Help From The Good Wife

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ย The Good Wife is one of my favorite shows ever, with one of my favorite actresses ever – Julianna Margulies playing Alicia Florrick – one of my all-time favorite characters.

At the very end of this season’s finale, there’s a cell phone conversation between Alicia and the man she’s actually in love with – Will, just as she’s standing in the wings of a major press conference ready to appear with her husband, who has betrayed and humiliated her, but repented and trying to become a better man.

It’s not that Alicia has not forgiven her husband for his infidelities and lying in the past…she simply has fallen out of love with him. She’s just not in a place where she feels it anymore.

This is what I’m always talking about – when a man treats you badly – you can choose to reconnect with him or not. You can, depending upon your circumstances react emotionally or logically. But bottom line – if a man treats you badly – you look at him differently.

If you’re a woman who thinks badly of herself – you’ll love him more for hurting you. If you think highly of yourself, you’ll think less of him for treating you badly – or even just marginally.

In other words – he doesn’t have to HURT you to make you think less of him – all he has to do is mildly neglect you, or just not step up and want to fulfill your basic womanly emotional and physical and survival instinct needs.

That’s why I love Alicia. She isn’t consumed with trying to blame him or with anger about what happened and what he did – she’s concerned with creating as good a life for herself and her children as she can. Sometimes that means being around him and caring about him because he’s the father of her children and because she has such a powerful history with him. And sometimes it means just not caring at all, and allowing herself to care about another man.

It isn’t about revenge. She just wants to let a man love her. It’s “may the best man win” – and the new man (actually an old flame) – is simply shaping up to be the far better man.

While her husband is working to “shape up” – Will already is a terrific man – in ALL respects. He’s honorable, smart, honest. And there’s no guessing where his heart is.

So – though she’s pulled in different directions…she’s always looking for the path that’s best for her and her children. Here’s how she handled this converstaion:

Will: I just want to make myself clear (he’s wanting to tell Alicia that he loves her and wants a real relationship with her…)

Alicia: No..

Will: I just need to say it straight out…when I look at you…

Alicia: No. Show me the plan.

Will: What?

Alicia: The Plan… I get the romance… I need a plan.

Will: Not everything needs a plan.

Alicia: Everything that matters does. I have 2 kids that mean the world to me, I have the press…waiting for a whiff of scandal…and I have a husband…So…If you want to cut through all that noise, then show me a plan.ย  Poetry is easy. It’s the parent-teacher conferences that are hard. I have to go now.

Here she hangs up, goes back to the wings, and is just about to be called onstage to stand with her husband, who is now running for public office again…

Will stands, staring out the window.

Then, back to Alicia – when her phone rings.ย 

It’s Will – she can see his name on the phone – and he’s calling back presumably with a plan.

What will she do?

Fade to black – we’ll find out next season…

So – How can this help us?

When a man keeps saying how much he likes you, or loves you, but isn’t ready for a commitment…follow Alicia’s instincts. You GET the romance…but you need a plan.

That’s why Circular Dating is so crucial. Until he comes up with a plan – there’s nothing to go on. There’s really nothing to say.

Alicia is a marvelous character who – instead of trying to bend other people to her will, instead of walking up to her husband or to Will and telling them what she wants and how to give it to her…she just goes about her life – living it as strongly and fulfillingly as she can. She savors the great-feeling moments, and doesn’t look for closure.

She speaks plain. She says it like it is professionally, as a lawyer, and personally, with her kids and everyone else.

And – she just keeps moving ahead until the men in her life put out a plan. Then she can make a decision.

This is just such a Siren way to be. You just keep playing on Siren island until the man shows up with a plan.

Love to you, Rori


  1.  #1Daria on June 16, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    Yay – I like how this is said.. This is what I wanted – and i hope got across – to Security… yum

    i feel freer to say this directly… i feel excited i had ‘got’ this some before it was written out… i feel excited this is not too businessy yeah

  2.  #2Wendy on June 16, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    This article has helped me to understand how to increase my difficulty. Its not about making demands. But it is about honoring myself. I have been feeling numb lately and now realize how I was making my current situation an imaginary one. I ALSO REALIZE HOW HE IS THE ONE WHO NEEDS TO MAKE A PLAN. and he needs to feel in his heart that he wants to love and cherish me before he can even see the map to make a plan!
    Until than I will do as you suggest and stay on my Siren Island and try to love and pamper myself

  3.  #3Ann on June 16, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    This is one of the best you have written Rori. It is so on target. It is never good to sit around and wait. Tell them directly how you feel, then go about your business. The guy will get that he will lose you if he is neglectful or not paying enough attention. They begin to realize, “Hey, she has not been emailing,texting, calling…” What is up with that? Well, hey, I am playing out here and enjoying by “Siren”ess… They will work it until they can get it. Great stuff.

  4.  #4earthy on June 16, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    i have been reading many of these posts but it is the first time that i write in here….my problem with applying all the tools is: i understand the value of all of them! and am experimenting with those new ways of being around a man…however, how can i deal with the fact that i am in my mid 30s and want to have children, which makes me anxious about WHEN the tools will actually bring the result of attracting a compatible, non-toxic man? i get stressed about the biological clock and this sabotages my efforts…please help!

  5.  #5Desiree on June 16, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    Thank you so much for this. I feel like I am on my way out of a 2-year long distance relationship and just starting to date a local man. I don’t feel like either one can or will step up in the way I need them to. Mr. LDR has 2 jobs and still makes half my salary and Mr. Local has been laid off for 9 months (and Local pulls out his wallet way more than LDR does!)
    I’m just coasting downhill in other areas because of my love life, and I’m so glad I read this because otherwise I would’ve made my situation worse by trying to have a deep discussion about this. I don’t like paying for stuff. So unless I’m buying a present for a specific occasion, I won’t be paying for anything. No “talk” needed. If any guy questions my behavior, I will simply tell them I don’t feel comfortable paying for the meal/movie/whatever.
    I feel really down on myself, though. I’ve spent so much time and money trying to please others lately and I feel really dumb about it. I have 2 degrees and I was still stupid enough to think that buying a man a plane ticket was a good idea. I’ve also gained 50 pounds over the past year and do not feel like myself. Does anyone have any motivating, comforting, or encouraging words? I have been acting like the opposite of The Good Wife and I feel lost.

  6.  #6Katie on June 16, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    Oh – this post is so strength giving.

    YES ‘poetry’ is easy and so easy for me to fall for, most women too.

    ‘Poetry’ is it seems, easy for men to say then forget they ever said, once they’ve settled into a pattern of relating and stopped feeling the pursuit thing. Their words of passion are often to do with getting a woman to have sex. It’s exciting and flattering. Problem is it doesn’t mean a man has bonded in any way! And I’ve always made assumptions from my female perspective – then ouch, i’ve ended up with heartache again. NOT ANYMORE THOUGH!

    I am feeling much stronger in my boundaries and starting to see how stronger boundaries can help me in the next relationship I have with a man.

    Thanks Rori and others here x

  7.  #7gina on June 16, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    Wow, the site looks great!! I love having access to videos – thanks, Rori!

    I was watching this video and it just got me thinking about the inner workings of a player:

    and how shocking it was to realize that real life men behave this way. It’s confusing! Is this man exhibiting sociopathic behavior (by going around creating false scenarios to “trick” women into giving it up to him??? Or would it just take the “right woman” to inspire him? I feel so weirded out by “players” – yet so attracted at the same time!

  8.  #8Katie on June 16, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Desiree – stop trying to please others! I can say this to you because i have spent large portions of my life doing just that, because I felt unloved and I wanted to be liked.
    Also I love to give service genuinely. Problem is even with best intentions people don’t necessarily see it as strength they pick up that underneath there is a lack of strong self worth then under value what I have given and this has caused me excruciating pain in relationships. I have felt under valued and misunderstood!! Even within my own family sometimes. So I am turning it around bit by bit – it takes time. Feel your worth Desiree, your abilities, your strengths, buy yourself a gift or two. Have a candlelit bath, watch a chic flik with a girl friend. Go down to the sea and listen to waves.

    Don’t know if this helps but hey I recognise in your words a little bit of myself, where I’ve been and I’ve felt lost, still do sometimes but I am on the right path now just need to keep putting one foot infront of the other, with a big smile ๐Ÿ™‚ xx

  9.  #9Sweetpea on June 16, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    Rori thank you! Once again, what I need to hear when I need to hear it. This new CD I met is stepping up BIG time! I feel adored, cared for & like my needs are more important than his own. I can’t say any guy in my life has made me feel this way to this extent. He asked me today, “soooo, do I have any competition for your affection?” Later he told me that he had a sense of deja vu when he saw me, that this just FEELS right & later that he’s had his “playtime” and is looking for a life partner. When I told him I feel safe with him, he said he wants me to feel WAY more than safe. So I’m not wondering what he’s thinking… When I told him, “You feel way more open to me than I thought was humanly possible at our age” he told me “I take that as a huge compliment! thank you!!”

    So when he asked the affection question, I told him I AM dating other guys. It feels like it’s time for the “no girlfriend” speech. I don’t know how to do this part. I didn’t expect to need it this fast! I just started CDing consistently about 6 weeks ago! (I told him we have lots to talk about & called him “whirlwind” after the life partner comment. He said, “I know. Its odd. But very pleasant.”) So I decided to just wade in here & see what happens and asked him, “If I told you I was going to keep my options open & keep dating casually until I have a ring on my finger what would you think?” He told me he’s not the super jealous type and asked if it works both ways. I told him “No.” He then told me “I don’t scare easily” and then “You like to test limits a bit. No worries. I like that little rebellious streak.” Really? Does any thing faze this guy? He’s the same one I told in my second email to him that the fact he doesn’t want kids concerns me because I want kids and I don’t want a relationship with someone who doesn’t. He told me he can’t have kids but if our relationship gets that deep we can adopt. Seriously! Nothing deters him.

    The funniest part is the last guy who said stuff like this freaked me out! Of course I wasn’t attracted to him…

    So the new CD & I are going to revisit this conversation on our date on Friday. But I don’t know how to explain CDing to him (I know I won’t call it that) or know what to tell him about why I can but he can’t. He’s already wanting to set dates w/ me way ahead of time. Were going out Friday and he’s invited me out Saturday & Sunday. Last Sunday, he asked me out for Tuesday but I didn’t have any time available. I think if I allow it, he will just keep booking as much time with me as possible. If I don’t already have plans, should I accept & just keep letting him step up or should I limit him so I have time for other CDs? Logically this is all happening too fast, but I’m comfortable with it. I just listened to your Kat Knecht interview & it really resonated with me when you were excited for her about things having moved so fast with her & her husband & commented on how things just start falling in place. Is that what’s happening here?

    Oh. I should add, he & I have very similar philosophies & are even reading the same book. What a coincidence! I can safely say THAT has never happened before without planning it. I need help!

  10.  #10Orna Walters on June 16, 2010 at 4:14 pm


    I’m sending you a big ((( H U G ))). Please register for a FR*E teleclass tomorrow:
    3 Steps to Overcoming Ugly Belief System and Developing Your Own Beautiful Thought Syndrome!
    Thursday, June 17th, 2010
    5pm Pacific/8pm Eastern

    Youโ€™ll learn how to get into alignment with your highest intentions so that you can create Love, Self-Worth and increase your Net-Worth.

    I hope you can join us tomorrow.


  11.  #11Jennifer on June 16, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    I FB’d B to tell him I’m moving. Cause I figure..I was upset that he didn’t tell me he was moving, so to do the same would make me a hypocrite. I don’t want to be a hypocrite.
    I need to consider my personal ethical frame work.
    We got into another email debate. I must be frikin nuts.
    He says it’s hard to make me feel visible after I left him. Now he’s there alone.
    Here is my reply.

    Being alone is a natural consequence of me feeling invisible. I felt invisible for a long time before I left you. You had lots of opportunities to give me what I needed.

    If you had really wanted to prove to me that I WAS visible to you..that I mattered, you could have. I never said I wouldn’t see fact I told you you could show me what you wanted. You showed me MSN chats. You showed me nothing. Why should it be easy to get me back? Your behaviour was disrespectful to the point of distain.

    I deserve to be pursued, have an effort put out on my behalf. I deserve a man who is brave enough to come get me. Who cares about the things I care about. Because I care about them.

    Love is sacred Ben. Do you know how rare it is to have someone in you life who loves you? REALLY loves you? Wants the best for you? Is upset if you are not treated fairly? Hopes for you? Dreams of her life with you? Hopes that you will be proud of them too?


  12.  #12Sweetpea on June 16, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Rori, re: #8, what I also wondered is would it be advisable to tell him the poems/plan and let him figure it out?

    I should add, all I’ve been doing here is leaning back. I’m not soliciting any of this stuff from him. But I like it!

  13.  #13StarLight on June 16, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    Yea, Sweetpea; I feel so happy reading your post, I feel hopeful I will learn how to do this right, and soon it will be my turn ๐Ÿ™‚

    Katie: (hugs) to you; I feel your pain. I’d like to share something that a guy I was REALLY hung up on told me:

    people, especially men, feel AWFUL when women do things for them that they feel they do not deserve or have not earned! What an insight! I am one who remembers birthdays, tries to cheer people up when they are down, etc. – thinking I am just doing what comes naturally – being a caring, loving woman. But he made me see it makes men WITHDRAW feeling icky.

    This is the place to learn new ways of Being. I love it here!!

  14.  #14Bella on June 16, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    This is perfect timing for this post. In two weeks I will be attending an event and see my ex that I haven’t seen or talked to in months, and I have been a WRECK!
    Why do I keep playing over in my head how “I” should react to him and what he might say. . .I feel in my heart he will act very casual while I want to scream and hit and punch his lights out for being so careless with my feelings.
    When I read this, ” She isnโ€™t consumed with trying to blame him or with anger about what happened and what he did โ€“ sheโ€™s concerned with creating as good a life for herself” I felt a calmness come over me. . . .I don’t have to do anything that doesn’t feel good to me. . . . it’s not about me, I DESERVE someone who wants to treat me well.
    At the same time, I feel fearful to see him. I feel uncertain and unsure of myself. I feel like I should rehearse my greeting, but then I’d be right back to my old habits of putting on an act like everything is okay when it’s not.
    Oh, help please sirens!

  15.  #15StarLight on June 16, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    Orna, thank you & HUGS for the link; I signed up for it already!

  16.  #16mary on June 16, 2010 at 5:31 pm

    oh, get this! these are emails from Old Flame:

    Old Flame:

    have you ever tried skype?


    Yes, but with you I’d rather talk on the phone!
    No, I’d really rather talk in person

    Old Flame:

    OK I am with you note for note and number for number on the in person… And the problem with skype is?? (note for note – i’m a musician… number for number – he’s an accountant)


    well, i have no problem with skype!
    as a last resort…

    Old Flame:

    all right then it sounds like I will have to deal with this face to face…

  17.  #17Hope on June 16, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    Hello Rori, Sirens
    Im sorry for the misplacment of this question but its all i knew how to ask it.
    I love your insight and have used all Rori’s tools to end up in a relationship that I have enjoyed very much but has now become very difficult. I dated My man for a year and a half. From the very beginning I got a lot out of the relationship and he continued to offer more so I assume he was enjoying it just a much. I let him know right away that I was not looking for a BF and that marriage was a goal/value for me. He also stated that he was not looking for a GF but did not see himself getting married anytime soon. ( Iโ€™m mid 20โ€™s he just turned 30 ). He was hot so I slept with him after about a month. I continued to date other men for about 9 months. I knew he was seeing another women (I checked his phone, he said they were just friends) but the relationship was serving me so well I/we kept it going. I have never had to chase him and he carries the relationship well. I stopped dating when he had all my free time tied up and I was relaxed and happy. We began to make intelligent plans for our future. Well at about the year mark, he was spending most nights at my home and we were getting closer and closer. Marriage was on the table and he seemed excited about a solid 18 mont plan. I found that he was still talking to this women Friend from before and had in fact spent NYE with her. The text I read also indicated that he was telling her not to make plans for the two of them because he wont be around for that. Anyhow I was mad and told him to get all his stuff out of my house and to not come back anymore. (This is weeks after I expressed my discomfort with him keeping contact with his โ€œfriendโ€) He left but came back in about two weeks pledging his faithfulness and initiating the commitment conversation. He gave me a few reasons why this women was still in his life and how complicated it was. Blahโ€ฆ Blahโ€ฆ I let him know that he would need to sever his ties with her in order for me to feel comfortable with dating him only. We ended up getting a place together. I got laid off my job and I noticed there was still contact ( mostly her calling him ). I begin to unravel. My confidence went down the drain and I had too much time on my hands! I began making demands on him. Our communication broke down and our home was very tense. We had or biggest ugliest fight ever. He kept saying nothing was going on and that she wanted more but he was not intrested and why am I so insecure. What happens next is a confrontation with this women where she confirms that for the last 4 months he has tried to distance himself from her. They were friends with benefits and she thought it would turn into something more. Things changed with them in Jan. She did not require them to be together but still wanted him in her life so she did things for him like giving him money and using her job with the county to pull strings for his business. She told me that sex had stopped but he still saw her maybe once a week. She admitted to sending him naked pics the night before because she missed him and he had not returned her calls (this was the night of our big fight where he finally said he would not talk to this women any more. I knew then it was just out of frustration). She told me that in return he sent her pics of his body parts back, and agreed to take her to the airport the next night. I was outrage by his conduct although I could see a clear difference in our relationship that theirs. That day he told her he could not see her anymore and that he was wrong for letting this get out of hand and that he loved me and wanted to be with me. Blahโ€ฆ I kicked him out of our place two days later in a nasty non-siren fashion. This was a brake up. He felt that I gave up on him and kicked him out because he made a stupid mistake and that he had not touched that woman since he solidified our relationship. He said that he would not look back
    He came back a few days later and stayed with me for 4 nights, no sex. He was frustrated with the rejection and asked me what I wanted from him I gave him a โ€œno friends w/ benefits good relationship commitmentโ€ speech. He said โ€œokโ€ and left. For the next 2 weeks I did not contact him. He txt me a few times and called twice. I know he was dating during this time, and that he tried to have sex with another women. I was taking care of myself in other ways. Now a bit over a month later he is back he stays with me every night for 3 weeks we go on fantastic dates back to back and are enjoying each other physically and emotionally again. I am unsure what to do. I can forgive him but what is that saying about giving him permission? Can I transform this? I told him that I would not continue with him unless he could commit in a real way and he agreed but I feel as if I put myself all to willingly in the GF trap because the relationship is so wounded marriage is not on the table the way it once was. I still have resentment that I am trying to work out with him and myself. He says that he still wants a future with me. He also said that is I had done the something he would leave even if his heart wanted to stay. What does that mean I donโ€™t know if I can trust him so I need some guidance on how to trust myself through this. I am not in denial about what happened and I do not want to be mistreated anymore. Is there hope for this kind of re commitment to work? I KNOW he loves me deeply but am unsure if he is capable of the commitment he professed. I believe he also feels bad for hurting me and thinks that it will never be the same. Can we heal this, is it worth it? Am I wasting my time? Do you think the thought of loosing me made him act right or is it all an ACT to keep me around?? In retrospect the first thing that comes to mind isโ€ฆ DONโ€™T EVER STOP DATING NO MATER HOW FAB HE IS!!!!

  18.  #18mary on June 16, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    oh, i’d so like to write, “or cheek to cheek,” but i’m not going to!

  19.  #19mary on June 16, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    anything witty out there that i can reply back? i’m stumped…

  20.  #20Brenda on June 16, 2010 at 5:37 pm


    You said, “You just keep playing on Siren island until the man shows up with a plan.”

    Beautiful! I love what you wrote about that show! So here I am, playing on Siren Island.

    I am right where I should be, but I feel weary, tense, craving, sad, and lonely. I feel like crashing.

  21.  #21Daria on June 16, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    ohmygosh Sweetpea how amazing!!

  22.  #22Daria on June 16, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    I love how you said… If i tell you that i want to keep casually dating until i have a ring on my finger… what woudl you think?

    ohh awesome

  23.  #23Daria on June 16, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    Jennifer – ouch… i feel a lil pulled back reading that mail… i feel concerned and kinda cringing… it feels very blaming

    i would condense all that to

    I still feel very angry at you.

  24.  #24StarLight on June 16, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    Orna; your advice please, if you are on:

    You said in a previous post it was OK to call a man or email first IF you had a REASON…I am in a new dating rotation with a man (one date) & I had a message on my phone that he couldn’t get through … we had a date last night … but I didn’t know if it was from yesterday or today so I left him a message back saying if it was from yesterday, I was sorry to miss his call, and if it was today; thank you I felt so lovely being with him yesterday and feel happy about seeing him tomorrow … but he didn’t return my message or text me today … is that leaning forward? thanks & HUGS for all your advice ๐Ÿ™‚

  25.  #25Daria on June 16, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    mary – i just realized today or yesterday how often i try to be witty — and then in my mind rori’s words about how men don’t fall in love with us for being witty

    and i dont have to try to be clever, or anything

    i just have to open heart and share what im really feeling – feels scary when witty feels so much easier

  26.  #26mary on June 16, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    oh, i like that daria!

    maybe i’ll just say, “hey, that would be great,” or something.

  27.  #27mary on June 16, 2010 at 6:01 pm

    sweet pea, “If i tell you that i want to keep casually dating until i have a ring on my fingerโ€ฆ what woudl you think?”, and he asked if it goes both ways, and you said, “NO.”


    why did you say no?

    how could it not go both ways?

  28.  #28mary on June 16, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    feeling dense here…

  29.  #29mary on June 16, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    but really trying…

  30.  #30mary on June 16, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    cuz i’m in this situation all the time. it’s very difficult.

  31.  #31Sweetpea on June 16, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    Daria – thanks! My challenge now is staying unattached to the outcome!

    Mary – I don’t know why no. It’s been up for discussion the last couple of nights & agreed upon that Rori says no, but none of us have found or can remember why. And I haven’t really thought it out b/c I didn’t expect this to happen so fast. So I’m one of those “fly by the seat of their pants” girls you talk about on the other thread. AND… He just called wanting to take me & my dog for a walk in the park & she really needs it so I agreed. So now I’m really flying by the seat of my pants!! (Shrug). Maybe I’ll just tell him cuz I want my cake and eat it too & maybe some ice cream! (Lol – Simply Shannon style)!

    I’ll let you know how it goes. I’m not even sure hwow I’m going to explain the CDing yet, but I at least have a couple of ideas on that front.

  32.  #32jennifer on June 16, 2010 at 6:14 pm

    Daria……… doesn’t matter much. Now he is saying he didnt’ treat me well because he felt that he couldn’t afford to get me the things I wanted. IT’s the same shit. He’s obsessed with the idea that I wanted money from him. I was financially motivated. It’s all bull shit.
    He says I left him at a bad time in his life. Like it was my responsibility to take care of him instead of me.
    If I condensed everything I feel and think down to I still feel mad at you..that’s all I would say to him.
    This is totally retarded.
    I am having a hard time with the not blaming thing. This is…my issue is was and always was….his behaviour. How do I not “blame” him when his behaviour is the issue?
    All I would end up saying is “I feel angry” “I feel invisible” “I feel unheard”
    He ignores all that feeling message business and goes on about how I left him at a bad time for him and all I wanted was money anway…at least that’s the way he saw it anyway.
    Whatever I feel annoyed and bored.
    This is stupid.
    I feel like an addict.
    I wonder if he’s “toxic”

  33.  #33Buttery on June 16, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    Hi , I ‘ve just downloaded the e-book and have been reading lots of blog posts. Great stuff, I will try to start using the tools in my dating relationships.

    I’m dating a guy who likes to say or text “i’m thinking of you”.
    What is a good feeling message to respond to his statement?

    something like “it feels food to hear you say that”

    or should i just say, “i’m thinking of you too?”

  34.  #34Simply Shannon on June 16, 2010 at 6:37 pm

    I love this post!

    If you want to cut through all that noise, then show me a plan. Poetry is easy. Itโ€™s the parent-teacher conferences that are hard. I have to go now.

    This is even better than “shoulda put a ring on it”. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Yes, show me a plan. What are you (Man) bringing to the table? I’m gonna need a Powerpoint presentation with some bullets on it or something. Haha! I love it! This feels powerful!

  35.  #35Simply Shannon on June 16, 2010 at 6:46 pm

    Jennifer, I feel confused and surprised to hear you contacted him.

    I believe you are lovely. I love your quirky, intellectual girl personna mixed with your loud and boisterous “worked me like a summer job” voice. I don’t want any of my Sirens to be treated badly. I want so much for all of to let go of the men in our life who just aren’t cutting it.

    And so you know, I have been thinking about A so much today it’s not even funny. This is the guy who cheated on me last summer. He is still on my horse. I actually deleted my last FB email today from him so that I can no longer see his profile (it’s hidden from general search). I feel embarrassed admitting that. I made myself do it because it felt right to truly and forever let him go. I wouldn’t want the “old” him anyway. I only want the fun times we had together. At least that’s what I’m telling myself…

    Gosh, I feel sad. I miss him. I miss the fun we had.

    This Man Fast sucks. I don’t like being alone. Dangit.

    God please help me. ๐Ÿ™

  36.  #36StarLight on June 16, 2010 at 7:14 pm


    ((HUGS)) I feel awed by your bravery even tho you’re in pain …

  37.  #37StarLight on June 16, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    Daria #23: WOW! I feel awesome, I feel strong, I feel diva-like … I don’t have to be witty I just have to be me … whoa! I feel free

  38.  #38Lucy on June 16, 2010 at 8:18 pm

    Sweetpea, I feel curious — what book are you both reading? I feel intrigued that you both happen to be reading the same book.

  39.  #39Lucy on June 16, 2010 at 8:23 pm

    I spotted an intriguing loveatfirstsight man on pof today. My heart actually started racing and my breath quickened! He lives an hour and a half away, so he’s not terribly long distance. Only problem is, he doesn’t know I exist. So, until he does, I am trying not to think about him!

  40.  #40mary on June 16, 2010 at 9:01 pm


    Why is it okay for us to CD and not okay for the guys?

    Thank you!


  41.  #41Daria on June 16, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    mary – this was addressed by rori but i cant find the post!! could it have been in a comment?

    but basically it was a weeklong discussion at one point

    the gist of it was that

    we are looking to get married… and we’re looking from the circle of men who are super sure they want US

    the men who want to date multiple women, after a reasonable time, are not the men who are SURE they want US and only us

    i remember sayign something about

    Being the princess in the castle, and there are a bunch of suitors trying to woo us

    they would not be doing well wooing if they are busy wooing a different princess half the time

    they’re trying to get US. that’s why

  42.  #42Daria on June 16, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    Shannon – aslo had a great grasp of it on the last post or the one before that

  43.  #43mary on June 16, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    mmmmmm… Shannon, do you remember?

    I’ve had guys ask me that – does it go both ways? And I told them yes!

    Uh oh…!!!


    they’re still around.

  44.  #44kismet on June 16, 2010 at 9:44 pm

    After our last day together, I no longer feel sad or want to cry. It just doesn’t faze me anymore. I can just go on about life. He’ll come around if he wants.

    Yes must have been my fault partially, and his fault partially but I’m not out to blame. We told my parents about my situation and had plans to marry, but I brought up the trigger of our fight. I didn’t think it would be a big deal, thought it was something we can get over once discussed but he decided to break up. The next day,I asked for a last. I’m not sure if he told me he loves me and talked as if we’re together and going to be together just because I wanted one last day, and he wanted to act like things were the same, or if it was because he got over our fight and in some ways want us together again. I didn’t bring it up. He told me he loves me today but then doesn’t reply later when I text him. I don’t know where we’re going, but I feel pretty much like Alicia.

  45.  #45Daria on June 16, 2010 at 9:46 pm

    hmm im feelin a lil weird . ok. i feel a lil mad. I feel a lil gloaty.

    I don’t like explaining something and then feeling like my words were unheard

    I feel mad. I feel like discounted, like someone has something against me and thus chooses to not hear me, thinks im stupid or dont know what im talking about.

    i feel mad

    i dont want to tolerate being ignored


    I feel dissed

  46.  #46Elayne on June 16, 2010 at 9:50 pm

    This is good, I’m starting to get it now! I’ve been hit on by some guy on Twitter who keeps asking me for my phone number. I write a blog and my number is all over the internet. I told him that if he wanted it that bad, he could find it on the internet and just call me like everyone else does, but he can’t seem to run a Google search to find me. Amazing.

    I am finding that now that I’ve set a boundary with one man that I’m “dating,” it’s getting much easier to say no to them in all areas of my life! Amazing.

  47.  #47kismet on June 16, 2010 at 9:53 pm

    I don’t know who you’re talking about but I feel you!
    I hate it when he doesn’t answer me, even though I know he’s probably texting other girls. If he loves me he would make me top priority, especially since he claims he wants to marry me, sees himself with me and wants to be with me forever…

  48.  #48Daria on June 16, 2010 at 10:06 pm

    Kismet — ouch that would feel awful from a man i am close with… though I wouldn’t want to text him first, no way… I’ve been practicing Rori’s tools of leaning back and letting men come to me for awhile now, I’m pretty used to it (tho sometimes i still call guys but usually the results of that are bleh)

    Leaning Back… it works! They get a lot more attracted… its like they remember that they like me once im not going to them or contacting them

    i felt kinda bad that you asked him for one last day. ICK i would feel bad ! like im begging him! But at least he was nice on the date.

    I feel curious to see what happens… my guess is that in your situation leaning back would totally bring him back

  49.  #49Daria on June 16, 2010 at 10:06 pm

    YAY ELAYNE! awesome!

  50.  #50Daria on June 16, 2010 at 10:08 pm

    I called a man i used to date – my ex – who likes me but doesn’t step up all the way – tho he made a step

    and asked him to take a shower at his place – cuz i didnt want to go home…
    guess what he said no, he was out and busy


    now he wants to me to call him if i want to go out and kick it

    i’ve told him a hundred times i dont want to kick it


  51.  #51mary on June 16, 2010 at 10:20 pm

    so i went out to dinner with Bridge Man. and we started talking about what it was like to be on Plenty of Fish. and he said that he’d worked out that the best way was to just “be friends” with all the women he was seeing, and that if there was any chemistry, things would work that way.

    sounded plausible.

    but i said, “well, I kinda wanted it to be dating. dating was more romantic for me.”

    and he said he’d do it his way and i could do it my way.

    so the check came.

    guess what? i reached for my purse. i got out my wallet. i was really and truly intending to pay. 2nd date.

    and he said, “no! absolutely not! put your purse away. this is mine”

    (she’s with ME.)

    i said, “well, hey! i thought you were viewing me as a friend!” and he said, “i am.” and i said, “if i had a boyfriend, and you had a girlfriend, and we were really ‘just friends,’ would you still pay for mine?”

    and he said, “absolutely.”


  52.  #52kismet on June 16, 2010 at 10:20 pm

    I know, I knew it might sound pathetic. But when we argued it was through texting and we didn’t get to break up properly in person. He is the father of my baby so I wanted to see him one last time if he is serious about breaking up.

    Actually, when I texted him during our fight that I guess this is the way it is, that I’m giving him this song we love which is about breaking up and letting go of the one you love, wishing them the best…he replied 15 minutes later telling me: “Well you want to talk be at my place”

    I wasn’t sure if he wanted us to talk or if he was saying that if I want to talk about our situation, then I can meet him. So I went since I needed to return his clothes and settle things, maybe try to work it out but that wasn’t the purpose. We walked around and I asked if he wanted to try, if he wants custody of the baby etc etc. he was pretty much Mr. I-Don’t Care-We’re-Over-I’m happy-Its-a-Nice-Day-Out which irked me. After awhile I figured it was pointless. I thought he had a date with some girl like he said, but he didn’t take me home yet and it was past the time he needed to go. We walked to the gas station, I didn’t talk at all. He asked me why I have an attitude and I asked him why he’s so happy. We walked past a house that looked like my old house and I told him. Then the mood became lighter and we chatted about the city/ghetto.

    We went in his room and I still kept my distance, he did too. he took up the space on his bed, while I was sitting on the corner taking up little. His feet touched mine. Then he stretched out more, telling me not to take up so much space. By this time I knew he was playing around but I didn’t feel like it. he kept getting me to move so I got off and sat on the stool. He threw me a pillow, then said he wants it, then tells me to go over to him and says I can be on the bed. I get on the bed and keep my distance. after awhile of silence he put on a r&b love song on his phone and put it next to me, it was about how the guy fell in love with the girl the first day and that he’s sorry he didn’t know better. I didn’t say anything so when it was over he turned it off and stayed close to me then cuddled. I didn’t know what he wanted, he claimed he just wanted my hair. Said couldn’t we cuddle one last time? I let him hug me but when things got sexual I told him we can’t do that since we’re not together. That he can do that with other girls. he said ok and texted people, got ready to go somewhere and take me home.

    he was in his car when I came out of the bathroom and that’s when I texted him about one last day together and he came back. He was all happy and told me he loved me. I couldn’t tell if he thought that I would be up for sex and was happy, or if he was happy that I was there. He told me he loved me. Throughout the time, he told me he loves me several time, and then we just start talking as if we’re together. Talking about our baby and stuff.

  53.  #53kismet on June 16, 2010 at 10:22 pm

    Also, I felt that my want was true to myself and when I asked it was not shameful bc I wasn’t ashamed to ask. But now I’m leaning back and its easy bc for some reason the hurt is gone.

  54.  #54mary on June 16, 2010 at 10:30 pm


    my take on all that is that he’s feeling safe because he thinks you’re breaking up, and he can tell you how he really feels and not worry about expectations on your part, because he thinks the expectations are already gone.

    my heart feels sick about this.

    but i know you’re young. and i’ve seen a lot! and attitude is soooooooo everything! it seems like in even this very difficult situation, you have a good attitude and healthy self esteem.

    anyone at all would be exhausted and upset in your situation.

    seeing the big picture, and the long run, and all the women who’ve done it alone, i feel very positive about you!

    and he’s the father.

    who knows how it will all play out? no one. because it’s in the little, tiny decisions that are made every day… we’re creating what will happen with those decisions…

    so all you have to do is do the next best thing in front of you!

    here’s to a healthy baby!

    (and i’m about to have a little grand baby! yay!)

  55.  #55mary on June 16, 2010 at 10:31 pm

    i mean you’re creating what will happen…

  56.  #56Daria on June 16, 2010 at 10:37 pm

    Mary – ok so i got two messages there: one is that not all men in the pacific northwest are effeminate about paying for dates

    and 2 that you wanted to get money out and pay for dates which i feel ciky blah terrible reading about…
    blah blah ick ick… i feel disappointed… it would have been a great opportunity to feel the awkward feelings and embrace them

    im feeling disappointed that i didnt state my feelings clearly in the taco incident. I COULD HAVE gotten a cab home. it would have been 10 bucks. I could have went inside a store to get away from the cold. i could have felt amazed and adventurous at taking care of myself


    instead now i feel turned off to this guy i like before and i feel insecure around him

    he called me today and told me to call him tomorrow and i said oh wait i dont like to call guys… he told me wow youre a lil strange huh..


    i feel blah

    i dont want to take it personaly

    my period didnt come on time so im feeling pmsy for a week now or what not, i am craving stuff

    it would feel great to get my period and release this kundalini energy back into the water/earth

  57.  #57kismet on June 16, 2010 at 10:43 pm

    Mary, thanks! Your response makes me happy =)

    I do feel a happy flickering hope inside, that things will turn out fine. Call it confidence? God, I’ve just been through like, everything no one wants to go through, so I must be a super tough woman who still comes out strong in the end. Idk, I’ve already cried and from that time I went to settle things, I just got too tired to cry or care. When he cuddled me the second time when I told him I wanted one last day, he tried to comfort me by saying I can cry and joking that I don’t have to hide it from him. But there were no tears on my face and my face was far from crying, more like “I’m not EVEN crying, why would I be?” What we fought over was stupid and small and he tried to put the blame on me.

    Though he still said he loves me today, like Alicia, I need to see a plan! Our families were supposed to talk about the wedding this weekend, I don’t have the heart to tell my parents that he won’t be there. I dont know if he will and if he will notify his parents anymore. And if he wants it to work, then he’ll have to do it before this weekend. I wonder if I should ask him about it, or let him tell me what he wants about the wedding and either me or him will tell my parents if he doesn’t want it anymore.

  58.  #58kismet on June 16, 2010 at 10:44 pm

    So is what Bridge Man said about paying for you even if you guys are just friends a good thing or bad thing? I’m confused.

  59.  #59Sweetpea on June 16, 2010 at 11:03 pm

    Lucy – re: 23 – the book is The Art of War by Sun Tzu. Very good book for business, difficult relationships – anything that might require strategizing. It was written by a chinese warrior. It’s very deep & philosophical.

  60.  #60Siena on June 16, 2010 at 11:18 pm

    Sweetpea, I don’t want to be debbie downer, but something feels weird to me about the way your guy is acting.. The book title was the kicker for me. The guys I’ve known who have been players have ALL named that book as somthing they’re currently reading or one of their favorites. It’s weird, I know, but hearing that set off my bs meter.

    Please don’t take this the wrong way… It’s just one of those things I’ve noticed as a pattern in my dating life.

  61.  #61Siena on June 16, 2010 at 11:21 pm

    …and I just got home from a date with someone who thinks he’s a total playa, and I’m feeling very distrustful! He’s perhaps the worst kisser west of the Mississippi, and I feel pissed that I have to honestly tell him why I won’t be seeing him again. I feel angry that I even have to deal with these losers at all. Grrr (so I’m saying Sweetpea that my perspective might be warped)

  62.  #62Daria on June 16, 2010 at 11:33 pm

    Sweetpea and Siena – when I heard the title of the book, i was like OH ALLL guys read that book hehehe

    no wonder he was reading it (i havent noticed a player correlation)

    its just a man favorite in my book

  63.  #63Sweetpea on June 16, 2010 at 11:54 pm

    Siena & Daria – I’ve actually only know a couple of guys who’ve read that book. They were definitely not players, but I’ll take it under advisement.

    I’ve also always had excellent player radar – God I hope it’s not failing me now, in my experience all the players read Stephen King or not at all! Lol. But I’m keeping my eyes wide open. Players don’t usually invest this much time & effort. I guess I’ll know soon enough. He sure does have a lot of time to spend w/ me if that’s the case!

    Siena – sorry you had a bad date! So you’re actually going to tell him you can’t see him anymore cuz he’s the worst kisser west of the Mississippi?

  64.  #64mary on June 17, 2010 at 12:27 am


    so you were getting married to him? or was that another wedding that you guys were both going to? (pardon me for not knowing!)

    what i really like about what you said was that what you fought about was stupid and small, and that he tried to put the blame on you.

    and you didn’t let him! how wonderful for you! i remember that was a big step for me in my first marriage: not taking blame! that’s really great.

    maybe he’ll come around.

    maybe not!

    you’re gonna have a sweet little baby, regardless! what a lot to look forward to! just wait; you’ll see.

  65.  #65mary on June 17, 2010 at 12:32 am

    yes, well…

    who pays can be a bit deal, or not a big deal, depending on who you’re with.

    regardless of how you handle it.

    my point.

  66.  #66Daria on June 17, 2010 at 12:39 am

    ohh…im looking at how i can get my period …

    and remembering the first time i got my period.

    i didn’t know what it was

    it was black

    i somehow didnt really pay it much attention

    i was at camp

    math camp

    there was this boy i liked stephen

    and i always fought with him because thats what i liked

    and one time i said i was going to slap him over the head

    and i did

    i felt free and open and fun and delighted

    and then he yelled at me!

    he said i was a bitch and to leave him alone

    i felt shocked… i felt betrayed… he had played with me

    i felt go to numb to not feel the horribleness

    actually this somewhat reminds me of guywhohadababy

    and the way i was free and open kinda reminds me of brenda

    and i feel kinda intense remembering that

    then i left

    and i felt


    we did cuddle up the last day and he wrote some stuff on my yearbook… but i think i was the one who initiated… and he mostly wrote stuff like hey bitch… hope you have a fun year

    me and him had been best camp friends slash tease each other

    i think he liked a girl called cindy who was pretty mature and sophisticated


    sounds like a guywhohadababy

    sounds like the boy when i was 5

    sounds like im repeating and repeating

    i felt betrayed

    i felt shocked

    i didnt know he didnt like it!

    ohh i feel terrible

    i feel sigh

    i feel afraid to trust myself to feel free and express

    i feel sad thinking that

    i feel sad

  67.  #67Daria on June 17, 2010 at 12:41 am

    i didnt pay attention to myself or my period. i didnt know i was having a period… didnt look much like blood.

    didnt have one again for years

    i feel sad weird behind the time again i feel icky saying that


    i feel bloated

    i feel unsatisfied

    i feel not hydrated
    i feel sleepy

  68.  #68Daria on June 17, 2010 at 12:42 am


    i INTEND to heal this now

    no that is too scary no you cant do it now no that is too big a task for you to do right now not safe to intend that rght now its not gonna happen now

    thank u

  69.  #69Softy on June 17, 2010 at 12:44 am

    Bravo to Alicia.. Girl Power !
    Anyone watched “The Women” movie? I love it so much.. its an amazing life transformation for Mary Haines play by Meg Ryan

  70.  #70Ann on June 17, 2010 at 1:37 am

    Mary I used to think it wasn’t fair for women to CD but men couldn’t. Then one day “I got” why Rori says if a man wants to CD let him go. Because men are wired different than women. If a man really wants one particular woman he will step up to the plate and do everything he can to win her heart. He won’t be wanting to CD, he’ll be showing his lady he’s trustworthy, he’s caring, loving, protective etc…But no man man gets exclusivity until there is a ring and wedding plans in the works if getting married is what the WOMAN wants. HTH

  71.  #71mary on June 17, 2010 at 2:19 am

    in my very brief experience dating these last few months, combined with what happened last fall, it does seem true that men get hooked into a woman and want exclusivity.

    not giving them that is the problem.

    it makes them crazy. and then, don’t they leave? i’m not there in my story yet. i’m just trusting Rori.

    if this doesn’t work, i’ll just start over again.

    i’m only about two or three dates into it with each guy. it’s not soon enough for exclusivity, even if i were to give it, and my schedule hasn’t allowed for more dates, closer together. i thought that would be the hard part – putting them off. the hard part has been finding time to schedule them in. i have other things to do, too!

    i feel sad when a guy says he’s not dating anyone but me. after two dates??? really!!! i feel suspicious.

    i feel pompous and show-off and selfish to be wanting to spend time with more than one guy, when that guy wants to spend time with only me.

    maybe because man in the woods called me selfish?

    but i do want to experience new things, new and different men, new ways of doing things and new kisses!

    because i want to make a good decision this time.

    two bad marriages.


    that is two too many!

    next one has to be the charm. i want to ride into the sunset with someone. i’ve ridden on roller coasters for so long… i’ve been up at night for too long.

    i want to have a more normal life.

    with not as much energy going into men.

    circular dating is actually helping. i mean, there’s no time to obsess about one.

    oh yeah. that’s right. Island Man.

    i’m thinking about him a little bit right now. i feel some sadness tonight about him. i don’t know what happened and why he dropped me. just like THAT.

    maybe *#% # * & ^^

    or maybe $ * ^&&& %

    or maybe $ & *O{{{@


    who even knows? i’ll bet Island Man couldn’t tell us. maybe because i paid for just myself last time. oh! why did i do that? i still feel embarrassed. i should have offered to pay for his, too. or i should have just let him pay?

    he’s an activist kinda guy. eats only organic. carpenter. very active mind. he did always offer to pay. but my feeling was that he was waiting… for me to offer. i know he was.

    i respect men. loved my dad. love my brothers. i don’t like to offend.

    would it have offended him to have offered to pay for his sandwich?

    yes, i’m hung up on that a bit.

    wishing for him tonight. wondering about him tonight.

    will i ever see him again?

    hope so.

    will i ever kiss him?

    hope so.

    yes, it looks to them like i’m a player girl.

    i’m not.

    i’m a siren.

  72.  #72mary on June 17, 2010 at 2:30 am

    i know i said this before, somewhere, but i read something about farrah fawcett that blew me away, and that i’ve thought about for years and years.

    she was standing on the lawn of her sorority house, with other girls there, and boys were lining up to ask for dates. farrah’s line was two blocks long.

    i’ve thought about that over and over and over.

    what would it be like to have so many guys to choose from? if i didn’t like something about one of them, fine! i’d just go to the next one. if one of them didn’t like me, fine! who’s next on the calendar?

    thanks to the Internet, dating clubs and other ways to get dates these days, i know i could have a calendar that was filled… i mean filled with dates!

    it has nothing to do with being beautiful.

    it’s just marketing. pure and simple.

    and thanks to Rori’s tools, i know what to do with those dates!

    good pictures. good write up. good attitude. BINGO.

    i must go the full monty and not offer to pay.

    okay, i’ll try that.


    oh, so thankful to be having this adventure!

  73.  #73Tina on June 17, 2010 at 2:34 am

    Mary, you didnt feel like paying for his sandwich simple. For me it’s difficult to pay for a mans sandwich, I wont unless it’s a guy like a family member, a younger cousin, nephew whatever, like I did tonight, my ‘buddy” drove me somewhere and I bought him a coffee, he asked and I felt like it. There is no possiblity of relationship with us, we just hang out together and sing, he tells me his problems , i tell him mine usually about dating. I do speak in feelings messages with him and he is pretty open with me.

  74.  #74mary on June 17, 2010 at 2:38 am

    yeah. i know.

    not wanting to offend men is not in the program.

    i’m not scared!

    i respect men.

    and more than that, there’s the Golden Rule: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

    where does basic kindness fit in?

    i mean, i know that man in the woods is not the one. do i tell him? i know the answer: no. let him get tired of my behaviour and call it off.

    i dare him to get tired of my behaviour.


    i wouldn’t want anyone to do that to me.

  75.  #75Tina on June 17, 2010 at 2:39 am

    I did finally email truckman back at his instruction, he said, he wanted to respect my space and to write him back when im feeling better about everything. I told him I still feel weird about the other night but if he could drop my keys off on his way to an event that would be ok. Im not ready to “talk” about what happened between us the other night, I felt terrified, he should me is “anger” what a night. I ended up sleeping upstairs in his house and told him not to come near me or I will leave. he said ok he was fine with that. He did say he wanted to apoligize for the way he behaved. I felt terrorized, he berated me for what seemed like hours on end. Ive been going through a whole bunch of feelings around it mostly anger, abandonment, sadness. my fear of abandonment pushed me to respond finally to his email. I feel like a loser.

  76.  #76mary on June 17, 2010 at 2:41 am


    hello tonight.

    what a nice buddy to have! i had a buddy a few years ago, and we went to the same pub once a week and talked about our dates, but he found someone and dropped me.

    that happens when guy friends find themselves a girlfriend.

  77.  #77Tina on June 17, 2010 at 2:42 am

    Mary, keep dating him ๐Ÿ™‚ when do you tell him, he doesnt fit for you? I dunno. Oh he drops off to the wayside, you cd other men yeah.

  78.  #78mary on June 17, 2010 at 2:42 am

    do you think you’ll keep seeing him, tina?

  79.  #79mary on June 17, 2010 at 2:43 am

    well, he’s having an operation on friday. i’m gonna help him and even stay at his house in the woods! which i never have. i’m just gonna sleep on the couch.
    make sure he’s okay. he has no family here.

    then go home to texas and take care of my family.

    then come back and go to work! yay! i can’t wait for work.

  80.  #80Tina on June 17, 2010 at 2:46 am

    Mary, my buddy tells me he likes women with huge i mean HUGE breasts lol, I said ew I feel violated as he was describing me the boobs he likes. I said does she have any other qualities you like, he said no , this one particular one is just a woman with huge breasts. We talked over coffee and he seems quite content with woman , I think he said size EE or something. he did say there was another woman he liked but she is to selfish lol yuuuh!

  81.  #81Tina on June 17, 2010 at 2:48 am

    mary, I will , I want this healed for myself. he is like my NV lol. I do this to myself , well I used to do it, um still do to some degree, but Rori says we hire these guys and I think I hired him to be my NV. I dunno, I’ll see how it all plays out.

  82.  #82mary on June 17, 2010 at 2:48 am

    wow! that’s amazing. i wonder why he likes that?

  83.  #83mary on June 17, 2010 at 2:50 am


    i hope there comes a time when you can have peace. i’m starting to feel it. since Island Man went poof. it’s crazy. and unexplainable. but i feel peace.

    it feels so wonderful!

  84.  #84mary on June 17, 2010 at 2:54 am

    good night, tina!

    i have to get up in about three hours! full day tomorrow. i’m gonna join a real estate firm tomorrow. i feel excited and proud! and energetic.

    and ready for a little tiny bit of sleep! hooray!

  85.  #85Tina on June 17, 2010 at 3:00 am

    Mary,I saw his ‘ugly side” and it is ugly. Yikes!
    I did go out tonight and circular date, I had to push myself to do it. I was out singing, I met a few men, I danced with a guy , but he was wearing a wedding band, that was not an option. We chatted for awhile, He asked me if I was a shy person, I said yes, I do feel shy, singing helps me. I did notice one thing about aonther man I talked to briefly, he was talking to me and three other women caught his attention and were talking to him, I noticed my hands were dry feeling and I took out my hand lotion and started moisturizing my fingers one by one, he caught what i was doing and sortof faded out of their convo and started watching me, he was staring at my hands and and asked for some lotion lol.

  86.  #86Tina on June 17, 2010 at 3:02 am

    I met a young boxer, he was a cutie ๐Ÿ™‚ I spoke in feeling messages all night with him, he seemed to dig me ๐Ÿ™‚ he really liked my singing too.

  87.  #87Tina on June 17, 2010 at 3:04 am

    I met a man at the coffee shop and he struck up a conversation with me , asking me if I was from there and did i know this person blah blah blah, I said yes, I smiled and left.

  88.  #88mary on June 17, 2010 at 3:55 am

    oh, i’d like to hear you sing! and i’d play the piano… and we could have a band… that sounds like a fun evening! i love that hand lotion action!

    i’m not glad that you saw truckman’s ugly side, but i am glad that you saw it for what it was.

    Tina, i feel happy that you can surround yourself with positive people and people who will not bring you down, but will see the light inside of you! they can be a mirror for your beautiful spirit.

    i hope that you find those people and spend time with them! they’re everywhere!

  89.  #89Alicia on June 17, 2010 at 4:07 am

    Good article… I already feel like I need to add more men to the mix… I took a little break but, less then a few dudes and I’m feeling encouraged to stay on track and stay open to cd.. and the “nicey” nice guys are growing on me.. ( I feel like they try too hard sometimes) or I’m just not all physically attracted and then I wonder will I end up settling? Surely, not.. that”s why I feel pushed to go back on line and start receiving again.. ๐Ÿ™‚

  90.  #90Alicia on June 17, 2010 at 4:12 am

    Maybe speed dating would be fun?! I might try it..

    I want speed recovery..

    All I know is it does feel good to be dating Bacherlorette style… my ex emailed me.. and I just let him know that circular dating was feeling pretty cool.. and it’s fun to have options..

    (I just have to hug my guilt every now and then and give it a little kiss on the head and say… this is good for u and for them hahaha)

  91.  #91Jeannette on June 17, 2010 at 4:42 am

    Does anyone have any advice on dating ‘shy’ men? I have started seeing an old boyfriend from school in my circular dating, and he is just as shy as ever. He needs to contact me more and let me know how much he really cares I am back in his life or he won’t stay in the picture. I am drawn to shy men, I am not a shy woman. They are often drawn to me too. Wonder why….

  92.  #92Jennifer on June 17, 2010 at 5:05 am

    Hey SS…thanks.
    I feel so frustrated.
    This IS about me. It should be about me. Its about my feelings and my thoughts and what I want and what I dont’ want.
    I dont’ want to hear he’s alone there, I don’t want to hear that he doesnt’ have a motorcycle yet.
    I want to talk a bout MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEME!!!!!
    I don’t want to be punished for wanting it to be about me.
    This sucks.
    I feel angry.

  93.  #93Triza on June 17, 2010 at 5:39 am

    ….if youโ€™re a woman who thinks badly of herself โ€“ youโ€™ll love him more for hurting you. If you think highly of yourself, youโ€™ll think less of him for treating you badly โ€“ or even just marginally…..
    You know it finally dawned on me what this really means.Not interlectually because i have been reading posts and comments here for a long time now but i feel a deeper understanding of what it really means to love myself…Its what every date good or bad has been about…more chances for me to love and accept myself.
    Looking at this more deeply leads me to really question how i feel about myself.
    This has opened so much for me and it feels more each day that feeling good about myself is what really lacked.I kept looking out there thinking that the world was wrong in some way and yet i really didn’t know this person that was looking out there.Who is she,what does she want,how does she feel…..
    I feel grateful for this clarity i feel grateful for life and love and all the new things happening for me.It does feel good to venture into this path of self discovery.Hugs!

  94.  #94Triza on June 17, 2010 at 5:53 am

    One consistent feeling i had when dating a man who was not treating me well was feeling bad about nearly everything i did.The situations were just never right.I carried around this unconscious guilt around always feeling bad about myself.I felt so bad about myself and its no wonder i tolerated bad behaviour.That supported how i felt about myself.
    Just knowing this gives me strength to take the baby steps into loving and accepting myself unconditionally.Knowing that i am special loved and adored no matter what feels me with loving acceptance for whatever is happening right now.What more would i need?

  95.  #95DocK on June 17, 2010 at 6:11 am

    @ Gina
    For some reason feeling compelled to comment on the George Strait video – maybe because music is so powerful to me.

    One of the reasons some people dislike videos so much is because it can really change the way you interpret a song. That song, “The Chair” I have always found to be quite beautiful and didn’t think it had anything to do with the man singing being a player but just trying to find the right way to approach a woman he wants to meet. Seeing the video, of course, changed that and I am surprised by it. Even more so considering that George Strait and his wife have been married for around 35 years. Silly video.

  96.  #96Kiki on June 17, 2010 at 6:18 am

    What if no one ever shows up? Is there a way to simply be OK with that?

  97.  #97Simply Shannon on June 17, 2010 at 6:32 am

    Circular dating basic training…

    When I’m dating lots of guys, it feels good. I feel good having options and not waiting around or wondering what any particular guy is doing or thinking. I want to be married. I don’t want to be a girlfriend.

    If I hear a guy I’m seeing is seeing someone else, I feel bad. I don’t want to wonder if he likes me. I don’t want to think about what he’s doing.

    I don’t want to explain why I can and a man can’t. That would be “explaining” and “convincing”. Not my business.

    I want to have my cake and eat it too.

    It’s not about feeling fair. It’s about how *I* feel. I honestly don’t want anyone else in my rotation to be dating anyone else. No. I want them all dating just me! And that sort of feels uncomfortable too because now I feel responsible to give them each my time. Interesting.

  98.  #98Simply Shannon on June 17, 2010 at 7:31 am

    Here’s that post Rori did. I don’t know that I feel the answers from this post though…

    Darn it. I waffle on understanding this. I keep wanting to think about his side and how it must feel for him.

    Blech. Doesn’t matter what he’s thinking. HE thinks different than me. I can’t worry about him.

    Being wrapped up in a relationship without KNOWING it’s moving towards marriage feels horrible. I know this. I know this. I know this.

    Don’t worry about him. If he doesn’t like it, he’ll come get me.

    The key here is not to get into explaining mode when a guy talks about it. I need to remember to get curious about what HE’s thinking. What does being exclusive mean to him? What does he want in a relationship? Will he care for my feelings around this? That it makes me feel safe to date others. That it has nothing to do with what I want with him.

    Argh. I still want to explain.

    It feels bad when a guy is dating others.

    It feels bad when I am dating one man and he’s not stepping up in a 100% way that doesn’t leave me feeling doubtful.

    It feels bad to not know he’s 100%.

    How would I know if he’s 100%?

    If I have a ring on my finger and a wedding date set.

    therefore I can conclude… it feels bad to be with one man if I don’t have a ring on my finger and a wedding date set.

    Phew. Okay, back on track.

  99.  #99Simply Shannon on June 17, 2010 at 7:40 am

  100.  #100Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 7:51 am


    Please take 5 minutes to read this. It may save your life or a loved one’s life.

    I thought these were really good ideas for safety in this sometimes dark world. Another idea not listed here is to take your car keys to bed with you so that if you hear someone downstairs or outside, if you hit the button your car alarm will sound and possibly scare off any unwanted โ€œvisitorsโ€. I thought that was a great idea too. ( of course that doesnโ€™t help those of us whose cars are too old to have the key alarms!) Anyway, God Bless You and keep you in His care!


    Because of recent abductions:

    In daylight hours, refresh yourself

    Of these things to do

    In an emergency situation….

    This is for you,

    And for you to share

    With everyone you know!

    After reading these 9 crucial tips,

    Forward them to someone you care about.

    It never hurts to be careful

    In this crazy world we live in.

    1. Tip from Tae Kwon Do :

    The elbow is the strongest point

    On your body.

    If you are close enough to use it, do!

    2.. Learned this from a tourist guide.

    If a robber asks for your wallet and/or purse,


    Toss it away from you…

    Chances are that he is more interested

    In your wallet and/or purse than you,

    And he will go for the wallet/purse.


    3. If you are ever thrown into the trunk of a car,

    Kick out the back tail lights and stick your arm out the hole

    And start waving like crazy..

    The driver won’t see you, but everybody else will.

    This has saved lives.

    4. Women have a tendency to get into their cars

    After shopping, eating, working, etc., and just sit

    (doing their checkbook, or making a list, etc.


    The predator will be watching you, and this

    Is the perfect opportunity for him to get in

    On the passenger side, put a gun to your head,

    And tell you where to go.



    If someone

    Is in the car

    With a gun

    To your head




    Instead gun the engine

    And speed into anything, wrecking the car.

    Your Air Bag will save you.

    If the person is in the back seat

    They will get the worst of it .

    As soon as the car crashes

    Bail out and run.

    It is better than having them find your body

    In a remote location.

    5. A few notes about getting

    Into your car in a parking lot,

    Or parking garage:

    A..) Be aware:

    Look around you,

    Look into your car,

    At the passenger side floor ,

    And in the back seat

    B.) If you are parked next to a big van,

    Enter your car from the passenger door.

    Most serial killers attack their victims

    By pulling them into their vans while the women

    Are attempting to get into their cars.

    C.) Look at the car

    Parked on the driver’s side of your vehicle,

    And the passenger side… If a male is sitting alone

    In the seat nearest your car, you may want to walk back

    Into the mall, or work, and get a

    Guard/policeman to walk you back out.

    IT IS ALWAYS BETTER TO BE SAFE THAN SORRY. (And better paranoid than dead.)

    6. ALWAYS take the elevator

    Instead of the stairs.

    Stairwells are horrible places to be alone

    And the perfect crime spot.

    This is especially true at NIGHT!)

    7. If the predator has a gun

    And you are not under his control,


    The predator will only hit you (a running target)

    4 in 100 times; and even then,

    It most likely WILL NOT be a vital organ.

    RUN, Preferably in a zig -zag pattern!

    8. As women, we are always trying

    To be sympathetic:


    It may get you raped, or killed.

    Ted Bundy, the serial killer, was a good-looking,

    Well educated man, who ALWAYS played

    On the sympathies of unsuspecting women.

    He walked with a cane, or a limp, and often

    Asked ‘for help’ into his vehicle or with his vehicle,

    Which is when he abducted
    His next victim.

    9. Another Safety Point:

    Someone just told me that her friend heard

    A crying baby on her porch the night before last,

    And she called the police because it was late

    And she thought it was weird.. The police told her

    ‘Whatever you do, DO NOT

    Open the door..’

    The lady then said that it sounded like the baby

    had crawled near a window, and she was worried

    that it would crawl to the street and get run over.

    The policeman said, ‘We already have a unit on the way,

    whatever you do, DO NOT open the door.’

    He told her that they think a serial killer

    has a baby’s cry recorded and uses it to coax

    women out of their homes thinking that someone

    dropped off a baby. He said they have not verified it,

    but have had several calls by women saying that

    they hear baby’s cries outside their doors

    when they’re home alone at night..

    10. Water scam!

    If you wake up in the middle
    of the night to hear all your taps outside running or what you think is a
    burst pipe, DO NOT GO OUT TO INVESTIGATE! These people turn on all your
    outside taps full ball so that you will go out to investigate and
    then attack.

    Stay alert, keep safe, and look out for your neighbors!

    Please pass this on

    This e-mail should probably be taken seriously because

    the Crying Baby Theory was mentioned on

    America ‘s Most Wanted when they profiled

    the serial killer in Louisiana

    I’d like you to forward this to all the women you know.

    It may save a life. A candle is not dimmed by lighting another candle..

    I was going to send this to the ‘ladies’ only,

    but guys, if you love your mothers, wives, sisters, daughters, etc..,

    you may want to pass it onto them, as well.

    Send this to any woman you know that may need

    to be reminded that the world we live in has a lot of ‘crazies’ in it

    and it’s better to be safe than sorry..

  101.  #101Tallgirl10 on June 17, 2010 at 7:59 am

    Hey everyone, I have take a few days to calm myself and get on board with a few things of my own.

    So here is the update. I am going to go back to my councelor to work on my self esteem and why only in my dating life I beat myself up so much and go to such a negative place.

    Multidating – I have been asking all my friends if they have someone to set me up with. I will keep pushing. And I will do more circular dating when I am around men.

    I am around all men all the time at work. Any thoughts on how to do that?

    Lastly, text man and I had a nice back and forth by text last week. He kept the convo going and I cut it off. I then left him alone. He called on Tuesday and asked me to go with him to pick out art for his place.

    I will take the advise above and enjoy. I am also planning on asking him how he sees relationships in his life so I have a better sense. Seek to understand and then be understood.

  102.  #102Sweetpea on June 17, 2010 at 8:19 am


    Yay! You’re back! You’re going to CD!

    Are you feeling more at peace now that you made your decision? Ir sounds like you’re doing better w/ the textman situation. I hope so!

  103.  #103mary on June 17, 2010 at 8:24 am

    Dear Cake and Eat it Too,

    Thank you for thinking this through.

    You said this: “It feels bad to not know heโ€™s 100%.”

    Did you mean this? “It feels bad to know he’s NOT 100%.”

    You could have been talking either way on that!


    “Itโ€™s not about feeling fair. Itโ€™s about how *I* feel.”

    This is where it goes gray for me (gray as in muddy…)

    I want all areas in my life to be harmonious.

    I was just talking with someone yesterday about business, and I said I wanted to give some flowers to someone, but I didn’t know if it was DONE in the business world. She said, “if it’s your inclination to do it, it’s the right thing. Business or no business. Everything you do in the different arenas of your life should match.”

    That felt true to me. Looking for flaws, but still feels good.

    If that’s the case, then seeing the grand scheme of things and sort of looking from above, at all the people down below, I think that what I do in my dating life has to be harmonious with what I would do for a stranger out there, or a good friend of mine, or my mother, or my friend’s child…

    In that case, it’s not about how *I* feel. It is about what’s fair.

    What do you think? Where is that line where dating gets to take a departure from what is harmonious? and what is humane?

  104.  #104Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 8:42 am

    Jeannette, RE: #83 – Dating shy men…

    Ryan is ultra shy, and I realized too late that I need to lean back extra much with him. I had taught myself to be more outgoing, since I came out of shyness 20+ years ago. So it has been challenging to me to lean back and be more of the wall flower, as Rori says.

    Then he’s still the initiator, but sometimes it takes far longer than developing a relationship with a more confident, mature, bold, masculine man.

    It can be worth the patience tho.

  105.  #105Jeannette on June 17, 2010 at 8:51 am

    Brenda, you rock girl, thanks for the advice. There is another man pursuing me too, this circular dating stuff really work. But he is pretty bold in letting me know what he wants (not asking for sex yet). So, I have to find out if one of them is more to my liking. I am sort of outgoing and love to communicate which the second guy brings to the table. The first one is oh so shy but a real sweetheart….I am not sure how to handle this, I guess go by my gut instinct is all. Brenda, where does Rori talk about how to interact with shy men? Thanks again for all your support!!

  106.  #106Siena on June 17, 2010 at 9:04 am

    Sweetpea, no, I won’t tell him he’s a bad kisser, but I will tell him I don’t feel attracted and I don’t want a fling.

    I realized this morning that I feel really angry a lot after first or second dates that don’t go well. I’m not sure what that’s about.

    The good news is that I can recognize it as anger. Pre-Rori, I honestly believed that I never got angry at anything. haha at least it feels good to know that I’m normal.

  107.  #107Simply Shannon on June 17, 2010 at 9:32 am

    Mary, I feel confused by your questions.

    Does it feel good to receive what is “fair”? Or am I just accepting it because it’s “fair”? I can already hear my brain saying the words “well that sucks but I’ll go with it because it feels fair to everyone”. Yuck.

    I still want to have my cake and eat it too. Yes, sometimes I settle for part of the cake but that’s not what I really want. I don’t want my “fair” share. I want the whole cake. Right?

    If it felt good to be fair, I wouldn’t own a home or a car or XYZ because not everyone can afford one of those. That wouldn’t be “fair”, would it?

    I feel selfish going too far down this trail. I’ve given so much of myself. I’m going to sell my house soon and live in a small apartment because I want to give more. I want to have more time and money to give.

    It’s okay to feel selfish in certain areas of my life. I feel selfish about the amount of time i spend with my kids. The rest of the world can kiss my butt if they don’t think it’s “fair”.

    Haha! Okay, way too thinky for me. I’m feeling a little angry now.

    I feel tired today. I don’t want to work. I want to go to the pool and sit in the sun for a bit.

  108.  #108Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 9:42 am


    I think MOST of her material is how to deal with shy men! I say that cuz many men are not comfortable voicing their emotions, and so when the relationship becomes emotional, they withdraw and shut down at the slightest thing. It is this dynamic that I am only now starting to learn how to deal with. It took so long for her principles to sink in, because of my huge social lacks in the past.

    I really got a lot out of Commitment Blueprint! It is packed with information and ideas!!

  109.  #109Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 9:45 am

    I’ve been thinking a lot overnight about this issue of circular dating being right for women but not allowed for men. Here is my thought progression, and I feel like I understand that dynamic better now:

    I think what it’s really about is strategy and setting the dynamics of a relationship.

    Traditionally, a man has the upper hand…he can go out and ask women out.
    If a woman plays within her feminine energy, which I’m convince by Rori that she should, she would be at the mercy of if a man asked her out.

    So she tips the scales in her favor by surrounding herself with “suitors”, unwilling to just take the first one who comes along and to be at his mercy.

    I DID that with Ryan, so I understood finally what she meant, after, and ONLY after, it all played out.

    Ryan was trying to see if I’d be true to him and him alone, even without sex. I was. And, I felt really good about it, cuz I liked him that much. But after our second beautiful shore trip (the two happiest days of my life were with him at the shore), things started to go sour. It was up and down, finally crashing and burning with his fake proposal.

    If I had been CDing thru all that, it wouldn’t have hurt me as badly, and he wouldn’t have treated me as badly to begin with. I wouldn’t have overfunctioned, cuz I’d have been busy with other men on MY bridge, not scrambling over to HIS bridge.

    I guess if you carry the analogy of a hunter to its logical end, let’s say Ryan is a hunter chasing a herd of deer. If he sets out to catch 5 of them, he will lose them all. If he targets one, he will lose the others, but he will get one. And, it will take all his focus, skill, and concentration to zero in on one.

    If I look at it in that light, it makes a little sense.

    But then my question still remains how do I communicate that to a man?

    Maybe the answer is I don’t try. Maybe it’s another case of staying on my bridge.

    If he asks, “Does it work both ways?”

    I could coyly say, “I feel surprised to hear you ask that! It would feel so yucky to tell you what to do! But I will say it would feel so good to be your target! To feel all your focus, skill, and concentration zeroing in on me with your cupid’s bow and arrow!

    After all, I would feel so bad if you lost me! (** ๐Ÿ˜‰ wink!**)

    What do you think?”

  110.  #110Dan_Brodribb on June 17, 2010 at 9:54 am

    Mary – I never understood the why-can-the-woman-CD-but-not-the-guy thing either, but Daria’s explanation in #33 makes sense.

    I share Simply Shannon’s ambivalence in 89-90 too.

    Right now I only date one person at a time. I wasn’t always this way, but lately I’ve found dating more than one person at a time too complicated and stressful. If the woman wants to date other people, that’s her business. I can’t fault her for seeing what else is out there. But if I don’t see signs she’s moving towards commitment with me, I won’t keep calling her.

    I get annoyed when I read advice like “it’s the man’s job to step up” even though I agree with it. I find it easier to ‘step up’ when the woman shows me something of herself that sets her apart in my eyes as someone I WANT to step up to.

  111.  #111Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 9:56 am


    Will you marry me? ๐Ÿ™‚ (**scandalous giggling!!**)

  112.  #112Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 10:01 am


    I feel angry when first and second dates go badly, too. For me, it stems from too many years spent as a nerd magnet cuz I was too nice or from being with loser men who I wasted precious years on.

    Now I am focusing on the best, even tho to some of you it may not appear that way.

  113.  #113mary on June 17, 2010 at 10:10 am


    Hmmmm… I DID sell my house and now i live in a little apartment. i miss my house on the harbour! with the walking path right there! and the street presence so my friends could come for parties… i guess that was giving, too. in a way.

    good questions!

    Thank you for looking up the blog post, and I felt all those same things that I felt the first time I read it. That one was very good.

    Instead of focusing on what’s fair, in dating, it’s probably best to focus on…


    And I’m not good at that. I’m trying to learn, so there you go… no wonder I have so many questions. I’m trying to control everything by understanding it and making a logical plan.

    I’m gonna keep imaging good things that I want in a relationship so i can recognize them when they appear.

    Music Man blew me away with the date on the water the other night. And the conversation after. That was amazing…

  114.  #114mary on June 17, 2010 at 10:11 am


    Brenda, you’re too funny!

  115.  #115mary on June 17, 2010 at 10:13 am


    If you were dating one of us, you’d have to just drop it, I guess.

    What if you were dating me and I was irresistible to you, but wanted to casually date until there’s a ring on my finger?

  116.  #116mary on June 17, 2010 at 10:23 am

    Whaaaaaaaaaaaa? is this facebook thing?

  117.  #117Lizzie on June 17, 2010 at 10:26 am

    Ok I feel so sad with how I have treated date #4 with Family Guy as an imaginary relationship…
    I have moved from feeling so incredibly wonderful, to feeling used like a one-night stand. The last time I did a one-night stand was when I was a young thing and I did it to get my kicks. One night stand with Family Guy was completely mind blowing wonderfulness. So I shall hold on to that wonderfulness and be blessed to have had such am amazing experience. It gives me hope that I am a step closer to the right guy in my life. I am not so happy with how Family Guy has treated me after our evening together. If and when he comes back, I will do some script preparing – I am feeling a sense of understanding about how I want to be treated – that feels good!

    So. I am feeling washes of sadness. Washing over me like a shower. I like standing in the shower. That feels like washing away – watching sad feelings go down the drain. Getting to fresh and whole and bright.

    Ha Ha, I signed up for speed dating – LOL! that will be hysterical – it is in July.

    I am going to cancel myself off of POF. It makes me sick.

  118.  #118Sweetpea on June 17, 2010 at 10:29 am

    Siena – I say this tongue in cheek, but I’ve actually been liking when the first or second date don’t go anywhere. It keeps me from dealing with the harder questions like, “why can’t men continue to date other women?” Lol I say it jokingly, but I know there’s truth to it.

  119.  #119Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 10:31 am

    I believe it’s so important to get to know someone over time. I’d enjoy breaking down to you Ryan’s most unique style of dating.

    He “plotted and schemed” in order to see me in different situations, with different kinds of people (especially other men, of course!). He spent many, many hours cuddling and having pillow talk, asking deep soul questions about my beliefs, feelings, behavior, relational style, identity. I enjoyed it, cuz it felt so good to have his attention, and to feel thoroughly understood for the first time in my life. Some people would have felt threatened by it, I’m sure.

    That’s why I believe it’s important to know someone, really KNOW someone, over an extended period of time. LIke they said last night on the blog, anyone can quote poetry. But it’s actions and long term commitment and all that that prove in the long term what a man is really made of. I have observed many, many relationships, and what I see as the common trend in the ones that fail is this…

    “I had no idea he was like that. I never would have guessed he would have done something like that when I married him. I guess you never really know who you marry. I wish I had taken more time to get to know him. He hid his true self until after we married.”

    I’ve heard all those comments and more. And where my logic takes that is to ask, “If you had known Tiger Woods was going to cheat on you with multiple women, would you have married him? If you had known your husband was gay, whould you have married him? If you had known your husband was going to slam your hand in a door and drag you around by your pony tail and threaten to throw you down the steps, would you have married him? If you had known your husband was going to try to establish mind control over you and make you his unknowing, willing slave, would you marry him (that was me with Ryan)? If you had known your husband was going to fall in love with Angelina Jolie while they were filming, would you have married him? If you had known your husband was so shallow and afraid of sharing his deep truth, would you have married him?

    Of course I could go on and on. After knowing the deep, deep heart pain of Ryan, when I thot I knew him, I have determined that before I ever commit myself to a man again, I am going to know that I know that I know all those answers in my heart. The rest of your life is a long time to spend with a man who lets you down and leaves you hurting and lonely.

  120.  #120Simply Shannon on June 17, 2010 at 10:32 am

    Mary, I feel excited to sell my house and see what happens. I feel tied down by all my “stuff”. I’m ready to let go of it all and just live a more carefree life. One where I don’t feel stuck. Working so hard to pay the bills to have a place to put more stuff. I’m over it. ๐Ÿ™‚

    I feel happy that you’re going with your feelings. Who knows. Maybe I’ll change my mind again. I sort of experimented with Mr. Fab Kisser and in the end, it didn’t work out so well. I believe I would have been happy WITH him if I had been dating other men. Sounds weird, but dating other men is truly about keeping ME sane. It’s really not about me dating to find someone else “better”.

    Dan: I feel surprised. I learned something new today. When I read your comment about ambivalence, I felt weird. I assumed that meant you thought I didn’t care. Well… I googled ambivalence. It means conflicted, like “love/hate” or unable to decide, like waffling between two things. I feel a little embarrassed that I did not know that and I was assuming something that wasn’t true. Thank you for using that word. ๐Ÿ™‚

  121.  #121Siena on June 17, 2010 at 10:55 am

    I don’t feel angry because it doesn’t go anywhere. I just feel angry around first or second date time. I even felt angry around that time with #1CD, who I’m really liking a lot, and who I feel really good with.

    Maybe something happened in my past that I’ve stuffed down around first or second date time, I’m not sure. I have had some horrendous first dates – some even scary – so maybe that’s it.

    Or maybe there’s a space before intimacy begins that is really uncomfortable for me, and it manifests itself as anger.

    hmmm… I don’t know, but I do know that they’re uncomfortable for me, and I don’t want to go on many more.

    My CD rotation has dried up. If I’m counting, I probably have dated 30 men in the last 6 months. And 1 is left. Ugh, I don’t know if I have the energy to rev back up again! They have to come to me, I’m not doing any work.

    I’ll remain open, but I’m not going to actively seek them anymore. It’ll be up to God to send them to me if that’s what’s good for me. ๐Ÿ™‚

  122.  #122mary on June 17, 2010 at 11:01 am

    simply shannon,

    i do love the simplicity. and i’m going through the last vestiges of stuff that’s been in storage.

    it does feel freeing and wonderful to be divested. and it leaves room for spontaneity with people.

    my stuff was killing me. i don’t know how to explain it. wow! sounds like you understand.

    i did buy a really nice car though. very zippy.


    your comments always carry a hint of grace. i love reading them.

  123.  #123Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 11:04 am


    I feel curious to know how you feel about what I wrote in #101 about circular dating only working one way…care to comment?

  124.  #124Simply Shannon on June 17, 2010 at 11:24 am

    Brenda, The hunter analogy was the one that popped up in my mind too. Lion is focused on one deer and the deer is focused on all of the lions. And I LOVED this…

    I could coyly say, โ€œI feel surprised to hear you ask that! It would feel so yucky to tell you what to do! But I will say it would feel so good to be your target! To feel all your focus, skill, and concentration zeroing in on me with your cupidโ€™s bow and arrow!

    After all, I would feel so bad if you lost me! (** ๐Ÿ˜‰ wink!**)

    It’s like a tennis match. He lobs one to me and I slam it right back with a grin. No need to stay stuck on this topic explaining it. Simply “No, I feel better keeping my options open. what do you think?”

  125.  #125Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 11:31 am


    Thank you for your feedback! So when I look at it thru this analogy, I don’t see it as selfish. I see it as leveling the playing field. He wants deer for dinner? He better learn to single out one deer, or he gonna go hungry!! I want cupid’s bow and arrow to target me? I better be flashing my smile at ALL the lovely lions, and may the best lion win!

    Do you know how to gauge when to let him take over our rotation? Like Rori says to treat all men equally, even if you like one more than the others. Yet we are talking about encouraging him to step up and show us his is the best roar. What if we’ve known him a week or two, and he wants to book us every single night? Do we allow him, assuming we are attracted?

  126.  #126kismet on June 17, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    It was our marriage talk with our families together that is happening this weekend.

    Yesterday I felt drowsy and losing my balance, about to faint several times I think. When I went to bed at 1 am, thoughts were running through my head. What if I black out and they take me to the hospital, they’ll call him. What will he be thinking? What if I die? I’ll be sad never knowing if we actually got together on our last day or if that really was our last. Thinking how I may never hear his words and plan and never telling him my last words, I got really scared. Then I had a sudden thought of what if he dies? God, it scared and saddened me.

    Right at that moment my phone flashed and vibrated. He was texting me. He didn’t reply to me yesterday evening because he needed to get sleep before turning himself in to court/jail (car with no insurance). We talked a bit and since he might still be in jail when we have our family talk, I decided to ask him if the wedding talk was still on or off. I actually didn’t want to ask, but situation called for it. He said “on, why?” I thought he mispelled no. I was scared to even look at his response in case he said no/off.

    He confirmed it’s on.
    I said I asked because I didnt know what is going on between us and he might be in jail.
    He said “baby we are dating ok? and I love you.”
    That rose the content in my heart to lots of happiness and a smile on my face!

    I still dont know if he told me to meet him the other day because he wanted to get back, or if it was because of me, or because we just got over the fight eventually.

    But I’m glad things are fine now! ๐Ÿ™‚

    Have anyone read Intimate Communion by David Deida?
    I think I am Stage 3: Passionate/Intimate communion
    Stage 1 is Dependent Relationship
    Stage 2 is 50/50 Relationship

  127.  #127Daria on June 17, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    ohhh… i feel tightened up and uncomfortable

  128.  #128Daria on June 17, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Kismet – I feel afraid reading your posts. It sounds like he has all the power in the relationship… you’re hoping and waiting for him, etc… he sounds like a good guy

    I feel worried that your relationship won’t hold out if you keep letting him have all the power – we women have all the power in the relationship

    it sounds like your thoughts are all dramatic “last day” etc, and he’s taking it casually … but pulling back some…

    i would feel so much happier to hear you talking about how you are feeling confident in yourself, and you’ve told him certain things feel bad, and you’re leaning back and letting him contact you – like this text
    i feel SO triggered

    I’ve seen ohter relationships break up when the woman is pregnant, because of neediness

    I feel afraid MYSELF that if I were to get close to a man to the point of having his baby I would “lose all control” and get overdramatic and not respect him with my words by leaning forward and using the tools

    I did this over the weekend with Dman, i gave him attitude and overdramatized taht “you call my girl everyday” … and then later he called me and thought he was calling his babymama and i said no this is not her and rolled my eyes in my tone and hung up

    ok i felt mad, and i communicated that, but the WAY i communicated it, though it felt fun a lil, was OLD way, not way that invites intimacy.


    he hasnt called me since

    oh well i feel mad at him

    see the “oh well” = defense


    i feel tightenede up and hunkered down right now


  129.  #129kismet on June 17, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    I’m not waiting and hoping anymore. It doesn’t matter to me anymore because I know I can do without him, and I have what it takes to make it. I’m over the fears and scared stage because I’m too tired to care, it’s me and the baby first. But I do have to admit that I do give him a bit more of the power.

    Just that it is even better when we are together. What I mean by “last day” is referring to that day and not knowing what really went on. I know the way say it must seem dramatic, but sometimes we need to face the truth of how it would feel if we died and didn’t do/say what we wanted. When you see things this way, is not desperate, it is true to your heart with real intent. I knew that by us seeing eachother after our breakup, we would see the love is still there, the emotions still there and the fight so little compared to us. Fights are worse when they’re not in person, seeing each other would clear up that muddiness. But I did not expect us to get together, I was totally ready to just say my parting and move on. I guess he felt my truth even in my text that’s why the mood shifted and he wanted me to see him? He’s the type that breaks up and says sorry about the fight and comes back. But I was intent on letting him go forever. When I feel that way, things no longer hurt or bother me.

    I do feel pretty confident and content, unbothered because I know things will be fine, and today I’m back to my original awesome feeling self–in some ways because we’re back together, and the rest is just my siren energy! ๐Ÿ™‚

  130.  #130kismet on June 17, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    I think I had the power when I messaged him our break up/letting go song and he knew I was serious and thus the dynamic shifted.

  131.  #131Lucy on June 17, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    I kinda don’t even really want him anymore, but I do miss all those amazing feelings I felt when he wanted ME.

  132.  #132Simply Shannon on June 17, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Daria: It feels interesting that you mentioned “rolled your eyes with your tone”. I heard someone speaking over the weekend (was it church? I can’t remember). Anyhoo. There was a man who said he could predict with some certainty the couples that would stay together and ones that would get divorced. He said if he saw them rolling their eyes at each other they would likely split at some point.

    I thought about that one because a) I rolled my eyes with my ex a lot and b) one of my sons started rolling his eyes, and I’ve made a very conscious effort to NOT do that anymore.

    Rolling my eyes means I don’t respect what I’m hearing. I KNOW I didn’t respect my ex. For a man, respect = love. I bet it was easy for him to see how much I loved him. I feel sad thinking about that.

  133.  #133kismet on June 17, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Leaning back = Reverse Psychology

    Hmm lol. reverse psychology works!

  134.  #134Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    A long time ago I started seeing a psychologist. He rolled his eyes and I felt so emotionally unsafe after that. A few weeks later I quit going to see him. We just weren’t on the same page.

    Teddy Bears don’t roll their eyes. They just love and accept unconditionally.

  135.  #135Sweetpea on June 17, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    Lucy – that is profound! That’s what I always missed too. Once I remembered that, it was easier to say “Next!” Because I could ask myself if I truly missed him the way he is & if I thought it would ever go back to the way it was. The answer was always “No…” So the logical conclusion is, “ok then, NEXT!” I’d forgotten about that lovely trick.

  136.  #136Jasmine on June 17, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    Hi, I’ve been listening to Rori Raye’s CD programs for a few weeks now (Modern Siren, Commitment Blueprint, Have the Relationship You Want).

    I was dating just one man but now I’m dating two others. The first man, “Butch”, was making promises and not keeping them. Like he’d ask me if I want to take dance lessons with him then never follow thru, even when I left a flyer out under his nose about dance lessons. He said he was going to write a song about me but never did. I don’t know if he’s just leading me on or if he’s got ADHD! He’s just all talk and little action. So I decided to try circular dating to see if he would treat me with more value. Is there anything else I can do? I really love him and don’t want to lose him. But I don’t want to be treated like I’m anything less than a princess.

  137.  #137JNET on June 17, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Thanks for the great read. I’ve never watched the Good Wife. I’ve never owned a television for that matter… life keeps me plenty busy ๐Ÿ™‚

    And I relate to the character’s creating a good life for herself and in that space someone saying hello makes life interesting.

    Poetry is the easy part and planning is not. I’ve ended phone calls with the request to “show me your plan”.

    That request makes intentions crystal clear… and the journey toward love much more interesting.

    Thanks again for the great read.


  138.  #138Daria on June 17, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    “Every mistake you and I make with men are
    mistakes we’ve been TAUGHT are the right things
    to do!

    And they’re the mistakes that men ENCOURAGE us
    to make – even DARE us to make.

    Men are USED to women making these mistakes,
    and they’re only too happy to let us make them
    over and over because they make things easy for

    These are the mistakes that make it easier for
    a man to avoid intimacy and responsibility, and
    they make him feel good in the moment.”


  139.  #139Daria on June 17, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    “But the truth is – these mistakes men
    encourage us to make don’t make a man feel better
    in the LONG TERM.”

    this reminds me of Mary’s questioning of men’s feelings…

    a man feels better in the long term when he fights/WORKS HARD/ completes a challenge

  140.  #140Daria on June 17, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    Most of the mistakes we make with men look
    like this:

    We believe we have to:

    find a man
    approach him,
    get him talking
    interest him
    get him to call,
    show him we’re independent
    meet him halfway about everything
    tell him where we want to go on dates
    make plans
    schedule everything
    drive ourselves
    be understanding
    make time for him,
    tell him what we want and pretty much keep things
    going by DOING something.

  141.  #141Daria on June 17, 2010 at 1:50 pm







  142.  #142Jasmine on June 17, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    Right on, Daria!

    I just wanna sit naked on a big rock near the shore of Siren Island and smile at the passing ships! Let them crash their ships to cum to me! **giggles!!**

  143.  #143Lizzie on June 17, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Thanks Daria – I am buying into that any more – I love the change by leaning-back.
    I signed-up for speed dating the first week in July – I am going to practice the whole thing – I need some good questions for my 10 minutes with each of the 10 dudes. This could be over the top amusing!!!

  144.  #144Lizzie on June 17, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    siren ladies – I need questions for my 10 speed-date-dudes – bring on your very best….lets really have a blast with this…

  145.  #145joan on June 17, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    Many years ago that “rolling eyes” topic came up on an Oprah show, too. That particular episode featured a marriage/relationship counselor* who had been videotaping the couples he worked with so that he could corroborate their non-verbal communication with their progress (or lack of it) in therapy. He also said that the eye rolling was an indicator of relationships that were likely to dissolve. However, he posited that the gesture signalled contempt for the other person; hence, the reason that the relationship would be more difficult (if not impossible) to revive.

    *Note: I think the counselor was Harville Hendrix, PhD, but I haven’t waded through the Oprah show archives to confirm.

  146.  #146Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 2:19 pm


    1. What do you think about as you fall asleep?
    2. What was your favorite dream ever?
    3. How do you handle it when a woman cries out of sadness?
    4. If you had one day left to live, what would you do with it?
    5. When you want to make love with your lady, how does it begin?
    6. When you are making love, when does it end?
    7. If you were driving down the road on the coldest day of the year and saw an injured, live kitten, what would you do?
    8. If you were having a controversial discussion with your lady, and she said, “I feel unheard”, what would you do or say?
    9. What is your favorite type of movie?
    10. What is your favorite type of music?
    11. What is your favorite free-time activity on a weekend?
    12. If we were on a date on the boardwalk, and you saw a hot chick walking towards us in a bikini, what would you do?
    13. If we were on a date on the boardwalk, and I saw a hot chick walking towards us in a bikini, what would you hope I would do?
    14. How would you handle it if we were walking up a steep, long hill, and I was just getting over an injury, and I asked you if you would please carry my purse?

  147.  #147Lizzie on June 17, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Oh Brenda, some of those are just hillarious! Gee, I just might have far more effective dates if I asked some of your questions – I go sooooo deep….

    – what is really important to you in life?
    – what influenced you the most from your childhood?
    – what is/was your father like?
    – what was the most spontaneous thing you have done in the last 5 years?
    – if you had 50 million dollars what would you do with it?

  148.  #148dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    i feel a little concerned about the safety tips…i don’t agree with some of that advice.

  149.  #149Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 2:35 pm


    I like your questions, IF a guy would actually GO deep. But would he? Or would he say something like…

    – what is really important to you in life?
    – what influenced you the most from your childhood?
    My parents
    – what is/was your father like?
    He was loving
    – what was the most spontaneous thing you have done in the last 5 years?
    Drove to the casino in the middle of the night
    – if you had 50 million dollars what would you do with it?
    Buy a house and a yacht and travel around the world

    I was trying to think of questions that looked surfacey but would actually tell me a great deal about a man…his values, his level of respect for women, if he’s other-centered…

    I thot of scenarios I have faced when dating when I felt really disappointed in a man…and turned them into questions. I have fun with this sort of thing. I want to do speed dating now! LOL!

  150.  #150Siena on June 17, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    Lizzie, not saying you have to do it this way, but when I went speed dating a couple months ago, I didn’t prepare any questions.

    I showed up looking and smelling great, leaned back in my chair and smiled at each guy as they came to sit down. Then I waited for them to speak first, which was actually fun and totally drilled the Siren thing into my brain and body. Finally, I let them each drive the convo, and just talked about what they wanted to talk about. And all I focused on was responding to them using feeling messages.

    It felt really fun, I got 3 offers for dates afterwards, and heard many times that I was super easy to talk to.

    I went home feeling diva-ish!

  151.  #151Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 2:35 pm


    Why don’t you agree with some? I feel curious.

  152.  #152Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 2:38 pm


    That’s awesome! I really like that! I thought you had to ask questions.

  153.  #153joan on June 17, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Sweetpea — I don’t want to be a downer, but I feel agreement with Siena’s concern about being wary of this guy — at least for a little while longer.

    We tend to forget the availability of this information to everyone — not just women. It seems to me that a true “player” would also be checking out resources such as The Rules or Rori’s blog or Paige Parker’s forum or any other number of women’s relationship advice sites. That way, he already knows what you’re going to ask for before you do it.

    I hope we’re very wrong. I’d be tickled pink if he ultimately turns out to be as good as he appears.

  154.  #154Lizzie on June 17, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Brilliant Siena! Indeed I am doing this to practice being a total siren diva! This will be an outstanding exercise in leaning back. Oh I am so excited to do this now! LOL!!

  155.  #155Siena on June 17, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    Naw, I say let the men do all the hard work of trying to figure out what to talk about.

    Haha I’m remembering now that I didn’t even say ‘hi’ as they sat down, fumbled with their drink and chair and whatever. I literally just sat there smiling until they opened up the convo with something. Talk about feeling powerful!

  156.  #156Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    Is this weird or what?

    Hello Jack!

    It feels good to receive your email! You look like a real decent man, inside and out!

    What kind of Native American are you? I’m part Blackfoot, and that is my favorite part of my ethnicity! I have always felt part of nature, and I love animals! I see you have a dog…what kind? I feel curious about the “green party” in politics…I never heard of that!

    Have a wonderful Jesus day!


    Jack said:

    how are you doing today i think you are doing great, nice hear from you, well im honest man i keep it real with woman when it come to relationship i hate people that lie ,if you have yahoo im you can give me so i we add you that , so we can talk better….

    Hi Jack!
    I feel so relaxed sitting here at my computer listening to the Delilah Show! I feel happy you emailed me! I also value realness and honesty. Sorry, I am not really into IMing.
    I’m signing off now….

    Jack said:



    Hello Jack,
    I am a document specialist at a pharmaceutical company. Basically, I edit and format documents in MS Word. I don’t have any children. I live with my two German Shepherds and two cats. How about you? I love to travel! I took a really fun vacation last year to North Carolina, and I really look forward to relaxing at the shore this summer! I might even go for a day this weekend!
    Have a great day!

    hello brenda
    how are you doing today i think you are doing great ,,,my question for you is that ,are you read for serious relationship just want to know becos im tire of being alone, I try to put this feeling into words, but fail miserably. This feeling of being both scared and at peace, of having both butterflies and a sense of calm, is a feeling that I have only dreamed about. As the days continue to pass, my love for you continues to grow. I never thought I had the capacity to love anybody as much as I love you right now. Yet, my love for you continues to mature, growing beyond the realm of my heart. It seems that you have become the fiber of my soul, the very reason for my existence…… i do think about you everytime


  157.  #157Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    Is this weird or what??

    Hello Jack!

    It feels good to receive your email! You look like a real decent man, inside and out!

    What kind of Native American are you? I’m part Blackfoot, and that is my favorite part of my ethnicity! I have always felt part of nature, and I love animals! I see you have a dog…what kind? I feel curious about the “green party” in politics…I never heard of that!

    Have a wonderful J*sus day!


    Jack said:

    how are you doing today i think you are doing great, nice hear from you, well im honest man i keep it real with woman when it come to relationship i hate people that lie ,if you have yahoo im you can give me so i we add you that , so we can talk better….

    Hi Jack!
    I feel so relaxed sitting here at my computer listening to the Delilah Show! I feel happy you emailed me! I also value realness and honesty. Sorry, I am not really into IMing.
    I’m signing off now….

    Jack said:



    Hello Jack,
    I am a document specialist at a pharmaceutical company. Basically, I edit and format documents in MS Word. I don’t have any children. I live with my two German Shepherds and two cats. How about you? I love to travel! I took a really fun vacation last year to North Carolina, and I really look forward to relaxing at the shore this summer! I might even go for a day this weekend!
    Have a great day!

    hello brenda
    how are you doing today i think you are doing great ,,,my question for you is that ,are you read for serious relationship just want to know becos im tire of being alone, I try to put this feeling into words, but fail miserably. This feeling of being both scared and at peace, of having both butterflies and a sense of calm, is a feeling that I have only dreamed about. As the days continue to pass, my love for you continues to grow. I never thought I had the capacity to love anybody as much as I love you right now. Yet, my love for you continues to mature, growing beyond the realm of my heart. It seems that you have become the fiber of my soul, the very reason for my existence…… i do think about you everytime


  158.  #158Siena on June 17, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    I wouldn’t have thought speed dating was fun, but when I approached it as Siren practice, it was a blast! Have fun Lizzie!

  159.  #159Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    How about this conversation? Bill’s been back from a 2 week cruise since Monday. This is the first time he’s really been personable with me since he’s been back….anyone care to critique this for me? Please understand, we are both burned out at our jobs…

    Bill: Hi Brenda – here is a re-write on 163.

    I hope all is going well over there!

    Brenda: Thank you! I feel all cuddly embracing such words as “alum adsorbed”, standard deviation”, and “monoclonal”. The depth of these documents just move my soul to tears of joy!

    Bill: Hehe – hey –

    What’s the standard deviation of the results you obtained from your alum absorbed IgG2a monoclonal antibody in the last HPV qualification?

    See – I made a sentence!

    Brenda: It’s “s”, which stands for stupid, sanity-challenging, sickening

    Bill: Hehe – you speaka my language!

    Brenda: !@#$%*!@#$%*!@#$%* ๐Ÿ™‚

    Bill: That was badโ€ฆ. Really bad!

  160.  #160Siena on June 17, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    Run far far away Brenda. FAR!!!

  161.  #161dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    yay tallgirl is here

  162.  #162Siena on June 17, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    And Bill sounds cute ๐Ÿ˜‰ Jack sounds psycho

  163.  #163Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 2:55 pm


    Thank you! I thot so too! Like whaaaaat?? He barely answered any of my questions. We’ve been in contact for well, this is Day 3! And he’s falling in love??? Either he’s a total player or he’s psycho. I mean, we haven’t even talked on the phone yet!

    Can you suggest how to respond? I know “I feel weird” will definitely be part of my response!!

  164.  #164Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    Was Bill just joking when he said, “That was bad! Really bad!”?

    I felt so proud of myself that I let him be the last to respond! New skill for overfunctioning Brenda!

  165.  #165Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 2:57 pm


    Welcome back! I love you!

  166.  #166dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    brenda there’s nothing to critique. now you just lean back. ๐Ÿ˜€ how easy is that!

  167.  #167Siena on June 17, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    If you HAVE to respond because it would make you feel good to practice feeling messages I would say.

    Oh yuck, Jack. Your email feels way over the top to me, and I don’t feel comfortable continuing our correspondence. Best of luck.

    …but I would probably just delete his stuff, and hide myself from him if at all possible. I don’t think he’s a player, I think he’s crazy and that feels scary to me. For safety, I would stay away.

  168.  #168Lizzie on June 17, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    Run Brenda, Run. See Brenda Run. Bad man. See bad man stand with mouth hanging open….
    I thought I only found guys like that… I should dig out some of the ones I kept for amuzement. Oh bad, bad, bad, lizzie….

    Bill might have possibilities – do you actually know him?

  169.  #169Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    Dorothea and Siena,

    Thank you both!

  170.  #170Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 3:04 pm


    Thank you for your input! Bill is a coworker. Technically, he’s not my supervisor. But in a way he is. He’s a senior scientist, and I am doing a long-term project with him revising a set of documents. He works in a different building (3 minute walk). I see him now and then, but most of our contact is thru company email or IM.

  171.  #171Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    Bad, bad Lizzie,

    I want to hear your toxic man stuff you saved! LOL!

  172.  #172Lizzie on June 17, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    Oh this is so awful:

    second email from the guy:
    How was your night? hope you had a great sleep right?any way I love to know you more and more from good and healthy communication like this and precisely something wonderful can come out from this so then I believe we can keep on communicating gradually with each other in other to see what happens from here, You really have a wonderful heart and I would do love to know you well in other to see the wonderful things that could come out from this little communication we have both decided to well I don’t really have much to say…
    Relationship is something wonderful we have all be willing to do, buts is unfortunate we cannot meet our rightful age mostly more closer but I don’t think all is over I believe if we can peruse something long as well too we could go more closer I guess, lets just take our time to see what can happen from here and I believe we can reach somewhere okay, I would love to communicate with you much and everyday since I love the way you presented matters, you seems really sweet and I believe something nice is around here we can both make good use to right.
    Now in my life I believe relationship is like a train. If one passes, then the next one will come. I’m sure and if you get off the train, you’ll realize that everything is the same. so though as Birds are entangled by their feet Man are by the tongue so its up to we the Woman to know how to treate the Man to make Man understand they are equal like we, I just need someone I can open up entirely in communication and in physical with, just to make the wonderful hearted person realize she is like me, in my relationship with that wonderful person, I wish to make Him understand he views are accepted, the way he thinks and behaves are really welcome, I would love to always be closer to him and play with him, cook with him or for him sometimes, do early morning jogging with him, talk to him at length and to fight with him sometimes lol besides understanding each other sometimes and mostly all the time is the main foundation of the relationship and that is something we should try to test our faith I guess…
    I am open to the woman who is ready to access me and my fault since am not an Angel and to like me and love me as I will do the same in return, I believe though its hard to come close to someone nice in heart but I know for real that there are still some wonderfully born nice people around this world still though there are too much hurts now, I know to find that pretty somebody soon, and the bases is just a good and healthy communication, so am ready and willing to see where this leads to and I believe it will happened very soon. I need that wonderful friend, someone who can talk to me to make me feel at home.
    Sometimes I wonder why bad people comes into our lives, any way I sometimes also believes that people come into our lives and walk with us a mile, and then because of circumstance they only stay a while. They serve a need within the days that move so quickly by, and then are gone beyond our reach,I often wonder why. Don’t you think its strange? But now in my life I hope to meet that wonderful person who can really feel the vacuum, I am in need now of real wonderful love and I believe every one on the site we met is willing to meet his or her true love, I believe we can communicate to see if we can come closer to that then okay.
    I am in need of a good friend because mostly a friendship is sweet when it’s new,Sweeter even more when it’s true.But it is sweetest when the friend is someone you can also fall in love with since it makes the relationship more communicable and more wonderful since you will always be happy since you can talk any how and he or she will understand you perfectly how I wish I meet my wonderful queen soon, any way lets see what lies ahead of us we could be happy someday soon right? I believe friends are like diamonds and they are rare and very precious. So I will like to treat the friend I meet her carefully and lovingly and keep her safe in my heart so I ‘ll never lose her in other for her to be my babe forever since I cannot start searching for love again once I found her.
    I think I have to leave you now and talk to you later take good care of your self there and have it in mind someone nice in heart thinking about you and care about you for real.
    Charlot writes with caring heart to you.

  173.  #173dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    Mostly what worried me is this one:

    “1. Tip from Tae Kwon Do :
    The elbow is the strongest point
    On your body.
    If you are close enough to use it, do!”

    I don’t recommend engaging in combat lol. If you are to choose between trying to hurt an attacker or run, RUN! Anyway, the knee is actually the strongest point, and it’s much easier to control where that lands.

    also, the heel of your hand to the tip and underside of an assailant’s nose will be very effective…but it could very well KILL them.

    other advice for women’s self defense in dangerous situations i’d feel good adding is don’t take out weapons or protection except to immediately use it. brandishing it or showing it to discourage an attacker or robber really only gives that person time to take it from you and use it against you. So if you’re gonna pull out the pepper spray, you better use it the second you pull it out.

    if you are being seriously attacked and are trying to hit your way out of it, if you can hold something blunt or heavy like a rock in your hand while punching, you’ll hit a lot harder.

    if you get grabbed from behind, take the side of your foot or your heel and grind it down their shin as hard as you can. OUCH. If you need more OOMPH after this, consider using the elbow (this really does take practice though) then turn around and take your hand’s heel to their nose. Again, this might kill them. Just a warning. Sometimes you can just go for their shin, and then take a knee to their crotch and run. Kicking with your foot might turn into you getting your foot grabbed and you’re trapped.

  174.  #174tinque on June 17, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    Lizzie – I have to chime in here. that e-mail feels so ick to me. yikes…

  175.  #175Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    Here’s the continuing story…

    Brenda: Oh yuck, Jack. I feel weirded out. Your email feels way over the top to me, and I donโ€™t feel comfortable continuing our correspondence. Best of luck.

    Jack: hello i think you are here …..did you have yahoo im so we can chat on that .if you do give so i we add you on that so we can talk better

    I already told him I don’t IM last night. I just told him bye bye. I got my feeling message practice in.

    Trust me, I will NOT contact him again!!! I feel almost shocked!

  176.  #176dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    oh yeah he’s a crazy… lol.

  177.  #177Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 3:37 pm


    Your email feels ick to me, too. Something off there.

    A friend of mine was getting comparable emails for a while, and she kept up the correspondence to see where it would lead. He turned out to be a scammer who was trying to get women to send him money. It became an apparent pattern that he was copying and pasting flowery-sounding words. His all had poor grammar and spelling like this…he was from Africa. I know you can’t stereotype, but something feels off with this. And, I have FINALLY! learned to trust my intuition!

  178.  #178Dan_Brodribb on June 17, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    Brenda (re: 103) – Is this the part where I’m supposed to lean back? ๐Ÿ™‚ I can never remember.

    Just teasing. I WOULD have to get my girlfriend’s permission before I marry someone else. She’s funny like that ๐Ÿ™‚

    Mary – (re 107) we’d talk about it and see how we felt. And if we found ourselves on different pages we’d each have to decide what was most important to us.

    Shannon – Ambivalence is one of my favorite words. ‘Ziggurat’ is another favorite,though that one I almost never get to say.

  179.  #179Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 3:43 pm


    LOL! Thanks for being a good sport! I always like to practice on my leaning back and feeling message skills (ie, like I did in #103)! ๐Ÿ™‚

    Just let me know what your girlfriend decides. I really like your looks! We could marry this Saturday!

  180.  #180Lizzie on June 17, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    I agree – I think there are some serious scammers on the dating sites. They post these really hadsome photos and do all the gushy stuff…I am a widow….bla bla bla. When I get them, I send them around to all my dating friends – the men ones. They have the best reactions! Because real men seem to do these kind of emails:

    “OK see you tomorrow at 5:PM. Call me if you need anything.”
    “I like your style”
    “How flexible are you for getting together on Monday?”
    “Fore! How about Friday?”
    “thanks babes”
    “that was nice”

    It just makes me laugh. Now if I get much more than one sentence from a guy – I am real suspicious!

  181.  #181Sweetpea on June 17, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    Joan – Hi lady! Nice to see you here again! I hope all is well with you.
    Re:#142, thank you for your well wishes & your cautionary.. Please know that I’m taking your advice as well as Siena’s under advisement. please know that I am a street smart girl who’s avoided players thus far in life. I can spot them a mile away. I’m listening to any cautionary statements I get here & if anyone else I would like to submit one, I’m all ears. Since I am practicing opening up & learning new skills, I’m not saying that it’s impossible that a player might sneak by me now. I’ve been watching for it since date 1 with this guy & I’m not seeing any indication. If he is a player, he’s the worst one I’ve ever seen, because his profile is the opposite of “smooth.” But, I’m still detached from the outcome. I’m just leaning back here to see what’s going to happen next.
    If he ends up being another practice guy, so be it. What I’m needing from you Sirens, is to know about the next step. The “no girlfriend” speech and what to do about booking dates. Like I said, this guy is stepping up & would take me out every night if I would let him. Yes, I’m going to continue to CD. Until I have a ring on my finger, just like I told him. But if he’s booking me before everyone else, do I turn him down? Or do I accept & just book my other dates further out?
    Thank all of you for pitching in on the why we can CD but they can’t question.
    In the meantime, if anyone can help me out with these other questions, I would really appreciate it. In fact, I’m begging here,… HELP!

  182.  #182Daria on June 17, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    My guess at Jack’s email –

    that was a poem he had written before… and he’s talking about how he WANTS his relationship to be, not how he feels right now.

    i still feel turned off to get a pre written non time appropriate poem

  183.  #183Daria on June 17, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    Sweetpea –

    I would let him book all he wants.. thats what a man is SUpposed to do to step up.


  184.  #184Sweetpea on June 17, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    Daria – interesting. I had the same thought – that Jack’s email was a poem or quote or something.

  185.  #185Sweetpea on June 17, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    Thanks Daria – That’s what I was thinking, that Rori says somewhere to let him step up, but I couldn’t find where I read it.

  186.  #186Lucy on June 17, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    Thanks for the positive feedback, Sweetpea — that feels good. ๐Ÿ™‚

  187.  #187mary on June 17, 2010 at 5:46 pm



    your marriage talk with your families, and he’s saying, “we’re dating?” he’s living in a dream world, eh?

    i feel amazed and thrilled by your courage! and your little sweet baby will be so blessed to have you for a mother!

  188.  #188Simply Shannon on June 17, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    Sweetpea: This is where it’s important to go with my feelings. If he asks me out for Friday, Saturday, and Sunday and I feel hesitant or want to do something else (or I start to feel overwhelmed that I’m seeing him so much), then maybe you say “no but how about some other time?”

    I personally don’t like to plan too far ahead. It leaves out all options for spontaneity.

    And it’s important to schedule things that are important to me too. So I’m not all sucked up in being with him. Ya know?

  189.  #189Simply Shannon on June 17, 2010 at 6:00 pm

    Dan: I feel smiley. Ziggurat? Never heard of that one either. I looked it up of course. Wikipedia suggested that I recruit an expert to verify the definition. Are you an expert? ๐Ÿ˜‰

  190.  #190Lucy on June 17, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    My son and I studied ziggurats when I homeschooled him a few years ago.

    I feel smiley at Shannon and Brenda flirting with Dan.

    Hey, Rori said in a recent post that if a guy has a “girlfriend” he’s still up for grabs. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  191.  #191dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    brenda, i was out shopping this evening and i was thinking about you. yes, YOU, goddesslady. i feel so good and comforted and high seeing your using those great feeling messages with bill

    it gives me chills. it’s sooooo sireny the way you just focus on how you feel, it feels sexy as hell to me in an authentic, subtle way.

  192.  #192dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 6:26 pm

    shannon – ziggurat is the babylonian word for iced tea, of course. though some linguists disagree and say it is actually an adjective to describe peanut butter.

  193.  #193Simply Shannon on June 17, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    LOL! Dorothea, you funny.

    Once when I was playing Balderdash, I got the word Bagnut. I can’t remember the real definition.

    My definition was…

    “Pronounced Bah-Nu, a French pastry”.

    EVERYONE picked my definition. I still laugh about that one. Bahhh-Nuuu. Hahahaha!

    And I’m from the South so you can imagine the other definitions used for Bag-Nut. Quite hilarious. ๐Ÿ™‚

  194.  #194Jilly on June 17, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    Alicia #81…I’ve been wondering the exact same thing..if I’m going to end up settling on one of the nicey’s even though I’m not really attracted physically.

    I totally made someone up in my head…I was talking to this guy for about 4 or 5 days before we met and I was feeling so good about it and then when I saw him it was like a whole new person. I went to bed actually missing the guy I made up…WOW! He was perfect. But in real life I just didn’t feel a thing.

    On a different note…I got a message last night from my bosses bosses boss that I’ve known for about 5yrs and I am very attracted to and I’m wondering how in the hell I’m going to be able to act normal and treat him the same as all the others!! ๐Ÿ˜‰

  195.  #195Lizzie on June 17, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    peanut butter – the sensuous food of the world…I love peanut butter….

    I was going to take myself off POF tonight but when I logged on, two cuties popped up and I sent them a message and what do you know…they both responded. I am in hide mode though. I am still miffed over creating a phantom relationship with Family Guy – jeeeeze -any way, I am feeling more content that I am using my masculine doing energy to sign up for speed dating and getting notes back from cute guys on POF. Now I am just going to let all my feminine energy be leaned back.

    I am off to do some knitting – sirens, thanks for the support today!

  196.  #196Jilly on June 17, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    Oh and I just wanted to say that I am learning so much from all of you Sirens! ๐Ÿ˜‰ I read a lot more than I post but I always seem to take something away…for instance I was thinking of something witty to back to Toby Keith (that’s my boss’s boss’s boss..he reminds me of Toby Keith ๐Ÿ˜‰ and then I remembered that I don’t need to be witty..just respond with a feeling message…and I did and I feel good and relaxed about it and not second guessing…I love not second guessing!…so THANKS everyone ๐Ÿ˜‰

  197.  #197dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 7:04 pm

    yesss i love not trying to come up with something witty

    i don’t like it because you do it for a payoff but the guarantee of payoff is iffy at best. feels scary in a bad bad bad way

  198.  #198dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    hey sirens, i have been kind of obsessing over what’s going to happen with my LI, and how things are not going very well right now for us and I have been feeling bad and obsessed

    but today i took my energy back and stopped being attached or worried about the outcome. and my vibe shifted like WOAH. i went from feeling like he was the only man in the world to getting hit on and looked at by numerous men in just a couple hours’ time.

    and the kicker was being at the chain drug store and the cashier saw me admiring the nifty top on his canned drink that prevents it from spilling, and he actually offered to buy me a beverage!

    that like never happens! a clerk at a chain store offers one of the customers in line a drink. sooo cute.

    i ran into an old male friend of mine who owns a kiosk at the outdoor mall and he asked how is my boyfriend? i said “which one?” i was kidding because i’ve been pretty wrapped up in just this one guy lately and i knew exactly who he was talking about. but then i said “actually i don’t do boyfriends.” and he said “that’s good!” and i said “i don’t believe in the word boyfriend. there’s either date or fiance.” and he was so impressed and almost relieved that i “got it.”

    i feel good and sireny.

  199.  #199Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 7:46 pm


    RE: #180 – You said, “brenda, i was out shopping this evening and i was thinking about you. yes, YOU, goddesslady. i feel so good and comforted and high seeing your using those great feeling messages with bill

    it gives me chills. itโ€™s sooooo sireny the way you just focus on how you feel, it feels sexy as hell to me in an authentic, subtle way.”

    WOWOWOWOWOW! Thanks! I feel like I just got an A+ in class! I really needed the encouragement! I can’t tell you how much that means to me. I’ve been really fighting depression lately. Thanks again!

  200.  #200Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 7:49 pm

    Hey Dan!

    Lucy said, “Hey, Rori said in a recent post that if a guy has a โ€œgirlfriendโ€ heโ€™s still up for grabs.”

    I feel so bad I was overfucktioning, I mean, overfunctioning so badly with you earlier! I feel so embarrassed! **fluttering my eyelashes!!**

  201.  #201Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 7:49 pm

    Hey Dan!

    Lucy said, โ€œHey, Rori said in a recent post that if a guy has a โ€œgirlfriendโ€ heโ€™s still up for grabs.โ€

    I feel so bad I was overfunctioning so badly with you earlier! I feel so embarrassed! **fluttering my eyelashes!!**

  202.  #202Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    Okay, just to update you on Psycho Jack…

    I was just getting ready to leave work earlier when an IM pop-up popped up, inviting me to join the IM. I have no doubt it was Jack. I closed down my computer and was really scared and stressing all the way home.

    Thank God no more contact from him, at least so far. So i feel more at ease. I’m just going to ignore him if he does try to contact me again.

    I felt really buoyed up having all of you to discuss it with and get confirmation on my weirded out feeling. I really appreciate this “Island” as the oasis it is! Now I just need to let it alone long enuff to do my job and face my real-life issues, like paperwork!

  203.  #203dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 8:09 pm

    thank YOU brenda, you way inspired me this evening with how your vibe shifted so much with bill just going into your feminine position. i feel so grateful for the inspirational sirens here. daria talked to me earlier about what she would say or feel or do in my situation, and it gave me so much courage.

  204.  #204Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 8:12 pm


    I also meant to thank you for your knowledgeable feedback on the safety information!! Thank you very much! I emailed it back to the friend who sent me it.

  205.  #205Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 8:15 pm

    Dan?? Darling???

    Ahem!! I’m leaning back here in my comfy Staples office chair looking at my beautiful vase of flowers and listening to Delilah, just awaiting your open season attention!! ***fluffing my pretties***

  206.  #206Simply Shannon on June 17, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    I am laughing at myself. Why do I feel like I just got cock-blocked and/or called to the principal’s office?

    Shannon, you’ve been written up for flirting without a license. That’s a 30 day suspension of all peanut butter privileges.

    Dorothea: Does that mean you are circular dating? I feel clueless. Were you dating others or just LI? I feel excited to hear that you are changing things up and experimenting! Feels good to hear thing shifting!

  207.  #207Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 8:19 pm


    You seem really street smart. Can you or anyone please answer a question? I am checking out another guy I’ve been getting to know (not from a dating site, but from real life) and a brief statement was made between him and a guy friend that made me wonder if he and his housemate (a different guy friend) are gay. How can I know? Is there some sly way I could find out? So I don’t keep bestowing my feminine energy on him unnecessarily? Oh, I guess I could chalk it up to practice, but I really like him and it would feel so good to know for sure if he’s gay or not. My gaydar doesn’t work very well.

  208.  #208Siena on June 17, 2010 at 8:19 pm

    So I was about to post on here to tell the story of what happened to me with CD#2 – I entered Crazyville with him today (a la Brenda’s post earlier)

    But then #1CD just called, and he’s going to take me to the nicest resort in So CA tomorrow… I feel so excited! I heard about the place about 1 year ago (it’s new) and put it out of my head (although it sounded gorgeous) because I figured I would never go there… I couldn’t even fathom stepping foot in there.

    And now he told me that this is what he has planned for us tomorrow! I feel so excited, but also so grateful and a little stunned. Yay!

    I mean, this Siren stuff really really REALLY works! Even better than I could have even imagined!


  209.  #209Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 8:21 pm

    Shannon, I feel confused. What is this about being cock-blocked and peanut butter priveleges? You CAN’T be denied Peanut Butter!!!

  210.  #210Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 8:23 pm


    Yeaaaaay! That’s awesome! I’m happy for you! I hope you have the time of your life!

    So what’s going on with CD#2?

    And will you please remind me…which one is the sexy 50-something guy from the speed dating?

  211.  #211Jilly on June 17, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    Dorothea…I love that you took your energy back!

    Brenda you are cracking me up with your playfulness with Dan ๐Ÿ˜‰

  212.  #212Tina on June 17, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    He sent several emails , apoligizing for his behaviour the other day, he wants me to have his ring back. He loves me and that he will continue “working on his issues with anger” he said he FEELS ashamed and embarressed for how he behaved, that I felt so terrorized that i needed to call for help. I told him my need for security and safety feels violated, any way were going to “talk” about it some more , he is on his way here. I’m all for learning and growing.

  213.  #213dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 8:26 pm

    well short of asking them if they are gay (which will probably offend them if they’re not), there’s no way to tell.

    potentially gay men are like any other man you like. you lean back and let them come to you. you are a siren! if he comes to you that’s how you know he’s NOT gay lol.

    what does everyone else think?

  214.  #214Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 8:26 pm


    Thank you, but now I feel embarrassed! **blushing!!** I thought I was being subtle and no one would notice! ๐Ÿ™‚ I mean, I even SAID I was leaning BACK in my comfy office chair!

  215.  #215Siena on June 17, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    Bren, sexy man is out of the picture. He WAS sexy though – but didn’t step up enough.

    I told CD#2 today that I wasn’t feeling attraction that I should be at this point and his response was to tell me that he “wants to be there for me in the good and the bad…we can work through this. Please talk to me. Please baby, don’t leave me…” etc etc.

    I’ve only been out with this guy 2 times! And the last time, we talked about insurance the whole time! (He was driving the conversation haha)

    I’m not sure if he’s crazy or if this Siren stuff is like voodoo for men. An ex from last year also called me today to tell me he’s been thinking about me.

    Is it a full moon tonight?

  216.  #216Daria on June 17, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    I think its impossible to bestow feminine energy.

    i am either being it… good for me…

    or bestowing masculine energy… blah for me unless im taking care of children or business

  217.  #217Daria on June 17, 2010 at 8:29 pm

    Siena – vote for voodoo

    when i get into siren mode (heard this is happening to dorothea too)

    random men just say hello to me, i mean like out of office buildings and everywhere gosh wow

    i love feeling that vibe

  218.  #218dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    I was dating primarily LI and cd’ing so sparsely, even with just flirting on the street.

    i am taking my energy back. no more trying to tell him he needs to take care of himself financially for me to feel good about marrying him, no more spending so much time with him that i have to worry about if his smoking around me makes me feel like smoking (i quit a few months ago and am having a hard time.) no more of that at all.

    i don’t want either of those things in my life and i won’t choose them anymore. he is a man and can figure it out on his own, if he chooses to. i am going to spend a lot more time with myself and then spend a lot more time with other men. it feels SOOO GOOD.

  219.  #219Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 8:31 pm


    There ARE other ways to find out ***evil cackling!*** We have the underwater board, the bucket of water that stays unspilled as long as your teeth can hang on to its rope…LOL.

    I guess I was feeling frustrated cuz I’ve been acquainted with him now since December, and I just see him warm toward me then distant, and I just can’t tell if I’m reading occasional attraction accurately…hmmm. I was thinking of those subtle tests….like when women used to all wear dresses and skirts, I heard of how on halloween they would toss candy on her skirt while she was sitting in her mask and costume. If it was really a girl, she would just leave her legs slightly parted and catch the candy. If it was a man, he would clamp his legs shut to catch it!

    I was trying to think if I casually said something in conversation next time I see him that would indicate….hmmm….

  220.  #220Siena on June 17, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    I like voting for voodoo! It feels so easy now, where before it felt so impossible for me to connect with men… they kept breaking up with me, and I honestly had no idea why! Now I don’t feel like I even try anymore. Yay Rori! Yay Sirens!

  221.  #221dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    Brenda you said “I mean, I even SAID I was leaning BACK in my comfy office chair!”

    i totally felt triggered and like OHHHH NOOO when you said that but LOOK!!! YOU CAUGHT YOURSELF! oh my goodness are you blossoming?!?! what am i gonna do…you’re out siren-ing me….

  222.  #222Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 8:35 pm

    I know! I could casually bring up homosexuality in conversation. Then just see how he reacts and what he says. Yeah, that would probably indicate. Thanks, I guess I just needed to think that one thru! ๐Ÿ™‚

  223.  #223dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    yeah hahah ask him how he feels about gay marriage. LOL.

  224.  #224Siena on June 17, 2010 at 8:39 pm

    Bren, you could invite him to a Cher concert and see how he reacts. In this case, I think it would be okay for you to do the inviting ๐Ÿ˜‰

    So OMG! I just remembered that an ex who I totally believe is gay (although he was a jock and never admitted it) TOLD me once that he went to the Celine Dion concert in Vegas and loved it.

    Holy crow, how could I have not seen it!!!

  225.  #225Lucy on June 17, 2010 at 8:40 pm

    “I’m not sure if he’s crazy or if this Siren stuff is like voodoo for men.”

    It is like voodoo — Men keep saying things to me like, “Did you put a spell on me? . . . Why do I feel like you are magnetized? ” etc.

  226.  #226Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 8:41 pm


    Thank you once again! I really am just funning around with Dan.


    My take on CD#2 is that he was/is ultra nervous around you. I bet if you would give him a longer chance, you would see a different side of him. I think he is worshipping you as the rockstar diva and feeling inadequate, thus his overfunctioning and neediness.

    But if it isn’t there for you, it isn’t there for you.

  227.  #227joan on June 17, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    Thanks, Sweetpea. I appreciate the welcome back. I was still reading the current posts, as well as some of the older blogs and comments, but staying in lurker mode because I felt too nervous to post. But, I’ve stuck my toe in the water a couple of times today and am about to wade in up to my neck.

    I’ve been feeling particularly upset by the most recent eletter from Rori, which Daria has graciously quoted parts of in her posts #129-131. The line that really stands out for me is:

    And they’re the mistakes that men ENCOURAGE us to make – even DARE us to make.

    Apparently, I’ve now been given the married woman’s version of Siena’s dilemma — her “dare” is to initiate emails; mine is to initiate sex. UGH!!!! We’ve been down this path before, and it was a miserable journey. I don’t want to experience that kind of active rejection and humiliation again. (The passive rejection and humiliation has been painful enough, thank you very much.)

    In Rori terms, initiating sex feels like MAJOR leaning forward. So, I tried a more leaning back approach. Before he got home earlier tonight, I took my shower and donned a black chemise, which he has previously referred to as “sexy”. But, he came in holding his hip, asked me to put some medicated rub on it, and then went to bed — not even a promise of a “raincheck”.

    I can compose feeling messages all night long, but I’m not sure how I can deliver them. Whenever the words, “I feel…” come out of my mouth, invariably, his response is that I “shouldn’t feel that way”. Are there any alternatives to use when a man has such a high resistance to the words, “I feel”?

    I feel lost. ๐Ÿ™

  228.  #228Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    Siena, that’s funny about inviting him to a Cher concert! and your past gay friend. I could tell him about my past gay friend…yeah, that would get a reaction out of him. I’d just make sure I brought it up in person.

    Lucy, That’s awesome how men are responding to you! I bet TN Man will too when he finally gets his bullheaded butt on top of your bridge for a minute, instead of underneath it! You can tell him I said so, too! ๐Ÿ™‚

    Funny, I used to be on a sex-singles site called

  229.  #229Siena on June 17, 2010 at 8:45 pm

    hmmm, Bren… maybe. I told him that I would feel good not talking for a couple of days and then see how I was feeling then.

    I’m not sure I can respect him, though. I don’t want to be with a man who I don’t completely respect, and sometimes he says things that I think are completely ridiculously lame.

    He’s not a bad guy, but… hmm… I’ll have to see how I feel after this weekend.

  230.  #230Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    Siena, that’s funny about inviting him to a Cher concert! and your past gay friend. I could tell him about my past gay friend…yeah, that would get a reaction out of him. I’d just make sure I brought it up in person.

    Lucy, That’s awesome how men are responding to you! I bet TN Man will too when he finally gets his bullheaded butt on top of your bridge for a minute, instead of underneath it! You can tell him I said so, too! ๐Ÿ™‚

    Funny, I used to be on a sex-singles site called Bears!

  231.  #231Simply Shannon on June 17, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    Brenda: I feel yucky hearing the “is he gay” thing. CDing is just for practice. It doesn’t feel wasteful of feminine energy to flirt with all men. Young, old, gay, straight, tall, short, whatever. If I’m not sure of something, I just lean back. I imagine if a guy is not gay and I ask him about homosexuality, he may feel totally turned off. I feel nervous of that conversation.

  232.  #232Siena on June 17, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    Joan, Rori wrote a post about men and sex. I’ll go looking for it. It addressed what to do when he doesn’t want sex…

  233.  #233Siena on June 17, 2010 at 8:49 pm

  234.  #234Simply Shannon on June 17, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    Day 17 of the Man Fast…

    Realizing how addicted I am to men.

    My brain is attempting to replace my man addiction with something else.

    I stopped smoking back in February. Brain is SCREAMING for a cig.

    I stopped dating A back in September. Brain is SCREAMING to contact him.

    I haven’t talked to Mr. Fab Kisser in two weeks (yes, I broke my fast). AND he just sent me an ecard which if I open he will know I read it. Fuck. Brain is SCREAMING for me to read it.

    Seriously? Is this me? I feel sad and lonely.

    And I feel sad and lonely that I feel sad and lonely. Like I shouldn’t be feeling this way. That I have a full life and yet if I’ve got something to say the people I’m likely to call are a) my mother and b) the guy I’m seeing.

    Anyone out here can “me too” because I am feeling like a dang loser! Anyone got a “me too” they can give me?

    Oh wait c) Siren Island.

    I feel isolated. And I’m talking on this freakin’ computer. ***smacks head with hand***

  235.  #235dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    thanks siena, this is something i have been thinking about a lot lately too

  236.  #236Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 9:06 pm


    Thanks for your feedback. I did catch myself and say it is good practice. My deep truth is I am very, very attracted to him. I feel hopeful that it could be a very good relationship. But I just can’t get this out of my head, and so I just can’t enjoy the relationship. If I find out he’s gay, I will know all my excitement and hope was in an imaginary relationship. I so hope it’s not imaginary! That’s more at the heart of my wanting to find out.

    And it’s not about not accepting him, either. I actually had a relationship with a gay man in the past. Turns out HIS goal was just to be a daddy, and he poked holes in the condoms…what a disappointment. I really liked that guy and thot he was falling in love with me and wanted a real relationship. No, I didn’t get pregnant, but I sure sweated it out.

    I have GOT to kill my facebook account, which is now linked to this!

  237.  #237joan on June 17, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    Thanks, Siena. I had read that post. Needless to say, the first category that I went through was the one on “Sex and Sensuality”.

    I just don’t know what to do about using the Feeling Messages. I’ve had terrible response from him when expressing how “I feel”. I was really hoping there were some alternatives that I could start with to melt away his resistance and gradually work up to using “I feel”.

  238.  #238Tina on June 17, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    Rori says showing anger is ok, we want to see their anger too. I havnt talked to him since sunday, except for a few emails about things i forgot or fell out of my bag like my keys. He has a ‘plan” about his anger issues. I dont mind angry people, its an emotion I just dont like feeling threatened by it. I need safety. did I devalue myself, will he? did i just bring my degree of difficulty down a few notches? blah.

  239.  #239dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 9:14 pm

    joan…i want to give you a big hug! oh gosh i have felt like i was in your shoes too.

    You said you don’t want to lean forward and it feels icky. Maybe putting on the sexy clothing for him felt like leaning forward to you because you did it cuz he had approved of the clothing’s sexy factor previously.

    what if you bought yourself some beautiful new sexy coordinated lingerie to wear under your regular clothes? something that makes YOU feel sexy and beautiful and special. just thinking about doing this switches my vibe to one that is inviting and sexy. oooh i feel so good

    you don’t even have to (or maybe shouldn’t) tell him you’ve got it on;) The lingerie itself isn’t the lure, it’s the way YOU feel special beautiful and sexy in a personal, secret way that sends the message to you and to him that you are ready and open to feeling sexy things.

    joan thank you so much – writing about this has created this tangible yummy feeling of confidence and worth and specialness that i am now basking in and trying to observe and feel so that i can call on this wonderful feeling at any time. i feel so grateful and excited for this random opportunity to work this out for myself right here

  240.  #240Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 9:18 pm


    I feel sad with you. I have heard the only thing lonelier than being alone is being married and lonely. ๐Ÿ™

    Try this:

    “I feel ______”

    Him: “You shouldn’t feel that way.”

    Joan: “I feel invalidated.”
    or: “I feel unheard.”
    or: “I feel so lonely right now.”
    or “I feel abandoned.”
    or “I feel isolated from you.”
    or “It feels yucky when you say that.”
    or “I feel invisible.”
    or “This feels terrible!”
    or “I feel awful!”

    My ex, Kenny, used to say, “You shouldn’t feel that way.” I just kept bombarding him with feeling messages until he got it! Now when we have a disagreement, instead of perpetuating it for two weeks, he sometimes will not call me for a few days (it’s a long distance prison relationship). Then he’ll call me back all soft and sweet.

    When he first started doing that, I thot he was playing games. But he would say, “No, babe, I wasn’t playing games. I just didn’t like the bad vibe between us, so I wanted the air to clear so we could stay on a loving vibe!”

    We are getting along better than ever!! I have a ten year history with him. I really enjoy his calls now!

    Another thing I learned from him that worked was when we were having disagreements, suddenly he would stop midstream and start laughing!

    I felt confused and asked, “What??? What’s funny?” I wasn’t sure whether to be pissed or happy!

    He’d look me straight in the eye (in the visiting room) and say, “Babe, I LOVE you! I don’t want to fight with you! You’re my partner! You’re my #1 loyal friend! Let’s just love on each other!”

    Durn it! He keeps getting back under my skin! ๐Ÿ™‚

  241.  #241dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    “If I find out heโ€™s gay, I will know all my excitement and hope was in an imaginary relationship. I so hope itโ€™s not imaginary!”

    i feel scared reading this… even if he’s the straightest dude in the world, it’s still definitely imaginary right now.

    sorry if i am misunderstanding what u mean. maybe you don’t mean imaginary relationship as rori means it. maybe you mean “imagining he is available to date women”

  242.  #242dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    him: you shouldnt feel that way

    you: i don’t want to feel that way!

    gosh this conversation could go a million ways and i feel so unsure and not equipped to help you and i feel so compelled to make everything better for you because i can see myself in this situation. maybe you’d tell him how you do need to feel, and ask him what he thinks…i hope rori will help you script this! hugs joan…

  243.  #243Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 9:25 pm


    I don’t know what I mean. Sometimes the way he looks at me from head to toe or with softness in his eyes, I feel he’s attracted to me, and it’s leading up to real dating, not just casual contact here and there. I will just let it ride. I just want real dates with him! I want to spend more time with him, not just a few minutes in public with him now and then!

  244.  #244Daria on June 17, 2010 at 9:26 pm

    I am back to feeling good… about 10? was it minutes after teh beginning of a huge family blowout…

    i was being pressured to “sit down and talk” about how i haven’t been able to pay my bills, when the discussion had started already about me not with me … while I Was present. IE i was being talked about in 3rd person in front of my face which i feel icky about and have said so plenty of times

    then to sit down i said i dont feel safe talking

    i was told whats up with this feeeling stuff… everything abut feeling. that i have to sit down and talk.

    i said no i just dont want it doesnt feel good.

    then my dad started yelling oh yeah then give me your car keys (ive been going out places to meet men and get out the house, as i had kind of been sitting in the hosue a lot the past few months… and my parents have a negative view of going out … it triggers them when i go out even in the day time)

    i dont want you to use my car anymore (i drive their old car from 10 years ago, they have new nice cars)

    im like ok yeah

    then hes like YOU dont feel good… let me catch you feeling good later tehn… let me catch you laughing or something

    this i felt upset because ive gotten the impression before that my dad doesnt want me to feel happy — as long as im not fully successful, then i shouldnt be enjoying myself … ie going out… but now it actually got to Laughing bieng mentioned

    of course i am practicing to remind myself to pleasure and do nice stuff for me and to LAUGH AND GO OUT and be happy no matter what, that i dont need to postpone it until im successful etc

    this is how my dad does things

    my mom has been depressed for 20 years


    anyway i picked up my stuff and LEFT

    until the (pretty damn recent) recent past, i would just sit donw when i was invited to… just sit down here, please sit down and talk to us… and sit there unable to speak and flooded with emotions and feeling furious and terrfiied

    this time i left upstairs… maybe my 3rd or 4th time doing so

    they im sure are triggered by it… but GOSH it really has seemed to work DESPITE THEM

    i used to believe and was taught that it was utterly disrespectful of my parents to leave and not listen when they wanted to talk to me

    but more recently ive been doing it anyway, even locking the door to my room last time on my mom

    I am not interested in being abused, even verbally or emotionally

    um so its been 10 minutes and i feel BETTER

    this is huge!

    this used to crush me!


    i have a good way to take care of myslef
    and i am building patterns of taking care of me

    im not going to sit there and tolerate being berated,

    no matter what! EVEN IF I AM DEPENDENT on a MAN.

    financially, etc etc

    I don’t want to be berated

    im saying no to this in my life

    i feel powerful

    i feel excited im finding the secret ingredient to heal my family communications



    i feel excited my mom is gonna pick up on this – cuz its voodoo

    and my behaviors are going to get picked up

    AND YES, I AM CRITICIZED for these new behaviors…


    i dont need approval or permission to take care of me!

  245.  #245Daria on June 17, 2010 at 9:31 pm

    Joan – in a way i would hope this helps you. I am and have been having terrible responses (from my parents)

    using “I feel”

    the next post is my record that, its NOT about the response

    its about HONORING me… my deep truth… the courage to speak it


    eventually, its getting picked up ANYWAY

    its effecting subtle changes and im being treated better in my family

    and this is because I FEEL BETTER ABOUT ME

    because I am EXPRESSING MYSELF

    hope this helps

    if your husband acts like a jerk like my dad… it may not (at first) get a good response

    but believe me, teh feeling messages work theuir magic… on YOU, HIM and the RELATIONSHIP


  246.  #246Sweetpea on June 17, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    Joan – I don’t know if you can make this work or not, but I was listening to an interview of Rori’s. The lady she was interviewing mentioned saying “I’ve noticed _____ about myself.” When you do this, you have to make sure it’s about you, not directed toward him….just like w/ feeling messafes. Do you think something like “I’m noticing I’m sexually frustrated” – something like that? I haven’t actually tried it, but maybe it could help you somehow.

  247.  #247Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 9:32 pm


    Another very powerful tool Rori has is to just slide to the floor, allowing your literal body language to express your pain. If he socked you in the mouth, you’d fall to the floor, right? When you feel that hurt, let him see the pain in your heart, not by voicing it directly, but by sliding to the floor and putting your hand over your heart. Let your body speak purposefully for you, in a way that he will listen.

    I used to say, “I feel hurt”, but I learned from Rori that sounds like blame. Blame shuts the typical man down. Our goal is to have open, ever deepening, communication. So maybe, “I feel hit by a ton of bricks.” wouldn’t sound as much like blame. Subtle diff, I know. Or something like, “I feel like I did the day I found out Santa Claus wasn’t real.” Whatever works for your personality and experience, you know? Just be creative. Create a word picture of how you feel. Do you feel like an abandoned organ with yellowed keys? Do you feel like a fallen tree in the forest? Do you feel like a starving puppy?

    Another related tool Rori gives is to get alone and then crumble to the floor. Something about putting yourself in that vulnerable position brings your deepest feelings front and center. Then you can examine them, get in touch with them, process them.

    Feel free to journal, vent, cry, and pound here!!

  248.  #248Daria on June 17, 2010 at 9:34 pm

    I meant the previous post.

    I’ve being told to “stop this bullshit with feelings” and “so what if you feel that way this is not about your feelings”.. and even “we don’t say that in our language” and etc etc etc

    nonetheless… I FEEL STRONGER as I express it more…

    and the walking away when it feels bad… instead of staying to be abused…


    it felt terrifying

    but look at me feeling GREAT now 10 minutes later

    in the past i would STILL BE DOWNSTAIRS, only 15 minutes in an hour or 2 long verbal/emotional abuse/berating session

  249.  #249dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    daria i felt very triggered reading all that about your parents just now because i have a belief that parents are entitled to abusive or destructive behaviors that affect their children.

    what you’re doing really is voodoo! and i totally get criticized for such new behaviors. and it feels awful and it shakes me to get criticized.

  250.  #250Daria on June 17, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    OHHH yes… falling on knees, even when im by myself, really helps my mind/body KNOW that I am now HONORING and feeling that feeling –

    thanks Brenda… I just recently “re”tried it and it worked to feel some anger that was stuck in my body and I was feeling tired and grumpy because of it

  251.  #251Daria on June 17, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    dorothea – welcome to the club – have a hug with me – i believed parents were entitled to abusive and destructive behaviors too! but somehow i dont believe that anymore


  252.  #252Sweetpea on June 17, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    Daria – when you said ” i felt upset because ive gotten the impression before that my dad doesnt want me to feel happy — as long as im not fully successful, then i shouldnt be enjoying myself…” I thought -maybe that’s why Daria is resistant to marketing – do you think you’re resistant to letting yourself be successful? Maybe self-sabotaging in an “in your face” kind of way.

  253.  #253dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 9:40 pm

    wow i just realized i have this belief by getting triggered by your comment about the scene with them. and sinking into the trigger and not just reacting to it on a superficial level (saying oh daria is a bad daughter). thanks trigger!

    somehow i don’t believe that anymore either. well maybe a little lol. rough childhood, etc. i’m only 25..stuff takes time..workin on it…feeling good right now! thank you!

  254.  #254Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 9:41 pm


    Sorry to hear you are in a ruff living situation. I felt so much happier after I no longer had to live with my family in adulthood. It really is emotionally unhealthy to constantly be exposed to those childhood triggers, the very things you are trying to heal from.

    I feel happy for you that you are succeeding with honoring yourself and using feeling messages…whether they like them or not!

    I had a major breakthrough with my Dad the day he was yelling at me about 20 minutes straight when I said softly, “I don’t feel very loved right now.”

  255.  #255Daria on June 17, 2010 at 9:42 pm

    yes… I felt A LOT LESS SHAKY! to get criticized this time, than the last time, etc

    last time i left and locked the door and wouldn’t open it! even when i was asked nicely ‘ just to talk!

    yeah right!

    10 minutes later i felt much better opened the door and my mom actually had brought me something and we were able to interact no problem


    now my dad gets more intense, sometimes i feel scared he’s gonna pursue me and hit me or something, but i am all prepped to jump out my balcony if need be (no worries i have a side wall and did it a lot as a teenager)

    tho i’ve ran out there, i haven’t had to really jump out

    i dono

    just seems like

    although they are all offended mentally, emotionally it totally diffuses the situation to remove myself

    right now theyre downstairs enjoying the world cup!

    and i feel perfectly cool going to join them!

  256.  #256Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 9:44 pm

    Kenny has been in prison about 21 years, and he is happier and laughing more than about anyone I know! He has truly learned the secret to finding joy in sorrow!

    I feel angry when I hear your father telling you you’re not supposed to feel happy when you are not “successful”. How ridakulous!

    I hope you smile and laff all day tomorrow, just to spite em! Daria, you rock!

    Thanks for sharing!

  257.  #257Daria on June 17, 2010 at 9:49 pm

    Brenda – yes I was able to start crying a couple months ago… at first my dad was freaking out about it but after a few times it was accepted

    i also told him I DO want to be loved unconditionally,

    because he said he loves the cat unconditionally, but because he loves me more its not unconditional, etc

    i said I DO want to be loved unconditional

    i feel glad i was able to say that

    i should say that these are not your “tv land” family drama,

    think wild YELLING ACCUSING, jumping around, calling the other person names, flailing , HOW COULD YOU

    YOU ARE [insert dramatic toni award winning epithets here}

    ill show you

    ohhh especially


    and etc etc

    — not the kind of stuff that feels safe to me.

    I am committed to not tolerating being abused…

    and I feel like i’m YAY making progress to feeling safe to communicate with my family… BECAUSE i am no longer willing to tolerate Bad feeling communication

  258.  #258Daria on June 17, 2010 at 9:50 pm

    Brenda – I don’t think they will be spited, because with my great job of not tolerating, everyone is already feeling good… im probably gonna go down there and watch tv with them now!

  259.  #259Brenda on June 17, 2010 at 9:52 pm

    Go, Daria, Go!


  260.  #260joan on June 17, 2010 at 9:53 pm

    Dorothea — Thanks. The leaning forward (initiating) wouldn’t feel “icky” if I had any track record of success with it. What I don’t want is the rejection that I’ve experienced previously in those situations. I’m already the one who is “ready and open to feeling sexy things”. He’s the one who is indifferent or disinterested (or whatever).

    Brenda — I’m glad that the “I feel” bombs worked for you, but I can’t foresee that with him anytime soon. I can see/feel him shut down whenever I utter those words. In fact, I suspect he’s doing his own version of the Noise Tool. ๐Ÿ˜›

    Right now, my intuition tells me that using the words “I feel” is not the way to go. I don’t want to create more conflict and distance. I guess I was hoping there was some other way to ease into it. I wish I could afford even Rori’s ebook because maybe I could find a tool other than Feeling Messages to begin the transition.

    Quite some time ago, I found a resource that had stated that “I feel” were the worst words you could use with a man, and that rings truer to my experience with hubby. From what I remember, the rationale was that a man wants to fix things, and he can’t fix your feelings — it makes him feel impotent, and that is SO NOT what I’m trying to achieve. Unfortunately, I lost my connection right after I landed on that site and by the time I got everything rebooted, I had lost my browsing history, too. I never got to find out what were the suggestions in lieu of “I feel” and I’ve never been able to find that site again.

    OK, Sirens, it’s late and I’m tired. Maybe I can have sexy dreams at least.

  261.  #261Lucy on June 17, 2010 at 10:00 pm

    I have a question. I just reread one of Rori’s eletters about telling men the truth.

    Here’s my problem: The TRUTH, when I’m emailing new guys from online dating sites . . . well, I have no problem telling the truth in feeling messages as we are emailing back and forth about stuff UNTIL they start talking about meeting.

    The TRUTH is I don’t really feel GOOD about meeting most of them but am agreeing to meet them because I’m “supposed” to.

    So I’m struggling with being honest in my communication when making plans to meet. For awhile I was writing, “I feel interested in meeting” (in response to them asking) but I really DON’T feel interested.

    And I can’t very well say, “I’m not really interested in meeting you, but I will do it anyway.”

    I have a sneaky suspicion that the answer to my question is: get yourself to the point where you truly ARE interested.

    What do you think?

    And if that is the answer, what do I say to men while I am still working on getting myself to that point?

    Thanks for any insights anyone can share.

  262.  #262Daria on June 17, 2010 at 10:03 pm

    Him: wanna meet up

    Lucy-me: that MIGHT (lower caps) feel fun

    hey never know right? it might right?


  263.  #263dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 10:07 pm

    hehe but the truth is right there in what you said …. “sometimes i feel so reluctant to follow through with an actual meeting…but i don’t want to be closed off like that. being open to meeting new people feels like a priority for me right now.”

  264.  #264dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 10:08 pm

    oh daria i like your short and sweet version too

  265.  #265dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 10:10 pm

    sitting on facebook’s homepage seeing what everyone is doing and saying makes me feel ANXIOUS and UNEASY and worth less than i should be telling myself i am.

    holy cow i hate facebook.

  266.  #266Lucy on June 17, 2010 at 10:10 pm

    Oh, thanks so much, Daria and Dorothea! I like both of your ideas!

    Daria, I felt SO DEEPLY SAD reading about your dad saying he loves you conditionally. ๐Ÿ™

  267.  #267Daria on June 17, 2010 at 10:11 pm

    joan – ohh i feel terribly triggered to think of avoiding feeling messages

    i also feel a bit ignored as i did a lot of explaining on why feeling messages would work – to make a woman feel empowered herself

    i feel kind of resentful now

    i feel disappointed imagining a woman going in search of a way to share something other than her feelings


    if it were me, i would start with the small good feelings… like rori advises…

    i started with mm… Im feeling hungry

    I feel hot

    and i feel thirsty


    magically those attracted guywhohadababy and my guy friends to me, becasue I DID Land squarely in feminine mode (my voice tone even shifted and i HEARD IT MYSELF)

    ohhh what is the message of this trigger

    why is this showing up for me?

    i feel ANGRY

    i feel angry when feeling messages, rori’s work, etc are not SEEEN for the marvelous voodoo they are

    why am i feeling this way about this right now?

    im identifying with this

    i feel like I’m not being seen


    tell me more

    i feel frustrated when a man doesn’t see me for me right away

    and starts “testing” me if im a prostitute or something


    i feel furious about that

    are you serious?? that’s why I’m mad



    and then i play along and don’t give him the clear answers he’s looking for becasue i feel pist at him for judging and i don’t want to tell him the clear things that would show him judgy self that im not

    like when men are judgemental about a woman having to be educated i hide that im educated because i feel pist that they are judging me on that, even tho i would pass

    i feel jugemental MYSELF! and i feel icky that people are bieng judged on these things that feel on the middle to surface (mantle) of a person to me


    i feel angry at that

  268.  #268joan on June 17, 2010 at 10:11 pm

    (((((Daria))))) I’m 51 years old, and you are light years ahead of me in dealing with autocratic parents. Every time I go to their house, I feel about 15 again.

    Wow, things move quickly here. Thanks, everyone. I only got to glance over the other replies, but I’ll go back over them tomorrow. My eyelids are getting very heavy.

  269.  #269Daria on June 17, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    Lucy – haha

    he didnt know what he was talking about hehe. also he was quiet after that so perhaps he got it on some level

  270.  #270Daria on June 17, 2010 at 10:13 pm

    JOAN – HUGS!!! on the autocratic parents!

  271.  #271Daria on June 17, 2010 at 10:16 pm

    dang how did JOAN do the bold hug! i love it !!!


  272.  #272dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 10:17 pm

    daria i don’t go disclosing my wonderful resume of personal qualifications to men either. i feel freaking pissed feeling like my job or education is something to woo them with. i know i am well educated so i take this to my own heart and hopefully exude intelligence and thoughtfulness. the combo quality of intelligence and thoughtfulness are the attractive thing here, not my degree.

    sometimes i feel scared i am coming off very ditzy to men (it happens) and i want to somehow drop into the convo that i have this really interesting and nerdy degree, or that i have a fancy title for my job. i am working on just knowing that no matter how ditzy i come off, i don’t need to run after myself with a broom and dustpan displaying my credentials.

  273.  #273Daria on June 17, 2010 at 10:20 pm

    Dorothea omg i would never think you were smart enough to have a degree because you talk so ghetto! (don’t you know ghetto people are automatically disqualified from being smart?)

    don’t you know you have to walk to a certain building and pay a certain place money and write certain stuff on certain peieces of paper and then take one home to be INteelyjenT?

  274.  #274dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 10:22 pm

    sometimes i feel if i share with people that i have a degree in such and such, it knocks me down a few pegs like oh i’m some intellectual snobby white rich girl

    thats not true at all and i feel terrified of being seen that way. i want people to see me! and i want to be seen as the transformation i made happen for myself froom the poor life and circumstances i was born into all the way to everything i can boast now.

  275.  #275dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 10:23 pm


  276.  #276Daria on June 17, 2010 at 10:25 pm

    this girl i used to be freind’s boyfriend at the time said that to me… wow daria i would have never guessed you were smart because you talk so ghetto


    this is a huge trigger por moi!

  277.  #277joan on June 17, 2010 at 10:26 pm

    OK, I can’t go to bed until I correct this.

    Daria — I’m sorry you felt ignored. I never saw your post until I had finished composing and posting my comment. The page doesn’t update while I’m composing.

    It’s not that I don’t want to ever use Feeling Messages. It’s just that I need to find a different way to do it for now. Thank you for the suggestions about “I feel hungry”, etc. It might work that way — a sort of slow desensitization to whatever it is about those two words that triggers him. I’m thinking of it as drops of water dripping on a stone and slowly reshaping it versus a tsunami hitting and pushing the stone somewhere far off into the distance.

    (I’m even thinking I might do some surrogate EFT for whatever it is about those particular words that trigger him.)

  278.  #278Daria on June 17, 2010 at 10:27 pm

  279.  #279Daria on June 17, 2010 at 10:29 pm

    joan! Surrogate EFT YAY i feel happy youre’ into EFT too!

    hey – my guess as to what triggers him, or seems to,

    is that it opens INTIMACY and maybe he’s been hiding that….

    RORI says often lack of sex is from ANGER, so maybe he’s having a lot of anger stuffed up and

    opening up intimacy, even a touch of it threatens that he will lose control of that anger

  280.  #280Daria on June 17, 2010 at 10:29 pm

    PS no worries about triggering me, I am now using the triggers to look within me! hehe

  281.  #281Daria on June 17, 2010 at 10:35 pm

    I feel so much better about myself and energized right now! like i went on a great date!


  282.  #282joan on June 17, 2010 at 10:54 pm

    Daria — Well, the lack of sex may be from anger, but I assure you it is NOT from him stuffing it. He never had an angry feeling he didn’t express — more like a rageaholic. Truly, the explanation I expressed earlier — that he can’t “fix” my feelings (beyond his control) — is the closest I’ve ever come to understanding it. I’m really going to have to do some intensive searching again for that other site.

    I’m the anger stuffer, and I’ve lived years in depression to prove it. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    Depression is anger without enthusiasm.

    So far, the only HTML coding that I’ve found works here is bold and italic. Too bad we don’t have an option to preview before we post.

    Geesh, this place is addictive. (((((Hugs))))) and good night.

  283.  #283dorothea on June 17, 2010 at 10:54 pm

  284.  #284Daria on June 17, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    Joan – goodnite. I feel triggered and sad! Sounds like my fam. Rage dad and depressed mom. I feel afraid! Feeling messages are everything. For our self and attracting. Intimacy. No matter what the in the moment response… I am feeling sad and scared and triggered… I love my feelings! I feel helpless when I have watched my mom stuff anger and look numb and removed and not seeming to know why. I choose to believe I can inspire her and my family by expressing my feelings. I feel sad. I love my sadness… And that feels like more sadness and Iove my more sadness and that feels like filiing up with air. Goiing hnnnn. With a smile. I love my filling up w air going h
    bnn with a smile. Hmhmhhh : )

  285.  #285Alicia on June 17, 2010 at 11:27 pm

    Mary I like the heart!

  286.  #286Alicia on June 17, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    Has anyone tried speed dating?

    I think it would feel fun.. interesting.. maybe crazy.. hahaha.. But having 20 men all at once.. would be trigger city.. If you have.. LET ME KNOW! ๐Ÿ™‚

  287.  #287Daria on June 17, 2010 at 11:37 pm

    Alicia – Siena has tried it, and Lizzie is getting ready to try it now!

  288.  #288Alicia on June 17, 2010 at 11:54 pm

    I have been feeling angry for days but, I’m more fight then I am flight. Actually, I do both. Raisng my voice seems normal.. I do it when I’m happy or mad, sometimes I just feel expressive.

    (( MY friends in the past.. were just self absorbed.. and I think I use to self abandoned myself and choose people that were never there for me.. but I would always be there for,,, even if meant giving me up or having no boundries and now they are ALL dropping off.. Hopefully cause I’m healthier )))

    Well, My very non expressive shy adopted sister (she’s aware she wont coverse with anyone) adoptive sister thinks I’m sooo loud. Like above libary level is “loud”. I tapped her anger when she name called to me… and I went off… Then in the first time in all her life she yelled and threw a cup across the room… I thought she made progress actually.. lol.. Except there is still some tension..

    I’m ready to be normal and talk and she is still wanting to passive aggressive, by ignoring me, walking into another room and texting me awful things.. SOooo immature.. but, I refuse to engage in the antics…

    I did have a break thru.. “adopted family dad” called and said. we want you to stay.. He said has been married for 34 years and people have a few knock down drag out and then things settle and you realize why you are together..

    So that was sooooo calm, cool, logical and collected compared to what I’m use to with my bio- dad… Then he said… sister didn’t choose words that really “meant” truth or anything. She was just saying words that she thought everyone else meant.. That felt awful, icky, and bad… She brought up things when we were like 8 years old.. Told me I was selfish and ungrateful… even as kids.. (Seriously? what with bringing up things from 20 years ago.. my step mom did same thing) But….. she was an only child.. So she couldn’t even see the truth was I was always coming and doing for her… Geeees.

    Well I felt pissed! becuase I had just picked up and cleaned her and her boyfriends dirty dishes and took care of her cat.. and I do alot of charity… SO I was pisssssed.. Like how dare you.. I’m the one taking care of everything..

    Then I realized maybe her words are just a mirror of her.. and I reminded her that I woke up in the middle of the night (instincts) and found HER lost animal…… Geesh!

    If that’s selfish and ungrateful then okay then…. Anyway, now she is putting up a passive aggressive silent wall and I’m sooo over it. Like get on with life already… but, I seem to be feeling better even when she is being a brat.. lol… I mean she ran sacked my room to take back some lotion she gave me.. Seriously? I’m just moving on and letting it go.. ๐Ÿ™‚

  289.  #289Alicia on June 17, 2010 at 11:55 pm

    Daria – THANKS!

    Siena and Lizzie did you like speed dating??

  290.  #290Sweetpea on June 18, 2010 at 12:09 am

    Alicia – I’ve been going through the passive-aggressive stuff w/ my adopted sister the last couple of days too. I hate p/a! She’s been somewhat opposite of yours though – she won’t talk to me at all. Has just done everything she can to get under my skin. She had me up til 5 a.m. the first night slamming doors, the refrigerator. And took some stuff back she had given me too. Argh! I feel angry thinking about it!
    We were finally starting to talk again tonight when out dogs got in a fight & she got between them & got bit. I had to take her to the ER… At least we’re talking again now I guess.
    I haven’t had any experience dealing w/ this since I started using Rori’s tools. Can you give me any helpful advice?

  291.  #291Daria on June 18, 2010 at 12:34 am

    Ahh I feel trigerred. I’m an only child. Yay for only children. I stand for only lonely children. I’m here for u Daria ! To play with an talk to and laugh with and stand up for u!

  292.  #292mary on June 18, 2010 at 2:10 am

    i think that circular dating is about not conforming.
    conforming to our environment is built into our DNA.
    and when we spend time with one person, we get used to that person’s environment. so used to it that we begin to crave it.

    when we circular date, the environment is changing so much that it’s impossible to conform.

    i’ve heard guys say that it was too confusing for them. they couldn’t do it for any length of time.

    i think that’s one of the reasons it works.

    if you’re not getting used to the environment of a particular guy, it’s WAY more easy to be objective about him. and keep hold of the reigns of your own horse.

    don’t you think?

  293.  #293mary on June 18, 2010 at 2:15 am

    facebook is enfringing on our privacy and i feel upset about it. the blog is no longer a safe place! it’s now a public blog to share with everyone.

    ohhhhhh… i’ve felt sad about it all day.

  294.  #294mary on June 18, 2010 at 2:17 am

    and if you’re not conforming because the landscape is constantly changing, you keep yourself on track. because you have only your own environment!


    it does work.

  295.  #295lucy on June 18, 2010 at 2:27 am

    mary. what’s the deal with fb? how is it affecting the blog???

  296.  #296Ankita on June 18, 2010 at 3:08 am

    Wow…. Such a funny incident happened..!!

    A guy aged 44, married, sent me a mail on fropper, “Hi, I am Neel.. Looking for a sincere Gf… If yes, call/sms on xxxxxxx. I will take care. Bye.”

    I replied, “Sorry, married men not allowed, It’s written in my profile… And well, you are married, 43, and looking for a SINCERE Gf..???? I feel amused… Wonder if your wife is on lookout for guys too….!!???”

  297.  #297Ankita on June 18, 2010 at 3:10 am


    i feel like why Mary is saying this is coz, as we do see, some people do like it on fb, and then it gets posted on their wall, and so the other people do see it, which unfortunately, comprises guys too…

    Perhaps that’s what she means…!! I hope I got it right….

  298.  #298Ankita on June 18, 2010 at 3:13 am


    I like sped dating, though, the only thing am worried about is, how will I manage my time!!!???? ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ˜‰ ๐Ÿ˜€

  299.  #299Ankita on June 18, 2010 at 3:18 am

    Hey (bold) daria, plz tell me how this bold and italic works down here????

  300.  #300Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 4:01 am

    Joan, RE: #246 – I DO know what you’re talking about, being resistant to I feel statements. This is non-Rori opinion here…

    My observation is MOST people are raised to suppress their emotions, and especially boys. I bet if we could see a video tape of your husband’s childhood, we would hear echos of his words, with his parents telling him, “You shouldn’t feel that way” and “Stop crying! Boys don’t cry!” and “Wipe that grin off your face!” and “Stop yelling!”

    You don’t like the suggestions to act out your feelings physically? Then there are the “I like…”; “I don’t like…”; “I want…”; “I don’t want…” statements.

    I felt resistance from Kenny at first, too. He would say stuff like, “Why does this always have to be about what YOU feel? What about what I feel?”

    Rori says when we unzip our hearts, it creates a safe environment for a man to enter that sometimes-scary emotional realm. Would it work if you transitioned there by trying to explain to him logically your feelings? It’s not what Rori recommends…I’m just trying to troubleshoot with you here.

    One thing I’ve done with resistant people in the past is say something like, “There’s been a car wreck. I was thrown from the car, and I’m laying here in the snow with a broken leg. Emotionally speaking, that is how i feel.”

    Joan, how do you feel about those ideas? ๐Ÿ™‚

  301.  #301Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 4:09 am


    My tendency is to fight back when things get heated.

    I keep reminding myself Rori’s most powerful tool is to walk away.

    If things get so bad that it is damaging you and no progress is being made, sometimes the best thing for a relationship, even a marriage, is to get away for a few weeks. I’m not talking about divorce here. But sometimes men take us for granted. And sometimes when two people are apart, clarity comes in.

    If you feel you are getting nowhere, try staying with a friend for a few weeks. If he asks why, you could say, “I feel ignored.” If he shuts down, cuz he is resistant to feeling messages, so be it. End the conversation.

    The next day, if he asks you to come home, you could say, “No, sorry. I love you, but I feel ignored.”

    You could try this every day or two until he listens. When we distance ourselves from a loved one, it gets their attention.

    Please let us know how it goes.

  302.  #302Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 4:22 am


    Here’s yet another thot…as I read along your posts, I am increasingly reminded of my father, who was also a rageaholic.

    I found the trick is to get inside their armor. The anger is a huge, thick shield for intense inner pain. Anger is comprised of pain. I also dealt with mentally handicapped, emotionally disturbed kids at a past job.

    I learned that ASKING QUESTIONS is sometimes the ticket.

    For example:

    “Are you feeling angry?”
    “YES, I’M FEELING ANGRY!!!! !@#$% !@#$%*!!!!!!”
    “Why are you feeling angry?”
    Then, depending on where they go, I might say something like, “You seem resentful.”
    The key is to say these things softly, like soothing a wild bear. If you say it in an accusing or angry tone, it will make things worse.

    Another way to word it is, “I can tell you’re angry.”
    Sometimes they calm down quickly just having their anger acknowledged.

    I’m so accustomed to dealing with irrate, angry, emotionally abusive people that sometimes I don’t even recognize the trigger, much less run away from it. I’m getting there, tho, requiring that anyone who wants to stay in my life treat me with respect.

    I hope you get treated with respect soon. And, I hope that next time he triggers YOUR anger, you find the self-respect and courage to VOICE it,
    “I feel angry!”
    “You shouldn’t feel that way.”
    “Do I have a right to feel and think?”

    I know it sounds kind of like a therapist approach, and you’re not supposed to be his therapist, but hey, if it helps turn him into a teddy bear, it’s worth a try, right? ๐Ÿ™‚ (((Hugs!)))

  303.  #303Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 4:25 am

    It’s easy to see this has triggered a whole host of emotion in me. This is a lot of the basis of my emotional damage from childhood.

    My self-talk when I am treated with rage and anger is, “Ho-hum, yet another person hating me for being alive. So what else is new?”

    It was just how I dealt (partially) with anger to keep myself from completely closing down. I had to project some sort of thick skin, so I guess I used apathy.

    Little by little, I am learning to deal with it much differently. I am determined to have healthy, connected, intimate relationships with my loved ones, or not at all.

  304.  #304Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 4:31 am


    I’m glad you’re seeking solutions. Please don’t allow yourself to stay in this damaging relationship if it doesn’t change.

    I’m 46 now, and I entered adulthood believing I was an ugly, horrible, stupid person. I didn’t know who I was, and I was completely out of touch with my thoughts and feelings.

    It has been a very long struggle to learn who I am and to come into my RIGHT to not only possess thoughts and feelings, but to know I have the RIGHT to EXPRESS those thoughts and feelings.

    Please don’t allow him to intimidate you into suppressing those feelings any longer. My parents were also comparable to what both Joan and Daria related. It pretty much destroyed my Mom. She is now 78, and she still doesn’t know who she is. Her identity and joy of life just eroded over the 25 years they were together.

  305.  #305Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 4:37 am


    Your description of CDing is beautiful!


    I saw thumbs up icons appear for facebook on each entry here yesterday. I clicked on one out of curiosity, and it linked this blog with my facebook profile. I think I’m going to quit profile. It’s too public. I want my life to be under my control, not every scam and spam artist in the world.

  306.  #306Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 4:38 am

    Tune into the inner critic

    “A critic is a legless man who teaches running.”

    — Channing Pollock

    Are you aware of your inner critic? We all have this voice that tells us we are bad, stupid, clumsy, cowardly…. Although its intent is to help us succeed, the harsh self talk of our critic just serves to drain our energy and lower our morale and immune system.

    To defuse the inner critic, we need to recognize when the critic is speaking. We need to know that this voice does not necessarily speak for who we really are. This is an old pattern that may no longer be serving us. We want to open to the possibility that the words are not likely true. We can ask ourselves, “Are these words helpful?”

    “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”

    — Eleanor Roosevelt

    “Abilities wither under faultfinding, blossom with encouragement.”

    — Donald A. Laird

    “Never react emotionally to criticism. Analyze yourself to determine whether it is justified. If it is, correct yourself. Otherwise, go on about your business.”

    — Norman Vincent Peale

  307.  #307Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 7:51 am


    BTW, the reason I find it effective to tap into HIS emotions from the past is that until he begins to find healing for his own emotional damage, he will be unable to drop his resistance to how he’s damaging you and not allowing you to feel free to express your emotions.

    Once you can get him to identify his anger (ie, “You seem angry”; “Are you angry?”, etc), then you can start identifying his other emotions, (“You’re happy!”; “Do you feel sad?”, etc.) As that sort of thing becomes more familiar AND SAFE to him, maybe he can start to acknowledge when you feel, be it positive or negative.

    When the relationship is out of sorts, once you have let him know how you feel, whether or not he likes for you to express your feelings, let the ball & chain of the relationship drop in HIS lap. Let HIM fix the relationship. That’s HIS job.

    If he doesn’t fix it, over time? Protect your precious heart…get out. At least that’s my view after seeing my mother destroyed by my Dad.

  308.  #308Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 7:59 am

    Where’s Heartbeat these days? ๐Ÿ™‚

  309.  #309Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 8:54 am

    Where’s everybody today? ๐Ÿ™‚ You California people wake up yet?

  310.  #310tinque on June 18, 2010 at 8:55 am

    I’m here Brenda, reading in the sidelines. I have to leave though.

  311.  #311Siena on June 18, 2010 at 8:56 am

    muahhahahaa, I’m here Bren. But I have conference calls all day long and so can’t hang out. Ugh! I miss heartbeat and goodheart too! Where did they go!?

  312.  #312Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 9:23 am


  313.  #313Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 9:39 am

    Brenda, I don’t see any facebook links on here. Did Rori fix it or something??? It would be awful if my posts were linked to my fb page!! Are they???

  314.  #314dorothea on June 18, 2010 at 9:39 am

    i’m here but have a pedicure, an appearance at the office, and a greek festival in my future.

  315.  #315Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 9:40 am

    Maybe heartbeat and goodheart are making wedding plans!

  316.  #316Siena on June 18, 2010 at 9:52 am

    Lucy, you can check your FB page’s profile to see if there’s anything there about this blog. I doubt there is, especially if you’ve never “liked” any page.

    But if someone else has “liked” this page, then their friends will see this page… but they won’t know who you are.

  317.  #317Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 9:52 am


    LOL! That would be great if they were making wedding plans! But I’m sure if they were, they would have invited all of us! ๐Ÿ™‚

    I don’t think it will link to YOUR facebook unless you clicked on the “thumbs up” icon. I deactivated my facebook today. I feel really vulnerable on the net and I must be crazy for all the personal stuff I put on this site. Sure is helping me process and grow, tho!

  318.  #318dorothea on June 18, 2010 at 10:05 am

    i would feel mortified if someone i know found me here. i think about this all the time.

  319.  #319Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 10:11 am

    Thanks, Siena and Brenda. Sounds complicated. Brenda, I don’t see any thumbs on the blog! Do you???

  320.  #320Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 10:13 am

    OH! I see — right at the top of the article, under the title. Right?

  321.  #321gina on June 18, 2010 at 10:30 am

    Ladies!!! I have a creepy man situation!!!

    Back in December, I wrote here about a man, G, who was apparently very wealthy, powerful and accomplished. He talked about marrying me on Date 3 and was very eager to get me to commit. At first, I was excited about his vision of our town home downtown, and a second home in the suburbs/country. but not enough to ignore how stifled I felt by him. He would basically punish me if he thought I was out trying to attract men, when really I was just out to dinner. That “relationship” lasted 1 week, haven’t interacted since. But then, last month, I saw him on the street cause he was moving into my apartment building!!! Which felt weird, but he explained that his company is temporarily paying for his housing – they originally had him at place down the street, but he is considering buying a condo in this area, so he wanted a taste of what that lifestyle would be like (I live in a high rise downtown). He sometimes shows interest in me romantically, by asking invasive questions, like “I saw your light on at 2 in the morning. What were you doing up at that hour?” I said “what were YOU doing up at that hour?” And he said, “Actually more than once, I’ve seen your light on in the middle of the night. I’m hardly ever up late, but every time I am, your light is on. It’s kind of weird.” And then the rest of the conversation is pretty normal and nice – I’ve spoken to him as a friend about other men that I am dating. He’s given insight about how to move forward career-wise (although, he previously made it clear that he would prefer for me to stay home and nurture our 6 kids). These conversations have happened on the 2 visits I have made to his apartment. He invited me to check out his place – I hung out and talked with him, we started a movie, I fell asleep – and when I woke up at 4 am, he was snoring SO LOUD so i just got up and left without searching around for my shoes. The second time, I returned to get my shoes. He had his guns out on the coffee table. I felt uncomfortable, and I said “you just have your guns out?” as he was handling a pistol wiping it down. He apologized and put them away. We had a pleasant conversation, he knew I was off to go on a date, and I got my shoes and left. He emailed that he enjoys my company and that we should hang out again soon. then last night I went to the salsa bar I usually go to on Thursdays, and he was there!!! Everyone is dressed sexy and pretty casual, but G was wearing a hefty sports coat, and was sensually puffing on a cigar all by himself. When I saw him initially, he darted his eyes away and acted like he hadn’t seen me yet. A couple of minutes later, I caught his eye and gave him a friendly wave. He gave me sex eyes over the top of his glass. Then I told my friends how weird I felt about it, and one of them was like “Whoa, Are you talking about the guy in the sports coat with the cigar??? we noticed him – we were talking about him when we were dancing over there (she and her husband). Then she said “honey, show them how he was smoking his cigar” and her husband did an imitation that was HILARIOUS – slowly puffing a cigar and exhaling into the air in a very deliberate fellatio-looking way. Her husband had said to her while they were dancing “Hey check out the Candy Man over there – Look at how he’s smoking that cigar!!”

    For the next hour, G perched himself different places and just watched me. He didn’t interact with other people, dance, or anything. He just watched and drank. Then, I made eye contact with him and looked at him like WTF? And then I didn’t see him anymore.

    Side note: the whole time I was on a date with a guy who is being very cool. I was dancing with lots of men (some who are very sexy) and he let me do my thing, and he was just there hanging out with my friends. When sports was on for a bit, he was preoccupied with that, and I went off dancing without a worry. And the rest of the time, I totally felt at ease at ease with him.

    Back to the story about G: he saw that I was on a date, but I don’t think that explains his bizarre behavior – he never even said “hi” and he was clearly fixated. eww. What do I do with this concern??

    But then, i guess it’s possible that he believes we are going to get married, and so he thought that by coming to Embargo, I was going to be super turned on by his presence and attention.

    I feel scared just staying in feeling-mode, I feel anxiety, like I need to use my brain to determine the danger and a solution. But okay, if I don’t use my brain, and only focus on how scared I am, I am actually only mildly scared – I have been far more scared of creepier men in the past. Maybe I’m not so scared, cuz those other men never physically harmed me (only harassed me), so my expectation is that he won’t follow through, even though he’s showing warning signs of trouble. But, yuck, I don’t like that line of thinking. I hate how I feel that it’s outside of my control.

    I have a skin picking problem – I compulsively pick at my skin to “fix” imperfections. It sucks and I’m trying to heal whatever it is that causes me to self destruct. i read that the french have name for young girls who pick excessively – and it refers to girls who want to avoid being looked at as sex objects, so they self-sabotage their beauty. It’s a way of avoiding being a woman, a way of staying a “girl.” That totally rings true for me. And Creepy guy situations validate the fear of being as beautiful as possible.

  322.  #322Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 10:43 am


    If he asks you out again, what are you going to do?

  323.  #323Simply Shannon on June 18, 2010 at 10:45 am

    Gina: Next time I saw him, I’d say “That night at Embargo, I felt really weird. I don’t want to feel uncomfortable around you. What do you think?”

    As for skin-picking, I do that too. (ahh… I feel embarrassed and tense.) I’m finding I do it the most when I feel anxious and bored. Mostly when I’m bored because then I am looking for something to do. It’s gotten better now that I recognize the boredom factor (same thing happened with smoking – quit since Feb.) but I still do it when I get a bump. I can’t just leave it alone. Yuck. My arms feel tingly. I feel embarrassed.

  324.  #324Simply Shannon on June 18, 2010 at 10:49 am

    An email excerpt from Terry MacDonald:

    I determined that I wanted an honest man, but after my sorry experiences it occurred to me I might be living a pipe dream.

    But, after learning about the Law of Attraction, I wrote an affirmation:

    “I am happily married to a loyal, loving, successful, *honest,* fun man.”

    I brought the affirmation to life in my imagination, but then it occurred to me: I wanted a man with specific qualities, but did I even possess those qualities myself?

    The honest answer was, not really.

    I had played it fast and loose from time to time with the truth. So, what right did I have to expect a guy to be honest?

    I decided right then and there that in order to truly deserve the type of man I wanted, I had to be the woman he’d want. In short, I started to play it straight. I stopped making mealy-mouthed excuses when I didn’t want to go somewhere or do something. I stopped telling white lies that I told myself “didn’t matter” but did.

    – – – – –

    I never thought about it that way before. When I don’t tell the truth (Oh I’m fine, everything’s fine or blame him when it’s really me – still a lie) that I’m inviting liars into my life.


  325.  #325Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 10:55 am

    Hey, what’s the definition of “swinging”?

  326.  #326tinque on June 18, 2010 at 10:57 am

    Ladies, Gina and Shannon – I know you know this, but picking can and will leave scars. Plus it always looks worse after than before.
    Try to think of that before digging in. Or get gels on your nails. Can’t pick with those. lol

  327.  #327Lizzie on June 18, 2010 at 10:58 am

    Gina – you are being stalked. This is serious shit and you need to take it seriously. Swing buy your local cop-shop and get this guy checked into. ASAP.

  328.  #328tinque on June 18, 2010 at 11:01 am

    Lucy – Swinging in my book means switching partners whether casually or with the same people all the time. You can only be a swinger if you’re married or in a committed relationship.
    I would say polyamory is the modern definition of this.

  329.  #329Lizzie on June 18, 2010 at 11:07 am

    Lucy – swinging is partner swapping. It is otherwise known as The Lifestyle. So if you are on-line and you read a profile that says “we are part of The Lifestyle” that means they swing. Swing is all about friends having sex together. There are different types – group sex; partners together in the same room or partners separate in separate rooms. Typically these are married couples with very solid happy relationships and they swing to build excitement and add to the love they have for each other. Safe sex is paramount and openly discussed prior to activity. It is like going to any dinner party and then people disrobe and begin having sex with each other. Those who participate find it deepens their relationships. It is all recreation – like I play golf. Swing people also talk about their preferences openly – like do you like bondage, pain, etc. etc. so within the lifestyle there are “speciality” groups. There are Swing Cruises; Parties, clubs, etc. special web-sites. If you google couples swing – lots of resources will come up.

  330.  #330Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 11:07 am

    Skin-picking…behavior modification treatment has people replace undesireable habits gently with desireable habits. For example, each time you catch yourself picking your skin, do something else with your hands instead. If you like rocks, you could keep a few rocks in your purse and play with them. Or some object that has sentimental value to you. Or you could pluck your eyebrows instead. Something like that.

  331.  #331Simply Shannon on June 18, 2010 at 11:10 am

    Tinque: I feel angry. I know you mean the well. I don’t know where this anger is coming from. Wow.

    I know that picking my skin will leave scars. I don’t want to do it but I feel compulsive about it. I get into a zone where I don’t even know I’m doing it until the damage is done.

    I feel irritated, and I don’t want to take it out on anyone.


    Why do I feel like pouncing and being mean? What is that??

  332.  #332tinque on June 18, 2010 at 11:12 am

    I’m sorry Shannon – I don’t want to come across like a scolding parent. That was not my intention. I got this image in my head of myself when I had had a nasty picking session once long ago, and I had marks for so long, and I felt so self-conscious. And I just don’t want you to have to feel that.

  333.  #333Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 11:15 am


    Swingers like single women to join in their fun! ๐Ÿ˜‰ Let me know if you want me to show you one of those places… **my horns holding up my halo!**

  334.  #334Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 11:21 am

    Thanks for the definitions, everyone.

    Brenda, that’s kinda why I am wondering . . . a certain someone on a “transcendant spiritual path” once told me that swinging is at a very low energy level/vibration, like around 50 . . .

    . . . so I would have thought that a person on a transcendant spiritual path — wanting to raise their energy and vibration — would want to avoid something like that.

    So I didn’t know what counted as swinging and what didn’t.

  335.  #335Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 11:26 am

    “Those who participate find it deepens their relationships.”

    Well, I don’t want to help deepen THEIR relationship. ๐Ÿ˜›

  336.  #336tinque on June 18, 2010 at 11:27 am

    Lucy – I would argue that quote.

  337.  #337Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 11:31 am


    That quote is meaningless to me in light of my experiences there.

    I would say it’s an adventure for the open-minded. And, a taboo for the closed-minded.

  338.  #338gina on June 18, 2010 at 11:31 am

    Interesting about the vibration level, Lucy. People here in my real world (deep in the heart of Texas) don’t talk about energy vibrations. Oh wait – I do. It’s nice to hear it from other people.

    Yeah, I guess I will do something. I don’t know his last name. I hate this. boo.

  339.  #339Lizzie on June 18, 2010 at 11:31 am

    Lucy – sounds like your transcendant spiritual path person is misinformed. Getting involved in swing is a really serious decision – it could be quite soul destroying if you are not well prepared for it. On the other end, it can be totally liberating. I quite honestly don’t think there is any middle ground on this. Just imagine a goup of men and women with all manner of body parts messing around with all of your body parts – all at the same time….there is nothing low energy about this. Maybe when you are “done” you will be flattened – literally…LOL!

  340.  #340Siena on June 18, 2010 at 11:34 am

    Tinque, argue with that quote? Or you think it’s right?

    I’m not judging, but I can’t imagine how swinging would deepen intimacy. I have a friend who swings, and she says it deepens their relationship too… I can’t imagine it being that way.

  341.  #341Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 11:38 am

    Swinging…there is always more to something or someone than meets the eye….it can be whatever you choose to make it, and you can participate to any level you choose.

  342.  #342Siena on June 18, 2010 at 11:40 am

    “and you can participate to any level you choose.”

    I feel interested. Really? Like, I could show up at a swinger’s house and not do anything and just watch? I wouldn’t be considered weird?

  343.  #343Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 11:46 am

    Siena, it’s funny that you would mention “just watching” — I actually thought about that as a counter-offer to the generous (SARCASM!!!) offer I was given.

    Tinque, I would love to hear you argue that quote. That quote feels yucky to me.

    Lizzie, low energy doesn’t refer to lethargy — it refers to vibrational energy.

    David Hawkins is the author who says swinging is around 50 (low vibration). And that certain someone is a big fan of Hawkins (and Eckhart Tolle).

  344.  #344Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 11:47 am

    And I don’t think he’s ever read The Art of War. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  345.  #345tinque on June 18, 2010 at 11:53 am

    Siena – No I’m with you. I cannot agree that it deepens a relationship. True intimacy which what I believe most of want here, means a deep connectio9n with one person. Spreading it around does just that, spreads it around.
    I’m not saying that there’s only so much love one can hold in one’s heart. That is limitless, but the intensity most of us desire can only be between two committed loving and in love people.

  346.  #346Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 11:56 am


    Most swingers participate at sex clubs, or swinger clubs…google it in your area. I went to one in my area for a few years, during my wild years…I haven’t done it for quite a few years now.

    Typically, there’s a bar where you walk in, with booths, tables and chairs, and a dance floor, and it looks like any typical bar or night club. Off to the side are multiple bedrooms, and typically a large hot tub or two. In another room is a dining room, with food and soda, and it’s typically BYOB.

    It starts around 8 pm, and everyone eats, socializes, drinks, and dances. Things really heat up around 11 pm, when couples start heading off to bedrooms and the hot tub. You might see someone dancing in the bar wearing nothing but heels. Hot tubs are no clothes only. There is typically a room for those who like to be watched. Other bedrooms are private. Sometimes there’s a room darkly lit for a free-for-all. You can go and just watch…single women are usually let in for about $5 while couples and single men have to pay more like $70 + or -. That’s cuz they encourage single women, and they don’t get many who are brave enuff.

    I feel like I should be tied and muzzled for perverting your minds.

  347.  #347tinque on June 18, 2010 at 11:56 am

    By the way Art of War is a fascinating book. It was given to me by K, so…

  348.  #348Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Tinque, thanks for your insights. So… what if a man has a deep connection with one woman, is in love with her, loves her within a committed relationship — and it is all mutual — and they want to “play” with another person once in awhile in the same way Lizzie plays golf …. Is it possible that a scenario like that enhances the core couple’s relationship since thay are not really connecting on a deep level with the “extra” person (basically using her/him)?

    What do you think?

    (I’m hoping the answer is no. hehe)

  349.  #349Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    Uh-oh, Tinque! That book is a bad sign! ๐Ÿ˜‰

  350.  #350Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    Oh, you’d be surprised what they teach us at the abbey!

  351.  #351Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    I think the deep connection is more all about trust, mutual interest, and mutual satisfaction. One couple I talked with at a sex club said, “I like steak. I like steak a lot! But who wants to have steak every night? Once in a while, I like to have a hamburger, pork chops, chicken, …” Of course he was referring to other women. He told me this in front of his wife, so she was totally agreeing. People like variety and adventure. That stimulates their sex life, as opposed to coming home for the classic slam, bam, thank you ma’am many dry relationships fall into.

    I feel icky perverting your minds…want me to stop?

  352.  #352Siena on June 18, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Ah Bren, interesting. My mind doesn’t feel perverted, it’s interesting to me (haha).

    My friend swings at other people’s houses, so I thought that’s how it was done… but I bet there’s clubs around like you describe too.

  353.  #353Ankita on June 18, 2010 at 12:05 pm


    RE #295

    On the top of the page, at the left hand side, there can be seen a symbol of ‘f’ symbolizing facebook.. If you like it there, these blogs will get posted to your walls… If you don’t like it, no problem…

    I am also very sad about this… i don’t want guys to know our secret weapons and then use them against us….

  354.  #354tinque on June 18, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Lucy – I would say no. I do know those in the polyamory community would disagree with me as you will see in this article I wrote and the subsequent comments.
    I remember you all were having a discussion about that book the other day, but I can’t remember what was “bad” about it.
    It’s never been an issue here.

  355.  #355Siena on June 18, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    “That stimulates their sex life, as opposed to coming home for the classic slam, bam, thank you maโ€™am many dry relationships fall into.”

    Ya, but I would argue that a couple who has found themselves in that place should look within their own relationship to see where the intimacy block is and fix that.

    I’m not sure I agree with the idea that sharing partners will fix that problem. Maybe but a salve on it for a while, but not get at the root issue.

  356.  #356tinque on June 18, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    yes, yes, yes Siena…
    Sex doesn’t get boring, it’s the ones engaging in it who can.

  357.  #357Sweetpea on June 18, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    I’m loving all this Art of War talk. Lol!!
    Sorry Siena! Hope we’re not triggering you!

  358.  #358Siena on June 18, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    haha No! I was just making an observation about the players I’ve encountered who use that book as their “Bible”. I’ve also read that book, and I like it! It doesn’t trigger me though – ๐Ÿ™‚

  359.  #359Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    Tinque- Art of War was mentioned as a book that “players” read.

  360.  #360Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    Siena, so what do they get out of it to use in their playering?

    Maybe I should read it!

  361.  #361Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 12:12 pm


    Some swingers organize parties at their houses, or they advertise on sex sites for partners.

    I agree with you. I want a marriage with two people in a love triangle with God. Period. I have cum full circle, and I do mean cum! I am telling you what those people told me, to give you an idea of their mindset. But I don’t agree with them.

    Sin if fun…for a while, until the consequences catch up with you…

    I’ve returned to my roots, and I’ve proven all that I was told when I was growing up, that sex is truly beautiful when it is within marriage. I am thankful to Ryan for helping me to come back to my idealisms. I have regained my self-respect, and that is worth far more to me than momentary pleasure.

  362.  #362Siena on June 18, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    Well, players see women as their prey, basically, and the Art of War is all about how to overcome your enemy using specific tactics and philosophies.

    It’s a short book, easy to read… pick it up!

  363.  #363tinque on June 18, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    Oh that’s right. It’s all coming back to me now.
    No, definitely no players here.
    I want to add that if two people want that kind of lifestyle that’s cool, to each their own, whatever floats their boat, but I will never be able to call it true intimacy.

  364.  #364gina on June 18, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    I personally feel grossed out about the idea of all manner of body parts touching me! shiver!! I feel amused and I hope nobody cares that I wouldn’t want to participate in an orgy.

    I went and told the building manager about The Creeper. ha, that’s his new name. or would naming it attract it more?? Nah, it makes me laugh every time, it’s good.
    She was interested cause she didn’t know that a tenant was subletting her apartment, so she wasn’t even aware of his presence in the building. She was especially concerned when I told her about the guns – she wants to alert her authorities of what is in the building. I don’t think I will alert the police yet because he hasn’t done anything illegal.

  365.  #365tinque on June 18, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    I saw that book more as a useful tool in the corporate world.

    Sex within a deeply committed relationship is like nothing else, especially the longer the pair know each other and are in tune with each other. Boring? Never.
    It’s still getting better.

  366.  #366Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    “… but I will never be able to call it true intimacy.”

    Ya know, Tinque, there’s something in my heart that says YES YES YES to what you wrote here . . . it feels like it’s my deep, authentic heart .. . but then my mind comes in and says, “Maybe it’s just your strict Christian upbringing…. maybe you need to be more open-minded about it…..”

    What do you think?

  367.  #367Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    If I come across like a hypocrite, it’s cuz I’m not perfect, just forgiven.

    Go, Tinque!

  368.  #368Lizzie on June 18, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    I had an interesting discussion with a married guy I had a fling with – we talked about having a “third” and decided against it because we really valued the intensity of the relationship we had together. We got together almost weekly for about 6 months – he was absolutely intent on my satisfaction and was so gracious and thoughtful – all I could think of was how wonderful an experience it was. We would talk about our kids and a bit of business and then get on with things. I had no desire to carry on, and no desire to become emotionally involved with him. I could and he encouraged me to try all kinds of things that I might not have or would do in a “real” relationship. Naturally one of my fantacies would be to have 2 men – you know like men want 2 women – LOL! Anyway, I only got involved with him because I needed a distraction from the intensity of my work, and he was/is happily married. (although between us girls, I for the life of me can not understand how he can be happily married and out looking on purpose for an affair – but that was his thing, not mine). I think because we were so honest between each other, that it didn’t take much to “recover” from ending the relationship. Of all things it got boring becasue there was no emotional connection. It did make me wonder about swing because in the lifestyle, there is no emotional connection with the swing partners – you might be friends, but that deep connection we all seem to really want, is not part of swing – it is just sex. In my head and heart, this was an excellent experience for me – I so truly understand the difference between life and energy creating love making sex and just physical play. I needed to learn that and greatly appreciate the gift of my married man experience.

  369.  #369gina on June 18, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Players seem so pathologically crazy to me. They tell elaborate lies in order to get women to sleep with them. But they are out of touch with what they really want with a woman, cause they are so consumed with how desirable THEY are. I think that “playing” women is neurotic behavior that is encouraged by society. Popular music often idealizes the mindset that “manliness” is equated with being so effing hot that throngs of women want a piece bad enough to give it up.

    That was very thinky of me. But thinking it helps me feel good about letting go of my susceptibility to getting “played”.

  370.  #370tinque on June 18, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    Lucy – I am not Christian, never have been, never will be, was never raised with any sort of religion whatsoever and never took to one. I consider myself deeply spiritual nonetheless.
    So your upbringing may not have anything to do with what you feel which seems to be as I do.

    Bren- you don’t sound to me like a hypocrite at all. you explored, you experimented, and now you know what you want which is perfectly acceptable as far as I’m concerned.

    Lizzie – I have to question that man’s “happy marriage”. If he was so happy, why was he seeking sex elsewhere?


  371.  #371Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    Lizzie said, “but that deep connection we all seem to really want, is not part of swing โ€“ it is just sex.”

    That is what I found to be true. It felt so empty after a while. I heard one person comment at the sex club, no, more than one, “Sex is overrated.”

    Here are the lyrics of my favorite music artist, Larry Norman:

    Pardon Me

    Pardon me, kissing you like I’m afraid
    But I feel I’m being played with
    And you’ll leave me when you get the chance.

    Off you’ll go, in the darkness of the night
    Like a bird in freedom’s flight,
    You’re thinking only of deliverance.

    Close your eyes, and pretend that you are me.
    See how empty it can be
    Making love if love’s not really there.

    Watch me go, watch me walk away alone,
    As your clothing comes undone,
    And you pull the ribbon from your hair.
    Pardon me.

  372.  #372Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Gina said, “โ€œmanlinessโ€ is equated with being so effing hot that throngs of women want a piece bad enough to give it up.”

    Ryan cast spells in the past to get women to be attracted to him. He ended up with schizophrenia, a mental illness so deep that he told me six different women had said, “Dude, you’re freaking me out!” when he tried to get acquainted with them.

    When he met me, he made a point to say, “I only want ONE woman.”

    I believe he deeply regretted his choice to rush in where angels fear to tread. He went down a wrong path and has paid a heavy price the past 12 yrs or so. Long story.

  373.  #373Lizzie on June 18, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    tinque – I so agree! Hell, I was married to a gay guy and never went looking for a lover! and I am a scorpio!! It is all so odd – just for fun I cruise around the “other relationship” section of POF just becaues I find it so astounding.

    I have actually learned so much about how fragile relationships are since I began dating at age +50. When I find the one to build that deep connected relationship, I hope that we both will treat it as much as a precious gift as it really is.

  374.  #374Siena on June 18, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    Tinque, this is off-topic, but something I’ve wondered. You’ve often shared how you hooked up with K only 2 weeks after you left your ex. Did you CD during that time? Or ever with K? If not, how did you navigate that time when you two were figuring out whether you wanted happily ever after together?

    I know this is very nosey, but I also hear that you have a solid relationship and I value your insight. ๐Ÿ™‚

  375.  #375tinque on June 18, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    Yes Lucy – I firmly believe in finishing old business before starting new.
    It really is a precious gift, well put, and to treat it as anything but precious and sacred is sad at best.

  376.  #376gina on June 18, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    Skin picking is so much for me. A way to relieve stress, something to do when bored, a massive means of procrastination, instant gratification, a feeling of accomplishment, pain, pleasure, and never-ending preoccupation – it could go on for infinity because there so many pores – it’s inevitable that i can find something to pick at!

    But I just turned 29 last week. As a birthday gift, I’d like to give myself amazing skin to ring in my 30’s happily and carefree. A friend bought me a facial for my b-day. never had one. It’ll be weird to have someone else do it. I was doing very well at not picking, but then the night before last i had a very intense 2 hour “session” I really was pretty rough on my skin, and it doesn’t bounce back quite like it used to. A few years ago, I’d finish picking my face, back up to see the damage done, and I was shocked that I could still see some beauty even with all the damage. But now, when I pick, my heart leaps cause I don’t really recognize what i see. I’m not becoming something physical anymore, I’m getting further and further away from the pique of development – which doesn’t necessarily mean the the expression of beauty is hindered otherwise.

    Anyway, when I left my skin alone for a few days, it was weird – I felt like by not picking at it and stripping away delicate layers, I was contained in every sense: that I my face was protected by thin membranes that protect the layers below, and my internal chaos wasn’t “breaking out” on my face – I wasn’t wearing my pain, and I was feeling far less pain because I wasn’t walking around with the picking-induced shame. I felt in control and good. More willing to love myself, feel pride and feel good.

    But I have to acknowledge the sense that by looking good, it was like I was wearing a mask over my “real face” – like my real face is the ugly one!! In the past, I explored my ugly side. I intend to explore all the beauty I am capable of. I am going to love people and be sweet and considerate and make them feel good and make them smile and we’ll have fun and be lifelong friends. I will be of the most value to every possible person.

  377.  #377gina on June 18, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    Last night, making out with my date, I thought of what Abraham said about how people are generally to concerned about creating “long-term” relationships. She said that we don’t have that expectation with ice-cream. We don’t ask ice cream to last forever, just cause it’s delicious.
    So, with the guy last night, I started to feel worried about whether it would last forever, and then I felt compelled to judge him, and then I was like, no, I’m going to treat this moment like ice cream. I’m going to enjoy it! And I did!

  378.  #378tinque on June 18, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    Siena – You can ask me anything. I’m happy to share and am not shy about anything at all.
    No I never CDed, not before we got together and not while together.
    Even though we both wanted to take the time to know if this was it since we both had been so badly wounded in the past, we both just knew at the same time.
    I remember K asked me early on if I wanted to date others since I had just come out of such a long term relationship, and K was my first date. Without hesitation I told him I know what I like, and I like what I see.
    Remember we had known each other ten years prior in ballet class. He had even come to me for a face treatment which I did not remember, and I normally have a memory like an elephant, my theory being that there was an innate attraction, a deep one, but since I don’t do that while still with someone, I blocked it.
    We never really said to each other that this is it. It just was and was understood. It’s only in more recent years that the together forever has been actually voiced aloud.
    Does this answer your question?

  379.  #379Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 12:57 pm


    In the late 80s, I lost 90 lbs by eating mostly fruits and vegetables, using the book, Fit for Life, as my nutrition bible. The idea is to cleanse your body from the inside out with foods high in water content, namely fruits and vegetables. It is good for overall health.

    During that time, my skin was clearest and healthiest than at any other time! I would have complete strangers stop me on the street and ask what I used on my face, because my complexion was so clear! I told them, “Nothing! I eat massive amounts of fruit, so I’m well-hydrated!”

    I am gradually trying to return to that wellness lifestyle. Now if I could just quit tripping over Ryan.

  380.  #380Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 1:00 pm


    “I intend to explore all the beauty I am capable of. I am going to love people and be sweet and considerate and make them feel good and make them smile and weโ€™ll have fun and be lifelong friends. I will be of the most value to every possible person.”

    wow! That feels so good to read. I feel inspired to do the same thing!!!

    I used to be a picker but haven’t done it much in the past 7 years or so. I used to have really bad skin even in my late twenties but when I noticed it really cleared up once I changed my diet. I could probably find something to pick at if I really looked but for some reason it totally lost it’s appeal. I definitely can identify with how addictive it can be.

    I really really like what you said in your last post.

    Off to eat some leftover curry from last night. Yum!

  381.  #381Daria on June 18, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    ok my mom doesn’t like that I am on this blog… (sometimes) I used to feel uncomfortable letting her see it at first because of that, but now i just keep it open, even tho i was getting twinges of fear, but right now i didn’t reall

    so this morning my mom walks in and

    shes like “Hello Rori”

    and I say:

    GOOD MORniiing very sweet

    and shes like:

    Looks like you found a good mother!

    then she leaves

    talking about Rori etc, she feels jealous, she felt fuckin jealous that i was close to my godsister’s mom too

    i felt bad hearing that

    i didn’t answer tho

    my first off patterned answer would have been – “ohh you are the best mom”

    or somethng

    not aknowledging
    the weird way i feel

    which is angry

    and weird

    i feel tightened up

    in my like side of my bladder

    the back and sides of my head

    and my mouth

    in my solar plexus

    i have pouty “set face”

    i love my feelings

    i feel so angry at my mom and her sarcastic comments

    taht she makes to me and my dad

    that are all about “asking the innocent question”

    in an evil way

    and then pretending like she didn’t do anything wrong

    i feel really angry about this geez

    my dad used to try to answer the questions but ive noticed lately he is starting to say stuff too like “” thats not a real question” or i dont want to answer that

    the thing is she pops it up out of nowhere

    we’ll be having dinner and then the next thing i know shell be all smiling and saying some hella weird sarcastic thing

    like she just did to me

    i feel really mad

    i feel it in my arms now

    i love my arms

    i feel it under my eye

    i love my under eye

    i feel it in my low low back

    i love my low low back

    i feel a sigh

    i dont know how to respond

    to this

    i feel so weird

    like angry and also Confused

    yesterday she said some shit when i was going out the house that made me feel bad, and i got grumpy and tired

    until i fell to my knees (on the car seat at that)

    and finally was able to get the feeling moving

    now i dont want to fall under that energy again

    i feel my left shoulder tightening

    i love you left shoulder

    i think Fuck You woudl be an appropriate response

    but i dont feel comfortable saying that

    hello “bitchy thing first in the morning in a smily fake ass tone”

    “Fuck You”

    whaaaaat how dare you call me that?

    “Fuck you”

    you know this is just too much

    “fuck you”

    whats wrong with you

    “fuck you” “i dont like being attacked with sarcastic comments… it feels shocking like youre smiling at me and then drop me off a building… i feel really mistrustful of you and really angry… and I feel shocked and confused”

    i feel so angry

    Fuck you

    you fake ass bitch

    hella fake

    fake fake fake

    hateful ass bitch

    jealous of my friends jealous of my blog, jealous of me being close to my dad

    stupid hateful bitch

    i want to slap her but i wouldnt feel comfortable doing that at all

    she felt comfortable slapping me most of my life

    that fake ass bitch

    smile in your face and then stab u in the back and then smile some more

    fuck u

    i feel mad

  382.  #382Daria on June 18, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    Gina- happy birthday! I just had my birthday last week too! I’m 28

  383.  #383Siena on June 18, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Thank you for sharing, Tinque. I was about to ask how you were able to keep yourself centered while dating only him in the beginning (which is what CDing does).

    But I think I have my answer… since dancing takes all your energy, it’s impossible to laser focus on anyone while you’re doing it. Would you agree that maybe your dancing served as your CD so that you didn’t have to have other men in your rotation?

  384.  #384Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    I feel so weird saying this but there it definitely feels so satisfying to pop a pimple. I seems to satisfy my primal monkey self. Maybe it’s also because of the pressure release. What doesn’t feel good though is the way my skin looks after! Yikes!

  385.  #385Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    Siena: Interesting idea about how Tinque’s dancing played the role of cd-ing in our lives.

    I feel a little frustrated because I haven’t been cd-ing other men lately (as in dating) but I definitely flirt and practice my femininity and tools on other men all the time. I feel so busy with LI and other things I have going on. When I have a spare moment I definitely feel better using it to take care of myself.

    Anyway, I have been feeling a little frustrated that I have been going on cd dates but it hasn’t seemed to affect the level of attraction LI feels for me. I feel curious if it’s because I have my dance (which is the percussion band I’m in). I remember Rori also saying to go for a man that loves us even more than we love them. I feel that way with LI. I feel lot of love for him but I don’t feel scared of things not working out. I feel so excited and aware of all the amazing and available men in the world that if we were to break up, I would probably feel excited to get out and date again. ๐Ÿ™‚

  386.  #386tinque on June 18, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    Siena – I’m not sure. Maybe.
    I’m just like that though. When I like someone in a special way, there’s just no looking around. I’m not interested.
    So in a way I was laser focused on him, but my life was busy too. I had gone back to college and was i my last few quarters plus I was working a lot then too.
    So maybe that plus ballet served as my CDing.

  387.  #387Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    I’m feeling hopeful that one of you lovely goddesses will have an answer to my question. Which is….

    How does one cd in a small town or within a close knit community or two men know each other?

    In the social circle that I’m involved in, everybody knows everybody else and I’ve always wondered how it would work to date two different men that are friends.

    How do you all feel about this?

  388.  #388Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Wow! It feels so interesting to me that we had so many birthdays this past week!

    I know there was Lucy, Daria, Gina, Me, and it seems like there was at least one other, maybe more.

  389.  #389Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    I’m somewhat in to astrology and i find it interesting when certain signs are attracted to similar activities. Half of the people in my band are also geminis.

    I feel curious what other signs are attracted to being on here?

  390.  #390tinque on June 18, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    I would imaging all sorts Laughing Goddess. Wanting love is universal.

  391.  #391gina on June 18, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    I eat very healthy and I do have clear skin – I just get an inch away from the mirror and pick at any clogged pore compulsively. But every moment is a choice and I intend to choose to not pick.

  392.  #392Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    I feel weird about the idea of dating two men that know each other well. I would like to be able to do it but I feel unable to imagine it working out. I feel scared it would cause too much drama and hurt feelings. I feel doubtful that the men would be willing to do it.

    Hmmmm, I feel curious if I am focusing too much on how it would make the men feel. I don’t feel worried about just their feelings. I imagine it would feel awkward for me as well. I’m wondering if there is something I’m missing…if there is some way to work around this.

  393.  #393Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Hi Tinque!

    I agree that wanting love is universal but the way we go about it can take all sorts of different forms.

  394.  #394Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    Hi Tinque!

    I agree that wanting love is universal but the way we go about it can take all sorts of different forms…which may possibly be correlated to people’s astological signs.

  395.  #395Daria on June 18, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    I feel triggered

  396.  #396Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    I’ve noticed lots of astrological patterns like this throughout my life and when I see them I feel excited and curious.

    I feel kinda bummed reading your post to me Tinque. I don’t feel quite so excited any more. I feel like a squashed bug.

  397.  #397tinque on June 18, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    LaugingGoddess – most definitely the way we go about finding and keeping love vary between individuals.
    I feel curious why you feel like a squashed bug.

  398.  #398tinque on June 18, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    I see the correlation too with individual variation, yet it’s there.

  399.  #399Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    Hi Tinque.

    I feel hestitant to say because I don’t want to start any drama and I really do appreciate you here. When I read your post though, it felt dismissive…basically like you were saying it doesn’t matter what signs are attracted to this blog because wanting love is universal.

    I do understand that and I do understand that this topic may not be as exciting to others as it is to me but like I said when I read your post, I felt drained, and deflated, and icky. And I felt worried that you thought I was stupid for getting excited about a bunch of us having birthdays so close together.

  400.  #400tinque on June 18, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    I apologize if that’s what you read, for that’s not what I meant. I love this stuff too, and I was wanting to say that all kinds of people and thus signs are attracted to this site since love is universal, yet noticing the similarities of style within this meaning signs is fascinating. And even within this each one of us is unique.
    Make better sense?

  401.  #401Sweetpea on June 18, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    Laughing goddess,

    Ha ha funny! I read the post earlier about birthdays & was thinking, didn’t Laughing Goddess have a birthday this month? I just now realized you were the one who posted it. Lol!

    Ok. Don’t know why but I feel amused. I don’t like hearing you feel like a squashed bug. I,like you am a student of Astrology. I don’t make decisions around my horoscope, but it’s fascinating to me to study it & watch to see how accurate it is! Not everyone believes in Astrology though. In fact, some people are downright opposed to it.

    Here’s something I got a kick out of that you might enjoy… One of my CDs made a comment that his horoscope for the day was right on & his friend asked him if astrology is so accurate, why do different astrologers say different things for the same day. My CD said, “does everyone see a cloud the same way?”

    That’s nothing against you! We are all entitled to our beliefs and curiosities.

    I, too found it interesting that so many of you have June birthdays! Hope yours was happy!

  402.  #402Sweetpea on June 18, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    Tinque – just so it’s not misconstrued, I wasn’t making any observation about whether or not you are opposed to astrology. Just a general observation.

  403.  #403tinque on June 18, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    I know Sweetpea, and thank you for that. I am actually open to all sorts of things. I happen to love astrology and have had my chart done a couple of times. To see it in detail like that so as to explain the variance from the standard within my sign for example is fascinating and that it is accurate, well…
    kind of gives me chills.

  404.  #404Orna Walters on June 18, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    *H*A*P*P*Y**B*I*R*T*H*D*A*Y* to ALL my Gemini Sisters!!!

    Mine was on the 1st!

    Wishing for you wealth, health and LOVE! <3


  405.  #405Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    Ugh, sometimes it feels so hard for me to express by bad feelings to people. I worry that it will cause problems and make people uncomfortable. I feel confused about what is worth saying outloud and what is better to just work out on my own.

    Yesterday I had a situation with LI where I expressed that I had been feeling a bit disconnected from him the past few days. It felt bad when he reacted with defensiveness. I told him how I feel frustrated when I try to express what’s going on with me and he reacts that way. I feel frustrated because when he does that the energy and focus shifts to him and I can’t express what is going on for me. He said he understood but when he hears me express negative feelings his stress level rises very quickly and he feels insecure because he thinks he is doing something wrong and I will want to break up with him. I told him that it would feel so much better if he would just listen and not react by getting stressed out. We said okay and we talked about why I was feeling disconnected. I felt much better after our conversation.

    One thing I was wondering about is I’ve noticed that when I am using lots of feeling messages the men around me start using them too. I feel confused about this. In a way, it feels healthy but in a way I feel confused because aren’t they supposed to be the thinkers and we the feelers?

  406.  #406Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    Tinque: No need for an apology. I did feel bad and I’m practicing expressing this kind of thing when it comes up for me. It doesn’t feel easy but it’s getting better and better.
    And I’m finding that it’s much more bearable when I use feeling messages rather than blaming.

    Oma: Happy birthday to you too Gemini sister!!!

    Sweetpea: Thanks for the birthday wishes! I do feel a little confused about what you were wanting to communicate to me in the rest of the post though.

  407.  #407Orna Walters on June 18, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    Laughing Goddess:

    I think its great that when you share your feelings that your man starts to mirror that back and speaks how he feels! That is a great way to be emotionally intimate.

    As his tendency is to get defensive it may help for you to practice some communication skills that will shift HOW you communicate your feelings.

    I give this template to my clients:

    I feel ______________.
    When you _______________.
    Can we please _____________?

    Another option on that last part is:
    Would you please ______________?

    See how he responds when you utilize this. Please let me know how it goes.

    Big Hug,

  408.  #408Orna Walters on June 18, 2010 at 2:55 pm


    Thank you for the birthday wishes!! Much appreciated and I am feeling the love!


  409.  #409Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    Gina: I feel weird because I don’t want you to think because I mentioned that my skin cleared up when I changed my diet, that I think you have bad skin. I was just remembering that I used to pick, and then realized that I hadn’t in a while and then remembered that my skin also cleared up quite a bit since then. I was remembering my experience but not trying to project it on to your situation. It also felt good to mention that about changing my diet because like I said, I stugfled with it well into my late twenties and it would have felt great to know earlier that I could have fixed it by just eliminating a few things from my diet. I felt inspired to express that not specifically to you but for someone who may be reading and struggling with the same issues.

  410.  #410gina on June 18, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    sorry if I came off as blunt: I was just clarifying that I have a picking problem not a skin problem.

  411.  #411Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    I have a toxic man addiction problem, an overeating problem, a time-discipline problem, and a cheesecake addiction problem.

    And I’m weird: I like teddy bears.

  412.  #412Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    I love my attitude problem!

    LOL! Lava fest, Daria! Let’s trigger each other! YUM!

  413.  #413Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    I want to call Ryan.
    I want to call Ryan.
    I want to call Ryan.
    I want to call Ryan.

  414.  #414Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 3:13 pm


    Do you like teddy bears?

  415.  #415Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    Thanks Oma!

    I will try this out and report back. It makes sense to me.

    If I say “I’m feeling disconnected” he seems to feel confused and jumps to worse case scenario.

    Yet if I say “I feel disconnected from you when we are doing lots of practical stuff and around lots of other people. Could we please take a few moments during that time to check-in and share some romantic connection”

    I could see how he would take that better. Actually, that’s what we eventually came to and he was understanding and happy to do it. It would be nice though to bypass the defensiveness that first came up.

    We have been busy the last week with friends, and family gatherings, and working together and while we were around each other a lot, I wasn’t feeling the romance that we normally share. It felt really great that he understood and wanted to connect with me in that way too. Hmmmm I feel really happy and satisfied with how open he is to growing and evolving and creating our relationship to be what we want.

  416.  #416Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    Gina: I feel supportive of you and you picking problem although maybe now it is your PAST picking problem as it sounds like you are already on the path to eliminating it.

    I liked reading what you wrote about Abe and the ice cream. It feels good to be reminded of that.

  417.  #417Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 3:26 pm


    what about:

    I want to be in a loving relationship with a man who is super in to me!

    I want to be in a loving relationship with a man who is super in to me!

    I want to be in a loving relationship with a man who is super in to me!

    I want to be in a loving relationship with a man who is super in to me!

    I feel so much better when I focus on that versus laser focusing on one man.

    How does it feel to you?

  418.  #418Daria on June 18, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    Ack I feel triggered!

    I feel ICKY reading the Could we please…

    it feels UBER (hidden) MASCULINE energy to me

    I get an image (i’ve had before) of the “emotional therapy” wife… who dominates talks to her husband like he’s a child”

    like… that feels not very in agreement with our relationship honey.. could we please use our indoor voices when we share our feelings?


    – this may not be the way it feels/works for you Orna, or LG –

    I feel terribly triggered by it, and it feels super directive and masculine to me

    I really feel awed by Rori’s

    I feel… I don’t want… , What do you think?

    because GOSH – IT FEELS SCARY! I mean, im giving up aLL CONTROL of the outcome

    no Could we please “have my outcome here”

    I feel uncomfortable many times expressing uncomfortable feelings and want to jump to directing… sometimes i DO ack

    sometimes it feels like im going around /Not being able to express clearly when I don’t say what I want.

    sometimes saying what I want is appropriate, I don’t want to say what I want from him…

    I wish Rori would do some more posts around – when to say what we want and when to totally give up control

    What would I do in LG’s situation? Which I have been in … hmmmmm?

    I would feel terribly uncomfortable! ACK

    I’ve been feeling not so close romantically like before… I miss that… I don’t want to blame you or make you wrong… I feel afraid of that happening once I share this…

    What do you think?

    I feel so uncomfortable.. I feel afraid this will be taken as blaming or making you wrong and that’s not what I want… I would just feel so much better to get this out… I’ve been feeling distant… I miss feeling close and romantic… what do you think?

    Ack feels freakin scary


  419.  #419Daria on June 18, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    More practicing for Daria –

    I feel more disconnected when we are doing a lot of stuff with people than when we were having our alone time… I miss that… I don’t want to go without having at least a bit of alone time, even when we’re busy… what do you think?

    ahh that feels relieving

  420.  #420Daria on June 18, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    or what do you think we can do?

  421.  #421gina on June 18, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    18 years ago, I got rejected by a theater company, and it was crummy how they did it, and my parents told them off and made sure that they didn’t receive as much government funding that year. I never returned till 3 years ago I worked in the box office, and it was miserable. I’m embarrassed to say I got fired. I love my guilt. Anyway, next month, there are auditions for Snow White, and I want to be Snow White real bad. REAL BAD. And I think it would be awesome to audition. but I’m scared that the lady my mom told off will be there. I could use a stage name!

  422.  #422Sweetpea on June 18, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    Lol Daria! I feel so amused by your posts! I enjoy hoe you practice working things out on here & give us all examples to think about.

  423.  #423Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    Brenda: I have some more thoughts about what you said about wanting to call Ryan that I feel inspired to share.

    Sometimes it feels good to me to look at what I say and dissect it to it’s very literal meaning. When I hear you say “I want to call Ryan” I feel doubtful that that is what you literally want. I feel doubtful that what you really want is to call him. It feels more likely that you want to have a meaningful conversation with him, or that you want to have a connection with a man that you feel attracted to, etc etc.

    Hmmm, I feel weird that I’m not making sense…

    I feel confident that when we say things lime this they are actually prayers of a sort. I feel better when I am literally expressing what I actually want.

    In this situation, I feel doubtful that you really just want to call Ryan. In fact, my guess is if you did you would probably feel bad about leaning forward.

    I feel curious if my train off thought is making any sense?

  424.  #424Daria on June 18, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    and I felt really angry and triggered and am going to express it here ufff

    when I read Tinque’s statment about “that’s just how I am, when I’m (approx) dating someone seriously I don’t look at other men. I’m just not interested”

    because I FELT separated from.

    as in, um yeah, most of us think we are that way, and feel not interested. that’s why it’s so difficult for Rori to get sirens started on circular dating

    I felt disconnected when I read (in general) “that’s just how i am”

    i get triggered to – UM OK, so what makes you think I’m not

    WHY? do I feel triggered this way? and ANGRY?

    I feel a bit confused

    I love my confusion. I don’t like feeling left out, or feeling like someone is separating from me.

    That’s just how I am. I don’t like when people say that’s just how I am.

    I’m processing through my trigger here

    I feel mad that … I didn’t use to feel interested in other men when I was dating one. And now I am, due to practicing circular dating.

    So how I am has changed. and that triggers me because?

    it triggers me because.. it feels removed from me… it gives me a picture of like BAR DEFENSE UP…


    I feel left out reading that. And I feel ANGRY.

    hehe I feel like I’m avoiding what I feel.

    Hi Trigger

    I INTEND to heal you dammit

    I LOVE YOU!!!




  425.  #425Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    Daria: I feel understanding of what you are saying and I can see how saying “could we please” may feel more directive than saying “I don’t want”. The thought crossed my mind too. But then I felt curious if by saying “could we please take some time to check in and connect romantically” I could leave it up to him tondtermine what that looks like.

    It would feel bad to say “could you please kiss me even when other people are around” or could you do this or that. The other statement feels open-ended and less directive…to me.

    I also feel good about your practice statements, esp. the last one.

    I feel good about using I don’t want too.

    I don’t want for us to lose our romantic vibe just because we are busy. I don’t want to get distracted from each other just because we are busy.

  426.  #426Daria on June 18, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    I feel longing!

  427.  #427Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    “I’m just like that though. When I like someone in a special way, there’s just no looking around. I’m not interested.”

    Hmm. Wow. Now THAT feels familiar! ๐Ÿ™‚

  428.  #428Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    The picking topic is total synchronicity with our household discussion last night — my son and his gf were talking about picking and popping blackheads. It was an intense, long convo, and they were asking for my input. Lol. Crazy! Is it like national picking awareness week or something?

  429.  #429Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    Thanks, Orna, for the gemini bday wishes!

    I have always loved being a gemini.

    Happy Birthday to all the ones I didn’t say it to yet!

  430.  #430Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    Daria, I feel really good about how you are processing your triggers. <3

  431.  #431Daria on June 18, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    LOL! doesn’t it tho. I’m just like that too.

    well I was.

    now I’m like this.

    oh gosh. when i DID have feelings for another man, and I was dating or having sex with a new one,



    I FELT LIKE it WAS WRONG… star crossedly wrong, to have feelings for the man I was in love with, and be dating a new man, it was DOOMED


    why would this happen why why why!!!

    and when I liked only one, he didnt want to be with me


    the drama, the poetic, romantic “stillettos and pain” of it all

    i love me

    i feel glad to have changed this about myself

    and be focusing on me

  432.  #432Orna Walters on June 18, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    Truly either way is great and its good to switch it up and use what works for you in the moment.

    What I like about “Could we please __________?” is that it gives me the opportunity to express what what I desire which is also is a subdivision of speaking how I feel.

    I find that most men want to “solve the problem” while women like to share the emotion.

    So the “Could we please ___________?” presents a request that includes a solution of sorts.

    Certainly I feelโ€ฆ I donโ€™t wantโ€ฆ , What do you think? is great too and I find that I switch them up and use them both.

    Daria: I am feeling curious as to why this came up for you: “no Could we please โ€œhave my outcome hereโ€”

    “Can we please” is a request. . .

    Big Hug,

  433.  #433Daria on June 18, 2010 at 4:32 pm

    Orna –

    because asking for something from what I understand from Rori is directive masculine energy.

    And feminine energy doesn’t control the outcome -by presenting a solution.

    This allows the man to come up with his own solution

    which can make me feel very uncomfortable sometimes! when I already have a solution in mind – masculine energy

    so in feminine energy as Rori presents it is to NOT make requests… instead state what we don’t want

    in her book she has particular examples where she discusses this:

    like not to ask a man to take out the garbage.

    Instead: Ohh i feel disgusted looking at the garbage. I don’t want to take out the garbage.

    then (perhaps) not right that second… the man will have space to step in and do something of his own inspiration and

    will also be inspired to do more and more

    when we ask for a particular outcome, we may / or may not get it, but it puts us in masculine –

    the man may come up with a different BETTER solution, maybe mabye not “Be Surprised” is the last part of the mantra

    we can tell him that doesn’t feel good, if it doesn’t

  434.  #434Orna Walters on June 18, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    Yes! I completely agree! ๐Ÿ™‚

    The template I have up top is one that I use when I’m speaking how I feel – so the Can we please? is relating specifically to that interaction. Not in general – certainly not in “trying to get my man to take an action.”

    Rori and I have had conversations about the template I use and she loves it. I cannot recall exactly what she said at the time (its been awhile), but I know it was not at all perceived as “bad” or “masculine” by her.

    This template is based in what is called “non-violent communication” which is a way of taking responsibility for our own feelings while communicating them.

  435.  #435Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    For me, I used to also feel that way about only not being open to other men when I am interested in one.

    I feel differently about that now. Rather than looking for “the one” I feel better thinking that there are many many men out there that I could have an amazing relationship with. I don’t feel attached to any one man because I believe the most important connection I am seeking is with myself and with the universal creative energy (God). I feel confident that energy can produce an infinite number of men I can choose from. I feel excited about the idea of exploring the many different forms of creation that can show up. I feel best when I balance my desire to explore with my desire for stability and going deep with one person. Right now, I feel hopeful that I would be okay if things didn’t work out with LI. It feels bad to me when I just think there is the “one” because then I find myself clingy and feeling despair if it doesn’t work out with him. I feel resistant to setting myself up to feel despair.

  436.  #436Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    Oma: I love non-violent communication! I studied it for a bit and it was my introduction to feeling messages. I wish I would remember to use it more often.

  437.  #437gina on June 18, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    Also, I like to take it real easy, but then, when I am passionate about something, I really go for it. But I spend a lot of time chilling out waiting for inspiration. And that seems to piss people off. Like they seem to say, where do you get off?? My mom used to pick on me for moving slow and doing things the way I do, but then, when I became anorexic, she stopped trying so hard to change me. It feels like crap to think that someone doesn’t like who I inherently am. I guess that’s my biggest fear – that I’m a bad person…Writing that out, it seems totally ridiculous, cause I get to choose. But I have to admit, that I walk around asking people for validation. I feel very good about how I’ve been treating people lately, and I feel like I can look pretty. Before, I didn’t feel like I could “face” people. I was ashamed.
    I feel inspired to play snow white at the local theater that has rejected me so much in the past – just for kicks!! and I feel inspired to maybe get into montessori training for a local preschool. I’m definitely subbing their, but maybe this is something I can get invested in. I feel a strong need to identify myself with some sort of cause. Whether it be motherhood or a career or philanthropy. Right now I’m sort of hanging out. I’m independent, but I feel like everyone is ready form me to do more. I guess I do need to carry my fair share of productivity in physical form. But I feel accomplished when i daydream. No joke. K, go clean my apartment!!!!

  438.  #438Orna Walters on June 18, 2010 at 4:55 pm


    “I donโ€™t feel attached to any one man because I believe the most important connection I am seeking is with myself and with the universal creative energy (God). I feel confident that energy can produce an infinite number of men I can choose from. I feel excited about the idea of exploring the many different forms of creation that can show up.”

    BRAVA!!! What a great space to be in!!

  439.  #439Lizzie on June 18, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    So then Daria, as I continue to process the Family Guy situation, I am working on scripts….just in case I hear from him again and I decide to go out with him – who knows I might just tell him to go jump in the lake.

    this is my script-
    After the time we spent 2 weeks ago, I felt so incredibly wonderful and filled with warmth, lightness and joy, such positive energy and that stayed with me for days. And after a while, I began to feel forgotten, abandoned and like all we had together was a one-night-stand. And what I don’t want is to get into a meaningless dating relationship where I push you away from me. What do you think?

  440.  #440Orna Walters on June 18, 2010 at 5:00 pm


    I love it too! I have a friend who is an “Expert” with a high level degree in NVC and she often attends the live events/workshops that my husband and I have. I like having her in the room for people who may need some extra support.

    It takes practice just like every other tool.

    I first learned it at a self-defense class!! It was one of the greatest gifts I gave myself after my ex bf had beat me up. Knowing that I could defend myself made me feel so much safer in the world.

    Where did you study?

    Big Hug,

  441.  #441Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    I feel appreciative of this conversation Oma and Daria. I feel understanding of both of your points. From reading this discussion, I feel more confident and comfortable using both phrases “could we please” and “I don’t want”. I see the benefits of both. When I say “could we please” it feels better to make an open-ended suggestion so that he still has space to surprise me. I feel excited to experiment with both and see how they feel.

    I also feel happy because through this conversation, I feel more aware of how I could tweak my feeling messages by adding for than “I feel”. As I said before, just saying “I feel disconnected” caused a panic reaction in him. If I had added either ending…I don’t want, what do you think” or “when, could we please” would have felt more clear and less stressful.

  442.  #442Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    Oma: I studied with a couple of different teachers in Hawaii. It’s quite popular over there.

  443.  #443Daria on June 18, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    Gina ! hi five on that way of doing things and pissing people off hehe!

  444.  #444Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    I’m in on that high five too! It’s pissing off my kids and my parents. ๐Ÿ™‚ but they’ll learn . . .

  445.  #445Daria on June 18, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    Lizzie –

    hmmm… if this were me… I wouldn’t say that.

    I would stick to in the moment feeling messages.

    Hi… wow I feel surprised and good to hear from you!

    Him… really surprised why? or… ohh ive been busy busy

    Me… oh yeah.. I feel weird saying this, but I felt pretty bad not hearing from you for so long. I don’t feel comfortable going so long not connecting with someone I felt that close to… what do you think?

    and you’re off!!!

    basically I like your message except for the “meaningless dating relationship part” I felt zoned out there… cuz i don’t get whta that means… I just felt pulled on like you wanted something from me and i felt uncomfortable

    i mean, you’re dating… whats meaningless about that… what relationship

    it’s (circular) dating or engaged? you’re not engaged so clearly you’re dating…

    that part feels weird and confusing

    I would look to state clearly what I didn’t want…

    like going so much time without hearing from a man im dating , feeling close and then feeling distant, feeling THIS WAY, etc

  446.  #446Daria on June 18, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    I am slightly familiar with the basic NVC template…

    when you do … i feel …. and this doesn’t meet my need for…

    when I read it, it doesn’t feel as feminine for me as giving up control of the outcome completely – no suggestions or mentioning you’s

    actually the above template is pretty feminine hehe

  447.  #447Daria on June 18, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    I feel squeezy cringy inside because I feel afraid that my “past way of doing things” is letting me down.


    and i feel stressed and worried a lot, and stuck

  448.  #448Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    Gina: I feel creeped out about creeper. I don’t want to jumped to conclusions. It feels better to give him the benefit of the doubt but yes, I feel creeped out hearing about his behavior.

    I also feel curious about what you said about LOA and not wanting to call him creeper because of that.

    I’m trying to imagine what Esther would say about this. I’m guessing that she would say to focus on the postive aspects of this. Like

    -well, he hasn’t done anything dangerous so far.
    -It feels good to know that I have the support of the building manager
    -I know that I create my own reality and Im not going to attract something bad in my life
    -I will continue to stay in the vortex and this will easily and effortlessly fade out of my life
    -all is well and I am safe

    It feels good to practice my deliberate creation skills. I feel hopeful that you won’t mind me practicing on your situation. I feel hopeful that this passes easily fir you and you can feel safe. I feel confident that things will work out well.

  449.  #449Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    My experience and observations with the popular “I feel … when you …can we please?” template is that it is very easy to slip blame and controlling behavior in there without realizing it. Yes, you can work at it, and learn to avoid those things, but I have seen couples get really lost trying to do that without outside facilitation. Then they say, “We’re doing the formula, but we’re still not hearing each other, still blaming each other, and still fighting.”

    I prefer Rori’s template for that reason, and was actually pretty excited to find it after being exposed to the older one for so long.

    Just my two cents.

  450.  #450Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    I feel curious about whether it is “a man i’m dating” or “a man I went on a date with or maybe two or three dates and I may or may not go on another one depending on if he calls and if I want to.”

    When does it become “a man I’m dating”? as opposed to the latter?

  451.  #451Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    Daria: I feel like giving you a hug and whispering how awesome you are in your ear. And I would keep whispering it and whispering it until finally you surrendered to believing me just so I would shut up ๐Ÿ™‚

    and then you wouldn’t feel stuck because you would realize that you are exactly who and where you are supposed to be and all is well and that life is a deliscious unfolding.

    And then we would sing and dance and cry and celebrate our lovely lives.

  452.  #452Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    Oh ya, and I would also tickle you til you peed your pants

  453.  #453Daria on June 18, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    lol Laughing Goddess!! hahhaa
    thank you

    I feel lonely!

    I want to go hang out and laugh and go out together with someone I feel good with, even for a drive,

    gonna go out by myself tho



  454.  #454Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    I’m feeling excited about my plan for getting productive and reducing procrastination!

    Sometimes I feel overwhelmed with all that I want to do. I also feel unable to truly relax when I am trying to relax because part of me feels guilty for not doing. So… I have been experimenting with this “15 minute game) and i feel hopeful that it can help me get on track. When I feel stuck knowing that there is something that I “need” to do, I end up just sitting around and doing nothing. I’m all for doing nothing but this kind of doing nothing feels bad.

    So, when I’m feeling that way, I am starting to get up and spend 15 minutes doing something that I have been procrastinating. Just 15 minutes, that’s it!

    For example, if I feel inspired to watch a Man Men marathon, it feels better to spend 15 minutes in between episodes to do something productive. This feels good. I am going to try and incorporate this more and more!

  455.  #455Daria on June 18, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    Lucy I feel pretty hurt annoyed and disrespected when you talk like you are the king of the world and your opinion is the only one out there… can we please agree that you won’t talk like that anymore?

  456.  #456Lizzie on June 18, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    Thank you Daria, I feel such warmth for you I shall send a kiss to the middle of your lovely forehead for a thank you.

    Meโ€ฆ oh yeah.. I feel weird saying this, but I felt pretty bad not hearing from you for so long. I donโ€™t feel comfortable going so long not connecting with someone I felt that close toโ€ฆ what do you think?

    My boy energy says I must really work at staying in the now – which you do so beautifully. Stay present, feel my world, acknowledge my feelings.

    Lucy, I also did non-violent communications and found that it is exceptionally easy to get off track. And like you describe, it is very easy for the parties to get back in to “you did”. I much prefer the Rori method. I find the practice one step at a time helpful:

    I feel tension in my chest
    I feel pain in my feet
    I feel like my shoulders are rubbing against my ear lobes

    then to begin to move through the experience. Interestingly I have been practicing with the hot -flashes. My cycle is about every 20 minutes and in the evening every 15 minutes.

    I feel the zap of heat beginning in my belly at the very centre of the bottom of my rib cage. The heat rapidly floods up into my lungs and wraps around to my back and fills my chest. Like a striking a match the heat radiates up my neck and it throbs. It goes into my chin and flashes down the chin line to my ears. They pulsate and radiate into every hair follicle and it feels like little bon-fires are lit in every hair. I can see glowing fires all over my hair. Since I am on fire, the fire engine arrives on my forehead and a flood of water begins but it sprays in the oddest of places running down the side of my face and between my breasts, a river flows down the centre of my back, to the top of my bum, and running faster and faster down the back of my knees and soaking my underwear. I breathe deeply into my belly and filling my lungs with cool air. My lips feel swollen…. hot flashes make my body feel completely alive, totally out of control for just a second, I love walking around almost naked while others are bundled-up, I love to feel the wetness and prickling on my skin when the cool air graces my body, I love my hot flashes

    I timed them while I was getting my nails done today….90 seconds.

    I have discovered bamboo t-shirts – AWESOME!

  457.  #457Daria on June 18, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    Lucy and everyone that was a joke . just for fun. the same can be done with any template


    I feel like you piss me off. I don’t want you to talk like you’re the king of the world anymore. what do you think about that?

  458.  #458Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    Laughing Goddess, RE: #400 – Thank you! Yes,

    I want to be with a man who is super into me!
    I want to be with a man who is super into me!
    I want to be with a man who is super into me!
    I want to be with a man who is super into me!
    I want to be with a man who is super into me!

  459.  #459Daria on June 18, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    Umm Lizzie – whoa I felt turned on reading about your hot flashes! i feel a lil embarassed about this!

    your riffs feel like staring at something fixated with my mouth open

  460.  #460Lizzie on June 18, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    Lucy I feel pretty hurt annoyed and disrespected when you talk like you are the king of the world and your opinion is the only one out thereโ€ฆ can we please agree that you wonโ€™t talk like that anymore?

    Alrightie – for a non violent communication, I feel the overwheming desire to hit you now

    So lets try turn that into a Rori way of engaging…

    With these words and attitudes, I am feeling disrespected and so deeply hurt I am on the edge of crying, what I don’t want right now is to damage our relationship, what do you think?

  461.  #461Jennifer on June 18, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    I have a toxic man addiction and a cheesecake addiction too.
    I love my addictions.
    I’ve been emailing with B.
    I feel proud of myself. He started telling me about how he doesnt’ have a motorcycle yet, I said I dont want to talk about that now.
    I want to talk about me. If we are doing any communicating we are focusing on me.
    My feelings, my thougths, my wants and don’t wants.
    I said that I cant feel better until I feel acknowledged. I can’t move past this.
    I don’t know if there *IS* a past this.
    But I know I dont’ wannna hear about a stupid motorcycle if I still haven’t felt heard about my issues.
    F*ck that noise.
    I have a coffee date tomorrow. With POF guy who has three degrees. He leans foward big time.
    I have another one on monday with Eharmony military communications guy.
    Good times.

  462.  #462Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    Laughing Goddess, RE: #406 – What I really want is for Ryan to call me, apologize for messing up our beautiful romance last year, and ask if we could get a fresh start. And for him to make up for ripping my heart out by treating me like a total princess full time.

  463.  #463Daria on June 18, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    Lizzie ACK! honestly i feel like I MUST ESCAPE!!! I DON’t know what you want, i just get the feeling you want something!!!!

    With these words and attitudes, I am feeling disrespected and so deeply hurt I am on the edge of crying, what I donโ€™t want right now is to damage our relationship, what do you think?

    for me that would be:

    I feel awful… ohh I feel like i’m going to cry… I don’t want to feel this way… and I’m feeling really really angry…

  464.  #464Lizzie on June 18, 2010 at 6:01 pm

    Daria you are truly beautiful and I have goosebumps writing this. Your riffs have taught me to be present with my sensations and move them to love. I have learned a great deal from you. thank you from my soul. I shall continue to practice and I can only hope to get to the point where it comes as naturally to me as to you.

    I must sign off now.

  465.  #465Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    Rori also has statements that accomplish the same thing as Orna’s…

    “It would feel so good to be with a man who…”

  466.  #466Lizzie on June 18, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    ohh I feel like i am going to cry…I am feeling so angry like I might explode – I hate feeling this way and I really really don’t want to explode

    how is that?

  467.  #467Lizzie on June 18, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    jeeze did that ever trigger me! I started to feel that angry. A few months ago I did that….

    I can’t stand it any more…the bickering…and controlling shit…it is so awful.. it feels like I am smothering, I can’t breathe….it feels like everything inside me is on fire and it is going to explode…I freaking hate this feeling… I can’t stand it… I don’t want to be on fire, I don’t want to explode….

  468.  #468Daria on June 18, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    I feel safe and touched reading that feeling message Lizzie

    and very smily reading what you wrote to me yay!

  469.  #469Brenda on June 18, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    Gina, RE: #420 – Daydreaming

    I had an unusual meeting with a US attorney for over an hour in 1990. He told me a lot of stuff off the record, to help me succeed in life!

    He said he works about 60 hrs a week, but he found it a valuable use of time to spend a lot of time thinking! That validated the need to think I had been feeling. Ever since then, I have a lot of down time that IS productive! I really value that time.

  470.  #470Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 6:21 pm

    I just got back from a brisk walk with my kids in the park, feeling free and fun with the fireflies.

    But reading this now, I feel astounded, my heart feels like a heavy pulsating rock in my chest. It feels like rocket engines burning and roaring, like I can almost hear it — “pkoooooh!”

    Oh it feels so heavy, so discouraging, this feeling in my heart.

  471.  #471Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    I feel like crying.

    Oh, that feeling came after the first one.

  472.  #472Laughing goddess on June 18, 2010 at 6:26 pm

    Ya, I’m not a fan of the NVC script but I do love the premise behind it.

    I had a teacher once who told me that there is technical NVC and there is colloquial NVC. Colloquial NVC is about saying the words in whatever way feels comfortable as long as the energy is coming from a place of non-blaming, focusing on our feelings, etc. That feels bad to me. I have also seen people use NVC to say really nasty things.

    But I really do love the energy behind what NVC is trying to do. It was great for me at the time but never fully solved my own communication issues.

  473.  #473Jilly on June 18, 2010 at 6:28 pm

    Sirens!! I am asking for suggestions!! ok Toby Keith guy who’ve I’ve kinda known for about 5 yrs now has messaged me on pof and he said that seeing my profile made him think…

    me: well..what did it make you think?

    him: that we are both on here and we have so much in common…do you have any thoughts?

    me: I feel good about those thoughts…

    him: so now you know what I’m thinking…am I the only one thinking this?


    what do I say here…I’m trying to be normal here but this is a first for me!!

    he hasn’t said a whole lot…so I feel I don’t have a lot to feel about but I do feel I want to get to know him on a more personal level…do I just say that?

  474.  #474Lucy on June 18, 2010 at 6:28 pm

    Laughing Goddess — “I have also seen people use NVC to say really nasty things.”

    Me too.