Gluten,Thyroid And Energy – My Story

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tiltheadFor me – after dealing holistically – impressively and mostly successfully with a painful auto-immune disease called Interstitial Cystitis and then GERD – I simply could not overcome my energy drain.

I’d considered it my “normal” for so many years, blamed Hashimotos and Adrenal Exhaustion, my age…and then, finally, took the Cyrex Array 4 – Gluten cross-reaction test.

There, I discovered my sensitivities to potato and corn. I had been eating potato instead of grains – so, I stopped potato – and felt only mildly better.

I eat NO corn, so couldn’t figure out why it was so high on the test results.

Then I realized – the Chinese herbals I’d been taking for years in my IC treatment with a Chinese Medical Dr. are all created with cornstarch.

The other supplements I was taking are all also created with “starch,” cornstarch, maltodextrin, dextrose – some corn derivative.

The day I stopped taking them – I could feel the change. My thyroid numbers improved drastically within two weeks.

My energy changed dramatically.

IC flare-ups stopped. I stopped “thinking” “IC.”

I’m not saying I’m the “rule” – and yet, there must be many out there like me, whose body thinks corn and potato or other foods are gluten, and then attacks my thyroid (whose molecular structure is similar to gluten and gluten-cross-reaction triggers).

I remembered weeks and months in the past when I’d felt dramatically better – and put it all together in my mind: During those times I wasn’t taking either Juice Plus (though technically gluten-free, has oat bran) or any Chinese herbals.

So – for me, it was corn instigating auto-immune attacks on my thyroid. It then felt like thyroid was the first domino, with auto-immune flare-up all cascading from there.

I know there’s a lot out there about gluten, non-celiac sensitivities, testing, gastrointestinal stuff, FODMAPS, and “leaky gut.”

I do believe candida was at the bottom of everything for me, and created these sensitivities ((though I’ve always had a cast-iron stomach with no discomfort ever – except for the year of GERD solved with stopping grapefruit, any citrus, pineapple – other food “allergies…” plus more probiotics NOT made with garbanzo beans (switch of brands from Natren to Metagenics)) – yet, once the candida was gone and the symptoms remained – reducing noted allergens and triggers from foods totally made all the difference.

I’d like to credit this man for opening the discussion and having lots of great information to share:

Hope this helps you if you’re finding yourself in a low-energy place like I was…let me know where your personal investigations on ALL manner of “self-attack” lead you!

Love, Rori



  1.  #1Femininewoman on August 7, 2014 at 12:47 pm


  2.  #2Sue on August 7, 2014 at 1:41 pm

    Yes! I feel like my ‘self attacks’ started after too many antibiotics. When food that’s meant to nourish becomes the thing that causes pain it becomes so confusing.

  3.  #3Labbit on August 7, 2014 at 3:38 pm

    It is so strange how complex our bodies are, yet how simple solutions to ailments can be. I had a similar experience of feeling very low-energy for about a year. Long story short, I discovered the probiotic I was taking contained a small amount of dairy…which I am allergic to. Once I switched probiotics I felt much better!

    I did the metabolic diet a short while later and found it incredible. The diet starts off with a blood test and then a meal plan is designed specifically for you based on balancing your body’s individual needs. It was tough to stick to the diet — I had to cut out some foods I really enjoyed! — but the effects on my body and overall health have been positive. I hardly ever bloat anymore, my periods are no longer torturous weeks of pain, and my energy level remains consistent throughout the day. I sleep better too. I no longer have to take any kind of supplement or vitamin. My body feels balanced.

  4.  #4Emerson on August 7, 2014 at 8:34 pm

    Rori, first, you look so pretty in your photo!! 🙂
    Love seeing your face. :-))
    Second, thank you for sharing about gluten, corn, etc!
    I have experimented with cutting out gluten corn and wheat and dairy…
    It was difficult! But wow I did feel better. I have not been disciplined for about 6 months in doing these limitations, thank you for inspiring me to try again…
    I really felt great without these foods and my tummy was flat!! I am not severely overweight but I have a few extra pounds…
    It would boost my confidence and feel great to get back to the way I was during my “detox”….
    Thanks Rori!

  5.  #5Emerson on August 7, 2014 at 10:27 pm

    Theres a blog I love called Skinny Cofidential! She has great ideas for healthy foods and other fun stuff 🙂
    I love having these awesome blogs to keep me motivated and learn new things! Awesome!!

  6.  #6Victoria on August 8, 2014 at 1:03 am

    I decided to eliminate gluten and alchohol for 1 month, and see whether it makes a difference to how I feel.
    In principle, I am slim and fit, but I had recently had several occasions when I would wake up in the middle of the night with reflux, and I was feeling bloated during the day.
    I am at the end of the third week and it has been wonderful so far.
    I no longer have any reflux, I have more energy, and I have probably also lost a little bit of weight, because my clothes are getting slightly loose.
    It is a bit difficult in social situations when people are urging you to join them in drinking, or are offering cakes/pastries, and you do not wish to reject their hospitality, but also do not want to go into long explanations why you are avoiding certain types of food.
    But I must say, so far my results are so positive, that I am seriously considering to go on with the restrictions indefinitely. Othewise, I do like alchohol, and I like flour-based foods, but it seem like at 40, my body no longer processes these efficiently.

  7.  #7Indigo on August 8, 2014 at 5:20 am

    Marika B from previous thread,


    Apologies if you have mentioned this before, or if you do not want to share, but have you started divorce proceedings, or not?

    I agree that it seems to be crumbs, or that is how I would feel if I were in that situation. It is a hard decision to pull away that would need to be made one day at a time. But ultimately I think pulling ourselves out of these affairs which are not meeting our needs and just keep us wondering and pining, is better for us.

  8.  #8Indigo on August 8, 2014 at 5:20 am


  9.  #9Indigo on August 8, 2014 at 5:24 am

    I too am really grateful for this blog. It is such a wonderful source of support for me, a safe place, a refuge.

    I love what Linda said on the previous blog about that feeling of anxiety and recognising things that are not working for us.

    My work and career seems to be coming together beautifully and falling into place by leaps and bounds. And I know one day my love life will fall into place too. If I can just keep being an advocate for myself, and covering myself with loving kindness.

  10.  #10sequoia on August 8, 2014 at 5:28 am

    Yes Indigo I agree. And I have the feeling that only if I have pulled myself out of this unfullfilling connection a better one can come to me, maybe even with the same guy. He might need the boundary and the withdrawel to realise it’s really not enough what he is giving. And he might only realise then when I am not available any longer and when I had the strength to walk away that he wants to get to know me and be with me or he might not miss me at all. But than at least i know ,there is clarity and I am valuing my needs and what I what for myself.

    Marika I have commented on the last thread, at the same time you posted.

  11.  #11Indigo on August 8, 2014 at 5:52 am

    sequoia 9

    So true. Does anyone else find this hard to do? I was raised both at home and at school with an extreme emphasis on politeness and consideration for other people’s comfort, so it is almost ingrained in me to accept what they say or do, and to accept their agenda, however ill-fitting it may be.

    It is something I have consciously had to train myself over years, to express my own wants, desires, feelings, preferences, and being able to walk away from something – a situation or relationship – that is not what I want. It has been a conscious effort, not something which happens naturally. It is an ongoing process, and I still have to remind myself that it is perfectly ok to say no thanks, and to walk away from something and seek something better. I’m sensitive to the wishes of others, and that is why there has always been hesitation in the past, but I’m much better at it, and also in feeling comfortable with my decision.

    But yeah, it’s something I have to consciously grow myself in.

  12.  #12sequoia on August 8, 2014 at 5:58 am

    Yes I can so relate to what you wrote Indigo #10.
    If G connects again and ask us to meet. I am going to say:
    I don’t feel good. I realised I am not valuing my desires, not valuing what I want for myself. I want more than casual sex and I do not want to go on like that. What do you think.

    I am open to more sireny ways of expressing this.

  13.  #13Femininewoman on August 8, 2014 at 6:41 am

    MarikaB I think you are doing some awesome processing. You will get your clarity

  14.  #14Azure Blu on August 8, 2014 at 8:17 am

    Emerson #4.
    I agree!!!
    Rori… you look sooo beautiful… Iike a soft, bright goddess!!!

  15.  #15Azure Blu on August 8, 2014 at 8:25 am

    Indigo #10…
    from the last thread…
    you, Labbitt, FW and Linda
    I was loving allll of your great sharing
    the Different ways to honor our own boundaries

    Realizing when interactions with cds or anyone
    are NOT feeling good for us…
    and taking steps to redirect that energy…

    I LOVE what FW said
    “You made your decision, now honor the woman who was looking out for her best interest”

    I have found soooo much strength and peace in HONORING MYSELF…
    In Painting myself with LOVE

    I don’t remember which one of you shared this on the last thread but this felt very powerful to me….

    “Over time things have shifted. At times I find myself chasing myself in my thoughts…
    but I don’t do it for long and I reel it back in.
    I feel quite protective of my peaceful place inside…
    and when I begin to feel anxious and out of balance for me…
    I know that I am trying to live with,
    make due with,
    or accept something that does not fit
    or is not “good for me”.
    this sounds like Indigo…

  16.  #16Azure Blu on August 8, 2014 at 8:28 am

    I’m wondering if you are on your way to meet wildcds family…
    Did you say something to MoM about dating others?
    I’m feeling curious

  17.  #17iris on August 8, 2014 at 8:43 am

    This is great! I too have thyroid issues, and struggle with hashimoto. I feel glad to read this, as I hope that this kind of information continues to spread. Many people I know have health issues, and I often wonder if it’s a gluten or thyroid thing. Many people are uninformed, and even I am not as educated on the topic. I only piece together bits, and my own personal experiences.

  18.  #18Rori Raye on August 8, 2014 at 8:43 am

    Victoria – wow – I know, it’s weird. I always bring my own food to parties, even dinners, wherever I go – and then (and in restaurants) I just say I have “terrible” allergies…that seems to solve the issue. Some people are curious and want to talk about it…Love, Rori

  19.  #19Indigo on August 8, 2014 at 8:50 am

    Azure Blu 18,

    I wish I could take credit for that, but it was Linda… I absolutely loved it too!

  20.  #20Azure Blu on August 8, 2014 at 8:53 am

    Wellll lovely Sirens,
    I was a rockstar goddess last night!!! :-0

    KS (cd I broke off with 4 months ago)
    and I have been in contact off and on the last few weeks…
    He asked me out for Thur. night
    we agreed it would be nice to see each other and
    have a nice dinner – and just see…

    Before RR I would have been VERY anxious
    nervous and out of my body…
    But NOW!!!
    I love the Rori tool of touching the table cloth…
    dashboard… and grounding myself in some way…
    if my feelings get overwhelming, or I get confused or flustered…
    And just BE in the moment with HIM…
    I was able to open my heart… have NO expectations and enjoy listening and sharing.

    We had a lovely dinner… he made reservations at the restaurant of our first date…
    we walked around town on a warm, soft summer evening and stopped at one of the bars and played pool… something we enjoy doing together!

    We enjoyed each other… he guided the evening…
    and ended, not too late… with kisses and hugs..
    Ahhhh… what I LOVE about last night is…
    How STRONG I am on the inside… and how soft I can be on the outside…
    Great practice!!!
    He is looking even sexier than I remembered!!

  21.  #21prplpsn28 on August 8, 2014 at 8:53 am

    Signing in to new thread. Sitting on the balcony waiting for my lazy kids to get up and going lol. See what adventures we can find today.

    I am thankful for this blog too. It has helped me from going TOTALLY insane. Had dreams of H again last night. Not sure what they mean, if anything. Still no contact. It’s getting easier to not have that urge to reach out. But he still occupies my mind 100%. Ugh

  22.  #22Indigo on August 8, 2014 at 9:02 am

    I am going out to a concert gig with a group of friends tomorrow night… it will be an alternative scene and I will be able to dress up in sexy lush blacks and browns and go wild with my make up, and watch live music, yay! BM said he might join us, or if not, he will take me to a movie this weekend.

    He texted me today and I carried on the conversation for a while… he’s very funny so he loves to tease me, but I was getting a little honestly tired with the texting. I have a pact with myself that as soon as I feel that way, I share an honest feeling message with the guy. I simply said “I feel bored with texting! 🙂 Not bored with you, I just prefer to hear people’s voices!” And he said it was fair enough and that he would call me this weekend. Yay!

  23.  #23Femininewoman on August 8, 2014 at 9:27 am

    How did J respond Indigo?

  24.  #24Indigo on August 8, 2014 at 9:37 am

    Feminine Woman,

    His response was “Sure, of course 🙂 Thanks”

    I was taken aback that his response was so light and positive. The one thing I didn’t want was an encounter that was going to have negative associations for me. So… maybe we will be able to be friends, whatever that means 🙂

  25.  #25Azure Blu on August 8, 2014 at 9:50 am

    Indigo #25
    How fun & flirty!!!
    Dressing up… lots of makeup!!! & live music
    Have fun!!

    Ahhh yes… the texting thing… even in my age group (50-65) guys get stuck on the texting…
    I like what you are saying here…
    when texting starts feeling annoying for ME…
    I need to be authentic and vulnerable and
    use FM…
    “It feels sooo good to get texts from you..
    but I get bored with too much of that…
    I do sooo love to hear your deep manly voice on the phone…”
    It’s interesting with Spiritcd… just as I was about to mention this… he’s been calling me!!!
    Mmmm… maybe he likes hearing MY soft, womanly sexy voice…

  26.  #26Azure Blu on August 8, 2014 at 10:49 am

    prplpsn #24
    have GREAT adventures with you and your kids today…
    THEY GROW UP SOOOO FAST… these are the very special days together…

  27.  #27Femininewoman on August 8, 2014 at 10:59 am

    What Pushes Him Away & What Brings Him Closer

    I get asked all the time by women, “how do I respond to him?” or “what do I say?” And I know how it feels to go into “panic mode” when a man texts or emails and you want to say just the right thing.

    I clearly remember trying to be witty or clever and even dangling “bait” out for him to snap at (that new movie looks really good, I’m going to be at xyz tomorrow night). I was usually really disappointed by his reply (or lack thereof). I was thinking way too much and holding expectations.

    Sound familiar?

    Well, I want to take the guesswork out of responding to men for you.

    Give your brain a lunch break. Hire your heart to do the job.

    You’ll know how to respond by how you feel when you receive his text or email. How much of his energy is coming at you? If it’s not very much – meaning he’s putting as little effort into it as possible – your reply (if any) should match that.

    Here’s a quick chart:

    Him: A smiley face

    You: Nothing

    Him: What’s up?

    You: Feeling good, relaxing.

    If this is a new man, especially, you don’t want to put out more energy then you’re receiving. This is putting a high value on yourself & your time.

    If you feel more of his energy coming at you, you respond accordingly:

    Him: Hi beautiful! I’ve been thinking about you.

    You: Aw, that feels so good to hear!

    Him: How are you today?

    You: I feel happy sipping my tea, sitting on the patio.

    He gets more because he’s giving more. Then you turn your attention back on to what you were doing. Don’t focus on the phone & whether he’s going to text more.

    If you constantly throw more energy at him then he’s sending your way, it will push him away:

    Him: Smiley face.

    You: Hi. How’s it going? (smiley face)

    Him: What’s up?

    You: I just got back from the gym. Probably going to hit that new restaurant that just opened. It looks awesome!

    Can you feel the energy difference? And the thinking & expectations here?

    The simple formula to make him MELT & be drawn to you:

    Match his energy.

    Emotions (I feel, I felt, it feels, it felt)

    Leave him out of it. Keep it about you. (no, “what are you doing? – unless he asks you first. When can I see you? You should check it out)

    Turn your attention back to you.

    Make him earn more & more of you! Don’t give all of yourself right up front. This will create mystery & attraction. It’s like undressing really slowly, layer by layer, one veil at a time – building the anticipation.

    What man could resist this?

    Love, ~Valarie

    From Valerie O’Ryan

  28.  #28Azure Blu on August 8, 2014 at 11:27 am

    FW #32!!
    Thanks for sharing this from Valerie O’Ryan
    “Give your brain a lunch break. Hire your heart to do the job.”

  29.  #29Azure Blu on August 8, 2014 at 11:47 am

    What I am being able to feel more intuitively now is when I’m leaning forward too much…
    feels off balance…

    as Valerie is talking about…
    to MATCH HIS energy…

    I felt me leaning forward with Spiritcd..
    He had said he “Loves me” and
    I got alll excited after Not hearing form him for a few days and NOT seeing him for 4 days… and called (went to voicemail) him that I missed him…
    he texts me where he was BUT doesn’t invite me…
    THANK Goodness… I didn’t go!!!
    I textd him back where I was…
    and he textd me the baseball game score
    and I let it go…

    I did lean forward on Thurs. with a text
    and then he called and wanted me to join him after golf… I couldn’t (a date with KS) and wanted to invite him to a party with my friends on Friday…
    he said yes…. he would cut his golf game short today and pick me up…
    that feels good!!

  30.  #30Veronica on August 8, 2014 at 2:09 pm

    Two men that I was chatting to before I met FunnyCD were great practice in being scarce with contact: I said I had met someone and shared how I felt about it…and they were happy for me and still wanted to meet and carry on talking.

    One day I was in a store and a man stopped walking, looked at me and made sure he walked past me twice – that was baffling and then I remembered ‘oh I’m a siren’. That was new. A good reminder to carry on being a siren.

    FunnyCD has been consistent with keeping in touch whether he has a bad day or not – I like that. And making plans way ahead like in November, and really nice plans like a weekend of camping, a date night and the way this is all done – asking me if I’d like that. I don’t feel panic or dread when I share my feelings with him – I feel so appreciated. I don’t know what to say when he tells me what he loves about me – I’m stumped/wowed. Then after the conversation I think ‘oh I really should tell him how wonderful it feels’. In time I’ll find those words.

    How am I in all this? It’s as though there’s more space for me – that things that would have kept me limited before now seem unlocked. And this world of deeper feeling has opened up. As though I can care without arbitrary hindrance.

  31.  #31Indigo on August 8, 2014 at 2:15 pm

    Feminine Woman,

    Thanks for sharing that from Valarie O’ Ryan, I found it very useful!

    As I read it it made me cognizant of where I’ve been throwing a little too much energy at some men in the past few days.

    Thank you!

  32.  #32Indigo on August 8, 2014 at 2:17 pm

    Azure Blu 34,

    So true! About feeling off balance. That’s why I loved this piece from Valarie.

    It reminds one to gently call your energy back. Out of sight, out of mind 🙂

  33.  #33Olympia on August 8, 2014 at 4:44 pm

    FW #32 – Thanks for that! It felt affirming to read that.

    I tend to be long winded on texts, always trying to be witty or clever but still trying to be authentic with my feelings. It feels tiring after a point! I intend to change that, not expend more energy than he is.

    I have a couple imaginary CDs….we’ve spent all day or all night texting and flirting, and then days….nothing. I’ve been good about not leaning forward, but I still need to change my vibe because I think about them non-stop…instead of what is in front of me.

    I’m spending the weekend with a friend. It will feel good to be with a flesh and blood person, instead of my smartphone 🙂

  34.  #34luzydel on August 8, 2014 at 5:09 pm

    I am practicing Mini Eat, Pray Love on weekends. Today I went to a nice restaurant on my own and had a nice dinner and drinks by myself and enjoyed so much how fortunate I am to be able to provide those things for me. I always wondered when will be the day that a “decent” date will take me to that nice restaurant, and today I decided to just go on my own and treat me dinner and enjoy my own company…

    Tomorrow I want to go to a nice quite place and just pray… Pay and forgive myself and give thanks…

    And sunday I am going to get all dressed up and be open to people…

    I am doing that every weekend from now on, reading the Book and watching the movie inspired me to do that…

  35.  #35Liquid Light on August 8, 2014 at 5:15 pm

    I’ve got a date tonight and I’m really nervous about it. I’ve been out with him before once. That was a few months ago. The date ended on a bad note when I kinda recoiled when he tried to kiss me. I did that because I don’t really like being kissed on a first date, and because I’m not sure how attracted I am to him. But I never heard from him again until recently and he asked me out on a date for tonight to a nice restaurant. He’s got a lot going for him – he’s a good man, good heart, good career. He’s a bit older than the men I typically date though and I am worried about the attraction thing. I don’t want a repeat of what happened on our previous date. Anyway, any suggestions?

  36.  #36sequoia on August 8, 2014 at 5:27 pm

    Feminine Women #32 thank you for sharing this reg. matching his energy in texts.

    G texted at 10.30 pm tonight, I guess to see if I am responding or if I am on a date.
    I didn’t respond. Was on a date with a girl friend.
    I felt happy to hear from him but also dissappointed.
    He texted: hope you are well. Wish you a good evening 🙂
    well what to respond to that?
    Any suggestions?

    So far I haven’t responded. Its clear that he wants to keep me warm and it feels strange that he texts me at that time. Friday night wishing me a good evening even so I could have a great evening with him. I feel sad that he doesn’t ask me out.

    Thought of responding tomorrow: It always feels good to hear from you.
    But I am not sure if that is putting out to much energy after reading feminine women’s post.

    So It might just say: yes feeling good, relaxing today. Hope you are feeling better. (he injured himself)

    not sure really what to reply to it.
    I do feel sad so as I would like him to come more forward and I want to be open and loving to invite him and than focus on myself.

  37.  #37sequoia on August 8, 2014 at 5:31 pm

    Liquid Light #42
    I would just surrender to the kiss if he tries to kiss you…and if it doesn’t feel good I would just say I do not feel ready to kiss (just did that recently too and I didn’t feel attracted to the guy, it felt weird), but as rori said when he leans in to kiss you let him kiss you….its just a kiss 🙂 and maybe you are surprised.

  38.  #38sequoia on August 8, 2014 at 5:51 pm

    Azur Blu #23 it feels good to hear about your great date.
    And I do find it very interesting to hear again and again that CD you sirens have broken up with in the past are coming back for another turn.
    Would you like to share why you broke up Azur blus – did he not step up?

    I am feeling a bit unsure what to do with G if I should just keep seeing him but put in some break sexually the next time and se how he responds
    or speak it out more clearly that I am not up for only sex…
    I picked some cards, I do that from time to time and they suggested when I asked what would be best for me to do reg. G to retreat and give space so I and the other people him can focus on their own needs and trust – I found that very spot on.
    And when I asked about our sexual connenction I got
    you can love without fear – a closed heart will push your partner away.
    consider were you stand- love means to open without any guarantee.


  39.  #39sequoia on August 8, 2014 at 6:15 pm

    who is into matchmatrix of your sirens ?
    I just tested G compatibiltiy and it is only 6% as lovers and friends and I know that I have false attraction…so I am wondering and I feel a bit turned off now. I am very easily affected by these things which is not always good.
    Does anyone of you have any experience with the match matrix compatibility?

  40.  #40Kyla on August 8, 2014 at 7:34 pm

    I was ‘diagnosed’ with migraines, depression, anxiety, post viral fatigue, adrenal fatigue etc and placed on multiple combinations of pills that swapped symptoms for worse side effects until I was finally hospitalized and ‘diagnosed’ with multiple sclerosis. At that point my symptoms and side effects left me unable to care for my baby or return to work and I started looking at diet and alternative therapies. A strict 30day Palo diet erased 10 years of progressive symptoms and 5 years later if I avoid dairy and corn, keep sugar and grains to a minimum and eat mostly unprocessed I am healthy. Its only when I fall into bad habits of carb loading and soda that my symptoms return. I’ve never done allergy testing, just my own elimination diary, but I would recommend it to anyone. Not saying medical science doesn’t work but for me I needed to simply alter my diet not undergo tests, lumbar punctures, mri’s and drugs.

  41.  #41A.A. on August 8, 2014 at 8:09 pm

    Hey everyone,

    Thanks for all the comments from the previous thread!

    I have nothing to offer for the blog post …though I have a feeling if I don’t eat better soon it’ll all come to a head when I get older…

    In relation to guy…

    Sigh. We have barely any contact outside of work. I know this is a sign telling me he’s not into me. That those two nights in bed didn’t mean anything. I know that I’m probably just a friend in his eyes.

    And I know I can eventually be okay with that and move on. I’m waiting for a guy who I met online to finally set up a time to meet. And I’ve been flirting with a guy who lives in another state who’ve I’ve never met (who is really attracted to me, but I have learned from High School that until he meets me, it’s only imaginary). So I’m being open to other opportunities and everything…

    It’s just…

    It sucks. I don’t feel anything for anyone. I haven’t felt anything for anyone in a long time. So when I finally got that feeling back, even if its a bit, and when it was finally returned in some way! Even if it was just two nights! Well…I got excited.

    I know, I know. There’s plenty of men out there. And I’m an amazing catch, and etc etc. And I should just stop being in contact with him if I cannot just be his friends (…Though I think I can be. I wouldn’t mind really at this point. I mean, seriously it’s better than nothing and it’s nice having a friend I like this much… …I need help don’t I?)

    I guess I should just trust that I can feel this way again with another guy and it’ll be ten times better than any time before. I just gotta believe that.

  42.  #42A.A. on August 8, 2014 at 8:16 pm

    I think I’m just going to deny if he ever offers me a ride to the train station or to home anymore, which would cut off all outside work contact really, and those are the moments he lets me know about what he’s been up to and asks me what I’ve been up to (I never had anyone to talk/ask me about stuff like that before) so it will bite big time.

    But I think maybe that’s the best.

    Femininewoman —

    Thank you for that post! I love that! So useful and it makes so much sense. I definitely feel the difference in energy and I definitely have done the mistake of giving too much.

    He used to text me in the middle of the night, just a little poke. And I’d onslaught him with a reply hours later (cause I had been asleep at the time).

    Man, where was Rori and this website a few months ago…

  43.  #43A.A. on August 8, 2014 at 8:17 pm

    ^Oh and by the way, so people can learn from my mistake and FW’s wisdom. …

    He hasn’t texted me those cute texts in the middle of the night anymore. Go figure.

  44.  #44Veronica on August 8, 2014 at 9:46 pm

    Indigo -11- Yes, totally. I too feel that pressure to be polite and to comply with the needs of others even if it might not be good for me. There are feelings of guilt and disappointment that occur when I take care of me which is saddening. But what I struggle with is the transactional element that arises: I was polite and did something for you and now you should be polite and do something for me – yikes! And what you say about now expressing your wants, desires, feelings, preferences shows up how this ‘politeness’ prevents anyone from really getting to know the other person. I catch myself in ‘politeness/comply’ mode usually just after I’ve agreed to something that isn’t good for me – but you’ve brought my awareness to it – thank you. My use of language has to change and I feel awkward ad wobbly trying not to slip into politeness.

  45.  #45Veronica on August 8, 2014 at 9:47 pm

    Indigo -11- Yes, totally. I too feel that pressure to be polite and to comply with the needs of others even if it might not be good for me. There are feelings of guilt and disappointment that occur when I take care of me which is saddening. But what I struggle with is the transactional element that arises: I was polite and did something for you and now you should be polite and do something for me – yikes! And what you say about now expressing your wants, desires, feelings, preferences shows up how this ‘politeness’ prevents anyone from really getting to know the other person. I catch myself in ‘politeness/comply’ mode usually just after I’ve agreed to something that isn’t good for me – but you’ve brought my awareness to it – thank you. My use of language has to change and I feel awkward and wobbly trying not to slip into politeness.

  46.  #46Veronica on August 8, 2014 at 9:48 pm

    Azure Blu – 23 – Yay!! I like how the high point for you is that you felt strong on the inside yet appreciated how soft you were on the outside – honouring your siren self. The date sounds wonderful – I love a walk after a meal.

  47.  #47Veronica on August 8, 2014 at 9:48 pm

    Sequoia – 45 – Your words jumped out at me “love means to open without any guarantee” – I’m slowly experiencing what I need to discard that will prevent that openness or what I have to heal to allow more openness.

  48.  #48Veronica on August 8, 2014 at 9:50 pm

    I’ve been watching how tempted I feel to overfunction – FunnyCD was telling me how he had a bad day and I could sense a wanting in me to solve it, or cheer him up or be his therapist/mother – I listened instead saying things like ‘bummer’, ‘oh dear’, ‘yikes’ and how he responded helped me to understand this a bit more. It’s as though he just wanted a release, a space where he could just say what was happening and felt heard, not managed, just heard.

  49.  #49Veronica on August 8, 2014 at 10:05 pm

    MarikaB – 39 – Thank you, I appreciate your being happy for me x

  50.  #50Liquid Light on August 8, 2014 at 10:18 pm

    Just back from my date and it was fun. The restaurant, setting and meal were amazing. And my date is a very interesting man – really smart, accomplished, and ambitious. He has a really interesting job, he’s an architect (big surprise there) and seems to be really good at it. Anyway, I was surprised by how intrigued I was. And, yes, he kissed me at the end and I didn’t resist it and kind of enjoyed it. But he was wanting a more heated kiss and that’s when I backed off. I think all in all it was OK though and I’m pleasantly surprised by the date and how it went! Wow! 🙂

  51.  #51Liquid Light on August 8, 2014 at 10:22 pm

    Sequoia, thanks for your suggestions. That really helped! 🙂

  52.  #52Indigo on August 8, 2014 at 10:24 pm

    Kyla 47,

    That sounds really traumatic :/ being put through all of that.

    I am glad you are better now.

  53.  #53Indigo on August 8, 2014 at 10:26 pm

    sequoia 43,

    I would just respond ” 🙂 having a great time”

  54.  #54Azure Blu on August 8, 2014 at 10:30 pm

    Veronica #56
    Love reading about you wanting to solve, cheer and mother FunnyCD…
    I struggle soooo much with this…

    I watched myself tonight with Spiritcd…
    When he first came over he had big news…
    (it’s sooo interesting to learn the rythm and style of each man…)
    He didn’t say: “I had a big day” or “I’m really excited about my day”
    No… He didn’t want to leave right away and
    guided me to sit down on the couch (no touching) and shared his day and his different companies and the details of all that had happened…
    which was he had decided to sign with another company that wanted him to work for them!!!
    Big news… !!!
    Rori’s tool of letting the man lead and listening carefully (I just asked questions) worked really well!!

    However by the end of the night I was noticing me doing more mothering when he told me his stomach wasn’t feeling too good!
    Not sure what I should have done there??
    Any ideas…?

  55.  #55Azure Blu on August 8, 2014 at 10:33 pm

    LL #55
    Wow!! that sounds like a great night!
    Soooo glad you enjoyed the kiss too!!

  56.  #56Azure Blu on August 8, 2014 at 10:35 pm

    Veronica #54
    Huggs!!! thank you darling!

  57.  #57Indigo on August 8, 2014 at 10:39 pm

    Veronica 52

    YES! There was a time (vomit, lol 🙂 ) when all I cared about was that everyone liked me and that I didn’t cause any waves or conflict and that everyone saw me as easy and compliant. And then I realized that that made me nearly invisible, as well as causing immense turmoil within me!

    So now, I’d rather that people know the real me. That way, if people still choose to employ me/be my friend/date me etc. that they are choosing the real me, and if they decide they don’t want to, then it was not a match based on who I really am. I’d rather that people actually KNOW me than be compliant… that is really where the joy of life is, in being yourself.

    And you are right, being polite is such a barrier to intimacy. Often people really want to give you what you want, but if you don’t let them see what that is, then you miss out on that. These days when someone offers me something, I almost welcome an opportunity to say “thank you so much, yet I would prefer… “

  58.  #58Azure Blu on August 8, 2014 at 10:42 pm

    Huggsss lovely Siren

    Yes, you will feel 10 times better because you are learning to LOVE YOU…
    which makes it possible for us to choose better men

    I remember thinking with my toxic man – BK
    “ohhh… I’ll NEVER have someone again, who signs to me, who is playful and fishes with me”
    But you know what??? I have found some of that in other cds
    and these guys are 10 nicer, sweeter, more kind than he ever was
    Sooo hang in there lovely one!!

  59.  #59Azure Blu on August 8, 2014 at 10:55 pm

    “And you are right, being polite is such a barrier to intimacy. Often people really want to give you what you want, but if you don’t let them see what that is, then you miss out on that.”

    Yes, my politeness is such a barrier to intimacy

    Thnk you Veronica too for sharing that amazing insight!!!

    Tonight with Spiritcd… he went with me and met a group of my friends…

    I worked on maintaining the lovely balance of leaning back and letting him move towards me…
    It was a delicate dance all evening…
    But oooohhhh so yummie…

    He fit in sooo well with this group..
    they play a lot of golf and so does he…
    It was such a nice evening and he mentioned it several times.
    During the evening he was talking to me about a preacher out in California
    and brought up his belief about gods love…
    and I listened with my heart opened…
    and then shared my belief and said…
    Me:”You believe this is sooo black and white”
    I believe there are many shades of gray”
    Him: Yes.
    Me; “Wouldn’t it be important that you have a woman that believes these things also?”
    Him (looking into my eyes): “are you trying to talk me out of our relationship?”
    Wow!! that made my heart melt!!!
    I said (leaning in to whisper in his ear): “No I’m don’t want to talk you out of our relationship…. That made me feel sooo good that you said that!!”
    I’m still smiling… Sooo sweet!!!

  60.  #60Veronica on August 9, 2014 at 12:04 am

    Liquid Light – 58 – Woohoo!

  61.  #61Veronica on August 9, 2014 at 12:05 am

    Azure Blu – 62 – Oh that is interesting. If FunnyCD hadn’t told me how he was feeling about his day, I would have thought that the offness was something about us. So SpiritCD just guided you and then shared with you what happened. Hm I’d like to be more open to letting that being guided happen.

    Oh the feeling sick part — that’s tricky. I want to try practicing siren-ness with this here. Maybe ‘oh no’ and then let him know that there are meds in the house if he needs. If there was a way that tenderness and touching could be about a loving caring instead of a mothering – maybe asking him (letting him direct how he needs to be cared for)? I don’t know.
    -64- : )

  62.  #62Veronica on August 9, 2014 at 12:07 am

    Indigo – 65 – Oh wow I so agree! The joy of life is in being yourself. And giving people the chance to know you and then to choose. I really like this! I’d much rather have that.

    I’ve also not wanted to cause waves or upset – where does that come from? It seems so bizarre now. And it felt like a fight to be understood, to do things that suited me and to say no to things that didn’t. The having to fight made me afraid and worn out.

    I really like this:
    being polite is such a barrier to intimacy. Often people really want to give you what you want, but if you don’t let them see what that is, then you miss out on that. These days when someone offers me something, I almost welcome an opportunity to say “thank you so much, yet I would prefer…”

    I feel tempted to post on facebook what you wrote, I know you said it was fine to do so in the past, but to be sure, may I?

  63.  #63Veronica on August 9, 2014 at 12:08 am

    Azure Blu – 67 – That is warm melty yumminess – I like how you asked – openly and curious especially a question that could have been divisive and tension-inducing. Very sireny!! This encourages me to ask THOSE questions – give a man a chance to pitch up.

    FunnyCD is atheist and it means a lot to him, I’m religious which means a lot to me but neither of us wants to change the other. At times I do feel scared when we talk about this because of so many instances in the past with other people who were trying to change me or with whom I couldn’t have even a conversation with about it. I think you’re doing awesome with this.

  64.  #64Indigo on August 9, 2014 at 2:41 am


    Of course you may! Any time! I would feel honoured.

    Azure Blu,

    Awwww, it feels so good hearing about how you and SpiritCD were able to discuss your beliefs so respectfully.

  65.  #65Veronica on August 9, 2014 at 3:54 am

    Indigo – Thank you : )

  66.  #66prplpsn28 on August 9, 2014 at 5:33 am

    Really rough morning. It’s been a week now with no contact from H. It’s starting to sink in that I’m not going to hear from him. And this is mine and my kids last day of our wknd getaway. We head home tomorrow. Then they will be gone monday thru sunday next week with their dad and I will be totally alone. It’s a sinking, horrible feeling. And of course the reunion. Not sure how I’m gonna handle things.

  67.  #67prplpsn28 on August 9, 2014 at 6:23 am

    I’ve also come to realize that his reasons for leaving were lame. He used his responsibilities, obligations, aging dad, kids, etc as a cover up for not saying what he really meant to my face. What he means is that he loves me and cares about me, and likes being with me…but…he’s not in love with me and doesn’t see this working. That makes me angry. Why not just say it? Chicken sh*t! A friend also made me realize that he’s an emotionally unavailable man. How can I know this about a man from the start and run from him? Is there any way without investing time?

  68.  #68Indigo on August 9, 2014 at 7:36 am


    It must be so sore, and so painful.

    If H is truly emotionally unavailable, then he is not really available for a relationship with any woman, and so this is not really about you, and maybe you can take some consolation in that.

    This would be an opportunity to examine within yourself why you put up with an emotionally unavailable man for so long, trust me, this is a useful exercise.

    You cannot really tell an emotionally unavailable man right from the beginning, since they are good at acting like a good and loving boyfriend in the beginning, and they really do thrive on the initial high of a new relationship. There are usually tells within about 2 or 3 months though, and I have kinda come up with my own “list” of warning bell signs.

    Anyway, sending you love and hugs.

  69.  #69Azure Blu on August 9, 2014 at 8:47 am

    sequoia #42…
    Yes, I’d be glad to share my reasons for breaking up with KScd…
    We had a 4 month exclusive relationship…
    sex was ok (i know we needed more, getting to know each other, time)
    we had a lot of fun together… he was very generous, energetic,and playful and easy to talk to…Introduced me to all his family and friends
    What’s NOT to like???
    he had a bad habit of talking about money ALLLL the time and what everything cost (he bought ONLY the most expensive) He had a VERY rude side to him that I found difficult
    I was beginning to question if this was who I wanted to be with///
    He asked me to go on a cruise with him!!! YAY!!!
    and pay for all expenses…
    How nice and generous..
    But at this same time started pulling away…
    acting ruder and not calling when he said he would…
    I was not doing well financially (not as many jobs coming in) and
    I felt it was NOT a good time for us to spend 10 days together…
    He was VERY hurt and angry…
    said we’d talk when he got back and
    never contacted me…
    I was heartbroken and very sad… cried…
    sooo I texted him and said “I’m not sure what is going on can we talk?”
    He said yes,,,, then I did’nt hear from him
    Until I textd him weeks later and said
    “Seems we have decided not to talk about what has happened… I wish you the best”
    He wanted to talk and told me:
    “He was the happiest he had ever been when with me…
    I was soooo easy to be with…
    He had sooo much fun with me
    Sooo much great s*x!!
    I was SOOOO surprised..
    BUT 5 weeks had gone by and
    I said”I don’t want a relationship where 5 weeks go by with no contact or explanation”
    and I broke it off…

    I have to say… time does bring more clarity…
    I have changed more… being able to NOT take on the actions of the man as if they were my issue…
    things like that…
    Still learning and growing and LOVING ME MORE!!!

  70.  #70Linda on August 9, 2014 at 10:23 am

    Azure.. when I read your post about KS I was struck with how concise it was. You have been able to articulate very understandably the reasons you made the decision you made.

    I seem not to have that ability about relationships but would very much like to. Although I am very aware of what I don’t like and don’t which all feels very black and white there is the human element too. I kind of see it as the living, breathing side where offering grace and applying patiences feels reasonable . This is where things become gray and lines are smudged for me. A saying that best describes what I am trying to convey here is. “Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater”.

    For instance with P there were so many great things I liked but the things that ultimately were my deal breakers showed up within a few weeks of our seeing each other. I could look at it as my experimental lab time where I was stretched and grew and used new RR tools but my investment was to try to make things workout with him.. not to have to walk away. It all wore me out so much that I don’t even feel like inviting another man into my life at this point or ever for the matter.

    I feel motivated to write a list down of what did not work for me. Some it feels so formless and identifiable as only uncomely bag of worms that I just want to stay that way. Yet after reading your post I feel it would be beneficial to sort thru them so I can say exactly how what I experienced affected me and it felt so I can better choices and decisions for myself.

  71.  #71Femininewoman on August 9, 2014 at 10:57 am

    Indigo/prplpsn – You cannot really tell an emotionally unavailable man right from the beginning.

    Sorry to disagree with you on this Indigo. I have heard Lauren Frances – another coach – talk about men dropping “lemon drops” about themselves. They do this very early on, usually about date one or two, if you are willing to listen. They pretty much will tell you anything about themselves. I have tested this theory and have found it to be true. As long as you find a “feminine” way to ask a question a man will answer. Also all men, as far as I am concerned, think of themselves as good guys who don’t want to mislead you. That masculine trait can be used to find out anything you want from guys very early on.

    Guys will tell you what they are about. Very early on. The key is AM I WILLING TO LISTEN AND BELIEVE HIM.

  72.  #72Dominique on August 9, 2014 at 11:01 am

    Azure Blu – 62 – Naturally every man is different, yet for most men, when he doesn’t feel well, he would rather be left alone. He will ask if he wants or needs something. You can tell him you you’re sorry he’s not feeling well. Much more than that is not needed and not usually wanted.

    This isn’t exactly about this, yet it is. May help.


  73.  #73Dominique on August 9, 2014 at 11:01 am

    Purple – You may have read these, but just in case, they may give you more insight.


  74.  #74Dominique on August 9, 2014 at 11:02 am

    And this one too though it doesn’t really apply to your situation, yet in a way it does.


  75.  #75Femininewoman on August 9, 2014 at 11:25 am

    I seem not to have that ability about relationships

    Linda this is a belief I would arrest if I were you. I had one similar sometime ago. Remember power follows thought. If that is what you believe your brain will have you act on it.

  76.  #76Femininewoman on August 9, 2014 at 11:36 am

    RE 82 – This story reminds me of siren who used to post here regularly. When she does pop back in I get the impression she is doing fabulously well.

    Though it might not be the same person I am thinking of it goes to show that the end of a relationship does not mean that the world ends. People do move on and some even create greater successes for themselves afterwards.

  77.  #77Linda on August 9, 2014 at 11:45 am

    MarikaB I don’t really know your situation. Only that you are married and were/are involved with a man you call T. Neither of which you are satisfied or feel happy.

    I get the sense that you want your life to be different but also for whatever reasons are not seeing how to make that possible. I know that making changes can feel overwhelming especially when you imagine what you want in your life and what you have are so different. I bet that there is something you can do today that will encourage your heart and move you closer to the life you want. Even if it is only an inch it is indeed an inch. Invest your energy there and see what happens.

    The other evening I was walking on a paved trail at the park with my grandson (age 4). Neither of us had been on the path before. We started out with pretty good idea where we would end up but I did not know what the path was like. We had been walking a bit when we came to an pretty good incline and he said Grandma this is too hard. I said… “Honey don’t look up there just look down at your feet and keep stepping forward and before you know it you will be up there” !

    I had a man ask me once… “what do you want, what do you need and what do you want do you want to feel”. I had never ever been asked that before. His words cut into my heart like a hot sharp knife into butter. I cried and cried and I cried even more. I had been living with a numbness for so long… I did not even know.

    I will ask you… what do you want?.. what do you need?… what do you want to feel? Is where you are and what you are doing affording this in your life? I am guessing no. How would investing your energy toward answering the questions and moving in their direction feel to you? What do you think?

  78.  #78Indigo on August 9, 2014 at 11:51 am

    Feminine Woman 80,

    You know, in a way I agree with you. The signs ARE there, particularly is, as you say, you ask. Men who are emotionally unavailable will in fact tell you quite often that they’re not sure if they’re ready for a commitment, or they might say something disparaging about marriage, or they might talk negatively about some of their exes who had pushed for a commitment.

    If you are willing to believe them… well, yes and no. Emotionally unavailable men have a way of sweetening the deal… they may say they want to settle down “one day”, which gives you hope, though they are vague as to when that might be. They also may strongly suggest that the problem lay with the women they were with, so you think, it will be different with me.

    Emotionally unavailable men will also often tell you they love you very much and can see you in their future… and it’s not a lie, a part of them would really like that to be true, yet they’re not capable. It’s very confusing. Emotionally unavailable men contradict themselves and you don’t know what to believe. If you can recognize and see the warning signs early on, as many women seem able to do – great. Yet many women find themselves being strung along for years by the loving and confusing things an unavailable man says, and he can be very convincing, because he WANTS it to be true. But he’s just not capable or ready. And you wonder and hope whether maybe one day he will overcome his doubts and fears.

    I outline all this not to disagree with you, FW, but just to say when you feel powerfully drawn to someone it is easy to get caught up in hope.

    That is why, for me, Circular Dating is so powerful. It absolutely prevents you from putting your life on hold EVEN IF you get caught up in the promise of an emotionally unavailable man.

  79.  #79prplpsn28 on August 9, 2014 at 11:56 am

    Indigo…do you mind if I ask what some of your signs are for emotionally unavailable men?

  80.  #80Linda on August 9, 2014 at 12:17 pm

    FW … point well taken. I do have the ability make access a situation and make a decision in short order. There are times though I seem slow to “act” on them. This is where my quality of life is impacted and the problem really is I think.

    Azure’s post triggered an awareness that I have more work to do to be the person I want to be. Wishy washy is something I dont like or want to be. This is motivation this is motivation enough to challenge what is in my brain… and sift thru it so I can make adjustments.

  81.  #81Kim on August 9, 2014 at 12:24 pm

    Hello Ladies….I am on the weekend trip and struggling a bit, with wildchild.
    He booked a lovely hotel in town and is very sweet to me, although also a little clumsy sometimes…like he doesn’t pay attention to my needs until I mention them for the umpteenth time, even if it is just to find a restroom. It’s not him being nasty just thoughtless and self absorbed. This morning he said he would go out to smoke for 5 minutes and stayed away for an hour, came back with an empty coffee cup, so he had coffee and chatted to friends on the phone and forgot about me. When it was my tirn to go downstairs and grab myself a coffee (he didn’t think to bring me one 🙁 ), he said ‘oh, I thought we can go now, let’s go’. So I said that no, I wanted a coffee too. And just left for half an hour myself.

    The other thing is he needs to run his mouth constantly…and yes, I get that he is excited and happy to talk and see people, but it’s not just with friends (we did the rounds of 5 different friends today), but even when we have a quiet time and I happen to say a sentence, he cuts me off and takks to waiting staff or the bartender instead. He is constantly looking for validation and attention from other people…and while some of it is him being in his home town (and I understand that), the other half is just him.
    Talking to me is not enough…he prefers to throw some strangers into the mix and tell him his whole life story, while I sit for half an hour bored and abandoned.
    Ok, yes, I guess I could speak in feeling messages..if I ever even got a word in!! 🙁

    I told him to drop me off and visit the rest if his buddies alone today, I needed some me time. I feel like I should go and find someone who will talk to me now. 🙁

    Then I found out while he was talking to friends, that he is planning a surf trip with a girl-friend (she is single), in a few weeks. Her, him and possibly some others. Yuck.
    I can’t go as I can’t leave the country right now, he doesn’t seem bothered.
    Yet he talks marriage and kids and moving in. He is seemingly all in (or all talk since he posted on fb somethiing leading to suggest that he is all here by himself!! And when one of his girl-friends yesterday asked him if I was his gf, I overheard him say he are dating, and she then called me ‘date’, which made me feel crappy too).

    All in all, I am having fun but I have decided that we will not be in a committed relationship while he decides to go on holiday with other girls…he seems to think moving in will seal the deal. I do not. We have to talk about that.
    I don’t feel good being snatched up by proxy and not by effort.

    We had plans for tomorrow, kayaking, but suddenly it depends on his buddies and whether they want to meet him…and so far I have felt ok with his meeting his 1 million friends, and running his mouth and me standing like a mute idiot around in other people’s houses, but if tomorrow the one thing he had promised me, kayaking those springs, is not happening, I will feel pissed.

    Thoughts? Am I focusing on the negative again? I try not to and we do have nice times, but on the whole, I feel pretty much ignored on this trip. I don’t think he asked me once ‘what would you like to do?’. We had a breakfast in the hotel and he did not join me because he was not hungry..everybody was there with their partner, I sat there weird. Yet. i was happy I ate because he didn’t feel hungry until 1pm…I’d have died by then.
    Yes, maybe just clueless and he is very sweet but if he is so inconsiderate at the beginning, I am wondering how it would be later on?maybe just a man-snack after all? What do you ladies think?

  82.  #82Femininewoman on August 9, 2014 at 12:32 pm

    Nope Kim. As far as I am concerned you are not. He is showing you who he is and you are paying attention.

    If you were fighting your way in and pointing out every nitty gritty detail I would imagine that you are focusing on the negative but I don’t get that impression. It seems to me you are paying attention and trying to figure out if you will be able to live with this in the long run. He needs to be him and you should not be trying to change him. All that he is you need to feel inside yourself that you can radically accept.

  83.  #83Emerson on August 9, 2014 at 12:32 pm

    I haven’t been on the blog in a while so I feel out of the loop.

    I feel better today about recycledCD. I feel a little piney still and feeling like I was beating myself up a little over having s#x with him out of the blue last week….
    I didn’t plan it. I relearned a lesson that I cannot have casual sex without feeling badly afterward. Because to me the sex is not casual… But to him it probably is and that sucks. It’s ok tomorrow is a new day and I have so many good things going on right now.
    I really have been missing having a relationship in my life and recently it’s been really stinging like salt on a wound…. Not sure why…’maybe summertime brings it on… If I want it so badly why am I still alone?! I feel scared that I won’t ever meet anyone special that I have chemistry with. I feel scared of being alone.
    I need to resolve all these fears…
    Wow just having sex really triggered a lot of deep issues for me.

  84.  #84Linda on August 9, 2014 at 12:37 pm

    Well said Indigo. I have been caught up in with a man who was emotionally unavailable. He did make promises.. acted on some.. sweetened the pot in lots a ways. Kinda like hanging the carrot from the end of a pole in front of the horse that motivates them to keep walking. eeeewh yep I was that horse.

    Of course hind sight can be 20/20. That experience did teach me well. My personal growth and tolerances were affected greatly. Looking back I can see where there were lots of clues and lemon drops dropped.. I just chose to not act in my best interest at that time.
    Something I lived thru and wont accept or invite into my life ever again I might add.

  85.  #85Femininewoman on August 9, 2014 at 12:37 pm

    If a man calls you a date, that is what you are to him in his mind. All the “stepping up” might be just him putting things on the table that he knows you want. It doesn’t mean he is all in. As I said before he might be just a serial monogamist, maybe that is all he knows and all he can do. He might decide to move in with you to help you out until he finds his forever woman. I don’t know. All I know is that what I am reading here doesn’t sound like it is coming from a woman who feels adored and cherished. Also it doesn’t sound like the story of a man who will crawl over broken glass or feel afraid to lose his forever woman.

  86.  #86prplpsn28 on August 9, 2014 at 12:41 pm

    Thank you Dominique. The articles were helpful. And thank you to everyone who provided their thoughts and insights. I greatly appreciate it.

  87.  #87Kim on August 9, 2014 at 12:42 pm

    Thank you FW..I feel better reading this. Really, I feel a bit bummed. After all, we might nkt even meet his Mom as she has an eye problem and can’t drive outbthe 30 minutes to here. Instead of saying we’d drive out to her, he ran to yet another buddy this
    I just feel ignored and as though he is another one who is looking for a connection but can’t walk the hasn’t fully matured yet.
    It’s all about surfing, his ‘buddies’ and his girlfriends and surfing trips and bla bla. He did bring up big ticket items but I can’t see myself doing big ticket items with a man who goes on holiday with single women….also a big trigger of mine because this is what my Dad did and cheated on my Mom…pretending he was single.
    A little like Wildchild, all very single on his fb and pretending he was up here alone and for anyone to hit him up.
    Feels kinda horrible.

  88.  #88Kim on August 9, 2014 at 12:43 pm

    Whatever, I am going out and shooting some pictures now.
    Trying to take my focus back to me.
    I need to, very badly.

  89.  #89Kim on August 9, 2014 at 12:46 pm

    The other thing is that I do need help with my bills, so I am trying to figure out how he could live with me, and yet we would not be in an exclusive relationship…because I think it’s off the menu for me for now.

  90.  #90Linda on August 9, 2014 at 12:47 pm

    Hey Kim… you are doing great. Keeping your eyes, ears,and heart open taking it all in.

    He is being him and giving you a front row seat to the show. From what you described.. it seems he is on a trip of HIS and took you along. His focus is his focus and his actions are showing you what your needs, likes and dislikes are.

    Your field trip is a gift.

  91.  #91Femininewoman on August 9, 2014 at 12:52 pm

    Emotionally unavailable men will say they are not looking for a commitment or tell you they were badly hurt by the ex. All the descriptives and what you say they say I have experienced. That is not sweetening any deal.

    Why would I choose to believe a man who contradicts himself?
    Why would “one day” give me hope if I am willing to put a boundary around the time I would spend with a man before he offers me the commitment I want?
    Why would I think a man who points out the problems with his exes won’t be doing the same with me behind my back?
    Why would I allow myself to be strung along?

    These are the tough questions I would ask myself Indigo. Taking it slow without sex is more important than hanging on to false hope. Men are very meticulous about choosing the right woman for them. Some of us as women spend more time choosing a pair of jeans than we spend choosing the man we will spend our lives with. We look for the loose threads and spots that the jean might rip easily but just fall into with a man because “we like him” or just because he is there. If there is any kind of confusion it cannot be glossed over because our emotions are there for a reason.

  92.  #92Femininewoman on August 9, 2014 at 12:55 pm

    Kim I would not choose to live with him. He will consider you owe him something. Free sex, an available woman, cleaning house and making food when he needs it. Your life is more valuable than that is my humble opinion. The fact he put that on fb is what he is thinking about himself. He might be only wanting to move in out of convenience. I don’t think it will end well.

  93.  #93Kim on August 9, 2014 at 12:56 pm

    Linda thank you. You are so right. He even stopped opening car doors which is something he always did…like all change now he has me in his lair kinda thing loo

  94.  #94Kim on August 9, 2014 at 12:58 pm

    101… FW in face, he has a lot to lose by moving in with me but I get your point. Totally. The free sex and companionship thing, without any effort – it is too soon for that. Although the reasons why I considered it were very different. And he knows that too.
    Time for the thinking cap.

  95.  #95Femininewoman on August 9, 2014 at 1:01 pm

    “very single on his fb and pretending he was up here alone and for anyone to hit him up”

    Big red flag for me. It would mean if someone does hit him up I might not see him for the night and would not know where he is. You don’t want this “creeping” up on you. You want to go in with your eyes wide open. If you live together it might turn into him showing up at some god forsaken hours at night with someone else on his arm.

  96.  #96Femininewoman on August 9, 2014 at 1:04 pm

    Also are you comfortable with the idea of having him test drive you before he is fully invested?

    I ask because I believe he has done his thinking about what is in it for him and what you bring to the table. Just my opinions…………

  97.  #97Femininewoman on August 9, 2014 at 1:05 pm

    RE 98 – This has be thinking that you are using each other. Now I am wondering what his trade off is.

  98.  #98Femininewoman on August 9, 2014 at 1:11 pm

    RE 86 – Some really great questions Linda. They really helped me to check in with myself and feel my heart how solid and set it is with the answers now.

  99.  #99Kim on August 9, 2014 at 1:14 pm

    The good thing is FW, he includes me with everything, so he wouldn’t run off but take me along if anyone did ‘hit him up’, which has happened. Me asking for alone time right niw was because I felt tired of standing around and smiling while he was yapping constantly with his after the other. I am actually relieved to get some time

  100.  #100Femininewoman on August 9, 2014 at 1:16 pm

    Kim – Rori has an article about the man in the booth. Have you read it?

  101.  #101Liquid Light on August 9, 2014 at 1:21 pm

    Ladies, could use some input here. My date last night with the architect went pretty well, much better than I expected which was nice. He wants me to come over to his place and cook me dinner. It sounds like he’s got a beautiful home and I would love to see it. I just don’t feel comfortable doing this so early on. I don’t want to hurt his feeling and I don’t want him to feel rejected by declining his invitation so what do I do? How should I handle this, any thoughts?

  102.  #102Liquid Light on August 9, 2014 at 1:28 pm

    Kim, if someone treated me like that, ignoring me and disappearing on me without any explanation, I would be so annoyed. Huge red flags. He sounds like he wants to have his cake and eat it too. He doesn’t have to treat you well and can have you around like a puppy dog. I would seriously be very concerned about the disrespectful treatment and lack of concern for your needs and wants. He really sounds like he’s got some growing up to do. I sit here asking myself, what’s in it for you, Kim, because you sound like a great, smart woman with lots to offer. And you are beautiful too (love the pic :). I hope I’m not being too harsh about this guy and take this with a grain of salt because its coming from a total stranger but my take is that you deserve way more than that.

  103.  #103Femininewoman on August 9, 2014 at 1:35 pm

    You want to be a “diva” not a girlfriend

    “The man in the booth was always financially strapped and kind of boyish, where my husband took me to a nice restaurant and clever places for dates right off.

    But the real difference was all about ME.

    With the man in the booth, I was always on edge, on tender hooks. I was always worried, wondering, and caught up somehow. With my husband, I was relaxed, leaning back, and happy.

    You’d think that would be simple, but it took me years and years to get there. It took me years and years to just give a man like my husband a chance. Because what the man in the booth wanted was for me to make HIM happy. And what my husband wanted was to make ME happy!

    And, all those years ago, I was so busy running myself down and trying to make men happy, I couldn’t even ALLOW a man to make me happy. I’d pretty much turn any man who wanted to make me happy down flat.”

  104.  #104Dominique on August 9, 2014 at 1:41 pm

    Liquid Light – How about saying exactly what you said here. You have no control over his feelings, but you must take care of your own feelings. He will feel as he does.

    – I really enjoyed our time last night. I would love to see to see your home, but I just don’t feel comfortable having a date at your place so early on. –


  105.  #105Femininewoman on August 9, 2014 at 1:41 pm

    Kim I understand he didn’t run off and leave you but he is comfortable leaving you and going off with his friends when you asked for me time. I would expect him to be concerned about you being by yourself in a “strange” place. He brought you here so his primary job I imagine would be doing everything to make you happy which would cause him to be acting different. He invited you, remember, to his hometown. I would expect him to refuse to go out without you or at least constantly checking in to make sure everything is alright. His intuition I think would be suggesting you wanting to be alone is odd.

  106.  #106Kim on August 9, 2014 at 1:46 pm

    Liquid light – thank you for your input. Well, I did encourage him to leave and see his friend…I craved ‘me’ time, but point taken and I agree with much of what you say

    Same with FW, he did ask me several times if I would be ok with it, after I suggested it. So he kinda tried to make sure I would be ok.
    He also said he would call me, and it wouldn’t be much more than 45 is now 2 1/2 hours later.

    I feel ok, because part of me thinks he catapulted himself out of the game already.
    I also can’t help but think about my other CD who would relish every minute he spent alone with me. Yet, he is commitment shy.
    So weird. If only we could bake the perfect man, eh? 😉
    Another one seemingky bites the dust.
    Time to check my POF account…

  107.  #107Kim on August 9, 2014 at 1:51 pm

    FW, yeah, I came here with little expectations. The few I did have (for a weekend getaway) was that I would be the primary, if not all of his focus. However, right now I just feel cast aside and it started this morning already by him sorting himself out with coffee, staying away for an hour (5 minutes apparently) and never asking if I wanted a coffee or breakfast and then rushing me when I tried to sort myself out.
    Didn’t feel inspiring and went downhill from there.
    If the truth be known, I am also responsible because I made a content face when he dragged me around different people’s houses (i was never involved in any conversation, i don’t think I said one word, all morning), and when he asked me if I was ok, I said ‘yes’.
    Well, there was never one moment to express my feelings….as when we started talking, at lunch, he started talking with the bartender and then said to me hiw he wished some of his friends could have joined us for lunch.
    Just felt like I was not enough for him.
    Mybe he regrets bringing me?

  108.  #108Linda on August 9, 2014 at 4:16 pm

    @98 Kim…. the bottom just dropped out of my stomach reading that. I made a decision similar to your 3 years ago. I wont go into it all but let me just say that finances were the least of my problems after.

  109.  #109Kim on August 9, 2014 at 6:48 pm

    The evening already took a turn for the worse.
    I am not going into it but he was very confrontational and kept saying he should just look for a young American girl because I am too complicated etc. so I said ‘ok, I am sure that would be a better idea and if I was you I would do the same’.
    So then all the joking and stuff turned into an argument…I think he had too much to drink maybe and he smacked me on my butt – as a joke – but it hurt and I removed myself.
    And then he walked out.
    And keeps texting me all this bs..whatever.
    He is angry with himself about something, but I wasn’t overly impressed tonight, or the whole day.

  110.  #110Emerson on August 9, 2014 at 8:45 pm

    I’m focusing on me and my feelings and my projects! Great day planned for myself tomorrow!
    Pedicure, manicure, work on laptop,
    Also, I intend to put a sexy outfit together and my goal is to do it for under $50 from discount stores. I need something fresh 🙂
    I am turning my attention away from all the men who I tend to pine over and focusing on me.
    I have been imagining and picturing the feeling the relationship and the man I want with me in my life..

  111.  #111Emerson on August 9, 2014 at 10:59 pm

    I noticed that I am much faster to forgive myself for things recently…It feels good to not be too hard on myself…
    I have goals to have life balance…
    When I allow myself something of a small indulgence that feels good, I’m not second guessing myself as much these days..
    What am I doing to make myself feel good? I am listening to music that makes me feel good…
    I am thinking about memories that are pleasant and uplifting..
    I am feeling grateful for my family members that love me and make time for me…
    I am constantly working to improve myself and that includes my communication skills and my relationships

  112.  #112Emerson on August 9, 2014 at 11:02 pm

    Even though recycledCD said he wanted to see me this weekend, I have not heard from him. *shrug* I was not counting on it and although Icould entertain feelings of abandonment, rejection and sadness…I refuse to do so….
    After all, I am a siren, tomorrow i am going out into the world with a mani and pedi and a new outfit to see what the world will bring me..
    I still do my affirmations in the morning of my intentions….I need to add to my vision board!
    I need to clarify some things that I want to see happen for me….and get really solid in that I DO indeed want these things in my life….
    Thank you sirens for being here, not sure if anyone is even reading my posts but it feels good to write it down and tell you nonetheless 🙂

  113.  #113Indigo on August 10, 2014 at 2:17 am

    Feminine Woman,

    Yes, I agree with you, and those are excellent questions. Excellent questions, if you can ask them dispassionately. I think many women however develop strong emotional investments that cloud the way they see things… and I think perhaps this is where the work is.

    I think it’s not so much a case of not being able to see what is going on, as not wanting to believe it. I know I have been there. And believe me, there was nothing wrong with my powers of deduction. I was just choosing to see other things – and my insecurity played a big part here.

  114.  #114Indigo on August 10, 2014 at 2:32 am

    Purple 88,

    Yes, there are a few things which set off warning bells for me.
    * For me, the number one giveaway that a man is emotionally unavailable is he doesn’t want to see you on a Saturday night. Some sirens may disagree with me, and perhaps he will have all kinds of excuses, but for me this is foolproof. And maybe he will start off spending Saturday nights with you, but is he is emotionally unavailable this will taper off. A man who is a bachelor at heart reserves his Saturday nights for other things!

    * If all his communication comes from texts or IM’s. I know that this has become all too convenient and prevalent in this day and age, but a man who can get emotionally invested will call you if you ask him to.

    * Big giveaway – he talks disparagingly about his exes, especially if he calls them needy, clingy or the relationship foundered because she wanted more commitment.

    * He is reluctant to commit to future plans, whether they be a week or a month from now. He is vague or hard to pin down.

    * He cannot communicate through issues – he either stonewalls, shuts down or ignores the conversation as if it never happened.

    There are other signs, but for me these are the biggest ones. There is a feeling of stagnation in a relationship with an emotionally unavailable man – he always keeps you at a bit of a distance.

  115.  #115Indigo on August 10, 2014 at 2:56 am

    Oh Kim, ick.

    It reminds me a bit of J, who after the first few dates, seemed to feel the need to invite his friends along on our dates, and he is a big talker as it is, so I felt that my choices were either to try and talk up a big game with the rest of them (which I don’t enjoy, I am quiet) or have a miserable time. In fairness to him, when I said something he completely respected my wishes and I get the feeling he would have done whatever I needed for me to feel comfortable.

    I would definitely speak up if I were you, Kim. Interrupt him while he is talking if need be. Just be completely open and honest from the heart and authentic. I wouldn’t get accusatory or blaming, but I would be very firm about what I thought my impressions of the weekend was going to be, and my feelings on everything. Quite frankly, I think the way he is treating you is rude and outrageous.

    I would be far less concerned about the Facebook thing and the female friends thing, and much more concerned about his inattention to my needs and comfort when he has invited me away for the weekend to meet his family. Agree with what Feminine Woman said in #114 100%. I would be watching that he is concerned that I am having a good time and have what I need, and at the very least that he is attentive to basic things like when we eat, drink and rest.

  116.  #116Veronica on August 10, 2014 at 4:38 am

    Sex with FunnyCD is really good and I don’t feel attached or tethered to him. I just feel good – is this a good thing? Or is this the beginning of some kind of disconnection? With BM, I felt tethered – as in bonded.

    And his mom arrived and we weren’t expecting her to arrive early = awkward and too premature a meeting. She seemed sweet but I don’t know if that was because of the unexpectedness. I felt bad for her that it wasn’t a choice for her, that she was surprised like that. I don’t have any anxious feelings about all this – just a strong sense of watching this all unfold.

  117.  #117Veronica on August 10, 2014 at 4:42 am


  118.  #118Azure Blu on August 10, 2014 at 5:39 am

    LInda #79 & Marika #78
    Thank you ladies for these words of encouragement!!!
    It iss soooo good to hear!

    Part of the puzzle here… is CDing
    … I waited to start dating again with KS because I still liked him a lot and I had made an exclusive commitment…
    But as soon as I realized I didn’t want to have someone in my life AGAIN (my former bf of 2 years would break up with me every 3-4 months) who waited soooo long to figure out what his feelings were…
    I started accepting dates… and since Rori…
    there seems to be someone always waiting in the wings… :-))

  119.  #119Azure Blu on August 10, 2014 at 5:45 am

    Wow… so proud of you Siren!!!
    It was such a good idea to emerse yourself with wildman!!
    Now you have seen who he is…

    I am LOVING all of the thoughts on what an emotionally unavailable man looks like….
    Do you think Wildman fits into this category?

    This is just me…
    What wildman is proposing for you and him to move in together…
    It is reminding me of how HE is living right now…
    It would be interesting to talk to his roommate and hear her side of the story…

    There are many people (women) looking for roommates…

    I wouldn’t move in with this man EVER…
    But this is just MY opinion.

  120.  #120Azure Blu on August 10, 2014 at 5:54 am

    Who mentioned to PRACTICE sharing YOUR feeling Messages? I agree!!

    NO matter how difficult it is to get a word in edge wise…
    I seem to end up with men who do ALOT of the talking…
    and part of that is my fault… I tend to NOT think that MY life is very important…
    I grew up with a Dad and 2 sisters who talked allll the time… someone had to listen
    and it ended up being ME!!!

    I keep trying to Encourage, softly nudge ME to figure out how to share ME and MY day with the men I’m with!!!

    Share your thoughts about what is going on with Wildman….
    I believe THIS is VERY IMPORTANT for YOU!!!

    Sarah Berellis~
    “Say what you want to say
and let the words fall out

I wanna see YOU BE BRAVE

    Honestly… Did YOUR history of silence

    do you any good?

    Did you think it would…?
Let YOUR words be anything but EMPTY
why don’t YOU tell them the TRUTH?

    Say what you want to say

    and let the words fall out
I wanna see YOU BE BRAVE”

  121.  #121Azure Blu on August 10, 2014 at 6:05 am

    Indigo# 123 & FW
    Wow I LOVE all this information about emotionally unavailable men!!!

    I can see MY pattern of attracting unavailable men!!!
    (((I LOVE MY pattern of attracting unavailable men)))
    Huggsss AzureB

    of course… the MORE emotionally available I become…
    the more available the men I choose will be!!!

    I’ve been dating Spiritcd for 3 weeks and I’m seeing signs of this!!
    Not making plans for Sat night…
    Not making plans in advance…
    LOTS of texting… NOT much phoning…
    We HAVE discussed rest of our life commitment

    But there seems to be pink flags going up
    about some of this…
    AND he talks ALOT
    and doesn’t always listen when I talk about my life…

    I’m just seeing how I feel when I am with HIM!
    and what unfolds…

  122.  #122prplpsn28 on August 10, 2014 at 6:07 am

    Yep Indigo…that’s H. Unfortunately for me I didn’t let myself see it. He always told me it was more then friends with benefits and that he would never lead me on or string me along. In reallity he did tho. Ugh. Dating is not in my future. I’m done. It makes me want to throw up.

  123.  #123Azure Blu on August 10, 2014 at 6:16 am

    Emerson #92
    Thank you for being vulnerable and sharing YOU!!!

    I pasted and copied this into my folder…
    “I relearned a lesson that I cannot have casual sex without feeling badly afterward. Because to me the sex is not casual…”

    I am always looking for the right words to share with my cds because I too have learned that
    for ME… sex is NOT casual…

    I like how you are deciding to start each day with positive affirmations…

    I am yearning for a rest of my life relationship and often feel sad and alone…

    I want to gently, softly tell myself today…
    I do know how to love someone wholey…
    I do know how to be emotionally available
    I do deserve a forever man
    I AM perfect right NOW!!!

  124.  #124nyx on August 10, 2014 at 6:19 am

    @ Kim

    Wildchild seems to be really into you- whatever you decide to do with this, you should take that as a compliment. 🙂 But he also seems to be a person extremely driven by impulses (and feelings). I’m a bit worried over the fact that you were invited to meet his family, and now his mom fell off the schedule? He doesn’t seem to want to care for her limited circumstances?

    If a guy constantly prioritizes friends over family, one should ask if he will see oneself as “friend”, family” or “partner” a bit longer down the road… or already does?

    Sometimes it seems people label friends as those you have fun with (coming up with projects and adventures for them), and family as those who should always be there, even if you don’t put in any effort in their direction…

    Writing this, I feel it is definitely time for me to get in touch with a few friends and family members before my hectic job starts up tomorrow 🙂 Project of the day!

    Thank you all sirens- you are always such a source of inspiration to me 🙂

    @Emerson- was inspired by your posts this morning- lots of people read and think and appreciate- it is just not always visible on here 😉

    @ FW and Indigo- thanks a lot for your response- I felt so warm inside. Always reading your insightful comments and getting so much out of them- today about a man’s behavior and emotional availability. Realized the guy I’m into is not emotionally available. Today, this helps me to put him in the back of my head and concentrate on several miniprojects that feel great to me (like planting fresh herbs while having leftover sparkling wine in the sun- hey, it’s the last day of my vacation!), plus a CD-date later.

    Thank you! 🙂

  125.  #125nyx on August 10, 2014 at 6:26 am

    @ Rori

    The concept of CD-ing has totally changed my life and brought so much fun into it while relieving me of my habit of obsessing. (Yes, of course it still shows up- but not in a way that impairs my whole life, like it used to). While missing the guy I’m into, I have gotten to know several guys, and two really interesting men- before Rori I wouldn’t even have handed out my phonenumber to them. 😉

    Gogo sirens! CD! 😉 😀

  126.  #126Azure Blu on August 10, 2014 at 6:33 am

    Veronica #125…
    I’m curious what you mean by…
    “it wasn’t a choice for her”

    My thought goes right to… why didn’t she call and mention she was coming earlier than planned?

    How did Funny act through all of this?
    What were his inner actions around his mom?

    Always nice when the s*x is good!!!

  127.  #127nyx on August 10, 2014 at 6:34 am


    >.< your name should've been with FW and Indigo's right above. All that heartfelt thank you is for you as well 🙂

  128.  #128Azure Blu on August 10, 2014 at 6:38 am

    nyx #134

    I TOTALLY agree!!!
    Cding is THE best thing Ever!!!

    When I first started using the Rori tools…
    I didn’t understand the concept of Free therapy with each CD…
    Now I am getting much better at watching ME with each man… Seeing my reactions, my vibe,
    being curious
    AND practicing sharing MY FEELINGS (this is the MOST difficult for ME)

    THANK YOU RORI!! *****

  129.  #129Azure Blu on August 10, 2014 at 6:40 am

    Awww!!! thank you!!! that makes me feel happy and warm!!
    I’m smiling!!

  130.  #130nyx on August 10, 2014 at 7:05 am

    Well… practising the tools plus my own personality…

    The tools: A flirt I see twice a year AND my roommate both told me within days, admiringly and appreciating: “You are so good at sharing/telling how you feel”. Never had anyone saying that before in my life. Definitely the tools.

    The tools plus my personality: People notice me. But with the tools, lately- seems like every man around notices me, and lots approaches. Bought a laptop yesterday, asked what I could get into the deal, seller said “Me”. The tools and me.

    The tools, plus me, plus vacation, two weeks ago: I was denied buying wine because the seller suspected I wasn’t sober. Actually I was totally wrapped up in being in the moment, here and now, which unfortunately included me spotting a woman in the perfect red dress I’ve been looking for for years, and unsuccessfully trying to make eyecontact with her to ask where she got it. Learnt two extra things: Ignore a male salesman at your own risk and too much vacation is probably not good for me 😉

  131.  #131Veronica on August 10, 2014 at 7:14 am

    Azure Blu – 135 – We had planned that I would visit and leave before his mom arrived – it was his brother’s birthday and they were all going to have lunch together. I and FunnyCD wanted our relationship to be private for a bit longer. The really awkward part was that we had to get dressed FAST.

    What I meant by not having a choice was that I thought it would be better for us to meet for lunch at some point knowing that she was going to meet her son’s partner.

  132.  #132Veronica on August 10, 2014 at 7:16 am

    We wouldn’t have heard anything because we were very busy *blush*

  133.  #133Veronica on August 10, 2014 at 7:37 am

    Azure Blu – 135 – I didn’t answer your two questions. He was supportive of me while I told him I felt anxious. He made me tea, offered to make his mom tea. He introduced me. He didn’t try to manage or direct the conversation. He seemed comfortable with his mom even though he doesn’t feel completely accepted by her and his family.

  134.  #134Beloved on August 10, 2014 at 7:59 am

    “He led me on.”

    This caught my attention because I was telling myself this story about my ex and i felt inspired to do the work on it.

    He led me on – is it true?
    Can I absolutely know that’s true?
    How do I feel when I believe that thought, ‘he led me on’?
    I feel angry. I feel pist. I feel rage. I feel betrayed, I feel like hitting him with a giant hammer. I feel loathing and hate.

    Who would I be without the story ‘he led me on’?
    I would feel relieved, happy and present, I just be me, feeling good about my future and feel happy I’m single and in a happy relationship with myself. I’d be focused on the good and fun and amazing and exciting life I’m now creating for myself.

    The turnaround –

    >>*I* led me on.
    Yes, I told myself everything would be okay, it would get better, if only this that or the other condition would be satisfied and if I could only fix something about me or he would change something about him, it would all be okay. I told myself that if I would just stop being ME, and be a whole different person altogether (ha), it would be okay and the relationship would work itself out. Even though there was so much I didn’t like even before the first date, and especially on the first date, I told myself I could live with this, I could be okay with this.
    Even though T was unreliable and rarely ever did what he said he would do before we ever dated and was doing contract work for my business, I told myself that was because he didn’t like my ex/business partner and that if he and *I* were together, it would change…magically somehow…

    haha this feels so enlightening 🙂

    >>I led HIM on.
    How is this true?

    I tried to make him believe I could and wanted to change into his ideal fantasy goddess who never gets angry, criticizes, f*cks up, who is all-approving, all-accepting, unconditionally loving and 100$ positive and perfect at all time. I wanted him to believe this because I wanted to believe it myself, and also because I liked his attention (when he was idealizing me), had never had so much focused on me so intensely, and it was like a drug I never wanted to lose.

    I wanted him to believe that I was a ‘cool’ girl who was okay with the clutter, the gazillion cats, the disgusting dirty cat-hair covered house, the general disrepair and neglect of his animals and household, his lack of hygiene, his tobacco smoking (omg I can’t believe I dated a smoker for so long wth that is SO freaking disgusting to me!), his megalomania…I let him believe I was okay with a lot of things I was NOT really okay with because I didn’t believe I could do any better.

    He didn’t really lead me on…it’s funny because once I started feeling braver and stronger, asking questions I felt scared to hear the answers to, really listened to the answers and trusted my judgment, the thing with him that had been going on for years and years, lingering and lingering…fell apart. Once I stopped trying to pretend things were ok with me that weren’t, learned to lean back instead of chase, and I could see and accept things for what they were, it was all over very quickly.

    Once I stopped leading ME on, it was done. I went NC and have been NC for exactly a year and wow i am so much stronger and feel so much happier.

    This is kind of fun to see, the shift in my attitude over time.
    I used to be “understanding” and now I just let it all out.
    A friend made a massage appointment with me, and flaked out at the last minute.
    I didn’t pretend like I understood and was okay with it. She told me her husband had made plans with his family, and I told her, well, good, that’s HIM. You and I made plans last week for today, what about us? What about me, who has been planning for this and looking forward to it all week?

    There was some more back and forth, where she gave me a bunch of excuses and I wouldn’t let her off the hook and told her I was giving her a hard time because I felt disappointed and I like her and it mattered to me.

    Sooo not “cool” where I’m so above it all, haha 🙂

    Which, of course didn’t change anything, she is still her and she is still going to do what she wants to do which was NOT get a massage. But everything she told me, I took as information. What I learned about her, is I can not make plans with her because she sort of goes whichever way the wind blows. Ok, fine, I just won’t make plans with her. I still really like her and don’t want to disconnect from her, she is my son’s neighbor and is a super sweet woman who is really good to my son and DIL’s family. So, maybe in the future she’ll want a massage when I’m visiting and available and it will work out spontaneously, maybe not, I just know not to make plans with her. 🙂

    And this feels SO FREAKING GOOD! I feel so much love for her and my heart feels so open and I feel SO good about myself for saying what I thought and felt without making anyone wrong I could just cry it feels so joyful and delightful and amazing.

    Lovelovelove this.

  135.  #135Kim on August 10, 2014 at 9:05 am

    Thank you Azure Blue and Indigo and Nyx….so many great words. I am taking it all in. Today we weree going to see some springs, and visit his mom. The plan changed, we are hunting down more friends, standing around closed restaurants that they work in, waiting for them to turn up…and then chasing them home because they aren’t working.
    Clouds are bubbling up, so it’s going to be raining later, so what fun….

  136.  #136Kim on August 10, 2014 at 10:16 am

    Actually, I am ok with it….
    Somehow been an interesting and revealing trip, and parts of it were fun. That’s life!

  137.  #137Dixie on August 10, 2014 at 11:26 am

    I had a happy/sad breakthrough this morning. I was trailrunning with my friends – I like it because it always makes my head and heart feel cleared of cobwebs…and I came to a realization that felt powerful and releasing for me…

    I honestly feel that the universe brings back a lesson, sometimes in different forms, until we learn what we need to. Things felt so weird with D this weekend when we reconnected – the big elephant in the room was the sudden unexplained breakup and so many unanswered issue surrounding that. On Friday, I felt stuck moving past that issue into an honest and free conversation. He felt it too and said so.

    This was my huge realization today. All this time, I felt that I NEEDED that explanation in order to move past this and maybe open my heart again to him. But today while running, I had a flashback to 10+ years ago, when my ex and I were trying so hard to piece back our marriage, but the affair was stuck hanging in the air. Looking back, as much I said I wanted to move on, I still brought that back. That was *my choice* to carry that forward.

    I’m learning so much from these boards. I remembered something that Rori once said, that I have to ask myself “What I am willing to accept? What can I live with?” And then it hit me. What I want is a loving and safe relationship, one that feels even better than the one I had with D. And if I really want him back in my life, because I do still feel love for him, then I have the choice to simply accept what happened in the past, let go of the sudden breakup, let go of my need for explanations, just leave all that by the side of the road and explore where we go and how that would feel.

    I don’t know if he will be back in my life and that feels sad because I have tender feelings for him still. But maybe he was just a messenger to teach me that as much as my brain wants an explanation, that’s all it is: a WANT, not a NEED. And I don’t really always need an explanation. It feels tiring to go backward and try to “figure out what happened.”

    The other thing I realized was that all this time, if I wanted, I really could have CDed more. But as much as I said I wanted a relationship, I shut out other options when they came too close. Proof? I joined eharmony but whenever things got too close, I just drifted way. As much as I say I want to be in a close relationship, I consciously chose D., someone who was loving but also had his own (self-acknowledged) issues with closeness.

    A lot of opening up and realizations for a Sunday.

  138.  #138sequoia on August 10, 2014 at 12:36 pm

    Thank you Azur Blu for sharing the past story of your Cd that has come back, it#s inspiring.

    And thank you beloved for sharing the work with He lead me on…I need to do that to with my ex CD G

    After G texted me on friday I replied on sat and than called him – I regret it now – but I somehow had enough, I just felt not valued and I felt I was not valuing myself going along…him keeping me warm with the texts on how was my date – making fun of me. I felt humiliated somehow.
    So we ended it, calls and texts back on forth, finally on a ‘good’ note.
    I feel sad and hurt as he rejected me because of my believes and interest in the spirit world , it scared him and repelled him. I very much regret being so open with him and sharing this with him. I feel sad that I am rejected because of my sensitivity.
    I feel afraid and sad and I do not know if it is good to share this with the men I am dating. i feel like I have to hide it , cover it up as I have been rejected already twice now because of what I believe and what I am interested in.
    I wish I would have kept it for myself and I guess it is good to do that in the future and only share it after some time.

    But with him the major issue was that I felt strung along and I wasn’t able just to go along with it as there weren’t any other CD there that helped me to keep the focus of him.

    I regret it that I was so impulsive, that i called and I wish I could have just let it be for what it was without me wanting to change any of it, and learn to bring my boundaries in.

    When we spoke on the phone I got argumentative and I fell into my old roll of being the victime, however at least i realised it and I was able to pull back and stop after he pointed out to me that he doesn’t want to argue.

    I was able to stop myself from texting again and it was him that texted again.
    So there was some progress. I do regret so that I reached out in the first place and wonder what would have been if I wouldn’t.
    I feel sad.
    He texted that he feels sad too and somehow I do have the feeling that he might comes back when he is more settled with work as he doesn’t feel good at the moment, but I also do know that I have to let it go completly and forget about him.
    The other CDs seem to have dissapeared as well.

  139.  #139sequoia on August 10, 2014 at 12:52 pm

    Kim I think its great that you did spent a lot of time with your Cd WC and that you could get to know him in this way…and also learn about you feelings and what you want and not want.

    If it would be me I would not invite him to live in my space. I would need my space esp. if its only a studio – one room – to keep myself centred. Also I wouldn’t be able to invite any other CDs back home if he would be living with me, or at least it would be awkeward.
    But than only you yourself know whats the best thing to do.

  140.  #140Azure Blu on August 10, 2014 at 1:25 pm

    Veronica #142
    Ohhhh…. having a romp in the sheets!! :-0}

    I like hearing how couples handle the meeting the family issues…

    I know I have put breaks on meeting parents sometimes and
    other times If the guy is open and easy about it…
    I go to find out how the rest of the family is
    and what the dynamics are!!

    Sounds like it went fairly soomthly! :->

  141.  #141Azure Blu on August 10, 2014 at 1:32 pm

    I too enjoyed reading the “He Led Me On”

    I broke up with my toxic man – BK – 9 months ago…
    and started out saying
    He Led ME On!!!

    Then after time and soul searching and LOVING ME MORE…
    I realized BK was a blessing and lead me to RORI*
    which is the best thing to happen to me!!

    Also that he helped me realize
    I DO want a live together (or marriage) rest of my life
    To share My dreams easily and early
    To set boundaries early and easily
    Sooo many good things
    came from soooo much searching and heartache
    looking for MY OWN Happiness
    IN ME!!!

  142.  #142Azure Blu on August 10, 2014 at 1:34 pm

    sequoia #147…
    You are welcome… it was nice to be asked…

    I’m Not understanding why you regret calling G and ending things?

  143.  #143Azure Blu on August 10, 2014 at 1:35 pm

    thank you for being your lovely vulnerable Siren self and sharing and opening up

  144.  #144April Rose on August 10, 2014 at 2:17 pm

    Femininewoman 85

    I’m not sure you were meaning me, but your comment fits my story exactly 🙂

    This is a clip from Domininque’s article

    “… Of course the thought of ending a long term relationship, one that was once really good, is really hard and very painful. And the more you can nurture you, the better off you will feel in all ways, and the easier it will be to decide. It will provide him with the space to step up if he will, and if he won’t, you are no longer spinning your wheels and being unhappy in this relationship you haven’t been having with him…”

    I love this phrase – “this relationship you haven’t been having with him”


    Many of you may remember me saying how WM didn’t row the boat. It was FW who spotted that “he doesn’t even seem to be IN the boat”. Priceless!!

  145.  #145April Rose on August 10, 2014 at 2:19 pm


    I LOVE this

    “That is why, for me, Circular Dating is so powerful. It absolutely prevents you from putting your life on hold EVEN IF you get caught up in the promise of an emotionally unavailable man.”

  146.  #146sequoia on August 10, 2014 at 4:12 pm

    Azur Blu
    because I would have liked to stay cool and just see how it develops without leaning forward and because I do like him a lot. I feel sad that we did not have the chance to get to know each other better. I feel a deep connection to him, when I think of him I can feel his calm presence and I long to be with him.
    But I guess I have been clear on what I can not accept and I have walked away. If he is for me he will come back for another round.

  147.  #147sequoia on August 10, 2014 at 4:16 pm

    …and step up, with a lo more time dedicated to wanting to being with me and showing me with his actions that I am important to him.

  148.  #148April Rose on August 10, 2014 at 4:58 pm


    I have had quite a bit of experience with matchmatrix, and what I have noticed and agree with them about is the draining effect of two people together who have opposite communication styles.
    I have tested this with everyone I know – friends, family, dates. There is so much more ease and flow in the interactions with people of the same style as me.

  149.  #149Azure Blu on August 10, 2014 at 8:07 pm

    Dominique & April Rose!!
    I tooo LOVE THIS!!
    “being unhappy in this relationship you haven’t been having with him…”

    and FW
    “he doesn’t even seem to be IN the boat”
    LOL LOL :-)))

  150.  #150Azure Blu on August 10, 2014 at 8:12 pm

    Sequoia #155
    Thank you for explaining…

    I know it doesn’t always feel good

    BUT… ME setting boundaries are such a BIG, Powerful
    way to SHOW ME …
    That YES, I will take care of ME
    and stand up for ME
    I learn to trust ME more and MORE…
    whick is SOOOO important in learning to trust
    In growing strong on the inside.

  151.  #151Kim on August 10, 2014 at 9:01 pm

    Hmmm..I am back from the trip with wildchild. We had that falling out on Saturday night, but as soon as he realised he was being a d*ck, he started sucking up to me at night.
    He is stressed for a couple of reasons (and alcohol brought the real truth out), one being my situation here, which is kinda fragile as I might have to return to Europe, and the other is me keepin my options open as long as I am not in a committed relationship heading towards marriage (which in our case would be totally premature anyway).

    So this whole episode was him growling at my boundaries, more or less. I told him as long as he is also still in contact with exes (even living with one), and going on surftrips with single girls, I will not give up internet dating or dating in general as I am looking for a partner.
    He called it shopping to see what I could get.He can call it what he wants, frankly, but unkess he asks for exclusivity or a committed relationship, that whole point is moot for me.

    The moving-in idea really was nothing other than him trying to help out with my financial situation and also for us to see more of each other….we both agreed it would onky be a temporary solution…honestly, I have way more to gain from it than he would and bringing CD’s home, when I am trying to survive financially, is not high on my priority list. I do not spend much time indoors at any rate.either he moves in or I sell up. That is a decision I have to make.

    I met his mom and dad (divorced) and I see why he is how he is, his mother is the same way, does not stop talking and totally easy going and chaotic, totally adhd, like he is…hoarding crap etc.
    Very sweet woman….the father polar opposite, like me very quiet and ‘proper’, responsible job, lovely well-kept modern condo. What once brought them together, I have no idea but I totally see me and him in them….it made me laugh a lot,
    In many ways we are like day and night.

    When I told him today how I felt, and I was also being a but harsh..but he seemed to get it. He also said he had been a brat and apologized…I like the guy, despite bumping heads, just unsure this can ever turn into anything. One step at a time….what I like and feels good is that despite getting riled easily, this man always stays in communication. He might be pissed and he might be ranting, but even yesterday we had a bad fight and ended up cuddling together….he is NOT afraid of conflict. He does not run.
    I like that about a man.

  152.  #152Kim on August 10, 2014 at 9:13 pm

    The other thing I find really interesting is that seemingly, it doesn’t matter how much a man is into you but we need to have good boundaries around commitment and valuing ourselves….my last two dating relationships showed me that even men who are really into you, will do as little as possible to get what they wang and it is up to us go lay down the law in some respects…very interesting to me!

  153.  #153Kim on August 10, 2014 at 9:18 pm

    ‘Get what they want’ typo.
    Meaning getting us with as little effort as possible and as little comitment as possible…and I guess we would do the same if the roles were reversed.
    When you hear men Talking of marriage amongst themselves, like I heard this weekend, I tell you it is not pretty. Younger men do not see it as something great tonachieve but rather a curtailment..and a nuisance.
    Many say they don’t want the hassle and can’t see themselves doing it – I am also wondering whether this is due to women seeing sex mire casual than previous generations,
    That whole ‘why buy the cow’ mentality seems to be the norm now. Kinda depressing,

  154.  #154Emerson on August 10, 2014 at 11:29 pm

    Thanks azur blue and nyx 🙂
    It feels good to read your comments.I feel heard.
    I had a good day taking care of me and taking care of business so i can have my life in order. I feel good about where my projects are going. My day was sprinkled with moments of shock realizing I am this age and this point in my life and I am single. I never predicted my future would look like this. It feels odd sometimes. I feel comfortable with myself and by myself, maybe because I have grown so used to it….I found myself really missing that feeling of being in love and grocery shopping with my man…just doing household stuff together.
    I really really miss that domestic part of a relationship. I miss the day trips and the walks around the neighborhood on work nights after dinner. I miss the family functions together and i miss the Christmas parties and getting dressed up for a party.
    I miss the closeness and the joking around and the plannign for the future.
    Today I found myself asking over and over ‘WHY am I alone?” Seriously the more I think about it the more it bothers me.

  155.  #155Emerson on August 10, 2014 at 11:33 pm

    I refuse to feel hopeless and I know there is no perfect man. I know there is someone out there who will really love me for me. At times I feel worthless. I find myself having thoughts like…I feel like maybe if I had nicer clothes, I would be worth more. Which I know is so silly. And totally against what I believe…
    I know I am worth a million and more…
    Sometimes it just takes some convincing when I look in the mirror and I dont look like a supermodel….but I’m still attractive and men respond to me..
    It just never lasts.
    I don’t know why. Feeling sad and a little lost. But also grateful.

  156.  #156Waterfall on August 11, 2014 at 2:21 am

    Hi Sirens,

    Love reading all of your posts 🙂

    @ Linda – something you said about not wanting a man in your life triggered me. I feel the same way but I felt an aching in my stomach when I read this.

    @ Kim – Wow, I so relate to your situation! I personally see big red flags for you and agree with all of Azure Blue & Feminine Womans point. Once you move in he may feel he can do even less to impress you.

    This all reminds me so much of my own relationship. I have been seeing D exclusively for a year and 2 months. I have finally plucked up the courage to split up with him. It was as difficult, if not worse than I thought it would be.

    He has been bombarding me with texts and emails all week. In a way that is okay I am happy to let him vent. There seems to be a pattern. He vents, he lets it all out and then he calms down and apologies to me. I just let him get on with it, as long as I don’t gave to see him I tell myself I will be alright.

    The problem arose yesterday. I had been out jogging and returned to my flat only to find him sitting in my living room. I jumped out of my skin and yelled at him to leave. He said he had come round to drop my spare keys off and pick his belongings up. He literally has just 2 pairs of shoes at my flat!

    OMG I felt terrified. Who does that to somebody??

    The main reason, he told me, for coming over was that he had been diagnosed with an under active thyroid and had been told had to take tablets for the rest of his life.

    He told me that because I hadn’t answered his emails & text messages he felt that I wouldn’t see him again.

    Anyway, it took hours for him to actually leave and in the end I was absolutely yelling, and yelling at him and telling him exactly what I thought of him.

    The scary thing is my ex also used to have some major issue happen whenever we split up. It was pathologically weird. Like he would feign illness or tell me his mum had been rushed to hospital etc…

    Anyway, he’s gone and he’s left the spare key. A male friend of mine is going to call him today and have a ‘chat’ with him. If all else fails I will call the police.

  157.  #157Waterfall on August 11, 2014 at 2:52 am

    What scares me is that I seem to attract men that turn me into their ‘mother figures’.

    I find this sooooo insulting.

    I am scared that deep down I don’t believe I will ever have a good relationship. On some level this dysfunctional relationship is what I want.

    I feel terrified…

    I feel tension in my back and tightness across my chest…

    My hands are clammy and my nose is runny..

    My hair is greasy and I feel bloated…

    I feel tension in my shoulders. My stomach is tight like I am breathing in…

    Love to me, forgiveness to me…

  158.  #158Waterfall on August 11, 2014 at 2:57 am

    Hmm, a thought has occurred to me. Maybe I am using my issues with D and all the baggage that comes with him, to neglect my own issues…??!

    I feel so drained and numb.

    I am sat on the settee feeling just awful…

    But part of me feels nothing. Like he has gone and I feel relief and this scares me.

    I feel superior to D in the sense that I know to get out of this dysfunctional relationship. He wants to continue in it…

    Yet I am really NOT superior – I am just acting that way?!!

    I am as confused and in a see of fog as he is…

  159.  #159Waterfall on August 11, 2014 at 3:02 am

    Wow, feel like I am having a massive panic attack now.. My stomach is churning…

  160.  #160Linda on August 11, 2014 at 5:06 am

    Waterfall…How terrifying that would be… finding the man you dont want in you life in the middle living room. Reminds me of P.. last summer I broke things off with him and was finally so relieved to have acted in my best interest. All on his own he decided that he would just come to my house and work in the yard…(something that had been sorely neglected because he expected me to be at his apartment every freekin moment I had free) … weeding putting down mulching.. I remember the feeling of shock and my the then bottom of my stomach dropping out. I was talking to my daughter on the phone when I pulled up in my driveway I saw trash laying in my front yard and then I saw the flower bed..I said. “Somebody has been working in my flower beds omg it must be P”! She said.. “Mom thats kinda creepy… nice, but just so does’nt come with strings”? Yeah it did.

    I tenatively received his gift .. complimented him, but asked him why? He said he knew it was a big job and it needed to be done. _( I thought to myself yeah suddenly things that I needed to get done become important after I break up with him !!) After a bit.. he said “are we going to get back together now”??

    I did try it again with him, but the same underlying things that killed the relationship for me never stopped they just morphed into other deal breaking things for me.

    I learned more about me. Its all good.. I feel closed to relationships right now. I am choosing single for right now.

  161.  #161Emerson on August 11, 2014 at 5:11 am

    Good morning sirens
    Today I intend to be optimistic

  162.  #162Emerson on August 11, 2014 at 5:20 am

    Hugs to you.
    I have been in a similar situation where my ex just showed up (after he cheated and then proceeded to stalk me)….
    I was furious. And creeped out. Finally he left me alone when realizing we are over. Thank you for sharing your experience and glad you did what is best for you. I felt superior to my ex as well. He had a lot of “issues” so at one point I “helped” him and yes I sass masking my own work I needed to do on myself. I still feel sad aBout the time I wasted but it wAs a learning experience.

    @linda you sound so good you are self assured and peaceful 🙂

  163.  #163Linda on August 11, 2014 at 6:29 am

    167 …. Waterfall, I know exactly how you are feeling!!!… relief, sadness, fear, anger grieving,loss . I said to myself so many times… LINDA! this is dysfunctional why are you letting it back into your life. It was not until I reached my fill of exploring the possibilities and maybe this or that… I Finally found the courage to close the door and KEEP it closed now.

    I realized that it felt nice to be pursued and be wanted. His not wanting to let go fed my ego. Not sure if this a bad thing but it is something I dont feel proud to admit though. ( I have usually had men leave not the other way around.) This is so foreign.

    Even though we were exclusive he would always bring up commitment. Commitment to him meant that you stayed no matter and worked on things. Thing was I did stay and try and try… it did not change. He was always unhappy and I was usually the reason in one way or another. I could not live like that the rest of my life. There was no way I could give him what he must need.

    Funny thing… he has been married three times and revolving door type relationships .. I wonder how commitment really works for him? Regardless since this about me..though I tried …there was just no way I could “commit” .

    I have learned so much about me. My boundries were tested and new ones were created. He is a good man, quite desirable to me in many many ways. It was VERY hard to let that go, but it was the right thing to do.

    No doubt you have encountered the same things … deal breakers with different jackets on.

    Hugs Waterfall

    FUnny this morning I let myself think. If I ever hear from him again

  164.  #164Kim on August 11, 2014 at 6:55 am

    Waterfall…whoa. I attract these types of men too (wanting a mother figure)…sometimes I do feel like all men, if they had a decent relationship with their mom, are looking for someone like her deep down…dunno.
    Hope you are feeling better.. :/

  165.  #165Indigo on August 11, 2014 at 6:56 am

    April Rose,


  166.  #166Kim on August 11, 2014 at 6:57 am

    Since wildchild always talks over me (it’s the way he is)….and that makes me either go quiet or defend myself, I have decided to put my thoughts on paper and if I hear from him, I will send him this.
    The thoughts and feelings are all about dating, commitment and the moving in thing and how it would feel to me at this point….
    Then I will feel better.
    I feel on the fence..

  167.  #167Indigo on August 11, 2014 at 6:58 am


    I totally agree about CDing! I can’t think why I was so resistant to it initially. It is a sanity saver.

    There are just too many advantages to list about not getting attached to someone who is not giving you the fully committed relationship that you want. For me, the biggest is the healing I have seen happen in myself.

    Love what you’ve said!

  168.  #168Kim on August 11, 2014 at 9:10 am

    Eh. I feel triggered. I spied on fb and saw right at the time we had an argument on Saturday, he was flirting with 25 year old pouty selfie picture girls on fb instead of focusing on sorting out our stuff.
    It is only one of two times I even looked at his fb, so I guess something led me there.
    I am not much into spying anymore, lol, but happy I saw that.
    I am not just inspired to lean back even more, I am inspired to topple the chair over by leaning back too far and falling off this whole thing LOL

  169.  #169Linda on August 11, 2014 at 9:19 am

    Beloved… I LOVE what you wrote @ 143 The middle part… of it. I identfy with this so much… only I would change the wording to… I led MYSELF on for me

  170.  #170Waterfall on August 11, 2014 at 9:46 am

    Fyi – there is a new thread up so I have posted this there as well:

    @ Linda – wow, it sounds like we were dating the same man!!

    Weirdly, I am not feeling better but worse! I still ache for him inside. I love him still and just hope I can stay away from him.

    I just keep making loads of excuses for him in my head. I keep thinking of the good times we had a someone to cuddle at night and feel extremely connected with. Lol, I will miss that!

    Arrrgghhh, so hard…

    He’s told my friend that he’s not going to contact me again. I feel a mess..

  171.  #171Indigo on August 11, 2014 at 10:21 am

    Kim 177,


    I just hope to goodness YOU are also flirting with cute, interesting men!

  172.  #172Kim on August 11, 2014 at 10:33 am

    Indigo..abso-frigging-lutely…this is what is driving him around the bend…I just set up a date for tomorrow.
    Wildchild told me I should be sorting my sh*t out instead of dating another guy every day of the week hahaha. I told him the one doesn’t have anything to do with the other…
    I think all his insecurities around that, plus my situation of not being sure if I can stay, drove him to drink and despair on Saturday…and to flirting with pouty selfie taking 25 year olds….and telling them how much he loved those ridiculous pictures…haha.
    Show me what you are made of little boy, else I will get bored very quickly….lol

  173.  #173Mandy on August 11, 2014 at 2:34 pm

    WHOA! GREAT article!

    I swear by my daily routine.

    Rori…I feel you…I have had a Thyroid issue beginning at puberty which turned into a condition that throws your hormones out of whack and makes nodules grow and make overactive cells in the Thyroid.

    Here’s my deal..I have to get it removed and then take Levothyroxine.

    I have the OPPOSITE problem…too much energy. I wake up bright eyed and bushy tailed and talkative as hell, ready to drop and give twenty, like a cheerleading soldier. But my guy feels irritated at this.

    He even broke up with a girl because she wouldn’t stop talking about politics in the very beginning of the day, and he couldn’t take it.

    So here’s where I’m at – I got the lethargy out by low-carbing and HIT training – and now my Thyroid’s coming out.

    I was JUST about to post on getting advice on how to dial it back and not close off…it’s is incredibly rough for me to dial back..I am an all-or-nothing woman, and men generally can’t stand ultimatums. You say it’s all this or nothing, he’ll say it’s going to be nothing, across the board.

    So…along with the whacked-out Thyroid, I think this will take things down a notch, at least I hope.

    Can anyone please fill me in on how to not close off, but how to dial it back, as it were? I know what both are, but I can’t seem to feel the middle ground out yet.

    I really need to riff in the bathtub, but I feel like I have so much energy I could run a mile…I think I will run then riff…I’ll try at least, even though I’ve felt unsuccessful, with all this energy…it really gets in the way of the melty feeling, it really does.

  174.  #174Kyla on August 11, 2014 at 8:15 pm

    Mandy, warmly let him know you are going out and then go throw all your energy and enthusiasm into you and your own passions. You can stay open by being warm and approachable and using feeling messages when you are responding to him. The pulling back thing really is just not leaning forward in anyway at all, total all-out-girl mode with him. No initiating conversation about anything, no filling in silences, no suggesting things to do and no doing anything for him at all unless he asks you to do AND you feel like it. So that might look like 2 people sitting around doing nothing in silence and you will feel itchy to create some interaction. If you get that itchy feeling it will make your vibe feel clingy/tense and you want to shift your vibe into a relaxed, happy, passionate about your life feeling instead. Get out of the house, hang out with friends, explore something new, take a class.. I find if I get really focused on anything brand new and exciting my vibe will shift dramatically and suddenly everyone wants to know what’s new with me!

  175.  #175Kyla on August 11, 2014 at 8:22 pm

    Mandy, leaning back completely like this and taking all your focus and energy back is better than any ultimatium because basically you start living the full, happy life you deserve RIGHT NOW without him and when he sees this he will know things have changed without any pressure from you or you ever telling him you want things to change. Then its up to him whether he wants to pursue you to keep your attention or not.. until you are feeling so strong and happy with your own life that you decide to cut him loose of course.

  176.  #176Mandy on August 12, 2014 at 12:13 pm

    Kyla – thank you and all the ladies on here for the suggestions, I am incredibly grateful for the insight…

    I feel like since I go to the gym three or four days a week and I get up before J and do a bunch of freelance work sometimes my time is too filled in and I need to clear it – I have an interesting situation, as I am on SSI and disabled, even though it doesn’t look that way on the outside; I can’t quite fill my time in too much because one, I don’t drive, two, Tourette’s Syndrome makes it sometimes nearly impossible to get out of the house and I end up disappointing people a lot. So it’s a constant struggle.

    I have always been one to suggest things to do, do things for him, begin conversation, and all that. I DO get itchy as can be!!! I get kind of irritated when I’m bored, I never understood it. I don’t like silence unless I am in the mood, I just always want to share.
    I might look into teaching, because I don’t take orders well (very oppositional-defiant) and I like to run the ship rather than be a grunt on it. I suppose it’s like learning to like your own company; I always liked my own company so much people have sometimes considered me a hermit, so I never had that problem, but I do feel uncomfy when I want so badly to say something and I have to hold it in…

    I am a control freak learning always to love the feminine side of life. That sounds awfully funny…feminine control-freak…oxy-moron 🙂

    I like the idea of crafting. J has seriously been pushing me to make things lately. I need some more yarn for my crocheting actually, and now with his job I have all kinds of free time and feel very free and in control of myself…and I love the feeling…AH…freedom…to do things with my hands, or dance around the apartment to music or sing in the shower or whatever it is that comes to mind…beautiful…awesome…

  177.  #177Beautiful_heart2015 on August 13, 2014 at 9:10 am

    Hi Rori,

    I just ordered your ‘Reconnect Your Relationship’ program but have not received it yet. I am at a loss. Last year I was in a horrible, abusive relationship – something that had never happened to me before (I’m educated, attractive, successful…). Ended badly, I also had been in an accident, lost my job – it was a terrible year. But in February, I was making a new start. I am working as a contractor on a new job I hope will turn permanent. I moved in a new home with my daughter on Feb. 15th and met a new man on Feb. 18th. We were both smitten. I had never known such a knight in shining armor. His name for me was ‘Sweetness’. We had a routine, he was over all the time as I live very close to where he works and he was just renting a room in an older lady’s house. We decided he should move in. We talked about marriage, everything was wonderful. We had a fight a month ago, nothing major, but he lets things out when he fights that have been bothering him – like that I let his towel get wet on the shower door or I don’t put my razor back in the right place and it falls when he is in there. Afterwards he seemed cold started getting picky about my shortcomings. Even said he really doesn’t like this side of town (I cannot move right now I have a daughter who is in high school – but he had no problem when he moved in). I know he cannot stand drama; he has been married twice – both had mental instabilities; the first took her own life after they had been divorced a few years. He doesn’t even like much drama on TV. The last few weeks he had said maybe he should move out and see if we could manage better, that there are some things about us that are not working. He said he definitely loved me but was not sure if he was in love with me anymore. The more he pulled, the more I was the one to initiate romance, try to make the house perfect, have jazz and candles burning when he got home, listen to him without interrupting or talking about my day, etc. Our sex life was phenomenal throughout, up until our crash almost a week ago. Last Thursday after dinner and watching TV together I said, honey, let’s go to bed, you are falling asleep (his head was bobbing). He said, you go ahead, it takes you a few minutes to get ready anyway, I am right behind you. I went up, got ready and laid down. He didn’t come. I started back down the stairs, and he said, ‘I’m coming’. So I went back up. We always bring something up to drink so after another while of waiting I went back down to get a glass of water to put by the bed and asked him why he wasn’t coming up. He said his tummy was funny and he was playing solitaire on his phone, he’d be up. Now to preface, this man is a Christian and has never cheated in his life and doesn’t believe in it; he would NEVER do it. Yet my ex before had cheated every time I walked out of the room and I have dealt with trust issues since; which my bf could not stand. And I said, ‘are you sure you are playing solitaire’? He jumped up and shouted “that is it, that is not the first time and I will NOT be accused of something I would never do! That is it, I am leaving tonight.” He ran around grabbing stuff while I cried and asked him to calm down and apologized and begged him to talk to me. He wouldn’t. That night, after he was out of the house, I was so hurt and mad we texted back and forth and I was very ugly to him on via text. All he said is he wanted the rest of his stuff, repeatedly. So cold. I was saying things that were below the belt and can’t be taken back. He is still reeling over those things and the accusation. Sunday, he came to get some things but would not stay for lunch and said we needed to let the dust settle to see if there can be an us; he hugged me tight, kissed me on the forehead, cheeks and lips. I have asked about dinner this week but the place he is staying is for this week where he is watching a friend’s house across town (metro area) and dog while the family is away and he has to go there and feed that dog. He doesn’t know where he is going to be living yet. He says he hasn’t figured out where he will move. No doubt, for what he is willing to pay it will be another random roommate situation. I just can’t believe, he’d want to leave the loving home and the nice life we had. He loves cooking and he cooked every night and we enjoyed that. He now says that my physical problems which currently keep me from being more active are a problem for him now. I am going through some things to try to overcome these things – he likes to scuba dive, etc. but it won’t be instantaneous. Thing is, he knew all of this when he moved in and proclaimed his undying love and wanted to know if I would marry him someday.
    I would do ANYTHING for him to come home. We are talking, he called yesterday after work and I was out and he said he would call back in a bit. After I got home I texted to ask if he was going to call and he said yes I am watching something I will call soon. He never did. I texted, “still on?’ and he didn’t answer until this morning when he texted, “Sorry about last night. I talked to my son and then dozed off. Have a great day!” I am so heartbroken. This is someone I was sharing my life with in every way; he’d text during the day, he’d call on the way home to see what we were going to have for dinner and we’d plan weekend things or work on the house. Now he is gone. And his life is none of my biz. He says maybe we can regroup after the dust settles. I have profusely apologized for the ugly things I said and told him that they were not true, I wanted to hurt him as much as he hurt me. He understands, but says he still has a lot to think about. We are not kids. I am in my late forties and he is in his mid fifties. I have done online dating, etc. It is so hard, very few men are decent. And he is wonderful. We had something wonderful. How do I get it back?

    Thank you,


  178.  #178Miss Bells on August 13, 2014 at 11:21 am

    This post really hit a nerve with me. I have been suffering from something weird and debilitating for about five years, beyond the low thyroid that was supposed to be “all in my head” till I found a doctor that would prescribe Armour. But this other thing makes me swell up in the face, hands and feet, hives all over, IBS, joint pain, GERD,pain in spleen, and that’s just the beginning. I was at my wit’s end when I googled GERD and Hives, and out popped REAMS of info on Histamine Intolerance, which I had never heard of. I cleared all the high histamine food and chemical triggers out. I discovered HISTAME, an enzyme that replaces the DAO that digests histamines. With more research I discovered that I have a Mast Cell Activation Disorder. I can control it fairly well with supplements and a really unpleasant restricted diet. But, sadly, this too is a disfavored disease in the conventional medical community. I may never get a real diagnosis. But, the protocol works for me, and I wouldn’t take their drugs anyhow.

  179.  #179Miss Bells on August 13, 2014 at 11:23 am

    And–I forgot– I am Mega Excited about my new money coaching business. I am offering a program that dives DEEP into patterns so you can change them and let in the abundance you deserve and desire! WOOT!

  180.  #180Violette on August 13, 2014 at 11:38 am

    I gave my number to a guy on POF and he texted me yesterday…saying hey what’s up, and I replied that I could speak on the phone on Thurs. He replied, a few hours later, “what you can’t speak to me now?” Then another “?????”. It repulsed me, I absolutely shudder at my time being manhandled by a man who doesn’t know me at all. I replied this morning, messaging the site so he wouldn’t answer on my phone, that I felt I had been clear about when I was free to speak, that I felt pushed and pressured and turned off, that I was no longer interested in continuing further. His reply was that he felt turned off I couldn’t reply to his simple text and that I needed to lose the attitude.

  181.  #181Violette on August 13, 2014 at 11:39 am

    There is so much trash on that site.

  182.  #182Violette on August 13, 2014 at 11:41 am

    Another guy from the site has been texting, we haven’t connected, he seems to want to make an appointment to speak on the phone, rather than just call, and I don’t know when I’ll be free, and I wish he would just call and let me call him back. I said this morning, please call whenever you want and if I can’t answer I will call you back.

    I prefer when men just make a date to meet on the site, and we meet, not this ridiculous planning of the future communication.

  183.  #183Violette on August 13, 2014 at 11:49 am

    I was out of town with friends this weekend, one was a 30 year old guy in finance, my 45 year old singer girlfriend and I asked him and a 23 year old French guy if they cared about the woman’s age. The 30 year old said he wanted a girl in her 20’s because he wanted to have kids. It triggered me! The 23 year old said he just wanted to be happy with the person.

    Men in my new town have actually said that to me, at 35, that I’m too old! What is wrong with them? I feel frightened of this new environment, that there are men showing up who view a woman as a machine essentially to pop out their babies. Of course I know this is a pov that comes out of men who aren’t looking to have a great love but to create jealousy in their work environment, they want to appeal to an image that is not interesting to me, so why do I care about them? I don’t, I just feel freaked that I haven’t previously known what I was dealing with.

    I think our reactions scared the guy and he removed himself to take a shower! I went to get him and actually apologized, told him we wanted him in the group and sorry to scare him, he can be whoever he wants and we still like him. I actually felt sorry for him he was so scared!

  184.  #184Rori Raye on August 13, 2014 at 3:50 pm

    Beautiful – The absolutely best thing I can offer you (besides Reconnect Your Relationship, which is fantastic, still one of my favorite of my programs – AND – you should be able to download it from your computer NOW – INSTANTLY!- Don’t wait for the CD’s to arrive – just start listening from your computer or phone right now!) – is my new coaches! Go to the sidebar, look at “Directory of Coaches” and try them out! Love, Rori

  185.  #185prplpsn28 on August 13, 2014 at 4:28 pm

    I have the RR complete collection that I purchased probably a year ago and I’ve only read the ebook and listened to about half of Modern Siren. MY BAD!! DUH! I’m sure this would have been helping me all along. Sooo….at this point in time and considering what has happened with H, which is the best program to start with? Targeting Mr Right? Reconnect Your Relationship?

  186.  #186Kyla on August 13, 2014 at 4:47 pm

    Purple I would do targetting mr right and modern siren first and more importantly actually practice and use the tools in the real world. the most helpful thing for me was keeping a journal of my feelings, what tools i practiced with who and where, what results i noticed and looking back over my journal regularly to see what patterns and themes were showing up to point out what areas needed my attention. I was a rori student for 4 years with ok results but things only really changed for me when i started putting the programs into practice and tracking my progress through journaling and the blog.

  187.  #187Kyla on August 13, 2014 at 4:51 pm

    Glad it was helpful Mandy! I was always leaning forward and overfunctioning in those ways as I hated the silence and lack of action too, made me feel bored, distressed and eager to initiate anything! Rori told me to STOP and while it was seriously uncomfortable and counter intuitive for a while until I got completely caught up in a new project that absorbed all my attention it really did work miraculously and not just in my intimate relationships!

  188.  #188prplpsn28 on August 13, 2014 at 4:56 pm

    Actually I had only gotten as far as section 3 in Reconnect Your Relationship. I found my journal that I was taking notes in. This is a part of section 2: “When he gets that feeling of being made wrong he stops trusting. He doesn’t trust us to say straight out that we are impatient and frustrated. What he sees is an angry women with a smile that doesn’t fit her feelings. And he’ll shut his heart.” I honestly believe this is what happened. And why H has pulled away completely. Any way of fixing this other then to do what I have been doing? Which is giving him his space.

    My digital access code has expired so I cannot access the programs right now. Waiting for the RR support team to get back to me. Ugh

  189.  #189prplpsn28 on August 13, 2014 at 4:58 pm

    Kyla…thanks for the tips 🙂

  190.  #190Indigo on August 14, 2014 at 2:07 am

    Beautiful Heart,

    Your post really struck a chord with me as I’ve been through the same thing with D, the man I am now seeing, along with others.

    Just some suggestions for where you are right now:

    * If he says the dust needs to settle before you can make any further decisions, then let it. No contacting him. Let him come to you. And if he doesn’t call back, don’t ask or pester about it. Just let him contact you to talk if he will.
    * I don’t really think this fight you had was about you, although I have also made the mistake of asking the “innocent question” ie. what are you doing? (which to him feels like major distrust). I think it had more to do with him feeling overwhelmed and like it was all a bit much for him. Him leaving in the middle of the night was just him desperately needing to take space – not about you doing anything wrong. I have experienced this before. Just let him have his space. You don’t need to apologise profusely or beat yourself up.
    * Try put your focus back on you. Take wonderful care of yourself, organise fun and lovely things for yourself to do, spend time with people who make you feel good, explore your passions and interests. It seems to me like maybe since he moved in you may have been in overfunctioning or smothering mode, with your focus on him. Bring it back to you and your care and your heart, and what feels good to you, where it should be. This will feel better to him too.
    * I also made the possible mistake of moving in with D far too quickly. This put a great deal of pressure on our relationship and brought all our issues to the surface in record time. If you can let things unfold at a more natural, organic, slower pace I think it will be better for your relationship. It will allow for more mystery and space in your relationship, which is good for romance, and will allow trust to build and for you each to work on your “stuff”. And in the meantime, you can concentrate on your life and putting the focus back on you, even Circular Dating 🙂

  191.  #191Daria on August 16, 2014 at 2:46 am

    oooh haven’t read this yet, but feeling xctied… what Rori’s gonna talk about, health , energy drain… I’ve been dealing with it too and I found GREAT ways to heal yayyyyyyyyyyy!

    thanks for the syncronicity

  192.  #192Daria on August 16, 2014 at 2:52 am

    ooooh I have SO MUCH to share on this!

    and much to share on this low energy stuff specificially

    for now… babysteps on healing still!

    feeling much more powerful

  193.  #193IamHis on August 16, 2014 at 10:58 am

    I feel kind of discouraged. I went on a date a couple of days ago that left me feeling…really surprised about myself.

    He was asking me about my interests…and I didn’t feel connected to them. It was more like a “I used to like to do this…” kind of thing.

    I’ve been struggling with depression. What is it that Rori says about depression? It’s about not feeling your feelings, isn’t it?

    Usually a lot of anger that is unexpressed, right?

    On this date, I used feeling messages. I noticed myself becoming really defensive. I didn’t feel safe with him. I felt…bigger. Not just physically (he was a smaller guy) but…in every way.

    It felt like he was talking down to me.

    I told him it felt exhausting talking to him. He felt bad about that, I could tell, tried to change the subject, kept using the word “we” for things we could do together.

    I felt myself shutting down.

    Every once in a while a deep anger or sadness comes up, but it’s hard to pinpoint why it’s there. Not necessarily on dates, sometimes just when I’m talking to a guy through text.

    Maybe I need to notice what triggers it.

    Talking about sex or my inexperience with men TO men…being asked about these things…triggers it.

    Being asked why I believe what I believe what I believe triggers it.

    Occasionally, I will feel surprised by joy or hope…but they feel so fleeting.

    I rarely feel joy or hope when talking to men. There’s my one guy friend who is in town visiting who makes me feel really good and safe when I’m with him…but I also feel terrified with him, because leaving him or when he leaves me feels so sad. Sometimes I feel him pushing him away and that feels really bad. Sometimes I want to run away from him, too.

    I found myself giggling in warm ocean water at sunset. it felt so good and I felt surprised to feel so good.

    I felt good last night. With friends who have known me for a long time.

    I felt…hope…while reading a book. I was reading a book and a new thought…a hopeful thought…crossed my mind and I felt a split second of pure joy and I felt frantic to hold onto it. It was like my brain was screaming “You used to know these secrets of joy…you’re so close, you’re so close!”

    I feel teary now.

    I practiced just feeling okay today; standing around people, being around people. It felt so strange.

    I feel disconnected from people.

    I feel sad because I want reasons behind these feelings.

    I just want to feel good.

    I just want to feel safe.

    I feel safe alone in my car.

    That’s one of the only places I’ve ever felt completely safe.

    It’s a place that is completely mine. I can keep it messy. I can sleep without being watched or judged.

    That’s a really weird thing I just said.

    I feel guilty for sleeping? I’ve been sleeping too much due to my depression, I think. Hmm.

    I’ve been feeling this need to hide lately.

    I’m not sure what I’m hiding from.

    I don’t want to be “found out.”

    but what is there to “find out” about me that’s so embarrassing to be “found out?”

    I don’t know, and that feels scary.

    I feel really alone and not sure what to do.

    Empathy would feel great.

    Can anyone empathize with any of these feelings? What triggered your similar feelings? What did you learn about yourself from them?

    I feel cold.


  194.  #194April Rose on September 3, 2014 at 6:13 am

    Hi Rori,

    I’m FINALLY taking nutrition seriously, after years of fluctuating energy levels and digestive issues.

    Blood tests show I am anaemic. I have asked my doctor for the test for coeliac. I strongly suspect candida.

    I am tempted to eat only fish and vegetables and then gradually introduce other foods, experiencing which ones feel good and energy-giving.

    I would have gone on a lot longer ‘living with it’ if it hadn’t been for you and your inspiring story.
    Thank you so much.