How To Bring Something Up Without Leaning Forward – DON’T Bring It Up

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noHere’s a letter from J – and I had very strong feelings when I read it, because I know J’s history with this man. And also – most truthfully – because this is exactly the way I was, this is exactly the kind of question I would have asked of Rori Raye long ago, and I do NOT want you to have to go to this awful place.

“Hi Rori,

A guy who essentially disappeared from dating me…due to family issues, etc. had recently been contacting me, mostly via text. It’s brought up some feelings for me (i.e., hurt, anger, sadness, and frustration). It is good to hear from him, since i did care about him and we loved each other, however I feel he is truly clueless to the effect of his actions, since he contacts me in a very casual manner…as if he’s being friendly. I’ve texted back that if it’s his intention to contact me that I would prefer to speak with him.

He’s been texting, trying to figure out a time we could chat., which may be tonight, if I’m not busy doing other things.

My question: Even though I took your advice about this guy and acknowledged his lack of contact, etc by telling him I realize your feelings are not there anymore and this is over, but to let me know if there was something that pushed him away, for the next time. He didn’t respond to that….we planned to meet to discuss but that never panned out.

So here is my question: What if he calls to simply chat about how I am, etc…I feel this is a good opportunity to express my anger and frustration that he’s caused me. I don’t know how to bring it up, because I honestly think he will not bring anything up. Thank you. J.”

And here’s my answer:

J – This is where you ask yourself some hard questions – And the first question is “WHAT ARE YOU DOING!!!???? Why are you letting this guy come in and rake you over the coals again???!!!” (You can see I got excited, with all the heavy punctuation.)

I’m just going to say this straight out, because we’ve talked before and I know I can be tough with you — DUMP HIM.

Stop talking to him. You don’t need another friend, especially not a MALE friend, and that’s all he wants. Make that crystal clear — “Hi, it feels great to be in contact again, and yet I know that I still have feelings, so if what you’re looking for here is friendship, I just don’t wish to pursue friendships with men right now, so I wish you well and will not be staying in contact.”

If you were ready to ask him a question that would be helpful to you…you wouldn’t be feeling all this anger, hurt, etc. Do NOT give in and spew it on him. It will make you feel humiliated. Stay away from him if you feel all these things.

Now – let’s take this out into all our experience. This is about being so attached to any one man that you cut off the possibilities of other great men finding you. It’s like putting a fence around yourself that’s marked with the man-you’re- zeroed-in-on’s name. It’s like he’s peed on you, and marked you as his territory, and you’re showing his urine stain to the world.

I know that was a really harsh metaphor – but I want to really drive this home. Even just THINKING about a man is letting him “mark” you – and I don’t want you to do that!

I hear you making up all kinds of reasons for staying in contact with this man, like —

1. It seems harmless.
2. Perhaps you can get information from him about what happened (and I know I suggested this long ago – but that was long ago, when you were hurting anyway and it wouldn’t have hurt you more, or it might work if you were TRULY OVER HIM, but you’re clearly not.)

If you’re hurt over a man, you’re not over him. I don’t care how long ago it was. And talking to him again will only re-open the wound.

Let it heal. Forget him, or let him be your “muse,” or carry him with you on your horse into the rest of your life – but don’t let him have any control over you…

How you “use” him and the memory of him to HELP you and get you what you want is YOUR choice, and you should feel totally okay and happy and good about how you do that.

Letting him worm his way back into your waking life puts HIM in YOUR driver’s seat. And if you try hard to turn that around, you’ll just dig yourself in deeper.

Move AWAY from him – not back into his energy field.

Let me know how this works for you, and please share all your experiences with this kind of thing…

Love, Rori


  1.  #1alias girl on June 20, 2009 at 9:26 pm

    omg brilliant! i feel fantistico and can’t wait to go read that again. i say YES! i feel in agreement.

  2.  #2gina on June 21, 2009 at 12:19 am

    Thank you so much for this post, Rori! I really needed that metaphor! I don’t wanna be peed on!!! so if he lives in your head as a “voice” or witness kinda, is that a muse? i guess I can see how it feels pretty good to allow a man in my life in that way. It’s bad when I analyze him, try to control my behavior for his sake, anticipate how to make an impact in the future, or replay the past. No man gets to pee on me. I feel confused – why is this man back in her picture?? Why does he want to be her friend?? I don’t get it, but I guess that isn’t the point.

  3.  #3JasonSavage on June 21, 2009 at 3:31 am

    “Hi, it feels great to be in contact again, and yet I know that I still have feelings, so if what you’re looking for here is friendship, I just don’t wish to pursue friendships with men right now, so I wish you well and will not be staying in contact.”

    I like the advice to dump him, but the above communication seems to be invitation for him to step up and claim/ mark you even more.

    He could respond; “Well, actually I am hoping to be more than friends.”

    Now J is even more confused and distraught.

    Every little piece of communcation is an investment. Even a simple text can contribute to attachment.

    Guys know this. As long as you’re responding in some way, he thinks it’s on.

    That’s why I say you just have to outright ignore his communication attempts. It’s the most powerful message you can send.

  4.  #4Tracy on June 21, 2009 at 6:28 am

    WOW….I can totally relate to this post…I have always had a problem with guyz wanting to come back as friends and me feeling guilty about cutting communication.I always felt that i had a responsibility to be good and friendly to them because i am a nice person.I actually convinced myself that it was the christian thing to do so no matter how badly these guyz treated me i still kept communication and if they needed my help i would willingly oblige.
    This post has been a wonderful reminder to me on where my focus should be when it comes to being friends with guyz i still have feelings for.There is this one guy only weeks ago who called out of no where and wants me to assist him in preparing for his wedding yet just a while back he was all over me and when i wanted to know how serious he was he backed down and stopped communication only months later to send me a text telling me that he was engaged….I feel angry just writing this down….and deep down i realise the person i am really angry about is me for neglecting my self and my hapinessand chasing after him yet the honest truth is he wasn’t serious with me.I don’t feel cormfortable participating in his wedding or his arrangements and i feel much better jst focusing on my life and that is what i intend to do….he can manage his wedding without me….I feel bad about the way he treated me and though i am happy that he’s getting hitched and do wish him all the best i feel happier not being involved with his plans….
    I feel that the reason i try to keep these friendships going is because i feel afraid that i will end up alone and no one will want me otherwise…..Rori described the feeling so well in a previous post and i felt as though she was actually describing me…..I feel ashamed of my feelings and demands of how i would want the man to act towards me…as though he really cared and wanted me as his gal….i Feel ashamed of wanting/desiring such a relationship and so i stuff down my feelings and take what i can get…….
    I feel now that it all boils down to the beliefs i have of myself and how much i value myself….The more i love and cherish myself the less i will be willing to settle for anything that does not feel cormfortable…Its a process for me as i try to adjust myself to feeling good about who i am..

  5.  #5Dagmar on June 21, 2009 at 8:45 am

    Never feel ashamed of your feelings. You feel all the frustration and anger for a reason. Take care of yourself, by forgiving yourself for the way you acted towards this man. Then forgive him and if he contacts you again about his wedding plans and your involvement in it, tell him exactly what you just wrote here, about how you feel about his request. I don’t want to speculate about his motives, of why he asked your for help, but it feels fishy to me and just by reading this , I get this faint “yuck” feeling in my stomach.
    I feel you are building up some healty boundaries, that will prevent you from grabbing just anything life throws at you. That is very healthy. So trust your feeling and remember the lesson your learned from beeing involved with this piece of work.
    Love, Dagmar
    I hope that some of the Ladies here on this blog will talk to me exactly the way Rorie spoke in her post, when the need arises. I hope that somebody will grab me by my shoulder and talk some sense in to me.

  6.  #6Erika on June 21, 2009 at 10:20 am

    “I just don’t wish to pursue friendships with men right now”

    Lol, Rori, I love this line 🙂

    yeah, but personally for me, NOTHING is more empowering than getting to the point where I actually want the guy back in my life as a friend AND it’s not controlling me. He’s back in my life AND I am already cultivating relationships with other men. For me, that is way more empowering than ignoring him. Cuz if I’m ignoring him, I’m still thinking about him. I still feel “captive.”

    I think J needs some way to vent this energy. I would use a combination of Rori’s tools, Emotional Freedom Technique, Reiki, and maybe start a blog or a journal. Something to vent it all so that it’s all GONE. And non-violent communication to turn the anger and hurt into communications that are about J herself, rather than playing “victim” to the guy and whatever he did …

  7.  #7Tracy on June 21, 2009 at 10:41 am

    Thanks for the encouragement…..I do feel that my boundaries are starting to come up and i am working on speaking the truth with feeling messages.I do feel that i need to be stronger in the inside before i can speak my heart out so for now i feel more safe staying away….
    I feel inspired and encouraged each time i visit this blog and i feel more hopeful…

  8.  #8Linda on June 21, 2009 at 11:48 am

    I LOVE this post and subsequently the remarks from Jason

    Tracy, I have often felt I should not ever close a door permanetly because of my christian faith and being gracious to people. I must admit that there have been a few instances where I was hurt or disrespected so badly that I had to close it all down for good. It was absolutely the right thing to do too. Like you said, fear of ending up alone is a subconsious powerful driving force. Dont be too hard on yourself, just being aware your fear and admitting it is a step in the right direction. THe second step will be loving yourself enough to be protective and show up for yourself. We all have legitimate needs that vary from person to person. The drive to have them met is strong and it will cause us to do and say things that are not heathy for us. I know I did it for a long time and am sure not immune to doing it again.

    Friends for me are people that add to my life and dont ignore, betray, or use you for selfish gain etc etc.

    Jason says that responding is like a challange. That is interesting food for thought. There is a man I really liked after he pursued me… we had much in common, similar interests goals etc etc… but he kept being wishy washy and when I left him alone he would intiate contact again. He was hurtful the last time he withdrew from me. Telling me that I should have someone who adores me and appreciates me (in other words he didnt)… and that he just needed to be sure he was not “settleing” if he actually followed thru with all the things he proposed to be with me. If he contacts me again I will remain silent. Repetive rejections is really no fun.

    I have decided that I am not going to put any energy, (physical or mental) into any man until he has consistently proven that he is deserving canidate. So many will show up, act and behave interested and then when you respond warmly “poof” ! If you want to be my friend dont come on to me acting like a lover !!

    I am gonna be my best friend and let go of people and things that do not serve me well. That sounds selfish, I will still give to people, be open and kind, but for my special significant relationship… the standard is set.. I need to matter REALLY.


  9.  #9Linda on June 21, 2009 at 11:55 am

    Oh… I forgot this… if I told them I was not interested in being “friends” and they responded with… I am actually interested in being more than that… my response would be….. PROVE IT actions speak louder than words!


  10.  #10Erika on June 21, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    Brava, Linda! 🙂 Beautiful, thanks for posting.

    Yes, if he wants to be more than friends, let him show up on our doorstep with an engagement ring and an offer we can’t refuse.

    Until then, no man has any claim over us…

  11.  #11Symantha on June 21, 2009 at 12:31 pm


    Wow, I felt you passion on this post! I felt like me when talking to my dear friend telling her: RUN, RUN as fast as you can hahahaha… and I’m hearing my own advice as well because I’ve been there … and sometimes we are SO OBSSESED with analizyng and rationalizing our own DRAMA that the good advice of this blog doesn’t GET IT. We need ‘awarenes’ and be observants of ourselves for a while.
    Rori, thanks indeed!!!

    Morellis – England

  12.  #12Chanel on June 21, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    “It’s like he’s peed on you, and marked you as his territory, and you’re showing his urine stain to the world.”

    wow wow wow…

    I was just about to text my friend-with-benefits guy because no contact has been very hard. I’m so glad I came and read this first LOL!

  13.  #13Chanel on June 21, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    Linda you wrote,

    “Friends for me are people that add to my life and dont ignore, betray, or use you for selfish gain etc etc. ”

    That’s a powerful reminder too. Thank you.

  14.  #14Chanel on June 21, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    “Oh… I forgot this… if I told them I was not interested in being “friends” and they responded with… I am actually interested in being more than that… my response would be….. PROVE IT actions speak louder than words!”

    Linda… I just did this, LOL!

    And just like that, this really great guy took me out on an all-day date in San Francisco. I got a royal tour of North Beach and the historical pubs there and ate really great food. 🙂

  15.  #15searchingwithin on June 21, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    Perfect timing, and that’s all I feel I can relate right now.

  16.  #16Tina on June 21, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    Oh, I feel yucky and peed on. Yucky!. Ewww!. My ex contacted me. He said “we can be friends” I said “I feel uncomfortable being your friend.” I feel intuitively that his offer for “friendship” is a result of him wanting a ‘clean divorce.” He said “we have to talk” I feel intuitively that he means “in person.” I feel the meeting would feel like a “date.” I do not feel to give any more of my time to this man – only through the courts. He asked me all sorts of questions – thank god it was online. I feel there is no mystery about his intentions, perhaps a roll in the sack ew peed on yucky yucky yucky!

  17.  #17JasonSavage on June 21, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    “I think J needs some way to vent this energy. I would use a combination of Rori’s tools, Emotional Freedom Technique, Reiki, and maybe start a blog or a journal. Something to vent it all so that it’s all GONE.”

    This is assuming a lot of work to get it GONE. Savage to think about, but you could do one simple symbolic ritual to cut the heart-strings from this man.

    Out of sight, out of mind, out of heart.

    Now there’s room for the one who’s going to really rock your world to come on in.


  18.  #18Erika on June 21, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    Yeah, Jason, but what I’m saying is that sometimes if I ignore a guy, I actually end up thinking about him MORE. It feels all unresolved.

    And I find for me personally it’s just better and easier to think of all men as open possibilities but know very firmly that I’m holding out for the man on my doorstep with an engagement ring and an offer I can’t refuse.

  19.  #19Erika on June 21, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    And to know very firmly that I am not available for “booty calls” or other forms of casual sex that would reengage my hormonal attachment to a guy …

  20.  #20Tina on June 21, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    I would feel to use Rori’s words ” I feel peed on” then I would go into whatever other feelings messages came up. WONDERFUL! I LOVE IT! I would do this while he was going on about being “friends” IM GOING TO TRY THIS IF AND WHEN MY EX MESSAGES ME AGAIN HEHE LOVE IT!. I feel distrust, I feel anger, I feel rage, I feel sad, I’ll do my best to stay away from “you” messages. You made me feel _________ boohooo! this will surely bring out the blame game. God I feel tired.

  21.  #21Erika on June 21, 2009 at 1:55 pm

    All this talk of “peed on” makes me laugh 🙂

  22.  #22Linda on June 21, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    This post which I love has got me triggered. I just came in from mowing the grass (a thinking time for me) and I wanted to share my experience with remaining open to someone once they have given you silent treatment or disappeared and then started contacting me again. I have encountered this two times in the last 8 months with two different men.

    I agree with Rori. Move on. Dont respond. I didn’t, I responded. It profitted me nothing but more hurt and rejection to date. The last encounter I had with this was unbelievable! The first of the two contacted me last week after 8 months of silence and a cowardly text message break up! He had things at my house I am glad to be rid of them. He indicated he felt badly for the way he departed and asked for forgiveness wishing to reconsile and be friends…. my response was “I threw some of the stuff away because it was in my way what is in the yard is what is left,… move your truck so I can leave…. I had given him so many chances last year.. there were no more. Door closed.

    The second, he was a smooth one. Unlike any other I have encountered…. We met circular dating. I liked him before we met. So much in common, goals, interests, values etc etc. He was warm inviting and caring at first, within 24 hours of him asking me to be his “girlfriend” he withdrew!…I was triggered because of the last relationship. I shut down and was finished or so I thought. I prayed about it all… since that time in early March he has gone back and forth with committment or not to me 5 times. Each time I thought okay we have encountered the last obsticle… but the last was the stopper for me. He was cold and expressionless telling the same story with different wording I have heard 4 time before. My remaining open to him as he bounced all over the place did not lead us to a relationship but instead a callous attitude toward me…..” I have to get my life in order, be sure that I am not “settling” in life (meaning he would be settleing if he were with me)!!! and “I want it all” !…. how demeaning that could have been if I let it. As I walked away.. I said ” this is goodbye”.. he responded “I wouldn’t say that” LOL….. he just did by rejecting me the way he did….

    Here is where I am at with the whole thing….. in order for me to ever be slightly open to a man that has decided I am not “enough” for them that then changes their mind… They will have to go to extra-ordinary measures to prove and convince me that they are worth any of my time or a reponse. A simple thinking about you… miss you.. what cha doin…. etc DOESNT Cut IT…. There was a time when I would held hope about it being a favorable sign, experience has taught me quite the opposite and afforded me the opportunity to become stronger and watch for my Mr Right.. he would never treat me or act like that!

    Walking away, closing a door it is hard but a GOOD hard.
    I just dont want to become a hard, distrusting, uncaring person in the process of it all.


  23.  #23Daria on June 21, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    I feel interested and amused at the being peed on thing. I was wondering just the other day why do people pee on each other… and then I thought o animals do it to mark their territory so that would be like a mark… interesting… makes peeing on people sound not quite so weird… lol

    I like it when my exes text me I take it as arrows to worship my Goddessness the way all men do. If he’s not stepping up to it thats on him…

    I feel interested in FRIENDS with men and women…

    I feel interested in ROMANCE…

    I have so many exes and they all still send me their arrows ( not necessarily all)

    I saw an ex last nite and he just kept going on about how he messed up with me – we were teenagers and this was about 8 years ago – I had a different energy this time with him it felt interesting… I feel like he was not so masculine energy and I feel empowered on how I invite men to be masculine energy now by the way I move and sound…

    I also make a lot of uhmmm … ahhhh… mmmm… relaxation sounds just like in public… and it feels very comforting and I think it really relaxes men. I also do visualizations where all men around me, mine and others, are shooting arrows at the target, me.

    i don’t feel disgusted or angry at my ex anymore, before I had thought I would never sleep with him again because he was not my type anymore (too soft) and I felt dirty. Now I don’t feel dirty I feel so in power of my sexuality and I don’t feel so turned off because I am able to invite him into masculine energy… yay…

    i feel so cool to have sex when I feel like it. I feel so interested in sex in a physical way like hte way it Feels and stuff… i love my sexploration and the way im feeling in it…


    i didn’t have sex with him because i felt sleepy and went home… i don’t even have sex with men because they want to anymore… onyl when i want to because i feel just that turned on… which is very cool to me…

    i feel powerful and different… i feel very Goddesslike…

  24.  #24Tina on June 21, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    I feel if he contacts her again – the message of “feeling peed on” will instantly repel her away from this guy and no longer will she feel pulled to this man lol. It certain is doing it for me.


    Just keep Rori’s words in your head when you are texting back and forth, trust me I feel you will instantly lose whatever feelings you felt for him lol. He’s leaving his scent, his mark oh yucky. I feel this will work for any man. oh my god lol. Im trying to breath in this feeling , yuck I feel a heavy stinky blanket being thrown on my body ugh!. I feel to take a shower lol works like a charm. This is like a “get over it quick – emergancy Rori Raye tool lol.

  25.  #25Daria on June 21, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    If i felt pist/ scared of his texts I would ignore them. If i only felt angry not scared I woudl text back I still feel really angry at you. It’s amazing how men can turn a bad situation around sometimes, even when to us it seems our feelings are unturnable… so taht would give a chance for that to happen… Rori said men can turn around on a dime… yeah they can… like my ex going on about me in his life and our relationship 8 years ago lol…

  26.  #26JasonSavage on June 21, 2009 at 2:12 pm

    “…sometimes if I ignore a guy, I actually end up thinking about him MORE. It feels all unresolved.”

    I advocate resolve through actively ignoring him and simple acts of symbolic detachment.

    What you advocate is not resolve:

    “…NOTHING is more empowering than getting to the point where I actually want the guy back in my life as a friend AND it’s not controlling me. He’s back in my life AND I am already cultivating relationships with other men. For me, that is way more empowering than ignoring him.”

    This is not empowering. You are too afraid to bring things to an end. Too afraid to make a firm decision. Too afraid to dispel an energy that isn’t serving you.

    Convince yourself that having him around as a friend is somehow serving you and you are limiting the ability of your holy relationship to penetrate you to your core. Disempowering.

    Your attention and energy is too spread out. When your dream man steps up to your doorstep (not doormat) to claim you, you better be PRESENT.

    I would love to hear Rori talk about the chronic reluctance people have to just LET IT GO.

    I think it comes down to this:

    A fear of abandonment is what creates this addictive sense of attachment.

    The worst possible outcome would be to be ignored.

    The greatest punishment would be abandonment.

    As long as he’s in my life — no matter the ridicule, humiliation, or abuse — at least I know I’m not being ignored.

    Let it go.

    “Stop talking to him. You don’t need another friend, especially not a MALE friend, and that’s all he wants.”

    What part of “DUMP HIM” don’t you understand?

    Yes, but…

    Jason Savage

  27.  #27Daria on June 21, 2009 at 2:20 pm

    Well Jason Savage,

    That’s great and all… dealing with in my case HUGE fear of abadnoment that has me have difficulties with saying Goodbye… I guess we could embrace this fear.

    However, notice this man is coming to us… why reject him? There’s no need to not accept his arrow…

    Erika is speaking about connecting to exes as friends (or in my case dates) while feeling GOOD about this. This feels good! It’s like circular dating (or in Erika’s case, friendship). There is no more pain!

    It’s not about letting go… or dumping him… HE’s coming towards us… so we can’t let go… if we were to dump him, we would have to still receive the incoming texts…

    Why would we need to BLOCK them and spend so much effort rejecting if we were already feeling GOOD (and friendly) about the man.

  28.  #28Daria on June 21, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    Perhaps having him as a friend IS serving Erika.

    I feel provoked by the subtly patronizing tone … it feels interesting too.

  29.  #29Erika on June 21, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    Lol, I feel amused 🙂

    For me, ignoring a guy is not consistent with my circular dating. I have a bunch of men in my life for whom I feel much fondness and affection, and I cultivate all of those relationships. I see no need to let any man go completely from my life until my man on the doorstep has fully arrived. There is plenty of room for him, when he steps up fully.


    Hooray for your Goddesslikeness. I love your posts recently, so full of life.

  30.  #30alias girl on June 21, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    daria yae! i feel good to read your comment. i let my exes contact me too. and i use feeling messages. and with ex #2 i finally told him no more. i told him to stop contacting me. a week went by he texted me lameness. i used feeling messages back. i feel deepy sad. he stopped texting. then next time he texted about a week later. he said:

    just wanted to say hi. i still have a cold. this sux.

    and i was like wtf planet r you on? omg.

    and i just ignored that text and haven’t had any contact since. but i can feel my energy moved so far from him but i feel good to follow things through until it feels GOOD to walk away. i don’t believe in white knuckling it for me personally. i can just keep using feeling feeling messages and when i say

    i feel deeply sad

    and then just get dropped into thin air.

    and then picked up with

    just wanted to say hi. i still have a cold. this sux.

    ugh. i feel an easiness in how to proceed.

    i feel willing to feel all my feelings in the responses i get from people and the world to my honesty.

    i feel willing to feel Devastated.

    if i stuff the devastation or keep trying to avoid saying my honesty for fear of the DEVASTATING truth of the limted capacity this man has for intimacy then i will remain hooked into a fantasy of the relationship.

    i still feel fondness for him but i feel better choosing someone with more emotional capacity and muscle. i don’t want a girlyman but i don’t want a man who drops me out of a plane to free fall when i say

    i feel deeply sad.

    i feel good about my path to bliss and freedom and emotional responsibilty for my well being and taking care of myself and i feel a little bit miss whatever even when i feel angry. 🙂

    miss whatever. like: oh yeah. i felt angry. i feel i could have handled that better. okey dokey next time i will.

  31.  #31Erika on June 21, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    Also, ignoring for me feels like avoiding. It feels like not facing all the anger, hurt, or whatever. Whereas if I face it, it disappears and good feelings return.

    Many wonderful friendships in my life with men I was once involved with …

    I realize other women may have different experience and feelings about this and decide it’s better for them to cut all ties. As we’ve all talked about before, every woman does what feels good TO HER.

    To me, ignoring doesn’t feel good. I have experimented a lot with this, and it doesn’t. What feels good is getting my “upset” feelings resolved so I feel neutral again.

  32.  #32Erika on June 21, 2009 at 2:43 pm


    Thank you. I just read your comment again, and that resonates very much.

    “However, notice this man is coming to us… why reject him? There’s no need to not accept his arrow…

    Erika is speaking about connecting to exes as friends (or in my case dates) while feeling GOOD about this. This feels good! It’s like circular dating (or in Erika’s case, friendship). There is no more pain!

    It’s not about letting go… or dumping him… HE’s coming towards us… so we can’t let go… if we were to dump him, we would have to still receive the incoming texts…

    Why would we need to BLOCK them and spend so much effort rejecting if we were already feeling GOOD (and friendly) about the man.”

    Why reject him when he’s being sweet to me and when I’m feeling good about things?

    The avoiding and ignoring takes too much effort for me. Wherever possible, I enjoy harmonious communication.

    I like how Daria puts things, both here and when she comments on my blogs. It feels very assertive and authentic and no-BS to me.

  33.  #33JasonSavage on June 21, 2009 at 2:43 pm

    I eagerly await Rori’s response.

    Meanwhile, I have to do some work to provide for my family’s future….

    …time and attention spent productively getting to that actual real-world doorstep…

    …rather than maintaining attachment with exes who would be better served in their own lives by deliberately disregarding my friendship, no matter how much fondness and affection they feel toward me…


  34.  #34Rori Raye on June 21, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    Whoa – what great stuff here! I started writing and couldn’t stop – so new post – ***this link won’t work until the post is published day after tomorrow…Rori

  35.  #35Daria on June 21, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    Good Jason,

    Go do your man thing… and let the openess to fondness and affection from men …stay with us women

    perhaps we are better serving them after all… since they seem to want to Contact us…

    sometimes spending time around a Goddess can help a man … for example she can invite him to own his masculinity…

    I feel annoyed by the subtle patronizing tone again and now I feel a little surprised that I notice it in my post as well…


  36.  #36Erika on June 21, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    Thank you again, Daria.

    Jason, I also feel mildly annoyed at the tone of the post, because what I hear is an implication that I and my male friends do not know how to find mutually beneficial ways of having our relationships.

  37.  #37Erika on June 21, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    I also love Daria’s idea of a Goddess inviting a man to step more fully into his own masculinity … just as many of us here on Rori’s blog have been stepping more voluptuously into our femininity.

  38.  #38Tina on June 21, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    I would much rather feel ignored than peed on. Abandon away lol. yuck yuck yuck. NO NO NO !. I feel my boundries strengthening already. This feels so so powerful, I feel worth, I feel my self worth and anyone stepping/peeing on me is going to feel it too lol. I have a Man/Boyfriend I still have to figure out if he is in fact just peeing on me lol. yuck!. Oh what a wonderful convo we are going to have tonight lol. WHO THE HELL PEES ON A GODDESS!. I feel my strength coming out of the core of my being, from the centre of the earth ARE YOU FK’N CRAZY ! Not so much an all over the place rage feeling, just a WTF ARE YOU CRAZY KINDA FEELING. WOOHOO WHAT A DAY THIS IS GOING TO BE!. Yes, keep circular dating,BUT YOU DONT GET TO FK’N PEE ON ME LOL

  39.  #39Erika on June 21, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Frankly, I feel a little “peed on” by Jason’s comment, lol 🙂

    hahahaha, this is great stuff

  40.  #40alias girl on June 21, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    i feel good to be a goddess which inspires a man to be more masculine which inspires me to be more goddessy for infinity!

    i feel good to have men adore and like daria says to throw arrows of good energy towards me. i feel orgasmic about that. 🙂

    i feel good to experience all my feelings and to share my truth in that moment. i feel freedom. i feel i am skipping the path to bliss and happily ever after.

    i feel like dancing. i feel like DANCING!

  41.  #41alias girl on June 21, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    linda i felt soooo good to read about your higher commitment to self care and goddesshood!

  42.  #42Daria on June 21, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    I feel angry at that woman Rori interviewed the hollywood dating director who said she tried to use feminine energy for business and failed, lost sense of time… i feel like punch her in the face… haha…

    i want to use magical feminine energy for business too yaaay i look forward to feeling good with it

    i feel rebellious

    i also feel a little scared to come out my room hehe… but i WILL…

  43.  #43Chanel on June 21, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    This is just so timely for me, it’s unbelievable.

    My friends-with-benefits who broke up with me because he has feelings for me, just “not enough” feelings (and also because he wanted to try things out with another woman at the time), really wants to be my “friend” again.

    I actually copied and pasted a sentence from Rori about still having feelings for him and not being able to be his friend right now. He has not contacted me since.

    It’s very difficult not to contact him because I miss him. I know if I call him we would go out, have a few drinks, and ooops, end up in the sack again.

    I really miss sleeping in his arms, he held me tightly like I was his teddy bear. I normally can’t sleep that way, but with him I could. I miss waking up with his nose in my ear. I miss him carressing my hair. I miss him pleasuring me as soon as I woke up. I miss him making me breakfast. I miss him being interested and remembering everything I say.


    I’m really curious why things didn’t work out with the new girl. IT’S HARD NOT TO CONTACT HIM!!!–Even though I’m circular dating and am practicing letting men lead (which has resulted in wonderfully romantic surprises and situations) it’s been really hard to let this one go.

    So thanks everyone, your posts are very helpful. Jason, I’m enjoying reading your posts and getting a guy’s perspective on this issue too.

  44.  #44JasonSavage on June 21, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    This is a great discussion.

    I’m not giving anyone golden showers. Not my thing.

    Daria, I am particularly intrigued by your comments.

    Here’s a useful perspective for everyone:

    Consider that this guy who is sending you these communication ‘arrows’ — no matter how nice and friendly — is also sending them simultaneously to many women, to many ex lovers. (Trust me, he is.)

    Consider that this guy is also in a committed long-term relationship while he is investing his time and attention maintaining ‘friendships’ with you and these other ex lovers. (Trust me, he probably is.)

    Now, change the viewpoint, and consider that you are *that woman* and your committed long-term life partner, your man, is investing his precious time and energy in maintaining ‘harmless’ connections with ex lovers that are clearly not over him. For whatever reason he feels to need to continue pulling on these girls’ heart-strings.

    How do you feel?

    You can rationalize that the attention and affection that he is giving all these other women, to keep them invested and attached in some way, has no affect on you and your relationship.

    But does it really?

    That is time, energy, and effort that could be invested in the shared relationship that the two of you have. After all, he claimed you, you have a bond, a committment, and an obligation to put each other first above all else and everybody else.

    As a Goddess, how does this make you feel?

    Do you really feel empowered knowing that he adores his past lovers and can’t let them go?

    Are you encouraging him to feel more masculine by maintaing attachment to past lovers?

    How does the openness, fondness, and affection that he shows his past lovers benefit you?


  45.  #45Chanel on June 21, 2009 at 3:54 pm


    You’re so right.

    My FOB has an ex-girlfriend he’s been off and on with for 10 years… 10 YEARS!

    This is why I broke up with him the first time, I don’t want to be that girl.

    The problem is, it’s so hard to let go… for example, he was the best lover I’ve ever had. Our styles, our preferences, our pace, whatever you want to call it, really meshed.

    Also, we could talk for hours. Things were just really good.

    I’m really scared I’m never going to experience that again. 🙁

  46.  #46Erika on June 21, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    true empowerment is neutrality, Jason. What matters it what a guy’s situation so long as I know and honor my own boundaries. Even after I’m married I plan to keep my guy friends

  47.  #47Rori Raye on June 21, 2009 at 4:00 pm

    This is great – okay – I’m going to let Jason be a man here, get opinionated and give advice…and I’m so glad it’s triggering you here…great practice! Jason – to me most of what you’re saying feels personal to you, and not judgmental – (I appreciate your looking over a comment before posting and making sure it’s not judgmental, because you are very, very helpful, and don’t want what you say to be disregarded because of “tone…”)

    That said…I disagree with your advice to Daria in this way…imagining the “whole” is very nice. I Iike the concept, it feels meaningful, conscious…all that…but at bottom, it becomes way to “in your head.”

    Remember, though you are sensitive, you are a man. You are most essentially in thought. What seems to you to be “logical,” and a logical and helpful process of thinking something through, on a woman doesn’t feel right. A woman has to be way more present in her OWN body, and believe me – all that you say has gone through Daria’s mind and all our minds…and all that really, actually does is mire us deeper in the quicksand.

    This is a great topic in itself. Your masculine energy here is in very stark contrast to the feminine energy. See if you can notice the way it works. See how we instinctively rise up in some way with masculine energy of our own and start putting up defenses and respond with anger? It’s sort of a “Don’t tell me what to feel” thing – and it’s very similar to your male response of “Don’t tell me what to do…”

    I’ll think about this and write some more. Love, Rori

  48.  #48gina on June 21, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    Maybe Jason is saying that we are wasting our time if we are working so hard to remove the pain just so that we can be friends with these guys who don’t want/deserve us. Rather than try to mend, accept the pain and vow to move towards something that feels good. But, Jason, if there is no pain associated with the guy, there is nothing wrong with a girl being his friend. Agreed?
    About the woman in the video: to do business, I do think that a woman has to take on some masculinity to get things done – so I see what that woman was saying. But it’s a shame that she didn’t seem to value femininity. Does she want to be a man? That’s what I don’t like about the results of feminism – it’s like anti-feminine.

  49.  #49alias girl on June 21, 2009 at 4:15 pm

    i feel less interested in debate. i feel good to share my feelings and my experience. what works for me may not wrok for anyone else on the planet. i feel really okay about that.

    i feel really good to share my FEELINGS here. and my experiences. my goddess ascension. my path to bliss. i feel good keeping my Energy where i like it. being responsible for my energy. and i feel good not engaging in debate in times where i just want to share my feelings so as not to being triggered into defensiveness.

    exactly what i was talking about with my recent vow to be hypervigilant with my energy.

    rori thanks for being boy energy sometimes. i feel worried and guilty about you having that responsiblity.

  50.  #50Dagmar on June 21, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    I enjoy your post and I don’t feel they are patronizing in anyway. You bring a much needed male perspective to this forum and I apprechiate your no-nonsense straight-forward wording.
    The only time I ever wanted to be friends with an ex, was when I found myself unable to move forward. The openess I showed towards this men, was only used against me. I felt strung along and used. I don’t even blame the men for that.
    I didn’t feel feminin, or open at all, I felt stupid and I felt easy. Like a puppie dog, that rolls over when the Master wants to rub it’s belly.

  51.  #51Chanel on June 21, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    Well, I’m not having a good day, lol!

    I had a great date yesterday with a wonderful guy. I thought he was more of a feminine-energy guy, but I practiced Rori’s tools and he really took the lead and it was quite romantic. I’m proud that towards the end of the day I told him I was feeling tired, instead of pretending that I wasn’t. I’m proud that I didn’t try to kiss him or grab his hand. I’m proud of us both, I think he’s a feminine-energy guy and I’m a masculine-energy girl and we had a date and we pulled off being a girl and a guy–I know that sounds wierd, but that you all will understand.

    But I woke up pining for the friends-with-benefits boy man who’s no good for me, and I feel confused. Why can’t I just let go? Why am I not thinking about the new guy?

    I can see what Erika is saying. Perhaps it’s like trying not to think about a pink elephant… it’s impossible to tell yourself NOT to think about someone. The process of doing that might actually make it worse.

    I’m trying to make the FOB my muse, like Rori suggested. I know he did teach me a lot.

    I’m feeling disappointed in myself that I can’t move on. I’m feeling sad that my dad and I had an argument on Father’s Day. At least I was able to remember my feeling messages, and it kinda worked, he sort of apologized for the harsh things he had said to me. He did repeat though, that he doesn’t believe that a woman has a right to leave her husband. I’m letting it go.

    I also have a horrible stiff neck today, which is making me miserable.

    My boy-man was good at taking care of me when I wasn’t feeling well, maybe that’s what the trigger is today.


  52.  #52Erika on June 21, 2009 at 4:40 pm

    Perhaps that’s part of what Jason is saying. My experience tho is that pain cannot be avoided. It must be healed. Otherwise the pain will be carried forward into my relationships with new men. That’s part of why, for me, it feels better to keep men in my life. And if all my relationships are healed, then actually I am more able to be present with my primary partner.

    As I see it, if I am avoiding any man or relationship, for any reason, then in some sense that man or relationship owns me. I an not truly at peace

  53.  #53Chanel on June 21, 2009 at 4:50 pm


    I see what you’re saying. The problem with my situation right now is that I know my friends-with-benefits guy just wants to be “friends” because he doesn’t want to commit to never having sex with me again.

    I don’t trust that he’s a real friend. The second time that he broke up with me, he asked me for dating advice with a new girl during the SAME conversation! He had no clue he was breaking my heart.

    I don’t trust him as a boyfriend or a friend. I’m not sure how that relationship can be healed.

    Although he has apologized many times and sent me a heart-felt email with his perspective.

    I wonder if it would be strange to post his email here. It would be nice to get everyone’s perspective. It sounds so genuine.

  54.  #54gina on June 21, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    btw, I LOVE to debate. If I can remain unemotional and get to the heart of the TRUTH of something, I feel a buzz. Like I am articulating from a deep place within me – it’s rational and compassionate. I feel like a WOMAN. The men I love the most love this about me, and others seem threatened. (actually, maybe they all feel threatened, but some are able to appreciate me anyway) If they argue (defensively and irrationally) with me when it’s obvious that I just said something True, I get into ego mode and I feel superior. I lose respect, and it’s done. So do I not share that side of myself with a man? My ideal guy would commend me if I spoke truth, and be able to articulate whatever pieces I was missing. We would be able to discuss and reveal truth to eachother. It wouldn’t be about ego, it would be about the joy of exploring philosophy. Rori, do you think that intellectual pursuits can ever strengthen a relationship?

  55.  #55gina on June 21, 2009 at 5:07 pm

    Erika, if you are able to overcome your feelings for a man by becoming friends with him, kudos to you. I think Jason was calling your bluff – as if it’s simply not possible. It isn’t possible for me, and it isn’t something I’m interested in. If I feel rejected, I don’t generally feel like offering friendship. The only way I can imagine it is if I was holding out hope. But i can sorta kinda see what you mean about managing to neutralize the situation. Neutral feels lukewarm and unattractive to me. Sorta grey. I feel more drawn to Black and White.

  56.  #56ann on June 21, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    love this post & all the comments . have a blown breaker at my house no ac so cant use computer. what is the universe trying to show me?

  57.  #57alias girl on June 21, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    chanel i feel compassion. i feel compassion and love in general as well today. but also for your specific situation chanel.

    i feel a little rockstar but a true rock star would be able to translate rock star skills so other people could use them if they wanted and i don’t feel quite there yet.

    on the other hand i used to feel like i wanted to change the world and now i feel more interested in changing myself and CREATING my own little world and if people want to negotiate and be a part of it and that feels good then to expand my little world to let them in sometimes on some level. but right now i feel good having my own little world. i feel dance feverish.

  58.  #58alias girl on June 21, 2009 at 5:14 pm

    ann it’s trying to show you that your so hot hot hot! that the fuse blew! 🙂

  59.  #59Chanel on June 21, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    Thanks Alias Girl–it’s good to have a place to talk about this stuff. My girlfriends are wonderful, but they really don’t want to hear about the boy man anymore and they absolutely despise him. Even my mom rolls her eyes when I bring him up, lol!

    I really have been thinking about him a lot less. It’s just going to take time I guess.

    I’m wondering if Jodi is doing any better with her situation tody.

  60.  #60JasonSavage on June 21, 2009 at 5:58 pm

    To many, thank you for the encouragement.

    Rori, thank you for pointing out the difference between the personal and the judgemental.

    I would like to point out another key distinction.

    “True empowerment is neutrality…”

    To me, true empowerment is equality.

    “Equality is the antithesis of entitlement. Equality means that neither man nor woman is treated better or regarded more highly than the other, period. With equality, neither partner has rights or privileges superior to those of the other.”

    Maybe this is logicical of me to point it out. But as an INFJ, I FEEL the distinction as well.

    Similarly, equality has little to do with masculine-feminine polarity. We express our gender differences as masculine (doing, thinking, acting) and feminine (being, expressing, recieving) while seeing each other as peers, as equals. In a respectful and reciprocal relationship.

    “As I see it, if I am avoiding any man or relationship, for any reason, then in some sense that man or relationship owns me.”

    Anything you cannot walk away from OWNS YOU.

    Back to the original point that Rori and I agree on – walk away – ignore his communication attempts, and let it heal.

    Chanel, I admire your strength in doing just this. This is the only way the pain can heal.

    Alias Girl — “I just ignored that text and haven’t had any contact since. but I can feel my energy moved so far from him but I feel good to follow things through until it feels GOOD to walk away.”

    When you were responding it didn’t feel good. Even when you text him and say “stop texting me”… he still ever so subtlely owns you… Whatever you can’t walk away from — people, possessions, careers, etc — owns you. Yes, I have a no-nonsense approach.

    Gina — “Maybe Jason is saying that we are wasting our time if we are working so hard to remove the pain just so that we can be friends with these guys who don’t want/deserve us.”

    Yes. Working hard to remove pain is counterproductive. Walk away. The pain will heal on its own without your hardwork. Just like a bruise or a cut heals without your involvement. More importantly, you have now created space for worthy men to come into your life.

    Linda — “I agree with Rori. Move on. Don’t respond. I didn’t, I responded. It profitted me nothing but more hurt and rejection to date.”

    Exactly. Every little piece of communcation is an investment that contributes to attachment. Maintaining contact under the guise of ‘friendship’ is still allowing him to have great influence over your emotions.

    Dagmar — “I felt strung along and used. I don’t even blame the men for that. I didn’t feel feminine, or open at all, I felt stupid and I felt easy. Like a puppie dog, that rolls over when the Master wants to rub it’s belly.”

    Yes. It is disempowering to continue these friendships with ex lovers as harmless as it seems.

    When in relationships, I used to string other women along. To feel desired, to feel adored and appreciated, to keep the current woman on her toes, to feel like there were always other options. I never wanted to close doors. Whatever the reason, it kept me from fully being present with the woman I was in a relationship with. These were all sweet women and the relationships were beautiful and unique. But I would always hem and haw with issues on marriage and children. I knew they were not the one, but I wanted to keep up the fun, and sex, and sense of adventure, and avoid the sense of abandonment that comes from walking away.

    These are lines that alway betray a fear – often mutual — of walking away:

    Let’s just have fun and see where things go.
    Let’s not have expectations.
    Let’s just enjoy the moment while it lasts.
    But the sex is so good!
    But the friendship is so good!

    Guilty. I call BS on my former self. 🙂

    Only when I dropped communication cold with these ex lovers did I gain great clarity. This is when I realized specific visions of my future and my dream woman. This is when I created an opening for her to come into my life.

    I dropped the friendliness, fondness, and affection that I was showing these past lovers. That’s it. Time to move on.

    And I have massive respect for any ex lover that deliberately disregarded my attempts at remaining a part of her life.

    This is a woman I can respect as a peer.

    Energy cannot be destroyed. Instead of having my attention and energy spread all over the place, I have reclaimed it for me. As I said, I’ve gained great clarity because of this – I know exactly why I could never commit before, and I’ve stepped into my masculinity preparing myself for the one who really counts.

    One more thought. It’s not Black vs White. I’m not turning friends into enemies. I’m simply reclaiming my energy and allowing these women to reclaim theirs. There is no hurt feelings, ill will, or animosity. But it’s not all warm, fuzzy, and soft either. It’s just not about the ego.

    This goes far beyond the pleasure-pain dynamics of ego gratification. It’s a surrender into love and freedom at the same time.

    Jason Savage

  61.  #61alias girl on June 21, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    sometimes there are still things that trigger me. what gets Triggered is the Old Trauma. becuase it is still Trapped in my body. It’s like an argument that is still going on even after both parties walk away. the Energy was Not Released.

    and so things that Trigger me today are often (Not always probably not sure) are OLD TRAUMA s. and since emily and i ahve been working together a lot has been released and i feel more clear about what is happening in social dynamics etc.

    not 100% obviously.

    i feel really excited about when emily and i release my TERROR. because that feels like it is still running my life and decisions a little.

    but i feel like dancin dancin dance the night away. i feel like dancin dancin woo dance the night away.

    i feel gooooddd about how i am circular dating and practicing new behaviors and i feel good about how i Chose to experiment in what FEELS GOOD TO ME.

    i need to make mistakes just to know who i am. aw thanks britney.

    dancin yeah dancin woo dance the night away.

  62.  #62alias girl on June 21, 2009 at 6:17 pm

    chanel i keep practicing rori’s tools and the feeling messages and the riffing and the i don’t wants.i got her programs when i could afford them. i share on the blog.

    the exe, the fbuddies, the circular dating guys. the toads, the princes. they shift when i shift. so easily. the flow of circular dating. the only challenging part for me (well not the Only wrong chocie of words)

    funnily enough the more challenging parts of the procees is Choosing my words and FEELING my feelings.

    for me it helps to have the sort of emily for the REALLY BIG feelings. and also i am able to process alot on this blog.


  63.  #63Mercedes on June 21, 2009 at 6:21 pm

    Rori…when speaking with Jason said “You are most essentially in thought. What seems to you to be “logical,” and a logical and helpful process of thinking something through, on a woman doesn’t feel right.”

    Maybe that’s why I like Jason’s thought process so much…we all know I’m WAY into my masculine energy so much of the time.

    I like what you’re saying Jason. Let it go. Don’t respond at all, or…in my opinion…if you’ve already opened those lines and feel the need to say something to end it, I’d say…”You know what? I’m really just not that into you anymore.” and then…don’t respond again.

    So many times men keep texting and calling after they’ve ended things with us…telling us they want our friendship…just to keep us on their stringers. I believe, if we stay “friends” with an ex who has “moved on” but keeps contacting us…well…when things end in his current relationship, he’ll be back and he’ll be wanting sex and he’ll be saying all the right things…and…we’ll start an old pattern.

    Then…when he leaves again, we’ll be confused. What happened? Why did he come back if he was just going to leave again? etc, etc, etc.

    He’s back because he wants to know that if he’s ever “free” again, he’ll know who to call. He wants us to keep a part of him in our hearts. It feeds his ego and it feeds his need to know where his next booty call is coming from.

    I agree Jason. We need to let it go and stop responding.

    Much Love,

  64.  #64alias girl on June 21, 2009 at 6:23 pm

    jason i feel bulldozed with opinions and directives.

    anything YOU can not walk away from owns YOU.

    i feel i am my own person with my own experience and FEELINGS.

    I feel heat rising. ahhh emily says good that’s your fire. 🙂

    i feel wary of people who speak for all of humanity.

  65.  #65gina on June 21, 2009 at 6:25 pm

    I had a friend with bennies for bout 9 months and it was Awesome!! I loved loving him. Sex was so so so good. Oh so very good. Nothing even close to it since then (5 years ago!) And it HURT SO BAD after. I ended it cause I overheard him flirting with another girl, and then he went to a movie with her while I hung out at his house with his roomies while they talked about how he and that girl have had crushes on eachother for years. I knew that he felt he had license to do this because the situation had been reversed (with him at home while I was on a date with the brother of one of his roomies) a few months before. But I felt awful, and I realized that I wasn’t getting respect as the Friend with Benefits. As soon as he came back from the movie, I asked him to talk for a minute and I told him that I didn’t think we should see eachother anymore. A week later, I tried to talk with him to see if he hurt as bad as I did. At that point I wanted him so bad. I woulda been his girlfriend, his wife, his friends with benefits again – anything. I just missed him!! but he just looked me dead in the eye and refused to talk about it. I was pretty persistent, and he just kept saying that we “didn’t have a real relationship.” I left completely broken-hearted. I wanted him to confess his love, and I wanted to be with him SO SO bad (but I didn’t tell him how I felt, either – I just kept explaining why I ended it). Then over the next few months I started to hear about weird stuff he was getting into – alcohol, tattooing himself, fights etc. I intuitively knew that it was his way of coping with losing what we had. About a year laer, he finally did profess his love, and he ended up asking me to marry him. But it was over the phone!! while I was at an ATM! After he had moved across country! I sensed that he always felt unworthy of me, and that convinced me that he was right. He wouldn’t claim me cause he didn’t think he deserved me. So I agreed. I loved the sex. And I wished that he would step up, but he didn’t until we both knew it was too late. He still isn’t quite over it, but I am totally done. I am grateful to know that I am capable of amazing passionate glorious sex, but I am waiting for the real deal with a guy who thinks I’m as great as he is.

    I hope it becomes clear, sooner than later, why your guy played the exact role in your life that he has. I know it’s totally tough! I’m sorry you’re going through it. I wish you both the strength to be honest with yourselves and each other about how much you mean to each other, and make decisions from there.

  66.  #66Erika on June 21, 2009 at 6:32 pm

    one thing very triggering for me is my sense that Jason is talking about a specific male friend of mine. If so I want Jason to know that I don’t let any man tell me what I ‘should’ do in my relationships with other men

  67.  #67gina on June 21, 2009 at 6:40 pm

    I love Jason’s last post. My boss, who i have a slightly scandalous relationship with, keeps saying things like “you pick the date and the time” and then I do pick a time that we can actually hang out outside of work. And he says “possibly…let’s see how things pan out this week. I don’t like to plan more than 2 days in advance.” ugh. He’s totally pulling a former-Jason. He never comes through, and he’s one that i need to sever. Yet keep the job. ugh.

  68.  #68alias girl on June 21, 2009 at 6:51 pm

    i read somewhere that a man’s OPINIONS are as important to himself as a woman’s FEELINGS are to herself.

    since i feel onboard with that theory i feel interested and desiring to respect a man’s OPINIONS and i feel good to have a man caring for my FEELINGS.

    also i feel bad when i overload a man with too many FEELIN MESSAGES at once and i feel overwhelmed when a man overloads me with too many opinions at once.

    like in rori’s speech tool she says to say a little at a time then listen at level 2. (yes? i don’t have that program yet)

  69.  #69Chanel on June 21, 2009 at 7:00 pm


    Wow, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for explaining why on earth a guy does this. You have clarified a lot in my mind and now I can stop asking myself “why?” and “what is he thinking?”.

    Alias Girl,

    I’m just starting with Rori’s tools. They’ve had a great impact, but feeling my feelings when I’m around someone else is very difficult. So is choosing my words. So every date is practice and even if it’s not the best date in the world, I can usually feel proud of having done something Rori-esque after the date. BTW, who is Emily? 🙂

    Hi Gina,

    Wow, thanks for sharing that experience with me. It sounds very painful. It sounds like the timing was off, but it also sounds like you dodged a serious bullet. I’m sure the guy you end up with will be a lot better than this one.

    It is interesting that he called you the way he did. Do you think he will come back into your life again?

    I’m not sure why I had to go through this with this guy. I’m coming out of a 20 year relationship and I’m clueless as to men and dating, so I’m trying to see it as a learning experience. I’m hoping I’ll pay attention to the red flags next time. They were there all along, I just didn’t want to see them.

    I also know this guy was not right for me. I’d really like to find a single daddy who can relate to my life as a parent.

    I’ve met one and I’m hoping he asks me out. 🙂

  70.  #70JasonSavage on June 21, 2009 at 7:17 pm

    This has been a stimulating thread.

    Far more stimulating than the discussions on predominatly male forums.

    “One thing very triggering for me is my sense that Jason is talking about a specific male friend of mine. If so I want Jason to know that I don’t let any man tell me what I ’should’ do in my relationships with other men.”

    ‘Should’ is a thought distortion that a person adopts when they are trying to be self-righteous.

    I reviewed my posts and I never said you or anyone else ‘should’ do anything. If I am otherwise coming across as self-righteous, then I say…… :p

    You are my mirror, and I see the same attitude being reflected back at me. I like it.

    As Rori said, “I’m so glad it’s triggering you here…great practice!”

    Now, I do not know any of your male friends and I assure you that I am not referencing anything or anyone specific. I will say that whatever is being triggered for you is going to help you. Notice it, feel it, tap into it. Play with it.

    Awareness is curative.

    Mercedes — “When things end in his current relationship, he’ll be back and he’ll be wanting sex and he’ll be saying all the right things…and…we’ll start an old pattern.”

    Yep. Gotta walk away. Keeping that door open no matter how friendly, nice, or harmless it seems is inviting him to play with your heart-strings again some day.

    Gina — “And he says ‘possibly…let’s see how things pan out this week. I don’t like to plan more than 2 days in advance.’ ugh. He’s totally pulling a former-Jason.”

    Yep. This is how we behave. This is how we keep you attached and invested.

    Alias Girl — “anything YOU can not walk away from owns YOU.”

    This is a masculine statement. And also true.

    If I say, “I feel and believe deep in my heart and also based on my past experiences that anything you find yourself unwilling to walk away from subtlely has the effect of ownership over you and your behavior” doesn’t make it any less true.

    I could say just think about it.

    But that is masculine.

    But notice how your are FEELING it. It resonates with you. It triggers you.

    Anything that triggers you is based in truth.

    Do you have the audacity to question my veracity?


    I appreciate everyone’s wonderful comments.


  71.  #71gina on June 21, 2009 at 7:32 pm

    When he proposed marriage (ha! such a ludicrous thought) we were “friends” – talking on a pretty regular basis after being out of touch for a while. He came back to town and told me he loved me, and i just nodded my head. I had nothing to say. We stayed loosely in touch for a while. He almost came to visit me while i lived in NY, but at the last minute i asked him not to cause i was seeing someone. He kept calling, but eventually I asked him not to contact me anymore. He kept on, and I didn’t respond. He still writes me on facebook, and texts me from time to time. He texted me a couple weeks ago on my B-day, but I haven’t responded to him at all in about a year. When he does contact me, he tries to be cool, as if he just wants to be friends (and as if I’m not ignoring him. That dishonest communication is a turnoff). Even though i know he has feelings for me, i still feel like he isn’t really stepping up. Like he’s hanging on to a fantasy cause he isn’t willing to take responsibility for his reality, if that makes sense. I feel like the experience was a gift from the universe, but the guy is not a match for me.
    That experience was sad cause we weren’t honest about the depth of feeling. Way too late, he told me that he never wanted to be friends with benefits – that he thought the whole thing was really fkd up. That surprised me, cause i thought it was so perfect. I learned to be completely honest, and to not let a whole relationship happen without talking about what’s actually going on.

  72.  #72Erika on June 21, 2009 at 8:12 pm

    hey Gina,

    Neutral once sounded boring to me, too. But now I see it as the launching pad for joy (which is different than the fleeting ups we get when something specific happens).

    Neutral has also been the launchpad for marriage propositions. I’ve had five serious ones and one semi-serious one in the past 15 months, and they all came in situations where I was not (or no longer) infatuated with a guy. Appreciation is magnetic, infatuation pushes guys away because no one likes being on a pedestal.

    One of the marriage propositions came recently from a guy I met a couple of years ago. We’ve gone through every phase, and if I had written him off like some people are recommending on this thread, our relationship never would have flowered.

    I actually really, really disagree with Jason’s description of a man’s thought process. Perhaps that’s true for Jason, but I have found that the more I assume the best about men, the more they come through for me in all kinds of unexpected ways.

    Also, and again I’m not judging what anyone else does, but this is another area where my “no casual sex” position helps me out a lot. It is very easy for me to allow a man back into my life as a friend because I know there is zero chance I’ll have sex with him and get hormonally hooked unless he commits to me.

    This allows an instant reframe. He is still attracted to me, but the only way he can have me is to step up fully. For me, that is the end of infatuation. He is on a level playing field with all the other guys I’m circular dating … until one steps up that I want to say “yes” to …

    I don’t know if this will resonate with anyone else. I often seem to be a minority view on here.

    Also, about the “pink elephant” … yes that’s exactly what I mean. In fact, if a woman wants to get over a guy quickly, I recommend exactly the opposite of “forget him.” I recommend forcing yourself to obsess about him relentlessly … because you will soon get so bored with obsessing that you’ll wonder why you were ever obsessed.

    When I say to myself “I have to get over this guy,” there is a rebellious part of me that will hold on indefinitely. When I give myself permission to get over it whenever I get over it, I usually find that I’m already over it.

    Magic. 🙂

  73.  #73alias girl on June 21, 2009 at 8:15 pm

    i feel bad jason but i may not respond even if you address me personally.

    i feel safer and more free when people speak of their own experience and formulated ideas and how these ideas relate to them and their decisions.

    i feel awful when people tell me their truth is a universal truth. i feel like a non person and my own experience and Feelings mean nothing.

    i feel ick when people tell me how i feel or what is true for me. i feel ick when people goad me to defend my self or prove something. i am a female. i am a goddess. i feel good feeling my feelings and letting men stand in my glorious mist.

    i feel delightful.

  74.  #74gina on June 21, 2009 at 8:28 pm

    I agree that not having sex puts you in a position to do pretty much whatever you want without giving up a bunch of power. I didn’t have any for a long time, but then i felt like I was missing out on LIFE! Then I had some with a guy that felt cheap. and I had some that felt blah, and I’m back to waiting for the right one. Feels good and powerful. I think whatever is done without force is all good.

  75.  #75Erika on June 21, 2009 at 8:31 pm

    I also want to point out that it sounds like this guy has been out of J’s life for quite some time … and yet … she is still not over him.

    I’ll speak bluntly here: the problem is not him. It’s her. She needs to heal the pain within herself, and it’s not healing apparently, even with him out of the picture.

  76.  #76Erika on June 21, 2009 at 9:25 pm

    Chanel, you said:

    “I see what you’re saying. The problem with my situation right now is that I know my friends-with-benefits guy just wants to be ‘friends’ because he doesn’t want to commit to never having sex with me again.”

    But what if you commit to never having sex with him again? would that feel different? Then instead of being the “victim” of what he wants, you have decided clearly what you don’t want. All the power is now back in your hands, where it belonged in the first place.

  77.  #77Chanel on June 21, 2009 at 9:52 pm


    Yes I hear what you’re saying about him holding onto a fantasy. I wonder if he uses this to keep emotionally distant from other women. If he lets go of you, then he has no excuses… I’m not saying the case, but I’ve seen both men and women do this.

    You’re right, honesty is very important in relationships. I’m trying really hard to speak my truth with the new guy. I’m certainly not blasting him with feeling messages yet, but I do get 2-3 of them out there and it’s amazing the impact that has… but the knee-jerk reaction is to pretend everything is ok.


    I just know that he’s going to let me down as a “friend”. I’m going to agree to be friends, then he’s going to go along with it in the hopes of getting in my pants. When he doesn’t, he’s going to disappear as a friend–he’s going to dump me again. I don’t want to be dumped again.

    But we do hang out within the same social circle, so I will see him again. It sucks.

    I’d really like to know more about how you date with your “no casual sex” position. It seems to me that men are expecting sex after about 3 weeks or so. I love sex but I’m obviously not able to handle it without getting very attached.

    Are you holding out until you get a proposal? Or until you get a commitment for exclusivity?

    What do you say when it comes up?

    I’m not even officially divorced yet. I’m looking for a long term relationship but not marriage. I’m not sure how to go about doing that at this point. Much of Rori’s advice is about how to get the ring. I’m certainly not ready for a ring at this point.

    I’m going to try your trick of forcing myself to obsess. In fact I’m going to stare at his picture right now (that already sounds boring, ahahahaha!).

  78.  #78Chanel on June 21, 2009 at 9:55 pm

    Well, I am officially through with my divorce, it’s just that in the state of California it takes 6 months before you get your paperwork and are legally divorced.

  79.  #79Jody on June 21, 2009 at 10:54 pm

    Chanel, Thank you for thinking of me today!!!! This post hit me hard! IVE BEEN PEED ON ALLOT, NOT JUST BY ONE MAN, BUT SEVERAL! that just sucks!!!!

    Jason, I Thank you for your insight! what you cant walk away from owns you! words to live by! You touched on abandonment issues, fear of letting go.. I felt my heart sink, it triggered me. The light came on, and memories came flooding back. Fear! I am afraid of being left, of loss, not measuring up. Thank you Jason! I can face my fears, now that I know what they are. Also I thank you for sharing your past! I get it now!!! I dont have to wonder what he is thinking, or why he says one thing and does another, its about his ego, his self esteem, he isnt happy with his self either!!! he is looking for my validation!!! lol!! WOW THAT FEELS SOOOOOO MUCH BETTER! I feel in control now!!! I am able to love, be vunerable, express my feelings, cry, laugh, feel joy, and he is looking for me to validate him as still being sexy and desireable! This is hillarious! He doesnt feel so unattainable now!!!!!

  80.  #80Nikita on June 21, 2009 at 11:28 pm

    3 weeks???? I’ve even heard 3dates, that feels so uncomfortable to me. I feel like women set the expectations and the bar feels too low to me. ” I only have sex inside of an exclusive relationship”. Smile
    I feel very happy saying this. I feel good when I express this early on in the dating process. I feel as though my boundaries become visible. I feel authentic and I feel as though i’m making room for the man to do his thinking. I feel confident enough to say it and I feel like he instantly likes me more. I feel much better, he’s much more inclined to call afterwards since it is already a relationship. I feel protected.

  81.  #81Erika on June 21, 2009 at 11:31 pm


    Thanks for that. I feel less alone in my views 🙂


    About 1.5 to 2 years ago, I used EFT to eliminate a huge number of my limiting beliefs about men, including my belief that they would lose interest if I didn’t have sex. Haven’t had the problem since.

    In fact, I believe it’s one of the best kept secrets of dating that men actually like it when they say no. And I believe they especially like it when, as Nikita says, we are super transparent about our boundaries and what we want and don’t want … that’s when they can feel us.

  82.  #82JasonSavage on June 21, 2009 at 11:41 pm

    I have been not-so-kindly asked to not contribute anymore here. Apparently my “communication arrows” were a bit too sharp.

    So I am going to take my own advice and walk away.

    By the way…

    “I recommend forcing yourself to obsess about him relentlessly … because you will soon get so bored with obsessing that you’ll wonder why you were ever obsessed.”

    …I played with this and it is DARK.

    …it basically creates an obsession that wasn’t there…

    …but the author knows this and I was baited into trying it out….

    So, once again I am walking away from that too.

    Best of luck to everyone,


  83.  #83gina on June 21, 2009 at 11:52 pm

    Aaaw! I’m sad that Jason is leaving. I hope you make another appearance soon, Jason.

  84.  #84gina on June 22, 2009 at 12:13 am

    Erika, I can’t seem to find the words to articulate this sense that I have that the 5 men who proposed are an example of what Jason meant by spreading yourself too thin. I know that was a very triggering statement he made, but here’s how it translates for me in terms of feelings: the thought of a bunch of proposals feels heavy and ugh to me. When I think of circular dating, I think of energy, and sort of a revolving door. And then, eventually, one guy won’t get out, and if I don’t want to kick him out, he gets exclusive access to my door (hehe). I don’t want a bunch of men loitering, jamming up the door, annoying me, making it unclear as to who is there and why, and whether I want them around.

  85.  #85gina on June 22, 2009 at 12:30 am

    and you rejected the proposal. So I would want them outta there to make room for the one I’d say yes to.

  86.  #86gina on June 22, 2009 at 12:44 am

    But, Erika, you were right when you pointed out that time obviously didn’t heal her wounds. I guess cause she didn’t really walk away, even when they were out of contact. I like Jason’s no nonsense approach about moving away from it rather than going deeper into it. I definitely have a tendency to go deep – I associate that approach with borderline obsessive compulsive behavior. It feels dark murky and heavy. Moving away and moving on feels light and bright and healthy. It feels optimistic. I feel a couple of men just falling away from me as a result of this discourse! thanks to all!

  87.  #87alias girl on June 22, 2009 at 1:59 am

    chanel, emily vanhorn is the trauma release therapist i go to. 🙂 i feel happy to read that view dates as successful just for practicing the tools. me too. i feel like that in my life too.

    i feel bad jason got himself kicked off siren island. i feel bad when things end poorly. i feel relieved a little though too. i felt some intense energy. i wonder if i come off too intense sometimes. i know i do. we are all learning. i feel good to take care of myself and wish the best for others and create my little world and if people want to negotiate and it feels good to be a part of it etc. etc etc like i said earlier.

    i feel good rori let jason have one last post it seems.

  88.  #88Tina on June 22, 2009 at 4:13 am

    Thinking something through – for me makes – uh sense. I feel something through makes more sense. I feel defensive when I talk with my ex. I learned from people around me that “being friends” with my ex is the way to go, however I dont feel right about this. The resistance is there, my feelings of defending myself kicks in to high gear. He will make a “you” statement when I am “pretending’ to be his friend, this most likely will lead to me defending myself , like a I’m doing some kind of “convincing” behaviour. My, my how the tables turn. Re-opening the wound is how Rori put it, It is reopening a wound. Pretending to be his friend for me feels angry, I feel angry . I feel angry for allowing him to reopen a wound – although healed, just feels slightly tender to the touch. I am learning to use “feeling messages” oh and I love this feeling that I have, the power to use my feelings messages. My ex did step up and want to marry me and make me his “forever” however, punching his fist through the gyp rock wall next to my head, after refusing sex with him feels really scary, I feel terrified and it feels awful. I feel no amount of “thinking it through” logically would have got me out of that situation. Love was not my motivator for marrying him, I felt insecure and worthless, theses feelings are so easily confused with love , for me anyways.

  89.  #89Daria on June 22, 2009 at 4:19 am

    I feel amused Jason was asked not to post. I wonder if Rori or Ericka asked him or who …

    As a Goddess, I feel men are at my beck and call. Just like we can ask Jason to leave we can ask our other suitors to leave when we want to commit to the one… just like we can say when we want to have sex…

    I feel like if I am leaning back men are leaning in to see how I am feeling because I set the baseline feeling for the interaction…

    I feel annoyed that a charming guy got me feeling triggered about sex and didn’t come through for me all the way and I feel a little disappointed…

    I feel interested in men that can better my life…

    I feel so Goddesslike in the world…

  90.  #90Tina on June 22, 2009 at 5:52 am

    My defensiveness feels to me like picking up my weapons to fight, I have come to learn that fighting/competition/weapons sharpening is masculine. I feel defenseless in the arena, men are able to shut down during these times , I am not. I can “pretend” to shut down during these times by hurling back insults, all sorts of examples of weapons sharpening, when I sit and think about it long enough.

  91.  #91Jody on June 22, 2009 at 6:05 am

    Jason, I would love to hear more from you!!! my Email is, you really helped me, see things differently. I value your insight!!!


  92.  #92Mercedes on June 22, 2009 at 6:31 am

    I’m going to use the word “we” here because I’m referring to women in general and applying it specifically to this blog. Sorry if that triggers anyone but I don’t know how else to word it. In this particular case, I was in total agreement with Jason but I would have liked to see how best to handle it if I wasn’t in agreement with him and if I was one of the “we” that triggered him. So…I’ll use “we” and hope for the best.

    This is so frustrating! We finally had an opportunity to learn here. We had a man…telling us what he thinks from a man’s point of view. He got triggered and reacted exactly the way men react when we trigger them. Mistakes were made in the way he was talked to and the way he talked to us. And…instead of being led through it with real examples of how to be soft and strong…telling him how we feel…being taught how to bring him to us…we kicked him out! It’s so hard for me to see this perfect opportunity to learn and grow being thrown out the window.

    In real life, we don’t always agree with what our men say/feel/think. There’s going to be conflict. There’s going to be words that are harsh and upsetting and sarcastic…on both ends. It’s going to happen…all long term relationships have conflict at one time or another.

    Rori: Why didn’t we get the opportunity to hear/see you show us how to bring Jason out of his feelings of being triggered and into understanding and appreciating our feminine ways of thinking/feeling? Why didn’t we use this one chance we had a real conflict with a real man in a real situation to really see your tools in action? Why were we just now taught that when things get tough we should kick him out? Why weren’t we shown where exactly it was that he got triggered and what we could have said instead to ease the conflict and (though we would never all agree with Jason and he would never agree with all of us) make things good.

    We had an opportunity to have a man commenting here…from a man’s point of view…and we rejected it. We’re taught a lot about how to deal with each other appropriately when we trigger another woman on this blog. You tell us what to say and what to do to stay feminine with each other here. Why couldn’t you do that with Jason? Why…when it’s a man (which is why we’re all here) do we throw it away instead of learning from it? His “tone” wasn’t what we want. Well…in real life, with real men, their “tone” isn’t always what we want. Why couldn’t you show us how to change that tone and bring him closer to us?

    I’m so frustrated by this. A chance to see how your tools work. A chance to show them to us in action. A chance to change conflict into a respectful debate. It’s gone. Jason said in one of his comments that he liked the discussion. He’s never said that in any other post here. He liked the way things were going. We were challenging him. We were speaking a language he understood. At some point we crossed a line. And instead of being taught how to turn that back around and get him to enjoy discussing the issue with us again..we told him to leave. That feels wrong. It feels counter-productive to what we’re all here for.

    Jason: If you’re still reading this, please click on my name and make comments on my blog. I have a lot of examples and “rules” about how to deal with men. I’d absolutely LOVE it if you let me know what you think. If you’d weigh in on those rules and tell me if you see them as appropriate or a waste of time or even if you think something would drive a man away or insane. I’m not afraid of conflict so I’d welcome any disagreement you might have. I’d take it as an opportunity to learn from you. Most of the women here know I rarely speak in feeling messages, so you won’t get a lot of that, but you will see a very outspoken woman telling everyone what she thinks. Maybe my blog would be a better fit for your style (which I like by the way…I feel a challenge when a man gets sarcastic and yet makes a good point…and I do like a challenge). Anyway…consider it…and I hope to hear from you soon.

    Much Love,

  93.  #93Erika on June 22, 2009 at 6:42 am

    I feel a little mystified by what happened on Siren Island when I went to sleep, but I have faith that everything will work out fine.

    Also, going into obsession for me is no different than going deeply into anger or fear, etc. If I get really present with it and explore it, for me it usually dissolves. EFT helps me a lot with this.

    Hey Gina,

    Thanks for your comment, it’s not triggering. I don’t view guys wanting to marry me as heavy. But it’s funny, at one time it made me uncomfortable because I assumed if I didn’t say “yes” then I was somehow hurting him. But I’m not. I let go of that guilt and began to realize that they ENJOY pursuing and most don’t take it personally if I don’t say yes right away.

    Also, for all I know, one of these guys could still turn into my mate. They are not just “guys” to me. They are dear friends and wonderful people. As I change, my guys evolve also. They become more attractive. I’ll say “yes” when it feels right to say yes. What I notice is that I seem to be getting closer and closer to it feeling right.

    And Gina, yeah, what I’m saying is that if I walk away but still don’t heal, for me I haven’t solved the problem. I’ve only “gotten over him” when I can communicate normally with him as a friend and not be upset about it. That’s how I know that I’ve actually healed the pain. Now, can I heal in the other person’s absence? of course. It’s just for me I tend to heal faster if I’m able to stay in touch with him. I’m facing it instead of avoiding it.

    I’m okay with being a minority view about this. I feel happy to be comfortable with a different perspective.

  94.  #94Erika on June 22, 2009 at 7:13 am


    Thank you for that, which feels very moving to me and resonates deeply.

    I was getting triggered by many of Jason’s comments yesterday, but I see that as an opportunity for mutual healing. Like you, I would want to communicate through the conflict to find a good space again.

    One thing that triggered me a little even this morning was his statement “…it basically creates an obsession that wasn’t ther…but the author knows this and I was baited into trying it out….”

    The reason I find this triggering is that I don’t hear Jason taking responsibility for his own emotions. I also hear him assuming some sort of malicious or manipulative intent on my part, which I don’t have. I was trying to share a “tool” that I have used with success to face and erase dark emotions. I don’t feel seen or heard if someone thinks I’m trying to manipulate them. I lost interest in any sort of game playing a long time ago. My intent is to contribute to my own and other people’s well being.

  95.  #95DocK on June 22, 2009 at 7:14 am

    Jason is a man – he spoke the way that men speak and what I have trouble with is responding to a man with feminine voice when he is speaking with masculine voice – but that is the very practice, practice, practice I need. I know I/we feel more comfortable when we frame things from our own point of view in this forum, but that isn’t what men do. I feel lost opportunity here.

    The men do try to come back and my experience is guys seem to think that if they have ever had sex with you, even once, that is an option even if you haven’t seen him in 6 years. I am always feeling incredulous by this. Maybe why it can be tough to be friends with guys after the over.

    Back to masculine energy…ran into a guy from my dance class (he’s straight, his wife and sister-in-law take class as well) at Starbucks. We had wonderful talk and funny because I kept reminding myself to lean back and he leaned forward so far I thought table would fall on top of me. We talked about Rori tools and he really said he felt she was on target.

  96.  #96Erika on June 22, 2009 at 7:22 am

    hey DocK, I hear you requesting practice, and that resonates with me a lot too. Let’s stay with the energy with a real live man and see where we can go with that. You said:

    “The men do try to come back and my experience is guys seem to think that if they have ever had sex with you, even once, that is an option even if you haven’t seen him in 6 years. I am always feeling incredulous by this. Maybe why it can be tough to be friends with guys after the over.”

    I see that as practice too. So a guy wants sex from us? So what … what if we can see it as flattering and tell him “I feel flattered” but also realize that it isn’t going to feel good to us afterwards, so we say firmly NO.

    Or say, “I know it would feel good in the moment to have sex with you, and I also know I’ll feel crappy tomorrow if we don’t end up back together, so I’m not going to have sex with you.”

    That is great practice, don’t you think?

  97.  #97Mercedes on June 22, 2009 at 7:42 am

    Erika: You said: “One thing that triggered me a little even this morning was his statement “…it basically creates an obsession that wasn’t ther…but the author knows this and I was baited into trying it out….”

    (…)I also hear him assuming some sort of malicious or manipulative intent on my part, which I don’t have. ”

    Your words were wonderful! I saw that trigger you (and I can see why…you’ve probably seen me lose it when someone suggests I’m doing something or being someone I’m not…or even when my words are misunderstood and I try to rephrase) so I completely understand why you would be triggered by that comment.

    And here’s where I belive men differ from women soooo much and where I thought Rori would guide us. Your words were: “The reason I find this triggering is that I don’t hear Jason taking responsibility for his own emotions.”

    I don’t think men generally do take responsibility for their emotions…at all. I think most of the time, they don’t even recognize them. I don’t see Jason as a man who’s going to change his words into feeling messages for us. That’s soooo why I would have liked to see Rori guide us through that. Men aren’t going to communicate the way we want them too. It’s not going to happen, so…why weren’t we taught how to respond to them when they communicate the way they do without hoping to change them? (that’s my question to Rori, not you Erika). This man isn’t going to discuss how the topic or the comments made him feel. He very logically and sarcastically and directly told us what he thinks. I would have loved to see Rori, in action, showing us how to use our words and our feelings to deal with that communication style we see in men.

    There were actually a few comments made by Jason that make me wonder if he’s my bf…LOL.. They speak alike anyway, they have the same thought process and even phrase things the same…I showed this blog to J…he’s seen it trigger me…he could very well have remembered and come back here. So…Jason…if you’re my J (and have changed the meaning of the first initial)….I still want you to comment on my blog…

    Much Love (espeically if Jason is my J…lol)

  98.  #98PRPG on June 22, 2009 at 7:53 am

    This is a very interesting thread indeed. I feel disappointed that Jason was asked to leave-his comments made a lot of sense to me and I thought it was good to get triggered anyway, and learn something from why we’re so triggered instead of getting petty. I feel angry that a guy shows up on here who is mature enough to contribute some very thought provoking stuff in a non-threatening (if a lttle patronising) way gets asked to leave…..

  99.  #99Erika on June 22, 2009 at 7:56 am

    “I don’t think men generally do take responsibility for their emotions…at all.”

    hey Mercedes, thanks for your persistence about this cuz I agree about us practicing with Jason. I feel more optimistic than you do though about men taking responsibility for their emotions. Perhaps this is because I’ve been in so many non-violent communication classes with so many men to realize they are not all that different from us, and the programmed “logical” way most of us were taught to think is as painful for them as it is for us.

    Re Jason’s comments, the same “manipulative” intent that I heard him reading into my comments, he was also attributing to other men. An example:

    “When in relationships, I used to string other women along. To feel desired, to feel adored and appreciated, to keep the current woman on her toes, to feel like there were always other options. I never wanted to close doors. Whatever the reason, it kept me from fully being present with the woman I was in a relationship with. These were all sweet women and the relationships were beautiful and unique. But I would always hem and haw with issues on marriage and children. I knew they were not the one, but I wanted to keep up the fun, and sex, and sense of adventure, and avoid the sense of abandonment that comes from walking away.”

    Now that statement by itself didn’t bother me because Jason is speaking for himself. However, for him to attribute the same intent to other men felt upsetting to me.

    Maybe men reach out to us because they miss us. Or they have an intuition to call. Maybe when they come back into our lives it’s an opportunity for healing and reconciliation.

    One of my marriage proposal guys would pop up every so often in just this way. Was he “stringing me along”? No, obviously not. He likes me. I like him. We have learned a lot from each other.

    What triggered me the most was the feeling that Jason’s comments were what I call “motivational through fear,” i.e., if you don’t drop him cold, he’s going to use you or take you for granted, etc.

    I don’t like motivating myself or anyone else through fear. I much prefer to reframe things so that I can see the positive side.

  100.  #100DocK on June 22, 2009 at 8:04 am

    Hi Erika – you’re right – practice with live guy is best. That’s why enjoyed the conversation with guy at Starbucks although I have to say I find him to be much more evolved than most men I know so that was kind of easy.

    I like your wording for old flames and sex although I have no problem turning them down – just think doing it the way you say is better.

    Many years ago I got together with a guy I hadn’t seen in 6 years and thought it would be OK after so long – that he wouldn’t be looking for anything. He tried to hold my hand, and had brought me flowers and stuff – ick – and then, very business-like asked, “so, you remember my sister, she lives in the house I used to live in and has made herself scarce for the evening, would you like to spend the night with me?”


    I said no, in not such nice feeling messages.

  101.  #101Mercedes on June 22, 2009 at 8:12 am

    Yes Erika. I agree so much. You’re not going to turn your feelings and thoughts on this into the way Jason or I or anyone else thinks/feels. And I don’t think you should. You have a different perspective based on your own wonderful experiences and I love that you can tell them here. That’s exactly why I wish we had had more time with him. Seeing how we can say what we think/feel and allow a man to do the same and allow for those triggers and work through them and all of that would have been very cool.

    I don’t think my issue with this is so much what is the “right thing to do” with regard to staying friends or not staying friends or how to let go in the most appropriate manner. My issue (trigger if you will) has a lot more to do with the fact that a man has a different point of view than us and Rori taught us to cut him loose rather than work through it. I’m disappointed in that part…not at all in your feelings on this. I love it when we don’t agree because it gives us the opportunity to learn from the thoughts, feelings and experiences of others.

    Much Love,

  102.  #102Aldonza on June 22, 2009 at 8:25 am

    Wow, what a fascinating thread! Especially the part where Jason was voted off Siren Island. For one, I found his comments incredibly triggering, but safely triggering in a forum like this where our collective experiences and support were there to soothe me. It’s also helpful for me to view all of this “from the other side”.

    I’m also triggered by the cold advice of “dump him!” This is a question to Rory, if a man reappears with anything less than a ring in hand, is the advice to dump him? This feels very cold and not all that realistic to me. Frankly, I’d wonder at the sanity of a man who reappeared that way, and I’d equally wonder at the sanity of the woman who accepted that ring.

  103.  #103Aldonza on June 22, 2009 at 8:27 am

    To Chanel about your FWB:
    You’re doing the right thing. This guy had all the best parts of you without giving you the best parts of him. The only way he might ever realize that is for you to not be there, in any way, shape or form. I also identify strongly about the fear of never having anything that good again. I went from a relationship with strong personal chemistry into a series of disappointing relationships. I’m still living that real fear of not finding that chemistry again. I’m also living that real for *of* finding that chemistry again and having it trigger me the same way.

  104.  #104Tracy on June 22, 2009 at 8:37 am

    Interesting thread….I feel a bit confused though about the masculine/feminine reaction to how to handle a guy coming back…I also feel that dumping a guy flat out is cold and honestly from my past it never really worked out well for me….I have been practicing with bridging and dating other men along side and i feel that its easier that way because eventually i no longer feel hang up on the guy and i can heal and i feel better about myself….It has a soft feeling to it and i feel more like myself doing it this way….
    It was interesting though listening from a guy point of view and i feel that in certain circumstances going turkey may help…..I feel that i can put that in mind as well…though it feels masculine to me…

  105.  #105Chanel on June 22, 2009 at 10:38 am

    Hi Jason,

    I’m also sorry to see you go, you gave me a real “aha” moment. My email is and I would like to pick your brain some more if you have the time/inclination.


    You gave me much insight as well, thank you. I look forward to hearing more about how you manage to keep your boundaries. I admire your self confidence as you date. Can you give me some? 🙂


    We’re in a similar place right now. I had a setback yesterday, but I’m feeling stronger today. How are you doing?


    I’m with you, I was enjoying the live interaction with a real man and it was getting very real… down to the man starting to feel manipulated when the woman is not being manipulative. This has happened so many times in my life and it’s very frustrating. I think I will go back and re-read the thread to try to figure out how and why this happens. That seems to be a huge male trigger.

    So yes, it would have been nice to learn how to resolve that conflict, but I also understand that this blog is supposed to be a safe place where people can work on their issues without getting triggered *too* much. So I respect whatever decision was made.


    Thank you for understanding me. It IS scary! Like you I’ve met other men since this ended, and they are BETTER men. We just haven’t been clicking in the same way. My FWB and I were very much in synch. It makes me sad that he would throw that away so carelessly… but then again, he doesn’t want to close the door, he’s not stupid, lol! I think he’s quite shocked I’m not letting him play the *friends* card anymore. He’s had a string of women like me and I guess they keep him around. He’s not used to being told “no”. He’s also not used to being told how much his behavior is hurtful. I’ve made it a point to let him he hurt me, because I know 2 of his ex girfriends, and I know he has hurt them too.

    No contact works better for me. I feel better when the focus is on ME, my kid, my life, my goals. As soon as I talk to this guy, my focus goes on HIM, I forget myself completely. This is not healthy for me and I’m just not strong enough to talk to him and keep the focus on myself.

    I’m hoping to get there some day, but I’m not there yet…

  106.  #106Rori Raye on June 22, 2009 at 10:45 am

    Which video? WAs tht Cherry? We don’t “take on” the masculine – we HAVE masculine energy in us, and we let that express itself just like we do our feminine energy. It’s a matter of WHERE – and in service to WHAT…Love, Rori

  107.  #107Rori Raye on June 22, 2009 at 10:51 am

    Loved this post, Jason – and your INFJ is same as my husband (and my daughter, too… to my ENFP) , so I get you (at least as well as I get him…)Rori

  108.  #108Nikita on June 22, 2009 at 10:55 am

    I feel excited following this. Some of it feels too thinky to me. I also really feel the power of a man to rattle women. It feels funny and a little sad. I feel really good reading alias girls comments. She feels softer and softer to me and yet firm. I feel confident with that sort of beingness. It feels disarming and It feel practically impossible to fight with her. I feel really good reading something that draws me in. I feel safe, I feel it’s “attack free”, and it feels very feminine. I feel curious about what the sirens do/say next 🙂 I feel indifferent about Jason. I feel appreciative of him sharing and attempting to protect us. But it also feels limiting and impatient to me. It feels cookie-cutter/one size fits all. I feel fine being on good terms with my exes. But I feel no desire to be with them. I will not lose their numbers, I feel good to know I can call them for help moving something heavy 🙂 I feel good calling to ask advice about what they specialize in( gadgets, culture, computers,etc. We don’t hang out, but I know they are cool enough with me for the occasional “hey,”……. But if I really felt broken-hearted I would feel frustrated. I’ve never done friends with bennies so maybe I can’t relate.

  109.  #109gina on June 22, 2009 at 11:07 am

    I felt super annoyed last night when Jason left. I agree with all of what Mercedes had to say about why we missed a good opportunity. BUT, Mercedes, I feel frustrated at the way you are accusing Rori when we don’t even know what happened. I’ve never seen Rori do anything like this before, so if she did ask him to leave, I’d like to know why.

  110.  #110Nikita on June 22, 2009 at 11:10 am

    Yeah, friends with bennies feels inauthentic. It feels like one person always wants more. How can I feel friendly if I can’t fully support his growth? I feel good talking to my real male friends. I feel happy when they get engaged or meet a new girl they’re crazy about. I feel happy seeing them follow their bliss. If I was in a FWB situation I don’t feel like a real friend, I would feel like I would have an agenda i.e. not being happy if they met another girl. I don’t feel the friend part of FWB includes real friendship. It just feels like casual sex to me. The idea of Casual sex does not feel good to me. I would feel I was selling myself short. It feels like cum rag/ blow-up doll to me 🙁

  111.  #111Mercedes on June 22, 2009 at 11:20 am

    Gina: I’m really sorry I frustrated you. Rori set a rule for me (both publically on this blog and privately via an email) that told me to direct all anger at her. That’s why I had to do it the way I did. I can’t say “whoever told him to go away” or “which ever one of you did this”. I need to respect her wishes and her wishes with regard to my anger are that it always be directed at her and not at anyone else on the blog.

    I hate to think that frustrates anyone here other than me (because sometimes it is very frustrating to me as well), but…that’s the way she wants it and it’s her blog, so I will respect what she asks. If I don’t, she’s let me know she will delete my comments and I’m really trying hard to make sure that never has to happen…I don’t want to put her in that position.

    Much Love,

  112.  #112gina on June 22, 2009 at 11:23 am

    It’s funny. I usually LOVE reading what Alias Girl has to say, but in the course of the debate last night, I felt triggered by her softness. I hate to admit it, but it was sort of “bla bla bla” to me. Like the words didn’t sink in – they had no meaning. I was like “What are you saying? What’s the point you are trying to make?” Her comments were like puffs of smoke dissipating into the air, while everyone else was firing bullets. And I felt worried that he was going to leave because it wouldn’t be nice to keep firing bullets around someone who doesn’t want to play. I felt resentful of her softness. I’ll reread her posts and see how I feel now that the storm has calmed and I’m not all fired up. I feel interested in my unwillingness to accept softness last night.

  113.  #113DocK on June 22, 2009 at 11:25 am

    Uh oh – INFJ – ENFP – have to dig out my old test from my grad school days when I took it last. I remembered I felt annoyed with it because I didn’t feel it was quite right. Whatever my alphabet soup, I remember that the questions and outcome didn’t quite capture that while I may be very good at social settings I’m not crazy about them. I’m good for awhile and then I am done and have to get out of there.

    I am friendly with some past lovers but I don’t have a problem because I have moved away and might chat via email or FB. Others, I want nothing to do with but they keep showing up. I don’t respond.

    I feel lucky because I don’t have any feelings for past lovers of “what if” or “if only” or anything like that. I feel bad that a couple I feel like I have strung along without intending to because they would like to go back to more.

  114.  #114DocK on June 22, 2009 at 11:28 am

    Lots of saucy women here – so different but oh so expressive. I feel happy!

  115.  #115gina on June 22, 2009 at 11:42 am

    Nikita, I admire your standards. I don’t know why, but I have NEVER wanted a boyfriend – feels claustrophobic to me. Having a FWB felt great to me because it felt like the perks of a relationship without the parts that seem like a hassle. Plus, I had just gotten out of the one relationship i ever had with a guy who stalked me for 7 months after we broke up. I know my FWB loved me and I felt safe cause we were monogamous. He just wasn’t someone I’d want to bring home to dad. I also loved that we we couldn’t take it for granted that it’d keep going. Since there was no commitment, I always knew that he could be gone – that made it exciting, and I relished every moment with him. It was so sexually intimate and intense and emotional, but we never talked. I didn’t want to talk. Kinda weird. Like, I just wanted that one piece of a relationship with him, not any more than that. And there are other guys I love to talk to, but the physical doesn’t happen. I’ve had all these pieces of relationships, but never a complete one. sometimes I just feel so different from other women.

  116.  #116gina on June 22, 2009 at 11:57 am

    I feel mad that I put myself down at the end of my last comment. And I don’t like that i analyzed myself and made it look like I have some sort of serious problem. Ugh. it was in the past and I did what was right for me at the time. I felt triggered by Nikita’s cum rag visual, and I wanted to defend myself, but then, I wouldn’t let myself off the hook. I feel a release in my chest.

  117.  #117Mercedes on June 22, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    I like thinking about personality types…they’re are fun to look at. I’m ENTJ…my man is INTP…makes for sparks! 🙂

    I also like AG’s softness. I get envious of softness in words sometimes. I have softness in my heart, but not so much in words…especially the written ones…

  118.  #118DocK on June 22, 2009 at 12:06 pm

    Gina – I feel interested reading your experience and perspective.

    My dream “man” for awhile was the Wookie from Star Wars. Tall, well-built, give him a beer and stick him in the corner till you need him. Cool growl too! (guhrrrrrr)

  119.  #119Nikita on June 22, 2009 at 12:14 pm


    what you described fees like ” taking a lover” I feel it can be empowering to take a lover. I have, but I never felt they were a friend. He was my lover and that’s all. If he pushed for more, I would chuckle and ask if he wanted to be replaced. I felt secure because I knew they were not husband material. I didn’t feel threatened by an ending and I dated others and kept myself available for something better( I was very honest about this ).
    I don’t exactly believe in boyfriends. When I refer to my sweetie it is who I am intimate with now. I feel sexually exclusive but I feel comfy giving my number out to men that seem interesting. I do not pursue these men. But I feel good getting invitations out to events or dinner. I had a date last night( from the past ) he proposed….hehe, no ring though but he says the offer is open and on the table. Funny, he was never intimate with me but I felt like having wine and cheese, so I accepted. I really needed to get out of the house. I feel grateful that he was persistent. And my sweetie texted me as soon as I was out…….magic 🙂
    I waited until I got home to respond and he called,he comforted me about some stuff I had going on. I felt closer.
    I practiced with the date guy because he used to trigger me really bad, but now; a year later, he was putty in my hands. I felt him melting, I felt him gobbling up my appreciation. He can be very girly but I out-girled him and he grew masculine right in front of me. Yay! His girlyness is probably what used to get me so angry.
    Men totally shift with energy……..I feel like the dog whisperer with my energy. Seriously.

  120.  #120gina on June 22, 2009 at 12:23 pm

    Dog Whisperer – Ha! That’s awesome. Yeah, I considered him a lover. I feel funny saying that out loud “I took a lover” – like I’m living in the wrong time and country to be saying those words. FWB covers everything that isn’t “a relationship.” And, really, a “relationship” is taking a lover, but lotsa times girls close off other options – feels like a trap. Thus rori’s Girlfriend Trap. I love Rori! The only think I wouldn’t repeat about that “lover scenario” – in which we were sexually monogamous, but i dated other people – is that I was having sex with a guy who i wouldn’t want to marry, and that feels unwise now. Just cause I coulda reproduced with that guy, and i woulda been stuck.

  121.  #121Nikita on June 22, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    Aaaw Gina,
    my cum rag statement comes from me imagining a girl in her twenties who has a crush on a boy and follows him to parties; watches him flirt with other girls, pursue them and then if he can’t “hook-up” that night he goes home with the friend who I feel exposes her to too much abuse. The girl I see takes the crumbs because she hasn’t been invited to sit at the table. I see a girl who gives bj’s to try and seduce without being asked. I see a girl on her knees begging. I see a guy rolling over and thinking to himself; ” what the heck, at least it’s pu**y even if it’s not attached to a girl I want to be with or even respect. I feel sad at this. I feel sad that girls try to get love by opening their legs. I feel frustrated when I see that.

  122.  #122Nikita on June 22, 2009 at 12:33 pm

    Taking a lover does sound like a different time, but I don’t f*ck my friends 🙂 I feel FWB is not the whole story even if it is. I wouldn’t invite an FWB to my wedding, so is friend accurately explaining what they are? That’s not a friend to me. Any lover I had is not invited because he was a lover. It feels accurate for me.
    Nikita xxx

  123.  #123Nikita on June 22, 2009 at 12:35 pm

    Quote time!!!!! 🙂

    “Men tend to give us what we expect; expect much.”

    🙂 nikita

  124.  #124DocK on June 22, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    “When I say to myself “I have to get over this guy,” there is a rebellious part of me that will hold on indefinitely. When I give myself permission to get over it whenever I get over it, I usually find that I’m already over it.”

    Erika – this didn’t feel dark to me as JS said. Men and women process things differently and I guess that is how it felt to him.

    I have used this sort of thinking in the past – it helped me. i would have this guy I knew was not good for me, but I spent time beating myself up about why I couldn’t walk away, what’s wrong with me, etc. Sometimes I would just ease up and say, ‘OK, I’m here and, for some reason, I’m not ready to walk. I know it’s best and I will – just not yet.’ For some reason, like you say, that did seem to be the thing that took enough pressure off that I DID end it.

    I like the opposing views – I am a “on the one hand” but “on the other hand” person so I often can see this view and that view and enjoy considering all of it. such interesting women.

  125.  #125Nikita on June 22, 2009 at 12:56 pm

    Oh Gina, I reread your post. For me when I took a lover it was not a relationship. I felt single. I felt I had a puppy to worship at my altar of sensuality. I felt he was lucky I chose him to play this role. One lover made me breakfast, pancakes and fruit. He used to worship me in other ways in my kitchen 🙂 he felt like a Greek statue, a beautiful specimen that I feasted on. No friendship, no relationship, no committment. Only lust and respect, if that’s possible. Feels right though. I made my lover leave very early so that I could refocus on my real life after the fantasy we weaved.
    It’s like a pool boy, or a cabana boy. Sexy, perfect, and good for one role; concubine 🙂
    I no longer take lovers.
    And we are not in touch at all
    They are not friends and I do feel respect for them.
    Taking a lover feels more elegant and feminine to me.
    I would not try to make a lover a boyfriend, I would feel frustrated.
    I expect my lover to run me a bath, light candles, feed me fruit, massage me, and go away. He still works for time with me but I do not expect boyfriend behavior from him-he better not call me at work!!!! He better not surprise me! And he better not put anything in my face without completely inspiring me to do so!
    He better never show up at my door unexpectedly. But he is welcome to open the wine and do the dishes before he leaves.
    Wow, brings back memories 🙂

  126.  #126Daria on June 22, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    I feel annoyed. I feel amused that people are upset Jason left. hehehe… I am literally laughing out loud…. hahhahahaaaaaaaaaa

    he’s just a man guys… he’ll be back…. haha… or if not they’ll be more… trust me…

    Jason i miss you ! hehe

  127.  #127alias girl on June 22, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    i feel yae! and successful. i had the BIGGEST challenge for myself today with having to express something to A GROUP. OMG. i felt so scared. but i feel really really proud of the way i handled it.

    i feel good to create my own world/ energy / vibe and keep it where it feels good. what feels good to me. people can dip their toes into my world or vice versa. i feel good to make decisions about how deeply i engage on certain levels and what feels safe to me. i feel really reall ygood and special and soft to take care of myself.

    i feel less interest in long thoughts and debates and defensivessness or what FEELS like antagonism to me.

    i feel good to read some liked my feeling messages on this thread. i feel not so bothered by people with a different opinion.

    i feel good to shimmy during bullets flying over heated deabte or whatever is going on while i feel like shimmying. if it were a real war i would feel good to find away from it. since it is a blog i felt good to start my own back and forth with myself. 🙂

    dancin with myself-elf oh oh oh uh oh. ooh oh uh oh aw thanks billy idol.

    i feel a little overwhelmed with this thread so i feel better to kind of not fully engage. i will catch up later once i feel the smoke clears and the enrgy neutralizes.

    i feel healing may be taking place and i feel good about that.

    doesn’t feel great to be told by anyone my words were like blah blah blah and feel meaningless. but i actually feel amused after writing that.

    i feel so happy about choosing my words today IN FRONT OF A GROUP!!!

  128.  #128Tina on June 22, 2009 at 4:35 pm

    The trigger for me was Rori’s comment about being someones fire hydrant lol. I feel myself doing this , especially when I didnt know any better – back in the day eh hem. I feel happy that she ‘brought it home”.

  129.  #129Ann on June 22, 2009 at 5:00 pm

    Well I’m back at the computer for a little while this evening. My husband was able to “rig” something up so the AC is working in the front of the house, I’m not comfortable with it being like that all night tho. We do have the prospect of a small apartment in about 3 weeks close to my daughter and granddaughter.

    I followed this thread last night and today from my cell. I can’t type on my cell fast enough to get more than a line a two to post. This feels very frustrating when I want to participate in a conversation.

    What I wanted to say last night was I feel we’re all equal but different with simarilities. I respond different than a man but I feel I could learn from a man too. I’m learning to do what feels good to me. That’s why I stopped trying to post from my phone last night it didn’t feel good to write a response and keep losing it. I’m working on learning to receive what feels good whoever it comes from.

    I hope Jason takes Mercedas up on her offer to comment on her blog. I feel Interested to hear more of what he has to say.

    Rori is there anyway the blog could be set so we can respond from our email? If I lose my internet I won’t be able to participate anymore.

  130.  #130Nikita on June 22, 2009 at 5:07 pm


    congratulations on your prospects, I feel grateful that such a lovely situation is possible.

  131.  #131Ann on June 22, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    Thank you Nikita. I’m trying to put things in a more positve prospect. However at times everything feels so overwhelming.

  132.  #132Daria on June 22, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    I feel delighted by yesterday’s trip to Santa Cruz (a weird little beach town about 1 1/2 hours south). I took up a man’s invitation to drive there… because I am really trying to expand my own zones of stuff to do… and it felt really fun… i now have a new place to go when I want to be by nature… lovely… really liked it… might go again in a few hours/minutes…hehe

    I feel expanded and good…

    and i feel kinda tight in my tummy/liver… hm…

    liver feels heavy

  133.  #133Daria on June 22, 2009 at 5:17 pm


    I feel your overwhelm and know you will be alright… I feel the enormous trigger of dealing with everyday uncertainties and difficulties of living and feeling safe sheltered and healthy…

    I feel heavy anxious worried scared and I know it feels so HEAVY…

    geez it feels like the world on my shoulders…

    I send u an image of fairies in a meadow and lots of lightness and joy…

  134.  #134Erika on June 22, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    I feel amazed by how many comments are on this thread.

    I feel sad today cuz I don’t like doing technical and marketing stuff, and it would feel so nice to have a man around who would help me with these things …

  135.  #135gina on June 22, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    Alias Girl, I’m sorry – your words are not bla bla. By saying that’s what I heard, I was noticing that I was in a mode where I was unwilling to tolerate softness. I respect that you were true to yourself and I appreciate your authentic voice. Congrats on sharing it with a group of people!
    I didn’t mind Jason leaving, but I didn’t like it when i sensed people pushing him away or unwilling to hear the truth of what he was saying underneath his egoistic tone. And then i was annoyed when he expressed that he had been “not-so-kindly asked to leave.” Daria, I felt triggered by your comment about how you’re laughing out loud. Like your glad that his voice was shut out cause he’s just an insignificant man. I feel defensive. And I feel accused of being desperate for a cyber man. grr. I feel humiliated and mad.

    But I do see why people who were triggered are relieved he’s gone. I heard what he was saying cause it is relevant to my situation. However, if I didn’t see it that way, then I would be ticked off by his tone: I can see why some wanted his antagonistic energy gone. I still am interested in the truth of what he said, though. I know that not ALL men who contact me without a ring are peeing on me, but Jason is an example of a man who peed on a bunch of women and he gave me some insight into the truth of Rori’s post.

  136.  #136gina on June 22, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    Nikita, i feel so much compassion for those girls who are the definition of “friends with benefits that you described.” Ugh so awful. I read an article about the trend of FWB that you described.
    I loved having a lover. But I ended up feeling like I used this poor sweet innocent Cabana boy. 🙁

  137.  #137Erika on June 22, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    I find this “peed on” metaphor humorous, but … with circular dating, aren’t we kinda doing the same thing with men?

    I dunno, I really like and enjoy men so I don’t like attributing icky motives to them. I like to tell them when they do things that are upsetting to me, but I also like to assume the best about them. Deep down, most of them want nothing more in the world than to contribute to us and our lives.

  138.  #138heartbeat on June 22, 2009 at 5:45 pm

    Erika – yeah I feel good about men too, I feel comfortable believing in a deeper desire to contribute, and in my own ability to sense a not-rightness in any situation.

    I’m also with you on the ‘obsession’ thing – I’ve done this, and it felt like ‘letting go’ – and, importantly, I recognised the difference between Identifying with the feelings (anger, abandonment, rage, curiosity, frustration) and Witnessing the feelings. This process of Witnessing feels amazing to me.

  139.  #139heartbeat on June 22, 2009 at 5:55 pm

    Yikes it’s taken me over an hour to catch up on posts, this thread feels astonishing.

    I notice something going on here that I do also – when triggered by a man who uses general terms and opinions – which is to slip into arguing the point.

    Although I send myself praise for remembering this recently and releasing myself into feminine, heart mode. “I feel so bad when we argue, I don’t even want to be having this conversation”. Instant connection. No cop out – we weren’t gonna agree on the topic anyhow.

    I can happily debate til the hills turn purple but it doesn’t feel good in certain situations. I’m a GIRL – Goddess In Right Location…. Although some quiz I once did told me I was an INFP 🙂

  140.  #140Ann on June 22, 2009 at 6:02 pm

    Daria thank you those fairies they feel good. I’m working on positive right now. I want feel good things in my life. I want to choose my words in a way that benefit my life.

    I was feeling very overwhelmed and fearful, and stuck last night. I had to get outside. I felt the weight lifting as I got out in the night air. My daughter’s neighbor the guy that lives in the front apartment came out to put his trash out. He started talking to us and told us his apartment would be empty in about 3 weeks. He showed us the apartment. When we went back to my daughters apartment she said “that was freaky, because you were just worrying about a place to live.”

    I said set down to hear this. Told her the night before I’d prayed for him to be blessed with something he wanted, that would make him happy and if it was ok, if it was what he wanted to let him move, and make sure we knew about his apartment going to be empty. He’s moving to another state and he seemed very happy about this move. My daughter was like “Oh WOW”

    Now as far as this post goes I don’t feel for ME all or nothing works with anything. I feel what works one way with me for one situation might not work the same way the next time. For me again, I feel I usually have to walk through the situation before I’m done with it. If I just walk away it follows me if I haven’t dealt with and learned everything I need to from the situation.

    I don’t feel any situation or anyone owns me unless I’m too frighten to deal with it. And dealing with things is often not easy for me but I have to fine MY way through it. If I walk away without being finished with it(whatever it is) I shut down. But that doesn’t stop all the emotions I have from the situation still being there.

    I guess I’m trying to say one size doesn’t fit all. I’m working on a positive “soup” where I take a little bit of this, a little bit of that and it all starts simmering in my pot to taste(feel) good. Or in other words whatever works for me to feel good.

  141.  #141gina on June 22, 2009 at 6:03 pm

    Erika, I don’t think they have icky motives. But like Jason was saying, he would keep girls in circulation to avoid the One. And he would tug at their heartstrings to boost his confidence. Like a couple of weeks ago, my boss contacted me and we had a long conversation one night. It started off purely sexual (we have some history), and I said “It feels fun to flirt, but I’m not up for an actual booty call.” He said “That’s cool. Flirting is fun.” I thought he’d bail on the conversation, but he showed interest in what I do, what i want to do… We talked about things we’d like to do together, we flirted and it felt fun. But it was texting! It wasn’t even real talking, and we never made a plan. Then a couple of days later, he started another text convo. He said he wanted to come over, and I said “Are you up for taking it slow and getting to know eachother? Or do you just want a booty call?” He said “That’s entirely up to you.” I thought this was a pretty good response and I felt a little excited. But then he bailed “cause the rain was falling really hard by his place.” And I haven’t heard from him since. When I saw him at work, he would give me little arm shoves and goofy looks to let me know he likes me and it’s all good, and that he would probably flirt with me again in the future. I’m not mad, I don’t think he’s a bad person. But he is not that into me. Period. So I won’t be wasting time texting with him unless he convinces me otherwise.

  142.  #142Ann on June 22, 2009 at 6:05 pm

    Heartbeat hi lady we were posting at the same time. Would someone answer a question for me please. What do the initials INFJ and ENFP stand for?

  143.  #143gina on June 22, 2009 at 6:07 pm

    A man keeping women around that he likes but is “not that into” is different than us circular dating, because we are the fire hydrant, not the dog. we aren’t pursuing these men. that makes it different, no?

  144.  #144Ann on June 22, 2009 at 6:13 pm

    I feel men do exactly what they want to do. What feel good to them moment by moment. They might not think about it feeling good but they like what they’re doing.

  145.  #145heartbeat on June 22, 2009 at 6:14 pm

    Hi Ann – I like your comment very much – yes me too, I feel my way through too.

    INFP is Introverted, INtuitive, Feeling, Perceiving – although I can be extrovert too, but basically quite private.

    All the other types are on Google.

  146.  #146Daria on June 22, 2009 at 6:17 pm


    I knew my laughing sounded weird written down.

    I WAS literally laughing out loud but it was like a tittering giggle… it felt very girly and cute

    I feel amused by some stuff I was reading about how “we pushed Jason away”

    Well I feel amused about all the “oh no he left” feeling I was getting and seeming blame being assigned for it…

    I totally did not feel like oh no he left… I felt like whatever…
    I don’t mind him being here or leaving…
    I feel like since we’re practicing being targets and not holding on to men… it feels absurd to bemoan one leaving… and feel like blaming ppl for his loss…

    Yes Jason SAID he was asked in not so nice way to stop posting… I don’t know if that is true or what I THINK is that he probably just took it that way… I don’t know who asked him to stop…

    I definitely do not feel like I pushed him away and if I did I don’t feel guilty about it right now…

    I do not want to minimize men I just feel amused that it seems like such a big deal to some that one left…

    I guess I feel nonchalant about it…

    Personally I would prefer it that he stay…

    Either way I feel very non triggered

    I also feel non – triggered by his comments… only feel annoyed by feeling patronized…

    I LOVE men… I feel smug right now… I feel smug at feeling non triggered and blaze…

    I feel triggered defensively that Gina felt bad…

    I DID feel amused by visions of cyber women getting all in a flurry about a man who is posting…

    I feel all great that I’m not in a flurry… i feel all “cool”…

    I also feel worried that I’m kinda missing the boat here and doing the “I’m better than other women thing” and that’s not the best for me…


    I feel interested…

    I feel bored and interested in calling out Jason on his “tone”… I felt good when he addressed my comment and said he felt particularly intrigued by that… I felt special…

    I love men and I love melting their cute combative ways and the way they say OH NO this is RIGHT and how they can (almost) suck me into arguing with them… I love avoiding that and feeling out of the argument… I love how arguing with them makes them take a really strong stance and make absolutist black and white statements and it’s so easy to “push their buttons” on them…

    I love how I feel so powerful and Goddesslike around them and how they melt on feeling messages…


  147.  #147Ann on June 22, 2009 at 6:21 pm

    Thanks Heartbeat I’m also more private but usually very Intuitive. My intuition is usually pretty well on the money. Unless I listen to someone else instead of trusting my first instinct.

  148.  #148Erika on June 22, 2009 at 6:22 pm

    Thanks Heartbeat.

    Gina, yeah I get that. I just think the more we assume the best about a man’s motives, the more likely he is to demonstrate good motives. I feel disempowered being a “victim” of any kind.

    Also, the marriage proposal guy I described earlier .. if I had assumed the worst about him, I would have assumed he was “just not that into me.” We enjoy each other a lot, but he doesn’t text or call me all the time or anything like that. In fact, he had said he didn’t want to get married again due to messy divorce.

    And then one day sitting in a restaurant he took both my hands in his and started talking marriage. I felt so touched (and surprised).

    So I’m saying, we are really missing out if we prejudge men …

  149.  #149Daria on June 22, 2009 at 6:23 pm

    Crap did I just say I feel its absurd to feel x and y/?

    That’s way off…

    I THINK it’s totally ok to FEEL any kind of way…

    I THINK its absurd to blame ppl for his loss… but perfectly ok to feel like blaming ppl…


    I dono I’m feelin unsure… I feel like maybe I was just being judgemental … I sometimes do that to feel “superior” to other ppl…


  150.  #150heartbeat on June 22, 2009 at 6:26 pm

    That feels top dollar, Daria – love the last bit esp.

    Ann I feel interested in your story about the accomodation, amazing synchronicity.

    And I feel sleepy too, early hours here, time to switch off and rest….

  151.  #151Daria on June 22, 2009 at 6:26 pm

    I felt really proud of Alias Girl’s feeling statements and refusal to participate… I feel like she was right on for saying that she doesn’t want to participate in what feels like a one track and antagonistic type discussion… yay… thank you Alias girl…

    I feel butterfly like…

    Im gonna go back to Santa cruz right now hehe

  152.  #152heartbeat on June 22, 2009 at 6:28 pm

    Daria I was referring to your previous comment btw

  153.  #153heartbeat on June 22, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    Yes, thank you AG too.

    Night all! xxxx

  154.  #154Daria on June 22, 2009 at 6:36 pm


    And what exactly were those “not-so-nice” words used?


    I feel soooo curious!

    I’m willing to offer a reward for juicy information…

  155.  #155Ann on June 22, 2009 at 6:43 pm

    Night Heartbeat. I also loved the way AG said she didn’t want to participate. Daria I’m also curious as to what was said. It’s Rori’s blog so she’s the only one who should be able to say not to post here. However, I don’t want to make assumptions even tho it seems reasonable.

  156.  #156gina on June 22, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    I didn’t feel clingy towards a masculine presence on here, but I felt respectful. He’s a person. I don’t like the implication that it’s “cool” to be indifferent about someone’s point of view. My goal isn’t to be indifferent. That’s not what Miss Whatever is to me. Miss Whatever has the wisdom to be grateful for every single thing that comes her way, but she knows nothing lasts forever, so she’s easy going. She’s not blase. She takes care of what’s within her control, and she leaves the rest alone. She Loves and Respects men, but she never puts them on a pedestal. She loves and respects herself, but she never puts herself above others. She knows that we are all divine, and she is gratefull for the unique role that she plays – she doesn’t diminish others in order to know her greatness.
    I have compassion for whatever struggle anyone has to overcome within themselves, but i feel frustrated when the struggle is disguised as superiority.

  157.  #157Erika on June 22, 2009 at 6:59 pm

    Thanks for that, Gina, as Rori once said to me, that sounds like a beautiful manifesto.

    I feel much better when I hold myself equal to everyone else and include everyone else as much as possible. Cuz I sure don’t like how it feels to be excluded.

    I feel frustrated with the words people use sometimes to express themselves, but I recognize that when I’m triggered I don’t always have access to the right words either. So I would hope other people would extend to me the compassion you are describing.

  158.  #158Ann on June 22, 2009 at 7:11 pm

    Ok let me see if I can get my feelings written in the way Rori ask to do. I’m feeling triggered myself right now. Jason is a man who brought hisself, willing, into a blog full of women. That took alot of courage. I applaude you for that. Thank you for sharing while you were here.

    Now to share from MY own experiences. I have guy friends who are strong willed and opinated as I am too. I’ve had discussions with them in front of other females before. Usually what I coming away feeling from the FEMALES point of view, is I was being too tough, not understanding enough of the guys. Like excuses were being made for the men. This leaves me feeling judge, crappy and alone. I don’t ask for my female friends to see things exactly as I do. I ask for them to respect this is how I feel. I handled the situation based on what I was hearing.

    I often tell my friends hey it’s fine for you to see it different but don’t come down on me please. We’re both females we’d do better supporting each other. Not meaning they should agree with me if they don’t but they shouldn’t treat me like I was wrong for what I felt and said to the guy. To put it simply “he’s a big boy he can handle hisself.”

  159.  #159Mercedes on June 22, 2009 at 7:33 pm

    I find it very interesting that if some people are triggered by things others aren’t they run the risk of being made fun of and belittled here.

    So much for a safe place to blog about things that irritate us…

  160.  #160gina on June 22, 2009 at 8:22 pm

    Ugh. This got convoluted. I feel stuck.

  161.  #161gina on June 22, 2009 at 8:30 pm

    Mercedes, how do you feel?

  162.  #162gina on June 22, 2009 at 8:39 pm

    Daria, I just read your post about using judge ment as a way to feel superior. I feel forgiving and relaxed now.

  163.  #163gina on June 22, 2009 at 8:49 pm

    Ann, I’m not trying to defend jason. I felt defensive in response to some of the posts: Jason didn’t take the patronizing tone with him. Rori advised us to notice how we went into masculine mode ourselves – I know i did. That’s why I shut out Alias Girl.
    I even felt relief to go into my head to analyze. It felt like my “comfort” zone – though now I see it doesn’t bring me pleasure.

  164.  #164Mercedes on June 22, 2009 at 8:59 pm

    Gina: I am curious…why do you need to know what I’m feeling? I understand and respect your desire to use feeling messages but it confuses me as to why you need me to do it. I don’t use them generally (unless I’m discussing something really important with my guy) and I thought everyone here understood that.

    People are being attacked and made fun of here for being triggered when others are not. I find that interesting. It makes me wonder why we call this a “safe place to blog”. That’s all I’m trying to say. It doesn’t really matter how I’m feeling.

  165.  #165Ann on June 22, 2009 at 9:06 pm

    Gina my post wasn’t about defending Jason. I was sharing my experiences and how I perceive them. Which is usually when a man is involved in a conversation with more than one female, esp if one(or more) of the females are opinated, then the females often wind up disagreeing over how things were spoken to the man or on what the man was trying to convey.

    I was trying to convey that all the men I know are capable of taking up for theirselves when they wish to. I feel woman would be better off supporting each other even if it’s simply agreeing to disagree.

    I probably won’t be around the computer much longer tonight but I look forward to reading on my mobile how the ladies on siren island are doing tonight.

  166.  #166Tina on June 22, 2009 at 9:44 pm

    Oh god Im feeling obsessive over “warm and fuzzy” – thats what I call him. I ran in to him at the store tonight. I asked him “did you tune my guitar” he looked down – smiling oh so sweetly and bashfully, “yes, I did, I played it a little, I hope you dont mind?.” I said thank you, no I dont mind. We had a connection lol , no I lie , I felt a connection lol. I had my boyfriends truck so you know, Whatever. I drove off in to the sunset *sigh.

  167.  #167Tina on June 22, 2009 at 9:45 pm

    I was feeling just as bashful as he awe. God I can be so “telling” . OH well , this feeling will wear off soon.

  168.  #168gina on June 22, 2009 at 9:46 pm

    I asked you how you feel cause I agreed with your post. I felt stuck and wanted to communicate in feeling messages. But, in general I felt mad and ick and like i wanted to belittle and judge analyze and accuse. I felt scared of seeming not nice. I felt uncomfortable with all that. I felt resentful that you get to be “off the hook,” and analyze rather than express. I believe that it’s the masculine judge mental energy that is creating the crummy feelings I’m experiencing here, and that you seemed to be alluding to. I felt frustrated with your masculine analyzing cause I was trying to find my feelings, and I sensed that we felt the same way. Plus, when you are critical of Rori and this blog, I feel defensive. I get the impression that you are trying to undermine Rori’s blog and redirect everyone to your own. And then I feel guilty and I rationalize about how that couldn’t possibly be the case. But i get all in my head, and it’s frustrating. I felt apprehensive bringing it up, and I saw the opportunity to just ask you straight up “how do you feel” and I did. I can see that it came off a little antagonistic. I guess it was. I feel sorry for that.

  169.  #169Erika on June 22, 2009 at 10:12 pm

    wow, the energy on this thread 🙂

    I feel a little unheard.

    What I’m saying is that a man who we are very attracted to, who said he never wanted to remarry, and who at one point we thought “was just not that into us” can

    if we don’t judge him and let him be who he is!!!

    suddenly take both our hands in a restaurant one night and talk about marrying us …

    But if we sit around and say “oh he peed on me” “he’s just not that into me” “he wants to use me for sex” “he’s a jerk” etc.

    then he’s never going to feel safe enough to take both our hands in his and talk marriage

  170.  #170gina on June 22, 2009 at 11:18 pm

    Erika, I agree that it’s unproductive to accuse a man of being a no-good-peein’-scoundrel. But I think it is good to say “I aint no hydrant.” I’m no longer available to have 2 hour text conversations with my boss, which he is probably initiating to avoid his responsibilities as a father. I am not going to think about him while I work, hoping that he’ll sneak me a flirtatious touch/glance. He doesn’t get those pieces of me anymore. and, maybe if he doesn’t get those pieces of women like me, he’ll decide to man-up and really be there for his Babies’ Momma. that part is none of my business – I bring it up in reference to jason’s point that boys avoid Manhood by holding onto the heartstrings of girls they’re not into. In this case I don’t feel attached. I like him and I am available. But I’m not giving him any more pieces of me.

  171.  #171gina on June 22, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    But you’re right that it’s a shame to demonize men who are working through their own stuff. Thank you, Erika, for the reminder to STAY OPEN to love while maintaining our boundaries

  172.  #172Nikita on June 23, 2009 at 12:15 am

    your post feels like a cool summer’s breeze 🙂 yummy feelings.

    hi there 🙂 I feel major resonance with your comment about multiple women and one man. I feel like I heard you the first time. I feel good about your reiteration as well.

    I feel you 🙂

    Alias girl,
    yayy!!! Do still feel like dancing? I feel good visualizing you dancing in your pink soft cloud world 🙂

    Maybe “feeling a little bitchy”? I was reading the feminine vs. Masculine archives. I read about the bitch parts and how our energy could come out convoluted when trying to blend the two.
    I was feeling bitchy earlier I tuned into my inner alias girl 🙂
    I feel really proud of staying feminine and feeling ” fight free”;
    I feel really good and guilt free. I was feeling like maybe I could attack but that felt ugly so I dug down deep into my heart and my feeling was heartbroken. And forgotten; completely irrational mind you but I “felt” that way and went with it. I expressed it attack free in a loving pouty way. I felt a little stuck but then the stuckness felt like ego. I feel empathy for you in what seems like frustration. I applaud you for re-rooting yourself in feeling messages! Yayy Gina. Elusive Greek goddessy hair having Gina 🙂 I do feel high when I defend a point or want to get to the bottom of something. It doesn’t feel good. It feels like a masky high; distorted, cloaked, hidden. I felt very powerful honesty in your post. It felt scary but soft. I felt wow! Truth is vulnerable. Vulnerable is strong. Stronger than arguments. It feels so pared down and simple. It feels like time is precious. The collective is precious.

    I feel better with a structure here. I feel insulated from fights. I feel protected under Rori’s umbrella. Hehehe. I feel funny writing that but it feels that way 🙂 I feel my smile coming back. I feel so good about the way I made my heart transparent tonight. I feel alias girl might feel proud to……….I feel I may be speculating a bit. And I feel I’d rather feel happy than right! Yayayay!

    Big bear hugs and sticky pink kisses!
    Thank you ladies,

  173.  #173Karen on June 23, 2009 at 12:44 am

    I have never posted before, but I felt so triggered by all the back and forth about male friends that I had to. I didn’t even know what boundaries were until I learned about Rori, so I had no idea of the difference between friends with benefits and real love was. I have been in a lot of relationships that didn’t work. A few of my former men are still friends with me because they can respect my boundaries and accept that we will never be “together” again. Some have just disappeared and there are a couple that I would love to set fire to their genitals if I saw them again. I was divorced from the father of my 3 kids about 8 years ago. Our relationship consisted of fighting and trying to kill each other, punctuated by bouts of very good sex. Unlike most women who stay with an abusive man for “the children”, I left him to protect the children. He spent 5 years in prison for breaking probation and just got out a year ago; I have to have contact with him because he comes to see the kids. By using Rori’s tools, trusting my boundaries, speaking feeling messages and walking away when things start feeling bad, I have opened a line of communication with this man who I hated for most of 13 years. We are not and will never be friends or lovers, but getting through visitation without a screaming match is very important to me. I am trying to teach my 2 daughters, ages 13 and 11 the Rori methods so they will not have to go through the hell most of us do in order to have a relationship. I feel that women can have male friends, but that it depends on how well she is able to believe in herself and her boundaries and whether or not the man in question is worth it.

  174.  #174gina on June 23, 2009 at 1:00 am

    Ha Nikita, yeah, totally bitchy.
    You’re so friggin cute, yet strong and deeply intuitive. Love hearin from you.

  175.  #175heartbeat on June 23, 2009 at 1:28 am

    Gina, your comments feel beautiful and open, I love what you wrote earlier (yes, a wonderful manifesto) – I feel interested and inspired. This is how I want to communicate.

    Erika – I heard you – and that’s a gorgeous manifesto too!

    Ann – it feels differently for me to have a discussion (in certain situations) with a man I’m involved with than it does with men friends. I feel excited by discussion, I can challenge (but really I’m flirting?) but if the Communication is getting into defend-and-attack with anyone, and especially my man, then I feel grateful to have the choice to express feelings.

    Mercedes – I felt angry when you wrote “I find it very interesting that if some people are triggered by things others aren’t they run the risk of being made fun of and belittled here.” and “People are being attacked and made fun of here for being triggered when others
    are not. ” I feel confused too – I don’t know if you mean me, or someone else. I don’t know if you are defending yourself or someone else. I’m uncomfortable.

  176.  #176gina on June 23, 2009 at 1:46 am

    even though I totally feel called out on being a bitch. But it’s kind of a relief, though. Like it was obvious, and I was struggling to describe something big and pink, with a trunk and rough skin… and you were like “maybe a Pink Elephant?” Ha ha. I feel amused, but worried that my words were hurtful to Mercedes. I also appreciate how you illustrated that “bitchy” is the manifestation of deeper feelings interfering with an obstacle. I am especially bitchy when I go out salsa dancing. Like I want my masculine side to protect me from men getting too close. It has a lot to do with my boobs – I feel like i need to keep men away from my boobs. So I’ve had this inner bodyguard since I was eleven. But, at the same time, I’m there dressed all sexy, and I want to experience myself as beautiful and attractive. ugh, COMPLICATED
    But wait, back to before…I don’t know what was under all of it. I felt angry at Daria’s smug attitude. I felt small. Like I shrunk. I keep almost saying more, but I think that was at the heart of the bitchiness.

  177.  #177heartbeat on June 23, 2009 at 2:02 am

    Nikita, I love the way you express yourself in the comment above – so open and clear. Beautiful. I feel more and more connected in recent comments, like you really ‘get’ this expressing, feminine thing.

    I’m curious about Gina’s greek goddessy hair – have I missed a picture?

    For me, feminine expressing feels soft and open, and also passionate and fulsome too. It feels strong, like I can deal with grey areas and the unknown. I don’t need a point of view.

    I have a picture of us all being circles overlapping, my circle overlaps with some in some parts and with others in other parts; and then it all moves around like the glass disca in a kaleidoscope and I overlap different others in different places, and some the same, and so on.

  178.  #178Aggy on June 23, 2009 at 2:17 am

    Even just THINKING about a man is letting him ‘mark’ you!!!!
    ooh my! my! this is big, I love it
    Rori, do you mean we should get them out of our minds compeletely? I mean is it realstic?
    coz I learnt from somewhere that I need to just let my thoughts flow and accept all what I feel about those thoughts and let it sink in. If my thought are making me feel pain in the stomach then I just allow it and not judge at all, feel the pain, EFT it and let it flow and go away. what do you think ?

    What affects us is our judgement about a particular situation, not the situation itself so the feeling of pain, sadness, et.c. e.t.c. when we are thinking about a man is realy our judgement of may be the things he did or said, which might not necessarily be what he meant I mean he might not have meant to make us feel bad/sad. It is our JUDGEMENT.
    and this is not only with men but with all the relationships in our lives

    If we can purpose to be positive and see an opportunity to lern in every situation, then things will not be as bad.

    love you all

  179.  #179heartbeat on June 23, 2009 at 2:24 am

    Yes yes Aggy – and this is where I feel ‘witnessing’ is so helpful to me – noticing the physical sensations, and then the thoughts, without attaching meaning. This feels like acceptance and healing.

  180.  #180alias girl on June 23, 2009 at 2:50 am

    yae heartbeat is back! i felt worried last time you left cuz i felt weird about the energy and dynamics that were occuring.

    mercedes i feel protective and angry. i feel grateful rori’s profound dedication to sharing her knowledge and experience in a loving manner. i feel helped beyond helped by what she has offered. i feel amazed at her commitment. i feel angry to hear what feels like criticism and attack. i feel everyone is free to express what they like though rori continually expresses a suggestion for people to use feeling statements so as to keep the blog SAFE. so i feel blown away with a big wtf when someone complains about the blog feeling unsafe while at the same time refuses to use feeling messages and says what have feeling messages got to do with

    phew i felt angry and energy rushing to my heart. i still feel angry. i feel like punching a whole in the wall. rrrrrrrr. pow pow pow shasizzle. powza! phew.

    gina thank you. i feel very proud of you and your dedication to moving through the sometimes muck. i feel love and compassion. i feel resonance when i read alot of your comments.

    i feel amused with darias’s miss whatever. 🙂

    i feel very comforted by nikita’s soft fuzzy pink blanket words sometimes. i feel safe with nikita’s expressions. i feel greatful.

    ann i feel very excited about your apartment prospects and happy that it is nearby your daughter and grandaughter. i feel good to imagine you in a nice place to live with a good computer and continued internet access. HIGH SPEED!

    i feel confused when people feel so sad about one man leaving siren island. i feel amused also with daria’s take on this. there will always be more men crashing on our shore. i feel every man all the time in life is a chance to practice the rori tools. i feel grateful to have learned so manyrori tools. i felt weird not to see a lot of them being used sometimes with practice opportunity of having jason here. ah well. i feel everybody is on their own path.

    i still feel a little furious about rrrrrr i feel unable to find good words of expression that i will feel good about in this mometn.

    i feel empathy for jason because people can talk smack and he can’t smack back. i feel relieved also. i feel both sides of that eqwuation.

    i feel grateful to be recovery from my own challenges with narcissim and self esteem issues and lots of character traits i have that feel healing baby step by baby step.

    i feel loving. i feel gratitude for rori.

    i feel loving towards the sirens and the men crashing on our shores.

  181.  #181alias girl on June 23, 2009 at 3:02 am

    oddly i feel deep deep love and compassion for ann in this moment. i feel weird to be sort hit with emotion NOW in this random moment about what she wrote back when about her story and her progress and i feel compaasion and empathy and relatedness. i feel very strange to be feeling this out of the blue in this moment. hahah i feel bizarre. i feel loving. ann i feel grateful for your presence and openness and sharing. i feel odd and teary.

  182.  #182heartbeat on June 23, 2009 at 3:04 am

    HUGS Alias Girl!!!!

    Thank you for feeling concerned. I love your openness so much. I’ve been working extra, lots of fun but now I’m on an r & r week. So that’s a LOT of why I’ve not been on, though I’ve just about caught up with posts/comments. I don’t want to comment and not follow through if I’ve been away and haven’t time.

    A really big reason I sometimes stay off-blog is that I feel the need to let all the learning ‘sink in’, so I let go and see how I’m swimming; and I have work and interests that nourish me, so I shift focus there. Sometimes I feel addicted to this blog, like I can feel addicted to work, or food.

    Sometimes I feel triggered too, and take space to work through old, old feelings.

  183.  #183DocK on June 23, 2009 at 6:03 am

    Hi Engaging, Beautiful Sirens

    I felt sad yesterday. I was listening to some audio CDs, self-help sort of stuff and my NV came in full throttle. I have been trying for a long time to “be better” and I am not sure I know how to describe that – I want to be a richer, deeper, more conscious person but I feel I fall short all the time. I feel so much ego driven but I don’t know how else to be because so much of that is covering up insecurity.

    I guess that has affected my mood today because I feel kind of sad reading through the posts. I mean, we don’t always agree and go round and round and I know it’s OK but something in this thread felt different, more worked up and, I don’t even know who said it (Daria I think?) but JasonS or no JasonS, it’s OK – I just feel sensitive that it feels like a man somehow was in the middle of all of this, which is so often the way.

    I felt a trigger when he talked about how men keep ex GFs around in their circle of “friends.” To me, that is different than circular dating because CD is a process of engaging with new men, not supposed to be former lovers, ex’s or BFs whereas what he was referring to is us continuing to engage with the ex’s and how they may use that to their advantage.

    Not trying to say what is right or wrong for anyone else. I am friendly with some former BFs and lovers. I just felt something in the pit of my stomach when he talked about how I might feel if it was MY current LI keeping contact with former GFs and I know that Rori, herself, said that she had stated clearly to her husband (when he was her husband-to-be) that this would not be acceptable to her – she had been hurt by that. My guy keeping contact with ex’s doesn’t feel good to me, my own insecurity I know. (If they have children together, that is different, they HAVE to do this and SHOULD be friendly, my parents could be exhibit A).

    A long time ago, a former lover and I were still friends and he had a new GF (I had ended it – he had some alcohol issues and was only 19) and then someone told me he was at a party with her and was drunk and kept calling her by my name. I thought this was horrible for her and stopped being friends with him. I don’t know, it is all really convoluted and I feel confused.

    What feels best to me is to support each other in our choices and know that every path is different but honorable, as long as we don’t hurt others.

  184.  #184Mercedes on June 23, 2009 at 7:04 am

    I’m going to start off by saying that everything I write here is said with compassion…not anger. Because of the way I write (not in feeling messages) it can be difficult to get my tone across. None of this is meant in any way other than with direct sadness about how this turned out. I also want you all to know that I’m not the only one who wanted to bring it up. I got 14 emails last night from women who wanted to say it but didn’t feel comfortable or who were just telling me they agree with what’s being said. Some of those women post here, others just read but many were feeling uncomfortable with the insults and couldn’t, for whatever reason, bring it up. Those women were grateful that I did…but mostly in the hopes that it would get Rori’s attention and she would help direct us.

    Gina: The way you explained your feelings, I can tell you we don’t feel the same. I think we have the same position on the issue at hand, but I our feelings do not match each other. I hate that you think I’ve gotten “off the hook” here and it appears you want the same for yourself. I am the way I am and I can’t change that. If you are not comfortable using feeling messages either then please, take yourself off the hook. Be authentic and speak (write) in a manner that is most comfortable to you. You shouldn’t have to be angry or hurt that someone else gets to use the words that feel good to them and you don’t. You can. There are no “hooks” here.

    I wasn’t at all alluding to your “crummy feelings”. I was alluding to some very direct insults being said by many women to many women. Those insults were being hidden behind feeling messages and that really ticked me off. It wasn’t one person, it was many.

    I’m sorry my masculine analyzing frustrates you. It is who I am and I can’t change that (and I don’t want to…I love who I am). As I said, Rori asked me directly to push all anger her way. I did it out of respect for her wishes. I wasn’t being critical of her…just doing what she asked me to do. I’m not at all trying to undermine her blog and redirect people to my own. I think it’s important that anyone who wants to learn and grow use whatever resources are out there…that could mean this blog or Christian Carter’s site or my blog or Jason’s or Tinque’s or anyone else’s for that matter. It’s good to see things from lots of perspectives and many different styles. I would never want to encourage anyone to stop reading here or posting here. I read and post here as well. I have absolutely no motivation for trying to get people to leave. I have nothing to sell and am not in any way competition with Rori. She and I have talked in great detail about our differences. We seem to respect that about each other. It’s not an issue between us, but when I don’t agree with her or get angry and direct it toward her, it’s other people who can’t handle it. Not Rori.

    Heartbeat: To answer your questions, I didn’t mean you and I was defending someone else.

    Alias Girl: I am also grateful for Rori’s dedication to sharing. That’s why I sought out this blog. I never wanted to attack her, but, as I said, her direct request of me was to channel all anger through her and not anyone else here. Rori and I have talked privately about my lack of feeling messages and she has been very supportive. It’s others on this blog that seem to want to change me. Not her. I appreciate that about her more than you’ll ever know. I never said “what do feeling messages have to do with it”. I said I was envious of your softness and I told Gina “I understand and respect your desire to use feeling messages”. It’s not that I don’t think anyone else should. If it works for you, you should do it. I’m only asking for that same respect from others. For me, I feel silly and completely wrong when I try to force them. For me, it’s forcing. I have a very specific place for them and I want to keep it that way. All I’ve asked is for others to accept me (on this blog) the way I am and not ask me to change that in order to fit a mold. I’ve never been one to fit a mold.

    Now, to everyone, I want to talk to you about my boundaries. I believe most of you know I have set one for myself that states “I will take responsibility for my own happiness”. I need to do that now. This blog is not making me happy because I get so frustrated when I’m not allowed to speak my mind and everytime I don’t agree with Rori I get attacked. I can handle the attacks okay, but not when my words have to be chosen so carefully. I’m not comfortable here and I’m not happy. It’s time for me to take responsibility for my own happiness.

    At one other time, I tried to walk away from here because I could tell from the beginning this wasn’t going to be the right place for me. I triggered a lot of peope and I was attacked. I hope that doesn’t happen this time. When I see others saying they’re going to take a break from the blog and everyone simply tells them they’ll be missed and wishes them well…hmmm….that’s not the response I get, that’s for sure. I’m hoping that changes this time.

    Many of you will be happy (or at least relieved) that I’m going. For those of you who aren’t, no fears, we can still keep in touch via my blog or my email (I’m not encouraging anyone to leave this blog, just offering a way to keep in touch if you’d like).

    Also, for those of you who have sent me emails thanking me for my directness and lessons, no worries, as Daria says “another one will come along”. Someone else will show up here and speak her mind and be her beautiful, authentic self (not accusing anyone here of not doing that, just meaning someone will come along with a style similar to mine). I’m sure she’ll be able to take the attacks and she’ll hang in here until it’s time for her to leave too. I don’t have any advice for her, but I do have understanding and possibly some humor to offer, so she’s more than welcome to reach out to me if she ever needs to talk or analyze.

    Rori: Thanks so much for everything. I’m not saying goodbye to you. I’ll be reading your posts and maybe someday you’ll say something that triggers me enough to respond. In the meantime, I’m going to do everything in my power to not click on the comment links. I know you understand me, but it’s clear my style and my authentic me is not what most of the other women here want. I won’t change (can’t really….we can only change for ourselves, not for others). So…I’ll be reading…I’ll be learning…I’ll continue to grow and work on the parts of me that need worked on using your tools, but I won’t (at least for the time being) be utilizing the support you’re offering through this network because it doesn’t feel like support to me (especially for those of us who disagree in one way other another). Again, I am so very grateful for your tools, your experience and your courage. Sometimes I wish I could have simply followed you and trusted and agreed with everything you said…but…I don’t and I have to be true to myself. There are places where I can be much more comfortable doing that than here…I’ll be watching though.

    Take care everyone…it’s certainly been an interesting ride.

    Much Love,

  185.  #185DocK on June 23, 2009 at 7:51 am

    Hi Mercedes

    I will miss you. I like everyone here even when I am triggered by something or other. I never felt things got SO out of hand before. I felt like everything here was boiling over so much. Maybe that has to happen from time to time and it’s OK. I feel my sensitivity to “a guy being in the middle of it” is because I lost a friendship that way about a year ago. I don’t feel happy about your leaving this post. You have helped me. I have a lot of “masculine energy” and every “intuitive” person that has ever met me comments on it before anything else. I think you have a great guy that loves you the way you are. I have tried to soften a bit (on the outside) because I have felt it, at times, might have put guys off. I often felt very connected to you and how you have “said” things – maybe because of my masculine energy side jumping up and down doing a theoretical high five with you. I feel touched by everyone here. I feel sad when I lose voices – I feel selfish but I also feel honest to say it.

  186.  #186Erika on June 23, 2009 at 7:52 am


    Thanks for letting me know I was heard. Much appreciated.


    I don’t know if this helps at all. Of course Rori’s focus is on feelings (which I enjoy because it feels very sensual and alive to me), but in non-violent communication, we teach that speaking in terms of met and unmet universal needs is just as effective and sometimes moreso at diffusing conflicts than talking in terms of feelings.

    So when I read your comment, I hear very strong unmet needs to be heard and understood (unmet when other people assume they know your intent when you comment, and they assume your intent is something like redirecting traffic to your blog, and it doesn’t match with what you know is true for yourself), and for autonomy (the freedom to use your own style without having to conform to whatever everyone else is doing).

    I hear a bunch of other unmet needs in there, too, for respect, for empathy, for appreciation, for consideration, for ease and peace of mind, and it sounds like all of these unmet needs are creating so much frustration that it would feel better for you to disconnect from this conversation rather than stick around.

    Does any of that resonate with you?

  187.  #187Erika on June 23, 2009 at 8:04 am

    Also, going back to Jason’s comments, and in parallel with what it sounds like Mercedes is saying about unmet needs to be heard and understood,

    and because I love men so much, I imagine any guy very dear from me, and how he would feel if I accused him of “stringing me along.” To me, thinking that way is very presumptuous because it assumes I can get inside his mind and know what he’s thinking. It also assumes that he has the time and energy to form a negative intent rather than what I perceive as the truth — he may be meeting his emotional needs in a way that doesn’t meet my emotional needs.

    But how much more powerful it is to say something like:

    “You know, John, I really like you and enjoy your company. And at the same time, right now I’m focused on meeting my life mate. It’s not clear to me what your intentions are in contacting me, but I assume they are friendly and well-meaning. Still … I have decided for my own well being to clear out emotional space in my life to meet a new guy, and right now receiving your texts and phone calls is not helping me do that. How does that land with you when I say that?”

    Or whatever language feels comfortable to each of us. But there’s no accusation in there, and no assumption that we know what he is thinking or intending.

    I tell you, I feel a much better and happier sensation in my body when my thought is “oh, he’s calling me, he enjoys me, he wants to connect” versus “oh, he’s calling me, he must be stringing me along.” And I prefer to go with the happy sensation because happiness begets better outcomes.

  188.  #188Rori Raye on June 23, 2009 at 9:33 am

    Wow – Karen, Thank you for your amazing story. You totally rock, and bless you for loving your daughters and yourself and changing your life. Love, Rori

  189.  #189Chanel on June 23, 2009 at 10:06 am

    Hi Sirens,

    I’m feeling like I have a different perspective on what happened, not asking anyone to agree, just offering a different point of view.

    a. I’m not sure how much of this happened because Jason was a man. It looks like women do a fine job of triggering eachother (lol!) and had a woman been asked to leave the discussion, it would have been upsetting to some of us as well, no? It would have created ripples and reactions too.

    I’ve belonged to forums mostly populated by men and the same stuff happens there. Most people are NOT good writers and don’t realize how their words could affect people in different circumstances. It’s very difficult not to step on other people’s toes. The “cum rag” comment triggered me very much, and I’m sure it wasn’t aimed at me at all.

    “Choose your words” is a very difficult thing to do so my stance is to assume that since my words don’t reflect what I mean 100%, the other writer’s words probably don’t either, so I give them some wiggle room.

    b. Erika, Jason’s explanation of why he kept exes in his life actually helped me forgive my FWB a little bit. I know that sounds odd, but I’ve spoken with 2 of my FWB’s ex-girlfriends and a man who dated another one of his exes and “picked up the pieces” after he left her. The consensus is that my FWB is a manipulating, lying bastard who doesn’t give a damn about anyone’s feelings but his own. These feelings were hurting ME, because we actually were friends (I was not his cum rag, thank you very much, lol!). Reading Jason’s account of why and how he was keeping exes in his life made me feel more forgiving towards my FWB. It made him less of an evil peeing man (lol!) and more of a human being. What I read in Jason’s account is that he wasn’t maliciously setting out to hurt people, which is what my FWB has been accused of doing.

    c. I’m not good at the feeling messages either, but I’m hoping to get better at them.

  190.  #190Nikita on June 23, 2009 at 10:06 am

    Ugh! Erika!

    that feels so awesome…..( to me thinking that way is presumptuous )….. I feel a deep YES!
    for me to assume the worst about a mans motivations or intentions feels yucky. I feel like being speculative about what’s in his mind is not respecting his boundaries. I feel disgust when I’m told what I’m “thinking”. I feel angry. I feel like being bad just to prove them right! I feel much better expecting the best from people.

    Nikita xxx

  191.  #191Rori Raye on June 23, 2009 at 10:28 am

    Jason – sorry as I am to see you go – can you see what’s happening here?

    There is really no way to give advice to anyone that has the possibility of resonating unless you’ve been there – and I know you’ve been there, just the other side of “there.”

    So I think the message is that no one wants to be told what to do, what to feel, or have their feelings and behaviors judged. (Except for me, of course, because I’m willing to be told off or simply not visited anymore…it’s my job to have an opinion…and still I wish to express myself in a way that lets you know I discovered this for myself, I’m not just pasting it on as a concept…)

    When a man posts here – there is already the possibility of “otherness.” That’s you, just because you are, to many of us, instinctively the “enemy.” And so, if you speak as an authority, you can’t help but come off as a “know it all.”

    Can you try it a different way? I truly believe if you would express this “darkness” of following obsession – I agree 100% with you here, by the way – we’d all love to hear how it was for you. This is an important message. there’s a big difference between taking yourself down the tunnel, experiencing the muck, and walking yourself out – and actually focusing on the muck. Seems like a small difference, but it’s actually huge. It cuts out all the rest of the discovery process.

    I will moderate a bit in here in other ways…Mostly – there is something going on in energy between Erika and JasonSavage, and Mercedes is a lightening rod, also.

    The question is, how do I create a safe space and also allow “mental” posting as well? Mercedes, I can’t force you into feeling messages you don’t feel comfortable with, and Jason, I can’t force you to become “coach-like” instead of “lecturer-like” because you’re ALSO talking from your own feelings. And I know we’d all miss your voices and an opportunity to respond to something we feel as “harsh.”

    What you say is totally driven by your feelings – and not just your feelings of wanting to be right, and respected, and heard. You are driven, and I thank you, to share your knowledge based on your own experience. And THAT is what we need to hear. Your experiences are the same as ours.

    Your CONCLUSIONS may be different.

    Where the disconnect happens, and we get testy and defensive, is when you make a decision that your conclusions are somehow right. That they somehow follow from your experience (forget “knowledge” – that can often be a crock of crap). And that because YOU’VE had some result, or seen others have some result – your conclusions are the reason.

    But we don’t hear other people through their conclusions. We hear them through their experience – and through OUR experience. When something resonates – it just DOES. Our brains aren’t involved.

    I know when I’m off, when I’m not heard, it’s because I somehow skipped the part about “this how it is for ME, and so I offer you my experience – let me know how it works for YOU.”

    And here’s the thing…when I talk to men – I am absolutely off-base. I’m absolutely out of my element, and guessing. When I talk to gay women, though the energy dynamics of a relationship are the same, I am completely off-base and guessing. I’m trying to APPLY principles to situations that are out of my actual experience – and that’s what’s happening here to you two.

    For Jason, you are a man, and we are women. So you have to be very thoughtful here – in order to be HEARD. And it seems to me this would be very helpful training for you in life…to try to hear a woman’s SOUL speaking to you, rather than hearing a request for assistance and then assisting from where YOU stand.

    There’s no way out of this other than walking through the mud of your own experience.

    Mercedes – I experience you as the steel rod of boundaries on this blog, and I honor you, even when it feels like tough-love and harshness, for it. I would only ask that you try the Feeling Message route, since you’re here, rather than saying you’re “not good at it.”

    If you’ve made a decision to, like Jason simply because he IS a man, be a “masculine” voice here – then you must find a way to talk “with” instead of “to” or “at” us in order to be heard the way you want. Try it, let me know personally how that goes. I know this comment is at the end, but it’s the only way I can reply. Now I’m going back in to read the rest…Love, Rori

    I honor everyone’s presence here, and to all who are offended or don’t feel safe when a post comes up that I’m not able to catch quickly enough…I will try…and yet – look at it this way:

    Even though, in the world, there is “harshness,” there is also a message in everything. The message to this is to say “ouch.” And see what comes your way to help you as you apply love to the triggered pain, so that you can be even MORE open in the face of it.

    If I miss something,

  192.  #192Rori Raye on June 23, 2009 at 10:29 am

    Tina – you’ve got it. You feel like responding in “stance,” masculine. Yayyy for you…Rori

  193.  #193Rori Raye on June 23, 2009 at 10:35 am

    Gina, I’m with you on the dark and light and the process. Love, Rori

  194.  #194Rori Raye on June 23, 2009 at 10:48 am

    Yayy, I figured out how to comment as I go along here. Mercedes…Jason isn’t just a “man” – he’s a professional in the relationship arena – helping men, and he rocks, totally. At least I see him as such, and I hope he will come back and post as well, and if he chooses not to, I will post his writing that I find helpful here. He is not gone (will do my best). I feel free to talk to him the way I would expect him to talk to me, and Erika is now in that same status. Jason, please give us your website here, so we can follow you…and I hope you will come back and weigh in, and yet would LOVE to hear your voice here as the “coach” you are, as you find your professional voice out there. Love, Rori

  195.  #195Rori Raye on June 23, 2009 at 10:51 am

    Erika, you are fabulous, and I’m thrilled to watch you, and Mercedes, and all of you discover your own voices out of your own feelings here. It’s as though everyone is becoming a “guru.” Finding your own way here, what works for YOU – and using my Tools to make the discoveries. I feel like I’m seeing a whole lot of new “mission statements” and “manifestos,” and it’s amazing. Love, Rori

  196.  #196Rori Raye on June 23, 2009 at 10:56 am

    I actually thought that we all responded to Jason wonderfully – as ourselves…and I hope to see him back. Again – in order for HIM to learn, also (why he came) – he has to find a way to get heard, just like the rest of us. His way, his masculine way, is different. It’s hard to explain in a short comment – but this is his work. What to do when confronted by a female voice who may or may not be speaking in a way HE can hear – this is why Jason came here, and I know this is where he can learn. On the other hand, there may be a reason we are not aware of that is causing him to back off. I trust Jason to do what feels best to him. Please, do not take responsibility for pushing him away. That is not how this happened. This is our lesson. To speak how we speak, and let what happens happen. Love, Rori

  197.  #197Rori Raye on June 23, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    Erika, Though I love your magnanimous approach, the peed on metaphor is not a hostile act, it’s a “marking” – it’s about “territory,” and it’s not about him, it’s about us…Everything I say is about us – it’s the way WE see it. Not necessarily you, Erika, but this is the way J in the letter is experiencing this. Motives are irrelevant here. A man wants your company. Nothing wrong there. He wants your company when he wants it, no strings attached. Nothing wrong there. Yet, many men doing exactly this get very huffy around it. Many men, as many women, also – are NOT interested in contributing, but in taking. Survival comes first, then contribution – and many of us are still, due to trauma, in survival mode. I am so glad you are where you are…but when we are not there, when we are NOT feeling magnanimous…I want to say that it’s crucial to be where you are, experience how you are feeling, what your attachment feels like, and go from there. J, if she was to attempt to feel magnanimous, would lose all sense of her boundaries, excuse and “understand” – and drive her anger even further underground. Step by step out of the tunnel. Love, Rori

  198.  #198Rori Raye on June 23, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    Yep – all are big boys and can handle themselves…Rori Now – we have to hook this up with the Tools of attraction, openness, connection…

  199.  #199Rori Raye on June 23, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    Mercedes – forgive me for the comment I made earlier without reading all of your comments – so far – I think you’re totally fabulous, feeling, coach-like, real – let me find the problem here…rori

  200.  #200Linmayu on June 23, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    Wow! I feel completely overwhelmed and left behind, but this discussion–or what I’ve skimmed of it–feels fascinating.

    I feel surprised Jason lasted as long as he did; it’s been my experience that a man surrounded by women who are being their full, uninhibited Goddess selves tends to completely shut down and withdraw rather quickly.

  201.  #201Linmayu on June 23, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    Surprised and impressed, that is. 😀

  202.  #202Rori Raye on June 23, 2009 at 1:31 pm

    Gina – Thank you for expressing this. I think that one of the most important things I can talk about is conflict. I have to decide now, what is safety? can we learn from conflict? Is the trade-off worth it? Let’s try this for a day or two – everyone who wants to be a girl and learn how to handle conflict with Feeling Messages and riffing and feel safe – no matter WHAT anyone else is saying – I say that you are safe, even if someone criticizes you. In other words, let’s try to create safety within ourselves – and just as a directive from me – that I will not judge you or analyze you no matter WHAT.

    As for me, I love a good argument, and I don’t mind at all that Mercedes disagrees with me. I like that disgruntled voices come in here…and still – I don’t want you to do it the way Mercedes likes to do it. I say, Mercedes – your choice, your preference, I’m not talking about your abilities…and I welcome you here however you like to show up.

    I still think that getting triggered is the most wonderful thing that can happen, and that ultimately, no matter what, this IS a safe place, because, even if you don’t hear from me (this goes so fast, and I’m writing so much every day…) – I will eventually find you and be there for you. So…

    Let’s try that for a few days (please don’t bail during this experiment). Mercedes and Jason, or whoever wants to be a masculine, brain-centered voice here (that’s what I am) – please post the way you like…and for everyone who wants to talk like a “girl” – do that and practice WITH these other voices. Clearly – this is a gift. The point is – you can keep doing what you’re doing, use your masculine voice (and if you want to be a professional ‘guru” that’s the way you have to go, perhaps) and stay stuck where you are — or you can USE this (like Circular Dating) to develop even MORE of your “girl” abilities and energies.

    And if it doesn’t work – if it doesn’t feel safe and promoting and helpful…I’ll lay down some RULES FOR POSTING. Sound like a plan? Love, Rori

  203.  #203Rori Raye on June 23, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    Erika, this is lovely…would you like to tell the whole story here? Rori

  204.  #204Rori Raye on June 23, 2009 at 1:42 pm

    Mercedes – my question to you is…what do you want? What do (or did) you want here? Do you want help with your relationship, or do you wish more to be helpful? I hear that for the most part you are happy and powerful in your relationship, and that you more wish to be helpful. To that end, your blog, which I admire you doing and encourage you to stay true to yourself. Because, if what you want is to be useful and helpful…in order to do that, you first have to be HEARD. You will have your own followers. Those 14 women who emailed you are your followers. As you speak in your voice, you will draw in women who want what you have to offer – which is very much about boundaries and inner strength.

    Though boundaries come first, and I talk about them all the time, I am even more about softness (which REQUIRES boundaries and strength). And so there is a conflict, a chasm you need to leap in order to be heard here. You have to speak to the softness as well as to the strength. I hope you come back to try that on, while still speaking from your own heart and developing your own following. Everything you have to say here is helpful. And you will trigger us. There is no other way. Let’s not any of us be afraid of this…let’s see what happens. I love you all and all your voices – they are all necessary. For me, Softness is the deeper expression of strength. For me, it is an evolution. A more evolved place. I aim a bit for what Erika is talking about – and yet I know that’s just a mental place if you don’t FEEL there. I am not about leaps. I am about baby steps. Mercedes is baby-stepping with us, and yet, Mercedes, I believe you aspire to more, to teach. So I encourage you to come back and explore all around your voice so you can reach more than your natural “choir.” Love, Rori

  205.  #205Daria on June 23, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    Umm I feel furious. I feel a little calmed by seeing Rori’s comments at the end.

    I was feeling like a big rock cliff in the ocean. Now i feel like a volcano.

    Umm this is the side of me that feels really powerful and intimidating. This side of me says I dont give a fuck if you like me and I will laugh in your face.

    I feel REALLY rageful right now and feel like attacking.

    I feel triggered majorly about women…

    voice says “this is why I don’t make friends with women because they turn all prissy when I stand up for myself and act real… they want to be all ‘hard’ but can’t take it when I show my ‘hard’ side’ ”

    thank you nv. This by the way seems very specific and not general. This is OFF… this is a TRIGGER. This trigger is not true. Thank you.

    I feel really protected by some people. I feel apologetic towards some people. And I feel infuriated, subtly provoked by other people.

    I feel angry that other people feel insulted by my feelings. I FEEL very defensive.

    I Knew this would happen I felt like being controversial on the blog. I feel ANGRY.

    I feel amused thinking about letting my masculine energy out right now haha…

    my masculine energy says this is BS and not worth taking my time to worry about petty bullshit…

    ok thank you masculine side…

    I feel like i am attacking and I don’t know exactly why.

    I feel ENERGIZED.

    i feel PoWERFUl.

    And i feel attacked..

    this feels weird.

    I am a very ‘strong’ intimidating person besides being childlike and joyful as I have noticed myself on this blog.

    I intimidate the hell out of a lot of ‘scary’ men and can dominate them mentally.

    Ok I feel interested that this side of me is coming out on this blog. I feel like a rag doll that has been torn open in the front from top to bottom and all my filling is spilling out.

    I feel hard in my mouth and kinda stony…

    inside i feel shaky and scared (what?? really??)

    I feel so interested in this.

    I feel concerned about triggering others – I feel guilty I feel like I am using you and triggering you to heal myself –

    I felt triggered about the cum rag ew because yeah I was a friend and waited around for the guy while he had a girlfriend… and ew i dont feel like i was a cum rag… i dont mind who made that comment i dont feel triggered by the person just the comment…

    I feel trigggered and judgemental of certain comments

    i feel lost like im spinning in my head…

    I feel overwhelmed…

    I feel disconnected

    AHA… It’s my ‘numb’ and spinny feeling that comes when i feel attacked…


    I feel interested…

    I feel just really pist offf I feel like yelling at Mercedes…

    I feel like attacking… I feel kinda stuck

    i’m feeling “worked up”

    I’m feeling competitive and bring it on type of feeling…

    I feel dominant??

    i feel ridiculous
    i feel scared to say i feel dominant… i feel bad trying to dominate… i want to feel equal and harmonious

    a part of me also wants to feel amazing and powerful…

    I feel really interested in this and embracing this part of me…

    I feel love for this part of me… I feel awe… I feel like looking up to a talll talll cliff…

    I feel amazed and awed and glad this part of me is on my side.

    Im gonna tell this part of me im in charge and give it a rose.

    hi i love you… and im in charge… and i know youre a huge awesome clifff… and i want to give you this rose… I feel so protected by you… thank you…

    the cliff makes a booming laughing sound…

    I want to be friends… what do you think… the cliff feels pleased… its like an old strong tree spirit… thank you… can you please help me be more whole? Yes the cliff will help me…


    I feel weird and uncomfortable and embarassed in my mouth…

    I love my mouth feelings…

    that feels like a sigh..

    I had a feeling of feeling very masculine for a second… like being a pua contributing member… i feel tightness in my butt haha… i feel embarassed…

    I used to be very masculine… I feel tight and stuck…

    I also used to be very girly girl too without realizing it… I am finally embracing my soft side as you all have seen… I feel weird in my mouth… I feel good now feeling girly girl… that feels acceptable…

    I feel weird being big cliff… that feels cold unattainable hard rocky too big not attractive to a man… I love my feelings… I love my unattractive feeling… i love the tightness in my mouth and the slow time despair feeling of being a cliff wanting to be loved… I lvoe my cliff… thank you cliff… heres a rose… my cliff takes the rose… i feel lonely… lonely for a long time… I love my lonelyl feeling… I love the sinking feeling… the stuck feeling… the nameless feeling of being in one place forever until i slowly erode… I love my feeling of time passing me by and breaking my heart… I love my feeling of heartbreak… I love my tightness in my mouth… i feel so weird… I love my weird feeling… and that feels like a little sunshine and a smile… I love my sunshine and smile feeling and the deep feeling of sadness… or whatever that is… quiet desperation… loss… not quite emptyness just hard rocky hugeness… I love my hard rocky hugeness… I feel alone… and peaceful yet alone alone alone… I love my alone feeling… that feels like quietness and heartbreak… I love my quietness and heartbreak… I love my Hungover feeling… of just laying down face on the earth… or the rock… I love my laying down on the ground feeling… my i give up im defeated nothing will be better feeling… my i want to lie down at the bottom of the barrell feeling… I LOVE this feeling… I love my feeling of being alone at the bottom… rock bottom.. I feel alone and i am laying on it all alone… with no one to botther me… some rest… I love my resting feeling… that feels like interest in rest… maybe i need more thorough rest… hmmm… i’ve been thinking that… I love my interest feeling and my interest in rocky rest… I love the weird way my heart feels when i think of rocky rest… thank you heart… that feels like scaredness… scaredness of sadness… of disappointment… like waking up knowing that so and so is still in jail and so and so might still be sick and so and so is still not taking care of his son and so and so is still unhappy and so and so still think that you are a failure and so and so is still stuck stuck stuck and life pours over all of it like sticky blood and blah… that feels weird and icky…

    i feel like a vampire now….
    gross its like i can taste blood and it feels weird…

    do i need to hug a rock or something…??

    i feel weird…
    i love my feeling of weirdness… and that feels like… sparkle focus in my eyes..

    i love the sparkle focus in my eyes… andt hat feels like… pinching in my back that everythign is not alright (i dont want to be reminded that everything is not all right but my body reminds me) I love my body and my frustration… i want to focus on the GOOD UGHHHHHHHH

    i feel frustrated…

    I love my frustration and that feels like a sigh of relief…

    i feel my ‘reminder’ again as a heavinesss in my mouth i love my heaviness… i love the feelings i think are bad too… i love all of me right now… i am surrounding the cliff with a big bubble yum butterball of joy and love… i love my butterball of joy and love… i feel good…

    i feel triggered thinking of women emailing mercedes to speak up for them feeling insulted by my feelings…

    I feel turned on…

    i feel haughty…

    I feel like blank wall cliff…

    i feel defensive maybe?


    I feel defensive and i want to feel good…

    i feel weird in my mouth and i love it

    I feel absolutely defiant and I feel encased in insect exoskeleton…

    I feel tight… i feel weird… i love my insect exoskeleton protection…

    I feel judgemental and superior… i feel weird… i feel like this must be a defense.. i feel interested in getting into the deep feelings and triggers here…

    and i feel like resting…

    in a forest…

    thank you i will nap in my forest now where i feel safe and loved…

  206.  #206Nikita on June 23, 2009 at 1:49 pm

    How Koooool was that 🙂
    Thx Rori

  207.  #207Nikita on June 23, 2009 at 2:15 pm


    I couldn’t …. Ok didn’t finish reading your most recent post bit I had a flash of feeling about your style of writing. I feel that you have a deep creative voice. I wonder if you’ve ever considered writing childrens books? Ok that might feel corny but I see your posts like paintings. If I was a little girl again I feel one of your stories might have helped me with my rage. My angry feelings at feeling like just a helpless little girl…… Ok I’m going to finish reading it now. I felt I might forget that flash of inspiration if I didn’t act now 🙂

  208.  #208Daria on June 23, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    Thank you so much Nikita… I feel really validated reading your comment.

    I really want to write a Fantasy book.

    with magic and fantastic animals and big magical struggles and triumph and love and amazement and ooh beauty.

  209.  #209Daria on June 23, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    Im wanting to “release the struggle”

  210.  #210Nikita on June 23, 2009 at 2:49 pm


    yeahhhh….. Fantasy book. That feels so right for what I was feeling when I read your stuff. Thank you for making me feel not corny and like I do have real intuitive moments. I feel validated too 🙂

    Now, I feel as though I want to write to Gina about something…..mmmm….struggle-release the inner struggle nikita

  211.  #211Nikita on June 23, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    I feel weird. I felt yummy reading your response to me last night.
    I felt a little bitchy towards my sweetie last night ( just to clarify )
    But I felt protective of you. I did not feel much bitchiness in your posts. But I did feel major bitchiness when reading the post from mercedes to you. I felt like; hey, that feels really unfair! I felt you trying to maintain team-spirit. I feel almost jealous that mercedes shares her feeling messages with her partner and I feel we get stuck with her masculine energy. I do feel a little stuck reading her thoughts and opinions. I feel baited even though she’s not addressing me directly. I feel that the feminine side of mercedes is what’s really interesting here. I feel triggered by the word interesting… feels very intellectual. I don’t rest here for my intellect. I’m here for my heart. I also feel like Daria….”like a yeah, it’s cool if _______ wants to go all boy/brain/defensive/thinky/man like-but if I or_________does it then attack them. I feel like yeah, I can be a real bitch too but from my experience; that’s the east way out or in. I have been told by men that I am scary strong/capable of anything. But what feels true and beautiful is that I AM VERY capable of this soft pink gooey spiritual love-potion like words. I worked very hard to translate my thoughts into authentic zen-ish expression and I feel very impatient with excuses.
    Humbly yours;

  212.  #212heartbeat on June 23, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    Wow Daria – ACE riff, star – thank you! xx

  213.  #213heartbeat on June 23, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    Dock – I feel like holding your hand after reading your post. Yeah I recognise the sort of day where the NV takes hold, the feeling in the pit of my stomach, the relentless thinking and scenarios playing out in my mind – well that’s how it is for me, it’s real deep scary stuff. For what it’s worth, I found it totally helpful to put my hand on an object (table, book, glass etc – something cool feels good to me) this is a great Rori Tool. And focus on the texture, temperature etc. When I shift to my physical senses, I find the NV’s hold on me loosens and I can walk myself through. Hope you’re feeling more at ease this evening (oh hey it’s evening here tho maybe not where you are!) xx

  214.  #214Daria on June 23, 2009 at 3:48 pm

    Thank you Heartbeat…

    wow Nikita thank you love the post especially the end where you said I worked very hard to translate thoughts into beautiful authentic love potion words…

    ditto… lovely…

    oooh i love the love potion words image

    reminds me a of a Deniece Williams song “Free”

    whispering in his ear… my magic potion for looove…

  215.  #215heartbeat on June 23, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    Rori – you are an AMAZING woman. I’m nodding, feeling clearer and thankful for your input xxxx

    All – I’m off to bed now – bummer! – have learnt a lot today, feel fulsome and sleepy. Night night xxxx

  216.  #216gina on June 23, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    Daria, It was funny reading your post with the visuals of you rising up as a steep cliff. Last night, when I was trying to articulate from my point of view what I felt when I was triggered by your comments, I couldn’t identify the feeling, but I had a very clear visual of you as the sea monster in The Little Mermaid. When she rises up and she’s like “BWAHAHA. YOU PITIFUL FOOLS!!” I wanted to launch a trident and see the sea monster collapse in a poof, and what would be left would be a beautiful strong but vulnerable woman.

    But there was an inner struggle – I also felt myself morphing like the incredible Hulk – I wanted to rise up big and defeat you. But as I felt myself contorting, I was like “NOooo! Use the Trident!” But I’d say I described the Trident (articulating a “manifesto”), but that I didn’t actually reach Daria with it. Sounds like I just pissed her off some more. I feel uncomfortable sharing the green sea monster visual. Daria, you said people were triggered by your feelings. And I’m saying that I felt threatened by your tone. Damnit, I guess that sums it up. Yes! I felt threatened! Man between visuals and sensations and everything else, it’s hard to identify a feeling and put it in words.

  217.  #217Ann on June 23, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    Rori thank you it felt good to read your comments on this post. For me it feels good to read how others experience things from their point of view. I feel this has been one of the most triggering post I’ve read here. It must have alot to teach.

    Mercedas I will miss you’re input here but as long as I have internet I will stay in contact by email and/or your blog.

    I feel I benefit from alot of different people and things. I hope when something here or wherever REALLY triggers me I’ll remember to speak from my feelings and experiences in a non blaming way.

    Lots of good feeling vibes to all female & male.

  218.  #218Daria on June 23, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    Gina I did not feel pist off some more about your comments. I feel guilty that you felt threatened and bad… I felt that as soon as you said you feel bad…

    I felt pist off some more by mercedes’ last post.

    I feel hot in my tummy.

    I feel comfortable with the sea monster image… hehe..
    i feel like I am threatening and have the evil sea monster laugh thing in my head sometimes…

    I think that its my defensiveness…

    My defensiveness is very I don’t give a fuck about your feelings type of defensiveness…

    I am interested in embracing my defensiveness… I feel glad that you shared the sea monster image… I feel tense being triggered to my defenses and I feel glad it’s happening on the blog where it feels safe…

    I feel like this is a BIG thing for me and feeling it out and embracing it will change my life…

    I was earlier getting a middle school clique like feeling about the blog.. which felt buzzy and good to feel included and also triggered my “mean” you’re out im in type of feeling…

    I feel glad this is all happenig on blog…

    I feel protectiveness of Gina…

    I feel worried and guilty about saying i felt pist off some more by mercedes’ last post… I feel resentment and anger and also I don’t want to push Mercedes away I feel really weird with my anger I feel like I am holding it in my hand…

    It feels like holding coals… heheh…

    I dont’ feel like im holding coals really… that feels too visualy…

    I feel calm, and tense in my solar plexus… and scared… which feels like a wash of semi-nausea cold feeling from head down really fast…

  219.  #219Daria on June 23, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    Any thoughts on embracing… using… this threatening tone I have ?

    i feel cold and aloof and above all people sometimes when i feel this tone…

    it feels good because i feel powerful and dominant… it also feels cold and hard …

    i feel scared it won’t be attractive to men! aaag

    I embrace my fear…. i love my fear… i love my powerful threatening power and intimidation and wanting to be above better stronger than others… i love myself… it feels like tension in my tummy and nose and frozen face… that feels like a little release and more frozen face… i love my frozen fce and that feels like tingling in my upper tummy… i love my tingling in my upper tummy and that feels like a little smile and tightness in my shoulder and cheekbone… i feel angry and scared in my shoulder and cheeckbone and i love my anger fear, shoulder and cheekbone… hehe i feel sillly and i lov emy sillyiness and that feels like hotness on my face and flwoing thru and i love my hotness andt hat feels like.. sigh… i love my sighing… tat feels like relaxing a little and dizzy head… i love my relaxing and dizzy head… and that feels like… disappointment and i love my disappointment and that feels like… being very tired…

    i feel tired… ive been up a lot at nite…

    im gonna meditate which helps my tiredness i love my tiredness… and that feels like.. heart beating in my cheek… i love my heart beating in my cheek and that feels like… smug weird smile… i love my smug weird smile and that feels like… more smug weird smile i love my smug weird smile and that feels like… guilt… and i love my guilt and that feels like a sigh i love my sigh and that feels like… bubbly in my tummy and smiling which feels joyful and fun and good… yay… i love my yay feeling and that feels… like giggling… i love my giggling and that feels like funnny cute noises… i love my funny cute noises and that feels like relaxation… i love my relaxation… and that feels like smiling… i feel like smiling kind hard… and i love my hard smile and that feels like super smiling hehe … i love my super smiling and my feeling tight in my cheeks from it… i love my tight cheeks and that feels like… so good… in my tummy and head and i feel goooooodd… yay… i love my feel good feelings… that feels like yawning… and i love my yawn…

    mm i feel kinda melted somewhat

  220.  #220Erika on June 23, 2009 at 8:15 pm

    I mentioned this to Jason privately and thought it worth mentioning to you all as well …

    When I first started posting on RSD Nation (which is a seduction website for men), I received a similar response as Jason received here. It took a while and a lot of feather smoothing (and what we in the seduction community call “calibration”) for them to accept me. In fact, they didn’t even believe I was a real girl. Some thought I was a guy posing as a girl because girls are too scared to go on there and because I knew all the pickup artist lingo … lol 🙂

    Nowadays it’s different … if one of the guys on the forum says something obnoxious to me, another guy will speak up and protect me right away. It’s nice 🙂

  221.  #221Erika on June 23, 2009 at 8:23 pm

    They also told me I had to post pictures of myself and show my tits or GTFO.

    At least we didn’t do that to Jason, lol 😉

  222.  #222gina on June 23, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    Daria, I don’t want you to feel alone with your defense mechanisms – I feel lotsa love and compassion for you. I feel touched that you were feeling protective of me. I respect that you were willing to take a look at my sea monster vision. I like your voice very much. I love your creativity and passion.

    Even though it didn’t feel good, this experience was helpful to me cause I have my own defense mechanisms, and this was an opportunity to be on the other side. I know I can be a bully sometimes. Especially to my roommate. I hate to admit that! Sometimes I get a kick out of myself being all bratty and condescending. Once she almost moved out cause I was being so hostile. We talked and she told me that she wants to throw me out the window when I act like that. And I realized that I don’t want people to fantasize about killing me. And I don’t want to hurt people and make them mad for no good reason. I don’t want all my relationships to suffer because of my defense mechanisms. My defensive holier-than-thou act isn’t producing results that I want. Its a way that I deal with feelings I am uncomfortable with. There are other options – that’s actually the main reason I’m here – i want to trust the deepest feelings that I have. Cause I feel them coming up convoluted sometimes. Expressing pure feeling is scary and vulnerable.
    Daria, my thoughts are only that I’m right here with you, going through uncomfortable stuff to learn and grow.

  223.  #223Ann on June 23, 2009 at 9:07 pm

    This is a little off topic ladies but I was googling around the web tonight.

    Click on my name to go to my blog. The 7 quick tips to remember, I found go with Rori’s tool I feel. I would post them here but I want to give the link to the site they came from.

  224.  #224Ann on June 23, 2009 at 9:09 pm

    I will be away from the computer for a few days look forward to following from my mobile.

  225.  #225JasonSavage on June 23, 2009 at 9:12 pm

    Mirror, mirror, on the web….

    “I mentioned this to Jason privately and thought it worth mentioning to you all as well…”

    I mentioned to this to you as well…

    To visit Siren Island, you must merely be courageous enough to find it, and curious enough to enter. It is similar to a woman visiting Savage Island or really any island in the Powerfully Ultimate Archipelago. She is welcomed as a great curiosity.

    “When I first started posting on RSD Nation (which is a seduction website for men), I received a similar response as Jason received here. It took a while and a lot of feather smoothing (and what we in the seduction community call “calibration”) for them to accept me. In fact, they didn’t even believe I was a real girl. Some thought I was a guy posing as a girl because girls are too scared to go on there and because I knew all the pickup artist lingo … lol ”

    That is funny because I have thought a lot of the guys in these forums were women posing as men because they came across as very feminine. I really thought they
    were girls trying to sneak into the locker room.

    Anyway, as soon as we merge communities, we’ll see that there is no such thing as ‘battle between the sexes’ and other such nonsense.

    Jason Savage

  226.  #226Daria on June 23, 2009 at 9:51 pm

    Yeah… I was gonna suggest a Battle of the Blogs type thing yesterday…

    now maybe instead a Party of the Blogs… woo hoo…

  227.  #227Karen on June 24, 2009 at 1:02 am

    I feel like I must be the oldest person who ever posted on Rori’s site. I have lived through so much, but I have so much left to learn. I feel tense and sad right now, so I’m going to go back to my cave until I have experienced my emotions to their fullest.

  228.  #228DocK on June 24, 2009 at 6:38 am

    Heartbeat – feel grateful to you for holding my hand. I sure need it now and also feel grateful and welcoming of your advice.

    Karen, your story, amazing, thank you for sharing.

  229.  #229Mercedes on June 24, 2009 at 8:57 am

    Rori: Because of your email, I’m posting this comment. You asked the question “What do you (did you) want here?”. Sometimes, yes, I wanted help with my relationship (even if I took my own advice, I wanted to be able to talk through it with other women). All of the time I wanted to be able to learn and grow and have the reinforcement needed to not make the mistakes I used to make. Sometimes I wanted to help. Sometimes I wanted to listen. Sometimes I wanted to be challenged. Sometimes I wanted to challenge. All of the time I wanted to be able to be ME without anyone trying to change me or mold me into something I’m not.

    A side job of mine is working with teenage girls. I counsel and mentor and teach. I show them strength and confidence and the power and honor of being a woman. I’ve heard stories here of incredibly low self esteem, lack of self respect, lack of motivation, “poor me” attitudes and feelings of utter loss, abandonment, despair and fear.

    I would love to be able to do what I do (and in the way I do it) and address these things and help women through them and encourage them and yes…get a little tough on them sometimes. I would love to be able to do that in MY voice and using MY words and by being ME.

    Sometimes (and I emphasize the word “sometimes”), I disagree with what you say because I think it takes women back too far and it encourages a loss of power and strength. Now…before anyone goes crazy on me over that sentence…please understand…Rori: I’m not saying that’s how you mean it, I’m just saying that from my experience, it may not always work (with every man) the way you want it to. I handle things differently (like the example from another thread of my unwillingness to change a dress my man doesn’t like and you saying you would absolutely change). Being able to tell what I would do…to talk about what works with my man vs your man…well…that can be helpful.

    But…it doesn’t work here because it’s a disagreement with you.

    You said this: “As for me, I love a good argument, and I don’t mind at all that Mercedes disagrees with me. I like that disgruntled voices come in here…and still – I don’t want you to do it the way Mercedes likes to do it. I say, Mercedes – your choice, your preference, I’m not talking about your abilities…and I welcome you here however you like to show up.”

    I hear you. And I’ve heard you say that to me before. Time and time again, you’ve welcomed my voice when it doesn’t agree with something you say. Over and over you’ve encouraged me to keep challenging you and asking questions and asking you to show me why/how you feel the way you do. You’ve welcomed me and my personality with open arms.

    Here’s what happens to me when I do that. These are direct quotes, said to me and about me, from this thread alone (and there have been many other threads with similar results):

    “I felt frustrated with your masculine analyzing”

    “I feel amused, but worried that my words were hurtful to Mercedes.” (amused at hurting someone???)

    “I feel just really pist offf I feel like yelling at Mercedes…”

    “But I did feel major bitchiness when reading the post from mercedes to you.”

    “I feel almost jealous that mercedes shares her feeling messages with her partner and I feel we get stuck with her masculine energy” (“stuck” with me the way I am???)

    “I felt pist off some more by mercedes’ last post. ”

    “i feel blown away with a big wtf when someone complains about the blog feeling unsafe while at the same time refuses to use feeling messages and says what have feeling messages”

    “Mercedes, I feel frustrated at the way you are accusing Rori when we don’t even know what happened. ”

    And those are just a few…

    So you see…this is what happens when one woman here disagrees with you and challenges you. This is what happens when one woman follows your rules and directs anger at YOU rather than someone else.

    This how you explained it to me on another thread:

    “Whoa – I LOVE this emotion and fire!! Mercedes – I hear all your fire aimed at me, and thank you for aiming it at me and not at Tinque – though because she’s a post here and a blogger herself and not a commenter – she’s fair game, I appreciate you holding to my rule about no judging or masculine energy opinions around other comments – I want this to be a totally, absolutely safe place, and I’ll delete any comments that I feel make other commenters feel unsafe.”

    Then later you said:

    “Mercedes – you’re an amazing woman, and I can hear the strength of you – your ability to draw boundaries and express yourself. I’m thrilled to hear your righteous anger and flat-out distaste – and again would like to encourage you to aim your anger at me rather than at anyone else here.”

    At the time, I assumed you were talking to all of us and you were setting a boundary that I knew I would respect at all costs. But I’ve come to believe, that boundary is only for women like me who have masculine voices and won’t hold thoughts and words hostage behind a feeling message.

    If I could be rude and hurtful and call names and belittle…but at the same time use the words “I feel” then maybe I could do the same thing.

    I can’t do it Rori. It’s not my style. I ask that you respect just how much I’ve held back here. From what you know of me and from what you’ve “met” as far as my personality goes, what do you think the real Mercedes would say if a woman called her a major bitch?

    Well…I wasn’t really called a major bitch.

    There was a feeling message.

    “I did feel major bitchiness” was the quote.

    It was directed at me and it was rude and childish. I can’t stop that in it’s tracks because my response would have needed to be “I feel rude and childish name calling being used toward me and that makes me feel angry.”

    Does that sound like me being authentic?

    That’s just one example. I’ve held my tongue soooo many times out of respect for your boundary.

    At the very least here, can someone see, when things are like that for me, that I TOTALLY respect Rori’s wishes? Can someone see that I need to use my blog or “find my followers” on another blog? I can’t be myself here (no matter how much you invite me to Rori) and I can’t be heard, because I can’t be permitted to stand up for myself and say what I think.

    On other parts of the web, I can comment and talk and be direct and tell it like it is and take care of myself when someone resorts to name calling and defensive mud slinging. Here…I cannot do that because no matter what I say or how I say it (unless maybe if I forced myself to talk in feeling messages – no matter how uncomfortable and fake that is for me), when I don’t agree with you or when I follow your directive and aim my anger at you…I’m going to be attacked.

    It’s not that I don’t appreciate your blog and welcome any challenge anytime. I really do and will always be reading and learning. But my voice doesn’t belong here. My words don’t belong here. Even those women who do want me to tell it to them exactly like it is know and understand that this isn’t the place for it. That’s why they contact me privately.

    This area of the blog can be called “safe”, and it may very well be “safe”, but it’s only welcoming and comfortable when we agree with you and speak the language you want us to speak. I don’t always feel that way. I am a woman…but I’m different than a lot of other women here. All I was asking for was respect for my differences. I didn’t hear anyone asking Jason to speak in feeling messages. Why should I…just because I’m a woman? Why should I be asked (by others, not you Rori) to conform to a mold that doesn’t feel good to me? Why should I be asked to change?

    Much Love,

  230.  #230DocK on June 24, 2009 at 10:35 am

    Hi Mercedes,

    I had tried to post something before – couple of times things didn’t get through and don’t know why.

    Even though I know that no one will be around this blog forever, people will come and go for various reasons, I had said that I am most bothered, though, when I feel that I lose voices because the person feels unwelcome, unsafe, unheard, ignored or whatever.

    I have posted things before – even asked a question that sometimes didn’t get a single response. I guess, I chalked it up to getting in the middle of a thread that had people more focused on something else and it just kind of got lost, so I didn’t take it personally and figured if it was that important to me, I would just re-post later – usually time took care of my issue and I didn’t need the input.

    In your case, however, I do feel that SOME people took some “cracks” at you and I feel sorry about that because it did feel personal. I feel I want to give the benefit of the doubt that maybe that wasn’t the intention but even if it wasn’t, it felt hurtful to read some of it.

    I have, and maybe all of us do, at times play devil’s advocate in my mind with some of the tools. They are hard for me. I am beginning to toy with the idea myself that I am actually more comfortable being masculine energy although I have felt happy to come here and practice the feeling messages – I wouldn’t give them up entirely (and I know that you have balance of this in your own relationship).

    I have landed with a couple of toxic guys in my past, but I also have had guys that adored me and were good to me. I think a lot of how I had been doing relationships worked for me. I wanted to add in some alternatives and have been pursuing lots of ways to be a healthy partner in a relationship.

    I know the “poor me” was not directed at me but I wanted to say that I feel frustrated with myself because I think I am on this spiritual quest to change the parts of myself I feel need changing and it is hard to know how to do that and still be “me.” This has caused me to feel sad and frustrated – and losing a primary relationship has been hard as well.

    I used to be so hard in all the wrong ways – growing up in rough neighborhood, marrying young and so on – put up lots of walls and barriers. Everything I have gone through has made me build character. When I was in grad school a fellow student was upset about her sister being young and pregnant. I was able to say to her, ‘you know I am almost done with my doctorate right? well, I was young and pregnant too – don’t ever give up on anyone’ and say it without feeling shame.

    Mercedes, I have valued your input and advice. The young women you work with are lucky to have your voice and help and women here are lucky to have Rori too.

  231.  #231Linmayu on June 24, 2009 at 10:35 am

    I feel defensive of Mercedes.I for one would be happy to let her be a boy and be triggered by her.

    I feel defensive of her because I’m masculine too. I feel so jealous of Daria’s riffs and judgmental of my own; they get the job done but they are not soft. I feel so hard and crusty and prickly, and I don’t even want to be soft. I want to lean forward and yell, like if I yell LOUD enough then someone will understand me.

    I felt a kinship with Jason, and he’s truly a special case. I do NOT like men at all. Yeah, I said it. I hate men, loathe them, feel horrible around all of them all the time. I feel judged, or completely ignored and unheard and unseen, or afraid I’m GOING to be judged and then ignored. When my husband was courting me, I felt amazing around him, but I still felt all those awful feelings around all his friends, no matter how nice they were to me.

    I have not felt good around a man since. Even when an absolutely adorable man is putting his energy towards me, telling me everything I want to hear, I still feel scared. I feel worried that this won’t last. I feel scared that he’s going to claim me and pee on me and diminish me. I feel scared that he’s going to take me over and then I won’t be there anymore.

    I liked Jason because he felt like a shining voice of wisdom. (That means a man who is expressing the Masculine in the way *I* think the Masculine ought to be expressed, haha.) Because day after day I am surrounded by men who express the Masculine in ways I don’t like. I feel like I’m always caught in the crossfire in a pissing contest. I feel very unwelcome and unwanted. And then I judge MYSELF for being unwanted by THEM. Really? Am I worth less because some 10-year-old boy doesn’t know what to do with me?

    I feel so very tired of letting the world define me, and so very frustrated. I want to feel seen and loved and HEARD…and I feel like my head is so full of cotton that even God can’t hear me. I love you cottony head. I feel so full of fears and thoughts. So full. Drop them down to my pelvis and they all get on the elevator to go back up.

    At my core, I feel only fear. I feel like I’m nothing on the inside, nothing but opposing fears fighting each other. I want to feel like I’m light inside. That would feel like stillness, perfect stillness, no more being buffeted around by the wind even though it rages all around me. It feels like calm, quiet, upright strength, not the strength that comes from steel girders and buttresses, but the simple upright strength of a daisy stem–enough strength to hold itself up, and no more–and enough faith to just keep reaching towards the sun, knowing that it has all the strength it needs.

    I feel two voices around my neck, asking me, “Really? Are you SURE you have all the strength you need? I think you need more. I think you need this armor to protect yourself.”

    Yes, I have all I need, even if my mind doesn’t believe it yet. My body believes it even though my head doesn’t want to. My body feels hard and tired with too much muscle and effort. It wants to relax but doesn’t believe it’s allowed. I am going to put on some lovely meditation music and just lie here and go completely soft and relaxed. I’ll catch you all later, that is, if I ever feel like catching up with the speed of this discussion…mmmm.

  232.  #232Mercedes on June 24, 2009 at 11:18 am

    DocK and Linmayu: Thank you so much for your kind words. I’m sorry I can’t say more than that here but I’m REALLY not comfortable with it.

    I would love to elaborate though and if I had your email I would, so if you’re comfortable, my email is

    Much Love,

  233.  #233alias girl on June 24, 2009 at 3:41 pm

    just what am i a lightning rod for?

    I am asking myself.

    What do i wish to be a lightning rod for?

    This is very current in my life right now. I feel excited about this.

    I feel very alias girl of arc. 🙂

    i feel people deride and scorn me publically with gossip but secretly wish they could be more like me. hah. even if that is delusional i feel it is true a little. I feel good about my choices.

    I feel i am a blessing to any environment. even if they mock and ridicule me. right within hearing distance.

    I feel unbothered. i feel plugged in. i feel on my horse. on my road to happily ever after.

    i feel finally uninterested to find the all the reasons why not. I feel good and strong to focus on why i can.

  234.  #234heartbeat on June 24, 2009 at 4:36 pm


    I’m feeling very powerfully about this blog. I want to speak to you from a place of Experience.

    This is not about masculine/feminine – it is about Identity (Ego). I don’t mean Ego in common parlance, I mean it in the sense of our definition of ourselves.

    You have a very strong Identity, an identity that includes having strong boundaries, rules and sticking up for yourself. I sense a great deal of vulnerability too – you feel attacked here.

    But this blog is THERAPY.

    I show my feelings, my weaknesses, my murky depths, my joys, my fears. That’s what this blog is for.

    Sometimes it’s painful and scary going through this process. And it can feel painful and scary witnessing others going through that too. Sometimes I want to turn away, or shake someone up, or I feel jealous, or I feel irritated.

    Sometimes it’s humourous and playful and joyful. I get to share others’ amazingness. I learn and I definitely have far better realtionships because of it.

    Having a strong Identity such as yours is a tremendous bonus in the world and I applaud you, but we can go deeper here.

    I work as a professional counsellor of people with severe mental heath problems – women and men of all ages and backgrounds – and I also speak to you now from that place.

    I borrow and translate Rori’s tools with my clients, with great success. They dovetail into my person-centred approach and my interest and studies of neuroscience and current approaches in wellbeing.

    I really notice your feeling of being attacked – and I feel so sad and also frustrated you feel this way – you quote several instances of someone saying they feel pissed off in relation to your comments.

    Someone saying they feel pissed off at you is not attacking you. Your Assessment of that statement is that someone is attacking you, and that makes it painful to hear.

    ‘I feel attacked, I feel angry’ Is that you? In that moment?

    So fewer words, so clear, so human. I could relate to that instead of having to work so hard to get to the You underneath all your words.

    Identity/Ego wants to assess and judge and identify with the painbody. But you are so much more than that! Behind your Identity as a strong, vocal, ‘masculine’ woman is a soul and a Witnessing Self.

    Try it on for size – you will be magnificent! xxxx

  235.  #235alias girl on June 24, 2009 at 5:00 pm

    wow. heartbeat. wow. i feel overjoyed to read that. i feel incapable of being so articulate and generous. i feel admiring and grateful.

  236.  #236heartbeat on June 24, 2009 at 5:18 pm

    Thank you Alias Girl – and you are my wonderful role-model of openness and expression on here xxxx

  237.  #237alias girl on June 24, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    aw. i feel loved and appreciated. i feel undeserving. i feel guilty because people at my job hate me for all my passive aggressiveness in the past. IN THE PAST! not lately!!!!!!

    i feel scared to acknowledge praise because i feel an obligation comes with it. I am not saying it does. just how i feel.

    I feel pressure to comform into societal politeness right now. i feel like i am ruining everything and why so complicated? Why can’t i just accept a nice compliment with a simple thank you?

    I feel difficult and complicated and turning people off.

    🙁 I feel sad and upset. i feel worried heartbeat will think her comment caused me to feel sad and upset. i feel like an unsafe person to be kind to or compliment.

    i feel tears and crying and release and compassion and understanding for myself. i feel a quivering lip.

    i feel embarrased. heeh. i feel simultaneously amused and angry. i feel a deep breath. i feel back to okay again.

    i feel self conscious and embarrassed. and amused. i do Not feel disgusted. 🙂

  238.  #238Nikita on June 24, 2009 at 7:57 pm

    Heartbeat, alias girl,

    That post felt so on to me. I feel ditto to what alias girl wrote in response. I feel a little bad about not covering up my feelings. Then I felt angry that I was hiding myself to protect someone/anyone. I was quoted and my mind says; be politically correct-APoligize. My heart feels; no! That is what I was feeling.
    I feel however controversial that was the distinct feeling. I don’t have the experience to put it as beautifully and compassionately as heartbeat but I feel so much gratitude that she was present.

    I read, I hear you, and underneath I feel scared now to even engage you. I think about contacting you privately, but I feel scared. I feel like I may walk into a war zone. I feel like……..I hear the prodigy song in my head ” I walk through minefields”.
    It does not feel good to me. I felt some serious attacks from you about the type of woman my posting was. I felt your fear. I felt the word “detest” when you wrote it in response to me. I feel a little defensive now. I felt it. I took it in stride. I looked deeper at
    the fear. I felt….. That’s hers, that belongs to her, those are her thoughts-my feelings are just that. My feelings and I love my feelings. I feel a pandoras box vibe. I feel scared to open that box. But I also feel welcoming to you here. Even though I didn’t feel welcomed by you. But I own that feeling, it is only a feeling because I cannot read your mind no matter how much you write it down. I hope in the future we feel better and not jabbed up by our opinions,

  239.  #239Flipper on June 26, 2009 at 7:22 am

    Several people, including myself, have mentioned ‘non-violent communication’ on the blog and I’d like to elaborate on what that is, and how feeling messages can contribute to reaching agreements and getting needs met. Somewhere recently I read Alias Girl feeling a bit frustrated despite some success with her feeling messages at work, wondering if there was something more adapted to the business world, and this might be something to consider. After all, we are generally not seeking the sort of intimate relationship with our colleagues as we are with a lover, and even with our nearest and dearest, there are the nitty gritty details of living and working to be worked out beyond our feeling aspect.

    So to show how it works, I’m sharing a recent ‘non-violent communitcation’ from my therapist, who is also a friend, about something that came up between us – personal, but could have repercussions on our pro relationship. She emailed:

    “I’m writing this e-mail to you in the form of the 4 steps of a non-violent communication out of my commitment to keep the space clear between us.

    1. “The facts” as I see them:
    I asked you take my picture in my hat so I could e-mail it to my mother. My understanding from you at the time was that that wasn’t a problem for you. When I next saw you you said you’d have to get batteries and I should call Jane Marion about getting pictures.

    2. The feeling:
    I feel frustrated.

    3. What I need:
    I need to connect with my mother in this way. More to the point regarding you and me, I need to keep the space of healing we have created together a sacred space. For me, that need includes that our interaction outside that space be one of clarity and completion, i.e., nothing that’s lingering, no unfinished business.

    4. The request:
    I ask that you send me the pictures. If that feels too overwhelming for you this week, I ask that we find a date together when it would work for you to send them.

    Whew! This is not easy. Triggers fear that you’ll be annoyed, think I’m too demanding, sorry you ever took these damn pictures, etc., etc., etc.

    And I still believe these non-violent communications are one of the ways of interacting together that can save the planet from war and all kinds of stuff that aren’t good for people and other living things.”

    My response was getting my act together so she could have the pix I’d promised and I felt glad for the illustration of N.V. (good non-violent NV NOT nasty-voice NV, tee hee) communication.

    It’s a technique to learn, like our other baby steps, and it fits in so well with the whole approach we’re developing here. It’s based on creating a dialogue with these 4 steps:
    state the facts ; express the feeling those facts induced ; express the need revealed; make a request about getting the need met. (Can be googled, Marshal Rosenberg invented it.)

    Tina – ‘karate chop’ refers to the little taps between the sides of the hands that start off a round of EFT.

    Heartbeat – I felt so good about your intervention, thank you for sharing your professional insights as well as your heartfelt feelings which always touch me so profoundly.

    ‘Feeling attacked’ certainly struck a chord with me, too. I feel that until we learn otherwise and retrain ourselves, most people do confuse the expression of someone else’s negative feeling with ‘Being attacked’ by them, or of Being accused of causing their problem with our own Feeling about the matter. And though this feeling brings up my defensiveness, too, it’s of a different kind than in a person who feels like fighting back. I often feel so stunned by their interpretation of my words, that I can’t react (so they feel I’m ignoring them or else accepting responsibility by not denying it), or I won’t even realize they’re thinking I attacked them because it’s so far from my intention (I’d been talking about myself or someone else, and just wanted their ear, it wasn’t about them at all). Or I might start explaining and assuaging, feel afraid they will reject me but completely push away this fear, and never, ever allow myself to get angry with Them for counterattacking me mistakenly or abusively.

    I have a big trip coming up, lots of heavy emotional stuff around that and am feeling in turmoil and quite overwhelmed. As I often do, I ‘out-source’ this to doing erratic tasks, which might be legitimate in themselves, but are irrevelant to getting myself ready to go, and just put off what I basically don’t want to but must do. I prolly won’t have much internet access – I can’t imagine how I could possibly follow along – it’s already almost impossible on a daily basis.

  240.  #240heartbeat on June 26, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    Hey Flipper, great to hear from you <3 thank you for your insights and example. I also tend to put off doing ‘what has to be done’, like I’m reacting to some internal nagging voice by rebelling, though I tend to feel anxious rather than rebellious. I’m training myself to sit down and ask myself ‘how can I make this better/fun/relaxing for me?’ and then I (usually) find a creative way of getting the task done.

    I’ve missed your voice, hope you won’t be away too long!

    I’m concentrating on my garden and apartment for a while – I’m enjoying the blossoms and the feeling of ‘home’.

  241.  #241Tatum on July 2, 2009 at 8:34 am

    I feel grateful for having found this blog and tools Rori offers. I feel brave for writing right now as I have always been so intensely private and needing to look ‘outside’ for guidance made me feel ashamed. I no longer feel ashamed. It’s a blessing.

    I feel exhausted as it has been one week since I told my boyfriend of 6 months that I wanted to date others. He had given me the laundry list of how awesome I am and just does not understand why he can’t commit to me. (I am his first relationship after his divorce. He lived with his ex until 3 months ago. I had stated what I was looking for at the beginning and believed him when he said he wanted the same thing – a long term relationship and ultimately marriage.) I feel angry that I believed him at the time and was swept up in feeling good about being pursued. I feel devastated and grateful for having met him at the same time! I feel empowered and sad that he suggested we be friends and I told him I was not looking for another friend, that I wanted to date him. I feel ashamed that I did not drop his ass when I found a shadow profile of him on a dating website a month ago. I feel pissed that I was so understanding of where he was in his life. I feel proud that I always was firm to my desire to be married in the future. I feel respect for him for telling me where he stood. I feel betrayed for him looking for other women online before he honoured our relationship by cutting it off. I feel sad that our timing was wrong. I feel blessed that Rori’s words (and this blog) have allowed me to learn that I was selling myself short in this relationship and overinvesting.

    I feel sad because I do love him. I feel trusting of myself that I will know what to do if he does call. I feel certain that he knows not to bother unless he is ready to step up.

    I don’t feel ready to date but will.

    I love this expressing of the ‘I feel’. I’m an INTJ and although I felt this would be difficult, it really isn’t.

  242.  #242Casandra Ross on July 2, 2009 at 9:27 am

    Dear Rori,
    I am new to your blog and I want to share the parts of your post that are helping me. Men get suck in my mind. I thought that I was just an insane person until I read your blog and found out that this is more common than I knew. The following senstences helped me to feel less like a freak.
    “It’s like putting a fence around yourself that’s marked with the man-you’re- zeroed-in-on’s name. It’s like he’s peed on you, and marked you as his territory, and you’re showing his urine stain to the world. (I recently did this and no other man mattered even though I knew the man I was attacted to wasn’t really right for me)
    “ven just THINKING about a man is letting him “mark” you – and I don’t want you to do that!-” (the part about how just THINKING ABOUT a man can have such a hold on a women Yes. True for me.)
    “If you’re hurt over a man, you’re not over him. I don’t care how long ago it was. And talking to him again will only re-open the wound.”
    (I experience this over and over and yet I didn’t want to loose the friendships.It helps to be reminded that if it hurts, then its NOT A FRIENDSHIP YET. I ‘ve been trying to be friends even when it still hurts. Its too hard to do.)
    “Let it heal. Forget him, or let him be your “muse,” or carry him with you on your horse into the rest of your life – but don’t let him have any control over you…

    How you “use” him and the memory of him to HELP you and get you what you want is YOUR choice, and you should feel totally okay and happy and good about how you do that.” ( I totally get men stuck in my mind this way. I also came to the conclusion that he was acting as my muse. I love that. In the beginning of the connection he got stuck in my mind and I saw him as a muse. He’d say something and I’d go running to watch a bunch of movies so that I could respond in a very creative way. He was my muse. I questioned if he was really capable of the type of relatinship that I’m capable of so I wondered if I should just keep him as a muse or get more involved. I got more involved and now he’s not talking to me and I’m trying to be friends but he’s not responding. Its true I’m not ready for friendship because I’m still emotionally triggered and its true he was my muse. I’m not sure he can be just my muse again but he is in my mind and what else do I do with him there? As I said, its helpful to see that others are having similar experiences. All best, Casandra

  243.  #243Casandra Ross on July 2, 2009 at 9:31 am

    Just now adding the notify me check.

  244.  #244Rori Raye on July 2, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    Wow, Tatum – you ROCK! This is going to be an amazing rest of the year for you…just keep doing what you’re doing – Circular Dating will give you a new place to practice all these new Tools and ways of being. Love, Rori

  245.  #245Rori Raye on July 2, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    Cassandra, Welcome, and thank you for your VERY insightful details of your situation. a man can’t be really your muse unless you are moving forward. And that means Circular Dating. As you do this, and use every man out in the world to HELP you – he will lose his power over you and simply be another man HELPING you. You’ll see. Just try this – really use your masculine energy to get yourself out there – the program is Targeting Mr. Right – and if you don’t have it…look for help here…Love, Rori

  246.  #246Jennifer on July 9, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    I was having a “friends with benefits” situation with my now ex-boyfriend. He told me about 3 weeks ago that he was interested in someone else. At the same time, he was still contacting me and shamefully I responded a couple of times. Now I find out that he has been talking to people about this new relationship and has said that he has found the “one”. In the same breath has said that I hurt him by seeing someone else a couple of weeks ago. I really don’t understand how he can basically slander me to others and actually every proclaim that he loved me. He was furious that I had the nerve to go out on a date with someone else only after breaking up with him the week before. Our relationship was over months ago, but he and I were still sleeping together. He wanted to get together with me this week, but I turned him down. I’ve decided that cutting him off is the only way to get his negative energy and drama out of my life. I hate that things have become so destructive between us.

    I understand the need to ask him what I did wrong and what I could’ve done to fix it. He, of course ,wants to be friends and I really don’t see the point. The statment that Rori makes about moving away from his negative is so true. As the days go by with no communication, I feel like I’m coming to accept the fact that all parts of our relationship are over. I can’t be friends with him now and I’m not sure I ever want to be. I’m hoping that this is a healthy way to feel?

  247.  #247heartbeat on July 10, 2009 at 12:09 am

    Jennifer, if it was me I’d feel angry and confused. I might want to contact him and say right out ‘I feel angry and confused and I feel like getting as far away as possible’ but I wouldn’t want to advise you on what to do, I just know I feel better getting my feelings out in the open in a non-attacking but energetic way.

    Your question – is it healthy to feel as you do – I feel like hugging you, you feel as you feel, have compassion for yourself anf your feelings and they will flow through you.

    Asking him what you’ve done wrong – no way! You feel as you feel.

  248.  #248heartbeat on July 10, 2009 at 12:10 am

    And I’d sling him on the back of my horse and move on too.

  249.  #249Cassandra on July 13, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    I am soooooooo far behind it will take me days to catch up. I have missed being here and reading everyone’s post and have missed sharing the parts of my journey that I have shared here. This place for me is a haven…..pretty much the ONLY place in my ife where I feel safe, accepted, loved and free to be totally and authentically ME. There has been a hole in my life with having to be away as I have been and I feel happy to be back. I feel excited to go back and read this post in it’s entire -ity (sorry……horrible grammar! LOL)! There is much here for me to learn that is for sure.

    I do want to address one thing that I did get to read so far…..Jason…you wrote this…..
    “A fear of abandonment is what creates this addictive sense of attachment.
    The worst possible outcome would be to be ignored.
    The greatest punishment would be abandonment.
    As long as he’s in my life — no matter the ridicule, humiliation, or abuse — at least I know I’m not being ignored. ”

    I cannot tell you how right on the money these statements are for me…..Rori…how do I get out from under that deep rooted fear of abandonment. You know my situation and that I am in a total place of complete and utter abandonment and emotional abuse…sometimes even verbal/& or physical abuse covered up as ‘playing around’ or joking….although we all know what that is about….it is definitely NOT a joke. I feel so weak in that I am still here in this place with Charles and in HIS home. My head is totally in the know that this relationship, if you can even call it that, is soooooooo NOT good for me but my heart can’t seem to ‘get it’. I feel so desperate for love and affection and to hear him say something….anything nice to me but it never comes. I have been really working hard on ME and doing the things that make ME happy and that part is great…i am totally doing my own thing now and even beginning to get back into teaching Salsa dance classes come Sept. 1st….that feels good. I ahve also been spending as much time as I can on getting my business up and running and that also feels good but where Charles is concerned I now never see him…even when he IS home he spends all of his free time with ‘the guys’ and i am left totally alone on the weekends even though he is gone most of the week. It hurts. That hurts me so badly that even though I am doing my thing he makes NO EFFORT whatsoever to see me or spend any time with me whatsoever. I feel invisible. I feel as though I don’t matter to him and the fact is is that I don’t and OMG does that ever hurt me right down to the bone. I can sense myself falling into another cycle of depression knowing that I am still stuck here with still no job on the horizon although my business is starting to generate a little money here and there adn I do know it is just a matter of time before I am doing quite well. So many people tell me that as soon as that happens HE will WANT me to stay and for us to stay together but I don’t think that is the leats bit true. I know he wants me out of here and he makes it clear to me that I am unloved, unwanted, Un beautiful, Un…anything good. Even when i was offered a teaching position at my gym, teaching Salsa dance and possibly tango as well…his response was ‘YOU think you are good enough to teach?” even though he knew I used to teach most every night before I moved here. How do I get my heart to be where my head is….to know that I just need to get the hell out of here? I do still love him in some ways but I feel smaller and smaller here each and every day….I feel that I don’t matter and that if something were to happen to me he would not bat an eyelash. Well he told me that the other day….if I were to get in a car accident I should call AAA..that that is what they are there for. I can’t tellyou how deeply that hurt me. I feel small and so insignificant that I am still in this position and I feel so humiliated and embarassed by all of this and that I don’t have the strength to leave….although right now ….where in the world would I even go?

  250.  #250Mariah on September 10, 2009 at 9:46 am

    Dear Rori,

    I have a question on this regard. I met a very nice man about 6 weeks ago, and we have been seing each other every week since we met. He was putting all the effort to ensure I had a day available for him and I liked that. He even made a point to tell me that I was not communicating ( text, emails, calls) much with him so he wanted to make sure I was interested because HE WAS! I told him I was interested to getting to know him and that I was not much into the texting, emailing ‘thing’. He understood and we both started communicating more and more to the point that we were texting each other the entire day! Just recently we have became intimate ( I felt it was safe at this point), he showed continues interest and assure me he was not dating anyone else. Here is my issue- I am not sure if it is a coincidence with a busy week (back to school- he is a professor) and he was spending quite some time to prepare for his classes or if he just lost interest. He has not communicate with me much and the tone of the conversations have changed to more serious and plain then just fun how it was.

    I did ask him if there was anything on his mind that he would like to share and his response was – ‘Just preocupied and wanting to settle in this week and get into his routine.’
    Any advice in what should I do at this point? I am afraid he is acting as the typical guy behavior or if he is being really truthful to feeling overwhelmed.

    Your input would be much appreciated!


  251.  #251Rori Raye on September 10, 2009 at 11:22 am

    Mariah – Welcome — and BACK UP. Please, please Circular Date. Do NOT put all your eggs in this man’s one basket. Do not call him, etc. Let him come and go…Love, Rori

  252.  #252Mariah on September 10, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    Thank you Rori for the fast response! I will just do that, and keep it very light!


  253.  #253Mariah on September 23, 2009 at 10:32 am

    Dear Rori,

    I have taken your advice and started circular dating, it feels strange because I like this man and would like to concentrate in getting to know him better. He still calls (every night), texts me (daily) and is very thoughtful. We spent last weekend together, it was peaceful and enjoyable. But then, I am left with this feeling that ‘he’ changed and somehow his interest has shifted. I did try ‘feeling message’ – maybe I did it wrong! I told him yesterday that eventhough we have been spending time together I feel a shift of interest on his part and asked if he wanted to share anything with me. He just told me that he was overwelmed with his work, teaching (on the side), property for sale, looking for a new property, a new car and he knew that he was not given the priority to our relationship and that perhaps he was just not in a point of his life to have one anyways since I was asking for an answer.

    So… what do you respond to that?? I was surprised and question him why he has not innitiated the conversation if that is how he felt. Also I told him that, I liked him and if he wanted me to get closer to him I would like to sense that he is still interested, ( he made a point in earlier stages that he didn’t know if I was interested because I didn’t communicate with him).

    Rori, I have been holding back on this and I don’t want to …. why can we just be and feel. My ‘fear’ is that he is just using all ‘that’ as an excuse! I have been hurt before where ‘man’ just keep telling me- I am too busy, or overwelmed or I am not ready- and I don’t want to waste my time. Am I letting my fear ruin everything here? Today he text me as usual to say good morning and said – talk to you tonight.

    your input please… thank you again!


  254.  #254Rori Raye on September 24, 2009 at 10:12 am

    Mariah – Dating is dating. Dating is no more than dating until a man takes it to a higher level on his own, unasked. Until then, you Circular Date. Let a man know what you want for yourself in general (not in particular with him) and if he’s not doing the job, drop him and add in a new man to your Circular rotation. Love, Rori

  255.  #255Mariah on September 24, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    Got it! I am in contact with other man and will be going out on dates soon. I will not make him exclusive unless he takes to a different level.

    thank you for inspiring me!


  256.  #256Mariah on September 26, 2009 at 9:04 am


    I just wanted to understand something about ‘Circular Dating’. I find it little awkard for me, eventhough I know is the best way to keep things light and feel good about myself, I also don’t know how to do it. Specialy when you have became little closer to someone and intimacy has taken place. How do you date others? when you are sharing intimacy with someone else? That is where I find it difficult to share my time with someone when I am trying to get to know someone else.

    I know I problebly have the concept all wrong.. so just would like to clarify that in my own mind.

    btw- I have been communicating with other man, it feels ok and I also have steped back from the man I am dating. He is coming forward more now and making attemps through out the day to communicate with me.

    thank you again,


  257.  #257Rori Raye on September 26, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    Mariah – wanted to answer this because I think it’s universal. Just because you’re sleeping with a man – even 2 or 3 different men! — doesn’t mean you can’t date other men. Period. The only exclusivity should be around sex…and you can write that agreement any way you want it (many women feel just fine with Polyamory – unless the MAN does it…) If you can’t have sex with one man and still have coffee dates and walks with another…then you shouldn’t be having sex with him. Only do what you can handle and still stay cool and diva-like. Love, Rori

  258.  #258Mariah on September 26, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    Thank you Rori!

    I do have some thinking to do. Maybe I will just date him and no intimacy unless he steps up to the plate and makes me feel different, or just dump him period.

    Lets see how develops.


  259.  #259Mariah on September 28, 2009 at 9:18 pm


    I am very upset right now… disapointed and angry! I just got a call from the man I was dating and in a very polite way he told me that he feels that he does not have the time for a relationship right now. Remember I mention he was giving me all kinds of excuses…..well, finally it surfaced the truth. He said that the relationship is not where it should be- he does not feel it is.

    So, here is where it made me feel angry- a phone call? he wouldn’t ever speak to me in person. And, he waited for us to get intimate to figure it out? I am not feeling good about myself at all…..I feel I should’ve known better, in fact I feel so stupid to have open up myself that way to him and be vulnerable to him.
    He asked to remain friends, and I responded by saying that ‘I am not looking for another friend’, I have plenty and wished him all the best and I hang up the phone.

    Rori, I don’t want this situation to close me up again. I don’t want to feel that I did something wrong and it led to this, but I can’t help to feel this way. I can’t help to feel rejected again, when HE was the one pursuing me heavily in the begining. How can I turn this into a positive experience?


  260.  #260Flipper on September 29, 2009 at 4:59 am

    Mariah, I feel so bad for you and everything you say resonates with me, about feeling stupid and wanting to do better next time etc etc etc. But I admire how you were able to say “no friends” and hang up quickly. Now the Nasty Voices sound like they’re out with a vengeance to dwell on what you might have done “wrong”, but you can honestly tell them you are doing some things right. Thank them for trying, and if they really want to help, maybe they can tweak their natural “negativity” into reinforcing your “no’s” and “don’t wants” when you need them. ((This is in no way a criticism of anything you said or didn’t say.)

    I’ve been mulling over a similar situation recently – what to do when things get stuck on the phone, which feels so distant and inappropriate for expressing my feelings as deeply as I’d like. Then I keep waiting for the moment when we’re physically present, and instead, from call to call that just just slithers further and further away until, bam, the polite/friendly/embarassed/dutiful/whatever “I’m not ready/don’t want to hurt you/preoccupied with work/whatever”. In trying to find my feelings, I’ve always felt frustrated coming up with mainly blaming-words, which I don’t want to use, and even then they don’t feel exactly right. I’ve finally come up with some things that feel true for me and may get heard, which I’m sharing here in case they can help you or any other Siren.

    When I get inconsequential phone calls that distract me with surface attention but are skirting the real issues (for me – such as cancelled plans and general backing away on his part), I no longer want to go into polite chit-chat. I want to say ‘I’m feeling strong stuff about what’s happening, or not happening, with us right now. I don’t feel comfortable sharing my deep feelings over the phone with people.’

    And when I get whammied by a ‘break off’ speech, I intend to say something like ‘I’m feeling so submerged by my emotions I can’t even tell you what they are yet. This phone feels so cold and lifeless in my hand, and I don’t want to talk about my feelings this way”. Then hang up.

    And I can honestly say, I no longer want to wish any of my exes or futures well. It’s been a long time coming, but my ‘nice girl’ who always said things like that was not being honest. I don’t want to wish them Anything, good or bad: I don’t want them keeping only happy memories of me that make them feel good when they want to; or bad ones they use as an excuse for messing up their lives. (This is in no way a criticism of anything you said or didn’t say.)

    Hugs, Mariah, while you’re getting through this to your better you, the one who’ll feel good about how she handles it when he shows up again and with all the guys coming next till Mr Right pops up among them.

  261.  #261Mariah on September 29, 2009 at 6:55 am

    Thank you Fliper!

    I didn’t take offense with your remarks- valid ones! It is a journey and we all have to embrace the mistakes we make. Obviously something happen to make him feel this way in order to end it in such a early stages and over ‘the phone’, but I am not going to engage with my thoughts and try to figure it out what happened. I can only think about my own actions, how I reacted and what did I do or not do in order to find my own self balance. I am just upset that he did not have the courtesy to speak to me in person, but I will feel the emotion right now, and allow myself to be upset, disappointed and even angry.
    He said ‘ he didn’t not wanted to end a relationship with someone that he likes so much’ but that he didn’t feel that it was where it was suppose to be- thus he wanted to remain ‘friends’.

    I will just take that as – He was not that into me and period, and that is ok!
    thanks again, and lets stay strong and beautiful!

    Curious to hear Rori’s word of wisdom!!


  262.  #262Mariah on October 12, 2009 at 7:58 am

    Dear Rori,

    I have a question that is making me very confused…..

    What do you do when you feel that the man you are dating for almost three months, does not make me feel connected emotionally to him? Am I keeping expectations too high? When we are together, we do have a good connection and attraction but I feel there is none when we are apart- not sure how to take this and what to do about it!!



  263.  #263Rori Raye on October 13, 2009 at 8:24 pm

    Mariah…here’s the thing. The emotional connection is YOUR JOB in the relationship. His job is to sort of be the thinking part of the equation…to hold space for you to be the light in the relationship. Three months is just at that point where relationships become real…and I hope you are not dating him exclusively. If you were my client, I would encourage you to TALK with him… Find out what excites him, share what excites you…express yourself passionately about what turns you on…Perhaps you’re saying he will never be a good match for you, or perhaps you’re saying he doesn’t keep you off-balance or pining after him…and that would be a good thing to explore! Love, Rori

  264.  #264Mariah on October 14, 2009 at 11:18 am

    Dear Rori,

    Thank you for the response, I read your article today about ‘Power Speech’ and I was almost identifying myself with the email you were referring to. Reason being, he also changed after sex but did not take two weeks to call me. He maintained pretty much the same contact but it was just different- distant! I agree with you that three months the relationship becomes real but here is my dilemma- How can I feel emotionally connected or at least try to make him feel that way when I feel this distance between us? It is almost like he is not interested or that he is too busy to put an effort yet he still calls and wants to see me- I DON’T GET IT!!!! So what I feel is to pull away from him even more, I guess I don’t feel inspired to do my ‘job’- bring connection. Yes, I wonder if he is a good match for me…. and I wonder if I should use Power Speech – I feel so miserable right now!