He Doesn’t Want You To Date Other Men – But He’s Living Day To Day…

Untitled design (14)

Katie left a comment here that I thought would be helpful – the man who want’s you all to himself but is offering only “boyfriend/girlfriend” right now:

“Rori, Thanks so much for this blog and your tools! I am currently involved with a man (six months into the relationship) and he has asked for sexual exclusivity and well as asked that we both wear rings he bought. (The rings are nothing fancy, just nice silver rings.)

I have asked where he stands on the issue of future plans such as marriage and he says he is “living day to day and trying to get by” but also tells me he would like to “see us get together in the future” and that marriage is a possibility.

It is so confusing to me.

Do I go with this or do I Circular Date? (he has told me that he will not see me if I see anyone else.) I don’t know what to do but I do know I do not want to be strung along forever or end up as a girlfriend with benefits indefinitely. Katie”

My answer:

Katie, You don’t say how old you are, and that makes a difference. If you and he are in college, or in your early twenties, and you’re not anywhere near your threshold for being serious about “marriage,” you’ll want to go with the more experimental options, up to a time limit of your own choosing – but making sure you are always sharing with him exactly how you feel, and not just “going along.”

Here are your options:

1.  Basically the “No Girlfriend” speech (If you’re ready to be married in your life, and you’ve been Circular Dating or wanted to do it to help yourself get emotionally in the best place to encounter Mr. Right):”It feels great to be with you…and I’m not looking to be a girlfriend, I’m looking to be married, and I feel a bit uncomfortable shutting down all my options unless marriage is sort of on the table…”

(By the way, I’ve heard this before – a man who says will not date you if you are “seeing someone else.” This scares you into compliance – it works most of the time.)

The only claim a man can possibly justify along with his “living day to day” plan, is the worry that you will be sexually involved with another man, and not being willing to tolerate that.

Reassure him.

However – how any man can get upset by you having lunch with another man, or coffee with another man, or flirting with another man because you will not commit yourself to him without what you want – and I hear that what you want is marriage – is beyond my ability to tolerate.

I really don’t care if he “doesn’t want to date you because you will feel free to have lunch with another man.”  Because he isn’t offering anything.

Now – that said – go ahead and experiment:

2. The – “Yes…and…” speech WITHOUT the ring: “I feel torn. It would feel great to be exclusive with you and to wear your ring…and I feel a bit uncomfortable because it feels kind of open-ended, and I’m not looking to be a girlfriend, I’m looking to be married.  I don’t want to push you, so it’s important to know it’s okay to keep talking about this, and whether or not I should be keeping my options open…”

Go ahead and say you’ll try not dating other men (if he’s talking about lunch and coffee – you can ask him) for a few months and see how that works, but you don’t want to wear a ring unless it’s an engagement ring.


3. Take the ring. Smile.  Be happy, and see how you do over the next few weeks or months.  If things are great and moving along, and you can keep your head about you and hang onto yourself – great.  And if not, if you find yourself feeling tense and waiting for him to call – then you have something to talk about with him, which will take things deeper, too.

As long as you set a time limit for yourself (without making an ultimatum to him) and don’t go on forever with the exclusivity – holding out hope and pining –  and as long as you know how to say the Truth to him – you’ll be fine.

4. The Truth. I saved this for last, but consider it FIRST.  and – you’ve already got the basics of the speech down…

I don’t know what to do but I do know I do not want to be strung along forever or end up as a girlfriend with benefits indefinitely.

This goes just fine with ANY of the other 3 options – But…we have to tweak it. Here’s the TRICK:

There is no reason to suspect, at this moment, that he’s “stringing you along.”  The huge mistake we women make is in taking our old baggage from an old relationship into what’s happening now with a man.

We assume he’s going to do the same crummy thing the last guy’s did.

So when you’re sharing what you DON’T WANT – I do know I do not want to be strung along forever or end up as a girlfriend with benefits indefinitely – how can you do it so he doesn’t pick up fear, accusation, old baggage that just the SOUND of some of those words bring up?

Try this:

“I feel very excited about this, the rings are beautiful, I feel amazing…and I feel concerned, too. I feel a bit uncomfortable with the open-ended-ness you’re saying…about not knowing how you feel about me and marriage…and I don’t want to be pushing you or always talking about it.  There are words like ‘strung along’ and ‘friends with benefits’ that keep coming up for me, and I know you wouldn’t ever intentionally hurt me – and yet I feel like I need to be protective of myself.  Is this something we can keep talking about, so that I feel comfortable?  What do you think?”

In your own words, of course…

This is a learning experience above all else, and an experiment in trusting yourself, and in trying things out so you can find out how you really are, how you really feel, and learn to express yourself.

Katie, let me know what happens!

Love, Rori

Posted in


  1.  #1ann on April 20, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    on mobile want to be able to read from email.

  2.  #2Maria on April 20, 2009 at 11:16 pm

    l have this feeling, that when a man does “string you along” he will never reveal it….am l right or wrong?

  3.  #3Linmayu on April 21, 2009 at 12:22 am

    Maria, I don’t think any man has the power to string us along, unless we give it to them. If we hang on to our own hearts, we can’t be strung along; we’ll always have our own backs and be able to walk away.

  4.  #4Helen on April 21, 2009 at 6:47 am


    I am wondering about something –

    A few times in my life I have been in an exclusive relationship with a guy – and then something happens and I get seriously hurt – generally I chase men and do everything that is not going to get me what I want to experience…I can see this clearly now – exp. since discovering Roris work. So I end up hurt – and then I PULL AWAY in a major way and shut down from the guy I am with. 4 times now in a row this has ended in a marraige proposal – so here is my question:

    By this point I don’t want to get married to the guy – I can sense too that although they want me to say yes, they also only propose because they kind of know I am going to say no – or they just feel my withdrawal and know they have to do something quick and drastic to get my attention again. Each time I have said no – and actually been exceptionally bitchy about it – which does not leave me feeling very good about myself. The last time was the worst as I really liked the guy when we were together(but I was seriously hurt by him) and I bitched to him in an unbelievable way about the ring being cheap and not for me…I truly felt terrible about this as soon as I had opened my mouth…whatever I feel I really do not want to be a snobby bitch – which is what it felt like I was being…

    It feels like it is all very well wanting the ring – and I want the ring – I want to get married and be in a commited relationship.

    But what if we get a proposal from someone we either no longer want to be with – or someone we are dating but do not want to marry?

    Any thoughts??


  5.  #5Rori Raye on April 21, 2009 at 10:40 am

    Maria – I’ll talk about decent men here – just like us, these men hope lightening will strike. If they like us, and enjoy our company, they may “hope” they will fall in love and get that “feeling” they want. They may not MEAN to string us along. They may simply be content and usually fairly honest about that. They like having a “girlfriend.” Sometimes they just don’t know. That’s why it’s up to us to state what we don’t want, to keep track of our own feelings, and not to rely on them for more information than they can give. This is what keeps us from investing in a man too soon, and that keeps the anger from overtaking everything. Love, Rori

  6.  #6Daria on April 21, 2009 at 12:09 pm

    Does anyone have trouble feeling stuff in their pelvis?

    I am trying to do the e-letter tool of sending the feeling down, but somehow the feeling “dissipates” before it gets to my pelvis. My pelvis feels like this dark, unknown fluid territory. I have a hard time getting stuff in there… it feels like tryna send it into a dark lake in a cave.

    I also would have trouble before when Rori says expand your vagina sideways. I THink about expanding it sideways, and what i feel is actually tension in my NOSE bridge. In fact a lot of times when I try to feel stuff in my pelvis I instead get an immediate and intense tightness somewhere in my forehead or nose or face. I lose the focus on the pelvis because the face feeling is so much more SHARP.


    Is something stuck and if so how do I realease it?

  7.  #7Robin on April 21, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    Hi Helen!

    I was actually wondering the same thing yesterday, what if you’re circular dating, Guy A asks you to marry him, but you really want Guy B to ask you, or you are not sure if you should say yes or wait to see who else shows up.

    Feels to me like intuition would be really important. I guess if you have to wonder if you’re ‘settling’, then maybe you are? I wonder how our fear of intimacy would show up in that moment also…

  8.  #8Linda on April 21, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    Hello again I am not sure this comment belongs on this post but here goes anyway.

    In my quest to circular date I hit pay dirt I I think, or maybe just dirt. All I know is that a relationship with this guy is proving to be quite a roller coaster. I am learning and practicing all kinds of things, leaning back.. feeling messages.. strong surrender…but I want this ride to stop. It is turning into drama. I think I am being strung along or I am letting myself be. Here is my senerio.

    I met him on a dating website. We clicked in email and even more when we met. Since we met in February he has a repetive pattern. Warm, forward, inviting… then when I respond warmly… he pulls back becomes distant, non communicative and then it starts all over again. It has happened now 3 times. First he likes me, want me to be his girlfriend. Then retreats. Says he wants to be friends only, “that its not all there for him with me”,..then a letter that says it is a physical thing with me. I guess I dont line up with the kind of “look” he wants in a partner. When you read the email I could see it was ovbiously written by a conflicted confused man. One that likes everything about me is curious about me yet is stuck with his admittidly shallow requirement for some outward beauty that I dont seem to possess. We had dinner the night I got the rejection email. I was not offended, I am who I am and I am NOT an unattractive woman. He is intitled to his opionion… I approached him as a friend, telling him the truth wht I saw about his attitudes, discussed things that had transpired between us and the pattern. Even shared a dream that he knew what meant. I did not ask for a relationship, I was not sad… told him I hoped he finally found what has eluded him all his life. I told him I had been seeing others just like he had been doing…. he was surprised by it, like he did not suppose I would have done that. Maybe that is because I never minced words about how I felt about him, I always was honest, played no games. Maybe it is because I have gotten in touch with myself and who I am. I am confident in what I want.. who I want and that I want it soon. Before I knew it he was looking at me… like he did when we first met… reaching for my hand.. confessing he knew it was time he trust me and stop the wrestling and allow his heart to rest with mine. Then he said it… “I love you” hmmmm ! I was shocked! We had a conversation 2 days ago about where he is going to live..(has to move soon)… he asked me if I wanted a “roommate”? I told him truthfully Yes but… I was not willing to live with anyone again because it was a compromise of my beliefs. I am unwilling to temporarily try something at the expense of my integrity and loose respect of my children and his children. He said he understood and agreed. I felt like I was guiding him by me standing strong for my goals and convictions. He brought up the subject of marriage, meeting each others children…talk of seizing opportunity etc…that the time is now….it was all going well getting sooo close to where we should be yet …..he retreats again today. I know why, I saw her text messages on his phone. I know her name, could call the number…. but I wont. If he wants a life with me it will be his decision. My energy is out of there again.

    Maybe I am allowing myself to be strung along. But not totally. I am learning about myself. I have become more independant while staying open and inviting. I was tempted to say, “hey, lets move in together and we will figure it out as we go” but I didn’t. That was the old “got have a relationship at any cost” me. I did not compromise myself. Instead I said “marry me” and he chuckled and said.. hey I thought I was supposed to ask that” I giggled and said mmmm maybe ! He knows I dont want to just be his girlfriend, and I am not waiting for him to notice me or settle for me. He knows that because of my stance on living together… If I have sex with him it is because chose to do it not as a means to gain a committment from him.

    I am a spiritual, soft, giving, strong, confident, beautiful sexy woman. I am more so everyday. He knows what it will take to claim me….he really sees my value, and that is the very reason he cant dismiss me. He is emotionally tied in some ways to me. That is why he cant look at me for long without a boyish smile taking over his entire being. He can pursue this other woman.. if he chooses her then it is what it is. I cant worry about that because that robs me of my confidence. I WILL NEVER APPROACH HIM OR any RELATIONSHIP FROM A PLACE OF FEAR. Fear of rejection gives others power over us. I have learned that. It also opens the door for them to see us as self devaluing. I have come out of that pit and will never return. I will not change myself in an unhealthy compromising way. This is one of my last steps for promotion and healing in my life. I will not change my course or slide into a imaginary relationship to gain him at my expense.

    If he chooses her then that is his choice. If that is the case than he will not have the things he can share with me, he has yet to discover me in my entirety but he is curious about them. He has to decide if having me is worth the price he has to pay…There has been so much talk from him about what he/we want. His conflict will end and I again will get a call… He told me this morning he loved me… and then cancelled his dinner time with me tonight. I expected it… It is like I am an anchor and my standing still being soft, open, yet strong and uncompromised is a homing device. It is the pattern that has emerged.

    He was to come for dinner tonite, but he cancelled with another thin reason. I dont challange him or beg, I wont text him goodnite or tomorrow… I just express that I am sorry he could not join me and thanked him for helping me with the things he did yesterday… He will qualify himself for me if not then he wont be in my life. Staying true to yourself, your convictions, your words and course… this is how you dont get strung along. It is a daily learning process. And on top of all of that, I remain positive and speak good things and even him into my life.



  9.  #9Daria on April 21, 2009 at 6:23 pm

    Hi Linda, I feel concerned… I hear so much about HIM and very little about YOU and your feelings, (besides that you have been leaning back which is great) except in how they affect HIM.

    I feel glad and can FEEL your grace and softness when you speak about yourself and loving yourself.

    There is just so much about him… the feeling I get is that this is too much about “his business” and not so much about circular dating.

    Surely it doesn’t feel good when he’s running hot and cold?

  10.  #10Helen on April 22, 2009 at 1:39 am

    Robin – thanks yes I am wondering how we deal with this…if a man asks us to marry us who we are dating but we don’t want to marry them. I guess we are just honest –

    if it is with a man we don’t want to marry we could say…

    ” wow gee I feel surprised and touched that you would ask me to marry you. errm I don’t know how to respond…I guess I am not ready to say yes to your proposal until it feels really right for me. It doesn’t feel really right for me at this moment. What should we do about that?”

    would that be right…I don’t know??

    If it is with a guy we like but like in my case it has come on the back of being hurt – although I would like to add here I KNOW I would not have ended up hurt with any of these guys if I would have been using these tools, and not chasing the men first (or certainly much less hurt) something like –

    ” Wow I feel so touched that you have asked me to marry you. You know I am still feeling deeply hurt by all that happened between us. I need some space to feel all my feelings around your proposal and everything that has happened between us. What should we do about this?”

    Or something like that.

    Linda thankyou for sharing your story – I felt inspired by your willingness to change patterns of past behaviour and explore what is being expressed here.

    Daria – I feel warmed by your passion.

  11.  #11Tracy on April 22, 2009 at 2:15 am

    Today i feel that i made a breakthrough with expressing my feelings…
    I was having a conversation with my boss about a situation and expressed my feelings which in retro respect contradicted what he thought was the right thing to do……he was right but i am so glad i told him the truth,my truth instead of hiding behind it and agreeing with him and sitting on what i felt was okay…
    I feel that i am gaining ground on this and it feels great…
    I only wish i would do the same with this guy i do like…i feel that i have been hiding/stil continue to hide my true feelings and as a result of this whenever i see him around i get all tense up and i do try to regain my composure most of the time but its normally really hard…but i am not going to give up…i feel that i am gaining my strength back and i am discovering a new me and my confidence is growing bit by bit every day…


    I feel so inspired by your confidence and respect for yourself…..i am really working hard at trying to get to that point…especially when you said that if the guy chooses to be with someone else then you are conformfortable to move on and be true to yourself…that feels like a good place to be in and the confidence it brings with it for me is what i am trying hard to achieve…
    I do want to feel free of the need to seek a man to make me happy or fulfil my life….my life should be filled with me and i feel that a guy should only share with something good and wonderful i have already created for myself…..I do want a good and commited relationship but i need to work on myself and speak my feelings out…

  12.  #12Lin on April 22, 2009 at 7:28 am

    I do admire you for your self composer
    that you can maintain…. however inside your self has got to be a roller coaster ride from hell. How long has this been going on?

    He knows you know about the text you found in his phone? Do you feel he enjoys being the
    guy both women want.?… I know this is hard.
    ( and an understatement of hard) Did you ever cancel plans with him..? Take him off the stage
    and put your self on the stage.. !!! There are plenty of great guys looking for a women with her self so together as you are…. !! I see my self in you… and know I should do the same thing..!!
    I have brought him closer.. by doing this..
    my problem with him is his lip service is the best…. and the follow through is not there.
    only great dates.. and still no ring. although
    one is coming… any day now.? !! He is so ready.. to marry me.. wants it as much as I do.
    so he says…. I give him a dead line… and he has a excuse… when the day comes.. so I say
    ok very well… your just not ready and I am not waiting any longer.. and he begs and begs for another 2 weeks…I stand strong and say no.
    the next morning he calls.. and says.. he had night mares all night cause he is so afraid he lost me.. I cave in…. and so the roller coaster goes. We have been together for 5 years. He says… we are closer than ever. I stopped over doing in our relationship… which helps me from feeling angry.
    This man you are talking about… How long have you been dating him?

  13.  #13Chanel on April 22, 2009 at 9:34 am

    Wow Linda, that was very inspirational!

    I’m struggling with a friends with benefits situation. Logically it’s what fits into my life at the moment. There is a lot of fear though when I don’t hear from my friend.

    Your post has given me courage and strength, thank you!

  14.  #14Chanel on April 22, 2009 at 9:39 am

    Question for all of you:

    I’m going through a divorce right now and I’m not looking for marriage. I’m not ready to bring a new man into my daughter’s life at the moment.

    I *am* looking for love, companionship and affection.

    Has Rori written anything for women in my situation?

  15.  #15Daria on April 22, 2009 at 11:17 am

    I had a good feeling convo with a man that used to pursue me and then withdrew. We still talked occasionaly.

    I was feeling in a great mood and felt inspired to initiate contact online, then leaned back. (I do not feel attached to this man).

    I feel so surprised. It came out in the conversation that the reason he said that he had withdrew (I did not bring up his “withdrawing” or even realize that’s what it was – I simply assumed he wasn’t calling because he couldn’t dance) because of a way I had stated one of my boundaries:

    I had said: I Don’t Call Men

    seemingly in a dismissive and superior (bitchy) way. He thought it was disrespectful and felt really uncomfortable and submissive calling me assuming a whole big scenario around it about my not respecting him.

    He said he really liked me however he did not want to allow himself to be treated badly.

    We discussed this and my feelings (and his feelings and I asked him waht he thought) at length, and it turned out that were I to have said:

    I don’t feel comfortable calling… it would feel better to get a call from you…

    or I don’t Feel Comfortable calling men

    he found that fine and actually informed me that he has heard that often from women.

    I believe part of the weirdness here was because of my feeling insecure about this boundary (feeling like a bitch saying I don’t call men) which I haven’t fully embraced yet.

    As a side note we also had a cool interaction when I told him:

    I feel open to hearing what you think at any time… it felt bad feeling you withdraw… and I don’t want to tolerate that

    He felt really empassioned by this and told me how much he respected me and how he actually feels Glad that I am willing to listen to him because that feels to him like I CARE and the opposite of what he had built up himself to think.

    So my question is: is saying I DON”T CALL MEN cold and dismissive?

    I do not want to call men … or I don’t feel comfortable calling men… feel softer.

    Or did this just trigger this man on his own issues (and of course bring up how much he is able to dance).

    I also discussed with him reading much about the way I do dating in Rori’s site, and he thought most of it was cool except for the concept of Rules, like I don’t call men, I don’t drive to men, not because he didn’t think they were good ideas, but because he said hearing them made him feel compelled to rebell.

    Perhaps I am communicating my boundaries too much as “rules” ?

    What do you think?

  16.  #16Daria on April 22, 2009 at 11:20 am

    Chanel Rori’s tools are created for us to receive What We WANT in a relationship. Therefore they apply as much to a woman who wants marriage as to one who doesn’t.

  17.  #17Robin on April 22, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    Hey Daria!

    That was awesome!

    I definitely feel confident that the way you say something affects how its interpreted, so yeah, I have had the same thing, where what I say comes off harsher than I meant it to.

    I have started saying something good about how I feel as well in my interactions( that are true, of course 🙂 ), and that has been working pretty well, and it makes me feel like experimenting more with my interactions with men. For example, I will say, “wow, I feel really flattered, but I don’t feel comfortable giving you my number”, or “It feels so great talking with you, but I don’t feel comfortable calling men. I feel like Im chasing then, and I dont want to do that..”

    The cool thing I’ve noticed is that each time I can feel myself getting scared and wanting to make something up to not offend or hurt a guy , if I just say how I’m feeling, I get a little bit stronger inside, so the next time its that much easier…

  18.  #18heartbeat on April 22, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    Daria “I don’t feel comfortable calling men” feels softer to me.

    I resonate with Robin on the tone of voice issue – when my feelings don’t match my words I feel awkward. When another’s words don’t match their body language, I end up guessing, and it’s usually an old story that gets triggered.

  19.  #19Linda on April 22, 2009 at 4:34 pm

    Hi ladies

    I have come so far from where I first was when I found this site. I still have a long way to go too. If I say anthing that helps anyone then I am blessed by that.

    First yes it has been a roller coaster ride from hell for me.This has been going on since February… I have felt lots of feelings. Joy, excitement, happiness, dissapointment, sadness, anger, anxiety,fear confusion… through this last three month period. It is just that I have not let any of them control me for very long. I try my best to listen to my body and how it feels, then respond to it. If I am knocked off center by any of my feelings good or bad then I need to make adjustments. Inner peace is my goal. I have been a long time negative thinker. I have been working on turning it around. I used to have a problem with “self loathing”. Looked for others to validate me so I could feel good about myself….I had to come out of that place. My value does not hinge on whether I am loved or sought or someone elses opinion of me..Do I want that from someone YES.. but instead of that being my soul source., I Now paint myself in love and strength and I like myself now. The other was so self destructive and history kept repeating itself in my life. It was like I got exactly what my thought life was like.

    He does not know that I know about the other woman. I read the texts, there were several. She is not local, probably about an hour or 2 away. Maybe has a child at home, seems younger than I and a appears to a booty call. She drove to him… etc. I can tell he has been intimate with her by her comments. BUT… He does not need to know I know. I am just thankful for the information. I know the full picture now and can respond accordingly.

    As I said, I am still learning,perhaps I should not have been so available to him, I think that mindset was fueled by fear of him losing interest in me, something I am just now realizing as I type this…….so no I have not taken him “off stage” but am about to. I am not going to be as available to him, not because I am trying to manipulate him, make him miss me etc… but because I am less interested now. His requests will not take presidence over any plans I have from now on. If I am tired and he gets off work late and wants to come over he will get a “no I am really tired and feel I need to rest” (I get up M-F at 4 AM for work) This is new ground for me and a new acquired skill…. If he finds that he misses me then he gets a chance to think through it and respond to his feelings. Isnt that what we want anyway right?

    I almost felt like I was going down a wrong path, “friends with benefits” could have been around the corner if I had not caught myself. Shew…the full picture helps me with too.

    Here is my thought… If we (I ) value ourselves then others will value us. If we understand who we are and what we want and dont want in our lives we will be able to communicate it on many levels and therefore be understood. If I make my goal my own peace and respond to feelings quickly that that knock us off that center… then we are true to ourselves and captains of our journey. It frees me to be genuine, use feeling messages and be giving toward others. It builds my core and my confidence. Fear reaks havoc.. responding to situations because we are afraid of rejection or not having something met in us, can lead us to feeling desperate at times. That is not the desire of my life at all.I used to be driven by it…. We all have needs that are legitimate. Some are so strong they drive us to get them met in any way we can but there are good for us. There are genuine ways to get those needs in a healthy way.

    I know this about me. I have to be genuine and authentic at all times. I feel like a fake otherwise. My confidence has been hard found. I have cried rivers to get to this place and I feel that my foothold is constantly challanged. At any moment I feel I could fall into my old ways but I resist it.

    Here is my kicker….even though by all apparent indications this does not appear to be a good or favaorabale relationship or canidate for me… I have this uncanny feeling of the exact opposite. …. Because… No matter how hard he has triedn matter what his reasons… this guy CANT DISMISS ME from his life….Yes his behaviors upset me and triggered me at first, do I want something different? YES… will I have it absolutely. It is not time for me to load him up with my feeling messages yet. I have been learning to listen and watch and understand myself and him. Things that trigger me dont anymore. THey were things that needed to be fixed and dealt with in me… so it has actually been a good thing to be triggered…. It has all been good for me in reality….and It has actually been comical watching him bounce around all over the place and each time he does he lands closer to me than before….So last night I talked to a guy I have been out with 3 times for over an hour…it was a great conversation…we are going out sunday…My mental energy is not on this him or any of the stuff. I am thinking about sleep, not giving him another thought… and I get a text..simply saying “goodnight” He has never done that before…. so …he certainly was thinking about me ! LOL

    Hang in there ladies…. smiles and be positive…


  20.  #20Tracy on April 23, 2009 at 1:50 am

    What you’ve sed is beautiful and very aunthetic….i feel inspired….
    It realy made me look back at my own past self loath…and you are very right about how our thoughts actually influence our present situations…
    I feel that what realy matters as you said to value ourselves and look for validation within us…..
    “Do I want that from someone YES.. but instead of that being my soul source., I Now paint myself in love and strength and I like myself now”
    This i can resonate with………its too bad i could not find the words within myself to express it…i feel that this is my primary goal right now….to paint myself with love….I want the approval to come from me….it feels good validating that…
    I feel that i stil have a long way to go………..i am stil controlled by my feelings and i find myself,seeking approval from others and hiding my truself with the fear that if i don’t then i will loose out on love…
    I feel hope that i am gaining ground….i feel grateful for my situation however bad it is…..because from this experience i am learning to be stronger and more happy with myself………baby steps…
    Thanks Linda for helping me realize this…

  21.  #21DocK on April 23, 2009 at 6:21 am

    Tracy, Linda I feel very moved by what you have both expressed and grateful to you for sharing.

  22.  #22Linmayu on April 23, 2009 at 8:21 am

    Wow Linda, I love your patience and wisdom–“it is not time for me to load him up with my feeling messages yet.” I don’t have that at all. I want to bury a dude in feeling messages regardless of whether it’s time or whether he’s able to catch. Doing that hasn’t really done anything good for me…

  23.  #23Linda G on April 23, 2009 at 11:03 am

    Well, I just hung up the phone with a girlfriend of mine and I am so triggered! She just kicked out her husband two weeks ago, went online and had a date with what she feels is her complete and utter soulmate!
    PS I think I met this guy online, but he was involved with an EST sort of group and I found it a huge turn-off. Apparently, she went throught he samw program,but after one date, he calls every couple of hours, brings her chocolates, she gave him a birthday cake on their first date! She’s calling everybody, showing ebverybody their email connections and I’m so triggered!

  24.  #24DocK on April 23, 2009 at 11:43 am


    The touch-feely positive affirming new-agey “DocK” says, ‘Good for her. There’s more than enough of that to go around and someone else’s good never takes away from my own.’

    The other “DocK” (inner-city street brat) says, ‘Hmmmm…sets off my radar a bit of guys I have been with that really know how to turn on the charm but have proven to be the more toxic men of my past.’

    The truth really is darling, beautiful Linmayu that you are a Goddess and I believe you can and have the exact man and relationship you want to have and you are on your bridge and nothing and no one can knock you off of it.

  25.  #25DocK on April 23, 2009 at 11:43 am

    oops meant to say “can and WILL have” : )

  26.  #26DocK on April 23, 2009 at 12:03 pm

    Also, I am triggered by the term “soul mates.”

    I believe that soul mates come in many different forms in our relationships – could be someone I connect to in this blog forum – someone that is a family member that I (rightly or not) feel closest to – a friend, mentor, etc.

    I do believe that two people can come together for the most amazing, wonderful lifelong relationship and this is what most people think of as a soul mate but I don’t think that there is only one of these for each of us and if we don’t recognize it we’ve shot the wad on soul mate land so to speak.

    My close friend lost his partner of 19 years and I think the most difficult thing for him to consider is that someday he may have another wonderful relationship that will in no way tarnish the the one he had with his departed love and that this new love can be equally fantastic – albeit different.

    I also remember a woman in my circle met this guy that she thought was her soul mate and a psychic said he was her soul mate and I met him and didn’t like that I felt he was coming on to me so had a whole other idea of kicking his soul mate butt into the stratosphere.

    Enough of my ranting : ) (but what fun)

  27.  #27Mercedes on April 23, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    Linda G: I can be such a pessimist about that instant soul mate thing so I realize this is probably me just being my pessimistic me…but I say check back in with her in 3 months. In my experience, guys who call a lot and give gifts, etc in the beginning end up disappointing the women they are with. Why? Because they set the bar high (too high for them to keep up with it themselves)…then when they stop doing quite so much of that, she thinks they’re pulling away…then, if she isn’t using tools such as Rori’s, she overreacts and overfunctions…then…it’s downhill from there.

    Sometimes relationships start off all love and roses…sometimes they don’t. When I think about men who are over the top in the beginning, it always reminds me of “The Bachelor” reality show. They set it up so every date is full of romance and roses. Then…after the cameras shut off, reality sets in and life just isn’t like that…after that…things go south quickly.

    My bf and I dated long distance for several years (long distance like 1200 miles apart). We saw each other once every three or four months. When we finally moved closer, our real problems began and we pulled away from each other. Why? Because reality set it. We were always on vacation when we saw each other before. Everything was a romantic hotel or bed and breakfast and a wonderful time. When we reached the place where we could see each other all the time and life set in and things got “boring”, we pulled apart and it was only after a lot of me taking care of myself and deciding what I wanted/didn’t want and setting boundaries for myself were we able to pull back together and make it through.

    So…I’m a pessimist when it comes to the first few months of a whirlwind romance. If they’re still just as happy in a few months…YAY FOR THEM! If not, you have an opportunity (and so does your friend) to learn from the lesson being taught…

    Much Love,

  28.  #28Deena on April 23, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    I do think it is important to define what you want and stick to it and not just give up what you want to appease someone else for awhile.

    I don’t think most men are deliberately trying to get over on us but I do think a lot of them realize they can have all the benefits of marriage without doing it. Maybe they are a little dishonest about it but people tend to do things to get what they want.

    I think if a woman really wants marriage to not wait and wait and wait on someone who is fine with things the way they are or a bit wishy washy. You have to do what is best for you and not let him decide for you.

    I do have some good news! I am now engaged! The date is in a few months!

  29.  #29Linda on April 23, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    Hi Ladies

    We are all in process and helping each other is what it is all about!

    One of the things that I have decided to do is cut the emotional tie I feel to this guy. So I could let it go . I can still have the uncanny feeling but not having my emotions of hoping for it to happen in the way is better. I have to do this in order to circular date others and see them for who they might be in my life. So today I determined that I would cut the rope ( the tether ball is now cut loose from the pole… it can sail to oblivian and it can stay close if it wants… It felt like I was abandoning something… kinda messed with my mind too. Doing it has set my mind free…and therefore my heart as well. I guess it would be me emotionally leaning back not just leaning back in my actions only… I hate that feeling of leaning back physically and every fiber of you wants to lean in real close!… lol This feels good and peaceful. I feel free of being concerned about what he is doing or thinking. It puts me on center stage and takes him off in my mind and heart too. (that was such a good word picture for me Lin)

    My waiting to use feeling messages have come from lots of things I have read. We really want what we want to be heard and received. communication is about two people hearing what is said not just one person in my thinking. I have used a few and he has been silent… I knew that it was not the right time. I have however been open to hearing his feeling messages, even if they are in man speak….and I have responded to his messages with my own feeling messages. Like.. wow I bet that felt really award, I can see how that person was trying to humilate you in front of your peers, …you did well with that … etc…That kind of response when a man is open shows you heard him, empathize and encouraged him all at once. Sometimes the wisest thing you can do though is to remain silent. I have a life verse… “a gracious woman attains honor” I try to live by it.

    I have not communicated with him since he cancelled our dinner. I dont like this pattern… it feels bad but I have felt like being silent. It feels peaceful and gracious somehow. He has his stuff to deal with it is not mine and someone elses drama does not have to become ours… I let it go…..

    Just now I got a text from him after 2 days of silence.. it simply said…Hi, sorry I’ve been quiet….. I have not responded not sure what to say. They say we should pay more attention to a mans actions than his words but I must say… these words are sweet to receive…..


  30.  #30Mercedes on April 23, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    Deena: congrats lady! I wish you both the very BEST!

    Much Love,

  31.  #31heartbeat on April 23, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    Linda you feel very gracious to me! I’m full of admiration for how you are handling this situation.

    Mercedes yes I’ve had that experience – the full-on wooing then *puff* he’s gone… Funny that should come up – this evening I realised we (he and I) are doing pretty good, the connection is steady and he demonstrates his love in non-showy ways. I feel a little addicted to high passion and drama though, but my eyes are being opened. I feel appreciative.

    Some lovely posts, I feel too sleepy to mention everyone!

  32.  #32heartbeat on April 23, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    Congratulations, Deena! xxx

  33.  #33Mercedes on April 23, 2009 at 4:24 pm

    Congrats Deena! I wish you both the BEST!

  34.  #34Linda G on April 23, 2009 at 6:23 pm

    Best of everything Deena! yay!

    Back to my trigger, my friend having thsi great date: The thing is, I can’t even be happy for her, I’m so mad. I want to jump in and say you are leaning forward, future thinking too soon, blah blah blah. How is it that it took her only one date?!!!!! to find her”soul mate?” (my words, not hers, though she went on and on about how she never felt this way before in her life and they have such an amazing connection and they talk for hours…..)After one date????? I have been on dozens and dozens of dates these past months and only a few have even peaked my interest! It’s like what Rori says on one fo her programs, where you see someone with a great guya nd you look at her, she’s not prettier or smarter or anything more than you but you can only say “how did she get that guy?”I am not convinced at all she’s got anything, just a nice first date she is inflating, but I’m…jealous? What am I missing here? Or am I? Is this my nasty voice?

    Linda, I started using feeling mesasages with my ex BF when he decided to turn up again. He remained quiet as well. I took it as a message, he cannot feel, refuses to acknowledge my feelimgs. It felt wierd to have my feeling message just hanging there in the air like that. I never spoke to him again.
    Now, I have not completely followed your story, I am just responding to that one particular talking point.

  35.  #35Ann on April 23, 2009 at 6:26 pm

    Hello ladies back on the computer tonight. I’ve read the blog from my mobile email the past few days. I love the way everyone supports each other and spaks THEIR truth.

    As far as my hubby dr appointment went not a whole lot more to tell. The new dr wants to do his own test then he’ll decide when/how he’ll take it out. Just taking it one day at a time.

  36.  #36Tracy on April 23, 2009 at 7:56 pm

    Deena i feel glad for you…yay….congratulations..

  37.  #37Lin on April 23, 2009 at 9:04 pm


    I love what you say… truly….. you make sense.
    I just want to know how you cut off emotionally? with your guy. and not say anything… to him… ?


  38.  #38Lin on April 23, 2009 at 11:18 pm

    Linda G
    I want to share… with you about your friend.
    she just kicked out her husband…
    did she love her husband… and is she just mad as hell at him?
    I did the same thing to my bf….. and then next night… I had a date with a guy who
    completely knocked my socks off… we agreed
    on everything… he was so romantic…. that night he named our song… from night of the opera… I forget it now…. any way… handsome
    tall… and completely in to me… !! gifts.. so many gifts… a beautiful gold ring.. with a diamond…. with in the first 2 weeks he asked me to marry him.. no lie… when we were shopping… imagine shopping at a mall… he sent women over to me.. saying… this man loves you and wants to marry you… strange sales ladies… everyone loved this guy.
    He lived 90 miles away… and he stayed in a hotel when he came to see me…. he came on wed.. when he was suppose to be here on Fri.
    I said.. You are too early… !!!

    Well. my x called and said… is he calling too soon… and I was so happy to tell him… no… you have lost me.. completely.
    I found someone else… and he is everything I want…! I was so angry with him…. what I did not know was that I was on the re bound.. and my feeling were not about loving or liking this new guy … but anger at my x.. for not doing what he promised to do… and for letting me down… to the point..I had to break it off with him…
    this never happened to me before..a re bound
    so…. with in a month.. I realised… I did not want this new guy… at all… I was smothered.
    and it was all too fast…. for me… I was on the re bound…. and he ended up… making me feel terrible and I could not wait for him to leave…
    I felt terrible to the new guy .cause I hurt him..
    he was calling my friends to ask.. how to get into my heart.!! he told my neighbor kids to put notes on my car window.. for him.

    I finally agreed to meet with my x
    and we walked the beach.. and one kiss.. and I was connected to him again… and he was a better boyfriend… so… your friend could just be on the re bound…
    it is funny… that the new guy did everything that I wanted my boyfriend to do.. just like that.
    that was 4 years ago.. if not more.. and the guy still texts me once in a while to see if I would have one more dance with him. funny isnt it… ? I cant figure anything out any more..
    you guy…. texts you… with…. sorry he has been quiet……. Linda he is testing the water.
    to see if you are still his… with giving you nothing… NOTHING…. you center him…
    nice… for him…… while he sends you into orbit….. give him some surprises… !! be unpredictable….. say…. I miss your smile..
    to him….. and then disappear…. for 3 weeks.
    ( I could not do it… but maybe you could)
    I wish I had your strength… I am just tired.
    I am still with my BF…. and he says.. we will be married.. he says all wonderful things I always love to hear….. and we see each other alot..
    but the ring.. is still not present….
    so… I have said… thats ok… its not really real.
    and thats ok… I be on my way… and I tell him its over… and I need to move on…
    and he can sleep.. has night mares… and he wont let me go.. and pleads with me to give him 2 more weeks….and I want to believe him.
    and I am not a nag.. I just say.. ok… lets be happy and make this work… and he says he wants us to work on the relationship.. and he will do anything… but.. I swear its all to keep me… his gift friend… and he has no intention
    of buying a ring… I swear… deep inside.. he means it when he says it.. and then once he has me back.. he is comfortable again…
    I am just feeling… that everyone wants what they cant have… me included….

  39.  #39Linmayu on April 23, 2009 at 11:27 pm

    DocK, were you replying to me or to Linda G? It sounded like you were replying to her comment. I know it gets confusing with a Lin and a Linda and a Linda G and a Linmayu. Sometimes I read a comment from Lin and think “I don’t remember writing THAT…oh right, that isn’t me.”


    Right now I feel kind of blargh about men, stressed by work, and completely obsessed with the idea of making a lolita dress out of a sari. It’s an idea that shouldn’t work, and I’m sure there are people in the lolita community who don’t even want to think about me trying it, but fuck it, I’m Indian and I have mad sewing skills and if anyone can pull it off, that would be me. I’ve got the hairstyle and makeup figured out and everything.

  40.  #40gina on April 23, 2009 at 11:51 pm

    Hi Ladies,
    I’m feeling confused. I met a guy online – we talked on the phone lots, but never met in person cause he let me know that he is seeing someone now, and hopes to have a romantic future with me (which feels good to hear, but feels scary cause we’ve never met – so what is he even talking about?? But then I do know what he’s talking about cause we have a lot in common. But, so what?! if it doesn’t even inspire him to want to meet me?), but he wants to see where things are going with this girl he is currently involved with. I haven’t spoken with him in weeks, I have been dating other people, though I think about him often cause I enjoyed talking to him. He contacted me the other day to see if I was going to an event in his town – political rally for stuff we are both super passionate about. I am, and so we’ll finally meet. I realize that my feelings are distorted, so I’m expressing them here in hopes that I can get clear before I meet him. I resent that we are meeting cause we are both showing up, not cause he made any effort. Yet, on the phone he said “So we’ll finally meet!” And I said “Yep.” And he said “Yep…” as if he was disappointed that I didn’t express excitement. Or maybe he just sensed that I wasn’t being forthcoming with my feelings. I just felt confused! I guess I coulda let him know. I feel rejected in a way and that feels bad. I feel defensive of him flirting with me, like he doesn’t deserve my most attractive side. I feel vengeful, like I want to show him how glorious I am. I want to seduce him. I want to reject him. But…I am going to have fun, meet lots of people, see what his deal is, and anyway, there’s another totally cute guy that I have begun talking to online – we’ll meet soon: no more imaginary nonsense!

  41.  #41Linda G on April 24, 2009 at 4:59 am

    Hi Lin, thanks for sharing that story with me. That had to be a whirlwind thing to go through.
    I hope you are circular dating, even with your boyfriend back. (hope you don’t mind my saying so)
    as for my ex, you have gotten all the Lins,and Linda’s confused. I should probably come up with anew name for myself here that is un-Lin like.
    Anyway, my ex never said sorry for anything, not for being silent, not for shutting down, not for being emotionally cold and unavailable. That was the other Linda’s ex. Mine just closed off and I let it go.
    As for my girlfriend, she hated her husband for years, it was a toxic marriage. So I am glad she is on cloud 9. I’m suspicious of the whole thing, but she tends to latch onto new people and totallt overindulge, being her friend is very exhausting, I have to keep my distance. The thing that bothers me most is..I’m jealous?
    I also hate giving advice to peopel that then go off and find their true loves and husbands and I am still alone.

  42.  #42DocK on April 24, 2009 at 5:49 am

    Sorry Linmayu, Linda G – guess I really got triggered with the whole soul mate thing and made incorrect name address to message : ) : (

  43.  #43Linda G on April 24, 2009 at 5:59 am

    Forget about it, Dock. The message is what’s important, your message to all of us Lins.
    You know, tnow that I think of it, I met a guy a few weeks ago that was talking future from the first date and making plans and I found it it icky. In fact there were two guys. I suppose if I went for it, I’d have the same experience of my friend. It just always feels that when that happens, it’s not me in particular they want, it’s a person to fill a role they are casting.
    I truly want the magic, the feeling of connection, but not the magic trick, does that make sense?

  44.  #44Linda G on April 24, 2009 at 6:01 am

    oh and PS, the guy who professed adoration and future talk so fast with me, found someone else in a matter of days…

  45.  #45Linda G on April 24, 2009 at 6:14 am

    and now, I told the story of my friend to my dad, he knows her, and he thinks she’s amking it up. I don’t. but when I told him I met guys that came on strong like that and turned tehm away, he said maybe next time I should reconsider.. am I nuts?

  46.  #46DocK on April 24, 2009 at 6:30 am

    Thanks : )

    Sometimes I think men have their own “biological clock” ticking. I remember a guy at school that didn’t even hear himself as he was talking about how he was READY for marriage – all of his friends were married, he was the only single one, felt odd hanging out with them and so on. Also, I’ve heard guys talk about not wanting to be too old when they have children and be able to throw a football around with a son (they always assume it’s going to be a son although they adore the daughter just as much when she shows up). This feels all business-ey and not like when a man falls for a woman and it has to be her (not saying, of course, that timing can’t have a place in that either).

    Gina (hope I’m getting it right this time) – Rori tells us every guy is a messenger. This guy you are describing, when I have met someone like that I have definitely felt confused and deflated and disappointed. Confused because he is saying he is seeing someone but sort of interested in me. Deflated because I have enjoyed talking with someone like that and feeling that connection and energy and sparkly stuff but then deflated by a lack of initiative that feels special to a woman. Disappointed at the way we are finally meeting (as, in my past experience, driving to meet him, MY bad).

    BUT you are keeping YOUR options open and circular dating so following Rori’s stellar advice. Wish I had this advice “back in the day.”

  47.  #47Mercedes on April 24, 2009 at 6:35 am

    Ann: So glad you’re able to relax on the computer some. I hope all continues to go well with your husband.

    Linda G: I dated a guy once who brought me a flower every time he saw me. Something seemed odd about that. It sorta gave me the creeps and I don’t know why. I still know the guy and he’s really sweet and happily married, but…that wasn’t for me. I love roses as much as any woman but I guess it never seemed genuine and special. I don’t know. I don’t think you’re nuts though. Guys that come on strong in the beginning just have a different vibe about them that isn’t for me. Kind of like how some men love it when a woman overfunctions from the beginning. MOST guys are a little freaked out by it. Maybe your friend (who overfunctions – like a cake on the first date!) and this man who showers with gifts are compatable in that way. If so, then as long as they can both keep it up, maybe they’ll get along famously. But…if that’s the case, there’s no need for jealousy…she has something you don’t want – a man who needs an overfunctioning woman he can give gifts to. Wouldn’t you rather have a man who gives gifts without you having to do something to get those gifts? I know I would.

    And…maybe my take on this is all wrong…who knows? I just know when a man gives me too much from the start, I get suspicious…

    Much Love,

  48.  #48DocK on April 24, 2009 at 7:15 am

    Me again. : ) Asking for advice this time.

    I went with this guy I see to the gym and we worked out together. We had been talking about doing this for some time. I usually train alone so was wondering what it would be like.

    It felt really fun. He complimented my training form and he didn’t try to push me to do weight too heavy for me (I have seen guys do that with women in the gym and the women can get hurt).

    The only place where I feel self-conscious is that I didn’t pick up on something. For the first time in my almost 3 decades of training I can do wide-grip pull ups – I don’t know that means anything to anyone but women rarely can do these and so to have a personal best at my age – yayyyyyy!! He had said he wanted to see me do them. When we got there and I went to do them without a machine that helps you he said, “why don’t you do them on the assisted machine” and I said I feel happy that I can finally do them on my own and did . Well, then he went to do his set and it wasn’t just easy breezy for him like I thought – he is really strong but he is so tall – that’s a lot of mass to lift up and down. It was then that I wondered if he suggested the assisted pull-ups so that I wouldn’t see any struggle from HIM doing them. oops!

    So then I felt all hard on the outside and not girly : (

    It got better after that exercise as I could barely do a third of the weight as him on any other exercise and oohhed and ahhhed and lightly touched muscles he was working as a focus helper (my doctorate is in performance psychology) and he liked that.

    I guess I am wondering if a woman shouldn’t do fitness training with a guy at all. I mean, other than my first blunder, is it too much like competing? He is 6’5″ and I am itty bitty and can’t possibly compete with him in the weight we use and it felt really fun and he wanted to know how much my gym was and he wished we could work out together all the time…

    I mean, he sent me a message this morning saying, “It was an absolute honor to finally get to train with you, I feel like I was with a celebrity! You are so beautiful, and you certainly know what you’re doing. Watching you do pull-ups, straight-up dead-hang no cheating for 10 reps was absolutely incredible. You have no idea what kind of strength you possess for a woman. Not that I needed to be more impressed with what you can do, but it one thing to hear about it and another to watch you work!”

    Is this bad? : (

  49.  #49DocK on April 24, 2009 at 7:33 am

    To add – I responded:

    ‘You are so sweet to say that. I feel awed by your strength barely being able to do 1/3 of the weight you use – but I like that and you know it – I love the look of your muscles and your strength and, honestly, as much as I am proud of my physical strength, I love feeling girly and small next to you and you picking me up like you do and well, you know…’

  50.  #50Lin on April 24, 2009 at 8:24 am

    Doc K…. are you kidding… what your guy said to you… was honest… and its beautiful that he respects you that much…for what you accomplished… You have discipline.. amazing.
    Its all good… you deserve all the complements,
    you get… just tell him how you feel…

    I wish I had muscles… in my arms.. and stomach…. my legs are strong.. and good.
    I am thin… but soft…. I am now playing tennis for fun and to build muscle…. and swimming to take off the fat !!
    and I work… and I raise my grandson.. and take care of my aging dad… and I have 5 yr. boyfriend… who says he wants to marry me..
    and do all the other wonderful things I long for….. tommorow !! I should not complain.
    ( we both have been single for 25years).
    but I do want to build my body with muscles..
    also…. what ever….. you go girl….
    and keep up the great work…. men have to be always in Au of you.. being little and in great shape… !!
    Lin… ( its too late to change our names,,, isnt it) I always thought Linda and Linda g was the same person… oh well…. ? its confusing..
    and yet .. I feel the different personality’s.
    and to Linda g…. who has the friend.. who found the soul mate… so quickly… we are all connected… support her as you would would want to be supported… we are all connected
    as you have said so many times…
    I agree with mercedes……. men like that that come on so strong… dont last… or we dont last wanting them.. either way.. fast relationship fall as fast as they grew… or maybe its just right…. it certainly sounds nice to see something work… easy with out all the work we go through…. It could happen,. I believe in everything…. being possible.


  51.  #51DocK on April 24, 2009 at 8:36 am

    Lin – thank you. I feel calmer now : )

    I feel awed by you as well that you are able to add in all of the physical activity with everything you do. One thing I know for sure is that I don’t have all of the responsibilities that other people have and so it is easier for me to be consistent in my physical pursuits – I do feel so free and happy when I work out and dance – these are my passions and my moving meditation.

    A guy that adores you and wants to give you everything – feeling a catch in my throat and tears in my eyes for your happiness.

  52.  #52Linda G on April 24, 2009 at 9:34 am

    I hate when that happens. It feels so disappointing and at teh same time I feel badly because it feels like I’m being kept on the back burner, as a fail safe. Dating, the only answer. In fact, I got an email from a guy I had a really great firstdate with. It was a couple of days later, and he emailed me to say he was using his final dyas on match to find a kayaking partner, and that even though he was so attracted to me, intersted in me, he was concentraing on thta, but would let me know if he falls in love. And he hopes to continue with me soon. ????? Did I ask? I enjoyed myself with him, felt he had potential, but I certainly didn’t think we were involved or anything…I just answered thank you for sharing your feelings and keeping me updated. What sort of response does he expect to get?

  53.  #53Linda G on April 24, 2009 at 9:44 am

    And.. when I had a guy seem so obsessive and possessive ona first meeting,I interpreted my lesson learned as how yucky it feels when someone wants to lock you up in a cage. Now, am I just a cold hearted bitch that pushes everyone away? I can’t get past this, I know I should be happy for my friend, I am, but it’s driving me up a wall!

  54.  #54Linda G on April 24, 2009 at 9:51 am

    Oh, and Dock, about the training thing and this guys comments. This si not bad, this is fabulous! You are being admired for something you are passionate about and appreciated! I work out, much less now than years earlier, and I’m damn impressed! hooray for you! The guy sounds grea, too!

  55.  #55Mercedes on April 24, 2009 at 12:23 pm

    DocK: My bf and I work out together a lot, but I remember the first time we did it. I was so nervous. Like you, I had always worked out alone. He and I are competitive in a lot of ways (I know…masculine…but I’m masculine in a lot of ways I think…) but at the gym, we’re really not. I think it’s because, as you said, women and men are physically built differently so I couldn’t begin to compete with him. Our way of looking at it is motivation. We never skip going anymore because (we’re competitive and) neither of us wants to be the one to suggest we get lazy. Also, we motivate each other to push harder (when your significant other is watching you in your workout clothes, you want so much to look even better and you try even harder). My favorite part is the fact that now that we’re working out together…we shower together afterwards… 🙂 (umm…at home that is…not at the gym…lol)

    I don’t think we ladies should be so concerned about being feminine that we hide our talents. We can find the balance there and I think you’ve done just that…while remaining authentic. You’ve obviously got a man who appreciates what you’ve accomplished. He doesn’t sound intimidated by it at all. I think he’s probably even turned on by it. I’d keep giving it my all if it were me…

    Much Love,

  56.  #56Linmayu on April 24, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    I’m loving the discussion. Lin, I feel touched by your story of reconnecting with your man. And DocK, I feel inspired by your gym story. It doesn’t sound bad at all, it sounds wonderful, he’s amazed and impressed by what you ARE, not just what you do. I hope to hear the same thing from a man someday!

    I could change my name back to Reshi to be less confusing, but I don’t want to.

    I am ready to go down the roller-coaster of MEGA self-triggering. Repeating to myself impossible-sounding affirmations about my ex, my circular dates, all men, and the world in general. Saying they all love me, deep down inside, that I am loved by everyone. It is hard to think and feel “he loves me” when evidence says “he loves me not,” but Goddess knows, I’ve done the reverse for years.

    I don’t know what the outcome of all this will be, and I don’t care; what feels important is that I do it wholeheartedly.

  57.  #57T.R. on April 24, 2009 at 1:49 pm

    Hi. I have been using the tools and that has been working well for me. Except now I am feeling confused. I have been dating a guy now for almost 3 months. We both were coming out of serious relationships when we met (I am separated from my husband and filing for divorce). We have a great connection and he is very open to communication. My concern is he has stated a couple of times that he can not understand why he is not falling “head over heals in love with me”. I in turn feel like he is not ever going to. I have responded by telling him that I don’t think we need to worry about that at this point in our relationship, but that I do want that and a family in the future. I truly don’t know how to respond to him and I don’t know if I should tell him that we should stop being exclusive. I sometimes feel this because I do not want to close my options if he is not going to take things to the next level with me. I don’t want to scare him off, but I really need to make sure that I do not spend the next year with someone who is not going to commit to me.

  58.  #58Rori Raye on April 24, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    T.R. – Welcome, and as everyone here will chime in – STOP being exclusive with this man – or ANY man…Learn about Circular Dating and DO it. The only exclusivity is marriage. Otherwise you’ll culture nothing but resentment.Love, Rori

  59.  #59Mercedes on April 24, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    Yup T.R. I’m w/Rori on this. I’m exclusive without a ring but only because neither of us wants that & we both know we’re in love & will spend the rest of our lives together. If you want marriage & you don’t have a ring & you’re exclusive…you give him no reason to take it to the next level with you.

    When you show your strength by dating lots of men until the right one steps up to claim you for life, you WILL find that man who can’t live without you & can’t bear the thought of you being with someone else. This is especially true in your case where he can’t even say “I love you.”

    Much Love,

  60.  #60Linda on April 24, 2009 at 3:52 pm


    Deciding that I need to cut the emotional tie to the man I want in my life is proving hard. My emotions drive me most of the time and direct my thoughts most of the time as well. Arresting my mind and saying that it must control me instead of my emotions is “mind over matter” It is like forcing your mind to control do something that your heart is screaming NO!

    In this case, I will go so far to say that I even feel like I am betraying something and abandoning ship. I feels weird because I have a prayed alot over this thing that was going on between this guy and I. I got alot of direction and insight..and everything has come true to date. Waiting is where I get tripped up. I become consumed… and a type of impatent lament takes over me. Before I know it my energy is focused on him, the situation at hand… what he is doing, thinking…. all the things I have no control over. Fear meets me there and it is a quick downward spiral.

    I want to say that in spite of what I see before me right now…I still have a positive feeling about having a great relationship with him. I want to have hope that is freeing instead of one sets me in emotionally in bondage to something that is not happening yet. I want to hoping for it, remain open to it, ready for it but…emotionally detached so that it does not consume me in the meantime. Does that make sense?


  61.  #61T.R. on April 24, 2009 at 4:16 pm

    Thank you. This has been my gut feeling and it feels good to hear it from others. I have to admit, I am kind of scared of losing him by doing this, but I think if I am going to get what I want out of life I will have to take this chance. I live in a small community and dating is a little difficult because of the small population. However, I know there are other men out there and there are ways for me to date myself that I need to take advantage of. I appreciate both of your notes of encouragement! Now I need to overcome my fear of this and just do it. I think my fear is more in how to present this to the man I am dating. He has stated that if I dated other people he would not want to continue seeing me because he believes in monogomy. I am usually very good at expressing my feelings to him, but I have really been stuck on this one…

  62.  #62Lin on April 24, 2009 at 5:30 pm

    I am feeling exactly the same way now…. for the last five years.. fell in love so hard… and we are together… and stronger than ever,
    but… he still seems to have the most power,
    and I am not easy with him… just like you.
    its a long road… wish I could help you..
    he is walking in now.. so…. I will explain later,
    dont throw him away.. just throw him on the back of your horse…. and do your life….
    if I broke up with him,,,,, I could never get him him out of my mind,,, but if I dated other people,,,,,NO kissing , no sex… just fun…
    it gave me more power,,,, and took the edge off…. you have to level the playing field !!

  63.  #63Linda on April 24, 2009 at 5:41 pm

    Approaching a relationship or saying something in fear gives them power over you and your confidence. I have learned this the hard way. Work through it before you bring the subject up so that you have settled the issue inside before you release it. Maybe that will help too.


  64.  #64Linda on April 24, 2009 at 5:56 pm

    Okay Lin

    I am gonna do life. I wont throw him away, just shelve it. Good reminder for me. When he text me yesterday and said “hi, sorry for being quiet…I finally responded with …..hi and later ….. and thank you for your appology. I wanted to respond and was thankful that he expressed sorry for his actions…. I dont feel confident or strong tonight…I want to text him and tell him ” I dont like quiet”.. but I wont. Emotionally I want to so bad but I wont let myself. Such a battle…


  65.  #65Ann on April 24, 2009 at 7:31 pm

    Thank you Mercedas. I’ve enjoyed reading all the interaction here. Rori has some smart, feeling ladies on this blog.

  66.  #66Lin on April 24, 2009 at 7:39 pm

    I swear, to be honest with this man.
    and say…. I miss your smile…. and then date other guys.,, and let him wonder,…. when he texts to you…. sorry he has been quiet,… he is not saying anything…… but he is thinking about you…. with out putting him self out there. you can say,.. I want a relationship with only you and me in it…. what do you think? and date other people…. keep him on the line….. dont let him think he has you.,
    captive …. and he cant or you will go crazy.
    I have been the anchor for my man,,, I center him also…. so I know we are very important to their well being… but what about us…
    they also are important to our well being,…
    I know this.. its called love… dam it,

    Don’T feel bad.. to just throw him on the back of your horse and make other plans… be cool
    and do you life.. let him get in touch with you.
    and you respond with honest feelings always..
    and keep dating….. I did this the whole time to keep my sanity…. and its brought me sanity,,,, and I am still with him,… and he is saying everything I would want to hear….
    now for the follow through….. he is a slow one.
    from the south…. slow and easy,…. and just plain good…. !
    You keep him… as long as he is important to you, You know what is going on,,,, of course
    we are women… and we know…. !
    you and I have alot in common…. !


  67.  #67Lin on April 24, 2009 at 7:49 pm

    LINDA, I know its such a battle….
    please text with feelings … honest feeling,
    quiet feels empty….. quiet does not feel good.
    please do not be above it all,…. if you really love this man….be real…
    be the feeling loving women.. he knows you are,…. feels like you are pushing me aside,
    feels like my feeling are not important to you,
    communicantion is so important in everything,
    in every part of our lives..
    you can say… I want to be in good hands with you… am I ? Its time in our lives … to go for it.. if we know what we want,… ? what do you think… but keep dating.. dating… other men
    and see what happens…. Rori is right on.,,,
    completely… right on…
    men love strong women who know what they want…. and women who do not take crumbs,

  68.  #68Linda on April 25, 2009 at 9:27 am

    Hi Lin… You are very very helpful to me. I know I said that before it was not time to load him up with feeling messages. This next season that is coming soon will be.

    I am a strong woman and I know what I want. Yes, I do have love for him.., yes his texts shows he is thinking about me but it is void of action too… Thank you for your examples of feeling messages. Maybe since my huge heartbreak last year I am trying to protect myself or stay above it all. I dont wanna be under anything like that again but if this hinders my ability to communicate feeling messages I will work on it. Thanks.

    i have a date with a guy tomorrow. I am looking forward to it….yes I will date, There is another man I will meet next week. I have been texting back and forth with him for a few weeks now…My eggs are not in one basket.

    I woke up feeling tired this morning, I am tired of being alone. I felt afraid….I felt afraid to approach or text him…So I thought about it a long time and said to myself you will not let fear of him not responding or what his response it stop you from communicating…. I text him this morning… Good Morning! You Know what? I miss you! I did’nt want it unsaid today. I’ve been quiet too, forgive me. When faith rises up, fear looses it hold! Luv 2 U.” I dont think that is leaning forward, it is just positively stating what I feel and know. Even if it rejected I feel good in stating it and him knowing it.

    A week ago today he and I talked about introducing each to our kids about seizing the opportunity before us… going for it… and then he retreats and hides all week. What do I believe? The fear and other things he puts up in the way to separate us are on its last leg.

    I will be genuine and authentic,strong and me! If telling someone that you miss them and you send love to them sends them running away then so be it. I do feel sorrow for being quiet this week. It was only to let him know that I respected his need for some space. I guess…

    Thanks Lin you help me bunches. I will be the feeling loving women I am… without fail!


  69.  #69Lin on April 25, 2009 at 11:57 am

    I guess I just feel so bonded to you and what you are going through… cause you and I are so much alike.. all through your creative writing about your feelings are so much better than I… I learn from you also.

    I want to help you jump over the pain… and heart ache… to a much better place full of your own power… another thing I do when I am triggered…. and feeling all obsessive… about what is he doing .. why is he not calling me… to where its really driving me crazy.
    I go to the cell… and put his name on slient.
    so…. I dont know if he is calling or not calling
    and I can forget him for a while…. and if he calls and I dont answer… he gets triggered.. and keeps calling…. and its like a pay back for me.
    and some how.. it gives me back my power.
    if hours go by and he has not called… I keep his number on silent… longer… !

    I am happy to find out.. you already love this guy .. and you had a big break up last year,
    that was fast.. to find another man you could love so quickly…. !! that tells me.. you could find another guy again….. for me …. its been taking at least 3 years to mend…!!
    but maybe it wont this time… my guy is still saying all the most wonder things… but delaying it all… its like a carrot in front of my face.. till next week… all will be perfect.
    and its keeps on getting pushed to the next week.. I think I have to start dating again..

    Did you have a brother? somehow… I feel the women who have issues with relationships with men… did not have brothers…
    just a feeling I have..?

    I feel you are really going about all this perfectly…. and so happy you are dating…
    gives you leverage…. and power in doing so.!
    I would feel anxiety when he called me or texted me when I was out on a date..so much
    that I would go into the bathroom.. and text him back… to calm him..! then I could not wait to get home..
    So best to put his number on silent.. on a date.
    why calm him…( cause I loved him) big mistake. If he is feeling he is loosing the strong hold he has on you… he will be feeling more.. intense feelings for you… thats how it works…. thats how they got us.. in the first place… so…. we have to be strong… !! Its our strength gets the relationship we want.. with the man you want…. and this is what smart women do.
    I think. He already knows your sweet.. and helpful..sexy and a great lady… now he needs to know that your needs will be met… with him or someone else… cause your needs are important too..!!! no crumbs.. girl…. I know your strong… !! keep going !!!
    Your power comes in… your not afraid to ask for what you want…. and taking care of your own needs,, and making your life all about you.
    with all the love in your heart… !!
    I am being tired of being alone also… I am tired of being a girlfriend…. I am tired of being
    disappointed… by my guy…
    I am tired.. to go find another guy and go through the pain of the break up… my guy would never ever break up with me… but he keeps the relationship exactly where he wants it….. and I told him so… and I want and deserve a real marriage… to a wonderful guy,
    and maybe … its not him…
    maybe it is.. I have to stop making him comfortable… again !! This never ends !!
    I have been doing this love thing with this man for over 5 years. !!! way too long !!!
    Wow …. I learned so much… in this relationship.
    about me.. and relationships in general..!!
    I think I have loving.. and longing all mixed up.
    have a great weekend !

  70.  #70Linda on April 25, 2009 at 10:17 pm

    Hey Lin

    Guess what? I was out on two dates the week end of Easter and both nites he called me.. He did not call all week but found it odd that he called the nights I was out. I was shocked.. maybe his radar was up or something. Easter evening he called me asked if he could come over… I allowed it. The last time I had seem him he was just my “friend” but when he came on Easter he did not come as a friend but a love interested in me. hmmmmm Did my unavailabilty make him squirm a bit… I though it uncanny lol

    I do have a brother, he is younger than I. Very selfish and not involved in my life. We were not close growing up either.

    I did not get a response from him today when I decided to stop being afraid to contact him. I even sent another one telling him that I thought that “quiet felt so empty” and I would enjoy seeing his smile today. Wondering if he wanted to have lunch?… Oh well, it is truly his loss. I went out with my kids and son in law, had a beer and pizza, ended up at the park on the swing and swang like I was a little girl again. My girls 24 and 20 right beside me giggling too. It was a blast. So I guess he is on my horse and I am doing life. Have a 4th Date with guy tomorrow night for dinner and like I said meeting another one next week.

    I went to the bookstore this afternoon. I found an interesting book about emotional avalability. When I read the introduction I just about cried !… I felt this ahh ha moment and it was healing. It was written metaphorically…..

    You are invited to a party by your love interest… but they dont tell you what time to arrive or what the attire should be so… you decide that 7 is a good time and you put on a really nice semi casual… should fit all occasion outfit. You did your hair and makeup stunningly….you can hear people inside as you arrive laughing and smell the wonderful food aromas waifting as you walk up to the house. When you get to the door and knock your love interest answers the door. He says “your late”.. you reply “you did not tell me what time to be here”… He says “well I though you would know what time to be here and we have started dinner already” You are thinking wow well, “I am here now so I will just slip in and join you” Then he says…”you are not dressed correctly”…. (you see he is in black tie) and you think to yourself… I can run home and change and be back in 30 minutes, all the time wondering what you have in your closet and how long it will take you to return…So you say… “I will just run home change and be back in a few minutes”….Then he says and “where is the 9 layer individual cakes I thought you were bringing with you, I was counting on those for dessert”… You reply, I dont recall you asking me to bring dessert” He said well you know I like them and just thought you would know to bring them” You are so wanting to be included in this wonderful affair that you begin doing the math and see that it take you to go home change and stop and get the 19 dessert cakes and return… you reply “um I will just run out and change and stop by and get the dessert, I should be back just as you are finishing up dinner”…. His reply is… “it will be too late some of the guest will leave before you get back… so it just isn’t going to work out for you to join us. You begin thinking how stupid of me to not think of things better on your own… you begin looking at all the things lacking in you that caused this mishap etc etc… I mean… All you wanted was to occupy the place you had been invited to occupy, the seat next to the host as his guest of honor. …………

    This is the picture of a emotionally unavailable person. No matter what you do, no matter what you offer to change.. or to accomodate (at your expense) it is not ever going to be enough because they are not going to allow you to sit next to them ever. You will never meassure up or meet their need etc etc…

    When I read the story I thought, how in the world could you have read his mind.. figured it out… done it right. It seems ludicrous and rediculous that you would even try …..but this is exactly what we are trying to do when attempting to have a relationship and connect to a emotionally unavailable man. !!!!!! That was my aaaah haaa momment.

    This guy I have been trying to connect with is just this Emotionally unavailalbe!… He issued me an invitation to join him and when I accepted it has been one reason after the other as to why it just isnt going to work for him…. First reason thing would not work after he asked me to be his girlfriend was a something to do with my Ex husband and financial closure… when that got explained… then he confessed that he was a mess financially, spiritually and had baggage and tormented by it and was not ready for anyone, (but he was online everyday looking for someone)…when that was discussed and resolution to that issue…. then he retreated after a week and said… tried really tried again.. (NOT) but it just wasnt all there for him with me, but the reason was really not important.. oh then the last one….that something in my physical appearance was not what he is looking for, but he has never found it and and wonders why God wont give him what he wants…and so on and so forth… It reads just like the story of the party and the host….. I have been doing all these mental calastenics trying to make sense of it… and today it clicked. I had this relief pour all over me and I smiled.

    THere are steps to work through to get emotionally open again…and I now see several converstations that we have had that indicate that he wants out of his bondage but doesnt know how. Wow This information was such a great discovery for me and it brought relief and release. I realized too that in his present state of mind….that no matter what I say or do it will not be good enough for him to allow me to occupy the place at his side. I love it when I get the anwser I have prayed and searched for.

    He is emotionally unavailable because of his life experience.. there are courses of action to take to get reconnected only time will tell.. and when he calls me… I will be ready for it.

    Just wanted to share what I found out today. I dont care if I was the most beautiful rich woman in the world he would find something lacking there too. I didnt think it was me for a second anyway. Maybe it is something like that which is keeping you from the wedding moment. Just a thought.


  71.  #71Linda G on April 26, 2009 at 6:24 am

    from Linda to Linda:
    the aspect of the book scenario that strikes me the most is the song and dance, the overfunctioning the man puts the woman through, and that no matter how she leans forward (using Rori-isms here) he just rejects her harsher and harsher, humiliating her.

  72.  #72Maria on April 26, 2009 at 7:37 am

    lm not sure if l got it right by the last post, will do a copy paste here. – the overfunctioning the man puts the woman through, and that no matter how she leans forward (using Rori-isms here) he just rejects her harsher and harsher, humiliating her – thats exactly been like definition of how l have felt in past. l have been overfunction to my last guy l dated, so bad that l hated him same time, cos it was all in the air, all of it. Him humiliating me and just looking how far l can get.
    From that l learned, that whenever l sense the smell of it in my next relationship, l do quit it fast.
    The funny thing was – the minute l got in touch with me feelings and stopped overfunctioning, the minute he was back, telling how much he thinks of me and so on. But this time l was not tricked. l ltold him the honest truth of how l think he treated me like shit, and no more l wont let anyone do like that. He keeps calling and texting me, but l wont answer. Cos if l wont break the cycle of attracting men like that, l will never learn. He wont have a change with me, EVER. Let him call 🙂 Fine by me.

  73.  #73Lin on April 26, 2009 at 8:45 am

    Its interesting how you found the perfect book.. to read…. now. that helps you.
    sometimes I buy a book.. but dont pick it up to read… until its the right time to read it….
    I found it so helpful my self… of course its very exaggerated example.. to prove the point.
    How ever its right there…. !

    If we continue with desiring to make the relationship work… yes.. we would be humiliated… ! over and over again,…
    this certainly frees up our hearts to let go..
    does it not !! ?? Plus such dishonestly from the man to string us along… !!
    I am really glad you shared this with us.

    We can string a man along also…. when our hearts belong to someone else… !! so thats why reading these books and learning is so important,, so we dont throw a perfectly great guy away.. cause of some unavailable man in our hearts !! And with your guy.. that could be the issue… the women he cant have… holds the space in his heart…. !!! Also I know a women who was so hurt through her 30 yrs of marriage and divorce…. she keeps playing men… and cant let any one into her heart..
    at all…. and her divorce was 6 years ago… and still thats all she talks about… so she is unavailable… still..! In her words…. she says she will never love again… and she could never hurt a guy.. as badly as she was hurt by her husband… so…. she does not care…!
    and I understand that to a point.. but not 6 years later !!
    Thanks for sharing that story…. I have a younger sister… who is selfish.. and we are not close…. either….
    Most important…. is how we like our selves..
    its important for me to live honestly…. and know who I am.. and honor my feelings..
    I feel sorry for all who… use other people to feel better… and then confuse them… as many men and women do…!
    I guess its the golden rule that still holds..
    My guy could be stinging me along… still all these years…. he says we will go shopping for engagement ring… Monday or Tues…. see the carrot….right there…. !
    when he is talking to me… saying these things
    I cant tell you.. how sincere he sounds..
    and its so natural to me… that he would feel this way…. we do connect in a big way.. and have stayed together for a long time… I know he does not see anyone else..
    so unless his heart was broken in earlier years,
    I just dont get it… unless… the only thing that would make him run to the store to buy the ring.. was…. his feelings he might lose me..
    which I still believe it the key… ! ????

  74.  #74gina on April 26, 2009 at 9:02 am

    I have had an incredible 24 hours. I finally met a guy who I had an imaginary relationship with for the last month, and it was shocking how my idea of him mismatched reality!! Rori warned me of this, and I understood her point, but I thought I had a real sense of what this guy was like. I was wrong – he wasn’t my cup of tea AT ALL, and I had been worrying about why I hadn’t heard from him for a while – I was totally imagining a future with him! In a way, I still want to hear from my imaginary guy – too bad he doesn’t exist. Yesterday I met a new guy, and I had a pretty amazing experience. I was totally receptive and he was loving every second of it. It was awesome to see how powerful it is to receive. There were times when I gave in to the temptation to be opinionated, political and argumentative – those moments were not successful. Overall, though, it was very therapeutic to experience myself as a sensual goddess!

  75.  #75Linda on April 26, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    Hi again

    I hope the story I shared helps all of us to see how we can get sucked in to senrios like that. I mean, the story is exagerated true and easy to see. The girl in the story did not feel humiliated at all… All she wanted was to answer his invitation to join him and sit next to him as his guest of honor. She thought if she could just get in the door than he would see how wonderful it would be… The point is that with a person that is unavailable emotionally, nothing you do will be good enough even if you got in the door to the party…..unless they make themselves open to you. The host is not trying to humilate he is just being his dysfuctional self…and she is trying to fit him. A no win situation.

    This is case with the guy I have been seeing. When I think back on lots of comments he has made.. he was thinking about him and his needs.. not really considering mine. The sad thing is we get caught up in the “if only” part of life.. If only he would just, or if only we could do…but the better place to stay is in reality. This is what “is” and I need to keep myself grounded in reality instead of what could be. It has helped me this time!

    It is true that we can do this to others too. The book had questions etc that you needed to answer so you could assess if you were emotionally available or not. The great thing is that there are ways to help yourself and others if they want it. Unfortunatly most just limp around the rest of their lives. This guy that I have been seeing is doing just that. Limping, he told me so many things, he wants to have a great loving to death do us part (his words) relationship but he just cant seem to find the right woman. LOL Hello, I was standing right in front of him and he did not even recognize me. Actually ladies I think he did see me and maybe is so afraid of being hurt again he sabatoges himself. but…. For whatever reason things are as they are…. and I must stay in a place of reality. Imagination and hopes have their place but not when it comes to relationship issues.

    Right now I would love a chance to talk to him he has always been open and responsive even if it took him a bit to open back up to me. I see a man who is desperately misserable and unhappy with himself (he has said these very words to me)…. and I see a way of escape too… I feel antsy and angry impatient and frustrated that I can do nothing.

    One of my recent circular dates gave me this awesome word picture of how important it is to wait for the right time for things in life. He said….

    “a man had a cocoon in a jar. He was documenting the process. He began to observe the butterfly cutting through the cocoon to and it seemed to really be taking a long time and the butterfly seemed to be struggling more he thought it should have to… so he got sissors and cut the openning ever so slightly to help. He was so glad to see the butterfly emerge with ease then and begin to spread its new wings. Only there was a problem the bottom part of its wings were deformed and crinkled and within a couple of hours it lay dead on the bottom of the jar……. The man did not know that during the time the butterfly is emerging on his own the wings develop and dry properly. His “helping” the butterfly actually aided in its demise!

    What I got out of that is this…this guy I would love to contront and talk to has to come around on his own. To hurry the process would not help anything and I would end up with a dead butterfly! I will wait in positive silence and be ready. Same in my life… I have things I have to understand and go through and work on too. I will do those so I can be ready for my new chapter in life too.

    Hugs to you

  76.  #76T.R. on April 26, 2009 at 7:49 pm


    Good for you! It is so easy to let guys “have control” over our emotions and reactions. It is easy to lose faith in our inner-strength. Generally speaking I have found more strength the more I practice leaing back and using feeling messages. This guy may continue trying to contact you, just do what feels good to you. I rid myself of a very toxic man and now am dating a good man and now find that I have to practice more tools, such as circular dating. This so far has proven difficult for me. However, like you I now know what I deserve and like you have to use the tools to continue moving forward. Great job Maria!

  77.  #77moli on April 27, 2009 at 4:06 am

    Hi Rori

    I think your stuff is great and is really helping me see what’s been going on (or wrong!) in all my relationships to date.

    My question is this;
    I was seeing this guy for 3 years but he never seemed that interested in me. The whole relationship was really hard work, a real uphill battle. I don’t think he had much respect for me or valued our relationship at all. from what I’ve read on this site I think it falls into the ‘toxic’ catagory, with me putting up with alsorts of poor behaviour in the hope of a few crumbs of happiness with him. (This sounds so weak when I read it 🙁 ) So I’ve been circular dating, and actally met a really lovely guy. He’s everything that this other guy wasn’t. He thinks I’m great and can’t wait to spend time with me and makes me feel really secure. He’s a real grown up! So what’s the problem?
    I’m still hung up on the first guy. There’s this lovely man waiting for me and I’m still hoping the crumb giver is going to suddenly realise he does care. What the hell is wrong with me??? I want to jump up and down and give myself a good talking to! But this is emotional and not logical. Help me please, before I mess up with Mr nice guy.

  78.  #78Lin on April 27, 2009 at 4:58 am

    before Rori can answer…. I want to jump in for a second…. if you could just take a piece of paper and write both of their names on the top of each column…. and under each name write down the way each makes you feel about your self… when you are with them.
    Then logically … you can see in black and white
    what is going on…
    I find when this happens to me…. the new nice guy… validates all the hurts and insecurities the bad guy created… and then I feel all whole and beautiful and appreciated… again,,,,
    and strong… enought to go back to the bad guy.. thinking I wont takes those crumbs again,,
    and by the way… thats why the bad guy comes back… your vibe is all good again… and your fresh for a new crumble….
    so… pretend you are you own little child… and she is making a choice of a friend….. who would you like to be her new friend and partner in life…. who will unite with her and give her honor and growth and love… what guy to be her partner… and who is available to really love her…
    sometimes we women dont want to give up on a big challenge… and we choose the wounded one…. who is really not even interested of helping us with our own growth…… and will hurt us….
    I remember this story… of a girl who found a snake…. and the snake was so sick. and dieing.
    the girl took home the snake and nursed the snake back to health…. when the snake was all better… it bit the girl very bad… and the moral of the story… is…. the snake is a snake and no matter how good you are to a snake… its always a snake…. I hope this helps…. !

  79.  #79Robin on April 27, 2009 at 7:57 am


    I LOVE the illustration you gave. What book it that from? Do you have the author’s name? I would love to take a look at it!

  80.  #80Daria on April 27, 2009 at 10:10 am


    In your situation I would CONTINUE to CIRCULAR DATE and not settle with this guy or the last. The idea is that we don’t want to focus one one, and we only choose one for Marriage (if that’s what we want). I would see both guys until it becomes clear to me that I no longer want to see the old one, and I would continue to Circular Date until marriage is really being considered with one of the men in the rotation.

    Part of Circular dating on the Mr. Right program is that we are going to date 3 or more at all times.

  81.  #81Lin on April 27, 2009 at 10:35 am

    Are you suggesting that Moli should keep dating the toxic man… also… shouldn’t
    the 3 men be non toxic men….. only.
    What possible thing could she benefit from with a toxic man? That she has not already learned from him…. ?

  82.  #82DocK on April 27, 2009 at 11:10 am

    I think the problem is that until we are ready to release someone…it’s just very hard and logic and heart don’t always match up right away.

    I don’t want to speak for Daria and what she is suggesting for Moli but for me, I think circular dating would help me to find my way to releasing the first guy. I talked in a previous post about that working for me when I had teacher and biker and finally realized that biker was better for me (in spite of the stereotypes that might have suggested otherwise).

    Also, I know that Rori has talked in her programs about the way that a guy can actually be clueless, not toxic but he is going to seem toxic if we don’t use the tools to see how he responds to them. Many clueless guys will get away with whatever they can until we deliver feeling messages and “I don’t want…” and see how it goes.

    Even once I chose biker he did have some clueless behavior and, eventually, standing up for myself he became different. We were together for 8 years and I would classify him as one of the good guys and wish some woman would snatch him up. Our reasons for breaking up are complex – I started dating him when I was so young, barely 18 and knew him through his sister since I was 13 – and he seemed to know, back then, that I was the one for him for some reason. By the time I was 26 – we were different and wanted different things. He was actually the one that wanted marriage and babies and I was the one against it.

    I certainly know that he has had GFs and intimacy (as he SHOULD) but I feel bad that he has never married or had children. We came to be friends again many years later I think because he has helped out my mom and so people still say, “why don’t you marry biker?” – it just isn’t that easy. Of men of my past, he is the only one I have affection for but not the kind that he wants from me. So, I digress…

    I don’t know, the circular dating is wonderful but it sure is tough when you’re not used to it.

    When I went to the gym with Guy A, there was a guy there that I thought would NOT be because he usually goes dancing that night and I know because I have gone with him. Guy B was sneaking around the equipment trying to ask me if I was personal training Guy A or was he my BF and then Guy A would walk over and give Guy B the eyeball and Guy B is walking around pouting. Then I go to the gym on the weekend and Guy C – a personal trainer I have hung out with a bit is asking who’s the guy I was with the other night and “I’ll ask around – I’ll find out who he is.” So when Guy A was asking why we hadn’t worked out together a long time ago – well, there you have it. Yeesh! Was like something out of a movie.

  83.  #83Lin on April 27, 2009 at 11:21 am

    I just read it differently… as if she was not careful she would of ruin her chances with the new nice guy.. because of the toxic guy…
    so if she is still crazy about the toxic guy.. I always agree not to break it off… but throw him on the back of your horse… and date other guys… and keep on going…..
    my one question… is… Saturday night… is usually with the most important guy in your life…. some guys go for the gold… and ask you out for sat.. right away…. and some are more carefull and do not do that… so.. what do you do in that case…. ?

  84.  #84Liz on April 27, 2009 at 8:17 pm

    Lin, I like your comment about the date you accept on a Saturday night being the most important guy in your life. I felt reminded of Greg Brady, which is what the whole Circular Dating tool reminds me of…..Greg Brady would have a few woman in his rotation he liked and went out on with on dates, but then you’d see him ask out the chick he felt most “groovey” about for Saturday night (or, conversely, Marcia would be excited when the guy she was most enthralled with would call for a Sat night date)…that was the gold.
    I felt uncertain what to make of guys who these days go right in for a Sat nite date (or, a Friday night for that matter). Even for a first date these days I feel inclined to just go for it, and not look into it too much, b/c scheduling more than 2 dates in a week gets tricky with evening work commitments or things I have planned with my gal pals. I usually feel intrigued tho when a new (match) guy suggests first meeting up on a fri/sat night that he is available and admitting being unbooked for those “important” nights too.

  85.  #85Lin on April 28, 2009 at 6:21 am

    Actually is always flattering when a guy asks you out for Saturday night…. but not for the first date….. I actually think.. he does it to see if you are dating someone else also…
    It also tells you he is not that attached to another women….. just a suggestion…. nothing for sure… !! I thought it was pretty universal this Saturday night thing,,, due to its pretty normal that people are off work that day. and they do not have to be up real early Sunday morning…. so… thats what makes it special date night… ! Are you talking about peter Brady from the Brady bunch?

  86.  #86Maria on April 29, 2009 at 2:27 am

    T.R. yes he tried to contact me again, of course, asking me how l was. There were minutes, when l was about to melt, but then l forced myself to remember all that pain he had caused me. Yes l loved him a lot, but l just cannot let myself stick there.
    Now l appear sexy and hot to him again, but to me, after doing some real thinking, l realized that this is not mature behaviour from any man, if he is like jojo with his feelings. l loved him and hated im at the same time, but l told him eventually, that l felt hurt by how he treated me and l dont want this in my life again. l also told him, that l have given change to someone else, who treats me better, and of course that made him angry. But if he would have wanted me in a first place, he woudl have catch me and kept me like goddess.
    lm still suffering some pain from this, but l know that the minute l will be good to him, he start treating me bad again. It is like letting a monster out. So he is so finished.

  87.  #87Jacqueline on April 30, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    Dear Rori,

    I’ve been listening to your Reconnect Your Relationship program and have
    really enjoyed it.

    There are a couple things I have some questions about/need clarification.

    First, you said never to go against any suggestions/ideas your man makes,
    otherwise it’s leaning forward. But then you mention being honest with your
    feelings and saying, “I don’t want to….blank.” I don’t like…blank.” If
    my guy makes a suggestion about a movie or place to eat that I don’t want to
    go to, i’ll tell him no, I don’t want to go there. Then he’ll ask me where
    I’d like to go and I tell him….such and such would feel great to go to.
    Since we’ve been together for 8 months, I feel comfortable suggesting
    places, since we’re both foodies and like to try different places. he even
    tells me how great the places are or how much he enjoyed them and will tell
    me,” Great suggestion, love.” So, I’m feeling confused about your thoughts

    Second, since we’ve been dating for 8 months and have had marriage, kids,
    etc on the table as well as our timelines (he told me his timeline for
    marriage and kids is 6 months later than mine). we have a great
    relationship…I see myself with him in the future. I love him and he loves
    me. My question with exclusivity: I accepted his third request for
    exclusivity after our talk about it and my agreement of terms. However,
    after hearing your program, I feel like I should date other people. I do,
    however, think this would be painful to him. He’s done everything to show
    me he is invested and loves me (meeting my family several times and me
    meeting his). I would think he would want to break up if I said I wanted to
    date other people…..since he’s been a great man to me. What if when i say
    to him, “you can take all the time you need, I dont want to put pressure on
    you or on the relationship…i’m just not willing to shut my options down
    right now”
    that he’ll say, “well I want to be with someone who will be true to me and
    us.” I want to know you have the ability to be faithful to me down the
    road. And this dating other people shows me you can’t be and that you might
    cheat on me in the future.

    Then what?
    Thank you.

  88.  #88Rori Raye on May 1, 2009 at 9:55 am

    J – Welcome – and I’m going to turn your question into a post and answer it (when it’s up, I’ll link it here…) Love, Rori

  89.  #89T.R. on May 1, 2009 at 11:42 am

    I am hoping to get a little advice on circular dating. I told the guy I have been dating that I feel like I need to take a break. I explained that I feel like he has some things he needs to work through in for us to move forward and he agreed that he needs to work through some things. He said that he did not want to take a break, but would do what was best for me. He had tears in his eyes when we talked, then called me 20 minutes after he left. The next day we saw eachother and told eachother that we missed one another. Yet, after this for the first time he did not follow through with calling me. I have stayed strong and went to a dance class and made plans for this evening, so as to keep myself busy and not be always available to him. Is it ok to take a break versus circular date, or is circular dating better, especially in the case when the guy is not in love?

  90.  #90Linda G on May 1, 2009 at 11:49 am

    Hi TR
    Excuse me for butting in, I feel it’s always best to circular date rather than wait for a guy to make up his mind, sort himself out, whatever. This will keep you strong, make you less needy and feel less dependant on his actions.

  91.  #91T.R. on May 1, 2009 at 12:49 pm

    Thank you Linda. My main focus is keeping me strong, so I will keep this in mind and give it a try. Right now I am “dating myself” which helps. I am worried that if I start circular dating he will not want to see me anymore. But maybe that is what I need to find out?

  92.  #92Linda G on May 1, 2009 at 1:47 pm

    Rori has a new post on the front page of the blog where she talks about all the ways of circular dating.
    But I would try to do it for real, if it were me, which you are not.
    check it out

  93.  #93lina on May 1, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    am new in this blog nd I hope to hav some advice in my relation. I hav been tryin to get ur book Rori but I hav a prob usin my account ( hope this will be solved soon).
    I hav been in a relation for 2 years that was headin towards marriage. I really didn’t lov my guy first nd he was the one chasin me. it took him a lot of work to get me. He treated me like a queen. I said that I don’t wanna sleep wid him until we get married nd he agreed. but lately, he started doubtin his feelings for me nd tellin me that he doesn’t know if he loves me or he is just attracted to me phisically.He, later admitted that he slept wid somebody nd that he cldn’t help it. He begged me to forgiv him nd asked me to be his wife. after just 2 months, he started makin comments about the way I dress nd that he feels jealous when other guys stare at me as I wear tight clothes or shorts! we disputed abt this issue nd again he started showin reluctance towards marriage, sayin that he is worried that we won’t get along!!! nd he stopped callin me for 12 days now!!! am really fed up! I love him, though nd I don’t know what to do.
    any advice will be very helpful,

  94.  #94T.R. on May 2, 2009 at 12:31 am

    Thanks Linda. The more I feel I am losing my ground the more I realize I need to circular date. This is new and scary ground for me.

  95.  #95Rori Raye on May 2, 2009 at 11:22 am

    Lina, Welcome, and I’m going to jump off your question into a post – Love, Rori

  96.  #96lina on May 3, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    Rori, thanks for help!!
    my Bf sent me a message after two weeks of no contact askin “how r u doin, I cldn’t sleep, so I thought of u” I wonder what does that mean. All I did is answerin him 2 days later politely sayin ” am doin quite good, thanks for askin”.
    am tryin to controle my emotions and come over my deep love for him, which is quite hard!! am also tryin to smile back at other men nd date some of them.
    I hope am in d right track,
    I miss my guy a lot, I really love him nd it makes me sink the way he changes every time. Sometimes he shows tremendous lov nd others he just steps back nd leav me alone, which I can’t accept or tolerate anymore!
    Thanks Rori,
    u r doin a great job, here,
    I love this blog

  97.  #97How I Lost Thirty Pounds in Thirty Days on May 3, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    Hi, interesting post. I have been thinking about this issue,so thanks for writing. I’ll certainly be coming back to your posts.

  98.  #98Desiree on May 7, 2009 at 10:45 am

    I have a situation similar to the “I don’t want you to date other men” line, but it involves my friends from college.

    I’m 26 and in my first serious relationship (long-distance) with a 36-year old man. We’ve been talking and visiting each other for a year and a month. One of my best friends in the world is a guy still at the same college where we met getting his PhD. When I visit the city that our alma mater is in for a weekend, it usually goes without saying that I stay at his apartment instead of at a hotel. We’ve been friends 7.5 years and nothing un-platonic has ever happened, whether I’m staying with him and his roommate or just him when he lived alone. My boyfriend, who has been cheated on many, many times, is insulted and hurt by what he calls my “inappropriate” behavior. I’m at a loss for what to do. I don’t want to be controlled, especially by a man who has set neither a moving date nor a wedding date (and I’ve made it clear that I’m not willing to relocate right now), but I don’t want to hurt him and constantly make him feel ill at ease. I’ve stayed with my friend twice since we’ve been together and both times were a disaster in terms of his feelings. I am not dating any other men (I’ve been leered at, but not asked out), but I do go out and travel and keep my schedule full. I’m wondering what I should do for a wedding in Chicago next year since I have another close guy friend from college who lives in Chicago with his girlfriend and they’ve invited me to stay there. My boyfriend has already expressed anger about the idea of me staying with another guy friend.