Half-Truths, Lies and Withholding Make For No Love

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Here’s a letter from Ann, and my answer is perhaps “harsh” – and sometimes that’s what we all need – another perspective from someone who doesn’t know you. And that’s what we’re all doing for each other here!

“Rori, Well, I have been reading just about everything I can find at this site and others and have found some “ah ha” moments in everyone’s comments. . . I just wanted to throw my situation out here and see what others, an especially Rori’s, opinion may be:

I have been with the same man for 24 years, married for 22 years, we have three grown children that I stayed home and raised. During the course of the years I have ventured out and mostly finished my schooling while raising the kids, taking care of our home, and being there for my husband when ever he was at home, (he drove over the road for several years and just quit doing so about 8 years ago).

Over the years I had learn that while he was gone he had what he calls a “private life.” This private life consisted of various degrees of porn but I never thought he ever became physically or emotionally involved with anyone other then me. Over the span of 12 to 15 years I believed everything my husband ever told me. Ranging from very important topics to very minute discussions because he was always a man of integrity to me and our kids. He lived by the saying, “I don’t like liars and don’t have any time of day for them.”

Well, as I began to grow and change I found out that during his brief stays at home and eventually when he was home full time that when we were talking just about anything that he would only tell me incomplete stories, or the half truth of a situation so I, in his words, wouldn’t have to deal with the problem or what she doesn’t know won’t hurt her.

After catching him several, several times over the years regarding his half truths, I could not longer believe a word that came out of his mouth and became very bitter, angry, hurt, and shut down in our relationship. I also became very suspicious of his every movement and lost the “trust factor” in our lives. I felt like I was being replaced by the porn, be it magazines, vhs, dvd’s, or what ever he could find free on the computer. I shut down even more and so did our sex life for the last 5 years.

In more recent events I thought I would give our relationship one more saving grace, and instead of taking a vacation alone that we would go together. This was a huge dilemma on his part and he just had a real hard time committing to going but finally did. I thought we had a great week . . .the first time we have been alone for entire week without our kids . . .

Three weeks after our vacation things were back to “normal” no communication, half truths, and complete seclusion from one another. He works third shift in a “factory” and I was up very late working on a paper for work and decide to reach out and do what I thought at the time was a thoughtful jester and take him lunch. As I got to the parking lot I saw my husband getting into his car with a female co-worker.

They sat and talked, laughed etc . . .I was shocked and ended up sitting in my car the entire night trying to believe what my eyes just saw. I never told him . . .I kept it to myself. A week later he approached me and told me that he still loved me but wasn’t in love with me and asked me how I felt. I told him that I loved him and was still in love with him & I had to leave the discussion because all I could envision was him in the car with her . . . Two days following I asked him if we could talk some more and that I thought maybe if we could look at our relationship and try to date one another that might help . . .he agreed! I was happy and thought that this might work for us.

The next morning before I left for work and he was coming home I could see rage in his eyes and asked what was going on . . .”Some guy at work approached XXXXX (female co-worker) & asked her if she and I were having an affair.” I kept my mouth shut because I was wondering the same thing . . .I then stated, “I don’t know what you want me to say, but all I can tell you is if you approach this “guy” and say anything to him then you will be admitting to having an affair w/XXXXX.”

All I have ever asked for in our relationship have been 5 things that tie together and one doesn’t work without the other: Communication, The Truth not Half Truths, Transparency, No Hiding (shut down), and to be 50/50 in all Major Decisions.

Two more days later, that morning as my husband began to leave work he called me and asked if I wanted to meet for caffee at the cafe in town! i thought great maybe he is going to try this dating thing . . .Sure I will be right down. Then he said, ” well XXXXX is going to go with us since she wants to go over her notes from work and I only have a $1 on me so can you bring the checkbook with you?” I said “NO! Enjoy your morning I have better things to do!” and hung up! He came home an hour and a half later . . ..I had already left the house . . .They weren’t at the cafe . . .I drove by there.

Later that night holding my composure as we where out with our daughter and getting back into the car, she heard/saw her Dad’s cell phone go off and told him that someone was calling: He had a major panic attack!!! He said it was work and that he was off that weekend and wasn’t going to answer. Well our youngest son also works there and was working that night. I told him to call back to make sure he was okay . . .My husband hesitated, and didn’t want to, took his sweet time to compose himself thinking that I or our daughter didn’t see the panic in his voice or demeanor. He finally called work, the supervisor said our son was fine but maybe he called and he would check. My husband hung up the phone and guarded his phone like a pit bull in heat for the rest of the night . . .He even slept on his phone that is how panicked he was.

The next morning, as my husband was in the shower, I heard his phone ring from underneath his pillow. It was actually a text message under the name of the company that he works for. . . .A factory doesn’t have texting compatibilities . . . Odd, So I picked up the phone and the message simply read: “sooo sorry!” I looked at the number and jotted it down quickly and found it to be a cell number that you can’t trace on like to the owner. I called the number and the XXXXX answered the phone. I quickly hung up put the phone back where I found it. I got all the kids out of the house and made it look like to my husband we had the whole day to ourselves. After he got out of the shower . . .He was happy go lucky and there was not a sign of panic in him at all. And had to calm down I was shaking like a leaf and so many things were running through my mind.

Finally, after I reached my calm and we were driving down the road, I exclaimed, “So tell me when you jumped into XXXXX car yesterday and drove off from work doesn’t that make it look like something is gong on with you two?” He said, “I never thought of it that way.” So tell me I said,”What does it look like or mean when you hid her phone number under the company name and she text you “sooo sorry”?” he slammed on the brakes of the car and tried to turn around and go home . . . I wouldn’t let him. You see if we would have gone home he wouldn’t have talked to me he would have only hidden in our bedroom for the remainder of the day.

To finish this long, long story, I took his phone and began texting her . . .As soon as I said (acting like I was my husband) that I needed to make a decision if I was staying or going this marriage I need to know where I stand with you . . . .She ran as fast as a cheetah!!! She said she needed to give her marriage a shot one more time, made the point that his kids were grown and how would you deal with helping raise mine (He would run because he didn’t raise his own kids) . . .Once I told the F*&%$ B(&^%$ that she was talking to me not my husband. She simply replied “I C” Then about ten minutes later she text again “well maybe if you would show your husband some affection we wouldn’t be in this mess!” Well, she pushed my button and I sent all the text messages to her husbands phone with an explanation of the situation. She hasn’t texted or spoke with my husband since!

Right at this moment I know that all the things I have ever asked for in my marriage he gave to XXXXX female co-worker, and only kissed her once. If I hadn’t found the phone that morning with her text . . .they would probably be sleeping together. We are trying to work on our marriage. . . .I am still on the fence if I should stay or go . . .Or will the future just continue to be riddled with half truths . . . Any and all opinions are welcome . . .
Thxs Ann”

Ann, Welcome, and you’re not going to like this.

Don’t read if you don’t want to hear.

Your letter is fabulously dramatic, movie-worthy, and for every half-truth he told, so did you.

Truth isn’t something you withhold because the other person is.

To withhold sex and affection from your husband because you don’t trust him is no less insane than what he was doing with this imaginary relationship he developed in his mind.

To snoop in his phone because you can’t speak plainly to him is all within your control.

If I was uncomfortable with what a man was saying to me because I believed there was something else going on, I’d talk with him about it. And if talk wasn’t enough, I’d consider leaving at that point.

To drag on a marriage that is not a marriage for 5 years because you can’t get at the truth is not a good option for anyone of us (and yet – I hear about this situation happening all the time).

If you are now “working” on your marriage TOGETHER – then all this was a GOOD thing. Thank that woman.

Someone in an emotional logjam has to go first…and that’s YOU.

Learn here how to speak in Feeling Messages. How to Listen at Level 2 (in the ebook) to a man.

And most of all: to replace your instinctive defense system with compassion for yourself and love for yourself.

This is not about what “he did” or “didn’t do.”  It’s not about his lying, or your avoidance of the truth and, therefore, emotional intimacy, about all the anger between you…it’s none of that.

It’s all about fear, and habit, and upbringing, and letting your subconscious, traumatic patterns take you over and run you and steal your life from you.

Now’s the time to dig into yourself.  Find out who you are – and let him see who you are.  Get counseling if you think that might help – anything to get you talking TO and WITH each other – not behind each other.

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1crystal on October 11, 2010 at 8:09 am

    Hi –
    I posted this on the other topic sorry if this is a duplicate – i’m kind of new to the RR site.

    There’s this guy I really like…Mr Immigration. We’ve hung out a few times and since then he has asked me out many times over the summer, to which I had to say no due to being out of town. We had 2 more scheduled dates that he had to cancel due to sudden work travel. He sent me many texts about how he couldn’t wait to see me, and is very interested in seeing me if i can handle is ever changing work schedule.

    A 3rd time he asked me again and said he was coming to my town. He lives 3 hrs away. So seeing that it was going to be a Friday and he would have a 3 hr drive after working all day, I invited him to come for dinner. At 5pm that Friday, he texted me that he wouldn’t arrive until 11-11:30pm, and asked if we could just do it the next evening, after the baseball game? Well, “after the baseball game” made me feel upset and I didn’t like feeling like his last priority so I responded and said “Oh. That’s too bad. I already have plans for tomorrow night. Maybe next time.”

    Update – he sent me a message last night saying he misses me. I feel happy to hear from him and don’t want to screw up this “do over”. And I realize now that I shouldn’t have invited him for dinner (thank you Sirens! as i was giving more than receiving and driving the social part of the relationship).

    I’m tired of texting and emailing; and I don’t want to feel unimportant to someone. He comes up here alot on weekends as this is his hometown and he’s trying to get transferred back with his job so it’s not impossible for us to date.

    Any advice on how to respond to his message would be welcome! I want to get this “do over” right!

  2.  #2Brenda on October 11, 2010 at 8:13 am

    Hi Crystal,

    I think you yourself made a good feeling message:

    “I’m tired of texting and emailing; and I don’t want to feel unimportant to someone.”

    All you need to add is, “What do you think?” Just speak from your feminine center!

  3.  #3Brenda on October 11, 2010 at 8:16 am

    About this new article, I think Ann put up with waaaay too much garbage and should have gotten out years ago. We want it to work, and we hang on out of love. But I’ve found through experience that when you cut the bullshit by leaving, then that creates a huge, instant shift. The relationship either goes one way or the other. It makes a huge statment, “I am not going to put up with your bullshit!” Leaving underlines it and says, “I mean it!” Then bye-bye to the drama! We deserve better than that!

  4.  #4crystal on October 11, 2010 at 9:10 am

    Thanks Brenda. Do you think I should say “I’m surprised and happy to hear from you?”

    And I agree re: your advice for Ann…

  5.  #5Meemee on October 11, 2010 at 9:10 am

    Hi all,
    I feel completely drained out after a hectic day’s work.
    I met him in the office. I didn’t look at him, I didn’t smile, I didn’t even say a hi. I got into my room everytime I saw him, put the music on and tried to read or do some other work.
    Later in the day, he came to my room with a book. He wanted to know what I felt about that book etc. Thankfully my friend was in my room with me. She answered his questions and when he asked “can you read this and write a review for me”, she took the book from him and said she will do that. She does not know anything about our relationship, but I was happy she answered him. Then he left the room. I was feeling so horrible after seeing him face to face. When I got out the room, I saw him standing next to my room, looking at me. I felt I am crumbling dowm. I all of a sudden started feeling weak and sad. I went out, went to the balcony, smoked a cigarrette, had a tea.
    A guy from my church, whom I know for several years had invited me for a coffee. I never found this guy interesting. But I said yes to him. Went out for a coffee with him. I can’t say I enjoyed his company, or I was imressed with him. But I felt so much at ease with myself when I was with this guy. We talked about lot of things- his job, a book he is writing, my job, research, our friends etc etc. I could talk to him without any reservations. I was simply being myself. I felt good about it.
    I am feeling tired. I have a bad headache. And my allergy is slightly worse today. That is making me feel irritated too.

  6.  #6Meemee on October 11, 2010 at 9:13 am

    I think I will have to agree with you 100% on what you have said about ann’s post.
    Whats the job interview scene?

  7.  #7Daria on October 11, 2010 at 9:34 am

    Brenda and Meemee – I think you guys are missing the point about this post.

  8.  #8Brenda on October 11, 2010 at 9:52 am

    Crystal – Yes on the feeling message.

    Meemee, thanks for asking. I posted it in the last thread. No offense, I just don’t have much time these days.

    Daria, What is the point of this post in your perception? I am just speaking from a viewpoint of someone who was lied to over and over and am fed up with it. I won’t put up with lies anymore. Period.

  9.  #9Meemee on October 11, 2010 at 9:56 am

    Brenda, will find that one out :). No issues.

  10.  #10Turtle Girl on October 11, 2010 at 10:00 am

    #7 Daria. I could not agree more.

    The post is not about what this man did or did not do. It is about our own boundaries, self esteem and honesty. It is about what we will allow for US. Our happiness. Our truth.

  11.  #11Meemee on October 11, 2010 at 10:09 am

    But isn’t deciding not to put up with certain things a way of setting our own boundaries? being honest with ourselves? a way of getting our self esteem back?
    I am just thinking aloud. wondering am i missing something.

  12.  #12Renee on October 11, 2010 at 10:15 am

    Brenda — I’m with you. I think he began the pattern of deception and while I agree she could have handled it better, she put up with quite a bit to save this marriage.

    And I don’t get how you’re supposed to have sex with someone you don’t feel you can trust…I have to feel there’s a level of connection and trust there to open myself up like that.

  13.  #13Masculinewoman on October 11, 2010 at 10:29 am

    I enjoyed reading the post and have to agree with assessments of #10 and 11. The actions can be interpreted as conniving and calculating and there was a movie I watched, can’t remember the name right now that the guy reacted to his fiance that was how he saw her. The plot was his long time ex had become a drug addict/prostitute on the streets and had reached out to him in time of need. His fiancee was the lawyer for the prosecution and fixed up her case so that she was being put away for a long time. His friend worked with the fiancee and saw the records and advised him. He ended up made with the fiancee because of all the hiding and planning she did behind him to get the ex out of his life in an attempt to the keep his attention and their marriage plans moving forward. He told her he could not forgive her and was afraid those qualities could play out later in their life together.

    I like RR’s comments as they are pointed at Ann coming back to herself and her actions and are consistent with what RR is about. Reading the post I myself felt she kept up the charade for too long and was saving information for future use that felt unnatural too me as I tend to be direct. I have proven in relationships that being direct can cause immediate blow ups with either gender but when we go back to open communication it builds stronger relationships. This I have tested with both men and women and have realized the same results. I am not comfortable with leaning back or expressing feeling messages with men but I have found that the truly masculine men really respond to this. I am also very shaky about really getting in touch with how I am feeling in the moment and expressing it but reading how the written saved evidence and maintained calm until later just felt to me too similar to what I consider premeditated murder and can understand, if I was wearing her husband’s shoe how I would also be shocked and pannicked. I remember reading in CC’s writing that communication is the “response” you get and seeking to understand before seeking to be understood. I think it is very applicable in this scenario. Unfortunately I sense this person wants to be the victim and treasures evidence of proof. I feel triggered and judgemental just reading what I have written here and I really don’t want to be judgemental of the writer but wanted to verbalize my thoughts as part of my practice getting him touch with myself to see how I felt looking at them.

  14.  #14crystal on October 11, 2010 at 10:36 am

    I think there was a lot more deception than what Ann has uncovered. I agree that a wife shouldn’t “punish” a husband by witholding sex. The next time around for me though, I’ll listen more to my inner voice and not keep my emotions and feelings tucked away out of fear of losing him. I’ll speak up sooner and hopefully have meaningful communication and sharing instead of hurt feelings leading to a wall. Which as in Ann’s case, seems to have driven them further apart and the husband to look outside of the marriage for companionship and more.

    At this point though, I don’t see how she could do anything other than leave him. If they want to work on it while separated, that’s fine. But for her own self respect and self preservation, how can she stay?

  15.  #15Katarina Phang on October 11, 2010 at 10:51 am

    I think my feeling for my husband shifted quite a bit. It’s no longer longing, crazy in love anymore. SG opened my eyes I could have it much easier and more fun with a man who matches me better. A man who doesn’t hold back expressing his love and adoration for you and makes you feel good each time you talk to/see him. I find my hubby way complicated and austere right now and I’m losing my patience. Life is too short.

    We spent time together last night and I didn’t feel the way I used to feel anymore (apart from a little concern out of care that he looked skinnier now). I’m not gonna rush making a decision but you see feelings change all the time.

    SG and I had a webcam chat last night and toward the end he said so sweetly, “I love you, wife.” (He’s been talking -half jokingly- about he needs me as a wife a week every month so he can still have his male freedom…yeah sure, I said. 🙂 )

  16.  #16Mercedes on October 11, 2010 at 10:59 am


    On all sides…

    Much Love,

  17.  #17Simply Shannon on October 11, 2010 at 11:00 am

    I can totally relate to this article. I blamed my ex for lying and half truths. Now I know that I lied too. I told half truths. When I said “I love you” that was a half truth. When I said “I’m fine” that was a half truth. How can I blame him for not telling the truth when I didn’t?

    Words out of my mouth – You SOB, I hate you. You spend all this time away from home. You’ve left me alone with two screaming children. Alcohol is more important to you than me. You’re a terrible husband and father.

    Truth – Our marriage feels broken. I don’t know how to fix it. I feel miserable being at home with two screaming children. I don’t want to feel alone anymore. I miss dates. I miss intimacy. I feel afraid I’m a bad wife and a bad mother.

  18.  #18Jennifer on October 11, 2010 at 11:24 am

    I can relate to this article.
    B was on the porn all the time too.
    I HID my pain from him, when he aked if i was ok, I frequently said…sure.
    That’s on me.
    I think however I needed to get to the place where I said….yeah, I hid my pain from you. I refused to cry infront of you, I cried in bed in the spare room alone at night. I did that. But lying to me in the first place is my boundary. It will not be tolerated.
    I have a hard time withe concept of showing my pain.
    If I feel hurt by someone, the poker face comes down fast.
    I can stand in the middle of the room, humilitated and no one will know the difference.
    It feels too scary to me not to use this defence mechanism.
    I feel a little resentful of these ideas too. Like B kept saying “why didn’t you tell me you were crying…”
    I keep thinking…..why would you do things that reasonable people would know would make me cry in the first place? How is the problem my fault for not showing you my pain and not yours for causing the pain in the first place?
    So my sin is in not showing pain.
    But his is in causing it in the first place.
    I feel tight in my chest about this.
    Like panic.
    Like being blamed.
    Like it’s all my fault anyway….no matter what he did.
    Or how many times.
    I feel tight in my throat.
    I feel smal and cringing.

  19.  #19Simply Shannon on October 11, 2010 at 11:37 am

    Jennifer, My smile is my mask too. I can hardly believe how many people believed I was okay all that time. A friggin’ super hero with red cape blazing when they KNEW I was home alone with two screaming children. Like seriously?

    But if someone asks me “how are you?” and I say point blank “I’m fine” with a smile on my face, what else can anyone do? Short of holding me down and forcing me to face the truth? *I* denied the truth to myself.

    My ex had a porn problem too. He’d go to the bonus room for hours while I masturbated in the bedroom. And then when we were together, I imagined him thinking about those women, which made me want sex with him even less. We both denied how lonely we felt. We both went searching for anything that would feel good or numb us out. We both did that to each other and to ourselves.

    It is what it was. I forgive myself for how I was then. I don’t want to be that girl anymore. I’ve retired my Pollyanna mask.

  20.  #20Jennifer on October 11, 2010 at 11:47 am

    SS………I don’t want to be that girl either.
    I guess I don’t know what else to do.
    I’m working on it.
    It’s a bit of a sticking point really. In my family if I tell them they’ve hurt me…it’s like “sowhat?”
    It was like that with B too. I feel like I told him 100 times how I felt about the porn. For gawd’s sake…I’ve Been “under the desk” trying to get his attention, begging for sex…and gotten nowhere. gotten the starfish.
    I guess I just shut down out of futility.
    I literally told him “that humiliates me. That makes me feel like you’re thinking of other those other women when we’re having sex. I can’t compete with them. They don’t have bad days, or pms, or colds or crazy mothers. I feel like I’m losing a battle I don’t even know how to fight.”
    Still nothing.
    Still, you’re right. It is what it was. And it’s over.
    I guess I’m just so friggin terrified of going through all of that again.
    And then being blamed again.
    The closest he ever came to accepting any of the responsibility of the mess we created was to say “we couldn’t tell each other when we were hurt”

  21.  #21Jennifer on October 11, 2010 at 11:53 am

    And I too find it bizzare how many people don’t know what i’m feeling.
    I guess the poker face must be pretty good.
    My father thought i was ok just a few months after having left B.
    Thought. I . Was. Fine.
    Even thought I’m so terrified of men I break out in a sweat just contacting them online.
    Maybe I’ll experiment and start asking people how THEY think I’m doing.
    Sometimes I wonder if B is as damaged as me.

  22.  #22Brenda on October 11, 2010 at 11:58 am

    What I’ve found effective is to imagine my heart pain as physical pain. When someone hurts me, I sometimes say something like, “I feel like I was just hit by a car and left with a broken leg, bleeding, on the middle of the road in the middle of winter.”

    If someone doesn’t respond to that with some level of compassion, then they don’t deserve to be in my life.

  23.  #23crystal on October 11, 2010 at 11:59 am

    It’s interesting how other people have an idea of how long it should take you to get over something. People in my life think I’m fine to, not because I told them so, just because they don’t ask and therefore don’t know any differently. There’s only a few people I’ve confided in since I left my abusive husband last year. I’m on the healing path now, but it’s been a long road.

  24.  #24Siena on October 11, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    I went to a conference this weekend with one of the guys who was featured in The Secret. I have a crush on him now (but that’s not the point, hehe).

    He gave us a tool, which feels really bizarre… but I used it this morning with fantastic results, and wanted to share!

    He said: Every morning, before you leave the house or start your day, imagine you have just received a phone call with the most incredible news you have ever heard. Spend 3 minutes jumping up and down, “whoo-hooing”, fist pumping, clapping, laughing — all the things you would do if you had REALLY received the phone call. Do this because your thoughts become things – what you think about you bring about.

    So I did it and felt a little like an idiot, and then left to walk to Starbucks. I tied up my dog outside, and a good looking professional-type man approached me and told me he’d watch my dog while I went inside. A little later, he came up to me in line to tell me he was leaving, and wanted to let me know because he said he would watch my dog. I thanked him and wished him a good day.

    Later, as I was walking home, he was in a car coming from another direction. He stopped his car, stopped traffic, leaned out the window and said, “It’s no coincidence that I’m seeing you twice today. May I take you to dinner sometime?”

    I smiled and thanked him but said no (I should have said yes, but my first reaction was that he was going to cause an accident, and so I wanted the convo to be as short as possible.)

    So – no date… but a HAPPY story! And it just proves the point that the speaker made over the weekend. Get happy first, and the things you want will fall in line.

    Side note: I can be Pollyanna too – and this is not that. This is actually FEELING happy about something/anything – and allowing the good to come to you.
    xo Siena

  25.  #25Brenda on October 11, 2010 at 12:18 pm


    That’s awesome! Thanks for sharing!

  26.  #26Jennifer on October 11, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    OOO Siena..I LOVE the secret!!
    It wasn’t mike dooley, was it!?!?
    I’ll be soooooo jealous if it was mike dooley!
    I’ve wanted to go on like EVERY adventure he’s ever hosted.

  27.  #27Meemee on October 11, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    Talking about pain, I have heard people making a distinction between real and unreal pain. Many a time I was told that a pain coming from emotional issues are not real. By “not real” what they meant is not that it is not pain at all. But that this kind of pain should be dealt at a different level- within my own head, without seeking solutions and help. I have a friend whose boyfriend always tells her “You should figure this out in your own head”. Definitely when we say it hurts we are not asking others to fix our pain. But we are asking for compassion.
    This real/unreal divide has always left me with some confusion. On the one hand it helps us to figure out our own pain,issues and deal with them with dignity. But on the other hand this divide appears as a way in which people usually justify their insensitivity.

  28.  #28Siena on October 11, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    Jennifer… it WAS MIKE DOOLEY!! hehehehe

    I have a total crush on him. And he signed my book with a HUGE heart! LOL (I’m 13 years old again!)

  29.  #29Brenda on October 11, 2010 at 12:26 pm


    Emotional pain is more real than physical pain sometimes! And, it can create physical pain! Sometimes my physical heart aches out of emotional hurt. And emotional abuse is every bit as hurtful as physical abuse. And, it should be treated as such.

  30.  #30Jennifer on October 11, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    OMG!!! Is he as cute in person as on the secret!!
    if I shared with someone that I was feeling emotional pain, and they told me to work it out in my head….well that would feel like being told to shut up.
    It’s a totally dismissive way to speak to someone.
    And emotional pain CAN be physical pain…there are all sorts of biological factors involved…but really…that’s boring. Just trust me. It can be.

  31.  #31Siena on October 11, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Jennifer, he’s adorable. Not necessarily in looks (although he’s a nice looking guy), but he’s fun and playful and winks all the time…just looks like he’s having a great time the entire time. He probably noticed that I was staring at him with stars in my eyes a-la the student in Indiana Jones. hehe

  32.  #32Renee on October 11, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    I love ur stuff u send to my email reading it is helpin me alot i was wonderin if i could pay for that book by sendin it to u in a money order cause i do not have a credit card but it looks like really good book it says it is orignally 40 dollars but it is 19.95 it is the pink one i forget the name but ur newsletters is inspiring me so much ur a good teacher to me

  33.  #33Renee on October 11, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    It is the book have the realtionship u want i want that book but want to know if their is anyway i can pay for it without a credit card

  34.  #34Meemee on October 11, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Brenda and Jennifer,
    So in a relationship, when one is being insensitive to the other person’s emotional pain, it is an act of dismissal and it is a form of abuse?

  35.  #35Jennifer on October 11, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    I feel like it’s an act of dismissal.
    But Abuse? Hmmmm…..I feel like if it’s an ongoing thing.
    Anyone can have a bad day, yes? Be so wrapped up in thier own pain they can’t hear someone else. But if it’s ongoing, that’s when I start to feel abused.

  36.  #36Brenda on October 11, 2010 at 1:00 pm


    Yes, because it is neglect. And neglect is abuse.

  37.  #37BarbinOz on October 11, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Happy Thanksgiving Day to all my Canadian friends 🙂

  38.  #38Daria on October 11, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    To me this article is about – Talking to our man, not withholding.

    And how withholding out of fear is damaging to u’s and the relationship… And constant rejection can push a man into the arms of another woman, even a man who loves u’s and really wants to continue being with us.

    And the added benefit of.. At any point, we can start to open up and heal everything.

    I hope that happens for Ann. She sounds very toxic here, in the behaviors and thought patterns .

    Of course, inside, she’s lovely and scared.

    Melt the armour.

  39.  #39Rori Raye on October 11, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    Renee – I don’t know of any way but through credit card – perhaps ebay uses paypal, but not sure…I’m not in charge of this technical part of things…but I’ll try and find out…Love, Rori

  40.  #40Kristine on October 11, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    Ladies I have read a lot of thing that I hear you all say and I can relate and then some things make me want to reach out. There is no time on love, when you love someone you work hard to make it work! I know there are some situations we cannot deal with but don’t ever give up on someone you know in your heart you love. Time heals all wounds if your love cannot last, we will always be blessed with someone that is meant to have our hearts and treasure it forever. Don’t cry, be sad or wait(not that I haven’t) but when you are in touch with who you are and what you want noone can take it from you and your happiness is in your hands not your mans’!! Love You ALL…GOOD LUCK IN LIFE & LOVE

  41.  #41Nikita on October 11, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    I bought rori’s book with a American express gift card I bought from the pharmacy-Duane Reade or CVS…..maybe walgreens

  42.  #42Elayne on October 11, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    Wow, I have to say that Daria, SS, Brenda and Siena ALL sound so grown up! Congrats ladies — I haven’t posted in awhile but I read your comments all the time and it looks like you’ve all made tremendous progress.

    Just wanted to point that out to you all!

  43.  #43diamond in the rough on October 11, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    please please advice

    i feel mistrustful of all men. i feel like they have an agenda to just have sex with me. i feel like they cant see the real me. and all they want is get inside my p*ssy. when they look at me with desire i feel iky and used. i feel unloved and unheard.

    i want to trust. i want to believe in them.. but i think that they are all biologically programmed to not stay with one woman.. i think that they are programmed to just spread their semen.

    i want to be cherished and adored. but i hate myself for making bad decisions in my life. i live with sooo many regrets and always fantasize about having the power to turn back time.

    i suffer from terrible feelings of REJECTION and not being good enough or worthy of having a good man – thats if they exist for me.

    i try to love myself.but i struggle to find anything special about me.

  44.  #44diamond in the rough on October 11, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    i feel like i am not interesting enough, beautiful or intelligent enough to deserve a brilliant man. i feel like im supposed to be unhappy.

    i feel like i should be loved because i have so much love to give.

    i feel like im feeding my ego and that feels embarrassing and bad.

    i want to know that there are good, agenda-free, respectful men out there. i want my trust restored. i want to trust, surrender and let go. but i cant see that these types of men exist..if they do, they are rare indeed.

  45.  #45Jason Miller on October 11, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    1: crystal says:

    Hi, Crystal,

    A couple of things going on:

    1. You haven’t had a first date with this guy yet.
    2. There is a lot of tension building without the two of you knowing each other well.
    3. I don’t see him taking a strong initiative to see you based on your story.
    4. Scheduling seems unnecessarily difficult.
    5. You are focused on how you rank on his priority list (baseball).

    I’m going to give you my gut reaction to this and you let me know if it feels right to you.

    I think some guys need to be given the “go-ahead” to start leading the interactions in the courtship process and to assume the masculine role. I would recommend you say to him something like,

    “I feel frustrated we’re not able to connect in person. I am open to whatever plan you might have in mind to get together.”

    And then just see where he takes it. You’ve done two things here. First you are delivering the feeling message, what I would call a genuine feminine response. And second, you are making sure he knows that you would like him to step up WITHOUT actually asking him to. This is a big green light to a guy to make the move and plan a real date. All you have to do after he states his plan, is just say what you like or don’t like about it. It’s OK to say things like “that time doesn’t work” or “I really don’t like that kind of food.” Just make sure that you do it in an honest and kind way.

    As for how he’s prioritized you in his life, you have to give him a chance to get to know you more so he can make that judgement for himself. If you have a couple of good dates with him, he might make more room for you.

    Let me know if that resonates.

  46.  #46Jason Miller on October 11, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    43: diamond in the rough says:

    “i want to know that there are good, agenda-free, respectful men out there. i want my trust restored. i want to trust, surrender and let go. but i cant see that these types of men exist..if they do, they are rare indeed.”

    We exist and there are many of us.

    The hardest part of being in your position is feeling powerless. You are in a place most of us have been in where our beliefs are based on lack and not abundance. As many will tell you, you will receive in life what you believe. Those beliefs were likely given to you, but you are responsible for changing them.

    There is only one way out of this. You must start taking steps toward self-love. Playing the victim in life sucks, but it’s not without its benefits. Primary among those benefits is the avoidance of fear. There is an ironic sense of safety in victimhood. So one step at a time, and without giving up, move toward getting the help that you feel you need.

    It will get better.

    Let me know if that resonates or not.

  47.  #47Jennifer on October 11, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    I think I’m getting another cyst on my ovary.

  48.  #48Ella on October 11, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    Siena re#24 –

    I love that! What a great story and I am going to try tha technique.

  49.  #49Lizzie on October 11, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    thanks Barb! Turkey, cranberries, pumpkin pie! When do you do a Thanksgiving in Oz? The US is at the end of November.

  50.  #50Lizzie on October 11, 2010 at 6:40 pm

    I think this post is a sad spiral into incredibly negative space. It is a creeping vampire – much like my marriage was only I didn’t do any of the stalker stuff. I so closed myself off, I no longer had ANY feelings. None. Completely devoid. A few years ago, I had realized that the whole thing began when he disappeared the first time – we had only been married a year and he was off looking for a man to play with. When I asked him why he had disappeared, he had such lame excuses – for the life of me, I have no idea why I stuffed it all down. I am getting all choaked up and tight in my chest just thinking about it and it is 20 years ago now!

  51.  #51Lizzie on October 11, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    Ugh, back to work – I don’t like this feeling of tightness…I shall let it flow through me…I will work for a little while then rest. good night all!

  52.  #52Amy F. on October 11, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    I need your advice ladies and gentlemen.

    I posted this earlier but it must have gotten lost in the shuffle of over 700 messages! Amazing!

    Barb and Everyone,

    Thanks so much for asking about the Baseball Man. I could use your advice…

    We went out on Thursday night. I had a good time. He’s drop dead handsome, very intelligent, really about the most masculine man I’ve ever dated. I realized type A men trigger me and I have always avoided them, even though I really do want a type A man. My dad was a type A man, very abusive to my mother and I was her protector so I have tended to recoil from type A men. Yet, this date made me realize how I usually run from type A’s, and I feel really good about this breakthrough.

    I was freaked out during this date – but I managed to open my heart, use feeling messages, not fill in silent moment with idle chatter. I leaned back and he literally moved his chair to be closer to me and hold my hand.
    He emailed me the next day, thanking me and asked me what I need in a relationship (after having declared he is looking for his special woman for a long term relationship). He invited me to open my heart and be vulnerable with my answer (not using these exact words). So I did. I told him I crave to be feminine, to have a man carry the ball and to “be”. He’s a really poetic man, so I felt comfortable going deeper than I normally would. I sent my response on Friday and have not yet heard from him. He’s out of town until Wednesday (I think) but I now feel badly. I feel exposed. I’ve read that email over and over and its one of the best emails I’ve ever written. Yet I feel really stupid now for sharing so much of what is in my heart because I have received no response!
    So I went from feeling hesitant about him because he came on so strongly and almost canceled our date for a baseball game, to really wanting to communicate with him.
    I have not initiated contact and I won’t. Yet, I need to work through this being obsessed feeling and I am having trouble doing it. I check my email every 5 seconds and I feel myself thinking about this all day long. How do you work through obsession like this?
    Thank you for the support!

  53.  #53crystal on October 11, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    Thanks for the advice Jason. It does resonate, but unfortunately I already sent the other message a few hours ago. Shoot!

    I guess I’ll have to keep your good advice in mind should I find myself in similar situation again.

  54.  #54Siena on October 11, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    Hi Amy! This is a process, so it’s not a quick fix. You’re doing the right thing leaning back physically by not calling him… The next step is to lean back in your vibe too. This is a really tough thing to do, but it gets easier with time. I start by creating a list of 50 things that I like, and whenever I want to obsess, I go do something on the list. Yoga helps me a lot with it too, because it’s all about clearing your mind.

    But sometimes it’s just plain-old willpower. Rori said somewhere that becoming a Siren is a full time job. She was responding to a woman who was lamenting that she called a guy after she had been drinking.

    It takes a lot of discipline at first, but it does get easier!! You’re doing great!!

  55.  #55Katarina Phang on October 11, 2010 at 7:43 pm

    Amy, that’s why dating multiple men and spreading the psychic energy helps.

    My hubby came forward again today and apologized for things that ticked me off last night.

    SG and I have been talking quite seriously about the kind of “arrangement” he’d like to have with me (he wants me to be his “part time wife” and when I said I want the forever thing too he texted, “My part time wirfe…forever ;)” ). He wants/needs me but as a divorced man, he’s somewhat wounded.

    I’m open to the kind of discussion we have. At least, I am loving it that he feels safe to come to me and think outside the box.

    I love and care about both men. I’ll end up with one or the other -or perhaps someone else- but for now I’ll have both of them. 🙂

  56.  #56Brenda on October 11, 2010 at 7:46 pm

    I want to text Ryan so bad. I will not text Ryan. I will wait for him to contact me. I hate men. I love men.

  57.  #57life_is_too_short_to... on October 11, 2010 at 7:48 pm

    Hi Amy F!
    Oh no! “Man-crack” strikes again!

    you wrote:
    I feel really stupid now for sharing what was in my heart because I have received no response.

    OK, now ask yourself if you shared what was in your heart “from” your heart. meaning no conditions were attached to the sharing. meaning you were not expecting anything specific to occur. — no expectations.

    Maybe instead of assuming the worst because of this delay in responding, perhaps just try to be in a “i don’t know” space and not attach to any assumptions.

    This is the time to force yourself to immerse yourself in one of your other passions, or focus on your P.O.P. — anything to get you to stop spinning and relying on a call from this man to be your life-blood! (This is about the time when I would call a psychic 😉

    Also tell yourself that he will be able to feel your desperation, and it will scare him.

    I would like to be in a place where I would absolutely love it and be thrilled and ecstatic to get a wonderful prompt response, but at the same time, it doesn’t matter enough to throw me off-center for very long.

    Yes, I love my feelings, but I don’t want to wallow in and be attached to any of them, because that throws up a roadblock and doesn’t allow the space for the new ones to bubble up in the moment.

    What do you think?

  58.  #58life_is_too_short_to... on October 11, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    24. What fun, Siena!

    This reminds me of when i was in a writing group where we would write and journal with great positive energy and high enthusiasm about what we wanted to be doing, having, feeling, manifesting in our lives as if it were already a fact,

    there was also a book called Excuse Me Your Life is Waiting, that put a lot of stock in energy and enthusiasm.

    In a way, it is a version of the visualization tool where you see yourself in the relationship, including all the little details, what the sheets feel like when you wake up in the morning, what you say to each other, etc….

    Thanks for sharing that!

  59.  #59Katarina Phang on October 11, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    And I’m actually not all against part-time marriage thing. I do think distance and mystery works better for romance and sexual attraction. SG and I are intoxicated with the kind of animal attraction and chemistry we have for each other and would love to prolong it as much/long as we can.

    Something like this:


    So we are on the same page re. space. I have a problem with an “open marriage” thing, though. I don’t mind swinging but doing it behind each other’s back, I’ll have a hard time accepting (especially when he’s the one who’s doing it LOL…)

  60.  #60Amy F. on October 11, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    Thank you. This is what I needed to hear. I did not even care that much until I did not get a response. I wrote the response for myself, really. Oh – the man crack! I am still addicted. I need to go to rehab again.
    This is my key issue – feeling good no matter what they do or don’t do. I’m working on it and THANKS

  61.  #61life_is_too_short_to... on October 11, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    There has been a huge breakthrough in the love of my life man with toxic qualities (no, I really don’t think he is a hopeless toxic man) and very high drama in his life flame out long distance situation.

    I truly and honestly do not care anymore what happens. That familiar “charge” where I feel like i lost something, feel compelled to find a way to grab him and throw him in the cage is no longer there.

    The alchemy is working! The pain is GONE!

    We had a long phone conversation last night where I was speaking quite a bit in feeling messages, (with a little lecturing thrown in, slap on wrist) and it was very, very productive and we truly “buried the hatchet”, and he responded with way more respect and sincerity than before.

    Without making excuses for his toxic qualities, I was able to see my part in the flame-out, not that that was the major cause.

    Because of our history and the connection that we both feel, and how we enjoy talking with each other so much, we both do not want to sever ties, but have agreed to respect each other’s boundaries,
    not put any pressure on each other in any way, and just keep the door open. He knows I am dating.
    I will always put who I am and what I want first, over any man.

    I just decided that I really don’t want to play victim anymore, and am able to just put him on my horse and ride, ride, ride, and if he falls off he falls off, but in the meantime, I don’t have to banish him from my life, especially since I am no longer invested in what happens.

    I truly believe that if something doesn’t work out with one man, no matter how enamored I might be, it means that something better for me is out there.
    and my only job is to continue to work with myself and have fun, and yes, I do work, and I do have a job,

    and a client who came in the other day turned me on to a connection for the exact volunteer position that I have been wanting to explore!!

  62.  #62life_is_too_short_to... on October 11, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    You’re so welcome, Amy F
    I love your posts!

  63.  #63Siena on October 11, 2010 at 8:41 pm

    Life, #60 – awesome post & breakthrough!! You go girl!!

  64.  #64Amy F. on October 11, 2010 at 8:46 pm


    I love what you said above:
    “I truly believe that if something doesn’t work out with one man, no matter how enamored I might be, it means that something better for me is out there
    and my only job is to continue to work with myself and have fun”

    This is so true. They just keep getting better and better. I expect a Duke or a King will walk through my door soon. I will keep you posted and will let you know when you can officially refer to me as “Her Royal Highness”!

  65.  #65life_is_too_short_to... on October 11, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    Thank you, Siena…it is as if a huge boulder has been lifted off my shoulders…..someone was talking somewhere on the blog recently about even making breakthroughs in the relationship with their father using feeling messages, (no, not Daria), and this happened for me over the weekend, too.

    Just the ability to voice how I felt all these years when he would, no doubt, subconsciously, respond when he was displeased about something I said or did, with withholding punishing kinds of threats was very freeing and i’m sure contributed to my new sense of freedom.

    Of course, my mother right away commented that it was more about how I felt about my self than what anyone could say to make me feel bad about myself, and I know that, but it just had to be voiced, once and for all.

  66.  #66Nikita on October 11, 2010 at 9:04 pm

    5: Meemee says:

    Hi all,
    I feel completely drained out after a hectic day’s work.
    I met him in the office. I didn’t look at him, I didn’t smile, I didn’t even say a hi. I got into my room everytime I saw him, put the music on and tried to read or do some other work.
    Later in the day, he came to my room with a book. He wanted to know what I felt about that book etc. Thankfully my friend was in my room with me. She answered his questions and when he asked “can you read this and write a review for me”, she took the book from him and said she will do that. She does not know anything about our relationship, but I was happy she answered him. Then he left the room. I was feeling so horrible after seeing him face to face. When I got out the room, I saw him standing next to my room, looking at me. I felt I am crumbling dowm. I all of a sudden started feeling weak and sad. I went out, went to the balcony, smoked a cigarrette, had a tea.
    A guy from my church, whom I know for several years had invited me for a coffee. I never found this guy interesting. But I said yes to him. Went out for a coffee with him. I can’t say I enjoyed his company, or I was imressed with him. But I felt so much at ease with myself when I was with this guy. We talked about lot of things- his job, a book he is writing, my job, research, our friends etc etc. I could talk to him without any reservations. I was simply being myself. I felt good about it.
    I am feeling tired. I have a bad headache. And my allergy is slightly worse today. That is making me feel irritated too.

    Monday, 11 October 2010 @ 9:10am


    Yay!!!! That was circular dating!!!! It’s intended to reveal who we are to ourselves ….and how we relate. A fresh perspective 🙂 you are doing wonderfully!!!

  67.  #67life_is_too_short_to... on October 11, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    63. Absolutely, I can see it now….your King will be looking to fulfill your every wish and desire “Queen Amy” !

  68.  #68life_is_too_short_to... on October 11, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    Lucy, where are you? Everything OK?

  69.  #69Jacqueline on October 11, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    Lizzie – I emailed you – I am deeply sympathetic that you sound so hurt and anguished. Love 2 you!

  70.  #70Jacqueline on October 11, 2010 at 9:22 pm

    and yall, this is a great discussion – Life, as always you’re eloquent!!!

    I’m going to go with this here because it’s the only thread short enough to post on – we were talking about masculine and feminine earlier today and the subject of “debating” men came up on another post for me….

    so I got this email from Dr. Paul about “testing men.” but not in the usual way you “love test” them – in a boundaries, masculine way where you don’t disempower them, but also ….I don’t know it’s interesting and he says it better – what do you all think?

    I call it a Man-versus-Woman test, out of the four major categories of the tests for men.

    So on three occasions this weekend, I’d like you to DISAGREE with a man in a way that both tests him, but preserves his interest in you.

    The reason for needing to test him by disagreeing with him is that it firmly places and tests for PERSONAL BOUNDARIES.

    Without boundaries, we are incapable of truly committing within relationships. So you need to know a guy has these (and that you do too.) One of the best ways to do this is to discover whether you can “agree to disagree” yet still like each other.

    In fact, this skill is the single most important one to guarantee a lifetime of effective communication with your mate.

    HOWEVER, this skill and practice at it as a test of men is also easily mishandled in a way that not only turns off the men who don’t pass, but also quality men who would be great in your life, even when they DO pass.

    It’s like they’ll say sure, “I respect that you disagree with me,” diplomatically, but then finish the sentence with, “but for some reason I have now lost all attraction for you. See you later.”

    Why does this happen?

    Because men in their masculinity, just like you in your femininity, need to feel an ELEVATION in their level of it by virtue of knowing you.

    This is NOT “fragile egos,” or “weakness.” It’s a chance to either stoke the fires of passion, or extinguish them with the fire extinguisher of male shame feelings.

    Here’s how it’s done: the test itself gives the man a chance to rise to the occasion, and WIN, while ALSO giving you a chance to screen out the wrong ones.

    So if you word your disagreement in a way in which you just say he’s wrong, and he loses his cool, is overly hurt, jockeys for top position again, or leaves in a huff, then yes, you have screened out a guy who couldn’t have eventually committed.

    However, if a quality man does respect you for disagreement with him, but his male instinct that needs to feel of rank and status among other men is diminished or squelched by the WAY the disagreement is communicated, he’ll simply find it unattractive.

    Then you can be friends who respect each other, but you’re not so likely to become or remain romantic partners.

    Just know this:

    Masculinity is tied to how skilled a man feels at attracting women, and how much progress he senses in his career.

    So when you disagree with him, you’ll screen OUT the guys who aren’t ready for a commitment, but if you follow up with the phrases below, you’ll then KEEP the quality men who ARE able to commit to you:

    “I disagree with you, but I think I’ll stick around anyway. After all, you’re pretty attractive.” (or some variant.)

    “I disagree with you, but I don’t suppose you’d have gotten along so far in such an interesting career without being able to tolerate disagreement, right?”


    Very cool idea, huh?

    and hoorah to everyone for moving forward – shoutout especially to Mee Mee!!


  71.  #71Amy F. on October 11, 2010 at 9:51 pm


    Thanks so much. I am creating my list of 50 things I love to do and will just go down the list until the obsessive feeling goes away.

    High on my list is tea and scones, so tomorrow I’m off!
    Thanks, again and cheerio!

  72.  #72Kacy on October 11, 2010 at 10:16 pm

    Hi Rori, I’m dating a new man in my life after coming out of a very tumultuous relationship of almost 2 years with a man who was and is toxic and extremely commitment phobic. I broke off the relationship several months ago and have continued working on myself and have not dated anyone in the meantime. I feel that I’m very much emotionally over the past relationship and feelings for him and wouldn’t even considser going back to that man if he begged me. That relationship was very hurtful and looking back I realize VERY disrespectful of me. I realize that I allowed the relationship to go on due to a deep lack of self esteem for myself, due in part, to an extremely abusive childhood. I engaged in several years of therapy to heal myself from much of the damage caused from my childhood.I have been reading and purchasing several of your programs and trying to implement the tools that you teach. Many of them I do well with. Such as leaning back and not rowing the boat. I struggle a great deal with allowing my true feelings to show or even recognizing what they are at times, and expressing them in feeling messages. I struggle deeply with when to bring up feelings that I have and express them to a man or leave them alone and let them lie.
    In this past relationship I over analyzed everything the man said and did because I didn’t understand what was going on with his commitment phobia. I wore myself out analyzing why he said this or didn’t say that or why he did this or didn’t do that. (The only thing I feel glad about is that it was my insistance on figuring out what was up with him that finally allowed me to understand what the true situation was that I was dealing with in the relationship, it was what led me to your programs and others online that helped me sort through and realize how toxic and destructive the relationship was. I’m glad now that I was to tenacious)
    I feel that I need to understand where things are coming from and why people are doing whatever they are doing until I understand what I’m dealing with. This seems to only happen with men, and of course it was extremely profound with this past relationship because I was dealing with someone who is toxic and commitment phobic. That relationship hurt me very deeply and has triggered my trust issues all over again. I don’t want to carry this need that I feel to analyze a man’s actions and thoughts into this new relationship. I am finding myself doing it again however in small ways and I realize that it stems from me feeling vulnerable and scared that I will experience the same thing I did in the past relationship with the commitment phobic man. I feel untrusting and scared that he will decide he doesn’t want to be with me, so I’m questioning and analyzing why he says or does certain things that make me feel insecure. I don’t want to do this Rori. I want to shut it off and just enjoy the relationship and the fact that he obviously at this point does want to get to know me better and spend time with me. What is the best way for me to conquer this almost uncontrolable need to analyze and feel insecure about why he doesn’t call more often, or why he’s taking things very slowly in this new relationship, or is he intimidated by me and that’s why it seems that he hesitates over certain things with us. Etc. Etc. Etc. I don’t want to sabotage or ruin this relationship by doing this and bringing the issues from the past relationship into this new one. Can you share some specific tools with me that will allow me to stop this and to not obsess over this. I am working very hard to fill my life with many activities and interests. I am even circular dating myself and there is another man that is interested in me that I am cultivating into someone that I could spend some time with in order to keep myself level headed. Any other suggestions? When I find myself starting to analyze in my head and question everything what can I say or do that will chase it away. I sometimes share my analyzing and thoughts with a couple of friends which embarrasses me, because I know they see that I’m obsessing. Please Help!

  73.  #73Kacy on October 11, 2010 at 10:34 pm

    P.S. The other night I spent the evening at friends with this new man having a nice dinner. When we parted and he walked me to my car, he gave me a hug and a sweet kiss. This is the 3rd or 4th time he’s kissed me gently and the 5th time we’ve seen each other. When he kissed me, I kissed him back and accidently said “Luv You!” I meant it in the way that I luv him like I do other people that I feel close to. I didn’t try to explain. I’m just concerned that he may have taken it more seriously and feels like I’m jumping the gun and expressing that “I LOVE him” after only seeing him a few times. We haven’t even been on a date with just the two of us. We’ve been with a group from his yacht club at several get togethers and wine tastings etc. Should I say something in explanation to him about my comment or let it go and hope that when I don’t say it again he’ll realize that I didn’t mean it in the serious way it may have sounded?

  74.  #74Daria on October 11, 2010 at 10:36 pm

    oh yeah well yes i dont work and yes i dont have a job. take that


    limiting belief flying out like a commet!!

    thank you and you’re lovely!

  75.  #75melody on October 11, 2010 at 10:52 pm

    “It’s all about fear, and habit, and upbringing, and letting your subconscious, traumatic patterns take you over and run you and steal your life from you.”

    ….wow rori…

  76.  #76Brenda on October 11, 2010 at 10:58 pm

    It’s raining, thundering, and ligthtning out. I wish it was normal for people to be off work everytime it rained. Smirk!

  77.  #77melody on October 12, 2010 at 12:04 am

    Hi Kacy,
    Hope you’re feeling better.

    I know you addressed Rori, but I had a strong internal reaction when I read your comment.
    I haven’t figured out why yet, but feel like commenting

    It sounds like this man really likes you!!
    I wouldn’t actually worry too much about saying “luv you”. I mean, if you were just having a sweet goodnight kiss and hug that certainly isn’t the scenario when most people, man or woman, would choose to, for the very first time, declare their passionate love for another person!
    If he didn’t look surprised, baffled or embarrassed when you said it, I’d bet he took it exactly the way you meant it…

    Hope you can enjoy him and not worry … he sounds great! I’m still waiting for mine, but I know he’s on his way to me.

    Also, did you see the comment, from Siena, about making the list of her 50 favorite things and when she starts obsessing, she just picks out something on the list and starts doing it?
    To change up her vibe? Such a great idea!

    Now I’m thinking I had such a strong reaction to your comment because it sounds like something I would obsess about…instead of just enjoying a wonderful time with a wonderful man!

    Oh well, baby stepping my way to progress… 🙂

    Luv ya!

  78.  #78ReneeR on October 12, 2010 at 6:10 am

    Just FYI ladies — the other “Renee” who posted on here about buying Rori’s book is another Renee…if we both keep posting, I’ll change my name to “ReneeR” so you all can keep us straight 🙂

  79.  #79tinque on October 12, 2010 at 6:43 am

    “How do you work through obsession like this?”

    AmyF – Siena pretty much covered this, yet I wanted to add that for me making lists doesn’t work. I don’t have the patience for lists. When I obsessed in the past, sometimes I just couldn’t get a hold of myself and would make myself crazy. It passed when it passed, usually after a really bad night’s sleep.
    What helped me is talking/writing to someone with whom I was close and who was helping me with my troubles at the time. She helped me gain perspective. This forum is a great place for this.
    And if she wasn’t available, I took this as a sign that yes I can do this by myself. I would take myself in hand so to speak and just STOP those voices. Then I would go do something else to better occupy my mind. Anything that needed focus, so I couldn’t “think” so readily.
    This didn’t always work, but the more practice….

  80.  #80Ella on October 12, 2010 at 6:47 am

    Amy re#51

    I can so relate to that… and isn’t it annoying when you are not even that sure at first, then you open up… and then they pull back and you are left feeling vulnerable.

    I had this with a guy a few weeks ago.

    The single thing that has helped me the most with gradually moving my mind onto healthier things is to focus on my onw happiness. Really pay attention to what makes me feel good in my day to day life and focus on doing that. Also just to pay attention to my feelings generally and ask what they are trying to tell me.

    The guy is merely that catalist!

    It is natural I think to feel vulnerable as we start experimenting with being open to men… For me I think I will just be aware to share and open my heart only appropriately to the level I know the man.. so how many times I have seen him, how close we are and what he is giving me.

    I will always remain open and say how I really feel, however I will not bear my heart to everyone and anyone. My heart is precious so men will earn to see more of it the more I trust them. So I guess that is more to do with the level of intimacy.

    I think that as we become stronger as Siren’s we feel less vulnerable when we share what’s in our heart as we are not defined by what a man thinks.

    Anyway I am waffling now, however interesting topic and definitely one I am working through too!

  81.  #81Simply Shannon on October 12, 2010 at 7:01 am

    Posting this really quick so I don’t forget…

    From Allana Pratt this morning…

    No more mind masturbation!!!
    (just the real thing, baby!)

    I love this!

    For me: no more talking, thinking, processing this or that. Only real. What’s happening in front of me real. Experiencing real. No more using my mind to toss around things that aren’t even happening. No more sitting around wishing or praying something into existence. Create a plan and execute the plan. Take the next step and then the next and the next.

  82.  #82life_is_too_short_to... on October 12, 2010 at 7:02 am

    73. Daria, i hear ya! for me, working and having a job is a way of knowing that I can take care of some of my needs without having to fully depend on someone else. It is good for my personal self-esteem to know that i can do that. I am the type of person who does not want to be lingering in a nursing home in a wheel chair on life support with people having to take care of me. It will be call dr. kevorkian, please! but, like I said before here, i would be more than happy to find a man who is cool with supplying all the monetary and fully realizes and appreciates my contributions to the relationship and to society in other ways, and a mature partnership built on that. No power imbalance based on that. If that were more the case in society, then the person who “stays home with the kids” and runs the household would get quite a bit more respect and be appreciated for their worth. It all depends what a society puts the most importance on. For instance, it seems that football stars and actors/actresses, etc have more importance than teachers and nurses. Supply and demand!!
    love you and have a beautiful day

  83.  #83life_is_too_short_to... on October 12, 2010 at 7:02 am

    Thanks, Jacqueline for your nice comment.

    I appreciate your enthusiasm and energy here!

  84.  #84Ella on October 12, 2010 at 7:07 am

    Life re #56 – I love that post and there is a line in there that scares the heck out of me…

    “Also tell yourself that he will be able to feel your desperation, and it will scare him”.

    When I am in that obsessing space I often have that exact thought… and it panics me even more… I am like ‘Oh Feck! He can feel me being obsessive, I am pushing him away, he can feel me being desperate, Ick, stop it, stop it…’

    and then of course I cannot stop it, as the mind will only go towards things. It is like me saying to myself ‘don’t think of a pink elephant!’ lol.

    So the only things I can do is to picture me riding on, on my horse… focus on my happiness and find things to do to help myself to relax.

    Amy, it does gradually work… over the last few weeks I am practicing and it is becoming more natural to to get obsessive over a man…

  85.  #85Ella on October 12, 2010 at 7:08 am

    PS Life – I LOVE the stuff about always asking ourselves are we sharing for the sake of sharing or because we want an outcome.

    Only sharing for sharing’s sake feels good no matter what the outcome. If we feel comfortable to share.

  86.  #86Ella on October 12, 2010 at 7:13 am

    Ah – I get what ‘man crack’ is now, lol… My name is Ella and I am a (recovering) man crack addict! Loool….

  87.  #87Ella on October 12, 2010 at 7:16 am

    Life re# 60

    I feel so good for you.

    I want to be there too… getting there!

    Feeling good 🙂

  88.  #88Ella on October 12, 2010 at 7:21 am


    The stuff on disagreeing with men is interesting to me. Especially how it COULD undermine their masculinity and therefore attraction of handled incorrectly… definitely food for thought!


  89.  #89Ella on October 12, 2010 at 7:22 am

    Amy, re tea and scones…

    Lol, that is very English. Are you in England? (I am).

  90.  #90Brenda on October 12, 2010 at 7:24 am


    That is powerful but difficult, at least for me! I feel good when I am living in the moment. When I talked with my new man, Gentle Man, on the phone Saturday, I just let myself feel in the moment, and I spoke my feelings moment by moment as we talked. I felt like I was out of my usual cage. He is so kind, and he has made a big impact on me. But he said he works mostly nights and weekends and may not be around enough to have a decent relationship for me.

  91.  #91Ella on October 12, 2010 at 7:24 am

    Kacy re #71

    Read the posts above – there is some stuff around handling obsession.

    Good Luck.

  92.  #92Brenda on October 12, 2010 at 7:25 am


    What term is most commonly used: England or UK? I have heard English people use both, and I never know what to call your country!

    Did you ever see the movie, “What a Girl Wants”, with Amanda Bynes? It is a very sweet chick flick that takes place mostly in England.

  93.  #93Ella on October 12, 2010 at 7:27 am

    Brenda – I love thunder and lightening!

    SS – re #79 – that is GREAT! thanks for sharing that.

    Oww, I am feeling good today. Feeling so happy and positive.

    I must get off here soon though and go do some more work!

  94.  #94Ella on October 12, 2010 at 7:30 am

    Hey Brenda,

    The most PC term is the UK, which includes Scotland, Ireland and Wales…

    The reason I said English was because tea and scones are a tradition that originated in England, rather than anywhere else in the UK.

    I have not seen that film… will look out for it though. 🙂

  95.  #95Brenda on October 12, 2010 at 7:44 am


    Thanks! Yes, that makes sense! I just love both English and Australian accents! I have a friend here from the Berkshire area in England. She’s lived here since the 60s, but she visits every year or so. Her accent has softened, but it’s still there. What’s coincedental is she lives in the Berkshire area here in Pennsylvania, too! 🙂

  96.  #96Victoria on October 12, 2010 at 7:47 am

    I have been seeing Him for a year and a half. We were exclusive from very early into the relationship. I know I haven’t done everything the way you have laid out but I have expressed myself whenever necessary and remain independent.
    He talked briefly of marriage around 4-6 months into our relationship and even asked me if I preferred round or square settings on a ring and asked what size was my finger. Shortly after this it became apparent that there were complications with his divorce being settled and he stopped talking about it completely.
    It hasn’t been perfect but it has been a nice relationship. He works 60 plus hours a week when he isn’t with his kids he takes every other moment to be with me. We don’t have many “sleepovers” partially because of children, partially because he’s a little old fashioned (almost 50 years old). I don’t get flowers but he helps a lot around my house fixing things and participating in “chores”. Recently he started coming over to do his work at my kitchen table and drink tea together or cuddle on the couch with his computer on his lap.
    His divorce is now just around the corner. A month ago he told me he might be transferred to a city 3 hours away and asked if I would come with him if he moved. I told him that that would be a big commitment and a lot to think about but that I would think about it. I also said that I would have to be married before I packed myself and my kid up and quit my job.
    Yesterday on a lovely walk through the forest together we were talking and enjoying each other’s company he threw into the conversation,” why do men have to buy the engagement rings?” I replied “that that’s just the way it is- it’s called tradition.” I didn’t know what else to say and neither did he so we just skipped to other conversations.
    What is your opinion on – “why do men have to buy the engagement rings?” and if you have any other words of wisdom I would love to hear them.

  97.  #97Rori Raye on October 12, 2010 at 8:56 am

    Victoria – Welcome – and – tradition is the answer I would have given. A great many couples shop for wedding rings together, though, (I did with my husband) – and don’t even HAVE an engagement ring (I didn’t) – so – tradition is in your hands. The proposal, though – has got to be his…Love, Rori

  98.  #98Senior Lady Vibe on October 12, 2010 at 9:45 am

    92: Brenda & 94: Ella

    Here’s another film you might like:

    “An Education.” — A coming-of-age story about a teenage girl in 1960s suburban London and how her life changes with the arrival of a playboy nearly twice her age.

    “An Education” trailer video

    Nominated for three Academy Awards (USA), winner of 18 other film awards


  99.  #99Brenda on October 12, 2010 at 9:55 am


    RE: #97 – You said, “The proposal, though – has got to be his…Love, Rori”

    I am dying with curiousity to know why you suggested that Denise propose to her man about a week ago!!!!!

  100.  #100Brenda on October 12, 2010 at 9:58 am

    Senior Lady Vibe,

    Thank you! I saw that! It was sad. I wanted to believe the best. 🙁 But yes, it was a good film!

  101.  #101jacqueline on October 12, 2010 at 11:10 am

    Hello everyone! Good day! I like the idea of “love” tests and I love that the post above addresses ego needs of guys. And I think it relates to half truths, etc. Do you think we tell other people or ourselves half truths more often? Do you all test a guy – I do. But mostly about like if he’s a good tipper – because even if he’s not well off I can’t stand stinginess. That’s interesting – as is the conversation about the ONE.

    If you believe that there is only one and that you are destined to be with them here and hereafter – well I always wondered about if you were married twice and loved them both, who would you end up with in eternity? Or if you’re breaking up and your heart is breaking because LOVE doesn’t make life work out – how would that work? The belief that there is perfect love or ONE perfect match for us is a hard one for me. One I could use to really beat myself up over, or to make myself depressed til the end of my days!

    Or if you’re alone and divorced that means that you totally are going to have to be old before you make the right connection and only get a few years with them? Thus, limiting all the JOY in your life to those few years? Ick!

    I believe that there is a basic level of compatability that must be met, and a huge need for honesty with ourselves and with our partners. And then, if we have those two things we can tweak it kind of like at the end of the love test thing and a LOT of people can be “it” for us. The one – it’s an honorific, and it’s not about a number, to me.

    So, when we’re obsessing etc. I really like the idea that there are many many and we’ve just got to get out there and find another “ONE.”

    Wishing everyone HOPE for all things today!
    Limiting beliefs flying away like comets – pretty tails but GONE!!!


  102.  #102tinque on October 12, 2010 at 11:15 am

    No I don’t believe there is only one “the one” for us in our lifetime though there can be if you are one of the fortunate few who find the perfect for you match early, and this person grows and changes with you.
    There are many who find many perfect for them matches as their needs change, and they end up outgrowing the one they’re with.
    And yes some only find a perfect for them love match late in life, but isn’t it better to have found love than never to have loved at all?

  103.  #103Kacy on October 12, 2010 at 11:18 am

    Hi Melody, I so appreciate your response to my post. It hasn’t been often that I get responses, which makes me feel sad and alone and w/o support. I believe that I have a hard time differentiating between what may just be MY “issues” and real red flags that I may be picking up from a man. I always question “Well, do I just feel ignored, insecure, intimidating etc. because it truly is a red flag or are these feelings being felt by me because of my own insecurities. If they are just my insecurities and not based on any real concerns won’t I be exposing them and making myself look like a very insecure lady if I bring them up and express them in feeling messages?

    I appreciate your comment about the accidental “luv you!”. I feel that it is right also to just ignore it and not be “heavy” about it. As long as I don’t repeat it until such time that (hopefully) I can say it in earnest.
    This man is a Libra, and it seems that Libra men like to cultivate romantic relationships as friends first. This is fine with me especially at this time in my life. He is taking things pretty slowly however and as I stated we’ve only done things with other people. I’m questioning if he is just very insecure or even a little intimidated by me. I’m trying to figure out if I’m seeing red flags or just dealing with my own insecurities. How does one sort through that?

  104.  #104Kacy on October 12, 2010 at 11:23 am

    Rori, If you are able please see, read and comment on post # 72 and 73. Don’t want it to get lost in the shuffle. 🙂 Really feeling the need to get your input. Thanks

  105.  #105tinque on October 12, 2010 at 11:30 am

    Kacy _ I’m sorry you feel neglected here. First of all when in doubt, always assume it’s YOUR stuff. It will eventually come clear whether it’s red flag time or not. If you can keep the focus on you whether it be feeling good or sorting through your issues, things will fall into place, one way or another. Again always assume it’s you first, you projecting.
    Now if sleeps with someone else or is blatantly rude as in calling you a dumb b*tch or some such, then obviously this isn’t about you. Even if you were, nothing justifies rudeness.
    As for appearing insecure. DO NOT worry about this, especially with a Libra man. Any man will appreciate the honesty and the vulnerability. Come right out with it. “I’m feeling a little insecure. I feel silly telling you this, scared a bit even, but I feel…”
    I’m with a Libra man, and he took things more slowly though we did sleep together on the third date (apparently the sex date). And what I mean by this is he was the perfect gentleman always, and he took our relationship day by day to see where I was, where he was, where we were. He opened himself slowly as I opened myself to him.
    I hope this helps.

  106.  #106tinque on October 12, 2010 at 11:34 am

    Kacy – You have to stop analyzing. It will not serve you well. You have to get out of his head, for you can never be in there anyway. You have to get out of your own head.
    You do this by dropping into your body. You do this by tuning into your feelings. This won’t happen overnight. It’s a process. Try any and all tools Rori offers, and see which ones work better for you to do this.
    Expressing your feelings once you identify them too is a process. You can learn a lot about this here. It’s often discussed.

  107.  #107jacqueline on October 12, 2010 at 11:40 am

    Hi, Kacy – I didn’t write because I thought you’d get a lot of advice. We’ve all been in the obsessing thing – I was so bad about it!!! And it didn’t get me anywhere. As to what to say about what you said – there’s a LOT of differing opions on here. I go with Tinque – always say trust your gut. And I’m in a big rush, but just wanted to give you a shout out. Keep posting you’ll get more involved and for me – the best thing I did was read ALL of Rori’s back posts. Like a book – helped tremendously. If I were you I’d start with the ones on scripting – they help you know what to say in advance, etc! Good luck, darlin.

    And Tinque – the better to have loved was very cool – you know I so want to figure out how women can always be looking forward to something great as they age. That fits in there! You know, I feel like there are enough men and enough love out there that there should never be a time any of us don’t feel loved! I know it happens – and I was the worst at wanting love from a particular person, but I also say don’t do what I did – and encourage love from everywhere. I think Rori talks about this too – kind of like be the cat?

    Everyone have a great day – thanks!

  108.  #108Mercedes on October 12, 2010 at 11:40 am

    I’m with Tinque on the thought that there can be more than one “the one” for each of us…but as we meet people, we choose the eventual one who is right for us and it goes both ways.

    I do also believe that love must go both ways or it isn’t true love. In other words, I think it is impossible to love someone who doesn’t love us back (and for this, I’m talking about being IN LOVE). We can crush…we can care for someone…we can be addicted to someone…we can miss them…we can wish. But we are not truly in love (real, true love) unless it goes both ways. When we do have that two way love, they are our “one”.

    I believe there are potentially several people in the world who could be our “the one” and when we meet one of them, the others will meet others right for them, etc…I don’t believe we have one person in the entire world to find and that unless we find that one person, we’re never going to love. I just believe that when we find the right one for us, those others will find the right ones for them…and that person will no longer be us.

    I don’t know how to explain it, but I’ve had men “love” me in the past. When things didn’t work out, I believe I wasn’t (and still am not) their “one”. Nothing in me believes I was “the one” for a man and because I don’t want to be with him anymore, he’ll never find another.

    We certainly can find new people right for us as we grow and change…or we can find someone who is right for us and who will grow and change with us. For me, that is the perfect partner. My ex-husband and I “loved” each other. We did not belong together though and fell out of being IN love. We were not “the one” for each other…but we were certainly that “one” for the time we were together.

    Now, I believe I have found the man I belong with and will spend eternity with. My ex will spend eternity with the woman he was meant to be with. The other men and women in this world who were potentially our “the one”…they’ll be with the person who becomes their “the one” as well.

    I’m grateful every single day for having found the man who I belong with. I believe had I found him earlier in life, we wouldn’t have lasted. We both needed to become the man and woman we are today in order to be right for each other. I’m grateful to my experiences and my exes for helping shape who I am today so that I can be “the one” for J. I’ll always be grateful for that.

    And because J and I belong together and because we have each chosen “the one” we are to spend eternity with, I believe nothing either of us does will keep us apart. We belong together. That love will keep us from doing anything to mess this up…even though…yes…it took us a while to get here. We belong together and we will not part…That I believe with all my heart.

    Much Love,

  109.  #109tinque on October 12, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Yes Miss M. Thank you for expanding on this. I could have been more explicit. I assumed that everyone would understand this implicitly. I ought not assume anything.
    But I propose that a one sided “love” maybe isn’t love at all but a fantasy, an imaginary relationship.

  110.  #110life_is_too_short_to... on October 12, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    I was recently listening to Marianne Williamson talking about relationship. Some things I really liked that she said:

    Nature has it covered. Think about the embryo and fetus being locked away in a place where we can’t get our grubby hands on it…like, hey let’s hurry up the spleen or the eyes !!

    Also, we the feminine are like a magnet. The more “stuff” we pile on top of it (like thinking, analyzing, strategizing, how to make THIS happen) the less the pull of attraction the magnet will have.

    It’s all so counter-intuitive.

    The Universe just wants you to BE…in that place of self-love, self-acceptance, compassion, forgiveness, empathy, because it has it all covered
    already. Chill out, whatcha yelling for? Lay back, it’s all been done before.

  111.  #111Mercedes on October 12, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    LOL! Tinque: I think the absolute WORLD of you!! I used to assume those things too…until I found through experience that people will put words in my mouth.

    When love isn’t two way, I always put it in “quotes” because like you…I see it as a fantasy. If we “love” someone who doesn’t love us back, that person is not the one for us. There’s no way I believe anyone is destined to love alone. There’s no way I believe I could be “the one” for someone but that person wasn’t “the one” for me and now he’s going to have to be alone. I believe we all deserve two way love and I believe we will all find that love…even though it may take time.

    Thanks so much for being YOU. I love the softness of your voice (most of the time…I did read the comment where you called a guy a “dick”….loved that bluntness too…lol)

    Much Love,

  112.  #112tinque on October 12, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Oh you’ve heard me swear like a sailor, Miss M, and in person even. I do have to maintain some sort of decorum, don’t I?
    Or do I only reserve my potty mouth for my dearest friends? lol

  113.  #113Kacy on October 12, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Thank you so much Tinque and Jacquline for your thoughts. I think the idea of having a list of things I love to do is great. When I’m home or someplace where I can do something I love this works great! When I obsess the most is when I’m driving, usually from job to job. Lots of time to think! Too much time to think….and obsess and analyze.

    Tinque, I like the thought that I should assume they are my issues until he proves they are his. Thanks for sharing your experience with your Libra man, I believe that that has alot to do with his seeming hesitancy. He did have a very hurtful divorce 12 years ago when his wife cheated on him with a friend and none of his friends told him. I’m hoping he isn’t still attached to that hurt and isn’t still holding onto feelings or resentments for his ex wife after all of these years. Sometimes I feel that he believes that I’m too attractive for him or that pretty or attractive women will hurt him…Ooops, there I go again….Shit!!! That’s a technical term, by the way!

  114.  #114Simply Shannon on October 12, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Kacy, audio books for the car or better yet, get a Rori CD to play. When someone else speaks, it’s hard for my mind to wander. 🙂

  115.  #115tinque on October 12, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Kacy – Men tend not to hold onto things like we do for the most part. My K was “cheated” on twice before me thus the being more guarded and careful before giving his heart away, but he never closed off to the possibility. He stayed open throughout.
    (I place cheated in quotes because his definition of cheating is far stricter than sleeping with another.)
    One thing you can try since you tend to obsess while driving is to pop a Rori DVD in, and listen to this instead of the voices in your head.

  116.  #116Kacy on October 12, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Great idea about Rori’s CD’s. I know I will likely be struck by lightening for this question, but is there a forum for trading any of Rori’s CD programs? I have purchased 3 of her programs and would like to get “Targeting Mr. Right” but they can be so spendy! P.S. Rori, dont read this post! Ha Ha!!

  117.  #117Ella on October 12, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    SLV re #98 – I have seen it – it rocks! 🙂

  118.  #118Ella on October 12, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    Don’t you think the basic message in the film is don’t give it all up for a man, no matter how wonderful he seems!

    If she had known about CD-ing she could have avoided a lot of heartache, lol.

  119.  #119BarbinOz on October 12, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    #118 Ella

    Was just watching that storyline on ITV Player last week on Coronation Street, when Nick Tilsley dumped Natasha, oh and when she stood there crying and begging him “Please Nick don’t leave me, you are all I have ever wanted, all I have done is because I love you soooo much Nick, please”, she almost got down on her knees, man I got sooo angry LOL!! “Natasha turn your back on him and get CD’ing”

    (Sorry ladies for the Englishness of this :))

  120.  #120Senior Lady Vibe on October 12, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    100: Brenda says:
    “Thank you! I saw that! It was sad. I wanted to believe the best. But yes, it was a good film!”

    I saw a sweetness there, bittersweet chocoloate rather than cotton candy. There was a joy and triumph of the spirit as the girl becomes a woman, learns from her experience, becomes more rounded and purposeful. She finds a grown-up love of self.


  121.  #121Brenda on October 12, 2010 at 2:48 pm


    RE: #101 – You asked some good questions! The Bible says there is no marriage in heaven. Not sure how that would play out tho.

    I know a couple who met in their 60s, and now they are in their 90s! They have had a beautiful 30 some years together!!! And they have been such a compatible couple! They are friends of my Mom.

    I believe you could have more than one soul mate. See Derek Prince dot com or his book, “God is a Matchmaker”. He married two women that God led him to, and it was really cool the story around his two marriages. There is an audio about it on his website.

  122.  #122Brenda on October 12, 2010 at 2:49 pm


    RE: #120 – Yes, that’s what I saw, too! Have you seen Enchanted April? Really beautiful and gentle. My all-time favorite movie is “Ever After”, with Drew Barrymore, a remake of the Cinderella story.

  123.  #123Brenda on October 12, 2010 at 2:57 pm


    RE: #116 – Will you please email me? I’m at mistywindfall@earthlink.net.

  124.  #124Brenda on October 12, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    Tinque and Mercedes,

    I really enjoyed your comments about finding true love, etc! I feel really encouraged, and my hope is renewed!

  125.  #125Senior Lady Vibe on October 12, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    118: Ella says:
    “Don’t you think the basic message in the film is don’t give it all up for a man, no matter how wonderful he seems!
    If she had known about CD-ing she could have avoided a lot of heartache, lol.”

    Yes, there were some wise women in there too–the teacher, the Emma Thompson head mistress character. Even back in the 1960’s they were all about finding your own “happily every after” (…make sure you stay on your horse no matter what…?!)

    But there were certainly some yummy romantic moments, heady stuff for a teenager.


  126.  #126life_is_too_short_to... on October 12, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    .84 Ella

    you wrote:

    “When I am in that obsessing space I often have that exact thought… and it panics me even more… I am like ‘Oh Feck! He can feel me being obsessive, I am pushing him away, he can feel me being desperate, Ick, stop it, stop it…’

    and then of course I cannot stop it, as the mind will only go towards things. It is like me saying to myself ‘don’t think of a pink elephant!’ lol.

    So the only things I can do is to picture me riding on, on my horse… focus on my happiness and find things to do to help myself to relax.”

    Oh, that is too funny, Ella, “don’t think of a pink elephant” … yes, i know what you mean

    but that thought of a man being able to smell the neediness, the desperation, the obsession, just really makes me stop and shake myself, because I would not want that in my man, either.

    it feels creepy and stalker-ish

    from course in miracles, may we all choose to act from love rather than fear

    even and especially when someone’s darkness surfaces and triggers our darkness

    both our own darkness as well as our light will trigger the darkness in another

    thank you for your kind wishes and comments, Ella!

    I love your posts!

  127.  #127Orna Walters on October 12, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    There are a lot of great tools here from Rori on how to overcome obsessing, and Tinque has also added some great advice. I’ll put in my two cents here with something that I did myself:

    I would literally HUG myself and say out loud:
    I love and approve and accept myself! – several times.

    I would do this often. My life changed, and it took time and dedication. The dedication was to myself.

    I also agree with Tinque that there is not only ONE person for us. I believe that timing has a lot to do with who we end up with.

    Ultimately, our relationship with ourselves is the KEY! When we shift that, we shift everything. The outside world and our relationships are all a mirror of what is going on inside of us. That mirror does not give us a direct reflection, it is a distorted image – like a Fun-House Mirror.

    If we want our relationships to be different – that change begins with us, most specifically withIN us.

    Love and Abundance,

  128.  #128Senior Lady Vibe on October 12, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    @122: Brenda

    Thanks, I’ll check out DVDs of “Enchanted April” and “Ever After.” Logging onto my local public libary to put them “on hold…” 😀

    I think tonight I’m going to watch “Fried Green Tomatoes” yet another time!!! I could use a little “girl power” — Towanda! 😆


  129.  #129Kacy on October 12, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    So here’s another Libra man question. When I read about Libra men it seems that it is pretty consistant info. that Libra men actually like the woman they are interested in to be seductive of them. To take the lead in regards to romance in the relationship. How does that fit in with R. R.’s opposite viewpoint of letting the man row the boat and take the lead in the relationship? It appears that they have a hard time making up their minds whether they want to progress in a romantic relationship w/o alot of time and mulling it over. Do we as R.R. followers stick to our guns with a Libra male by making them row the boat and insist by our actions (or lack of actions) that they take the lead even if it takes them months to do so?

  130.  #130tinque on October 12, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    Not my Libra man Kacy. He has always taken the oars and continues to. We’ve been together long enough that I can initiate sex, but I find if I do it too much, he doesn’t seem to like it much. It’s subtle, but I know when he’s feeling that tiny bit emasculated.
    I also mostly let him lead during (I prefer it anyway) for the same reasons.

  131.  #131life_is_too_short_to... on October 12, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    Hi SLV, I loved Enchanted April and want to see it again, those were true women of substance….and I don’t think I saw Ever After, but I want to. I also want to see Somewhere in Time. I’m going to check and see if the library has them too.

  132.  #132Rachel on October 12, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    Ella #80 and #85 … brilliant! This just hit a spot today as I opened up big time Sunday night with a guy and have realized that I was a mixture of sharing for the joy of sharing and being open … and wanting a specific outcome. Wow! So thanks to your words, I’m journaling and finding peace and joy in the fact that I was able to give my beautiful self so powerfully. And then releasing the pain of not receiving the feedback and response that I’d hoped for. Thank you – your words are wise and healing

  133.  #133Ella on October 12, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    Rachel – I feel really pleased that my words were useful and brought out good things for you! 🙂

  134.  #134Ella on October 12, 2010 at 3:34 pm


    I do not watch Corrie – but caught a bit of Holby Ciy earlier, and it was basically he same story line with Patsy Kensit’s character begging a guy to stay with her, and saying if he left she would fall apart and ‘there would be no way back’ for her!

    I felt like screaming NO! Don’ do that! Ick… wanted to jump into the TV and give her a shake, then a hug and point her to Rori, lol!

  135.  #135Katarina Phang on October 12, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    So I was intrigued by SS and Mercedes’s debate re. different ways of seeing/navigating relationship(s). If I may, I want to present one that is working just so well for me right now, unconventional it may sound.

    So here is me in the Polyandrist Anonymous meeting: My name is Katarina, I’m a polyandrist 🙂

    I have 2 part-time husbands, one in LA, one in Seattle and I spend 2 weeks with my LA hubby and 2 weeks with my Seattle hubby each month! Not to mention other less committed/random lovers on the side. And I feel like a freaking diva!!

    I really think multiple lovers actually work better for women than for men as women value love first and men freedom. Men can have all the freedom they want, and women all the love, attention and adoration they need from many lovers. It works for everyone concerned at this point ’cause none of us is ready for the permanent thing.

    What do you guys think? LOL….

    Yes I trust SG really loves me. He basically “proposed” already, to be his “part time wife.” Considering we only have passed our first month anniversary, I think this is something to celebrate. He said, we have all week to discuss it when I come for a visit so we can come up with a mutually satisfying “arrangement.”

    Arrangement? Gee, I feel like a sugar baby now. 🙂 Not that he has all the money to spend on me after his divorce. But I’m flattered the subject even came up so early in our courtship and he initiated too so I don’t have to force him to have the “talk” months down the road. I know now, he’s already debating about how this is going to work with us long-term.

    I’m not too worried though. He feels apprehensive now for obvious reasons, but I feel the more he knows me and spends time with me, things will change naturally. I told him I had no expectations with him and I was totally with him in regards of his feelings about marriage. And he said, he felt closer to me for being understanding. And I certainly wouldn’t want to do all the convincing talks the way his exes did with him so he married them (yes he divorced twice and they ruined it for the new women in his life!).

    Meanwhile my SF date (let’s call him SFG) last week invited me to come visit him in SF. I don’t have as strong a feeling I have for SG, but he took me to a such a great restaurant (one of the best I have visited) and made me come twice through oral sex (not many guys can do that). So I put him on schedule for December/January. 🙂

    I feel so spoiled…!

  136.  #136Katarina Phang on October 12, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    Meanwhile in the diva land, an old younger lover many years back wrote me this email:

    “I do miss you….I miss a lot of things about you…I would love to see you but don’t have the opportunity in the near future, just wondering how you are…still as hot as ever?

    Honestly, I do have a gf….but somehow I always go back to memories of you…so sensual, so smooth, such a great body…and tasted so good, everywhere.

    I love my gf so much, but sexually she doesn’t do it as much for me anymore, probably because she’s not staying in shape…u know how that goes…so I’m not sure what I’m doing right now.

    I don’t mean to waste your time, was just wondering about you.”

    It feels great to be adored and have guys/exes come to you and profess how much you captured their imaginations and never let go.

    When you have this, you will no longer focus all your psychic energy on one guy and radiate that needy/clingy vibration.

  137.  #137Frenchkitty on October 12, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    Hello Kacy!

    Just thought I’d put in my tuppence worth on Libra man, as I have my own experiences with one. We’ve been through two relationship cycles, and I ruined it twice by listening to the “Libra men love attention” line and doing too much of the rowing. It’s true, they love attention (mine can get quite sulky when he’s not the centre of attention), they hesitate, and seem and incapable of making a decision, but they’re just as able to pick up the oars as any other guy. And just as turned off if the girl does all the work.

    So at the moment we’re at the start of cycle 3, and I’ve realised I’d better try something different if I don’t want it to go wrong again. That’s how I came across this site. I’m a complete beginner at this leaning back lark and can only lay claim to the tiniest of baby steps, but I can tell you that the results are instant and quite astounding. I noticed a complete shift in his behaviour when I switched from old patterns to new “tools” mid-conversation; this was my first attempt, after a separation of several months, and the meeting had not started well.
    I saw the man in question, who I call MC for Monsieur Catastrophe, last night. I’m relaxing into leaning back now. And it’s still working. I meant to ask him for two things, but didn’t have to. He gave them to me before I got round to asking. And then, as I left, he picked me a rose and gave me the sweetest goodbye kiss I’ve had from him in quite a long time. I was really, really surprised. And very proud of myself for getting into my car, driving off, and not asking him to call me or try and arrange the next meeting. I know when he’s ready he’ll call. He always has. But sometimes it does take a while…

    So I would say give it a try and see how it works for you. Have patience and don’t try rush anything. (I’m telling myself this as much as you….)

  138.  #138Ella on October 12, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    I realised soomething… I feel really angry with men….

    Grrrrr, I am so angry! For all the times I have been let down and hurt and led astray… but who am I really angry with?

    Hmmm, interesting.

    And you know what else I realised… I hold my anger in my vagina. That feels so weird to say, and I kinda feel a bit embarrassed, ashamed and judged… by me… as I think that sounds a little weird…

    But it is a thought/ or maybe a feeling, tha I have had for a while, that wouldn’t go away.

    I have always done pelvic floor exercises, however at the end of my last relationship we stopped sleeping together, and when we did he said I felt really tense down there… and I did, I felt it too.

    And it was tied into feeling tense and angry generally, about the relationship, how it was going wrong, how I lost what I believed I was ENTITLED to!! How demanding is that, to believe you are entitled to a relationship or to love…

    And I was/am soooo angry a myself, why couldn’t I do it?? Why? What is wrong with me?

    And I also feel the anger in my throat. Especially when I start thinking too much.

    There is an episode of friends where Monica gets told she has a hostile womb, well recently I have been feeling as though I have a hostile vagina. Lol… sounds kinda funny! Silly me.

    But I think this has been true for me and I want to heal this. I want to melt away this anger and replace it with love and trust. I want to feel open again,

    everywhere, and connected, even in my vagina.

    Whaaa – you know I never even used to feel comfortable to SAY that word… it felt dirty to me! I was judgmental…

    So much stuff here for me around judging and anger.

    Anyway I would like to find a man who I can be close to who I feel so good with, and trust so much that that anger there melts away.

    I guess it would be healing. Sexual healing? Love healing, who knows… but I want to embrace that part of me too…

    Owww I feel like a new age hippy!

    And a bit silly, and cross… grrrr.

    Yipeee, I love my anger… I love my judgmental self who is really fear.

    I love my feelings which will help me heal.

  139.  #139Senior Lady Vibe on October 12, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    131: life_is_too_short_to… says: “I loved Enchanted April and want to see it again, those were true women of substance….and I don’t think I saw Ever After, but I want to. I also want to see Somewhere in Time. I’m going to check and see if the library has them too.”

    EV is MIA at my library but I added S I T, ohhhhhh Christropher Reeve….I saw him and Jane Seymour in this years ago…ordered it again!

    I’m getting all romantic. 😀


  140.  #140Frenchkitty on October 12, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    Yeah Ella,

    I’ve been asking myself that too… who am I angry with?

    For a long time, I was angry with HIM, but now I’m angry with myself. Angry for not saying I was angry when I was, angry for letting myself be treated badly, angry for treating myself badly…

    There’s probably lots more in there… but this is good anger. Anger that gives me the energy to change things… my own behaviour patterns especially. It’s the kind of anger that feels good!

  141.  #141Katarina Phang on October 12, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    I understand Mercedes’s trigger (as someone who has been cheated on) as well as Jacq’s fine reasoning that the man is the ultimate person to blame to have allowed this affair to take place.

    I really dislike that woman Rielle Hunter, for what “she did” to Elizabeth Edward’s. Yet at the same time, I could somehow understand why she let that happen (lust, romantic love, the intoxicating feeling of falling in love with a man who went out his way to be with you, etc…)…it was because that scumbag Johnny boy allowed it to happen. Had he shown no interest, she wouldn’t have been in the picture.


    She’s right that no woman can “steal” a man from his wife. Yet, I dislike this woman…rationally or not.

  142.  #142Katarina Phang on October 12, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    Sorry, I put this on a wrong thread….going to move it to the other. 🙂

  143.  #143Renee on October 12, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    Ella — You know whom you need to speak to about your tense vagina and that’s Tinque. She’s also a coach, but she has an ebook on sexual/love healing and it deals a lot with the issue you discuss.

    I think if you click on her name it takes you to her blog.

  144.  #144Ella on October 12, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    I want to be married… but I can’t be married, not me! I am not the marrying type…

    Urghhh marraige is icky, yukky! Yuk yuk yuk…

    But yum yum yum too.

    It feels tight inmy throat, like I can’t really have this, I am not really allowed. It is not for me, it is for the better girls!

    Oh, that is school!

    Wow, now I feel soft towards me.

    Me me me, all about me.

    Oh, but I am selfish and the ‘T’ doesn’t work.

    I love my conflcit. I love my guilt. I am a martyre.

    I feel hard in my heart. I want to be married bu I feel guilty.

    I is not right is it? To want that. It is not for me. But I do WANT IT – NOW!

    But not yet. First I have to heal the turmoil.

    I make myself sick sometimes. This feels hard to write.

    Do I want to be married? Or do I just wanted to be loved.

    Do I just want to learn to be intimate??

    But I HATE intimacy! It is too much. Men who are intimate are woosy.

    Or maybe they are not, maybe there is some balance if I can just find it.

    My head hurts when I use it too much, must use my heart instead. My heart is strong, My heart is opening.

    Do I believe in all this? I don’t know, is it just a fad? That makes me feel SCARED!

    I want it to work. I want to be a Rori-bot… but no, still me!

    A me-bot. What is that. I am getting to know.

    I think it works. I feel good. I feel good.

    I love my feelings.

  145.  #145Ella on October 12, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Oh, and I feel bashful! I made myself smile. Awww, to me. 🙂

  146.  #146Ella on October 12, 2010 at 4:51 pm


    Thank you I will check it out.

    This feels so weird for me, I never thought I would be discussing my vagina with others!

    Oh I feel shamful. But it’s ok.

    Thanks Renee. I am learning here.

  147.  #147Ella on October 12, 2010 at 4:55 pm


    If you see the post above #138 – any thoughts/advice you have on this would be greatly appreciated.


  148.  #148Ashley on October 12, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    Ugh… I’m such a control freak in every other part of my life, and this leaning back thing is not easy. I work in construction and at work have to be a very different person than the person I want to be in my relationships, and its so difficult to learn this transition. This is all so new to me… and so frustrating. But I’m trying.

    I feel awful today. I’m exhausted and irritated with my job and anxious about boy and I want so badly to call/text/facebook him… but I know I shouldn’t. And I’m not going to… but it doesn’t ease the feeling of needing to curl into a ball and just cry right now. I’ve put the ball in his court and am trying to just lean back and see what comes of it. It’s very unnerving for a control freak like me…

  149.  #149Brenda on October 12, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    I had a nice talk with Bill today! We were scheduled for a one hour meeting, but two of the participants didn’t show up. Bill and I ended up spending that hour talking! He is very knowledgeable and wise on politics and history! It was good Siren practice, and I am really thankful for my friend Bill! 🙂


    Here are some more of my favorite romantic movies, the ones I watch again and again and again!

    Never Been Kissed
    Maid in Manhattan
    Working Girl
    Blue Crush
    Miss Congeniality
    Bringing Down the House

    And I am really into the Twilight series, too. What are some of your favorites (anyone)? 🙂

  150.  #150life_is_too_short_to... on October 12, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    Donna Eden audio interview
    available to listen to for 48 hours

    “Get to the Core with Energy”


  151.  #151Brenda on October 12, 2010 at 5:16 pm


    When I read what you wrote about emotions in your vagina, etc, it felt beautiful. It is just the sort of thing Rori addresses, especially in Modern Siren. I admire Daria when I hear her speak so openly of her vagina. I feel good about it all because we are finding deep healing, and it is all part of the healing, because emotions are felt in our bodies.

    The more we sink into our feminine, and gain that amazing awareness of our sexuality, emotions, feelings, all that…the more we become beautiful, feminine, and healed!

    No need for shame. I hope you give yourself a bubble bath or get a massage to celebrate your femininity.

    What I have found is when I am under stress, I feel less sexual feelings and I feel closed in my vagina. I am becoming more conscious of that and loving myself by touching myself when I am lonely, opening myself up.

  152.  #152Rori Raye on October 12, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    Ashley – you’re doing BRILLIANTLY! This crappy feeling means you’e letting go of some old stuff…it’s a transition. Be gentle with yourself. Love, Rori

  153.  #153Brenda on October 12, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    Happy Bren! I just got off the phone with Gentle Man! We only talked 11 minutes cuz he didn’t have much time, but it was a very rich conversation, and we are going to meet this weekend! I love talking with him! It just goes to an emotional level, and he is so sensitive! I mean my whole conversation was laced with feeling messages! I really like my new cub!

  154.  #154Brenda on October 12, 2010 at 5:21 pm


    RE: #148 – Welcome! Whew, do I relate to you! I have been coming unglued sometimes by requiring myself to not contact Ryan. Today is Day 9 and it is next to impossible for me to not call him!

    Did you see the movie, “Flashdance”? I bet you really relate to that being in construction!

  155.  #155Senior Lady Vibe on October 12, 2010 at 5:26 pm

    @148: Brenda:

    It’s a good thing to have a guy friend like Bill.

    I’ll go put your whole film list on reserve.

    I have not seen (nor read the “Twilight” series), I’d like to.

    I’d have to think a bit for a whole list of films but I really like Meryl Streep and Robert Redford in “Out of Africa”–I’ve replayed the DVD over the years, oh, about 50 times…everytime I hear that film score and the narration: “I had a farm in African…” chills.


  156.  #156Ella on October 12, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    Thank you Brenda.

    I feel more comfortable and softer when I read your answer.

    It feels good to know that I am not judged.

    I do not have Modern Siren yet… it is next on my list. x

  157.  #157Senior Lady Vibe on October 12, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    I guess that should read “I had a farm in AFRICA…” 😆


  158.  #158Kacy on October 12, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    Thanks Frenchkitty for your response.

    Some of what I’ve been reading about Libra men and how they tend to take forever to make decisions about moving forward in a relationship is very discouraging. I’ve read that they keep themselves emotionally distant or aloof to rope the lady in and can be very indicisive about moving from one step to the next.Always having to weigh heavily if thats the direction they want to go with you or if you measure up to what they would view as a lifelong partner. I’m okay with not rushing into anything sexual or serious but, it just seems that his actions aren’t fitting what I believe he feels. It’s like he’s purposely being hard to get?? It took him 2 months after meeting me to get my phone number although there were some legitimate reasons sprinkled throughout. He went to China to see his daughter studying there and moved his other daughter to college campus. Some of the other times we’ve seen each other he didn’t call me directly to make arrangements but showed up with the yacht club wine tasting and another yacht party for example and then stuck next to me for the entire time.The next event he did initiate my stating that he should come over to the yacht get together and spend the day with me there although he didn’t have plans to do so. He did show up and was very attentive to me and took me off to walk the beach, photograph and take walks together. So he did row the boat and I let him. I don’t call, text or email except after the wine tasting event to thank him for the tastings he purchased and for the fun day. He has initiated the other occasions except for the last one which was an invitation from mutual friends to come to dinner, he did accept the invitation for both of us, however. He seems to want to take things very slowly and he will give me a quick tender kiss on the lips when we see each other or when we part ways, but seems almost insecure about taking anything further. There has been no romantic kisses even though I feel that he is very attracted to me and when he comes forward towards me, I am very warm and appreciative. I have wondered if I intimidate him and he feels that he doesn’t want to risk rejection which I’ve also read can be an issue with Libra men. He is an attractive man, about 6’3. Would probably rate his looks at about 7.5 on a scale of 1-10. Several of our friends tell me that they would rate me at about 9. I only mention this because I am considering whether this is a factor about his hesitation or it has more to do with the Libra tendency to want to be friends before lovers. I believe that you are saying to me that even if he has that Libran tendency, that I still need to allow or gently force him to step up and take the lead in rowing the boat. I feel glad that I have been doing that at this point, I’m just not sure if I can deal with the long periods of time that it takes him to take one step forward or what almost seems as a contrived aloofness or purposeful distance to keep from moving forward. It’s this contrived quality that really bothers me as it triggers my trust issues with his motives, whether they should be questioned or not. Last week in a phone call, from him, he did ask me how I felt about he and I dating at our age (50). I said that I thought it was great. That although I keep myself busy and happy with friends and interests that I would love have someone special in my life to share things with. He seemed very pleased to hear that. It seemed to me that this was his way of letting me know that we are officially a dating couple. He has also spoken a few times about realizing that he may need to change his living situation since he lives on his sailboat. Looked at me and said “I bet your glad to hear that aren’t you?” Wondered if I knew anything about living on a houseboat for instance. Please share your thoughts with me. Do I just step back and let him row and practice patience since this is still so new and not try to force anything forward?

  159.  #159tinque on October 12, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    Ella – yes you’re right about holding emotions in your vagina. I go as far to say women hold every hurt and every trauma therein. And like anything else, like this work, like releasing old habits, like learning new ways to be, it’s a process to let that stuff go from your lady parts.
    I was shocked to find how much stuff I was holding, and over the years I’ve let SO much go, yet there’s still more. Even so, what has been released has opened up my whole world in all ways, emotionally, spiritually, mentally, and of course physically. As a result, my whole sexual world has changed, expanded into realms I had only read about and dreamed of. And I know there’s still more.

  160.  #160Brenda on October 12, 2010 at 5:41 pm


    Yes, Out of Africa is a beautiful movie! Right now my 19 year old niece is spending a semester in Rwanda with a group of students from her college! I keep thinking how she is developing an awesome memory that will last a lifetime, “I had a semester in Africa…” When you do something that farout, later in life it feels like a dream! I feel a little that way about spending 2.5 years in the desert in Arizona! And about going to college in Oklahoma!


    You’re welcome! You really are in good company for such conversation. And here’s something else that means a lot to me…

    I was counseling with my pastor, a pure, fatherly 60 year old man, when I was 26. I felt so lost, because I had little education about relationships and sex. He really helped me be more socially and sexually aware around men, in a healthy way. He said, “With the right person, you should be able to talk about sex like mashed potatoes and gravy!”

    It blew me away when he said it, because that subject was hush-hush in my family. Yet it was clear he was only trying to help me, not take advantage of me. I have come to see that as a very healthy statement. And, I believe this forum is the right place to discuss such things.

    The next week, I tested him on his opening our discussion for sexual topics. I said, “I’ve always heard that everyone has a God-shaped hole that only God can fill. I’m saying I got a man-shaped hole that only a man can fill!”

    He laughed heartily and said, “You’ll just have to control yourself, dear!” He encouraged me to hug a pillow and imagine it was Jes*s, and to fall in love with Him. It helped immensely, and here I am recalling it 20 years later!

  161.  #161Katarina Phang on October 12, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    Here’s an interesting exchange of text messages with SG today:

    SG: Miss u baby
    Me: Good thing is we’re going to be hot for each other for a long time. I’m okay with prolonged honeymoon period. 🙂
    SG: Me toooo
    Me: smooch…
    SG: smooch to you too – less than a week now to return to our honeymoon life as mommy/daddy.

    Hours later

    Me: Hot papa, when you go to the grocery store, can you get mommy a pair of gloves for washing the dishes? Don’t want to spoil my goddess’s hands and nails. Thanks.
    SG: Yes dear -scrubbing pots and pans during the day and stroking big daddy’s hot and bothered ragin cock after Jr goes to sleep at night. 🙂
    Me: Sounds like a plan. Glamorous domesticated diva jobs for your california imported Asian Goddess.
    Me: …or part-time wife….to be precise.
    SG: Sounds like a man’s dream come true -what’s in it for you?
    Me: Not sure yet. One day I will raise that question….don’t you worry LOL… I’m glad you’re very self-aware. Love you, hubby.;) Enjoy it while it lasts…haha.
    SG: I will – I hope it lasts a loooong time and most of all… that we are both happy!
    Me: We’ll definitely talk about it. Right now -for at least 6 months- I’m happy to be your wife 1-2 weeks a month (maybe starting next trip?). If one isn’t happy the other will know and new arrangement will ensue. This is modern marriage made in heaven lol…
    SG: We might be able to write a book or article about it??
    Me: Haha…I am. No royalty for you though ;).

  162.  #162tinque on October 12, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    Kacy _ My suggestion is patience. If this man is anything like my Libra man, they don’t like to be pushed, pressured. Their timetable will not look anything like yours.
    As an example, it took K three years to voice aloud he loved me.
    BUT as your reward, when he feels safe with you, the love that will be bestowed will feel like the most amazing treasure.

  163.  #163Kacy on October 12, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    P.S. How would I express these concerns with him in feeling messages and is it too soon to even contemplate expressing them? Would it feel to him that I was trying to rush the pace by even indicating that I have concerns about this?

  164.  #164tinque on October 12, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    My experience was a yes to this question Kacy. I did try it, and it did not go over too well, but I was a newbie to speaking up at all let alone in feeling messages. Not sure if that had anything to do with it.
    My Libra man needed to come to his decisions in his own time and in his own way.
    What helped me and kept me going through what felt to me was a long period of uncertainty was my deep knowing that this man would not play around while with me, that he was committed to me even if he couldn’t voice it, and I just knew in my deepest places that he loved me. He needed time to see what I was going to do (I was still quite a mess from my whole life but mostly from my ex). He needed to see if I was truly his “the one”, and in retrospect I’m grateful, for my pattern is to rush into things without really take a good look at what is. Why? Because of my insecurities and feelings of unloveability in former times.
    Once he decided that yes I was his woman for always, everything changed though it wasn’t an overnight thing. It was gradual, but in a way it felt quick.
    Does this make sense?

  165.  #165Ashley on October 12, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    Thank you Rori and Brenda… I think I needed affirmation that I’m doing ok. I work nights right now and some nights, especially when I’m tired, its hard to keep my mind from going where it shouldn’t. But I’ll continue to work on using feelings and leaning back and things will work out, one way or another….

  166.  #166Kacy on October 12, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    Tinque, How did you carry around those feelings of frustration about being put off or the relationship being stalled or not moving at YOUR natural pace. Was it not overwhelming at times to feel that you couldn’t even express your true feelings about it? Did it not affect the openness of the relationship and being in the moment in the relationship?

  167.  #167Lizzie on October 12, 2010 at 7:55 pm

    I read your post early this AM and didn’t have time then to provide any insight, but maybe I can weigh in now – I did a quickie look at the days’ posts and do feel that Tinque and Mercedes and others provide wisdom.

    I have had the same type of feelings as you – with Family Guy. I met him in April. He was really wanting to meet then over about a 6 week time we had about 4 dates. The last was a fabulous golf/dinner/play – my best date ever! Then NOTHING! I was shock and awe!! We did have one me-initiated meet at the end of July, a few emails in August and absolutely nothing since. Then out of the blue, completely by surprise, he sent me a note last week and alluded to a date in the near future. And I am delighted and completely leaning back and just lounging in the boat full well knowing he will pick up the oars and row when he is ready to do so.

    Now then, what I went through to become a lounge-lizard hanging gracefully in the boat….LOL!! All the lovely sirens here will confirm I suffered similar angst as you!

    Sometimes it takes a bit to turn the focus from “him” to “self” and when we do it, it really makes a gargantuan difference.

    Focus from “what is going on with him” – I put a context that makes sense around it, just because I am a personality type that has a compelling need to understand (understand anything! and I make myself suitably insane as a result – I even need to sit myself down once in a while and tell me to “back-off babe!”). So in my case the context is quite simply a statement of facts:
    – he is a Cancer – these guys scurry and hide
    – he is a 50% time care giver of his twins who are younger than my kids and one is 100% dependent-disabled; that alone is incredibly demanding. When he has his week on he doesn’t even get to sleep through the night
    – he is a busy executive with a demanding job
    – his ex is asking him for more money
    – he has been working in another city
    – a few times I haven’t been available
    – he is a guy with a LOT on his plate and we don’t have time to develop a relationship
    – I think he is a bit reluctant to get involved in a relationship that could be a repeat pattern of his previous 2 long term relationships – seems he became “a project” and he made a few little comments about “women sending him emails asking why he hasn’t responded to an earlier email that they had sent him earlier (being needy)”

    I used that as my way of understanding. Now I can park it with the view that:
    – he will call me when he is ready to call me
    – I will be delighted and surprised
    – I discovered I absolutely love it when he sets up a date – it feels so amazing!! I had written here in the summer that I want to feel:
    – wanted
    – desired
    – sexy
    – turned-on
    – enjoyed
    – connected and understood

    I didn’t say, I want to be called every day; check-in on frequently; regular plans or any of that. I want to feel wanted. Seems so simple – and so unbelievably difficult at the same time.

    The sirens here really helped me hugely. To begin the journey of switching my focus from “him and his stuff” to creating the environment for me to feel “wanted…etc”. In order for that to happen, I did some inner-work on recognizing sensation-reactions in my body, tracking and labeling them; recognizing what and where they come from – this is quite difficult for me because of all the walls I have built around myself – self-protection; recognizing that self-protection needs to be broken down by me to be able to let a man give to me the love/affection/wanting/lusting that I want to have from them. Practicing receiving from others – Circle Dating and for me that is mostly recognizing what I actually do quite naturally – recognizing the feeling-sensations that I get from others that I ignored in the past, and attending to and honouring these sensations. Being here on the list and exploring with all the others here, learning from their experiences and attending to my own; all the while I am becoming clearer and clearer about what I really want and what really works for me – and I might even say this is a bit different than what I might have thought a year ago.

    Anyway, it is important to me, to let my man “show-up” – it feels amazing when he does! absolutely amazing!! and I have managed to let go of all kinds of expectations – sure they flash through my mind every once in a while. things like: wouldn’t it be nice to have a boyfriend for my birthday this year…wouldn’t it be nice to have someone to play golf with this summer….wouldn’t it be nice to plan for a Christmas date…. – but I don’t hold on to those thoughts when I am with myself. These only seem to come up when others ask me if “we” are making plans. The other thing I do – and I believe I either saw this in your note, or I understood you are doing this – I don’t ask “when am I seeing you again?” at the end of a date. I have been able to completely and thoroughly stay present and enjoy his company for that date without any expectation of future dates. We have had wonderful time together, I cherish that time, and yes, I do wish for more and when and if it happens, I will completely and thoroughly enjoy my time with him.

    I hope my story is of some help for you. It is a journey and I practice a little bit every day.

  168.  #168Lizzie on October 12, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    OMG!!! I hope everyone can take a moment and pray for the amazing rescue in Chile!!!
    I grew up in the mining industry – this is a miracle unfolding. I think I am about to cry.

  169.  #169Simply Shannon on October 12, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    Lizzie, I’m praying. I cannot watch but I am praying.

  170.  #170Katarina Phang on October 12, 2010 at 8:19 pm

    I’m watching it now…so touching. Humans bond in time of hardship like this, simply beautiful.

  171.  #171Lizzie on October 12, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    OH! I burst into tears when the first miner came to the surface – a miracle.

  172.  #172Surfgirl on October 12, 2010 at 10:56 pm

    Hello Lovely Ladies –

    I recently started dating a man, and I’m feeling a little undervalued by him right now. Last night when we were out, he told me that he’s not ready for a relationship. I’ve put together a speech and would love your feedback on it.

    First, some context to the story – I’ve known him for several months & when I first met him, he was in a relationship that he’d been in for about 7 years (unhappily). His ex was apparently pressuring him to marry her, and he was not on the same page. I was attracted to him and enjoyed spending time around him, but kept things strictly on a ‘friends’ level and didn’t flirt with him because he was attached.

    About 6 months or so after I met him, he and his ex split up (this summer). 4 months after that, he asked me out to join him at a sporting event and we began dating. He said that he liked me ever since he met me and really liked my positive attitude.

    I spent the night at his house that night, but didn’t sleep with him despite his asking me about 10 times. I did sleep with him a week or so later (too soon, I know!), but I thought it was ok because we knew each other several months.

    We’ve been dating the past 3 weeks or so, and he’s getting more and more blase about me. He is always very attentive and interested when he’s with me, and I feel good and treasured when I’m with him, but when I’m not, I feel quite a bit neglected by him.

    Last night when we went out for drinks and appetizers he let me know that he’s not ready to be in a relationship, which I can understand because he just got out of a long-term one. However, what really bothered (and hurt!) me is that he said ‘hanging out with you has been better than being by myself’. He all of the sudden seems very unconcerned, like he appreciates me as a person but not as relationship material. He keeps telling me ‘you have such a great attitude’.

    He has texted me twice since our date last night when he told me these things, and I haven’t responded yet.

    Here is what I am thinking of telling him:

    I’m feeling a little undervalued by you right now. I like to feel like I’m treasured & wanted, like any girl does. I like to feel cherished and desired in my relationships with men. I feel like I deserve someone to be excited about me, and I’m willing to hold out for that. I don’t want to date someone who feels laissez-faire or blase about me. I don’t want to feel unimportant or like a convenience. I want to feel special and treasured. I want to be with a man who is crazy about me, as much as I am about him. I feel like I may have misunderstood your feelings towards me. It sounds like maybe you need some time to yourself. I can respect and honor that. What do you think?

    So now, ladies, what do you think?

    Thank you…

  173.  #173jacqueline on October 12, 2010 at 10:57 pm

    Honey are you seeing this? We usually jump onto the newest or second newest page to talk – I would have not even seen that strangeness posted about me if I wasn’t emailed. So, here we are…

    And I’ve gotta get off but I’m going to look for Daria to tell you more – she’s been here like 2 years??


  174.  #174jacqueline on October 12, 2010 at 10:59 pm

    Daria???? are you around here?


  175.  #175Kacy on October 12, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    Okay, so this is what I would say to this new man in my life that seems to being going turtle slow and hesitant. (Please see my prior comments about this at #’s 72,73,103, 113 and 158.)

    “Remember last week when you asked me on the phone how I feel about dating @ our age? I’d like to add a thought to what I said. I told you that I think it’s GREAT and there’s no better time because we know ourselves better now than ever.

    I want to add that I know there are risks to dating. Risk of a broken heart. Risk of things not working out as we all hope for.

    But I think the risk is worth it to have the chance of that kind of love we all want. I don’t mind taking that risk with you because I like you and I have a good feeling with you.

    I don’t mind taking things slowly but: I don’t want to risk my feelings and put them out there if we’re not on the same page in wanting to work towards a meaningful relationship. How do you feel?

    I love being affectionate and close physically, it’s very much who I am, but I don’t know how you feel about that. I don’t want to reach out in affectionate ways if you are uncomfortable with that especially at this point. Can you share with me how you feel about that?”

    So Sirens, is it ever appropriate to deliver these messages any other way but face to face? I don’t suppose it would be okay to discuss this over the phone or via email? Any thoughts about the message or how to deliver it?

  176.  #176jacqueline on October 12, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    Honey – just follow up here or on the second newest post – and don’t worry about that -whatever! I’m going to let Rori address it if she wants and just keep being happy here.

    Mostly we practice tools, we always get off topic, lol, and we make friends – or at least I have. A lot of us have blogs – you click on our name and it takes you there. Some of us are coaches (not me) and some are brand new.

    I always recommend to read through all Rori’s back posts – they are pure gold for learning; and everyone here will help you.

    Again, I’ve never seen anything like that – it felt very personally directed at me, and it’ll be dealt with somehow.

    It’s not our problem- you just keep hanging out and you’ll find plenty of good here!

    Goodnite to you – and to everyone!


  177.  #177jacqueline on October 12, 2010 at 11:06 pm

    Hi, Kacy – I’ve got to go – it’s 1 a.m. and the board might be slow but check back in the am and there’ll be a lot of good advice for you. In situations where communication is an issue I always want to go for face to face. But you might want to read Rori’s scripting posts, too….more feeling messages for you on your part – I feel I want….It felt good when you and I talked about….etc.

    You’ll get more input tomorrow – and I’m glad you’re here –

    Take care and wishing you well!


  178.  #178jacqueline on October 12, 2010 at 11:10 pm

    HONEY…do you see ME???? Hide and seeking HONEY….

  179.  #179Lucy on October 12, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    “I’ve never seen anything like that.” Well, Jacqueline, I have – it is very similar to what you were writing to me awhile ago. I feel surprised and somewhat amused.

  180.  #180jacqueline on October 12, 2010 at 11:27 pm

    Really Lucy? I said I think you had been born a man? and that you were self projecting putrid? Do you want to go that far?? Because it does feel like it’s been planned….

  181.  #181jacqueline on October 12, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    and you are amused that Denise, Amber, Honey and a few others felt unsafe and threatened? okay, you and Loneplum can start a new club….and bully me. Make sure it is ONLY me tho – okay?

  182.  #182Lucy on October 12, 2010 at 11:35 pm

    You didn’t say the *same* things, but similar type things that had the same effect as Lp’s words. Maybe she too is doing est techniques, who knows? The feel is quite similar to what I experienced from you. What do you mean “it feels like it’s been planned”?

  183.  #183Lucy on October 12, 2010 at 11:38 pm

    Jacqueline, I am not bullying you. I wonder why it feels that way to you. I was simply responding to your comment about not having seen anything like that before – bc I have seen it here, by you. How is that bullying?

  184.  #184jacqueline on October 12, 2010 at 11:39 pm

    I don’t think it’s random, I don’t think it’s a mistake that it was basically hidden. I think you are being mean and wrong to say that – I asked you who was responsible for your feelings, Lucy – and that was all I asked. Perhaps you haven’t read the putrid slurs in all the posts? But if you are amused, you as the moral high ground taker are certainly losing ground by it.

  185.  #185Lucy on October 12, 2010 at 11:46 pm

    I feel annoyed by words being put in my mouth. I am not amused that some girls felt unsafe and threatened – just as I was not amused when some of us felt unsafe and threatened by YOUR words. I was amused that you weren’t seeing that you had done the same thing LP did – a blind spot I guess.

  186.  #186jacqueline on October 12, 2010 at 11:55 pm

    @ Lucy –

    1. I was posting to Honey, not you.
    2. When I did post to you in the incident you are referring there were not 1/2 dozen people saying they felt bad and unsafe by that interaction. You also did not mention anyone emailing you about it.
    3. I am not here to create an environment of discord.
    4. I don’t care if you feel annoyed; I was here to help Honey find the newest thread. And you don’t get to judge what my blind spots are, you can find amusement in the fact that you think you can. And that’s as far as it goes. I don’t agree, I feel manipulated by this interaction and I am doing you a huge, laughing favor.

    By saying goodnite, instead of continuing on with this.

    Since you are so very insightful and wise and amused at my expense, YOU can help the newest girls feel safe.

    Good luck with leading by example.


  187.  #187Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 12:02 am

    I feel curious about being called “mean” and “wrong.” It feels bad. I don’t want to be called mean and wrong. I remember thinking that J was mean and wrong in the way she was treating me, but I tried my best to stick with expressing my own feelings rather than judge and make her wrong. I don’t recall how well I succeeded with that, but that was my intent and effort.

  188.  #188Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 12:09 am

    J, just bc i didn’t mention ppl emailing me doesn’t mean they didn’t. i don’t like to “build armies” by talking about who is emailing whom about conflicts. AND, there were several girls who wrote on the blog that they felt unsafe. None of us are here to promote discord, but as Rori said in today’s post, sometimes loving words are tough to hear.

  189.  #189Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 12:14 am


    RE: #172 – I am in a somewhat similar situation with a man who doesn’t want a serious relationship, namely Gentle Man.

    Your overall message looks right on, but I would shorten it to just a couple of sentences, unless he’s a real emotional man and can handle it. But most men shut down with that much emotion being expressed.

    I received this email from Gentle Man:

    I had a wonderful time talking with you and you are so nice and down to earth. So genuine. And your poem was incredibly moving and intense. I really didn’t know how to respond. Almost felt like I wasn’t worthy of hearing it. It only increased my respect for you and made me realize how deserving you are of someone who will give you what you need. Who will have the time and the ability to be there for you and to put as much into the relationship as you deserve.

    Unfortunately, I don’t know if I’m that person. With my work schedule and having to work nights and weekends, time commitments can be an issue. I don’t want to end up not being able to give you the 100%. I don’t want to end up hurting you or disappointing you and I’m just being honest and laying out some of my feelings before things get deeper.

    In my case, I really respect his honesty, and that in itself makes me feel safe, like I’m not being played. He is not ready for a serious, committed relationship. I decided I really want to meet him anyway, and at least have a friendship. He is really unique and has a completely different approach to getting acquainted than the average man.

    I guess the difference is I don’t have any emotions invested yet. You have had several wonderful dates. I am intrigued by this man and am just going to go into it with the thought of “just friendship”. He still wants to meet me, too.

    I wish you the best in your situation. Your feeling messages are very good. I just wonder if they need to be trimmed down.

  190.  #190jacqueline on October 13, 2010 at 12:22 am

    Lucy – people posted on the board HERE not by email, that they felt unsafe. Please try for accuracy. And I feel nothing loving in your words, but again – I leave you to lead by example. And if you are saying being told that someone thinks you were born a man is loving – that’s pretty skewed loving. And Rori posted about it – but I have no desire to listen to any kind of “love” masquerade, nor am attracted to it. Some have noticed I’ve changed, perhaps you haven’t. For someone today to decide to attack me about something that happened what – two months ago? – is ridiculous. I feel sad that you seem to be gloating and feeling happy and vindicated. And I feel like saying goodbye.

    Will give that some thought. But if the only way for yourself and loneplum to feel safe is if I am gone? you will never find a way to feel safe, IMO.

  191.  #191Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 12:23 am


    RE: #175 – I like your message to your man. I have tried using text, phone, and email, and I far prefer discussing something like this in person, if possible. Is there a reason you can’t?

  192.  #192Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 12:32 am


    Maybe this is a good opportunity to practice feeling messages…nonviolent communication.

    I felt yucky, very yucky, when I read what Lone Plum wrote about you. I would have felt very, very bad if someone had written that about me. I didn’t comment when I first read it only because I was especially busy today and was just scanning over the “island”.

    Can I help you construct some feeling messages about it? How about…

    I feel angry. I feel judged. I feel awful reading such cold judgments about me, and I don’t like it. What do you think or feel?

  193.  #193Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 12:37 am


    I’m probably unwise to hop in a conflict that is not my own. But another thought is when Lucy throws a curve at you, you could use more feeling messages, just a few sentences. When you engage her, it becomes a full blown argument.

    The exchange between you and Lucy feels yucky to me, also, on both ends. If I were you or if I were Lucy, I would feel attacked and angry.

    Why not just cut to the chase and state it gut level?

    I feel angry. I don’t want to be treated with disrespect, and I am walking away.

    Then go do something relaxing. You don’t need to allow yourself to be treated badly. By staying in the argument, you are leaving yourself open for hurt.

    What do you think and feel?

  194.  #194Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 12:38 am

    Jacqueline, my words were indeed accurate, as you will see if you read carefully thru this discussion.

  195.  #195Daria on October 13, 2010 at 12:41 am

    Brenda – I personally feel too scared sometimes to communicate face to face with a man abou something that feels bad. Text had Bern great for me. I find that communicating through text and phone, to my surprise… Has still felt just as deep and connected as face to face… Once I know a man.

    I feel a bit sorry for you that this hasn’t Bern your experience… I wonder about this… It feels uncomfortable to address you about it, too…

    I feel free knowing that all these forms of communication work equally well fir me to share with a man, once I know him in person.

  196.  #196Daria on October 13, 2010 at 12:46 am

    I feel curious whether Im missing out on something by not sharing only face to face… But no, it feels good to share in the moment, whether text or phone or in person..

    Babysteps to in the moment, today face to face instead of waiting till after to text … Tho I didn’t face him when talking… I still shared, however whateveredium it comes out, it’s the sharing that feels good, the more in the moment the better it feels

  197.  #197Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 1:05 am


    1. Yes, I have noticed that you have changed.
    2. I am wondering if you are being triggered now, for further growth.
    3. I am sorry that you *feel* attacked.
    4. I am sorry that you don’t feel my loving intent.
    5. I feel sad and misunderstood when I read “For someone today to decide to attack me about something that happened what – two months ago” — I feel sad and misunderstood that my words are being misinterpreted that way — especially as an attack.
    6. I would suggest a reframe: “Someone today decided to try to help you see that you are upset about someone doing to you what you recently did to someone else” — a mirror — that can help you grow, if you choose to use the opportunity.
    7. I am sorry you feel sad.
    8. I feel sad that you think I am gloating, happy, and feeling vindicated. None of those are true assessments of me. I have nothing to gloat, feel vindicated, or happy about in this situation.
    9. Nobody said that the only way for me to feel safe is if you are gone. I feel safe here because I can take care of myself, and Rori is here to help me and any others work through feelings of unsafety experienced on the blog — as she so kindly posted shortly after that “dust-up.”
    10. I do not want you to leave the blog. I feel glad you are here. I find you interesting. I don’t agree with everything you write, but that’s the way the world is, and I am used to it. We can agree to disagree and even be friends!


  198.  #198Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 1:14 am

    Knocksoftly, what I do when something triggers an important memory and pattern like that — I talk to the little girl inside me that experienced that as a child — I comfort her and hold her and tell her that *I* see her and hear her. That she is not invisible. That I will keep her safe.

    That is part of what Rori (and Orna on that last article) mean about giving ourselves the love and nurturing that we need, so we don’t have to be chasing down men to try to get it from them.

    Does that help?

  199.  #199Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 1:15 am

    I have been thinking about what I just wrote about just accepting friendship from Gentle Man if he’s not ready for a serious, committed relationship. And I just decided NO. I am not going to be a crumb taker anymore! I want to meet him, and I will. But I will not just be less than. I will take it a step at a time and not accept treatment any less than the best.

  200.  #200Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 1:26 am


    RE: 197-198 – I have had 21 years of primarily long distance relationships. There is soooo much communication that is missed when you are not face to face. When there is honesty and openness, that is, deep truth, it is possible to have a healthy relationship long distance.

    Nevertheless, there is still a lot of communication lost. There is so much social language that is unspoken, and I was clueless to it! I hadn’t grown normally in my social development.

    That’s why when I dated Ryan in 2009 it was like a first love in so, so many ways. Over and over, I encountered social situations I had never faced, at age 45, and I had no idea how to respond, or what was meant. Just one example out of many, Ryan would say, “Are you tired?”

    It took me MONTHS to figure out that was his polite way of saying he was ready to go. The socially polite thing for me to say would be, “Yes.” Then he could politely bow out and say good night.

    Instead, I would say, “NO! I’m wide awake!” as a means of saying I didn’t want him to go. I was so, so clueless.

    The other major reason I far prefer face-to-face communication is because when people AREN’T always open and honest, I have a better chance of knowing a man’s feelings by reading his body language and expressions and tone of voice.

    Yet a third reason is then it gives opportunity for two way communication. I mean, you can have two way communication by other modes of communication, but not as sensitively as when you are talking with someone and you look at them and sense they want to say something.

    More recently, I’ve been leaning heavily on text messages all around as a means of practicing feeling messages. This slows me down so I think out what I am saying. And, I am finding feeling messages becoming more and more natural, second nature!

    What do you think or feel?

  201.  #201Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 1:40 am

    Knocksoftly, I wish I could hug you right now!

    If we try to be consistent with loving that little girl — as best as we are able — she will come to trust and believe us. It will take some time, but every chance we get, we can nurture and love that little girl and ourselves.

    Tell her it’s okay to feel scared, and that you will hold her and stay with her while those scary feelings flow through her and out.


  202.  #202Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 2:20 am

    Oh, Knocksoftly, I’m so glad! You are never beyond help and change. I’m praying that this step will lead to another and another and another for you — and that you will feel more and more hope.


  203.  #203Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 2:50 am

    Yay for processing triggers to get breakthroughs!!! 🙂

  204.  #204Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 3:19 am

    I read Rori’s amazing comment on the other thread (New Questions post), and applied her wisdom to the conflict I had here with Jacqueline.

    While writing out my reflections on Rori’s points as they apply to this situation, I realized that this time, Jacqueline’s reactions felt like my dad’s (last time, they felt like my mom’s!)

    This is very interesting, because my ex-h is a lot like my mom — and I am a lot like my dad.

    So, according to what Rori said then, I was previously attracting men like my mom (which is true — my ex-h). Now apparently I am attracting men like my dad?

    Hmmm. I feel confused.

    My dad and I get along really well most of the time and he understands me better than my mom does. But once in awhile, something sets him off and . . . well, the result is similar to what happened here tonight.

    Does this mean I would have this type of conflict with WH? (from what Rori said)

    So, here is my statement that started it:

    ‘“I’ve never seen anything like that.” Well, Jacqueline, I have – it is very similar to what you were writing to me awhile ago. I feel surprised and somewhat amused.’

    I wonder if it was read with a heavier tone than it was written with….

    I wrote it because I truly did feel surprised and amused, and because I was trying to provide helpful feedback.

    I was not trying to create a problem.

    So…. how could I have expressed myself differently, in a way that would not create conflict?

    Wow, I feel surprised and amused that you have “never seen anything like that.” When I read what LP wrote, it reminded me so much of what you wrote to me not too long ago.

    Would that have been better?

    But I’m getting that feeling of walking on eggshells…

    Any thoughts?

  205.  #205BarbinOz on October 13, 2010 at 3:28 am

    #134 Ella

    Can’t believe you don’t watch Corrie shock horror!! But understanding all the soapie “heroines/victims” who writes these storylines?? Men who don’t even know who RR is LOL!!

  206.  #206BarbinOz on October 13, 2010 at 3:33 am

    #136 Katarina

    Whilst it feels good to hear about all this adoration/sexual healing/sexual feeling…….for MYSELF I just want ONE genuine, healthy, sooo into ME, quality man, not lots of lovers and ex husbands, good and/or bad……..that could be my age where I would just find this soooo wearysome………

  207.  #207BarbinOz on October 13, 2010 at 3:40 am

    #212 Katarina

    Oh and talking of YOUNGER lovers this guy winked/kissed me a few days ago on the paid dating site…….so I said thanks but no thanks. Anyway he paid to have contact with me last night……….he said there is no prob with him being 33 and me being 52 (even though I am really 57!!!) OMG he is younger than my own children and that is sooo far out of my comfort zone to be way out of my stratosphere!!

  208.  #208Jennifer on October 13, 2010 at 4:03 am

    Re: #194
    Can I get an AYMEN!?!?!?
    I’ve been nursing for 8 years, and THAT is why i don’t work in hospitals.
    When I was doing my training I was yelled at and humiliated and bullied cause I was “too confident”
    Like WTF? I know what I’m doing so, so what?
    Wow, I kinda feel triggered.
    Like one woman literally said to me, during shift change at the nurses station, loud enough for everyone to hear “Don’t tell anyone I’m your preceptor, that would be humiliating for me”
    I was like ………..”dear god, please help me remember it would embarrass my family to come pick me up from the cop shop for smacking this broad”
    Do you know what my GPA is BTCH!!!!!
    I got’s me a 3.79 GPA!!!!!
    Hey…which one of us does the surgeon prefer to deal with? ME!!
    Who’s dressings got called a work of art? MINE!!!
    Who did a more thourough history and found out the patient had a history of major depressive disorder and had lost a son to aids? Who called the doc and got the psych consult? MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEME!!!
    Where were you? Coffee break wasnt’ it?
    ::rolls around on the floor pulling hair out::

    that feels better.
    Thanks Knocksoftly.

  209.  #209Jennifer on October 13, 2010 at 4:05 am

    Be kind to nurses.
    We keep the doctors from accidentally killing you.

  210.  #210Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 6:24 am


    RE: #210 – You said, “So…. how could I have expressed myself differently, in a way that would not create conflict?

    Wow, I feel surprised and amused that you have “never seen anything like that.” When I read what LP wrote, it reminded me so much of what you wrote to me not too long ago.”

    The words surprised and amused strike me as sarcastic in this context. This would feel more authentic to me:

    “Wow, I feel angry and resentful that you have never seen anything like that. When I read what LP wrote, it reminded me so much of what you wrote to me not too long ago, and I felt hurt all over again. What do you think?”

  211.  #211Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 6:29 am


    P.S. I love you! I am just giving you feed back because you asked for it.

  212.  #212Simply Shannon on October 13, 2010 at 7:27 am

    Wow! Brenda #217! I loved reading that comment. I write confused and surprised a lot and I often “hear” my brain say “sarcastic and passive aggressive”. I also loved reading your reframe for Lucy. Thank you!! Wow. I feel impressed and inspired.

  213.  #213AmberS on October 13, 2010 at 7:51 am

    Brenda- #217

    That was brilliant and soft and truly a huge lesson for me.

    Thank you.

  214.  #214tinque on October 13, 2010 at 8:09 am

    “Tinque, How did you carry around those feelings of frustration about being put off or the relationship being stalled or not moving at YOUR natural pace.”

    Yes Kacy I did feel frustrated and scared around this sometimes, BUT I realized after some time and deep work that this was MY insecurity talking. This was ALL my stuff. I thought I needed HIM to validate ME.
    So I dug deeper to take care of this need for myself.
    I also had to understand that he had is own issues to work through, and I couldn’t force it or rush it for him.
    I couldn’t impose my timetable onto him.
    Once I was able to make peace with all this, I must have created a sense of safety for him, for shortly after, he did open up and tell me how he felt. He’s not by nature a vocal man, BUT he is VERY demonstrative. I had to learn to hear the words without them being voiced, in the way he looks at me, touches me, treats me.
    This was as much of a growing experience for him as for me I would imagine.

  215.  #215tinque on October 13, 2010 at 8:18 am

    Kacy – How about this?

    It feels GREAT dating at our age. I think it’s a wonderful time because we know ourselves better now than ever.
    Yes there are risks to dating, but life is a risk, so I think the risk is worth having the chance for the kind of love we want.
    I want to take this risk with you because I feel good with you. I love feeling close to you. I love being affectionate with you. It makes me feel….(fill in how you feel)
    Taking things slowly feels good, but only if we’re both on the same page in wanting a meaningful relationship. What do you think?

  216.  #216Simply Shannon on October 13, 2010 at 8:18 am

    Tinque, it is not without irony (God is truly funny) that I was just thinking about this type of man last night. My father is a man of few words, and I never really felt loved by him (tolerated and proud of my accomplishments maybe but not loved). I’ve spent nearly my entire life searching for a man who is the complete opposite of my father. One who was demonstrative with his love, who said “I love you” and who hugged me often. I got so caught up in the “show” that I didn’t pay attention to how I felt in his presence.

    I’m still working out in my brain if this is something I would feel brave enough to share with my dad. I project onto him that he would feel surprised and sad that I spent most of my childhood feeling unloved. There are times even today when he doesn’t say “I love you” (which he does MUCH more often than he did when I was little) or hug me, and the little girl inside of me pipes up and says “he never really loved us”. I battle with that nasty voice a lot and loving her in the way she wants to feel loved.

    I know he loved/loves me. He would do absolutely anything for me but the words and “show” don’t come easily to him.

    How would you say that to K? To tell him what you want? I know a part of me wants to work this out for insecurity myself but isn’t it also his responsibility to “us” to give me what I want too?

  217.  #217Senior Lady Vibe on October 13, 2010 at 8:50 am

    I’m still scouting and learning from the CL ads. Here’s an interesting essay piece ad I saw this morning:

    A User’s Manual for Craigslist M4W Personal Ads

    It was amusing…and maybe kinda true.


  218.  #218tinque on October 13, 2010 at 8:50 am

    Shannon – Trying to talk to your dad may not have the outcome you seek. I think many men of our parent’s generation were raised to be this way. My dad is much the same. He never says he loves me, never, BUT when I look in his eyes, oh my, the love is just pouring out. He glows when he sees me, and now he kisses me on the mouth when we greet or say goodbye. It’s sweet.
    As for K, once I learned to hear the I love yous through his actions, I felt SO much better. I now find when I hear others say it all the time, it feels less meaningful, as in almost rote like.
    K tells me he loves me every time he looks at me (the same glow as my dad), every time he hugs me close and cradles my head against his heart (he’s way tall and I’m way short), every time he keeps his hand on my leg while we sit on the couch doing our respective things, every time he makes love to me and wraps me as in almost envelops me inside himself after. And more.
    I have never been very vocal either, but I now can say I love you to him when I feel inspired to, which isn’t often though it’s more often than he, but he will always look SO pleased and say it back, not because I said it but because I reminded him of how he feels, and he too feels inspired.
    When he says it spontaneously which is rare, it carries SO much more meaning because I know it’s heartfelt.
    I don’t feel a lack at all anymore.

  219.  #219sia on October 13, 2010 at 8:50 am

    Hi Tinque,
    would you please help? You said on another threat that you were underweight. How did you manage to gain weight?
    it is really difficult for me to remember to eat something extra. After normal meal when I don’ t feel hungry I forget to eat high caloric treats which I buy on purpose and have them in the fridge..
    I dont know how Renee Zellweger did it, eating dozens of doughnuts for Bridget Jones..
    thank you

  220.  #220Renee on October 13, 2010 at 9:01 am

    Looks like I missed quite a bit on the board last night…now I feel guilty for getting into a dust up myself a few weeks ago because it feels so yucky to read when others get into them. I hope all will be healed…

    I’m not sure what I’m going to do w/Blondie at this point…

    I went over to his house last night to spend some time with him before he left on his business trip. I was still feeling a little irritable, but a little better, and I wanted to see him before he left for 5 days.

    Shortly after I got there (he was kind of running around packing for his trip) he sat down and asked me where we were…were we just dating? Did it feel like we were mutually exclusive? What did I think? I told him I hadn’t really anticipated having this talk tonight, but I felt things were going well and asked him what he wanted. He said he felt like, to take the “pressure” off him, that he didn’t think he wanted to be mutually exclusive right now, but that obviously I had a vote in the matter.

    Well, I didn’t care for this…I wasn’t sure I was ready to be exclusive either, but I wanted him to want that again and it felt bad to hear him say it would feel like “pressure” to be exclusive with me. I told him that I had been considering going to the game this weekend with someone else, but that I hadn’t been sure whether I wanted to…that I felt like we were moving back towards becoming exclusive, but that if that wasn’t something he saw as a step he wanted, then maybe I needed to reassess things. He said well of course we would reassess things as we went along as you do in any relationship, but that right now, that’s what felt right to him. He said, as he has many times, that he didn’t really have much inclination or time to date anyone else (the time thing is accurate…I don’t know, of course, about his inclinations). I was just kind of taking it all in and wasn’t really sure what to say, when he got up to go into his closet to resume packing. Well, that felt like he didn’t care what I had to say, so I mumbled somthing about apparently this conversation is unimportant to you and while he was out of the room, I got up to leave.

    I went into the living room to get my purse and was standing there by the door with my keys in my hand, trying to decide what I wanted to do, when he came out and found me. He asked me if I was leaving and I said I was thinking about it. I said it felt like he just walked off in the middle of our conversation, so I was walking off too. I said it felt like rejection to hear him say that he wanted me to see other men, and, of course, he said he was sorry I felt that way but that’s not what it was and that he cared about me. He said he was talking to me from the closet and he wasn’t walking off from the conversation and was surprised to find he was talking to himself.

    We talked for a while about this and he said he just figured that I was going to meet someone else who was more what I wanted. That he was, perhaps, 80% of what I wanted, but that someone of my caliber could find someone better than him — someone who’s travel schedule wasn’t a pain and who made more money. I told him that I had dated around enough to know when I had found someone who was really special and while it was too soon to know if he was “the one” for me, I cared about him more than anyone I had known in a very long time.

    Then he started saying that he wasn’t sure if he’d ever be able to get married again. I told him this was an about face from what he’d told me he wanted, which was to find one special person to settle down with. He then asked me if it would hurt my feelings if we continued to date for 8,10,12 months and I still hadn’t met his daughters. I said that yes, it probably would at that point. He said, “what about 6 months or so…long enough to know whether what we have is marriage material? Whether we really have a future together?” I told him 6 months didn’t sound unreasonable to me and that I didn’t expect to meet his kids after 2 or 3 months…that I understood he was protective of them and wouldn’t want to introduce someone to them unless he felt pretty sure there was a future there. I also told him that all these things he was bringing up sounded like excuses to me and that if he didn’t want to keep seeing me, he should just say so. I said I knew tonight wasn’t a great night, but that usually, when we were together, we had a wonderful time, or at least that was my perspective, and I thought he felt the same way, but that if that wasn’t true for him, then I definitely needed to leave.

    Then things got really weird…he started talking about how he didn’t actually work for just his primary company, that he actually did work for another entity, which he eventually identified as the government. He said this was something even his parents didn’t know and he couldn’t tell me much about it, but that he had been recruited back in high school (at an elite boarding school for boys) and that this was a primary concern of his in bringing someone into his life. He wouldn’t tell me much more, but suffice it to say, this conversation felt surreal to me…was this man insane or could he be telling me the truth? I didn’t know what to believe…the only time I’ve ever encountered someone who made claims like this, they were totally full of it and were just trying to impress me to get into my pants. This sounded like another excuse to me and I still don’t know whether he was making it up or not…typically, he seems to be honest almost to a fault, so I guess I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but it’s really hard to swallow.

    This went on a little while (with him packing while he’s talking), when he finally stopped, came in and laid down on the bed and said he guessed that the truth was he was just spooked, and I told him that sounded like an honest answer and that I could understand that. I told him it was normal to get scared and that I was scared too. He said something about would I really be willing to put up with someone who might be gone several weeks at a time, and I told him I’d been on my own for 40+ years, so a few weeks was nothing to me. He said that really put a new perspective on things when I put it that way. I told him I hadn’t just been making it up when I told him that I was actually glad he was gone some…that I missed him, of course, when he was gone, but that I really needed that time to focus on me, my work and my friendships and that if I were actually dating someone who was local and available 24/7, I’d probably feel smothered. This seemed to appease him, and I was glad he finally admitted what was really going on, but this whole thing just felt weird to me.

    I don’t remember exactly what happened next, but things ended up getting pretty heated physically (we hadn’t made love since the ‘breakup’). It became obvious that’s what was going to happen, though, and he asked me why I wanted to do this and I said, “I don’t know”…he asked me if I was sure this was what I wanted and I said, “Yes”, so we did and it was nice. I think I just felt the need to be really close to him, and I almost had the sensation that this may be the last time I saw him, and I wanted to make it count or make it memorable or something.
    Afterwards, we lay there briefly and cuddled and I said, “don’t be spooked. I’m never going to pressure you into something you don’t want,” to which he responded with a kiss on the forehead. He got up to lock the doors and said he assumed I was staying the night and I agreed, and we fell asleep.

    I didn’t stay asleep long, however…I stirred after about 30 mins and as tired as I was and as much as I love laying there next to him, I had this overwhelming urge to run and hide…I felt like I had handled everything all wrong and I think part of me wanted him to wonder about me when he woke up alone and I was also a little afraid that, given my current emotional state, I would get all clingy and needy when he left this morning, so I got dressed and left while he lay there sleeping.

    So…that was last night and I have yet to hear from him this morning…he was leaving early this morning and has a 6 hr drive ahead of him, so I know he has time to talk, but he hasn’t called yet.

    On the positive side, my “blahness” and irritiability from yesterday has finally eased, so my baseline mood has finally gotten back to being positive, despite my concern about losing Blondie.

    So now…I don’t know what to do. Part of me feels like telling him that if a man isn’t sure he wants to be with me, then I don’t want him, but that seems a little harsh given that it is still early and neither one of us could possibly “know” for sure whether we each others’ “the one”. Part of me wants to tell him that I feel like I handled last night badly and that if what he wants is for us to date others for now, I’m ok with that, but that almost feels like crumb-taking. He’ll contact me today at some point, and I feel like this next interaction is critical…like if I handle it well, we may still have a chance, but if I don’t, things may very well be over for us.

    I know I need to be open to dating others right now and have accepted a date for the game Saturday, but I don’t seem to have the energy to jump fully back onto the RR “circular dating” roller coaster that I was on before, where I was going out w/2 or 3 new men a week and juggling 6-10 others via email/txt/phone. I feel like I’ve come closer w/Blondie to finding what I want than I have w/anyone else in eons and I guess I don’t want to mess with anyone who doesn’t treat me as well as he does (that may sound contradictory given what I’ve just written, but when we’re together, he’s more caring, giving and attentive than anyone I’ve dated in 20 yrs)

    Update: He just called to talk and ask me why I left and I told him that I had felt really vulnerable and that I didn’t feel like I had handled things well. We kind of reviewed several points of last night’s coversation and I told him the last thing I wanted him to feel is pressure, that I just enjoyed being with him and that I wanted us to continue to enjoy each other’s company and get to know each other. I said it had weirded me out when he said he didn’t know if he’d ever be able to marry again and that when he laid down on the bed and said he was spooked, that that seemed like it was the real truth of the matter and he agreed. He said he still wanted to see me and that we should just take things as they come and reassess as they develop. He also swore me to secrecy about his “government work” (could it really be legit?).

    So…I guess I really have no choice at this point but to just put him on the back burner and move forward on my own, but it hurts that he’s waffling like this. The main thing I want to accomplish now is to get him back into pursuit mode and I guess I’m going to have to just stop being so available. This is going to be hard because he’s going to be gone until Sunday night as it is and I’ll miss him and will want to see him.

  221.  #221Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 9:22 am

    Shannon and Amber,

    RE: #219-220 – Thank you! I appreciate the kudos! This is really starting to sink in, and it feels so good to be equipped with the communication skills I have longed for all my life!

    Amber, it is SO good to see you back!

    I wish some of the other missing Sirens would return!

  222.  #222Simply Shannon on October 13, 2010 at 9:24 am

    Renee! I think you handled all of that brilliantly! BRAVA!!! Rori would probably advice that when a man tells me he doesn’t want to marry or doesn’t have time for a relationship that I should believe him. Just take him at his word. It does feel painful and sad but not to make excuses or pressure him to change his mind. And your last paragraph… yes time to circular date. Not just for the “dates” but to learn about yourself. BRAVA Renee!

  223.  #223Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 9:34 am


    RE: #223 – Oh, I so relate to you about feeling unloved by your father! I felt unloved in my childhood, too, and I started to find healing when I STARTED learning how to use feeling messages in 1990.

    It is SO worth it to discuss your feelings with your Dad! The more I came out with all the rejection and hurt I felt over his outbursts of anger (in my case), the more we discussed it and got on the same page. By the end of his life, my Dad and I had become so close, trusting, and loving!! I cherish that love to reflect on now that my Dad is gone, sadly.

    How about this:

    Dad, I love you so much, and I know in my head that you love me, too. I feel hesitant to bring this up, because the last thing I want to do is hurt you. Yet, I have realized I still carry wounds from childhood, and I wonder if you would be willing to help me work through some healing? What do you think?

    Then, assuming he’s open, you could continue:

    In childhood, I didn’t feel very loved by you. I guess I needed to hear the words, “I love you” often. Even tho I know in my head you had a hard time voicing your feelings, my heart still has pockets of pain, and there are parts of it that even still question your love for me. What do you think?

  224.  #224Kacy on October 13, 2010 at 9:35 am

    Good Morning Ladies, I feel upset that there was such an intense discussion between two ladies that are very likely, both, warm, loving and caring women. Reading the interchange made my stomach hurt and my heart ache for both. I wonder if those kinds of exchanges would be better worked out in private via email. What do I know, I’m new here. I just know that I was more upset over this exchange than I was over reading any of the original dialog. (In fact I wasn’t even aware of the dialog until it was brought to my attention through the discussion last night. I would feel better if I hadn’t been made aware of this whole situation. I feel sad about it. I feel disturbed by it. I feel concerned that this site will be used to hash out confrontations.) I feel that this site has a higher purpose! I don’t feel that anyone on this site is here to purposely hurt and be disrespectful to any other siren. If they are purposely hurtful…they should be ignored or addressed in private. Isn’t it possible that in the written word there is always so much possibility for misunderstanding because we can’t see expressions or hear nuances in people’s voices? Isn’t it possible that both ladies have valid points and neither intended to be hurtful in any of the previous dialog?

  225.  #225tinque on October 13, 2010 at 9:35 am

    sia – When I was younger I used to force feed which NEVER felt good. It hurt. I felt bloated. At the time protein shakes would bother my intestines. I had major intestinal issues back then, stress and emotionally related. So that didn’t really work, and I really struggled with the underweightness.
    It was age that did it for me. Instead of gaining the fifteen pounds almost all women complain of when they get in their forties, I gained five. It was more that my weight stabilized. I don’t lose or gain weight readily though illness and stress will still make me lose weight easily, but now it comes back, re-stabilizes rather quickly.
    Also recently I started doing weights again which gained me maybe another three to five pounds. I think I finally hit 100 lbs. YAY!!!
    I found pea protein to be REALLY easy to digest, and it doesn’t sit heavily in my belly. I mix it with almond milk and frozen pineapple, raspberries, blueberries, and a banana. This helps get in extra nutritious calories without feeling bloated.
    I can eat ice cream again, so I eat it fairly regularly.
    I don’t really pay attention anymore to what I eat. Since i don’t get hungry ever, I instead listen to my body. It tells me when it needs food. I eat what I want when I want it, but it wants healthy foods.
    I also don’t fill up on rabbit food (veggies) as much as they are good for the body, but for skinny ones, they take up too much room. Also because I don’t have a colon anymore, I don’t digest then well. I eat them in small amounts. Protein is my emphasis and what I crave.
    I also would recommend good quality grains, brown rice, quinoa, (oatmeal is good but very heavy). If you’re not gluten intolerant, go ahead and eat pasta, regular or whole grain, couscous is good, barley.
    And never ever forget your chocolate, a must!!! Good quality dark chocolate truffles. YUM.

  226.  #226Simply Shannon on October 13, 2010 at 9:36 am

    Tinque, it feels interesting to me that I feel defensive reading your post. I feel unheard. I want to hear “I love you” and to get hugs and affection. Those things don’t feel rote to me when I do them to others. I mean it every time I say/do it. In fact I say I love you more now than I ever have because I think it’s a crock of shit that we hide this fact from every human being we contact. We project that they should just know by the shine in our eye.

    Oh ok wow. Yeah I feel angry. Obviously this is not directed at you Tinque. I love you, and I love your voice on this blog. That is not rote to me. I mean it. I would miss your voice if you left.

    I believe I am only scratching the surface of this anger. Gonna stop writing this particular post because I don’t want anything I write to look like it’s directed at Tinque. It’s not at all. Thank you Tinque for scratching the surface with this.

    Damn I want to cry.

  227.  #227Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 9:41 am


    RE: #225 – You said, “When he says it spontaneously which is rare, it carries SO much more meaning because I know it’s heartfelt.”

    In some ways, I have the opposite issue with Kenny. I really appreciate it that he says “I love you” all the time. But sometimes I think it does lose its meaning. He ends every paragragh in a letter with “I love you”, and he says it repeatedly on the phone. I feel his love, too, in the way he looks at me; the things he does for me; the way he acts towards me. I know that I know that he is in love with me.

    I have never addressed it with him that sometimes the words feel watered down, because I know he is doing his best to be a loving, open man. Sometimes I feel almost irritated, tho, when he says, “I love you.”
    I say, “I love you” back.
    Then he says, “I reallllly love you!”
    And he expects me to say, “I realllllly love you” back. It doesn’t feel genuine or meaningful to me at all when I am EXPECTED to repeat it just the way he does.

    Do you (or anyone) have any suggestions how I can express that to him without hurting his feelings?

  228.  #228tinque on October 13, 2010 at 9:44 am

    I understand Shannon. So did I, but I found for me, when I was able to let this go, not only did I feel better, I started to get the words (from K not my dad) and it opened my eyes to all the love that was there, maybe not along or maybe it was, but I could SEE it, FEEL it. Letting go opened my own heart.
    I’m sure when you say I love you, you mean it each and every time. I have seen a lot of not this though. Which is why I brought it up at all. From my observation in my world, you would be a rarity. Cherish this in yourself.
    I feel badly you feel so triggered, yet there is great healing in that.
    I send you big cyber hugs.

  229.  #229Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 9:45 am


    RE: #226 – I have heard from more than one source that anorexics are encouraged to drink at least one milkshake a day to gain weight.

    And, as an overeater, I can tell you my top favorite dessert is cheesecake…do you like that? it is about 500 calories a slice! Also, fried food is calorie laden. The “bloomin onion” at Outback Steakhouse is 3000 calories! Whew!

  230.  #230Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 9:50 am


    For me the pain of feeling unloved was so intense that I had to address it. My Dad’s repeated outbursts of anger throughout my childhood is a huge part of the emotional damage I have been healing from all my adult life. so I guess my situation is a little different than Shannon’s.

    Nevertheless, when I saw the outpouring of love from my Dad after he became aware of my feelings, it was so worth it!! I saw a soft, sensitive side of him that took my breath away! It has been so healing to me to couple that with all my pain from childhood, to let it sink in that my Dad loved me very much!

    Once my Dad asked me why my one brother was so hostile towards him. He said, “I’m his father, for goodness sake!”

    I said, “Dad, he was the oldest, and you beat him when he was little over very trite things!”

    He said, “I did??? I don’t remember that!”

    I said, “Yes, you beat me with your belt, too, just not nearly as often. It really hurt me, because I didn’t need that kind of strictness. I was eager to please. So was (my brother).”

    He said, “Wow, I don’t remember that at all. I’ll have to talk to him. I want him to know I love him, too.”

    After he passed away, my stepmother found a beautiful letter full of love and healing that my Dad had written to my brother, and for whatever reason, never mailed. What a beautiful gift!

  231.  #231Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 9:54 am


    RE: #233 – You said, “In fact I say I love you more now than I ever have because I think it’s a crock of shit that we hide this fact from every human being we contact.”

    Wow, I love this! I say I love you a lot more, too!! That’s what prompted me to text “I love you” to my (other) brother out of the blue a couple weeks ago! I say I love you to my Mom every time we hang up the phone (we talk once or twice daily), and usually throughout the conversation.

    I have said, “I love you” to friends before, and they act kinda taken aback, and I can tell they are not used to hearing that. But then after a few times, sometimes they say I love you back. We all need love. And I have so much love to give!

  232.  #232Denise on October 13, 2010 at 9:55 am

    Renee, sounds like you did alright by me! BTW, I was engaged to an ex-gov’t man. I knew more than I should, after he retired very rich. From the sound of it, it seems true, since he is so truthful about every thing. Why would he make it up at this point? How do you feel doubting him? He is trying to be super careful about his life, and letting you in, little by little. Take it slow! See how you feel. Keep the pace you want- including on the CD- if it is too much, slow down, but keep yourself happy and busy.

  233.  #233Kacy on October 13, 2010 at 9:55 am

    Tinque, Thank you so much for your insight and your helpful words. I like that your feeling message was shorter and more to the point than mine. I did want to allude to the fact that I was adding some thoughts to what he had asked me originally on the phone last week. It made me feel more secure about bringing the subject up with him.

    Brenda: Did you get my email?
    Orna: Thank you for your comments on “Obsessing”. 🙂

  234.  #234Katarina Phang on October 13, 2010 at 9:56 am

    Barb, I do too, EVENTUALLY when one man steps up to the plate and offers me the ring.

    Remember, this is CD stage. That’s what we do…have fun, build on our goddess radiance and NOT FOCUS on any one man.

    I’m all for it and it works wonderfully for me and I’m sure for many women too one way or another.

  235.  #235Katarina Phang on October 13, 2010 at 9:59 am

    BTW, right now I’m not really sure who I’m going to choose even if one man of the 2 strong contenders even when one of them is ready for the commitment.

    I need time to explore all possibilities. I don’t want to make a rushed decision. It feels good when you get the power back instead of waiting around and sulking….

  236.  #236sia on October 13, 2010 at 10:03 am

    thank you tinque! I am going to print this and follow this.

  237.  #237sia on October 13, 2010 at 10:05 am

    thank you brenda! I can do milkshakes. I drink full fat milk every day, at least a litre. Milk is something which when I run out of, I am able to go buy it at night.
    i drink full fat not for weight, but for taste. i read recently that one can become lactose intolerant at any age, and I pray this doesnt happen to me!

  238.  #238Denise on October 13, 2010 at 10:08 am

    Alonka- Thanks for sharing.

    It IS an issue on his side. I think it is survivor’s guilt from when his ex-fiance died two years ago. He is afraid of loosing someone he loves, and he is afraid the intimacy will intensify his need for me, and then there is the responsibility factor, he mentions.

    He was so sexual with me at the beginning and I put the brakes on. He said that was my mistake, as it would not be a big deal then; and that he did not expect to fall in love with me a few months later. Now we are at ten months, and I do not want to make rash mistakes. He does not tell me that he loves me ever, but he shows it when we are together. The whole proposal idea is making me think.

    I am posting this on Half-truths, as I am having typing problems.

  239.  #239sia on October 13, 2010 at 10:10 am

    i feel a bit weird reading about ‘crock of shit hiding the love’.
    I don’t use the words either. In the five languages of love test, I had 27% acts of service, 1.2% words. I do not feel too big appreciation for words, i love and feel secure and loved when people keep their word to me and are happy to help me. I don’t require more.
    I don’t want to feel like my preferred language is less than yours, what do you think?

  240.  #240Simply Shannon on October 13, 2010 at 10:23 am

    Sia, I completely get that. I’m sorry. I don’t want to dismiss how others feel. I guess I feel curious how we each know that the other feels loved. I don’t feel loved without the words and the affection. On the 5 love languages, I am 1. physical and 2. words. I suppose this is all about understanding the other person’s love language and projecting that back to them.

    And there’s another little nugget of wisdom. Me saying “I love you” to others may not be what they want or even have the desire to hear.

    Tinque, thank you. I’m still processing this. I don’t really want to let this go though. Maybe I’m not ready or maybe I have the belief that I can have a man tell me he loves me and mean it. I really want to believe my dad loves me. I feel awful that I can’t “see” it because he “withholds” the words. I feel really stupid and exposed right about now. What if my dad doesn’t really love me? What would that mean to me? Am I okay without knowing one way or the other? Right now I don’t feel okay. 🙁

    Ok. Too much mind masturbation today. Taking a break.

  241.  #241Nikita on October 13, 2010 at 10:25 am

    HI! I don’t value words as much either….I am visual…I like to see….acts of devotion….. and acts of love….i don’t feel like taking this love language test but I do feel VERY curious about it….but I am certain that I am seeing/feeling(kinesthetic).

  242.  #242Renee on October 13, 2010 at 10:33 am

    Denise and Shannon — Thanks for your input.

    Shannon — I would believe the part about the marriage thing, but when I asked him to clarify, he said it wasn’t that he never wanted to get married again, he said that he wasn’t sure he could get married again. Besides, that contradicted what he had said earlier in the evening when he said he wanted to move towards exclusivity and that the natural progression (he felt) was to become exclusive, fall in love, get engaged and get married and that that’s what he wanted too, he just didn’t feel right with being exclusive right now. He also told me, at the beginning of our relationship, that while he wasn’t actively looking for a wife, that he was in a good place in his life to meet that person if that’s what fate had in store for him. So this “not being able to get married again” thing was a complete turn-around and sounded like just an excuse to push me away at the moment.

    Denise — you asked how it feels to doubt him, and it doesn’t feel good. I’m leaning towards believing him about the government work since he made it a point to bring it up this morning, but last night, it flashed through my mind that this was just an elaborate lie designed to push me away as well and that felt awful — like why was I even there if he was so busy coming up with excuses as to why things wouldn’t work out? At least when he said he was spooked, that sounded honest to me, but I just can’t help but feeling that if he really cared about me the way he should, he wouldn’t be feeling those feelings of fear. That’s what gives me the biggest pause of all — that he doesn’t care enough to dismiss his fear out of hand.

  243.  #243Simply Shannon on October 13, 2010 at 10:39 am

    One last post and then I’m dropping off. Since everyone seems to be watching the miners (I’m getting updates on the internet – I will not watch – deep fear of being buried alive). Here’s an interesting article about what is happening with the women on the ground waiting for their men. Wives and mistresses… Yikes!


  244.  #244Siena on October 13, 2010 at 10:43 am

    Renee, you are handling this whole thing beautifully!

    I wanted to say thank you for sharing also, because – this feels weird – but Blondie & my #1CD could be the same person. They are soooo similar!

    I feel I have been given a gift watching your convo with Blondie, bc although our “issues” were the same (exactly the same!) as what you write about here, #1CD and I never had the “I’m spooked” convo. It feels so cathartic reading it here – as if I’m hearing it got myself. Very cathartic!! Thank you!

  245.  #245jacqueline on October 13, 2010 at 10:45 am

    Hiya everyone – I said I was thinking goodbye would be a good thing to say, not because Loneplum said anything to me. I don’t even know who that person who’s been here two weeks but talks about something two month’s ago that she’s reacting to is.

    I think it’s time because I don’t agree with Rori – I am not attracted to that or to her. She makes me feel gross and put down, and I’ve never even spoken to her; other than to ask a question about could I use a comment she made. I don’t date nor talk to men who make me feel gross or put down. I have real issues with men hiding their identities and or lying. Which this person feels to be doing.

    And I am on here to help other women and myself grow and change – and if someone can’t say to my face something that they can snark on months later? and then say well she was my mother, now she’s my daddy – paraphrasing Lucy here – I don’t feel good, I feel used. I’m not your mother, daddy or schoolteacher.

    I am a real breathing woman who has perhaps become softer and more expressive, but nonetheless would find loneplum to be disgusting.

    And as for emailing, I don’t know her, never spoke to her. She’s no one I want to know, either.

    I put a lot of time and energy into this discussion – and there are some fabulous women here that can be counted on and put even more time and energy in.

    But that time and energy is not getting me the return I want. Those who are my friends are already my friends. Staying just to say I disagree might serve everyone else very well as a trigger – but it’s way to dismissive of my life for me to do that.

    My goal is to take what I’ve learned, move on and free up enormous amounts of energy.

    And to know I can come back to visit anytime. I am in no way affected by the crapfest of comments regarding what someone I’ve never spoken to said to me, so I don’t have a defensive need to post to show I can.

    I feel good about leaving you all to grow and learn.

    And, Knocksoftly – wow, it’s good to know you’re here, and you’ll be okay!!

    And that you’ll ALL be just fine.


  246.  #246AmberS on October 13, 2010 at 10:50 am


    My dad just spent a week with me. It was the most intense week of my life (to date).

    Before he got here I processed every hurt I could find lingering in my mind and heart around my relationship with him.

    The biggest part for me was deciding to look at him as a human being instead of the man that failed me as a father.

    When I did this I saw that I had rejected his love because it didn’t look the way I wanted it to.

    He is human, and has his own hurts. He acts from those hurts. But he does love me, of that I am absolutely certain. And that feels good.

    But what feels even better is knowing that I love and approve of me. And even if he didn’t, I would be fine.

  247.  #247Siena on October 13, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Had a fun – and very much out of my comfort zone date – with Mover Man last night.

    Today I’m feeling a little sad. Mover man is a sweetheart, and I feel really good with him! But my heart’s not really there, and when I consider what my life would be like with him, I feel uninspired. It would be a nice life – he’s got a good job, great house, great fam… But I just don’t get “the one” feeling with him. Sigh. It’s still early I know, and I will continue to date him as long as I feel good with him.

    But I’m starting to wonder if my Happily Ever After actually exists, or if I should go for the “nice” life instead. He’s everything I said I wanted, but I just don’t feel it deeply for him.

    Maybe I need a man fast. Maybe I’ve been dating too much in the past year and I’ve become jaded of something. Sigh. I dunno 🙁

  248.  #248Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 11:22 am


    RE: #240 – Don’t know why, but, no, I didn’t get your email. I checked in my spam folder too. Hmmm.

  249.  #249Denise on October 13, 2010 at 11:27 am

    Alonka, I do not think it is harsh at all, (no need to apologize!); in fact I am a little confused by what you wrote. You don’t get that it is his fault? Can you explain that differently? Much appreciated!

    From what I hear, he is not hiding anything. We have been through that discussion and I think I covered all the possible bases of questions why he is stopping the intimacy from going forward, ( ie. religion, waiting for marriage, depression, gay, impotence, etc) and his answers, were thorough and non-combative. We have had that discussion a few times, and everytime he brings up he is tired of it, but I protest, that I am trying to understand.

    As far as your comments and choices:

    “And do I want to know? If I do, I’d tell him how I feel, i.e. propose perhaps (!) If I don’t – I’d wait:
    a) indefinitely,
    b) put a date for myself I’m willing to wait until,
    c) may start losing interest – this is a tough one, but I believe that love must progress naturally and it doesn’t forgive limitation.”

    Yes, I do want to know, because it is stumbling block to going forward, and everything must evolve. I told him lovingly, that “I felt there was a big white elephant in the room and we cannot ignore it and shove it under the carpet.” He laughed and said “it is more like a two ton hairy gorrilla.” But we have to deal with it at some point ‘cuz it’s not going away!

    Regarding choices, I feel B may be the answer, to put a time frame on it. We discussed this last month. I said that maybe I would consider that, and I am processing whether to give him a year.
    That will bring us to our anniversary on New Years. I am unsure about that at this point. I am not the type to give an ultimatum. So far, every one of my other needs are being meet- he is a super guy, and probably the best in my life, definitely in more than ten years, since being engaged.

    He has said he understands if I want to date since there is a frustration level he senses, or leave him entirely, as he has repeated many times, that he will not break up with me, as I am too important in his life and he would be very sad. So I wait for the rubber band.

    About choice C- it has not happened that I am loosing interest, because he always seems to shine. My time with him is special. I imagine a life with him would be supremely satisfying, and perhaps even glorious in the sunset of older years. Wow, sounds profound, no? Tehehehe. For me, everyone has limitations somehow, as we are all far from perfect, and it is up to us to accept the person as they are. That took me many years to learn, but as I age, my wisdom feels right on for me.

  250.  #250Renee on October 13, 2010 at 11:28 am

    Siena — I’m glad my interactions w/Blondie are helping someone…the whole thing has me rather confused, frankly, but it reminds me a little of a situation I had years ago with a guy who lived out of town (he was in grad school at the time). He had no plans of getting involved in a “relationship” at that time, but after a few fits and starts, that’s exactly what we had. I ended up breaking up with him 2 years later because althouh our friendship was wonderful, we weren’t very sexually compatible and never had been and I just couldn’t see sentencing myself to a life of that.

    Anyway — I’m trying to remember what I did then to reel him in (from 5 hrs away, no less) and I think the truth is that I just stayed busy leading my life (I was young and still was out partying 2-3 nights a week) and just had this confidence for some reason that I just “knew” he’d come around…I don’t know where that confidence came from (or where it went to, lol), but I want to find it again because I think that’s key — to feel confidence in myself and our relationship and stay leaned back and try to cd as much as possible.

    I vaguely remember reading about what happened with your #1 cd, but I don’t remember the details…it seems to me like he ended up running away and he flamed out? That doesn’t bode well for Blondie and I, hmmm…am I doing any of the same things/different things than you were?

  251.  #251Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 11:28 am


    RE: #244 – Other good alternatives to milk, if you’re interested, are coconut milk and banana milk! Coconut milk is very good for you- I highly recommend any books from Jordan Rubin, such as, “Physician Heal Thyself”. You see his before and after pictures on the cover, from his recovery from Krohn’s disease, and it is amazing! He went from skin and bones to a well fleshed out man!

    Banana milk is something I learned from “Living Health”, by Harvey and Marilyn Diamond. You simply put bananas in a blender with water, and voila, banana milk! It’s delicious and contains ideal nutrition for the human body! They said you could literally live on bananas and be vibrantly healthy! The way I like them is peeled, frozen in ziplock bags, and blended with water (or milk or coconut milk or almond milk). It is very yummy!

  252.  #252Denise on October 13, 2010 at 11:29 am

    Brenda, you are back! I wrote some things to you this am, on another post, but I switched over here, not sure if you read on new questions. Was having issues writing on it, and time for ease! Kudos on your story.

  253.  #253Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 11:38 am


    RE: #247 – Your relationship with your father is SO important. You will NOT regret it if you bring your childhood (and present) hurts out in the open!! I am so glad I did!

  254.  #254Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 11:45 am


    Thanks! I’ll check them out.

  255.  #255tinque on October 13, 2010 at 11:54 am

    Sia – More on diet. Milk is hard on anyone’s system, and yes you can and most likely will develop an intolerance to it. Plus milkshakes have A LOT of sugar which is okay in moderation but not in large quantities.
    Brenda is right about coconut milk. Full fat yogurt is another good alternative and actually easier to digest then the low fat or fat free versions.
    Please don’t do the fried food thing. Really, really unhealthy. Add extra olive oil to your foods instead. Butter is great too, and a little known fact about it is it soothes the nervous system. If your cholesterol is okay, do butter.
    Dark meat chicken is also really good. I had to develop a taste for it. try it on the grill if you think you don’t like it.
    Nuts are awesome. I love them roasted and salted (I need the salt because of my missing colon) but they are healthier raw. Raw soaked almonds overnight are yummy and the healthiest. Cashews are good too as are walnuts (the highest in omega 3s).
    That’s all I can think of right now.

  256.  #256Kacy on October 13, 2010 at 11:55 am

    Hi Brenda, I just sent you another email. Let me know if you got it. If there’s a glitch I’ll give you my business email to shoot a message to me.

  257.  #257tinque on October 13, 2010 at 11:56 am

    Brenda – I’m a little envious you were able to open a discussion with your dad. It didn’t work with mine, but I’m quite okay with it as I detailed above.
    I say yay for you and your dad.

  258.  #258Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 12:07 pm


    Oooh, I’m sorry your talk with your Dad didn’t work. 🙁 It took a lot of guts to confront him, at first, because I literally trembled when he yelled at me, which was often. Right in the middle of his yelling, I stated, “I don’t feel very loved right now.”


    “I don’t feel very loved right now.”

    Suddenly his whole mood shifted as he said, “Well, I DO love you.” We talked it out and had many many discussions over the years following that first time in 1990.

    He lived in Upstate NY, so I only saw him 2-3 times a year. Every time we’d get together, I’d confront him, because I was unwilling to live with the emotional abuse and control anymore. His wife would say, “Now, Brendy, let’s all get along. You only get to see your father once in a while.” But I just ignored her and kept right on confronting him.

    Inotherwords, I’m not saying it was all rosy after our first discussion or two. The man was emotionally damaged, and he was often like dealing with a porcupine. But the more we got it out in the open, the more we saw our relationship through each other’s eyes.

    By the end of his life 6 years ago, he was saying softly, “I love you, Brenda. I love you, Rose (to his wife)” every few sentences. I cry when I think of how sweet and gentle he became!

    Sometimes it’s gotta get worse before it gets better! Kinda like Rori says…when you speak feeling messages, you are not responsible for how the other person reacts. You have simply stated your feelings. Often feeling messages are not well received. But I firmly believe that they lead to healthy, healed relationships.

  259.  #259tinque on October 13, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    Sometimes more volatile people eventually can be open to speaking their feelings, but for the most part someone like my dad (who really is too old to change) who has never been able to voice his feelings, loving or otherwise, just can’t seem to get there.
    It wasn’t a “bad” interaction, just uncomfortable and I felt disappointed.
    At least with K, though he’s still not so vocal, he was young enough to change it a little, and I do so love the action with him over the words, yes that kind of action too gutter minded Bren hehe.
    My ex was full of pretty words, but they were empty, nothing to back them up.
    So there’s no need to feel sorry. I love the way my dad does express his love now that I’ve learned to see it.

  260.  #260Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    Brenda, thanks for your input. The problem is . . . “surprised” and “amused” were my authentic feelings — and not at all sarcastic.

    “Angry” and “resentful” would not be at ALL authentic because I did not/do not feel angry and resentful about any of that situation. And I most definitely did not feel “hurt all over again.”

    I didn’t feel anything uncomfortable for myself personally — Jacqueline and I (I thought) had resolved the issue between us — I can’t say more than that because it was through private email — but I felt fine with the resolution — no residual anger, resentment, hurt, etc.

    I was simply surprised to see her saying that she had never seen anything like it when she had recently done something similar. We often help each other see our blind spots on here — like Rori did in the article on this thread — and that’s what I was trying to do. Objectively. To help.

    I feel angry, Shannon, about your comment. I feel very misunderstood. And sad.

    I feel misunderstood about this whole conversation. Wow. I feel surprised that I was so misunderstood and misinterpreted. I feel really sad and angry.

    But I also feel compassion for Jacqueline, because if my words appeared disingenuous to others, I can understand that they felt that way to her (you, Jacqueline) as well. So, I’m sorry that my words felt bad to you. That was not my intent.

  261.  #261Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    As I just opened Rori’s latest eletter, I got a flash of the excited feeling I used to get upon opening them 1.5 years ago, when I was first learning her program!

    Rori’s eletters came like a fresh breath of air on a hot day, because I was floundering with Ryan. I was drinking in the information like I was parched! I listened to her CDs while I worked, taking notes on the side of my desk!

    The people I had asked for relationship advice in the past just didn’t help much. I feel so deeply grateful for being equipped to have a successful relationship with a man!

  262.  #262Daria on October 13, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Knocksoftly ! – just reading this now… But I wanted to give you encouragement because what you said really energized me…
    My little girl didn’t believe me at first either!

    But now she does… It only took a patience… And the strength to stand there as adult when she said stuff like.. “I don’t want your love, it’s not enough, etc”

    Sometimes it still happens, but these voices Are actually just kids… I let them know I feel sad to hear that, but I will actually be here for her anyway… And they soften and cry.

    After awhile they don’t seem to not trust me anymore…

    It happened quickly.

    It’s teaching me a lot abou mothering! Amazing

  263.  #263Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 12:20 pm


    I apologize for misinterpreting your intent. Hearing your explanation here feels comfortable. Last night (in the middle of the night!) when I read it, I felt yucky reading what you wrote.

    I accept that no sarcasm was intended on your part. Will you forgive me?

  264.  #264Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 12:22 pm


    That’s awesome how you explained that! I have had comparable experiences within! I call it mothering my child.

  265.  #265Daria on October 13, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    Yay knocksoftly – cry as much as you can!

    And drink water after… It’s sooo healing to the emotional flow system to cry when we have the water to flow through.

    When it first “got me”…. I fell on the floor and howled and sobbed for like 20 minutes… Then what happened next was that I started laughing for 15 min… Then more crying, then more laughing.

    I feel so excited this is happening to you.

    It is a blessing yay

  266.  #266Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Jacqueline, I also feel misunderstood reading this:

    “if someone can’t say to my face something that they can snark on months later? and then say well she was my mother, now she’s my daddy – paraphrasing Lucy here – I don’t feel good, I feel used. I’m not your mother, daddy or schoolteacher”

    I don’t really know what “snark” means, but it feels bad to read that. I really thought my benevolent intentions were made clear last night in that numbered post. I DID say everything “to your face” in our emails to each other — nothing has been hidden — and, as I said, I thought it was resolved between us.

    The part where you “paraphased” me — I feel grossly misunderstood and misrepresented.

    I am not at all saying you are my mom or dad — triggers often are attached to memories and experiences in our past — they remind us of something, and that’s why they trigger us. Our task is to look at that memory (in this case it involved my parents) and processs the trigger so it can be healed.

    That’s exactly what Knocksoftly did last night too. You and I reminded her of her parents fighting, and that trigger opened up a place of healing for her — it got her unstuck a little — which was wonderful! It didn’t bother me that I reminded her of one of her parents. I didn’t feel “used” at all. I felt grateful and blessed to be part of her processing and healing.

  267.  #267Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    I like this from Rori’s eletter:

    ” And then when you gently toss the ball back to
    him with a “And how ’bout you?” He feels so
    comfortable with you, he tells you everything.”

  268.  #268Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Thanks, Brenda. It feels good to be trusted and believed! I feel like there’s nothing to “forgive” you for — just thank you for listening and working through this with me. What do you think? 🙂


  269.  #269Simply Shannon on October 13, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Oh no Lucy! I’m sorry. I feel misunderstood too. My comment to Brenda was literally me wanting words to reframe MY use of the words “amused” and “surprised”. I didn’t even read your earlier post and wasn’t at all inferring anything about your actual situation. I was just thinking earlier that I wondered how you were doing and that I feel bad I haven’t replied to you directly. (Been working out a lot of my own personal stuff and haven’t commented much on others.)

    Wow. Now I feel tiptoe and eggshells. I continue to feel amazed by the power that words have and how everyone sees things through their own filter.

    I’m sorry Lucy for writing your name in that post without making it clear what I meant and speaking directly to you.

  270.  #270Nikita on October 13, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    i feel angry. I feel very angry. i like loneplum. i like her posts….i like her way with words……I do not find her to be “putrid”….. at all. I do not even see “an attack”.
    I see what I interpret as tying something living to a truck and dragging it. I do not enjoy that. I enjoy lucy……i enjoy loneplum….i appreciate that they seem to agree that rori is creating a space for compassionate communication that feels heartbased …..and as I see myself i prefer to experience this type of communication……attacking is so easy as it is a default position for the ego….and as i swim upstream i enjoy feeling as though i am in good company…..that feels strengthening….that feels like help…that feels ok…..and even that is triggering enough in and of itself that i feel so confused about why any other agenda is present…other than the common goal of evolving into a state of being…..receptive….and openhearted…..compassionate….it feels like so much more work when we spoon feed….the goal of a virtual platform that speaks for itself……the info is here….it is all….HERE…..i feel like invoicing….these interlocutors…..as they tax every word….everything that is already here and being cherished by yin.

  271.  #271Daria on October 13, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Sia – drinking full fat milk and especially raw milk and colostrum can actually help reverse lactose intolerance.

    I had a hard time gaining weight when younger… I did eventually but it was through forcing myself to eat 5 burgers a day…

    And a lot if the weight showed as excess on my belly.

    I still have some of that protective bellyfat.


    Smoking marijuana – may be out of some peoples comfort zone – but it really helps with appetite.

    Fenugreek seed tea helps – it boosts estrogen, maca can help as well I’ve heard, especially coupled with exercise, it will boost muscle growth ( density not size necessarily)

    Weight lifting followed by protein, and lots of starchy stuff not left out works now for me. To spot gain without losing on the rest.

    Also, my body has now settled into a ” new” size, although I can still easily lose weight.

    Working out, and sports that build muscle like rollerblading, biking and ice skating will build legs.

    Check out diff atheletes bodies and see.

  272.  #272Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 12:53 pm


    I did not see feeling messages in some of LonePlum’s word’s directed at Jacqueline. For example, “Where you born a man?” is not a feeling message at all, but a judgment, and a very cutting one at that, considering our sexuality is at the core of our identity.

    I love LonePlum and all the other Sirens, too, but I feel really bad when people are attacked. I don’t like it.

    Lucy, Thank you! I feel good. I feel okay to let it go.

  273.  #273BarbinOz on October 13, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    #149 Brenda

    Movies? Oh I am SUCKER for romance 😀

    The Notebook
    The Bridges of Madison Country
    Bridget Jones Diary
    Love Actually

    Thats just a few for starters LOL!!

  274.  #274BarbinOz on October 13, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    #155 SLV

    YES YES YES!! I love that movie and even went and bought a CD of the soundtrack as the music is just sublime and it is possibly the only CD I have that is not soul or R and B LOL!! Just something about it moves me on soooo many levels.

  275.  #275Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    Hi Barb!

    I’ve been wanting to see The Notebook! I’ve seen the others you listed except Serendipity. Did you see the two Crocodile Dundee movies? I enjoyed them a lot.

    Another romantic one I especially enjoyed was “Seven Days, Seven Nights”. I also liked “What Women Want”.

  276.  #276life_is_too_short_to... on October 13, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    I am feeling a bit discouraged. I love my feelings.

    While I continue to work the internet dating sites to try to keep some kind of cd rotation going, I am really losing faith in starting intimate relationships with veritable strangers. I am not used to this. It is hard. I have not dated in quite some time, just started up again 18 months ago after about 8 years.

    I met my ex-husband in college, amid a community of friends and acquaintances, and we got to know each other over a period of time in that setting.

    I am finding it difficult to entertain the notion of getting intimate with a man who knows nobody that I know and nobody I know knows him.

    I hear stories from friends about women who move in with men when they don’t know their whole story,
    and then something really crazy happens. Or an acquaintance of mine, who said she was having dinner with an internet date and police came and arrested him as a suspect in a child pornography ring, in the papers and everything.

    It’s a jungle out there!

    I suppose that if I want to play, I will have to have courage and know that it is most often a numbers game and sometimes takes a lot of time and leg work to finally find the pearl.

    I’m not going to give up. I also have a feeling that long distance guy and I are fast approaching a re-do, and the dynamite combination of my much deepened sense of self-love, willingness to take chances, and siren tools for transforming relationships may make quite a difference, as it already seems to be doing with us.

    At the very least, it will be excellent practice for me!

    I feel like I am in that power place of being able to choose whether I even want him or not.

    YAY for me!

  277.  #277life_is_too_short_to... on October 13, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    199. knocksoftly

    you will not be ignored?

    I mentioned the movie “Fatal Attraction” on the Questions thread (i think) yesterday.

    Great movie about obsession!!!

    Really cuts to the bone!

    nurses are a bunch of bitchy women…so are teachers! LOL I think it is because they just don’t get paid enough for what they have to put up with!!!

  278.  #278Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 1:14 pm


    I find CDing harder to do than to say, too.

  279.  #279life_is_too_short_to... on October 13, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    Thanks for that, Brenda, you are such a sweetheart!

  280.  #280Nikita on October 13, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    brenda…. i recall loneplum….wondering aloud….a judgment……..to me, would read: based on xyz, you were clearly born a man. that sounds like a judgment to me…asking myself if a man was born a woman is me wondering…..was he born a woman? i did not get sarcasm…. i am in nyc and skewed gender lines are common here….as well as what i have heard about thailand(lots of thai eateries here) some of the boys in chelsea are BEAUTIFUL….and effeminate…..some people have a journey in life that is all about gender….i lived with a transgender woman….i forgot!! she was one of my roomies years ago….i actually learned a lot from her! i marveled at her way with men and she was technically still a “he” below the belt….so as i see it….loneplum…..has not been on “the attack” and i see her as being vilified unfairly and unnecessarily.
    it brings to mind using a cannon ball to kill a mosquito

  281.  #281Renee on October 13, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    Life — Sounds like your friends have had some crazy experiences! You know, I’ve been dating online for the better part of 10 yrs and I’ve never had anything like that happen to me…not saying those things don’t happen, just that the majority of men who are online are on there for the same reasons we are — looking for someone to love, you know?

    I agree you should be careful about whom you meet and of course, always meet them in a public place at first, but I wanted to reassure you that the majority of your online dates will be just plain, old dates — not crimefests or nights full of drama.

    Good luck out there and hugs to you…I hope you run across more men you’re interested in soon!

  282.  #282life_is_too_short_to... on October 13, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    Thanks for the encouragment Renee

    I think this was triggered by my feeling a bit miffed today. I was doing my leaning back on pof, by matching him with my responses in response to what he said. We exchanged our names in the third or fourth email and I said, So, now what? and he responded with what felt like an attack to me. I simply responded that i prefer to be the “girl” in the relationship and let the man take the initiative and that I felt attacked by his response.

    I find that people in general make way too many assumptions and project so much based on words on a computer screen!

    It boggles my mind!!

  283.  #283life_is_too_short_to... on October 13, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    The offending response of his came with a lot of !!!!! and caps and “you seem like this and that” statements, that is why i felt attacked.

  284.  #284Renee on October 13, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Life — I can kind of see where he might read your comment “So now what?” with a mixed reaction…it could definitely be interpreted as “get your butt in gear” I think. Also, in those initial emails, men like it when you ask a question or two — a recent post where someone pasted Rori’s response about asking questions was that it was ok to do so, but to ask questions you were genuinely curious about.

    I realize some sirens have made a big deal out of the fact that we’re not supposed to ask questions, but I think it’s a necessary part of the process early on. What do you think?

  285.  #285BarbinOz on October 13, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    #242 Katarina

    You sound like you are having a wonderful time, it just seemed a bit exhausting to me LOL!! Maybe I AM getting old after all!! But sshhhhhh don’t tell anybody 🙂

  286.  #286Renee on October 13, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    Life — well, that response would probably annoy me too…like you said, it can be hard to interpret words correctly on a screen, but I just try to keep things light and friendly initially and join in on the q & a session and that generally works.

  287.  #287Simply Shannon on October 13, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    Nikita, I love you. I love your words. They are so incredibly soft. My brain gives you this sing-song quality when I read your posts. Quite amusing and comforting in an off the wall way. 🙂

    Brenda, that’s the line I found so amusing! Not in a sarcastic way. I really thought that part was meant as a joke. Kind of like asking me “Are you Asian?” when I’m soooo not Asian. I feel curious why folks went defensive on that line when it is so obvious to me that Jacqueline is a woman. I mean, yes Jacqueline uses a lot of masculine voice but she uses a lot of feminine voice too. My brain didn’t even go there. Just thought it was a bit of dry humor.

  288.  #288BarbinOz on October 13, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    #227 Renee

    I have no idea if what you did is right or wrong being such a newbie to RR’s ways myself. But from my OWN perspective I think you did pretty good, and what I did when I read your post was think I wonder how Renee (or me) would have handled this in the past with a man?

    Also re the government secret work, well you remember that guy that led me here (Military Man) well he told me that he couldn’t really tell me what he did as it was only next of kin could know kind of thing (and of course he was going to tell me later but he has disappeared) anyway he was not on Facebook or any other social networking because of the nature of his job, I think people like this are naturally going to be very wary of allowing us to enter their lives, maybe that’s what Blondie meant when he said he was spooked? It’s more than just a boy meets girl thing as other factors are involved???

  289.  #289Simply Shannon on October 13, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    Nikita, that was a lie I just told. Sing-song sounds wrong. Your voice goes very old-school-movie-starlet sounding in my brain. Maybe Scarlett with a NY twist? 😉

  290.  #290BarbinOz on October 13, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    p.s. To Katarina

    It’s just like when I read Renee say earlier she was CD’ing 3 different men and was juggling 10 others by text/email/phone, I felt exhausted reading that too LOL!!

  291.  #291life_is_too_short_to... on October 13, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    I hear you Renee.

    My feeling is that I probably should have just followed my initial instincts not to respond to him, which is what I did when he first emailed me. I didn’t respond. I wasn’t much interested. That is what I do when I am not interested. I just don’t respond.

    Then about a month later, a couple of days ago, he emails to say, “what does it mean when you don’t get a response?” as in “i don’t want to be ignored”
    came off defensive to me.

    If he is truly interested, he could have just tried again and said he was truly interested, not this passive aggressive stance.

    But this is why i try to get off of email and to phone very quickly, because of the tendency to be misunderstood with the written word.

    i admit, i could use more patience!!

  292.  #292BarbinOz on October 13, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    #282 The Notebook

    Oh Brenda you just HAVE to watch the Notebook, get the tissues ready though it is truly beautiful, the whole movie, the music, the scenery I think it’s NC or is it SC? Anyways soooo lovely and fantastic acting…..sigh….I think I may watch it again tomorrow night, it’s been a while……

  293.  #293Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 2:02 pm


    If LonePlum’s words were nontoxic, then why has Jacqueline left the blog? Why was she upset?

  294.  #294Nikita on October 13, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    is that a rhetorical question?

  295.  #295life_is_too_short_to... on October 13, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    Love Actually was also so good, i want to watch that again!
    and The Notebook…is just spectacular….one guy from pof who I am going to call said he wants a relationship like that…i thought that was a good sign!

    OK, things are not that bad….i have four pof potentials on the scene…and I have also made two friends from pof…very nice guys….one of them i even asked him to go with me somewhere this friday.

  296.  #296Simply Shannon on October 13, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    Brenda, if reading my posts triggered Mercedes and she has decided to take a break or “leave the blog”, does that make me toxic?

    Hot damn, I have power over the whole universe. [insert evil laugh]

    And why am I commenting on this?

  297.  #297Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    I felt yucky when I read LonePlum’s post about Jacqueline. I didn’t like it at all. I see it as extremely toxic.

    I love and accept LonePlum anyway.

  298.  #298Daria on October 13, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    Renee – “I wanted to reassure you that the the majority of your online dates will be just plain, old dates — not crimefests or nights full of drama.”

    lol!! soo funny!! and true… hehehe!!! still laughing

  299.  #299life_is_too_short_to... on October 13, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    LOL Shannon!!


  300.  #300life_is_too_short_to... on October 13, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    Oh well, Daria, I have been surrounded by high drama for YEARS!!! enough is enough! I am a little sensitive!
    have some sympathy! 😉

  301.  #301life_is_too_short_to... on October 13, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    As a matter of fact, I had to pull out my mace one time, this is years ago, when the guy was not wanting to take no for an answer, but then i learned not to go up to the hotel room on the first date.

  302.  #302life_is_too_short_to... on October 13, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    I’m not a bitch. I just have a low tolerance for bullshit.

  303.  #303Daria on October 13, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    oh life!! i didn’t mean to imply you thought it was going to be that way!!!

    although secretly you may be wanting it to be almost overwhelmingly exciting — (hehehe)

    i thought the word “crimefests” was really funny!


    i definitely have sympathy… i feel excited about the start of your new passionate yet relaxing CD life!

  304.  #304Daria on October 13, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Life – yeah, i’ve been thinking and forgetting about getting mace

    i feel really good with my intuition and ability to handle a situation with a man

    (in past times, getting really passive and sweet, yet not giving in…and keeping a relaxed demeanor, and acting very ladylike.. have calmed the situation enough for me to escape)

    but i have had scary interactions for sure – blah!

  305.  #305life_is_too_short_to... on October 13, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    Yes, “crimefests” is really funny…i am LOLing

    ok, you got me…i love excitement (as she hangs her head sheepishly)…. after all, i am a recovering
    “man-crack-aholic” along with Amy F, Ella, Brenda…..

    Love you all

  306.  #306Daria on October 13, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    Embracing the Bitch Goddess inside me!

  307.  #307life_is_too_short_to... on October 13, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    Martha Beck once wrote a brilliant piece on Embracing Your Inner Bitch. It was really good!’

    Then there’s that book, Why Men Love Bitches.

    It’s true. When I answer the phone, “Oh, not YOU again” or “What the heck do YOU want?” they love it.

  308.  #308Katarina Phang on October 13, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    Barb, c’mon now….you are only as old as you think. I’m old too compared to girls in their 20’s but I feel young at heart -and from the neck down. 🙂 I’m, in fact, hotter than girls in their 20’s because I have the self-assuredness/maturity they don’t.

    And what’s not to be liked about being adored?

    Most of us have that excessive energy that can drive a man away. Juggling many dates early in the phase toward commitment is the sanest thing a woman can do for herself.

    I know I’m getting that “forever” thing sooner or later. Till then, I’m enjoying the ride and missing nothing out life.

    I just love my life. I love all the men who come into my life too. I think they’re terrific.

  309.  #309Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    Shannon, I’m sorry I misunderstood you. 🙁 Yes, I took it personally in the midst of all that was going on, but I understand now that you were not really talking about me.

    I feel a little sad that you feel tiptoe and eggshells now. I don’t want to be someone people have to tiptoe around. I would feel good about people continuing to say what they feel and think around me, trusting that we can together work through anything that gets triggered. What do you think?


  310.  #310Siena on October 13, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    Renee, re #257:

    Yes, #1CD flamed out – out of nowhere. One day we had a fantastic date and he told me he missed me, and then I never heard from him again. I know he was (is, maybe) dealing with some personal stuff…

    Blondie reminds me of him because of the kids, the work, the “spooked out”, the questions of whether he’s ready for marriage… and especially the self-esteem bit about you finding someone else.

    In my case, I didn’t do anything at all to bring #1CD back. I just let him go. I did it because every time I thought of a way that I could reach out to him without picking up the relationship oars, I realized I couldn’t. If I could have reached out to him out of pure love, without expecting anything in return, I might have.

    So that’s where the similarities are. You and Blondie seem to have moved passed that… but I was imagining that IF #1CD and I had had the convo about getting spooked, it would have sounded almost exactly like yours.

    BTW, he’s on my IM all day, everyday now. He used to video conference me daily on that IM, and now it’s total silence. I’ve been OH! SO TEMPTED to just drop a note… how easy would it be! But I haven’t done it. He left me, not vise versa. No hard feelings, but that’s just how it is. I wonder what he would say to me if he did IM me or otherwise try to get in touch!?

  311.  #311Senior Lady Vibe on October 13, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    Some posts here, some posts there. It’s hard for me to know what’s going on, there are 934 posts–and going strong– on Rori’s October 7th blog post.

    There are 300 over here! Eek. I see there are more since this morning.

    I’m a newbie trying to catch hold of this. Is there some reason there is not a forum/boards kind of format? …just asking not being negatively critical.


  312.  #312Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Brenda — “If LonePlum’s words were nontoxic, then why has Jacqueline left the blog? Why was she upset?”

    Jacqueline stated why she left: “I think it’s time because I don’t agree with Rori – I am not attracted to that or to her. She makes me feel gross and put down…”

  313.  #313Katarina Phang on October 13, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    I knew SG would be so touched watching the miner rescue because I remember how he shed a tear watching a 2 y.o girl was killed in an accident when we were at the cabin.

    So he texted me this morning (he’s off work because of the cold):

    SG: I’m home today -stayed home to rest- laying here watching the CNN coverage of the miner rescue & my mind drifts off thinking of u -Wanna webcam with you today.

    Me: Ok lemme shower first. The miner rescue made me think of you too when one boy hugged his daddy. I knew how that would make you cry.

    SG: Yeah -so moving.

    SG: The next miner (#21) asked for both his wife and his mistress to greet him when he comes up. I guess his wife said “no way.” Too funny…

    Me: LOL…if you were him and I were your wife, I’d say u might as well stay down there.

  314.  #314Siena on October 13, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    also, (still processing this), around the time it would have made sense for me to reach out to him, I didn’t for 2 other reasons. 1) I intuitively knew that he was panicking about us. Things were really good between us, and I know that he was falling in love with me, and that it was scaring him. Unfortunately, he let the fear win. I was hoping he wouldn’t let it win… but I can’t change that. 2) When I considered whether I should reach out to him or just let him go without making him wrong about wanting to leave me, it seemed that letting him go was the most respectful, loving thing I could do. I know he doesn’t want to hurt me, and at the time, it seemed more loving for me to remove any stress or attempt to control the outcome… so that’s what I did.

    Given another man and a different situation, I might not just let him go without any talk or anything… this time it seemed like the best thing to do.

  315.  #315Nikita on October 13, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    The team of psychologists charged with ensuring the mental welfare of the men below ground are attempting keep such developments from the miners.
    “We read all the letters before they are sent down to make sure the miners do not experience any extra anxiety,” said Alberto Iturra, head of the psychological team.
    One of the trapped miners, Yonni Barrios Rojas, who is using his first aid training to treat medical problems underground is among those who faces difficult questions when he finally makes it the surface.
    His wife, Marta Salinas, 56, discovered he had a mistress when she came across another woman holding a vigil for him. The other woman, Susana Valenzuela, said they met on a training course five years ago and he was planning to leave his wife for her.
    “He is my husband. He loves me and I am his devoted wife,” insisted Mrs Salinas. “This other woman has no legitimacy.”


  316.  #316Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    My interpretation of lone plum’s post was similar to Nikita’s.

    My kneejerk, initial reaction to the gender comment was shock (like Brenda, thinking it was an attack), then, as I continued to read, my feeling turned to amusement (like Shannon, thinking it was humor) — then, as I finished reading and read it a SECOND time, opening myself to lone plum’s heart and intent as best I could, I then perceived it as a sincere question (like Nikita).

    When I saw it as a sincere question, it reminded me of all the questions that Jacqueline had asked ME awhile ago that, at the time, felt insulting and attacking and judgmental to me. So it made me wonder about that too….. It seemed so similar.

  317.  #317Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 3:48 pm


    RE: #316 – You’re a lot stronger than me! I would have never not contacted him. I wonder if he was testing to see if he meant a lot to you for you to reach out to him?

  318.  #318Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 3:49 pm


    RE: #317 – It’s overwhelming sometimes. Rori suggested we post on the newest thread, so she could find us more easily.

  319.  #319Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 3:50 pm


    RE: #318 – I wasn’t clear from her wording you quoted. I wondered if she was referring to LonePlum as “her”.

  320.  #320Lizzie on October 13, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    Ha ha ha…. oh this is too funny….there is this new guy who called and wants to have a date at the end of the week…then the guy I met last week wants to take me to a movie at the end of the week….and the guy I had a totally hot affair with at the beginning of the year is sending me notes – I just know he is cruising to come back for more…OMG!!! Now what am I going to do…..this is hillarious and the one I really want isn’t on this roster….

  321.  #321Siena on October 13, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    Brenda #323, he knew that I was there to support him. We had a convo about what was going on in his life, and I let him know that I was there for him and that I wanted to be there, etc.

    If he was testing me, then that’s not love. Perhaps he wanted to see whether I would chase him if he went away… but a Siren doesn’t chase and it’s not the type of relationship I want. I want a man who is able to emotionally be with me 100% , and instead of testing me, talk to me about things.

    So… if he was testing, it was a game that I don’t want to play.

    I don’t think he was testing though… it feels more like his life imploded (which it did) and he couldn’t give me anything so he went away.

  322.  #322Siena on October 13, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    …and perhaps he DIDN’T know that I was there to support him 100%, but I did my best to communicate that. Again, I can’t control how he heard or didn’t hear it.

    If he thought I wasn’t interested, then it was a tragic misunderstanding that only God can fix now 😉

  323.  #323Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 4:09 pm


    You are a lot more on top of it emotionally than me, that’s for sure. It must have hurt like hell to not have him at least tell you he was ending it or taking a break.

  324.  #324Siena on October 13, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    🙁 yes, it (still) feels terrible. You might remember that I was so excited about him, and about how we “fit” unlike I’ve ever fit with anyone before 🙁

    But I’m on my bridge, and I know what I want… and I spent plenty of years wandering away from my bridge and to a man who was not on my bridge with me.

    That hurts worse than someone I care for leaving without a word.

  325.  #325life_is_too_short_to... on October 13, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    327. knocksoftly

    i’m sorry if my comment made you feel yucky.
    it was probably an insensitive thing to say in the light
    of your success.

    Thank you for telling me.

    Here’s to celebrating breakthroughs!!

  326.  #326Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    I am sweating it out for Ryan still, this being the 10th day since he contacted me. It is all I can do to not contact him, no matter what I tell myself. But I won’t. Not any more.

  327.  #327Nikita on October 13, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    old beau sighting!!!!

  328.  #328life_is_too_short_to... on October 13, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    That’s good, Brenda. Stay strong. We all support you.
    You will greatly esteem yourself if you hold out.

  329.  #329life_is_too_short_to... on October 13, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    314. I like what you wrote, Katarina

  330.  #330Brenda on October 13, 2010 at 4:49 pm


    Thank you! Yes, that is what I need to do and am trying to do.

  331.  #331Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    Brenda, I think she meant Rori — grammatically that would be the case anyway — and, did you read what Rori wrote to J and LP on the other thread? — I thought it was very wise and insightful — and Rori clearly did not “take sides,” which may have felt bad to J — but I thought Rori’s response was brilliant and compassionate toward both of them, and all of us. But maybe a little hard to hear for someone who was wanting LP’s post to “disappear.”

  332.  #332Daria on October 13, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    Yum boiled rabbit — deeelicious. =D

  333.  #333Daria on October 13, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    Knocksoftly – I love pulling my energy in, it’s usually a purple sparkly energy..

    And I also have an easier time with older new age ” surround yourself with a purifying white light” meditations, if, instead, I let that light be purply and colorful and sparkly

  334.  #334Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    Okay, double-checked for accuracy — the word was not “disappear” — it was “literally all go away.”

  335.  #335Daria on October 13, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    Ohh that feels great to hear!

    I feel blazing Love for you too !

    Off to shower… I have a man coming on the bus to get me to ride the bus over to his place where he will cook me pasta!

  336.  #336life_is_too_short_to... on October 13, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    LOL i totally gonged that guy on pof…..he’s just really showing his colors in a big way.

    I am really trying to open my heart to all of them, but i do have a low tolerance for B.S….no apologies!

    That doesn’t mean i don’t like some good natured teasing and banter, but i can tell when it’s way too sarcastic and passive aggressive, based on several other comments he made.

    it sounds like he is not having a good experience on pof.

    but hey, my mantra is what Lizzie said


  337.  #337Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    Barb, I don’t know if anyone else answered your question about the shadow self on the other thread, but here are a couple links. I didn’t read these thoroughly, but it looks like they can give you a general idea of what it’s about.



    Also, thank you for the invitation to stay in your spare room if I come to Australia! That would be awesome! 🙂


  338.  #338Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    Daria! Yay for a man coming on the bus to get you!!! Woohoo!!

  339.  #339Nikita on October 13, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    i have eaten rabbit…..yes. it is true…. and i would do it again……. rabbit is good for the heart 🙂 heartache rx: rabbit.

  340.  #340life_is_too_short_to... on October 13, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    337. knocksoftly

    “Life is too Short-Thanks for your sensitivity. Big Trigger….ppl tell me I look like Glenn Close. ROFL.”

    OH NO, you’re kidding!!

    “But to be honest and not hide anymore…I have sometimes felt that out of control. No boiling rabbits in my past but I do have great difficulty with obsession. Breath….I feel scared……It feels disguisting to admit that sometimes I actually feel that out of control…..”

    yes, i do understand. I have felt that way before for sure.

    i have found it is much better not to beat myself up about it, which just seems to make it worse.

    I focus on going into the feelings and how i really don’t want to give my power away.

    thank you for being cool about this.

    i thought you might get a kick out of this:

    Glenn Close reprising her Fatal Attraction role of Alex Forrest in SNL


  341.  #341Surfgirl on October 13, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    Hi Brenda,

    Thanks for your reply. I feel like you’re completely right in your advice to trim my speech down to a few sentences. I even came up with something great today;

    “I feel more valuable than that hanging out with me is ‘better than being by yourself’. I feel like I want to be special to someone. I don’t want to date someone who feels blase about me.”

    I also feel like it’s great that you’re discovering and owning your feelings about being with Gentle Man. I feel like you can spend time with him as long as he is giving to you. Rori is so right in the waterwheel exercise and not rowing the boat. Not contacting him is definitely the way to go – let him row the boat…

    Right now it is just your job to feel any love from him coming towards you. He feels honest and straightforward and kind, which is good, but how do you FEEL when you’re with him or not with him. Keep focusing on that, and he’ll be sure to show up.

    He may just be telling you that he ‘can’t dance’, in which case you may need to find someone who can.

    I’m kind of in the same position with ‘J’. I’m letting him show me with his actions what kind of man he is and whether he is worthy of my attention and affections. In the mean time, I am keeping dating other guys open, and it really helps keep perspective.

    In support of your heart and feelings,


  342.  #342jacqueline on October 13, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    Hi again – need to edit and can simply add to my post –

    NO!!! I meant I did not agree with Rori that I would attract this kind of girl – if she OR I were a man.

    LOL….the girl (who now has me wondering if this is her issue and she’s a girl??)….feels disgusting to me in that she’s written here for two weeks and wants to somehow attack me in my femininity for something that happened 2 months ago??? I don’t attract, feel attraction too, or interact with MEN who disgust me or repulse me. Similarly I don’t want to interact with this person who since I’ve never before spoken to took me in a hidden ambush.

    I feel NO attraction of any kind. And I wrote that to Rori, too – that I did not agree with what she said, and that I was looking for a breakthrough from Rori.

    Lucy – I hear you and you are going all circular about this – you are right, the issue was dead and gone, until at an inopportune moment you seemed – to me only?! – inappropriately amused. And I reacted to that. I still say it was uncalled for to indicate/voice those feelings around something so long ago – it was NOT recent, as in 2 weeks ago.

    And to feel something like amusement at my discomfort and horror at the BLOG NOT BEING safe because of me for those that said so, felt bad.

    I did not say I wanted any comments to dissapear. I said they might – I had no idea what Rori would do or say. I have heard back from her and she’s got me laughing now.

    However, I really am going to be here less if at all, and I do want you to lead by example. Not to harbor grudges, hold onto agendas, pick apart and diagram my grammar. If I am unclear, simply email me. And you can of course, not lead at all. And keep posting about my grammer. It’s all good.

    I see Brenda becomming a fabulous mediator, speaker of truth in a gentle feminine voice, an uplifter, a helpmate and a blessing to those who are new here – she’s blossoming. I hope we all do that!

    And – a shoutout to HONEY! and Denise, and Ella and Lorelei and Renee and Shannon et. al.!!! And hi, Alias Girl – I like your blog and AMBER Dahling….LOVE AND HUGS AND YOU ROCK!!!! a zillion fabulous things for you deserve them….

    It can be a very lovely and safe place here, you’ll find a lot of support and when you get to the point where you’re triggered or are triggering, you’ll have friends to help you, Rori to go to, and it will be worth it for the personal growth you’ll have found.

    I’ve never been here for a romantic relationship, I am here to communicate better, to let go, to walk away and to, as I discovered, find friends. This has been great for that.

    Oh, and my boyfriend? He said if Rori’s saying you attract men who like to argue or you like to argue – she’s wrong. Hey, he lives with me. Maybe some people simply assign a voice to me I don’t have. That was funny and interesting – that he doesn’t see that about me at all. Cool.

    LOL…I couldn’t even figure out how saying I must be a man was relevant, until a fellow siren said it’s the worst attck they can make on a forum valuing femininity. So, if anyone is passive aggressive here? be aware, I won’t get it!!

    Jason’s newest writing on why he likes to coach women coming up Friday – and you all know where I am, and who I am, and that I’m using my real name and face…

    So, come play whenever you want.

    Happy thoughts and positive beliefs and balloons and cookies!! all around,


  343.  #343Siena on October 13, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    re clutter: I’m a recovering clutter-holic. Feng Shui practitioners say that a cluttered home indicates a cluttered mind, and “bad energy”. They say the state of your closet indicates the state of your subconscious.

    I’m also a business coach, and one of the ways that I teach women to bring in more money is to first make sure that all their finances are uncluttered. This means not only having a debt repayment plan, but being on top of your finances, having one physical location where bills go before and after they’re paid, and also making sure your wallet and purse are clear and clean of clutter.

    The relationship therapist who is at the forefront of all this masculine/feminine energy practice (I forget her name right now) said that it’s impossible for a woman to be in touch with her femininity in the midst of clutter.

    All food for thought… they are things that I think of often as I clean up and unclutter my home. I used to be the worst of the worst!

  344.  #344Siena on October 13, 2010 at 6:32 pm

    my last post feels preachy to me. Ick. I apologize if it was offensive. This is me feeling bad about Mover Man and #1CD and trying to look for something positive… I start sounding like a school marm when I do that…

  345.  #345life_is_too_short_to... on October 13, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    knocksoftly, here’s another one for you and your daughter, I was ROFLing


  346.  #346Nikita on October 13, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    I have also attended a function where Glenn Close attended….she is Gorgeous in real life…. I didn’t get a chance to speak with her……but her face looks so serene…..

  347.  #347Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 7:03 pm

    Siena, your educational post felt good to read. <3

  348.  #348Buttery on October 13, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    Who is the relationship therapist who said that “it’s impossible for a woman to be in touch with her femininity in the midst of clutter” ?

    That idea triggers me because I can be an f’n slob sometimes….

  349.  #349Siena on October 13, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    Thanks Lucy 🙂

    Buttery, it was Dr. Pat Allen. “If a woman doesn’t take care of her body, if she can live in a messy environment, she is not in touch with her feelings as a woman.”

  350.  #350Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    “…I do want you to lead by example. Not to harbor grudges, hold onto agendas, pick apart and diagram my grammar. If I am unclear, simply email me. And you can of course, not lead at all. And keep posting about my grammer. It’s all good.”

    Ack. I feel heart-racing, chest tightness, sad, angry, offended, and grossed-out reading this.

    I DON’T WANT to be judged and directed.

    I am sorry, Jacqueline, that I misunderstood part of your statement about Rori and Lone Plum. I feel glad that I did understand the gist of it though — that you disagreed with Rori and her assessment of the situation.

    I still feel really icky about what was written about me. I don’t want to feel this way. I feel sad.

    I feel sad that Jacqueline believes things about me that are untrue.

    I think it is touching on my shame trigger a bit. I suppose that is a good thing — heal the last vestiges of shame. Yes, this trigger is definitely an NV from my dad — a little bit the way he talked to me at times, but moreso the way he talked to my mom. I feel sad realizing how that must have felt to my mom.

    It would feel great to have this shame trigger COMPLETELY healed. Please, God. And thank you for allowing these triggers into my life to heal me. Amen.

  351.  #351Simply Shannon on October 13, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    I would like some help please. I feel really angry reading Jacqueline’s post. Like furious. I really want to spew forth the venom, to just voice this nastiness and get it out. But I don’t believe it will help me heal whatever it is that gets triggered by her. Or will it?

    Ahhhh frig it. (Jacqueline, if you are reading this, I’m asking you to give me space. Something in your words sets me off nearly every time you write. It’s not about you. I know this. And yet, it happens so frequently I’m done ignoring it. So again, this is a friendly disclaimer. This is not about you. I’m not writing to you. I’m writing to myself, for myself.)

    I feel furious. My words are not disgusting.

    I feel furious. My feelings are not inappropriate.

    I feel furious (lessening). I don’t want Rori to protect me. I can protect myself. I don’t require the affirmation, the seal of approval, or the sorority club secret handshake.

    I feel furious (lessening). I don’t want to be told what to do. I’ll hold grudges and agendas and whatever else I want to do.

    I feel unseen and bored. Don’t write my name like you know me. You don’t know me at all.

    And I hate balloons, which come off as some kind of flippant band-aid to make it all better.

    That is all.

  352.  #352Orna Walters on October 13, 2010 at 8:10 pm


    So great to read this from you: “I talk to the little girl inside me that experienced that as a child — I comfort her and hold her and tell her that *I* see her and hear her. That she is not invisible. That I will keep her safe.”

    I’m feeling all warm and fuzzy reading that.

    I’ve shared mine here dozens of times and will write it out here again. I say “I love and approve and accept myself!” I say it all day long. I find that if I don’t fill my inner dialog purposefully with something that I choose that my mind will simply fill it with something.

    Lucy, I’m curious if you have tried out the Inner Child Dates I have mentioned. If so, I’d love to know how those have worked for you.

    Love and Abundance,

  353.  #353Orna Walters on October 13, 2010 at 8:11 pm

    Lucy, if you wish to connect with me off the blog my email is Orna@CreatingLoveOnPurpose.com

  354.  #354Orna Walters on October 13, 2010 at 8:15 pm


    Happy to know my thoughts/suggestions helped. Obsessing was my KINGDOM! I reigned there for some time. LOL!

    I believe in you!

  355.  #355Siena on October 13, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    Jacqueline, I believe Rori meant “attract” as in “bring things to you,” not necessarily in a romantic or sexual way. in all of us, there are things that need to be healed, and some believe that God/the Universe is always providing opportunity for healing. We see who we are by those we encounter – good and bad – throughout the day, and how we react to them.

    It’s not easy to hear. You may remember a month or so ago I talked about attracting the 2nd registered sex offender in 2 years (extraordinary odds). Daria and Erika challenged me to figure out what it was inside myself that was a sexual predator – attracting another sexual predator. I still don’t know the answer to that one, although I believe it has more to do with me being protected than a predator…

  356.  #356Siena on October 13, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    Hmmmm why do I feel the need to stick my nose in and offer clarification? Why am I persisting in my boy energy. No thank you – I feel best being a girl. I feel tired of being a mediator. Everyone does not have to understand in order for life to be good. Some choose to misunderstand, and I can’t control or fix that. Nor do I want to try anymore. Back to focusing on me and staying out of others’ business.

  357.  #357Jacqueline on October 13, 2010 at 8:41 pm

    @ Lucy – I am sorry I trigger your negative voices, Lucy. I don’t know how to not do that as I am speaking from my truth.

    And I’ve gotten several emails today saying questioning one’s sexual identity or implying they’re hemaphoditic (sp? who knows) is the ULTIMATE insult. Which I was amused by – like who IS this strange girl, and what is her point. Totally didn’t get it for the complete dominance and annhilation it was, I guess.

    We however, are much closer and maybe therefore much more likely to trigger each other?

    and Shannon, I don’t get it where I trigger you, but I can’t not be me to remove all triggers – lol – that’s why all I can do is remove myself. I was trigggered by your very name “Simply” Shannon – as if you were special, singled out, held apart, etc. for a long time -so I just rarely read your posts. I was glad it seemed different, but from what you wrote, it wasn’t.

    And Siena, you are the reason I’m posting this – you are very insightful and that is a fascinating idea. It totally puts a new spin on it – why am I attracting attacking and insults at the most base level? Who knows, I don’t; but that at least feels interesting. So thanks very much.

    And, just so you know, I thought that conversation was over the top total bs and kind of cruel, and I didn’t get involved because I am a trigger so I doubted I’d make it better for you.

    Sometimes, life just is. Maybe it was your town, your location, something totally NOT about you – it’s like saying I attract hurricanes. Well, if living in Houston does – I do. Irrational logic – fallacy of some sort I can’t think of name. My man is blue, all men are blue sort of thing.

    And it is also interesting to me that Rori has a lot of space for all these things – heck she encourages triggers.

    So, no balloons for Shannon, and hopefully no triggers for Lucy and a compliment for Siena.

  358.  #358Siena on October 13, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    Thanks Jacqueline 🙂

    Re a hurricane: some look at it and see a wonderful force of nature that’s awesome to behold. Others see devastation and destruction. And it is both of those things, but how it is interpreted depends 100% on the person observing it.

  359.  #359Jacqueline on October 13, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    Wow, you are being a deep mirror or something – because my boyfriend’s an insurance adjustor and he sees it as an awesome thing and it triggers me who sees death and devastation big time. It’s like hearing some kind of reversing mirror….very cool.

    And I feel stupid posting ppssssss’s….but so valuable to me. Thanks!

  360.  #360Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    Jacqueline, I didn’t realize you had misunderstood Rori. I am glad Siena was able to explain it to you in a way you could hear.

  361.  #361Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 9:20 pm

    Jacqueline, your phrase “my truth” may help me to hear you better in the future. If I can remember to do so, I will mentally translate your words to reflect the reality that you are seeing me through your own filters and conditioning. Thank you. I feel hopeful that that will help.

  362.  #362Lucy on October 13, 2010 at 9:29 pm

    I feel bad reading the stuff about shannon and lone plum. LP triggered some people, and jacqueline triggered some people. Same thing.

  363.  #363Simply Shannon on October 13, 2010 at 9:44 pm

    My natural stance is to point out what I’m seeing in an effort to “teach” and “help” and “explain”, and I don’t want to do that. I feel bored. When people want help, they’ll ask for it.

    And Jacqueline, I really appreciate you saying that about my name. I felt surprised reading that. Caught off guard, like wow I never thought of it that way. I wrote it as “Simply Shannon, nothing more, nothing less”. I like your way much better actually. “Special and unique Simply Shannon”. I like it. For the record, I’ve never asked you to remove your triggers or attempt to not trigger me. I welcome that. I don’t want to stay in the same place. If everyone agreed with me, I’d feel bored. I can talk to myself all day for that. Zzzzz. 🙂

  364.  #364melody on October 13, 2010 at 10:46 pm

    I feel bad that LonePlum seems to have left.

    She was stating her case.
    She was working through an obvious trigger.

  365.  #365Girl on October 13, 2010 at 11:00 pm

    I feel like violent.

    I guess feel triggered. Like in a violent “Shut up, you bad word” way. I just feel like demolishing the smugness. The tone. The voice that does sound manly to me. But not even manly. Like removed from the Source, just a big mess of lies – that’s what I hear – obstructedness, not truth. I barely sense the light coming through the construct, but it is faint and frustrating. I feel a violent urge to destroy the construct. And now I feel myself coming down and I feel very weird about the rush of strong emotion..

  366.  #366Nikita on October 13, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    construct…. i like this word…i can feel it…

  367.  #367Nikita on October 13, 2010 at 11:08 pm


    this is about control and how we lose energy…this is a fave of mine and i feel a little apprehensive sharing it with all…but …. Girl. . . . i thought of you…….

  368.  #368melody on October 13, 2010 at 11:08 pm

    Wow Girl!
    Those are some major heavy duty thoughts!

    “removed from the Source”.

    Oh yes, so dead and cold.

  369.  #369melody on October 13, 2010 at 11:13 pm

    And this Girl:

    “just a big mess of lies – that’s what I hear – obstructedness, not truth.”

    Exactly as stated, to me, such an apt description…

  370.  #370Lorelei on October 14, 2010 at 12:23 am

    @ Renee, post number 227.

    Hi – I’m late to this conversation, and the threads are so busy at the moment! I may have missed some posts on this. But can I throw in my reaction about Blondie’s changing reasons for why he can’t or won’t or mustn’t get committed to you . . .? It’s from my heart, but parts are from my head as well . .

    I am speaking from first-hand, face-to-face, direct personal experience here in my first comment. This has been my situation in a relationship. When someone is genuinely employed by secretive government agencies, the staff are incredibly highly briefed and trained about what to say to people who need to know. They know exactly what to say to prospective and actual partners, and to their parents, in order to keep them in the picture, to reassure them as much as possible, to provide evidence that they are not fantasists, and to not give away anything they must not speak about. If this is his reality, it would not be as confusing or stressing as what he has told you. If it is his reality, he is going to be a secretive kind of person, which will have an impact on things, but he would have been able to tell you things a little more clearly. And he wouldn’t have changed his story.

    But my heart sickened and sank when I read of the conversation . . . a constantly-changing reason-why-I-can’t-commit feels suspicious, however much we want to give him the benefit of the doubt. And I’m the queen of giving men the benefit of the doubt, though I’m busy throwing my crown on the floor at the moment and beginning to listen to my heart and my instincts.

    I haven’t seen anyone else suggest this on here, and I don’t have intimate-relationship experience of people in these next two types (though I have occasionally met them professionally from when I worked as a counsellor and therapist in hospital and church settings ten and fifteen years ago). The thing about secretive government agencies is more the stuff of either fantasists who aren’t quite in reality, or people who have double lives (and partners) elsewhere. It’s the best cover story, because it is the one thing that you can never check, and there’s the hint and controlling threat that you might endanger their safety/security/cover story if you did press for more information.

    I’m glad you got out during the night when you did. Please go on looking after your heart and your soul. I’m so sorry for the pain you’re going through. You are handling this so beautifully and gracefully, and certainly better than I would be able to at the moment, by following your heart and your instincts. We’re all with you.

  371.  #371Lorelei on October 14, 2010 at 12:29 am

    Hi Siena – re post number 355.

    And for all of us Sirens who sometimes get overwhelmed with clutter, physical clutter, paperwork clutter, financial clutter, or even bodyweight clutter.
    Flylady. I want to be an uncluttered Siren, and some of Flylady’s routines, have been really helpful to me, even though I don’t follow the whole programme. I love feeling uncluttered – I feel clean, free and I don’t get as stressed, and I’m freer to focus on more important things.

    Hope it’s OK to post her website here: http://www.flylady.net/

  372.  #372Lorelei on October 14, 2010 at 12:42 am

    And I hope the above doesn’t sound preachy Your comment didn’t sound preachy Siena – and I agree with it. It feels easier to be a Siren, and to stay in Sireny, flowy feelings when I’m on top of my clutter, and not having to wrench into stressed boy energy when I can’t find my keys on the way out to some circular dating, because they fell under a pile of unsorted papers!!!!

    Though I had some practice at staying Sireny when I temporarily lost my original marriage certificate, which I needed to send off for my divorce to progress, and I want it to go ahead as quickly as posisble. It was all, “I feel incredibly pissed off with myself, but I intend not to go into blame myself mode, I feel terrified that my being cluttered is going to delay my divorce, I feel panic-y, my solicitor and my husband will think I’m stupid, but I am going to be compassionate with myself because I’ve had a very stressful summer living out of a suitcase.” etc etc! So did manage to stay in my feelingy Siren heart, but I was soooo stressed out. I gradually remembered which pile of paperwork it might have fallen into, but that was the kind of stress that getting the paperwork in order saves me from.

    It feels like I’m trying to say that I need a balance between by girl and boy energies. And my boy energy can support and nourish my girl energy.

  373.  #373Meemee on October 14, 2010 at 3:31 am

    I feel so bad that I have to be away from all the conversations happening here.
    I am learning to babystep, as many of you asked me to do. I am trying to find things that makes me feel good.
    My PhD supervisor was in town for a couple of days and I was so busy with meetings. She said she feels proud of me and happy that I got an international fellowships and that now I am in a position to move on in my life. We met for breakfast yesterday and though he criticized me a lot for not giving enough time for my research in the beginning, she gave me words of encouragement. I felt really good after meeting her.
    Then I did something which made me extremely happy- I helped a friend of mine- she is also a PhD student- to write a paper. We sat at 3 o clock in the afternoon to write and it went on till 4 am next morning.We took small breaks in between- but it was so so fulfilling- writing, reading, editing, discussing, sharing ideas.
    What I felt really good about this is that I did not get a single second to think about him.
    I feel happy when I get busy with my life and my work, so much so that I have no time to think about him.
    Love you all

  374.  #374Renee on October 14, 2010 at 3:39 am

    Lorelei — I appreciate your comments.

    The ever-changing-reason-he-can’t-commit did sound suspicious to me, that’s why, when he finally just said he was spooked, that sounded real to me.

    I still don’t know what to believe about this “goverment” work or whatever it is…I’m trying to remember if he actually said “government” or just implied it was the government, but in any event, it’s still reason to be suspicious.

    When you said, “Thank God you got out when you did,” I felt like maybe I hadn’t been clear because I don’t feel like I’ve gotten out of it at all. He’s supposed to call me today and we’re still going to get together when he gets back.

    I know I probably should just give up on him and part of me has a sneaking suspicion that he’s going to break up with me again while he’s gone during this trip, given that he doesn’t have the most pleasant memories of us to take on the road with him, but I like him a lot and I really want things to work out…I just think he’s confused right now…and with my up and down moods as of late, I kind of understand why he’d be confused. I just think we have the potential to really have something special and I don’t want to give up on him until I have to…regardless of this whole “government” weirdness.

    I don’t know…maybe the prospect of a “real relationship” is just so tempting to me that I’m making to much of this guy, but I just know that when he’s with me, he treats me like a princess and I haven’t had that in so many years…it’s hard to explain. He’s always fussing over my comfort and doing sweet little things for me…if he has made up his mind to break up with me, I will definitely miss him a lot…he’ll be a hard one to replace 🙁 .

  375.  #375Renee on October 14, 2010 at 3:46 am

    MeeMee — Looks like I’m not the only one up at an unreasonably early hour, lol.

    I’m so glad that you really had a chance to enjoy yourself yesterday and were able to escape all thoughts of that guy. You’re really doing well with babystepping away from this guy and I haven’t yet said “Congratulations!” on your fellowship. That’s huge and just what you needed. I’m so glad you’ve found Rori’s work while you’re still so young and have so much of your romantic life ahead of you — I think you’ll end up in a wonderful relationship before to long, especially now that you’re entering a time period where you’re really going to get to focus on what’s important to YOU and not have to continue slogging through your days surrounded by this guy’s B.S.

    Good job, Miss MeeMee — keep up the good work! 🙂

  376.  #376Renee on October 14, 2010 at 3:47 am

    That should be “before too long” — grrr…hate typos! 😕

  377.  #377Meemee on October 14, 2010 at 3:49 am

    And today at office I met him. He came to my room without knocking (he always does that) and asked “How are you doing” “What are you upto?” “Why are you looking happy these days” etc etc without waiting for an answer. I did not reply him, then he started moving around in my room looking at some books I have there on my shelf . I was writing a mail to my supervisor about one book I was using for my thesis. Then my phone rang and I picked the call- while I was on phone he came to my computer looked at the mail I was writing and tried to tell me something. When I was done, he asked me to send him the pdf copy of the book I was writing to my supervisor about. I felt so irritated. I said I will do it later when I have time. He asked me whether I had lunch and I said “yes”. Then he left saying that he will be back after lunch!! I was shocked at his audacity.
    I am not going to send him that book. It is there in our library. It is available online too. He can better get it for himself. I strongly feel he does not want that book but was just making an excuse to talk friendly to me.
    This made me angry- really really angry.
    I made a tea for myself. Went to the library, sat there for some time.
    I could feel the feelings of shock and nervousness of meeting him after many many days getting diluted.
    But I still feel angry

  378.  #378Jennifer on October 14, 2010 at 4:01 am

    I realized why I’ve been in such a funk.
    It’s been nearly a year since I left B.
    nearly a year….i didn’t even realize on a concious level.
    This is why I can’t stop thinking about him…..probably. Maybe I’m just OCD.
    I’m going to (when I get time….Judo class full of hotties tonight) read the posts from one year ago. I want to see if I have evolved any or grown any or gotten any “better”
    What do Y’all think?

  379.  #379Renee on October 14, 2010 at 5:37 am

    Jennifer — I understand where you’re coming from. The guy from Nashville I met 4 yrs ago (whom I let jerk me around for over a year) always comes to mind this time of year because that’s when we met. And he still picks up the phone on occasion, just to ‘test’ me and see if I’ll still answer…I do, once in a while, but now that I’m more aware of how toxic he is, I don’t think I’ll ever answer again.

    Anyway…certain times of year can be wonderfully/painfully nostalgic — fall, springtime, Christmas time…this could definitely explain why you’ve been in a funk. I’ve only been on the board about 4 months (can’t believe it’s been that long!), so I didn’t know you a year ago, but you seem to be getting very in touch with your feelings these days…

    Hope you’re able to process and move through this funk soon.


  380.  #380Simply Shannon on October 14, 2010 at 7:03 am

    Jennifer, I bet reading old posts will feel quite revealing. When I’ve stumbled across old posts, I feel sad for the girl that was once me, that she didn’t see even then how lovely she was.

  381.  #381Brenda on October 14, 2010 at 8:55 am


    RE: #355-356 – It didn’t feel preachy to me. I really appreciate what you said about uncluttering. It was good information. And it’s true.

  382.  #382tinque on October 14, 2010 at 9:00 am

    I don’t know where to put this, so here is as good a place as any.
    Update – Resounding success on the FE experiment. WOW is all I can say. Oh and maybe YUM!!!

  383.  #383tinque on October 14, 2010 at 9:05 am

    And another thing, is anyone else on the east coast shivering? I can’t stop even though I’m sharing the electric blanket with kitty Peanut who’s not doing so well, poor thing (he’s 20 1/2).
    It’s not that cold is it? It was SO froggy out this AM too, so thick I couldn’t even see the lake.

  384.  #384Senior Lady Vibe on October 14, 2010 at 9:15 am

    [wondering if italics attribute works…)
    395: tinque says:
    (i)…is anyone else on the east coast shivering?”(/i)

    Not exactly shivering, I adore the cooler weather of the season but I caught a chill then a cold and sneezed and coughed all night. I just went bought some vile cough and cold remedy from Rite Aid.


  385.  #385Senior Lady Vibe on October 14, 2010 at 9:16 am

    Hmmm, no italics.

  386.  #386tinque on October 14, 2010 at 9:20 am

    Give me HOT and humid any day.

  387.  #387Denise on October 14, 2010 at 9:40 am

    tinque, move to the South! It is a balmy 81. Low is expected to be 68-it is gettin’ chillin’ down here.

    Last nite was a wonderful nite with my Perfect Man. I leaned back, and he just kept coming forward. I am so conscience of it now, it really WORKS! We had dinner at a favorite old place, watched the miners get rescued, which lead to some interesting discussion, drove in my old neighborhood on the beach and walked in town. All the time, he could not keep his hands from touching me.

  388.  #388Brenda on October 14, 2010 at 9:49 am


    RE: #390 – This man needs some serious boundaries set! If it were me, I would address him for my own emotional wellbeing! Here are some ideas:

    Excuse me, I feel angry when you walk in my office without knocking. I don’t like it when people invade my space.

    If he moved to look at my computer screen while I was on the phone, I would stand up and cover the screen with my body, to make a major issue of it. Then if I got off the phone and he asked what’s so secret or some such garbage, I would say, “I feel violated when people look at my computer screen. I don’t like it when people don’t mind their own business.

    If he asked for a pdf copy of my book, I would say, “No.” If he asked why, I would say, “I don’t want to.”

    You don’t owe him any explanations or “politeness.” His actions were totally rude and in complete disregard of respect and boundaries. I hope you don’t let him walk all over you any more!!!!

  389.  #389Brenda on October 14, 2010 at 9:51 am


    RE: #395 – What is the FE experiment?

  390.  #390Senior Lady Vibe on October 14, 2010 at 9:58 am


    Female ejaculation?


  391.  #391Brenda on October 14, 2010 at 10:05 am

    Aha! 😛 Cool, Tinque! Did you ever try for a trigasm?

  392.  #392Meemee on October 14, 2010 at 10:10 am

    Re: #401
    Thanks. You are right. He needs some serious boundaries set. No doubt.
    In the last last couple of weeks I was able to set some boundaries for myself, like what I will do and what I will not do no matter how vulnerable I feel. But I think I am so used to behaving nice to him and tolerating his “boy” behavior (true, it is a pattern that I set) and he used to enjoy being nice to.
    Today when this happened, I was trying to hold on to my boundaries. I didnt even have the mental strength to set bundaries for him. That is somthing I have never done. That is new. The very newness of it makes me feel worried.
    Much love

  393.  #393Senior Lady Vibe on October 14, 2010 at 10:32 am

    @410 Brenda & Meemee

    Rori’s post on this subject is so “right on.” I love it! Brenda, I believe it was you who put up the link again, thank you for that. I’ve been re-reading it often.

    I noticed the original post date was in 2009 so maybe many of the sirens haven’t seen it! Here it is again, in all its “fabulosity”–is that word? “lol”

    “Don’t Let Go, Don’t Resolve, Forget Closure and Stay On Your Horse”

    [I ESPECIALLY LIKE THIS PART, heeheehee]==>”…And it doesn’t mean you have to be especially nice to him, or welcoming, or reasonable….”
    ~ (Tuesday, 23 June 2009 @ 3:39pm)



  394.  #394Brenda on October 14, 2010 at 10:34 am


    I do understand. Practice being a “bitch” on me if ya want! What I mean is, lean hard on this blog! Rori encourages us to try out new relational skills here, to break out of our comfort zone. I used to be “nice”, too, and I still tend to be. But I’ve been abused so much that when someone starts stepping on my toes, I let them know it! The reason it’s not rude is because the other person is being rude. All you are doing is setting and enforcing your boundaries! I think it’s fantastic that you are getting out of there, and in such a reputable, admirable way!!! I hope you are so proud of yourself!

    In the thread on “Let Your Squeeky Voice Comment”, Rori said if you want, even create a new screen name for on here. Then you can get a feel for using a new voice, a firmer one, and get more accustomed to it!

    I am finding my relational skills developing tremendously on here! Even when I don’t like what people say in response (or reaction!) to me sometimes, I learn from it. I learn what triggers people. I learn their limiting beliefs…MY limiting beliefs. I hear voices from their past…I hear voices from MY past. I learn conflict resolution, and I learn to set and hold boundaries.

    You can also practice in your every day world. If a stranger in a crowded place is in your personal space, rather than just shooting them a dirty look, you can practice what you would say to the man at work. When someone in a restaurant looks over your shoulder to see what you’re reading, tell them as if it’s him. Then when he bounds into your office the next time, you will feel more confident and ready to hold your own space.

    You are really doing fantastic, and your life is getting better and better!! He missed out!

  395.  #395Brenda on October 14, 2010 at 10:36 am


    RE: 406 – Guess you mean #401 – 410 hasn’t been written yet! I was saving that one for YOU to write! LOL! 😆

  396.  #396Senior Lady Vibe on October 14, 2010 at 10:54 am

    @408: Brenda says:

    RE: 406 – Guess you mean #401 – 410 hasn’t been written yet! I was saving that one for YOU to write! LOL!

    I must’ve been having a “me-gasm.” 😆

    Nothing physical, I just go along doing things for myself and exploring some possibilities and then I get all excited and feel love for myself. Joy!


  397.  #397Brenda on October 14, 2010 at 11:05 am


    LOL! Now you can reference #410! 😆

  398.  #398life_is_too_short_to... on October 14, 2010 at 11:08 am

    400. Denise

    Sounds like a perfect evening! So happy for you!

  399.  #399Meemee on October 14, 2010 at 11:08 am

    Dear SLV,
    Thanks for posting the link on the Closure post. I cant agree more on what Rori says.
    There is something which particularly struck me- “no matter what you say, if you respond he thinks the friendship is on”. This is precisely where I am- no matter what I say, I do, if I respond he thinks the friendship is on. I feel agitated beyond limits when I think of that. At times I feel like confronting him, catching him by his collar and yell at him “there is nothing on between us. we are not friends. I am not sleeping with you anymore”. Then I get frightened of that idea- because that act will give him so much centrality. Then I feel like telling him “Man, you might not have noticed, but I stopped everything a couple of weeks back”. Again, the same problem- it is all about him again.
    Moving ahead riding one’s own horse is a fabulous idea- but I cant bear the thought that all this while he is thinking that friendship is on.

  400.  #400tinque on October 14, 2010 at 11:15 am

    yep SLV has it right, and yes it was cool. I lost count of the gasms not that I cared or was keeping count. maybe eleventy seventy?

  401.  #401AmberS on October 14, 2010 at 11:29 am

    Hi SLV!

    The tags for html use the characters above the comma and the period.

    I’m enjoying your sense of humor 🙂 I feel smiling when I read your posts 🙂

    Now I’d better make sure I got that code bit right… LOL

  402.  #402Nikita on October 14, 2010 at 11:36 am


    I think you are definitely better….I remember us and your friend BEGGING you to go out….and now you are demanding to be taken out properly by a REAL man…it is very cute to see all of your righteous anger flowing out like hot lava…..it feels intense sometimes but as I have followed the story of B, I feel more understanding of your process….you have your own pretty place now……and financially you have made room for a man to pamper you…to be at least as good of a provider/earner as you are…..I see boundaries and a new standard…..and maybe B has grown too?…… he has manned up in some ways by not having you to lean on?

  403.  #403Meemee on October 14, 2010 at 11:40 am

    I feel the intensity and the depth of your comment!! I admire you for being an intense person.

    I am happy that I am doing exceptionally good, I feel proud that I am doing things I never thought I would do. But you know- there is something which REALLY intrigues me now. When I do something that makes myself happy, when I write my feelingd down and feel relived, when I go to bed, when I stand on the office balcony enjoying my cigarrette, when I do everything that feels liberating, a thought comes to my mind automatically and worries me- the thought of talking to him one day about why I did what I did and what I felt and etc. We might never have such a talk- but I worry myself over this thought so much so that I cant make out at times if this is my worry or if this is my wish. The thought has become so obsessive that the line between worry and wish is being blurred.
    Is this worry/wish what Rori calls closure?

  404.  #404Brenda on October 14, 2010 at 11:52 am


    RE: #412 – You said, ““there is nothing on between us. we are not friends. I am not sleeping with you anymore”. Then I get frightened of that idea- because that act will give him so much centrality. Then I feel like telling him “Man, you might not have noticed, but I stopped everything a couple of weeks back”. Again, the same problem- it is all about him again.”

    I don’t see that as all about him. I see that as setting boundaries. If I were in your position, I would say:

    I don’t want anything to do with you. I don’t want to talk to you or you talk to me unless it’s absolutely necessary.”

    Those are “Don’t Want” statements, and when you are dealing with a toxic man, that is perfectly acceptable and encouraged. Boundaries.

  405.  #405Brenda on October 14, 2010 at 11:57 am


    RE: #416 – You are welcome, and thank you!

    You mean you fear you might regret removing him from your life? I recomend the book, “Men Who Hate Women and the Women Who Love Them”. Maybe you are so used to taking crumbs and being abused and neglected (which is abuse) that it feels normal to you? How did the men in your childhood treat you? Did you feel respected and esteemed?

    When I read this book years ago, it totally struck a chord with me. I am learning to not take crumbs.

    I assure you, from all you’ve told us, this man is toxic. When you meet a man who treats you like royalty, and you will, you will sigh with relief, “Whew, am I glad I didn’t waste any more of my precious self on that toxic man!! I feel transported to a cloud with my new man!”

  406.  #406jacqueline on October 14, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    An open letter shouting – at everyone who does not address the fact that I’m male, dead, shut off from source and cold – that in allowing that in your space, you allow it in YOU!

    Stay triggered, my friends!

    Hi! – I write what I feel – don’t get throwing insults, I truly feel that way – about Lucy and that girl – however, if I were to throw insults, can you imagine? I mean, since I’m not even a man, I’m dead closed off from the light and less than that – oh, and I’m (dead) and “cold.”
    Puhleeze. And, hey it’s totally OKAY for everyone to read that and let it go? I’d be morally outraged for anyone on there that that was written about.

    Rori encourages me, has asked me before NOT to leave – but at this point why would I stay. That’s not really a question, it just points to how stupid the forum/board can be when people who hide behind aliases such as girl and the ever and always snarky Nikita are there – Nikita once wrote on a comment there when I asked for help – “Whatever.”

    Whatever indeed. Whatever it is I need to find women who are also verbal, highly functioning and achieving goals. Etc. And I don’t want to be famous, so maybe Rori doesn’t get me either.

    But if you notice – look at how many people are gone from there – and I should know I’ve got the emails from them. The environment is TOXIC if you don’t fit in.

    And Lucy bothers me because she never can take a stand – like oh, it’s J, oh, it’s LP, oh, you amuse me – but you did hurt me once, even though I never said so…which she didn’t. and on and on and on….

    I could not be friends with someone who has no opinion or doesn’t have the guts to say her opinion. And how many times is she on there saying she’s HURT?

    I SHOULD GET TO BE HURT!! My God/dess!!

    Check out this forward excerpt and then I’m going to quit defending myself to anyone –


    So, since the only way this works for people is if I’m contrite, forgiving, and less than anyone else – ugh, why would I even want to be there?

    I hope it moves you into a very good place in life and you get a lot of return for your efforts and that all goes very very well.

    Take care and oh! I’d say with LOVE but apparently, I don’t have any to give. (how sad – for those who choose ignorance of humanity)

    I will soon be writing about how the anonynimity of the Internet allows for some very ugly and nasty personalities to achieve full expression while never having to be held accountable.


  407.  #407Nikita on October 14, 2010 at 12:02 pm


    the thought of talking to him one day about why I did what I did and what I felt and etc. We might never have such a talk- but I worry myself over this thought so much so that I cant make out at times if this is my worry or if this is my wish. The thought has become so obsessive that the line between worry and wish is being blurred.
    Is this worry/wish what Rori calls closure?

    You do not need to explain anything….. wanting to explain……maybe is a wish to enforce a new becoming…maybe this is your fantasy life……maybe this is your inner dialogue you need now….like a coping mechanism to gain and solidify your new perspective……I like to see you as non-confrontational……he is smart 😉 he will know why you are saying “no more” by the actions of your heart…..
    what is the status of you getting the e-book Rori offers?, are we still waiting until next month?

    I am super proud of you and thank you for keeping us posted 🙂

  408.  #408Lorelei on October 14, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Renee – re number 387

    So sorry for the misunderstanding – I wasn’t clear enough. All I meant about being glad you got out, was being glad you left during the night, as that’s what your feelings/instincts were telling you. I didn’t mean anything else, and I’m sorry if it seemed to imply something else.

    I do know what the pain of uncertainty feels like, and it’s often worse than the knowing, whichever way the knowing leads. Hugs to you as you sense what is happening. All your posts here feel and sound so in tune, that I feel sure that you are going to be able to stay grounded, and honor your deepest feelings and deepest truths, as he figures out what he wants.

  409.  #409Nikita on October 14, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    I feel weird….J seems to be insisting she asked me for help……but that is not true…..these are the posts where I, “the ever snarky nikita” (says Jaqueline), responded to her question with whatever….. I do not see a question mark(?) anywhere in her post.

    202: Nikita says:

    Ick I do not want to hear about his Feelngs. I want results!!!!! I want action!!!!

    I feel angry listening to a man’s feelings because I feel helpless….

    Wednesday, 6 October 2010 @ 12:07pm

    203: Jacqueline says:

    oooh, Nikita – I think that’s what Rori really meant when she said the if we put aside our judgements what can we learn. For me, when they get down to talking abou their feelings – they are at their most open, vulnerable and falling in love moments.

    Might not feel good, but it produces results absolutely!


    Wednesday, 6 October 2010 @ 2:36pm

    204: Nikita says:


    Wednesday, 6 October 2010 @ 2:38pm

  410.  #410Nikita on October 14, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    snark·y (snärk)
    adj. snark·i·er, snark·i·est Slang
    1. Rudely sarcastic or disrespectful; snide.
    2. Irritable or short-tempered; irascible.
    [From dialectal snark, to nag, from snark, snork, to snore, snort, from Dutch and Low German snorken, of imitative origin.]
    snarki·ly adv.
    The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
    snarky [ˈsnɒːkɪ]
    Informal unpleasant and scornful
    [from sarcastic + nasty]
    Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

    Maybe Jaqueline is the “snarky” one…..

  411.  #411Nikita on October 14, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    in fact….
    after reading the posts…..

    it appears to me that Jaqueline was trying to “help…or

    advise,coerce, convince, persuade,enlighten,

    explain,and or educate me”,
    (the ever snarky nikita)…..
    not the other way around……

  412.  #412Meemee on October 14, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    I don’t mean I fear that I regret by removing him from my life. Let me see if I can put it down in a better way.
    I am working hard on those things that make me happy and I feel really really good taking care of myself. But I had ended my “relationship” with him abruptly. That makes me feel unsettled. So every now and then I feel this urge to explain, explain and explain. But I don’t want to give in to that urge. Deep in my mind I know I don’t owe him any explanation. But that urge is there. I feel the urge, I resist the urge.
    And, I really cant think of any other man treating me without respect to this degree. But, really, I don’t know. I might have tolerated things which I never thought as abuse, thinking that these are normal. Before talking to you people I did not even know that neglect is a form of abuse, that invalidating my feelings is abuse.

  413.  #413Nikita on October 14, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Take that!!!, “victim” / “poor me” limiting belief. Your unempowered “victim” beliefs are no longer welcome around these parts……scram!!!!

    Only empowering beliefs will be welcome….. all unempowering limiting beliefs will be incinerated….

    Her Majesty,
    Priestess Fire Starter,
    Her Graciousness

  414.  #414Girl on October 14, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    Hi jacqueline, feeling violent again. Not sure how to address it. And I don’t even care. so I guess what I’m trying to say is…


    Oooh I feel like fighting and name calling!

  415.  #415Simply Shannon on October 14, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Jacqueline, I don’t want to be shouted at. I’m sensing you are incredibly frustrated and feeling unheard?

    You are not a male.
    You are not cold.
    You are not cut off from the source.
    You are not snarky.

    I believe those things, and it didn’t once occur to me that you were any of those things. Do you believe those things? I feel really confused and surprised by that… but that’s MY issue.

    What is it that you want here? I’m asking this as gently as I can while dealing with my discomfort at the shouting and tone. Can we talk? No shouting please.

  416.  #416AmberS on October 14, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    Sienna, re#368

    Sometimes we attract what we fear the most. I’ve very much experienced this in my life. I attract the things that will bring my hurts to the surface and to my attention. Then I can heal.

    I had serious fear issues with predatory men based on a previous experience. I used to tell that story, but now that I’m healed I no longer need to use my past to explain my present. And I no longer attract predatory men. So the results are twofold.

    In the ‘universal’ view, I have to accept that if we are all one, yes, those people are a part of me. But if I start in on that this post would be miles long….

  417.  #417Nikita on October 14, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    I feel annoyed….I have a trigger….people that “say goodbye” and insist they are leaving…..but NEVER ACTUALLY LEAVE. My best friend does this …..she says oh I really have to go….I have to wake up early in the morning…..I feel like…”GO”……or stop talking about it…….Tell me how late you want to hang and I will be happy to keep track of the time for you so we can both respect your time boundary….but no…..my bff will just keep saying…alright, i have to after this….and she will pout about the time….and hem and haw…..and it so annoying……Set a boundary! Set a time and stick to it!!!! it has been getting better….but now I just ask her her schedule…and I control the time…..before she can go into that “I’m gonna leave”mode 15 times before she shuts up and actually leaves……

  418.  #418Girl on October 14, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    I feel a little guilty about dismissing Jacqueline with a whatever. Even though, I really want to dismiss her. I do that a lot with people I find irritating. I just did it with D – I felt like he was coming to me with some agenda, and I dumped him for it. I feel a little sad about the end of the relationship, but I feel ZERO interest in dealing with pressure.

    And Jacqueline, I rarely finish reading your posts because I have that feeling of someone coming at me with a bunch of noise, and I don’t feel like receiving it. I feel like shutting you out. I realize there is a human in there, and I would probably feel bad if I got a sense of what’s actually going on with you. I’m not sure how to describe how I feel about your tone – I don’t think you seem “dead” – to me your tone seems all thinky but emotionally fueled. So, it’s not manly in a logical reasonable way. It’s not feminine in a feeling way. It’s emotionally fueled thoughts that I perceive to be convoluted and very difficult to hear. I feel all wound up reading your words.
    When I wrote the comment way above about “the construct” I perceive instead of the real you, I was mostly venting. Cause first I wrote, I feel like strangling Jacqueline – which definitely didn’t seem like an appropriate feeling message. So then I tried to sort out what I was feeling in a way that wasn’t specific to you, but you’re right – I was responding your post. I’m sure I’m not communicating with you in the best possible way, and I’m beginning to finally feel grateful for the trigger.

  419.  #419Girl on October 14, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    Nikita – thanks for sharing that video 🙂

  420.  #420Nikita on October 14, 2010 at 1:04 pm


    My pleasure.


  421.  #421AmberS on October 14, 2010 at 1:11 pm


    Thank you for your 431. I really felt a WOW moment there for me. I appreciate you taking the time to explain what you meant in your earlier post. I know I don’t need to understand you, but when I do I feel SMARTER, or WISER or MORE SOMETHING. More on my way to being a better me.

  422.  #422Nikita on October 14, 2010 at 1:14 pm


    did you check out the song as well?
    maybe you’d like it 🙂 ?


    it is a feeling message for me …lol

  423.  #423Senior Lady Vibe on October 14, 2010 at 1:18 pm


    @414: AmberS says:
    “Hi SLV!
    The tags for html use the characters above the comma and the period.”

    Hi! I’ve been sitting here trying to decipher the above…then it dawned on me…the brackets? I’m used to html curvies: (( )) or BML squares [[ ]]

    I’ll try the carets now <> :

    “I’m enjoying your sense of humor I feel smiling when I read your posts ”

    Thank you, Amber. I try to have fun every day doing simple things. I’m continuing on my way–while weaning myself from an imaginary relationship and obsession with guy-who-reminds-me-of-a-squirrel.

    I’m older and I’ve experienced that some things take time to wear off and some things–Oh, the horror–they never wear off completely,…so, no point in waiting for a time in the future to be happy. 😆

    Thanks for the coding tip. I hope it worked; if not I’ll keep trying. 😀


  424.  #424BarbinOz on October 14, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    #317 SLV

    Yes its hard to keep up isn’t it? Sometimes I miss whole threads and I do spend far TOO much time on here, but I am looking at it like this is my education/college degree, there is so much stuff here that I never learnt growning up. 🙂

  425.  #425BarbinOz on October 14, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    #314 Katarina

    Great post K, thank you, maybe it’s because I am just not attracting hot sexy guys like your SG 🙁 and I feel unenthusiastic about the whole CD scene. Like Lucy said somewhere she is really only attracted to the odd man once in a blue moon, it’s like that for me too……

  426.  #426BarbinOz on October 14, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    #301 Life

    Wow a man who wants what the Notebook has is my kind of guy 😀

  427.  #427Senior Lady Vibe on October 14, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    437: BarbinOz says:
    “Yes its hard to keep up isn’t it? Sometimes I miss whole threads and I do spend far TOO much time on here, but I am looking at it like this is my education/college degree, there is so much stuff here that I never learnt growning up. “

    Yes! I find myself thinking what about the people who don’t have their own offices…if they are “at work” how do they get their work done?

    I guess I’m not getting stuff done either…but, since I consider my personal projects “my projects” then i’m scouting for creating some “dating campaigns” — that’s what I’m calling them for now.

    I’ve been looking at CL ads. It’s wild! I registered at okcupid, with only the barest of details and no photo and already I’m getting e-mails! about guys looking for “deep love” LTR. This is crazy! They must be copy-and-paste responses. I’m not even going to reply.

    When I first saw them I felt a little pressured. ;shock: Not sure why, just did.


  428.  #428Senior Lady Vibe on October 14, 2010 at 2:08 pm


    little emoticon fail…

    When I first saw them I felt a little pressured. 😯 Not sure why, just did.

  429.  #429BarbinOz on October 14, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    #339 Sirens Homes

    Well this is really funny but my gf told me a while ago that I have such feminine, pretty things around me (and they are) and she calls my bedroom the boudoir ha ha!!

    But I was always living in my masculine energy as I found out when I first found Rori, so I wonder why my “stuff” is/was girly and I am not, well I should say I am learning to be……maybe I wanted to be but didn’t know how?

    The only time I have ever felt REALLY girly was when I was REALLY slim and wow just thinking about this now is making me tear up, I felt scared??

  430.  #430BarbinOz on October 14, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    I am scared of men

    Yes I am

    Not in the work situation because you know I am using my male energy there…..


    I am scared of men

  431.  #431Senior Lady Vibe on October 14, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    339: knocksoftly says:


    Yeah, a “me-gasm.” 😆 Fun!

  432.  #432Brenda on October 14, 2010 at 2:17 pm


    RE: #425 – You are right, you don’t need to explain anything to him. If he is talking to you or coming in your office, and you don’t want him to, simply state that. I don’t want you to.

  433.  #433BarbinOz on October 14, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    I feel really girly and feminine when I am in love

    I haven’t felt like that for a long time

    I want to feel like that again…….

  434.  #434BarbinOz on October 14, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    I think I need to love myself more

    I am going to find a way to do that……

  435.  #435BarbinOz on October 14, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    #356 Sienna

    Interesting post about the clutter.

    My handbag (purse:)) must weigh the same as a housebrick, I don’t know why I have SO MUCH STUFF in there and my purse (wallet :)) is full of bits of paper and business cards and old lottery tickets…….

    De clutter coming up and no your post wasn’t preachy at all!! Thank you

  436.  #436AmberS on October 14, 2010 at 2:23 pm


    You said “Maybe Jaqueline is the “snarky” one…..”

    I read this as you don’t want to be the snarky one. Am I right? If I’m not right, can you tell me what it means?

    I know this is challenging.

    You also said “in fact….after reading the posts…..
    it appears to me that Jaqueline was trying to “help…or

    advise,coerce, convince, persuade,enlighten,

    explain,and or educate me”,
    (the ever snarky nikita)…..
    not the other way around……”

    And when I read this I hear that you are angry that you are saying this as an accusation. And that you want to be right.

    Maybe you both feel sh*tty?

    I know that it feels icky to me to have something forced on me. And I could see interpreting her post as that.

    Except when I give her a different motive I come up with a different meaning.

    If I take her post as sharing something that worked in her life and that has benefited her when she was in your position, then she’s doing what we do here on the board and trying to be helpful.

    You have every right to vent about not wanting to hear feelings from your guy. She has every right to share what in Rori’s advice works for her.

    If I posted to you when you were frustrated by something with the intent of being helpful and hopeful and you wrote “whatever” I would not like that at all. I would take it to mean “you don’t know sh*t and you’re not worth my time or the effort to post a response” when it could very well just mean “I’m in my feelings and don’t want to interact with anyone” or any number of other meanings.

    It may be very pollyanna of me, but I see misunderstanding going on here because we use the wrong words or because we each assign a meaning or an intent or a motive.

    Why do I care? Why am I posting this knowing it may have the opposite effect of what I’m hoping for?

    Because to assume that you’ll attack me in response is silly. You’re a grown woman who wants to be supported and loved on your way to wherever it is you want to go.

    That’s what I want too.

    And I think that’s what Jacqueline was here for as well.

  437.  #437Katarina Phang on October 14, 2010 at 2:24 pm


    “I feel really girly and feminine when I am in love

    I haven’t felt like that for a long time

    I want to feel like that again…….”

    I’m feeling exactly that. It’s intoxicating. It’s sugar high. He’s crazy about my womanness. He’s making me feel so hot and sexy and vice versa.