How To Date a Righteously Busy Man

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closedeyemanMen who are righteously “busy” are a challenge.

You can’t fault them for not spending time with you because they’re saving the world.

Or leading a symphony, or holding down two jobs, or taking care of their small children after wrestling custody of them from their drug-addict ex-wives. (I’ve dated a man in that situation – it’s not as far-fetched as you’d think.)

So, here’s a letter about that, from Anna, who’s looking at this in a way that will not work for her. It’s almost a “doormat” way to look at things…because she’s got one of those righteously busy men, and he seems like such a prize.

Remember, as you read this — it doesn’t matter HOW GREAT he is. If you want a fling with an amazing, difficult, busy man, then do it. But if you want lifelong love and family and attention, affection and great sex…look elsewhere…:

“Rori, I read your articles all the time. Thanks for your insight! I am seeing a medical student 4th year. We have been friends for a while, so I know the demands of his schedule. We tried to take it past the friendship level (not sex), but the pressure was too heavy with school, so we backed up alot. How do I pace myself to maintain interest (for both of us). I know there is something there. He primarily calls me when he can talk (about 3 times a week). Don’t want to make him feel like I want to compete at this time, but show him I care. Anna.”

And here’s my answer:

Anna – Medical students and residents – all graduate students – do so much better married or with steady girlfriends. They feel supported, they can have regular sex, and they don’t have to do anything. Because they’re doctors, they are considered, as you instinctively consider him – to be excused from normal human issues.

And then, when they get out of school – they’re doctors – and it’s different than it used to be. They are no longer gods who can command huge salaries and put out a shingle anywhere. There are more and more doctors and less and less jobs, and the money isn’t that good, and the pressure is humongous…

Used to be (and know this from the women I went to college with) – that a man would lean on his girlfriend through college and medical school (or law school, or business school…) and then graduate and get his certifications and licenses and start making huge money and attract women from everywhere and then DUMP his same girlfriend who stood by him her whole college life.

Now – it’s not the same. Moving out into the work world is harder these days, and the stress of school hangs on. But, still, just as in the old days, a man who makes a successful transition from school to work OFTEN starts out in a new direction personally, too.

Now he wants to see the world. Now he wants every woman who comes onto him. Now he thinks he’s hot stuff.

Your man might not be like this. A man you meet and date in college might not be like this. He may be a true-blue kind of man (Though with this Tiger Woods phenomenon, you wonder if it’s even possible to spot a true-blue man – I mean, who looked more true-blue from “here” than Tiger?)

And yet – the possibility exists that when circumstances CHANGE – everything changes. This is why it’s absolutely CRUCIAL to Circular Date. You should NEVER tie yourself down to one man EXCEPT for your own experience.

If you’re dating a really cool guy, and you’re learning a lot from the relationship, and you want to experiment with what a steady “boyfriend” feels like so you can be better prepared for marriage – then try it. But don’t expect it to last – in fact, I’d be very careful about that.

I would never, ever abandon Circular Dating – no matter how married you are!!! Without making contact, even momentarily, with men everywhere, you put yourself in a box. Your vibration gets smaller and smaller and you forget there’s a big world out there.

You shop at the same market, walk the same streets, exercise at the same place…and everything seems doomed when a relationship doesn’t go as far as you’d like.

Hoping that a relationship will work out forever is NOT a good reason to shut down your options.

So – to answer your question – there IS no way to “pace” this. You DATE him. That’s ALL. You date him, and you date other men, and…may the best man win!!!

Now – for the other part of your letter – Anna.  Him calling you a few times a week is not ANY kind of “relationship.”  It’s strictly a friendship.  It may be a worthwhile friendship – and it may develop into something else later, you never know, but for now – it’s not more than friendship.

That means you are not really even “dating” him right now.  So – please – Circular Date, let him stay in touch with you, and have as much fun as you possibly can without thinking of him for a moment.

If you’re hung up on him…that’s even more of a clue that you need to focus more on YOU, and on what YOU love, what you like, and that you need to Circular Date with tons of men so you can practice the Tools, lift your spirits, your self-esteem and your “vibe,” and have the relationship you want.

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1mary on December 22, 2009 at 6:33 pm

    Rori, I get really hung up with this circular dating. It’s not that easy for me. I feel like it’ll kill the guy I’m with if I tell him I’m gonna start seeing other men.

    I know that’s crazy, because he was seeing other women for a year and a half while I was at home, doing nothing but thinking about him. And I know how that sounds. It’s just my personal situation.

    I already gave him the speech. And he just started calling every day. Sort of sneaking up behind me and now it’s like we’re a couple. He got furious when I was dating the other guy, insisting that he never, ever would have done that to me. (I was JUST kissing a bit… no sex.) It makes sense to me.

    And now I might like to go out with this guy who’s getting divorced. It still could be months away that he comes to visit, but he will come. I’d like to at least see what it’s like to be with him.

    The speech again? Basically I’m not sure he can commit long term, even after we walk down the aisle. It seems like he’ll get antsy… and I just don’t want that. I’d love your suggestion about how to slow down the dating process. It seems like circular dating will speed it up.

  2.  #2mary on December 22, 2009 at 7:27 pm

    It sounds good. It sounds plausible, feasible, doable. But when I was trying to explain it to the guys, I found myself really floundering, because I kept seeing their points of view.

    Circular dating is something I’d like to do. It would put me back in charge, but… I’m almost there with R! I feel so caught because I don’t know if I can risk losing him. It’s like an engagement is just around the corner. It just feels scary to me, for him to come on so quickly, so fiercely, so strongly after being away. And somewhere in there, I’m curious about where he’s been, who he’s been seeing, etc., and I know it’s not my business. Something feels weird about it not being my business though.

    I’d love it if we were dating on a more casual basis, but if we were, I’d want more. I have more now, and what’s wrong? The time in between is what’s wrong. I can’t get over the wide gap there. Something is stopping me, telling me not to go further, when every time I’m with him, we have the greatest time, he’s a perfect gentleman, rowing the boat to perfection, to a surprise destination every time; I couldn’t ask for more.

    Could I?

  3.  #3mary on December 22, 2009 at 7:31 pm

    I feel like I need help here because I’m so confused. Is the answer there, inside me? How to get to it?

    From Nikita’s link:

    only then “was I able to see that the answers I had been looking for were the ones that dwelled inside of me. It was so clear to me that no matter how much I had loved the answers that were given to me, they were borrowed answers. It was not until I started experiencing my own responses and that often they contradicted what I believed, did I truly discover that I had my own truths and answers within.”

  4.  #4mary on December 22, 2009 at 7:33 pm

    My feelings are there with him. Happy. Pleased. Satisfied. Surprised. Thrilled. Ecstatic.

    It’s the reactions from OTHER PEOPLE that make me worry. My best friends, my family and sometimes even strangers… none are nodding their heads in support. Do I need that?

    I don’t know.

  5.  #5mary on December 22, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    From the post: “Hoping that a relationship will work out forever is NOT a good reason to shut down your options.

    So – to answer your question – there IS no way to “pace” this. You DATE him. That’s ALL. You date him, and you date other men, and…may the best man win!!!”

    Rori: I think that what Anna and I are worried about is losing the guy we’re dating at the moment. Does that risk not seem important?

  6.  #6Nikita on December 22, 2009 at 9:10 pm

    Oh Awesome!!!! Great timing!!!! I used to date a SUPER busy man………I haven’t read the post yet…but yayy!!!! I soooooooooooo need to know this 🙂

  7.  #7Robin on December 22, 2009 at 9:25 pm


    The outside pressures that come from our family and friends can often be a tough pill to swallow..

    They mean well, and they are looking out for you, and it certainly doesnt hurt to hear them out, but..

    It really comes down to what YOU are feeling.

    Ive often wondered about what would happen if my ex came back into the picture, my family and friends hate him so much that some have threatened bodily harm, they really just cant stand him..

    And yet, something in YOU is telling you know, so you want to listen to that voice and see if its a nasty voice, and need/desperation voice, or your actual inner voice

    The inner voice usually feels a little more grounded.

    Sink into your feelings and see if you can hear that inner voice,b/c its ultimately up to what YOU”RE feeling, and it doesnt matter what other people say or think (and I mean this from the perspective that they dont have to live your life, its your life and you want to be happy)

  8.  #8Nikita on December 22, 2009 at 9:27 pm


    that risk comes from fear……and perfect love casteth out fear 🙂

    and perfect love starts with you.

  9.  #9alias girl on December 22, 2009 at 9:28 pm

    i feel so great reading this post. rori i feel amazed and appreciative.

    i was in a relationship with a workaholic once. i wouldn’t choose that now. if a man starts listing off how busy he is i usually say “oh, it doesn’t really sound like you have time to date.” (no less make me your goddess, Dude.)

    i feel very happy feet today. i feel my cold is going away and my health is returning and i have ideas and i am just enjoying the season and i feel very appreciative and content. i feel very self caring.


  10.  #10Nikita on December 22, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    My ex ……. he’s so funny….. he says the silliest things sometimes….. silly ….. sigh…. I feel almost confused… but not quite 😉

  11.  #11alias girl on December 22, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    oh and i rented Julie and Julia and i can’t wait to watch it! I <3 meryl streep!

  12.  #12Sherry on December 22, 2009 at 9:37 pm

    Rori, I think this is a great post! It explains how we get in our own way by letting what we want cloud the reality of the situation.

    Mary, my thoughts while reading your comments:

    You said, “Something is stopping me, telling me not to go further…” I think that right there is the answer you have inside you’re looking for.

    You have fear about the “gap” and all that happened during that time. I think it is normal to want to know what went on during that period. Even if it is just curiosity. I get the feeling you are afraid it will happen again, and knowing the what and why of before could help. I feel that fear is what will stop you from Circular Dating. You are worried about losing the guy you are dating at the moment if you Circular Date, yet you already have a guy you are interested in dating? That part confused me. You say you’re not sure he can commit long term even after you walk down the aisle. Your trust is gone. How can you not fear the “what if’s” if you have no trust? We have to trust ourselves in these situations and listen to what our intuition is telling us.

    I am not Rori, nor am I an expert, but in your situation, I would take a step back. Slow down, circular date, and let the truth of this particular situation come to me. When I circular date, it takes the pressure off my “main” relationship and allows me to quit obcessing and see things more clearly. It gives the voices in my head something else to talk about lol. It also empowers me to realize there are many options out there and I don’t have to settle for anyone I have any doubts about. Right now, my interpretation is you have some doubts.

    Think of circular dating as taking time for you – away from the relationship. Doing something you are interested in that will give your heart and mind a break. It doesn’t have to be dating other men. Sometimes I go to the gym and work out (ok, so I flirt while I’m there too:), sometimes I allow myself to get lost in a book, or rent a movie, or have coffee with a friend, or see a show. There are tons of things you can do if you are uncomfortable dating other men. But, I would suggest adding a couple men to your rotation to help you see how someone outside of your situation acts with you. Also, this will allow you to feel what it is like to be with someone who doesn’t have you confused all the time.

    Mary, you are a Goddess!! Once you realize that the answers will be clear.

  13.  #13mary on December 22, 2009 at 9:37 pm


    I’m trying to understand what you’re saying – perfect love casteth out fear.

    The fear that I have is that I might lose this amazing guy who’s come back to me. I don’t know if I can trust him, but things seem different this time. He’s working with the parts of him that caused doubt before, and I’m not as insecure as I was then, because more time has passed since my husband left me.

    So what you’re saying is that if I had this perfect love (only love like that is from God), and it cast out the fear, I could risk losing him by circular dating?

    Or what… ???

  14.  #14Symantha on December 22, 2009 at 9:42 pm


    I can feel your frustration and been reading your story closely 😉 I got the same anxious/worry feelings because we WANT to hold on to the guy we are dating, the only way I got to understand it is getting Targeting program and Siren ones to take me by the hand as I started circular dating just after a broken engagement and is so empowering!!. i can’t quite explain the answers I got from the programs so go and get them and re-start your Circ Dating with all the tools at hand, is amazing how having all the facts can make the break trough for what is GOOD for us and getting our needs meet first before ‘investing’ in any man who doesn’t even know what he wants with us.

    I feel compassion as sometimes found myself in your feet.

  15.  #15mary on December 22, 2009 at 9:51 pm

    Wow, Sherry and Nikita, Thank you. I really appreciate your focus on this for me. What you said about the gap, Sherry, and about trust really came through in a way I could hear. I’m so INTO this guy. He has dominated my life, even while he wasn’t in it. I don’t want that any more. I want a relationship where I can join hands with someone and we can both go forward together, possibly be better together than if we both stayed alone.

    I’m enjoying his company. I love his presence. He’s amazing. But he keeps me off balance. Or let me say this a different way, here in Siren Island: I keep making decisions that make me feel like I’m not centered. I’m staying in a place that isn’t comfortable for me. I think you’re right! I don’t trust him any more.

    I don’t trust me any more.

  16.  #16mary on December 22, 2009 at 9:53 pm

    Thank you, Symi. I do have all the programs! and I’ve listened to them many times. Circular dating just seems unkind to me. It just seems a bit cruel and self-centered and selfish. Just thinking about ME, as if I was the only person in the world that existed. It’s contrary to my belief system. I don’t understand it, but I want to…

  17.  #17mary on December 22, 2009 at 9:57 pm

    I saw what it did to the three guys I was going out with: the ex-fiancee, the new guy, and the guy from my past (who was oblivious.) All the two guys did was talk about it, and it took all the fun out of dating for me. Made me seriously question myself and how I could do that to anyone else.

    Maybe it takes someone with a thicker skin to be okay with the bad feelings that are suddenly “all my fault?”

  18.  #18mary on December 22, 2009 at 9:59 pm

    He’s coming over tonight. I could say SOMETHING to him, but Christmas is just a few days away. His mother died on Christmas… I have no idea what to say! It’s like we’re not talking about this obvious thing that we don’t even know where we’re headed… but he’s making it clear that he’s not dating anyone else. And he thinks I’m not, either.

  19.  #19mary on December 22, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    Now I’M sorry for dominating. I think I just want something other than I have, or – like I said – I wouldn’t be on Siren Island talking about it.

    Oh, it’s too sad to think about.

  20.  #20mary on December 22, 2009 at 10:01 pm

    I’m gonna go study… I’ll read later! Thank you for thinking this through with me. Very, very painful…

  21.  #21alias girl on December 22, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    argh. i just talked to this guy. rgh. i was just trying to find a polite way to get off the phone. and while i was doing that he asked me if i was thin. i said i was normal. then he asked if i had a nice booty. and i felt like…

    you know…disgusted, i guess is the word. not just because of that but everything leading up to that and then while i am trying to find a polite way to end the convo he is thinking i am open to discussing my booty.

    before i answered his question, he said “because i like a nice round booty.”

    …and i almost just said bye right then and there. and i said ‘well um ok well hmm. i think i am going to go watch my movie.’

    and this was a guy I had initiated a phone call with.

    i feel very interested that i can NOT choose a man i am attracted to by his picture.

    it sooooooo much has to do with his personality and energy.

  22.  #22alias girl on December 22, 2009 at 10:20 pm

    rori’s programs are hardly valuable if one does not practice the tools and concepts.

    but if one does practice what rori is sharing, well in my experience, she has handed me the keys to the kingdom.

    thanks rori!!!

  23.  #23mary on December 22, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    and thank you Robin… and AG…

  24.  #24dorothea on December 23, 2009 at 2:23 am

    i feel guilty reading this because i am a righteously busy woman. i work in politics for something i really really really believe in.. and before this i took a double load of classes to get my degree in 4 yrs time. i tell men i’m busy and they think i’m trying to get away from them. I don’t want to have to coddle them and explain to them why i am so righteously busy..i want them to step up!

  25.  #25Daria on December 23, 2009 at 2:26 am

    I’m gonna quote a woman on the ‘Questions’ thread.

    We Circulate Date because:

    “Otherwise, you might fall into the Instant Relationship trap with this new guy and just become a monogamous serial dater that can’t learn to get past your triggers or work through intimacy issues.”

    Thank you.

    I love this. I feel delighted and strong and uumph and superior and guilty and teary eyed and squeezed and humiliated and afraid and embarassed and ashamed and little and hopeful and excited and eager and AShAMED AnD SCARED of feeling eager and ANGRY and defensive and alone and vengeful and plotting and evil and I LOVE My’sELF

  26.  #26Kaitlyn on December 23, 2009 at 2:39 am

    Rori, are you saying that I have to lower my standards to find love?

    I mean, since most righteously busy men are usually winners and guys with higher esteemed qualities.

  27.  #27Daria on December 23, 2009 at 2:48 am

    Kaitlyn –

    whoa i felt triggerd by your question cuz i can relate!

    but then i got a cool answer:

    no we HIGHER them. (our standards). We expect not ONLY a winner and higher quality but ALSO one who can and does relationship. with us. and is good at it. really good.

    yes yes.

    i like this. yo quiero.

  28.  #28Daria on December 23, 2009 at 2:53 am

    mmm i had sex with a guy who now became unavailable. but im interested in having sex once i get off my period.

    mmm ima sex freak. i always think about sex. yes.

    sex sex sex
    yo quiero lo mejor

    i want sex with him

    or someone that turns me on even more

    someone even “better”

    or him

    but i want to have it secured dammit

    wher is my sex!!

    i feel miffed that my sex is not dutifullly lined up for me when i get off my period

    i feel inadequate and terrified and horrified and i love myself

    and i also feel powerfully and delightfully miffed

    miff central

    wheres my fuckin sex


    i shouldnt be dealing with this

    im a loser

    i love myself

    i feel GROSS

    i love my gross feeling

    ufff im tired of this

    i love my tired icky feeling

    straight into the trigger huh


    i love my trigger

  29.  #29alias girl on December 23, 2009 at 2:55 am

    that’s interesting daria. before you saying that i would think it would be the other way around. that being in a “relationship” would teach me intimacy. but people get to a certain point and break up. and then meet someone else. go through the honeymoon phase, stick out til it becomes unbearable, then find someone else. etc.

    but with circular dating i am put in so many situations that i meet myself ALL THE TIME. I FEEL TRIGGERED A LOT. (although a lot less thankfully) and i share my feelings in situations of being highly triggered, good or bad. and that IS intimacy. right there.

    in a psuedo relationship / insta-relationship there is probably a tendency not to share the icky feelings because people don’t want to risk losing the other person or feeling uncomfortable. so intimacy gets thrown out the window.

    what do you think?

  30.  #30Daria on December 23, 2009 at 3:03 am

    I think you rock like creme brulee.

  31.  #31alias girl on December 23, 2009 at 3:11 am

    <3 4u 🙂

    i've never had creme brulee. but i would like to have a taste of my sex drive back. i feel good to read of yours.

  32.  #32alias girl on December 23, 2009 at 4:46 am

    i feel confused how i am supposed to be authentic and honestly expressing feeling messages with men i don’t feel attracted to and men i don’t feel comfortable having them trying to get at me. rori says it’s because i don’t want to say no.

    i don’t have a problem telling a man no. but it does feel bad to teel aa man no after i feel i have led him on.

    so this is why i haven’t been on many dates. because me feelings are

    i do not feel attratced to you. i don’t want you to make a move on me. i just want us to get to know each other. i want to practice receiving in my life.

    can i say this to men who are asking me out? how many would really want to take me out after hearing that? and then after the date i could say hm no well i still don’t feel attracted to you thanks for dinner. see you soon. ???

    i feel confused. i feel guilty using people which is essentially what i feel i am doing if i don’t feel attracted to them yet during the date i am friendly and open and it is all under the pretense that he thinks i am interested in him too. no wonder i would feel awkward

    so yae! this is good that i have put words to this but i donlt feel confident of a solution yet.

  33.  #33Flipper on December 23, 2009 at 5:16 am

    I feel I don’t need to tell a guy I’m circular dating (unless we have a FORMAL exclusivity agreement). It’s just my business. And I don’t want to discuss the CONCEPT with him either, as if this were still up for debate, or I needed his approval, or influencing this personal choice of how to get my life’s needs met was someone else’s responsibility or privilege. What he doesn’t know won’t hurt him and I feel sure he actually doesn’t want to have to think about these things in any detail (ever noticed how “is the other guy better (in bed), ‘bigger’, richer than me?” seem to be their principle preoccupations and not “what are my girl’s needs and how come she likes getting them met, even if I don’t meet them?”) .

    But I want him to feel that I won’t be available (because I am authentically busy seeing to my needs (WHICH OF COURSE INCLUDE HIGH QUALITY AND QUANTITY MASCULINE ATTENTION) in ANY WAY I DEEM BEST), so that he feels the necessity of deciding if he wants my availability enough to consecrate

  34.  #34Flipper on December 23, 2009 at 5:32 am

    ..oops……HIMSELF 100% to meeting those needs. Deciding and ACTING on that. And PERSISTING in the face of hesitation or even No. There’s always baggage to get rid of before we Can Feel Good Saying yes. (Haven’t they already dumped us, drifted away or cheated, triggering not only our feelings about them but memories of similar past situations, reinforcing our wariness?). And they have to handle that by Proving they can. Remember Mercedes’ and Tinque’s stories. Their men screwed up, sometimes big time, and those ladies were outta there, refused contact or giving more chances. But those SHOWED they were for real, by DOING, over time, in the face of adversity.

  35.  #35Flipper on December 23, 2009 at 5:35 am

    ….those Guys SHOWED they were for real…..

  36.  #36TW on December 23, 2009 at 7:51 am

    Hi guys.. It has been a long time since I post. I started dating a new guy in October and everything was perfect. He was attentive, wanted to see me all the time, we talked openly and wanted the same things out of life. He works a lot and has children and I have children as well and then I went out of town for a while for work and then he was different when I got back. He had a lot going on but he was always so open with me about everything. While I was gone he was calling and texting like normal and then he just fell off the map. He rarely calls or text and when he had some time off he said he would come and see me and he did not show nor call. Now he said prior to my leaving that he was serious abut our relationship and that he was ready to meet the family and stuff so I was like ok. Now, after all of this he just seems to be drifting away and I do not know how to turn this around with him. The last time we talked was over the weekend and since I have not called or contacted him in any way. Two days have passed and nothing but I am holding strong and I am okay you know… I asked him if he just thought it was best if we ended the realtionship and he said no that he wanted to continue. Why would you want to continue a relationship with someone that you pay not attention to… I do not get it and I do not get him. He says that we were so bogged down that maybe this is God’s way of allowing us time to focus on ourselves. I have no clue… I do not want to give up on him but then again is there anything left for me to do… Am I doing the right thing by not contacting him and telling him how I feel…

  37.  #37Angeline on December 23, 2009 at 8:17 am

    TW… I would wait until he figures himself out. Wait for him to initiate a conversation about the relationship. In the meantime, take care of yourself! Do all the things that make you feel beautiful and desirable. Stop trying to “get him”, that’s kind of like doing his emotional work for him, and that just doesn’t work. If he wants you to “get him” he’ll explain himself to you.

    To all the sirens, I’m confused about what Rori says about not even *thinking* about a man. What if it feels good to think about a man? Even if he’s not calling or doesn’t seem interested? I just like thinking about him because it makes me feel warm.

    It seems like Rori’s saying that men can energetically sense that we’re thinking about them, and it makes them feel pressured and turned off. Does anyone have any experiences with this? I feel angry that I would have to edit my thoughts. It makes me feel powerless and like I have to treat a man like a delicate, unpredictable flower. And I want to be the delicate flower!

    Any man who can’t handle the energetic pressure of me *thinking* about him is probably not worth it, right? And as long as I don’t get all miserable and obsessed, as long as it always feels good, then why not think about him?

  38.  #38TW on December 23, 2009 at 8:27 am


    He has said that he does not want to leave the relationship but seems to not be making an effort to stay in it either. What do I do about that you know? He was so attentive in the beginning and now it is like I am just here you know.. There is no effort on his part. I am unsure if I need to stay or go. I just feel like if I am interested in that person then I would contact them you know. He was the one that initiated the call when I talked to him last but I just can not pick up my phone and dial his number. I erased everything our of my phone that he sent me like text and pictures and stuff. I just did not want to look at it at that point in time.

  39.  #39Linda on December 23, 2009 at 8:28 am

    I like this post.

    Flipper, I agree with you. I dont feel that I need to explain myself or my dating prinicples or ideas.

    We all want a man to show us over time he is REAL. That is the only thing that we can “take to the bank” as my dad used to say.

    A man calling once in a while is not ANY kind of relationship… (friendship maybe a worthwhile one). SOOOO RIGHT! Maybe it will develop in to something later, so if you feel like it invest minimal energy into it. If not dont. What I get angry at is the men that come on all hot an heavy pursuing and then… wanna move to the infrequent contact mode. (Friend ville) LOL Get my energy out of there. Call it what it is.

    One BIG favor I am doing for myself from this point on… KEEPING IT REAL. No imaginary relationship stuff. THis is how I plan to love myself and keep my heart and soul uncluttered and simple.

    I dont feel desperate or have an appetite for “crumbs” anymore. I want a full meal and one to consume daily, not once in a while.


  40.  #40Nikita on December 23, 2009 at 8:33 am


    HAHAHA -I am so with you on your question, most busy guys are winners-successful, and can easily pay a mortgage 😉 easily. I like those guys…a lot. I’ve been super busy in the past and I’d like to believe that someone would still hang in there with me.

  41.  #41Nikita on December 23, 2009 at 8:36 am

    I’m the delicate unpredictable flower !!!!!!!

  42.  #42Angeline on December 23, 2009 at 8:40 am


    Rori has a lot of great posts about this type of situation. I’m pretty sure she would tell you to start circular dating right away. It sounds like this guy’s not giving you what you need/want.

  43.  #43TW on December 23, 2009 at 8:40 am

    Right on Linda!!!

  44.  #44TW on December 23, 2009 at 8:44 am


    Right now he is not but before I had it all and then we both got all busy and stuff and that is definitely not an excuse because if I WANT to do something then I can make time to do that but if not then that I don’t simply because I do not want to. Period!! That is how I take him… I feel as though he does not want to see me… Yes business has picked up and he rarely has time off now with it being the holiday season and all and I know he is tired but why on his time when he is on day shift can he not say well I am really tired but I am going to spend the night with you just to have some time together you know. That is what I do not get… I feel like I need to be shown rather than told that he wants to continue the relationship.

  45.  #45Nikita on December 23, 2009 at 8:58 am

    Two days is nothing to me…….two weeks…well that’s the END….but no need to do something …… why on earth would my happiness be dependent upon a daily phone call from a man I’ve known for 5% of my life???

    I have a guy calling me multiple times a day-at first daily- yawn……give me room to reflect and miss you….geez….now I have to listen to ALL these voicemails…..shit -I’m busy. I like you but it’s the holidays and my focus is on my family and long time friends right now…..I need space…mental and emotional space to ruminate about what I want for myself next year……let me breathe without feeling guilty and responsible for another’s feelings….

    feel me?

  46.  #46mary on December 23, 2009 at 9:32 am

    wow, this is all so interesting.

    alias girl: i went to a divorce recovery program called REBUILDERS, and they suggested that we get back out into society and practice making GROWING RELATIONSHIPS. we were to be in contact with the opposite sex, and on the first outing, tell them that we’re just out of a relationship, that we’re working on ourselves and that we’re interested in spending time with the opposite sex. we were also supposed to tell them that these relationships usually do not go long term. and then tell them of our interest in them and ask them if they would be up for spending some time like that. sort of a friends only thing… a curiosity thing… and then leave a caveat in there for if things do happen to miraculously work out.

  47.  #47mary on December 23, 2009 at 9:33 am

    daria: i really liked your quote! thank you for looking for that. where did you find it?

  48.  #48mary on December 23, 2009 at 9:35 am

    flipper: that competition you were speaking of is exactly what i encountered!

    my plan was to get my studying finished, THEN start dating, but in the casual way i mentioned above, and start figuring out what i like, don’t like, etc., so i can make a better choice for me. circular date the rori way, but not tell them, like you’re talking about, flipper!

  49.  #49mary on December 23, 2009 at 9:39 am

    when I was just out of the divorce, after the Rebuilder’s program, I did try some growing relationships. I was online, and I was in a dating club, and I was meeting lots of guys.

    When I told them what I was doing, I saw them ALL visibly relax. Friends for a while? YES! They were excited and relieved that spending time with their person was more important to me than spending time with their body.

    I made a lot of friends that way. Certain relationships – R – started spiking up and refused to be “just friends,” and that was exciting and amazing.

    It was a good scenario, and that was what I was hoping for.

    I can still do it. Thank you.

  50.  #50TW on December 23, 2009 at 10:21 am

    nikita…. I feel ya… I just need to find something to do to take my focus off tthe subject and him ya know…

  51.  #51Simply Shannon on December 23, 2009 at 10:32 am

    Daria: “I think you rock like creme brulee.” LOL!! I love crème brulee. 🙂
    AG: “i do not feel attratced to you. i don’t want you to make a move on me. i just want us to get to know each other. i want to practice receiving in my life.”
    When I read this, I feel disconnected and bummed. For me, a date is just time spent together. That’s it. Being warm and open doesn’t have to translate to kissing or touching or sex. It’s just being a girl. A girl doesn’t owe a boy anything. And if the issue is that he’s paying, maybe this is just a trigger? A feeling of unworthiness? I feel curious to hear your reasons for believing you are leading a man on.
    SS Translation: I feel curious. It would feel good to get to know you. (Note: In the background, I feel strong in my boundaries of what I will and will not accept. If a man goes to make a move on me, I can smile and say “I don’t feel ready for that yet.”)
    That man sitting in front of me could be the next Gandhi or something. Maybe someone I’m not physically attracted to but what a blessing for ME to receive time with someone that interesting.
    I just experienced this last night. The guy I went out with had the most interesting life. He told me stories all night. It felt good. I didn’t feel super connected to him (would have felt better if he was a little more curious about me) but as first dates go, it felt good and I feel open to going out with him again. I did feel a few pangs of “unworthiness” when he was ordering all this sushi we were eating but it was his choice. I let him choose everything. I showed him a few things I liked (two of which he picked) but really left it up to him. And I didn’t feel guilty when he got the bill. I didn’t lead him on. I listened to him and asked him the things I was curious about in the moment. It felt good. I felt very girl with him. And he felt like a super sweet, stylish man. I felt intrigued. And the fact is I may never talk to him again. It was just a date. Not a marriage proposal (ala Mercedes) :-).

  52.  #52Nikita on December 23, 2009 at 10:35 am


    interesting….I was dating a man…..and then he expressed his head wasn’t into it right now….cuz…blah, blah, blah(really good reasons honestly) and I just assumed-yeah, whatever you just don’t want ME……but……he’s got the best reason ever…..timing is important….so now…he wants to be friends….uh……um…..I don’t know how I feel about that….I do see the benefit…but ……friends? after dating?…..friends? I feel conflicted…..he clarified…not fwb…..but friends…he likes me, respects me, and has learned a lot from me…….so he says…..but I feel skeptical…….friends? really? I asked if this is what he does…and he said no…..usually I can’t be friends with someone I was intimate with but I really want to be your friend….I don’t want anything right now but I’d like to be your friend…..I know it’s dangerous territory when you have chemistry with a person and you might go drinking and fall into bed together…so yeah I know it’s difficult but I like you and I hope we can have a friendship………

    huh? I feel very conflicted….I’m very attracted to him….most of the chemistry isn’t there until we get into bed…..which I recently refused…sigh…so hard…so hard….he apologised and gave me his speech later…after he saw had boundaries….I felt I had to say no…..I don’t need a relationship but I don’t fuck my friends……he learned that firsthand…..and now he’s sticking to his friends thing… I’m capable of shifting (and since I planned on cloistering myself for a few months anyway) but……..I feel concerned about going from friends to lovers again…..I feel open to dating him again…in the future………but do I say no to friendship? just because?

    whatever….Mary can you expound a bit on these post-divorce( aka trauma 😉 ) friends who are “dating” theories??

  53.  #53Nikita on December 23, 2009 at 10:39 am


    maybe you could go back to Rori’s book-and start from scratch-revising your dream relationship for 2010. Get clear and write down what you would have IN A PERFECT WORLD -no holds barred. Shoot for the stars hit the moon kind of thing 😉

    and take yourself for hot-chocolate……watch people…observe couples shopping….notice what feels warm to you and notice what feels good…….and smile… everyone…while musing about your dream relationship- INSTEAD of the dream guy

  54.  #54TW on December 23, 2009 at 10:42 am


    That makes perfect sense. I do feel like he is going to contact me at some point but until then I have things to do you know. I am going to be kidless next week so the sky is the limit on activities.

  55.  #55Simply Shannon on December 23, 2009 at 10:47 am

    Comments on Circular Dating…

    I used to feel like so many of you do. I felt completely resistant to the idea. I had all these questions. And then I just stopped fighting it and did it.

    When you circular date…
    1. it’s about finding yourself, not a man.
    2. it feels freeing, like you literally took the pressure off of all relationships.
    3. it can feel stressful at times if you’re dating a lot, but that’s usually a clue that you’re not paying attention to your own needs. Instead you’re paying attention to all these boys clammering for your time. They can wait. 😉
    4. If a man does not want you to circular date, he will take you off the market. Period. Of course a guy doesn’t want you to date other people. DUH. That would be “difficult” and might mean he has to actually work to have you in his life. Oh darn.
    5. It sifts the deadbeat guys off your circuit. Refer to #4.
    6. It forces a guy to face his own insecurities. If a man has a problem with you dating other people, he must not think he’s that great himself. Otherwise he wouldn’t be worried, right?
    7. Circular dating gives us girls confidence because we aren’t worried. We see this river of men and we KNOW any one of them could be the one. We get to choose.
    8. Circular dating forces you to slow things down. I don’t get blown over by chemistry now. Sure there are guys who I feel turned on by but I’m not being led by that because odds are pretty good I’ve already got a date lined up for the next time with another guy. It’s hard to get blown away by one date with a guy if he’s just one on the list.

    If a man is not stepping up to marry you, why be afraid to date others? I mean, really… what is there to lose? A guy who doesn’t want to step up? A guy I’m not sure I can trust because of our history? That’s choosing to put my life on hold out of fear. The hours / days / years are just flying by and we’re waiting? For what?

    I feel compassion for men but I don’t want to feel scared. I want to feel certain. And so for now, it feels good to keep my options open. What do you think?

  56.  #56Nikita on December 23, 2009 at 10:50 am

    aha!!!!!! TW ….

    maybe your feelings are connected to being ALONE, period……ya know? sigh, the kids are gone…I feel so free….where is that guy I have this great connection with?….I have free time….it would feel so good to fill it up with him…..and make a fairytale instead of being all alone …with my soup 🙂

    You may not even be craving him as much if the circumstances were different and you were not “kidless” this week ……it’s ok TW…… 😉

    I feel good noticing the sometimes tangles we have with our feelings……..I’d go out and flirt- HARD without the kids…..and clean the house in high-heels and go out in rd-lipstick with mittens and hot-chocolate…smiling,smiling, smiling!!!!

  57.  #57Nikita on December 23, 2009 at 10:53 am


    great way to better explain what I meant by “perfect love casteth out fear ”

    I love your writing-all the GOOD stuff 😉

  58.  #58TW on December 23, 2009 at 10:57 am


    That sounds like fun. When I first met him we both agreed not to see other people because that is what we were looking for and that we did not want a boyfriend/girlfriend type situation to last long because we were both seeking marriage. He does not want to leave the relationship but is showing me that he does not want to stay either. What is up with that?

  59.  #59mary on December 23, 2009 at 10:59 am


    My dilemma is that my man IS stepping up. He DOES want to marry me. He DOES want to take me off the market.

    But… we were engaged before, and he’s just come back into my life. His pattern is hot and cold and hot and cold, and just because he’s hot now, I’m skeptical.

    I was “circular dating,” not by design, but because that’s what happened, and it worked. I got him back.

    I could have the ring on my finger, but would I feel happy about it? NOT YET. So Rori’s advice is to keep circular dating. Really? When he’s professed his love to me and asked me for my hand? Isn’t that a bit of a slap on the face for me to say, “I’m just gonna keep my options open for now?”

  60.  #60mary on December 23, 2009 at 11:00 am

    I mean, I could do it… and a “good man” would weather through it, but everyone has their limits. I’m afraid I might be pushing this guy’s limits to get out there as if he’s just one of many. He told me he doesn’t want to be on my “kissing team.”

  61.  #61mary on December 23, 2009 at 11:03 am

    There are posts referring to “slowing things down” with circular dating, but it is speeding things up for me. Circular dating has pushed R into the position where I wanted him, but I’m not ready yet!

    What to say? What to do? How to backtrack from here? He’s down on one knee.

  62.  #62mary on December 23, 2009 at 11:06 am

    I would be ready if we hadn’t already been engaged, and done the hot and cold thing. I just want to give it some time before I decide. See if he can keep wanting me if he has me? For me, the big question is not how to GET the man, but how to KEEP the man, after commitment.

    It seems like it’s about the quality of the man, and less about what I’m doing or not doing, or feeling or not feeling, or communicating or not communicating. It’s more about his level of commitment, and what his word means to him…

    in my opinion…

  63.  #63Nikita on December 23, 2009 at 11:11 am


    obsession alert!!!!!

    I mean that playfully…..YEILD……

    You most likely agreed not to SLEEP with other people……as long as your eyesight works…,it is impossible to not SEE OTHER PEOPLE….. 😉

    do you see where I’m going with this???

    as far as what his stuff is;

    you write: ” He does not want to leave the relationship but is showing me that he does not want to stay either. What is up with that? ”

    NO….how has he SHOWN you that? Did he pack up and leave town? Did he marry someone else ? …..
    that is your interpretation of his intentions….your perception…not fact…..TWO DAYS??????
    I feel tension building……go let off some steam….get some hot-chocolate and flirt with the counter person….girl or boy…just FLIRT ….get your juices flowing….. all he showed you is he hasn’t spoken to you on the phone for two days….that does not equate to….him not being involved anymore……it shows… dear TW that you don’t want to stay if he hasn’t spoken to you for 2 days……

    BUT…….this is a could proof of the value of circular dating……did you read the e-letter today? It mention dating yourself….when was the last time you took yourself out on a date????? and didn’t depend solely on him for “dates”?……go have fun!!!!!! even if you bitch and moan the whole way through it!!! have some dag on FUN.


  64.  #64Nikita on December 23, 2009 at 11:12 am

    BUT…….this is a could proof of the value of circular

    SIGH– I mean a good proof/example 😉

    what is with my typing today????


  65.  #65mary on December 23, 2009 at 11:13 am

    okay, one more thing…

    I’m trying to decide whether or not to circular date in this scenario.

    If I do circular date, I keep interest, risk losing him and get a lot of attention, therapy, good feelings about me, etc. I HAVE READ THE LITERATURE, AND I GET THAT! (Oops! some anger there!) If I lose him, what if I look back and think, “Wow. I missed out on my golden opportunity with R?”

    If I don’t circular date, and I go ahead and get engaged, I risk keeping him and not knowing if he can stay in a marriage long term. (The circular dating pushed the envelope in that case, and I have what I want, at least temporarily. The trouble is, I want what I want, and that is one man for the rest of my life.)

  66.  #66Nikita on December 23, 2009 at 11:17 am


    So tell him that’s why you have to date…….get a marriage license…….wait on the ceremony…….

    professing love is not the same as showing up on the day.

    I’ve heard of women who date even engaged……just in case he gets cold feet…she has a date lined up for Saturday night….extreme?….yes……Smart? ….probably.

  67.  #67Nikita on December 23, 2009 at 11:21 am


    you don’t sound ready. at all. to marry anyone. If you can’t do it tomorrow at city hall-then YOU JUST AREN’t ready.

    I love my not ready feelings 😉

    I love my unsure exploring hoping for a miracle heart 😉

    I love my fear and trust issue feelings….I love my skepticism 🙂

    I love my not-knowing for sure R is the one….still hoping the divorced one comes around so I can get more data feelings 🙂

  68.  #68mary on December 23, 2009 at 11:25 am

    I love my not ready feelings 🙂

    I love my unsure exploring hoping for a miracle heart 🙂

    I love my fear and trust issue feelings….I love my skepticism 🙂

    I love my not-knowing for sure R is the one….still hoping the divorced one comes around so I can get more data feelings 🙂

  69.  #69mary on December 23, 2009 at 11:26 am

    this one in particular:

    I love my unsure exploring hoping for a miracle heart 🙂

    thanks nikita; this is helping

  70.  #70Nikita on December 23, 2009 at 11:27 am

    See how BUSY I AM 😉 lol…..sooooo busy …..

    now I’m going downstairs to play in my instant gratification city!!!! I feel hungry….going to put on some red lipstick and have an impromptu date at the market…..and smile at ALL the boys….even the gay ones!!!!

    maybe I’ll have some hot-chocolate instead of coffee 😉

  71.  #71Nikita on December 23, 2009 at 11:28 am


    yayy!!! a mantra 😉

    kisses- red-kisses all for lovely sweet studying mary 😉


  72.  #72Simply Shannon on December 23, 2009 at 11:29 am

    Mary, You already wrote your speech: “I would be ready if we hadn’t already been engaged, and done the hot and cold thing. I just want to give it some time before I decide.”

    And maybe add “I want to feel certain and trusting of the man I marry. I want the long term, not the hot / cold. I feel open to getting to know you again. I feel curious about what has changed about us since we’ve spent time apart.”

    So your choices are: Be afraid now when you haven’t tied your life to any one man or be afraid later because you said yes when you really weren’t sure. Personally i don’t want to live in fear, always wondering when the other shoe will drop. I want to get to know the man I’m with and feel certain. Sure, everything is a risk and anything can happen, but if I go into with fear, that feels like adding dirt to the cake before I even bake it.

  73.  #73mary on December 23, 2009 at 11:38 am

    WOW! I SEE IT!

    thank you! you’re right. i’d just be trading one risk for the other, and better to do it now. i didn’t see it that way, but now I do!

    okay. i’m gonna do it. i’m gonna give him the speech, the day after Christmas. and then i’m just gonna relax, study and do whatever.

    now I’m gonna go buy some red lipstick. =) get some hot chocolate. =) flirt while i study…

  74.  #74mary on December 23, 2009 at 11:41 am

    this is great. i feel encouraged. i feel excited. i feel sad. i feel resolved.


    that is so huge!

  75.  #75laughing goddess on December 23, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    Angeline: I feel curious as well about your question regarding thinking about a man. My opinion is that if thinking about him truly feels warm and fuzzy then it’s okay. But if thinking about him brings up feelings of worry, fear, etc. then it’s better to just put him out of our minds. Abraham hicks suggests this approach in regard to anything we want.

    Typing on iPhone so I can’t really elaborate right now but I’m curious to hear your opinions on this.

  76.  #76laughing goddess on December 23, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    congratulations Mary. Looking at it from the perspective of trading one risk for the other feels wise to me. I would feel safer risking losing someone by keeping my options open and circular dating vs. Marrying someone I feel unsure about.

  77.  #77mary on December 23, 2009 at 12:32 pm

    thanks LG for texting that on your iPhone.

    I love my hoping for a miracle feelings.

    Nikita – circular Dating – not Just Friends. I like it.
    Alias Girl – your process inspires me and appeals to my adventurous side
    Simply Shannon – you’re right. we don’t have to discuss or explain circular dating to anyone!

  78.  #78dorothea on December 23, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    i feel so special today….everyone has texted me and called me to tell me happy birthday. no one ever remembers my birthday. this feels amazing. i googled myself and saw all that i accomplished in 25 years. i feel like superwoman. like a secret superhero that no one knows about. my unsuspecting neighbors have no idea that a superhero lives next to them.

  79.  #79TW on December 23, 2009 at 1:01 pm


    Girl you are so right but I have not seen him either and it has been like three weeks and in the beginning we went no more than 2 days without seeing each other unless he was on night shift.

  80.  #80Nikita on December 23, 2009 at 1:32 pm


    oh…3 weeks……..start dating. 😉 seems he fell asleep at the wheel………wake him up..

  81.  #81TW on December 23, 2009 at 1:40 pm


    Yeah.. One of those weeks I was gone for work but other than that I have been around. I have been hanging out with one of my exes a little bit and that is keeping my mind off things.

  82.  #82laughing goddess on December 23, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    Circular dating rocks!!!! Perfect for getting the mind off of someone who isn’t showing up. I love it!

  83.  #83dorothea on December 23, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    i love circular dating but hate how it makes everyone step up and then i’m like NO GIRLFRIEND AHHHH. The no girlfriend speech feels awkward for me still. I guess I just havent met the right guy in the right situation who has stepped up. Which is great because all this practice feels good!

  84.  #84Daria on December 23, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    im gonna embrace my dark side by smoking! im smoking for healing! dammit mutherfucker!!!


    rock on bang headed Goddess

  85.  #85dorothea on December 23, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    ooooh snap someone from the flower delivery service just called to make sure i’m home i wonder who sent me flowers weeee i feel excited and terrified.

  86.  #86Nikita on December 23, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    Happy Birthday Dorothea 🙂

    from me and ALL THE SIRENS ON THE ISLAND 😉


  87.  #87dorothea on December 23, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    Thank you this feels like the best birthday ever I can’t believe it.

  88.  #88alias girl on December 23, 2009 at 4:17 pm

    daria thank you for the creme brulee reference. 🙂 smoke up if you must.

    flipper thank you for your response to my current roadblock. i felt thrilled to actually put words to it and feel very hungry and pleased for your response.

    this is a huge trigger for me. simply shannon you hit it on the head. it’s totally the money. i feel guilty for them spending their money. it doesn’t even make logical sense. it’s just money. it’s going to be spent somewhere. i feel undeserving. i feel uncomfortable. i feel undeserving. my parents hated spending money on me. most of my boyfriends have either been poor or didn’t ENJOY spending money on me. it was like a chore or obligation.

    it’s about THE MONEY.

    well somewhat because also i don’t seem to even get to a coffee date with mist guys from online. i am most successful when i just happen to meet a guy when i am out and about and he tags along and i can practice with him but then i can leave whenever i want.

    what is it about?


    i could leave whenever i wanted if it was a set date also.

    what is my resistance about?

    now i feel like i’ve rejected most of the men on my dating site before ever even getting to actually dating anybody. 🙁

    some guy just TEXTING today and i feel like ugh. why is he TEXTING! trigger! and he’s too young! trigger! and he lives with his mother! trigger! how am i supposed to move forward in some of these situations with any degree of authenticity?

    mary i liked what you shared about your post divorce dating suggestions. that was helpful. how in the heck am i going to move through my crapola and finally strat to receive and get my needs met.


    i feel starved for affection. i don’t know how to receive. i feel unworthy. bah. i love my starved self. i love my feelings of unworthiness. i love my pouty face. i love my restricted diet of crumbs. rrr. i feel clueless and repulsed. i love my repulsion.

  89.  #89alias girl on December 23, 2009 at 4:43 pm

    ah i just read your thoughts on circular dating simply shannon. i felt GREAT and inspired reading them. ( i am slowly getting through all these comments.)

  90.  #90alias girl on December 23, 2009 at 4:45 pm

    oh a “kissing team”! That’s what i want! hehe

  91.  #91dorothea on December 23, 2009 at 4:48 pm

    alias girl i feel angry! you deserve way more than crumbs you’re clearly a rockin chick! don’t you come down from that pedestal, lady!

  92.  #92alias girl on December 23, 2009 at 4:50 pm

    YES MARY!!!!! YES!!!! AH YES!!!!! that feels great and liberating. ahhhhhhhhhhhh

  93.  #93alias girl on December 23, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    happy birthday dorothea!!!!!!! i feel so cheery hearing of all your peeps contacting you with well wishes! and FLOWERS!!!! I LOVE FLOWERS!!!!! HAPPY BIRTHDAY CHICKADEE!!!!

  94.  #94dorothea on December 23, 2009 at 5:25 pm

    hell yeah today is so wtf like a christmas miracle movie…like the flowers surprisingly come and as i’m setting them up the phone rings and it’s my long lost estranged best friend who sucked up her pride to tell me she loves me and happy birthday. i feel shocked and delighted.

  95.  #95Lisa on December 23, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    I’m really enjoying this thread over Mary, so thanks, Mary 🙂

    Such a lot of wisdom and common sense, and discovery. Doing it in a community is amazing — I feel a lot of support here.

    Alias Girl,

    Your last graph resonates with me:

    “i feel starved for affection. i don’t know how to receive. i feel unworthy. … i feel clueless and repulsed. i love my repulsion”

    Today I was considering how I’ve changed being with a cold and withholding man these past 7 years. When I am with a guy who says sweet things, I think he is being insincere 🙁 I need to learn to take the kind things and bathe myself in them. Like Rori’s painting yourself with love tool. I want to heal my defensive, dis-trusting self.

    I had so acclimated myself to a guy who would just walk right past me when he entered, and hop right out of bed in the a.m. without so much as a “hello”, that it feels weird to be on the receiving end of affection/attention.

    This is a new adventure.

  96.  #96alias girl on December 23, 2009 at 6:03 pm

    haha dorothea i feel i am secretly celebrating vicariously with you!!! how exciting! what a great birthday! i feel awesome that you are able to BE in it and savor and delight in it!

    Lisa – yae to new adventures!

    and regarding rori’s article. unavaiable is unavailable is unavailable no matter if the reason is a psycho ex girlfriend/wife, a current girlfriend/wife, an addiction problem, or being “too busy”.

    just because a large segment of our society rewards “productivity” and accolades and runs fearfully from intimacy and building/sustaining healthy meaningful relations….

    unavailable is unavailable is unavailable
    if a man is not in front of me, he doesn’t exist for me

    no waiting, no way

    “wow you sure do sound busy. i feel good to date men who have time to date me and devote to us getting to know each other.”

  97.  #97mary on December 23, 2009 at 6:50 pm

    happy birthday dorothea!

  98.  #98mary on December 23, 2009 at 6:51 pm

    alias girl: thanks for the hoorah. i kinda needed that from you. : )

    i’m still okay today! still resolved!

    i love my resolve.

    thank you, sirenaders

  99.  #99mary on December 23, 2009 at 6:52 pm

    thank you tinque!

    : )

    still reading your amazing book!

  100.  #100laughing goddess on December 23, 2009 at 7:28 pm

    Happy birthday Dorothea!

  101.  #101mary on December 23, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    I love my unsure exploring hoping for a miracle heart.

  102.  #102Simply Shannon on December 23, 2009 at 10:34 pm

    AG: You are soooo worthy. You inspire me. I would buy you coffee every day just to be able to have a conversation with you and hear your stories. I feel so curious about the inner workings of your mind. I imagine any guy would love to have that chance. I think sometimes maybe we twist it around in our minds that guys only want one thing and we owe it to them when they spend money on us… but maybe they are just like us… starved for affection and attention. That my dear is PRICELESS. And we can offer that to them for FREE just by being a girl. Why must we feel like we gave nothing just because we didn’t pay? I still struggle with this one myself but I’m starting to “get” that my time and my presence is a treasure all on its own.

    Dorothea: Happy birthday Super Woman!! I feel excited to hear about all of your birthday wishes today. I hope you decided to take the invisible plane out for a spin!

    Tonight has been a fabulous night. I went to church for the Christmas service, and a girlfriend from work went with me. Her comment afterwards: “I felt like the pastor was talking right to me. I literally had to stop looking because I thought he was looking right at me.” SHIVERS!!! And she’s going to start going to church with me. YES!!! I got to be a messenger today!!! Someone gave me that great gift 8 weeks ago (a boy no less!) and I just gave that gift myself. I cannot tell you how that made my night. All I did was invite her to go with me. No intentions, just felt compelled to ask her. Maybe her coming tonight will cause a great big ripple in her life. Who knows. I sure do feel curious to see her story unfold. Mr. Super Kisser was there too with some of his friends. We sat with them, and I didn’t feel weird about it. He was really sweet, and it just felt good to be there with both of them.

    And then… Mr. Manly Man came over after church. (Yes, I am circular dating up a storm tonight! Haha!) I started telling him how I got saved on Sunday. Here’s the real kicker… He got saved the Sunday prior. I felt SHOCKED. He’s been going to church all this time and I NEVER expected him to say that. We both got saved within a week of each other. WHAT??? It was like being shown the other side of the coin and having no idea that side was different. We really talked, and it felt good. I could feel how relaxed he was. I don’t know if we’ll still run into the same issues as before (the hot/cold, controlling, I-don’t-want-you-to-circular-date thing) but I feel open to seeing him. It just felt good to see him tonight and to hear we’re both on this same path.

    Tonight has been a night of discovery. I felt suprised and elated and curious throughout the night. Amazing. Simply amazing.

    Good night sweet Sirens! Shannon

  103.  #103alias girl on December 23, 2009 at 11:28 pm

    WOW!!! simply shannon i feel AMAZED. what an amazing freaking night. oh my goodness. wowzers! wow. i feel inspired by you as well!

    and thank you for the kind words. i feel touched. and a little shy. 🙂

    i went to church tonight also. and some guy who had asked me out months ago that i had blown off but we have since always chatted and said hello. well he was hugging me tonight. it’s funny, i felt like he couldn’t stop hugging on me. i said, “i’m sick” to him. because i have a cold. he said “i don’t care”
    i said, “haha you’ll care when you get sick!”

    but he kept hugging me anyway any chance he got.

    i feel good to be so hugged. 🙂 also we get along pretty well so maybe we will go out sometime. now that i am working on my new perspective around all that.

  104.  #104Simply Shannon on December 24, 2009 at 6:57 am

    AG: Yeah!!! You sent out a request to the universe and God for some affection and you got it! I LOVE that!!! Here’s me sending you some more hugs lovely lady. (((HUGS))) Gosh that feels so good to read this morning!

    Merry Christmas my beautiful Sirens! May you all be blessed beyond measure with love and joy!! Shannon

  105.  #105TW on December 24, 2009 at 7:22 am

    hey simply shannon, how are you today? Well I’m torn. Short version, I am seeing this guy who was all affectionate and came on strong but lately we haven’t talked or seen each other in like 3 weeks. He called me Sunday and we talked and he said that he did not want to leave the relationship but he makes no effort. I haven’t heard from him since. He sent me a randon fwd text yesterday but that’s about it. I text him this morning and told him we needed to talk and whenever he had time it needed to be done face to face. Was that ok… I know I need to prepare my power speech in the meantime.

  106.  #106Simply Shannon on December 24, 2009 at 9:45 am

    TW: I vote for no initiating contact anymore. I know how hard that feels to do but if he’s not leaning forward, I wouldn’t want to fill the void. To me, that would feel bad, like I’m chasing him and possibly getting nothing from it. Throwing away your love and your joy to someone who doesn’t want it. Eck. Missing him is one bad feeling but texting/calling/emailing him and getting nothing back or just crumbs… well that feels awful.

    It feels good to find my own joy with or without a man. It feels fabulous to just be out discovering the world. If a man wants to join me then great, but otherwise, I’m determined to move on with my life and find my joy. A man is just a companion on this journey called life. He’s not the driver, just a copilot. So where are you going today?

  107.  #107Lisa on December 24, 2009 at 12:43 pm

    S. Shannon,

    “A man is just a companion on this journey called life. He’s not the driver, just a copilot. So where are you going today?”

    Thank you for this good statement. Me? Off to some stores, cleaning car, little exercise. Tonight: a friend.

    Holiday cheer to everyone 🙂

  108.  #108Daria on December 24, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    I love it! i bought so much pretty stuff for myself… And for other people yay. cute presents

    rocky docky

  109.  #109Daria on December 24, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    they are now making Alligator Skin pimp shoes for WOMEN!

    they’re everywhere

    and i saw a lovely backless pair
    my eyes feel watery

    im gonna look so pimpin
    guys everywhere are gonna envy my shoes
    im gonna be SO IN

    im fuckin awesome

  110.  #110dorothea on December 24, 2009 at 2:10 pm

    i wanna see these shoes!

  111.  #111alias girl on December 24, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    wretched hideousness.

    do not use rice milk in gravy. hideous sweetness. hideous. rrrrr. i’d have been better off using plain water. wretched. i do not like sweet mixed with salt or mushrooms and onions. i do not like kettle corn becuase of the sweet where there should be olny salt. WRETCHED! How did i not learn from my mashed potato fiasco that i can not just throw rice milk into things as if it were milk. it is not milk. it is rice water. sweety sweety rice water should be the label.

  112.  #112alias girl on December 24, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    julia child would probably not be impressed with my vegetarian, health nuttyways. she was all into heavy, creamy, buttery, meat-based, french cuisine.

    not sweety sweety rice milk in fake gravy thing. to put over tofurky and insta mashed.

  113.  #113Daria on December 24, 2009 at 5:06 pm

    Hugs AG!

    it would feel fun to COOK together

    ps check out my bloggy blog for cool sounds

    im lovin it

  114.  #114alias girl on December 24, 2009 at 6:09 pm

    HUGS back! we could cook creme brulee while you wear your fancy alligator shoes!

  115.  #115alias girl on December 24, 2009 at 6:16 pm

    thank you simply shannon. i feel supported and understood. actually i didn’t even realize until you wrote it that yes the universe was pretty prompt about answering my prayer for affection!!

    that same guy from chuch called me today. asked what i was doing over the weekend and if i wanted to do something with him. i said maybe. i feel lukewarm. rrrr. i feel resistant to men being very into me while i feel so lukewarm. i feel guilty. just like rori says. guilty. unworthy.

  116.  #116dorothea on December 24, 2009 at 8:18 pm

    i feel super bored it’s christmas eve and i’m by myself aint got no family…for the love of goddess i’m watching jersey shore on mtv lol i bought cable i’m moving on up in the world i’m so fancy.

  117.  #117Daria on December 25, 2009 at 12:08 am

    Merry Christmas! I feeel sooo sleepy

  118.  #118alias girl on December 25, 2009 at 1:22 am

    how about a rightously romantic man? a rightously loyal man?

    “I have a RIGHT to be continuously romantic and loyal to you alias girl, don’t you try and stop me!”


  119.  #119alias girl on December 25, 2009 at 1:50 am

    merry christmas lovely sirens and men who crash on our shores!

  120.  #120Daria on December 25, 2009 at 3:20 am

    i love that alias girl!

    i am still kind of experimenting with the in charge thing. this means im less likely to avoid the word YOU.


    you dont have a car and you dont want to come see me. its not gonna work

    ive decided to make it faster on the phone with this

    see how it goes

  121.  #121alias girl on December 25, 2009 at 3:55 am

    daria i feel a little harshness once the “you’s” come in. but i support your experimenting. i feel done with being in charge. i don’t feel like doing it anymore. but i feel glad i did.

    daria why do you think you still have the driving issue and i still have the texting issue? although i don’t feel like i even have much of an issue with texting (as first contact) now because i simply ignore them. i barely feel triggered. i just look at the text and go back to what i am doing.

    maybe you feel similar with the driving thing? just kind of like ‘ok, next.’

  122.  #122alias girl on December 25, 2009 at 3:58 am

    maybe i just need less sleep nowadays?

    i went to bed at five am and woke up at nine am. and here i am now at 3 am and i do not feel tired.

    wow. that will be interesting. i could have like five extra hours a day to learn the cello or something. i mean that would be 25 hrs a week. that’s like a mini career. or a lot of shopping or something. oooooh or i could learn to cook better.

  123.  #123Lisa on December 25, 2009 at 11:27 am

    I found a 4-pk of creme brulee (imported) at Costco yesterday, after reading the references here.

    Manifestation? 🙂

  124.  #124Daria on December 25, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    Alias I believe because I choose men that have a certain lifestyle. Sometimes asking them to come to me is like asking someone to cross over from the west bank to the gaza strip (i googled that now too).

    The world is against me because i choose men societally not empowered.

    like being princess Jasmine and expecting Alladin to show up at your castle tower, instead of you running into the streets dressed asa hoodrat

    in the old story Aladdin did show up, Genie helped.

    but in the new story Jasmine vaults the wall and goes adventuring.

    so i feel tired right now

    and yes its oops

    im looking for that diamond in the rough that’s willing to brave car loss, jail time, and loss of life to come take me out for an hour

    there are some who can do it all

    i feel sad

    i want them all to feel they can do it all

  125.  #125Daria on December 25, 2009 at 3:26 pm

    in other news i had a turn out good dream.

    I dont remember what I was doing, hanging out with my friend. The guy who protests abortion with bloody fetus signs outside of planned parenthood, with dirty hair and weird not feeling good attitude, and his much younger girlfriend stole my car.

    I somehow chased/found them and also a bunch of guys who I knew on the street. I asked one of the guys for a gun and he gave it to me. (I felt very included and cool and special that he actually gave it to me)

    I decided to shoot at the man in my car since he did not want to give me my car back and i was pist. First i shot by him but then I actually aimed for him and hit him, in the head but he did not die (which I was kinda glad of). He got out the car, and I was thinking to get in it but did not want to get blood on me so I did not.

    then all of a sudden the police came and had us all sit down next to the wall. besides me and my girl there were like 5 other guys. i was the one who had the gun and it was a big one, like a 44 and silver. I had it behind my back and i was sitting with my back to the wall. The police came to take my picture but I did not want to get up and luckily they let me stay sitting. They made the boys get up and patted them down, but they did not pat down us. I was feeling terrified and slow motiony sleepy from the overwhelm of the situation – a way i react when overwhelmed. I was trying to cover the gun with my sweater and put it in the back of my pants, I was afraid it would go off and shoot me or soemthing. My girl actually helped me pull a piece of my sweater over it. I could SWEAR I was gonna get caught

    but I did not.

    omgosh. I felt so relieved. They just let us go, and we walked away

    then i went somewhere to get rid of the gun before that guy came back to try to report that I shot him if he decided to (tho he had stolen my car so maybe not).

    Then I woke up feeling glad that I made it thru that one.

  126.  #126Daria on December 25, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    i feel afraid of men with money, with a good financial situation. I feel afraid they are sleazy, and superficial.

    and maybe stupid, or maybe avaricious, or boring.

    i like the underdog

    i like the poor boy thing. poor and honest. and hardworking well really just smart. and fresh and real and honest and living life with his heart

    but yeah

    im sure this prevents me myself from having money as well.

    i feel intimidated by men who have more money than me. which is none.

    well i do have money that seems to come from nowhere

    (which is nice even tho it doesnt have the magical feel i would like to it too)

    thank u

    but as far as feeling like i know how to MAKE money?


    not at all

    no go

    so i feel way better and safer with a broke man

    i love myself and my conflicting make life difficult and poor beliefs

  127.  #127dorothea on December 25, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    i dated a well off man and he never let me forget that he had more money than me and it certainly wasn’t by buying things or paying for me. i felt guilty about his abundance of money and didn’t want to be a gold digger so i avoided my feelings of rejection regarding this. i remember one valentines day after the third year in a row of the same box of chocolates, i demanded a real token of affection. i’d been his girlfriend for 3 v-days and was tired of chocolate when all my friends were getting sincere tokens of love. the man made 6 figures and i felt gypped. so around easter he gave me gorgeous diamond earrings. I dumped him a couple of months later. he was mean to me. the diamonds couldn’t make up for that. I still wear them every day and feel appreciative and appreciated that he gave them to me.

    the ones with less money always seem to be much more generous to me. it’s never an issue with them. i feel really interested in this topic.

  128.  #128schmoozy on December 30, 2009 at 6:55 am

    Oh I need your help girlies..
    I met a guy about 10 weeks ago on plentyoffish and he rang and phoned me lots and made me feel really special, then he pulled away from me a couple of weeks after we met for coffee and kept saying he was really busy, which I know he was. Over Christmas he has hardly phoned me at all and I know I’ve done the wrong thing in texting and phoning him but I couldn’t help myself. I’m not even sure that I liked him before but his ignoring me is making me think about him more and want him more.
    Yesterday I was on plentyoffish for some circular dating and he was on as well.. and so I texted him by phone and said..hi how are you..and he rang me immediately and yelled at me and gave off to me for being on plentyoffish and chatting up the boys. I told him I was on because I was working on an assignment for university and he said..oh’re working very hard, do you ever turn the computer off. So I said why are you annoyed with me because you are also on, and he are always on this website and I said to him..well if you think I am always on this website then, you must be on yourself and I said..why are you so annoyed and he said, “i’m not annoyed” but he was yelling at me! I was really hurt and he said..I’m turning the computer off now i’ll call you later..when he got home because he was in work to check his emails.
    I sent him a message by email saying that I was really hurt that he’d spoken to me that way and that I was single until I decided otherwise and if he was so annoyed that I was on plentyoffish maybe it was time he started to pay me some attention etc.. Help..what have I done. I hate waiting on him to reply, men are so good at ignoring you. I know he read my email but he hasn’t phoned me or replied to my email and I’ve got a feeling that we’ll never speak again and that makes me sad…because I thought this had some potential..and I’ve gotten to like him lots….my heart is so low..and i’ve got that awful assignment to finish off and I can’t concentrate…

  129.  #129Rori Raye on December 30, 2009 at 9:30 am

    schmoozy – This is going to be tough love – don’t read it if you’re not ready to hear it.
    I’m not sure how old you are – and your thinking and behavior is very young and inexperienced – delightfully so – but not good for your love life, and so you’re frustrated. Some of this is just information you’re missing. The young is good! And the “inexperience” will go away with practice and Circular Dating and learning how to use your energy like a girl. Plainly – he met you, and he wasn’t interested. Period. He’s just answering back your messaging. And he’s getting frustrated about getting your messages and not knowing how to respond. He’s ignoring you because he’s not into you – and your chasing him like this is demeaning and humiliating to you. He’s also not a nice guy – getting all excited and weird. Please stop contacting him. Please read all you can here, get my ebook, and start talking to the women here to get wiser. If a man wants to call you or see you, he will – so there’s no mystery about that, and as you date more, you’ll start to see that and just let them all go do whatever they want and stop even wanting to text and call. Calling and texting is pretty close to stalking. I know this is embarrassing, and I know it’s hard to believe me, too – you likely think he’s just “busy” – but isn’t that what YOU say when you’re not interested in a man? There are SO MANY men out there who will track you down, call you, take you out, love you. Go out with THOSE, and use your time for YOURSELF and your schoolwork instead of to chase men. Love, Rori

  130.  #130Schmoozy on December 30, 2009 at 10:27 am

    Rori, thanks I appreciate your tough love..
    The thing I cannot understand is that this guy was sooo into me before and after we met. When I was leaving I wasn’t that into him..and he kept asking me when I would meet him again and sent me a sweet message saying how much he enjoyed meeting me.

    He kept telling me that he wanted to tell his friends and his parents that he had met someone. I know he told his best friend about me and when I asked what he’d said, his friend was pleased for him.

    He even kept asking me when I was going to have kids…ok..he didn’t say he would be the one I would have them with..but…still.. He also kept telling me sweet stories about his niece and his family..

    I’m older than I sound, I’m doing a Masters course and I know that I’ve made stupid mistakes by not just “being” and ignoring him. So I will take my medicine. I also know that my behaviour has pushed him away from me…and that i’ll probably never regain any relationship with him, so I’ll accept that I was silly to not just lean back and let him come to me.

    I’ve learned the hard way…thanks… but if you do think there is a chance that I might be wrong about him and that he might still want a relationship with me..I’m all ears… :-)….thanks for replying so quickly Rori, I really appreciate it.
    I love this website…it’s so lovely..

  131.  #131Schmoozy on December 30, 2009 at 12:34 pm

    Men!!! Well..I leaned way back..and it seemed to work because Mr X is just after phoning me and chatting to me as if nothing is wrong. I was quite quiet with him at first and told him I was annoyed with him because he yelled at me for being on plentyoffish.

    So we talked it through and I told him that I was single and he admitted it was a free country. I didn’t want for him to think I was sitting waiting for him to come along. I’m still not happy because he has told me that he is working yesterday today and tomorrow and his car has been in the garage since Monday and he will not get it back for a week so he couldn’t come and see me. He always talks about where he is going and what he is doing and I am never included in his plans and he cannot understand why I am quiet on the other end of the phone and inwardly annoyed. I told him that he does not have time for a relationship and he said no no..I have plenty of time, I make my own hours (he is a private doctor), I can take time off whenever I want. I am inwardly screaming at this point because I am thinking, you take time off for everyone else, but you never take time off for me. I think I did say to him that he does not have time for me, or a relationship and he disagreed with me. However, I am not convinced. I just think that it is totally unacceptable for someone on the one hand to be annoyed that you are looking elsewhere, and on the other to expect you to wait until they are ready to give you their time.

    I am so frustrated with his attitude, and I want to tell him that, without letting him know that I am really into him… I really don’t know how I actually feel about him because we have only met once, but he has gotten under my skin. I’m going to try and not put too much effort into this because I might end up that I don’t like him. Advice please.. thanks all you lovely peeps. xox

  132.  #132Flipper on December 31, 2009 at 7:00 am

    Hi Schmoozy, I feel glad for you that you’ve found access to this information – this revolution – on how relationships really work before wasting years in dead-end practices.

    This already sounds like a great start: “I’m going to try and not put too much effort into this” tho’ not for the reason stated. It’s because we learn here how and Why the effort has to come from the man, and our job is to allow being our best selves and to learn how to express that.

    May I suggest that whenever you’re tempted by an ‘effort’ (called “leaning forward” in Rori speak), you come on here instead and read up, sign up for the free e-letters, get a fix from the e-book or a program.

    That way you’ll learn how to handle it when: “He always talks about where he is going and what he is doing and I am never included in his plans and he cannot understand why I am quiet on the other end of the phone and inwardly annoyed”. (Hints: it’s not keeping quiet (he can’t read minds); it IS about expressing your truth (feeling annoyance) in feeling messages (i.e. in a way he can hear you).

    “Circular dating” with any and all men gives us the practice so that we can have a truly intimate relation with the right one when he shows up, whether that be a new man or someone from our past. So for the moment, I feel this dr. would make his own rightful place in your rotation once you bring all your energy back onto yourself and drop the idea of ‘potential’ – with Rori, All Men are Potentials. Doesn’t that feel like delicious abundance?

  133.  #133schmoozy on December 31, 2009 at 8:43 am

    Thank you so much Flipper..good advice. I am definitely getting my fix from this site and it’s a great way to keep from ringing someone that I shouldn’t.

    I am just feeling at a loss as to how to get him to come to take so long for men to ring or text..especially him as he always seems to be working or out with friends. I’m studying at the minute so I’m finding it hard being at home a lot. Okay so what I am asking is for help..when he rings me….eventually..and starts going on about where he is going and what he is doing…do i.

    a. try and get a word in edgeways and tell him what is happening in my life?
    b. tell him I’m feeling hurt that he hasn’t made any effort to see me over Christmas and New Year (his car has been in the garage and he lives 3 hours away.
    c. tell him I’m feeling hurt because he never texts me or phones me now like he used to do a few weeks ago..
    d. let him talk and talk and talk and inwardly seeth that he hasn’t considered me?

    I are going to say a b or c..and that I should let him know that I am feeling this way..but I feel as though if I do, that it means that I am showing that I care too much about him..or that I’m waiting beside the phone for him…which I don’t want to do..

    thanks’re all so lovely and helpful…I really appreciate it… Oh I’m sick of feeling like a flower..passively waiting for a bumble bee to come along..I wanna doooo something!!!! lol

  134.  #134alias girl on December 31, 2009 at 4:40 pm

    i feel good to read rori and the sirens helping the newer sirens. i feel good to keep learning. schmoozy this is a good place to be and learn new tools and ways of being.

  135.  #135schmoozy on January 1, 2010 at 5:52 am

    Mr X texted me happy new year last night…and i texted him back the same plus, phone me when you get home i’d like to hear it in person..
    and he didn’t! I didn’t expect him I’m going to lean wayyyy back this week and think of myself from now on….he can go jump….
    I’m away for a beach walk… 🙂
    Happy New Year Sirens!!

  136.  #136schmoozy on January 1, 2010 at 10:05 am

    I cracked..I was on the beach and my sister took a photo of me with my phone..and said..send that to Mr X and I did…bad move..he’s working today..I think..and he hasn’t replied…..oh why oh why do I listen to people… :-((

  137.  #137Kay on January 8, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    I never post here but here goes, Schmoozy your stuck in the past, whatever he said yesterday isn’t matching up to the reality of today.

    I have to agree with Rori that you really need to step back and stop chasing this man, he is not interested in you the way you need and want him to be. IMO there is hope but you have to stop chasing, stop sending him random text messages and picture phone messages, stop emailing him on plentyoffish, JUST STOP stop, no disrespect but your behavior stinks, your anxious attitude over this man is very unattractive, you really must find a way to get in control of your emotions, the easiest way to do that is to go date other men, find another dating site, focus on you and your life. Maybe you can’t see it but you really are teaching him you don’t count and teaching him to treat you crappy by hanging onto his every word, listening to him talk about himself and doing things on terms. Once you move away from him then you can re-establish balance were you both matter but as it is now it’s always going to be about him.

    Your getting your masters, your a smart woman but maybe your not used to being rejected, maybe you need his approval again to feel good about yourself again, maybe who he is and how he’s treating has more to do with you in the way you love and treat yourself.

    Lean back, get off of plentyoffish for a while, go on real live dates and learn to smile and relax again. This is growing into a very one side situation, one were your going to continually feel annoyed and rejected not because he’s deliberately doing anything to annoy and hurt you but because you can’t and won’t face the reality of your situation, he’s just not that into you. You think if you keep text messaging and following him online he will suddenly see you like he once did but I can tell you that won’t happen, you will only invite more hurt and pain.

    Stop the toxic cycle your creating, you must get out of the past when he was placing high value on you and now accept that he’s devalued your importance and moved on. Until you accept this you will struggle and remain full of anxiety and sadness over how he’s treating you.

    You are feeling hurt over a man that is not present in your life, you have placed a huge investment in a man that absent and barely there and when he is there he’s only talking about himself which means you have taught him you are a nobody, you taught him your waiting on him, you taught him he can treat you poorly and you will stick it out and I just have to ask you what exactly are you sticking it out for?

    As for him being annoyed about you dating, this may sound harsh but how he feels about you dating is not your reality, it’s his feelings to deal with, if he was truly annoyed he would offer you a commitment, he would offer you more than half ass attempts to be in your life. Realistically he’s single and your single and he’s like a lot of men with big egos they want there cake and they want to eat it too, which is fine as long as he’s doing it with someone else.

    You deserve to be treated better…

  138.  #138Rori Raye on January 11, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Kay, Welcome, and thank you for the “tough love.” Rori

  139.  #139schmoozy on January 11, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    Kay, you’re so right. I know that..I have always known it..and known what I was doing wrong..but I’m human. and’re also right..I’m used to having the last word and being in control and never having to chase… i’ve learned my lesson, and I do think a lot more of myself than to ring/phone text or message him in anyway again. It’s done and dusted. if he contacts me again..the ball will be back and my court and i will choose where and how I kick it. I don’t reckon the ball will be in my court again, but if it was..oh how I would enjoy taking my time to kick it back.. He can go hang..he’s a bad tempered, arrogant, conceited so and so. And he’d have to change his spots before I’d have anything to do with him and treat me like the princess i deserve to be treated as.. I have never done the chasing before..somehow I’ve suffered temporary short term insanity, but hey its an interesting, difficult and hard lesson to learn and one which I have definitely learned..the hard way..
    thank you everyone, and i’m sorry for being a ninny….may all of you learn from my mistakes..if you have to..take care..Schmooz

  140.  #140Kay on January 11, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    But you must see that him being a bad tempered, arrogant, conceited so and so is who he is and there has to be a level of acceptance of that before you can truly deal with him or any man for that fact.

    I have learned from Rori and Christian and other relationship gurus that part of my issue was about controlling everything surrounding my relationships with men, no email I felt rejected, no call I felt abandoned, no instant response to my love and giving I fell apart and went into full panic freak out mode and I couldn’t see how my behavior would drive any man to pull his hair out LOL I just couldn’t see how I kept comparing fantasy, my fantasy with reality and if reality didn’t match up, if my dream man had a quick temper I tried to change it, if my dream man didn’t want what I wanted I tried to convince him to want it, if my dream man had his own wants, opinions and needs I would literally chase him down, freak out on him, berate him and feel rejected when he didn’t react or respond the way I wanted and needed him too.

    Basically I was miserable, not so much because the men made me feel miserable that was part of it but because I was driving a wedge and creating drama and conflict by my own selfish desires to be approved of, I was approval seeking and killing any hopes of creating a healthy bond with a man.

    I could go on and on but please look at it from his perspective, he didn’t promise you anything, he’s not in your life because he never was a part of your life, I don’t say that to make you feel bad or to disrespect you but most likely you like him due to your own idea of what you wanted him to be and not for who he actually is as a man.

    I don’t think this guy could truly make you happy and that could be one of many of his reasons to keep his distance, you seem like your at a place were you need way more than any man can give you…

    For me I had to manage my own unmet needs, I had to embrace the woman in me that was lost, sad, desperate, I literally sat there with her, I dragged that broken part of myself everywhere, to the supermarket, to the mall, to bed, to the shower, she truly felt abandoned and ignored because I was too busy chasing men, chasing money, chasing more happiness, I never listened to myself, that part of myself that was literally appearing and destroying any connections I developed with people male or female, just when I though AHA I got me a guy she showed up as anxiety and fear and I couldn’t pay men to stay close to me.

    Now I’m happy, I’m single and men just seem to gravitate to me, years of soul development, years to see a man just want to be around me and ask me out and want to stay close.

    Slow down Schmoozy, make sure you are being realistic and not jumping ahead of men as in assuming it’s moving forward when realistically it’s not, it’s easy to demonize and devalue men that don’t want us but if you dig deep there is a lesson in there and an opportunity to develop your emotions and mature emotionally.

    Good luck and remember he’s human, he’s not this guy that will do things your way when and how you want and need him to, he has his own life, his own dream woman and dreams, his own desires, needs and wants, his own life and no matter how much you like him and feel he’s the one if he doesn’t feel it then your going to struggle and fall into bad toxic hurtful patterns.

    Good luck!

  141.  #141schmoozy on January 11, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    Kay this is one guy who I freaked out over..and yes all of what you say is entirely true. But I have to say out of all my friends I am believe it or believe it not..very grounded and happy. I have a job I love, a home I love, family and friends I love, and yes, whilst I am missing that guy in my life…notice..i didn’t say Mr Perfect..I have been single for some time and will be happy to be so again. I understand that my chasing him has made him into a monster that I created because of my wish for him to chase me and it had the opposite effect and you’re totally right about that. But that aside..even when he was “giving to me” I put up with him talking incessantly about his life..and his day and how he viewed the world and what bad things were happening to him setting aside my own life to listen to him. I think relationships are about give and take and I’ve met other guys who I have more balance with. This guy though I blinded myself to it, is a doctor and kept saying things like..”I’m a very busy guy” in a smug self satisfied if to say..”aren’t I wonderful” and it bugged me though I turned a blind eye to it. I know he is a busy guy, I know he is a doctor, but we’re all busy and we all have lives and we’re all important and deserve to be heard and he didn’t want to hear me, even though I allowed him to be heard. So I think I’m better without him until he can decide that he is prepared to have a more balanced relationship. And no, I am not trying to excuse my behaviour because it is inexcusable. However, forgive me for being needy, over Christmas and New Year it is customary to call those people that you care about.. in my book. And yes, I understand that my life should be full to bursting with amazing people and things to do over Christmas, but it can also be a lonely time of year for some folk regardless of how many wonderful/things people you have around you. And someone who swears down the phone at you about what crap is going on in his life and is generally angry most of the time..well..sorry..I can’t be doing with it anymore..and it ain’t what I’m prepared to put up with. So..goodbye Mr Wrong. Hallo Mr Ok guy..I’m ready to meet you now I’ve been through the madness..!

  142.  #142kelly on March 22, 2010 at 12:54 am

    i came across this article and can’t help to make some comments.
    i’ll share my personal experience and maybe this will help you.
    i am in healthcare and grew up with many many doctors. i dated one childhood friend and helped him through so much emotional turmoil through his college, medical school, and residency training. i put my life on hold, cried with him, saved his soul and problem after problem, and thought that was love. after ten years of being an emotional rock to him, as soon as he became a real doctor, he told me that he wants to focus on his career, and i should leave out of his sight, b/c i will be such a burden in his life. i looked at him with disbelief and
    immediately fell into a deep dark hole with no light at the end of tunnel, i could not bounce back for a really long time. the man has no heart and no shame.
    luckily i am a fighter. i pulled myself together. inside my heart was aching terribly but i put on a smile, kept going in life with my head up high.

    at this very low point of my life, another doctor came into my life . this guy is a surgeon. extremely busy. i knew about his dating history b/c we knew each other long time ago. a typical over achiever, ambitious guy . left his down home girlfriend after hardship is over,b/c he wasn’t ready and he didn’t really like her romantically. he used to be the nicest guy i remembered, but turned into a very egotistic guy, but i can see his fragile and insecured innerself under that harsh exterior. for some reason he gets very competitive with me and would only show his sensitive side once in a while. i couldn’t tell if it was job stress or his true self, he gets irritable and temperamental, almost kind of unbearable for me. i knew he liked me, alot, but was a visitor to our relationship, controlling and kind of mean sometimes. i started to feel nervous around him when he comes to see me.
    this time i become smart. i liked him alot too, but i love myself more. instead of waiting by the phone and hoping for more of his positive affections in between his busy schedules, i focused on myself. and after some stupid things he said and done, i wrote him a break up note and left him. it hurts me to leave him, and i miss him alot, but it was causing me more sorrows than joy. he got really, really upset and tried to patch things up in an egotistic way. i was not gonna give in unless he knew how to behave like an adult. sometime later, the first guy tried to come back and wanted to re-connect by sweet talking to my family. but my heart was so shattered by his selfishness that i can forgive but can never forget.

    i know your guy is different, but i think people do change. people are usually very noble and simple while going to medical school, but money and fame will change them. you have to make sure a guy who knows he has potential is genuine to you. it takes time for the true color to come out.

    good luck to you and hope things work out well!

  143.  #143Rori Raye on March 22, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    Kelly, welcome and thank you so much for your story and the insight…Look forward to reading more about you and getting your input for everyone. Love, Rori

  144.  #144Schmoozy on March 23, 2010 at 2:56 am

    Mr Righteously busy is still contacting me..I am trying so hard to lean back. He wants help with a website..and I’m inclined not to help case he is using me. I helped him get his domain name, but I think that will be all I will help him with..not sure really… I’m kinda busy… 😉 plucking my eyebrows… lol
    I don’t like feeling at the bottom of a list. I feel a bit more in control..of myself… thanks everyone 😉
    love new practising siren

  145.  #145Sam on May 27, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    I am soo glad I found this website with women who are confident!! I need a lot of advice and suggestions with dating. Within the last 6 months I have gotten divorced. I had a friend set me up with a guy who is 6 years older then myself. He is successful, attractive, and just seemed to have everything going for himself. We began communicating through Facebook. I would allow him to mostly begin communication. We then began texting and would communicate strongly this way for a month. We did talk on the phone here and there. He lived 3 hrs away and I was soon going to be relocating an hour away from him. We seemed to hit it off well constant texting speaking on the phone every once in a while things seemed extra good. I had a trip planned to where I would be relocating and he arranged to meet me. We went on a double date with our friend who hooked is up and had the time of our life! It felt as though I had known this guy for a while. Everything was natural . He knew I was only there for a weekend and was anxious to see me again. We met a day later ad had dinner which we discussed my divorce and just more of our current situation with our personal life.
    Things were very good and we continued to communicate the same as we had. Time came to move and he took the weekend and brought his truck and allowed us to use it and pull a trailer. Things were great everything felt very natural still. We got most of my stuff moved and we hung out that weekend before I headed back to my house for two more weeks. The sweet nothing’s continued and he would express how there was something about me he hadnt found in a girl for a while and how he constantly was thinking about me. I then moved and we would spend time together one night I the weekend here and there still communicating through text and the occasional “checking in” phone call a few times a week. At one point he called to check in and I felt as though he felt e had to explain who he was with etc…I made the comment of why do you feel you have to explain yourself! He then stated just wanted to let u know if u text and felt I ignored you. We celebrated my birthday dinner and had a great time. Things then took a turning point and I do not know why! The phone calls stopped and the texting then began to be few and far in between.
    I finally had the courage to let him know that I am done with texting all the time as a form of communication because I then overthink it read it wrong and was horrible with it. I hadn’t seen him in a while and let him know I missed him and he responded with ” you don’t talk much.” I informed him that Yes it goes both ways I do like him and I am not sure where he stood. I also did let him know that I did back off but I felt he also did. I backed off because I have been going with the flow and felt it had slowed ! He responded with he will try harder. We then periodically continued to text here and there but no phone calls. I hadn’t heard from him in a few days do I called him to see what was happening since I had never been one to initiate a phone conversation. He answered and we spoke about him being sick . Currently it seems everytime any plans have been made to get together something interrupts it. The texting is still minimal and I feel as though it has now become a game…what are some thoughts? I am beyond confused!!!

  146.  #146Rori Raye on May 28, 2012 at 4:30 pm

    Sam – I think what’s going on here is you have little experience dating and with how men work. This one came and went – and you need to learn how to date and take this stuff in stride. Get help here on how to Circular Date. Love, Rori