Horrible, Bad Toxic Man – Why Do You Love Him and What To Do Now

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girl-horseHere’s a comment from Renee I jumped right off of, because I felt so strongly I’m about as forceful as I’m ever going to get.  This is total tough love, totally hard to hear if you’re Renee, so Renee – please don’t read it if you don’t want to hear it this brutally…and let’s all help with getting Renee going in the right direction…Renee – you’ve had enough pain…I want you to be happy right now:

“Rori,  I have listened to your Toxic Men program and it has really taught me what have been doing wrong in relationships. I have been dealing with this toxic man for the last year. I have known this man for 12 years. We were involved 12 years ago for about 3 years. He was separated when we met and continued seeing each other after he went back to his wife, I know, bad mistake. I finally ended things after I moved out of state. He would still call and want to see me, but I felt that he had made his decision to be with his wife and it wasn’t right for him to continue to try to see me.

We lost touch for about 5 years, then I got a phone call about a year and a half ago, saying he was seperated “for real” and was sorry for how he had hurt me. I started things out as friends since I wanted to make sure the relationship with his wife was really over. When the divorce had been filed, I agreed to see him. I wanted to just be friends, but the chemistry between us is very strong and we developed a sexual relationship. We had an amazing time together and by the way he initially talked I thought we could finally be together as we had always dreamed.

Two months after we started seeing each other he told me about this other woman who he had been deeply involved with for the last year, and that was why he was getting divorced, his wife kicked him out of the house for having an affair. He told me he was trying to end things with her. I hung on for another 8 months, all the while he was “trying to end” the relationship with this other woman, seeing me and also seeing 2 other women. I did not expect a committent right off since he was going through a divorce.

He finally made a decision to move out of state to get away from this other woman. Initially I was so happy, I thought maybe he would change. He invited me to see him in his new town and when I arrived, he seemed nervous. It is a small town, and we went to dinner at one of the few restuarants and ran into a couple he knew. He immediately became uncomfortable and introduced me as “someone from out of state who is interviewing for a job”! I was devastated and when I confronted him after the fact, it came out that the woman in the couple was the sister of someone he had been seeing in a sexual relationship. He had told me he was only going out in groups, he hid the fact that he was in any kind of physical relationship with anyone.

When I asked him what he wanted out of our relationship he basically said he wanted a “stay home person” in the town, but a “travel companion” on the side, which would be me. He said he loved being with me and spending time with me, but could never be in a “one person” relationship. I really love this man, and after listening to your Toxic Man program, I realized I had been doing everything wrong. I told him I just wanted to be friends, that I did not want a physical relationship with him anymore. Even as a friend, he doesn’t call when he says he will, he does not answer my emails. I have been trying to use the feeling messages and have joined 2 online dating sites so I can start dating. I already have a lot I am doing on my own, I am in Karate, I go to the gym 6 days a week, hike and work insane hours.

I have always thought of myself as a very independent person, but my heart melts when I hear this man’s voice and he gets to me like no other. Is this a hopeless situation? He told me he and this other woman have been seeing each other quite a bit, he has even met her daughter and been on family functions. I feel like my heart is being ripped in two. I know I am probably “addicted” to the situation since I cant have him. I enjoy having this man as a friend, but I want more, but don’t know if it is even worth it anymore.

I am not very good with meeting other men, any suggestions on how I can put myself “out there” to start dating more? I am currently going through your modern siren program, I need all of the help I can get!

And here’s my very tough answer (and also very encouraging…) –

Renee  you’re not going to like this –it’s going to be tough love – PLEASE don’t read further if you don’t want to get hit in the head with my brick…I think this is what you need, because no one else in all this time who you trust at all has told you this…..

First – I want to say brava for going out, Circular Dating, going to the gym, taking care of yourself and at least reducing this man to “friend.” That said…I think you need an overview so your heart no longer melts when you think of him or hear his voice…or so that you can put that melting to good use – which is what Modern Siren will do for you –  to make yourself happy, instead of miserable.

SO..here it is:  I’m going to ask you – WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO YOURSELF??!!!

You’ve been wasting your time, your life, your love, your energy on this BAD man who only wants you for a booty call, for a girl when he runs out of women he’s REALLY attracted to, a “friend” who’s there when he needs her.  And, though you’ve made amazing progress for yourself – here you are still thinking about him….giving your energy to trying to figure out what to do to GET him.

He’s clueless and narcissistic and totally toxic. BUT – you still have feelings for him.

I can’t make your feelings go away, and I wouldn’t WANT to!  Your feelings are precious, there yours, they feed your soul.  Just because you feel for the WRONG man doesn’t mean you need to throw away all the feelings ASSOCIATED with that man.

You can take your feelings WITH you, into the next experience, and the next, until you become a person FULL of feeling, afraid of NONE.

To be clear now, with the hardest part of my reply to hear:

*** If he WANTED you, he would have been with you LONG AGO.  He is not.  Therefore, he doesn’t want you.  Not only is there NOTHING you can do strategically or in any other way to GET this man, there is no reason on this earth why you would WANT him.  He lies, he cheats, he’s a player, he’s a total child and immediate gratification man, and he is clearly attracted to and hung up on a specific type of woman who is NOT you.  There.

I know you believe the physical chemistry and sex and attraction you feel between you is significant – but it’s NOT.  It’s what YOU perceive is going on…but if it truly was what HE perceived…YOU’D be in a completely different situation with him. (And, if I’m right about this guy – you’d be in a WORSE position.  You’d likely be married to him, and he’d be cheating on YOU!)

Now — REALLY , really work with Toxic Men to keep you working on what it is in YOU that’s keeping you drawn to unavailable, toxic men – and with Modern Siren, which will teach you how to USE all the emotions you’re righteously and gloriously feeling, and then get Targeting Mr. Right to teach you exactly HOW, nuts-and-bolts – to Circular Date to make it WORK for you.  Fast.

I want you out there Circular Dating, building your self-esteem, and never, ever again coming NEAR a man like this who is not falling all over himself to be with you.

That, from now on, is your one, non-negotiable criteria for a man…he must be crazy about you, so you have no doubt.  You must be RECEIVING all the time.  No giving.  No waiting.  He must be able to DO a lifelong relationship.  He must be able to give.  He must be able to take the good with the bad, to “catch” your feelings, to want to work through things with you.  He must be able to be there for the long haul – because he WANTS to.  He must be a GOOD man.

Love, Rori


  1.  #1alias girl on November 2, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    YES YES YES YES AND YES! rrrrr. oooh i feel the fire in rori! I feel the claiming one’s own life back and being open and free with men who CHERISH me. who are Constantly giving to me, who i am Constantly receiving from.


    renee i feel no judgment about your situation. many women have been there to more or less degrees, including myself. i feel supportive and hopeful you will tap into your true value and work rori’s tools and programs until you become comfortable with receiving and intimacy.

    i also feel no judgement for this man. in fact, he has been honest with renee about what he wants and what has happened with his wife etc.

    i feel compassion. *Imaginary* relationships are so comfortable and intoxicating because I can create them to my Ideals without actually having to risk being intimate or really seen or learning how to receive or be honest. I can just pine away for this ideal *Imaginary* relationship that will never come to be. and thus, i never have to really confront my vulnerable self. i can be my “ideal” self in my “idealized” world in my *imaginary* relationship. meanwhile remaining unfulfilled and unchallenged to truly love and enjoy life.

    yae for rori! i feel great love and admiration.

  2.  #2Bethany on November 2, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    Yes! No waiting!

    I feel super pissed about this. What kind of Antichrist is this guy that can literally charm the pants off of so many women and expect Renee to be okay as the “traveling” girl or something. Oh god, I feel sick thinking about how some people can be so callous. I feel angry. I feel bad for Renee and I feel scared because an attachment feels so soul-splitting when it’s not what you really want but you can’t figure out how to pull away. Circular dating, circular dating…

    This guy I went to college with and ran into at the bar over Halloween, who then asked me if Chris and I had “broken up,” facebooked me and apologized if he was rude. I took the opportunity to explain to him that it didn’t feel rude to me and I explained that we are in fact “dating” but that I want to keep my options open and don’t want to be anyone’s exclusive girlfriend. Why did he ask? Who knows but I felt good putting it out there.

  3.  #3Mercedes on November 2, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    “*** If he WANTED you, he would have been with you LONG AGO. He is not. Therefore, he doesn’t want you. Not only is there NOTHING you can do strategically or in any other way to GET this man, there is no reason on this earth why you would WANT him. He lies, he cheats, he’s a player, he’s a total child and immediate gratification man, and he is clearly attracted to and hung up on a specific type of woman who is NOT you. There.”

    WOW!!!!! I couldn’t have said it better myself…this is EXACTLY what I was thinking when I was reading the post!! Men who want us will find a way to be with us. Men who deny us in public, tell us they want us as a “travel companion” and hide us from the world are doing nothing other than using us for sex. They can say all the right things in the moment so we do have that sex with them, but…nope…he’s using you Renee and the longer you allows that to happen, the lower your self-esteem will go.

    Boundaries Renee…I’ve been there…I allowed myself to be used and cheated on and hidden. It’ll NEVER happen again. When you are able to tap into your anger (beyond the despair is the anger) and set your boundaries and BELIEVE you deserve better and DEMAND better…your entire life will change. Everything around you will change and the universe will be yours for the taking.

    I’ll be thinking of you…

    Much Love,

  4.  #4Paula on November 2, 2009 at 4:32 pm

    I’m so sorry he’s using you Renee. I know what it’s like to love a toxic man (or at least toxic for me) and give so much energy to him. I hope we can both break free.

    Mercedes, I like your comment “beyond the despair is the anger”. I’ve rarely felt angry with my ex (even though he was not faithful or honest with me) but I’ve felt plenty of despair. My friend said it’s your love for him that keeps you from feeling angry.

    It’s late at night here and I got Modern Siren in the post. I’m too tired to listen but I looked at the book. Wow, Rori you recommend Thich Nath Hanhs books. I spent 8 months in his monastery last year (getting over said unfaithful ex….). I must be on the right track with both of you.

    Sometimes, I think, but I am MORE than my feelings. My feelings are just a part of me, not the whole of me. I’m not sure about this stuff.

    So maybe I can learn from you both. Don’t know but I feel so re-assured by the link between you both.

    OK, I’m going to bed – too tired to make sense 🙂


  5.  #5Paula on November 2, 2009 at 4:45 pm

    In my PJ’s now but just had a thought WHY can I accept only crumbs? If I received a full cake (attention, respect, love) from a man, It might be too rich for me. I couldn’t digest it. So how to get used to receiving or feeling deserving of cake? Baby steps maybe…..

  6.  #6tinque on November 2, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    Paula – Definitely little nibbles by little nibbles. It does feel weird, awkward, uncomfortable in the beginning. The urge to reciprocate will be strong.
    Soon you will be taking a BIG bite. Next thing you know, scarfing the whole cake, and guess what? NO CALORIES.

  7.  #7Linda on November 2, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    It is so easy to see a bad thing when we are not the with the heart tangled up in it.

    Having lived through some of this in various ways, my red flag meter has sooo many more flags. Learning always learning. TOLERATE nothing!…. no Waiting!… he is not even a friend… a friend calls, emails, doesnt ignore. Who in the heck wants a “friend” like that. That is not what I consider friendship material.

    NOW about the ability to digest a full cake (attentions, love, respect).., OH YEAH…. bring it on… I am sooo hungry and ready to receive and eat CAKE!

    For all you girls that have a great relationship going, dont worry about the dos and donts.. feel girls…dont worry… be happy.


  8.  #8Bethany on November 2, 2009 at 5:27 pm

    When I was with Chris last weekend, I tried to pay attention to how I felt around him. I felt tired. I felt resentful because I was driving and he called me and then rushed me off the phone. I felt quiet. I felt bothered. I felt clammed up. I felt turned on. I felt like I was having fun. I felt ignored. I felt angry.

    I don’t understand. I feel so not good enough. He told me that when there is silence on the phone, it bothers him and he doesn’t know if we are compatible that way because he “connects” with people by talking. He said he needs that because he has a big, loud Irish family and he said it’s not a deficiency in me, maybe it’s just one way we’re not compatible, but says we are compatible in other areas.

    I feel so angry. I feel like screaming at him, “look jackass, I DO connect with people by talking–I just don’t feel comfortable talking to you because you talk about yourself all the time and I can’t get a word in edgewise!”

    He’s so not into me. I feel stupid.

    If he was crazy about me, this wouldn’t be a problem.

    Maybe I should just break it off. Before he gets to dump me.

    I feel sorrow. Just pure, sharp sorrow.

    All of a sudden I feel like not going to Minneapolis, to avoid him. If I move there is he tainting it for me? I want a fresh start. Can I make it my own place when his energy is there? I don’t know. But I also have this hope that SOMEDAY, if I do all the circular dating right, he will just pop back in and be the right guy for me.

    I feel stupid.

    It feels so unfair.

    I feel sad and I have to go teach through this feeling.

    I feel so worthless. I WANT TO BE ENOUGH.

    Where are you, circular dating prospects? If you don’t show up soon, I’m just not going to ever leave my apartment again. I’m going to curl up and never leave this town and South Dakota. I feel self-destructive.

    I feel like exploding. I feel like I need a hug. I miss my family. I just want a hug from my mom. I am going to suck at teaching tonight. I never do it right.

    I feel so encouraged by all the words here but I need to get this man out of my system. I feel sad.


    “Chris, I just wanted to let you know that I won’t be coming to visit this weekend.”

    Him: “Oh…why?”

    Me: “I’ve noticed that I’m always driving to you, and I don’t want to drive to men.”

    Him: “But I’m so busy/it makes sense because I’m coming to South Dakota anyway/I really want to see you…blah, blah, blah.”

    Me: “It feels fun to see you but I feel exhausted when I’m always driving. Last weekend didn’t really feel that healthy for me and I just need to keep my body away for a bit. I feel angry at the suggestion that I don’t connect by talking, because I do. I realized that it’s hard to never see you, and I realized that I don’t feel 100% comfortable because I can feel a sort of one-foot-in-one-foot-out thing here and it makes me feel very nervous and makes it hard for me to relax. I don’t expect you to do anything, I just wanted to say that.”

    Him: “What do you mean not healthy?”

    Me: “I don’t want to have casual sex–and I wouldn’t have if I hadn’t been drinking. I feel glad that it happened in a way because I finally can feel and get what’s been bothering me about it. I CAN have that sort of ‘do me now’ sex but it needs to be supported by a base of love and I don’t feel that here. I’m interested in a love thing and this doesn’t feel that way.”

    Ladies–thoughts about my speech please? Is it too “explaining” things to him?

    Thank you.

  9.  #9alias girl on November 2, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    i feel unsure. i am moving into a new experimental phase with circular dating. i am going to go on dates with men i have absolutely zero interest in.

    and i don’t know how to do this and still be honest with my feeling messages because “i feel like punching you in the face.” just seems really too harsh and my own problem really. i mean to feel inspired to punch someone in the face really has everything to do with me and not the man in front of me.

    also i feel unsure about these men who email me and so many write “how are you?” and that’s it. i feel like punching these men in the face as well. sometimes i write back “hi, how are you?” which is totally passive aggressive.

    but “hi how are you” just feels like limp dick lazy uncreative no energy coming my way as a first email to a goddess.

    i know. i know i am impossible and i just have all these defenses and reasons why not give men a chance. I KNOW THIS. that is why i am here writing all my embarrassing crap so i can find a better way to BE.

    SO my question is, is it dishonest to not say “i feel like punching you in the face”? even that is my most prominant feeling? what would rori suggest?

    do i just say the more polite feelings? i feel good to be on a date? i feel curious to meet you and know more about you.

    which way do i go with this? but if a guy could swing with “i feel like punching you in the face” and not take it personal i would probably feel more connected to him.

    i feel confused.

  10.  #10Mary Ann on November 2, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    I’m trying to circular date with online dating which is annoying me, but I just read an interesting profile, where he said:
    If you understand the following poem, then I want to talk to you.

    tell me about yourself, Let me in
    Tell me about your dreams, let me be part of them
    Tell me about your fears, Let me protect you from them
    Tell me about your wishes, let me fulfill them
    Tell me about your heart, let me love you
    Tell me about yourself, let me in

    can I just say…once you start to listen its pretty clear what men want.

  11.  #11Nikita on November 2, 2009 at 7:14 pm

    That poem sounds like “justify my love”
    By Madonna

  12.  #12Rori Raye on November 2, 2009 at 7:16 pm

    Oooooo – Mary Ann – this is great! See – it’s about heart, not sex. We’ve been brainwashed. This is truly the truth for men. And…the last line might be….”So I can feel safe enough and excited enough to let YOU in.”

  13.  #13Rori Raye on November 2, 2009 at 7:19 pm

    Alias Girl – the simple question “How are you?” is a magnificent request for you to open up to him. You say “I feel ……(hot, sticky, nervous, irritated, angry, overwhelmed, tired, excited by work, thrilled by the warm weather, afraid of the holidays…..) – what you can say here is as infinite as your feelings. What’s happening to you is you’re instantly judging the person asking…when all you need to do is take it as an invitation. So what if it’s uncreative? Perhaps he’ll turn out to be a man who’d like to hear how you feel about life…without judgment. Love, Rori

  14.  #14Tina on November 2, 2009 at 7:20 pm

    Give that man a tight slap and never look back.


  15.  #15Rori Raye on November 2, 2009 at 7:25 pm

    Bethany – I think what you’ve said here is beautiful and true and real. You feel uncomfortable merely listening at level 2 because you feel unheard when you do speak. Is that true? This will all get clear for you when you get a sense that there are other men out there for you. As long as you stay in the belief that it’s a desert out there man-wise, the harder you’ll work for Chris and the worse you’ll feel and the angrier you’ll get. I really think he’s good practice. He triggers you so tremendously. Nearly anything you do or say, if it’s true to what you feel, is going to be a terrific learning experience, until you meet someone else, you’re done with Chris, or you speak clearly enough to him that you stop feeling uncomfortable…my sense is that’s not what this relationship is about…and that you deserve SO much better. Love, Rori

  16.  #16Rori Raye on November 2, 2009 at 7:27 pm

    Oh, my, Paula, when you have time, will you share with us about your monastery experience? …here, in you, we have our very own “Eat, Pray, Love…” girl, and now it’s time for the “love” part! Love, Rori

  17.  #17Mary Ann on November 2, 2009 at 7:48 pm

    I feeling like the messages are being thrown at me right now lol!!

    Here’s another one:

    Days and Nights may be the almost the same repeats.. it is the spiritual rising star that I hope to catch a glimpse of. It is you. Your energy.. the life within you that would radiate if it just had that spark.. let me be that spark..

    it’s crazy! lol!

  18.  #18Nikita on November 2, 2009 at 9:08 pm

    Grr… Feed me love

  19.  #19Mary Ann on November 2, 2009 at 9:23 pm

    spoons and forks full of love for you Nikita!!

  20.  #20Bethany on November 2, 2009 at 9:40 pm

    He called, and I gave (part of) my speech. I said it feels imbalanced to drive, and he started to argue with me that he’s driving just as much if not more (BUT, keep in mind, he’s going to these places regardless of whether I go meet him or not)…and it sounded so RATIONAL and I almost caved. I felt guilty and I said “I feel at a loss for words…” and he apologized for the driving, said he felt bad. Then he said he felt bad for the sex…that it happened twice…ugh. I said, for me it feels easier to not do that when I don’t drink so much. He sounded tired when he got off the phone, said he’d call me tomorrow.

    I feel guilty. I feel like I’m irrational and silly. SHOULDN’T I go meet him? Is it really the driving? Or the other stuff? I don’t know. All I know is I feel like I did something wrong. I feel like I pushed him away. I feel bad, bad, bad…I love my guilt. I feel like my guilt is a puppy that has been abused and it’s scared and thinks it’s wrong just for loving people. I want to pick it up and cuddle it and make it forget having been hurt by humans. I feel bad like I don’t want this to be a huge point of contention–HE doesn’t think there’s an imbalance. But I do. Grrrr. I feel angry and yet I feel sort of relieved and I want to read The Artist’s Way and go to bed.

  21.  #21Bethany on November 2, 2009 at 9:41 pm

    Rori–Thanks for your words. I’m working on getting out of the desert.

  22.  #22renee on November 2, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    Thanks for telling me what I know I needed to hear. It has been difficult letting go. I did want to clarify something which is a little confusing. During the 5 years that we were not talking he wrote me numerous letters telling me he was sorry and how much he loved me, he even came to the city where I lived and begged to see me, but I refused and told him I would not see him until he was divorced. Until a month ago he was trying to talk me into moving closer to him to see how things would work out. I don’t understanf why he tried so hard to get me back and now that he has me he doesn’t want me. I know I was at a vulnerable place, my daughter had been very ill and I had some serious health problems and before he contacted me, had literally not dated for 6 years. After this kind of blow to my fragile self esteem, I don’t know how to bounce back. I had also been in a marraige 18 yrs ago in which my husband physically abused myself and my daughter and literally fled for my life. I know I have some serious issues I need to face that is why I must be attracting these toxic men into my life. Thanks again for your insight and tough love, I know its what I need right now.

  23.  #23alias girl on November 2, 2009 at 10:27 pm

    *HUG* bethany.

    and big cakes of love for you nikita. endless amounts of love for you to have as much as you need and want. and lots of grapes and naked lounging also! 😉

    thank you, rori. i can feel all my defenses are just so UP with online men. i mean with men in real life also, but not AS much with men in real life. I just feel so Threatened by these strange men online who it feels like all they want is sex sex sex. in real life i can feel the vibe better. I am more graceful in my interactions now with men in real life. they enjoy talking to me. they often ask me out. but with these online men i feel terrorized by this process. but i also feel like it is good practice so i keep doing it. though there have been times i have just completely deleted my entire profile out of hopelessness.

    i feel very hard on myself these last few days. very slave driver ish regarding money and income. hours and hours and hours all day all day all day get a job, get ajob get a job. get money get money get money…

    fix your entire life right NOW alias girl. bad bad bad loser alias girl. 🙁 oooh ok here comes the heat and tears again.

    chanel chanel chanel chanel oooh yes the lovely chanel store on rodeo drive. oooh yes how lovely.



  24.  #24alias girl on November 2, 2009 at 10:29 pm

    and big hug to you also renee. i just read your comment. you are in a good place here. you can heal a lot.

  25.  #25alias girl on November 2, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    i had this unconscious belief system in the past that i have decided to replace.

    i had this belief that it was not ok to be an equal human being to an employer or co-workers. that i literally had to play “less than” (while simultaneously considering myself better than. such are the dynamics of crippling low self esteem.)

    i also had the belief system that not only was i not to express boundaries of being expected to be treated like a dignified and respected human being, not only was i not to Express these boundaries, but i was not even to Have them.

    i learned this from my family. i am currently unlearning this. i seem to be creating situations where i need to establish boundaries of self respect and by doing so i have been “punished”. i feel curious. i feel like i just rewrote myself and my future scripts just now. this what i keep doing. i keep just telling the truth and practicing expressing myself and the quality of my entire life will get better because my self esteem improves. and as my self esteem improves my thoughts and feelings i have about myself and my future and my relationships all improve as well.

    i feel VERY HOPEFUL right now. wow. wow. pshew. i feel like i can breathe.

    my slave girl days are very over. thank you.

  26.  #26alias girl on November 2, 2009 at 10:52 pm

    sometimes what is a huge epiphany and break through for me as i am writing looks like gobbeldy gook on the siren blog. ah well.

    thank you for my easy uncomplicated happy life. thank you for my easy state of being. thank you for my gratitude. thank you for my hopefulness. thank you for the lightening of what felt like a burden. thank you for this life. thank you for joy and fun and good times and laughter. and whole cakes and roses and boquets of flowers and gondola rides and love notes. and kisses!

  27.  #27Tracy on November 2, 2009 at 11:31 pm

    I feel compassion for you…..many of us have gone through the same thing and this is a good place to start……
    I know for sure that anyone can regain their esteem and move on up to a really good place that feels safe and have a good relationship and live an even better life…
    U are in a good place and i feel that with baby steps and working hard on loving yourself,life only gets better and better…i have watched it happen to so many of us i am awed….

  28.  #28Soignée on November 3, 2009 at 12:25 am

    Oh my God, this story of Renee is similar to a story of mine when very long ago I was in love with such a toxic man. I ask you Renee please stop seeing this person. He is dangerous for your soul, your heart, your life. You will get stuck in your life with such an a…hole (sorry). I remember the same icky feelings when I went out with him. He was an absolute bad man to me. I did not live then. I dreamt of some day with him. Thanks God, it never happened and will never happen. So much mess on you!! He is rubbish in your life, Renèe. There are so many good people in the world. And someone will be really in love with you. It will be one of the biggest mistakes of your life to see him. Please stop. As soon as possible. Save yourself from this rubbish.

  29.  #29Soignée on November 3, 2009 at 12:36 am

    If you stop to want the LESS, you will get the MORE.

  30.  #30Paula on November 3, 2009 at 2:17 am

    I really wish healing for you Renee. I feel glad you’re here. I hope you’ll be gentle with yourself because you’ve heard some very tough things.

    I’ll share a little about my monastery experience, Rori. I don’t want to proselityse.

    I left my job, my house and country to go and start a new life. And I thought that it would be good to spend 2 weeks in a buddhist monastery to start with. I knew nothing about Thich Nhat Hanh except (I had heard) that his books are about being happy right here, right now and about love. He’s a small, humble, very funny, 82 year old vietnamese monk.

    I’m a lazy meditator and I don’t like getting up at 5am but I became really happy living a simple life. Getting up early, sharing a dorm with 3-5 other women, working (washing pots, cleaning toilets), walking in the beautiful countryside, sitting by the lotus pond, laughing with the joyful young nuns and (cute) monks, sharing from my heart, singing A LOT, listening to Thay talk.

    I stayed and stayed and became happier and happier and I healed a lot. I’m not completely over my ex but I am not in despair anymore and I feel much more peaceful and happy with a simple life.

    Yes, I’ve done the Pray part (fantastic book Eat, Pray, Love) and now I want to learn to eat cake and I do want to learn to LOVE.

    Thanks Rori and thanks to all the women who post here.

  31.  #31alias girl on November 3, 2009 at 2:46 am

    i feel good to read all these supportive comments for renee.

    thank you paula for sharing that. i feel fascinated.

    a simple life appeals to me. i would like to divide my time: half a year living a simple life and half a year living a complicated and glamorous life. i am serious.

  32.  #32Tracy on November 3, 2009 at 3:11 am

    I also want the very same thing……a simple side of life with a family and love around me….and a glamorous one….maybe with a bit of professional gait added to it…..sounds like fun!


    “If you stop to want the LESS, you will get the MORE.”
    This just summarizes my limited belief that has brought a lot of discord to my life….the wanting of less and always feeling as though i needed to control or add on to the relationship to really make it work…..
    sometimes i even unconsciously make decisions where i am always putting everyone else before me…
    I love everything i am learning about taking care of myself……Its providing explanations not only to my relationships but my work life as well…i feel really grateful….
    Just this morning i needed to get a recommendation to get my passport done and i thought my boss would do it for me but to my surprise he declined and in not so many words i felt rejected and angry and distrusted….
    I managed to get someone else to do it for me…..
    I have been trying to ask myself why i felt so bad,and i feel that because for whatever reason my boss did not feel like recommending me,i started to feel insecure and rejected…..i need to work on building my self esteem and always feeling safe with myself no matter what others may feel about me….
    I love me and that is all that matters….

  33.  #33Katie on November 3, 2009 at 4:00 am

    Renee – a hug and strength and lightness <3

  34.  #34Katie on November 3, 2009 at 4:13 am

    There is always an easy time early on in a relationship in my experience. Then, some time later say about a year or two later things get much tougher. Truth pops it’s head around the door and reality is not always what we wanted or expected it to be.

    This feeling of reality can be good AND painful at the same time. I am okay with SOME pain to get to the good bits and the ‘glue’ is hope. Isn’t that how life works? Problem is that tolerance of pain can be high, too high for our own good. We need to know when it is doing us no favours to stay locked in on one man. I don’t know if I am making sense here, but just thoughts passing through.

  35.  #35Soignée on November 3, 2009 at 5:14 am

    Dear Tracy, dear Renée, dear Ladies

    Please try to memorize this nice-one of my favourite quates-

    It is a funny thing about life; if you refuse to accept anything but the best you very often get it.
    W. Somerset Maugham


  36.  #36FEMENERGYLOVE on November 3, 2009 at 5:49 am

    renee,i am where you are,in love with a toxic man.why do i believe i can do something,be something other than myself to win this man?if he wanted me he would have moved heaven and earth to be with me.i want to feel,work through all there emotions and not carry them into my next relationship.rori,do you encourage immediately going into circular dating?i feel i need just a little time to accept this truth,let it sink into my heart,form my boundaries and work out how i’m going to carry these feelings for him forward with me to where i’m not incapacitated at all.how do i not feel my chest freeze when i think of him.how do i just feel the disappointment of not being with him and move on.how do you handle the fear?i think starting with powerful positive affirmation about myself is a beginning.becaue my wrong thinking says he did not pick me because i’m not good enough.THAT’S A LIE.also why is it so hard for me with this guy?my heart answers because i gave my all,that was wrong because he needed to do the giving.ugh…

  37.  #37Soignée on November 3, 2009 at 7:15 am

    I feel angry. I really feel very angry, how we permit someone else to treat us as second-class good girl. How we can permit someone to come into our life with their arrogance to laugh at us, at our feelings, at our heart, soul, our vulnerability, our beauty? Are they God to decide who we are?

    Why do we let someone into our life only to put us so down? Who are these people we do listen to? Why are we so stupid to be the women who they can consider to drop off their rubbish on?
    I feel really really angry with these people who value us as their servants!!! Do you want to be their servants, to be good women they can only use?

    I liked a Jewish legend that God gave us our beauty, talents and he wants at the end of our life to see what we made of it.
    So why do we have to hide the talents, our beauty, our kindness? Why are we selling us so short?

    Our world can be so limited, we see only this a..hole who makes us cry, so we can not live normally? We think and think on these people who make us suffer. Why do not we think of people who make us good? Who make us live? Who make us smile?

    The man can be an added value to our life. Not the cause of stress and tears!!!

    Oh my God, I feel really really upset when I hear such stories like Renèe’s. Because I lost so much time thinking on a man who made me only cry.

    I am right now healed. And also Rorie helped me so much. So please Renée do not see this man. Do not see anyone who hurts you. In friendship, in family, in love, at work. Avoid them. Do not listen to these stupid people. You only you know your mistakes, they do not need to show you your mistakes. The people in your small world have to be good to you.
    Do not listen to anybody who diminuish you!!! Stop seeing a..holes!!

  38.  #38Soignée on November 3, 2009 at 7:25 am

    FEMENERGYLOVE I feel sorry for you. I can imagine what you feel. I felt the same. But give the love you give not to someone else but to you.

  39.  #39Mercedes on November 3, 2009 at 7:35 am

    Paula: “I’ve rarely felt angry with my ex (even though he was not faithful or honest with me) but I’ve felt plenty of despair.”

    So much of the time we don’t feel the anger because we haven’t set our boundaries solid. When we set boundaries and truly, truly live them, we get angry when someone disrespects them. For me, it all began with boundaries…once I had those, I was able to tap into the anger at myself for allowing the treatment and anger at HIM for treating me that way. The anger comes later though…it comes after you learn to respect your own boundaries and you learn to love them because you know how safe they keep you.

    It took me a long, long time though…longer than I would like to admit, even to myself.

    Much Love,

  40.  #40tinque on November 3, 2009 at 7:47 am

    Paul – What an amazing opportunity and experience. Thich Nhat Hanh is special. I’ve heard him speak three times. He comes to LA every two years. It’s always around K’s birthday time. Such a git for both of us. This year sadly I had to give the tickets away since we suddenly had to move to CT. They went to a most appreciative and special woman too, so in this I feel good. My favorite book of his is Living Buddha, Living Christ.

    femenergylove – circular dating isn’t just about going our on dates with men. It’s about taking you out, making you feel wanted and special, if only for a cup of coffee. It’s about connecting with others, men included, out in your daily life if only briefly as in a look and a smile. It’s keeping yourself of this world and not buried inside yourself mourning.

  41.  #41Aldonza on November 3, 2009 at 9:03 am

    “*** If he WANTED you, he would have been with you LONG AGO. He is not. Therefore, he doesn’t want you. Not only is there NOTHING you can do strategically or in any other way to GET this man, there is no reason on this earth why you would WANT him. He lies, he cheats, he’s a player, he’s a total child and immediate gratification man, and he is clearly attracted to and hung up on a specific type of woman who is NOT you. There.”

    *stands up and cheers*

    I think it’s hard to hear. We scour the ‘net looking for the way to make a man like this see what a perfect prize we are…it’s futile. Toxic men are toxic. They take our precious energy and give nothing in return. For some reason we get addicted to the tiny splashes of attention they give us. And it seems they have a very finely-tuned barometer for exactly how little to give us to still get our energy.

    You’re fortunate. This man is *telling you* in words what a piece of trash he is. So many men like that continue to try to paint a pretty picture and refuse to admit the truth: they just want the easy booty when they want it.

    When a man tells you something about himself: believe him.


  42.  #42tinque on November 3, 2009 at 9:18 am

    oops, sorry Paula…

  43.  #43Simply Shannon on November 3, 2009 at 9:21 am

    This post resonates with me on soooo many levels. I’ve been in Renee’s shoes. I’ve allowed MYSELF to be in the same place far too many times. And I had such anger for me and for the man that it ate me alive for years. I felt depressed and sad and rage towards most men. I’m fighting this rage towards men to this day. (I assume the worst with men. I assume that they will be bad to me. I do NOT want to assume the worst anymore. I want to be curious.)

    Here’s another insight I’m beginning to recognize about myself:

    No one chooses to hurt me on purpose. Most people are just doing what feels good to them. At some basic level aren’t we all? And aren’t we all hoping that we can get away with having our cake and eating it too? Some people are honest and upfront about it and some aren’t. *I* am choosing what I will and will not tolerate and allow in my life. ME… not anyone else. *I* need to start paying attention to both the verbal and nonverbal cues people give me. I need to pay attention to how I feel when things happen. I need to share my feelings and not stuff them down or write them off as me being freaked or weird about something. “Oh, that didn’t feel good. What just happened?” Ignoring my feelings from the beginning got me to the middle (and the end) thinking “I knew all along that XYZ acted this way. I just ignored it or dismissed it.” Does anyone else do that? Look back and see all the signs that we ignored and dismissed as our own baggage?? Where you get that “duh, I’m so stupid” moment that smacks you upside the head?

    People give themselves away if I just listen. Instead of telling myselves “he didn’t really mean he doesn’t want a relationship” or better yet “he’ll miss me when I’m gone and beg to get me back”, I can release these people from my life. Not boot them out (unless that’s called for) but just release them like dropping a leaf in a river. If they come back and I feel good around them, then great, but if they don’t, that’s fine too.

    I feel complete empathy with Renee. I’ve been there, and a part of me is still there. I miss men that I shouldn’t even think about anymore. And that’s okay. I can have those feelings but I don’t have to act on them. I don’t have to DO anything but BE ME.

  44.  #44nikita on November 3, 2009 at 9:27 am


    this may be hard to believe……but I live by this and quote it to my girlfriends and roomie ALL OF THE TIME..


    It is a funny thing about life; if you refuse to accept anything but the best you very often get it.
    W. Somerset Maugham

  45.  #45Mary Ann on November 3, 2009 at 9:28 am

    High five Shannon!

    You took the words right out of my mouth.

  46.  #46jinny on November 3, 2009 at 9:29 am

    Just stand up, and don’t give up in your life. stand up for yourself and your daughter. I know You can do it. so do I and all of us. lets hold our hands together we are strong 🙂

  47.  #47Simply Shannon on November 3, 2009 at 9:30 am

    Alias Girl: Okay, I have to say I feel so excited that I’m in the same place as you! I always feel so enlightened when I read your posts and to know we’re having the same feelings… well that just makes me want to get in the bouncy house!! *** bounce *** bounce *** bounce***

    Men who send me short opening emails get on my nerves too! It makes me feel like I have to do the work to get the conversation going. I feel the need to look through their profile to find something, anything, to help us get started. What Rori said is brilliant! Short feeling message back. No work on my part. Just answering his question.

    Rori: What about when a man’s comment is literally “wow you’re beautiful, just want to say hi”. I get this so much and I don’t know how to respond. Just “thank you”?? Maybe I’ll just try that because that’s all that pops in my head when I see those messages. He’ll either respond back with more or he won’t and we’ll just sit there. Or how about “thank you! that feels great to hear!”

    And one more thing AG: I just decided to do the “date men I have zero interest in” too! Yeah, I’m following in AG’s footsteps! Here we go girl!


  48.  #48Mary Ann on November 3, 2009 at 9:45 am

    ok, so I just read your Yummy Pie tool email, and I can totally see how this works, but here’s my problem.

    There was a time where I could get any man I wanted, I was younger and very attractive and much more confident. (sick how I feel so wrong to say that…like who do I think I am or was?) I found myself in many situations of having to reject men I wasn’t attracted to. I always felt guilty and sad about that and felt that maybe I was doing something to lead them on. I felt better with the guys I knew “could take it” if I changed my mind about them. I guess this is where I began accepting “less” and giving up my power.
    As I write this I’m thinking about how guys would always call women “tease” if things got a bit hot but they didn’t “put out”. More guilt and there began my sleeping with men too early.
    If I state my boundaries up front, will the guilt go away? Is there a way to reject a man without feeling so horrible?

  49.  #49Simply Shannon on November 3, 2009 at 9:58 am

    Mary Ann: I struggle with this one too.

    Does anyone have any suggestions for saying “I just don’t feel a romantic connection”? (For the record, I’ve said that at least twice now and even though it felt good to tell the truth, those words did not feel good.) In most case, I might be feeling good and enjoying the experience but I’m just not feeling romantic/non-friend feelings for the man in front of me.

    As for the sex thing, I am struggling here too. This is a matter of me deciding to wait until I know I won’t have bad feelings about it afterwards. I can say “I don’t feel good having sex outside of a safe, committed relationship.” For me, the trick is going to be saying it like I mean every word versus saying it like I’m apologizing to the man for not giving it up! 😉 I need this to be a boundary for me. I cave on this one alot more than I care to admit. I allow my old thinking to creep in and convince me it’s okay in the moment but 90% of the time, I feel BAD about it afterwards.

  50.  #50Tina on November 3, 2009 at 10:41 am

    Hey, there is two tinas hahaha. Alias girl, I had to laugh when you said “I feel like punching you in the face” lol, I feel at times this is what I want to say, but instead I go straight to feeling messages, I love my feeling messages. I feel like punching you in the face lol to funny. I”m going out for a drive with my cancelled hunting date, He’s letting me drive his truck lol, he has to drive for two hours to get here then asked me if I have a license and possibly drive for a few hours, that means he would be driving for a total of 8 hrs, I said yes I would, I feel happy to drive. I cancelled all and I am saying to no any sleep overs , anything really that would put me in a position of being in a possible sleeping situation does not feel good for me right now. I would really feel like feeling a lot of face punching for sure.

    I feel bad for Renee, it’s harder to hear, hey basically he doesn’t want you, because if he did he would have been there along time ago. I feel that is worse than hearing my friends say “oh just move on” When I hear those words I feel like sticking around, god I dont know why lol. He doesn’t want you , I feel that my insecurities and fear come shining in through in all its glory, in my face and splattered all over the place. I woke up to that fact a few months ago, I felt so hurt, so much pain ugh I wanted to just curl up and hide under a rock. I dont feel that strongly about it anymore, I do get those feelings back once in awhile, when I heard he went trick or treating with his kids and her, *sniffle. oh god now I feel like crap again. I feel sad, for a minute. please feelings dont bring me down this road again!, I WANT ME OK NOW FCK OFF! Im having a love/hate relationship with my feelings right now blah. I remember when I first saw him I didn’t like him, I felt stiff in my body, I couldnt breath and relax, like he was made of plastic, not real. I wanted to punch him in the face lol, to see if he was real. I wondered if he breathed like EVER, he was in his bubble, even when I was with him, except when we had sex hahaha, I felt like I was his teacher though, grrr bad student lol. Only through sex did I finally FEEL I saw that place know one has been, not even him. Bubble boy, nice place to visit but I wouldn’t want to live there haha. I came to realize that I was his stepping stone, I would never be the one awe, I feel bad again dammit! Bubble boy leave me alone lol. He felt mechanical to me, like a robot. I was lonely when I decided to sleep with him , go figure.

    I dont think it is leaning forward to drive for a few hours, he asked so yeah. We did make out down by the river, we swam, me on his back, swimming like two fishes hehe. This guy feels like another bubble boy grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. now I want to punch him in the face lol. FEELINGS YES THATS RIGHT MY FEELINGS. HE DRINKS GREEN TEA, WHY DONT YOU DRINK STRONG BLACK STRAIGHT UP COFFEE LIKE A MANLY MAN. OK IT’S HIS CHOICE, HE USED TO DRINK COFFEE LIKE A MANLY MAN BUT HE GAVE IT UP FOR GOOD REASONS OK OK. HE FEELS FEMANINE TO ME GRRR. I WANT TO MAN HIM UP. GRRR. OK GOT TO STOP THIS.

  51.  #51Bethany on November 3, 2009 at 10:50 am

    Shannon: Seems to me you feel conflicted about the sex thing, like I do. Am I right, wrong? You kind of want to, kind of don’t, maybe. Caving is easy when you aren’t “congruent” about how you feel about it–at least that’s how I’m beginning to see it for myself. But the words you put down here are strong. One thing that has helped me is having my “rock”–do you have Modern Siren? It’s in there. If I’m on the phone saying stuff, I hold a rock in my hand and let it be strong for me so I can get my words out and sound more like I mean every word and not apologizing…but yeah! I feel that struggle too…not wanting to sound apologetic…anyway, the rock helps a bit…

  52.  #52Tina on November 3, 2009 at 10:53 am

    Simply Shannon, I have never said, I dont feel a romantic connection, I just use feeling messages, even when I dont feel a romantic connection. My dating men and not having sex is as far as I feel I have to go with these guys, I’ll date them as long as they are around lol. I feel so much better because I am starting to get to know the one’s that do on a much different level. I have never said “I dont feel a romantic connection” Rather I would say, I feel uncomfortable, I feel pressured, I feel offended, I feel all warm and fuzzy hehe, I like that one, but the bottom line is I dont feel that having sex right now for me is feels good for me, I feel hesitant, oh I could go on and on, there is a whole bunch of feelings in my s oup 🙂 refer to Docks list hehehe.

  53.  #53Tina on November 3, 2009 at 10:54 am

    and they do FALL TO THE WAY SIDE, even the ones I may like or feel CONNECTED to. I’m just like oh whatever haha.

  54.  #54Bethany on November 3, 2009 at 10:56 am

    WHY is a guy such a prize if he doesn’t WANT us? It feels so twisted that we fall for that automatically. I know the guy I liked 8 years ago at the beginning of college, who I wanted then but didn’t want me, he is crazy puppy dog in love with me now, and I really don’t have one drop of romantic interest in him. I CARE about him as a friend, but a lover? No. Effing. Way.

    Maybe it was growing up and getting older, getting more experience, a little better self-esteem, but I lean back so much with him naturally and he’s nuts about me now. My point is I feel like it’s possible to get OVER the hormonal urges. There’s more to it. I often feel helpless and scared of my chemical bond to Chris but this guy from college is PROOF that it doesn’t have to be that way. We CAN feel “whatever” about a guy we used to pine away for. So I feel hopeful for Renee, is what I’m trying to get at. Big hugs Renee.

  55.  #55Rori Raye on November 3, 2009 at 10:56 am

    Welcome, Jinny, and thank you for your encouraging words. Love, Rori

  56.  #56Bethany on November 3, 2009 at 10:57 am

    How are we going to tell the Tinas apart?!

  57.  #57Tina on November 3, 2009 at 10:57 am

    Bethany, that is great, as a matter of fact, I have a rock, its a painted rock i received, it has my name painted on it in purple and yellow, with flowers on one side. my rock my rock my rock i mustnt forget my rock yeah! 🙂

  58.  #58Rori Raye on November 3, 2009 at 11:11 am

    Georgia, Welcome, and I’ve noticed that this is “tough love week.” You are abusing yourself. I totally want to send you all the love in the world – if you were involved with an abusive man, and now he’s become caring…what’s happening is you’re taking over the part of you that wants to punish yourself (this is a trauma reaction from long, long ago) – and since he’s not hitting you on the head, YOU’RE hitting yourself in the head! Everything you’re doing now is messing you up more….please, please sit down and imagine what your life would be like without all this drama and humiliation and cheating and lying and confusion. If you can – get my Toxic Men program..it will help you put yourself back together and get your power back. Good luck, and please get all the help you can here…Love, Rori

  59.  #59Tina on November 3, 2009 at 11:24 am

    My self esteem has been so low, lower than I care to admit, I dont feel embarrassed to say that now. I feel more embarressed about when I remind myself later that jeese Tina, you were going to go there with him , then I start feeling like ooh thank you lord and Rori’s tools. Was I feeling so low that, I would do that with him to stop my feelings? for cover, to stop this feeling dead in its tracks?. that feels embarrassing to me. I just feel like right out crap if I do have random sex, rather than embarressment. I do feel shy and modest about sex, I would never have thought so but yeah I do. Lonely , sad , sex is not a good combination for me , thats for sure. I feel embarressed now, ok so lonely sad embarressing sex? oh god ok stop stop stop.

  60.  #60Tina on November 3, 2009 at 11:36 am

    Imagine what my life could be like…

  61.  #61Rori Raye on November 3, 2009 at 11:39 am

    Tina, love your comment. First – driving a man’s truck when he asks you to is straight out of the movies (reminds me a bit of Twilight’s heroine) and is totally okay in context if he’s basically doing the job of a masculine energy man. And here’s the fun part: How we label a man by what he EATS and DRINKS!!!! The only way to tell if a man can match you and make a good partner is if YOU can surrender to your feminine energy in his presence…and if he handles that in a way that makes you feel good. Basically, that’s it! A masculine energy man supports your feminine energy, and your feminine energy supports his masculine energy. That’s how it works…Love, Rori

  62.  #62Rori Raye on November 3, 2009 at 11:45 am

    Shannon – Jumping off of this….Love, Rori

  63.  #63Rori Raye on November 3, 2009 at 11:46 am

    Mary Ann – brilliant question and topic, and I’m going to jump off of it into a full post…Love, Rori

  64.  #64Tina on November 3, 2009 at 11:48 am

    Wowsers! No one has to abuse me , Hey I’m doing quite a job of it myself. OMG! what a revelation, We/I no longer have to have outside help, we/I do it myself. Crazy B we need to “talk”. You and me “girlfriend’ got to straighten out some stuff here.

  65.  #65Simply Shannon on November 3, 2009 at 11:57 am

    Tina: Thank you for responding! I feel curious and want to know more about situations that are not about sex. Just the plain ol’ dating situation. Say for example I’m with a man and I’m having fun but I just don’t get that spark. I’m trying very hard not to be judgemental on my first date but sometimes, I’m just not feeling it. My rotation is full enough that I’m not going on multiple dates with guys that I don’t have at least some phyiscal chemistry with. Maybe I’m limiting myself but the reality is I have a full calendar already. With some men, I’m just not attracted to them physically or as we talk our views don’t match up. What do I say then? I need examples please. I’m still not skilled at this feeling messages things. I feel very limited in my feelings range.

    And is this Tina: Crazy Bitch/Patience Tina? I feel confused. I know some of the posts are you but I can’t tell if they all are. I feel bad that I can’t tell but want to make sure I’m addressing you correctly!

  66.  #66Liz on November 3, 2009 at 12:17 pm

    Shannon, I’ve used something to this effect twice when been out with guys I’ve enjoyed meeting and going out with but don’t feel it romantically for:

    “‘I’ve enjoyed meeting and getting to know you but I feel bad because I’m not feeling the romantic inclination that I wish I was…..”

    The response back both times were surprising pleasant – both said thanks for being honest/upfront…don’t worry, you can’t force chemistry…I enjoyed meeting you too, good luck in your search.”

    Hope this is helpful. I feel curious about some other feeling messages that others may have used that felt good giving and got back good replies….

  67.  #67Tina on November 3, 2009 at 12:18 pm

    Simply Shannon, lol I need a code word? ok this one is not for the light hearted , ” I feel awkward” “I feel bored” For me just the fact that I am feeling and recognizing the feeling almost instantously picks my energy back up. This one man in particular not driving date, but oh you broke up with me two years ago and we never even met, not even held my hand, is going to be challenging. Challenging to my feelings messages for sure, he frightens me a little, not in a dangerous way, just in my feelings messages. I will just feel to move away, use all my feelings messages that I can muster, he did get angry in an email about me choosing to become bubble boys “girlfriend” rather than him, he spelled out all the reasons why he made a better partner, He has money, doesnt have to “work” lots of land , whatever, if you needed a vehicle , ill get you one but no you are choosing this guy for what? he has nothing? nothing nothing. on and on he went . He may do something really cheap like not pay for my coffee lol. It’s ok I come prepared! lol

  68.  #68Tina on November 3, 2009 at 12:21 pm

    Simply Shannon, they fall to the way side, it’s true. Stick with your feeling messages as best you can. I ask myself how do I feel right in his presence, I reach down to my vagjayjay and get that feeling up and out , I feel it. All in front of him, no matter what, its great fun! even the scary ones.

  69.  #69alias girl on November 3, 2009 at 12:31 pm

    xoxo 🙂 i love you all.

    i love rori’s comment about we can tell a masculine man by how we Feel when in his presence. does he bring out our feminine. the more i learn, the simpler it all is. which i love. i love simplicity.

    thank you for my joyful, prosperous day full of love, laughter, companionship, magic, surprise and perfect opportunities!

  70.  #70tinque on November 3, 2009 at 12:42 pm

    “if YOU can surrender to your feminine energy in his presence…and if he handles that in a way that makes you feel good…hat’s it! A masculine energy man supports your feminine energy, and your feminine energy supports his masculine energy.”

    Love, love, love this and SO true…

  71.  #71Tina on November 3, 2009 at 12:43 pm

    I feel like a ROCKSTAR!

    Simply Shannon, I have moments of clarity! pre Goddess was like crazy hell for me, I felt lost, I feel good you are here along with everyone else. Baby steps!

    Rori, Your awesome, I don’t know what I would have done if I didnt find this life changing site!

  72.  #72Paula on November 3, 2009 at 1:47 pm

    Tinque – I like Thich Naht Hanhs ‘Creating True Peace’. There are great guided meditations in it, including one that you can do when in the grip of a strong emotion. I’m addicted to that one and I do it even when I’m just feeling a little upset.

    I like Modern Siren a lot so far. Will I remember to do the tools?? I hope so. i feel excited.

    Hmm, these online guys who send me a one line email like ‘Hello Pretty’ or ‘where did you travel to?’ or ’email me on xxx and add me to your messenger’. I don’t know how to respond to them.

    I have a job interview on Thursday – in French (not my mother tongue). I feel nervous.

  73.  #73tinque on November 3, 2009 at 1:56 pm

    Bonne chance Paula…Respire toutoune.

  74.  #74gina on November 3, 2009 at 5:41 pm

    i’m feeling bad about the legend of god looking at what I’ve done with my beauty and talents and goodness. I feel guilty about the self sabotaging that i’ve done. I feel inspired to do better. I feel hopeful that when i’m judged, maybe improvement will be taken into consideration? I feel silly like this is make believe, but then I know that in some dimension, this judgment does take place – precisely because it is taking place in my head, and thoughts are real. Part of me feels compelled to refocus on a happier thought. although, I know that thought was lurking in my subconscious, and if i do take measures to address the concern, now that I’ve brought it to the light of day, then perhaps some healing can take place. Even though, in some ways, i have self sabotaged my beauty and my talents and goodness, I love and accept my self completely.

  75.  #75nikita on November 3, 2009 at 6:09 pm


    I love and accept you completely as well 🙂

  76.  #76Simply Shannon on November 3, 2009 at 7:11 pm

    Gina: I love and accept you completely as well. (((HUGS)))

  77.  #77Simply Shannon on November 3, 2009 at 7:21 pm

    I just had a fun, quick coffee date with a cute guy. I didn’t feel super pretty or anything. I had gone shopping and was running around when he called to ask me to have a coffee before I headed home. He texted me afterwards and said “thanks for meeting me and p.s. you’re gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous.” We’re going to lunch on Thursday. 🙂

    I truly feel amazed by these men I’m meeting and how they respond to me. And I don’t feel like any of them is the last man on the earth. So refreshing and so much easier than the serial dating I used to do!

    I feel relaxed, and my pumpkin spice latte has me feeling all warm and cozy! YUMMY! Sweet dreams Sirens! Shannon

  78.  #78Ann on November 3, 2009 at 9:18 pm

    I really liked what Rori said to Alias Girl and Tina:

    Rori Raye says:

    Alias Girl – the simple question “How are you?” is a magnificent request for you to open up to

    him. You say “I feel ……(hot, sticky, nervous, irritated, angry, overwhelmed, tired, excited by

    work, thrilled by the warm weather, afraid of the holidays…..) – what you can say here is as

    infinite as your feelings. What’s happening to you is you’re instantly judging the person

    asking…when all you need to do is take it as an invitation. So what if it’s uncreative? Perhaps

    he’ll turn out to be a man who’d like to hear how you feel about life…without judgment. Love,


    Rori Raye says:

    Tina, love your comment. First – driving a man’s truck when he asks you to is straight out of the

    movies (reminds me a bit of Twilight’s heroine) and is totally okay in context if he’s basically

    doing the job of a masculine energy man. And here’s the fun part: How we label a man by what he

    EATS and DRINKS!!!! The only way to tell if a man can match you and make a good partner is if YOU

    can surrender to your feminine energy in his presence…and if he handles that in a way that makes

    you feel good. Basically, that’s it! A masculine energy man supports your feminine energy, and

    your feminine energy supports his masculine energy. That’s how it works…Love, Rori

  79.  #79Heather on November 3, 2009 at 9:42 pm

    Renee, I feel SO much rage for how this man has treated you. I also get why and how you put up with his behavior towards you. When you were in such a vulnerable place (and I assume not wanting to put up a fight for affection when you’re focusing on improving your daughter’s health and your own), and this guy comes around saying you’re a great “traveling companion” “friend”. How arrogant it sounds to me; and that he told you the “truth” about being with one other woman seriously and at least 1 or 2 others…. I just want to SCREAM!!!!! (for you).

    And if you have experienced an abusive relationship in the past … this guy’s behavior probably feels decent to you. He gets to say he’s “not leading you on” since he’s telling you the “truth” about other women… AHHHGGGGHHH!!! And this cycle can seem SO Endless!

  80.  #80Heather on November 3, 2009 at 9:49 pm

    More… and the way Rori and other siren goddesses on this blog put it. It just sounds SO SIMPLE! When you take the fantasy and imaginary-ness out of it, face it head on and see it (and accept it) for what it is … you get Freedom. And rage, and hopefully a push to get out there circular dating…

  81.  #81Bethany on November 3, 2009 at 10:15 pm

    I want to believe that there are other guys out there who are BETTER for me than Christopher. I feel scared that this word “better” that everyone talks about means that there is some kind of tradeoff: that sure, they will be “better” for me and treat me well and adore me, but this guy from college who is in love with me fits THAT bill and he is NOT what I want. There is a disconnect in my brain. I feel so scared that the men available to me will not be as attractive as Chris, as funny, as smart, as talented, as sexy, as handsome, as spirited, as intelligent. I want to believe that I CAN have a guy who is ALL of these things but doesn’t make me CRAZY and I can STILL FEEL EXCITED about him. I fear being bored. I feel panic to get to Minneapolis NOW and start dating NOW, lots of other guys, because NO ONE ON MATCH.COM is EMAILING ME! WHAT THE FUCK??!??!! I feel sooooooo frustrated. I feel like punching something. I feel like throwing and smashing things. This is not fucking working for me. I want to see the attractive men and they are not there. What is fucking wrong with me that I can’t see them???? I feel like wailing and screaming. I want to believe I want to believe I want to believe I want to believe I want to believe I want to believe. Dear Universe, I want to put in an order for tons of sexy men who I like MORE than I like Chris. I want them to appear promptly. I want them to come to me. I want them now. I am doing my best to not feel impatient and panicked. But I feel angry. I feel so fucking angry. I feel angry at this town. I feel angry at myself. I want to just surrender to this and let it be. I asked you for a good day today, Universe, and I thank you for giving that to me. But you forgot to throw a good nighttime in there for me. Or I forgot to ask for it. I feel low low low. I love my angry feelings. I feel despairing. I love my despairing feelings. I feel scared that he is losing interest in me. I feel scared about what that means for my plan. I feel panicked and I bet me feeling panicked about filling in silences on the phone is making him back away even more. I feel like CALLING him and GOING AFTER HIM and trying to FIX THINGS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I won’t. I won’t won’t won’t call. It will make me feel worse and more panicky that I can’t fix things. I love my panic. I’m adorable. Look at how distressed I am over two bad phone calls. I love myself for caring so much. I love my fear and my depression and my anger. I love my horrible, very bad, no good feelings. I love my panic I love my panic.

    I am not all together. My apartment is a wreck because I never seem quite done with my “renovations” and cleaning the clutter out. I am not all together because my refrigerator door swings open by itself sometimes an all my food spoils and I feel too tired to buy anything new so I just order pizza. I am kind of a wreck because I feel bad about not being able to write down my day in feeling messages I can deliver on the phone in an easy manner. I am not all together because I really don’t feel engaged at my job. I am not all together because I don’t always trust the universe is working in my favor. I want to…but I don’t always. I am not all together because I don’t have the time to get done all the things I want to get done during the day. I am not all together because I’m really bad at job searching. I am not all together because I really want to make friends here but i don’t know how. I feel lonely. I feel like I’ve squandered my time because I’m too shy to do anything. I feel really sad about that. I feel like an outcast. I feel like I don’t deserve friends. I feel like no one likes me.

    I just feel very, very, very lonely.

    This guy from Match just called me. It was a fun conversation. I felt way less tense than I did talking to Christopher, where I just feel heavy and weird and petrified of making a mistake. He lives in Nebrask, so there’s no chance of anything “happening,” but it was good phone practice. Is this a good omen, universe? Please?

  82.  #82Bethany on November 3, 2009 at 10:33 pm

    Roris says this in her yummy pie email:

    “Even if you eliminate the married ones, the
    gay ones, the one’s who’re unavailable for any
    number of emotional or geographic reasons, or
    undesirable for any number of emotional or
    practical reasons, you still end up with a
    zillion available men.”

    Okay, but are these zillion men men I would WANT? I feel super tired but this is a big fear of mine bubbling up. What if this “great” guy showed up and wanted me but I didn’t want him? I don’t know why but this is a big big fear that I would feel repulsed by the guy who really wanted me because I look at the ones who seem to really want me and they are the undesirable guys. Ugh. What if he were to show up and I didn’t want anything from him? That would feel super weird and bizarre. I feel like there is some cord or lever broken in my brain because I do not see the logic here…are we SUPPOSED to eventually like the puppy dog guys?

  83.  #83gina on November 3, 2009 at 10:57 pm

    I’m feeling sad about the world. even on a BEAUTIFUL day, when I walk around seeing people happily living – out to eat, enjoying a meal, i think oh the poor cow and pig and chicken and fish that went into that moment!! And i suppose it’s okay that the animals died for our nourishment/pleasure, but I feel inspired to make the recognition and appreciation of the sacrifice into a larger part of my consciousness and behavior. I’ve been thinking that tribal cultures that made sacrifices to the gods had it more “right” than we do (even though the imagery freaks me out) – they found a way to embrace completely the terrible stuff that humans do to live. In contemporary American society, I feel like I can sorta kinda live in denial of the ugly truths, but the constant reminders of the dark side of Man haunts me. This man in this story is a reminder. Like Rori said – he is a “BAD” man. I feel scared of seductive BAD men. It’s like there’s a spectrum of bad, and he’s pretty bad, but not as bad as it gets. yikes.

  84.  #84gina on November 3, 2009 at 10:59 pm

    oh, and Nikita and Shannon, thanks for the Love, ladies. That felt so good to read 🙂 xoxo

  85.  #85Daria on November 3, 2009 at 11:01 pm

    Gina –

    when I eat I remember what it was that i’m eating as a plant or animal and kind of thank it or just imagine it and it feels like im honoring it that way.

    Ie i imagine the corn growing, the tomatoe, the chicken, etc

  86.  #86Daria on November 3, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    It also gives me a way to feel what would go good together and to feel how well i will digest that combination of food – when i imagine it it makes it feel more real and my stomach gets a feeling of what it will be like to eat it and make it part of me

  87.  #87Daria on November 3, 2009 at 11:04 pm

    I really like doing this for the poor non-organic processed “junk” food because it feels so good to honor the beings and stuff that went in there and maybe it didn’t get as much love or appreciation and it gets called “junk” so I want to honor it for the best thing and good thing that it represents… so even if its not perfect there is the perfectness of its spirt and what it IS

    it feels good and comforting

  88.  #88Kaitlyn on November 3, 2009 at 11:17 pm

    Sounds good, but you’re not honoring yourself by eating processed junk made in a factory.

  89.  #89gina on November 3, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    Bethany, I can really relate the fear of having to settle for one of those men who adores me, but for whom I feel very little respect or attraction. Right now I believe that this doesn’t have to be the case, cause I’m attracted to Johnny, and lately he’s coming through. But I know that if he doesn’t come through, that he will become one of those men that I want, who don’t work, and I’ll be right back to worrying about whether I have to settle. But Rori’s whole thing is about feeling good. Receiving a man who FEELS good. And a man who feels good doesn’t sound like settling. Tolerating a man who doesn’t feel good (worrying, wondering, stressing, grieving, crying, obsessing, hurting, maddening) – that sounds like settling. And ending up with one of the guys who likes me, but I feel zero attraction to, isn’t an option, cause I’d rather go to sleep alone. But I’m discovering that dating all kinds of men is a good thing. I feel how godessy I am. And I thought I already knew it, cause men on the street sing my praises – but the truth is, that I needed to go on dates and actually talk to and relate to men in order to really KNOW my goddessyness, because I never completely believed the men on the street – I didn’t believe it was ME that they were responding to. Plus I felt violated and weird sometimes. Going on a DATE, and interacting with men, and connecting with men has elevated my self esteem in a way I didn’t expect. I feel more sure of myself. More aware that I AM a woman – I feel that I’ve grown into my WOMANNESS: the part of me that is bigger than my Ginaness – more holy. I didn’t understand how the quality of men could possibly improve, but that definitely is the case. Lately, I haven’t been wanting to punch these men in the face. I thought that maybe the actual number of good men in the world who think like me had increased, but then I remembered what Rori said about the quality of men improving. But, regardless of the men, there’s something in me that seems to be changing. Like the other night, I was at a meeting for work, and I looked around at all the men in the room, and I found them adorable – I let them take care of me at work, and the result is that I feel affection for them. I KNOW that it would also be possible for me to feel disdain for them. Anger. If i had been in shut down mode, there is no way that these men would have stepped up in the small ways that they have, and there is NO way that I would feel affection for them AT ALL. It feels good to be experiencing new possibilities.

  90.  #90gina on November 3, 2009 at 11:51 pm

    Daria, i appreciate reading about the way you look at food called junk – you’re right: those poor little creatures who lived sad lives to wind up as “junk food.” yeah, see, this is more about our culture that depresses me. I feel longing for a better way to live. I know that I can take personal responsibility, but there’s still the teenage girl in me who’s appalled at how horrible “adults” can be, and I still feel like I don’t want to participate in society. I feel immature saying these things. For the most part, I did process this stuff as a teenager, but it was traumatic – I withdrew completely cause I felt overwhelmed by all that seems so wrong with the world. And I think that was significant, cause adolescence is a time when people experiment with relationships – I literally spent one year of high school completely on my own. I was vegan and I made a lot of other choices to do what I thought was “right,” but the trade off was that I was “weird.” It felt awful. Something that I have noticed that interferes with all my relationships is that a part of me still thinks “I’m weird.” I can see major healing that has happened as a result of opening up in general. But somehow that “weird” label still feels debilitating – I feel ready to let that go and love the part of me that was strong enough to stand alone. The “weirdness” happened cause I didn’t love and accept myself. I WAS right to respect life and beauty wherever I saw it, and if I had fully accepted and loved myself, I could have shared my point of view, and I probably would have discovered that others felt the same way. But because i didn’t accept myself, I didn’t share, and I was alone, and I missed out on the opportunity to connect with other people who were dealing with their own challenges of adolescence.

  91.  #91Daria on November 4, 2009 at 12:46 am

    Kaitlyn –

    I feel bugged reading that. I appreciate that I feel cared for as in concern for my health and i feel criticized and misunderstood.

    I believe junk is what I belive it to be. The food that is made into junk is Real food regardless of the processing in the factory. Personally I believe that by honoring that it becomes healthy for my body.

    Most of the time I do like to eat organic food.

    When I decide to eat food called “junk” however, I honor it and myself by still honoring its spirit. I belive this helps make it healthy for Me, personally.

  92.  #92Daria on November 4, 2009 at 12:51 am

    Gina I can relate to what you said about highschool and i feel drawn in and comforted.

    I feel the same way about things now, and I can start feeling outraged and overwhelmed by my rage.

    I had the “weird” label in middle school though it wasn’t because of things like that but simply because i didn’t fit in at the time and I still feel uncomfortable sometimes with the word “weird,” although I feel a lot better about it right now

  93.  #93alias girl on November 4, 2009 at 1:59 am

    bethany for me as i become more and more open, my options are opening up as well. i am finally at the point of TRULY circular dating. well, almost. but i am getting there. and i am willing to date men that i do not imagine “ending up” with, men i feel are totally probably “not” my guy.

    and the more i do this, don’t ask me how this works, the more yummy men that show up. i am even attracting the enthnicity i like. hee hee. i love it.

    rori’s tools are teaching me to stay in my happy ever after.

    i rarely eat doritos. very rarely. but when i do i enjoy them and love them and feel happy eating them.

  94.  #94Katie on November 4, 2009 at 4:48 am

    Well, it’s a sunny mid-morning in this part of the world.
    I have signed up with an online dating site – eeeks! I have not done this before and it feels scary and challenging. I am feeling like it is helping me to cut the past loose. I feel that being available for contact with other guys will help me to see past my tunnel vision onto one guy (my ex). I don’t know how to filter out the guys that I would not like to be with at all.

    Do you ladies have any ideas on what to put into a profile to help with this. I mean I want to be selective and I have tried to be authentic with what I have said. Mmmm still needs a bit more rewriting I think.

    Also profile photo – I could get a really good photo which makes me look younger and prettier etc which may get more interest but I’d rather just look as I usually look.

    I am taking your advice Bethany – and NOT contacting HIM. It’s tough because it was me that caused some damage 3 months ago. So I have wanted to make him realise that I still feel hopeful about ‘us’ and ultimately would like to get back together. I want to show up in his life a little – just to be present. Or would it be best just to let him come back to me IF he wants. He did send a text 2 weeks ago to ask me to meet for a coffee, but I really was too busy. No invites since then.

  95.  #95Katie on November 4, 2009 at 4:56 am

    Also I am on ‘twitter’ – he is too. So he gets to see a bit of what I am doing/thinking. I like the way it is easy to connect up with people. But with twitter and facebook does that give him too much of a window into my life without having to get curious or miss me enough to contact – I don’t know – anyone else with a clear view about this?

  96.  #96Katie on November 4, 2009 at 5:00 am

    Also – I am waiting for ‘modern siren’ to arrive – and I really want to get started with it – can’t wait! – really excited about it.

  97.  #97Bethany on November 4, 2009 at 6:54 am

    Katie, I did my profile with “I feel” statements. You could get your picture taken or just use one that looks good that you already have. But really use a good picture and not one that’s just “so-so.”

    Okay, fine, Universe. I’m going to “show interest” in all these guys on Chemistry who are looking for a “speical” lady. Are you serious? Proofread your effing profile!!! Grrr I feel annoyed. I am going to go out to the bars after work and sit my ass down and be fucking present and open and probably not happy about it. Sites have guys with massive potbellies and two to two and a half chins who live on farms in Nebraska and North Dakota–not even frogs in my own effing state–but I’m going to “show interest” anyway! What the hell, why not!!!! It’s hunting season in Central South Dakota. There are plenty of guys in camo and traffic cone-orange vests traipsing around. And I’m pretty much a vegetarian!! Super!

    Okay I realized I’m being a huge bitch about this. I am worrying way too much about there being no guys at all. And I’m shy and this is pretty much

  98.  #98Bethany on November 4, 2009 at 6:57 am

    the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do. Don’t want to. What if my “boy energy” is kind of a pansy anyway?

    Gina and alias girl, thanks for your thoughts about circular dating and being open (although I realize my attitude is not open right now).

  99.  #99Flipper on November 4, 2009 at 7:53 am

    If I am not eventually attracted to him, he can’t possibly fit into the “Great For Me” category. Pretty damned good messengers, yes, but their greatness lies with some Other Goddess, not me. Mine is(are) absolutely Great For ME in every way I need that to be.

  100.  #100nikita on November 4, 2009 at 8:30 am

    Can I feel a “wall”?

    Can I feel a “guard” or a “moat”?

    I feel something…..buisnessy about this guy.I expressed that but ….I feel a block to intimacy or something…..who’s wall is it????

    I feel like tearing it down…….if you are going to call me why would you put plexiglass up? Is that your wall or did one of my NV’s put it up when I turned my back?

    I don’t get many nasty voices…..who the hell put up that wall????? I can’t see it…..but I feel it!

  101.  #101Uschi on November 4, 2009 at 11:16 am


    to your post I say:
    “In my PJ’s now but just had a thought WHY can I accept only crumbs? If I received a full cake (attention, respect, love) from a man, It might be too rich for me. I couldn’t digest it. So how to get used to receiving or feeling deserving of cake? Baby steps maybe”
    and ask:
    I had the whole cake, yet I believe now that I felt unworthy of it and unconsciously just nibbled at the cake and took crumbs and never accepted the whole thing even though it was offered and there for the taking. The question now – can the cake be re-baked with the same man who offered it? Does it need to be from scratch – and if so how to start. Are the tools all we have or is there more out there somewhere or is it all within us and comes from us?

  102.  #102Uschi on November 4, 2009 at 11:29 am

    P.S – further thoughts
    it seems that without knowing the tools we smash the cake, we smash us by not taking care of us, by not loving ourselves, by not getting into our feelings, by not being, by not expressing. It seems that by learning the tools we make a new cake even if it is with the same man (if he is worth it)

  103.  #103nikita on November 4, 2009 at 11:31 am

    Gutten tag !

  104.  #104Katie on November 4, 2009 at 11:39 am


    Good points – I am wondering about this kind of thing too. If I don’t feel safe with myself, moods, emotions, fears etc then a man won’t either. So little crumbs are all that either of us can handle (him and me).

  105.  #105Uschi on November 4, 2009 at 11:41 am

    I have a question for you and if it is to personal please let me know.
    You mentioned that you had trouble in your marriage, he turned cold, withdrew, was emotionally withdrawn etc. How did that manifest – did he complain that there were things you did or didn’t do, have fights or problems of one kind or another. Did he want you to be or act in certain ways, do things for him -using those complaints maybe as a cover for what he was really asking for?
    It seems to me that when you say that men have a hard time getting in touch with their feelings, yet are able to HEAR our feeling messages and consequently then are able to step up to the plate, that when they complain about rather unimportant stuff they are actually asking to be asked to step up to the plate so they can be what you want them to be and just don’t know what they are really asking for. By using the complaints or fighting about whatever it is a cover for what they really want or need from us.
    I am not sure if I am making any sense with this, however, Rori you are so much smarter with this than I am, that I hope you are able to answer this question.


  106.  #106Katie on November 4, 2009 at 11:45 am

    I always thought that if a relationship is meant to be then somehow it’ll work out. Now I realise that i am much more influential than I ever was able to realise before. Everything I do, feel, whatever my own vibe is, really is totally causative in relationship, not just with a man but with everyone. It is scary but also it feels empowering to realise this.

  107.  #107Rori Raye on November 4, 2009 at 11:49 am

    Katie, I love this comment, and it’s so true. Just make sure you don’t get into blaming yourself or beating yourself up as though you are the “cause” of your situation. Where you are now is where everything you know has led you. You are undertaking here to completely change the train track you are on – and that is huge work, totally brave, and quite amazing. Take responsibility for your life by owning your feelings and your actions, and seeing EVERYTHING as a message and a lesson. Keep your Happy Ever After ALWAYS in your mind, and you’ll get there. Love, Rori

  108.  #108Katie on November 4, 2009 at 11:51 am

    I have been so good at stuffing down my feelings and thinking that I am doing ok emotionally. Then when it isn’t plain sailing anymore with a guy all those feelings just wooosh out of me, like a flame thrower – jeez!

  109.  #109Katie on November 4, 2009 at 11:54 am

    Wow Rori thanks, that is so encouraging, there is so much warmth and clarity in your words.

  110.  #110Rori Raye on November 4, 2009 at 11:55 am

    Uschi – this is not a simple answer, and the analysis of it would hurt what we’re doing here, anyway. Almost all of us are stuck in DEFENSIVE STANCES (I talk about this with Strong Surrender in commitment Blueprint and Modern Siren). We respond with anger and coldness when we’re afraid. When we’re triggered. If a man is complaining, doing bad, hurtful behavior…he’s feeling unsafe, unloved, unthrilled, unattracted, angry…all kinds of things. And depending on what HE was taught in HIS family and surroundings, he’ll respond to every trigger exactly the same way. Which might be different than another man’s response. If you can look at every uncomfrotable moment – when his or your defenses are behaving instead of your hearts speaking the truth…that’s the message. That’s when you go deeper, use the Tools and open up the air and the space between you. You don’t need to understand his process to create safety and thrills – you get to do that on YOUR side of the equation. My husband responded to my overfunctioning (which was my defensive, masculine posture, my stifling of my feelings and needs) with HIS “stuff.” Coldness, withdrawing, harping, complaining, demanding, no sex, no affection, pulling away….all of it. Once I stopped doing MY old stuff – he stopped doing his…and we were able to CONNECT. Love, Rori

  111.  #111Katie on November 4, 2009 at 11:57 am

    I am just about to go out to an evening talk it is called ‘Writing from the Heart’ if I come back with any gems I will post them here.

  112.  #112Uschi on November 4, 2009 at 12:06 pm


    it feels good to me that you wrote this and really put into words how empowering Rori’s tools can really be if used. It just takes time to get comfortable with them and wrap your mind around it. When you are 55 years old and have done, thought, acted and reacted in a certain way and have held on to the wrong believes given to you for a long time it is difficult to switch from one day to the next. I find myself at times scared of the outcome when I change something around and it is the same for the tools I am learning from Rori. Scared of the power and still afraid of fully using it. Yet the surprises Rori speaks of can be so wonderful and can make you feel so wonderful and then you have to learn to relax into them without giving into the feeling that you have to reciprocate. I have had two very nice surprises since using Rori’s tools and it took all my willpower to just experience it and accept it and just being – being a woman.

  113.  #113gina on November 4, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    uh oh. I was a major bitch to my roommate today. major. mondo. UURRRRGH! I recognize this Bitch – it looks like my mom when she’s bitchy – can I really reverse this pattern? I feel a little scared and hopeless.
    The bitchiness came from convolutedness. We can’t park our cars on the streets for free during the week. Sunday night I said “oh! I gotta move my car!!” She said “you know, I park on the street in the loading zone all the time and i never get a ticket.” And I was thinking that I would go ahead and move it to the parking garage to be safe, but then I didn’t think about it again till 4 am and I didn’t feel at all like going all the way to the parking garage, so I took her suggestion and parked in the loading zone. Didn’t think about it again till Tuesday morning she called me at work to say that she saw my car with a ticket and a sticker that said it’d be towed if i didn’t move it within 8 days. I was surprised, so I said “what? where is is it?” She said “that’s what I figured – you have no idea where it is…” And that pissed me off. cause I DO know where I parked my car, I just had to re-orient my brain. And I know that she probably felt a little bad when she saw my car in the loading zone, per her suggestion, with a big fat ticket on it. So for her to ignore that she made the suggestion, ignore that she feels bad, and say “that’s what I thought – you have no idea where it is.” makes me feel violent. urrrrgh! but I rationalized it in my brain – she doesn’t mean any harm at all. no biggie. no need to punch her in the face, sheesh, I can be so mean! But even though I tried to rationalize it, I felt angry. I didn’t even know I felt angry – i just started having all these thoughts about what a worthless friend she is, and how I’d like to replace her. especially with a man. but at the same time, I wanted to be “fine” and to go out and have fun (but I felt resentful that I would basically be using her as a warm body, not really enjoying a friendship). We talked about going out last night, and I know that I could’ve made it happen, but I didn’t, and I angrily blamed her. but she didn’t acknowledge my anger – she kept being sweet, saying i’m “cute.” Then last night, I had a dream in which I told her that I don’t like her! I told her that I wish we had more honesty and respect between us (in my dream). Then this morning, I wanted to be able to go out and enjoy this beautiful day by going to lunch. I invited her, and my anger totally trumped my desire to have a nice time (I was going to handle the parking ticket while I was out, so the parking issue was looming large in the air, even though I wasn’t completely aware of it. I just felt myself hating her). I was super mean. I told her multiple times that I would rather go alone next time. And before we even got to the restaurant, she said that she didn’t want to go to lunch with me. She said that I was bitchy and she didn’t know why, I was walking in the middle of the sidewalk, not even making room for her (I didn’t notice – was busy thinking about how she felt like dead weight and I’d rather be alone or with a man that is a real match instead of some chick that annoys me). She said that she didn’t know what was wrong with the energy, but she didn’t want to deal with it, and she figured that I didn’t either. I just remembered that in my dream, I kept telling her how “nice” she is. She really is! and now that she stood up for herself, I feel bad for being mean, and I feel more respect and and willingness to communicate. wow – I feel amazed at how very bitchy I got about a small thing. Lesson: communicate about negative feelings, so that I don’t transform into a raging bitch.

  114.  #114Simply Shannon on November 4, 2009 at 1:56 pm

    Gina: I feel intrigued by what happened between you and your roommate. I can clearly see how your roommate playing nice only served to piss you off more and not being able (for whatever reason) to express how you were feeling just kept them bottled up inside you until you were super angry. Can you see that? I’m finally seeing that the dynamic is always there even if it’s not between a man and a woman.

    I feel curious about your reasons for not speaking the truth to her. When she said “that’s what I thought – you have no idea where it is”, I might have said “Oh that didn’t feel good. I feel [insert feeling here]. Can you help me figure this out please?”

  115.  #115gina on November 4, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    i was at work when she called, so I felt like I had to keep under control – I felt a flash of anger when she said it and I said defensively that I do know where my car is. I needed to hurry up and get off the phone, so I didn’t address it in the moment. Then, before I saw her next, I rationalized all my feelings, and told myself that it was no big deal. When i saw her that night, I addressed my feelings in a passive aggressive way by saying “thank you for the parking tip” in a dead-pan sarcastic way. she said “Gosh!!” I said “guilty?” she said “no, you’re so mean!” and she giggled. I just thought mean thoughts without saying anything else.

    She just got home and I apologized. She accepted. we’re fine. we have this strange dynamic where I sometimes behave in ways that i know somebody else would find intolerable, but it doesn’t seem to stick with her. she just expressed that she felt proud of herself for leaving when i was bitchy. I learned about bitchiness, and, according to her, she learned about standing up for herself, and we move on. I’m grateful for that.

  116.  #116Uschi on November 4, 2009 at 2:30 pm


    that’s what a call friendship – you get over something like that – work it out and then go on from there without holding a grudge – and most importantly – you both learned something from it.

  117.  #117Linda on November 4, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    Wow, I had a lot to get caught up on here. My internet was down yesterday, very annoying. Everytime they say they are going to improve the service, it doesnt work then. hmmmm there is something wrong with that picture.

    I deactivated my profile on the dating website. You know for this season I am in right now it feels better to not have that going on in the back of my head. I am not wondering if a great email will be waiting and I am saved from half hearted ones too. I am happier without that intrution into my life right now.

    I read the comment from alias girl about being annoyed with all the “how are you” emails and “wow you are gorgeous” emails… and then Rori’s reply. I laughed so hard at the ” I feel like punching you in the face” comment. Ohhh have I felt like that!. I have also felt like.. hey are you blind? can you think with the right head? Oh… do I need to explain which one that is?… I guess my experience online dating has not been what I had hoped. I have been at it a year now. I think I have now officially become cynical and yes judgemental. I would read email after email and roll my eyes. Come ON!… is there anybody out there that is serious about finding a real relationship?… I have gotten to the place where I have no tolerance it.

    I have one man that I gave my personal email to before I hid my profile. I simply told him I was closing my account and if he wanted to stay in touch he could contact me there. To date he has written every day. He seems a thoughtful man. It has been a month since he first contacted me online and he had never asked to talk or meet. Just these, thinking about you, how are you, hows your day?…. I feel annoyed by his emails now….He does not feel real, I am triggered and yes judging him.

    When I read Rori’s comment… use his question as an invitation, I was taken by surprise. IT is brilliant! I dont know why I did not see it. So now instead of being closed and judgemental I am going to use this as a opporunity … I am going to answer his invitation and respond instead of what I was going to do.. shut down and off totally to him. I am going to experiement and see what happens. THANKS Rori


  118.  #118Vicki Kerns on November 4, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    Wow! Renee! Those were some eye-opening words from Rori. As I read through it, I teared up because aside from a few details, it sounds like she wrote it for me. He doesn’t want me and he can say whatever he wants, but he did lead me on. Saturday is one year since I first went out with him and he totally opened up his life to me. He romanced me, held my hand, held me in his arms, took me to his moms for Xmas Eve dinner. Now he can call that “just being friends” but I guess my version of friends is completely different. Friends are loving and friendly, yes, but they are not romantic, and he was! And he was OK until we had sex (after 2 months of going out), then he back-pedaled like a school boy and it was downhill after that.

    But where I felt the most foolish and embarrassed was that I believe him when he said that “I think we can have something really special down the road,” and “I can’t date right now because I’m trying to get my son on the right path.” (OK, the kid was 19 at the time. If he isn’t on the right path by that age, I’d say it’s pretty much a done deal.)

    So I did the friends with benefits, put away the things I really wanted with this man because I didn’t want to lose what little I had of him. And all the time, in the back of my mind, I’m thinking “he said we’d have something special down the road.”

    My real wake-up call was a couple of weeks ago when I read something he’d posted on Facebook, “I met someone this weekend. I really enjoyed the time I spent with her. God, it’s great to be single.” That was the final straw for me. Like a lightbulb that finally came on in my head. He’s never planning something special with me down the road. He just said it to let himself off the hook easily. And we had quit having sex at the end of May. Unfortunately, he never got around to telling me that we had, or why. And I asked him several times for a time to talk, but he never came forward (coward that he is).

    What really pierced my heart was him telling the Facebook world about “meeting the new person,” and I remember back to my birthday when he took me out to dinner, and he told ME that he had told his (skeezy) friend that he was taking me out because I had helped him with a lot of things. God forbid someone thing that we might have something going.

    I ended the “friendship” officially a couple of weeks ago in an e-mail that was mostly nice with feeling messages. However, I did say a couple of “pointed” things that had really been eating away at me, and I clarified that they were my bit of nasty. I wished him well, told him I hoped he found someone who would make him happy, and that the best thing for ME is to end the friendship.

    It hurts, yes. I’m finally coming to a place where I’m not beating myself up. I forgive myself daily and I pray for both myself and for him. He may never be able to dance, but I ask God to help him find his way.

    So Renee, hang in there girl. I understand how hard it is to put someone out of your life, your heart, your thoughts, and your dreams, but take each day as it comes and keep loving and doing things for yourself. I, too, am going through the Siren program. We can become the strong and confident women we were meant to be. I’ll keep you, and all my “sisters” here in my prayers.

  119.  #119Tracy on November 4, 2009 at 7:26 pm

    Vicki Herns,
    I feel glad that you are making it all better….hugs….
    It feels great to read other’s experiences….and yes i feel that all these experiences are teachers and messengers that bring us to becoming more confident and strong women we were meant to be…i feel glad that ii can celebrate this process and it feels great to see progress..yay

  120.  #120Linda on November 4, 2009 at 9:02 pm

    I failed… I dont have any energy to answer his inquiry. I guess I just feel that his asking is no different than passing someone in the hall at work and them asking “how are you”… you answer is the expected lie… “fine”. sigh

    I sat and thought about how I was, how I felt and all I could say was… it is a mixed bag. Overall, I am disconnected and waiting… your thoughtful to ask, thank you…. Maybe it is lame but it is true and how I feel. This man is not real to me. Just words that show up on email. I am uninspired disinterested.

    Oh well, maybe this funk will pass. Nite


  121.  #121Rori Raye on November 4, 2009 at 10:56 pm

    Good for you, Vicki. For some of us, it takes getting hit over the head. Next time, you’ll be faster, you won’t let it happen. Love, Rori

  122.  #122Rori Raye on November 4, 2009 at 10:58 pm

    Linda – try eharmony – just because I don’t think you have (correct me if I’m wrong) – but all the men there have to work hard to go through the paces they make you go through. Perhaps that’s important to you and will get you a better pool of men to practice on and with. Love, Rori

  123.  #123Linda on November 5, 2009 at 4:45 am

    I wish I could say that I had not tried that site but I did. It was actually the first one I signed up for. Absolutely no communication with anyone in 4 months!. What a total waste of money that was not to mention that it depressed me that no one was willing to even talk to me there.

    I also did match for 6 months, a bit of activity there but nothing happened there either. Most of the men on there are on POF litterally!… same pics etc.

    You know most of the men I have talked to or met have been on both those sites I mentioned and said that it was a joke… especially e-harmony.

    What is important to me is? …. quality, integrity and of course that he is attractive to me. I find all kinds of men attractive but find none so far that I can respect.

    Maybe we should start our own site… we could call it… “Goddesses” catch one of you can.

    Hugs… Linda

  124.  #124Flipper on November 5, 2009 at 4:47 am

    Linda, I hope you’re feeling better after a good sleep.

    I know just how you feel thinking ‘there aren’t quality men showing up so what’s the use’. I got told by an American pal last night that he understood why women here felt frustrated – according to his experience in this European country where we live (and he has a lot, despite still having lsome anguage limitations), there really Are a lot more available women than men here, and he loves that ratio – it’s even why he’s here!! Can’t tell you how much of a damper that put on my personal mantra ‘There ARE lotsa guys, There ARE lotsa guys….’.

    Whatever…. there are Some, so let’s not cut them out completely, however blech their initial style. But, all the more reason to practice NOT overfunctioning, and I still feel a bit of that even in your minimal response of “all I could say was… it is a mixed bag. Overall, I am disconnected and waiting… your thoughtful to ask, thank you….”

    I’m fine with the ‘Feeling a mixed bag, disconnected’ part, but the ‘your thoughtful to ask, thank you’ part is where I GO WRONG and I want to STOP. The Feelings part would be Me Giving Back – I am answering HIS question, generously (2 specific feelings for the price of one), and Vulnerably, as I’m willing to expose my negative side. THAT is ENOUGH. I feel it’s draining and all that horrid repulsion you’re feeling to continue with the rest: he is Not Asking for my evaluation (judgment) of him (thoughtful). As you remarked, ‘how are you’ ca

  125.  #125Flipper on November 5, 2009 at 4:58 am

    oops… As you remarked, ‘how are you’ can feel so meaningless, even more so in print with no twinkly eyes or stressed syllables to make it personal. So I’m feeling that even ‘thank you’ could be Too Much. Thanks for what?: sending me some standard bait that costs nothing, for being at least polite about it (not a direct sexual come-on) (i.e. for the moment only a crumb). Remember how Rori put it (she does NOT ADD ANYTHING after the feelings):

    “the simple question “How are you?” is a magnificent request for you to open up to him. You say

    “I feel ……(hot, sticky, nervous, irritated, angry, overwhelmed, tired, excited by work, thrilled by the warm weather, afraid of the holidays…..)

    – what you can say here is as infinite as your feelings. What’s happening to you is you’re instantly judging the person asking…when all you need to do is take it as an invitation”

    Period, fullstop. Then out into the Universe. Hugs.

  126.  #126Flipper on November 5, 2009 at 5:08 am

    My mantra revisited: ‘There ARE lotsa good guys, There ARE lotsa good guys… and MINE is among them’ (and even if there really are only Some good guys, MINE exists and He’ll make it to me somehow when I stop being so bloody NICE.
    I feel grateful, Thank you Universe.

  127.  #127Simply Shannon on November 5, 2009 at 6:42 am

    Linda: I’ve had those same feelings and at certain times I did back off. The thing I’m beginning to realize is that men give off the minimal amount in the beginning because so few women actually respond back. I’ve been making it a point to reply to most of the emails I receive. And even if I’m not expressing interest (long distance or too old/young or whatever) that men are genuinely surprised that I responded. Most reply something like “thank you so much for at least replying back!”. They are in the same boat as us, and I’m starting to really appreciate them taking a shot after so much rejection.

    I’m also interested in doing the circular dating thing out in the real world wherever I am. Just noticing men wherever I am and not just through online dating. It would feel great to have men approach men in real life first. Maybe you could do the same and back off the online dating until that part felt better to you. (((HUGS)))

  128.  #128Marie on November 5, 2009 at 7:26 am

    Hi Rorri,
    I’ so sorry this is so long, but there is no other way of explaining it.
    I met Micahel in June08, the chemistry between us was amazing right from the start. By July he was asking me to move in with him, by Sept I talked him into getting engaged( I didnt want to move in until I had serious commitment from him) by Nov he broke off the engagement…we never moved in together.He said I was too volatile and wanted to mother him,that I was not careful with money.Two weeks later he was calling me and saying how sorry he was. I was just grateful he was back. By January he was gone again, this time saying he has looked into his heart and there was no love for me!!! I got SO angry that I stopped all communications.I dated,but my hear was not really in it. In May 09 he sent me an email asking how I was and if we could talk sometimes,I replied that yes he could talk.We met and I kept the meeting half formal half casual.After that we phoned text or email every now and then,I flirted with him. In August he text me to tell me about his hospital result(I had asked him to)it was a bit scary, so I asked him to come for Reiki,he agreed.(he lives over 100miles away).Everytime after the Reiki we would have sex, it was not planned on my part,the sexual chemistry has always been great between us.
    He then emailed me,telling me that he has been seeing someone and that it is not working out. But he wanted a relationship where he can have his cake and eat it too!He wanted sex with me, because i’m very passionate and romantic whereas “she’s passionessless and does not show any emotions at all ,that there was no sex” but she has a steadfast and calm character! I agreed because I was desperate to keep him. Then 3 weeks later,I couldn’t take it anymore.I could not sleep, could not eat, all I could think of was come the weekend he will be spending it with her, they will be doing the things we use to do together and that was ripping me apart. He came to me for the Reiki and sex on the Thursday then went to her on the Friday! Again another massive blow up from me! I felt I needed to teach him a lesson and humiliate him.I needed to make him understand that you do not treat people like this. I sent a couple of emails to his work partners, a couple to his facebook. I was livid. All he said to me in reply was:”there was no need to do that, I thought we had an arangement”! that hurt me even more.So again I retracted,I felt bad for doing what I need,he is a great friend and has helped me out in many difficult situation and I still loved him. After I have calmed down i sent him an email saying how sorry i was for what i had done.He said apologies were not needed and can we please remain friends. We agreed to meet up( I needed to pick his brains for business plan) he was a bit reserved at first,but then we got on alright.Only business was discussed.(the discussion was about some some money I’ve inherited)
    When i got home,I felt confused,I love this man and wants him back, so i sent him a one line email to say thank you for his help, then went completely silent, over the next few hours he text and emailed but I kept my silence.Quite late into the night I got a very long email from him telling me,that as I was not replying he will take it that I do not want to talk to him and will leave me alone. I finally replied saying that by keeping that door open it was causing me too much stress and knowing he was with someone else was destroying me.Then I got a very surprised email saying that as usual i have misunderstood what he was saying…..and if we could please have a quiet life together! And that he will continue to say it until i finally understand. That completely threw me!
    BUT… it came with “we shall need to have talks and take it very slowly and see where we go” which is understandable… I then asked “what about your friend” and told him once more that i do not feel comfortable being in any relationship where there a re more than 2 .He said he has been having”structured talks” with her on the matter and that it will take a while as he doesn’t want to just dump her and ran like he did with me!
    We have been trying to have that talk for 3 weeks now, but something always crops up, he’s too busy, too tired,the distance is too long to do a round trip in the evening after a full days work.We have been texting, I’ve stopped emailing as I tend to say too much and we’ve met 3 times.Once he dropped everything to come because I was sick,then twice to help me move as I am closing my shop, and he has offered to store my things at his house.On 2 of those occasions he has taken me out for dinner. Everytime he has come I have tried bringing the subject up, but he says he needs a clear head for us to have that kind of talk. When he is with me we talk, cuddle, holds hands and feel comfortable with each other.Last time he came, I did some reiki on him and we ended up having sex…I do not regret it, but it takes me one step backwards in my negotiation,especially when I’ve said I don’t want to be in a sexual relationship where there are 3 of us.
    These last few days has been very stressful for both of us,as he is under pressure to finish reports for a presentation he is doing in San Francisco next Monday/Tuesday.(he has already taken 2 evenings out of that to come and see me and help me pack)He told me on Tuesday again that it is me he loves and wants to be with, but I have to give him time!
    I have made up my mind now, that I will leave everything as it is until he gets back and can give me a definite date to have that talk.
    I will only reply to text if one is sent and answer calls if he calls.
    Does this man really loves me and wants us to have a future or is he just stringing me along? Does he now wants me because he is thinking I’ve got money?(He has plenty of his own and truly doesn’t need my paltry inheritance)Is it because now that I’ve got some money to my name,he will not have to worry about supporting me if we do moved in together?
    What do I need to do to stop pushing him away and make things work.

  129.  #129Marie on November 5, 2009 at 11:05 am

    Hi everyone,
    Feeling less desperate now.
    I have just been chatting to my nine year old neice.She said something very interesting to me…….I love MYSELF, because there is only one me and the more I love myself the more happy I feel!……..sometimes lessons for me comes from the mouths of babies!!!!! God bless her.

  130.  #130Linda on November 5, 2009 at 11:38 am

    BIg Thanks to you ladies. Point well taken. Expressing my feelings is enough if I feel like doing it.

    I guess I thanked him becasue we have been emailing for about a month now. There have been other emails that had more substance to them. I do feel that his emails are minimal effort extented. I feel no need to work at making communication continue. My impression is that he is uninteresting, too reserved and un creative for me. I want a spicy guy that is a gentleman too. mmmmm

    Baby steps in using feeling messges for me. I would love to be approached in person. In fact I am expecting it. I have backed off the online thing till I feel better about it all. I am ok with hanging out with my dog and doin nothing. The dates have all been duddie and a waste of precious energy.

    You girls are so great. Thanks for your help.


  131.  #131Flipper on November 5, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    Thanks for your response and appreciation, Linda.

    I was gonna say ‘oh if this is someone you’ve already been exchanging with for a certain time, that’s different’. But, is it? Especially if this guy’s rowing has never gotten beyond paddling a finger with the current. In this case, maybe I’d allow myself to make one last experiment with a feeling- lousy message and nothing else, and just never respond again UNLESS I got something back that actually pleased me. But I would like to experiment with feeling-message ONLY answers with the next couple of messengers to see if there’s a difference.

    As for real-live encounters (with guys who are not necessarily out hustling, like in bars), have you checked out meetup.com (NOT a dating site)? I use it here to join in all kinds of interesting activities, and I know Daria has just discovered some cool things thru it in her neck of the woods. I’d love to hear from other Sirens if they’ve found any good opportunities for interaction with real people that way.

    Lucky you if you have a dog – I’ve heard that walking it is an almost surefire way to talk with strangers on almost every outing. (Not into animals at all myself, alas.)

  132.  #132Linda on November 5, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    Thanks Flipper, I guess my message to him yesterday was my version of feeling lousy. I am just too nice I think sometimes. I am learning and tweeking as I go. Your analogy of finger paddling with the current is so perfectly stated. That is exactly what it feels like he is doing. Getting someones attention is one thing… keeping it quite another.

    I will look up the meet up site. THanks for the info.

    Hugs… Linda

  133.  #133alias girl on November 5, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    flipper “paddling a finger with the current” haahaha

    linda i have emailed to men “I feel i am losing interest.” or “i feel bored” or “i feel unheard”

    i had this one conversation (a first conversation) with a man that went rather horribly at first. he kept saying these things that i felt horrible and triggered by. and i kept sharing my feelings (“I feel horrible”) and kudos to him that he even hung in there and later in the conversation we were talking and he was saying that he just wanted to make me happy.

    i was like REALLY? your intention in THIS conversation has been to make me HAPPY???????? because i felt like it was to determine whether or not i was good enough for him long term. i felt scrutinized.

    i believe he believed that he wanted to make me happy. and it wasn’t until after i shared that with him that i FELT like he was trying to make me happy.

    I told him i wanted to be cherished and i wanted someone who “got” me and i didn’t want to be judged.

    anyway that was a really amazing conversation because we managed to turn it around.

  134.  #134Rori Raye on November 6, 2009 at 12:44 am

    Marie, Welcome…and thank you for your story. I’m so sorry this is so painful and difficult for you, and if you want my answer and advice, I’ll give it – but you’re not going to like it. It’s actually so rough and brutal, I’m going to check with you personally by email before replying here. Love, Rori

  135.  #135Orna Walters on November 6, 2009 at 12:51 am

    Brava to YOU, Rori for having the courage to tell it like it is!

    For years my mantra has been “The men I love are loving me respectfully!” I had to learn to love respectfully first so that it could be mirrored back to me.

    I believe that in order to receive what we want, we have to truly VALUE ourselves at a much higher level (that way we do not settle for “crumbs” – as you say it, Rori).

    I’ve discovered that when I consistently treat myself as I’d like to be treated, I activate the powerful Law of Attraction. So if you wish to be treated like the most precious thing on the planet by the man you love, start with yourself and love yourself that way first.

  136.  #136Uschi on November 6, 2009 at 12:58 am


    I met my man on the internet and he too at first was a bit hesitant by sending me an email saying hi. However, he also added a bit about himself and then made a comment saying that his Armor was a bit old and dented but still usable and added he would make sure to polish it up should I except a date with him. This was in response to my profile on AOL looking for “MY KNIGHT IN SHINING ARMOR.”
    Our first date was not terrible exciting and I actually thought he was a bit stuffy and too conservative for me, our 2nd date he loosened up a bit and then there was nothing for like a year. Then I saw him on line and instant messaged him (which we did every now and then) and he invited me to come out yachting in the bay with him and a few fellow divers where he then was completely and totally relaxed and joking around even let me drive the boat. I was taking flying lessons at the time so he knew that I knew degrees on the compass etc and also GPS. I later on the way back fell asleep in one of the bunks cause I wasn’t used to being out in the air like that and on the water and when we got back to the marina he kissed me awake and then we went to dinner at the marina restaurant. It took off from there.
    I believe that the internet is a good way to start circular dating its just a bit different with first communication and always, always meet in a public place.

  137.  #137Tracy on November 6, 2009 at 2:26 am

    Hugs….been there…not a good place at all…..I resonate with all those feelings….this is a good place to start working on yourself and it gets better with baby steps…Hugs!

  138.  #138Cassandra on November 6, 2009 at 8:01 am

    Rori….this post felt absolutely fantastic! I felt so angry reading how Renee’ had been treated but so hopeful about the good things to come. I love what you said here……
    ‘If he WANTED you, he would have been with you LONG AGO. He is not. Therefore, he doesn’t want you. Not only is there NOTHING you can do strategically or in any other way to GET this man, there is no reason on this earth why you would WANT him. He lies, he cheats, he’s a player, he’s a total child and immediate gratification man, and he is clearly attracted to and hung up on a specific type of woman who is NOT you. There.”’

    I have been listening over and over and over to Toxic Men and on Tuesday I had to go back to Alexandria for a Dr’s visit and got to listen to Modern Siren asi was driving. ((For those of you that were there with me during the cancer issue last year….this was my ‘almost one year check-up’ and NO CANCER! YAY!!! I must say that I believe that that cancer was in a spiritual way very closely tied to Charles and my body was screaming at me to get the hell out of there and it manifested in the form of that cancer. I feel happy now that he is on the back of my horse and close to being dumped in the nearest river!)) Anyway….Toxic Men is helping me so so much adn Modern Siren has been wonderful. Because I was driving when I listened to it, I could not write things down that I needed to do regarding my own growth but that is on my agenda for this weekend.

    I do not ever want to be in a situation where I am denied love, affection, simple caring or even simple courtesy! Thank you so much Rori for this post! I feel inspired and stronger than I have in a very long time.

  139.  #139Mary Ann on November 6, 2009 at 8:14 am

    Cassandra that feels so wonderful to hear!!

  140.  #140Marie on November 6, 2009 at 8:49 am

    Thanks for all your support. I really need the help of you girls to try and get things into perspective and get a grip on my life.
    Tracy, how do I take baby steps? How do I stop galloping full speed ahead?
    I feel so vulnerable.I feel sad,I feel like I need a hug.
    I have been trying my hardest since reading Rori’s book to instil some of those practices into my conversations with him…..I feel …. but again I keep putting pressure when he says no.How do I stop a lifetime of doing things the way that I thought was right and learn baby steps…….HELP!!!!
    I kept my promise and did not text or email,but I was upset the night before when he said he would ring,then didn’t,so I sent a text saying I feel upset that you didn’t call as you said you would.What can we do about it not happening again.The reply I got yesterday was….I didn’t say I would call (yes,he did in his first text of the day) I went to Tai Chi, came home had a bath and went to bed as I said I would.I’m drowning in work and stress. Please let me survive that trip first.Chat after survival!!!! So,I sent him a copy of his text,and guess what…silence! I text him back saying I feel confident now that you genuinely forgot,you are very stressed.Love you and have a good day. Again no reply, but I’ve made my point,It would not have taken 2 seconds just to reply sorry,I honestly forgot…..and this is what really P******* me off, when they do not stop to take your feelings into consideration……Is that where I’m going wrong?
    Then I received a text last night ……Finally got through the day,hope you are well,going to bed in a minute with a sleeping pill.My reply to that was …I feel good,now you can relax.Sleep well. Today same kind of text…still at work sorting details,going home to pack soon and I hope to get some sleep tonight. My reply was …everything will be ok.You are an incredible person and I know you will give it your very very best.
    I know it is a big contract for him and I am 100% behind him,but it would be SO nice if apart from hope you are ok there was a little bit more.
    I’m hoping to use the time he is away to really work on myself….I’m not expecting miracles but baby steps would be great.

  141.  #141Cassandra on November 6, 2009 at 9:20 am

    Marie….your support feels wonderful…thank you. I feel so appreciative. 🙂 I felt sad reading your other post about your situation and your man not texting/ calling when he said he would. It felt awful to read and I was imagining how YOU must have felt. 🙁 I know one thing that I have REALLY REALLY had to focus on in using my own feelings messages is keeping it TOTALLY about ME and not the man I am talking to. For instance…let’s say he says he will call and doesn’t…..first of all I would not call or text him at all. At least I would try REALLY hard to NOT do that and if I get into that place where I feel that desperation I try to literally talk to myself. Why do I want to call him? Why do I want to talk to him when he is not calling me or doing what he said he would do? Do I want to be treated that way? – usually end up feeling angry and then it is easy to not call! LOL I am in that situation Right now….read my post on the one about mistakes! I am really trying to take those same baby steps. I am trying so hard to get my focus back onto ME and not the other person. Can you go do something that makes YOU feel good about YOU?

    Sending you that HUG!!

  142.  #142Rori Raye on November 6, 2009 at 10:16 am

    This is my reply to Marie…I sent her a personal email that was brutal:

    Marie, I started to reply to you on the blog, but thought it was too harsh to do publicly, so I’m emailing you privately. Please don’t read it if you don’t want to hear my brutal tough love…And please know I applaud you so much for reaching out here…and because I sense you’ve never heard what I’m about to say from anyone you respect, I wanted to let you know my take from your letter. You sound fabulous and powerful, and if you want to make the kind of changes I talk about here, I know you can do it…Love, Rori

    Marie, Welcome…and thank you for your story. I’m so sorry this is so painful and difficult for you, and if you want my answer and advice, I’ll give it – but you’re not going to like it. It seems like this is “tough love week” still – but all I can think is that if you’re feeling this way, and acting this way — no one has ever told you the truth before. First, in my take, he’s done absolutely nothing wrong. He’s with you or not with you, or with this other woman or not – and from your letter, it seems he’s always been truthful. I don’t hear him lying (if I’m missing something here, please let me know). It just feels like you’ve created an entire scenario, a huge dramatic, painful situation that simply doesn’t exist. You’re angry with him, and yet YOU’RE the one having sex with him. I don’t see a gun pointed to your head or even some smooth talking charmer lying to you about the other woman. I see a man doing exactly what you tell him. I see a man telling you he can’t stand the way you express your powerful fiery nature, though he’s intensely attracted to – actually loves – your fiery nature (two completely different things).

    And the one thing I wish to see, that I don’t see in this letter is you talking about YOU – about, yes, the way you express your fiery nature. It has gotten you into tremendous trouble. I wouldn’t be telling you this if you weren’t a Reiki practitioner. As a healer, I assume you must be conscious, spiritual, and self-aware – and yet there is none of that in your letter. After your melt down and the letters you sent to people he knows (to me – that would be something I would NEVER forgive. I would be frightened by someone who would be so out of control as to do that. And yet all I hear from you is that you feel bad about it. I would hope to hear your awareness that this is not behavior that works, or will EVER work for you…and it is just this behavior that drove him away. The only way to clean all this up is for you to do the work on yourself that will end this kind of emotional, almost – forgive me, but it’s true – child-like and immature acting out of your anger – and begin a kind of authentic expression that will change your life. Love, Rori

    She answered me, sharing stories about her man that curled my hair, and explaining much more about her past and how things are going for her….and I wrote her this:

    Marie, thank you for responding in such an open way.
    1. Have you ever had counseling? It would help you so much. – For me…your number one focus should be on making as much money as you can so that you can afford some high quality help. The trauma of abuse runs so deep it’s really crucial to learn how to speak and behave in a new way, so that you can start creating some new, good patterns for yourself, and also to release the feelings, on a cellular level that are haunting you. Here are some things I would suggest – some you can do yourself!

    1. EFT – Erika at Erika.awakening.blogspot.com does this by phone, but yu can download the how-to for free at emofree.com – and get all the newsletters that will help you, too. I’d take one or two sessions from someone so you can really get the hang of doing it for yourself 24/7
    2. join forums, support groups, my community on the blog online and really get into the discussions so you can see how other women have turned things around.
    3. If you can afford my programs…get Toxic Men – it will teach you how to stand up for yourself and yet SPEAK the truth to a man in a powerful way that will change your vibe forever, if you keep practicing it. Then Reconnect Your Relationship – which will continue the book and get you deeper into emotional things you can do for yourself and ways to express yourself that will change things mightily. Targeting Mr, Right will teach you how to Circular Date – which you MUST do – and there’s a RIGHT way to do it that feels good, is THERAPEUTIC, and will move you in the right direction.

    Talk therapy does not work very quickly (and often, not at all.). If you can find a group program that works off my book or programs, or “Calling in the One” – or works with the Inner Child, or Quantum Tracking – or something like that (as a Reiki practitioner, you must come in contact with healers of all kinds….see if you can TRADE services with them. Look for SOMATIC RESOLUTION, Somatic Experiencing, BIO K, Theta Healing…stuff like that that you can learn to do for yourself). Also, food and nutrition is HUGE for our states of mind and well-being. Sometimes, stopping eating sugar and eating more protein can change everything about your life.

    Now that you’ve told me more, this sounds like a man who is playing games, very difficult. This is a toxic relationship – and at this point in your life, it’s all you know. Please do not believe that your “love” for him is significant. You instinctively love abusive men. Think about your options, your possibilities.
    Love, Rori

    From Rori to the community here: I realize that there’s much info here that you’ll need to translate this into help for yourself…but if there are key things here you’d like me to expand on…let me know…I’ll post…Love, Rori

  143.  #143Linda on November 7, 2009 at 9:40 am

    Hi Ushi Thanks for your story. I know that every day has posibility. Even an old relationship can rejuvinate. Hope can be found in all things if you look for it.

    I openned up my POF profile again. I will leave my pole in the water. There are a couple of men on my horse too. I am on a search and am trying to stay open. I close up sometimes so I can get my bearings and get a fresh perspective.

    Time flys and I just am tired of wasting mine so I am tweeking my investment of time and self. Who knows what tomorrow brings. I wanna a great relationship in mine.

    Hugs Linda

  144.  #144xgirl on November 7, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    wow it feels great to hear from Cassandra :DD

  145.  #145Cassandra on November 9, 2009 at 11:56 pm

    I feel so far behind and like I just can’t seem to catch up. I jump on here every moment that I can but feel so far behind I feel lost. I feel so thankful for the support that I receive here and I do post what I feel about stuff but gosh….I am so far behind!

    Uschi….Your story above about how you met your man and you went out on the water and were taking flying lessons…..that sounded so romantic!! That felt like a beautiful fairy tale when I read it!! 🙂

    Marie….I have been here for a little over a year now and I used to feel the exact same way that you do…..like it would take forever for me to get to where I wanted and needed to be but Rori is so right in what she teaches us about baby steps. Keep taking them because each day that you take another baby step….pretty soon weeks will have gone by and then months and then a year and you will look back at how far you have come and celebrate that! I feel hopeful for you and your situation! I feel excited that you are here because the support, love and guidance along with your own commitment to YOU and your own happiness WILL bring you thru this and you will end up finding the best YOU that YOU can possibly be!! We are here for you!! Sending you that hug!!

    xgirl…thanks for your post! That felt warm and wonderful!!

    Overall…I am feeling so much better. I have my days as we all do but now that I am out of the house and in my own place…I feel like each day I am seeing things more and more clearly. I have also been doing some life coaching with another awesome coach and between being here, listening to Toxic Men & Modern Siren over and over and over and over….and reading Rori’s ELetters…I DO feel that I am making progress one baby step at a time. That feels good. I am focused on ME and what makes me happy and trying to rid myself of all of those old, severely broken and no longer useful messages that no longer serve me well and throw out the limiting beliefs! They are going out with the trash! I feel excited doing all of this work on myself…some of it is HARD but it feels good and I feel like I am seeing change and that for me right now…is what this is all about! YAY!!

    Love to all….

  146.  #146Uschi on November 10, 2009 at 7:36 am

    trust me and believe me that this is not a fairy tale it’s the real thing – that’s how it happened and I want back what we had then – he is a good man.

  147.  #147Cassandra on November 10, 2009 at 8:00 am

    Hi Uschi….I feel really happy that that was NOT a fairy tale and that you did get to experience that kind of romance! How cool!! I feel excited that you will have that back. If it is not with him then it will be with someone that is even better for you. I used to get do mad when someone would say that to me about Charles but now? I can actually SEE what they were all saying. I was too close to it and couldn’t see the forrest for the trees. I totally agree with Rori…..I feel like because of how our society is…we as women are indeed ‘trained’ to do too much and focus on making our man happy which has pretty much turned the girl / boy energy upside down. What about us?? Who then takes care of us? I want to be the POND and that YUMMY PIE and not a river or giver so to speak. I am really really trying to lean back and completely focus on ME….give to ME….play in my meadow and do things that make ME feel good. I have never done this before….ever. It feels so odd for me to do that because I was raised to think and feel that being selfish is a BAD thing so it feels SUPER scary for me to BE selfish and put ME first or focus on ME before any man that is in my life. I am taking baby steps though and the more I lean back….even though I am not in a relationship per se….the more a man seems to come toward me in subtle…well and some not so subtle ways. It feels good. I try to keep up on everyone’s posts although I feel that I am so so so far behind I will never catch up but YOU are here doing the work on YOU for YOU and that is totally something to be celebrated! I feel a sense of hopefulness that you WILL have back what you had and what you want to have again but this time YOU will be a better YOU therefore things will be even better than they were before and YOU will be even more happy than before! That feels exciting to me! I send you a big hug!

  148.  #148Paula on November 10, 2009 at 8:24 am


    I’ve only been following your story for a few months but I feel SO happy for you and so excited for you. I feel you are thriving and getting stronger and happier. I feel so inspired that you are focusing on you. I do feel overwhelmed sometimes with trying to keep up with all the posts and all the comments but I feel hugely grateful for the supportive community here. Thanks for your lovely recent comments.

  149.  #149Cassandra on November 10, 2009 at 9:08 am

    Hi Paula….thank you so much for your beautiful post. That felt wonderful to read. I too feel so so grateful for all of the amazing support here and honestly…without Rori and ‘Siren Island’ and all of the love and support here I may very well have been back in the house and still with Charles. I do feel so thankful for this amazing place. Your support also feels wonderful so thank you so so much Paula. I do feel so much more hopeful than I think I ever have. I can feel myself moving more and more away from Charles each day although he does still call daily. I am not sure why but he does. I am less and less available to answer his calls and he even mentioned that the other night. I no longer have that desperate…what did I do wrong….what happened and how can I fix it feeling or mentality and that feels fantastic! I know that if he came back to me and asked me to get back together – that would never happen – but if it did….I do feel that I would say no. That is not good for me and each time I do talk to him I get off thephone feeling horrible. I can feel myself moving further away from him emotionally and that does feel good. Thanks again Paula for your support……it felt wonderful to read!
    Sending you hugs….

  150.  #150Uschi on November 10, 2009 at 10:56 am

    thank you so much and I am throwing it right back at you

    YOU are here doing the work on YOU for YOU and that is totally something to be celebrated!

    change it to

    I am here doing the work on ME for ME and that is totally something I will celebrate!

    and thank you for the following words of yours it gives me a great sense of hope to find FRIENDS out there who feel hopeful and believe I can succeed.

    I feel a sense of hopefulness that you WILL have back what you had and what you want to have again but this time YOU will be a better YOU therefore things will be even better than they were before and YOU will be even more happy than before! That feels exciting to me!

  151.  #151Marie on November 14, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    Hi everyone,

    Thanks for all your messages of support. And thank you Rori for your programmes, I received both yesterday and have been avidly listening and doing excersises.
    I was surprised to get a text on the day he was going away to ask me what kind of perfume I wanted!!!!!!!
    While he was away, I did text first to wish him good luck,because the pitch was very important to him.

    Then I was very surprised to get a text at 1am on Wednesday,to say how good and positive he felt and he thought he was in with a good chance….so, I said well done and left it at that.

    Then I kept my promise and didn’t text or email,then on the day he got back I got a text…telling me he was stuck on the motorway, my reply was traffic has been bad all week,more texts about traffic…..Kept my replies to one liners as right now I’m feeling that we need to have that “talk” that he promised 4 weeks ago.

    So, tonight after he text asking how things were, I replied by saying I would feel so happy if we can meet up tomorrow and how did he feel about that? His reply was tomorrow does not look good as he is still jet-lagged and won’t be safe to drive a 200mile round trip, but Tuesday should be ok. I’ve left it at that, I did not feel I needed to text back.(I’ve only slipped up once in not using “I feel” so, pat on the back for me LOL.

    Now,I need advice here. How do I go about starting the talk on Tuesday? Or should I feel how the conversation goes first. Should I bite the bullet and bring it up or should I wait for the next time we meet when things are a bit calmer….(he’s just back from his trip, so he will want to talk about that,while he was away I closed my business down, as much as it was a good thing for me to do, I do not want to be discussing that,I’m thinking of starting up a new business,but I’m not ready to have him involved in my plans until I know where I stand, so I won’t be discussing that either) I do not know where we shall be going, I’m the girl from now on and intend to be treated as one, so the decision making is up to him….as long as we do not go to the SAME chinese restaurant. again.
    Rori, the tree trunk exercise feels so good,I sink straight into it,and it carries me all the time. I sink my roots and no “storm” can uproot me.
    The funny thing is,I’ve lost my texting and emailing obsession and it feels great not living with that icky feeling of just waiting to see if I get an answer back. Now, I take my time in answering him, I have more important things to do and I’m also not thinking about him all the time…and that Rori feels like,I’m finally out of this cage and I can fly…I know it is early days yet,but I feel like hmmmm! I’ve cleaned my window now and I can see that there is daylight out there! A wonderful feeling.I’ve climbed from 3 to 6 in a week,sometimes my ladder gets a bit shaky,but I’m hanging tight.
    Right now, I’m so glad I’m a Gemini!
    Love to all

  152.  #152nikita on November 14, 2009 at 6:35 pm

    Did you confirm Tuesday?

    I feel so excited about this mysterious perfume surprise 🙂

    Tuesday feels just as good as tomorrow.

    I wouldn’t leave it open…..what if he thinks tuesday doesn’t work for you….or you are pouting bcuz it’s not tomorrow?

    I mean…I get really “gemini” and sometimes disappear and it seems I’m not interested….so just curious if Tuesday is tentative or solid…

    xoxo nikita

  153.  #153Marie on November 18, 2009 at 6:18 am

    Hi Nikita,

    Yes, everything went to plan. The perfume is Chanel No5.then I got taken out to dinner….
    Put all of Rori’s tools to work,and I felt like I’ve just won the lottery.
    The really funny thing was he kept commenting on why do I start every sentence with I feel then ask him what he thinks…”I’ve been living in my head in the last 2 years,but I’ve always felt that does not sit very well,I much prefer and feel so lush and exotic being a girl.His reply was I love you being a girl and I can feel it’s having an effect on me.You can guess where the effect was!!!!
    He also commented that I looked and FELT calmer,happier and had a great air of confidence about me! WOW! (that’s coming from someone who never had anything positive to say before) Thank you RORI
    So,to move the conversation on I said it was time to go for dinner! We had a lovely time,lots of two-way conversation. But what I wanted to ask will have to wait as I could see he was too tired to have any kind of serious conversation.
    I left it open and did not ask about when we shall be seeing each other again.
    I feel good and very positive about myself and will continue “feeling”
    Take care.

  154.  #154Turtle Girl on January 14, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    Hi ladies-
    This is my first post and I only just found this site a week or so ago and I have been reading everything I have times for and it is really incredible stuff. I commend all of you for your bravery and tenacious spirit even in the face of some very painful emotions. Isn’t it funny how our emotions cause commotion and what we really often need is locomotion?

    ***Everyone – this is Rori – I thought this comment was such a hopeful, universal piece I used it as the next post….go here for it:

  155.  #155Rori Raye on January 14, 2010 at 7:41 pm

    Wow – Turtle Girl – this is an amazing comment. I’m going to just assume it’s okay to post this as a guest post…Love, Rori

  156.  #156Lisa on August 29, 2010 at 7:35 am

    I feel hopeless. “The guy” and I were chatting on fb and he said at one point that if he weren’t on the road so much he would have tried not to be so casual with me. I felt like melting. Before that he was bringing up the fun we have had (our casual sex fun). I did not feel his saying he would’ve tried for more than casual was sincere, since it is my belief that if you really want someone, you will make it work no matter what. Then I felt and still feel bad thinking he doesn’t really want ME. I told him I had met someone and truthfully the guy is just texting me right now. I told “the guy” I just cannot do the casual, I thought I could, but cannot. I hope I didn’t sound apologetic saying that. Anyway, now I have been crying, hurt, sad. I wanted to believe that he would’ve pursued more. He is out this way a lot anyway so why wouldn’t he want it? I feel he was dishonest even though he said he doesn’t lie to me. I want to retract telling him there is someone else, it isn’t really true and I fear he will find someone else and then I won’t have him at all. The guy that was texting me I can tell that he was leaning toward sexting and I have not gone there with him, he backed off and yesterday no text at all. Screw him, screw “the guy”. I am sick of these jerks who want more and are waiting for more. I feel like I am the more. I don’t want to be “the guy’s” speedbump on his climb to fame. I am too good for that.

  157.  #157mary on June 23, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    Hi there, Im not sure where I can share a bit of my story to get some feed back but I hoping through this comment I can get some help. I feel like I need as much advise as I can get…a few months ago I found out I was pregnant and since then my boyfriend has become very distant. At one point he expressed that he was in love with me and just recently he told me he does’t know how he feels. He doesnt call or text and definitely does not make an effort to see me anymore. I definitely have been chasing him and now I realize I’ve doing the wrong thing. I really would like to work things out but I don’t know what to do or where to start…especially now that I’m expecting and can’t exactly move on.

  158.  #158Tracy on August 4, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    Hi Rori
    I just wanted to say a public ‘thank you’ for all your help with your programme i recently purchased ‘Toxic Men’

    Im from the UK and came across your site when browsing on the web. I am only into the first part of the programme, but even your opening message left me feeling the most positive I have felt in a long time whilst i’ve been in this ‘toxic’ relationship. I found your message very touching and allowed me to stop feeling bad over the way I have been treated and the way I have acted in my relationships.

    My partner (a toxic and depressed man) and I are on our ‘last try’ after a messy and vicious break up last week. I felt it was your programme I needed to tackle a reconnection with any success as I had failed in the past with him.

    The great thing is that I feel that it now DOES NOT MATTER so much if this relationship works any more, because i already feel different and more confident as to what I will tolerate and am able to look at myself in the mirror, and know that if its not this man, then another (and another and another!!) will show up before too long and be the one for me. Your expert words, that ring so true in your programme, and the concise and gentle way in which you express your methods really make me feel like I can make a change. Although you are miles away and technically a stranger, I feel you are now a friendly voice in my head when thing will get rough (and they will).

    I will be purchasing more programmes for sure…Modern Siren may be the one of this relationship does not go the distance.

    Once again, thank you for really making a difference to the way I see myself within a relationship. I don’t feel I can ever go back to the old me – I really have turned a corner and will take everything I am in the process of learning from you and your community and carry it with me into finding my prince charming! I recommend anyone purchase your programmes, it is a small price to pay for a complete change in confidence and attitude that will carry you through to finding the love that we all crave and deserve. Best Wishes, Tracy 🙂 x

  159.  #159Had Enough on September 12, 2011 at 4:37 am

    Wow I am reading this with tears streaming down my eyes! Why do we allow men to treat us this way hold on just incase! I allowed a guy who has strung me along for 4 years come back he said all the right things took me places the trouble is he has all his exs on fb and I found out despite him telling me he wants to meet my kids again to move to the next level telling her that the lovely comment she says to me on my wall could have been hers if she had stayed and that she was taken so what is he supposed to do and that he fancies her rotten and when she asked about me he said ” she has her moment” WOW I crumbled and then said goodbye and this time I mean it he does this in rotation with all his exs and rips my heart out each time its hard but its harder to live with that I wont!!

  160.  #160Leah on September 19, 2011 at 6:33 am

    It’s so reassuring to know that I’m not the only woman who has had to go through this. The toxic man in my life has been tearing me apart for almost four years now. I learned about six months ago that he’d been living a double life. He came clean with me one night, confessing that he had just ended a ten year relationship with his live-in girlfriend. He claims he did it for me. BULL$%^#. For me to actually process this and realize I missed all the signs is very difficult. All I can say is that he is a good talker. Over the years there were times that his behavior was shady and I tried to walk away. But when someone you love and trust says all the right things to make you believe them, you give in. The worse part is that our peers knew, and didn’t tell me. People that I never hurt, never bothered, never asked for anything from kept this secret from me. It consumes me. Just last night I gave him my last thoughts and told him I wanted him to leave me alone and stay away from me. He ended up calling me every name in the book and basically saying the most hurtful things possible. Things that you don’t say to a woman you love. Things about his ex, and that she was better than me in every aspect and he was crazy for leaving her for me. I just feel like I was sucked in to a nightmare. Everything about it has been a nightmare. I feel like I have a soft spot for him still and pray I can move past this. I am PRAYING!

  161.  #161margaret on November 25, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    i might actually have some respect for this dude if he told the real truth—i just want 2 f*** as many girls as i can, take a number. it wouldnt be pleasant to hear but at least it would be honest—instead he puts just enuf sugar coating on his bullshit to keep you hooked–that’s what’s truly despicable

  162.  #162margaret on November 25, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    you know, i should probably just shut up and leave my last comment alone, but i’ve been thinking about this a lot because i have a toxic husband who either cant or wont give—you know men have all kinds of strategies to keep us off-balance and themselves in control–and we could defuse all of them if we could just stop despising ourselves for five minutes—circular dating is a big help but we need that foundation of self-love for it to work—and we would be able to feel anger instead of despair–IF WE HAD AN OUNCE OF RESPECT FOR OURSELVES!!! its just beginning to dawn on me that this is the place to start

  163.  #163mercedes on January 14, 2013 at 7:29 am

    I need advice!!
    I have been dating this individual for 9/10 months. As in any relationship everything was great when the relationship first started, when things were new and shiny sorta speak. When we met he was living with someone but not with them, so he said.Told me they had been having problems and so on. He eventually moved out of her house and in with me. Through mutual friends of theirs i guess she realized who i was finally and started stirring up “drama”. I didnt let her get to me but alot of things she told me were dead on right. Although my boyfriend denied what she had said…..he would still go see her, he would call her all the time, they continued having sex after he left and moved in w me. He said he is friends with all of his exs, hes a nice guy…yada yada. I let it blow over but i stayed with what she told me. Its not an easy thing to let go. Everytime he would leave i had the thought in the back of my mind that he was going to call her, go see her…etc. I would immediately get into angry mode alhough i tried so hard not to. This started causing uneasyness and tension in our relationship. Well i ended up becoming pregnant and when itold him he went into total shock. He though he couldnt have kids becausr in his 30 years hes never had anyone come up prego. I made a dr appointment and he went with me, im sure to hear for himself from dr that i was indeed pregnant. I didnt get the expression or happiness i wanted from him. After a couple weeks he finally came around. Went to his moms out of atate for Thanksgiving and told the family. I was estatic, his whole family was. They even planned to come for a visit to meet me and my kids from a previous relationship that i have. We went to a dr appointment and dr discovered i was pregnant, with twins. I wasso happy drove to his work to tell him the news and he was totally in the “oh hell no” mode. Broke my heart but understood he was scared. Unforunately i started feeling sick now and then and he started being cruel. Saying i was using being pregnant as an excuse to try to keep him from going out with friends, or doing anything unless i was with him. This wasnt so. I really felt horrible. Finally made it to my next dr appt and was told i had lost one of the babies and it wasnt likely the other would survive. At 9 weeks i miscarried and a week after he decides he needs to move out because he isnt happy and hasnt been for awhile. Said he hadnt been himself and he needs to find him again and cant do tht w me or in a relationship. Im devistated frm the miscarriage and now this. My heart is completely shattered. Before leaving he said i was different from any girlfriend he has ever had. His exact words were that ” i was bomb” bt i flip out for little things and im bipolar. He also said he is messed up in his head and needa help. He cant let things that i say go and it eats him up. I suggested we stay together but live apart but he doesnt want that. Says he needs to do what he has to beforw he can think about being in a relationship. I dnt know how to handle all this. In a month my life has turned upside down.