How To Be With A True Blue Man

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intimacyHere’s a great letter – so it’s an anonymous “guest post”!

Hi Sirens

I am happily married to a wonderful completely devoted “true blue man” and I can tell you that I have been through this exact situation before during our engagement period.

Lessons I learned:

1. Men know what they are doing!! They are not clueless. My husband confessed to me that he wanted to see if this was OK for me since he wanted it (it feels good of course!) but if I would not tolerate it, he would give up his female friends (mild flirting ones) completely. And he did.. completely!

2. Clear boundaries are needed. I agree that there is a “never” vibe and there is a “maybe” vibe that a woman throws cause she somewhere realizes that she does it herself(mild flirting with other men!). While I circular date with the world and myself as a married woman, I do not deliberately seek out eye contact anymore with other men or give them a feeling that anything is possible. Hence Im not in a maybe zone ever and I do not feel good if my man would be there either and he knows this.

3. A heart to heart without blaming him is always the way to go. If your man can hear out your feelings and be inspired to make it better for u, you have love that’s worth sticking to. If he dismisses, you too should reconsider.

As with my husband, till today we discuss these dynamics when we attend parties etc and we are very honest about it. He laughs and confesses how this woman was trying to seduce him etc.

What saddens me, somehow, is that there are so many many women out there without respect for other women’s relationships. Married men have definitely tried to flirt with me etc but I always remind them that they are married and they should step back and think how this would make their wife feel! This was way back when I wasn’t married myself.

Sadly, we are living in a world where men are becoming more and more passive and women more and more aggressive and leaning forward and hence more women come at my husband than men coming at me !!

This is the dynamic almost at every party…. And its sad and I believe that as intimate, loving partners we have to be consistent / persistent at sharing our discomfort when things with other women transpire. I agree different women have different levels of being liberal..but as you may see, I want to be the sole point of attention/affection of my husband and from how I am seeing this develop, my husband was inside his heart, yearning for such a woman who treats herself like this to start with.

This is my favorite topic as it was the “core” issue that came between my engagement and marriage and I completely put my foot down on it. It was a non negotiable for me.

And after normal resistance, which would come from even the best of men since at some level you want them to step up even more as men, he agreed to respecting the boundaries we set(no new private female friends etc, no contact to exes) and his actions match his words well.

Love to all. If it feels right to you, its ok. if not, say it and step out.

Posted in


  1.  #1Kath on January 6, 2014 at 6:35 am

    Amazing post Rori thank you!- My partner of 3yrs had a lot of female friends when we first met who were all former bed partners!- and it seemed to me the only reason they hung around him still was because he made them feel good rather than the other way around. I wanted to be the centre of his world and imbetween his 3 grown up children and his Sister I guess I am. However, he still maintains a friendship with his Xwife which I really don’t mind if he were open about when he sees her, but he isn’t. I said to him that it would be good if everything was above board and that it would be good if he could feel able to tell me when they would be meeting up. He said it was my problem and I had to deal with it and then told his xwife that he would never tell me when they were meeting up because I would get funny about it!- Hmm, I tried to be honest and open and that is what happened!- In every other respect as a partner he is everything and more that I could wish for- it is just this rather big thing that it would appear he can’t be honest with me-and would even go to the lengths of lying to me because he thinks I would be funny with him if I knew the truth!- Not sure how to get past that one!

  2.  #2noquay on January 6, 2014 at 7:05 am

    Unfortunately, Rori, you are right. Men are not only more passive, they are becoming more “dumbed down”, do not keep themselves healthy, have fewer life skills, and yep, not much in the way of social filters. Last year, I had to have help moving a 300 lb furnace, the man I bought it from and his assistant, both married, hit on me. WTF! Keep in mind this is a very small town, we all belong to the same very small social circle. One of them was a problem for months, wanting to take me to lunch, help with stuff around my house. I finally asked him to bring his wife next time. I was married to a wonderful man for 12 years, skilled, highly educated, intellectually and emotionally brilliant. Both of us had a plethora of opportunities to cheat, both of us had many opposite sex friends, neither of us so much as looked at someone who’d flirt at parties, etc. In contrast, I had my heart horribly broken by a co worker here who, unbeknownst to me, had a simultaneous long term relationship going on with another out of town woman while actively pursuing me. I realize any involvement with a colleague is bad news, however, for an educated woman, colleagues are the only folks that are even remotely compatible with you as this is an impoverished, very redneck region. Cheating is cheating. I am wondering if this lack of respect for primary relationships is a Western thing. It seems really widespread here and is behavior that would have serious consequences back home (far northern Midwest).

  3.  #3Femininewoman on January 6, 2014 at 7:48 am

    Kath she was in his life before you were. Maybe she accepted him as a person with his idiosyncracies a bit more than you are now. The way I see it, he might be afraid of your wrath and so he lies. It is no excuse but it seems like the lying might be because he wants to make sure he doesn’t do or say anything to make you unhappy. I also wonder if he doesn’t sense that you trust him enough to be in contact with her without you making assumptions about what is taking place between them?

  4.  #4Kath on January 6, 2014 at 8:14 am

    Hi FW, thank you, wise words!- He has said as much-didn’t see what was wrong with him having all those female friends-even though some of the contact was totally inappropriate, in any ones eyes!- He has been apart from his x-wife for 8yrs and they didn’t have a monogomous relationship-both of them had “an understanding” but he did love her very much and put up with a lot in terms of her behaviour etc. He still tries to protect the children but also has confessed to her that he feels angry that they are divorced and doesn’t think its right that they are “trying to be happy with other people”-that has rung an alarm bell with me and which is the reason for me feeling that I am not sure why he is with me if he still feels that way about her. We have tried to discuss it and he has said that he doesn’t love her now and doesn’t know who she is, but I am not convinced. Call it gut instinct or my own insecurities, I’m not sure how to deal with it- perhaps I should ignore it altogether and focus on me and him rather than even taking her into consideration at all, she has nothing to do with me afterall.

  5.  #5Cris on January 6, 2014 at 8:18 am

    working on being surprised and have no expectations definitely work!! but the man must be a good one, as mine. Thanks Dominique!

  6.  #6Cris on January 6, 2014 at 8:19 am

    this entry is speaking about how to be with THAT man…

  7.  #7Femininewoman on January 6, 2014 at 8:20 am

    Truly she doesn’t Kath. Reading all this suggests to me that you might not know what your deal breakers are. I find myself wondering why are you still there? Your alarm bell, I don’t think is off. The thing is how are you honoring yourself? It seems you are expecting him to honor you in a way that you are willing to do for yourself. I would read the above article again and again if I were you to see if anything resonates and if it creates a shift inside you.

  8.  #8Kath on January 6, 2014 at 8:27 am

    FW- You’re right, the thing is I try and be understanding- He told me that she was very insecure in the relationship and despite theirn understanding, accused him of all sorts of things and didn’t like him speaking to women!- I’m not like that- but when I have tried to show him how different women behave and when something isn’t appropriate or how actions could be interpreted (because he’s asked my opinion) he then accuses me of sounding just like her!- That equally makes me cautious about bringing anything up that is concerning me!- It just feels like he uses it as a smokescreen for what is really going on. I don’t mean that they are having an affair or anything but I really do think that he can’t disconnect from her.

    As to how I honour myself- yes- I do have historical problems with that and I do try to work on that. Guess I just need to try harder!

  9.  #9sami on January 6, 2014 at 9:36 am

    Hi sirens

    This was my letter to you all on the thread about men talking to women online. It would feel good to let Rori know…can anyone tell me how I can let rori know that it was me? of course she can trace it back to my email. feeling sooooooo good to read this. what a surprise to be featured as a guest post ๐Ÿ™‚ feels on top of the world

  10.  #10LoveAlways on January 6, 2014 at 9:48 am

    While some of the advice in this letter is good, some of it seems “unrealistic” to me – If he WANTS to flirt, that cannot be ignored. It has nothing to do with the wife – feels to me that is getting in his head. Actions speak louder than words. So it seems to a smoke screen to a red flag. Not saying they can’t work it out (they apparently are doing great), but this approach ties up the truth with a cute bow and characterizes that truth unrealistically. Woooooooooooo! I need to heal this acidic ‘thought’ that just came out of me. It is so unlike my normal vibe to respond this way, but I truly feel the truth of a man wanting to flirt is something that cannot be swept under a pretty rug. I guess I was triggered.

  11.  #11LoveAlways on January 6, 2014 at 9:50 am

    Sami – if you make a post with something that will go into moderation and include your message in there, Rori or her assistant will see it.

  12.  #12sami on January 6, 2014 at 9:51 am

    Hi Lovealways

    nobody is perfect. neither are you. if your man steps up and sticks to his words once you have shared with him how it makes you feel, then thatยดs a true blue man you have ๐Ÿ™‚

    Its ok. we all get yucky thorny thoughts. I do too. I just acknowledge them and love them too anyway but donยดt let them poison my mind so that I start acting on them.
    love sami. I hope me and my hubby last for 7 centuries ๐Ÿ™‚ touchwood

  13.  #13LoveAlways on January 6, 2014 at 9:54 am


    Thank you ๐Ÿ™‚ I’m working on it. Wishing you & hubby love and eons of centuries!

  14.  #14LoveAlways on January 6, 2014 at 10:07 am


    I want to shed a different light on this situation – I guess is is part of my trigger. My happily wonderfully married great perfect husband ex has been hitting on me heavily for YEARS. I mean, begging me to go out, sleep with him, travel with him. Wifey is sweet lady, etc. Have nothing against her and we have a very nice relationship. I want nothing to do with this man other than what connections we must have, but I do keep it cordial and light so there is never any drama between us. It works and she knows he and I speak and interact with each other when we must. I’ve been clear about this, still he persists. I can handle him and have put him in his place. It is not a problem for me, but I always ask myself – WHAT IF I WERE NOT THIS KIND OF WOMAN???? What if I did not have this level of boundaries? Now, this a personal trigger for me, a personal experience, and I’ll go as far as to say that I am slightly tainted as far as men maintaining relationships with women from their past. I know he is toxic. But it always rings in my head . . . is he the exception or the rule? Ughh, I’ve gotta work through this trigger right now so I get on with my afternoon!! Ugh

  15.  #15Dominique on January 6, 2014 at 10:11 am

    Kath – 4 – If this is indeed true about your man, trying to convince otherwise, doing anything to try to change the situation will likely no work in your favor. Yes please put your focus back on you. Choose trust. If he’s not trustworthy, this will come out all on its own with no help from you. Not choosing trust, i.e carrying suspicion can be felt and could very well create exactly what you fear.


  16.  #16Dominique on January 6, 2014 at 10:12 am

    Here’s another on trust Kath –

    Love to you.


  17.  #17Dominique on January 6, 2014 at 10:13 am

    Cris – ๐Ÿ™‚ xxoo

  18.  #18sami on January 6, 2014 at 10:14 am

    Lovealways !

    I totally relate with what you say. but you are again in your head.. it will not help you if you finally figure out (by being in your head) whether he is an exception or the rule…because the next man that comes up for you could again challenge what you established and you will have to start it all over again.
    Lets just make it about you. FIrstly BRAVO!! to you for not being among those women that destroy other womenยดs families. You can feel so proud of yourself.

    Next, as an ardent fan of Roriยดs work, I would like to ask you: why do you have to engage with him to the extent that it makes you feel uncomfortable? step back ! let him know it makes you feel unwell…uneasy. If he doesnยดt check his behaviour, cancel contact. you are under no obligation to tolerate from ANYONE what doesnยดt feel good to you.

    However, framing negative opinions or thoughts about men is not going to SERVE YOU in being open and warm to the next true blue man who is yearning to come close to you and claim you and give you the world. Donยดt let these thorny experiences with toxic men take away your glory..your softness and warmth.

    P.s.- you sound wonderful ! you have strength of character.. which as we see is so missing these days. love to you. oh i feel so excited today with this post that I am talking a lot ๐Ÿ™‚

  19.  #19Dominique on January 6, 2014 at 10:15 am

    Sami – She knows.


  20.  #20sami on January 6, 2014 at 10:18 am

    Hey Dominique. I cannot reach your website for the last two weeks. it shows me an error message. Happy new year !! ๐Ÿ™‚

    And who knows? Rori does ?

  21.  #21kyla on January 6, 2014 at 10:20 am

    Sami loved this post the first time I read it and so happy to see its a main post now too! Thank you for sharing, I love hearing happy stories, I feel fuzzy warmth in my heart!

  22.  #22sami on January 6, 2014 at 10:22 am

    ooo thank you Kyla.
    I wish all you sirens were around me and iยดd invite to a pina colada and celebrate. it feels good,,,so so good. Also, feels like this post fed strength to my soul..Im on the right track…. on my bridge ๐Ÿ™‚ Love love to you.

  23.  #23Femininewoman on January 6, 2014 at 10:23 am

    Sami I am not sure I would describe those men as toxic. Many men flirt. They use suggestive words. Doesn’t mean a woman have to or will engage with them. Some men will keep pushing for years no matter what boundary the woman has established. At least this is what my experience has been. Some even flirt though they know they would never take action to really cheat.

  24.  #24LoveAlways on January 6, 2014 at 10:23 am

    Okay, here we go, riffing this out

    feeling smiling lies
    tidy white veneered grins
    two faces

    I feel insecure
    there is no floor for me here
    and It’s a drop
    in the the abyss of disguises
    tucked neatly into dressy suits and shiny shoes

    I need to release this and just fall

    and I’ll float after a while
    because there is no bottom
    and that does not matter because it’s fear weighing me down

    fear “he” is lying!!!
    singing me half truths

    there we go
    there it is!!
    I gotcha now negative voice!


    I am free to choose
    to not want
    to fly away
    with wings of choices

    when I start to drop again
    (and I certainly will)

    keep my eyes
    open open
    open open open

    Filling my soul with light
    trusting my intuition
    so I will float after a while


    yeah, that’s what i’ll do

    fill my body light as air

    I’ll breathe air into fear

  25.  #25LoveAlways on January 6, 2014 at 10:33 am

    Thank you Sami

    Yes, this is certainly a trigger for me! There are circumstances that keep this man in my clearly beyond my control. I’ve put as much distance as possible. He is just who he is. And I know that there is something about feeling whether this type of man is exception or the rule because they gravitate towards me (ugh). But it’s been much better for me since I start with Rori’s programs. This post by Rori triggered my “stranger” (from Toxic Men)! My deepest fears – that used to hold me hostage but not more, but it’s there and I know it and work through it when it rears up ๐Ÿ™‚ I feel bad for putting my “mess” up on your post ๐Ÿ™ Nevertheless, I am celebrating with you in the loveliness you have shared with us. It does give me hope and I feel that hope and joy along side working through my trigger and my stranger. Love to you and thank you for reaching out to me so warmly <3 You've got it going on siren!

  26.  #26LoveAlways on January 6, 2014 at 10:45 am

    Feeling repetitive
    and that feels soothing in a weird kind of way

    Like a song
    a chant
    soothing the waves of fear
    until the welling up runs still

    Still waters run deep

    I tried to touch bottom with this
    that feels good

    I feel light now

    my storm has passed

    the riffing worked

    feeling relieved

    going to go out and do something nice for me

    later sirens


  27.  #27Indigo on January 6, 2014 at 10:48 am

    The guy from last night who is taking me to an expensive restaurant on Wednesday night, after he told me the name of the restaurant, said “I hope you don’t think I’m pretentious?”
    And I said, no I feel like I am being spoilt. I like being spoilt.
    And he said that was music to his ears ๐Ÿ™‚

    Aah ๐Ÿ™‚

  28.  #28Femininewoman on January 6, 2014 at 10:49 am

    Wow Indigo!!

  29.  #29kyla on January 6, 2014 at 10:50 am

    Indigo Yay! I love it!

  30.  #30Kath on January 6, 2014 at 10:55 am

    Thank you Dominique and Love always, I really really value your advice. I do have an issue with trust!- life long battle really!- every time I think I’m improving, something happens to knock me back and make me disbelieve and not trust. It is fear though, and I do have to let it go and master my insecurity. It is true that intuition is a strong feeling and I can suss when someone is telling the truth or not, I just have to trust that they will-and understand when they (he!) doesn’t and the possible reasons why not!

  31.  #31kyla on January 6, 2014 at 11:12 am

    Whenever I’m on a date and the bill comes I reach for my purse, I can’t just sit there and ignore it and wait for him to pay. He/They always pay and then I thank thema nd say how good it feels. DrWho laughed then I did this and said “I asked you out, it’s on me” and this keeps ringing in my head. I’m watching all the programs and it comes up so often and I feel so icky about money and dating and coming across as entitled. I want to write a speech around this and I feel resistent.

  32.  #32sami on January 6, 2014 at 11:22 am


    Im just the opposite. i feel really really triggered… pissed…if on a date ..a man ever asked me to split. its still a trigger sometimes for example if my husband would forget his wallet at home and ask me to pay. im majorly triggered around money..but as time passes..this is also healing..and i am being aware of this ๐Ÿ™‚

    oh i even dated some men who asked me out.. then took me to an expensive restaurant and asked me while looking at the menu.. what my budget was?? LOL ๐Ÿ˜€ felt so yuck. ewww…

  33.  #33kyla on January 6, 2014 at 11:45 am

    Sami my rule is I expect to pay for myself and if he pays I feel surprised and happy and if he doesn’t then I drop him ๐Ÿ™‚

    I feel so resistent to the idea of expressing that I don’t want to pay. It feels tense in my tummy at the idea of saying it. Its never come yp and yet when I hear it in the programs to just sit there and say/do nothing I cringe and resist the idea.

  34.  #34kyla on January 6, 2014 at 11:49 am

    All the men in my life pay for me – friends, colleagues, bosses, family members, dates, exs – Ive never had to pay and I ALWAYS reach for my purse and I’m prepared to pay. Why am I feeling so icky when it comes up in the programs? Bleugh I feel icky discussing money period.

  35.  #35Indigo on January 6, 2014 at 11:51 am


    Have you tried saying it feels so much more romantic when he pays?

  36.  #36kyla on January 6, 2014 at 12:01 pm

    Indigo, I could say that, thank you, that feels ok to say out loud. And thats true too. If he didn’t pay then it wouldn’t feel like a date to me and that’s why I have the rule that I would simply drop him, I have enough friends!
    I’ve never needed to say anything so its really a non-issue at the moment but working on scripting and triggers and oooh this one just had such huge rebellion in me.

  37.  #37Daria on January 6, 2014 at 12:07 pm

    i feel so triggered when women say stuff like “sadly women have no respect for other women’s relationships”

    ummmmmmmmmmm…… why would they? they’re not IN that relationship…. isn’t it more to the point to respect Themselves and what they want?

    if a man is coming to me, why would I “respect” his relationship or ‘remind him” anything… that sounds masculine

    if women respected themselves… and men’s choices, that would feel much better

    how about ‘sadly so many women have so little respect for themselves that they commit to men who hit on other women, when they don’t feel comfortable with this’


    so mad

    reminds me of that girl who started all this drama because her baby daddy was flirting with me


    Sadly, many women think its up to other women to respect THEIR relationship like the law, known or not, as if they are in a relationship with these other women, not a MAN a fully functional human who makes his own choices and decisions

  38.  #38Daria on January 6, 2014 at 12:09 pm

    I feel inspired how she talked about man resisting boundaries, and also how he craved a woman like this already

  39.  #39Daria on January 6, 2014 at 12:09 pm

    I feel inspired to strengthen my boundaries ๐Ÿ™‚


    I just cried because I felt so bad and disappointed with my last experience

  40.  #40Daria on January 6, 2014 at 12:11 pm

    consistent and persistent at sharing our discomfort

  41.  #41sami on January 6, 2014 at 12:18 pm

    O daria !!

    Love to you !! just lots and lots of warm fuzzy love..we are all moving ahead and being on our bridge… and thatยดs all that matters ๐Ÿ™‚

    and i would disagree that I married a man who “wants” to flirt with other women. he is as imperfect as I am…and I love him for it..what matters is that He stepped up for me once i did share my discomfort with him..that feels good..he took care..that feels good..

    what is meant by respecting other womenยดs relationships ..can be further qualified to “married ” coupleยดs relationships.. and plus I believe its completely “self respecting” for a woman to reject attention from a man who is NOT AVAILABLE ( i.e. married)

    thatยดs all i meant my dear. But i do understand you..and what I feel happy about is that you let it out…you did some cleansing..and now you focus on the happy part..the last few lines. men want to be with women like us ๐Ÿ™‚

    Much love to you Daria !! and a big squishy hug

  42.  #42Daria on January 6, 2014 at 12:20 pm

    ew I feel really really pist about the words ‘women who destroy other women families’

    I feel SO ANGRY at this blame on women. I feel like stomping hard and declaring that I will NOT buy into this codependent thinking

    I AM NOT capable of destroying another woman’s family

    a man IS capable of leaving a relationship (destroying a family)




  43.  #43Andrea on January 6, 2014 at 12:20 pm

    I have a feeling of such contentment today. Listening to my own heart and my own boundaries, I have, I think, effectively got myself out of relationship situations that last year were bugging me.

    I honestly told stinky CD that I don’t have romantic feelings for him and while I appreciate his gestures and his gifts; accepting them, knowing that I can’t and never will return the affection he has for me, makes me feel like I owe him something. I told him that I appreciate the gifts and his concern for me, but I don’t like feeling icky and like I’m in his debt.

    He said that he doesn’t expect anything but a friendship and he wants to keep giving gifts to me. I told him that what he said FEELS untrue. I simply told him that I feel twisted in my gut and I feel uncomfortable and I feel out of balance. I want to FEEL good around him, and I don’t.

    He really got mad and hurt. He said, “So what do you want to do with this friendship?” I said, “I want to distance myself from you.”

    And that’s what I want.

    Professor CD… well, I really feel done with that as well. And by done, I just mean that I feel no response at all to his texting. So… I don’t respond. And he is not that persistant. The End.

    I feel a contentment because this is the first time in my life that I’m not in chase mode with anyone. I’ve no one to try to impress. No one to pine after. No one that I’m interested in. And I see this whole wide open space that I can begin to fill up myself. It feels like the first time ever that I really see, really feel the potential of ME. So much to explore. So much to get to know. So much to BE. It’s a dizzying feeling.

    It feels like all of these men who were in and out of my life this past year were kind of setting me up to expel my inner demons. I feel really clean.

  44.  #44sami on January 6, 2014 at 12:22 pm

    Andrea ๐Ÿ™‚ feel happy for you and sharing your contentment ๐Ÿ™‚

  45.  #45Daria on January 6, 2014 at 12:26 pm

    Thanks Sami- Hugs!

    First, I was not the one who wrote that you married a man who Wants to flirt with other women ๐Ÿ˜‰ I didn’t get that at all from the post and was kinda surprised LoveAlways was triggered with that thought

    I also agree that it’s self respecting to not engage with an unavailable married/committed man… and that feels so much better than taking responsibility for HIS relationship… and solves the ‘issue’ without putting it on ‘other women’ to ‘respect’ a relationship they are not part of

    I feel angry when the wives of men I know attack me with those ‘destroy family’ words ‘don’t respect other womens relationship’ words etc.

    It’s actually not my responsiblility at all and I don’t want it to be

    and actually…. it’s quite possible that some of these men could divorce/become available just to be with me… if that’s what the MAN wants…

  46.  #46Lisa on January 6, 2014 at 12:28 pm

    WOW I’ve missed a lot!

    Ok quick update…

    “D” made a comment today that had some sexual tone to it…( he called to wish me good morning) and I stepped back and said something and then he was responding as if he wasn’t clear, then I said, I feel uncomfortable about that and it makes me feel all icky and … before I could finish he said OH I don’t want you to feel uncomfortable! and then it all changed! I said this isn’t all about sex is it? he apologized and said no…but then the conversation got weird and I didn’t fix it.. or smooth it over… and went on about my day… then he e-mails me… and sends me this wonderful e-mail saying he is so sorry he made me feel uncomfortable and that if I will allow him to make me see that in his actions that he really does want a deep relationship with me and not some shallow sexual thing… and would I forgive him and allow him to call me tonight… I wish I could share the e-mail.. it made me cry… and I opened up to him and said I feel ok about this now and your words touched me and made me cry…

    I really love it when a man gets my feeling messages… and I don’t have to do anything!

    WOW… I’m amazed at how this man responds to me, reads me, and is so amazing with his words… and still it is just fantasy until he is sitting in front on me. And in 4 more days I really hope he is!!!


  47.  #47Daria on January 6, 2014 at 12:29 pm

    Yay Indigo!

  48.  #48sami on January 6, 2014 at 12:29 pm

    Daria.. I totally agree with you on that front. I have never ever blamed other women that my man wrote to. He was doing it, had to solve it, he had to step up and take responsibility..and if not..i was going to get out of there.
    Glad you understood the “self respecting” as in not engaging with unavailable men part. Thatยดs all there was to it ๐Ÿ™‚
    Feels good to be understood ! we are on the same page.
    much love.

  49.  #49Andrea on January 6, 2014 at 12:32 pm

    Daria # 37
    “how about โ€˜sadly so many women have so little respect for themselves that they commit to men who hit on other women, when they donโ€™t feel comfortable with thisโ€™

    I so feel a resonance with this. I committed to a man for over a year and KNEW he was flirting with other women, and KNEW he was messaging women on facebook… and STILL gave him my commitment and my heart and my drama and thought that because .. “I loved him” he owed me something. Yes, I always felt on edge. I always felt strung out, and like it was somehow my fault, and if I were just better looking, or more secure, or stronger, or cooler… that I could somehow change him, or change the outcome, or change my feelings.
    But my feelings were right. My feelings of, “I don’t want to be with a man who makes me question whether or not I AM THE ONLY WOMAN in his heart.”

    If being in a relationship with him makes me feel BAD… then why am I in a relationship with him????

    I finally got wise and got in love with myself.

    It was hard. It still hurts to realize that I spent a year drugged out on a man who was not the one for me in the long haul. But I needed him to be in my life for the lesson, hard as it was. I don’t blame the women he flirted with. I don’t blame him. He is who he is.

    I blame me for staying so long. I don’t care who HE is. I simply realized, “I don’t want to FEEL like this anymore.”

    I want to feel respected, loved, cherished, the only one, adored, sought after, wanted, in an open and honest relationship.
    I don’t want to feel tricked, duped, lied to, that people are conspiring against me, hated, like I’m keeping him from something he REALLY wants to be doing. I don’t want to feel like I have to force him, beg him, cajole him, manipulate him, into loving me. I don’t want to feel like I need to change in order for him to love me.

    I like that Daria. It brings it back down to ME. What am I really comfortable with? What do I REALLY WANT TO FEEL???? And why?

  50.  #50Daria on January 6, 2014 at 12:32 pm

    Kyla that one felt so triggering for me. It can still feel that way at times. it’s actually one of my major achievements/shifts with the Rori programme… the money on dates thing

    it feels so uncomfortable just thinking that it may come up

  51.  #51Daria on January 6, 2014 at 12:34 pm

    yAY Andrea! that feels inspiring! /I remember being sought after… I;ve spent a couple months chasing men right now and it would feel so good to go back to not doing that

  52.  #52Daria on January 6, 2014 at 12:36 pm

    sami – I feel glad to feel got about the ‘self respecting’ part

    honestly I feel mistrustful that we’re really on the same page after the previous words about other women destroying families etc

    I would feel so happy to have that kinda thinking eradicated from human dynamics…. because it shows up in my life a lot

  53.  #53sami on January 6, 2014 at 12:38 pm

    Ok Daria then we are not on the same page and that too is ok ๐Ÿ™‚
    im sorry that it triggers you so much ๐Ÿ™ I wish you a good day nevertheless xo

  54.  #54Daria on January 6, 2014 at 12:39 pm

    ooooh Andrea this feels really inspiring for some situations I’ve been in

    “I honestly told stinky CD that I donโ€™t have romantic feelings for him and while I appreciate his gestures and his gifts; accepting them, knowing that I canโ€™t and never will return the affection he has for me, makes me feel like I owe him something. “

  55.  #55Daria on January 6, 2014 at 12:40 pm

    Sami – kk ๐Ÿ™‚ super love and hugs to you!! your marriage and the way you handle your boundaries sounds awesome!

  56.  #56Daria on January 6, 2014 at 12:42 pm

    I just realized that the reason I don’t feel open to my friends men even ifthey hit on me is because I AM in relationship (friendship) with that woman… and I don’t want to create extra pain for her

    but if the connection with the man felt more important than the friendship/relationship with the woman, I would feel open to that too

  57.  #57Dominique on January 6, 2014 at 12:43 pm

    Sami – 20 – Thank you for letting me know about my site. I was only down for a few hours last week. All is well now. Could you try again, and let me know please? Thank you.

    And yes I meant RR knows that this letter is from you. ๐Ÿ™‚


  58.  #58Daria on January 6, 2014 at 12:44 pm

    however obviously they man would have to leave the woman and focus on me quickly, hence the ‘self respecting’ “I want to be the only one” thing

    I don’t know if that ‘only one’ is even a thing for me, it’s acutally not until I feel a strong connection

  59.  #59Daria on January 6, 2014 at 12:47 pm

    I want to be the ‘focused on’ one… until I feel the connection that I want to be the only one…

    seems like that does/will come naturally through dating/getting closer for me…

  60.  #60Daria on January 6, 2014 at 1:15 pm

    awww Tereana it felt so great to read “Daria’s back” on the last thread ๐Ÿ™‚

  61.  #61LoveAlways on January 6, 2014 at 1:54 pm

    Oh Daria I feel so good reading what you wrote about being the focus! That hits home for me! Thank you for putting that so lovely!

  62.  #62LoveAlways on January 6, 2014 at 2:12 pm

    Kath 30

    Rori has a tool you might find useful . . . I did. Don’t want to quote the wrong one so I will post it later after my massage. Cding myself to caviar and a massage and feeling gloriously better ๐Ÿ˜€

  63.  #63Lisa on January 6, 2014 at 4:04 pm

    @Daria #37 Right ON! You rock! It isn’t up to me to respect another woman’s or man’s relationship… and yes, how am I to know! I’d have to be in their business. I’m not going to remind him of his choice… that’s his job…

    it might be masculine but it also just feels stepping out of my own business and into others and trying to be in control…. somehow…

    I can say NO to a married man and not have to give any reason.. just NO Thanks! or NO with a smile….


  64.  #64Shannon on January 6, 2014 at 4:29 pm

    I feel so icky tonight. I have a date with someone from match that feels good to me–but almost like an imaginary relationship already.

    I had a date yesterday that I allowed to go on too long. He is very, very sweet and wonderful and totally into me. I feel really turned off by him physically, and I feel sad about that. If he looked different, I suspect I would feel thrilled about it, but I just feel sad and disappointed.

    At the same time, it’s like my ex just takes every chance to tell me how “fine” he is with it being over. He keeps asking me what my plans are. It’s almost like every time he notices me, it triggers him to tell me how great the breakup feels to him.

    I’m about to go out on a date that I was looking forward until it was set up. Now I feel really afraid that he’ll be physically unappealing as well. I haven’t managed to attract men all over the place like others seem to be able to do.

    *sigh* I just don’t feel good with any of this now. And I feel irritated at my ex. On the one hand, I wish we could be back together… on the other hand, it doesn’t feel remotely possible.

    I got modern siren and I’m watching it for the second time. Hopefully I’ll get more of a takeaway from it on the second go-through.

    I didn’t handle his “It’s fine, you can tell me you have a date, I don’t mind, it’s great!” very well. I said, “I feel so angry and sad every time you tell me how great you think this breakup is and how fine you are with it.” I know that’s accusing. I just didn’t care in that moment. I didn’t care if we got back together or not, I just wanted to smack him and tell him to shut the (badword) up and leave me alone.

    Meh. Off to the date… gonna go in the bathroom and put a little eyeliner on before I go. That’ll make it all better, right? :p

  65.  #65Lisa on January 6, 2014 at 4:37 pm

    @Shannon I might have felt the same… shut the F8&k up…. yes… and good for you for being in your power to know that is how you felt…


  66.  #66Lisa on January 6, 2014 at 4:39 pm

    @LoveAlways #62 Great! Love treating myself! I had a massage today too… more for pain management…and a necessity but still a treat to be pain free for awhile…


  67.  #67Lisa on January 6, 2014 at 4:49 pm

    @Sami #32 I’m glad you brought that up… b/c I haven’t had a man do that yet… but I’m glad to prepare myself in case it comes up…

    I’ve said recently when getting out of the car, is there any reason I need my purse… he said No…

    but I want to sit with how I might react if it happens would I pay my share and then leave and not go out with him again? Would I just sit there and look at him softly and say I feel uncomfortable? Or would I just get up and leave? Or I might just say a glass of water please?

    Hummm I used to reach for my purse like Marc Evan suggested, but I don’t do that now.. and even when one man put the check to the edge of the table, I just kept talking… and he never said a word…

    “M” after 4mos said he felt strange b/c he noticed that nothing was coming back… humm though I wonder if he considered what I did do to contribute? I’m always happy to do whatever is in their budget or just not go out to eat and do free stuff, listen to a live band at a place that has no cover…

    Thanks for bringing this up… cuz I can imagine I might feel hot and uncomfortable… if a man said that to me…..

    I do soften and not go into any energy around paying as if when I even begin the date, there is no intent on paying for anything…


  68.  #68Olivia on January 6, 2014 at 5:17 pm

    This post and comments are so timely. I am in a “borderland” right now. I am happily with a man 1.5 years where the relationship is growing and there is love there and a lot of compatibility but it’s very much a work in progress and I wonder if the love will deepen and grow into something timeless feeling…

    My ex bf who I love immensely and timelessly (but had a multitude of compatibility issues with and drama) is begging to get back together with me.

    I’m staying where I am and feeling everything.

    Almost exactly one year post-Rori this is what transforming myself into a Siren has come to –two men who both love me (and I love them both but differently) and the pain of not being able to have them BOTH!

    Oh how my life has changed!

  69.  #69Olivia on January 6, 2014 at 5:20 pm

    @Daria -truth

  70.  #70prplpsn28 on January 6, 2014 at 5:30 pm

    Hi everyone! Signing in to new thread.

  71.  #71Andrea on January 6, 2014 at 6:42 pm

    Lisa and Sami, I had a dating experience this summer: I met the man on He asked me out to a typical, local, chain restaurant. I said, “sure.”

    But I dressed well in a dress and jewelry etc. When he saw me, he asked, “Would you like to go someplace a little more fancy?”

    Again, I said “Sure.”

    We ate, ordered a bottle of wine, had dessert.. and then… it happened….

    He pushed the check toward me.

    I definitely was shocked. But I didn’t show it. (my heart was racing, this has never happened to me before, and I can’t imagine ever thinking that it ever would.) But somehow I was able to maintain my composure.

    I remembered two things from Rori’s One was to always act as though everything you do is Goddess doing. No matter what it is, just act as though you are a Goddess.
    And that if you have no response… simply don’t respond.

    I just sat there and looked deeply into his eyes, smiled… and waited. It seems like hours went by, and finally he said, “Well, there’s the bill… uhhh.. ummm… do you.. are you going to pay at least half?”

    And I said. “No.”

    He said, “Why not?”

    I said, “When somebody asks me out on a date, I don’t pay for it.”

    He said, “Well, if you’re not prepared to pay, this time, I guess I can take care of it.”

    I said, “Thank you very much. That’s wonderful! And if you’re not prepared to pay every time YOU ask me out, then don’t ask me out again.”

    But I didn’t raise my voice. I just smiled. I said it all very sweetly.

    I thought for sure our date was over. But after he paid, we walked out of the place, and he suggested we go to the near by Irish pub and have a beer. I said, “No. Not if you are not going to pay.”

    He said, “I will. I will pay. I just don’t want our date to end yet.” (shocked again)

    Then the rest of the night he spent explaining to me that he had never been treated that way. He’d never had anyone stand up for themselves and simply refuse. He said that he’d been married to a woman who wanted to control everything and she paid for everything and made all the decisions and he didn’t really know how to act anymore.

    We spent the rest of the evening having a nice time. But…. I never agreed to go out with him again. When I got home I was still kind of shaken up.

  72.  #72Tereana on January 6, 2014 at 7:16 pm

    Reposting, becuase I’m not sure if that went through:

    I actually think that sometimes married men and women can be the best flirts – because it really doesn’t have to go anywhere! It can all be just for fun, and when you have good inner boundaries, there is nothing in your “vibe” that would allow anything to go too far for you. You know where you stand with your man. And when you have love in the center of your life like that, you really can open up to other people.

    I remember that feeling. I remember that when I was engaged, I was able to be extra flirty and confident with other men because I felt so rock solid with the man who loved me that I just soaked up their attention while at the same time feeling “off limits” to them. Which added to the flirty tension. But never in the slightest did I ever consider “doing” anything with anyone else. It was all just for fun and an expression of the good feeling I was having.

    It makes for good “no pressure” flirting. Which is natural. But “flirting” and “attempting to seduce” are not the same thing. Still, as long as you and your partner on the same page and having good communication, that is what really counts!

    (sorry if it’s a duplicate. I fixed some typos ; )

  73.  #73Tereana on January 6, 2014 at 7:25 pm

    Report from the success corner!

    Things are going pretty well with Okc, and it’s been less than a week! Already a date on Sunday, a couple of other asked-for dates, and many a man turned down. When they send me one-word messages like, “hi,” I basically just delete the message. If it’s a man in like Albania or something, I just block him. Unless he were for real, but these men are not.

    I’m chatting with several, and I even got a surprise phone call from my Sunday date today! He’s going to be in the city tomorrow. I was thinking he might ask me out to lunch, but I’m not sure if he will. I stopped short of suggesting it. Then he sort of jumped off the phone.

    It’s weird. I don’t feel massive chemistry with him, and sometimes I even feel outright bored when he’s talking. And yet, I can’t think of any reason not to talk to him or go out with him. He just seems like a genuine guy who isn’t trying to push things along too fast. And heck, he was a champ and setting up the coffee date. We even showed up at the exact same time. That stuff is awesome. So yeah. I’m just sticking around to see where that goes. And meanwhile, not ignoring the other guys who are asking about me.

    It is kind of fun.

    I did NOT send the letter to S today. I decided that, even though I love, love, love everything I said, and I could probably even condense it down a little more to make it more concise and to the point, that’s not even really the issue. The issue is, if I write to him at all, it’s a problem. I WANT to say these things.

    But then I was in my kitchen, making dinner, and I just had this comforting sense of, The Universe has got this. It’s all taken care of. He’s loving me. He loves me. I do not need to worry about it. The letter helps me more than it helps him. It’s really for me. So, I’ll keep it. Maybe I’ll get a chance to say some of those things in person. Who knows? But for now, I am just going on my merry way, doing my thing, dating my guys. I still miss him. But not so much that I can’t move on to find someone else who’s really treating me well and interested in the same things I am… : )


  74.  #74LoveAlways on January 6, 2014 at 7:36 pm

    Kath – In Commitment BluePrint in the Power section Rori talks about the Ballet of Power (three positions). This tool raises you above the situation – you are able to step out of the drama he is experiencing or involved in ( you stay high status). That is my interpretation and how I used it.

    Lisa – Yea for massages! Mine started out as pain treatment, as I started a whole holistic regime and stretching it is more relaxing now.

    Oliva – That feels so beautiful to transform into a totally different situation . . . empowering

  75.  #75Femininewoman on January 6, 2014 at 7:36 pm

    Shannon I think you did great. That felt so real and authentic it is like I could feel you, just reading your words.

  76.  #76Millie on January 6, 2014 at 8:31 pm

    Daria #37
    I TOTALLY agree with you!
    Women are not responsible for what men do..if another woman is upset her man is flirting shamelessly with other women, be mad at the man, not at the other women.

  77.  #77Millie on January 6, 2014 at 8:33 pm

    Tereana I love your post. ๐Ÿ™‚
    You sound very relaxed and at peace.

  78.  #78Millie on January 6, 2014 at 8:40 pm

    I had a great day at work today!
    I feel so inspired to get workin! I’m so happy that my job fills me to the brim with happiness…

    I think I’m going to start a new dating tactic. And that is to say NO, to almost everything, until I have what I want…which is a man I feel attracted to, that is calling me, that wants to pick me up and take me out, and woo me. Just “no” to everything else. I feel depressed because I have problems upholding boundaries. It’s hard when my heart wants one thing, but my body is saying another. Like I want to sleep with a man so my vibe is giving that off, but at the same time I want a relationship. So my words aren’t matching my vibe. I have such an amazing body, it makes sad that there is no man to make love to it. It’s kind of a waste….That’s how I know my solitude is all my doing. The problem is certainly not my looks….and that’s depressing.
    Anyway, that my indulgence into my self-loathing moment…moving on the better things.

  79.  #79Indigo on January 6, 2014 at 8:56 pm

    Thanks Daria, and I feel a great resonance with what you say – not buying into the idea that another woman can be responsible for a woman’s relationship with her man. I myself am incredibly respectful towards other people’s relationships – I even back off from my guy friends when they are in relationships. But I don’t like the idea of another woman holding me responsible if her man somehow pays me some attention that makes her feel uncomfortable. I used to be that way, and I have healed it in myself, because I realized it has nothing to do with that other woman, and everything to do with me and my man, and how I feel about myself. But it was a hard one, for sure.

  80.  #80Amber on January 6, 2014 at 9:34 pm

    Really feeling the success vibe from all of you ladies. I feel great reading these.
    I feel exhausted and I have almost decided to take a month to just date myself and concentrate on floating away from my relationship with (T)
    (Thank you LoveAlways-24 for the imagery) Floating away feels better to me than stepping back. I will certainly remain open and loving when he contacts me, but if i’m floating, drifting, I think I will feel better about just existing. Also if I’m floating there’s no way I can try to ‘snatch him up and shove him back in the cage’ when he drifts closer. I will just float along with him, however near he chooses to be. Meanwhile I will date myself. I’m taking myself out for wine on Friday night and am looking into finding a pole-dancing class near me. I will remain open to whatever amazing man gravitates toward me. I will work on my relationship with myself. I will parent my inner child firmly and lovingly so that she doesn’t feel the need to interfere in my relationships with men. I’m also keeping a journal of ‘aha’ moments this week, to go over with my therapist on Friday.
    Cheers, Sirens

  81.  #81Lisa on January 6, 2014 at 9:50 pm

    “D” called tonight and I could tell he was a little “off” but I just talked as usual and we talked about so many things we are both passionate about… and then he brought it up… I’m sorry I made you cry today… I said, oh I cried b/c your e-mail was so beautiful… he said well I’m sorry that I said something sexual that made you uncomfortable… and I want you to know that I don’t want to disappoint you… but then when I do, I will make it up to you..

    I know, I know it’s long distance and it’s fantasy until he gets here… but he just knows exactly what to say to me… it soothes me, makes me feel safe and loved… and it just feels easy ( right now) and he says if he falls for me – he’ll move here…

    Anyways… as crazy as it sounds.. I just feel so at peace with this…

    and he says he melts with all my little sounds I make… he says you have NO idea what you do to me and we haven’t even met yet…

    I’m curious about that… how he can know… how my sounds make him melt how he knew the first time he heard my voice… I wonder about that… how can that be???

    What I do know is I’ve had more of a blast talking with this man daily for more than 2 weeks than I’ve had on most of my “real dates”…..

    and of course this could all be BS he is giving me.. but I can’t imagine a man spending this many hours on the phone 2-3 hrs a day and e-mailing me 2- 3 times a day… if it was just BS…

    oh well time for sleep

    I feel so peaceful!


  82.  #82Millie on January 6, 2014 at 11:38 pm

    So I started crying and now I can’t stop.

  83.  #83Shannon on January 7, 2014 at 4:25 am

    This all feels so hard and yucky. The first date asked me to drive, and his reasons for it were logical and I gave in. Then I started to feel bad about it, and didn’t say anything. I didn’t want to feel connected to him, because I don’t find him attractive at all. So I just tried to get past the date at that point. I feel generally okay about him as a possible friend, but not as a date, not as someone I want to connect with.

    Last night’s date felt like a lot of work. It felt really hard and I felt like I was directing him constantly using “I feel”. And he didn’t seem very responsive when I felt really upset, which was something that did feel good about my first date.

    And it feels hard and unhappy being here with someone that seems to resist me entirely, and who doesn’t want to “make it worse” by caring about how I feel.

    I am back to feeling like I’m living in a nightmare. It all feels hard, surreal, and miserable. ๐Ÿ™

  84.  #84Dominique on January 7, 2014 at 6:17 am

    Tereana – 72 – ๐Ÿ™‚


  85.  #85Femininewoman on January 7, 2014 at 6:17 am

  86.  #86LoveAlways on January 7, 2014 at 6:54 am

    Amber I like that image of floating away from the relationship! Beautiful!

  87.  #87Cupcake on January 7, 2014 at 8:51 am

    Millie #82-


  88.  #88Cupcake on January 7, 2014 at 8:51 am

    Shannon #83


  89.  #89Kath on January 7, 2014 at 8:55 am

    Ooh Sirens I’m not doing very well!- Last night I really tried to talk to him and explain how I felt but he didn’t understand and sent me a text this morning saying that we needed to get to the bottom of what is going on with me and that we could have a problem. The thing is I really really tried to keep looking in at myself and tell him that I felt scared about making such a huge decision about buying a house together, even though its what I want- I was wondering where I fitted into the family- his family- and trying to come to terms with his xwife always being on the periphery of everything-he did try to reassure me but I still feel as though I can’t talk to him about this- how do I get past this!!??

  90.  #90Cupcake on January 7, 2014 at 9:03 am

    Millie #78-

    I feel sad that “saying no” feels like the right answer for you. I listened to 10 hours of assorted Rori programs in the car yesterday, and the idea of Staying Open to everything, while Respecting Your Boundaries, really struck a chord.

    I know how discouraging it is when the men who show up are way off track. It just feels like the point is to practice on them, and maybe they’ll actually be better than we suspect at first glance. (Remembering that chemistry can work against us.)

    One thing I realized as I was listening to Rori last night was how angry I feel AT MYSELF for some mistakes I’ve made- financial decisions with horrible consequences, men I pined for WAY too long (anything more than 3 minutes is too long, I’m thinking),

    The realization came when Rori was working with a woman who thought she was angry at her man. But as Rori worked with her, it became clear that her anger was directed primarily at herself.

    And the reason that I’m mentioning it is somehow it feels like that might be what’s going on with you. Maybe I’m wrong. You sound lovely– I’ve thought that before, and I feel envious of your self-confidence about your looks and feel certain that you observe yourself clearly that way.

    It feels a little though like you don’t LOVE yourself.

    I hope I’m wrong.

    If I’m not wrong, though- I’m here to tell you that from reading your posts, your energy feels lovable to me. Warm and intelligent and grounded except that wanting sex leads you off track. (As it does for me, so…that’s probably why I see it.)

    I don’t know what to say except that I’m sorry you felt sad last night. Hopefully you feel better today.


  91.  #91Cupcake on January 7, 2014 at 9:09 am


    Millie’s post about wishing there was someone to share her body with reminded me of something.

    I met a girl in a bar once who told me that whenever she’s depressed that she’s single, feels undesirable, etc, she posts an ad on Craigslist “Casual Encounters” section, saying “I feel like having sex tonight. Anyone interested?” No pictures, nothing more than that and W4M.

    Then she goes about her merry way doing laundry or whatever.

    A couple of hours later, she checks her email and there are HUNDREDS of emails who have sent photos, phone numbers, etc etc. Guys begging to have sex with her.

    She deletes them all, and goes back to whatever she was doing.

    “Folding towels in front of Law and Order: Criminal Intent feels very different when you know 300 guys are panting to sleep with you that night,” she told me. “It feels very different indeed.”

    Just thought I’d pass that along!


  92.  #92Femininewoman on January 7, 2014 at 9:14 am

    Kath what is the most important to you? Keeping this man and staying in this bad feeling place or honoring yourself? Is it that you want to keep this relationship at all costs?

    If so, then it seems you need to decide on what your trade off is.

  93.  #93Femininewoman on January 7, 2014 at 9:17 am

    Cupcake that gave me a real chuckle. Here we are clinging to relationships that don’t serve us when there are so many men out there who would put their lives on hold to be with us. smh

  94.  #94Indigo on January 7, 2014 at 9:18 am


    I love your post #90.

    Also, Millie, I think you said in an earlier thread you were 28. It’s such a tender age for self-love and self-confidence. For me, in many ways it felt like I was on the cusp. Just believe that it will get better. And believe with all your heart that you *will* love yourself completely, and that you *will* fully realize your own value in time, and so will other people.

  95.  #95Indigo on January 7, 2014 at 9:21 am

    Wow, guy who is taking me out tomorrow night started texting me with plans. And I texted back “It would feel great to be phoned with plans.”

    And I felt really nervous! I’ve realized that the more I look forward to something, the harder it is for me to assert my own boundaries. This is a *huge* realization for me.

    And I just sat with my feelings. Physically leaned back for a bit. And 5 minutes later he phoned, and apologized for texting, and arranged everything.

  96.  #96Femininewoman on January 7, 2014 at 9:22 am

    “I still feel as though I canโ€™t talk to him about this”

    If it is this important to you and you keep bringing it up to him it seems to me that your gut cannot be off. If you felt heard and honored you would not be feeling compelled to bring it up. If this man won’t listen to you now what makes you believe that he will listen to you when you buy the house or to get married at a later date?

    There was a woman on the blog who did the same with her fiance who died before they were able to get married. She was unceremoniously put out by the guy’s sisters.

  97.  #97April Rose on January 7, 2014 at 9:36 am

    I’m giggling and doing a little happy dance for you!

  98.  #98Indigo on January 7, 2014 at 9:36 am


    It feels to me like your angst is saying one of two things – either to get to a place of acceptance of the way things are, or honouring yourself and possibly breaking the exclusivity and circular dating.

    It just feels to me when I read your posts that you and he are at loggerheads and that, in my experience, is not good for a relationship. For me, it just led to more discussions like this. I wonder if taking constructive action might not be better at this point.

  99.  #99Indigo on January 7, 2014 at 9:37 am

    Thanks April Rose ๐Ÿ™‚

    me too

  100.  #100April Rose on January 7, 2014 at 9:44 am

    “…If it is this important to you and you keep bringing it up to him, it seems to me that your gut cannot be off. If you felt heard and honored you would not be feeling compelled to bring it up. If this man wonโ€™t listen to you now what makes you believe that he will listen to you when you buy the house or to get married at a later date?..”

    It took me many repetitions of this cycle, to get WM to honour my feelings. It felt frightening and I felt helpless.
    I forget in which of Rori’s programs a guy speaker says that a man needs to hear a request or a requirement six times before he takes it on. After more times than that there may not be any hope. However, I think it took my man about twelve times of me speaking up about how I felt about a certain situation. I couldn’t believe he was being so ‘mean’.

    Now I don’t judge him as mean. He takes care of me massively more than before.

    Maybe it’s because I require a higher level of care and respect from a partner now that my self-esteem has gone up (through working with Rori’s tools, and here on the blog with you wonderful gals)

  101.  #101April Rose on January 7, 2014 at 9:46 am

    lesson learnt ;

    I wouldn’t agree to marry a man or move in with him until I felt I was respected, and felt safe and secure with the level of care he has for my feelings.

  102.  #102Femininewoman on January 7, 2014 at 9:49 am

    6 times. Woww!!

    I believe 3 times and I am done. Otherwise I feel I am trying to convince and being manipulative. It is my belief that if he really wants to do something I would not be needing to do so much work. Also that reference “that we could have a problem” came across as a bit of a threat, to me. This is from a man who keeps close contact with an ex-wife even though he knows his current parent is uncomfortable about it. As far as I am concerned this man knows exactly what he is doing.

  103.  #103April Rose on January 7, 2014 at 10:00 am

    If it were me, I would get right into my truth. What would that be?

    “I feel so weird right now. I want to feel 100% happy and safe with someone I am going to live with”.

    And then turn aside from the interaction and get on with my life.
    And let him come forward with solutions.

  104.  #104Femininewoman on January 7, 2014 at 10:06 am

    RE 101: LIKE

  105.  #105Kath on January 7, 2014 at 10:49 am

    I really thought that I had found someone who wanted to be with me and spend the rest of his life with me. We get on really well and even though we both have faults I can accept them. However, the longer we have had the time to get to know each other I have come to feel that he isn’t over his x and can’t disconnect from her even though he was the one who ended the relationship after discovering another affair. I have tried to understand but at times my alarm bells ring so loudly that I find my blood boiling because I feel like I’m being treated as a fool. When I try to discuss with him how I feel, he has a very clever way of making me out to be the bad person and says that I have the issues-it makes me so mad!- and yet I try and stay calm and I ignore my concerns and carry on and see if there is any change and then things get better for a while-and then something happens again to shake my confidence in the relationship. I just know I’m right and yet I try to be loving and understanding and allow him space to sort out how he feels-but part of me still feels as though I’m being a mug (yet again!).

  106.  #106Indigo on January 7, 2014 at 10:52 am

    Having recently dated several men who are so willing to hear me and consider me and contact me, and step up their game for me, and want to lock me in, I don’t believe I would ever settle again for a man who made me do so much work.

    With D, I simply had endless repetitions of my feelings of discomfort about things – I cajoled and repeated myself endlessly, why I did this I still haven’t got to the bottom of. But now when I see how easy it can be I just can’t see myself going back to that, or ever working that hard again.

  107.  #107Shannon on January 7, 2014 at 10:56 am

    I am feeling good reading today. I feel so much admiration for you women. I feel honored to be here with you.

    And I felt so amused that I laughed out loud at the whole “300 men want to have sex with me” lol.

  108.  #108kyla on January 7, 2014 at 11:13 am

    The 6 times thing is in toxic men. As I remember it was in relation to giving chances to change a toxic behaviour, the maximum being 6.

  109.  #109Lisa on January 7, 2014 at 11:19 am

    WOW I just can’t imagine telling a man he can ‘t have female friends… It just feels so controlling and sexist…. Most of my friends are men b/c I get along with men much better.. b/c I’m not catty and gossipy… or competitive… so it wouldn’t fly with me for my man to say no men friends… b/c then I’d have basically no friends…

    that feels so icky and cotrolly for me anyways…

    I either trust him or I don’t… not having female friends won’t change him into a trustworthy man

    I guess, I’m on another planet again…. so different… hummmm just curious about this

    “D” had a friend die and so I’m feeling strange now about him coming… says he is, but also not sure when the service is…

    I’m feeling strange out it…. and I’m also really ok if he doesn’t… I’m not attached… though I was, but I’m not… and I’m keeping my plans for next week even if he decides to come next week…

    I’m really loving the new me… being me unapologetic-ally seems to be fitting… and allowing myself and looking forward to being unpopular…

    and still I’m loving the attention I’m getting and feeling it is a great step forward for me…


  110.  #110Indigo on January 7, 2014 at 11:58 am


    I also don’t have a problem with my man having female friends. Like you, I also have lots of male friends and wouldn’t want them to be considered a threat, because they aren’t.

    The way I see it, women friends who have been around for a while are friends for a reason… if he wanted to make a move on them, he would have done so by now.

  111.  #111Sophie on January 7, 2014 at 12:07 pm

    it’s funny sometimes the timing of posts – this conversation about men flirting with women/having women friends etc I believe is an individual thing whether it’s a trigger and I know for me it has been about whether I feel safe with that man and how his energy is with other women rather than I have a set-deal breaker – someone said in an earlier post you can tell in the energy where the line is and I feel that too

    However, and its been touched on before, I do sometimes feel threatened by other women – not threatened but I value female sisterhood and I feel disappointed when I can’t trust another woman’s integrity with regards to someone’s relationship

    I have a crazy situation in my life where a friend I introduced to my brother ended up being his girlfriend (now fiance) and it transpired she’d been having an affair with another friend of mine’s husband for nearly a year – it ended soon after she met my brother – my brother stayed with her but it fractured our family because I felt so betrayed by her deception – i respect that he can make his own decisions but I do not feel like I can have a friendly family meal for example with someone I do not trust at all…i feel very sad and don’t know how to reconcile any of it…my brother and I were close and now we rarely speak…a wedding I don’t feel able to go to…and who knows babies??? this was the strangest most unexpected thing that ever happened in my life and it was because for some reason what she did was a HUGE PERSONAL trigger for me…

    Indigo – Yay yay yay to the updates – April Rose too yay! I am whooping and any sad Sirens (((()))))) – things do change allllll the time – everything is shifting and moving and transforming

    For some reason (I do not know!) B is being radically attentive – radically! – date nights – every night sleeping in the same room – telling me daily he appreciates me…I don’t know maybe cos we talked about no longer living together it just shifted all of the pressure or maybe I shifted my energy cos I just thought I’m not going to spend this year dragged down and I’ve been doing a lot of happy things for myself and making plans about living overseas…it was always my plan I just got diverted – so anyway in a matter of days i’ve gone from feeling like I was going to go crazy with how dark it all felt to picking up some positive momentum

    Millie – I think you’re doing great too – I liked what Indigo said – I mark 27 as a real turning point in my life – it was the year I got sober but that was because something happens I think in your late twenties – a shift towards really becoming the person that you’re growing into – the last eight years have been the deepest, most transformational of all the years and I am definitely more confident in myself – you’re ahead of the game anyway cos you know Rori!!!! xxx

  112.  #112Femininewoman on January 7, 2014 at 12:29 pm

    Kath I wonder if it is because somewhere inside you are okay with him being so close to his ex. Maybe because you are afraid of being alone so you are willing to kind of settle? Do you feel it deep down in your bones that this will not work for you? Are you mentally prepared to walk away from the relationship if he continues the level of contact with his ex?

    As far as I am concerned you don’t even have to tell him. If you are sure about it down to your toes it is my belief that he will feel and as such will chose his own actions and make his own decisions.

  113.  #113Lisa on January 7, 2014 at 12:39 pm

    @ Indigo Yes, exactly! I agree <3
    @Sophie yes, it is all relative for sure…. <3

    I also think it takes a very secure woman to be able to handle other women around her man… and an absence of jealousy… IMO

    for me, lots of inner work I've done… to get here..and a trust in my intuition that if it was happening, I'd feel it… women friends or not if a man is a cheater, he is a cheater… just thinking out loud… my 2 cents..


  114.  #114Femininewoman on January 7, 2014 at 1:41 pm

    Reminds me of a guy who I was planning to marry when I was in my 20s. I heard about another girl and asked him about it. He denied. I confronted her and she admitted “yes we are friends and so”? This was just about when we were supposed to get engaged. I told him if he settled for her he would be settling for second best. I was young and kinda foolish/ignorant but I was confident about myself back then. She claimed she was pregnant after it came out that he had sex with her. He had her do a pregnany test and collected the negative results himself and showed up at my job with it begging me to forgive him. He followed me around for months begging. I decided to move on to another country to get away from it all and pursue further education. He did eventually settle with her, got married but apparently his heart was always with me. She eventually threw him out and divorced her. At which time he had a mutual girlfriend track me down and try to get us back together. I thought she was crazy at the time. Till 20 years later he is still tracking me and even admitted about a year ago that he doesn’t believe he will ever be happy unless he marries. He also told me that he never ever wants to lose contact with me again. He contact me about a month ago after almost a year. I was shocked he even still has my number and he told me that is only one of the things he still has for me. Kinda scary but yeah.

    A woman who is confident is confident. A woman who pays attention to her intuition will know when her man’s heart is with another woman. This woman my guy married knew his heart was always with me but she was willing to take him away when we were younger. As time passed, from what he told me, she became increasingly unhappy because they were never on the same page.

  115.  #115Femininewoman on January 7, 2014 at 1:52 pm

    “Till 20 years later he is still tracking me and even admitted about a year ago that he doesnโ€™t believe he will ever be happy unless he marries me”.

    This guy is one who has has proven to me that men always come back. That men keep going after what they want. That even though they love you it is not necessarily enough for them not to cheat. That a woman’s confidence in herself can hook a guy.

  116.  #116Kath on January 7, 2014 at 1:58 pm

    FW- He says he has done all he can to show me how committed he is to me. He trusts me and has put money into my savings account for us to buy a house together- he has allowed me to clear some debts- he has DONE a lot and yet I still worry that the feeling, the true emotion isn’t quite there. He is very good at doing what he wants-has been selfish in the past and still been seen to do the right thing, and having been suspicious, I checked his cell and sure enough today he text his xwife to say “I’m working in our old house today, it feels really strange x”- and yet he’s told me in the last there were no nice memories there for him, he’s lying, I’m lying- where is the truth?-what happened to the love?

  117.  #117Kyla on January 7, 2014 at 3:38 pm

    Kath your feelings are all that matter. If the relationship doesn’t feel good that’s your answer right there. Its really not about his ex at all, she’s none of your business. Can you accept what he is offering you assuming that he won’t change? Are you ok with that? He’s done everything he can. But Is it good enough for YOU? Its not your job to change him or mould him into the partner you want but to choose to accept or decline what he’s offering you. How do you feel in his presence? Do you feel safe, secure, loved, cherished?? Can you say you are not ready to buy a house with him at this time, it doesn’t feel good.

    A good man respects a woman who honours her feelings. Say YES to you and NO to what makes you feel bad. Write a speech about how you really, truly feel and what you don’t want. Make it all about you, leave out anything that mentions him, his ex and his behaviour. Edit it down to a few sentences. Don’t get roped into explaining yourself, you are simply stating how you feel. Give him the speech and trust YOURSELF, its your job to love you and respect your needs first, he can’t if you won’t. If he’s the right man he will find a way to meet them, if he’s not willing to or able to then that is your answer.

  118.  #118Shannon on January 7, 2014 at 5:03 pm

    Okay, so I have reconnect your relationship and modern siren.

    I haven’t found anything about what touching is okay. Isn’t me initiating any touch, leaning forward?

    What is flirtatious touching, according to Rori? When is it okay to touch, and in what way? Kiss on the cheek, or just a brush of fingers along his arm?

    The only example I’ve seen is to put your hand under his rump if you’ve been with him a while and the silence in the car ride stretches out for a long time.

    So someone please explain to me Rori’s take on when it’s okay to “flirtatious touch”?

    I really appreciate it!

  119.  #119Femininewoman on January 7, 2014 at 5:16 pm

    Kath I keep losing my comments to you. You are heading down a slippery slope that will lead you splat on your face. It is never a good idea to snoop on a man. If you are feeling uncomfortable you need the focus back on you and start asking yourself some tough questions. Spying on him is only going to feed your fears and when you are looking for reasons to be suspicious you will find more and more reasons.

  120.  #120Helena Hart on January 7, 2014 at 5:18 pm

    Shannon – great question!! You want to look at where you’re coming from – if you’re coming from a place of LACK (where you’re wanting more attention or affection from him), that’s definitely NOT the time to lean forward or initiate affection. That’s the same as “giving to get” – and he’ll be able to feel that in your vibe.

    If you’re feeling totally secure, confident and “diva”-like – and you’re not coming from a place where you’re WANTING something from him – I’d try it and see what happens. It’s all an experiment! In my experience, different kinds of men react differently to this – some men really like it, while others don’t react well to any sort of forward-leaning movement. It has a lot to do with where you’re coming from, so be sure you’re checking in with yourself. Hope that was helpful! ๐Ÿ™‚

    Love, Helena

  121.  #121Shannon on January 7, 2014 at 5:36 pm

    Thank you, Helena! Sometimes I feel fine and it just sort of feels natural to touch him, but I’ve been refraining. Other times it doesn’t feel good, and I’ve definitely been refraining, lol. I wasn’t sure if it was okay when it felt fine, and what kind of touches would be okay. I do know that giving him a kiss on the cheek is a ‘no’ because his response to it was clear resistance. So I didn’t know if there were less “forward” touches or if I should just continue to squish that urge entirely.

  122.  #122LoveAlways on January 7, 2014 at 5:37 pm

    Hi Sirens:

    I’ve processed this topic for a day now and I can represent my feelings better now without the sting ๐Ÿ™‚
    I have been in relationships with men who made me feel like I was the center of their universe, even being friendly with other women. I am not a jealous woman. Instead, I raise up other women. We are a sisterhood. So when I was with men who would always have attention in some form or matter for other women, I realized I could not dislike or blame the woman, it was HIM. So the lesson for me was that there is a certain type of man that I prefer. I can spot the other type, and I won’t characterize them, on the drop of a dime. They need attention. I’ve observed that they enjoy the energy of women “sensing” other women. This leads many women to head games, competition and a host of other tactics. AND HERE LIES MY BOUNDARY . . . I don’t play that game in any type of way, make, form or fashion. I’ve dealt with men who don’t either.

    This is not to vilify any other kind of man, but I know what I don’t want and it is indeed, clearly, a deep trigger for me. My friend explained it’s a turn on, that knowing and discussing other women’s attention, yadda yadda yadda. Feels like smelly slimy mud on my soft glowing skin after a warm bath! I have to work on this and grow. I’m mature enough to acknowledge that I should not impose my idiosyncrasies on people’s relationships. What’s wrong for me may be perfect for you. There’s a lid for every pot.

    I’ve been reading everyone’s comments and it is empowering to gain knowledge from your collective experiences.

  123.  #123LoveAlways on January 7, 2014 at 5:43 pm


    I think Rori talks about melting to a man’s touch in modern siren. I think it’s modern siren. you melt to his touch, you dont have to touch him back. You give into to it. Oh yes, modern siren, kiss a tree!

  124.  #124LoveAlways on January 7, 2014 at 6:01 pm

    ((((((((((Kath)))))))))))) Follow your feelings, speak your feelings, trust your boundaries. Stay in touch with what you feel – not what he feels, what you feel. It might not immediately fix the situation, but it is the best way to deal with it.

  125.  #125LoveAlways on January 7, 2014 at 6:01 pm

    Wow, I guess I’m officially no longer “lurking” on the blog!

  126.  #126Helena Hart on January 7, 2014 at 6:13 pm

    Shannon – It sounds like you’ve been experimenting with it already, that’s good! If his response is “resistant” – that’s a big clue to lean back (rather than make another move towards him) and keep checking in with yourself.

    LoveAlways – Yes!! Great point – if he initiates affection with YOU, then you get to melt – which is way better than “efforting.”

    Love, Helena

  127.  #127Shannon on January 7, 2014 at 6:31 pm

    So I asked to talk. He came down and I just waited for him to invite me to speak. I focused on a lid of something and just let myself “be” with the lid.

    I told him I felt bad because a few days before he said he wouldn’t ask why I felt sad because he didn’t want to ‘make it worse’ and I said that when he said it, I felt like I was wrong or bad for feeling what I felt. He said, “I didn’t say that,” and I said, “I’m only telling you how I felt.”

    Then he kind of did a ‘okay, well, go on’ gesture, so I said it felt bad and that I felt silly saying so because it probably didn’t make sense… but it feels better to be sad and be held, than it feels to be sad and feel alone at the same time.

    His answer felt discouraging, but maybe hopeful? I don’t know. He said sometimes he’s not able to hug me because he has to protect himself. He’s afraid he might “make a mistake” (which in context seems to be something like maybe caring about me again or maybe more). I feel conflicted about that… a little of “thanks for calling me a mistake” and a little “at least he’s feeling like he might be tempted to make one”…

    Am I a lunatic??

  128.  #128Helena Hart on January 7, 2014 at 6:45 pm

    Shannon – It sounds like he doesn’t want to make the wrong move or be “made wrong.” Do you tend to refer to his behavior when you’re telling him how you feel (“When you did/said __________, I felt __________”)?


  129.  #129Shannon on January 7, 2014 at 6:48 pm

    Once in a while I do that. I am putting forth the effort to say it in the moment, instead. This feels nice or that felt good or I feel bad.

    However, once in a while, like this case and the case with him yet again saying how fine he feels about me going out on dates… I do say it that way. I’m only a few weeks into this, so I still feel like I’m stumbling around blind.

  130.  #130Shannon on January 7, 2014 at 6:49 pm

    But less blind than before, for the record. ๐Ÿ˜€

  131.  #131Helena Hart on January 7, 2014 at 6:56 pm

    You’re doing great!! At first it can feel a bit like learning a new language, but it will start to feel much more natural with practice. Try to not refer to his behavior at all – it helps if you take out the word “you” altogether when you’re expressing your feelings to him. This will create a sense of safety because he won’t feel blamed or made responsible for your feelings.

    Love, Helena

  132.  #132Dominique on January 7, 2014 at 7:05 pm

    Shannon – It seems as though your energy is all over him. Yes it’s a good thing to express how you feel, yet when the negative or bad feeling feeling expressions outweigh the good feeling ones, a man will start to feel like he can’t ever get it right; he can’t seem to make you happy.

    How about instead focusing only on what feels good for now? Look for anything and everything he says and does which you DO like, which you love even. And tell him – That felt SO good OR I love when you…. And melt, melt, melt.

    Keep this going for for than a few days. Try it for a few weeks. Maybe this will inspire more of what you’re looking for.


  133.  #133Shannon on January 7, 2014 at 7:06 pm

    Thanks, Helena.

    It really does feel like learning a new language. It feels like SO much. I do feel good, though, because I’m using the tools every time I remember. Trying to use the dance position, letting my shoulders down, trying to say I feel…

    A journey of a thousand steps begins with just one.

  134.  #134Shannon on January 7, 2014 at 7:12 pm

    Thanks, Dominique. I’ve been making a focused effort to be appreciative in general, but you make a good point.

    I’m doing better with disengaging. I’m working very hard on editing, and I’m circular dating (with spectacularly abysmal results, lol). I’m working hard on refocusing myself onto other things and other men.

    I’m feeling really wishy-washy about it, I think is part of the problem. Like I feel like I should want to be with him because he’s my daughter’s dad. He’s a very good, decent guy, also.

    On the other hand, I just don’t feel trusting towards him. He likes to punish me, and that feels so horrible. He also dumped me, and clearly he can’t see how amazing I am (or he wouldn’t have dumped me). I don’t feel like I want to be with someone who could dump me on my daughter’s birthday, right before the holidays, and with such malice. And just the fact that he could leave me to begin with… I just don’t trust that he won’t just do it again later. In a worse way.

    I feel confused about what I want with regards to him. Like maybe the biggest draw of getting back with him has nothing to do with me and everything to do with our daughter and that it would just be easier than all this crappy-feeling circular dating.

    *sigh* I feel wishy-washy. And maybe I’m a lunatic. :p

  135.  #135Helena Hart on January 7, 2014 at 7:16 pm

    Shannon – so true! You’ll get it with some practice! Dominique is absolutely right – go with the GOOD feelings as much as possible. The great thing about this is you can be feeling all sorts of different feelings all at the same time. If you can feel one, you can feel them all.

    Also, practice opening up and sharing your feelings about everything – the weather, things that happened during your day, etc. – to everyone. That’s a better place to start to get these feeling messages down – before jumping right to talking about the relationship.

    Love, Helena

  136.  #136Shannon on January 7, 2014 at 7:22 pm

    I am feeling deep appreciation for you both right now. Thank you so much for your help. I feel supported and it feels amazing!

  137.  #137Dominique on January 7, 2014 at 7:51 pm

    Shannon – You know you don’t have to actually date other men. You can circular date the world, and by this I mean anyone you might encounter, even those with whom you speak on the phone, animals, nature. You can circular date yourself.

    How about also stopping throughout your day to take notice of ALL the beauty which surrounds you, little things, big things.

    Can you feel thankful for these things which make you smile. How about starting a thankfulness journal. Format it like this – I feel so thankful for……(write about what it is, and really get into every glorious detail). I feel so loved. I feel supported.

    I found doing this regularly not only shifts your energy, it makes YOU feel better, good even. And isn’t this what this work is all about, YOU feeling better?

    Love to you.


  138.  #138Indigo on January 7, 2014 at 8:55 pm


    About flirtatious touching –

    Generally, I go with leaning back. Even physically leaning my body back, until a man physically comes towards me, stands close to me, inside my close personal space, which I try to invite by being warm and open (this obviously is only with a man I’m at least somewhat attracted to), and once they’re in your personal space, you might find them “accidentally” touching you, which to me is a clear sign of interest. And when that happens, I may make the occasional subtle gesture of gently and briefly touching him on the arm when I say something, sinking down into my body and melting when he hugs me goodbye… that kind of thing. It’s quite a fun way to play with how you feel and your energy. I find subtle to be best for me, that way you can gauge the situation without leaning forward.

  139.  #139Liquid Light on January 7, 2014 at 10:07 pm

    OMG, the guy that was friends with my ex, his rival, his nemesis, responded to my email about my inquiring if he might have any single friends. He’s the one that knows tons of people and is really fun and successful… He responded to my email, said he would be back in town next week and to call him and left me his number. Is that weird? I don’t know him well at all, we’ve just met a couple of times, seems a bit weird to be calling someone that I hardly know, a man anyway?? He’s married and was being really flirtatious with me at the New Year’s Eve party last year right in front of my ex. But I chalked it up to the rivalry between he and my ex and didm”t take it seriously at all. Anyway, he’s really fun and i bet he’s got a lot of fun friends. I’m getting excited about the possibilities this might open up! I just don’t want him to think that there’s a possibility between he and I!

  140.  #140Liquid Light on January 7, 2014 at 10:09 pm

    Indigo, your posts sound so exciting!! I LOVE IT!!!

  141.  #141Starbright on January 7, 2014 at 10:28 pm


    Sounds like you need to love yourself so much that you aren’t bothered by his exchanges with his x

    Or, you need to love yourself so much that you realize this situation feels bad and walk away…

    Hugs to you!!!

  142.  #142Kath on January 8, 2014 at 12:52 am

    Thank you- Yes- I need to love me-wearing a big baggy jumper today so that my clothes hug me!- I made a decision last night to stop snooping. I said my speech to him and he listened and said he was sorry that he hadn’t realised I felt that way and that he would try harder. I said he didn’t need to try harder it was me who had to feel better. I promised to stop worrying about the future and to bring myself back into the present and to enjoy what I have. I told him I loved him and that I was sorry for making him think badly of me. I am seeing my Counsellor on friday for the first time in a while- that will be me time, time for me to say anything without worrying how it comes out and working on me to get me back to being the confident wonderful person that I am. Thank you ladies, your inspiration and support is amazing!

  143.  #143Millie on January 8, 2014 at 1:28 am

    So many things I want to say!!!

    Cupcake! haha…your Law and Order/Craigslist post made me laugh! I totally understand your point! But it would feel weird and desperate to me to create such a post for attention….plus those men don’t know me. I would be an empty pussy for lack of a better phrase. Also…you said you felt said in hearing my words that “I feel like saying no” more. What I mean by that is…I say YES a lot. I am very easy going when it come to men because YES! I want to feel, I want to experience, I want to be spontaneous and be in this moment and la la la…but boundaries have always been a challenge for me, and maybe if I say NO, I will give myself time to figure out what those boundaries are. Like…No I will not meet you at said restaurant. No, I am not free tonight, I prefer you ask me in advance. It’s about boundaries more so than openness. I AM VERY OPEN. too open maybe….I’m willing to experience a lot, just that men take advantage of that….men have an agenda..and its not always the same genuine, experience loving, get to know you, one that mine is. They think every time you say YES, that you are saying YES to bed. So….maybe NO should be more in my vocabulary.

    FeminineWoman! What is so striking about your post is how confidence attracts men. I need to work on that. Also, how men circle back, they don’t forget a woman like you. It’s crazy how some will settle for second best. I’m glad you moved away from that man. He sounds like drama.

  144.  #144Millie on January 8, 2014 at 1:39 am

    Sophie and Indigo,

    Thank you for the support with my age. It does feel good to know that as I get older, this will get better, but while I’m young, but I think it’s no excuse…Perhaps part of my confidence issues is that I expect so much more of myself. I expect myself to have the experience and sageness of an older woman, particularly because I am surrounded by older men and women….encountering men my age feels weird actually. They feel young, like boys without chest hair. I’m sure that is my thwarted perception due to my own experiences.

  145.  #145Sophie on January 8, 2014 at 3:12 am

    Hi Millie

    I hear what you’re saying – I guess whatever age I am the thing I am still learning is to recognise and accept ‘that’s just the way it is with me’ regardless or who or what anyone else is – (just like you say I stopped for the most part expecting myself to be like everyone else) For me I guess it was all about getting to know myself better (sometimes through some really difficult situations) because I couldn’t say ‘thats just the way it is with me’ if I didnt know – I needed to know who I actually was rather than who I’d tried to be or was trying to be or wanted to be and learning to love myself throughout and find the people I liked to be around and the things I liked to do and move more and more toward those things and away from things I didn’t…I am still learning definitely – I listened to an astrology reading not so long ago which was about ten years old and I laughed because really I haven’t changed – those ten years have been huge but I listened to myself on the tape and the woman and I hadnt changed that much – some new insights maybe – the biggest being some things about me are just the way they are and I can fight them as much as I like and try to be different but maybe accepting and loving them is a better way to go – I still have a lot of learning to do with this and around men – it seems I’m still working out what my deal-breakers are and learning boundaries and practising speaking my truth (not just to men to everyone) and practising stepping up in my own life to claim more of what I want and be a bit more proactive in its creation

    I guess all our experiences teach us more about ourselves and I laugh at lot of mine now – I went through a stage of dating much younger men which was a mess but funny I guess and then with B I thought he looked really old (just because he wasn’t as you say like a man/boy with no chest hair) ha ha but I suppose all of it has been sifting through working out what I like and don’t like, finding out about myself and every experience gets me a little bit closer to knowing all of that…

  146.  #146Corin on January 8, 2014 at 4:32 am

    Indigo 94
    “The more I look forward to something the harder it is to assert my own boundaries”. Thank you Indigo that EXACTLY encapsulates my problems!

    I can be such a Siren when single and in the first few months of dating someone. Then as soon as they start talking marriage, babies etc it all goes to pot and I knew I end up destroying things but I wasn’t sure why. I think it is this and that it links to the ‘no expectations’ principle.

    I get into the ‘but you promised’ mindset. My ex said that our relationship started to feel transactional and I think it was for exactly this reason. I was unhappy because I felt he owed me to make good on what he said he would do but when he didn’t because I wanted it so much I found it impossible to stand by my boundaries and take care of myself.

    I feel like if only I could heal this, everything would fall into place.

    I was talking to my ex last week and he was telling me about how he got into yoga due to my influence when this was something that he would have been very resistant to even considering. He told me that I used to just tell him that I was going and that the way I was so sure I was doing it myself made him want to come too. I wish there was something in that energy that could translate to marriage and babies with him. I guess in a way I’m doing that now because we aren’t together because of this and that I’m still perusing my dream without him. I just need to remind myself of this and not try to persuade him to change his mind but instead go on my way CDing to find this and if he sees me doing that and feels inspired to want to do it with me, then great.

    I did some yoga from YogaGlo yesterday on Being the Prayer and how I need to feel like I already have what I desire. Hmmm, going to think about how I can feel like I’m already a wife and mother in a loving relationship.

  147.  #147Corin on January 8, 2014 at 4:45 am

    I’m considering something that I would never have dared to do a few years ago.

    I’ve had the fantasy for a few years of sex with more than one person at once/sex with women. I’ve never acted in it but it was a fantasy I shared with my ex.

    Since we broke up I’ve learned about an organisation that runs sex parties on a very discreet and selective basis where only the women can approach the men and single men are not allowed to attend. This feels like a really exciting and safer way to explore my fantasy.

    I approached my ex about the party to ask what he thought and he asked me if I wanted him to go with me. I’m toying with this idea which also feels exciting. What I want to be careful about is not sleeping with get try to ‘get’ something from him and only bring him along if this really is for my enjoyment and I can handle us still not being a committed couple when we walk away afterwards. He is someone I feel very safe and sexually compatible with.

    He says we should do it sooner rather than later but I don’t want to rush, I want to sit with my feelings and do this feeling like a Siren. It feels exciting and really stepping into the unknown.

    Has anyone else here had any similar experiences?

  148.  #148sami on January 8, 2014 at 5:22 am


    what you wrote so totally resonates with my experiences. I have girlfriends who when i was dating my husband, never mentioned it to me and starting writing to him personal messages… he did not respond to them ! They meant nothing to him and he felt flattered but also a bit weird about the incoming , unasked for attention ๐Ÿ˜€

    Just later when we were engaged , I found out. I guess most women on Roriยดs blog should not take the message of other women destroying another womanยดs relationships personally because women under roriยดs training would never initiate contact and start writing personal messages to another man..ANY doesnยดt matter a man with a relationship or not.

    But I have had many many experiences which make me feel sad about this particular dynamic. Yours, as I feel it, is particularly tragic and I know how hard it can feel to act “family” when fundamental trust itself is lacking.

    Unfortunately, till today, i have many many masculine energy girlfriends who throw very jealous vibes to me and taunt at me when my husband is around – David, dont u think u support Sami a bit too much? She could do more work in the house !!! I feel glad when he says- I love to support her ๐Ÿ™‚

    However, I feel so lonely and sad in those moments. I would never ever, in my wildest dreams, bring another woman down and especially not in front of a man!!

    I have tried being honest to them about how such comments, especially in front of my husband make me feel, but it doesnยดt work. I wonder if any of you sirens have any advice for me on this issue?

    Love to you Sophie and all sirens

  149.  #149Shannon on January 8, 2014 at 5:30 am

    sami, that just doesn’t sound like a friend to me. What I hear there is that you’re having romance issues with your friends. You’re putting up with friends that aren’t the quality you deserve, and not loving yourself in your boundaries with them. You’re doing fine with your man, but you’re not loving yourself in another area.

    If you have “friends” who hear your hurt and just don’t give a rat’s behind… they aren’t “friends”, they are something that you’re using to beat yourself up with.

  150.  #150Dominique on January 8, 2014 at 5:34 am

    Sami – If you want to continue these friendships, you may have to accept that this is who they are. Your husband stands up for you and supports you. This is where your focus needs to stay. Not on the negative feeling stuff. The less energy you invest in the bad feeling stuff, the better YOU get to feel, and it may very well defuse if not eliminate the comments.


  151.  #151Shannon on January 8, 2014 at 5:36 am

    Corin, unfortunately I only have a bit of a negative experience with that. I did try that with an ex. The problem was that he loved it sooo much, and I didn’t. And he just wouldn’t let the idea drop once we did it once. It turned into a very ugly thing, where he kept asking me to pick up women for us. It felt really, really awful and it felt like constant pressure to do something that I’d found I didn’t like or enjoy.

    If it were me, I would perhaps try it the first time without the ex, so that if you find it doesn’t feel as good as the fantasy, you won’t find yourself in a situation where he liked it and pressures you constantly to partake again.

    If you like and enjoy it, on the other hand, after that might be a good time to bring him in.

    But that’s me, and certainly, he may never act like that or you (will unquestionably, since we’re HERE and I wasn’t then) be able to assert your boundaries better than I did(n’t).

  152.  #152sami on January 8, 2014 at 5:37 am


    Thanks for engaging with my issue. I really really agree with what u say…My husband and I have even spoken about this issue…And i think u hit the problem “bang on” by saying im having “romance” issues with my girlfriends…

    But how do u react to it when almost everyone around somehow hints to this fact in some way or another? they observe that my husband supports me a lot…and probably these are not the relationships they themselves have… and while i give them my heart felt support to get over a break up etc …it feels really thorny and snappy to hear those kind of words.

    I do not know how to change my entire circle of friends in the city. I have deeper, more respectful relationships with some of my girls but they are not around and physically present to accompany me to a movie or for shopping. And so yes I completely agree with u …that I am settling for less quality… i also feel it very often..

    my husband says..”nobody forces u to spend time with them” but i do need friends. I must admit… i feel a bit restricted in my choices.. I am on the look out for new friends but i guess its a slow process.. Im surrounded by rather feminist thinking, action oriented women and they sort of “dont take me serious” cause im relaxed, easy to spend time with, not talking about the next big mountain i should conquer. the energies are very different and yet i settle cause i do need company.

    It feels so sad to even write this here.

  153.  #153Shannon on January 8, 2014 at 5:45 am

    Maybe it’s time to get a little bit melodramatic. :p

    “Oh! Oh, that felt BAD!” Grab your belly. “I LOVE how supported I feel by (husband’s name)! I really want to feel that supported by my friends, too!”

    Start circular dating your women friends. If they are super masculine energy women, then start seeing this as circular dating, rather than friendships with women. If they want to be men, then deal with them the way you would with any man you were circular dating but never going to sleep with (cause, yeah, they’re women and you’re married :p ).

    Be very in the moment with it, and let yourself cry if it really hurts. Let yourself circular date them… consider them ongoing practice for your marriage.

    “Oh, my stomach feels like it’s going to run away from me! I feel so BAD! I want to feel supported by my friends, too!”

    Telling them later doesn’t work. So tell them in the moment. Let them comfort you and melt on them like you would a man. Cry. Be real, just as if they were a dude instead of a chick.

    If they want to be masculine energy, that’s not your problem. Let them be masculine energy, and stop trying to relate to them woman-to-woman. Relate to them like circular dates. Pretend they’re men, and you’re practicing your boundaries and your tools.

    “I feel so sad! I feel unsupported. I want to feel like my friends support whatever kind of marriage I want to have.”

    CD them. Why not?

  154.  #154sami on January 8, 2014 at 5:55 am

    Wow shannon. That already felt great to read…to be able to say the truth.

    i tried sharing my truth in the moment with a girlfriend and she disappeared:D no replying to my messages nothing. And i feel the moment. Im still looking for a job and I cannot afford to lose all my friends one by one.. I know i should feel thankful that the junk is out by truth telling ..but still…at some level the choice of friends is limited and i feel afraid that this will happen with the others too..but i definitely want to experiment with this- like CDing men. Wow. I feel excited to CD women friends

    Thanks also DOminique for your advice. It feels good to have your support. I often wonder though, where is the line finally when it breaks for you? like you cannot “tolerate” it anymore. For me I can focus on the good energy, but if the bad energy persists, isnยดt it at least disturbing? Makes you wonder why am I here?

  155.  #155Shannon on January 8, 2014 at 5:56 am

    Oh, and I know this is probably a bad thing to say, but can I just say that it sounds to me less like criticism of him, and more like criticism of YOU. Like you’re not man enough for them… you actually let some dude take care of you, shame on you! Like they’re saying it TOWARDS him, but actually saying it TO you.

    What I would wonder is, how you agree with them. If some part of you didn’t agree on some level, it would just be something strange your friends say to your husband…

    So maybe work on loving the part of you that agrees that you’re not man enough and that you’re “too dependent” (and probably feels unsafe feeling so dependent).

    Your husband just thinks its some weird thing your friends say, so clearly he doesn’t agree with them. He’s quite PROUD that he supports you so well. He’s taking it as a compliment… you’re taking it personally.

    So maybe that’s where your inner work is here. Why isn’t it okay for you to depend on your husband and bask in his support? What is it in you that feels such resistance to being supported by a man (in any way, from money to emotional support)? Can you love that part and stop resisting it?

  156.  #156sami on January 8, 2014 at 6:01 am


    Bang on with the first point. Its actually a taunt to me since they dont “see me” as independent and strong enough . But as we all know, we practice “soft outside and strong inside” and its a matter of perception which they dont possess ๐Ÿ˜€

    But for the second point, i feel completely completely happy and safe to be dependent and taken care of by my man ๐Ÿ˜€ I so totally love it.

    Its when they “advice” him that makes me feel icky. As a roriยดs student, I should already know that men dont listen to that kind of talk, but still for me it feels like they are trying to plant this strange and icky thought into my husbandยดs head..u know what I mean?? And of course this advice is coming from a place of “jealousy” or “non appreciation” of me fundamentally. Which is what feels icky about being stuck in this dynamic.

    Like i would stand next to your man and say…Ah, why do u do so much for Shannon, David?

  157.  #157Shannon on January 8, 2014 at 6:04 am

    sami, I say this gently, because I fear it may sound mean. I’m truly saying it with love and kindness.

    Perhaps the friend pool isn’t so small, perhaps your perspective is small?

    I’m assuming that you’re a younger woman, so please forgive me if I’m wrong. Maybe you could allow yourself to start befriending some older women. Perhaps get outside of “your circle” and meet other kinds of women. I hear “I’m limiting myself to the kinds of friends I want” kind of the same way that most of us say, “I’m limiting myself to the kinds of men I think I want” when CDing.

    I’m 42 years old. I’d happily be friends with a younger woman who wanted to go shopping, have a coffee together, etc. I have elderly lady friends and young lady friends, and friends my own age. Do you? Is the friend pool really so limited, or are you limiting yourself to a certain type and age and “circle” of friends?

    Perhaps it’s time to walk out of your “friend zone” and find some friends you never imagined you’d be friends with. The older woman at the coffee shop. CD her. Sure, she’s older and maybe not your “type” (for friendship). But what if she’s just what you need to feel supported?

    To me, I hear that you have your marriage well in hand, but your relationships with other women are where you’re having the “romantic issue”. For lack of a better way of saying it.

    Please, please forgive me if I overstepped myself here.

    Don’t limit yourself to your circle. That’s my advice. Stop putting yourself in a “friendship” ivory tower.

  158.  #158sami on January 8, 2014 at 6:09 am

    Hey shannon

    Im not perfect. Always work in progress and I feel grateful and thankful for your advice and also that you engage with it. For me it feels like caring ….And yes I am quite young and im mostly surrounded by student parties, single women, women looking for a man etc.

    I do have friends who are older. I get ALONG very very well with older women…more mature, no competition, just sharing and understanding and support. Trouble is they are far….not in my city.

    But you are right…I cannot sit and lament my situation. As dominique said, either I have to accept it the way it is and focus on the good feeling stuff or as you said, go out and make an attempt for myself to widen the pool of friends i have in this city.

    And once again, dont worry about overstepping. I really feel loved when people show concern for me and we can talk with so much honesty and openness. So thanks ๐Ÿ™‚

  159.  #159Shannon on January 8, 2014 at 6:09 am

    Gosh, it sounds so much like what we do with men!!

    “I’m afraid to tell the truth, because I’m afraid I’ll lose him.”

    The “wings” thing might help. Flying up and out and seeing just how HUGE the city you live in actually is. Surely there are FAR more women than those few that you interact with.

    Holding on SO tightly to our men that we’ll put up with any cruelty.

    Holding on SO tightly to your girl friends that you’ll put up with any cruelty.

    We sound so needy when we do this with our men. Does it feel needy when you say that you can’t lose your friends, you need them?

  160.  #160sami on January 8, 2014 at 6:11 am

    Shannon did you read my comment above?

    But thank you for your support really and showing me this. I am REALLY limiting my life at the moment. Im looking for a job, not enough money to go out that often….and I am focusing too much energy on the “nots” rather than the “haves”.

    I feel excited to experiment with new stuff..get new girlfriends…Let me see what I can do about it.

    Love to you. Thank you for giving me this little “shake”. I needed it

  161.  #161Shannon on January 8, 2014 at 6:11 am

    Sami, I feel so relieved! I truly feel bad when I hurt people, and it’s a big fear of mine. Thank you for letting it be okay to speak to you. ๐Ÿ™‚

  162.  #162Shannon on January 8, 2014 at 6:12 am

    No, I hadn’t read it, you posted it while I was agonizing over writing that, lol. So sorry to cross-post when you’d already said it while “my head was turned” so to speak.

  163.  #163sami on January 8, 2014 at 6:15 am

    we can be pen pals if you like ๐Ÿ™‚

  164.  #164Shannon on January 8, 2014 at 6:17 am

    sami, you are really fantastic. You are going to find friends that truly “get you”. CD a bunch of women and find friendships that nurture your soul. You are such a gift to the world, it feels sad to see you limit yourself to those who can’t appreciate your magnificent inner beauty.

    I’m so excited to see where you go in the next few months as you start shifting your paradigm around friendships.

    I feel so excited for you!

  165.  #165Shannon on January 8, 2014 at 6:19 am

    you can find me on facebook, sami, and we can go from there. shannon.phoenix.714


  166.  #166sami on January 8, 2014 at 6:24 am

    yay im already moving ahead as you can see. Love to you Shannon ๐Ÿ™‚

  167.  #167Shannon on January 8, 2014 at 6:27 am

    Maybe it’s silly, but I feel SO stoked for you. My heart just feels really full and I feel so much happiness from this exchange with you. Thanks for being your awesome self this morning.

  168.  #168sami on January 8, 2014 at 6:29 am

    I feel very happy to hear that ๐Ÿ™‚

  169.  #169Femininewoman on January 8, 2014 at 6:46 am

    (((((((((Kath)))))))))))) You sound so much more grounded in your last comment.

    “I said he didnโ€™t need to try harder it was me who had to feel better.” Is the one thing that jumped at me because it read like you telling him what to do and I would move away from doing that if I were you. Mainly because it might have seemed like you were telling him what to do about the ex in the recent past and it might have set up a convincer/resistor dynamic between you two. He knows what he needs to do and if you disqualify/disagree with his opinion he could go back to lowering his efforts because it might confuse him a bit. Use your appointment on Friday as a way to set an intention to get back to you.

  170.  #170Femininewoman on January 8, 2014 at 6:49 am

    Shannon I feel so downhearted reading you questioning yourself about being a lunatic. I encourage you to go to the mirror and tell yourself you are a great woman, a great partner and friend. You are beautiful and wonderful light in the Universe.

    Take that lunatic word out of your vocabulary. These kind of things tend to fly below the radar of our consciousness and are the very beliefs that tear down our self esteem.

  171.  #171Shannon on January 8, 2014 at 6:53 am

    By the way, on my own issues…

    I feel kind of bad, because I was HUGELY amused at my ex last night. Probably in a not-nice way, but I seriously laughed about this.

    I said, “I don’t know” and he completely didn’t seem to question it. I told him several times that “I don’t know” about something.

    I said I didn’t know if there were boxes of some of our daughter’s medical equipment downstairs. I did know, but I wasn’t going to get in the way of him taking care of her. I wasn’t going to “fix” it for him. So I just said, “I don’t know.”

    Then later, he asked if we had butter. I said, again, “I don’t know.”

    I couldn’t help but feel amused that he didn’t seem to question that at all. How could he know me as well as he does, and believe that I didn’t KNOW there were boxes of medical supplies (and how many), or that there was butter (and how much)?

    Like, seriously? LOL.

    It felt good to just let him sort it out for himself, and to watch him puttering around and figuring out her medical supplies and being in control of them. But I was highly amused that he believed I didn’t know something about her medical supplies. :p

  172.  #172Shannon on January 8, 2014 at 6:55 am

    Thank you, FW. I definitely need self-esteem work. Sometimes I feel great self-esteem, but then often it just seems to crash. That was a gentle, kind reminder, and I thank you for it.

  173.  #173Femininewoman on January 8, 2014 at 7:02 am

    “It felt good to just let him sort it out for himself, and to watch him puttering around and figuring out her medical supplies and being in control of them.”

    Men like to be our heros and this might have given him the opportunity to find his internal hero. Maybe if you think of it as having fun with him as opposed to laughing at him per se, it could change your vibe and draw him into the play without expectations or any pressure from your part. When we drop expectations life can really open up for us.

  174.  #174Femininewoman on January 8, 2014 at 7:11 am

    RE 171 – Shannon I see this as a big learning experience also. Maybe you are learning about yourself that you can be controlling and men will just allow you to? You might also be learning that you have the capacity to let go of control. Maybe he is showing you the more you do that the more of the man he can be. You might get to know how much of a factor he wants to be in his daughter’s life. How much he might have been wanting to take care of you both. This experience to me is about experimenting with being a new you. Hug and appreciate yourself for this brave step you took towards a new life and a new you. You never know what you might discover.

  175.  #175Shannon on January 8, 2014 at 8:17 am

    I DEFINITELY feel like I can be controlling. I DEFINITELY step in. If I was a man, I’d be the “stepping up” kind. :p

    I’m struggling mightily with not trying to fix things and trying to be fine with how and when others do things. I’m tremendously capable, and that’s my struggle with this.

    Being capable may be fantastic, but I know for absolute certain that it has gotten in the way of our relationship. Definitely, beyond the tiniest shadow of a doubt has gotten in the way of his relationship with our daughter.

    Struggling to find the balance between pestering him with her needs and letting him be involved, more than anything right now. No matter what happens between him and me, I MUST let him step up for her.

    He’s a fantastic dad when I’m not there. And I’m realizing now that it isn’t because he didn’t want to be bothered–it’s because I just did it. He felt completely comfortable to ignore her because she was always well cared for. He wasn’t needed.

    I unquestionably see this now, extremely clearly. That’s why I made the choice to sit there and say, “I don’t know” instead of, “Yep, there’s plenty downstairs. The next shipment is due in Feb.”

  176.  #176Cupcake on January 8, 2014 at 8:24 am

    Sami #148

    I felt so angry on your behalf when I read about your “friend” who messaged your husband secretly before you were engaged, and your other (?) friend/s who “joke” that you should do more around the house to earn your husband’s support.

    Seriously, I wanted to bitch-slap those girls. You deserve better.

    Tell me please that you backed waa-a-ay out of the friendship with the woman who messaged your husband?

    I have always been blessed with the ability to pick good women friends, and the ability to friend-dump the ones who are frenemies.

    A girl I knew once told me of going out to dinner with a girlfriend, a nice restaurant with a handsome waiter both women flirted with, then to a poetry reading, then on to a dance club. In the ladies room at the dance club, the girl I knew discovered that she had had a big wad of spinach stuck in her front teeth. The spinach had been in the appetizer that they’d had at the restaurant, several hours before.

    She turned to her “friend” at the next sink and said, “Why didn’t you tell me there was spinach in my teeth?”

    Her friend answered something smooth, like “I didn’t want to embarrass you” or something. Another woman they didn’t know, at the next sink, looked hard at my friend in the mirror and said, “SHE is NOT your friend.”

    That’s what I want to say to you about anyone who would say that to your husband about you.

    OMG. I feel so pissed off. I want to move to where you are and be your friend right now! And if anyone ever did a sneaky put down of you in front of me, they would get called out on it IMMEDIATELY.

    Your friend,


  177.  #177Femininewoman on January 8, 2014 at 8:38 am

    Shannon it reminds me of a story Rori told in one of her interviews with a Relationship expert about herself struggling with “my daughter”. I saw the same thing with a friend on FB who sent her daughter to be with her dad over the holidays. She was telling him to send “my” daughter back. It is very subtle but we communicate to men that they are not needed. Men have a deep core need to be the provider, and the protector of their family. I would express appreciation of these actions so you want to catch him when he is doing them and say something. This is about changing how you are being. Never criticize him in these areas. Let him know you know he would not disappoint you in taking care of her. If I were you I would look for an opportunity to let him know that he is right, he is an amazing guy but maybe you are not suited for each other because of how different you are. It might feel like tearing out your guts to do this but he will get the message that you don’t “need” him to live.

  178.  #178Cupcake on January 8, 2014 at 8:44 am

    Dear Sirens-

    I am back in the new city where I live, and it was so cold last night (and no heat in my apartment) that I went to spend the night at my guy friend Kyle’s (in the guest room).

    I’ve mentioned Kyle before. He’s also trying to date and feeling really frustrated about it. We discussed doing a pod-cast, sort of a dating debate show. Because, for example, I said I hate it when men ask me to plan the date, and he said he has mixed feelings about that because he feels so uncertain whether a woman is actually going to come through with meeting up with him and not flake out at the last minute that he just wants to make it easy on her by letting her choose a place she’s comfortable with.

    Anyway, what I wanted to tell you was that when I got to his house, he was chatting on OKCupid with a woman. Then he ended the chat, rolling his eyes a little.

    I said, “What was that all about?”

    He told me that this woman initiated the chat, and she seemed upbeat and funny, and he felt happy about chatting with her.

    Then she told him that she was chatting with him WHILE she was on a date with another man. She said, “It’s a bad date. He’s just to demure. I’m looking to get out of this and go do something with someone fun. What are you up to later tonight?”

    That was when I came in, so he told her, “My friend just came over so I guess you’re stuck with the demure guy! Bye!”

    He said, “That poor guy! I’m thinking he’s sitting there trying to be respectful and considerate, and she’s thinking he’s just a wimp.”

    I said, “Maybe she means he’s super passive? Either way, it’s not very nice to chat you up while she’s on a date with someone else.”

    Can you imagine? What a weird dynamic, for both the woman and her date.

    And then this morning I was thinking about it and realized that so often when I’m on a CD with someone new, I’m really checked out of the situation in my head. Comparing the guy to Lord Voldemort, thinking of all the ways the guy in front of me “should be” different in order to earn my attention and approval.

    I have a bunch of dates set up over the next few days. I’m glad Kyle told me about this situation, because I have made a promise to myself to STAY PRESENT in the dates, even if I feel like checking out in my head.

    My whole problem is that my attention wanders to what ISN’T, rather than focusing on what IS.

    So that’s my goal for the week. Focus on what IS in front of me. Men, opportunities, etc.

    My word, that is scary.

    Thank you all for being there. I’ve learned so much from all of you, especially in the last couple of threads.


  179.  #179Cupcake on January 8, 2014 at 8:48 am

    Oh, and re: Kyle-

    It wouldn’t work for me to date him. He’s thirty and I’m 52. (I confess that to you, although I am vague as heck about it in the real world, because I am blessed with exceptionally good genes and the director of my theater company used to say, “If I can cast you as someone who’s 37, you’re 37.” )

    But I don’t want to go through someone’s thirties with them. Been there, done that. I don’t think I could be in a serious relationship with someone who has never owned a home. How could we talk about double glazing with the same level of appreciation?

    No, it just wouldn’t work.


  180.  #180Aurora on January 8, 2014 at 9:41 am

    Hi dearest Sirens
    It’s been a while since I’ve posted but I have read in from time to time when I needed to. I am so glad you all continue to share.
    My LD and I ended our relationship last year, as he was not ready to move forward and some things about his past were revealed that also made it impossible. I wrote about that last August and that I got back on the horse and on line and met another. There was great chemistry there and I think he helped me get over my LD when I look back over it, but it only lasted 3 months. He was head over heels but became overwhelmed with his work and was not ready to continue in relationship. I let him go and we remain “friendly” in my being understanding of him. I met another man, who behaved poorly on our first date (rushed into a sexual encounter which was totally Ick) and I felt good because I told him so afterwards (kindly) In my messaging to both these guys I said I was “disappointed”

    I was back on the horse again! This time I added a second online dating source to my CDing. I met and was invited for coffee and a drive with a really nice fellow who is local and not LD (yay). We had a wonderful time and he texted for several days after.

    Then I didn’t hear from him yesterday, and maybe not even today….and I could feel myself getting triggered and panicky…wanting to learn forward.

    But I will not! I want to lean back!
    and in doing so I got on this blog to help myself orient….and I found the post from a few back about having a “Disappoint me” sign on our foreheads.

    BING! It registered. I’m doing just that. I’m expecting men to disappoint me yet again! I see it now!

    I want to change this…..I’m trying to come up with a new belief.

    I am pleasantly surprised by men
    “Surprise me”
    ” Blow me away”
    “uplift me”

    Sirens I need more ideas…!
    what are some other ways to turn “disappoint me” around……so I can reprogrammee this?


  181.  #181sami on January 8, 2014 at 10:17 am

    hi aurora

    big hug. dont dont dont initiate contact ! you want to ultimately learn how to be in a relationship with a good man… give him his space…let him return to you and give him a good feeling message then…as for now..please please go dooo something nice for yourself..flatter yourself with a warm bath and then go out with the girls and get busy and get your energy off him…

    its not for you to say / decide / figure out whether he will or will not disappoint you. Its for you to stay on your bridge…take care of yourself while he is away …if not him…then another my dear….remember..YOU are the prize..he is targetting you dear siren. Love, Sami

  182.  #182Corin on January 8, 2014 at 10:19 am

    Hey Aurora,

    Do you tend to date one man at a time and out all your focus on him? I think that leads to expectations which are then disappointed. Alternatively not focussing too much on any one man, CDing lots of then, CDing the world! CDing yourself so you are the focus means you have less time to set up expectations or be disappointed. That is what I’m trying to do anyway as this is totally my pattern….put expectations on one man until he feels the pressure of it and runs away, then bingo, I’m disappointed but really I disappointed myself.

  183.  #183Dominique on January 8, 2014 at 10:21 am

    Shannon – 175 – Awesome revelations. YAY you!!!


  184.  #184Dominique on January 8, 2014 at 10:24 am

    You too Cupcake – 177 – This is what being open and curious is about, being present and excited about the next moment and the next. What wonders will reveal themselves to you.


  185.  #185Dominique on January 8, 2014 at 10:27 am

    Aurora – When you are able to remain in openness and curiosity, accepting if not anticipatory about each moment, there is no way you will feel disappointed. Every person has something to offer, something to like and enjoy. He may not be your perfect match, but he can be someone to spend some fun time with.


  186.  #186Aurora on January 8, 2014 at 11:56 am

    Thank you Sami, Corin and Dominique
    yes I tend to think I’m suppose to focus on one man romantically……old programming for sure……I have been trying to CD I have a fellow who asks me for coffee every two weeks or so, and it’s clear we will be friends (I’ve known him a long time) and we have great discussions, but I include him as a CD anyway….and LD still texts… friendly ways……I really have to sink into the idea that a woman (me) is the prize…..that he can step up, that men will step up and I don’t have to rescue them….that I don’t have to anticipate anything (I know I do that so I don’t feel like I”m setting myself up to get hurt)

    Open, soft, curious…. moving forward not stagnating and trying to analyze everything……oh so good to hear, thank you. Self care, focus on me…..I so have to unlearn and detach from guilt around those things!

    this has been helpful thank you!

  187.  #187CurvySiren10 on January 8, 2014 at 12:15 pm

    Sirens, can someone remind me how to search for a particular blog post here? I’m looking for one that Rori wrote about being “addicted” to a man and how it’s like a drug. I’d appreciate your help! Thank you!

  188.  #188Amber on January 8, 2014 at 12:40 pm

    I’m so thankful for the support of you wonderful Sirens. I am floating, just floating, and (T) is initiating contact, then flying away, then floating back. I’m desperately -I know, bad word, but I FEEL desperately afraid that these crumbs are all I will ever get from him

    I feel afraid
    I feel afraid that I will never find a commitment minded partner who loves me unconditionally
    I feel lonely
    I never feel lonely when I’m with (T)
    I feel icky when he tells me he loves me but he is afraid to trust
    I feel guilty that his truth makes me feel icky
    I love my guilt
    I love my emotional responses

    He came to my house last night. I can SEE that the crumbs are getting bigger. They are turning into real morsels of nutritious food. Last night he:
    1) Contacted me first (text-i love texting, )- i have been leaning way back
    2) Asked me to call him when I said I couldn’t text and drive
    3) Asked to come to me. No suggestion that I drive to him
    4) Asked if i would like anything and brought my favorite wine
    5) Gave me a backrub (not new behavior for him but I was proud of myself for accepting it and not feeling for a moment that I NEEDED to return the favor. Accepting arrows from men is getting easier)
    6) Told me a hundred times he loves me. This is VERY new behavior. Before Rori I NEEDED to hear those words, and he couldn’t give them to me. Now that I don’t need them and I’m concentrating on ME and HIS ACTIONS the words just flow out like he can’t help it.

    I’m rambling, I know. If anyone has feedback on these ‘improvements’ he’s making and whether they seem genuine, i would love it. His pattern is to be with me for some wonderful “moments,” then run away to process them. The retreat makes me feel anxious and needy
    I love and embrace my anxiety and neediness.
    I love ALL of myself
    I feel calmer

    thanks, Sirens

  189.  #189Shannon on January 8, 2014 at 12:54 pm

    curvysiren, the only way I know to do it is with google

    Put in something like “addicted to a man” and then site(colon)blog(dot)havetherelationshipyouwant(dot)com

    Clearly, : and . to replace the (colon) (dot)

    Or simply ‘addicted’:

    addicted site blog havetherelationshipyouwant com

  190.  #190Helena Hart on January 8, 2014 at 12:58 pm

    Amber – I can really relate to this: “His pattern is to be with me for some wonderful โ€œmoments,โ€ then run away to process them. The retreat makes me feel anxious and needy…”

    I have a lot of experience with men who do this. I’ve found that it’s what we do in the moments when he’s withdrawing that either cause him to come back and feel more attracted to us, or withdraw even more. Rori’s image of the “rubberband man” and “being his anchor” are really helpful. Are you dating other men as well?

    I LOVE how you’re embracing and loving all your feelings, that’s fantastic!!!

    Love, Helena

  191.  #191Turquoise on January 8, 2014 at 1:06 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    I hope everyone had great holidays! I”m going to read the post and catch up! Missed you ladies!!! ๐Ÿ™‚

  192.  #192Femininewoman on January 8, 2014 at 1:13 pm

    We were all raised to not RECOGNIZE bad treatment. To make excuses for it. To find underlying, psychological reasons for it. To blame OURSELVES for it โ€“ as though we provoked it (like so much you can read about what people think about Rhianna and Chris Brown โ€“ that she somehow is responsible for what happened to her by โ€œprovokingโ€ him).

    As a crisis counselor helping rape survivors โ€“ it was just heartbreaking to see (and experience) the self-blame and self-torture women whoโ€™d been abused and been at the receiving end of violence took on themselves (ourselves).

  193.  #193Femininewoman on January 8, 2014 at 1:16 pm

    know this is going to be very hard for you, but you can do it. The reason why itโ€™s so difficult is because when weโ€™re involved with a man like this, he becomes an addiction. So you have to treat him like any other drug โ€“ stay away from him. Yes, youโ€™ll feel miserable at first. But you must do everything you can to stay focused on yourself, your friends, and your life.

  194.  #194Amber on January 8, 2014 at 1:26 pm

    Than you for responding, it feels so good to be acknowledged!

    Yes, I am CDing the world, dating myself the most and casually seeing two other men. This seems to make (T) withdraw, saying “I don’t want to come between you and your boyfriend.” Explaining that I do not have a boyfriend doesn’t seem to resonate. OOPS! maybe my first mistake was trying to ‘explain?’

    I am having trouble with “treat them all equally,” in this situation. I am emotionally invested (15 months) in (T) and we are sexually intimate. The other two men are truly casual dates, and they feel like practice. How do I go about treating them all equally?

    Is there a specific program/chapter which addresses specifically the ‘rubber band man?’ I have the complete collection and the e-book.

    Thanks again!

  195.  #195Amber on January 8, 2014 at 1:28 pm

    was this for me?

  196.  #196Liquid Light on January 8, 2014 at 1:45 pm

    Sami et al, I can so relate to this thread re. female “friendships”. If someone is needy and desperate with a big huge hole that can never be filled, men or women, it doesn’t matter what you do, it will never change. Its something fundamental that they believe about themselves and no matter how much you praise, appreciate, try to build them up, it doesn’t matter. This is the reason behind the breakup in my last relationship, and this is the reason why I’m withdrawing from a female friendship now. I’ve tried everything with her to make her feel more secure around me but it doesn’t work. The cattiness and passive/aggressive undermining continue. I’m sick of it and don’t want to put my energy there anymore. Instead, I’d rather put my energy towards positive, supportive friendships so that’s what I’ve decided to do. Feels good!

  197.  #197Helena Hart on January 8, 2014 at 1:50 pm

    Amber – 193 – I know the “rubberband man” is in one of Rori’s newsletters. When a man withdraws it often stirs something up in us, and makes us want to lean forward to get the affection we’re looking for – or “talk it out” to get answers that will make us feel better. Often times, these are our natural reactions to feeling “off-balance” or insecure with a man. You want to catch yourself if you’re leaning forward to try to “get” more attention or affection (this will push him even further away) – check in with your body, and lean back.

    Right, we all feel the need to EXPLAIN – but you want to stay away from that. I know how hard it is to treat them all equally – “Targeting Mr. Right” will help you with that. For example, you don’t want to hold space open in your schedule for T if he hasn’t asked you out for the weekend yet, etc.

    Love, Helena

  198.  #198Lisa on January 8, 2014 at 2:01 pm

    WOW ladies I can’t keep up…. so much going on with everyone…

    I just napped b/c I need to not be tired and my gift to me this year is to feel rested… no matter what is going on…

    OK “D” is coming down to see me…. booked his hotel… is saying he LOVE… so far ( actions not included in this) he seems wonderful… someone told me I’d find him boring… well so far he makes me laugh so hard… and we have lots in common… but boring might be what I need… as sometimes …. it’s just a change of mindset about our choice in men

    Ok used my feeling messages to “MR” as he texted me again.. he called right away… nice…

    so “G’ ask me out to lunch, I haven’t replied…

    I met two men last night… one might be a c’ding thing…

    I’m so into me… and my life… and yet things here are a mess b/c I’m focusing on me… that housework and stuff are kind of behind…. but I guess that mean’s I’m not over functioning… right?

    I think so many people are used to me over-doing, over functioning and being super woman, that me taking time to rest and take care of me… is messing with their world…

    So I’m apparently worth an all night drive to keep a date with a man i’ve been talking to on the phone for 2 weeks… and so this is blowing my old belief that I’m not worth the effort, completely out of my radar… I’m worth an all night drive to keep a date…I’m worth the expensive restaurant and I’m worth a phone call in stead of a text…

    working on the whole idea of not giving men a soft place to land…. i realize that might have been my issue with them… and I’m curious how not to do that…. hummm


  199.  #199siren song on January 8, 2014 at 2:03 pm

    hey sirens,

    I’ve been dating a man for 8 months. we’ve known each other for 7 years and he is a good man. he is super-attentive and I know he loves me. he’s very masculine and I have been generally pretty happy with him.

    I feel strange, though, because I found out this weekend that he’d been romantically interested in a close friend of mine before we were dating and that there had been some sort of physical intimacy with her. I don’t know any more of the details (I don’t want to), but I feel weird about this. we hang out with her quite a bit and he has never mentioned anything about it to me (neither has she), so I thought i’d tell him I felt odd. when I raised it with him he was defensive and kind of mean.

    I am judging myself for feeling less than ok about it. I know it’s not something that’s happening now, but I still feel off balance about it. I am telling myself I should be cool about it, but that’s not how I feel right now.

  200.  #200Cris on January 8, 2014 at 2:18 pm

    FW 191, sorry but I would appreciate not to read generalizations as “ALL of us have been raised to not recognize bad treatment… to blame on ourselves for that”. Not in my case at least. Thanks!

  201.  #201Olivia on January 8, 2014 at 2:33 pm

    Ladies -HELP!
    Going to get a drink with a guy after work who I am not interested in -we went on same dates like 2 years ago and he kissed me –but I’m just not attracted.
    And besides the point I am in a 1.5 year relationship!
    It’s possible this guy also is in a relationship… there is a girl he apperas very cozy with in a number of pictures.
    The reason I want to meet up with him is professional -he’s a good guy to have in my network and as a friend.

    Any ideas on whether I should bring it up right away –like, “oh are you living with your girlfriend these days?” or “Oh well so..this is kind of making me feel awkward but since we did kiss one time I just want to mention that I have a bf now?”
    It feels weird and dishonest not to tell him -and what if he tries something on me!
    He just got a little flirty on gchat just now as we arranged the time to meet.
    He MUST know I have a bf from facebook -it’s pretty obvious.

  202.  #202Olivia on January 8, 2014 at 2:34 pm

    (I meant to say he looks very cozy with a girl in a number of facebook pictures if that wasn’t evident…)

  203.  #203Shannon on January 8, 2014 at 2:36 pm

    Maybe just say it.

    “It really feels great to get together professionally and as friends!” Then if he does or says anything flirty, in that moment say, “I feel uncomfortable. I feel such love for the man that I’m in a relationship with that I just don’t feel right flirting with other men.”

  204.  #204Liquid Light on January 8, 2014 at 2:41 pm

    Olivia, in my opinion, to him its definitely a date. Just keep in mind, if you say anything about not being interested in him as more than a friend etc.,it will shut down the friendship with him. I wouldn’t say anything. You don’t owe him anything. If he makes a move, then brush it off but I would be prepared for that and not give him the opportunity e.g., don’t be alone with him, always be in a public place. Just my 2 cents.

  205.  #205Femininewoman on January 8, 2014 at 2:45 pm

    191, 192 were meant for Curvy Siren. Not sure if that was what you were looking for.

    Cris – this is a public forum. Rori writes what she chooses to write because it is her forum. If that is her experience what she wrote it is her experience. I choose to respect that. I also believe we all have the same choices – to read or not to read.

  206.  #206Tereana on January 8, 2014 at 2:46 pm

    Olivia – I would probably just meet up with him and keep the vibe professional. I wouldn’t mention the past at all, since he certainly remembers, and it would just bring it up, almost like a suggestion. A better route might be, like you said, ask him if he has a girlfriend and then also just casually mention how happy you are with your boyfriend/man you are dating. That should be enough to give him the message : )

    If it’s not, and he gets too close for comfort, you can just state that this is a professional connection with him. And no harm in clarifying beforehand, either. But if that’s already the premise, then you don’t need to use a giant hammer…

  207.  #207Tereana on January 8, 2014 at 2:47 pm

    Also I agree with LL – totally

  208.  #208Femininewoman on January 8, 2014 at 2:50 pm

    191 & 192 were meant for Curvy Siren. Not sure if it is what you are looking for.

    Cirs – Rori’s experience is her experience. I respect that. This is her blog and she writes what from her experience and expresses herself the way she chooses. I consider that I have a choice as well – to read or not to read. Anything I don’t like reading I don’t. As far as I am concerned this is a public forum over which I have not control about who writes what.

  209.  #209Femininewoman on January 8, 2014 at 2:51 pm


  210.  #210Femininewoman on January 8, 2014 at 2:51 pm

    strange my posts are disappearing

    191 and 192 were for Curvy Siren

  211.  #211Femininewoman on January 8, 2014 at 2:52 pm

    Cris – Rori writes what she writes from her experience, it is her blog.

    I choose to read or not to read. I have no control here.

  212.  #212Olivia on January 8, 2014 at 2:57 pm

    thanks! i’ll let you all know how it goes…!

  213.  #213Tereana on January 8, 2014 at 3:03 pm

    Ladies, I did some pretty neat, unplanned-for “processing” today.

    I was thinking again about what having a “boyfriend” means, and that led me to – why do I want one? I realized it’s not the “boyfriend” itself that I want, or even a particular person. [the BF here is a “thing” as in the relationship itself.]

    What I really want are what I perceive as the honors and social status that come from being in a relationship. And maybe that sounds awful and self-centered, but I’m really just observing that this has always been the case. It was never really a thing that I considered. People really do give more honor and more respect to adults in relationships. This is just true. Because, even if everyone is lovable to the core, having someone who recognizes thus publicly is like a stamp of approval – “oh yes, this person is lovable.” Even if they are cranky and rude. When you are single, the unspoken assumption – and sometimes we take this on – is, “what is wrong with this person that no one says they love them romantically?” I’m not saying it’s right. I’m just saying that it happens to people, unintentionally.

    And finally, I want the FEELINGS that go with relationship. I want the FEELING of being LOVED and ADORED and TRUSTED. I want the feeling of being deeply committed to by another and to that offer person, mutually and without question.

    The problem, I guess, is I’m looking for that AS my stamp of approval. I am looking to get that honor, that recognition, that love feeling outside of myself.

    I know that’s not where it is. I’m just in the “default wanting.” I guess. A kind of a “I’ll have what she’s having” type thing, without taking time to consider – is this really what I want? Is this really what’s right for me? And if it is, what flavor am I wanting?

    The universe takes specific orders. Like getting what you want at Starbucks, the universe is there to serve, but it can’t help you if you give a confusing order…

    Anyway, that’s my little thought process for the day. If it speaks to you, enjoy. I am not having an answer to my send-question at this point, it was mainly interesting to just see it suddenly from an all new perspective, and then also to question my own motivations – what am I really after here? What is it that I really want?

    And coming up with feelings, that feels like a good start…

  214.  #214Olivia on January 8, 2014 at 3:08 pm

    @Tereana -preach. I have totally felt this way.

  215.  #215Liquid Light on January 8, 2014 at 3:11 pm

    Olivia, another idea, don’t drink too much. This may not be a problem for you at all but since you said you were going out for drinks, I thought I’d mention it. I just know that when I drink, sometimes my boundaries start to blur…hahahaha!!! pun intended! ๐Ÿ™‚

    Not that you would cross the line with him but that your vibe might shift so that he thinks he can cross the line with you…just a thought.

  216.  #216Liquid Light on January 8, 2014 at 3:17 pm

    Siren song, I dunno, maybe just try to let it go. It seems like it was in the past and dredging it up with him or her just seems pointless and is causing you misery. If there is still something there, and they are still involved or that they become involved, then that’s something to be concerned about. But that doesn’t seem to be the case. Just my 2 cents.

  217.  #217Rene on January 8, 2014 at 3:20 pm

    This is my first time on here and I am in need of your thoughts on something I am dealing with. I have read most of what you have been saying and thought y’all would be honest. So I am in a relationship with this guy. We have been together for 3 years and live together. We both have 2 kids from prior relationships. In July he came to me with a confession that he couldn’t keep in any longer. He had cheated on me with his ex (mother of his children). Not just once, but a few times over the course of about a year. I forgave him and we moved on with our relationship. Now since they do have kids together, they do still have to talk and see each other. With our lovely modern technology, they text each other waaaayyyy too much for my liking. I can’t get him to understand why this upsets me. More importantly, he has issues with thinking that he isn’t giving his kids what he had by having the “family” together. He thinks he owes them what he had. I explained to him (coming from a marriage that I stayed in for my kids) that If he doesn’t love his ex it will not work. They will fight as they did before leaving him miserable and the kids will suffer from it. He comes back with, “who says it will be the same, maybe I could learn to love her”!! Now this was all around the holidays and he wanted to be there with them and see their faces when they got their presents. Since they can’t seem to grasp what a split family is they both shared the expense of “santa” gifts. I am understanding and accepted his going over there to see. I do trust him, or I think I do. He says that he would never put himself in that situation again. It was way to complicated and he couldn’t deal with himself, which is why he told me the truth. Now my problem here is that he told me around the holidays that he was having thoughts about going back to his ex to be a “family”. I told him if that’s what he wanted to go (he moved in with me when we decided to live together). He hasn’t moved out and hasn’t really said anything else about it. Now me, being a woman, I can’t let this go! I told him that we could work on our relationship if he decides to stay and I had to work on my insecurities between him and his ex, but I needed his help. I didn’t have them until they decided to screw each other after all. He isn’t really helping. They still text each other way too much. I ask him how he would like it if the situation was reversed. He don’t answer me. Now she hasn’t had a boyfriend since they split up. Like she is just waiting for the day he leaves me and goes back to her. I’m at a loss and need some advise.

  218.  #218Liquid Light on January 8, 2014 at 3:26 pm

    I feel a little bit like I’m playing with fire.

  219.  #219Shannon on January 8, 2014 at 3:27 pm

    siren song, it doesn’t feel good to me to focus on what happened in the past. When I do that, I fill up with mistrust and resentment.

    Perhaps that’s not something you’ll fall into, but it’s certainly a big trap for me.

    I wonder if it’s your thoughts around it that are feeling bad to you, rather than that something happened before you were ever in a relationship with him.

    What if he met someone you had a physical engagement with before you two got together and held it against you? What is he supposed to do? He can’t undo it and make it not have happened back then.

    What’s done is done. Does he treat you with love? Then let that be enough. Dwelling on something that happened in the past that can’t be changed is never helpful or worthwhile. It’s you that it will hurt. You’ll start grabbing onto him and clinging to him every time she’s around, perhaps… then you’ll fulfill your own prophecy of him leaving you “because of her” (only it will be because of your feelings).

    Perhaps just a simple, “I feel jealous and I don’t like feeling this way” and let him figure out how to “fix” it. Cause men are “fixers” and they want to fix our feelings.

  220.  #220Dominique on January 8, 2014 at 4:08 pm

    Amber – 187 – This is AWESOME!!! You are awesome.


  221.  #221Dominique on January 8, 2014 at 4:15 pm

    Amber – 193 – If you’re exclusive, then treating all equally is not possible. It seems to me that you’re cding to get your all over him focus back on you. And this is great. When you are able to release expectations, it all comes to you and then some, maybe better than what your expectations were in the first place.

    This may help.


  222.  #222Dominique on January 8, 2014 at 4:15 pm

  223.  #223Dominique on January 8, 2014 at 4:19 pm

    siren song – 198 – I too would feel weird about this kind of situation. My question to you would be – can you feel okay with this? Can you learn to accept that this happened in the past, and it’s not your present even though she’s still around?

    Him not sharing this with you would be at least a pink flag to me, i.e secretiveness though this is not necessarily a negative. He may be trying to protect you from pain.

    Would you consider a heart-to-heart around this?


  224.  #224Dominique on January 8, 2014 at 4:23 pm

    Olivia – 200 – Be upfront with him though not necessarily about your relationship. Tell him you wanted to meet for whatever the professional reason is. And go from there.


  225.  #225Amber on January 8, 2014 at 4:40 pm

    Thank you. Having a safe place to riff (The word ‘riff’ FEELS so much better, and more productive than ‘vent’) is truly changing my life. Having others notice without judgement is so freeing.

    I had an AHA moment that I want to share

    If i’m over-invested in a particular man, the answer is NOT to invest in a different man (or several different men- my old pattern) The answer is to invest COMPLETELY in myself!

  226.  #226Dominique on January 8, 2014 at 5:06 pm

    Amber – ๐Ÿ™‚

    As a note to everyone, my site is down for unknown reasons. Hopefully it will be back very soon. I wrote to my webmaster to see what’s up. Thank you for your patience.


  227.  #227Kyla on January 8, 2014 at 6:11 pm

    I would love some advice if anyone has any.

    A man is trying to arrange a date with me for Saturday, he wants to bring me to an exhibit downtown that I’d mentioned I wanted to see a few weeks ago and then take me out for dinner. He said he wants to spoil me (that felt awesome to hear) and we need to find a way to get me there as he doesn’t have a car (he lives downtown and doesn’t need a car and I live 30 mins outside of the city). I would feel happy to drive myself or get the bus to meet him but I don’t want to be getting all masculine energy making the plans or suggesting so I’m stumped on how to respond. I really want to go to the exhibit and I want to let him take me out and I love going out downtown but I’ve been so good at getting men to pick me from my home that I’m not sure what to say/do.

  228.  #228Shannon on January 8, 2014 at 6:20 pm

    How do you FEEL about it, Kyla? Does it FEEL okay in this case to allow your boundary to flex?

    If it does, perhaps all you need to say is that, “I would feel okay meeting you at a bus stop/ at X bus stop, but I would not feel comfortable driving to [the exhibit], what do you think?”

    Or even just meeting at X place, and he can make the plans of whether to take the bus or the subway or whatnot from there.

    Personally, I wouldn’t feel “leaning forward” doing that. I’m not saying, “Okay, then let’s meet at the bus stop, and you can pay the rest of the way there. I hate driving in downtown, so don’t ask me to.”

    It kind of keeps the “you need to make the plans” boundary, while allowing for the fact that there’s a REASON he doesn’t have a car.

    Then again, I’m super new to all of this, so perhaps you should stand your ground and expect him to rent a car or something. I would feel fine being somewhat accommodating. It feels responsive to me in this case, not reaching. Yet again, it’s not my relationship, and thus my feelings are pretty meaningless to the whole thing… it’s about how YOU feel.

  229.  #229Kyla on January 8, 2014 at 6:29 pm

    Oh thank you Shannon for such a quick response! Him not having a car doesn’t bother me, most people living downtown don’t and also he getting one soon anyway as he’s moving, and I really feel ok to make my own way and meeting him at the central station or something but couldn’t think how to word it lol I’m really overthinking this as he asked me more than 2 hours ago and the way you worded that sounded great. Thank you!!

  230.  #230Liquid Light on January 8, 2014 at 7:08 pm

    Kyla, that sounds like a really fun date!!! ๐Ÿ™‚

  231.  #231CurvySiren10 on January 8, 2014 at 9:10 pm

    Thank you Shannon and Femininewoman!

  232.  #232Amber on January 8, 2014 at 9:19 pm

    I’m so excited. I think my brain is starting to ‘get’ it. I love texts throughout the day, and I want more. So i started thinking… how to say this with APPRECIATION for what he’s already attempting?
    Old me: I want more communication. Please text me more often.
    New: This open communication feels so great! Every text brightens my day a little. Thank you.

    *does a little dance*
    yay me!

  233.  #233dolcebambina on January 8, 2014 at 10:27 pm

    Hi Lovely sirens! It has been many months since I have visited the blog here. I purchased the whole shebang (Rori’s materials) several months ago. Have been very busy for the year having gone back to school (while running a business) and just graduated last month. Yay me!! I am working on changing businesses…woohoo! AND a little scary really at a time in my life I would love to be a little more grounded, but only in a few small ways.

    I have been circular dating for many years. A recovering commitment phoebe…only in conventional terms, such as marriage. Biggest fear….BOREDOM, as well as feeling TOO settled. I want a deeply satisfying relationship with one great match for me (man) but maybe just living together and then we’ll see. I am 43, turning 44 in Feb. Completely unapologetic to those who pity me for never being married and having a family, which appears Ironic to many, because I used to teach in the schools and the business I now own is a Spanish Immersion Preschool. :-/ ๐Ÿ˜‰

    Today I am feeling very frustrated because all 4 of the men I have in rotation I am having issues with. The 4th of them this issue came to light several weeks ago and he has been in rotation the longest. Well, the three have contacted me within the same 6 days or so, voicing frustration that they don’t feel I really like them and they feel they are doing all of the work, as I am leaning back (my usual manner anyway, takes A LOT to get me super interested) and they are frustrated that I am not reaching out to them or initiating a little. ONLY 3 or 4 dates in and they are acting and talking indirectly, like they would like to see me in love or something. SERIOUSLY? I need time to get to know them. 2 of them have actually asked me if I felt LOVE for them by date number two WT…
    These are not Betas at all. Full Alphas and they are acting as though they are afraid of getting hurt by me, is the overall impression I get. Maybe Im wrong about that!! I am not excited about them truthfully, but they have been doing the kinds of things that I like in several ways minus the current issue that I am sharing with all of you. Here I am just chilling, not initiating even a little and it gets me such complaints, disappointment, expressed frustration, apparent insecurities and even seeming hurt from them. What’s a girl to do then??

    Ok, so, this has been going on for about 5 years now and with so many that I date. It is ok if they are in the friends with benefits category with me right away, anything is ok then, because I just move on, but for dating past a few dates. I truthfully just feel pressured so often, turn off! Big time! ARRRRGG!

    What is bothering me most right now is, the number 4 that I really like a lot (the only one I have been sexing, except for a guy who is friends with bennies for the last 2 years and it continues when needed and wanted ๐Ÿ˜‰ we will call him N, has expressed frustration with me over this same issue about 5 weeks ago, with a 1:10 am (not normal contact time at all) saying “Thanks for reaching out! I just can’t do this with you!!!” For several days he acted agitated and hurt and self protective. WTH. We had been dating a month at that point and began sleeping with one another not long before. It felt great and I wanted to and don’t regret it, but it made us BOTH more vulnerable and I am almost always impervious to that, until a strong emotional connection has been made first which rarely happens and at the very least takes a lot of time. Well it had been happening quickly for us both.. We are very much alike and still feeling curious about finding out whether that is a good thing or not. Backing up even further to Just two weeks in, something similar… I went to Mexico and he acted as though we were already in a serious relationship and was hurt that I didn’t talk with him more about it than I did and felt it was strange that I didn’t discuss it with him more first and that I left so quickly, when I contacted him the first day to tell him I was there and texted him while there and he acted so strange. I really feel that he has been afraid of getting hurt and way too early on. well, surprise to me, I have developed feelings for him and they have just been catching up with me. I had been acting pretty aloof until about 2 weeks ago and now as I’m looking back due to his behavior the last 3 weeks, i’m feeling disappointment and frustration and confusion, as he has been backing off and not asking me for my time and blew off a call for help from me and flaked on a date a few weeks ago. I don’t like feeling those over some man!!! I want to feel great. I am missing him now and he has not asked me for any of my time in two weeks. He tried to last Saturday, but failed when he asked me to call him back and said we would play getting together by ear and he asked me to call him later (the only time I call him)??? I never asked for time, nor hinted at it. I didn’t like that assumption that I would just be avail. so I called him back too late and 5 1/2 hours later. We talked, he said he would call me back later that night or next day (Sun.) I haven’t even gotten a text message since Sat. Not normal.
    He is behaving badly in the last almost month. I am unsure as how to deal with him. I feel like he is testing me. Maybe even playing with me for his protection. Still texting me talking about getting together, but then doesn’t make it happen now. A large part of me wants to say to him that I think he’s a great guy and that I have had fun with him, but that I’m wanting more ( a boyfriend is all I can handle right now) but that I’m not getting what I want and I would like a boyfriend. Then… part of me wants to just play it super cool and see if he steps up and works through his interesting insecurities, but then how is he to do that (both of us really) while disconnected and not spending time?? I am unsure of where to go from here he is acting toxic, But I am fairly positive, as much as I can be after such a short time knowing him, that he is NOT indeed a toxic man.

    I will not pine!!! I will not chase him!!! I have not, I never do. I know I need to be a better communicator…have been working the tools. It’s what do I do now? I rarely find myself liking a guy so much. Once every so many years and it’s funny, he said the exact same thing to me early on and told me of how I impressed him overall. He knows what to do and how to behave, he has eloquently spoken of such to me, also early on. I know he is attracted. It must have something to do with me?? I really respect him and like him. Dislike the behavior! It has only been 2 1/2 months, not long at all! Help Please!! Anyone, Rori???

    Ps. Did I mention that I am used to dating, not just screwing (well most of the time HA!) musclebound or at least very athletic men. Pro players, athletes, interesting types, fun types, etc. super alpha and enjoying the hell out of it. I try on others as well, but I don’t like clingy and love my independence. He has not been clingy and likes his independence as well. He doesn’t fit what I would normally want to spend a lot of time with. I am very active, he would like to be encouraged more in that area. I love sex and it has not been great between us, he gets way to into it too excited too quickly and we were just beginning to address ways of creatively working through that, ๐Ÿ™‚ arrrrggg!….and I am used to that being great and it has always been an important factor for me. He is not physically attractive to me like usual, but I am physically attracted and find the overall package handsome in an unusual way for me to be attracted. I think he is all masculine and yet very sweet with me, asking me how I feel all the time. I miss that.. I want more. He is not my normal type, yet feels like home and comfortable to me, which I am just realizing now actually as I write this and is so much my equal and is so similar in many ways to me. Maybe he is not for me, but I am still so curious to know more and he has no idea of this really, as he has backed off and is definitely not earning my heartfelt confessions at this time. What do I say when he contacts me again?…which I am confident he will!!…and we have not resolved to anything.

    Thank you to any beautiful siren who took the time to read this long-ass fricken novel LOL! ๐Ÿ˜‰

    Blessings to all! Thank you in advance for any offers of encouragement, support, and I say this while feeling hesitant…advise…
    blessings and hugs!!!

  234.  #234dolcebambina on January 8, 2014 at 11:13 pm

    One more thing…
    In reflection, I have been a little hard on him for not behaving well and although I have been trying to soften my words in asking for what I want, I am so not practiced with any man that I have stopped to like much or have even considered for a possible relationship long term. Practice in this area is new to me. It is difficult for me, as I am so aware of possibly being treated badly. Self protective, a teacher, a business, owner, never married, single so many years, very independent. SOFTENING so much in my young midlife ๐Ÿ˜‰

    Big area for me then, being sweeter and softer in my words when faced with things NEGATIVE, as I grew up in a very loud, passionate and explosive European immigrant family…both awesome and sucky!! HA! My approach is sickeningly super rational, super cool and calm, sometimes intellectually cutting :-/ ahhhhh….and very much countering to what I grew up with, in verbal expression, but with all of the seething passion still underlying when expressing the negative uncomfortable feelings. Expressing vibrantly and openly the good stuff with passion…EASY!

    In every other way, I am very feminine. In my dress, likes/tastes, super passionate, super playful, super eager, forgiving like a child, full of extreme compassion, very nurturing to those I am blessed to love! Still the same issue, but family and friends…it’s different somehow.

    Even if I bother myself with the time to script and write it out ahead of time. Wow…I was so much more blunt before that! I have such a strong need to protect me that I am trying to shake, realizing there is the difference to “taking care of me.”
    Then, just expressing.

    I don’t want N or any man now in my life to feel I am wronging them, but I still need to stand up for me. Will I ever do this particular communication with ease? So many years doing it my way and then changing the belief that relationships and men get boring and are interchangeable anyway…. Part of me feels it takes too much effort and energy that I could apply elsewhere!! ahhhhhhh…….

    ok, TOTAL rant.

  235.  #235dolcebambina on January 8, 2014 at 11:42 pm

    Is it actually possible for me to be in a loving, deeply connected relationship with ONE man and hang onto my independence that I love so fiercely?

    I think I have believed it to be impossible.

    I want them until I feel smothered, which happens so quickly and easily! Yet, I possibly want a commitment kind companionship, especially more now.

    I have always wanted children, just not with a man in something that could potentially make me feel smothered, trapped. I felt having kids with a man could possibly trap me.
    Divorce has never been a possibility to me, because when it comes to family I am fiercely loyal. Marriage is supposed to be all about being family to the man I would marry. Yet here I am, never married. hmmmmm

    I love me in all of my complexities!! No wonder I crave the simpler of men. I can rest in their simplicity for a while, even if it is a short while! I love men that are uncomplicated!!! They help to remind me of specific some balance that I crave!


  236.  #236Millie on January 9, 2014 at 12:05 am


    I totally hear what you are saying to me..
    Instead of being enthralled with how other perceive me…I need to be enthralled with getting to know myself better. What seems to be troubling me is that..I feel confident around certain people, and then others can make me feel so small. I begin to question my confidence and how that person sees me becomes almost my reality. I begin to not know who I really am then….What I believe and feel is that I AM confident in many areas of my life! But when I encounter someone who I view to be better than me…or more confident, then I shrink a bit, and I feel it is hard to “redeem” myself.

  237.  #237dolcebambina on January 9, 2014 at 12:14 am

    I miss our lengthy fun dates. I miss our talking for hours with space in between. I miss hearing his voice often. The sweet things he used to say. His eagerness for meaningful dialogue, even though sometimes it got too lengthy. Hehe! Could potentially drive me crazy I suppose!

    N and I have drifted apart somehow and that feels somewhat sad to me. That sweet sadness really surprises me!! I feel somehow it will all be alright, but I wonder now if a large part of that is my feeling relief, in feeling I have escaped once again and could never then potentially feel trapped with yet another.


    I have no idea how I would even speak to him when he contacts me, or what I would share. Part of me doesn’t want to.

  238.  #238Kath on January 9, 2014 at 2:06 am

    News flash!- Major break through last night!-He arrived home and asked about my day (rare!), asked if I was feeling better (not so rare) and then said he’d had a strange day and proceeded to tell me that he’d text his xwife and asked if she was baby sitting grandson no2 and if so perhaps they could catch up and she could bring the xmas presents she’d bought us. She said she couldn’t and that she had other plans but later her car broke down and he ended up having to go and pick her and grandson up. He said he wouldn’t have done it if grandson hadn’t have been with her. I listened, didn’t say anything and let him tell the whole story. Whenh he’d finished I simply walked towards him, thanked him for being honest and gave him a kiss on the lips. That’s it- nothing further needed. He cooked tea and we had an ok evening- not massively affectionate but it was better. I am leaning back and I will be leaning back more- when I said the other night how much I missed his arms around me his response was “It works both ways” which to me implies that even though I was the one who made the speech I should also be the one to start putting things right and I don’t agree with that. Its not that I’m being defensive or cold towards him but I it would be nice if he made some kind of affectionation-but then I suppose I am expecting again- and I should be giving myself the affection. Ooh I will get there!!!

  239.  #239Sophie on January 9, 2014 at 2:37 am

    232 – Millie – maybe you’re picking something up from them? its actually your intuition? I don’t know that’s a random although I do identify with it maybe it’s more to do with them than with you…i feel a bit advicey and I don’t want to do that I apologise if it feels like that at all- i’m just processing for myself I think = I know i’ve questioned myself a lot sometimes and in the end it comes down to whether I feel good in that person’s company or not – whether they support who I am – not necessarily an issue with me at all…xxx

  240.  #240Sophie on January 9, 2014 at 2:39 am

    Thank you for the love and acknowledgement Sami it feels good to be understood xxx

  241.  #241Aurora on January 9, 2014 at 3:47 am

    210 Tereana…

    oh my gosh…thank you for posting your thoughts…..they SO resonated with me!
    wow it takes some amazing honesty with oneself to say those things after reflection…….you rock!

  242.  #242Aurora on January 9, 2014 at 4:00 am

    217 Dominique
    Thank you so much for your link to your wise and loving thoughts on expectations…….I know I need to slow down and let the words sink in…..I think expectations come from feeling rushed, fear, afraid of getting hurt, not being mindful…..and they do add up to the disappoint me sign on my forehead for sure….

    I want to soften this and release it…..I feel better and open and relieved just thinking it’s possible, even reaching for this …….

    thank you!
    xo Aurora

  243.  #243Shannon on January 9, 2014 at 4:18 am

    dolce, this is the takeaway I got from your posts:

    “I am putting so much pressure on myself. I feel like I SHOULD want a relationship. I feel like I SHOULD be in a relationship already. I fear that a relationship will hurt me by taking away my independence. I don’t understand why I’m not in love already, it’s been SO LONG now, shouldn’t I already be in love?”

    These men are just reflecting back at you. You’re dating amazing alpha men (you’re an amazing, desirable, high-value woman).

    They’re feeling an expectation that you should be in a relationship already, in love already. You’re feeling an expectation that it’s been long enough that you SHOULD be in love and in a relationship already.

    They are questioning whether or not you’re even capable of love or being in a loving relationship. You’re questioning whether, as independent as you are, you’re even capable of loving or being in a loving relationship.

    Everything you accuse them of, I’ve seen you then turn around and say about yourself in different words. Their expectations that you fall in love already (sheesh, how long can it possibly take??), sounds like YOUR expectation of that (sheesh, shouldn’t I have already done this thing that will steal my independence?? How long can it take??).

    That’s what I “heard” as I read your posts.

  244.  #244Dominique on January 9, 2014 at 7:57 am

    Amber – 228 – yay you indeed. ๐Ÿ™‚


  245.  #245Dominique on January 9, 2014 at 8:08 am

    dolcebambina – 229-231 – I read your lovely novel, yet I feel lost. I’m not really sure what your question/dilemma is.

    If I got this right, he pursued you when you were not hung up on him, and now he’s backing off now that you’re interested?

    First of all 2 1/2 months is nothing, no time at all. Keeping your focus on you, filling your life up with your passions and people who make you smile is always a good way to go.

    And when he says or does things which you love, you tell him how good it feels. Melt. Keep your heart open and soft in his presence.

    Yet continue to maintain openness and curiosity about your world and him as well.

    Was this what you were looking for?


  246.  #246Femininewoman on January 9, 2014 at 8:10 am

    Kath just to help me here. What do you see as the breakthrough?

  247.  #247Dominique on January 9, 2014 at 8:11 am

    Aurora – ๐Ÿ™‚

    Awareness is key, and you have this in spades.

    Love to you.


  248.  #248Indigo on January 9, 2014 at 8:53 am


    I wholeheartedly second what Shannon is saying.

    You question why he is being emotionally unavailable, while openly admitting how emotionally unavailable you are. Is this really a surprise to you?

    I say this because I experienced, and felt confused by, the very situation you are describing. Until I realized that it was not the outward things I should be focusing on – what is he saying, doing, feeling, where has he gone, I miss this, that and the other – no, it was the inner stuff in myself I needed to be focusing on.

    I am also very independent, and I had to have some frank and honest conversations with myself about what I really want from a man. I mean *really* want, not what I think I *should* want. What do I feel able to handle? What are my boundaries? Who am I, what do I feel, how do I feel around certain men, how do I like to feel? And then to honour these things, to be able to say yes to what I do want, and no to what I don’t want, even when I felt flattered by the attention.

    I just have this gut sense that these questions may also be helpful for you.

  249.  #249Indigo on January 9, 2014 at 8:56 am

    I apologise, dolcebambina, if what I said sounded in the least harsh… I wanted it to be gentle. It just kind of tumbled out.

  250.  #250Aurora on January 9, 2014 at 8:59 am

    Thank you Dominique
    If I could only get better at the ability to turn off my monkey mind in spades too! It just wants to analyze and monitor and shut off and blah yuck! old old habit…….

    I keep reminding myself, open, soft, loving, gentle, easy, curious as my new set point….


  251.  #251Liquid Light on January 9, 2014 at 9:18 am

    dolce, where are you meeting all these amazing alpha males??? tips please!!!

  252.  #252Kyla on January 9, 2014 at 9:25 am

    Dolcebambina – what I took from the first part of your post about all 4 men behaving the same way is that this is showing up as a message for you and because its suddenly being mirrored by all 4 of them makes it louder. This is really exciting though because you have 4 different men to experiment and practice shifting this with!!

    Are you soft, warm, open and loving heart while you lean back? Are you letting them in, sharing your feelings with them and expressing appreciation? Do you melt and gush?

    From my experience practicing – Leaning back can look like playing games, being cold and stand-offish to a man if it’s coming from a closed or guarded heart. Its your energy/vibe that matters much more than the actual tool you are using and leaning back is just a tool to help us stay open and receptive to what’s coming towards us rather than reaching out and trying to make something happen. Men can really feel our energy. Leaning back isn’t enough if it doesn’t feel safe for a man to lean forward. We create the safety they need to pursue us by staying open and heart centred.

  253.  #253Kyla on January 9, 2014 at 9:26 am

    Thank you ((Liquid Light)) I feel excited!

  254.  #254Millie on January 9, 2014 at 1:31 pm

    I’m here because I welcome advice.
    Yes my intuitionโ€ฆ..that goes back to the post I wrote about insecurity and trusting that as a genuine feeling.

  255.  #255dolcebambina on January 9, 2014 at 2:02 pm

    Thank you Dominique, Shannon, Indigo, Kyla! ๐Ÿ™‚

    I appreciate your time, thoughts and words very much! Still carrying them with me!!

    Shannon- Ok, I have been sitting with what you wrote this morning all day now and I appreciate what both you and Indigo said that brought me to this. I am aware now of being my complete, all open, bubbly, fun, soft self until I feel pressure from them and they ask me things like, why I’m not feeling the need to reach out to them -N’s words. “I feel like you are playing the, you’ll wait for me to contact and call you game”- also N’s words, followed by anger, and THEN *Dominique, him backing away slowly, even though I called a couple of times to quell his negative responses. He continued to test me for weeks and said he wanted to be able to feel it’s mutual. WT?? I had been saying things to him in the moment, like, I love seeing your name come up on my phone. I love hearing your voice! I am excited to spend time with you tomorrow. Cooking dinner with you was so fun. The night you planned for us was so special and fun and I really felt taken care of, I so appreciate that. etc. I know in my heart that He still thought I was playing games. I feel some of that is his to own. There is a common thing that continues to come up for me here though, which I don’t yet understand.

    Now more recently than all of that, is when I realize how much I miss him and feel sad. I have done what I feel is best for me. I did want to reach out to him and call him at times, but acted on what I believed was best. If basing it on feelings I would have called him, is that wrong? I don’t care so much about reaching out to the others to make them happy, especially when I have so much going on, (which is always) but w N, looking back, could it have felt like games to him? even though I had my business, school/classes/finals/graduation, circular dating, all kinds of exciting things going and I’ve been happy. He was coming so forward, emotionally available… UNTIL he got angry with me for not initiating, “reachin out.”

    Where I believe Shannon and Indigo have something is this, in what I wrote in my ‘’Novel” last night, is that not only N, but now in this week alone, the other three have said things like 1. they feel like they are putting forth all of the effort.
    2. They are always the ones calling and texting.
    3. “I feel like if I wasn’t the one contacting you, everything would drop and nothing would happen with us. We wouldn’t be seeing eachother still.” me- well duhhhh! hehe!
    4. If I like them why not show it and call.
    5.They don’t want to pursue anything with me if I don’t like really like them. One even asked if I felt love for him on the second date, we have been on four.
    I have been on 3 or 4 only, with all 3 and many more with N

    They are all pulling back, getting frustrated and angry with me and voicing it. Still comimg forward, but not with enthusiasm since voicing their insecurities about my attractions to them in turn and not initiating contact ever.

    Truthfully the pettieness and pressure turn me off!! II can’t help that!! So then….while I am feeling pressure, I may be recoiling and not very open, warm, emotionally available as I first was with them, that has them liking me enough to feel the need to apply pressure in the first place. I have said things like- I am feeling pressure, I feel confused by what you are saying, are you wanting something specific from me? I don’t know what to say, etc. Then I hear, “I can be patient.” “I’m a patient man!” “I don’t mean to pressure.” …but…

    I have said similar things to those above with N, but things were easy with him and I just wasn’t concerned about anything and just cruizing along. He still kept things fun and not so intense, which I crave! I said other things that were ok, but indirect. Lesson!

    OF COURSE they may be picking up on my feeling fear that my independence is going to be squashed, the pressure, my second guessing myself at times.They probably are mirroring me and my fears of something too conventional, which also limits my pool for men who are ready to commit?? hmmm…

    Should I be initiating if it feels alright?…which it most often doesn’t, but it is a feeling that comes from belief or formula that I believe is logical. I have not expirimented with that much yet, since practicing choosing my words carefully and other tools. Am I missing out on something in NEVER initiating until something is well established?…even if they are showing up in awesome ways and I feel great with them?Is that being too “rules”with them?

    I just don’t know. Something/s is/are still amiss. hmmm…

    Hugs! ๐Ÿ˜‰

  256.  #256Shannon on January 9, 2014 at 2:18 pm

    dolce, are you calling or contacting them when they tell you to?

    “Call me tomorrow” isn’t a request. It’s him leading you.

    Are you following, or are you ONLY leaning back, without the warm welcoming… FOLLOWING?

    If a man says he wants you to call him or he asks you to do something, that’s him leading. That’s the time to follow and do what’s been requested of you. When he says, “call me tomorrow” and you don’t, then you’re being cold, you’re not following, you’re leaning back without the essential elements of warmth and surrender/ following.

  257.  #257Liquid Light on January 9, 2014 at 2:32 pm

    Has anyone heard of The Three Day Rule dating site?

    Dolce, I’d really like to know how you are meeting all these quality alpha males, please! I keep meeting wimpy men and I’m just so tired of it. Thanks!

  258.  #258Liquid Light on January 9, 2014 at 2:37 pm

    dolce, yes, I’ve noticed this too. That if a man really likes you and they usually know this very quickly, and you don’t reciprocate, they get angry/frustrated. I guess the point is that they know that you don’t reciprocate.

    With me, its that I don’t trust a man when he comes on so strong. I question his feelings and that makes me mistrustful and then he senses that and backs off. Maybe that’s what happens with you too? I dunno but next time, that someone comes on strong AND I like him a lot too (I usually know this pretty quickly too) I’m not going to question it and just be open to it and enjoy it.

  259.  #259Cris on January 9, 2014 at 2:40 pm

    Liquid Light ๐Ÿ˜€


  260.  #260dolcebambina on January 9, 2014 at 2:41 pm

    Kyla- I couldn’t help but melt and gush and have fun. Like the comfort of hanging out with my brother because he isn’t super handsome in the more usual ways, but feeling romantic and attracted too. Time with him, fun and easy. Kind of changed when he got angry and frustrated with me for not “reaching out to him!” :-/

    As far as The places I am finding them! POF, Dancing salsa, bachata, merengue. City meet-up events. Talks that I give. Parties. I have no children, so it is easy for me to get out and circulate and be super active.

    The add to my last post, is this, the overwhelming difference between Rori’s materials and all of the others is, feelings first, experimentation encouraged and big on not really using rules. The not using rules, is tough to deviate from once dedicated to them from before!

  261.  #261Liquid Light on January 9, 2014 at 3:11 pm

    Thanks Dolce. I’m not having much luck on POF but I like some of your other suggestions. I haven’t salsa danced in a long time but would like to do it again. I’m going to look into it, and you can dress up for salsa which I like to do. Thanks!

  262.  #262dolcebambina on January 9, 2014 at 3:30 pm

    Shannon- When he asks me to call him I call him, and WHEN he tells me to, or very close to it. He on a some occassions has not answered and a couple of those times didn’t call me back, but texted me a few days later. That was after being asked specifically by him and for some specific reasons to call. So I felt like that didn’t work well for me. Felt like games (between you and I), but I told him it felt strange to me.

    Then last Sat. he asked me to call him and I said that calling him doesn’t work well for me, he knew exactly what I was talking about and said right away, I will be here and I will answer and he did. He also said he would call me back to talk more or on Sun. and I have heard nothing from him since. That to me, equals give the man all the space in the world and no contact from me. I don’t do that with his calls. I call back in a resonable amount of time. ESPECIALLY if we have plans.

    Yes, thank you for reminding me and I heve learned that from Rori, that if they ask then follow and do. He is always inviting me over and we live 45 minutes apart and I drive to him. I have not minded and it has felt good to be in his home and not in mine all the time. Seeing his life, and his style, who contacts him etc. Not being at my place all of the time was refreshing! I was just getting ready to express though too, that I would like it if he came over to my place more and share that responsibility of driving to be more equal, because it was begining to feel like a lot with my schedule.


  263.  #263dolcebambina on January 9, 2014 at 3:56 pm

    Liquid Light- Dancing salsa is a great way to practice having men lead, because dance ONLY works that way!! Plus dressing in cute dresses is fun. You will definitely get asked to dance, sometimes more than others. You can experiment and play with your vibes and energies and play the field without risk of rejection at all. The woman always wins in dance!! There are so many men who will love to teach you and will enjoy your needing them too. Many of the great male dancers I know learned on their own in the streets. Please let me know if you try it. You can sign up on your cities Meet-up website if your city has one and many do.

    I attract Alphas fairly easily, keeping them or wanting to keep them once I have them…..hmmmm…..
    I find many bring a lot of drama and issues with them closer to my age, as many have dated a lot like me and have full histories to recover and grow from themselves. hehemmm ๐Ÿ˜‰

    In reply to what you indirectly asked before, about not trusting for me possibly as well…
    well, I would just say that for me it takes a while. If I have guys in rotation and he may be my favorite, it may only be for a while, as I have experienced so many times. It today has only been 2 1/2 months, so very short time. I wish I would have known right away, but I didn’t because I was busy with all of the others ๐Ÿ™ Now that it has slowed way down with him I miss him and in looking back, had I not been so distracted I would have paid him a little more of the attention that he was indirectly asking for, when talking by phone texting and not together. That I realize only RIGHT NOW. Who knows maybe there will be more opportunity. I am hopeful. If not him then there will be another. It is just so rare for me to be here, in this place that I actually care that he goes. I just don’t know what to say when that time comes that we would talk again. It could be a turning point. I have Love Scripts and went through it and through it several moths ago. I get the idea and yet I feel I need coaching with this one.


  264.  #264dolcebambina on January 9, 2014 at 4:05 pm

    Liquid Light- I feel my intuition was off and tuning into him was difficult, because so many other things like graduating from school on top of everything else and circular dating. I think he’s been more sensitive to that and there are others that I can string out for a long time…my usual pattern.

    Oh well…still learning and that’s alright, because I love to learn always and so many things! ๐Ÿ™‚

  265.  #265Rori Raye on January 9, 2014 at 4:12 pm

    Rene – Welcome – and speaking only for myself – I could never, ever, ever tolerate this kind of situation. A man on the fence is the same to me as no man at all. I think you’re doing brilliantly, and if this situation fits your needs, I would say good for you – perhaps you have a bit of “polyamory” in you, and I’d encourage you big time to Circular Date (not “date” – Circular Dating is something else entirely…) I only know in this situation I’d be out the door like…yesterday. Love, Rori

  266.  #266Liquid Light on January 9, 2014 at 4:48 pm

    Dolce, yeah, I know what you mean about the salsa dancing. It is sexy. I don’t really have a problem attracting sex though and its not really what I’m looking to attract right now. What I want is a relationship with a quality alpha male who is successful. For me, that’s the Gold. I had in my last relationship, he was Gold, and I want it again. Well he was tarnished Gold, as I came to realize that he was really broken under the shiny surface. I want someone who is whole and healthy and Golden :).

  267.  #267Liquid Light on January 9, 2014 at 5:46 pm

    i guess you didn’t mention anything about sex…hahaha!!! guess you know where my mind is!

  268.  #268Liquid Light on January 9, 2014 at 6:05 pm

    There’s a guy on POF who wants me to come over and cook for me. He hosts meet up dinners and has tons of photos and looks totally legit. Also has a bnb and has a lot of glowing reviews. I just don’t want to go over to his house when I don’t even know him. I suggested coffee but he really wants to cook for me and his food looks amazing. I’m vegan and he says he’ll cook vegan for me and I love great vegan food. Ughh. I really want to go but I don’t feel comfortable since I know he will make a move. On the other hand, its been over a year so maybe I should let my guard down!!!??? He does seem cute too! I’ve been contemplating a fling…hmmm. What do you all think? Really bad idea? Really good idea? ๐Ÿ™‚

  269.  #269Liquid Light on January 9, 2014 at 6:09 pm

    I suggested I bring a girlfriend and he said sorry, romance is just between two people!!

    what do you think? my head says absolutely NOT, my heart says, it sounds like a lot of fun, adventure, etc.

  270.  #270Shannon on January 9, 2014 at 6:18 pm

    Liquid Light, have you stated that you feel pressured and uncomfortable having a first meet be at your house? That it feels far too intimate for you?

    Honestly, no matter how “wonderful” a guy sounds, when he pushes this hard for things to be on his terms and isn’t hearing or honoring your obvious desire to keep it lighter, he’s NOT wonderful.

    That sounds like a high-pressure salesman, and honestly, reading that, I’m going to be blunt… I feel afraid. I hear a man railroading a woman and the woman KNOWING in her heart that she’ll be railroaded even MORE if she accepts… and she’s still not saying “no”.

    I feel real fear that after that, you’ll say that you feel yucky because he either did, or tried to, high-pressure salesman you into bed.

    I don’t hear your heart saying it sounds like fun and adventure, I hear you saying that it feels like chemistry and excitement… while the rest of you is going, “it feels like a sleazy high pressure salesman who’s going to try to get me into bed! And I’ll do it, because I KNOW that’s what he’s after and I won’t have an excuse! But I don’t really want to do it!”

    I feel very fearful that you’ll do something that ends up feeling SO icky, just because he’s pushing SO hard for it. It sounds like he’s one of these guys that KNOWS how to trip our triggers and get what they want from us… and as Rori said, we all want to say we would never fall for it, but we DO.

    But we don’t have to. We can make new choices.

  271.  #271Shannon on January 9, 2014 at 6:22 pm

    A caveat: That could all just be MY baggage and what I HEARD, not necessarily how you feel.

    I found it very triggering, because I’ve given in once in the past to a guy because I knew he wanted it, but found myself letting him come over… and then feeling like I couldn’t really say ‘no’ since I KNEW but agreed.

    So please take it with the knowledge in mind that I heard “my own experience” in there, and your mileage, as always, may vary. ๐Ÿ™‚

  272.  #272Liquid Light on January 9, 2014 at 7:20 pm

    Yeah, Shannon, I hear you… I dunno, it does sound exciting and fun but I have a feeling he’s definitely going to come on to me.

  273.  #273Kyla on January 9, 2014 at 7:28 pm

    It depends how you feel Liquid Light!

    I met a man on POF and similar situation first meet and he was insisting on cooking for me at his house. I decided to go for the adventure and he drove to pick me up. If I’d felt anyway unsafe of course I wouldn’t have gone. Anyway it has been one of the best dates I’ve had in years even though I dropped him shortly after, sadly he had some of my non negotiables, it was an amazing night watching him do his thing, showing off while I sat there being pampered and served and asked to taste this and that as he was cooking, yum. I felt like the set up made it easy for us to be in our desired energy and I could just receive, receive, receive.

    He did make a move on me, actually twice and it felt so empowering to practice no while staying open and feeling good about my choice to not have sex without love as it feels disconnecting and his estimation of me seemed to sky rocket which felt goddessy.

  274.  #274Amber on January 9, 2014 at 7:33 pm

    Liquid Light,

    I agree that it sounds fun but to me it doesn’t sound like an APPROPRIATE first meeting. If he’s really interested in YOU he would take your BOUNDARIES into consideration. How about something like, “It would feel so great to meet you. I feel uncomfortable having a first meeting in such a personal space.”
    Then let him figure it out. If he doesn’t respect your boundaries, he won’t respect a “not yet” answer to a sexual advance, either, and in his home, you’re at his mercy.

    Cheers, Sirens!

  275.  #275Amber on January 9, 2014 at 7:39 pm

    That being said, if it were me, i would probably go. However I would only do it if YES had been my first instinct. If my first thought was NO, i’d listen to that!

  276.  #276Liquid Light on January 9, 2014 at 7:57 pm

    wow, interesting to hear your stories and perspective!!! Thank you for sharing!

    To be honest, I wouldn’t go into it with any expectations of a relationship. I can already tell that he’s not my type. But he could be fun for a night or two and I do love it when a man cooks for me. I saw photos of him entertaining at his big dinner parties that he throws, and he seems like a great host. He likes to drink. And so do I so that combination along with being alone with him etc. just seems like one thing could easily lead to another at least in his mind. I just don’t want him to pressure me for sex and that I would give in and not feel good about it. It could feel sleazy to me and I don’t want to feel like that.

    Kyla, how were able to resist his advances? Any tips?

  277.  #277Liquid Light on January 9, 2014 at 8:00 pm

    oh yeah, he’s a professional chef

  278.  #278Liquid Light on January 9, 2014 at 8:04 pm

    I dunno, it would probably really fun and I haven’t had fun with a man like that (not talking sex, just fun being together) in such a long time. ๐Ÿ™

  279.  #279Liquid Light on January 9, 2014 at 8:07 pm

    wow, this is crazy…5 min ago I was saying to myself absolutely not, now I’m saying why not? wow, crazy!

  280.  #280Kyla on January 9, 2014 at 8:46 pm

    Liquid Light I let him kiss me as that felt ok and just melted and when he made a move I immediately pulled back and said oh I feel overwhelmed and need to stop and it felt so good kissing you *smile*

    Later when he made suggestions for me to spend the night I said I feel flattered and no thank you. I’m feeling so good here with you and tonight has felt so fun and I don’t like sex without love I feel disconnected and it feels so good when I take my time. *smile*

    oh and its ok to laugh but I also wore really ugly panties and didn’t shave my legs purposefully to give myself the extra “not going there no way no how” confidence because I really really wanted to practice voicing my boundary and knew I needed the backup reinforcement to be so brave in such a cozy, intimate setting. I was right, I needed it and it worked!

  281.  #281Liquid Light on January 9, 2014 at 8:49 pm

    hahaha!! that made me laugh, Kyla, about the ugly panties so funny! thanks for all the info, I really appreciate it! Still not sure what to do but I love the ugly panty technique! ๐Ÿ™‚

  282.  #282Amber on January 9, 2014 at 8:49 pm


    I LOVE that you wore ugly panties and didn’t shave your legs!

  283.  #283Andrea on January 9, 2014 at 10:22 pm

    I wouldn’t go Liquid LIght. I’m saying I wouldn’t go. I’m not saying that you “shouldn’t” go.
    I wouldn’t go because I put myself in your spot. Here’s a guy, he’s fun, he’s a chef, we met online and we chatted it up. Now he wants me to come over to his house for a first meeting.

    Here’s how it makes me feel: Not special. Not high value. It makes me feel as though this is his “M. O.” and he must meet many women online and it’s the first thing that he suggests because it is EASY for him. He gets to be in HIS comfort zone. (I don’t care if sex is on the table or not.) This is EASY for him. Therefore if I go to him and let him have my company in such and easy way, why does he need to put forth any other effort?

    I would feel like… “How many other women have been here, sitting at this counter, impressed with his cooking?” I would not be able to shake the feeling that I was just another woman visitor. Another notch in his belt.

    And me… I don’t care if I see it as going anywhere toward a relationship or not… I don’t want to feel that way around any man.

    Instead, I would “have fun” with myself. I would cook for myself, take myself out dancing, or to the library, or an art show. I would do a girls night in, bathe, wine, do my nails.
    “I don’t want to go over to your house.” And I would be smiling and relaxed when I said it.

    Does he want to see me? Would I go over to his house sometime in the future after he has shown me that I really am worth the effort for him to step out of his comfort zone and come and GET ME? Yeah. I would give him a chance. I would see him as the man that he is and the truly awesome date that he could be. I would give him a chance to win my affection, my time, my companionship. (Maybe sex sometime in the future?)
    But my time… just my time… is valuable to me. If a man wants my time, he needs to come and make an effort to get my time.

    That’s just me. I don’t want to go to his house because I don’t want to FEEL like I’m easy. I’m not easy. My time is uber valuable to me. I do lots of things by myself that make me feel great. And why waste me time with someone who doesn’t even think I”m worth the effort to leave his home for me?

    That’s just me.

  284.  #284Cris on January 9, 2014 at 11:05 pm

    @FW I think my comment was about a generalization you made, not Rori. I don’t think she has made any. Anyway, if I feel triggered by generalizations I think I can express it the same way as others in the blog express about themselves. Anyway it is the past ๐Ÿ™‚

  285.  #285Arpita on January 9, 2014 at 11:26 pm

    Wow..This post is so helpful! Thank You

  286.  #286Millie on January 10, 2014 at 12:17 am

    Andrea! What an amazing response! And I feel the same way. “I don’t want to FEEL easy.” It’s not about being the definition of easy…it’s about how you feel about yourself and I am on board with that! And YES, while we all know virtually nothing about Liquid Light’s man…if this is the first meeting, I would want to see if he’s willing to step out of the house. I don’t doubt he is an amazing chef, but the first date is not about him, it’s about how you feel. Liquid Light, I would say, if you don’t feel comfortable for WHATEVER reason…xyz, don’t go! “I don’t feel comfortable driving to a man’s house on the first date.” I’ve definitely said that….because it’s TRUE. And as Andrea said, regardless of what his intentions are, if you are already second guessing….you are putting him first, and he’s putting him first too. I’m not so good at this, but the other night since Mechanic and I are “friends” I suggested meeting up for a drink since I was already out and thought he might be too. Instead he said he had booze at his house and wanted me to come over. I can’t deny that I want to be sexual with this man…I can’t deny it. But at the same time, I would feel like SHIT if I drove over to his house, drank booze he already had, and spent the night. I would feel TERRIBLE the next day. Yea the sexual part would feel good, I’ll enjoy that…but in the moment, it wasn’t worth it. So I said no. He was probably a bit disappointed, a bit perplexed, but that probably lasted about 60 seconds. I realize that this is going to take baby steps for me….breaking habits, breaking thought patterns, resisting urges, is going to take baby steps. But as Andrea said….this man didn’t want to leave the house for me. That doesn’t feel good. He might another night, but not that night. So, no.

    DolceBambina–I LOVE dancing!!! I love that in the world of dancing, roles make sense! Men lead, women follow, and following is an art! Not to be underestimated. I used to try to lead men on the dance floor, but after some experience I’ve been able to completely let go and let him take me for a ride! It feels amazing because each man dances differently and it’s always a surprise!! I like chatting when I dance sometimes, if he can talk and dance at the same time ๐Ÿ˜‰ I feel truly happy when I’m dancing. I love it. It’s such a release and I feel so radiant. I don’t really meet men this way, but I meet friends, I meet great dancers, I meet people that make me into a better dancer, and when I’m dancing, I’m not thinking about men, or about if they are interested, I’m listening to the music and feeling their lead. It’s f-ing fantastic.

  287.  #287Tereana on January 10, 2014 at 5:00 am

    Aurora & Olivia – thanks for the props! ๐Ÿ™‚


    My brain is cracking me UP today!! I keep getting random “theme songs” in my head. It started last night.

    A guy from Okc asked me out. He’s younger than me, and really cute. I get the sense he just wants to “have fun,” and I know he’s not totally serious. Yet I feel attracted and want to meet him anyway. (Funny, even as I’m writing this out, his “theme song” is coming back.)

    After texting him, I suddenly noticed that Britney Spears’ “Toxic” was running through my head. And I can’t even remember the last time I heard that song.

    Here’s the kicker – I didn’t know if the song came up related to him or to S, because I thought of them both close together. But this morning it’s clear that it’s the new guy. It is very, very obvious. My brain is sending a little message. And I’m receiving it loud and clear, and yet – I still want to go on the date. Lol. I just feel so tickled that he asked me out. Maybe we could be friends. It’s just so funny that he has a “theme song” (and I’m pretty relieved that it wasn’t S).

    That’s not the only song, either. This morning I also go “Eidelweiss” in my head, and it we got some unexpected snow : ) also, sitting on the train for my commute, “Somewhere out there” from Feivel started playing on my brain radio. That was pretty awesome. Because I actually forgot about that song. And as I “listened” to the words in my mind, it was so neat – “Somewhere out there, beneath the pale moonlight, someone’s thinking of me and loving me tonight.”

    And that just makes me feel so good and nice to think about ๐Ÿ™‚

  288.  #288Tereana on January 10, 2014 at 2:03 pm

    LL – what is that dating site? I’ve never heard of it. It’s sounds like something I wouldn’t like, but now I’m curious. (Was it “three day rule” or “three date rule”??)

    Dolcebambina – oh my goodness, I loved your posts. I figured it was only fitting that I read yours, since I regularly write novels and memoirs on here.

    What really spoke to me and jumped out was how you noticed these strong alpha males acting like they need your reassurance, or being emotional, I forget how you put it. But it just stuck out because it seems like a contradiction, but actually it’s not.

    I recently read an article – quite random – written by a guy who basically used to work as a com artist. That’s what he did. And do you know what he said? He said women were rarely, or significantly less often his marks. Men were almost always his victims because – and he really wrote this – “men are more emotional.” And that was also written by a man. And the converse of that is, women are more rational. They are more likely to ask questions and not get caught up in the scheme.

    When I read that, I was like, “AHA!” Yes, major eye-opening moment. Because men, overall, ARE more emotional than women. I’ve seen it dozens of times. But usually, they do not know what to DO with those emotions. Alpha males are the worst. Because they have big emotions and they are trying to fight them and be “strong.” Beta males, I think, have less trouble in this area, because they don’t hold the same expectation, internally, that they won’t be emotional. They just are.

    And this also dovetails with something else I heard recently: women need to have their emotional needs met, before they feel really sexual (this is definitely true for me), and men get in touch with their feelings and emotions THROUGH sex.

    Oh my G-d, this made so much sense. Again, a major AHA. Because it’s true. But some men can get overwhelmed with this. And it really only works (best) if the two people are I’m sync with their relationship.

    So anyway. I just wanted to share that. Because you are not crazy for seeing this in the guys. And there’s nothing weird about it. The more “macho” a guy is, the more likely he is to have very sensitive feelings underneath. This is not “anti”-male. It is actually a part of masculinity. But it’s not really the “socially acceptable” part. So that’s why men need a strong, connected-to-herself, feeling woman, who is totally ok with her feelings, so that they can feel safe to have their feelings around her.

    Does that make sense?

    That was cool that you wrote that. It really made me think : )

  289.  #289Liquid Light on January 10, 2014 at 10:18 pm

    Little update on the professional chef. He asked me to come over tomorrow evening to cook for me. After a while I texted back OK, but by that time, he said he had been invited to LA. I was a bit relieved. He also texted that he wanted another photo. That made me uncomfortable. I already have 8 up on my profile…whenever a guy asks for a photo, it makes me feel like he wants a certain kind of photo. What do you all think about that? Does it make you feel weird at all?

    Anyway, the only reason that I wouldn’t go is because I get the feeling that he would come on really strong sexually and I don’t want someone putting that kind of pressure on me all night long. Chasing me around the table kind of pressure, that’s the vibe I get. He’s latin or middle eastern and those men (sorry to stereotype but its been my experience) can be very pushy. So now I’m feeling reluctant again.

    I so want to have a professional chef cook me an awesome vegan meal, that sounds SO appealing, but I’m not sure its worth it. Sigh.

  290.  #290Indigo on January 10, 2014 at 10:34 pm


    I have to say, when I read you had been driving 45 minutes to see “N” at his place, my heart sank a little. For me, and I’m not saying it is the same for you, this would be far too much effort and overfunctioning big time.

    Men tend to value and invest in what they have to make an effort for. But more than that, for me, I would definitely start to feel resentment creeping in. What I get from your post is that this is happening for you as well. I would definitely, without a doubt speak up about it, saying it would feel wonderful if he could come to your place and that you are a little tired of driving.

  291.  #291Shannon on January 11, 2014 at 4:56 am

    Liquid Light, I seriously, seriously wouldn’t go.

    This guy is “funneling you” towards a sexual encounter. He’s working very hard to set you up into a situation where you’ll feel like, “Now I either have to put up, or shut up,” and as women, those kinds of scenarios often end up with us doing something we wish we hadn’t.

    You ALREADY feel pressured. Yet he’s doing it SO cleverly that you feel pressured, and you STILL are thinking that it’s okay to put yourself into this situation.

    A situation that you clearly KNOW the outcome of already.

    At some point while you’re there, this pushy guy is going to have funneled you to “the sex decision” and he’s going to either get sex, or it’s going to end up with you storming out or fleeing from the situation according to your personality.

    I’m sorry I’m not using “I feel” statements, but quite frankly, my Boy is in a complete uproar… and my Girl is like, “Oh. My. God. This feels FRIGHTENING!”

    Please don’t do it. I’m asking you as one woman to another, please don’t do it.

    Stick to standards. A man who cannot hear your feelings and refuses to PLEASE YOU by accepting “that feels uncomfortable” as a “NO!!”, is NOT up to your standards!

    It doesn’t matter how cool he is, LL. If pleasing you is not JOB NUMBER ONE, he is NOT up to your standards! Standard number one, top priority, never ever give in on… your feelings and pleasing you is JOB NUMBER ONE.

    Job number one for him is getting his way. And WHAT IS HIS WAY?

    If you go over there for any reason besides, “I am ready to have sex with you tonight. Maybe it won’t happen, but I am completely on board and ready”, then you are lying to yourself.

    You KNOW why men try to get you to their house. You KNOW. We all know, whether we want to acknowledge it or not.

    You KNOW what will be EXPECTED of you, and whose pleasure that is about.

    The vegan meal isn’t for your pleasure. IT’S A BRIBE and an enticement to get you into a position where he can seek HIS pleasure with you.

    Refuse the date. It will probably shock him so deeply that he’ll do anything to be with you. Because you are a HIGH STANDARDS WOMAN. You might even be the first one to turn him down in years.

    Or he may forget about you. In which case, you majorly win because there won’t be attempt after attempt after attempt to assert your boundaries against.

    I apologize if I’ve overstepped. This is super triggering for me. I have been listening to “pick up” artists for years. You are being channeled towards sex. Nothing in this scenario is about pleasing you beyond the fact that he MIGHT go down on you if he thinks he can then coerce you into going down on him. Which is still NOT about your pleasure.

    I know how these guys work. They have their methods, and you’re walking right into this one. This is a complete and total trap. He shouldn’t be working so hard to ignore your “I don’t feel good doing that”. He should be ALL OVER whatever it takes to MAKE YOU FEEL GOOD.

    But he isn’t, because all he cares about is his agenda.

    Your happiness isn’t his agenda.

    That’s all I’m saying about it. I know I’m in full-on Boy mode, so I’m just not going to say any more. I’ve read the pick up books and listened to the pick up artist teachers. This is going to culminate in only one of two scenarios. You’ll give him the sex or you’ll leave feeling dreadful from all the pressure to give him the sex.

    Every single sign is there. Every one of them.

    But I’m not going to “mother” you any further or be Miss Bossy Pants after this post. I just had to get it off of my chest because I care about you as another woman. Genuinely care about you. I hate to see this happen to any woman. It feels so horribly horrible, and I don’t want to see you feel that way (or any of us).

    *HUGS* Please forgive me for letting my Boy take over. But if it keeps you from lowering the most important standard that you have, I am not going to lie, I’ll feel very relieved.

  292.  #292Indigo on January 11, 2014 at 5:49 am

    Liquid Light,

    If it were me, I certainly wouldn’t go. Travelling to a guy’s house for a first date would be way too much effort and “planning” for me, for a first date.

    It also felt super icky to read that he told you he had “been invited to LA in the meantime”, as though you were an option. Wouldn’t be good enough for me. And the photo thing is almost certainly a sexual thing, I’m sorry to say.

  293.  #293Cris on January 11, 2014 at 5:52 am

    @Liquid Light… well, if you go, you can criticize his food: “this is salty”, “this is overcooked…” Observing his reaction would be a great fun!!!! ๐Ÿ˜€

    just kidding, but I could not avoid imagining that pretentious man hearing what he is not used to!


  294.  #294Femininewoman on January 11, 2014 at 6:17 am

    I totally agree with Indigo and Shannon. I know Rori coaches to bring the men to your home. On a first date however, safety is paramount. Going to a man’s home on a first date without knowing what he is like or what he is about is as far as I am concerned putting your life on the line. I would ask myself what is it about me that even after my gut feeling is telling me that I am feeling pressure that I would still be considering taking up this man’s offer even after he is putting me on hold for LA? Regardless of stereotypical typing men in general want to get naked or half naked when they are indoors. Many men translate a woman agreeing coming their home is agreeing to have sex. Sad but true. I have personally heard it from enough of them to not question it. It reminds me of “come into my parlour said the spider to the fly”. No food could be more important than your safety Liquid Light. I can almost guarantee that if asked Rori would advise you against going. On a first date it is setting up a pattern and expectations. It shows him you are willing to do anything to be with him. This is a stranger for crying out loud.

    With regard to more pictures, when asked I never do. I know men are visual but if you ask me if you have 8 pictures already up and he wants more I would assume next thing he will be asking you for is naked pictures. As far as I am concerned with internet dating my physical safety is my first priority. I will only meet men half way and in public on neutral ground.

  295.  #295Femininewoman on January 11, 2014 at 6:23 am

    Also if this is a first date, bear in mind that some people don’t tell the truth. Do you know for sure he is a chef? Would you trade off your safety for some food? Sorry if I sound panicky but my insides is going into overdrive on this one.

  296.  #296Liquid Light on January 11, 2014 at 12:48 pm

    Yes, ladies, I hear you all and I so appreciate your feedback!

    Going to a stranger’s house like that is something that I would not ever consider but because he hosts and cooks gourmet meals at his home (and has a huge Meetup group with pics and great review and has a BNB with pics and glowing reviews), it makes me feel like he’s legit and a decent person. So I wouldn’t feel unsafe since I’ve done my research on him and I feel like he checks out.

    The thing that I’m not sure about is his sexual advances and how that would feel. If he’s respectful of my saying No and let’s it go (as happened with Kyla), then that’s fine. However, if he’s extremely pushy and relentless then that would not feel good.

    I do want to reiterate, this is not about dating him or being in a relationship with him. I don’t have any expectations around that. I don’t care if I make the effort or not with him or vice versa (though I do want him to cook for me), or if I’m high value or not in his eyes, since this would be just about the experience and adventure of it all. Period. So the fact that he ended up going to LA and instead of seeing me didn’t bother me at all. I was relieved to be honest.

    I’ve been in a funk since my breakup and have very little interest in men sexually. I’m starting to feel those feelings again recently which feels GREAT. This would be about having fun and maybe having a sexual affair and that would be it. So not about anything more than that.

    My boss at work (whom I found IS married) is a case in point. I find him to be really attractive. And instead of having any expectations around that (which I don’t since he’s married) I’m still enjoying the attraction that there is between us. And he does too. I loved looking at his face, which I did frequently in a meeting yesterday, and enjoying his masculinity and gorgeous eyes. I think he loved it too and I don’t think either one of us would take it any further. Its just so great to feel those feeling of attraction again, and men absolutely love it when you appreciate them like that I think.

    Anyway, the chef thing would just be a fun sexual fling but I’m not sure if he’s the right one for me to do that with.

  297.  #297Liquid Light on January 11, 2014 at 12:55 pm

    Before anyone pounces on me for flirting with a married man, first of all he started it months ago. I thought he was single (no ring) and started to flirt back a little. I found out recently that he was married, oh well. Also, I don’t think of it as flirting since I’m not really doing anything overt, just staring and appreciating, that’s it. I’m not of the camp that married people can’t and shouldn’t flirt anyway. I think we all still enjoy the attraction of others even if we are married/involved, its taking it beyond that that’s not right in my mind and that’s something that I wouldn’t do.

  298.  #298Femininewoman on January 11, 2014 at 1:30 pm

    Liquid Light I wish you the best if you intend to have a fun sexual fling just that time and again I have seen women say the same thing then when they are in it they end up wanting more and hurting. About the married guy no judgement from me. I have come to accept that guys love to flirt. They don’t go through the processing we do about right or wrong, married or single. They just love to flirt and just do it, a lot of times with whoever is available or willing to go there with them. I know some very good guys who will do it but kind of make it clear they will not go anywhere further. It makes me wonder why they do it. Some even to the point if kinda reeling a woman in. I think it gives them a kind of high or powerful feeling somewhat. As long as both parties know and accept that it is going nowhere I do believe flirting can be very fun and harmless for many a man.

  299.  #299Liquid Light on January 11, 2014 at 1:39 pm

    And still no pictures!!:(

    I just got this message from the chef. OMG! This guy is too much!!!

  300.  #300Liquid Light on January 11, 2014 at 1:48 pm

    Also, I don’t see him as high value, I see him as low value (I want someone who is more successful) so I don’t really have much riding on it. He would be “Mr Right for right now”, that’s it.

    FW, I think I could do it (sexual fling) with him if I’m attracted to him, but I might regret it…I dunno…its been such a long time since I even contemplated doing something like that, I just dontknow! It feels fun to think about it though! ๐Ÿ™‚

  301.  #301Liquid Light on January 11, 2014 at 3:24 pm

    OK, here’s the latest email exchange with chef. What do you think? Definitely a bit strange. Would love to get your take, sirens!

    (This exchange happened after I sent him a link to my profile with the pics in it which he had already seen but anyway…)

    Chef: Got it!:)
    When will I meet you?:)

    Me: tonight? glass of wine?

    Chef: I am busy tonight!:(
    And we are to get together at my place and end up liking each other and having chemistry…I would want more than just a glass of wine…are we still on the same page?:)

    Me: I guess not. I don’t like feeling pressured into having sex if that’s what you meant

    Chef: I am a real chef that makes people very happy…if you feel you can find better…be my guests!:(

  302.  #302Millie on January 11, 2014 at 3:34 pm

    Liquid Light–

    It seems like you’ve gotten a lot of advice already on this Chef guy, but I’d just like to add my perspective:

    You mention that you are open to a sexual fling with this guy, but if he is “extremely pushy and relentless then that would not feel good.” From where I’m sitting, he’s being that already. He’s pushing you to do what he wants, which is go to his house and relentless with the pictures. I feel like a man that is interested in me, would be open to changing the location of the date, especially a first meeting. His text of “still no pictures :(” reminds me of a whiny boy who didn’t get his way, pouting with his arms crossed. Major turn off. How about…”I’d rather see you, than another picture.” This chef guy reminds me of a guy that was chasing me for awhile. At first his attention and persistance was flattering, but after awhile it became plain creepy. When I didn’t answer the phone, he’d text me something whiny. I had to block him, because as much I said no to his advances and never took his calls, he continued to act as if he had a chance to have some of my time. Men that don’t understand NO are scary, that live in their own version of reality. My point is, be careful. This guy is flying potential creep flag to me. You said you feel relieved he left. Relieved because now the pressure is off for you to deal with him maybe? I agree with Shannon that turning him down would be good idea. I wonder how much of your feelings have you shared? have you told him you feel uncomfortable? If you haven’t, I’d be interested to see how he reacts, if you have and he is still continuing to disregard that… flag….cease contact.

    Thank you for sharing this experience also, I find it helpful since it is in the beginning stages of a dating experience, which is where I’m at also. ๐Ÿ™‚

  303.  #303Millie on January 11, 2014 at 3:44 pm

    oh my god Liquid Light. I posted my previous post before seeing that conversation between you two! Wow…..
    At least he’s clear about what he wants…he wants more than a glass of wine!!! Hahah
    I would cultivate the sassiest, self-respecting, stop him in his tracks, response and send it! He thinks he’s too cool for school……reality check, he’s not!

  304.  #304Millie on January 11, 2014 at 3:46 pm

    Maybe a simple: “Thank you, I will. But I won’t be your guest.”

  305.  #305Femininewoman on January 11, 2014 at 5:24 pm

    Liquid Light – just plain blech

  306.  #306Liquid Light on January 11, 2014 at 5:27 pm

    OK, here’s the latest exchange:

    Me: so you would have the expectation of sex…what if I didn’t want to?

    Chef: If you don’t like me in that way when we meet…I would be fine with it…and will just become friends!!:)

  307.  #307Andrea on January 11, 2014 at 5:48 pm

    eewwww…. LL… way too much time and energy spent on this guy already. You keep saying that you’re in control.. but clearly…..

    You are already showing that you’re willing to dance for crumbs. Ick.. All the way.. Ick. And he knows it.

    Again, it’s not about the sex. It’s about the fact that he has no respect for you as a Goddess Siren Special Woman that he is LUCKY to even have the chance to speak to… The real question is not what’s on his mind, what is he thinking, getting at.. etc.. the question is.. why in the world do you even care???

    Icky Ick Ick… All the way.

  308.  #308Liquid Light on January 11, 2014 at 5:53 pm

    Andrea, I have respect for myself so why would I care if Chef or anyone other guy has respect for me? Respect has nothing to do with the other person, IMHO.

    You’re seeing this through your lenses, not mine. I keep saying that I don’t take this guy seriously, its about having fun, that’s it. And if that’s the only way he’s sees it too, that’s TOTALLY FINE WITH ME. My self worth is not connected to this man at all. I get the feeling this situation is a huge trigger for you but its not for me.

  309.  #309Luzydel on January 11, 2014 at 5:55 pm

    I am feeling “homie” want to clear/clean up my place and make it nice and confy! I am doing laundry and loving it. I am enjoying my time at home!

  310.  #310Liquid Light on January 11, 2014 at 5:56 pm

    Cheers to that, Luzydel, me too!!! ๐Ÿ™‚

  311.  #311Millie on January 11, 2014 at 8:25 pm

    Liquid Light–so are you still going to meet him?

  312.  #312prplpsn28 on January 11, 2014 at 10:23 pm

    Liquid Light…I agree with NOT meeting chef guy. Cease all contact. He sounds scary.

  313.  #313Liquid Light on January 12, 2014 at 9:25 am

    Millie, I really don’t know but thanks for asking.

  314.  #314venus on January 14, 2014 at 5:32 am

    I really need some advice.. my ex came back into my life recently after he went through a break up.. i told him at that time that i still love him, i don’t want to be with him and i wont help him get other girls. eventually he named us friends with benefits. i never agreed but never disagreed. i went on holiday and came back (hes now dating a few girls). So i asked him for sexual exclusivity and he agreed with an ‘okay’. we went out later and he was flirting with another girl. so when we had a moment alone i said i felt jealous and don’t want to see him doing that in front of me. i saw him a few days later and he sat me down and said he’s dating other girls (and he doesn’t know why hes explaining it to me because he shouldn’t but i need to know). He said he didn’t want to do ‘this’ anymore. So i said okay and physically stepped back. he then grabbed my hand, pulled me forward and said ‘you know i love you right.’. end of conversation. throughout the night we got quite drunk and he made flirtatious jokes about me being jealous and followed it up with ‘i love you.’ we slept together and i don’t think we’ve ever been so in the moment before, it was great.. now i haven’t heard from him in almost 3 days.. im really unhappy with the friends with benefits thing and him dating other girls, although i enjoy the moments. i’m trying to talk to guys and circular date (wow it’s not easy to find good guys). I should do it because one i cant be a door mat and two i need to stop over thinking about this guy – but the dating is really uncomfortable.. next, i need a way to clarify my boundaries that i dont like this situation but i dont want to row the boat for the next step. I just dont want him stepping on me… I really dont know what to do here. i feel like its a sticky one but that im clearly missing something here

  315.  #315venus on January 14, 2014 at 6:00 am

    and making three boundary calls in a row :s somehow i don’t think that’s cool.. (just to clarify we slept together the next day while sober).. erg. i can’t tell you how badly i want to call him.. this man is driving me nuts.. i guess i should really be looking at what i want.. i want a committed relationship with him but only if I’m the one he sees a future with, not just for now. otherwise i’d enjoy dating, but seriously the other girls thing ๐Ÿ™ Im worried that if i give him too many boundaries then i might as well be asking for the relationship no? and that i don’t want – he needs to want me or it’s not happening (that boy broke my heart once already). . Btw Rori Rocks! ๐Ÿ˜€

  316.  #316T. Bradley on January 30, 2014 at 1:44 pm

    I understand your pain trust me!!!!!! You shuld join us on the latest post!

  317.  #317doveangel33 on February 4, 2014 at 5:37 pm

    Dear Rori:

    I have been with a man since September. He is a toxic man and I find that lately I am losing feeling for him. Just today, we were talking on Messenger, like we always do everyday, and I asked him if he missed me and his answer was NOpe. I found that I didn’t have any smart answer, no cute comeback, I just had had it. I wasn’t understanding. He has had bad behavior in the past but this was just out and out mean. I basically told him I could help him out, that his comment was unnecessary and hurtful and I wasn’t going to bother him anymore. I then deactivated my FB account so that he could not get a hold of me. I just need a break from it. I feel like I failed, but I have to protect myself and cannot let anyone crush who I am. What am I doing wrong? I am following your courses but feel as though I am not doing well. Should I let this relationship go for good?

  318.  #318Rori Raye on February 4, 2014 at 10:24 pm

    doveangel – The only thing that’s going wrong here for you is investing exclusively in any one man. Circular Date!!! We’ll help! Love, Rori

  319.  #319Shannon on February 5, 2014 at 4:52 am

    doveangel, I heard SUCCESS there!

    You’re getting tired of being treated poorly, wow!

    Isn’t that wonderful? You are amazing. That’s amazing!

    That’s a huge step forward. To realize that you’re being treated poorly and to actually feel disconnected from the person treating you poorly is a big, important, and good step!

    Contrary to some teachings, I don’t feel that there’s anything noble about suffering… and especially not about deliberately subjecting yourself to it or willfully not removing yourself from it.

    The goal here is NOT to turn a man around or “you fail”, the goal here is to get into the relationship of your dreams where you feel loved and cherished!

    Your success isn’t measured by being able to force a toxic man into becoming prince charming. If he isn’t capable of stepping up, there isn’t a damned thing you can do. You can’t “fix” someone who isn’t capable.

    Success in this case is measured in YOUR HAPPINESS!

    Go find a man around whom you feel uplifted, loved, and cherished…

    Getting rid of the bad baggage isn’t failure, it’s success. ๐Ÿ˜€