Free New Siren Report: Have It ALL!

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Have it all coverHi – This is Rori, and If you’ve ever felt yourself “holding back” from saying what you think, or moving ahead with a business venture, or stepping up in a work situation (including asking for a promotion or starting your OWN business as an Entrepreneur), you’re not only “not alone” – you’re experiencing the general “rule” for most of us women.

We’ve been SO taught that we CAN’T be “all that we can be” (no matter what the ads say) – it’s almost second nature for us to defer to others and then feel deeply frustrated that we don’t have what we want.

I mean to end that frustration for you with a new set of information, advice and Tools that will help you be a “Business Siren,” which simply means:

You CAN Have It All!

You CAN be successful in work and business and STILL get your man!

So – And I’ve got something new for you – a free report and set of free new newsletters filled with new “Have It All” and Business Siren Tools.

Here’s the link to get on the new “Business Siren – Have It All” newsletter list and instantly download your “Have It All” report:

So – What does Having It All exactly mean to YOU?

Regardless of the material things we all may want – for me, to Have It All means simply to be able to be a success in business, especially as an Entrepreneur working only for yourself, and a success in love.

It means not settling for sub-par and unfulfilling “work” OR for a sub-par, unappreciative, unfulfilling man.

Being A Business Siren gives you full access to your “boy” energy – AND full access to your “girl” energy – at the same time!

Instead of “choosing” what you need to be doing to get what you want in any given moment – you’ll be able to EXPAND BOTH of these energies, and simply “shift hats” as fluidly and as often as you like.

As a Business Siren, you’ll learn to believe in the Rori Raye concept that you CAN be a huge success in business, a money-making diva and a devoted artist happily creating what you want to create as much of the time as you like – AND – ALSO ATTRACT MEN!!!!

In fact – attract them MORE!

That with my Rori Raye Tools, you can be both tough and strong in the business world – getting things done and making hard and fast decisions – and also be soft when ever you want. You can be soft in love with a man – or in a boardroom! (where “soft in the boardroom” actually gets you WAY further than you’d imagine…)

Business Siren grew out of my Rori Raye Relationship Coach Training (RRRCT). As I train new coaches to go into business for themselves, I can feel how instinctively “hard” it is for them to commit totally to their success.

How we all are SO conditioned NOT to “take our work lives into our own hands” that everything else in our lives becomes more difficult.

If there’s one thing I’ve learned over the years – it’s that, when we can’t get our “boy” energy fully engaged, fully operating, fully out there making us feel financially secure and content in our hours of working – we don’t have full access to our “girl” energy.

We don’t feel safe to “surrender.”

Being a Business Siren is about creating safety for your Inner Girl to just “be,” while she’s being taken care of, protected and supported by your Inner Boy.

Putting it all together is what makes a Business Siren so awesome. You already HAVE everything you need inside.

Now – all you need are the Tools and new skills of business and relationships that no one’s EVER taught you before – skills that will BRING you EVERYTHING you want.

And here’s your link to “Have It All” with my newest Tool: 10 Paths To Walking The Feminine Trail”:

To begin thinking and feeling like a Business Siren:

Remember – we ALL have to work – and work looks many different ways.

The Questions to ask are:

1. Can I get MORE for myself out of the hours I’m putting in? More satisfaction, more money, more respect, more prestige, more free time, more…anything?

2. What would I do for a living if the only consideration I had to think about was what I WANTED to do with my time and energy?

3. Am I settling for just “okay” in work, hoping I’ll make up the difference in my love life – and then not feeling satisfied there either? Am I giving up something for something else, and ending up with little of both? Am I making a trade-off somewhere that isn’t working?

4. How can I shift my view of my “obligations”? This might be: you’re a single mom. You have an ailing family member who needs your emotional and financial support. Your man has problems – medical, emotional or psychological that are draining you. Perhaps you have something holding you back from living full out?

Ask yourself these questions, and more that come up once you’ve answered these.

What the Business Siren element of the work we’re doing together is aiming for – is to expand ourselves.

The truth is – we have to go bigger out in the world if we want more love. By making ourselves feel smaller – we not only DON’T get the man we want – we feel less secure inside ourselves, and less happy with what we DO have going.

Be sure to let me know how the whole Business Siren concept “lands” with you – and how the “Have It ALL” report works for you.

I would LOVE to know what your experiences have been with the challenges of how work and a man can pull us in different directions…it will help me give you more of what you need.

Love, Rori


  1.  #1Femininewoman on March 2, 2015 at 6:56 am

    I see a lot of coaches talking about having it all now. And I wonder.

  2.  #2Helena Hart on March 2, 2015 at 7:22 am

    I love this!! Before I started doing what I loved to do for work, I felt like I was “spinning my wheels” and not living up to my full potential – so I found myself trying to “make up the difference” in my love life (which never worked for me).

    When I started using my masculine energy for myself and my OWN life, that’s when my wonderful husband showed up – and I was open to him and able to be in my feminine energy when I was with him.

    Since I was using my masculine energy for MYSELF, I was no longer using it to try to “make something happen” in my love life. This made all the difference in the world for me, and many of my clients have had similar experiences as well!

    Love, Helena

  3.  #3Beloved on March 2, 2015 at 10:19 am

    I will make time today to go over these questions.
    It feels so clear to me now, that I really must get my boy energy working smart and on my side.
    Even though on the one hand, things feel shakey and magical at home, on the other, I feel how dependent I am on what feels like a precarious balance. If, at any point, TG moves or decides he doesn’t want roomies anymore or something like that, I’m screwed. If my car needs a major repair, I’m screwed. If I get really sick or suffer an injury, I’m screwed.
    I want to focus on building a better life for my future.

    I also want to share…how yummy my massage was yesterday. I love and adore my friend who is my massage therapist. She and I have very different views about things and lead very different lives, yet, we feel a bond and love and nurture and appreciate each other.
    Yesterday, as she was massaging my neck (which has been painful and stiff for ages), I felt a bubbling cascade of release and along with it, I heard a harmony, a chorus of sweet, loving voices singing “We’re so happy you’re here! So, so happy you’re alive! So happy you survived! You made it! We love you! So happy you’re here!”

    I felt tears streaming down my cheeks and laughter bubble up and a smile spread across my face. It felt connected with birth. It brings tears to my eyes now, remembering it. It felt like something deep healing within. I was so unwanted…and I can’t help but wonder if there were some couples who didn’t want me or want a girl or something because it took the agency 17 days to contact my adoptive parents, which is a LONG time, really, to adopt out a newborn.
    At any rate…it felt like…heaven, really. It felt like being welcomed and loved and cherished and cared for and it felt like, the baby me, was loved. It felt amazing, so tender, so precious.
    Like, it’s so hard to imagine anyone being happy I’m there and celebrating my presence and that I’m bringing happiness to others…that someone would want me and fight for ME because I’m valued.

    I’m kind of wondering if..maybe…my housemates are really happy I’m here. If TG is really happy I’m here and wants me here and maybe it isn’t all so precarious as I imagine. Which still doesn’t change that I need to feel like I create financial independence for myself again.

  4.  #4Labbit on March 2, 2015 at 10:51 am

    I downloaded this report via an email Rori sent out last week and it’s totally masterful. For me it is less about ‘having it all’ — I feel very triggered by this term, actually — and more about taking care of myself and getting what I want out of my relationship.

    In the past I was in my masculine energy all the time. Very successful C-level exec at a wildly popular startup, not even close to 30 yet, horrible love life. A fairly typical story for the city I live in. I ended up leaving that career behind and I’m much happier for it. Though Rori’s report did have me wondering if I had the opportunity again, could I be more balanced between my energies?

    I’ve come from a place where I had so many wrong ideas about how relationships work that it’s hard to pinpoint all the changes and transformation I’ve undergone, but I can say that I feel a lot happier both in my work and my relationship. At times when I began my business I struggled to support myself and pay my own bills which felt so weird after having such a great career and paycheck, and I see those were times where I railroaded my masculine energy because I thought of it as ‘bad.’ I love the idea of ever-expanding both our masculine and feminine energies, never having to downplay one or the other.

    I feel very intrigued about this program.

  5.  #5Mistea1 on March 2, 2015 at 11:15 am


    how I feel for your situation. What great strides you have made. I especially like how you heard music and voice during the neck massage. I don’t know for sure but it seems that it is evidence of something very deep and wonderful.

    Labbit 4,

    To me it means my ability to confidently switch between masc. and fem. without all the angst of should I or shouldn’t I, do I have the right, to am I in the right mode. I’m intrigued too.

  6.  #6Mistea1 on March 2, 2015 at 11:43 am

    I’m intrigued. I had always been very independent minded I thought.

    When I went through this music thing I felt completely blindsided and a became a ‘helpless female.’

    Still I am interested in my emotional side to either emotionally express or experience new music and be able to have masculine energy to do the practicing, marketing etc.

    So were these male composers so turned on that they could also hear the emotional content of their souls and bring it to the page? If women have a higher sexual feeling why aren’t there more top women composers. I know poitics have played a role over the centuries. I’m now and I want to be able to move freely in the canyons of my life and bring to life what I dream of.

  7.  #7April Rose on March 2, 2015 at 12:34 pm

    Love is coming towards me. And it feels amazing.

    And, I feel inexplicably terrified.

    The message I’m getting from you wonderful ladies is to love the fear, right?

    I’ll sink into it and feel it and ask it if it has a message for me. And then, I’ll shake my body like a dog shakes off water!

  8.  #8April Rose on March 2, 2015 at 12:53 pm

    Yesterday I was picked up from my house by a man who brought me a dozen roses.

    He drove me to his house where he cooked a simple yet wonderful meal for us.
    Then he put on music and kissed me and cuddled me and talked with me for several hours.

    He asked me would I stay over one night when he didn’t have work in the morning.
    He said that the first time i stay over will be “just sleeping” because he didn’t want to put any pressure on us for sex, as we will have plenty of time to discover that.

    Then he drove me home, walked me to my door and kissed me before saying goodnight.

    Pinch me, am I dreaming???

    “I sooo deserve this” is the thought that kept entering my head at intervals, and when I got home.
    And waves of delicious warm juiciness flowing through my body…

  9.  #9April Rose on March 2, 2015 at 12:56 pm

    I just wanted to add that the feeling between us is extremely sexy. And him saying we would have to wait felt like such a turn-on!!

  10.  #10Gemini Goddess on March 2, 2015 at 1:53 pm

    Wow. So very much I want to comment on (from previous threads). So much incredible insight and support going on. What a magical place this is.

    LovetoDance – I cannot thank you enough for being “on-call” on Friday night. I really wish I could give you the biggest hug. I kept your blog entries handy on my phone so I could reread them when I “went back in” Friday night.

    Labbit – SO appreciate your trigger post in response. So helpful. I can’t speak for him, but it feels like I’m triggered by EVERYTHING. Sometimes I just don’t want to see him for being exhausted by it all. Like tonight. I can’t wait to see him, and at the same time feeling a bit shaky (love that word)

    BTW- I kept the above mentioned blog entries handy on my phone so I could read them when I “went back in” Friday night.

    Femininewoman – Thanks so much for your concern. It feels so good. Makes me teary, frankly.

    Emerson 42 – I can relate. It is my very most un-favorite trigger. I’m never worried about “attractive” or porn women. I couldn’t care less. It’s authentic, vulnerable women that threaten me…one’s I fear might better touch his heart, or bond with him. Tight throat feeling while typing that.

    Indigo – Fantastic trigger insight. I am clearly struggling with this in terms of figuring out his stuff/my stuff/ scale of reaction/etc. Really trying to give myself credit for recognizing what’s going on to whatever degree I’m capable, and at least having the clear intention of working through it. I really hope these clear up eventually. My reaction scares me.

    Labbit 49 – Thanks what you said about jealousy. The “label” feels horrible and shameful. It’s consoling to think of it as just trigger based on past experience, and not ME.

    The rest of the (melt-down) night:

    I did tell D that when I’m waiting around it makes me feel low-priority. I could not cool myself down and had to explain. I didn’t say he was wrong or blame, though I was super bristly. He told me about some important something he was doing that made him late, and that he was only 15 minutes late, and I was at my office not waiting in the cold, and that we’d still have our appetizers and make the ferry. I agreed that all those things are true, that he is not wrong, that there will ALWAYS be other important things come up, AND being left waiting still makes me feel low-priority along with feeling every other crappy thing. At that point we parked, he kissed me, we got out of the car, he hugged me tight, took my hand, and we walked to have hour pre-ferry treats.

    Later, he said something else that was meant entirely flattering and appreciative about our passion for each other and s*x life, which just triggered me, thus my late night blog break-down. I KNEW I was hearing it a way he did NOT mean it, but it didn’t matter. Hurt. Spiral. Frustration. This upsets me about ME so much. I didn’t say anything because I could not formulate a feeling message, was embarrassed, and could not make it go away. (MUST work on feeling messages. At such a loss.) Nightmare. Triggered AGAIN?! No!!! Dammit! I just want to have a nice time without jumping all these bloody huddles.

    On the car ride back to pick up my car, I was looking out the window at the sparkly lights on the bay, trying to talk myself down. He knew something was up and asked what was going through my mind. I lied. Said nothing, and that I was just looking at the view. I couldn’t feeling message. I couldn’t figure out WHAT to do or say. I wanted it to go away. I made some vague comment that I hoped the rest of our relationship was as great as “that” part. Ugh. (I think I’ll try to script for this) He dropped me at my car, I stopped at home on my way back to his place. Cried out of frustration of the trigger, of BEING triggered, and terror of how to deal with it, feeling totally in knots, like my prefrontal cortex took a hike, overrun by NV’s, fear of rejection, loss, the whole nine-yards. Waaaah! Wrote on the blog. Heard from (((((LovetoDance))))). Pulled it together mostly, and headed over for the rest of our date. On the ride over I was thinking “I’m just a girl, and he’s just a boy.”

    When I got there he was smiling in a way that looked like he covering feeling wary. I said “You know when you asked me what I was thinking when I was looking out the car window, and I said “nothing”, and we BOTH knew that was crap?” He shook his head in agreement, with kind eyes. I said I hadn’t KNOWN in that moment exactly what I was thinking, and was trying to figure it out, and hadn’t known what to say, and that I feel like I keep getting upset, and I don’t want to, and it upsets me that I keep getting upset, and I don’t know why, and I’m trying to figure it out, and that he hasn’t done anything wrong, I’m not upset with HIM, and I know he didn’t mean ANYthing bad by what he said, but how I heard it sucked, and on and on…. He said that he’d like to understand if I wanted to talk about it, that he doesn’t think I get upset too much, and that when I do it just reminds him that I AM a girl (said with an affectionate smile). Adore him.

    We talked… a whole lot. It was great. I feel so much more comfortable saying “I’m upset, don’t know why exactly, and I’m not upset with you”… This seems to be a good “start point” for me if it’s true. He has been completely resilient every single time I’ve had an issue. I feels too good to be true.

    We spent the whole weekend together. He had an extra custody weekend with his 15-year-old son while his ex went to a parenting seminar (Yay, her!), and he lobbied for me to stay with him and do the domestic thing. We turned errands into a group adventure, hiked, biked. He spent Sunday installing curtains on my kids bunk bed, and fixing other little things. It doesn’t sound exciting in a sound-bite kind of way, but we had a grand ol’ time, and just felt so close. At one point he hugged me and said “How long have we been together now? Two years? I just want you to know I’ve really enjoyed getting to where we are.” (Funny thing is it’s actually only been 11 months) I adore him. I am elated and scared, and focusing on staying calm.

  11.  #11April Rose on March 2, 2015 at 2:10 pm

    Oh dear!

    I feel happy, scared and excited in my belly.

    I have been asked to go away for a long weekend. We have known each other for two weeks!

    I want to go.

    Is it a good idea? Best to wait? What if we can’t sleep? That will be three sleepless nights!!! Aaagh. What about if I need to take some personal space? How can I negotiate this in advance?

    I am wanting to learn to balance the “I feel shaky and weird” type statements, with more goddessy “I’d feel more comfortable with this…and this..” type statements.

    That is kind of where my learning is just now. Sometimes speaking my fear feels unnecessary. I just did it and it was kind of to create an outcome and it felt weird and off. I am learning that I don’t want to manipulate any more.

    Now I want to try to ‘undo’ the ‘damage’ and I realise that that is manipulative too. So I am going to leave it until I see him, and just sink into the discomfort I am feeling around my own actions.

  12.  #12Azure Blu on March 2, 2015 at 2:10 pm

    GG!! you should be VERY proud of yourself
    this is alllll amazing!!
    Sooo helpful for me to read about this.
    That when you shared with him, that
    you didn’t know what was wrong, and that it had nothing to do with him
    it caused so much closeness between you!!!
    Ahhh… I can’t wait till I can practice and
    Try alll of these wonderful tools!

  13.  #13Azure Blu on March 2, 2015 at 2:12 pm

    {{{{April Rose}}}
    this all sounds sooo fun and lovely

  14.  #14Labbit on March 2, 2015 at 2:17 pm

    Gemini Goddess!!! That all sounds amazing to me! I’m sure it didn’t feel very good in the moment to be triggered repeatedly and it sounds like you handled it very well, and opened yourself up in a beautiful way that your man responded brilliantly to!

    Yes to staying calm…to breathing…to opening our hearts ever further…

  15.  #15April Rose on March 2, 2015 at 2:22 pm

    Thank you for the hugs (((Azure Blu)))

  16.  #16Labbit on March 2, 2015 at 2:23 pm

    April Rose — What a delight! Any man who brings flowers gets a special place in my heart. 🙂

    7 – Yes to loving the fear. Give it space to move around inside of you, tell yourself you love the fear if you need to. (Some eves I say it over and over again.) Let fear beget love, to paraphrase Rori.

    11 – Be mindful of trying to fix past mistakes in your current relationship. Let the past go, whatever mistakes you think you made or anything that hangs over you. Allow yourself to be in this relationship as though it is your first one ever, with you as fresh as a spring flower.

    That said, and this feedback is colored by my own tendency towards caution, I feel nervous whenever a man makes sweeping plans such as weekends away before we’ve really gotten to know each other. Sure it feels wonderful to be taken care of and the idea of a weekend away together feels like three times the care! For me however I would not feel comfortable traveling with a man I don’t know very well, being out of my comfort zone in an unknown place with a man who is more or less a stranger.

    Sometimes men make these grand gestures to sweep us off our feet so they can get what they want more quickly, only to disappear after they get it. I’m not saying that is the case here, but for me I’d probably want to wait at least 2-3 months before I’d feel safe on a weekend trip with a man. I want to get to know him first and make sure his words and actions line up.

    Wishing you all the more delights from this man! He sounds like a romantic guy.

  17.  #17Mandy on March 2, 2015 at 2:24 pm

    This post and program couldn’t have come at a better time for me. Being that I have never worked due to disability, my parents want to ensure that I am taken care of after they pass on. I feel a calling towards coaching – health, life, love, something like that.

    My aunt is a wellness coach and she mentioned she was certified by an organization of some kind in Michigan or something, and i looked at the Rori coaching program and I’m late for it, also don’t know if I can afford it or not.

    Anyhoo, the point is, I need all the help I can get to get working. That would make me feel VERY good about me.

    I really want to be a Rori coach, but I see some hurdles. I don’t know, my dad said he’d pay for training and certification but I haven’t shown him the Rori thing yet.

    Do you think my dad, a military guy who is very logical and pretty calculated, will be open to it? This is the guy who gets P.O.-ed with feeling messages, lol. My mom is the one who knows how to talk to him, she plants an idea in his head and then he thinks it’s his idea…LOL. Ah, I’m sorry, I just think it’s really funny… Gotta have a laugh every now and then at the guy stuff and why they act a certain way…:)

  18.  #18April Rose on March 2, 2015 at 2:43 pm


    Easing myself out of ‘mistake’ zone. No April, you are not going to give yourself a hard time.
    It’s all about learning, remember.

    I had a worry about money. I said something about not knowing If I have enough for a weekend away.

    I didn’t feel good bringing up money with a new man.


    Digging into what feels more authentic, I feel something along the lines of
    “Thank you for your invitation. It feels so good when you spoil me. It feels romantic. It doesn’t feel feminine to me to handle money around you. Thank you for taking care of this.”

    What do you think, sirens? Is it too much?

  19.  #19April Rose on March 2, 2015 at 2:49 pm

    Thank you Labbit,

    You’ve got me pondering now.

    Mostly I want to be sure I am high degree of difficulty. I don’t want to lower my value in any way.

    Hmmm. Going away with him so soon may make him think I am ‘his’ after such a short time.

    And yet…and yet… To spend such a concentrated period of time with someone will really show up the muck, won’t it? Neither of us will be able to hide ourselves. It could save a lot of time in finding out who each other is and whether we can live with it!!!

  20.  #20April Rose on March 2, 2015 at 2:51 pm

    I could really do with being made love to for three whole days…. 😉

  21.  #21Gemini Goddess on March 2, 2015 at 3:44 pm

    Oh, April Rose-

    That sounds just fantastic. About going away so quickly, my take is if you can think of it as YOU could love and leave HIM, then go for it! It sounds like you’d really like to go, so thinking ONLY about what YOU want, which is my current version of leaning back, indulge yourself! 🙂 Be made love to and spoiled for three days. Think of it as a fabulous spa treatment, which by the way, will make him crazy.

    Your degree of difficulty will also be obvious when you get back and DON’T lose your head over this guy. I’d make sure I had iron clad plans that I was really looking forward to, that do not involve him, already in place for the weekend afterwards. A built in “lean back”.

    Whether he is or isn’t a player won’t change by you going away with him for the weekend, but you WILL get spoiled regardless, which you totally deserve. 🙂 Just be totally ready to casually walk afterwards, same as any other date. No harm, no foul.


  22.  #22Lovergirl on March 2, 2015 at 3:52 pm

    @ April Rose-

    If a man invites me anywhere, I assume he is paying for everything and don’t worry about money at all. If he expected me to pay, after being the one to invite, well then I would express surprise. I would be thankful and express a lot of appreciation but never mention any thoughts about paying for myself (still, I would try to have some money on me for emergency purposes).

    As far as flowers on the first date, I have gotten them and always felt suspicious. :p I am so leery of men. I am glad you are able to enjoy the things he is giving and doing for you and able to receive. That would feel lovely.

  23.  #23April Rose on March 2, 2015 at 3:57 pm

    Gemini Goddess,

    I am smiling from ear to ear reading what you wrote to me.

  24.  #24April Rose on March 2, 2015 at 4:01 pm


    Yes, I’m getting that way too about being invited somewhere and expecting he will pay. He has done so far.
    It was me, and me NV’s that brought up the money. He then told me not to worry about money.

    The flowers were a gift on the fourth date, which happened after I had been out of town for five days (so he had to wait to see me).
    It’s true what they say, that men fall for us in our absence (and we fall for them in their presence – which incidentally is what helps us forget about the unavailables!!)

  25.  #25Gemini Goddess on March 2, 2015 at 4:03 pm

    Azure Blu and Labbit

    Thank you, thank you!

    I like hearing how others process the messy bits, too!

    Labbit – You are correct. Sure didn’t feel great at the time, but it was worth it.

    April Rose – WooHoo!!!!

  26.  #26Lotus on March 2, 2015 at 4:03 pm

    Oh ladies, so many wonderful things I’m reading about in the siren journeys from the last thread too.

    Yet I am feeling really sad tonight and want to write a bit and need to be held. I just had a really difficult conversation with my H on the phone, so many tears together, he emailed me another letter last night telling me he’s willing to do anything to rebuild and change, and I felt it was time for me to tell him what’s been on my mind, and everything came out, I told him I don’t love him enough to rebuild, that there’s no going back, that I want our separation to be official or be talking about a divorce.

    It was horrible, he was crying and heartbroken, he’s not sleeping and has nightmares, and was more vulnerable than me, told me he’s scared, he doesn’t want me to leave him, and that he’ll die without me. I feel a bit angry, feels like emotional blackmail.

    The long and short of it, is that I told him to promise me he will get help, as he thinks there’s something wrong with him psychologically. I know he’s going through a deep crisis, and it pains me I can’t be there for him, and I told him I can’t be with him out of pity, that he needs to show me he can look after himself.

    This feels so awful, I concerned for him as he feels isolated, so I have called his sister and want to make sure he has support.

    I feel so sad because I still love him, but I need a strong, gentle man who can love me right, I feel I’m abandoning him. Why did I attract such a damaged man? Although he was my rock for a long time after my mum died, he did take care of me. I told him maybe that’s why he met me, so I could help him realise what needs to be healed. He said I touch him so deeply, that I shine a light on what he needs to do, that I give him hope, that I’m the most special and unique person he’s had in his life. I told him it’s all too late for him to realise, and that he needed to hold me close when I needed him the most, not be holding onto another fantasy relationship or woman who lives thousands of miles away.

    He’s begging me to give him a chance, he tells me I’m so good for him, and I told him he’s not the match for me anymore.

    I am breathing deep, my shoulders feel so tense, my stomach in knots. I feel terrified he will do something stupid. I’ve never heard him cry so much. This man is not a crier. I’ve asked him to promise me he will see a counsellor through my contact. I’m trying to help him without giving myself to him, so will get his family to contact him, to check he’s ok.

  27.  #27Lovergirl on March 2, 2015 at 4:04 pm

    Ah, flowers on the fourth date and after an absence sounds so much sweeter. 🙂 How nice to feel missed. I think its so weird that men fall in love so differently than we do, but I am glad to be opening my eyes to it all.

  28.  #28Lovergirl on March 2, 2015 at 4:06 pm

    (((Lotus))) How agonizing. I feel for you having to go through all that and be worried about his feelings.

  29.  #29April Rose on March 2, 2015 at 4:14 pm


    Begging, I’m sure, is not very attractive.

    Makes me feel squirmy for the times I have been so needy and in longing for my loved one.

    It looks like he is sure of what he wants though. Though how much of that is real and how much is through desperation remains to be seen.

  30.  #30Lotus on March 2, 2015 at 4:18 pm

    Thanks Lovergirl.

    I feel bad for posting such a heavy one. Bt.. I feel so heavy.

    Also so good to see the wonderful growth that’s happening on here… LTD, GG, Mistea

    Labbit – I love your metaphor of the waves. Right now I have huge crashing over me, and I’ve just been taken into the depths and now coming up for air. A painful crash, and slapped onto the cold hard wet beach. Thud. Can’t leave yet….

    Indigo – I’m delighted for your luxury hotel break.

    I know his business is his business, and the man needs to take care of himself, yet I know he’s struggling and has asked for my help. Urgh…

  31.  #31Gemini Goddess on March 2, 2015 at 4:30 pm


  32.  #32Gemini Goddess on March 2, 2015 at 4:51 pm

    P.S. I am going to take in this Business Siren program through my pores! Of all the aspects of my life, my professional life is a bit anemic(?), and does not please me.

    I’m not sorry I spent my twenties flying around the world, and my thirties home with kids…but what now? I am not a “Type A” personality in terms of work, not sure where I fit in.

  33.  #33Zia on March 2, 2015 at 5:33 pm

    Perfect timing. Thanks for this Rori 🙂

  34.  #34Andrea on March 2, 2015 at 5:48 pm

    hi Sirens. I’m writing to check in and to say I’ve definitely been reading and I appreciate this new post by Rori.
    I feel it is very timely as I’ve had this nagging fear for a while now (probably some strange subconscious thing) that I have to choose.. either business success and my career dreams coming true, OR having the love of my life. Dont’ know why I’ve felt that way but I’m excited to dive into that and get this new

    I feel very weak and like a failure when it comes to men and dating. I’ve pushed everyone away and don’t feel open and joyful around men anymore. I’ve had two counseling sessions with my therapist and hopefully I’ll find some equilibrium here soon.

    I just found out on Saturday that RRguy is VERY married. Even though I hadn’t heard from him, nor made any attempt to contact him since Feb 14th, I felt like I’d been sucker punched.

    Two professionals were in the hotel talking about this attorney they were very impressed with. One of the men said, “Oh, I know her husband: (RRguy)”

    I said, “Who is her husband?”

    He said, “Oh you probably know him too, he stays here a lot… (RRguy)”

    So I googled her name and oh my.. sure enough.. on her business website there she is Mrs. RRguy. Pictures of her beautiful happy marriage and her sun shiney extremely beautiful children, her huge wedding ring, and her arm around the man that I’ve been sleeping with since October.

    I feel sick. I feel like a huge huge huge failure. I feel like wasted time, space, and all those thoughts and hopes and ideas I (so stupidly) tried to hold on to. I feel like a big loser. But there’s also something else… it’s like….

    Is it me?? Like.. what is it about me? What is it that makes a man think of me as “fun time Andi”… good for laughs and screws.. but not good enough to marry.

    I do feel like that. Like something’s wrong with me, like I should be able to learn from stuff like this, this hurt, these false hopes, false starts, and DO better. Ugh.

    I also wonder … there’s just something about… the type of man who has this beautiful family, beautiful, successful wife, and not even she is “good” enough to keep his ass from straying.

    I don’t want to be on this side of these relationships anymore. I don’t want to be a wife who’s husband cheats on her either.

    I just feel so awful.

  35.  #35Femininewoman on March 2, 2015 at 6:13 pm

    Oh wow Andrea

  36.  #36Mistea1 on March 2, 2015 at 6:33 pm

    Oh, Andrea, a big hug to you. Keep strong. It’s almost over and you will survive. I’m so glad you’re being supported by a therapist.You’ve learned a lot.

    I’m so impressed at how you did call the whole lot of them and got rid of them earlier. And you found out about RRguy when you did. After you dumped him too. Your intuition at the time drink or not was right on. Very impressive.

    I’m remembering comments you’ve made here that were so insightful we were all blessed by them. You know this because I wrote you about them.

    You are a good, kind, insightful, intuitive, beautiful woman. These are but a few of them as I see them. I’m sure there are many more.

    That said after you feel better, continue dating and looking but you might want to add background checks to the mix. You might also want to consider not dating men who are traveling like that as picking the diamond out of that rough is probably really hard. Just something to consider.

  37.  #37Dominique on March 2, 2015 at 6:53 pm

    Mandy – 17 – If you’re really interested and want more information, I’ve been teaching since the course’s inception. Please feel free to email me.


  38.  #38Dominique on March 2, 2015 at 6:58 pm

    Lotus – 26 – I feel so very proud of you. This took so much courage and strength. 🙂 I understand your concerns and fears, yet none of this is for you to shoulder.

    Love to you.


  39.  #39Andrea on March 2, 2015 at 7:09 pm

    Thank you Mistea. I actually did do a background check on this guy.. well… as much as I knew how… and found nothing except his own private profile on facebook with pics of just him and two boys.. a whole fake profile, made up to look like his life was exactly the way he told me it was.

    He looks like a single father with two boys who works very busily in the Railroad business.
    He had told me to call him anytime. He had told me that he wanted to take his two boys and my two girls and I on a skiing trip at the end of Feb. He was talking to me in January about moving to his city so then we could be together every day. Ugh. So many of his stories were corroborated by what I found about him online.

    But.. ugh… I just feel depleted. I feel silly for having hoped so much, with really so little to go on. Not silly… something more icky.

    I feel so inside out. All through some of those months I would be feeling like I had made some mistake, I had pushed, or had the wrong energy, or said the wrong thing, and that’s why he went so long with out contacting me. I kept trying to DO this Rori thing the right way so that he would come around.

    Now I realize… It wouldn’t have mattered what I did. He really did only want a fling in my city while he was here on work. I just feel so so done.

    And (I don’t know if anyone can understand this) I also feel jealous. So jealous of the wife… even though she’s with a cheating husband, she gets that drama, that “life” with him, gets those beautiful children and that smile and those family photos, and the life that I keep thinking I want to have.

    I feel so scared that I’m going end up, after all, alone, and always on the outside looking in, and always on the low rung of the totem pole, always the one with the longing instead of the fulfillment.

    And the wives get to have their families and their stability and partnerships and health insurances and homes and vehicles and help with the children and future plans and vacations together and that something… that serenity at the end of the night when they are curled up in the arms of their man. And I have never had the chance to experience that yet. I’ve never got to feel… sure!

    And yes, I’m really feeling sorry for myself tonight. And actually I’m pretty scared. If this is who I pick… what if this is all that’s available? What if I don’t get to choose actual happiness? What if it’s either.. be happy by myself, or be happy with a man I’m not really attracted to and don’t really want to be with.

    Darn it!!!

  40.  #40prplpsn28 on March 2, 2015 at 7:11 pm


  41.  #41Posie on March 2, 2015 at 8:02 pm

    Wow Andrea. Just wow! I’ve been reading along with your story for the last month or so and I am just so stuck at wow. My heart is really going out to you right now. And then, you said something that felt healing to me on my own journey. You talked about how you had spent so much time in the relationship wondering what you had done wrong or if you might have pushed him away or had the wrong energy…. But now you know that you didn’t. You REALLY didn’t. All along, your intuition was telling you that this just wasn’t quite right. YOU were PERFECT the whole time. There was nothing you could have done to bring him closer to you and you were right the WHOLE time. What a gift to know how much trust you can now have in your own guts. And you are such a beautiful juicy Siren Andrea! I promise you that! Time will pass and I’m sure your feelings will change with just a little healing. You’ve been through a lot. It makes sense that you feel the way you do right now. But it doesn’t mean you won’t feel differently later – strong and beautiful and confident again.

    I guess for me it is, in what could be a certain amount of darkness, a feeling of truthfulness. Our intuition is right and we don’t have to doubt ourselves.

    I was reading GG’s story earlier as well where she reminded me of the benefit of not overthinking or obsessively assessing the the things I say or do with a man. The kind of companion I am looking for won’t run away from my awkwardness or judge me harshly. If you can screw it all up with one text or one call it’s probably not the right one. I just have to be me, as honest, sincere, and compassionate as I can be. And my kind of companion won’t leave me doubting or second guessing myself.

    Someone that I haven’t paid much attention to has been chasing me (JAF) Very persistent. But I just haven’t felt chemistry with him. Connection without chemistry I suppose. And in my recent successful escape from someone who read very close in description to RRGuy (BCF) I have started to ask myself why I am so darn addicted to unavailability (chemistry without connection). Especially when there is a good hearted man (JAF) looking for an opening in my heart. Well, today JAF sent me a message and told me I was a “fascinating person,” in a “captivating and attractive way” he said. I let it wash over me and smiled out loud. It felt sincere. When BCF said those things, it gave me twinges of doubt… I think that was my intuition talking, looking back at it now. So today I tried to let myself enjoy JAF’s sincerity, and I tried to feel myself as fascinating, captivating, and attractive.

    And then shook all of it off. The things I’ve read, lingering thoughts of BCF, melty heart from JAF. I’m learning from all of this. Feels kind to myself to move slowly and learn.

  42.  #42Andrea on March 2, 2015 at 8:32 pm

    Posie, thank you. Tears here. I wasn’t looking at it in the way you did. Now I realize… oh man… Posie you’re so ON!!

    I was bashing myself for not being able to “figure it out” to DO something differently. I was perfect except for all the self bashing and self doubt. I CAN trust my intuition. hmmmm

    Thank you.

  43.  #43Lovergirl on March 2, 2015 at 9:59 pm

    In my earlier comment I mentioned that my guy says he doesn’t think its a good idea to have a sexual/emotional thing with me anymore. I was so caught up in that part that I forgot to mention he APOLOGIZED to me for the hurtful things he said awhile back during the miscarriage. That was actually kind of big because he brought it up on his own. I just told him “I accept your apology” and left it at that. I do feel better, because it felt sincere.

    I broke down and cried a little bit tonight (not to him, just by myself). I just feel sad that he doesn’t want to spend his life with me. So many of the things he does, the way he behaves, the comments he has made, seem to contradict that.

    Like, if he doesn’t want me involved in his life forever, then why does he want me to be his business partner?? I’m the only person he has working with him. How is that going to work out, for either of us, if he were to fall in love with someone else? Plus wouldn’t she be annoyed that he is partnering with a woman who had two miscarriages with him? Does he even think this through?

    Then tonight he called me a SECOND time, supposedly about business related stuff. He was IN BED when he called and complained about having to get up to check on something that it turned out I was right and he was wrong about. He actually acknowledged I was right (wow!) but then claimed he was right about something else so we were “even”. He really wasn’t right about that either but I kept my mouth shut. He’s really the only one worried about being “right”. Such a typical man.

    Anyhow, he made a sexual comment about me that I ignored. He actually made a couple during our earlier conversation too. For someone who is telling me he doesn’t want to sleep together any longer, he sure makes a lot of sexual jokes. It kind of makes me inwardly roll my eyes and think yeah buddy, this may end up being a lot harder on you than it is for me. :p

  44.  #44Mistea1 on March 2, 2015 at 10:11 pm

    Andrea 39,

    Now, now, perhaps it’s time to put Andrea into a tub with lots of bubbles and some soft music. You’ve had a rough time lately. It won’t always be this way and you get to pick remember that.

  45.  #45Mistea1 on March 2, 2015 at 10:16 pm

    Andrea 39,

    Oops, my finger twitched. I wanted to say that a long time ago I found Course on Miracles. I still use the principles today. I notice Marianne Williamson does a talk on it every Monday night. Tonight she really related to what you are going through.

  46.  #46Mistea1 on March 2, 2015 at 10:34 pm

    Lotus 26,
    Oh gosh, I went through similar with my ex. All the weeping (him) and manipulating, and trying to get him to go to counseling.

    Finally I held steadfast as gently as I could. I even moved out of the state and took a job elsewhere. Six weeks later he called and said, we should go ahead with the divorce. He had gone to the priest and got introduced to a woman and he was happily bedding her probably before my car had driven into the next state.

    So that’s how he fixed the problem. So much for how much he cared for me cry, manipulate etc. Oh well that’s my story.

  47.  #47Zia on March 2, 2015 at 10:37 pm

    lovergirl – I have caught up with the blog and also, your story (haven’t been on for a few weeks) and firstly just want to envelop you in a warm hug… because so much of what you write and your experiences with the guy you’re hung up on mirror mine in the past. and i am sure a few other sirens her.

    i want to comment on one thing in a previous thread you wrote: “The truth though, is that I am very much in love with the guy I had the miscarriage with. He’s everything I could ever want in a man……”

    except…. he isn’t. he doesn’t cherish you. he doesn’t adore you. he doesn’t look after you and protect you and your feelings. he doesn’t pursue you.

    one very important thing i learned, is that we want what we want in a relationship – and the WHO does not matter. if a man is good looking and smart and sexy and blah blah blah but he does not treat us in a way that makes us feel special, loved, cared for, cherished….. he is not the right guy. find a man who makes you feel all those wonderful things RIGHT NOW. not a man who once did, or you hope will one day. one who does it *right now*

    i spent the first 13 years of my dating life chasing after ideals, and “what ifs” and “he was so wonderful at the start”s….. and i finally now have my “loves me, cherishes me, adores me, protects me”. i don’t want any other women to spend as much time as i did finally working it out.

    love to you xo

  48.  #48Mistea1 on March 2, 2015 at 10:40 pm

    Andrea 39,

    Here’s my snarky, sarcastic self if you can indulge me. It’s my dark humor 🙂

    So you feel jealous of that woman curled up in the arms of her man? Would you like to be her on the nights when he’s out and you are curled up in his arms? I thought not. That’s no stability and no partnership either. I feel sorry for her.

  49.  #49Zia on March 2, 2015 at 10:41 pm

    lovergirl – also, there is nothing really to work out here. you give him everything he needs right now, its just that what he needs is you to help him with his business, be there when he calls to do what he needs to you to do. and he knows this. it might be worth trying to see if there are any other opportunities work wise available to you so that you can cut ties completely – as this will give you a true indication of his intentions. with my last ex before my current bf, he said all sorts of things after we broke up about maybe getting back together but no action on his part, because i made it convenient for him. when i decided to cease contact with him, i never heard from him again. but then my current bf and i got together a month later and i have never been happier 🙂

    create the space for the wonderful man you deserve to come and sweep you off your feet…….

  50.  #50Azure Blu on March 2, 2015 at 11:43 pm

    Thank you… these are the words i need to hear…

    lovely, lovely Siren
    Wow… I am sooo sorry for your gut punch!
    But YOUR intuition was SOO right on!!

    My intuition has told me Something has been off with Spirit since we met… 7 months
    Not having been to his house (he did invite me once but i didn’t make it over) or met any friends..
    We had a big fight 3 weeks ago…
    A few text here and there…
    I have kept leaning back (Ohhhh such missing, misery, yearning)
    Should I lean forward? Spirit did make many changes…
    But after reading about RRguy…
    I believe MY intuition IS right… something is clearly off here!
    I will continue forward and
    leave room in my heart and life to find my Mr. Right!!!!

  51.  #51Indigo on March 2, 2015 at 11:53 pm


    This is a great case for only dating guys who live in your city and can make themselves available to you on a normal, regular basis….

    I cannot help thinking that long distance romances cannot but create these feelings of longing…

    And of course I absolutely agree with Mistea. If you were that wife lying in bed alone while her husband was travelling, knowing in your gut something was not right, seeing the sneaky evasive behaviour, smelling some other woman’s perfume on your husband’s clothes when you did his laundry – You would be on Siren Island singing a different kind of heartache, but heartache nonetheless.

    Love to you x

  52.  #52Sami Wunder on March 2, 2015 at 11:55 pm

    # Andrea

    My heart goes out to you for the pain and disappointment you are feeling right now.

    And – it´s not your fault !!!!
    I know we feel a compulsive urge to figure out what we did wrong but trust me you did NOTHING wrong. It just is .. how it turned out to be. Please take care not to beat yourself up about it. The more we beat ourselves up, the more we attract people and situations in life that beat us up.

    So please, you did nothing wrong, you are AWESOME (and you truly are – I´ve followed many of your posts on this blog).

    Love to you and it´s time to take A lot of good care of your hurting soul right now.

    Happy to speak with you personally if you need to.

    Love, Sami

  53.  #53Indigo on March 3, 2015 at 2:02 am


    I also love what Sami has said to you! Let go of any idea of blame of yourself, let go of any idea that you did something wrong! Shower yourself with compassion and remind yourself how amazing you are. We all think so and we cannot all be wrong 🙂

  54.  #54Femininewoman on March 3, 2015 at 2:34 am

    Andrea I love what Posie wrote to you. Also Sami. It is just so difficult for us to find balance and comfort in such situations but you have to find the message from this man to you, the lesson there that you must learn. I personally just never felt comfortable reading about dating those men passing through and staying in the hotel. I thought it was just too easy and just too filled with all kinds of possible innuendos. Hotels are places where all kinds of cheating go and I just believe that men expect us to just get it.

  55.  #55Indigo on March 3, 2015 at 2:35 am

    April Rose 18,

    The first part of your script sounds great:

    ““Thank you for your invitation. It feels so good when you spoil me. It feels romantic. It doesn’t feel feminine to me to handle money around you.”

    This bit “Thank you for taking care of this” feels a little heavy handed if he hasn’t actually said that he will take care of the money aspect… I would try being a bit more authentic still, for example:

    “I feel worried that I do not have enough for a weekend away”

    A good man will usually make it clear whether he is treating you/paying for everything so you don’t have to worry or wonder.

  56.  #56Indigo on March 3, 2015 at 2:46 am


  57.  #57Indigo on March 3, 2015 at 2:51 am

    Lovergirl 43,

    I have noticed that you often use sexual and emotional as if they are interchangeable. Please remember that to a man, they are not the same at all. Sexual arousal and emotional connection can have nothing to do with each other for a man. So, he can easily make sexual innuendos to you and not desire to be in any kind of relationship. Please remember that. Women in general form an emotional bond at the same time as a sexual one, but for a man it might be there, but it also might not. It’s a similar thing with work. A man can easily be a business partner with a woman or work with her and not desire a relationship. Men generally have things in compartments and the relationship compartment is completely separate from the work and sex compartments.

  58.  #58Azure Blu on March 3, 2015 at 5:30 am

    As a note:
    I have a girl friend who lives in Chicago and works in my college town.
    She stays at a Holiday Inn. I have known her for 3 years.
    She has a group of men friends that also stay at the same Holiday Inn…
    All are married…
    All have mistresses in several towns!
    It is astonishing to me…
    Right now one of the men (who flirted with me until I told him I don’t date married men) has been out of work
    but continues to come to my town
    and tell his wife he is working…
    I imagine he is soooo familiar with being
    apart it feels overwhelming to be with her for
    too much time…

    I agree with Indigo…
    Even before Rori… i believed long distance
    is just tooo problematic and too easy for a man to
    hide the truth…
    It has always been my boundary…

  59.  #59Indigo on March 3, 2015 at 5:52 am

    Feminine Woman 53,

    About the men in hotels… I used to believe the same thing about men I met in nightclubs. One day I just decided to make it a boundary that I never dated men I met in nightclubs, until the urge to go to nightclubs stopped altogether for me. I have a friend or two who proved me wrong – ie. they ended up marrying someone they met in a nightclub – but for me it was just about my vibe, about the message I was sending out into the world.

    Oh Azure Blu, my boss is like one of those men you described. He is not married, but he travels a lot (at least 50% of the time) and he has at least 3 girlfriends that we know of.

  60.  #60Mistea1 on March 3, 2015 at 6:00 am

    Zia 47,

    Thank you so much for this, “we want what we want and the WHO doesn’t matter.” . .” doesn’t treat us right he is not the man,”

    MusicTd was the most sexy, ideal I could ever ask for, world famous and he was interested, up to a point. He plays music like a god.

    Oh my, I tried every which way in my mind to excuse his increasingly bad behavior.
    His immaturity is monumental. His insecurity is astounding. Blah, blah, blah.

    I had given myself a deadline last summer of 6 months. AT five months I couldn’t take the emotional toll on me and Dec 29 2014 was the last day I saw him in person.
    It’s getting easier now but I still need the reinforcement and I’m so glad women like you are reiterating this. I’d rather have someone who cares about me rather than chasing some ideal.

  61.  #61Andrea on March 3, 2015 at 6:13 am

    Thank you everyone. I felt all on the fritz yesterday because it was the first time I’d seen actual “proof” that what my intuition was screaming at me was true.

    I sent a very hasty, angry, hurt stained message to RRguy yesterday morning which I now regret. I was mainly angry at him for telling me that I saw “so Low” and “so needy” because I asked him point blank if he was married, back when I made that drunken phone call.

    He re-iterated once again that he wasn’t married and he could have many women but he was choosing me… then he sent that text that said… “but not anymore.” Anyway Ick!

    I sent a message to him saying, “I can’t change anything that happened and yes I’m angry and hurt and disgusted right now, but I can put this behind me and move on and never see you again; But you will always have to live with yourself and that nagging certainty that you are a liar and a cheat and in no way do you deserve that beautiful wife of yours.”

    I wrote that to him. This morning I kept thinking… why did I say, “You don’t deserve your wife?” What in the hell??? Why aren’t I thinking and why wasn’t I thinking… “This man doesn’t deserve ME?”

    One thing that I’m taking to my therapist sessions is this idea that I don’t think I’m worthy of … (having it all?) The real good stuff? We are trying to ferret out this underlying message I replay over to myself that I don’t deserve…. authentic, genuine, peace, love, happiness, joy, wealth, health, relationship….

    This is the real hard work. It really is hard work!!! My gosh.
    This morning I feel forgiveness wash over me and a gentle type of shrug of the shoulders that episode is over with now. I feel, “I forgive you Andrea.”

    thank you for all the soothing responses. I feel way too embarrassed to tell anybody that I know here. I really feel like I was duped and like I’m way too old for this type of thing. Jeesh…. yes ashamed and embarrassed and gentle forgiveness are what I feel this morning.

  62.  #62Mistea1 on March 3, 2015 at 6:14 am

    Azure Blu 50,

    What happened? Thought we ageed to move on. It’s so hard I know. The yearning and longing are overpowering I know.

    But times awasting girl. The guy who loves you and worships the ground you walk on is just around the corner.

    Make sure you turn the corner just like Andrea has done. I’m cheering you on.

  63.  #63Femininewoman on March 3, 2015 at 6:16 am

    Indigo I know it doesn’t apply to all men and my job has taken me to places where I have lived for extended periods in hotels so I have seen and experienced a lot. Even male married colleagues that I had gotten close to have shared their experiences and choices they have made. I guess this has colored my worldview a bit so I am not yet ready to let it go. Too many things can happen around the hotel industry.

  64.  #64Femininewoman on March 3, 2015 at 6:21 am

    Andrea if I tell you a story of how I was duped out of money maybe you would laugh at me. If you ask me life happens. Also if you ask my I would suggest that maybe a lesson for you is going back to saying no. Say no to the men who get your juices flowing and get you all hot and turned on. Practice saying no to these guys who want to take you out. See how hard they will work to get what they can’t have and how much they will work to get you to change your mind.

  65.  #65Femininewoman on March 3, 2015 at 6:23 am

    Btw trust that he knows you meant he does not deserve you when you told him he does not deserve his wife.

  66.  #66Indigo on March 3, 2015 at 6:27 am

    Andrea 61,

    “Why aren’t I thinking and why wasn’t I thinking… “This man doesn’t deserve ME?” ”

    You have awareness now, and with awareness you can do anything. Awareness is the beginning of healing. You can celebrate because it’s already started.

    The truth is, maybe he does deserve his wife, and maybe she deserves him. Maybe she is on her own learning journey right now to where she needs to be. But YOU got out of that situation – you were spared this man – and that is another cause for celebration.

  67.  #67Azure Blu on March 3, 2015 at 6:31 am

    Ahhh.. I;m still online dating…
    but turning the corner to letting go of Rob
    my Confused Voices telling me…
    Love means… working hard…
    an adoring easy man is boring…
    I am unworthy of LOVE…
    FEAR of loosing a wonderful man…

    yesterday I had an overwhelming episode to text or call Spirit… explain everything
    see what he was thinking…

    But I am soooo proud… I gave myself lots of LOVE,
    LOVE< LOVE… sat with the mind, heart, body changing feelings and let it go…

  68.  #68April Rose on March 3, 2015 at 6:38 am

    Big big hugs to all you wonderful ladies

  69.  #69April Rose on March 3, 2015 at 6:43 am

    I finally know what it feels like to have interest, attention, and masculine cherishing coming towards me.
    I have never known a man pick up the ball and run with it before.
    I can see it happening because I am doing nothing.

    So, so grateful am I for Rori, and you, and the blog.

    Andrea, so much of what you have written on this blog over time, has inspired me on my path. I have made a huge shift along with you. I am attracting genuine authentic and loving men now, and so will you.

  70.  #70April Rose on March 3, 2015 at 6:45 am

    I felt angry this morning.

    At myself, or rather the part of myself that has put my precious self into the hands of men who did not take care of me.

    For accepting UNWORTHY men into my heart and my body and my life.

    NO MORE.

    This is my promise to my inner girl.

  71.  #71April Rose on March 3, 2015 at 6:49 am

    I don’t even know if I knew what a worthy man looked and felt like.

    I’m starting to find out. And, Wow. What a turn on!

    There is no going back to anything less.

  72.  #72Mistea1 on March 3, 2015 at 6:50 am

    April Rose 70,

    Yes, April Rose, you deserve it you really do.

  73.  #73Andrea on March 3, 2015 at 7:06 am

    Yay! April Rose!!! Everything!! I feel teary eyed and heart cracking open: yes ANGRY
    “At myself, or rather the part of myself that has put my precious self into the hands of men who did not take care of me.

    For accepting UNWORTHY men into my heart and my body and my life.”

    And ooooohhhh I love reading about the good stuff!! That’s inspiring.

    Feminine Woman, no. I would never laugh. It hurts to imagine that happening to anyone. Duped out of money, dignity, hopes.. ugh. I can definitely see HOW it can happen though.
    I’m really seeing the hotel scene though for what it is. Yes, many married men have hit on me and tried to seduce me with gifts, flattery..etc… since I started working at my hotel. But, I took pride in the fact that I was so wise, I could tell they were married and I turned them down flat. ick! Who wants a married man sucking on their teets for ego attention and sex. Not me!!!

    Hah!! So wise I was.

    I’m definitely a different person at my desk now. I don’t want to be hard and cold. Right now, I admit, I am. But that’s just that I’m chaffing right now. I hope I get my joy back, my heat back, my passion. Right now I just feel like: Back Off Everyone!

    My therapist said I need to remember this mantra: I owe no man anything except “thank-you” and a smile. Even if they give me a huge gift, or take me out to dinner, or flatter me, or … anything.
    “Thank-you” and a smile.

    : )

  74.  #74Mistea1 on March 3, 2015 at 7:22 am

    Somethings I learned from all this.
    Before I knew about Rori I would talk a blue streak to any man. Once i knew to let the man lead and not talk so much I learned a lot. MusicTd is a man of few words and it took a lot to get him to do the talking. But when he did he dug himself in deep to my edification. Wow, what I learned.

    The second thing I learned was about trust and my intuition. I didn’t realize how little I trusted myself, my man, and the universe. How damaging that was/is. My intuition hadn’t been dusted off in quite a few years. How grateful I am to know it’s working just fine and i can trust it to guide me.

  75.  #75Azure Blu on March 3, 2015 at 7:29 am

    I feel angry that RRguy continues to lie to you
    about his marital status!!!
    it feels frightening to know there are such liers out there…
    I certainly know this is NOT gender specific…
    I’ve heard stories from men about women just as deceitful
    Such self LOVE that you had backed way off from RRguy!
    I feel good that you textd him about his lieing!!
    Sometimes it is good to let them know
    YOU KNOW they LIED!!!

  76.  #76Gemini Goddess on March 3, 2015 at 8:57 am

    Hi Andrea-

    I wanted to add something that has been a tendency of mine in any situation, but especially in my experience with “that kind of guy”, and it’s taken me until Rori Raye work to figure it out.

    I blamed myself for YEARS (decades actually I’m pained to admit) for what happened to me with my “out of town guy/cheating guy”. What I finally, FINALLY realized about 4 months ago, which may not sound profound, but had a profound affect on ME is (hope I can articulate here) that whenever I felt out of control…I wanted control…when I wanted control, the only way to feel like I HAD control was to make everything that had happened and was happening MY fault, my sole responsibility…that I had had and have control the whole time and had somehow done it all to myself. It put me back in the drivers seat. I believe this is if not the same thing, at least a cousin of “be surprised” in the sense that it’s the flip side. I understand that we need to be accountable for our actions, and to a degree what happens to us…but only to a reasonable degree. We have no control whatsoever over everyone else, their agendas, baggage and journey. VERY hard for me to remember sometimes. I don’t like feeling out of control, though I’m getting better at at least tolerating it.

    What I found out is that until I forgave myself, as in reframed the story as myself having been a sweet, open-hearted girl who was hoping beyond hope for love, I couldn’t move forward with my current guy. Oddly (or not) I couldn’t forgive HIM for having a past until I did. It took a ton of journaling to get there, and felt like a flooding epiphany. Hopefully you can just skip to the good part where you were and are awesome, open-hearted, hoping for love, and sh*t just happened that you couldn’t control.

    For what it’s worth, I think you did everything right and it’s all on him.


  77.  #77Gemini Goddess on March 3, 2015 at 9:03 am

    Mistea1 – 74

    Love this. I feel the same way. I often used to diagnose my problem as I did not trust my intuition.

    AND, I used to just talk, talk, talk. If they paid less attention to me, I’d assume I want’ talking enough. So glad THAT’S over.

  78.  #78Gemini Goddess on March 3, 2015 at 9:10 am

    Zia 47

    “one very important thing i learned, is that we want what we want in a relationship – and the WHO does not matter.”

    Hard won, and invaluable knowledge…for sure! Thanks for the reminder.

  79.  #79Indigo on March 3, 2015 at 9:13 am

    Gemini Goddess 76,

    I love this!

    The way it feels helpful to me is to think about it in terms of fault versus responsibility. Bad things that happen to me in my life are not my fault (I mean, sometimes they may be, like if my electricity gets cut off because I didn’t pay my bill), but my life, myself, what happens to me after IS my responsibility. This helps to restore my sense of “control” as it were, as in what I DO have control over. As in, this bad thing happened to me – what can I do for myself now? What can I take out of this going forward? How can I own this situation which puts it to my best advantage? How can I do my best to stop any further negative consequences coming out of it? For me, that’s my way of learning and moving forward, of not making it a meaningless, senseless tragedy that happened to me. Not letting it own how I behave going forward, except in a positive way.

  80.  #80Gemini Goddess on March 3, 2015 at 9:16 am

    Indigo –

    THAT is awesome, and brings it full circle. Perfect! Thank you!!!!!

  81.  #81Femininewoman on March 3, 2015 at 9:22 am

    Andrea a married friend of mine told me the same thing when we were sitting at a table at an event and one guy was obviously hitting on me. She basically said just smile and look pretty. Believe that men don’t expect sex and if they are really interested they won’t go anywhere if there is none. They really want you to make them wait anyway. It heightens the excitement and the passion for them.

  82.  #82Caroline on March 3, 2015 at 12:35 pm


    Help!!! I started dating a guy and everything was going good. After our 4th date he stoped texting and when he did it was short. I asked him what was going on he told me he has some family issues. Who knows. I stepped back and now he is retexting me here and there. What should I do?

    On another note an ex-flame found me and we reconnected. We had a nice get away. I would like to see him but he left for Hawaii for 3 weeks. UGH. He has sent a few pictures and text, but I am also taking a step back and giving him his space. I hope this a good thing to do. I found myself developing feelings for him again too.

    I basically have 2 guys right now in the picture and this is a first for me. What should I do with both men? Please help me Rori..

    Thank You,

  83.  #83Violette on March 3, 2015 at 2:25 pm

    Andrea your post really reminded of me a man I dated like 10 years ago. I’ve recently been doing forgiveness work on him and am shocked at how much anger, pain and shame I have around it. How has this been affecting my choices all these years?

    Experiences like this have made me so bitter and angry with men, and I am so happy to be working through releasing it. I encourage you to get to a place where you can forgive him as soon as possible. Don’t let this experience gain time and power over you.

    And don’t be jealous of his wife (although I would feel and have felt the way you do). She has nothing.

  84.  #84Violette on March 3, 2015 at 2:34 pm

    Thank you for the posts on my earlier writing. It always feels good to be acknowledged.

    Today I want to say something. I don’t remember if I’ve posted it before, but on date 2 I asked A if he was open to splitting life between 2 countries and without a beat he said absolutely. Then one or two months ago I said I was planning a short trip to my other country and he blew up at me, asked me if I had another boyfriend there…I reminded him that I plan on splitting my life there and here one day, when I figure out how. He said that doesn’t work for him and I’ll never find a man who will do that with me.

    I was devastated, never took the trip, never went the extra mile to figure out how. Now whenever I talk about the other country, which is a lot because it is a major part of my personality, and because I miss it badly, he gets weird and uncomfortable.

    Today I am feeling the burn to take action on moving my dream forward somehow, and it’s making me at the same time feel so angry with A, that he would talk to me that way, that he would decide who I need to be.

    He even said that night that his plan for me was to get so much work in my chosen field in my current town that I couldn’t leave.

    That’s fine, and yet I cannot forgive and let go. I’ve tried. I feel so furious with him for NOT SEEING ME and trying to make me conform to HIS life.

    I want so much to break up with him. He’s wrong for me. I feel so uncomfortable most of the time we’re together.

    Then I get a text today telling me how much he appreciates me in his life, how beautiful I am, how he adores and cherishes me.

    I wish in a way he would make it easier for me and break up with me.

  85.  #85Violette on March 3, 2015 at 2:36 pm

    The other thing is, part of me believes him, how will I find a man who wants to live in 2 countries with me? I’d really love to marry someone some day and spend every day together. I get that it’s not impossible, and I also get that it complicates things, and then I feel sad that the things that fill my heart with desire and joy feel unattainable.

  86.  #86Gemini Goddess on March 3, 2015 at 3:32 pm


    I would feel very frustrated. You deserve your dream! 🙂

  87.  #87Zia on March 3, 2015 at 6:36 pm

    I saw Elsie pop up briefly on the previous thread or two, Elsie if you’re reading this I do wonder how everything is with you!

  88.  #88lovetodance on March 3, 2015 at 6:46 pm

    hello sirens…

    catching up with y’all….so much happening here….so much growing, growing up, thru turmoil, deceit, joy, love and everything else….

    want to say thank you for the honesty, rawness, vulnerability, wisdom , compassion and soul searching ness that i glean from these posts….

    this feeds me, nourishes me, helps me….

  89.  #89lovetodance on March 3, 2015 at 6:58 pm


    sweet strong siren….i feel all the posts of support to you have been so right on…

    i am chiming in with Good For You….for cutting it off with him in the different ways you did..before even consciously knowing this was a very sick person….

    someone who can lie and manipulate so well has done it alot and perfected his style….i feel so sorry for any woman who has to endure being his wife….

    you were open hearted and vulnerable….such beautiful qualities….looking for love and connection and belongingness….human healthy drives….

    we are all here finding the way to our selves…learning to trust ourselves more and more…on the road there are slippery slopes, lush meadows, broken glass , lovely vistas , mirages and lovely shores to lay down on and rest…

    you are not to blame for his disturbance….
    you have alot of experiences now to draw from…to add to your book of wisdom and knowledge…to keep kindling your depth and widening your heart…to your beautiful self….overflowing to the people who measure up to you….

    how do we know until we have experienced what is not worthy of us!

    take good care of yourself resilient lovely siren….

  90.  #90lovetodance on March 3, 2015 at 7:05 pm

    gemini goddess

    oh my goodness fun and rocking one….such my pleasure to be there at the right moment saying [thankfully] the right thing!

    you are fun!

    and i am enjoying reading of your journey…trips, falls, glides and savvy winking of the eye!

  91.  #91lovetodance on March 3, 2015 at 7:19 pm

    ohhhhh i am sighing

    well i feel i have graduated into first grade from daycare in my online dating life

    i have been interacting with a few….
    i am not crumbling when one disappears
    i am saying my truth with humor when one appears with what feels like lack of respect
    i am talking to one who is very smart and considerate
    i am talking to one who feels like such a stretch on the outside for me…but whose heart i feel…

    i am juggling my ethics about how i feel about circular dating…

    i am seeing how i have i made my single life quite comfortable for myself…and hear lovely women in my life talking about their relationships and current break-ups and go to myself….’why would i want to get involved again and risk that?’

    oh my

    just looking at soooo much…

    and how quickly my heart gets attached
    and how proud i am of myself of not getting attached to someone who looks attractive…but so not there….

    i am observing how if someone disappears that i liked…how my heart and EGO get involved….when they reappear i go into my ambivalence….for good reason at times….

    oh how i need validation ….how secure it makes me feel…how in control it makes me feel….i am suspicious of myself here…and also want to cut myself alot of slack…and love my need for acceptance and being desired….

    i am rambling….probably journaling is what i need to do now..
    just wanted to check in alittle….

  92.  #92lovetodance on March 3, 2015 at 7:39 pm


    sending you love and hugs….i feel what strength it is taking to bring back your energy into you…

    going forward in clearing the way for the man/men who can give you the respect, love and joy you so deserve….

    men who are on the same page as you….

    men who are dangerous for you in a good way….

  93.  #93Indigo on March 3, 2015 at 8:21 pm

    Caroline 82,

    The answer is not to get invested in either of these men. Circular date! Be open to them when they contact you, but have your own busy life that takes up your time and attention so that you barely think about them if they are not in front of you. Date other men if it feels right to you.

    What both these guys are doing is very typical behavior when things are uncommitted and just at the “dating” phase, so don’t get too hung up on it! 🙂

  94.  #94Tatia Dee on March 3, 2015 at 9:54 pm

    Yay Rori!!

  95.  #95Lovergirl on March 3, 2015 at 11:03 pm

    @47 Zia-

    What throws me off with my guy, is that in many ways he DOES make me feel loved, adored, special, protected and all of that! Then he turns around and says or does something that makes me question everything I’ve been feeling.

    I feel like he has pursued me pretty consistently as far as calling and texting (I hardly ever call or text him first). He’s taken me out on a ton of dates (he has always paid) and loves to have me around just to hang out, even when we aren’t having sex. He’s always been very affectionate and curious about me as a person, asking me all kinds of questions. He tells me I am beautiful all the time, even when I’ve been crying and had swollen eyes and no makeup.

    He’s told me that he was developing feelings for me and that it made him want a “real” relationship with me, but that he doesn’t think its a good idea because of me having 5 kids. He tells me this every few months or so. The last time he went as far as saying he wanted to stop having sex, because he felt like he was getting too attached. He said it made him feel like he was treating me “like a slut” to sleep with me and not have a relationship. So we stopped for awhile and still had a blast together just hanging out (and he seemed to want to see me more than ever). But that was triggering me because of my years and years in an almost sexless marriage and I got upset…so we started sleeping together again.

    Anyway, the confusing part for me is that I FEEL happy with him, most of the time I FEEL more loved than I have with any man in my life. But then he will turn around and start second guessing everything and push me away, like he’s doing now. He never fully pushes me away though, I can still tell he cares, even when he’s upset.

    When I’m with him, I’m almost always happy. He makes me laugh and laugh and we talk about everything. The sex is fabulous and very emotional. Even when we are just working near each other it is very peaceful and comfortable.

    What I like most though, is that he makes a real effort to change things that I get upset about. If I tell him something makes me feel bad, he will stop doing it and go out of his way to tell me that he is not doing that anymore. He acts like he really cares.

    So its not really that I am in love with his attributes. Its more in love with how I feel with him the majority of the time- we have obviously had some ups and downs. The other thing though, that I really like, is that he doesn’t run away from conflict with me. He really seems to want it all to work out.

    He has all these things about him that just make me so happy with him that I want it to work out SO badly. I know I have to let go of that feeling but it is hard.

  96.  #96Lovergirl on March 3, 2015 at 11:15 pm

    @49 Zia-

    Thanks for your replies and I am thinking about them, even if I seem to be disagreeing. 😉

    As far as his business…that’s the other thing…I really don’t think he NEEDS me that much. Its almost more helping ME than it is helping him. Its work he could do himself yet he pays me to do it. A lot of it I can do from my computer at home, or at his place when he is not there. Yet, he will find excuses to have me over.

    During the time when we weren’t having sex, he would sometimes pay me to come over and do work for him, and he would just sit on the couch and WATCH me and want to talk. I asked him why, if he didn’t have feelings for me, or want to have sex, would he want me to keep coming over so often. He responded “I just like looking at you. You are so beautiful, I just like having you here and watching you work”. 😛 At that point I was like seriously? And asked him if he really didn’t have feelings for me… he said he does but he doesn’t think its a good idea to share them because of the situation. Just stuff like that…

  97.  #97Lovergirl on March 3, 2015 at 11:24 pm

    @57 Indigo-

    Yes, that is a good reminder. He is the one that said he wanted to end the sexual/emotional part of the relationship. Those were his words. He also has said the sex makes him feel too attached to me. So its obviously affected him in that regard and he’s not doing so well with keeping it compartmentalized. I know women in general do tend to get more attached that way though (and me too).

    He may not want a “relationship” with me, but he wants me around him. Its weird. Today he totally surprised me by giving me a $50 gift card to Sephora. He bought it before Christmas, to give to his stepmother, and decided to give her a $100 Macy’s card instead. So its been sitting on his counter for a long time. He asked me once if I wanted it in place of pay and I declined, saying I felt like I needed the cash.

    He could have used it himself (they sell the cologne he likes) or given it to someone else, but today, out of the blue, he randomly told me I could have it “for free”. He didn’t even make any jokes about it or me owing him anything back (which would be more typical). I thanked him with a smile. 🙂

  98.  #98Indigo on March 3, 2015 at 11:49 pm


    He obviously cares about you. There is obviously some kind of a relationship and a bond there. But sometimes a man is simply not ready, or not at a stage in his life where he can commit. And there is not much we can do about that, except keep practicing the Siren tools and keep living our lives.

  99.  #99Azure Blu on March 4, 2015 at 5:12 am

    LTD #91
    Zooom!!! ZAP!!! ZOWIE!!

    YOU are rocking this online dating…
    Alll so important in finding ourselves!
    Thank you for sharing all of this NEW stuff!
    love it!

  100.  #100Azure Blu on March 4, 2015 at 5:21 am

    (((LTD #92)))
    thank you for responding to my posts…
    I’m feeling lost
    tired of learning (what feels like) the same
    lesson again and again…
    I want to learn to value a man who makes me feel safe!

    I have a date on thur. with new guy -DM-
    who is very forward energy toward ME
    not put off by my ambivelance…
    I want to lean back and enjoy his energy coming
    toward me.

    Let several cds go…
    and am messaging 2 right here in my town…

    Trying to slather ME with love and compassion
    and understanding…

  101.  #101Mistea1 on March 4, 2015 at 6:11 am

    Azure Blu,

    Yea for you, excellent moves!!

  102.  #102Mistea1 on March 4, 2015 at 6:35 am

    Here’s my riff on my selflove issue.

    How do I love me?
    Let me not count the ways.
    When I think he’s interested I dress to the nines.
    When he’s rejected me out comes the sweat pants covering my bulky lines.

    How do I love me?
    Let me not count the ways.
    When I think he’s coming closer my eyes in my carefully applied eye make up beckons.
    When he turns away and looks at another, yesterdays eyemakeup is good enough I reckons.

    How do I love me?
    Let me not count the ways.
    When he callously doesn’t confirm our date.
    I still think, “Oh, but he has so many other qualities to be my perfect mate.”

    If you like add your own.
    I found my self starting to do this which is saying to me that I was doing it not because I loved myself but because I wanted to attract him!

    Aargh, note to self. “It’s supposed to be self love and self caring done because I am worth it no matter what.”

    Whew, thanks you all.

  103.  #103Azure Blu on March 4, 2015 at 6:42 am

    Ahhhh… thank you for your words of encouragement…
    After going deeper
    I believe part of the mirror here is that
    I am treating ME as If I’m INVISIBLE
    Ignoring allll the small and big
    things I should be doing
    FOR me
    to Help ME feel SAFE,
    Adored and Honored.
    that can GIVE that TO ME..
    I Won’t be able to Accept
    any of this from a Man
    Until I GIVE ALL
    TO ME!!

    Ahhh… I am feeling angry and temper tantrum
    MORE WORK???
    I want SOMEONE else to
    do all of this for ME!!!
    I am angry
    and stomping mad!!!

  104.  #104Elsie on March 4, 2015 at 6:43 am

    Zia – hi. 🙂

    I did pop up and so I’ll give the cliff notes as to what happened to me in the last year. GS and I split up last May. I went back to College CD briefly but we had…..issues. And we broke up. Then I dated a Fireman for 5 months. It was nice, but although he had everything I wanted on paper, great job, great with finances, good with my daughter, cute, successful, funny, athletic – he was not the man for me. I tried for 5 months, but whatever spark is supposed to happen just never ever happened. Ever. So I broke up with him.

    And I realized that I really do still love CollegeCD. So he had been texting me off and on for a few months while I was dating Fireman. He said that he cant stop thinking about me, loves me, would do anyting for me blah blah blah.

    So a couple of weeks ago, we saw each other for the first time in 8 months. It was like no time had passed. We both said we loved each other and while there were dealbreakers before, we wanted to work on them. He was over the moon.

    He made another date for the next week, and we got together again. Again, it was perfect. He just feels like I’ve been with him forever – well, I’ve known him since 18. haha. We were intimate. And he stayed over until 130am. The next day (last Thursday) he texted me that he was very tired, and asked how I was, I was very tired obviously too.

    And then…….nothing. I didnt hear from him on Fri, Sat, Sun, or monday.

    I was devastated. Sure, I could have texted him, but thats not how I am. I cant chase….I just cant do it. So, I waited. And felt no reassurance after waiting for a year and a half to be intimate with him again, I heard nothing from him for 4 full days. I had no idea what was going on – and this is a VERY EMOTIONAL man, so he isnt the type to be a jerk, but he does get overwhelmed often.

    So, last night, he finally texted me “Hi, Elsie, Are you mad at me?” I texted back, “Hi CollegeCD, I’m not mad, why?” (This is true, I’m not mad, I”m confused and a bit hurt.)

    He texted “Just a feeling I had, but I”m glad I was wrong. :)” I wrote ” I”m glad you are glad :)” and he ended it with a happy face.

    Perhaps he just needed some time to process things. Who knows. I am surprised that he would wait four days to text me, but I’m not about to start a discussion about how I feel disappointed and not reassured over text.

    But what I realized more importantly than that, is that the thing I have always struggled with is giving reassurance to MYSELF. Not needing it from someone else. I’m SO MUCH better than I was 3 years ago, but you know, I still do have a long way to go. I do let things like this throw me, and I feel crushed when someone that I care for and love doesnt reassure me and give me approval as much as I need – and the girls will tell you on here that I need A LOT…LOL. MORE than what is healthy.

    So, thats what I’m going to work on. Just not needing that reassurance from others but giving it to myself. I dont have as strong of a self of self as I wish I had, but its MUCH stronger than it used to be.

    I believe I handled the texts with CollegeCD well, I looked calm and cool (even though I wasnt for 4 days LOL) and when I see him next (If I ever see him again) then I will gently let him know then.

    I am working on managing my emotions. My emotions are NOT me – they are just my emotions.

    A great analogy I heard was this. If someone is out in the rain, and get wet, they dont think they ARE THE RAIN. The same way with emotions, these emotions are just rain, I get wet, but I’m not the rain. I can experience it and realize that its not actually me, and I can change how I react to things. Its not a narrative of who I am as a person, and I”m not my history either. I get to decide from this point forward who I get to be – how awesome is that? It feels much more empowering than just saying – oh, this is the way I am.

    Anyway – thats whats going on with me in the past year, and its been good reading on here and catching up with all of you!

    Any thoughts on how I handled the text messaging would be much appreciated – I still have lots to learn. 🙂

  105.  #105Lovetodance on March 4, 2015 at 7:02 am

    I hear you
    I feel how you have been working hard
    It makes so much sense to me your ‘ tired’
    Turning our ships around take a lot of muscle

    You are so very strong
    And lovely
    Your ambivalence seems so honest and right to me now
    And being honest bout that so good
    It makes me feel good to hear you are leaning back and letting yourself enjoy Thursday date and that you are weeding and letting go of cd’s who may not be nourishing you to now,,,,as you re-build

    Be easy on your self beautifull siren azure

  106.  #106Femininewoman on March 4, 2015 at 7:10 am

    Muah Elsie. Think you handled it well. I’d only say that it seems you are off a bit on the “I feel” practice. Your insights are amazing and you sound really sirene.

  107.  #107Elsie on March 4, 2015 at 7:31 am

    @FeminineWoman – HI 🙂 Its been a long time. 🙂 I have found that using the “I feel….” doesnt sound as genuine to me for who I am. I typically do make SURE that I am talking about me and my feelings though and not place blame or make a man wrong. When I broke up with Fireman I told him, Look, you are amazing, and successful. You have built something phenominal out of your life due to the fact that you are so self-sufficient. But when you are so interested in your own self and your own agenda in a relationship, it doesnt feel right to me. I need to be with someone where my needs are just as important as theirs, and thats just where I”m coming from. Thats just what I need, but you arent doing anything wrong, you are just being who you are. I admire it, but it doesnt work for me, and I’ll pray that you find someone amazing and wish you well.

    So, that sounds more like “me.” if that makes sense. And I dont know about being sirene. I think that Kim will tell you that I’m anything BUT serene. LOL. I’m a mess. haha!

  108.  #108Kim on March 4, 2015 at 7:35 am

    Serenity is overrated. 😉

  109.  #109Elsie on March 4, 2015 at 7:44 am

    LOL Kim!!!!

  110.  #110Femininewoman on March 4, 2015 at 7:44 am

    Elsie now I really remember who you were back then. This really reads like. Regardless of whether serenity is overrated or not, you do sound sirene to me Elsie in that first post so I am imagining that you have grown and blossomed a lot since your were posting about the GS and CollegeCD issue. I remember you being so caught up with GS like you couldn’t even think straight. Now you seem all cool as if you are sure about what you want in your life. Sounds sirene and calm to me. Notice how close sirene is to siren? 🙂 🙂

  111.  #111Elsie on March 4, 2015 at 7:47 am

    Femininewoman – yes, I am much more serene. I know that I will NEVER again be crumbled in a fetal position weeping over a man. I was there with GS. I mean, I could not breathe I was in such a state. I know that I have enough self confidence and worth now that I will never be back there because no man will ever be that important to me again – even if I love them to my toes.

    I do love CollegeCD very much. I always have. But if he and I dont end up together…I’m good. I’ll be fine. I never ever thought I would REALLY TRULY be fine. I mean REALLY fine. I will be sad and disappointed, sure. But I would not crumble. I would be fine.

    So I guess I”m more serene than before. But I”m still a mess haha!

  112.  #112Femininewoman on March 4, 2015 at 7:51 am

    Sirene 🙂 🙂

    Hope you mean mess in a good way :). Sometimes these are the things that become our unconscious blocks. The way we think about and describe ourselves. It is also the way we invite people to treat us 🙂

  113.  #113April Rose on March 4, 2015 at 7:57 am

    Please help me sirens,

    I feel so sick. I know I am triggered. And, I feel like I have lost myself.

    In the state I’m in I don’t know how I will ever do relationship. Or even simple dating.

    I feel so shivery and I’m crying.

    I feel frightened. Like if I express myself I am wrong, and if I don’t express myself I am wrong.

    Like, there is no way to get this right.
    I’m at a crucial point and I don’t know what to do.

  114.  #114Elsie on March 4, 2015 at 8:03 am

    AprilRose – what happened to make you feel like this right now?

    If you feel as if you lost yourself, then it is true you cant do a relationship or even simple dating now. I think you need to just work on comforting yourself and making sure YOU are ok.

    I guess I dont know the issue as to why you feel this way….? Maybe explaining that would help?

  115.  #115Femininewoman on March 4, 2015 at 8:11 am

    April Rose I sense you have hit the “panic” “urgent” button.

  116.  #116Azure Blu on March 4, 2015 at 8:16 am

    {{{{April Rose}}}}

  117.  #117Andrea on March 4, 2015 at 8:16 am

    Mistea… hahahah I love it!! I’m going to be thinking of more verses to add. Had a huge breakthrough yesterday.

    There is a man in our small town, he is huge, handsome, tall, dark, half native American, a professor at a tribal college and all the women swoon over him. I swoon over him. He has been showing me signs off and on that he’s into me. I have been intrigued by him and (as is my habit) I have beat myself up for all the mistakes I have made with him over the past two years. As he shows he’s interested I have jumped on it and chased him, over talked him, tried to impress him and he has backed off.

    Even with all the drama that I’ve been going through with all the other men in my life, I’ve always been aware of my attraction to him.

    Well, lo and behold, I was out on Saturday night, and in a cold and “back off” mood as that was the day that I found out RRguy is married. I walked into the concert venue and there was Huge Guy surrounded by women as usual.

    I didn’t even give him the time of day. I sat in my stool next to my girlfriends and I ordered my drink and just did my thing. Who should come chasing me? Huge Guy. He came and sat next to me, stayed with me the whole night, told other men that he was taking me home, did that protective… arm around my chair thing… like… he was there with me.

    I was shocked but also… what evs….

    So strange that I had had these intense moments of attraction toward him and chased him for a long time, then when I could care less, he came to me.

    So he took me not home after the night was through, but back to his place. And that’s when I had a this huge breakthrough….

    Do you know that I had built this man up my mind.. put him on a pedestal… made him the prize… told myself that he had this mystique… fantasized how our life could be together….


    I walked into his home which turned out to be a dump. A little rental that was so messy, so crusted, so… ick. And then we actually had a real conversation and all through it I just kept realizing.. this man is still stuck in childhood. Turns out he’s not a professor, he’s unemployed. Lots of things I learned about him.

    Then I ended up telling him: You know, I think I’m much more evolved than you and way more spiritually advanced.

    And he chuckled and said… “Yeah, probably.” And he took me home and we can probably still be decent “friends” like say hi to each other and stuff…
    But I realized…

    Oh my gosh!! This is what I do. I catch a whiff of something that might be palatable in a man, and I turn him into the best thing ever. I put him on a pedestal. I make him some prize that I need to jump through hoops to get, then I feel rewarded when I finally “win my prize.”

    I realized.. Oh my goodness…. That’s what the man’s role is. As a matter of fact.. that’s what most men that I really know WANT to do, they WANT to be in that role. They WANT to be presented with that woman who is (to them) a prize, and they want to be challenged and they want her acceptance of them to be their reward. I have been MANNING my way through this whole mating dance.

    I finally GoT IT!!

    Somehow, this whole episode is making it so clear to me. I really am a prize. The thing about me, which is unlike the men I’ve been getting involved with,…. finally I see….

    My mystique is SO REAL!! The wonder that I bring to the world, the sense of artistic charisma, the magic, the open hearted passion, the acceptance of humanity, the beauty, the aesthetic sense of charm and fun and sensuality… That REALLY IS ME!!!

    I really am honestly that which I portray myself to be. Which is why I honestly believed that the men who created these facades were honest as well.

    I REALLY AM a prize. I mean… really am. Crazy!!

    What I bring to a situation, to a relationship, to an experience is something really special and something really unique that only I can bring. And that’s why, when I don’t show up, people complain that they really missed me. And that’s since I haven’t been truly showing up in ALL of my GLORY… the universe has been missing me.

    I’ve been hiding. Not because I worried that people would not like me, but because I worried that so many people would and I didn’t have the boundaries, or the strength to say…. “Wait a second.. hold on.. I KNOW you like me, as well you should! I SEE WHAT I bring. I KNOW exactly why you’re drawn to ME. BUT, I don’t like you. Not as you are presenting yourself to me right now. Come back with something else, or don’t come back at all. You should like me, you should be drawn to me, that’s only natural, after all, I’m beaming my nectar out to the world, you should be flocking around me. But if you come empty handed, or come lacking, or come not good enough… you don’t make it to my budding flower.”

    They should be buzzing around me, why wouldn’t they be, but THEY have to figure out how to get IN.

    I’ve been living backward. What a breakthrough. I don’t even know how this will read to some of you Sirens. Even now, there’s this huge fear like… Oh my Gosh.. how dare I say those things. But, the breakthrough is that.. those things are actually true.

    Belittling myself and making men the prize feels so awkward and does not work because it is NOT REALITY. Wow…
    Does anyone else know what I’m talking about here? Like OOOOOHHHHHHH THIS IS WHAT YOU LADIES WERE SAYING!!!! OOOOOOHHHHHHH!!!! Like I finally feel resonant with what you all have been trying to knock into me.

  118.  #118April Rose on March 4, 2015 at 8:17 am

    Thank you Elsie,

    I thought I was doing so well.

    I thought I had finished sobbing in pain over my last break up.

    I am only two weeks into dating a new man. And, against my thinking I wasn’t, it looks like I got emotionally invested. very quickly.

    Things have been lovely. He acts like a considerate masculine man.
    He had asked if he could come to my house tonight, to help me with something. This was after a wonderful time on Sunday. I was delighted of course, and looked forward to seeing him.

    Today I got a text saying he may have to work late, and so would call around another day.

    I felt gutted receiving that message. And shocked at how upset I am. I really am upset. It’s like my raw nerve got pressed.

    Now I am thinking that he probably just wants to watch the football. And now I feel bad that I suspect him of lying. And so my voices are going really fast… how can I discover if he is lying?… how can I make myself more high degree of difficulty?…. should I just tell him how disappointed I feel?…..

    …And, there is another voice telling me to do nothing…telling me that this trigger has come up, for healing… telling me to breathe … and come back into my heart … and love my heart.

  119.  #119Femininewoman on March 4, 2015 at 8:18 am

    “Forgive yourself for your own mistakes, and fill your heart and soul with love and compassion.”

  120.  #120Azure Blu on March 4, 2015 at 8:19 am

    {{{LTD}}} #102
    Mmmm… loving words…
    I so need compassion…
    your lovely siren melody coming toward me
    feels soft and warm..
    “nourishing me as you re-build”
    Thank you for reminding me to go slow and gentle.

  121.  #121Andrea on March 4, 2015 at 8:24 am

    (((((April Rose))))))

    Feel time. I’m wondering if you don’t DO anything. Just BE this feeling.

    Oh Darn… I bet I’m with all the other Sirens when I say I wish we were all there to just encircle you and allow you to go deep into these feelings of panic and feel safe. We’re there with you.

    Hugs hugs hugs… you are safe, and precious, and yes, feel!!! OOOhhhhhh… wish we could hold you right now!!!!

  122.  #122Femininewoman on March 4, 2015 at 8:29 am

    Our Greatest Fear —Marianne Williamson

    it is our light not our darkness that most frightens us
    Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.
    Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
    It is our light not our darkness that most frightens us.

    We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous,
    talented and fabulous?

    Actually, who are you not to be?

    You are a child of God.

    Your playing small does not serve the world.

    There’s nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you.

    We were born to make manifest the glory of
    God that is within us.

    It’s not just in some of us; it’s in everyone.

    And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.

    As we are liberated from our own fear,
    Our presence automatically liberates others.

    —Marianne Williamson

  123.  #123Elsie on March 4, 2015 at 8:29 am

    AprilRose: Ok – deep breaths. 🙂

    Look at what is in front of you – not something you are making up. I say this lovingly. I did this and still do all the time. I just make things up. Like, because I dont have all the information – I just make things up – and they arent real.

    So lets look at what we know here. You just broke up with someone and are a bit raw. Ok. A guy you are dating for two weeks seems nice. Ok. You had plans and were looking forward to them. Ok. He has to work late. Ok. He will come over another day.

    Look – he could have not called at all. Or just not shown up.

    Yes, you are disappointed. But this man seems nice enough to text you in advance that he cant make it. He is not the other men you have dated. You dont know anything about him yet except he is nice and you know he is respectful enough to let you know that he cant make it. Full stop. Thats all you know.

    If you text him how you feel you will look needy, clingy, desparate for reassurance. Which, while all of that is true, is not that attractive, sweetie.

    Text back and thank him for letting you know – its very thoughtful of him after all.

    And then go do something for YOURSELF and dont give this another thought until he texts you again and asks you to come over, which my guess is that he will. 🙂

    You’ve got this. 🙂

  124.  #124April Rose on March 4, 2015 at 8:31 am

    Thank you Andrea, FW, Azure Blu

    I feel your encircling arms. It means more than you know.

  125.  #125April Rose on March 4, 2015 at 8:36 am

    Dear Elsie,

    Your common sense and appreciation of the facts feels to me very soothing.

    Thank you so much for taking the time to talk this through with me. I feel so relieved, and cared for.

    It is truly a blessing that I appreciate with all my heart, that you and the siren sisters here have reached out to comfort me. I want to weep with relief, and for gratitude for the sense of safety you give me.

  126.  #126Azure Blu on March 4, 2015 at 8:37 am

    Elsie… #123
    LOVE THIS… Beautiful and a Great reminder
    for ME
    Look only at the facts…
    STOP filling in the lines and
    Making things up!!
    It’s NOT attractive Sweetie… ;-))

  127.  #127Andrea on March 4, 2015 at 8:38 am

    Feminine Woman!!!!!!! Yes!! I feel all tumultuous and bubbles and earthquakes going off in my belly right now. THIS IS TRUTH!! Wow. Some how it’s finally getting IN!! (or coming out??)

  128.  #128April Rose on March 4, 2015 at 8:40 am

    My voices are telling me that, because I ‘gushed’ a couple of times at him, he is backing off.

    I still am grappling with the whole gushing and appreciation side of feeling messages.

    My guess is that if a man is a little unconfident (and many are) then when we gush it spooks them a bit.

  129.  #129Gemini Goddess on March 4, 2015 at 8:41 am

    April Rose-

    To share or not to share (or how much to share). I have the same challenge wanting to both BE and communicate authentically (ie: not be phony emotional cardboard), and at the same time not sound clingy and needy. I just know it’s possible to do both. Working on it.

    I agree with Elsie, and maybe you could add something like “Bummer! Thanks for letting me know. :)”

    My two cents. xxoo

  130.  #130Lovetodance on March 4, 2015 at 8:44 am

    April rose
    I am a siren in training and yet I do have. 2 cents
    To remember that as emotional this had been for you. …. He to has been affected.
    He may be needing to push back , take some time ,go into his self his cave for recharge and re-flection
    I don’t know if this Is what is happening for him but maybe
    And I feel you are spot on about observing your reactions. Naming what is beneath them. Ie fear, ?insecurity ?fear of rejection. ? Anxiety about what ?
    And holding and loving and comforting yourself
    And planning something wonderfull for you to do that has nothing nothing to do with him ..,,just for you Nd your pure enjoyment of beautiful and alluring April rose

  131.  #131April Rose on March 4, 2015 at 8:46 am


    I am delighted by your revelations. So happy that they are landing in you deep in your core.

  132.  #132Femininewoman on March 4, 2015 at 8:57 am

    Elsie it feels so good to be reading your words. Sounds so confident and aware.

  133.  #133April Rose on March 4, 2015 at 8:57 am

    Gemini Goddess

    Yes! It seems that now my heart is more open than before, I want to share the things I know I’m feeling. And I want to wait until the ‘urgency’ has passed and share from a soft, warm place.

    This was my script (not yet sent) and it could probably read as ‘needy’ and then also not:
    “I don’t want to lie to you. I felt disappointed that u won’t be coming tonight.”

    Then again, ‘disappointed’ isn’t really a feeling. It kind of makes him wrong.

    What I ‘felt’ was TRIGGERED. And, I guess that is mine to deal with. Nothing to do with him at all.

  134.  #134April Rose on March 4, 2015 at 8:59 am

    I feel scared now, that I didn’t believe him.

    How can I carry on any relationship if I am going to be run by suspicion?

  135.  #135Azure Blu on March 4, 2015 at 9:00 am

    mistea #102
    Mmmm… love this poem…
    lovely poet siren!

  136.  #136Lovetodance on March 4, 2015 at 9:00 am

    I have a second date this week with someone . I have traversed all my map of relating issues about him internally
    Deciding he is wrong for me
    Not wanting to wound him
    Pulling him in….

    I see me in him
    I don’t want to sign up to be the healer
    He even in his broken/ness is extremely strong And powerfull
    Oy vey…. Why can’t I pick the easier more normal seeming at least scnarios?
    And I know ‘normal’ doesn’t really exist
    My big thing. Not wanting to hurt him. But what about me?

  137.  #137Azure Blu on March 4, 2015 at 9:08 am

    this 2nd date isn’t just for fun
    and therapy and practice for YOU?

  138.  #138Lovetodance on March 4, 2015 at 9:11 am

    April rose
    How about ‘ I feel surprised and wondering?’
    If that rings a bell or
    Just letting it be / you be with this trigger
    I am wondering about PTSD from your past and the hurt you encountered….
    Maybe taking the time to journal
    To literally shake your body
    Make sound
    Cry stomp
    Move this energy
    And see how you feel after a good nights sleep
    A lite text thanking him for his message letting him know you received it and if there are things you feel you need to express to him in person
    They will be less charged and clearer as you know more about you and this trigger.

  139.  #139Lovetodance on March 4, 2015 at 9:16 am

    Yes wise siren azure
    But because I am intensely me
    We already skipped some developmental steps of relationship and

    I need to back up and go back to square one

    Thank you for the reminder and I am just gonna chill and enjoy
    Even if he calls me baby and sweetheart
    I just gonna be lite as a feather

  140.  #140Elsie on March 4, 2015 at 9:24 am

    April Rose – Honestly, I say this from experience from yesterday. Do not text him how you feel. You do not need to have verbal diarrhea all over him about your feelings at 2 weeks. Any man, even a good man, would run.

    I wouldnt say “bummer.” I wouldnt say “This feels disappointing” I wouldnt say anything. Why allow him into that part of your heart, he hasnt earned a place in, and frankly, sweetie, he isnt asking you how you feel. Its only been two weeks. I’m sure he knows you are a bit disappointed, you dont need to tell him. It will sound clingy.

    Just because you HAVE an emotion doesnt mean you either need to act on it or tell everyone – that is a huge lesson I’ve learned. It doesnt invalidate the emotion – it just means YOU deal with it, and dont make HIM deal with it. Its YOUR emotion after all not his.

    What do you want him to do with this information that you are disappointed? Reassure you. Well, that will feel needy to a man.

    Just please write back, thank you for letting me know that was very thoughtful, and then DROP IT. Dont ask when you will see him again or tell him how you feel. 🙂

    If he cares how you feel, he will text you again at some point and ask you out again, and then your answer will be there.

    The struggle will be to have patience in the meantime and REASSURE YOURSELF. 🙂

    Go on….you’re fine. You’ve got this.

  141.  #141Elsie on March 4, 2015 at 9:30 am

    April Rose – I’m only saying this also because as I said – I was intimate with someone last week. A man I’ve had a relationship off and on with for about 2 years. I’ve broken it off the last two times because of his actions, and my feelings about them.

    After we were intimate, I didnt hear from him until the 5th day. You know how hard it was to not text him? Find out WHY he wasnt texting me? yah, it was hard, but for whatever reason, he wasnt texting me and that HAS TO BE OK. He has feelings too and now I just have to decide if his actions are ok with me. Not if he is doing anything wrong. He is just doing what he is doing – its my choice how to handle it.

    So, when he texted me, Hi, are you mad at me….yes, I could have had verbal diarrhea all over him and dumped on him. What would that have solved? Nothing. He asked if I was mad. I wasnt. I was confused and frustrated and sad. He didnt ask those things. I was not mad. And its not the place to text him about those things anyway. He would have felt guilty and he would have been then trained once again that his feelings dont matter to me – if he needed space.

    If he didnt need space, and was just being a jerk, well, then I saved face. I didnt act all needy and clingy and good for me. 🙂

    So the text exchange was short. And he said he was glad that I wasnt mad. OK – I dont know what that means. Does he ask me out again? Was he just soothing his own conscience because he didnt text me for 4 full days after? I dont know. And it DOESNT MATTER. If he wants to tell me, he will. And if he doesnt, nothing I say will make him, or if he does,he will resent me and also again find me clingy.

    I have to sit in my own muck over here and give MYSELF the reassurance that I need. Maybe he will call again. He did say he loves me, hasnt ever met anyone like me, told all his friends he cant live without me, and that he would do anything for me.

    But he also didnt text me for four days. LOL

    So only time will tell where this will go.

    At the end of the day the hardest lesson to learn is SELF CONTROL AND PATIENCE.

    Find that and you find the serenity that Femininewoman was talking about. I’m not there yet, but I am sure on my way. 🙂

    I hope this helped?

  142.  #142Lovetodance on March 4, 2015 at 9:35 am

    Elsie. Very very wise. I am saving this!

  143.  #143Elsie on March 4, 2015 at 9:52 am

    @Lovetodance – LOL. Wise. I dont think I”ve ever been called wise before. Certainly not when it comes to relationships. And just remember its ALWAYS easier to help someone else because you arent in that muck. Its my own muck that I’m still stuck in. Its always hard to see the forest for the trees when your own emotions are involved, I know that for SURE!

  144.  #144April Rose on March 4, 2015 at 9:56 am


    You have unlocked my dilemma about gushing.

    When you wrote
    “Just because you HAVE an emotion doesnt mean you either need to act on it or tell everyone – that is a huge lesson I’ve learned. It doesnt invalidate the emotion – it just means YOU deal with it, and dont make HIM deal with it. Its YOUR emotion after all not his.”

    I knew there was something a bit off and weird about my gushing on Monday.
    Men like us to give a straightforward answer to a straightforward question sometimes. My gushing feeling message was out of character I think. I’m usually quite quiet and reserved when we meet, but my in e-mail I expressed my ‘excited’ and ‘giddy’ feelings about going away with him.

    Ew and eek. I feel a bit embarassed about that. I hope he hasn’t done more than glance at it.

  145.  #145Elsie on March 4, 2015 at 10:05 am

    April Rose – Another life lesson I’ve learned…..You cant do ANYTHING about whats already happened. Look, its probably not a big deal, and men dont obsess over texts like we do – he probably read it – thought it was cute – and moved on.

    If he didnt ok, well who cares. Two weeks in – its just a guy at this point. 🙂

    So, dont feel embarrassed, again, its over. I am HORRIBLE at this by the way. If there was an Olympic gold medal for ruminating and obsessing I would win hands down. I’m fantastic at it. You know what its ever gotten me? Uhh….nothing. Wasted time. I cant change it, I cant fix it. I cant do anything about it – if I dont like how it feels then ok I’ll do it different next time, but OMG, DO YOU KNOW how many hours I’ve spent thinking about things that I cant do anything about that end up not mattering anyway? OMG. I’ll be honest, I did it this weekend. ALL weekend.

    I could have cured cancer in the amount of time I’ve taken obsessing over past texts I’ve sent, or words I’ve said, or actions I’ve done. Good Lord.

    So, AprilRose, just MOVE ON, and you know what , send him a nice text and then TRY TRY TRY to just do something else. It is what it is and you cant change if you were giddy. Who cares – maybe he thinks its cute. 🙂 Which is probably was. And if he doesnt think so – then F him. 🙂 LOL

  146.  #146Kim on March 4, 2015 at 11:08 am

    Elsie, I am LOL here..priceless….but essentially you hit the nail on the head.
    Now go cure cancer!

  147.  #147Elsie on March 4, 2015 at 11:13 am

    LOL – Kim, I’m glad I can always make you laugh 🙂 I’m good for that at least. 🙂

  148.  #148lovetodance on March 4, 2015 at 11:38 am

    okay elsie siren…
    you don’t have to claim ‘wisdom’

    but i do for you!

    c’mon…wisdom comes from experience and awareness and reflection about what works and doesn’t…you seem to have plenty of that..

    gosh if we can’t claim wisdom from all we go thru [needlessly most often looking from the other side of the tunnel, but having to go thru the tunnel anyhow]

    when do we start to gain it or claim it…it doesn’t mean that we don’t go into that tunnel again…maybe its just a shorter trip…and we are here to remind each other of that…all of our collective wisdom when we temporarily lose our own….

    speaking of cancer…my beloved neighbor who is very very very involved in that in her body…told me today…’remember you are beautiful…don’t waste your time or life thinking anything other than that….no matter what! anything else is just destructive and a life destroyer”

    kudos to my beautiful margy….all prayers directed to her would be so appreciated….even a moments thought…thank you lovely sirens

    ps from my own experience i do believe thinking/feeling has alot to do with dis-ease…particularly cancer…healing is an inside job with alot of help from the outside in terms of everything….
    so i thank kim and elsie your comments are more relevant and re verberating than you know xoxoxo

  149.  #149Dominique on March 4, 2015 at 11:41 am

    AzureBlu -100 – I read this while laying with heat after my PT session and could hardly wait to get home to respond. I can SO understand why you might think this is the same thing coming up again for you, yet let me try to assure you with all I have that it’s not. You have way to much awareness and have done way too much work. It’s simply another layer which might be showing up in a similar or even the same package. You’re going deeper sweetheart.

    This one goes into more depth and might help you –

    Love to you


  150.  #150Dominique on March 4, 2015 at 11:42 am

  151.  #151Dominique on March 4, 2015 at 11:43 am

    And this one popped up while I was looking, relevant maybe?


  152.  #152Dominique on March 4, 2015 at 11:49 am

    Andrea – 117 – This feel SO fantastic to read, SO beautful, SO heart warming, simply AWESEOM. Happy Dance over here!!! YAY YOU!!!

    Love to you


  153.  #153Dominique on March 4, 2015 at 11:56 am

    April Rose – 118 – Yes this is more than likely a trigger coming up for healing, something much deeper going on, or this kind of primal response wouldn’t be happening for you. Yet you can still tell him you feel disappointed. This doesn’t make anyone wrong, and you’re being as real and authentic as you can given what you haven’t yet discovered about this trigger. There’s no reason to try to uncover what he is or isn’t really doing, for this will only deepen any feelings of suspicion you already feel, and you will put up an even thicker curtain, maybe a wall against him, making you both feel awful, most importantly YOU.
    If he’s not an honest man, this will come out all by itself without any help from anyone. In the meantime, try to trust, in yourself first and foremost. This is also a wonderful opportunity to lavish some extra special love on yourself no matter what this looks like, and all kinds of kindness, gentleness, and patience.

    Much love to you.


  154.  #154Femininewoman on March 4, 2015 at 11:57 am

    Wow Elsie, you really seem to have transformed.

  155.  #155April Rose on March 4, 2015 at 12:11 pm


    Thank you for your wonderful comments. You have a lovely calmness which makes your insights shine.
    I feel happy reading your words.

  156.  #156Elsie on March 4, 2015 at 12:32 pm

    @lovetodance – well, thank you. I dont know. I think again its always easier to give advice on someone elses problems than to deal with your own problems.

    I can tell you honestly, I wasnt curled up in a ball in a fetal position crying this weekend, but I was hurt. And I thought – well, I’m hurt because *I* allowed myself to be intimate with someone and frankly *I* wasnt ready. So its not HIS FAULT….Its mine. And so he didnt text me, yes I would like it – it would have felt good, and frankly, given his nature, it surprised me very much that he didnt – he is very emotional. But you know, its not my job to TELL HIM how to behave. I’m not going to overfunction and row the boat. He isnt trying to hurt me, I believe that – he is just doing what he is doing over there in his world. I have the choice to decide whether I like how that feels or not.

    Right now I dont particularly like it. But, again its not the time or place on a brief text after he hasnt texted me for 4 days to give him verbal diarrhea and explode all my icky feelings all over him. He was texting and obviously seemed relieved that I wasnt “mad.”

    From here? Sure. I obsess. I wonder. Will he ever text me again? Does he really love me? Is everything he told his friends and me true? Is he going to ask me out again? Why hasnt he already asked me out – usually he does by now? I am right in the thick of it. In the muck.

    And I remember – These are my issues, not his. I’m fussy with his actions, but its my choice how to handle that. And I did finally realize that choosing to wait to talk about something, or not punishing someone within an inch of their life, is not necessarily the healthiest thing.

    So, I have to wait over here in my muck and be patient. And there is a lot to learn and heal in this muck.

    Yes, I would LIKE his reassurance but I dont NEED it to survive. And over time, his actions will tell if its something that is good enough. The past times we have been together he has LAVISHED me with time and energy and love – and you know thats why this feels so different and odd to me because he is way more pulled back than he ever was – he used to be like a puppy dog jumping on me with tons of love and physical and emotional affection. Not now, and dont know why. Maybe he is more cautious. Maybe he is scared. Maybe he is trapped under something heavy – oh God, who knows….and who cares.

    Ultimately, with PATIENCE, something I’m horrible at practicing, I will find out the answer. And it wont take forever. I guarantee within the month I will know where this man stands.

    So all I have to do is wait a month or so or less and just work on being easy breezy beautiful cover girl over here……and not having to tell all my feeling messages to anyone who happens to stop near me for more than 2 seconds. 🙂 LOL. They are my feelings – sometimes just keeping them to yourself and working on them yourself is hard but the best work you can do. 🙂 Its not these other peoples job to fix you – its your job. My job to fix me. And boy oh boy do I have a lot of fixing to do. 🙂 LOL.

  157.  #157lovetodance on March 4, 2015 at 12:53 pm

    oh elsie…

    i so relate to you!

    i love your humor and dare i say again your wisdom

    i feel bouyed you your writing …it is helpful to me

    we gals put ourselves thru so much….and its so in our bodies that we feel it…

    i love how you are giving him and yourself space and being aware that you were’t really ready…

    i find it is very hard to contain my emotional reactions particularly if there is an inkling of possible rejection in the air…i am just beginning to dance with other ways of responding internally to this huge trigger for me…
    your writing is speaking to these dynamics and new dance steps for me

    thank you Elsie xoxoxo

  158.  #158lovetodance on March 4, 2015 at 12:57 pm

    dear april

    thank you sweet siren

  159.  #159Elsie on March 4, 2015 at 1:24 pm

    @lovetodance – Well, thank you. I tend to approach everything, most especially my pain, with humor. So I’m glad that someone else gets something from that haha!

    Let me be clear before I seem like some wise sage. I am so broken still. I felt pangs of insecurity and the need for reassurance this weekend was so strong that I found it difficult to do much of anything. It is VERY hard for my to contain and compartmentalize my emotions. But I remember again and again that my emotions are NOT me. Also, there is a book – Emotional Chaos to Clarity. I cant recommend it highly enough. Its amazing.

    The other thing I think about is this. I’ve been rejected a LOT. Like…..a LOT. I’ve needed reassurance that I never got…..a LOT. Like tons.

    Do you know what my track record is in surviving all that? 100%. I’ve always survived it. No matter how bad it felt, I always came out the other side.

    You know what your track record is April Rose? 100%. You have always felt this pain of rejection and always came out the other side intact. Maybe bruised, and a bit broken, and hurt, but intact.

    Just remember that – your track record is 100%. 🙂

  160.  #160Mistea1 on March 4, 2015 at 1:40 pm

    Andrea 117,

    Wow, that was fantastic. I hope you are saving all these posts for the book you could write.

    I like the part where you wrote about boundaries. I hope you will expand on that. Am I interpreting this correctly? People like you and want to come in to your space. Yet you feel that even if they are acceptable they will tromp all over your sensibilities because you haven’t defined your boundaries even to yourself?

    So no one is allowed in until you do some inner work to get an acceptable set of boundaries to start off with. Knowing of course that some of these will change as time goes by. Am I close? If I am in the ball park here I think it would be helpful to get this down in writing so you can physically refer to it often as you move through this transition.
    Much admiration from Mistea1

  161.  #161Mistea1 on March 4, 2015 at 1:42 pm

    Elsie 159,
    I am enjoying your posts, Thanks.

  162.  #162April Rose on March 4, 2015 at 3:22 pm

    April is one happy bunny just now.

    He texted when he had finished work. It was late. He asked if he could stop by for a quick visit. I said of course.

    He was a little embarrassed, he said, being in scruffy work clothes, but got hold of me and gave me a kiss anyway.

    A little later he said “I was disappointed I had to work late”). When I said “me too” he smiled with genuine surprise.

    We had a lovely cuddle, and he looked in my eyes and told me how lucky he feels!!

    I felt so much, when he was looking at me. It is like my soul is bare and it takes all my willpower not to look away from his gaze.

    I silently pondered my huge trigger fest of earlier and shook my head at myself and how I could have got it so wrong! Silly, sweet April!!

  163.  #163April Rose on March 4, 2015 at 3:31 pm


    Your words feel like balm, and strength.

    It was indeed a supreme trigger. And what it unlocked for me was a torrent of old rejection and pain from my break up with WM. I had to be in his town, and his workplace last week. I did such a good rockstar siren act while I was there that I kept any pain from surfacing.

    I guess it bubbled up today, and got mixed up in a trigger brought on by someone else.

    What I don’t want to do is ‘give the power’ to devastate me, to the next man. Oh no. I want to end that power right there. No-one has it.

  164.  #164Mistea1 on March 4, 2015 at 3:59 pm

    Dominique 153,
    I’ve read the posts you suggested. In regards to triggers, are you saying that even though the issue is say abandonment that each time it shows up it may be a different aspect? So if I get the abandoment feeling then it’s not like “Oh, here I go again.” It should be that I look for something related?

    I ask because it seems that over the years with different relationships I’m finding my self with the attitude that it’s the same old, same old, over and over again. May be I should be looking at this with fresh curiousity.

    In addition, with this past non-relationship I really worked hard on the abandonment issue because the trigger brought up huge feelings and I felt I could make good headway in this issue which I did.

    I think I was mostly successful and the poor guy in the non-relationship was very non-plussed as I changed directions midstream so to speak. Admittedly, I was curious to see what would happen. It was hard on me but so worth it. I am picking up the pieces now and attempting to CD. Hope your PT is making everything better. Thanks

  165.  #165April Rose on March 4, 2015 at 4:31 pm

    The trigger itself – that was like the shock of being let down by someone I trusted totally. As if a beautiful trust (which meant the world to me) had been violated and could never be regained.

    April, it never happened. The nasty voices tricked you.
    You still have, as Elsie rightly points out, a 100% track record. You still have that beautiful thing in its entirety.

    Feels so fragile, to think another human being could break it.

    I have that trust in myself. And I dare to trust it in another. I still want to take that risk.

  166.  #166Zia on March 4, 2015 at 4:34 pm

    Elsie – HI!!! So happy to read your update 🙂 I think you handled it great, and what you say about being able to reassure yourself sounds wonderful too. For me, I changed my view into making it fun (even though at times it was stressful)… “how can I do things differently RIGHT NOW?” No stresses about he will take it, or what he will think, or what to do to make things good with him. Sounds like you are doing similar, taking care of you, working out who you are and getting in touch with yourself… awesome. Much love to you and I feel really happy to hear you’re going well. I have wondered about you on and off over the year 🙂 xx

  167.  #167Andrea on March 4, 2015 at 5:00 pm

    MIstea, what fun to get to the nitty gritty and work this stuff out together. hah! I think that you’re saying what I’m saying… : )

    I’m rescripting my response to men. For instance: Instead of me being so giddy and happy that a guy like the man I thought RRguy was, took a notice to me and was giving me attention. I am realizing something here:

    Of course RRguy liked me. Of course he responded to me. Of course he noticed me. As WELL he Should. I am a woman who displays an air of fun, vibrancy, light, fancy, and I’ve taken risks as an adult to ensure that I am following my dreams. Of course RRguy would want to spend time with me and want to dip into my pool of enlightenment. Now I’m seeing that there is no question in the reasoning behind his attraction to me.
    Unfortunately, I am the type of woman who has a deep abiding respect for commitments. I am a woman who holds men up to a standard of sticking to their word. I am a woman who desires a loving relationship with a man who shows he has a track record for walking the talk. Etc…
    So, no wonder, RRguy fell way short of being able to be my true life companion. Out of necessity, he had to drop away. He’s no match at all for the type of woman I am.

    Before, I was looking at it way backward. Before, I was questioning… “why would such a great guy like me? what can I do DO to keep his attention? how can I make it so that he will only want to be with me?”
    All the while thinking that he was such a great guy and I had to prove myself worthy of him.

    Backward. I’m a really great catch. Really. And he was in no way close to being worthy of me.

    Of course Huge Guy from my town would like. I offer a spiritual and poetic mystique. I am intelligent and hob nob with the professors and intellectuals in my city. I am intuitive and have a special relationship with a few of the native american elders in our area because of my work as a healer and massage therapist. Of Course Huge Guy noticed me, my smile, my warm acceptance of what is, my open heart. Of course he wanted to be near me.
    Unfortunately, I am also the kind of woman who has standards for my living space and for the type of dwelling I live in. I am the type of woman who takes impeccable care of my physical surroundings and who holds anyone who wants to be in my space to the same standard that I hold myself to. I’m the kind of woman who thrives on authentic spiritual stimulation, not just the look of it, but the actual practice of it.
    Therefore, out of sheer force of magnetic repulsion, there is no possible way, handsome as Huge Guy is, that he measures up to the type of man that could hold my attention for longer than a few hours.

    Before, I was thinking that I was the one who didn’t measure up to standards I thought that HE had. Before all of this, I was operating under this mode of trying to get his attention and keep it. When all along, I had his attention, more than that, and it was just when I bounded toward him, he had to step back.

    And of course my Ex boyfriend noticed me and wanted to be with me. I exude sensuality and virility. I dance, sing, speak in front of crowds, win poetry slams. I’m a sought after public speaker in his circles. I’m also blonde and vivacious and youthful and fun. Of course he wanted me. As well he should have. It makes sense that he was drawn to me.
    But I didn’t realize it at the time. I kept drowning in my own self doubt and questioned every time he said he loved me. I kept hiding who I really was because I thought it made him uncomfortable.
    In actuality, if I’d come out from under my blanket, we never would have gotten together in the first place.. not for very long anyway.
    Because I am the kind of woman who is naturally at the center of attention. I am a well rounded conversationalist and a robust flirt. Men do flock to me. I make men feel great about themselves when they’re in my presence. So the man that intends to be with me will need to be extremely confident and charismatic himself. He’ll have to be able to trust himself so much that it extends to his absolute trust in me. He’ll be comfortable and thrive in social settings and his first thought will be my comfort, my protection, my joy. His adoration for me will spill through the crowds and he’ll always know, because of his own confidence in himself, that I am connected to him.
    So, therefore, my ex boyfriend and I simply could not remain together. He was no match. He couldn’t be. It just wasn’t possible unless I decided to not be me. And then when I made the unconscious choice to NOT be me, he was no longer attracted to my light. Because, in actuality HE had fallen in love with me, but I couldn’t fall in love with him, because he just could not be the one that I needed.
    So instead of moving along, I changed ME.

    Now I see. Of course these men are drawn to me. Of course they are. There should be no doubt but that they they SHOULD be drawn to me. And AND it’s up to THEM to do what it takes to attract Me, to keep me.

    And I really am being my stupendous self and having a great life. I’m in college pursuing my dream of being a writer. I’m a public speaker and a poetry slam artist. I’m a singer. I dance on the weekends. I hike. I work out. I’m learning new cooking methods that are fun and exciting. I have two beautiful daughters who are sunshine and rainbows. I’m just saying… I really am a great catch. No wonder men are drawn to me.

    But it’s up to them to do the work of getting to be in a relationship with me. And if it’s hard work for them, well…. then it just is. That’s not my business. My business is to keep BEING the insatiable joy filled sensual beauty that they were drawn to in the first place. That’s MY Business. To keep Being Me!!

    whew… sorry so long winded. This is exciting though.

  168.  #168Mistea1 on March 4, 2015 at 6:24 pm

    Andrea 167,

    Good start. In para 4 take out the word ‘unfortunately’ and at the end of the para you might want to rethink the last sentence for clarity.

    5 paras from the end “So, therefore my ex,” you might want to rework whole para. for clarity.

    That’s good, you are building your treasure chest of gold and jewels depicting all of your good qualities. Whenever you like you can sit with your treasure chest and pull out a jewel or two and remind youself who you really are. Remember this is not a static statement and should be reworked every year or two. I’m feeling very happy for you.

    Now if you will you can help me. You may recall my MusicTd issues, the classical musician equivalent of international rock star. So immature and insecure. How was I to know they even had such a thing for classical musicians? Anyway it occurred to me that I might have had better luck if I had gone to the local bar. I admit I may be somewhat elitist on this issue. I don’t drink anyway. How does one choose which one to go to? My only experience is some of the TV shows I’ve seen and everyone dresses up in these impossible clothes and goes with a huge bunch of friends. Since I’m new here I don’t yet have a lot of friends and most of them are too tired to go anywhere anyway.

    Lawguy and I are still emailing and we both seem to enjoy it. I told him the only reason I am taking part in some of the church activities is for social reasons and I thought bars were not the best place to go. He did mention that it depends on which bar one goes to. I think he thinks I am being lofty about this. I do need to expand here because I don’t want to get dependant on Lawguy for anything.

    He lives about an hours drive away. If he wants to meet he will have to suggest it. I value the pen-pal aspect of this because I am honing my writing chops and he’s offered to teach me the Socratic method of argument. He’s interesting too. If we meet and dislike each other we probably would stop writing too. Somehow he is interested in teaching me. Heh,heh now how did he get that idea? So I still need to expand more. Any help will be accepted from you or whomever cares to comment.

  169.  #169Dominique on March 4, 2015 at 6:28 pm

    Mistea – 164 – Yes this is mostly what I’m saying. Once on a healing path, there’s not going back or backwards. You may trip, stumble, fall flat on your face even, wander off to the side, but there’s no going backwards. And as you peel away layers, some of the same feeling stuff may show up, yet it’s different.

    Yes, yes, yes – fresh curiosity. I love that.

    When it comes to abandonment stuff, I think I say it best here –

    Abandonment fears are some of the most insidious and maybe profound fears of all, sometimes showing up in disguise.

    Thank you for the well wishes. It’s being a long healing process. 🙂


  170.  #170Dominique on March 4, 2015 at 6:29 pm

    April Rose – 163 – My heart feels so very warmed up reading this.


  171.  #171Dixie on March 4, 2015 at 6:32 pm


    I’m feeling a little anxious and I need a little pep talk.

    Tonight – out of the blue- I received a text from a man I met in 2011. We met when I placed an ad in the classifieds selling my old bed. He had recently moved to the country for work and was looking for a bed for his son. He was handsome, very polite, charming, and was definitely interested. But D. and I were “on”, and although I spoke on the phone with this man, I made a point of staying on friendly but platonic terms. My heart was wrapped around D.

    Now its 2015. I’m realizing that although I love D very much, and I wish he was my forever man, well, he has not promised me anything, and although we’ve become close again, and he says he loves me, well…..he is not here in front of me.

    So this man has texted me again. Again, handsome, professional, responsible. And flirtatious but always polite. On his Whats App profile, I can see the photo. Yup, handsome.

    For the first time, I am realizing how much fear I’m feeling in opening up to a new man. It is so easy for me to be a girl with D., his girl, but now it feels like the universe is saying, “Oh, hello. We have someone we need to introduce to you (again).”

    So, remind me, please, someone, that this man showing up unexpectedly, is a chance I’m supposed to take…. everything else has been working out beautifully these days that I can’t believe the anxiousness I’m feeling over this one thing.

    It feels scary to open myself to someone else because deep down there’s this fear that doing so will pull me away from D, who I know, who I love but who isn’t here committing in a forever sort of way.

    Cue pep talk? (please!_

  172.  #172Bopa on March 4, 2015 at 6:32 pm

    Today and yesterday I am feeling very boy energy. In your face, talk talk talk, do do do, never slow down.
    So I just took a deep breath and melted down off the couch and onto the floor. Like a wet noodle lol
    There was no reason other than…I needed to be on the floor to feel calm and relax my energy. I just laid there with my arms over my head. Stretching, relaxing.
    To my surprise my partner came right to me, and started talking and tickling me and rubbing my exposed tummy.
    Then he asked me to join him for a shower and afterwards we made love and snuggled.
    Then I wanted to nap before I left for work. He wanted to stay up but he set up the computer for me with a cartoon on quiet and closed the drapes and tucked me in. It felt lovely. 🙂

  173.  #173Dixie on March 4, 2015 at 6:34 pm

    I should mention that this man I spoke quite a bit in that summer of 2011 and into 2012 but even though he asked me out a few times “something” always came up for me. (Fear!)

  174.  #174Dominique on March 4, 2015 at 6:40 pm

    Dixie – 171 – This reads like a sign if there ever was one. If D is truly the one for you which from what you say sounds iffy, then entertaining thoughts of exploring possibilities with this man and maybe even other men will open up the space for him to move towards you in ways you want, IF he will. Yet he may not, and four years is a long time. I’m not saying your equivalent of a ring needs to be there, yet some sense of – yes this is my forever man, and I’m his forever woman – does.

    Love to you.


  175.  #175Andrea on March 4, 2015 at 7:38 pm

    Mistea… the idea of an email pen pal sounds fun to me. Do you want this to be anything other than that? And I don’t know. I’m on this high like…

    Just sitting in the energy of: Of course this email guy wants to meet you. Of course he is intrigued by you and taken by your intellect as well as your mystery (and what ever else). He is charmed and he wants you.

    So, it’s up to you. Do you want to meet him or not? I’m thinking just opening my vibe up to meeting him would be the way to go. Not Doing anything about it. But being so fresh and chill and relaxed about physically meeting this guy because you are hot, sassy, vibrant, and right up his alley.. being confident about you… the next question is: Do you really want to find out he’s a dud?


    As for going out to bars: I do. I never go out to bars to meet men though. I go out to music venues, to sing karoake, to dance the two step, to poetry slams, to happy hour with my girl friends. I just happen to also meet men then.

    And your musicTD… I feel a strange connection to your story with that, but it’s just my own projection. I went round and round in the manner you’re describing with a man once. I was locked into this strange energy with him, attraction, spiritual and physical, perplexing to me. We had deep intense conversations about religion. I always came away with a haughty attitude toward him, (not sure why).. my sister asked me why I always seemed put off by him. He once told me that he was afraid of me, but he didn’t know why.

    The absolute only thing I could do about it was move. I moved far away from him. I read your experience with musicTD because I do wonder if this man himself had put some kind of… I don’t know.. strange energy on me. I can think of him now, this is seven years later, and I cant’ even imagine what I ever saw in him. I have absolutely no interest at all in even checking up on him. It was a strange vortex I felt trapped in. And I felt, in many ways, all the things you’ve been describing with MusicTD.
    It is NOT a good feeling. Not at all the delicious, vivacious, juicy, flowing, lovely way I WANT to feel when I’m with a man.
    It was a lock down. confusing and sluggish. I was drawn to him but repelled by him.

    ooooffffff…. now I have to go and do jumping jax or something to get out of the feelings of those memories… ughy ughy ughy..

    : ) We’re awesome. I love this so much.

  176.  #176Posie on March 4, 2015 at 9:01 pm

    First, Elsie, I have very much enjoyed reading your posts today, they really resonate with me in a positive way, thanks for taking the time to share, what a refreshing look at the world.

    Second, I think I just need a place to write down some thoughts. It’s been about 2.5 weeks since I asked BCF to give me space, feels like it’s been a year. But it hasn’t been so bad overall and I’ve felt a softly growing distance from him in my heart that is healing and gives me a sense of relief. I was triggered when he briefly approached me last week at work but kept my cool, let it wash over me, and continued on. Well, today he assigned himself to represent his work unit in a meeting I am holding on Monday. He sent me an email to let me know and told me that there was no one else available from his area to attend (I think this is legitimate, I don’t think he was trying to arrange himself to be there intentionally). I kept my reply completey professional and welcomed him to the table.

    It will be the most time that we’ve ever spent in physical presence together. Ever. And I’m running this meeting, with some important stakeholders who will also be at the meeting, and I need to be very sharp and on my game to do that.

    So I have mixed thoughts and feelings today. The first part of me would like to lie to myself and pretend that I don’t actually care that he’s going to be there. But it is SO hard not to want to use this opportunity to suck him back into me. And why? I’m the one that gave it up! All I ever wanted from him was time together, more than just our stolen kisses. A real date, a real cuddle. I didn’t end it because I stopped wanting it to work with him or stopped feeling drawn to him. I ended it because none of it could be real until time was spent together. For whatever reason he wasn’t able to move in that direction with me at a pace that felt reasonable and couldn’t communicate why or where he was at. And now we’ll share this room for at least an hour, and talk, and interact, and feel each other’s energy. Nausea. I won’t be able to lean back in a corner. It’s my meeting, I’ll own the discussion and set the tone for everyone there. And part of me wants to use that to elicit something within him (as if I could). I don’t know. I just don’t know. I keep playing all these scenarios out in my mind about what I’ll say and how I’ll play off the other participants. And then I ask myself, to what end???? I don’t have good answers for myself. I feel excited and sick and scared and uncertain and unwanting all at the same time. I still trust my boundaries and intuition for that relationship and I like that he takes up less space in my mind with each passing day. But I can’t help but wonder what he will FEEL like in person. Hopefully horrible and boring, that’ll make moving on really easy lol!

  177.  #177Indigo on March 4, 2015 at 9:23 pm

    ((((April Rose))))

    If you are anything like me, and come from a background with some trauma, then these panicked, suspicious, anxious feelings come easily to you.

    BUT it doesn’t have to be that way. I promise. Relationships can be easy and peaceful. When you are first growing and blossoming and awakening though, it is normal that a lot of things will trigger you. I experienced this. And that may then give way to panic that you will never be able to “do” this relationship thing. But you can. If you can just hold yourself through the trigger – turn to yourself, all the comfort you need is inside you – it will get easier. I promise. If it can for me, it can for you. There were times when my triggers had me curled up in a foetal position on the floor in my office, crying. But now, they are more like little waves which crash on the shore, and then are gone. I was triggered yesterday when my old self wanted to make an odd word or facial expression from D mean something, that he was rejecting me! I eventually just had to laugh at myself, and it passed completely.

    Remember, men get tired and overwhelmed and need to deal with their feelings… and it often goes on unconsciously or they can’t articulate it. Especially after a time of closeness, most good men need a little time out. Just BREATHE honey, it will all be ok 🙂 x

  178.  #178Indigo on March 4, 2015 at 9:25 pm

    April Rose – I see in 162 you’ve already got this. Yay!!

  179.  #179Liquid Light on March 4, 2015 at 9:29 pm

    Andrea, I’ve been trying to figure out why all the extreme challenges have been happening in your life recently. Now I understand why. There’s been a message for you and it got louder and louder until you finally heard it. Now it all makes sense. More later but just wanted to say Big Congrats to you girl! You deserve it!

  180.  #180Indigo on March 4, 2015 at 11:58 pm

    Andrea 117,

    I had my own breakthrough like this around about the beginning of the year, when I realised that I had been treating men like the prize, but – THEY WEREN’T! *I* am the Prize and that’s why everything has always felt so out of whack to me.

    Since I started accepting the reality that I am the Prize, and settling into that knowledge more and more, things have just got easier and easier. It’s not about not loving men, but it is about knowing which way the energy is supposed to be flowing.

    I take care of me first, which also means tending to my emotional and spiritual needs, tending my beautiful inner “garden”. I was doing that last night – I’d had a long day with lots of errands to run – and I was just puttering around the kitchen and around the house, tending to my needs, making some dinner, pouring a yummy drink, running a bath, getting comfy, just very absorbed with comforting myself… and D seemed quite mesmerised by this. He just buzzed around me like a bee, he wanted to do it all for me. He was falling over himself wanting to know what he could do for me, how he could make things easier and more comfortable for me. It was nice, but also, how it should be. I got to thank him and smile and be relaxed and the energy flow felt right.

    Because this is what men want – they want to be the hero, they want to devote themselves to a worthy cause. Let that cause be YOU (great words from Helena Hart)

  181.  #181Indigo on March 5, 2015 at 12:13 am

    I agree completely with what Elsie said in #140.

    We want to be sparing with our words and our sharing of negative feelings with a man. Too much sharing will push a good man away. Don’t sweat the small stuff.

  182.  #182Indigo on March 5, 2015 at 12:30 am


    Just continuing what you’ve said in 141, I love this.

    I have a man who needs space. It’s not anything personal, he’s just introverted. So, it is common for him to go 2 or 3 days between contacting me, not usually more than that. And in fact, the more I could be ok with his timing and just relax into it, the shorter the time gaps would be between him contacting me. Bottom line is, I finally realised, this has to be ok. He is just tending to his own needs, and when he contacts me, he REALLY wants to speak to me and be with me. So what would be the point of me taking his needing space personally, and effectively pushing him away by telling him there was something wrong with his timeline? He’s just a man, doing what he does. And I’m just a woman, doing what I do. And I can’t make my feelings about his timeline his fault or his responsibility. I just have to decide if I can accept it. And not in that resigned “Oh woe is me, I just have to accept my lot in life” martyr-type way – but in a real, let-me-get-on-with-my-life and sift through my feelings, make myself happy and fill my time up with things that feel good kind of way. If I felt good, I was far more likely to respond warmly and happily to him when he contacted me, and far more likely to respect his need to do things the way he needed to.

    It’s not that we can’t express our feelings about things, but if we have an agenda which wants to change the other person or get them to do something, it’s not a good idea. I’ve realised that men really really want to be accepted and for us to see the good in them. We can’t get them to give us more of what we want by expressing our hurt and disappointment, but rather by inspiring that sense that they can make us happy and “win” with us.

    I just love your insights around this!

  183.  #183Indigo on March 5, 2015 at 2:26 am

    Dixie 171,

    I absolutely believe in signs. I think if you are open to them and you ask the Universe to give them to you, you will absolutely receive them.

    I can only share my own experience. I must have dated easily 30 to 40 men in the last 3 and a half years who weren’t D. Anywhere between one date and a short relationship. All of these men, every single one of them, ended in a way which seemed oddly final. There was no lingering or uncertainty – either some circumstantial thing happened to end it, or I or they abruptly came to the conclusion that we were not right for each other, or they just disappeared out of my life with no lingering energy. At one point it got truly bizarre because 3 guys in a row ended abruptly for the unlikeliest of reasons. It got to the point where I just had to see the message the Universe was sending me.

    Now, some Sirens may disagree with me here, but I believe that message was that D was the one. The message I got very clearly from all of these dating experiences – and believe me, I gave it everything I had, I really tried to be enthusiastic and to be open to a wide variety of guys – was that, yes, I could continue dating to my heart’s content, but it would never come to anything. It was like the outcome was already predestined.

    By the way, he had exactly the same experience. He only dated 3 or 4 women but they also were all insignificant and ended in a cut-and-dry way. I had this strange knowing that he would just never be able to date any woman who would “stick” the way I had, I had a sense that it was impossible. And he kind of came to that conclusion as well. I’m not saying we necessarily end up together forever as I think it’s still premature to say, but for now we definitely are meant to be together.

    So, I’m not sure what I’m saying. But just that, if you follow the signs, they will lead you to the answer. This guy is showing up in your life for a reason. Follow it and see what it is, and everything will become clear if you believe it will.

  184.  #184Kim on March 5, 2015 at 4:29 am

    Indigo, I had a very similar experience when I dated MrP, my unavailable man. I stayed open for others but it never worked out, amd it ended abruptly….the reason being that I was still stuck on him and he had such power over me, for some reason, that I would always jump when he called and drop others…or even when he was not there, ‘love’ with someone else didn’t feel like love…..the men were not right but I also was clearly missing the unavailability or the drama one always has with someone who can’t be committed and runs hot and cold….he would go days without contacting me and I would also have to be ok with it.
    Yet, deep down, although I didn’t sit waiting for him to call….it was not enough, he could not commit, and I let him ‘pee’ on me like Rori said and never gave all the other CD’s a real chance, including relationships….so in my case it was not the Universe but my own inability to cut and move on….
    Once I was able to let go ( and I was telling myself all this stuff that he only loves me because he kept coming back and that he was my one…now I cringe…he still contacts me!), I met a great guy a year or so later…coincidence or not..we have been through a lot of ups and downs but never pining…never wondering whete his heart and body is at night..he calls every day, can’t wait to see me, wants to be with me every day. He and I particularly need our own space also, but I know he is in this 100% and moving in next month…there is no ring yet but we have talked about marriage…
    I do not know what will happen to your D and you, but my story just to give you some balance. Sometimes we make up stories about ‘the one’ …I certainly did. Now I am with someone whom, had I still been stuck on MrP, I would never have given a chance…wasn’t as exciting, as hot/cold/gung-ho….was just comfy.
    I am so happy now, I never thought it was possible. Couldn’t imagine him not calling me for three days or even just one day, not because I ‘need’ him to, because he wants to hear my voice and ask me about my day, and me his.
    Just stay open, is all I am saying…

  185.  #185Elsie on March 5, 2015 at 5:24 am

    @Dominique – I totally (and usually always) agree with you. Once you start down a road of healing, you might stumble or go slower at times, but you cant ever go back. Thank you for all your help 🙂

    @Andrea – (hugs) Man, I just read your story, WTF. But many of us have been there me included. I went out with a guy and then found out he was married. UGH. But you sound like you are in a great place working through everything!

    @Dixie – I’m sure I’m projecting here, but you knw when you LOVE a man, but he just isnt in front of you – you have to move on. I think I’m saying this for myself instead of for you – a really handsome man just asked me out. Ok – I’ll go if you go. 🙂 Deal????

    @Posie – thanks for the compliment. I work with GS, many people on here will remember that train wreck of a story. We still work together but I rarely see him now. Still, its difficult when I do see him, so huge hugs to you. It still rattles me when I see him in hallways or the elevator. 🙂

    @Indigo – I will tell you I’m happy that that works for you but it could never work for me to just go days on end without even touching base. No, he isnt wrong but it would never work for me.

    @Kim – I love you, you know that. 🙂 Everything you ever say I just shake my head yes yes yes.

    OK – so now on to me. 🙂 No text last night from CollegeCD. Why? Eh. Who cares. I’m done trying to figure it out – and even if I did what would it matter? I dont like it. It doesnt feel good, its craptastic behavior.

    So there is a guy that has been wanting to ask me out – he is hot, and a police officer, and just yummy all over. Sigh. Fine. Twist my arm. I guess I’ll go because CollegeCD certainly isnt “claiming” me. His feet are not in front of me pointed towards me. He is off just being …. him. Which now, is just not good enough for me. Look lets be honest. If he comes back around, I’ll hear him out. But its crazy to think that I’m exclusive with someone who doesnt even call me or text me anything substantial after we were intimate for the first time in a year and a half for a whole week. #lame.

    Also, I’ll put up my profile again on POF. I did look at tinder last night because wow, I was coughing all night and matched with some hotties. That was good for my ego, I”m not gonna lie. 🙂

    So there you go – onward and upwards. 🙂

  186.  #186Elsie on March 5, 2015 at 5:35 am

    @Indigo – I’m going to just comment again on your post because its lingering with me. You know CollegeCD and I have the same experience. I’ve known him since I was 18. And the last 2 years he and I keep ending up back together. He dates people, I date people, no one ever feels “right” and we end up back together. But the problems that were there the other times are still there now, and I refuse to believe the “sign” if it doesnt feel good to me. The Universe has no hold me that way, I control my own destiny. I decide what feels good and not, not the Universe. And so, for me, while I do love him (and boy, I really do love him) and I feel more like myself with him than I ever have with anyone on the planet, and absolutely adore him, I cant be with someone who isnt in front of me, who isnt working just as hard as I am to be present in the relationship. Who knows, someday maybe he can do it – or maybe he will text me next week with his revelations. But in the meantime, I cant let this sense of destiny that truly doesnt exist pollute my mind. I see a lot of myself in you, just as Kim does. And I had the same thing happen to me. Just remember that maybe you couldnt have relationships with these other men because of your emotional position, not theirs. Because you were still hung up on someone else. I know that was the case for Kim, and for me.

    I hope that helps. 🙂

  187.  #187Indigo on March 5, 2015 at 5:39 am


    I figured one of the Sirens would say something like that.

    And all I can say is that our stories are not the same. Things are not up and down with him – not since I’ve been leaning back and really working on myself anyway. They’ve been calm and consistent. He’s not hot and cold either these days, he’s warm and even-tempered and loving the majority of the time, and I’m happy.

    @ Elsie – it is ok with me. I find daily contact overwhelming. He doesn’t suit 99.9% of the female population, but he suits me.

  188.  #188Indigo on March 5, 2015 at 5:45 am

    Elsie 186,

    That’s fine. Again, my story is not the same as yours. D and I HAVE resolved a lot of our issues – I look back at so many of the things which used to be big issues between us which just aren’t any more. We do spend regular consistent time together every week and in many ways we do have the relationship that we want, so it’s not the same.

    I absolutely know without a shadow of a doubt that my personality is not the same as you and Kim. However much I like and respect you both, I am different, and I want different things from both of you. I can tell from the things you write.

  189.  #189Elsie on March 5, 2015 at 5:54 am

    @Indigo – Well, I certainly didnt mean to say you have a bad relationship etc. I really dont know your situation, I just know my own. 🙂 And yah, Kim and I are a lot alike LOL – thats fair. Right, Kim?

    I wanted to also say something that I saw from one of Rori’s posts from a long time ago that hit me really hard yesterday about my situation. You know I totally overfunction. I have a doctorate degree in overfunctioning. And so when CollegeCD didnt text me after being intimate and hasnt set up another date, I kept thinking – oh, what do I need to do, what did I do wrong. He’s dropped the ball here. And you know I love the part where Rori says – yes, he dropped the ball, but its not your job to pick it up. If you pick it up you are being the boy. And you know what? You are only picking it up because you think he wont. You overfunction and chase because you think that what you want will not show up for you. Yup. Exactly. Thats exactly what I was doing. Andyou know I”m so glad I didnt pick that ball up that he dropped because now I know where he stands which for the time being is not in front of me. I always put a little caveat in there, have you noticed that? Because even after all of it, man, I”m hoping that he picks that ball up. I would let him, and after everything we have been through, I would listen to him and allow him back in, but for right now he isnt so I have to deal with what is in front of me and not something I want to make up in my head (and boy, am I fantastic about doing that!)

    Anyway – just thought I would remind everyone of that because it really hit home with me yesterday and was pretty powerful. 🙂

  190.  #190Kim on March 5, 2015 at 6:24 am

    Indigo, I was just sharing my story like you shared yours, and it’s true, everybody wants different things but I guess we all came here for a reason.
    I followed yours for years just as you followed mine, and the last thing I remember was that you broke it off with him because you wanted a committment or something to the effect..and I must be honest, I haven’t been on here 24/7 so I might have missed that bit, and lots of other bits, it just reminds me of my past situation a lot.
    I used to get fed up and say ‘next time I need a commitment, no more pseudo relationship’ and then I would fall back into it without the commitment and exclusivity…and it would be great for a while and then not, a merry-go-round basically. I guess the fact that we have to ask a man whether he is even being exclusive, well, how does it feel? I was in the same position…and he was exclusive…but it wasn’t a relationship and in hindsight, I felt off balance a lot – searching within myself for the answers and faults, leaning back artificially etc. – and now I know that it was a lot of crumbs…. and while I can’t make assumptions on us being all the same or not, the reason why we are all here is because we had troubles with relationships and men…and not having the relationship/commitment we want. I guess?

    I can say that the viewpoint does change when you have all you want….I also thought I was a really free spirit who needed a lot of alone time and didn’t need to hear from a man for days on end, while I was with one like that…but in the end, I realize I was just selling myself short because I guess I didn’t feel I deserved to ‘have it all’…a devoted guy who can’t wait to speak to me and see me and commit to me, without me wondering if he is seeing others…and so on. That was my story and I see some parallels, but:

    I understand we are all different, I am just saying to stay open…because you deserve all that and more.

    I know you’ve got this…but me too, I wasted years on a man who couldn’t give much to me, in the name of ‘love’…don’t make the same mistake…well it may not be a mistake just ‘learning’…BUT:
    You might be missing out on something really beautiful that is waiting for you.
    Maybe not, who knows, this is your life and you can build it the way you want it…and if that means being happy with a man flitting in and out of your life, why not?! It certainly suited me for some time…and believe me, now that it is different, I have to really work on myself and my fears and triggers, but in the end, it just feels so good to be with someone who is 100% in…I had kinda forgotten how it feels.
    There is no struggle and no ‘leaning back’ (thinking of leaning back) and anxiety, it is a healthy normal ebb and flow now…..I wish it for everybody, I really do.
    Having said that, relationships are still negotiation and two different people coming together…but when the will is there from both sides to build something…’s just great.

  191.  #191Kim on March 5, 2015 at 6:26 am

    Dr Elsie, you should write a book….

  192.  #192Kim on March 5, 2015 at 6:30 am

    I mean, I even had a friend with benefits years ago…I thought it was great, we would go for was like a boyfriend without the work/commitment/time investment…looking back…I don’t know if it was happiness or just passing time thinking it’s the best I could get at that time.
    I certainly wasn’t unhappy with that…
    So I am not judging here, believe me, I just know I wouldn’t want to go back…but I know there are people who live this type of arrangement and even open marriages and proclaim to be happy. Maybe they are, maybe they aren’t…

  193.  #193Indigo on March 5, 2015 at 6:38 am


    I guess the difference is I feel I HAVE got something really beautiful. I almost wish I could show you a snapshot of what it’s like between us when we’re together and so contented. I feel so at peace. Cared for.

    And he doesn’t flit in and out of my life. That’s not true. He is there, he is loyal. We have a solid connection and solid communication.

    And this is not some free spirit, flight of fancy that I’m taking. I genuinely am very introverted, and I genuinely like LOTS of quiet and solitude. The fact that he gives me this is one of the MAIN reasons that I love him. It’s not the same as being distant. I travelled by myself overseas for two weeks and loved it. No I don’t always want to be by myself, but I’m not, by any means. D and I have tons of togetherness, more than many couples I know of. I am happy – I am not pining for something else, except to be properly moved in and settled down one day, but that will come at some point.

    I’m sorry if this sounds defensive, but I just know that I’m not like most women. And it is very hard to explain why this relationship makes me so happy, but it does. And it has nothing to do with him being handsome or rich or full of drama.

    I do appreciate your well wishes for me, I really do 🙂

  194.  #194Femininewoman on March 5, 2015 at 6:41 am

    I love Dr. Elsie!! 🙂

    Reading this conversation I am here saying to myself regardless of whether you have what you think you want or no, how about pushing the envelope for more? How about having it all?

    I guess if you never have it all you can’t really know what you are missing? right?

  195.  #195Mistea1 on March 5, 2015 at 6:59 am

    Andrea 175,
    Thanks for your info about your take on MusicTd. The “it was a lock down confusing and sluggish…drawn to . . yet repelled.” Yes, that resonates with me and I have left that church.

    After 2 months I am going back for selected performances and I plan to arrive late and leave early. This next one he won’t be playing at all. The organist from Westminster Abbey London England will play. I’m looking forward to that.

    Maybe this is a testament to my deep fear of intimacy but I’m not that interested in meeting Lawguy right now. I think he may be more reacting to the fact that his ex wife who lives nearby has just moved in with her boyfriend over the holidays.

    As for intellect, ha, ha. I wrote, ” I’m probably violating a rule of logic here.” He wrote, ” Don’t be so modest, you are violating all of them.” Very funny I thought. Anyway, he seems to want to teach me and writes back promptly. He seems kind, funny, witty and gets along with his daughter. So depending on the intensity of his asking to meet me and how long it’s past since his ex wife has moved in with the boyfriend I will decide then.

    Thanks for the insights.

    Oh yes, you might want to consider a written list of what is a deal breaker, what is a caution sign etc. When I’m in the throes of emotion I find it helpful too have something I can see to remind me of what is right for me.

  196.  #196Elsie on March 5, 2015 at 7:07 am

    Dr Elsie – LOL Yes, I do have a doctorate in overfunctioning and overmanaging with an emphasis in unrealistic expectations.

    Also – new post is up chicas. 🙂

  197.  #197Mistea1 on March 5, 2015 at 7:12 am

    Posie 176,
    Wow, intentional or not that must feel realy weird and uncomfortable for you.

    When I had a similar situation I ended up in China teaching English for a year. Lol. Still took a while to get over that one 🙂

  198.  #198Gemini Goddess on March 5, 2015 at 9:22 am

    Indigo 182

    “It’s not that we can’t express our feelings about things, but if we have an agenda which wants to change the other person or get them to do something, it’s not a good idea. I’ve realised that men really really want to be accepted and for us to see the good in them. We can’t get them to give us more of what we want by expressing our hurt and disappointment, but rather by inspiring that sense that they can make us happy and “win” with us.”

    I’m finally, FINALLY start to really get this, and it feels very peaceful actually.

    D relayed part of a conversation he was having with a friend (we often “tell” each other things about the relationship in this way). He said that he told his friend that one of the great things about our relationship is that he thinks I accept about 93% of who he is exactly the way he is, which is great because no matter how hard he tries, the real ‘him” just keeps popping up. …Funny guy 🙂

    This felt SO validating to hear. I have been SO conscious of being genuine with my feelings (I probably err on the side of communicating more, rather than less when I can. It’s just what feels best to me right now) AND not making them his fault.

  199.  #199Gemini Goddess on March 5, 2015 at 9:26 am

    …an aside to the above, I’ve started doing the following. After I bring something up that made me feel somehow yucky, and we have the conversation about it, I ask him how he feels the conversation went…how could I have communicated it better. Then we discuss that.

  200.  #200Lovergirl on March 5, 2015 at 10:35 am

    I enjoy reading about all the relationships the women on this blog talk about. Every relationship is different and every man is different and sometimes there are things some women are comfortable and happy with that others are not. I feel like that is okay and part of why there is someone out there for everyone. Just reading and seeing the differences is helpful in contemplating my own circumstances.

    Anyhow, last night my guy wanted me to come to his place to do work. He did not hug or touch me in any way and I was disappointed about that but tried not to lean forward. He did kind of open up about some things that had nothing to do with me, but showed some vulnerability. I just listened, mostly.

    Twice, men called on the phone while I was with him. I didn’t answer either time. The first time he didn’t comment but the second he started asking questions, wanting to know who it was and showing a little jealousy. He made a comment about how it probably wasn’t going to be long.. I was like long for what? And he didn’t answer.

    After I left I texted him that I felt sad we hadn’t even hugged. He said “it’s fine, we can mentally hug each other” and that just set me off. I said I don’t want to come over if I am going to be treated like I have the plague, that it makes me feel untrusting to go from where we were at, to that. I said I don’t feel like I deserve that. I said a couple of things I know I shouldn’t have, like I told him it was retarded to say we could give each other “mental hugs”.

    He told me to call one of my other men and complain to them. I said I don’t have to complain to them because they would be happy to give me a hug. He was like don’t you have a pole to go ride? I said no, I hadn’t had sex with anyone since him, that I just had a miscarriage and I’ve been sad and bleeding and feeling bad, not like having sex with random men.

    So he calls me and starts grilling me about the guy who called on the phone earlier, acting like he doesn’t believe I’m not on my way to have sex with him. (I didn’t even call the guy back, I’m not interested in sleeping with him).

    Then he asks me if I am going to get married someday. I said, I don’t know, maybe, or maybe all the other men out there will be like you and not want to be with me because I have too many kids. He asked why I was attacking him. I said that wasn’t an “attack” and he insisted that it was, that he has nothing against my having kids.

    He said that my saying I didn’t want to come to his place if he wasn’t hugging me anymore was an “ultimatum” and that he is not giving in to ultimatums so he guesses I won’t be coming over anymore. I said no, it just feels like a triple rejection. No more sex, no more emotional stuff and not even a hug?

    He said it was not a rejection and that he didn’t realize it was so important to me. He said I could have hugged HIM, so why didn’t I? I said he didn’t seem open to it. So he said okay, if it means that much to you, I will hug you. I could tell in his voice that he was smiling and not opposed to hugging me at all. I get the feeling he actually LIKED that I was getting worked up about it.

    So I got what I wanted but I also feel like I was chasing (begging?) for affection from him. Ugh.

  201.  #201Zia on March 5, 2015 at 6:50 pm

    lovergirl – how long has this been going on for? and he hasn’t committed to you? yet he gets jealous of other men? i feel yucky reading that. he said the “right things” when he thought you had lost the pregnancy, but then the instant he thought maybe you hadn’t, he accused you of tricking him?? i felt so angry reading that! everything i read about this guy triggers me so much, because i’ve been there and i’ve lived it. that feels so yucky :/ chasing for affection… done it. getting angry at a man for not giving me the type of affection i need, check.

    i know this is your journey. i’ve lived a similar journey. i am not you. i feel angry, i feel dismayed, i feel yucky, remembering my own experiences. but through that i feel good for having experienced them. grateful.

  202.  #202Lovergirl on March 5, 2015 at 9:51 pm


    Thank you for your response. It gives me some things to think about.

    I have been seeing him for a little over 10 months. No we are not in a committed relationship, and yes he still gets jealous, though he tries not to. In the beginning, we were very openly both sleeping with others but it has gotten to where he says he can’t handle that anymore and doesn’t want to know about other men (yet he can’t seem to keep himself from asking if there is any evidence of another guy calling, etc.)

    He apologized for the hurtful things he said about me trying to “trap” him. I’m not sure what provoked that reaction out of him at the time. I know it was very stressful to him, not knowing what was going on and also that there are other people in his life (specifically one woman that is interested in him) that had tried to tell him that my intent was to “trap” him the first time around. He told her he didn’t believe that about me, but who knows what was said when it happened again. Anyway, his apology felt sincere.

    Sorry to bring up all those yucky feelings! I do identify with some of them. If nothing else, maybe I will learn from this somehow.

  203.  #203Zia on March 5, 2015 at 11:40 pm

    lovergirl – no need to apologise 🙂 feelings coming up is a wonderful thing, no matter what those feelings are x

  204.  #204Lotus on March 6, 2015 at 9:56 am

    I feel confused.. I sense as I’m closing the door on the H… I feel I am becoming more ready to open another door to new guy. The door seems to be quite symbolic of my heart.

    I feel good that this new positive dating experience has happened without me doing much at all, just by responding and expressing, and trying to stay curious, and allowing him to take the lead. So many of the tools feel more natural now, no more chasing and yearning, just responding! The tools even brought my H back, and I feel empowered to have a choice!

    Two weeks ago, I have told new guy, who will be called Am for Amaretto, ‘I want to slow down with s*x and I don’t want it to be any kind of focus’. He said he’s happy to go at my pace and just wants to do stuff with me. A mutual friend has told me how smitten he is with me, and it’s clear he likes me. But since then, I find after a date, one thing leads to another, and he is so good at making me feel good, I end up in his bed again. I feel relaxed and happy with him, comfortable and sensual, and it feels natural. And I feel fine afterwards, which wasn’t the case in close encounters with other guys, so there are no major triggers there. I just feel my head is in conflict with my heart, and body.

    And when he went away last weekend, we couldn’t wait to see each other but kept it close to our chests until we got intimate again that evening. I saw him with the intention of going back to my own place, and surprised myself again as I stayed because it felt good.

    It’s just when I’m away, I think to myself have I slept with him too soon after 6 wks.. I wanted to make the conscious sober decision to go to the next stage, and I didn’t, so maybe I’m feeling a bit untrusting of myself. I wonder how well does he know me beyond what he thinks is cool, does he even know what my favourite colour is, I asked him about his childhood, but he hasn’t asked about mine. I guess what’s coming up is whether I trust he truly knows how to look in my heart, and get to know me on a deeper level, beyond the intimacy. So I’m wondering how much do I trust myself? So I wonder if I should initiate this, find out his fears and what makes him happy. But I want the man to lead… I want to get to know him more, and vice versa.. beyond the physical intimacy. I guess I can do it from a curious point of view tonigh..

    When he says ‘It would make me really happy if you stay’, I feel slightly numb and smile to him. I stay, and think ‘well what about MY happiness’ and know that I feel happy enough. I know it’s up to me to practise my boundaries, but at the same time I feel safe with him, and allow them to change when I’m with him.

    I feel such good vibes with him but now I’m trying to look for a fault, nit-pick and my brain feels like a chatterbox again.

    I want to practice being in my heart even more tonight. I’m not sure what my true boundary is around s*x. I feel confused. I told him the first person I slept with was my H, and it turned into a 15 yr relationship with him, so I have some fears about being too comfortable too soon in a relationship. Talk about a stupid fear that I can have s*x and want him to be my forever man!! Yet want isn’t the word right now. Just searching in my heart and trying to experience the feelings. As I’m exiting my marriage, I want to be pursued more, especially as I am walking my own path, I want the man to chase after me. How does he chase me if I am being intimate with him…?

    I don’t want to feel that i’m giving myself away too much by spending time in his bed, yet at the same time I am having a blast with him… It’s nice to feel relaxed and comfortable, this feels new to me. I am wondering what’s wrong with this situation as there doesn’t seem to be many triggers…

    I feel a bit scared to open up to him about my confusion in case I’ll spoil things and make things more real… I’m scared to feel any awkwardness between us, and how that would change his vibe. I wonder if I can take s*x off the table, but then I’m not sure if I really want to when it feels natural…. Oh man!!!

  205.  #205Lotus on March 6, 2015 at 9:59 am

    Just need to breathe… relax.. breathe… enjoy the goodness that keeps coming.

  206.  #206Lotus on March 6, 2015 at 10:20 am

    117 – yay for you Andrea!!

  207.  #207Lotus on March 6, 2015 at 10:21 am

    We learn the lessons from the bad eggs, so the good eggs can experience our real yummy inner goddess goodness! We crack the bad eggs, look inside for their nutrition value and decide to move on when it’s a big fat NO! Something is very off!

    We take the time to get to know the guy, beyond the chemistry before we give all the pieces away… or is that wrong, are we meant to be an open book showing the beating heart… but I also want to be a mystery.. one to be discovered and revelled in…

    ..The distant shore that he yearns to crash his sails on, the muse who keeps him going through a tough week, the goddess who soothes his soul.

    We can be goddess to many men, but I get to choose who will be my partner, my king. For he who treats me like a Queen, shall become a King.

    Allana Pratt, sensational diva goddess healer, opened a revelation to me last week, that if we treat men as kings, as in talk to them as if they were kingly, he is able to rise to his potential.

    So I say, I feel wonderful and adored, thank you. You are a treasure, I feel so lovely being with you.

  208.  #208Lotus on March 6, 2015 at 10:42 am

    Painting my nails getting ready for my date, Mr Am is preparing dinner and will come to pick me up… Really not sure how I feel now.. if I want to stay over yet I will prepare my bag..

    Wanting to see him and feel what comes… deep breaths… now sure what to say to him tonight..

    Hoping a siren voice may respond tonight…

  209.  #209Femininewoman on March 6, 2015 at 11:36 am

    “I will hug you. I could tell in his voice that he was smiling and not opposed to hugging me at all.” For now of course but when it registers that it was not his idea when he starts to feel pressured by expectations he might become resentful.

    “I get the feeling he actually LIKED that I was getting worked up about it.” Of course he would get an ego boost now he feels he has been put on a pedestal

  210.  #210Gemini Goddess on March 6, 2015 at 11:48 am

    Hi Lotus-

    Regarding sleeping with him, confusion around your boundaries, and him chasing you, I can see how confusing this would be especially given the situation with H having been the first and then only for so long.

    I personally don’t believe that just because you’ve slept with him you give these things up. I’m not saying sleep with everyone who crosses your path, but I like sex and when I was circular dating had one I slept with who was never going to turn into “the one”. I also don’t think that sleeping with someone means they won’t chase you. That’s putting ALL the emphasis on them wanting sex, and not the rest of you. It’s about how you act when you’re NOT intimate…maintaining your own life…that is so attractive.

    Regarding boundaries, you don’t have to know what they are. It’ll come to you. It took me a good sloppy two years after my divorce to figure it out. I could tell you stories, but I’m not sorry. I had to go through it.

    You are SO aware, and that’s such a GOOD thing. Outside of that, there’s no wrong answer. 🙂


  211.  #211Lotus on March 6, 2015 at 12:27 pm

    Thank you GG. I’m currently stealing time in the bathroom to check in!
    I am enjoying watching him preparing dinner and cocktails in the kitchen… Enjoying the feeling of curiousity and liking this man!

  212.  #212Gemini Goddess on March 6, 2015 at 12:53 pm


    SO funny! That was me last week…stealing time to check-in in the bathroom. Ha!

    Have a great (guilt free) date, no matter what you do!


  213.  #213Emerson on March 6, 2015 at 7:31 pm

    10 Gemini Goddess
    Thank you for sharing that….yes that describes how I felt with RecycledCD…feeling so insecure that he will connect with someone else…he always felt like a slippery fish.