swingSo I’m sick. A cold. Bad, obnoxious, noisy, icky cough. Not a big deal. We women blow through these things. But I ache, and I want to lay down. Puts me at a romantic disadvantage, I think. Don’t look great. Feel sloggy, so I must look sloggy to my husband.

All of a sudden, he looks even cuter.

Can’t do anything for anyone – don’t want to, anyway. Even so, I try to do myself out of my malaise. I write. I organize. I clean the kitchen. And just to make myself feel better, I have the urge to take care of my husband, who also has a cold. Or maybe my urge is not to make myself feel better, but to make myself feel more indispensable. If I don’t look good, I pretty sure better do good.

Suddenly, I realize all my activity is annoying. Sit down, I can hear him say, though he’s not actually saying it. If I got him dinner and massaged his head and brought him tea, he’d gladly take it. He’d take whatever I’d give. Take it all.

But he wouldn’t like me better.

In fact, he really doesn’t like it at all. Oh, he likes the good stuff, alright, but it doesn’t make him reach for me, or pet my hair, or try to have sex with me in the hallway even though neither of us can stand up for more than a minute. What inspires him to do that is the sight of me asleep in the bed at four in the afternoon because I feel lousy and I’m taking care of myself. He’s inspired when I take care of myself.

What he can’t stand is that air of  — I’m going to impress you all by getting all my work done and pretending I’m not exhausted, even though I let a complaint and an Oooooo I feel lousy slip out every once in awhile. He thinks, when I do that: Is she so much better than me? —  and turns away. So much for romance.

This is an extreme case, but it works the same if we’ve just had a bad day at the office, or our fellow hasn’t called, or we just feel somehow that giving to someone and nurturing someone is the way to his heart. It isn’t.

Have you ever noticed that on your worst days – bad hair, a cold, a huge pimple – you seem to be a man magnet? Every woman I talk to has noticed this (when she’s allowed herself to notice). It’s not because you look bad. It’s because you seem approachable. You seem vulnerable. Open. You seem, for a change in most men’s experience, to be a woman who might allow herself to be taken care of, by him. Instead of what he’s used to – a woman who’d be willing to take care of him.

Giving is what men are supposed to do. Women are supposed to receive the love, affection and gifts that men give, and then give love and affection back to them. Though many of us have caught onto this, it’s challenging to stop doing what we’ve always done, what we’ve been told is the way to do things, and to fly in the face of the fallout we fear. So I’m going to tackle one little issue – Nurturing.

Nurturing is masculine. If you want to get what he wants to give, stop nurturing your man.

Radical as this sounds, try it. Stop doing. Stop giving. Stop massaging a man’s feelings. Stop helping your date do the relationship thing and let him flounder until he figures it out. He will.

This whole concept of nurturing is a dilemma for most of us. We think of mothering, nurturing, caring for our young as a feminine aspect of ourselves.

It isn’t.

Nurturing and caring for others may be a female trait – motherhood is female – but it’s still about action! Nurturing is about doing. Giving. Your energy goes out of you and toward or into someone else. When you give, you are acting from a masculine energy place.

We are so accustomed to the idea of nurturing being feminine, we get confused. We think being loving to our men is nurturing them. Massaging their bodies, minds and spirits. There is nothing wrong with the idea of nurturing – it’s the form our nurturing takes that causes so much difficulty. We are all composed of masculine and feminine (yin and yang) energies. We move through them fluidly at our best, and are stuck in one or the other at our worst.

Too often, many of us find ourselves stuck at one extreme or the other. We either give too much all the time and then find ourselves resentful all the time, or we go the other way and make ourselves emotionally unavailable to our dates, our husbands, our boyfriends, and every man we meet.

Too often, our nurturing energies are perceived by men as mothering. Our actions seem intrusive. We seem to be judging them and finding them coming up short – otherwise why would they need taking care of? On the other hand, they love attention. Don’t we all?

To strike some sort of balance when we are all so mightily out of balance, I’m asking you to pull back to zero.

To at least imagine pulling back to zero. The baby steps you actually take may seem huge. When you stop doing for your man what he doesn’t need you to do, yet has grown accustomed to you doing and may resent you not doing (even though he’ll certainly find himself relieved that you’ve stopped doing them), things may get messy before they get better. But they will get better.

This is all about Overfunctioning. What does Overfunctioning and Overnurturing look like in YOUR love life?

Let me know!  Love,  Rori

239 Comments

  1.  #1Erin on September 19, 2009 at 12:39 pm

    Oh…I love this one! This has been such a great lesson for me lately. I got a hard lesson on it when my husband went on a 6 week deployment and it was a school where he had access to everything (i.e. no need for care packages, etc.) I hadn’t realized how much, well even at home too, that I was nurturing (I like to call it controlling every single minute of his happiness…lol) him. I have been asking for what -I- want lately…I have been letting him just “do his thing”…instead of the image I get when I am hovering of the genie in Aladdin “poof, whadya need, poof! whadya need?) 🙂 Its almost amazing. I still do things for him…but it is even more fun because its usually when he asks now instead of offering. I mean, truthfully, it really is kind of pointing out where we think they are lacking…but more importantly it always leads back to where we are lacking. “I feel insecure…thus, I notice your “flaws” more and it feels good to fix someone else” Its crazy obvious when you sit back and look at it. Love this post…love it!

    As far as the balance goes…I think there is a really important piece that works on this. I love doing things for him or for our family and not tell him…ever if possible. If he brings up and thanks me that I took out the garbage because ….great…I give an honest and sincere thank you and that is it. I don’t tell him “oh..its no biggie”…I don’t try to get more attention off it “oh..thanks for noticing baby…I really appreciate it…its nice to be appreciated” or even a grumpy one…which I rarely do but have at times “yah, SOMEONE had to get it out” ….all of this is overfunctioning and begging for love..which is not that authentic piece that they just love. I have understood this concept for so long but have never really tested myself and looked at where it is in my life and then pulled it back. I have started recently…(the best is when I asked him to make us coffee last night…I would normally just get up and do it….he was so excited to do it and take care of me in his own way…he even asked if I needed other things…crazy) and it truthfully comes from your own self worth…your own loving of yourself. It comes from not believing that nasty little thought…”I need him to love me. I need to please him to love me.” That thought is simply not a true one but I have believed it for …well, all of my life. Amazing when you question the belief and drop it…truly life changing!



  2.  #2alias girl on September 19, 2009 at 12:49 pm

    i overfunction by wanting to “help” too much. i used to do it a lot on this blog as well. but say a man casually says i wonder if i’m still young enough to go out for pro football.

    seriously in my head i will think this is his unmanifested life long dream and jump on the internet and start reseaeching the whole thing.

    i tend to constantly think how can i make his life better? how can i please him by Doing something for him.

    ugh i feel kind of ick just writing it. i guess the good news i don’t actually go back to him (mostly not) with all this overfunctioning. you know i don’t have a typed report about how he can go pro football. i don’t have a bag of gifts for him everyday of things i saw in my travels that he might like. i don’t have a full course meal on the talbe. but i think about all this stuff alot. i think about the guy i like alot. (when i am with someone- there is no one that occupies that space right now)

    also i don’t call everytime i have the urge to. thank goodness or i feel pretty sure it’d probably be too much. i get really attached really easy. it could be an urge to enmesh. which probably isn’t the way to go if i want something long term.



  3.  #3alias girl on September 19, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    i feel so excited! i am at a breakdancing event and this event is going to sel out and i got here early and i’m in! 🙂



  4.  #4Ann on September 19, 2009 at 5:50 pm

    Have fun Alias Girl.



  5.  #5Callista on September 19, 2009 at 5:54 pm

    Rori, I hope you feel better!!! I’ve been meaning to ask you… So this is great when you’re dating a guy, you can give back without giving too much… what happens when you get married? How do you fulfill the “feminine” role of cooking, cleaning, laundry, serving, etc. (housework and entertaining) without seeming nurturing and overfunctioning?
    Thanks, Callista



  6.  #6Rori Raye on September 19, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    Whoa, Callista…housework is not Feminine! It’s a job like any other, and should be delegated by preference and abilities. If you are fortunate enough to not have to work outside the home, then you’ve chosen the housework as your job in the relationship. Unless there are children…I certainly know I wouldn’t be making that choice. Love, Rori



  7.  #7Callista on September 19, 2009 at 8:21 pm

    Hi Rori,
    I’m not married anymore but I was for 7 years, and I worked outside the home plus did all the housework and cleaning and cooking, etc. (I was told it was my “job” as a woman.) So you’re basically saying that a man and woman divide up the housework? (Like negotiate who does what?) Or hire outside help? I just want to know what I should do once I get married someday, because I do work outside the home, and I plan to do so when I get married also. How did you and your husband divide it up? Just curious. Thanks!
    Love,
    Callista



  8.  #8Aminata on September 19, 2009 at 11:08 pm

    overfunctioning in my love life looks like me trying to teach my sweetie something. I’m getting better at just kicking back and not telling him too much (yea!), but sometimes it does come out. i

    t’s funny, because he is intrigued by that side, but when I catch myself, breathe and lean back, he just grabs me! I want to be grabbed more than teaching him a lesson. whatever he needs to figure he will do it. and when I think like that, then he feels comfortable and I end up learning more about HIM. He shares his wisdom and his feelings, even the ones that are scary. All while holding my hand or hugging me. It’s nice. Gonna keep working on that.



  9.  #9Aminata on September 19, 2009 at 11:20 pm

    Alias girl- I have that helping problem too. Can we make a pact and sit on or hands or just nod when a guy tells us their problem. I tried it the other day when a guy was telling me his drawn out problem. I think he expected me to help him, but instead I said, “Geeze. That’s a complicated situation.” That felt so free!

    Callista, people do negotiate chores. I’ve done it with almost every guy I’ve dated. The guys I didn’t do it with… well let’s say it was a fiasco. I always ended up feeling resentful because I felt like I was doing too much, or I ended up nagging the guy. Annoying! For the both of us!

    Try it, it is fun. For instance, I cook, my BF washes the dishes. He cooks(ok makes sandwiches), he washes the dishes. We get take out (not often). He washes the dishes. Sometimes I help, but not too often because he knows I don’t like doing dishes. I like cooking! That’s good. Most other chores, we do together. It’s kinda like team work practice.



  10.  #10gina on September 20, 2009 at 12:05 am

    I overfunction by THINKING TOO MUCH. I’ve spent a lot of time analyzing and trying to fix things and make things happen.
    I had an opportunity to be a girl the other night and it felt good. Johnny picked me up to go to a movie, and on the way, the car made a weird noise. He checked it out and something was lodged in his tire. We made it to the movie theater and i was tempted to come up with solutions but I sat quietly and let him lead. as we were walking into the movie theater I said “I don’t mind if we skip the movie if that’s what you think we should do. What do you think?” He decided we should deal with the car.
    I asked him if he wanted me to hand him stuff (as he changed the tire) he said no thanks. So I took off my heels and sat on the parking lot ground. He looked at me and laughed for a minute and then did his thing. It was super cute to see him taking care of business. Eventually he did ask me to hand him stuff and to pour water on his hands to clean them. He thanked me and said that I “calm him.” Before we left we kissed and it was nice.

    However, he did this thing where he breathes in my ear and I hate it. I didn’t tell him how I feel about that. If he saw my face while he was doing it, he would know how I feel. I don’t want to hurt his feelings, but tolerating stuff like that sucks. I know he’s trying to “give” me pleasure. Is this one of those situations where I ought to tolerate? or speak up?

    Since we missed the movie, we went to Blockbuster to rent one. We played a video game that was like the Beatles guitar hero game – whatchamacallit. I beat him severely. twice. that didn’t feel too good. how about that kind of stuff? Is it overfunctioning to win? I gotta say that sorta sucks. I’m feeling a little sad about the boy/girl dynamic. For me I think I’d be lying to myself if denied that some of this feels like a sacrifice. I feel like I have to sacrifice some of the things that make me feel strong and powerful. I have to give up some of my power for the sake of a relationship. that’s how it seems, and that sucks a little. I guess I’m coming to terms with it. Maybe I’ll see it differently eventually.



  11.  #11gina on September 20, 2009 at 1:24 am

    I think I was overfunctioning/leaning forward later when i asked him what his favorite part of a woman’s body is. Btw, I feel like “oh gag me” when i think of myself asking it. what I really wanted was to hear his thoughts on sex, cause i see him restraining himself, and i just wonder what all that is about. but I was surprised by his answer – first he said that you can’t dissect a person into parts: I liked that idea. but then he said, “have I ever asked you what parts of me you find attractive?” and I said “no.” and he said “would you like me to?” and I said “no” (I was sorta in shock absorbing it all – I wasn’t really considering the actual question, I was observing his reaction) and he said “exactly. it’s a weird question.” but then he said “okay, here. you want to know what I find attractive about you? your eyes. they’re very intense, and they drew me to you right away.” I felt bad for asking a question that he found so unappealing. but then I also feel weird that he wouldn’t answer honestly, but was trying to appease me in some way. i feel sad that he had no idea how to appease me – his response did NOTHING for me, except make me feel suspicious of why he couldn’t answer the question more honestly. for the first time I didn’t think he seemed very manly. the thought crossed my mind “is he gay?” which I do not think so at all. but that is how thrown i was that he couldn’t lighten up about telling me that i’m “hot”. Maybe he thinks it’s disrespectful. How can I open the door for hotness, without losing respect? and without overfunctioning? I feel sad that many guys have conveyed that sex with a woman that isn’t their wife = disrespect. It makes me feel bad being “sexual” with them. It makes me want to have a “lover” – a strictly physical relationship with a man, so that I don’t have to deal with the madonna/whore balancing act. But then I feel like I want to deal with madonna/whore dilemma. Is it a figment of my/society’s imagination? is it natural law? I like the idea of being a pinup girl. i would love to be a deserving man’s personal pinup girl. That is exactly what I want. But i want respect, too. that seems like a contradiction.



  12.  #12gina on September 20, 2009 at 1:29 am

    okay, so wait. that’s what the whole “siren” idea is about. Scratch the pinup thing – cause there’s something infantile about that stereotype. The siren is a much more powerful image. Okay. I want to own my sexuality. I intend to explore this area more, and find what really works for me. In my head, marriage seems like sexual liberation. but between here and there, I want to get more clear on the role of sex in my relationships – cause even though I don’t want to have intercourse, I still want to be intimate and sexual.



  13.  #13gina on September 20, 2009 at 1:36 am

    At least I think so. I mean sex feels good. but mostly I want to experience connection with a man so that we know whether we are physically compatible. Maybe actual fulfilled pleasure can be postponed. I kinda like that idea.



  14.  #14Rori Raye on September 20, 2009 at 3:49 am

    Aminata, Welcome, and this is a great help to all of us…thank you for letting us know how this works for you…Love, Rori



  15.  #15Rori Raye on September 20, 2009 at 3:52 am

    Callista, we figured it out over the years. If a chore was something he said he wanted to do, but then didn’t follow through, we renegotiated and either I tried it on and he took something else, or just whoever notices it (like the garbage) does it first. Basically, I do so little, it makes it so much easier to figure out a way to get things done. Yes, I have cleaning help once every two weeks — shocking how much that helps. Love, Rori



  16.  #16Erika on September 20, 2009 at 8:36 am

    Rori,

    Thanks for this post. I’m experimenting right now with investing absolutely nothing except my presence. Even in a full-on relationship. For me, this is less about what I’m “doing” (though I’m not doing much, but I did for example drive to BM because that felt safer to me, I didn’t want to be vulnerable at that time, and we had a very open conversation about why I felt that way).

    It’s more about not thinking into the future at all, with a focus on What am I gaining and learning from this relationship right now?

    It’s about relaxing. It’s about realizing that so often when we “give,” we are actually expecting something in return without saying that expectation out loud. Which leads to feeling resentment later if the expectation is not fulfilled.



  17.  #17tinque on September 20, 2009 at 8:37 am

    ‘i would love to be a deserving man’s personal pinup girl. That is exactly what I want. But i want respect, too. that seems like a contradiction.’

    GINA – It’s not a contradiction at all, and in fact it’s not only possible, its fabulous. YOU get to be all kinds of different sirens ie. all aspects of yourself can come out to play.
    And if he’s the right man, he will will not only respect ALL those wonderful parts of you, he will love and adore them. The shy sylph, the loving/lovely lady, the nurturing nymph, the sensuous siren, and the sexy “slut”.
    And it’s SO much fun having the freedom to explore and express all these parts of you with a great guy.

    “mostly I want to experience connection with a man so that we know whether we are physically compatible.”

    Everyone is different, and this may very well be the best way for you to know if you are compatible with a man.
    For me there was something from the beginning, an attraction, a connection, but my true journey to the heart, mine and his, was best discovered strolling through the beauty and deep intensity of sexual exploration and experience, connection and communion.
    xxoo



  18.  #18Linda on September 20, 2009 at 9:17 am

    Overfunctioning. I resent the word. It messes with my head and my persona. It feels like I am be accused of something bad just by being myself. I am a giver and nurturing by nature.It does not feel masculine, is it really?… It starts by picking dandiloins in the yard and bringing them to your mom, “Here Mom, I picked these just for you”. She glows,thanks you, puts them in a dixie cup and sets them on the window sil. Wow you feel like you made her happy and smile…. Maybe none of you did that, nobody told me to do it, I just did as a small child, something deep inside propelled me in that direction.

    I am examining my attitudes and beliefs in my life right now. I certainly want to find happiness and my mojo. I was married forever it seems. I did get to stay home and not work a 8-5 job. I got to be there for my children. Full time mother, stay at home housewife. I cleaned, cooked, grocery, shopped, laundry, ironed, mowed the grass… he took out the trash, As time went on I did resent it. I asked for help, no response or things would get done poorly. I even then just leaned back and did nothing. I did not redo what was not done or not done well… My family just did not care. It just did not get done then. The only one that was miserable was ME. I HATED living in a house that was cluttered and unkept and dirty. I stopped doing and they didnt start. I used to think, “you are going to miss me when I ‘m gone”. I am gone and They didn’t. It was self flattery on my part.

    I dont know what to do with the giving energy in me. This article messes with my head and being. When I sat back and did nothing, leaned back…I did not experience anyone stepping up or leaning toward me. I have experimented with this in my circular dating and the same thing has happened. soo….when does this work like you say?

    The last man I was involved with was a taker. Not a giver. He was self absorbed and negative most of the time. His description of his childhood was not warm or nurturing. He has gone through women like water, always finding something in each that was missing or would be deal breaker. I became catagorized like that too. There were things that I did that could be catagorized as overfunctioning with him I suppose. I still feel I overfuction by thinking about stuff that happened with him, trying to figure it out so I learn from it, sometimes wishing I could turn back the clock and have a “do over” because …. ugh

    What I want is to be me. I dont want to be worried about what I say, or how I give or if it is too much or too little. I can get all bogged down and just want flow in the stream that is me. I get the concept of stop doing the things that a man can do for himself. I understand not doing to be validated or loved more or creating need. But I still am a giver and I still want to be me and give.

    Linda



  19.  #19Callista on September 20, 2009 at 9:29 am

    Thanks so much Rori and Aminata!

    I think I really messed up in this regard in my last relationship. It was a long distance relationship, and when I went to visit him I did nothing, which was good. He did all the cleaning, housework, cooking, etc. at his place. But then, when he came to my place, he expected me to do all the cooking. I don’t particularly like cooking, but I figured, he doesn’t have much money, he came all the way to see me, and he hates eating in restaurants. So I always cooked at home, no matter how exhausted I was from work or entertaining him. Then he started being demanding! I’d make him a pie with store bought crust, then he’d want *homemade* crust instead. If I said I was too tired to cook, and ask if we could go out to dinner instead, he’d insist we stay in and make dinner.

    I know now that first of all I shouldn’t have gotten involved in an exclusive long distance relationship, and secondly his visits should have been an opportunity for him to show me how he could nurture me and I could receive (for example, he could have cooked at home for me instead). But I think this is something I personally need to work on – I just feel responsible for the housework and cooking in the relationship, probably due to my ex husband’s influence, and I need to reprogram myself to do less and feel ok with that. I know when I’m working at home I’m definitely in my “boy” energy, and I understand when you say it’s not “feminine” but I’m struggling with feeling responsible for these tasks as a woman.

    Thanks again, and I do hope you’re feeling better, Rori!!!
    Love,
    Callista



  20.  #20Erika on September 20, 2009 at 9:55 am

    Callista,

    I hear you saying “should” a lot, and I notice that whenever the “should” word comes up for me, it’s a sign that there is guilt there that needs to cleared.

    Guilt attracts criticism from others, so whenever I notice other people doing something outrageous (such as insisting on homemade crust instead of appreciating that I just made them a pie), I go within and clear my guilt and inner conflict about whatever it was I did. Then the external criticism disappears.



  21.  #21cookie on September 20, 2009 at 11:01 am

    I see myself in many of these stories, like linda and probably most of us, I am a giver, nurturer, even as a young girl people called me mama. It feels awful when that love through giving back is not returned I could sit here all day and say that my giving is without expectation but it would not be true. I remember always doing little things and big ones for my mom to make her happy and like gina (I think) noone told me to do them I just did. I also remember not doing those same things for my dad bc I also



  22.  #22cookie on September 20, 2009 at 11:09 am

    Learned that he didn’t appreciate it. Our relationship grew apart I guess bc I didn’t know how to make him happy and I also didn’t know how to let him just love me as his daughter. This i suppose has manifested in my relationships. Many men have walked away from me, I never did anything for them at all. The guy I’m with I feel sometimes I do too much which makes me resentful and feeling unloved. I always thought that the other guys didn’t love me bc I didn’t do anything but doing all this hasn’t made my



  23.  #23cookie on September 20, 2009 at 11:15 am

    Man love me more either. I does feel draining I’m still figuring out how to balance. I wish I could see myself outside myself but I think my guy is a reflection of me. When we have issues I feel mostly its bc I’m not taking care of myself enough. The other night he was mad and blew up on me. I felt his negative energy n went into the bathroom to sing and dance n make myself feel better, he got even more mad and did everything he could to shut me out. I couldn’t take it anymore so I screamed I don’t want



  24.  #24cookie on September 20, 2009 at 11:19 am

    I don’t want to be here n not be hugged or touched. It escalated into this big thing. I didn’t know what to do I refuse to be invisible in my relationships anymore. Now I need to learn how to be less of a drama queen.



  25.  #25Angeline on September 20, 2009 at 11:53 am

    Right now I’m tempted to overfunction by sending an email to this guy I have a crush on. The pros and cons of doing this are whirling around my head, but in my heart I know I need to just let things lay.

    The part Rori writes about things being messier at first when you stop overfunctioning really resonates with me. I feel like since I started incorporating some of the tools my life has been so much more precious and beautiful to me, but on the other hand, I’m feeling so challenged by people who just seem to want me to stay in my cage! I know I just need to stay true to me and not think about them too much, but it’s interesting how much changes when you change your vibe. I’m getting such positive, loving responses from some people, and then bullsh*t from others. The negative responses are really triggering, frightening, and exhausting!

    I also want to say I appreciate so much having this space to come to, and hearing all of your stories. And, of course, a million thanks to Rori!

    ~ Angeline



  26.  #26alias girl on September 20, 2009 at 12:43 pm

    i felt like a foreigner in my family while growing up. i loved my father and felt very infatuated with him but the other people felt like people i didn’t know and i just felt weird and shut down.

    my relationship to my father felt imaginary relationship-ish. i was always waiting for the day he had time for me or the day he would “see” me. i was also waiting for the day my father became happy because i knew THEN i could be happy ttoo.

    my relationships with men have had these similar characteristics.. part of this is why i focussed on trying to “help” them to a place of having time for me. (and waiting and waiting and waiting for a crumb of their precious attention)

    also why i wanted to “help” them in their life so they could reach a place of happiness. THEN we could be happy together.

    i believe this is often referred to as co-dependency?

    that was all in my past. today-now- i feel happy to be with a well funded man who loves to spend time with me and takes responsibility for his level of happiness in his life and manages to be good spirited for most of the time.

    i feel good about this. ahhh yes. i feel good about this. thank you.



  27.  #27Erika on September 20, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    Let’s hear it for well funded men 🙂

    Burning Man Guy had a huge financial shift this past year. I like to take some of the credit because I did some tapping with him months ago about memories from his childhood and his father’s relationship to money.

    Anyway, now he is chivalrous and visits me and brings bottles of wine to share with me. And I feel happy when he tells me stories of how he is manifesting money into his life because it’s such a huge shift in his patterning.

    So I guess we can “help” men become what they want them to be. It’s just that in helping him, my energy was coming from a completely different place than the dysfunctional patterns that Rori insightfully writes about.

    Same with my dad. I’m starting to help him with EFT the same way, but I’m not doing it for him. I’m doing it for myself, because I don’t want to live with the old patterns anymore. I know that when he heals, he will shift. And then he’ll be much more the dad I always wanted him to be.



  28.  #28Tina on September 20, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    I’ve noticed this a lot, when I’m dressed for a night out or whatever men seem more reluctant to approach me , when I’m looking like a bum they seem to have no problem wanting to say hi or comment on the stuff I bought at the grocery store or wherever I’m at. I usually feel self conscious. Running COMMANDO with my gym pants on , hair all up in a messy ponytail, no shower, teeth unbrushed oh this could get worse lol, seems I’m more approachable that way but I always where lipgloss lol. I’ve learned to slow down my walk and it’s always a confidence booster 🙂

    Hope your feeling much better soon Rori



  29.  #29Tina on September 20, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    I always felt the men who me approach in all my ungoddessiness, had low standards or something. I would feel less attractive about myself. This gives me a new perspective on things.



  30.  #30cookie on September 20, 2009 at 4:23 pm

    The other night my guy told me I talk to much. To place it in context it was the night when I yelled and said I don’t want to be here and not be held. I admit I coerced him to speak about what was going on with him so I guess I leaned way forward but I was feeling annoyed n unhappy. Anyway he comes from a family of non talkers that hold on and stack up. I come from a background of talkers. I remember many nights of my parents talking probably mostly my mom. When the talking stopped their marriage was over.



  31.  #31cookie on September 20, 2009 at 4:32 pm

    I know rori teaches against this type of engagement but what do u do when there are problems? For me it is the sex. I’m starting to feel like I don’t like sex at all but its not true bc I remember enjoying it. I don’t know how to approach this without leaning forward? I really even don’t know what to say but I know I feel unfulfilled with it. I’ve brought this up on here before but I guess I’m really trying to know what leaning forward is.



  32.  #32tinque on September 20, 2009 at 4:43 pm

    cookie – You don’t really say what has changed sexually for you. Is it you? Is it him? Has the way he is with you changed? ie. Does he rush through where he used to take his time? Does he not consider you when he used to? Does he no longer “take care of you”? Does he approach and/or initiate less?
    What you can say to him which is totally not leaning forward is, “I miss you. I miss feeling close to you (sexually).”
    xxoo



  33.  #33alias girl on September 20, 2009 at 5:37 pm

    tinque i feel nervous about entering into a continual sexual relationship with a man. i like the dynamic of being pursued and “won over”. i even like it when the guy has made me angry and he has to win me over again. but i hate being angry and i hate being purposefully drawn into conflict. with the last guy i was having sex with— he liked to do things on purpose i think because he liked the dynamic of trying to win me over.

    itold him look this can be a game but it can’t be real because i feel bad about it and i feel distrusting with these situations. eventually i ended it because well so many reasons really. but that was a major one. plus i felt him continually doing the same things was a way to avoid intimacy and keep me away.

    what do you think about this? what would be a solution to still have ever increasing intimacy and also what i consider fun dynamics in sex?



  34.  #34Stephanie on September 20, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    i so identify with linda!
    several months ago an 18 month relationship in which i severely overfunctioned & attempted to EARN his love and affection at every opportunity ended. We keep in touch (i know, a big Rori no-no – but i’ve stopped initiating conversations, stopped answering at night, always returning calls during business hours, we’re colleagues)and in a recent conversation i realized how much WORK it was to speak with him, bolstering his ideas & decisions, etc… I’m now happy to be free of all this WORK.
    My neighbor has a beautiful relationship with a man whom she doesn’t live with, it’s such an inspiration to me to see that she does NOTHING for him, & yet he loves her greatly! They are just great companions…
    Another neighbor recently said to me… “I don’t want anyone to need me anymore, I just want to be wanted” & that is truth!



  35.  #35Tracy on September 20, 2009 at 7:26 pm

    I had a great time yesterday….went out with my colleagues from work in spite of feeling blue previously…
    I can’t trace the reason why i am feeling bad…..but i am not going to dwell on it too much…
    I feel that trying to analyze it all doesn’t help much at the moment….so i embrace my sad feelings…
    and meanwhile,i can focus on some interesting readings i stumbled on the internet on how to get into the spirit of living….



  36.  #36Tracy on September 21, 2009 at 12:18 am

    I was listening to Whitney Houston’s new album and it resonates a lot with everything i have been learning over the past few months….I cried when i listened to…”I didn’t know my own strength”………….
    She talks a lot about her own feelings and not giving up and believing in her own strength…totally inspired…
    I feel touched by her stamina and new look and smile….After everything she’s gone through if she can still have faith and be happy..so can i…I felt that that is truly the essence of living….Finding ourselves no matter how long it takes because that’s where true happiness can be found..



  37.  #37Brookelynn Steele on September 21, 2009 at 6:25 am

    I think you give great advice…..I was just on the internet and found your website and told my younger sister which was waiting for her man to really express how he feels to her….and she has tried it and it worked out perfectly fine… Thanks



  38.  #38Aldonza on September 21, 2009 at 7:45 am

    All of this discussion makes me wonder how to raise my daughter so that she doesn’t automatically over-function in relationships like I was taught to do by my mother.



  39.  #39gina on September 21, 2009 at 8:21 am

    I’ve been thinking too too much about my last date with johnny (overfunctioning by thinking about how I overfunctioned, perhapse) but I think I finally “got” the lesson from the “incident.” Rori said that I “skirted” the emotional stuff by focusing on sex, and I finally realized that’s why he responded defensively. In the moment, he was lying on top of me, not being sexual, looking at me, and I wanted to run. I said that I felt like I wanted to run, but that seemed concern him, which made me want to run more. I was feeling myself sink deep into introversion. I know that when I’m so super introverted, I’m not real functional. i haven’t been in that “place” in a long time, and felt anxious when I felt myself going there. So I was thinking hard about how to “be intimate” (but subconsciously trying to avoid intimacy, it seems). I thought hard and came up with some advice from Christian Carter: he recommended creating intimacy by asking a man what he respects in a woman. But that felt scary and I wanted him to grab my boobs, so i asked “what is your favorite body part on a woman?” And he was like seriously?? is that what you’re thinking about right now?? and then he gave me a defensive sort of “lecture” about why that’s a weird question. then he sorta tried to answer the question in a question that brought us back to eachother (he likes my eyes, bla bla bla) and then I was still fumbling around in my brain and came up with the original Christian Carter question: what do you respect in a woman. and johnny was like “that’s really what you’re thinking about? come on!!! he told me i need to be in the moment more. Since then I’ve been thinking and feeling lots of different things – a lot of different feelings have come up depending on how I was looking at the situation. so weird. last night I was fixated on how strange it was that he got defensive – it finally occured to me that he got defensive because he sensed that I was pushing him away. man… I thought when you’re first dating someone that you like, it was supposed to be all amazing, but I feel super challenged. And I don’t think that it’s my relationship with HIM that is difficult, I think it’s ME in a relationship that is new and different. phew. okay, I can do this.



  40.  #40Simply Shannon on September 21, 2009 at 9:08 am

    Gina: I can identify with this statement soooo much…

    “Rori said that I “skirted” the emotional stuff by focusing on sex, and I finally realized that’s why he responded defensively.”

    I know I use sex to avoid true intimacy. I have used it in the past to get a man more interested in me. I feel embarrassed admitting that but it’s true for me. It’s only recently dawned on me that sex may keep a man interested for awhile but it doesn’t make him want to stay forever.

    It is still such a struggle to admit how I’m feeling when that feeling isn’t “good”, ya know? If I could just say the words “this doesn’t feel good” or “I feel embarrassed” or whatever it is I’m feeling… Grrr… I feel frustrated with myself. I have that anxious, shaky arms feelings. I’m having a hard time reprogramming my brain.



  41.  #41Simply Shannon on September 21, 2009 at 9:13 am

    I feel frustrated and sad. I had a lot of fun with A camping this weekend but I still feel distant from him. He did everything this weekend, and I mean, everything. I helped when he asked, but for the most part, I sat back and watched. The thing is that he doesn’t touch me. I am a touchy feely person. I’m not talking about sex. I’m talking about kissing and hugging and just putting your hand on me throughout the day. This non-touching thing literally makes me feel like a friend to him. I don’t know how to say the words above without accussing him of being wrong. I need touches. I feel turned off, unsexual and unwanted when I’m not touched. Is his level of touching just different than mine? Is this me being needy? Is this just me wanting to know I’m loved and desirable? I feel confused again.



  42.  #42gina on September 21, 2009 at 9:26 am

    i feel compassion simply shannon. i can relate to wanting to be touched and feeling afraid to ask for it. I’m curious about what is a good way to deal with those feelings. reading your scenario, I wonder if you could say ” i feel lonely. i miss your touch.” or something like that. but I know that sometimes I feel bad about “needing” to be touched. I wonder if how it would be different if I completely accepted how I feel. If I was free of the heaviness of judging my feelings, maybe I could simply say “I want you to touch me.” I can imagine that it could feel fun to tell him how my hand is missing his. If I was completely free of judging my feelings, I’m imagining how i could have fun expressing myself honestly.



  43.  #43Tracy on September 21, 2009 at 9:43 am

    I feel my mind is much calmer now…..not that i don’t have thoughts running in my head….i still do…but i feel that my thoughts are forming a more organized pattern and i feel glad that i am starting to learn to calm my own mind…how cool is that!!!!
    I often felt that my greatest challenge were my random thoughts….there were times when they were so random and confusing that i felt as though i’d go crazy….
    I guess many would call it letting go….because the challenges are still there…but it feels so good to believe in God/universe to sort everything out for me….
    especially those things that sometimes don’t make sense to the conscious mind.I would try hard to analyze a situation,break it down to its tinest pieces and still have a dead end….It feels so good to just let go and leave be…even for just a few moments…



  44.  #44Mercedes on September 21, 2009 at 9:47 am

    I love this post Rori! Thank you!

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  45.  #45Tracy on September 21, 2009 at 9:55 am

    Gina,
    I feel interested in your dating progress…I am also an introvert and i think that my past sexual relationships were basically me running away from true/genuine intimacy…
    I hoped that the sexual relationship would create something more but sadly it didn’t happen…
    The last 2 guyz i have been circular dating have been interesting….I in many ways feel repulsed by them sexually…I feel that this is so because i feel that they are only interested in sex and not really getting to know me…I want a friendship that grows to something more…i prefer it that way but i keep meeting the opposite…or maybe its just my negative belief that is attracting this…
    These 2 guyz felt suspicious and i feel that they have not been openly honest about their lives….I feel that this results in my not so committed or interested perceptive…
    One last guy felt a bit too needy..i feel so pressured by him..i have tried explaining that to him in feeling messages but the more i say it the more he seems attracted to me…the more i run the more comes after me…it feels so tiring…i am just wondering what the message is here for me…I am i that scared of intimacy…and why so many circular dating guyz i feel repulsed to?….I guess time will tell…and maybe 3 is not such a big majority…



  46.  #46tinque on September 21, 2009 at 10:09 am

    “I feel nervous about entering into a continual sexual relationship with a man.”

    My first response to you is why do you feel nervous about this? Do you fear tedium or boredom will set in after awhile? Do you fear the long termness of it in that you might be hurt? Is it something else? Sit with this for awhile a day or two even if you need it. Feel into it and see if you come up with anything. It could be you’ve not had that before, so it’s simply fear of the unknown.

    This man you talk about here sounds to me like he was playing games with you for whatever reasons. But remember whatever is going on with him is not your business. He has to figure that out for himself or not. You need to take care of YOUR business. And if his behavior is a pattern, and you don’t like it, it’s your job to express that in the ways you know how. Which is what you did. Brava to you.

    “What would be a solution to still have ever increasing intimacy and also what i consider fun dynamics in sex?”

    There isn’t a definitive answer to this question, so I will answer it by how it played out for me. New sex for me meaning the getting to know someone kind of sex (and I mean getting to know on more levels than just sex, for in my mind and heart they go together, and herein lies the development of TRUE intimicay. I have never engaged in casual encounters, nor have I had a fuck buddy.) has always been strange. It feels good, but for me there’s always an element of ill at easeness, self-consciousness. I can’t be me entirely. (for a long time I didn’t even know who me was.)
    With time as I get to know the man, I become more comfortable with him. In my present relationship, I also became more comfortable with myself.
    People come together in order to heal or not. I was challenged to grow in ways I may not have if it wasn’t for this man. (If you’ve ever read my writings, the story is more or less there.)
    As I grew, so did he. We grew together and in the same direction. What blossomed out of this was an ever deepening intimacy which carried over into our sex life. I became involved with tantra and sexual healing as well which only added to the fun.
    Sex over time with the same man DOES NOT get boring. That is not with someone you deeply love and care about. People are boring, not the sex. It can take a little imagination sometimes, but still, when you love and are in love, it just feels great always. Some orgasms are more intense than others; once in awhile they are not there at all, yet it all still feels good and it’s still way fun. That’s just the way it is.
    When sex is with the right man, it’s fun. That’s it.
    I hope this helps. Please feel free to ask me anything anytime.
    xxoo



  47.  #47Nikita on September 21, 2009 at 11:36 am

    Hi Alias Girl,

    I’m feeling really overfunctionly at the moment….so

    I’m dedicating a poem by Rumi to you….I felt your post tickling my brain. I felt so sympatico?…..can I say that???? Not sure, but it feels right.

    P.S. Thx Doc. for reminding me:)

    *******~

    You’ve so distracted me,
    your absence fans my love.
    Don’t ask how.

    Then you come near.
    “Do not. . .” I say, and
    “Do not. . . ,” you answer.

    Don’t ask why
    this delights me.

    nikita xx



  48.  #48alias girl on September 21, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    thank you tinque. i am familiar with some elements of your story and i feel encouraged that you managed to stick it out and feel all your big feelings and reactions to what was initially a very painful and triggering situation for you. and now have come to a good place with your guy. also how you both managed to grow and like you said the growing you did brought you closer together. i feel good to know this. i feel inspired. 🙂

    thank you for responding to me. i feel appreciative.

    in regards to sex with a long term partner, maybe i feel nervous HE will lose interest. also I feel nervous i will feel pressured to have sex whenever he wants. i feel nervous sex will just become expected and i’ll get all in my head about it. i feel nervous that if the dynamic of cat and mouse or him pursuing me is lost i will feel eh. (or am i projecting again and worrying if HE will feel this?)

    i like excitement. i want healthy and exciting.

    also i fear and sometimes when i am vulnerable i cry. i feel like an idiot. when i say something that is the truth sometimes i cry. i feel nervous of getting too close and crying during or after sex. or at all really. not really but well maybe.

    and yes i fear getting all the way in and committed to someone. but i feel willing to be with those fears because i want to be all the way in and committed. slowly. ugh not all in one day.

    and yes, tinque, a lot if it is fear of the unknown. i don’t really have much long term relationship experience under my belt. i fear what will be expected of me. i actually feel repulsed by other people’s expectation’s of me. i like to negotiate and agree on things. i feel good to live up to my agreements. but i feel angry when people unspokenly expect things from me.

    what you said about “people are boring, not the sex.” yes yes. i feel that.i get that. i mean everything is what you make it. YES! people are boring, not the sex!!!!!! yes this is very helpful and eases my worries quite a bit. oh yae. yes i am all up in my head in fears but i am acting as if i am not steering the ship or am some sort of passive non participant to how things become or develop or work out. yes!

    yes. i am actually IN the relationship. there are two of us deciding things and agreeing on things and i am not just there “hoping” i don’t do the wrong thing that will make him leave or “hoping” i can do everything that pleases him so he doesn’t leave. NO! I AM A GODDESS AND HE IS A KING and we decide things together and work together. seems obvious now.

    thanks tinque!!!!!!!!!!!



  49.  #49alias girl on September 21, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    thank you nikita. i Love rumi. i feel touched with your gesture of dedicating one of his poems to me. i felt teary when i read that. i’m a girl so it didn’t feel like overfunctioning it me. it felt like someone just caressed my heart and said, “you are loved.” so thank you. xoxo <3



  50.  #50la la land on September 21, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    hi rory
    i hope you are better

    this household issue is a big one for me

    im taking care of the kids and the house when actually i never chose this.

    im lousy at cleaning and organizing and he is great at it, but since he is the earner and much less here, he feels i should do it and get very disappointed when i dont do it well.

    i always say to myself the success in my work is my salvation,i work at home and i hope to achieve meaningful financial income soon so this household fiasco wont be on my name…



  51.  #51tinque on September 21, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    alias girl – Okay if he loses interest, well…to hell with him. He wasn’t worthy of your gorgeousness or goddessness. He didn’t recognize what a prize he has in you. His loss. Someone who loses interest has TOO many issues, but I REALLY feel you have grown to a place that you will not attract such a person any more.
    I apologize, but I don’t remember your age. I think you are early forties. Yes? If you choose to be with someone around your age, then the constant yearning for sex as in a man in his twenties won’t be there. Aren’t you kinda dating such a man though? But still the pressure “shouldn’t (I hate that word) be there. If he’s any kind of man the pressure won’t be there.
    I can only speak for me and being with the man I’m with has added to this, but I became VERY horny in my forties, and it has not abated, but much of this is attributed to my openings. (LOL) But in all ways. So I tend to want it more than he though really were about the same in that regard.
    As for the crying. This is SO beautiful. It’s only happened to me a handful of times. It’s BEAUTIFUL and very special and don’t ever feel ashamed or embarrassed about it. What it means is that you are so filled with emotion that the tears spill out (your emotions spill out). I love it, and if a man can’t handle it, see above. (to hell with him) I can’t imagine a real man wouldn’t love it.
    As for expectations. They ARE NOT useful and potentially destructive from either partner. If you have no expectations, then you can ALWAYS be surprised.
    xxoo



  52.  #52Rori Raye on September 21, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    Tracy – fabulous. Look at what’s happening…you go away, they come to you. Now – you don’t know what to do with this…so THAT’s the message here, that’s the lesson. You somehow don’t feel that you have the diva right to CHOOSE! You feel like the MEN have control, and they DON’T — YOU do. As you slowly get to accept your power, you’ll learn to use it. Your feeling messages will start to be more truthful and have more “don’t want’s” in them. Just keep doing what you’re doing and working through EXPERIENCING and EXPERIMENTING with all this. Love, Rori



  53.  #53Rori Raye on September 21, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    Shannon – hey, please don’t beat yourself up, or I’ll have to go back to beating myself up, too! I used to do the same thing with sex. As I worked my way out of that, now, from here, looking back…the truth is…I LOVED and enjoyed the sex. I just needed to put a context, a reason to it that wasn’t there…and that, truly…I didn’t need. I was way more in control of things than I thought. So are you. Love, Rori



  54.  #54Vicki Kerns on September 21, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    Overfunctioning? That has pretty much been my middle name in every “relationship” (if you want to call it that) that I’ve been in, especially the current *imaginary* relationship. I am working daily with Rori’s tools to create a better me. Some days it’s easier than others. Some days I feel like, “I can do this, I can turn things around.” And other days, I feel like, “I just need to end this “friendship” with this man and move forward. I am completely in love with this man and totally addicted to him. Due to a big lack of self-esteem & self-love most of my adult life, 98% of my relationships and the men I’ve dated have been bad for me & I’ve done just about every wrong thing that Rori describes. And because I was tired of things always working out badly, I went celibate 11 years ago. In 2005, a guy I’ve had a crush on for years started coming around every weekend (our 7-weekend run with our local Ren Fest), flirting like crazy, bringing me little gifts, going out to dinner with us every night, etc. I felt like a high-school girl, giggling & happier than I’d been in years. Of course, I ultimately made the mistake of letting him know I was interested & zoom, exit stage right, he pulled away. I remember the phone call, “I’m flattered, but I just can’t date right now…kids still at home…maybe at some point in the future…. So I still cared but cooled it. He’d call occasionally but that was it. In 2006, I learned he was dating an old friend of his. Hmm, what happened to the “I can’t date right now?” So that was like a stake to the heart. And just as I predicted, this woman treated him like crap, got involved with another man, strung this guy along, and eventually dumped him (my guy). He was still hanging in there in 2007 and at the end of the festival season I asked him outright, “Do you love her?” And his answer was “yes.” I decided it was time for me to move on. One month later, my beloved mother died. This guy stopped by one evening when I was alone, I knew it was him without going to the door, which I didn’t. I decided to move to another state & try to renew my life and before I left I wrote this man a very long letter saying that I didn’t let him in because I had just lost too much and that I could not be his friend right now, maybe at some point in the future. Long story short, I ran into him last fall, he told me how much he missed me, we got reacquainted. He started calling me 2-3 times a week with sometimes 3-hour conversations. I had already decided to move back to my old town (and yes, he put the icing on the cake). I started making trips back every weekend to look for a house & a job (and yes, to see him). Oh God, it was so wonderful for 2 months. We went out to dinner, we talked, he literally opened up his life and let me in (he’s a very private person), we went antiquing, he took me to fun places he thought I’d like, and we’d end up at his house watching movies until late (oh, if I’d only had Rori’s tools back then). Little by little, things started to get romantic and one night he held my hand & held me in his arms. He took me to his mom’s house for Xmas Eve dinner & to be with his kids. He bought me all kind of wonderful things for Xmas. Made me feel so special and wonderful and told me so. Then, the day after Xmas my world came crumbling down. We went from just holding hands the weekend before to jumping on each other like a couple of horny teenagers. He stops before we did anything and said, “I know how you feel about me and I don’t want to take advantage of you.” Oh yes, a red flag raised, but my inner voice said, “Think about that one later, your dream is about to come true.” And after 11 years of celibacy and not enjoying sex, I had the most incredible night of my entire adult life. He was incredible and the most giving and attentive man I’ve ever been with. The next evening, we had tickets for a concert and when he came to the hotel door, I knew something was up. We had a nice evening but he dropped me at the hotel door with an “I’m really tired so I’m going to call it an early evening.” Oh no, not again, not after all these years. Not him! After I got back home, I called him (which is hard for me to do) & we talked about it. Of course, I get the “I can’t date right now because I want to work with my son to keep him on the right path (he’s 20 now, by the way), it wasn’t a one-night stand, yada yada.” And, “I think we can have something really special down the road.” Oh Lord, where have I heard that before. But I swallow it hook, line and sinker. So I move back home, we maintain a friendship, but in Feb. we initiated “friends with benefits” (another mistake). A tough one for me because 1) I didn’t want to lose the opportunity to be held, touched, loved, and 2) the sex was the best I’ve ever had and was finally fulfilling. Except for one thing: we would only do it about once a month or longer. Wow, I thought men had more of a libido than that, or my theory is that he figured if he did it more than that it would constitute a (oh heavens no) relationship. Anyway, Memorial Day was the last time we were together. He has continued to call, come over on occasion, take me out to dinner, you know, A Friend. No explanation why. I’m also theorizing that he started feeling guilty because he wasn’t giving me what he knew I really need. Now, he may sound like a schmuck, and he is quite often, but deep down he is basically one of the good ones. At times, he’s been very sweet and attentive and giving to me. But it’s gotten fewer & farther between. There isn’t another woman, although I think he still harbors feelings for his ex, who recently re-married. His ex-wife screwed around on him & I think he tends to go more for women who will treat him like crap, whereas I wouldn’t. But I’m at a point where I just can’t be his friend anymore. I love him with all my heart, we make each other laugh, we have all the same interests, and we just generally enjoy each other’s company. My niece said we act like an old married couple. But it’s become way too difficult to be just his friend because of my love for him. Now I recently got the “Reconnect Your Relationship” series, but should I try to do that or should I just end the friendship/relationship? Either way, I have to put myself first, nurture & learn to love myself, do what is best for me, and keep working on my own happiness. I’m working on my “I have to end this friendship” speech & am becoming more convinced that this is the way to go. Thanks for listening.



  55.  #55Rori Raye on September 21, 2009 at 4:05 pm

    Aldonza – brilliant question. Raising daughters is a switching hats trick. You have to MODEL “girl” behavior for her when you’re with a man, and yet, you have to be the “boy” with her and encourage her to be a “girl” and express her feelings in your safe, boy energy. Quite a life’s work, I’m in the middle of it myself now for 20 years. Love, Rori



  56.  #56tinque on September 21, 2009 at 4:24 pm

    “deep down he is basically one of the good ones”
    I have to share this because I think it’s priceless.
    The reference is to the above, yet I’m not singling out the last writer/poster, for SO many of us say or have said this.
    This is a gift from K –
    “If you have to dig that deep you should start a mining company.”
    xxoo



  57.  #57alias girl on September 21, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    mm thank you tinque. i feel so happy like a kid when people notice how much i’ve grown!!! yes i feel sure that i will end up with a good good man and am just looking to the message with everyone that shows up.

    yes i went on one date last week with a 21 year old but i am still unsure how i feel about moving any of that along and have not been taking his calls. i feel bad about it now. i feel like he doesn’t have much to Give me. and if a man gave me his heart purely and his devotion purely then that would be different and i would re evalute all the other stuff. but i do not feel that purity in this man’s intentions. i mean i am psychic but not to the extent that i can fully know his intentions with me. but i feel like he is in Take mode and i feel turned off.

    mmm i actually felt good about how he always wanted to kiss me and touch me and take my hand. but I would not want someone that wanted sex more than me or rather i wouldn’t want to feel like he would get frustrated and go somewhere else or that he was frustrated with me personally on the issue. but i don’t actually know what my true sex drive would be with a person. hehe maybe i would match up with a 21 year old. 🙂 or not. i have no idea. i guess it would depend on both of us.

    aw i feel reassured about the crying thing. i feel so out of place when it happens. i guess i judge myself based on voices from my past. i love my judgements. i love those voices. i love my sensitivity to life and love.

    and i love sex and thank you for bringing the best man in the world to me so we can have a lot of sex!!!!



  58.  #58tinque on September 21, 2009 at 4:34 pm

    It happened for me. It can happen for you. My man and I found each other (actually we were reunited via a blind date after ten years), and he is the best man for me, and we have lots of sex, lots of awesome, yummy sex.
    In my opinion though, and it’s just my opinion, 21 is TOO young. But if it’s in fun and for fun only, have fun.
    xxoo to you alias girl



  59.  #59alias girl on September 21, 2009 at 4:47 pm

    aw i understand 21 is too young for YOU!! 🙂

    i feel open to any man between the ages of (well my online profile used to say 22 but I guess the cut off is 21)

    i feel open to any man between the ages of 21 and 79. for real. i feel open to any ethnicity though i prefer a certain ethnicity. (call it racism call it a fetish whatever)

    but thank you for your support tinque. in the past i would hope but be afraid my biggest most important dreams might never come true. now they feel like certanties. 🙂 i feel very appreciative of your loving and kind support.



  60.  #60tinque on September 21, 2009 at 4:52 pm

    touche – it is too young for ME. And you’re welcome. Anytime.
    xxoo



  61.  #61la la land on September 21, 2009 at 4:52 pm

    im staying with the household issue, because i feel maybe i can see it in a new light now.

    this frustration of his, is the fear that my rock is not a solid one to crash on? like we talked with the health issue?

    or maybe im doing ok, not great but ok considering [we do have a large family] and all this stress around this subject is coming from something else?

    i did noticed that since im working the tools he is much more active himself around the house, without anyone saying anything,

    maybe when i leaned forward it made him feel frustrated and the household complains ware just a way to get back at me?

    this is kind of embarrassing, im so feminist and liberal etc and this issues sounds like a third world tv doc…



  62.  #62la la land on September 21, 2009 at 4:58 pm

    just a word about the raising girls issues,

    i made it a rule lately that i dont want to be spoken not nice to, next to the girls. i feel its pure damage. i think my big one [she dosent say anything but ] doesnt look me in the eyes after we fight.

    this is very bad, right? but i mean hiding and pretending is also bad, how do you go through a major crises in front of your kids?



  63.  #63alias girl on September 21, 2009 at 5:04 pm

    vicki kerns i feel happy you are here and thank you for sharing and opening up.

    when i follow my feelings decisions become easier fro me because i am sort of following what feels good. and moving or turning away from what feels bad.

    i don’t know what the best decision for you is in your current situation but i know if you follow your feelings you will being to have more clarity about what you truly want and what is and isn’t serving you in your life.

    rori says we will eventually, naturally lose interest in certain kinds of men or situations that once had a negative hold on us. this has been true for me. i still think about my exes but feel so clearly how they are *imaginary*. these men do not think about me. they are not sending their energy towards me or dreaming of ways to please me. we are not in a relationship.

    they are fallbacks for my mind when i feel impatient about where is he? where is my guy? and i think about an ex and shape him like playdoh into my ideal man and if only he could cooperate and be my playdoh mold then we could live happily ever after. but the truth is i am not The Girl for these men.

    have you ever seen a man single focussed on a goal? seriously. bridges get made, skyscrapers go up, lions get killed.

    i will KNOW when a man has chosen me to be his Goddess.

    so far i’ve got a lot of man who will Take what I have and like what they experience but i feel like the oars are just sitting in the boat and the men keep looking at me and then looking the oars and can’t figure out why the boat isn’t moving.

    don’t look at me. but hey don’t be surprised when your still sitting in your still-as-ice boat and you see me floating happy along in some other man’s boat
    who has beautiful drops of sweat glistening from his forehead as he rows us with joy and determination and pride.



  64.  #64Jennifer on September 21, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    Hello All,

    My heart just broke for Vicki Kerns… the roller coaster is no fun, and I myself have been on it way to long.

    Alias… I about spit pop through my nose laughing at your very first comment on this blog about running to the computer to google how to do something for a man to make him better at it. That is EXACTLY the kind of overfunctioning that I do…hmm.. I mean.. did. ha ha

    I am a bit frustrated with myself and my guy to be honest… I am… WAS.. an extreme over functioner, and I stopped.. cold turkey. The result? Attention galore!! I started to be taken out to dinner, bought gifts, evenings arranged for my pleasure, massaged, held… all the stuff that I always wanted and thought “doing” would get me. I so LOVE being the GIRL!! I just love “BEING”!
    But.. something seriously backwards happened this last week. I think it is because I went from letting him only come over once a week to visit with me, to a three day weekend where we hung out all 3 days. Next thing I know, he comes over to my house and he’s on his iphone facebooking for hours, while I am sitting there watching the movie we are suppose to be watching together… not paying any attention to me at all. Or he says he’s going to come over at 6 and then at 7 texts me and says, that he’ll be over at 9, and I text him back and say just stay home, and he gets all upset and mad, and makes his way over anyway. It gets worse… this is a good one. He made a big deal about me not making plans on Sunday, “to clear my schdule because he has something special planned for me”… that it was a secret and that all he was going to tell me was that he was taking me out to dinner (would not tell me where, but I had a pretty good guess it was the best restuarant in town) and that he was going to take me shopping (but he once again wasn’t going to tell me where, but I think it was Pier One which is my favoritest shop ever).. I was really excited about this, because he had done something like this before a few weeks ago, and we had a wonderful time…ANYWAY.. he had planned to mow my lawn for me that Sunday morning, and it was a rainy day so he did not come over at the promsied time, I DID NOT CALL or text him…hours later he texted me that after his sister stopped by the house he would be over. I simply texted back Okay. HOURS go by… hours of me sitting ready at home all dolled up and no where to go, and not knowing I am not going anywhere. Finally, I could not stand it anymore, and I texted him. He said he was over at a family function, and that he had totally spaced it. WOW…. the next day he came over to the house.. and gave me a half apology, and I told him I felt forgotten. It didn’t seem to phase him, and he went back to his facebooking. Don’t mean to drag this on, but basically.. .this man has gone cold on me!
    So, he made plans to go out of town to a College Football game with his best friend this last weekend, and then go see family he’s never met before. I saw him right before he left, and I said.. Have a good time! He just said thanks, and walked away. No hug.. no I’ll call you, no I’ll text you pictures… It was hard, but I did not text him, or call him this whole weekend, and the sad thing is… he did not either. Not a peep from him.. but he had time to log onto his facebook to post pictures! Anyway… we work together and I saw him this morning, and he threw a College Key Ring on my desk, and said here. He apparently got me a souvenier.
    I feel so let down… I feel so resentful for the crumbs that he gives me… and I of course, turn into myself… what did I do wrong that he has done a complete 360 on his attitude? Did I let him back in too soon? Should I of kept the wall up longer? And now that I have learned that I LOVE being the girl…. and I really thought he liked being the “man” because that is what he was always saying was that he enjoys the “chase” and that I do too much for him… I DON’T WANT to go back to being the “boy”… I DON’T!!! I DON’T!! I DON’T!!! Oh.. it makes me SO angry just thinking about going back to being the “boy” and rowing the oars. SO.. I just WON’T go back to being the “boy”, the over functioner, the if I don’t do it, it won’t get done girl, the Row Row Row your boat girl… I WON’T!!!

    Wow.. I guess I needed to get that off my chest! ha ha
    But this is my lastest worry… I know you are going to think why am I even worrying over a jerk like him.. but he is NEVER like this.. if he had been I would of said good-bye a long time ago. I know what is going to happen next… he is going to want to tell me ALL about his trip, about meeting his brother for the first time… how much fun he had at the game with his best friend that he hardly ever gets to see… and frankly… I don’t feel like it. I feel that would be leaning forward… almost rewarding him for his bad behavior… but I don’t want to hurt him either…. you never want to hurt someone to care about… any suggestions?



  65.  #65Simply Shannon on September 21, 2009 at 6:38 pm

    Alias Girl – your last post was sheer genius. I LOVED reading it.

    have you ever seen a man single focussed on a goal? seriously. bridges get made, skyscrapers go up, lions get killed. – LOVE it.

    i feel like the oars are just sitting in the boat and the men keep looking at me and then looking the oars and can’t figure out why the boat isn’t moving. – Seriously AMEN sista!

    Just had to say that. I feel inspired by all of the posts. I’m feeling down today and trying to get out of this funk so thank you!! Shannon



  66.  #66alias girl on September 21, 2009 at 9:05 pm

    haha thank you simply shannon. i feel my head swelling and my chest puffing. i feel like putting out an alert that i have the potential for pure genius comments! although i’ve read a similar boat analogy on here before i think i just expanded it a bit. but i have to credit where credit is due. the skyscraper-lion bit is mine though.

    jennifer if i were you i might try and lean back and put My focus on ME and circular date. I would Definitely be considering circular dating if i were in that situation you described. but only you can know what’s right for you.

    if i were the guy in a situation like that i might think it doesn’t matter how i act because either way the girl still sticks around and is always “nice” so why not just do what is convenient for me when it’s convenient for me and not really consider this girl much because she doesn’t seem to require that much to keep her in.



  67.  #67alias girl on September 21, 2009 at 9:15 pm

    i talked to my 21 year old suitor tonight. he said just let me know— if you want– just say ‘no’ and i’ll stop calling.

    i said well if it’s that easy then ok, “no.”

    he repeated me, “no?”

    i said “if it’s that easy.” then i said, “i want a man who is going to protect me and provide for me and is really into me. i don’t want a man who lies and plays jokes on me and i feel bad.”

    he said “what if i say i’ll never do it again.”

    i said, “well that feels better. it feels better than just bleh sorry and then that’s the end of it.”

    He said “ok well then do you accept me?”

    I said “yes.” then i said “i like you.”

    he said, “you like me?”

    i said “yes.”

    he said “yeah but not as much as i like you.”

    i said “in the beginning it was the same. until that thing happened.”

    he said “that’s true.”



  68.  #68Daria on September 21, 2009 at 9:33 pm

    well i have been feeling triggered beyond triggered, I feel angry I guess.

    I feel resentful of feeling judged I feel sooo triggered I guess a lot of past trauma is triggered for me

    I feel like i am getting closer to my life purpose which before felt totally overwhelming and so hopeless that I would not even be able to think about it but now is feeling less overwhelming in that i AM able to think about it but I still fill with RAGE and feel unable to communicate clearly and feel confused and powerless and abandoned and unheard and desperate

    I feel interested that I got triggered so hard I did not want to check the blog I didn’t even see it coming. I have been laying awake at night feeling triggered which is very interesting to me

    I feel interested in finding strength to speak my truth and feelings

    I feel interested in the possiblity of feeling understood and powerful

    I want to heal more because that seems to have healed a lot of shame and fear already for me

    i’m still feeling really angry though



  69.  #69Daria on September 21, 2009 at 9:51 pm

    meanwhile I am feeling judgemental

    I feel like I am comparing myself to others

    I feel good doing this but also bad



  70.  #70Erika on September 21, 2009 at 10:08 pm

    Well, here’s a feelings experience.

    I am feeling blown away by my experience over the past week.

    I could FEEL when the guys banned me from their forum (and sure enough I was right)

    I could FEEL when they made the decision to let me back on.

    And beyond that I could feel their deliberations about me while they were deliberating.

    This is what I mean about other people’s intentions – I can feel them at a conscious level.



  71.  #71Daria on September 21, 2009 at 10:11 pm

    I feel good that the men in my rotation are calling me. I have been feeling very easily leaned back with men and naturally walking lean back and more confident talking to people.

    My healing was fast and permanent, it was the trauma healing guy from back fix bodywork

    now men are all noticing me all over the place and I’m feeling so easy about it. I also feel all in touch with nature even around my house which felt too lonely and concrety before

    I feel like walking around. I don’t feel like smoking. Mostly because I don’t feel a need for companionship. I don’t feel lonely anymore. My parents have been nice to me. My healing seems to have triggered them to be more real, although there is more healing for me coming up and thus for them too.

    I don’t feel so terrified around their energy anymore although I still do pick up their energy easily and have a hard time sometime not feeling overwhelmed with it.

    I feel very goddessy.

    I am having a much easier time telling men I don’t want to plan dates and i feel turned off having to drive and don’t want to do it. They are not turning away. I feel comfortable being quiet and letting them talk on the phone. They are telling me they want to marry me lol.

    This one man in particular I feel interested in the stuff he says, I feel very understood by him. I do feel annoyed that 2 times I told stories he somehow wasn’t listening, once because he had to do something and once because he fell asleep. I feel resentful.

    The other guy I feel uncomfortable a little with. I feel a little unsafe. He did come see me. He looked a little “scruffy” and I felt a kinda turned off a little, but maybe I felt turned off because he wanted me to come see him. this turns me off now fast i notice. I told him i feel skeptical but am willing to let him get to know me. he said thats cool. he has been calling and texting me a lot, as has the other man.

    the third man sings and sent me beautiful songs, but now he wanted me to visit him on lunch break (I feel my eyebrows rising typing this), and then wanted me to send more pictures… he said he wants to see more than half my face. I haven’t responded because i feel annoyed. he said i guess that’s a no. That feels even more annoying so i don’t want to respond to that either.

    other men have called or texted but I have not been returning calls without messages. (except once to the second man i mentiooned, he was very concerned about me feeling sad and he called twice or 3 times in a row and i was in the other room, so i called him back. I let him know that i usally don’t return calls without a message, i mostly check my messages to respond)

    it feels really easy to meet men now as I’ve said I’m feeling very lean back and confident and approachable and clerks and random people are just always similng at me and wanting to chat with me

    I’ve also started to glow

    a man in front of whole foods recommended me to a new and less expensive acupuncturist which is what i was looking for and he is an amazing healer and yay I got my period on time after going to him and i will keep going to him. I asked for a discount, got a small one, felt awful and later told him i would feel happy to pay a lesser price or else full price because did not feel comfortable with this one. he thought about it and said yes. even at old price it was equal to my other acupuncturist but also included qi gong massage.

    anyway stuff is looking up

    i have not been eating a lot at all. i used to overeat.
    i lost weight, but do not look bad (i don’t usually like to lose weight) my tummy has decreased since acupuncture and massage because this is the first doctor that realized my intestines were weak and so the one treatment i had already has reduced my perpetual bloatedness and stomach weakness i’ve felt

    I also found sashimi which i love on discount at a local japanese store. also per trauma release guy’s recommendations i’ve been eating seaweed and not only did i find (some)_ iliked but it makes me feel all good and happy

    i haven’t had new clients for business but spoke about it and put fliers up at whole foods
    also a random chatting man taught me how to post several ads at once on craigslist so i’ll do that

    also i’m basically ready at any time to start (and also finish) my curriculum for a four day class for SAT’s i want to create and actually ask libraries and schools to conduct it there. that i figure will be awesome advertiising for my business, a free class, plus i am not so much worryin gabout pricing my sesssions, ive decided to be open about it

    i also don’t feel terrified to ask libraries and schools to conduct my class

    i’m also going to do some vocab and take the GRE since I have the GMAT done, and they are almsot the same but GRE has more vocab. Then will do LSAT which i’m aleready prepping for a little bit

    i feel very cool to just do stuff i want and not feel the pervasive loneliness anymore, or want to go and be with people. i feel all happy and comfortable hearing people talking, not left out and grieving inside

    total healing.

    i feel annoyed reading about people saying about not being able to have total scarless healing, I believe i am experiencing some pretty amazing ‘overnight’ healing of lifelong issues. anyways as per loa I believe we can have what we believe we can have and I want to believe i can have everything I want. lol

    say that 3 times fast

    i believe I can have what I believe i can have and I want to believe i can have everything i want

    i believe i can have what i believe i can have and I BELIEVE i can have everything i want

    I believe i can have everything i want

    lol
    nice



  72.  #72Daria on September 21, 2009 at 10:13 pm

    dude
    Erika

    I can SO feel other people’s feelings
    now I am clearly able to tell that and be conscious of it

    like when i feel a man’s energy, or feel something “funny” it turns out to be something he’s thinking or feeling too

    same with parents, people

    i can also “see” what they’re thinking, but sometimes i think im thinking it until i realize it doesn’t correspond with my usual

    its like i get the feeling and also images along with it

    super psychic

    rocks too



  73.  #73Daria on September 21, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    I feel SOOO GLAD they let you back in there. I was reading the EFT thread in there and felt SHOCKED to hear that they banned u, I’m feeling super glad they re decided that because people on that thread would have been mentioning you and everyone would have been like “who??” lol

    so hopefully they put your posts back also



  74.  #74Tina on September 21, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    Alias girl

    That conversation has an authentic feel to it. Jokes are jokes but at your expense it doesnt feel funny.

    Recently all my old dating contacts have been making contact with me again. I’m not sure how I feel about it. One guy I dated messaged me and asked me a question, I responded. He asked me how I was? I said I feel great! I wasnt sure if I was supposed to ask him in return lol. He stopped messaging me lol after that. Four dates I’ve had have messaged me mostly with just a Hi and I’ll say hi and thats it. I’m sure somewhere in the tools or on this blog it was mentioned about investing less of my energy. Normally I would have said hi how are you back oh yeah uh huh blah blah blah. All about him you know…

    I feel excited about my date 3000 miles away, my ticket is settled. I feel really excited about the event , not sure if I feel more excited about that than the actual date himself. We’ve dtalked on the phone everyday since. We discussed sex , he said well its our first date so yeah. Were not sleeping in the same room, that is cool too. Were going to meet his mom too. It’s a five day first date so yeah.



  75.  #75Daria on September 21, 2009 at 10:15 pm

    I feel a little irked about the other people’s intentions comment…

    i feel scared saying something

    grrr scaredness grrrr



  76.  #76Erika on September 21, 2009 at 10:16 pm

    “There are no private thoughts.”



  77.  #77Daria on September 21, 2009 at 10:16 pm

    TINA I WANT A TRAVELING DATE!!! YAY!! AWESOME!!!



  78.  #78Daria on September 21, 2009 at 10:18 pm

    I alwasy thought Erica was a cool name. HAs a cool sound with it (even with a k).

    this girl erica i went to middle school with, she was pretty and petite and i didnt really feel good with her, i felt kinda left out and looked down upon, but that was a lot of my middle school experience, … but anyway the name is cool

    it sounds like a strong queen

    Daria sounds like taht to me too hehe

    maybe its Rrr sound lol



  79.  #79Erika on September 21, 2009 at 10:22 pm

    Daria,

    What feels irking to you?

    I’ve been really struggling to find a “feeling message” way to say what I’m trying to say.

    “There are no private thoughts.”

    If we think judgmental thoughts of others, they can feel it. Many people feel it unconsciously though, so they don’t realize what’s going on, and they just react.

    Then they do things that don’t feel good to us, and really they are just reacting to the vibes we are sending out.

    I want to be able to say that without triggering everyone.

    I want to be able to express what I’ve learned, that often the only way for the two people involved to break out of that icky feeling pattern is to communicate with each other. To reveal the judgmental thoughts and feelings and let it all be vented. To see that they are not each other’s enemy but really just two human beings with the same basic feelings and needs. This is what happens in good mediations.

    And I don’t know any way to say that in pure feeling messages, so I feel frustrated, curious, perturbed.



  80.  #80Erika on September 21, 2009 at 10:26 pm

    I feel limited by feeling messages. I love them, find them very helpful and liberating, but I don’t see any way to teach what I was put on this planet to teach if I am bound arms and legs to feeling messages …



  81.  #81gina on September 21, 2009 at 10:36 pm

    I personally find it irking Erika cause you seem to be making reference to the conflict with alias girl, and it feels like an excuse for the behavior that I didn’t like. I agree with you that thoughts are real and exist in their own dimension, and if a person is conscious enough, they can become aware of other people’s thoughts – like Rori was saying she could “hear” her husband telling her to sit.
    Whats’ frustrating is to hear you continuing to justify your “provocation”, when it isn’t even the provocation that was so triggering – it was the tone and the language you used. I heard judgment and opinions rather than feeling messages and I felt bad reading your words. I feel frustrated that you continue to defend that behavior.



  82.  #82gina on September 21, 2009 at 10:38 pm

    Erika – I am here to learn from all the women on the forum, but I am not here to be “taught” by you. Ugh. I feel judgmental and angry again.



  83.  #83Daria on September 21, 2009 at 10:44 pm

    Erika feeling messages may seem like a “bind” at first, until we get used to them… same as say if we were learning a different language (we are)… once we get “fluent” with them… wow… are they ever magical, liberating, and healing

    more so than any other verbal communication i’ve encountered



  84.  #84alias girl on September 22, 2009 at 12:33 am

    what a radical concept. i just reread this post. what if i pull back to zero. what if i let the man give what he wants to give. what if i just let him flounder and figure this relationship stuff out on his own?

    what if my doing for him looks like trying to “fix” him. hmm i would feel bad if a man were constantly intruding and trying to fix my life for me.i would feel like i was coming up short like rori says.

    what if — i don’t pick men i feel i need to fix. what if i pick a man i am happy with right in the now.

    tina i feel very excited about your first date. i feel a big adventure. i feel inspired by your courage and daring and adventurous spirit. i feel very excited.



  85.  #85gina on September 22, 2009 at 12:45 am

    I like what Rori said to SS:

    “As I worked my way out of that, now, from here, looking back…the truth is…I LOVED and enjoyed the sex. I just needed to put a context, a reason to it that wasn’t there…and that, truly…I didn’t need. I was way more in control of things than I thought. So are you.”

    I think Rori is saying a whole lot with a few words here, and I’m sure I don’t grasp the entirety. But what’s resonating with me is that, when I think about some men that I was physically involved with, who I didn’t have a real “relationship” with, I remember being hooked on the idea that it could “work out.” Now I definitely see that it wasn’t meant to be – the timing, compatibility, logistics, unwillingness to be intimate (if it wasn’t him, it was me) – and I knew it at the time, but I wanted to have an experience. And then the experience felt so good, and I felt some deep connection with this other person, and a deeper somewhat buried desire for the whole shebang, so I made up a whole romantic story about how this experience was the whole shebang. and it wasn’t. and part of me knew it, but couldn’t see where I was headed, so i just focused on what was right there. and part of me didn’t even completely want it to work cause I knew it wasn’t right, and I knew I wasn’t happy enough with myself to partner up with somebody.

    Right now I feel on the cusp of some sort of something that feels like “my life” in a more recognizable way than I’ve been living it over the last couple of years, if that makes any sense. Like I was in a forest, and now I’m approaching a clearing . It’s all pretty clear in my head what to do and how to do it, and now I’ve got to execute. It feels good to think back to the times when I thought I was lost, and realize that I was just making my way through a tough spot.



  86.  #86alias girl on September 22, 2009 at 1:32 am

    i actually do not feel clear on what rori is saying to simply shannon. ?

    i feel in the dark. i feel okay about it but a little dense.



  87.  #87Vicki Kerns on September 22, 2009 at 4:22 am

    Tinque, I love the “if you have to dig that deep, why not start a mining company.” That says a whole lot in a few words. And Jennifer, my heart aches for you. The whole hot, cold, hot, cold scenario is so painful. Blowing you off several times, then brings you a little souveneir and drops on your desk! Talk about oars. Sometimes you just want to pick one up, not to row, but to whack them over the head with it. Men really can be selfish creatures and when they’re called on it, they’re like, “What? What did I do?” Keep working with Rori’s tools and focus on yourself. And even though you said he is “never like this.” If he did it, he has the potential to do it again, especially if he’s “allowed” to by you. Go back over your tools and draw on your inner strength because you deserve so much more time, attention, and love than this man is showing you! So do I. The most difficult part for me is that I’ve never really been in love before and I do love this man. But love isn’t supposed to hurt. Everyone goes through things, but it’s not supposed to be like this. My niece is helping me catch myself doing my old habits. Last weekend, we’re sitting behind our stage between our shows (we do a stage show called MentalPause: Hot Flash Wenches), and “my guy” (for lack of a better term…because I really don’t want to call him “old assclown”) comes backstage in the morning because he needs help tying his sleeve. He stays and talks awhile. “Oh, I meant to call you this week but I got really busy, son’s car broke down (he’s 20, let him figure it out), blady, blady. He comes by again later, and in the afternoon he stopped by to show off his new leather belt he had made. Now, every time he had stopped by, I had consciously leaned back in my chair, worked on not talking and letting him talk. But when he left, my niece said, “Wow, he was back here preening like a peacock with his new belt and you fell all over yourself complimenting him, oohing and aahing. He comes around for an ego feed and you always give it to him.” Wo, I didn’t even see that one. I’m always stroking his ego, “You’re a good father.” “She (old girlfriend) really hurt you and you’re a good man.” “Wow, what a beautiful belt” on and on and on. Hey, where are MY ego strokes??? Where are MY compliments??? OK, another lesson learned!!! Next time, it will be a “Yeah, nice belt,” and that’s it. One baby step at a time, Rori, one baby step at a time. I listen to the CDs on my way to work and on the way home again. Over and over. A lifetime of bad habits aren’t broken overnight, but with perseverance, we can all get there ladies. Put yourselves first!



  88.  #88Tracy on September 22, 2009 at 7:12 am

    wow Gina,
    I totally love your interpretation….totally resonate with it…
    I also feel everything is starting to clear…it felt scary at first…when the light started coming through and i just wanted to run back to my bushy forest…but i feel that now i cant turn back…the future feels much brighter…
    Thanks for sharing that…its made so much sense to me and i feel as though u just elaborated more clearly what Rori explained in words i can understand…how cool is that!!!



  89.  #89Tracy on September 22, 2009 at 7:16 am

    Rori,
    Yeah,I am totally freaked out at making choices…i feel afraid of saying No…..or saying i prefer this to that….
    I am actually going to put this in practice for my next dates….practice saying No to what doesn’t feel good for me…Thank you…



  90.  #90Erika on September 22, 2009 at 7:16 am

    hi Gina,

    Thanks for your comments. I’m intrigued by this in a much bigger sense than just one conflict. I feel sad that it didn’t feel good to you.

    I notice that A course in miracles is all written in “you statements,” many of them provocative and triggering. It’s one of the most healing books around. I tried to imagine what it would be like if it were all written in “I feel” messages, and I feel convinced it wouldn’t have the same impact.

    I feel ok being a minority voice here sometimes. I feel good not forcing myself to “fit in” in order to get anyone else’s approval. I notice the amazing results my clients are getting, when nothing else worked for them (literally nothing), and I feel good that I am willing to try something different than what else is being offered. I feel that I am making a contribution to people’s lives.

    I also feel open to hearing a lot of people’s responses and feedback, including yours. And Daria’s in a private discussion we had. And Rori’s. And everyone else’s.



  91.  #91Simply Shannon on September 22, 2009 at 7:23 am

    “As I worked my way out of that, now, from here, looking back…the truth is…I LOVED and enjoyed the sex. I just needed to put a context, a reason to it that wasn’t there…and that, truly…I didn’t need. I was way more in control of things than I thought. So are you.”

    Rori: I feel confused by this as well. I did/do love sex. I love feeling that closeness with someone. Reading Gina’s comments, are you saying that maybe I wanted sex but I needed to give myself a reason to do it so that I didn’t feel bad for having sex? Is that what you mean? Also when I read “I was way more in control of things than I thought. So are you.” I felt bad because I thought the point was to let down my guard. Is that what you meant? I’ve been accussed of being controlling and it’s something I’m really trying to stop doing. I may have read that wrong.

    My issue right now is a self esteem thing. I feel insecure about myself and use sex as a way to cover up what I believe to be lacking in myself. I feel soooo embarrassed by this. But I see now that I feel almost compelled to introduce sex early on in a relationship. I am literally having to relearn how to just fool around without going straight to sex. It feels incredibly difficult for me to do because I crave sex / closeness so much. And sadly the men I’ve been with haven’t really turned me on that much! I focus so much on them that I forget about me and what I need.

    I feel exposed writing this here for ya’ll to read. I also feel tired of being scared and I’m pushing myself out of my comfort zone as hard as I can. I can actually see now how I can love my fear. Safety feels better but safety can also be a smothering blanket if I let it. Thank you fear for pushing me forward.



  92.  #92Erika on September 22, 2009 at 7:29 am

    And Daria, I feel a little irked by the comment about “when we get fluent” in feeling messages because I’ve been using them for years.

    And still I have my doubts about them in many circumstances. I love language and all its ways of being used. I don’t like feeling that there is only one “right way.”

    One thing I help clients do is to notice things, and feeling messages don’t always work for that. For example, noticing when we are putting ourselves in a “victim” story and painting someone else as a “bully.”

    In NVC we teach that painting someone else as a “bully” creates a self-fulfilling enemy image.

    How does one say that with feeling messages? That’s why I use both feeling messages and concepts.

    I can say “when someone else labels me as a ‘bully,” I feel very unseen. I feel annoyed. I feel concerned for that person’s well-being. I feel an energy of judgment, and it doesn’t feel good to me.”

    But for people to see the larger patterns going on, sometimes we also need concepts. I’m open to other perspectives on this, mostly I’m curious about this, always open to whether there’s a better way.



  93.  #93Erika on September 22, 2009 at 7:50 am

    This is a very sincere question, Sirens. I want to find the very best ways to reach people.

    Here’s an example from A course in miracles:

    “The secret of salvation is but this: That YOU are doing this unto yourself. No matter what the form of the [perceived] attack, this still is true. Whoever takes the role of enemy and of attacker, still is this the truth. Whatever seems to be the cause of any pain and suffering you feel, this is still true. For you would not react at all to figures in a dream you knew that you were dreaming. Let them be as hateful and as vicious as they may, they could have no effect on you, unless you failed to recognize it is YOUR dream. This single lesson learned will set you free from suffering, whatever form it takes.”

    I honestly do not know how that teaching would be conveyed in feeling messages. I am open though, if others see a way. I would love to see it also.



  94.  #94Simply Shannon on September 22, 2009 at 7:59 am

    Erika: Maybe when you’re teaching, you’re “doing” and in boy mode? So feeling messages aren’t used then like they are when we’re just “being”? Just something that occurred to me. I hope that helps.



  95.  #95Erika on September 22, 2009 at 8:04 am

    Here’s another passage from the book, absolutely life changing for me.

    “This sickly picture of yourself is carefully preserved by the ego, whose image it is and which it loves, and placed outside you in the world. And to this world must you adjust as long as you believe this picture is outside, and has you at its mercy. This world is merciless, and were it outside you, you should indeed be fearful. Yet it was you who made it merciless, and now if mercilessness seems to look back at you, it can be corrected.”

    I welcome any feedback about how to convey this in feeling messages. Very sincerely interested in this.



  96.  #96Erika on September 22, 2009 at 8:19 am

    When someone labels herself a “victim” and me a “bully,” I feel frustrated. My need for people to take responsibility for their own well-being and what they are creating in their lives is not met.

    I feel especially frustrated when I see that pattern in other posts, being the “victim” of things at work. I empathize with the co-workers in that situation, because the energy of judgment that I am feeling, if I were less conscious of my own feelings and motivations, would indeed make me feel like “going after” that person. Thus creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    I feel frustrated trying to express that I have lived through similar nightmares, and that these patterns can be erased. I feel concern for her well-being and empathy based on my own experiences.

    I still feel that I have not found the right words to say this.



  97.  #97tinque on September 22, 2009 at 9:03 am

    “As I worked my way out of that, now, from here, looking back…the truth is…I LOVED and enjoyed the sex. I just needed to put a context, a reason to it that wasn’t there…and that, truly…I didn’t need. I was way more in control of things than I thought. So are you.”

    Shannon – What Rori is saying is that she felt the need to put a context to her having sex (past tense) a reason for her having had sex that really didn’t exist. The truth was sex felt GOOD, and she LOVED it. That’s all she needed to know (feel).
    She was in control in that she wanted to have sex, so she did. That’s it. Nothing more to be said.
    In your case you say you sometimes, maybe always, you have sex because you feel you have to, or it’s expected; you might lose this person if you don’t, to prove yourself, or something else.
    You also say that you enjoy sex because it makes you feel close(r) to this person.
    The former is something to think about before you have sex. The latter is fine as long as you still feel good about it after. I too feel much closer after sex even though we’ve been together a long time. If too many days for me have gone by, a feel the lack and a kind of distance.
    I always had sex early on in my relationship, and it never turned out badly, but I have had times when I wished I had been stronger and refused. I have had sex for the wrong reasons. But I did not beat myself up over it. What for? It won’t change anything. I can and will do differently the next time.
    Please let the feeling guilty go. To dwell on it is counterproductive.
    Someone said awhile ago (alias girl?), and I’m paraphrasing here, that she loves sex, and if she sleeps with someone and it felt good, even if she never sees the person again, then it was a good thing.
    I can agree with this. I still feel the BEST sex comes with a deeply intimate, long term relationship, but there’s really nothing wrong with the other.
    It’s how you FEEL about it that is tripping you up. If it doesn’t feel good, DON’T do it. If it does, ENJOY.
    xxoo



  98.  #98Simply Shannon on September 22, 2009 at 9:25 am

    Tinque: You are amazing. Thank you! I do feel some guilt about my sexual history. You are so right though. I need to let that go. It does feel good in the moment but at times if nothing came of it, I felt bad later. (But again, I think that was me framing it in terms of forming a relationship because I needed to believe that’s what I was doing and not just having sex.) For me, I need to put the cart before the horse so to speak. That’s where I’m learning that I need to have sex in a safe environment with a man I can trust to be there for me in alot of ways, including sex (but not only that). I get it now. A lightbulb has been coming on for me around this whole issue. When I don’t feel safe and secure in a relationship, sex is just something that I’m using to prove how good I am. And I can’t really enjoy it fully for myself, because I feel worried that somehow I’ll do something wrong and turn him off.

    I feel relieved to discover all the ways that I overfunction so that I can stop doing those things. I also feel angry with myself that I still continue with a lot of my old ways.

    This journey of self-discovery is so interesting to me. It feels so difficult at times to put away my old habits and focus solely on myself. I listen to my children describe on a daily basis what they want and don’t want with such ease. I feel envious at times that they just “know” and can put it into words without any context or framing. They just say it.



  99.  #99Mercedes on September 22, 2009 at 11:23 am

    My new favorite quote as of today…and so I wanted to share with you…

    If Rosa Parks had taken a poll before she sat down in the bus in Montgomery, she’d still be standing.
    – Mary Frances Berry

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  100.  #100gina on September 22, 2009 at 11:56 am

    Erica i feel amazed at your persistence in trying to control Alias Girl. I don’t mind the tone of “miracles” because it is about life in general. I feel my blood boil when I perceive that you are analyzing, judging, and TRYING TO CONTROL the lives of specific people, especially people on this forum. The boy in me wants to respond to your boy voice SO MUCH, it is really hard not to dole out harsh criticism in return. I wonder how you would feel if I did communicate judgment and criticism. Would you find it “healing?” I’d feel some temporary relief, but I know I would feel guilt in the long run. Unless I convinced myself that I am so superior, that my opinion of people is the actual truth, and that I am doing them a favor by telling them what I think. And perhaps that is why I have imagined this discourse (with you) into being (according to a course in miracles) – as I’m writing this, I remember specific instances when i did give people a piece of my mind and it destroyed the relationship. And I told myself that I didn’t want their relationship anyway cause they were out of touch with the truth, and that i did them a favor by showing them WHAT THEY “SHOULD” FIX about themselves. But those people felt angry and resentful, and I wasn’t any better off for having judged. I feel inspired to rid myself of my own egotistical tendency to judge and be self righteous. I intend to remember, when I think “I’m right,” I’ll remember that you are also convinced that you are “right.” And there’s no way we can change each other, but the one thing that we can’t deny is how the other person feels. That is the one truth that absolutely prevails. And that is why I prefer feeling statements about ourselves as opposed to judgments about others.



  101.  #101Stephanie on September 22, 2009 at 12:26 pm

    ugh!!! 100 comments later, i’m out – i hope this wasnt’ the first blog someone new was following!



  102.  #102gina on September 22, 2009 at 12:35 pm

    I’m feelin bad that my comment seemed to be the kicker for Stephanie. I’m sorry you apparently had a bad experience.



  103.  #103gina on September 22, 2009 at 12:47 pm

    When I first was reading this blog, I felt turned off by all the feelings. I couldn’t imagine getting emotional about people’s posts in cyber world. But now i really appreciate the opportunity to be triggered and communicate outside of the real world. It’s practice. Lately I’ve spent a lot of time on here cause I’m feeling stuck with stuff I’m working on for my business – this has been my procrastination haven. A while back I spent a lot of time on here cause I was in a sort of limbo in life, and at that time a lot of “drama” went down on this blog. I’m wondering if things get out of hand when I get a little too far in this world. I’m feeling judgmental of myself. I feel reluctantly motivated to go take care of things in the real world…



  104.  #104Angeline on September 22, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    I feel very triggered by this whole discussion of labeling someone as a bully. Truth is, there are plenty of bullies out there, and usually bullying is a very male, controlling energy. I don’t think it helps matters at all to start blaming the victim when bullying happens.

    No one has EVER called me a bully, but if it did happen, my first step would be to look inward and question my own integrity around the issue.

    Just my $0.02



  105.  #105gina on September 22, 2009 at 1:47 pm

    something else occurred to me…erika, it wouldn’t be possible to teach math using feeling messages. but this isn’t a math forum, it’s a relationship forum. I cant imagine how math could help in relationships, but math can be used to articulate how things work.



  106.  #106gina on September 22, 2009 at 2:03 pm

    Also Erika, you asked how you could share “wisdom” to help someone you judge to be in “victim mode” with feeling messages. If I was the one you were trying to help, and it was on this forum (i.e. I didn’t pay you for your advice) I would appreciate communication that sounded like…

    “I feel compassion for you. I have experienced something similar. Here is a quote that has helped me gain perspective.” I love this quote because it helped me realize….”

    Rather than communication that sounds like…

    “I know better than you. I am a healer. I have healed lots of people, and what I do works. You are in victim mode and need to take responsibility for your life. You not taking responsibility triggers me cause I have a need for people around me to take responsibility. If you don’t like what I’m saying, it is because you are unwilling to face your problems. If you don’t like the tone of what I’m saying, get past it because I’m doing what is best for you, you just don’t know it.”

    I feel so angry about this kind of communication that I cannot “hear” your help.



  107.  #107Daria on September 22, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    I feel angry and judged by Stephanie! I feel furious and judgemental. I feel amused which i think is a defense i have, but i feel amused nonethelesss in a judgemental way.

    Erika I love this:

    “when someone else labels me as a ‘bully,” I feel very unseen. I feel annoyed. I feel concerned for that person’s well-being. I feel an energy of judgment, and it doesn’t feel good to me.”

    OMG this feels SO GOOD TO HEAR ! hehe I feel rejoiceful. This rings SO TRUE.

    I feel interested in Gina’s comment about math. I teach math. hmm… I don’t use feeling messages doing it… I do use a lot of “what do you think?”… present some info and “what do you think?” type questions… verrry interesting

    I think i remember Rori saying that teaching is Boy energy. well so teaching a man without his asking for it would be giving him boy energy and pushing him away. I would feel FURIOUS and JUDGED to be “taught” when I don’t want to be. I would not want to hear it.

    I would hear the feeling messages though, because

    “feeling messages sneak past the ego and go straight to the heart” ~ Daria (famous poet writer rapper speaker influential figure healer* + more! and Goddess )

    lol



  108.  #108Daria on September 22, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    Wow Gina. that feels very true thank you. Wow really great use of feeling messages too woo hooo hooo



  109.  #109Daria on September 22, 2009 at 2:27 pm

    I keep feeling compelled to reread Stephanie’s comment and I feel judged and I feel like atttacccckinggggg… omgosh



  110.  #110Stephanie on September 22, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    attack away, I can take it…
    notice that I simply mentioned the extreme # of posts on this topic & that I am needing a break from all of it!
    if you are feeling guilty for the horrible tone the dialog has taken and responsible for driving people away, that is your issue alone. if you reread the posts (especially toward the end, you might agree that someone new to rori’s writings might be turned off by all the “drama” between the participants)
    i only noticed the issues with my post because, although i unsubscribed, they continue to come & noticed my name now being bantered about… some days we all need a “punching bag” – glad to be of service!



  111.  #111Daria on September 22, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    I don’t want to attack you Stephanie, I feel like doing it very much, because i feel triggered, but i don’t want to do it. I feel furious at being judged.

    I don’t think this particular post did not have a lot of comments regarding conflict unlike say, the last 2. lol

    nonetheless, I feel judged hearing posts classified as “drama” when people are trying to work through their communication and find healing

    yes that can be triggering. Rori teaches that through feeling triggered and finding ways to express our feelings we find healing and feel empowered.

    i also don’t like being told how i feel “ie guilty.” I feel comfortable, and now furious.

    I FEEL SOO FURIOUS!

    and i feel smily which feels disturbign to me.

    I LOVE ALL MY FEELINGS!!!



  112.  #112Callista on September 22, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    I feel confused. I’ve gone back through the comments and maybe I haven’t been around long enough, but I don’t know anything about this conflict so I feel lost, and it doesn’t feel good.

    Anyway, I wanted to share something. My ex husband used to say that he loved it when I “spoiled” myself. He was really thrilled, tickled pink! It resonated with what Rori was saying about “What inspires him to do that is the sight of me asleep in the bed at four in the afternoon because I feel lousy and I’m taking care of myself. He’s inspired when I take care of myself.” He was always really happy when I was doing things to make myself happy, such as buying myself a gift, or relaxing on the couch with a good book and some coffee, or totally immersed in something I found joyful (or even just being totally lazy and pampering myself by not doing anything). And he glowed when I got excited about something, even moreso when something he’d done was the source of the excitement.



  113.  #113Daria on September 22, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    Riffing:

    I love feeling smily when I feel furious. I feel numb, I feel tingly in my leg. I feel tight in my head. I feel my lips set in a pout. I feel frozen. I love my frozenness, I love my set lips, i love my tight feeling head, i love the tingly feeling in my leg. I loe the dizzy feeling in my head, I love my numbness, and that feels like a little relaxed smile, and pinching in the right side of my head, and i love that, and a deep achy feeling in the top of my tummy, and i love my deep achy feeling…

    and that feels like… staring eyes, and I love my staring eyes, and that feels like squeezing on the left side of my mouth, and i love the squeezing on the left side of my mouth… and that feels like… images of beating people up… and i love my images of beating people up… and that feels like burping lol… and i love my burping… and that feels like smily and moving and embarassment and i love my smile and movingness and embarassment, and that feels like pressing in my lower tummy and i love the pressing in my lower tummy and that feels like gurgling in my chest and i love the gurgling in my chest, and that feels like opening the window, which i just did and that feels like my eyes opening up to more brightness and that feels good, and that feels like tightening in my lower lower tummy and i love my tightening in my lower tummy, and the feels like sadness around my heart and i love the sadness around my heart, and that feels like anger… it feels like hotness in my shoulder and tightening down my right arm all the way to my forearm and tightening up the right side of my neck all the way along to my right eye… and i love my tightening arm and ashoulder and neck and that feels like more squeezing in my lower abdomen and i love the squeezing in my lower abdomen… and that feels like sighing and i love my sigh, and that feels like overwhelm and more squeezing in my upper abdomen and i love my overwhelm and teh squeezing in my upper abdomen and that felt like tingling in my big toe and MORE squeezing in my upper abdomen and all around my sides ouch and I love my squeezing in my upper abdomen and around my sides and in my big toe



  114.  #114Daria on September 22, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    I feel sad, i feel overwhelmed by sadness in my forehead and down to my mouth…

    i feel pained in my tummy in my upper tummy and that feels sad…

    i love my sad feelings

    i feel like closing my eyes and laying down with my sad feelings

    i feel tingled

    i love my tinglyness, adn my sadness… i love my wanting to lay down and curl up

    i love all my feelings



  115.  #115gina on September 22, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Erika,
    I think that the message i said I “could hear” was lacking part of the truth – negative feelings. so maybe it would be more like…

    “I feel majorly triggered cause the experience your describing feels very familiar. Mostly, I feel compassion for what you’re going through. Here is a quote that has helped me gain perspective.” I love this quote because it helped me realize….”



  116.  #116gina on September 22, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    what do you think?



  117.  #117Jennifer on September 22, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    Callista,

    I totally agree with what you are saying about spoiling yourself, and it making him happy. My guy.. if I can even call him that, is always telling me that I don’t do enough for me. That I am always putting everything and everyone before myself, and to be honest, I always wondered why that bothered him so much, because frankily.. he benefited from it and it made me feel like a good person. Now, when I do something for myself, and I mention it to him, he gets happy and sadly does the “SEE… I TOLD YOU SO” thing… but his heart is in the right place. I can only speak for myself, but I think that I use to put everyone else’s needs before mine because I was trying to PROVE that I was good enough, that if you love me… look what you get… see what I will do for you… you’ll never have a cold meal, even though I cooked it and I sit down last to eat. Alot of my past behavior is learned. I learned from my mother. You cook the meal, and you serve your husband and children first, and then you clean the pots and pans so that your kitchen is nice and clean, and THEN you eat.. a lovely cold dish, and then clean the rest of the dishes. I wonder how things would of worked differently in my parents marriage if my mother had leaned back… if she had spoiled herself… if I had learned different lessons growing up… But I can say is that I am learning the lessons now and it is better then later!! SO thankful that I found Rori! YEA!!



  118.  #118Daria on September 22, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    Yay Jennifer! boy did i use to do this too!



  119.  #119Tina on September 22, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    I swear next time I get a “hi” on my messenger, I’m going to say “I feel annoyed” I feel all snaky again, I feel like I want to strike. I’ve been looking around for a perfect snake pendent. A very feminine snake of course. I feel all slithery like a snake. I feel my peace is being disturbed. I dont like feeling this way. Stike with percission if I miss then you’ll know better than to fck with me next time hehe. I feel like I’m being taunted, like come out and play Snake Tina. Oh I’ll come out and play ,but when I want to, I’ll come play with you in your sleep hehe. You have been forwarned!



  120.  #120Tina on September 22, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    It’s a nice orangy colored fall feeling day, the air is damp, the smell of leaves and trees, I feel peace in my head down to my “lower chakras” lol, makes me smile. My tomatoes are rippening in the cupboard, all wrapped in paper bags. Oh I cant wait for the sauce!

    When I say ” exert less energy” for a man, I guess what I feel is that I dont feel shut down, closed off, nothing to offer, just my feelings , thats it. Ive come to realize that my FEELINGS are the most sacred part of who I am, I will not veer off course by doing , doing , doing. It’s easier said than done I know. Physically moving closer to my date is exerting a lot of energy, a five day first date as well. He’s paying so , I’m not sure if I am in masculine mode when I am physically having to move closer to him instead of him coming to me. Oh hell, I’ll just enjoy the trip. This sounds kinda dumb but, I am listed on a dating site, the problem for me is it’s kinda remote so yeah. We sorta met two years ago, I didnt give him the time of day, just one night, I opened myself up to a possibility, whoops! oh well. I really feel I need to go on several dates with other men before I head out, just to check out how I feel around him. I could get all caught up in this rendevous lol.

    We did talk about sex over the phone , not in a phone sex way, just the what ifs. What if I had random sex on the first date? what if we dont have sex at all? what if we just had coffee and he massaged my toes? Do you take birth control? Do you use condoms? Can I lick your walls? lol yeah thats what he said we laughed. Can you just give a massage if intense sexual feelings happen? Can you handle it? Can you handle it? I have an 8 inch penis, on and on like that, just the possibilites I guess.

    He is by the way, looking for his “forever” , so he claims, I dunno…



  121.  #121Tina on September 22, 2009 at 4:05 pm

    I told him further about his #8 lol, I said men tend to um exaggerate about their size so, I’ll just take off oh a half inch or so, I’ll say your about 7 then. He “felt” bad about that and said he is concerned that he wouldnt “measure up” to my idea of a perfect man, I said I feel more concerned about my feelings, he then said “oh.” I always thought men measured those. The Canadian flag and Elizabeth Taylors lovers are not up for discussion during our really long first date. I feel its unpatriotic or disrespectful to not to that at a hockey game whether its your country or not, anyway, we had a huge discussion over and almost “broke up” our phone engagement.



  122.  #122Tina on September 22, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    It’s all about protecol, hockey games included. You stand your butt up and sing the national athem ok you dont have to sing but you have to stand, besides its a nhl game, I dont like hockey btw. I will at least stand and place my hand over my heart for gods sakes. I just dont know if i can go to a hockey game with him while he sits, it’s just disrespectful and unpatriotic, I would feel embarressed. (Were not going to watch a hockey game Thank God! ) lol. I suppose its ok if your sitting in one of those box things, doenst “feel” so exposed. I just feel its in bad taste to not do so. He thinks E.T is a hoe, OMG! I coudlnt believe I was hearing it. I almost passed out from shock!



  123.  #123jennifer on September 22, 2009 at 4:43 pm

    oh sirens, I feel so overwhelmed.
    I told B I needed to take $200 out of the joint account for fuel oil. where I live now has a tank that I didn’t know about when I moved in, I over paid some bills and now I’m short on $.
    I immediately received flak about how he now has enough to pay off his part of the overdraft but he sees how it will not stay paid for long. And this is more stress for him while he’s away for training.
    I snapped.
    Freaked.
    LOOOOOST it.
    I told him that he had left his half of the over draft unpaid for over a year. Leaving my ass hanging in the wind cause he opened a new account for his military pay. therefore if the bank is looking for funds to freeze mine are easier to find. I reminded him that I told him how it made me feel but was careful not to bust his chops about it. But now when I need a little slack on the money thing he jumps on me with two feet.
    I screamed “I don’t want to be in this relationship right now. This is absolute bull shit. If you were any closer than 3 hours away I’d slap your face. This is not how people who love each other act. Where the F*ck is my emotional support!?!?!?!?!?!?”
    He agreed with everything I said. Then he said “I knew I shouldn’t have given my opinion, you don’t want to hear what I have to say really”
    I agreed with him. I don’t want his opinion, it’s always crappy. It’s always the “poor Ben” story regardless of what is happening.

    So I was totally anti-goddess. I was the screaming meanie. I was not soft on the outside, I was an radioactive cactus. I swore and yelled and told him that if I ever hear from him again that I can’t have money for a necessity it would be our last fight ever. I told him he had totally F*&cked the situation and he had better unF*ck it ASAP or we were done.
    I asked him where the hell he got off.
    Later he emailed me about what to get me for Christmas and I told him I didn’t want to talk about christmas, I want to talk about our shitty relationship. I told him I felt Bitchy. I hate to be ignored. I hate to be brushed aside. I don’t want to be in a relationship where I’m igored.
    So when he leaned toward me I was still the radioactive cactus.
    I guess I need to review “have the relationship you want”



  124.  #124Daria on September 22, 2009 at 5:41 pm

    Jennifer… it sounds like you stood strong in your boundaries, and besides some leaning forward with the YOU messages etc, took care of yourself. Speaking our feelings is not always “nice” sometimes its “bitchy.”

    This in particular sounds really good feeling message wise:

    “I told him I felt Bitchy. I hate to be ignored. I hate to be brushed aside. I don’t want to be in a relationship where I’m igored.”



  125.  #125jennifer on September 22, 2009 at 6:04 pm

    Daria:
    Thanks for the encouragement. I feel like I’m not doing things the “goddess” way. I feel like we’re supposed to express with a minimum of drama and I got drama all over this thing!
    I just couldn’t be calm. I have been cutting him so much slack with the military training that I expected a little in return and when it didn’t happen I LOST it.
    It’s ironic. I am the least “needy” woman I know. I do everything myself. Even last month when my roommate’s ex tried to break in to our house. I dealt with it THEN called him on base to tell him what happened.
    I just figure if I don’t need a lot of stuff generally, if a situation comes up where I do…I’ve got extra points or something.
    It ain’t workin out so hot.



  126.  #126jennifer on September 22, 2009 at 6:23 pm

    Great Topic Rori!
    Over functioning in my relationship looks like; doing all the saying I love you. Doing all the shopping at the holidays. When we lived together it looked like working full time and doing all the housework and then trying to look sexy.
    It sucked, let me tell you.
    I’m curious if more women who are oldest children over function or is it all women?
    I’m the oldest. I got used for a babysitter alot. I think that contributes to my chronic need to overfunction and under ask.
    Discuss….



  127.  #127Jennifer F on September 22, 2009 at 6:58 pm

    Jennifer,

    I am now wondering about the Oldest Child being a “over functioner” by nature comment. I wonder if that is true. I am the oldest child, and I can tell you that I WAY overfunction, while both of my siblings (One girl and one boy) do not.. in fact.. they are of the attitude of “prove you love me” instead of me where I was of the attitude of “I can prove why you SHOULD love me”. Very interesting thought…



  128.  #128Robin on September 22, 2009 at 7:05 pm

    I love this post!!! This is so difficult to do, so its definitely a work in progress…

    And so are all the Circular Dating tools, they’re a process. This truly is a process of healing, and Im totally digging it!!

    I’ve missed posting on this blog, I’ve been reading and practicing, and progressing, I just haven’t had the time to stay online long enough to post 🙁

    BUT..I’m really having the time of my life meeting and dating new men. And for about the past 6 weeks, they’ve all been showing up at the same time, so I’ve had the pleasure of learning how to interact with multiple dates at the same time.

    And, boy oh boy, the fear of intimacy is coming up front and center..and I didnt know it was as pronounced as it actually is. I’ve found myself asking him (in my mind) ‘what’s wrong with you? why are you talking to me?” OR I find myself acting out of nervous energy…

    So not DOING anything sounds fantastic!

    AND the quality of men is just getting better and better!

    AND I would love to hear what you think of this…A guy that is VERY nice, very sweet, giving, and I really like him, wants to start seeing me multiple nights.

    He goes to church with me. Right after my concert in August, he walked up to me and handed me a very generous donation toward to fundraising goal. After that, we talked at church and eventually, he asked me out. We’ve been out twice, he’s been an ABSOLUTE gentleman, incredibly masculine,

    And Im going, WOAH, he’s totally different from the guys from even a month ago,

    The quality of men has been inching closer and closer to this caliber, but this guy is off the charts..I feel like an absolute goddess, like a queen, in his presence, and he treats me accordingly..

    We’ve been on only 2 official dates, He has asked me if he can start seeing me multiple nights. He’s asked for this coming Friday and Saturday nights.

    Is this ok? Im still dating others. And I want to say yes, but..

    I feel scared… (I love my fear 🙂



  129.  #129alias girl on September 22, 2009 at 8:24 pm

    i like the man i met. i don’t feel like circular dating. i don’t FEEL like dating other guys. i like this guy. i feel good to still flirt with other men. let them ask me for my number but i don’t want to go on dates with other men right now.

    my guy is going to church with me tomorrow. maybe. but he is open to it. was open to it when i suggested it as a first meeting. he said ok.

    today we hung out. and i kept spitting out maybes to him. but like in a backhanded way. we were talking about my apt. i said. “you’ll see it.” then i took it back and added. “maybe”.

    he said why do you do that? becuase my head— in my head i’m getting it straight one way and then you do that.

    i told him i was sorry. i told him i felt insecure and was afraid to open my heart. not those exact words. it was like a half sentence. i said, if i open my heart…” and then i just trailed off.

    i told him i would stop doing that.

    it’s like i made of list of all these qualities in a man. and the universe sadi, here. here you are alias girl. how do you like him?

    and i feel like

    how could it be? how is this real?

    we had a moment in the car and he was a little stressed about something and i could feel myself focussing on him wanting to get all into and “help” him solve his problems. i did not. i turned on the radio. and it was jarring to him. i said oh i’m sorry. we can leave it down.

    he said no no you’re right. it’s good…

    it’s like that communication where he understood why i did it and that my intention was not to disturb or control but to remain healthy and uplifted so i would not go to meet his stress level but yet could allow him to be with whatever he needed to mull about.



  130.  #130Robin on September 22, 2009 at 8:48 pm

    Oh, and I forgot, I’ve gotta add this..

    This particular guy has touched on a core need of mine, that I didn’t even know existed..

    One thing about this guy is that he is not ashamed to show affection in public, but Im not talking about PDAs, he’s just very attentive to me, and in public, he will do anything to make me happy or comfortable. For example, he carried my purse on our last date (mine feels like, 30 lbs lol), and the following Sunday at church, he carried it again for me as we were walking in the parking lot.

    And I realized that its important to me to have a guy who is not embarrassed to do things for me IN PUBLIC

    This is something that makes me feel fantastic…and its something that used to be a distinct pattern with me-the men I would get involved with would only be affectionate or do things for me in private…in public it was a different story…and I told myself for a long time that that was OK because I ‘didn’t really like PDAs anyway’, that they made me feel embarrassed

    But thats just not true anymore..

    The truth is these ‘PDA’s’ (not necessarily physical, but they could be…) make me feel ADORED, and this feels incredibly important to me..

    As a matter of fact, this feels like my top core need, to feel like Im truly adored…

    And I wasnt even aware that this was going on inside me, until this guy stepped and was publicly affectionate and giving to me ( in front of our friends, my co-workers, and 2 of my ex’s)..

    I feel like Ive really had a major break-through. This feels fantastic!!



  131.  #131Rori Raye on September 22, 2009 at 9:15 pm

    Jennifer F, Welcome, and yes…I think there’s definitely something to the order of birth…Love, Rori



  132.  #132Daria on September 22, 2009 at 9:24 pm

    hmm … one of the guys that I liked the most on the phone hasn’t called me… since like two days ago maybe? I find myself ‘missing’ him and wondering if our mutual aquaintance said something bad about me or if i promised to call him back and forgot

    the other one, who i was feeling a little more skeptical, i had a nice convo with yesterday, where i got mad but then he made it up so that felt good, and i felt safer with him… i told him i return calls if i get a message, but now he’s left me 3 and i returned 2, he wants to call me all the time which is cool, but i don’t feel like returning calls all the time even without voicemails

    the third one, was wanting me to meet him at his work at lunch, i didn’t bother responding, he called but i missed it, haven’t heard from him, felt turned off

    feeling kinda lonely, was thinking about a guy in new york that i liked, which is unusual…

    feeling lonely a little down man wise, maybe haven’t been focusing as much on my work as i would like, also haven’t been working out and stretching as much

    i dono

    hmm…

    people at the toastmasters thing are so nice and complimenting me, it feels fun and energetic there, this lady asked me over to dinner, i felt like whoa… shocked but good i said yes



  133.  #133Erika on September 22, 2009 at 10:55 pm

    Mercedes,

    Thanks for that quotation. I love Rosa Parks. I feel so inspired by her life and what she did, just an ordinary seamstress, showing us all how much power each ordinary one of us really has if we can find our inner strength.

    After sitting with it today, I would like to add something to the feeling messages thing. I don’t think it’s feminine or masculine. For now, I’m going to call it “noticing.”

    So if I’m in my feelings, I might be very sad or angry, and if so, I’m pretty identified with whatever experience I’m having.

    And I might feeling message myself until I’m exhausted with feeling messages and still be having the same sad and angry experiences over and over again.

    But then the “noticer” shows up. The noticer says, now wait a minute, Erika, are you noticing the familiarity of this pattern, this experience that you’re in. Doesn’t it feel eerily like … [fill in memory here].

    Then I realize the experience I’ve been so identified with is not real. It’s a story I’m telling myself, feeling messages and all. That’s when I become empowered. That’s when I can change my life. That’s when I can rewrite the script.

    Feeling messages are wonderful. They bring a lot of presence, and presence helps dissolve old icky dysfunctional patterns (such as victim stories or man hating stories, etc.).

    But “noticing” adds a whole new level of power and presence and conscious awareness, and makes the dissolving and transformation go WAY faster.

    To me, noticing, (and then of course applying EFT ;-), is not masculine. It feels like it goes hand in hand with feminine energy. And men can use it too. It feels neutral to me.

    My intent in all this conversation with AG could probably ultimately be summarized in one word: “noticing.”



  134.  #134Erika on September 22, 2009 at 11:09 pm

    I wanted to add that most of my coaching sessions are not “coaching” in the traditional sense of giving advice, which may feel masculine to many.

    I don’t really give advice, because in general I don’t think it’s helpful.

    Instead, I move into deep empathy with the person I’m working with. I literally step into their feeling space, and I can feel every little nuance of their anxiety, their sadness, their anger.

    From that perspective, I can help them feel and “notice” their way out of the patterns they are in. I ask provocative questions, but in sessions it’s gentle. I’m definitely not letting anyone get away with their own bullshit though. And people appreciate that. In their heart of hearts, people don’t really want to go on playing helpless, or victim, or social outcast. They want to be empowered. They’re often just scared to take a step in that direction because they’ve been disappointed so many times before.

    So many attempts to change, and nothing worked.

    Until now. I’m working with a guy right now who had literally been to just about every other coach in the industry and was absolutely stuck. And now … it’s only been a few weeks, and his life has improved dramatically. Every aspect of him has changed, his voice, his confidence, his social intuition, his dating life. Major major transformation.

    All from going into deep empathy with someone who knows how to notice the patterns and dissolve them with EFT.



  135.  #135gina on September 22, 2009 at 11:27 pm

    AAAAArgh!! I feel unheard and incredulous.



  136.  #136Erika on September 22, 2009 at 11:34 pm

    Gina,

    Are you referring to me? I won’t be offended if you are, I just don’t want to assume.

    This is one of my frustrations with “out in the air” feeling messages that don’t speak to a particular person. I don’t feel the clarity in communication that I would enjoy.



  137.  #137Erika on September 22, 2009 at 11:40 pm

    Gina,

    In case you are talking to me, I wanted to say that I read your comments carefully and will probably read them again.

    I feel you on the “being right” thing. So often though the wanting to be heard can look like wanting to be right, when it’s really just wanting to be heard. I can see why it would trigger anger if you interpreted everything I said as wanting to be right.

    On your suggested language, I like it. I appreciate you making a suggestion too, after venting your frustration. My first gut feeling is that the language just doesn’t feel like me. It feels a little too lukewarm and “nice.” And that’s not a judgment of you or your suggestion. The words might feel great to someone else, to me it feels like watering down what I’m saying.

    But I am listening to you. I always listen even if that may not be obvious right in the heat of the moment. I like to absorb all feedback and let it steep a bit, and then my shifts happen organically out of that, instead of reactively.



  138.  #138gina on September 22, 2009 at 11:43 pm

    Erika, I literally walked away from the computer, and walked to work, and continued to feel frustrated by your communication into my shift at work this morning. I thought for a long time about how to tell you how angry and triggered I feel by your posts lately. I definitely am embracing this opportunity to try to communicate with someone who is triggering me beyond belief. I recently dated a guy who triggered me (almost) this much with the way he communicated, and I usually fell short with the feeling messages. I ripped him apart. I expressed my judgment of him because I hoped he would change, whereas, if I expressed feeling messages in earnest, it would have been in order to feel good myself – whether he changed or not wouldn’t have been the point for me. Maybe AG had it right when she redirected her attention away from you in order to feel good. I feel like walking away and never giving your voice another chance to irritate me. I feel cruel. I also feel determined. Aaaaargh I feel so trigggggerrrrrred.



  139.  #139gina on September 22, 2009 at 11:44 pm

    okay, I just saw that you addressed me. phew. I feel relieved. And thankful. I’m gonna read what you wrote now.



  140.  #140gina on September 22, 2009 at 11:46 pm

    I feel bad that i put all that out there when you had addressed me after all. I feel bad. and relieved. and appreciative, but mostly sorry that I jumped the gun.



  141.  #141Erika on September 22, 2009 at 11:54 pm

    I’m not upset about it, Gina. I jump the gun sometimes too, especially if I’m triggered.

    I love it if when I do something like that, and then the other person says “aww, it’s no big deal,” and means it. When that happens, I feel like the world is a very forgiving, beautiful place.

    Happened a few times today at work. Felt warm and nice.



  142.  #142gina on September 23, 2009 at 12:02 am

    I feel calm and heard and I really appreciate you talking to me girl to girl. I just reread what I wrote to you and i think it was unfair of me to accuse you (or that guy) of “triggering” me. I should have said that I “felt” it. And I think it was accusatory of me to say that your voice “irritates” me, rather than say that somehow the tone of your recent posts feels like nails on a chalkboard for me. I remember Nikkita saying in the past that your posts feel like a cold drink on a hot summer day (or something like that) and I remember thinking, yeah that’s so true – somehow your voice really sounded “above” judgment and very accepting of all that is and ever expansive and loving. there was a mix of feeling messages and the noticing that you are describing, and it felt really good to read what you had to say. What I feel triggered by is the judgment that I have been sensing. The judge in me wakes right up and hears your judge saying that you are superior to me, and my judge wants to beat yours up. And I do appreciate this discourse in the sense that it has challenged me to tame my inner judge, cause it has been abusive to me and others. I’m feeling very grateful for your presence.



  143.  #143gina on September 23, 2009 at 2:59 am

    Erika, I’m wondering if my version sounded “watered down because i didn’t articulate the POWER of how you felt. OBVIOUSLY you have very strong feelings about how you were relating to AG, and I would agree that what I said doesn’t really do justice for the passion you seem to feel. If someone conveys their passion by letting me know what’s going on inside of them, then I may feel scared about it, but I’m also curious. Now that I’m imagining the STRENGTH of you feelings, I can see how it could feel super difficult to communicate from that triggered place.
    If I was to express that I feel powerless, I would feel willing to hear a message like…

    I can relate to the feeling of powerlessness that you are describing experiencing SO MUCH that I’m feeling super triggered. I want to get involved. to meddle to control. And to judge And it feels bad. I feel very curious about why I feel so STRONGLY! It feels like I am looking in a mirror. yes It feels like I am looking at a mirror and I want to change what I see. that feels insane. I am totally out of my comfort zone. I want to be able to help you as a way to do over what I went through. I want to send a lifeline. I feel so much compassion for what you’re going through and grief for what I went through, and now I’m rejoicing at what I went through. It brought me here and that feels good. phew. okay, I’m feeling calm. It would feel cathartic for me to share what helped me get from where I was to where I am…
    …and now it feels SO good to realize that I have CHOICES and there are so many POSSIBILITIES.”

    Those are the underlying feelings I was hearing under the boy voice. I feel weird sharing my interpretation of your feelings – I have no idea if it rings true for you. but it feels interesting to share feelings I sense bubbling beneath the surface, going unsaid, and affecting what I see. I would feel willing to hear passion expressed this way cause even though it sorta sounds like it’s about me, I would feel safe – I would get that you are dealing with yourself. I could sit back and look at your process (maybe mirrored back at me?) and feel inspired by what you went through. If I felt your passion directed AT me, I would run away. If I heard you judging me harshly and not articulating the feelings that are going on inside of you, I would feel unsafe and I would run away. ESPECIALLY since the whole thing started with me expressing that I felt powerless.



  144.  #144Nikita on September 23, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    hi Gina 🙂
    I feel surprised and curious about what I said…..mmm I don’t remember :)))



  145.  #145Vicki Kerns on September 23, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    Ladies, do you sometimes just want to pick up the “oar” and whack yourself over the head? I really, REALLY have to work my tools more. Just when I think I may be getting ahead, I’ll do something goofy like send him an e-mail. Arghgghg! Saturday will be one year since I re-connected with this man and it has completely gone full circle. From nothing last fall, re-connect, calls, start dating (at least that’s what I call it…I classify holding my hand and putting his arm around me as “dating), 2 months of feeling like a queen, end up in bed (oops), maintain friendship, initiate friends with benefits (once a month…whazzup with that?), continue friendship, sex stopped on Memorial Day after an incredible day where he made sure it was all about me, friendship starts dwindling, phone calls start dwindling, visits start dwindling, and now it feels pretty much like square one. I guess that’s where my feelings of desperation come about. I’m in my head way too much trying to figure out what went wrong.

    OK ladies, I’m having a big problem getting past us having incredible sex and he just stops, cold turkey, with no explanation. Hey, aren’t I supposed to be his “friend.” After a repressed sex life my whole life, I opened up to this man, sharing fantasies, him telling me that I could tell him anything. I really feel raw and that’s one thing I’m so mad about. It’s hard to let go. And after such an incredible day. Anyone got a theory on this one?

    Memorial Day. He was coming over later for a cookout (just us) and he calls early in the morning and asks me what I was going to do that morning. I said nothing. And he starts asking me how I’d like him to come over and, well, it was very sexy and erotic, and nothing I had ever done before. One of those fantasy things. And he called a couple more times before he got there to “talk” some more about what he’d like to do. I’ve never been so turned on in my life! He gets there and asks me to totally take charge, he’ll basically be my love slave, ok? Wow! Later, we watched a dirty movie (something else I’d never done with a guy), and then back upstairs. Now in the middle of all this, this man is concentrating solely on my pleasure, and I thought he was going to have to scrape me off the ceiling. So here’s where I think the kicker is. He asks me, “Hasn’t any other guy ever done this for you?” And I said, “No, no one has ever taken the time like you have. Thank you.” Then he seems to get miffed (at men in general) and says, “Some guys are so selfish. They should always make sure the woman is taken care of. Don’t ever let another guy…” and he stopped and didn’t finish his sentence. I don’t recall what he said next but it was something completely differently. And I’m thinking (yes, my damn brain is in think mode during sex. No wonder orgasms have always been elusive for me), “Huh, why didn’t he finish his sentence? It was like he stopped because he didn’t want to think about me with another man.”

    And that’s the last time we were together. Any clues? Of course, I’ve overthought it to death. Maybe he didn’t want to think of me with another man. Maybe something like that made his stop and go, “Wo, I’m getting in over my head here. I can’t do a relationship.” I don’t know. But this is the one thing that hurts me so badly. To encourage me to open up and then just walk away.



  146.  #146tinque on September 23, 2009 at 4:27 pm

    Vicki – All I’m getting is that it was TOO good. He got too close; he let you in; you let him in, and he bolted. He sounds scared to me. Has he ever had a GOOD intimate relationship? If he has and it ended badly, then he’s terrified of a repeat. If he hasn’t then real intimacy frightens him for much the same reason, fear of loss. There may be nothing you can do about this, or it may just be a matter of time and a building of trust. But he has to want to.
    xxoo



  147.  #147Jennifer F on September 23, 2009 at 4:45 pm

    Hi Tinque,

    I was reading what you wrote to Vicki and I must be a negative thinker, because I sadly thought that when he said “Don’t ever let another guy…” and then stopped talking, was him accidentally ratting himself out. He said outloud that he is just stringing her along. That she WILL be with another guy some day and that it is NOT going to be him. I hope that I am wrong… Either way.. Vicki, hold on girl and focus on yourself and the things that will make you happy just “being”. I am cheering you on!



  148.  #148tinque on September 23, 2009 at 5:04 pm

    Jennifer – if that’s the case, it’s still the same; he’s frightened, or he’s frightened, or he’s an ass, and there really aren’t as many asses out there as reputation gives. It’s usually fear.
    That said, all one can do is be authentic, and if the other person is willing to come along for the ride, awesome, if not…well there’s nothing really one can do except….BE AUTHENTIC
    xxoo



  149.  #149Jennifer F on September 23, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    AUTHENTIC… I love it and I agree!



  150.  #150Callista on September 23, 2009 at 5:21 pm

    Hi ladies,
    I have a question about feeling messages. Sorry this is a bit off topic from overfunctioning. How do you let a guy know how you feel about something he does without blaming him if you have to describe the behavior and the behavior is negative? For example, in my last relationship, the man I was with was always lecturing me and blaming. I tried to use feeling messages (“When you… I feel…”) but actually this is difficult because describing “lecturing” or “blaming” sounds like criticism or judgment (“When you lecture me, I feel weird/mad/sad/insulted”). So I ended up saying things like “I feel lectured” or “I feel blamed” which of course still sounds like criticism to him and I agree. What’s a better way to do this? (These are just 2 examples, I’m sure the same question could be applied to any number of behaviors.) Any ideas? Thanks!!



  151.  #151alias girl on September 23, 2009 at 5:25 pm

    and circular date.



  152.  #152tinque on September 23, 2009 at 5:56 pm

    Callista – one of the best ways is to catch it in the moment and say, “this feel awful” or “this feels bad. I don’t want to feel bad.” See what he says. If he says nothing or continues in a way that feels bad, leave the room quietly, and go do something, anything that makes you feel better if only a little. This will shift the dynamic between you two though it may very well not be right away or even next week.
    xxoo



  153.  #153Callista on September 23, 2009 at 6:33 pm

    Tinque – that helps, thanks! Ultimately, that is what happened in that relationship. We had talked many times about him bringing up the past and he couldn’t stop. The last time we spoke, he was just getting started, and I interrupted him, asked him to please stop and said I couldn’t hear it anymore and that it felt bad and that I had to go. I opted out of the situation. And he didn’t step up and we haven’t spoken since (that was over 3 months ago, and we had been together a year). I feel so much better having let that relationship go, and what you are saying makes sense, and I will have to try it if I ever find myself in a similar situation again.

    It really is easier just to say how you feel and what you don’t want rather than make him “wrong.”

    Here’s a hypothetical situation: what if he wants to know what he is doing that is making you feel bad? Do you just continue to say it feels bad or do you say *what* is making you feel bad? Am I making sense?



  154.  #154tinque on September 23, 2009 at 6:46 pm

    Chances are that won’t happen. Men just don’t seem to ask questions like that. That’s a girl thing, but on the very off chance he does, you can say when you….it feels bad, or whatever it is you feel. But like I said…
    xxoo



  155.  #155Callista on September 23, 2009 at 6:57 pm

    lol yeah I guess I tend to overanalyze… I just want to be prepared… What you’re saying makes total sense and I’ll definitely try that next time. Just simply that I feel bad/uncomfortable/weird or I don’t like it.

    I’m just thinking that I’d be confused what to say in the off chance that he would want more information. If I said “When it feels like you’re lecturing me, I feel bad” or “I feel lectured and I don’t like it” that seems critical to me and yet I can’t think of another way to put it… unless maybe I followed that up with a question, such as “is that how you meant to come across? what do you think?” Then maybe it wouldn’t seem so accusatory but more like this is how I’m perceiving it and asking him if that’s really how he meant it and giving him a chance to correct it… What do you think?



  156.  #156Daria on September 23, 2009 at 7:23 pm

    Callista – I would feel comfortable saying

    “I feel lectured and that feels bad.” or “I feel blamed and I don’t want to be blamed”

    It would certainly feel like a good baby step for me personally. Also since I FEEL blamed, doesn’t really mean I AM blamed, so I’m just sharing my feelings.



  157.  #157Callista on September 23, 2009 at 7:51 pm

    This feels good… I feel calm now… I feel more prepared to handle these situations and more confident… and more relaxed because it feels so simple and easy to do! And that makes me feel hopeful… you girls rock!



  158.  #158cookie on September 23, 2009 at 7:53 pm

    thank you tinque for responding to me. in the beginning of the relationship the sex was really nice, it was new and it felt really special and frequent. i never felt so good sexually with a person as i did with him. after being the date raped and apart of countless one night stands, the idea of having one partner that really cares about you was something i need and want. being with him made me feel that way.
    now sometimes he doesn’t even look at me, he says its because he doesn’t want to looked at i don’t really know how to ask for what i need because i don’t really know what i want in that area. i feel so freaking insecure I can’t stand it. sometimes, i will be naked but mostly i feel like covering my body when i am around him and i don’t want to feel that way. i feel supercritical of myself and maybe that is being manifested through our sex life. but i don’t know how to get that mojo back. I just feel so unhappy and jealous of everyone around me. I can’t stop making comparisons and being angry and bitchy and I’m annoying myself.
    Sinking into these feelings feels awful and everything else feels like temporary release. I don’t know what to do anymore. i’m trying to maintain my twice of week sessions with my personal trainer but I have been canceling or just not giving it the energy it needs. I feel almost like I can’t put myself first, like I’m going to die soon because I can’t stop going down this path. i feel like that would be easier but it’s not true i don’t want to die. i want to be a mom and a wife to a man that adores everything about me, the person. except i don’t know who i am other than what i am able to do. like when you list your personality, words come up like giving, and kind hearted, etc. Words that relate to how you treat other people. People have always said those things about me but that doesn’t make them like me enough to ask me to come hang out with them, or remember me 10-20 years after we graduated, or still think of me although they have moved on. If I take those labels away what will be left of me? I really don’t know. Even when it’s not about other people, like my being a creative writer, or an artist, or a good cook, or a smart shopper, those are still things that i do. what does it mean to be loved for just being. I don’t really understand it at all.



  159.  #159Erika on September 23, 2009 at 7:57 pm

    Gina,

    “The judge in me wakes right up and hears your judge saying that you are superior to me, and my judge wants to beat yours up.”

    I laughed out loud reading this 🙂

    Oh course I’m not superior to anyone. I feel equal to everyone, but when I said that, it triggered other people. Lol 🙂



  160.  #160Erika on September 23, 2009 at 8:02 pm

    I haven’t fully steeped with this, but …

    it feels like part of all this for me is what approach to take to patterns that are frustrating but difficult to express.

    For example, any pattern of omitting something with intent. I’m not projecting here, I don’t believe, because on an earlier thread that was essentially what she said. I don’t talk to you because [insert feelings and judgments].

    With men, I know that Rori teaches to walk away and occupy ourselves elsewhere. But I have felt unsatisfied with that because of my experience that if a conflict isn’t resolved where it is, it just moves somewhere else in my life.



  161.  #161Simply Shannon on September 23, 2009 at 8:16 pm

    Cookie: I’m paraphrasing words from a man I just met who answered pretty much this exact question for me today.

    What does it mean to be loved for just being? I don’t really understand it at all.

    Take a look at your children. When children are born, they do nothing for you. They are literally just “being”. And yet, the smell of them, the smiles on their faces, the way they watch their hands move in utter fascination… those are all things we LOVE about them. We love them just because they are human beings with a spirit inside of them and because they are able to experience joy and through them, we experience joy.

    I feel exactly as you do questioning what I am worth without the things I do. I got sent a messenger today in the form of a man I don’t even really known. To say I feel blown away would be an understatement. I don’t even have the words to tell you how grateful I am for getting that message. I hope it hits home to you the same way it hit home to me.



  162.  #162Callista on September 23, 2009 at 8:50 pm

    Wow, Simply Shannon – I feel blown away by that message too! And I don’t even have children but I can relate! Who doesn’t love babies?? So much makes sense now! Thanks so much for sharing…



  163.  #163Erika on September 23, 2009 at 9:28 pm

    Gina,

    Thanks for your words, btw. I feel enriched. Some of it definitely resonated too, and it felt good just to have someone make an attempt to understand.

    It’s not a desire to control, though. Lord knows I have enough going on without controlling anyone else. It’s only a desire to communicate. A desire to explore conflicts until both people come to a good-feeling place.

    A feeling of dissatisfaction with unresolved conflicts.

    A feeling of faith that every conflict can be resolved in a way that feels good to both people, if communication continues.



  164.  #164gina on September 23, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    Erika,
    when you write about “a pattern of intentional omission” that’s where I feel the judgment, and that’s what feels like an attempt to “control” or fix – it feels like a doctor diagnosing a patient. And that’s what I don’t like, because we don’t have that kind of relationship. I don’t come on here to hear anyone’s “professional opinion” except Rori’s. When I hear a fellow siren’s “professional opinion” of me or someone else, I feel angry. Cause I thought we were all on here to heal our SELVES – so when I sense that someone is on here trying to “heal” others against their will, I don’t like it, and I don’t care how “right” the diagnosis may be.
    i don’t like it.



  165.  #165gina on September 23, 2009 at 11:40 pm

    With my statement above, of the feelings that I’m sensing that have gone unsaid, I was hoping to convey that I feel interested in what I sense going on deep inside of you (is that a “you statement?”), and that it would feel like a relief to hear what’s going on in your gut and heart instead of your head. It would feel painfully wonderful to witness your process of dealing with uncomfortable feelings while respecting the process of whoever has triggered them. I was wanting to convey that I could learn so much more by your example than I can when I feel “preached to” because I shut off and feel angry, resentful, and judgmental.



  166.  #166alias girl on September 23, 2009 at 11:42 pm

    simply shannon that is so beautiful. i feel very appreciative you shared that. i feel it’s because we are love.

    and love loves love.

    fundamentally we are love. so there is nothing more to Do, really, in order for love to love itself.

    i feel like i either didn’t make sense OR could maybe send out a genuis alert.



  167.  #167Tracy on September 24, 2009 at 1:59 am

    cookie,
    I feel that you are really getting into your own feelings…Its sometimes hard to see,but i can see it from your post…i hope you feel the same way….it feels like a really huge step…..
    I have been labeled the Best friend,the kind and caring and thoughtful but never the woman who stole my heart away…it felt so frustrating….There is this guy who owes me money and i asked him if he’d repaid the rest of the guyz and he said that he had except for me….and i wondered why….i asked myself why would he just decide to leave mine and refund everyone else….
    I’ve also been called nice and often people feel they should refrain from talking trush because they think i am innocent…I used to think it was cool and men would love me more….because i was nice…..but it didn’t happen…
    I realized that the bad feeling i get when i am labelled nice…or friendly was because i never used to take care of myself…i was always going out of the way to show everyone else how nice and kind i was at my own expense…
    What has worked for me is focusing on loving myself more….The more the love for me grows the more i can share to the outside world…it has to start from the inside….i am learning that…
    I feel though the progress in whats going on with you….Much love and hugs



  168.  #168cookie on September 24, 2009 at 5:08 am

    So thanks everyone for responding. When I think of the baby analogy I guess I can understand more what it means. Perhaps that is why I want to have one so bad so I can someone else to give my love to. But honestly its past time for me to start drenching my own self in love. I keep wanting my man to love me and make it official and give me everything but the truth is he is doing and exactly what and how he wants. I feel so freaking envious that he attracts so much love from people and I can’t get a second



  169.  #169cookie on September 24, 2009 at 5:16 am

    Glance from (well that’s not really true). But honestly I do feel like it would take me a long time to find someone that I like and who loves me. And he could probably go out there and get another girl like its nothing. Its so annoying and it makes me feel so ugly. It brings up memories of an adolescent and teenager and having people literally treat me as if I had leprosy. I don’t remember anyone telling me I’m cute or pretty until much later on. I feel like so much of how we see ourselves is based on the



  170.  #170cookie on September 24, 2009 at 5:27 am

    Viewpoint of others. I mean even as I grew older and started to get more male attention there was still strong rejection, being with my friends guys would size us up n pick me last or not at all. How do u not carry that pain when even your own man won’t give you love and other men u meet say that u almost have everything they’re looking for in a woman. When I see myself I don’t see unattractiveness I see very desirable features on a brown backdrp. I really don’t know how to quiet those voices bcuz they’re



  171.  #171Simply Shannon on September 24, 2009 at 5:28 am

    Cookie: Believe me when I tell you that we all have those thoughts. Why do you think so many of us stay in crappy relationships? That is just our nasty voices. They aren’t real. I’m struggling with this one as well, so I understand what you’re saying and feel empathy. At this point, I figure I have nothing to lose by trying this differently and moving away from a bad relationship towards a new one. I feel scared to let go of what is familiar but I feel MORE scared of being miserable my whole life. I refuse to stay stuck. I may feel scared but I REFUSE to feel stuck.



  172.  #172cookie on September 24, 2009 at 5:47 am

    Internal and external full blast on stereo with surround sound and super bass. Its not really all and only about self esteem and acceptance. Do we really live in a bubble? Cuz I don’t I live in nyc where there are a million women and the ones the men are falling over don’t look a thing like me. Does anyone feel me out here?



  173.  #173Simply Shannon on September 24, 2009 at 6:29 am

    Cookie: I feel bad that maybe I minimized your feelings but saying what I did. That was not my intent at all. I personally have been struggling with feeling worthless and insecure a lot lately. My nasty voices have risen up in chorus these past few weeks. The solution for me has been circular dating. Just putting myself out there and talking to any joe-schmoe who wants to talk to me (even if I’m not attracted to them). And truthfully it’s opening my eyes to how many men really are out there (I’m not in NY either). Good men. Maybe not wrapped up in the external stuff that I would normally go for, but good men all the same.

    I feel rage towards my nasty voices for telling me I’m worthless. They are NOT real. White hot shaky rage for the tears I’ve spilled these past few days/weeks because I have believed those voices. I do NOT want to believe them anymore. I’m pissed and right now I feel happy to feed that anger because it’s pushing me out of my comfort zone. I want to scream at them “get the hell out of my head!!!” I do not want to live my life like this. I will not have mediocre love. I will not settle for crumbs. Damnit I’m PISSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Ahhhhh… I love my rage. I do. The NVs are silent. They don’t want my anger coming after them. Shhhhh…. Silence…



  174.  #174cookie on September 24, 2009 at 7:36 am

    Thanks SS for relating. No, I didn’t think you were trivializing my feelings at all, I was actually finishing my thoughts and your comment got posted before I posted my final words. I so relate to the Inner Voices thing and I feel the same rage about this. I have been trying to fight these voices for most of my life. It hurts so bad, so damn bad, and honestly I always thought that the man I’m with saw me, the whole me. But sometimes he will say things or when he got into the position where he had more in his life, he tried to find a different woman. Women that looked more to the standard of what his friends and probably he thinks is more attractive. Then he realized that it was all bullshit and came right back. But I don’t want a man to see me as less than other woman, I want a man that sees me as a prize. I don’t want a man that says to himself that other women want too much and ask for too much and good old loyal cookie doesn’t need much, she’s easy. I want a man that I don’t have to ask where the relationship is going because he is taking it there and it feels good to me. i want all those things. But the NVs tells me that it will never happen, to just forget it and have a baby now and live your life as a single mom, because the longer you wait the less likely your chances will be for having a family. Urghhhh now I’m pissed. Why are things like this? Why do some women have it so damn easy? From birth through death, people acknowledge them and their beauty. They don’t have to feel this way, they know they’re beautiful. Even if they are obsessed with a flaw, inside they know that one flaw is not making them less than and that even with it people will still dote on them. And other girls, have to fight to be accepted and loved, even fight themselves. I’m so tired of fighting.



  175.  #175gina on September 24, 2009 at 7:37 am

    Cookie, I feel like it’s my nasty voices that are the problem, not what my nasty voices are TELLING me is the problem. ie. it’s not actually my physical “flaws” that are keeping men away as much as it is my withdrawn disposition which comes as a result of me feeling awful about what the nasty voices are saying to me about me.That’s why I’m loving Rori’s tools – for the first time, I’m pretty convinced that HOW I’m seeing myself is what I want to change, not WHAT I’m seeing.



  176.  #176Aldonza on September 24, 2009 at 8:18 am

    @gina
    What would happen if you imagined a discussion with the nasty voices? Take some time to really hear them and respond as if you were having a conversation with someone else saying those things to you?

    It might be enlightening.



  177.  #177tinque on September 24, 2009 at 8:31 am

    cookie – There’s not much more I can add to this. SS said it very well. I was going to say that we are ALL born as love, pure unadulterated love. You don’t have to DO anything to get it. It already is. That’s what being loved for just being means.
    On some women having it so easy. I don’t know about that. it may SEEM that way, but I would venture to say that most of us have struggled and still struggle with all kinds of insecurities and fears.
    And to add to this, I don’t care how “beautiful” a woman may appear to most on the outside, if she has a bad attitude, it shows, and for me this makes her not pretty at all. Some people may disagree with me on the example I’m about to give, but there is an very popular actress very upfront and center in the media today. I hesitate to name her. The media has spun her out as being the “it” girl, a “hottie”. I find her very unattractive, hideous even. Her features may be proportioned well, but her what I perceive as meanness is what shines out for me, and all I see is arrogance. To me she’s ugly.
    But you know what, she’s this way because she’s insecure and afraid too.

    “i don’t really know how to ask for what i need because i don’t really know what i want in that area.”

    This where taking the time to be with yourself, playing with yourself, discovering for yourself what you like, what feels best to you is invaluable.
    And when you do find the right man, you will know how to show him what feels good, and together you will more that feels even better.
    xxoo



  178.  #178Simply Shannon on September 24, 2009 at 8:31 am

    I agree with Gina. It’s not my physical flaws. It’s how I feel about myself that’s holding me back and my fear of showing the real me (the person I really am inside – good and bad). Besides, look at all the beautiful women you know. Are ALL of them in great relationships where the man is rowing the boat? NO. How often do we see “beautiful” celebrities who are cheated on or dumped by men? All the time. It’s not the “wrapper”. It’s how we feel about ourselves that makes us beautiful or not. I’m slowly getting this about myself. I’m learning to accept that the size of my butt doesn’t measure who I AM. 😉 Ever notice how some women no matter what their size or what they look like can just glow? My goal right now is just to fake that glow until I really truly believe it. That whole “fake it til you make it” thing. I’m getting there. Circular dating is getting me there. Noticing the reality in me and around me instead of just focusing on what I don’t have right now.

    Okay, now I feel pumped up again. I still feel angry at my NVs and at myself for believing them. I wish I could peel off my insecurities like pulling a tissue out of the box and throwing it away. Thing is, I’m beginning to love my insecurities too. They are what makes me ME. I’m so DONE with apologizing for wanting to be loved and wanting to be touched. It’s not “needy” to want to be touched or to want to be with the one I love. It’s just not. And I’m so angry for letting someone make me feel that way. No, that’s not right, I’m angry that I allowed myself to believe it.

    Arghhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gosh bless America I feel soooooo pissed off. Vampire Scream time.



  179.  #179Simply Shannon on September 24, 2009 at 8:34 am

    Ha! Tinque: We were posting at the same time and saying the same things. Love ya girl!!



  180.  #180tinque on September 24, 2009 at 8:36 am

    SS -back at you…:)



  181.  #181Rori Raye on September 24, 2009 at 10:21 am

    Erika – Toxic Men is devoted to this — dealing with highly charged situations in what I call there “power speeches.” Walking away is an option. And WAY UNDERUSED by us. But, speaking the TRUTH is always where you want to go. Walking away is NOT a substitute for speaking the Truth in Feeling Messages. If a man cannot or will not hear you, you walk away. There’s a procedural thing that will help get this kind of thing going — the trick is to do it in baby-steps so we don’t fall back into old defensive patterns. Love, Rori



  182.  #182Vicki Kerns on September 24, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    Tinque/Jennifer, thanks for the responses. I guess the only one who can truly answer why he didn’t finish his sentence is him. And a few weeks ago I did tell him that for whatever reason he did it (didn’t demand an explanation from him), it was something I’d been thinking about, hadn’t felt good about, and was glad that he did back away because I’m at a place where I don’t want to settle for less than I want anymore, that before I go to bed with anyone again, I want to make sure we’re on the same page and we’re involved in a relationship. We’re supposed to “talk” but haven’t done it yet. I’ve been doing a lot of praying. And this morning on the way to work, I did a “speech” out loud while I was driving, and I’m thinking seriously of giving it this Saturday (our 1-year).

    He’s been making excuses for not calling lately and the next time it comes out of his mouth, I have a “Let me make this easy on you” speech. Saying we’ve come full circle in the last year, and how wonderful I felt last Nov. and Dec., and how I’ve felt more and more disconnected over the last few months and how I now feel like we are back where we started, and how crummy and unhappy I’ve felt. And using some of Rori’s words like, “I’m really glad you pulled away because it’s given me a lot of time to think and decide what I want for my future and if you really are the man I want. And I know you’re not in a place to commit to a relationship right now. Last January when we talked through things, you said that you thought we could have something really special down the road. I don’t know if you really meant that or if it was said as a way of letting me down easy. Either way, I’ve decided not to hold onto that anymore, and I’m setting you, and myself, free from that remark. I want to thank you for helping me to realize that I still can feel like a very sexual and sensual woman after all these years. And I’ve decided the best thing for me right now, is to walk away from this “friendship” because it is too difficult for me to just be your friend because of my deep feelings for you. I hope you can find what you’re looking for and are happy. And this is where I say good-bye.” Something along those lines.

    As I was giving myself that speech this morning, it felt very “freeing” and I haven’t felt that good in a long time.



  183.  #183Rori Raye on September 24, 2009 at 7:39 pm

    Vicki – most excellent! After you do this…you will be amazed at the high quality of men who show up around you suddenly. Love, Rori



  184.  #184T.R. on September 24, 2009 at 7:45 pm

    I over function by over thinking. But, what I have learned in the past year is to not over function by over doing. I am with a man that I have been seeing for several months. Granted, there are other areas that I am hoping to move through, like him being in his own emotional trap. But what I have not done is “over nurture”. He calls me several times a day, stops by occasionally, and drove to my house the other day to bring me medicine. He has made the comment a few times that I have never made him dinner yet. I respond by saying that “I feel like we are not at that point in our relationship. It would feel great to move in that direction.” We have discussed that I would like to move forward and he is not ready. My response to wanting me to make dinner is in respect to my true feelings for myself. I am willing to make dinner for someone who is not only in love with me, but also is making similar efforts on my behalf.
    Leaning back really does work!



  185.  #185Daria on September 25, 2009 at 1:07 am

    Yay T. R. guys ask me that to and I kind of avoid it, or just don’t answer or laugh, or say I don’t know what to say.

    Because I don’t know how to say NO yet to that in a way that isn’t defensive…



  186.  #186Cassandra on October 15, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    I just found this post and as usual…it felt like this is exactly where I am supposed to be right now. Thanks again Rori! I love what you said about ‘He’s inspired when I take care of myself’. I never ever thought of a relationship in that way but it does make so much sense. I am trying to focus on doing exactly that…taking care of myself. For several days I was doing really great and I felt strong and free and good overall. Charles has been calling pretty much daily which I NEVER THOUGHT would happen but it does and is and when he does – I still feel so happy to hear from him. He has been asking me to go and do fun stuff and as you all know before I moved out he did not ask me to do anything together for many many painful months. I feel so happy when he calls and asks me to hang out or just calls in general. I know that part is a part of my stranger…I am not totally clear yet which part that is but I am working on that. Toxic Men has really helped me so much and I am listening to it over and over and over and over. I want to change my entire thought process with regard to men, relationships, marriage, love etc. I want to stop giving…..just completely STOP. I am feeling it so hard to not answer his calls and the 2 stories at the very end of T.M. are so insipring to me and I feel myself feeling that hope that things could be right again. I KNOW that this is my stranger because HE Is not good for me. Period. There is no ‘well maybe’. He is simply toxic for me. I want to get to where I can walk away with NO hurt and pain in my heart over losing him and our relationship but I don’t feel that in my heart…what I DO feel is still wanting him…still wanting things to work out with us….still desiring what was supposed to be. I feel ashamed to say that and ashamed to feel that way.



  187.  #187Vicki Kerns on October 15, 2009 at 4:24 pm

    Here’s one I’m not sure how to handle in the speech I’m writing. Scenario: his ex-girlfriend works at our Ren Fest. She’s the one who used him (he did a lot of work helping at her shop in the past and in exchange, she let him keep his props in the back of her shop, etc.), dumped him, called him by her then boyfriend/now husband’s name last year when he was helping her close up her shop for the winter, married this guy (and didn’t tell him). And what he has told me several times during this last year was that he wasn’t going to help her, he’d keep his stuff somewhere else, etc. I knew it hurt him.

    So here comes faire this year. The first weekend, he was so very helpful to me, brought me a gift, helped us put a shadecloth up over the stage, came back the next morning and throughout the day to see if we needed anything. The 2nd weekend of faire, her elderly mom took a turn and passed away. She asked him if he’d help watch the shop for her that weekend. He expressed to me that he really didn’t want to but he’d do it this time.

    Well, now it’s coming up on the 7th weekend, and from what I’ve seen when I walk by there is that he’s in her shop a whole lot of the time and has been the last few weekends. If he sees me, I just turn my head and walk on, but he will come backstage and talk to me, saying things like, “Oh, she had a migraine, or my back hurt and I just wanted to stand, blahdy, blahdy, blahdy.” I’ve just wanted to scream, “Don’t give me your lame-ass excuses. You’re as giddy as a schoolgirl to be back on good terms with her again.” Oh, and as for me, he’s come backstage a few times to chitty-chat, or get his sleeve tied, or some other little tidbit. No more helping, hasn’t asked if we’ve needed anything. I told him a couple of weeks ago that I’d like to maybe get a bite to eat after faire one night, so we could talk. He didn’t acknowledge that.

    He usually calls me to fill me in on the escapades of his 20-year-old son who’s still living with him while he goes to school (that’s his reason why he can’t date right now). But I’m betting dollars to donuts that if that woman was single and wanted him back, he’d beat a hot path past that excuse too. His phone calls had been getting fewer anyway, but he’s called me once in 4 weeks. I guess he’s telling all his troubles to her now on the weekends. But hey, when this weekend is over and she’s back home sleeping with her new husband, who’s going to keep him warm and talk to him. It’s not going to be me, I can tell you that.

    That’s my question. I’d like to bring up about feeling dropped like a hot potato when she came calling again, but I don’t want to come off as a jealous bitch. But I would like to let him know that this was just the frosting on the cake as far as I’m concerned.

    Any suggestions on feeling messages I can create?



  188.  #188T.R. on October 15, 2009 at 4:34 pm

    Vicki,

    I had gone through something kind of similar when my boyfriend and I started dating. I was honest with him and told him that I felt disrespected. I also told him, nicely, that I would not allow myself to be treated this way and that I was prepared to walk away if I was not being treated the way that feels good to me. I did not say “you” in the conversation because that would sound accusatory. It turned out wonderfully. My boyfriend apologized and immediately changed the behavior that I did not like.



  189.  #189miss. jackson on October 20, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    I also like doing things for men, sometime when they didnt deserved it. How can i fix that?



  190.  #190Rori Raye on October 20, 2009 at 10:30 pm

    Welcome miss. jackson, and you’ve answered your own question. If you want to fix it…that means you’re telling us this has not worked for you…is that right? So – stop. Just STOP doing things for men. Period. Once you’ve learned to RECEIVE – which is the missing piece for you…then you an see how to express yourself with some giving BACK. Love, Rori



  191.  #191Vicki Kerns on October 21, 2009 at 7:58 am

    Well ladies, this morning I severed the ties with my Ren Fest friend. I had been waiting until faire was over so as not to cause any drama, but what I read on his Facebook this morning was the final catalyst to do what I’ve needed to do for a long time. He posted that he’d met someone last weekend & really enjoyed the time he spent with her, and that it was good to be single. Final knife through the heart? Yes, pretty much. I’d been working on a draft of a letter, cleaned it up & e-mailed it this morning. I, in a nice way, told him the things that have been hurting my heart for a long time. I wasn’t nasty (OK, one nasty remark that I acknowledged), but it was a very non-dramatic letter and from the heart. And I used a lot of “feeling” words. I basically said that I felt taken advantage of, disrespected, and used & that while I realize he had never made me promises of any kind, I did expect more from someone who professed to be such a wonderful friend. I also said that I believe this whole experience was God’s way of kicking me in the butt so that I become the stronger and wonderful woman that I know I am & that I will not put up with such treatment ever again. I thanked him for the wonderful times and told him I hope he finds happiness, but that because of my feelings, I feel that it’s best for me to sever the friendship and move on. I had a good cry and will probably have a few more before it’s done, but I feel armed with the great tools from Rori and support from wonderful women like you and I know I’ll be fine. I am now free to totally concentrate on me. I am surrounded by supportive family and real friends and I realize that I had to go through this experience with someone I felt so strongly about to wake me up and learn to love me. Thanks ladies



  192.  #192Jennifer F on October 21, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    Vicki,
    I read your post, and my heart “felt” for you. I have recently myself dealt with reading about my “interest”.. (I am no longer calling him my man).. asking about another girl and if she was single on facebook. It is painful to find out so seperately, so cold… non chalantly, that their interest has wandered. I am encouraged by your postivie future and outlook. You go girl!!!

    I also had a bit of a break through. I have always kept my “crying emotions” to myself. I prided myself on not tearing up during a commerical, or a touching tv show, and especially would NEVER let a guy see me cry, especially over him. I might slightly tear up, and they would see me struggling to keep it together, but I would never give them the “satisfaction” of actually seeming me break down. Why? Because I thought it made me look weak. NOW.. that I have read Rori and she has pointed out that Men are actually wanting to see the vulnerable sides of us I took a brave step last night.
    One of my dear friend’s grandmother had a severe heart attack, and sadly was put on life support, and the family was told that she would be a vegtable, and the best thing was to pull the plug. So, they made the heart retching decision, and cut the support, and amazingly enough, this 80 something woman is still holding on. My heart breaks for the family because no one should lose their grandmother this way, but also they were hoping for closure and now they just have to wait for her to leave and wonder why she is still holding on.

    Needless to say.. I was very emotional about this and Mr. In/Out (that’s what I will call him, because he can’t seem to make up his mind to go or to stay) had asked me why I seemed down over text. I told him, and he asked if I needed a friend and offered to come over. I told him no, that was nice but I would be okay, and then he said he wanted to come over anyway. So, I let him. When he got there we started to talk about what my friend’s family was going through… and I was able to allow myself to cry in front of him. It was SUCH A RELIEF! In fact, I started crying to quite a bit, so much that I realized I was needing this emotional release. He was standing across the room from me, and then all of a sudden, he came across and gave me this really big hug, and then began to share about some family and friend losses that he had endured himself. We then decided to cheer up, and put in a movie to watch. We actually ended up talking through the whole movie, him holding my hand, and we stayed up till 1:30am.. talking about spirtual things and beliefs. It was so nice to let my guard down in a emotional way, and to have him hold my hand for hours. I got a hug goodbye when he left to go home.. nothing more.. but it still felt nice. He is coming over tonight to watch Nip/Tuck, it will be good to spend time with him again. I now see this man as practice, and I will continue to practice my emotions on him till I get it right! ha ha



  193.  #193tinque on October 21, 2009 at 1:38 pm

    That’s SO beautiful Jennifer F. I applaud you in allowing the authentic you to come out and play or weep in this case. This is true strength, not the weakness you once thought. YAY you…
    xxoo



  194.  #194Vicki Kerns on October 21, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    Thanks, Jennifer. Even though I hate to see so many women going through the same types of “relationships” (imaginary or real), it’s also comforting to not feel alone. I have loved this man for so long, but I can no longer go through the hot/cold, push me/pull me ways that he has. Honestly, from reading and listening to so much from Rori, I realize that this man cannot “dance.” Ever since his ex-wife (11 years ago) cheated on him, he has never re-married and from what I gather has had quite a lot of girlfriends. And from seeing just a couple of his ex’s, I see his tendency is to look for the same type of woman. And I am not that way. I would never willing hurt a man I cared about (of course right now if I had a ball-peen hammer I’d be tempted to whack him upside his pointy head). I believe he, at one time last fall, really cared about me enough to draw me close. We had such a wonderful time, until sex got in the way. Then he back-pedaled like a schoolboy. I should have severed the ties right then, but that was “pre-Rori” and I did not have the skills nor the strength to do that.

    Will he ever be able to dance? I don’t know, but I’m done sticking around waiting to find out. At this point, my life is much better and more peaceful without him in it. I know he wants to keep my friendship, but we don’t always get what we want. And from his disrespect and use of me, he doesn’t deserve it, and I’m also not willing at this time to give it. I will truly miss his friendship because I’ve never known another man that I have so much in common with, can laugh completely freely about anything with, or have felt such companionship with. But I love him too much to just be his friend. I cannot separate the two. Maybe some day when a wonderful man who deserves me comes into my life, I might be able to put the past away.

    And who knows, at some point, he might pass my way again. It’s happened twice; third time’s a charm, they say. But at this point in time, neither one of us is strong enough (especially me) or at a point where a relationship would work. And as much as I’ve loved him, and I know he’s had a deep affection for me, it’s not love for him. It may not ever be, and I’m not waiting any more.

    Am I grieving? Yes. It’s the end of a long-held dream for me, but one I’ve felt coming for a long time, but I’ve been a hopeless romantic and dreamer. And it’s OK to be romantic and dream, but you also have to stay grounded and not lose yourself, as I have. My heart aches and I feel so let down and betrayed, especially by someone who professed to be such a wonderful friend. Maybe this had to happen, from someone I felt so deeply for, to finally make me see that I really have to love myself, completely as I am, before I can let anyone close again. I will stop tamping down my emotions, I will be strong and stand up for myself, and above all else, I will not stand idly by and accept “unacceptable” behavior from any man.



  195.  #195Heather on October 29, 2009 at 9:32 pm

    Hi all, well I as usual have scewed up another one of my relationships. I have just bought the modern sirin and toxic men. I hope this will help my situation. This guy was a good friend of mine and we fell in love with eachother an didnt plan on it. It was great in the begining. He recently moved to San Francisco for a job. Thats about 2 hrs from me. We hadnt seen eachother in 3mo. He does have a daughter that he is trying to build a relationship with. He is also a recovering alcoholic. We were supportive of eachother, he helped me with my kids, he was just great. Well we got into an arguement a few nights ago. He was so cold. He told me that I was being smothering and that he needs a break. He told me that he needs to straighten his life out and doesnt want any bad feelings or resentment towards me. Thats why he needs a break. He is still in communication with my eldest son. My kids love him. I am tryingt o focus on me right now. I have not contacted him at all since this conversation. I am respecting his wishes. I did do alot for him though. I think its time for me. I think that he should chase me. I would love input on this everyone. thanks, Heather



  196.  #196Rori Raye on October 30, 2009 at 1:40 am

    Heather, tell us more. What do you think this “smothering” thing is about – how do you suppose he got that feeling and backed away? Give us some details, and we’ll be able to help you more. Love, Rori



  197.  #197Vicki Kerns on October 30, 2009 at 10:25 am

    Heather, my heart goes out to you. I, too, fell in love with a friend. After going out with him for 2 months, we had sex, he did an about-face, and long story short, I severed our friendship about a week ago. Going from friends to something more special is a tricky one at best. Do you risk losing a friendship for more? Too late for me, I fell head over heels and cannot just be his friend anymore.

    Maybe it depends on the type of argument you got into a few nights ago. And if he’s cold after one argument and saying things like he needs to get his life together, I think that might be a very good sign that it’s just that. I think you are headed in the right direction by focusing on you and not contacting him. It’s terrible when children are involved, but think of it this way: if he indeed does need to get his life together, it won’t happen overnight, he may have his ups and downs for a long period of time, and if you’re doing a lot for him, you will just be enabling him. He’ll come to depend on it and could very well take advantage of it. If he’s in an “I need a break” mode and is a recovering alcoholic, he also shouldn’t be focusing on a relationship either, he should focus on himself and his kids.

    If you continue your relationship with him, in the shape he’s in right now, he could be bouncing in and out of your life, hot, cold, hot, cold, and not only is that terrible for you, it’s also terrible for your own children, who have already come to love him.

    Believe me, I know how hard it is when you fall for a friend. My heart is breaking and more than anything, I miss his friendship, talking to him, our laughter. But I can’t go there right now.

    God bless you and your kids. Listen to your Rori tools and concentrate on yourself.



  198.  #198Heather on October 31, 2009 at 1:42 pm

    Thank you Rori and Vicki, I wish you luck Vicki. Let me go into more detail about my situation. I was in a 10yr abusive realtionship and got out almost 3yrs ago. I will call my bf “J”. J I had met online, he was in a realtionship and I was as well this was 2008. We hit it off as friends and that all we ever thought we would have. We lost touch due to that fact that he went to rehab. I never judged him I fully supported him. He said that he fell in love with me because I was always there, never judged him, supported him and always his friend. He finally moved up here with me and it was wonderful. We were honest and up front with eachother all the time. He always backed me up with my kids. It was beyond amazing! Everything I ever wanted except he didnt have a job. But he helped with his unemployment money, bought food, helped my kids with there homework, did the laundry, cooked dinner, ect. He finally got a job about 2 hrs from me. As time went on, 1mo, then 2 mo and then 3mo. He said that his daughter(who is 5yrs) can’t handle him leaving. I have been the good girl and supportive, understanding and it works but then it doesnt. If I say anything that is remoatly demanding he gets defensive. This last fight was about how we were talking and he logged of (I thought) but he was actually booted or lost his network. He told me that he was tired of always being accused of things that he didnt do or that he it not doing. Then he said that he needs a break. He was very cold and with drawn. He had lost his job about 1mo prior and was more stressed out. The weird thing is that just a few days prior he was fine. He kept telling me that he wanted to come back, but it never happened. It was not a good feeling.

    I know my issues are abandonment. 90% of the guys in my past have broken up with me. I know I have issues to work on and I did get your program in the mail. Its amazing. I have realized so much. I do still love this man and I miss him. I know that I am not goin to wait at the dock for his ship to come back in to pick me up. I have my own vessel, I dont need his even though I want his. So question, J and I have and sex and its beyond amazing. Now that we have had sex and say he does come back. I was listeing to that mentally teasing a man drives them crazy. Does that still work even though J and I have already been intimate? Also I know I control my own body but would it be a good idea to still have sex with him or not?

    PS Vicki, if you ever need to talk I am here to I love to listen and help ppl if I can. I wish you ever possible happiness in the world and nver forget we are beautiful!

    thanks Heather



  199.  #199Rori Raye on October 31, 2009 at 4:40 pm

    Heather – what you’re asking here is about strategy and games, and that’s not what you want to be about. As you boost your own self-esteem, your own love of yourself…better men will start to show up. That’s just the way it works. Your job is to learn to be yourself, use Feeling Messages instead of subtly making a man “wrong” because it’s too difficult for you to express yourself authentically. Lot of things to do, Tools to use that will make a huge difference for you right away. Love, Rori



  200.  #200Heather on October 31, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    Thanks Rori, So he is a toxic man right? Or is he difficult?
    I am working on myself and I do understand that I need to just be myself and not to settle. There goes my run-on sentences. I am not waiting for him though, I will tell you that. I am starting to feel better and when I start to feel lonely I hug my stranger. I feel so much better when I do that. I will keep you informed about me progress.

    thanks Heather



  201.  #201Rori Raye on October 31, 2009 at 9:44 pm

    Go Heather! Love, Rori



  202.  #202Heather on November 3, 2009 at 9:46 pm

    Ok, total update! So I have been giving “J” space and the other day I was online and through IM he buzzed me. I said Hi he replied “Sorry, I didn’t mean to do that” I said ok, whats up? he said “Nothing” I said ok and closed the window.

    I think that I shouldn’t have asked him whats up. Other then that I am pretty proud of myself. What do you guys think?

    Also I actually have a date with this other guy tomorrow. Wow! I notice that since I have been using both “Toxic Men” and “Modern Siren” guys have been smiling at me more then they usto. CRAZY! I am keeping my cool.

    To Rori, while I was listening to Heather Dawn about “self-pleasure” you know how do you want to be touched it was very emotional for me. I cried through the whole thing. I think I know why. “J” always heard how I liked to be touched. He would always touch my face and tell me he loves me. I really miss that. I also think that I have this separation issue. I am dealing with it. When we are together it’s great but when he would leave I felt panic inside. I do love him but I will use these tools for tomorrow. I stated my boundaries upfront with this guy I’m going out with tomorrow, he agrees. I will keep you updated.

    What do you think of everything so far? I would love some input from all.

    Thanks Heather



  203.  #203Mike on January 8, 2010 at 10:29 am

    Rori,

    As a guy, I’d like to add a man’s perspective. I think this post is complete BS.

    It is NOT all about men giving and women receiving, although I agree that it shouldn’t be all one sided. Women should not give up any more than the man.

    In a perfect world it should be 50/50…but we all know that this world isn’t perfect.

    With that said, I think. Women want equality in everything today…except dating.

    Women want equal rights, equal job positions, equal pay, etc. However in the dating world, women want the man to bear ALL of the risk …asking them out, risk of rejection, financial risk of paying for everything (because “thats just the way it’s always been), etc. From a man’s perspective, this is wrong and men deep down resent this. There are some guys who because they were taught up by their mothers to be “good husbands, good providers” and will act this way, but again, have a deep down resentment for this. Does a woman want a daddy or does she want a equal partner and lover?

    I surmise that if things were TRULY equal and both shared EQUALLY in the dating experience, things would be much better. It would lead to a better selection of a mate based on the IMPORTANT THINGS, it would level playing field, not confuse the woman, and ultimately this would lead to less cases of divorce.

    It’s funny…some women can’t conceive of paying for a man’s meal at a restaurant, Yet at the same time she’d rather spend MORE preparing a meal at home for him. But in the case of divorce, how many women have NO PROBLEM taking half of the money and assets. Why?

    The reason that this silly phenomena happens is because of dating behavior that stems back to a very long time ago. Problem is…the world has changed, but “dating” has not changed.

    Back in the 50’s and before, many women didn’t even drive a car…(My mom was one of them) .they didn’t work, they weren’t as educated as men, and not long before that, women didn’t even have a right to vote. It made sense for the man to “GIVE” more in those times.
    Women got married, had children, and kept a house. They kept their man happy and many, worked hard to stay in their relationship. They took their marriage vows seriously.

    Today, women hold equal job positions, statistically hold higher degrees of education and in general have more education than men, and despite SOME data, women even have equal pay to men. The only reason why “Pay” still shows in some statistical data as “inequal” is because the statisticians factor in “part time” work along with full time employment.

    Purpose of Dating = Mate Selection.
    Another word for Mating = Sex.

    So if a man “dates” a woman and takes her out, pays for her dinner, drinks, flowers, showers her with gifts, etc….he is hoping she will select HIM to MATE and have sex with.

    When a woman excepts financial benefits from a man in exchange for mating/sex, there is another word for this…it’s called PROSTITUTION. So your theory of receiving gifts is not a healthy attitude.
    It should be EQUAL giving and receiving.

    Don’t get me wrong I WANT EQUALITY…I LOVE WOMEN and am not chauvinistic. I think that there are many great talented women out there, and like that things are more equal today.

    However if women want this one-sided way of dating, I propose women to give back their driver’s licenses, give up their rights to vote, quit using up all of the scholarship money so that men can become better educated, and women leave the workforce. Heck…..if they left the workforce, we could solve the 10% unemployment rate overnight!!

    Best of luck to all



  204.  #204Rori Raye on January 11, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    Mike, Welcome, love having a man here…and you have clearly not read all of my work. This is a blog for women. We’re working to gain confidence, self-esteem, and reclaim power we tend to give over to you men so easily in a relationship. We’re not looking to take you for a ride…we want to marry you and make you happy and let you make us happy. If you’ve never noticed how women get attached to you so quickly and start chasing you…then you’re being untruthful. If you’re only meeting women who have the shallow interests and goals you mention here – you’re meeting the wrong women. Also – you don’t sound married or in a relationship – so you could probably use some help, here, too. Even men in the “seduction” community realize and are gearing in the direction of becoming more personally authoritative with women – and in being more of a knight in shining armor in order to provide ROMANCE. Which is the word you’re not getting here. Without romance, you men get nothing much of value…you just get another buddy dressed as a woman. Is that what you really want? Please stick around, if you’d like to interact, we’d be happy…but men are different from women – and if you’re not willing to understand what that difference feels like, what it feels like to be a woman that’s different from the way you feel…we won’t get anywhere together. Sincerely, Rori



  205.  #205Melissa on March 30, 2010 at 7:11 pm

    Hi All, I am in desperate need of any advice or help you can offer me. I have ordered the Rori Raye Reconnect Your Relationship (but to tell you the truth the package can’t arrive quick enough). I am in a relationship which is struggling big time, have become like complete strangers sharing a house, bed etc. He won’t talk and I have become the one who nags and over-works. I do all of the housework on my own, feel constantly lonely and know that I am pushing him away by the things I do. I am desperate to make things better but I am exhausted. I am finding myself getting more and more angry, hurt and resentful towards him. Please help!



  206.  #206Melissa on March 30, 2010 at 7:14 pm

    Hi, Not sure if my post worked or not, I just need help asap with my 5 yr relationship. It’s struggling to the point it may just be too late to do anything. I’m controlling and over-work and I know I’m pushing him away, help me stop! Please…



  207.  #207Rori Raye on March 30, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    Melissa, Welcome…and I can help you here quickly. Read everything you can here, and while Reconnect is arriving – download the ebook right now – it has the “basics” in it – and it will help you immediately stop overfunctioning, get you talking with your man in a MUCH more effective way (stick to the 4 rules, learn to use Feeling Messages). The quickest thing you can do is to stop nagging, stop leaning forward, and focus on you!! We’ll help you. Love, Rori



  208.  #208Melissa on March 31, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    Hi Rori, I have now downloaded and printed the ebook, took it home and read as much of it as I possibly could before he came home. I even noticed after making 1 small change, things are slightly improving. I can only imagine after making more changes things are going to get better. I stopped leaning forward, and took a breath when he does something that annoys me – to stop the nagging that I’ve become so accustomed to! I’m really enjoying reading the book and using the tools to make things better. I will keep you all up to date on my journey! From a very excited and hopeful reader! Thanks 🙂



  209.  #209Daria on March 31, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    Yay Melissa!!



  210.  #210Melissa on March 31, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    Thanks Daria, I was so tired of trying things my way, clearly they were not working. I’m very excited to be trying things a new way and not having a fight in my head all the time!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂



  211.  #211Ingrid on April 13, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    I have always been an “over-functioner” in my life, and with my husband. His mom was super-bionic woman…lol did everything! And therefore my h expected me to be the same. Work full-time, keep a perfect home, cook meals every night, pick up after him and everyone, etc., etc., and keep his night-owl hours too. Wheww. As a result of my years of trying to be this way, I broke down several years ago and up and quit my job. Saying “I cannot do this anymore”. I became a stay at home mom and love it. I still though seem to be the giving one, and my husband the receiving one. I don’t like this pattern and wish it were the other way around completely. Lately though, I am doing a little experimenting with pulling back slightly, like not making lunches. Family can make their own. I’m not a short order cook. I need to do things to nurture ME for once. I do notice a little since I haven’t been doing as much for h, he has done slightly more for me than usual. Good sign……I’ll never forget a line that our former Pope John Paul II said in one of his encyclicals…….”a man loves, a woman responds”. This is crucial I believe for man/woman relationships to be working. I did it all wrong for so long. I caught my man, but I feel I’ve always loved him more than he loves me. Is it possible to reverse this after years and years of a pattern? I’m giving it a try. Pulling back, leaning back, trying not to regulate everything….lol This may give my husband also the feelings of being more masculine which he needs. He said to me once “why can’t you be more submissive”? hummmmm

    I love this thread~ and hearing everyone’s responses.



  212.  #212Ingrid on April 13, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    When I was very upset with my h once last week, I attempted to speak to him in “feeling messages”. It didn’t seem to work Rori. He said “oh you’re feeling this you’re feeling that”……what else are you “FEELING”? like mimicking me……..



  213.  #213Ingrid on April 13, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    Hi Heather:

    Just my 2 cents here on the issue with “J”. If a man says they feel smothered and “need space” or “need to take a break”, I would never contact them again. GIVE him his space. Sounds to me like he is not committment material, at least not right now. Date other men, have fun, enjoy your singlehood. I would try to forget about him. If he returns, and you’re ready to make another go, go for it. But he clearly is not ready now. That’s what it sounds to me. That’s also great you ordered 2 of Rori’s programs! Just remember a good man, will not abandon you. They’ll want to cherish you forever! One who says “I need a break” doesn’t deserve YOU and how wonderful you are!!!!

    Good Luck~!

    Ingrid~



  214.  #214Ingrid on April 13, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    Melissa:
    Do you want to get married to the man you’ve been in a 5-yr relationship with? If so, tell him so. Tell him you want to set a date right now. If he says he’s “not ready” I would drop him like a hot potato. This would be your answer. He does not want to marry you. You are not doing anything wrong. This is an awful long time to wait around. Personally I would never date for over 2 years without setting a date for marriage. This is a waste of your time, energy, love, and your beautiful life.



  215.  #215Daria on April 13, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    Ingrid – that happened to me at first (and a bunch of other women), because the men were used to being on a defense and they still had their guard up.

    Keep sharing them make sure the feeling messages real feelings not thoughts, are in no way blaming him or said in an attacking tone.

    Also helps to start with sharing in non tense situations… like… the air feels warm today. i feel hungry. i feel so good with you right now. oh i feel a bit sad…



  216.  #216Melissa on April 14, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    Ingrid: I do want to marry him, well I believe I do (sometimes when things are bad between us I wonder haha). However, I’m comfortable where we are, we know we want to marry each other one day and that’s ok with me. I’m just concerntrating at the moment on making things better, with me stopping the nagging and stepping back. Although I must admit I feel a bit lost at the moment (not used to stopping and stepping back). I am of the understanding that once I feel I have done all I can e.g. stop nagging, using feeling words, not controlling outcomes etc, that it will be ok again. And if I don’t find that it is what I want, I’m happy to take the step and end things. I don’t know maybe i am looking at things entirely wrong :\. Anyway, any suggestions or feedback is welcomed. Thanks



  217.  #217Ingrid on April 14, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    Hi Melissa:

    Dr. Laura would say “OK then”, if you’re fine the way things are not being married, then you can be comfortable not being married to Mr. Right ever.” “Just accept the fact that you won’t be married”. Just heard a caller recently ask her this very question. A 5-yr. relationship where the gal wanted marriage, and the guy said he didn’t want to, or made up some excuse why it wasn’t the right time, or necessary or whatever. Dr. Laura also told the caller “why should he marry you, why buy the cow if you can the milk free.” Just something to think about.

    Good Luck~



  218.  #218Melissa on April 14, 2010 at 11:15 pm

    Ingrid, not sure who Dr. Laura is? Anyway, I am young and we have had a turbulent 5 years together, some on and off and have been through alot together. I don’t feel the need to push for marriage when we are still trying to make things better. I do not want to find myself married, wishing I hadn’t had taken that step because it’s something everyone expects of you. I am doing what feels right for me, but I don’t think asking for him to set a date to marry me, is really leaning back. it’s leaning forward and not in a good way. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it would be stupid of me to marry someone who is only marrying me because I pressured him into it. I don’t want that life for him or myself. Marriage is on the cards, has been for a while, I know there is an engagement ring in the safe but I’m not eager to jump into that right away. My issues aren’t with him not marrying me, it’s about trying to make the relationship wonderful and fufilling again so we can then look at marriage.



  219.  #219Melissa on April 15, 2010 at 12:18 am

    Does anyone think that I am wasting my time with my bf of 5 years because he hasn’t asked me to marry him? Thanks, 🙂



  220.  #220Ingrid on April 15, 2010 at 8:07 am

    Hi Melissa!

    I understand what you say above. Only YOU and no one else can tell you that. You know deep in your heart what you feel. By your comment above, it seems to me you don’t feel you are wasting your time at all, being with him for 5 years and not married yet. WHY is your relationship turbulent if you do not mind me asking? Do you live together? I know myself, if I was in love with a man, for probably a year, I would want to be married. I would want the security of knowing I am his WIFE, and he my HUSBAND. To me, this offers security and safety. Although I can respect others’ views too. Some feel it’s only “a piece of paper”. That’s fine, that’s their view. My brother and his girlfriend were together un-married for 17 years. They have now been married for 5, and they are totally happy. People are different. “To thine ownself be true”

    Melissa: So No, I don’t feel you’re wasting your time with your love, if you don’t, just thought I’d share Dr. Laura’s advice for the gal who called in with a situation similar to yours.

    P.S. Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a therapist who is on the radio and has a call-in counseling program. She has also written a few books, one of which is called “The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands”. I think she gives excellent advice although she can be kinda harsh and seemingly un-compassionate sometimes. She tells it like it is though.

    Here’s her website.

    http://www.drlaura.com/main/



  221.  #221Simply Shannon on April 15, 2010 at 8:51 am

    Ingrid: This part:
    I know myself, if I was in love with a man, for probably a year, I would want to be married. I would want the security of knowing I am his WIFE, and he my HUSBAND. To me, this offers security and safety. Although I can respect others’ views too. Some feel it’s only “a piece of paper”. That’s fine, that’s their view.

    This is EXACTLY what it means to use feeling messages. You are talking strictly about you!! Yeah!!! I felt excited reading that and hearing you talk in feeling messages!!! Woohoo!!

    Melissa: Does YOU think that you am wasting your time with your bf of 5 years because he hasn’t asked you to marry him?

    If I’m asking myself this question, it’s probably because *I* feel stuck. And possibly bored. Five years is a long time with no commitment. Either piss or get off the pot. I feel curious to know your reasons for not wanting the commitment. He may not want to be committed, but it kinda sounds like you don’t either. I’m with Ingrid. If I was with a man for a year and I wasn’t wanting commitment, I might be wondering if I had the right man. Not for him to commit but if I really wanted that man. Ya know?



  222.  #222Melissa on April 15, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    Hi Ingrid, sorry if my reply sounded defensive (didn’t intend for it to). We do live together, have for about 3 1/2 years now. Turbulent in the sense that it’s been on and off, but we seem to keep coming back to each other. I am determined to make this work, if we are going to keep coming back to each other. I’m not thinking about marriage, I wouldn’t have ordered “Reconnect your Relationship” if I was ready for marriage – to me that’s just simple and smart. Ingrid: your right I probably do feel “stuck” in a way. However, getting married is not going to fix our problems. I feel stuck and I ordered this program to make me have a look at the relationship try to fix the things that I do to damage it and have another look at it to make sure that it is something I want. Personally, after one year, I was still getting to know my bf and marriage wasn’t even a thought it my head at that stage. I was only 20 when I met him, but that’s just me. And maybe marriage isn’t as important to me as it is to others. A simple committment is enough. Maybe I am wondering if i have the right man, if it hasn’t worked in the previous 5 years, is it going to get any better. I know that most of the problems have been caused by my “over-functioning” and making some small changes has seen an improve. I am feeling anxious now because instead of trying to improve my relationship when it needs help I am focusing on why he hasn’t asked me to marry him. I am not insecure I am strong and proud however, I wouldn’t want him to ask me until he felt the time was right, and at the moment it doesn’t for the both of us. Hopefully this program can improve things between us. I don’t believe being his WIFE or him being my HUSBAND is going to offer me safety and security (but that’s just me). I know we are committed to each other and I know he has my back. Things aren’t always perfect but when they are good they are really good. It’s the bad parts I am working on. I will check out the website, thanks.



  223.  #223Jackie on April 15, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    Hi everyone. Very robust conversation going on here that feels good and productive.

    None of us know for sure what the future will hold. I could change perspectives completely tomorrow, but for now…. Different people have different goals in life. I’m listening to Committment Blueprint right now and for a bit in the early portions of the program I felt concerned because I knew “marriage” wasn’t what I was looking for, so was wondering if this the wrong program for me. I kept going because I felt the information/tools were useful regardless of the fact that I had a different desired outcome for my timeline than marriage. Then- Rorie changed up the words and referred to it as that happy gushy intimate cozy warm happily ever after place. Those weren’t the exact words, but it clicked for me…ok doesn’t have to be “marriage” its whatever your version of intentional committment is.

    For me, marriage = a piece of paper that involves business type arrangements coming into play. I definitely get that isn’t how everyone (most) sees it, so I hope that comment doesn’t offend anyone. Its just my perspective on the government ordained institution of marriage. Once we take the piece of paper out of the picture, then you’re left with two people who have a heart connection they want to build a shared life upon. That heart connection is my relationship timeline pot of gold at the end of the rainbow :D.



  224.  #224Melissa on April 15, 2010 at 6:28 pm

    Hi Jackie, thank you for your blog. “Once we take the piece of paper out of the picture, then you’re left with two people who have a heart connection they want to build a shared life upon.” This really described what I think of my relationship at the moment. This comment made me smile and feel happy. Thanks 🙂



  225.  #225Ingrid on April 15, 2010 at 7:43 pm

    Hi Shannon:

    Gosh thank you for the affirmation that I’m learning to use “feeling messages” Woohoo is right! I have been so out of touch with how I feel I guess. (sigh) Thank you so much for supporting me~(smily face) –hey how do we add those little guys?

    This day started off really bad for me being “triggered” so to speak, a new term for me when I awoke to news of some celebrity “sexting” his mistress. Did I already mention this? duh if I did….I’m so spacey menopause…..Anyway it took a while today for me to even realize why I was feeling the way I was towards my h. I lashed out at him this morning as soon as we woke up and were drinking our coffee in bed together like we always do. I asked him to tell me exactly how it came about how he bought the stripper the cell phone. (THis was most of his affair—“sexting”…..ycch. Anyway enough.



  226.  #226Melissa on April 18, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    So I have stepped back and tried to stop “over-functionining” although it is very easy to slip back into the old habits, old habits die hard!!! Noticing some small improvements. For one whole day, I didn’t call him and let him come to me and he must have noticed something because I received this text msg “Baby, I do love you. I can’t see myself with anyone else. I know we drive each other crazy but I couldn’t bare to be without you”. 🙂



  227.  #227Stacey Hodges on June 21, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    How do I pull back to zero as a married woman for 5 years togethether seven I am a visual person so please give me some examples.



  228.  #228Rori Raye on June 22, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    Stacy – Welcome – and it would be hard to put my entire programs into this answer for you….so start by focusing on YOU – on what makes YOU happy, that has nothing to do with him. The happier you are regardless of what he does – that’s your ticket. Then remember to stay WARM and OPEN to him when he DOES show up – even if he’s angry! Love, Rori



  229.  #229Matmony m123 on August 6, 2010 at 10:20 pm

    Hi Rori,

    This a good articles on love life. being in love is a nice feeling.Enjoy……..



  230.  #230Sherri on September 22, 2010 at 11:37 am

    I feel like if I stop giving and reaching out he will think I’m ok without him and don’t need him.He used to say he wanted to ake care of us (me & my boys)but our plans have been interrupted. I wrote personally to you. He lives in TN. We were married a year ago. My boys and I moved there but services for my disabled son were awful so my boys and I came back. Finances are strained and I feel if I don’t keep reaching and praying he’ll move here…he won’t. He has family there but I don’t want our marriage to fail. If I back off…he will think I don’t care or I’m ok in NY without him.



  231.  #231Rori Raye on September 23, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    You’re married, Sherri – you HAVE to keep working at this…how about a third city where he can work and you can get the services you need? Rori



  232.  #232Jessica on December 5, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    First off let me say that I like this article, its good and it might work for some, but for me it doesnt.
    Im a mom and a wife. I feel that everytime something needs to get done at home, I have to do it. I have to ask my husband to take the garbage out or ask him to fold the laundry. If Im constantly working around the house I dont get a ‘honey do you want some help’ or ‘ honey just relax with me for a while that can wait’. If I stop and dont do anything, nothing will get done. Period. I dont want to be nagging to my husband, Im just at a loss.



  233.  #233Rori Raye on December 5, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    Jessica – your conundrum is what my work is all about. Start with the ebook and you’ll understand. You’re going about this all wrong. I know you don’t believe me – but you’re doing yourself and your marriage damage – there are better ways to do this. Love, Rori



  234.  #234Penelope on July 7, 2011 at 11:30 am

    Hi Rori,
    Oh my gosh…..i have a man who I think actually sees love from a woman as Overfunctioning. If you are not overfuctioning for him you don’t love him. He is very needy of love & affection, validation & support. He will get moody & stomp his feet when he calls me and I don’t give him Penny Juice pick me up. It seems as if I created myself as the Mommy he never had. This man wines & dines me I assure you…gifts, hotel rendevous’s, fine wine motgage paid…and when I am upset & losing it…he has this uncanny way of holding sacred space for me…he really does hold me, talk me through it and helps me to see how silly I am projecting outward. My question is How do you just be and allow him to come forward after being the proverbial pampering queen…I must admit I feel more in control of him when I massage him, coax him through meditations to relax & give the greatest….b’s ever…I enjoy sex so much with & through him. He knows this. He loves romance and gazing in my eyes. He says we have something special people never get in their lifetimes. I have been doing the push pull thing with hime though. What do you suggest. He has called me & I am anticipating another telling me about a romantic place we will meet in the next day or so….



  235.  #235TryingHere on July 21, 2011 at 11:15 pm

    But, Rori, everyone?

    What if your man is ill? Don’t you owe it to another human being to come to their aid when they are also incapacitated? When they are feeling absolutely awful, writhing in pain, and overcome? What happens when your man’s mother dies? What happens when he just loses his job?

    What’s our role?

    What happens then?



  236.  #236Kirsten on October 25, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    Men and women have very different ideas of what is helpful, what is considered clean, and in how they show affection and love. I don’t like to nag my husband to do things, but I also don’t like to have to do them myself. I try to appreciate the things that he does on his own without me having to ask. I know that by him doing things like filling up my car with gas, he is showing me he loves me.



  237.  #237Slippin' goddess on December 15, 2011 at 3:21 am

    Starla #150
    – My mans birthday is the same date! ..and again he’s the big 30!
    We have money worries this year and he say’s not to buy him anything for Christmas or his birthday but I will find that hard! Especially with it being a milestone.
    I was thinking of things I could do without spending money.. Like make a token book Eg. Massage voucher.. Breakfast voucher.. haha Things like that, things he loves but and always asks for.. but then isn’t that masculine energy.. or does this not matter? I’m confused..
    I’m struggling.. What could be done otherwise? Any ideas? xxx



  238.  #238Slippin' goddess on December 15, 2011 at 3:49 am

    What do you do if you just want to stop bringing something up with your boyfriend so you can focus on your work, or you’re sick of the negativeness.. and he wont discuss it anyway..

    but then because you are trying to stop mentioning it you start feeling resentful because it’s still bothering you.. as though you just feel like he’s been forgiven ‘too easily’ without even having to talk about it.. Doesn’t this tell him you’re a ‘soft touch’.
    (I saw emails to an ex he’d sent at the beginning of our relationship and all I could get from him was ‘its silly’ and then the more I tried to discuss he just withdrew so I decided to leave it.. I do believe that its irrelevant, our relationships changed and grown so much bit I still cant help but feel resentful.) I wish I didnt feel the need for closure.

    He also ignored me practically all day yesterday after the past few days of negative feeling and he never does that, yet he was going on facebook talking to other people knowing I could see! Then I got a message later on saying “Sorry havnt been in touch I’ve been busy today!” ..I didn’t wanna show that bothered me so I didnt.. but that busy he can go on facebook all day knowing I can see but not reply to my text?

    Plus.. He never speaks to me about his daughter from his past relationship (with said ex)
    Unfortunately he doesn’t see her anymore. If I mention her he never seems like he wants to dicuss it.
    It was her birthday and he’s had her picture on his display pic for two days.. It kinda makes me feel distant from him seen as he doesn’t speak to me about it but obviously really misses her and must talk about her to other people.
    How can I feel close to him when I’m in a relationship with my boyfriend on facebook, it’s his little girls picture and I’ve never met her or talked about her. I can’t help but feel like maybe we’re not close. Just wish he’d open up 🙁
    It’s like a part of his life he won’t let me into.. Is that selfish? xxx



  239.  #239Tammy on February 26, 2012 at 7:25 pm

    Wow, it’s great to know I can stop doing so much and why he’s pulling away! Time to take care of myself!