How To Create Emotional Intimacy With Sex

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How do you go first to deepen intimacy when you’re working with the experience of sex? (This is Part 3 of the 3-Part Sex and Intimacy Series – Here’s Part 1->)

Without initiating? Without doing ANYTHING?

You open up, baby step by baby step – and see what he does.

Even if he does NOTHING – you watch.

You smile. You melt. You are warm. You unzip your heart. You open.

If he can hold the space, if he can open up and then give to you, facilitate your opening up even more – then you’ve got a winner here.

And…then ON to more baby-steps!

If he continually moves backward – you are forced to step backward.

You are forced to step back and see what he does.

And here’s the trick – if you can step back but NOT close down…just stay open and see what happens…you will get more out of each baby-step.

You will slowly discover the abilities of the man you’re with – and if he just can’t do it – you will grow bored. Yes, you will. Sex will stop it’s wonderfulness.

If he slowly increases his ability to hold a space for intimacy, to lean forward towards you when you’re open instead of stepping back…then you’ll feel more excited and more LOVE for him. If a man is intensely always leaning toward you – it will scare you – and you’ll have to share that with him so he can facilitate you better.

All this is to open up the possibility for you that sex isn’t about what you think it’s about.

Sex is not an end, and it’s not a means to a relationship goal with a man. It’s an experience of the moment that can be meaningful and powerful and profound and passionate or juicy or fun – depending on how YOU feel about it in that moment.

And if you see it as a possibility for ALL of this…then you can baby-step your way into your ABILITY to do intimacy THROUGH sex.

So – again – the goal is not the result, but the experience.

No matter what a man says – it’s the same for him.

Let me know how this bends your mind!

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1dorothea on August 23, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    Thank you for posting this, Rori. Can you please explain more about what you mean when you say step back? Do you mean in general, or when in the middle of a sexual experience? What would that look like?

  2.  #2Mercedes on August 24, 2010 at 6:10 am

    Great post! Thank you!

    Much Love,

  3.  #3anna on August 24, 2010 at 7:30 am

    haya rori,

    i just stumbled on your site, subcribed to newsletter and got 5 tools link however pdf file says to be damaged and non retrieavable. so i went on looking on yr site and topic on sex and intimacy cought my eye.

    here it is. i learned i was not in place and time for me to seek or be in serious relationship and all that comes from it. i too many times mixed loving with sex. no way i could have sex unless i was in love or loving the man.

    hence me recently realising that am not up for relationship i went to look for sex, escape, have fun, no committement, but also looked for man that i can connect with on some levels. soon enough i realised i am attracting married man rather then single and as much as i was rejecting the idea i met few and realised how nice gents they r, nearly regretting they were not single…lol…but knowing myself i agreed its better that i do not go to fantasy land and dream up ‘happily ever after to then get hurt’ as i know i am not in place in life and head for man to want relationship and committement with me.

    as time went by, i finaly now realised that i know so little of man and that i know so little of attraction, intimacy, and sorts and that i do not know how to send messages or recieve them.

    now here is problem, one gent i met clearly spoke of how he did not wish to leave marriage when he was with one lady for years that turned sour when se demanded he divorces, he said he comes and goes as he pelases, he said he is happy to be friends and share specific knoweldge he has and i sought for years, and if anything else happens is a bonus. he ended kissing me the first time we met and i was not meeting him as more than friendship on mind, next time we were frolicing in the car in the nature, to then hear hed like to stroke my skin but not in car if he can come to mine…to then during car fumble he said wed definately have sex if indoors, where then i felt its same what id like too and decide after all to let it all happen to its full blow…only to then get comment from him…’gosh, i feel guilty’ ..i asked why..and got answer in lines ..’ i do not want it to mess up the friendship’…..where by friendship it was him telling me when he is free, wed meet over drink, talk about technioques of mediation, personal growth and development on way to inner calmness and happienss he seems have mastered for years and i am on m way, to then end up frolicing, tenderly and sensual kissing, stronking and ..hmmm..tending to one others needs never ever going for ‘full relief’.

    i am confused, why would man think we are jsut friends where we were having fun already in the car, and would worry what sex woud to to friendship. i know little of him, i sensed he is nice kind calm pieceful man, we met on sex site, so we know what that means, i told him i am not looking for commited locing relationship, i got sense he is not going down that route as being married, so what has happened for him is mystery in my books. i only managed to say that shame and guilt are not natural emotions we r born with and are emposed by society and people, where we then ebat up ouselves with it. that we met on sex site, we had common interest in spiritual maturity and that we both wanted it and felt like it so it does not mean it has to happen every time, that it will, nor that our friendship/relationship based on common interest needs to suffer.

    can somene or u rori help me to understand where would i think of sex and intimacy in this situation? i wish to get to know him, get him to open up in friendship human kind caring way as i know i can be there for him, understand him, and if in anyway help him grow, feel or so as he does for me when he helps me then briliant.i did not set out to think of him as relationship mateiral. i made my mind up that i am not working up my emotions as he is married but then maybe he did not know how meeting me and being with me and getting to know me will impact him and if along the way he will change what he wants and how he wants it.

    so let me refrase question, if man meets woman on sex site, is married, clearly states he will not leave wife, stars of with kiss, friendship, frolics that lead us to sex and then says he feels guilty as it might affect friendship….and i teach him that we spoke of we neevr know if and when we r to meet again and we did what we wanted both and how we wanted and enjoyed the moment, has he suddenly worried that he wanted to get emotinal connection first for a while and then come to sex and now as of sex so early in meeting will spoil it or is he thinking he will use this comment to bail out of friendship???

    hope i made my puzzle clear enough for you or somene to clear the puzzling mind now. i met just one more gent on sex site and it feels as i can never tell what exactly these married gents are actualy thinking or hoping for or are worried where i clearly say…i am not demanding, nor will fall for you, nor will be drama queen or stir things up, its all fun and good times and sharing and enjoying. for me tis good that i am me and am nit under presure to need to impress or be pefect, i am not worried if any of them never contacts me, wuuld be sad but would not cut my veins if u know what i mean.

  4.  #4tinque on August 24, 2010 at 8:18 am

    “You smile. You melt. You are warm. You unzip your heart. You open.”

    Yes, yes, yes…..

  5.  #5Brenda on August 24, 2010 at 9:52 am

    Husband Store

    A store that sells new husbands has opened in New York City , where a woman may go to choose a husband. Among the instructions at the entrance is a description of how the store operates:

    You may visit this store ONLY ONCE! There are six floors and the value of the products increase as the shopper ascends the flights. The shopper may choose any item from a particular floor, or may choose to go up to the next floor, but you cannot go back down except to exit the building!

    So, a woman goes to the Husband Store to find a husband. On the first floor the sign on the door reads:

    Floor 1 – These men Have Jobs

    She is intrigued, but continues to the second floor, where the sign reads:

    Floor 2 – These men Have Jobs and Love Kids.

    ‘That’s nice,’ she thinks, ‘but I want more.’

    So she continues upward. The third floor sign reads:

    Floor 3 – These men Have Jobs, Love Kids, and are Extremely Good Looking.

    ‘Wow,’ she thinks, but feels compelled to keep going.

    She goes to the fourth floor and the sign reads:

    Floor 4 – These men Have Jobs, Love Kids, are Drop-dead Good Looking and Help With Housework.
    ‘Oh, mercy me!’ she exclaims, ‘I can hardly stand it!’

    Still, she goes to the fifth floor and the sign reads:

    Floor 5 – These men Have Jobs, Love Kids, are Drop-dead Gorgeous, Help with Housework, and Have a Strong Romantic Streak.

    She is so tempted to stay, but she goes to the sixth floor, where the sign reads:

    Floor 6 – You are visitor 31,456,012 to this floor. There are no men on this floor. This floor exists solely as proof that women are impossible to please. Thank you for shopping at the Husband Store.
    (scroll and keep reading!)


    To avoid gender bias charges, the store’s owner opened a New Wives store just across the street.

    The first floor has wives that love sex.

    T he second floor has wives that love sex and have money and like beer.

    The third, fourth, fifth and sixth floors have never been visited.

  6.  #6janjune on August 24, 2010 at 11:11 am

    you’ve taken it to a new level with this post rori, i felt like you were right here in the room talking to me, showing me how to do this dance.

    “the goal is not the result, but the experience”

    i felt interested in the Baby Steps to Intimacy Dance, also because i felt recognition that, for me, they were (energetic) steps to
    1. NOT getting my heart broken (by responding to this moment with this man and not making it any other “thing”)
    2. doing my part to make the connection (by holding space, NOT by doing anything, just being present, there, with him, in that moment and not making it any other “thing”)
    3. holding the space for a “safe zone” for him if he hasn’t created one for himself yet.

    well, this is probably just how my mind is processing the information based on my individual situation but i feel very very present with this information.

    thank you rori!!!!!

  7.  #7Daria on August 24, 2010 at 11:20 am

    I’ve been feeling unattractive. I still have my initial – i’m very attractive… “aloof allure” feeling…

    but when i think about opening up more, im jduging myself as unattractive

    “all old looking” … “undisciplined”… “unhappy”… “doesn’t know how to make money”

    that feels like my brow wrinkling


    i love my feelings

    i want to feel worthy worth it amazing

    i feel sad
    that i feel this way

    i love my sadness

  8.  #8Daria on August 24, 2010 at 11:31 am

    regarding Brenda’s comment –

    i think the Husband’s builiding shows how women cannot be satisfied with getting a man they paid for and bought themselves.

    Women are always gonna keep a heartdoor open for that one guy that CLAIMS THEM with masculine energy, regardless of how good other men look on paper.

    As for the second Wives building… it’s great to have purchased a wife, but i bet the Mistress Hotel has all 10 floors visited regularly,

    unless the Beer guzzling women also have their heart open and know how to respect a man.

  9.  #9Daria on August 24, 2010 at 11:34 am

    I got a text last nite:

    “I just want to ask one question. Why is my husband texting you (feeling hoeish) and what were yall talking about? and be a woman about it”

    this is most likely my neighbors wife. Well i felt kinda scared and powerful too…

    and I didn’t answer… that’s my way about being a woman

    ask your husband girl

  10.  #10Daria on August 24, 2010 at 11:35 am

    i meant — that IS my neighbors’s wife —

    well, girl we text each other cuz we’re friends and we smoke together sometimes — tell HIM HE STILL OWES ME those 3 dollars!!!

    and he’s texting me feelin hoeish cuz he probably wanted to have sex with me – like he has wanted to for the past 10 years

    but it hasn’t happened

  11.  #11Ginni on August 24, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    I am feeling scared, my guy and I are at a cross roads with intimacy, and it has me feeling I’m on the edge of a cliff. We were passionately committed and perfectly matched with attraction, hopes and future. He has some trust issues with woman and I felt that consistency and love would deminish them eventually. Well I began overfunctioning as always, and i feel him slipping away. I back up physically and have continued to emotionally and he usually steps up. But we had a fight and I provoked it by feeling resentful and presenting an issue to feed his insercurity, and he crushed me emotionally, by stating that everything about our exculsitivey was a lie and our exculisvity is based on our commitment to each as he often says that a girlfriend is nothing to a man unless she is the woman he intends to marry, which we all know is acturate and why I felt so safe and happy with my stud 🙂 . This happened 6 days ago, I have tried so hard not to intiate any calling , but I texted him nasty things a few times. He texted me Saturday night and I didnt answer. Well Sunday I tried to reach out to him and he didnt answer? I texted again today and said When can we talk? Its been 6 days and I miss u > Dont you miss me or care? He replied right away and said he would get in touch with me later on today? Im feeling so scared? I could use some help, I want to do something, but I know I can’t but I need to be prepared? What if he doen’t call? I know what I want , but somehow I always throw digs in , instead of being vulnerable, I feel scared that all my overfunstioning has made him lose the attraction and if Im vulernable I will be crushed again. My things are at his house and i will need to retrieve them , or he will offer to return them, and It will hurt me so bad. He calls me everyday , wishes me goodnite every nite, we see each other at least 5 times a week , I feel like i’m dying , i am trying to be strong because if he has lost it for me there is nothing I can do but feel the pain and move on, but I really don’t want to put myself in the boat again. I would prepfer to avoid it completely? I feel so scared and after reveiwing this letter I realise that I am assuming he is going to dump me, I feel so scared to think or hope that he will reaasure me and take back the awful things he said , but again I have to just sit and wait it out? And now I’m freaking out what if he doesnt call? HELP PLEASE

  12.  #12Renee on August 24, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    I would be interested in hearing what this looks like…

  13.  #13Ginni on August 24, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    Thanks me too

  14.  #14Renee on August 24, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    Ginni — what were your issues with intimacy, if I may ask?

    I feel sad hearing that things have disintegrated between you two…it’s obvious that you have very strong feelings for this man and you’re really hurting here. I would give you a big hug right now if I could.

  15.  #15Ginni on August 24, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    Aw Thanks, It would feel reassuring to have a hug:) well he starting withdrawing and not intiating sex as much, and questioning my whereabouts, he won’t say he loves me anymore and stoped kissing me?
    It hurts and I know Im not handling it right, but I havent addressed these issues , I am getting resentful and aloof and i know he’s been freaking out about it, but he let it out the other day lol.
    And I don’t know if I will have the opportunity and if I do have the opportunity to express my feelings will i screw it up.

  16.  #16Renee on August 24, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    Maybe it would help to write down your feelings using feeling statements right now so you can get in the habit of expressing yourself that way. That might prepare you for when the time comes if you do get that opportunity. What do you think?

  17.  #17Ginni on August 24, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    I think that is a great idea thanks you very much ! at least its something to do instead of freaking out. LOL I feel crazy if he doesn’t call me that I am going to call him and I know I definitely should not do that!
    I will write , thank you I feel better already. Your very sweet

  18.  #18Isa on August 24, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    Hi I love this post,

    I am a bit confused though…does this mean that the female lies there and is receptive? What about being initiating sex?

    Thanks Rori

  19.  #19Renee on August 24, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    Isa — Yah, I’d like more clarification too of what it means to suddenly be “open” when you’re thinking of becoming intimate with your partner. How does that look, exactly.

    Ginni — Would it feel better for you to call him or for him to call you? If the latter, I think I would try to hold off on calling him…in my opinion, this is a critical juncture in your relationship…one where you can set the tone as you being the feminine, receptive one or the pursuing, masucline one. I know this is easier said than done, but if you persist in leaning forward, there’s never going to be enough room for both of you in the circle (one of Rori’s metaphors). If you want him to love you for the long haul, it’s important that you start now in being the feminine receptive one.

    Now that you’ve taken the time to write down your feelings, is there anything you can think of to do that would get your mind off this and make you feel better? A bath? Shopping? Eating ice cream? Just anything that will help you center yourself some and get out of “panic” mode. What do you think?

  20.  #20tinque on August 24, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    Isa – No not exactly. You would want to let him mostly lead, mostly take care of you, especially in the early stages of your relationship.
    And you can respond all you want, moving to his moves, making sounds if you feel inspired, reacting to his touches, making you feelings of feeling good obvious to him.
    Men take great pleasure in making us feel good.
    When you’ve been together awhile, it’s fine to initiate sometimes, regularly even, but I have found that if it becomes the norm, your man will start to not feel “right”, in a sense emasculated.

  21.  #21Renee on August 24, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    I’m relieved…cougar man has to go out of town again tomorrow so I don’t have to see him again yet. His comments last night about my seeing other guys have really turned me off…off to the point where I don’t know that I want to see him again.

    I felt smothered by his neediness last night…and today, to be honest. I txted him that I would be out of touch most of the day because I was staging a house, but he proceeded to txt me 2 hours later anyway…ugh. I feel pressured and smothered and I’m not liking it…it’s making me rethink whether I even want to be in a relationship because I don’t like having to answer to someone about my whereabouts day and night…it’s tiresome:-(.

    I’m sure it would feel different if it were someone I was ‘craving’ the way I have in the past…but it’s been so long since I’ve felt that way about anyone that I wonder if my ‘man craving’ function is broken, lol.

    Have a date tonight w/Blondie…let’s see if he’s interesting or not:-).

  22.  #22Isa on August 24, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    Thanks Renae and Tinque,

    I appreciate your input and support it helps alot. I am beginning to enjoy letting him lead me. I do find that for me that it can be hard to let a guy leads who move to fast… to the main event?

  23.  #23Renee on August 24, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    That’s a good question, Isa — how does one stay in feminine energy and purposely slow a man down when he’s rushing a little too much for your liking? For that matter, how would you tell a man what you want if you stay 100% feminine and receptive…I mean, I feel very feminine in bed and generally let the man take the primary lead, though I mention things like, “it would feel so good if you would xyz” or even “I want to feel xyz”…does that mean I’ve been slipping into my “boy energy” in bed? Curious…

  24.  #24Isa on August 24, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    ok my soul needs to riff…
    I feel sad and weepy not juicy goddessy…feeling like this confuses me from my usual state. I feel as if I fell off a high horse and am fumbling around in dark to regain ground…
    but how can I regain what and who I am already?
    Blessed, a goddesss, juicy, sexy, warm on the inside? My imperfections are endearing, my strong suits appealing…I am hope unleashed…
    I dare to dream of Him to visualize him proposing to me wanting and needing me…more than I need him….I am the wave, the ocean, and the ocean floor. I am the mirror of what is and what can be I am a prayer truth ignited gasp*** I am more than enough
    woman enough to hold love, fear, sadness, contentment and more…

  25.  #25tinque on August 24, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    Renee – “it would feel so good if you would xyz”

    Something like this; how about instead, “it would feel so good if we…or it would feel so good to…”
    Takes the “you” out if thus less chance of him feeling like he’s doing something wrong.

    Isa – If he’s going to fast, say “it would feel so good if we could move slowly” .
    If there’s something he does you like, “that felt so good when you…” as a suggestion for more, or he does something that feels good in the moment, “that feels so good, more please” or whatever words that feel more like you.

  26.  #26Renee on August 24, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    Tinque — Interesting observation. Now that I think about it, though, I actually rarely use “you” in those requests…more often the word “your”…a valid point though.

    Isa — that’s beautiful.

  27.  #27Isa on August 24, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    omgosh hugs Tinque and thanks Renae,

    This SHIFT is so powerful, yet is so new and delicious I can do it now with your guidance and support…when I read that it feels soft, sensual, yet empowered…

  28.  #28Lucy on August 24, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    “T he second floor has wives that love sex and have money and like beer.”

    So THAT’S what went wrong with WH! He ordered beer, I ordered water. 😉

  29.  #29Tmizz on August 24, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    I really like the imagery of dancing in this one. It made me think of actual dancing – any kind of couples dance. Swing, Tango, Foxtrot.

    I have to say that I am basically the WORST at following. I always want to take the lead somehow. Sometimes, I even pretend to follow, but really I’m giving the guy subtle clues to take me where I want to go.

    So I know I have to work on this.

    Because I’m almost 100% sure that it’s the same in my relationships. I want my hands on the reins. I want to know where we’re going, and *I* want to drive. It’s the hardest thing for me to do to sit back and let someone ELSE do the driving. Partly it’s because I just like that feeling of being “in control.” I like the certainty of knowing what’s going to happen next. And maybe I’ve been taught to be “independent” and not let anyone else “tell me what to do.” Being “led” feels like someone is telling me where to go – leading me like a dog, maybe, and that grates on me.

    But this isn’t about that. It’s about awareness. Watching. Seeing the situation for what it is, not what you are making it to be, or what you imagine you want. Whether it’s sex or relationship. Or both.

    Thanks, Rori!

  30.  #30tinque on August 24, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    Tmizz – then this is great for you to practice. try being excited and anticipatory about what’s going to happen next instead of being anxious because you don’t know.
    try being in awe, like you see in small children. try being surprised. try being open to everything and anything.
    instead of looking at this as being told what to do, how about thinking of it as being taken on an adventure.

  31.  #31Jennifer on August 24, 2010 at 7:04 pm

    I am asshole…and Im ok with it. I’m gonna sing like dennis leary…I’m an asshole o e o eo !!!
    My co worker is mad at me..and I don’t care. My boss is mad at me and I DONT CARE!!!!
    Stop calling my coworkers idiots? Stop acting like IDIOTS!!!!!
    Call me and tell me you felt like an idiot when called on the carpet? That’s cause you ACTED LIKE AN IDIOT
    and Im OK WITH IT!!!!!
    FUll moon
    3 periods in 6 weeks
    3 sleeps till vacation
    Some dude emailed me on POF and wants to know if I want to play doctor….
    well…in my little world…playing doctor means your an arrogant narcassitic bumble thumbs …..and I have to write an update to you being sooooooo careful of your tiny little ego…I cannot say what I think..I have to ASK you things I already know.
    Then you igore my recomendations

  32.  #32Jennifer on August 24, 2010 at 7:43 pm

    Nurse Jen wants to play
    you cook me dinner and fill your house with candles and give me a warm oil rubdown and do me till tuesday.
    THATS what nurse jen wants to play.

  33.  #33Jennifer on August 24, 2010 at 8:11 pm

    “oh lord it’s hard to be humble.
    when yer perfect in every way
    I can’t wait to look in the mirror
    I get better lookin each day
    To know me is to love me
    I MUST be a hell of a woman ”
    Oh lord it’s hard to be humble.
    But i’m doing the best that I can.”

  34.  #34Renee on August 24, 2010 at 9:17 pm

    Jennifer — You’re funny. I hope you’re day got better after you left work:).

  35.  #35Tina on August 24, 2010 at 9:29 pm

    Im on my mini laptop 🙂 at eggshell mans house.

  36.  #36Tina on August 24, 2010 at 9:31 pm

    we had another one of our kinda weird arguments, this time about Judge Judy lol. I feel the layers of onion peeling baCK.

  37.  #37Tina on August 24, 2010 at 9:33 pm

    Triggers can easily run my life, triggers are running my life. yes life is easier with no triggers and no man to trigger me but then how would i learn abiout ME

  38.  #38Rori Raye on August 24, 2010 at 10:48 pm

    Anna – Welcome – and I can’t give you a quick, easy answer. First – do you want to not be willing to be in a relationship? Because if all you want is sex, escape…I can’t help you with that, you’re doing fine on your own…only – I don’t believe you. Here you are writing so many words trying to figure out a man, who’s not available to you, who’s married and cheating on his wife with you. Why bother? Love, Rori

  39.  #39Tina on August 24, 2010 at 11:35 pm

    i can feel triggered and this easily sets off a bunch of other triggers this can seriously ef up my day

  40.  #40Tina on August 24, 2010 at 11:38 pm

    chicken wings time

  41.  #41janjune on August 24, 2010 at 11:40 pm


    God bless you for trying to take care of your patients.

  42.  #42Jennifer on August 25, 2010 at 3:46 am

    Jajune….thank you.
    I may not be the most hand holding nurse..but by GOD my patients get better.
    They will know about the importance of fluid balance and having a healthy balance of digestive bacteria and the value of diet.
    They will understand the mind-body connection in medicine.
    They will have proper wound care protocol and a wound specialist if needs be.
    So sayeth nurse Jen.


  43.  #43Jennifer on August 25, 2010 at 3:59 am

    I emailed pof guy…I told him doctor was too much like work. I like to play “fill your house with candles, give me a warm oil rubdown and do me till tuesday..its less like work.”
    How do ya like them apples, son.

  44.  #44Renee on August 25, 2010 at 4:26 am

    Hi Jennifer — I’m confused…do you not like the doctor on POF? I would have felt bad/uncomfortable if someone would have emailed me something similar…I guess I’m of the mindset that if I don’t like someone, I just don’t email them back. What do you think?

  45.  #45Renee on August 25, 2010 at 4:52 am

    OK, sirens…wondering what to do here. Went on a date w/Blondie last night (which was ok…he likes me but I’m ambivelant about him) and when I got home, I was tipsy and kind of in the mood for some attention. So…I leaned forward and txted this guy I dated for about a month this past winter…we were going along ok until I had a meltdown because I felt him pulling away and for a few days, his communication was pretty sporadic. This situation disintegrated into my txting him several times — the first of which was my questioning whether something was going on with “us”, the second of which was my chewing him out for being a coward when I hadn’t heard from him within a few hours (this is a guy who usually is joined at the hip to his crackberry).

    Anyhoo — he eventually wrote me back that night and said he’d gone out without his blackberry and that he was very surprised by what I had written. He also said he’d call me the next day, but I never heard from him again. There’s no two ways about it — my NV’s ran him off.

    Let me say that at first, this was a guy who pursued me aggressively and whom I had met through an old friend, and I was immediately drawn to him from our first date. Until the last week we dated, he txted several times a day and shortly before the implosion, we had had a discussion about “pursuing a relationship” with each other…

    So…here’s my question. I don’t know if it’s even possible, but I’d love to have another chance with this guy (partially because he triggered my abandonment issues, no doubt, and partially because he gave me butterflies in my stomach, which is more than anyone else has done in years). I txted him around 11pm last night and just heard back from him this morning…I had written that I’d run across an old picture from college that he was in (we went to the same school and ran around with the same people although we didn’t know each other in college). He gave me the standard, “I’ve been busy. The kids just started back to school last week along with soccer and baseball, so we went from 0 to 60 mph overnight. How are u doing?”

    So my question is…what can I say that will be likely to draw him in? I was going to give him a standard update back (“Things have been pretty crazy with work, which is great. Have sold 3 houses in the past few weeks and just staged a condo, so I feel optimistic that the year is going to end on a high note as far as work goes. I’ve also been volunteering with Habitat, which has been fun…you should have seen me sporting a hard hat and hammering nails while trying not to break a nail…it was pretty funny, actually:-)” ).

    That answer is light-hearted and accurate, but it doesn’t feel like something that would draw him to me again. For all I know, he’s dating someone else or has just filed me in the “nutso” category, never to be considered again. But I feel a small glimmer of hope that he txted me basically first thing this morning. I figure if he’s totally freaked out by me, he wouldn’t have gotten back to me at all, but he sees himself as a “nice guy,” so that could be all he’s doing — acting like a nice guy by getting back to me at all.

    What should I say to him? I suspect a feeling message would do more to open the lines of communication between us, but I honestly don’t know what to say I feel…ideas? Suggestions?

    I’m working to manage my expectations and not let it bother me if I don’t hear back again after my reply, but I’d at least like to make an attempt here…

  46.  #46Linda on August 25, 2010 at 5:34 am

    It is so true. You simply get bored. If a man cant hold the space you open toward him… There is nothing there for me. In fact, I am so over guys like this that I am feeling angry. Thats not good either. Oh well…….. Why put effort in trying to figure out why? I never will ask another man why.. about anything!. I already know the answer. It is simply.. “he does not want to”. Door closed.

    This makes me sad. *sigh *


  47.  #47Linda on August 25, 2010 at 5:37 am


    I have found the men the come in my life have a message and I have learned about me and some about them.

    Sounds like you learned some valuable things about yourself with this guy.

    I would just let it alone…. dont say anything. Sorry that is probably not what you wanted to hear but… leaning forward is soo much work.


  48.  #48ginni on August 25, 2010 at 5:49 am

    Well girls: It was hard i was depressed but i did what Rori said got down in the soup felt my feelings of fear picked myself up went an had chinese food with a great male friend so i would not be sitting by the phone and got home 2 find that he called 🙂 unfortunately i did not address the issues except for making a comment about feeling very angry and he acknowledged it but i know he wanted me to be brave enough to confront him but i did not cause im a chicken lol but we seem to both be willing to keep trying sooo its better than yesterday! im goin lean way back and let him do the work he did offer me money cause ive told him i was strapped so that felt good! RENE drunk texting really never amounts to much i have found but sometimes helps you to be braver than usual if you think the guy is into you i would respond to him a feeling message like feels good to hear from you i would like to talk some time or keep in touch? thats it let him do the rest? it wont feel right if you do any more intiating !

  49.  #49Renee on August 25, 2010 at 6:05 am

    Linda & Ginni — Thanks for your comments…maybe that’s all it’s really supposed to be is a lesson learned (I haven’t had a meltdown like that since then and don’t ever plan to again), but if I feel like there’s even a small chance that he could be interested again, I’d like to gamble on it…I think, with my active CDing and volunteer work, that I would be in a much better place to date him or, for that matter, accept that he doesn’t want to date me, than I was in the past, but that doesn’t keep me from wanting to see if something could happen now that the lines of communication have been tentatively opened. I mean, since I wrote him in the first place, I feel like I should at least write him something back in response…telling him I was having PMS the day I exploded isn’t really the best idea, but that would be an authentic response, lol.

  50.  #50ginni on August 25, 2010 at 6:41 am

    Rene It sounds like you really like this guy and you feel bad about your breakdown but as Rori puts it Do not beat yourself up about anything you did get past it ! He wonL find you attravtive if you feel the need to excuse yourself the truth is your an emotional creature and your beautiful breakdown and all let him feel safe to call you and thats it He has to feel safe and you have to be open and vulervable to letting him make the choice and if he doesnt Move on and learn for the next guy! What do you think? i agree with you to respond you intiated and he responded but i would be truthful and real you would like to hear from him again ! Its just that simple! Keep it light and nothing else!

  51.  #51Renee on August 25, 2010 at 7:42 am

    Well, I wrote a response I feel good about…I gave him a brief update on work and volunteering (made a minor joke about my Habitat work) and then I wrote: “It feels good catching up with you…like I’ve been able to put some old business to rest…have a great day:-)”.

    Yes, it would have been authentic to tell him I’d like to see him again, but I’m choosing to believe that he’s lucky to have an opportunity to be in contact with me again and if he’s had any second thoughts at all about our breaking up, he’ll seize the chance to continue communication…if not, then he won’t, and that’s my proof that he’s not the right guy and that’s ok.

    You’re right Ginni — he didn’t feel safe sharing his emotions with me because I was out of control with my emotions…and that’s an important lesson to learn. In the light of day, I have to realize that sometimes, the damage is too much to undo and if that’s the case, there’s nothing I can do about it. I feel (mostly) unattached to the outcome now, and that’s a better place to be than when the message first came flying across my bberry at 7am this morning…I’m glad I waited to respond until I’d had a chance to regain my composure.

  52.  #52Jennifer on August 25, 2010 at 7:56 am

    hey renee
    he’s kinda cute.
    I saw it as a he was getting my attention like little boys do in the school yard. So I upped the ante.
    Quite frankly I might go sleep with him. I’ve been very tense and could use a bit of therapy.

  53.  #53ginni on August 25, 2010 at 8:21 am

    Hello Sierens: Ok I have been reading and I know we all have our moments but is this about you getting a man for sexual pleasure or to want too commit to you forever ? I was married for 20 years and now dating for 6 and i have felt lonely and wanting attention but when a man offers sexual attention before offering an interest in you this doesnt seem to feel like a solution to feeling wanted belive me Rori saids it should be about you and it should you are the prize and if women think the man is the prize they will just use you! We all have our moments of dispair but what we do with them is whats going to take you out of dispair! Know what makes you feel good and if you just want some sexual fun with no strings attached make sure its with someone thats more than kind of cute make it be a stud that you can be proud you had ! Not just someone looking to use you! We do have powers we are unaware of ! i feel strong I feel scared i feel wonderful and i feel i have a choice to do anything i want ! i feel satisfied!

  54.  #54Turtle Girl on August 25, 2010 at 8:35 am

    What I discovered about myself the last six months while cd’ing is that when I try and “be in control” I am actually feeling out of control inside-in other words the desire to be in control stems from me feeling so out of control.

    It is only when I gave this up I realized that by not being in control at all and not having any idea of “where this is going” I actually gained way more control by not being in control…… see? It sounds backwards, but it is not.

    I mean look around at the world-do we not know intuitively that all control freaks are really out of control? hence the need? Letting go is bliss.
    Letting go is much less work, much less energy, much less effort. Let go and let god. Let go and let whatever happens happens and whatever it is is meant to be.

    There is an amazing book I read called Power vs. Force. It is quite fascinating. I realized I was forcing my relationships and well, you can’t force anything and have it work out for the good. I realized that if I was forcing it, there was something big time wrong.

  55.  #55Turtle Girl on August 25, 2010 at 8:55 am

    Hi Linda-
    So nice to see you here once in a while. I see you learning and growing as have I. I really get the whole “bored” thing.

    Before I circular dated I was never bored with a a man unless I was not attracted to him at all. Now-even the dates I am attracted to a lot get really boring if they do not step up to the plate and lead and do what they should be doing as men. The shift is radical but real and I am so glad. What a difference this one small thing is yet it is not small at all. I had one guy who I really liked but we only had two dates. A few emails and he just never quite seemed to “be that into me” so I stopped writing to him and he just slid off into the sunset. NEXT. Chasing feels horrible. Leading the dance feels horrible. Trying to makes something happen feels horrible. I feel FREE now that I stopped at that bs.
    Free to live my life and if he comes into it-great-if not well ok.

    It is beautiful sunshine here today and I am feeling so grateful for the warm weather and being alive!

  56.  #56ginni on August 25, 2010 at 9:08 am

    Kudos Turtle Girl Kudos ! enjoy the moment feel free to let ur life happen all on its own be in the moment feel great just as things are as you are so beautiful! Let go and feel free ! Don’t settle for less than what you want dating

  57.  #57Brenda on August 25, 2010 at 9:35 am

    Renee, RE: #45 – How about something totally feminine…

    “I feel so happy to hear from you! I feel so relaxed after just taking a long, candlelit bubble bath!”

    Or whatever is your truth…just get yourself relaxed and happy and you can discuss the hectickness and success of your career later.

  58.  #58Terry on August 25, 2010 at 9:39 am

    Hi, all. Between working full time, taking care of my aging mother, and having two surgeries (myself) recently, I haven’t been able to post here in a very long time. I try to skim posts occasionally to keep up with everyone, but I feel behind and lost.

    I feel a bit nervous and sick to my stomach today, but at the same time I also feel empowered.

    I finally did it. I cut a man loose who has been stringing me along for years. I know, I know. BUT, I’ve been using Rori’s tools from her ebook and from a couple of her programs for the past year. I immediately put my profile online and began to CD. I’m still doing that. It has helped me stay centered.

    However, this one guy still held a huge place in my heart. He’s always treats me well and I feel at ease with him. He just can’t commit. He bolts after every discussion of us taking this relationship further.

    Both of my parents were emotionally unavailable and narcissistic. Recently it finally hit me that this *one* guy had such a hold on me, because it felt familiar. It was what I knew. (Age old story) I realized that was his message…always has been.

    While I had always hoped he would “get” it and not take risks of losing me, I knew I needed to take care of myself and be rid of this situation immediately.

    I know he feels shocked, because I’ve never argued with him or threatened him with any of this. I have used lots of feeling messages with him this past year, but I realized nothing was going to change.

    This felt like a huge leap for me and it feels better to just put it out there and say it out loud. Thanks for listening.

    I feel really sad, but I feel better knowing that I am growing and learning…and most of all, learning to take care of my heart and know I’m deserving of love.

  59.  #59Rori Raye on August 25, 2010 at 9:40 am

    Turtle Girl – this is profound – “when I try and “be in control” I am actually feeling out of control inside-in other words the desire to be in control stems from me feeling so out of control.” Love, Rori

  60.  #60Turtle Girl on August 25, 2010 at 9:53 am

    Thanks Rori-
    xxoo to you.

    I discovered that my “control issues” really are all about fear. Fear he won’t love me, fear I won’t get my happy ever after, fear this fear that. You had a post a bit back about this. It is my belief there are only two emotions. Love or fear. All other emotions fall into one of these two categories. Fear is leaning forward, controlling, fixing, manipulating, hating, judging, etc etc.

    Love is embracing with joy, receiving, letting go, being grateful, kind, compassionate, honesty, and truth, authenticity. All love.

    We women have confused our “doting over men” with love but it’s not. It’s control. It’s fear. We expect something from it and that’s not love, it’s hijacking him. lol………….*sigh* onward and forward and here’s to all of us learning and growing……in love………xxoo

  61.  #61dorothea on August 25, 2010 at 10:06 am

    I find that when I take control or try to be in control with a man or have to be in control, i feel OUT of control.

    this is a great contrast to my non-romantic life, where i am careful and controlled with every move i make and project i start.

    feels so much better.

  62.  #62tinque on August 25, 2010 at 10:58 am

    Releasing control is tricky stuff, hugely scary yet hugely liberating when you can, AND it feels SO good.

  63.  #63Linda on August 25, 2010 at 11:04 am

    Nice to hear from you Turtle Girl 🙂

    Waiting on a man to step up or using feeling messages with one who seems to listen but changes nothing or does not respond is soooo freakin maddening. I recently found that one guy was so emotionally unavailable and narrsacistic that a feeling message used on him would get turned around as a weapon against me . It was like I was giving him bulls eyes to hit and leads into how to hurt me dead center. I dont like using feeling messages because of that experience. It was like I was taking a risk, being vunerable… (casting pearsl before swine) sorta thing. It just felt bad. I would only feel good for a little bit inside me and then later I wished I had not shared a thing about how I feel. Like… “It felt really good to dance with you”…his reponse… “Good”…. end of conversation. This guy has no idea or desire to “Do Intimacy” even in conversation. UGH

    It has been so long since someone (male or female) has done anything nice for me that I forget what it feels like. I enjoy doing my own thing and my own company but I almost feel isolated.

    Going a long time without hugs and human affection gets really really discouraging.

    I am however glad to have my dog. He is a great snuggle bug.


  64.  #64Nikita on August 25, 2010 at 11:29 am


    Congratulations!!!!! I’m opening the champagne for you 😉

  65.  #65Renee on August 25, 2010 at 11:47 am

    Terry — I don’t know you but it sounds like you’ve taken an amazing step towards growth. Having an alcoholic father, I have found myself also drawn towards emotionally unavailable men, something I’m working on.

    But the fact that you have such a history with this guy and have obviously cared for him a great deal, but yet are putting yourself above him speaks volumes to me…you’re my new hero:-).

  66.  #66Lucy on August 25, 2010 at 11:50 am

    Turtle Girl, I’m printing out your piece on love and fear — magnificent!!! <3

  67.  #67Nikita on August 25, 2010 at 11:55 am


    A man on a sex site knows exactly what he’s doing. He’s looking for sex. If the man says he felt guilty it’s probably because he knows he has betrayed his wife, lied to someone, misled someone, used you, lied to himself. I am on this site because this interests me. I am not on a sex site because I have zero interest in casual sex with married men or single men.

    As I read your story about the man you frolicked with I thought he is escaping reality. He is evading responsibility. He knows exactly what he is doing-maybe his guilt feelings were real……hopefully his guilt feelings will prevent him from continuing to cheat on his wife by cruising sex sites.

  68.  #68Tmizz on August 25, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    re: Tinque

    Yes. I know what I have to do. Right now, I’m just imagining that I can do it. Gotta start somewhere. Baby steps.

    Because even though I KNOW that it feels so great and liberating to let GO of the control sometimes, I know that I have this major fear around it.

    I don’t where the fear comes from or what it’s connected to. So maybe getting to the bottom of it is part of the process. Or just being able to do it is the way to connect with it through experience.

    I think this goes for a lot of people, not just me. A lot of us want to try to “control” things, and we find that it just backfires on us. It’s so much harder to take our hands off the steering wheel, but ironically, that seems to be when it all “happens” for us. I’m looking forward to having the confidence to be able to do that. But right now I think my inner child is asking me to indulge it just a little bit. To let it be happy. Let it do its thing. And after that it will listen to me. I’ll have a stronger relationship with myself, and then I can have stronger relationships with others as well.

  69.  #69tinque on August 25, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Tmizz – It has been my experience that it’s not usually useful to know why. Often you never can figure it out. So I would suggest to just do. Not so easy, yet it’s possible.
    Most of us struggle with some aspect of wanting to control, whether it be a situation or a person, and the same area of wanting to control may still come to visit now and then, but you will recognize it which can make it easier to handle.
    I have been dealing lately with an old control issue.
    This same piece seems to come to haunt me EVERY time I peel back another layer of stuff. Though it may look and feel like the same beast, it’s not because I’m in a different place, for I’m ever closer to my wide open pure love heart.
    Yes I do have to get myself to back off myself and the object of my wanting control, but each time, once I get my light bulb, it’s so much easier to just tell myself, “what am I doing. what am I thinking. silly, silly me,” and from there I can act in love, not fear which is what this control stuff is. Someone above mentioned this.
    And that quickly “it” is gone. Though it may take a long while to get to the light bulb, once I’m there it’s simple.

  70.  #70Tmizz on August 25, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Turtle Girl:

    Thank you! I believe that is absolutely correct. I feel so out of control that I “need” to control what is going on around me. It is very clearly a yucky feeling. lol

    I remember watching my mom do this so many times – all the time, really – growing up. She was (is) always trying to control everything and everyone around her. And it was so a) painful to watch, and b) obvious to me all the time that she really never was in control. now I find I’m doing that myself! Somewhere along the way, I think I lost my sense of self and my sense of personal power. I guess trying to get that back is the hard part. feeling that I don’t have it drives me to “control” things. But even I know that that doesn’t make me “in control.” *sigh* But thinking about this is reminding me that there ARE other options, and I KNOW how to do it, even if I haven’t been practicing it lately. 🙂

    But I might like to check out that book. It sounds good!

  71.  #71Jacqueline on August 25, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    Hi! ladies….

    @ Renee – I think it’s cool that the guy wrote back, and your message is great! congrats on selling real estate!

    anyway, when you thought of a reply it sounded just like what Rori says not to do , when we do the goodnite call….not to recap our manly doing ways….hahaaa……

    but to say, I feel sooo good, sleepy, excited….etc. and purrrrr melt become the cat….

    so how can you answer like that? do you want to? I’d be intrigued to see what response that elicited!


  72.  #72Jacqueline on August 25, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    @ Tinque…hi! your asking me about my name yesterday really made a difference on my blog site – I decided I just couldn’t use a pen name cuz my name has so much meaning/family/stories to it….and changed it. Feels way more authentic, too.

    Love the way you turn a phrase here….your methods are so soft yet tell the truth!


  73.  #73Terry on August 25, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    Knocksoftly, wow I know how you feel. Finally letting this guy go felt extremely scary to me. He isn’t a bad guy at all. He has a really good heart and treated me well – when he was available. Putting myself on a dating site felt really scary, too. The first step really is the hardest with any change.

    I feel so proud of you for making changes to your hair! It’s good to shake things up like that. You will fabulous for your birthday. I hope your birthday is a fun one. I feel bad that you’re feeling so sad.

    I’m still taking deep breaths. I still feel shakey. But, I know the alternative of continuing this relationship would just feel worse.

    Nikita, thanks! Whoa that feels like a great idea!! You’re right. I’m stopping at the liquor store after work and getting a bottle myself. : )

    Renee, new hero? Wow, thanks. I feel humbled. Yes, I care for this guy deeply. And I know he cares deeply for me, too. I feel it in the way he holds me, talks to me, kisses me, etc. He just can’t commit to marriage and I want more.

    I finally had to get real with myself and admit after all these years, that this guy was no longer doing this to me anymore – I was doing this to myself.

  74.  #74Terry on August 25, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    I like this from Daria: “Women are always gonna keep a heartdoor open for that one guy that CLAIMS THEM with masculine energy, regardless of how good other men look on paper.”

    I like this one from Turtle Girl, too: “Now-even the dates I am attracted to a lot get really boring if they do not step up to the plate and lead and do what they should be doing as men.”

  75.  #75Alicia on August 25, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    Thanks for the post on intimacy.
    Although, I’m taking some time to work on me with a counselor and date but, not have sex for a bit.. Or/Well, until I feel a real connection and intimacy. I like what this article says. It’s so different then how I use to be. I use to feel like “I had to – to “get or keep” the guy” but, I have grown so far beyond that now and it feels really good! This article is just a good a reminder for when that time comes. 🙂

    Watching the Dvd”s from the point at I’m at today.. Just relaxed and lean backed is so different when I was in the middle of a heartache. Now I feel like it’s whole new information. Even though it’s the same. The tools and self control, awareness, is just a whole new me. 🙂

  76.  #76Renee on August 25, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    We may not be able to have control, but we can have self control…something I need to keep reminding myself.

    I felt good with my last message to winter guy when I wrote it, but the fact that he didn’t write back did end up bugging me a little…not a lot, but just enough to scratch the scar on that old wound…why I open myself to that kind of thing, I’ll never know, but if I ever feel tempted again, at least I can come here and write how I feel. I feel out of control! And I want to let go!

  77.  #77Renee on August 25, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    Jennifer — what happened to the man who wanted to “play doctor”?

  78.  #78Brenda on August 25, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    I had a good day with Bill. Just as I arrived at work, he and Matt were just heading to the cafeteria for a coffee break. Bill invited me, so I joined them! It was nothing earth-shattering, just nice to be around him. I chatted with him for a minute or two a couple other times during the day, and it was all positive.

    I feel happy, but I also want him to ask me out for a real date. I give him until September.

    In the meantime, I revised my profiles on my dating sites. So I’ll see if anything comes of that.

    Ryan texted me today and asked me how I’m doing. Felt good. I love my Ry Guy. I miss him, and I told him so. But I also told him I am happy and relaxed.

  79.  #79Jennifer on August 26, 2010 at 4:01 am

    Hey Renee…
    he messaged me back and said..sign me up I used to be an RMT.
    Now I feel like drooling…..mmmm RMT!!!!
    I messaged back that I feel dissapointed I’m goin on vacation…raincheck?
    I felt a little nervous about NOT jumping on this “opportunity” right away..but really..I gots stuff to do the next two night and then I leave for the US….and quite frankly…I’m worth waiting a week for.
    So there it is.
    Bowen therapy lady says that feeling “friendly” like this is part of my body sysytem trying to balance itself.
    I had to go to bowen yesterday cause I was getting Atypical Migraine Aura….but the good news is that a coccyx proceedure fixed it right up

  80.  #80Renee on August 26, 2010 at 8:18 am

    Brenda — Good for you. I’m glad you had a great interaction with Bill. I sure hope he asks you out soon, though…I know you’re struggling not to be attached to the outcome, but I think it’s a great idea to retool your online dating profiles.

    I’m still dating cougar man, but he’s starting to pressure me into seeing only him…I don’t know how much longer I will continue to see him if he keeps pressuring me. The other night, I asked him if we could reevaluate in a few weeks and go from there and he agreed, but he pouts every time he finds out I have “plans” (he usually asks what I’ve got going on that day and if I say I have “plans”, he assumes it means a date — it often does, lol).

    I enjoy having company and he can be fun, but it’s a big turn off when someone pressures you to be exclusive with them, you know? I’m not against becoming exclusive with someone down the road, but I doubt it will be him and it would only be for a while…if I get to a point where I’m ready to settle down with someone and he’s not “ready”, I’ll pull out the old CD tool and make myself do it.

    If there’s one thing I’ve been learning after dating so much recently and that’s that there are actually plenty of people out there to date…it’s easy to get so attached to one person that you forget there are lots of others, but I’m going to do my best to keep that in mind (and hopefully, you all will remind me if I ever reach that point, lol).

  81.  #81Brenda on August 26, 2010 at 8:25 am

    Hi Renee,

    You’re doing a great job! I redid my profiles yesterday.

    I am going to CD Lucy on Friday! LOL! Maybe I can convince her to see Eat, Pray, Love afterwards with me! We are going to a nice restaurant where we went twice before. I’m sure she’d rather be with TN Man or WH, but she is a nice friend!

    I am getting out more and working on meeting men that way, in person. I much prefer it.

    Have you told Cougar Man you feel pressured?

  82.  #82Jilly on August 26, 2010 at 9:38 am

    Hey Sirens!! I just got back into town last night..I feel I have so much to say…

    Renee..who’s cougar man and what happened with Robert? and Doctor man?

    Brenda…good for you with staying relaxed and happy with Ry texting you 🙂 and coffee break with Bill 🙂

    Jennifer…you crack me up! I loved how you upped the ante! He obviously liked it as well 😉

    So…I went out with Boss man last Friday night and it was AMAZING! I did an experiment and drove to his house though because its on the way home from my work and I live an hour logistically it was better…
    anywho..he planned the date…we took his motorcycle up this canyon to an old country bar with live music and had a few beers..then went to a different place and ate dinner and listened to the Karioke? and then went to his place was 1 am so we decided it would be better for me to stay then have to drive home an hour and then get up and drive back for work..

    I leaned back the entire time and felt totally sireny and beautiful…we did sleep in his bed and cuddled the whole night and he is very aggressive in bed and quite the seducer, amazing kisser!…BUT we did not have sex because i asked him not to seduce me ALL the way on the first date and he said ok he wouldn’t because he respects me lol so I totally put it on him to keep himself in check and he did…but OHHHHHH if/when it happens it will be AMAZING!!!

  83.  #83Brenda on August 26, 2010 at 9:40 am



  84.  #84Jilly on August 26, 2010 at 9:53 am

    Oh ya…and the next morning he kept saying that we need to do something again soon…and I was totally cocky and said “teasingly” that I was really busy and I’ll see what I can do..and that he’ll have to get in line! lol he started laughing and just pulled me closer…I LOVED it!

    Then on Monday…I let him know I left my sunglasses at his house and he responded that he had just found them and was going to call me that night…(who really knows) he is going to colorado with the guys for the week/weekend so he said he could tell me where the key to his house is and I could go get them or wait until he gets back and we can finish what we started?!

    I then texted that I’ll just wait…but I feel that he needs to stay away from me lol

    him: is that so? why?
    him: i thought you liked me?
    me: oh i do…obviously;)
    me: because I’m a woman and I start feeling attached after sex and i’m not sure I could say no to your seducing skills 😉

    next text
    me:but our date felt fun, exciting and relaxing all in one..I felt good about it so thank you 🙂 and I’m still open for more…but I’m not a casual sex kinda girl.
    him: I understand what you are saying completely…I had a great night with you and would love to take you out again

    yea!!! i’ve used lots of feeling messages with him and he seems to respond really well to them. he told me he likes how upfront I am and that he doesn’t have to guess with me. I feel good about that…because I’m upfront in a soft open vulnerable kind of way

  85.  #85Jilly on August 26, 2010 at 10:04 am

    things are still going well with sailor man too 🙂 this is definitely a first for me…dating multiple men that I’m actually interested in!!! wahooo!!! I am sleeping with sailor man though and i’m able to keep my emotions in check..that’s what made it easier to say no to boss man…I just feel bad about the thought of sleeping with more than one man at a time!!!

  86.  #86Jilly on August 26, 2010 at 10:06 am

    i did lean forward with sailor and made sure he wasn’t sleeping with anybody else…he is such a good guy….he’s the safer one out of the two.

  87.  #87Brenda on August 26, 2010 at 10:14 am


    Good job with keeping the sexual tension high in your texts!!

    I got a text from my hot date Friday…Lucy! She is game for seeing Eat, Pray, Love with me after dinner! Ha! We’ll have fun and talk about men!

  88.  #88Jilly on August 26, 2010 at 10:18 am

    thanks Bren!! i want to watch eat, pray, love with you guys 😉

  89.  #89Brenda on August 26, 2010 at 10:29 am

    Ok, I think it’s only a 3000 to 4000 mile drive for you to where we live! Come join us! 🙂

  90.  #90Daria on August 26, 2010 at 10:40 am

    Jilly, Rori recommends that unless you are a woman that feels secure sleeping with multiple men – and she says most dont – to be sexually exclusive – after the first time, which is a “checking it out” free session for u and him

    that would be a sexually exclusivity speech like,

    I don’t feel comfortable to have sex unless its exclusive. What do you think?

  91.  #91Daria on August 26, 2010 at 10:40 am

    Brenda I feel triggered. Blah

  92.  #92Brenda on August 26, 2010 at 11:28 am

    Daria, you feel triggered by what? Something I said?

  93.  #93dorothea on August 26, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    ginni, what you said about emotions and breakdowns being beautiful made me feel so much better than i have been feeling lately. I feel like one long rolling breakdown these days, and i start to feel humiliated that LI can see that, but i shouldn’t be beating myself up, especially when he is 100 bazillion percent supportive and not judgmental. feeling humiliated and letting that fuel more negative emotion is the opposite of doing me and him the favor of trying to keep it light whenever the opportunity to enjoy lightness is within reach.

  94.  #94dorothea on August 26, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    he gives me permission to let it go and keep it right, and not beat myself up for his sake. there’s nothing to apologize for. oh, i’m sorry you saw me being human? wtf and lol.

    i guess I’M not giving me permission. i don’t feel worthy of feeling better after feeling very upset. i feel like i need to punish myself for getting upset in the first place.

    haha that doesn’t even make any sense!! silly Dorothea

  95.  #95Lucy on August 26, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    Boohoo. I feel jealous of Jilly! Her date sounds a lot like mine with WH (complete with forgotten glasses!) — except BETTER!!!! 🙁 (especailly the part where he said he wants to see her again.)

    I feel jealous and pouty.

  96.  #96Lucy on August 26, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Jilly, why is sailor “safer” than boss?

  97.  #97Lucy on August 26, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    Dorothea re: 96… maybe this will help:



    PRIMARY INTENT: Consider that our capacity for gentleness becomes evident in how we take care of ourselves through moments when we don’t appear to care for anything.

    VIBRATIONAL INTENT: Love. Consider that the caliber of love we feel for ourselves shows its face most clearly when we are experiencing any sort of pain, discomfort, and suffering. Can we love ourselves when we feel afraid, angry, and sad? Can we love ourselves when we feel ashamed, embarrassed, and humiliated? Can we love ourselves when we feel superior, arrogant, and righteous? Can we love ourselves when we feel hopeless, broken, and lost? Can we love ourselves when we feel bored, useless, and unproductive? Consider that if we can only love ourselves when we feel good, positive, and upbeat – then it is likely that our current perception of love is lacking in the elixir of gentleness.

    HEART INTENT: Gentleness. Consider that there is no point in trying to not be upset when we are. Consider that there is no point in trying to not be afraid, angry, or sad, when we are. Consider that it is hard enough having to experience these emotional signatures without adding denial into the mix. Consider that the gentle heart always validates experience – yet also does not lose causal awareness by identifying with it. Consider that when we feel afraid, angry, or sad – or any felt emotional state which is uncomfortable – that this is an opportunity to cultivate gentleness toward ourselves, and to all currently exposed to our experience. Consider that when we feel sad we can still gently run ourselves a candlelit bubblebath. Consider that when we are angry we can still take ourselves for a gentle walk in nature. Consider that when we are afraid we can still gently prepare ourselves a tasty, nutritious meal. Consider that gentleness is the unconditional attribute of love which counteracts moments when everything feels hard – that gentleness is not manipulative – it does not arise to make anything better – it arises because it is gentle.

    — Michael Brown

  98.  #98Tmizz on August 26, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    That was lovely. Thank you for sharing. 🙂

  99.  #99Jilly on August 26, 2010 at 10:10 pm

    Lucy…don’t feel jealous of me yet!! wait until I actually go on a second date with boss man 😉
    The reason sailor feels “safer” is because the chemistry is still building between us on my end..he’s not typically the kind of guy I would see and take a second look but he is becoming more and more attractive to me..that’s why I can have sex right now and not totally feel attached… but with boss man…”long sigh…” he’s the typical “bad boy” every girl tries to get him and there is MAJOR!!!!!!! chemistry right from the get go. I feel that sailor has the ability to do a relationship and I have my doubts about boss man.

  100.  #100Jilly on August 26, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    Daria..thanks for that feeling message…why do you feel triggered?

  101.  #101Lisa on August 31, 2010 at 12:01 am

    I feel confused. “The guy” chatted with me the other night and mentioned the fun times we have had, when we met up when he was in a nearby town or when I went to see him before. He was trying to draw me in and I did not feel safe because after we had sex in December, when he came back in February, he had all excuses why he couldn’t see me. Now he is trying to seduce me again. I told him there was kinda someone I met. He asked and I don’t know how he figured it out, other than maybe he thought because I finally said I cannot do casual sex, maybe he thinks it is because of this someone else. But I have only been in touch with the new guy 2 weeks and he lives 1300 miles away, whereas “the guy” is usually working in this area here and there. I almost melted when the guy then said if he weren’t on the road so much, he would have been more determined to not be so casual with me. I don’t buy that. I felt like he was feeding a line to get me to have sex with him. God I want to, it has been since December with him since I have had sex. I feel if I do, he will do as before and be avoidant again because I have told him I cannot do casual sex. I feel it would be contradictory to decide to go ahead and contact him and say, “Ok I’ll take you up on the offer to have some fun again”. I feel vulnerable as I am moving to my own place. He did ask if I was moving somewhere on my own, just me? I said yes and talked about how excited I was about it. I could tell by his response that he was glad I was not moving in with someone. But I feel scared with him. As much as I would like to feel close to him, be sexual, I fear his behavior after. He knows I want more than just being sexual, a commitment, and I fear becoming close sexually because I cannot do the casual and not have feelings. Now I want to send a message to him saying “I feel close to you when we have sex. As a woman, it makes me feel attached to you. That part does not feel good because you don’t reciprocate that feeling. I want to be with you but I feel afraid I will be hurt again.” How does that sound. Should I tell him that or just let him believe this new guy wants me and see if he “snaps to”?

  102.  #102Isa on September 7, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    sigh…I gotta riff again…I gotta shake the granules of fear out of my sexual encounters…for my sake…

    when I am aroused yet terrified I feel guilty like I am supossed to be sexier, more whole, and that pressure makes me feel tight…I observed myself ( love that phrase its so zen) and I was hot and bothered I wanted to fuck him be fucked by him yet…his hand on my side sparked pleasure and nervousness..I offer a love song to my self…my inner femiNine goddess and I heal her with forgivness. acceptance…and more….I offer her a refusal to formulize the process but promise her I will not become complacent. I will just stop shouting at her to be better to BE THE CHANGE TO BE CHANGED….from that sneaky inside voice….He who pauses with me…breathes with me…wins…

  103.  #103Cherie on November 27, 2010 at 4:26 am

    Recently I have started talking again with my ex … we broke up 4 months ago but were only together 8 months. At first I said I’d appreciate his advice as I was starting to date again and he has mentioned that we had sex too early, that he feels very strongly that its important for a couple to wait as long as they can getting to know each other before having sex. I just felt when we were together that he never really showed affection, and that any affection led to sex and he couldn’t seem to be affectionate just for its own sake … but I didn’t tell him this as it doesn’t matter now. However, I said I think its not always important if you have sex early, that sometimes its ok because I think some people like to express themselves sexually and are able to enjoy it for its own specialness without it having to mean anything else. I know this is hard to do, once a woman is connecting sexually with a man its normal to feel emotionally connected. What do you think Rori? Is it necessarily a mistake to have sex early. Do you believe its better to wait? Do you think a relationship can develop without the man having less respect for you. My ex seems to think a man just loses interest if the sex is too early but I wonder if all men feel this way. My new man says he doesn’t think it matters, that he has fallen in love before with women who have had sex early on and for him its not a problem and he likes to know how the woman he is interested in is sexually early on because sex is important to him. But he says everything else is important to him too that’s not all he wants. Do I believe him, or is it true most men will lose interest if you are not a “challenge”?

  104.  #104Cherie on November 27, 2010 at 4:31 am

    PS … I loved Eat Pray Love 🙂

  105.  #105Apple on January 2, 2011 at 11:07 pm

    He there, i left a share on here yesterday and it seems to have disappeared.. am i missing something??

  106.  #106Tmizz on January 13, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    I just have to say that I read this post again. And I loved it – again.

    And it’s interesting to see that I’m at a totally different place than I was when I first read this, but it’s still so totally relevant. In fact, I think I’m doing it!

    There’s been a new person, just dating casually for a few weeks, and then suddenly, out of the blue, he just stopped “moving forward.” He was there, doing his own thing, but if I wanted to talk, I had to contact him first. he would respond, but it just wasn’t the same. Then he tried to break it off with me. I said I didn’t want that to happen, and after we talked about it, he said he was “here to stay.” But those were just words to me. I still want/ed to SEE that he was (is) here to stay. I want/ed to know that he was still interested and coming around – by actually being interested and coming around. he didn’t do that. Or hasn’t done it recently. He didn’t show up for me at all last weekend. I was disappointed and figured it was all over, and ready to move on to better things. Finally, he wrote to me to say how much he liked me and was committed to staying with me, and “not to worry” if I didn’t hear from him for a few days at a time. But that wasn’t all okay with me. It feels like not really a commitment. It feels like he’s taking me for granted, and just expecting me to be there for him, without him actually having to do anything for it. And while those words are nice, they are just words, not already backed up by actual active commitment.

    So I took a few days to think about it. Then I wrote him an email in response, telling him how I felt. Then I thought that the email was perhaps a little too involved, so I followed it with a text message. Short and sweet. It mainly said, thank you for the email, and take all the time you need to think about what you want to do, but in the mean time, I am going to be seeing other people and doing other things.

    No response from him just yet. So I am just stepping back. I am waiting to see what happens. And if he comes forward, then he comes forward. If he doesn’t, then, as he said, I’m getting bored and moving on. Because, to tell you the truth, I’m already a little bit bored, and that’s WHY I’m stepping back. But, at least as far as I’m concerned, I’m still open.

    Baby steps, baby steps.

    Meanwhile, on a bus today, an attractive guy smiled at me and I smiled back. Then later, he literally got off the bus just to say hi to me and to give me his number. Well, contact information. He was taller, Australian. He seemed nice. And I think I might actually get in touch with him and go for a date. I have absolutely no reason not to.

    Because I’ve never committed myself to this other guy. Not when we’ve been dating only a month, and he hasn’t been giving me the time and attention that I feel I deserve. So if he wants to, that’s fine. And if not, then I know he really wasn’t all that serious.

    So, all in all, it’s been a pretty good day. And even though there’s no real question here for me, I just wanted to share all that, because I think it’s awesome. And it’s good to celebrate the small successes.

    And thank you, Rori, and all of you here, because your support, wisdom and advice have definitely helped me a lot! xoxo

  107.  #107Lisa on February 22, 2011 at 3:01 am

    I am curious what is meant by being open. When my current sex partner gets hold of me, I try to be warm but since our experience is sex when we are together, there doesn’t seem to be time to talk, etc. We do look into each others’ eyes.

    He had recently asked me if I liked it when we just had sex and then he leaves. I said no indirectly and asked if he wanted to stay and he said no he just wants to have sex and go. He is 25 and I am 44 and so I realize maybe the age difference applies.

    But I like how he takes charge, initiates and he drives to my place always. He texted me the past couple weekends not initiating sex the one time and I was curious why he texted but I didn’t lean forward except once to say come over, to which he replied he was tired he wouldn’t last long. That is when we got into a sexual text chat and then he asked if I liked it when he had sex with me and then left. Of course it ended with him saying he just wants to have sex. I said that is the way it has been going anyway. But now that we have talked about it, it feels weird. Now I feel even more anxious when I don’t hear from him.

    We were together on Valentine’s Day and he said he would get hold of me later this week. It is past later this week but it is normal we don’t see each constantly on the same day each week. Since he brought up the staying over, when he came on Valentine’s Day he said I could fall asleep right now as he as sitting on the edge of the bed. I didn’t offer because he had said he didn’t want to stay and I did not want to seem I was trying to make him stay. I think if he says that again, I will offer it and leave it up to him. We both work a late shift so sleeping would be what was happening, as far as I know. He said he doesn’t stay over because we don’t date and he doesn’t know me at all. When I asked if he wanted to get to know me or keep things as they are, he said he just wants to have sex. So that’s what it is, but of course I feel attached.

  108.  #108Al on April 19, 2011 at 12:22 am

    How can I find Part 2 of
    How To Create Emotional Intimacy With Sex

  109.  #109LoveMatters on June 5, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    My husband of 20 years is a very sensitive, giving, loving, sexy and compassionate man. Other women think so as well and he was unfaithful a decade ago with a variety of women in a variety of levels of relationship. I stayed. Among other things, I believe he was emasculated by me badgering him for sex and sought relief elsewhere. Last year I don’t believe he was unfaithful sexually, but he was surfing live-video porn sites regularly and I believe had some secret rendezvous with other women. I called him on it and left, then spent the last year trying to get the gumption to divorce. Last week I told him I wanted a divorce and left for a different state. As usual, he is pining for me.

    Also – we have had sexual issues for 20 years. He does not like to have sex as often as I do, he does not like to initiate and it takes about two weeks for him to build up enough desire to initiate. When we are apart, he is much more sexually open – he obviously has issues with true intimacy, and not just about sex, also about sharing feelings. I do not feel desired, it is deadening. I feel like he would rather take pictures and videos of me than be with me, although he denies that. I believe he feels safe with distance; but I’m sick of it.

    All this said – I just learned that I am the boy in the relationship :(.

    He has never come clean completely about his indiscretions – he says that I keep bringing up the past and we need to move forward. I believe he needs to come clean so that I can feel like he has the capacity to be honest.

    I have become my own rock star, but it is hard. That’s what prompted me asking for the divorce (last straw sort of thing). I went out with a few of my girlfriends to a dinner play and he saw what I was wearing (skirt, high heels) and flipped out which means completely withdrawing from me. It’s no fun to live with someone that does that, I’m sick of it. It brings me down – I try to stay happy and focus on myself but when someone is moping around in the same house it takes too much energy to stay happy – so I left and said I wanted a divorce.

    Do I really go back and try to outgirl him?

    We once did a Mars/Venus marriage counseling thing and during the counseling we did a male/female energy questionnaire. I don’t remember the exact scores but each person would have had 0-100% female and 0-100% male energy.
    His was like 70% male and 80% female
    Mine was like 60% male and 90% female

    This is the second time I’ve left the state and said it’s over, but the first time I’ve used the D word (divorce). Going back will not make a good track record.

    And yes, I feel deeply in love, best friends, soul mates, etc. – He gives me two hour massages, he cooks for me, he would do anything for me. (Sometimes this makes me crazy like “No, I’m fine, I don’t want a glass of water, I don’t want any food, I don’t want anything, please stop asking.” – Although I don’t say that.)

    Sometimes I just feel like we are sexually incompatible.

    Any new perspectives on this?

  110.  #110Lucy on June 5, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    Lovematters, it sounds like he could be asexual. It is a sexual orientation where the person usually has a very mild sex drive and is happy fulfilling it independently. Asexuals are not usually drawn to sexual relationships with other people, but are sometimes interested in platonic ones.Occasionally they have sexual flings with a person for a variety of reasons consistent with their asexuality. Mostly they prefer masturbation. You can find some info online and see if it resonates w your experience. <3 Lucy

  111.  #111LoveMatters on June 5, 2011 at 2:29 pm

    Thx for the reply Lucy –

    He appears to have a normal sex drive when we are apart via phone/web chat – but not when we’re together.

  112.  #112Amy on July 12, 2012 at 5:08 pm

    We never had sex so there is no intimacy !
    Married 45 years and the last time I had sex or intimacy was on our wedding night. From that day till today there has been nothing between us. He lives his life alone in the basement with no TV,computer, radio no newspapers, he has his shop where I hear him all the time. He has worked 40 + on the midnight shift. As for me , I have the upstairs ! We are only married on paper. We are not even friends any more, I really don’t think we were ever. I occupy my time away from the house, and work a part time job. He doesn’t miss me at all. Life for me has been sh*(y, always depressed and unwanted.

  113.  #113Rori Raye on July 12, 2012 at 10:51 pm

    Amy, Welcome and I’m going to talk about your situation in a post…it’ll go up as soon as I can write it. AND – it’s going to be harsh, tough, and I’m not sure you’ll even want to read it. I’m so hoping you have a boyfriend, a great bunch of friends, a real social life, a great part-time job, and fun hobbies. If not, please ask yourself who’s holding the key to your dungeon, who put you there, and what’s keeping you there….Love, Rori

  114.  #114Amy on July 13, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    Hi Rori:
    I don’t mind reading harsh or tough language, and I will read it.
    Ya know as for a boy friend, I really don’t trust men anymore. I ignore any man who trys to talk to me. Over the years men have asked me out, I just won’t do it. They disgust me !!!!! My hobbies are vacations for months at a time. I’m the one who is holding me captive in this marriage. I should have left years ago, but I’m in my mid 60s now and really don’t care for sex any more. I’m not educated enough to go out on my own, and we have very little money, hes retired and we have just about enough to get by. Thanks

  115.  #115Tasha on August 8, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    Does Rori have a response to Cherie: I am in the same boat!! I dont understand

    “At first I said I’d appreciate his advice as I was starting to date again and he has mentioned that we had sex too early, that he feels very strongly that its important for a couple to wait as long as they can getting to know each other before having sex. I just felt when we were together that he never really showed affection, and that any affection led to sex and he couldn’t seem to be affectionate just for its own sake … but I didn’t tell him this as it doesn’t matter now. However, I said I think its not always important if you have sex early, that sometimes its ok because I think some people like to express themselves sexually and are able to enjoy it for its own specialness without it having to mean anything else. I know this is hard to do, once a woman is connecting sexually with a man its normal to feel emotionally connected. What do you think Rori? Is it necessarily a mistake to have sex early. Do you believe its better to wait? Do you think a relationship can develop without the man having less respect for you. My ex seems to think a man just loses interest if the sex is too early but I wonder if all men feel this way. My new man says he doesn’t think it matters, that he has fallen in love before with women who have had sex early on and for him its not a problem and he likes to know how the woman he is interested in is sexually early on because sex is important to him. But he says everything else is important to him too that’s not all he wants. Do I believe him, or is it true most men will lose interest if you are not a “challenge”?”