What To Do When He Says It’s Over

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Here’s a letter from Trista – who’s in a situation I know almost all of us can identify with…and by seeing it from our vantage point outside the situation – it’s so clear to us…and yet, I know that when you’re there, inside the situation – it’s so much harder to get what’s going on:

“Hi Rori,

I recently listened to your interview with Christian Carter, and really connected with everything you said. But now I have a major problem.

A few weeks ago I met a guy, then we had three great dates. The third date he came to my place for dinner, and stayed the night (on a Wednesday). It was fantastic- we really connected!

I am 37 and he is 38. He has a 16y/o son that does not live with him. His son was up staying with him for three weeks (from that prev weekend). I didn’t see anything of him after that – he said he was busy with his son- and they were having issues. So that’s fine – I followed your advice and gave him space. Then he texted me the day his son left to apologize to me that he had been focusing on his son (a Sunday).

We got together the following Saturday night – again he came to mine for dinner. Again he stayed, and it was great. In hindsight I see I initiated things, but other than that nothing to hint at anything wrong. He was very chatty etc. In the morning he left after a cup of tea. We talked some more – everything seemed fine.

I am very into physical touch – and touched him a fair bit – on the back/leg etc, but wouldn’t have thought that would come across as too needy.

Then he texted me that Sunday night to say that its all happening too fast, and that he’s got too much going on. I replied suggesting we slow down and continue to try – but he said “sorry no”.

Is there any hope? If I give him time and space – might he come round – or am I kidding myself? Should I go over to his and try to talk to him? I thought maybe a letter, where I could express my feelings (something I hadn’t really done), and that would give him time and space to digest it.

Please help – I really felt a connection with this guy and am completely devastated.

Thank you, Trista.”

Here’s my answer:

Trista – and all of you who’ve ever found yourself pining after a man like this (I’ve been there many, many times – and that’s how I know what’s going on here…)

Basically – it’s done. He said it’s done, and so it’s done. This is my 4th Rule in my 4 Rules: Learn to take No for an answer.

For next time:

1.Never never, never invite a man over to your house, cook him dinner and sleep with him. Never, never again. Promise me?

2. I know that YOU felt a connection – but if he felt the same connection, he would be on your doorstep right now, and he isn’t.

3. Please get (at least) my ebook – and you’ll understand what went wrong here…this is an “Imaginary Relationship” and an “Imaginary Connection” – all from only YOUR side.

Know this:  It is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to have a connection with a man who does not feel connected to you.

You may feel a longing.

He may trigger your emotions from some past occurrences in your life – he may remind you in some way of your father, your mother, an uncle, a boy you had a crush on long ago, or a movie star you adore.

Just know these feelings are coming from YOU!

They are not about a connection. A connection takes TWO – you AND him. It’s an opening of BOTH hearts, not just YOURS opening and giving out, and him taking in what you give – most likely with his heart not even involved.

A man would have to be STUPID to reject what you were offering here no strings attached. And…as a decent man (he seems to be) he ended it quickly when he realized you wanted more and felt more than he did.

Now – here’s the standard advice everyone (including me) will give you:

Forget about him – go date other men. Circular Date. If he was meant to be…he’d be here.

And yet, I KNOW it’s so much harder to do when it’s you in the middle of it.

So – here’s some help:

The blog will teach you how to Circular Date, and my Targeting Mr. Right program will give you every nut and bolt you need to change your life…

4. Now – I want you to look at this most important thing in your letter: You said –  “Should I go over to his and try to talk to him? I thought maybe a letter, where I could express my feelings (something I hadn’t really done), and that would give him time and space to digest it.”

Can you see what this would be like if you actually did it?

To go over to his house and try to convince him to see you again, or to write a letter to him –  a man you saw only 4 times (the sex doesn’t count in any way…) – feels like you begging. You might as well get down on your hands and knees and plead with him.

This is so beneath you!

You sound like a fabulous woman – and all you need now is to BELIEVE you’re a fabulous woman and get this whole idea of chasing down a man OUT of your head and heart.

I know you can fix this fast. It might feel challenging to hold back with a man until you have some idea of what’s going on, and Circular Dating so that you don’t focus on any one man – but it will WORK!!!

Love, Rori

Posted in


  1.  #1Kimberly on July 18, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    This advice is so spot on, I can’t begin to tell you..

  2.  #2BigLuv on July 18, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    ‘Lo Sirens,

    I really liked Lucy’s visualization of her perfect day with her man. I hear her on struggling to receive more than she expects.

    I write all sorts of lists and affirmations about my perfect relationship but have never posted something like that here. I keep an online diary where I make up entries about how I want to be feeling romantically satisfied even though it hasn’t yet materialized. I have made treasure maps for love. I even tap with EFT to increase my comfort level about receiving the love I deserve.



  3.  #3Tina on July 18, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    Crawling on your hands and knees is beneath me, YO! begging is not attractive. DONT DO IT!

  4.  #4lm on July 18, 2010 at 8:53 pm

    LOVE this post.

  5.  #5Rosalie on July 18, 2010 at 10:35 pm

    Hi Rori & Ladies,

    Could you help me a bit to clarify this line by Rori in the post?

    ->”1.Never never, never invite a man over to your house, cook him dinner and sleep with him. Never, never again. ”

    I suggest that this is to avoid overfunctioning. But isn’t it strict rule? What if a man expects you to do this, and he is disappointed when you don’t invite him over, cook, etc.?

    Why is it damaging if he comes over, etc.?

    I mean I was doing it with my last-term ex boyfriend for years. It was long distance relationship. It was me who broke up. What did I miss then? It worked for him.

  6.  #6Rosalie on July 18, 2010 at 10:44 pm

    Sorry, not “last-term”, but “long-term ex boyfriend” in my prev. post. Oooh, spelling…. 🙁

  7.  #7Judie on July 19, 2010 at 1:37 am

    Dear Rori and all,
    I’m in so much conflict over my most recent relationship I’m making myself sick with feelings I’m unable to manage. It has brought up deep rejection from my childhood as well as constant hopelessness that this man I”ve met who is the most compatible I’ve ever known bring so much emotional turmoil to me.
    It’s been a little over 4 months and in the beginning when i was more of a challenge to him he would leave no stone unturned to be at my house picking me up to go places, even just to dinner. He’d go out of his way, one day even driving 55 miles over and 55 back to be sure I was ready to go back with him that night to spend the night at the beach.It was before we were sexually involved, his ‘Nobel experiment’ where we stayed together in the same bed and allowed our ‘inner children’ to relate.
    He is in sales and I travel with him 3 or 4 days a week, then the weekend is reserved for his grown children and it seems other things..
    He also comes to my house once or twice a week to spend the night and have some quality time with me which does not always include sex.
    I believe he wants this relationship to thrive yet some choices he makes show the opposite
    he recently left his wife of 36 years, and is suffering the huge back lash of his ultra conservative Christian kids, 7 of them, who are angry, sick, sad and otherwise upset that their supposedly prefect dad has strayed off the reservation. he’s gone for good, having had a loveless marriage for years, and two of his children said that was the day he died, it’s that extreme.
    recently he’s been canceling dates with me as in the day he was going to come over but was asked by a friend to help them move. So, I am beginning to come last. I know men do this withdrawing thing, but i don’t know how to manage it without a huge amount of crippling pain.
    Thur we had plans for him to show me his town, his place and cook dinner for me and watch a movie. He canceled again because the owner of the condo where he’s staying for free wants to do some renovation.(They have an investment in trying to get him back with his wife) They asked his schedule and he wouldn’t tell them he had a date with me for Thursday but rather to come on, canceling me.
    I’m clearly feeling like the easily cast off girl, the one who doesn’t matter much, the one who comes last before everyone else in his life.
    I don’t know how to respond to this. I’m lying awake beside him right now wondering what kind of feeling message I can give. How can i be vulnerable, open, loving and yet have my boundaries in place? What can I say which expresses how I’m feeling with out saying ‘because you did x I’m feeling y?”
    he said if he has to choose me over his kids he will, which is not what should be necessary, but they are so sheltered they have no clue how the rest of the world lives. Very sheltered Christian upbringing. Oh, BTW his ‘kids’ are ages 20 to 36!!
    I really need some advice as in the next two days while were’ on this road trip i have to have the talk, self respect demands it.
    Oh, he usually is very careful with seeing that i eat properly when we travel, last night it was an ice cream cone!! CLEARLY not thinking about my well being, not stepping up to the plate and being ‘the man’ yes?
    Thanks everyone!
    Love Judie

  8.  #8Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 3:01 am


    How about:

    “I feel second class in your life. I want to feel first class in a man’s life. What do you think?”


    “I feel sad and angry as I see myself being pushed out of your life. It would feel so good to be in the center of a man’s plans and world. What do you think?”

    My parents divorced after 25 years of marriage. My two brothers refused to attend my father’s remarriage. They said he was in sin and they wouldn’t acknowledge his divorce, saying he was committing adultery.

    I believe there is forgiveness, and there is restoration. I don’t know if this helps, but it is what I wish I could tell his sons and daughters.

  9.  #9Melissa on July 19, 2010 at 4:16 am

    Brenda, have anymore? Please?

  10.  #10Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 7:56 am

    Hi Melissa,

    What is the situation for which you want feeling messages? I have written those two from my head, but there are a whole bunch throughout these blogs, and when I see good ones, I save them in my “Rori Raye” file! I am really not the best role model tho.

    I fell miserably yesterday! I thought I was making all this progress, and then I overfunctioned.

    I was missing Ryan, as usual, and I texted him. Lo and behold, he started to text back. We were actually having two way communication! It felt like a miracle! LOL! So I called him, and he actually picked up! Then, wonder of wonders, we actually started to have a two-way conversation on the status of our friendship.

    As I spoke, all my pent-up frustration of the last 9-10 months surfaced, and I went from sensitive feeling messages to just formulating the words I’ve been needing to discuss with him since last fall! Hhhhhhh! (**deep exhale**)

    He actually told me WHY he isn’t hanging out with me, that his negative symptoms of schizophrenia come to the surface when he is interacting with me. He said he just can’t handle any level of stress, because he has so much going on on the inside at any given time.

    I felt like we were really getting somewhere, and I felt so happy and relieved! I assured him that if he chose to hang out with me, I would keep it positive and happy and carefree. I started to explain that I just needed to explain it in THIS conversation just to clear the air after so many months. I was in the depths of an emotional explanation of my feelings of friendship for him while holding back my feelings of love because of his condition, when I realized I was talking to dead air.

    He hung up on me. 🙁 Ugh. How childish. And, no, it wasn’t a dropped call, because he never called me back or texted me.

    So for instructional purposes, can one of you lovely Sirens please tell me, for future reference, how do you deal with it when a sissy boy, I mean, a high feminine energy, immature boy-man, hangs up on you in the middle of the most meaningful conversation you’ve had in 9 months?

    Do you do anything at all? If not, how on earth do you manage your feelings of frustration, exasperation, rejection, abandonment, and irritation to NOT contact him?

    I really want to know so I can break out of old patterns. I admit with some embarrassment as well as vulnerability (for fear of getting my head chopped off) that I did text him back, and more than once.

    But how should I have or could I have handled it?

  11.  #11Rori Raye on July 19, 2010 at 9:29 am

    Kimberly, Welcome, and Thank you for the comment…Love, Rori

  12.  #12dorothea on July 19, 2010 at 9:40 am

    You do nothing
    You hug yourself and forget about Ryan.

    What do you think?

  13.  #13Tina on July 19, 2010 at 9:59 am

    Oh god what a weekend! the only tool that I could use was , i dont know if its a tool- I vote for myself!. women galore, even trying to “pick up” in front of me holycrap! busy weekend. I did practice my Goddess Warrior Woman walk every time, I had to step out and “do” something. I noticed truckman using a lot of feminine energy and me using masculine energy to make sales, I balanced it out by using feeling messages when I could. He gave me a lot of directions, I felt pissed off and said NO, I dont feel like it! and go sit down. I had a fun weekend , meet lots of people and made some cash, I even got some orders weeeeeeeeee!

  14.  #14Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 10:02 am


    Thanks, I know that’s right. My problem is I am such a soup of emotions surrounding him it is like the oil leak under the ocean. I can barely contain it.

    Now I need to do damage control, cuz I texted him too much yesterday. Should I text to apologize for overdoing it?

  15.  #15dorothea on July 19, 2010 at 10:14 am



    NO NO NO


    do this differently than you feel compelled to. this is going to feel uncomfortable to do nothing at all, and that's very good. that means you are in the process of shifting. it means you are doing something right.

    rori's tools work fast, give this one a shot and see how you feel in a few weeks.

    you've attempted to find closure with this guy a couple-few times now, and it's not happening how you want it to. rori says don't seek closure. you are too goddessy for closure.

    you just vent and riff here instead. we'll get through this together.

  16.  #16Gigi on July 19, 2010 at 10:21 am

    Brenda, if it was me I would not text Ryan. He has told you and shown you many times that for whatever reason (schizophrenia or not) he is not interested. No matter what conversation you have with him, you will not be completely satisfied, because ultimately you want more than he does.

    And, you may have said you’d be just fine with whatever little bit he could give you and you wouldn’t pressure him…yet would that truly make you happy? I think you’d still be hoping and loving him since that is what you’ve been doing. I completely understand as I find it hard to break off from someone when there are things there that I really liked.

    Just curious, I know a couple other sirens mentioned this e-book, The Unavailable Guy and The Fall Back Girl. I recently read it. It may be a helpful read for you too! 🙂

    Sending you hugs and good thoughts as you work with this latest development with Ryan. I’d put my focus on the other guys out there – your cd’s or potential cd’s. You deserve so much more!! All of us sirens do!

  17.  #17Tina on July 19, 2010 at 10:21 am

    My “husband” was there too, haha with his “girlfriend” I did my Warrior Woman Goddess” walk right past them. My “mother in law” came to where we were at and I felt comfortable with her, she still loves me 🙂

  18.  #18Tina on July 19, 2010 at 10:29 am

    Actually now that I think* about it, giving a lot instructions is masculine energy. I felt masculine in my feminine? lol I sat on the grass at one point and a man was very concerned about the ants, I was wearing a sundress. He gave me a bottle of water, cause he said I looked hot well he gave me two botttels.

  19.  #19Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 10:45 am

    I appreciate your feedback. The thing is I have caused a lot of damage if there is ever to be a friendship again. I want him to know that I am aware that I overfunctioned. I just feel frustrated that he hung up on me.

    If he had said, “Excuse me for interrupting you, Brenda, but I just can’t handle this. I need to hang up.” I would have felt half okay about it.

    I just need to say SOMETHING for damage control.

  20.  #20Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 10:50 am


    I appreciate your encouragement. I googled the book. Looks good. I just don’t have the time or money for anything more like that right now.

    I messed up a lot more than I have told you guys. I am too embarrassed to tell all. I need to do damage control. Any ideas what to say? Something to the effect of I know I overfunctioned again. My friend, Franny, who knows me well since the 80s, said this:

    “Communications like what you are sending to Ryan would make me furious. I want someone who will wait for me if he was convinced that I really loved him. I would want a man to hear what I am saying and give me the space I needed until I felt ready to move closer to him. He has said, “Not Now”, and you are disrespectfully ignoring him. For all you know, he may be thinking, “Well if she won’t respect me now, what would it be like if we were married?”

    You keep going back to trying to manipulate him into having more contact with you.

  21.  #21dorothea on July 19, 2010 at 11:01 am

    brenda, noooooo

    where is rori?!?!? roriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!

  22.  #22dorothea on July 19, 2010 at 11:05 am

    the way you do damage control is by controlling the potential to do more damage by doing NOTHING.

  23.  #23Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 11:08 am


    I like that: where is rori?!?!? roriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!

    Like telling the teacher that one of her students is misbehaving! LOL! I messed up really bad. I want to let him know I understand. Doesn’t he need to understand? I don’t like what I saw in myself at all: manipulative. I don’t want to be manipulative. I don’t want to overfunction. It’s self-sabotaging. I don’t want to self-sabotage.

  24.  #24lm on July 19, 2010 at 11:08 am


    seriously, girl, take the batteries out of your phone or turn off your cell and put it on top of your fridge and go for a walk or to the movies. you have to just ride out these cravings for contact. it’s like an itch, but the more you scratch it, the worse the damage is.

  25.  #25Tina on July 19, 2010 at 11:09 am

    Brenda, your DOING crawling back on your hands and knees.

  26.  #26Tina on July 19, 2010 at 11:13 am

    I had to crawl away on my hands and knees to get away from my “huband” to save my life and what was left of my self esteem, funny thing is, I walked like a Goddess WArrior Woman right pass him and his ‘girlfriend”

  27.  #27Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 11:15 am

    Yeah, I hear you all. I still feel a need for damage control. I still am afraid to tell you guys all for fear of getting my head ripped off.

  28.  #28Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 11:15 am

    I appreciate your input and there is safety in a multitude of counsel. I am thinking and feeling about it.

  29.  #29dorothea on July 19, 2010 at 11:19 am

    brenda i wish we lived in the same city. i feel so protective of you and I want to kidnap you for lunch and confiscate your cell phone for the duration and get your mind off of whatshisbutt

  30.  #30Apple Jacks on July 19, 2010 at 11:19 am

    Popping in. I didn’t read the post yet but I want to say to Brenda Dorothea’s calling for Rori, I feel is not at all an act of calling the teacher for a misbehaving student, but more of a crying out for the life gard when she sees one of her sisters and playmates sinking deeper and deeper into the depths of the waves and struggling to make it to shore.

  31.  #31dorothea on July 19, 2010 at 11:22 am

    well damn, my jeans just ripped along my butt cheek and i am wearing a thong, damnit!

  32.  #32Apple Jacks on July 19, 2010 at 11:23 am

    ^ Lol @ Dorothea. Denim thongs. I can feel the roughness.

  33.  #33Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 11:26 am

    Thank you so much. I feel cared for. I am a total soup of emotions. I can’t concentrate on my job right now. I don’t know. I did fall on my knees Apple Jacks and then I journaled. I feel confused.

  34.  #34Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 11:27 am

    Thanks for feeling protective of me, Dorothea. Could we smoke peace pipe together? 🙂 In Tijuana?

  35.  #35Apple Jacks on July 19, 2010 at 11:30 am

    Good you feel confused. I love your confusion and hope you will too.

  36.  #36Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 11:31 am

    My friend, Franny, suggests that I let HER forward our emails about this same issue to Ryan so he can see that I feel bad and am trying to correct my shortcomings. She wrote me a really strong email about how furious she would be if I had written a bunch of texts to her if she were in Ryan’s position.

    How do you feel about that? Then I wouldn’t be contacting him but he would get the email that I am doing my best and trying to change.

  37.  #37lm on July 19, 2010 at 11:32 am

    yeah, this is messy. but you will feel better and clearer once you really get limp, feel the feelings and do nothing.

  38.  #38Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 11:32 am

    Why love confusion?

    Confucious say short man dance with tall lady get bust in face.

  39.  #39Lizzie on July 19, 2010 at 11:33 am

    Brenda – STOP!
    wholly molly girl – do not do anything with Ryan. Do a Tina and just be a goddess Warrior Woman and walk on past. It is OVER. Do not call, do not text (print out your last text, rip it to shreds and burn it), do not email (print out your email and rip it to shreds and burn it), do not send carrier pigeons (shoot the pigeon), take his name and phone number, address, text number and press the DELETE!!! DO IT NOW! my goodness girl do we all have to descend upon you, fill you with frozen yogurt to have brain freeze so that when you thaw out, you will have a new sense of wonderful self?! Ha, I am coming over…..

  40.  #40Apple Jacks on July 19, 2010 at 11:34 am

    Brenda, may I ask you why you need HIM to know that you are trying to change? Are you trying to change for him? It’s not as if you’re the only one who needs to change, he does too. Why is it not enought for YOU to know that you’re in your process? I just feel lovingly curious.

  41.  #41Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 11:34 am

    I reread Rori’s blog. The thing is, I’ve already begged on my hands and knees. So what the hell? Now all I’m trying to do is damage control.

  42.  #42dorothea on July 19, 2010 at 11:35 am

    nooo leave your friend out of it.

    no contact
    no contact
    no contact

    definition of insanity, etc…

  43.  #43Apple Jacks on July 19, 2010 at 11:35 am

    Oh, and because this whole process of being a siren is to love all of your feelings, including confusion.

  44.  #44Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 11:35 am


    You are seriously funny!!!!!! Thank you, I needed humor at this moment! LOL!

  45.  #45Lizzie on July 19, 2010 at 11:35 am

    dorothea – you totally sexy siren!!

  46.  #46Gigi on July 19, 2010 at 11:38 am


    You are getting great counsel from everyone here. That feeling about wanting to do “damage control” can be a panicky feeling where you want to reconnect. The best would be to get out your feelings here, in a journal, etc. Using Rori’s methods of feeling the feelings and moving through them. Then try to refocus elsewhere.

    You obviously have felt very strong feelings with Ryan. And, you grew and learned lots with him. There are other lessons to learn with other men. Put him on your horse and keep riding!

    We all make mistakes. Forgive yourself. That’s what is important here. You are the one to take care of and see how special you are rather than looking at how special Ryan is. You are the special one. Focus on you.

  47.  #47Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 11:39 am

    Apple Jacks, you said, “why you need HIM to know that you are trying to change? Are you trying to change for him? It’s not as if you’re the only one who needs to change, he does too.”

    Because I want him to know if he contacts me again in the future, I am aware of my shortcomings and will try to not do it again. I am trying to right my wrongs. I am responsible for my actions, not his. Yes, he needs to change, too, but I can only change me. And I am trying to make a step toward that end.

  48.  #48Apple Jacks on July 19, 2010 at 11:39 am

    ^ Gigi said: ” You are the one to take care of and see how special you are rather than looking at how special Ryan is. You are the special one. Focus on you.”

    Here here.

  49.  #49Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 11:40 am


    Thanks for being so gentle when I have messed up so badly. Do you mean kick him off my horse and keep riding?

  50.  #50Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 11:41 am

    You Sirens are wonderful. Thank you for all your support.

  51.  #51lm on July 19, 2010 at 11:43 am

    DON’T DO IT!

    feel the panic and need to control things, breathe through the feelings, then DON’T TEXT OR TALK TO YOUR FRIEND about fwding emails!! then go to your channeling list, the one you were writing last week. pick the thing you can do RIGHT NOW and do it. this will pass and you’ll be happy you left it at this.

  52.  #52Lizzie on July 19, 2010 at 11:43 am

    Brenda – thanks….
    No contact, no contact, no contact….get off your hands and knees. It hurts being on hands and knees. not good, no no no…up you go warrier princess…pick-it up girl. Didn’t you have a lovely date last night? what happened? Where is Dan the Man? sweetie in the next office? better men are out there – here is what we all don’t need:
    sick men
    emotionally unavailable men
    abusive men
    player men
    ugly personality men
    sick men
    gay men (unless for shopping and cooking)
    sick men
    abusive men
    sick men
    abusive men
    men who need drugs to pretend they are normal
    men who need drugs to pretend they are not normal
    men who need alcohol for anything
    men who collect hammers and other dangerous wepons
    men who think dangerous wepons are cool
    men who want to inflict pain on a woman
    men who stupidly think it is a good idea to inflict pain
    men who have no idea they inflict pain

    got it – I want someone fun to play with.

  53.  #53Apple Jacks on July 19, 2010 at 11:45 am

    Brenda, as long as you are in your process for change and working on yourself that is all that counts! Of course you can only control yourself. But constantly telling him is like, “hey look. I’m making these changes and I want you to see it so you’ll like me.” This is how I feel about this. One big step in making the change you’re talking about would be to not tell him one darn thing. Are you changing yourself for him? Because unless you change for you, it will not take hold. I’m not ragging you my friend, I’m just trying to get you to process here with us rather then destructively exploding where your pieces won’t matter anywhere else.

  54.  #54Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 11:46 am


    I got a kick out of this one: “gay men (unless for shopping and cooking)” LOL!

  55.  #55Lizzie on July 19, 2010 at 11:47 am

    yes, YES! kick him off your horse! indeed! Warrier princess on such a great stalion! Off with his head!! OH Ok wrong story – be Queen of Hearts! Off with his head!! Ride the pink flamingo – OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!

    Oh this is fun!
    Ok back to work now…

  56.  #56Apple Jacks on July 19, 2010 at 11:48 am

    Lizzie, love your post on the men we need and don’t need. Brilliant!

  57.  #57Gigi on July 19, 2010 at 11:51 am


    No matter how much we feel like we have messed up, kindness is needed. You already feel the pain. Why beat yourself up?

    There is a part of you that longs for Ryan, or at least you feel like you do. The longing is real, however someone else would be better to fill it. And, number one that is you.

    And, by stepping back the way everyone is suggesting in not doing anymore towards Ryan, stop and take care of you. Think of you as the little girl who needs the grown up Brenda to take care of her.

    As far as the horse, I do like your idea of knocking Ryan off, yet I believe Rori says something (and someone else can maybe quote here) that you don’t have to have closure with a man, to just put him on the back of your horse and move forward.

    I think that helps that relationships don’t need to be “completed” in the sense of saying everything you feel needs to be said or heard. He doesn’t want to talk with you and you have over functioned. Basically that is the end of the story at this point. Put him on your horse so you don’t have to have “closure” and put the focus elsewhere on your journey.

    Treat yourself with gentleness and kindness. Yes, even when we act in a way that we wish we hadn’t. Be sweet to yourself, big hug and move on. 🙂

  58.  #58Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 11:56 am

    I forwarded Franny Lizzie’s funny comments in #39, “Brenda – STOP! wholly molly girl – etc.” I’d like to share Franny’s response:

    “I agree with everything she said, I would just add…make sure he knows you understand via my email, and keep praying…not for you to have him, but just for him to be free. If you stop now without clarifying that you finally get where he is coming from, he will go on thinking that eventually you’ll start up again. This will solidify the fact that he has reached you. Then when he feels he can breathe again, he may contact you. I pray that he won’t do so until YOU are good and ready to deal with him….good and strong in heart…full of God’s wisdom…and full of the knowledge of how beautiful you are to God.”

    I sincerely appreciate your input, and I know it is debatable, but I have decided to let Franny email Ryan. The two of them have talked on the phone before, and Franny knows my relationship with him inside and out. I trust her judgment. I am not saying I don’t trust all of yours. I really mean it that I highly, highly value the strength of a group of advisors. I guess the consequences, either way, are mine, so the decision is finally mine.

    I hope you will still feel free and open to giving me your feedback in the future, because I really do learn from each of you!

    If he were to see that you finally understand, it will make you more accountable in refraining from “crazy text mode”.

  59.  #59Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 11:57 am

    Oh, I meant to incorporate that last comment. Franny said that in a separate email.

  60.  #60lm on July 19, 2010 at 11:58 am

    Perfect, Gigi!

    And yes, don’t knock him off your horse! keep him on and keep on going…

    My verbally abusive, self-centered ex is still on mine, urging me to love myself and learn to take care of myself, and the guy before that is still there too, reminding me not to wait…i left him after 8 years with no real plans to marry or travel or do any of the things i wanted.

  61.  #61dorothea on July 19, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    i feel awful about your choice.
    i still love u, of course.

    i just don’t feel good seeing you on your hands and knees doing the same thing this post explicitly states not to do.

    i am not mad. ok! i loves u!

  62.  #62Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 12:02 pm


    This is very accurate: “feel the panic and need to control things.” That is definitely what SPURRED me on to text him in crazy text mode. I will work now on letting go and all the other wonderful, supportive things you ladies have shared with me. Thank you again!

  63.  #63Gigi on July 19, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    Thanks, lm!

    And, good for you for putting those two guys from your past on your horse and moving on to the things that you have wanted! That’s not easy, but so necessary!

  64.  #64Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    If I hadn’t ALREADY been on my hands and knees, I wouldn’t have. But at this point, if you knew the full text tidal wave, you may agree that one more contact, NOT from me, is not going to do any more damage. When you’re on the ocean floor, the only direction you CAN go is up.

  65.  #65Apple Jacks on July 19, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    I have to echo dorothea’s sentiments. In the end we can only give one another our feelings of the situation, but in the end the decision is always our own. Wow, I spent way too long online. Got so much to do! Mommy….!

  66.  #66Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    Thanks Apple Jacks! Sorry this held you up from all you need to do.

  67.  #67Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    Here is what Franny sent to Ryan:

    Franny: For damage control, I would PRAY WITHOUT CEASING for him to be filled with the knowledge of God’s love for him. PUT him in GOD’S hands and leave him safely there. That’s what I would do. He needs to understand that you understand.


    Hi Franny,

    Thank you! I know you’re right. I appreciate you harshing on me! I need that! I know half-baked cupcakes don’t taste very good, and I am taking him out of God’s oven prematurely. I am working on my obsessive stuff. Sometimes my personal pain is too great to handle and too big to see beyond. But when I read your words, I know you’re right. I just get stuck in a rut, and it is so hard to change behavior patterns. It is also so, so hard to sit on such a pile of intense emotions and just bottle them up. I bottled them up for the most part for the last 10 months. Yesterday just as I was feeling I was really connecting with Ryan, he hung up on me. I felt sharply disappointed.

    What should I do for damage control?

    I love you, too! Thank you for working with me and not judging me.





    Regarding your texts to Ryan – If a man that I didn’t want to be with right now, for whatever reason, said the things to me that you are saying/texting to Ryan, I would want to jump out of my skin from the anger and frustration that these words would cause me to feel. (I sent her all the texts, which I typed out)

    Again—I understand that I may not be understanding your heart, but to me it seems as if between the lines, your words are saying:

    “Ryan I love you and I want you in my life even if it’s just as a friend. I am rejecting your desire to keep me out of your life for the time being. You hung up or the call was disconnected or whatever…but even though you have indicated to me that you need to be apart from me, I am ignoring your desires and insisting that you do it MY way. I want to be in your life, I want to have a friendship with you where I can see you and hear your voice….even though you don’t want that right now. I don’t care about what you want right now. I want things my way. I am telling you over and over about how much Jes*s loves you, yet I am not illustrating His love for you, because love, as He defines it, is patient, kind, never keeps a record of wrongs…and I am not patiently waiting for you to come back into my life; and I am being unkind by not caring that I am refusing to honor your wishes for space; and I keep telling you how much you are hurting me, when I keep hurting you by not respecting your requests…”

    You say you believe that he loves you. Then take your earthly hands off until he is ready to return your love and put him in God’s hands.

    Maybe this is why I’m not married, Brenda, but communications like what you are sending to Ryan would make me furious. I want someone who will wait for me if he was convinces that I really loved him. I would want a man to hear what I am saying and give me the space I needed until I felt ready to move closer to him. He has said, “Not Now”, and you are disrespectfully ignoring him. For all you know, he may be thinking, “Well if she won’t respect me now, what would it be like if we were married?”

    You said that the Lord has given me powerful allegories to illustrate how difficult this is for Ryan. You said I have helped you so much to understand him, yet you keep going back to trying to manipulate him into having more contact with you.

    I’m guessing that after you read this you will feel that I’m not being compassionate, or that I’m being hard on you…just remember the Scripture, “Faithful are the wounds of a friend.” If you would please just try to leave him alone, yet pray without ceasing for God to deliver him and help him to understand the depth of His love for him…that the understanding of the love of God would fill him with such a power that the demons would finally flee…you would be loving him in the most perfect way. PUT HIM IN GOD’S HANDS. Are you able to say that you want his freedom and happiness in his life, even if that didn’t include you? If you can’t say that, then you don’t really love him. If you can’t give him over completely to God, then it’s nothing more than earthly lust. LOVE him. Brenda. Give Ryan to God and TRUST.

    Although my harshness may appear as if I don’t, please know that I love you.

  68.  #68Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    I’m in process.

    Baby steps.

  69.  #69Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    For what it’s worth, I am still having to face all the discomfort feelings, because everything in me STILL wants to contact him. It was a big step just for me to let Franny handle it, and let go.

  70.  #70Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    So NOW I will work on getting off my hands and knees.

  71.  #71Tina on July 19, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    im putting some men on my horse tonight. Im going out to a dinner.

  72.  #72dorothea on July 19, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    yay get up off them hands and knees, girl.

  73.  #73Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 12:49 pm


    In answer to your question about other men, I didn’t have a date last night. I went to a meeting where it was a good place to meet men. I didn’t meet any singles, but it is a good place nonetheless.

    Green Man and I talked on the phone 1.5 hrs. He is the man who was talking about me bringing the picnic. Today he sent a group email to a $40 event in Washington DC. Inotherwords, he didn’t invite me personally, and he is not offering to pay. I am thinking of ignoring it. Any thoughts?

    Greek is the Match.com man who lives in MA. I gave him a feeling message about talking instead of emailing. He said he is having phone difficulties, whatever that means.

    Bill is out of the office today.

    So here I am, with my Siren friends, processing on Siren Island. When I should be working.

  74.  #74Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    I’m afraid if I keep Ryan on my horse, he’ll turn into a headless horseman. No, seriously, I tend to relate to him too much in fantasy form. I think it would be better to just let go of him now.

  75.  #75lm on July 19, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    brenda, i think what Franny wrote is important:

    “I would PRAY WITHOUT CEASING for him to be filled with the knowledge of God’s love for him.”

    But…what about God’s love for you, your love for you?

    Sit on those hands, girl!

    you’ll feel better tomorrow. i promise!! things get so much mellower and clearer. i was so obsessed with my (cyber) cheating, angry, lying ex that my 2 year old nephew called me ‘phone’ instead of my first name because i never put my blackberry down lest he send me a pin or an email.

  76.  #76Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    My belly is feeling huge. I am not sure why, because I have not been doing THAT badly with my eating. Last night I was out at a restaurant, and I was seated at an unusually narrow booth. I literally had to squeeze my gut in. Just as I did, I saw a customer across the room blatantly staring at me.

    I held up a paper to give him a clue, and he just kept right on staring without missing a moment. I swore at him and switched sides. I felt so self-conscious, and so angry, both at him and at myself, for being overweight. It wasn’t a very good self-esteem booster to be stared at when I was in an embarrassing moment.

  77.  #77Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 12:55 pm


    I am basking in God’s Love, and I am being unusually compassionate with myself. Normally in a case like this, you’d hear me calling myself all sorts of names. I’d be totally kicking myself, but I am not. I feel bad. I am sinking in my bad feelings. I feel good about how well I am loving myself. Thank you!

  78.  #78lm on July 19, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    brenda, yay!

  79.  #79dorothea on July 19, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    aw brenda i LOVE your goddessy round belly. send it some love! i am sending mine love too. i imagine sometimes that i am pregnant with love for myself and run my hands over my belly as if i were actually pregnant.

  80.  #80Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 12:59 pm


    You are sweet.

  81.  #81Simply Shannon on July 19, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    Brenda, I liked what Franny said about leaving it to God. You are helping Ryan by NOT contacting him. He said talking is making his negative issues come up. So if I’m “helping” him and wanting to lessen the negative issues, I would do the opposite, which is not talking to him.

    I know this feels impossible, to stop contact. Nothing I have ever said to a man, or anyone for that matter, is going to magically fix that person or our relationship. If I trust God, then I trust God will put the right people in my life and the right words in my mouth at the right time. If I am already on my knees, I pray that *I* have the courage to listen to God and trust what he says and what he is already doing on my behalf.

    (((HUGS))) I wish we could all protect each other from the nasty voices. I would take up arms against those thoughts raging through your brain right now.

  82.  #82Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    I guess what I’m seeing is I am NOT attached to the outcome of these new dates, and so I am following the tools with some success and feeling good about circular dating.

    But I am totally attached to Ryan. He was a part of my life, and he understood me better than anyone. I realize I lose all objectivity with him. I start out with feeling messages and then I just gush from the heart. I thought I was ready, but I guess not.

    I will copy Lizzie’s list of men types and keep that forefront in my mind. I feel more at peace now.

  83.  #83Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 1:02 pm


    Thank you!

  84.  #84dorothea on July 19, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Brenda, it might also be sweet, but i am being REAL. there’s nothing wrong with you. you are lovely. and if you lose weight you will still be lovely.

    there is a hypnosis on youtube i’ve been listening to that has actually assisted me in maintaining will power. I haven’t exceeded 1000 calories daily since starting to listen to this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce19yiGZXGM

  85.  #85Simply Shannon on July 19, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Oh no! I’m sorry about the guy at the restaurant. Let’s change that channel shall we.

    Behind the table in which you were seated was this man’s wife who was having dinner with a gorgeous hunk. He never even noticed that you were having difficulty with the table. He didn’t even see the paper you held up. He was fuming mad because his wife was with another man. He was staring at her, not you.

    How does that feel?

  86.  #86Simply Shannon on July 19, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    And don’t allow the nasty voices to convince you he was staring at you. He wasn’t. I like this movie much better than the original version. Agreed? 🙂

  87.  #87Lucy on July 19, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    I need to catch up on this thread, but just wanted to say that I liked Rori’s letter about warrior women. Anyone know where the post she mentioned — from Justin — is? Thanks.

    TN man used to call me “little warrior of love” — that felt good. I miss him.

  88.  #88dorothea on July 19, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Lucy, I’m feeling curious whatever happened to TN man. I hope you’ll share!

  89.  #89Lucy on July 19, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    Dorothea, I just basically told him I would feel an icky, sad, “left out” feeling doing a threesome with him and his gf and that I felt kinda afraid telling him that because I didn’t want to lose his friendship (my word).

    He responded with something like, “No worries. I won’t reject you, [affectionate name he has for me].”

    Since then, we’ve texted/emailed a tiny bit about general stuff. Last I knew, he was still with his gf. I’m not holding my breath for him to want me at this point, but I do miss him and have yet to find another man who both excites me and makes me feel safe.

  90.  #90Rosalie on July 19, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    I feel sad that nobody has helped me out 🙁

  91.  #91Siena on July 19, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    ack! I’m feeling blah!

    #1CD spent the weekend with his kids, and didn’t call. This morning, I thought maybe he’d check in to say hello, but he hasn’t.

    It’s the dreaded 3-month mark of dating him, which is the time when most of my dates drop off the face of the earth.

    So I’m coming here to post in order to get some support (because you Sirens are so supportive) and to also distract myself so I can stop the NVs.

    But I miss him! (He said he missed me on Fri too.)

    I’m trying to keep my vibe unattached, leaned back and “open and available” so as not to get ahead of myself or commit myself (in my brain or body) to #1CD before he commits to me.

    And I don’t want my thoughts to go to the doom and gloom of the 3-month mark so that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

    So I choose, “#1CD is in his cave. Stressed about things that have nothing to do with me. I can believe that he is not bored with me or us, and that he is missing me even now, and figuring out a way to fit our lives together. He can’t wait to get in contact with me and to demonstrate how much he cares.”

    That feels much better than what the NVs are telling me!

  92.  #92Siena on July 19, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    Hi Rosalie,

    Regarding inviting a man to your house, cooking him dinner, and then him staying overnight…

    There’s nothing wrong with it per-se, but it won’t generally get me the type of relationship I want if I’m a feminine energy woman.

    Here’s why: Masculine energy men can only fall in love when they are giving, not when they are receiving.

    So inviting him is giving.
    Cooking is giving.
    (and who knows what the sex is like, but if I’m inviting him over and cooking, one can assume that he is not the giving partner in bed either).

    Does that help?

  93.  #93Siena on July 19, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    …oh, and I can hear the unasked questions… yes, I’m still CDing. But the online spring has dried up for now. I went online today so that people could see that I’ve been on within 24 hours – sometimes that generates more emails.

    And I keep repeating, “I am open and available” so that God knows that He can send any man he wants into my life and I will receive him…

  94.  #94Lucy on July 19, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    Brenda, I just caught up reading and I feel so bad for your current struggle. Please let us know how you are doing as time goes on. Love you!!!!

  95.  #95Nikita on July 19, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    I would feel trapped being invited over, cooked for, and then “serviced”. I guess it would feel good-but only for the moment. After I’d see it as a NASCAR pit-stop; a place to check the air pressure and fill up the the gas tank and be ON MY WAY towin the race……it reeks of “good ole’ reliable”.

  96.  #96dorothea on July 19, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    i feel very anxious. it is pms related. i go through this every month. it’s always like this, but when i go back to feeling normal i almost forget entirely how bad i feel once a month emotionally. i feel really really scared and worried about handling my emotions over the next week. i am going to be in a lot of extremely triggering situations and i feel like i become helpless emotionally and all over the place around this time of the month.

    i feel triggered just admitting all this but if anyone else has experience with this sort of thing and can offer any advice or ideas, i would really appreciate it. Hormonal contraception does not work well for me for this issue. I tried it for two years.

  97.  #97lm on July 19, 2010 at 3:59 pm


    i’ve noticed that omega 3 pills have totally helped with my pms!!! i don’t even really get cramps anymore and they used to be a real problem. AND i’m generally much more emotionally stable.

  98.  #98lm on July 19, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    they’re good for the emotional and physical aspects of ‘that time of the month’.

  99.  #99Denise on July 19, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    @Judie, I’m sorry to hear about the emotional turmoil you’re in. It sounds like you have some things in your past that might need addressing, perhaps even before you can be in a healthy romantic relationship? Not sure, only you would know that.

    A couple of comments, and I had to learn this the hard way:

    Do NOT dated married men. Period. No excuses (I’m separated, I don’t love her, we don’t have sex, I’m leaving her when the kids get older, I moved out of the house and we’re getting divorced), no reasons–just don’t do it. Best advice I ever got. I’ll go even further to say not to date a man who is recently out of a divorce.

    Four months is not that long of time. I know it feels like it, you’ve experienced what seems like a lot of things…but you two are just starting to get to know each other. You are at the stage, in my opinion, of deciding if he can be a good friend to you, if you have similar beliefs and values and if he is worthy of your love, attention and energy. In my experience, many relationships end at 6 months or sooner…

    I think it’s very common for women to jump through steps of courtship, going right from sexual attraction to commitment. There’s no patience–there’s no CHALLENGE for the man. So the women get so emotionally involved so quickly, they miss a lot of ‘signs’…now they are emotionally involved and the man starts flaking, or his true colors come out. The woman stays because she doesn’t want to hurt, hopes he changes, yadda, yadda, yadda. What happens? She’s devasted. Then she does the same thing with the next man that comes along–and on an on it goes.

    YOU are the PRIZE. He needs to win YOU. If he isn’t motivated to do that, then he just weeded himself out. That goes from 1 month in, to 6 months in to 10 years in. This is state of mind and attitude.

  100.  #100Nikita on July 19, 2010 at 5:08 pm


    My standing Monday date with myself is beginning 🙂

    Same thing; watching the Bachelorette and studying cd’ing from a somewhat objective perspective. Fun, Fun, Fun!

  101.  #101Siena on July 19, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    “What happens? She’s devasted. Then she does the same thing with the next man that comes along–and on an on it goes.”

    This is what Rori’s tools are for, so that no woman ever has to be devastated again by a man’s behavior. She’s strong on the inside, soft on the outside and takes care of herself regardless of how the man is behaving.

  102.  #102Buttery on July 19, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    Hi Sirens, I have kind of a dumb question:

    I’m excited because I just took my road test and finally got my drivers license (I’m mid-30’s). Would texting a boyfriend “hey, I just passed my driving test!” be considered leaning forward?

    Especially considering that we’re hardly in contact during the week – he sends me one text and calls me once or twice during the week. I don’t initiate contact. We’ve been dating for two months and have been taking things slowly, seeing each other on the weekends, but he seems to be getting serious.

    Anyways, he was aware that I was taking driving lessons, but e never really talked much about it and he never offered to help me practice. I think he likes driving 25 miles into town to pick me up for our dates.

    It might seem weird that at my age I still didn’t know how to drive a car …I live in an area with good public transit and I’ve never really had anyone to teach me.

    Sigh…but learning to drive seems like a cakewalk compared to learning how to date and be in relationships.

  103.  #103Denise on July 19, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    Yes, exactly Siena. However, we have a strong observing ego to step outsides ourselves to honestly see what’s going on, all the tools in the world aren’t going to help. This stuff has to be understood and be internalized. There is a rhythm to courtship and patience must be practiced to let things develop, to let the man PURSUE the PRIZE, which is the woman–this is what Rori talks about.

    I have been lucky enough with Rori’s materials as a big part of my growth to truly the be the confident woman, the prize, a man must win. And if he doesn’t step up to the plate, from the FIRST DATE, then I don’t waste my time. I have faith that the universe will bring me the man that’s perfect for me (not perfect, but perfect for me). And if not, I have an awesome, exciting, fun life regardless.

    Choose wisely.

  104.  #104Siena on July 19, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    Buttery, it is leaning forward, but it all depends on your vibe. It sounds like you would be texting him to share your excitement. If you can do it without expecting a response, I say go for it!

    But I would use a feeling message, “I feel excited! Shivers running thru my body! I passed the driving test!”

  105.  #105Denise on July 19, 2010 at 6:49 pm

    Buttery, congratulations, that’s awesome! That took a lot of courage, something for you to be proud of.

    I think it would be okay to share this good news/accomplishment of yours. I would look at it as a ‘test’. How does he react? Is he responsive and congratulatory? Does he ignore you or is he not supportive? Is he dismissive? Does he downplay it and then talk about some accomplishment of his own? You’ll be able to find out a lot about this man in this one thing, and early on too so you know whether to continue to invest time, energy and effort.

    My two cents!

  106.  #106Siena on July 19, 2010 at 6:49 pm


    “There is a rhythm to courtship and patience must be practiced to let things develop, to let the man PURSUE the PRIZE, which is the woman–this is what Rori talks about.”

    I totally agree! I was contemplating that this weekend, looking at some sunflowers. They started from a very small seed and are now big and glorious – it didn’t happen overnight.


  107.  #107Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 6:56 pm


    Thanks for the video…I’ll try it!


    I appreciate you trying to alter the restaurant scene, but he was one of those creepy old geezers who rapes you with his eyes, and his eyes locked with mine. It was unmistakeable. But I felt better after I swore at him and switched sides of the table so he couldn’t see me. Ha!

  108.  #108Daria on July 19, 2010 at 6:59 pm

    I don’t want a man who isn’t 100% down for me, and wants to do everything to please me, even eat raw guts!

  109.  #109Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 7:00 pm


    RE: #5 – Cooking for a Man

    We had a pretty recent string, within the last two or three weeks where we went in depth about this. I don’t have time to look for it, but there were a lot of posts from me about cooking for Ryan. Basically, the idea is the man takes care of the woman and gives to the woman, not the other way around.

  110.  #110Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 7:05 pm


    Here are things I picked up at the health food store for PMS:

    Chasteberry Extract
    PMS with Vitamin B6 & 5-HTP

  111.  #111Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 7:17 pm


    Thanks for your support! I love you, too!

    Ryan rarely checks his emails, so I simply texted him this:

    “I am very sorry I overfunctioned again. I feel bad. Franny sent you an important email with my permission. Will you please forgive me?”

    After me sending him a slew of texts with no response between yesterday afternoon and this morning, I felt very surprised when he texted me straight back:

    “Yes. I can’t talk right now. My battery died while we were talking.”

    I really don’t believe him, but it still felt good that he finally responded. And that he forgave me. He knows it’s a big issue with me, and we’ve discussed it more than once in the past. We at least used to have an agreement that we’d work with each other’s shortcomings.

    I still wonder in the back of my mind if he intentionally let me get emotional so I WOULD spout off to see what my real feelings were. He has a total track record of that: getting me upset or outright hurt, so my real feelings come out on a wave of pain. It’s downright evil, but that’s how he gets people’s truth beneath their pretentions.

    Altho I overfunctioned, everything I said was positive, aside from feeling stressed out and aggravated that he had hung up on me. So IF it was a test, I know I passed it.

    It’s even possible that he really IS in love with me and is just seeing where MY feelings for him are at this stage, after months of separation. He has done that repeatedly throughout our relationship. But all this is conjecture.

    I know we’re not supposed to think about what is he thinking, but I call it getting into his mind like staying one step ahead of someone who is plotting and scheming on you. You gotta understand he has used his powerful mind to put me in deep psychological pain repeatedly. So I look for the signs, like him hiding his emotions and him getting me upset.

    Ok, now I know I said too much. I shouldn’t even go here on this blog I suppose. I don’t expect anyone to understand and I am supposed to have long since disqualified him when he broke my heart.

    There’s just one little problem…I’m in love with him.

  112.  #112Tina on July 19, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    I’m with Daria, raw guts 🙂

  113.  #113Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    Should I text Ryan, “I feel deceived. What do you think?” after him claiming that his battery went dead when we were on the phone? I am almost sure it was a lie. When MY battery goes dead on a call, I call them back as soon as I am able to plug it in. He made no effort to do that, or to relieve my mind when I felt so frustrated after he hung up.

  114.  #114Nikita on July 19, 2010 at 7:38 pm



  115.  #115Siena on July 19, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    Brenda! WHAT THE HELL!? What did he forgive you for? Please tell me what sin against him you committed?

    Do NOT text him again! You are throwing yourself at his feet, and he DOES NOT DESERVE IT!

    I’m feeling adamant because I see you beating yourself up. YOU are beating yourself up. He’s not doing any of this… YOU ARE!

    I love you, but STOP!

  116.  #116Nikita on July 19, 2010 at 7:46 pm

    Feeling deceived is akin to to feeling attacked and that is an assumption/judgement…….and just plain not fair!

    Maybe I feel uncomfortable communicating or connecting right now…..why push and not respect my comfort zone?
    I was honest when I expressed that right now you trigger me so can I feel heard? And if I’m feeling unheard then I might as well hang up the phone….because I’m not being heard anyway…..

    Can you see that ???

  117.  #117Nikita on July 19, 2010 at 7:48 pm

    Bull in a china shop comes to mind when we ” try to fix it” instead of just cutting our losses and walking.

  118.  #118Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    I apologized for overfunctioning again. It has been a central issue in our relationship. We played Allana Pratt’s game about a year ago where you ask:

    Tell me something you like about me?
    Tell me something you think we are in sync on?
    Tell me something you think I should know?

    You are only allowed to say “thank you” in response. Then the other person asks the questions to the first person. It is a non-threatening way for him or you to tell something that may be difficult (“Tell me something you think I should know.”). When we played the game, we were getting along quite well, and we were sitting in a restaurant.

    He replied, “I wish you wouldn’t always have so many issues in our relationship. Every time I leave, you text me. It’s too much.”

    So I’ve had this issue all along, and most recently, I assured him that I’ve changed. And I did it again. So I apologized.

    I thot maybe it would be appropriate to text him back because he texted me. I want to call him on it when he tells white lies because if his phone really DID go dead, then I was a total insane weirdo. But I can tell it is a lie, because he waited over a day to tell me. That means he was either trying to upset me or was just a rude, childish jerk. I just want to call him on it.

  119.  #119Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 7:56 pm


    I appreciate your wisdom and wit! I follow you about the bull in a china closet, and I think you are right. But you lost me on the post before that.

    The fact is, we were having a VERY productive, connected, sensitive conversation.

    Nevermind. I really do need to walk away from this relationship. It really is unhealthy when deceit is par for the course. And it is. You gotta understand I KNOW THIS MAN WELL. This isn’t a 4th date or even a 4th month CD. This is someone I’ve known almost three years and started dating 1.5 yrs ago.

    He lies like the devil! There, I said it. I have no doubt he lied! “I feel deceived” is VERY, VERY MILD compared with the feeling of sadness, despair, and exasperation I have inside. Okay, I’ll say what you all want me to say:


    There, I’ll let my deceptive, genius-level, passive-aggressive, handsome, asshole, adorable pet schizophrenic go. God, I miss him!

  120.  #120Siena on July 19, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    Brenda, overfunctioning is not a sin. There’s nothing to apologize for. You haven’t harmed him in any way. His line, “I wish you wouldn’t always have so many issues in our relationship. Every time I leave, you text me. It’s too much.” is just plain rude. Rude rude rude.

    If anything, he should be apologizing to YOU for not cherishing you like women are supposed to be cherished!

    If he was giving you everything you needed, you would feel NO COMPUNCTION to “text him too much” (what does that even mean!?)

    He’s not man enough for you, plain and simple.

    I know you love him, but please love yourself more so that a man who CAN love you the way you need to be loved (including contacting you and ‘filling you up’ as much as you need to be) can find his way to you.

    Doormats apologize for things like that, love. Not sirens. You are a siren. You did not sin against him at ALL.

    He deserves no more of your time or energy. He has to EARN it. He hasn’t earned squat.

  121.  #121Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 8:07 pm


    Thank you for being the voice of reason.

    But you see, Rori is a relationship coach for women JUST like me who are full of insecurity and poor self-esteem. Initially, when he left, I felt insecure because he left abruptly. We would spend a delightful evening talking and smiling and saying, “You’re awesome!” back and forth to each other!

    Then, all of a sudden, he would stand up, saying, “I’m going to go.” I felt my cheeks get red and hot, and I’d say, “Why???”

    “I’m tired.”

    “Oh. Bye.”

    Then the moment the door closed on his back, all my insecurities would come to the surface. I would call or text him saying, “Will I ever see you again? Did I do something to upset you?”

    At that stage, I hadn’t done anything at all. He simply didn’t have much social grace to make a graceful, gradual exit. And I was used to Kenny, who would reliable say, “I’ll call you tomorrow at 9, all right?” or “I’ll see you Saturday around 8:30, all right?”


    If you knew my full background, you would realize just what a huge amount of emotional damage I have worked out of. I mean, I consider myself relatively healthy these days. But leaning back is STILL an unnatural-feeling effort even after over a year of listening to Rori.

    I know it’s not a SIN, but I would apologize if I missed a scheduled date with a man, too. I messed up in the relationship, something that was a big issue we have discussed. It’s why I’m here. I overfunction.

    And I’m too verbose! 🙂

  122.  #122Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 8:10 pm

    Ryan is extremely sensitive and with his internal instability, due to schizophrenia, he said he couldn’t handle stress. He wanted it to just be happy and carefree when he was with me. I did my best to keep it that way, but as time went on, the schizophrenia interfered more and more with the peace between us. So the issues became real.

    But you’re talking with a woman, I’m embarrassed to say, who is known to text him 100 times in a day or two. I texted him about 30 times between Sunday and today. **blushes** Daria, don’t read this!

  123.  #123Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    BTW, I agree with you that he hasn’t earned squat.

    I felt suicidal for two days after his fake proposal last July. He sliced out all my hope, trust, and dreams in one softly-spoken sentence, “It’s just a friendship. I’m not in love with you.” He had been talking about a ring, engagement, very, very unmistakeably, and all my love, commitment, hopes and dreams were at their height.

    I have been reeling ever since. I am only now starting to gain my footing in the past 2-3 months.

  124.  #124Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    I am absorbing what you all are saying. I don’t mean to be defending either myself or Ryan. I am just explaining where I’m coming from. I feel sad about how badly I’ve allowed men to treat me.

    I hope that tomorrow when I go into work, Bill will ask me out on a real date at a fancy restaurant. That would feel so good. To be treated well by a normal, healthy man. And now I’m crying.

  125.  #125Gigi on July 19, 2010 at 8:21 pm


    I know you talk often about Ryan’s schizophrenia. I do see the “Unavailable Guy and the Fallback Girl” in this so much. And, I know I mentioned it earlier and you don’t want to buy it at this point. I understand. I finally bought it recently. And, kind of embarrassed to say that I saw myself there. Ah, I’m learning. We’re all learning.

    Anyhow, if you can stop thinking about Ryan and focus on your circular dating and yourself, it would be best. It’s been several months since you were dating Ryan. If marriage is what you want, look elsewhere. You’ll be much happier in the end! 🙂

  126.  #126Simply Shannon on July 19, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    Brenda, I love you. Please don’t beat yourself up. It’s all baby steps. This clearly doesn’t feel good. I’m way up in my head thinking about him, what is he thinking, what can I do. Ahhh. It feels so overwhelming. I just want to rest. I don’t want to worry. I trust God to handle this for me. I trust God to put the right man in my path (Ryan or otherwise). I place Ryan in your hands God. If you want me to do more here, I would like for you to make it crystal clear and give me exact steps. Until I hear from you, I’ll assume there is nothing more I need to do. I surrender it to you God.

    Love, Brenda

  127.  #127Siena on July 19, 2010 at 8:29 pm

    Oh Bren, hugs girl! You don’t want a guy who can’t handle stress! Life is stressful! Who would take care of you if you got hurt?

    You were a huge blessing to him, but now it’s time to let him go so you can have your happily ever after. You deserve nothing less.

  128.  #128Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 8:29 pm


    Thank you! I will. But just for the record, I am not thrilled about dating.

    Here’s what Greek wrote tonight:

    “Hello Brenda
    Thanks for the mail and can i please ask some questions so that we can know each other better”

    I already gave him a feeling message about talking in human. He said he has phone difficulties and this was his response now. So guess what I just wrote him? >;- )

    “I feel curious…how do you run a business without a phone? Or are you in Nigeria?”

    Hello? This is 2010! Who can’t pick up a phone? So I am strongly suspecting he is just a scammer in another country. Probably wants money for his dying son.

  129.  #129Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 8:32 pm


    Thanks. I’m a wounded puppy laying on the road, and I have a broken leg. Every time Ryan sees me, he kicks me.

  130.  #130Gigi on July 19, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    Aw Brenda! However, crying is good as long as you are moving through it. And, it would feel so good for you to be able to take yourself out to that fancy restaurant or write that poem or go dancing and just feel so good!

    Reminds me, I was at my Dad’s for dinner the other night and for my aunt’s birthday dinner. I was a bit too full after the dinner and dessert and decided to walk my old childhood neighborhood with his dog. I found men approaching left and right. It was fun! And, I smiled and felt good (even thought the impetus for the walk had been an overfull tummy.) The most fun though was the guy who was out on his doorstep retrieving his flag for the day. I said hello to him and in return he said, “You look like a movie star.” I smiled as I kept walking and I said, “That’s the best thing I’ve heard all day!”

    If I thought he was a potential guy I would have stopped. However, it felt so good and I felt so open and I’ve noticed what a difference that makes. Having passion for my life with or without a li! And, that I do believe will magnetize a great guy!

  131.  #131joan on July 19, 2010 at 8:34 pm


    I feel very sad to read all the agony that you have put yourself through over Ryan – both recent and distant past. Please consider that continuing to focus on what he might be feeling/thinking/doing is still a form of overfunctioning. Don’t take it from any of us; take it straight from Rori. I had saved this comment of Rori’s from an earlier post:

    If you keep thinking about him – you’re still chasing him – sorry, but it’s true – so you have to truly do other things instead of think about him. Love, Rori
    See Comment #849 of https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/dating/how-to-stop-chasing-men/#comment-49995

  132.  #132Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 8:37 pm

    Yes, I deserve nothing less than my happy ever after.

    I was naughty and I deserve to have another bull in a china closet comment…

    I sent the deceived feeling message and then a second one…

    “It would feel so good to be treated like a goddess by a man. That feeling is alien to me. How do you feel about that?”

    He used to pride himself in poetic writing about treating every woman like a face of the goddess. He talked beautifully about the beauty of women and the beauty of their hearts matching the beauty of their feminine forms.

    I am letting him know by that that he treated me like shit, basically. I feel angry at him and I miss him like crazy at the same time. And at the same time I feel sad that my main self-talk from childhood screams, “NOW what did I do wrong???”

  133.  #133joan on July 19, 2010 at 8:46 pm


    Re your question in #87: the recent Warrior Woman eletter is a recycling of the blog post, Sexy Warrior Woman You, dated August 24, 2009.

    In that post, Justin/Fernando’s name is a hotlink that jumps to his comment.

  134.  #134Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 8:46 pm


    That’s awesome! How empowering for a man to say that to you! I used to feel like that when I was slender…I’ll get there again. I do treat myself out, and I treat myself well these days. That is good growth.

    Joan, Thank you very much! You are right, that is chasing him.

  135.  #135Nikita on July 19, 2010 at 8:47 pm


    Feeling sad, exasperated…etc. Feels way more authentic than deceived to me….. Those things feel true.

    So what if he lies……so what? That’s “his stuff” and you can’t control his stuff or work it out but you can work through it by feeling what you feel and being honest and intimate with *Brenda*.

    Start by accepting him. . .as he is. I’m hearing a lot of blame from your side and it doesn’t sound empowering. Own your feelings and choose to reject this man as a healthy candidate for a mate….. For now….because he isn’t coming towards you…and by focusing on him to the exclusion of the rest of your life it keeps you from seeing and experiencing all of life. What are you not looking at by focusing on his “faults”?

  136.  #136Daria on July 19, 2010 at 8:49 pm

    ugh this just feels icky blah

    i feel ANGRY when people ignore my advice

    i feel ANGRY when people “explain”

    i feel ANGRY when people say they are special and Different from me

    i feel angry when people judge me

    i feel gross

    i feel helpless

    i feel weird

    I feel frustrated and weird watching people suffer from their addictions

    and i feel numb and separate, lonely

  137.  #137Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    Greek says, “Hello Brenda
    well i do use the atnt Phone
    I do have a phone and am not here for jokes”

    I could say, “I don’t want an email only relationship. What do you think?”

    However, I’ve already given him a feeling message toward that end. So I am going to experiment with not responding at all.

  138.  #138Daria on July 19, 2010 at 8:51 pm


    i feel sad now

    i feel guilty

    i feel afraid

  139.  #139Nikita on July 19, 2010 at 8:54 pm


    This reminds me of a Joyce Meyer thing I saw….get better not bitter- I think but basically she said to make a list of everything we don’t like about a person and then see where we do it….meaning if you spot it you got it….. This can be a lovely opportunity for a lot of healing because of the feelings and history you have with your pet Ryan 😉

    ” bull in a china shop” is meant when we don’t know our own strength and we are placed in a delicate situation surrounded by fragile stuff…..and no matter how much we try we can’t change our nature in that environment……it’s dangerous

  140.  #140Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 8:56 pm


    I spent most of the day and on this thread apologizing to the point of humiliation.

    I am shifting to acknowledge what Siena told me that I don’t need to apologize.

    Daria, so sorry I am not perfect like you.

    As usual, I’m damned if I do and damned if I don’t.

    When will I learn to quit baring my heart on this blog?

  141.  #141Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 8:57 pm

    Nikita, if you read my stuff in this whole thread you will see where I am coming from. I hope.

  142.  #142Daria on July 19, 2010 at 9:01 pm

    Brenda – hey i feel mad to be addressed this way. i’m processing my triggers. i don’t like being insulted.

  143.  #143Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    Every day in my past was Kick Brenda Day.

    If every day I dare to post on Siren Island becomes Kick Brenda Day, then I’ll just return to my Island of Isolation I came out of, which half the reason why I had no social skills in the past.

    I am not looking for more reasons to Kick Brenda.

    I am in process and trying my damnedest to heal.

  144.  #144Nikita on July 19, 2010 at 9:07 pm

    Hey Brenda,

    I think I read everything on this thread but I have not read all of your history with Ryan…..but was once very much engaged to a man with the same medical condition/label as Ryan so my heart is with you both in a very deep way. I remember feeling very frustrated in that relationship and yet I feel so appreciative that I didn’t marry him…..but we were very much in love.

    Abraham hicks has something on YouTube if you search the name with the tag schizophrenia. But I feel very supportive of you being inspired by Sienna…..I feel happy to change the subject….and support you as you move into better feeling thoughts 🙂

    I don’t think any of us Sirens want to see you apologizing….we just want to be supportive and feel supportive…and safe to express and riff …

    Xoxo Nikita

  145.  #145Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 9:07 pm

    Daria, I’m such a horrible person! Go ahead, take a kick! Everyone else does!

  146.  #146Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 9:09 pm


    I feel angry because I feel attacked almost every time you read my posts. I need softness, not more judgment and criticism. Feeling messages or not, I feel judged and criticized by you. How do you feel about that?

  147.  #147Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 9:12 pm


    Thank you very much! I’ll check out the Abraham Hicks video. I am keenly interested in learning more about schizophrenia, and possibly working with schizophrenics in the future.

  148.  #148Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 9:19 pm


    Sometimes I wonder if you are just looking for a fight or for drama. I don’t feel emotionally safe when you are on the island. What do you think?

  149.  #149Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 9:27 pm

    Shannon, RE: #126 – Thank you so much, Shannon! I love you too! I feel really comforted and at peace reading your words. I am going to sleep well tonight.

  150.  #150Brenda on July 19, 2010 at 9:34 pm


    Are you walking out?

    …or are you sweeping the issues under the rug?

  151.  #151Daria on July 19, 2010 at 9:49 pm

    Brenda – i’m not interested in arguing with you.

    I did not direct any comments towards you till I saw a sarcastic comment directed towards me.

    I’m feeling angry. I don’t like feeling attacked, accused of stuff, assumed about.

    I am not going to not process my triggers because of someone else’s discomfort with my process.

    so on to process:

    i feel … defensive, tightened up in the upper part of my body, and my arms. i feel hot on the side of my spleen… i feel numb across the back of my neck down into my arms, and numb in my jaw … i feel weird in my tummy and tight… i feel disconnected in my head from my body

    I feel my heart beating in the middle of my neck.

    I feel tight on the sides of my face, and under my jaw

    I feel afraid, and angry, and numb. this is my classic feeling, that rori says i will discover and be able to name…ooh. i feel tight under my arms too, and pushing into the back of my head, and shaky hands

    i love my feelings

    and that feels like

    smiling, beating heart fast with fear, relaxing and sighing

    i love the tightening in the middle of my tongue

    i love my shakyness

    i love my confusion and numbing out feeling

    it feels good to know i love this

    i feel reassured

    i feel afraid

    i love my fear

  152.  #152Daria on July 19, 2010 at 9:56 pm

    this feels freakin effin scary!

  153.  #153joan on July 19, 2010 at 10:04 pm


    I feel so sad that you are feeling kicked. I feel in awe of your attempt to unstuff your feelings and to speak to Ryan in Feeling Messages. It was a brave experiment that, unfortunately, didn’t produce the results you wanted. When you tried to “massage the data”, your emotional laboratory imploded, and now you’re surrounded by a pile of smoldering, stinky rubble.

    But, the good news is that you don’t have to clean up the mess!!! You can just walk away and try a new experiment – that is, not giving Ryan any more of your emotional/intellectual energy. Although you probably don’t believe it right now, you won’t die from not obsessing over him:


    Please don’t leave Siren Island. I get a kick out of reading your posts. I love your sense of humor.

  154.  #154Daria on July 19, 2010 at 10:15 pm

    hmm… i feel sad and left out and resentful…
    i feel afraid

    i feel weird

    super triggered from past

    i feel tightness in my eye and right arm

  155.  #155Daria on July 19, 2010 at 10:21 pm

    i love me. im a warrior for me. me me me me me me.

  156.  #156dorothea on July 19, 2010 at 10:26 pm

    “Brenda says:


    Sometimes I wonder if you are just looking for a fight or for drama”

    —->Please, Brenda, you are triggered. That is why you are saying such dramatic things as:

    “Brenda says:

    Daria, I’m such a horrible person! Go ahead, take a kick! Everyone else does!””

    Triggers are awesome.

    I don’t want you to stop posting here and baring your soul. It’s good! Maybe you don’t see how we all want to help you very much be successful with men, and at the same time we process our own desire to help you or feel triggered in response to your situation openly.

    Honestly, it seems like we are all feeling concerned and frustrated about the way you dealt with the ryan situation. it hurts us to see you hurt yourself. Maybe it hurts us for different reasons or triggers, but I can personally say it felt painful to see you on your hands and knees today. I felt utterly alarmed but didn’t want to make you feel worse.

    I hope you’ll see how saying things like “im such a horrible person, everyone kicks me, go ahead and do that,” hasn’t any FEELING stated. you are triggered and so is daria. in my opinion we should all be riffing out our triggers and not covering up our feelings with sarcastic, go-nowhere drama like “kick me.” Daria is a riffer, you should be riffing back right along with her. It is an amazing opportunity.

    I feel guilty and embarassed about the way i handled this exact sort of sarcasm last time. i want to riff out my triggers instead of go for the throat in a dramatic attempt to grasp for some sort of perverted control. I feel so bad.

    I know I have my boy hat on and I feel self conscious. I really don’t want anyone to think badly of me.

    Not wanting anyone to think badly of me is a consistent trigger theme for me right now. thank you!!

  157.  #157Daria on July 19, 2010 at 10:27 pm

    i feel sad

    i feel so not safe

    i love you daria

    you are right

    you are always in the right

    you are always ok

    you are always good to express your feelings

    thank u for being a brave little girl

    i got ur back

    ohhh i know that felt bad and confusing and shut down then

    its all good

    we’re trying something new

    feeling sad

    i love you

  158.  #158Tina on July 19, 2010 at 10:33 pm

    I’m a Warrior Woman Goddess and I have an invisible shield around me when someone is going to kick me, it shields me and allows me to express myself in feeling messages , even my bad feelings that make no sense, I fight for me! to save my life, I trust my boundaries, even when I doubt myself, oh thats when my invisable shield kicks in , for my own good yeah, something like that…

  159.  #159Tina on July 19, 2010 at 10:37 pm

    oh yeah when I feel triggered, my um button located in my vagjayjay hehe, senses soemthing is not right with me, oh my feelings of insecurity triggers my invisable shield so not to allow anyone to kick me kinda like an um…timer like reserve tank or something, dunno

  160.  #160Gigi on July 19, 2010 at 10:37 pm


    You really expressed yourself well!


    I think you have received lots of supportive feedback. Let that sink in then consider Dorothea’s suggestion on riffing…


    You are the riffing Queen!

  161.  #161Daria on July 19, 2010 at 10:38 pm

    Tina dammit – I don’t have a shield and I feel kicked. my shield is my body tigthening up, i love my body, i love my tightening

  162.  #162Tina on July 19, 2010 at 10:40 pm

    I carry a weapon, mostly for show and just in case I need it for stuff like wacking bushes lol. A Goddess Warrior Woman needs tools, even a man tool.

  163.  #163Daria on July 19, 2010 at 10:42 pm

    Thanks Gigi

  164.  #164Tina on July 19, 2010 at 10:43 pm

    I can take on even the mightest of men with my vagjayjay shield 🙂

  165.  #165Daria on July 19, 2010 at 10:48 pm

    Tina are you taking them on inside?

  166.  #166Tina on July 19, 2010 at 10:50 pm

    oh hell yeah DAria 🙂

  167.  #167Tina on July 19, 2010 at 10:51 pm

    I dont mean literally of course well just one my “favorite” he is my lover for now

  168.  #168Tina on July 19, 2010 at 10:54 pm

    They go um … limp within my shield, they try to fight me but lol and use my powers against me but I am a Goddess Warrior Woman 🙂

  169.  #169Daria on July 19, 2010 at 10:56 pm

    oooh sounds yum… feeling sad right now led to a craving of imagined sex stuff with a man that i mutually agreed that we’re at deal braker… mr … raw guts

    i feel craving for mr raw guts hmmm … in my fantasy im gonna make him eat all my raw pussy guts hahaha

    i feel weird now! uhoh

  170.  #170joan on July 19, 2010 at 10:57 pm

    Frickin’ DSL has been in and out all day/night cause of the weather here . . . GRRRRRRR!! I lost my last post to:


    I feel curious. How is your “leaning forward, rockstar diva” experiment going?

  171.  #171Daria on July 19, 2010 at 11:04 pm

    joan –

    oooh!!!! so my leaning forward rockstar experiment went well.

    I am now no longer leaning forward. However, I have expanded my ability to SHARE

    I found that calling men to hang out when i felt “vibe clear” about it was a ok. or if i wanted something, like a place to sit down. or to smoke. orr… something

    so i will continue to do that

    calling men when i feel icky and drainy tho – that did not feel good or anything

    calling men and texting them when they weren’t calling me… felt bad towards the end, because even tho this man DID like me, we got to a deal breaker for me convo and i feel all invested now

    i feel more relaxed not really worrying about initiating …. it’s so easy to check my “vibe clear ” about it

    it’s like

    if it’s meant to happen i can already kinda tell that it feels possible probable and totally ok to call/initiate/what not

    so somehow ive magically looped aroudn to being lean back again now

    i did contact this one man earlier – vibe was NOT clear – and he did not answer, and yesterday i felt weird and contacted him too, so now i feel like, ick and im NOT contacting him now thank u very much.


    also my experiment made it easier for me to share how im feeling, because i was less concerned with crafting a non “you” feeling message…

    and more with visualizing my heart open like a book fluttering, and sharing what was REALLY feeling at that moment – a lil different than before… i had fallen in a rut

    ohh and the first thing was that ive been going outside everyday and having fun in the sun – due to my non worrying about claling people up to hang out

  172.  #172Tina on July 19, 2010 at 11:09 pm


    I did an experiment, well not really an experiment, I was allowing truckman to “go there” meaning my vagjayjay and I felt a burning sensation, like ick that feels burning icky, ouchy so yeah what a trigger that was yeah …

    I have a stupid quesiton, whats that lumpy bumpy thing in the front wall of my vagjayjay called? lol,

  173.  #173lucy on July 19, 2010 at 11:10 pm

    Brenda – (((big hug)))

  174.  #174Daria on July 19, 2010 at 11:10 pm

    for example i now can say…

    i dont want to be the one to initiate with men, i like being feminine and being pursued


    come on now, we didnt even kiss… i mean that feels weird with hearing you say that you like me so much


    im feeling kinda weird cuz you’ve been real nice in the way you treat me and im feeling a lil offbalance, a lott of people are in my head, and i dont want to come off like im using you, i like being treated this way, and sometimes i feel a lil uncomfortable cuz its actually real nice


    that last part i didnt say but i could might say to this one guy that is stepping up


    ohhh that feels bad… i NEEd a man to eat my raw guts… its not gonna work for me to not have that… this feels sad dude… i think im gonna cry

  175.  #175Daria on July 19, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    Tina – are you talking about the lumpy bumpy thing that feels good?

    that would be the clitoris

    if its on the inside and its lumpy bumpy right on the insdie of it on the top thats the g-spot

  176.  #176joan on July 19, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    Hey Daria,

    Sounds good. I feel curious about a few things:

    1) Your term, “vibe clear” – is that the equivalent of “not being attached to the outcome”?

    2) You used Feeling Messages with the word “you” in them, and they didn’t come across as “blaming”?

  177.  #177lucy on July 19, 2010 at 11:21 pm

    i feel terribly sad that all the attractive men bombed for various reasons. i feel very very sad about the men who apparently don’t want me – tn man, lit prof, winker hottie (i feel like calling him gypsy boy but i don’t want to make that true). i feel kinda good maybe sorta about the new guy – garden guy – i feel a really good vibe about him and hope that he mentions meeting very soon so i can test that. he feels good and safe and a little interesting but not exciting and fun and cute like tn and wh.

  178.  #178Tina on July 19, 2010 at 11:22 pm

    hehe yeah I just looked it up, its my g spot 🙂 well yeah that anyway, sometimes I feel burning if not touched the way I like, so I feel angry and annoyed and want to slap him on the head lol but yeah thats it my gspot.

  179.  #179Daria on July 19, 2010 at 11:30 pm

    joan –

    1) “vibe clear” is sort of like not being attached to the outcome…

    more like… when i think about doing this… does it feel 100% good and easy?

    ie – it feels good and easy to text some man whos kind of a guy friend im not really into… “hey i feel like kickin it, whatsup?”

    but it does NOT feel so good and easy to say, text that to someone who i know can’t give me what i want (like if he’s at work) or who i’m feeling needy toward

    a lot of the experiment was sharing my “wants” to men , but more like in a universal way… for example i might text man 1 ” i feel like kickin it!” and then a different man might call me

    so yes i was not attached to the outcome, i was expressing my desire for something, but i WAS initiating contact – when it felt Good and inspired… for example my intuition would lead me to contact one man at one point and another at another point… and not really expect them to Do anything, but rather just share that want

    2) When i shared my feelings, i focused less on the actual setup of the thing, but more on — what am i feeling right now in my open heart book???

    it felt easier and i was able to be more authentic…

    if i FELT blame or something like that, then i would go deeper than that, so that i was truly just reading a page from my book, the same way i would share something with you all here, and not with an agenda

  180.  #180Daria on July 19, 2010 at 11:33 pm

    Tina – i feel the burning too, I had to slow down D-man on the touching, twice, he didn’t get it, i showed him tho, and then it felt really good when he did go down on me,

    i still feel sad thinking about him, tho, we didn’t kiss or get romantic,

    i felt weird

    i feel glad that he brought back my desire for getting gone down on tho i had forgotten it could feel that good

    i don’t like that he doesn’t talk about it without mumbling, he says hes not the type to be all about doing that, well i feel angry, i feel weird hearind that i will talk to u later bye

  181.  #181joan on July 19, 2010 at 11:33 pm


    Some neat examples you gave there, and they do feel more natural. I think some of my resistance to Feeling Messages is that they feel formulaic, stilted and contrived (that is, besides the issue of hubby’s trigger with the words, “I feel”).

    Oh well, off to bed for me now, it’s around 2:30am here. I’ve been waiting on a download to finish.

  182.  #182Daria on July 19, 2010 at 11:37 pm

    joan – i used the “I feel” formula ones for years and they did a huge deal for me in changing the way i feel think and express myself. so now i naturally use them.

    this is why i feel comfortable (see?) to just check my feelings (vibe) now

    but at first i would not have made it to feel my feelings without using the formula. i am the formula queen!

    i still use the formula, it’s just slightly more advanced now so it comes out as natural

  183.  #183Daria on July 19, 2010 at 11:39 pm

    the most important thing i ask myself

    how do i feel?





    (sometimes its bad or icky)

  184.  #184Daria on July 19, 2010 at 11:42 pm

    without using “i feel” our mind doesn’t learn to FEEL the feelings… I didn’t understand what feelings were when I first found Rori… let alone feel them in my body

  185.  #185Daria on July 19, 2010 at 11:43 pm

    I feel afraid! I feel tightened up. i feel sad. i love my feelings. i feel disappointed

    i resist that disappointed feeling alot, with men and in my life

    i love my disappointment

    i love you disappointment!!

  186.  #186Daria on July 20, 2010 at 12:00 am

    another thing i did in my experiment was drive to meet men.

    which rori says to do on the first meeting anyway…

    so i met this guy over the bridge from my house…

    but truthfully it makes it more clear for me when i dont want to drive to men

    my vibe around driving relaxed, so that i feel comfy to drive to a man, WHEN i feel like it

    but i realize that i dont really feel like it very often, especially if im romantically feeling him and it doesnt feel like he’s offering me stuff

    i spent some time with Getrite man as his ‘buddy” and that felt bad, and then i proceeded to as his buddy, get to know and talk to his friend…

  187.  #187Daria on July 20, 2010 at 12:18 am

    yet another thing –

    a man called me right now, and i was on the other line

    hes like… what are you doing

    im like… im feeling good on the other line with my friend

    hes like… so you’re busy?

    me : yeah right now… do you want me to call you back?

    him: yeah call me back right after

    without relaxing into it i mighta felt awkward and not offered to call him back, and had him call me back at a time that was inconvenient since i Do want to call him back after my call, its great for me

  188.  #188Brenda on July 20, 2010 at 7:19 am


    Your wording of my experiment was very creative. Thank you for the link. I will read it. It wasn’t really an experiment. It was more like dysfunctional behavior. I feel like I made huge strides yesterday to correct that. I am trying very hard to change. I feel like I have a new, fresh start today. Ryan who?? 🙂

    About the feeling messages, I think most of us sound stiff with them because they are a new skill. Just like a child doing the crawl stroke for the first time will look clumsy while an Olympic swimmer will look as graceful as a fish. I think a big purpose for this blog is for us to practice with feeling messages in a relatively safe environment, in slow motion. That is, in writing instead of in speech. Then the more we do it, the more it becomes our every day speech pattern, as it has to a large degree for Daria.

    I have been using feeling messages everywhere I go, with my brothers, my Mom, at work, with girl friends, etc, and I am rapidly finding it becoming second nature. I don’t really care if others feel offended or angry by my feeling messages. I just state my feelings, and I believe it is healthy.

  189.  #189Brenda on July 20, 2010 at 7:25 am


    I really appreciate all that you said, and thank you for your support and concern.

    Yes, I was definitely hitting on triggers. I have had an exceeding amount of yelling and criticism most of my life, and my comment, “Go ahead, kick me!” was a sarcastic way of saying, “I feel criticized and judged. It is not helping. I am trying to find healing, not more wounds.” Sarcasm is the ugly cousin of anger. I felt angry because I felt attacked.

    All in all, I really appreciate how each of you gives me something different and new to process alongside my path of emotional healing. It is helping me significantly to gently change how I think and feel. That is deep change, so it isn’t easy or quick. So I appreciate your patience in my healing process.

    I feel much more free of Ryan today. I feel raw inside, but I don’t even want to talk about Ryan today. I feel good that the topic is beginning to feel like trying to find an appetite for a rotten meal.

    I want to find a fresh meal, a healthy meal.

  190.  #190dorothea on July 20, 2010 at 7:28 am

    yum fresh and healthy food. is it lunch time yet?

  191.  #191T.Leigh on July 20, 2010 at 7:31 am

    Evening Primrose Oil has relieved my PMS Symptoms.

  192.  #192Renee on July 20, 2010 at 7:52 am


    Something you may want to look into for your PMS is bio-identical hormone replacement. I was low on progesterone (many women with bad pms are) and since I’ve been on it, my pms has been muuuuuch better. Rori actually talks about how because of an imbalance in our environment, we’re over-estrogenized. Among natural health advocates, this is common knowledge. Having too much estrogen can definitely increase your pms symptoms.

    Anyway — I don’t know what doctors are available in your area, but search for someone who does “natural hormone replacement”…most women in their 30’s and above start to get an imbalance in their hormones (if they haven’t previously because of the estrogen dominant environment we live in) and balancing them out with the same exact substances your body produces is a great, natural way to help yourself feel tons better!

    Good luck!

  193.  #193Sadandquiet on July 20, 2010 at 8:01 am


    I read all of you posts and looked back to some of your history.

    I feel frustrated and angry reading your stuff.

    I apologize for being harsh, and tough love time, but you don’t need support here, you need someone to throw away your phone and to get real with you.

    YOU HAVE TO STOP. And I suggest this forum is not enough, you need professional support for self esteem and impulse control. This is another tool, but your behavior is completely out of control.

    Four more texts and then when he finally responds you say it was a test? What the heck? You are all in your head, which has no bearing on reality. You have no idea what he is thinking or doing. And you can’t control him. You can only control yourself.

    This man does not want a relationship with you. He has asked that you stop contacting him, and what do you do? You do whatever you want.

    Please stop focusing on him, and focus on WHY YOU ARE DOING THIS. Every time you think of him, change your thoughts to yourself and why you are doing this.

    The truth is, you asked for advise, then you did not follow it, you did whatever you wanted, and then told people they are critisizing you. This is not right. The people on this forum have been very nice and supportive.

    Only you can control yourself, and you need to take baby steps.

    I personally think people here are being too indulgent and not really helping you. But more importantly, why are you not helping yourself?????

  194.  #194Brenda on July 20, 2010 at 8:03 am


    Yep, it’s lunchtime! Hmmm, can’t quite decide if I want to eat Bryan or Bill! 😛

  195.  #195Brenda on July 20, 2010 at 8:11 am

    This is from an ad for martial arts training:

    “The term “alpha male” has been used and abused lately.

    It’s come to describe powerful CEO’s, buff jocks with a swagger,
    and men with “movie star” looks that have women hanging off their

    But to find the TRUE secret to becoming an “alpha” with women,
    you’ll need to go all the way back to the stone age when we were all
    running around in nothing but leopard-skin thongs (yes, even the


    ..and you’ll NEVER guess
    what this secret is!


    You see, in man’s early stages of development, the true measure
    of the “alpha” WASN’T who was the “most muscular”…

    ..it WASN’T who was the best looking

    ..it WASN’T the guy with the biggest package

    ..it WASN’T even the smartest caveman in the crowd

    No, the true “alpha” was the guy who could FIGHT!
    All of our instincts are based upon one single thing: SURVIVAL!

    From escaping the jaws of a saber-toothed tiger to “making
    babies”, we are genetically designed to carry on our species.

    Survival requires the ability to defend yourself and protect your
    “clan” (read “wife”, “girlfriend”, “family”, “friends”)

    Deep down inside, your instincts tell you this is true.

    And WOMEN know it too!”

    How do you feel about this? Do you feel attracted to a man who can fight? I like to feel protected, but I prefer a gentle man who only fights when it is an absolute, last resort, like when someone’s life is at stake.

  196.  #196Renee on July 20, 2010 at 8:18 am

    Ok, sirens. Here’s a question for you…I’m working to CD so I don’t become too attached to long distance guy and so I can practice using Rori’s tools, but I’m unsure whether I should go out with this one attorney guy…he’s definitely stepping forward (he’s written me several times from Match and I had always ignored him in the past because he wasn’t “my type”), but I find him pretty boring. He’s trying to set up a date for sometime this week, but I find talking to him on the phone rather painful because he has so little that’s interesting to add to the conversation.

    But, as I said, he is definitely doing the pursuing and he certainly seems to value me as a “prize”, so my question is — do I go out with him anyway just to have someone nice to go out with, despite the fact that he seems boring as all get out?

    I have two other guys I’m more interested in, but they’re not paying me quite as much attention as he is and I’m trying veeeeery hard to stay leaning back with long distance guy when I know that he’d respons with a sweet msg if I txted him, but that’s not good enough…he needs to want to see me and isn’t making plans at the moment to do so, so I definitely need the distraction of other dates…I just get the feeling that if I go out with attorney guy, I’m going to wish I were home playing on Facebook instead of sitting their struggling for conversation. What do you think?

  197.  #197Brenda on July 20, 2010 at 8:30 am


    Rori encourages us to date anyone who asks, within reason, even if we don’t feel attracted. That’s because each man we date is not necessarily for future possible marriage, but for therapy!

    So if you see attorney man as therapy, the date takes on a whole, new, non-threatening flavor! And you don’t need to struggle for conversation. This is an area where you can also lean back. Just smile and practice your visualization tools internally, so you are emanating feminine energy. You only need to talk if he initiates conversation. If there is an uncomfortable silence, let it lie. Let it be his problem to get a conversation going.

    Rori also encourages us to look for either a message or a mirror with each man we meet. What can you learn about yourself from him? Where does he trigger you? What qualities are in him that you see reflected in yourself?

    How do you feel about all that?

  198.  #198Megan on July 20, 2010 at 8:55 am

    just finished reading the email newsletter sent out and the part about
    “watching helplessly as the men you love go back to their ‘evil exes’ and the women their friends can’t stand”
    > this really struck a chord with me.
    my ex is now back in contact with his ex, although she is dating someone else
    they were eachother’s firsts and have grown up together, starting with the whole “puppy love” thing in 8th grade…
    i have always felt that there was no way I could compete with that and TRY not to take it personally but it is infuriating when she is super-immature and seems to screw over guys on the regular.
    while we were together he had opened up briefly to me about her and although he tried to ignore her attempts at contact it still bothered him.
    I tried not to take it personally that it bothered him due to their history but to know that she is back in his life after he had finally sworn her off brings up all the nasty voices…
    was I just a fill-in?
    is this why he no longer wants anything to do with me since she is in his life?
    I used to run into her on campus and she would look down at her phone as if embarassed
    and now the tables have turned.
    is it possible he’s turned to her as a source of comfort/distraction to get over me?
    ouch it hurts.

  199.  #199Renee on July 20, 2010 at 8:57 am


    Thanks for your input.

    I find myself dreading my possible date with this man. I know it’s fine to date people we don’t see ourselves marrying and I have no problem with that concept, but I do have a problem with the idea of sitting there at the table with the only feeling message that comes up being, “I feel bored.” I made it a point to lean back on the phone yesterday to see what he would do, and we sat there for what seemed like FOREVER in silence and when he did finally talk, it was something really boring and I feel this is triggering me to a certain extent because I fear I’M boring on dates…I seem to need someone engaging to engage me, if that makes sense.

    I can’t imagine that things are going to go any better in person, you know? I guess I figure if I’m going to date men who aren’t my potential soulmates, they should at least be fun — what do you think?

  200.  #200Brenda on July 20, 2010 at 9:07 am


    I am not the authority here, but as I understand, if you feel that yucky about the thoughts of a date with him, then listen to your feelings and don’t go. Been there, done that!

  201.  #201Renee on July 20, 2010 at 9:08 am


    I can see why you’d feel hurt. I’ve never had someone stop seeing me to return to an old gf or wife, but I have (on several occasions) been the girl hey dated after they’d been cheated on, so I went out of my way to show them how loyal I’d be, which totally backfired.

    Rori says in one of her programs that men who have been cheated on (especially multiple times) are actually most attracted to women who are capable of cheating, and it sounds like the woman your guy returned to was difficult as well, which apparently is appealing (the high degree of difficulty thing). When we make ourselves too easy to pursue, they lose interest, especially when we go out of our way to show them how much nicer/easier to get along with/more loyal we are than their last mates.

    I think Rori has it right — they really only respect us if we’re not easy to get, and this has to come from our hearts, not just as a result of “unavailability games” we sometimes play…I’m working on this (and also on being “the invitation”)…

  202.  #202dorothea on July 20, 2010 at 9:15 am

    Hello Sirens,
    I am going on vacation with LI tomorrow morning.

    I am feeling a little freaked out.

    It’s hard to keep that “you don’t GOT me” vibe with a man you keep refusing to be exclusive with when you’re on a close quarters vacation at your grandma’s house.

    I am trying to prepare myself today so that I DON’T freak out when triggered.

    Eep! I need guidance…

  203.  #203Laughing goddess on July 20, 2010 at 9:29 am

    Brenda: I didn’t read the blog yesterday and I’m am just getting caught up on your experience with Ryan. I feel weird commenting because you said that you don’t feel like talking about Ryan today. If you don’t want to read my further comments, I feel understanding of that.

    When I read your comments I felt understanding because I have been in a similar place of obssessing over a man. I felt understanding and was imaging how painful it must have felt for you. I also felt mad (in the same way Franny described) imaging someone texting me when I clearly told them that it wasn’t wanted I wanted. I imagined how pissed I would feel. I also felt triggered hearing you say that you think he is lying, evil, deceptive, manipulative. I don’t want to hang out with people who believe those things about me even though they SAY they love me.

    I feel worried that you will take this as me kicking you when youre down. I don’t want to make you feel bad.

    I don’t want to see you suffer. When I see how much love and support you offer women here, I feel admiring and touched.

    I feel so hopeful that you will truly let Ryan go. That you will give him back to God.

    I feel so hopeful that you will turn your focus inward and truly love and accept yourself.

    What I imagine when I read of your thoughts about Ryan (and I recognize this in myself as well) is addiction.

    I had a man that I was obsessed and addicted to less than a year ago. After finally giving it up I now feel completely unattracted to him. I felt blinded before and now that I am free of the addiction, I can very clearly see that he is not what I want in a man. I feel sad when I remember how muh of my life energy and time I spent obsessing. I feel ecstatic that I am no longer doing this. I don’t want to see you suffer in this way.

    Now my boy hat…
    Regardless of how much you say you love him, you also think he is a liar, manipulator, and mind-controller. I understand that you felt so good during the tender moments you shared with him. It seems like you are attaching that feeling good to him. You can get love and tenderness from many many other humans not just him.

    You are beautiful Brenda. I so hope you will put all this to rest. I just heard of a cool ceremony a friend of mine did where she buried all pictures and reminders of her ex. She made a little grave and buried it all as a way of releasing. There are lots of other ways to energetically release the past. Prayer asking God to release you from this addiction. Etc etc.

    I feel rambling now. I feel wishful that I could say the exact right thing to help you. I also feel guilty for my triggering that I have around the situation. I feel good expressing myself in feeling messages. I feel good practicing.

  204.  #204Brenda on July 20, 2010 at 9:30 am


    #1 Relaaaxxx! Do some Siren tools to get inside yourself and BE the air, BE the water, etc.

    This is sposta be fun! Let it be! I’m happy for you!

  205.  #205dorothea on July 20, 2010 at 9:46 am

    I just am not feeling totally comfortable being “serious” with him yet, and being in close quarters in another town for a week feels like i’m being forced into serious.

    i guess i have to talk to him about this, lol, f*ck!!!

  206.  #206dorothea on July 20, 2010 at 9:49 am

    like right now, he is texting me about how amazing he thinks i am and how lucky he is to know and love me…and i’m just feeling irritated that he isn’t freaking calling me or trying to see me or even tell me what time we are going to the f*cking airport tomorrow.

    i just feel hateful

  207.  #207dorothea on July 20, 2010 at 9:55 am

    i am feeling really angry. I feel like my chest is tight and I have to remember to breathe fully and deeply. I feel like I am dealing with a little boy who doesn’t do anything he says he is goign to do. Ok that is not a feeling. that is a judgment.


  208.  #208Brenda on July 20, 2010 at 9:57 am

    Laughing Goddess,

    I appreciate your care, concern, and effort to work with me. I mainly said I don’t feel like talking about Ryan as a means of saying don’t worry, I’m not going to obsess all day again! And to say hey, I did some really deep emotional work yesterday, and I feel a huge step closer to being free of that obsession.

    So for you to take the time to read all we wrote yesterday and to give me your feedback is very kind of you, and I appreciate it.

    LG: “I also felt mad (in the same way Franny described) imaging someone texting me when I clearly told them that it wasn’t wanted I wanted. I imagined how pissed I would feel.”

    What’s weird is that I am always second guessing at what he says, thinks, and does BECAUSE he is so deceptive. He habitually would check in with my current status on how I felt about him by hurting me, by telling me he didn’t want to see me anymore. This was his nasty method of seeing someone’s true feelings. He never believed a word I said without testing it. If I said, “I love you”, he would hurt me by “ending” the relationship to emote me to pain and tears. In the tears, I would spontaneously tell him how much I loved him. Then he would “make up” with me and things would be back to “normal”.

    It created a very weird dynamic to where I can’t trust him if he is moving forward in the relationship or moving back. He just kept jerking my emotions around REPEATEDLY. If it was just one time, I would think it was just a lack of relational skills.

    This is some deep psychological manipulation I’m talking about. You have probably heard the term “mind f*cking”? This is the first person I ever encountered who “heart f*cked” me, over and over.

    So I didn’t just imagine it…it was an established pattern. So when he says, “I don’t want to be with you. You should move on.” I don’t trust that he really means it. He MAY mean it. But he may be testing me. He is very insecure, and he may be checking the status of my feelings for him after months of being apart. If he says just friends and I am not attracted to you, then the natural reaction is, “I don’t want to be any thing more than friends with you, either”, right? I mean, who in their right mind would say, “I’m in love with you” to someone who said that? Only someone who was truly in love.

    So in case he was testing me, I said I only want to be friends, until you are free from schizophrenia. I have feelings for you, but I am not going to go anywhere with those feelings unless you are free. It was shortly after that that he hung up on me.

    This is difficult to explain because it was so deep it left me up thinking deep into the night, night after night. If you’ve never been heart-f*cked, and I hope you aren’t, it may not even be possible to understand. It is like being shot in the heart by someone you love and have been led to believe loves you.

    I was expressing my deep love for him and why I love him so much and everyone was saying why Brenda??? Look how he hurt you! So I figured everyone wanted me to say what a horrible person he is. The fact is, he IS lying, deceptive, and manipulative. He himself is not evil, but he has evil in him, which is causing the schizophrenia. I hate the evil in him. I love him. I don’t know if you can understand that.

    LG: “I don’t want to hang out with people who believe those things about me even though they SAY they love me.”

    I was just speaking glibly of his shortcomings. He and I have discussed this stuff. I don’t say it as bluntly to him, but it is simply fact. I could have said it in feeling messages, but I was just letting it all go yesterday on here, and saying it as I felt and thought it. He is a very unstable person whose behavior is controlled by heavy medications. And I am breaking free.

    LG: “I feel worried that you will take this as me kicking you when youre down. I don’t want to make you feel bad.”

    I don’t feel bad. I appreciate you caring.

    LG: “I don’t want to see you suffer. When I see how much love and support you offer women here, I feel admiring and touched.”

    Thank you.

    LG: “I feel so hopeful that you will truly let Ryan go. That you will give him back to God. I feel so hopeful that you will turn your focus inward and truly love and accept yourself.”

    I am working as hard and fast as I can to do that, and to stay in a healthy place.

    LG: “What I imagine when I read of your thoughts about Ryan (and I recognize this in myself as well) is addiction.”

    Yes, I read the Rori blog Joan referred me to: https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/attraction/will-you-fall-apart/. It was right on.

    LG: “Regardless of how much you say you love him, you also think he is a liar, manipulator, and mind-controller. I understand that you felt so good during the tender moments you shared with him. It seems like you are attaching that feeling good to him.”

    There is him and there is the schizophrenia. Two different, opposing forces operating in him. I love Ryan himself. But the schizophrenia is nasty, and it is not his identity. Ryan himself is sweet, gentle, and sensitive. This is the man I fell in love with. Like his own mother told me, Ryan himself would never forgive himself for hurting a woman. The schizophrenia keeps him from having a healthy relationship.

    LG: “You are beautiful Brenda.”

    Thank you.

    LG: “I so hope you will put all this to rest.”

    Yes, I feel in a much better space now, thank you!

  209.  #209dorothea on July 20, 2010 at 10:07 am

    “honestly i feel f*cked up for it but getting this text has me feeling angry and judgmental. what do you think?”

    we’ll see how that lands with him.

    i am going to have to be honest over the next week about every yucky feeling if i can’t just keep it to myself and process it, i guess.

    i feel scared.


  210.  #210dorothea on July 20, 2010 at 10:09 am

    He says “I was thinking about you and wanted to tell you that.”

    um ok.

    not thinking about me enough to freaking tell me when we are going to the airport, or to call me, or make plans to see me…

    i feel triggered as hell

  211.  #211Brenda on July 20, 2010 at 10:12 am


    I feel bewildered. He sent you a very nice, thoughtful text. Why couldn’t you just text back, “Thank you! BTW, what time are we going to the airport? I need to make plans for the trip.”

  212.  #212Brenda on July 20, 2010 at 10:13 am

    Maybe you feel anxiety about the trip? Is it his text message or the thoughts about close quarters and grandma in the picture?

  213.  #213dorothea on July 20, 2010 at 10:18 am

    because he said he would tell me last night when we are going, and he didn’t, and i am feeling fed up with his not doing what he’ll say he’ll do.

    and i feel so turned off by it. it’s like a total b*tch move. like he is too much of a b*tch to give me something real and concrete in terms of attention or follow through so i get the crumbs of a text.

    i am telling him now i feel turned off.

    i think it’s really important that i let men know i feel turned off instead of trying to make them wrong to avoid having to take responsibility for my own feelings. it’s scary to think you might discourage a man by saying this makes me feel turned off. but it’s probably more discouraging and damaging to just go on and on about how angry you are and how wrong he is.

  214.  #214Tina on July 20, 2010 at 10:33 am

    Dorothea, I’ve had to say to truckman a lot of “I dont wants” Im going away with truckman for a week.

  215.  #215dorothea on July 20, 2010 at 10:35 am

    I feel tired of saying the same I don’t wants over and over. I don’t want to be left hanging when you say you’re going to do something.

    It’s not like i ASK him to do something. he says he will and then he doesn’t follow through about it. I end up havign to ask him, and most of the time he hasn’t actually done it, and then his offer to give to me because me reminding him to give to me.

    f*cking stupid.

  216.  #216lm on July 20, 2010 at 10:43 am

    by the end of my last relationship i became the master (mistress??) of ‘don’t wants’! they actually made me realise that i…didn’t want…what i had. so to verbalise it made me really connect with the emotion and have to act on it. it changed me, not him. when it got to the point of ‘i don’t want a relationship in which i am made fun of, dismissed and ignored’ then i realised i had to bail!

    day 6! i feel mostly great (with little bits of sad thrown in!)!

  217.  #217dorothea on July 20, 2010 at 10:44 am

    *and then his offer to give to me BECOMES me reminding him to give to me.

    it’s stuff that i actually count on. like how we are getting to the airport, or sometimes it’s just concert tix or something.

  218.  #218Brenda on July 20, 2010 at 10:46 am

    I feel scared for the territory you are going into. I would feel shocked if I sent a nice message about how much someone means to me and then get a negative response. Are you overreacting?

  219.  #219Tina on July 20, 2010 at 11:00 am

    Truckman cooked here at my house, he left a pile of garbage spilling over the top of the garbage can, I really couldnt care who takes out the garbage really but I said oh, the garbage can looks like it will bust soon, the first time he didnt hear me, he was busy doing something then I said it again, he finally asked where the bags where and I pointed over there and he did half of the dishes , yes half, he siad, Im trying to help you out, I said I need a shower, I feel tense and kinda sticky from the hot sun.

    Dorothea, ok so dont do the “I dont wants” Ive told truckman , I like HEARING that. I used to feel uncomfortable when he said things like, I loveyou or I miss you, the truth is, I dont miss him and I have no idea if I love him nor do I feel comfortable saying I love you to him. so I feel way better just saying I like HEARING it, I feel all warm and fuzzy inside 🙂

    I feel resistence about going away for a week with him, I dont know why. A week is a long stretch for me lol. I love my alone time way to much. He wants to live with me blah! after our week together but I told him, I dont feel like talking about it right now. yes it will change my life finacially , that’s a bonus , I just feel unsure, if thats a feeling dunno…

  220.  #220Tina on July 20, 2010 at 11:06 am

    The thing is all my “dont wants” are being heard or I should say I feel heard now what?

  221.  #221Simply Shannon on July 20, 2010 at 11:26 am

    Dorothea: I think this is your brain trying to protect you from going. It’s ramping up the issue so that you can just say “f-ck it” and not go. KWIM? Sit with the uncomfortable feeling. You are not going to die. What you could say…

    [i]I feel very uncomfortable not knowing the details of our trip. I wish I was one of those spur of the moment, grab my bags and go kind of girl, but I’m not. I don’t want to worry. This feels bad. What do you think?[/i]

  222.  #222Simply Shannon on July 20, 2010 at 11:29 am

    I’m guessing this is all coming up because you feel afraid about traveling with him. It’s not really that he hasn’t told you the details (which would bug me too). It’s just one of the things adding to your discomfort.


    What is the fear about? Look there and maybe some of this tension will resolve.

  223.  #223Simply Shannon on July 20, 2010 at 11:34 am

    Oops Just getting through some of the other posts. Dorothea post 203: I just am not feeling totally comfortable being “serious” with him yet, and being in close quarters in another town for a week feels like i’m being forced into serious. i guess i have to talk to him about this, lol, f*ck!!!

    This is where I think the anger and fear reside. If I had this conversation hanging over my head, I’d be feeling pretty afraid about the trip too. Like “oh goodness, when is this going to come up and ruin the mood of the whole trip? When are we going to have this argument?” That’s a lot of pressure to put on yourself. If the “serious” conversation comes up and you’re not ready for it, you can always say “I love you and I’m having so much fun with you. I don’t want to talk about serious stuff right now. What do you think?”

  224.  #224Tina on July 20, 2010 at 11:39 am

    Im not liking 24/7 up your @#$ together time blah! for a week !!!!!

  225.  #225Tina on July 20, 2010 at 11:43 am

    I have to go shopping soon for some new clothes to take with me. Im feeling excited about the trip really, Im just feeling hesitate about the “what ifs’ what if we argue, I cant run away well I could but that would ruin the whole trip. There is so much for me to do before I leave in a few days.

  226.  #226Tina on July 20, 2010 at 11:45 am

    I have to wax my eyebrows, buy new panties um, at least one new dress and a shorts, im thinking denim shorts.

  227.  #227Lucy on July 20, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    Okay, so late last night I wrote that I hope garden guy mentions meeting very soon . . . and this morning, that’s exactly what he did. 🙂 I feel good about that, but I also still feel the other things I wrote last night:

    i feel terribly sad that all the attractive men bombed for various reasons. i feel very very sad about the men who apparently don’t want me – tn man, lit prof, winker hottie (i feel like calling him gypsy boy but i don’t want to make that true). i feel kinda good maybe sorta about the new guy – garden guy – i feel a really good vibe about him and hope that he mentions meeting very soon so i can test that. he feels good and safe and a little interesting but not exciting and fun and cute like tn and wh.

    So, if “hoping” worked with what I wanted from garden guy, maybe it will work with other things. Therefore, I hope to hear from TN man again very soon, and I hope that WH contacts me again and wants to meet me. While I’m at it, I suppose I can hope that garden guy actually turns out to be fun, exciting, and cute when I meet him in person. Yeah, I hope that. Funny thing, I just realized — garden guy has been talking about hope a lot in his emails to me — he said that hope is what makes him tick. Hmmm, coincidence?

  228.  #228Lucy on July 20, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    p.s. I hope lit prof contacts me out of the blue and asks me on a date. 🙂

  229.  #229Denise on July 20, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    I feel tired of saying the same I don’t wants over and over. I don’t want to be left hanging when you say you’re going to do something.

    It’s not like i ASK him to do something. he says he will and then he doesn’t follow through about it. I end up havign to ask him, and most of the time he hasn’t actually done it, and then his offer to give to me because me reminding him to give to me.

    I hate to say this, and I haven’t read all the posts on this, but just from this post alone I would say this is not a good relationship. Good relationships are EASY, they are fun, they are not made up of fighting and tension and angst. They aren’t made up of continuously saying what you don’t want to him–that just does not sound like a good place to be.

    Good, solid, mature relationships are not easy to find, but once you get them, then that’s the cat’s meow as they say :). Don’t settle for less or go through contortions to put a square peg in a round hole–just move on and have faith that as you get stronger and smarter about yourself and men and relationships, the universe will reward you with the perfect man for you.

  230.  #230Lucy on July 20, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    I agree, Denise. It feels similar to what Shannon was going through with Fab Kisser. I feel bad reading about relationships that are such a struggle already at very early stages. I don’t want a relationship like that. It feels awful, tight in my chest. I feel confused.

    Btw, Shannon, I feel curious about how things are going with Fab Kisser….

  231.  #231Renee on July 20, 2010 at 2:00 pm


    I’ve been there with the guy who makes promises to do things and doesn’t do them so then you feel like the bad guy for calling them on their behavior! Especially if it’s something like phoning when he said he would…grrr…that triggers me!

  232.  #232lm on July 20, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    Me too! I felt so trapped. He didn’t follow through on any plans that took more than 5 minutes to plan, but he’d plan canoe trips with his buddies every weekend. But he’d make vague plans for traveling but would freak out if I inquired about the details. I felt stressed out!

  233.  #233Lucy on July 20, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    When my kids were younger, my ex-h told them repeatedly (for many years) that he was going to take them to Disney World “this year.” Never happened. 🙁

    What scares me is that he wasn’t like that until after we got married. 🙁

  234.  #234Lucy on July 20, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    Okay, I finally wrote to four hour guy:

    Hi T. It feels good that we have some special things in common. I feel a little unsure, though, about continuing to email if we are definitely never going to meet. What do you think? Lucy

    I don’t care too much how he responds. I would feel quite surprised if he says, “ok, let’s meet” — and maybe that would be fun — but I’m not particularly drawn to him anyway.

  235.  #235dorothea on July 20, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    um well he broke up with me this afternoon, then we started talking, then things were getting better, until he told me his family all doesn’t like me any more. and now i feel terrified.

  236.  #236Lucy on July 20, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    I am triggered by evan’s email (as usual): “Why Being Attracted to Smarter Men Is the Biggest Reason You’re Single, Lucy.”


    I could go on and on, but I feel too tired.

    I will say that reading that email, I feel



    Haha. I also feel

  237.  #237Lucy on July 20, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    Oh Dorothea! I feel so bad! Oh oh oh. 🙁

  238.  #238Lucy on July 20, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    I do feel glad, though, that evan admitted that he’s a narcissist.

  239.  #239Lucy on July 20, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    However, not all super-smart men are narcissistic, and not all narcissistic men are super-smart.

  240.  #240joan on July 20, 2010 at 4:20 pm


    I feel bad, too. How can we support you?

  241.  #241bea on July 20, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    timely post as this is the email i received this morning from “the boy”.

    “Hey…I’ve tried a few different ways to write this and then tried to call you about it but then only realized I would fuck it all up so here’s my best.

    I don’t think I can spend the time I do with you romantically and sexually. It’s obviously tough because whenever I’m with you, I feel pretty damn good but then when I’m not with you I feel bad about feeling that good. Let me see if I can explain…for whatever reason(s) I feel wrong about being in a relationship with you. It’s probably 100% me, but I just don’t feel comfortable in that idea. So then I spend time with you and I automatically feel the opposite and it confuses the shit out of me but not in a good way. And then I feel horrible in terms of that confusion and it draws me further away from you.

    I do feel that we are good friends that can talk about pretty much anything together and I believe that the more time we spend with each other romantically, the more I find myself drawing away from you in that friendship and again, as good as I might feel in the moment, I don’t want it to become that type of relationship.

    So saying all that and the knowledge that we have a crazy amount of chemistry together when we meet up, I’m cautious about suggesting that we try and just be good friends the next time we see each other. Of course, you’re going to feel a certain way about seeing me too but please believe me when I say to you that I do really like spending time with you and hope that we can continue to do that as friends (maybe with some time for us to process our feelings).

    I’m now re-reading this and hate pretty much everything I’ve said but I feel as if it’s an endless cycle and I don’t want you keep you in the dark anymore. I hope you don’t hate me (or yourself) cause most importantly I don’t regret one part of our relationship…I just feel like this is the best I can come up with going forward.”

    my response was:
    thanks for the offer of friendship. i’m flattered that you want to be friends but that is not something i’m interested in. i’m interested in you romantically and sexually and i can’t handle seeing you as “just a friend”. i know i would feel bad.

    i’ve deleted him from every social network we’re friends on. and i’m pretty much hysterical.

  242.  #242joan on July 20, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    Quote Lucy: I am triggered by evan’s email (as usual):

    OK, feeling confused here … if he “usually” triggers you, why keep reading him? This is one relationship with a guy over which you have absolute control – the power of UNSUBSCRIBE!

  243.  #243Lucy on July 20, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    Joan — Triggering is not necessarily something to avoid — it helps us heal and grow and become more conscious and aware.

    We have “the power of unsubscribe” with almost ALL men in our lives anyway — that doesn’t mean it is good or helpful for us to use it.

    The purpose of CDing is to allow ourselves to be triggered and to use those triggers for our own benefit. So I’m CDing Evan …. for now. 🙂

  244.  #244Renee on July 20, 2010 at 5:20 pm


    I feel bad that he broke up with you and I empathize with you for feeling terrified, but you can do this! You can be ok without this guy — you’ve undoubtedly done it before and made it through ok, and you can do it again.

    It must have hurt to hear him say that his family didn’t like you anymore…I think (and this is judging here, but….) that was mean and immature of him to say.

  245.  #245Laughing goddess on July 20, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    Brenda: thanks for responding. I do understand where you are coming from with both loving him and also seeing evil in him. As your friend though (and I do consider you a friend even though we only know each other through the blog) when I hear about the mind f*cking, I just want to scream NO! Run run run away Brenda!!!

    I don’t know what else to say. I feel lots of live and caring for you and it feels bad to see you hurting. I also trust that you are in your process. Eight months ago, o was in a similar situation and it feels sooooo good to be free of the obsessing and begging for recognition and love. I feel so good to be away from that. I so wish the same for you and I know it is coming. In fact it could happen any minute. Change is powerful and can happen so quickly.

    Much love!

  246.  #246joan on July 20, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    I guess that’s where we differ; I don’t want to invite extra triggers/stress into my life – enough of them find me without me providing my GPS coordinates. So, rather than having Evan crowd out more preferable “suitors” to my inbox, I’d be more inclined to go rock star on him and downgrade his “CD” status to a sort of cyber “booty call” and only see him when I initiated it, at his place 😛

  247.  #247Lucy on July 20, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    That’s cute and clever, Joan. 🙂

    Evan’s not really crowding anybody else out, though.

    I don’t invite extra stress into my life, either — I have plenty of that. Triggers are a little different, though — welcoming and working through triggers actually helps to REDUCE the amount of stress that comes into my life. We will be triggered again and again and again — unconsciously — and it will be STRESSFUL — and we will REACT and create MORE stress in our lives — until we heal those triggers by consciously getting the message they are trying to give us — and then RESPONDING, rather than reacting.

    Healing triggers = Less stress

    It has been amazing for me to experience the truth of this.

  248.  #248Daria on July 20, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    oh joan and lucy that is so cute i really like seeing your interaction.

    i feel afraid when i dont feel smart. i feel not worthwhile.

    i feel sick and terrified of feeling like gagging and disappointment and annoyance – same as i feel with myself – with a man thats stupider than me. ugh

    somehow i think that being smart is the everything in life. something i was blessed with

    i feel sickened to think of me not being smart. yuck

    i can barely stand it

    i feel terrified to be witha not smart man for the same reason

    but yeah i do see that accepting the not smart parts of myself will help me.

    and “that no one will be smart all the time”

    everyone is embarassed

    i feel humiliated to not be smart

    this is a huge trigger for me

  249.  #249Daria on July 20, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    a smart man can be funny and make it exciting for me by keeping me laughing.

    and i want that. i want laughing along with teh cool swag.

    i vote for me i vote for smart i vote for me from the bottom of the bottom less hurricane pit i vote for Daria

    D A R I A

  250.  #250Daria on July 20, 2010 at 7:26 pm

    thats what i want my ideal relationship to look like! a smart man that keeps me laughing ohhh.. can i make a picture of this … i feel afraid.

    i want this.

    for teh record

    i love you. i love you. like mary j blige.

    i fel my insides turning out. i feel sick.

    like with my dad.

    i lost a picture

    and then that would feel fun! in my ideal relationship.

    i want it to be FUN! yeah

    why? cuz i feel depressed! something that makes me feel undepressed is FUN and laughing and a smart man can keep me laughing and

    i want to keep myself laughing and undepressed but i feel weird all by myself

    oh yeah — oops i fell off in a pit there haha –

    so in my ideal relationship i also want coolness… that moment on the side of him in the car where… the breeze is hittin my neck and i got my face set like bonnie to clyde and he looks at me and i can feel him looking and i look like beyonce with my head held high and moving slowly feeling the air…

    and we are both so cool, it feels like mint in the pit of my stomach as it goes down the top of the roller coaster ride

  251.  #251Daria on July 20, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    what do i do everyday. why do i deserve to be here?


    i produce by writing.

    i talk.

    i listen.

    i think.

    i read. i read. a lot.

    i answer emails

    i answer calls

    i am a hub of the universe

  252.  #252Tina on July 20, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    I went out and bought a black sundress with sequins, really cute. He called me while I was shopping, he asked what I was doing, I said shopping , he said well we have to leave at midnight blah blah blah, I said I feel distracted, he siad I was being rude hm. He called to say he was going to do a few things and call me later on tonight when I get back home to talk about the trip, he is planning. midnight tomorrow night , we’ll be on the road. I dont think distracted is a feeling oh well. fugit hehe so what

  253.  #253Daria on July 20, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    Tina sounds like you feel mad and disconnected. but i hate saying tat word disconnected cuz i dont know what it FEELS like blah

    sounds like youre mad tho

    what are you mad about?

  254.  #254Lucy on July 20, 2010 at 9:04 pm

    Ooooh, I feel bad. Four hour guy emailed me back, and it feels bad. I did not expect it to feel bad. I didn’t care about the outcome — but the WAY he wrote this makes me feel bad.

    I had written: “Hi T. It feels good that we have some special things in common. I feel a little unsure, though, about continuing to email if we are definitely never going to meet. What do you think? Lucy.”

    He replied: “I did not know it was definite that we would never meet but I suppose unlikely. Ordinarily I would not have written you at all once we found out there was 5 hours between us but it was so natural and enjoyable. I understand though, it would seem unnatural to keep writing if we would not meet.
    It is too bad, I think we could have been great friends.”

    I feel kinda mad.
    I feel “unheard” — I wrote that I felt UNSURE about continuing. That means NOT SURE. And I said IF we are definitely never going to meet. IF IF IF!!!!

    The last line makes me feel like punching him in the face. It feels like he is trying to manipulate my emotions. Haha, he is succeeding!!!

    This is a guy whose first paragraph of his match profile says I DO NOT WANT AN EMAIL FRIEND!!!!! (I would say, then, that I feel “confused” — but he already explained that I became an exception to his rule because it felt so “natural” and “enjoyable” with me and we had so much in common. I’m just so great and unique that I caused him to break his own rule for me, I should feel special, shouldn’t I? and I should feel bad now because I ruined what could have been “a great friendship” — uh yeah, so if I’m “all that” then why the heck would you not make plans to meet me??? What do ya think, I was born yesterday???

    Phooey on you, Four Hour Man.

    Since there’s nothing to lose, I feel like writing back, “Oooh, it would have felt so great to meet you in person! It would have felt fun and exciting!”


    What is my message here? What am I meant to practice in this situation? I WONDER …… (haha, I remembered, Siena!)

    Ooh, I just got this strong feeling that I am NOT supposed to just say “Next!” and write him off.

    I’m getting a strong feeling that this is a tailor-made opportunity to practice REAL INTIMACY. Not running away from bad feelings.

    Oh! I am meant to NOT USE “the power of unsubscribe” with this guy, just like I didn’t use it with Evan. Thank you, Evan, for helping me PRACTICE not using that power to avoid intimacy!

    So, I wonder, how do I practice intimacy right here right now, with Four Hour Man (who thinks he’s FIVE hour man, hehe) . . . . ? I wonder….

  255.  #255Rori Raye on July 20, 2010 at 9:24 pm

    Bea – Welcome – and WOW – you ROCK!!!! Your response here was magnificent, and if you can stay in this space, you’re going to have what you want very quickly. You’ve done absolutely everything right…relish your hysteria – it’s just a feeling covering up other feelings. Lay down on the floor and process relaxing every single muscle in your body. Let yourself feel, cry, whatever until you get bored with it. Every time it doesn’t work out with a man – it’s not right, and every time it happens and you move on, you get closer to your Mr. Right. It’s the total truth. You can do this. Love, Rori

  256.  #256lm on July 20, 2010 at 9:28 pm

    my super-recent-ex (of less than a week) turned around and walked out of the bar i was in tonight with my friend when he saw me there. i feel…strong for not reacting…and sort of proud for just sitting, allowing myself to feel the panic and the sadness and the anger (he wasn’t very kind to me). ugh.

  257.  #257lm on July 20, 2010 at 9:30 pm


    hang in there. good on you for deleting him! it’s the best thing to do!

  258.  #258Sweetpea on July 20, 2010 at 10:18 pm


    Haha. I read Evan’s letter today and thought, “Hmm. I don’t care about a guy being smarter than me. Never have. He just can’t be an idiot.”

    So, I’m really conceited I guess because I don’t think there are any guys out there smarter than me. LOL! Well, that’s a joke of course.

    I simply want a guy who is on a similar level to me intellectually. He doesn’t have to be smarter. I didn’t even finish reading it. I’ve read that you should marry a man you have great conversations with because that is the only thing that won’t fade with time. So he better be pretty dang smart, but he doesn’t have to be a genius. I don’t think Einstein was that great a conversationalist. haha. I didn’t even finish reading the letter. Whatever, Evan. I bet your wife’s not a dumbass & you seem plenty happy with her. We haven’t heard from her, but she seems to be happy with you, too. Mr. in your head, hard to please, whatever else you said.

  259.  #259Sweetpea on July 20, 2010 at 10:37 pm

    So… many of the comments on here are triggering me tonight. Not in a bad way, mind you, but I’m finding that I’m having a hard time not running away from Stepping Up Man. Things are just feeling so intense and little things irritate me. My sister (who has Rori’s book but hasn’t read it and doesn’t practice it) is even telling me it’s a fear reaction.

    I just got off of the phone with him. I was giving him the fine point on a conversation on a mutual interest that I just had with my dad and he told me that he’s on the phone all day and would rather talk to me in person so was going to let me go. Hmmm… really?! Wow. I feel annoyed and irritated. And of course I didn’t use a feeling message, I just said, “ok. Bye.”

    The funny thing is that I’ve noticed that as masculine as he is, when I start closing down, he starts getting feminine on me. But as soon as I concentrate on unzipping my heart, he mans right back up. It’s really interesting, because I can literally see the change in him almost immediately from when I’m practicing the tools and when I’m not.

    I’m really annoyed with him right now though. And other little stupid stuff irritates me too. Until I realize I’m closed off. Then I concentrate on being open and boom! Like magic… no longer irritated. He’s been incredibly patient and considering all the crap that’s been going on in my life from pretty much immediately after we met, that directly affects most of the time we spend together, I feel surprised that he’s stuck with me through it. There are lots of guys out there who wouldn’t.

    He’s a really, really good guy who I have great conversations with, who’s a giver, who cooks for me, who takes great care of me (and my dog), who grants me my every desire and I’m feeling annoyed that he has to get the last little bit of ice cream out of the bowl using his finger. Can anyone say “nitpicky?” I think I can.

    Any thoughts/suggestions anyone? Is it just fear? Is it that he is just too good to me and I’m not used to it? I really enjoy spending time with him and he is soooo stepping up. So WHAT is my dealio?

  260.  #260dorothea on July 20, 2010 at 11:13 pm

    today felt stupid and bad
    i got dumped in an email full of complaints i had never heard before
    then i said i don’t want to be dumped in an email. i don’t want this. i would feel better hearing your complaints for the first time in a way that allows me to actually consider them.

    he took back dumping me.

    he told me his family has a low opinion of me now because we were fighting on the phone in their presence and he was upset, and now they are worried.

    i said some over the line mean things to him when we were fighting, and he told his brother the details, and now his brother doesn’t like me. i haven’t even met them. I met his parents once. his mom was supposed to drive us to the airport tomorrow but my boss offered to do it instead because he suggested that it might feel better for me. my LI agreed that it might be “tense” with his mom.

    well that’s just great.

    i did bring this on myself by making hateful and rude comments when we were fighting. i wouldn’t like me either.

    now the words about his brother “he doesn’t like you” are ringing in my ears.

    LI just left, he walked me home from work and spent some quality time with me and bought me dinner and then we took a nap. now i have to pack for my trip. it seems like as a couple we just grew and he is stepping up more to make arguments better, but i feel like a bad humiliated dog who has been exposed for a carpet sh*tter.

    i feel spent and sad.

    we’re both going to go on this vacation anyway. he is excited again. he feels like everything is better again. he has been contacting his family trying to save face for us or something. i don’t freaking know

    i feel humiliated about my lil anger management issue.


    i don’t want to talk about this anymore.

  261.  #261Renee on July 21, 2010 at 3:52 am

    Rori — I’m almost finished with the last dvd in your “Committment Blueprint” program and I’m really enjoying it! I just listened to the interview with Christian Carter and I have to admit, I sometimes feel frustrated with him because I feel like he basically says, “Be a beautiful, cool, fun woman who doesn’t lose her temper and he’ll love you”…it felt good to read your recent post on male relationship coaches and how they can help us — I agree that there is something to be learned there, but I feel your approach is far more instructive and I feel hopeful it will work for me!


    I can so identify with where you are with four-hour guy…I can’t tell you the number of guys who have initiated contact w/me online who ended up backing out when it came time to actually meet. On two occasions, we actually had dates set up when I got wimpy little texts explaining that they couldn’t make it…one guy said he’d been through a rough break-up recently and realized he just wasn’t ready (yah, right!) and the other guy said he just didn’t think he could deal with the distance (it was about 4 hours). In the first case, I guess I was a little guilty of leaning forward since he had been hinting that he wanted to go out with me for about a week and calling me nearly everyday when I finally asked him when we were going to meet. So, perhaps, in that case, I carry some of the blame because I didn’t let him be the man.

    In the 2nd case, though, I made it a point to NOT be the one doing the asking and again, he was txting/calling everyday. I felt so unworthy and rejected when he told me he couldn’t deal with the distance — well maybe he should have thought of that before he started writing me!!!

    Anyway — now that I’ve been reading Rori, I can’t help but wonder if I would have been more appealing if I’d used feeling messages, but what’s done is done, so I guess there’s no point wondering. But in your case, I really like the feeling message you sent — it was upbeat, engaging and yet didn’t sound clingy/needy…I’ll be interested to see how he responds.

    Sweetpea — it’s interesting to hear that as soon as you “unzip your heart” you get a more engaged reaction from your man. I’m still working on using feeling messages (I guess we’re all in process here) and haven’t really had much opportunity to use them with CD#1 because he’s been pretty loose with the contact this week. As I mentioned in another post, he lives 5 hours away and we’ve spent 2 wknds together, the last of which was at his house with all his friends. But since then (we slept together that last wknd), he hasn’t been writing as often as he did previously…I’m sure, if I asked him about it, he’d just say he’s been busy with work, but I’m definitely not going to ask him about it. I feel somewhat used as if now he’s gotten what he wanted (sex), he’s not as interested in pursuing me, but I’m trying to trust that he’s just a good guy who is still trying to determine whether we’re a good fit, which, I guess, is ok, except I’d prefer him to be more sure right now!

    He sent me a txt msg yesterday after 2 days with no contact, asking me how my week was going. I’m feeling like doing something to subtly send him the msg that his backing off is not acceptable, so I’m leaning waaaaay back and I’m either not going to answer at all, or wait 2 days before I do.

    When/if I do write him back, however, I don’t know what to say, though. I could just say, “Oh, my week’s going great — I feel optimistic about work right now because I’ve had several contacts from new potential clients” and that is true, but it’s also not sharing what I’m feeling about “us” with him. What I’m feeling about “us” is that our connection is slipping away and I don’t want that. But I feel like if I write that to him, that I may as well be asking, “Why haven’t you called me?”. I suspect Rori would say to ‘let it go’ and if he’s not going to step up, he’s not, but I feel like I got on the “feeling messages” boat a little late for our relationship and I haven’t been able to experiment with him using those types of messages yet, so I’d like to see if he opens up a little more emotionally if I do get the chance to start using feeling messages. What do you think?

    Dorothea — I’m glad you guys seem to be working things out and that this experience seems to have brought you closer together. This may sound weird, but I actually look forward to the next conflict in one of my relationships to see how I do with expressing myself in feeling messages…I feel hopeful that I’ll have the courage to do so and that the result is that we grow closer.

  262.  #262Renee on July 21, 2010 at 4:09 am

    I have a new theory about when/if to have sex with a man…I’m struggling with feeling used because it seems like most guys I date back off once we sleep together. I haven’t been initiating conversations about ‘us’ and ‘where this relationship is heading’ (although in one case, the guy initiated the conversation and I told him I was interested in pursuing a relationship with him, which he agreed with), but perhaps I’m still sending out a clingy/needy vibe of some sort afterwards. With this last guy (long distance guy) I definitely felt cool and laid back all wknd, so I really don’t think I was sending out that vibe, but I guess it’s possible.

    Anyway, I’ve heard/read on several occasions that it takes 3 weeks to build a new habit — whether it’s the habit of exercising, waking up earlier, or whatever, so I’m thinking maybe 3 weeks is the magic amount of time to let a guy get used to pursuing you before you sleep with him.

    Usually, if i like someone, we start seeing each other several times a week, and I wait about 5 dates before sleeping with them, but I’m still getting that “backing off” reaction within days of our 1st sexual encounter. Maybe I should just make it a policy to wait 30 days (like a bill to be paid in advance, lol). It will probably be difficult to wait a full month if I really like a guy and am attracted to him, but I don’t like the feeling that I’ve been used and I want to protect myself. I wish I had it in me to tell someone I was going to wait until “marriage is on the table” like Rori did, but I don’t know if I do — partially because I get very curious to know what the man’s like in bed (if he’s bad, I’d rather know before I invest a lot of emotion in him — I dated a guy around Christmas this year who was HORRIBLE and impotent and I probably would have invested at least a month or 2 with him growing closer if I hadn’t discovered on date 4 that he was that bad), but also because I feel like a man might feel really pressured if I told him that…what do you think?

  263.  #263Renee on July 21, 2010 at 4:11 am

    Btw — what I meant was that they back off emotionally, not physically. Once we’ve slept together, they usually tell me how amazing and sexy I am (and they certainly seem interested in having a sexual relationship with me), but it’s the “emotional” back-up I’m feeling.

  264.  #264Brenda on July 21, 2010 at 8:26 am

    LG, RE: #243

    That night my major purpose was to get him out of my system. I am feeling like I took a huge step toward that end. And you ladies are helping me to see the relationship in perspective, as the unhealthy relationship it WAS.

    I still struggle with residual feelings, but I am really keying in on what Rori said in her newest article on the next-most-recent blog thread! My purpose is to focus on me and on loving myself, in a healthy way. I feel like I’m in a much better space now in my middle! Yeah, Rori! Yeah, Sirens!

    Thank you so much for surrounding me with love and care while I am finally working thru these things that have plagued me all my life!


  265.  #265Brenda on July 21, 2010 at 8:44 am


    As I understand it, it’s pretty universal that men withdraw after making love. They feel vulnerable, and they have to regroup. We, as women, handle our emotions better than men. After making love, we want more, more, more! But they typically back up and start feeling heavy emotions that they need to process. Something like that.

  266.  #266Nikita on July 21, 2010 at 10:08 am


    I think waiting for sex as long as possible is the safest bet unless all you want is sex…..in that case be a cowboy so to speak…..but if you’re feeling vulnerable and dependent on the outcome……be strong on the inside by knowing and enforcing your boundaries. If what you’ve done isn’t feeling good try something different…..I wait months at a minimum. I feel more secure with the bond a man and I have formed….so that even if things don’t turn out the way I intended we’ve forged an underlying friendship and respect for each other that opens up communication without a lot of effort on my part. I wouldn’t expect a relationship after three weeks of knowing someone because we copulated. But there definitely are times when people get physical quickly and still stay together for years or more but that is a chance too risky to take for my taste.

    I read somewhere a woman checks in with her feelings before sex and a man doesn’t know his feelings until after.

    Explains a lot of the pulling back that happens on the male side. Maybe he doesn’t like what he’s feeling and hasn’t invested enough in the woman to give it much consideration.

  267.  #267Sahara on July 21, 2010 at 10:36 am

    Wow Im kinda in this NSA situation, and Im reading Rory’s response letter word by word. Reflecting on this makes me feel like I wanna detach myself somewhat from this situation Im in, even though Im lovin every min I spend with him.

  268.  #268Sahara on July 21, 2010 at 10:58 am

    Sorry Rori for mispelling yr name! What advise would you give for women that suddenly find themselves in a place where its NSA and suddenly more deep feelings develop? Should I focus on no sex and just casually date. The good news is that he has not come to my place yet. We are meeting in a couple of days to have a casual date at the cinema, and Im thinging NOT to invite him to my place. He had just recently moved in with his sister for a while until he finds other accomadaton. So if I dont make my place accessable we cant get intimate.

  269.  #269Simply Shannon on July 21, 2010 at 11:00 am

    Nikita: I feel really good reading what you wrote to Renee. Thank you.

  270.  #270Brenda on July 21, 2010 at 11:45 am

    I find a lot of value in taking the time and effort to get to know a man on a non-sexual level. It weeds out the ones who say they want a relationship but really just want booty call. It tests their inner strength to see if they are going to cheat on you over time. It shows what they’re made of. It gives the relationship time to mature organically. I really value my friendships with men that are non-sexual, and they tend to be far deeper and more long-lasting. I also value the self-control I’ve developed by denying myself.

    I have at least as much libido as anyone, and I am not a prude or a saint. I am not saying any of that judgmentally. I have had sex…I have tried relationships both ways. I feel really safe getting to know multiple men and keeping my options open like this. I like it a lot. But I’d rather just be married to a wonderful man and make love AT LEAST once a day!!!

  271.  #271Nikita on July 21, 2010 at 12:17 pm


    I feel really appreciated with the way you expressed yourself to me 🙂 thank you.

  272.  #272Lucy on July 21, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    Sweetpea, it does sound a little nitpicky, but only you know for sure …. You have to be willing to love and accept every part of him if it’s gonna work longterm, right?

    “The funny thing is that I’ve noticed that as masculine as he is, when I start closing down, he starts getting feminine on me. But as soon as I concentrate on unzipping my heart, he mans right back up.”

    That feels both bad and good to read: Bad, because I know I closed down many times with TN man because I felt afraid of getting too close — and maybe that’s what went wrong there. Good, because if I can learn to NOT close down when I feel afraid, I’ll do better in the next situation…..

  273.  #273Lucy on July 21, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Brenda, re: 263 — I actually find that *I* am the one who withdraws after sex, and the GUY wants more more more. . . I wonder what that means…..

  274.  #274Brenda on July 21, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    Lucy, do you close down at those times?

  275.  #275Denise on July 22, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    @Nikita #264

    I liked this post a lot, thanks!

  276.  #276Jeannette on July 22, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    Lucy, are the guys selfish with their love making?

  277.  #277bea on July 23, 2010 at 6:23 am


    Thank you. I appreciate your comment and your advice. Your support means a lot to me. Thank you and thank you for the blog. It feels safe and grounding at a time when I am feeling unmoored.


  278.  #278Rori Raye on July 23, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Sahara – if you mean No Strings Attached as something you’ve TALKED about – then, if you want more – you have to talk about THAT. If you have a hidden agenda, it’s going to wreck your vibe. Love, Rori

  279.  #279Lucy on July 23, 2010 at 10:24 pm

    Hmmm. Was there a comment removed from this thread? There was one in my inbox that I don’t see here, from sadandquiet….

  280.  #280Sweetpea on July 25, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Hey Lucy! It’s been a couple of days since you made your comment, but I’ve been following on my phone & it’s such a hassle to comment. I agree with you that I need to be able to accept all of him if it’s going to be long-term. The problem being that I think I’m nit-picking because I’m scared senseless. Yeah. I don’t think that’s exaggerating – I’m that scared.

    I really feel like I’ve come up against a wall & I’m just having the hardest time receiving from him right now. He’s still giving, but I feel like I’ve turned into an ice statue. I don’t know if I can take anymore (and by “take” I mean receive). It’s just too much. I deep trying to unzip my heart, but it feels like the zipper is on automatic re-zip mode.

    So I’m just taking some time away from him right now to see what happens. I’m still spending some time with him, just not nearly as much – about a quarter of what I used to. I never saw him at all last week & just a few hours yesterday. With time away from him, I’m starting to feel better about things. Although we went to dinner with a couple of friends of his last night & it came up during conversation (he brought it up) that the last time he saw them (ealuer this year – they. Live about 40 miles away) he had a woman with him. I felt uncomfortable with that & immediately the ,?s went to work in my head. It was good to feel something though, cuz lately I’ve been feeling pretty numb.

    Ugh! This trying to stay open is so hard!

  281.  #281Sweetpea on July 25, 2010 at 11:46 am

    !?s was supposed to be NVs – I’m posting by phone. It really IS a hassle. Lol

  282.  #282Melissa on July 29, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    WHAT NOW?!? Please help me sirens!
    I don’t know what to do & I am trying to pull myself together & tap into that “siren” in me, but things are spiraling too fast! I dated a guy seriously for a year then after that year was up, he told me he just wasn’t in love with me, but we’ve continued to see each other (I allowed myself this imaginary relationship *kick*) for this entire year following the “break-up”. I knew I had get my butt in gear & try circular dating, so I signed up for an on-line site. He discovered this & set up a profile of his own ON THE SAME SITE! I can see when I go to check messages on there that he is online & even that he’s am IM user! It’s shattering me to pieces & I just don’t know what to do. We work at the same place & when we do have interaction, I really want to be able to shift my vibe so he can sense the change & not come off as cold or fake. I know I will have to see him at least a couple more times one on one to resolve some issues (I have stuff at his place still & he owes me money), but how best can I maintain my composure? Part of me REALLY wants to be snippy AND snoopy about his online endeavors, but I know I can’t do that. I believe that if I simply tell him that when I see that he is now actively seeking someone else, it crushes me, he will either tell me that “I told you so” (not in those words, I’m sure) or that since I’m doing it, why shouldn’t he. I know that he still has a high level of attraction for me, but he doesn’t “see us as compatible” & I know he does care about my feelings to a certain degree. It seems like he just started this dating because he saw that I was doing it, but it feels so horrible. I really want to try & re-connect with him, but I know with things right now, I have to practice some patience & get my confidence in the right place first. So in the meantime, how do I do that when this is all right in my face every day?! I am so frantic & AFRAID. I can’t help but hear that voice of need & desperation SCREAMING at me & I don’t know how to quiet it. I can’t help but think that as he’s online, he might just be chatting with the woman who will replace me. The one who has a hold of her confidence & knows how to sing her siren song without her voice cracking. I KNOW I can get there eventually, but right now is that crucial stage where I could really use some fellow siren’s support & advice to keep me from flying of the beam completely! *whew*

  283.  #283Rori Raye on July 31, 2010 at 10:25 am

    Melissa – Welcome – and I remember doing exactly this…the man in my story was in my circle of friends and pivotal at the theater company I was involved in…it was humiliation central. There is only one way out — completely go authentic. Tell him it feels horrible to be around him, to see him, to feel him next to you, to smell him and not be with him romantically. Tell him you’re only dating to recover from the blow of being told you’re not loved the way you want after a year in relationship. Tell him you don’t know what to do or how to handle it…that you can’t keep your composure and that it feels best to just stay away from him. And then you cry at home and Circular Date until you can experience for yourself how you are in this situation and how you can get out of it. We’ll help. I’m going to jump off of this…Love, Rori

  284.  #284Melissa on August 1, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Thank you SO much! I feel pretty proud of myself for essentially doing just that. I told him that he is like this delicious cup of coffee sitting in front of me. I can stir in the cream & add some sugar, but then I’m not allowed to drink it. I still really enjoy the smell of it though, but it lingering under my nose is a torture that I should not put myself through.
    He did tell me he misses me & keeps trying to pull me back in, so I’m trying REALLY hard to keep leaning back. I know that’s the only way to see if he’s going to step forward more.

  285.  #285lm on August 1, 2010 at 8:56 pm


    what you said was awesome. i gave a similar speech to a guy i saw for two years who was talking about marriage but seemed cold, mean, and flat-out weird lately…i broke up with him because it turns out he was waaay bad for me.

    i cut off contact but he tried to stay friends, said that he needed me in his life…i told him that i still had feelings for him, that it would feel painful and weird for me to be around him socially, that i wasn’t interested in male friends right now.

    i felt so brave! it was messy, but it was awesome.

  286.  #286Brenda on August 1, 2010 at 9:51 pm

    Im and Melissa,

    I sure don’t know how you find the strength to say stuff like that. I just have such a hard time letting Ryan go. I am still in love with him. I don’t want to be more than friends until he gets better inside, but I still miss him unbearably.

    More power to ya!

  287.  #287Melissa on August 3, 2010 at 9:11 pm

    Well, my strength comes & goes. It is SOOooo HARD! As I mentioned before, I have to see him at work & he seriously lays on the charm when he want to! He wanted me to come over the other night & bring ice cream (get myself a pint of whatever I want), then offered to throw in a back rub. We never had a bad relationship as far as fighting or anything, he still is way attracted to me, just not “in love” with me. It is SO scary to think of him dating anyone else & that terrifies me most of all, but gradually I am building up me self esteem, so when he DOES see me, I can be flirty without being fake & not turn into a pile off blubbering goo with no inner strength. Today I saw him & had to cry, but when I did, I held onto the counter for support & focused on the “dance position” & then on keeping my heart in my body beating only for me, letting my anxiety drop into my pelvis & somehow I was able maintain my composure & walk away after telling him to have a good evening. It was not that easy for me, but I also keep thinking about the recent email from Rori that states “But when you show a man, and demonstrate to
    him that you can feel YOUR feelings, that you
    love and embrace them, and that you’re
    COMFORTABLE and OKAY with your feelings in a
    non-judgmental way – then he thinks you’re a
    “There is simply not another woman on the planet who could ever compete with you once you have this connection with a man.”
    I look at all his past texts & think about his wanting to do so much for me to keep me in his life & it gives me confidence that only makes me more appealing.
    There are definitely some times I take a step back, but it’s becoming two or three steps forward & one back instead of the other way around!
    So… more power to ALL of us! We can share & help empower each other. 🙂

  288.  #288Melissa on August 9, 2010 at 8:37 pm

    Today, I saw him at work a few times & felt so queasy. After work, I was contacted on Facebook by him & we shared some links & such & after a few IMs I told him “You know, I think I feel comfortable being an online friend with you. I enjoy chatting & playing games, but being in your physical presence still makes me feel too anxious & yucky”

  289.  #289Robin on August 16, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    So…I’ve been dating a guy since April 12th. We were seeing each other about once a week. But lately I haven’t heard from him as much…of course it’s when I started having feelings for him. I know that the reason is because I started controlling the relationship. We used to always stay in the city where he lived to go out. One weekend my kids were gone, so I asked him to come out by me in the burbs. Since then I haven’t seen him much. I also continued the asking and asked to meet for drinks, to go to a Cubs game with me. Not realizing that I was screwing up big time! The last two times I did ask him…he coulnd’t come out becuase he was traveling. I don’t think he was lying as he does travel quite a bit and always let me know when he would be back in town and such. So here is my question…can I fix this? How do I get him back to calling me more. I think he is perfect for me. If I don’t contact him and wait will he contact me again? Or is this done? I’m so heartbroken because it’s been 6 yrs since I’ve been divorced and it took me that long to find this one and I finally do and I mess up..unknowingly. Also, Let me say that I am an successful, attractive, independent and in shape women and don’t get asked out on many dates. In 5 yrs…I think I’ve been approached and asked out 4 times. I’ve tried online dating, but find that guys my age aren’t interested in me. This was the first guy in years that I actually connected with and had a lot of common with that was actually my age. Any advice would be appreciated.

  290.  #290Rori Raye on August 16, 2010 at 11:06 pm

    Robin…there’s way more to online dating, and getting out in the world and hanging where there are men than you’ve given your time and energy to….Circular Date! Love, Rori

  291.  #291Jay on October 4, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    A man won’t know how much he loves a girl when the girl is always there.

  292.  #292Ann Marie on July 27, 2011 at 10:35 am

    Dear Rorie
    I’ve been separated for 6 mo. tho” the marriage has been over for a long time. It was my decison to leave. I’m 59, looking for work and having such a hard time finding any men to date. I live in Calgary that is known for having more men than women. Everywhwere I go (dances, singles groups) there are 2X the women. I’ve been chatting with a guy online (long dsitance relationship) and he was chasing me and then I lost my power and fell head over heels. I am a real sucker for charmers and he was. I felt like we were connected as I was using feeling statements and at first he responded but then he would just say “I understand” which felt like he was humoring me. The chatting became on and off and then he convinced me to have phone sex. He told me to see other men and that confused me. (I would if I could) So he didn’t contact me for 2 weeks and meanwhile he was chatting online so I lost it and we had a fight (we had several) and he’s taken me off his faves.. I feel like such a fool – one part of me wants him and keeps wanting to find a way back and yet I know I’m being needy. I feel so desparate for a man and it just seems like I repel men even tho I am attractive and look quite young looking for my age. Feeling very miserable and confused.
    I hope you can shed some light. AM

  293.  #293Crystal Richardson on September 21, 2012 at 3:57 am

    I met this great guy through eharmony. We talked for hours on the phone before we even met. We both agreed that we had a connection before we even met. When we met it was instant attraction and he told me he felt like he had known me for ever and I agreed. It eventually became more than a connection on a physical level but a intellectual level. We had so much in common, he and I had been in comas at different times in our lives and we both had chronic pain issues. We laughed all the time. We are both in our 40’s so there was no games. I could pretty much tell him anything. I think he started to notice my feelings where involving deeper after a few month which they where. We had an imazing sex life and for the first time in my life I knew what real sex was and making love. He is an amazing man and he always told me how much I mad him laugh. We went away on vacation together and everything was going great and then one day it seemed like something was wrong. I asked him via email which was a mistake right there and he came back with silly things like housecleaning stuff and of course I got angry because I wanted to here good stuff about me not bad. I know it had nothing to do with housecleaning. I do not know if things where getting to serious for him to quick or what? If he needed his space I wished he had asked for it! So, I became very angry and hurt and of course I have a temper so he did not respond and just said well, you just ended what we had. I kept emailing him I was sorry and maybe I overeacted but I wanted honesty not something about my housekeeping skills, so eventually after a week of bugging him, he emailed back and said he was reading my emails or wading through them, but then he did not email back for like 5 days and I got even more angry and scared because I felt like he was leaving me hanging. We had just had an incredible , fun and intimate weekend together and nothing seemed wrong with him. But in this last email he said he was done and goodbye and to stop contacting him . He did not even want to meet in person. I know my bugging him and not giving him space pushed him away. I did promise I would give him space but he never actually asked for it and I thought why is this man who said he cared for me alot and enjoyed my company now not contacting. I mean I know he liked his alone time which I understood but you dont have to ignore me when you know I am hurting and in love, which he knew. Do you think if I leave him alone that he will come around. He has 2 ex wifes and 4 kids and has alot on his plate. Plus, he lost his job with microsoft which he made alot of money. I think maybe the stress contributed to this mess.IHe new I was vulnerable from my coma and said he understood if I seemed clingy at times. I almost died and when I met him . I just knew he was the one I was suppose to be with. I am hoping once things settle down he will realize how good we where together and how cool of a women I am and call. I am going to send him photos from our last trip and maybe seeing my face will trigger something inside him.

  294.  #294Crystal Richardson on September 21, 2012 at 4:03 am

    Also, I do not want to circular date because I am 42 years old and never been married. I use to be a flight attendant and I did plenty of partying and circular dating been there and done that ! I just want to fix what happened. I know I am met to be with him and i hope once I am not around he will realize I was pretty cool despite my temper.

  295.  #295liz on January 13, 2013 at 9:44 am

    i have been with a man for 21 yrs we have split up 2 times 1 time he said it was his fault the secound time i said lets go to help .we build our dream home i am 58 yrs old when we had our secound fight split up hr was drinking alot a case of beer a day .I looked at his phone bills he was calling a girl that he worked with a lot drinking after work with her and other guys when i would call he would not ansewer sex was not big when i asked if anything was going on he said no he was always home 1 hr after work.I have to believe him .Iasked him not to call her he did he said they where friends ok maybe drinking friends but had all the rules for me hmmm He lost his job for drinking has been blaming me .We had a big fight he left anger is still with him i told him i love him but he said its over does he need time or is he confused .So he talkes about selling the house down the road even in 2 yrs .Is over or is it me that cant turn the pg i call him and tex hr only calls me to talk to our grand son will talk to me but i dont know i asked him if he wants to met up 1 a week he said ok should i back off and let him think more tell him i have moved on wait it out .Ilove the guy and he broke my heart he is texing this girl again its been 1 yr since they talked and he back at it i asked him is some one out there making you happy he said i dont want any girl in my life .what do i do

  296.  #296Rori Raye on January 13, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    liz, Welcome, and I don’t understand. Have you been married all these years and have children? Did he move out? Whatever happened, if it were me – I’d get out of there. There are lots of men out there who’d love your companionship and sex with you, and it seems like you’re financially stable owning 1/2 a home? Go make yourself available. Love, Rori