, I understand.

    D opened up to me in the absolute best way he knew how towards the end, showed me so much of his warm, caring, generous, soft underbelly. He was showing his love in his way.

    I don’t regret any of it.

  213.  #214Indigo on October 20, 2015 at 10:14 am


    Thank you for mentioning this:

    “On the other hand as you lean back and let him do his thing you would soon discover how resilient he is , or not , under stress. It means that your discomfort at letting the “promise” go would need to be felt fully. It does feel disappointing when we see the exciting good stuff may not have “legs”.It doesn’t seem fair at all!”

    I was talking to my mom this evening about the news of Bush Boy’s moving, I really needed someone to process this with, and a lot of it came down to this statement above. Thinking, hoping for something more with this man, and now I don’t know what it is. But yes, you’ve summed it up nicely here.

  214.  #215Dominique on October 20, 2015 at 10:42 am

    Though I’m still neck deep in my cross country move, I have been keeping up, just unable to post.

    Indigo – a thought which leapt out at me – remember you get to choose every step of the way.

    Love to you.
    And love to all of you.


  215.  #216Indigo on October 20, 2015 at 10:47 am

    Dominique xxx

    <3 love to you as you sort through your move

  216.  #217Azure Blu on October 20, 2015 at 10:47 am

    Indigo #209
    Ohhhh… darling…
    This must be such a jaring surprise
    I know you have such wonderful and hopeful feelings for this man…

  217.  #218Azure Blu on October 20, 2015 at 10:49 am

    Wow… your cross country move!!
    So glad to hear you have made it safe and sound..
    How are you enjoying things in California?

  218.  #219Azure Blu on October 20, 2015 at 10:56 am

    I was thinking that me letting go of Spirit
    is alot like you and D….
    You didn’t really get in a disagreement…
    or have a fight…
    didn’t he share, one more time, that he really didn’t know if he wanted a committed relationship…
    and You know YOU Do…
    so you sweetly walked away!

    Same with Spirit… he’d be glad to badger me, about me being a sinner and needing to become an extreme christian, for the rest of our lives together…
    But I KNOW, that is NOT my plan for my happily-ever-after..
    so I am sweetly walking away…

  219.  #220Leela on October 20, 2015 at 11:12 am

    Thank you Zara, those were good articles! xx

    Indigo, speaking about long distance relationships, I would have it as long as I have other men to date alongside. For long distance I would need a guy that I’m very attracted to but not in love with, in other words someone I’d love to have sex with but wouldn’t obsess over. Other that these reasons I wouldn’t go for it because if you love a guy and his far away.. it just sucks! He could be there doing anything and you wouldn’t know, and then it’s very hard to build intimacy. I just don’t believe it can work as an exclusive, permanent relationship.

  220.  #221Indigo on October 20, 2015 at 11:37 am

    Thank you Azure Blu & Leela,

    We both shared with each other that we didn’t feel that long distance was something we wanted. I know I’ve always felt it would be too hard, and he shared that it was hard enough when we lived 45 minutes from each other. So.

    But since I’m not in love with him yet I am willing to leave the door open and see what happens.

  221.  #222Indigo on October 20, 2015 at 11:39 am

    Azure Blu,

    Yes exactly. Much as D loved me, he would have been happy to keep me at arm’s length for the rest of our lives. Who knows really. But yes, I walked away as sweetly as I could muster.

    It’s hard when you’re so entangled with someone, but this realisation was what kept me going.

  222.  #223Azure Blu on October 20, 2015 at 12:24 pm

    (((Indigo))) #218
    sounds like a really good exchange and thoughtful insights between you both…
    to me that sounds perfect… to leave the door open!
    one never knows!! :-))

  223.  #224Lilybelly on October 20, 2015 at 1:31 pm


    Have been thinking of you and K..

    And your new kitty.


  224.  #225Millie on October 20, 2015 at 1:59 pm

    So mechanic told me today that he thinks it’s best if we don’t talk or see each other anymore. “But we are still friends”. Basically his gf found out about our past and was upset I texted him….. And rightfully so, she’s right. I shouldn’t have. But it hurt to be the one that got cut out, he chose her. I feel like nothing…. I feel like wave of anger to cut people out of my life who don’t want me in theirs. To hack away at everyone… To start over, to shed the past…

    I ask myself why am I constantly being rejected, mistreated, not chosen… Am I not choosing myself enough? Am I not being kind to myself? I want to be around people who love me, who want my friendship. I’m ready to leave behind this emptiness, in order to gain more.

  225.  #226April Rose on October 20, 2015 at 2:46 pm

    Oh Azure,

    I love you and hear you and send you a huge hug.

    I will say what I have been thinking all along. “Oh, how I wish you weren’t sharing your body with him”.

    I have been doing it too, with a man who deep down I did not feel as my forever man. I got invested anyway. And I think it happened through the physical intimacy.

    I know that Rori says we girls need to be touched and need to take a lover. Thing is, if we have feelings for the man and we start to get attached, doesn’t that make it harder for our true beloved to enter the picture?

  226.  #227Turquoise on October 20, 2015 at 6:16 pm

    Hi Sirenity 🙂 we talked about those things and I brought up that concern… And he said of course he wouldn’t pull away if we were married, but we are so new in the relationship and that his problems shouldn’t be my problems. So, I do understand where he’s coming from. I’m taking a big step back. I texted him last night and said that I appreciated that he’d called and that was taking care of my feelings, but that I understand he has some really huge things to figure out and if he didn’t feel like talking, I understand. I reminded him that I’m here, but not to feel obligated to call. Because the thing is… Even though we did talk for a half hour and he shared a lot, I could feel how uncomfortable he was. And I don’t want that. I didn’t hear from him today and I’m totally ok with that. It is so soon to have big issues like this. I think it’s ok to take some time and see what happens.
    I still have a very strong gut instinct that he’s hiding some pretty big things from me. I’m not dwelling on it. If he is, it will come out in time.
    I’m a very visual person and this morning the sunrise was gorgeous. It made me think how happy and warm it feels… How peaceful. How lovely a sunset is. I want that in a relationship. I want to wake up and end my day feeling that way in a relationship. So next time I start to panic, I’m thinking of my sunset and how I want to feel in a relationship.

  227.  #228BeLoved on October 20, 2015 at 6:30 pm

    Oh, Millie, ouch ouch ouch. Much love and sweet comfort to you, darling siren.

    Azure Blu – I feel so relieved to hear you making such a strong choice for yourself and what you really want. Go YOU!

    In my world, TG announced today that he is selling the house. So I’m home hunting again, and am feeling happy and excited, seeing it all unfold with grace and ease.

    After reading the post about the energy we bring into a relationship, at first I was thinking…I wonder if I came into it with an energy of abandonment and that’s why this is happening? Yet after feeling my way through…what I get is, I came into it with an energy of TRUST, love and respect, and that is how it continues to unfold. It’s obvious how miserable TG is here in TX, he hates it here and is so heartsick for CA and of course I want him to be happy and I trust the goddess shall host me exactly where I next need to be.

    It’s funny because I didn’t really see this coming, but, last night I dreamed he came to me and told me how much he loves me and we stood face to face, present with each other. I woke up feeling so full of that love.

    On top of that, I’M MEETING MY BIRTH SISTER THIS WEEKEND WOOOOT!!! I feel practically manic about that. I feel like it’s her I’ve been missing my whole life and never knew. I feel SO proud to be her sister, she is an amazing person. I can’t wait!


  228.  #229Millie on October 20, 2015 at 10:37 pm

    Thank you Beloved! I feel really down and sad and also angry. This isn’t the first time ive been caught in a love triangle… And I wonder if it’s my fault, if I’m somehow choosing this. I feel humiliated and embarrassed. Cast aside, and angry at that. I want to run away… I want a new man to surround me, so I can forget all the stupid things I’ve done..start fresh.

  229.  #230Indigo on October 20, 2015 at 10:43 pm

    I want to say something to you that my mom said to me last night. Is it worse because he is the one who rejected you, rather than the other way around? Because from everything you’ve shared here about him recently, it seems as if you had come to the conclusion that he was not right for you and you should keep him at a distance too. This is the sneaky way in which our abandonment/rejection fears play up on us. We don’t want someone, but we don’t want them to reject US. I encourage you to ponder this about, because I feel it’s at the root of a lot of your pain over rejection. And I say this because I’ve been through it myself more times than I can count. I KNOW someone is not right for me, but let them reject me and all hell breaks loose inside me.

    April Rose 223, – I really agree with your thoughts here. This is a realisation I’ve come to recently. I think it very much depends on the woman… Victoria here on Siren Island has shared that she doesn’t feel sex is a big deal and she can have it without getting disproportionately attached to the man.

    For me, it muddies the waters and bonds me to men whom I know instinctively are not my forever man. It is something I want to keep for someone more special from now on.

  230.  #231Victoria on October 20, 2015 at 11:21 pm

    April Rose 223 and Indigo,
    Oh well, we all do get “disproportionately attached” to certain men, and I have come to the realization that it is not really the s*x but more likely the man’s behavior (blowing hot and cold, unreliable etc) that gets me really crazy.
    You have probably heard about this experiment that when a mouse presses a button, and it gets cheese. When this happens every time, the mouse goes and presses it only when it is hungry. If, however, the button produces cheese only once in a while, the mouse keeps pressing it all the time.
    I have noticed that I get disproportionately attached to men who give me my cheese only once in a while. This gets me very quicly into a pleaser mode, into overfunctioning mode. And, the only way to cut this is to go no contact with the man, and this obviously means no s*x because this is the strongest form of contact. Or, to be able to be getting cheese from other sources (commonly known here as CDing :-)).
    Otherwise, I have had probably the best s*x with a man I had zero emotional attachment to, because he was very reliably a jerk. Had he been nice to me occasionally, I would have fallen in the trap.
    What do you think?

  231.  #232Indigo on October 20, 2015 at 11:45 pm


    I love it! I really do! You have nailed it.

    When I am having sex with a man who loves me, who treats me consistently well, who is as committed to me in his heart and mind as he can be at that moment, sex is not a big deal. Alternatively, when I am not committed to the man and have no emotional investment in him, and am actively seeking and dating others, sex is not a big deal.

    Contrast this with B, whom I slept with the other week. He pushed rather hard for sex. I’m not saying he pressured or forced me, but he just physically overwhelmed me. I had the impression of him that he was a lovely guy and really into me, and was safe… and so I let myself get carried away in the moment. The very next day, he was supposed to let me know about seeing me that evening – nothing, not a word. Not even a text. Supposedly he was out the whole day and his battery went flat, which does appear (unlikely as it sounds) to actually be true. But it made me so mad. Then he took me out to lunch the following day and insinuated about seeing each other the following evening, and again no word was mentioned about those plans. Yes things come up, but now I’ve slept with the guy and I’m angry with him. He then went away for a few days and has only sporadically kept in contact.

    I’m not impressed. I don’t feel cherished or like this is worth it at all. Do I go no contact with him?

    It all seems to depend on our feelings/expectations about the man in question.

  232.  #233Victoria on October 21, 2015 at 12:24 am

    You need to think carefully about this one. If you allow the contact to continue, he will occasionally be very nice to you. If he managed to create the impression that he is safe and into you once, he can do it again. This is how we get addicted.
    I saw a week ago someone who I cut out of my life because he was doing this to me. We saw each other as friends (or G*d knows who), he asked and I agreed to see him, and he was telling me how he will call again, we even dicsucced a certain business issue where he promised he will give me feedback. Did I hear from him at all? Radiosilence. Do I get pissed off when he does not do what he says he will? Well, not as much as at the beginning, but yes, it still stings a bit.

  233.  #234Victoria on October 21, 2015 at 12:36 am

    What is this thing with becoming an extreme Christian, I am asking out of curiosity.
    I get the impression that he drinks, dances and has s*x outside of marriage, so what exactly does he expect you to do? Are his friends religious fanatics?
    Or is this just a round-about way for him to ask you for exclusivity and stop seeing other men?

  234.  #235Indigo on October 21, 2015 at 12:41 am


    I agree with you about Azure’s Spirit. The word hypocrite springs to mind.

  235.  #236Indigo on October 21, 2015 at 1:27 am


    Yeah it is tricky, because although he seems like a very nice guy, I am not exactly feeling bowled over by his reliability. It doesn’t feel very nice. I don’t like the way it feels at all.

    Bush Boy has at least been very upfront about his life situation. I have never felt that anxious feeling.

  236.  #237Zara on October 21, 2015 at 3:38 am

    229 Indigo said:
    *****Contrast this with B, whom I slept with the other week. He pushed rather hard for sex. I’m not saying he pressured or forced me, but he just physically overwhelmed me. I had the impression of him that he was a lovely guy and really into me, and was safe… and so I let myself get carried away in the moment. The very next day, he was supposed to let me know about seeing me that evening – nothing, not a word. Not even a text. Supposedly he was out the whole day and his battery went flat, which does appear (unlikely as it sounds) to actually be true. But it made me so mad. Then he took me out to lunch the following day and insinuated about seeing each other the following evening, and again no word was mentioned about those plans. Yes things come up, but now I’ve slept with the guy and I’m angry with him. He then went away for a few days and has only sporadically kept in contact.

    I’m not impressed. I don’t feel cherished or like this is worth it at all. Do I go no contact with him?*****


    Is this a man you are interested in as a husband?
    Are you still interested in him?

    If so, be vulnerable, let things come to your life.
    Let him contact you. He contacts you first and you answer. As simple as that. Stick to it. The dating stage is about his energy coming to you all the time.
    It is only in the courting stage that the flows allows for 1 contact from you for every 2 contacts from him.

    Right now, when he does not contact you, love yourself. Do not fall for it. Do not contact him. Let go.

    When he asks you out on a date, accept it.

    When he kisses you , enjoy it.

    When he goes down on you, enjoy it.

    When he moves on towards intercourse, stop him and say “I made a mistake the other day. I feel attracted to you but I don’t feel comfortable with intercourse without a committed, monogamous and continuous loving relationship leading towards marriage.”

    If he gets upset and leaves, so be it. Don’t fall for it. Don’t contact him.

    If he never comes back, you know he was not going to court you anyhow after the dating stage. He was after an uncommitting girl friend to have sex and company with.
    With all the sexual disease nowadays, having a steady monogamous girl friend feels safe and comfortable to men who don’t want to commit. That’s why uncommitted men ask for exclusivity and sex.
    Seducing a new woman to bed every week is a huge health risk and costs a lot more emotional and financial resources than driving to the steady girlfriend’s home where he knows he’ll get food, sex and warmth for free.

    If he is a right man for you, he will call after a while. He needs time in a first stage to convince himself he did not need you anyway, there are plenty of women around and bla bla bla. And who do you think you are to black mail him and what not… After which, things take place in his mind and he feels pulled back to you. This time, the whole of him is interested by you. He comes back to date you the way you teach him to date you.

    It does not matter what you did with him so far, you can start afresh from now on. No sex means no intercourse, no blow jobs. ( Anything involving penetration of your body) Everything else is fine.

    Being vulnerable means accepting the possibility that he does not come back after you said “no” to intercourse. And choosing to love yourself rather than chase him or please him. Vulnerability will show a good man the road to your heart.


  237.  #238Azure Blu on October 21, 2015 at 4:02 am

    Zara #234
    I agree
    Ahhh… the self love of being a Siren!!

  238.  #239Azure Blu on October 21, 2015 at 4:05 am

    “Vulnerability will show a good man to your heart”

  239.  #240Azure Blu on October 21, 2015 at 4:22 am

    Victoria #231
    Ahhh… the complexity of extreme charismatic, Dutch reform
    or any religion for that matter…
    The crying and whaling and knashing of teeth…
    the constant referral to sin
    and EVERYONE as sinners
    except for the very few whom they view as
    the ONLY ones that will go to heaven…
    and yes
    as Indigo points out
    Ahhh… the hypocracy of it all!!!

    What I shared with him was…
    “I feel disresptected and judged
    when you question my relationship with God
    I believe that is a very personal thing
    and is between me and god.”
    I would never assume to question YOUR relationship with God.”

    He admits he is a hypocrite
    because he dances… drinks, has s*x etc…
    But that hasnt’ stopped him from living a life
    of constant judgement!!!!

    My mother is the same religious fervor and judgement… although she hasn’t had a drink her whole life (she would certainly benefit from one or two!!) of course no dancing etc…
    I have learned to accept her just the way she is…
    But to live with someone (as I did my growing up years) would be MY version of Hell!!!

    I have a wonderful life
    I know the Universe has much more Magic for me
    than Spirit has to offer…

    Thank you, darling Victoria,
    for your concern and constant
    love and encouragement!!!

  240.  #241Azure Blu on October 21, 2015 at 4:25 am

    I’m excited to hear more about this man you are dating?
    How are the Rori tools working
    and all the yummines!!

  241.  #242Azure Blu on October 21, 2015 at 4:28 am

    Sooo sad to hear you are having to move…
    am I missunderstanding?
    Did you and TG have a relationship?

    How is your wonderful job going?

    Were you adopted and have recently found a birth sister?

  242.  #243Azure Blu on October 21, 2015 at 4:31 am

    Turquois #224
    Wow!!! what a Siren you are being!!!

    I love what you said here:
    “I could feel how uncomfortable he was. And I don’t want that.
    I didn’t hear from him today
    and I’m totally ok with that.
    It is so soon to have big issues like this.
    I think it’s ok to take some time and see what happens.”
    “So next time I start to panic, I’m thinking of my sunset and how I want to feel in a relationship.”


  243.  #244Azure Blu on October 21, 2015 at 4:50 am

    April Rose #223
    Thank you for your thoughtful care!!!

    I have known Spirit for 2 years (in Nov)
    and dating for a little over one year…
    I waited for over 2 months and we were exclusive
    to have s*x with him…
    and it did cause me to become needy and pushy…
    as he pulled away afterwords and became disconnected and unreliable…

    I’ve only had s*x with him for the past year

    It does trigger more emotional intimacy,
    in me, after s*x
    so I have learned to be very careful
    who I share this very lovely, intimate,special
    part of me, with….
    It is ME, taking exquisite care, of ME…
    and men (secretly) LOVE hearing this.

    even waiting for s*x doesn’t always work out…
    BUT when I choose a partner…
    I realize each time (if it is on again off again)
    THIS is MY choice… I am needing s*x.
    Doesn’t mean I don’t get hurt…
    BUT… life is an adventure
    and I do want to participate fully!!!

    I went over 10 years without s*x
    while raising children and realizing
    i was making AWFUL choices in men

    Now with the Rori tools I am exploring
    me and how I participate (or don’t) in the love making.

  244.  #245Victoria on October 21, 2015 at 4:50 am

    I would feel extremely uncomfortable to give the “I am not that kind of girl” speech.
    Especially the part “I only sleep with men in a relationship that may lead to marriage”. To me, this is an impossible standard to hold myself too, and I do not know any real life women in my age group (40s) who can say this with a straight face.
    Food for thought.

  245.  #246Azure Blu on October 21, 2015 at 5:04 am

    Victoria #242
    Im with you here…
    I soo would not say “leading toward marriage”

    Not because of what the man may think…

    for ME and how I feel about HIM
    It’s just would be too soon to have marriage on the table!!

  246.  #247Turquoise on October 21, 2015 at 5:09 am

    Awe…. I had a nice long message typed out and stopped to take a stunning sunrise picture, and my post disappeared!! Thank you Azure Blue! I certainly felt more sireny. 🙂 I didn’t teach forward at all…. He texted me to say he hoped I’d had a great day. I responded that I was still up working and he called. He still sounded a little uneasy at first, but he really melted into the conversation and we talked for hours. I was more conscious to really listen to what he was saying and shared how I had been feeling in a vulnerable way. He responded wonderfully and openly… And I feel so much better about things today. I even shared my sunrise/sunset idea of what I’m looking for and he said he thought that sounded wonderful. So I’m ok with staying in lean back mode, letting him come to me, make plans and lead. Zara, I love your post about being vulnerable and the reminder that courting is different from dating. I really needed to read that.
    I made a point to smile at men at work, while talking to them on the phone… And even reached out to say hi to a guy I went on a date with in the summer. He responded warmly with stories about his daughter, asked about mine and we talked about work a little. It was good for me to shift my focus to other men in the world, rather that think about checking my phone a dozen times for contact from knight. He has another meeting at work today, to see if they can offer him something better. If not, he said he’s not going to take it. He promised to let me know how it goes (I didn’t ask him to, just said I hope it goes well) so we shall see if he does.
    In the meantime, much love to me…. And all you sirens!!! And by the way, the sunrise was gorgeous this morning!

  247.  #248Indigo on October 21, 2015 at 5:24 am


    Thank you for your thoughts here. I have had the conversation with him where I said I felt I made a mistake sleeping with him too soon. He’s agreed that we stop this and spend time dating & getting to know each other. I feel we are on the same page here.

    To be honest I don’t see him as husband material. This is hard to put my finger on but I just don’t really see the fit. I’m really still getting to know him so it’s too soon to tell. I don’t necessarily, as Victoria said, need a relationship leading towards marriage to have sex, but I need more than what I have now.

  248.  #249Zara on October 21, 2015 at 6:14 am

    Victoria said:

    I would feel extremely uncomfortable to give the “I am not that kind of girl” speech.
    Especially the part “I only sleep with men in a relationship that may lead to marriage”. To me, this is an impossible standard to hold myself too, and I do not know any real life women in my age group (40s) who can say this with a straight face.
    Food for thought.

    That is what a man answers most often. And it is OK. It is his job. My job is to stay vulnerable and in alignment with myself. To keep loving myself.

    “I am not that kind of girl” This feels judgmental.

    “I only sleep with men in a relationship that may lead to marriage” is not something I would say either. Generalisation disconnects me from the truth. I am sure I have slept with at least one uncommitted man (whoever “I” is) and in this case, I did sleep with this man a few days ago, so I can not pretend I have a rule about ” I only sleep with men in a relationship that may lead to marriage”. As for the future of that rule, I can’t speak for the obvious reason I don’t know the future.

    “To me, this is an impossible standard to hold myself too, and I do not know any real life women in my age group (40s) who can say this with a straight face.”
    It seems logical that a woman, regardless her age, can’t say anything with a straight face until it’s in alignment with her truth.

    In my speech, there is no judgment of others. It is about me and my feelings. I love myself and I speak for myself in alignment with my truth. If it happens I feel anxious after sex with a man I am still interested in, if it happens I observe I need to feel cherished with continuous contact from a man committed to me, and I don’t feel cherished, then I take a loving decision to ease myself into a better feeling state. I speak to the man only of myself and of now. Hence no judgment nor reference about others who have sex their own way and no judgment nor reference about myself in the past or in the future.
    Right now, in this moment I don’t feel comfortable letting a man into my body without feeling cherished. What do I need to feel cherished? And according to what I need, (to each their own needs), I discover my boundaries and I speak up.
    And I stand my ground. I stay grounded in myself within my comfortable boundaries I newly discovered, heart opened to what may come.


  249.  #250Victoria on October 21, 2015 at 6:37 am

    thank you for taking the time to explain how you see things, I find it both interesting and useful.
    I hope you do not mind me challenging some of your ideas, I do that because at a first glance they seem really attractive to me, but then when I rehearse the phrases in my mind, occasionally something does not fit.
    And, I hope to be able to find the words that fit my mental state, not to align my mental state with the words.
    May I have your patience and support some more?
    “Right now I don’t feel comfortable letting a man in my body without being cherished”.
    I again find it hard to say “I don’t feel cherished by you”. Even though, for me to not want to engage with him, the reason is probably exactly that, that he did not call as promised, cancelled a date or two, etc. But to me, to admit that, is like pointing out the obvious, because I know (ok, I assume) that he knows very well that he’s been inconsiderate. Unless he is clueless, but is anyone ever?
    Asking a man for reliable conctact seems like a very needy thing for me to do… How can you say that in a not needy way?

  250.  #251Victoria on October 21, 2015 at 6:45 am

    The more I think about this, the more I think I would say “Hey, we had s*x because I like you and we have a lot of chemistry, but then the other day you did not call when you said you would, and you are kind of shady about seeing me again, but now you come and ask for s*x again, and I kind of have a bad taste in my mouth from the last experience because of how you acted after we had s*x and I would really like to avoid feeling like that, what do you think”.
    Oh sh*t, this comes out accusatory…

  251.  #252Sami Wunder on October 21, 2015 at 7:08 am

    Zara, LOVED what you wrote there! I feel genuinely impressed – not only by your capacity to articulate this but because I’ve used a near version of this speech (some words moderated) and no man who liked me ran away because of it! Way to go!! Love, Sami

  252.  #253Azure Blu on October 21, 2015 at 7:09 am

    Mmmmm… when reading what you wrote…
    yes i too think it sounds like coming from your head
    not your heart…
    needing more…soft… warm…

    I know… about 6 months ago when Spirit was being flaky (we had been exclusive for 2 months)

    I shared with him that I was wanting a relationship
    where we called or text regularly,
    we saw each other several times a week
    and we slept together at least once a week…
    He responded that “Yes, we should talk about this sometime soon.”
    He disappeared for 2 months…
    Of course I was hearbroken!!!!

    When he returned I was Cding…. etc…
    I was a warm invitation… we did talk about his disappearing etc…

    But ultimately he was doing all the things I had
    told him I wanted in a relationship without me saying another word about it!!
    it felt sooo good.

    I believe it is important they hear what we want…
    Sooo when/if they are ready they can give us these things…
    cause, if they’re like me, I CANT guess what THEY want!!

  253.  #254Millie on October 21, 2015 at 7:58 am

    Indigo— your mom makes a great point there!!! I think in this case it’s not just being rejected by him… Because I don’t want a romantic relationship with him, it’s him throwing away the friendship… Which makes me feel like it was never strong. A true friend wouldn’t do that and I thought he was. But he’s doing what he is supposed to do…stepping up for his woman. That’s what a masculine man should choose to do so I can fault him for that, but I can say that I don’t deserve to be on the other end of the stick. It’s painful yes, but I totally understand why this is happening. Casualties occur on the road to getting what you want. He’s on that road now, and I’m a casualty. Because the bigger picture is worth it. And the same is for me, this friendship is a casualty towards a larger goal that is not on my horizon yet.

    It’s hard for me to wrap my head around the abandonment issues you suggest. Can you explain that more?? Rejection issues absolutely. Especially because so many men have not chosen me. There is always something more important, better, than me. It is hard to swallow when someone you care about treats you in that manner, just like the rest. But this has been coming…. I remember a few months ago posting about he undermined our friendship. Maybe it always meant more to me than it did to him, which is usually the case because the rivers run deeper for me.

  254.  #255Lilybelly on October 21, 2015 at 8:21 am


    Does anyone believe the Universe will reveal to you all you need to know without you having to search for it? And, does it wait until you are strong enough, healthy enough to handle whatevet it is? Whatever the truth is?

    Thoughts most welcome.

  255.  #256Azure Blu on October 21, 2015 at 8:33 am

    Millie #251
    For me… a lot of what you are going thru
    are lessons we all learn as we get older…
    We have such innocent hearts,
    How can we know allllll there is to life?
    and What solutions work for you?

    I learned about male friendships and how I
    wanted to handle them when I was in my early 30s

    All these men who said they only wanted to be friends (when i expressed to them that was all *I* wanted)
    When actually they wanted MORE and
    often came between me and men who wanted
    to marry me and be my forever man…
    So I am not keen on men being my friends…
    and they will disappear when they get girlfriends (as they should)

    How can we know About what men are all about
    and what kind of relationship would feel good to you…???
    What your POP is (purpose on this planet)
    Who *YOU* are,,,
    Be gentle on YOU… sweet, darling siren,
    These are life’s lessons
    and you are WAY ahead of the curve if
    you are working with Rori tools!!!

  256.  #257Indigo on October 21, 2015 at 8:56 am


    I’m not sure if the abandonment fears pertain to you… they often go hand in hand with the rejection fears. But you would need to feel through this and see what your fears and triggers are.

    I have learnt that men are extremely simple creatures. Likely he was not intentionally rejecting you – it was simply that, as you have understood, he is now in a relationship and that needs to be his focus. There is no question that he was putting sexual and romantic interest towards you even though he was your friend – he absolutely was. Now that he is involved with someone else, all of that falls by the wayside. It is no more complicated than that. Men who say they want to be our friends… well, I agree with Azure Blu. They do and they don’t, but the majority definitely do not see friendship with us the way we see it with them. I have only 2 genuine good guy friends, and even they distance themselves quite a bit when either they I or they are involved. Men are simple creatures. They simply cannot handle more. Please do not take it personally or as a sign of rejection.

  257.  #258Azure Blu on October 21, 2015 at 9:40 am

    Indigo #254
    I totally agree!!

  258.  #259Azure Blu on October 21, 2015 at 9:45 am

    (((Lillybell))) #252
    Sometimes for me, I’ll back way off of searching for lifes answers…
    let go and just live…
    and other times… I’ll consistently pick away at trying to discover what I think I deserve…
    and other times I go like gangbusters
    Full out push hard for MORE (of whatever)

    there seems to be an ebb and flow
    to our energy, to our searching

    BUT I do know… the Universe only wants
    the VERY best for each of us!!
    even when we’re not even lookin’

  259.  #260Femininewoman on October 21, 2015 at 10:11 am

    Because I don’t want a romantic relationship with him, it’s him throwing away the friendship… Which makes me feel like it was never strong.

    Millie the energy behind the words you choose and the perspective you take affect the meanings you attach to the experience. Just about every man I know tends to either naturally pull away from a girl they had in the past when they start connect to the one they have chosen. I have known women who required the guy to do it and eventually the relationship did not work out. If it is accepted as a masculine way or quirk then essentially it is like the guy is wired to operate that way. He can’t help himself. Thinking it was not strong is just your brain thinking. Also what defines a strong relationship anyway. Anything strong can be broken. It is what it is.

  260.  #261Zara on October 21, 2015 at 10:15 am

    Lilybelly 252

    I believe I know all I need to know. How do I know that is all I need to know? Because that is all I know.

    I believe I don’t need to know what I don’t know. How do I know I don’t need to know what I don’t know? Because I don’t know it, I don’t even know what it is that I don’t know. I don’t even know there is anything else I should know. That’s how peaceful Universe wants me to feel. It frees me from even knowing that I don’t know what I don’t know.

    I also believe I am always able to experience (rather than handle) everything. Unless I die. Which then frees me from experiencing anything as I know it here in this life.
    So either I keep alive which means I am busy experiencing absolutely everything coming at me. Sick or healthy, in alignment with myself or unaware, I am “experiencing”.
    Or I die and then I become busy “experiencing” my new energetical form.

    We don’t need to know what we don’t know (if there is anything else to know) in order to chose to look at what’s coming to us from a perspective that makes us feel good.
    There is only 2 ways to experience myself.
    One is wishing I knew better and feeling unhappy with what is and the other is trusting what is to be as “should” be and feeling happy to experience myself regardless of what comes to me.

    My choice.


  261.  #262Dominique on October 21, 2015 at 11:03 am

    Lilybelly – What a wonderful question!!! I think maybe the Universe has all the answers for you right there waiting for you to reach out for, to have and to hold. You maybe need to reach a level of awareness to see what it is you are seeking, and these levels come and various time, when you’re ready to accept them, integrate them.


  262.  #263Lilybelly on October 21, 2015 at 11:16 am


    I’m feeling a bit dense.. lol

    I am seeking truth, literally, and all the asking and reaching out to the Uni isn’t providing the truth, as i seek to know it. Which is why, I wonder if it is waiting for me to be ready, whatever the answer is..

    I feel confused in my asking and feel certain that there is a tug of war going on inside of me. I honestly don’t feel strongly, one way or the other.

    I do know that the path would be clear though, by knowing, one way or the other. If this is happening, then I shall do this… type of clear.

  263.  #264Lilybelly on October 21, 2015 at 11:29 am


    This felt so peaceful..”trusting what is to be as it should.”

    It causes me to feel, if only for a moment at a time, the Universe has my back.. always.


  264.  #265Indigo on October 21, 2015 at 11:30 am


    I’m not sure if this is what you are asking, but I do know that there have been times when I couldn’t see the answer because I wasn’t ready to accept it yet. And this is more than fine. I trust in the timing of things. I trust that when I need to know, I will know. There have been problems in my life that seemed to have no answers, but with enough time, the answers came. Or they resolved themselves. The temptation is always to want to know more than we know, to see more than what is in front of us. But in my experience, life just doesn’t work that way.

  265.  #266Dominique on October 21, 2015 at 12:27 pm

    Lilybelly – I don’t know if the path is ever truly clear as in an – yep this is where I need to go, and this is what I need to know. Yet in your choices, maybe there is some of this running quietly underground. For in every choice, no matter how it feels, there is something to be experienced, something maybe to learn.

    My experience of life is that it feels confusing much of the time. lol Yes there is so much beauty and love, and it’s there for you to revel in at any time, yet there is also the rest which can weigh heavily sometimes. Some of it is stuff coming to the surface. And some of it just is.

    I don’t always have words for my lessons. And I try not to spend too much time dwelling on them. I try instead to turn my attention to what feels better/good if only a little. I try to trust that I’m exactly where I’m supposed to be, where my higher, wiser self (or the Universe) thinks I would gain the most/learn the most all the while seeking out what makes me feel peaceful, serene, loving and lovely.


  266.  #267Zara on October 21, 2015 at 1:06 pm

    Hello Victoria,

    I again find it hard to say “I don’t feel cherished by you”
    I would not say that either.
    It is not in the speech I would give a man in the first post.
    And in the second post, “I don’t feel cherished” is what is written. (No “by you”)

    It is my feeling. I don’t know if he is responsable for my not feeling cherished. I can only speak of me. If he naturally cherishes me, he will find a way, or not, to contaminate me with his feeling. For the moment I don’t feel in alignment with letting him in my body. I have to focus on cherishing myself first, given that I don’t feel cherished.

    Asking a man for reliable conctact seems like a very needy thing for me to do… How can you say that in a not needy way?
    I don’t ask a man for a reliable contact.
    He does what he does. And I let him move onto me or I say I don’t feel open to share whatever he wants to share.
    Then again, he does what he does.
    Again I welcome him as he is or I stop him.

    I don’t want to change a man. I keep opened to my own feelings and I share them until I meet the man naturally wanting to call me every day (if that is what I need), because it makes him happy to call me. A man naturally wanting to do whatever I need to feel opened to a relationship with him. A man inspired from his own heart to cherish me in a way that speaks to me. It’s called a match.

    Until I meet him, I keep practicing choosing my words with the men I meet. Men who self eliminate by not acting in a way that speaks to me.

    Along the way, I might meet a man who does not use my love language but whose love language may keep me interested enough that I consider him as a match to create the relationship I want. In any case, if I consider him as a possibility, it is as he is.


  267.  #268Femininewoman on October 21, 2015 at 2:54 pm

    I feel like saying if it is clear then there is no real experiencing.

  268.  #269April Rose on October 21, 2015 at 4:02 pm


    I had a conversation with a beautiful man the other night, a deep emotional man, an actor who moved me deeply to tears and to laughter in his one-man play.

    I remained in a vulnerable feeling state after the show. Later we spoke and he said something to me… “The head is full of questions for which there are no answers. And the heart is full of answers for which there are no questions.”

  269.  #270BeLoved on October 21, 2015 at 6:23 pm

    Azure Blu – TG and I did not have a relationship other than living together as roommates. It seemed we were getting close at first, and then he got triggered or whatever and started shutting down and literally building walls in the house. The day I met him, I felt this huge wave of relaxation wash over me, and I noticed some feelings of “old friend” and thoughts about “Oh, YOU, it’s YOU!” as if I recognized him from long ago. I have practiced lots of leaning back, and sinking into my feelings every time my mind would start to ‘go there’ with him. I felt a fondness for him, and, at this point, I feel neutral.

    Today I was talking with a friend about the situation and telling him some of the things TG has been doing that I feel baffled by. K says, “Oh, BeLoved, he’s foolish is what it is. He’s a fool, plain and simple, and you really don’t need to be living with a fool. I know that isn’t what you want.” It rang true…I felt an “a-ha” kind of feeling. And it’s true! I don’t want a foolish man.
    My feelings for him have run their course. I feel so indifferent to him and feel DONE. I have no desire to maintain a friendship with him or stay in touch, it feels complete and finished. I feel so whole and grounded right now.


  270.  #271Turquoise on October 21, 2015 at 7:30 pm

    I wish there was a like button on here. 🙂

  271.  #272Emerson on October 21, 2015 at 9:00 pm

    hello Sirens!
    I have been setting intentions daily, and it REALLY helps a lot in forming my day the way I want it to be….it’s really interesting that the day I was in a rush and didn’t do it, I had a mishap at work.


    Well anyway…I have a very important meeting tomorrow and intend to be successful and calm and confident!!!

  272.  #273Indigo on October 21, 2015 at 9:54 pm

    Zara 264,

    I really like this:
    “A man naturally wanting to do whatever I need to feel opened to a relationship with him. A man inspired from his own heart to cherish me in a way that speaks to me. It’s called a match.”

    I have come to the same conclusion recently. In my experience, this is the kind of union which has longevity and lasts. Because it allows a deep bond of mutual connection and desire to take place. I think this is the easy, effortless feeling that Dominique and others talk about.

    I was watching a video yesterday about opened and closed doors which was sent to me. It was so what I needed to see. Such a simple message really – but so true. If a door closes, accept it, don’t try to force it open. Be grateful for it, it was not meant for you. Something better is on its way. Don’t fight the things which are not a fit for you.

  273.  #274Heartbeat on October 21, 2015 at 11:23 pm

    Today I had a wonderful reminder of just how good it feels to have masculine energy sent into your space and just how exciting and delicious it feels to be surprised by all the wonderful forms masculine energy can take!

    I’m sitting in the kitchen at my Grandmother’s house when I hear a deep grunting sound. I open the side door to look out and there’s a big male koala making his way up a Eucalyptus tree.
    He climbs, claws making soft scratching sounds against the bark. He pauses and calls. It’s a mating call and I feel amazed at how noticeable male it sounds. Deep boarish grunts that grate and I feel awed by how the deep sound resonates in the air. He climbs some more and calls again. Finally he settles in the fork of the tree. I stand on the veranda with my camera and say to him, “Hello Sweetie, I feel so happy to see you, you sound so strong”. He looks at me and holds still long enough for me to snap some wonderful shots.
    Later on I go out to check the mail and discover that I can see him from a different angle from the front yard. I get my camera, come back, standing on a small hill mound and call out, “Hey honey, how’s it going?” He looks up at me sleepily, slowly shifts his body around and climbs up to the next fork. He then turns his body to face me. He lifts his chin and calls, his grunts just as deep but gentler and more soothing than earlier. I let the camera drop with my arm and I just watch. I feel wonderful and vital and calm. I feel acknowledged and healthy strong masculine energy suddenly feels abundant in the world. Nature.
    I look at the soft fur under his chin and the way he closes his eyes to call to the sky, I feel his sounds float through me and kiss the tree tops. Eventually he lowers himself gently onto his belly and snuggles against the tree limb, falling back into soft slumber.

    I feel affectionate and sunny. I feel thrilled to be female. I feel delighted to be in the world. I feel open and my feelings feel rich and special.
    Oh I love this, and I really wanted to share it with you all. Being female is just the bees knees!

  274.  #275Millie on October 22, 2015 at 12:38 am

    253 Azure

    Thank you lovely siren… You are right, how do we know until we know? I guess I wasn’t really thinking… When she asked me how I could possibly think that texting him was appropriate, my true answer was I didn’t think at all.

    Indigo– that’s a good way of looking at it!

    Femininewoman— yeah I guess your right. “Strong” is pretty ambiguous and meaningless at this point.

  275.  #276Victoria on October 22, 2015 at 1:05 am

    I join a bit later, but I also have experienced the same thing as the other sirens – frienships (even between girls) fall by the wayside when someone gets really deep into a romantic relationship.
    Also, with mechanic, it seems to me you were sort of borderline between romantic and friendship, neither here not there. These are the most difficult relationships to sustain.
    By the way, I have been in a situation where I was the girlfriend who had to tell a “friend” that it is inappropriate to call my boyfriend. And, it is is any consolation, I can tell you I was so badly hurt and pissed and I had to do it, I was truly on the verge of ending things with him if he did not choose to cut her out of our life. It is not an enviable position to be in.

  276.  #277Indigo on October 22, 2015 at 2:06 am


    On that note, I also had a close “friend” who used to call, write letters and even visit my boyfriend at the time, and then when we broke up she went on to pursue him for a short-lived fling. She was so desperate that I not find out about it, but of course I did. I still count it as one of the biggest betrayals of my life.

  277.  #278Victoria on October 22, 2015 at 2:26 am

    Let me share another story.
    Many years ago, there was a guy who was romantically interested in me, but he had dated a friend of mine, so I did not allow anything to happen (also he was a great guy but for some strange reason I had no chemistry with him). He then started dating another girl, and because I really liked him I loved hanging out with him, I tagged along with him and the girl a few times but I was feeling like a 5th wheel. Then, once I got a boyfriend, we went out a few times, and I was very impressed that he always called my boyfriend (and not me) to hang out , and was much friendlier to him than with me. I was kind of jealous at the time, but now, from the distance of time I see he truly wanted to preserve our friendship and was trying the best he could. He is one of the very few men I regret not having a relationship with, he would have made a great husband. (He did of course, to that same girl).

  278.  #279Indigo on October 22, 2015 at 2:52 am

    Victoria, yeah 🙂

    That is a great story. There are few men like that, but I also have a close guy friend who is a true friend. He will always give both his relationship and my relationship the distance and space it deserves if either of us are involved, and always goes to the nth degree to make both my boyfriend and his girlfriend feel included. He really knows the meaning of friendship and he is a genuine friend to me, not someone hanging on hoping for anything else. We both value our friendship for what it is. He is a person of rare transparency and integrity and character. I have no romantic feelings towards him at all though he is a great guy in all ways – including very good looking, and he’ll make a wonderful partner for someone one day.

  279.  #280Azure Blu on October 22, 2015 at 4:47 am

    Beloved #267
    thank you for sharing your journey with TG.
    Ahh yes, the gentle closing of that door…

    There will be more spectacular things
    coming your way, as you open the next door
    and continue living YOUR
    Did you meet your birth sister yet?

  280.  #281Femininewoman on October 22, 2015 at 10:06 am

    Bees Knees??

    Heartbeat you are so poetic. That was such a wonderful read I felt like I was experiencing it with you. You are looking at the world through the eyes of abundance and it feels so peaceful.

  281.  #282Femininewoman on October 22, 2015 at 10:14 am

    I so know what you mean. I had one who I haven’t spoken to in two months kinda telling me off this morning. I had kinda felt turned off by him so I stopped reaching out, sharing and deeply interacting with him even when he is the one reaching out to me and I guess he is missing my energy. He kept on saying we have been such good friends and had such a great relationship and he was assuming that after he explained himself we were back to normal. I have felt though that we were like two bulls fighting sometimes and the energy would feel so draining because he makes everything about him. He wasn’t even hearing that I had pretty pulled away because of things going on in my own life and with my family. He was just so angry that I “had seen him recently and had not spoken to him” that he could not hear me telling him I had not even seen him.

  282.  #283Femininewoman on October 22, 2015 at 10:15 am

    Emerson did you read about the wonder woman pose?

  283.  #284Daria on October 22, 2015 at 11:03 am

    the Vagus nerve, yes I was working a lot with that…

    and now im in such a different place with this mental illness

    thanks for the reminder

  284.  #285Azure Blu on October 22, 2015 at 11:04 am

    I love the Wonder woman Pose…
    I’ve told many people about it…
    Some think I’m quite odd when I show them…
    BUT I LOVE IT!!!

  285.  #286Azure Blu on October 22, 2015 at 11:07 am

    Ahhh nature stories from Australia…
    Mmmm… love it…

    Thanxs for sharing your morning with Siren Island!

  286.  #287Zara on October 22, 2015 at 11:23 am

    248: Victoria says:

    *****The more I think about this, the more I think I would say “Hey, we had s*x because I like you and we have a lot of chemistry, but then the other day you did not call when you said you would, and you are kind of shady about seeing me again, but now you come and ask for s*x again, and I kind of have a bad taste in my mouth from the last experience because of how you acted after we had s*x and I would really like to avoid feeling like that, what do you think”.
    Oh sh*t, this comes out accusatory…*****

    *****“Hey, we had s*x because I like you and we have a lot of chemistry”*****
    Words following the word “because” might keep the truth blurry. “I” (whoever “I” is ) don’t know the deepest mechanism of my psyche who lead me to have s*x with that man in that moment. I can use all explanations that come to the surface, I still can’t be sure that my perspective right now as I am giving an explanation is in alignment with what actually happened inside me back in that moment. It’s like when “I” explain my present actions by describing my parents how I “think” they were 20 years ago. It sounds like coming from a powerless place, a victim feeling place, a “feeling sorry for what I did and I can’t own it” place.

    > “I” had s*x just because . As a feminine energy, I don’t need to give explanations. I own it and don’t give up my power into explanations or justifications.

    *****“We had s*x”***** is the past. I own it. I move on.

    > I can translate into my present truth with “I feel attracted to you and I like you” if it is the truth at the moment I am speaking. If I don’t feel attracted, I don’t say anything about it. I let go of it.

    *****but then the other day you did not call when you said you would, and you are kind of shady about seeing me again*****
    The word “but” here is telling me having sex was a trade against him calling me when he says he would. So here might be the unaware “because” of having sex with him. I was paying with my body an unspoken deal with a stranger that tied him to call me when he says he would and to be firm in his intention to see me again.

    > I don’t expect strangers to owe me anything after I shared a few moments with them. I keep elegant and opened to them going back to their life. I am aware we tell people “I’ll give you a call” and life happens. We do call them a couple of days later than we said. Such is life among strangers. I keep opened to him being one more stranger swirling around. It is what it is. He is not shady. His lack of continuity and reliability is speaking clearly. He is clear about swirling rather than crashing to my feet.
    He is a stranger to me. I have other strangers and friends and family and work to attend to. He swirling around is not meant to destabilise my world. It’s just a wink from Universe.

    > I can translate it with : “and I realised having s*x puts me in a state of expectations which feels uncomfortable. I don’t want to feel uncomfortable.”

    *****but now you come and ask for s*x again*****
    like he comes to a shop and ask for a good and does not show his payment for it? The unspoken payment I want in exchange for sex? His regular calls and visits?

    > I would not suggest into the man’s mind that I am a victim from whom he can steal a good for free.

    > It is up to me to either change my perspective of it (like we shared sexual moments, no payments involved. I am so desirable, he can’t stop himself from desiring me) or/and to stop it all together.

    > I can translate it to “I feel flattered by your desire”

    *****and I kind of have a bad taste in my mouth from the last experience*****
    ( Giggle 🙂 I won’t write the pun that comes to mind. I skip point 4 😉 )

    ****because of how you acted after we had s*x*****
    This takes me back to point 2, already worked on. I skip point 5.
    I also note the use of “because”. Takes me back to point 1. Am I trying to blur the truth?

    > Is the bad taste coming from the man’s personality or is it coming from my own mouth? Did the man sign a deal and abuse it? Or did I abuse myself into believing there even was a deal?

    *****and I would really like to avoid feeling like that, what do you think*****
    A man accused of letting the woman with a bad taste in the mouth after their sexual encounter, might think she does not like him. If she does not like him and she would really like to avoid feeling the way he makes her feel, he might wonder why does not she just stop meeting him or stop having sex with him.

    > It’s up to me to stop abusing myself into imagining unwritten unspoken deal with strangers.

    > I can translate it into “I don’t feel comfortable having sex so soon in the process of getting to know each other. I don’t want to do it again.”


    >>>I feel attracted to you and I like you. I feel flattered by your desire and I don’t feel comfortable having sex so soon in the process of getting to know each other. I don’t want to not feel comfortable with you.<<<


  287.  #288Azure Blu on October 22, 2015 at 12:41 pm

    Mmmm… yes, I do like this and your thoughtful
    explanations and sharing your insights…
    food for thought!

  288.  #289April Rose on October 22, 2015 at 2:08 pm

    Ha ha

    I love the way you think and write, Zara. Gives clear words to things I kind of ‘know’ but can’t articulate yet.

    ” He is clear about swirling rather than crashing to my feet.”

    Brilliant imagery to remind me that a man is showing so much by his actions. And I choose whether it is what I want. Or not.

    I have been angry and frustrated at a man for not being and doing what I want. Rather, I should forgive myself for hoping that he was something that he is not.

  289.  #290April Rose on October 22, 2015 at 2:14 pm

    It’s a question of time. I’m in such a hurry. which ends up slowing things down.

    There’s chemistry. There’s attraction. I like this man. I secretly wonder if he is the one. Then I begin to hope it is so. Then I think ‘yes’. All too soon!!

    His actions speak loudly. And because they are not the actions I think my beloved would make, I become restless, wondering how best to get him to perform the right actions.

    It is at THIS point where I could make a different choice. Pull back on my investment, perhaps. Take a deep breath and realise I may need to expand my horizons, and accept that my beloved is still at large in the world.

    I would like to find a tool which helps overcome that “Oh no, back to the beginning” feeling of weariness.

  290.  #291Lilybelly on October 22, 2015 at 2:55 pm

    I feel so impressed by how self aware you all are.

    I’m working on it.

    Thank you all for the input to my pondering yesterday. Many of your thoughts, I am taking in.

  291.  #292Zara on October 22, 2015 at 4:58 pm

    April Rose

    I know the feeling…
    It’s created by the lie we think: “Oh, no! Back to the beginning!”
    There is no such thing as back to the beginning.
    The actual man is self-eliminating himself. One more down. You got one less experience to do before your beloved meets you. You are one man closer to the relationship you want.
    I can translate to : “Oh, yes! On and forward closer to love!” “One more thing I learnt about me and men and that I won’t have to go through again!”

    It applies both when left and when leaving.
    It’s all the same. Each break up updates me. Like my computer. It keeps downloading updates while it’s on, yet the updates do not apply until I actually turn it off then turn it on a new session.


  292.  #293Emerson on October 22, 2015 at 5:44 pm

    280 yes fw I did! I will go back and read it again ! Love it!

  293.  #294Millie on October 22, 2015 at 8:06 pm

    Feeling very triggered at the moment… Feeling rejected by men I don’t know. Men who reach out, who don’t continue talking, I stand there wanting to stay but say goodbye anyway because they are. The awkwardness… How I feel icy and caught in my throat… Hurt… Remembering… Unable to let to and trust… Angry that they let me walk away… Not chasing after me…I feel stiff trying not to feel hurt.

  294.  #295BeLoved on October 22, 2015 at 8:17 pm

    Oh…I feel so excited and shaky!
    I’m practicing the tools diligently, and using FM’s to myself and the universe. Noticing how scared I feel and how it’s affecting my thinking.
    Just now had an interaction with TG that initially had me feeling all like the rug was about to be pulled out from under my feet..and I stopped, I breathed. How would I respond if I felt confident, certain, sure, powerful?
    I responded from THAT place…and turns out I flat out wasn’t hearing straight because the fear was distorting my perception. And he and I worked out a deal for some stuff that feels good and light and happy.

    I also withdrew from doing the sound design for the next play and feel MASSIVELY relieved. One thing I realized, is how little real, relaxing fun I have been allowing myself and seeing how that is actually hindering me in my career. It took about 24 hours to really let it be OK that I withdrew and enjoy the free time I have now.

    I feel so happy and grateful right now.

  295.  #296Zia on October 22, 2015 at 11:11 pm

    Hello ladies! So it looks like I’m having a boy 🙂 My 5 year old really wanted a baby brother so he’s super happy!!

  296.  #297Victoria on October 23, 2015 at 12:45 am

    I really love the final product, it sounds elegant and not needy:
    “I feel attracted to you and I like you. I feel flattered by your desire and I don’t feel comfortable having sex so soon in the process of getting to know each other. I don’t want to not feel comfortable with you.”
    However, there are several things in the preceding analysis that do not hold true to me, namely
    – that I don’t know why I had s*x with the man. Of course I know.
    – that I do not expect reliability in my interactions with a man. I absolutely expect reliability, I would not sleep with him unless I thought he would be reliable. I certainly do not think of him as a stranger, I would never sleep with him if he was a stranger.
    – It is kind of obvious that I feel attracted to the man, if I wasn’t, I would not be seeing him at all.
    – it is not true for me that I do not feel comfortable sleeping with a man early in the process of getting to know each other. I am absolutely clear in my mind that I do not get attached to a man through s*x, and that the part I am not ok with is with him keeping me hanging on or acting shady.
    – I do not really feel particularly flattered by a man’s desire to have s*x with me. I am a very attractive woman, I assume men who ask me out have s*x on their mind.
    To cut a long story short, I would go no contact if I feel his being shady on me. Too many men, too little time.

  297.  #298Indigo on October 23, 2015 at 1:03 am


    I relate to where you are coming from. Feel very similarly to you. The only part about your perspective which doesn’t apply to me is not getting attached through sex. I DO get attached through sex (sometimes, not all the time), and I often find out too late that I have formed an attachment to an inappropriate man, then I am cross with myself for having sex with him.

    That said, I don’t need to feel someone is long term or husband material in order to date them or sleep with them. Some guys I know right from the beginning are not husband potential. I am ok with dating them or sleeping with them if I am not in a committed relationship with someone I DO see as husband material, knowing that it will only be short-term.

    Like you, I do expect people and guys to keep their word, and I do expect safety and reliability in order to feel comfortable continuing to see them, much less sleep with them. I cut out people who have no reliability very quickly out of my life. As far as sex and men goes, it is very much an instinctive, organic decision as to whether it feels right. I’m not really the kind of person who can work it out clinically beforehand and deliver a speech… for me it’s more a case of, what can I live with.

  298.  #299Indigo on October 23, 2015 at 1:05 am

    All of this said, I am feeling that my ability to have sex with someone whom I don’t see as “special” has gone WAY down. Or I should say my desire to do this has gone way down. As I said, it’s a feeling-based decision.

  299.  #300Victoria on October 23, 2015 at 2:04 am

    What I mean by not getting attached through s*x is that I am able to evaluate the experience and possibly enjoy it without messing up with how I feel/think about whether we are a good match in other ways.

  300.  #301Azure Blu on October 23, 2015 at 3:47 am

    Congratulations on having a boy!!!
    2 boys now….

    Ahhh… I did so enjoy raising my boy…
    there were only girls in my household growing up
    my mother was an only child…
    It was such a learning curve to see how different boys were from girls…
    From the moment he was born I felt the masculine energy from him…
    My first child was a girl… so light, energetic and feminine…
    His first cry was deep and robust…
    I have learned (continue to learn) much about men having this
    strong, exquisite son in my life!!

  301.  #302Island Girl on October 23, 2015 at 10:07 am

    Hi I am new here and wanting some help! Just making sure before I leave a longer post that this is the best way / place to do it…

    Thank you!

    PS What a lovely supportive group you are

  302.  #303Zara on October 23, 2015 at 10:23 am

    Victoria said:
    *****To cut a long story short, I would go no contact if I feel his being shady on me. Too many men, too little time.*****

    And yet you wrote to him a long message with the story of your sexual encounter, accusations of beings shady, and you ended your message to him by “what do you think?” . Which implies you are asking for more contact.

    Anyway, when I feel disconnection from a man, I let go of the man, I keep grounded in my life.

    According to the circumstances, I may express the disconnection with a feeling message WHEN HE CONTACTS ME. Although if I am not in my body at the moment he contacts me, I might still use the “you” formula coming from my head. Oh! Well! I keep practicing taking it back to myself where it belongs. It feels soft and grounded. I do my best to pamper my feminine. My life is about ME. My feeling messages are pampering ME.
    The feeling message might shift the energy and reconnect us or it may not. In any case, it keeps me grounded. It brings clarity in my heart about myself.

    In other circumstances, other type of men/disconnections, I don’t pick up the phone when it rings. No contact.

    It depends how I feel. It also depends if I want to practice choosing my words and if there is still a lesson to learn.

    In any case, my life is about me. I don’t know if a man is shady. That feels judgmental, and none of my business, and does not participate in my feeling good.
    What I know is I feel disconnected. I want everyday calls (not me, Zara. Personally, the number of phone calls is not a criteria for the quality of the connection). Whatever my wants, these are my wants with no judgment of the man who does no fit with my wants. Judging him and calling him names would feel to me like judging a peg for not fitting a hole.

    *****– I do not really feel particularly flattered by a man’s desire to have s*x with me. I am a very attractive woman, I assume men who ask me out have s*x on their mind.*****

    All women on this planet are desired by men. It is in our built for the good of our specie’s reproduction. All women are attractive to men. Feeling flattered does not mean “I am unattractive, I should feel grateful to that man for picking me.”
    It means “Thank you for acknowledging my value. I acknowledge yours too.” If I don’t see the value of a man, I don’t date him, hence this conversation does not even take place.
    He shows me I am his choice by asking me out. He is in his peacock state. I acknowledge he took the risk of rejection, I honour the masculine bravery by saying “I feel flattered” before I place my ” NO” to mating. My feminine respects his masculine with elegance while at the same time firmly respecting my boundaries.
    An iron hand within a velvet glove is the french expression.

    Anyway, if you feel more grounded saying “now you come to ask for sex again” than when saying “I feel flattered” , then keep doing what works best for you.

    *****– it is not true for me that I do not feel comfortable sleeping with a man early in the process of getting to know each other. I am absolutely clear in my mind that I do not get attached to a man through s*x, and that the part I am not ok with is with him keeping me hanging on or acting shady.*****

    I worked strictly on your own words. Hence I did not refer to attachment given you did not mention attachment in the message you crafted for the man.
    Your message to the man said the same thing you are saying here in your quote: you are not OK with him keeping you hanging on or acting shady.

    It translates into not feeling comfortable.

    Your message to him says him not being reliable changed your sexual experience into a bad feeling one. And since you say you go no contact with “shady” men, I take it you had no idea this man was going to act “shady”. It was too soon to know his character. Not enough time went by to give a chance to evaluate his reliability, and to evaluate your own comfort towards his level of “shadiness”.

    It translates into : “I don’t feel comfortable having sex so soon in the process of getting to know each other. ”

    There is no reference to attachment in that feeling message. It is about sex leaving a bad taste in your mouth after you discover he does not keep dates or whatever.
    When a woman writes she needs reliability from the man or else sex leaves her with a bad taste in the mouth, it seems logical she stops having sex with men before she gets to evaluate their reliability. Unless she likes feeling the bad taste.

    *****– It is kind of obvious that I feel attracted to the man, if I wasn’t, I would not be seeing him at all.*****

    Yes, I thought to myself the same thing when I read your message to the man. It says “Hey, we had s*x because I like you and we have a lot of chemistry,”.

    Anyway, it translates into “I feel attracted to you” and in my feeling message it is not as a justification for having had sex in the past. It is to tell my truth in the moment so the man knows it is not about our chemistry, I am not rejecting him, I am only saying “NO” to his behaviour. My feminine keeps open to his masculine while at the same time not tolerating the behaviour.

    *****– that I do not expect reliability in my interactions with a man. I absolutely expect reliability, I would not sleep with him unless I thought he would be reliable. I certainly do not think of him as a stranger, I would never sleep with him if he was a stranger.*****

    I expect reliability in the relationship I want to create. I don’t expect anything from a stranger met on a dating site or just recently introduced to me by friends. I give time to time for his qualities to reveal. He is who he is. I feel curious about him. He does what he does. I did not meet him to judge him and change him.

    He does not keep the connection going? He does not do what he said he would? => I stop meeting him.

    Now, when by chance, my dates’ behaviour fit with my expectations of what a friendship and a romantic relationship should feel like, then I keep open to meeting them again and again. I try as much as I can to not project on my dates my expectations. Projection leads to jump in with both feet to end feeling a bad taste in the mouth when we discover his reliability was not real but only a projection of our expectations.

    It takes a long time to evaluate a person’s reliability when this person is on his best behaviour before mating.

    *****I certainly do not think of him as a stranger, I would never sleep with him if he was a stranger.******

    And yet you had no idea he was not reliable. You say yourself :”I would not sleep with him unless I thought he would be reliable.”

    I know we never totally know someone. After 40 years of marriage there is still a part of stranger that one spouse ignores about the other.
    But let’s keep it simple. There is a minimum we can know about a person’s character by allowing time to reveal different traits. A man whose level of reliability is unknown to me is a stranger to me. He is a man I might be interested in getting to know and he is a stranger.

    Some men don’t hide their game. They arrive late on the first date or they forget to come at the second date. Loool right there, I know the behaviour is not fitting the expectations I have for the relationship I want. If only it was so easy to know all men! But other men are good at being on their best behaviour for ages.

    ***** that I don’t know why I had s*x with the man. Of course I know.*****

    May be.
    You wrote it was because you like him and you had chemistry.
    And I believe that you like him and you had chemistry.
    And yet you consider going no contact because he does not call regularly. Surely he looks the same and the chemistry is G*d given, behaviours don’t cancel it. And yet you write a message about having a bad taste in the mouth.

    Sex does not imply attachment on your part you said. Apparently it does not imply attachment on the man’s side since he is “shady” about meeting again and does not call when he says he would. So all is fine, both on the same page. And yet, the bad taste in the mouth.


  303.  #304lisa on October 23, 2015 at 11:15 am

    I hope Rori you can answer this question for me. I looked all over your blog for your rules or what you suggest about your man having female friends.
    In one blog you talk about following up on this topic and also about the specific situation about female coworkers.
    Would you please let me know your thoughts on that?
    Rori you have been such a wonderful help in my relationship and in my healing.
    I have or had a good relationship with my live in boyfriend he’s very attentive and loving .
    When we started our relationship there was no other women he ever contacted he said he preferred to have male friends and didn’t need to contact other women.
    He started working at a new job
    And a week after he messages a girl he works with “how have you been i haven’t seen you.”
    I got really upset.
    We had a fight a really bad fight i have to admit though we were having many issues prior to this message.
    That got solved and i apologized for overreacting and i chose to believe that he wasn’t interested and that it was simply was a message as he put it.

    I let him know (maybe i am wrong) that it made me feel hurt that he didnt tell me he had made female friends, and by him messaging her it made me feel even more weird.
    Anyway so we agreed that he could have friends but that he would let me know who they were. So that i wouldn’t feel so crazy(maybe that also shows I’m insecure but i would rather him be honest than me just discovering he’s messaging other women).
    Fast forward to now we were in bed having a really nice time when his phone rings two hours before work.
    And he looks very suspicious.
    He looks at his phone and gets up and a acts weird.
    So i ask who it was and why he was acting so weird,
    He said its no one and i replied if its no one why did you get up from bed and act this way.
    So basically a new girl from his job messaged him but he put her name in his contacts as a male name contact. She suggested a way to get to the job faster in the text.
    He confessed and i said i needed space because he hid this from me.
    He later texted me and said “i am really sorry i should’ve told you it s up to you what happens next in our relationship” (Which sounds like he’s giving up already)
    And I replied ” I don’t feel like being in a relationship with a man that hides things from me” Which i did feel at the time.
    He said ok.
    And that was it.
    Maybe i was wrong to overreact.
    But why the sudden need to make female friends?!
    It makes me feel really insecure Rori.
    I tried my best to fix this relationship and drop my anger and my craziness really. And i thought we were doing good. But i don’t know if i can accept other women in his life.
    I am dating and feel really happy but confused about my relationship.
    Please let me know your thoughts

  304.  #305Turquoise on October 23, 2015 at 11:26 am

    Oh boy…. I feel like I may be in an imaginary relationship with Knight…. yet it feels so good that I’m not sure I want to walk away. I still don’t know if I believe what he’s said about his finances, or even how well I know the true him yet…. and while I don’t feel ok with being lied to…. if this is all a lie, it feels so heady and I love our conversations so much, I’m wondering if there is a way I can keep it and it be a good thing. Do any of you have CD’s that you see red flags with, yet maybe don’t want to let go?

    When we talk I feel so connected and that everything he shares makes sense and is believeable. Then when I process it later…. I wonder if it’s a game that he’s awfully good at. No sex yet, but we’ve talked about it and I totally want him. But I don’t trust him. Would I ever truly trust a man again? Are my NV’s just on overdrive and he really is a standup guy with the best of intentions? I don’t know… will probably give it some more time to unfold… but I definitely feel a strong attachment. He’s very smart and seems to know a lot about everything. He talks in feeling messages and I wonder if he’s studied what women want to actually be that man… or to be a player. Hmmm…. I wonder.

    Tonight I have plans to see friends, be out in the fresh air.. maybe it will clear my thoughts a bit.

  305.  #306Femininewoman on October 23, 2015 at 12:51 pm

    Congrats dear Zia.

  306.  #307Femininewoman on October 23, 2015 at 12:55 pm

    Turquoise doubt is a normal process that does come up. His will come a little later. Still each moment you will have to choose trust. Trust that as you allow life to unfold Knight will show who he really is. Also let go of the hope, the thought about imaginary relationship try to live from moment to moment. Make it about life and what shows up in front of you. Otherwise it will be imaginary. Each moment choose for that moment. Your mind will drift but you can consciously choose to bring yourself back.

  307.  #308Turquoise on October 23, 2015 at 2:24 pm

    Thank you FW…. He told me that too last night. He said… Honey you have to stop thinking in terms of “I hope” and ” what ifs”
    Just let this happen.

    My oh my… This man is pushing all my buttons. I haven’t felt this interested and intrigued in a really long time. I love love love our long conversations. Now we will just have to see if spending more time together will work out. He’s still figuring out what to do job wise. At least that’s what he says…. I’m not even 100% sure he lost his job. But I can’t figure out why anyone would make that up. He says he’s working for a friend doing demo. for cash under the table because he can’t just sit home and think about everything.
    I’m very impatient. This is good practice for me in that way to…. I’m not used to things going slowly.

  308.  #309T-Girl on October 23, 2015 at 5:12 pm

    Turquoise, are you saying that you are having long conversations but no dates? Is that where the excuses are coming in? That would be a huge red flag to me (I’ve experienced it).

  309.  #310Zara on October 23, 2015 at 8:01 pm

    ***** He talks in feeling messages and I wonder if he’s studied what women want to actually be that man… or to be a player. Hmmm…. I wonder.*****

    Either that or he is a woman with a penis, as Dr. Pat Allen says.
    The masculine energy says “I think” and ask the feminine energy “what do you feel?”
    The feminine energy says :”I feel” and ask the masculine energy “what do you think?”.


  310.  #311Turquoise on October 23, 2015 at 8:12 pm

    T-Girl, we had two dates a couple weeks ago. He works nights, so weekends were only option. Then he was in an accident, so couldn’t get together, ok… But then the following weekend he lost his job and didn’t want to do anything, was really upset. We shall see what this weekend brings. If there are no dates, I’m telling him I’m going to start seeing other people again. He wanted exclusivity right away. So yes those are big things that happened… Or they were big lies/ excuses.

  311.  #312Zara on October 23, 2015 at 8:15 pm


    I agree with Femininewoman 302.
    Do you know about the Good Night Talk? If this man is not a player, shifting the energy on the phone might make him come to you.


  312.  #313Millie on October 23, 2015 at 8:35 pm

    I totally wanted to hook up with this guy I met accidentally for the second time. It was such a coincidence.. And it seemed he wanted to too but was with friends… I do t know. Life is disappointing sometimes.

  313.  #314Indigo on October 24, 2015 at 12:51 am


    I’d like to share my thoughts on your situation, because it reminds me a lot of my situation with Bush Boy at the moment. However, I don’t get the feeling that Bush Boy is untrustworthy or playing a game.

    I would like to suggest that the fact that you are questioning Knight’s integrity is a sign that you have got invested far too soon. I know because this happened to me, and it is fairly classic behaviour that Rori talks about when she talks about why women get angry with men. Bush Boy cancelled a date because of a family event, and in the moment it felt as if my whole world fell apart. I had built the date up in my mind for days and had been looking forward to it so unbelievably much that I had made virtually no other plans for the weekend. Luckily I had the chance to talk it all out with my mom, and with clarity and a few days of just processing what had happened, I saw that I had become far too invested in this guy. Bush Boy himself helped me to see this with something he said, and this is what I suggest Knight is doing when he tells you to stop thinking in terms of hopes and what ifs and just let it happen. This is very typical of the way men see things, especially this early on, and I think you could benefit from some of this thinking.

    Fact is, you have only had 2 dates with this guy… regardless of what he’s said, or what your feelings are, it is far too soon to promise exclusivity or to feel this interested or invested. You say you are not ready to let this go yet and I hear you… Bush Boy has moved away but I am not ready to let it go either, I want to see what happens. From my experience the way to do that and the way to deal with this is to scale your investment way, way back. You don’t need to do drama, there is no need to tell him you are going to be dating others. Just lean back from him, allow the space to happen and live your life. Just see what he does, allow him to contact you if he will, or to set up time together if he will. Just observe him. In the meanwhile, focus back on your life and try not to think about him if he’s not in front of you.

    In my situation, I know Bush Boy is dealing with his new job and move at the moment – aside from having a lot on his plate, I know that this is the time men typically take psychologically to determine what they feel and what they want and to deal with their doubts. So I am expecting him to pull away and I don’t take it personally. I’m doing my thing and living my life and I’ll see what happens. I’m just going to be patient.

  314.  #315Turquoise on October 24, 2015 at 6:03 am

    Thanks Indigo…. That was good for me to read. And you are right, I am questioning his integrity. I decided totaled FW’s advice to choose trust and take it moment by moment. He called late last night and we talked for almost an hour. We were talking about plans for today and I said my daughter had a date and he asked if I wanted him to come check him out. Then he said you can tell him her dad is away, but my boyfriend needs to talk to you. My response was something about “my boyfriend huh? With a chuckle. He said he didn’t want to assume and I responded with something about it being the first time he’s said that. I was really tired, I don’t remember exactly. But it felt warm to hear him say that. Not sure yet what our plans are for today, he’s going to call me.
    I spent last evening at the high school football game with friends, one of which is a single dad. He came and sat beside me and we talked for about an hour and then he was texting me last night. It was mostly about our kids and their activities…. But like heartbeat said…. It was just nice to be reminded of masculine energy. I noticed some men around me looking at me…. Hard to miss me in my pink coat lol. I just smiled and then looked away. This morning I am going to scrub and de clutter my house. Housework always helps keep my mind off men. Just turn up the music, and dance around the house making it all pretty. I need to do some decorating also. Now… To just get out of bed and start my day!!
    Happy Saturday sirens!!

  315.  #316Turquoise on October 24, 2015 at 6:06 am

    Thank you Zara, I’ll look that up. I don’t know the goodnight talk

  316.  #317Zara on October 24, 2015 at 8:01 am

    Copy-pasted from: How To Talk To A Man On The Phone
    By Rori Raye

    One of the most useless things we women do is talk about business on the phone at night with a man we’d like to love.

    Try this instead.

    He calls, the phone rings, you pick up, say “Hi.”

    His voice is on the other end. “Hi,” he says.

    “Oh,” you say, “It feels so good to hear your voice.” Notice the word feel in there.

    He says, “Oh…….Yeah, it’s great to hear yours, too,” (or something like that.)


    If he doesn’t speak, you don’t speak.

    But you do some other important things. Put down the kitchen stuff, stop puttering in your office, pick up the kitty, and settle down into a soft chair, kitty on your lap. (If you don’t have an accommodating cat, use a pillow, a stuffed animal, or your own leg – you’ll need it to pet something.)

    He says “So, how was your day…?”

    This is the tricky question. And you don’t have to answer it the way you think you need to.
    Instead of “Oh, it was a little hectic at the office, so much stuff going on, but it was a good day….etc.”

    Try: “Oh, I felt so overwhelmed with all the paperwork,” or “It felt like it flew by, I felt so caught up in how fast the sales were flashing across my screen,” or “I feel so great being home, all curled up on this chair with the kitty in my lap. Oh, she feels so soft. I can feel her purr.” (Notice more feeling messages.)

    With your consciousness in your body, your feelings, your heart, and out of your head, business, facts and logic, your intuition will now kick in. You’ll be able to sense when the conversation runs out of steam.

    You’ll be able to tell when he’s had enough phone time. (Though, if you share your feelings in the GoodNight Talk style, he might just suggest he jump in the car and come over just then.)

    You’ll be able to say “I feel so relaxed. I feel like I could just drift off here with the cat,” and he’ll say “Sweet dreams” instead of “Well, I’ve got to go now.”

    The GoodNight Talk is an example of how to talk from your feeling state. If we women want it all, we can have it. CEO by day, object of passionate desire by night. Who wouldn’t want that?

    Feelings will get you everything. Thinking will get you half.

    Learn to talk from your heart, and you’ll pull in men who want to touch your heart with their own.

  317.  #318T-Girl on October 24, 2015 at 8:10 am

    Turquoise, I don’t know, what comes to my mind promising exclusivity after 2 dates a couple weeks ago is that he is now the prize rather than you. Yet he is not acting as the boyfriend but still wants the label. I had a guy like this too. And boy was I hung up on him, waiting for the next time to see him but excuse after excuse came but somehow I was sucked up into it. And then when I started dating my husband, he was booking dates at the end of a date because he wanted to make sure he was on MY calendar. That is when it became clear.

  318.  #319Lilybelly on October 24, 2015 at 9:35 am

    I second what Tgirl says here as well.

    J booked me in advance, many times at the end of the date. There were a couple times, in the early days, where he had been off with friends and called when he got home and asked me over. Not late but like, late afternoonish. I never accepted those last minute get togethers. I wanted to be sure I was more than a booty call, even if we weren’t sleeping together at that time.

    I am still of the mindset that if he isn’t in front of me, he isn’t real. And my old favotite, actions speak louder than words. I feel anxious when I think of imaginary relationships. If I listen closely, I can still hear my heart break from the one bad one I had many years ago.

  319.  #320Lovergirl on October 24, 2015 at 9:52 am

    So I saw (and had sex with for the second time) the man I talked about before- who I met on Tinder. He’s a CEO for a company in the medical field and very wealthy. He just seems almost too good to be true! He’s good looking, physically in great shape, and way beyond incredible in bed! He waited 4 dates to even kiss me, which was surprising to me and he ACTS very interested in me. For a bit I was worried he might be married but I actually think he’s telling the truth about being single. He’s kind of a workaholic and travels often for business, but those things don’t bother me.

    I’m not sure what he’s looking for relationship wise, since he’s never said. He has been super sweet to me though and always acts really happy and excited to be around me. I’m kind of baffled as to why a guy like him would want a poor single mom with a bunch of kids though!

    Anyway, I guess I’d like to practice my rori raye tools with him and see what happens! So far he will do things like inform me a week in advance when he will be back in town and ask to see me practically the minute he flies in. He sends me random “good morning beautiful” type texts. He uses a lot of exclamation points and will be like “just two more days till I get to see you!!!” and stuff like that.

    I’m really liking him but I’m kind of afraid of getting swept away. He just seems too good to be true!

  320.  #321Liquid Light on October 24, 2015 at 1:06 pm

    Lovergirl, Wow, that guy sounds great! Try to keep an open mind and not assume he’s too good to be true. Just see how it goes. If something happens to make you believe that he’s too good to be true, like a red flag that comes up, then you can deal with it then but don’t look for it! Just enjoy yourself girl!

  321.  #322Femininewoman on October 24, 2015 at 1:24 pm

    Turquoise maybe you can clarify.

    How long have you known him?
    How many times have you seen him? Dated him?

  322.  #323BeLoved on October 24, 2015 at 1:46 pm

    I’m feeling my way through this…and I feel even more secure, more settled, more centered in my place in life.

    TG and I talked this morning, and he told me that the roomie who is moving told him that she really doesn’t have an issue with her daughter, she is moving in with a friend because of the stuff with me, that she doesn’t want it to escalate. YET SHE STILL KEEPS MOVING MY STUFF EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE ALL TALKED ABOUT IT.

    So, all I could do, was sit and feel present with all of the feelings that came up when he told me that. Because he said that her giving notice was the trigger that pushed him to decide to sell the house and create all of this upheaval.

    I realized, this is my fear come to life, and I’m living through it. The fear that if I speak up, say I feel angry, stand up for myself, insist on something that I can’t justify or rationalize, that I want something simply because I want it, it’s how I like it…then something Very Bad will happen and People Will Think I Am Bad and Crazy.

    And this time…I’m not absorbing the blame. It isn’t my fault that all N can see from here is escalation. I understand WHY, and, it isn’t for me to fix. While she is running around talking about how insignificant and petty what I want is, she would rather completely pack and move just days after moving in, than NOT MOVE MY STUFF.

    It isn’t my fault that TG has chosen to spend every freaking dime and not save up. I’ve seen literally dozens of packages from eBay arrive in a single day. Instead of saving money and planning for the inevitability that there will be roommate turnover, or securing leases and proper deposits, or getting 2 part-time jobs, or anything else to increase or stabilize his income really. He hates living in TX (he’s only been here a couple of years) and has been wanting out for a while, that isn’t my fault.

    TG doesn’t seem to be blaming at all, and I told him also, I’m not blaming you, I just feel scared. The conversation overall felt positive.

    My mantra has been “I am safe and all is well. I am safe, and all is well.” I was repeating this in my mind while I was crying on the sofa talking to TG, hand on my heart. It’s an interesting dance, to allow what I feel and let that be, to love and bless my feelings, and at the same time, drum that thought through my mind – “I am safe, all is well” and be in gratitude, all at once.

    It felt good to hear what was going on with TG, and feel present with what he was sharing, without feeling like I had to shut down, or that it was taking away from me somehow. It felt good to feel room for ALL of our stuff. I didn’t speak much, I mostly listened and felt all the feels, and TG seemed visibly relieved and happier that we had such an honest conversation.

    And…we have a new roomie coming in who is temporary, and I felt immediately comfortable with her. So, there’s that.
    Whew….sigh….time for a shower!

  323.  #324BeLoved on October 24, 2015 at 2:46 pm

    This may not have anything to do with anything…and…I will say this:
    A couple of weeks ago, I felt tired of having a huge king-sized bed take up most of my room. The bed belongs to TG, so I have been talking to him off and on for a couple of months about him getting rid of it so I have more room. He has hemmed and hawed and not ever really gotten on board with moving it.

    So…the day he decides to put up the house for sale, I ask him to make it a priority to get rid of the bed first please. No go, he says. Too much else going on. I can list it myself and give it away if I want, though.

    So I do a meditation on how good it feels and how it looks to be lounging in my new, smaller bed and have so much space in my room.

    12 hours later, TG tells me to take down the listing, he will get rid of the bed. PLUS asks me if I want to trade the rails/headboard I paid next to nothing for, for the dresser and desk I’ve been using.
    Well, YES! Yes, I do.
    The next morning the bed is GONE and I have my new smaller bed all set up.

    It cracks me up to imagine that maybe all of the hooplah and shifting and feeling stuff is what had to happen to manifest my bed and none of the other stuff is really what I thought it was about at all.

    Don’t really know, it’s kind of fun to think about, though.

  324.  #325Turquoise on October 24, 2015 at 8:49 pm

    Ok, so feeling better about things with Knight. We met for dinner tonight and it was really nice. He holds my hand across the table, and makes great eye contact. There is never a lack of conversation. 🙂 he apologized for not being more available and talked about several places he would like to take me… And my kids when it gets to that. He is looking for a new job and is getting a lot of projects done.
    I dropped all the speculating tonight and stayed in the moment. I reminded him that I like to plan ahead… And our first two dates, were. Today was just agreed on last night. I realize I need to fill up my calendar and when he asks and I’m booked, then he will get the picture. I didn’t agree to be his girlfriend and decided if it comes up again what to say. The honest truth is, I do want more time together to be in a relationship. I would want my kids to like anyone I’d be in a relationship with, and I’m not rushing into them meeting. The thing that makes me feel so connected, it’s all the long conversations we’ve had. He lives about 45 min. away, and between work schedules and my kids schedules, we have been limited on opportunity.
    I am leaning back,.. Living my life and enjoying it. No more making him the prize… Or any man. I’ve been reading a lot of articles. Really good for me to get refreshed!
    Tonight was fun and I didn’t feel suspicious. I believed what he said, I leaned back and received. It was good.

  325.  #326Indigo on October 24, 2015 at 9:53 pm


    Yay you! Isn’t it great that we get to learn all of this stuff in the presence of a man and get to be gentle on ourselves and not have to blame ourselves?

  326.  #327Turquoise on October 24, 2015 at 10:42 pm

    Yes Indigo…. And it was kind of funny because several times he asked me what I was thinking lol. I guess I had a curious look on my face. He texted to tell me he misses me.
    He definitely likes to lead and takes on the manly role. I’m going to practice leaning back and letting him lead (without the worrying) and working on myself. Remembering that I am a catch. I have my life together and I’m happy. Even without a man. I was starting to feel a little insecure, as he’s 5 years younger. But he’s complimentary, says how beautiful I am. And he’s made a lot of comments about me being “wholesome” and how much he likes the way I present myself, my beliefs and morals…. That I’m such a good mom and have values. He commented that he’s never had that. He has shared that he was cheated on.
    His mother died when he was 13, and I wonder what that does to a person. He’s very attentive… Made sure I liked my dinner, asked if I wanted anything else to drink, appetizers, dessert… Even asked if I wanted to get something else to take home. He paid, opens doors…. It was a very nice evening. I’m glad I went. 🙂
    How are things with Bush Boy? How far away did he move? Any plans to see him?

  327.  #328Indigo on October 25, 2015 at 12:44 am

    Hey Turquoise,

    That sounds really wonderful. Doesn’t it feel good to give up worrying and just receive what a man wants to offer you? Your evening sounds really lovely. And I wouldn’t worry about him being 5 years younger. Cherry Norris says that it’s a great compliment when younger guys are interested in us and that an older woman and a younger man often make a great match. Bush Boy is 7 years younger than me.

    Bush Boy actually texted me yesterday that he missed me. He is spending a few days with his family up the coast before he moves, and said he was coming back this way to come home today and asked if he could come by and see me this evening. He asked if I had sherry and said that sherry with me would make it the best Sunday ever. I love the things he says to me. I love the way it makes me feel. I love the way our conversations leave me with a light happy feeling for hours afterwards. I like the way I light up inside when I see I’ve got a text from him – he always says the sweetest things. It just makes me feel warm. I’m not ready to give that up.

    He’s moving to a very beautiful little town on the coast about 2 hours drive, maybe a little more, from me. I don’t think it’s the end of the world if we can still see each other occasionally. I would have no hesitation about moving if it was for the right relationship. I don’t have anything huge keeping me here.

  328.  #329Zara on October 25, 2015 at 3:07 am

    319 Beloved said:
    *****It cracks me up to imagine that maybe all of the hooplah and shifting and feeling stuff is what had to happen to manifest my bed and none of the other stuff is really what I thought it was about at all.
    Don’t really know, it’s kind of fun to think about, though.*****

    I love it! I can relate to that 🙂


  329.  #330Turquoise on October 25, 2015 at 6:26 am

    Awe Indigo, I know exactly what you mean… And that’s what I meant by, if this really is an imaginary relationship….. Do I still walk away when so much of it feels good? What that really should have said is, can I keep him in my CD rotation, while loving and living my life, and staying open to all possibilities. BecUse I really do love our long conversations. We were doing the Good Night talk, and I didn’t even realize. We do talk about some business type stuff too…. But mostly it’s a ton of feeling messages, full of smiles and warm words. He has opened up a lot and talked about his dad, and grandparents…. Life as a child, how hard he has worked…. His garden, cooking, and future plans. He’s a bit of a schmoozer though too… So when he says he wants to be my everything, to take care of me, and how much he loves xyz about me…. I just smile and think of course you do, without reading more into it. I’m s very action oriented person. Words are nice to hear, but I don’t give them much weight. Which is why I was getting frustrated not seeing him. But the truth is, if I’d stuck to cding in the beginning as I’d planned, there would have been no pressure to be together and connect. The new thought I’m telling myself is, he’s a 36 year old single man, never married, with no children and not much family. He’s used to handling everything on his own. While he says he doesn’t want to be alone, it’s what he knows. Just like this article says… I can’t make someone want to spend time with me, or be open with me, but I can inspire that. I can be the warm open arms that someone feels comfortable in, without judgement or pity. My friends know that, my

  330.  #331Turquoise on October 25, 2015 at 6:38 am

    Family knows that…. so in time a man can trust that too.
    Lily, thank you for the reminder about not in front of me, doesn’t exist. I have been thinking about him way too much!
    This is a great week for me though. This afternoon I have plans with my kids and friends, tonight I’m open to possibilities or have time planned to organize my office and clean carpets. I have work all week, candles to deliver, my girls have practices to go to…. I have plans with my sister Tuesday night to have dinner and go to a psychic event, then I’m open Wed. and Thurs. but Friday is totally full with my kids until about 10:00 PM, and then I have a Halloween party to go to. Saturday night we have trick or treat and having friends over for food and a bonfire. SO, is there time in there for a man? Yes. Do I have any desire to try and plan something with a man? No.
    Another thought I had…. As much as I love our long conversations, they are often lasting until very late at night. I need to take better care of me, and be getting more sleep. I need to be giving more love to me.
    Things sound lovely with Bush Boy Indigo, and you seem totally in control. 2 hours isn’t terrible and bring open to a move, leaves room for possibilities. 🙂

  331.  #332Azure Blu on October 25, 2015 at 8:14 am

    Indigo #323
    Wow… I do love hearing how things with Bush Boy are coming along…
    He does seem to be very interested!!
    and that you are receiving some very warm feelings from him…
    Like you and Turquoise say,,,
    2 hours isnt too far and that you would be willing to move…
    sooo happy about the NOW!
    But one step at a time!

  332.  #333Azure Blu on October 25, 2015 at 8:16 am

    I too would be struggling with blaming myself for roomie moving and TG selling the house…
    BUT using the Rori tools it was all sooo magical…
    although NOT what you would have wanted

    You let them have their feelings… and NOT
    rescue them!!!
    and LOVING on yOU!!
    I’m so glad you get to have more space in your bedroom for the rest of your time there!

  333.  #334Azure Blu on October 25, 2015 at 8:21 am

    Wow this all sounds sooo great!
    I do love this:
    “….I just smile and think of course you do, without reading more into it.
    I’m s very action oriented person.
    Words are nice to hear,
    but I don’t give them much weight.
    Which is why I was getting frustrated not seeing him. But the truth is,
    if I’d stuck to cding in the beginning as I’d planned, there would have been no pressure
    to be together and connect.”

    And you are Cding with your kids, family, friends and living YOUR wonderful life!
    I love how you have turned this all around!
    and are keeping it in the perspective it deserves!!!

  334.  #335BeLoved on October 25, 2015 at 1:08 pm

    Azure – as always, thank you thank you for such lovely, positive reflections 🙂

    Zara – ah, it feels good to feel “got”! Ultimately, it’s all a story though, about why this or that happens, and in hindsight it’s rarely ever how it seems at the time. It feels best to feel my way through and enjoy the stories as they arise and dissipate.

    I did notice in all of this, though, a negative mantra, or, rumination, going on at the back of my mind. Noticing this reminded me to come back to my metta practice last night.

    Now TG is talking about different options that might enable the other roomie and I to stay….Who knows what the situation will be later this week. He hasn’t even met with a realtor yet! Much ado about nothing for the moment. I feel proud that even though I felt reactive I stayed as present as I could through the feelings, loving and blessing myself, my feelings, the experience.

    Now…if I could just get some studying done…THAT would be a major accomplishment!

  335.  #336Lovergirl on October 25, 2015 at 8:33 pm

    Congrats Zia!!!

  336.  #337Lovergirl on October 25, 2015 at 8:36 pm

    Thanks Liquid Light. I’m going to try to do that. Its hard because a big part of me wants to get super excited about this guy, but then I worry because he’s probably really out of my league. I don’t want to project that I think that at all though!

  337.  #338Emerson on October 25, 2015 at 8:42 pm

    I feel the full moon coming in two days…

  338.  #339Lovergirl on October 25, 2015 at 8:53 pm

    On another note, maybe my general cluelessness about what its like to be rich is actually helping me with this guy. He showed me his watch, its an Apple Watch and I had no idea these things can run up to $17,000. He didn’t tell me that, I looked it up just now. Anyhow he was showing me something about his watch and I was totally unimpressed. I said something like “so what, its basically just like your phone, but smaller? That would get on my nerves, having little apps like that”. LOL

  339.  #340Indigo on October 26, 2015 at 1:41 am

    Emerson 333,

    It’s interesting you say that because I’ve found myself wondering when the full moon would be the last couple of nights.

    Last night I just broke down into tears, just real, heartfelt sobs, and I didn’t know why. It just felt like a lot of things I’ve been suppressing, keeping inside, trying to deal with were just bubbling up and over, like they didn’t want to be kept in any longer. After that, I fell into a deep sleep. The coming full moon explains all this.

  340.  #341Azure Blu on October 26, 2015 at 4:36 am

    Lovergirl, #334
    Wow!!! You ARE the cding Siren!!!
    How exciting that your enjoying time with this man…
    You are attracting more quality men…
    I know I am loving the quality of men I am attracting
    I’m not sure saying, he is out of your league, is good though…
    I certainly do know that feeling…
    Rori has an archived post about just this thing… (maybe Zara knows where)
    and she reminded the young woman
    who was dating a Dr.
    that she is much more quality than him…
    She was working, going to school, raising 2 young children all on her own
    She certainly was an amazing, smart quality Siren!!

    The ONLY way for us NOT to project these feelings of unworthy and inadequacy is to
    acknowledge these feelings,
    continue to LOVE these feelings, hug them, listen to why they feel that way
    bring them close
    ignoring, despising or pushing these feelings away
    has NEVER helped me to overcome them…

  341.  #342Starla on October 26, 2015 at 6:07 am

    Good morning!
    I like what Lily says about the mindset of if he isn’t in front of you, he isn’t real. I think I need to take the same approach with my whole anxiety situation, like “if there isn’t a problem in front of you, it isn’t real.” I get incredible anxiety in my relationship and my guy spends a lot of time asking me what’s wrong and telling me everything’s okay. He seems to have infinite patience and attraction for me, but neither of us feels good about my having to live life feeling this way.

    “If there isn’t a problem in front of you, it isn’t real.”

    I am going to agree to marry this man, so it doesn’t seem too logical, even to my anxious brain, that I need to be on the constant lookout for the other shoe dropping, being betrayed, or saying or doing the wrong thing and hurting the relationship or his attraction for me. I just can’t HELP it, ladies. It’s a habit like smoking.

    I honestly find it hard to believe that this is my life: constant worry and shame. I am awfully productive, considering.

    I wonder if it’s possible to give myself permission to let go of a worry or bad feeling when there’s no evidence (aside from my ‘intuition’, which is an intuition of lies and trickery:P). Could I tell myself, “I have no proof of that” and move on?

  342.  #343Femininewoman on October 26, 2015 at 6:25 am

    It is possible Starla. I have done some tapping in the past and part of the script that is almost always included is something like:-

    Even though I feel worried and anxious I choose to love myself. I give myself permission to let go of the worry and anxiety.

    Maybe not a perfect script but the idea is to acknowledge and accept where you are while at the same time empower yourself to move.

  343.  #344Femininewoman on October 26, 2015 at 6:27 am

    Another tool I learned from another life coach is

    “I breath in love and I exhale worry and anxiety”. It is an exercise I do and say to calm myself when I am walking or sitting on the train. I use it to calm myself and it is incredibly helpful. These are the kinds of things that resonate with me as I focus on conscious living and conscious loving.

  344.  #345Starla on October 26, 2015 at 6:33 am

    Thank you, FW!

  345.  #346Lilybelly on October 26, 2015 at 9:46 am

    Starla, yes you can.

    I practice this too..breathing in the good and letting go of the anxiety. It takes a bit for me, likely because I am out of practice. I also remember hearing before that 99% of what we worry about doesn’t happen so the worry et .. is just wasted time.

    And this: fear= false evidence appearing real.

  346.  #347Starla on October 26, 2015 at 1:30 pm

    Thank you, both of you.

  347.  #348Lovergirl on October 26, 2015 at 2:32 pm

    Thank you Azure! I don’t want to have the attitude that he is out of my league. He really does seem to like me- or he did, and his last text was positive, but I havent heard from him since Sat morning after I left (it’s Monday now) and I admit to some anxiety. His last text was sweet and very nice but ugggh…where did he go??

    It probably doesn’t help that yesterday marks 8 weeks since S and I had our last conversation. Nothing. It’s definitely over. :/

  348.  #349Turquoise on October 26, 2015 at 7:47 pm

    Indigo, I cried last week…. Was good to just let it all out. Hope you are feeling better!!

  349.  #350Indigo on October 26, 2015 at 11:57 pm


    Thank you. I’ve been feeling very emotional the last couple of days – not in a bad way, everything’s just felt worth crying about. It’s good in a way! Gives me an excuse! Then of course I started my period this morning which makes sense.

  350.  #351Indigo on October 27, 2015 at 12:03 am

    Lovergirl 343,

    This is the gamble you take when you sleep with a guy before there’s any kind of arrangement or before you know him better. I would really encourage you to move away from this thinking that a guy is a prize and wondering when/if you’ll hear from him again after sex… it is a one-way trip to anxiety.

  351.  #352Lovergirl on October 27, 2015 at 1:13 am

    Indigo, he waited 4 dates to even kiss me and weve had sex before. This was the second time. He doesnt seem like the type to just disappear. It is probably just my anxiety and he is pulling away just being a guy after a lot of intimacy. i dont know though I guess I will find out. I know I shouldn’t be thinking of him as a prize but hes a freaking millionaire, lol and hes super good looking and used to play college football for a big name school. Im a poor single mom with 5 kids. :p How do I view myself as the prize?

  352.  #353Indigo on October 27, 2015 at 2:22 am

    I know how you feel, Lovergirl, but honestly those things – millionaire, super good looking, used to play college football for a big name school – don’t mean anything, ANYTHING, when it comes to what someone is worth as a person. When you can own that truth for yourself all of this will start to become clear to you. You are precious because of who you are… try to really get into what makes you *you* and what is lovable about you. Not in an arrogant, lauding it over men kind of way (too many women make this mistake) but just start realising that as a woman, you have what men want. With all their money and fancy whatevers, they cannot do for themselves what we can do for them. Start owning your softness, your beauty, your allure as a woman. Show a man what it might be like to be loved by someone like you. I promise you, this is what men are looking for 🙂 not money / superficial good looks etc.

  353.  #354Femininewoman on October 27, 2015 at 4:42 am

    Hi Lovergirl. I totally agree with Indigo here. All those “accolades” can evaporate in dust with one injury or one financial mistake. I have seen it discussed on this board in the past about having sex and the man not kissing the woman. It is not a good sign about where the man is emotionally. Money is a power mask some men wear.

  354.  #355Azure Blu on October 27, 2015 at 5:32 am

    Lovely, beautiful, smart, strong, sweet, vulnerable Siren!!

    I too agree with Indigo…
    to me it feels like you are focusing on HIM
    bring all YOUR feelings back to you…
    Why are you feeling so unworthy and inadequate?
    I know I have to visit this feeling off and on…
    I used to feel this way a lot!
    Since Rori and learning to LOVE all of ME
    even my unworthy feelings
    I am attracting very high quality men (not just money)
    and NOT feeling inadequate (and my financial state, which is quite BAD, hasn’t changed much)
    Actually to me then…Spirit was more high quality man than i had previously-
    good looking, well known in the community, good job, smart, Ball room dancer – lots of women wanted him…
    looking back.. I did feel inadequate when I was with him… and It showed… I acted needy, and wimpy…

    now (over a year later) after cding men who are physiologically mature, smart, responsible, plan dates way in advance, talk easily about important issues and relationship (THEY bring it up)
    I can see he is VERY immature
    has great difficulty talking about anything important
    or planning anything (i’m sure he does this to all women he dates)
    As Rori says… keep CDing and learning about ME
    and who men REALLY are will be become clearer!!

    It’s all about US… learning more about who we are
    and learning about what sort of man we want (Takes time)
    and How to be SOFT on the outside and
    Strong on the inside
    because we LOVE all of us!!
    Baby steps…
    YOU are doing GREAT Lovergirl!!!

  355.  #356April Rose on October 27, 2015 at 12:40 pm

    A man’s greatness is surely to be measured by his ability to give, and the degree of openness of his heart.

  356.  #357Azure Blu on October 27, 2015 at 1:11 pm

    April Rose #351
    “A man’s greatness
    is surely to be measured
    by his ability to give,
    and the degree of openness
    of his heart.”

  357.  #358Lovergirl on October 27, 2015 at 1:12 pm

    Indigo, thank you. I know I should know my worth as a woman, its just hard to figure out how to FEEL that way.

  358.  #359Lovergirl on October 27, 2015 at 1:14 pm

    Femininewoman 349- I think you are misunderstanding what I mean when I said he didn’t kiss me. I meant it took four dates for him to make a move that involved kissing me. He would just hug at the end of the date. After that he kissed me plenty, and was quite good at it. 😉

  359.  #360Femininewoman on October 27, 2015 at 1:21 pm

    Ok Lovergirl. It’s just that your comment included and weve had sex before. It suggested to me that he got to second base before he made it to first base.

    Maybe I did misunderstand.

  360.  #361Lovergirl on October 27, 2015 at 1:29 pm

    The last text mr millionaire sent me was after I left him on Sat and had sent him a thank you for a wonderful time type text. It said “you were awesome! I had a blast with you! I love that you were able to go for 8 hrs with me! That’s nothing! We could have kept going! You are a champ!” Then right after that I got a blank bubble text and thought it must have been an accident. I didn’t respond to that, but I said nice things in the text before it. Haven’t heard from him since and that is why I am feeling anxiety. 3 days now…(Yes we had sex for 8 hrs straight and it was incredible!)

    I don’t know if its just nasty voices or what. He doesn’t seem like the type to just disappear but I like him a lot and feel anxious.

    Then today, I got on OKcupid. I was deleting a bunch of emails because my box was full and came across one from him! Remember, I met him on Tinder and after our first date he had tried to email me on there but it stopped working on my phone and we hadn’t exchanged numbers yet. When it worked again was months later and I finally responded to him.

    Anyhow, apparently during that time he had emailed me again on Tinder (which I never saw or responded to until later) and also found me on OKCupid. I just today read the email for the first time. It is from a month ago.

    I was unwittingly playing hard to get!!! Haha His email on there says “hey stranger! I have been looking for you!!!!” Which made me laugh, so I did respond today but haven’t heard back. I said “I just saw this, lol. I haven’t been on OKCupid in ages. Too funny, you are most definitely still on my mind. :)”

    Thing is, when I wrote that, he was showing as online on Okcupid. So now I’m stressed like did he see it and just not respond?? I know he turns off all notifications on his phone though, for everything, because he says he gets 7000 emails a day at work and it drives him crazy to be notified of anything. So he may have not seen it yet.

  361.  #362Lovergirl on October 27, 2015 at 1:34 pm

    Femininewoman 355- No he kissed me before we ever had sex and gave me a lovely massage, lol. We’ve had sex twice, AFTER the 4 initial dates. The last time was before he went on a business trip and he made sure to keep in touch during his trip. I know he goes on another one very soon, but he is still here in town now. I don’t doubt he is doing a ton of work and he also has his daughter when he is here, so its very possible he just doesn’t feel the need to text every day, since we left on a good note. I don’t know.

  362.  #363Lovergirl on October 27, 2015 at 1:44 pm

    Azure (350)- Thanks. I think I’m just terribly afraid that this man has been too good to be true. He has seemed very interested and now I’m afraid of abandonment or that I somehow messed things up.

    I suppose a lot of it is just feeling inadequate. I fear that every time I really like a man it will result in him not feeling the same way about me. I worry about things like was I too affectionate in bed and scared him off, or did I look so awful after the 8 hr marathon sex that he is not attracted anymore? Did I say something that made him not like me? Am I not good enough?

  363.  #364Starla on October 27, 2015 at 2:12 pm

    This is an automated alert. A treadmill of obsessive manxiety has been detected. This is not a test. If this were a test, you wouldn’t be posting long paragraphs wondering what a man is thinking or doing and what it all means. Please proceed to the nearest self care option. End alert.

  364.  #365Lovergirl on October 27, 2015 at 2:30 pm

    Starla- so what kind of self care can help me not be anxious?

  365.  #366Starla on October 27, 2015 at 2:40 pm

    Great question, Lovergirl!

    The self care can help you be less anxious, but not always. The more important thing is to consciously choose to turn your energy away from the manxiety and put it back on yourself, which is great for your vibe (read: his attraction to you) and forms the roots of long term shift in manxiety experienced.

    It’s really up to you what self care you put your attention on, but Rori and other coaches like Leigha Lake suggest making a list of things you can do to go “out the window” when you are obsessing in an anxious way. Here’s some things people might put on their list:

    Go for a walk
    Do the dishes
    Give self a pedicure
    Give self a little facial
    Dance around the house
    Crafting projects
    Guided relaxation audios
    Yoga or stretching
    Take a bath

    Basically anything that has you getting up and walking away from the act of obsessive anxiety.

  366.  #367BeLoved on October 27, 2015 at 5:02 pm

    So….TG got rid of the 3 macaws which were HIGH maintenance. Quit his job that he hates. The same day he quit, he got a call for an interview somewhere else. Which he also hates. Today someone came by to buy some furniture, and offered to help TG get a job in the oil industry, asked him for his resume and now TG is talking about staying if he gets this job.

    How can I be mad at or judge myself for digging in my heels over something so seemingly petty when it seems to be inspiring such interesting shifts?


  367.  #368Azure Blu on October 27, 2015 at 8:51 pm

    Lovergirl #360
    Starla has some nice ideas…
    What helps me is;
    slowly visualize painting myself
    with love that smells like a rose…
    also finding these feeling of
    anxiety… Visualizing them as a small child
    and holding my hand out
    and asking her to come and sit beside me..
    let her lean her head on me as I cuddle
    her in my warm arms and ask her to tell
    me why she is feeling so anxious
    and tell her I will always love her.
    She is a part of me
    I’m so sorry I have been ignoring her
    and together we can learn to live
    our happy life…
    I do this as often as I need to.
    It always helps soooo much!!!

  368.  #369Indigo on October 27, 2015 at 11:57 pm

    Lovergirl 360,

    I love both Starla and Azure Blu’s suggestions.

    In the moment, a great thing to do (if you’re like me and you suffer from an immediate physical reaction such as pounding heart and churning stomach) is to place your right hand over your heart firmly, close your eyes and breathe deeply. You can breathe in love and peace and breathe out fear and anxiety if you wish. This simple exercise has MASSIVELY reduced the physical symptoms of my anxiety over the last few years. Come to think of it, I don’t feel much manxiety these days, so these tips really do work if you practice them over time. Going for a long brisk walk in a pretty area listening to music on my headphones is my favourite and most effective. Hot, full bath with lots of lovely smelling bubble bath, followed by smoothing some gorgeous moisturising lotion over my whole body is great too.

    Also, remember, boy time is different from girl time. What to us seems like a long time seems like only the blink of an eye to them. A week can pass and to a man it’s like only a day or two. If he’s focused on work this is even more so.

  369.  #370Lovergirl on October 28, 2015 at 11:50 am

    Thank you Indigo, Starla, Azure Blu- all helpful -though I giggled at the thought of washing dishes to get my mind off someone! I abhor washing dishes and with 5 kids sometimes I feel like I am doing them all day long! Plus when I do stuff like that my mind is just running, running, running with anxieties and thoughts. Even with walks or baths, which I enjoy, my mind is often not on me but on the guy. Ugh.

    I’ve been super busy lately, actually- between work and running to activities and appointments with the kids and everything else I have to do, but I’m always multitasking, in my head thinking about what needs to be done next and anxieties. I just need to practice focusing on the moment, enjoying the small things.

  370.  #371Lovergirl on October 28, 2015 at 11:57 am

    I’m going to try some of the exercises you three suggested and I’m also going to try and remind myself about “boy time”. He is an exceptionally work-focused man (which makes sense with how successful he is at his job) so I’m sure he does need to focus only on that a lot.

    What’s funny, is that since he had emailed me on okcupid, I went to check out his profile and learned lots about him! He had answered a bunch of the questions so I read them all and his personality test results were on there (ESTJ- I’m an ENFP). We had scored 85% compatible on our question answers, lol.

    One of the questions had been something like what would you do if you decided you were no longer interested in someone that you had acted interested in before? His answer was that he would call them and tell them. Mine was that I would wait until they contacted me to say anything. It was kind of comforting though because the other options involved just not ever calling them again or ignoring their calls.

  371.  #372Lovergirl on October 28, 2015 at 12:00 pm

    Oh and there was also a question about how much contact you needed from a significant other and if you needed to hear from them every day and he had answered something about it not being that important for him to hear from them frequently at all. Like, he could go days without talking and be fine. So that may just be his personality. And yes, I know I’m still obsessing over here so I’ll go focus on something else but I wanted to share that. 😉

  372.  #373Rori Raye on October 31, 2015 at 3:46 pm

    Lisa – Forget rules about this one…go with your gut. If a man was hiding things about other women from me — though I’d want to work out in myself why he felt he couldn’t TELL me about these things – I still wouldn’t want to be around a man who sprung this kind of thing on me. If you’re the kind a of woman a man doesn’t feel SAFE with – to tell WHATEVER’s going on in his life (this is not about him telling you his fantasies, or who he’s attracted to – that might be too much for most women – but to tell you about any actions he’s taken that might be unsettling to you) – then work on that. If your upset is enough to drive him away – doesn’t sound like a good match to me…I would expect him to come back…Love, Rori.

  373.  #374Rori Raye on October 31, 2015 at 3:49 pm

    Stacey – Circular Date! He’s perfectly within his rights to be dating someone else until you’re completely unattached. I would do the same if I were him. Time clears all this…if it were me, I’d wade into this water! Just stay comfortable and stay in touch with your feelings – and speak them!. Why should he get rid of his girlfriend until you’re officially divorced? Love, Rori