Circular Dating Will Heal Your Heart if You Look for the Messages Instead of the Man

Untitled design (14)

This comment felt so universal, I wanted to jump off into a post:

“Hi, Rori,

Well, I’ve about given up on dating websites; I’ve only had a few people contact me, on any website, in the last few weeks. It’s very discouraging, especially since most of them are younger men, and I’m not interested. Also, the guy from Arkansas wasn’t on that website for about a week, and then he came back. I’m just not going on them at all, unless someone contacts me. 🙁

I saw a guy I kind of liked (he was watching me, I was watching him, or so it seemed), in a meetup movie group I belong to, last night, but it turns out that he’s kinda dating the young lady who organizes the movies and meetups for the group. They met at a movie meetup at someone’s home, which I did not attend, and she says they had an “instant connection”.

It seems like every time I find a guy I like, and he seems even a little bit interested in me, he ends up going after someone else. 🙁
I’m about to give up on dating, etc., altogether.

I need to take care of some issues that I have, and the anniversary of my husband’s death is coming up, which is a difficult time for me, even though our relationship wasn’t in a great place, when he died. It’s on St. Patrick’s Day, March 17th. 🙁

I’ve been blue all weekend, because of the guy thing, and also some other things not related to guys that have happened.”

Here’s my answer:

First – I can only imagine what you are experiencing on this anniversary of your husband’s death – especially with the conflicting feelings around “even though our relationship wasn’t in a great place, when he died.”

Can you be a little gentle with yourself?

This has got to be a triggering time for you…and it’s going to make you feel things you don’t want to feel.

It’s going to bring up anger, and “what ifs,” and “becauses,” and all kinds of impulses to analyze your thoughts and feelings and the “nature of the world,” to and push your feelings aside.

I just want to send you love and compassion, and ask you to shower yourself with love and compassion right now. Just slather it on like butter. The butter of love for YOU.

Now – about the men and dating:

I know what you’re feeling about your pool of men – I’ve been there, we’ve all been there in this place of utter frustration.  It feels like total LACK.

Like there just isn”t what we want.  Not anywhere. Like it plain doesn’t exist.

And this is what Circular Dating heals.

Circular Dating isn’t about meeting “the guy” – or about finding love, or any result (though it will GET you that result).

Circular Dating is about practicing ALL your Tools with men everywhere.  That means at the grocery store, at the meetup group, everywhere.  This means you FOCUS on the PROCESS of learning to open up your heart in the presence of a man – no matter who he is or where you are – and that you have coffee with even the men who are “too young” in order to practice with them.

Instead of focusing on the choosing part right now – focus on the practicing part.  On the therapeutic part.  It will shift your perception so much that you’ll start to have FUN with all this – and that’s the key here – having fun, not getting burned out…using everything as a lesson to move you forward.

Focusing on what feels good – yes – on the positive moments you have, even if they seem insignificant to you.

I know you’ll want to say to me…”But there ARE no men showing up!  Who am I supposed to practice WITH?”

And here’s where Circular Dating shines:

There are men everywhere.  They may not be in the package you think you want, or look or smell right.

They may not have the the income you’d consider okay in a man, or the correct age range, or the education.  They may be depressed, or ill, or completely unsuitable in a number of ways.

But, they’re still human beings.  More important – they’re still MEN – and that means they are showing up in your world for you to practice on.

If a man is in front of you, and interacting with you, there is only one reason you need for interacting and practicing with him – that he’s there in front of you!

You don’t have to know what his message for you is right away.  Just know that he IS a Messenger.

A man is standing in front of you because he has a message for you.  Do not judge him. Do not limit him.  Just BE with him.  PRACTICE just BEING with him.  Practice every Tool you have, from this blog, from the ebook, from my programs.

You have enough Tools to have an incredibly FUN time practicing and barely even scratch the surface of your Toolbox!

And then there’s THIS benefit:  When you practice, things change.  That’s what therapy is, and Circular Dating is Free Therapy.

Every man out there, every Messenger out there, every Message that shows up in the form of any Messenger will HELP you.  He will help you.  The Message will help you.  That’s why he, and it, showed up. That’s all you need to know in order to have a good and helpful experience.

If you look at EVERYTHING in that way – even the man at the Meetup who was dating someone else but who LOOKED at you – as someone and something to PRACTICE with – the experience will be completely different for you.

The nuts-and-bolts of Circular Dating are about HOW to practice in the most efficient and therapeutic way that will get you the fastest results possible for your love life (Targeting Mr. Right is the program for these nuts-and-bolts) – but even without those specifics, just looking at this whole Circular Dating thing in this new way will change everything for you – and fast.

Once you look at being out in the world as Free Therapy, and focus on the process of THAT,  instead of either focusing on results or trying NOT to focus on results (we have to focus on SOMETHING!)  – every interaction with every man will be an entirely new, and very satisfying experience for you.

It will keep you on the track of feeling good – and that’s what will help you right now.

I am with you on this anniversary of a painful experience, and wish you love and healing.

Go experience the Messengers, wherever they are and however they look, and experience the Messages, no matter how brief, or seemingly insignificant.  It’s all for you, all meant for you, and if you see it as help and hope – that’s how it will be for you.

Love, Rori

Posted in


  1.  #1DocK on March 1, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    Thanks for this post, Rori. I have been reading along here or there but I haven’t felt “qualified” to say much lately. I haven’t been in the best place myself and doing a lot of healing work. It has been tough with many ups and downs but, I know, some growth. Growth is good but the process can hurt. Kind of like my bodybuilding, the muscle actually tears internally for it to be able to get bigger and stronger and – at least to me (within reason) more beautiful.

    BUT I did want to say that I finally “got” some of what you were saying here – about practicing and not judging the guy right in front of you and just being and letting him have his message.

    I had a guy come over to me at the gym that said, “rather than just staring at you I thought I would come over and give you a compliment and say hello.” I thought it was a nice approach and just reminded myself to smile and receive and say how good it felt to hear that and so on. Another guy, cute, very very young (I seem to be getting guys in their 20s lately – flattering but such an age difference!) kept talking to me in between sets and asking questions and do I go to the city and so on. I mentioned that I had thought it would be fun to go salsa dancing and would sometime. Later he asked me if I knew a place where he could take salsa lessons. Very cute.

    And so I practice…

    and much love to the woman in the post above. XO

  2.  #2Tina on March 1, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Dock, I feel so glad to hear your back at the gym, so am I. I started back a week ago as a matter of fact im heading out as soon as i post this comment. I’ve come to understand, with the help of the tools is to love my ugly/icky whatever parts. Life changing indeed. I eat more though lol, I want to feel and look like a brick shithouse (as they say) hehe. I’m Glad your back !

  3.  #3Simply Shannon on March 1, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    Great post Rori! I noticed that post on the Q&A and am so glad you commented personally!

  4.  #4Robin on March 1, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    I was doing this…going out with and kissing just about evey guy who asked me out or who leaned in to kiss me.

    But I’ve gotten more selective as my confidence has gone up. I hope Im not shooting myself in the foot, but, come on, some of these guys’ energy was coming at me to GET something from me.

    I remember one guy who leaned into kiss me and he licked my entire face and when I told him that I didnt feel good about this, he wanted an explanation into why. Another guy came up and asked for my # and used the F-word 10 times in 5 seconds. There are so many other stories..

    I really feel like part of Circular Dating is being able to say no to the guys who are OBVIOUSLY up to no good.

    Isn’t that part of the mantra? That we wont KNOWINGLY toss our pearls before swine?

    Rori, please help me understand this better!

    I got rid of one guy, because on Valentines Day, at the end of our date, he walks me to my car and asks me, “so can touch your boobies?’ I said no and he says “Oh please? It would really make my day.” I said no again, so he just started reaching for them, and said “just one squeeze…” I had to pry his hands off my chest.

    I really dont feel guilty for saying no to a date with a guy who gives me the creeps. I feel like thats just part of trusting our boundaries.

    Im totally ok with talking with guys and opening up to them, but I dont say yes to a date to EVERY guy that approaches me anymore. And I dont give me number out to all of them if I feel bad about it either.

  5.  #5Jennifer on March 1, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    so this post is timely for me.
    I took my 97 year old Nanny to the dentist.
    We got the “new guy”.
    OMG. This dentist was SUPER hot!!! He had the kindest eyes and was sooooo nice with my nanny. He held her hand and spoke up loudly for her to hear.
    I really wanted to melt. But I just got sooooo nervous. I got all busy, fussing over her, talking too fast, asking too many questions etc.
    I kept thinking he was gonna say something nasty (this seems to happen with me sometimes) or think I was a dork or something.
    Turns out Nanny doesn’t need any more care (she has dentures and only needed a gum check up) but I learned that attractive men make me mucho nervous.
    Now how do I stop doing that?
    The love fountain tool?

  6.  #6Lucy on March 1, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    Jennifer — What a cute story, lol. I feel glad that you sound more optimistic and loving toward yourself than before.

  7.  #7Jennifer on March 1, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    well, except I feel like a dork.

  8.  #8Turtle Girl on March 1, 2010 at 4:42 pm


    Her Highness of Dorkiness.

    Lady Dork

    Yes, being dorky. I just love that term. I can be the Dork Queen.

    Here’s what I have come to realize. Around men I care nothing about I can be very dorky and enjoy it. If I care what they think, then dork gets pushed down. My daughter tells me-Mom you are such a dork. Yes I say to her, ain’t it great! I love my dorky self.”

    But I would never say that around any man who gives me butterflies. And of course-THAT is the problem. Because it’s not authentic. It’s being in my head and worrying over what he will think of me, when in reality I should not give a big ole crap one way or another what he is thinking. I am who I am and that is who I am. Accept me the way me is. So I love my dorkiness 24/7 and the men who don’t-oh well-f’em. They ain’t for me.

  9.  #9Jennifer on March 1, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    I love my dorkiness? Let me think about that for a while.

  10.  #10Lucy on March 1, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    Jennifer, Turtle Girl — My younger sister says, “I am who I am and I don’t give a damn.”

    In other news —
    I just had joyous fun practicing Daria’s Guitar Dance to Taylor Swift’s song “Fearless” on the radio. Yeah!!! I felt happy and desirable. 🙂

  11.  #11Turtle Girl on March 1, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    Yes Jenifer-love your dorkiness-it is part of you, and you love all of you!

  12.  #12Jennifer on March 1, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    ok….in keeping with the “total self acceptance” theme I can learn to love my dorkiness.
    HOWEVER. It does seem to make it difficult to talk to men that I find attractive.

  13.  #13tinque on March 1, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    Robin – Next time that happens, might I suggest you say this, “So, can I yank your dick, REALLY hard.”

  14.  #14Jennifer on March 1, 2010 at 5:12 pm

    LOL Tinique.

  15.  #15Orna Walters on March 1, 2010 at 5:22 pm


    YES, love your dorkiness, and every other part of your being!

    FREE Audio: Self Acceptance is the Key to Feeling Loved

    This really is the KEY! 🙂

    Big Hug,

  16.  #16Jennifer on March 1, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    ok, Orna….but it seemed to keep me from talking to the hot dentist.
    So that’s counter productive,yeah?
    Thanks for the link. I’ll look it up now.

  17.  #17Tina on March 1, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    Feeling dorky is one thing, more of an awkward feeling ,I suppose. The next step would be to “catch” yourself and say ‘I love my feelings of awkwardness” I tried this on my way to visit my Mom , she is a huge trigger for me, but by the time I loved my feelings of anxiety, I couldnt locate my feeling in the body. This to me is a good thing.

    I did this at the gym tonight, one weight lifting exercise felt to hard to to, so I said to myself, I love my feelings of “giving up” this really changed my attitude about doing that particular exercise.

  18.  #18Tina on March 1, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    Acceptance is a wonderful feeling 🙂

  19.  #19Orna Walters on March 1, 2010 at 6:19 pm


    I hear you, and I want to be sure I’m on the bull’s eye. What I hear you saying is that the feeling of dorkiness kept you feeling awkward around the hot dentist, so why would you embrace/love your dorkiness?

    I want to be sure I’m getting it right.

    So to continue as if I’m on track here, Jennifer, the KEY is that when you really LOVE and ACCEPT all the parts of you, you will be simply BE in the moment with your Authentic Self allowing you to be in conversation with the hot dentist (or any other man).

    When we are in conflict on the inside our inner dialog takes over. So rather than being in the moment with the hot dentist you were in your head and saying things that were not very nice to yourself.

    Practicing the tools here allows you to change the relationship with yourself. When the relationship you have with you is one of love and respect it will be mirrored back to you in your intimate relationship.

    Think about the dentist’s office today:
    How would you have liked to FEEL?
    In order for you to FEEL the way you want – what would your inner dialog have to be?
    Get those words – capture them – write them down and say them to yourself ALL DAY LONG! Make a song out of them. Listen to the Self-Acceptance Audio.

    Now RE-Create the scene from the dentist office today. Insert your new inner dialog. Notice, what would you say? What would you do? Remember you are creating the FEELINGS you WANT to have!

    Once your subconscious knows what it looks like through rehearsing it, then when you do it in real life it will seem natural and you will have shifted your behavior.

    Remember, this is a PROCESS! Our inner dialog doesn’t change overnight, so be patient and kind with yourself and keep saying the new positive things to yourself as often as possible.

    Let me know how it goes.

    Big Hug,

  20.  #20Daria on March 1, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    Wow Orna thats really clear and helpful exercise! to what would we WANT to feel. THANK YOU

  21.  #21Orna Walters on March 1, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    Daria 🙂

    You make me smile. Thank you for the acknowledgment. I feel HAPPY!

    Big Hug,

  22.  #22Turtle Girl on March 1, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    That’s a great way to explain the process!
    Everything about this whole thing is it is ALL an inside job. We change our outer from the inner. I know when I can do this everything on the outside rights itself.

    I used this just today with my best girlfriend. we had an issue and I used only feeling messages. We both ended up having a shift in understanding, we both cried and both came out the other side of something that might have heretofore been avoided or glossed over or ignored.

    Now-she was willing to go there with me. With men they either will or they won’t and that is what I think Rori is trying to say separates the men from the boys. The boys will object, be toxic or leave. The men will respond and step up and change with us. This is really about learning a whole new way to interact with people, men and women alike. It is more truthful, more real and ultimately less stressful in my book because it is being true to yourself! Yes!

  23.  #23Orna Walters on March 1, 2010 at 7:43 pm

    Yes, yes, YES!!

    ALL the tools here are useful in all our relationships. The tools are HOW we make the transformation on the inside.


  24.  #24Sherry on March 1, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    It’s been almost 2 months since the break up of the relationship that wasn’t. It has been hard, it has been sad, and it has been heartwrenching. But I have done it. I have heard from him through text at least once a week, but I have leaned back and sat on my hands, and not gave in. I think he was surprised that I stuck to it this time, but I haven’t seen much change in him.

    I answered some of the emails on the dating site. I actually went on my first date yesterday. The man is much better on the phone lol, totally boring and no chemistry in person. But, I smiled and practiced 🙂 I went out with him to help me and I feel selfish for doing that. I don’t think I am getting the concept of circular dating… I mean I understand when I read about it, but putting it into practice wasn’t what I thought it would be.

    Maybe I just have too much work to do on me before I can practice with real humans?!!

  25.  #25Lucy on March 1, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    Need specific advice on using the tools! Here is the first email convo with a new guy from a dating site: (The way he worded his first email was because of what was on my profile, so it felt kinda cute to me):

    Him: Hi.
    I think you might be looking for me.
    I’m pretty sure I was looking for you. J

    Me: Your email made me smile and feel kinda bubbly inside. 🙂

    Him: Hi.
    I’m really glad I made you smile. I’m ecstatic that I made you bubbly inside. I will try and make that happen as often as possible. Your profile is so nice, so fun, so me. My biggest worry is I don’t know where [my town] is. Well I guess my real biggest worry is that you wont want to meet me. After that the location of [town] becomes a concern.
    I really like your face. It makes me smile.
    I want to walk around and talk to you.
    More than that I want to walk around and listen to you.
    Do you want to meet me?

    Me: Hi J. I had a crazy february. Yes, I would feel happy to meet you. 🙂

    Him: I’d like that. where and when?

    These emails took place, actually, over a period of a month — because of my crazy february. (He had emailed right away each time.)

    Sooo, I know this should be really basic and simple, but I feel stuck on how to lean back to answer this last email! I mapquested his town, and it is about an hour and a half away from me. Any advice? I just really have trouble with applying the tools to specific situations. Thanks!!!

  26.  #26Tina on March 1, 2010 at 8:51 pm

    Lucy says’ “I dont know, what do you think? 🙂

  27.  #27heartbeat on March 2, 2010 at 12:44 am

    It’s natural to feel nervous and dorky etc meeting a man we’re attracted to, is it not? I’ve learned to accept that. It’s sweet and funny and I love that human part of me.

    It’s when I try to NOT feel that way and pretend to myself I’m cool that I end up disconnected and babbling. More often now, just BEING however I am works.

    And besides, I feel tired of always examining my feelings and thoughts – as Elizabeth Gilbert said in Eat Pray Love “an unexamined life is not worth living, but sometimes it would be nice to have an unexamined lunch” LOL!

    It’s about balance, for me – I can get perfectionist about self-improvement – then I love my perfectionism along with a bunch of other quirks, including sometimes feeling annoyed with myself, or sad or clunky.

  28.  #28heartbeat on March 2, 2010 at 12:45 am

    Good morning from UK – and I’m off to work! Blue skies and green daffodil shoots….

    Love to all xxx

  29.  #29Daria on March 2, 2010 at 1:16 am

    Yes its nice to look for the message – lately I have been “getting hollered at” by men working in or related to law enforcement… big trigger for me… I have been expressing myself about it… Im feeling like I’m a twig being whittle sculpted into magic instrument art … to liberate into my passion of no prisons no opression…

    I’m learning to speak about it

  30.  #30Daria on March 2, 2010 at 1:29 am

    I have a date with sexy previous date man set for wednesday…

    i havent really talked to him in 3 weeks…

    tho he has kinda texted and called me here and there…

    but i missed his calls and then texted him back…

    well now he called me… i feel good to feel so not invested…

    he said he Missed me! he hasnt seen me for like a year!


    and hes gonna take me to a spoken word session on wednesday nite!

    wow ive nver been i feel excited

    there are other men tryna book my tomorrow, my friday and my saturday but since they havent set a time im not writing them down in my book

    there was one today but ive been healing from with the flu

    i found that homeopathy when it works it worsk

    oscillococonut lol worked for my flu

    all these practitioners and stuff have bene helping me and contacting me

    i realized reading susun weed that the chronic uti thing was protecting me = from what… from sex that hurts!

    and i commit to myself to protect myself from sex taht hurts in a way that feels good

    including being completely clear expressing myself about it to Dman and Transformer man

    i can do that for me

    Dman wanted to see me today hes going out of state for a week

    i will let him know that he will have to come see me on his own, i dont want to drive to him anymore

    i feel afraid hes gonna get that “hurt disappointed tone… like aww alright… like i just told him i dont want to be his friend or something… well i want to remind myself that my feelings matter my feelings matter my feelings matter… i love my feelings… i love my feelings of guilt and fear and love…”


    i love you and i appreciate your friendship. and i dont want to have a friendship with sex anymore. i am feeling bad and tahts not what i want… i feel GUILTY… What do you think???

    awww… okay… i see how it is… im not mad (sounding disappointed) im not mad you cant handle me…

    ohhh… i feel bad… i dont want to feel guilty…

    naw you dont have to feel guilty… im just saying…

    yeah… i feel weird

    u dont have to feel weird… i understand if you cant handle me

    yeah i feel really weird hearing that… i dont like hearing that i cant handle you… im not feeling really understood…

    yeah what do you mean you dont feel understood

    i LIKE you. and i dont want to have friendship with sex. and im feeling weird and guilty, and im starting to feel angry at you…

    youre starting to feel angry at me? ok? what did i do?

    i feel at a loss for words… i feel confused… i dont want to feel this way… i just feel bad

    okay… u feel bad… well i feel bad too

    yeah this feels bad

    yeah…well um… i guess ima talk to you later

    aright bye


    (Blah i feel drained and sad and crappy)…

    with my imaginary convo

    what do you Goddesses think?

    how can i shift this to feel good?

  31.  #31Linda on March 2, 2010 at 5:16 am

    I feel grief.
    I feel sick about what I have to do today.

    Every outward appearance, even his actions would anyone reason to hang in there, weather this storm but….

    He left his email signed in on my computer. What I read is devistating. I stumbled upon this all a week ago.

    We were together all week end, kept his grandchildren at my house, we laughed, snuggled had what I though were sincere meaningful communication, but….under all that the truth is he has been actively pursuing two other women and has set up to meet one of them tonight. This is the straw that has broken the camels back. It is all a big facade.

    He called me last night and left a message asked me to call him back. I did not answer. I dont want to talk to him at all.

    So I have to show up where he is meeting this woman tonight. Catch his hand in the cookie jar so that he cant turn it all around on me… saying Honey dont let your imagination run wild like he did last week …. The idea of it makes me ill the stress of it all is almost unbearable today

    I did not ever imagine that I chose pain, when he came to me before christmas things had shifted and we were magical… now I know it was all a lie and it is unrepairable.

    I dont have any tears.. just a sick pit in my stomach.


  32.  #32Lori on March 2, 2010 at 5:29 am

    OH LINDA! I feel sooo bad for what you found. I don’t have any words to say. Just offerring you support and hugs…..

  33.  #33tinque on March 2, 2010 at 6:00 am

    oscillococonut – Daria this is too funny. love it. may I use it as part of my own made up vocabulary?

    Your speech sounds really good. You’ve become the uber goddess of speeches. The feeling better part, well, it will happen. Remember if you can imagine it, you can create it.

  34.  #34tinque on March 2, 2010 at 6:01 am

    Linda – Wow…Some people, men and women alike, are just so good at I don’t even the right word for it, manipulation maybe.
    I feel your pain. I send you love.

  35.  #35Lori on March 2, 2010 at 6:04 am


    Maybe set a no sex boundary with this man so you don’t have to give up the friendship? Sex is easy to come by, true friendship is harder. Obviously you can’t force him to offer you more, but if sex with friendship only is making you feel bad, you should definitely change that situation for yourself. I feel like if you remove the sex from this situation, one of 3 things will happen: he will either step up and offer you more, or he will disappear in which case he wasn’t really a true friend for you- just in it for sex, or he will end up really being a true friend. Any way you look at it, it’s a win/win situation and gets you out of that place where you feel bad. Even if he disappears, at least you will know he wasn’t for real even as a friend and it will be better for you to find that out now.

    As much as I miss sex, I do find that it weeds out those men who are just looking for that. They try to pull the wool over our eyes sometimes and pretend they have more to offer us like friendship or love because they KNOW that if they say they just want sex, they turn the tables in our favor. As mentioned before a few times by more than one person here, if women are the sellers and men are the buyers, when it comes to casual sex it is a SELLERS market. EVERY ONE of us on here could walk into a bar and announce that we wanted to have sex and at LEAST one man would volunteer. When it comes to love and commitment, it then becomes more of a BUYERS market since men are traditionally the pursuers and the decision makers in this area. This is why we work these programs-to stand out in a buyers market so we are the ones that get the relationships we want and find true love. We wouldn’t need to work any programs if we all just wanted casual sex.

    Men who are just looking for sex KNOW we could have our pick in this department and know that if they just said they wanted to screw us, they’d likely be told to get lost by us. Men who want sex but no commitment like to sugarcoat this with terms like “Friends with benefits” or “casual relationship” or “open relationship”. Alot of times it comes down to the same thing, but it sounds alot better to us women when there is something attached to the sex part and makes us believe we are still in a buyers market when in actuality it has turned into a sellers market and we just don’t realize it yet. Once we do, WE have the power if we’re willing to settle for just sex.

    I like to look at it this way: If I were JUST looking for sex and NOTHING else-no friendship, no relationship, no other fun or attachment of any sort but JUST the physical act of sex itself and I could choose from pretty much any single man I wanted, would THIS be the man I would choose for that? Looking at it like that helps me alot.

    I was considering taking one of my circular dating guy-Underwear Model as a lover because he is so pretty, but when I looked at it like this, I changed my mind because he is the worst kisser of all of my circular dating guys. If I wanted to marry him, I may be able to overlook the kissing part if everything else was great, but if I were to choose one of them for sex only, I feel like I’d have to choose one I enjoy kissing more!

    If any man truly is a FRIEND with benefits and not just PRETENDING to be a friend for the BENEFITS, he would be willing and want to still hang out in periods where sex was off the table. Saying things like “It would feel great to see you, but I really don’t feel like having sex right now. I feel like going out for dinner or a movie instead. What do you think?”

  36.  #36Linda on March 2, 2010 at 7:17 am

    Thank you ladies… manipulation is the right word for it I suppose.

    He wrote to his female friend that things with me were good, and that I wanted intimacy with him… but he just not feel that way with me. He just could not give himself that way and only God knew why. It does not take a rocket scientist or God to tell you that if you dont invest yourself heart into someone and keep it guarded… as well as continuing to invest yourself in pursueing other women…you would not feel anything. Combine that with depression and lies… it is a huge ugly mess.

    He has opened every area of his life accept that one. He has told EVERY woman that he has been with that “it was just not all there for him” “He just couldnt give himself 100%”. The way that he writes to the second lady is the way he wrote to me. She has already written about circumstances in his life that are big deal breaking issues for him and yet he continues to write her. The man is not well in the head or heart. What a sad sad man, He told me in a fit a narsasistic depressive spewing… He was not a man, I dont deserve you,… you are everything and more that I need but I you are not what I want! He says I am his muse, that he feels better and when he is with me, that he loves me, there is a great chemistry between us.. but…. he is a liar and deceiptful.

    He is not good for me, nor does he give me what I need or want. I cant and wont (as I have told him before) live my life looking over my shoulder, nor can I be his friend, helping him rebuild his self deconstructed life. I told him if he wanted to pursue others he was free to do that but he could not have use of the car to do it. After everything, we have been thru, resolved, grown in…that would be just like spitting in my face and I would not put up with that!…. He said “absolutely” and that my imagination was running away with me…. Bull shit! that I would not stand by while he met other He has no one to blame but himself. I mean WTF… the gas in the tank today I purchased on the way to church together on Sunday!….

    I posted a new profile on POF last nite. My heart is not really into it but I am making myself get back out there. I just gotta get past this. I am all stirred up….with throwing up would be a relief.


  37.  #37Turtle Girl on March 2, 2010 at 8:11 am


    The term that comes up for me in regards to your situation with this man is not manipulation, although it is clear he is good at it. And a lier.

    It is betrayal.

    He is not able, willing, ready, wanting to or in general going to put the effort in to you and him. Period.

    My gut would be saying cut him loose. He is hurting you over and over again. Get your car back and get your life back. He is not stepping up, clearly he is making it plain as day he is not going to.

  38.  #38Turtle Girl on March 2, 2010 at 8:22 am

    IMHO there is no such thing as friends with benefits. The benefits are always for him and it is always fake friendship to get benefits. I don’t know one single women who did this that did not get hurt as a result.

    She does it in the hope he will come back around and love her. It never happens. Never. It only prolongs the inevitable.

    I was talking to a man online last night. We were discussing problems and issues with men and women.
    He said he though everything started going to hell for both parties when sex became so easily available with women. He said now days there is nothing to work for for the men. There is no prize. They have nothing to motivate them or inspire them.
    he said that even though there was always a risk that two people would be incompatible in the sex department and thus unhappy that he still thought it was better in the old days when women held out and made men work for them.

    Here is what he said:

    “I believe men are less manly as a result of sex being easily available. It used to be that women did not give sex until a man made, demonstrated his worthiness, had her father’s approval, and made a commitment in front of God and family and friends. Result was, young men would work their tail off to establish a career and make an honorable name for themselves in the community.”

    The topic of discussion was that I thought men are becoming like girls. He agreed wholeheartedly.

    This was coming from a man ladies. Take it for what’s it worth.

  39.  #39Robin on March 2, 2010 at 8:50 am

    Thank you Tinque! I will need to remember that one.

    I feel storm tossed right now. All the men right now are mad at me. And I dont know why. Maybe Im unavailable.

    One guy who was in love with me years ago, he waited for me for several years, and I never gave him a chance, this was before I found Rori’s products, and I was hung up on my exs. Im not beating myself up, because this was before I started practicing the tools. he did a lot of favors for me, lent me money and I cant pay it all back now, he moved away, he sent me an angry email a couple of months ago, he wont return my emails or calls, and he defriended me on facebook.

    My former fav guy hasnt spoken to me in 2 weeks. We went to the spades tournament, as he left he wouldn’t kiss me, he actually hadnt been kissing me at the end of our dates, but the next day at church instead of waiting and speaking with me, he just left without saying hi. He told me he would be out of town the following weekend, but he was there, and he did the same thing, he just left and didnt say one word to me. And Im remembering the last time we kissing, I was in my head, I leaned back and did nothing, I was like a cold fish, eww, I feel SAD, thats not how I want it to be, I WANT to kiss back when Im with a man like.

    The guy who asked me about my boobies, incidentally, is the camera guy, and I have been ignoring him, that wrong, I know, Ive been busy, and putting it off also, I guess on some level. Hes pissed now too, sent this email:
    “Now that it has been two weeks with no reply to any of my e-mails or phone calls I guess maybe we should call it quits. I am certainly more than a bit disappointed as I was hoping we could become fast friends and we can never have too many of those I think.
    So hopefully I can get my Tortilla Soup CD back please! …and I know you like it but it is not that hard at all to find at music stores or online. It was a gift from a friend so I would like to retrieve it soon.
    I like your “I feel so privileged” quote on your page and if you could sign the model release it would “help me” and of course equally “help yourself” with self promos. This is an even trade and of course established professional models and actresses have signed these releases for me rather than pay for non released photos.
    Should you decide you don’t want to sign the model release, I can go ahead and license the images to you but will need to retain some sort of fee. Although our shoot was more extensive than a simple head shot shoot, I will give you a head shot rate of $200 and even though I have around 5 hrs in post production, I will just do a flat $100 for a total of three hundred. You really should not use the e-mail filesn at all until they are licensed, they are not big enough to print but many retailers such as Wal-mart recognize professionally shot images and ask for a license.
    I was really hoping to work with you more and looking forward to more shoots, shoot more full figure images but your lack of compliance and communication is discouraging. Anyway I wish you the best of luck with your career and please show professional etiquette and respond this time.
    I need some sort of communication.”

    Wow, so everything is chaotic and messy, and thats ok, Ive been sick, I broke my phone and my laptop…
    I feel so glad that Im not crumbling in a corner because its chaotic. It can be messy and crazy, I dont need to seek closure and everything doesnt have to be nice and neat.

    But I do feel so so sad, especially about former fav guy. I just dont know what happened. I cant help but think he’ll come back eventually, but Im wondering if maybe I should have given him my ‘speech’ earlier. The timing just never felt right.

    I dont know if I looked hard enough for a message from him either, I do know that I was talking to my ex’s gf and I said a man has to be ready, and has to be ready for ME, thinking about former fav, and realizing that this is the TOP core need, as it should be, maybe that was it.

    He made me feel beautiful. Maybe that was it. He was a totaly surprise, he was unexpected, he came into my life so unexpectedly. Maybe I needed to feel beautiful during that season in my life, and his work is done. I feel sad.

    Maybe Im looking at this from a totally narcissisitic perspective.

    I dont know what happened. The connection just fell apart. I feel like the wind has been knocked out of me, and I feel teary-eyed.

  40.  #40Jennifer on March 2, 2010 at 8:52 am

    Oh; Linda!!!
    I feel so sad for you. So…weepy for you. So angry at the unfairness for you.
    I feel big triggered.
    This is a BAD MAN!!!
    It’s not politcally correct, maybe or very enlightened. I guess I’m supposed to feel like he’s on his own journey or something…and maybe he is. But I firmly believe that some people are just selfish personified…walkin around in shoes.
    And this guy is that person.
    I just know there is something so much better for you out there. I just feel it.

  41.  #41Jennifer on March 2, 2010 at 8:57 am

    Thanks for the protocol. That seems like it should be simple enough to do.
    I just need to focus on how I WANTED to feel.
    I am not sure how I wanted to feel.
    I have a bit of a history of feeling awkward around men I find attractive. It may have something to do with the history I have of men i find attractive dissing me.
    I think that’s another reason I have a hard time dealing with leaving B. I never felt awkward around him, he seemed to be my kind of wierd.
    But….my man wouldn’t leave me out in the cold. So I guess he wasn’t THE guy.
    Moving on.

  42.  #42Lucy on March 2, 2010 at 9:17 am

    Tina — “‘I dont know, what do you think?'”

    Thanks for that! It really WAS obvious, wasn’t it?? (Just not to me lol)

  43.  #43Orna Walters on March 2, 2010 at 9:17 am

    Oh Linda,

    I feel your heartbreak. I will never forget the heartache I have felt around betrayal. It sucks. What I’d like to offer you is HOPE because I have been where you are and today I am healed, happy and in the best relationship of my life. So today, focus on YOU. Feel everything you are feeling. Honor and respect YOU and when you have distance from this event you can look for the gift in it – or as Rori says the message.

    I discovered that my most painful experiences with guys was all about me learning to VALUE myself. Yours may be similar, it may be different, but I can assure you there is a gift in there.

    Sending you much Love and Light,

  44.  #44Orna Walters on March 2, 2010 at 9:29 am


    I don’t think there is a woman out there who has not felt uncomfortable around a man she is attracted to. I believe the same is true for men around women. Its NORMAL. 🙂 There is nothing wrong with you.

    The tools here are here to practice so you can be comfortable in your own skin. Practice them and you will find that you get positive results.

    Here’s a personal story I feel is appropriate:
    My husband and I met through a business networking group. He and I flirted for almost a whole month before he asked me out. He had invited me to a meeting I never attended as he was the speaker. He was also in charge of the registration desk. I arrived and he gave me the wrong change, was completely bumbling behind the registration table and forgot to give me a name tag! He had saved me a seat next to him.

    I found his nervous-dorky-bumbling-goofy behavior completely ADORABLE! This gave me insight to the fact that HE LIKED ME!! 🙂

    Once again – you cannot do a “wrong” thing with the “right” person.

    Big Hug,

  45.  #45Robin on March 2, 2010 at 9:33 am

    Jennifer-Yes! He wasn’t THE guy.
    I love it!

    Linda, I agree with the other ladies, he’s just NOT WHAT YOU DESERVE.

    He may not even be trying to deliberately hurt you, a man that lies and says he ‘just can’t’ has baggage of his own that has NOTHING to do with you. But because he cant give you what YOU WANT and NEED, if you stay, it will become toxic for you. It sucks, I know, and Im sorry you are having to deal with this.

    If he’s not it, then there’s just something better for you out there, a better man for you.

  46.  #46Rachel on March 2, 2010 at 9:46 am

    Hi everyone

    Any suggestions for how to choose a Username for chatting that sounds warm, inviting, goddesslike without being cheesy?!

  47.  #47lm on March 2, 2010 at 9:46 am


    my guy gets nervous like that if he hasn’t seen me for a few days or if we are out with new people or doing a new activity, even though we’ve been together for quite a while. lots of blushing and clearing his throat, fretting over how i’m doing, if i’m enjoying myself. he tries so hard. it’s pretty cute.

  48.  #48Linda on March 2, 2010 at 10:07 am

    Thank you again. Your comments are all welcomed. He is a BAD guy.. he claims to be a christian I doubt it. He claims promises and loves good… but the bigger issue is that he does not hate evil.

    I think he will absolutely shocked that I am ending this. I have always been the one to seek reconciliation with him the voice of reason etc. This time is the final blow. This is about respect for me, you are right.

    Thanks for your support ladies.


  49.  #49Lucy on March 2, 2010 at 10:48 am

    Linda — I know what you mean about claiming to be a Christian, that was my ex-husband. I love him and forgive him, but will not go back to him, and marvel still at how he has everyone fooled (church, work, etc.) <3

  50.  #50Lucy on March 2, 2010 at 10:50 am

    I just WON four tickets to see Love and Theft!!!! It would be SO cool to go with THREE GUYS lol but I don’t think there’s any way to make that happen without Leaning forward, is there?! Lol.

  51.  #51Daria on March 2, 2010 at 11:06 am

    Robin –

    photo guy seemed low self esteem and “creepy” to a lot of us from the beginning – his little “Rant” feels like a huge turnoff.

    Fav Man – sounds like he’s pursuing another woman

    Ex guy – sounds like he’s having a girly “rant” too

    I wouldn’t worry about him anymore, except to tell him that I feel really weird and turned off, and I would definitely like to get the best deal from my photos (I don’t know how to do this best) – hopefully Rori can help with this… as she’s worked this to her advantage she said… I feel a lil triggered thinking of past situations when I started trying to “negotiate” for my stuff and felt stressed because he could use feelings against me or something

    Linda – I feel judgemental of myself as non compassionate here. To me a man CANNOT fall in love with you when you are being GIVING and BEING THERE for him. When you first told us you gave him the car was a tipoff for me that he is using you. I feel glad you are going through this situation because there is a big message here.

    I know from my godbrothers that they will often date a woman for what she can give to them and provide for them. Including letting them use her car, etc. They are purusuing OTHER women as a priority. Because they are not in love with providing there for them women. To their credit, now that I know Rori, I know it’s because they CANNOT. They must be the givers to fall in love. And since they may not have much material stuff to give, its even more crucial that they are the givers. I have turned off exes by being there for them before too. I feel glad for that.

    My Godbrothers are GOOD men. They have good hearts, are kind and protective of me, are fun and loving and sweet.

    And yet they do this SO MANY TIMES. Some even do this to women they have children with! Because they CANNOT fall in love with a woman that is taking up the giver nurturing role. It’s NOT THAT THEY ARE BAD. IT’s just that a certain dynamic of masculine feminine , giving receiving must be in place for them to fall in love.

    I cannot BLAME them for not falling in love, any more than a man can blame me for not feeling attracted to him.

    There is no one to blame. We are in a world of masculine feminine relationships and add to that our triggers and voila… messy world.

    I feel excited to think that the messages from this relationship will HELP you on a visceral level and that this man will become a helper for you in your imagination.

    The way guywhohadababy has become for me… his “rejection” which was actually just inability to fall in love with me… led me to find my femininity. How was he to fall in love with his best “guy friend” – me? He COULDNT. he even TRIED. And I feel glad for this message. SO GLAD because I got me, instead of him. And me rocks big cliff rocks.

  52.  #52Soignée on March 2, 2010 at 11:11 am

    Dear Turtle Girl,

    you are sooooooo right!!!!
    As sex is so available, the men do not try to show their masculine attitude. I remember, the men who were mad about me, and felt love, they had to show that they were interested, they worked hard to get me. And they felt in love.

    In my environment, every woman who made the guy wait, was in the better position .

    It is true, the men have to show with their actions the interest. So they start to be more masculine.

    If I can give some women an advice, if you want a serious relationship, please make him wait, work for sex.

  53.  #53Daria on March 2, 2010 at 11:27 am

    For me, I don’t see sex as a “I have to make him wait” thing.

    The relationship dynamics and emotionaly intimacy are what make a man fall in love.

    Like Rori said, a woman can have sex swinging froma chandelier with a man on their first meeting, and he will still be fascinated with her AS LONG AS SHE IS LOVING HERSELF.

    I started sex with Dman (above) as a sexperiment with myself. Now I find that I have feelings for him that are more than sex. Also, I had driven to him and no longer want to do that.

    I’ve alos had sex in the past with men, as a sexperiment and for my OWN PLEASURE and did not relaly find myself liking them more than lovers. Though I felt good and adored.

    I don’t like the speech above.

    Tinque you said you liked it but I don’t. It doesn’t feel good to me. it’s more like waht I expect to happen. I am not interested in really delivering above speech the way it is, it feels futile. I could deliver the same message by being silent.

    I want to deliver a speech that feels empowering to me…

    anybody want to Tweak?

  54.  #54Robin on March 2, 2010 at 11:30 am

    Thank you Daria!

    My mom said the same thing about former fave guy, she thinks that he’s got another woman.

    And somehow, reading it here, it feels more honest, I really didnt get that feeling when my mom said it, I had a feeling it was his job, work, etc.

    But hearing that someone else thinks the same thing, I feel panicked.

    How did this happen? I have no idea how to do relationships, or even dating for that matter, apparently.

    I’ve been able to lean back, but at a certain point, I’m like. ok now what?
    And I want the commitment!!

    It makes me feel like I just let him slip through my fingers, like I couldnt get him to want to commit to me.

    And In a nutshell, I can’t.

    But I feel sad b/c Im worried that I am to blame partially, b/c he was SO into me when we first started dating.

    I dont even know what went wrong. I feel so confused.


  55.  #55Daria on March 2, 2010 at 11:33 am

    Aw ROBIN –

    hugs! You did nothing wrong most likely, or else you would know it.

    This is Circular Dating! Men are a river remember? They come and go! It’s not about keeping one. It’s about opening up to love!!!

    You did great, now hug your feelings of not feeling good enough, and open up to more and more men! You WILL have that relationship you want. FIRST you will have it with you.

  56.  #56Soignée on March 2, 2010 at 11:34 am


    I applaude you for your latest post! I would leave the signature as a confirmation for every single word you say about the man and his givers role. Yes, the man will love the woman when she allows him to be a provider for her. He wants a woman who he will take care of, not a woman who will take care of him.

  57.  #57Daria on March 2, 2010 at 11:41 am

    Wow Soignee thank you.

    I feel judgemental of myself as sounding non-compassionate. I know the feminine grows with praise… it’s the masculine that grows with challenge

    there is more than one way to be honest

    grrr… I want to deliver Good love, not Tough love… I feel ineffectual and I feel removed and like im a stone wall.


  58.  #58Robin on March 2, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    Thank you Daria. The only thing I can think of is that I wasn’t receptive enough. The kissing, the text where he said he though I’d forgotten about him, the fact that I invited him to my house just recently, I felt like doing it about 6 or 7 dates in, but thats when he started traveling for weeks at a time for work.

    Maybe I f^%$*d it up. damn it

  59.  #59Robin on March 2, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    My house is nearly ready for people to come over, but now I guess I’ll turn around and start packing. I’ve been offered a great deal, so i think Im going to move. So he never got to see where or how I live..I really felt like that was a key to opening up more to men, shifting my vibe, I was hiding my hoarding and clutter, I know he wanted to see where I live, I guess Im just going to start packing.

  60.  #60Daria on March 2, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Robin – you did not fuck it up. HUGS!! He is only one man in a river. You felt uncomfortable at the time inviting him. You don’t HAVE TO be receptive MORE than you feel receptive. YOu have to feel safe to open up. You’re baby stepping.

    He’s stepping away – that’s not the behavior of a man you can be receptive to.

    So maybe the message here is in opening up, letting him go, and trusting that more wonderful men are coming your way, maybe even this one.

  61.  #61Orna Walters on March 2, 2010 at 12:23 pm


    I love how you honor and express your feelings here. I do have a visualization that you can work with the stone wall (if it feels right to you). The idea is that you picture taking the stone wall down stone by stone – and build a bridge with it. You can decide what is on the other side of the bridge – a man, your soul mate, another version of you…

    If you use it, please let me know how it goes for you. 🙂

    Big Hug,

  62.  #62Daria on March 2, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    Orna –

    Thank you! I feel good at the idea of building a bridge – could it be to the person I want to hear me? or to a version of me that I feel amazed by her compassionate way of honesty?

    I feel unsure about that part…

    Would you like to help me with something on a this other thread? I like your voice and I would feel good to hear you here:

    I do not want Paula to leave and also I do not want to tolerate being attacked or feeling bad… I’m practicing standing up for myself and NOT tolerating feeling bad rather than caring about the other person’s feelings… and i feel guilty about that…

  63.  #63Linda on March 2, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    Daria.. I read what your comment to me. Time reveals all things. This had to play itself out.

    When S came to me he told me he love me. Things were really good so…. I believed him. THe car thing came up weeks later. I was suspicious of him but I also felt I was responding to a need. It was not my me giving, offering… leaning forward.

    You are right this is learning experience. I offered my best. I feel good about that at least. He does not give… he acts like he will and then he steps away.

    I am going to get the car in just a few minutes. I have decided that I am not going to make where works is 5 minutes away verses… 30. I am going to be kind to myself.


  64.  #64Daria on March 2, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    Yay Linda —

    its all going to be good – Watch. The next men that show up you will be feeling better and better –

    I feel excited for you… “real talk”

    Did you decide if you are going to show up where he was supposed to meet that woman?

    I personally would not, because I would feel bad and scared…

    but I also have a trigger in that I am afraid of confrontation,

    so part of me feels excited to hear about that and curious….

  65.  #65Daria on March 2, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    Linda – This part i feel triggered reading and I feel concerned about:

    “I offered my best”


    That feels lean forward to me and I feel concerned about that idea and image.

    We as Goddesses don’t have to offer Anything, or our best.

    We are to RECEIVE not offer and open and show all of ourselves, not only our best.

    UGH i feel like the most masculine woman on the planet right now – it feels frustrating and weird.

    I feel concerned because since you feel good about this, the image feels key to me

  66.  #66Daria on March 2, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    OK — SO im getting that I learned A LOT in my sexperiment with Dman, but it wasnt what i expected to learn.

    I learned that I must STAND UP for my pleasure, and not tolerate less – pain.

    I learned that my body and my bladder… tkaes this VERY SERIOUSLY.

    I learned that i do not fully heal from a uti, until I commit to standing up for my feeling good during sex.

    I learned that I can embrace horrible parts of me, even the parts that are “Defeated” and I feel disgusting and afraid getting close to… like the bloody aborted fetus that is a part of me that I saw in my stranger exercise, WHO ORGANIZED my healing for me once I embraced him/her… even tho he/she was spewing blood, and poop – diapers anyone?

    there were also other parts of me, like the ragged thing with two insect like pincers instead of a head. Reminded me of the fingers of the man I met with amputated arms and fingers.

    So wow.



    I feel a lot more confident I’m feeling the message here

  67.  #67Simply Shannon on March 2, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Linda: I feel weird saying this but I feel very concerned about your self esteem. Yes S isn’t acting like a man I would want to be with but I’m also hearing a lot of denial on your part. He keeps doing bad things, and you keep accepting him back in your life.

    Based on your posts (pre-Christmas through these last ones), I don’t feel surprised by S’s behavior. I do feel concerned about you though. I feel concerned hearing that you would even consider going to “catch” him red-handed. What are your reasons for putting yourself in a position of pain? What will that gain you? Does it really take seeing him with another woman to give you the strength to say “no” to this man? If that’s true, he has your power, and I feel very concerned reading that.

  68.  #68Turtle Girl on March 2, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    Linda –

    I agree with Simply shannon. I haven’t said anything about this because I was trying to figure out how to word it, but SS just spoke the truth I believe. I have read all your posts and it feels like you might be using S to beat you up.

    Many years ago when I was married I caught my husband cheating. I caught him “red handed”. I ripped the phone out of the wall cord and all, took a steak knife to his paint job on his car and had a total meltdown – hysterical angry meltdown. It was horrible and did not feel good. I was shaking and totally out of control. The betrayal was so hard to accept. But what I realized was that I was there and in denial about the whole thing. He cheated and was a bastard, but I kept beating a dead horse trying to get him to stop and to love me, not her. It was sick. I was not in a good place and my self esteem was really on the line. Your situation feels icky and like you are “chasing” him to love you. I am like Shannon very concerned about your well being and emotional health. Please tell me that whatever you have to do-don’t go and try to catch him.

    It did not make me feel better. It was in actuality sacrificing my good name, esteem and power at the alter of a cheater and a lier. Please take care of yourself. xxoo Turtle

  69.  #69gina on March 2, 2010 at 6:49 pm

    feelin tempted to DO something. He texted “we need to hang out! 🙂 do a movie at home or something…Cuddle it up!”
    And I said “aww…cuddlin it up sounds super!”
    and he texted “yup!” but that’s it…and it feels weird to leave it all hangin like that

  70.  #70Orna Walters on March 2, 2010 at 7:33 pm

    Pssst, Daria… I’ve been coaching clients all day. Just now got caught up on the other thread. I hope what I posted there helps you. 🙂


  71.  #71Orna Walters on March 2, 2010 at 7:44 pm


    You can use that visualization to build a bridge to ANYTHING or ANYONE you’d like. It is very powerful. I think I’ll have my husband record that process and that will be our next product! Thank you! 🙂

    Please share how it goes for you. You can also email me directly at if you’d like to share privately.

    Big Hug,

  72.  #72DejaVu on March 2, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    Linda –
    I feel your disappointment. I’ve been there, sorry to say, more than once. I’ve learned so much from reading Rori’s words, and also, from all of the stories that all of you have shared. I believe that you might find something on this site that might help you ……This is a good place to go when you are ready to move on…. lots of common sense and encouragement. Hugs to you – you are brave and strong, kind and generous, and you deserve happiness.

  73.  #73Daria on March 3, 2010 at 2:29 am

    I got sexy men I got sexy men Woo hooo!

  74.  #74Daria on March 3, 2010 at 2:40 am

    ok things just got emotionally intense online in my first convo with sexy man…

    apparently hes had his heart broken…
    i feel shaky

  75.  #75Daria on March 3, 2010 at 2:44 am

    wow i had to deliver THIS speech: (thanks Rori for it)

    i dont want to wait and try to convince you to like me… this feels bad..
    i would feel really happy to meet u
    and i dont want to put pressure on this
    so im just gonna lean back and chill and go to bed for now
    what do you think

  76.  #76Daria on March 3, 2010 at 2:55 am

    i stepped away

    he was like
    u know where to reach me

    i dont play with my life
    i dont want my heart broken again

    this is crazy i dont talk about my feelings

    im like
    i feel shaky

    i feel like im pulling on you and i dont want to do that

    he said
    i think you should

    i said

    this feels bad… i dont want to pull on a man

    im open if you want to come see me and see whatsup

    nite papi
    and then

    closed the im box

    i felt sad
    and i was updating my message

    well my status
    to say

    i feel a lil sad


    he writes me now

    can i have your number so i can call you tomorrow




    it WORKED

    stepping away WORKED!!!



    and i said

    I feel so happy now!!

    im at 555 5555, i have my business voicemail on there its cool to leave a message if you miss me

    i feel so relieved!


    i feel hella love for you all of a sudden


    i feel silly!

    nite papi!”

    and then i was closing the screen and i saw him say

    nite love!


    what a FIRST CONTACT IM!!!


    i feel excited!!

  77.  #77Daria on March 3, 2010 at 3:01 am

    it helped that 3 other men were talking to me on the phone and online at the same time hehe

    and i jsut had a convo with one on the phone where i told him i dont want to drive,

    he said what do i bring to the table i said

    im a woman

    he said thats it

    i said yes – with confidence

    he said hehe

    yeahhhh buddy hehehee

    then he wanted to figure out how he could get to me

    oh he still tried to ask me to come to him

    and i kept saying

    boyyy im not gonna drive to you

    i said i expect a man to take care of that kinda thing


    so i was “fresh”
    and feeling good with the intense convo

    and valuing myself

  78.  #78Daria on March 3, 2010 at 3:02 am

    i put on my status im hard to get – test me out if you dont believe

    hehe i guess that shows them hehehe


  79.  #79Lori on March 3, 2010 at 5:42 am


    I LOVE that you put “hard to get” on your status!!!!!

  80.  #80Linda on March 3, 2010 at 5:53 am

    Hi ladies THIS IS A LONG POST bare with me please!

    Thank you for your comments and support.

    Daria… I understand what you are saying. For me I have to feel good and proud of my effort and integrity in relationships, work etc. In fact it is a huge part of my make up and character. I give my best effort in things. This does not mean that I over function and gush, doint it or thinking it will get someones attention or make them love me. I offer my best because I need to be proud of me. When I do something it is not a half ass or hearted effort. That is what I mean I guess when I say I gave my best. I have learned the art of leaning back.

    SS, Turtle Girl, DejaVu….thank you for your concern and sharing. I know that this is a great place to learn and heal. Each word that is shared here is always genuine and worth absorbing. I AM in a good place. I have been dealing with disapointment and wrestling with what I knew I had to do but wished I didnt.

    My self esteem is fine and in tact. In fact it is better now. I did not drive to where he was meeting this other woman. I thought I would so that he would have no room to lie to me any more, which is what he has done habitually. After really thinking about ie..It felt too harsh to me and I did not did not want to do that to myself. I chose a kind and gentle path for ME…. I had my daughter drive me to his work which is only 5 minutes from my house to get it, but he was not at work, he had called in sick!!!!. Only on his new job less then one week and calling in sick again (a habitual pattern for him and why he lost his last new job!) hmmmmm So we drove to his condo. On the way I called him and he said had a sore throat and sick at his stomach. hmmmmmm He wanted to know why I did not return his call from the prior nite. I said I was busy and just was getting around to it….(he knew by that, that I was not making him a priority in my life anymore)… He wanted to know what was up?…He.told me his work had called and said my daughter had dropped in OMG… I was not expecting that!… I said “oh we were out and was going to suprise you and see your new work… he inquired as to what I was doing and I said… I am out with her right now I will call you later… feel better. We were driving to his condo as I spoke and arrived within 10 min.

    AS we drove I realized I did not have a speech prepared OMG… what was I going to say….

    With a huge lump in my throat and heart pounding I knocked on his door, which he finally openned after finding out it was me. He looked puzzled but let me in. I then said, I am sorry that you dont feel well today. He hugged me….I said “I am here to get the car”. He was stunned and turned white as a sheet! I said S you dont care for me, He said. “that is not true”… I said ” no you dont, not really… and I am simplifying things for me here”. I said..” you are free to pursue who you want”… he said “I am not pursuing anyone (BOLD FACED LIE)… “I calmly said, “you are not pursuing me”…. I slightly shook my head in stared him straight in the eye and said ” I dont want you in my life”. He turned and said… “you gotta do what you gotta do… I said “yes I do”. While in the garage he muttered shaking his head… “I am not pursuing anyone”…. OMGosh it took everything within me to hold my tongue. and not say exactly what I knew… but I just stood there and waited for him to get his stuff out of my car.

    There was no drama. I was not there to debate or share with him emotionally, I have already shared my feelings, and stated my needs and absolutes with him. I stated my truth, gathered my property and drove away. I enforced my boundries and followed thru with them.

    He called me later I did not answer. His voicemail said … hey, you are the one that did not return my call… but I am not keeping score. he continued… the least you could have done is return my garage door openner and my house slippers. Dont take them to my work, because I wont have a job anymore because I cant get there now. ( I had already brought his garage door opener already, and will just mail his slippers)

    I did not have any pang of guilt nor do I feel any responsibility to aid him in any way. That feels amazinginly good. I have no empathy or sympathy. I was once open to him, there for him, cared but he repayed me with lies, deceipt and betrayal. He has brought this calamity upon himself. Like the little boy who cried wolf, his words fall on my ears no more. I have forgiven and made allowance for him over and over and over. NO more.

    My self esteem has not taken a hit. I am a beautiful vivacious goddess. I will not be taken advantage of or lied to ever. This is not a failure, not counted as a loss but a win for me. I am so glad to be free of this entanglement. I can look in the mirror and smile at myself because I respect me wholeheartidly!!! AND the bonus here is my Daughter respects ME now too! She said she was proud of me!!!!! Smiling…

    He wrote an email to his mutual friend saying that and I quote… Linda and I ended things today. (LIE…NO I ENDED THEM)…… she was constantly pushing for a ring and marriage and I will not get involved with someone that has an agenda and ulterior motives ever again! OMG…. NOOOOTTT TRUE!… (one discussion once about marriage that he intiated)… he also said that I had major issues in my family that he did not want to get involved with. NOTTTT TRUE!….. He is giving the impression that I am a mess, clingy, and agenda driven!……OMG….NOT TRUE… WHAT rationalization and misrepresentation.!!!

    HE knows why I am gone. He knows that HE did not keep his word to me. He knows that he IS pursuing other women and was going to meet one of them last night. He knows that he is writing yet another woman AND really laying it on thick with her. He knows that he was unfaithful to me… texting, communicating, used my car to go meet two other women before our trip to Florida and texting one of those while we were on our trip together… He knows he contacted me, approached me, pursued me, told me over and over he loved me…. He knows HE is a LIAR…. HE KNOWS.

    Ladies…I find comfort in the fact that NOTHING that is done, NOTHING done is EVER able to be concealed. Good or bad, truth or lie…that they ALWAYS are exposed in one way or another. That is why I will NOT attempt to keep secrets, lie, …. if you are doing anything that you are hiding or in a relationship that you are hiding… It wont be remain hidden for ever. Think of the things you yourself have discovered thru life and how…it is truely a fact!

    Today, I feel like I have had a big tumor removed. I do not feel loss, sad, lonely, giving up… just peace and relief.

    Smiling TODAY…. LINDA

  81.  #81sia on March 3, 2010 at 6:54 am

    hi linda

    i feel amused by him dissing you. He probably feels like a loser to everyone who hears that. If he talks about you in this way to another woman he meets, that will be a great warning to her.

    A question: how did he talk about other women, or other people whom he has fallen out with or had problems with?

    Were there any signs before that he is capable of this?

    Congratulations on getting someone who acts this low out of your beautiful presence!

  82.  #82tinque on March 3, 2010 at 7:54 am

    Linda – YAY!!! I feel such a welling in my heart for your courage, bravery, gutsiness, goddessiness.
    🙂 xxoo

  83.  #83Rori Raye on March 3, 2010 at 8:23 am

    Brava Linda!

  84.  #84Orna Walters on March 3, 2010 at 8:53 am


    CONGRATULATIONS!! I commend you on your courage and strength!



  85.  #85Linda on March 3, 2010 at 9:18 am

    Thank you… I need the congrats… I have a tendancy to re think, replay and want do overs some times.

    Sia…. very interesting point and one that I will keep close to my rememberance.

    Yes S did talk about most the other women even his mother as either, brainless sexy pots, unspiritual, manipluative, agenda driven, controlling, drama queens etc. Sheesh what a list. I bet some of it is true but the majority of wonderful women just like me.

    Next men I am around, I will pay close attention to what their issues are and how the speak of their past and ex’s.

    Good observation!


  86.  #86Linda on March 3, 2010 at 9:56 am

    I think that the other BIG thing that is helping me with this ordeal is that having read all his communications thru his email and POF account is that it has killed any hope that he would change his mind and still want me in addition to the fact that he absolutely disgusts me now.

    I did not even find him attractive yesterday like I usually do… reality and truth bare new light on subjects if you look thru them.

    If I had not had that information and the things I have learned here… I would be broken and dispondant.

    Yeah for me


  87.  #87DocK on March 3, 2010 at 11:27 am

    Hi Linda – I feel for you and what has happened and so proud of the steps you took to care for yourself and walk away…

    But also, be gentle with yourself.

    For me, I have endured some horribleness such as this myself. While I don’t like labels either, when a person’s behavior is such that he seems to be vindictive or almost borderline sociopath, I realize that it is just the behavior – and that can change – IF the person desires that to happen himself – but it doesn’t change the experience of this harmful behavior.

    It can shake you to your core – I know it did me. In the ending of these relationships, I often did feel strong in the beginning because my spirit knew I was getting away from something that felt so icky. However, the tears do come, and the self-recrimination (‘why didn’t I walk away sooner?’) and also self-doubt crept in (‘it’s me, I’m not ENOUGH’) – I’m human.

    The end of a relationship has the various stages of grief similar to when a person dies – difference is – when we lose a loved one to death – even though we know that person wasn’t perfect – what we loved about them isn’t lost (Tigress speaks of this very well in her break-up advice) – just the physical being. When we lose someone in a relationship, even if we finally walk away – the physical person isn’t just lost but the love and caring – and this hurts.

    There were moments for me of feeling so strong and secure and ‘thank goodness’ that’s gone and then feeling scared and angry and fearful and collapsing into a heap. I had to sink into it, allow it.

    It isn’t just the person we grieve – it’s the loss of hopes and dreams. It is the loss of how we felt when we thought this person was speaking truth about his feelings for us. I think we keep thinking we’ll wake from the bad dream and he’ll go back to the good part we believed.

    It can feel very hard.

    Helpful to me is Rori’s instructions to us to do the exercise about “What would I be like, and what would my life be like if it wasn’t true that he’s the only man for me?

    For me it looks like releasing ‘why not him?’ and allowing all of the opportunities for gorgeous, loving men of integrity to come towards me. It feels like healing and releasing old issues and beliefs that attract men that reinforce those beliefs to receive men that respond to a different idea of what I deserve so that I can attract that. It means being clear about what I want and not abrogating my desires to accommodate THIS guy.

    I would feel optimistic about my options. I wouldn’t feel desperate because there would be no need to feel that way – why not? Because I would be flirting, smiling at men, making eye contact, chatting, playing, singing, dancing, receiving and keeping my heart open. I would feel confident and I would trust myself because I would know that I am practicing and taking baby steps and doing everything to allow many men to come towards me. I would feel trusting of the universe because I know that it is a loving supportive place that is an energy that loves to support me in my desires and provides me with many opportunities to meet quality men that vie for my attention and, eventually, the one that steps up.

    So my point is that it will take time. So again, yes, be strong in your resolve to eliminate what feels icky but be gentle with yourself to allow grieving. Journal through your feelings and vision what feels good with every single of your senses.

    Big Hugs, DocK

  88.  #88Simply Shannon on March 3, 2010 at 11:57 am

    Brava Linda!!! I feel relieved hearing you have ended things with S. I KNOW it feels difficult and heartbreaking but I feel encouraged to hear you said “no” to him.

  89.  #89Daria on March 3, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    Linda – your triumph in retrieving your car feels good and calming to read.

    Reading that offering your best to a relationship is a part of your character feels triggering to me… because I can relate to that, that was me. I offered my best to everyone I was in relationship with, I can now say obsessively. When I started Rori’s tools I felt totally uncomfortable not doing so, but now I find myself not doing so. I shifted this “worthy” part of myself which I believed up held up my character, and I stand still a Goddess that no longer needs to offer her best to anyone because my best is in being.
    Hmm. That sounds like that is sinking into me on a deep level, because I think of when I “offer” advice to others on this site, and it’s makinga “click” for me right now. As in, am I doing it to make myself feel good for offering. I’m feeling shaky and unsure of myself in the advice giving department right now. I feel good for this healing. This advice now goes to me.

    I feel glad that I am still here still worthy. Right now I am working on the triggering feelings of judging myself as insensitive, controlling, clumsy, and masculine. This is how I remember myself in my early childhood. Well parts of me. I feel overwhelmed and ashamed. I love me. I feel love for myself and compassion. I feel afraid. I feel protective of myself.

    Another thought. There are men that God has brought into my life. There were angels and stars that told me this man has come into your life… not a voice but a knowing. Other times I saw angels. Both of these men were abusive. Now I realize that they were/are here to grow me, not in the first way I thought of – that we are angels to care kindly for each other – yes we are probably angels, but the growing we are doing is more complex and dramatic and frankly … challenging. To get thru to a battle ready goddess such as I was that was probably the way for it to come thru to my soul.

    I see that walking away from a man and saying no is love like staying with a man and saying yes might not be. This is now sinking in on a deep level. I feel good and calm.

    I love both these men very very much. They have brought AMAZING love feelings and wisdom in my life. And with one that I am still tweaking with, Transformer man, I’m open to there being much more love and transformation there – and I choose it in a way that feels good… as I have ended my battle quest in this life… and entered on my forest journey of beautiful life flowers and creatures.

  90.  #90Terry on March 3, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Goddesses, I have a question. In one of Rori’s newsletters (I think) I read that if a man is dating other women the same time he is seeing me, then dump him. But, I can’t remember how to do that.

    A guy that I’ve been dating on and off for several months was on a date the other night. I saw him and he saw me. So, do I just ignore his calls? Do I give him a speech the next time he calls? If so, what do I say? Or do I keep him in my ciruclar dating rotation?

  91.  #91Terry on March 3, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Oops, I meant to post my questions in New Post for questions category. I didn’t mean to abruptly hijack Linda’s discussion.

  92.  #92Orna Walters on March 3, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    I will share this because I hope it will help some of you see the Bigger Picture for your own journey.

    A boyfriend I lived with, who I thought was “the One” beat me up on New Year’s Eve 1994. It was devastating. Having grown up in a home with emotional and physical abuse, I could not believe I PICKED someone who would harm me.

    Last summer, my husband and I were at a coffee house with live music. We went to see a good friend perform. Mr. 1994 was there. He was sitting at the table right in front of us.

    That night I had a dream about him. When I woke up, I saw it all very clearly from another perspective. I saw he and I as Spirit, BEFORE coming here in this body. As Spirit I said, “The next time around I really want to Value Myself.” He said, “Okay, I’ll be there for you.”

    I got it! We played out a soul-contract. We played it out in the dark. It was not pretty. It doesn’t make what he did okay. I never wish to speak with him or see him.

    Today I truly do VALUE ME.

    Its certainly been a journey, and I have told my husband that I’m glad I only had to do it once, but if I had to – I would go through what I did 1,000 times to have what we have now.

    I know it is possible for each of You to create the relationship of your dreams. It can be REAL! It starts with You and the tools and techniques for you to do it are Right Here.

    Big Hug each of you!

  93.  #93DocK on March 3, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Orna, I absolutely agree. Relationships teach us so much about ourselves. I have had to dig deep to understand why I attracted some of what I attracted. Like you, that doesn’t excuse a person’s painful or abusive behavior, but it gifts us an opportunity to heal. And how do we heal? Like you said, we use the tools we learn and we develop the awareness to see if we are moving towards the familiar, but, painful path. Like Rori said “we are never NOT a work-in-progress.”

  94.  #94Star on March 3, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    I’m 29 years old and I would really like to get into a serious, loving and committed relationship with a guy who excites me and is good for me. I recently saw a guy friend of mines get engaged to a woman. He and I had a sexual tension for a while but I would always deflect his attention. I also felt frustrated by him never asking me out on a date but only asking me to group fun hings at his house so after a 3 month trip overseas I started to pull away. It was only within the past month, before I found out about his engagement that I thought that I’d stop deflecting and reciprocate. But of course I was too late. I likely wouldn’t have worked anyway because we just don’t communicate well.

    So now I am in an online relationship with a guy overseas. He is totally my type. I’m a fashion designer & he’s a product designer and he is sucessful and gorgeous & my age as well. I feel like I got into our relationship though the friend route. I saw something that he designed online and contacted him through a social site to say that he inspired me, he then saw my work & said the same. From there then we have be talking online for the past 2.5 months. He’ll be coming to Miami for a music event/ vacation in 15 days & I have told him that he is invited to come to NY from since our early conversation. He said that he would love to and will try & now then he just winked when I said it. This feel tough. I haven’t said to him that I like him & I also feel like I’d like to meet him in person before deciding if I like him for a future spouse. At the same time I think about him alot, we chat everyday and I am interested in marriage.

    I feel like I haven’t expressed loving feelings towards him or turned on the I want to be your lover mode or vibe because I am unsure about myself or us and what he may want and don’t want to be inappropriate @ the same time maybe my lack of this has led to the lack of things moving in that direction.

    What can I do?

  95.  #95Orna Walters on March 3, 2010 at 12:59 pm


    Yes! Yes! If we’re not growin’ we’re dyin’! 🙂

    Thank you, your post made me feel happy!

    Big Hug,

  96.  #96Linda on March 3, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    Thank you Doc You are so kind to share this insight with me.

    I found this site a year and a half ago. I had lost the man I was head over heals for. We were the perfect match…. I could not have been happier. THen one day he just left. said he did not love me. I had no warning and I WAS DEVISTATED.

    Since then I have done lots of personal work, learning to love myself, invest in me etc. I am much stronger than I was but I am still human and have lots to learn. As thing with S have gone in and out and up and down I relied on things I learned here. Keeping things real, not living in the land of imagination, leaning back, learning to relax.. knowing if he did not call then he just did not want to and if he was not in front of me he was not real. I circular dated, found things I like, meet up groups etc. It kept me grounded and this event even though is really really disappointing I feel different this time. I am not devistated and undone but as you say relieved. I do grieve what won’t be…I have had pangs of weepy today. Our faith, going to church, prayer was tied in this time. I hung out with his children, friends.. had his grand children in my home this week end. The things that he and I planned and did together and talked about doing.. I will miss. The good things…. but what I wont miss is how I felt when he was disengaged and quiet and would not look at me. Slept with his back to me, was unattentive etc etc. WHen that happened I thought.. “this is not what you want, this feels icky and those things happened more and more” My boy would protect my girl and I would leave, do what I wanted, not text or call…

    Some of the things I need most.. a good night call, or text. A I love you , a note etc.. you know things that involve emotions and giving…. he NEVER did. Well maybe twice. I think that helped me keep from getting attached and makes it easier too.

    In all I can not be with someone who lies period. If he really valued me and what we had together he would not have done what he did and would have not let me walk away so easily. There was once last summer when I drew some lines in the sand and walked away… before I knew it he was expressing sorrow… all loving.. etc. The cycle is all really unhealthy. I had to stop the madness and take care of me.

    I know I will cry but I know I did what was right because, he is not trustworthy and he does not intend to give himself emotionally to me. He is mostly a taker, selfish, depressed, slothful, self loathing… I would way 75% of the time. It is very draining.

    I have a great new(to me) beemer now and I dont care that he is stranded. He chose that himself. It did not have to come to this but things are what they are. I feel badly for the women he is talking to now. He is half truthing them. I feel protective of them and want to fink him out. I wont though, They will grow too. I hope.

    Hugs Linda

  97.  #97Daria on March 3, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    Linda – im feeling really uncomfortable saying anything, here i go sloshing thru the muddy tunnel. i feel unworthy and afraid and cowered down. well the truth is

    – “He is mostly a taker, selfish, depressed, slothful, self loathing… I would way 75% of the time. – ” – . i feel terribly down and concerned reading this… and angry too.

    =( these labels feel bad. I feel angry reading what this relationship was like for you…

    are these labels a cover for the feeling of ANGER?

  98.  #98Simply Shannon on March 3, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    Orna: I love what you wrote! I feel awful that you had to go through that terrible time but wow! What would be considered awful was really a “hidden” blessing. Without that event in your life, you might have stayed where you were. For whatever reason, you needed something that powerful to propel you forward… to cause you to change. In a book I’m reading (A Million Miles in a Thousand Years by Donald Miller), he would call that an inciting incident.

    Even through all of the horrible, messy mistakes I have made, they all brought me here. I can be thankful and feel blessed for ALL OF IT because it is all a part of me. And I love me.

    Blessings and love, Shannon

  99.  #99Simply Shannon on March 3, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    Dock, So weird that you wrote “work-in-progress”. I just wrote those words as a part of my facebook status today. I no longer believe in coincidences so very cool to see those words again today! 😉

  100.  #100tinque on March 3, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    Another situation to consider is attracting someone who brings into your life something that FEELS like a trauma, is a trauma to the psyche, yet it’s a gift, an opportunity to dig down deeply and release old fears that have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the trigger that was aroused in you.
    To have run away from this trigger and the man would not only have caused this same kind of thing to reappear at another time, it would have meant abandoning what turned out to be the my brand of white knight in shining armor, an amazing man, my true love.
    Love brings up anything unlike itself to be healed.

  101.  #101heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    Orna – have you read any of Michael Newton’s books e.g. Journey of Souls? What you wrote reminded me of that – I read it recently and feel excited and curious to read more. So my heart gave a little leap when I read your comment on 1994 guy – and glad you’re happy now xx

  102.  #102Tina on March 3, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    I was feeling oh yeah FEELING sexually attracted to interent wireless guy. His eyes lite up like a Christmas tree when I opened the door, he had a big smile. I felt like staring at every inch of his face. I felt a little embarressed because I thought for sure he was reading my mind. The attraction for me wasnt immediate cause I just woke up. I was like waaaaaaaa? who are you? he says uh you called for wireless, I said Oh, just a sec. I noticed his smile right a way.

    He said he doenst usually do residence, he does commerical, I thought oh what a quwinkidink! nice! I could have stared back at him smiling all day long *sigh. I like to think he felt it too 🙂 I want to believe we had a moment. I got all bashful when we locked eyes. I had to look away. I did look away first hehe. I felt all turned on right down into my vagjayjay 🙂

  103.  #103heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    I feel happy to read all the Yays for Linda and would like to add mine too – Yay!!

    It feels like affirmation for me too. I made a big leap for myself recently. Although the circumstances were different, I felt unhappy and too embarrassed to write how things became. And then everything got eclipsed by my bereavement.

    I give myself a pat on the back. Thank you.

    Even though I sometimes feel confused by my thoughts and ideas and catch myself backpeddling.


  104.  #104docK on March 3, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    OK. I am going to blame Rori for this for teaching us to open our vibe…Phone rings at work on the main line. I say this is “DocK” & caller says’ “Hi this is so & so. I met you A FEW YEARS AGO at the gym. Do you remember me?”. ‘Uh no’ I say. He says “Well I was calling you to ask you to dinner but I guess that could be awkward if you don’t remember who the hell I am!”. DUH. I guess I would have to say 3 years MAY just meet my “deal breaker” time limit of how long is too long to wait to call. LOL! Not that I ever gave him my phone number. He tracked me down somehow. I feel big ICK & triggered. SO Rori, where’s the off button on the open vibe?

  105.  #105Linda on March 3, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Daria… I feel a profound impact in something you said…. “I see walking away from a man and saying NO is love, like staying with a man and saying YES might not be”

    Your statement about love for me and for the other person too. Bare with me here….Walking away says, I have standard, I love me, I value myself. What you are doing is unacceptable to me. That seems like our normal thought path… but the profound impact to me here is…. walking away is loving because it enforces…this is my standard, I LOVE me, I VALUE me, you are behaving badly and you cant have me in your life. The offering of love to them is… my walking away says straighten up, do right by me… I love you enough to not let you get by with this stuff . If you want me …then step up. I could well be the only person that will tell you the truth. If you care and want better… STEP UP. Walking away is loving and could be inspiring IF the person wants or lets it be. Staying and forgiving… waiting, talking thru, understanding even speaking your piece but staying is NOT loving but the opposite. But it probably is only enableing the bad behavior to continue. Even though it feels loving… it brings you down and does not require growth in the other person or the relationship if is going to exsist.

    Either way… you win. You love yourself, you have protected you and maybe just maybe the other person will get the message, maybe even change up. If they dont well they dont get the relationship they could have had with you. I see hope in the statement.

    These are just my thoughts, maybe not what you had in mind at all or what it meant to you. Just what came to me like a light bulb….

    People say… kick them to the curb…. instead walk away and say why that feels much better to me.


  106.  #106heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    I feel terrible every morning when I wake up. I feel my heart clench and I feel numb or I cry until my legs are kicking. I feel like I’m on a wheel going round and round. Everything is grey, groundhog day on and on. Often I feel like giving up and staying in bed.

    I feel soooo tired but when I get into work I feel as if I’m rising into light again. Sometimes I get to feeling full and passionate and excited.

    I HATE FEELING THIS WAY. I feel out of control, start talking to myself in my head “got to get your act together” “got to get those dishes washed, you’ll feel good about yourself then”. I feel BORED.

    Tonight I felt inspired and looked up Skyros holidays. I feel excited, thinking of booking myself a week at the end of May.

    I feel excited about doing something dare-devilishly different. I also feel inspired thinking about clearing out old stuff from my apartment and decorating it.

    I could do both! “Uh what about the money” “you’re running away”

    I feel a bit lost.

    I hid my profile. I feel drained replying to strangers. I feel interested in meeting men at events or socially.

    What kind of feeling messages can I give to new men online? “Er this morning I feel despair. Excuse me while I take a bite out of my chair. What do you think?”

    I feel a plan coming on.

    How to get off the wheel. Finding Heartbeat <3

  107.  #107heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    Linda – “The offering of love to them is… my walking away says straighten up, do right by me… I love you enough to not let you get by with this stuff . If you want me …then step up.”

    Another Yay for you ! I love this! xx

  108.  #108Linda on March 3, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    Daria the things I listed are not labels nor are they anger. The are an accurate description of his behavior and ways he described himself. I just let him be those things and did my own thing. But they dont lead to companionship. Something I desire very much.

    So I was not angry.. just accurate description is all. Laying in the same clothes for 2 days and mindlessly clicking and sleeping thru TV.. instead of looking for work and saying he did not know what he was gonna do is… slothful.


  109.  #109gina on March 3, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    I feel so frustrated….walk away and say why: I guess that’s good advice for me right now. URRGH! i thought this guy was so super cute and I was so excited to start fresh and I was forgetting what’s his face, and then this guy became what’s his face. And I’m back to feeling confused and frustrated and anxious and angry. WHAT AM I DOING TO PERPETUATE THIS PATTERN? This guy approached me and asked for my number. He came to see me the very next day. And yet, ever since then, it’s been super flirty texts that go nowhere. I feel like giving him the “i’m not interested in pursuing friendships with men right now” speech next time he does text. Urgh.
    When he did come see me, it was at my apartment. We didn’t kiss, but he was affectionately leaning on me and playing with my hands and stuff. Was this unwise of me to let him come over?? Does he not value me? I don’t feel cared for or valued or special. I feel crummy.
    He said something interesting: he was talking about how my roommate is foolish for dating a married guy cause the fact that she drives to see him is evidence (to him) that the married guy is likely seeing other people in addition to my roommate. He said that either the guy bends to the girl, or the girl bends to the guy. If the girl is bending, it’s because the guy isn’t putting in the work, and most likely, it’s cause he doesn’t have enough energy to give her cause he’s got lots of girls bending to him. interesting…

  110.  #110heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    I feel like a ball in a pinball machine. I don’t know whether to roll with the random, or get some serious coaching.

    I just want to let go and fly and tumble. I feel constrained by ‘reality’. Too much noise at home. Stomping neighbours upstairs. Miaowing cats. My son going in and out the bathroom and in and out the kitchen. I feel like screaming, I’m on a really short fuse.

    I want to cry and collapse, or pack up and hit the road.

  111.  #111heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    Tinque – only just seen your comment – yes, yes I’ve learnt so much – thank you for what you wrote, it feels like a reminder. I feel impressed with how I handled things, how I communicated, how little drama there was. Yet deep feelings of trauma.

    And now chaos.

    I don’t want to think about it or figure it out. I’m tired of being a therapist. I RESENT being a therapist, I feel like buying a camper van and running away to India.

    OK now I feel like laughing.

    Dammit I FEEL CRAZY

  112.  #112heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    I go to work on autopilot. Then I seem to wake up. Then it all greys over when I leave for home again.

    Hamster wheel.

    I feel ANGRY and TRAPPED

    I wish I could just go crazy and make crazy changes.

    What crazy changes can I make?

    I commit to doing something crazy every day.

    Now I feel a little scared.

    I bought a dress tonight with purple and pink roses on it. A SHORT dress. Fitted. I bought it on autopilot but I love it. Now I want to cut a fringe and have more highlights. But I don’t want crazy hair, just a CHANGE.

    Would someone tell me what to do please? Am I on the right track?

    I feel lost. No I don’t. Yes I do no I don’t yes no

  113.  #113heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    And yet i feel more magnificent than ever. I feel constrained though.

  114.  #114tinque on March 3, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    Heartbeat – Go for it. I would love to go to India.
    I have a friend who traveled the world for over a year a couple of years ago, India being one of the countries to which she went. I don’t know how she did it, for she’s not wealthy, but she did, and she did it alone, and had the best of times.
    Crazy is good, and go ahead and laugh, laugh, laugh. It’s the best medicine. I do it every chance I get. I’ve become very good at entertaining myself with my silliness.

  115.  #115tinque on March 3, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    I LOVE the dress. I want one. We could both go to India in your camper van though the ocean might be a problem, wearing short dresses with purple and pink roses on them. I look bad in a fringe, but you should try it. Highlights are fun, especially with spring around the corner.

  116.  #116Tina on March 3, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    Rori, I put the age of men I was looking for between 18-99 🙂

  117.  #117tinque on March 3, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    Tina you crack me up.

  118.  #118heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    I started working backwards through the comments. Then I stopped. I feel wierd. I feel a bit jealous of the woman in the post. Because Rori answered her and yet I haven’t heard from Rori, and I’ve had a bereavement and trying to stay on my bridge too.

    I feel embarrassed writing that.

    I feel confused and invisible. And then I rationalize it – like really it’s a compliment “you’re doing ok, you don’t need anything from me”

    But I would like to hear from Rori. I feel sad and a little angry.

    Which brings up a whole chorus of messages. “Attention-seeker. You’re not worth it. You’re unimportant.” messages I want to stuff right down or even believe.

    What did I just write??

    “Messages I want to stuff right down OR EVEN BELIEVE” wtf?

    I feel relieved writing all that too.

    Excuse me while I go and shrivel in a corner for a bit. No – no I’m not going to do that.

    I’m imagining a daffodil trying to squeeze it’s flowerhead out of the bud.

  119.  #119heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    Tinque – lol!! I’m going for a fringe, with copper blonde highlights. I want India to come to me! Heck. Ok gal I’ll get the van and we’ll go! xx

    Tina you crack me up too 🙂 THANK YOU xx

  120.  #120Lucy on March 3, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    Count me in for India too!!!!

  121.  #121heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    I feel enormously amused now…

    I’m just a big belly and squelchy red mouth, booming out across the whole universe.

    All the warships have stopped in amazement, so have the whales and escalators and coffee machines.


    Angry ROAR!!! Laughing ROAR!!!!


  122.  #122Lucy on March 3, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    heartbeat — One thing I have learned is that whatever is happening at the moment is what I need. So, in this moment, for example, NOT hearing from Rori would be what you need. For me, I would take that moment and FEEL the feelings that come up about it, keep feeling them, and drop any “stories” that come into my mind (e.g., “You’re not worth it” etc.). Just allow myself to FEEL, because that’s where the healing can take place. <3

  123.  #123heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    Yay Lucy!!!!!!! We’re on our way 🙂 xx

  124.  #124heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 3:48 pm


  125.  #125Tina on March 3, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    Tinque 🙂

  126.  #126Lucy on March 3, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    I have learned that I am able to heal, teach, nurture, and guide MYSELF by using whatever is in my life at the moment — in the presence OR absence of external human teachers. When the human teachers aren’t giving me what I think or feel like I need, there is a reason for that: it is because in that moment the outside teacher is NOT what I need (although I admit it FEELS so good to be externally heard and validated!!!)

  127.  #127tinque on March 3, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    Shhhhh Heartbeat – I’m trying to write an article, a very serious article. LOL 🙂
    I said this the other day, maybe here, maybe elsewhere.
    The waters get murky, and then they clear. And when they do….YUM.

  128.  #128tinque on March 3, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    Yes Lucy!!!

  129.  #129heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    Lucy yes – today I keep remembering a story from many years ago – 15 years – when I was training – I led my group to a room in an unfamiliar part of the campus (I was a tracker dog in a previous life, I can find my way ANYWHERE) and as soon as the trainer appeared I moved myself from the front of the queue (the door was locked) and HID in the middle.

    A fellow student said “You always do that” I said “What?” She said “Hide yourself”.

    I felt really embarrassed. Because at a deep level I know that’s true. It’s true where it MATTERS.

    I’m out front in so many ways – in public life, public speaking, leading the way at work and in projects, showing my art/writing and achieving.

    But this business of hiding personally plays itself out in my relationships over and over again.

    I RELEASE YOU, old message!!!

  130.  #130heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    Tinque –

    🙂 XX

  131.  #131Goodheart on March 3, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    I love reading these posts.

    Heartbeat, I can totally relate to what you wrote about the morning dread. Once I’m up & at work or “doing,” I’m fine. Mornings suck for me though. I feel gray & hopeless. Alone. Where is my guy to wake up to? Where’s my motivation in life? I just want to snuggle down into the covers & forget life.

    Then I get up & I feel fine. I go to work. I see my friends. I volunteer at the animal shelter. I shop. Lord, do I shop. And I feel hunky dorey.

    Change is good – hair, clothes, decor. I do it all the time. Tonight I feel like getting a new purse. Maybe it will attract money 🙂

    I feel I need help with my online profile. I am attracting no one. Literally. And what cracks me up is all the activity stopped the very second my age went from 44 to 45. The day before my birthday I got emails. The day after my birthday, no emails. I got old overnight lol!

    Maybe that’s why mornings are bleak.

    Wouldn’t it be great if we could all do like A RORI RAYE CRUISE or something? Groovy.

  132.  #132heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    Even internet dating feels too leaning forward at the moment for me. I feel like being Crazy Woman and going out in my pink and purple roses dress and letting men turn up wherever, whatever.

    I put myself in the middle of this space.

    I’ll just be as broken as I am.

    That’s all.

    Oh and masturbate a lot LOL!! 🙂

    But not in public. Phew.

  133.  #133heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    Goodheart I LOVE that! A Rori Raye Cruise – bookings being taken right now – roll up! Roll up!

  134.  #134Turtle Girl on March 3, 2010 at 4:11 pm


    I so love you all over the pages, all over the world (India) beautiful, wonderful, messy chaos!!!! Creating your emotions, figuring out what is up, who you are, how to be, go do, etc etc.

    You are like a beautiful Van Gogh painting—-art.
    Beautiful. As any artist knows, the end result comes about from the mess and chaos in the process. It is impossible to get to the good stuff without going through the mess. You see?

    You are fabulous, full of love, full of good stuff.
    One foot out, dance, love, dream, run.

    Turtle xxxoooxxxooo

  135.  #135Goodheart on March 3, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    I just had a revelation! Was thinking back to something Rori said – about men being messengers. We learn to heal things inside ourselves by listening to the messages they deliver. She said that if you are no longer meeting men that want to hurt you, you are making strong progress. I think I hit that last year. I wasn’t meeting any hurtful men anymore, just all sorts of other types!

    Now, I’m not meeting anyone.

    Could that mean? Is it possible? Could I have learned my love lessons? Is it time? Maybe just maybe time for THE ONE?

    Ohhh, big sigh. So much to hope for. I feel such glee for a moment & then those old feelings come back. “Everytime you think you’ve met HIM, you haven’t.” And so it goes. Then I feel down again. How do you dare to hope? Seems like I have more lessons to learn than most.

    Or maybe I’m just dense lol?

  136.  #136Rori Raye on March 3, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    Star, Welcome – and just please keep this in mind. If you haven’t met him – there’s NOTHING THERE. Nothing is happening. Nothing happens until you meet a man. You can talk for years by email and phone, and still, nothing happens. A man does not fall in love with a woman who looks good on paper, and if you’re honest with yourself, neither would you. Please just stop focusing on him (do nothing but return his emails) and Circular Date. Love, Rori

  137.  #137heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    Turtle Girl – THANK YOU. The way you put it makes me really begin to LOVE this chaos. I do, yes.

    Yes yes yes.

    Thanks for being here with me xx

  138.  #138Turtle Girl on March 3, 2010 at 4:16 pm


    I support your “labels” of S. My ex is just that as well. Selfish, self centered, toxic, lier. He just is. He can’t help it. It is what he learned, what he knows, how he sees. Behind his wall, under his rock, it is safe and protective to him. He is chicken shit because he can not be any other way. It feels habit and right to him. He is own his path to whatever it is he has to learn. You can not change S and I can not change ex toxic man. They just are for now. Maybe your choice had an impact for S and maybe me choice had an impact for Mr. toxic man, but we may never know that and it does not matter.

    Daria- this whole moral high ground for not labeling pisses me off. I feel angry. A label is not necessarily a judgment. It is something we use and it is a tool. You are free to feel triggered by it of course. I am just saying that for me, I am not all that G-damn “spiritually enlightened” to not call a spade a spade. My ex is what he is to me-period.
    Just as is his little pea brain-I am probably “needy and “too nice”. So be it.

  139.  #139Lucy on March 3, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    Oh Goodheart!!!! A Rori Raye Cruise!!!! Amazing idea!!!

    About your profile– I found that when I was able to find out and sink into who I REALLY am and then SHARE THAT in both words and pictures (instead of creating a profile that I thought had all the “right” elements to attract what I wanted) I started attracting tons of men, most of whom are very close to what I want (or are at least interesting to me!!)

    Tinque – thanks! 🙂

    Heartbeat– I feel happy you are releasing old messages!!!

  140.  #140heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    Goodheart – maybe it’s just FABULOUS being single sometimes? I’d love to celebrate being MAGNIFICENTLY SINGLE with you <3


  141.  #141Turtle Girl on March 3, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    Oh yes!!

    There are days when single is just delicious! Freedom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  142.  #142Lucy on March 3, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    I’m gonna step out on a limb here. Turtle Girl — Maybe Daria isn’t coming from a “moral high ground” when she addresses the labeling issue. Maybe she is trying to direct attention to the deeper aspects of what is going on, which, it is true, labels tend to obscure. Maybe when we are less quick to assign labels we are able to see things differently and able to heal places that we couldn’t otherwise heal. That does not mean that labeling is wrong or bad — and I agree that it is useful as a tool sometimes to communicate information. But maybe the act of NOT labeling is a useful tool, too, allowing us to gain a different perspective of both ourselves and the person we want to label. What do you think? 🙂

  143.  #143heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    I’d love to feel that way in a relationship – freedom!!!! I’m really good at being single – or rather, I was. What do I mean?

    I started feeling lonely a couple of years ago, it was a terrible loneliness, the loneliness of whole planets, not just one small woman in a bed somewhere near Liverpool. That was after I started to REALLY love people close to me.

    It’s not that I didn’t love before, but I kind of kept it to myself, from myself even. I don’t think I acknowledged any real attachment. Well I learned not to, I guess – I can’t remember – and it doesn’t help going over the past, but that FEELS true. As true as my hand is my hand.

  144.  #144Turtle Girl on March 3, 2010 at 4:40 pm


    Maybe she isn’t coming from the moral high ground. That’s just what it feels like to me. If not-fine. ok no big thing. But not labeling feels worse, then I have no way to describe what is is, how he behaves. Language itself is a tool and albeit sometimes not a very good one-the only one we have.

    Sure a label of “selfish” -what does that mean? To one person maybe self protection. To another, a healthy self love-to another something very different and mean and so on and so on.

    Mr toxic man ex is selfish and self centered. Now, maybe the reason is because he has bee burned in the past, his momma taught him to be that way, he hates women, I could go on for years as to why. So what? Does that make one tinkers damn when it came to our relationship. No. Because he was that way around me. Period. So that is how I “label” him, because that is how he was. I am not his therapist, or his mother. I did not raise him nor can I fix him.
    And me understanding the deeper aspects of what is going on does not change anything about his behavior. It does not even help me. Nothing changes. I had to leave because he acted this way.

    Here is what I find very interesting. When we label someone as good, loving, wonderful, giving, enlightened, helpful, kind, etc. NO ONE ever tells us to stop labeling them that way, no one ever says, that triggers me. Why not? Hmmmmm??? What say you?

  145.  #145Turtle Girl on March 3, 2010 at 4:44 pm


    You description of feeling lonely is like reading my own book. I started feeling this way about a couple years ago too! And after I started REALLY loving people!

    I had a much easier time being single before that -before I “Opened up” more. So we give the feelings of love stronger when we open, but also the other stuff as well. It is a bizarre side effect of the inner change that has been going on with me. I so get what you mean!

  146.  #146heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    Turtle Girl – your comments feel so refreshing! And I relate to your story too. Feels like we’re on parallel paths. I too ended a relationship that became toxic for me – I felt that way a lot of the time in fact, and experimented and used the tools and new ways of communicating. For much of the time the relationship opened and gradually inched forward, but in the end I felt my boundaries very clearly. He had so many issues and there was too much distance, and it didn’t feel like love any more to me, not when he made choices which he knew were hurtful to me. It felt like swimming in thick sump oil…


  147.  #147Lucy on March 3, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    Turtle Girl — For me, no longer labeling my ex-spouse happened naturally as an aspect of my own healing. I did not think to myself “I will stop labeling him” — I just stopped, almost imperceptibly at first, because I came to know that it was never really about those things that I had labeled him, it was much deeper than “selfish” and “addicted” and “bastard.”

    Hmmm. Maybe trying to not label is putting the cart before the horse. Maybe the healing has to take place FIRST, and then the labeling is no longer helpful, and not-labeling becomes helpful.

    “But not labeling feels worse, then I have no way to describe what is is, how he behaves.” Instead of “selfish,” it might be: “He always bought things for himself but he said we didn’t have money to buy our little girl a winter coat. I felt so angry! I feel so sad for all of us.” That change in focus does help me, and my family, because it is directed at the feeling level, rather than at the judging/labeling level.

  148.  #148Lucy on March 3, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    “When we label someone as good, loving, wonderful, giving, enlightened, helpful, kind, etc. NO ONE ever tells us to stop labeling them that way, no one ever says, that triggers me. Why not? Hmmmmm??? What say you?”

    Lol. I say that if someone labeled my ex-husband as “good, loving, wonderful, giving, enlightened, helpful, kind” I would feel triggered! 🙂

  149.  #149heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    I like your example, Lucy. It’s how I’ve learned to communicate, thanks to Rori:

    “You don’t want me to meet your friends – and I feel excluded and angry”

    “If you feel you need time on your own to work through your depression, that’s fine – I want you to take as much time as you need – but waiting feels awful to me, it feels like pressure”.

  150.  #150heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    I only feel triggered by labelling if I feel BLAME underneath the labelling.

    I don’t feel triggered by Turtle Girl’s descriptions of her ex, because it doesn’t feel like blame. Just stating how it was.

  151.  #151heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    “Sure, honey – you left me on my own for most of Xmas day to visit the friends you don’t want me to meet, two days after my sister’s funeral. And I feel like ripping your head off and stuffing it down the toilet”.

  152.  #152tinque on March 3, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    Oh and masturbate a lot LOL!! 🙂
    Heartbeat – you are girl after my own heart 🙂 lol

  153.  #153heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    And I NEVER want to feel THAT way again!!

    I announce that to the Universe AHOY!!

  154.  #154heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    Oh Tinque – our comments have got out of synch LOL!!

    Oh but I DO want to feel like – ahem – THAT again 🙂


  155.  #155Daria on March 3, 2010 at 5:17 pm


    oooohhh omygosh…

  156.  #156tinque on March 3, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    No AHEM needed Heartbeat. Just FEEL it. And it feel s yummier than yummy…

  157.  #157Daria on March 3, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    it gives the man the room and incentive to grow and be a BETTER MAN!

  158.  #158heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    I must away to bed now – it’s after 1am here.

    Thank you for being with me tonight.
    I gets my dress on… and I dances my crazy dance

    Night night Sirens xxxxxxxxxx

  159.  #159heartbeat on March 3, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    I will Tinque!!! 🙂 🙂 xx

    Night Daria – I’m loving your recent posts xx

  160.  #160Daria on March 3, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    something that Rori said about “chemistry” and “instant attraction” before has really opened up stuff for me.

    she said we may be attracted to a man because he reminds us of an ex in some way – at first i didnt think so but then found it to be true…


    as i began Circular Dating.., I dated men that were not my “type” – I was NOT attracted to them

    now, while dating a man like this, i felt guilty, uncomfortable, etc, all the “good” stuff lol


    AFTER I dated him, I found myself actually ATTRACTED to and at the least MORE COMFORTABLE WITH men who looked or seemed like him and his type!!

    it was like minesweeper… i dated one lil square, and a whole plain of squares opened up…


    So this is why I really like dating men even when I’m not instantly attracted to them because they dress different, speak different, sound funny, or something else about them…

    because then I will meet other men in some ways LIKE them, and I have a better chance to actually feel attracted to one of these men, that would otherwise not have been on my radar!! it may even be the original man, maybe not

    WELLLLLL that was my 1st point

    my equally exciting 2nd point is

    this is a reason why i feel that i BENEFIT men by allowing them to date me.

    Becauese i think the same thing happens with them!!

    That is, maybe they’re not ready and able to step up with me. So they go do their own thing after meeting me or can’t step up or whatever.

    BUT – after having met me, a Goddess who values herself and requires stuff…

    In the future they are more ABLE to relate and step up to another woman that is similar to me. It has expanded their comfort zone and thus their capabilities.

    They may not have been willing to drive to me, they felt too much resistance. But they will be more willing to drive to the next woman they have feelings for, because they already took the first babystep with me…


    so that they can have a GODDESS!!

    so I really feel like I bless every man, including the man I was dating today, that had resistance.


  161.  #161Lucy on March 3, 2010 at 6:26 pm

    I feel frustrated and disappointed in myself. 🙁 But I am not beating myself up.

    “Sanskrit man” and I started emailing each other (via dating site) a couple days ago. I was doing GREAT with leaning back, girl energy, feeling messages, etc. When he asked for my phone number today, and said he would like to call tonight, I gave him my number, and wrote “I feel good but nervous about you calling (I am not much of a phone person!)”

    So, he called, and at first I was doing well — even made it through a fairly long period of silence! Which we then talked about, and he said he is comfortable with because of all his silent meditations, etc. (He traveled for 10 years to all different countries — I think India too! lol — experiencing different cultures and spirituality).

    But soon it became too tiring, too emotionally and mentally draining, for me to keep leaning back, using feeling messages, etc. and so I just became “chatty cathy” and the conversation went GREAT and we laughed and shared so much — BUT I was not doing it “right” 🙁 I guess I was talking like a boy. Like a boy chatty cathy.)

    So I feel like I blew it. I failed. That was actually my FIRST phone conversation with ANY dating site guy. Remember, I am the text/email/meet-in-person, but NO PHONE CALLS girl???!!!

    I tried it because he wanted to, and because everyone on here (except Erika) says it’s the way to go.

    I did not like it. In person, I can see their face, smile at them in the silence. Communicate between the words. Pause to DECIDE what to say, to choose my words, and they know that’s what I am doing, because I am right in front of them and they can tell by looking at me that I am deciding what to say, but on the phone they don’t know what I am doing in that pause — I might be rolling my eyes. They might be rolling theirs. I like in-person.

    And in text/email, I can pause to decide, to choose my words as well. I like text/email.

    I do not like the phone. I don’t even talk to my friends on the phone.

    With sanskrit man I babbled, blah blah blah, because I didn’t feel like I was able to choose my words using the phone.

    So I feel annoyed and a little sad.

    But I feel proud of myself for trying.

    While we were on the phone, he mapquested where I live, said it was 90 minutes away, and that that wasn’t too bad.

    I don’t know if I want to meet him or not.

  162.  #162Lucy on March 3, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    Daria — I feel sad that I didn’t help him get used to a Goddess. 🙁

  163.  #163Lucy on March 3, 2010 at 6:28 pm

    Ooh, that feels bad reading what I just wrote! Yes, he was talking to a goddess. But I wasn’t talking very goddess-like. Is that better?

  164.  #164Star on March 3, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    Thank you so much Rori for responding to my message. I am doing just that. I am no longer focusing on him. He has my email address & I have invited him to visit me in NY. If he wants to come then he will come. If he wants a real relationship with me then he will seek it out. I’m just so hungry for a loving, honest, exciting relationship (and actually worried about not having one and worried about whether I am able to have one) that I’ve been settling for this kind of relationship with a person that I find to be desirable. Honestly, he has to want me and I think that what’s most important is that I have to realize how desireable and valuable I am.

    As a woman then I will allow myself to be the receiver of love. 2 great things that I’ve started to do is yoga and pleasuring myself. Yoga is great because it releases the stress of my life & worries, helps me feel at ease and calm & pleasuring myself has been a real awakening.

    I’m a virgin and I thought that masturbating wasn’t good because I should save all of that pleasure having for when I’m married. But what I realized is that I did not know myself in that intimate way and I did not know the value of my body. The/ my female body is so complex and wonderful and I feel so greatful to be able to satisfy myself. Now I know the gift that I will be sharing with my future husband.

    I had an epiphany- this internet man will never go to leaps and bounds for me or even come to NY to see me if I’m just there on the other side of the world on the computer when he feels bored.

    I am now only going to respond to his messages. I am too interested in him. It’s time that he be interested in me. It’s time that he come to the Queen.

    & this seems like a great community. I’m happy to work this stuff out. & I look forward to all of our successes. I will get what’s mine & what’s best. I am realizing my value and it is being clear for all men to see and the great ones to want.

  165.  #165Daria on March 3, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    Grr Linda-

    I was hoping you were gonna say ! YESS i feel ANGER!!! I FEEL OUTRAGE!!! ROARRR


    I feel alil uncomfortable about those not being labels because they are labels even tho they may be descriptive in a way that resonates with you.

    I feel a lil sad about slothful cuz sometimes I will lay down in same clothes for days and not “do” stuff –



    I FEEL GLAD so glad you got your car back the way you did Linda.

    That is REALLY REALLY BIG. I feel very fulfilled by this. LIke yes! my team is winning. we have a strong and powerful team. My team is doing good. YAY.

    What you said he was saying to you as you were doing it… OMGOSH “guilt trip” I CANT STAND!!!! WHEN A MAN GUILT TRIPS ME… UGH it makes me feel GROSSSSSSS.

    Totally turned off.

    Gooo team Goddess~!! We are winning on the way to happy life!!!

  166.  #166Daria on March 3, 2010 at 8:33 pm

    Tutle Girl – not labeling is part of the Rori Raye tools.

    It has really helped me as I came from a very judgemental way of thinking and I’m STILL oh boy yes I still have a lot of healing on that one.

    I feel triggered.

    you can call a spade a spade but its not really a spade just because you called it one

    but you ARE going to keep seeing a spade if you call it one

    if you call it … BE SURPRISED! then you might just be surprised to see it change from a spade to a heart

    I feel hot in the knees and tightened up! I feel upset ! I do not like the idea of ‘moral highground.’

    Labeling and judgements DON’T FEEL GOOD to me. Sometimes they may feel good in humor…

    Rori has talked before about judgements and labels.

    She said that when we label and judge someone, WE ARE ALSO AT THE SAME TIME labeling and judging OURSELVES.

    And vice-versa!

    And yes I felt surprised to see this be true.

    And I don’t want Linda to judge herself by judging someone else, because that wouldn’t feel good.

    That’s why I am committed to expressing what does and doesn’t feel good even when it triggers stuff in me and others.

    Because I want healing for myself and all the Goddesses.

    I wish we had a full blog search box so we can search past posts. I have seen this on other blogs. I will ask Rori if she can add that. Taht would be great because there are past posts way back that she addressed this and it was WHOA.

    I feel judgemental of myself right now like I’m secretly on moral highground like ohhhh… i know this because I have been posting for a long time and read Rori’s posts before – SO WHAT!!! THANK YOU NVSSS. I LOVE MYSELF.

    I FEEL angry.

    Back to reading now. Reading feels captivating.

  167.  #167Daria on March 3, 2010 at 8:47 pm

















    – THERE! OK










    i feel a sigh of relief


    im gonna post this i hope you know



    this is gonna probably increase the hate

    well i dont want that

    but i do want to let out my inner drama queen

    cuz i cant take the BEING NICE ANYMORE to being attacked

    and people didnt even think i was being nice when i was

    shit i didnt even know i was being nice

    but i was





    yeah lol i do this to men too sometimes


    i look forward to healing.

    thank you.

    i feeel unsure and shaky

  168.  #168Star on March 3, 2010 at 9:20 pm

    OMG!!! handle that! You gotta be able to dish it & take it. Wow! try to be lighter & work through your frustrations in a better way. I feel upset sometimes too but you know what- patience is such a good thing. you gotta process your shitty feeling to a level when you can look at them and work things out. Not just dump on folks.

  169.  #169Daria on March 3, 2010 at 9:26 pm


    so right after i finished my lil tirade of expression above i got the call from the sexy man that i was so looking forward to his date because he seems such a lean forward man and knows how to date…


    he was supposed to take me to spoken word poetry at 9 which ive never been to in person and i was REALLY looking forward to since we planned it a few days ago

    so now he calls its 10 minutes to 9 and im like yay

    i figure he must have meant he was gonna call me at 9 not pick me up then i was not really ready since he hadnt called

    so he says


    how have you been blah blah are you still down to go out tonite?

    i said yes!

    he says ok… well do you want to drive or do you want me to pick u up?

    i said… um well if you pick me up that would feel better for me

    he said well the thing is, if i pick u up, we’re gonna miss most of the thing… so it would be better if you could drive and meet me there that way we’ll make it
    cuz im in … (which is 40 min away,) and the thing is (close by there)

    IM thinking : whaaa????? wtf u didnt plan this right then… now u want me to drive…???

    umm but i dont want to drive on dates

    im feeling upset… im feeling angry actually

    he says… wow you get angry easily (im thinking have i gotten angry at him before? i didnt think so…but anyway… that didnt feel good to hear)

    i said umm yeah well i feel disappointed….

    he said i mean we can still go out somewhere else, its just that if you want to go to this thing then wed only make it if you drive

    (ummm why you invite me then ???? i was REALLY looking forward to it….. i feel furious and disappointed)

    i said wow well im feeling really disappointed and upset, and actually i dont really want to go out at all anymore

    he said wow ok well do u want me to let u go and you think about it and call me back when youre feeling better

    i said… umm… well… im feeling disappointed yeah… yeah i do need some time to think about it… so if you want to call me later that would be better

    so we say bye and hang up



    i feel a lil concerned that men AREN’t willing to do the work of driving to pick me up consistently

    thats what the guy from the date this morning said

    at least it was a start that they are coming to me on the first date

    but wow! i had HIGH HOPES for this guy. he seemed like real good guy, and made the plans and everything… i feel really surprised and disappointed and upset

    my thought are saying that i seem really Rigid and Weird for not wanting to drive on dates.

    but i DONT. i would much rather not.

    so thank you.

    at least i have no problem attracting them

    they pop up everywhere i go out and online they want to know me

    surely the quality of stepping up is going up more and more, maybe this is a good pace for me so i dont get too overwhelmed and have huge swings…

    i heal my doubts thank u

    thank you thank you thank you

    i feel breathing out that feels good… and yawning feels good too..

    i feel tight in my tummy

    i feel pinchy wet in my bladder… i feel tight in my shoulder

    i love my tight tummy, pinchy wet bladder, and tight shoulder

    thank you

  170.  #170Daria on March 3, 2010 at 9:33 pm

    right on Star. I dont want to dump on people. I don’t think i’ve done that letting loose that voice before. im feeling overwhelmed and it was yelling at me to get out. i feel much more glad to get it out on blog than to direct it at someone in particular.

    one of my exes used to always trigger that in me, and strangely most of them DIDNT. but this one did, and i would yell at him and go crazy, and feel good but also well,,, not that close to him really

    hmm yes im wanting to heal it

    the first thing to healing it is to put it out there to be SEEN

    that feels really scary because well… its freaking vulnerable

    to share what i think is shameful and what i judge aobut myself

    but i use this blog that way and its healed a lot of me

    and you know what… Rori said an email – (before i wrote that but i read it after) that said what you said

    to take in the feelings, let them sit and let myself process… and speak from the soft place

    so thanks i feel heard and supported

    i feel surprised at the coincidence.

    i feel a lil triggered and defensive at the very last sentence.

    i do LIKE responding directly and in teh moment. it feels very alive to me…

    and its a new message to me that when a man is saying upsetting stuff to me on teh phone, NOT to let it go but to IMMEDIATELY say whoa that doesnt feel good…

    because i used to jsut sit there and at the end i would feel “flooded” and wordless and maybe intensely shaking

    so i dont want that

    so maybe taking stuff in isnt all that on the phone with a man, but maybe in other instances, like reading … thats the way to go…

    so i can practice BOTH


    cool message

    i feel tired and bent over sideways and good and not good

  171.  #171Daria on March 3, 2010 at 9:40 pm

    you know what i jsut thought of?

    in the past i thought of myself as someone who couldn’t “tell someone off” – because except for this ex,

    when i feel attacked, i used to feel the “flooded” wordlessness, and intense hot shakyness

    and what i used to do is be QUIET. or else i could FIGHT. physically

    and i felt jealous of girls who would tell people off like

    oh btich blah blah

    well… i think thats healing… i think im starting to release my flood myself

    this comes from so many times my dad yelling at me and me shutting down

    thank you for the healing

    wooooshhhh flood out the gates

  172.  #172Star on March 3, 2010 at 10:52 pm

    I understand that jealousy for the person who just tells a person off. I think that it’s imagining that that person has actually released their anger and now they’re fine that would have in the past made me envy those people. But I notice that those folks just end up always having to tell people off and hurt other peoples feelings. And afterwards then they will probably either worry about the harm that they caused the person through sharp words or feel continued anger towards the person for triggering that reaction. So those people actually don’t have the upper-hand when it comes to coping with emotions.

    There are times when I’ve gotten so mad that I feel like my brain is rattling- this happened last week. Talking about it didn’t even make me feel better but actually dealing with the problem made things better. Also, I keep a journal so sometimes then I just curse the person out or the situation in my journal, I just let out what is in my head so that the anger can be moved and contained somewhere else- it’s a release, and then I don’t have to go on and ruin a relationship or deal with a situation harshly. I have cleared my head and it’s a way for me to be in control. Otherwise, when reacting to peoples triggers or tests etc then one can just be like a puppet on a string. People will always be jerking you around. When one can have inner-strength and resolve then it really allows a person to be graceful when dealing with tough situations & then you’re unstoppable.

    This is what I have found to be helpful.

  173.  #173Tina on March 3, 2010 at 10:58 pm

    Daria, that happened to me tonight, I was out at karaoke night. I noticed that 1 1/2 year man’s “girlfriend” was there. She approached me, she said “hi,Tina” I mumbled a hi back, thinking she would disappear. She didnt! She further said “Its’ because of him, thats why your not talking to me. I just looked at her blinking, I’m sure I had one of my “looks” on my face, she said “hey you broke up with him” She did eventually leave, thank god, I was dumbfounded like waaaaaaaaaaa? ok. later on in the night she came right up to my table and wanted to sit down, she started making movement like she was going too, I said really quickly with my hand up, I dont feel like talking right now to you. she said why not? I said, I just dont feel like talking about my personal feelings about my relationship with 1 1/2 year man, and I really dont feel like hearing your story about him either. She said Oh I broke up with him he was abusive , he hit me, see, I looked, there was no visible signs of abuse but whatever. I continued on, I dont feel comfortable with you or talking to you about my feelings right now. please go away. she said “oh, you think your all that huh? everybody looks down on you ! you think your better than everybody huh? anyway she left again. I felt furious that she would be do such a thing. grrrrrrr. She even did the head thing like “talk to the hand motion” YOU THINK YOUR ALL THAT HUH! then she walked off. She eventually left with a couple of guys but yeah the night got better.

  174.  #174Tina on March 3, 2010 at 11:04 pm

    I felt the urge to get in a fight tonight. My blood was rushing to my face, my heart was racing, I thought to myself “I can take her” bring it on bitch! hehe. She was drunk kinda so all I would have done was physically restrain her down on the floor, until the police arrived, hehe I was taught to do that. I dont like fighting , I dont like violence I feel unsafe around people with raised voices, the funny thing was two girls were dancing and one fell over the other one and I thought I would have to jump in and break it up lol. They just stumbled and broke some glasses on the floor . rough night at karaoke 🙁

    This usually doesnt happen at karaoke nights, were just a bunch of nerds thinking/feeling like ROCKSTARS! HEHE

  175.  #175Tina on March 3, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    My feelings of loving myself, I had to hold myself real tight and tell me I was on my side. That helped me quite a bit. The more rage I felt when she was yapping at me, the more I had to tell myself I love myself and that I was on my side. I love my feelings of rage.

  176.  #176Tina on March 3, 2010 at 11:26 pm

    Every time I gave her energy – even though it was my feelings of anger- I went right back to loving myself and giving myself big hugs 🙂 It’s so easy for me to get caught up in hating someone, especially her , but it gets easier to love myself at the same time, I feel way better.

  177.  #177Daria on March 4, 2010 at 12:12 am

    Tina I LOVE YOU – you inspire me and free me. somehow you participated and inspired my freeing rant tonite. yes. you did. i love you.

    and i feel like kicking that woman’s ass. yes. i might have kicked her ass for talking shit to you if i was there. then i wouldve had to run from the police.

    i have an easy time standing up for other people almost always

    it was me i had less of an easy time with. bUT now i am healing that. yeah.

  178.  #178gina on March 4, 2010 at 12:44 am

    okay okay…messages instead of finding a man. It’s so much much harder when i feel attracted to a man. I feel triggered and scared of being “played.” it makes me want to shut down and shut off. I feel defensive and judgmental and angry and used. I feel vengeful. I love that I want to protect myself. What’s the message? The message is to trust myself and to keep right on leaning back.

  179.  #179dorothea on March 4, 2010 at 12:59 am

    hey I opened up to all my feelings and impulses I’ve been running away from for almost a year or maybe even longer, because I was worried they’re not “feeling messagey” enough, or because it’s too leaning forward, or because it’s not feminine. But now that I have my old compulsions to act on these impulses in situations when it wasn’t working for me even though I was positive it ought to, I don’t need to run away from all symptoms of an OLD problem. I don’t need to painstakingly craft feeling messages for every situation. Doing that for a good spell reset my vibe and now I am opening up again to the drama queen side of me, to the high maintenance princess side of me, and to the side of me that likes to CALL up men for their company (this is one i JUST re-acquainted myself with tonight and it was brilliant!).

    I achieved balance by setting aside those parts of me for some time so that they would no longer be compulsions that threw relationships and dating out of whack for me.

    But now I find myself agonizing about “having” to conform to this new paradigm. And that is when I realized I am not healed and whole, that I have one last step to go, and this last step is re-acquainting myself with parts of myself – parts that needed to get put on the back burner for a while – in a way that is officially now putting the cherry on top of the new and improved me.


  180.  #180gina on March 4, 2010 at 1:00 am

    I was just reading some comments way up there, and I find this whole labeling thing interesting. I noticed that I look for words to describe an experience with a man. Just finding the words “respect” and “sexy” and “attractive” and “fun” feel good. But finding the word “player” or “games” or “booty call” or “toxic” or “gay” or “liar” all feel so horrible. Like once I find the word, I have a different relationship to my experience. It’s like i want to find the words that most accurately describe my experience. In acting school, we would practice “taking a ride on our bodies” – walking around without judging… definitely a different frame of mind to be in. To just be present and receptive.

  181.  #181dorothea on March 4, 2010 at 1:02 am

    sorry, in the first paragraph i meant to say now that i have these old compulsions IN CHECK, not that I currently have impulses at the compulsive level.

  182.  #182dorothea on March 4, 2010 at 1:13 am

    I feel so good to take the cork off. The high pressure, destructive contents that were trapped behind the cork were largely replaced with something much softer, and the cork has been removed to reveal the new mixture that is smooth and soothing to drink but also fizzy, flavorful and exciting.

    The new and improved Dorthea soda. An informal survey of mating-age men done in a highly unscientific setting of your mama’s house concludes that 100% of healthy men prefer the new and improved Dorothea beverage formula to the original formula that consisted of gun powder and gasoline.

  183.  #183dorothea on March 4, 2010 at 1:16 am

    Tonight I discovered circular dating while ON a date. That’s right I circular dated more than one man at the same time. I opened myself up to other men and connected with them while connecting with my date and giving him the attention he deserved. It felt incredible. I can’t wait to share this experience and my ‘technique’ with you ladies but I should go to bed already, holy cow.

  184.  #184Daria on March 4, 2010 at 2:08 am

    Dorothea soda – Yum

  185.  #185Linda on March 4, 2010 at 5:51 am

    Daria… I am glad that I got what you meant.

    I worked a 12 hour shift yesterday and when I left work I went to see my grandson and straight to bed so… I did not see your comments till this AM.

    Yah for my ephiany via you.

    The label conversation got a lot of mileage. Wow

    Words are a tool of our communication. I resist labels but I dont like them. I certainly dont like being labeled. The thing about good ones we like the bad ones we dont. When I think about it lables can come from impressions or how we feel about an interaction with someone too. In the case of my year long interaction with S. Repetitive patterns of behavior with him created lasting impressions/descriptions and ultimately a way you think of them. Label or not it is what it is.

    If a person lies over and over to you, we are gonna feel or think…I cant trust them.. and liar pops in your head and heart. If a person does not share or give, etc over and over then you are gonna feel that they are selfish. These things come from personal interaction for me. I dont take someones word for it at first, everybody gets clean air and a fresh start with me. In the case of S…. over and over again I offered that until finally a lasting impression sticks. Whether good or bad they just stick with you. Our reputation is what we make it.

    I got an email from S’s mother yesterday. SHe had a a pretty good idea what was going on between us. She said that it is heartbreaking to watch “some” people meaning S never learn from their choices and make ones that will yield desirable results and it hard as a parent to watch it happen over and over, even in the pressence of intervention and wise counsel. I suspected history repeated it self.

    I like something else you said about someone you were talking to online. “I am not going to wait around while you decide if I good enough to talk to
    (in my case with S commit to)… I know that I am.

    One more thing…. I too am a goddess who requires things. Maybe I was too soft and did not require things from S… but I was leaned back and waited for him to row, intiate, lead. I was open, shared my feelings… one night I said I feel l would like to snuggle and be close to you. He said…”I want you to bed, its late”. He would not even look at me….. I should have just left right then. Walked away and not returned.

    I have learned so much. Remembering these things will trigger good productive responses in me so that I can stay on my bridge with forward movement.

    TURTLE GIRL… Your use of labels or associates about your ex is ok. He earned them by his behavior.

    HEARTBEAT…. I read you small post about being angry at someone leaving you alone most of christmas day….. and you saying you wanted to rip their head off and stuff it in the toilet. YOU made me laugh out loud at work here. People turned about and looked at me.

    Today… old thought patterns emerge. I am a problem solver by nature. I am upset with myself for having any energy to give to invest toward wishing things were different and S and I were together. Why in the world do I do that??? I dont like that part of my girl energy. My boy energy wants her to stop… I want to take her and shake her, slap her and say STOP, WILL YOU NEVER LEARN?. How much time are you gonna waste. THen I just hug her and say its okay I am here to protect you.


  186.  #186DocK on March 4, 2010 at 6:30 am

    I am going to label myself “wishy washy” because I am a “on the one hand…” but “on the other hand…” (Like Fiddler on the Roof) because I too often see both sides of things. So…

    On the one hand I believe:
    “When you label me, you negate me” (Soren Kierkegaard)

    On the other hand:
    I believe a label can help me to identify a “tendency” in myself or someone else. After all, Rori has a program called the “TOXIC man” program, right? That IS a label. But the key within it is to ferret out if the guy is TRULY a man that consistently exhibits toxic behavior – e.g. behavior that is vindictive – and he’s proud of it, or a guy that has all the behavior of a narcissist, or is a “player” etc. Therefore, she identifies that a man can be either “clueless” but not really toxic or straight up “toxic” – the latter to be avoided and for us to not only recognize it when we see it but to recognize what is in ourselves that keeps us going towards that type of man.

    So, on the one hand a label does “negate” a person in the sense that it doesn’t allow that person to acquire, perhaps, neuroses boredom and change, on the other hand a label helps me identify that person that IS behaving in the way that label represents – but has not moved towards changing him or herself. That’s the way I straddle the fence, I guess.

  187.  #187sia on March 4, 2010 at 6:44 am

    Re: labelling

    Very interesting thread.
    Linda, you said you are concerned about S. future women, protective of them.

    That brought an image to me of a society, where prospective acquaintances show each other references from previous lovers. This would be very good for these women in this case, namely when you know from S’ mother that he is unlikely to break his pattern.

    But generally: can you imagine that comedy, and that horror?:)

    I myself had and experience, when I heard a label about someone – a bad one – i didn’t particularly like the person who did the labelling, but – the label has such strength – it stuck with me. in my encounters with the labelled person I was always wary, any conversation had parts in it which seemed to confirm the label! and it took me a long time to get rid of the label and see him as a genuine person he really was.

    But that was a case of a wrong/mistaken label. ok how about if the label is correct and lived through like the S labels.

    I used to be very needy – before i started reading things including Rori’s and healing this – so i am sure there is a label sia=needy out there still somewhere, its vibe stopping my current vibe.

    Now Daria says she is helping the men to become better men. Do you think maybe not labelling could help these men, who in the future may find the desire to improve themselves – to grow unsabotaged?

  188.  #188Linda on March 4, 2010 at 8:03 am

    I think not labeling is appropriate.

    Not passing a bias on about someone to another is a wonderful way to live and communicate, give.

    My now son in law was labeled a BAD boy. He had made choices that were bad, he got in trouble with the law, did not care about life. Lots of people in the church we began attending said…on the hush…”keep your daughter away from him”. HMMM
    Of course he and she began dating. I began to learn from him and his parents little by little about his past. He had some really self destructive behavior patterns. but… I gave him clean air.. I didn’t label him like everybody else and as time passed (sometimes very stressfully) he stepped up and erased those labels. Many people would come to me and say… I cant believe the change in him! He was not a straight up Toxic I guess.

    This is why I give chance after chance. I had had great success in the past. But, this time with S there was no break in things. Only for a while and then they snapped back into bad behavior again. Some people have a spirit of long-suffering and are willing to walk thru things with people. I would call myself one of those people. Even with this, I had to cut and WALK.

    The cool thing is when S called me all those names none stuck… He was trying to label but I refused to wear them.

    My experience will cause me to grow.


  189.  #189sia on March 4, 2010 at 8:26 am

    dear linda,
    I wasn’t implying you shouldn’t have walked!

    I also think people in your church when they heard ‘bad boy’ had the right to walk as well. Not everyone has the inner strength to live through stressful times with some other person working on their issues – so nice of you that you did this!

    I really think labelling on this forum is fine – it is just venting between friends and will not fet out there.

    As per you sticking with people and having success with that – I never had to do this in a relationship, but Rori says, if this happens between a man and a woman, the issues for one of the partners might get resolved, but the dynamics of the relationship suffers.
    Like, when a guy is freshly divorced and hung up on his ex, he will heal that feeling with a new woman, ans as soon as this is accomplished, he will move on – from the disease and from the woman who helped cure it.

    i feel so pessimistic right now after having written this..

  190.  #190Goodheart on March 4, 2010 at 8:35 am

    Lucy, reading your comment was like reading something I could’ve just written myself. I just had a phone conversation last night with a new guy. We had emailed a few times, but just short emails. Now, normally I’m fine on the phone (or thought I was, but I guess it was boy-energy). If I got a guy who was good at conversation we would talk for a long time. Since practicing the feeling messages though I feel all out of sorts. I’m supposed to not be thinking, but I’m thinking even more because I’m thinking that I have to use feeling messages & not think!

    I did the same thing you did – became a chatty cathy because it was too exhausting to use “feel” all the time & I just didn’t FEEL like myself (even though I’m trying to change MYSELF).

    We talked for nearly 2 hours & he said he really enjoyed talking to me. That I’d be suprised how difficult it is to talk to some girls. They get too heavy, he said. SO the good news is I didn’t talk about the past or the future – just stuff I like to do & I really did listen to him a LOT. He has several passions. I felt kind of like, whoa, I don’t do very much. I need more passion in my life! Most of my passions don’t require a lot of action, you know? Um, chocolate. Decorating (do that at home). Animals (I volunteer, but it doesn’t require a great deal of time). It seems like so many people have all these great hobbies. I don’t. I just kind of AM. So that’s why I think I slip into the past or future a lot. I am working on it & feel I made progress last night. BUT…

    Even though he said he enjoyed talking to me (I ended the conversation first) he did NOT ask me out! WTF? Just said, ok well I’ll call you or you can call me. When I was strictly in my boy energy (last month & prior) I ALWAYS got asked out after a phone conversation. Help – I’m CONFUSED! It’s like I’m losing men’s interest instead of gaining it, which is what I’ve been trying to do with the help of Rori’s tools. I must be doing it all wrong. I feel they can tell that things aren’t just flowing from me.

    BTW – I went back over my post & edited all the “thinks” into “Feels”! LOL

  191.  #191Turtle Girl on March 4, 2010 at 8:41 am

    Sooooooooooooo—–not labeling is one of Rori’s tools? Hmm……. then how come she posted my original post which had all sorts of labels in it about him being a girl (label) and toxic (label!) and a narcissist-(label). Every single one is a label and Rori uses them all the time. It is not possible to have communication without labels. Fact. Not disputable.

  192.  #192Robin on March 4, 2010 at 8:49 am

    I remember a few posts ago talking about not teeling a guy who comes and goes, and who only contacts us every couple of weeks or longer that it feels good to hear from him, but that we dont take men seriously when they come and go.

    My question is-how do we pull that off, saying that, while still keeping the ballet positions from ‘Commitment’, particularly the 3rd position, where we think of him as high status, despite what he’s doing (or not doing)?

    This guy just brought everyone in the office a chicken lunch but me!

    Why didnt the universe send me chicken too??!! And Im FUCKING hungry!!!

    DAMN IT!!!!!!!!

  193.  #193Terry on March 4, 2010 at 8:53 am

    Heartbeat, what your wrote triggered me deeply: “Which brings up a whole chorus of messages. “Attention-seeker. You’re not worth it. You’re unimportant.” messages I want to stuff right down or even believe.”

    I can soooooo relate to this. I feel teary eyes and lump in my throat. I’ve come a very long way in my helaing process, but I felt what you wrote most of my life. Goes back to my upbringing. My siblings and I were pretty much ignored by our parents. We were never allowed to think for ourselves, have an opinion, or to even express feelings. If we did we were severely punished. It felt horrible on many levels.

    I cried in front of another person for the very first time in my life at age 41, and that was in front of my counselor. It felt terrifying and freeing at the same time. What caused that trigger in me was his quiestion, “Do you feel invisible by everyone?” My answer was, “yes.” The tears started flowing. I never felt important to one single human being.

    Expressing myself in feeling messages is very new to me – only in the last six months or so, but I already feel a change around me. Most people look surprised and even taken aback by the new Terry.

    Heartbeat, I hope you soon feel like the person you know you truly are deep down – just like I know deep down who I really am. Hugs to you!!

  194.  #194Linda on March 4, 2010 at 9:06 am

    Sia…. I did not think that you were meaning I should have not walked. Believe me I took my sweet time making that decision. I was waiting for the peace inside to do so. When it came, even though it was hard and not my nature I did it. It was actually harder than staying.

    I know that may sound weird and foriegn to some but even with my new self esteem and tools on board I just found it hard to walk away. Thankfully with the things I learned here the little head in my voice guided me to do it and not fall in a heap like I have in the past.

    Labeling for the sake of reference here is ok to. We all do it. I just try my best not to right off the bat with anyone until I get to know them.

    I believe in miracles and that people can and do change. Not all do.. but I am a prime example of someone changing.


  195.  #195Linda on March 4, 2010 at 9:13 am

    Sia… also I wanted to say that sticking with someone who is healing and then them jetting afterwards. (In a love relationship feels real.) I am gonna steer clear of things like that from now on.

    If a guy is giving and got issues and needs some help, I might hang but after this thing I just been thru I will even think twice about that.


  196.  #196Daria on March 4, 2010 at 10:29 am

    Uhoh Robin! If that were me I would go buy myself chicken right away!

    My girl hates being left out, especially oout of receving gifts, and she would feel crushed at this point so I would be doing my best to pleasure her and make her feel better and feed her EXTRA YUMMY.

  197.  #197Goodheart on March 4, 2010 at 11:03 am

    Feeling so sad. Why do I torture myself so? I do not have a facebook account. I am probably one of the 12 people on the planet who don’t. Yet, I went on it under my company’s account just to look up old friends. Yeah right. Old boyfriends. Not that there are a ton -just a couple that I was serious with. One dumped me because I wouldn’t sleep with him. I was waiting for marriage at that time. He was a hunk but I resisted. He is still a hunk – 24 years later. Two children. The other guy dumped me because I really, really wanted to get married. He did not want kids. I really, really did. My heart was so broken when we parted & he said he didn’t love me anymore. It literally took me years to recover. Twelve years later he is married with 2 beautiful daughters. They look so happy.

    I feel so sad & scared that life has passed me by. I have no feelings whatsoever anymore for these 2 men. When I looked at their pictures I did not feel loss about them. It was more pity for myself & how it is taking me so long to learn. So long to relax. And I feel anger. Anger at myself & the universe. How could these men be given such wonderful gifts when they didn’t even WANT them? More than anything in my life I wanted a daughter.

    That dream is gone.

    I feel so so sad.

    That is why I will not put myself up on facebook. So all the exes can see that nobody else wanted me either? Ah, there she is. She STILL doesn’t get it.

    No thank you.

  198.  #198Lucy on March 4, 2010 at 11:09 am

    Oh Goodheart! I am crying for you right now. I feel so sad for your sadness.

    The fact that you are here, now, means that you are beginning to “get it.”

    Hugs and love to you. <3

  199.  #199Robin on March 4, 2010 at 11:10 am

    Thank you Daria! Im going to treat myself to an exquisite lunch!

  200.  #200Soignée on March 4, 2010 at 11:14 am

    Dear Linda,

    bravo!! I enjoyed reading your post about your actions!! You are a real proud goddess. I admired you! I always admire people when they do not take shit for themselves. I am sure that the people around you will have more respect for you. Also the man you left. I liked so much that you did not accept these lies, this shit for you. I so much the phrase the husband of my aunt once said to me: “Sometimes you need to refuse THE LESS, in order to get THE MORE”.
    I really really congratulate you on your small success for you. Success for not accepting the shit in your life!!
    A big hug for you!!!!

    I also try to not accept shit also in small everyday situations. in these days, I had to make breakfast, I did not at home, so I went to a caffé. In this very respectable, really exclusive bar – just around the corner from my work place- there are waiters who sometimes when I walked in, wanted the attention and they started to joke, not aggressively, slightly.
    But on that morning, I entered and there were 3 guys, they started to joke more aggressively between each other, they wanted to involve me in their conversation, they wanted to laugh at me (I heard their jokes, with sexual contest). One of them in between also said me: “Do you want to sit down at the table”. I went a little bit further away that this one did not consider me. Another boy said: “Have you already had your piece of cake”. At that point I could not stand it anymore. I left the cake on the plate. I remouved with force the plate. They got afraid. I went to the cashier – he was one of them- and said: The bill for the cake please”. They all were amazed, they were afraid that I wanted to leave.
    And I left that shit place.They all did not expect this from me.
    It was the situation when their bad manners made me feel really nervous and very uncomfortable.
    I do not want to tolerate the shit on every level. Sometimes the men consider me a little bit like a sexual object, maybe because of appearance. I am toll, blond with long hair, with blue eyes, I wear high-heels, I wear lipstick and nice cloths. Once a guy I worked with told me that maybe because of the walk and smile, when I walk the men like they see the sign (light sign like in shops) Sex”. In the men words maybe it can be like a compliment, but I am tired of some kind of comments, and certainly not at breakfast. Because I do not start the stupid conversations. So I did not want to stay in the place where I was taken for a fool.

  201.  #201Goodheart on March 4, 2010 at 11:18 am

    Lucy, thank you. Some days I feel like I’m getting it & others I just feel completely lost & off track, like I will never get there.

    It feels like every once else knows. You know? This is how love is done. Its’s easy. It’s just love.

    For me, it’s a total mystery that I feel I will never grasp. I see love everywhere, but when will it be mine? Not just for myself, but to share?

  202.  #202Daria on March 4, 2010 at 11:22 am

    Goodheart –

    I feel uncomfortable – maybe that’s my cue that I feel insensitive.

    I feel curious if you say your dream of having a daughter is because you physically can’t?

    If so, guywhohadababy’s mom, she was in this situation, and she adopted guywhohadababy and his little sister. I did not know this for years about guywhohadababy until he told me one day…

    I know if that I were not able to have children, though I want to and the thought feels frightening, I would want to adopt a child that needs a mom.

    My Godsister, around the time she had her first baby, there was a woman who asked her and her mom to watch her newborn while she looked for housing for two weeks. She has never come back to get her and my Godsisters mom adopted her. So I know have an Goddaughter and I LOVE HER SO.

    Ah i feel a sigh that feels good.

    My friend from college had to have a hysterectomy at age 26 because she overworked herself. I Felt how awful. But i feel good thinking that she can adopt children if she wants them. She herself was raised by her aunt.

    So there are always daughters when you want one.

    Love, D

  203.  #203Soignée on March 4, 2010 at 11:34 am

    I cried today, for my girlfriend. I told here already about an amazing friend I have.
    She is a girl in their mid-thirties. A human being with the beautiful heart. She had to be strong in her life. she had to start some business and to get successful in order to provide for her whole family- ill father, ill husband. And as soon as this glamorous beautiful woman worked so hard to get strong, her husband took advantage of the money she gained_ he bought the presents for “hoes”(I hope I write this word correctly) and for the money of her wife-of this friend of mine. She was devastated because o this humiliation. After that she had some relationships where she was taken advantage of, so she constantly had to know about the men, and she had a series of liars, because she did trust them, and had no experience.
    And after some disappointing relationships, she got strong, she had to become goddess- I told her about some Rori’s tools. She has more self-esteem.

    And she has a new relationship. She goes out with a man, a very very manly man- a military general who knows the life, who knows the people, who knows about good and bad and who incredibly looks at her like at a goddess, because of her amazing personality. And yesterday, she did not even have any time because she had to go abroad for business, and he called her to come to him just for a minute. She hardly had this minute, but she did it. And she found him with a present to her- a ring with 7 small diamonds.!!! Oh my God, she cried, because he is the first man who is really appreciative of her, who is taking care of her, who sees her like a goddess and he just wanted to make her feel a real woman with his present.

    It is true, 99% of the people around her wanted her only for her success, not for her, only for the exciting life she has (she works so hard!) She is modern, she is beautiful and an amazing girl and will always be a big diamond her. But she had only people in her life who wanted only her success, to touch her success, not her. And this time, this man is admiring her for herself.

    I am crying because I just wanted so much for her to know some great men.
    She did not believe, but this man showed up!!!
    I so much wish for every woman here to hope and believe that there are great men and they will just show up for the ladies and take care of them.

    I just wanted to add something about this woman.
    She is successful, helps the abondaned children (nobody knows about it), she is a beutiful soul. And I am so grateful to God to know this human being because in this interest-driven world, this is such a nice experience to know people with such hearts!!!!!11

  204.  #204Goodheart on March 4, 2010 at 11:36 am

    Daria, I don’t know if I physically can. When I was married it never happened though he had children after we were divorced. I am 45 so I think that ship has sailed.

    As far as adopting. Right now it’s not an option financially for me. I have to work & could not afford day care & actually, I do would want to be a stay-at-home mom, which is impossible if you’re single unless you can work from home, which I can’t.

    I wonder – why do you feel uncomfortable?

  205.  #205heartbeat on March 4, 2010 at 11:56 am

    Terry – your story feels very similar to mine – and I want to give you a great big hug! I still feel strange using feeling messages in live conversations (it’s easier for me in emails etc) and it’s a huge part of my growing to speak from my heart at last, instead of hiding. xx

  206.  #206heartbeat on March 4, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Goodheart – I was 50 last summer and I remember last year (and maybe a bit before that) I felt deeply sad, like grieving, because I’d not had the experience of having more children with a father at home, that I’d never know that experience of being in my very own family. I’ve come through that now – I love my 20-year old gorgeous son – like I grieved and now feel optimistic. Sometimes I have a pang, sometimes I feel jealous but it’s very fleeting. I feel your sadness, I hope you too come out the other side with new and unexpected experiences to look forward to. Lots of love xx

  207.  #207Goodheart on March 4, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Thanks Heartbeat. I just wanted to get the sadness out. It’s hard to express to those who have known the joy what the emptiness feels like to never have felt that preciousness in your womb.

  208.  #208Linda on March 4, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    Dear Soingee’…. I am crying. I read your post and it touched me. Thank you for your praise. Today, I very feel insignificant. I have had thoughts running around in my head all day. I actually asked God why he made me a brunette with brown eyes. If only I was blonde then I would be attractive and desired. (so many times, since I met S, I have wished that I was a blonde and had blue eyes because that is what he is attracted to. I hate that this has crept in to my life. GRRRRRRR After reading what you wrote, I just wept.

    Your story of the men and jokes because of your appearance is not something I would want to have to deal with. I would not want to be desired or joked with or about because of that. I am sorry that you have to endure that. I am glad that you did not put with it.

    I used to love my brunette hair. I have always found dark hair and eyes every alluring and if I could pick who I wanted to look like it would be Catherine Zetta Jones! Your story was like an immediate wake up call. Wishing I looked different is not productive or healthy.

    I just thanked God for making me brunette and in his wisdom I look just like I should. My self talk is now going to be…You are a beautiful 51 year old brunette!!!! I am detoxing I know. I feel a heavyness falling off me. I love to cut up and joke and have fun. I have not done in a long time. I wish for a breath of fresh air. After a period of time with S and his depressive self it just sucks all the life out of me. I feel empty and tired.

    I wept when I left work today as I was walking to the beautiful black beemer waiting for me in the parking lot. I said as I was walking… God you know me, my heart and my needs. You made me just the way you wanted. Then I read your story and I cried again.

    I am sorry that you are looked at as sexual object because of your looks and that men do that to you. I never thought that there could be a down side to being a beautiful blonde.

    I am glad for your story and your strength. I am glad for my strength. I love the line you wrote. Refuse the LESS so that you can have the MORE.

    So affirming and right and the truth!…. I sending you a huge hug. You are a beautiful soul.


  209.  #209Rori Raye on March 4, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    Turtle Girl – not sure why you showed up in moderation here…anyway – I don’t remember that post!!! Are you answering me, or someone else here in this comment? Everything is possible, and I’m all about what works. If labeling is getting in your way and closing down your mind and your vision – then stop doing it. If it helps you organize your thoughts and you are not knee-jerk reacting…then do what feels right…I’m about stopping what isn’t working – and most of the time – labeling gets in ALL of our ways. The thing is to take away whatever you’re using as a crutch…so look for that – instead of making anything right or wrong…and again that, too is flexible. We’re looking for healing here, not for rules…even though it’s my job to be definitive and rule-making…so thank you for bringing this up…clearly a lot more to say about all this…Love, Rori

  210.  #210Soignée on March 4, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    Dear Linda,

    I am crying. Thank you for your post!!! I send you the huge hug. I always wanted to be brunette with dark eyes. Don’t you believe me? My favourite actresses are Demi Moore and Catherine Zeta Jones, really!!!
    I have a brunette friend and she is amazing!! The Miss Universe, normally the winners are brunettes!!!
    Really!!! My friend I wrote you in the post (businesswoman), she is blond, blond but she was only taken advantage of. So the looks, blond or brunette, does not really matter in relationships.
    I have a brunette friend, she sometimes makes some red reflexes, sometimes “prune” reflex like Hollywood stars do. My favourite aunt is brunette and she has sometimes the “mahagony” hair, sometimes she plays with the reflexes. I love the brunette hair. It can be really spicy and juicy effect on brunette hair.

    Yes, it is true. When I remember, only my man and some men who- when I was a Rule girl (rules by hellen Fein ) and they fell in love with me. But normally the men I had they looked at me as a sexual object. Yes, they did take care of other women, blond or brunette, I do not really know. But I was really seen like a sexy thing. Once I lost a job because my chef he wanted me. He fired me as I refused. he fired me so abruptly , I brought him so much money!! (I worked at a export office and travelled a lot for the company at that period and sold a lot abroad.) He fired me and I had no job for 4 months, crying in bed for this injustice. I had my family abroad, I was alone in the foreign country. I had interviews, but no success. So I know what is it to have even nothing in the fridge, it was the hardest time for me. It was my director who made my life for 4 months a hell, for my looks, because I did not accept his proposals. I could not go to start a legal issue, because I could not do it. I asked him before this happened, to help a guy from a foreign country, he helped him and If I had started a legal issue against him, he would harm the guy I asked help for. So I had to suffer. I was at the bottom of depression, I did not want to tell about this issue a lot, because I did not want to harm people around me.
    But God is great. I stood up and I am still living.

    I found the love who broke my heart – I wrote about it – why I found Rori. So he played with me for so much time, months and months together, such an intense feeling, and as soon as his ex woman came back with the child (they were separated before he met me!!!), so he forgot about me.

    Yes, this is the issue of looks. It can help , but not always, please believe me.

    So I started to protect myself, to defend myself.

    And I am so happy that the jerks I found, maybe it is a label, but for me these people were jerks, I am happy that they did not change my trust in people, my faith in the better future. And I remain kind to people, I can love.

    So dear Linda, please remember that the pride and dignity are the sexiest qualities, not the sexy looks.

    Please treat yourself with white gloves like a treasure, like a piece of jewellery, like the great piece of art.

    And please write your days filling with beautiful things and beautiful people and beautiful feelings.

    The jerks do not deserve so much attention and so much your priceless time.

    You know, I had a hard conversation today with some kind of jerk, but I knew he wanted to disturb my day. I found a good tool – a good exercise: I thought the whole time he talked about the dish my friend talked me about. I imagined the cauliflowers, pasta, the dessert, fruits, everything I had to buy to prepare a great dinner.

    And do you know that the people who want to put you down with intention, to make you feel bad, they commit an ethic crime! Iread this in some article and I agree.

    So Linda, dear Goddess, you are a great woman, be kind with yourself, try to remove your attention of bad people, of every negativity and try to be always happy. Make for yourself a great box of happiness, that no jerk can disturb your positivity.

    I am with you and will support you!!!!!1 You are great and you will attract beautiful people!!!

  211.  #211Jennifer on March 4, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    Thanks for your perspective. It really helps me feel more comfortable in my own skin.
    I have posted previously about the “china doll army” I used to think that blonde women got all the attention and love and showering affection from men.
    It did not occur to me that this attention could be unwanted or uncomfortable or so nasty.
    I feel that it is terrible for men to to this to you.
    Once when I was in a club with my sister, I went to the bar to get a drink and when I turned around there were two men directly behind me, I nearly ran into them. I said I was sorry and one of them looked me directly in my eyes and said “ewww” with a sneer on his face.
    I was soooo embarrased. Up to that point I felt I was looking ok and I was having fun. This man ruined the rest of the night for me.
    I assumed at the time that he said that because I wasn’t a blonde blue eyed woman.
    Now maybe I think he was a pig.
    Yes, that’s a a label. I’m ok with that.
    PIG, PIG, PIG.
    Ironically, when I told my sister about it later she said I should have come and told her she would have yelled at the men and embarassed them. She is a member of the china doll army. She is tiny and blonde.
    Thanks for the insight.

  212.  #212Linda on March 4, 2010 at 5:55 pm

    Hugs Soingee

    You know what goddesses.. .. I was afraid of coming home tonight being alone. I did not want to do it.

    But… I am actually enjoying my evening. To my surprise I feel calm and happy. I am feeling happy to not wish S would be more attentive or wonder what he is doing, or wish he wanted to be with me. Or even hoping that today would be the day that he would be in a good mood and fun to be with. I am not preoccupied with any of that. It is like a monkey is off my back. A BIG UGGLY Monkey is off my back.

    I feel cozy and peaceful. Relief and calm are my companions. When I had a old thought patter come back.. I said to myself…”remember what he wrote, remember that remember he does not love you, remember that he had plenty of opporunity to claim you, appreciate you, love and adore you and step up. Remember that he does not give you what you need and want and remember how you feel right now and how wonderful that feels in comparison to before. Remember that you hated how he layed on the sofa and ignored you.

    Keeping my thoughts in reality is grand therapy for me tonight. Snuggling with my dog, enjoying my place my space, feels magnificent tonight. This is part of the MORE I get when I say NO to the LESS.



  213.  #213Linda on March 4, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    I dont want to be anybodys MUSE….

    I dont want to be kept around because I make them feel better.

    I dont want to be asked to help do it, only to have it held against me.

    I want to be loved, adored, appreciated. I want my brunette curly hair to be admired and my giggle and light heart and intelligence to be enjoyed. I want my body to be accepted and honored just as it is. I want to be told I am yummy!

    I want a real man, a provider, playmate, companion, partner in the routine and adventure. I want to be unconditionally supported and encouraged and….. I want to be touched… I want my LOVER.

    Nite goddesses, I wanna sleep like a baby tonight.


    I want my MORE… no more LESS. I wish us all our MORE.

  214.  #214heartbeat on March 5, 2010 at 12:40 am

    I’m right with you, Linda!! xx

    I like that – refuse the less to get the more – thank you Soignee xx

    Jennifer – you are right – he was a PIG xx

  215.  #215Daria on March 5, 2010 at 1:29 am

    Jennifer — I was suddenly hit by a memory of when men – or maybe it was boys then – did that to me! wow… I felt horrible… but I was just as pretty then!

  216.  #216Daria on March 5, 2010 at 1:34 am

    Jennifer – another thing i just remembered:

    awhile ago a man called me Slut. and i felt upset and posted about it.

    And Rori asked me “am I calling myself those names?” (I was just starting circular dating) and yes, I was… a part of me was

    So are you saying “ugh” to yourself? because that will show up in the outside world…

  217.  #217DocK on March 5, 2010 at 7:59 am

    Jennifer – “china doll army” – I think that’s funny. I guess I qualify for that although I remember some people had another title for me “Captain of the Swedish Bikini Team” (although I’m not swedish – I guess my shiny blonde hair and tan, at the time, made it fit).

    My sister has brown hair and brown eyes that look like God sprinkled gold in them. I always felt she is the beautiful one. She always felt I am the glamorous one.

    Yes, I have easily attracted attention. I feel weird writing that. But guess what? I have had my heart broken too – many times.

    I have sat in a bar and watched a former BF walk in with a woman much younger than me with long brown hair and huge, Pamela Anderson implants (I don’t have anything against cosmetic surgery but you get my point) – even though we were “broken up” the reasons he gave (“I just can’t have a relationship of any kind right now”) – well, it was obvious it was BS and I felt like nothing.

    There I was, the very woman that has people stop me in the middle of the street to ask me “what do you do, eat, how do you train to look like that” standing in front of the mirror and all I could see was ugly and what wasn’t enough for that one guy. All the advice that I give to women to ‘always look in the mirror and focus on what you love and how beautiful you are’ and I couldn’t follow my own advice.

    It hurt like hell and it took a lot of work to overcome that and it can still rear it’s ugly head when I’m feeling down on myself as I remember how I felt in that moment of seeing them.

    I had to remind myself (and still do) of my favorite quote “It is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye” (from the Little Prince). A funny quote to be a body builder’s favorite since all we are judged on is our appearance – maybe exactly why it is my favorite and not so strange.

    Beautiful women often attract shallow men that are very good at gushing over them and complimenting and putting on a good show to win them over. While being physically attracted to someone is the beginning point and we all do it to some degree, hopefully, what becomes important to someone is what is inside that person and a much deeper level of attraction – but with guys that are only focused on looks and impressing their buddies and stroking their egos with a beautiful woman on their arm – that woman becomes interchangeable with the next woman that is either more beautiful or even, just beautiful in a different way. That is way, I think, many people are so surprised that beautiful women can be very insecure.

    I remember being in a body building show and I had noone there with me (it was in another state) and it can be very cuthroat and I could here the other female competitor’s making comments and their BFs telling them not to worry about me. When I got on stage I felt so alone and I looked deflated – the worst thing for a bodybuilder. That was at the morning pre-judging. By the night show I had done the internal work and got myself grounded and my confidence and my inner light was shining. Same body, same everything but the inside was different. When I got off the stage (I still didn’t place), to walk to the audience – I don’t know where they came from but I had a crowd around me telling me that I was their favorite and the judges were stupid and how they loved that I was muscular but curvy and looked like a woman and it was amazing.

    I have been through the ups and downs of being judged by my appearance. What is most important about me is who I am on the inside – the inner light that we all have and staying true to ourselves. That is what is truly beautiful.

  218.  #218Simply Shannon on March 5, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    All this talk about body image fits in perfectly with something I’m reading with my church group right now (The Purpose Driven Life). It states something along the lines that we are all perfectly designed by God, from our personality to our hair color, eyes, and to our location in the world. Everything is perfectly suited for each of us in order to accomplish our purpose in life. God picked me (you) to be who we are for a reason. We each have our own spiritual gifts and each of us is IMPORTANT and a beautiful part of the “body” aka the world/the church.

    I HATED my butt and my hips for a long time but my body shape allowed me to carry twins full term. I still don’t really love my hips and my butt but I don’t hate them anymore. God gave me this body so that I could have full term babies. Without this booty, who knows what might have been, ya know?

    I also think it’s interesting reading these comments because I have been a member of the china doll army and am now a redhead who is slowing transitioning to a brunette until I get my hair done again. As a member of both sides of this army, I can tell you it doesn’t matter. The guys who thought I was hot before still think I’m hot. 🙂 I know realize that being a blonde or a brunette had nothing to do with it.

  219.  #219Turtle Girl on March 5, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    I think that all the body image stuff is in many ways propagated by the media. Sex is everywhere and touted as so important. And in order to look sexy we must look a certain way. Big boobs, certain types of hair color, specific weight, etc etc ad infinitum.

    It is very damaging to women and can really skew a man’s viewpoint of what he wants and needs as well.
    Real people are usually something very different. The commercials are there to simply sell product. Sex is always all about the money – the big bucks baby.

    Our spirits or who we are deep inside is completely irrelevant to this and so we suffer if we buy into all the hype and drink the koolaid. And no matter what we can never measure up to a tv ad or a picture that is photoshopped in a magazine.

    Remember back in the Renaissance when women with very full hips and breasts were painted by the great artist’s and so lovely? The skinny china dolls were not seen as attractive. Then in the sixties it was twiggy? And then Barbie came along. What will be next? It is all a fad and what sells. Real lovely goddesses come in all shapes colors and sizes. Love yourself, each and every one. xxxooo

  220.  #220Jennifer on March 5, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    I’ve been thinking about getting a goddess tatoo. the primitive godess that has very round hips and large breasts.
    She and I look a little alike. I was thinking of having her done in red graduating to orange situated on the base of my spine just above my buttocks.
    The colours are hot and powerful and the colour of the chakras in those areas…a tribute to the powerful engery of a woman.

  221.  #221Jennifer on March 5, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    I was telling my sister about the china doll army.
    She reminded me of our mother’s good friend Cathy.
    Cathy’s husband loves her to the ends of the earth. He cooks and cleans and shops and does every thing she needs.
    Cathy weighs over 300 lbs.
    Cathy is slightly cross eyed.

    So I have to think about that

  222.  #222SensualLoveGoddess on March 5, 2010 at 6:39 pm

    Good day to all the Goddesses out there, by the way each one of you is one! Lets celebrate that gift we are blessed with. I love the wisdom you share ORNA, a lady of wisdom and love indeed. It sounds like you have travelled a hard road in the past and come out shining brightly at the end…..Well I wish I could say I have it all worked out and my ability to relate with men is easy , graceful, open, authentic and unconditional in love….lets just say I am striving and working my way up the ladder….This circular dating stuff is totally new to me and only just about to venture out and give it a go….but afraid that I am going to fall for the first guy I feel a connection and attraction with….It seems difficult to circular date when I may technically only be dating one man…with the intention of dating others at some stage. What happens if I really really like someone….I know I tend to think far too much about them when I do feel drawn to them…I am putting out there to the Universe to be brave enough to date more than one man….atleast 3….I am use to spending alot of time on my own so I have some big adjustments to make and really not sure if I am going to manage it….I am willing to give it a go though if it presents itself…I trust my intuition in terms of saying yes to even dating a man or say no to him…which leaves me short but I would rather trust my intuition and follow that than have to deal with someone unpleasant….How do I stay strong and courageous enough to say no girlfriend speech if I really like someone….oohhh I have butterflies just thinking about it….I know why because in the past I can easily be seduced when I am hungry for love and affection…..I have needs and often have long periods (for me) without a man so when I am with one I like my sensual Goddess just wants to touched loved and appreciated….What are your thoughts ?

  223.  #223MaryB on March 6, 2010 at 7:53 am

    Hi All

    I was in a 2 year relationship that ended because my ex b/f cheated, lied to me continously. Then I have been circular dating for months. Most seem to be all frogs and not worthy of me. They too tell me lies and drop off the face of the earth. I have an issue trusting and believing the next man. One I have been dating who I like and who likes me took his profile off and told me he: “You have everything a guy wants in a woman, I have no need to keep looking, I have found what I want in my life, you are a keeper, I will not let go of you and I have plans for the future”.

    My problem is trust. Ihave been so burnt in the past with my ex b/f and others I dated who were not honest. This guy normally calls me after work everyday and last nite (Friday) i didnt hear from him; He and I were suppose to go out tonight. I got a text from him saying that he was sorry for the lack of communication and that he split a tooth yesterday & has to get root canal today. He doesnt think he will be in any shape to go out tonite and that he is hurting really bad. He said he will call after he gets back from the dentist.

    My first reaction……he’s lying. He has not given me any reason not to believe him, but i have been lied to so much in the past from others that I have a problem believing. Help!

  224.  #224tinque on March 6, 2010 at 8:15 am

    MaryB – This will take time. When we have had trust broken in the past, it’s not an easy one to regain. Be patient with yourself. So you have doubts. Hold your doubts gently. When you discover that in this case your doubts were unfounded, softly let them go.
    Allow this man to show you he IS trustworthy, incident by incident.
    Eventually you will find yourself able to relax more. The “bad” thoughts will fade. It’s not to say that every now and then a suspicious thought won’t arise, but you will be able to quickly catch yourself, tell yourself that this man has not betrayed your trust before, so it’s unlikely he is now.

  225.  #225Linda on March 6, 2010 at 10:08 am

    Hi, I recently had some dialogue with Soingee about blonde, brunette thing. It came at just the right time because.

    I had left work fussing within, struggling with wishing I was blonde and blue eyed because S is attracted to that look. I just cant get out of my head that (the LIE) that if I looked like that then we be together. It is hard to have a man look at you and say, you are everything I need and more, but you are not what I want. Then say….I just need to stop argueing with God about it and accept you.

    OM gosh…. what a two edged sword and cutting remark. On the one hand you know that you are awesome and beautiful a goddess standing right before him… but that you are still not “enough” . out. Then on the other side, you put your faith in God, and ask him to move and faith and all that other stuff that my life is built upon. Hoping that if I just hung in there and perservered that it would all be handled. WHAT a terrible monkey on my back that was.

    I was brought full circle by Soingee’s post. I had no idea of the stuff she puts up with because of her looks. I dont want to deal with that either.

    I feel it is so true that our media and society dictate and influence men and women and we buy into the lie they feed us. My gosh is we lived in another culture it would be something else we would need to buy or be or look like to be considered beautiful.

    SS you are right. I have done the study you are going thru. IT is a good one. Self acceptance and gratitude for how we are knit together is freeing and I have gotten so far away from that in my spirit and mind.

    I was reading an old post in the section of “He’s contacting other women online”. There was a couple of sentences of GOLD there in a post at the end. The goddess that posted was talking about men and their quality. She said something like this…

    A mature man falls in love with the heart not the face or the body. How beautifully put !

    and then said….

    If I have to force a man to be faithful to me in any way then he is simply not worth my time or investment at all!

    I have been grazing out here for days. Reading old posts and finding new GOLDEN nuggets.

    I have been riffing, writing, declairing, re adjusting after closing the chapter of my life that involved and entangled me with S. I am having my moments of glee and grief.

    I wrote this the other day….

    I am a goddess who requires things. If you make promises to me. You have to keep them. It matters! I am not going to love for “loves sake” anymore because it kills the “fire of love”. My heart wants to be wanted, cherished and cared for. I want to be honored and be accepted, body, soul, and spirit. I AM WORTH THE INVESTMENT OF YOUR HEART.. a man who really cares, calls, gives and invests himself and that matters to me too! So…. if I have to force you to be faithful to me in anyway… I walk away.


    There is more, I just feel tired right now. I do know one thing… I would rather be alone then be with a man that causes me to feel like I did around S. I feel sad, but glad too.


  226.  #226tinque on March 6, 2010 at 11:32 am

    Linda – “you are still not “enough”
    Not only are you enough, you are more than plenty just as your are, perfect within your imperfections which are also perfect because they are part of you.
    If nothing else, know this, it’s NOT YOU who is not enough.
    The outer covering changes anyway, and what are you left with? The most important parts of you, your heart, your spirit, your soul.
    To all the blondes out there please do not take offense, for I love all the delicious flavors of beings available, but I have never ever wanted to be a blonde. I have auburn hair, and I love it. Blonde would just look bad on me with my skin coloring.
    My man loves it because it’s mine. It’s now his favorite hair color because it’s mine.
    He may adore my body and enjoy feasting his eyes on my naked parts, but what he really loves is who I am as me, my silliness, my sweetness, and so much moremore, but, and this is a biggie, one of the biggest turn ons is my willingness to be open and vulnerable with him, in all ways, with my heart, with my spirit, emotionally and sexually.
    This all took time. It doesn’t happen right away. It grows as the trust builds between two people.
    That S was unwilling to see past what could have been to him a gorgeous exterior if he had only opened his eyes, to the even more beautiful interior doesn’t say a whole lot about him.
    It’s easy for me to say you are better off, but you are hurting and understandably so. It will pass, and I know you know that.

  227.  #227Soignée on March 6, 2010 at 11:35 am

    Dear Linda,

    I am happy to be at home right now and to be able to answer you. I worked today very erly and I am tired to go out. So I am having my tea and am really pleased to hear from you.

    As about the looks and your ex man. Do you know that John Lennon liked the blondes but went crazy about his brunette wife? Were Princess Diana and Marylin Monroe very happy also for their looks?

    Certainly, the woman can also change her hair colour from brunette to blond, from blond to red, from grey to violet, pink etc. It is an hour of work.
    The brunette can have golden reflexes or blond mèches, prune or mahagony reflex at the hair ends, the woman can change every time she wants to. But it has to be HER decision, not a decision of a man. Because a today’s boyfriend likes the blond hair, the next one likes brunette, the third one likes the red hair etc. And the core problem is what the WOMAN likes in her.
    And you know what, he-the right man- will love you and be attracted to you mostly if he feels your “joie-de-vivre”, your “devil-may-care”attitude. I have plenty of examples of real women happy in their relationships, and the unique thing which make them different from the other women: they have self-confidence, they require the MORE.

    The magic is love for ourself. This is the best medicine, the very best tool, to have LOVE for ourselves and not to give us away for the people who did not confirm their genuine interest in your good. The people we can permit to enter in our life have to confirm their genuine love for us, their genuine respect. When some man does not like the look of some woman, it is up to him. For example, my ex husband made my self-esteem so low, I could nearly recover. But one lover – I will always be thankful for him- he, a good and super sexy super handsome man and a really good lover, he gave me this self-confidence (I thank God to have this person in my life, he made me feel a special creature. His compliments were something like that, with admiration”Who designed you?” I saw him 2 months ago and he told me”You are an icon for me in my mind. ” I was the happiest person on earth. He gave me confidence, but for example, my ex husband used to put me down where other men around wristled me, and every time I went out, I was contacted and stopped, the guys wanted to know me. But…. I FELT NOT NICE, it was MY feeling not to be enough and this was the thought my ex husband introduced in my mind. I had to recover for a long period.

    Dear Linda, certainly, if you want to change something in you, it has to be dealt with YOU, not because of a man. If you want to be today pink, be pink, if you want to be blond, be blond, or you can stay as always brunette, or give some sun-kissed-reflexes to your look. But YOU have to feel yourself good, not because of S or R or devil tells you!!

    The main tool in the whole love life is to learn how to be happy with ourselves, with or without a man. And the Rori’s beautiful description of imagining us and a fountain of love for us. We have to learn how to nurture ourselves with the love, overflowing fountain of love for us. And the men will come and will give more love for us. But it does not matter anymore, it gives only some more pleasure, but we feel love for us!! This is the most important tool to learn through our life.
    And the most important tool with men is to pass to their heart, to learn how to be weak with them, to be a woman. So he will have feelings of protection, of power toward his lady, to touch his HEART. Because the looks can touch his low body part (I do not know the word in English). But if we can touch his heart, and we naturally can when we remain women, goddess, weak (The woman needs a man to be weak, because she can be strong without him!!). The man has to have a sense of tenderness towards us, the feeling of a protection of his lady.
    To touch his heart. And Rori teaches this. To share feeling in messages, to be a leaning back girl. (I gave 3 book titles to Wonder Woman, maybe it can be interesting for you, you will see soo many new insights!!) ,
    I know that when the men in my life felt me as a woman, when I was very feminine (not looks, but the vibe), they started to protect myself.

    I remember, my ex, he is a macho, a strong man, and in me he found tenderness, I told him about my feelings, I asked him to accompany me because I was afraid of dark streets etc. And he did it and felt strong, and he felt a man. This is the tool, to make a man feel like a man, strong, provider, a real hero. I saw in that man a hero, and he got one. The people around him asked him”Why did you change so much? You are better, you are more sensitive, you are kinder” And he always told about me, because I told him about how to be kind with the world. He got a softer personality. It was in some passages such an amazing story full of feelings, emotions.
    Dear Linda, I believe we can learn how to create emotions, create the mystery of emotions.

    I remember him to bring me to the sea side, this was one of the first our appointments. It was dark, it was summer, below us there was the belighted sea coast. He had an amazing music in his radio. I stayed very quiet. He stayed quiet and was smoking watching me. This was no word told, but this was an emotion, a romantic of a belighted sea coast, his dark eyes in the dark, his smoking, and his admiring me. I felt as the time stopped, it was sooooooo beuatiful!So many senses were touched. And no word. I believe that sometimes the words disturb the feelings.

    I really believe that our chatter sometimes disturb the feelings. The words can destroy the emotions.

    Dear Linda, be kind with yourself. You will forget about this man very soon. You will find a better one, 100 times a better man. Please learn to touch his heart, the looks do not matter. He has to FEEL something around you. And YOU can create it, but by being yourself, your natural Linda.

    A great hug, dear Goddess, I am with you.

  228.  #228Lucy on March 6, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Wow, Soignee. That was beautiful!!!

    I love the imagery of your seaside story. Mmmm.

    I feel curious — “the looks can touch his low body part (I do not know the word in English)” — what is the word in YOUR language? (I am not crazy about the English words!) 🙂

  229.  #229Soignée on March 6, 2010 at 11:52 am

    I am working on how to be mysterious.
    It can seem manupulative. But I want to feel the vibe of being mysterious, I am sure I will like this vibe. When I introduce some changes in my behaviour what I read, what I can do, maybe for the first time, I would not feel very natural at a new tool, for example leaning back, stop overfunctioning. Yes, at the beginning it can seem not natural, but I know I will feel more comfortable with it. It is a kind of play. I see it like learning a foreign language, first I do not feel comfortable with the new words, sentences, phrases, but as much as I practice it, it is getting better and better and I feel comfortable withit.

    I am learning a language of men.
    I am learning a language of goddess. I will feel the goddess vibe, I will change, I will be my softest, my sweetest, my most feminine me, I will be an absolute woman.

  230.  #230Soignée on March 6, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    :):) Dear Lucy,
    I can seem a little bit silly, but I feel ashamed of writing some words. Really, I can never grow.

    I am naturally shy, yes, as I remember me a girl, I was very sophisticated and shy. I do not why.
    I AM shy when I feel emotions, but when I stay quiet. I feel really much. Also shyness. But as soon as I start talking, my shyness disappear, my shyness from the stomach moves to the head, so the words they help me to cover my feelings. Yes, I can use the words like an aid for expressing the feelings or I can use them as an aid for expressing the thoughts. So I can decide what part , heart or head, I can use with the words.

    But I want to tell you about some emotions I had with the man.

    I was already like hypnotized after staying with him, because it was HIM who opened his heart to me, he expressed me HIS feelings towards life.

    To UNDERSTAND the feelings , you will automatically FEEL them!!!!!!!!!!
    The feelings, when you express them, will be understood by an other person only by FEELING THEM. So it the Rori’s tool: expressing the feelings to our man he will feel them.

    I remember one guy fall in love with me because I told him about my feelings towards my ex. This guy told me, I moved something inside him as I was expressing my feelings towards my ex. He was a friend for me and once for confidence, I started to tell him my story of this passion I had. He was listening attentively and this story of my feelings moved him. And he felt something towards me.
    He after that fall in love with me. The story was not possible. But he also now looked for me.

    This is what Rori says, feeling messages.

    Do you know that only two states can give us euphory similar to the state when we have alcohol in our blood? These 2 states are: when we feel love or excitement when we create something!!
    This is a scientific information I read in this period.
    So when we love or have an excitement towards what we create, we have this dosis of alcohol, euphory in our blood, like as if we had some alcohol in blood.
    So that’s why people start drinking or drugs, because of lack of feelings in euphory when in love or excited!!

  231.  #231Soignée on March 6, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    I have to fight with my manager. He showed interest for me, but I did not consider him. He is jeallous that I am quite popular with the group of our staff at our work. He is jeallous that I have the best relationship with a guy who is a gay and who is very important in our group. He sees my indifference and so he started to cause me some icky problems: he always looks for my every single small mistake and he stresses it and has to say something negative. I cared before. But now I do not care. I do not want to have to deal with such a mediocre person who wants to harm me at every level. He wants to harm people when he sees them week, in this point he enjoys the people seeing them week. I feel icky towards this person. I do not consider him, he does not deserve anything from me. He tries to make some stupid , in his eye “nice compliments”, but I avoid the contact with him.

  232.  #232Linda on March 6, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    Thanks Tinque

    I know that it is not about me. My head knows it I am waiting on my heart to catch up. I am just waiting for it all to kick into gear and send me into forward movement again.

    I love my brunette hair and dark eyes. Even though I have highlights of carmel and blonde in my hair now and have for 2 years now, I would look weird as a total blonde.

    I am honestly concerned about myself. I am worried. Why did I let him back into my life.? Why did I do this again? Even though he seemed so different at first…S turned back to the same old things.They were morfed and a bit improved but the root of all of it is the same. Maybe I let him in so that I could have this experience and put it all away for good. Maybe this was not a set back but a leap forward. I do want to believe that.

    I sure did have my share of… I dont like how this feels with him. I have never concentrated or focused on that before in a relationship. I used to take things that I did not like and attribute it to the fact that something was wrong in me. But this time with things that I have learned here, my feelings were given a priority and spoke clearly to me. I have grown. Now I can tell you exactly why it doesnt work instead of it being a big blury grey ball of matter.

    Honestly if he had been loyal not lied and betrayed me. If that was not in the scenrio and everything else was the same, I would most likely choosen to move on eventually. I do not think I would marry him. He has other issues an behaviors that I think I would have not been able to tolerate over the long haul. I would have become very bored and restless.

    Learning these things and stepping back and looking at it objectively helps.

    I do have a nagging curiosity. Why would a man come back to a woman over and over again that he is not physically attracted to? (as he said). That baffles me. I certainly would not pursue something with someone that I felt that way about. Makes no sense to me. There would be times I would catch him just looking at me, he was admiring me, it was written all over his him. Oh well, some things we just never get to understand.

    I am gonna have to take a big deep breath and long cool drink of water and keep on walkin’


  233.  #233Soignée on March 6, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    Dear Lucy,

    I remember as I was in love with the ex.
    I remember going once to a discoteque. My girlfriend was with me, looking around for some new guys. But I had an image of him. I felt my heart had strong beats because looking around I expected he was there. I felt him inside, like he was with me, his image inside my heart and my head. I was looking around but I felt his presense. It was a strange feeling, I moved my head and I was expecting him entering the door, my heart had faster beats. I felt a feeling of shyness, my cheeks got red, I was expecting him. But he was not there, but for me it was a feeling like he was there. I felt hypnotized.

    I remember him telling me stories from his life after the dinner with the friends. We were in the car and he was telling and telling about his emotions and feelings, I listened to him. I had the feeling of sweet tenderness to him, I start to feel tenderness, I felt moved, I had tears, I asked him”Why on earth such a beauty had to suffer so much?” I felt compassion, I felt moved about this stories that he came from a poor family with a lot of children and the parents put him into school for abondoned children etc. etc. etc.. I started to have the warm feeling of tenderness for this person. He asked me: “Why are you crying? I do not want you to cry:”Afterwards, the whole night talking, I was tired. He drove me around, I put my head on his shoulder and fell asleep. He drove me for a long time home, but he did not want to wake me, so he drove just around for hours, because he did not want to wake me.
    As I saw him, I felt this strange feeling in the heart, like it was a pick and it felt warm inside. I felt always glad to see him, to feel him.

  234.  #234Linda on March 6, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    Soignee’… you are a beautiful woman.

    I did some of the very things you said. I was vernable, share my feelings. I felt as if I was glowing from the inside out. In many ways I touched this man. Each time we interacted, he was drawn in more and more. I believe that is why he kept coming back. He told me I am the only woman that makes him feel good. That he could connect with and have such wonderful conversations with on all the levels that were so great between us. But it was like I would only be let in so far. THe deepest part of his heart was locked and he would not let me touch him there. He would talk about it he knew it was key… but he would really close and then he would just shut down….and do what he had in the past…seek another woman becasue he just could not give it all. (Rolling my eyes)

    THere were so many times I was just being me, goofing off, being silly, sharing, caring, working. I could be me around him, except for the one area that he close up. Intimacy. THe last time we made love it was beautiful. I wept a bit and he asked why as he kissed my tears. I said I dont know but it is a good cry. He just held me tight. On rare moments like that we were complete together.

    Sometimes I am not sure if I really know how to touch a man and then at other times it just flows like honey. I do believe that I could have been more vunerable, but under all of that I knew that he was speaking to others and hiding it (as he thought) and it messed everything up. You cant be you when that is going on.


  235.  #235Earthdancer on March 6, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    GOODHEART: wow, i feel like you spoke my mind exactly – WHEN WILL IT BE OUR TURN????…I am closer to 50 than to 40 and I think WHY DO I HAVE TO GET IT EXACTLY RIGHT BEFORE I WILL BE ALLOWED TO HAVE LOVE when I see all kinds of people paired up and HAPPY – even people in prison, addicts, etc. have relationships….WHY AM I DIFFERENT?????????

    I am feeling punished, I am feeling angry gggggrrrrrr I am feeling stomping my feet and screaming to the Universe what did I do to deserve this???? But the Universe doesn’t answer, either…I feel ANGRY!!!

    JENNIFER: I feel the Goddess tatoo could be very empowering for you…go for it!!

  236.  #236Linda on March 6, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    I can feel my feelings… sharing them with the man in my life… yes I can do that too. I sure did with S, but he did not let himself feel or be touched by them. I suppose that was the missing part.

    It is the same with all his women…. the same thing told to each. I just dont feel it all with you… bla bla blah….

    Guess what… I dont feel it all with you either!…. So it stopped being about me being something for him and me being something for ME. That is how I got the strength to get the car back. THat was the biggest baby step I ever took. I just drive the car with a peace inside now. I dont feel the least bit bad that he is without.

    If he ever contacts me again… he will find quite a different woman. I have never broken it off with him it was the other way around before. Not that that matters but I found my self respect and ability to enforce what is important to me. Baby steps, baby steps.

    Oh my gosh I am rambeling!!! sheesh


  237.  #237Soignée on March 6, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    Dear Linda,
    thank you so much for you reply. I will try to give some insights that maybe will be in some way helpful for you.This is my own experience, but maybe it can be of help.
    I believe that talking with a man too much, it can move the relationship into friendship. yes, you can open your soul by talking , but it has to be short.
    Because like Rori says, they need not only a woman for her, but also companionship.
    Maybe you have to be the first to put an end to the conversations. Let the men guess. I am working right now on how to be mysterious. The men want to guess something. We are learned to explain what we do, why etc.
    My ideal situation (picture of me)will be:
    I will be a happy, smiling goddess.
    I will do things and I won’t explain him as much why I do this. He has to guess what I am doing, why I am not very interested in him. I will be busy with my beautiful life and have my goddess vibe.
    Once I will be soft, another time vulnerable, the third time a little bit bitchy. It depends on how I feel.
    I will ask him for protection and help and advise. I want HIS advise, I won’t give him my advice.
    I will be absolutely leaning back. I will always end the short dinners, conversations, I won’t be too available. I won’t to give him some insights, I will only listen on the level 2.
    I will be concentrated on myself and I will have an interest toward this human being wihout judging.

    As for your opening up, it can be open, but not an open book.

    And all this is possible when you love yourself and genuinely adore you. So will do other people.
    And the books I suggested you will give you some insights, you will have your own opinion, you will see yourself, what you made correct and wrong.

    A huge hug and 1000 kisses for you.

    I will be with you!!!And I will celebrate the happy Linda is right now being born. Like The Birth of Venus by Botticelli.
    I will celebrate the Birth of the Goddess Linda!!!
    I am sure you will be the very best version of yourself.

  238.  #238Daria on March 6, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Soignee – I feel moved forward to say I understand what you are saying about here.

    It’s amazing that – – the words I had just left my mind – but its amazing that by NOT opening up about “talking sharing thoughts and even funny stories” I can actually open up DEEPER into the feelings… and share those

    sometimes ME I don’t even know how deep my feelings are.

    It’s truly amazing being a woman… a GODDESS… it is not just a word but it is true! It’s like I am the world, I am UNKNOWABLE so mysterious, there is something he will never Completely have, because that is woman, the darkness the depth of all that is. He can dive in again and again and again and again there are worlds of mystery that are too much to “Comprehend” only FEEL to teh utmost capacity.

    It is ok to “friend” I think on a mind level and laugh and play, but the INNER LEVEL is magnificent mysterious and unknowable … sometimes I quiet the upper level to touch the inner.

  239.  #239Soignée on March 6, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    Daria, I embrace you!!!!

    You are a dear Goddess!!!

  240.  #240Rachel on March 6, 2010 at 2:05 pm


    I am finding so much inspiration through your journey. Your courage and quiet strength are beautiful… even when you feel weak and shaky!

    Something that really helped me to stand up again after a painful ending was realizing that my guy simply didn’t have the emotional tools to share the depth of relationship that I desired or deserved.

    This moved it from my not “being enough” to him needing to move away because he simply couldn’t open up or give as much as I deserved to receive. Remembering Rori’s example of being a fern that needs watering…. his watering can was empty. We had some deep and beautiful moments (and it sounds like you and S did too), but he couldn’t sustain it over time because his reservoir was so shallow.

    That is why even though you did so much right and opened up so beautifully, S was still not able to fully connect. It is HIS inability … nothing wrong with you!

    You are a beautiful woman… I can tell just by the words that come from your heart.

    Hugs to you. You are loved by people who have never even met you!

  241.  #241Tina on March 6, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    I’m washing the floor in baby steps 🙂 I love my roots, I love my roots, um I havnt decided whether or not to use the hair color I have, or wait for the eco dye to come in the mail. I feel stuck, I love my feelings of feeling stuck. I love my feelings of not being able to make a decision right now 🙂

  242.  #242Linda on March 6, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    Thank you Soignee you again are a wise and helpful. I will remember these things.

    Rachel.. Thank you too. I am totally weeping here. Your comment triggered a flood gate. I needed just what you said. I feel alone and tired. I feel totally weak and shakey. I did some really hard things this week. I feel so thirsty. and needing to be watered. I know I can water myself, concentrating on my self all of those things. It is just that sometimes it is so wonderful to be watered by some one else. You did that just now.

    I have had times of feeling very deeply alone for weeks now. Feeling like a failure. I am so dry.

    I do feel that you are right. S just could not water me his reservoir was shallow and he was so preocuppied and focused on himself. He does not have the skills or emotional capacity to love me like I deserve and need.

    I need a good emotional watering.


  243.  #243heartbeat on March 6, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    Linda – I’m walking alongside you xx

    I’m feeling really moved by these posts and affirmed in my own decision. I feel like I’ve grown so much. I needed to hear a lot of this too, because I have my moments of feeling scared I made the wrong decision, of feeling fearful maybe I wasn’t able to connect in the ‘right’ way. Most of the time that feels untrue – I observed myself this evening at my writers group, I noticed how expressive I am, how I share my feelings, don’t offer long explanations or over-intellectualise. I could feel others connecting with me.

    Rachel – I agree, and thank you – sometimes the guy just hasn’t got the emotional range.

    Wow I feel UTTERLY CAPTIVATED by this thread, feels so POETIC!!!!!!!!!

    Soignee – I love how you write, and I am spellbound by ” It was dark, it was summer, below us there was the belighted sea coast. ” I can feel a poem coming on… if I can borrow your words <3

    Daria that last comment of yours had me swooning, it feels so beautiful.

    WOW, wow and Wow – what a magical soup xxxx

  244.  #244heartbeat on March 6, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    Linda – it’s taken me a few weeks to fully feel back in my magical goddess car (a silver vintage with fairy lights btw) – but looking back it feels like I had a darkness before the dawn – when I remember my posts just a couple days ago. I felt depressed, it was the last push through to light though. All along I’d been rebuilding myself, each week I healed that bit more. I worked through a lot of shit – it tried to stick to me but I scrubbed it off with the help of others here!! I have a golden scrubbing brush now – it’s very gentle and leaves a lovely pink glow 🙂

    Thank you for sharing your story. Every story I read teaches me something. I haven’t put much detail of mine but each story has some element of mine.


  245.  #245Turtle Girl on March 6, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    I can really relate to what Linda has been saying about S. He simply did not have the ability to love on the level she needed.

    That is what happened with my ex. He was in effect a fourteen year old boy. Charming, but not a grown up man with grown up abilities to fully love a woman. It had nothing to do with me. I was fine. He was selfish, immature, self centered, wanted all the benefits but none of the responsibilities of a relationship. Just like a fourteen year old boy. he was angry, bitter and resentful, just like a 14 yo boy would be toward his momma. Only concerned with what he wanted, want he needed and everyone else is not even on the radar.

    I find it very interesting what Soignee said about substance abuse. Since he smoked a lot of pot that is how he got the “feelings” he had. It was his only way of getting in touch with them. He otherwise had none. No empathy. Totally self concerned like a spoiled brat teenager. So sad for him. So pathetic.
    I am still not over him because the times he was tender were the best, but did not sustain the 80 per cent of the rest of it, when it wasn’t very good. I can not live on 20 percent crumbs. I am a Goddess.
    And we need to be watered and cared for. I love the empty watering can metaphor.

  246.  #246Turtle Girl on March 6, 2010 at 4:49 pm


    The wonderful thing is that even if you don’t tell the details of your stories-we know what they are. We feel them and hear them because as women we can read between the lines. We know. We are goddesses and we know what we feel. Each of us has our own– but the same story, we share the same hopes, dreams, goals and feelings even if we are different in size shape and color. I love every one of the women here on siren island even the ones who piss me off. We help each other heal, grow and transform. It is awesome. xxxoo

  247.  #247heartbeat on March 6, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    Love YOU too Turtle Girl 🙂 xx

  248.  #248Linda on March 6, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    Turtle Girl… thank you for commenting.

    Agreeing and settling my thoughts on the fact that S was just not equipped to sustain a relationship is most likely true. It makes sense but it feels really really wrong and cheapens my feelings. It feels like a 14 year old committed a murder and that he should be tried as an adult but instead he is only given a slap on the wrist and say.. “its okay, he just did not know any better”. It feels un just and does not offer me comfort for the wrong he did.

    Where is the middle level ground. When does it become unvolitle emotionally for me?
    What he did was wrong. I admitt I am offended. Lieing and being deceptive is a pretty basic black and white wrong.

    The things you wrote are exactly right. He wanted all the benefit but none of the responsibility. When I found out that he had been talking to another while we were on our trip to florida and I told him that he could do that if he wanted to but all deals between us were off and I was taking the car… He went off the deep end… He accused me of being dishonorable, started calling me names… It was like I was suddenly dealing with an adolesent! I could not believe my ears or his reasoning.

    Holding on to things takes alot of energy I know. Getting on my horse and riding on feels like I am ignoring where I hurt, like I am pretending it is okay. I guess I am not ready to be the mature “adult” right now.

    My drama queen feels in charge right now. You know, S smoked week. Had along history of it to hear him tell. He has not had any in a while but he would say wow I wish I had a few hits right now.

    Interesting paralles. You are right I was not happy with the 20 percent either. Crumbs are crumbs.

    Hugs to you and thanks for your support. All of you, I feel loved and cared for.


  249.  #249Linda on March 6, 2010 at 7:09 pm


    I want a gentle golden scrubbing brush. I wanna be glowing pink too. That word picture feels yummy.


  250.  #250Rachel on March 6, 2010 at 7:33 pm


    Yes what S did was really wrong, but he is NOT getting away with a slap on the wrist. No… he is sentenced to a life of shallow, empty relationships.

    I know that you’ll be grieving (angry, hurt, sad, etc) for awhile, but as much as you can, please turn your emotional energy away from him and onto your beautiful self. That is your gentle golden scrubbing brush!

    You did SO MANY things right. And in this beautifully designed universe, NOTHING is wasted. Every moment where you “got it,” every moment where you stumbled but learned from it, every moment where you allowed your inner light to shine, every moment where you blessed S with your very essence and presence, every moment where you gave the gift of your open heart, EVERY SINGLE MOMENT was an investment in your future. You were constantly learning and growing and each day (even the painful, icky, heartbreaking ones) was a step closer.

    All that you are seeking is also seeking YOU… somewhere out there is a wonderful man who is seeking you. He is daily moving closer to you. And you are moving toward him. You have taken GIANT steps forward over this past week.

    So please let go of trying to figure S out or wishing you could make him pay. Even by mentally replaying and analyzing, you are still turning your beautiful energy toward him and away from your healing and the man you deserve.

    I know this because I have done it so often! Over the next days and weeks, as you put more emotional and physical distance between you and S, things will become much clearer and it will be easier to appreciate that the gift you gave him (yourself) was good and true and right. And that his inability to receive it says NOTHING about you, your worth, your beauty or your loveableness.

    In the meantime, keep soaking up the warm rains of love from each of the goddesses here… this is truly a healing place. Let the water wash away all of the pain and “dirt” … till you are soft and clean and ready to reach for the sun again.

    Sorry this is so long! I just really have you in my heart tonight. Hugs!

  251.  #251Rori Raye on March 6, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    SensualLoveGoddess, Welcome – and you are the perfect woman for Circular Dating – it will cure you of your old patterns of getting so quickly involved and invested in a man. The answers to all your questions are in my Targeting Mr. Right program, including worksheets and workbook and all the nuts-and-bolts, and there’s a lot of free stuff right here on the blog…Love, Rori

  252.  #252SensualLoveGoddess on March 6, 2010 at 10:55 pm

    Hello Rori, thank you for your vote of confidence to venture out into the circular dating world of men…You do know me via email but under another name but this is the first time I have logged onto your blog and left a comment…I actually already and recently have purchased the Targeting Mr Right DVD and watched and listened to it and feel I need to watch it a few times to perfect and be confident in using your Rori tools…I just wanted to get clear on something in the Mr Right DVD and workbook and that is the timing of the NO BOYFRIEND speech as I feel a little confusion around that. First I thought from reading it that you don’t do the speech until the guy I will be dating wants to become ‘exclusive’/ his girlfriend providing I am dating other guys, but I read it again and am wondering whether I need to be open and use the speech say after the first date (2nd date) with a/the guy I am dating to let him know from the beginning that I will be dating other men until the ‘ring’ so to speak?…Any comments are welcome 🙂

  253.  #253Linda on March 7, 2010 at 6:33 am


    The things you tell me feel true to me. When you mentioned the he is sentenced to a life of shallow empty relationships that is very true up to this point in his life. His history is filled with nothing but disappointments, failure and broken relationships.

    My gosh, now that I look at it, every one of his relationships are shallow or non exisitent with his brothers and family. I never really noticed that until now. That is indeed telling and significant! His heart is missing in everything now that I really look at it.

    I needed to read to be reminded that I need to turn my emotional energy toward me. Toward my interests my joys my loves. I started out keeping my focus on me… but it began to drift when things were not going well. I am mindful of how easily that can shift now. As the days passed I felt like I was in a constant tug-of-war because I was dealing with such negative stuff. It is an vibe changer and an a energy zapper.

    I do see lots of things that I did right, with right motive. Little victories for me. I feel really good about those. And to be honest I feel like a winner here in all this. I used tools and discovered they worked and felt good and protective of me. They kept me on my bridge and in the end gave me the strength to walk away.

    Thank you for your words and support and caring. It means so very much to me. We all know how good it feels to be invested in. That is something I have not felt in a long time.

    I love thinking that this journey has made me that much more ready to receive the man that is coming toward me. He is out there looking for me and my job is to just be. I dont want to be alone the rest of my life but I would choose that over being with someone and feeling deeply alone.

    Gratitude and hugs

  254.  #254Linda on March 7, 2010 at 6:51 am

    Rachel…. I wanted to add

    On top of all of this… while caring for myself, I have given him an opportunity (as Daria says) to be a better man. In order to have a goddess like me it takes what I require to “have me”

    Thank you for sharing and directing your care toward my heart. That is where I needed it the most. The sun is out here today, a first in a while. I can hear some birds singing too. Little things that bring me joy and lift my spirits. Think I will go play the piano and sing for a while.

    Linda 🙂

  255.  #255Turtle Girl on March 7, 2010 at 9:11 am


    What you are talking about with S is that you feel that there is NO ACCOUNTABILITY FOR HIS ACTIONS. *sigh*

    I know what that is. and it’s why I brought up being a fourteen year old boy. They do things and do not wish to be held accountable-they “get away with murder”
    as it were. His momma prolly let him or his Daddy, but it does not matter.

    My ex used to say he was “the golden boy” so he was treated in a way that he did not have to be accountable when he did things that hurt people or were irresponsible.

    His life destined to shallow unfulfilled relationships may or may not be true but it does not matter. It is about me and how I feel and about you and how you feel. And we did not feel loved, cherished or honored with these men. And THAT is what this is about.

  256.  #256Linmayu on March 7, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    I feel fascinated! I want to jump back in on this blog and comment. I want to surf the wave of everyone’s experiences.

    I feel overwhelmed. I feel like I can’t keep up. And I have an amazing story. I just came out of the most amazing 6 month experiment in circular dating WITHOUT ever going on a date. There was a man I ran into several times a week during the course of my normal activities, and in his presence from the day I met him, I felt all these wonderful, passionate feelings–and all the icky fears that go with them! Over 6 months, I watched myself and watched my reactions, watched myself open up to this individual and watched him open up to me. I noticed that when I felt good about myself and loved myself, he was attentive and affectionate with me, and when I focused on him and felt obsessed with him (which was often) or fearful I’d “lose” his attention, he ignored me. And when I felt ICKY and expressed that I felt icky, then I noticed him being drawn to me like a magnet.

    As soon as I realized that, he disappeared from my life. Talk about being a messenger! And I certainly miss him, but I am ready for bigger things, things that will require my complete focus and have nothing to do with men. 🙂

  257.  #257dorothea on March 7, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    LINMAYU!!!!! Wee what’s up girl

  258.  #258Goodheart on March 8, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    Earthdancer, I feel it’s our time when we DECIDE it’s our time. I’ve decided my time is NOW. I’ve spent the last several days pondering this. I have spent so much of my time focused on what I wasn’t getting (and I kept getting more of the same – nothing!). Now I’m focusing on what I WANT. I feel the shift in my emotions. I am putting my energy into only what I desire. I deserve everything I want and SO DO YOU!

    You will have it. Believe that it’s on it’s way to you. You deserve all the happiness that you see everyone else experiencing.

    I look back on my life & the times I was sad & dwelt on it, I just kept getting sadder & nothing good ever came into my life. When I focused on good things & changed my emotions, I got more good things! It’s a snowball & we make it. I’m tired of sadness & feeling a “lack” in my life. I’m focusing on all my abundance & I feel happier & the universe is sending me more good stuff!

    I send you good vibes, Earthdancer (that’s a spectacular name!) 🙂

  259.  #259Erika Awakening on March 8, 2010 at 7:55 pm

    Great post, Rori, thank you.

    It took quite a while for me to realize that this journey is not about finding “the man.”

    It’s about realizing that we are connected to each and every human being who crosses our path.

    When we judge them, we are only judging ourselves, and attracting judgment right back toward us in the Mirror that is Life.

    I love having so many men in my life now, it is such a blessing, and may I throw in how much I adore the (very) young men who pursue me. Their vitality matches my own, and we seem to be perfect for each other.


  260.  #260Daria on March 8, 2010 at 10:51 pm

    Here’s another to the cradle robbers club!

    Ive waited a long time to be that 28 year old that takes 14 year old boys virginity (wait dont arrest me i havent done it yet!) – but I was “marked” by this and jealous when my higschool boyfriend told me thats how he did it – and ive heard other similar stories as i float along

  261.  #261Debbie on March 9, 2010 at 5:39 am

    I am so excited, I finally order Modern Siren, I can’t wait to get it! I have been following your emails for awhile now and they have help alot since I have been trying this circular dating, But the other night I realized I really need help and now!!!!
    My teen age daughter over heard me on the phone with a man the she said, “Mom why when you talk to him do you always sound like you just crawled into a shell!”
    That’s when I thought, Wow, I really need help if my own daughter who not even dating yet can see the obvious!
    So ready, set, go, and I am off!

  262.  #262SensualLoveGoddess on March 9, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    Hi again, I have started dating a guy who seems very nice kind sensitive good open communicator and I like him, but I am too scared to have the No Boyfriend conversation with him as I feel scared if I do have it with him he will leave or start dating other women…this is the first time for me to go through this process of circular dating…I am not actually dating any else yet and am unsure as to when to actually broach it with him. Logistically I have only dated him once and spoken a couple of times on the phone, so feel a bit confused as to when, at what point do I actually have such a conversation with the man and how to go about it so it sounds and is authentic from the heart…Does anyone have any ideas or comments?

  263.  #263Lovely on March 9, 2010 at 7:35 pm

    Hi there, this is my first visit here, I love this woman’s advice. How has it been working for people here? I have had success, as it were, using leanback. But, have a harder time understanding, really, any other tools from the eBook.

    I’ve also been through a shakeup in my own, dream-like relationship, happening since last September. This guy just… played me. I hate to use that word. But, was all perfect. I met his family, his kids, his friends, his colleagues, he took me out of the country on a 10-day trip which was fabulous, flew me to see him and he came to see me, very frequently (every 1-2 weeks normally (there had been only two 3-week lengths ever between our visits)). Gave me great cards (You are wonderful. I hope our relationship will continue to grow.), and diamond earrings for V-day. Then, 2 weeks later (I saw him in between and things were fine then too; and we always laugh tons and have a great time), he says “I’m not diving in and I want to figure out why.” Then the next day, “I think we should take a break. You need to concentrate on school (I just went back to school) and I need to figure out this thing [medical condition he has].”

    Then nothing. No communication. But, he sent me 2 emails last week. And asked me to let him know what happens with a doctor thing I was going to today. I’ve not called him. Though, I did break down and call him last night, when I asked if he had been genuine with me “before,” of course he said yes, and that he needs to get rid of this thing [his medical thing, which has been diagnosed and for which there really is no fix-it].

    So of course I’m wondering why we are not speaking. Why he isn’t calling. Though, when I write it, it seems obvious, right? He is either not into me, or needs that figuring it out time, before commiting, or something.

    I have never pushed this thing, it has consistently been him pushing. And, true true, and unfortunately, I have not made my level of difficulty at all difficult. I tried a few times, but he totally balked, and I caved. And I regret it, and am hoping it’s not too late.

    Because he was busy orchestrating the whole thing the whole time, I didn’t have a lot of time to think about what I really felt for him, but I have realized that he is actually really, really important to me. And I really miss talking with him.

    He lives out of town so I am used to not seeing him all the time, but… I miss not speaking with him often, as we were when he was calling me daily.

    Any advice? Any advice about what I can say whenever he does get in touch with me next? Just talk about how I feel? I’m not sure where in the eBook to find the other “tools,” and really only know about the “feel” messages and the leanback. What else is there?

  264.  #264Lovely on March 9, 2010 at 7:40 pm

    Also, to sensuallovegoddess, I don’t think you need to have that conversation with a guy until he asks you to be exclusive. Or, I think that is what I have read in a newsletter. I think I read in that newsletter also that a guy who “is worth it” will know that it is true, that he does need to give you a commitment before you will be exclusive. I think that’s what I read in a Rori newsletter.

  265.  #265Rori Raye on March 10, 2010 at 10:24 am

    Welcome, Lovely, and the Tools are in all my programs. The ebook is the start, the basics – and there’s way more in there than you’re accessing. Do each and every chapter, do the writing…practice the Sensual Meditation, stop Overfunctioning, Listen at Level 2 and use Feeling Messages. Now – in Reconnect Your Relationship we start with Boundaries, and Strong Surrender get’s going in Commitment Blueprint and Modern Siren – and Modern Siren is all about going “soft” and attraction. Circular Dating nuts-and-bolts and the whole “diva” thing is in Targeting Mr. Right. Heart Connection Toolkit is all for self-esteem boost and a whole lot of small, useful Tools for grounding and believing in yourself and in love. That said – here’s the hard part – it doesn’t MATTER what’s wrong, or why he’s backing off. It could be the medical, it could be that something’s missing for him with you – and that would mean that YOU’RE missing it with HIM, too, though it’s hard to see, I know. The most important thing you can do for yourself now is Circular Date – and you need to Circular Date not just to be “dating” – but to practice the Tools…to practice the strong on the inside, soft on the outside core of what we’re doing here…the ebook will help you tremendously if you PRACTICE on men! Love, Rori

  266.  #266Rori Raye on March 10, 2010 at 10:25 am

    Yep, Lovely – that’s the truth. A man may grumble about it – but he knows he has no exclusive claim on you without the commitment. Love, Rori

  267.  #267Lovely on March 10, 2010 at 10:42 am

    Thank you, Rori, I really appreciate and feel grateful for your individual feedback. 🙂

    I know this is true, about it doesn’t matter what is wrong or what he is doing, though I feel entirely aggravated by a “woman’s lot” in this world, under those circumstances. I feel empty-empty-empty that women seem to need to just go on moment to moment, that anything that otherwise could feel reliable, needs to be felt, instead, just like a happy moment. At the same time, with this medical-condition guy, I always did say that I feel happy with him, and I did. Now, did I feel disconnected by our lack of deep communication also, yes a bit. But I didn’t, and still don’t know how to broach that, though I feel like what I have read in your eBook, is that my broaching as much of my life experience as possible, with him and every man, will draw them closer… Do I have that right?

    Post-this-thing, I’m feeling rather rock-bottom, which I’ve read in your eBook also as being a pretty good spot to be in, even when it feels pretty hopeless. At least kind of. (I am actually an eternal optimist, or possibly masochist? I struggle with which that really is, the eternal hope for… love, what should be an entitlement of any human being, I feel confident in saying.)

    Toward that end, I have been trying to get some volunteering in, to be able to extend some love to folks who really need that [too].

    Anyway, thank you again. I feel good, here.

  268.  #268SensualLoveGoddess on March 10, 2010 at 8:59 pm

    Hello Lovely (and Rori)
    Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post above re: timing of the No Boyfriend speech and I believe I now understand it to be when he approaches me to be ‘exclusive’ with him that I communicate the above speech, so does that mean in the meantime if I want to or have to opportunity to date another man I can without having made the speech, because I get the feeling I may have to share this speech before I start dating other men..Is that right?
    LOVELY: I hope I have it right, but I heard you say you find it difficult to broach certain issues with your man/boyfriend in the past and that Rori’s book encourages us to share our feelings and concerns, in otherwords be authentic, be real, but the way I understand Rori’s book reads regarding your question is, that it is the WAY we communicate what we feel and think and are concerned about that makes all the difference and a greater possibility of success in your relationship/s and feeling heard accepted and loved and adored by your man. So if you refer to Rori”s book in section of communication and scripts about starting with getting in touch with what you are feeling and feeling it and then expressing that feeling and expressing what you don’t want to have or happen or what you want to have or happen without putting him into these statements , meaning you take full responsibility for what you are feeling and what you do or don’t want which frees him up from being judged criticised coerced or manipulated (not good enough or inadequate) by you, which in turn empowers you as it gives you the freedom to speak your truth with love and often what happens it opens up a space for peace resolution and joy…I am still mastering the listening at level 2 which I feel will probably be important in the way we communicate with our partner….wishing you all great success and joy in all your relationships…

  269.  #269Linda on March 11, 2010 at 5:05 am

    I cant tell you how many times what you have written here I have done. The way we communicate is very very important. When I broke it off with S last week I spoke my truth and my feelings. I was not prepared and wished that I had shared a couple of other things. Even though I knew he was writing and planning to meet other women, even though he had lied to me over and over, I did not bring that up. I kept it about ME and what I wanted.

    It keeps thing from the blame game and I like that.


  270.  #270Lovely on March 11, 2010 at 6:55 am

    SensualLoveGoddess, thank you very, very much for your take on how to process Rori’s advice regarding speaking and knowing our feelings. Overnight (I barely slept, alas), I was going over a mishap at xmas where I mis-spoke, and yes, critically, when I really was speaking from my feelings.

    I’d love to hear anyone’s reactions-to-feelings conversion techniques, and how they evolved to making that more natural, a quicker shift. Seems natural that, if, say, I just -ask- myself how I am feeling, say, every half hour, including why I feel that way, that that might help. But I’d love to hear others’ stories too.

    Regarding the exclusive speech, yes I see no reason to broach the subject unless someone asks to be exclusive.

    I have an ex who is trying to get back into my life, and he knows my perspective, and is rebelling against it saying he can’t get close to me if he knows I am having dates with others. So I do have some questions about how it might be broached more “sensitively”. Possibly, “I do not consider us exclusive until we have a commitment between us,” leaving dates with others out of my comments?

    With this ex, I did say that I would not even consider exclusivity until I felt like he was dedicated to me. Giving me, in my mind at the moment anyway, all the time in the world….

    Thinking about my long-distance D, I feel confident he will come forward at some point, and instead of blaming him, per Linda’s sage comment, I feel good about thinking about what I need from him, which is at least a relationship with open communication (the break was announced “I think we should,” without establishing what was meant, nor at a time when either of us had time to discuss it, so I wasn’t even able to get out that I’m not in a place with him where I am comfortable with commitment (or engagement), either”. But I do feel sad about that one, it was a fun, good relationship, no arguing, tons of laughs.

  271.  #271Lovely on March 12, 2010 at 8:18 am

    In case anyone is watching my progress… D called me this morning, and went over what he doesn’t want to do, which is to be what he is terming, “a loser boyfriend.” His sister has dated someone for years, and, he says, he is trying to figure out what it is he does want. He said that while before he met me he -thought- he wanted to share his life with someone, he is now trying to figure out if that is really want he wants. (??) I didn’t ask any questions, same as when he announced the break, and I let him know that I’d feel free to see others.

    I’m thinking it could be worth reminding him that I am not rushing him, that he can take all the time he needs, and a reminder that I’ll not stay exclusive, am planning on, if we see each other more that I’d prefer to see less of him, though that I’d stay sexually exclusive for now, and remind him that I feel wonderful about what he and I have (because i do). So, a mini commitment speech thing??

    Good idea, or just let it be? I did cover much of that in our conversation.

  272.  #272Rori Raye on March 12, 2010 at 9:11 am

    Lovely – You’re doing great. I think I’d just nod my head, say “Yeahhhh, I get that, and I feel the same way.” Smile and when he runs out of steam talking, the conversation can move to something else exciting and good-feeling…it’ll be all around you….Love, Rori

  273.  #273Lovely on March 12, 2010 at 9:36 am

    Thank you!! This is all on the phone though (D’s in another city, it’s long-distance)… so… I did, I sent a mini commitment note, with a bunch of “I feels” including the part I borrowed from a proposed commitment speech that “Nancy” wrote a year ago regarding sexual exclusivity.

    Thank you again though!

  274.  #274Lovely on March 12, 2010 at 9:47 am

    And, yes, I probably should not have broached the subject again given that I had done so in our conversation, and where he “went on” was about not wanting to be another “loser boyfriend” like his sister had. He mentioned not knowing what he wanted loudly enough to me though that I had wanted to get out a part about “take however much time as you need” to him, while adding a reminder that i’d not be waiting in the wings. I’d also said that the time off we’d had had been great for me and that I’d not want to see him as often again, because it was a bit too much for me. ?? *sigh* I won’t feel -too- bad about writing the email, but will also erase his number from his call this morning, so I don’t reach out in a moment of weakness.

  275.  #275Erika Awakening on March 12, 2010 at 10:33 pm

    Is anyone else really feeling bored with talking about men? 😉

    Today my dad and I went to the home store here. It was snowing on the way, really heavy, beautiful.

    We picked out a sample of some lovely crema marfil marble, it felt so solid in my hands, it’s so pretty to look at, and a sample cabinet door, and some sample slate flooring tiles. I loved how the colors of each element all brought out the best in each other.

    I noticed today how impatient I felt with the recent bullshit from a particular guy, how I have zero tolerance for it, how I no longer care whether I “say the right thing” or piss him off or whatever. I also notice that I really don’t want to talk about it. I’m bored with talking about “what happened with this guy” or “that guy” or whatever.

    Much more excited about White Tiger Tantra that I scheduled tonight with Steve P., upcoming NYC trip to talk to a group of (hopefully) hundreds of guys, and picking out those stone and wood samples.

    Much more interested in whether it’s going to be a good ski day tomorrow, and how the heck I’m going to fit doing my taxes into my schedule over the next few weeks.

    Really done with trying to “say the right thing” so as not to offend a man. F*ck it. Starting today, I’m just going to say whatever the f*ck I feel like. I’ll even use “you” statements and tell them what their “issues” are if I want.

    I stopped walking on eggshells a long time ago, but now I’m really not even going to try to be diplomatic. I’m certainly not going to pussyfoot around his ego or his gaping psychic wounds.

    I can feel those wounds from miles away, that’s what I’ve trained myself to do as a coach, be able to feel them intuitively. How is it helpful for me to ignore them and dance around them?

    Let the chips fall where they may 🙂

    God, I love this house, it feels so peaceful here.

    My dad is pretty cool too.


  276.  #276Lovely on March 12, 2010 at 11:01 pm

    Hi Ericka, curious that you should open with that; I was thinking the same thing this evening…. it certainly -feels- boring anyway. And I’m not mocking “feeling” messages by saying that, it just came out (hey, maybe it’s taking hold already); tho I still say things about “their” issues just as easily, still, too.

    So it’s snowing there… you must be on the east coast? It’s so nice to live in a beautiful place. Where I live, big midwest city, while my yard itself can be beautiful, the city is not, not in my neighborhood anyway. I’ve got getting out of here on my list, though am in school (ms degree, going [way] back to school right now). Are you the Erick who is an EFT person? I am actually fascinated to hear that you can pick up people’s issues/things easily, specifically because I am so bad at that. I always look [too hard?] for the good, and so end up buying into whatever is being sold. Works poorly in dealing with men, though here, for me anyway, at least figuring out what I’m feeling can help steer me where my intuition and just how I think of people doesn’t help me avoid bad things, typically (re all things, people I hire, jobs, lots of places/things/people).

    I’d love to hear more about your coaching things, if you aren’t sick of it that is. I’d also love to hear how your house is so lovely and peaceful… so I can envision a new place for me once this school is finished.

  277.  #277Jeannette on March 13, 2010 at 8:48 am

    Rori, I just listened to ‘Modern Siren” and it was truly amazing. But, now I see how I over functioned in my 2 1/2 year long distance. Now I understand why he went away. Is there anything I can say now to bring him back? About my stupidity and desperation? I am only asking because he is a guy who is worth his weight in gold. I have not contacted him in over a week and neither have a heard much from him except for an email, forwarded about prayer and how praying for another is so essential (like that is what he is doing for me now , like ‘I pray that you will get what you want’ sort of prayer). Is there anything I can say Rori or is it the best tactic to just stay the heck a way and lean back harder than I ever knew how. What if he never shows up again? I need to learn how to let go of the fear, I mean REALLY let go. He may already be swept up in another relationship. Please let me know what I can do or should do at this point. I know first and foremost I need to take care of myself. I don’t know if I should pick up the phone or not IF he calls. I wonder if I should be a scarce commodity for a while….or used feeling messages. It’s very hard because he is such a nice man. I mean I have been with several Rori and he IS nice. Is there anything I can do to that I may have another opportunity here? I just want to do this right with him. Thanks Rori and thanks for Modern Siren!!

  278.  #278Rori Raye on March 13, 2010 at 9:37 am

    As Orna says – “You can’t say the wrong thing to the right person….” Rori

  279.  #279Earthdancer on March 13, 2010 at 11:39 am

    Thanks Goodheart 🙂 your kindness & wisdom comes at such a good time for me…I am going to spend the weekend pondering what you said…it rings true; thank you! All the posts on here are SO helpful, so truthful, so vulnerable…I’m learning…

  280.  #280Linda on March 13, 2010 at 11:58 am

    I am stuck somewhere between how ericka and jeannette feel. Add the boy and girl energies in me on top of knowing that I need to learn and be comfortable with just receiving. I just had to get up and take a shower. They make me feel better.

    What I feel like right now is wanting to it right. Wondering what my plan of action should be to get what I want. On the other hand, if I do or say anything, I will not mence any words, nor walk on eggshells either. I will even use the word YOU when discussing “issues” I am tired of being diplomatic and responsible and mature in my responses to life.

    Wow, I did that on the dating website, told some men in email reponses to their emails, what I thought. It felt good. It felt good to not be diplomatic, just honest. I dont think I will ever just tromp around with my cleated army boots all over somebody as a normal mode of operating, but I might do it once in a while when necessary.

    I got some stuff welling up inside me, It is gonna burst. It feels like its gonna be messy too.

    So…. you cant say the wrong thing to the right person?…. I am gonna test that theroy out! just so I know for sure. Yep gonna do it.


  281.  #281Erika Awakening on March 14, 2010 at 8:57 am

    hi Lovely,

    What a lovely name Lovely is. Thanks so much for your comment 🙂

    Yeah, we had a big storm here, I’m actually in the mountains, near Squaw Valley. Skiing is one of my big time passions because of how it makes me feel. Free, light, full of endorphins and fresh mountain air, among the trees, and with snow purifying everything. I really love it.

    And the house, well, the house could be an amazing spiritual retreat, everything is so soft here, with a view into the trees and snow in the back yard. With high ceilings so you can breathe and feel spacious. A cappuccino maker for the mornings. And a hot tub for soaking and sipping a glass of wine under the trees in the evening.

    Wow, it would be so fun to have a Goddess retreat here 🙂

    I am curious what kind of school you are in, what you are studying, if you enjoy it? Sounds like you feel a little trapped in your city though.

    To answer your questions, yes, I am the EFT Erika. I’ve actually created a new system, called Holistic Belief Reprogramming, and EFT is just one of the tools. If you click on my name at the top of my comments, you can see my website and sign up for the free 7-day video course. It’s a nice complement to everything Rori’s teaching because it helps all the changes women are making to feel more natural and organic. And accelerates results dramatically.

    It also greatly enhances intuition, so that you will be much better able to read the deeper emotional mettle of the men who show up.

    Feel free to email me also.


  282.  #282Jennifer on April 21, 2010 at 9:40 am


    I’m coming in late on this post, but I’ve also just about given up on dating on line or on dating period. The only thing it seems like guys want are to find someone who they can sleep with or they want someone younger. I’m sorry I’ve put myself out there after breaking up with my boyfriend because he didn’t exactly give me what I wanted at the time and now I’m single and he’s getting married in a couple of weeks.

    What is anyone’s advice on dating when you feel like everyone you go out with is looking for someone younger, skinnier, slutier. I don’t think any of the advice that I’ve read here or in books really works in the real world. I’d like to see posts from women that have actually met their husbands or are in relationship because of advice they have gotten here or somewhere else. I know so many wonderful, attractive women that continue to be single.

    Thank you!

  283.  #283Rori Raye on April 21, 2010 at 10:06 am

    Jen – Circular Dating works. Online dating works – it takes some serious effort, time, focus, and attention…you have to keep at it in the easiest way possible so you don’t burn out while you are working your way through the process. There are so many success stories….I have many to tell, Evan Marc Katz (online dating is his specialty) has tons of success stories. I’ve found that often, doing the online dating in a diligent way makes it so you meet a man in your daily life – and you’re just way more ready for him. Love, Rori

  284.  #284Lovely on April 21, 2010 at 10:51 pm

    Hi, Jen, I have had “success” of a sort, short-term anyway, using the I feel sorts of communications, and certainly the not contacting men unless they request that I call them back. I remember when I first read that, years ago how unnatural that feels So ‘years ago,’ how successful have I been, you might ask? Well, you do need to be stringent, it seems. Then, watching my married [to a surgeon] friend go about her day, even married, with 5 kids, she -never- calls her husband; so there is definitely something to that, as unnatural and… difficult for us overfunctioners it feels sometimes!

    When you can hold yourself back, it does bring men toward you. It IS hard, at least for me, but when I do it, it works. I remember when I first heard it, and didn’t call back if they’d not asked me to, thinking, well, I’ll never hear from them again, and yet… they call again, and over and over. So, just try [hard] to change your approach, and if you can stick to it, when you do, it works. It IS HARD! For me anyway.

    *I feel like there should be some sort of an online 24/7 support group, so encourage you to hold back if / when you are tempted! But good luck. And, circular dating, when you get into it, is just enjoyable. Men are trying to impress you, and you can just enjoy the times, laughing, and yes, they like to take you out and treat you to nice times. When I get going, it’s pretty easy to have several dates a week. I’m too busy currently, but maybe my summer will turn into that again. If you try, it is easy to get that going, tons of dates, and just enjoying seeing who is out there, and laughing and taking it easy.

  285.  #285Lovely on April 21, 2010 at 10:58 pm

    Mm, too, Jen, I also had a -major- law of attraction list for my mate, and the guy who turned up last fall, met every single one of my criteria. We are officially on a break currently, and it actually was begun -while- I was stepping forward, like, on that call (eek). And now, when I lean back, he is still calling. I’ve not seen him again, yet, though leaning back as hard as I can, he has been bringing up coming to see me (long-distance). We’ll see. And for me, that holding / leaning back is SO hard sometimes, but, it does work.

    Anyway, the law of attraction list of your ideal relationship, and I used to read mine to myself at least 3x a day (am, lunch, pm), actually seems to work, as unlikely as it seems. My perception of it is a) that it puts you into an attractive, happy state, and b) that regardless, it definitely takes you out of any negative things going on, because you are putting yourself into awesome-feeling states 3x a day, which starts to leak into your reality, and you end up -feeling- great then, too. 🙂

  286.  #286Jessica Stewarts on October 24, 2010 at 2:18 am

    how is this possible