How To Forget Him

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Here’s a great question from Karen – something that each of us deal with about many things – not just a man – but it always seems like the man is the most difficult…

“Hi. Do you have any tips on how to really, really, focus on yourself and try to forget the person who broke your heart?

I wrote to you in April and you did help me a lot. I am still working (two jobs), volunteering, getting out there, signing up for classes, dating myself, wearing nice clothes. I also whitened the teeth, lightened the hair, painted the nails (and toes!). Speak mostly in feeling messages to everyone. Every day is a new way to remember and try to use the tools.

Some days are better than others. Have ordered Commitment Blueprint, have put into practice Targeting Mr. Right. Have ordered Heart Connection and love it. Have learned so much, because remember, I don’t have any role models in the “men” department, so everything is new.

Self -esteem is higher than ever, but, some days, still remember him. How do I forget? Because of the industry I am in (TV), for sure I am going to run into him again (for sure) and I do want to make sure that my “vibe” is going to be the right one. And because, I think of him, I am sure the vibe I am giving out to men is an “unavailable one” some days, not every day!

Thank you so much for your programs. Again, they have really helped me. Karen”

And here’s my answer:

Karen – this is a great question – first…

You’re doing so great!!!!

This part is easy! –

1. Don’t TRY to forget him!

2. Just put him on the back of your horse (I write a lot about riding your horse across the landscape of your life and believing it knows the way to your Happy Ever After…you’ve probably seen some posts or articles) – and ride off!

3. Turn him into your “muse” – with lessons to give you and messages to deliver to you.

4. Make him your assistant.

5. Make him useful to you!

6. And then – he’ll just fade, or fall off the horse – and FOR SURE – another man will show up and they you’ll forget you ever used to think about him so much – and still – he might never go away completely.

A few of the men who were significant in my life still visit me in my dreams. I believe they’re there to remind me of things, to bring me gifts, to give me strength and insight…to help me.

I let them help me.

Just think of yourself as full of love for everyone and everything, and that you’re big enough to contain love even for him…and that’s the antidote to fear and pain around it.

You can do this! Love, Rori

Karen answered me back:

“Okay, I feel that I can do this. Put him on the back of my horse and ride off. That feels okay. Make him my assistant, my muse. Okay. I will try this. I will continue with the tools and keeping myself open. I feel the tools are working, little by little.

I smile at everyone and some days I am full of love. I actually have had men coming up and talking to me, a little, so that’s good, because that never happened before and I talk to everyone, so here’s hoping that if I continue to be open and feeling, Mr. Right will show up. If I continue to keep myself open.

I still cry, Rori, some days are better than others. But, at least I am not stuffing my feelings down like I did before and pretending that everything is perfect and okay and being really nice and over functioning.

If I feel tired, I’m tired and if I feel sad, well, I’m sad. Sometimes I feel that I am closing myself off and not being truthful and using the feeling words and messages, so I try and remember to use them with everyone and I have noticed a difference. So, again, I will keep at it.

Okay, I will let you know what happens. Take care always. Karen”

And I answered her simply:

Crying is good.

Now I’ll add a little to this:

Forgetting is way overrated.

The goal here is not to eliminate an attachment or a feeling so you can “move on” – but to move on REGARDLESS of the feelings and attachments!

If we all waited until the path was clear and we could see what was up ahead and we felt good – we’d miss half the wonderful things life offers us.

Sometimes good things show up when we feel lousy.

Sometimes bad things show up when we feel good.

The only thing you need to be is where you are, and how you feel, and aware of what’s going on for you as best you can.

We’re not ever feeling only one thing at a time.

We’re always in a place where we have access to our whole range of feelings – we can appreciate a hummingbird and smile at the very moment we’re pining over a man.

We can love our dog or cat or bird or fish or mouse in the very moment we feel broken by hurt.

An entire evening with a new Circular Date you may not be “interested” in or attracted to ( perhaps not attracted only in your old pattern ways…) may not feel altogether great – but there were moments where you learned something, or tried a Tool and it worked and made you feel good, or saw a movie you really, really liked, or ate a good meal, or felt yourself be totally present and if you let yourself, you might have been amazed at how great and powerful that felt – and that may be WAY enough to call that evening “LIVING.”

And living way beats trying to beat away the bad feelings or the memories, or anything else.

Just let things come and go – and see if you can keep the vision in your head of moving forward – always – no matter how it may seem to you.

Sometimes moving forward looks like scooting sideways. Don’t be the judge of things…be the liver of your life.

Love, Rori


  1.  #1Daria on August 3, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    when i think of my life going forward i feel so much disappointment. i feel unhappy with where i am at.

    there was so much more i wanted to have done, like be a billionaire and written some books, and sung on stage and been a famous actress

    i feel sad

    i love my sadness

    i love my disappointed feeling heart

    i love my fear of not being good enough

    of being so lost to lose everything my parents worked for

    i feel so angry to feel judged

    i feel angry at the world

    i feel confused with the split in the world

    i feel sad

    here i go forward, sigh, i feel so sad

    im already tired

    i dont want to keep going now, with this burden, dragging it out

    just kill me already

    it was fun while it lasted

    but what possibly could go right now

    what could make it fun and adventurous, and RIGHT

    i feel so sad

    so im supposed to get a great love story but

    that has always seemed so unlikely

    who knows it can still come

    so i guess ill drag itou

    another few lifetimes worth

    i really thought my mom would be happy by now

    i really thought that they would see my benefits now

    but they dont

    and shes not

    and i feel so sad

    i feel crying and heartbreak

    i had some magical life moments

    but the last few years fell back into the opressive boringness

    like bieng in the 6th grade and wishing and praying to be popular

    and chances to connect with the cool people come maybe once a year

    and thats it

    that changed

    and i changed

    and i still feel

    like that now

    i feel crying and pain and i dont know why

    i just feel so sad now

    no one is calling me

    and when no one is calling me

    and i want to be called

    i feel sad

    i feel stuck bored and i do not like feeling that way so much

    i feel so saddd

    i love my feelings

    i love me

    i feel sorry for me and my pain

    i feel desperate to feel surrounded by people and ARRIVED

    and safe and loved

    forever not just

    for this 5 minutes when everyone wants my attention

    my cat loves me… he is here..

    and now hes drinking my water


  2.  #2Daria on August 3, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    i look like a 16 year old

    i feel like a 16 year old

    i look at my mom and how much she s aged in teh past two years. after that hysterectomy

    and i feel sad

    i feel sad for her because i think she might care

    and because shes been so beautiful forever

    and because she just does nad does

    and seems to be doing more… since i gave her Rori’s book and pointed to doing less

    and i feel sadddddddd

    i feel sooo saddddd

    i am just bawling

    i feel so sad for my mom,

    i feel so sad for me

    the lil boy girl who is now aging forward

    despite being

    only 16 for
    the past decade or so

    i feel tears

    i feel sad

    i feel wailing

    so sad

  3.  #3Daria on August 3, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    i have this stupid disease or affectation

    from having sex with a boy who wasn’t in love with me

    i feel like im being punished

    for being adventurous with my sex

    i went out happy

    and look what happened

    fix it now


    ive stopped worrying about it

    its been so much energy i put into it

    that maybe im holding on to it after all

    maybe i can live without it my whole life

    just fine

    like living without a limb

    but much better

    i used to be scared of living my whole life ina wheelchair

    but im not so scared now

    or of being locked up for life

    not so scared

    i feel dreary and sad

    but i feel strong

    thats GOOD!!

    i feel excited to notice
    that these two big fears
    are not so scary

    maybe i will be an amazing magician

    like i always wanted to be when i was little

    and have super powers

    what i already did find
    some magic

    and now

    maybe i will click into it

    to where i can rely on me

    and feel like wow

    and maybe even my parents will see

    and feel like wow

    that would be cool

    i guess thats whats going on

    with my life

    did i mention that living wiht no money at all is going great?

    men are taking care of me

    and so are my “friends” which are more like men too,

    or rather i feel like ima pimp and theyre my b*tches

    im not trying to pimp them out tho

    isnt that kind of me

    its actually only one girl

    the other one i got mad at

    but its not really a problem

    i expect and am entitled to everyone taking care of me

    and there it is

    take care of me world



    a parasite

    a “scavenger” as mr push button getright man said

    oh well

    i do believe

    that even though i may feel attacked

    i deserve it

    yes i do

    i am a gift


    do you really believe you’re all that and that everyone should take care of you daria?

    well, yes. i do believe that

    i can hear a poster saying, wow this girl is really something, spoiled, selfish, vain, arrogant, I don’t want to be like her

    i love my feelings of fear and being judged

    i don’t want to work hard

    i dont want to feel unworthy

    i love my feelings

    i want to work hard when it feels good.

    like say this comment would count as working hard

    all this writing

    and expressing

    thats hard work right

    even though

    its easy

  4.  #4Daria on August 3, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    Roberto says:

    She is unbelievable. and even if there’s the slightest chance that i could end up with her and be happy with her, i’ll take it. Even if there’s a chance that my heart will end up broken. I mean to me, that’s worth it. And i Want to take that chance. Daria’s the kind of girl that you take that chance for.

  5.  #5gina on August 3, 2010 at 8:40 pm

    I feel furious at the boy who is married who lied to me at work. I feel hatred I feel anger. I feel frustrated that I feel affected at all. He was talking about D – calling him chubby, and putting me down, being sarcastic. I’m not sure why – it seems like he hates that I don’t care about him, jealous that I’m in a good relationship, and miserable. I’m feeling less furious. But when he does that, I want to do something violent to him I feel so angry. I feel simultaneously guilty for it. I love my anger I love my guilt. I love that I’m strong enough to want to protect myself, yet soft enough to not want to hurt him, even though he’s being a prick. I love that I have a great relationship with Derek – today he brought me breakfast, and then he delivered my keys to me at work, and I gave him a piece of pie. And then when I was so furious about the boy at work, but when i talked to D on the phone, he told me that he cleaned my apartment for me. Aaaaah, it felt so good… I was crying when I got home, I was so touched and happy. Now I feel grateful to the boy for offering such stark contrast between boys like him and the wonderful man I’m with. Aaaah…I feel eased…

  6.  #6lm on August 3, 2010 at 10:20 pm

    i read a book on my deck today and drank a beer in the sun. i did inner bonding with my facilitator from georgia on skype. i walked down to the trendy part of town and 3 guys whistled at me while i walked. i ate sushi with my friend.

    i love my life. i feel amazing. and tired.

    i still feel love for the guy who hurt me, but i feel more and more and more for myself and for everyone else.


  7.  #7Brenda on August 4, 2010 at 7:29 am


    Once again, this is an excellent article. I really appreciate your writing, and the care and love that come thru in what you say.

    I like how you center on really LIVING. That is what I noticed about before, during, and after my relationship with Ryan. He DID come to me during a time when I was sad and not feeling “ready”. I was in depression, and he just came to my house, night after night, and hung out with me. He accepted me even tho I was unkempt (being that he was 15 years younger, I didn’t see him as a love interest. He led me to believe he was just coming over to have a buddy). I was munching out on peanut M&Ms right in front of him. My house was a mess. And he accepted me right through it all.

    Gradually, he brought me to LIFE! Instead of passing time bored blankly watching TV or fooling around on my computer, we were pillow talking, going places, cuddling…LIVING! I relished it, and the weight started dropping off; I was loaded with energy; and I smiled and walked on air!

    After the relationship ended, last October, I slipped back into depression, and, I admit, I have yet to come out. I have done my best to stay ALIVE. I keep reminding myself of the central theme of the movie, “The Shawshank Redemption”: “You’re either busy LIVING or busy dying.”

    I still have days when I ruminate, cry, and sleep all day. But they are getting less and less, and this blog with all my new friends is a big part of coming out of depression. Right now I am crying, because I miss Ryan and all the emotionally intimate times we shared.

    So now I am choosing, day by day, to LIVE, and for me, that means at least 15 minutes a day doing something to pull my life out of the blackhole into which it’s fallen. For example, last night, I updated my resumes and cover letters for finding a more interesting job. I gave my dogs flea shampoos, after having a handy man install a shower with a hose. The night before, I did 3 weeks worth of laundry.

    I am trying to get my house in a state of neatness and cleanliness so if the moment arises, I can freely invite a man to my house. It’s a daily struggle, because in depression, all I want to do is come home and lie down to cuddle with my dogs while I watch a movie or talk on the phone. But living necessitates that I face my job, face my bills, and face my “do” list so that I don’t lose everything for which I’ve worked so hard.

    And circular dating along with that is helping me to LIVE with more enjoyment. I am choosing to see dates as gifts to myself, times when I can treasure pleasure.

  8.  #8Brenda on August 4, 2010 at 7:43 am


    Even in your sadness, your writing is beautiful. I just want to give you a big hug!

    I relate to a lot of what you said, and in my strong moments, I have come to see this craving for more and for being already arrived as an opportunity for developing that greatness and amazingness.

    For example, 12-13 years ago, I was acquainted with a couple in my church who had it all. He earned over $100,000 a year, and she was a stay at home Mom. When we shared prayer requests, mine centered around survival items, like a home, a job, food…while her prayer request one night was that the gas fireplace installer would come the next day as scheduled. He hadn’t come that day, and it had thrown her whole schedule off.

    I felt disgust, I admit, and it seemed so frivolous and shallow. I couldn’t help but compare myself with her, because we were the same age. The main difference was that she had money. She had everything I wanted: a husband, children, and a secure life. And I felt condescended to. I reasoned that if it weren’t for her rich husband, she wouldn’t have any of that.

    I processed that a lot of years, until I realized if she did fall on hard times, God forbid, she would have no idea how to care for herself, and she would probably crumble emotionally. I realized that, as difficult as the hard times were and are, and as lonely as it was being single, I had developed a depth and strength that were worth even more than having a settled, secure family life. My inner remodelling is messy at times, like a kitchen all ripped apart…but the end result will be stunning! 🙂

    Now when I go into marriage in my future, I will have my depth and strength, AND a settled, secure family life.

  9.  #9Lisa (from across the pond!) on August 4, 2010 at 9:12 am

    This article and the comments touched me so.. Heartbreak is painful.. I have been in the black hole of despair at times this past coupel of weeks and then at other times, feel so much love and gratefulness for my life!

    I read this a while ago about breakup..its by David Deida and it really helps me:

    “Even after you leave your man, you will feel a ‘him shaped void’ in your heart and body. you will miss him, long for him, hope that he calls you and tells you he can change..your him-shaped void yearns to be filled by ‘him’.

    “this sense of longing for the man who was able to love you most deeply so far will last until another man loves you deeper. you will retain the ‘him-shaped’ void for the rest of your life, unless you attract a man of deeper loving into your lfie. this is all natural…. eventually you will only tolerate a man who can offer you this divine and utter claim. his deep presence will ravish you open…..”

    Having said that, I have just returned from a date, nice enough guy but I would ‘chew him up’ shy.. and I came back moping and just wanting ‘the one man’ back… ugh!

  10.  #10Karen on August 4, 2010 at 9:23 am

    Thank you Rori. This helps even more.

    Thank you girls. I have loved all your comments.

  11.  #11Brenda on August 4, 2010 at 10:49 am

    Lisa, Thank you for sharing this quote! It is beautiful and healing!

  12.  #12Patricia Powell on August 4, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    These quotes are good, but I cannot seem to have grabs of what to do in a relationship that i am experiencing. thanks Trish

  13.  #13Lucy on August 4, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Brenda, I feel so proud of you, reading #7. <3

    Lisa, the quote is beautiful!

    "…this sense of longing for the man who was able to love you most deeply so far will last until another man loves you deeper.."

    That part feels so mysterious, miraculous, and hopeful.

    "the man who was able to love you most deeply so far" — it feels weird and sad to realize that that man was TN man. That seems pathetic, that THAT was the deepest I've been loved by a man. But I guess I'm judging myself by saying it's pathetic. It is what it is.
    It also feels GOOD thinking that he was "the man who was able to love me most deeply so far." It feels REALLY good. Right now I can actually FEEL that love! I feel surprised! I actually feel his love for me still! Im feeling that he was able to love me deeply, but not deeply enough — not because of me, but because of him. This feels like a breakthrough moment right now. Also, if he loves me more deeply than any man before, then I must be heading in the right direction! I must be getting closer to the man who "loves me deeper." That feels great to believe!

    It also feels comforting to ACCEPT that the longing will LAST until another man loves me more deeply. I can embrace my longing for TN man.

  14.  #14dorothea on August 4, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    Brenda, thank you for sharing so openly about how life and depression has been for you.

    I have been depressed since I graduated college. Over a year. A year before graduation I ended a 2 yr abusive relationship, and came out of daily suicidal tendencies. After graduation depression returned without the nagging suicidal thoughts.

    My house is a constant wreck. I cry easily. Some days are awesome and I forget the heaviness of feeling low. Some days are a black hole of despair. I have gained 25 pounds in the last year.

    i woke up feeling so awful today. my LI and I have been emailing today and he offered to help me with lifestyle changes that will help pull me out of depression. Like exercising and eating better. He really cares. I finally admitted to myself and then to him that I can’t do this all on my own. I do so much with my waking hours and staying on top of a positive and healthy lifestyle is another project I can’t have on my plate.

    Having this blog and rori’s tools and direction are the main thing that have kept it all from spiraling into a suicidal death demon. Relationships with men have always been the one thing that can trigger me into extreme despair. At least in that realm I am actually doing better than a lot of my non-depressed friends.

  15.  #15dorothea on August 4, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    Also, brenda, i totally want your job. I hope you find one you really feel passionate about though:) funny how different thing appeal to us all differently.

  16.  #16Daria on August 4, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    I noticed a lot of “successful” people I know talking about… I’m quitting my job and doing what I want in life.

    Now Im like, so did I have it right after all…

    I love me and my doubt and my happy

  17.  #17Daria on August 4, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    did I say “a lot” i meant one and maybe more lol resonance makes it feel like a lot

  18.  #18Brenda on August 4, 2010 at 2:09 pm


    I have a WONDERFUL CD set by Tony Robbins, the Ultimate Edge. He TOTALLY encourages people to take the risk to have the life they want!!! Go for it!

    And there’s another one I want to get by Wayne Dyer, “Excuses Be Gone!” He goes thru the most common excuses people have for not pursuing their dreams and desires. Then he says, “Imagine what you could do if you had NO fear and NO limitations! It is truly inspiring! I’m on the fast track to figuring out how I can start my own business AND go back to school! I vote for my dreams!

  19.  #19Brenda on August 4, 2010 at 2:19 pm


    You’re welcome. Thank God I haven’t struggled much with being suicidal, but I relate to most of what you say. I was suicidal for two days after Ryan did the fake proposal, and I even wondered if Ryan’s goal was for me to commit suicide. I’ve concluded that he is happy I am alive, but the evil forces within him wanted me dead. Also, I was suicidal the day after New Year in 2000, when I was STILL single.

    I have concluded that suicide is the ultimate expression of self-pity, and it’s the chicken-sh*t way out. So I won’t go that path. And I know that J*sus wants me prosper and be in health, while the evil one wants to kill and destroy me. So I won’t give him that satisfaction. I’ve also realized that if God put me on the earth, He must want me here. So all that has taken away suicidal thoughts.

    I feel I need support, too, to get out of depression. That is part of why I am here and also going to counseling, as I have since last fall. I was off anti-depressants since 2008, but I recently decided to get back on them. I am about to pursue that…one more thing on my do list, to see my doctor for that.

    What helped me pull out of the blackhole of depression in the past was feeding my mind positive thoughts, and then the positive feelings followed. I do that now with limited success. But, until the last couple of weeks, Ryan has been so heavily on my heart that I just couldn’t rise above it.

    I finally feel at peace with him, and it helps mostly that he is communicating and friendly now. He has made it clear that it’s not really about me. It’s about him. He’s focusing on himself to deal with getting rid of schizophrenia.

    I am focusing on me. My main goals are to lose weight, get my life in order, find emotional healing, and get out of debt. My ultimate goal is to be in a position to be more a part of the answer than part of the problem. I want to help people.

    I feel so much better emotionally thanks to all of you, and especially Rori! It really is hard work, but the payoff is well worth it! I want to be the best me I can be!

  20.  #20dorothea on August 4, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    What I do is go through the appropriate motions for making my dreams come true, and I find that as long as I am faithful to the process, everything will fall in place. It’s not always easy but I have accomplished so much that people ask me if i have a guardian angel. the answer, of course, is YES. An angel who awards my affirmations as I express them through tangible actions towards what i want.

  21.  #21dorothea on August 4, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    The universe hears me when I affirm what i want in life. it gives it to me because i give it a channel to give it to me by working toward something. like they say, 90% of success is simply showing up.

  22.  #22Brenda on August 4, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    I just had a nice chat with Bill! He saw me in the aisle and asked how I was doing. I mouthed, “I’m bored!” He invited me over to his desk to discuss our document project. Then we got into a cool conversation about Amish people and wildlife (two unrelated topics). He winked at me when I was teasing with our friend, Mark. I feel such warmth from him, and I could totally have a happy life with him. I feel like I have a lot in common with him, since we were both raised in the country. I feel happy he talked with me. I wish he had invited me to his fishing trip tonight where he’s going with Mark.

  23.  #23lm on August 4, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    yay brenda!

  24.  #24Brenda on August 4, 2010 at 2:28 pm


    That’s beautiful! I stopped at a convenience store today, where I’m acquainted with some of the employees. I said something about it’s supposed to rain most of the day. She said, “No, it isn’t! I don’t want it to rain! I have people!” She pointed up, smiling. “I can’t say for sure, but I have people!” It was a cute way of expressing her faith that it wouldn’t rain…and it didn’t! 🙂

  25.  #25Brenda on August 4, 2010 at 2:28 pm


    How’s it going with the newspaper article hitting the public eye? Thinking bout ya!


  26.  #26Lisa (from across the pond!) on August 4, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    I am really welcoming this forum’s support this time around.. I am determined to give this CD thing, RR tools the full 90 days just to see if things happen for me!

    At the beginning of July, (when I was still sort of with ‘him’ and attempting to CD at the same time -god!)… I started to write a blog..sharing my journey and realisations..not only about relationships but also writing about my deeper connections with nature/earth..and not relying on a man for fulfillment in my life.. I’ve had a great response to it..but also some fall-out! This last three weeks seem to have been quite a space for ‘clearing out’ what doesnt serve any more including friends…lots of planetary stuff going on as well…for us all!

    If you are interested it is at

    but I want to continue to talk out the CD stuff on this forum, as I need all your hints and tips to see it through..I feel!

    Just gone through the internet dating sites..and its all gone quiet..and I just keep thinking about ‘him’ being out enjoying himself..bah!

  27.  #27Daria on August 4, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    Lisa – if you put your blog http as your Website when you sign in, then we can click in to your blog thru your name! I should set mine up now again too because it isnt connected

  28.  #28Daria on August 4, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    i am the magic goddess medicine woman

  29.  #29Daria on August 4, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    red vulva

    i said it

    i go


  30.  #30Daria on August 4, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    oh no i feel misunderstood. i feel like im doing what i want right now. oh nooo this feels bad. i dont feel good. i feel misunderstood… this feels bad… oh noooooooooooo…. i said one thing and they understood something else and now they’re saying not what i said to me … oh noooo… this is terrible terrible ohhhhh it feels awful… oh i feel gross… i feel incompetent …i feel unseen… i feel not good… i feel sick… i dont like this feeling… i love my feelings. i feel bad. bad. bad. bad. bad. bad.; bad. bad. bad . i feel like an infant bad. i feel renejected to the untomst level i feel rebeleisouse now yes i do i feel rebelious i feel stomp foot i feel demanding i feel angry i feel spit on you i feel hit you with my fists i feel stomp stomp stomp stomp stomp i feel so mad so mad so mad so mad so mad so mad os mad so mad os mda so amd mad mad mad mad mda i love my mad feelig it feeeeels so good like being a rush on top of a wabe crashing it feels so good up my n eck and into my pussy yes i said it and my tongue and i t feels like its running up an my neck stretches up and then i feel like im drawing back and i feel disoriented and lost and not high no more juse laying back and i dont like it i dont like this feeling right now of slipping down the chari the chair and it is all too much just from feeling misundestood and i feel this way everytime

    and i loe my fellings and i feel powerless and im screaming i love my feelings anyway goddamit that is my lifeline right now and i do i do i do i do i do i do do i do dio i od i do i do ido i doi do ido ido dio im stopmping for i do i stomping for me i doodoododdodododoodododododododododododododododododododododooddoododododododoodododododododododdodododooddodooddododooddoodo]
    and this feels toog doo and i want to stop now and feel excited to read it over aagin i am exhilarated by myself i feel shame and i dod dodododoododod love meeee and my shame tooo and theat feels loooossssssssssooo exhilarating omg it feels great and i feel good and soothed and happy i feel like laughing a LOT right now omg i am laughin iout loud omg omg this is crazy i think i just had anemotional orgasm fore eal or mthis is like the sou p thing where my emotions morphed and now i am at the happy thisng and i feels odooo good and sooo great and so important and so supporeted and understood and loved and aaaaack trickgger at loved and the other thing was got? i want to feel got like Rori says. i realy like that . it means anything i want it to. so yeah you have to understand stret knowledge and street derms goddamt yes i care about this because I said so stomp and tear and i stand for MY self and i CARE about MYSELF and I FEEL RIGHTEOUS AND POWERFUL AND STRONG AND I LOVE ME AND I SHOUT OUT FOR THE POWER AND OUTOPOUR OF ME I AM GODDDESSS DARIA AND I LOVE ME AND I FEEL ASHEAMED TO AND I LOVE ME ANYWAY AND I FEEL AFRAID AND I LOVE ME ANYWAY AND I FEEL NUMB AND LOST AND ASTOPPED AND I LOVE MY ANYWAY AND NOW I FEEL bad and lost and sad and small again, i feel sad, for me poor lost and icky feeling me, like getting pulled back by the wave… i feel excited the knowledge to save me, this just happend, this emotional pulling, back i can DO this i feel tired i feel afraid i love me i love it i feel excited i can do this and i feel afraid and i feel kinda tired and afraid oh noooooo i love my feelings ANYWAY and i want to stop. and i love my feelings.

  31.  #31Daria on August 4, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    i feel successful in life right now but i feel afraid to feel that way because other people say im not and they feel angry at me and then they attack me

    and i feel happy with waking up and then meeting men and chilling all day

    i feel like my life is great and i feel successful, but nothign other people say indicate that this is successful

    so i feel afraid of the whole of humanity

    i feel like a beggar monk

    i feel good

    i feel happy

    i feel good

    i feel happy

    i feel good

    i feel happy

    i feel STOP tightened at the chest


    how do i feel?

    i feel excited and joyful that i gt to sleep in , just like i wanted, and i dont have worries, im makinga relaxing life for myself, thats what i want, relaxing, and man, and family, and beautiful air

  32.  #32Bella on August 4, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    I can completely relate to the depression side of things, and for years and years I’ve always felt like a misfit because of it, and so ashamed. I so miss the physical touch as well as the emotional connection. My mother is really the only person I feel comfortable hugging now. When I visit my family and someone else hugs me, I usually put my arm in front in a defensive mode and half hug them. . . .I feel concerned that I do this, but it is an automatic response that I am trying to be more aware of.
    Brenda I totally get what you are saying about feeling so Alive when you felt loved, I was the same way! I lost weight, felt positive and good about myself, had amazing energy!! But, we forgot, or in my case, never knew how to love ourselves!! We depended too much on men who aren’t even capable of loving us like we deserve in the first place. I was also involved with a manipulative con artist, and just trying to sort out the feelings of betrayal, confusion, embarrassment, humiliation, and anger (just to name a few) can be overwhelming and depressing. I feel numb and full of rage at the same time, but I am learning to sort through and actually let myself “feel” what I am feeling for the first time in my life. I am giving myself permission to love and accept my feelings, and usually this ends up in fits of crying, but it’s okay. . . . .it is a healing process, I am so thankful for Rori and these tools, it is helping me to learn to love myself and my feelings and to HONOR ALL my feelings and my depression, even if I can only do baby steps right now. I can feel myself changing and shifting and it feels scary but also very powerful. In the past six months I have been betrayed by a man that I loved, and my entire circle of friends. Never have I felt more alone, but I also feel that I am learning a very important lesson here, and looking back, those people were not good for me.
    I am thankful to have a circle of friends here, and for all of you beautiful ladies who share so openly. It is a safe place for me.

  33.  #33Lizzie on August 4, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    Dorothea and Brenda – beautiful sirens suffering the impact of depression – I had embarked on a huge journey back to life following a huge trauma – I lost everything. I am one of those people that you read about: discovered very suddenly I and my children were no longer safe, my ex emptied all bank accounts and all lines of credit and and and…I went home, put the kids in the car, drove around, saw a sign, called the guy, saw the filthy apartment – it had 3 bedrooms and parking, I said I would move in tomorrow. He said, you can’t…., I said you don’t understand, we are not safe…he said, move in. I said I have no money to make a down-payment on the rent, he said move in and pay next month. I moved my two little kids the next day – I didn’t even have credit to buy groceries. I lost my business, my house, my extended family, all my money for years to come…I had my kids and my brains and started over. One step at a time. I began to climb out of the horrific spiral that sucked me into the vortex. Working was one thing I could do, learning how to live quite something else. These are what I did to learn how to live:
    – every day I walked in the park; I became aware of the feel of fresh air on my body, in my lungs, I could feel it give life
    – I could feel the grass beneath my feet, I could feel the life of spring and summer flowers, I listened to the birds, I listened for the worms
    – I listened for the sound of life in trees
    – I listened for the sunshine
    – I breathed in the scent of the moon when I would walk in the evening
    – my kids were very young, I could only leave them for 20 minutes at a time, but I did this every day without fail
    – I felt mother earth give me back my life
    – I cooked delicious things with my bare hands – also because I needed to teach my kids how to feel life – we made banana bread by hand; we made biscuits by hand; we made chocolate chip cookies – smelling tasting feeling
    – I wrote in a journal
    – I wrote poetry
    – I wrote stories about the funny things my kids did
    – I wrote about my despair

    these are some of the things I did to give myself back my life and to create a safe place for my children to begin to feel love and cherished – and to do that I had to love myself – I had to find a way to give myself life first.

    I encourage you and support you as you find a way to give yourself life and joy and love.

  34.  #34Jennifer on August 4, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    I got flirted with today.
    I got a little stunned when it happened.
    I got my oil changed. The guy at the counter was a guy I knew from school. We chatted about Etesting for cars. He asked where in town I was getting it done..I told him. He said if I had any trouble there to go to another place…and if that didn’t work to let them know he’s available to come down and straighten them out.
    So that’s flirting right?

  35.  #35Lizzie on August 4, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    awesome flirt! you go girl!!
    What about the doctors – any singles there???

  36.  #36Jennifer on August 4, 2010 at 7:45 pm

    LOL! Lizzie!
    I saw one hottie doc on Eharmony but I’m too shy to contact him.
    There’s a cool looking guy on pof but I don’t know what to say…I can’t find the wink button.
    One guy put on POF that his dog died from cancer I felt so sad! I emailed that I felt so sad about that. I felt like crying.

  37.  #37lovely lady on August 4, 2010 at 8:41 pm

    Hi Daria,
    I didnt read all your stuff but the poem at the beginning of these comments, it was very honest and its good. I am in a similar mood so it struck a chord. Rori Ray is like a guiding angel, thats why I came to this internet cafe to study read her words, and the words of other women, it helps.

  38.  #38gina on August 4, 2010 at 10:56 pm

    I just want to gush about how happy I feel with D. I felt horrible earlier cause I accidentally abandoned my purse on a porch near my downtown apartment. Somebody took the wad of cash that I had been intending to deposit along with a stack of checks, all totalling about 400$, but the wallet itself was returned to me with credit cards and ID intact. I felt rotten and sinking introversion, insecurity and general badness. When he got off work tonight, D brought over salad and asparagus and lemon cake (my favorite items from the high-end restaurant where he’s a chef). He gave me a massage and cleaned all the dishes up after me. It felt difficult to receive all his love cause it was so much and I felt overwhelmed and the creeping feelings of unworthiness threatened every moment. He kept telling me how much he loves me and wants me to feel nothing but happy cause that’s what I deserve. It felt amazing to be so loved!

  39.  #39Tina on August 4, 2010 at 11:57 pm

    I took an abusive relationship test online and it said “moderately abusive” yikes what does that mean? well from what the results say , it will only get worse because the “relationship” is new. ok

  40.  #40Tina on August 5, 2010 at 12:01 am

    is taking me grocery shopping a date? i dont think so.

  41.  #41Tina on August 5, 2010 at 1:01 am

    A better man will come along, I feel kinda bad about knowing this. I still am evaluating, i dont know why, I just am. I really should be cd’ing, I know this. I mean dating other men. I’ll have to end this “relationship” soon, Im afraid. I know what i have to do. or end the exclusivity part at least.

  42.  #42Lisa (from across the pond!) on August 5, 2010 at 1:17 am

    Lizzie – wonderful, wonderful things to do… Yesterday, I re-potted all my plants, got my hands dirty in the soil, visited my woods again, hugged the trees (yes – can feel sometimes like they are making love to me!), cuddled my dog, walked barefoot on the earth, bled into the earth… all to re-connect…

    Tina – I was in an abusive relationship for a short while and didnt realise it.. it sucked me in gradually…I didnt see the warning signs..thought I could help him.. we cant..they have to see their behaviour themselves.. I cant find on here where you have written about this guy… but dont invest in him if hes coming out as toxic… just not worth your heart..

    Daria – I have tried to do that link but dont think I got it working…

    I woke up with cold/throat lurgy.. feel awful and been dreaming all night of ex! I was living with him and his ex partner..all together in a house.. but one day he asked me to leave, very cold..he was so loving with her.. she asked me to stay though… then outside all these women were putting their head into lion’s mouths! really weird.. but woke up realising that there had always been three in that relationship! He had never stopped loving her! She was always around energetically..even though she has moved on herself in real life..

  43.  #43Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 1:27 am


    You are an amazing woman to have survived all that with the laugh-out-loud attitude you have towards life! Wow.

    That’s amazing the man let you move in. Wasn’t there any legal recourse after your ex robbed you?

    I feel you on getting in touch with nature. I’ve done the same all my life, and it all started without me knowing what I was doing, from the time I can remember. I realized now I unconsciously protected myself from the emotional abuse all around me in my home.

    I would go out in fields and woods almost every day. I would lay on the ground and try to figure life out in the dirt between blades of grass and dry shrunk mud and clouds. I studied animals and developed some level of communication with them. I talked with God.

    I still do it, and I literally heard termites chewing up a picnic table this spring! I appreciate how you said you heard worms; tasted the sun; etc. I can relate.

    Bella, I relate to a lot you say too. I think we have gone thru similar experiences with men.

  44.  #44Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 1:29 am

    Jennifer, sometimes when I don’t see a “wink” button, I just write hello from my town. I like your pictures and profile!

  45.  #45Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 1:42 am

    I feel happy cuz Ryan texted me Wednesday evening! I admit, I contacted him first. Yesterday I texted him that I was dating many men to see which one would make me happy. He wrote back, “That’s fine”. Wednesday evening, I wrote that he’s a handsome hunk with a very handsome face!

    He wrote back, “And you are a beautiful lady.”

    I wrote: “Awww! Thank you! :-)”

    He wrote: “I’m going to bed now. I go to bed early now.”

    I wrote: “Wow! Good job! You’re so disciplined! I’m going swimming.”

    You gotta understand this texting was monumental to me after months of little contact, and even less positive contact. I thought it was cute he was letting me know that he was going to bed early, at 9 pm. When we were dating, he typically went to bed anywhere between 12 am – 5 am, and he slept till 12 pm – 5 pm. He had to take meds to sleep, so at least once a week, he’d just not take his meds and stay awake for 2 days. So more often than not, his sleep schedule was messed up.

    I thought it was cute he was letting me know he was getting that aspect of his life together. And, I wonder if he is being friendly as a result of me telling him I am circular dating! >;-)

    In any case, I feel really happy, and it made my day! I hopped in the swimming pool with a feeling of more energy and joy than usual! Of course, it didn’t hurt that Bill was so warm to me Wednesday, too! Finally, I am starting to feel the effects of circular dating. Yeah, it really IS empowering. I get to choose.

    Stand in line, gentlemen!

  46.  #46Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 1:44 am

    Daria, was your feeling of being misunderstood related to what I said? If so, what?

  47.  #47Candy on August 5, 2010 at 2:42 am

    Hi Rori,

    Thanks that I have found your materials. I have listened to all your discs and finally, I have started CDing. It feels good to receive attention from men. But then I have a question.

    So, being a siren is about having boundaries and ready to walk away when things do not please us, that I have power and have high degree of difficulty. How would the guy I am dating feel?

    I asked this because I know how it feels when the other person is CDing. My ex, he could be caring and affectionate (heart open) one time but so ready to walk away at another time. A man who has options, who is not focused on you, who has a lot of power, who does not take any shit, thus so ready to get up and go when anything is not to his liking. I felt always on eggshell. I felt that he has power. I felt that his energy is not all towards me. He was so easily upset and blamed me for making his time less than happy or life less than convenient. He easily initiated breakups.

    Well, everyone deserves to be happy but life is not always rosy. I mean not in a material way, but emotionally. People have expectations no matter how little it is, how carefully one controls not to project it on another person, nor how care-free a person is. And there are definitely times when some expectations are not met. No one is my identical twin and even if there is another me, I may still disappoint myself sometimes. So if whenever mismatch of expectations happens, I can jump up and walk away, what would it feel like for the guy?

    How should my mindset be? When I juggle several people, my mind cannot possibly be at rest or focus on one person, on that one relationship to make it work. What is the implication for me then? Even I zip open my heart every time, but at the back of my mind, consciously or subconsciously, I know that I can always walk away. It feels good to have power but how is it good for the end result? The other person, if he is serious and focus, I am sure he can feel my non-readiness to dedicate or put effort in making rough patch work and may back up.

    Also, we like men who really want us and would step up with small dose of desperation (so we feel that we are valued). Is there any gender difference? I guess men need to feel the same too? Feeling being needed and respected? That he is not on eggshell that I am not so ready to go whenever there is imperfection?

    So, how to CD without both confusing myself and generating vibes that may make him feel that I am insincere or superficial? I would be very grateful for some advice on this. Thank you.

  48.  #48Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 3:24 am

    Hi Candy,

    I know your question is directed to Rori, and that I am not qualified to answer it. But I’d like to discuss it with you, because it is a complex question and worth pondering. So please bear with me as I think out loud a little…

    I was in an exclusive relationship with Ryan last year, which became exclusive before I started listening to Rori’s CDs last April 2009. I gave this man my heart and soul, and I was (and am) deeply in love with him.

    He felt HIS power more and more, and he took full advantage of it, like a kitten feeling a powerless mouse between his paws for the first time and not knowing what to do with it. A guy friend broke that dynamic down to me, and he told me I need to take back my power by not being so available to him, etc.

    I saw the dynamic, logically, yet emotionally, by then I was like a drunk lost in the sauce…I just wanted to be with Ryan, and my neediness became more and more pronounced as he toyed with me.

    It was only then that I realized the value of Rori’s circular dating tool. Up until then, I thought she was wrong, and that it was no way to develop the devotedness and trust essential to a successful marriage. All of a sudden, it was THE solution!

    I told Ryan I was going to start dating other men, and I was going to keep dating until I had a ring on my finger. I did this not to hurt him, but to be above board with him, to let him know I was no longer exclusive with him. Even then, he tried to keep leverage over me by making a point to say he went out for Halloween with a woman, and shared with me his thoughts as pretty women passed him on the street. He told me comments he overheard when two women saw him in a bookstore and whispered, “Whew! He’s a perfect ten!” I just smiled and said, “That’s great! You deserved that!”

    But circular dating was my salvation. I didn’t actually start doing it until this spring, even tho it was last October I told him I was going to start. By then, I was simply too brokenhearted and wasn’t functioning well.

    But it is where I am now, and it feels really good. I think it evens the playing field, so a man isn’t the only one with choices.

    I suppose circular dating could be abused, just as any valuable tool could be. For example, a knife could be used to cut food, or it could be used to kill someone. Just because it could be a weapon, does that mean knives should be banned? No, we use knives every day. Of course, that is a simple analogy, and it breaks down easily.

    When I use circular dating, I am not trying to rub it in the face of each man I date. Nor do I reject a man for the slightest infraction.

    My attitude is one of evaluating a man from a safe distance, to give me time to get to know him. Who I marry is one of the most important decisions I will ever make. I do not want to commit prematurely (ever again!). NOT being committed helps me feel all the more relaxed to not jump into a relationship that may explode later.

    An adult relationship is so complex that I can’t be sure if I want to spend the rest of my life with a man in just a week or a month. It takes time to develop, mature, and prove itself to be true. I value myself too much to just lightly throw myself at a man’s feet (ever again!). I want to really KNOW a man on a spiritual, intellectual, emotional, social, financial, and physical level before I make any serious moves in his direction. In short, my attitude is, “I want to be sure I am with the right man.”

    This was Ryan’s attitude towards me. He was only dating me, but the way it felt to me was, “Wow, this man really values himself! He really wants to be his best self, and he won’t take second best for the woman he chooses! I want to be MY best self and dazzle my man!”

    I know I would have felt bad if he had been dating several women. I would have felt insecure. But I still think it would have encouraged me to really try.

    It’s sort of like a job opening. You are competing with other applicants, and may the best applicant win! No one guarantees that you will be the only one interviewed. It just prompts you to be on your toes so you are chosen.

    How do you feel about all that?

  49.  #49Lisa (from across the pond!) on August 5, 2010 at 3:34 am

    Hi Candy.. I loved that you found the power to say that to Ryan and it seems like he stayed with you? I did the same but unfortunately, mine didnt want to stay the course and ran!

    So.. are you still seeing Ryan and CD as well? How are you handling the sexual intimacy thing? Would love to hear more.. I am just starting to try to get my 3 guys in rotation… only have one so far!

  50.  #50Jennifer on August 5, 2010 at 4:29 am

    I feel like the survey is a) a nudge from the universe telling you what you already know. and B) saying it to lightly. This man is abusive! He’s just looking for an opportunity.
    I know of what I speak my dear, I gots me one of those alchoholic abusive fathers…and I sometimes feel like B was abusive too.
    Imagine how you felt on the bad weekend you had with him. Imaging that eggshells feeling. Imagine your distress and fear.
    Really get in there.
    Now, imagine that he LIKES it when you feel that way…it makes him feel powerful when you are off balance.
    Now imagine the rest of your life like that.
    Now RUN!!!!!!!
    Trust me.

  51.  #51Jennifer on August 5, 2010 at 4:34 am

    I feel a little dissapointed.
    I got an email from POF entitled “hello beautiful lady”
    So I was feeling a little excited.
    Then I read it.
    It’s from a dude who is “taken but fishing”
    [[hangs head and sighs]]
    to be clear….
    I have friends who are swingers, and friends who are polyamourous and friends who have all sorts of organization in thier relationships….I respect that.
    I would like a more traditional organization.
    Now what do I say to him,

  52.  #52Lisa (from across the pond!) on August 5, 2010 at 5:04 am

    mmmmm!!!! had you talked to him about CD then? I have no idea what to say to that!


  53.  #53Lizzie on August 5, 2010 at 6:12 am

    on the other hand Jennifer – the best relationships I have had so far are with married men. Now what does that tell me????
    They were attentive; appreciative of who I was; I could just be myself without any concern for how I would come across; the sex was completely focused on my pleasure; they sent me little sexy notes on a pretty regular basis which gave my day a little lift.
    Ok, that is sad….men who are totally unavailable….
    not good

    Rori posted a note hypothesizing that I am holding on to a lot of anger. I have been reflecting on that. I wonder if I have been stuffing myself down for a loong looong time…..

  54.  #54Cinnamon on August 5, 2010 at 6:51 am

    I’m spamming here again rather than texting him!! I have abandonment issues so someone saying they love you but don’t want to be in a relationship with you is really hard for me.
    Ooh Brenda I don’t want to upset you but I feel sad that you text Ryan. Even little texts are giving him power. Reminding him you are thinking of him. Its soooo what im goung through – When he replies I felt happy but then I needed more contact again. It’s like alcoholics who say they can never even have a teaspoon of alcohol.

    So I was due to attend a friends party on Saturday that I knew he was attending. I had a new dress and everything. Just found out he is no longer going and I feel devastated.

    Geez – did I believe he would see me across the room and realise what he’d lost? yes that’s exactly what I thought. All the pain from realising it’s really truly over has come crashing down. *sigh*
    so I’m putting him on my horse and moving forward. And in response the sun has come out and my rainbow maker has started up spinning beautiful rainbow splodges around the room. I love my horse.

  55.  #55Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 6:54 am

    Lisa, RE: #48

    Hello from across the pond! I will assume you were referring to me, not Candy.

    Ryan all but ended the relationship in the beginning of November. It’s a pretty complex situation, but basically, he texted me rarely between November and now. He was still seeing me until about 3 weeks after I told him I am going to start dating other men.

    Besides trying to make me jealous, he “punished” me, as it were, by some really nasty passive-aggressive stuff. About a week after, he really heated things up with me, being more intimate and making out with me more than ever before. I thought he might be stepping up, but, by this time, enough negative stuff had happened (like a fake proposal that hurt me worse than I’d ever been hurt last July), that I was suspicious as to why he was suddenly warming up.

    Nevertheless, my woman’s heart cherished that time with him. Then a week later, he led me to believe we were about to have another romantic evening. Instead, just before we were heading to my house, he changed direction and said he needed to go home early to get up early.

    I called him and angrily gave feeling statements. My heart was already in shreds. This was totally passive-aggressive and emotionally cruel. It was clear from the circumstances that it was planned and intentional. He had a pattern of heart f’ing me by that stage.

    That was when he cut me off.

    So, no, he didn’t really stay in my rotation. Just in my heart. And now he is warming up again. At least verbally, he is saying he doesn’t want a romantic relationship with me anymore. I’m just being his friend right now, and that’s all I want to be until he is free from schizophrenia, which is at the core of his psychological abuse.

  56.  #56Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 6:55 am

    Ha! I just passed Bill in the aisle! Normally when passing a man in a tight spot, I turn my back and say excuse me while I slip past. With him, I said excuse me, lightly touched his arm with my hand, and slid by with my breasts facing him. Fun to flirt!

  57.  #57Lisa (from across the pond!) on August 5, 2010 at 6:57 am

    Hi Cinnamon, I too am endeavouring to stay on these blog pages rather than keep going to his myspace page or his FB photo… Now I’ve got even more sneeky..discovered that I can see his comments on our joint friends walls! UGH!

    So.. I have RR on teh dvd in the background, trying to tidy house but feel lousy and really just pining for him…

    yes, I think I too have this vision that sometime in the future, he will look at me, and realise what he has lost and come running back.. Ugh!

    I can picture your rainbow maker and it makes me smile to share in that image…

  58.  #58Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 7:01 am


    I know! Do as I say, not as I do! 🙂

    I have told him very definitively that on the one hand, I still have strong feelings for him, but on the other hand, I’m not going anywhere with those feelings until he is free from schizophrenia. Because I don’t like or trust the evil spirits in him. So that takes any power, as far as I’m concerned.

    I just miss him, and I know I’m not sposta text him, but I like to. I feel really surprised at how positively he is coming back. I am going to do my best to totally lean back now. I feel so much more at peace now that he is being friendly and kind to me.

    He’s a piece of work! And so am I! LOL! I love my neediness!

  59.  #59Lisa (from across the pond!) on August 5, 2010 at 7:04 am

    Hi Brenda.. yes sorry.. I lose the thread of these comments sometimes…

    I’ve been told by my friends that my ex was passive-aggressive, I didnt really get this until I borrowed Toxic Man from someone. Withholding intimacy, cuddling my dog in bed and avoiding touching me (hard to do in a 4ft camper!)..stepping up and then cooling off…

    All this so gets us hooked in… and we love so openly.

    How are you dealing with being his friend if you still care for him? Mine was saying when we split that he wanted to stay friends…and we have yet to meet to swap some items etc… So.. need to be clearer before that happens… and have more men in rotation!

  60.  #60Lisa (from across the pond!) on August 5, 2010 at 7:06 am

    just read your latest comment.made me smile!

    your right.. as soon as we get any sort of ‘nice’ response, we immediately feel more at peace and calm.. less panicky. I know I felt this when he emailed last week saynig he had found my ipod…and signed off with a little kiss.

    Not that I pin hopes on that.. but it softens things somehow.

  61.  #61Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 7:20 am


    You know the saying, “Fools rush in where angels fear to tread”? I felt that fear 1.5 yrs ago when we started to date, knowing he had schizophrenia, but I chose to ignore it.

    I have been so deeply hurt so many times now by him that I don’t need any other stops to keep me from being close to him again, even if he wanted to, which he states he doesn’t.

    My boundary is that I won’t date him again as a romantic interest unless or until he is free from schizophrenia. Even after that, I will be very cautious, because it is a long road to recovery.

  62.  #62dorothea on August 5, 2010 at 8:31 am


    stop texting him. he gives crumbs back anyway

    i wish i had an electrical shocker hooked up remotely to your tooshie. ZZZZAP. no texting him!

    love uuuuu

  63.  #63Lizzie on August 5, 2010 at 8:33 am

    Oh rats….I signed of for 3 months with Eharmony….geeezzeee….
    and I sent email messages to 4 guys. I skipped the whole question back and forth thing and went right for the jugular. Now it is up to them! I am stepping up the CD and going to work through my anger and my walls one baby step at a time, one baby brick at a time.

  64.  #64Lizzie on August 5, 2010 at 8:36 am

    alrightie sirens – quicky advice needed – I went and did the physical thing and forgot to tell the doc. that I am latex sensitive. Sure enough I am all swolen and sore – I need a product…my little tube of Canestin doesn’t seem to be doing the trick this time…. Ideas please… Monistat???

  65.  #65Lisa (from across the pond!) on August 5, 2010 at 8:36 am

    go Lizzie..

    I’ve gone for eharmony rather than match.. is it ok for us to approach the guys rather than wait for them to come to us? Bit too boy energy???

    Dorothea – pleeesseee.. hook me up to your electrical shocker! anything to help me sneeky looking at what hes doing!

  66.  #66Lisa (from across the pond!) on August 5, 2010 at 8:38 am


    try rose essential oil in luke warm water… or live yoghurt, cool as you can stand with rose drops in….

  67.  #67dorothea on August 5, 2010 at 8:44 am

    Lizzie, i was plagued with sensitivity down there for the longest time. you know what finally fixed me for good? fill the bath tub with warm/hot water (however you like your bath) half way. Drizzle some olive oil in the water. like 5 zig zags. then sprinkle tea trea oil along the zig zag lines generously. stir and sit for like 20 minutes. you’ll feel greasy, warning. a quick shower afterwards will make you feel better.

  68.  #68Turtle Girl on August 5, 2010 at 8:57 am

    Brenda sweetheart-
    What are you doing? Ryan is more than likely NEVER going to be healed from his mental illness. You are hiring him to beat you up. Girl I did this same thing.

    My ex is mentally ill and we broke up last November. He is also passive aggressive. Have you check out the site Baggage Reclaim? Ryan and my ex are what is called future fakers. They use the re set button. They give crumbs. They do not have integrity and what is it gonna take girl for you to have NO CONTACT?!!!!!!!

    This is gonna sound harsh-like Rori-but I have followed your posts and you are hiring him to beat you up! You deserve better. I know how seductive these type are. I thought I had died and gone to heaven with my ex. He could be the sweetest most loving man ever but it was only ten percent of the time. The rest was awful. I did not feel at peace around him. I felt anxious, tense, pining, nervous, angry and just about wrung out-crying and pissed of from being used, abused and disrespected.
    Stop it! Pleeeeezzzzzeeeeeee—-no contact at all.
    End this crazy making merry go round you are on.

    When you cd and concentrate on you your desire will fade, but it won’t as long as you are hoping for more. You can not change him. You can not be his friend right now. Maybe months from now, but he is still hurting you. I read it in your posts.

    We all love you—–go read Baggage Reclaim over and over and over every day if you need to to get yourself some self esteem.

    OK rant over. Whew. Remember– who do you love? You that’s who. Beautiful goddess you. :o) When you love you, a good man will step up and love you too.

  69.  #69Lucy on August 5, 2010 at 9:06 am

    Sirens! Rori said in a very recent posting to a new girl – do NOT email first or even wink first on the sites. let the guy initiate. rori wrote that it defeats the whole purpose of her program if you send out emails and winks first. it may have been on this thread – hard to find on phone. <3

  70.  #70dorothea on August 5, 2010 at 9:10 am

    yay it’s turtle girl!!!!!

  71.  #71Lisa (from across the pond!) on August 5, 2010 at 9:15 am

    Woooaahh!!! Turtle Girl! Love it… am listening to baggage reclaim now…


  72.  #72Lizzie on August 5, 2010 at 9:26 am

    Lucy – maybe someone else knows the link to that post on don’t contact first. I actually don’t have a problem contacting first and that is it. I send a very very short note about something I saw in their profile. From there it is all up to them. I am interested in her take on it. I feel balance is the key and I aim to do as little email as humanly possible. I must meet them. I don’t like talking on the phone either because I invent perfect relationships LOL! I have found by meeting the person, I can pick up their vibe so nicely. And the faster we meet the better. On every occasion where I had this long email thing go on, the meeting has been profoundly disappointing. On the ones where we chose to meet quickly, we had a wonderful time. Go figure. Maybe it is just a personal style thing.

  73.  #73Lizzie on August 5, 2010 at 9:33 am

    dorothea – how often would you do this? Natch – regular condoms are a problem as well, but this go seems worse than normal – must have been more latex powder on the gloves than normal or maybe the hot sweatty weather made the situation worse.

    Lisa – thanks! rose essential oil might be good as well – I think my beautician uses it to sooth away the sting after my waxing. Maybe I need a stash…. sitting in a bowl of cold yogurt sounds rather inviting…

  74.  #74Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 9:36 am

    My personal style is to lean forward…just a lil bit! I love my Dollbaby, Ryan! He knows where we stand. I’m not trying to win him back. I am just loving him with God’s Love from a distance. I still want to spank his hiney! I got it under control. I knew you guys would spank me…but I decided to share with you anyway. I feel content to not text him anymore.

    I am going to write a letter to a man, who I’ll call Mel, who was briefly attracted to me in the late 80s/early 90s…when I was slender. He was a coworker and we got along great until he divorced and started showing interest. Then I freaked out and made a complete and utter fool of myself. I had zero social skills. So I’m going to write him and just give him my reflections 15 yrs in the future. Just for the experience of writing feeling messages and giving myself long-deserved peace for how I treated him so insensitively back then. I had no idea how to express my attraction.

    I like to lean forward and email men on dating websites, too. I just give a one line Hi I like your profile and pics type of thing. One man there said in his profile, “I will not respond to winks. That’s ridiculous. We are all adults here. What does it matter who contacts who??” I may get shock zapped in my hiney again, but I tend to agree with him! 😛

  75.  #75Lizzie on August 5, 2010 at 9:41 am

    too cute – one of the new guys on EH has accepted we can email – it is all up to him now! we shall see!!

  76.  #76Lisa (from across the pond!) on August 5, 2010 at 9:58 am

    Brenda! I think Turtle Girl needs to attach several electric shockers to you! NO!!! Why contact someone from so long ago? move forward… (hark at me! lol)

    Just read some of the blog of baggage reclaim.. much of it I knew already BUT I didnt want to accept or hear! what are we like!

    With the contacting first on internet dating.. maybe I’ll try both tactics… see what works!

  77.  #77Daria on August 5, 2010 at 11:07 am

    I guess logically it matters who contacts whom because often we are used to pursuing and chasing men who aren’t into us (or else they’d be chasing us already – tho we may be chasing them away). So we are attracted to men because of stuff in our past and often toxic stuff. So if we are the ones contacting first we are reaching out…

    on the other hand if we lean back and respond then we are surely selecting from a pool of men that want US!! They are the ones who will have zeroed in on us as the target , so we are in great targeting mr. right position.

    So we are behaviour training ourselves to instead of reaching out for men who are uninterested, to respond to men who are interested.

    Then we just keep practicing with them and magically or not the pool gets refreshed with better quality men that start being the kind we like too.

    I practice this in the club too, instead of scanning the crowd for attractive men – an activity which I’ve noticed makes me feel shut down because I then feel unworthy of them approaching me – I instead practice interacting with the men who Do approach me, and speaking my truth.

  78.  #78Esther on August 5, 2010 at 11:19 am

    Hi rori. I got a problem.Ive been with this guy for approximately 6months.He is a workaholic. he says he loves me but i dont feel it. We rarely meet. We meet only twice a month and at his place. We’ve never gone out (probably my mistake). i want to communicate all those things..the fact that we never go out because he is ays busy. The fact that we rarely meet. I am dating other guys but i want to communicate my discomfort. I have failed to find the words to use…please be my mouth. I know what i feel but i cant put it in words. Thanks!

  79.  #79Renee on August 5, 2010 at 11:28 am


    Thanks so much for asking about the car drama…we ended up settling in mediation because they offered me money and I figured if I went to court, there was a chance I could lose, so I took the bird in the hand instead of seeking 2 in the bush.

    I am feeling a little rejected right now and I don’t know what (if anything) I should do about it…the 3.5 hour guy from Tuesday night contacted me today to ask how the mediation went yesterday and I told him (in kind of a lengthy text). When I saw him the other night, I had mentioned the possibility of his going with me to see a popular musical on Sunday in a city that’s about 1/3 of the way closer to him. He told me his buddy had previously asked him to go on a golfiing wknd out of state and that he’d find out for sure Thursday whether they were going or not.

    Well, LD’s next text (after my lengthy explanation of how the mediation went and a rundown of my dad going to the ER last night) to which he replied that it sounded like things had ended up going well and he was sorry about my dad.

    Then he sent a 2nd text saying, “I’m not going to be able to join you on Sunday, but thanks so much 4 inviting me!”

    He mentioned nothing about the golf trip, so now I don’t know whether he’s backing out because of the trip or because he’s changed his mind about seeing me again. I think it was just the brevity of the msg with no explanation that has me wondering… I’m feeling insecure at the moment…I’m soooo glad I didn’t sleep with him yet or anything, but I just would like to know whether he still would like to continue dating me (which was the implication when I saw him Wed morning) or whether he’s backing off…I don’t feel like I can say anything to him without sounding needy, but I’d really like to know, you know? What do you think?

  80.  #80Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 11:33 am


    Here are some ideas for feeling messages:

    It would feel good to have a bit more contact than we’ve been having. I am unsure how to tell you this without feeling taken for granted. What do you think?

    I love the time we spend together, and I have this idealism of being wined and dined by a special man in my life. What do you think?

    I really feel good when we are together. I often miss you when we are apart. What can we do?

    Esther, do any of these feel good to you? I am just practicing.

  81.  #81Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 11:38 am


    The Queen of Overfunctioning is going to advise you to lean back. Do as I say, not as I do!

    Have you responded yet? Here is an idea of what I might say, “I feel yucky and disappointed.”

    Not sure if I am correct on that, but it seems like much more than that would come across as needy and taking the oars of the relationship boat.

    In one of her CDs, Rori said, “I feel kinda insecure right now, and it would make all my insecurities go away if I understood why you are backing out. What do you think?”

    I’m not really sure here.

    Did the newspaper article come out? How did they paint you?

  82.  #82Renee on August 5, 2010 at 11:55 am

    Well, I guess I should have just been a little patient…he just txted back that his plans for Sunday have not changed and he may be able to make it to the show…guess that answered my question, huh (feeling sheepish).

    Brenda — the paper apparently decided to drop the story, and it’s really just as well…I mean, I wanted to embarrass her to get back at her any everything (and hurt her chances of getting elected), but the lies she was telling about me would have undoubtedly damaged my reputations somewhat as well and I’m a realtor, so public perception is very important.

    I read in your previous post about things going well with Bill — now you listen to your own advice, there, girl — I know (obviously) how easily it is to fall back into the old pattern of leaning forward, but you definitely want to start any possible relationship between the two of you on firm ground, so no asking him out, ok?:-)

  83.  #83Renee on August 5, 2010 at 11:56 am

    That should have been his plans for Sunday have “now changed”, instead of “not changed”…I’m a typo queen lately.

  84.  #84Renee on August 5, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Ok — so now we’re going to see the play together on Sunday…I’m looking forward to it:-)

  85.  #85Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 12:04 pm


    Great! I’m happy you are going out with him afterall!

    I am doing quite well at not leaning forward with Bill. I really like his relational style, allowing it to develop organically. He seems to fit things in that are feeling me out on topics like sleeping style, raising children, and yet our topics appear to be benign, like sleep apnea and Amish people. He is very intelligent, and I find that very attractive. I enjoy getting lost in his eyes.

  86.  #86Renee on August 5, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    Good for you, Brenda! It does sound like he’s kind of feeling you out…I hope you can line up some other men you find interesting though…I’m the queen of letting one man become too important to me and blowing off everyone else just to have it blow up in my face. Rori’s right — it does seem to build self-esteem when you’ve got men everywhere (my moment of insecurity above not withstanding:-).

    Esther — I would definitely feel taken for granted in your situation. Do you know if he’s seeing other women?

  87.  #87Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 12:30 pm


    Thanks! I am! I have Bill, Ryan :-), Kenny, Balto, and I’ve went on a date about a week ago that I am letting go…62.

  88.  #88Tina on August 5, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Im getting ready to go grocery shopping and Im going to look and feel fabulous, Imnot sure which tool to take with me.

  89.  #89Renee on August 5, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    Oh yes, I forgot about Balto…you’re letting him go?

  90.  #90Renee on August 5, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Oh, I misunderstood — you’re letting the 62-year-old go, not Balto…good deal:-)

  91.  #91Lizzie on August 5, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    OK cute guy on EH sent me a cute response to my note – gee he is a tad old as well; but we shall see; I think he is like 62…what is it with the guys? I changed my settings, I want a younger crowd like 50! LOL!!! I sent back a little wee flirt – I think he is going to pick up the ball – what do you want to guess that I will see him next week???
    too funny for words….

  92.  #92Tina on August 5, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Anyway, im wearing a brown tanktop with spagetti strings, a tan above the knee skirt and my “glow” for my date with eggshell man. im reading the eggshell blog and trying to memorize it 🙂

  93.  #93Tina on August 5, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    I have my invisible sheild thats what I”ll talk, Warrior Goddess Woman will take her invisable shield. I feel afraid, I feel afraid of your anger, Im just not sure if i want to ‘get close” meaning physically at this point.

  94.  #94Tina on August 5, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    I wont tell him the part of not wanting to get physically close, ill just keep that to myself. Im sure he’ll sense my vibe . he’ll be here in an hour.

  95.  #95Renee on August 5, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    Lizzie — good for you! I knew you were just going through a slow spell:-)

    Oooh…I feel “ugh”…I don’t think my vitamins are settling well in my stomach and I’ve got to show houses in a few mins…

    I was planning to call long distance guy back, but I didn’t want to call him while I was feeling “ugh”…

  96.  #96Tina on August 5, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    Ok, now I feel pissed again, he is online well his status says “away” and he is supposed to be here at 6pm to get me, he lives an hour away hm, I wonder if he’ll call? at least to let me know he will be late. im going out tonight anyway, I have a plan B.

  97.  #97Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    Ha! I just spent over 1.5 hrs at Bill’s desk! First we talked about work-related stuff, and then we talked mostly about health and nutrition. We are both trying to lose weight. He is a pleasure to be around! I feel so happy! He just relaxed and we went on a website with a glycemic index.

    I told him to look up Capt’n Crunch and Apple Jacks, my two favorite junk food cereals. He couldn’t find them, so I laughed and said forget it! He said, “You’re laughing, but actually, those are the two cereals I go for when I’m craving junk food!” I said, “Yeah, me too!”

    He is so much fun to talk with, and it’s cool cuz he tells me about digestion and what happens to food at the cell level, because he’s a biologist!

    I felt more comfortable with him than ever! It felt like a date, even tho we were just sitting at his desk! We seem to have a lot of the same outlooks on many topics! Yay! I feel happy!

  98.  #98Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    I just used feeling messages in an email to a recruiter for a marketing communications position at a pharmaceutical company! Ha! I love feeling messages!

    “I feel disappointed and frustrated. I can write marketing communications! I wrote an 80-page manual on how to compile clinical study reports. I have no medical or scientific background. I simply rose to the occasion and used my editor-level English skills to write clearly. It would feel so good if you would at least view the attached sample of my work. I can write powerfully WHATEVER needs to be written. I feel like I would if I were in 11th grade and told that I may not go to 12th grade, because I’ve never been in 12th grade before.

    “I consider myself to be a Leonardo da Vinci type of person. That is, I can excel at whatever I put my hand to. I believe that is evidenced in me having a pharmaceutical career with a theology education! I really want this position! What can we do to show them I am more than capable for this job?”

  99.  #99Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    I feel happy and proud of myself to not give up like I would have in the past. I vote for ME! Yum!

  100.  #100Brenda on August 5, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    Another thing I noticed….Bill got some new clothes and is dressing nicer these days! He was wearing a very flattering black plaid button down shirt today, instead of his usual polo shirts. Hehehe! I’m in like!

  101.  #101Jennifer on August 5, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    I’m kinda a stalker now…and I’m ok with that.
    I looked at that woman’s pic again…she has a new one up.
    She is a full figured woman with red hair.
    She doesn’t do it as well as me though….she’s The JEN replacement!!!
    How evil am I if I say
    Foolish mortal!
    You CANNOT replace me! I am a GODDESS!!!!!
    I see your feeble struggles…and I laugh at them!

  102.  #102Lucy on August 5, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    Here is the comment Rori wrote about not initiating on the sites:

    There is a new comment on the post “New Questions And Stories From You”.

    Author: Rori Raye
    Isa – please start by working on your profile and pictures and signing up on many, many sites – the free ones, and, too…and not even bothering to look at any men on the sites except the ones who email or wink at you. If you’re not getting emails from decent guys – it could be your photo or profile…so keep tweaking them…If you send out emails – you’re defeating the whole purpose and method of Targeting Mr. Right. YOU are the target!!! Love, Rori

  103.  #103dorothea on August 5, 2010 at 6:30 pm

    brenda, sitting at the desk with a man for 1.5 hours IS a cd. good job! it’s a cd because it is one on one time with a man to practice leaning back and all of rori’s other tools, like being in your body and feeling your feelings

  104.  #104Rori Raye on August 5, 2010 at 8:53 pm

    Hi, Patricia – do you have a specific question? Rori

  105.  #105lm on August 5, 2010 at 9:27 pm

    it’s been two weeks since i cut my ex out of my life completely.

    right i feel amazing. i feel relaxed, pretty, sunny, sparkling.

    i feel scared because he’s coming back to town in a week. i feel afraid of his anger. i feel gross around him. i feel triggered every time someone at work mentions him. i feel angry. i wish he would stay gone!

    after work i gave myself a facial, read a book in the bathtub, did some inner bonding. i sad watched music videos and i made myself cry on purpose. now i feel tired but warm and mellow.

  106.  #106SweetSammy on August 5, 2010 at 11:00 pm

    Hi Ladies,

    I have really enjoyed reading all of your comments. I feel really inspired by the support you all seem to have for one another. That is so important.

    I just got out of a six year relationship with my first serious partner. We finally moved in together a year, and began the life we had talked about having for years. We even bought a little puppy earlier this year. Suddenly, two months ago, he began pulling away, and claimed he has not been happy.

    This was a month long circus of his hot and cold episodes. One minute, he wanted me, and the next, he wanted to move out. I came to learn that he had begun pursuing a woman he works with. I always knew he found her attractive, but of course he reassured me he wasn’t “that” interested in her. I was always skeptical of her though. She was also in a relationship with a man for eight years and was engaged. She claimed to be unhappy to, and together, she and my man longed to be “saved” from said “bad” relationships.

    The news of this was disturbing to say the least. I’ve never felt anything like it. My entire world felt like it was going to fall apart. I had planned to spend my life with this man… he was all I knew. He was my closest friend, my family, companion, etc. I never believed he would ever leave me.

    I clung on to him harder and harder after I found everything out, even though I knew I needed to let him go. Letting him go just seemed like an impossible task. Something far too surreal.

    He finally moved out one month ago, one month (to the day) after I learned of his infidelity. He is now in an exclusive relationship with this other woman. He claims he never knew what he was missing until her. How awful it was to hear that from the man I loved so deeply.

    At first, he promised me friendship. I clung to it, as it felt better than nothing at all. I could not imagine a life without him. Not only did he promise me friendship, he explained that he would always be close with me… that he could never have it another way. I believed him.

    After he moved out, we saw each other a few times, but it always ended in tears. I knew the only way I could properly let him go would be to never see him again, but I did not have the strength for that.
    Every time I saw him, he grew farther away. And of course, watching him grow farther away would break my heart all over again. Why did I have so many high expectations for a man who left me for another woman? I don’t know.

    The last I saw him (1.5 week ago), he walked into my (his old) apartment, and exclaimed that we could no longer be close friends… he had no problem talking to me still on a semi regular basis, but we could not see each other as often anymore. I was devastated all over again. I was mad at him for taking yet another thing away from me. I was mad at him for calling the shots– again. I was mad at him for playing with my mind.

    Our evening that night ended in an argument, and I promised myself that I would not talk to him for a few days. (Hey- baby steps!) He messaged me several times during that week asking how I was doing, but I ignored him. He told me he was sad and that he missed our friendship. I felt strong.

    Then, the other day, I talked to him briefly over an IM. We had a civil conversation, but now, I’m left feeling sad all over again.

    I’ve gone on a few dates since our breakup, but all I do is compare the men to him. I fear I will never find someone that I will love as much as I loved him. I feel that I am putting up an enormous wall and will appear unavailable.

    I wonder how it was so easy for him to fall in love again, when I can’t even hold a conversation with another man without feeling lonely for my ex.

    I am also feeling fear about this happening again to me. My ex was the type of man no one ever imagined would ever do such a thing. He was the “safe, good guy.” So if the “safe, good guy” can do something so awful and disturbing, ANYONE can! Yikes. How am I ever going to feel confident and secure in another relationship? I fear that I will always fear being left again.

  107.  #107Rori Raye on August 6, 2010 at 12:36 am

    SweetSammy, Welcome, and I want to put my arms around you. No one of us can “get over” a six-year relationship overnight. Can’t do it, don’t try. I imagine Jennifer Aniston felt and maybe still feels exactly as you do…if it helps to imagine another woman in the same place. Lisa Steadman does whole phone groups with women recovering from this kind of thing and moving forward powerfully…look her up. Circular Dating is a therapeutic technique – it’s just about allowing every man who shows up to help you heal – however he can. Some will make you laugh, some will take you somewhere or show you something that enriches your experience of life, some will touch you and make you feel good. After awhile, you will feel better, and a man will start to appeal to you and feel good – and the Circular Dating process will have made you stronger, smarter, and more centered and loving of yourself. Love, Rori

  108.  #108Cinnamon on August 6, 2010 at 3:21 am

    SweetSammy – *big hugs* to you. My ‘big break up’ was exactly two years ago. I have recently had another break up but waaay less painful than the ‘big one’. In my big one I was living with him and had moved to the other side of the country to be with him. My only local friends were his friends. When he asked me to leave the house we shared I left behind all the friends (‘his friends’ so I was told to stay away), my two cats (I couldn’t find a rental that would accept them). When I left I was 38 so my dreams of family and kids etc lay in tatters. He also did the ‘lets be friends’ thing which was more to ease his conscience than to help me. If anything it made things worst as it kept the flame of hope alive for another six months.

    These are just a few things that helped me:
    1. Read everything you can about breaking up and healing yourself. Rori’s tools are great, Bagger Reclaim is good as is Evan Marc Katz. I found Lisa Steadmans book ‘Its a break up not a break down’ really really useful.
    2.I tried EFT and had as much psychotherapy as I could afford with a cognitive behavioural therapist. Helped me work through the ‘feeling worthless’ issues. I’m just restarting this as I have huuuge abandonment issues which make me pick emotionally unavailable men.
    3. Get out of the house. Easier said than done when all you want to do is lay in bed and cry but I joined a local social group, a hiking group and a salsa class. I joined match etc but I wasn’t ready for dating. Looking back I have no idea where I found the strength. I didn’t have any friends around me so I had no one to go out with. Sometimes I would cry before going out and cry when I got back but little by little I created a group of my own friends who have been really close ever since. It wasn’t easy but so worth it.
    4. Find what Lisa Steadman calls a ‘woohoo’ crew. Mine were miles away so I could only phone them but they were happy to take calls at 2am and tell me I would be ok.
    5. Post on here. I wish I had found this site back then as there is a lot of support here.

    Sometimes the person who hurt is isn’t a ‘bad guy’ he is just ‘bad for us’. You will find someone who will love you again but for now be gentle with yourself.
    more *big hugs*

  109.  #109Daria on August 6, 2010 at 4:06 am

    Sweetsammy it wasn’t meant to be, baby. I feel tears for you. You bust be chosen for something special if you’re living such powerful experiences. You will grow from this an strong woman.


  110.  #110Ammo on August 6, 2010 at 4:07 am

    The friendship thing is just crap it just dosen’t work! It just keeps the hope going that things will eventually change and they don’t! We are worth so much more than waitng for things to change with a man. I Have ended a friendship today which is making me feel so sad, worthless and heart broken. I met a man on RSVP I am in Australia and thats the main internet dating site we have. He acted so into me ringing me and email etc even rang me 4 times in one day but all along he said we were just friends said let start as friends and see what happens so I went along with it the alarm bells should have gone off when he said if we sleep together will you be able to still be my friend. Things got very flirty and yep we did start a phsyical relationship but that I ended when I realised we were only ever going to remain at the friendship level and when I ended that part he still wanted my friendship but today I have desided after a call from him I just can’t do it after he told me he met with someone else who he really likes and would like to start something with this just hurts way too much. All I want to do is cry myself to sleep now!

  111.  #111Daria on August 6, 2010 at 4:16 am

    Ammo Ionia it doesn’t work. I gotta assume all men are interested in more w me now. Because at first they are. Friends seems ok before sex but I don’t want to block the possibility of more. Amd I feel unworthy and weird. I don’t like that it doesn’t feel like friends it’s lovers and users and some fun. It feels sleezy. I feel so mad that I am in a position to feel this way I feel furious… I want to yell at you and nle you I can’t take feeling this way. I feel mad.

    I don’t want to feel like I’m spending my time with a man that likes me less than I do him. I feel weird and furious and insecure and I don’t like it.

    What do you think we can do to make this better?

  112.  #112Jennifer on August 6, 2010 at 4:16 am

    *sigh* where is all this misogyny coming from?
    My ex SIL on FB had a dude leave a nasty reply to her status…she’s got an intellecutal disability…we can’t have that. So I gave him a bit of a set to.
    So he replies that I’m not making any sense but that’s ok cause women are retarded half thier lives anyway.
    Like, really Timmy?
    If you’re gonna call me a tard…make sure you’re spelling every thing right. For real.

  113.  #113Renee on August 6, 2010 at 5:11 am

    I feel triggered — I just read some of the posts on Baggage Claim and it reminded me of every guy who’s ever rejected me, especially the guy who rejected me this spring…I have to admit to being partially at fault for “going a little ballistic” when things hit the fan, but still, if he were the right guy for me, he would have still been there despite my behavior.

    Up until things went south, he was always telling me how beautiful, sexy and fun I was and he actually came across as being a little insecure about whether someone as wonderful as I am would really be interested in him. When I showed a moment of insecurity, however, he bolted and fast — said he’d call to discuss things and then just never called me again — to quote the Baggage Claim blog, what an “assclown”!

    But I guess I’m still carrying around some of the ghosts of that breakup, because I felt the rejection all over again when I was reading the post that said just because he broke up with you, it doesn’t make him an assclown. Well, that may be true, but promising to call and then just never calling me again was a serious assclown move and I felt rejected and unworthy…

    I’ve also noticed that today, I’m looking at some of my bad habits (like not taking out the garbage as often as I should) and feeling that this makes me an unworthy person…I feel rejected by my former best friend that she would screw me over so badly and it makes me feel like I’m secretly so flawed that I may not be worth having valuable people in my life. My logical mind knows that any “friend” who would screw you over financially in a big way is not a valuable person to have in your life, but she’s so popular (faking all these people out by leading them to believe she’s something she’s not) that I still feel like I’m the one who somehow failed by not being able to keep her friendship…

    I’m sure I’ll feel better as the day goes on, but that post really triggered me this morning…

  114.  #114lm on August 6, 2010 at 8:32 am



  115.  #115Brenda on August 6, 2010 at 10:10 am

    Dorothea, RE: #103

    CDing in the office! Whew-hew! I’m still riding high from that! I stopped by his desk to legitimately drop off a document this morning, fully intending to just say hi and walk on. He grabbed me for conversation and we talked another 15 minutes! Love it! He’s such a sweetheart!

    Thanks for the encouragement! I agree, that was a CD! And I had such a feeling of warmth about it that I wouldn’t be surprised if he’d finally ask me out, away from work, within the next week! I feel excited and happy!


    Thanks for posting Rori’s comment on not initiating on dating sites. I’ll adhere to that.

    My follow-up question is this…when it comes to tweaking my profile, do I ask for my ideal man, the man of my dreams who few men would ever match up to? Or do I just leave it welcoming and general? What do you all think?

  116.  #116Brenda on August 6, 2010 at 10:23 am


    Go look in your eyes in the mirror and say softly,

    “Renee, you are loveable and capable. I love you and accept you exactly the way you are! You are a beautiful woman with a heart of love!”

    Don’t let the assclowns of this world define who you are. Anyone who treats you bad is the one with the problem, not you.


  117.  #117Renee on August 6, 2010 at 11:00 am

    Brenda — You’re a sweetheart. Thanks for replying.

    I think my problem today is that I have a sinus headache I haven’t been able to shake since yesterday and it’s affecting my mood….don’t know whether I want to go out with Robert tonight or not…I don’t want to meet someone for the first time when I’m less than my best, but it’s conceivable that this guy could be fun and lift me out of my funk…what do you think?

  118.  #118Renee on August 6, 2010 at 11:01 am

    Brenda — awesome news with Bill! It sounds like you’re really getting to know him in a healthy way. Please keep us posted!

  119.  #119Brenda on August 6, 2010 at 11:09 am

    Exxxxcellent Quote!!

    “Do not ask what the world needs.
    Ask what makes you come Alive, and do that.
    Because what the world needs is more peope who have come Alive!”

    – Dr. Howard Thurman, mentor and spiritual advisor to Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

  120.  #120Brenda on August 6, 2010 at 11:12 am


    You’re welcome and thank you! So go take 4 pain relievers and have the best of both worlds!

    Enjoy that date cuz your pain will be gone! 🙂

  121.  #121Renee on August 6, 2010 at 11:34 am

    Brenda — I’ve taken several pain relievers and it’s still not kicking it…I feel a little better, but it’s still lingering.

    Besides, I’m a little annoyed with Robert right now because I haven’t heard from him in two days and the last thing we discussed was the fact that my dad had been admitted to the ER…he didn’t even text me the next day to ask how my dad was, so that’s not making me feel like he’s really interested in my world, you know?

  122.  #122Bella on August 6, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    I love the quote “When someone shows you who they really are, believe them!” Not sure who said it, but I certainly wish I had taken the advice. I realized the man I loved was an assclown when he made plans with me for a weekend, and then I found out he had made plans with another co-worker (in a different department) the same weekend. Everyone at work knew that we were seeing each other, so of course when I found out and confronted him it wasn’t pretty. This was pre-Rori and I had a melt down, went psycho ballistic and told him to stay away from me, I was so mad I could have killed him. This was my moment, this was when he showed me his true self. Oh, the pain I could have avoided if only I would have stayed away from him.
    He lied his way out of that, and I believed him, kept making excuses for him. Unfortunately I allowed another year and a half to pass before I was finally able to walk away.
    He has said and done so many awful things to me, hurtful, degrading, and humiliating things. I seriously have to sit here and shake my head, and I am writing this just to get it off my chest, and to encourage others who have had the unfortunate dealings with an assclown that you are not alone.
    I could sit here for hours and give examples of awful things that he said to me, but I truly am trying to “turn my back on it” as Rori talks about in her heart connection tools.
    It’s amazing how these tools help you to start moving forward. Oh I have my moments when I just keep beating myself up over and over and over again for putting up with such awful treatment!! I think that is harder for me than the fact that he turned out to be such a jerk. I can’t get over how I could have sunk so low, and I feel so mad at myself for letting him take advantage of my goodness for so long. I couldn’t find my voice then to express my feelings, I couldn’t even feel at all I was so broken down.
    It has been a very slow and painful journey, but I know it has made me re-evaluate so many things in my life.
    Cinnamon I know how you feel not having any friends around you. I am slowly starting to get out and do things, and I pray I will be able to find a healthy supportive new circle of friends.
    Rori and this forum have been a life saver for me. Thank you.

  123.  #123Renee on August 6, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    Bella — I know how you feel about not having a close circle of friends…I just lost my best friend via a horrible falling out where she screwed me over and I had to take her to court. My other oldest friend lives 3.5 hours away and has 6 kids, so she’s not very available and then I have a guy pal, but he gets tired of my chatting about men…

    I’m going to start volunteering with Habitat for Humanity (I’m applying to be an ambassador, which will give me the chance to meet a lot of people), but I don’t really have many friends…lots of acquaintances, but few friends and right now none who live near me. Sigh.

    I used to have a big circle of friends years ago, but everyone kind of dropped off and got married and I remain the lone singleton these days…you’re right — this forum has been wonderful in terms of allowing me to vent and getting great gal-pal input.

  124.  #124Bella on August 6, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Thanks Renee. . .it’s too bad we all don’t live close together, I feel such a connection to so many of you. At least we can come here for support or to cry or to share joy. Just being able to talk and express my feelings to others who care and understand makes such a difference.
    Good for you for volunteering, I am looking into that possibility as well. Talk about making yourself feel good! By the way, I hope your headache is better, and I hope all is well with your Dad.

  125.  #125dorothea on August 6, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    Bella, maya angelou said that.

  126.  #126Bella on August 6, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    Thank you dorothea! I should have known it came from a beautiful wise woman!

  127.  #127Bella on August 6, 2010 at 5:12 pm

    Well, this is very interesting, and I’m feeling a little disrespectful for not Googling this and giving Maya Angelou proper credit in my earlier post.
    I did indeed Google it after dorothea’s response and low and behold look at this article on the quote written by Jennifer Chandler.

    “When someone shows you who they are, believe them” a quote by Maya Angelou.

    It is not just seeds of wisdom that burst forth from this statement but a fully bloomed flower to behold. Quotes are so interesting to explore, I love them. They can sometimes be interpreted many ways but this, to me, seems to have a powerful and clear message.

    If my memory serves me correct she linked this quote to a relationship she had with a man, a negative experience turned into a powerful piece of learning. You can see how this could be translated, as in relationships people really do show us early on who they are, but do we believe it?

    With positive circumstances and respectful behaviours we accept the person at face value, feeling content that what we are seeing is a true representation of their personality. Nothing to worry about, right? You have established this person is deserving of trust, honor is apparent in that each has listened to the needs of the other, some things are just non negotiable and therefore accepted as a necessary demonstration of respect. All of this is reinforced in the way they conduct themselves and based on mutually agreed upon values.

    In the presence of negative relationship circumstances and dis-respectful behaviours we can come to learn something all together different. This person may not be deserving of the trust given, had not listened to the needs of the other, does not respect their partners values. For many people instead of believing that this is a sign of things to come they cling to a hope for change. Somehow by some persuasion, epiphany, pleading, wishful thinking, counsel or hard work this person will learn to respect them and do the “right” thing.

    It has been my experience that Maya’s reflection holds true. Within the context of my personal relationships I have seen many examples of this.. positive and negative. It is the negative however that stands out; it is in those experiences or partnerships that someone has stepped too close to the heart. We must believe what is their truth. We are highly sensitive creatures so through words or actions, based on intuition or facts we are capable of seeing someone for who they are. The next step is to have the guts to decide is this something I can live with and at what cost.

  128.  #128lm on August 6, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    brenda, keep it up! sounds like you’re having fun.

  129.  #129Amy F on August 6, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    OK Ladies,
    I feel weak. I am trying to just make my weak feeling fall into my pelvis, but oh it is hard, even after all this time.
    I had an amazing few days with my main man – lots of great sex, great food, great conversation, many loving moments. You know how we feel after sharing ourselves in this way – exposed and very vulnerable. I got one little text yesterday – a WOW! and one little text this morning and nothing else. I feel weak and needy. I need to feel more connected after being so exposed and he has disappeared for the moment. He’s being a man – he is satisfied, he devoted 2 whole days to me in the middle of the week and now he’s taking care of business and I want to text him just because I need the connection.

    I know not to lean forward, I feel like a big dummy that I am even thinking of doing so.

    I know I need to CD now more than ever – I’m trying. I kind of ignored other men who wanted to date me because I have been so intoxicated. DUMB!
    I have never contacted him first, have never rowed the boat. However after unzipping my heart all the way and spending all night together for the first time, I feel insecure and needy.
    Help! Help!

  130.  #130Melissa on August 6, 2010 at 8:43 pm

    Amy, I’m in a different situation, but I am feeling that way too! Let me just say that when I “leaned forward” the other day, I knew I shouldn’t, but I felt SO helpless… you know how it went? HORRIBLE! I was NOT in control of my emotions & I know he felt that. Just read more blog posts & HANG IN THERE!

  131.  #131Amy F on August 6, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    Hi Melissa,

    Thank you. I know leaning forward feels worse than the out of control feeling I have now. I got a text about an hour ago but I know he’s just putting me on life support. The answer is CDing. He knows he has my heart and nobody else comes close, so he’s doing what he can get away with. I need to let him know the relationship is just imaginary and up for grabs until a man steps up to make a commitment. My bad and I know better!
    Thanks for the support! It is much appreciated!

  132.  #132lm on August 6, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    more forgetting…

    a girlfriend asked me about my ex today while we were grabbing drinks after work. i started talking a bit, felt gross, felt like i was going backwards and said ‘i don’t want to talk about him anymore. it feels bad.’ she said she’d never bring it up again. she’s so lovely.

    i cleaned my bedroom, discovered a whole bunch of beautiful cosmetics i bought months ago and sort of stashed away, put together my yoga clothes for tomorrow’s class, did some inner bonding work (which really reduces neediness and desperation for me), swept my floor, stacked my books, burned some incense, walked around in a cute pair of underwear.

    i started listing the things i need to do to take care of myself on a white board at home. i love using the different coloured markers. it feels fun.

    it feels weird to have more fun at home alone on a friday instead of being out with my ex. good-weird. i love being by myself now.

    i’m going to make a breakfast shake tomorrow and do some campaigning for a local political candidate, then go to yoga.

    i love hanging out with myself! i am not afraid to be alone. i don’t like my old impulse to control a man. i love to focus on me. i am still scared of a new man right now. i am getting to know me again. i am moving on to me. i barely thought about my ex all night. i feel free.

    i have a feeling good things are coming towards me…

  133.  #133joan on August 6, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    Regarding the Maya Angelou quote, I remember when Oprah brought it up for discussion during one of Maya’s appearances. That day, though, Maya stated it with an additional caveat:

    When people show you who they are, believe them . . . THE FIRST TIME!

    Luckily, I was near the computer while watching, so I was able to quickly add the quote to my list. It’s disregarding that part about “the first time” that usually ends up biting me in the a$$.

  134.  #134Cinnamon on August 7, 2010 at 2:36 am

    Hmmm I feel a little triggered by the Maya Angelou quote. Trying to process why. Maybe I feel scared that I will be judged by the same?
    Hmmm I feel more comfortable if I emphasise the YOU ie don’t judge someone by what they have done to others. Also, people have many facets to their personality and no one is perfect so maybe we don’t focus on either the bad or good but look at them all and ask ourselves ‘can I accept this person with these faults as well as the good stuff’ rather than hoping the faults will change. Believe it all. Yes that feels better to me.
    Im – where did you get your inner bonding stuff from? I have been looking round but a recommendation would be good. x

  135.  #135Daria on August 7, 2010 at 3:18 am

    i feel so triggered . giving man and i sort of came up on some money together and i kept it all. i kept wanting to offer him 25 % of it. i feel triggered that i didnt. i feel scared he’s “wathchin me” and seeing that im greedy and selfish. i feel afraid that he will turn on me later on because of it.

    in the past in this situation i would have split it,

    i had an icky feeling situation with an ex where HE kept all the money and gave me just a piece when it wound up all getting deducted from my account

    this money is because someone hit my car – when he was driving it, and they had no insurance so they gave us cash, but the guys were mostly – tho i had a say in it – negotiating

    i feel SOOO triggerd cuz of contrast with the ex and because i feel unworthy and also like i feel afraid im being unfair

    other people were assuming that hes the one having the money, i got a whole bunch of money

    seems “with his help” cuz he talked to the person and stuff…

    but i want to keep it

    me em me mem em me me

    me greedy keep all

    havent had money come in a long time

    i feel so tightened up and afraid to do this

    i mostly did it to stretch my “deservingness” muscle and it feels UNCOMFORTABLE as eefff right now

    i feel tight and afraid

    i dont want to send these vibes

    i want to feel LOVED by the universe and by CD

    i don’t want to feel guilty

    i love myself feeling guilty

    i love my guilt

    i love my fear

    i love my mistrust

    i love my determination

    i love me

  136.  #136Bella on August 7, 2010 at 4:39 am

    Hi Cinnamon,

    Thanks for your feedback. I feel interested at your trigger. I don’t feel the Maya Angelou quote is about judging someone at all. To me it’s simply believing them when they show and speak their truth to you in a way that is indisputable. This isn’t something taken lightly, or based on a casual encounter. You are so right that we all have many facets to our personalities and anyone can be having a bad day. But he spoke and showed me his true character in so many ways, and yes red flags came up, but I chose to ignore them and not believe that he was “really” like that, and this is where I let myself down.

    In my case, and until I found Rori, I was just like the article stated, when a man made me feel less of a person I was feeling so insecure and desperate I thought that “Somehow by some persuasion, epiphany, pleading, wishful thinking, counsel or hard work this person will learn to respect them and do the “right” thing.” (ALL things Rori tells us NOT to do)

    What I needed to do was follow my feelings, not tolerate bad behavior, and see if he could and was willing to step up to the plate.
    Until now, I never knew or believed enough in my self to do that, I would just let anyone, especially men, walk all over me all the while coddling them and making excuses for them.

    Now, if/when someone behaves badly towards me, I am learning to speak “my truth” in feeling messages, and if they can’t/won’t treat me the way I feel I need to be treated, then I have the power to stay or walk away.

    That’s why this quote spoke to me in such an emotional way. I just wanted to share my feelings on that with you.

    Hi Joan: Love the quote you heard “When people show you who they are, believe them . . . THE FIRST TIME!”

  137.  #137Renee on August 7, 2010 at 5:01 am

    Bella — I’ve been in the same boat with people treating me badly…there was this one guy in Nashville in particular whom I was convinced could/would eventually treat me right if I could just find the magic words or approach that would trigger his good treatment (the treatment he displayed at the very beginning, before he was showing me his true self).

    I guess I just didn’t have enough self-esteem to tell him where to go when he jerked me around repeatedly…I kept wanting to give him “one more chance” until 2 years had passed and he still wasn’t treating me right. I think the two things that kept me going were 1. he was funny and made me laugh and 2. the sex was very good, despite everything else that was going on.

    I’d like to think I’ve grown enough the past couple of years (especially with the help of Rori’s programs and blogs) to not only walk away from someone like this much sooner, but to spot them early on before I get too involved.

    My biggest concern now is that as soon as I see even a hint of behavior that reminds me of him, I’m tempted to give the guy the boot, even if I haven’t even met him yet. I don’t know whether I’m simply being smart or judging people too harshly…what do you think?

  138.  #138Bella on August 7, 2010 at 5:54 am

    Wow Renee, I could have written that myself, it describes my situation exactly. At first he was funny, charming, made me feel safe, made me feel so sexy. What’s even more ironic is your mention of Nashville, is that where you live? I am only about 45 minutes outside of Nashville.

    In my case though I saw how he treated others with deception, even though at the time he was treating me very well. Oh but he had great excuses and of course at the time I just wanted to believe him.

    I also understand how you feel about possibly not giving someone a chance because you associate their behavior with memories of him. I also have that fear, and my wounds are still very fresh, so I am only circular dating myself right now. I feel the more I practice Rori’s tools and REALLY get to know and love myself, the less likely I would not give someone a chance out of fear.

    You said it beautifully, not only will be be able to walk away from someone who is not good for us much sooner, but to spot them early on before getting too involved.

    Even as low as I was in the self-esteem department, I knew in my heart he was bad news, I just didn’t know how to stand up for myself back then. Thank God that is changing!

  139.  #139Renee on August 7, 2010 at 6:54 am

    Bella — you sound like you’re going at this in such a healthy way! CDing yourself right now sounds so nurturing — it’s probably the best thing for you.

    My wounds from this guy are a little older at this point, though he seems to make it a point to try to open them periodically by contacting me…it’s a weird thing too…it seems that he has a 6th sense about when I’m starting to get really interested in someone…as soon as I’d spent the first weekend with long distance guy, he txted and called…he apologized for treating me the way he had in the past and then hinted that he wanted to get together, but never followed through…don’t know if I would have even agreed, but it was yet one more way that he announced, “I’m not the right man for you!”. You know?

    How long ago did you all break up?

  140.  #140Amy F on August 7, 2010 at 7:48 am

    It feels justified that you keep the money. The money is for car repair and the car is yours! No guilt necessary! You are not greedy – you are fair and generous, but you take care of yourself.

    I did not lean forward last night. I turned my phone off. I read a book. I watched part of a funny movie and my focus shifted from him to my own interests. I feel so good today because I am leaning so so so far back.
    Why is this so hard, even after all this time and practice??

  141.  #141Polli on August 7, 2010 at 11:26 am

    i have a new rule…..
    if a man does not value me and cherish me…..he does not get the pleasure of having me in his life….at all. no exceptions, no excuses. no “he has been hurt by other women”, “he is mentally ill”, “he is a narcissist”, “he is a jerk”, “he had a bad childhood”etc etc. there is NO acceptable excuse ever. without being valued and cherished there is never going to be a happy every after with this man, so i am not wasting my time and my heart….i have done way too much of that.

  142.  #142lm on August 7, 2010 at 11:41 am


    this rule rocks.

  143.  #143Melissa on August 7, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    Amy, You said “He knows he has my heart and nobody else comes close, so he’s doing what he can get away with.”
    I am going to remember this every time he tries to suck me in.
    “I need to let him know the relationship is just imaginary and up for grabs until a man steps up to make a commitment.”
    Yup. I am going to use your words & even though there are times I can’t help longing for his affection, I know it not at the level that I want & deserve. If he really wants me. He needs to commit to me!
    Thank you!

  144.  #144Brenda on August 7, 2010 at 9:11 pm


    HE crashed YOUR car. The money is for your car repair. you are fully entitled. IF the other dude had proper insurance, you wouldn’t have given the man any. So he helped make it right. It’s all yours, the way I see it.

  145.  #145Bella on August 8, 2010 at 5:46 am


    It has been five months and zero contact with this man. I feel scared and jittery every time I see a car that looks like his. I feel afraid to see him, because I know we will eventually cross paths.

    I keep studying these posts and practicing the tools, and hopefully I will have my Siren vibe on full-force so when I do see him, I will be “soft on the outside, but strong on the inside.” And I will feel so good because I am in control.

    It sounds like you are doing awesome, and it really does boil down to loving and taking care of yourself!

    This has been such a painful yet enlightening experience, because for the first time in my life I am starting to feel love and kindness towards myself.

    For me it has been a one step forward, two steps back process, and many days feels like a one step forward, ten steps back process, but I’m getting closer and closer to being able to take a step forward, and another step forward, and very few steps back, and that feels good!

  146.  #146Renee on August 8, 2010 at 6:22 am

    Bella — So you and your ex live in the same city? That must be really hard…one of the benefits, I guess, of dating guys who live in other cities is that if things go south, I don’t have to run into them again (at least not in person…

    Five months seems like a long time to go without dating anyone at all…I know you said you don’t feel ‘ready’, but I also remember Rori saying in a previous post that you don’t need to wait until you’re 100% ready before you go out on a date because that day will never come…to actually be ‘ready’ for Mr. Right, you need to have been practicing with other men as well as with yourself. You may have to push yourself to get out there and interact with men and practice feeling messages with some of these men…do you feel like you could at least practice with some men right now? It might do you some good and help build your ‘siren’ vibe…what do you think?

  147.  #147Renee on August 8, 2010 at 6:31 am

    Polli — Your rule is dead on! I sometimes give excuses to men whom I’ve just started dating because I think they may be trying to ‘play it cool’ by not showering me with attention…I don’t know if that’s a good idea or not…what do you think?

    Daria — You are 100% justified in keeping all that money! So your friend did you a favor by helping you negotiate…the money is to help pay for the repairs to your car and, conceivably, the inconvenience of having to deal with getting your car repaired (paying for a rental car if needed while your car’s in the shop). The old me would have said you could take the guy out and treat him to dinner for his part in it, but I do think this is the universe giving you a chance to practice your ‘receiving’ attitude and realize you’re worthy of receiving money as well as attention and the efforts of men in your life.

    If you haven’t said so, by all means, tell this man ‘thank you for helping me — I really appreciate it’, but let him feel the joy of having helped you without sullying the experience by giving back to him…that may very well diminish the experience he’s having right now where he can feel like your “knight in shining armor” for helping you. What do you think?

  148.  #148Bella on August 8, 2010 at 7:21 am

    Renee, yes we live near each other, so it’s only a matter of time before our paths cross.

    Five months doesn’t seem long to me at all because it’s part of my pattern . . . .I usually fall hard for a man, waste precious years trying to “make” the relationship work, making excuses, accepting crumbs, having my heart ripped out, and then waste precious time before I could trust again, only to repeat the same thing.

    This man was by far the worst situation I have ever allowed myself to get in. He became so emotionally abusive towards me for the last year of our relationship that it can be classified as cruel and unusual punishment and I feel traumatized in many ways. I also know this was my wake-up call and the fact that I found Rori, I understand why I was attracting and staying with these kind of men.

    For the first time in my life I am learning to really love myself and discover what I want instead of wearing myself out trying to please everyone else only to be crushed and tossed aside like a piece of trash.

    I’m not sure if this makes any sense, because even though I am working to break my old patterns, and I don’t want years to go by before I will open my heart up again to a man, I still feel paralyzed at times. I feel in my case it’s better to take it slowly, and build my self-esteem back up, otherwise I will panic, feel pressured, and withdraw or worse fall for another ass clown, and that is the last thing I want to do.

    I know I’ll never be 100% ready, but I feel like I need to work through this and do some more healing. I am starting to get out and find things that interest me, but right now it is a huge accomplishment for me if I can even look a man in the eye and smile. I am practicing and re-building my self-esteem in a completely new way.

    Thank you for your encouragement and concern, it feels nice to get your feedback. Please please feel free to give me any suggestions on how I can start meeting men in ways that I won’t feel pressured or act like a deer in headlights when they start paying attention to me.

  149.  #149Polli on August 8, 2010 at 7:29 am

    Renee, in the beginning sometimes i think they are sometimes being cool but when we get into relationships with them that is when we need to heed the red flags they put out. and the “if he does not value and cherish me i am gone”, rule is very simple. in my experience with men, if they don’t treat us right, as if we are important and matter, pretty much up front, they are not going to. pure and simple. maybe they can change, but people don’t often change who and what they are. sad thing is the last man i was with did treat me as if i was valued and cherished at first….til i was hooked. that is the scary thing. BUT however, i stuck around for six months and took it and that is where i messed up. thus my new rule. there were signs in the beginning amongst all the good stuff but i ignored them just like i did every other time. we have to believe that we DESERVE better.

  150.  #150amy on August 9, 2010 at 2:38 am

    does it really work? i tried all the feel good factor for yourself stuff and yet i am still suffering from missing my ex who has not contacted me for one month since the break up. Accepting is really hard.

  151.  #151liz on August 9, 2010 at 10:19 am

    I am new to this blog and am grateful to have found it. I am trying to forget someone and was going to break it off. But after reading Rori’s other post where she said it’s not necessary to break up with someone you like…just Circular date, I’m not sure what to do now. I have always been a “siren.” It comes naturally to me. I have 6 men in my flock presently. However I have met one in particular who I’m crazy about…he treats me like a queen and when I leave him each time I feel loved, cared for and nurtured. Our Chemistry is off the charts. I won’t bore you with how perfect he is. There is one big problem however. And it is not necessarily his fault. A little background…He is from South America who came to the US to live the American dream. Though he has been here for many many years he still has a poor immigrant European mentality. I know because my parents and step parents were all immigrants from Europe during WWII. I love that he is ambitious passionate hard working and creative. He is 40ish and was only married (to a friend not lover he says) to obtain a green card. The problem…he does not recognize my children. He says he would maybe like to have a family one day and yet he doesn’t know why he doesn’t do “the girlfriend” thing very well. I feel he needs me to help him distress (he owns his own business and his mother is dying of cancer). He is self-absorbed and maybe too needy to give right now. Possibly never. I know my femininity, grace and listening skills greatly appeal to him and feel if I didn’t have children we would definitely be “together.” The closer we get the more he withdraws until he needs me again. I’m not always available when he wants as my life is full. Its been 7 years since I have met someone that I really like…as much as him. My last boyfriend adored and cherished me as well. We broke up on account of the large age difference (20 years). I have always dated but once you know what true love feels like its hard to settle. I feel my So American guy has a blueprint he’s following and I see women and men do it all the time…settle for the white picket fence dream only to have it fall apart after time. It is their choice…I did the same thing when I married my husband. My children have taught me the meaning of love. I so wish So America could see that in his attempts toward his “Pursuit of Happiness” (one of his favorite movies), I also have my Pursuit of Happiness survival story…raising 3 beautiful well-adjusted compassionate children all on my own. So do I break it off or do I share my feelings first? Oh btw, I never responded to his comment about not recognizing my children because I was at a loss for words and didn’t know what to say at the time.

  152.  #152Rori Raye on August 9, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    amy – Welcome – and oops….writing too much – I’ll post about this…look for it in about 10 days…Love, Rori

  153.  #153Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 3:01 pm


    I would maybe bring up his comment at an opportune time and speak your heart. If it were me, it would look something like this:

    “Remember when you said you wouldn’t be able to recognize my children as yours? (Pause) Well, at the time you said that, it hit me like a ton of bricks. I felt so in shock that I couldn’t even speak. I wonder if you would be willing to discuss that with me now? (Pause)

    I’m crazy about you…you treat me like a queen, and when I leave you each time, I feel loved, cared for, and nurtured. I love that you are ambitious, passionate, hard working, and creative. Our Chemistry is off the charts. You represent the perfect man to me.

    I feel devastated that my children are an issue to you. It would feel so good to be with a man who could love my children as his own. What do you think?”

    Maybe if you and he were both willing to open up discussion, you could work things out. How do you feel about that?

  154.  #154liz on August 9, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    Thanks Brenda…I think that might be a good place to start. I don’t want him to accept my children as his own…just acknowledging them would be nice. Its like they don’t exist. He obviously has a huge problem with it. It is a very machismo attitude (I understand it being Latina myself). Is he being possessive or selfish? I think he feels shame. I say this because my 15 year old son’s father left when my son was a baby. His father is Chinese and an only son who was neglected by his parents. He came here to make something of his life and prove to every one back home that “he made it.” He could not live with the shame of telling his family and friends that he had a baby with a divorced woman with 2 other children. Still to this day no one knows he has a son. He is angry and bitter, which are the result of not being able to control the situation (and me deciding to keep our baby). Anyway…its a much longer story than that. I will just say that my feelings are hurt because when South America says he can’t recognize my kids he’s basically saying he doesn’t recognize me. My kids are everything to me. Of course I’ve dated extremely successful men who accepted my kids but there was either no chemistry with them or they lied just to keep me for awhile.. My kids can be intimidating…they are all super tall and beautiful and savvy. It has not been easy…I chose to be a stay at home mother to raise them and be close to them. My mother was a single mother and never around and I didn’t want to do the same thing. I work in tv commercials/print modeling as well as real estate but both lines of work are inconsistent. I feel sad…to finally meet someone and be happy only to have to let him go because our belief systems are not aligned. 🙁 I also think its selfish of me to make any demands if he truly wants a family of his own one day. Then again he said he “doesn’t do the girlfriend thing very well” so how on earth can he think about a family?

  155.  #155amy on August 9, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    thanks rori. we hv broken up for one month after four months r/ship. i carefully chose this guy thinking he is THE ONE after 4 failed r/ships with the wrong guy yet he turned his back on me. his reasoning was he cant commit, i am too good to be true but these are nonsensical excuses. i thought after the no-contact rule, he will miss me and call me back for reconcialiation but he did not. i can imagine someone could be so cruel when we shared so much together. he even brought me back home to meet his sister. all in all, i was deceived. i am in my early thirties and i am pretty jaded with rships. I have turned vegetarian for one week to purify any negative karma’s i have to get this guy back.

  156.  #156Brenda on August 9, 2010 at 9:33 pm

    Liz, that is really sad. Clearly he needs emotional healing. Is he seeing a counselor? He doesn’t need to prove anything to anyone back home. He needs to accept himself. And when he does that, he will be able to accept your children.

    Did you see the stuff Erika Awakening is posting on the thread about “You Can Circular Date But He Can’t”? It is empowering! Maybe it’s time to call it quits if the conversation doesn’t get anywhere. Then see if he comes back. Sometimes people don’t see the light until they feel the heat.

  157.  #157liz on August 9, 2010 at 11:00 pm

    Hi Brenda,
    No he is not seeing a counselor…he doesn’t think its a problem. Rori describes it well in her “Difficult Situations” blog I just found. People can be so influenced by their cultural upbringing which forces them to follow strict codes of duty and obligation to their families and/or their religions. I have a friend who told me I was making excuses for these men…but she doesn’t understand. Some individuals just can’t break out of it. I don’t think they are consciously even aware. I don’t want to play therapist (though it worked out well for Cher as Loretta in Moonstruck).

    The closer you become with someone and the more wonderful moments you share, it makes sense a person would want to spend more time with you not less don’t you think? South America is definitely showing me by his actions that he doesn’t want to move forward. Heaven forbid I put a smudge on his “blueprint!” We are very silly together and we make each other laugh. I am going to miss him immensely. 🙁 Thanks again Brenda…I want to be hopeful but I don’t want to get my hopes up at the same time. :/ .I’m going to check out what EA has to say on Circular Dating. Oh I had a lunch date with a man today who has wanted me to be his girlfriend since we met over a year ago. Nice successful wants to offer me the world and make sure my kids are taken care of, but he’s not my cup of tea at all. I wish I could be more materialistic some times instead of such a die hard romantic. I really must put away my Alejandro Saenz and Juanes CD’s! Now let’s see what Erika Awakening has to say…ciao for now. xo

  158.  #158Brenda on August 10, 2010 at 3:48 am

    Liz, I really got a kick out of you saying you wish you could be more materialistic sometimes instead of such a die hard romantic. I can totally relate! But I think people like us are capable of feeling love and pleasure at a deeper level!

    I just love this message Erika gave, and it is totally powerful…I wonder if this would be a good thing to say to South America?

    God chose one man for me, and there is absolutely nothing I can do to mess it up, so if you aren’t willing to acknowledge my children, that makes it very easy on me. You simply aren’t the One. Case closed.

    How do you feel about that?

  159.  #159Lizzie on August 10, 2010 at 6:37 am

    Liz – I think I am missing something or maybe Brenda captured it – are you asking your S American man to love your children as his own? or expecting this of him? How old are your children? I might be missing the post where you described your children in this relationship so I am sorry if I am asking you to repete. Would you share? What is the meaning of “acknowledge my children”? I am sensing a misalingment of dictionaries….

  160.  #160Lizzie on August 10, 2010 at 6:49 am

    Oh Liz – I am sorry – I found the post with the info – I need to ponder….I have had similar challenges as a single mom to two kids I adopted and they are quite the “package” – men go running as fast as they can with their PF Fliers on! and not TOWARD me!! Rori has addressed my question recently. But it would be difficult for me to find it as I don’t do the RSS feed. The message is well captured in Brenda’s last post – there will be and is a great man out there for you who will accept you with your children.

    The therapist I worked with, said that no man will ever love my children the way I wish. That it will be up to them to work out a relationship that works for them. It is best to begin with respect and let love grow inch by inch.

    For me I see it this way – It takes maturity for someone to crack-themselves open and give themselves enough forgiveness that they can include someone new in their circle. I am looking for that same person.

  161.  #161liz on August 10, 2010 at 9:14 am

    Hi Brenda, I think there could actually be more than one right man out there for us. I think relationships are about our growth and lessons. Often if couples don’t continue to grow together in their relationships they eventually grow apart and break up. I don’t think I could say what you suggested I say to So America because it sounds too much like an ultimatum. I do agree if he can’t acknowledge my kids then “case needs to be closed.” Maybe just asking him why it is difficult for him would be better as I want to understand his feelings.

    Another issue I didn’t mention is that we never go out. He’s a homebody who loves to cook and we always have romantic dinners at his place with wine music and candlelight. He always takes much care and effort in preparing these meals. He waits on me hand and foot and is very respectful and attentive when I have something to say. Our eyes are always glued to one another and I feel that we share not only a heart felt connection but a deep spiritual soulful connection as well. We talk about everything…our dreams, fears, spiritual/religious beliefs, our families (both of our mothers are ill of health)…but again he never mentions my children. Our sex is amazingly loving creative( and sometimes naughty) and when we fall asleep he holds on to me the whole night as though he’s afraid to let me go. I know a lot of women who share on this blog are holding out for marriage, but I’m not looking to get married again right now…been there done that. Rori might say he only wants me for a booty call…but my intuition has never let me down. I feel he doesn’t introduce me to his friends because of the whole “shame” thing surrounding my 2 divorces and 3 children. I can only imagine what his ailing mother would say! Ay yi yi! I think the relationship was getting too close for comfort. Its not easy when someone appears in your life and unexpectedly throws a wrench in your plans! I find it so funny that so many romantic comedies are based on this notion. However, in the movies the characters eventually come to realize true love is the only thing that really matters. In real life people aren’t willing to take a chance…its easier to play it safe. No risks no heartaches…

    I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of Guy Blews…he has a fresh perspective on relationships and wrote the book “Realistic Relationships.” Many of his points ring true for me. He’s all about authenticity and addresses both men and women. He believes many schools of thought along with expectations have only served to mis-guide and mis-educate us… hence the high divorce rate and unhappy relationships. For a unique and brutally honest male perspective I suggest all sirens give him a try. Thanks agai n Brenda for your input and concern.

  162.  #162liz on August 10, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    Hi Lizzie..yes there is a total misalignment of dictionaries. Lol. Sorry if I wasn’t clear. My So American guy refuses to acknowledge I have children at all…he doesn’t know how many I have or whether they’re boys or girls. He doesn’t know their ages (20,17 & 15). He doesn’t want to know anything about them. I would never ask or expect any man to take my kids in as his own. My children have their respective fathers and the relationships that they have with them is between them…no matter how shitty the relationships may be. My kids are older now so its a lot easier for me to date. I have had a couple of relationships where the men embraced my kids but my kids were the ones who made it difficult. In the end Lizzie our children will grow up and lead their own lives. I think the best thing to do is look out for ourselves and inspire our kids…my oldest son said to me yesterday, “at least you don’t settle…you won’t give up till you get what you want.” We deserve it!

  163.  #163liz on August 10, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    Lizzie…I wanted to ask you…did you adopt your two children all on your own? Also thanks for your encouraging words. xo

  164.  #164Daria on August 10, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    Lizzie – if i adopted my children fulheartedly i feel very strongly that i want my man to fulheartedly adopt them too. shoot. i mean if i can do it and he can’t? that’s not what i want. ha! dude. he’s supposed to bring even MOre to the table than me. i feel indignant thinking that i wouldn’t expect a man to be able to embark on this with me. helllo! ok i feel mad imaginig this…

    and i feel glad to think that there are plenty of men who gladly adopt children as their own … i want a man that is a g ood father

    wow this is cool. i have never thought about this in my whole entire life. i like this! thank you

  165.  #165liz on August 10, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    Daria & Lizzie…it might actually be easier for a man to accept children who are adopted rather then if they were your own. Also children don’t like a man who is not their father intruding on their family and making decisions and telling them what to do. With adopted children a man who joins your family is not as apt to feel threatened by the birth father. Men will come and go but your children are yours forever and the purest form of unconditional love you’ll ever know <3

  166.  #166liz on August 10, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    Daria & Lizzie…it might actually be easier for a man to accept children who are adopted rather then if they were your own. Also children don’t like a man who is not their father intruding on their family and making decisions and telling them what to do. With adopted children a man who joins your family is not as apt to feel threatened by the birth father. Men will come and go but your children are yours forever and the purest form of unconditional love you’ll ever know <3

  167.  #167Lizzie on August 10, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    Hi Liz- I have similar feelings with my kiddies. They are really special and bringing them home was a major experience in overcoming garganchewan obstacles. As your man won’t even acknowledge they exist, you might wish to think about what message is he bringing to you? My feeling is he is pointing the way to your heart as a hope that the future will bring you your “the one”. He is a very special and temporary visitor. You will find the right time to let him go and then you will be ready to see and experience your soul’s perfect love.

    I am hoping that will happen for me as well. But it is fleeting now. Right now I am overwhelmed with anxiety, trepidation, FEAR in major spades. I am at a complete loss – seems I just might have an STD. I am absolutely crushed beyond belief. Of all blows I have taken in my life, the emotional turmoil of a life turned upside down many times, I just have so damaged myself – I actually had condoms in my purse and didn’t use them. Like what is my problem???? And I won’t know for a week as I am now waiting for the results of a viral culture. I am so crushed and sad and devestated. I still hold on that it is an allergy to the latex gloves – the doctor did use latex gloves so we do know for sure that is still a possibility. But I have bumps not just general redness and she said the bumps are suspicious and have the characteristics of herpes. OH! this is so awful. And I brought it all on myself – I actually know better, I actually had condoms and didn’t use them. This is so bad. I need to step away now for a while. So much for being woman….not any more.

  168.  #168liz on August 10, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    Lizzie…please don’t beat yourself up. It’s my understanding that 70% of all people have herpes. Correct me if I’m wrong. here. It’s a huge risk having unprotected sex and just from now on remember the “no glove no love rule” until you’re in an exclusive committed relationship. How old are your children?

  169.  #169Lizzie on August 10, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    My daughter is from China – 14.5; son Vietnam – 12.5
    I can still not believe how much I am so deeply in love with them. I never knew it was possible to love to people so much. I wish I could love a man and feel the love of one.

    What is worse – I have a project working with HIV people – I actually have a “kit” on my desk – all the goodies for protected sex. It is on my freaking desk!! I am completely choked up about this. And I am supposed to be going on vacation friday with my kids….I think I feel worse than when I found out how much money my ex absconded with…

  170.  #170Jacqueline on August 10, 2010 at 8:40 pm

    Lizzie – hey! I’ve been thinking about you. Did you go to the doctor’s? I don’t know if you saw my post but I REALLY do not think it’s herpes, but you do need to get checked up. Please let me know! And you know, I thought garden guy was a real gent too….but couldn’t figure out how to say that…which you did so well. I’m doing a survey – would you be interested? @ Anyone on here will be invited, if you email, I promise NO spam!!!

  171.  #171Jacqueline on August 10, 2010 at 8:43 pm

    Lizzie – I once like 20 years ago had a breakout around my “rear” that the dr. said was migrating oral herpes…NOT sex ones…..anyway, they stang like fire, I mean hurt waaay worse than nettles, like putting alcohol on a cut. Your reaction doesn’t sound like that.

    I second the calm down, you’re going to make whatever it is worse!! by being so upset – are you better today?


  172.  #172Jacqueline on August 10, 2010 at 8:48 pm

    Even IF it is herpes, I only had like two of those incidents ever!!! and it was when I was totally freaking out – I feel so bad for you, but from what I read these days they’re saying it is the same virus as the oral, etc. yo you can get it from all sorts of sex/play, not just intercourse – even oral stuff. It was a bad judgement call….but…. It is NOT the end of your womanhood! please don’t think like that. I know your horror, I always felt like that if I let myself slide, too. I guess that’s why I’m so relating to this. Please let us know how you are?!

  173.  #173Jacqueline on August 10, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    Just posting to get the H word off the recent comments!

  174.  #174Jacqueline on August 10, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    and it looks likes no one’s around so it’s gonna take several comments!!! I’m going to do a survey for what problem women most want solved in their lives – @ Wanna take the survey? No spam, ever!!! Anyone awake? hope so!!!

  175.  #175Lizzie on August 11, 2010 at 6:11 am

    Hi Jacqueline – I will do your survey – will it be like a cosmo thing and it will tell me how sexy I am????!
    Thanks so much for your well wishes. I am so freaked about the likelihood I have herpes. It won’t be until about 10 days from now – they have to grow the culture to see what it is. The doc said they will test for a variety of viruses. I know it isn’t life or death and I am well on the healing side physically. Emotionally, it will be a little while yet. I talked with one of my men friends and asked if I should call Family Guy and tell him and he recommended I wait until I am absolutely certain.

    What is your study in relation to? Have you got it up on survey monkey?

  176.  #176Lucy on August 11, 2010 at 9:45 am

    Lizzie, I was reading your comments on my phone in bed last night and feeling so bad for what you’re going through right now. I am praying for you, siren sister! XO


  177.  #177Brenda on August 11, 2010 at 10:17 am


    I agree about waiting until it’s certain. Then you could just tell him you got it, rather than saying, “You gave it to me” or whatever.

    Such a stressful feeling…sorry you are going thru this. I hope and pray everything will check out fine.


  178.  #178Jacqueline on August 11, 2010 at 11:26 am

    Lizzie – you do sound MUCH better!!! The quiz isn’t quite completed – but yeah, kind of a Cosmo thing – I want to hear stories and figure out what the ONE biggest problem women want fixed is. Like “all” relationships fight about money, or whatever, is it Mr.Right, is it Happiness, is it Being okay with where we are…..are we all too afraid of rejection, or are we all too picky….grin….like that. When/if you boiled all this down, what is the underlying theme for women wanting a relationship? That’s what the questions will be for…and yeah, they’ll be fun, too! Anyone who sends an email, will get the survey.

    In the meantime, it was hearbreaking to hear you say that about being a woman! and I’m so glad you’re getting one day’s?! lol…perspective about it. Each day will get better, I hope!

  179.  #179Lizzie on August 11, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    Hi Jacqueline – thanks for your well wishes – and from Brenda, Lucy, Dorothea, Daria and all the other wonderful sirens here. The stress is significant and manifest in pains running down my legs and feet. It is so bizzar. But I know I hold onto pain and then circuits overload. I will be off as of Friday for two weeks and in familiar places, with family, and friends and can just practice “being” (altough I did toss in a little work here and there to manage the guilt side of things – right Jennifer? have to wear that “being responsible” hat, so 2 weeks of “play” is just NOT in the cards….maybe one year….). At the same time, I am so incredibly proud of myself that I have stated to my clients that I am on holiday for 2 weeks. This is such a huge step for me. I told my daughter after I picked her up from 3-weeks away at summer camp, that I would take her out to play 9 holes of golf – she is so thrilled. I am going shopping for my son as he picked out a recipe to make dinner for us all by himself! I am feeling proud and looking foward to taking time off.

    Family Guy emailed me this morning to tell me he can’t meet me next week in the other city where we will both be for meetings…and I feel good about that. I feel good and acknowledged that I am not forgotten. I feel good that he says he is stressed – that might seem odd but it tells me he feels comfortable enough to share that with me. I feel good that I don’t need to address my health issue until I am ready and I am not alarming him. I won’t see him for a while and that is OK.

    And, there is a new guy who sent me an interesting note from EH this morning – I just might be able to pull off this CD stuff afterall.

    Thank you sirens, regardless the pain in my legs, I am feeling less stressed. I so appreciate your caring, I can actually feel it and even better, I am open to feeling it. thank you.

  180.  #180Lisa (from across the pond!) on August 14, 2010 at 2:08 am

    Hi Siren Sisters,

    I’ve been away a while on retreat which was wonderful…

    I came across this video today..its brilliant.. Such powerful truth in the words of this present day poet/singer…

    Its called: How to be Alone.

  181.  #181lanay on August 19, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    I am really hurting right now and I am trying to forget my kids father, I keep letting him back in. We have been together for 9 yrs and we have 2 kids together (his first 2). When we met things were great of course, it usually is. But, 6 months into the relationship he moved in and things started to go south. His temper had become terrible because he lost his job, but I could see that this was behavior that had already been there. He had been raised by his mom until age 4. His dad had gotten custody of him and his brother when he was 4 because his mother was on drugs and would constantly leave them home alone with no food and he saw her get beaten several times. Well he told me he had no respect for women because of this. By this time i was pregnant with his first son and I thought the right thing to do was stay together, I had 3 kids already from a previous relationship. At the time they were between ages 9-12, so they were old enough to realize things. He became verbally abusive to me and would yell at the kids over every little thing. Then he would apologize and say he wouldn’t do it again and things would be ok for a couple of months, then things would fall apart again. He was in and out of employment so I was paying for everything, I even gave him my dads car that I had after he passed away, so he could get back and forth to work whenever he was working. I gave him my credit card to make sure he ate lunch and had gas in the car. He told me that I am suppose to do those things and that I wasn’t doing anything special. He became ill with epilespy that he found out he had back in 2004 and couldn’t work again. So I had to pay and take care of everything and everybody. I would drop him and my son off at my moms everyday so she could take care of him, then take the other kids to school and go to work. He still didn’t appreciate me, in return after he got better he cheated on me, while we were in the process of closing on our first house, after I sold my first home I bought by myself. I found out because he had been taking my son around her and having him in the bed while they made out and my son told me. Well I left him, moved into the house and bought a rental property to make up for his half of the mortgage he couldn’t pay. It was Sooo Hard but I started to maintain and things got better. Then guess what happened? You are right he came back crying and apologizing, it took a while but i took him back. About a year after we bought the house, my department that I was working for, for 8 years announced that they were closing. We decided to relocate because the state we lived in the economy was so bad, there was no employment. We moved 1300 miles away from our families where we knew no one. Things had gotten better by this time and the company he had started working for found a job for him in the state we were moving to. Now, I had to find work and he had a job. The table has turned, I never had to depend on anyone to take care of me and my kids, now here I am. I found a job a month later but, I was so stressed from being homesick, we were arguing all the time. This lasted for about 6 months, then everything had gotten a little better. I had taken a job with great pay but, a lot of weekend ours and stress and it was making me so sick and stressed that my hair started coming out and I never saw my kids. He suggested that I get a less stressful job even if it’s less pay and contribute whatever he has too. I took him up on his offer, I saved some money and I resigned. I got another about 5 weeks later for less pay but way less stress. He started complaining a couple of months after I got the job about not being able to save enough money and things started going downhill again. At this time I had gotten pregnant with his second son. He ignored me so bad when I was pregnant I cried almost every night. He made sure I had what I needed but that was it. He talked so nasty to me all the time and started being away from home often. I found out I had diabetes when I was pregnant also and it was so bad I was put on bedrest for the duration of my pregnancy. My grandmother from back home had gotten gravely ill and she passed away and I couldn’t even go to her funeral. That almost killed me in itself. He blamed me for not being able to go to her funeral even if I wasn’t on bedrest because he said it’s my fault we didn’t have enough money saved. He also stated to me that he no longer had a desire to marry me which we had discussed before we relocated. I was so devistated at this point, I wanted to kill myself, I thought about it numerous of times and I still suffer from depression to this day with thoughts of suicide. Well, I found out at the end of my pregnancy that he was cheating with 2 women, so I told him I was moving when I had the baby and I did. It’s been almost a year now and I’m still hurting because I kept letting him come back to me after we moved. He was telling me that he was sorry and that we should move back together. I almost fell for it until he told me that I would have to put my 18 yr old son out because he is not working and he told me that he wants to open up a strip club to better support our family and I have to accept that too. I told him, I am not putting my son out because my son is a good kid and he is still in school, he has made some mistakes but he is still learning. I’m definetly not accepting him owning a strip club, so I told him that we need to stay in our own separate places and move on. But, how can I move on after being with him for 9 yrs, he has made me feel like trash and that no one wants me. How do I get pass this?

  182.  #182Rori Raye on August 19, 2010 at 11:54 pm

    lanay, Welcome, and I’m so sorry you’re finding yourself in this situation – and know this: The low-self-esteem that has got you in this place, that has accepted being trampled on as if it were all you deserved – this is where your life’s work is. We’ll help you get through it and into feeling good and strong as quickly as we can – and the work is all yours. Read everything you can here, and do the Tools, and you’ll feel better and everything will get better. Love, Rori

  183.  #183Erica on August 25, 2010 at 1:31 pm


    I just wanted to say hello. I love reading all of the posts on here. It has been a huge help to me today, since I am having a tough day. Trying to find the strength to emotionally let go of an ex-boyfriend. It seems like it’s not so much the hope that it could get better that is keeping me stuck, but the feeling that I’m a failure since it’s not what I want it to be. Every day that goes by that we are not together feels like my fault, like I am a failure, even though I tried so hard to make it work and he did some pretty horrible things (like cheat), but some amazing things too, like believe in me so so much and teach me so many amazing things. It’s hard to be angry even when someone does something bad, when they have also done so, so much good–more than anyone I’m not related to has ever done for me! Well it’s been a very strange day. Coming to the point where I need to make this decision to let it all go, and then I go out on the street feeling completely broken down and see my ex-boyfriend randomly (the one before him, the only other BIG one). He didn’t see me. I didn’t go to him. It was strange to see him, but I wanted to do things differently, to “lean back” even though it meant not actually talking to him–just seeing him and having my own personal bizarre experience at seeing him at such a timely moment. What could it mean?

  184.  #184Sabine on January 8, 2011 at 6:13 am

    I started crying at this part:

    “..but there were moments where you learned something, or tried a Tool and it worked and made you feel good, or saw a movie you really, really liked, or ate a good meal..”

    because I always imagined there would be a time in the future I’d be able to do those things with Kimbe. And I wonder how I can move on when there’s so much I don’t know about what could have been, what we could have shared. We only “hung out” a handful of times and most of our relationship had been online up until about four months ago. I admit to myself that most of our relationship was dependent on what might happen i the future…when I get divorced, when I go back to school, when things fall in place for me then we can be together…but it hasn’t turned out that way. Although we made plans and promises and had intentions. They never materialized. I never really had him and it hurts because I came so close to him…
    This is so freaking hard.

  185.  #185Patri on July 22, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    Thank you so much for this article.

    I had a 3 month relationship and it ended. It was short but it was really strong and full of misunderstandings. That’s the reason we broke. He didn’t trust me although I was always trying to make him feel my feelings for him. They were real. They are real. He treated me really bad but, for some reason, I can’t erase him. This doesn’t make sense I know. But he treated so good in some days. And when I say good, it was really good, full of attention, romance, love and joy.

    At the beginning of the breakup, things were easier. Now, all I do is crying and thinking. But after reading this, I know that I can do this. Yes, I will think about him everyday but I’ll be living. He still wanders in my dreams at night and I still feel him so close to me.

    Thank you again 🙂

  186.  #186April on August 23, 2011 at 9:08 pm

    I am at the beginning of my pain. Only a month since I got the talk. What is this constant severe depression? Of course when Im circular dating even chatting online I get temporary releif when some guy says (Lower your standards for me. I can make you happy) My problem is my ex left me in a bind. I have little money evenfor gas to go out right now.Ive been wracking my brain on what to do to make myself happy.Its so hard cause I cant even think clearly and am forgetful at work.I am glad for the being able to cry. Id been trying not to do that.Been feeling rage towards him too though I was suppressing it.I keep swinging from sadness, to rage, to grief. I keep a lump in my chest at all times.Maybe if I cry a little more I can get it all out.I am trying to stop my praying to get him back.I keep telling myself he,s no good for me if Im to love myself.That its his stupidity and that someday he will regret his choice just like my ex before him did wanting me back.Oh the pain is so intense I can hardly stand it! But reading this really helps. Thanks Rory so much!

  187.  #187taotao567 on September 6, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    It is not effortless to compose superior material, nevertheless you certainly did the task right here.

  188.  #188April on October 26, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    I got a problem while in dating sites trying to circular date to forget my ex who hurt me really bad. While Im browseing the guys I run across my exs profile. This really hurts. The lowdown letch is in every site there is.

  189.  #189lostsoul on November 21, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    Hi god where do I start .. I met a guy we were together for two weeks then my Dad got really ill, he was really lovely and a great distraction. My Dad sadly passed away four weeks later so the relationship really began on a weird footing. I’ve been up and down, I felt like he really liked me, he was calling loads and texting, coming over lots, it felt like he was holding back but got the impression he was a little insecure. I admit I was doing a lot of ‘doing’ I probably went into a relationship mode straightaway, he encouraged me to talk about my Dad and I was up and down and said that’s what he was here for and we settled into him coming over. I started to get frustrated as I felt like I was putting him first, he started to talk to me in a mean way and if I pulled him up he’d say ‘we’ll you’re talking crap’ he made me feel bad. He kept falling asleep loads and almost ignoring my needs and focusing on what he wanted to do. I started to feel bad. I’ve
    got two kids and the weekends that I’m kid free I want to do things and he was almost oblivious to this and the last weekend we were together when I was child free he was hung over and spent the day lying around falling asleep, luckily I had lots of magazines to amuse myself. On the Sunday the vibe wasn’t good. We spoke everynight then I saw him on wednesday and the feeling was different he wasn’t loving, he was switched off and i felt I should be excited to see him after three days. On Thursday he called me and said ‘I think it’s time to call it a day, he said that he felt there was no spark and he should be madly in love with me by now and he wasn’t. I felt awful. I was sad and disappointed as it’s another failure and he’d only said the other week that he wasn’t going anywhere! He didn’t fill me full of rubbish at all but I just feel crap. He said he’d call as he needs to collect his things he hasn’t yet..why?? He changed his status on facebook
    straightaway and then he deleted me. I can’t understand as we didn’t end on a bad note and he said he’d miss me. I don’t know what to do, how do I handle the situation when he calls?? Also must mention he has had a really weird childhood with a bizarre father who had an affair and left the family. He has no time for him, his mam is lovely but he isn’t close to her but I hit it off with her fantastically and I want to say bye to her but don’t know if I should contact her… I just feel like i’ve cocked it all up ..Please please help? X

  190.  #190miccy on December 12, 2011 at 11:16 pm

    I have a serious problem. a few years back I fell in love with a man when me and my husband was going through a rough patch and I actually thought of leaving him, in the end I did not, I just could not do that to him although I thought I would be happier of with Y, maybe the possibility of it not working out with Y and the unknown put me off completely. Althoug I was very very much in love with Y. The most magical things happened to my body when I was close to Y, I get all warm inside, when I look into his eyes it feels like I am melting, when I was in his arms, it felt like I could stay there forever, he was very sad when I told him I’m not leaving my husband, but he did not push me, he respected my decision and kept his distance, he said he just wants me to be happy (that made me love him even more) Ok, time has passed, 5 whole years actually, me and my husband is very happy, he is in another relationship for a few years, we still talk although not very often and very short conversations, I still care about him, I always will and it is important for me to know if he is happy. BUT, I still keep dreaming and thinking of Y, altough I will never tell him that, there is just too much at stake, and what does it help me telling him if I really have no intentions of leaving my husband, and it is getting really annoying to think of him and it feels like I am being unfaithfull to my husband in my thoughts, and I really do not want to feel like this. How the hell do I forget him?

  191.  #191Rori Raye on December 13, 2011 at 9:08 am

    miccy – wow – this is such a powerful question and situation. I think many of us have been in an “Imaginary Relationship” in our heads, an “Emotional Affair” in a way. And here’s a different way to look at it (I think I’ll use your letter and write a bigger post….) – there are many Mr. Rights out there for each of us. We just sort of “pick one.” You’ve chosen your husband and chosen to stick with it (which is great…that’s what I would recommend) – and you still have your “dreams and fantasies.” For you, sometimes this gets in the way of intimacy with your husband, and sometimes it doesn’t. Sometimes it fuels your self-esteem and boundaries and sense of having options, and sometimes it makes you feel angry and confused. I’d like to encourage you to get some fantasies going in your head with your HUSBAND. Similar kinds of ones, with passion, and amplifying his good and sexy qualities. At first this might actually feel frightening…Let me know. Love, Rori

  192.  #192nayeli on December 17, 2011 at 10:34 pm

    OMG!! guys i know just how you feel and I’m still in the process of healing. I’m barely 20 years old and i already went through the black hole that such relationships lead you. i met a man when i was 18 years old, which a friend of mine introduced him to me. the first time i saw him i felt something so hard to describe, there are just no words in any language. It was not my friend’s intention for us to develop a romantic relationship because at that time i didn’t know he had another relationship going on, he even had 2 children. since i didn’t know that at the moment, he took advantage and make moves towards me and i fell for them like a fool, we even kiss on the first day we met. to make a long story short i became aware of the situation too late for us to stop. i even tried to put distance between us because i knew it was wrong. in the months we were going out he explained to me that his “girlfriend” was not in love with him. Strange enough she and I were friends, she even told me that i should start dating HIM because she could notice he liked me and that i love their children. to shorten the story even more, we finally became officially girlfriend and boyfriend almost a year after we met. My friend never knew anything about us until the very day we became a couple. my friend was mad at our relationship, i didn’t know why at that time. anyways, the big point of all of this is that he was the man of my dreams, my first “time” was with him (if you know what i mean). He promised me tons of beautiful things that even now (a year later of our breakup) i still somehow dream they were true. we even made plans to get married, he pictured a world where we were happy and i was eager to live in that dream. For strange reasons, that i still don’t understand, he broke up with me, the only excuse i could make him spill was that i was too “dramatic” which i can tell you honestly he was the drama queen ( i don’t have any reasons to lie to you, i don’t even know you). He is still my friend and every time we met my heart melts and i shiver. My friend told me that he knew HIM as the “womanizer” he is, and he didn’t told me because both of us were their friends. He told me he didn’t tell ME because he though we were not serious and that i looked so happy to burst my bubble that way, and either way i wouldn’t believe him. Now HIM has a girlfriend, that he met at work. My friend tells me how he speaks of her and all the things he do with her. I know my friend know that he is not even half serious with her as he was with me. I know he tells me the truth and i know he mean no harm on telling me all of this, he only want me to move on and to face the truth, that he doesn’t think of me as often as i think of HIM (winch is every day). Like i said before HE is still my friend, and sometimes he tries to hit on me, he doesn’t treat me like the “friend” we say we would be. i mean, he even gets mad when i tell him about other men that i get interested in, and makes me feel depressed and like I’m not good enough to find someone better than him. but the bastard, he actually tells me about his girlfriend and all the girls he thinks are hot in front of me like nothing, like i don’t have any feelings and that he is the only one with the right to get mad when another man approaches me. I don’t know what to do, when I’m not with him i truly want to move on and to cut every communication with him, to try to get him out of my life and heart, but the moment he lays his eyes on me every thing vanish and all i want is to do is to spend time with him. all i want is for him to look at me and smile, make him feel happy. its horrible because I’m happy when I’m with him so much that when the time to depart comes, my heart breaks into million of pieces, and all i want to do is cry and die. i need some help, i know that, but I’m afraid to talk to him and tell him how i feel, that he should stop acting like that with me and I’m so scared he would leave me. I’m afraid he would be braver than me and cut any bonds we had left and never see him again. any help would be appreciated….

  193.  #193April on December 18, 2011 at 4:50 am

    I had a fleeting but great moment for the first time in months since my painful breakup. I had left town and came back because I didnt like New England where I had moved. My ex is president of an A,A, club where he had made me member. When I got back to town I ran into a lady from his club who couldnt stop hugging me and almost begged me to come back to the club. When I re upped my membership everyone was thrilled to see me so I came back every so often. One day he popped in and saw me. To bepleasant I smiled when I saw him and sid a polite hello. He voiced his dislike very quickly about me being there and said I shoulsnt be there because he,s trying to move on and I should too. I politely told him I wasnt there to bother him and he was very mean and rude to me. At that same moment a very good looking guy who had been talking to me saw the tears in my eyes and came up and touched my shoulder and comforted me and told me I had evry right to be there and that just because my ex had a problem and was acting immmature didnt mean I should be upset. This guy touched my heart enough to do 2 things, 1 help me see just how inadequite my ex was and how silly it is for me to pine away for him. And 2 Make me think of this guy who was so sweet and like a knight in shining armour . Now I,ll be going there for yet another reason and I know as I get excited to see this guy my ex who thought I was there to bug him will see a I dont even notice you,re here vibe. I truely think I might,ve come a step closer to getting over him.

  194.  #194Beth on January 4, 2012 at 8:17 pm

    Hi everyone… I need some advice. First of all, I have been with my boyfriend (both never married and in our mid to late 40s) for about 3.5 yrs. He has been my best friend for 4.5. We have been stuck doing very long distance (a flight with a connection) for the entire time, seeing each other every 1-2 months. It’s been hard. I wanted to get married when we met but he’s backed off on that idea. He has had a lot of business problems and law suits to deal with. Now he isn’t sure that he even wants to live together due to commitment issues, and he is also very anal about his place and how it is kept.

    A month or so ago I got frustrated and broke up with him as he cancelled on visiting me for the 2nd or 3rd time in a row. I felt bad after because I really do love him and tried to take it back but he wouldn’t let me! He likes the break idea… So now he still wants to see me but to take things “slow” even tho I’ve been waiting for so long (and was willing to move there if he is on board and I can find a job). I don’t want him to turn me into “just a friend” and don’t think he is trying to do that but I’m confused… I love him and if there is hope, I don’t want to cut off communication but at the same time it sure doesn’t look like there is hope and maybe I need to move on!? One BIG caveat… I feel like his commitment issues are partly my fault. I was too clingy and insecure and asked too many questions when he went out with girl friends. I feel like I pushed him away because I wasn’t getting what I wanted and it turned into a vicious circle. It took everything I had to stay away during the holidays and I cried every day from Nov. 23rd til about yesterday. I feel like I lost my best friend forever….

    So Rori, gang… What should I do? Keep talking to him but let him do all the effort? Accept that I messed up, accept the loss and move on? Or try really hard to apologize for putting pressure on him, being selfish and acting insecurely and try real hard to “fix” things? He admits he has “commitment issues” so maybe he will never come around. Please answer. I’m lost. It has been SO hard doing all this over the phone. I feel like if we just talked about all this in person, the results would be quite different!


  195.  #195Beth on January 4, 2012 at 8:33 pm

    I want to add that his business issues have been BIG! He had his partner and friend betray him and has lost a lot of what he has worked for for most of his life, esp with the bad economy. Very sad and hard stuff…. It has had a profound affect on who he is and he has some big financial issues to deal wiht but that’s also why he can’t move. I also want to add that due to a hobby we both have which is how we met, we both socialize with girls and guys all the time. He wasn’t just going out with girl friends alone without me. Well, except for one initially during our first year of dating but she was a regular dance partner of his and engaged to someone else so I didn’t mind a ton. Def still felt a bit weird about it though. Somehow I picture them being a perfect couple, though I feel that he seems to prefer super young cute girls (even tho I look 10 years younder than I am). That just could be my insecurity talking I guess tho…. His ex before me was 17 yrs younger and shamelessly chasing him and trying to cause trouble for me/us.

    Btw, which ebook should I read? I can’t decide!?

  196.  #196miccy on January 17, 2012 at 11:14 pm

    Rori. Wow. I would never of thought of that idea, I have been searching the internet everywhere, I always try to better my relationship with my husband, things are going great but there is always always room for improvement and I believe you should constantly be working on you’re relationship. Relationships is hard work and commitment.Thank you so very much for this advice. I will definitely try this, this could just work! I want to fall in love all over again with my husband, I want to feel this love and think this thoughts about him and not of Y. I will let you know.

  197.  #197miccy on January 17, 2012 at 11:31 pm

    Nayeli. I am no expert in relationships, but I believe believe you can have any man you want. You should decide if you really want him, and if you do, go for it, and if you don’t..try to forget him ( I know how difficult this can be)read Rori’s posts, it is truly insightful. He will be you’re slave for life. Goodluck and keep us posted

  198.  #198Shasta on April 9, 2012 at 9:21 am

    Rori, I do need your advice. We have been together for almost 5 years. The first 2 years were wonderful but then he started becoming distant. He gave me the talk last December before Christmas. He said he didn’t want to get married, he didn’t want to have children, he said he didn’t feel the passion and that I was not the one. I did not have your ebook at that time, and I really did not know what to do. I just went out a lot more and dressed up more to salvage my pride. He went away for work for a few weeks and when he came back, he sort of changed. I rationalized with him that we were great together and we should stay together. He agreed. We had a happy one month together and then suddenly he got restless again and when he went away for work and did not call me, I called him 5 times just to make sure he was ok. The next thing I knew, he had the talk with me again. This time he wanted to move out. There were tears, scenes, but nothing I said, or did helped the situation. I wrote him 2 emails to try to get us both to work on the relationship but he would not. After reading your ebook, I realize now that I made a lot of mistakes. I saw a lot of warning signs the relationship was in trouble, but I chose not to see it. But Rori, I love him and I do want to save this relationship. But how do I save it when we are no longer living together and he is miles away? He still has some clothes and stuff in the house but that’s it. He is coming by tomorrow to pick some clothes up. I do want to reach out to him, but he has asked me to move on, we are friends only. Please help!!

  199.  #199Rori Raye on April 9, 2012 at 11:20 am

    Shasta – you’ll get a lot of support here for moving on and away from this man – because that’s what you need to do. Once you learn to control your masculine, chasing, rationalizing impulses towards men and learn to be a Modern Siren – all kinds of men will show up for you…and he’ll want back in. Only you won’t want him then…that’s the way it works. Love, Rori

  200.  #200Ann on April 23, 2012 at 5:41 am

    Dear Rori
    I met this great guy and we went out for 3 months. During this time he he was adoring and attentive and I traveled away a lot. He introduced me to his kids. His birthday is coming up tomorrow and I had bought him a special “artsy” gift form abroad and concert tickets. He has made it clar that he does not want to talk to me during this time about “any other issues” as he would be uncomfortable doing it and said he needs time.

    I sent him 2 emails rationalizing but not begging. I opened up letting him know would respect his request for time.

    Having read th blog I think I shoul not have said anything but If forgive myself and accept my acions anyway. I want to lean back and move forward in my life. I would love for him to give the relationship a chance.

    The questions I have is: Should i send him the “artsy” one of kind gift form abroad since i belongs to him anyway or would that be seen as chasing him? I am so confused.

    I don;t want to be seen as begging or leaning forward yet I do not want to ignore his birthday especially since I bought him the gift anyway! help!!!

  201.  #201Rori Raye on April 24, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    Ann – do NOT send him anything! Do not call, do not email – please., please start dating other men NOW!! Love, Rori

  202.  #202Ann on April 24, 2012 at 9:47 pm

    Dear Rori

    Thanks for your advice. The beautiful gift was wrapped and tucked away. I slipped and texted a brief and short Happy birthday with no frills message just because i felt like I would be fighting too hard to acknowledge something as simple as a birthday. He tested me hors later to say thanks for e=remembering. I slipped again and sent a brief cryptic message saying “there was more…” I am now leaning back and although I have a feelings of waves of sadness and loss sweeping over m intermittentl , I have been watching the “Modern Siren” program and my vibe and perspective is changing . I embrace and love myself and I have been using the uncaged tool to help me me move forward and shift my energy. Thanks so much for your advice. I forgive and love myself deeply. Thanks sirens for sharing your life journeys . I feel so encouraged by you all……

  203.  #203Radlove on April 25, 2012 at 9:35 am


  204.  #204Ann on April 26, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    Hi Sirens!

    Thank you for your support. The guy wrote and said it was over. I slipped and made a call to him and asked him to call back so that we could talk over the break. He called and we talked. I did not beg of grovel. I had to watch myself not to do it. At some point I was about to negotiate..BUT I PULLED BACK.

    No drama, said that he was right and that I too would stand by my feelings and move on. I cannot thank you enough for the advice here. It has made me strong. My profile is back up online and I am ready to CIRCULAR DATE.

  205.  #205Ann on April 26, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    Hi Sirens!

    Thank you for your support. The guy wrote and said it was over. I slipped and made a call to him and asked him to call back so that we could talk over the break. He called and we talked. I did not beg of grovel. I had to watch myself not to do it. At some point I was about to negotiate..BUT I PULLED BACK.

    No drama, said that he was right and that I too would stand by my feelings and move on. I cannot thank you enough for the advice here. It has made me strong. My profile is back up online and I am ready to CIRCULAR DATE.

  206.  #206Betty Matz on April 30, 2012 at 11:55 am

    I looked through your questions and difficult situations etc…. Didn’t find one exactly like my scenario. I have been dating a man for 9 months. I am 45. He is 55. He was officially divorced (for the second time) 2 months after we met but had been “separated” for almost 2 years before that. His wife had an affair, for two years, divorced him, ruined him financially and now, after a year divorced and because her bf left her, she wants him back-her ex husband/my bf. My bf never wanted the divorce. He did love her-they were married 17 years and most of all he did not want to be separated from his children. He is a wonderful father. So, she has recently made it clear to him that she would like her family to be together again. He had told me in the past that he had the feeling she was wanting to reconcile but that he loved me more and that he would never go back to her even if he and I were not together. I can understand that when we are actually confronted with the situation, we never know how we will actually feel. This is the mother of his two children (16, 12) and he did have a very long, dysfunctional, non-sexual relationship with her. BTW, she is bulimic and was sexually abused-thinks sex is terrible…. Where are we right now? He asked for some time to figure things out. He wants to continue to see me and talk to me and stated he wants to go to our Kabbalah class tonight and then to dinner. I believe he is a very sincere man who feels very confused right now. He obviously has concerns about her or he would have already gone back to her. He obviously feels strongly for me, that he is not leaving me or willing to let me go. He has stated that he is not going back to her (I say “yet”) and that he wants to see me but just doesn’t want the pressure of being bf to anyone right now. He is not going out with her but he must interact with her when picking up kids…. I have backed off completely and am allowing him all the time and space he needs. I am open to circular dating. He will have to decide what he wants and if it is me-will have to pursue me as he did 8-9 months ago. Questions: (1)Do I have sex with him while he is taking time and we are seeing each other/going on dates….? I am not a person who has sex outside of relationship and he knows that. But it’s kind of a gray area with us right now. (2) How much time do I give him before I let go and move on? Thanks so much Rori. I anxiously await your response. Peace, love, and health, Betty

  207.  #207Rori Raye on May 1, 2012 at 9:34 am

    Betty, I’m deleting your last name for your privacy…and, from my point of view – you can’t do anything wrong here. There is absolutely and utterly NO reason for him to go back to the ex in this situation. None (the kids have already been through the hell of the mess of the divorce, and they’re older now – and he’d be setting a terrible example for them if he doesn’t really “love” the ex) – unless he WANTS to, for whatever convoluted reason. So – start dating other men, and decide if you can handle having this man as a lover – or if you’d be better off choosing another man for a lover and merely “dating” this man without sex. I can’t tell you what to do – but I don’t know a woman who could stay cool and still have sex with this man in this situation. I know I couldn’t, and wouldn’t want to. If it were me, I wouldn’t even consider dating him at all if he was “dating” or even “interested in” an ex. I’d cut off contact and let him figure it out on his own. Not for strategy, but for my own sanity…Love, Rori

  208.  #208Tess on May 31, 2012 at 3:15 pm

    Hi Betty,

    We have a somewhat similar situation and can honestly relate with you. My bf went back to his family after almost 4 years of us being together…simply because of the children or is it? There were so much lies, dishonesty and deceit that I could not believe that I was really duped!

    Anyway I have put boundaries for myself and just cut off the ties completely. Funny how he can’t sort of let go as he leaves offline messages. Never did I respond to those.

    All I know is I have to step back and look after myself and find my true self worth. These kind of men who has indecision such as an excuse if just so damn selfish for they think they can get away with it and have everything on their plate.

    Hard as it may be to be honest because he is the love of my life…life goes on and its up to you to make that choice too if you are willing to put up with all the crap and baggage he has.

    All the best to you Betty and I hope that you find someone else who truly deserves you. We all deserve the best.

    Thanks Rori…I find your site really helpful and its true with what you have said…”convoluted” ideas he is showing to his kids! Totally agree!!! Don’t be a part of that world Betty…for your own sanity and self respect.


  209.  #209Rori Raye on May 31, 2012 at 4:48 pm

    Tess, for me – if a man can’t be with you and make a happy life with you – he CANNOT BE the “love of your life.” No way. Love, Rori

  210.  #210Unsure on May 31, 2012 at 4:53 pm

    Hi Rori,

    Thank you for your reply…its an eye opener with what you have just said…:)


  211.  #211Jaanvi on July 23, 2012 at 3:17 am

    hi all of u. i am very upset. I have been ditched by a boy whom i loved so so much.we ere into relatnship 4m last 8 years.but due to sm circumstances our marriage was nt posble. But he stepped into sm othr reltnshp wid a girl. M v v v upset. I moved on and found a boy who loves me a lot. I carried on wid him.but again he is also refusing 4 marriage as his parents are not allowing inter caste marriage. Why with me yar. 2 times. M fed up. Ply help me. Help me.

  212.  #212NOURHAN on July 24, 2012 at 5:09 pm


  213.  #213NOURHAN on July 24, 2012 at 5:16 pm


  214.  #214Rori Raye on July 24, 2012 at 9:10 pm

    Nourhan, Welcome – and please don’t use all caps (if it has to do with your vision, or some other problem, let us know, otherwise I’ll have to delete your comments). Love, Rori

  215.  #215Jaanvi on July 27, 2012 at 12:32 am

    i dnt respect him now. But what about 2nd boy? Again i fell in love and again i got the same. Whts my mistake yar?? Why this is happening wid me. I lost my own self respect now by falling into their legs. What should i do???

  216.  #216NOURHAN on August 9, 2012 at 6:03 pm


  217.  #217NOURHAN on August 9, 2012 at 6:08 pm


  218.  #218linda on September 15, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    Hi Rory
    your messages are awesome thank you they ring so true but i have trouble forgetting a man i was seeing for 7 months. it has now been 7 months since we have stopped. we never officially broke up because İ had to move countries and the only way to stay was if he married me but he said he didnt see 2 years later with me and he thought my family and circle of friends were not so great . at first we kep on talkıng on the internet then we finally cut off contact when i realized he started dating a girl even younger than me (we had a 10 year age difference.) the way he cut me off was very unkind and he always acted arrogant and even changed his relationship status to in a relationship on Facebook while he had never done that with me. she’s very young (20) and i dont think he is really in love with her either. thing is he broke all my faith in people and i have a hard time trusting people and i know it’s because he always made me feel in a backhanded way while i was in that ‘relationship’ that İ was not good enough for having a weird family not being tidy enough not being successful enough. i put everything out there all my ‘dirty laundry’ and he in turn rejected me like İ would never be an option. i never outright asked for us to give it a second go because of pride and i never would even though i cried so hard for months and months in private and went on smiling at work. i was like a broken person like a vase that had been smashed into pieces and even though i could glueit back iwould never be the same. and i wish i could feel indifference for him. and the funny thing is even though he is arrogant and thinks he is right in his ways i still wish we were together even though i also resent him for making me a ‘filler girlfriend’ and me thinking he really cared. how can i stop thinking and feeling for him because i really wish to let go and not be pained about the ways in which he broke my heart?? Thank you for listening i look forward to your wise advice:)

  219.  #219Kim on September 25, 2012 at 9:07 am

    This is not a comment but a question….

    Can divorced couples reconcile and find love again? What steps do you recommend for setting boundaries to protect my heart and self-esteem?

  220.  #220Shannon on September 26, 2012 at 12:48 am

    I also need help to forget him please. I’ve been with my guy 3 and a half years off and on. I used to go to grade school with my guy. I also know that I normally wouldn’t have ever dated not to this extent. My Guy has been divorced ten years, doesn’t have anything all he won in his divorce settlement he left to his 3 children everything!!!! He got to me by helping me threw my divorce(almost 5yrs ago)and I am also almost a 5yr Cancer survivor (Thank you thank you.) After 2 months of dating My Guy hurt himself on the job and could no longer work. I also was not working but I atleast have property that allows me to not work(Iwas a carpenter for 18yrs.) He didn’t Let me give up my fight and so I wasn’t about to give up on him. Due to Children, Parents he tried to leave me 3 times before But, I always took him back he’s my bestfriend Right? A year ago we moved his Mom out of a (pay by week) hotel and rented a small 2bedroom flat. I had to start dropping hints about him getting a job anything to help with the bills. I had given up doing alot for myself to try and make this all work. We do not go anywhere anymore and about alittle over a month ago his comments normally I’d never let bother me I’d have a smart-assed remark and that would be that. I had started feeling some distance between us I also let him know I felt this way and his remark was something like “It’s not distance between us Its just we’ve been together so long things are just getting kind of old.” I’m on ALERT now. Communication between us went way down. Last nite we fought over me running to get his medication (something I’ve done a 1000 times before) he wants to do alone, now I am already on ALERT so I say something like “Fine we want to go alone so badly then go”, He almost at the door then realizes he has no money turns to me and asks for some money, and for the first time in 3+yrs I said No. After the initial shock we fought all nite then, I went to sleep on the couch and, he went in our bed. The morning was very quite for about a hour, he then walking toward me with open arms gives me a hug and apologizes making me feel so much better but, still leary. At lunchtime the doorbell rings and its his trouble cousin that he had a fallout with and didn’t really talk to anymore also, this is the cousin that before dating me My Guy lived in his attic. (Great) I go to the bedroom and they all sit at the kitchen table and visit for about a hour.(Is everything all better?) I’m taking a shower and showing no concerns but inside I’m dying. After setting out things for dinner he tells me he’s gonna shower (WHAM) (He normally showers at nite or very early Morning) Calm as can be I tell him I’m going to The store to pick up his prescription won’t be but a hour be back and he walks me out as I am leaving he looks at me and “Aren’t you gonna give me any sugar?” with puckered lips he says. On my cell phone atleast, at the grocery store I do not get very good reception outside the store My phone shows 3 missed calls all 3mins apart, I call back no answer. His mother calls me back seeing that I called and he’s not home and she doesn’t know where he is. I get home he still isn’t there or around. Trying to maintain I’m half-ass straightening up anything in the house I can find just to keep my mind busy. At nite we normally walk the dog together before we settle in for the nite. Putting the walk off trying to wait for him ahour goes ahour and a half I can’t any longer the dog and I proceed outside and low and behold he is right there. Asking him where he was he replies “I just went for a ride” I loose it thats it I’m leaving you I’m not putting up with this!!! He says why do you think “I’m cheating on you?”I reply “I didn’t but obviously you are thinking or doing that to me. Thats why I am leaving you!”I left, Are my actions justified? Did I do the right thing? Why does it hurt so badly? Help me please, Motherless.

  221.  #221Rori Raye on September 26, 2012 at 7:35 am

    Shannon – Welcome, and I wrap my arms around you in a big hug. Here you are – doing the right thing for yourself, after years and years of acting like a man’s mother, like the man in the relationship, taking care of a man. If this is the way that feels best for you – then I support your looking for the same kind of arrangement – just with a better man who has a job, or at least brings in enough money to make himself feel good. If not – then please read everything here, get my newsletters, read the ebook – get Modern Siren and reclaim and develop your feminine energy – which has been laying in a deep ditch for most of this relationship, and has now finally surfaced to say “No.” Love, Rori

  222.  #222krithika on October 15, 2012 at 5:33 am

    what i say is i cnt forget him cuz my love true !!!!:p
    so guys never try this

  223.  #223Amanda on November 11, 2012 at 3:55 pm

    I recently got an “answer” from my boyfriend of 4 1/2 years re: marriage. He said and I quote ” I will never be the man you marry” I felt like I couldn’t breathe like someone had kicked me in the stomach. I of course went into over functioning mode asking a zillion questions about why did he ask me to look at rings/ ask about what kind of wedding/honey moon I wanted if he had no intention??? Its very confusing and now I don’t have that sliver of hope that I thought if I backed off he would come to me. I’m having a really hard time with this as we had lived together (I moved out about a month ago) and renovated our home to our tastes not to mention we had a lot of fun together/ etc etc Reading this article is very hard as I don’t see how I could be any fun to anyone right now and try to go out since I’m a mess. The feelings I have are so overwhelming.

  224.  #224Radlove on November 11, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    ((( Amanda )))

    OUCH! How awful. I can imagine the pain you are feeling right now. Just let yourself fall apart and grieve for a while. The pain you are feeling is a reflection of the depth of the love you felt.

  225.  #225Amanda on November 11, 2012 at 5:41 pm

    Thank you Radlove! I have been watching videos that Kristen has posted on another article- Abraham Hicks on Youtube- great supplement to Rori!

  226.  #226miccy on December 13, 2012 at 11:12 pm

    Dear Rori. I just want to give you an update on my question posted #190 and your answer #191
    It is now exactly one year later since my post and 6 years of still loving Y. In this year I tried everything to better my marriage and trying to bring the feelings back that I don’t feel for my husband. I read up on the internet, “how to be the best wife” and similar articles. As a result, our marriage is going great. We get along, we don’t fight and to him and everybody else we just seem like the perfect couple. There is only one problem…….my feelings is gone, I am alone and empty inside. I wake up every morning telling myself that “love” is a decision, that I can decide to love my husband and I should not depend on feelings. And my husband adores me, I am like a “god” to him, he never looks at other woman and I am the only thing that matters to him, his happiness is completely dependent on me. I realize now that it always was. And I am thinking maybe I cracked under the pressure of him relying one me and it smothered and killed my love. I really don’t know if this is what happened, but it is a possibility. I made a promise and I feel completely responsible for him and now I am also thinking that is why I never left him for Y. I would rather sacrifice my own happiness for him, and I still feel that way. It feels like I am having a loaded gun in my hand, pointed right at his heart. And he is looking at me, trusting me not to shoot him. And I will never be able too. And he is completely at ease because why would I, according to him everything is going great. I am not jealous of him at all, I am actually so hopeful that he would come home one day and tell me he found somebody else because I will cry the tears of happiness of being FREE. Now back to Y, we kept contact as always and talked about this and that but never about our feelings. a Few months ago He invited me for lunch one day and I saw him for the first time in almost six years, and we just laughed and talked and it felt great and relaxing. We also spoke on the phone a while ago, and for the first time ever, he actually admitted to having feelings for me, and as he was starting saying it I imagined that I could actually hear his voice break with emotion, nanoseconds before he put the phone down in my ear. He phoned me back a few minutes later, sounding contained again and made an excuse about someone being at the door. We continued speaking for over an hour and I admitted to him that I want to be with him but that I am afraid. He asked me to explain to him what I am scared of and he listened quietly as I tried to explain my doubts, fears and unanswered questions to him as honestly as possible . He told me that he does not have the answers either, but that I don’t have to be scared because we have time…we can take baby steps and we will find the answers along the way. I don’t have to decide anything yet. We decided to start seeing each other, after I explained to him that I feel too guilty too see him, he said that he respects my morals and values and he promised to take it upon himself that we don’t get physical so that we can minimize my guilt, and also said that we wont get physical because he is not prepared to share me. And I told him that I also don’t want that. If ever we decide (when the time comes) that we want to be together, I want “us” to be as pure and beautiful as possible under the circumstances. He sent me the most beautiful clip the next morning, about a guy that gave up his life so that his girlfriend could live. i was completely amazed, I am so use to it that he is always just the joker. He then commented that I deserve the best because I have a heart of gold. I will keep you updated. Thanks so much for helping woman all over the world, learning to love themselves and how to handle relationships

  227.  #227sequoia on January 21, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    I recently was rejected from an imaginary relationship. We were in contact 3 years after we breifly met over fb, and I fel inspired to write this as I just read your new letter reg. fb Rori. He added me, he wrote me, even so he was in a relationship. Sometimes it felt like he was flirting with me while he was in his relationship. Often I didn’t write back as I liked him more than a friend, and he wrote again and again and than one day he was single again and invited me. I knew it wasn’t the best thing to visit him but I did and from the start he gave me mixed messages but the chemistry just drew me in. He said he doesn’t want to be in a relationship right now and he’d like us to start getting to know each other slowly. It was hell for me as nothing much changed from how it was before ~ just messages on fb, no calls as he didn’t like speaking on the phone, and he had no time to meet much as well (long-distant). I wasn’t able to circular date, only for a little while and I was faking it, pretending to feel not attached. I did my best with the feeling messages but because I felt nothing was moving and building I got impatient and felt so unadored they were not positive most of the time – I just couldnt help it and he complained that I was demanding to much from him. On top of that just writing each other triggered misunderstandings and I ended up defending myself….So in the end I withdrew from the whole thing and he too. I made the mistake to contact him again just recently and he wrote back telling me that he met a women shortly after we both agreed to not get into a connection and that they both decided now to enter a new relationship. I felt so betrayed by this as I felt fooled by him. Anyway I want to make him to my muse, to integrate the things I felt inspired by in his life,eg. playing music, horse riding… but there are these negative feelings of feeling fooled by him and I also feel angry with myself that I was so naive that I ignored the very early signs and did let myself slip into an imaginary relationship I feel blocked me from making him to my assistant. I felt so betrayed that I defriended him on fb – esp. as I knew he wanted to stay casually in contact with me. I have to confess that I still have hope that he might turn back around now that I have cut all contact, that he misses me and starts persuing me again. I know so that it doesn’t help me. I started putting myself out there and I had a few dates however suddenly all has come to a stand still. Guys cancelling dates because they are sick 3 times now and guys who wanted to call me never calling me again. I wasn’t into them so I didn’t mind, but it felt weird. I feel its the time to focus completely on myself to start new things, nurture myself, do yoga, take horse riding lessons….just be happy with my own company.