How To Emotionally Move A Depressed Man

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030-220Here’s a great letter and question from Meg – totally universal when a man is “moody,” depressed or going through a rough patch:

The Question:

“Rori, I am so grateful to have found this treasure trove of useful advice and happy to report that applying what I have learned is completely and totally working for me with my partner, my soulmate and best friend, of nearly eight years!

For the very first time, last night a problem that had been eating me for years was addressed in a way that was so deeply satisfying to me that I am going to keep using these tools forever.

All I had to do was use feeling messages, lean back with an open heart, and keep an eye on my triggers and do the opposite of what wasn’t working. It worked like a charm and this man is a total emotional clam!

My SO is currently having an episode of situational and probably deep-seated depression due to many factors going on his life now. I’m doing my best to make it better by encouraging him to take a lot of time off from work when I get a job.

I’m deeply and securely in love with him and therefore I touch him and communicate to him often, but find he has not been reciprocating as much. I would say I have definitely been guilty of overfunctioning, and he agreed and expressed guilt for not being able to take any more initiative in the relationship at this time.

He told me that when his emotional numbness runs its course that he would be more than happy to work on pursuing me more and making me feel wanted. I’m not prepared to keep giving and giving while feeling like its depleting me and not getting me the results I want with him (being more attentive and romantic).

My question for Rori and other community members is what I can do to help him get to that point without reverting back to overfunctioning mode. I miss his “presence” in the relationship so much.

Should I act like a mother and begin actively trying to heal him, or let him do the work himself and just wait?

Thank you. Meg”

My Answer:

Meg – The word “mothering” is the death knell of a romantic relationship.

If you go with nurturing, helping, advising, encouraging, mothering – basically paying ANY attention to his state of mind and “assisting” him – you can only do damage.

The way to fix this is the opposite of what we all instinctively feel would be “best.”

Do NOTHING – but take care of YOU!!

If you create a happy, vibrant, fun life for yourself, and radiate that energy without paying ANY attention at ALL to his state of mind – that’s when he’ll snap out of it. 

Get out of YOUR mind, get busy with new things (as exotic, sensational, mind-blowing, scary and weird as possible – like acting classes, Toastmasters, flying planes, climbing walls…) and he’ll follow.

He’ll just gravitate toward you.

As long as he feels your focus on HIM, or that you’re damping down your life while you’re waiting for HIM, he’ll stay right where he is.

Love, Rori


  1.  #1Elsie on October 2, 2013 at 6:58 am

    HI Sirens, remember me? Sorry its been so long but I’ve had a LOT going on.

    So… we go. 🙂 Grab the popcorn. And I need some healthy advice. 🙂

    As many of you might remember, three weeks ago, GS showed up on my front doorstep and we talked for 6 hours and he begged to get me back. I was confused and never expected it and said I didnt think so. College CD then gave me …. “the offer.” He said that I could go and date GS if I wanted because he just wanted me to know for sure either way. CollegeCD said that he wants me to just know in my heart that I am the one for him etc. and if not then ok, but he ddnt want me ever having second thoughts or regrets. I thought about it and decided to go ahead and do it.

    A week and a half ago, GS and I went out. It was awesome. I got stunning flowers. I was taken to the hottest Italian restaurant in the city. We ended up drinking and dancing all night. He and I were very drunk and he couldnt drive home, so he stayed the night. In the morning, we woke up togehter. And that was when the crying started for both of us. We kissed, but we did nothing else. I told him that I couldnt be with him.

    He has said that he has changed, and I totally believe him. He really is amazingly different. Towards me, his family, his coworkers. He understands now that relationships are important and wants to bring those into his life. He has never been in love before me. Ever. He now understands that its worth the risk. He told me its the greatest gift that ANYONE has ever given him.

    We cried endlessly and I love him to my core. To my very cells, to my entrails, I love this man.

    So, why am I not choosing him?

    CollegeCD is healthy. He is the one texting me in the mornings “good morning beautiful” He is planning a future with me, already – houses, marriage, etc. He has never given me a reason to cry in 3 months. He stands his ground, but is always so emotionally available. He is handsome and so unbelievably giddy excited to see me. He has taken me to his work and I meet all his friends. He wants me to meet his family. He wants to start talking about a wedding (he already has). He is head over heals. He is hot and great romantically. He and I laugh harder than I’ve ever laughed with anyone. We can be passionate and intimate, and a few minutes later cracking up laughing.

    He sounds perfect, right? And he is … and I love him.




    GS is now telling me that he wants to marry me, have children with me, put a down payment on a house right now. He is ready to tell anyone and everyone about us. He is so handsome and smart and amazing.

    My friend had a great insight. She asked me to describe GS. I told her all about how smart, and rediculously handsome, and hot and wonderful my life would be with him.

    Then, she asked me to describe CollegeCD. I said….OH! I feel wonderful. I feel pretty and smart. I feel loved, and cared for and amazing.

    She said – thats your answer. With GS, you are infatuated with the idea that someone so hot and amazing that you have worked so hard for could now want you. It was such an unbelievable challenge, and he IS amazing.

    But, he doesnt make you FEEL the way that CollegeCd does. And thats what its all about.

    Now, GS says that he can be all those things for me. He says that he wants to be everything that I need. That he will work for the rest of his life to be that man.

    But thats it right?

    With GS it would be WORK to be the man I need.

    With CollegeCD, I’m easy. I’m easy for him. I can ask for reassurance 20 times in 10 minutes and he just smiles and thinks its adorable.

    I think the reason I’m writing all this out is more for me than for all of you hahah!

    The problem is that I see GS every day. And when he cried on my doorstep as he left for the last time, and I literally cried so hard after that that I threw up all morning long. He was so upset and cried so hard his eyes literally swelled almost shut. It was horrible. And I see him every day, and we still cry almost every single day when we talk. I still love him. I do. He is still like my best friend. He still wants me all I have to do is say the word. And my oxytocin with him is CRAZY. I still feel it.

    So, there you have it.

    CollegeCD said, that he knows I feel a deeper love for GS simply because of how long we were together and how emotional it was and how we clung to each other. And he said, Elsie….just give this some time, and I know that in time, you and I will have that same level and more of deepness and closeness.

    Wow – what guy says that? Understands that? Can articulate that? Is OK WITH THAT?!?!! Amazing.

    I picked CollegeCD, and that is a good healthy choice. It fits perfectly with Rori’s blog post for this about sane and healthy. And I do think he is hot, and handsome and fun.

    But, I think about GS and I am drawn to him still. There is part of me that still wants to be with him. There is part of me that loves his so deeply.

    I wish somehow I could live “in between”. I know – it is probably insane to read this.

    I have what I’ve always wanted. What all of us go after and cherish and fight for and long for. And here I am….confused. I’m insane. Please give me some advice as to how to get through these feelings in a healthy way. And if you think I have made the right choice. I’m very interested.

    Thanks sirens. Thank you. 🙂

  2.  #2Femininewoman on October 2, 2013 at 7:31 am

    Hi Elsie

  3.  #3Linda on October 2, 2013 at 7:51 am

    Interesting…I guess the advice fits for this post since they have been together for so long ( 8 years).

    I had a depressed man in my life for 3 years. I actually came to see that he liked having the excuses that depressed afforded him. It fully used it as permission to be distant, disconnected, not attend functions (even his own family things), not get dresses, find a job or keep one.

    This post is different in that they had a relationship going well before this happened. That was not the case for me. THe tools did not work for me with him.

    THe mothering thing actually feels all “Boy energy” to me with a MAN in this situation. I am so far away from that now it would feel like walking into a foggy, bog and getting sucked into the mud up to my neck. Yikes!

  4.  #4Femininewoman on October 2, 2013 at 8:00 am

    I like Rori’s advice. What popped to my head while reading it was “what you focus on grows”. The more you move away from the problem the smaller it looks/gets. Mothering is the writers instinctive reaction so Rori is suggesting something counterintuitive. Do the opposite of what we would normally do. Instead of taking care of him take care of yourself. All the suggestions here will send the man the message that his depression is not making her depressed. I can’t imagine two depressed people in relationship. I am imagining them being at each others throat. If the advice is followed I am imagining this woman so full and overflowing with life and passion that it becomes like a contagious disease that infects every one around her.

  5.  #5Iris on October 2, 2013 at 8:32 am

    Elsie, I don’t post here often. I’m normally just an avid read of Rori’s blog, but I just want to hug you, and express that I was very moved by your comment, because I am currently going through such a very similiar situation.

    I’m proud of you that you chose someone like CollegeCD. I don’t have too much advice on how to move through the feelings, but I will tell you that I am also right beside ya on how to love every single moment of that “in-between” feeling. Yes, that ambivalence can be confusing, and even sad and downright irritating. Right now, I’m just practicing leaning back, being present, and loving the confusion.

    It’s hard, but you’re not alone 🙂

  6.  #6Linda on October 2, 2013 at 8:46 am


    What a interesting place you find yourself. Probably nothing you ever expected. I would be lying if I said it would not be a big ego boost to have a great relationship going and have the guy you wanted to want you…show up like GS has.

    Sounds like CollegeCD is an exceptionally mature, secure man to let you explore and be sure. What a gift he gave you and himself. Kudos to you for being honest and telling him about it all too!

    I see your tears a healing and a sort of grieving. Reminds me of the movie “Castaway” when Tom Hanks and Helen Hunt are reunited…. she loved him still but….. Embrace them for a season and go enjoy the fullness of your relationship with CollegeCD.

    His tears will feel different to him. You can be the woman that opened up his heart and life and was a stepping stone to his wellness.


  7.  #7Mercedes on October 2, 2013 at 8:54 am

    Elsie: I haven’t been posting too much lately but stopped by this morning to read and saw this:

    “I wish somehow I could live “in between”. ”

    And it made me shake my head. If you profess to be in love with two men then…well…I don’t even want to type it.

    Why would you not consider circular dating them both (and living “in between” as you put it)? Why would you “pick” a man if you’re in love with another man? Why wouldn’t you continue to date until that day when you can choose who you want to spend the rest of your life with and there are no tears and throwing up associated with that choice? It makes no sense to me. It’s like you are consistently punishing yourself and ensuring that you are unhappy. 🙁 I want you to be happy…none of this is making you happy. I have a strong, strong feeling that one day you will meet a man that shows you what it feels like to love him and only him and who teaches you that with love, there are no questions, no fears, no doubts, and no tears for other men…

    Much Love,

  8.  #8Mercedes on October 2, 2013 at 8:57 am

    I have experience with this being the absolute truth:

    “As long as he feels your focus on HIM, or that you’re damping down your life while you’re waiting for HIM, he’ll stay right where he is.”

    And this:

    “If you create a happy, vibrant, fun life for yourself, and radiate that energy without paying ANY attention at ALL to his state of mind – that’s when he’ll snap out of it. ”

    Two different men. Guess which one I’m with today?

    Much Love,

  9.  #9Linda on October 2, 2013 at 10:11 am

    I missed the comment in the post that Mercedes picked up on. I thought you had already made a choice and were asking for how to navigate or understand the feelings ( which I still feel are healing)

    I re-read your post. I did not see where you say you are in love with CollegeCD ? I do see where you say that you are with GS but cant be with him. Of course it is hard to convey all our feelings here on the blog and some get lost… but that does feel confusing to read but may make perfect logical sense in your head.

    Soup to sink into and explore. In the meantime… Mercedes has a good point. so wise. I am taking notes here and learning too!

  10.  #10Waterfall on October 2, 2013 at 10:58 am



    Can I ask a question. Can you love a man who doesn’t seem to even care or notice when you are upset unless you go incredibly, incredibly quiet with him?

    Then when you talk to him about it he seems to have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and really didn’t notice you were upset?

    Is this a sign that this is an unhealthy relationship?

  11.  #11carla on October 2, 2013 at 11:35 am

    I’m realizing that it’s all about loving and caring for me first and foremost… and then everything else falls into place.
    I find throwing myself into a project always helps me to take the focus off the man (whoever he may be at the time 🙂
    The more I let go the more I get.
    Thanks Rori!

  12.  #12Lemonbutter on October 2, 2013 at 11:58 am

    Waterfall…does he not care, or not notice?

    When you’re upset, what do you do and say?

    Just interested to know….*hugs*

    Random thought:

    I feel like surrendering to my feelings, to my vulnerability. For so, so, so long I have been fighting against my vulnerability, pushing down my feelings.

    Now I want them to be my strength, and my voice.

  13.  #13Mercedes on October 2, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    Linda: I’m going by previous comments on previous posts where Elsie said she loves CollegeCD. I’m assuming those feelings have not changed but…I also know I shouldn’t assume. LOL

    Much Love,

  14.  #14Lemonbutter on October 2, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    I feel horribly triggered right now.

    I love Rori’s advice of taking care of ME……right now I don’t care about any man’s feelings. Maybe except my grandads.

    Its long overdue that I put my feelings first.

    I am done with putting men before my own well-being, just because I was scared of hurting their egos.

    Their egos aren’t my concern any more, I have to take care of me.

    That thought made me smile. I suddenly feel less triggered.

  15.  #15Millie on October 2, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    wow Elsie….that is such a “fairy tale” place to be…having two men that are amazing in different ways pursuing you.

    I agree with Mercedes- why do you have to choose now? Date both of them, let GS put his money where his mouth is, if you truly want and believe he will deliver.

    I also agree with Mercedes on loving both men and “living in between.” Ultimately I feel like that limits your relationships with both men and may in the long run, keep you from intimacy, rather than developing it deeper. That’s just my 2 cents….have you entertained the possibility that there may be a better man for you out there than these two?

    I am inspired by the amazing turnaround you’ve made and look at the results!!! I’m trying to turn myself around, I’ve been taking small steps, but I still find my mind wandering to men and feeling myself wanting attention from them. I invited a guy I like to my bday and he said he is coming! So that makes me really happy even if he is just a friend right now. No CD prospects right now….so I am focusing on what I want to do.

  16.  #16Millie on October 2, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    Also Elsie– the crying and throwing up worries me….I’ve been infatuated with a man that way before and I think it was making me sick, physically sick, mentally sick. I associated crying with how much I loved him, when at the end of the day I realized I used so many tears on that relationship, to the point of dehydration. I would give it time to see if those tears actually turn into a happy relationship because right now…it’s not…and throwing up is your body’s way of sending you a message, even if it is triggered by alcohol….listen to your body.

  17.  #17Millie on October 2, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    Annie–from the previous thread, hope you are reading!! Wow–he spent all those important holidays with you and his wife never asked??? That sounds very suspicious. Either she was “checked out” of the relationship or he created a norm for him to be absent and she did not challenge it, or so he says. Either way, you deserve a man that is willing to give himself 100% to you…and I always feel that what a man does to one woman he is capable of doing to another. If he cheated on her and was technically cheating on you also, he is not an honest man. What is the other story you wanted to share? I’m glad you are not with this man…..

  18.  #18Lemonbutter on October 2, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    I cried and cried and cried over a man for 3 months solid. In the end I was so stressed I started having physical signs of stress.

    So damaging.

    If I feel anything for a man, I want it to feel positive, uplifting, inspiring, loving, safe and warm.

    No more crying over men, no more.

  19.  #19Shina on October 2, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    Amen Rori! My fiance and I are going through an incredibly difficult time in our lives right now (financially, family, personally, etc.) and since we live together our moods can REALLY affect/trigger each other — esp mine on his. When life is already difficult outside of your relationship, I find it super challenging to also have to deal with a depressed/moody man. Honestly, sometimes I wish I lived alone again — just so I can take care of my own stress/anxiety without having someone else’s bad mood add to the difficult feelings I’m currently dealing with. And the fact that when I’m upset/not in a good mood it REALLY affects my fiance’s mood and can put him in a funk, even when I’m trying to stay away and be in a different room by myself, this adds to my stress. As much as I love how my man totally mirrors my current state of being, I also find it super annoying that he does mirror my feelings so easily (can’t you please just stay happy or neutral regardless of what’s going on with me?!).

    Oh well, but I would never trade that for any other alternatives. I really do love how deeply and emotionally my man is connected to me.

    But Rori is SSOOOO on point in this post. Whenever my man is in a funk or in his “man cave” for various reasons, I found I totally exacerbate the problem whenever I lean towards him and try to make everything better (my natural tendency is “can’t we all just get along?!”). If I totally ignore him (not in a mean way) and just go about my day focusing on doing things that interest me, make me happy, or even if there’s nothing to do I just hold the vibe of being ‘ridiculously happy’ (usually with an image of my ideal life and ideal relationship), it might take a few hours (or a day) but my man will come around and he will be happy and on the same “happy” emotional state that I’ve been holding. No discussions needed, no having “the talk.” He just shows-up being that happy, super loving, super caring & protective awesome partner I’ve been imagining & feeling.

    There are still times when I wonder, “it can’t be THIS easy?!”

    What I’ve really learned through all of this is just HOW IMPORTANT it is for me to take exquisite care of my emotional/physical well-being. That quote is so not a joke: “When the woman is happy, the man (and the rest of the family) is happy.” These days even though we’re facing incredibly difficult times in our lives, I’ve totally stopped trying to “monitor,”navigate, and nurture/take care of my man’s feelings — because it only makes things worse and I NEVER get the results I want. Instead I’m constantly checking in with myself and my body to make sure I’m good and taken care of.

  20.  #20Shina on October 2, 2013 at 2:24 pm


    You made the right choice in choosing the CollegeCD vs. GS. After reading your post and some of your previous posts, I 100% agree with your friend’s assessment between the two of them.

    From seeing some of my friends/family going through divorce, and being part of a huge community of women who share candidly about their relationships (married & waiting to be engaged), whenever a woman marries a man like GS she always suffers in the relationship. Not to say GS is a bad person, etc. but whenever a man has THIS many issues around intimacy and getting married, etc. unless he does some super-duper heavy duty therapy (and behavioral therapy) AND has proven that he’s been successful in being a loving partner for significant period of time, he almost always reverts back to his old behavior later on down the road. He will begin to withdraw from the relationship (like GS before this new him), will tell the woman he’s “confused” and doesn’t “feel” the feelings of love he used to, and then will question whether or not the marriage/relationship is working for him — and since he’s so into his own problems, a man like this can’t give much love & reassurance to the woman while she’s being affected by all of this.

    I’m sure it feels absolutely awesome that GS is back in your life so “changed” and showing-up in ways that you’ve always dreamed of. BUT I would strongly caution against trusting this “new” him. He knows about CollegeCD and hasn’t quite “gotten” you yet, so his male ego is challenged and all men have this need to “win.” Not saying that he’s not sincere in what he says to you, etc. BUT it’s always when a man is “comfortable” and no longer has to “work” to get a woman, that all his bad behavior comes to the surface. And GS only recently had this “epiphany” in his life about love and intimacy, he has NO track record of actually showing-up as this new changed man over a significant period of time while he’s feeling COMFORTABLE in the relationship.

    From everything you wrote about CollegeCD, this guy sounds like a real keeper! You’re absolutely right in that when you’re with a man who finds it EASY to meet your needs (he doesn’t have to “Work” or try like GS says) than in the future when he’s also stressed out and not in a good place, he will still be able to take care of you. Because it’s second nature to him. ANYONE can be on their best behavior when they’re happy or in the beginning of a new relationship. Don’t measure a man during those times. It’s when he himself is barely holding on and doesn’t have much emotional/physical stamina to give, someone like CollegeCD will still love and be there for you and the relationship.

    CollegeCD is naturally kind, loving, and generous to you. I’m not saying he is your “the one.” But with these men showing up at your door, you should go with your feelings and choose the one who makes YOU feel best. As my grandmother always says to me, a woman who marries a man who naturally has a kind, gentle, generous, and loving personality (instead of having to work to be nice), will be happy and loved in her marriage.

    Congrats on turning your life and relationships around and being where you are now! Whoo-hoo to having abundant love 🙂

  21.  #21lili121 on October 2, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    hi ,
    please Rori and Dominique , and all u serins need ur opinion and advise

    i need to understand the concept of leaning back and do nothing but focus in myself ..

    is this applicable whe we have conflicts? ex that i iscover he is contacting other women , or not responding to my day cals or planning for valentine
    we are in relation for 7 years and the past year all theses things shows up ..
    everytime he is trying o talk about the problem he is telling that there is no problem at all and everything is minor and i am exagerating things and being tough to stop contact or respnding to his calls .

    lately i fade up and started this concept , leaning back not contact him and not answer any message which i feel he is trying to get me back without opening up any previous conflict supposing there was nothing except it is my tough mind !

    i stopped talking to him or answering .. yes i still love home and want him , but not in this way of making me minor ( as I feel ) ..

    since two months , he stopped contacting me … and I don’t know what to do , I fill my day with work , sports , family but i don’t what and whom is responsible for things to reach this thing …

    I need advise of two things :

    was it my comunication and way to deal with him wrong , the thing let him stop contacting me ? and on contioneous search for another woman ?

    what to do to bring the contact back and correct the mistakes if happened ?

    should i contact him ?


  22.  #22Dominique on October 2, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    Waterfall – 10 – Not necessarily. Many men do not do well with anything but in your face blatant. How about telling him next time – I feel upset.


  23.  #23Dominique on October 2, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    Elsie – I already gave you my thoughts elsewhere. I feel confident you will figure this out. Please allow the clarity to come to you by calming your mind and body as much as you can.


  24.  #24Olivia on October 2, 2013 at 3:57 pm


    Life is full of doubts tears and fears and no person or situation will abate them. Facing that and being peaceful despite them is the key to happiness.

    These guys both sound like pretty great guys a girl could work with. And it sounds like CollegeCD is worth giving a solid gold chance to right now because of his actions. Why not give it 3 or 6 months and kick the can down the road a bit more. You don’t need to marry the man or get engaged anytime soon.

    I want to note that I relate 100% to your situation, which is similar to my own…I’ve written about that before.

    Anyways -one idea…is there any way you can change jobs so you are not around GS constantly with his hormones wafting towards you and triggering your oxytocin?? haha.

  25.  #25Zia on October 2, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    I reckon Elsie needs another CD to throw in the mix, so there’s not all this bouncing back and forth between the two.

  26.  #26Luzydel on October 2, 2013 at 5:24 pm

    SD got a dose of me feminine evolution, he hasn’t replied to my text the one I was honest. I said it without fear. Before I used to be afraid of loosing men even if I didn’t really want them. But the fear of loosing them was enough to stay and take their crumbs.

  27.  #27Liquid Light on October 2, 2013 at 5:50 pm

    I guess I have a differing point of view with regard to Elsie’s situation and the fact that a lot of people are saying to continue to date them both and others for a while. I just don’t think a lot of men are going to put up with that and even though they may say they are cool with it, I think that if they really like you and feel like you are just playing with them and aren’t serious about them (after a certain point and you have been dating for a while), they will bolt. I think if they care about you and they don’t feel like you care about them, they may move on and find someone that will. So at least based on my experience, its a risk to just keep someone dangling like that for months on end….just my two cents.

  28.  #28Liquid Light on October 2, 2013 at 5:56 pm

    Shina 20, great post, you hit the nail on the head!

  29.  #29prplpsn28 on October 2, 2013 at 7:02 pm

    Signing in to new thread. Hard for me to keep up lately.

  30.  #30LoveAlways on October 2, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    I stepped back and away completely from the depressed man in my life. I don’t want to feel that energy anymore. I want someone stronger. I feel awful now just thinking of being under that gloomy doomy cloud. I am sunshine, I am soft, I am warm, I am bright. Depression does not feel good in my space. I feel back for taking care of me and stepping away, but I feel so thankful for my boy making the right decision. I can’t fix him

  31.  #31LoveAlways on October 2, 2013 at 7:06 pm

    Elsie, I loved your post. Good for you and collegeCd

  32.  #32LoveAlways on October 2, 2013 at 7:09 pm

    Shina #20 Bravo!!! Very well said!

  33.  #33Liquid Light on October 2, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    @LoveAlways 29 I couldn’t agree more, bravo to you! I won’t tolerate going out with a depressed man, or an angry man, or a wimpy man. It just won’t do it, I don’t want that energy in my life. That goes for friends too. I try to be a positive force in the world and give people a lot of encouragement and support so I expect that in return. Not always but that’s the energy I want around me. (It wasn’t always the case though, I’m naturally a pessimist so it takes a lot of effort to retrain myself. But its worth it since I like being around me so much more now! ) I want someone positive and happy too!

  34.  #34Aminata on October 2, 2013 at 7:25 pm

    This post is so real. I dealt with this same issue just Monday. My SO was having a moody moment. He sat on the back balcony staring into space. At first I wanted to check on him and did a couple of times which I could tell made him want to be alone even more. Then I thought to myself, “When I’m depressed and want to figure things out, people who try to ‘cheer me up’ just really get on my freaking nerves!!!” Then I laughed to myself and started cleaning the apartment to loud hip hop, dancing around having fun. I got dressed and got pretty as he was planning to go home in kind of a hurried huff. When he saw how happy and pretty I was as he left, he felt a pang and told me so. He snapped out of the depression on his own. And I didn’t have to go out and do anything crazy. I just focused on day to day me. Just wanted to put that out there. I learned all this from reading Rori for the past few years.

  35.  #35Gazelle on October 2, 2013 at 7:53 pm

    I totally get that Meg is triggered and needs to focus on herself. However, what if one’s partner is sick or struggling emotionally and one does NOT feel triggered? Can we still help him or take care of him? For example, my husband, who takes excellent care of me when he is well, has been sick lately. He is in bed and I take care of him. Am I doing some harm there? He is extremely appreciative and loving towards me when I do. Thanks!

  36.  #36Liquid Light on October 2, 2013 at 9:22 pm

    Gazelle, that sounds like a very caring and loving relationship that you have with your husband…the kind that we all want. Keep it up and don’t second guess yourself! It sounds fantastic! 🙂

  37.  #37Liquid Light on October 2, 2013 at 9:37 pm

    Oh wow, I’m just realizing how much more on edge I am with someone that I like. I read all this stuff into his email that I wouldn’t of if I didn’t like this guy. Wow! I’ve got to be aware of that cuz its so easy for me to jump to conclusions with someone and write them off which I almost did yesterday! Wow! Yes, I am the queen of jumping to conclusions too, really got to watch that. Any suggestions?

  38.  #38Liquid Light on October 2, 2013 at 9:38 pm

    OK, I feel like I’m talking to myself here…

  39.  #39Liquid Light on October 2, 2013 at 9:38 pm

    Great post, Liquid Light! hahahahahahahahaha!!!!

  40.  #40Liquid Light on October 2, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    Hey LL, that was LOL!


  41.  #41Liquid Light on October 2, 2013 at 9:43 pm

    OK, stopping now

    Put the keyboard down… Step away from the monitor.


  42.  #42Indigo on October 2, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    I feel yucky today… and I really hesitate to use words like that to describe my feelings, because I know it comes from being extremely sensitive.

    I feel all these things, these connections, on a level which is so deep and beautiful… yet no one around me seems to feel that. I contend with feeling misunderstood so often. Things have so much more meaning for me. I feel so much more deeply.

    I don’t know what to do. It’s like I live with this constant grief. I just want a relationship where I can connect with this deep part of myself. And people don’t understand it or they misunderstand…
    *sigh*. *hugs* to me.

  43.  #43Joy on October 2, 2013 at 10:47 pm

    Question: Do we really only RESPOND to men and NEVER INITIATE? This feels so strange … and I’m not sure if I messed up.

    I have gone on two very great dates with this guy. He initiated everything. He did not text me or call me between dates, only to set up each date. I did not reach out to him at all either. Dates took place one week apart.

    Tonight it had been three days since our last awesome second date. I decided to text him that I had a great time the other night and it felt really fun to me.

    Is this a huge no-no do you think? I just wanted to give a little something back.

    Also, he did not kiss me or initiate any physical touch really on either date. But he paid for everything, remembered little things I said, asked me lots of questions, we shared lots of laughs.

    He did text me back fairly fast to say he had a great time too and let’s get together this weekend. I said sounds good.

    Feedback, please, Sirens!

  44.  #44Maxine on October 2, 2013 at 10:49 pm

    What if you are the one dealing with your state of mind..i feel desperate to know how this works in reverse! In one year Rori’ s programmes and all these lovely blog sirens have changed my entire life from tearing wide and exposing the unhappiness and toxicity of my relationship and therefore my life to an unbearably painful break up of my family.
    I did ALL the work..found me again..circular dated 5 men in rotation..i frickin rock starred it!
    6 months later my ex wants me bk and for us all to be a family again!! Dream come true! Happy ending! All Rori says is true..incredible! And im so thankful
    Now 6 months into the new phase of our relationship im unravelling! Im having a hard time putting the horrible past behind us and keep bringing it up..i go between insecurity to completely withdrawing from him..from everyone
    Yet when im alone i still romance myself love myself etc etc. Im finding im needing to work on myself a lot and now my partner, 2 of my best friends, my sister and my niece ALL laid into me yesterday that ive dropped off the radar i heard im selfish, i never make enough effort and all of them said its like you never initiate calls or plans..dont forget this is also coming from my partner…wasnt i leaning back then?
    One thing that ive cried all nite about it my best friend telling me i changed when M moved back in and it looked for a while that she had got her best friend back and i had left behind the sluttiness (circular dating many men)
    Please someone help me bk on my horse and tell me where ive gone wrong

  45.  #45Millie on October 2, 2013 at 11:49 pm

    @Joy 43–

    I was in a similar dilemma a bit ago…the guy was talking to me everyday and after our 2nd date, seemed to drop the ball. I debated texting him first and I decided to “see what happens.” I initiated with a few other things as well, overall the date went ok, but I haven’t heard from him. In hindsight, I regret leaning forward because I took control and that prevents me from seeing him being the man that he is and showing me how much he likes me.

    There is nothing wrong with the text you want to send, nor is there anything wrong with sending it, but it’s all in your vibe. In my opinion–because I can say this about myself–the fact that you are debating it and asking advice about sending it shows that you don’t feel confident and/or easy about it. If I could “do it over” with this guy (and I can with a new guy yay) I would focus on leaning back especially in the beginning. Let him show you who he is and what kind of man he is….I believe there is a time for initiating, but for me I realize after the 2nd date is too soon for that. I’m sure you will do what feels good to you, and remember at the end of the day learn from it.

  46.  #46Linda G on October 3, 2013 at 3:44 am

    Linda, (from another Linda)

    I also had a depressed man in my life, it made me overfunction and turn from lover to mother

    I still see him from time to time at social events, we have a strong connection but I know he is incapable of a relationship, as I am sure he does, too

  47.  #47Jammy85 on October 3, 2013 at 5:50 am

    I sooooo needed to read this post today – thank you xxx

  48.  #48Jammy85 on October 3, 2013 at 6:09 am

    Indigo, I hear you.

    When I’m swimming at the deep end my horse or my cats know exactly where I am. Although the connection is not the same as with people I often feel like they’re not afraid of swimming to the depths I want to go to. There is a kind of universal, unspoken friendship and understanding in that, which I can swim back to the shore with feeling stronger – knowing I will never be alone out there where people are too scared to venture to.

    Hugs to you sister xxxx

  49.  #49Emerson on October 3, 2013 at 6:31 am

    There is nothing wrong with being sensitive. I am in the sensitive side myself…
    I am strong but also very sensitive… Sometimes I feel misunderstood but I also feel thankful that it makes me very sensitive to the feelings of others and how I treat people. I have a coworker who is basically the exact opposite, it blows me away the things she says to people. Very insensitive.

    I’m sorry about the feeling of grief. I thinkninkind if know what you mean by that,,,I feel a heaviness sometimes and a sad feeling and if I reach way down I usually find that it’s due to my not being kind to myself and besting myself up.

    In face I will beat myself up for not voting for me or letting people treat me badly and it triggers a grief feeling. Anyways thanks for let of me share that. Just more reason to be kind to myself.

  50.  #50Daria on October 3, 2013 at 6:46 am

    ((((Maxine)))) – it sounds like you are ‘catching flack’ as Rori has said to me before

    sometimes when we are changing our lives the people in our lives who were used to us being one way (depressed unhappy) may feel uncomfortable with the changes into a new powerful us

    some people will drift away, some will eventually be influenced by us and inspired to their own healing

    your friend’s comments about ‘sluttiness’ is not what I’d want to hear

    it sounds like theres more practice for you on boundaries “i feel angry and awful hearing that. i don’t want to be talked to that way”

    you can write Rori thru her assistant at

    Dominique is available for coaching too

    it can help a lot

    my family is not supportive of the changes I’m making for myself either, I feel committed to my own healing and empowerment however. And I have noticed certain healing influences on them as well

    It’s that often the first response people have to change is attack/reject… then other responses come after the new energy is maintained

  51.  #51Femininewoman on October 3, 2013 at 6:48 am

    Maxine I am not sure that you have gone wrong anywhere. All that crossed my mind was maybe you could practice the tools more consistently on a daily basis. Maybe particularly around opening your heart and allowing its light to radiate out in the world. Maybe create an image for this and keep bringing it to mind.

  52.  #52Daria on October 3, 2013 at 6:49 am

    Joy – yes, the idea is not to initiate by texting him. Now that you have it no longer matters however, you can look at it as an experiment

    I would look at the message of what was going on for me with the urge to text him… is it that you really would have felt better with more contact from Him? is it the fear of losing him (due to his thinking you’re not interested) ?

    These are patterns to heal in ourselves…

  53.  #53Femininewoman on October 3, 2013 at 6:52 am

    Joy I suspect maybe talking more like a poet and sharing your feelings in the moment might be where your work is. Your post suggests reporter style fact based communication. I am taking my cue from that.

  54.  #54Femininewoman on October 3, 2013 at 6:56 am

    Indigo……..just a thought. I think you connect with that deep part of you. Maybe what you want is to share that someone. Remember that you are likely very evolved. Not many people are so it would be difficult for them to resonate with you. It could actually repel them, I think, because the energies might be colliding.

  55.  #55Femininewoman on October 3, 2013 at 6:57 am

    I also believe it is okay to say “I feel yucky”. At least say it to yourself and focus your attention on it to see if it morphs into something else.

  56.  #56Femininewoman on October 3, 2013 at 7:03 am

    RE 27 – Liquid Light for the most part I agree with you. I prefer not to comment on the post but I believe it is the exclusivity that is causing most of the guilt and physical reactions.
    I believe that when there are several men and a women makes a conscious choice and commitment to be with one from among the group, her bodily systems settles into peace. She knows its her choice.

    For the most part many women just fall into relationships because the man is there. Then there is the feeling of obligation/guilt as we beat ourselves up with what we should and shouldn’t do. Though our gut is screaming at us.

  57.  #57Heart on October 3, 2013 at 7:04 am

    Blog – I feel really indecisive…I’m agonising…I was offered a Saturday job at a company for 2.5 months…

    I would love having the extra money…but I’m worried..I get burnt out. Any advice?

  58.  #58Heart on October 3, 2013 at 7:06 am

    also…it’s my social life will dwindle…but I’ll be able to plan a great vacation..

  59.  #59Femininewoman on October 3, 2013 at 7:09 am

    Heart it’s only 2.5 months. Not your whole life. Is the thought that came to my head.

  60.  #60Heart on October 3, 2013 at 7:15 am

    FW – You’re right….2.5 months should be ok…It’s just that Weekends are kinda Important.
    But, I would like to have extra money!
    Thanks for the feedback…

  61.  #61Cris on October 3, 2013 at 7:30 am

    so sorry that this idea of “not taking care” is so difficult to admit for me

  62.  #62Shina on October 3, 2013 at 7:56 am

    LoveAlways #32 Thank you!! 🙂 ((hugs))

  63.  #63Shina on October 3, 2013 at 8:12 am

    Liquid Light #27 & 28: Thank you! 🙂 I love your comments! xoxo

    Congratulations!! I see from your posts that you are really busy dating these days — that’s super awesome! I completely agree with your #27 post, when a man has proclaimed his love for you and even though you might not have the “ring”, etc. but he’s steadily moving the relationship forward and showing you how committed he is, they DON’T like it if you continue to see other men. From my own experience, even though they might have been cool with you dating other guys in the beginning, once you’re in a firmly established relationship and he’s showing up 24/7 as a committed man, if you continue to date other men they will see that as you playing games with them — that you’re not really serious about settling down and just want to play the field, or worse yet, that you’re a woman they cannot trust with their heart (betrayal).

    I believe at that point in your relationship, you can CD by being open to life and everyone around you. You don’t go out on dates anymore BUT you can still appreciate the men who continue to show-up and you can “flirt” with them in a friendly way, and appreciate what they do for you (i.e. when they open doors for you, help you carry stuff, help you find the item you need, etc.) Now THAT I still definitely do, and it really warms my heart to see men trying to be chivalrous and wanting to help/do things for me simply because I’m a woman. Men are awesome!

    I’m so excited for you and all the men that are showing up in your life! It sounds like you’re having a real blast 😉 Always remember that YOU are the princess they are trying to win over, and YOU get to set the pace of how fast or slow the relationship progresses. Don’t ever let a man pressure you to do anything you don’t feel 100% sure about (even if you feel 85% sure it’s not 100% so take your time).

    You’re awesome! Way to go girl 🙂

  64.  #64Maxine on October 3, 2013 at 8:17 am

    Femininewoman…feeling thankful to you for your comment Feels right what you say around practising tools everyday..when I was learning how to be a single mummy and date again it was easy for me to be alone to ‘catch up with my own healing work’ after a long theres s man around the home again I feel detached from that process and even like I resist making time for myself to meditate and simply be or do yoga etc..i feel very self consious around him when I am in my ‘own zone’ I feel embarrassed and judged by him without him really saying anything. Now that he my friends and family have all told me I am selfish with my time and hardly ever make time for them or initiate plans I feel even less like I am ‘allowed’ space for me.. I know I am not very sociable since I got bk togethet with M…and I dont honestly know why this is…fear I guess..but what of? My best friend thinks I am this amazingly togther person and doesnt buy that I feel insecure on a daily basis..I told them all how I feel..overwhelmed..stressed and worried a lot about how my family will repair since mine and M’s awful separation..they still look at me like I am lying!
    Feels awful writing all this..feel so judged and like I dont deserve even this safe place on the I am truly feeling grateful for your reply..even if it is coming from my squeaky voice- as Rori puts it so well

  65.  #65Mercedes on October 3, 2013 at 8:24 am

    LL: I was very surprised to read you disagreeing with circular dating (when it comes to Elsie’s situation). I had a very, very different experience with it than the one you describe. J did not “bolt”, he actually stepped up and claimed me. 🙂 Maybe I was just lucky, I don’t know. It’s one of the reasons I was so drawn to Rori’s work though. Her teachings on what actually happens when you cd is exactly what my experience has shown me as well.

    I agree with Zia (#25) that adding another man would help soooo much. I think it would teach that there is no reason to make a decision about who you want to spend the rest of your life with when you’re not ready to make that decision. Being torn between two men signals (strongly) that a woman is not ready to make that choice. I don’t see why she should force it at all.

    If a man loves a woman, a little competition is not going to remove him from the equation, it’s actually going to do the opposite. I guess in my mind, if a man can’t handle the knowledge that someone else might be working a little harder to get the girl, then the man probably needs to find another girl. I think CollegeCD would agree with me. He actually encouraged Elsie to date GS. He’s not afraid. That’s kind of sexy in my opinion. Imagine having two or three men like that? And not having to rush into choosing one of them? It’s a pretty cool feeling…

    Much Love,

  66.  #66Maxine on October 3, 2013 at 8:38 am

    WOW Daria!
    To read that your family dissaprove of the changes you’re making but you still feel resolutely committed to them has just had me leap from my seat and say out loud in the Kitchen mirror ‘it’ s my LIFE’ and then I cried a bit
    Yes! Why didnt I say to her ‘It doesn’t feel good to hear you say that!’ And say ‘I stand by the choices I make as you do yours’
    I feel so angry too that M didnt defend me and agreed with them! He said he shouldn’t pat me on the head and tell me there there when what I should hear is that you ARE bad as a friend sometimes and you DO not return calls and seem too busy urgggh
    I feel angry that he sees me this way

  67.  #67Indigo on October 3, 2013 at 9:34 am


    Thank you for your sweet post to me honey x

    I often retreat to the refuge of my horse, and she always resonates with my sensitivity in a way that immediately calms me. I always come away from her thinking how blessed I am to have a friend like her. I also have a cat, who climbs up on my lap and covers my face with soft kisses. I agree with you and love how purely and readily animals will dive into those sensitive waters with us.

    *hugs* to you

  68.  #68Indigo on October 3, 2013 at 9:37 am


    Thank you for your message, it was very comforting and made me feel heard. That sad heavy feeling is exactly what I am talking about.

    And I agree with you about people who are insensitive… I am quite honestly *horrified* by how some people treat one another. Like jaw hanging open, uncomprehending.


  69.  #69Indigo on October 3, 2013 at 9:45 am

    Feminine Woman,

    Thank you.

    I connect with that deep part of myself all the time, I am in constant contact with an energy of such beauty it sometimes makes me weep. In my best dreams, I want someone to share it with, or at least someone who can appreciate and accept in some small part its beauty, and share in its joy.

    And you are right – this sensitivity does have a strange effect on people. Some people are very drawn to it, some people are repelled by it and some people become hostile in its presence.

    The harshness of the world is hard for me to deal with, and people not understanding me. I’ve grown to accept that that is the way of it when you are on this particular path, but I do still long for a man whom I can share myself with, who will love and accept this part of me.

  70.  #70Turquoise on October 3, 2013 at 9:48 am

    Hi Sirens,

    I hope everyone has been doing really well! It’s been six months since my mom died, and I’ve been feeling fairly withdrawn from the idea of dating… sort of like, it hasn’t happened by now… why bother. I still feel sad without my mom, and it’s easy to throw all my energy into my girls and even to Mr. Conversation, who is always in the picture.. if only in the background.

    Well, I started talking with a couple new guys, and the one actually called me on it a bit. He told me I have a brick wall up and my guard is up. I felt really resistant to keep talking to him… kind of like who are you to feel so familiar with me, when I haven’t even met yet….. but the one tool I’m working most on, is not reacting right away. With anything. I took some space, took some time to think about it. And I think he’s right. I seem to have convinced myself that there just aren’t any good guys or good relationships out there for me. Lots to think about!

    Elsie, I agree with the others…. why the rush to commit to just one? it’s only been 3 months…. relationships can change so much the first year.

  71.  #71Indigo on October 3, 2013 at 9:53 am

    I contended with a great deal of grief today over D, so much I was barely functional at work. I was overwhelmed and cried like a little baby. Luckily I had a friend to talk to me and support me over the phone (I am awed by people like this – these people are angels) and let me talk and cry and was soft and caring with me. I felt awful and was hurting tremendously.

    And then the grief and crying gave way to realisations of the fears that are within me, that I saw with a clarity I have never done before – how afraid I am, in a relationship and before one even starts, of being abandoned, not loved, not “chosen”. How scared I am, how I haven’t fully trusted relationships or felt secure in them. Bringing these fears to the fore felt like a kind of healing.

    And then I went out walking this evening and a perfect stranger came up to me and offered me her friendship and asked if I’d like to walk with her and her friends in the evenings.

    It felt like a comfort, it felt like an opening, I would like to heal these fears.

  72.  #72Liquid Light on October 3, 2013 at 9:58 am


    Read Shina’s post 63, she expresses my sentiments about Elise’s situation perfectly.

    I don’t think very many men will put up with your dating around if they are serious about you, showing up for you, taking you out, showing that they are serious about you. Its not a one way street, they expect that in return. That’s my experience anyway so if I were Elise I would be extremely cautious about playing the field in this situation where she obviously really likes, well, both these guys. But in my opinion only one of them has proven that he is worthy of her.

  73.  #73Indigo on October 3, 2013 at 10:00 am


    I don’t know if this is helpful, but I find sometimes people say things to you like this, such as “you’re selfish, you never initiate plans etc.” because they are reflecting something back to you. Ways in which you might not be happy with the way you’re running your own life. Areas in which you could care for yourself better, and therefore be more present for your family and friends. This has been true for me. I find it’s not usually so much a criticism from them as an expression of discomfort that they are feeling from somewhere. Just a thought

  74.  #74Liquid Light on October 3, 2013 at 10:01 am

    Thanks Shina for your encouraging words! I really appreciate it…still struggling with the pressure thing. I need to go back and read what you wrote about how to deal with that…do you remember what post that was under?

    Keep posting, Shina, its great having you back here!

  75.  #75Indigo on October 3, 2013 at 10:02 am


    2.5 months is only 10 weeks… not that long. Although I completely hear you about weekends.

  76.  #76Mercedes on October 3, 2013 at 10:10 am

    LL: I read it. I get where you are coming from. Not my experience at all but I do see why someone would feel that way.

    The guys who left when I was cding were the ones who actually weren’t interested at all. The ones who were hung in there. No man who “loved” me or “really cared about me” or “felt like he was falling for me” left because I was dating other men.

    Maybe Rori is off base here with “most” men, I don’t know. But the man I have as my life partner stepped up (just like Rori says they will), he filled up my time, he became much more attentive and loving and had a real, real desire to show me he was the one for me. There was one other man stepping up at the same time too. Ultimately it was J who claimed me and who I chose to spend the rest of my life with.

    Anyway, I get that it’s possible “most” men aren’t willing to fight for the woman they love (or say they love) but I’m so, so, so happy mine is. 🙂 Like I said, maybe I’m just lucky I didn’t lose him. But I personally think it’s more than that.

    It does bother me to hear people speaking out against cding on Rori’s blog (seems like there are better places for going against a particular coach than their own blog) but that’s my own trigger to work through. God knows I’ve spoken out against things she’s taught too…and I’ve done it right here. It’s a mirror that’s bothering me I guess. lol

    Much Love,

  77.  #77Liquid Light on October 3, 2013 at 10:13 am

    I dunno, everyone is different and its not one size fits all here. CDing is not the answer to everything in every situation. It’s great to do in the beginning but then after a while, it may or may not be serving you. It’s up to the individual woman to figure this out.

    We all have our patterns. CDing is nothing new for me. I naturally draw men to me and always seem to have a few of them in the wings. It’s always been that way for me so its really no big deal to CD. (I’m not bragging, that’s just been the norm for me. Its probably because I grew up with brothers and am very comfortable around men.)

    My challenge has been how to have a long-term relationship which grows and evolves over time. My last relationship was great but there were signs at the end that he wasn’t happy. I glossed them over. I did that in my previous relationship too. There are certain areas I need to focus on (cd’ing is not one of them) and I think they are about reading my partner, appreciating, paying attention to the relationship, communication. This is what I learned from my last two relationships but that’s just me. Everyone is different. Its not one size fits all.

  78.  #78Liquid Light on October 3, 2013 at 10:21 am

    @Mercedes There are plenty of other tools and wisdom that Rori offers besides CDing that I think are really valuable. In fact, I think she is a bit of a genius when it comes to male/female dynamics. So don’t get me wrong, I love what she has to say but not every tool is appropriate for every woman in every situation. You use what works and what you need. For example, I used her invitation tool last year in my last relationship and it was like a thunder bolt that hit me. It worked so well, it was absolutely AMAZING!!!!

  79.  #79Liquid Light on October 3, 2013 at 10:25 am

    Also here’s another thing I learned about CDing for me. I think it can be used strategically. It’s great to do in the beginning, and I think it can be useful to do if the guy starts dropping the ball. I did that last year when the relationship seemed to stall a bit and it was great. Once he picked up the ball again, I stopped doing it. But if he is consistently moving the relationship forward then I’m not sure its necessary. Just my 2 cents.

    PS: In reality though I don’t think it was CDing that helped as much as it was my expressing my feelings in a non-blaming way. That’s another one of Roris tools that I learned and that I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE!!!

  80.  #80Joy on October 3, 2013 at 10:30 am

    Thank you, ladies! I really appreciate the feedback. I am going with the positive feeling that I still get to practice with this guy, despite “leaning forward” with my one text message to him.

    I suppose slip-ups are part of this process when we are new to it, so I forgive myself, not beating myself up. He is still interested in seeing me. We are getting together this weekend.

    Yes, I wanted to show interest by texting him because I was afraid I would lose him if I did not at all reciprocate his reaching out and initiating. I was thinking of it like the waterwheel concept, like he has reached three times and me not at all.

    But Daria you are right, and this is a pattern that needs to be healed in me. Again, being new to this, it is hard to believe that guys will just hunt us down without any effort on our part.

    But FW you are right also, and I get to show him I’m interested by sharing feeling messages / poetry during our dates, then he gets to do the “boy” stuff of initiating calls / texts and setting up dates. This is where I make my effort, right?

    Funny, I actually am a reporter, been one for the past 13 years, so I can see how getting into these feeling messages, expressing them on a regular basis and seeing the world through that poetic lens will be a wonderful area of growth for me.

    Thanks again, gals!

  81.  #81Shina on October 3, 2013 at 10:36 am

    Mercedes #65:

    I understand what you’re saying to Liquid Light and where you’re coming from when you relate your situation with J and Elsie’s situation with CollegeCd and GS. I can totally see why you’re saying to CD and a little competition actually helped J step up to the plate — that works too. BUT if I remember your background with J, you guys WERE in a serious committed relationship before and then you separated and J eventually came back, and now you have the relationship you do.

    Your situation is different than what Elsie and Liquid Light is going through. For Elsie, she never had a serious relationship with CollegeCD for a period of time and then they broke-up, and now he’s come back into her life. This man has been showing up and was ready for committed serious gf/bf relationship from day one. For a man like this who is SURE from the get-go, you can’t CD around so much after he’s proclaimed his love for you and is behaving in all ways that he is a man who is solidly committed to you and is serious about marriage. For a man like GS or a man you had a previously serious relationship but he left for one reason or another (or even a man whose still in the relationship but isn’t “sure” about it and is questioning his feelings, etc.), than yes, for those you can still CD with other men even though he’s stating that he wants to be serious and wants a future with you. For man with a history like this, you have EVERY RIGHT to take your time and take longer than him to show you’re ready to get into a committed relationship again where you don’t date anyone else. He has to EARN that privilege and access to you, because he’s “lost” this opportunity before and now he has to work to reclaim your trust and prove that he’s not going to leave (or question) the relationship again.

    But for men like the ones that Liquid Light and Elsie is dating who IS showing up and they have no previous history of breaking-up with you, etc. CD’ing when they are showing you in ALL ways that he’s not going anywhere, dating other men on the side at this level is going to feel like ‘betrayal’ and that you’re a woman who doesn’t know what she wants and is not on the same page as him. I can guarantee you that if you meet a man who is READY for a committed relationship and he picks you, but you continue to CD other men at this stage, he will let you go. A man like this wants that trust and commitment back.

    As for Elsie’s CollegeCD and him encouraging Elsie to figure things out with GS is absolutely commendable and speaks volumes about his maturity and where he’s at emotionally in being able to handle the messiness of a relationship. BUT I would really really hesitate to encourage Elsie to bring in ANOTHER new 3rd man as a CD into this mix, it will complicate things even further and might push CollegeCD away. I say this because Elsie seems to mirror feelings of love and commitment to CollegeCD, and CollegeCD is obviously more than ready to be in a serious committed relationship headed towards marriage. Even though he might have been understanding that Elsie needs to figure out her past and resolve some stuff with GS (since they have history), I highly doubt he would be cool with her going out and meeting a NEW man and bonding emotionally/physically with him. We all have baggage from our past, but a man serious like CollegeCD would take a new 3rd CD in Elsie’s life as a sign that Elsie doesn’t love him the way he loves her, and she’s a woman who is not ready to settle down and commit the way he is (and that she has issues). And at that point, I would bet dollars to doughnuts that he himself will begin to question the relationship and will leave her — esp if he’s a self-respecting man who knows what he wants in life.

    From my experience and in my opinion, Elsie should focus on untangling and healing all the emotions she’s dealing with right now. Going out there and dating more people only applies if all of your CDs are flaky and none of them are showing-up as truly committed men. But when you already HAVE serious men in your life that you have to choose from, unless you absolutely do not love them and know you can’t marry any of them than absolutely go out there and CD some more! But if you are falling in love — than do not go out and complicate your feelings and situations with other men. And out of respect for the man you do love (and who loves you back), meeting/bonding/connecting with a new man on a romantic level will definitely feel/be a betrayal to the man who is showing-up.

    Again, I’m all for CD’ing by being open to life & everyone around you, and appreciating men. When Rori says you must CD for the rest of your life, I believe this is what she means and not meeting/dating men all the time.

  82.  #82Lemonbutter on October 3, 2013 at 10:37 am

    If you made mistakes with a guy, until he walked away, is it wrong to want him to come back so that you can try again…with opened eyes?

    I realise, since reading a lot of Rori’s writings, that I was doing the opposite of what she advises. I wasn’t expressing my feelings, I was blaming, I was critical, I was closed, I didn’t allow him to lead, I was too masculine.

  83.  #83Liquid Light on October 3, 2013 at 10:47 am

    @Shina 81 Damn, girl, you hit the nail on the head again! Very well said! You are so articulate! Love it! 🙂

  84.  #84Indigo on October 3, 2013 at 10:49 am

    Lemonbutter 82,

    I think it’s very natural – I have certainly felt like this my share of times. But I think you have to be careful that it may be a form of overfunctioning to try and “prove” yourself to a man.

    I feel that we are all imperfect, and we all make mistakes and do the wrong thing sometimes… for me, the work is in forgiving, loving and accepting myself and making peace with my mistakes, to remind myself that this is a journey and I am allowed to make mistakes as long as I am on my path and learning and healing, even if it’s in tiny steps. Not to go back and try to redo the past. This is my journey though, so I’m not sure if it is helpful to you.


  85.  #85Shina on October 3, 2013 at 10:52 am

    Liquid Light #74

    Girl you are doing awesome! Regarding how to deal with pressure from men, I believe I wrote all those posts under the “Boundary issue” article that Rori had weeks ago.

    Wow you are learning all of this CD stuff so quickly, because like what you said in #79 — CDing is a great tool to get your sanity back for a man who is starting to back away, turning flaky, questioning his feelings, has issues and cannot be there for you, etc. BUT if your man is doing none of these things, showing-up for you and relationship 100%, and both of you love each other, it is not appropriate to go out there and meet/bond emotionally/physically with other men romantically. He will lose his trust for you and NO self-respecting man who knows what he wants in life and had wanted it with you, will stick around.

    I’m so sorry I haven’t been around the blog that much! I will try to come here more often, it feels so wonderful to connect with you and all the Sirens here who are making such great progress in becoming the goddesses we all are 🙂

  86.  #86Shina on October 3, 2013 at 10:56 am

    Liquid Light #83

    Just saw this! Thank you 🙂

    But then again, great minds do think alike 😉 xoxo

  87.  #87Liquid Light on October 3, 2013 at 11:01 am

    Shina, hahahahaha! yeah, they do! If you were a guy, I would love to date you! LOL! you are awesome, girl! Keep it up! 🙂 xoxo

  88.  #88Lemonbutter on October 3, 2013 at 11:37 am

    Indigo no.84

    Thank you so much, that really is helpful.

    I do swing between trying to accept myself and my mistakes fully, then back to feeling anger towards him, towards myself. It’s a work in progress, but one I embrace and feel gratitude for.

    I think there is a part of me that wants to prove to him I’m not some heartless, drama-filled woman, but truly deep, emotional, warm and loving. I feel silly for that, but I can forgive myself for it. I certainly recognise that it could be a form of overfunctioning, something else I am ‘guilty’ of.

    Despite all this, I feel calm, as if my eyes are opening and I can see the doorway that leads to a new way of being and experiencing myself.

  89.  #89Liquid Light on October 3, 2013 at 11:52 am

    Lemonbutter, here’s my take. When he contacts you again (and I bet he will) be that person. He’ll get it and feel the difference. Its that simple. Resist the urge to explain, apologize, rehash, etc.

    And if he doesn’t contact you again, start CDing (well start doing that anyway) and you will find another man who WILL see and feel that from you v quickly. Just my 2 cents.

  90.  #90Shina on October 3, 2013 at 11:56 am

    Liquid Light #87:

    Damn your comment TOTALLY made my day! 🙂
    Love you back girl! xoxo

  91.  #91Mercedes on October 3, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    Shina: “This man has been showing up and was ready for committed serious gf/bf relationship from day one. For a man like this who is SURE from the get-go, you can’t CD around so much after he’s proclaimed his love for you and is behaving in all ways that he is a man who is solidly committed to you and is serious about marriage.”

    I believe you CAN.

    Let’s not forget about the other men I was dating. One in particular who had feelings for me. We were growing together as well. I continued to cd. He didn’t go anywhere. I ended that with him when I chose J. Men who love you or who are falling in love with you will work even harder, not run away, when you are dating other men as long as they know you are looking for the relationship of your dreams (not words, the real thing and you’re not willing to wait around while they take their time to figure it all out – ie propose and set a wedding date, ask you to move in, buy a house with you…whatever that looks like for you) and as long as they know you are not sleeping around. (J did say had I been sleeping with other men I would have never seen him again. Having GS stay the night – even if nothing happened – the way Elsie did would have pushed J away forever I think)

    Again, maybe I’m just lucky and maybe these men are not “normal” but I believe with all my heart and soul that you absolutely CAN cd even when a man looks really, really good on paper and with words and even with actions…until you actually have, in your grasp, exactly what you want. I also believe with everything in me that if you are torn between two men, cding is the only way for you, as a woman, to figure it all out in your heart. “Picking” one man, before you are ready and because all your friends tell you which one is the right one for you is, in my opinion, a recipe for regrets, resentment and potentially even affairs later in the relationship.

    Much Love,

  92.  #92Liquid Light on October 3, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    Shina 90 awhhh, you made my day too! big hugs, girl! 🙂

  93.  #93Daria on October 3, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    College CD has not asked Elsie to marry him…

  94.  #94Daria on October 3, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    I wonder if calling a man “pa” and being more smily in my (not in person) interactions with him

    makes me feel more attached, or like im ‘giving’

    instead of being more ‘dude-like’ and saying Yo yah man bro watever

    maybe this is not true for me

    sometimes i wonder if im saying Pa just to get a result etc

    and i get invested

    i feel afraid of getting invested

    when i didnt FM with him last interaction i didnt feel invested much aftr

    now i realize i had/have more of a ‘bored’/ meh attitude like Rori says will happen when a guy’s not offering enough

    maybe i can experiment with being warm /sexy/flirty and see if i get invested or not

    maybe its actually growth to do that, and maybe i still wont get invested


  95.  #95Maxine on October 3, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    Thank you! That resonates and I am healing the being present part of being really hyper sometimes as I have an overactive thyroid and I do lose concentration a lot while im with people. I think I fidget and maybe seem like Im elsewhere sometimes..BUT in the spirit of honesty and the new version of me these days I HAVE carefully explained how my symptoms can affect my behaviour..M tells me I dont listen well and I think its bc i find it hard to stay present.
    Well I am going to make it my Boys job tonight to do whar Femininewoman suggested which was to make up a visualisation of my heart open and radiating light and love to the world so that when I feel its hard I can use the tool tostay in the moment. I am also going to use the visualisation when Im feeling overwhelmed with all the awful judgement flying around in my world right now!

  96.  #96Maxine on October 3, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    My Boy has decided that this blog is a gift to my feminine siren way in the world..i feel lucky to have this safe place to feel my way around! And so I will use this place to work through some stuff..I stopped when M came back to me and I feel I shouldnt have laid it down

    Your post earlier around feeling hurt by his not noticing your hurting..I am going through this right now and I found him almost freezing over with lack of on the advice on a rori post I decided I MUST take ownership of all the crap going on in MY life at the moment..and Rori says its all down to us to not EXPECT him to show up for us in this way..instead be surprised and if and when he shows up for you it will be bc he HAS noticex and not bc YOU have tried to convince him to care..
    I did this last night after he dealt more pain onto my already hard situation and he showed NO care or comfort for me though I was visibly distressed.
    So I told him
    “I feel deeply upset and it feels unfair on you spending time around you this evening i will feel better taking time alone too so Ill take myself off to bed”
    His response was “Right”
    Then I considerately said “Night” and went
    It felt better to me to catch the train this morning instead of waking him for the lift to work he had offered the eve before..then I got a tx at work..”thought I was taking you”
    He leaned forward and asked sheepishly if i was ok
    I then apologised for interrupting on his eve with all “my life shit” and “have a great day!”
    By the time I got bk from work he suddenly got interested in my “shit” lol and I brushed it over saying Oh i will work it out!!

  97.  #97Millie on October 3, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    So My dating pool has dried up a bit….but I don’t feel dried up! I actually feel really good today. Leaning back does get easier the more you do it!! Yay- and I actually experience the absence of longing, which also feels really good–to not have that imaginary umbilical cord of energy from you to a man.

    If any of you remember Musician-I had a small obsession for a minute with him–well months later he still calls, even though I’ve tried to end it twice. I haven’t blatantly told him to pls. stop calling because we are somewhat in the same social circle and I don’t mind being friendly, but I’m totally over “it” and the idea of a fling. He bores me, sad to say.

    My birthday is next week and I made a reservation at this amazing french place and 22 people RSVP’d. I feel very loved and am looking so forward to that night! I may not have a man yet, but I have a lot of other things…and I feel peaceful and grateful today. 🙂 Much love sirens.

  98.  #98Turquoise on October 3, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    Wow, Shina, LL and Mercedes….. all really good points being made here. The one thing I would add… even if collegeCD does propose… I think Elsie deserves to take some time to just be. She’s going through or recently went through a divorce, had GS in her life a long time, that wasn’t going well and BAM she’s in a serious relationship with CollegeCD. That makes me feel like I cannot breathe. I feel smothered just thinking about that. But, I like space and distance and time. It’s always good in the beginning…. for most people, at the 6-12 month mark, some of that sparkle wears off. I agree with Mercedes, if she picks CollegeCD because it feels safe… what happens when that feels a little too safe and boring… and there is GS in the background, crying about how much he wants another chance? Will you still feel positive in your choice Elsie?

  99.  #99Daria on October 3, 2013 at 1:25 pm


    i was just on POF and i thought i saw SexyNeighbor!!!

    so i clicked on him and im lik OMG (and yes he’s in the same small town we live)

    and it loojs so much like him! but then i looked at his age, name, and how it said he has no kids and think it must be his younger brother or something


    they look alike lol

    i didnt know he had a younger brother, i feel a lil shocked

  100.  #100Liquid Light on October 3, 2013 at 1:29 pm

    I don’t think that’s all there is to CollegeCD. Elsie has stated that he’s fun, good looking, devoted, and that they laugh together all the time. That doesn’t sound too bad. On the other hand, GS is all over the map. There for her one minute, gone the next, treating her poorly, then suddenly devoted to her and crying and begging for her to come back. What drama! Do you really think that kind of behavior is really going to change and he’s really done a 180 and has become the perfect, devoted man?? That’s just pulling the wool over your eyes, crossing your fingers, and hoping and praying for a miracle!!!

    Elsie needs to ask herself why she is even giving this guy the time of day. He’s just not worth her time. That kind of guy is not going to be there for her in the long run and in the meantime, if she continues to give him her time and attention, the more worthy man, collegeCD, may just get fed up and move on. Just my 2 cents.

  101.  #101Turquoise on October 3, 2013 at 1:30 pm


    A guy I had a big crush on in college, has an identical twin, and I see him every week at little league football games. It’s the strangest feeling! He’s married with kids… sigh! lol

  102.  #102Turquoise on October 3, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    I agree LL… people don’t usually change all that much. Like Elsie said, it’s her oxytocin. I also wonder if a man who is giving you all he can, says he wants it all, would stick if she said she was going to date both. I’m thinking you may get the ultimatum talk. But who knows, maybe Mercedes is right about them not being scared of a little competition. I know a couple men I think would be that way.

  103.  #103Daria on October 3, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    that felt scary and exciting and I kinda remember he did say somethng about having a younger brother i think

  104.  #104Femininewoman on October 3, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    Turquoise that’s how I see it too. I also partially agree with Liquid Light. Then I think of how she was “craving” closeness when GS was distant. Now that she has the Collegecd closeness she is craving GS.

    1. We want what we can’t have then when we get it we

    2. Push it away

    Question is do we really want intimacy?

  105.  #105Daria on October 3, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    dude that feels triggering. if a guy gets fed up and moves on, he’s not a kinda guy I want. I want one who wants ME, not just any good enough woman

  106.  #106Femininewoman on October 3, 2013 at 1:40 pm

    I don’t believe a masculine is scared of competition. As a matter of fact I was thinking about one today and how he thrives on competition. He values what he works hard for.

  107.  #107Turquoise on October 3, 2013 at 1:43 pm

    I don’t know Daria… most men seem to want what they want, their way. their timing. at least the ones I meet. Which is why I’m probably single… because it seems selfish to me, so I keep moving.

  108.  #108Daria on October 3, 2013 at 1:44 pm

    i feel terrified a ‘good’ man would walk away (from me and from CDing and especially from me not wanting sexual exclusivity while CDing)

    thats my trigger


    and i just wanna believe guys are gonna want me for ME

    AWESOME guys who will work and WIN me!

    not just needy guys


    i WANT THIS!

  109.  #109Liquid Light on October 3, 2013 at 1:46 pm

    Exactly FW but that’s what all this work is about. I think this is exactly the reason that this stuff is coming up for Elsie. She NEEDS to work through this otherwise it will just keep coming up over and over again.

    I’m the same way, I want what I can’t have. I felt so secure in my last relationship, I knew I HAD him and he was so devoted to me, I felt totally safe. Of course, he didn’t like being taken for granted (who does) and ended it. Even though I don’t think we were right for each other, it was really hard and I learned a huge lesson from it. You can’t take people for granted.

    That was my very challenging lesson, this situation with Elsie is an opportunity for her to grow and move past her typical obstacles and behavior (explore her relationship with CollegeCD) or go back to her same ol patterns (with GS) That’s just the way I see it anyway.

  110.  #110Turquoise on October 3, 2013 at 1:46 pm

    Right FW….. I agree. We, meaning me… either don’t know what I really want, or don’t really want to “get it”. I just like the chase and drama too. Hmm…. maybe I’m a guy 😉

    I’m in an odd mood today, feel free to ignore me. I don’t mean to trigger anyone!

  111.  #111Mercedes on October 3, 2013 at 1:50 pm

    Thank you Turquoise. There are just so many things about Shina’s post that aren’t true based on MY experiences (not saying they aren’t true for others…they could very well be). I’ve been feeling triggered about it a lot today. I think because it tells us what we can and can’t do. Feels a little…demanding or something to me. So I’ll process what I disagree with here:

    “For man with a history like this, you have EVERY RIGHT to take your time and take longer than him to show you’re ready to get into a committed relationship again where you don’t date anyone else. ”

    To me, every woman, every single woman, has EVERY RIGHT to take this time and it has nothing to do with what the guy is like or what his history is or what he’s offering. I believe we all can and SHOULD do this no matter what.

    “CD’ing when they are showing you in ALL ways that he’s not going anywhere, dating other men on the side at this level is going to feel like ‘betrayal’ and that you’re a woman who doesn’t know what she wants and is not on the same page as him. I can guarantee you that if you meet a man who is READY for a committed relationship and he picks you, but you continue to CD other men at this stage, he will let you go.”

    This didn’t even come close to what happened to me. With more than one man. Really cool alpha men. Successful, handsome, wonderful men. They’re just not that scared of other men. They just aren’t. Not the ones I know anyway. They just did their best to make the time with me count…to make it special and fun. There were a few flakes but thank GOD they were flakes! I would hate to think I could have ended up with someone so insecure.

    “BUT I would really really hesitate to encourage Elsie to bring in ANOTHER new 3rd man as a CD into this mix, it will complicate things even further and might push CollegeCD away.”

    I don’t understand this at all. If she’s in love with two men, does that mean she will fall in love with three just because she’s brought another one in? I think it would actually take a TON of the pressure off if she were to date a man she isn’t in love with. It could just be fun and easy and no stress or tears or throwing up or feeling bad or trying to figure out who to choose. I think it would make things a whole lot LESS complicated.

    ” I highly doubt he would be cool with her going out and meeting a NEW man and bonding emotionally/physically with him.”

    It’s my understanding that the point of cding is so that we DON’T bond so quickly emotionally and physically. Advising her to date is not the same as advising her to bond with (fall in love with) yet another man and it is absolutely NOT the same thing as advising her to bond physically.

    “We all have baggage from our past, but a man serious like CollegeCD would take a new 3rd CD in Elsie’s life as a sign that Elsie doesn’t love him the way he loves her, and she’s a woman who is not ready to settle down and commit the way he is (and that she has issues). And at that point, I would bet dollars to doughnuts that he himself will begin to question the relationship and will leave her — esp if he’s a self-respecting man who knows what he wants in life.”

    I have no experience with this at all. I’m reading it as projecting onto men and advising based on how we think they are. I’ve tried this cding thing and it didn’t do anything like that for me. I think that’s the way women believe men are but I discovered (and so did Rori and others) that what we’ve been taught is not necessarily true about how men think, feel and act. This feels like they’ve been lumped into this bucket with a label that says “Insecure” on it.

    “Going out there and dating more people only applies if all of your CDs are flaky and none of them are showing-up as truly committed men.”

    This is insulting.

    “And out of respect for the man you do love (and who loves you back), meeting/bonding/connecting with a new man on a romantic level will definitely feel/be a betrayal to the man who is showing-up.”

    I don’t know about “definitely”. I don’t know how we can profess to know what a man will feel. And again, cding is not about bonding and connecting. Meeting, yes. Romantic? Not usually. Betrayal? Maybe if he’s very, very, very insecure.

    “Again, I’m all for CD’ing by being open to life & everyone around you, and appreciating men. When Rori says you must CD for the rest of your life, I believe this is what she means and not meeting/dating men all the time.”

    I agree.

    Shina: Did you used to post here as someone else? I’m curious how you know my story. I removed it all from my blog several months ago. It doesn’t really matter how, just curious.

    Much Love,

  112.  #112Lemonbutter on October 3, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    Liquid Light, I completely feel what you are saying. Thank you. I feel fear, anxiety, and doubt about him getting in touch, but I know I needn’t be concerned with that.

    If anything, I would welcome the opportunity to see how he responded to my emerging siren-self….but I’m not ready yet.

    Got to deal with the anger…justified or not…that I’m carrying around first.

  113.  #113Shar Lean Way Back on October 3, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    College CD may not have proposed but he is future talking and moving the relationship forward. This is acceptable accoridng to RR.

  114.  #114Mercedes on October 3, 2013 at 1:57 pm

    Daria: I believe you can have all of that. For J, the sex thing was a deal breaker. That doesn’t mean it is for all guys. I think you can have whatever you want because I believe we attract what we want. I attracted alpha men who weren’t afraid of my dating. I also attracted some who were afraid of it (probably because of my “conditioning” and believing what I thought men would be like and how I assumed they would feel and how I imagined they would act). In any case, we attract what we want and I believe you can have whatever you want and I believe you can have it and circular date too.

    Much Love,

  115.  #115Turquoise on October 3, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    Hmmmmm Mercedes…. all really good responses there. I did think about the projections of what we think they will think or say or feel or act…. I didn’t think about the insecure factor though. That is I’m sure, a big part of it. Even for us, to feel that if we are off dating several men, they will be off dating several women, so by spending all our free time together, we eliminate much of that possibility. Maybe that’s what it all comes down to… being really secure with who we are and the relationship we want… vs. the person we want. All so much good stuff to think about. Thank you ladies for all the commentary.

  116.  #116Mercedes on October 3, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    “Future talking” is just talking. GS is future talking too…

    Much Love,

  117.  #117Mercedes on October 3, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    Turquoise: “Even for us, to feel that if we are off dating several men, they will be off dating several women, so by spending all our free time together, we eliminate much of that possibility.”

    This is key, key, key! Not just about being insecure but it’s also about control. If we can be with them all the time, we control who they see and where they go and we control what they know about us (where we go, etc) and we control then (in our minds), WHEN the relationship will move forward. When that control does nothing to get a ring on our finger or a house in our name or a date to move in or whatever…those insecurities and control issues come out even stronger and we then wonder…”Everything was going so well. I don’t understand why he left me”. When in reality, had we been dating and having fun, those who drop off have pretty much zero affect on us and those who aren’t going to drop off move forward a lot closer to our timeline. 🙂

    Much Love,

  118.  #118Sophie on October 3, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    I would want to buy my time and not jump in too soon – I have been burned after the three month mark when at the three month mark everything has seemed wonderful – I feel very tentative these days about diving in too soon as I have bought in to situations that have turned out remarkably differently with time – holding something back and getting to know someone more slowly – really really slowly feels better to me

    Even with the decision I have made to have CDB live with me I feel emotionally tentative and that feels really good for me – there is nothing more important to me than me and that the structure of my life feels good to me and nothing is going to make me lose that

    But..thus far it feels really good to have him here… this level of stability, warmth and harmony feels refreshing and comfortable and cosy

    I tend to trigger myself more than am triggered by him

    (((Indigo))) My heart goes with you x I really struggle with my sensitivity and much as I am on a pathway toward accepting it and loving it I struggle and it does not feel easy to be me and I’m sure it is not easy to be with me – that’s not a criticism of myself more a part of my coming to terms – when I’m not struggling with the intensity of my emotions (which often hit me sideways) I struggle with physical sensitivity – not being able to sleep etc – I aim for balance but am so easily upended annnd so sensitive to stimulants and addictions – I am not ever going to give up trying to achieve the balance I desire and seeking the blessings in the sensitivity

    I know sensitivity shows up in many different ways and we are all unique but you are not alone 🙂 xx

  119.  #119Liquid Light on October 3, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    Yes, but his actions are there too – taking her out, being there for her, being consistent. And actions speak louder than words. Let’s give these guys some credit and trust them and ourselves. If their actions are communicating caring, love, commitment then why doubt it? wow, you seem to be really ready to assume the worst! If I were a guy, that would not feel good to me. Now I see why guys react the way they do to me sometimes. I am always skeptical when they come on strong. No one likes to be doubted and treated with skepticism. Lighten up and just be, girl, – that’s me talking to myself!

  120.  #120Daria on October 3, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    Turqoise – hmm, shrug … i really don’t know!

    Rori says otherwise so I am gonna stick with trying out her ideas since they’ve worked – so shockingly – for me in so many other ways

  121.  #121Daria on October 3, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    Dating is not the same as asking for marriage

    theres so many guys who are great at dating, and so many guys one can date!

    marriage/lifetime commitment is a whole different ballgame

    to me Rori’s stuff is about not cutting off men until That ballgame is playing

  122.  #122Daria on October 3, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    Thanks Mercedes! yah! I like that perspective! I can see how my energy plays the huge part in what I attract

  123.  #123Daria on October 3, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    besides J just Said that he wouldn’t have been ok with it, maybe if in the situation he would have. and like you said, that wasn’t something you were interested in creating or attracting, so it was kinda irrelevant

  124.  #124Mercedes on October 3, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    Ummm….GS just took her out to an amazing restaurant, told her he’s ready to tell everyone about them, danced all night with her, took her home and spent the evening showing her affection and love. Seems to me both guys are stepping up and I see no reason at all that after a few months, she should have to pick one. That just seems very silly to me…like high school dating. It feels like rushing things and denying feelings and forcing oneself to move on. None of those things make me smile.

    Dates, dancing, laughing, enjoying each other’s company…all of that sounds amazing. I think it can be amazing with more than one man until a woman is ready to move forward with one. Tears and vomit do not suggest “I’m ready to move forward with just one” to me. But that’s just me. I see things differently than a lot of other women here do. I’ve known this for a very, very long time.

    “A week and a half ago, GS and I went out. It was awesome. I got stunning flowers. I was taken to the hottest Italian restaurant in the city. We ended up drinking and dancing all night. He and I were very drunk and he couldnt drive home, so he stayed the night. In the morning, we woke up togehter. And that was when the crying started for both of us. We kissed, but we did nothing else.”

    None of that says “I’m ready to commit to a different man than the one I’m talking about here”. None of it.

    Much Love,

  125.  #125Mercedes on October 3, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    Daria: EXACTLY! J “says” he wouldn’t have been okay with it. My heart tells me J and I were meant to be together and we would have made it through anything. If his love was deep enough (and I think it was and still is), I believe we would have gotten past it. BUT…I also believe, knowing him the way I do, it would have hurt him deeply so I’m glad it didn’t come to that.

    Much Love,

  126.  #126Mercedes on October 3, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    “GS is now telling me that he wants to marry me, have children with me, put a down payment on a house right now. He is ready to tell anyone and everyone about us. He is so handsome and smart and amazing.”

    Yup…sounds like “never date this man again” to me. lol

  127.  #127Mercedes on October 3, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    “I have what I’ve always wanted. What all of us go after and cherish and fight for and long for. And here I am….confused. I’m insane.”

    And here we are, on Rori’s blog, saying “Don’t circular date them both until you’re ready and sure. Choose one and do it now”.

    I’m confused too.

  128.  #128Mercedes on October 3, 2013 at 2:36 pm

    Don’t get me wrong. I think CollegeCD has some amazing qualities too. Nothing wrong with that man AT ALL. Between the two of them and maybe one or two more, I think life could be a lot of fun until she falls absolutely head over heels for someone and knows, with everything in her being, that she has found the man she is meant to be with forever. No fear, no confusion, no oxyc for some other man (screams “future affair!!!!!!!” to me) no worries. Just love. Lots and lots of love.

    It sounds sooooo beautiful to me!

  129.  #129Liquid Light on October 3, 2013 at 2:37 pm

    So its OK that he did that to you but its not OK for you to do that to him? Because it would have hurt him too deeply? Really? What about you, didn’t it hurt you deeply too? But somehow that’s not as important…do you see how you devalue yourself by saying that? I’m not saying that’s the way you see yourself now but I have a feeling that had everything to do with why that happened in the first phase of your relationship…

    So it really doesn’t matter if you are CDing or not, if you are wearing red or not, if you are dancing the mambo or not, what matters is how much you value yourself. That’s it, that’s the ONLY thing that really matters.

  130.  #130Mercedes on October 3, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    LL: He didn’t say it wasn’t okay for me. He said it was a deal breaker. When he did it, it was a deal breaker for me too. I left. I thought I left forever. Things changed, but I was done. Just as he says he would have been done (and remember, this was almost a year later. Me doing it too would have been out of spite, nothing else).

    There was no devaluing of me. I know I could have done. If I had, I know that I would have risked losing him. Same way he knew that when he did it, he risked losing me. Goes both ways. It absolutely was just as important when he did it. When we got back together, he was not that same person. Not at all.

    Much Love,

  131.  #131Mercedes on October 3, 2013 at 2:44 pm

    “So its OK that he did that to you but its not OK for you to do that to him? Because it would have hurt him too deeply? Really? What about you, didn’t it hurt you deeply too?”

    Where did this come from though? Nobody said it was ok for him to do it to me. And I’ve been very, very open about how deeply it hurt me. I’ve been open with that here on the blog (so I’m surprised you would even have to ask) and I was very, very, very open with HIM about it. But just because I was hurt to my core doesn’t mean it would be okay for me to hurt him to his core too. What kind of relationship would that be? If you do it then I do it too? How about “Let’s work through this and neither of us will ever hurt each other again”?

    Yes. I could have slept with other men and risked losing J forever just like he did with me. What purpose would that serve?

    Much Love,

  132.  #132Mercedes on October 3, 2013 at 2:52 pm

    “I’m not saying that’s the way you see yourself now but I have a feeling that had everything to do with why that happened in the first phase of your relationship…”

    That’s really, really projecting. I wonder why you would jump to that conclusion. I know what the issues were in the beginning. We (he and I) weren’t ready for what we thought we were supposed to be. We fought it and fought it and fought it and then when we decided to label it and call it a “relationship”, we failed miserably at it. Really bad. It wasn’t just the cheating. There was SOOOOOO much wrong before that. The cheating was a symptom of everything else that was broken. Could have been a “devalue” problem but I would suspect it had a LOT more to do with two people who had no idea how to turn a friendship into a love affair.

    Much Love,

  133.  #133Liquid Light on October 3, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    Well you took him back after it happened so that’s kind of making it OK. I know, he proved himself to you and won your trust back and that’s cool. It sounds like you have a great relationship but for many people, me included, this really would be a deal breaker. Period.

    PS: OK I’m saying that now but that’s never happened to me so who knows really…but it would be very, very hard for me to ever trust that person again.

  134.  #134Mercedes on October 3, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    LL: It was horribly hard to trust again. Took years to fully trust. It was very, very hard. He did all he could to show me he was different and I had to decide if I could believe that or not. It was the hardest thing I’ve ever done.

    BUT…taking him back isn’t making it okay. He and I both know that. It is putting in our past when we were different people but it absolutely isn’t making it okay. Any couple who has been through counseling for this sort of thing will be able to tell you that’s one of the things they learned. And to be honest, it’s not an easy thing to learn. It takes a ton of work on both sides and even I would probably never give advice to any woman that she should stay after cheating. I would tell her what happened in my situation, but I would advise her to leave. Then, if things happen and change over time, I have no advice. But if it happens to anyone, I say get out…and mean it. I wouldn’t have taken J back sooner than I did. It was eight months or so before I went on a date with him. It was much longer after that before we were together. And even longer before the pain left my heart.

    No…it isn’t okay…it is in the past.

    Much Love,

  135.  #135Liquid Light on October 3, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    WEll at the risk of stating the obvious…in that situation then I would say of course you should CD, and CD for a good long while until that person absolutely proves that he is worthy of your trust again. But that is an entirely diff situation then with Elsie. Here she’s got a good man (or seems to be so far and his behavior is consistent and congruent with that) and another man who is inconsistent, has treated her poorly in the past, has never had a good relationship and still she is torn??? What??? That’s the problem, not whether or not she is CDing or whom she is CDing with etc.

  136.  #136Liquid Light on October 3, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    At the risk of being totally pounced on here, my guess is that GS is just loving the thrill of reeling her back in. It’s exciting and fun but as soon as he’s got her back, I bet you anything he will go back to his old ways and start being the lousy boyfriend that he was at first. He’ll start treating her poorly again, neglecting her, being totally selfish and all about himself. But I hope she doesn’t give him that chance!

  137.  #137Turquoise on October 3, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    Oh Mercedes. I really admire how you can put yourself out there on the blog and openly share about the pain in your past. To me that feels like opening old wounds, reliving old pain. When I think about old pain in my marriage, I feel it in my core. While C and are are not a couple, we do spend a lot of time together with our girls. I forgave him for pain he caused, he forgave me. It’s all in the past. If we lived in the past, my present and future would continue to be that deep pain. Instead, we have a good friendship, our girls have parents who put them first. Our family is not shredded. It still hurts sometimes though to think about it all. Big hugs!!!

  138.  #138Turquoise on October 3, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    Daria, I totally think you’ll get the right guy for you. You know what you want and I totally don’t see you settling for less. I may be projecting what I think on the men I meet… They just do seem selfish and want things their way. I’m sure they are not all like that. I LOVE what you said about CDing until the ball game starts. OMG, somehow that should be a slogan or on a shirt or something!

    Mercedes, you are 100% right about the control thing. I remember Mr. Conversation telling me, he’d do what he wanted, I do what I want and we ‘d be cool. We were talking about sexual exclusivity… I was totally trying to control the situation, with someone I wasn’t even serious with. Now that I don’t want a serious romantic future with him, I’m saying you do what you want… I’ll do what I want… And everything will be cool!

    The funny thing is, he openly airs he hates the thought of me with another guy. He said he wants me to feel jealous when he talks about other women. We are flirty friends, I just know he’s not my one, so I have no expectation. This is good practice for me.

    I got asked to a hockey game tonight. Would have been fun, but too last minute. It’s ok though, still feels good to be asked !

  139.  #139Daria on October 3, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    Turqoise – hehe I feel good youliked hte ball game thing! score! lol

    and thank you for encouraging me in my desire

  140.  #140Daria on October 3, 2013 at 4:44 pm

    Liquid Light – i just read from the past thread… I see that the “clean” was talking about STD’s… I get it now

    I was feeling concerned… definitely would have been happy to see a woman who had meant it otherwise seek insight and healing and, yes with such a powerful concern, the help of a coach…

    I feel frustrated since I was attempting to not give advice.. saying *I* would talk to someone … and I see how that could still come off adivicey…

    the truth is I WOULD!

    I just talked to Rori right right now and have also talked to Dominique in the past about sexual issues

    I don’t know that everyone here knows that they can actually be reached…

    So i’ve made a habit lately to write multiple posts, not just directed to you, about how to reach them

  141.  #141Daria on October 3, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    I think all women and definitely all of us here would benefit from working with a coach – we’re writing on a coach’s blog after all!

    Me personally, soon as I cash this $ in, am signing up for the Love Forever series if it’s still available

    I wish I was having coaching regularly so so much!

    This blog is like a no cost alternative/adjunct for me

  142.  #142Liquid Light on October 3, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    Daria, thanks, but I really don’t understand where you are coming from. You think I should see a coach because I am concerned about STDs??? Is that right?

  143.  #143Liquid Light on October 3, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    Oh now I see what you meant…nevermind.

    I don’t think I need a coach right now. It’s a luxury I can’t afford (just moved) but also things are going pretty darn well for me…But several months ago, I def coulda used one and who knows, maybe several months from now, i will again!

  144.  #144Daria on October 3, 2013 at 5:20 pm

    hey US Sirens , do you know if foodstamps went out this month? (gov shutdown)

  145.  #145Memulo on October 3, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    He called to ask why I called him. We talked for an hour. About different things, books, movies, children. Both times he sounds like we just were in touch yesterday and this year apart didn’t happen. Still didn’t ask me out

  146.  #146Memulo on October 3, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    Sorry Daria, I don’t know

  147.  #147Daria on October 3, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    Liquid Light – i see u! thanks for responding I feel heard…

  148.  #148Daria on October 3, 2013 at 6:09 pm


  149.  #149Daria on October 3, 2013 at 6:10 pm

    i thnk they did or more people would be posting on facebokk… wow i just NOW thought of googling it lol

    i feel concerned about my Godkids not having $ for food this month

  150.  #150Daria on October 3, 2013 at 6:14 pm

    k apparntly its not happening so that kinda kills my urge to try to find a way to send them money

    i feel embarassed at my doing for other people to raise my self esteem/make myself feel important

    ouch that felt bad to read

    i dotn want to judge myself


  151.  #151emily on October 3, 2013 at 7:13 pm

    What i dont get is if a guy flirts with you and yo flirt back then why dosent ask you out?Or when will he?

  152.  #152Memulo on October 3, 2013 at 8:42 pm

    Thank you Daria, I am not really complaining, funny how it goes. I yelled at him when he called

  153.  #153Joy on October 3, 2013 at 8:42 pm

    What do you gals think of CDing a guy whose profile says “not looking for a relationship or commitment of any kind”?

    Found a hot one and he’s educated. I’m basically just looking to round up my third CD because I’m starting to get hung up on one of the other ones.

    However, I AM looking to CD toward marriage (the ballgame!). Part of me thinks that when a guy meets the right girl, all the intentions of “keeping it casual” often fly out the window and he becomes marriage minded anyway. But I also know it’s important to believe what a guy says.

    What say you sirens?

  154.  #154Emerson on October 3, 2013 at 9:00 pm

    I spent the day with friends and applying for new jobs. I feel good and I feel like I need to take control of my life.

    I still miss having that “someone” on my life ….I start feeling so sad and lonely…even with friend around… I need hugs and kisses…

  155.  #155Joy on October 3, 2013 at 9:20 pm

    Hi Emerson,

    I feel weird responding / offering input because I am so new at this and don’t want to offend anyone. But it sounds like you are wanting to rack up some dates?

    Are you putting yourself “out there” to meet new CDs? Practicing the five-second eye contact / smile?

  156.  #156Emerson on October 3, 2013 at 9:30 pm

    Ah ….frustrated…i am having to remind myself to be positive…

  157.  #157Emerson on October 3, 2013 at 9:32 pm

    Hi Joy! It feels nice to read your reply!
    Ah yes 5 sec smile,,, so hard for me!
    Thanks for the reminder 🙂

  158.  #158Indigo on October 3, 2013 at 9:46 pm


    Thank you, I so enjoy your posts, and it feels really good to read that I am not alone. It feels comforting to read I am not alone in the physical sensitivity too… I have achieved a fair amount of balance over time with my sleep and my eating, but on extreme days, which certainly do happen, my sensitivity plays havoc with these, usually in not being able to eat or sleep. And then when I start to *feel better*, I overeat and oversleep.

    The main physical way it shows up for me when I am feeling the extremes of sadness or grief, or frustration, or anxiety is in my heart. I get this clawing feeling in my heart and my whole chest becomes very tight. I get extremely distracted and have to take time out. It can be very distressing. But the duration of these are getting less, and, tiny bit by tiny bit, easier to deal with. I believe it also has to do with my fear, which are magnified a bit by my sensitivity.

    I intend to heal this 🙂

    I am glad you are feeling cosy and stable. How wonderful.

    Thanks for the chance to express myself a bit more.


  159.  #159Tereana on October 3, 2013 at 11:09 pm

    Hi Elsie!

    Ok, I jumped onto this post and the first thing I did was read your post. What an amazing story!

    And I know a lot of women have weighed in it there was something that jumped out at me: it was when you said that collegeCD made you “the offer.” And what you said next was *not* what I was expecting.

    What I’m wondering is, how is it an “offer” to let you date another man – even request that you do? That is your right to do anyway. As long as he has not claimed you, he can’t “offer” that to you. That is already yours.

    If he was going to make an “offer,” I would think that he would realize that you are the woman he wants, that he doesn’t even want to risk you being with another man, and he would produce a ring and “offer” to MARRY you. Not let you date somebody else.

    Something about the way it all happened makes me feel squirmy and like he’s manipulated you into choosing him, knowing you would, even though you have stronger feelings for another man. And maybe he really does want you. But at this point, I don’t think you can really commit to him unless or until he makes up his mind and comes right out and makes the commitment himself. Making you “choose” him just absolves him of the responsibility…

    That said, you must be feeling so overwhelmed (in a good way) with all this positive attention! It is so great that both of these men are thinking about you so deeply. You have every right to live “in between” right now… ((Elsie))

  160.  #160Tereana on October 3, 2013 at 11:19 pm

    Ok. Weird. When I look at my budget, at my bank account, and think about what I need right now, I’m coming up pretty short. But I’m also going with the idea that if I really needed it, I would have it. And I’m searching for ways in which I’m not really taking responsibility and it’s helping me find other ways to “step up” and do what I can to change things!

    That’s not weird. What’s weird is, even with that gap in terms of what I think I need, a lot of awesome things are coming along! People are being kind to me. I’ve met some good job leads, and even got some responses. People are taking notice of me for what I’m really good at (fashion styling!) and I have a voice and I feel like I’m being heard. This is really awesome!!

    Meanwhile a random massage client walked in today and I booked a massage for him next week! (Yes, a man. But it’s been slow. I decided I could trust him and I would take the business)

    Wow, it’s been a good day. And tomorrow I have a collaborative talk on creating a class combining spirituality and bodywork. It feels really good to be involved. It feels liked life is turning on!!

    And I know men are noticing. They are being even more attracted to me and even telling me that I seem happier. It’s a really good response.

    I’m not even as worried about the money anymore. I am trusting myself….

  161.  #161Syreena on October 4, 2013 at 2:13 am

    Joy he is telling you he wants sex without relationship or commitiment. So why would you want to go on a date with him if what you want is a realtionship leading to marraige and comittiment?

    Do you think he would be a match for what you are looking for? Or do you think he would be a better match for a woman who wants casual sex NSA without being in a realtionship? And you would be better dating men who are looking for a realtionship leading towards marriage?

    Are you hoping to change his mind?

  162.  #162Mercedes on October 4, 2013 at 6:22 am

    Turquoise: Thank you so much! And you are right…if we live in the past, we can live in that pain forever. I don’t think J and I would have lasted this long if we lived life in the past. The present (with occasional glances toward the future) is much more along the lines of how we want to live.

    Talking about it doesn’t hurt so much anymore (sometimes I guess it does a little bit)…mostly it wears me out because almost every time it happens the judgments start coming out and I start defending. My story isn’t out there to make me defensive…it’s there in the hopes that it can help someone else. I know I’m not the first person to be cheated on and I know J and I are not the first couple to decide to try to overcome it. Now that we’re in a good place, I believe there are others in this world who can benefit from my words. It is exhausting sometimes though. But then I look at what I have…and I smile because I feel like the luckiest girl on the planet.

    Thank you again…it feels really good to have my presence appreciated.

    Much Love,

  163.  #163Mercedes on October 4, 2013 at 6:33 am

    LL: Maybe you are right. Maybe women should not circular date unless they are only dating men who aren’t good enough for them. I don’t know. Personally, I think women should cd until they have the relationship they want (not just words but actually have it) but that’s just how I feel.

    I can appreciate that you feel it is time for Elsie to choose one man and move forward with him. I can also appreciate that some people have been able to jump into an exclusive relationship right away and turn out just fine. Not how I would handle it for my own life but that doesn’t make what Rori and I talk about the truth or the best way…it’s just our experiences and our advice. Not something that is necessarily the right way to do things.

    There are all sorts of ways to go about life and relationships. I just know for me, not necessarily for anyone else, cding helped me keep my head and heart in check where J was concerned and it helped me not jump quickly into any relationship with any man until I knew, without a doubt, that I was ready. Others might not need that.

    Much Love,

  164.  #164Femininewoman on October 4, 2013 at 6:38 am

    Joy you were not clear on whether he invited you on a date or if you are just debating about sending him a message on the dating site. I believe context is important. I am sensing some innocuous assumptions/expectations already. For all you know this could be a gay guy looking for someone he can just hang out with to kill his boredom and have some fun. Or maybe just cd where he has a different girl for each day. My point is dating is about fun for now. He is a stranger.

  165.  #165Femininewoman on October 4, 2013 at 6:40 am

    Interesting foodstamp comment. Really sad how the action has sweeping effects on families.

  166.  #166Femininewoman on October 4, 2013 at 6:54 am

    Even if GS promised the sun, the moon and the stars, he was the one who only about 3 months ago was pulling away and saying he is not good at relationships. He was living with a woman and cleaning up a mess at home. Hiding the relationship with Elsie and concerned about other people seeing him holding her in public. He shows back up now that he knows she is stable with an interested suitor and in what?? 3 conversations have her second-guessing herself. Seems like someone needs to bring things back to herself and ask “why am I here”, “what does this say about me”?

    When/if GS wins he sure will kick back and think “this was easy” – is my guess.

  167.  #167Mercedes on October 4, 2013 at 7:44 am

    FW: I agree with the self check thought. I think she should believe his intentions (especially since she loves him so much) but, she might want to take this decision slowly. I know I would.

    Much Love,

  168.  #168Shar Lean Way Back on October 4, 2013 at 8:39 am

    Daria, did you know you can email RR’s assistant and get free coaching with her trainees?

  169.  #169Shina on October 4, 2013 at 8:50 am


    First of all, I want to thank you for all of your thoughts on what I posted.

    I DO want to put this out there, we are in a discussion over the internet and as a result, it is SO EASY to take what the other said/meant the wrong way and to project your own stuff onto it.

    I want to make this clear, whatever I wrote is NOT meant to be demanding, controlling, etc. It is in my nature and personality to speak and write in a definitive way, and in no way am I saying that what I wrote is the Law of Life, and it MUST be that way no matter what. Life and relationships, as you must know, is MESSY and organic. I’m saying this in reference to your comment in #111 when you said:

    “….There are just so many things in Shina’s post that aren’t true based on MY experiences…..I think because it tells us what we can and can’t do. Feels a little….demanding or something to me.”

    What I don’t want my post to be “I said this” and “you said that” type discussion, so I won’t dissect and go point by point to clarify what you’ve written about my post(s).

    Where I’m coming from is this. Men and women are a little different when it comes to love. Women, when we are in love and have all these warm feelings wash over us, we are ready to “nest” — serious commitment, joining our lives with our man, and marriage feels like the natural progression for us. For men, when they are in love it does not also mean that they are ready to take the relationship to the next level (i.e. marriage). I don’t know why, but for men being in love with you and being ready to get married are two different things. They don’t mind living together and sharing a life together (cohabitation), but taking it to the next level like marriage is something else entirely. Something has to “click” for them inside, an internal shift within happens (that no one can force) that signals to them that they are “ready” for marriage and that level of commitment. I’m not sure what the technical term for this is called, but the best illustration I can think of at the moment is what Justin Timberlake’s grandmother said about his marriage to Jessica Biel. She said that Justin truly loved Jessica but he just wasn’t ready for marriage yet (before they broke-up), but when he finally proposed it was because it was “his time,” and he was now ready internally to make that level of commitment.

    The reason why I mentioned the above is there are some men who just get to this point in their lives all on their own (without a woman in the picture) — they are commitment ready men. They know what they want in life, they are ready to settle down and share their life with a woman, and they want marriage. When these types of men meet a woman they fall in love with, they will behave in ways that are just naturally relationship oriented and will steadily move the relationship forward towards marriage — without a lot of drama or internal obstacles getting in the way.
    It is with THESE types of men that I was referring to when I said that they might’ve been cool with you CDing in the beginning, but once the relationship has progressed forward and they’ve put all their cards on the table, they’ve proclaim their love for you, and are showing up 100% physically, emotionally, etc. that they are committed to you and want to get married to you — if you continue to see other men on the side, he will feel hurt and his trust will get broken. Men at this level/stage of commitment do NOT want to share their women.

    The more a man commits to a woman and he is behaving in solid ways that his behavior matches his feelings, they want to “claim” you and make sure no other man has access to you the way he does. And as a woman this feels great, because when a man is this committed it is so easy to ask/negotiate for what you want/need and have it met because he will want to do anything to make you happy and make you HIS woman.

    Evan Marc Katz talks about this in his work (relationship coach who is also highly recommended by Rori). He talks about watching/measuring a man in how he behaves towards you in order for a woman to know whether he is commitment ready or not, and if he is, to give him a chance. I won’t get into the details, but one of the tenants of his work and his take on relationships as a man, is that when a man is showing you 100% that he loves you and is committed to you, that as a woman there comes a point where you’re just going to have to take a chance and TRUST his love & commitment to you and give the relationship a chance. In his work, taking that “chance” is becoming boyfriend-girlfriend relationship.

    I believe CDing is a great tool, and it works wonders for many situations where the man won’t step up to the plate, etc. But it is just a tool. I do not believe CDing is the absolute cure-all for EVERYTHING and I do not agree with using CDing as the bandaid for Every. Single. situation. Much can be said for being on your own and having time to just date yourself to heal and discover what your heart desires. And if you haven’t had the time to figure your own sh*t out and to learn how to fill yourself up with love on your own, if you’re in a complicated/messy situation like Elsie with two different men, bringing in a new man could just exacerbate the problem. If you’re confused and lost, I believe you must go within FIRST and discover your own answers — no one outside of you can give you the answer to your life. Perhaps CDing more might be just what Elsie needs. BUT the difference is, I do not agree with IMMEDIATELY jumping into a new relationship as the solution. If a woman in her type of situation first takes some time for herself ON HER OWN and she’s figured some things out/healed, and THEN she comes to the conclusion that going out there and meeting other men is her answer, then doing so will help her immensely. But if she hasn’t done the internal work first and immediately goes out and jumps into another relationship, and she finds she’s developed feelings for this third man it could just add more to her confusion and feeling lost — this is what I’m talking about.

    I want to make this clear again, we ALL are here to find our way and figure out what works for us. There is no ONE way. Not even Rori’s tools and work. What works for you might not work for other women, and what works for me might not work for other women either. Where I stand is this, women who come to this blog want a loving committed relationship — and what that looks like/feels/etc. is different for everyone. We are all here to share our stories, feelings, and also share to with each other our points of view and opinions. I am simply sharing mine and my own experiences.

  170.  #170Shina on October 4, 2013 at 8:51 am

    Mercedes #111:

    Oh and before I forget, I have been following Rori since 2006. I forget exactly when she put up this blog but I’ve been a reader ever since it’s first launch. I’ve never really posted comments in the years past (maybe once or twice and I’ve always used “Shina” as my name) and I do remember you, Daria, Alias Girl (and others I can’t remember) posting on here back in the day. I remember bits and pieces of your story with J because at the time I could relate to your pain because I was going through something similar in my life.

  171.  #171Mercedes on October 4, 2013 at 9:17 am

    Shina: Thank you. I disagree with your assessment of men in general but that’s okay. The men in your life may be ones that fit the mold you have for them above…the ones in mine fit the one I have. People are different. Maybe it’s different parts of the world, maybe it’s the way we were raised, maybe it is just perception or even projection.

    I personally had a man in my life who wanted me in a real, committed relationship (the one I had wanted with him in the past), he was ready, was offering me it all…at that time, I was dating other men. He hated it. Nothing in him wanted to share me. I wasn’t ready to commit again. He hung in there and ending up giving me everything I could ever dream of.

    That probably doesn’t happen for everyone. It did for me. Rori has a similar story (her’s is of a man getting ready to commit very quickly). Others that are here or who have been here have those experiences as well. We have real life examples of men who are ready to commit but do not run away when the woman is cding. It happens. I understand that it hasn’t happen to you and that, based on how you see men (as stated in your comment above), you would not be able to believe it can happen but it does. It’s okay with me that you don’t think it could happen for Elsie. I do. It’s okay with me that we disagree on this. We have our own experiences to draw on.

    On a side note, I’m very familiar with Evan. I’m not a fan.

    Much Love,

  172.  #172Liquid Light on October 4, 2013 at 10:24 am

    Shina, once again, I’m right there with you. I love what you wrote and it totally resonates with me. So thanks again, girl, you rock it!!!!

    What I especially appreciate is the shift that I think needs to take place for me. I always doubt when a suitor comes on too strong and my fear bubbles up. I come up with all sorts of reasons why I mistrust them (they are players, they are devious, etc. etc.) I’d really like to just be trusting and open and not doubtful. Your post will help me to do this…Thank you!!! 🙂 xoxo LL

    PS: I need to go find that previous post about pressure…going to do that today.

  173.  #173Liquid Light on October 4, 2013 at 10:32 am

    Mercedes, sorry, I didn’t mean to rehash this stuff…

  174.  #174Liquid Light on October 4, 2013 at 11:01 am

    FW 165 Bingo, this is exactly what I was trying to get at. If I were Elise and I wanted to give GS a chance (setting aside the fact that just wanting to give someone a chance with that kind of track record and the kind of pain he’s put me through), I would take what he’s said recently with a grain of salt AND sit back and watch his behavior over time. I would let him, no make him, prove that he is indeed a changed man and is worthy of me. This can only happen over time, lots of time. He would need to prove his feelings to me without a shadow of a doubt and consistently be the kind of devoted, caring, loving man that he proclaims to be. Being like this consistently over time is the key. Keep in mind, he has NO TRACK RECORD here for being able to do this and that’s a big concern. So yeah, he would need to work very hard to prove that he somehow saw the light and is ready to do the hard work necessary to have a serious, committed relationship.

  175.  #175Femininewoman on October 4, 2013 at 11:05 am

    Shina I am loving your comments. I do believe you express my understanding of Rori’s work in your last para of 168.

  176.  #176Turquoise on October 4, 2013 at 11:11 am

    I’m wondering where Elsie is…. and what she feels about all these comments/thoughts.

  177.  #177Femininewoman on October 4, 2013 at 11:16 am

    You can’t “no make him” do anything. he has to want to and choose to. Regardless of his track record with you. Relationships are voluntary. I also believe that he can’t remove your doubts no matter what he does. The choice is the woman’s. She has to choose trust. Thinking of relationship as hard work and serious turns me off.

    I know I would give myself the time and space to feel my gut. I wouldn’t be rushing in. Neither would I allow his intensity to convince me. A man will say whatever he feels it takes in the moment to convince a woman. His sense of urgency would not be my issue.

    I also believe Elsie mentioned that he slept over. That I believe is the crux of the matter. I just have to look at a particular guy’s picture on FB and I start to feel all kinds of things. My question is why would you have an ex sleep over when in a committed relationship? Even if living in Timbuctu, there are taxis that will go anywhere. Also this man who couldn’t come over in the past now have the time and space to be sleeping over? No wonder her body was screaming out to be careful with the vomiting etc.

  178.  #178Femininewoman on October 4, 2013 at 11:17 am

    So am I too Turquoise but she has not been regular recently. Only seem to pop in when there are questions.

  179.  #179Emerson on October 4, 2013 at 11:25 am

    Tereana I am also shifting some things in my budget and saving with an intentional plan in mind.
    I’m experimenting with discipline I’m that area as well as my eating habits.

  180.  #180Liquid Light on October 4, 2013 at 11:29 am

    Me too Turquoise, with all this juicy material we could make a movie out of it: The Story of Elsie and her CDs


  181.  #181Veronica on October 4, 2013 at 11:35 am

    I’m so glad to be here. Technical issues had me banned from the blog. I feel so relieved to be able to get to Siren island. Phew. I really need this blog.

  182.  #182Femininewoman on October 4, 2013 at 11:37 am


    Missed you.

  183.  #183Lemonbutter on October 4, 2013 at 11:54 am

    Shina, I love what you said in post 168. But I haven’t had enough experience of men either way yet to say whether or not I can agree or disagree, but what I read certainly made me feel peaceful for some reason.

    I am at a point where I am learning to get to know me again, to fall in love me with first before anything else at this moment in time.

    Mercedes, I am the same as you, not a fan of Evan I’m afraid. Certain things he says triggers me for some reason.

  184.  #184Indigo on October 4, 2013 at 11:56 am

    Hi Veronica,

    I saw Maxine had the same issue. That must have not felt good. I hope you are both sorted now.


  185.  #185Veronica on October 4, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    I didn’t lean forward and CultureCD initiated contact and plans for Saturday evening: ) I loved that, it felt like small glimmers of arousal. It seems so delectable to have these plans made by him and I feel excited for myself to have my feeling being all there, alive, and noticing all that’s happening.

  186.  #186Indigo on October 4, 2013 at 12:02 pm

    I feel SO grateful that today was a better day today, and for the healing that obviously took place yesterday. I feel all refreshed and cleaned out and much better able to cope today.

    I had a chat with my mom about taking life at my own pace, including being in the relationship of my dreams, and it felt wonderful to verbalise and talk about that with someone else.

    I feel that I am commitment-ready… however I don’t feel that I as a person am fully ready yet for the person who will be my lifelong partner. If I met him now and tried to jump into a relationship, it would not work. I have become very aware that there are fears that little by little need to heal. It will be slow and it will take time, but they *will* heal. Yay. It feels good to listen to my innermost soul and take the pressure off myself. It feels good to go at my own pace. 🙂

  187.  #187Shina on October 4, 2013 at 12:09 pm


    ((taking a bow)) You are a wise woman, and I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your support. In the past, some of the different articles, quotes, etc. that you’ve posted on here (either Rori’s newsletters or other people’s articles) have helped me TREMENDOUSLY in shedding some light and perspective when I was going through a very painful time. Thank you so much for taking the time to do that for the rest of us!

    #176: I agree with everything you wrote here!
    One thing that stood out to me when you said:

    “I just have to look at a particular guy’s picture on FB and I start to feel all kinds of things.”

    This is a gift. Being able to read people and have your intuition give you information that cannot be observed simply by the naked eye. You truly have a gift of being able to see things beyond the surface and that explains why I love some of your insightful posts! Thank you for being here and sharing your wisdom 🙂

  188.  #188Mercedes on October 4, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    LL: It’s okay. I really don’t mind talking about it too much. I’ve been sharing it for many years now on the blog so it isn’t too hard. The hard part comes in when I get frustrated.

    The way I see it, my present relationship (what I have today, without the cheating) is something a lot of women would want. We as a couple are very inspiring to people we meet and we are incredibly happy. Many couples want this. Then…when the past comes up, all of a sudden everything we have is no longer that great or somehow even valid. Suddenly, no matter what we do, it isn’t a good thing anymore. Instantly J has to pay for his past with everyone who knows about it. What he did a long time ago is held against him today (and the one person most affected by it has forgiven him…it’s just others that can’t seem to get past it).

    And today…he is absolutely NOTHING like he was back then. It’s very hard for me to see my love being talked about the way he is. To read words from women that just tear him apart and degrade him. I hate people seeing him that way because he is an incredible lover, friend, partner, man. He’s amazing and people who don’t know about that time in our lives just love him. But because of me, because I chose to share about us in order to maybe help someone, he has to be criticized. It hurts to see that being done to him even though he probably won’t ever read it himself.

    Anyway, not saying you did that at all, just saying that’s typically what happens when our early times come up on the blog. It’s hurtful to him, it makes me get all defensive and it’s exhausting.

    But other than where the conversation typically goes, I’m really open to talking about it. Particularly with women who are going through or have gone through something similar. I think my voice has a lot to offer them.

    Much Love,

  189.  #189Liquid Light on October 4, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    Veronica 184: Excited for you!

  190.  #190Mercedes on October 4, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    Lemonbutter: Yup…major triggers for me. I think he and I have decided we’re much better at NOT communicating with each other than anything. So we pretty much have no interaction at this point. LOL

    Much Love,

  191.  #191Shina on October 4, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    Liquid Light!

    Girl have I told you that you’re a ray of sunshine in my day?! Whenever I read any of your comments I feel a burst of happiness in my heart — you have this way about you that is just pure joy that is so authentic and vulnerable — that I am NOT at all surprised that you have men falling head over heels for you right from the start 🙂

    Enjoy it girl! You absolutely deserve it 🙂 And I totally see you helping other women in the future with the experiences you’re going through right now, and being able to teach them that YES sometimes you do meet men who come on strong in the beginning, but they are pure in their intentions and you can trust their authenticity and to really enjoy being a superstar goddess in his eyes.

    lots & lots of xoxoxoxo!

  192.  #192Liquid Light on October 4, 2013 at 12:17 pm

    @ Mercedes, Yes, it sounds like you both have grown a lot and consequently your relationship has matured and deepened too into what seems like an absolutely incredible and amazing relationship. And that is SO inspiring!

  193.  #193Shina on October 4, 2013 at 12:18 pm


    ((hug)) Lots of love to you my friend!

  194.  #194Mercedes on October 4, 2013 at 12:23 pm

    LL: Thank you. 🙂

    Much Love,

  195.  #195Mercedes on October 4, 2013 at 12:23 pm

    Love to you too Shina! 🙂

    Much Love,

  196.  #196Shina on October 4, 2013 at 12:24 pm

    #182: Thanks Lemonbutter! (love your name:) )

    As you continue to heal and learn to love/trust yourself, you will absolutely begin to see the truth – whether it’s with men, people or situations. And it is so FREEING at this level, because once you begin to see things the way they are, all the confusion, anxiety, stress, etc. will melt away and you’ll have all the information you need to make the right decision for yourself.

    Trust yourself! You’re probably a lot closer than you know 😉

  197.  #197Veronica on October 4, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    Femininewoman – 181 – Oh thank you so much. I feel comforted and welcomed : )

  198.  #198Rori Raye on October 4, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    emily – The place I want you to go is to NOT CARE what a man does or doesn’t do! You do your thing, and then “Be Surprised.” Love, Rori

  199.  #199Veronica on October 4, 2013 at 12:49 pm

    Hi Indigo : )

    It feels so good to be back. I don’t post often but I do enjoy reading what the sirens have written – it felt really sad to be away from siren power. Thank you for writing to me and for the hugs.

    I missed out on a lot and also it seems you were having a tough time. I’m glad to read that you found some healing.

  200.  #200Veronica on October 4, 2013 at 12:51 pm

    LL – Thank you, I’m feeling very smily here

  201.  #201Liquid Light on October 4, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    Wow Shina 191 Jheeeeez, you just made me day, no my week, no my entire year! I don’t think anyone has said anything that wonderful to me in a very long time! That was so sweet of you and brought tears to my eyes!!! OMG, you are the sweetest thing ever! Thank you for your kind words! Really means the world to me! Now I want to go out there and CD every guy I meet and his brother and his father! hahahhahahahaha! Love back at ya, sweetheart, you are the best! xoxoxo LL

  202.  #202Zara on October 4, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    I am wondering, and this is only a possibility, if GS is a man who just got dumped by the woman he lives with. May be she told him to leave their home for real this time. May be he does not feel it is a game playing anymore, like when she was giving dates in the far away future to move out. May be she just plain told him to get the f*ck out.

    Could be that so far he had done all he could to stay with her (all but what she wanted apparently). He might be in love with her. She was unsatisfied of her life with him so he felt unsafe in his relationship with her and a new friendship at work felt like a life saviour.
    It is possible at some point his live-in woman locked him out of her bed during a time, which would be the time he felt pulled towards sex outside of his relationship. That would be the time when the work friendship became with benefit, and it felt sweet and soothing to him.

    It is possible his live-in woman plaid the “I ignore you” war with him, leaving him with alone time he used to visit and text his mistress. Yet his only worry was to NOT lose the woman he lives with and to do anything he is capable of, to keep her away from the final decision to send him out of their home. Hence he kept secret his mistress.

    He must have felt desperate and a failure as a man when his live-in woman kept showing she was unhappy with him and rejecting him as a lover. Hence it is possible the reason he cried in his mistress arms, when she talked of loving him just the way he is, was because he was wishing it would rather be his live-in woman saying those words. It is possible he said he was never good at relationships, not so much because his mistress was expressing her unhappiness at being his mistress, but because her words triggered the feeling he feels when his live-in woman tells him she is not happy living with him.

    Then came a time when he could not visit his mistress, not even text her during the evenings and week ends, and could not even focus on her at work. His energy was invested somewhere else.
    It is possible that this happened when his live-in woman opened her arms back to him. He could not afford to leave her alone during the evenings, it would have invalidated his efforts at winning her back. He could not afford to even text his mistress anymore, it would have been disrespectful to the live-in woman he was working at winning back, his focus was 100% on the live-in woman. May be he can’t focus on two women at the same time. His energy was pulled into the woman he really wanted to keep.

    So the mistress is left unattended and comes along a new man CollegeCD.
    GS does not react in a first time, he is focused on satisfying his live-in woman.

    =>It is possible
    that, shortly after that, his live-in woman remembers things are always going to feel unsatisfying with GS, not matter how hard they try, and she makes her mind up once and for all, finally. She tells him to leave for real.

    =>Or it is also possible
    she is throwing him out because she heard about the mistress and is going through a rage.

    So here comes GS running to his ex mistress, the friend who told him she loves him just the way he is and who could wash his failure feeling away and boost his ego back up.

    What would happen if his live-in woman takes him back within a year or two?

    If Elsie can’t let go of GS, dating GS officially and with no exclusivity seems wiser in these circumstances.
    It gives him and his live-in woman time to feel sure they are done, with no regrets, ready for the next love. We don’t want Elsie to move in with GS with her children and all, to find out 6 months down the road he loves and misses his children’ mother and she calls him back.
    And it gives time to Elsie to see what it is like to be officially courted by GS, openly meet his friends and family, how constant, peaceful and satisfying it feels or not.

    In order to know with which man life feels peaceful and sweet and satisfying, she has to experiment both men as official suitors. And dating a third man, she might even find out along the year that none of them are IT and she might meet a fourth man and fall in love with no confused feelings about him.

    =>It is also possible
    that when CollegeCD came along, GS did not react in a first time but then what we are about on this blog happened. Cdating works. Both the space she left him and her new joy, powerfully pulled GS back in. And it is possible GS is the one taking the decision the leave his live-in woman for real. It is possible he panics when he imagines a future with no Elsie.
    Why not?

    If such was the case, it would still be wiser to date him with no exclusivity.
    Elsie has no experience of what it feels like to experience GS’ family and friends together, to experience work as a couple officially dating, and how constant, reliable and satisfying he can be on the long term as a free single man. She does not know if he will actually sign a marriage licence with her or if he is only wishing he could push himself to do that to please her.


    GS, I miss you and I feel thrilled you are now free to love me and court me. I will feel honoured to meet your family and friends and to share all these fun activities with our children and you.
    When I was left alone and in pain, I met a man I told you about. He is courting me towards marriage and I feel it is only fair and natural to keep seeing him.
    He has never told me he has something more important than me to take care of. He has never disappeared for days on. I trust him to want and to be able to make me his fiancée someday.

    For the moment, as a free single woman, I am committed to date men who court me with the intention to make me their fiancée. Once I become an official fiancée, I will stop dating my other suitors.

    So, for the moment, I am accepting invitations to share time with my suitors. That is what it is: sharing time together, getting to know if we are compatible in the long run, if we are reliable, if we make the same plans for our families, if we both want marriage, etc… I don’t feel the urge to chose him or you or any other as none of you has officially proposed to me with real projects of marriage and house on the table. I mean real datas, not just words about a house together. I would not be honouring myself if I’d chose a man who does not know he officially wants me as a wife. I understand you need time to date me before you know what to do and I need time to date you all before I know what to do.

    I really feel that life with no pressure is so much more enjoyable and I love to feel you take your time to know your next step. I am also taking time to know what I want with myself.

    I know we love each other and this feels good to know. If you think you can be my suitor until you know you want to officially propose to me, I think I will welcome your courtship and we can take all the time in the world until we know if marriage is what our love is about. I trust your heart will show us the light.


    CollegeCD, I feel happier ever since I met you. I feel beautiful and sexy and I love the laughter in my body. I feel grateful to you for these lovely feelings.
    You know I was feeling heart broken when you and I met. And you know the man has come back to tell me he loves me and wants to live with me.
    It took me time to understand my feelings about that, this is why I left you wondering. It was for no other reason as I would never want to disregard your feelings.

    Today it dawns on me that both of you talk of future with me but none of you has officially proposed to me. And I believe today that is where my confusion comes from. My body is asking with all my cells “what am I supposed to chose from? Which one has even given me a choice to make?”
    When and only when I am officially proposed to marry a man, that will be the time for me to make a choice. The choice will be simple and fair to me and the men. I will either chose to become a fiancée and drop all other suitors, or I will chose to refuse the proposal and to keep dating the other suitors.

    I think this is why you told me to take my time and to meet GS. I understand that now. You see me as the free single woman I am.
    Thank you for reminding me I am single and I should not feel the urge to chose him or you or any other man as none of you has officially proposed to me with real projects of marriage and house on the table. I mean a real proposal with real datas, not just words about a house together. I would not be honouring myself if I’d chose a man who does not know he officially wants me as a wife. I understand you need time to date me before you know what to do and I need time to date you all before I know what to do. I feel relieved that we are on the same page.

    I really feel that life with no pressure is so much more enjoyable and I love to feel you take your time to know what is your next step. I am also taking time to know what I want with myself.

    I know we love each other and this feels good to know. If you think you can be my suitor until you know you want to officially propose to me, I will be happy to welcome your courtship and we can take all the time in the world until we know if marriage is what our love is about. I trust your heart will show us the light.



  203.  #203Liquid Light on October 4, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    Wow, Zara, there’s the basis for the script of our movie right there! Well done! Does anyone here have any cinematography experience? Acting experience?


  204.  #204Sophie on October 4, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    ((((Indigo)))) yes I get very physical sensations x mine are more racy like the nerve endings all over my body are tingly with anxiousness and my head gets obsessive however much I try to slow down and meditate – other times I just go in a fog like I contract into myself like my heart has shrivelled up. During insominia times I really can’t function…I feel frustrated and held back by my own limitations and it frustrates me but I’m just working through and that’s okay… x Gosh!!! YET my peaks and troughs definitely seem to pass more quickly these days so I am definitely achieving more balance little by little x I like the Stevie Nicks lyrics “I have never been a blue calm sea I have always been a storm” It is a trueism for me and I find permission to be me in these words and hence be more loving and accepting of myself x I never wanted to be a storm but part of my journey might be learning the value of my stormy parts and harnessing it’s energy to use more creatively x

    I am glad that you’re feeling better today x

  205.  #205Sophie on October 4, 2013 at 1:47 pm

    (Veronica) I feel smiley x that sounds fab 🙂

  206.  #206Tereana on October 4, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    I think I made a big mistake. With a female friend and not a guy, I mean. Amazingly, the better things are going with the men I date, the more I realize the enormous deficiencies I have in relating to women (not ALL women, obviously. Just certain ones. Ones that trigger me the way my mom would, for example…)

    But part of this is just my personality and not a trigger.

    For example, this friend of mine did something to offend me a while back. We dance together. And I don’t want to give you the while story. Because the point is, even though we talked about it, I still felt unresolved. I felt bitterness and resentment. And I felt judged.

    Well, I was going to say something, but I didnt. then something came up on Facebook and it triggered these feelings again. I messages her about them. And now she is no longer my friend in Facebook.

    I feel bad (sort of), because, a) why did I feel the need to express my feelings at the cost of ruining the friendship? And b) after I told her how I felt, I realized that *I* was the one judging. I was judging her as selfish and hypocritical. And feeling judged at the same time.

    That second part is where the mom-trigger comes in. My personality part is just that when someone “crosses” me, I find it hard to let it go. That’s why I sometimes feel compelled to say something. Because my choices are: to hold it inside and feel resentment, which means I don’t exhort the relationship. Or I let it out and share my feelings and invariably scare the other person off so bad that they never want to talk to me. And then of course I feel bad about that.

    But also – you know, she could have made other choices. She could have treated me much better instead of stealing from me. She could have respected me and also my pets.

    She bothered me because she (like my mom) puts up an impressive front of being a helpful, selfless person. But in reality, she is really only interested in taking car of herself. She is really only happy when she is I’m control or calling the shots. If anyone rise is in her light, then she will cut them down. I guess I don’t need her in my friends list. But I do still need to dance with her.. And I hope this doesn’t ripple out into other areas of the group.

    We are all important, and I just don’t want it to be that my big ego need is more important than what’s best for everyone. But I can’t deny that, because of my past, I have my own “control issues” that I struggle with…

    Thanks for letting me vent. My budget means I haven’t been able to see my therapist for a while. ; )

  207.  #207Tereana on October 4, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    Sorry about all the phone typos – that should have been *enjoy the relationship* (and others, but that was the worst ; )

  208.  #208Tereana on October 4, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    Emerson – that’s good! I don’t know why, but I get scared by the idea of “discipline” in that area. I could go into lots of analysis about that, but the truth is, I don’t know. And I don’t know if that’s the silolution for me, either. I’ve tried “discipline.” But I always get the same results as no discipline. So it doesn’t seem to matter. *sigh*

  209.  #209Tereana on October 4, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    I think I know what part of the problem is that I’m having. I’m craving connection. The kind of connection that comes with intimacy. Intimacy that is closeness and includes sex, but that isn’t just sex. And not overwhelming intimacy either. Just someone to acknowledge you, know who you are, appreciate you as you are, right now, no strings attached, no judgments, no promises. And I don’t mean a one night stand. I mean no pressure. Just depth.

    That is what I am craving. And that is what I feel would release this tense part of me that is tightening and repelling even some of my better friendship relationships.

    I hope that I can find the love that I need very soon. Or that he finds me. And that I have a way to know it’s right. Because I really don’t want to be alone for so much longer… I think I’m ready now. I’ve done the work. There’s more to do to get my finances in order and that’s important. But I’m ready to start being intimate with another person. I want to see if I can handle it. I’m ready to try….

  210.  #210Liquid Light on October 4, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    Or how about:

    The Story of Elsie: To CD or not CD?


  211.  #211Daria on October 4, 2013 at 2:48 pm

    Thanks Shar Lean Way Back… i was thinking of doing that and reading that has pushed me into action…

  212.  #212Liquid Light on October 4, 2013 at 3:03 pm

    Uh oh, guy I’m going kayaking with tonight is being super sweet. I’m not really that interested but he really seems like a sweetheart. Maybe I should be more open to him. He’s planning everything out…love that!

  213.  #213sequoia on October 4, 2013 at 3:09 pm

    This is to one of Elsies early comments.
    What you wrote touched me as I can imagine it to be a challenging place to be in.
    I agree with some comments that you do not necessarliy have to choose one now…see if the one who came back really has changed and walks his talk.
    And I would also look and ask myself and discern the relationships – do I feel good with him or better with him because he feeds my emotional addictions of feeling save, special, secure or is it a true soul connection?
    I feel there is a fine line – and we need to be really honest with ourselves. A man can make me feel save and secure by being very attentive etc. but if I feel loved because he feeds my addiction (the need to feel save and secure ) by giving me his attention, which he could withdraw any moment, it would be a co-dependent connection- – its not real! And it can be a trap!

    I am not saying your connections are based on emotional addiction Elsie, but they could be some feelings that are generated by him feeding into your ‘needs’.
    Anyway just some food for thought and deep feeling and self reflection.

  214.  #214Andrea on October 4, 2013 at 3:18 pm

    Hello. It feels good to catch up with everyone on here again. I have left the message group for a while because my computer kept crashing when I would come on this site. I hope that won’t happen again…

    I wanted to share that it has been hard to be in love with a toxic man. But I finally had to see and admit to myself the reality of my situation. In this case, with this man, I feel my eyes are finally opened and I’m finally willing to see what is true.

    After two years of on again, off again… every time we got back “on” it felt better and I was more hopeful that we had both changed and were actually going to have a real relationship. Then I realized, I was the one who was changing.

    We were back on this past time. He was helping me to train for a marathon. He was coming over for dinners with my daughters and I. He was calling me or texting me every day. Then I asked him if he would friend me on facebook. He said “No”. And he gave me lots of reasons why not.

    I told him I would back off of this subject but would like to revisit it again in a couple of weeks after we were more established in our couple-dom. He asked me why it was important to me. I told him the truth: I feel like I’m shut out of a part of his life, his conversations, his posts, his online relationships.. and I feel insecure about him not wanting me to be part that world, yet saying that he does have space for me in the “real” world. I also told him that I feel scared that if he is refusing me this very small and seemingly inconsequential request, then what bigger requests will he refuse in the future. All fear on my part. I recognized that and I told him that I was sorry for being afraid and insecure, but felt that if I could be honest about my insecurity with him, I could be honest about many other things as well.

    Weeks passed. I brought it up again. Will he facebook friend me. Once more he refused and this time had a whole list of reasons why he did not want to include me in his facebooking. He is on facebook every day. I felt like he was making a statement about my worth. I felt unworthy to be his friend. Even though he was telling me that I was his girlfriend. I realized that no one at his work knew that I was his girlfriend. None of his family knew that I was his girlfriend. None of his friends at this marathon we trained for knew that I was his girlfriend.


    So I broke up with him. I haven’t texted him, called him, facebook stalked him.. nothing. He texted me a week after the break up but I did not respond.

    This time, I have some male friends and some other men that I am dating loosely. This time I have this idea of what it feels like to be treated with concern by some one who really values me in every aspect of life. Even though I haven’t made a love connection with any of these new men that I’m CDing, I’m learning what it feels like to be valued.

    Not wanting to be facebook friends with me… hurts me.. for what ever reason… it does. It hurts. And I don’t want to be hurt anymore. It’s a big deal. But I decided to stop arguing, stop convincing, stop everything…. I want to be valued with out needing to convince someone to value me.

  215.  #215sequoia on October 4, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    Zara 202
    what brilliant letters to both of Elsies suitors –
    I had to save these fine words for once I am in this situation.
    They are just great!
    Thank you

  216.  #216sequoia on October 4, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    214 Andrea
    I so can relate to what you wrote.
    My ex made a huge deal out of it too,
    and it made me not trust him,
    I also felt I was being shut out by him,
    and the truth is,
    he was never in a true relationship with me.

    He was still into his ex, which I believe is a reason
    he didn’t want me as a fb friend,
    and he wanted to write comments like – wow sexy,etc
    onto his ex-girlfriends pictures….
    and he was in his 40is – and yes unavailable and toxic.
    But I didn’t want to see it,
    I moved between understanding and being angry
    and I became more and more insecure
    because of all the mystery and untruth.

    I am kind of glad he’s out of my life now,
    as I wasn’t happy at all.
    I deserve a man who wants to tell the whole world about me. Every women does!

  217.  #217Lemonbutter on October 4, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    Shina, I felt a bit teary (in a good way) reading you post #196. Those are some very inspiring words, thank you.

  218.  #218sequoia on October 4, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    and Andrea I think you did the right thing breaking up with him and not responding to his text when he contacted you.
    I should have done the same, but I wasn’t strong enough.

    And great that you dating other man now.
    I am dating too. Nobody yet I am attracted to, but it has helped me to shift – just recently, actually just since last week.

    I have been watching a lot of romantic movies and watching these has kind of helped me to see what I want and what this man couldn’t or didn’t want to give me.

    The best movies were ‘Still breathing”
    “The shop girl”, “one day”,
    “Thill there was you”

    watching the movies I realised that this man hasn’t been able to give to me. Of course sometimes I also missed him, but most of the time I realised that he behaved more like the bad guy in the movies.

    At the moment I am dating and there is no one in my rotation I feel for. I am still building the rotation up, have dated a few man just once, and I am still dating new ones so that I can have at least 3 😉 I am planning to not have sex with any of them as this makes it all complicated and take it very very slow.

    I also want to concentrate on myself – doing thing by myself – many things by myself, so that I can attract my soulmate one day and establish a healthy relationship that is not based on addictions.

  219.  #219Andrea on October 4, 2013 at 5:05 pm

    Yes Sequoia.. you voiced it. That’s how I was feeling. I want to be with a man who wants to tell everyone that I’m his girlfriend. Cause eventually I want him to tell everyone that I’m his fiancé.. then wife.

    CDing is helping me so much. I can’t even believe how good it feels to be able to demand respect from a dating prospect with out being afraid that I’m losing out on the only man who is interested in me.

    I met a man on and we had been texting back and forth for a little while. One night he texted some pretty raunchy and sexual things after he had asked me out and we agreed to meet. It was as though he was acting like this meeting was a sex hook up. I didn’t respond for a day or two. Then he texted me, “I miss talking with you.”
    I texted back, “I felt dirty and disrespected by your last statements to me. I’m not ready to get into anything sexual with you. I would like to continue talking and meet during the day for coffee or a quick lunch. But I want more from a relationship than just sex. What do you think?”
    He apologized right away. He set up a plan to drive to my city on Wednesday morning and is taking me out for coffee!!! I let him know how very happy that made me and I’m really looking forward to meeting him.

    Another man is a fellow student at the University I go to. We are both older than average students and single parents. He had asked me out on a date for tonight. I said yes, but then he texted me two nights ago that his son has his homecoming football game tonight. He said, “I’m torn. I really want to go out with you, but also want to be there for my son.”
    I was so touched. But I didn’t faun all over it. I told him, “I feel very relaxed and happy with keeping myself busy Friday night. Why don’t you go and enjoy the night with your son.”

    He texted me back a little while later and said, “Well, would you come with me to my son’s game?”

    How sweet and awesome is that? I’ve never met any of his family and instead of leaving me to my own “devices” (hahah) on Friday night, he wanted to include me in his life. I was very happy and flattered by this. But I chose not to go. I don’t feel comfortable in that role yet and this would have been our first date. Awkward.

    I feel like I’m giving him the impression that I am open to dating him on my terms, but also cool enough to find entertainment elsewhere if our plans fall through.

    I’m feeling very happy and content with friendships and casual dating with out sex right now. And yes, like Sequoia said… taking the time to improve upon myself. (and learning what I will not tolerate… finally!!)

  220.  #220Tereana on October 4, 2013 at 5:42 pm

    Alright, well, let me tell you what makes my day. I friend-requested four guys on Facebook that I’ve met recently. I mean, I wasn’t going to wait for them to do it. And they all accepted. And one of them was…wait for it…Mithic man.

    That’s right, but the thing is, I wasn’t even looking for him. I was looking for another guy. And there he was.

    He was the first one to “accept,” and I can’t even tell you why I felt really special about that.

    I guess I’m getting the connection that I need.

    Good things are worth waiting for. I guess I an just waiting. Not passive, just waiting. And scared to death that people think I’m insane. Actually more scared that I might be insane. That there are two of me: the insane and the sane, and they’re both me. Sane me is scared of my insanity…she doesn’t know how to control her and can never predict what she will do. She tries to keep her hidden at all costs, but really that’s a failed endeavor. Sane me/safe me just hates feeling out of control. Actually now that I think about it, I’m not sure which half of me is sane and which isn’t…

  221.  #221Indigo on October 4, 2013 at 10:21 pm


    I really feel you did the right thing breaking up with him. I don’t believe you should ever have to settle for someone who keeps your relationship a secret from those in his life.

    I can relate very much to the Facebook thing. For some reason it was very important to me too. D and I were friends on Facebook for 2 years and initially we had our relationship status up and there were photos of us together. Then during an “off again” time during a discussion where he got annoyed, he deleted me. After the fight (which was so utterly silly and inconsequential but he lost his temper – but obviously there were deeper issues) which led to our most recent break up (about 5 weeks ago now) he deleted me and blocked me off all means of communication. When he e-mailed me a week later being all nice and asking me how I was doing, I told him I wasn’t interested in talking to him until he reinstated me on all those things, which funnily enough, he did right away. I wasn’t interested in getting back together, but for me it was a respect thing. How could I casually talk to someone when in the back of my mind I was thinking how they wouldn’t open up those other means of communication?

    Anyway, I understand how it can be massively triggering. And I do think it is a sign of someone who is not fully emotionally available.


  222.  #222Emerson on October 4, 2013 at 10:30 pm

    I’ve been sexy texting with cutecityCD today lol…

  223.  #223Lemonbutter on October 5, 2013 at 12:12 am

    Andrea #219, I really like how you said this:

    “I met a man on and we had been texting back and forth for a little while. One night he texted some pretty raunchy and sexual things after he had asked me out and we agreed to meet. It was as though he was acting like this meeting was a sex hook up. I didn’t respond for a day or two. Then he texted me, “I miss talking with you.”
    I texted back, “I felt dirty and disrespected by your last statements to me. I’m not ready to get into anything sexual with you. I would like to continue talking and meet during the day for coffee or a quick lunch. But I want more from a relationship than just sex. What do you think?”
    He apologized right away. He set up a plan to drive to my city on Wednesday morning and is taking me out for coffee!!! I let him know how very happy that made me and I’m really looking forward to meeting him.”

    I had a fellow constantly trying to sext me on and off for months, and I could never find the words (or the inner strength) to just say how it made me feel. What you said right there, I am going to remember for future reference!

  224.  #224Zia on October 5, 2013 at 12:43 am

    If I were Elsie I’d be instead looking inward to ask myself “why is he here, and what is he being here showing me?”. There’s no need to spend time with GS to find out if “he’s the right choice”. The answers are all within. Whatever it is that has brought him back, once it gets out and released he may just vanish and there won’t be a choice.

  225.  #225Luisa on October 5, 2013 at 3:59 am

    Hi everyone,

    I need your help from Germany!!

    I don’t know how i can write to Rori, so i’ll tell you my story in a comment and hope that i will get some advices.

    I date a man since February. In the beginning everything seems perfect, he seemed to have a crush on me and we had nice dates for 6 weeks. (His office is in my city, actually he lives about 1200 miles away from me). Then he could work from his hometown and we didn’t see each other for 5 or 6 weeks. He told me that he had the feeling that he is getting depressed again (he fall in a big depression 2 years ago and his relationships ended because of that).
    He told me he needs space and so on…I was very nervous because I really was in love and discussed with him, what pulled him further away…
    In May he had a new project (he is a consultant) in Finland and he invited me so that we had our first weekend.
    After that we had “the talk” – he said that he doesn’t want a relationship right now and that he isn’t so in love like at the beginning. He promised me that we could spend some time (which isn’t easy because of the distance) and that we we’ll see where it will end.

    We discussed and often had arguments, because I am so afraid to lose him. Now he says that he often thought that love “was growing” but everytime when I got panic clamped on him, his feelings were back to zero.

    We know each other for 8 months and i don’t know what I should do because I am so impatiently.
    Is that correctly or should I wait for him and make him fall in love again? (He said that he can’t imagine a life without me but that he isn’t in love right now because of all the discussions and because I pushed him away)…he write or telephone me everyday and that he pay a flight to me for about 500$ is also a good sign, isn’t it????

    Thank you for reading this 🙂

  226.  #226Liquid Light on October 5, 2013 at 11:31 am

    Shina, i tried looking for the post about pressure in the Boundaries article from back in June but I couldn’t find it. Did I miss it? If you have a pointer or know where I can find it, can you let me know? thx love! xoxoxo LL

  227.  #227Daria on October 5, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    feelng powerful

    also, i reabsorbed some life force from my endometrium!

    wow !

    i FElt it come up to my upper back! go me!

  228.  #228Daria on October 5, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    i’ve been asking for help from people too ! yay D!

  229.  #229Daria on October 5, 2013 at 3:16 pm

    omg i feel so blessed!

    thank you DAria and ancestors

  230.  #230Heart on October 5, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    I feel so bored…

    I want something really really exciting to happen
    Come on Universe!

  231.  #231Zia on October 5, 2013 at 4:07 pm

    229 Heart careful what you wish for 😉

  232.  #232Joy on October 5, 2013 at 5:26 pm

    Now that I’m dating a bunch, I’ve noticed a lot of anxiety around the way a lot of these men try to make plans with me.

    They are doing a fairly good job of asking me on a date at least two days in advance (for example, asking Thursday for Saturday evening). However, they are not giving me the follow-up details until the day of the date, often well into the late afternoon.

    So I am left wondering a bit if they might flake but mainly wondering what time I’m supposed to be ready, where we’re going, etc.

    Do you think this should be a deal-breaker right off the bat? I’m leaning more toward thinking these guys are just a bit clueless when it comes to planning a date with a woman, but perhaps I’m cutting them too much slack?

    I’m thinking I’ll go along with the date, since the day was reserved in advance, even though the late follow-up details leave me feeling anxious and a bit disrespected. But I think I need to communicate to these guys, to tell them what I prefer as far as the way dates are planned.

    Here’s what I’m thinking about saying: “It feels great to see you and be here with you, but I was feeling really shaky and unsure today.” Then, he will most likely ask, “Why?” And then I can say, “I really like to know the time and place for a date a day or two in advance. What do you think?”

    Feedback, please!

  233.  #233OrganicSpirit on October 5, 2013 at 6:00 pm

    I keep going through these cycles. I feel so beautifully in touch with myself then life gets in the way and messes up my internal connection. I get caught up in life and lose myself. It’s like I keep shutting down. What should I do?

  234.  #234Shina on October 5, 2013 at 6:01 pm

    Hey Liquid Light,

    *I tried responding to your post above and for reason it didn’t show-up on here. So here’s my 2nd try:

    For some reason, something told me check this blog again this evening and I just found your question (must be meant to be!).

    I’m so sorry, I thought it was under the “Boundaries” post but I found it was actually under the “When you are so angry all the time” one (took me a bit to find it as well!).

    Here’s the link:

    The comments between you and I start on post # 824.

    I hope you’re having a fabulous time with one of your CDs tonight! And if not, I hope you’re having an even more amazing night with yourself — just know I’m with you in spirit! 🙂 lots of love! xoxo

  235.  #235Millie on October 5, 2013 at 6:58 pm

    Hi Ladies….

    I find myself hearing from men that they “aren’t looking for a gf right now” and the are “in a different place” line lately. I’m sure my vibe is coming across as wanting a relationship–cuz I do, but I can’t help hearing inside my head a huge voice screaming “He’s just not that into you,” like the movie. To me these lines are just their way of saying that to me and it feels bad, especially on like the third date. I feel bad hearing it, it makes me feel like I failed in some way. I feel like-what am I doing on this date then?? I voice what I want which is no FWB, that I’m interested in dating and experiencing different people until that special relationship comes along. My question for you ladies is–what is a better tape to be playing in my head other than “he’s not that into you” when I hear those words from a man?

  236.  #236Millie on October 5, 2013 at 7:04 pm

    Joy–I definitely agree with you that communicating to these guys about how you prefer plans be established. For example:
    Are you ok with making plans through text or do you prefer phone? Let them know that you feel uneasy with an open-ended date and see what they say. I think a lot of women feel the way you do but maybe don’t say anything and therefore guys continue to be very casual about plans without realizing it is a bit stressful for the lady. I would speak up and give the guy a chance to react. The deal-breaker would be if you’ve expressed yourself about certain things a few times and he continues to disregards your feelings and preferences. No one wants to be with a man who doesn’t truly listen to your wants and needs.

  237.  #237Lisa on October 5, 2013 at 8:21 pm


    I totally totally know what your saying! I go through the same thing.. being misunderstood, feeling deeply.. etc… What you wrote him home for me…

    and b/c I’m ultra sensitive and ultra loving… it gets in the way at times… or misunderstood taken personally or twisted…

    I feel like I’m on the wrong planet sometimes…

    Sending you hugs! <3


  238.  #238Lisa on October 5, 2013 at 8:32 pm

    @ Elsie

    My gut is very much what LL says and what Mercedes says..

    but my gut doesn’t matter here… listen to yours… and wait for the answer… if you ask, and get very clear on really wanting to KNOW the entire truth… in my experience it will come to you..

    Just a side note:
    in my growth the past 20 years when I’m breaking a pattern, that hasn’t served me in the past… I vomit or come really close to it… I take that as a good sign, that I’m shifting to healthier patterns, and a new synapse is being formed…. our mind can be very resistant to letting go of our old ways… the ego really has that job…

    but again that is my experience… I trust that you’ll have your answer… and I have to say listening to you talk about CollegeCD… I’m looking for what you are describing with him…

    and since i was taught that “anything worth having is worth working for”, part of me wants a man that I have to “work on things” with ( work out my Karma).. and so, I can so relate to what you are feeling with GS.. it’s like if he changed I’d win the lottery… but I’ve had to realize what I’d be putting myself and my children through by having to “work it out”… rather than have it handed to me already worked out… so that I can just enjoy life… if that makes sense… again this is just my take on it.. from my experience..

    just what comes to me… is it possible that GS is having to compete for you for the first time… it is a challenge, now he sees your worth, but time will tell, if that is what it is, a challenge.

    Big hugs!


  239.  #239Vi on October 5, 2013 at 8:45 pm

    Millie, my tape would be ‘wow thanks for your honesty and saving my time (to yourself: because I will move on with a different man then..), I really appreciate it, and thanks for the dinner/coffee, it felt great 🙂 ‘

  240.  #240Emerson on October 5, 2013 at 9:33 pm

    I feel thankful for today and for the conversation I had with one of my sisters who reminded me how important it is to have a vision board and a positive outlook…as a specific positive outlook regarding specific goals…

  241.  #241Heart on October 5, 2013 at 10:22 pm

    Blog – Elsie wasn’t Cding though (@Zara)…she was just dating OllegeCd exclusively. The scenario….sounds like many real lifeexamples or just moving on and then the guy finally steps up. It really does come down to your vibe. You can Cd your heart out but if your still hung up and hoping he returns then it wouldn’t make any difference.

    Elsie & all…I found this article a looong time ago. I’m sorry if this will hurt Rori. Rori is Awesomeness….Rori is miles ahead of most relationship coaches….Reading Rori’s articles soothes my heart and her advice has helped me tap into so many deeper, unexplored sides of myself….
    Maybe she’s right and this coach is wrong….BUT it is an interesting and timely article to have on the blog:

  242.  #242Heart on October 5, 2013 at 10:32 pm

    As for me – I understand Rori’s and Renee point of view..I’m cding in a sense but I’m single so I don’t have the problem of whether to cd when in a relationship.

  243.  #243Heart on October 5, 2013 at 10:36 pm

    Of course – when I start liking a guy…I don’t want to see other ppl but in my experience unless your exclusive …it’s healthy to CD.

  244.  #244Heart on October 5, 2013 at 10:48 pm

    For me, the thought of Cding when your already in a relationship feels Yucky.

    At some point doesn’t it need to be about Love, poetry, stardust and Specialness?
    Otherwise what’s the point?

  245.  #245Heart on October 5, 2013 at 11:17 pm

    you’re lol

  246.  #246Heart on October 6, 2013 at 12:55 am

    I want something exciting to happen.
    Come on Universe!

  247.  #247Jammy85 on October 6, 2013 at 3:17 am

    Today I feel like I am constantly having the oars of the love boat thrown back at me. Thrown at me by a stroppy man-boy with his arms folded exclaiming that I should be the one rowing. I haven’t even been tempted to lean forward and pick them up which has made him even stroppier. Now he is wailing and banging his fists on the boat making lots of noise and movement without achieving anything….I imagine him in pigtails and a frilly dress. I wonder if he would notice if I dived off the boat and swam to shore leaving him there alone. Having a tantrum in the middle of the sea that no one can hear and no one can see…………..

  248.  #248Jammy85 on October 6, 2013 at 3:23 am

    …..I feel like having a discreet but satisfying chuckle at his expense. This in itself makes me want to laugh as I used to call him ‘chuckles’…..oh irony!

  249.  #249Lemonbutter on October 6, 2013 at 7:58 am

    What I like about Rori’s style and advise, is that the focus is on us, on us being happy in our feminine energy and bringing out the best of us by being authentic to us and our feelings.

    The sort of coaches I don’t feel any affinity for, are the ones that say we should change certain parts of ourselves to fit a man, or be completely understanding and compassionate even when he hurts you. Advise similar to that feels like it’s putting women down, telling us we are the problem, and that in order to get and keep a man we want, we need to accommodate him.

    That is the sort of thing I have been doing for years, and all it’s gotten me is feeling hurt and fearful, and locked me out of how I feel.

    For me, Rori is enabling me to get back in touch with my feelings, to embrace and understand them, and very importantly to communicate them with sincerity and with wonderful feminine energy.

  250.  #250Indigo on October 6, 2013 at 8:43 am

    Lemon butter,

    I agree with you.

    I also love talking to my mom, who helps me to understand myself and men, without ever making me feel like I’m inadequate or the problem.

    I love it.

    I see it all as a journey, with learning and healing and blossoming, and growing more and more into love of yourself. I don’t see any value in outlawing parts of yourself.


  251.  #251Radlove on October 6, 2013 at 8:45 am


    The last time I had a good first date was with R, nearly 5 years ago on Christmas Eve 2008. Enter Mr. Classic!

    Classic and I met through Craigslist recently, after I responded to his post:

    PLAIN CHRISTIAN GUY HERE – 41 I am a white male who is 41 years old. I am a pretty plain type of guy. I don’t have a whole lot of money. I enjoy simple things. I like my church and going to functions at my church, I like sitting in a quiet place having a cup of coffee, I like watching movies, Or just a simple walk in the park.
    I am looking for a simple and plain woman. What you look like is of no importance to me. I just ask that you have a big heart, And also a great sense of humor. I am also open To ages. You must also love God , Or at least be interested in learning. Please contact me and tell me about yourself. Thanks for listening.

    For the first time in my life, a man other than my father brought me flowers! He picked me up at the door from over an hour away (I felt that safe with him before meeting me to give him my address, and he didn’t complain at all about the distance, over an hour away! He took me to the outdoor patio of a Mexican restaurant, and we had great conversation! He is into martial arts and does competitions, and he was very mature and kept asking me if I was feeling nervous and why, so we kept the air clear between us throughout the date by discussing our nervous feelings and reasons for nervousness. Then we walked slowly around an outdoor shipping center and got Starbucks coffee. We shared a few photos and videos on our phones on a park bench , and I liked how he sat close to me! He gave me a warm hug before he left, and he also met my Mom in the house for about 20 min, along with one of my best friends, Isabel, LOL!

    It was wonderful! Just before he left he said, “I want to see you again!” as he squeezed my hand. I said, “Me too! I like you!” Finally! a good date!!!!

  252.  #252Femininewoman on October 6, 2013 at 9:17 am

    Wow RadLove!!! Thanks for sharing that.

  253.  #253Rori Raye on October 6, 2013 at 9:20 am

    Organic – you sound GREAT to me – Just being AWARE of the shifts is where the magic is. Love, Rori

  254.  #254Lemonbutter on October 6, 2013 at 10:21 am


    You mom sounds wonderful! I have a friend who is very similar, no matter what I say to her regarding men, she is always uplifting and reminds me of my positives and how those positives can be used to have better relationships with men.

    I didn’t heed her advice for a long while, and I realise she was telling me the very things that Rori Raye talks about.

  255.  #255Tereana on October 6, 2013 at 10:54 am

    Hi Emerson! I always feel skeptical of vision boards. But maybe that’s because, even though I feel like I have strong visions internally, it can be really hard to get this visions out into paper, or whatever medium. Maybe I can find my own way to do it…

  256.  #256Shina on October 6, 2013 at 11:04 am

    Hey Liquid Light,

    I tried posting a reply to your question yesterday, but for some reason it wouldn’t go through.

    I went looking for those comments b/n you and me, but I found it was under the “When you are so angry all the time” post and not the “Boundaries” one. (it took me a bit to find them as well!)

    Here’s the link:

    The comments between you and me start on post #824.

    I hope you’re having a fabulous weekend! lots of love to you girl! xoxo

  257.  #257Dominique on October 6, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    OrganicSpirit – 232 – This sounds like normalness to me. Your awareness is key to re-engaging with yourself. When you perceive the disconnect happening, take some time (mere seconds may be all which is needed) to breathe deeply into your heart, feel into your deeper self, and look for where you would prefer to be. Sometimes just BEing where you is what you need even if it feels bad. Embrace this. All of it. Allowing all of it allows a flow. And you will be able to flow back to yourself all the sooner.


  258.  #258Millie on October 6, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    @237 Vi–

    thank you 🙂 That would definitely be a better an internal conversation to have with myself. I want to accept truth, but also come away feeling content and happy with myself even in the throws of rejection.

  259.  #259sequoia on October 6, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    Heart 239 – i browsed through the article on thefeminine women block and she seems to analyse it from avery different angel.
    For me Rori’s tools are in a way real life therapy. You decide to work with what comes to you. Eg. you put your profile up on a dating site, see what man are attracted to you, meet them, observe yourself, how you act, how you feel, try out different things, eg. being in a receiving state and expressing your feelings and than see what happens next – the 3 e’s – experiment, explorer, experience,..or was it 5 e’s ?
    and in this way you experience yourself in new ways, you learn about yourself, how things feel, about setting boundaries, what you want, etc. and so ones’s self essteem and confidence grows as ones’ trust in oneself grows. Dating more man helps to not get attached, its can be messy and scary, but the truth is if there is genuine communication than things work out.

    I have been rushing into things and found myself angry and resentful bcs I got attached to soon and the man retreated.

    It hasn’t worked for me and I am ready to try sthg different. I can not imagine being able to do it if sex is in there, so that’s why I want to just date man without getting intimate.

    At the moment I really do it for the purpose of ‘therapy’.
    i am not expecting to meet my soulmate online , but who knows. I know that I have addicitive tendencies and meeting different man, focusing on myself – how I feel, expressing my feelings, setting boundaries, and not being the ‘good girl’ who seeks attention from man to feel ok and fits into what they want me to be and how they want me to behave – but myself – is truly healing but also feels a bit scary.

    I believe circular dating with the intention for exploration in mind is a great gift for women, and i know it works.

    Men just seems to want to be the man and go a little after what they want, lead and make there own decisions.
    Of course there might be some exceptions – like when it is a very powerful encounter and the two just know that they are ready for a commited connection, and the man openly expresses that he knows that she is the one and acts accordingly.
    But to have this as a healthy connection one has to be ‘healthy’ first, e.g. loving and accepting oneself and circular dating how Rori teaches it – gets you there.

  260.  #260sequoia on October 6, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    At this point I still feel challenged by the Cd. I have attracted a man, who never invited me to anything other than walks and who wants to cook for me at my place, who is sending me a bit to full on texts – like he’s missing me and he want me, darling kisses…to full on for me and I don’t even know what to respond so I didn’t and than he’s not following up on dates.

    Arranging dates triggers me –
    like in a previous post, not sure who posted it, but I was able to relate very much to it.
    My CD ask me when we can meet again, I say I could make sunday night, he says yes ok sunday night,
    but than if I don’t ask , well what are we going to do,
    he wouldn’t say anything else,

    so I didn’t ask , what we are going to do,
    I left it , with yes ya lets meet sunday, to see what happens next,
    and than I got this to full on text about he missing me,
    but nothing about sunday,

    gladly I am not into him 😉
    but I still feel frustrated
    and I texted him today that it all feels weird
    He texted back what , why does it feel weird
    and I responded:
    I feel a bit confused. i thought we arranged to meet on sunday evening. I kept sunday eve free but didn’t hear anything from you about it feels weird. I am not going to agree to any loose date anymore.

    might be a bit harsh, but I do not care.

    The arranging date thing also triggered me with my ex,
    he never made plans, only last minute dates,
    I explained it to him, that it doesn’t feel good,
    and he never bothered to consider it.

    I wonder what this is all about,
    I am grateful for any insights and tips on how to handle this from you sirens. Thank you

  261.  #261Indigo on October 6, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    sequoia 257,

    From what I understand, if you are just casually dating this man, this is where the beauty of having a few men in your rotation comes in, to continue Circular Dating – other men, going out with friends, having your own adventures. You ultimately can’t control what this man or any man does, the trick is for it not to be important 🙂 If he doesn’t make proper plans, you just keep living your life 🙂

  262.  #262Meg on October 6, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    Thank you for taking special recognition of my post. Unfortunately, I slipped a little and things are taking a turn for the worse. As of this point, I’m committing myself to accepting that I need to move away from him in order to find and stretch myself. I’ve been on-again-off-again with him (with me always initiating the little breakups) for about six years I guess. We are both socially anxious (in fact we were so “compatible” and found such solace in only each other that I’ve been thinking for so many years that he was God’s perfect gift to me for an entire adolescence and young adulthood of bad experiences with men).

    I think I’m now beginning to accept and become resolved to the fact that I’ve been ignoring myself in a very codependent relationship with this troubled man for too many years, and if I continue to cave in and snap back to him every single time, the pattern of neglect and same-old habits will continue into my thirties (I’m soon to be 27). Not only that, but should such turmoil as this continue down the road (if he resolves his own issues and commits to being a more attentive partner), I won’t have any kind of foundation in hard-earned self-love and acceptance to weather it. The immense pain and hard training starts today and I’m truly committed to seeing it through for my own sake. Of course, he’s waffling on me and has no real idea that I’m trying to switch off. I don’t think I owe him anything, least of all an explanation. I’ve been forward-leaning and he naturally expects this. I’m afraid he has another thing coming. I just want to replace him in my head with ME, I really do. It starts with accepting the end of the relationship for me. He probably only vaguely realizes this.

    Anyway, yes, this is happening. Since he was my sole confidante before this, I’ve started looking for quiet spaces away from people in nature to commune with whatever higher energy is out there. And I give more to this entity than I ever have to my ex. I really let my emotions come over me in a wave. It’s been pretty therapeutic so far.

    I’ve embraced physical activity and quality time with my sister and her friends (I have trouble making my own friends). I’ve cut out sugar and gluten (this is easy because I’ve followed the paleo diet for a few years – just one thing the ex pooped on even though it had astounding effects on my health).

    I have a new contract job in another state coming the end of the month. I’m living with my parents now because his mentally ill mother is using our shared apartment for a halfway house, and I’ve never enjoyed being around her as she’s an energy vampire).

    Rori, thank you from the bottom of my heart, I will continue to post here.

    With that said, I’m in the throes of intense physical pain, similar to what I imagine drug withdrawal is like. I have a persistent tension neck-ache, I have no appetite, I have persistent nausea as well as weakness and shaking in all of my body parts. Sleep? Forget about it. What can I do for more immediate relief from these physical symptoms on a budget?

  263.  #263Indigo on October 6, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    On the note of having my own adventures, I had to do this this weekend when a couple of my plans fell through.

    I took myself off to the theatre last night… I haven’t done that in ages. It was kind of experimental theatre of the drama students at the university, and it felt so nourishing to give myself interesting and fascinating experiences like that. I love doing things like that when my plans fall through, I was surrounded by people and I didn’t feel as lonely any more.

  264.  #264Indigo on October 6, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    wow, Meg, your post resonated so much with me, and I just wanted to say



  265.  #265Meg on October 6, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    By the way Rori, I’ve been browsing your articles for about a year already (I really wish I could but I can’t afford to pay for any materials). This is my go-to site. When I watch your videos, there is something very attractive and soothing about you that brings me back.

  266.  #266Meg on October 6, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    Thanks Indigo, I need this kind of positive reinforcement.

  267.  #267Meg on October 6, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    “Poised” is another good word. I want to be poised and anchored.

  268.  #268sequoia on October 6, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    Meg so great that you are setting out into diving deeper into yourself with all these deep realisations about yourself and your last relationship.
    It’s inspiring and I hope you keep us posted.
    Reg. your physical symptoms they sound a bit like the chemtrail flue, but could be sthg else.
    You could drink lots of hot lemon, with diatomaceous earth to detox heavy metals, and feel all you emotions.

  269.  #269sequoia on October 6, 2013 at 2:58 pm

    thank you Indigo 258
    Yes it would be good to have more men in my rotation,
    so far I wasn’t able to have a few permanent ones.
    I am still struggeling as somehow a part of me seems to not want to date, however I realy want to experience this and so I feel positive that it will happen soon.

  270.  #270Daria on October 6, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    Yay Radlove!

  271.  #271sequoia on October 6, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    I feel strange now having send that text to him, maybe I shouldnt have bothered expressing that to him, that I felt confused about the date not happening. Mhhh

  272.  #272Zia on October 6, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    Heart – I also don’t agree with cd’ing (in the sense of going out with men on dates) once I’m in an exclusive relationship, rather CD’ing myself. It feels disrespectful to me, to be dating other men when I’ve made a decision to be in an exclusive relationship with one man. I’m happy with exclusivity as a means to work out if we’re compatible for marriage long term.

  273.  #273Sirenity on October 6, 2013 at 3:23 pm

    43 Joy. I want to say , go for it and send a thank you text. There is a difference between leaning back and a little gentle encouragement. And its cultural depending on where you are. Men havent read the “rules” or the “tools” and they dont necessarily know they are supposed to initiate all the time . In my culture they are very egalitarian and think you arent interested if you dont give some positive feedback. I lost several good men by leaning back consistently. Mind you I needed to learn the difference !

    This is very different to frequent pre-texts where you text under a pretext of something to share or “just thinking of you” . If you feel in any way invested or anxious about it you are probably leaning forward with a big flag waving ..”Pick Me”. If you feel anxious that he will overlook you or forget about you then forget it..dont text. A simple natural thanks for the gtreat evening , I so appreciated your thoughtfulness just good manners to me.

  274.  #274Sirenity on October 6, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    Meg, thank you for taking the brave step of sharing your personal story here. You will find support and care here. I feel so pleased to read you are out of the apartment and moving away for work . These things are what really heal the physical pain and sickness.Daily step by step decisions that carry you in a new direction.

    Perhaps its time for the “change everything ” tool .Get a new hair style or get your sister to make you over. Wear a new colour ..its amazing how colour helps ..In fact if you can buy some new clothing, even recycled , that is like nothing you ever wore with him..especially if its bright and a little crazy..go for it. Its time for some fun nail paint too.

    I also would highly recommend funny movies reruns of silly sit coms..the objective is to laugh .

    I imagine “feeding” myself humour , warmth, colour, luscious sounds , words ..and company.

    Its good you are meeting people. Consider meet up groups maybe? There are Sirens who have great fun with trivia nights or bowling groups or whatever.

  275.  #275sequoia on October 6, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    Meg regarding your physical pains – I tried comment with link but it didn’t seem to gone through. the symptoms sound a little bit like chemtrail flue – have a lot of hot lemon and detox heavy metals with diatomaceous earth and feel all you emotions, also the sadness and fear, once felt to the core it can leave the soul. Prayer, conversing with God, helps too.

  276.  #276sequoia on October 6, 2013 at 3:46 pm

    Sereniry – I love those posts that inspire new things and ideas of things to do for oneself – they can never be enough, thank you.
    I’ll try the hairstyle tomorrow – curling my hair. I recently got myself a beautiful pink nail polish and I am going to design and make myself some pink jersey dresses in a few weeks – feeling excited about that!

    Have been watching tons of great movies, see my last posts and always happy to discover new ones that suit our themes – so please share! Thank you

  277.  #277Dominique on October 6, 2013 at 3:57 pm

    Millie – 233 – How about this – Lovely man, yet i guess he’s just not ready for me.


  278.  #278Dominique on October 6, 2013 at 4:21 pm

    Meg – 259 – You have a lot of healing to do, and the best way to go through it is to go through it. Feel ALL of it as awful as it may feel. Resisting it keeps it persisting. Free flowing feelings can move on through you and transform into other feelings, maybe better feeling ones.

    This is a time to take really, really good care of YOU. Rituals which soothe you, taking the time to immerse in sensation which can feel good, such as luxuriating in the water as it runs over your body as you bathe or shower, FEELING your hands on your skin, the smells, the touch, the visuals. The same with your creams and lotions, your make up, the clothes on your body as you dress.

    Meditation is wonderful to calm and soothe. Find some guided meditations, eg mindfulness meditation.

    Filling your life up with activities and people who make you feel good, smile, laugh, feel something awesome, passion.

    As for sleeping difficulties, there is a homeopathic remedy which is amazing for getting those spinning thoughts to quiet down, so you can rest. Calms Forté, inexpensive and available in any health food store.


  279.  #279Zia on October 6, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    I had a real aha moment when I listened to a call recently – she said that a lot of people hold on to exs energetically because they’re afraid of the “empty space” that is there when we let go. And that has been SO true for me! I couldn’t work out why I have such a hard time letting ex’s go, and in fact I’ve never done so until I met the next guy. It feels good to recognize this fear of that space, and recognising it already has allowed me to feel ok with that space.

  280.  #280Indigo on October 6, 2013 at 4:44 pm


    Thank you for mentioning that Calms Forte, I need some of that tonight 🙂

    It is 1:30 am here, and I can’t sleep. I’m not too worried about it because I’ve been getting lots and lots of sleep over the previous few nights.

    As usual, I’m feeling f***ed up inside over D (I’m just venting here Sirens, I love you all! please don’t judge me, I think venting will make me feel better xx) I’ve been battling with the contact thing. I’ll be doing very well with not contacting him, and then something will happen which will make me want to contact him and get “clarity”. Warring with that is, I want to stay friends. And he’s angry and needs his space.

    The other day when we were talking on the phone he said in a totally angry and ranting voice that he does still love me and maybe always will, and maybe 40 years from now we will get married, but he just doesn’t see any possibility for a relationship right now. I TOTALLY agree with that, and I am not hoping for that. But he’s SO angry. I wonder if this is how men cope.

    I’m not going to deny that the anger hurts. And I know I am putting myself in the firing line of it by contacting him while he is still so angry. And I also know the anger has NOTHING to do with me. I know that now, which I didn’t before. And things hurt a lot less than they did. Things which used to hurt a lot are now at the level where I can cope with and tolerate them, so that is good.

    And here’s to praying that tomorrow I do a little better for myself.

    I want to give him the space, I really do. And most of the time I am really fine with it, but sometimes it hurts and I don’t understand.


    thanks for letting me vent, Sirens. This sensitive siren is going to try to get some rest.

    goodnight xx

  281.  #281Joy on October 6, 2013 at 4:45 pm

    Sequoia, that was me who posted about the anxiety around “loose dates” and wanting to communicate my preference for the details a day or two in advance.

    I got a chance to try it last night. Guy had reserved Saturday night with me on Thursday. We texted back and forth during the day yesterday, but no real mention of our date.

    A little later, I texted him “I feel confused.” He asked why is that? I said, “It would feel great to know when and where we’re meeting to night.” He then promptly apologized and set a time and place.

    Today he texted me asking whether he gets a second date. I said, “Yes, it would feel great to see you again.” He asked me what day works for me and I said I could do tues or weds.

    He came back with, “OK perfect, either day works for, depends on if I work in the evening.” More vagueness!

    So I said, “OK awesome. If you could let me know the game plan a day or two in advance, that would feel great. My schedule gets kind of crammed sometimes :)”

    And he said, “Sure no problem at all.”

    So now I feel like I have communicated this clearly and can sit back to see if it was “heard.”

  282.  #282Joy on October 6, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    Sirenity, thanks for responding to me! Your post resonates with me and feels comforting and wise.

  283.  #283Meg on October 6, 2013 at 5:05 pm

    Calms Forte – will this help with general anxiety during the day too if taken in a smaller dose? I’ll check it out. The reason I ask is I have another problem which seems silly but is feeling pretty serious this week. I do commissions for artwork and my SHAKY HAND problem is getting in the way! I don’t want this anxiety to be present in my work!

  284.  #284Memulo on October 6, 2013 at 5:10 pm

    Maybe I said something really wrong and that is why he is not calling? I have not heard from him since Thursday.

    When he did call to ask why I contacted him I yelled at him ( in a soft way) and asked -how could you do it? And we talked a bit about it and he said -at some point we stopped calling each other. Anyway – after that we talked for an hour about unrelated stuff and it felt good and close. Did I do something really stupid? Should I have said that I missed him instead?

  285.  #285Memulo on October 6, 2013 at 5:12 pm

    How is Starla btw? Haven’t heard from her since Wednesday

  286.  #286Tereana on October 6, 2013 at 5:36 pm

    Heart (239) – That was a really interesting link to the Feminine Woman blog (not to be confused with Femininewoman the siren – at least I don’t think so! ; )

    She has a nice counterpoint to Rori’s philosophy, but at the same time, I think she makes a lot of the same points.

    And in the end, I think her conclusion is totally valid, and not unlike Rori’s philosophy – IF you are CD-ing out of fear, then it’s not going to “give” you confidence, nor will it help your relationship. But if you feel confident and CD-ing is helpful for you, then you can make your own decision…

  287.  #287Tereana on October 6, 2013 at 5:41 pm

    I did it. I contacted CCB today. I wrote and said that I missed him. He said that he missed me back. Then we chatted for a bit, and then suddenly he stopped…lol. Probably went to get dinner or something.

    I’ve literally not left the house all day. Might be nice to go for a walk or something. But I also think it’s been good to have a day to do nothing at all. I really needed it.

    I’ve been sick, working really hard at the same time as being sick, and then staying with my friends who have two small kids. It’s draining to me to be “on” all the time. I wonder how I can ever be a mother?? I don’t know. All I know is that I want to be… 🙂

  288.  #288Silver-Tongued Siren on October 6, 2013 at 6:20 pm

    Right on, Rori! Love this post!

    Elsie -I feel so interested in your story.
    I think it’s a tough decision, but think yes now may not be the time to get a NEW third CD involved unless it can be done without anyone’s knowledge, but if college guy knows there is only one other (GS), I think now would be a bad time seeing as how he’s stepping up…(in words). However he can’t exactly step up in actions if he is aware that his proposal would be turned down, and he can’t just go buy a house for his new family if he isn’t sure she wants to live in it. How should he step up currently? I think keep dating CollegeGuy and GS, and see who steps it up even more (but make a way for college guy to step up!, what can he give?) …. if CollegeGuy doesn’t step up to really claim you, and if GS disappears, then maybe consider getting a new CD, but not yet. College Guy is doing everything right. Maybe you could accept some lunch or coffee dates? maybe that would be better than full on CDing. But give CollegeGuy enough attention and appreciation. I wouldn’t go so hard on CDing that it appears as though you are actively seeking someone else, I think he’d take it as you not truly being interested. I think by far the best response though, was the letters to the suitors. I think that really solves everything, except for “marriage and house” can’t be on the table since Else isn’t sure she wants marriage. I suppose he *could* go out and just get a house for himself and ask her what she thinks of it. So that’s a possibility.
    If you don’t mind me asking (maybe I missed this) have you had sex with him? Has he asked you for sexual exclusivity?

    Whomever wrote those letters to the suitors.. WOW, I want to remember that.

  289.  #289Lisa on October 6, 2013 at 7:00 pm

    @Seahorse #502 Love you! <3 Thanks so much!!!! Not sure who I triggered… but yes, I agree!

    @ Veronica {{{{{Hugs}}}}}

    @ Dominique not sure where it was posted.. but no this isn't for the faint at heart… BK says that too… this kind of deep work, it for the brave… and strong…

    @ Elsie I don't know what to say except Love you! and sending you {{{{hugs}}}}

    I can't thank you enough about suggesting the attached book… it was a huge huge deal for me…

    and though for me, I believe anyone that chooses to work on themselves can come to be secure… just my 2 cents…

    Great post Rori made… I just had a session on the fact that I need up upgrade my expectations and boundaries… in general… I was told I'm a doormat with men… ok! hard to hear but I can totally be humble enough to know when something is right… and she was right…


  290.  #290Lisa on October 6, 2013 at 7:03 pm

    @RadLove Awesome!!! Yipeee!!!!

  291.  #291Tereana on October 6, 2013 at 7:36 pm

    I go back and forth. Sometimes I think to myself that I’m not giving CCB enough credit, and that I’m probably just judging him for being “quiet” and not saying a lot, when really he’s just a shy introvert who doesn’t know what to say.

    Then sometimes I think he’s a sociopath. Lol.

    I love my confused feelings. I love my not-knowingness. I love my shy, confused, sensitive girly self. I love my crazy feelings. I love my emotions. I love my emotions, because if I didn’t have them, the world would be a black-and-white, brittle, bland, tasteless cracker. With them, it is ripe, full, squishy, colorful, alive. It is happy, sad, wrenching, arduous, joyful, and – crazy. And with that, it is interesting. I like interesting. I like curious. I like colorful. I like different. I feel different and I love my different feelings. I love me the way I am, because if I wasn’t the way I am, I wouldn’t be me. It hurts me when other people don’t like me, too. But that’s only because I love me so much, and I wish they could see me. And love me the same way.

    And when it comes to some guys, I know I don’t give them the chance. I don’t always give them the chance to love me. Maybe I don’t think they can. But what if they could? What if they are loving me right now? Without me being able to see it, or hear it, or feel it? It could be there anyway. Reaching out to me. Yearning to touch me. Missing me. Loving me.

    My heart did a little quarter-turn when it heard that. I think I’m on my way to letting someone in. Maybe it won’t be as scary as I think it will…

  292.  #292Tereana on October 6, 2013 at 7:40 pm

    STS, it’s good to “see” you on here ; )

  293.  #293Vi on October 6, 2013 at 7:43 pm

    Radlove, 249, I feel smiley and warm in my heart reading your comment 🙂 I feel glad to know you felt good and safe.

  294.  #294Tereana on October 6, 2013 at 7:45 pm

    I can’t remember where it was from, but I heard or read somewhere recently that connection is our “default” state, as human beings.

    It’s really true.

    But it kind of blows my mind.

    Because I’ve been spending so much of my life in a default state of loneliness. But I really this isn’t really true to me, to who I am. It feels like a “should.s I “should” feel lonely in order to be a “better” person. But who says so? Obviously someone who, to put it nicely, had their own interests at heart. Someone who knew that they could control me by keeping me in a state of loneliness that only they could fill…and sad to think that this program does still run in my life, even without my permission. But it’s ok, I can forgive myself. I didn’t create this. And even if I didn’t install this program, I have the master passwords on my operating system. I can stop this program. And run new programs. Or reset to “factory settings” – default state “connected.” : )

  295.  #295Vi on October 6, 2013 at 7:47 pm

    Zia 275, thank you for sharing! These words struck a chord with me too.

  296.  #296Lisa on October 6, 2013 at 8:02 pm

    I love when life takes you by surprise… its yummy…

  297.  #297Liquid Light on October 6, 2013 at 9:19 pm

    I’ve got a date with Hometown! So excited!

  298.  #298Gazelle on October 6, 2013 at 9:31 pm

    Thank you, Liquid Light! Sorry I wasn’t online to chat with you at that time.

  299.  #299Lisa on October 6, 2013 at 9:41 pm

    @ Liquid Light

    “The harshness of the world is hard for me to deal with, and people not understanding me. I’ve grown to accept that that is the way of it when you are on this particular path, but I do still long for a man whom I can share myself with, who will love and accept this part of me.”

    this is so me…. thanks for sharing…

    I often feel I’m speaking to myself , and that’s ok.. but it works… and my process continues…



  300.  #300Zia on October 6, 2013 at 9:44 pm

    At the moment I’m focusing on speaking the truth, especially when it comes to how I feel. Not just with men, but with family members and friends. Especially when I decide to say “no” to something. Its surprising how scary being vulnerable can feel (because speaking my truth about why I say no feels incredibly vulnerable).

  301.  #301Zara on October 7, 2013 at 5:09 am

    239 Heart

    That link you are sharing feels soooooo weird to read.

    It feels weird to see the same vocabulary on that link than the vocabulary spread on Rori’s blog and in Rori’s products and yet to see it used to discredit a Rori’s tool.

    I know the notion of feminine and masculine vibes and vulnerability and honesty and dating multiple guys existed pre Rori’s blog and in several parts of the world, yet that link reads like typically written by a reader who came here on Rori’s blog, took the basic ideas and thought they could call themselves coach.

    Well, fair enough. Coaches call themselves coaches because they want to and bless them for doing what they want. And some even become actually good.
    Yet, it still feels eeeeeky and weak for a coach to detract Rori’s tool although getting the inspiration from her blog.

    Even if they did not take their inspiration from Rori, it still feels self-damaging to not mind their own business, pun intended, to not focus on their own blog and own tool.

    Now I feel surprised and curious.

    The clients come and stay where it feels useful to them. Each to their own. It feels pointless for coaches to detract a tool they don’t even sell. It feels more productive to focus and emphasise on what they do sell.

    I can’t find a single reason coming from love why coaches would write for their own clients a whole article to discredit a tool they don’t sell, a tool that is not part of their method.

    In this specific case, the coach herself says she spent hours reading Rori’s free articles and she does not understand how the product works exactly. I believe her, because if she did understand her reading, she would know to focus on herself, on her own business and to teach only the truth (her own experience of the tool).

    Technically, I find it impossible for coaches to write an article to explain a tool, of which explanations they do not understand themselves. Unless they lie in their explanations and fill with their own projections the holes in their understanding.
    And there goes crumbling away their reliability as coaches.

    I feel giggly now.

    I imagine a TV shopping presentator talking about a tool she is not showing, empty handed, explaining how it works and how she does not know for sure if it works the way she thinks it works.
    and saying her ignorance of the tool is the proof of how bad the tool is, rather than the proof she has not bought the tool and she never actually used the tool to understand it.
    Then when the show ends and it is time to give the price of the tool, she says:
    “Well all this to tell you, dear clients, I don’t sell the tool as it is not mine and I have never even seen the tool. Much less experimented it. All I did was to read some of the free flyers. Honestly, I did not understand what I read. From there, I used my own old projections to IMAGINE how a woman WOULD feel using a tool I am making up in my mind. Therefore, thanks to my well informed opinion, I can advice you it is a bad Tool. Don’t use it. Instead buy what my site is selling.”


    Only a female who actually experimented in real life circular dating, using the tools as thoroughly explained in Rori’s products, can feel from within her own body how it works for her.

    The detractors are just projecting their fears on a tool they don’t know.
    The tool they discredit is an imaginary tool that does not exist but in their mind, and it is their own mind that put pieces that don’t work together. In short, they discredit their own mind.

    So far, it would be rather amusing, if it was not for the fact that they name the imaginary tool with the same name as Rori’s tool and they make believe that they are talking about the real tool delivered with Rori’s products. Which is a confusing lie for the new women who google the word “Circular Dating” for informations, and get the detractors’ articles in the search results.

    I feel puzzled, why publicly detract a tool they have not experienced in their own body and that nobody is forcing on them on their own blog?
    If it is true the tool is useless, why even mention it on their blog? Why not also mention the other hundreds methods that do not work at attracting and keeping love? Why specifically discredit Rori’s tool?

    I don’t know, all I know is the detractors give their own blog more visibility on the Internet when they use Rori’s name and vocabulary in their articles and tags.
    When Rori’s vocabulary, like “Circular Dating”, is typed in Google search, the detractors’ articles come up, which brings them new readers, so potential clients.


  302.  #302Lemonbutter on October 7, 2013 at 7:48 am

    Meg, I feel like I want to ask you to take care of YOU.

    I stressed myself out so much that as a result, I began losing my hair! That’s how bad my anxiety and hurt and upset became.

    Please love and care for you, no matter what any man is doing. I know it’s easier said than done, but had I known a couple of years ago, what I know now, I could have avoided affecting my physical health, just by taking care of my mental and emotional health.

    Love ~

  303.  #303Dominique on October 7, 2013 at 8:02 am

    Indigo – 276 – Love to you. <3


  304.  #304Dominique on October 7, 2013 at 8:04 am

    Meg- 279 – Yes it will. It doesn’t make you sleepy. It calms the spinning thoughts.

    It also comes in a lower dosage which is simple called – Calms.


  305.  #305Dominique on October 7, 2013 at 8:11 am

    Zara – 297 – Yes, yes, yes!!! This puzzles me as well.


  306.  #306Indigo on October 7, 2013 at 9:28 am

    Thanks for the love Dominique <3

    And thank you so much for suggesting the Calms Forte, that's definitely what I need. I hope we can get it here.


  307.  #307Radlove on October 7, 2013 at 9:30 am


    231 – Hi! I haven’t read the feedback of others, but here is what I’ve been taught when a man doesn’t tie down the details of a date until the last minute…

    I give them about a 2 or 3 hour window the day of the date. That is, if we had targeted evening, if he hasn’t called by 3 pm or so, I will make other plans. If he finally contacts me, I’ll say, “Oh, I feel bad to miss you, but I hadn’t heard from you, so I went ahead and made other plans.” Other times, another friend will ask me to get together early in the day. I will just go with it if I want to. I don’t want to sit home waiting and wondering, and then possibly be left with no plans at all.

    Rori also goes in depth on this in Commitment Blueprint, along with other programs she has. The exception I make is with R, because he has schizophrenia and it’s honestly difficult for him to plan ahead for a number of reasons. It doesn’t always feel good, but I like him and have decided to just work with him. I have seen him around other activities and he does the same thing, so I know it’s real, and I know it’s not personal.

    I would just keep using positive feeling messages as much as possible. Like early in the planning, let’s say he says, “Hey, I was thinking it would be nice to go out for dinner Saturday night. Are you game?”


    “Ok, cool, well I’ll catch you later.”

    That is a good opportunity to catch it before it becomes an issue. I might say, “Hey, you know, it feels good when I have a solid plan so I can plan around it. What do you think?”

    Then hopefully he will clue in to tie down a definite time and place to meet. If he says, “Yeah, well I don’t know yet what time I’ll be back from the game,” I might say, “I don’t like to have potential plans just hanging in the air. Could we tie down a definite time and place to meet?”

    That last part may not be recommended by Rori, but after SO MANY men just petering out on me, I’ve become quite assertive about that. If they don’t want to make definite plans, I am at the point where I almost intentionally go make other plans. I am really fed up with being left sitting home on a Saturday night after a man doesn’t follow through.

    Then if he contacts me a day or two later after I made other plans, if he says, “So you don’t want to go out with me?”

    I would say, “Oh, that feels weird to hear! I don’t feel that way at all! I just really like having solid plans to plan around. I wasn’t sure if I was going to hear back from you or not, so I made other plans. I really hope to spend more time with you. What do you think?”

    Something like that. And, what do YOU think or feel? 🙂

  308.  #308Indigo on October 7, 2013 at 9:34 am

    Zara 297,

    I can’t help feeling that these coaches who write these articles are insecure, and that they feel somewhat threatened by Rori.

    What I love about Rori is that she has never (to my knowledge) talked negatively or dismissively about anyone else’s work, except to maybe say that she sees things differently. To me, this is what a person secure in their own knowledge and ability does.

  309.  #309Lemonbutter on October 7, 2013 at 9:42 am

    I feel angry right now. It comes and goes.

    Particularly when I remember the times I felt humiliated or used or ignored.

    I feel eager for the anger to pass and for me to stop caring about what happened in the past.

    On a positive, I had a man chase after me yesterday, telling me how beautiful he thought I was, and would I go for a drink with him. I said no…I wasn’t at all attracted to him, but it felt good…if a little weird at one point…to be pursued like that and have someone behave as if I was some mysterious, beautiful creature.

  310.  #310Linda G on October 7, 2013 at 10:08 am

    Radlove & Joy,
    I do this exact thing, and if a guy gets it, next time he makes plans. I had a guy do this 4 times and I even said, I feel better/need a definite plan. He dtill fidn’t get it so I stopped taking his calls

    “I give them about a 2 or 3 hour window the day of the date. That is, if we had targeted evening, if he hasn’t called by 3 pm or so, I will make other plans. If he finally contacts me, I’ll say, “Oh, I feel bad to miss you, but I hadn’t heard from you, so I went ahead and made other plans.”

  311.  #311Veronica on October 7, 2013 at 12:05 pm

    Sophie – 205 – Thank you : ) (big big sunny smile here)

    Lisa -285- Lisa! Hi : ) I was thinking about you and noticed you weren’t on the blog that much.

  312.  #312Veronica on October 7, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    I was banned again for most of the weekend so I am feeling giddy about being able to be here.

    When I was saying goodbye to CultureCD I said exactly how I was feeling – it was so easy that I can’t even remember exactly what I said. He reacted with joy, it’s like his energy level jumped up a couple of notches and he reached out to touch me. I feel startled by how some men just turn like that – we’ll be talking about something mundane and I’ll say how I’m feeling and this incredible energy opens up and comes towards me. Sometimes it’s so vibrant and masculine I wonder if I’ll be able to handle it. But it is so beautiful to see.

    And hours of just talking
    “…we talk as soft as chalk…” : )

  313.  #313sequoia on October 7, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    So this is interesting.
    A new CD we have not met, he asked me when its good for me to meet. I texted wed or thursday.
    He comes back with a text 1 day later saying:
    It could work thursday for him, would I be ok if he tells me shirt notice on thursday.

    the funny thing is that I had this before, with a online cd guy i found attracted and I agreed but than he canceled.
    So this is the second time – and I am ready to try sthg new 😉

    so I texted back: Than let us meet another day. It doesn’t feel good if you are not sure if you can make it.

    I could have also texted. Oh that doesn’t feel good. It would feel better to meet on another day than.
    Might have been a bit more positive.

    I have to say I feel frustration there – they might feel it.The whole thing is just charged for me from the previous guy. And this was a man who even bought his train tickets last minute…I am wondering is this a new trend…man who are just very unorganised and last minute, kind of ‘being in the flow’….

    I will remember what Radlove wrote – giving them 3 hours and if there is no sign – to make other plans. I guess its easy if one is not into the guy.

  314.  #314Liquid Light on October 7, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    Veronica 312 That sounds fantastic!!!

  315.  #315Turquoise on October 7, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    Radlove, that’s great to hear! I’m glad you had a good time!

    Things have been kind of crazy here. Mr. Conversation and I had an argument…not speaking right now. I’m ok with it, he has felt toxic lately. So negative about government, politics, our community, his job, etc. … feels so draining.

    I have a first date planned for Friday… the guy who asked me to the hockey game last week, and a very busy weekend. I’m talking to another guy who sounds really well matched to me, but he lives about 2 hours away. He has family near me, comes here for work sometimes, so we decided to see how it goes…. see what happens.

    There is another local guy that I text with, but haven’t met yet… we have friends in common… kind of interested to see how that goes if we meet up. He smokes though, yuck.

    I find myself having to make time and space in my schedule for a man. I am also making space in my closet…lol, sort of just a visual thing… but who knows, maybe if I create some physical space, the universe will help me out. 🙂

    I relate to the post about holding onto ex’s to not lose the “space”. I understand that quite well.

  316.  #316Shina on October 7, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    Hey Liquid Light,

    Did you see my post to you on #256? (I posted the link where the comments b/n you and I were)

    I’ve been having problems posting anything on here over the weekend, and I just saw that it finally came up as post #256.

    I hope you had a fabulous weekend! xoxo

  317.  #317Liquid Light on October 7, 2013 at 3:51 pm

    Hi Shina

    Thanks, no I hadn’t seen your post 256 until now. I just read your posts from the article quickly and will go back and reread them in more depth. Great stuff!

    Have you thought about being a Rori Raye coach? You should because you are a natural and so good at it! 🙂



  318.  #318Femininewoman on October 7, 2013 at 4:30 pm

    Veronica I got a “”banned” message earlier today too.

  319.  #319Jammy85 on October 7, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    I am in turmoil….. My head tells me not to trust him….it gives me a billion reasons per second not to….my heart says I must trust him…if I want this relationship, I must…

    I don’t know who to listen to……what would Rori do?

  320.  #320Zia on October 7, 2013 at 5:18 pm

    Turquoise 315: I’ve also cleared out space in my cupboard/drawers/bathroom 🙂

  321.  #321Jammy85 on October 7, 2013 at 5:24 pm

    I am actually terrified of trusting him…..if I do then how will I protect myself from hurt?

  322.  #322Jammy85 on October 7, 2013 at 5:32 pm

    My guts are bubbling with fear

  323.  #323Liquid Light on October 7, 2013 at 8:40 pm

    Jammy – I think you should try to trust. If you don’t and are mistrustful towards him then that’s what you will get in return. Just my 2 cents. Good luck!

  324.  #324Linda G on October 7, 2013 at 8:58 pm

    In Rori’s programs, she advises we don’t have to put trust in a man; we need to trust ourselves, our boundaries, knowing wht we will and will not tolerate and being authentic about our feelings

  325.  #325Millie on October 7, 2013 at 9:01 pm

    @Dominique–I love that!!! I may even say it out loud!

  326.  #326Jammy85 on October 8, 2013 at 12:38 am

    Linda, he is constantly pushing my boundaries atm I feel triggered every time I see him x

  327.  #327Femininewoman on October 8, 2013 at 2:04 am

    I wonder why I am banned?

  328.  #328Waterfall on October 8, 2013 at 3:30 am

    I am working hard to achieve my goals, although there are plenty of lumps and bumps along the way..

    I am working hard to learn new skills and that all feels scary but I am prepared to accept that it all feels scary and I may fail..

    I feel excited and full of wonder at what may come my way… boy I am soooo excited I have butterflies..

    I love learning new skills… I love being in the moment… I love being open to surprises and big empty spaces that I need to fill with my own energy…

    Today I am going to CD myself with learning, and working hard and pushing myself… and I can’t wait!

    Go me..

    How are you other sirens today? What are you all up to?

  329.  #329Dominique on October 8, 2013 at 6:30 am

    Jammy – Here are a couple of articles on trust which may help you.


  330.  #330Dominique on October 8, 2013 at 6:30 am

  331.  #331Shina on October 8, 2013 at 8:56 am

    Femininewoman #327:

    I had difficulty being able to post my comments over the weekend and even yesterday (none of my posts would go through), and in my Firefox browser it said that my IP address was “banned”. Not sure if this is what you’re talking about, but when I contacted Rori’s admin I was told that they were experiencing technical difficulties and it seems it was affecting a lot of people.

    They said it should be fixed now, so hopefully none of us have any more difficulty commenting here. Hope that helps!

  332.  #332Shina on October 8, 2013 at 8:57 am

    Liquid Light,

    Thank you for believing in me! That feels AMAZING 🙂 xoxo

  333.  #333Shina on October 8, 2013 at 8:59 am


    Just wanted to tell you that I LOVE your articles. I’ve started reading them and it has really changed my life! Esp in how I interact with my man (he really appreciates it!) 🙂

  334.  #334Indigo on October 8, 2013 at 9:42 am

    Feminine Woman,

    The blog was SO incredibly quiet over the weekend – I wouldn’t be surprised if other people were having difficulties too.

  335.  #335Dominique on October 8, 2013 at 11:23 am

    Shina – Thank you SO much for telling me. 🙂

    Love to you.


  336.  #336Lisa on October 8, 2013 at 8:43 pm

    @Veronica Thanks! {{{Hugs}}} Hi! Yeah I’ve been focusing on getting things back to normal and cleaned up and cleared out and moving forward… Hope your well!

  337.  #337Femininewoman on October 10, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    Thanks Shina. That was exactly what was happening for about a week. I found myself telling myself a lot of stories about it and taking it personal but just decided to relax because I remembered you were having the same difficulties. I felt so shocked just now being able to get through that I felt almost jumping out of my skin.

  338.  #338Alexis Taylor on October 14, 2013 at 6:54 pm

    I think it’s a mistake to think that focusing entirely on yourself is a way to keep a relationship healthy. Guys need love too.

  339.  #339Rori Raye on October 15, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    Alexis, Welcome – and, for me, that’s sort of a “given.” All of my clients and readers are great at what LOOKS like “giving love,” and are not so great at “taking and receiving love.” By taking the focus off a man, you get to see what’s really going on inside yourself – what’s real, what you’re making up, if you’re actually even listening to him and seeing him as a separate person, if you’re trying to hard and working to hard at getting his love…

    Most often – the way a man needs to be loved is to be appreciated for the love he GIVES. When we feel angry, we’re not very good at appreciating. Love, Rori

  340.  #340Madeleine on October 25, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    Hi, I feel so Grateful for Rori’s work. Through that I finally married a lovely man. Who now, not surprisingly also turned in to “another” man.. He is not home right now. He went out the door. I feel I can’t blame him. Allthough, the comment I made was after he lied and also broke one of the two important things I told him before we got married I can’t handle. And he even don’t show regret. And for the first time he refuses to talk to me about it. What does he hide is my question. What does he protect. He feel sad. I said somethings he completely took Word for Word. I feel so fed up of this situation and felt trapped and alone With it for some time. He turned off his phone, or is there a car accident? Sad, I feel sad.

  341.  #341Rori Raye on October 27, 2013 at 2:56 pm

    Madeleine, Welcome, and it’s hard to know what’s going on from your letter. Please interact here and be more specific so we can help – from your letter, you sound very provocative and accusatory, and I’m not sure that’s so – so please give us more detail on these experiences. Are you working with the ebook? Do you understand the “Four Rules”? Love, Rori

  342.  #342Madeleine on October 27, 2013 at 3:16 pm

    Hi, it felt really nice to hear from you Rori. I do not feel centered at the moment. So confused. I believe my husband is truly a good man in so many ways. It feels so confusing. We’re in a process don’t knowing how to move forward. It’s been complicated for some time andre I felt I needed to let him know where I stood. I wrote a feeling message saying I feel, I don’t want to feel like that, I want, what do you think. I believe. . I will check. .perhaps one part wasn’t there. I let himknow that I need to feel that the preassure is releasing from my chest/shoulders. He has to act to do something. I didn’t specifically say I meant “constructive”. Later on I foundout he asked a male friend of mine to buy cannabis. I am against drugs and to much alcohol. I learned that if he chose to smoke a little a couple of times a year with some friend there is little I can do. Asking someone to buy is all though taking that a step further. I feel he takes destructive step forward. The pressure doesn’t release. I feel more stress. He is home a lot abd sometimes driving to town to some jamsession. He would never drive after drinking. So always not drinking. I feel the most confused that he completely don’t want to talk about it. When I said tonight that I’d prefer we talk about this at home together instead of at councling where we ordered an appointment. He says that we will not talk about it home and that is none of there business. I said, that feels so unnecessary than you don’t give me no choice. Just remember you said those things. As a matter a fact I will go and write this down. We have a child 1 year 4 months. I don’t know what to do.

  343.  #343Madeleine on October 27, 2013 at 3:46 pm

    I forgot to answer you. When I wrote that he turned into a “another” man I am referring to reading somewhere about that.. and believe that something in my behavior is turning him into a bad man. Our marriage is going downhill. I suppose although I am accusing him. I don’t know what to do. He doesn’t take nesscesary steps. Been unemployed fo eg for a logo time. Our money is coming to an end soon. How do I feel free in my marriage? How do I do marriage? Unfortunately I can see he doesn’t step up to the plate no more and I feel I don’t know how to handle his rejection.

    I have:
    Have the relationship you want
    Modern Siren
    Targeting Mr Right
    Heart Connection Toolkit
    Reconnect your relationship

    Haven’t had time to reach or listen for some time so not wording with the program I am not surprised I am in this mess. I love my husband. I am willing to work on me. I am not willing to haven’t a relationship that is not “working”. It feels good that you was reading.

  344.  #344Kerry on November 1, 2013 at 11:43 pm

    My boyfriend is still married to his wife and they live together but they sleep in different rooms he said that they have not had a sexual relationships since they separated, i am really worried that there is something going on between them as i have not met his family or any of his friends yet and we have been together for a year.

  345.  #345Rori Raye on November 2, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    Kerry! I’m going to be very, very firm here…you are being taken for a ride. Get off. He is not your boyfriend. He is NOTHING to you as long as he’s still married. Even MORE nothing to you if he’s married and LIVING WITH his wife (I don’t care WHAT the reasons are….!).

    You are NOT “together.” You are a “booty call,” and a nice warm body. Start Circular Dating NOW – do not let ANYTHING stop you, and get as much help as you can from everyone here. Also – please try out my Coach Trainees – they’re free for you until November 21st – look for the page over in the right sidebar, and try them out until you get the help you need. Love, Rori

  346.  #346Jess on November 3, 2013 at 9:28 pm

    I need some major advice! Is this where I would ask questions?

  347.  #347Madeleine on November 4, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    Hi Jess, yes this is where we with feeling messages can talk to one another.

    I feel so sad tonight, lost.. my husband’s totally turned into a complete as hole. He has lied which not support the values of our marriage. He has NEVER behaved defensive ever before. After I found out he asked a friend of mine if he could score some cannabis he totally become defensive every time I try to as tonight make an appointment of a suitable day and time when to talk about this. I told him the other week. – We got married because we want to live together. I love you. I want to make this work. We h a v e to be able to talk about difficultthings. Than I felt he understood.

    I don’t know how to change this situation. I am brought up in a alcoholic inviroment. I don’t feel comfortable having drugs in my line. I feel scared. I don’t know what to do other than start the process of a divorce.

    It feels like his choice, if I do.
    Please, I’m reaching out a hand here is there anyone of you who could guide me trough the programs. I’ve seen them all but don’t have time to see them all again. Or does someone know if it is possible for how to come in contact with Rori in a coaching session. (I will check her website)

    I feel really, really sad.

    I would feel so grateful.


  348.  #348Dominique on November 4, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    Madeleine – I am so sorry for your pain. I understand how confusing and painful this can feel.

    Rori does offer private coaching, and you can reach her through

    And so do I. In case you don’t know who I am, I am her long time friend and the resident coach here. You can click on my name which will take you to my site.

    I send you love.


  349.  #349Madeleine on November 4, 2013 at 6:02 pm

    Hi Dominique, that felt really good to hear. What a cool and coloury website you’ve got. I am posting from my cell phone. It’s in the middle of the night here. I will read when I’m in a computer. I feel I first will try the address you sent to Melanie cause not many weeks ago I finally went into Roris’ s websiteto email her. For a couple of years I’ve thought about contacting her that I want to learn her work to teach others. I met my husband. My lovely loving husband through her work. And there it was the Rori Ray program for learning how to do her work.
    At the moment, ironically, at the end of my maternity leave starting up my business I have to be really, realkr

  350.  #350Madeleine on November 4, 2013 at 6:03 pm

    Sorry. .difficult from phone. .really careful with money. That is so very typical when one really needs help. Thanks Dominique for the information. It means a lot.