He Just Wants To Be Friends – What To Do Now

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Here’s a great letter from Bea that pretty much does my job for me:

“Rori, this is the email I received this morning from “the boy”:

“Hey…I’ve tried a few different ways to write this and then tried to call you about it but then only realized I would fuck it all up so here’s my best. I don’t think I can spend the time I do with you romantically and sexually. It’s obviously tough because whenever I’m with you, I feel pretty damn good but then when I’m not with you I feel bad about feeling that good.

Let me see if I can explain…for whatever reason(s) I feel wrong about being in a relationship with you. It’s probably 100% me, but I just don’t feel comfortable in that idea. So then I spend time with you and I automatically feel the opposite and it confuses the shit out of me but not in a good way. And then I feel horrible in terms of that confusion and it draws me further away from you.

I do feel that we are good friends that can talk about pretty much anything together and I believe that the more time we spend with each other romantically, the more I find myself drawing away from you in that friendship and again, as good as I might feel in the moment, I don’t want it to become that type of relationship.

So saying all that and the knowledge that we have a crazy amount of chemistry together when we meet up, I’m cautious about suggesting that we try and just be good friends the next time we see each other. Of course, you’re going to feel a certain way about seeing me too but please believe me when I say to you that I do really like spending time with you and hope that we can continue to do that as friends (maybe with some time for us to process our feelings).

I’m now re-reading this and hate pretty much everything I’ve said but I feel as if it’s an endless cycle and I don’t want you keep you in the dark anymore. I hope you don’t hate me (or yourself) cause most importantly I don’t regret one part of our relationship…I just feel like this is the best I can come up with going forward.”

My response was: Thanks for the offer of friendship. i’m flattered that you want to be friends but that is not something i’m interested in. i’m interested in you romantically and sexually and i can’t handle seeing you as “just a friend”. i know i would feel bad.”

i’ve deleted him from every social network we’re friends on.  And i’m pretty much hysterical.

And here’s what I wrote back to Bea:

Bea – WOW – you ROCK!!!!

Your response here was magnificent, and if you can stay in this space, you’re going to have what you want very quickly. You’ve done absolutely everything right…relish your hysteria – it’s just a feeling covering up other feelings.

Lay down on the floor and process relaxing every single muscle in your body.

Let yourself feel, cry, whatever until you get bored with it.

Every time it doesn’t work out with a man – it’s not right, and every time it happens and you move on, you get closer to your Mr. Right.

It’s the total truth.

You can do this.

Love, Rori

And here’s what I’d like to add right now:

Okay – I know it’s gong to be a rollercoaster every day.  The hysteria is not going to fade overnight.  There’s no magic pill.

BUT – here’s what you can take away from this:

If you can state your true feelings and state your Boundaries – you can do ANYTHING!

It means you can do it again.  And again. And again.

It means you can stand up for what you want.

You can stand up for your dream.

You can decide to say No and live with the feelings that triggers in you.

The more you do this, the more you survive this, the more, every minute, you choose to do something that gets you on the upside of the rollercoaster, the more you love yourself even if you’re in the “pit of pain” – the faster you’ll be ready to receive Mr. Right – no matter HOW you’re feeling in the moment you meet him.

You can do this.

I did it, and every woman I know with a great success story did this.

You go from pain to pleasure.

The length of the journey, the time you spend at each stop – that’s up to YOU  – and we’re all here pulling for you to keep on your Bridge to your Happy Ever After and respect and love yourself all the way there.

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Turtle Girl on September 4, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    OH WOW wow wow.

    This guys letter to Bea is EXACTLY HOW I feel about one of the guys I am seeing in my CD repertoire..
    And it’s awful. I have not been able to tell him yet. He says he loves me. He I think wants something more.

    I am not sure what I want or what to say or do. It feels just like this guy. I don’t know what to do. I feel bad and confused just like this guy does. S*it. Sh*t. Fuch.

  2.  #2Jilly on September 4, 2010 at 7:58 pm

    Well…I was dating a guy (sailor man) and everything seemed to be going great until thursday night and then he canceled our date due do having to take a kid to the hospital? and I haven’t heard from him since!!!!! I would at least like a note!!! I feel like he was lying about the hospital thing and that’s a psycho thing to lie about really!

    This feels bad…I feel the hysteria and he wasn’t even my boyfriend…I wish I could understand and not want closure

  3.  #3Ragnell on September 4, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    Eeeek! That letter makes me angry. It makes me want to slap the guy. I know it’s honest and direct and Bea should be thankful for that, but still, I would react violently to a letter like that.

  4.  #4Jacqueline on September 4, 2010 at 8:39 pm

    hi! Jilly, he still hasn’t called you? wow, what a jerk wad!!!! that’s awful…

    Ragnell…lol….I cannot even imagine a guy that verbal taking all that time to emotionally explain his non reasoning. Thought it was kind of funny, and her short and sweet dump him perfect.

    My experience is waaaay more along the Jilly line….

    All yall take care, and have a nice nite!

  5.  #5Jacqueline on September 4, 2010 at 8:41 pm

    and I just did another 3 hour transcript – so the actual Scot McKay – and male vs feminine stuff, etc. is on the blog now. He’s like the best male voice I’ve ever come across….hope you all like it!

    on all of us – if you click on our name, it takes you to blog….

    Jilly….do you even want to talk to him still? not sure I would!

  6.  #6Jilly on September 4, 2010 at 8:45 pm

    Thanks Jacqueline….ya I’m kinda in shock still! I am going to forget he even exists starting right now!!

    you’ve had a guy just disappear on you? I’m going to go check out your blog!

  7.  #7john on September 4, 2010 at 10:23 pm

    ooooh my god!!!!! girls, its not men vs wemon,,, get a clue, we all want to be happy,, thats all… stop anallizing and playing your games, be yourselves and have fun, thats all he wants, have fun, have fun, have fun………………………………..

  8.  #8Daria on September 4, 2010 at 11:51 pm

    wow i just had my friend cook some of the grass fed beef fat i had from the organic farm in marin.

    on the bbq. and it tastes like butter . with bread. and it FEELS healthy.

    i feel like my brain just sang. it felt like honey oozed through my joints.

    i feel overwhelmed.

    like grateful

    and like teary humble

    it was so good

    mmm i felt good

    and i felt like so surprised to suddenly feel THAT good

    everyone didnt know – you want to cook fat?

    and then it turns out to have magical properties for me

    my inner desires knew…


    where did you read that your cells regenerate and this new healthy fat is gonna replace the old toxic fat?

    i dont have to read it

    its how it works


  9.  #9Daria on September 4, 2010 at 11:56 pm

    basically, that fat with bread could feed me for a month.

    and i think it just did. cuz the ohter foods must have been missing something, some amino acid or i dono… i just feel like the lipids in my body have been rejuvenated, like all my joints and brains have been rubbed with butter

  10.  #10Daria on September 4, 2010 at 11:57 pm

    it tastes like butter

  11.  #11Daria on September 5, 2010 at 12:05 am

    i wanna turn into this grassfed cow. its healthier than me!

    like its only ate natural grasses all its life… and it lived like 2 years. mmm. thank you cow

    like every trace mineral my body’s been craving for it got from this cow

    this cow IS nature

    it is a Goddess

    o can see the cow with flowers on her horns, being the earth

    thank you cow

    piece of the cow is a piece of nature. a piece of health
    a piece of wild, yet friendly and relaxed…. well… ok not wild hehe… but pretty chill

  12.  #12Daria on September 5, 2010 at 12:05 am

    the cow goddess… yum, she doesnt mind mellowing out and relaxing in the grass, her body melts into the earth. mooo.. the moon sparkles in her big eyes

  13.  #13Daria on September 5, 2010 at 12:07 am

    i ate the cow i am the cow goddess. now i understand. i love understanding. understaind ing feels good. i feel derision and compassion adn softness for my mental gemini side in love with understanding

  14.  #14Daria on September 5, 2010 at 12:09 am

    is it bad that i eat sacred cow fat?

    am i wrong? the fat skin and bones aren’t as good as the meat to most people/.. even in the greek story

    so why do i crave it?

    i miss it from my childhood

    wheres the marrow

    wheres the chicken legs

    wheres the pork skin with fried smelling hair
    and curl like snail

    gimme beef fat. its gotta be good. that whole cow is holy.

  15.  #15Daria on September 5, 2010 at 12:10 am

    i bet its coming in style . im always avant garde.

  16.  #16Daria on September 5, 2010 at 12:11 am

    im at a bbq and im sitting here blogging and now judging myself for it

  17.  #17Daria on September 5, 2010 at 1:52 am

    oh, i cant have that, i cant do that, that will be hard… low energy.

    oh im lucky , that will get done, i wonder what its gonna be like… good energy

  18.  #18Daria on September 5, 2010 at 1:55 am

    resistance. hard energy

    feminine, soft expansive energy… not holding on to the tight vortexes

  19.  #19Daria on September 5, 2010 at 2:43 am

    I am so lucky! I’m feeling really good and yummy … i’m experiencing a energy shift and perception

    to that of a lucky person

    i am lucky – so things will work out for me, always – because im a lucky person… mmm

    tihs gives permission for my energy magic to work So Effectively right now

    i am blissed out in belief change… and even if my words sounded mumbled, i’m going to be understood by source, and really get a wonderful result… because… im Lucky!!

    omg this is great…

    i highly encourage this thought habit. it feels life chaging, happiness rung hangout lifting to the yipee doo dah

    acuna matata, no worries, im lucky…. i don’t even have to worry tht the word worry felt like low energy… cuz im lucky, i won’t be negatively affected!



    ye e e e e e e ey

  20.  #20BarbinOz on September 5, 2010 at 3:06 am

    OK Ladies, looking for some help here, 9 days ago on the POF dating site I responded to 3 guys who had emailed (2 I have spoken to before). I gave them all my mobile (cell) phone number and here is the result:

    1) W said he would call me last weekend, he didn’t then he sent me a text on Thursday afternoon which I can’t be bothered responding to, to be honest. If you say you are going to do something then you do it in my book (well thats what it taught me in The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz).

    2) I said he would be in touch and he hasn’t.

    3) S never even responded.

    Soooo what now? I have 2 more guys who have emailed since, neither of which I am particularly interested in.

    I got my DVD’s on Friday and have been concentrating on Disc 1 of Targeting Mr Right and really, really trying to get this stuff.

    Rori talks about ALL these men circling you with arrows shooting out to you, and whilst that is a very nice analogy there just don’t seem to be as many guys in my age group out there (I am 57 and am considered to be very attractive, slim(mish) and well groomed, BUT I am not 25 let’s face it, I am feeling a little down tonight about the whole thing and am just wondering if I can even be bothered with all of this stuff. Maybe it’s the whole dating site concept which I don’t really feel comfortable with anyway??

    I work 6 days a week, 1 of them at Sydney International airport, you think I would be meeting all kinds of exciting men there, right? Wrong!!

    I spent a year from April 2009 to April 2010 travelling all over England doing the tourist/work thing, you’d think I would have met somebody there right? Wrong, not a damn one!!!

    Maybe I AM too picky, but hell I don’t want to settle for some old, bald, short fat man and to be honest that is mostly who I get, well that or men in their 30’s who are younger than my kids……..

    Sorry for venting, or maybe this is riffing?

    Just fed up tonight, not psyched up at all 🙁

  21.  #21BarbinOz on September 5, 2010 at 3:08 am

    Anybody know anymore about this Circular Dating YOURSELF? Maybe that’s what I should concentrate on???

  22.  #22Siena on September 5, 2010 at 8:51 am

    Hi Sirens!

    It’s been a while since I’ve been to the blog. I realized yesterday that me dropping off the face of the earth is the same behavior that I feel so bad about when it’s directed to me, so I wanted to take a moment and say hello and goodbye for now.

    I feel silly explaining this, but it feels better than to go away with no word (and some have asked where I’ve been, and it feels good to be missed!)

    The short explanation is this: I need a break from focusing on relationships, and being here every day was pulling me off my road to Happily Ever After. What is it that they say about too much of a good thing?

    One of the great things I’ve learned about myself from Rori is that my boundaries have to be rock solid. I didn’t realize until this year that I pick up very strongly on other people’s emotions, and make them my own. And I feel overwhelmed with it, and start creating chaos in my life because I can ‘feel’ the chaos that I see in other people’s life.

    I love you Sirens – especially the ones who I’ve built relationships with over the months here on the blog, and I hope to see you over on FB.

    I feel a little less womanly admitting that I want to remove the focus from romantic relationships… but I just feel so tired by the whole thing, and I need to take care of myself.

    A couple of months ago, I became very sick – when I finally went to the doctor (I had been trying to fight it naturally, and wasn’t successful) and asked him what had happened, he said I had probably been carrying the sickness in my body for a while, but something happened that compromised my immune system. I’m 100% better now, but the sickness interrupted everything in my life for almost a month… knocked me out of the game, so to speak. Affected my business, my friendships – my entire life.

    …well, that ‘something’ that compromised my immune system was my feelings of anxiety over what was happening in my romantic life.

    I felt blown away when I realized what had happened. I had MADE myself sick because of the bad feelings that I was swimming in. And the crazy thing is, they were not even based on reality. What I mean is that I started to analyze my situation and came up with a bunch of scenarios that WEREN’T REAL! And because I’m so sensitive, I attached emotions to the fake ‘what if’s’, and made myself very sick. No bueno.

    I decided at that moment that no man is worth my health, and that I truly love myself first… which means that I have to do everything I can (even stop visiting this blog) in order to protect myself and remain healthy.

    So, long story short – my focus has shifted. I am CDing still, but saying no to dates. I meet men everywhere I go, and spend a little time with them, and let them call me, etc. I receive their attention and their energy up to the point where it stops feeling good to me. I spend zero energy giving anything to the men I meet.

    Until I meet a man who feels good at every step, I’ll continue to CD like this. I wore myself out and hurt myself by expending too much energy where it didn’t belong. And right now, even going on a simple dinner date with a man ‘because I should be dating’ is expending too much energy for me.

    That will change, I’m sure… It’s just the season I’m in.

    …and I’ll be back one of these days!

    I’m off to get a pedicure… and I’m gonna order the extra foot massage.

    Love and health and happiness and all good things to y’all!

    xxoo Siena

  23.  #23Ruth on September 5, 2010 at 10:41 am

    “you say good-by – I say hello”. Hi, I am completely new to this blog, but have been “eating it up” in the past month. For starters, I want to share with you the discomfort it caused me at first. I think I will feel more free afterwards and I wonder if anybody else felt this way.
    As I was reading through all the various posts and stories of different women in various categories I found myself thinking: “I could have written that” or ” that’s EXACTLY how I feel” or “that’s precisely what happened to me” and so on. And as it kept happening I started getting more and more angry. Why did it make me angry, when I should be identifying with whoever wrote it and feel that I am not alone with all the relationship crap? Why did I feel so resentful when I should be grateful that there are wonderful women, just like me, to share with?
    Well, it’s because it burst my bubble for good.
    Here is an example: Siena wrote about feeling other peoples feelings and it causing chaos within herself. Oh, that is soooo familiar! I always thought that was unique to me, though. I had convinced myself that this was my personal problem, that no one would understand and therefore no one could help and I could just go on feeling sorry for myself.
    And the whole thing about “giving more then we are getting back” – hey, I was supposed to be the most giving, loving, caring, understanding, nourishing woman in the world and if I could only get a man to see that, he would appreciate me and love me and we would have the most wonderful relationship forever. All other women were supposed to be little selfish bitches. (I am exaggerating)
    I am at a point were that makes me laugh, because it seems so ridiculously childish. But I also realize the arrogance in it and how I alienated myself. That’s pretty sad. And now, that I have this off my chest, I can go on and feel good about being normal and hopefully learn to be open enough to share and grow with you here.
    I am 46 and have been married twice. I think it’s time to get it right, finally.
    BarbinOz, I so relate to what you wrote. I am tired of this on-line dating. How does one get through those first stages? Should I date even though I don’t feel like it? And even though I can tell that the guy isn’t for me?

  24.  #24Frenchkitty on September 5, 2010 at 10:42 am

    Rori!!!! I really want to get that ebook now. I’ve tried to order it 5 times and it’s rejected my French card every time even though I know there’s enough money in the bank. Also no luck with your support page. And… these 5 free heart connection tools promised at sign up haven’t arrived. Please advise or get one of your technical staff to contact me. Thank you!!!

  25.  #25Julia on September 5, 2010 at 11:21 am

    Thank you so much for your timely blog.
    Today, I feel pain thinking about my ex, and am tempted to give in and try to be friends.
    It feels so hard at the moment and I feel very lonely.
    I won’t now contact him though.

  26.  #26Lucy on September 5, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    Hmmm. From Christian Carter:

    TRUTH #1: Men Don’t Need To Chase
    It’s been said many times by many people that
    men need to be made to chase a woman in order
    to want her and commit wholeheartedly.

    Not true.

    In fact, this is plain wrong.

    Rather than wanting to “chase” a woman,
    men are humans first.

    Which means…

    They want and need to feel a deep, emotional
    level of attraction for a woman if they are going
    to be moved to want bigger and better things with
    you in their life.

  27.  #27Lucy on September 5, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Siena, it feels so good to hear from you and to hear where you’ve “been” and where you “are.” <3

    I can really relate to everything you wrote! I am trying right now to get more balance in my life too — the main thing being to shift a lot of my attention, time, and energy AWAY from men and dating and onto other things that fulfill me and bless me and share my life and love and who I am with others in a broader way. It's really a challenge for me to make that shift, but I know I need to.

    "Until I meet a man who feels good at every step, I’ll continue to CD like this. I wore myself out and hurt myself by expending too much energy where it didn’t belong. And right now, even going on a simple dinner date with a man ‘because I should be dating’ is expending too much energy for me."

    Yes, that's how I feel.

    Hugs to you! Thanks so much for coming back to share this with all of us!


  28.  #28Lucy on September 5, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    I also especially resonate with this:

    “I receive their attention and their energy up to the point where it stops feeling good to me. I spend zero energy giving anything to the men I meet.”

  29.  #29Jacqueline on September 5, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    Hi, Lucy…..
    so are you resonating with Christian Carter? or disputing him (Scot McKay says the same, btw)….and wow, that seems harsh. I give the waitress at the Denny’s the respect of my time and attention…they often tell me their life stories….would we then spend 0 energy giving anything to anyone we meet? or is this a sort of man bashing?

    I get the quit overgiving, but boy does that feel like a backlash!

    Sienna, and all…
    what do you think?


  30.  #30Lucy on September 5, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Jacqueline, I feel a little confused as to what you are saying/asking.

    Re: Christian Carter — I posted what he wrote because it seemed to contradict what Rori says about men wanting to pursue us — and that without the pursuit, they don’t feel attracted. It felt interesting to me that Christian says men don’t need to chase. So now i feel confused — do they or don’t they??? In a way, I felt relieved to read what he wrote, because WH knows that I really like him and that therefore he doesn’t have to chase me. It feels good to believe that maybe he doesn’t need to chase me in order to want me.

  31.  #31Lucy on September 5, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    “so are you resonating with Christian Carter? or disputing him (Scot McKay says the same, btw)….and wow, that seems harsh.”

    What seems harsh? I feel confused.

  32.  #32Lucy on September 5, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    I feel really horrible reading “man bashing.” I don’t know to what you are referring, but I assure you that neither Siena nor I are engaging in anything even remotely akin to “man bashing.” I (and I’m pretty sure Siena, too) love and respect men. I feel kinda angry and confused about what you wrote. Ooh, it feels bad!

  33.  #33Jacqueline on September 5, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    hey, yeah I noticed CC tends to contradict Rori; the statement I do not give any of my time to men….I’m paraphrasing….seems harsh, and you said you resonated with that.

    What I’m gettting in interview men about what they’re telling other men is that they want the woman to “follow”….check out Scot’s quote, but they are not into the chase in the way Rori defines it, and we use it.

    Now, I’ve dated some really rich alpha guys who without the chase would probably have just stopped in place….lol…but I do believe your average guy needs some definite encouragement, maybe simply because of all the “rules” going around for dating?

    So, my not so alpha guy is out there rebuilding the garage, and even HE followed me across the kitchen when I did the step back….lol…it’s in their dna?

    But, a lot of guys have told me they’re checking us out to see if we’d even be open to dating them, and those guys – probably my guy, too, in the beginning…they have to get some sort of come on, yes I’m interested, but my rule is you’ve got to initiate, or whatever to even decided to pursue you.

    And this goes double for freshly out of a marriage, etc. guys – they are toooooooooo afraid of rejection to pursue in the way we expect/want them to with the tools here.

    The one comment I did find on the internet about Rori’s tools that was not glowing was interesting – it was some guy saying, that will only work on guys with low self esteem. I think it’s the opposite.

    and you?

    Happy day…be in and out checking on new garage and playing cheerleader….grin…


  34.  #34Jacqueline on September 5, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    oh, and you know I realized the whole I’m gonna break your heart disclaimer I come with? It’s my way of NOT getting into the girlfriend trap. But luckily??!!! well nowadays anyway, I also have a I’m high maintenance disclaimer….and now have a new term: high degree of difficulty. I’ve pretty much always had that – well, if you count like calling when you say you’re going to, which some men find difficult. rofl…..

    so I’m not saying pour your heart out to any/everyman, but I am saying some connection to them is simply human. Not a male vs female thing. It’s the polite and socially acceptable thing to do…

    and once you’ve hooked em? disclaimer and small print. hahah

  35.  #35Lucy on September 5, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    “And this goes double for freshly out of a marriage, etc. guys – they are toooooooooo afraid of rejection to pursue in the way we expect/want them to with the tools here.”

    That feels interesting. I got that impression with WH early on, before we met. And then, afterwards, Jason indicated that WH’s pullback might possibly be rooted in fear of getting attached and then rejected.

    So, I feel a lil confused as to how to proceed with him at this point — tools, no tools? Best answer is probably follow my intuition, which is what I am doing anyway as much as possible. 🙂

  36.  #36Lucy on September 5, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    “the statement I do not give any of my time to men….I’m paraphrasing….seems harsh”

    Methinks the problem is with the paraphrase. 🙂 It misses the real meaning and intent of what Siena and I were saying.

  37.  #37Lucy on September 5, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    And…I feel curious about why your filters interpreted and paraphrased it that way….

  38.  #38Jacqueline on September 5, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    probably, I’m reading on the fly….thanks. What I’m getting out of all of this is to focus less on the male/female distinction and more on the human commonalities of we all want to be heard, admired for something, etc. I feel like a whole new world opened up for me when I decided to start checking out the guy’s websites, and then getting to actually have Scot spend 30 minutes with me letting me ask questions? Felt like solid gold!

    carpenter’s helper

  39.  #39Jacqueline on September 5, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    my filters have always been to “encourage” men I wanted to pursue me….otherwise I literally do not look at them, being tall I can just look above their heads. But I find all/most men fascinating….and I really gut believe they have to find us open and encouraging of them to chase us, so the say nothing just look thing is very foreign to me.

    not saying it’s wrong, and it’s waaay easier and more fun and totally avoids any risk of rejection…it’s just not my natural way in the world.. But that’s what I’m here for, to try other ways.


  40.  #40Brenda on September 5, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    Hi I don’t have much access to the internet since yesterday. My Mom reminded me of this song and I thought it was appropriate for Bill. 🙂

    (Written by Laura Nyro)

    Laura Nyro
    The 5th Dimension

    Bill, I love you so, I always will
    I look at you and see the passion eyes of May
    Oh, but am I ever gonna see my wedding day

    Oh, I was on your side Bill when you were losin’
    I’d never scheme or lie Bill, there’d been no foolin’
    But kisses and love won’t carry me until you marry me Bill

    I love you so, I always will
    And in your voice I hear a choir of carousels
    Ah, but am I ever gonna hear my wedding bells

    I was the one who came runnin’ when you were lonely
    I haven’t lived one day not lovin’ you only
    But kisses and love won’t carry me until you marry me Bill

    I love you so, I always will
    And though devotion rules my heart I take no bows
    Ah, but Bill you know I wanna take those wedding vows
    Come on Bill, come on Bill

    Kisses and love won’t carry me until you marry me Bill
    I love you so, I always will
    Come on Bill

    Wont’cha marry me Bill
    I love you so, I always will
    Come on Bill

    Wont’cha marry me Bill

  41.  #41mary on September 5, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    well, i’m just tracking along here.

    running from a guy who is chasing is not sustainable. sooner or later he will catch me. because, oh! i love it when someone is after me… it makes me curious and wanting to slow down and be interested…

    then what?

    i have to just be interesting as hell, have tons of stuff going on in my life, not be derailed by him, and be radiantly, healthily happy.

    that’s what i think, anyway.

    running – chasing – running – chasing…

    girl – boy – girl – boy…

    maybe just flirt? smile, eye contact, long looks up and down, and then possibly keep the humor going? when a guy gets pretty serious with me, and when i think he can take it, i start joking and he usually loves it…

    then i just stay on my horse and keep riding. (Rori’s image there…)

    in my opinion, that’s not running. if he’s riding along beside me, great! wonderful. if not, it’s okay, because what gets me really, really going are those affirmative actions i’m always talking about…

    so the key for me is to have a life worth living, and then just live it and enjoy the people around me – male and female – and especially the ones that respond in kind, like the guys who want to date me, and if some people fall by the wayside, for whatever reason, it’s fine! they’re so many more people out there. and what’s most important is the road i’m traveling… because it’s my life, and no one can live it for me.

    and i can be straightforward and honest and fun and that can all be very, very attractive to a guy…

  42.  #42Lucy on September 5, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    Hi Brenda. I remember that song — we actually had the “45.” 🙂

    Mary, thanks for your points. 🙂

  43.  #43Lucy on September 5, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    I commit to coaching with Erika by the autumnal equinox.

    I commit to cleaning and organizing my work area by Halloween.

    I commit to finishing the final draft of my book by Thanksgiving.

    I commit to losing ten pounds by Christmas.

    I commit to being in a healthy, committed relationship by New Year’s!

    I feel scared and powerful.

  44.  #44BarbinOz on September 5, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    Posts # 19 and 20

    Any help anybody? I feel unheard 🙁

  45.  #45mary on September 5, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    hey Lucy,

    you can do all that!


    and i commit to going digital with all my papers by the end of september.

    and i commit to scanning all of my photos by the end of october.

    and i commit to cutting my budget in half by the end of november.

    and no storage at all by the end of november.

    and i commit to finding a place to live and buying it by the end of december.

    i commit to being completely, fully trained and working as a top quality person in my field by new year’s.

    i feel excited.

  46.  #46Jacqueline on September 5, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    Hi, Mary….waves and jumps! we come from the same opinion school, so not much to add…lol…

    Lucy – I just posted a new true story in Derring Do…you can excerpt your book in there if you’d like, on the blog.

    & Brenda! Wow, that song is now stuck in my head on Billlllllllll…..thanks every so much, lol! Brenda’s gonna be our very own Romance Writer on the blog soon….when we get the story R17??? lol…
    hang in there, girl, and change the song, okay?


  47.  #47Jacqueline on September 5, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    I’m thinking THIS is the best illustration of male/female ever…..reminds me of my friend’s 3 year old boy who once for two hours just kept telling me look what I can do, waaaay after he’d run outta things to do.

    My guy shows me these nice little squares for the now monster garage, and I’m like gee those are beautiful, and then he goes, “just WAIT until you see how big it’s gonna be!” OMGosh,,,,see a little encouragement and what do you get….testosterone! and ??
    they never outgrow it?!

    Lol…off for now, have a good Sun. nite everyone,

  48.  #48BarbinOz on September 5, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    Brenda #38, I prefer that Michael Buble song, “Haven’t Met You Yet” 😀 😀 😀


  49.  #49mary on September 5, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    mmmmmmm… thank goodness for testosterone….

  50.  #50Lucy on September 5, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    speaking of testosterone . . . I’m im’ing with an 18 y o right now! What is it with these boys????

  51.  #51dorothea on September 5, 2010 at 7:24 pm

    “The short explanation is this: I need a break from focusing on relationships, and being here every day was pulling me off my road to Happily Ever After. What is it that they say about too much of a good thing? ”

    I’ve been feeling like this too. And I also feel a little addicted to this blog.

  52.  #52Brenda on September 5, 2010 at 8:05 pm


    What’s the story R17?? You saw the story I sent you in the attachment, right?

  53.  #53Brenda on September 5, 2010 at 8:07 pm

    Dorothea, Ditto. I have come to see you all as precious friends, and I don’t want any of that to end, yet I am leaving key parts of my life…including my POP…unattended. I feel concerned. I really like it here. But I am also not getting out as much either, since I spend so much time here. I guess it’s a matter of finding balance. This is very addicting tho! 🙂 At least it’s one of my healthiest addictions!

  54.  #54Jacqueline on September 5, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    Hi, Brenda….yes, R17 = restricted content…smile.
    I’ll email you on it prob. Tuesday, ‘kay???

    ooops, now that dang song is back in my head!

    Hope you’re having a good holiday – at your moms?

    Night, all….

  55.  #55Jacqueline on September 5, 2010 at 8:10 pm

    ps…it’s weird for me because unless everyone changed their names, some have just dropped off? knocksoftly, janjune, etc. makes me feel sad…and yeah, I spend too much time here too!

    that’s why….lol…I’m saying g’nite. smile

  56.  #56Jacqueline on September 5, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    Brenda…yea, I remember – first I couldn’t get it to open had to uninstall and reinstall open office on this refurbished desktop after laptop blew up – AND I bought two new ones this weekend that wouldn’t work right either! shudder…

    sooooo, it’s really good – I knew you could/would be a writer!!, but yeah, I’m gonna make a “sexier” site, and it’ll fit there, kind of afraid to post it on the achieving dreams thing. Even Athol caused chaos enough, and all he said was he was horny. Sig. other problems for weeks!!!! ugh…

    Did you see Scot McKay’s interview? He is one cool guy!!!

    So, onto ramping up the blog and making new site…talk soon….


  57.  #57Brenda on September 5, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    Well, here’s my cold response from Bill….I texted him Friday evening to let him know I sent him an email. Then I texted him Saturday to say I promise I will never intentionally embarrass him at work. I also said I feel frustrated going on and on in limbo with him. I felt nauseated when I read this:


    I have no issues with your work performance or work ettiquette. I didn’t respond to your text as I’m on holiday with my family and didn’t want to address work issues while on vacation. We can disucuss any concerns that you might have on Tuesday.

    Again there are no significant issues – well one minor issue with Anaira – she has requested that you move your desk. That is a minor thing and I figured we would take care of it Tuesday.

    I would request that you use e-mail rather than my text my home phone. My home number is for emergencies or urgent work related issues. I prefer to handle work issues during work hours unless its an emergency.

    Have a good weekend,


    How do you all feel about that? I don’t buy that about Anaira not wanting my desk across the aisle from her. I think it is about him not wanting me to sit in his area again. I am strongly thinking of going to work tomorrow to move my desk back to the building I was in, even tho I hate it there because I hardly know anyone. I would feel ashamed moving my desk in front of everyone. Any suggestions on that? At the very least, I want to go to work tomorrow (I have off) or super early Tuesday to gather most of my personal belongings, so I don’t have as much to move. Go ahead, say I told you so. One of these years I’ll learn.

  58.  #58Brenda on September 5, 2010 at 9:04 pm

    Bill’s pretentious response hit me like a ton of bricks. He sure can turn the charm on and off in a heartbeat. I feel cold and clammy. I feel horrible, like being slapped in the face for no reason. I feel insecure, and automatically I felt myself tucking my thumbs inside my fists. I dread going to work Tuesday.

    I am trying to think through moving my desk. I think it would be best to move it back to the other building. It sure isn’t what I want or like, but it will be better than having to cross paths with Bill each day. I hate it when people won’t address issues head on and instead pretend they don’t exist. Does he really believe I didn’t think there was an attraction there?

    This is my shared attraction all over again with a married leader in the past. He treated me so special, and my Mom and my mentor didn’t believe there was any attraction coming from him, that I was just making it up, because he was looked up to by the community, and he was married.

    But when it all panned out, I amazingly crossed paths with a woman who had known him for about 25 years, who he had tried to flirt with, too, as a married man. And she confirmed everything I sensed with no surprise…she had seen it all before.

    And, it was because of this past attraction, that went on and on unaddressed for about a year, that I pushed the envelope with Bill. I wanted to be clear one way or the other.

    And, even tho it hurts, really bad, I would rather know where I stand with him rather than him go on and on with this undefined attraction between us. Eight months was long enough. If I just broke a fragile thing, then so be it, he wasn’t the man for me. His loss.

    I’m sure God has a man for me, and there is nothing I can do that will ruin that. I can’t say the wrong thing to the right man. If Bill is acting, and I do mean ACTING, cold, then that makes my job easy, as Erika said. I know he isn’t the one. And that doesn’t change the fact that there is the right man out there for ME.

    I feel so hurt. I feel like numb rubber. I feel shame and embarrassment. I am weary that it seems almost every circumstance in my life is tied with shame and embarrassment.

    I am at the diner to use the internet. I am sitting at the very booth where Ryan and I took turns writing that romantic poem line by line. It was the most romantic thing a man ever did with me. It was one of the best days of my life. Ryan said he moved to another town about an hour away. I don’t know if it’s true or not, because he’s known to lie.

    So many things remind me of Ryan. I am glad I left my phone home to charge, because I’d be calling Ryan right now if I had it here.

    I am such a bundle of emotions.

  59.  #59Daria on September 5, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    Brenda – ok. now think about… why did you want to send out something to him worded that certain way. are there certain things in that way of communicating with a man — that appeal to you?

    is it to test his depth? or does it feel good to share things of yourself that feel scary?

    can you translate what you want to keep from that style of communication —

    to feminine feeling message lean back communication?

    because surely somethign attracted you to write that letter and send it right? then you can keep the stuff you like about that, and incorporate that with the new way of communicating…

    thats what i would do. i once wrote a boyfriend that was pulling away – a very romantic letter … the only time i ever have… – about how i shouldve known from the first day we met we were meant to be together, and that being with him is liek heaven, . it felt really good to show him how i felt in that part of me that felt special with him.

    and then he dissed me because he was already withdrawing and i was chasing.

    luckily , i – self involved even back then ! ha take that – copied the letter and still have it! its BEAUT?IFUL! i love it as a piece of art… of me FOR ME

    but it’s not the most beautiful love poem, art, or sincere showing of my pain that draws a aman in.

    its leaning back and being an invitation and warm when he initiates, and open… not judging, speaking only the truth to my best, and speaking kindly to myself and others.

  60.  #60dorothea on September 5, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    hugs brenda. love you mucho

  61.  #61dorothea on September 5, 2010 at 9:14 pm

    brenda, i am feelin a little confused. what did you say to bill to begin with that this was his response to? that is, if you feel like sharing and talking about it. i know you’re feelin shaky right now.

    hugs hugs hugs

  62.  #62dorothea on September 5, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    ohhh, i see…did you send him that letter that tinque suggested you not send?

    i feel like crying.

    and i don’t want you to run away from me or this blog right now or feel attacked because you sent a letter than pushed a man away and we are all trying to pull you up out of the water and onto the warm sun-baked rocks on our island. we are all learning here. i am guessing youre processing this all and it feels like swimmy head awful but in the end you will feel like “lesson learned.”

  63.  #63Brenda on September 5, 2010 at 9:20 pm


    Thanks, it was in the last thread:

    Hello Bill,

    I feel weird writing what I’m about to say, but I feel uncomfortable not knowing what you think. I wonder why you distanced yourself between Thursday and Friday. I am not talking about cancelling lunch out with the group. I understand that. But you seemed distant today, and that is what I sensed. I wondered what changed between yesterday and today? Is there anything you want to say to me? I’m feeling confused. And I don’t want to feel this way unnecessarily.

    Please excuse me if I make you uncomfortable by saying this, but the only thing I could think of was that I was on the phone loudly this morning talking with the help desk trying to get my name change ironed out. Just for the record, I talked loudly because when I used my “office voice”, the man on the phone said he could barely hear me. I hope you didn’t think I was trying to have you hear.

    I detest dealing with stuff like this, because inevitably, it’s a hassle, and I feel so frustrated when it can’t just be simple. So I procrastinated it since May, when I originally went thru the name change process. And I waited until a day when I could be on the phone without bothering too many people. So I spent an hour on the phone with three different people. And, after all my effort, they emailed me case closed. My name is still MarriedName on Outlook.

    Just for the record, I was married from 2003-2006 to a man in prison, so it really was just a marriage in name only. I have never even been alone in a room with him, and I never knew him outside of prison. My divorce was final in September 2006. I didn’t change my name until last August because he convinced me to leave it MarriedName, since inmates are treated better when the staff at the prison know they have family on the outside.

    I am attaching my old and new licenses. If all this is inappropriate, please excuse me. I just don’t like to be misunderstood, and I have no clue if I am. I suppose you’ll distance yourself all the more after this email, but I just feel frustrated right now, and I feel like testing out my theory that if I found a new job, that maybe I wouldn’t forever be kept at arm’s length by you. I’m just a girl here, and I’m doing my best. What do you think?


    I welcome any and all feedback on how to respond to him when I see him Tuesday.

  64.  #64dorothea on September 5, 2010 at 9:29 pm

    please forgive me if i sound tough, and please consider listening to me with an open mind and heart.

    you basically went way too far and bill is handling it with class. well, as much class as he can, considering that the only “positive” response would have been “brenda, i love you and you should quit your job so we can date.” Which is not happening right now. So he handled this pretty gracefully.

    If it were me, when I saw bill on tuesday, I would tell him that I feel embarassed that I let my anxieties and insecurities get the best of me, and I feel weird now and it would feel good to just move on and get back to work. And then lean way way way back and keep telling myself that unless he is in front of me, he doesn’t exist.

    brenda, you are a beautiful person. you have beautiful eyes and adorable cheeks. you have so much love and nurturing in your heart, and a perspective on life that comes from a truly unique and intriguing set of experiences. I feel horrified that you completely sold yourself short in writing that to him. I want you to stop selling yourself short on a daily basis. There is a wonderful man out there that is looking for a woman just like you. Please don’t forget that.

    oh brenda, i want to cry. and i will literally pray to God tonight that you will start listening to the wisdom of Siren Island that you came here for in the first place.

  65.  #65Brenda on September 5, 2010 at 9:32 pm


    Thank you very much for your feedback! I will take some time to break it down and process it like you said. Basically, I feel a need to explain because I feel chronically misunderstood and thot the worst of by all the world. I have felt a need for a while to let him know my marriage was far from the typical marriage, since it was long distance.

    About my frustration and confusion about Bill, I have just felt a need to push the budding romance one way or the other. I went thru this with the community leader who was attracted to me 4-5 years ago. I was powerfully attracted to him, and had he been single, I would have married him in a heartbeat. It was undoubted that he was flirting with me, yet he never verbalized anything. And, even tho he was married, he gave me reason to believe he was secretly getting a divorce. It was obvious from my first day at his organization that he was not in love with his wife. But it was maddening to go on month after month not knowing why he was flirting with me. I was so admiring of him that it hardly occured to me that he could be flirting with me and intend to remain married. He seemed too perfect to do something like that.

    So there is no doubt that my strong feelings of frustration for a static attraction are tied in with this community leader. Everything in me screams, “No! I won’t go thru this inner torment again! Make a move on your attraction or get out of my life!”

    I am pretty sure I will move my desk back over to the stuffy, boring building where I hardly know anyone. It seems the only thing to do in the face of such cold rejection, right? I mean, I really would appreciate your feedback. I am floundering and now that I’ve embarrassed myself, I’d feel good to at least make a few appropriate moves now.

    I am already jobhunting, and my contract ends at the end of November anyway, so I need to be jobhunting. Shoot, I have a group document meeting with Bill on Tuesday. But I’m going to step up my jobhunting for sure. Just when I was really starting to feel like I fit in.

    When everyone else in the department asks why I moved my desk when I liked it so much there, what should I say? I honestly don’t want to embarrass Bill or hurt his standing at work in any way. I guess just say that I was distracting Anaira? But that feels bad. I don’t know if it’s true. But I know I didn’t get good vibes from her. She probably saw me nodding off sometimes and crying sometimes.

    What should I say to Bill when I see him? How about this?

    “Your email felt really bad. I felt horrible.”

  66.  #66Brenda on September 5, 2010 at 9:38 pm


    Thank you very much for your feedback, suggestions, and kind words in the midst of my buffoonery.

    I feel foolish. Maybe now when I tell you all that I come from a place of being a social retard, you’ll know what I mean. I like your feeling message. I welcome anyone else’s suggestions what to say, too, and I’ll take the best of all, but I think that what you said is just fine.

    And it’s true, that I let my anxieties and insecurities get the best of me. I wish I could afford to quit right now and not even go back.

    You don’t think it was cold that he didn’t address me directly about our attraction? I promise you, I did not make it up.

  67.  #67dorothea on September 5, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    this is a glorious yummy opportunity to sink into your feelings. have you dropped to your knees yet?

    i love dropping to my knees.

  68.  #68Brenda on September 5, 2010 at 9:45 pm

    Since moving back to my old building will make a huge statement to everyone in the department, should I ask Bill in an email before I do it, and hopefully he will respond before I get there on Tuesday so I can move before everyone arrives? I really don’t know if me moving is because of Anaira or because of Bill. Probably Bill. I will hate my job again if I have to move back. I was so bored and lonely there.

    Last night (Sat) I had a total meltdown. I was planning to go to a new night club I found nearby with a live band so I could go out and meet men. So I dressed up and put on makeup. I took my dogs and first went to run them, which I do almost daily.

    While I was there alone watching and listening to the fountain and listening to Delilah on the radio, sitting on a park bench, all my deep, deep feelings of loneliness came up and I just cried and cried. I just don’t feel capable of going on and on alone, and yet I have to.

    What if I give my two weeks notice by faith? That would be really foolish. I would risk my car, home, and dogs. I can’t do that. I will just have to step up my jobhunting. I have to get out of there now. I don’t really want to leave in some ways, because it’s been my longest time at a job since 2002. I’ve been there 1.5 years now. It gives me a feeling of belonging and security to be at a company where I finally know so many people and have friends. I don’t want to uproot and move again, but that’s the story of my life. 🙁

  69.  #69Brenda on September 5, 2010 at 9:48 pm


    I thot you would see that I have been sinking into my feelings with this novellette I am currently writing? I am at a restaurant to use the internet so I can’t really do anything else until I leave, and then I won’t be on the internet. But I have been releasing emotions left and right all weekend by myself, outside mostly. I also had a meltdown when my Mom and I were next to my car in front of the nursing home. I just starting bawling my eyes out that my nieces and nephews have grown up without me being able to have a real relationship with them because my brothers and their wives have unkindly kept our contact to mostly holidays. Now they are growing up and busy and the cat’s in the cradle and the silver spoon…

    But yes, I’ve been processing all weekend. Just got this email from Bill since I arrived at the restaurant. Ugh. I really appreciate you giving me your input.

    I am sick of life being so hard.

  70.  #70dorothea on September 5, 2010 at 9:51 pm

    brenda, i am not an expert or a coach, but i would not email him. i would spend some time on my day off tomorrow looking for new job prospects, updating my resume, and all that jazz. maybe cleaning up my living space a little so i can feel good and open.

    then i would go to work on tuesday and say nothing. when he comes through i would let him know i feel pretty embarassed for letting my anxieties and insecurities get the best of me when i contacted him, and that it would feel really good to just move on and get back to work. maybe he will tell you to move buildings. if he is your supervisor, you’ll have little choice. maybe you could walk up to chick’s desk and say “why do you want me to move?” point blank.

    everything is going to be okay. it really is, brenda. don’t quit your job over some silly social gaffe. everything is going to be okay. and you have us here to talk to. everything is going to be cool.

    do not shrink. do not twist up and around. do you.

    start freaking listening to us, woman.

  71.  #71Daria on September 5, 2010 at 9:53 pm

    oh yeah! i want to feel heard ! i feel unheard i feel starving for heardness

  72.  #72dorothea on September 5, 2010 at 9:54 pm

    “Brenda says:


    I thot you would see that I have been sinking into my feelings with this novellette I am currently writing? ”

    ah yes, well i am not tryin to say you are not doin something by reminding you that it is a great opportunity:). go home and sink to your knees. don’t avoid your feelings by only sharing them in the presence of others. it is still a wall. i know you are feeling really upset right now and want to post here to avoid being in contact with your feelings.

  73.  #73dorothea on September 5, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    ok i feel like i am overstepping my brenda bounds. i just really care about you. i am feeling worn out and frightened seeing you make moves that siren island strongly advises against. i am feeling untrusted and that feels bad. i feel like i am a big f*ckin joke to someone who doesn’t take my advice and then suffers for it.

    much of this trigger has nothing to do with you, brenda.

    the only thing you should be concerning yourself with is this: HUGS!!! HUGS FOR BRENDA!!!!! goodnight girl.

  74.  #74Brenda on September 5, 2010 at 10:16 pm


    Thanks! I appreciate you saying that was your trigger. Nevertheless, let me say that when you have a certain relational style all your life, as bass ackwards as it may be, it is impossible to stop it 100% overnight. I am working the tools, and I am taking baby steps. I am not perfect. Yes, I wish I had listened. But thanks for loving me anyway. I just hate this in limbo stuff.

    So you don’t think I should move my desk before everyone comes in Tuesday? Okay, I won’t email him.

    I really appreciate all your kindness. I feel hugged. I am not running from my feelings by posting here, believe me. You have no idea how naked I feel when I post my deepest feelings here, or you wouldn’t say that. I feel extra embarrassed with this one since you told me not to send the email.


    Please don’t be mad at me. Were you saying I feel unheard in relation to me? Please see what I wrote Dorothea here. Sometimes I feel an overwhelming need to communicate certain things and I revert back to my old way of relating. I am learning. Please be patient with my process.

    I love you both and thank you again for your support!

  75.  #75Brenda on September 5, 2010 at 10:17 pm


    Happy Belated Birthday!


  76.  #76Daria on September 5, 2010 at 10:23 pm

    whoa this feels weird and guilty to “confess” : and i want to confess it anywa

    i feel resentful being told “please be patient with me”

    i feel triggered and resistant

  77.  #77dorothea on September 5, 2010 at 10:31 pm

    hey i was just sittin on the sofa feeling really awful for being so overpowering with my tone with you, brenda. i really mean well. i’m sorry. i don’t want to make your pain right now any worse. ugh, i wish i were better at this.

  78.  #78Daria on September 5, 2010 at 11:41 pm

    men love the taste of a woman – no matter what we may think in our off moments
    ~ Rori Raye

    – like when he says he doesnt do that cuz ot him its like insides and raw meat

    so what?


    i feel much more confident

  79.  #79mary on September 6, 2010 at 1:22 am

    oh! daria…

    “i feel starving for heardness.”


    oh my


    i love that.

  80.  #80Gigi on September 6, 2010 at 1:53 am


    You got some wonderful words of advice and love from both Dorothea and Daria. So wise to not email Bill and do apologize very simply on Tuesday. Act as if…

    As far as the email you sent to Bill and your thoughts about the attraction on both sides…please consider that even though there was attraction there that a relationship truly builds on what is spoken and acted on (dates, proclamations of interest, attraction, etc.)

    So, while you were feeling the attraction, there was nothing said on either side about where the fun banter may lead. All the added on thoughts were the fun hormones and feelings that were building inside of you. You know how Rori talks about the imaginary relationship.

    So, again please keep in mind that I understand that you were sharing all sorts of energy and feelings, it is impossible to know what his thoughts were of where things would go. Plenty of people flirt with no actual intention of taking it further because it is just so much fun to do it.

    I remember Rori (I’m pretty sure here and perhaps someone will remember) having something about a year or so ago about how we are actually physically attracted to anyone we have close feelings about (both men and women.) So, again I have no doubt that you both shared attraction. And, yet one still has to go through the process of seeing if that attraction means it is about dating or friendship or marriage, etc.

    So, even though you felt you were 8 months into a relationship with Bill, you still needed baby steps about checking out what his feelings were about you. It feels to me like you jumped in with the thoughts that he had been on the same page with you – 8 months into a relationship.

    So, while you were cding in the Rori method, which is so great, you were having so much fun imagining your relationship and what you wanted out of it. But to be fair to Bill, neither of you had spoken about having a romantic relationship together.

    And, I can see where you have grown so much on this blog. As Dorothea said I don’t find what Bill said to be cold at all. Please be kind to yourself and take the high road here and try to be calm and do little.

    Your natural instincts were to act as if you were truly both aware that you were in a romantic relationship and now you have been rejected and want to pull way back. It seems to me you have had so much fun with Bill and come so far. If you can just see that you stepped beyond in your head and heart where it was in real life at this point, you may be able to see that Bill is acting classy. And you too can act classy by not overreacting to his email. Please be kind to yourself and your little girl inside. You deserve to stay in that building unless you are told otherwise. This is a great chance to grow. Everyone here wants you to succeed!

    Hugs to you and please understand I’m trying to help you to feel good and get what you ultimately most want!


  81.  #81Gigi on September 6, 2010 at 2:02 am


    I also want to add that it is still possible that Bill is and was interested in a romantic relationship with you. It’s just that one cannot assume that what we feel is the same and in a similar manner within someone else. Also, not everyone wants a romantic relationship or marriage, etc. Had Bill ever expressed what he wanted in his personal life?

    Okay, I will stop for now and send you my best thoughts!

    Hugs to you!


  82.  #82Cinnamon on September 6, 2010 at 3:34 am

    Jacqueline – the comments about ‘encouraging’ a man really interest me. I feel interested to understand how you can offer encouragement without leaning forward and then feeling bad?

    My ex has done a couple of things which feel like he may be trying to reach out to me or maybe thats just my hopes wanting it to be so. We have been split up now for a few months.

    For example we were both at a big party on Thursday and he sent me a text aferwards saying it had been lovely to see me and I looked nice ( the nice and lovely comments were an ‘in’ joke). We had a quick chat whilst there and I leaned back and just chatted to him even though I was desparate to do more. He has also put a few messages on facebook which only I would understand including one basically saying he was missing me.

    I am trying to do no contact so I haven’t really responded to any of it other than ‘liking’ one injoke comment he put up on fb.

    On the one hand he hasn’t been in contact saying he wants me back. On the other he sent me a text a few weeks ago saying my match profile sounded like he was my ideal man which felt really bad to me so I responded saying ‘don’t worry I have zero romantic interest in you anymore and my ad may sound like the person you think you are not the person you actually are’ I was so angry that he had read my profile but also commented like that.

    So, how do I offer encouragement now without leaning forward and throwing myself of my bridge? I really feel drawn to emailing him asking why is he putting the comments on fb especially given my previous comment to him.

    But maybe he is just after an ego stroke of wanting to feel like I am still missing him (which I am but have given no sign to him). How can I encourage him without compromising my own dignity and feeling crap?

    <<>> to you Brenda. The sirens are being really wise as always. xx

  83.  #83Cinnamon on September 6, 2010 at 4:56 am

    Knocksoftly, I agree I want to be a prize he needs to win but if we take into account Christian & scotts comments – do they need to also know you are a prize they CAN actually win?

    Guys are human too with the same insecurities so if I do nothing then maybe he will just believe my last comment stands – that I’m not interested in him anymore? Feeling really confused now. Maybe one little feeling message just so I don’t always wonder ‘what if’

  84.  #84Brenda on September 6, 2010 at 8:46 am

    Dorothea, RE: #73 – I really felt your love and hugs coming through. Thank you. I didn’t feel harshed on by you.

  85.  #85Brenda on September 6, 2010 at 8:51 am

    Gigi, RE: #76 – “So, even though you felt you were 8 months into a relationship with Bill, you still needed baby steps about checking out what his feelings were about you. It feels to me like you jumped in with the thoughts that he had been on the same page with you – 8 months into a relationship.”

    No, I did NOT feel like we were 8 months into a relationship. I felt like we were 8 months into a mutual attraction, and I felt frustrated that he wasn’t manning up and taking it somewhere. I am a good people reader, if nothing else. I was not imagining that the attraction was mutual.

    Thank you for your caring words.

  86.  #86Brenda on September 6, 2010 at 8:59 am

    Gigi, RE: #76 – “If you can just see that you stepped beyond in your head and heart where it was in real life at this point, you may be able to see that Bill is acting classy. And you too can act classy by not overreacting to his email. Please be kind to yourself and your little girl inside. You deserve to stay in that building unless you are told otherwise.”

    Yes, I agree that I stepped beyond my head and heart where it was in real life at this point. And, this is the juncture at which I have always felt deep confusion in relationships. So I am learning. And thank you very much for your softness in reminding me how much I’ve grown already.

    About staying in the building, I was thinking it would be a very big act of LEANING BACK if I were to leave the building (like Elvis 🙂 ). Then he wouldn’t have to cross paths with me in the hall, break room, copier every day.

    As far as logistics, Bill is NOT my supervisor. MM is. Bill originally invited me to sit at the unused desk. A week after I moved, I ran it by MM, who said, “Oh, I don’t care where you sit. Just so long as you realize the other department has the right to ask you to move at any time.” Technically, I am not allowed to change where I sit. So if I moved back to the other building, I would be where I am technically supposed to be. When everyone asks me why, I would simply say, “Facilities told me I had to be at my assigned desk.” My desktop is still there, and I’ve been working from my work laptop.

    I would feel humiliated and ashamed moving desks in front of everyone and having Bill decide. Early on, we had joked about “banishing” me back to the other building. It would hurt if HE told me to go there. But I think if I moved there early tomorrow morning, before everyone arrives, I would feel better not drawing all the attention of moving everything (everyone would notice more).

  87.  #87tinque on September 6, 2010 at 9:09 am

    Brenda – If I may add my thoughts on this; though you sent the e-mail after all, so what.
    Why would you move your desk? You did nothing inherently wrong. You were brave and bared your heart. If anything this is something of which to be proud. Takes courage.
    I would suggest going in to work tomorrow holding our head high. Say nothing to anyone about any of this. Not Bill. No one.
    And carry on as any other day at the office. If B comes by, smile and say hello. That’s it. Simple and clean.

  88.  #88Brenda on September 6, 2010 at 9:13 am

    Here is an email from a man I just “met” Friday the 3rd on a new dating site I just joined. This sounds REALLY fake to me. You gotta consider this is his third email. We have yet to talk on the phone. My emails were both brief because I was responding late at night. Hello?? If only this were Bill…LOL!

    “Hello , I just see myself keep searching for your email and believe me i am getting so acquainted to you . Ever since we started sending the recent messages we’ve sent to each other…I’ve been so much thinking about you and to be sincere i am thinking about you.Wow! So here I stand, among the digital masses. We’re not so different after all. Here I stand,surrounded by people who’ve met on-line, People who’ve loved and lost, and people who are found, and somehow, in a desperate world, found each other. So what do I say that hasn’t already been written, or been already said? Hmmm, pretty tough! Okay… try this: I no longer need to hope for love by going to clubs, (y’know I can’t dance!) supermarkets, church socials,by passing notes in class as a kid, or instant messages as an adult. I don’t have to search for love, in ads, on the internet, in chat rooms, text messages, camera phones, faxes, and e-mails. I don’t have to wait for good and bad feedback, have to need a good laugh, wait to talk, be told to shut up, look for hope, pray for a miracle, wait for an angel, see hope for God’s love here on earth, wish for a special friend, crave for love’s passion, envy other’s romance or wonder if someone will ever love me. Thanks for coming into my life Hugs and Kisses
    Since i first viewed your profile, i felt a great impulsion on me and ever since then i have been thinking about you , i thought you might be an end to my search or to say a realisation of my dreams because you are just what i am looking for and you know when i keep reading from you , i feel that is coming to be true and i pray and hope it does.I will go on the site and delete my profile because this is what i have been searching for the past 18 years and i would not trade this for the whole world , so i want to see where this go and being a one man woman , i will give this a total chance and i am sure it will take me to where i want . I hope you have done the same and delete your profile on the site to see where we go from here so we can concentrate on each other and see what we have for each other…When I was a little boy,I dreamed of that one person that I would share my dreams, happiness and energy with … I could not see her face but she was there. I always felt like she was out there, I just needed to feel her. I visualized the bond we would have and the courage she would give me to endure life’s obstacles.. All these years I was with others, and feeling my way through life, learning lessons that later on would prepare me to become the person that I am now. I have felt alone and sad. Then one day my eyes opened and I became that little boy again … realizing that she is here now. Here in my world was the woman that I had dreamed of and I’d hoped would not miss our meeting in life … That woman is you.”

    We’re half married, you see, after 2 email exchanges. Does it sound fake to everyone else? I’m going to give him a feeling message about not wanting an email-only relationship. That will tell me if he’s a scammer from Africa. I really wish I didn’t have to waste my time on this bullsh*t.

  89.  #89Brenda on September 6, 2010 at 9:18 am


    Wow, that is big of you for being so kind, when it is YOUR advice that I disregarded. Thank you. You are very sweet. That is very forgiving and nonjudgmental of you. I feel deeply touched and tears are in my eyes.

    Yes, I definitely need to heal (false) condemnation and shame inside. It runs deep, for as long as I can remember.

    Bill said in his email that Anaira, who sits across the aisle, requested that I move my desk. I have been getting cool vibes from her, and I can sense there is something she doesn’t like (Kenny said, “Ok, so she’s a straight bitch! That doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with YOU!” And I agree).

    So I am going to have to move my desk anyway. Since he’s clearly stepping back, wouldn’t it be stepping back for me, as in feminine waterwheel leaning back, for me to move to the other building?

    But thank you again…I DON’T need to be ashamed. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!

  90.  #90Erika Awakening on September 6, 2010 at 9:21 am

    Little bit different take on the “let’s just be friends” scenario here …

    I consider friendship to be the stable base of ALL of my relationships with men.

    Vegas Guy and I have agreed to “just be friends” about a dozen times now … it just never sticks, lol, and each time we decide it, our relationship actually moves forward instead … I contrast this to how I handled a similar situation 1.5 years ago, and I see now that all I needed to do in that situation was be “non reactive.” Instead of freaking out when the relationship “took a step backward,” I simply could have been unfazed, and very likely that relationship would have continued moving forward also …

    This has been an authentic shift for me, not something that can be “faked.” I truly feel neutral about it when we take a step back, and that’s what is allowing the relationship to stabilize and deepen …

  91.  #91tinque on September 6, 2010 at 9:27 am

    Bren – It’s really hard ignoring the voices inside our heads, even when we know they don’t always act in our best interest. I understand this well.
    You move your desk. You don’t move your desk. It’s done before anyone comes in. It’s done in full view of all. Whatever. Just keep your head high.
    As for the other e-mail. First of all it’s filled with grammatical awfulness. And yes I would be wary of its content too.

  92.  #92Brenda on September 6, 2010 at 9:28 am


    Thank you! Not sure if you were saying that in reference to my friendship with Bill or in response to the lead post. In any case, I see what you are saying. Bill is the one who feels uncomfortable and awkward for our unspoken attraction to be (**gasp!!**) verbalized. Let HIM sit with HIS uncomfortable feelings.

    I admit, I was leaning forward to kick it into high gear, and I wish I hadn’t. But it is what it is. It could result in a deeper relationship if I go right back into lean back mode. My blunder was to move too fast, NOT in baby steps. Now that he tells me Anaira has an issue, maybe she told him I’m dozing at my desk or crying at my desk or doesn’t like it that he comes and chats with me almost every day and it distracts her. Who knows what she told him?

    I just need to quit wondering and worrying about what anyone thinks of me (even Daria! >;-P ) and just stay on my bridge and do what I know I should do as a leaning back woman.

    I feel tense and trying to relax about this.

  93.  #93Brenda on September 6, 2010 at 9:30 am


    Thank you! All right, I am going to get therapy in holding my head high by not moving my desk before they arrive. I will look Bill in the eye and ask him where he wants me to move my desk.

    I am reminding myself this is all therapy.

  94.  #94tinque on September 6, 2010 at 9:32 am

    Yes Brenda, YES!!!

  95.  #95Brenda on September 6, 2010 at 9:37 am

    I am reposting this announcement about Erika offering a free teleclass with us for Holistic Belief Reprogramming, in case anyone missed it! She is targeting the weekend of Sept. 22-23. Please email me if you are participating when would be a good time for you, and what your time zone is. She is in Pacific Time Zone (the same as this blog).

    Also, feel free to email me anonymously if you don’t want anyone to know you are participating.


    You may remember that Erika said on Friday she has an idea of something she would like to do (for free). When I didn’t see anything more about it, I emailed her and asked. Here is her idea…

    She is open to doing an HBR call (probably 90 minutes) with the Sirens!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    She said we can do a general anger release and positive reframing of beliefs session … She doesn’t have time to organize a group, so I offered to do that. She is going to run a teleclass… She can take questions beforehand and answer them on the call … She can take a list of limiting beliefs and frustrations collected from the whole group and use that for tapping sequences.

    The basic idea is that this is an opportunity to check out HBR for free in a group teleclass. Everyone would tap along and benefit from the call. Erika’s suggestion for a topic is Clearing Anger and Limiting Beliefs About Men, but she’s open to other topics if there is a different consensus.

    I asked Rori about it, and this is what she said:

    “Hi Brenda, This is Rori – I’m totally fine with whatever you wish to do – I love EFT and the HBR that Erika has developed from it (I love and know Erika, too), and would be fine however you wanted to handle it…I assume it would be some kind of conference teleclass – and if you’ll let me know when it is, I’ll try and attend. I can’t help you organize – but you have my blessings to do whatever you’d like…feel free to put the link up somewhere in a comment….Love, Rori”

    We would need to do the call an evening or weekend Pacific time after Sept. 12.

    The next thing, if you want to do it, is to email me if will commit to join us on the call. After we have a cohesive group, I will provide details and set up the call itself. This week is extraordinarily busy for Erika, so she is leaving it entirely in my hands to recruit people.

    This is an exciting opportunity to discover new ideas towards being our best selves! So what do you think?? Please email me at mistywindfall@earthlink.net if you would like to participate!


  96.  #96lm on September 6, 2010 at 9:49 am

    my ex told me last night that he is ‘super-attracted to me because of my emotions’.

    i still feel bad around him and sort of scared of him, but it feels nice to hear.

  97.  #97Lizzie on September 6, 2010 at 9:58 am

    Hi sweet Brenda – I am deeply saddened by the turn of events with Bill. The sirens have provided insightful and beautifully thoughtful advice – I can feel the caring for you.

    Now then, my take – DO NOT MOVE YOUR DESK!

    Ok now that I have yelled at you, phew.

    It may be symbolic. I believe there is a point in which the sinking into yourself and feeling confident can be played out by living confident. How is that for a mouthful. So, to me, moving the desk feels like a move generated by fear hiding itself in embarrasment. Tuesday, you have the opportunity to hold your head with pride. Keep you desk where it is, say good morning to Bill the way you usually do, follow the advice provided by the sirens. I don’t believe you will be “stuffing” your feelings if you do nothing – to me a conscious decision to be tactful and self-dignified is demonstrating self-confidence. Go about your work and continue to look for a job.

    I believe in you.

  98.  #98Sandalwood on September 6, 2010 at 10:17 am

    Hey Brenda,

    I thought I’d chime in because your story reminds me of something I did once.

    This was 7 or 8 years ago in high school. Do you know the movie Adaptation? If not, it’s a movie with Nicholas Cage playing Charlie Kaufman, who is an overweight, neurotic, self-loathing (and also extremely famous) playwright who is trying to turn a book about plants into a movie.

    Anyway, there was this guy I had the most gigantic crush on who was also my friend. We were in the same program, so we were always in classes together. I liked artsy movies, and I knew he did too, so I wrote him an e-mail telling him that I liked him and that we should go see Adaptation because it sounded interesting. It was also a situation where I thought there was a chance he liked me back, but I wasn’t sure.

    He wrote back and said he couldn’t go see the movie because he hates Nicholas Cage! What a way to get rejected. Of course, we had to keep going to the same classes, and we were still friends for the rest of high school, even though I would have liked to be done with it.

    Naturally, I didn’t end up watching Adaptation right away because of all the negative associations. When I finally did, several years later, I found that there was the most awkward scene in the universe where Charlie Kaufman takes a blond female violinist friend out to the symphony and, after the date, he asks her if she wants to come inside, and it turns out that she had had no idea it was a date in the first place and that she finds the idea of going into his place profoundly off-putting.

    I guess it was at that moment that I became really thankful he didn’t take pity on me and watched the movie with me anyway.

    I hope this makes you feel better,


  99.  #99lm on September 6, 2010 at 10:38 am

    brenda, i’ve worked with dudes that i’ve been involved with and this could be GREAT dignity practice! walk tall and get into your work. dress up every morning. smile and genuinely have a good time. it’s worked for me and i’ve been in some hella awkward situations.

  100.  #100Jacqueline on September 6, 2010 at 10:59 am

    Hey!! Knocksoftly!!! HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU!!! confetti, roses, champagne, and ummmmm…..well, let’s stay with cake, what flavor would you like and what IS the icing on the cake?!!! Very good to hear your voice and waving hello at you….Happy b-day song.

    @ Cinnamon – my advice is not based on the tools here, so I limit it…lol…in order not to get rotten tomatoes thrown. I have a lot of experience with men, Rori even encouraged me to write/start the blog, etc. so I think I have very valid points of view, but a different point than what is written. That said,
    YES YES YES …..if you want them you HAVE to let them know it is possible to catch you. I have been called “sophisticated,” since 6th grade…some kind of vibe I put off. I have tons of tools and tricks for success with guys that I’m gonna tie into my blog – the blog is Liveyourdreamblog.com and the website will be lifesdreamcreations.com. For now, tho, if you wanna write – I’m at houstonrelationshipsurvey@yahoo.com, and would like this chance to write out/solidify some of what my message is going to be.

    to Lucy, et. al., what I like about “tools” is there are different ones for everything! so, you can use a hammer and a nail, or a screw and a screwdriver…and I mean a tool for every little thing, literally, as new garage is almost built with a vast array of all kinds of who knew? tools…
    and that’s how I look at every tool here, something Rori’s given me that if it fits the situation I can use.

    Thanks, all!

  101.  #101Jacqueline on September 6, 2010 at 11:02 am

    @ Brenda – I want to say something no one else is saying and you will not like, but I said it the other day. For me, listening to you describe Bill and your interactions, and after 8 months of nothing outside of work….I believe he is an imaginary relationship for you, if he were willing to risk anything he would have stepped up, he was nice to write you back but very distancing and okay, hold your head high, etc. but he still mentioned moving your desk. I don’t know if he can make you do so, but if he could, and it were me – I’d do exactly what you originally thought. Get the h**** out of there, see if he walked to the other building to come to me. It would also avoid the pain of crossing paths with him daily, too.

    Yeah, for self esteem, but more importantly – VASTLY more importantly – yeah for success at our jobs!

    with love,

  102.  #102Daria on September 6, 2010 at 11:09 am

    I feel triggered reading that success at our jobs would be more important than our self esteem. I don”t feel successful at my joblike moneymaking enterprise and I feel vulnerable saying that… But… I just want to move away from that in my life and believing something could be more important than me and how I feel about myself….

  103.  #103tinque on September 6, 2010 at 11:16 am

    Though being successful at a “job” is part of who we are as women, it has never been for me anywhere near the most important thing.
    Yes it feels good to make money. But it feels far better being able to help another being in pain.
    It feels the best of all allowing vulnerability, opening my heart, feeling it full, full of love and passion included.
    If I had to choose between a career and a beautiful relationship, the relationship would win hands down.

  104.  #104Daria on September 6, 2010 at 11:26 am

    Brenda – I feel angry and attacked put down and judged about the… “even Daria” type of comments. I dint like vein stereotyped as a judger… It’s not getting by me that it’s a dig at me just cuz it’s said as a joke

  105.  #105Lucy on September 6, 2010 at 11:52 am

    Brenda, I agree with Tinque and the others who are saying what she is saying. My two cents. 🙂

    Daria and Brenda, I feel bad seeing this little conflict. I wish I could just say a surrogate, “I’m sorry” to you, Daria, because I know that Brenda didn’t mean to hurt you and that she loves and respects you.

    I feel weird and scared jumping into something that is not my business.

  106.  #106Jacqueline on September 6, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    hi again! I agree relationships are important, in fact I spent a good 30 minutes last night worrying Brenda would QUIT her job on faith!!! over this, so it’s not that I don’t care, I don’t agree, and you know – all sides of an issue can be somewhat valid, it’s for Brenda to decide if she wants to hear what she wants to hear, or hear someone else’s point of view – and it surely doesn’t mean I don’t care about Brenda, or I would not bother to post it.


  107.  #107Tina on September 6, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    Daria, I feel the same way about my moose 🙂

  108.  #108Erika Awakening on September 6, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    Thanks, Brenda, let me add that we’d be aiming to have the teleclass on Sunday, Sept. 19. Brenda has done such a good job organizing that the class is already full, but we are still willing to take a few more Sirens on board just in case not everyone can join at the same time for the call … and because, well, the more the merrier! 🙂

    As we get closer to the date, we will be polling all the Sirens who are participating to get a sense of the “hot” themes in the moment, and that’s what we will focus on for the class. So please be sure to let Brenda know when you sign up what your “hot” issues are so we can tailor the class to what will be most helpful for everyone.

    Some suggested issues are: releasing anger and judgments about men, transforming limiting beliefs about men into empowering beliefs, feeling more fluid and natural with Rori’s tools and being a Diva, and so on …


  109.  #109bea on September 6, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    hey rori,

    thanks and thanks for expanding on your answer. still trying to breathe through all this and trying to focus on other things in my life, cding, working the ebook, etc. but it’s hard, as pat allen’s 8 week mark approaches, not to hope he’s missed me and calls. and yes, i’d have better boundaries next time with him or someone else.

    erika #88,

    i totally get where you’re coming from and i considered that but since he said he didn’t want to be romantic and sexual with me while i know i feel romantic and sexual towards him, i didn’t feel i could handle it. perhaps you’re stronger than i am but i certainly couldn’t handle hanging out with him both knowing that i couldn’t express how i feel in a way that was romantic or sexual and knowing that he would be dating and sleeping with other women. i’d be curious to hear your experiences with l.v. guy in regards to this.


  110.  #110Frenchkitty on September 6, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    Erika, post 88.

    Thank you for that very interesting perspective… I am starting to feel you are right, looking at my own “just friendship” that never remains just that. It’s just moving into a new cycle and I will try really hard to be non-reactive this time (not my nature, I have to say! Way too impatient!), and not freak out (too much)… It does get easier when you know he’s already changed his mind about it several times…

    Bea post 107:

    Having said all that, you’re right it feels like the pits… but if you don’t see him you can’t change his mind… And do you know for sure he’s sleeping with other women? Or are you just assuming that? (I’m asking because I used to assume that about mine… but in actual fact he’s just too freaked out by romantic sexual stuff per se, not just with me… and when he disappears into just friendship mode once more, he’s either with his kid or his mother or his friends, not out chasing other chicks… took a while for me to figure that out)
    I know the misery and I’m fighting it daily at the moment. But isn’t the point of this website that in principle we can get ANY man we want?!

    The question is this: Do you want a specific kind of relationship or do you want THAT SPECIFIC GUY?
    I want the guy. The specifics of the relationship can be worked out later. I’d rather have a crazy relationship with that specific man than a perfect one with anyone else. And if I don’t see him it’s never going to happen. And he’ll never get the benefit of all these new siren skills I’m acquiring…teehee…

    Let me know what you decide…

  111.  #111dorothea on September 6, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    I didn’t start having positive relationship experiences until i transformed my beliefs about men and relationships… it is no primarily about the man himself. That is secondary. Primarily it is about having a positive, good-feeling relationship. Of course I fall in love with the man himself, so that is a close second, but if he doesn’t do the job of relationship the way I need him to in order to feel good and safe, then him being an awesome person isn’t going to be a bandaid for that serious short-coming for very long.

  112.  #112Daria on September 6, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    yeah i ‘had to’ intially then chose to swich my view from desiring men to desiring a relationship

    that pulled men in, of course

  113.  #113Frenchkitty on September 6, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    Hmmm… Dorothea… 109

    I get your point but I can’t say it’s true in my case. When my adventure with Monsieur Catastrophe started, I’d just come out of an 18 year marriage, and I wasn’t looking for ANY relationship. Actually I was planning to make up for my “lost youth” and shag as many cute guys as possible. Then MC and I became friends, then lovers… but we never had an exclusive contract (although in actual fact neither of us has slept with anyone else). We got very close, he ran away, we fell out for a while, he came back, we were friends again, then lovers… and somewhere along the line I realised I loved him…. and so it goes in cycles… but like in Erika’s example it does actually progress every time, like two steps forward, one step back… Whatever the connection is between us hasn’t been fully explored or resolved or anything… so I can’t think of it in terms of “this relationship isn’t 100% happy 100% of the time, so I’ll quit and find another guy”.

    It’s not about him being an awesome person. It’s about the connection. It’s about wanting to KNOW this person. I don’t need to be in any relationship at all. But I choose to continue seeing him because I want to know HIM.

    I’m sorry, all this is quite clear in my mind but it comes out all messy here. Do you know what I’m trying to say?

    What do you mean by “doing the job” in a relationship?

  114.  #114Frenchkitty on September 6, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    Hi Daria…115…

    You see, that’s the difference. I DON’T desire a relationship per se… I desire the man…I think he has trouble understanding that though, and automatically assumes because I love him I want to take away his freedom; and then the just friends bit kicks in. That’s why I’m on this site! To find a way to communicate to him that there’s nothing to be scared of…

    And I have already been married… that was mostly positive even if it didn’t last forever…but “forever” is such a long time.

  115.  #115dorothea on September 6, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    I totally know what you’re trying to say! I don’t mean that it needs to be 100% happy all of the time…just that he needs to desire and pursue a relationship with me, because if he isn’t, then I am doing the chasing and pursuing and hoping and wishing and holding on and needing and clinging, which is not in my job description as goddess and siren. That is why it is not about the guy first and foremost. It is about his willingness to step up and pursue me. It doesn’t matter what our connection is or how wonderful and amazing he may be, if he’s not fulfilling this basic role then I must say NEXT!!! Doing the job includes pursuing a relationship with me, making me feel good, and moving us toward a stable situation that feels good for both of us, whether that’s consistent dating, if that’s what i want, or marriage.

  116.  #116Erika Awakening on September 6, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    Hey everyone, I only have a minute but I saw these last posts and felt touched and inspired to respond …

    Dorothea, #114, yes yes, that so resonates with my experience too. Holding my vision first and foremost and changing my beliefs about men … changed everything.

    Bea #112:

    “erika #88,

    i totally get where you’re coming from and i considered that but since he said he didn’t want to be romantic and sexual with me while i know i feel romantic and sexual towards him, i didn’t feel i could handle it. perhaps you’re stronger than i am but i certainly couldn’t handle hanging out with him both knowing that i couldn’t express how i feel in a way that was romantic or sexual and knowing that he would be dating and sleeping with other women. i’d be curious to hear your experiences with l.v. guy in regards to this.”

    A year and a half ago with my last relationship I felt the same way, it’s only now that I got the emotional “charge” out of my body that got triggered by that whole situation (using my HBR system) that I can have similar things happen now and respond in a completely different way.

    Here’s the thing with VG. I never asked him to be exclusive. Mainly for my own reasons. My life is so full right now with quitting my job and transitioning into coaching full time and all the friends I’ve made in the community and finishing up my dream house … and then I remember the pain from making different choices with my ex … I simply decided very firmly that I don’t want to spend even one iota of emotional bandwidth worrying about what VG may or may not be doing with his free time. My philosophy was, “Until we are married, it’s his business, and I’m not going to worry about it.”

    The paradox of this attitude is this: if you saw my most recent blog article, he told me the other day he hasn’t been with any woman since he met me two months ago. He volunteered this, I didn’t ask. Because I sincerely don’t care. Not that I don’t care about him. I adore him. I think he’s the most solid man I’ve ever been involved with. It’s just that my emotional equilibrium is so high on the feelings scale now that I have an organic unwillingness to spend any time in things like jealousy or possessiveness that would not feel good. Does that resonate at all?

    As for how to get to this space, it took me a while. And after growing frustrated trying one modality after another without success, I finally developed my own holistic system of emotional release and belief system transformation, and that’s what finally freed me from having neediness and fear and outcome dependence with men.

  117.  #117Frenchkitty on September 6, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    Hello again Dorothea…

    yes that I do understand. And I am absolutely not going to be the one chasing him this time. I’m bored with it. Luckily he’s broken his phone so I can’t be tempted to call him (“You can call me on my mother’s phone”, he said, and I said, “OK” but thought “NO WAY!!”). Judging by the last meeting, though, it won’t be too long before he shows up and I can try out some more of Rori’s lovely tools on him. I was quite amazed how a couple of feeling messages changed his attitute halfway through our last meeting, so now I’m determined to siren him into oblivion!!!

  118.  #118dorothea on September 6, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    erika, i love it. i never asked for exclusivity either, nor did i ask him to stop talking to all the other ladypotentials in his life. I did tell him it felt uncomfortable for me to know he was talking to other women, and he made the choice to zero in on me all on his own. Not demanding or asking for what I really want paradoxically gave me what I really want. It was my confidence to say something feels bad, and his observation that I am so confident in my feelings that if something doesn’t feel good, I might be outta there real quick, that inspired him to do this.

    i think my LI and VG are rather similar the more I read about VG. And I think we are going about the situation much the same way.


  119.  #119dorothea on September 6, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    i love your energy. i’m sure things are gonna work out great for you, and like you said, you’re getting bored, so even though this guy is amazing, if he doesn’t “do the job” then you’re going to end up yawning to death, and you’ll move on.

    Are you circular dating at all? Or circular dating yourself? I love doing either of those things because it keeps our vibe balanced, and creates a space for a man to feel compelled to fill.

  120.  #120lm on September 6, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    dorothea – 118:

    awesome. this is awesome. i like to keep old bfs or flames in my life if i don’t feel like i need them. it’s always good to have a guy who likes you around, right?…but if it’s too fresh or too hard i have to cut them out completely. this last one was too hard and i said ‘i don’t want to be your friend. it would feel too bad. i still have feelings.’ and lo and behold, my life has taken an amazing turn for the better.

    AND now he keeps trying to get back with me.

    AND random, amazing men are super-into me, guys that are totally top notch – one owns a music studio and engineers all of my favourite band’s albums (i bought an album he produced when i was still in high school half-way across the country!!) and a really hot guitarist from another band (who is a little too much of a bad boy for me right now).

    and all i did was smile, drink some wine at a bar and have a good time.

    rori rocks!

    men really do fall out of the sky when you take a look at the clouds for a moment.

  121.  #121dorothea on September 6, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    yes, rori has completely changed my life.

  122.  #122Frenchkitty on September 6, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    A space for a man to feel compelled to fill… that makes me think of something entirely different….

    I can’t say I move in circles where people date much, circularly or otherwise. I live in France and I don’t actually think there’s a French word for dating. I hang out with people, friends and friends of friends, and of course there are guys and I’m a pretty attractive woman even if I do say so myself, so I generally get bought drinks and sometimes I flirt… is that circular dating? And to be honest sometimes I don’t go out, because I’m sick of guys trying to pick me up. If I found someone I wanted to shag, I’d do it. But looks like I’m pretty fussy…

    I’m actually generally quite BORED with men… Yawn again…

    And MC is not amazing… or perfect… although he is very beautiful… but he’s a contradictory, fascinating, somewhat tortured human being that touches my heart…

    I know, I know… pass the sickbag

  123.  #123dorothea on September 6, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    ohhh, i spent some time in paris, and my organization’s webmaster lives there, and i understand what you say about there not being “dating” in france.

    i always got the impression that whatever “dating” was in france was inherently circular.

    Your english is better than any french person I’ve ever talked to, haha!

  124.  #124Frenchkitty on September 6, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    OK sirens… It’s 3am this side of the Atlantic and I’m signing off now… just to thank you, you’ve all cheered me up tremendously tonight… and I think I will sleep well tonight… I hope to speak to you all again soon.

    Love & kisses

  125.  #125Frenchkitty on September 6, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    P.S. Dorothea, I love you! You are so right about the French! Six degrees of separation my foot… here it’s more a case of three shags of separation, if that…
    Make sure you log on soon I’ll be looking out for you! By the way, I’m not French, I’m Austrian but spent half my life in England… like to think of myself as a citizen of the world…

  126.  #126Ragnell on September 6, 2010 at 9:50 pm

    I got fed up. I wrote this:

    It is now clear to me that you don’t enjoy my company and now, on top of that, I am afraid that you’ll yell or be rude to me. I can’t make you care and I can’t make you listen. If you want to mess it all up then it’s up to you, but don’t drag me down. I’m tired. I’m fed up with being polite and smiling and pleasant. Don’t tell me it’s all ok, or that there’s no problem, or that I shouldn’t worry about it. Don’t you even dare accuse me of being overly dramatic I don’t want a forced friendship where I can’t even speak my mind. I don’t want any uneven relationship where I hold no power and the terms are decided by someone else. If you want to be cruel and distant and unavailable, then don’t pretend you are anything else. Be that way, by yourself, to yourself. Don’t direct that bitterness to me. I am not willing to take it anymore. It hurts. It stresses me out. I’m not gaining anything from you and I’m not getting any good feeling about you. I’m done.

  127.  #127Jacqueline on September 6, 2010 at 10:03 pm

    Hello, Ms. Frenchkitty….love listening to you! and welcome, I’m Jacqueline and I am following along here..IM too….

    Ragnell, I really really like that!!! I am kind of developing a set of break up tools that are different than what is used here, and your message sounds exactly what I am telling my girls.

    I know it’s not feelings, etc. but it is powerful! It is clear, it is simple and any man alive should be able to hear it as long as you meant it completely truthfully. I’d love to talk to you more if you want to email – I’m at houstonrelationshipsurvey@yahoo.com. I want to work on developing this technique and so far, two women are using it with good results for themselves…no matter what the guy is or is not feeling/doing, it’s working for them and their “evolution,” for lack of a more coherent word.

    Night all….take care!


  128.  #128Ragnell on September 6, 2010 at 10:16 pm


    Truth is, even though I do feel the way I have written, there is a part of me that hopes something romantic will magically happen between this guy and I. I feel foolish for believing this. I am telling myself that if it’s not feeling good RIGHT NOW it will not feel good in the future, no matter what kind of reaction I get from him. This imaginary relationship, the limit of being “just friends”, is tiresome and wearing me out. I could accept being friends if that was what was offered in the first place. I don’t want this silly and unfullfilling friendship as an unspoken substitute for the romance I want.

  129.  #129Jacqueline on September 6, 2010 at 10:33 pm

    yeah, I know!!! and that’s why I’m working on this – it’s what we all want. I know Rori says closure is way overrated, but I find women cannot seem to move on – we get stuck like the computer circle when it’s trying to come on, huh? that’s why I want to work on an idea I have that’s helping some people….but not here. You are having the same thoughts and feelings that most of us have when we can’t get the relationship we want! so you are not alone…if you want to talk more, email me. But I knew that underneath it there was this…it will depend on whether he knows it, too I guess – either which way, I hope you’ll keep me/us updated on the story, and for tonite? just let it go and get some rest, ‘kay?


  130.  #130Nikita on September 6, 2010 at 11:55 pm

    Be surprised
    Be surprised
    Be surprised
    I hate surprises.
    Be surprised
    I don’t want to be surprised
    I want to know.
    I don’t like surprises
    Surprises are good
    Be surprised
    I feel confused
    Hey!you can’t just change your mind overnight!
    Be surprised
    Be surprised
    Be surprised
    But what if you aren’t telling the truth
    What if you’re lying to yourself and you think you’re telling me the truth?
    What do you mean I was right? Huh!
    Be surprised
    Be surprised
    Do I smell Denmark …..
    Be surprised
    Be surprised
    I don’t want to be surprised
    I’ve never liked surprises…
    Let yes be your yes…..and make damn sure
    Your no is NO!
    Be surprised
    Be surprised
    I feel antsy
    I feel angry
    I like predictable
    Be surprised
    I don’t wanna be surprised!
    But you said you felt……….
    And now you’re saying……..?
    I don’t know how I feel….
    I feel like a wild animal..pacing….sniffing….waiting…pacing
    Be surprised…..
    I feel annoyed….
    How do I trust that……..that stupid 180?
    WTF was that…….you want to be with me?
    Are you sure…..because ……well…….I don’t like surprises.

  131.  #131Nikita on September 7, 2010 at 12:12 am

    I apologize for saying your 180 is stupid….it’s just your 180…..even if I feel a little awkward witnessing your 180, it doesn’t make it stupid….it’s just yours. I accept your 180…and you.
    I still feel a little uncomfortable with surprises…..but
    That’s mine and I can own it.
    I love my hating surprises feelings.
    I love my hating feelings
    I love my annoyed feelings
    I love my paranoid I’m being tricked feelings…
    I love my WTF is this bs magic carpet ride crap feelings..
    I love these facing the echo feelings.
    I love my get me the f*ck out of groundhog day feelings.
    I love my staring down the mouth of the echo lion feelings
    I love my take it or leave it feelings
    I love my totally nonchalant about us feelings.
    I love my distrustful feelings…because no one knows what they want….I mean men don’t know…….feelings
    I love my fear of projecting my feelings feelings.
    I love my ef. U. Feelings.
    I love my my lonely scared feelings.I love my fear of always being a loner feelings….I find it hard to love my
    ” loaner” feelings….that feels really scary and a little exciting…. I love those anyway.
    I love my achy muscle feelings….
    I love my need to exercise feelings…
    I love my guilt for not exercising feelings…I love my wanting cookies feelings…
    And pickles….and celery in pickle juice…..and strawberries….and wanderlust ……
    I love all of my feelings…..and I love the ugly ones twice as much and three times as hard….because I just effin feel like it…..

  132.  #132Nikita on September 7, 2010 at 12:20 am

    All of my feelings are beautiful…….because it’s my Show! And I said so!!!

    Hello beautiful feelings….Behold…..I love you…

  133.  #133Daria on September 7, 2010 at 12:21 am

    Love you too Nikita!

  134.  #134BarbinOz on September 7, 2010 at 4:13 am

    Once again ladies on my post #20, I feel bloody ignored and unheard. Is that because I am not sooooo cool as Daria, riffing all over the place or as vulnerable as Brenda, letting all the whole world know who I am? Can you not just reply to the average Joe? Do we all have to be superstars to be heard?

  135.  #135Ragnell on September 7, 2010 at 5:05 am


    You mentioned the 4 agreements. Well, the first one is not to make assumptions, and not to take things personally.

    Be well.

  136.  #136Ruth on September 7, 2010 at 5:23 am

    To BarbinOz #20 & #137

    I hear you. Ooh , do I hear you:)
    I guess you have to be part of the crowd, an insider in order to be heard.

    I actually referred to what you wrote, but it took forever to be published. And I don’t have any answers, but I feel the same way about on-line dating. It’s really hard to get over the first few stages. I find that it is good sometimes to be a bit more flexible and make an effort to meet, even though the first phone impression may not have been so great. I feel that it is easy to over-interpret behaviour and make too much of things they say or don’t say. There may be a fantastic guy in there, but he is so nervous on the phone and wasn’t really himself. I would really love to hear some of the “experts” here though.
    Also, I think that blind dates are emotionally stressy and everybody has to know how much of it she can handle. The problem is I usually have too many at once or not enough. And then what? Date everybody just to practice? And can I really practice on a guy I don’t really like, when I’m not half as nervous as I would be if I did?


  137.  #137Frenchkitty on September 7, 2010 at 5:29 am

    Hello, BarbinOz!

    That’s terrible nobody should feel ignored here… so I apologize for myself anyway! Maybe we are all just too wrapped up in our own crazy stories. That said, I don’t really know what to say to you. I’ve no experience of dating sites – don’t like the concept myself. Actually I don’t like the idea of turning looking for a man into a full-time occupation. In my experience guys always turn up just when you’re NOT looking for them. My problem seems to be how to handle them when they do!
    Having said that, my sister just married the love of her life… who she met speed dating, of all places. That seems quite simple and painless.
    What I would say to you though – if you get contacted by guys in their 30’s, why not give them a try? Have a wild fling if you can’t imagine anything long-term. At the very least it’s going to give your self esteem a boost and probably give you an erotic vibe that will attract the guys you really want. My auntie is 53 and always has a few men on the go at the same time. One of her lovers is 25.
    I can’t hang around on the blog right now, it’s 14.26 in France and I need to get some work done. But I’ll be back later and promise not to ignore you!!! And I find your story AT LEAST as interesting as the serial riffers…

    Love & kisses

  138.  #138Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 5:44 am

    I decided to do what Tinque suggested and just stay at my current desk until Bill tells me where to move. I came in at 7 am and spent an hour packing my desk and wiping all the drawers and surfaces down. It is all packed and on a cart, ready to go. All I have to do is pick up my bag after I put my laptop in it.

    I asked the lady across the aisle why she wanted me to move and she popped an attitude with me. She said you don’t belong here. Where is your assigned seat? I told her my supervisor said I could sit here. She said well I like it the way it was. I am used to being back here alone. She said it snobbily, and I can see she’s a straight bitch underneath all her pleasantries. I have never had anyone tell me to move my desk because they don’t like sitting next to me! She said I don’t want to fight with you! Stay if you want! I said I’m not fighting. I merely asked why you wanted me to move.

    Actually, I am happy. I felt bad vibes from her all along. She seems judgmental and is always looking over my shoulder. Bill isn’t here yet so I still don’t know where I’m going to sit.

  139.  #139Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 6:12 am


    RE: #107 – That was not said as a dig at all. I’m going to be real candid here. By nature, I am a people pleaser. I am learning to not be, but when I love and respect someone, as Lucy accurately stated I love and respect you, it matters to me what they think of me. I feel bad that you seem upset with me over this latest occurence with Bill. I feel embarrassed that I want your approval so much.

    I felt bad when you said me asking you to please be patient with you was a trigger. I didn’t say anything wrong. I am not the enemy. I like you and I love you.

    Is it possible that your limiting belief is that everyone is against you and out to attack you? I often feel like I have to walk on eggshells around you.

    BTW, on a light note, I got a kick out of your red stuff on your blog! I passed a car yesterday with a red kayak loaded sideways on a car roof. When I saw the bottom of the kayak, I thought of you and laughed like crazy! 😛

  140.  #140Lizzie on September 7, 2010 at 6:18 am

    Brenda, that woman is mean – absolutely no person on the surface of earth should be treated that way. I am sending you a loving smile 🙂

  141.  #141Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 6:20 am


    #100 – Thank you so much! What you said in combination with what Tinque said resonates most with me, and so that is what I’m doing.

    I really appreciate everyone’s support and advice, even if I did not do what you suggested. I feel so buoyed up coming to this Island, and you are beautiful ladies with so much insight and wisdom and compassion!


  142.  #142Jennifer on September 7, 2010 at 6:22 am

    Brenda…I feel so sad for you. Sometimes women can be nasty to other women…it’s like they can’t just vote for themselves..they have to UNVOTE for you. I hate that. Its childish. Disagreeing is one thing..nasty is another. I had a woman whom I shared a table with at a factory yell at me one time cause I was STARING at her. We worked on opposite sides of the table, that was the set up. See? Sometimes ya just can’t win for losing. And its not about you. Imaging how many NV’s she must have. EWWWWW………..
    Speaking of NV’s…mine are lingering again.
    I got new matches on eharmony…one guy looked interesting, good job, good pics, ACTUAL hobbies…so I leaned forward and started the get to know you process. And he promptly closed the match.
    Now I feel all rejected and stuff.
    Then I was reading a romance novel and the dude in there was fantastic (like all romance novels) and I got triggered by fantastic men.
    I kept thinking about B abandoning me…and then the NV’s started in about I’m the kind of woman that men abandon…they just leave. Then don’t feel protective, they dont’ feel connected, they dont’ feel like I’m a forever woman. They just skim over me.
    The only men who want me are men who can’t stand on thier own..who need financial support and emotional support to make it in the world, men who need mommies.
    Now I feel rotten.
    I asked the NV….how come I have to be the woman that men abandon? Why isnt’ it that B is the kind of guy who abandons women…any woman when the going gets sticky? How come its alwasy gotta be about me not being right somehow, or not enough or not ok, or not vunerable enough or not pretty enough or not interesting enough. How come?
    They didnt’ have anything to say about that.

  143.  #143Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 6:22 am


    I felt shocked about her wanting me to move. I really didn’t enjoy sitting next to her because of the bad vibes. But that is high school stuff, saying, “I don’t want to sit next to YOU!”

    I have made friends with most of the people I sat next to elsewhere in the company (they moved me around a few times with various projects before I landed on this document project with Bill in Dec).

  144.  #144Lizzie on September 7, 2010 at 6:35 am

    Barb on Oz – Greetings from the Great White North! Here are my insights on on-line-dating:

    – we human need a minimum of 3 sources of communication signals in order to understand a message – that would be any of the following in any combination: voice, sight, body language, tone, lilt, timber, content etc. as we need to gather the emotion or sentiment as well as the content. On-line communication is only 1 source of information – words on a screen
    – our brains then invent the rest because we need it to have understanding
    – the longer we spend on reading on-line messages from a potential suitor, the more we invent their personalities, looks, emotional state until we have created the most marvelous creatures on earth! magical!
    – keep in mind all people do this – that includes men 🙂
    – the telephone gives a little bit more information – but again it is not as good as in person and unfortunately if we have never actually met the person, again the brain will invent qualities of the individual
    – if a person has incredibly well developed listening skills, they will be able to more accurately label the emotional messages that come across by telephone; others will just get a feeling – the vibe – and say “oh, I don’t know, it just didn’t feel right…”

    It is within this context that we are trying to actually meet people – and it is incredibly difficult! I like to think of it more this way. Remember when we were young and in school or at a school dance? We would walk into the room, do a scan, pick-up a vibe, and zero in on maybe one or two guys that tweak our interest? Then we would do all the “dance moves” to attract their attention and away we went. All was good! Well, remember, there were 100 guys in the room! Or 100 guys at the bar! we would pick a select few to hustle.

    Now we are on-line. It is the same thing only it takes a huge amount of time to scan 100 guys and select the one or 2 we want to hustle and there are HUGE barriers to actually meeting the guys because our brains have so happily gone on to base number 10 and added and invented all kinds of qualities these guys may or may not actually have.

    Among my friends – they tell me they met 40, 80, 140 men before they found their match.

    Wow was it ever easier back in the day!!!

  145.  #145Lizzie on September 7, 2010 at 6:47 am

    Barb in Oz – I am continuing ….

    – on eH the first time I was on the site – 2 years ago; I was matched with 400 men over the course of the year; was contacted by 1. Yes only 1!!!; I met him, we had a little fling.
    – on eH the 2nd time around – which is now, I have been matched already to 85 – I contacted 3; and have met 2 only last week (oh, heaven help me!…. but I did have a nice time and because I am not invested in the process, as a result of practice CD, the dates were quite lovely)
    – on POF – I cruised over a 2-year time frame; met about 20 men had a 2nd date with 2 men – one is still on my “list” and I refer to him here as Family Guy and most would say to walk away from him but I am no longer invested in the outcome and if he calls me for a date, I will see him again
    – I was on all the other sites as well and NOTHING fruitful.
    – Have done speed dating twice; laughed my head off; dated one guy once
    – joined a singles golf gang – have only met women and only played golf with the other women who also joined the group to guess what? meet men and have guess what? only met other women – LOL! But, did we ever have fun on Sunday…the golf course was so difficult we bought a bottle of wine on the 6th hole and laughed our way around the course for the rest of the game and I ended up finishing with a 86!! Like how did that happen!!!??? (It was an executive course so in reality my score would really be a 96 but that is still good!!)

  146.  #146Ruth on September 7, 2010 at 6:48 am

    Thank you so much Lizzie.
    That was some great insight. It’s a bit disillusioning, but actually encouraging to know that you can still meet Mr. Right after 100 blind dates…..

  147.  #147BarbinOz on September 7, 2010 at 6:56 am

    Thank you ladies for your replies, first let me say I was placed in moderation because I changed my avatar, soon changed back as I sat in limbo for 3 days…..

    Ragnall # 138

    Yes you are correct, don’t make assumptions, and don’t take things personally, but sometimes that is a bit hard to do when you feel like a voice in the wilderness and on the outer. So Touche, and thank you for even noticing what I said about The Four Agreements, so easy to understand but not always easy to live by.

    Ruth and Frenchkitty # 139 and 140

    Thank you for your replies, my God this dating thing is sooo hard to do the RR way, its made me look at things in a whole new way, before RR if I didn’t get a response I wasn’t bothered and believe me there have been many who have passed through (though no George Clooneys or Brad Pitts LOL) but now I am supposed to engage one and all they are all soooo remote and non-forthcoming well how the hell I am even supposed to START CD’ing??

    BRENDA BRENDA BRENDA, you did nothing WRONG except maybe be a little vulnerable and are probably feeling embarrassed, but what the hell, sit down, do your job and say nothing…..

  148.  #148BarbinOz on September 7, 2010 at 7:03 am

    Lizzie #147 and 148

    thanks for the insights about online dating and for some GOOD laughs, OMG its so hard out there, if we didn’t laugh we would cry 😀

  149.  #149Mercedes on September 7, 2010 at 7:08 am

    Rori: “You go from pain to pleasure.

    The length of the journey, the time you spend at each stop – that’s up to YOU”

    I love this as long as we are committed to moving beyond those “stops”…sometimes, we have to force ourselves to move on because we can become “stuck” in one place. Moving from one stop to the next in our journey from pain to pleasure can be a very beautiful process…but only if we continue to move and refuse to stay stuck in misery or anger or hurt or grief (whatever the stage)…only if we make every effort to keep moving.

    Thank you for this post…it was lovely.

    Much Love,

  150.  #150BarbinOz on September 7, 2010 at 7:14 am

    Lizzie, I did reply to you but dont know what happened as it has disappeared??

    #147 and 148

    Thanks for some insights into online dating and even more THANKS for some laughs……..MY GOD it is soooo bloody hard to do and to keep interested and motivated……..wishing those arrows RR talks about would hit me all over the place……sigh….

  151.  #151tinque on September 7, 2010 at 7:14 am

    BarbinOz – I feel badly you have felt ignored. I did see your plea for help, and I was hoping some of the ladies here with internet dating experience would chime in since I have none.
    I met my man the old fashioned way, on a blind date where we discovered we had know each other ten years before. Actually he knew who I was all along once my identity was revealed to him.
    What I’m getting from you, and I apologize if I’m misinterpreting your words, is you seem to have a lot invested in finding your “the one” instead of just being open to whatever happens wherever, on the job, at the store, out and about, or on an actual date.
    Try just being curious. Be curious about who this person is in front of you whether it be a brief encounter in line at the bank or a long chit chat over dinner.
    Try putting aside any thoughts of whether this man could be “him” and simply enjoy him for what he has to offer in any given moment.
    I think Lizzie put it well in saying she goes in without investment. Her mind and probably her heart too remain open to possibility.
    Does this help?

  152.  #152Erika Awakening on September 7, 2010 at 7:15 am

    Hey Nikita,

    I can relate to the mixed feelings about surprises … I noticed when I explored this that in my family growing up there was not ever pleasant surprises. Nothing was really celebrated, and I received gifts like a stapler for my birthday. My dad has never given me flowers in my entire life.

    So … I’ve been doing work on my belief system around this issue … creating new beliefs about surprises always being pleasant, wonderful, exciting, happy surprises …


  153.  #153Erika Awakening on September 7, 2010 at 7:17 am

    Excuse me, I received a stapler and a three-hole punch, lol, and I think it was a significant birthday like sixteen. I do appreciate those gifts, still have them today, and yet there is a part of me that felt so horrified when I unwrapped them, and so sad about the lack of celebration and honoring (and fun) in my family.

  154.  #154Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 7:18 am

    Ok, ladies, are you ready for the drama of all drama on Siren Island.

    Bill is gay.

    I feel horrible and embarrassed and sad and disappointed and angry and shocked.

    He was VERY nice about the whole thing, and he said I can sit wherever I want to. He just took me over to the cafeteria for coffee, and he was so, so kind. He was doing most of the talking and asked me a couple times, “Is there anything you want to ask? Anything you want to discuss?”

    Everything in me wanted to shake him and say, “WHAT’S A HANDSOME HUNK LIKE YOU DOING WASTING YOURSELF ON BEING GAY????”

    But I said, “My mind is going 100 mph right now. I really can’t think of anything to say.”

    So we talked about life at our company, and he made me feel totally at ease. He was so considerate and gosh, I like him more than ever for being such a sweetheart. But I have a new gay friend.

  155.  #155Erika Awakening on September 7, 2010 at 7:20 am

    Looking back, I suppose my mother was terrified of joy, terrified of having, terrified of femininity or fun or frivolity … she felt undeserving, and she passed her undeserving beliefs right on to me … fortunately, I now have a reliable way to rewrite the past 🙂

  156.  #156Ruth on September 7, 2010 at 7:23 am

    O.K., Lizzie and BarbinOZ, everybody… now I am even more insecure about the question I asked before and I really want to know how others handle this: Should I date even though I am sure the guy isn’t for me? I mean, should I just date anyone I can get a date with (from dating site,)? Is that what practising is all about?

    Brenda, I don’t know you and I haven’t read the whole story, but it seems this really gets to you. How about after work you go and do something for yourself, spoil yourself, treat yourself to something you really like, that will make you remember that you are a great and beautiful person, which is really the only thing that matters.


  157.  #157Lizzie on September 7, 2010 at 7:25 am

    Barb in Oz – I am continuing….

    While keeping some perspective, I am the same age as you – 53; men love my hair; just about fall over when they see that I really do look like my photo; I am open, engaging, etc etc. So, much like you. My barriers are all about how much I work and my kids who are still quite young and they are a bit special and one has special needs that can be quite difficult to work with. This has stopped two potential relationships.

    Interestingly, I don’t generally get to a second date and this is generally OK with me as I have usually felt a poor fit fairly quickly – like no vibe whatsoever with the 2 last week. Although I had wonderful vibe from Family Guy and the one golf buddy I met last summer. So, I do know it is possible!

    I have discovered a few things about myself as a result of all this –
    – intellectual horsepower is important to me
    – they have to be taller than me
    – I must feel that they want me and
    – I must feel good when I am with them

    Pretty simple!

    I am giving very real consideration to using a service now. Because:
    – ALL the men I have met online are quite severely introverted and I find that quite frustrating as they don’t seem to be able to extrovert quite enough to step-up; follow-up; make the contact; have anything interesting to say about their life on a date….Their mother’s just didn’t teach them quite enough social skills to carry the date. I find this almost funny because one of the things I do in my real life is teach aspiring leaders how to do social interactions – and I quite love my engineers, scientists, introverts…
    – even the two men that I have had some little bit of a relationship from my on-line experience are introverts
    – don’t get me wrong – I love introverts and probably understand them better than many people do; that doesn’t negate the need for some social skills.
    – many many many of the guys I had thought might have some possibility from on-line, simply will not meet me. I find this astounding. My sister and two good friends find the same thing. We get their private email address or phone numbers and never hear from them again. I am now thinking it has to do with the invented person syndrome combined with the introverted nature of the man and it just becomes too scary to meet the real person.
    – my men friends tell me, the men on free sites lie. I am not so sure I agree. They tell me, they are all much older than they say (I have seen this about 10% of the time), they are much shorter than they say (I have seen this in 95% of the cases), they are still married (I met a few married men – one of whom I did see for 6 months and we had a great time then he went all drama on me!)
    – I give free advice to the cutie young 25 year olds that hussle me LOL! but I am not interested
    – surprisingly (only because so many people have said the opposite) NOT EVEN ONCE have I had a man say to me that he is looking for a younger woman – my experience is that the 50-year old guys are looking for 50 year old gals – they really don’t want the drama that goes with the younger women

    So in the end, there are a TON of men out there. How we find them is a mystery. I think like Rori says, we need to really be out there and use all the sources. It can be really disheartening and exciting at the same time. I have payed a lot of attention to the tips on this blog over the summer and for the first time since my divorce 6 years ago, I feel ready to actually meet someone I could call a boyfriend. So lets see what happens this fall.

    I hope my perspective and experience has helped you with your own reflections.

    Do you have “Just Lunch” in OZ? I am thinking I might try that but it is a bit pricy for me at the moment. It will be my next step – I am not quite ready to shell out the 10K for a dating service (my kids would have to be graduated from university, I would have had my trip around the world and bought a house before I would do that).

  158.  #158Erika Awakening on September 7, 2010 at 7:36 am


    “now I am even more insecure about the question I asked before and I really want to know how others handle this: Should I date even though I am sure the guy isn’t for me? I mean, should I just date anyone I can get a date with (from dating site,)? Is that what practising is all about?”

    I only have a minute right now and … yes … the idea is to date just about anyone. And personally, I would do this alongside reading Debbie Ford’s book The Dark Side of the Light Chasers (which Rori recommended to me years ago) … so that instead of lapsing into a temptation to judge men as “not good enough” for us, we instead are learning from each date more about our Shadow side … and healing.

    With CD, it really helped me to *stop* putting all kinds of romantic expectations on my connections. Especially after I became a healer, this became much easier. When I connected with a man, and it became obvious right away there was not going to be a romantic connection, I still saw value in connecting because I knew both of us would get a healing benefit from the exchange. This eliminated any possible “guilt.” Also … you never know how someone may figure in your life down the road. He may become a friend, he may connect you to other people, he may be a good match for one of your friends …

    The idea is to be open … both emotionally … and from my perspective, open to the possibilities instead of seeing the world through a really narrow “he has to fit my romantic ideal” lens.

    The idea is to learn to love EVERYONE because that’s how we learn to love ourselves wholly, and it’s when we love ourselves wholly that Mr. Right shows up 🙂

    – Erika

  159.  #159Mercedes on September 7, 2010 at 7:39 am

    Ruth: I don’t know what the “right” answer is to your question, but for me personally and based on my history, just so you know…I cannot bring myself to date someone I know from the start I’m not interested in. I can talk to them, email with them, etc (ie practice via email, phone, instant messaging, etc) and if something changes and I do start to feel an attraction, then I’m not opposed to changing my mind, but I could never date someone just to be dating nor could I (in good conscience) date a man I know I’m not attracted to at all.

    But…dating myself while I am open to meeting men I’m attracted to…talking to and smiling at men I’m not attracted to…making new friends (even if I’m not attracted to them)…yeah…I can do all that.

    Hope that helps…

    Much Love,

  160.  #160Lizzie on September 7, 2010 at 7:39 am

    Erica, I think we had the same parents….

    Brenda! OMG!!! OK now, please do not marry him! I was married to a gay guy – doesn’t work. But I tell you – you have the opportunity of a lifetime…he can coach you on relationship stuff like you wouldn’t believe. Gay men are awesome friends.

    Ruth, date everyone!

    OK work now…I am off.
    Brenda, I am still laughing…

  161.  #161Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 7:51 am


    Yeah, that’s a great idea! Maybe after this attraction thing blows over, he will be my dating coach! Oh Lord, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry…I am truly a soup of emotions, and I feel like doing both! 🙂 🙁

  162.  #162Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 7:51 am

    Erika’s addicted to Siren Island! 🙂

  163.  #163lm on September 7, 2010 at 7:52 am

    Erika – 154:

    this is the SAME with my family. they forgot to order my graduation photos, so i have none. i got totally weird gifts too. my mum always seemed really pressured to do nice things or give to us, like she ‘had to’ and they were a source of stress. i sort of shudder to think about that. it’s funny, as they’ve gotten older my parents have become much more kind and giving, but it’s a hard thing to grow up with.

    and i always seem to attract men when don’t give presents or compliments…i wonder now if it’s ME in someway, like i have a belief i don’t need them or just don’t get them.

    wow. can of worms here! 🙂

  164.  #164Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 7:53 am

    I can’t help but laff about calling Bill a “bitch”! Now I feel like razzing the hell out of him and calling him a bitch again! But I won’t! 🙂 He truly is one of my all-time favorite coworkers! I feel sad that he isn’t available.

  165.  #165lm on September 7, 2010 at 7:54 am

    Brenda, just caught up with the bill stuff…omg.

  166.  #166Ruth on September 7, 2010 at 7:55 am

    Yes, thank you, you all helped.

    This is what I’ll do: I will date as much as I can handle – emotionally and time-wise – no matter if I think the guy is “for me” or not. And I will do so with as little as possible expectations, no analysing, just feeling how they make me feel.

    Erica, my mom is totally like that. It feels like I have to learn to love the whole fun-side of being feminine and not be ashamed of it. It’s a constant struggle.


  167.  #167tinque on September 7, 2010 at 7:59 am

    lm – I too had non-verbal parents, no compliments (quite the opposite) little if any support emotionally or otherwise. I too attracted men with qualities such as these.
    When I learned to let go of my expectations, when I learned to hear the words in the actions, not only did I not “need” them so much, they started to show up on their own.
    As for the support part, I had to learn to find this within and through other sources. It’s not that he doesn’t support my dreams and visions. It’s more that he doesn’t know how to express this in words I can hear, so I hear what is there (again more through action) and get the rest elsewhere. Women are much better at this usually ergo, girlfriends.

  168.  #168Mercedes on September 7, 2010 at 7:59 am

    Brenda: I hope you don’t mind me bringing this up, but do you think Bill (and the past 8 months with him) can help you learn about yourself a little? What I mean is…you felt a very strong attraction and with everything in you, you were sure he felt it too. Do you think, looking back (or even talking to Bill about it), you can learn to see where your feelings of attraction are crossed with feelings of friendship coming from someone else?

    I think this could help for future relationships of yours. What I mean is, if your situation with Bill could help you learn to take a step back and rather than see all attention from men as romantic and straight out of a movie (and I mean where your imagination takes you…not where you really believe it was) then it would help you to slow down…give a relationship time to do whatever its going to do…and not invest your heart into someone who is unavailable for whatever reason?

    Just my thoughts…

    Much Love,

  169.  #169Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 8:19 am


    Thank you! Yes, definitely. I never said this directly on the blog, but early on in the friendship, I wondered if he was gay. But as time went by, he seemed very masculine energy to me. It’s really weird, and I will definitely be going through various scenarios in my mind and exploring them in light of this discovery.

    I guess he was just spending time at my desk almost every day to help me feel more connected, after I had candidly shared with him I hardly ever spoke with anyone at the old building, and I was really flat-lining mentally with the repetition of my job.

    He seemed surprised I didn’t know. He said he thought someone in the department would have mentioned it in passing, because he is open about being gay.

    One thing I feel happy about is he was so kind about this and now I have a good friend. And, I value friendship.

  170.  #170Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 8:21 am

    I wish he hadn’t told me “I live alone”. That seemed like the equivalent of saying, “I’m available and single, in case there was any doubt.”

    But this morning he told me he has been on and off with his partner for 10 years, and he mentioned that during one of the many times he flew off the handle and moved out.

    It meant a lot when he started our conversation by saying, “I’ve always enjoyed working with you!” I said the same back to him.

  171.  #171Siena on September 7, 2010 at 8:25 am

    (okay, I’m lurking a little bit)…

    Brenda – girlfriend – you KNEW Bill was gay months ago! You had the intuition – and you were right.

    From my perspective, you ignored that intuition and decided that you wanted him anyway.

    I’m not trying to be harsh, just a mirror – to remind you that you’ve KNOWN what his situation is all along.

    To me, this is a glorious celebration of your Siren-ness. You intuited almost immediately that he was unavailable to you months ago when he first came into the picture.

    Now maybe you can trust that intuition for the next guy and the next and not let your head lead you where you heart doesn’t want to go.

    Yay Brenda! Erika was talking about celebrating – I think you should celebrate this awareness!

  172.  #172Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 8:31 am


    RE: #145 – Thank you! I was just reading your post when Bill came by and got me for a coffee break. Yes, it was totally her stuff. Like I told Bill, I have never had anyone do that to me at a job. There was only one time when I had a share a tiny cubicle with another woman, and she didn’t like me. But again, that was her stuff. She seemed disgusted having to share a cube with me, having not so much as a science degree, while she was a PhD. I was glad when she left the company.

    But anyway, Bill told me this isn’t the first time she’s complained about who she sits with. She has had run-ins with a few employees, and he said he doesn’t think she would be so persnickety if management showed her more appreciation.

    He said it’s better to not sit across from someone like that anyway, because if they don’t like you, they can try to create trouble for you.

    I told him I had had that exact thought, because I felt bad vibes from her all along.

    Ha! So here’s the next question! Do I lean back with my gay friend? I guess I could for practice. But maybe no need now, huh? What do you all think?

  173.  #173Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 8:42 am


    Thanks for lurking! LOL! I miss you on here! Well I just didn’t KNOW. I wondered. Early on, I had asked the administrative assistant of the department if he was single. She said enthusiastically, “Yeah! And he’s a great guy!” Apparently she didn’t know.

    I noticed he pursed his lips, but you gotta understand he’s a large-boned, masculine looking man. The ONLY hint I got other than lip-pursing is one day we (Bill, Matt, and I) were joking about him renting a backhoe to finish digging his French drain. Matt said, “So you’re hiring a ho?”

    We all started laffing, and then Matt said, “What will Peter think of that?”

    Bill muttered, “He wouldn’t like it.”

    I said, “Who’s Peter?”

    Bill said, “A friend.”

    Other than that, all he seemed to be doing was flirting and spending time with me, etc. etc. I ought to find the post I made a few months ago when I pondered it. I didn’t mention his name. I just asked how do you know if a man is gay.

  174.  #174masculinewoman on September 7, 2010 at 8:47 am

    Hi Brenda,

    I have followed the drama with Bill. I have to admit that I felt you were a little over the top in your excitement about him. Writing this I feel my bitchy critical voice and tingling in my body. Seems I get a high from being critical. Thanks for helping me to find this out about myself. Just to let you know I have a gay friend who I accidentally got very close to because I listened to him at Level II unintentionally and reflected back to him what I thought he was feeling. This caused him to come completely close to me, speak his disclaimer that he was anal, which I did not comment on. As we got closer he would always hold me hand and try to touch me which I did not stop because I was totally leaned back unconsciously as I was dating someone else. He told me “I am going to marry you” which I did not respond to either and we have been close friends since then. I think he feels more understood by me than the others in our mutual circle of friends. The message to me in learning about myself and relationships is that I can attract unavailable men, the leaning back can work with any man and it has caused my self-esteem to skyrocket knowing that I can attract unavailable men to that extent. It has also helped me to feel like a rock star CDating as he has showed me I can improve my relationship skills and test them without feeling threatened or overwhelmed by someone who is coming too hard at me because I do not view him as a threat. As a matter of fact I have rejected him but still stayed conencted when he wanted to. For me it has created an open space of freedom.

  175.  #175Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 8:54 am

    Mascluline Woman,

    thank you for sharing that. I hope my friendship with Bill grows. I feel good that we trust each other. He is one of the best allies I’ve ever had at a job.

    As for me being over the top with my excitement, I have had few real romances, shockingly few considering I am 46. I think in some ways my emotional self is like a 16 year old. In many ways, Ryan last year was my first love. So many of my “firsts” were with him.

  176.  #176Ragnell on September 7, 2010 at 8:56 am


    I can relate to what you are saying. I dated a guy I was not very interested in. It was an interesting experience, but I was not exactly thrilled. However, I did learn a thing or two from him. So even though it didn’t work out between us, and a second date is unlikely, going out was helpful because it gave both of us a better idea of what we wanted.


  177.  #177masculinewoman on September 7, 2010 at 8:58 am


    Trust me some of my story is very similar to yours just that I am 49 and never been married but have 2 children. I am learning about myself and the world of relationships now. I am committed to being married and recently told the main man I have been dating since Jan 2009. He told me he only wants to be friends but after disconnecting from him for a month he now calls me his “boo” and “booboo”. Don’t know what that mean but I am trying to remain as lean back as I can because it is not something I do well with guys I am so attracted to.

  178.  #178dorothea on September 7, 2010 at 8:59 am

    ohhhh brenda. lol. lolololol. so he likes penis, eh? good for him, something you have in common. hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahaha.

    i’ve had crushes on gay guys too without knowing for sure that they were gay.

    and i also attract romantic attention from men with gayish mannerisms.

  179.  #179Kath on September 7, 2010 at 9:09 am

    Help me Ladies!!
    I told the guy that it wasn’t working between us (again!) and that it would never work because he will never process his baggage and face up to his shit- He doesn’t want to move out- says we can be friends etc etc- still wants to hang out together and now has told me that he really loves me and wants to be with me- but he spent all of yesterday talking about his x-wife and the horrendous marriage they had (which ended four years ago) I met him 2 and a half years ago and he still has a lot of stuff to say about the marriage- because it boils down to how he really thinks he was totally in love with her even though I think they were the most dysfunctional couple I’ve ever heard of!- I feel as though I’ve heard enough and think he should just go and sort his shit out- but I can’t seem to get my views across to him and although I love him I am really not convinced there is any kind of future for us- It all feels really difficult and like I’m living from one day to the next- am stuck!

  180.  #180dorothea on September 7, 2010 at 9:09 am

    wow, thank everyone for opening up about their parents.

    it is hard, isn’t it…we can’t choose our parents. and a lot of the time, our parents don’t do much to choose us.

    Hugs to everyone.

    Hugs to myself.

    My father was never around, and my mother eventually grew sick of me when I was in high school, so I emancipated at a young age and have been completely on my own ever since. My mother is the black sheep of the family, so the family always saw me as an extension of her, and offered me no support whatsoever. no birthday calls, no christmas presents, no cards, nothing. at 21 i realized i had absolutely nothing going for me and no one to lean on, so i put myself through college. now i am applying for graduate school, and my uncle is finally warming up to me, realizing that i am a hard worker and an intelligent girl. he just payed for my 1500 dollar GRE prep class. I have really mixed feelings about receiving his support at this point, but I AM taking it:)

    My mother does not want to speak with me. This has nothing to do with me and it never did. She cannot stand the reflection she sees in our relationship. The reflection of me being a teenager paying the household bills because she simply doesn’t feel like working. The reflection of my disapproval and hurt that she told me she was dying of cancer when she wasn’t physically ill at all. The reflection that my life is so lonely and hard because she cannot muster the scruples to be an honest woman. The reflection of a 9 year old little Dorothea being told by her mother that her mother is going to kill herself because Dorothea doesn’t love her, as she held a blade to her wrist.

    I’m not sure how my mother can possibly stand it. Well, she can’t, so she avoids it.

    I believe that my mother is on drugs now. At my college graduation last year she looked like she was on drugs, and booked out of there as soon as the ceremony was over She didn’t want to go to dinner. She just wanted to leave, and fast. She may die very prematurely, and it may be soon.

    I am feeling really grateful that her siblings are taking an interest in relationships with me. I am going to need this when she passes on.

  181.  #181dorothea on September 7, 2010 at 9:13 am

    kath, tell him to get the f*ck out. he needs to understand that his living there is detrimental to your well being right now, and that if he moves out, it doesn’t mean everything ever has to end. that he still has the option of contacting you and dating you, if it feels good to you, but holding on for dear life and forcing himself on your life by staying there in the home with you isn’t going to make you feel better.

    i feel triggered. reminds me of the last guy i seriously dated. he was so gung ho about me storing my stuff in his shed while i was looking for an apartment and traveling around Europe, and me living there with him, that I eventually realized it was his way of forcing me to stay in a relationship with him. I called him out on it and I was right.

  182.  #182Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 9:21 am


    You nut! LOL! I remember one past gay friend I had saying, “I’m strictly dickly.” Part of me still wants to laugh and part of me still wants to cry. I feel relief that I know now, that I won’t keep going on and on holding this attraction in my heart. And please excuse me if I’m repeating myself. I’m really stirred up emotionally right now.

  183.  #183Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 9:27 am


    I feel sad about how you were raised.


  184.  #184lm on September 7, 2010 at 9:30 am


    wow. you’ve been through a lot. it makes me feel sad that kids can’t control their environments or how they are treated.

  185.  #185Rori Raye on September 7, 2010 at 9:48 am

    Kath – I’m with Dorothea on this.. and I think many of us have found ourselves in this situation at one time or another, and I’m so sorry it’s happening to you…Love, Rori

  186.  #186Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 9:58 am

    It is possible that Bill is just telling me he is gay so I don’t feel the pressure on the job. What if he is just saying that?

  187.  #187Daria on September 7, 2010 at 10:02 am

    BarbinOz – I feel realy angry having my name used that way. FYI 90% of my questions go unanswered.

    FYDOUBLE I – sometimes I don’t answer post because I feel uninsipired, or turned off, or the poster is asking things that are missing the mark:

    ie… how to get this ONE man instead of how to get to a great relationship.

    or how to best overfunction

    i don’t feel obligated to answer all posts and I feel angry to hear the blog attacked when someone doesn’t have an answer – especially attacked using my name

    French Kitty – actually i felt really angry when I heard you say you like her post AT LEAST as much as the riffs.

    I mean, why the emphasis on AT LEAST. I feel dissed.




    I FEEL SO ANGRY omg. I love my feelings. I feel bad . I feel dissed and picked out and taken for granted.

    i feel so furious i feel like beating you up for real. omg.

    i feel amazed by how furious i feel.

  188.  #188dorothea on September 7, 2010 at 10:05 am

    knock it off girl

  189.  #189Daria on September 7, 2010 at 10:07 am

    Brenda – I feel unheard. I felt dissed. I don’t like my name used in the way it was used. That to me feels disrespectful.

    I feel sad that you are confused about my trigger about “please be patient” . I don’t like to be told/asked what to do. I am being patient as part of my practice and I felt unseen.

  190.  #190Mercedes on September 7, 2010 at 10:13 am

    Brenda: “It is possible that Bill is just telling me he is gay so I don’t feel the pressure on the job. What if he is just saying that?”

    No. He’s not just saying that. Trust me. He’s not. He’s interested in Peter. or some new guy. He’s not pretending to be gay so you’ll be comfortable at work. He’s not. I promise you.

    Much Love,

  191.  #191Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 10:14 am


    You said, “FYI 90% of my questions go unanswered.”

    Many times I want to comment on your posts or questions and I feel scared.

    If I am telling you my intention was not at all disrespect, can you accept that? Can you believe that? You are so unique! You are an enigma! I love you! I respect you!! Do you get that??

    If, by nature, I am looking for your approval, why would I diss you?? I am trying to NOT look for your approval, because that is not healthy relational behavior. But you wouldn’t believe how happy I feel when you and I are getting along!

    I think you’re super funny, and I think you’re a bitch, and I love the bitch out of ya! For real! I love the bitchy side of you! You da bomb! I would seriously love to meet you!

    How do you feel about that?

  192.  #192Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 10:17 am

    LOL! Thanks Dorothea and Mercedes for keeping me grounded. LOL! I feel embarrassed that my people reading skills let me down that badly.

  193.  #193Daria on September 7, 2010 at 10:30 am

    I feel really afraid of being unheard. I feel overwhelmed by all the negative comments about me or related to me…

    im feeling sinky in my heart

  194.  #194Daria on September 7, 2010 at 10:32 am

    Brenda – I feel unheard. I did not feel respected when my name was used that way – I don’t want it used to characterize me in a way that doesn’t feel good.

    I don’t appreciate being made out to be a hostile figure.

    I feel tightened up and angry.

  195.  #195Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 10:34 am


    I know what I just said was on the edge, but for real, it was said in pure love. And, I feel your love. I feel your care. I admire you for working so hard on your self-awareness and self-evolution. You are a beautiful woman, inside and out, and you are a role model to me in many ways.

    You yourself talk about releasing the inner bitch. Not sure if that’s how you worded it, but it’s healthy, right? It is!

    Daria, I love you and respect you.

  196.  #196Daria on September 7, 2010 at 10:35 am

    I feel really pist off and unseen. I feel like seriously phyisically attacking the person I see saying that to me.

    I feel so furious.

    I do not want to be pigeonholed or labeled, or publicly declared to be a certain way that doesn’t feel good to me.

    I feel unsafe with this approval thingy, because the other side of the coin is taking digs at me – I see htis pattern with my girlfriend in my life.

  197.  #197Daria on September 7, 2010 at 10:38 am

    She will kiss my ass, and then when shes’ drunk, or something , or gets a chance, she takes subtle digs at me. then if i point it out shes like oh no no no daria i wouldnt do that. but she does. i feel so mad. i feel mistrustful of her. i feel furious. i feel numb.

    i love my feelings. i don;t feel safe around people with low self esteem because i hahve seen thhis pattern in several people that way…

    i guess its kinda like borderline , now you are GREAT on a pedestal, oh now you are NOT now you are the big bad wolf,

    i don’t feel seen or loved or respected.

    i love my self. anyway. i commit to loving myself and expressing myself.

  198.  #198Mercedes on September 7, 2010 at 10:39 am

    Brenda: I like that you’re practicing baby steps with all you’ve learned here, but I think you really need to focus on one and only one baby step right now and that is of totally and completely leaning back.

    You felt attraction with Bill and with the married guy you speak of from above, but neither of those two men verbalized those feelings to you. Let the guy go first. Don’t assume he’s attracted. Lean back and if he TELLS you he’s attracted or takes you on dates (real ones…not group ones) or buys you presents…then you can trust your instincts and let him in further.

    But…I suggest…until people (both men and women) come out and specifically tell you what they’re thinking and how they’re feeling about you…I would love to see you just lean back and do your own thing.

    You are very, very worried about making mistakes socially and because of that, you pour your story out to others. You sort of give them a jump start on why you are the way you are. You tell them about all your “flaws” before they get a chance to decide for themselves who they think you are. You put yourself down before people (even a lot of us here) have a chance to get to know you through OUR eyes. You tell us everything that is “wrong” with you and you don’t let us discover you…the real you…without the past. You tell us what your own nasty voices tell you. That’s not fair to you, to us, to men or to other women in your life.

    How about you try staying open but leaning back? Can you do a 60 day experiment where you tell not one single soul not one single thing about your life growing up or your adult life so far? What if you focused ONLY on talking to people about themselves or about curent events or about your passions or your dreams and you let the past be silent? Could you do that?

    Could you let someone…everyone…anyone…get to know you as you are today instead of as you want them to get past? Personally, I would never have to “get past” your past to actually like you if you didn’t make me do that. If you keep the past where it is until and unless someone already intimately knows and cares for you and wants to reach into that time with you…well….a lot more people are going to love you just the way you are..and you’re going to have to do a LOT less assuming men are attracted to you. They will be…and when that happens, they will tell you…

    Anyway…I’ve been thinking about you.

    Much Love,

  199.  #199Ready on September 7, 2010 at 10:39 am


    I am new to this topic, but I feel very concerned about your interaction with this man, Bill.

    When a man does not ask you out, it is because he is not interested in taking it further. When a man tells you he is gay, he is not interested in taking it further (even if he is not). When a man tells you not to contact him anymore (he made it clear that he only wants to talk at work, and maybe not then).

    This man is putting up boundary after boundary, and you are breaking them in your need for validation. That must be hard for him. I am concerned that you think he had intention towards you, but in reality, he was just being nice.

    The actions that I am observing from your posts are of someone who is unable to control themselves, even if it is detrimental to themselves.

    You kept contacting this man, when he had shown you with his actions AND his words that he is not interested.

    Why would you go after a man who is or says he is gay?????

    You have to be careful here, if he feels threatened, you could get fired.

    Please work on your internal sense of self, and just stay away from him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  200.  #200Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 10:40 am


    Frankly, I could breathe and you’d be triggered. When I bend over backward to get along with someone and they are angry at me no matter what, there comes a point when I give up.

    I know you are not hostile. I know you are very loving. But I think we both come from backgrounds of a lot of emotional abuse. I think we both struggle with anger.

    I am not the enemy. I love you. I know you care about the ladies on here. That comes through, even when you are harshing on them (me). But I feel exasperated. It seems like anything I say to you is taken as an attack.

  201.  #201Daria on September 7, 2010 at 10:40 am

    Brenda – I feel unheard. I feel mistrustful of your words. I feel concerned about this… I do not want my name used to characterize some big bad judgemental force. I feel angry not hearing anything said about that..

  202.  #202Ready on September 7, 2010 at 10:44 am


    I agree with you.


    You seem to be addicted to control. Control of other people and their perceptions of you. You can’t control anyone but yourself. I am deeply concerned that you are unable to control yourself and could put your job, and emotional state in jeaopardy.

    You are responsible for yourself. If this man was acting interested for 8 months, but did nothing, there is a reason. The reason does not matter, what matters is you stay away from people who don’t make you feel good about yourself.

    No one can make you feel anything, and if you are having issues keeping up your self esteem with someone, it is a huge red flag! You are responsible for you.

  203.  #203Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 10:46 am


    You talked in the “Happiness and Love” thread about releasing your anger and not worrying about how people perceive you. I am following your lead, girl.

    I am telling you what I really think and feel. Is it possible that parts of you annoy me and yet I see you are in process and I love you and accept you exactly the way you are? Yes! I don’t agree with every word you write! Of course I don’t. You don’t agree with every word I write. But that doesn’t mean I am being fake.

    I cannot speak for your friend who gets drunk and makes digs at you. But I can speak for myself. I have corresponded with people in prison for 21 years. I have been friends with murderers, drug dealers, and even a rapist. Do I think it’s hunky dory that they did those things? Hell no! But I love them and respect them and accept them the way they are. I take the meat and leave the bones. I take the fruit and leave the seeds.

    Face it, you express a whole lot of anger on here. Is it ok for you to say that but not ok for me to say that?

    Yet through your anger, I see beautiful growth in you, and if I were being fake I wouldn’t be on this blog baring my soul day after day, would I? Do I strike you as a fake kind of person?

    I love you and accept you exactly the way you are, and smile when I think of you. Red vulva! 😛

  204.  #204Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 10:49 am


    You said, “you really need to focus on one and only one baby step right now and that is of totally and completely leaning back.”

    Yes, you’re right…thank you! I really appreciate your feedback! How bout talking about my future? 🙂

  205.  #205Daria on September 7, 2010 at 10:49 am

    i feel upset! i feel like throwing a tantrum, pouting and crying and sitting on my button on the floor! i don’t feel the drive to get it started tho!



    ]i love my whiny tantrum helpless feelings!

    i love my feelings . i love my frustration and angre feelingss

  206.  #206Daria on September 7, 2010 at 10:49 am

    i love my sadness

  207.  #207Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 10:52 am


    I appreciate your feedback, and I will think about all that. He just told me this morning he is gay. I just found out. I am processing it. I only leaned forward one time, and that was Friday. I’ve been doing a good job leaning back, for the most part.

    Now that I leaned forward, I got the answer I was looking for. I wanted to push it one way or the other. Now I feel relieved. I don’t believe I was controlling him.

  208.  #208Mercedes on September 7, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Brenda: Yes…your future (YOUR future…not one with someone else) YOUR dreams…YOUR goals…YOUR passions…all of that! YES…there is SOOOO much positive in this world…so much…and YOU are part of that positive…so let everyone know that. Nothing negative about your past…nothing too personal about how you were raised or about what little experience you have and EVERYTHING positive about what you love and want and will do and will see and plan on and hope for. All light, fun, airy, beautiful things about why YOU are on this planet right now…nothing about why someone else made that hard for you.

    60 days.


  209.  #209Brenda on September 7, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Deal!~ Thanks! 🙂

  210.  #210Lucy on September 7, 2010 at 10:55 am

    Ah, very cool, Brenda and Mercedes. 🙂

  211.  #211Daria on September 7, 2010 at 10:56 am

    I felt so sad and small and its unfair momi. they are not seeing me there mommy. they don’t see that i’m a good little girl. and i am giving myself a ahug and talking to myself and sighs are coming out. it feels calming.

    i still feel a lil sadd

  212.  #212Daria on September 7, 2010 at 11:00 am

    oooh this helps me!

    “Wounded Tears

    Wounded tears are the tears we express when we are feeling like a victim. Wounded tears come from the pain that we are causing ourselves with our own self-abandonment. When we do not take loving care of our own feelings – instead ignoring our feelings, judging them, and avoiding them with various addictions – we might then project on to others that they are abandoning us and are the cause of our emotional pain.

    Wounded victim tears are a manipulation of others, trying to make others feel guilty and responsible for you. The hope of wounded tears is that the other person will feel sympathy and pity for you, and give you the love and attention that you are not giving to yourself. Wounded tears are a way of avoiding personal responsibility for yourself – emotionally, physically, and spiritually.

    Wounded tears are a bottomless pit. Because they are being caused by your own self-abandonment, your misery will not go away until you choose to take responsibility for your self.

    **especially this last paragraph! ifelt wow reading it! i felt understood. i feel guilty that it may make someone feel bad that i post it here. i deserve to feel good. i deserve to be me fully .**

    When you are at the other end of another’s wounded tears, you might feel put off by them. This is a normal reaction to the manipulation and is not an indication that you are a heartless person. When you don’t feel moved by another’s tears, there is a good chance that it is because their tears are trying to make you feel guilty and responsible for them.

    i feel guilty right now like i’m posting this to take a dig at someone, and i dont want to do that, i feel excited to baby step on healing this. Thank you!

  213.  #213Lucy on September 7, 2010 at 11:02 am

    Barb and others — I am sorry you felt ignored. I don’t purposely ignore anyone.

    Sometimes I use my phone to participate here, and I miss some stuff or can’t easily go back to a referenced post etc.

    I’m not sure I am even posting this on the right thread where it will be seen by you, Barb. 🙁

    But if anyone still has some unanswered questions that they would like help with, I would be happy to do my best to help. I’m not sure at this point if there are still questions….??


  214.  #214Apple Jacks on September 7, 2010 at 11:08 am

    Love love LOVE Mercedes’ suggestion to Brenda. Hey Bren that could be fun, you know? For 60 days you are tight lipped about your past and only talk about who are are now as in your inner world, dreams, passions, goals…do you know what a jack pot of wonderful connection you can attract with that? It’s like bees to honey! It’s a stage play where you are the star and writing out your own story in the moment!

    I used to be a story vomiter too especially during my early 20s. I used to be very guarded because I felt like the only way I could get people in new relationships, friends or otherwise, to understand me is if I told my whole background story. As an INFP, that feels exhuasting so I just kept people away. Than I made the connection I didn’t have to and for the last two years, I did exactly what Mercedes described and the results have been amazing! It’s like second nature to me now, I don’t even think about it and connection with people seem to come naturally and easily lately, and that feels empowering and wonderful.

    I feel excited for you, Bren. This will be fun, good-luck!

  215.  #215Ready on September 7, 2010 at 11:10 am


    You may want to read “healing your aloneness”, it is by a woman that Rori recommends. It talks about codependency and not being aligned with yourself.

    When you are in such a whirl about a non-returned email or a potential relationship that is not working, it is a good toolkit for self soothing. Instead of running out to get validation.

    All of this talking and thinking is a form of control. And it is to cover feeling sad or mad or whatever. Explaining is a form of control. Rori has posted some of this on this blog from time to time.

  216.  #216Daria on September 7, 2010 at 11:12 am

    i feel afraid… and running panicked to find love…

    i love me, and my very concentrated mental running girl
    ! hugs!!

    shes looking left and right, over her shoulder, jumpy as she very concentratedly races to find the love

    i love you!!1 from my tummy!!

  217.  #217Daria on September 7, 2010 at 11:13 am

    i want to fall, blubbering and relieved, in mami’s arms. i lvoe you.! i will hold you here!

  218.  #218Daria on September 7, 2010 at 11:14 am

    omgosh mommy
    ! i felt so scared! whew! waiting for my herat to slow down still!

    i love youw!

  219.  #219Daria on September 7, 2010 at 11:15 am

    thats great that you felt scared! wow!

  220.  #220Daria on September 7, 2010 at 11:15 am

    you’re such a brave lil girl.

    but momi what if i run into a car tryina be brave.

    you won’t! you’re a wise lil girl and

    you’re naturally lucky

  221.  #221Lucy on September 7, 2010 at 11:19 am

    Hi Daria. I see you. 🙂 And I like what you posted.

    A few days ago WH and I were texting late at night and at one point he didn’t answer back … a lot of time passed and I figured he probably had fallen asleep. I felt kinda disappointed, but — for the first time EVER with any man — I didn’t take it personally and didn’t FEEL “abandoned.”

    It was an exciting realization! A lot of healing has taken place in the past year!

    So I texted him, “I guess you have abandoned me [he had, in a literal sense, at that moment, but not in a bad way]. Good thing my abandonment issues are all healed. :)”

    (I also added a flirtatious remark, but that’s not relevant to my point. 🙂 )

  222.  #222Daria on September 7, 2010 at 11:21 am

    i’m feeling a touch shaky, tightened up and shaking my fear out . i love me… awww.. hehe… i love the way fear flows out of my body

    it feels almost like joy… that “giddiyness

    this was great with a man last nite, he teased me — small…

    i said i felt angry..

    he sorta apologized sorta teased again

    i looked him in the eye and said : hmm… i feel tense.. hehe

    this is all in my natural and kitty purr voice, while being truthful.

    he laughed a lil. that i told him i was feeling that… and what a strange thing to say that somehow made so much sense. that was the important part that my body still felt tense.. i really got it too… that that’s what mattered was how my body was feeling… mm it felt like a delicious moment

  223.  #223dorothea on September 7, 2010 at 11:21 am

    I am feeling torn up inside and tiny. Today I am the object of untrue political rumors. It makes me sick that activist rivals who want the same thing that I do are spreading these rumors so that THEY can get all the glory. I feel tired of this. I want out of this line of work. I don’t like feeling like I’m developing ulcers.

  224.  #224Lucy on September 7, 2010 at 11:26 am

    Oh my gosh, Daria, I love your mommy dialogue!!!

  225.  #225Daria on September 7, 2010 at 11:29 am

    Ready – I just looked up Healing Your Aloneness… cuz its something im doing.. and its by Margaret Paul, the Inner Bonding Lady! wow.

    Thats’ where the article piece about wounded tears is from too.

    In fact, Im going to post an article I felt excited by by one of her facilitators:

  226.  #226Nikita on September 7, 2010 at 11:29 am


    Thanks 🙂

    There were no celebrations or parties for me….well I remember one and no one showed up (I was 6 or 7) I remember feeling rejected and angry at how foolish I felt in front of my mom. The first bad memory is from 4; I got finger paints that I had begged for and in my sheer excitement I tore the paper…I didn’t know there was “special paper” so I was still excited until the family kept stressing that I had ruined the gift …..I was still asking for any kind of paper I didn’t care…..so they kept explaining that it was moot so to speak…..I felt really bad because I knew that my mom only had so much money and just replacing the gift was not an option…..

    This year was the first birthday I was comfortable with wrapped gifts…..I’d say I only had 10% uneasiness but mostly just excited that I had a man think of me, remember, plan, and actually include ribbons!!!!! That stuff only happened to the “popular girls” at school….ugh….with the balloons in the hallways and bfs surprising them at school…..blech! I was NEVER that girl…… But this year I was pretty friggin close 🙂

    Sigh….more tapping……ugh…I don’t even want to think about it….

  227.  #227dorothea on September 7, 2010 at 11:32 am

    it also feels so gut wrenching that the people who are spreading these rumors so that they can be the forerunners in our line of work are not going to succeed. They do not have the funding or the public support. They are hurting us all. Why can’t we all work together instead of go for each others’ throats? I never publicly said a negative thing about these (crazy freaking) people because it hurts us all to defame a brother or sister in the same cause. How can these people who are all in their 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s, not be mature enough to understand that? How are they going to immaturely point out my young age as some sort of disqualifier, when I have accomplished more in the last 5 years than they have accomplished in their whole lives?

    I have had people refer to me as a “girl” and “ditzy” and “stupid” and “young” and my “boss’ young thing” and it is so f*cking sexist and disgusting. Let’s play home jeopardy, haters. I’ll beat your ass cuz i’m educated and intelligent, even if i’m wearing pink and have a fresh young face.


    repeat trigger in my life.

  228.  #228Lucy on September 7, 2010 at 11:56 am

    Dorothea, sounds like “Legally Blonde.” Sorry you’re having a rough time. 🙁

  229.  #229Lucy on September 7, 2010 at 11:57 am

    Hi Siena, you lurker you. 🙂

  230.  #230Jacqueline on September 7, 2010 at 11:58 am

    G’day!!! I am glad to read all this Brenda – AND I agree you’re in a political minefield at your job if you don’t step away. I once had rumours of sexual harrassment leveled at me about a maintenance man….and I had done NOTHING at all…..Bill is fabulous, but I hope you can find someone else on line.

    My childhood stories are all the same as yall…I got toner and cottonballs once (back when toner was astringent for the face!)….my mother never once in my whole life let anyone tell me I was beautiful – well, when I turned 15 I found out in a big way and wow, a whole new world opened up. I tell myself this is because she didn’t want me to grow up playing the beauty card, but she was pretty jealous of my father with me….ugh….one Christmas party at my DADDY’s job she made me a fabulous blue velvet skirt….wow oh wow….then she shellaced my hair down until it was dishwater blonde and put huge 4″ bobby pins on each side…ugh, ugh and more ugh.

    She was an AMAZING woman….just not a good mother.

  231.  #231Jacqueline on September 7, 2010 at 11:59 am

    @ Dorothea! Wow, that stinks, is wrong and I feel like whatever it is they are just trying to stop your power and your voice!!!! Sending you energy to break through and hold steady!!!

  232.  #232Lucy on September 7, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    I feel frustrated. This has happened three times now in two days — being grossly misunderstood by guys on pof! I wonder what it means…. It is definitely a new and perplexing development.

    One guy thought I said I sleep around. I don’t. And I didn’t say I did.

    One guy thought I agreed to a date. I didn’t.

    And just now a guy thought I said I wanted to talk on the phone. I didn’t. And I don’t want to.

    This feels very strange.

    Mirror? I don’t know……

  233.  #233Jacqueline on September 7, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    @ BarbInOz…you must have got stuck in moderation???? because I’ve actually been wondering where you were and missing you!!!! Sorry, sorry….if you post and no one answers, check current comments, go there and re-post, I have and it worked – sometimes we get hung up on an old page. Anyway, you might know I was saying the same stuff yesterday and I NEVER want you or anyone else!! to feel that way – you can always email me @houstonrealtionshipsurvey@yahoo.com..

    I internet dated for over 2 years, over 100 guys before I picked this one….or he picked me??? he says he picked, I let him in, so to speak.

    Ruth, you can email too….or just hang around and read back posts they’re really perfect for getting the gist of things…

    and hello, Kathy and hey!!! It’s applejacks!!! whom I thought was a cereal, but saw yesterday with the Little Debbies???

    Waves madly….

    and Lizzie’s like the most wonderful voice in the world…..

    Shoutout to Daria, Tinique and Mercedes….thank you all for being here!!!!

  234.  #234dorothea on September 7, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    sorry i know that wasn’t dating related but it felt good to vent, thank you!

  235.  #235dorothea on September 7, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    lol, lucy, ya slut! how dare you not want to get obsessed over one man who hasn’t clearly defined his intentions with you. gosh!

  236.  #236Jacqueline on September 7, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    correction people would tell me I was pretty and my mother would like grab my arm and shake me and say Pretty is as pretty does…..so the only compliment I remember getting was you have beautiful teeth….rofl…she’d let that one go by.

    If anyone wants to take a stab at how that would play out in a grown up, let it rip. I think I healed all of it – it was really hard because of who she was –

    one time, she picketed so they wouldn’t take the fire station away and had the mayor of Houston calling her on the phone…

    and she left my father when I was 21, with an 8th grade education and got her GED and went through nursing school and worked at the County Hospital….13 years, retired and was dead in 3 months….she gave herself away to her patients, just never to us.

    Both of my parents at different time expressed that all the mistakes they made raising me were because they were totally trying to make me independent! Yeah, that took….lol….and I needed to be, my daddy was gone by the time I was 28, my mom @ 36.

    So, who knows? bad or good, I just don’t label it anymore! and you know, lots of metaphysical folks say we pick our parents….my dad was maybe even more amazing than my mom…in the world, so mostly I feel lucky!

  237.  #237lm on September 7, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    daria – 228:

    i looove margaret paul. i started doing inner bonding facilitation. it’s pretty amazing. it has led me to some amazing breakthroughs over the past few months.

  238.  #238dorothea on September 7, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    I could definitely understand the metaphysical concept of picking your parents.

    i can feel my mom’s borderline personality disorder in me. it is not nearly as pronounced but i see it. it feels scary. i am strong and i am NOT my mother, though, so i am going to be okay if i choose to be.

  239.  #239Daria on September 7, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    i feel so sad thinking that Jaqueline’s dad was gone at 28. i feel sooo scared of losing my dad…

    his dad died when he was young like 14,

    i feel all of a sudden sobbing

  240.  #240Daria on September 7, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    cyring while holding myself and relaxing into my firm arms/hands feels a lot better than crying witout my arms aroud me… that feels kinda lonely

  241.  #241Jacqueline on September 7, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Thank you Daria – I wished it were me that was dead at that time….but the sad truth is you don’t die, you still wake up every morning and you find a way to go on, no matter what pretty much it’s the same for all trauma and/or victims. It took me a long time to get past feeling sorry for myself, and I think – no I know! – October 4ths coming cuz that’s my mother’s birthday and I still put it on the calendar because I will be crying and crazy for about 5 days….it had to happen 2 or 3 years in a row for me and my bestfriend to figure it out. We can clear and clear and clear….but we can’t hit restore….that’s why the video made me cry and say I miss HOME. They may not have told me I was pretty…but they did tell me I was strong, brilliant and unique….even encouraged it. I’ve never regained such a strong acceptance of who I AM since they’ve been gone.

    Luv ya,

  242.  #242Daria on September 7, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    IM – i feel curious to learn from your breakthroughs, and inner bonding process… tell me more…

    i am babystepping to learning about it, when something touches me from it, which is often…

    i feel so good being able to comfort my inner little girl now…

  243.  #243Daria on September 7, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Aww J – I actually felt very at peace when my grandmother and grandfather passed … i felt coforted knowing they lived long lives… which is different…

    and i feel good about them dying, i feel comfortable talking to them at any time, and hearing their answers..

    one tiem i asked for their presence and I felt overwhelmed by warmth and love! wow

    i actually feel pretty close to the other side like i can stick my hand thru the invisible curtain

  244.  #244Rosalie on September 7, 2010 at 12:37 pm


    I LOVE your comment on Brenda!!!!Wow great advice for all of us here- I’m sure Sirens will agree with me! 🙂 Now I’m thinking about such a deal with myself!

    I just got a new job today. So I’ll teach at 3 places every day! Great challange, very busy new me! No time for bad thoughts among kids and adult learners.

  245.  #245tinque on September 7, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    “i actually feel pretty close to the other side like i can stick my hand thru the invisible curtain”

    Really Daria? I want to hear more. May I ask for more? More than almost anything, I want to be able to feel the ones who have passed.


  246.  #246Lucy on September 7, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    “i actually feel pretty close to the other side like i can stick my hand thru the invisible curtain”

    I love the way you phrased that, Daria. I am like that, too. But I still feel afraid of my daughter dying.

    When my friend died of cancer a few years ago, I actually felt her presence MORE than I did while she was here in her body. I talked to her a lot for about a year after she passed and felt her whisper answers.

  247.  #247dorothea on September 7, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    “i actually feel pretty close to the other side like i can stick my hand thru the invisible curtain”

    me too

  248.  #248Lucy on September 7, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    She lived down the street from me, and I still feel her here in the neighborhood whenever I think of her.

  249.  #249Lucy on September 7, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    My sister died before I was born, and I grew up feeling her presence and guidance and love.

  250.  #250dorothea on September 7, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    I never met my Grandfather in Cyprus until he died. Then he was no longer physically bound across the oceans, and we met each other. He hung out for a few days with me.

    This discussion feels lovely and comforting. I feel like releasing tears.

  251.  #251Jacqueline on September 7, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    my grandparents were already dead, as well. So it was just me, a brother who got his lawyer to change my mother’s will and stuck me in the house next to the drug dealing tire shop – I had to go “occupy” it or sell it, and a 12 year older sister whom my father had adopted – big family secret until I was 21, that my mother had been married before…ugh…anyway,

    I am going to post a topic on my blog about cornerstones/touchstones – if I didn’t have my bestfriend since 9th grade I would have NO ONE who holds “memories” for me except my now almost 90 year old amazing women neighbor.

    I conciously chose not to want to see or feel the other side – my mom was seriously psychic – and I was like, no visions, no waking up and seeing you sitting on the bed, no nothing! mother….grin….and after 25 years, my daddy just feels far away.

    I have other people tho who feel right there….and I have what I call my soul spirits – animals, that I pray for and bless every nite – Cloud the gentle, Panther the companion, Goose the Angel and Shaman the White Wolf….once a very psychic lady asked me if I’d HAD a parakeet, as she was remote viewing and could see Cloud perched on the window sill….wow!

    She also asked me if I was sitting in front of a large mirror – and I was sitting in front of a 6’x6′ window…with no panties on! heee heee…so you can bet my feet hit the ground off the table and I was pulling the long t shirt I had on down!!!

    She called me right before she died – like I was the last voicemail she made, and was gone in 10 minutes or so after….I did the fabulous ceremony I’d promised where I lit 100 tea lights….which I do NOT recommend doing on your stove, some of the was is still there….lol….

    and she promised to find my animals. Also, she saw Shaman playing with a little white fluffy dog – and that was so real, as when Shaman died I told him to go find Sam (my hero, my idol and the man my mother was a fool not to marry and cling to for the rest of her life….)…..and Sam had “tiny mite,” a little white fluffy poodle! So, OMGosh, Shaman found Sam?!!!!! and Rita had NO idea about Sam or any of it…that made me cry my heart out.

    Her name was Rita Norling, she was like a psychic to the stars in the 60’s had a book and stuff….I wish I’d of had longer to learn from here, and someday I may publish some of the stuff she gave to me; she was amazing, just breathtakingly connected to the other side!

    Thanks for listening….I feel lighter when I share some of the remarkable stuff I’ve experienced.


  252.  #252Mercedes on September 7, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    WOW! Ready, Lucy, AJ, Rosalie! Thank you all!

    I know for me, I’ve felt the need to talk too much in two different ways. The first time was with my step sister. I had moved to a new school and was there ahead of the rest of my family. My step sister (who is my age) is borderline mentally retarded and was socially “wrong” in my young mind (8th grade) and so…because I was “popular” in my new school…I “warned” everyone about her. I set it up so they wouldn’t change their minds about me after meeting her. I actually set her up for a lot of needless pain and suffering because there’s no way of knowing how the kids would have reacted if I had just stuck up for her the way a sister would instead of the way an insecure young girl would.

    The funny thing is (and this is way 2 of my former talking too much problem) she had the same childhood I had. All the pain, abuse, neglect…it was hers too. When I got older, I used that history to get attention…to get men to love me…to get people to feel sorry for me, etc. Funny thing is, men will do anything for a damsel in distress. They’re more than willing to hold a woman in need of comforting…they’re ready and able to “physically” make an insecure, scared woman feel needed…they’re willing to do just about anything for her.

    They almost NEVER fall in love with her.

    So I grew up. I stopped talking about how I was raised and what my childhood was like and instead, I allowed men and women both to see me as I am today instead of as everyone else told me I was in the past.

    You know what? I found love.

    And I’ve shared all of my past with my love. But the love was there first…and without that love being there first, J would not have been able to get to know me…the way I am now. Instead…he would have felt sorry for me…he would have given me attention. I don’t think he would have fallen in love with me though. Because today, he doesn’t love the woman I was (or thought I was). He loves the woman I am.

    Much Love,

  253.  #253Frenchkitty on September 7, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    Hello again ladies!
    First of all, Daria… I didn’t mean to diss you, so I apologize if you think I did. You write a lot and you obviously have a lot to say, but sometimes it’s impossible to read through it all. And sometimes it’s easy to overlook someone like BarbinOz, who just posts once or twice in between lots of riff posts that let off steam (I did not just mean yours) and don’t always need answering, but she had a specific question she wanted help with and I felt bad for her because nobody noticed it.

    I expect you mean me by someone who’s missing the point because she wants a specific guy, and to that I can only say, we all want different things. What exactly is “the point”? Lots of posts stray from the original questions in all kinds of ways. Isn’t the point that we’re all here because we have relationship troubles in one way or another and we’d like some fresh perspectives on them? Or to see if Rori’s tools work for us and how? She does always stress that you don’t have to walk out of an unsatisfactory relationship… you can also use these tools to fix it. I originally posted because I was so happy with the result of my first baby steps (and they really were baby!). Is that missing the point?

    Love and peace, I say! There is room for everyone here.

  254.  #254Daria on September 7, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    Tinque – my experience is similar to Lucy and Dorothea’s.

    I first got to babystep thru this when my friend died suddenly and violently and ALL OF US were seeing him different places, feeling his presence even more strongly than when they were here damn near!

    in fact, me and that boy were falling in love, so he came to visit me, talked to me… his phrases.. his thought process… had KINKY SEX WIHT ME — y es i was actually by myself but was def his thought process and stuff i hadnt thot of myself… me and my godsister even SAW HIM… he insisted i get a tattoo, i saw how it would look and who would do it.. turned out like that…


    Have you tried to EFT on it?

    when i called my grandparents… i realized first that I was actually blocking htem from being fully there… because it wasn’t somethin gi felt comfortable with… i opened up my shield a lil bit and i felt super loving warmness, really strong

    I would try to EFT on it, to allow myself to feel them.

    Also, I communicate with them thru myself as an inner voice. Like I’ll ask, and then let them saying something back – thats them…

    opening up bit by bit and allowing more and more of a full feeling experience can open a person up to really experiencing that…

    i know you can do this if its a heart desire of yours…

    have you checked out Project Sanctuary by Silvia Hartmann… ? i’m pretty sure you can call them into sanctuary too

  255.  #255Frenchkitty on September 7, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    Secondly, Jacqueline… thank you for the welcome, it’s a pleasure getting to know you all.

  256.  #256Daria on September 7, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    French Kitty – nope i didn;’t mean you.. it was a generic thing.

    but about wanting the guy… we already gave you great advice about focusing on wanting hte relationship instead….

    a lot of us = me included – have come here wanting the guy… and come to learn that the way to get the guy is to shift focus from wanting him to wanting a great relationship and loving ourselves

    now just waiting for you to “get it” i know you will… i feel detached and weird writing this…

  257.  #257Daria on September 7, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    I too consciously chose to close to ghosts and stuff cuz its my biggest fear… i got scared by a babysitter when i was 2 and i’ve been scared since

    i just asked not to see it and it works. nonetheless i felt totally safe with my friend and stuff… it came to me in a way i felt comfortable with, voices in my head… mostly… plus i felt safe with him as is, and my grandmothers

  258.  #258Mercedes on September 7, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Daria: I love how you practice and use Rori’s tools and I think you have a better handle on her work that anyone I have ever seen (you and Alias Girl…) but for me, I have a little bit different experience than you do and I would like to share.

    I think sometimes though Rori is very, very open to those of us who want the specific guy and we want the relationship with that specific guy.

    I found Rori because I had recovered from the hurt in my existing relationship and J and I were back together. At that time, after J had cheated on me and we were together again…did I search for Rori.

    We went through so much and he did the work he needed to do and I “got him back” (for lack of a better phrase…I hate that phrase but I don’t know what else to call it). I wanted to make sure I didn’t and we didn’t make the same mistakes again that caused our relationship to go downhill so far that he cheated on me. I wanted to lose the mistakes and learn a new way of communicating with and holding on to MY current relationship with the guy I already had in my arms. I seeked advice from Rori to help make this happen.

    It was never about finding the person who could give that amazing relationship to me. It was never about finding that amazing relationship. It was (and still is) about learning to keep the right relationship for me and the right man for me strong and secure and loving and beautiful. I don’t ever want to lose him again and we both check in with ourselves and each other every single day to make sure we are doing what it takes to keep this strong.

    For both of us, it is about one individual person and one relationship and it is not about looking for anything else. That’s what I love about Rori’s work. You don’t have to be out there looking. You don’t have to be single. You don’t have to be missing someone. You don’t have to be a mess over a lost love. You don’t have to have a messed up existing love.

    Her tools and her teachings and her meditations apply to those of us who are happy, in love and in beautiful relationships…and just want to make sure we are doing all we can to grow that relationship in love and intimacy every single day for the rest of our lives.

    As far as I’m concerned, a woman shouldn’t stop applying these tools when she has the relationship she wants. She should actually keep looking at them and keep reading because they will (really, really will) help keep us strong in our existing love as well as they would help us find a love that doesn’t yet exist in our lives.

    Much Love,

  259.  #259Frenchkitty on September 7, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    Thank you Mercedes! I am not here to be told to forget about the guy. I get told that often enough. If it was that easy I wouldn’t be here at all.

  260.  #260Ruth on September 7, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    Wow, you ladies are amazing! You really give some wonderful advise here, that everyone can benefit from.

    Thanks, Ragnell and Jacqueline. I’ve actually been on-line dating on and off for the past few years, but I wasn’t ready to get serious, so I wasn’t looking for Mr Right. I’ve been married twice and didn’t want to let a man in the house till my daughter was at an age where his man would not fill a father role for her any more (she had two, that’s enough). Now she is 20 and I want a partner.
    I have very little confidence in myself when it comes to choosing a partner. My first husband was abusive and my second husband didn’t touch me for 10 years, while I remained faithful to the guy. So I feel that I need all the help in world to get it right the third time. I hope you’ll be patient with me, because may be asking a lot of stupid questions here.


  261.  #261Frenchkitty on September 7, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    Ah, Ruth! There are no stupid questions! Bring it on!
    In response to an earlier post of yours, and I don’t care if I’m alone on this, but I’d never go on a date with someone I know I’m not interested in. Maybe this is because as I said last night, dating in the American sense doesn’t really exist in France. Go out for dinner with a guy or agree to meet him for coffee, you know he’ll want sex. Maybe he won’t ask for it, but the question is always in the air… there’s no such thing as a free lunch. And it’s such a bore to have to disappoint them afterwards. Makes you feel like you went out with them on false pretenses. And that sure as hell doesn’t make me “feel good”.

    On the other hand the French are world class flirters, and you can practice your feminine tools on them without having to go on dates… maybe that’s actually easier, I don’t know! I’ll think about it.

  262.  #262Mercedes on September 7, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Frenchkitty: I love your answer to Ruth!

    “I’d never go on a date with someone I know I’m not interested in. ”

    You are not alone on this.

    Much Love,

  263.  #263Lizzie on September 7, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    Brenda sweetie – I have been out at meetings so please forgive if I say anything that has already been addressed. I request permission to yell at you – BILL IS GAY. Ok I have done it.

    Now here is the thing, I married a gay guy.

    Here is the other thing, my first meeting gay-dar said, this guy is gay. Your early detection system did the same thing.

    Guess what? he was charming. Guess what Bill is – he is charming. Guess what else? he thought I was sweet; Guess what Bill did, he thinks you are sweet. Guess what I did? Ignored my gay-dar intuition because I was “lonely” and looking for a “friend”. Guess what you did? Ignored your gay-dar intuition because of your internal workings as well.

    So, thank-you-me, we are just fine. Your gay-dar and my gay-dar work just fine. You are fine. AND…you did not suffer betrayal. You are fine. He is gay; you are straight. Ok now that that is settled, you have a terrific opportunity because he can be a fantastic friend. You can practice all kinds of stuff with him. He will be good for you.

    And you get to take a look at why you ignored your gay-dar, just like I ignored my gay-dar. Interestingly, there seems to be a theme in this thread about parents and what we did to protect ourselves…I thoroughly understand why I chose to marry a gay guy – it will not happen again.

    And, NO YOU CAN NOT SWITCH HIT! And any attempt on your part to get that to happen is futile and the sirens would all “beat you up with mink rattails and wet spaghetti noodles and then hug you.” People who play both teams do so by choice. Gay is not a choice, it just is.

    So, if you or any other siren on here really wants to know what happens when you marry a gay guy, don’t be shy, I would share. Suffice it to say, it is the most profoundly lonely experience on the face of earth. Even my being beaten as a child is not as profoundly disturbing. Now I am going to weep….

  264.  #264tinque on September 7, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    Thank you Daria, so much.

  265.  #265Frenchkitty on September 7, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    Thank you again, Mercedes! I think we’re going to be great friends!

    I think flirting with guys you meet by chance is every bit as good for yourself esteem as dating, and great practice in dealing with men and studying their responses. It’s also easy, because you haven’t arranged to meet them, you can leave when you want, you owe them nothing because you paid for your own coffee, and you really can do it with everyone from the postman to the guy that sells you your newspaper in the morning, regardless of whether you are interested in them or not. (And here practically every guy will flirt with you… even the tramp on the street corner will comment on how pretty you are before asking for a coin – and that really does make you feel good.)

  266.  #266Ruth on September 7, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    Frenchkitty, I’m glad you said that. I live in Israel and there are mentality differences. Israelis are also a lot more forth coming with the sex issue. Some can get very touchy from the moment they lay eyes on you, which I find very offensive. Another thing is that everybody is very careful about money. Often guys won’t invite even for coffee, just for a walk in the park on the first date, because they first want to check if the woman is attractive enough to have sex with. Then she’ll be worth investing money in. Sounds rude, but it’s just the way it works.
    Also women are expected to be more “aggressive”. So the whole “leaning back” strategy is not easy to apply.
    Nevertheless I think the concept is the same, because like Rori said it’s not so much about what we do or don’t do it’s about our energies. It’s about managing our energies.


  267.  #267tinque on September 7, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    Frenchkitty – That’s a big part of what CDing is about, flirting or circular dating with everyone you see, men and women, smiling, holding eye contact, having short or long conversations, and often you will never see them again.

  268.  #268dorothea on September 7, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    I love our sexy international community here.

  269.  #269Daria on September 7, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    French Kitty – i didn’t say it was easy to shift focus. nor did i say forget about the guy! … that’s different!

    Mercedes had to make the same choice… and go for the relationship, not the guy, and find and hold her boundaries when she found out her man was cheating.

    Mercedes – I feel a little misunderstood… and I agree with your post… about how we continue to use the tools, and they are very useful in a relationship with a specific man

  270.  #270Ruth on September 7, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    I love that CDing idea! Date without arranging a date. I started the moment I read about it the first time and enjoyed from the first moment. It instantly lifted my self esteem.


  271.  #271Daria on September 7, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    ugh – posts making judgements and labels about how men are or why this won’t work out are triggering me to feel angry. it feels so draining! i remember being a writer of these posts, and i bet i still do when triggered… hm… it just feels bad now… im like ick! i don’t want to think of the world that way…

    i feel turned off and the person seems… “too far gone” for me to help…

    i feel hopeless to help them

  272.  #272Daria on September 7, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    ah… but going on actual dates you get the chance to FEEL triggered, FEEL like you owe them something… and practice expressing that feeling, and practice receiving more and more…

    it will also trigger you to practice telling the truth to a man you’re not attracted to “Mr. Disgusting” as rori calls it on her Targeting mr. Right program.

    there’s Mr. Disgusting ,

    Mr. Dispassionate,

    Mr. Disappointment,

    and Mr. Desire


    we go out with all men, as long as they don’t frighten us… to practice telling the truth, and opening up, and practice receiving JUST WHEN we feel unworthy, or owing… or guilty

    and this grows us .. and we can open up more and more…

    and our mr.. right will show up and claim us… we’re not looknig for him… just building our ability to tell the truth – to everyone, cuz evne mr right will trigger us sometime – and receive… cuz our insecurities will come up wiht him too

    that’s some of how cd works.

  273.  #273Nikita on September 7, 2010 at 2:35 pm


  274.  #274Daria on September 7, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    FrenchKitty – i feel angry at the way my words were read… as telling you to forget about the guy… i feel amused because i recognize myself in that… and i feel misunderstood and brushed off now…

    and i feel guilty that my words triggered you instead of encouraged you… oops i feel guilty… i love my guilt.. i love my anger and i love my left out ness… and misunderstoodness and unheardness and brushed off ness… and fury and anger and no i do n ot want my words twisted ness

    i do not want to feel unheard

    and i do not want to speak in unencouraging ways

    i forgive myself

    i forgive you

    i forgive everyone who contributed to this

    and i love me

    and i am willing to love everyone

    and that feels vulnerable

  275.  #275Daria on September 7, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    Nikita — defeatist? i feel curious??

  276.  #276Ruth on September 7, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    You have a point there Daria.
    I think you have a lot of courage being ready to expose yourself to all the being triggered and challenging yourself.


  277.  #277Nikita on September 7, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    I leaned way back with an Isreali….and he was practically stalking me….. I wasn’t aggressive at all. I was assertive about believing in traditional roles…I was assertive about my boundaries and needs…..I was at the most “aggressively responsive”. I’ve never lived in Israel but i have dated and worked with them. This guy was fresh out of the army….and his English not the best….but I felt no need to be aggressive….I was just very transparent….he was tough but he lead.

  278.  #278Mercedes on September 7, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Daria: Hmmm…maybe we are understanding each other (or maybe just me misunderstanding you) but I also agree with you. These tools are fantastic for finding a relationship that is right. I was just trying add to that because sometimes we already have a relationship that is right and we want to hold on to it…not find a new one. I was agreeing with you and just showing how someone like me applies the tools as well. Does that make sense?

    This is a little triggering though…
    “i feel turned off and the person seems… “too far gone” for me to help…”

    because I don’t see anyone here too far gone to help and everyone here can learn from you. Everyone.

    I also agree with you as far as going out on dates…except that for me personally, I want to see the person as attractive or feel an attraction to them before I date them. As far as practice though…I’m 100% with Tinque…practice on EVERYONE. I still do this! I’m an incurable flirt and even the grocery store finds me striking up conversations with strangers and smiling and laughing with them…

    Can’t help it… 🙂

    Much Love,

  279.  #279Daria on September 7, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    Mercedes – wouldn’t you recommend going on a date with men she may not be attracted to yet that are able and willing to treat her well —

    to a woman who addictively and chronically dates men that treat her badly? or who aren’t good for her? or who has trouble receiving from men?

    or who don’t take her out at all?

    maybe a woman like that (ahem, me) can actually open up to new men and Expand the pool of men she’s attracted to to include good men as well…

    waiting for men she’s attracted to can lead her right inot the toxic pattern, since she was attracted to exclusively toxic men…


    that’s why Rori recommends dating any man that we feel safe with and even a possible touch of interest/curiosity in…


    i’ve noticed that while i may not feel attracted to THAT man, on the date… afterwards i will be more open to a similar man, who may be good or better than the men i was used to dating before…

    not only that, but oh the practice of telling the truth! and receiving! and learning to feel buyoed and open with men’s attention instead of drained and closed

  280.  #280BarbinOz on September 7, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    Tinque, Ruth, Lizzie, Frenchkitty, Mercedes all of you thank you for some wonderful posts about this CD’ing and how you do it. I didn’t mean to come across all whiney and crybaby, but sometimes as somebody said you kind of get lost in the vast amounts of posting on here, I find it pretty hard to keep up with anyway as I get up in the morning and find a TON of posts that have moved on from where I left it last night when I went to bed 🙂

    Lizzie, you could be talking about me on your #160, I felt such a connection and understanding and its not real easy for me to talk about IRL, because I don’t know anybody else who is Internet Dating, I loved this from you:

    I have discovered a few things about myself as a result of all this –
    – intellectual horsepower is important to me
    – they have to be taller than me
    – I must feel that they want me and
    – I must feel good when I am with them

    THANK YOU everybody for your time.

  281.  #281Nikita on September 7, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    Ooops….I meant to write he led….although I wasn’t interested….I ignored my phone because he was too intense….and finally I just said no and we agreed to be friends although since then we haven’t spoken but I think of him as a friend 🙂

  282.  #282Daria on September 7, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Mercedes – ok now i feel more understood. thank you for sharing how it helped you In a realtionship!

    yes… those “far gone” things are MY triggers! I get them in life as well… with students… people… parents…

    i just assume that i won’t be heard, i will feel unheard and bad…

    i love myself.. babysteps

  283.  #283BarbinOz on September 7, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    Daria, I am sorry for singling you out and that it upset you, but sometimes your posts fill up my whole page and others kind of get “lost” with their questions in the midst of your riffs……including myself of course.

    You don’t need my approval when you made it into Rori’s book on Targeting Mr Right, that’s what I meant about being a superstar, it was tongue in cheek and perhaps my British sense of humour doesn’t always translate as well to non Brits.

  284.  #284Daria on September 7, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    for example… i feel shaky and tight in my jaw and right shoulder thinking of writing to FrenchKitty right now.

    I felt brushed off . and i believe that i wont be heard by her if i were to share.

    this is not necessarily true.


    even though i feel afraid of not being heard by someone once i’ve felt brushed off by them… i love and accept myself Now.


    i just did some belief change stuff on that.


    along with my belief that im lucky – so luckily this belief change will take place just like i want it – this is good stuff!!!

  285.  #285BarbinOz on September 7, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    Brenda, WOW is all I can say. Once you are over the initial shock, Bill could turn out to be the best friend you ever had.

    What a relief you will feel when it sinks in that none of this is about YOU.

  286.  #286Mercedes on September 7, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    Daria: I see where you are coming from. For some women (the one you described…ahem….you… 🙂 ) that makes total and complete sense. For me, it doesn’t. But that’s me. When I was circular dating (the real thing…dates and all) I was only dating men I found attractive. There were soooo many men online and the second I changed my profile the same guys were emailing the same stuff thinking I was somebody new. For me (not necessarily the same for you, but for me) it was much much better for me to weed out the ones that didn’t spark anything in me and only respond to those I found attractive. Some of them got dates with me and some didn’t. That all depended on how they responded with dialog outside of an actual date. So…different for me. This is how it went:

    1. He emails me and I read his profile to see if he is attractive. to me.

    2. If the answer is yes, I respond.

    3. If the answer is no, I don’t.

    4. If I did respond and he loses my interest in him after a few emails, chats, phone calls, etc…I turn him loose.

    5. If I did respond and he keeps my interest…he has earned a date with Goddess Mercedes.

    But…for me…I had to be attracted.

    Make sense?

    Much Love,

  287.  #287Nikita on September 7, 2010 at 2:51 pm


    Hi Daria,

    Defeatist in regards to feeling super judge-y about men and limiting the scope of another’s potential to change…we all transform and when I say…” oh Daria is always going to be a blonde that ” that’s limiting because Daria might decide to dye her hair hot pink tomorrow …..


    de·feat·ist [ di ftist ]

    expecting failure: showing a tendency to expect failure or accept it too readily

    noun  (plural de·feat·ists)
    somebody who expects failure: somebody who consistently expects or accepts failure

    de·feat·ism noun

    It feels like a loser’s mentality to me…..

  288.  #288Nikita on September 7, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    The hair color parallel I tried to draw felt awkward to me so I just copied the definition …..

  289.  #289Mercedes on September 7, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    And we’re posting at the same time…that makes it all harder. LOL 🙂

  290.  #290Daria on September 7, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    BarbinOZ – hey!! i forgot i made it into Targetinghaha!

    thank you for apologizing.

    i feel upset and sad – and defensive reading that my posts take up the whoel page and sometimes your posts get lost.

    that feels bad, . i get an image as my posts as “fillers”

    tah feels bad.

    i feel annoyed. i feel like i’m being told to be less than i am.

    i feel very cold big and removed and threatening.

    i don’t want to feel like this.

    i feel angry and kinda blamed

    So what if i post a lot.

    who says posts get lost?

    everyone can use the same scrolling function as i can… i don’t usually miss posts… I CAN but since I desire to read them, I don’t usually miss them…

    anyone can post as much as they want.. you can post post post till my posts seem “lost”

    i feel really angry

    omg i feel furious

    i feel frustrated. i feel unappreciated.

    i do not want to be less and post less so that other people can feel more “seen”

    i feel furious

    and sad and drained


    i love my sad and drained feelings

    i love my fury

  291.  #291Frenchkitty on September 7, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    Dorothea – I love that expression – the sexy international community… and you are right! I love that too! So nice to know that there’s a common experience of femininity and humanity that reaches across boundaries.

    Daria – who’s making judgments?

    Tinque – appreciate your comment, maybe I am having trouble with the terminology! When did flirting become dating, circular or otherwise? I think I’m struggling with this concept, because the very term “dating” suggests a planned date and time set aside for it, and to me an expected outcome… flirting is the opposite, it’s spontaneous and just happens. But I get what you’re telling me. Some cultural differences here too… a side effect of our international sexy community, to be celebrated in my opinion, and worth talking about because it opens new perspectives. Vive la difference, I say!

    Ruth – just to add to this, yes I can understand the money issue too and actually I think it’s not that important who pays. It’s also a practical thing. I generally move in let’s say “bohemian” circles where nobody has any money most of the time. And while I’d never turn down a drink if it’s offered to me, I wouldn’t let a guy take me out for a meal if I couldn’t imagine shagging him. Which isn’t to say I necessarily WILL agree to have sex with him, but if I’ve already decided no way beforehand, it doesn’t seem fair to let him pick up the tab. To me that’s raising false hopes and using people.

  292.  #292Daria on September 7, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    YEAH!! i am doing great babystepping to shifting my defeatist thoughts by using the … BUT IM NATURALLY LUCKY NOW!!! so it Will work out! belief

  293.  #293Nikita on September 7, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    🙂 I feel relieved by your perception….but for the record I was not referring to you….when I used the word but the word came to mind When I read 275#

    In reference to people in general….

  294.  #294Daria on September 7, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    Mercedes – I do my online dates exactly the same way.

    1. the thing for me was… i used to make a big distinction between being attracted (“is he just right for me that i am already having an instant romeo and juliet fantasy and am ready to sleep with him if he just but touches me”) – wich tended to happen VERY rarely with a man right off the bat

    2. and curiosity – well, this guy doesn’t look like my type but he has a cute smile… maybe he’s a good choice to let get to know me and practice with

    When i switched to 2. Curiosity and just a touch of anyting attractive as a requirement for dating, i noticed i expanded my attraction to more and more men… that i wouldn’t have considered before… because they weren’t “my perfect dude better than the man i used to be with” right off the bat

  295.  #295Daria on September 7, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    Nikita – yeah, i guessed you were referring to that. then i got all excited because of course – mirror – i was doing that too… with my too far gone triggers -and many things in life… i had the “i;m not gonna get what i want belief” . i’m shifting this belief now! im stoked that its working. living a whole different level now!

  296.  #296Ruth on September 7, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    Nikita, I hope you were not trying to teach me about Israeli men. I’ve been living here for a long time and can assure you that Israeli women are a lot more aggressive then then Europeans or Americans (which is why some men prefer American or European women). At the same time the traditional role of a woman is a lot stronger.
    But that really isn’t the issue and I didn’t come here to talk about being Israeli. It doesn’t matter, because when it comes to relationships the problem and difficulties are the same in their essence.


  297.  #297Ruth on September 7, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    It is after midnight, time to sleep and I want you all to know that I very much enjoyed this day, because I participated here.


  298.  #298BarbinOz on September 7, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    Just been on POF dating site and wrote this to a scammer:

    Henry, I feel you live in Nigeria NOT in New York,USA what do you think about that?


    How about that for a feeling message LOL!!

  299.  #299girl on September 7, 2010 at 3:10 pm


    Last night I had a melt down when D didn’t take me to get curly fries after partying at his coworker’s wedding. At the end of the after-party, I agreed to take one final shot with him under the pretense that we would stop for curly fries. On the whole hour long drive, I was lookin out for restaurants, but he wasn’t really responding. I kept wondering if he maybe knew that these restaurants are closed..or if he had some other plan…cause we just kept on passing up restaurants…and I was feeling excited, then disappointed every time. Then I saw downtown FW appear on the horizon…I thought: ‘well, we’re almost home, I know he’s down to eat…I feel certain that we will stop for curly fries soon. But then he said something about Whataburger, and I was like “Whataburger? Whataburger doesn’t even HAVE curly fries!!” I started sobbing and asked him to just drop me off at my apartment (instead of staying the night). I got home and bawled to my roommate. She immediately offered to take me to get curly fries. I felt relieved and put my shoes back on, but then I kicked them back off a couple of minutes later when she was still in her room futzing with the computer to find the nearest Jack in the Box. So I went to bed and sobbed myself to sleep. I woke up confused. I felt around for clues, and the pearl necklace I still had on sparked my recollection. I felt mortified. I went to the living room to call him, but there he was sleeping on the couch. He’s soo cute. I love him! But I have moments when I just reject the relationship. It’s not him..I just can’t do it sometimes. Like yesterday, leading up to the meltdown…

    to be continued…

  300.  #300Daria on September 7, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    what frenchkitty said h ere triggered me mucho

    “It’s also a practical thing. I generally move in let’s say “bohemian” circles where nobody has any money most of the time. And while I’d never turn down a drink if it’s offered to me, I wouldn’t let a guy take me out for a meal if I couldn’t imagine shagging him. it doesn’t seem fair to let him pick up the tab. To me that’s raising false hopes and using people”

    i also used to do this! this is what i was referring to…

    I was hurting myself thinking this way… and while i didn’t actually think a man would expect sex, i did feel really awkward to have a man take me out and pay, on a date.

    i felt like i was “using” him. many of us do. still practicing and shifting.

    For the new comer’s search the posts – on the right hand side… for articles on Circular Dating and what it is – how it works to help us

  301.  #301Daria on September 7, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    Barb – actually thats a thought, not an actual feeling message..

    i feel like a mean schoolteacher and i love myself anyway

  302.  #302Mercedes on September 7, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    Daria: you are making lots of sense here. I understand better now. I think you were feeling a need to widen your pool of men so the same toxic ones weren’t always the ones you were having dinner with (am I correct on that?).

    For me…I was trying to narrow the pool of men because there seemed to be soooo many out there and it was driving me batty trying to read through everything…every profile of every man who contacted me. So…I decided…most people put their best foot forward in their profile pictures…if that BEST picture and the initial contact with me wasn’t attractive…I was able to weed them out. If it WAS attractive…then on to step two…can he keep my attraction before I meet him?

    Same steps…two different needs in order for each of us to feel comfortable. I like that.

    Much Love,

  303.  #303Frenchkitty on September 7, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    Daria 283…

    this is a great post. I understand you a lot better now and I once again apologize if you felt brushed off. That was not my intention, hand on heart.

    I didn’t mean to tell Ruth what she should or shouldn’t do, I just said what I would do. Or not. Maybe that’s because I’m not specially attracted to toxic men that treat me badly. Now and again there’s one that does, but that’s incidental. It isn’t the toxicity that attracts me per se.

    My point is that we are all different. There is no one-size-fits-all solution. It’s the different perspectives that make this blog interesting for me.

    I say it again, it’s clear you have a lot to say. So have I. We will disagree with each other often, because I think it’s clear that we speak from totally different life experiences. But I completely respect you.

  304.  #304BarbinOz on September 7, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    Daria #304, yes I am feeling bad about this “using” men I am not even interested in for my own free therapy, mind you none of the 3 “chosen ones” have phoned me yet and it has been 12 days since I gave them my cell phone number LOL!!

    Time to move on to more men I suppose….sigh….as Lizzie said in her post above most of the men on POF are very insular, at least that has been my take on it and maybe its my age group and I do believe a lot of them are married too, its like they are happy to email back and forward like a ping pong match but when you tell them you are over the endless emails they don’t step up to the table………

    In my past forays into the Internet dating scene over these past 8 years where the men have been older, or heavier and ALWAYS shorter than on their profiles, when I paid my half of the bill it gave me some kind of feeling of control, like I wasn’t obligated in any way, I feel REALLY uncomfortable having a man pay for me, maybe that’s what all these years of Womens Lib and Equal Opportunity have done for us???

  305.  #305BarbinOz on September 7, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    I should have said having a man I DON’T KNOW pay for me feels uncomfortable, but of course if I am in a relationship that is a whole kettle of fish.

    Dammit Daria # 305, I was soooo proud of that message to the scammer too LOL!!

    I have a looooong way to go and I am finding this whole process a very interesting and challenging way of doing things.

    Loving the International community on here and how we all have different ways of doing things from our respective countries and backgrounds.

    Frenchkitty I am interested in the “no dating” scene in France, so how does that work?

  306.  #306BarbinOz on September 7, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    Wow, just went back to POF and the scammer must have blocked me because…..poof……. he has disappeared into thin air………..

  307.  #307Nikita on September 7, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    300: Ruth says:

    Nikita, I hope you were not trying to teach me about Israeli men. I’ve been living here for a long time and can assure you that Israeli women are a lot more aggressive then then Europeans or Americans (which is why some men prefer American or European women). At the same time the traditional role of a woman is a lot stronger.
    But that really isn’t the issue and I didn’t come here to talk about being Israeli. It doesn’t matter, because when it comes to relationships the problem and difficulties are the same in their essence.


    Tuesday, 7 September 2010 @ 3:06pm

    I choose to share my experiences because I choose to share them….. I imagine that there are many lurkers on the blog that do not post but are forming ideas based on what we write…..not everyone on the Internet is over 18…. I don’t feel good remaining silent about an experience I had with a man from a particular background – when a generalization is made. I am not commenting on the “alleged aggressiveness” of Israeli women. I’ve met and known Israeli women(all women) of varied temperaments……..
    In all fairness why label an entire race of men as preferring a certain thing or requiring a woman to be a certain way to mate with those men when I have an alternate view?
    I don’t feel beholden to “not expressing” because I may appear to be “teaching”.
    We could call American women aggressive …… Based solely on the need to lead a relationship…have a career….undergo fertility treatments….join the army…..or lead a man to call….or lead him to pull his “c*ck out before he’s decided how he feels….if he feels anything at all…..
    I feel completely at ease to let our difference of opinion just be our difference of opinion…but I feel curious about the way we all generalize and cop out by “profiling ” one another.

  308.  #308Daria on September 7, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Barb – I feel so excited to not be attacked about my schoolteacher comment — about the scammer.

    Remember that “using” men for free therapy, YOU ARE ACTUALLY A GIFT ! to them! being with a woman, is a gift. and … any time being with a human who is practicing telling the truth.. is a gift. you are hlepin them be better men… by holding your boundaries, and sharing your feelings…

    they will have better success with the next woman, because they grow from being around Goddess YOU!

  309.  #309Frenchkitty on September 7, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    Hi BarbinOz!

    Dating or not dating in France… hmmm…. I have to think about how to explain that. It’s just that I’ve been here for three years, single for one and in a process of painful separation (after an 18 year marriage) for the one before that and I’ve never been aware of anyone who dates! In the anglosaxon sense of the word. Even the word doesn’t exist actually. People either have a “cheri(e)” or they haven’t. But if they have, how do they get there? A good question. But it certainly doesn’t seem to be by any ritualised dating procedure.

    From what I’ve seen, people hang out, and if they’re attracted to each other, they sleep together, probably that night. If it’s good, they see each other again. Maybe it turns into a serious relationship, or maybe they just meet to have sex. It’s quite common for women to say, hmmm, this isn’t a guy a want a serious relationship with, but I’d like him to be my lover. Maybe “one of my lovers”. I expect that’s common for men too, but obviously as women chat more I can say more about the female perspective.

    Internet dating does also exist in France, but I only know of one example of someone who does it. For two years I lived in a small village where it wasn’t easy to meet new people. (I was married at the time so it didn’t affect me, but I still managed to meet the current man in my life, whose confusing behaviour brought me to this site in the first place. We also didn’t date but flirted like crazy from the day we first met, until one day he got up the courage to say that he wanted to sleep with me and I said, I’d like that too.) Our neighbours were two brothers in their early 30’s. They use internet dating to get a never ending succession of attractive girls to drive out to the countryside and i expect they shag a fair number of them, but I never saw any of them turn up twice…

    I will think about this some more and let you know if I have any more insights.

  310.  #310Jennifer on September 7, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    ok, now theres a kinda interesting dude on okcupid..should I send some kind of wink? I have to write stuff on a wink…and I feel nervous to lean forward.

  311.  #311Lucy on September 7, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    I feel very interested in the dialogue between Daria and Mercedes — it feels like condensation just got cleared from a window so that the people on either side of the window can now see each other. It feels open and illuminated (maybe it’s just me, I don’t know!) — and now I, too, can see both viewpoints more clearly — and my own dating experience makes more sense.

    I started out like Mercedes described — not meeting anyone if I didn’t feel some attraction online. And guess what? The only person I wanted to meet lived several states away — and we never ended up meeting. I simply did not feel attracted to anyone else.

    So, a friend who had dated 70 men from online and after two years found her husband there, advised me to be open to more men — like Daria said — and she also said that she was surprised to find that she felt attracted in person to some men for whom she felt no attraction online.

    So, I went on one date with a man I felt “eh” about — and it was a disaster. Then I tried another one, and it was so-so. Then I found Rori and this blog, and felt encouraged to keep trying with more men.

    I have been doing so for a year now, and truthfully — it has been good for me, I have learned a lot about myself, and gotten all the benefits that Daria described — and those benefits are priceless!

    However, through this experience, I have come to realize that my “gut instinct” — my intuition — about men is pretty much on-target without meeting them. That is, I really can tell whether or not there is relationship potential between us before meeting them. It’s kind of like the Gay-dar Lizzie wrote about.

    So, now I am sort of at a crossroad. I can keep meeting men from online in order to “practice” even though I know there is no “future” with them (which could be a very good choice for me to make) — or I can do what Mercedes did and just meet the ones I feel potential with (which is, like, very very few — in fact, right now, besides WH, it’s maybe .. one…).

    This is a very awkward position to be in — not knowing which way I want to go — like the Scarecrow pointing in both directions in the Wizard of Oz — because what keeps happening is that I’ll chat with guys online — any guy who is even remotely interesting if I feel like it at the moment — but then they want to meet me and I flake on them — because I realize I really do NOT want to date any more guys just for practice — so now I have become one of those infamous people who will chat and chat and flirt and entice — and then not meet. So I’m ending up leaving a trail of men hanging, wondering “where’d she go????” And I don’t like the way that feels. Hey — Dorothea — maybe I really AM a slut! Maybe I “hired” that guy to say what he did because that’s how I’m feeling — like an IM/email/text slut. Hmmm…..

    So, I don’t know where I’ll go from here. This dilemma merges with the other issue being discussed here — “wanting the relationship” vs. “wanting the specific guy.”

    And I would like to write about that next…..

  312.  #312Renee on September 7, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    Hi Jilly — Thanks for thinking of me!

    I’ve just been kind of busy keeping up with work and dating the Blondie that I haven’t had a chance to catch up on the blog until today. All you sirens have been busy?

    Any news with sailor man? I feel so angry that he would not call you after breaking his date with you so abruptly…sad to say, my experience has been more along the lines of yours than getting an actual explanation of what’s going on. I mean, I’m the one who decides not to continue going out more than 1/2 the time, but it’s when I do start to get into a guy (after several weeks usually) that something happens and he pulls away and then I freak out (whether I share it with him or not and I usually do, but saying something like, “It seems things have been kind of “off” the past couple of days…is there anything you want to tell me?”)

    In any event, I just wanted to let you know that it feels good to be missed and I would really like to know how things are developing between you and this guy.

  313.  #313Daria on September 7, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    Lucy – for me, it would come down to … dating more men even if i know they’re not the one… help me open up to more men and attract more attractive ones…

    so it’s clear for me that to spend time with a random man who i can practice my tools with…

    AND get the added beneficial result of finding better quality men attactive and attracting more men…

    is a double whammy win for me

  314.  #314Lucy on September 7, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    Okay. Here’s the thing. Even before Mercedes wrote what she did — in fact, yesterday — I suddenly had the thought that ANY man — including the “right” one for me — is going to present me with challenges, triggers, problems, issues, etc. — some of which could be completely unforeseeable and shocking — just like with my ex-husband and with Mercedes’ man. So, I’m starting to feel like maybe it really IS about choosing which man you want to go through all that with. Maybe it really is about loving a specific man and wanting a specific man. Maybe it is about seeing something in a specific man that draws me and makes me want to pursue genuine intimacy with THAT particular man. Maybe I am drawn to him because he is the one I need for my continuing growth at this point in the journey — and maybe I am the one he needs for that as well.

    Lol. I realized I said “maybe” about a thousand times in that paragraph. These thoughts are absolutely not set in stone. So … here’s hoping no one feels mad at me for thinking them. It’s just where I am right now in my process.

    And, yes, I am struggling with “wanting” WH — with keeping my hands and heart open and not latching onto him — with being open to other men — I am struggling. I love him. I want to choose him — even without knowing him any more than I do.

    I feel compassion for myself in this struggle.

    And I keep reading Daria’s “I am lucky” statements and choosing to make them my own. My daughter has said that her brother (who has a wonderful gf) is the only one in our family who got the “lucky gene.” I am choosing to believe, with Daria, that I am lucky. That my daughter is lucky. That her other brother is lucky, too.


  315.  #315dorothea on September 7, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    I was just joking, of course, Lucy.

    I hate the word slut. I also don’t like “prude”

    The number of people I sleep with or don’t sleep with or how quickly i sleep with anyone or don’t sleep with anyone is not a label i should be forced to wear.

  316.  #316Frenchkitty on September 7, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    Daria.. just reread your post 278 and it made me smile… I feel we may trigger each other often… nothing wrong with that…

    Signing off for the night, so good night to you and all the sirens and goddesses out there… Job interviews tomorrow… hope you’ll all be sending me good vibes for that…

    Love to you all! Especially Daria!

  317.  #317Lucy on September 7, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    Hey, Dorothea, I knew you were joking — but the fact remains that he thought that about me, and it does kinda fit into what I described, ya know? But thanks for making sure I knew you were joking. 🙂

    It’s funny that you mentioned the word “prude” — because he used that word, too, in our interactions! — and i haven’t heard that word in a long time!

  318.  #318Getting There on September 7, 2010 at 5:12 pm

    Wow, Bea. I am SO impressed! Is it weird to be proud of someone you don’t know? Well, I am. I know it must have been hard to write that, but it’s so clear you love yourself more than you want to be with “the boy.” I really wish I had written something like that to the last guy who sent me the “let’s be friends” email. Instead, I pretended like I was okay with just being friends and that I could handle it – not because I intentionally wanted to lie, but because I wasn’t being honest with myself and cared more about keeping him in my life (I was definitely a “crumb” girl) than I did about protecting myself. And of course it was a mistake (one I hope to never make again). It just kept me in something where I wasn’t getting what I wanted, and continued to get hurt.

    I’m pretty new to Rory’s blog, but I get her emails and they help me a lot. I’m now dating a man who I found kind of boring at first, but she helped me realize it’s actually a good thing I’m attracting “boring” men! The last man I fell hard for was anything but boring, and he broke my heart. I have done a lot of work on myself since then, but there is still much more to be done. I’m continuing to give the current guy a shot (and be open to others) because I can finally appreciate that he is treating me well. I’m finding my boundaries and really feeling things for the first time in many years. I still think about the last guy way more than I should, and truthfully I worry that I’ll never fully be over him. But I want to be open to a healthy relationship, so I will keep working. Thank you, Rori, for your advice and to the other women for telling your stories. It makes me feel like I’m not alone in this. 🙂

  319.  #319Lucy on September 7, 2010 at 5:12 pm

    Daria, thanks for your feedback. The thing is,

    “…AND get the added beneficial result of finding better quality men attactive and attracting more men…”

    … I already am finding top-quality men attractive and am attracting more men than I have time for…
    so that’s kind of not a factor. What do you think?

  320.  #320Nikita on September 7, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    I feel a bit awkward saying this since I have said it before but just in case ; I could not imagine being physical with my current LI or the previous one…. Both rocked my world so to speak. The attraction to them both was they seemed normal, tall, and smart. But I could not imagine either of them in bed….I even laughed when they tried kissing me… It felt ridiculous….fast forward and it is very good…..
    In my case, I was surprised. I was shocked by both and I was very satisfied by taking the chance.

  321.  #321Daria on September 7, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    Lucy – you’re attracting more attractive men than you have time for ?

    that would feel great.

    I personally would have a man here right now I got the time!

    A man has made plans to come see me any minute now

  322.  #322Daria on September 7, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    Nikita – wow thank you that is very reassuring! especially the giggling at kissing part… i feel that way a lil bit wiht one of my CD’s from last nite…

    I also noticed, that i can easily find myself in ‘small time’ masculine mode with some Cd’s … ohhh lets do this… oh… i think this…

    i usually notice when i notice msyelf feeling buzzy in my head, and turned off

    then i check what have my words been …

    and they were me in masculine energy!!!

    and that turns me off!!


    but i notice with a couple of my cd’s theyre both “nice” its easy to fall into making the decisions – cuz they allow me

    and i feel not really turned on by either of the two

    but with more attractive CDs. they might, react in a more negative way to my taking the masculine role…
    sometimes even trigger me (or be rude, etc) with their response.. yet i feel attracted to them overall

  323.  #323Lucy on September 7, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    Daria, I would probably spend every day with these men if I didn’t have my teenage son here at home — just him now that his sibs are back at college– and I don’t want to “abandon” him and leave him feeling lonely, left out, etc.

    If I was completely alone, I would keep going out to dinner with men and probably spend the night with some of them, walk with them, watch tv together, hang out, etc.

    I’m trying to maintain a balance with my son and my “love life.”

  324.  #324Daria on September 7, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    I find i feel better and more attracted To the nice Cd’s when I step back, and let there be silence and let him pick up the masculine role…

    ugh but it feels like a constant cathcing myself with those two – good practice! yet feeling a lil concerned and frustrated about winding up in that space repeatedly

    i don’t want to wind up in masculine space with a man

    me easily slipping into maculine mode… that feels bad. i want to feel safe in their staying in masculine…

    tho i am guessing its their niceness and respect for me that allows them to tolerate my slipping into masculine.

    And sometimes leaning back feels WOW!!! a challenge!!!

    like when we were both excited to share stories about a movie,

    and i … going mascuilne.. was interrupting him to tell mine etc… and found myself feeling icky disconnected… good to be talking… yet not attracted to him

    then i made the conscious decision to lean back wihtout interrupting him

    and he told me his story, i listened at level II

    and i felt MUCH MORE ATTRACTED TO HIM when he was done.

    i didn’t even want to tell my own story right then… i mean… i KNEW my story… that “pressing need’ to say it right then to someone else was gone… i was instead feeling attracted, good, soft and graceful

    and i still got to share later

  325.  #325Daria on September 7, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    yeah my mom taught me that if you’re lucky you will be happy.

    and i am now teaching myself and will teach my kids that you can CHOOSE to be lucky!


    that puts a whole diff spin on it huh!!! yay!

  326.  #326Daria on September 7, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    Nikita – how did you deal when they did kiss you, start to make love to you…

    and you initially felt kinda neutral and icky…

    like… ew a lot of spit… mhm i feel like giggling..


    in the past i’ve kinda feel like throwing up and my body recoils when certain men start to make love to me (even when they were my lover before)

  327.  #327Daria on September 7, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    that’s how i imagine these men

    i am triggered to remembering the chubby best friend -guy – from when i was 5.

    he was my friend, and i think i was a bit masculine enrgy with him, as far as deciding what to play and stuff.

    the guy i wound up liking was unavailable and i chased.

    but this reminds me of a chubby greedy, needy boy tryna hover over me and kiss on my parts and tummy… ick! i feel like he’s llooking for his mommy?

    i feel not turned on?


  328.  #328Lucy on September 7, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    The guy I sometimes have sex with — I’ve been seeing him for over a year — I don’t really find him all that attractive physically — and one time last fall I cried when he wanted to have sex after watching a movie because he’s a great guy but I just dreaded the thought of it and felt awful and conflicted — but I had sex with him last week after two glasses of wine and it was kinda nice — but I won’t want to do it again for a long time, I can tell, even with wine — and I want to be with a man I want to have sex with every day — which I know is possible.

  329.  #329AmberS on September 7, 2010 at 6:00 pm

    I have been having a really cool change of perception on the using men in our CD rotation thing.

    If I’m practicing ALL of my yummy, level 2 listening, goddess, siren skills

    I am a freakin’ GIFT to be with.

    When I’m with a guy, and


    instead of judging or being turned off, he feels like I am giving to him, because I am giving him the gift of being the focus of all of my attention. Even if there’s no attraction. And wow! When I can be strong on the inside and soft on the outside I can ROCK that space.

  330.  #330Lucy on September 7, 2010 at 6:00 pm

    also, in the earlier posts i wasn’t just talking about physical attraction. A heart connection is what draws me and attracts me the most and i am open to a physical attraction developing from there.

  331.  #331Daria on September 7, 2010 at 6:01 pm

    Amber – yeah!!!

  332.  #332Lucy on September 7, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    also, i wasn’t originally physically attracted to my ex-h but i consciously developed it b/c i was in a very vulnerable state in my life and wanted to “settle down with a good man.” so i know it is possible.

  333.  #333lm on September 7, 2010 at 6:30 pm

    daria – 245:

    yeah, i have just been able to cut loose from caring what people think about me and feeling responsible for other peoples’ feelings. i think i was like this when i was younger and i learned to ‘hand myself over’ as they say in inner bonding. i was able to leave my not-so-nice boyfriend and improve my relationship with my father because of inner bonding. i really love dialoguing. i do it every day and i’ve learned to totally trust what my guidance/intuition tells me…

    it feels amazing, combined with eft and rr’s tools. you sort of just realise how much you can create in terms of your own worth and own sense of security. i love love love it.

  334.  #334lm on September 7, 2010 at 6:32 pm

    amber –

    “I am a freakin’ GIFT to be with.”

    yes! this is the frame of mind we need to be in, even at work and in line to get coffee. you are a gift.

  335.  #335Renee on September 7, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    Brenda — Just getting back into the swing of things here and I have to say…it struck me as kind of odd weeks ago when Bill told you Lady Gaga was his favorite artist. At that time, I assumed he was gay, but I didn’t want to say anything since I’ve obviously never met the man and didn’t want to cast aspersions.

    I imagine if I were in your situation, though, that hearing he’s gay is a huge relief compared to thinking he rejected you — right?

  336.  #336Jacqueline on September 7, 2010 at 6:49 pm

    Hi, Renee!!! great to have you back!! I’m in observation mode today – smile…..but I missed you!


  337.  #337Daria on September 7, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    Thank you Im.

    YEs. I concur…

    EVERYONE – for scripting, everyday situations with husband, etc … INNER BONDING ROCKS!


    just read some of the free articles.


    i feel so safe right this second after reading Im’s post, checking in wiht my Inner/Higher Guidance. It is something from Inner Bonding. And the voice grows stronger! It’s like my big sister. She assured me everything’s ok.

    It’s really nice.

    Then i go in and take care of younger, hurt parts of myself – getting to take apart old beliefs in the process.

    But I always have My big sister too… inner guidance.

    Mercedes – I think you would like this for some reason.

  338.  #338Erika Awakening on September 7, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    I feel sad. Felt sad all day. Cried when my supervisor came in to talk to me. Apologized and yet felt unapologetic. Lol, my tears were authentic. I feel overwhelmed. Happy yet also just so much shifting at once, so much uncertainty, so many old values going out the window to make room for newness … and I feel bewildered.

    I feel I can get charged up about something one minute, and then something totally insignificant will happen, like tonight a person’s phone went straight to voicemail … and immediately all the urgency left my body, and all I felt was empathy. All I felt were all the reasons that the person may not have got back to me today, that have nothing to do with me. I felt soft and forgiving and understanding and sad and joyful all at once. I felt lots of “listening space.”

    I feel intrigued that I scrolled down the whole posts today and didn’t feel triggered by any of them. I noticed that I can hear all the Siren voices much more clearly now, that I feel resonance with Sirens I previously had conflict with, and I feel peaceful about all the views being expressed.

  339.  #339Daria on September 7, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    it is PRACTICAL

    male and female both. very much about our feelings… not abandoning ourselves

    how to stand up for ourselves AND not attack

    how to comfort ourselves

    and really


    i didnt even mean to get into it…

    but ive learned “hella shit” so to say

    and i just keep learning more of it… the articles rock


    I think I’m getting a lot better at not attacking guys… and tracking my feelings as in, heartache, etc. abandoning

    these weren’t feelings i was familiar with putting a “name” to

    we’re not like that in my family, if in my language, if in Anyone’s language… b

    but now I can TELL when it’s happening… to me… and see it in others!

    past triggers of abandonment.

    I think all abandoment must be from childhood… i mean, as an child you thought you wouldn’t survive

    it felt terrifying the couple of times my mom locked me out the door of the house

    omg i banged and cried so desperately

    i love myself

    i feel very good about this passion image like a telle novela

    i was brought up to passion

    and pain

    and i love passion

    and i bring JOY!!! thihs is me and im a lil kid and innocence and vulnerability and “dumbness” naivete



    baby daria

    i ahve passion and joy

    goo goo gaga


    i feel so “aww cute” and weird to be thinking about this “in front of you all”

    what’s going haha

    my mind is going on a trip

    oh must be the ganja

    or just me

    feeling good

    my inner baby feels good!!!

    now how many times do you get to say that?

    a million and one timese another milllion and one times factorial

    as many times as stars in teh sky, sands in the dunes, drops of water in the ocean



    thank you

    i love you cosmic child baby

    i feel the pain… idont know from where i feel it heavy

    thank you for that past lovely moment cosmic child baby daria even tho i feel all keeled over and in pain and slipping off now

    into feelng a lil more “normal” which was less than feeling like a happy baby

    ill just keep writing and see what comes out

    what happens


  340.  #340Daria on September 7, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    oh yeah i reread. the pain cuz i didnt believe it was true, what i was telling cosmic joy baby.

    that the world is all happy and stuff all the time

    i want to believe the world is happy all the time.

    i love myself

  341.  #341Daria on September 7, 2010 at 7:11 pm

    that woudl feel scary.

    but i want it anyway and i love myself

    and i choose to trust myself.

    here we go.

    im gonna do the ask and receive process

    i feel terrified.

    cross fingers.

    im gonna “allow it to be possible even tho i dont believe its possible”

  342.  #342Jacqueline on September 7, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    Erika, I wrote about seeking…and your post popped up. You may be one I shared a prickly energy with, but I see that I too can hear many voices now, and see amazing things in each one that I didn’t see before. You helped me to do that. Thank you.

    I love the fact that we had a truce and we walked that line and then we stepped over it and now I hear you feel sad and I can feel sad because you’re sad. It’s a special place I can go with people I am close to, so somehow we are close. And I hope you can be with your sadness and not tap it away…..cuz change often brings sadness – even change for the better, and you are changing. A brighter day’s coming….smile…


  343.  #343Daria on September 7, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    umm… that felt different than usual.

    i feel like crying now.


    now i feel overwhelmed…


    initially when i did it: i felt very matter of fact. even when i said it

    “a part of my being already knows that the world is happy all the time.”

    it sounded like duh its the truth. it sounded like a very differnt part of me than usually sounds like. it sounded like… not even duh. just like a schoolkid who is asked to spell house or something. like
    i know how to spell that. h o u s e.

    there was no resistance… almost a pull. almost like i wasnt even trying to change. it felt weird. i feel weird now.. i feel very surprised and suspicious about how easily that went.

    like, usually, i kinda have to push to ge tthe words out… and theres energy moving, pinching different parts of me, my shoulder, my eye twiches, my toe tingles

    this time… it felt like i was saying. h o u s e. so matter of fact

    everything went FAST

    like it was done before i knew, but even before i started saying it. like, the shift was already done when i started and it was just no resistance

    it was just stating the obvious

    it is obvious that the world is happy all the time

    i feel confused

    and weird

    i also have a tear falling down my face

    surely this means it shifted at a deep level

    i musta had an inner tetonic shift deeply

  344.  #344Lizzie on September 7, 2010 at 7:26 pm

    Jennifer – absolutely!

  345.  #345Daria on September 7, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    but seriously, it is pretty obvious and i thought of the evidence as i was saying it while i was saying it, so thats why it was so matter of fact

    cuz somewhere, right now on this earth
    someone is happy

    probably a buncha someones

    probably a whole buncha us out there

    and were gonna grow

    adn im one of them right now

    we gonna reach that critical tipping point…

    and we’re gonna “evolve” en masse

    to being happy

    no Exctacy needed


    go humanity


    go star people

    go earth peopole

    go cloud people

    tree peiople

    jaguar people dog people

    love people

    war bouce compete and brave and embrace death people

    happy happy people


    its like the matrix

    is coming down from sanctuary

    and coming over into our world
    and integrating

    into our energy system

    oh cool

    like the kingdom of heaven!

    that is very cool

    i love how all religions are the same

    this feels delightful

    like math

    i see the hologram


    blow the horns

    sound the trumpets


    now ay

    thats in the bible

    its like a castle

    with lil red flags

    thats what i was talking about

    and then its in the bible

    sooooo cool and crazy im speaking prophecies noww hehehheee

    i love me

    prophetess philosophix priestess… oooh this one thrills and scares meeeee

    i love magic life of goddess

    i cant believe i get to choose

    i can believe i can belive

    language is braided like knots

    in hair and mozarella

    unravel for me and spin a spell and swirl across to reach and touch

    what shall we touch?

    i feel bored out there hehe

    and hungry for my string…

    don’t reach out… its masculine… and i felt a loss of energy egch


    pull back star ray

    innner hide in shame. i feel ashamed! i treid to be masucline!

    i feel ashamed! im always trying to be msacuilne ! i feel confused ! freaked ougt! ugh

    i cant do this! i have to set an example lol!

    theyre gonna be like what di dwe telal u

    it doesnt work

    this masculine femieninge thing

    yes it does
    yes it does

    omg it does

    i love me anyway

    im glad i got thru that

    hid from the tomatoes behind this crate over here

    i love me
    crawling on hands and knees

    on stage

    while people are pelting me

    with my pretty purple short hair wig

    and black fishnets

  346.  #346Lizzie on September 7, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    Mercedes in #201 – fabulous!

    My wonderful kids are adopted – they have reached teenagehood and got very angry the other day with me when I said to someone that they were adopted. And they had every right to be angry! I felt so badly and am learning as well, that very few people need to know that. There is no need for me to really talk about my past and Rori made it clear to me that I didn’t need to explain the circumstances of the missing father. I feel so liberated! I don’t need to tell my whole story to everyone. Your insight is so powerful. It is so liberating not to talk about the past and to focus only on the right now and plans for my future. Thank you for sharing your insight.

  347.  #347Daria on September 7, 2010 at 7:37 pm

    Tapping dear Goddesses, does not make emotions go away, or clear them away…

    it relaxes our bodies, and its a trained way to communicate with our bodymind, our ability-to-do-it-all of our godessness

    its like taking a dive deep inside… so each emotion is Felt… honored… its like a daily ride of life, fast, in an inner journey… that might feel like a decade worth of living has been lived

    its a magical journey, by touching the magic spots in our bodies, and lighting them on firey swirls…

    and speaking words of our pain, joy, wisdom, imaginings.

    magic we wish to make and sights we wish to feel… new things … guidance… power… healing…

    its a way to grab our power in the fist and hiyah it across the universe, and back , in a boomerang

    or just a way to hold ourselves more deeply

    its honoring my body to tap into its sweet rivers of energy swirls, and give them my love and attention

    the base:

    i love and accept

    i choose

    i love

    i forgive


    i’ll add i celebrate

    and tell you how it goes

    i am the goddess of mischief.

    i tease and i giggle and leave

    and poke your heart

    and make you say hey

    and be lost

    and cry a little

    because its fun to cry

    and laugh a lot more

  348.  #348Daria on September 7, 2010 at 7:41 pm

    Yay Lizzie! yay Mercedes for being heard! yay for helping and getting helped and changing our lives the way we want to, and “the greatest gift you can give her women is let her be in charge of her life ” thing and yay

    yay to power freedom happiness

    wild horseyness

  349.  #349Renee on September 7, 2010 at 7:43 pm

    Hi Jaqueline — It’s soooooo nice to be missed!

    I finally broke things off with cougar man today…a week or so ago, I was starting to have actual feelings for him and he took an emotional step back. I freaked out a little, but was much better about it than I had been in the past, but I’m still working on replacing the belief that men leave when I start to care about them and it’s proving to be a difficult task, but I continue working on it. It may have had as much to do with my refusal to be exclusive with him as anything else, but it still felt like the repitition of an old pattern.

    I am thankful, at least, that didn’t have a total melt down (only a partial one:-), so I guess that’s progress.

    The past 2 weeks I’ve been seeing “Blondie” — a guy that has much more in common w/me than cougar man, at least on paper. My concern with him, as great as he is, is that he doesn’t make me laugh and that’s concerning. I’m trying to give it time to develop, but I’m definitely keeping my options open for a while…

    Looking forward to catching up with more of you wonderful sirens in the coming days!

  350.  #350Daria on September 7, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    that said, the end result could be seen… as EFT clearing the emotions… but there’s never a hollow feeling or a feeling of something lost, but always something gained… all is honored all is felt all is loved and accepted… after all that’s the setup phrase.


    any emotions that could be cleared… were stagnant and hurting and beging for help… oh i love you poor grabby emotions like zombie hands out of the dead people lake

    love you love you


    you come on out


    no you

    when i think of a new thingy i might make a net to get a whole buncha them out at once

    ymmy naked muddy emotions all gross like zombie fish smells running covered with seaweed to hide yourselves poor babies

  351.  #351Erika Awakening on September 7, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    Yeah, what Daria said. Nothing has gotten me more in touch with and honoring my feelings than tapping …

  352.  #352Erika Awakening on September 7, 2010 at 8:04 pm

    I listen intently to what my body is saying all the time. I trained myself to do this with tapping. If more people did this, there wouldn’t be any more dis-ease … the body is telling us all the time how to heal it, what’s out of balance … just few people listening

  353.  #353Ragnell on September 7, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    I’m getting angrier and angrier. After what I wrote, the answer from this guy was “I read your message. Sorry about that.”

  354.  #354Lizzie on September 7, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    Barb in Oz – you will never believe what I did! I called this woman who owns and runs a dating event organization. I was talking about my experiences with speed dating and on-line dating and my progress. Here response was very interesting…she said that the speed dating process works well with young people. They have fun, enjoy meeting people quickly and she said the young men like the quick introduction, size up and move on. She also said that they more typically end up hanging out and using the event to expand their circle. Then on to on-line – she said the same thing…better suited to young people and they tend to have more success. She said that “circular dinners” work well with the “older” crowd because we tend to prefer to engage in deeper conversations and tend to be more open to getting beyond pure physical attraction. She was not surprised by my on-line eperiences and said that she hears over and over that it is exceptionally difficult to actually meet the person. I thought it an intersting take on our earlier discussion on online dating for our age group.

    She was also saying that different “agencies” attract a different clientel so to be aware of that when signing up to events. Consider what part of town they are in, what type of event, time of the week etc. has an influence on how the event goes.

    What I am getting as a message, try everything, manage expectations, do a bit of background homework before deciding on the venue to try. I am going to try-out the “circular dinner” event later in the month.

  355.  #355Lizzie on September 7, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    Ragnell – Oops! I am missing what you wrote to your man in the first place.

  356.  #356Lucy on September 7, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    daria i felt peaceful relaxed joyful reading your poetic description of tapping. beautiful. thank you.

  357.  #357Ragnell on September 7, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    Lizzie it’s somewhere above. Scroll up to find it.

  358.  #358lm on September 7, 2010 at 8:32 pm


    this makes me wanna tap.

  359.  #359Daria on September 7, 2010 at 8:42 pm

    oooh im so excited! i just had a first IM conversation with a man… and i feel so good about how i handled my triggers… money, men role woman role, woh pays, his corniness – i laughed at him lol but didnt say he was corny – and then he laughed at me for saying i wanted to be married… mirror!! and ended with him asking for My number

    i tried a lot of new things… to say… that felt real and i felt feminine and stayed feminine.

    i really like how i did this!! wooo hooo!

    i am learning i am progressing!

    this is like a very typical convo for me, and i feel so pleased that this went so smooth!


    Here is the convo:


    hey sexy
    cai get to know you
    can i


    whats your name
    my name is dMAN2 [names have been changed to protect the innocent]

    my name is Daria

    do you have any kids
    where do you live at
    in [***YOUR DADDY’s TOWN :P]

    what do you do for a liven


    what is that…

    well i feel embarassed i guess
    im tryina figure it out to y i was trippin
    but yeah im not working right now

    it okay
    do you live alone

    this is kina feelin like an interview
    at first it was fun but now i feel bored

    how am i going to get to know you if i dont ask

    i dono

    i really want to get to know you

    how come

    you like my type of lady’

    like what
    how is that

    you look like a down to earth female
    it could just be a look tho
    but i want to find out

    im feelin unsure
    i wanna kno more about u too

    what do you want to know…

    tell me more

    and y u feelin unsure

    i dono
    oh yah cuz the interview thingy
    im not trippin tho
    i feel glad you want to kno me

    that’s whats up
    so what do you like to do for fun

    i like chillin smokin
    always feels nice
    im at the computer i like writing
    and reading stuff
    and dancing feels good
    i like eating
    and going out and meeting people

    well i like do do all that stuff to….but ur kissing one thing

    im kissing one thing?


    what u


    i feel confused now




    maybe you can come with money
    i feel kinda weird tho


    youre a man

    YES I AM

    i bet youre good at makin money
    or if not you will be


    {ladies i must say, on the rewrite. i am laughing out loud here!!! haha!!! it was soo easy… like baiting a troll on lord of the rings! “i AM good at it.” beats chest!!! loool!!!!! i’ve never said anything close to this money convo before }

    i am psychic


    wat u psychic too




    i will have to see how i feel


    thas wasup
    i feel excited to hear that
    thats what i want


    i feel pretty sure of myself
    someties i feel insecure tho
    i am doin my best tho an really im pretty awesome lol


    it would feel nice to talk to u


    i dont like calling men tho


    ummm… i feel amused
    you are silly




    im laughin


    talkin about cause we both wanna be somebody ro be with somebody


    hmm i feel scared when i think about it and i feel juiced too like thats something i want to do in life for sure
    get married and have a family


    now you’re loling


    mm i feel scared
    im still just learning
    how to get there
    im almost there tho
    i can feel it
    coming in the air tonite… hold onnn…
    i been waitin for this moment for all my life… hold onnn
    hold onn


    i like bein told that
    i dono why
    i guess i like bein crazy an funny
    im hi right now
    i feel good


    i dont like calling guys


    cuz i like it when a guy makes all the moves and stuff


    that will feel cool
    im at 1 800 GODDESS

  360.  #360lm on September 7, 2010 at 8:48 pm


    sweet. i had a conversation with a man about planning dates recently and he said ‘i want you to come up with ideas to please me. i have to do all the work.’ and i said ‘i don’t want to be your boyfriend. i am a girl.’ and he said ‘yeah, that is stupid to ask of you. you are right.’

    i felt scared and bitchy to have said it but now i think i can never go back to not saying it in the future.

  361.  #361Daria on September 7, 2010 at 8:48 pm

    ok then he texted me …

    and his text-signature was “if u look u took”

    now i suspected this boy was like a pimp, or a mack, or you know, a lot of these boys out here are into that, i was into it etc…

    so usually with these guys, which is typicalll… they get really triggered about expecting them to be chivalrous with money… cuz you know they are tyring to be theh player

    so i anyway being aware of that they are still men

    so this time i was able to speak my feelings and speak clearly about money… notice how he brough it up first which triggerd me and then we worked thru it to feeling good.

    so the text i said..

    lol! if you look you took … uhoh i feel funny i don’t want to be pimped im not into that

    what do you think?

    and he wreits back

    i just want to be friends


    im getting so GOOD at this!

    boy-playa-pimp training can’t see my Godess training



    and so thats how you break a young pimp these days
    pop my colla

    haha i feel teary eyed from excitement at winning this fun game

    and its great for both of us

  362.  #362Lizzie on September 7, 2010 at 8:51 pm

    Ragnell – I think I found it – #129?
    And his reaction was #357?

    Oh my goodness….I feel a great deal of pain in your message. Seems this relationship has come to a close. A train-smash by chance?? I am feeling a great deal of pain here. I am terribly sorry I have no word of comfort. It feels like a true blue walk away now – too much pain here. I am so very sad.

  363.  #363Daria on September 7, 2010 at 8:53 pm

    haha i felt afraid and guilty and weird like Mercedes would say — sorry Mercedes, random thought/guess in my head — its not a GAME.

    and im like, yeah what am i so thrilled about WINNING
    i dont want to win on men


    i want to WIN his affection

    not by winning tho

    but by being attractive

    im winning the im very attractive game

    and that feels pretty damn thrilling


    i love feeling attractive and i refuse to feel ashamed

    i love my rebeliionsness

    maybe this ia bout my mom

    i don o i feel confused and tightened


    aha thesa are TRAUMA reacitons… i remmeber us talking about his, but i didnt realize these everyday ones might be th esame ting


    htis felt weird now i got all elongated and my back is tingly

    energy just left me up the top of my spine

    bye entity!

    thank you!!
    have fun on your journey

    my eyes are watering i feel pulled over anad stretched

    i love my feelings

  364.  #364Daria on September 7, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    IM – yeah!!! and what i’ve found is that if i do go back to nto saying it, i feel resentful , knowing that i could be treated better
    and men want us to ensure we’re treated “better”

    tell meee what you want ♪

    tell meeee wat you need ♪♪

    tell me if it aint good enuf for you babye ♪♪

  365.  #365Jacqueline on September 7, 2010 at 8:59 pm

    @ BarbinOz….

    I’ve always wondered about this – because it is what I did and keep preaching about! lol….and Rori just posted it -– “This is just your first date of many. First internet dates are meet-and-greets – shouldn’t be dinner (but you’ve already set it up…) should just be coffee or walking dates – no more than an hour so you’re not committed past that…If he said he’s willing to drive to you – MEET him at the restaurant close to you because you don’t know who he is. Later on, you can meet him in the city…but for now, let him come to you. Love, Rori”

    totally right on – less than an hour, leave them wanting more, make them come to you….etc. exactly what I did and that feels good!

  366.  #366Jacqueline on September 7, 2010 at 9:01 pm

    Hi, Lizzie….feeling better? loving your advise voice! You should totally be the advice columnist @ Liveyourdreamblog.com! grins….

    g’nite all, sleep well….
    dream and create….


  367.  #367lm on September 7, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    yeah. i would have never ever said that before because i thought it would have scared the guy away and (probably) I DIDN’t REALLY BELIEVE I WAS THE GIRL (woah! something to do EFT on there)…i always thought i had to work for everything, every little scrap, had to put up with things that made me feel sad or mad or disrespected.

    i am an entirely different woman now. i can even tell a guy i want to get married and have kids pretty early early on, whereas i was so afraid before and i so thought i wasn’t really worthy of that stuff that i didn’t talk about it with a guy i dated for EIGHT YEARS. i recently told a guy that i work with that i’ve been into (it’s mutual) for years that i want kids. that’s a huge breakthrough for me. admitting to myself (and then others) that it’s okay to want real things like that. it’s not bad. i can have it. it makes me feel sad i ever thought differently about myself.

  368.  #368lm on September 7, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    and the guy who wanted me to plan dates then picked me up and took me to the movies. i said i felt like going to see a show and so he texted me and picked the movie, showed up at my work to get me and took me to the theatre. then he gave me a kiss when he took me home (i didn’t go to his place because i felt tired).

    ask and ye shall receive.

  369.  #369dorothea on September 7, 2010 at 9:20 pm

    lm, that’s awesome.

    the words “i’m stubborn” started ringing in my ears tonight after a fairly tumultuous day. a big smile crept over my face. I love my stubbornness. I don’t want to beat myself up anymore about it or feel guilty because i am stubborn either. I’m not really sure why I was even doing that in a first place. I’m awesome because I’m stubborn. Duh!

  370.  #370lm on September 7, 2010 at 9:23 pm

    some other things i feel like receiving (let’s see if this works):

    -a raise
    -to get my last short story published
    -magic guitar solo abilities
    -a tattoo
    -a surprise party, just once in my life

  371.  #371dorothea on September 7, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    i am incredibly powerful. that is why/because people are inexplicably drawn to me.

    my negative voices are so strong. i must be a firey powerfulness to contain such strong and powerful things. that feels amazing.

  372.  #372Nikita on September 7, 2010 at 10:39 pm

    330: Daria says:

    Nikita – how did you deal when they did kiss you, start to make love to you…

    and you initially felt kinda neutral and icky…

    like… ew a lot of spit… mhm i feel like giggling..


    in the past i’ve kinda feel like throwing up and my body recoils when certain men start to make love to me (even when they were my lover before)

    Tuesday, 7 September 2010 @ 5:33pm

    Hi Daria,

    I feel sleepy but I am going to answer this question……somehow 😉

    Um…. One tried kissing me on the first date…so I turned my face and served up my cheek and a hug….along with a giggle….the entire time we were at lunch I kept thinking….ha! This dude is really trying to woo me! Omg! I’m gonna have to tell him he’s probably never going to get a chance to swim in these waters….ha !! 😉
    Well we kissed maybe two months after dating….. And whoa! Let’s call him whiTe lightening….I felt a bolt run down my toes….that was a deep kiss…but the peck was where we started…he was so happy….I couldn’t help it he was so patient with me and chivalrous….and complimented me on my fave shoes (which were not heels btw) so I was feeling super turned on that he shared my good taste 🙂

  373.  #373Nikita on September 7, 2010 at 10:59 pm

    Then there is the other guy who was an even bigger surprise……I just thought this dude was corny….like KornBawl lol!!! He was so perky and kinda scrawny…mildly dashing but not at all as masculine as what I was interested in…..he got kissed earlier because he would steel little quick pecks that were more annoying than anything, I remember staring at him on our dates thinking c’mon dude get real! Who the F- are you? Are you real or a cardboard cutout of some cartoon? Like do you even have a c*ck? I mean you can’t be a virgin but I couldn’t even imagine this guy having sex AT ALL!
    Well after many months and two different starts…something clicked……I was so ready to move on and I felt respect for him…..I felt safe….I felt seen……and I felt horny….so even though his pecks felt like a 7 year old crush playin spin the bottle or something with the big kids….I made out with him one night and his cuddle game was off the chain!!!!! He fit around my body so wonderfully…..I did not want to get out of his bed in the morning but I had too much to do…..well…
    The next time we hooked up I felt excited!!!!…..it wasn’t long after that that we went “all the way”. I have never been ravished the way he ravished me….completely and utterly devoured me in every sense of the word…..I could definitely spend the rest of my life wrapped up in his arms…..I don’t know for sure if he could be my happily ever after in all ways….but in the one way I could not conceive he set a new standard…….fortunately the feeling was/is mutual….. But I’m busy with someone else at the moment….
    My point is I felt SURPRISED….. I felt like slapping somebody 😉

    My LI now is way different…..and good in other ways….they are opposites but when it comes to surprising me…..it’s all the same

  374.  #374Nikita on September 7, 2010 at 11:01 pm

    Haha….I wrote steel!

    I meant steal…..as in “stolen kisses”

    But steel is mildly appropriate….omg……TMI


  375.  #375Tina on September 7, 2010 at 11:29 pm

    “Something” triggered an almost anxiety attack today while I was driving in the city blah! I need some sleep, sleep would feel good for my body. I love my feels of anxiety. I feel angry too, that Im not DOING enough for myself blah to that too!

  376.  #376Tina on September 7, 2010 at 11:40 pm

    I went to see my daughter, she broke up with her “boyfriend” quit smoking ciggies, quit smoking pot and is walking 40 minutes to work everyday, omg! I just love her, I looked at her shoes and her shoes were pretty worn out awe, I feel sad. She said she THINKS she can finally make it on her own SNIFF, I feel sad and proud. She is 23 yrs old. Oh and she waxed my eyebrows perfectly 🙂

    She got over her boyfriend in two days she said, and is meeting lots of new people and is enjoying her life. I told her she will feel lonely but thats ok too , she said no I dont feel lonely , only for two days, we laughed.

  377.  #377Tina on September 7, 2010 at 11:43 pm

    I bought her coffee, we chatted. She wants to have her own business rather than work for a cosmetics chain, I spoke with her boss, she said my daughter is hers now sniff.

  378.  #378Tina on September 7, 2010 at 11:52 pm

    I can help her with her business plan, at the very least. I can make her business plan hehe but is that doing to much? I dunno we’ll see.

  379.  #379Tina on September 8, 2010 at 12:04 am

    My son is a train wreck that happened a couple of times, god love him 🙂 so defiant and full of questions and pissed off at the world for not having cures for diseases but having the ability to block sun rays and a pot head sorta.

  380.  #380Tina on September 8, 2010 at 12:07 am

    He’s starting grade 11 tomorrow and already giving me grief for buying him new clothes 🙁

  381.  #381Tina on September 8, 2010 at 12:18 am

    I feel like a mother hen, but I did manage to walk like a goddess, and I noticed I turned some heads, as a matter of fact, when I walked down the stairs to the cafeteria where my daughter works, I was like oh yeah 🙂 ALL heads turned hehe dont look to hard *smile

  382.  #382Tina on September 8, 2010 at 12:30 am

    Her boyfriend KNEW that something changed and called her to tell her tht he wants to marry her. sounds kinda like she is cd’ing but with no tools, I feel sad about this, I want to help her 🙂

  383.  #383Tina on September 8, 2010 at 12:44 am

    My son wants to study law and psychology and wants to get more involved with photography. I said to him, let’s just get through grade 11 please, we’re going to do the photography boot camp this year, he missed summer , the next one starts march break. My daughter and I think he would do great modeling but he doesnt think so, we think underwear model lol but yeah, he thinks were making fun of him.

  384.  #384Ruth on September 8, 2010 at 1:31 am

    I feel pretty overwhelmed by the openness and level of sharing of emotions here. So many of the comments touch something inside me and it all just wants to burst out like a volcano.

    I came here because I know I have to change something in some kind of behaviour pattern, or in thinking pattern. I learned, that if I want to really change something, sometimes I have to listen to the people that offend me most, the ones that make me angry, the ones that seem to be my enemies. Those people often tell me what I need to hear, but resent, rather then what I want to hear in order to strengthen myself in my position.
    (The first change I made is to rewrite the above by replacing all the “you” with “I” – feels totally different. But why do I feel like I have to explain myself?)

    So far I’ve only dated guys, when I was sure I knew what to expect. I had a very clear intuition and it was very hard to surprise me. I could pride myself in my fabulous intuition. Now I wonder: did I choose my date according to whom I could figure out? And if I couldn’t I simply wouldn’t date?

    Post # 133 Nikita – Be surprised – I felt that was an annoying post. Thank you for that! It annoyed me because I wanted to block it out, but I really hate surprises, and I love to stay in control.

    Nikita, obviously I got offended by your comments about the Israeli thing as well. I really did not want to make it an issue, but since I am here to change, I will.
    It is a fact that there are different behavioural codes in different cultures. You can act the same way but be interpreted completely different by people from different cultures. Also meeting someone from a different culture within your own cultural framework isn’t the same as actually going into that persons culture. In other words, meeting an Israeli (or Italian or Chinese or Arab or whatever) in America is not the same as living with them in their culture, because he (or she) will do his best to understand and adapt to local behavioural codes. He needs to, in order to be understood.
    In Israel there are people from many different cultural backgrounds, from oriental to Russian to Anglo Saxon and African and believe me, living here you have to be able to discern and adapt to these different codes, not only when it comes to dating. The differences can give reason for a lot of conflict and tension on all levels (and they do).
    I prefer to date Anglo Saxon men because it is just so much easier to get past those differences and there are much less misunderstandings. Mind you, my second husband was from a Moroccan family, so it’s not like I don’t know anything else. I also know the differences don’t ever go away, one just has to learn to deal with them.

    I feel that these different behavioural codes present an additional difficulty I have to deal with in this country.
    Now, what triggered me about you sharing your experience with the one Israeli the way you did, was that I felt you were playing that down. I said the whole “leaning back” strategy was not easy to apply and you tell everybody how easy it was for you to lean back with an Israeli. It felt like you are showing everybody (not me, because you didn’t address me directly) that I don’t know how to do it and I don’t know what I am talking about. Well, you know what? I don’t. That’s why I’m here.

    I know it’s difficult for everybody and everyone has their own reasons. I just want to feel that mine are being accepted, even though they may not be understood. If I can’t get that here, then where can I?

    So, Nikita, nothing personal. You brought a lot out of me.

    I am going to allow myself to be surprised – ah, how scary! And how exciting!

    Have a great day all of you…

  385.  #385BarbinOz on September 8, 2010 at 3:04 am

    Lizzie #358

    Very interesting post, I have wondered since joining POF back in March this year whether it wasn’t better to be on a serious paid dating site where at least the people ACTUALLY wanted to meet rather than endless emails, and maybe lots of them are married, their wives are not going to find unexpected debits on their bank statements are they?? Funny enough POF has been advertising a new dating site of theirs these past few days called EVOW for people wanting serious relationships!!

    I was a paid member of match.com a few years back but found that to be full of Nigerian scammers, some even had platinum memberships (!!!) but I suppose it is an investment to them as they fleece women out of thousands of $$$, sounds unbelievable but one woman I read of had been done out of $40,000.00 USD!! These people are GOOD at what they do and hone on in vulnerable and lonely women….

    I do hope the “dinner party” thing is better in the USA than what it is here in Australia, mind you I am going back about 5 years to when my gf and I did the “David’s Dinner Party” thing here in Sydney, we thought we were onto a winner of available sexy men, my God what a disappointment that was, we still laugh about it to this day, all those lovely clothes we bought in anticipation and we only lasted one night LOL!!

  386.  #386Lizzie on September 8, 2010 at 5:17 am

    Barb – I had a similar experience with Match – I spotted it, and played but what a wast of money for me. I wasted money on:
    Single Parents
    Date a Golfer
    Lavalife – I had paid for this one for 18 months and didn’t have one match!

    I was on free sites:
    Plenty of Fish – met some interesting men
    OK Cupid (got matched with very interesting women!)
    Adult Friend Finder (this is funny)

    I might think of a dating service, but it is really pricy – have you thought of this in Oz?

  387.  #387mary on September 8, 2010 at 6:37 am

    hello Nikita,


    heLLLOOOOOOO! Nikita!!!!

    what an amazing description 377 of surprise guy!

    and you’d rather be with someone else?

    or both?

    how does it work?

  388.  #388mary on September 8, 2010 at 6:46 am

    hello, goodbye exclusivity. my man is wavering. it’s time for me to put my profile back online as he never took his off.

    what to say, what to say when he spots it? or talk to him first and then go back online?

    will you please help me with my speech? i’m gonna tell you sirens how i feel and then can you help me turn it around for him?

    I FEEL…

    wildly, crazily attracted to him – to his facial expressions, the sound of his voice, the things he says… wow.

    reckless and carefree and trying new things with him. i love my explorations.

    happy to just do nothing with him.


    is to be with a man who’s blowing hot and cold about me

    is to be waiting for Mr. Spontaneity to call and suddenly want to see me now.

    is to be taken for granted.

    is for him to lose interest because i’m always available.

    is to miss out on what i might have done if there had been some real plans happening, and i could plan around those plans.


    i can’t just say those things to him…

    night before last, we got together and he was distant at first. it was an evening that really agreed with me; i loved the weather and the colors and i didn’t let his mood affect mine. and he suddenly changed and started really getting in to me… talking into the future about things he wanted to do with me, etc.

    last night, he was “taking some time…”


    i liked dating around and being in control of my time. that won’t happen with exclusivity, but i didn’t picture the waiting.

    waiting for plans.
    having him call me and say, “i’m doing such-and-such. call you when i’m finished…” as if i’m sitting here, just waiting.


    not for me.

    now what?

  389.  #389mary on September 8, 2010 at 6:47 am

    oh. my profile was already hidden when we started actively dating… so putting it on now would be kind of a shocker. but, oh well… !!!

  390.  #390Lizzie on September 8, 2010 at 7:51 am

    Mary – yeah Mary Circle Dating!!! too much fun – you are too available!!! Where is Rori’s post about anchor and elastic band?? did you see that one? I will never get this right but will try – you are the anchor and he is the elastic band – moving away, bounce back, move away, bounce back – all normal – this guy likes you.

    The what to do – get busy CDing. Take yourself out, go to fitness class, go meet your friends for coffee, make your own plans. When he calls for a date and you are busy, well, guess what, you are busy.

  391.  #391Jennifer on September 8, 2010 at 8:01 am

    I am making me super yummy totally healthy yogurt.
    So it’s the high fat kind…who cares?
    700 billion active cells per one cup serving.
    Then yummy yogurt chicken.
    I look after me.

  392.  #392Brenda on September 8, 2010 at 8:02 am

    I feel happy about Ryan!

    I confess, I have been really missing him, and I have been texting him or calling him almost every weekend, when missing him gets the better of me. On Sunday, Aug 29th, we had an especially positive text session, and I decided to fly on the power of that and renew my efforts at completely leaning back.

    I was rewarded just now! He was probably surprised he didn’t hear from me last weekend! He initiated texting to me! Here was the conversation:

    R: Are you doing ok?

    B: Yes, thank you! How are you?

    R: Doing ok.

    R: What have you been up to?

    B: Lots of swimming, walking, time with friends. I feel so thankful I still have the same job. What have you been up to?

    R: Just trying to get close to God and get healed. How have you been feeling?

    B: That’s awesome! I’m really feeling in love with God! On earth I feel so alone and lonely and leading a life so separate from you. I miss feeling close to you. How have you been feeling?

    R: Alright.

    I took the bulk of my last feeling message from a past one Rori posted. I really considered doing a feeling message about not wanting a text only relationship. I am just not sure if it is premature. This is the first time he initiated contacting me in a few months.

    I feel frustrated when I answer his questions fully and he just gives me something lame like “Alright” or “I’m doing ok”.

    I know this may seem trite to some people, but it’s really important to me, and I am still in love with Ryan. I welcome anyone’s feedback. Do you think I should respond again? If so, what would be an appropriate feeling message?

    If he initiates again in the future, would it be appropriate to give him this feeling message:

    “I feel sad… I don’t want a text only relationship. What do you think?”

    In the past, as in several months ago, I gave him a couple similar feeling messages, and he ignored them. He seemed to respond a week and a half ago when I told him how much I miss him. So that’s why I chose that feeling message. What do you think?

  393.  #393mary on September 8, 2010 at 8:04 am


    what wonderful insights everyone has had about your situation. i was totally surprised to hear that Bill was gay (and relieved, too, for some reason.)

    did anyone mention this? 141 maybe the woman who said she liked it before you were sitting near her meant just that? she liked her space. NOT ABOUT YOU. about her space. that’s what i thought when i read what she said. and her vibe was negative because she liked her space before you came. what she wanted was more good feelings of aloneness. more being able to not react or interact with anyone. more nothingness in her environment so her thoughts could roam.

    i must admit that i like my space, too. if anyone invades it, they might feel rejected. i need lots of space.

    just sayin’

    maybe it’s not about you.

  394.  #394Brenda on September 8, 2010 at 8:07 am

    Thanks again everyone for your sweet support and encouragement yesterday! I really appreciate you all! I chatted with Bill (Yes, I went to HIS desk) just before I left yesterday. I thot he might be feeling vulnerable about telling me he is gay. I said, “I’m just stopping by to say good night.”

    He said, “I stopped by your desk a little earlier, but you weren’t there.”

    “Just for the record, you’re a handsome hunk!”

    He put his hands on his belly and said, “Even with this??”

    “I look at the heart, and you have a beautiful heart. I mean, you’re handsome on the outside, too, but you are a real sweetheart!”

    He said, “Thank you. I really felt flattered when I got your email.”

    I said, “All else aside, you are one of my all-time favorite coworkers.”

    He said, “Aww, thank you! I really enjoy working with you, too, and we have a lot of fun. You really do a good job.”

    We chatted more than that, and, even tho I feel bad, I felt much better after chatting with him again, after it had had time to sink in. I feel I have a stronger ally at work than ever, and I really value that.

  395.  #395Brenda on September 8, 2010 at 8:12 am

    Hi Mary!

    Yes, you are probably right. I would want to remain alone if I had a desk in the back corner! I did sense a lot of judgmentalism at every turn, but I will give her the benefit of the doubt. Why not have generous thoughts toward her? I can just about hear her nasty voices, but then again, we all have emotional damage, right?

    Yes, I really felt blown away by everyone’s compassion and support. I felt a bit embarrassed about the whole thing before you all, but I reminded myself yet again that this whole process is largely about learning to love myself, even my weak, not-so-pretty parts!

  396.  #396Brenda on September 8, 2010 at 8:17 am

    For Ryan, how about, “I feel sad…I don’t want you to just say ‘alright'”?

  397.  #397dorothea on September 8, 2010 at 8:22 am

    hey brenda – that’s gotta feel good that ryan initiated. according to rori’s tools and programs, you would ideally let him ALWAYS initiate. i wouldn’t text him back after all he said is “alright”. it would be leaning forward when it’s his turn to initiate. i am not sure how to put it into words, and i may be on my own feeling this, but something about texting him about the quality of his response feels very needy.

    what do you think?

  398.  #398Nikita on September 8, 2010 at 8:35 am


    I could go either way 🙂

    There’s been some back and forth between the two….not much but enough where I can appreciate both of them. Initially 377 man was looking pretty pathetic in my eyes compared to Mr. 376…. Or whichever post it was. Then my perception became inverted and 377 became very desirable. And then it flipped back again! For me, this is where choosing to have the “relationship” instead of “a particular man” proves to be the prudent move( I love that word) when one or the other turns me off. . . .or on 😉
    I feel like I’m rambling……I adore both of them but I’m more curious to see how they either step up or not and if one doesn’t work out I already know there’s another man just as exciting…..and at the same time I feel open to someone new altogether…..I feel relieved that I don’t have to make the decision….why bother?
    Wait, actually I’d prefer the one that produces a ring. That would signal to me his intentions….
    I also would like that experience….to be properly engaged and sink into those feelings of being a couple not just “seeing someone”.

  399.  #399Brenda on September 8, 2010 at 8:35 am

    Renee, RE: #339 – You said, “…it struck me as kind of odd weeks ago when Bill told you Lady Gaga was his favorite artist.”

    At that time, I ran it by Kenny, who is strong masculine energy. He said, “There’s nothing wrong with that. I like Lady Gaga!” then he went on to comment on the shape of her pussy lips which are quite visible thru her skimpy clothing in her videos! LOL! So I didn’t think anything more of it. She is a talented artist.

    Yet yesterday Bill mentioned that as being an indication of his gayness.

    It’s possible my not knowing is a reflection of how I really haven’t been that deeply immersed into society.

  400.  #400Brenda on September 8, 2010 at 8:42 am


    Of course, I know I am supposed to lean back all the time. I am doing much better, and I am growing by baby steps. I am doing my best.

    I will let the text convo rest. Yes, it is probably based in need, but what is in my mind when that frustrates me is how we logged sooo many hours last year in pillow talk. Ryan would ask me a probing question. I would respond in full. Then if I asked him the same question back, he would give me a canned answer like, “I don’t know”; “I haven’t really thought about it.”; “I guess so.”

    He always kept his heart of heart hidden. If I knew then what I know now, I would have stopped responding so deeply. I will never engage in a relationship again where I don’t know as much about a man as he knows about me. He is the most guarded person I ever encountered.

    So while it might look minor to you, it’s huge to me. He hardly ever shares anything deeply of himself.

    Next time he texts, do you think I should give the message about not wanting a text only relationship? He knows my true feelings all along here, ever since last November when he stopped seeing me. If he stopped getting MY true feelings by text, he would have to choose between seeing me face to face or not know anything about me.

  401.  #401Erika Awakening on September 8, 2010 at 8:43 am

    Looking back, I see it was just the ego that was insisting that a relationship move forward at a certain time … just like my life has moved forward in quantum leaps organically after I addressed lots of inner conflicts with HBR, so relationships are the same way … and trying to force them to fit a mold that they don’t want to grow into at a certain time does nothing but sabotage them …

    If I’m really honest about it, if a relationship is not moving toward commitment, it has nothing to do with HIM … it’s some inner conflict in ME that is resisting … and by putting the blame on him, I’ve given my power away, because all my power lies in changing myself …

  402.  #402Lucy on September 8, 2010 at 8:43 am

    Hi Brenda, Dorothea, Mary, Jennifer, and whoever else is here this morning. 🙂

    Brenda, what a cool convo with Bill! That feels so good to read and I hope it felt good to you to experience it.

    I love this line you wrote to Mary about the female co-worker: “Why not have generous thoughts toward her?” That feels so beautiful and healing and loving to me!

    Yay for Ryan initiating! I agree with what Dorothea wrote about where to go from here — if you are able and it agrees with your intuition.

    When I read the text convo, the thing that I noticed was that you were very quick to reciprocate with questions — something Rori recommends not doing so much of — and Daria taught me about that in several convos on here a few months ago — that it is good to just keep letting the guy ask about YOU, the goddess, and you keep responding with feeling messages about YOU — and then eventually you get around to asking how he’s doing. I also think I read somewhere that although asking how he is doing is okay, you should never ask how he is FEELING.

    So, this:

    R: Are you doing ok?

    B: Yes, thank you! How are you?

    Next time, leave out the “How are you?”

    And the “What have you been up to?”

    I like this: “I feel so thankful I still have the same job.”

    This — “Lots of swimming, walking, time with friends” — might be nicer with feelings added — such as, “Feeling relaxed swimming, energized by walking, feeling refreshed spending time with friends. :)”

    If you didn’t ask him how he was feeling, he wouldn’t have been able to write that lame, “Alright.” 🙂

    Rori says men want to see and hear us loving OURSELVES and then they will love us too. When you keep turning the focus back onto him, you lose that.

    BUT — you are doing great!! And it feels like something has shifted for you. Do you feel that, or is it just me? Lol.

    Love you!


  403.  #403Brenda on September 8, 2010 at 8:47 am

    BarbinOz, RE: #332 – You said, “Brenda, WOW is all I can say. Once you are over the initial shock, Bill could turn out to be the best friend you ever had.

    What a relief you will feel when it sinks in that none of this is about YOU.”

    Thank you! Yes, I would really like that! I am going to just take baby steps, but we already have an 8 month friendship, and it would feel fantastic if I could bounce off relational stuff to him about other men! I’m not going to push that, but the thot crossed my mind. I’m just going to be a good friend to him.

    Thanks for the reminder that it’s not about me! 🙂

  404.  #404Lucy on September 8, 2010 at 8:47 am

    Mary, I feel a lil confused. Did you and your guy agree to be exclusive or not? If so, I would want to say to him, to start with, “I feel confused. I don’t want to feel confused about whether or not we are exclusive. What do you think?”

  405.  #405Lucy on September 8, 2010 at 8:49 am

    TN man likes Lady Gaga too, and he’s definitely not gay. He is, however, interested in anything that is “outside the box.”

  406.  #406Lucy on September 8, 2010 at 8:52 am

    “Next time he texts, do you think I should give the message about not wanting a text only relationship?”

    My gut feeling says No, but it’s not my situation, so I would say go with YOUR gut feeling — if you know you can trust your gut. 🙂

  407.  #407Lucy on September 8, 2010 at 8:57 am

    Good morning, Erika.

    I really love this: “… relationships are the same way … and trying to force them to fit a mold that they don’t want to grow into at a certain time does nothing but sabotage them …”

    It kinda goes along with what I keep coming back to regarding WH — “Trust him.” That’s what I keep hearing in my heart. Trust keeps my heart open to him and it keeps him from feeling pushed into a mold. It also respects him for who he is — and who he isn’t. What do you think?

  408.  #408Nikita on September 8, 2010 at 8:59 am

    In regards to 133, I was feeling annoyed as all get out when I wrote it…..maybe your intuition picked up my own annoyance……

    I also dated an israeli from morocco 🙂
    I believe his parents moved there from israel but now they live in Paris….near his ex-wife and son…but he lives in NYC…..and travels back and forth to see his them…… He was very different from the other one I dated…. Well, they were both height challenged…ha!
    I once went with one for the traditional folk-dancing and the place was packed!! It looked so fun and different from the nightclub parties by the Israeli promoters…..but one involved vodka and the other didn’t …….either way….I wish you the best here and everywhere you are.

  409.  #409Lucy on September 8, 2010 at 9:00 am

    Mary, I also like what Lizzie wrote to you. Great reminders, Lizzie! 🙂

  410.  #410mary on September 8, 2010 at 9:13 am

    So Lucy and Lizzie and anyone else… !!!

    think i should put my profile back up? i keep doing it, then hiding it, then doing it, then hiding it…


    i feel like i’m still waiting.

    and i am very busy.

    he talked about it being time to get more physical. i said i wanted to get tests first. (does anyone else ever do that?) so i went to the doctor. he did not. and i said it would mean taking his profile off… and he said, “absolutely,” but then didn’t. and i said that i eventually wanted to get married and just asked if he’d ever be up for that and he said yes. and we got physical anyway. oh. mistake! but i forgive myself.

    and now… backing away a bit.

    mmmmmmm… i’d give WHAT for the perfect body?

    okay, to the gym…

    and the other night we had an amazing evening and watched a movie. he wanted to stay over. i said no.

    hmmm… i’m so out of my element here.

    i knew this would happen once i got into 2nd and 3rd tier dating. 1st and 2nd dates were a piece of cake. all about who pays. now, the tricky stuff…

    what do you all think? profile or not? without talking to him first?

  411.  #411mary on September 8, 2010 at 9:15 am

    he’ll probably call today. not sure what to tell him…

  412.  #412dorothea on September 8, 2010 at 9:19 am

    Brenda, I don’t think his texting you is minor, even if he hadn’t logged all those hours with you last year. I mean, I overanalyze every text a man sends me. What does it mean? What does it mean that he texted and didn’t call? What does it mean that it’s 11 pm and not a decent hour? What does it mean that he’s sneaking texts from work v. texting me on his break? what does it mean that he is saying short responses, or long ones????? None of that sh*t feels minor. I feel relieved now understanding that no matter how major it feels, or minor, or how long i have known him, or not known him, the basic feminine principle of leaning back always applies:)

    I noticed you seemed like you wanted to remind me that you “know” that you’re supposed to lean back. I just want you to know that when I present my opinions about how to go about things the Rori way on the Rori blog, I like putting it in the context of the general concept. It’s not because I don’t think you know that. It’s because I take pride in my intellectual integrity. Promise!

  413.  #413Lucy on September 8, 2010 at 9:22 am

    Now, I have something I would like feedback on, if anyone feels moved. Lol. It’s not a big deal, but I’m just very curious about it….

    What do you all think about synchronicity vs. meaningless coincidence?

    That is, are surprising coincidences sometimes meaningless or do they always mean something?

    Here’s the coincidence in question:

    The other night, when WH and I were texting, he said something that was ever-so-slightly provocative (sexually). Then he wrote, “Oops.”

    I wrote, “Oops? Lol. Is that all you have to say for yourself? Lol.”

    He wrote, “You don’t want to know what I have to say! I’d lose my halo again!”

    (The halo comment was in reference to something I had said about a month ago.)

    I wrote, “I do want to know what you have to say. To hell with halos!”

    He wrote, “How did we ever get on the church track?”

    I wrote, “Lol. What do you mean?”

    Him: Not really sure.

    (I still don’t know what he meant by the church comment, and apparently he’s not sure, either! If any of you has a clue, I’d love to hear it!!!)

    Anyway, here’s the coincidence part:

    The next day I was mopping the kitchen floor while listening to the radio. I started thinking about that halo/church convo — just kinda remembering it and smiling a lil and also wondering what he meant with the church part —

    And suddenly, a brand new song came on the radio — it was new, and it was the first time I ever heard it — and the lyrics (when it got to the chorus) immediately caught my attention:

    Let’s run away
    Where nothing stands between me and you
    Let’s find a place
    Somewhere a little closer to a dream
    And call it a home
    Where there’s no right and wrong
    And we can be all alone

    And I’ll take off my halo
    If you take off your wings.
    You don’t have to be invincible
    Cause I sure ain’t no saint
    You’ll always be my angel
    No matter what you do,
    Cause you take me to heaven just by being you

    Tell me a secret
    Tell me things no one else should know
    Even in your weakness
    Baby drop your guard just let it go
    Until everything’s exposed
    And you don’t have to feel ashamed
    Baby just say my name

    And I’ll take off my halo
    If you take off your wings.
    You don’t have to be invincible
    Cause I sure ain’t no saint
    You’ll always be my angel
    No matter what you do,
    Cause you take me to heaven just by being you

    When I see you standing there
    You know it all becomes so clear
    The way you look
    The way you touch
    I need the way you lift me up
    This will never feel complete
    Until there’s nothing in between
    And we have brought down every wall
    And baby, baby, baby lets just fall

    And I’ll take off my halo
    If you take off your wings.
    You don’t have to be invincible
    Cause I sure ain’t no saint
    You’ll always be my angel
    No matter what you do,
    Cause you take me to heaven just by being you

    You take me to heaven
    Just by being you

    Let’s run away
    Let’s run away


    I was stunned by the coincidence!

    What do you think? Meaningless coincidence or meaningful synchronicity?

  414.  #414Brenda on September 8, 2010 at 9:23 am


    RE: #406 – You said, “the thing that I noticed was that you were very quick to reciprocate with questions — something Rori recommends not doing so much of…”

    Thank you for your encouragement, and yes, I am shifting quite deeply in many ways! Thank you for noticing!

    I am aware Rori says not to reciprocate questions…in a normal case. This is NOT a normal case. This is a case where, in the past, I did NOT reciprocate questions, because I could tell he was uncomfortable with that, and he was hiding a nest of evil spirits that attacked me worse than I’ve ever been attacked.

    I have promised myself I will never reveal more of myself than what a man is revealing. This is a fundamentally VERY unhealthy relationship that I do not want UNLESS it turns around. So I am fine-tuning my relational style with him.

    I don’t know if Erika’s most recent post was directed to me, but if trying to get him to say more than “Alright” is forcing the relationship, then my alternative is this…

    Next time he texts me, I will say I don’t want a text only relationship. And not answer ANY of his questions, beyond “fine”, because it is not fair that he is constantly delving into my heart and will not open his. I have proven beyond proof that he can trust me. So that is no longer an issue between us.

    If he is not willing to open up to me, then there can be no friendship. What do you think?

    Also, I ask how he’s feeling because altho he is verifiably NOT gay (:-) ), he has high feminine energy. It is a constant challenge to outgirl him. But I do ask how he feels because he is very feeling-based, as we are.

    I believe this is what Rori talks about when she says to experiment and find YOUR own use for the tools. I am dealing with a VERY toxic man here.

    And I am deeply in love with him. Still. So I am trying to be cautious. Like Ryan says, “Feelings are everything.” If he won’t share with me his feelings, he is not telling me where HE is at. It is not fair for me to tell him where I am at over and over when he gives me no compass at all. Right?

  415.  #415Nikita on September 8, 2010 at 9:24 am


    I feel confused by this….I agree with it but is this in reference to VG or any man…all men?
    I agree about something in a woman shutting down and thereby deflecting commitment but since not everyone is attracted to everybody I feel a little curious about what you’re expressing here;

    ” If I’m really honest about it, if a relationship is not moving toward commitment, it has nothing to do with HIM … it’s some inner conflict in ME that is resisting … and by putting the blame on him, I’ve given my power away, because all my power lies in changing myself …”

  416.  #416Lucy on September 8, 2010 at 9:28 am

    Mary, how many dates have you had with him?

    I feel bad reading, “mmmmmmm… i’d give WHAT for the perfect body?” — as if you are feeling your body was the reason he backed away??? That feels bad and untrue. 🙁

  417.  #417mary on September 8, 2010 at 9:30 am

    Erika, I’m wondering about that, too. Why is his inability to commit my fault? Some guys really are commitment phobes.


    I feel helpless! Standing at the shore, waving goodbye to the boat that’s going out on the water (where I want to be) without me.

    Without me…

    i played it wrong?

    i know. there’re other guys out there. but this one is special. oh…

    he’s been “taking time” for three or four days this week…

    Lizzie, were you suggesting just going out with other people and circular dating in that regard? just being busy? getting into things? or were you suggesting going out with other guys? i’m not sure he’s going out with other women, but possibly… maybe… and he’s surely feeling a bit trapped. that doctor thing is a big hurdle. how does everyone else do it?

  418.  #418Brenda on September 8, 2010 at 9:32 am

    Dorothea, Thank you! I’m with ya!

    Lucy, Wow!!! Meaningful synchronicity! Holy hook-up! Did you send him the lyrics to that song? I can’t wait to hear it! I love it!

    For years, I’ve said to men, “My horns hold up my halo!” 🙂

  419.  #419mary on September 8, 2010 at 9:33 am

    yes, it’s probably untrue. my body is really okay. i could be a bit thinner, but only five or ten pounds, so i’m probably fine.

    we’ve been out quite a bit… three or four months… a little at first, then escalating, then every day… a couple of overnighters… (mistake ??? !!!… i don’t know!)

    not sure how to handle this new territory for me. exciting and exploratory. and wonderful! yes! but how to get sexual without exclusivity??? ! i don’t think i want that. i can’t be that casual with my precious jewels…

  420.  #420Nikita on September 8, 2010 at 9:34 am


    I just want to throw up reading those lyrics…..ugh……my post about 377 is my personal winker hottie who I gave certain attributes to……not a halo but very close….and my name means winged victory so please pass the barf bag…..ugh,

    I’m feeling a little triggered I guess……that song is too much….blech!

    There are no coincidences…..blech!
    Everything is ordained according to some schools of thought and/or faith….. I still feel queasy after reading those lyrics!!!!

    But I’m that girl that was tortured by that Titanic song….I won’t even elaborate but we all know the song……ugh….
    Blech, blech, blech!!!!

  421.  #421Brenda on September 8, 2010 at 9:35 am


    Here’s the video of your song, “Just By Being You”:


  422.  #422Lucy on September 8, 2010 at 9:37 am

    Lol, Brenda! Thanks for voting on my question of the day. 🙂 No, I did NOT send him the lyrics!!! And if I ever even HINT that I intend to do so, I hope Sirens will fall out of the sky from around the world to tie my hands together so I cannot do it!!! 🙂

  423.  #423Brenda on September 8, 2010 at 9:37 am

    I love that song! It’s about being real with someone, letting down your defenses. I want to share it with Ryan, if the time is right. Right now it wouldn’t be appropriate.

    Was my feeling message to Ryan over the top?

  424.  #424dorothea on September 8, 2010 at 9:38 am

    holy sugary crap, batwomen, my LI just sent me a love poem. It started out with a couple of cheesy lines, but it developed into this great metaphor and ends with such definitive closure that he loves me.

  425.  #425Brenda on September 8, 2010 at 9:40 am


    Awesome! Will you share it with us?

  426.  #426Brenda on September 8, 2010 at 9:41 am


    Send it! Send it!

    The Queen of Overfucktioning, I mean, Overfunctioning

  427.  #427Lucy on September 8, 2010 at 9:41 am

    Mary, so I would say (if it were me), what I wrote earlier, with an addition, “I feel confused. I don’t want to feel confused about whether or not we are exclusive. I don’t want to have sex outside an exclusive relationship. What do you think?”

    And maybe you could throw in some uplifting good-feeling messages like, “It feels so good being with you” blah blah blah. 🙂

  428.  #428Brenda on September 8, 2010 at 9:41 am


    Send it! Send it!

    The Queen of Overf*cktioning, I mean, Overfunctioning

  429.  #429Nikita on September 8, 2010 at 9:41 am

    Great (fearful sarcasm), now Brenda is going to make it easy for me to torture myself with this song whose lyrics inspire me to barf….sweet.

    Excuse me as I mosey on over to the link barf bag in tow….

  430.  #430dorothea on September 8, 2010 at 9:42 am

    lucy, i can personally promise to duct table your hands and mouth together since you asked so nicely if you ever hint at leaning forw