How To Get Over Him – Step-by-Baby Step

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Here’s a comment from Amy that speaks for all of us at one time or another:

Rori, does it really work? I tried all the feel good factor for yourself stuff and yet I am still suffering from missing my ex who has not contacted me for one month since the break up. Accepting is really hard.”

Here’s my answer:

Amy – welcome, and here’s the deal:

We suffer.

And…so what?

Who said you had to “accept” – WHAT?

You’re broken up.  He’s gone.  That’s what IS.

Grieving and sadness and pain are feelings we feel.

The depth of those unhappy feelings has a lot to do with subconscious impulses and triggers that we don’t even know about.

The question to ask yourself is – am I going to let this sadness RUN ME?

Am I gong to have what I want no matter what’s going on now?

Can I accept what is and not fight it so I can keep living my life – no matter how BAD I feel?

There’s nothing that says you can’t go on hikes and to free art classes and groups of all kinds and speed dating and have a coffee date every single night with a different man from…no matter HOW you’re feeling.

Giving up unhappiness is a spiritual journey.

We can talk about that if you like, and I touch on it in most of my programs.

It means getting your head and thoughts off of other people, off of your past or future, and planted firmly in the present – where you allow your senses, your body and your heart to take over. My ebook will help you with this – it’s the Listening at Level 2 Tool.

For now – try this:

1. The moment you catch yourself thinking of your ex – really CATCH YOURSELF.

Awareness is the major, crucial first step.

The faster you catch yourself, the faster we’ll get out of this stuck space.

2. Don’t do anything.

This means you want to CATCH your thoughts, your actions, what you do next.

I really mean that – don’t get to another thought in the same cycle you find yourself always going through without catching it.

Your job here is to find the pattern you normally follow.

If you start going to the next thought you always go to – blaming him, or blaming you, or thinking about an old conversation, or what you should have said, or…anything….CATCH YOURSELF AGAIN.

If you start doing something you always do (eating, drinking, smoking, partying…) – CATCH YOURSELF and try something ELSE! (Search the posts here for ‘Channeling” and you’ll find how to make a list to work with…)

We want to stop your spiraling downward.

3. Now – discover the FEELING your body and heart is feeling that’s behind the thinking and words and pictures going through your mind.

Zero in on your body – find where the tension is…and try to put a name to what you feel:

Anger. Fear. Guilt. Sadness. Hope. Despair. Grief.

See if you can discover OLD feelings getting tacked onto this experience – old grief, old fear, old assumptions about what will happen or why what happened happened.

4. Let the feeling your feeling be with you

If it’s a bunch of feelings, allow yourself to go from one to the other, and relax your body in small bits in the presence of each feeling.

If they stay in a chaotic clump – that’s okay, too. Just feel the whole sense of chaos.

You’ll likely need to get down on the floor to do this …you might not be able to stand up – and I don’t want you to try.

5. Allow the feelings to overtake you – and notice if fear is getting stronger – or – surprisingly – starting to FADE!!

Fear and pain is almost always about our fear of our fear. In other words, the most terrifying thing of all is US!

We’re terrified of the depth of terror and rage within us…and we’ll do almost ANYTHING to keep from feeling it.

Especially if we have some horrible past experiences that our egos rightfully want to keep us safe from feeling and from ever happening again.

But the way to keep those bad experiences from happening again is to let your feelings surface – not by digging into the past – but by digging into the PRESENT!

In other words – investigate yourself – NOW.

See if you can relax while you’re feeling.

See if you can ACCEPT your FEELINGS.

Don’t worry about trying to “forget” him. Just make the conscious decision to not focus on him on purpose.

Right now – he’s just an experience. If you can look at it as a learning experience (Alanis Morissette has an amazing song about that – I’ll find it and post it…) – you’ll get beyond it so much faster.

And forget about forgetting about it. Just let it be a part of you that’s important in the building and revealing of who you are.

Lovely thought, to me.

It’s all about you.

Love, Rori


  1.  #1Mercedes on August 27, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    This is soooo PERFECT! This is the kind of stuff that brought me to you Rori!

    We’re terrified of the depth of terror and rage within us…and we’ll do almost ANYTHING to keep from feeling it.

    Especially if we have some horrible past experiences that our egos rightfully want to keep us safe from feeling and from ever happening again.

    But the way to keep those bad experiences from happening again is to let your feelings surface – not by digging into the past – but by digging into the PRESENT!

    Love it!

    Much Love,

  2.  #2Mercedes on August 27, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    Did you ever feel such a longing?
    A “missing” of someone you love?
    Did you ever want to reach out and touch him?
    And he’s right there?
    And you know you can’t?

    Did you ever long to hold him?
    Did you almost touch his back?
    But pull your hand away…
    Because he’s sleeping…
    And once again his back is the only thing facing you?

    Did you ever know you’re losing?
    And want so much to win?
    But you can’t even see the finish line…
    And you know…
    It must not be meant to be?

    Did you ever go for a swim…
    To wash away the tears?
    And soon you start to smile
    Because without the tears and yet with all the water…
    You can’t figure out where the hurt went?

    Did you ever start to laugh…
    Because you never before noticed how blue the water was?
    Did you ever notice the breeze
    When for so long you felt suffocated?
    Did you ever keep the smile because the pain was now so small?

    Did you ever finally turn your own back…
    And see what was behind you?
    Did you ever notice the beauty and peace you’d never seen?
    Did you ever decide not to look back again…
    And instead move forward anew?

    Did you ever fight through heartbreak…
    Only to discover perfection?

  3.  #3Daria on August 27, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    damn rori howd u get so good

  4.  #4Daria on August 27, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    ooh thanks meredes oo im crying
    i just knew it was gonna have a sad ending
    like all those other heartbreak songs

    and it didnt

    u dont know how important that is to me

  5.  #5Daria on August 27, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    ive never heard anything like that before

    i feel soo sadddd

    and glad to feel this greif feeling

  6.  #6Daria on August 27, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    i am in pain

    i see cherokee moms losing children

  7.  #7Daria on August 27, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    i love my goddess self

  8.  #8Daria on August 27, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    i feel so huge and big and spiritual and divine andimportant and all encompassing like the air

  9.  #9Daria on August 27, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    i love feeling heartbreak

    that feels scary

    i dont want to second guess myself consciously


    i trust myself

    i choose to be trustworthy

  10.  #10Daria on August 27, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    1. caught myself

    2. dont do anything

    3. feeling : interest, excitement, intrigue



    im having an experience fo thinking about my ex, i choose to not consciously think about men then i feel INSTA lonenliness


    is there a time when u dont want a man around daria?

    UMM, no

  11.  #11Daria on August 27, 2010 at 3:45 pm


  12.  #12Daria on August 27, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    wow. i judge myself for this.

    i judge myself for this

    “its impossible to be together 24 7. that doesnt work. nvs??”




    i dont want to be told i wont have what i want.

  13.  #13Diana on August 27, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Dear Rori,
    I been following you for a year now. I read everyone of your emails and I have bought a few of your programs (Modern Siren, Mr right etc). I still struggle. I am an accomplished (career wise) attractive single 38 year mom who divorced a year ago. I try to circular date but don’t have any dates at the moment. In spite I go out and smile etc. Something is still not working. But thanks to you I have learned to love myself. To get in touch with my feelings. And i feel grateful to you for that. I don’t chase guys anymore although I still have a slight tendency to fell obsessed over them. I dont sleep with guys because they have so far not offered what I deserve. Therefore, I have gone for a year without sex with a man. I have great sex with myself. Why would I give my body to a guy who does not love me and offers nothing? Thanks to your work I realize I am on a journey. A journey to discover myself and what life is about. I share your teaching with my female fiends. I love doing that. It is fun. In spite that things are not 100% working for me now and I feel lonely and yearn for love, I know it will come to me, someday. I feel beautiful, sexy, smart, magical, charming and kind. Thanks to your teachings. You are a beautiful soul and I feel grateful for coming across you. THANKS beautiful giving feminine soul. All of the blessings to you.

  14.  #14Daria on August 27, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    i choose to have a man around right now

    i choose to notice the men around me…

    there are men texting my phone

    there are probably men who left me messages on myspace

    and SURELY like almost a hundred men still waiting to be friended by me, who didnt make the “attraction” cut

    i feel bored already

    i feel stuck

    i feel curious about this stucknes — i used to judge it right here

    ok i feel ready to talk more about men now

    there are men out in the world

    who will notice me

    every man will notice me

    heck every woman will notice me too

    i am so very noticeable

    that i hide in my house and feel lonely

    i feel afriad

    i feel afraid and my body is moaning and feeling icky right now


    tnis feels BAD

    i dont like feeling this icky trauma feeling or whatever the heck these are

    they are like the lil entities lol

    i love you entities

    go into the golden light
    you are of the golden light
    see the golden light within u

    bye! you are safe! u can breathe
    you are loved

    and i am too

    all this energy



    feel golden light

    like sun


    in me

    i am the sun

    we are the sun

    i feel so amazingly energized

    oik im doing spontaneous entity clearings lol

    energy work people get paid for those

    yeah but for other people

    not for themselves

    thanks brain

    what are we doing today pinky

    whats that brain

    try and take over the world

    hey – i was gonna put down smoking ! but i consciously refuse to do that now —


    this feels great

    i love having control on judging the world and myself

    and choosing what affirms my choices with trust

    no matter what!

    for real

    no matter what!



    i really trust myself

    even if im in hugely enormously grave danger

    even if i die

    even if i live

    even if im sick

    even if im wrong

    even if im evil

    even if im sick twisted perverted

    even if im pscyho and they all say i am and they are trying to help me

    even if i eat raw people guts

    i trust myself


    felt scary

    i declared it

  15.  #15Daria on August 27, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    Diana – I feel pain reading your post. I want to support you. I feel that yearning too. thank you for speaking for my pain

  16.  #16Daria on August 27, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    those were my biggest fears of what could go wrong if i trust myself – which i do, now .


    going pscyho

    killing people

    being in danger


    what if tehyre all hovering above you, telling you youre hallucinating, and youre seing monsters and Sh88t like a scary movie.

    THEN would you trust yourself?

    YUP. even then. unconditionally from now on i Vow to Trust Myself

  17.  #17Daria on August 27, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    i feel them laughing at me

  18.  #18Daria on August 27, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    this will be over soon. this feeling of terror.

    i love me even when i feel terrified of the things i feel terrified about.

    i love my body

    i love my mind.

    i stand by me on the titanic

    (sidenote – oh gosh im so corny )

    i dont want to drown.

    i dont want drama

    right now i want to feel fed




    like new born seal puppies

    i want to feel healthy

    i want to feel alive

    i want to feel fresh

    all the way thru to the pinky center

    i want to feel oxygenized

    in the membranes
    and in teh marrow

    and all the way in between

    i want to feel happy

    i want to feel plump

    i want to feel juicy

    i want to feel full full full

    and big and happy

    i want my body to feel the opposite of what dizzy is

    which ill now call


    — second guessing.. not concisously… caught ya… haha —


    i want my body to feel connected

    i feel pulled down

    i want that mmm
    jungle jaguar feeling

    i want to feel natural like a jungle jaguar

    i want to feel naturally calibrated on healthy


    thats what im talkin about

    this is more like it

    i want computers to be naturally calibrated on healthy


    i want being alone to be naturally calibrated on happy



    im alone in the hut

    i get to play

  19.  #19mary on August 27, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    damn daria howd u get so good

  20.  #20mary on August 27, 2010 at 5:32 pm


    missed you!

  21.  #21Daria on August 27, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    Hi Mary ! Welcome back!

  22.  #22Daria on August 27, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    It feels good to read your posts to me yay!

    i missed you too

  23.  #23mary on August 27, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    ah! how’s it going?

    i laughed out loud when i read post #10 and you started numbering everything, starting with “caught myself!”

    oh, i’m still laughing! thank you so much for being SUCH a character.

  24.  #24mary on August 27, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    i have news:

    island man chose someone else.

    man in the woods got so mad about circular dating that we ended on an off note.

    old flame’s divorce was going through, so he came for a visit last week. i had to blow that candle out.

    the other guys came and went.

    and now there is only music man.

    and i’m thinking about exclusivity with him. i’m gonna to be straight up with him. not play around. not game him at all. see if he can love me through all that. see if he loves himself enough to be receive my love.

    i’ve changed my mind about some things. marriage. sex. etc.

    and i still hold these things in my hand. but more loosely.

    i want to be straightforward from now on.

    tell it like it is.

    i think this guy can handle it. we’ll see!

    i’m not gonna date guys that i don’t like. just to receive their attention and adoration. it doesn’t feel good to me when i know they’re into me and i’m not into them.

    oh! i read something about sustainability today (remember? that is MY topic…)

    check it out…

    what’s up with you?

  25.  #25Jacqueline on August 27, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    Whoa, Mary!!! First I was just so impressed with the names for the men….and your forward movement with each and every one…THEN I went to the site/link… I’m not sure we’ve talked directly before, but if you can check my blog today I interviewed a guy – Athol Kay – who talked about CD’ng as PUA’ng….this will be very interesting reading and I can forward it to some fellow sirens who’ve been asking me about cdng…..thanks!!!

    Blog link:

    I totally LOVE the commment Rori makes about giving up unhappiness is a spiritual journey up there!! AND, I read it as are you going to let it RUIN …..not run….lol….

    Take care, all,

  26.  #26Jacqueline on August 27, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    ps….assclown? OMGosh….rofl….in Supernatural last season the worst insult the angel who turned human who was back to angel could come up with was assbu***! Laughing = healing!

  27.  #27Simply Shannon on August 27, 2010 at 7:37 pm

    Mary!!! HI!!! Waving my hand furiously!!!!

    I feel insanely curious about your post. I was thinking about you the other day.

    I feel giddy. Like a kid who just saw Santa come down the chimney.

  28.  #28tinque on August 28, 2010 at 8:53 am

    Mary – I’ve missed you. Was thinking about you strongly yesterday, wanted to e-mail you, but a friend in crisis superseded. Big hugs…

  29.  #29Jacqueline on August 28, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    Hi, all! My LI is making me triggered big time!!! He’s all upset because I said Athol was sexy and articulate on the blog – heck I’ve never even met the man!!! and then he’s obsessing on there are other ways to cheat….WTH? I’ve sat home and not worked for almost a YEAR now while he was the provider!!! BUT this jealous stuff, when I’ve done absolutely nothing is a deal breaker for me, it’s why I got divorced. Need some help, asap!!!!

    I’ve never given him any reason to doubt me and I refuse to be CENSORED.

    HIS issue is he’s been cheated on before – and I don’t care, actually, no feeling message there for me. Just get over it or shut up…..

    really, yall, does that indicate I don’t care about him, or I’m just highly triggered?

    Interviews and links are btw the BEST way to market/start a blog….so I’m just doing what works.

    If he thought someone was sexy and articulate, I would NOT feel like sulking for two days and making it a huge issue….


    Any help here?

    Oh, yeah, and he’s even jealous of THIS blog….it’s like I spend all my time with “other people”???????

    arghhhhhhhh again!


  30.  #30Jacqueline on August 28, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    And he’s even jealous of the LINKS I have….like to Tinique!!!


  31.  #31Simply Shannon on August 28, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    Jacqueline, here’s what I might say in that situation:

    I feel weird. I don’t understand why you feel jealous but I secretly like that you want all of my time. I’m not cheating on but I do find other people attractive. Do you feel other people attractive? What do you think?

    It might feel good to get curious about why he feels this way. Maybe find a way to open up the conversation.

    What I’m reading in his words is that he loves you and he feels protective of your relationship. Read his message trusting that he loves you and he, like every other human on the planet, feels afraid sometimes.

    How does that feel?

  32.  #32Simply Shannon on August 28, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Maybe he feels afraid of losing you. Maybe this will be the way he starts rowing the boat more. Leave him space to do that. Lean back but open. Make sense?

    Read his defensiveness as:

    He loves me.

    He loves me.

    He really, really loves me and doesn’t want to lose me.

    What’s not to love about that!?! 🙂

  33.  #33Simply Shannon on August 28, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    You could even get sexy cute with him and say “it sounds like you want to spend more time with me. What do you think?” All said while getting up close and personal with him.

    And then say, “I enjoy my time on the blog. It refreshes me. I don’t want to give that up and I don’t want to fight with you. What do you think? What should we do?”

  34.  #34Jacqueline on August 28, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    Awww, Shannon….thanks!!! those are all so great, except for sometimes I think we will break up? in the end….and it’s like those circular dating things where we get worried about leading them on….

    and I don’t think he really really loves me, I think he’s really, really insecure.


    but thanks so much for any feedback!

  35.  #35Laughing goddess on August 28, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Ya Jaqueline. I feel agreement with SS. It sounds like he is feeling scared and wanting reassurance.

    And I imagine you maybe feel angry and want respect for your freedom of expression.

    Sometimes it’s hard for me when I am feeling triggered to have compassion for the other person but if you could tap into it you could probably diffuse the situation quickly.

  36.  #36Laughing goddess on August 28, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    “really, yall, does that indicate I don’t care about him, or I’m just highly triggered?”

    only you know for sure if you really care about him but I get the sense that you are just highly triggered right now. I’m guessing that you wouldn’t be with him if you didn’t care about him.

    Sending you love and support!

  37.  #37Laughing goddess on August 28, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    I would maybe even say something like

    “of course I feel attracted to other people sometimes. That feels normal to me but I’m choosing to be with you!”

  38.  #38Jacqueline on August 28, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    Thank you so much, LG & SS…I’m gonna jump off the whole computer and go sit in the sunroom he built and see if I can muster up some appreciation….lol….

    BUT it occured to me – what if he’s gonna start this shit because it’ll take my focus OFF the blog thing just when I’ve put all these hours and hours of work into it to sabatouge it?

    I’ve sat home for the whole last year so he could be the “provider” and it’s just not going anywhere. He is providing….but not at the level I want to be at, and I’m not going to isolate or be censored.

    I thought this would be like the least threatening thing I could do…..and now? Ka baaam!!!

    check in with you soon, thanks thanks thanks!


  39.  #39Lisa (from across the pond!) on August 28, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    Amazing writings here… amazing poem.. made me cry.. I used to lie beside him and look at his back with so much love… ugh!

    its saturday night again and I’m at home on the internet.. I had a date earlier today but it was awful, no chemistry.. the ‘boring’ guy that I went out with last week never even called me back…

    its proving very difficult to get the 3 men in rotation thing going!

    AND the ex wants to come around on Monday to swap the last of the our things.. (that’l be 6 wks since split).. feel I am ready to do that..and want my stuff back.. BUT I hope I can be strong!!!! Any tips??


  40.  #40tinque on August 28, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    Jacqueline – For what it’s worth I get red flag prickles up the back of my neck reading what transpired between you and you LI.
    Yes he may be feeling insecure, but this is not a great way to handle it.
    All the suggestions above are great.
    But my question to you would be, what do YOU want? Does he feel like your “the one”?

  41.  #41Jacqueline on August 28, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    Tinique – ummmm, probably NO, and I never told him he was….but I am faithful, and happy on a day to day basis, just getting tired of not being allowed to GROW….and so, what do you think those tingles were about? Plus this is pretty much a replay of the one and only time I got DIVORCED…same thing, guy wanted to keep me in the house – when I literally could not leave after dark – after traveling all around the WORLD on my own….I left, period.

    KS- It’s OKAY, okay okay….to just be you – I grew up in an alcoholic home and was made the “adult” when I was 4 years old….and on and on…you obviously have LOTS of growing to do….but integrate yourself, little by little…and start by loving ALL of yourself. And the two phone thing? Kind of sad but brilliant!!

    Anyway, hugs and total acceptance for anything you say……

    and walk away is arguing or whatever, you try the feeling message….you feel bad….you just stop and walk out of the room and go do somethng that feels good. Sounds easy, huh?

    So, what makes you feel good, what can you go do?

    Hugs, darlin…..


  42.  #42Daria on August 28, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    OH my god. I was just rereading the post /I wrote about I want men around all the time.

    MAybe what I want right now is to live with a man.

    That would feel FUN!!!

    omgosh that woud feel HELLA FUN!

    I feel excited

  43.  #43Daria on August 28, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    knocksoftly –

    the walk away tool is when you walk away in any form “imagined” or real .

    like leaving the room

    hanging up the phone.

    This was the first time I tried using the Rori tools.

    My ex was calling me names on the phone and I – instead of listening to him and waiting for him to finish making me feel bad – just hung up the phone.

    PS ___ it feels like youre losing EVERYTHING ___

    but after I felt a lil bit bigger

    and the amazing part is… Men come on even stronger

    he called for like an hour in a row

    its crazy

    same stuff happens when you leave phisically … instead of engage in an argument

  44.  #44Daria on August 28, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    thanks girl

  45.  #45Jacqueline on August 28, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    KS !!! You go girl, shout out to Daria, too….

    I once went to readhead and realized none of my clothes matched my hair – and even though a LOT of women complimented me….guys are suckers for blonde. Really, every single man I know said put it back – anyway, when I first did it it was like orange…but a fun orange….so I go to the Sally’s beauty supply and the gay guy there was like, well do you like it? I do….would have been fun but I was the “boss” at my job….so it was auburn for about a month.

    Whatever you do don’t cut it!!!! and make sure the base matches – like if the base is violet, you have to recolor with violet, and if the base is orange (like in golden blonde) you have to recolor with orange….

    So, how do you look NOW? with the lipstick….and feeling better….and all???

  46.  #46Jacqueline on August 28, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    PS @ all….well I explained to my guy about writing in a “style”…I’m not attracted to the guy…I’ve never even met him. But we did have a little people are attracted and he claims he’s not attracted to anyone but me? hmmmm….denial??? cuz he had a film and video group full of models when I met him???

    Whatever, cheating is not my trigger – lying is. You could cheat but you better not lie!!! I know kind of messed up….

    so anyway, he was all upset because I had how to write a profile stuff on his computer – it’s a Special Report you SELL on the web…umm that’d be my website connected to the blog one day. OMGosh, just goes to show how crossed up communication can be – I mean why would I even put that on his computer anyway????? Cuz I’m just that damn sneaky? rofl….

    So, we’ll see and Tinique, I HAD the ONE and life messed us both up….so I’ve moved on, but I’m gonna send you a link to a story I wrote about it….

    Thank you and Shannon and everyone for being here when I was gonna loose it!!

    Can not.stand. people trying to move or break my boundaries!!!

    Night all….

  47.  #47Jacqueline on August 28, 2010 at 5:12 pm

    Daria please use some of my toilet paper…..lmao……..heee I just can’t wait until you riff on there!

  48.  #48Daria on August 28, 2010 at 5:26 pm

    i just worked out! yahoo! im realizing “burning off – sugar or smoke or extra food is GOOD for me” alwasy heard it but never got it

    it truly feels good

    plus i got a workout move that feels good when im doing it

    its kinda like a womens butterfly opening stretch

  49.  #49Daria on August 28, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    jaqueline – i feel jealous, pressured and mistrustful, and curious too

  50.  #50Daria on August 28, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    oh and smug. that you want me to write

    this feels really uncomfortable to have written

    hello reallity matrix

  51.  #51mary on August 28, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    Hi Jacqueline:

    I loved the line on your blog where Athol said this:

    “But once the commitment is established of being exclusive then the rules change. If she’s a girlfriend and she dates someone else and I find out, then it’s basically over from that point. Affairs don’t have to be physical to be damaging. I don’t see the point of being with someone that cheats on you before you’re married to them. Once you’re actually married and she cheats that’s a case by case basis for the first offense, but there’s no forgiveness for cheating a second time.”

    I agree with what he’s saying here. I think it would be very harmful to me if I was having sex with a guy and he was seeing other women too.

  52.  #52mary on August 28, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    helllooooooooooooo Simply Shannon!

    Wildly waving at you, too! I’ve thought of you often as I’ve been rearranging my thoughts and making decisions based on experience. My spiritual commitments remain the same but I’m getting practical with myself and with the war that has been waging inside for oh! too long…

    so last night I talked about my feelings and what I don’t want and we had a discussion and agreed to be exclusive with each other.

    i feel excited now. and now i will no longer be The Unavailable Woman. I will test his self esteem as i make myself available for relationship.

    if he blows hot and then cold, i can walk away.


    : )

  53.  #53mary on August 28, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    helllllooooooooo Tinque!

    i’ve missed you, too!

    well, no one was more surprised than i when Old Flame came into town and started joking and jabbing and poking at me in a “friendly” (but mean) way, talking about how his ex had no self-esteem (i wonder why?) and letting me entertain him and pay for almost everything we did. of course, that was my fault but i didn’t want to deal with a confrontation there. and he also regarded me with cold, steely eyes that lacked compassion.

    he was here for five days and that was long enough to know. he’s the guy i said “i just know” about… well, i didn’t know! but now i do.

    he’s not for me. no. i don’t want to spend another day with him.

    i spent the day today with music man… but there was a red flag waving right in broad daylight, and i’m not sure how to ignore it… or deal with it… i’m just in the place where i’m acknowledging it to myself and possibly i can walk away later? not now, but later?

    hmmmmm… not sure what to do!

    i told him i felt upset about it. and he said, “i know…”

    okay. we’ll see.

    the jury is still out on him…

  54.  #54Lucy on August 28, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    Hi Mary! Welcome back. 🙂

  55.  #55Lucy on August 28, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    Wow about Old Flame!

    I feel curious about the red flag with Music Man, but don’t want to pressure you to share more than you want to.

  56.  #56mary on August 28, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    helloooooooooooo Rori!

    i haven’t read too much lately, but i really, really love what you wrote in this post.

    i think i’m going to write it on a small piece of paper and keep it in my purse.

    i’m gonna review it often, just to keep myself feeling fine about whoever i’m dating, and whatever my date decides about me…

    thank you for the post!

    it makes me feel courageous and able to withstand a setback, should that occur…

  57.  #57Lucy on August 28, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    Daria, I love that you said you want to live with a man. That’s what I want, too. (But I want to marry him first.) I want a man to be in my bed every night. I want to smile at him every day. I want him to hug me and kiss me every day.

  58.  #58mary on August 28, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    hi Lucy,

    well, basically… i was with music man where he was working, and a guy had parked in a no-parking space. so music man pulled up next to him and had a heated conversation about it. it was a much younger, cheeky guy who had parked illegally, and he made reference to me, saying “see, you’re embarrassing your wife!”

    of course i’m not the wife, but i did feel embarrassed.

    i know this is a serious red flag and i can’t overlook it.

    i still want to go forward with the relationship.

    how pitiful is that?

    oh, mary!

    now what? ??? !

  59.  #59Lucy on August 28, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    Thanks for sharing, Mary. I feel curious about why it feels like a serious red flag to you rather than just an imperfection or growth edge for him. Not having been there, of course, I’m not experiencing the full impact of the situation like you are. But… (and this is not necessarily good or bad) it sounds like my Dad. 🙂 He’s better than he used to be, but, yeah, he gets like MM in that situation — and he’s a really really good man who has been a loving husband (50+ years) and father. But — I know that trait drives my mom crazy! But she loves him like crazy too. I guess it all depends on personal dealbreakers?? What do you think?

  60.  #60Jacqueline on August 28, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    @Daria…no pressure, ‘kay…’s gotta be fun or it’s no fun!! that’s why I called it toilet paper – besides on my site I think you only get 30 lines of toilet paper….har har….don’t do it til you wanna do it, okay?!!

    @ Mary – thanks for visiting my blog and you wanna guest post?

    AND wondering – red flag cuz he calle you his wife, or cuz he got in the guy’s face? And you know, follow your feelings. I hate it when my guy calls me his wife cuz he knows darn well I’m not and don’t want to….but it’d be worse if he was inappropriate yelling and pulled me into it. Good luck working through it and in STEPPING Up your committment game!!!!

    KS – hope all is better!!!


  61.  #61Lucy on August 28, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    Just read this on a match profile:

    “THE perfect relationship for me starts out as great friends. Sounds cliche, I know, but it is nevertheless realistic and Very important.”

    I feel curious and confused about this STILL. Rori says it doesn’t work this way with men (friends first) — yet sooo many men write this type of thing on their profile. Is it just that they THINK they believe this but they really don’t????

  62.  #62Deb on August 28, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    Hello Sirens,

    I’m trying to get this text response right… feedback is welcome!

    Mr.T wrote: I guess u r pretty busy these days. I hadn’t seen much of u.

    Me: I am in NY for the wedding now. I feel sad that we haven’t seen each other… I expected more from you 🙁 I’m just giving you space… I don’t want to feel like the pursuer here

    I’ve waited 2 days since his message because I was mad when I got it since I hadn’t heard from him in a couple days.

    I feel a little confused sometimes… I want to be receptive to him when he reaches out, but sometimes my true feelings aren’t there yet so I don’t know what to do. At least I’ve stopped myself from ACTING or DOING when I’m unsure.

  63.  #63Daria on August 28, 2010 at 6:37 pm

    this video — its EFT — has really touched me to tears… and moved me to love myself in a way i had not understood before…

    its about loving our little girl… the rebel in us who causes self sabotage… shes rebelling to make sure we have a voice… and shes trying to protect us… and shes done an awesome good job

    and now shes safe and she can play… and we can make sure shes safe and play with her too

    i just never understood my little rebel so well till now.. and shes done an awesome great job of keeping me alive until now. Thank you!


  64.  #64Lucy on August 28, 2010 at 6:37 pm

    Okay, here goes…..

    For several months now I have felt scared of ending up back with my ex-h.

    I don’t want to end up with him, but sometimes I think I “should” or that it’s the way it’s “supposed” to be.

    I would love help in exploring this.

    Sometimes I feel guilty.

    He isn’t “stepping up” to claim me, even though he has said that he wants me back and that he will always be there waiting for me if it doesn’t work out with anyone else.

    (Stepping up, for him, would have to include making me feel secure that he is done with his cheating ways — and that he is ready to cherish me in a way he never did before.)

    But I realized that he couldn’t step up even if he wanted to, because I have been completely closed to the idea.

    So, a few days ago, I decided to open my heart to him — to the possibility of him stepping up — even though I don’t really want him to. I don’t want to be with him!!! Please no!!!!

    But this nagging feeling won’t let me go, so I decided that the best thing to do would be to give him space to show his true colors one way or the other.

    I feel so scared!!!

    So, anyway, today he called about our son going down to his mom’s farm to work on our son’s car with him — and then he added, “You can come too, if you want.”

    I laughed and said, “What would I do there?”

    He laughed too and said, “Just hang out, I guess. And then you and R could go out to dinner with mom and me.”

    Well, since I had just decided to unzip my heart, I decided to go. (My son didn’t know how to get there anyway and mapquest gave him obnoxious directions….)

    My ex-h taught my son and me how to wax and buff the car, and it was kinda fun.

    I sat and talked with his mom while he and R rotated the tires and changed the oil.

    He told me he had decided he would trade cars with me because he knew I liked driving his new car the other week while he was working on my old dodge caravan (I was using his car the week I had my date with WH, btw.) So now I have a nice new car. Wow. (It’s not new new, but it’s a lot newer than my old mini-van — and a lot more appealing too.)

    We went out for dinner — the four of us — and that was nice. His mom paid for all of us (she insisted).

    Back at the farm, he picked corn for me and R to take home — and he husked it and cut off the bad parts.

    While driving home with my son, I felt a strong urge to share these thoughts and feelings here on the blog and I feel hopeful that I will get some help working through this.

    I don’t want to end up with him.

    I feel sad.

    I felt much better that day with WH than I EVER felt with ex-h.

    But ex-h is in front of me, and WH is not.


  65.  #65Daria on August 28, 2010 at 6:39 pm

    Jaqueline – you are so funny… har har… lol!

    i feel “disarmed” now I feel amused and relieved that I had felt triggered

    this site is really good practice for real life, i am a jitter bunny i guess with opening up to people…?
    i doono

  66.  #66Lucy on August 28, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    I feel relieved that I finally shared this.

  67.  #67Simply Shannon on August 28, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    Lucy. Holy sh*t. #68. Me too.

    WTH? My mind screams NO but I wonder sometimes if it would feel different now. WTH? NOOOOO! I just talked to my girlfriend about this Thursday night. OH MY GOODNESS. I cannot believe you just wrote this.

    I keep getting this message.

    NOOOOOO. Ok God. I’m saying NO. Yes, I’m putting my foot down.

    Ahhhhh! I feel completely freaked out!

  68.  #68Simply Shannon on August 28, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    Lucy, I actually feel angry right now. At you. Not really but what the hell!?! Seriously, I’m going to have a panic attack.

    No. I can say no to what I don’t want. I don’t want XH!

    I mean, we flirt now. It’s kind of funny. I see him differently than I did while we were married. He just got a job this week after TWO years of not working (pretty much since our separation).

    Oh. My. Goodness.

    ****FREAKED OUT HERE****

    Why would this idea even be bouncing around my head? I think I’m just afraid. Afraid and jumping back to what I know. He’s right in front of my face but only because of our kids.

    I’m going to have a drink. I don’t give a crap if it numbs me out.


  69.  #69Simply Shannon on August 28, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    I’m sorry Lucy. I doubt you expected this reaction. I would like to explore this with you too. But I want to walk away at the moment.

    Crap. Now I feel bad because I don’t want you to shut down about this. I want to hear your thoughts. Can you process this some, and I’ll chat with you in a bit?

    I’m sorry.

    Yes, drink time.

  70.  #70Lucy on August 28, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    Oh, Shannon, I’m so sorry this is making you feel bad.

    I totally understand your feeling freaked out. I feel freaked out too, and I would feel especially freaked out if I hadn’t yet written it here and someone ELSE on here wrote it. I would feel angry at them, too!

    The really weird thing is, while I was writing it, you actually came to my mind and I had the thought “Shannon will know what I’m talking about.” Freaky!!! And I would not feel surprised if this paragraph causes you to feel even more angry at me.

    It feels really really scary to me, having these thoughts and fears about ex-h. It feels good to know someone (you) understands how bad it feels — even though I feel bad that you feel bad about my writing it.

    It feels awful.

    Maybe I wrote it hoping that Sirens will tell me exactly what you just told yourself: “I can say NO to what I don’t want.”

    I feel trusting that God is here with us — you and me — and understands our fear and anger and sadness — and will help us through this.

    Hugs and love <3

  71.  #71Lucy on August 28, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    p.s. My kids have “accused” me (it FEELS like accusation) of flirting with him, too. 🙁

  72.  #72Lucy on August 28, 2010 at 7:36 pm

    Shannon, I feel hopeful that now that this is out in the open for both of us, mega healing can take place…..??? This may be a huge turning point….???

    Something that feels this powerful… has to shift something…..

    Yeah, I’ll admit that here’s what I’m hoping: This has been a mental/emotional/belief/vibe BLOCK, and once it is cleared, I will NOT be back with my ex-h and I will HAVE the relationship I want with someone ELSE.

  73.  #73Simply Shannon on August 28, 2010 at 7:55 pm

    Ok. I had a drink (and a smoke) and had a talk with God.

    This is fear talking. Hello fear. No, I do not want to go backwards. Going back would look like settling. Going back would feel weak to me. I’m only considering it because there are no other men in front of me. Mr. Fab Kisser is kind of around but he’s laming out on me. Definitely not stepping up in a meaningful way. He got scared too. I can understand him pulling away. Not really but if he goes, he goes. I’m making peace with it.

    And then there’s XH. He’s a man who shows up on my doorstep every other day, and he loves my kids. I trust him with their lives every day he’s with them. So in a weird way, I love him. I love him for what he is to them. Not to me.

    Could I love him in “that way” again? Maybe. But nothing about him has changed. I have. Not him. He’s still the same ol’ XH. I KNOW this. And yet now I see him differently because I’m recognizing how f’d up *I* am. I spent so much time putting him down for his sh*t that I never dealt with mine. And now I see.

    It does feel very weird to be getting this message. And it feels right that there is some sort of message here. Something to unlock so that I can move on. Maybe it’s erasing that last bit of “safety net” so I get on out there again. That feels same with Mr. Fab Kisser too. My safety net(s).

    I feel really tired of this crap. I feel tired of thinking of myself. (Lucy, I’m really sorry for flipping your post to be about me.) I want to get it in my head that this is just about the journey. Getting a man and getting married isn’t going to magically make my junk get better. It just won’t. It’s still work once I get married. Not work, like labor, but the frustration I feel now about not having a man will transfer over to feeling frustrated with this other human being who doesn’t always do what I want him to do.

    I’m just writing stream of consciousness right now. Putting out my thoughts directly on toilet paper here.

    Swoosh! Okay, thoughts down. More to ponder. Definitely praying about this one again and again.

    Lucy, tell me how you feel about your XH. Forget all my business and tell me your feelings. I’ll hold space for you. I’m not angry at you at all. Maybe just stunned that you and I would be in the same head space. And angry that I don’t know what it means. Ok? I promise I’m not angry at you.

  74.  #74Daria on August 28, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    my body is wonderful to have sex with

    I look like the perpetually pregnant woman

    my skin is golden

    I look like unabashed unadulterated disaster

    no matter what there is no taking away that:

    my skin glows

    and I am squirting pheromones all around

  75.  #75Daria on August 28, 2010 at 8:11 pm

    Lol! The Sirens’ husbands (ex) are showing up because of the feminine vibe!


  76.  #76Turtle Girl on August 28, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    Post #2

    Freak-ing brilliant-a woman after my own heart-xxoo
    You are right on. Just how I feel. Just how it is. Just perfect.

  77.  #77Lucy on August 28, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    Shannon, thank you. For being you. So much of what you wrote resonates with me.

    “Going back would look like settling.” — Yes, and it FEELS like settling, too. In fact, I “settled” the FIRST time I married him!!!

    “I’m only considering it because there are no other men in front of me.” — I’ve thought that a lot, too, but I have also had a much scarier thought — the reverse: There are no men in front of me because I’m supposed to be with HIM. HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And, the reason the men I like (TN man, WH) don’t like me back is because God doesn’t want me to have them — God wants me to be with ex-h. Ohhhh, that feels SO SAD!!!!!

    “So in a weird way, I love him.” — My ex-h has not been a very good father to our kids, but he’s still their father, and a human being, and because of that I do feel love for him in a certain way.

    “I spent so much time putting him down for his sh*t that I never dealt with mine. And now I see.” — Yes. 🙁

    “It’s still work once I get married. Not work, like labor, but the frustration I feel now about not having a man will transfer over to feeling frustrated with this other human being who doesn’t always do what I want him to do.” — I said that same thing to Erika a couple days ago when we were talking about hidden motivations for maintaining the status quo — fear of success, etc. Yeah, basically fear of intimacy.

  78.  #78Turtle Girl on August 28, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    Oh and Mercedes-thank you. I needed this tonight.
    You are a beautiful goddess. Kindred spirit. xxoo

  79.  #79Turtle Girl on August 28, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    You and SS are such beautiful sirens/goddesses.

    The whole friends first thing? I don’t know. The man I have taken as a lover is such a “friend” I mean I just really get on with him like we are buddies, but yet I am also having him as a lover. It is weird in the fact that I have never had this kind of relationship with a man. It is always romantic/lover OR friends/platonic.
    never friends and lovers. Is that what we are looking for? Friends and lovers/ mates? It is very strange.

  80.  #80Daria on August 28, 2010 at 8:25 pm

    Lucy – I hear a belief of:

    I’M not gonna get what I want. I’m doomed to always get the short end of the stick. UGH. especially when it counts.

    I have this belief also.

    Lets eradicate it together… Thank you herb! go be compost soil now!

  81.  #81Simply Shannon on August 28, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    Okay. Stop the madness. I’ve thought the same thing too. That no other men have shown up because God doesn’t want them to. (I really don’t like that you’re in my head! 😉 )

    But then I’ve been thinking that maybe, just maybe, there’s not really “the one” person God puts in our life. I’m beginning to doubt this whole theory about “the one”. I think God wants us to pick a person who values what we value, who makes us feel good, who loves us the best way they can (imperfectly of course but it feels GOOD to us).

    “The one” feels magic fairy dust unbelievable. Maybe it’s more about picking a person and choosing to make it work. Two imperfect people saying I choose YOU to make this journey with.

    I don’t want to choose someone like my XH who I know to be unreliable and a non-row-the-boat-boy. I know this. Yes he just started going to church (which freaked me out) and yes he just got a job, but that doesn’t make him value what I value. I know this. I know this. I know this.

    I feel afraid saying that, like God just said “pick someone already”. But I don’t really believe that. I think maybe he’s putting the right people in my life right now to guide me down the path. And one day I’ll pick one that I want to stay on the path with me.

    Ok, I feel more relaxed about this now. I feel okay. If God really wants this, then XH can man up and start rowing. Until then, it’s a non-starter.

    And that’s what I have to say about that. 🙂

    How does that feel Lucy? I’m going to stop talking now and let you process here. I actually want you to confront my thinking here and break it apart if you can. Since we’re both of the same faith, I know you know how I’m struggling. Same as I know how you’re struggling. Signs like this are NOT a coincidence.

    God is funny. I’ve said that more than once today actually. And I bet he thinks I am funny as hell. Haha Big Guy. Laugh it up buttercup. It’s a good thing I love you so much, because some of this funny stuff really gets on my nerves. 🙂

  82.  #82Lucy on August 28, 2010 at 8:35 pm

    Thank you, Turtle Girl. <3

    It feels interesting — what you wrote about friends, lovers. On one hand, what you describe seems like it would fall into the category of "friends with benefits" — but on the other hand, I sure feel like what I really WANT is a friend and a lover. Like that Keith Urban song, "I'm In."

    "So if you need a lover and a friend,
    Baby, I'm in. I'm in."

    And he's not singing about fwb — he's singing about true love.

  83.  #83Daria on August 28, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    Shannon –

    I agree… and I think the deep spiritual THE O?NE stuff is what the journey is After making commitment to a man… Any man… so we better choose one to feel good

    then the feelings of : YOU Sun ME Moon

    YOU Adam ME Eve

    come in

    when im already getting closer to my man…



  84.  #84Daria on August 28, 2010 at 8:42 pm

    I’m not gonna be ok if someone doesn’t call me tonight, says my voice

    — that doesn’t feel good —

    i choose to be ok if someone doesn’t call me tonight or any night

    i am ok

    i choose to know i am ok

    i choose to know i am good

    i choose to FEEL good

    i choose to do C?OnSTRUCTIVE things for myself

    i choose to show love for myself with construction

    and acts of service

    i choose ot feel open and loving and powerful

    i choose to feel at ease

    i choose to feel full of rest and clear eyed

    i choose to feel absorbant and rich

    Absorbent and RICH

  85.  #85Lucy on August 28, 2010 at 9:02 pm

    Daria, yes: “I hear a belief of: I’M not gonna get what I want. I’m doomed to always get the short end of the stick. UGH. especially when it counts.”

    I have been conscious of that belief for about a year now, but I can’t seem to get rid of it.

    I feel very interested in your use of the phrase “short end of the stick” ….! Here’s why…

    Just a couple weeks ago, when my parents were visiting from out-of-state, my mom triggered a memory and I shared it with her: “Oh! I always hated when you made decisions about us kids by having us draw straws. (For example, who would get the last ice cream sandwich when we all wanted it.) I felt so horrible waiting in the dining room while you went into the kitchen and cut the straws, and then called us in, and stood there with your fist wrapped around four straws. I always felt so anxious and sad and unseen — because I knew that I always got the losing straw, and always would….”

    And I felt so surprised that my mother didn’t get defensive (like she usually does, but maybe it is because *I* have changed) — instead, she said, surprisingly gently and wisely, “Sometimes when we’re children and something happens one or two times that feels really bad…. the memory gets distorted and it feels like it happened that way many more times than it actually did. I don’t think you got the losing straw any more than any of the other kids did.”

    I still feel surprised remembering her gentleness.

    Maybe I really DON’T always get the short end of the stick.

    Maybe I really am gonna get what I want.

    I feel curious…..

  86.  #86Simply Shannon on August 28, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    Lucy, I remember talking to my parents about my memories of getting spankings when I was little. My memory of that made them seem pretty frequent. My mom and dad both confirmed that it was like once or twice my whole life. I can still remember how scared I felt about my dad counting “1” and putting his hand on his belt. I never made it past “1”.

    Alright, going to bed now. Early morning for me.

    Sweet dreams. Love, Shannon

  87.  #87Lucy on August 28, 2010 at 9:27 pm


    “That no other men have shown up because God doesn’t want them to.”

    When I read that, even though I had just said the same thing myself, I felt sick.

    I feel sick remembering distorted views of God that I grew up with — that I had to do everything just right or God would be mad at me and withhold blessings from me.

    I feel angry thinking about God controlling the universe and not giving me what I want.

    I feel frustrated thinking “God wants what is best for us” — because it seems like God has a weird concept sometimes of “what is best for us.”

    Maybe I don’t really trust God to know and do what is best for me. Maybe my parents didn’t always know and do what was best for me (they didn’t) and so I think God is the same way. He’s gonna mess it up just like my parents did sometimes. Some of their mistakes really hurt me. A lot. I was an “unwed mother” and they wouldn’t let me stay at home because it would ruin their “Christian witness.” So I was sent away to a group home — secretly — and none of their friends or community ever knew. Shame. Guilt. Rejection. And it was shortly after I placed my baby for adoption that I met and married my ex-h — I was so vulnerable and needy and grieving that I ignored all the warning signs with him.

    I don’t trust God.

    I want to trust God.

    LG said somewhere the other day something about trusting that God won’t let a man break your heart. But God DID let a man break my heart — my ex-h broke my heart. And so it feels like something God would do — want me to go back to him.

    It feels too good to be true that God would want me to be with a man who made me feel peaceful, joyful, free, happy, and safe like WH did on that single date.

    It feels weird saying all this stuff about God. It feels kindergartenerish.

  88.  #88Lucy on August 28, 2010 at 9:31 pm

    Goodnight, Shannon. Sweet dreams. <3

  89.  #89Lucy on August 28, 2010 at 10:40 pm

    i just realized i don’t need to feel bad or guilty if I don’t go back to xh – when i have thought about marrying someone else i have felt sorry for xh – and like a bad person – because then he permanently doesn’t get to have me and that feels not nice to do to a man – but it just hit me that even tho he says he wants me and i think he really does kinda like me and love me – the TRUTH is he is content and happy without me! He likes living alone. I don’t. He will be fine if i marry someone else. he might feel

  90.  #90Lucy on August 28, 2010 at 10:47 pm

    a little sad but then he will adjust and maybe even be happy for me. maybe he really is happier alone and it is just me holding on. maybe i can let go now. maybe i have a choice. maybe God wants me to choose. maybe God is smiling and happy about me choosing what man to be with. maybe God will take care of xh and i don’t have to feel responsible for him and his happiness and his life and future.

  91.  #91AmberS on August 29, 2010 at 12:28 am

    Hey Lucy,

    I feel sad and confused. I feel how scary it is to trust god. I know we don’t share the same beliefs, but I wanted to tell you this resonates with me. My parents used god as their excuse to be awful. So I hated them, and I hated god.

    And the other day I was feeling like it was time to let go of some junky limiting negative beliefs like not being good enough and not ever getting what I wanted. And I have so much changing in me right now that I feel like I’m morphing into a whole new person.

    Two things happened-

    1) I was releasing limiting negative beliefs I learned from my parents and WHOA. Some of those were about god. How crazy funny that feels! That I have limiting negative beliefs about GOD!!! Just so comical to me.

    2) I was acknowledging my positive happy feeling beliefs about life and I realized that I believe that when I am working toward my own highest purpose, everything I do lines up with that, so everything I do brings everyone else closer to their own highest purpose. WHOA. So I was talking with my daughter (19) about this today, because she is considering becoming vegetarian, and feeling guilt about certain foods. So here’s where I was blown away.

    What if that chicken’s highest purpose was to become an apple? But it couldn’t get there unless you ate it?

    Bear with me here, I know that’s a leap, but what if your highest purpose here was to be the happiest, healthiest, most gorgeously alive and vibrant Lucy possible? So by living your life and experiencing all those painful lessons and all of the rejection and bs and the heartbreak gave you the ability to see things clearly and make good choices and grow into your most perfect imperfect self. And all those people who were those lessons to you, they were learning from you, too. And maybe they got it and grew or maybe they didn’t, but you did, and are.

    And I can totally grasp this being what god wants for his children… to be the most beautiful, vibrant and alive people they can be.

    Even my f’d up parents used the ‘god is love’ line…

    What if that’s true?

  92.  #92AmberS on August 29, 2010 at 12:49 am

    I feel bad now. I feel stupid angry with me that I keep writing about myself here. I feel embarrassed that my posts take up an entire page.

    I feel panic. I feel the joy seeping away.

    Lucy- I am sorry I went on a rant up there. I feel so excited that maybe I can use words to share a feeling, but then there are so many words. I feel tired.

    But I believe Lucy is meant to be happy and vibrantly alive. And I am meant to be happy and vibrantly alive.

    I feel sure about this.

  93.  #93Daria on August 29, 2010 at 12:54 am

    Amber – i feel sad seeing you apologize for yourself. every single word of yours, especially about yourself, is precious to all, and helpful, and worthy of love

  94.  #94Rosalie on August 29, 2010 at 5:51 am

    Dear Sirens,

    I have a HUUUGE request to you! Maybe somebody can help me, or knows a friend who can help.

    I would like to buy this book:


    If any of you owns this book, or somebody you know, and you don’t use it anymore/ don’t need it, I would like to buy from you! Or pay for the shipping at least, if you don’t want to get anything for it. I wouldn’t like to take advantage. Any bargain is okay. Maybe if you have it in ebook, because you bought it, it’s great too.

    I live in Eastern Europe. So if there is a Europen Siren here, it would be the best. Amazon. com doesn’t ship to here! I tried on Ebay,and they have it only in the USA! It’s weird!

    I can pay through VISA. Please leave a message to me a here with an email address, so I can contact you. Or write me here please:

    If you know good international booksellers in Europe where I could directly, it would be help as well!

    GREAT THANK YOU-S!!!! :)))) I would really like to read this book for half a year!!!

  95.  #95mary on August 29, 2010 at 7:54 am

    i’m just reading through here…

    shannon and lucy:

    i feel scared to make a decision when i have the view that an infinite, all-knowing, all-seeing entity has a “right decision” in mind and is invested in my ability to find it. the fear of not being able to find it can really get me spooked.

    ever played pictionary? you’re trying to describe a word by only drawing pictures and waving your hands around, but not having verbal communication?

    well, try playing pictionary without being there in the room. now it’s telepathic pictionary. first you’re trying to get people to even know you’re there. then you’re trying to get them to know what you’re talking about without talking to them or being seen by them.

    so you manipulate circumstances and hope they’ll know why? and they’ll make the “right decision?”

    or you place thoughts in their minds and hope they’ll put them together in the way that you want?

    or you write them a book that covers everything that could ever happen, and hope that they make the “right decisions?”

    if it’s up to me to find what is in the mind of the entity who’s “ways are higher than my ways, and who’s thoughts are higher than my thoughts…???” without hearing or seeing or using my five senses, i feel scared.

    what if there is not a right decision?

    what if this entity simply wants to live through me? exchange places with me? interact with others here on earth? spread love around?

    what if i am a surrendered person, open to guidance, and i have confidence to use my five senses to make decisions? and i make them, and see what happens, and alter them accordingly? just like everyone else?

    would that be so irreverent?

    it seems to me that peace in the heart is the only right decision.

    and i’m free to make the choices that seem most right to me… at the time… and to feel confident with these choices… and that there is no head in the clouds shaking NO or nodding YES… that there is only love coming through. and that love boosts my confidence…

  96.  #96Lucy on August 29, 2010 at 8:26 am

    Thanks Mary. For me, finding the “right decision” is not really the issue. I feel comfortable making decisions without agonizing over “God’s will.” The issue is about God “closing doors” – e.g., other men not showing up for us – thus *eliminating* our choices – because God wants us to be with the ex. Not sure if that’s what’s going on, but that’s the problem for me. If WH wanted to explore a relationship with me, I would have no problem making the decision to do so. 🙂 Right now, however, I don’t have that

  97.  #97Lucy on August 29, 2010 at 8:30 am

    option. My view of God is similar to the one you described in the second part of your post, not the first. <3

  98.  #98Lucy on August 29, 2010 at 8:37 am

    Hi Amber. I feel bad that u feel bad! I appreciate your comments. I agree wholeheartedly that God is love and that God wants us to be happy and vibrantly alive. 🙂

  99.  #99girl on August 29, 2010 at 9:18 am

    Ladies, I have something to share. I feel self conscious about jumping in the conversation with news that doesn’t affect anyone but me, but I’m still doing it…here it is…

    D got a big promotion and will have to move up to Boston (we’re in Texas). He wants me to go with him, and he assures me that he will take care of everything, and I don’t even have to work until I figure something out that will be a good fit. Now that I consider my days are numbered, I suddenly feel so aware of how beautiful my life is and how much I love it. I want it to last forever! But if I stay, I miss out on him. Which I am going to do for a while, when he’s getting established. If I miss him and it feels right, then I will make plans to move. For now, I’m just feeling through this. I feel proud of him and more and more in love with him. I feel sad to think of leaving my family. I feel sad to think of losing him. I feel sad to think of losing my apartment and my downtown lifestyle – I feel like a princess. I dread living in a “hard” place, which is my impression of Boston. I feel deep regret when I consider the possibility of him turning down the promotion. But mostly I feel so much abundance, that I don’t think I could feel lack cause there is just so much to be grateful for.

  100.  #100Lucy on August 29, 2010 at 9:29 am

    Girl, thanks for sharing your news. I feel happy for you.

    You touched on something that I have recently realized may be holding me back from having the relationship I want — that is, there is a part of me that doesn’t want my life to drastically change. There are many things I like about my life just the way it is now, and if I fall in love and marry — especially if it’s someone not in my immediate area — so many things will change.

    I feel glad that you are sharing your experience with that very issue and I feel hopeful that as you continue to share it will help all of us find our way. <3

  101.  #101Lucy on August 29, 2010 at 9:29 am

    And you thought it didn’t affect anyone but you…. 🙂

  102.  #102Daria on August 29, 2010 at 10:23 am

    It means getting your head and thoughts off of other people, off of your past or future, and planted firmly in the present – where you allow your senses, your body and your heart to take over. My ebook will help you with this – it’s the Listening at Level 2 Tool.

    — this is really helpful to me. I feel a jump of understanding on me…

    Listening at level 2 is like sinking into the moment

    to sink into the moment, i can listen at level 2 to the world around me, like it is telling and doing the most interesting thing to me

    i feel intrigued… i feel glad… i feel pleased

    yes… a new tool i can implement, the “right” way lol a way that works.

    whats that lol about – oh yeah the way that feels good, like a click.. i never thought about good that way, like a click

    something new to tweak

    feeling good, that click “right” feeling

    yes it’s meant to be that way

    yes it feel comforting, reassuring,

    someone’s been here before? im being guided? im following?

    im trusting the signs because of trusting myself?

    i feel sure?

    i feel MEaningful?

    i feel in tune

    i feel part of

    i feel “connected”

    i feel unalone

    i feel important competent

    i feel “with other people. part of something bigger. i feel approved of. i feel curious. i feel secret and special.

  103.  #103Daria on August 29, 2010 at 10:24 am

    funny that i feel special when i following… the secret labyrinth path that was laid out ahead of me, for me

    then what do i do?

    nothing new just follow the path

    how does this make me feel special

    it feels safe

    i feel good

    i love my rebel

    i love my lost eyed, ghostly princess

  104.  #104Daria on August 29, 2010 at 10:29 am

    2020: farah says:
    Hi Rori, I need to clarify something in my mind and I think you are the woman who can help. I was dating a guy who wanted to get married after a few months of dating. Then he started withdrawing, needless to say I didn’t understand why and I became frustrated with the whole thing. Marriage plans suddenly turned into ‘getting to know each other more’ plans. This is all after the point that I was looking for a ring, we were looking for a house together and I had started slowly packking! So I told him that my plans had not changed and I was still looking for marriage and not just living together , we have been together for 2 yrs, how much more does he have to know me? Anyway after that I told him that I was looking for marriage and I would start dating other guys if he has now changed his mind. Since then he has disappeared from the face of eath! Nothing! I won’tcontact him. But am struggling to make sense of this. I realise that this may have looked like i was leaning forward, but i’m not sure. Is this leaning forward? I mean I didn’t ask him to marry me first, I just didn’t want to go backward. Was that really leaning forward? thanks for your advice.

    Sunday, 29 August 2010 @ 2:51am

    2021: Rori Raye says:
    farah, Welcome, and I’m so sorry this is happening to you…I’m going to make a totally wild guess here, and that is that he’s met another woman. After 2 years – you absolutely MUST contact him!!! And you must be prepared with speeches that do not blame or attack, but ask…if there’s someone else, what you need to know, what he thinks, what he wants….I wish you luck and advise you to immediately start Circular Dating very , very slowly…you have much to practice, and perhaps he truly wasn’t right for you. Love, Rori

  105.  #105Daria on August 29, 2010 at 10:31 am

    2019: Amy M says:
    Hi Rori,
    I am confuse and anger, I have been dating my BF for more than a year now. In the beginning he was just like a puppy dog who pursued me . He was very thoughtful and very generous. He was treating me very well. Until 5 months ago I started to notice that we’re not spending time together anymore. He will just come have dinner with me and call me almost everyday for 10 to 20 mins. I tried to understand that he have a lot of pressure at work and needs to spent more time at work. There are times he will complained about work and how tired he is. He owned this business and he needs to be involved 100%….but then I felt neglected and taken for granted. I tried to give him more space and tried not to complain most of the time….Last July I went on vacation with my girlfriend to cancun for a week. I had so much fun and activities I end up forgotting to call him. When I got back he offered to pick me up from the airport. He asked me why I didn’t return his call, he said he was really worried and upset but he’s over it. I apologized and I thought things are ok. We had nice lunch the following day with my friends and after lunch he said he needs to go back to work. He told me he loves me and kiss me….. And that was the last time I heard from him… It’s been 6 weeks now and I’m very upset and anger with him. I didn’t even bothered to call him on his birthday 2 weeks ago because I am still hurting. It’s more than a months now with no contact shall I considered it , were done? what if he calls what will I tell him? part of me wants to give up this realtionship I felt tired but the other part of me wants to save this relationship from falling apart. I don’t know what to do. Please I need your advise.

    2022: Rori Raye says:
    Amy – Welcome, and I’m so sorry that this is happening – and I can only imagine how painful it is – and yet – he was not your ideal relationship…You had so much more fun with your girlfriend! You have nothing to lose by contacting him, but you will not get anything out of it more than confirming the relationship is over – no matter what he says. Truly – you must wonder if he is well, and if you’d like to confirm that in a written note and simply let him know you feel sad and that you’re moving on…do so. If inside, you’d rather just let it all go – do that. In either case…there’s nothing here for you. Circular Date, please…and heal. Amy – I hesitate to say this because it brings false hope and goes agaist what I teach about forgetting about a man unless he’s in front of you – but things have a way of working out, and old boyfriends have a way of showing up again. I hope for you that if he does you’ll be in a great, healed place and able to see him in the context of the life you want – and perhaps you’ll already be married to someone else by then! Love, Rori

    Sunday, 29 August 2010 @ 10:24am

  106.  #106Sherry on August 29, 2010 at 10:35 am

    Lucy & SS –

    I went through the same thoughts/feelings you two are having. It was my decision to divorce. I knew at the time and still feel it was the most healthy thing for me and children. That does not make it any easier to go through. I’m sure you have both felt the same. When you have children you are tied to them for life. My parents were extremely bitter after thier divorce and that made it 100 times more difficult for us kids. I vowed I would not be that way.

    I found that as I grew, as I started forgiving myself, I unconsciously started forgiving him too. The more I loved myself, the more I was able to love him. I have been divorced for 14 years and it has been a long journey for me. But one I would not trade for anything!

    I went through the stage you are both describing. Seeing my part in it all made me think that maybe his part wasn’t so bad. I hadn’t found Rori at this point, nor was I dating so I did not have those factors to deal with. Even as I started seeing him in a better light, all I could remember was the feeling of yuckiness I had inside me when we were together. As a matter of fact, when I told him I was filing for divorce I told him I just needed to feel inner peace again. I have found that!!

    This is what I believe: I do not believe God punishes us. I believe that he is the one person who loves us unconditionally. He wants us to love him in return and does not expect us to be perfect. He also has given us free will to do what we may with our lives. Yes, I believe he has a plan for all of us, but no, I don’t believe he would block you meeting a great guy because he wanted you to be with your ex. That would be taking your free will away.

    You are both growing and this current situation is testament to that! My divorce left me with scars I never dreamed I had. There were the obvious ones, but also so many buried deep down. This is a time for you to heal and release… To stop blaming, stop letting the hurt and disappointment affect you, and work things out within yourself. Unfortunately, the only way I was able to do that was by having interactions with my ex. Those times helped me more than any other thing I could do. I have never entertained the thought of getting back with him. We bring out the worst in each other when we are any thing but exes. But, I know he was an important part of my past, we had 2 beautiful kids together and I feel that was our purpose. It is only now, that I have finally resolved all of my issues with him, that I feel I am ready to date and find someone who is my future.

  107.  #107Lucy on August 29, 2010 at 10:35 am

    Listen to the world . . . in this moment and the next moment and the next . . . Keep listening to the world. . .

    I like it, Daria!

  108.  #108Jacqueline on August 29, 2010 at 10:36 am

    Lucy – ummmmm….my first reaction was to remember and now I’m asking you to remember…your post in the care when you, the kids and exhus went somewhere, what like 3 weeks ago? You were FREAKING out….NV everywhere, the harshest stuff you’ve ever written about who could/would love you if even your family didn’t and he turned the kids against you.

    I totally agree no one shows up until we makes space for them, but I also remember that garden guy got pushed off the shelf because he said he’d cheated…what 5 weeks ago?

    So, either you’ve grown amazingly tolerant, or you’re ignoring some very huge warning signs you were talking about for you????

    What do you think?

    And I second Amber…and hey, like I told a friend, okay go for it, sometimes it takes us getting our hearts squashed a couple of times.
    Not saying it would go down like that, but feeling a HUGE level of concern for you – hope that’s what you hear, here.


  109.  #109Jacqueline on August 29, 2010 at 10:37 am

    @ Daria – thanks so much for eft clip…and YOU….and what’s going on with 19 year old???

  110.  #110Jacqueline on August 29, 2010 at 10:41 am

    @Amber….you have a deep fabulous voice -inner and outer!!! When you speak, worlds turn, I love what you’ve said on my blog, and the distinctions you’ve made.

    I feel really bad to see you say something brilliant then turn red and apologize; even if you were spouting nonsense I wouldn’t want that.

    But more importantly you’re not!!!!! and I want you to grow into the belief that you are worth the world listening to, giving attention to, and admiring!!!

    How does that feel to you,


  111.  #111Lucy on August 29, 2010 at 10:43 am

    Sherry, thank you thank you thank you. I am crying and feel such a sense of awe — Wow — it’s like what Daria just wrote about following someone in the labyrinth who knows the way — wow. I will write more about this later but right now I just feel overcome with emotion. <3

  112.  #112Daria on August 29, 2010 at 10:47 am

    19 is on a trip. i feel jealous. 19 is more popular than me on my blog. i feel surprised.

    i feel jealous of 19

    i feel resentful and tightened and alone all of a sudden mumbling to myself

    i feel angry and tight

    i love my anger and tightness

    i love my resentment


    it feels so good to have resentment

    like carrying a pet rock everywhere

    NO ONE will take my rock!!!

    NO ONE!!!!

    there there precious
    there there

    they wont take you away from me

    you are my precious yesss
    my precious rockk

    my resentmenttt


    i love gloating ang deliciously savoring this resentment

    omg i feel so SAFE with this resentment!


    i feel joyful!

    i feel SAFE with resentment, and tightened up and huddled with it to my heart


    that is the safest position

    i feel really safe with it now

    and warm and good

    and protected

    i love my resentment

    thank u

  113.  #113Daria on August 29, 2010 at 10:48 am

    Resentment is my pet bunny.

    no one has asked so much about a man as about 19. or is that my impression. i feel scared. i feel unworhty. i feel insecure. i feel jealous…

  114.  #114Sherry on August 29, 2010 at 10:53 am

    Lucy – sending out big hugs to you!! You have this.. you just don’t realize it yet 🙂

  115.  #115TxMsPretty on August 29, 2010 at 11:01 am

    This is absolutely WONDERFUL!
    Amy, My ex dumped me a year ago and i fell into a massive depression. I fell into ANOTHER one earlier this month and made myself sick and broke. (Broke because if your sick and depressed you wont get up and work)
    Everything is in your head. I have learned to talk to myself positively and realize i am in control of my own happiness and life. I recently HAD to contact my ex because the warranty on my computer was under his name and i needed it. After he transferred it, i thanked him , he did not respond and i felt completely FINE.
    Dont be mad if someone doesnt act the way YOU want them to act. You HAVE to keep it moving. Make yourself pretty. Change things around. MOVE. Date. Listen to reconnect your relationship by RORI.

    I love this blog!

  116.  #116Jacqueline on August 29, 2010 at 11:27 am

    Daria….well you named 19? and you were pretty “high” when you came back from there….lol…to me he’s no more signifcant than your pet rock….I was really asking about YOU, darlin.

    And yeah, I thought about it and can see how riffing somewhere else would feel scary, and I still invite you to do it! to move out of your comfort zone, in a way. And I’m glad we ended it on humor….and want to leave it that way. But my dearest, your brilliance should shine everywhere you want to go – and you know I am a fan…when you talk it just shuts. up.! the voices inside my head and I go into yours….well when you do the riffing thing anyway. It’s all good, and hey that silly BOY should be absolutely adoring your A**!!! today right now this minute!!


    Hi, TMP!! and Sherry….

  117.  #117Lucy on August 29, 2010 at 11:28 am

    I was listening to the world at level two and I heard the rose bush say, “Come cut off the dead roses.”

    I feel like it was not just about the rose bush.

    I am going outside with my garden sheers to cut them off.

  118.  #118Jacqueline on August 29, 2010 at 11:32 am

    PS….hereinafter he shall be ONLY #19 to me….laughing…..when I said you named him I mean he’s the one you described in most detail…but now….he’s just a number!!! until you say otherwise!

  119.  #119Daria on August 29, 2010 at 11:44 am

    Lucy – listening at level 2 got me tending to the plants too. it’s takinga bit of practice to listen at level 2 to stuff other than a man!

    it feels so good and comfortable doing it with a man, now i am practicing it with the dishes, and the plants… and i washed my whole sink without meaning to, and watered the backyard and indoor plants, and then pruned my indoor plant…

    this is cool stuff

  120.  #120Lucy on August 29, 2010 at 11:54 am

    I feel happy.

    I had thought ALL the roses were dead and gone for the season — I walk past that rose bush every day and all I saw was dry brown crumpled things that used to be roses — and I hadn’t gotten around to cutting them off — I just didn’t care….

    But when I cut off all the dead ones, to my surprise there were three beautiful fragrant roses in full bloom, and one pretty bud! I hadn’t even seen them before because there were so many dead ones hiding them.

    I put my nose up close and breathed in the smell of the biggest smiling rose.

    One of them was pushed up against the garage door, and it said to me, “Cut me. See my long stem? I will look lovely in a vase on your table, and I will fill your kitchen with my lovely scent and bring you joy.”

    So I cut it and filled a vase with pure clear water, and the rose said it was happy to be there with me. . .

    Daria, what a wonderful idea you had to listen to the world! <3

  121.  #121AmberS on August 29, 2010 at 11:58 am


    When you talked about him he felt like a real person to me. Like there was some consideration and respect between you. I heard a challenge to his beliefs and I felt like you described a pause there where you two allowed the difference to exist, and like it warranted more thought on his part. And I felt really glow-y with you feeling and allowing yourself to feel and allowing yourself to want what you want without giving anything up when he saw it differently. I read your post and felt like he was a new level of interacting. Not to dis your other CDs, not better, but new.

  122.  #122Daria on August 29, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    Thanks Lucy –

    im beginning to live my day how i want to live it.

    like rasta man said. my life is meditation.

    im feeling deep secret and in rhythm tune and balance with the passing of activities and sun movements and earth slow twists

    everyday in silence there is the celebration

    goddess life. i am reverence. i am worshiped by all that is and byme.. and i humble, dance with time with smell, with step, with tingle in the back of throat, with cool breath

  123.  #123Daria on August 29, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    Thanks AmberS – i have certainly learned a lot from being around him that i am applying in my daily life now.


    i think about him constantly, right now its enriching my day practice of being, floating, grinding my foot on the ground

  124.  #124AmberS on August 29, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Maybe closer to what you want? I’m feeling like a pull to him and having to resist that pull because there are feelings there?

    I almost just typed ‘maybe I’m projecting’ but then I realized that if I am you’ll just ignore me and that feels really good. Like you’re so you that if I’m off base you’ll be okay with it. Wow that feels really good. I wish I felt that with my family…

  125.  #125AmberS on August 29, 2010 at 12:08 pm


    Wow. This gorgeous! I’m gonna copy this and add it to my affirmation box!

  126.  #126Daria on August 29, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    i feel drawn to him. i feel warmed by memories of him. i feel intrigued… i feel hand held

    i feel supported

    i feel terrified and afraid of stumbling

    i feel confused

    i feel sad

    i feel doubt

    i feel loss and numbness, thumping of the pulse now in the hurt part

  127.  #127Lucy on August 29, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Oh my oh my oh my!

    WH just emailed me. But all he wrote was what his nephew’s name is and that he will be teaching at the highschool. I felt bad that he didn’t write more.

    But I remembered Daria said that any time a man contacts us it is an invitation to share our feelings.

    So I did. And now my heart is racing. Soon I will know the truth. I feel scared.

    I wrote:

    I wonder if my son will have him for a class….

    I feel so drawn to you and I feel insecure and frustrated about that. I feel really vulnerable writing this. What do you think?


    I feel terrified.

  128.  #128Lucy on August 29, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Oh, I should have written “I feel terrified” to HIM!

  129.  #129dorothea on August 29, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    wow Lucy…I feel downright impressed by the bravery in your response to him. I feel so impressed that you were brave enough to show him your feelings.

    feelin inspired now

  130.  #130Jacqueline on August 29, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    I feel ignored after expressing my serious concern for Lucy’s new take on ex….and no response….if nothing else I’d like to understand how these things all coverge, what is the emotional movement/progress or is it just the in the now feeling of it all? Cuz it all feels very changed now that another man is in it…..Curious….

  131.  #131Jacqueline on August 29, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    @ Dorothea – hey! Posted on your site about your word choice – that I’m prob. gonna misspell…..Pralaapa….crazy talk?!!! grinning…so how did that come about?

    raving under the full moon,

  132.  #132dorothea on August 29, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    Jacqueline, thanks for posting comments! My name isn’t actually Dorothea. That’s an alias I use here so that when my name gets googled, i don’t show up baring my soul here.

    I think sanskrit is neat and i’m interested in it, plus i wanted to have a blog, so i try to use sanskrit words and concepts as the framework for the blog’s content.

  133.  #133Jacqueline on August 29, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    D/mysterious one….really like it! gonna look up sanskrit words and try and intuit the deeper ground of being behind them soon….

    off to do real life,

    Hugs to all –


  134.  #134Lucy on August 29, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    Jacqueline, I’m sorry you felt ignored — not intentional — will write to you later….

  135.  #135BarbinOz on August 29, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    I wrote that email to MM last night about being disappointed about the friends thing and within HOURS he has replied, not much to say, granted as he already told me he is not a good typist:

    Be patient,get a cat,until…….

    I would normally reply back with some smart a** comment about not liking pussies (blush) what do you think I should say to this, don’t know how I can get any feelings into this reply.

    BTW none of the CD’ers have phoned me yet, despite all 3 having my mobile phone number, maybe they are just tooooo damned scared of the sexy vibrant Goddess I am LOL!!

    Hurry up with the first DVD Rory, it got posted on Friday by UPS hopefully it will be here in the next few days…….

  136.  #136BarbinOz on August 29, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Hi Lucy

    Did you use any “I feel” words to WH? Funny but I feel really strange saying this as I usually say “I think”….mmm…..

  137.  #137Lucy on August 29, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    Oh help!! WH wrote back and I feel such an intense mixture of feelings. Here it is:

    Hi Lucy:

    I sense you are frustrated with me and I am sorry for that. I had a great time with you at the beach a few weeks ago. We are great together but I know there are things that are not perfect between our “Match” areas that would make us not happy in the long run. Specifically the fact that you do not drink at all is a problem for me. In my marriage Robin and I started out drinking socially together and half-way through our marriage she decided too stop completely and that became a big issue. I am not an alcoholic but I do enjoy my wine and drinking socially with friends.
    On a lesser level my favorite foods are shellfish and seafood.
    Both these issues I hate raising because I know they are not your fault and I feel crappy bringing them up, but add that to the fact that I am so recently divorced and you are still married I felt like if I was to pursue you romantically anymore it would be wrong because I could tell you really liked me and I am attracted to you physically and personality but it’s just I can’t see a long-term future for us at the moment so it would be wrong for me to keep after you.
    I hope you understand that any pullback you feel is because I think you are a great person and I don’t want to hurt you.


    Wow. I feel stunned and surprised that he said all that. I feel GREAT about a lot of what he said. I feel sad about the overall conclusion. I feel so amazed that one of the “stories” I had told myself was actually true! — that it was because of my shellfish allergy — I can’t even kiss someone right after they eat shellfish — and I had thought that would be a lot to sacrifice for someone who loves shellfish. I feel laughter about it. I also feel sad and a little angry because he’s saying he likes shellfish better than he likes me. Lol. That also feels funny to me in a truly amusing way. (Brenda, did I mention to you on Friday that I wondered if my allergy was part of the problem?)

    Anyway, for those who don’t know — we discussed this on here before — I had to stay legally married to my ex when I got cancer because I needed his health insurance, and still do.

    I feel happy and grateful that he was so honest. (I assume it was all honest — what do you Sirens think? – Can I safely assume he was honest or not???)

    Oh, but I also feel so sad and disappointed!

    My emotions are all over the place.

    I feel amazed at how powerful that simple little feeling message was that I wrote to him (that some of you helped me compose) — it resulted in him spilling all that!

    I don’t know what to do or say now. I need to spend some time with my feelings first, I suppose.

    I value and welcome any input from all of you. <3

  138.  #138BarbinOz on August 29, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    Hugs Lucy, I don’t have any answers but I do feel that WH is a decent,honest man…….thats all for now…..take care and pamper yourself today x

  139.  #139Lucy on August 29, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    Thanks, Barb.

    Jacqueline, I think maybe if you look back at everything I wrote on this thread today and yesterday, as well as what others wrote to me and my responses to them — you will hopefully see what has been going on here for me and not be as confused.

  140.  #140Lucy on August 29, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    I feel weird about the drinking issue. Why does it matter if the other person drinks when he is drinking? Can any of you social drinkers explain this to me? Thanks.

  141.  #141Sherry on August 29, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    Lucy I am not a big drinker. My father was an alcoholic and I have always been afraid of his genes. I have had dates tell me they feel bad drinking around me if I don’t drink because they feel like I am silently judging them. It is nothing I have said or done – I personally took it as their issue! Mybe that helps?

  142.  #142Jacqueline on August 29, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    @ Lucy….thanks for writing…I think that I do get some of your situation, I just really hated that nite with the NV screaming at you and bunched that in with “ex”….I’ve never thought things like that…..I mean I have thought things that make me bad or wrong but not that awful to myself, and so it really made me feel bad that you were in that situation. Yet, you easily seem to move on, so I can just assume it is part of you that doesn’t bother you and you just feel what you feel and go on? It’s a learning thing to me – and like looking into someone else’s head.

    You attract men easily…..and they respect you enough to reply to you. That is cool – and they have “reasons” why they aren’t it…whether they are valid or true or whatever, and WH sounds very sincere – it’s that thing Rori says men do where they judge, rank and place you and do it quickly. So, you know that whole thing was a version of it’s not you it’s me….and you can take it at face value or you can see it as a reflection of you’re really not ready….lots of ways to take that, imo. But it is a big compliment to you that you attract some high quality men.

    And it’s interesting that his “thing” is drinking….another guy fresh out of a divorce with triggers, to me…unless you inadvertently implied drinking was an issue or wrong or bad?….so again, these fresh out of divorce guys have issues, or that’s what I found.

    I enjoy vicariously internet dating with you, btw…..that’s why I’m invested in it????

    Take care and best of all things to you….enjoy the rose!


  143.  #143Jacqueline on August 29, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    Barb in Oz – how did that make you feel? It would totally have pi***d me off!! Wth???? so your cat is like so unable to use the litter box you can’t talk on the phone?!!! wow….

    Good for you for getting out there, sorry they aren’t calling – one of Rori’s tools is date yourself, like dress up just go somewhere and notice men noticing you. Stop, smile and look at him for 5 seconds (longer than usual….) and then go back to whatever you were doing. See if he approaches you, let him speak first and answer back with a feeling messge….like “today feels so relaxed for me,” there are scripts for that.

    Sorry I haven’t been a lot of help to you – the blog thing took hours! – but my best recommendation is to read every single back post category, starting with Mr. Right and Power and Self Esteem….it helped me even more than the program I ordered.

    Happy day and thanks for being here!


  144.  #144Melb(a) Lynne on August 29, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    re guys not getting back to you… on dating site/s? (not sure which one you on?), I find good cuz don’t have to pay anything, as long as the guy contacts/ emails you ie they pay for the email.. anyway, after a long time (years) on & off the site I’ve noticed that sometimes they get back to you quickly & sometimes they take ages…
    It seems usually to be always about them & what they’re up to… nothing to do with me… & I’ve found ‘leaning back’ ie doing nothing (maybe the occasional prod)… really is the best… everyone on their own journey there & everyone seems to have a different “idea” about what the “pace” of contacting should be… For what it’s worth… 🙂

    I haven’t read all the posts re WH, but in regard to his above email.. imo the shellfish thing (that seems superficial… yeah does he like shellfish more than you?… I didn’t take to that…) However, in regard to the alcohol.. I am a social drinker & for, (I’m not exactly sure of the reason… I’ll think/feel around it!! & get back to you…) to have as a partner in life someone who doesn’t drink at all… I’d find that ‘tricky’ ‘difficult’ ‘uncomfortable’…. (I’ll try uncovering My reasons behind that…)
    So, for WH I can understand that however much he may be into you & enjoy you etc etc… he’d prefer to have ‘alcohol drinking’ as one of the ‘must have’s’ in a relationship…(especially in regard to his ex not drinking… obviously alot of ‘feelings’ for him about that situation that unfolded for him)… Having read myself writing that (alcohol a must have for relship!! wtf!!!), I can see how ‘shallow’ it may/must sound (!!).. but I’ll uncover some reasons/motivations (good therapy for me)… & see if that may help you also…
    Like the others said, his honesty is to be applauded and if the reasons, to you, end up seeming superficial, better to know that NOW about him, than later… take care, Lynne

  145.  #145dorothea on August 29, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    I feel judgmental toward WH. I know you asked me not to judge but I cant help it. To be more attached to feeling comfortable drinking alcohol and being able to eat shellfish freely than to a wonderful woman? I don’t like this one bit.

    My LI cooks without dairy and doesn’t buy too much dairy for his house because he knows I can’t eat it. I smoke pot and he doesn’t (once in a blue moon), and he doesn’t make me feel like a weirdo about it. Same if he is drinking and I am not…he is completely comfortable doing what makes him feel good in my presence and doesn’t make me responsible for his ability to feel good about his choices.

    I am glad WH revealed himself along these lines to make room for more men in your life who aren’t hungup on this stuff, because I know from personal experience they are out there. So I hope you don’t feel too discouraged. I think it’s wonderful that you go out with these men and don’t turn to cocktails. It shows such confidence and stability and healthiness. It feels like an awesome yummy vibe just hearing about it.

    To be fair, the contentious issue for me and LI is cigarette smoking. We make each other feel bad for smoking, or not smoking, when the other is not doing the same thing at that point in life.

  146.  #146dorothea on August 29, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    I feel respect for WH because it feels good to deal with men who are straightforward about what their deal is.

    i feel simultaneous respect for the honesty and judgment for the contents of the honesty.

  147.  #147dorothea on August 29, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    judgment makes it “easier” to take NO for an answer sometimes. WH-type guys say no to choosing a woman over their habits or what they believe they need to feel comfortable with their habits. If that were me, I would feel rejected, or passed over for something else. Rejection feels yucky. It feels insecure and nauseating and i feel my blood boiling and turning into an anger, like HOW DARE YOU MAKE ME FEEL THIS WAY.


  148.  #148Renee on August 29, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    I feel so confused! I’ve been spending a lot of time with cougar man and today he dragged me along to lunch with his parents! Ugh! Why did I agree to go? Because I started falling for him last night, that’s why. Darned sex bonding chemicals!

    Now I’m starting to feel needy and want to lean forward and ask him to come over tonight…why do I feel the need to do that? And our whole relationship until this point has been totally based on his pursuing me and my leaning back totally cause I didn’t care that much one way or another.

    He’s a car salesman, for Pete’s sake. Yes, I’m judging him for his profession and he is the sales manager and has plans to open his own dealership some day, but it still feels uncomfortable to say “I’m dating a car dealer”…

    And now, of course, he’s really pressuring me to be exclusive with him and I told him to give me a week to think about it…I specifically said a week because I wanted to see what Indy guy’s deal was after he got done with the big wedding he was in this weekend. I am obviously becoming attached to the outcome and have expectations and I don’t know how to deal with those things in Rori Raye fashion.

    I also feel anxious because in the past, once I became more interested, that’s when the guy would do the “cut and run” and this is triggering my abandonement issues. I’m going to try to go write to a guy who’s been writing me on eHarmony to get my mind off things…not much of a solution, I guess, but I don’t know what else to do.

  149.  #149AmberS on August 29, 2010 at 4:55 pm


    Thank you for being. And thank you for saying nice things about me and to me. I feel so blushing and grinning and shy when I get a gold star! I’m serious though.

    I love how this blog is teaching me every day. I’m discovering that when I find myself repeating something over and over – HERE – it becomes noticeable to me. And if I’m hearing NV I can work through them, but also, maybe there’s a message for me from me as well. Like, maybe, ‘don’t post after 1:00 am’ because I’m not completely awake! Or last night’s msg which was ‘go back to using your journal’. And I’m feeling excited by that.

    And also- apologizing makes me feel ick, like I’m approval seeking. I shouldn’t care if my posts take up a whole page, but for whatever reason I feel like I’m disrespecting the other sirens when my posts go so long. Well, I just wondered, is this me being small, trying to ‘fit in’? Time to journal!

  150.  #150AmberS on August 29, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    151- Dorothea

    I can TOTALLY relate. Totally.

    And I have often been the sour grapes fox and dissected people when I feel hurt. Making them smaller made me feel safer.

  151.  #151Renee on August 29, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    Lucy — I’m glad to know that you heard from WH and got some closure on the issue. I also wanted to share that as a social drinker, having a partner who doesn’t drink at all would make me feel uncomfortable…I guess there is somewhat of an assumption that the other person would be silently sitting in judgement of me. And it sounds like this is one of his “trigger” issues, so he probably made up his mind right away as soon as he found out you didn’t drink, but was enjoying your company so much that he let the date continue despite his judgement.

  152.  #152Lizzie on August 29, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    Hellooooo sirens! I missed you so much!!! I have returned from vacation – I have read a few of the threads. Gee I go away, and are you sirens ever busy!!! I will post “what I did on my summer vacation….” soon.

  153.  #153Daria on August 29, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    i worked out! again!

    i used a hypnosis thingy earlier to imagine myself working out, and i was imagining a totally diff workout…

    but then i just found myself doing this one, grinning from ear to ear – that was the idea of the hypnosis, for me, to be happy while doing it –

    and ooooh it felt so good

    its called Ladybugs from T-tapp… an amazing lady who built a whole rehabilitative workout…

    i HEARD my body talking to me, like ohhh, we haven’t been paid attention to in sooo long… the little muscles

    ohhh and earlier i heard the plants talking.. .At will.. for the first time ever

    And earlier i went to Thor – i mean neighbor’s house – and practiced being Freya

    very deep quiet silent practice

    i love being Freya because her posture is always such that i feel sexy and powerful

  154.  #154Daria on August 29, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    then i cooked myself a meal…

    i was missing vegetables so i was getting my vegetbale nutrition thru smoking… doubt me but i am telling the truth it was feeding me …

    and today i got out from the back of the fridge some celery, some frozen eggplant chunks, and some garlic

    and put it in olive oil in the oven


    with feta cheese

    then cuz of the workout i boiled 2 eggs

    and made roti wheat bread straight in the pan on the stove

    yum triple yum

    i love the new me

    i have a new normal and this is it

    this is the life i want to live!

    omg i just did EFT on that.!!

    haha my magic is starting to get really strong and fast!


  155.  #155Lucy on August 29, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    Thank you all so much for your feedback! It is all really really helpful!

    Dorothea, I feel good about the way you expressed your feelings and the judging issue. I feel respected (okay, that’s not really a feeling, but it’s the way I feel anyway. 🙂 )

    Hearing the perspective of social drinker Sirens around the drinking issue feels good too.

    I feel surprisingly good. I feel a little afraid that I will be hit with sadness and grief later.

    I shared WH’s email with TN man, and I would like to share his response here. I know many of you have said that men give crappy dating advice — and I am not necessarily going to do what TN man advised –but I just want to share his words. They felt good to hear — made me smile — I feel “believed in” by him (just like I do by so many of you!) And I feel so much love for him — not romantically, but as a person.

    Here it is:

    I think you should write him and say that a) you aren’t really married and b) as long as he doesn’t eat shellfish while you are on a date that is cool and c) you don’t mind him drinking at all, and can enjoy being with him and drinking virgin drinks

    Also, let him know that you have learned not to worry about the future and to enjoy things the way they are in the now. So if he thinks it would be fun to go out again, go out again, and not worry about down the road. You have no expectations, and won’t be hurt either way.


    🙂 He’s so cute.

  156.  #156Daria on August 29, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    Lucy – that is cute. it is also respectful as in taking what the guy said at face value.

    i would consider actually writing that to wh

  157.  #157Daria on August 29, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    i recently used my guy friends suggestion…

    “ima woman with feelings, not your business partner!”

    to send to my cd… my guy friend is Really good actually at both listening and advice… it feels shocking and surprising


    ive spent almost everyday with him the past 2 weeks

    but today im at home, and his phone is off

  158.  #158Daria on August 29, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    it feels so wordless like the ocean to work with the goddess

  159.  #159Daria on August 29, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    do i NEED 19 man?

    i feel afraid tht without him my new normal, my ability to FEel energy will go and fade

    i trust myself tho

    im not about that

    im about myself for myself

    just a babystep

    if i lose it

    and i want it

    it will come back

    stronger and stronger

  160.  #160Daria on August 29, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    i have never been so in my body

  161.  #161Daria on August 29, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    so aware so magical so powerful

    i can now feel the power center is not in the mind

  162.  #162Daria on August 29, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    i can now understand it i get it and i can feel lit too


    its like discovering im really a Harely Davidosn

  163.  #163Daria on August 29, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    i have an amazing body

    my body is the goddess

    i am the celestial perfection

    of centuries and thousands

    of women before me

    i am woman

    here now

    i live the Goddess

    I am me

    i am perfect

    what they try to be

    i am born

    out of seashells and flowers

    spit out like pearl in an oyster bed

    im the most beautiful thing on earth

    in heaven an d in everywhere

    there ever was

    i am super galsactic black hole

    of love

  164.  #164Daria on August 29, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    oooh i am really good. im very impressed by me right now. yeah.. i rock. i rock.

  165.  #165Daria on August 29, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    wooo hooooo

    i am alive!!!!

  166.  #166Daria on August 29, 2010 at 6:20 pm

    yay! i feel yall over here in jungle galactico

    i got in touch wit yall…

    this is crazy

    im talking to random people on a computer…

    liek we’re meeting each otehr out of the bushes

    — In my head we all live in Avatar world… well i do—-

  167.  #167Daria on August 29, 2010 at 6:28 pm

    i had to really really, coach myself and hold msylef back on this im conversation and speak in feeling messages

    i was sooo resisting them

    like hes gonna think im a weirdo etc

    but its like the only thing that keeps people hypnotized

  168.  #168Stephanie on August 29, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    Beginning the process of “living through” my break-up today….. I’ve been “dying” in an uncertain relationship for several months.

    During my “strong” moments I know that I have done the right thing as there have been too many deal breakers that I’ve ignored up to this point. My weak moments have always sent myself running back. I am determined to not do so this time.

    I know what I want and what I deserve. If I was to continue trying to work on the relationship, I would be settling for something less. End the end – I realize he’s not the one.

    This is a wonderful “post” for me to read – and re-read for the days, weeks, etc… ahead.

  169.  #169AmberS on August 29, 2010 at 8:03 pm


    I feel good reading how strong you are.

  170.  #170dorothea on August 29, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    lucy, tn man’s suggestion isn’t half bad. here is my stab at translating it into siren speak. this is kinda what rori says in the “don’t throw yourself at his feet” post from a while back.

    ‘Hi WH, it feels so clear and light knowing where you are coming from…i would feel comfortable as long as you didn’t eat seafood when I’m with you, and sippin my virgin drinks with alcohol drinkers can feel really fun for me…I agree 100 percent that if you’re not interested in taking me out due to the two issues you named, that we absolutely should not date, plus i am really only into seeing men who are interested me…if you decide otherwise in the future, it might feel really good to hear from you and see you again, so i’ll see how i feel if i’m not seeing anyone.’

  171.  #171Brenda on August 29, 2010 at 8:34 pm


    Thank you for sharing. I think he sounds extremely sincere. What did you say back? I liked TN Man’s advice. Is the insurance still an issue? Can you finalize the divorce. That really would be an issue to me if I were a man.

    How are you feeling? I am glad at least you finally know why. I think drinking is a buddy activity where you both get loose and it changes the dynamics…I wouldn’t rule out a person on that tho.

    Your story about roses was very poetic and beautiful…you could turn it into a poem!


  172.  #172dorothea on August 29, 2010 at 8:41 pm

    I feel so grateful for the belief and attitude overhaul i brought on myself about getting high on either alcohol or pot this year. i no longer feel the compulsion to consume what everyone else is consuming, and i no longer feel guilty or weird for not engaging.

    i mean, i work to legalize pot, but i don’t smoke all day every day. i get a lot of crap from supporters who want to get me high and i turn them down because i don’t feel like it. sometimes people are REALLY identified with the substances they consume.

    i feel so grateful to be seeing a guy who doesn’t judge me for drinking, for not drinking, for smoking, for not smoking, for dieting, for not dieting, for abstaining from dairy, for saying f*ck it and eating cheesecake, for deciding for a week that i just don’t feel like eating meat…. when i’m around he makes a decent effort to mirror my preferences because it makes it easier to feed and entertain me if we’re on the same page, but at the same time if he has the desire to live his life differently than i am choosing to in the moment, he feels comfortable and confident and trusted enough to just do what he wants and not be anxious or make me feel anxious


    i am in love.

  173.  #173Daria on August 29, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    I really like dorothea’s advice. Keep that for reuse

  174.  #174Rima on August 29, 2010 at 11:45 pm

    thanks ladies,, you all make me feel so fresh and energetic and loving to me…i want so share with you too but later

    much love,

  175.  #175BarbinOz on August 30, 2010 at 2:35 am

    Lucy #144

    I am a social drinker and have never really thought about this question before…..mmmm it wouldn’t bother me too much if they were a non drinker UNLESS I felt they were judging me. Did you somehow convey that you were anti drinking? And he did say his ex wife had given up drinking and it became a big issue between them, maybe he drinks a lot more than he is saying……

    Jacqueline #147

    No I didn’t feel p***ed off at MM, I actually laughed ‘cos this guy has with my unknowingness (then) turned HIMSELF into being the prize, he has no idea yet that I am taking that ownership back now to where it rightfully belongs, to ME, I AM THE GODDAMN prize not him LOL!! He can go right back to where he was at the beginning, running after me!! And it is all my own doing that HE thinks he is the prize…….yes I have a LOT of learning to do ladies as this pattern has repeated itself more times than I care to recall. I have been sooo blind!!!

    I have been doing the “dating myself” thing too Jacqueline and it has made a difference in how I feel about myself, also I look in the mirror and do some self esteem talk too. I don’t know about the growing your hair longer thing though, I think that’s OK when you are younger but not many older women can pull that look off.

    Lynne #148

    I am on Plenty Of Fish, mainly because it’s free!! I was on RSVP about 5 years ago and didn’t have much luck so thought I would give POF a whirl. Yes I see what you mean about their agenda, well we all have jobs, lives etc……and I am looking for the man that is running over hot coals to get a date with me, not ho hum, too busy to fit you in types. One did email on Saturday afternoon, wanted to meet for a bite to eat that very same night, asked me to drive to a midway point, but I told him I had a prior engagement, I didn’t tell him it was reading all these blogs on here!! Isn’t the man supposed to come TO you??

  176.  #176BarbinOz on August 30, 2010 at 2:40 am

    p.s. Just another passing thought/feeling I am able to kind of “observe” what is going on with these guys without getting caught up in the whys and wherefores, it’s like none of it really matters because HE is on his way, swimming towards me………maybe like those men that jumped overboard from their ships to make it to the sirens on the island :)))

  177.  #177Melb(a) Lynne on August 30, 2010 at 3:14 am

    BarbinOz, I’ll give Plenty of Fish a whirl… too…. Sounds good!!
    What I was meaning re the ‘guys’ ‘doing their own thing’ and to ‘not appear to be racing to me’ has not, in my (very great!! i’ve met about 70 guys I’d say…) experience had any impact/effect on whether they’re KEEN on me… eg CD2 had contacted me in 2005.. then we lost contact… I’d seen him on rsvp on & off for a while & wondered… Anyway January this year I emailled him (I’ve only bought Stamps a couple times… sometimes I want to have some control… but also I want to not keep spending money!!)… he replied.. a couple of emails back & forth with me suggesting ‘Coffee sometime?” & him not responding to that…
    Well, I ‘leant back’ & he emailled me a couple months (!!!) later.. Still no response to “coffee?”… Finally in July.. he emails me out of the blue, & asks for my ph number… he’s just moved house & lost it!!!… A week later I email him with it And He Calls Me a few days later (!!!)…
    After we met.. he was Very Keen & we’ve had 4 ‘meetings/dates’ where I’ve actually ‘backed off’ from his keenness… He’s Very Keen, wants a relationship with me… (I’m taking it slow now, I don’t want to be ‘in a relationship’ w him, I just want to ‘see how it goes’… he’s not ‘that keen’ on that…).
    Anyway my point is…. you Never Know what they’re up to, their situation, & ‘apparent disinterest’ (even though I’ve got a great photo lol!!) & ‘slowness’ to contact Does Not Mean that when they meet You /ie or Me… they won’t be Totally Infatuated!!! 🙂
    Anyway.. see how it goes 🙂 Good Luck 🙂

  178.  #178Melb(a) Lynne on August 30, 2010 at 3:37 am

    I just put forward my feelings on WH’s email where he states that: ‘I know there are things that are not perfect b/w our match areas that would make US Not Happy in the Long Run….specifically, the fact that you do not drink at all is a problem for me’…
    plus his ex’s ‘non-drinking became a big issue’… & ‘cant’ see a long-term future’…
    To me, I feel he’s saying that it doesn’t matter Who you are, but the Fact of being with a Non Drinker is just Something He Doesn’t Want…
    I don’t feel it’s to do with the fact of you drinking whatever non-alcoholic cocktail or whatever.. when you’re with him (& ‘allowing’ him to drink)… it’s what he’s seen can occur when living with a non-drinker… I’d guess he’s had a lot of judgement about his drinking & finds it simpler to not have the possibility of that happening again…
    However he chooses to deal with that/his issue is how he wants to deal with it… & he’s stated that…
    I suppose I may be perceived as negative… but it’s just my take on what he’s said in his email… who knows who’s ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ about his intent..

  179.  #179Renee on August 30, 2010 at 6:04 am

    Well, cougar man’s parents liked me…that’s both good and bad, I suppose. I mean, it’s always better to be like than not liked, (and they couldn’t believe I was actually older than him…they said I didn’t look a day over 30, lol) but it kind of throws a kink into my plan of just seeing him for a while as long as it was fun. That and the fact that I think I’m started to develop feelings for him.

    The confusing thing is, though, that I don’t know whether its actually him I like or just the idea of being in a relationship with someone who treats me well (for the first time in a long time)…is there a difference? Anyone have any insights?

  180.  #180Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 6:35 am


    I have some additional thoughts…Christian Carter and Rori both talk about presenting your best self to a man. You had told me about borrowing your ex’s car, and that in combination with still being married could have sent major red flags to him that you might get back together.

    I used to have the philosophy that when I meet a man, I would just let it all hang out. Then if he rejects me, it’s early on, not after I am deeply invested and in love with him. I have learned the value of showing my best self and letting the potential issues take care of themselves as we go along.

    I don’t know your plans to divorce or how many years you have been separated from your husband (?). But if you do plan to divorce, and it’s a done deal (I did read your ponderings about this recently, and releasing yourself from false guilt), I would avoid telling a man on your first date that you are married.

    Of course, the shell fish and the not drinking you couldn’t avoid. Maybe he feels ill-at-ease thinking he would have to change to accommodate you there.

    How do you feel about that?

  181.  #181Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 6:39 am

    Hi Renee!

    If you don’t know if you like him or just being treated well, I guess that indicates you are not in love with him. Probably the only way to know for sure would be a time apart. Real feelings have a way of emerging when a couple is apart. It will make or break a relationship.

    I want my cougar man, Ryan, back! We were texting last night and he was so sweet! It felt good. He has a gentle side of him that I cherish, more gentle than most men. I know, I know. But the mean side is not HIM…it’s the schizophrenia. I know, I know! I would only take him back if he got free of that. I love my Ry Guy!

  182.  #182Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 6:50 am

    Bill is back today after being out sick Friday. He seems as casual as can be, just another coworker. Maybe I am just overanalyzing. I missed him and now he is acting like there’s no brewing attraction between us.

  183.  #183Simply Shannon on August 30, 2010 at 6:58 am

    I feel stunned by the revelations on this thread. Wow. I feel in awe.

    Mary: Telepathic Pictionary? LOL! I LOVE that!! I also believe God wants to live through us and experience the world with us as love. Thank you!

    Lucy, I feel a kinship with you and totally love watching you process all this. I feel selfish because you’re doing the work and I’m just saying “wow. I get it now.” LOL! And WH! Wow, what a simple explanation from a man. The man thing I “heard” was it’s not really about you. It was just some stuff that didn’t match up with his values. Yes, it feels kind of bad that he wouldn’t give up shellfish for another human being but I feel amused that we would suggest he should sacrifice something. How would it feel to wish HE could have everything he wants in the person he loves? Isn’t that what we wish for ourselves? This to me is a huge sign that you are getting closer and closer to having everything that YOU want. I mean, these are minor things. These are actually deal breakers for you. Ya know? You wouldn’t date someone who ate shellfish if it’s gonna kill you, right? He eats shellfish so deal breaker. I know you want this guy to be the one but he laid his cards out on the table for you by being completely honest. Some of it may be petty but you get to see that it’s not about YOU. It’s just his stuff and what he likes. I feel relieved reading it and happy he shared that with you. Boys are just as weird as we are!

    Sherry: Thank you! And yes, I have done lots of forgiveness with my XH. I feel lots better about things. And actually writing stuff out here makes me realize it’s not really him I want. It’s just good ol’ comfort in our history (and our kids) that gives him a few good marks in his favor. HOWEVER, just like you and your XH, we are also better as friends and co-parents than we are in a relationship.

  184.  #184dorothea on August 30, 2010 at 7:01 am

    Renee, cougar man reminds me of LI so much when we were just in lover mode, and i didn’t want to move it into serious mode.

    He wanted me to meet his parents so bad, and i refused. Until one day he just brought her around to a function we were both at. she invited me out to lunch that day and i declined. HAH. This was over a year ago

    now i actually want them to like me and they kind of don’t. oops. in the future i will not worry about what meeting parents “means.” I will just do it. They’re just people. I put these folks on a pedestal of sorts and now I am paying the price BIG TIME.

  185.  #185Renee on August 30, 2010 at 7:01 am

    Hi Brenda — Thanks for your reply.

    I really wish I knew what was going on…it started this weekend for me…Saturday night, when we were getting physical, we were obviously “making love” not just having sex…lots of deep, soulful eye gazing and that kind of thing. It was during this that he mentioned (again) that he wanted me to be with just him and I asked for a little more time…but later, he played one of his favorite songs which is a Christian rock song about feeling scared and confused and I started crying…he didn’t see it at first and then when he did he asked me what was wrong…at first, I just shook my head because I knew if I started talking I would just cry more…I told him I was just confused and he hugged me and told me it would be ok but he said he was kind of glad to see me upset like that because that meant I was getting attached, and maybe he’s right…I don’t know.

    Up until this weekend, when we’d make plans to get together, I was kind of take it or leave it…if he ended up having to work late or something, I was like, “Well, if you’re too tired to get together tonight, that’s ok” and I meant it — I knew he’d be around the next night if we didn’t get together tonight, so I just thought, no big deal, you know? But Sunday, I found myself wanting to spend more time with him and kind of missing him when he had to go take care of some business…but I still don’t know whether it’s really him I miss or just that I enjoy having someone…

    He’s just so different from whom I pictured myself with…he drives a truck, has a tattoo, sells cars and never finished college. I know all these are judgements, but I just never saw myself with someone who had these attributes. He did, however, sell my old suv for $200 more than I wanted for it on Saturday in 1.5 hours and he does sweet things for me, which make me feel valued and special, but that’s where the confusion comes in…there are other men who would have treated me well whom I rejected because I wasn’t feeling ‘it’ for them, but for some reason, I kept seeing this guy and I’m not sure why…he’s not as polished as I am or as most of the guys I’ve dated, he rarely works out and bites his nails — yuck!

    I’ve been reading Evan Mark Katz and he talks a lot about not settling, per se, but accepting the type of person who’s a realistic match for you…being with this guy seems somewhat like settling to me, but on the other hand, maybe I should just value the fact that he treats me so well…

    I know I’m rambling at this point…I just wish I knew what I felt in my heart and I don’t know how to figure it out. You suggested time apart and while I’d be ok with a night or two by myself, I think I would miss him (or at least having company…I’m not sure which one)…ugh. I feel like such a ditz for not even knowing my own heart!

  186.  #186dorothea on August 30, 2010 at 7:03 am

    aw what is bill doin’. silly guy. are you just gonna lean back and be with your feelings, and not do anything to try to “ignite” attraction today except be your leaned back, non-rowing self?

  187.  #187Renee on August 30, 2010 at 7:05 am

    Dorothea — I thought about you this weekend when I was realizing I had a dilemma. I remembered how you said you entered things with your LI the same way I’ve entered into this with cougar man and that you ended up falling for him.

    If I may ask — why didn’t you see yourself getting serious about him in the first place? Do you feel like you’re settling now?

    I guess it’s a good thing I let him drag me along to meet his parents…I originally told him I’d think about it and had planned to blow it off, but he kept trying to convince me and I finally relented…almost backed out on my way to meet them though, but I made it through it ok I guess.

  188.  #188dorothea on August 30, 2010 at 7:06 am

    hi missy, i used to sell cars. watch it, hehe:P car salespeople are successful because they are smarter than everyone they sell cars to. it’s quite a trait to admire. and if he does it all without being sleazy, then that’s an even bigger trait to admire.

    people have to buy cars somewhere, renee.

    cougar man sounds like my LI, how the situation got its start and all that…so i am feeling invested in your situation. sorry girl! i’ll try to keep it in check, but i have major exxperience in these situations so if you ever need advice just ask!

  189.  #189dorothea on August 30, 2010 at 7:10 am

    Renee, yay i feel so good that you asked me for my take on my situation. haha i’m hyper for a monday

    well, i don’t feel like i’m settling. i let him pursue me, and i was always open about what felt good and bad, and he responded appropriately. So LI is younger than me, poorer than me, has less career potential than me, is less experienced than me, BUT he responds to what makes me feel good and bad more carefully and intently than any other man i’ve ever dated. there is absolutely no settling in that! it’s the opposite of settling!

    I didnt see myself getting serious from the beginning because i thought it would be settling. He worked really hard to show me that he would be the best man to me, out of all the men out there with good jobs and status and age. it took him a while.

    It turns out he is more of a man than any of those other men i imagined myself getting with.

  190.  #190Simply Shannon on August 30, 2010 at 7:13 am

    I want to write some stuff down here about Mr. Fab Kisser. He’s been pulling back lately, and I found out this morning that he’s been on a date with someone else. From him, so no shady business. We aren’t exclusive. I still feel surprised by his admission. (I asked point blank because of something he said.) I feel bad for a variety of reasons and I’m going to process them here.

    I feel afraid that I haven’t opened my heart to him (not really).

    I feel afraid that I’m not obeying God by just letting this man go.

    I feel afraid that I’ll shut the door to sex with him (which I still want).

    I feel afraid to have sex with him because he could be having sex with someone else. (I actually feel sick about this).

    I feel afraid that he’s using me (just as much as I’m using him).

    I feel afraid he’ll replace me.

    I feel afraid of being second best.

    I feel afraid of rejection.

    I feel afraid of my defenses/my walls going up because I feel afraid of rejection. I want to reject him first before he can reject me.

    I feel afraid to be okay with his dating other people because I want him for sex.

    I don’t want FWB.

    Or do I?

    I feel afraid of FWB because I might fall in love and forever be relegated to the FWB category in his mind.

    I feel unsafe.

    Why do I feel unsafe?

    I don’t want a man pursuing other women.

    I don’t want sex with a man pursuing other women. (That feels hella unsafe).

    I feel really disappointed that my opportunity to have sex and heal this in myself is passing me by.

    I feel guilty discussing sex and thinking about sex and wonder if this is God taking away the option.

    I do love myself, and I feel pretty amused at the power I know I have over this. This is completely in my head and made up.

    Could I say F’ it and just sleep with him?

    What do I really want? What would be the picture perfect state for me?

    Amazing yummy sex without the pressure of a relationship with a man who isn’t seeing anyone else. LOL! I feel turned on.

  191.  #191Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 7:19 am


    Yes, I am going to stay leaned back. I mean, he was friendly, but he came down the aisle and talked to… the woman across the aisle, not me. And I guess he has me spoiled cuz I was expecting him to talk to me.

    Now this isn’t about Bill, because that was just a moment. But in general, I always wonder why a man rejects me. I want to know why so that if it’s something I am doing or whatever, I can improve, since I’m in a state of continual self-improvement.

    I am thinking about Balto. He clearly wanted a relationship the one date we had. Now he doesn’t. I wonder if it’s because of what Jason said, that some men are so insecure that they try to lock in a woman on the first date, and they are serial monogamists. I guess I just have to let it go, because it wouldn’t be appropriate to ask him why. I wasn’t especially attracted to him. Maybe he sensed that and he wanted to be the rejector rather than the rejectee. I would have just dated him as therapy. I liked a lot about him, but not enough to be serious about him.

  192.  #192Renee on August 30, 2010 at 7:28 am

    Dorothea — Yes, I know the judgement about his selling cars is just that — a judgement. I mean, I work as a realtor and people think we’re sleezy too, but I typically date business owners and attorneys and such. And, he’s told me about how drug abuse/alcholism is rampant in the car business and that’s a big turn off (he swears he doesn’t do drugs and I believe him), but the whole business just seems kind of sordid to me because of those things.

    Sounds like you really struggled with the same issues with your LI…do you still feel like you’re settling? Do you still sometimes wonder “what if”? I mean, I’ve had chances with several men with more social status but realistically, they all either hurt me or were so wrapped up in themselves that they were no fun to be with.

    I know you’re struggling with being vulnerable with your guy, but it sounds like you’re hoping for marriage with him? Do you have any doubts? I know I’m thinking prematurely here, but in the beginning (before I knew some of the bad things I’m judging him for) we talked about wanting a loving, committed relationship and he talked about how he enjoyed being married and that what he really wanted was to meet someone he could spend the rest of his life with. And he seems pretty intent on winning me over, which is good, but I still don’t know whether my feelings for him are genuine or it’s just so nice to not feel lonely anymore. I mean, I’ve been dating a lot the past couple of months and have still felt lonely late at night, but I always told myself I’d rather be alone than with the wrong guy. Now…I don’t know what the he** I’m doing:-/.

  193.  #193Renee on August 30, 2010 at 7:44 am

    Brenda — I feel concerned that you’ve let the door open back up with Ryan…I feel like he just stirs up all those old hopes and dreams in you and no one else will be able to compete with the fairytale relationship you had dreamed up for you two. (I’m probably sounding harsh here, but I’ve been there myself with Nashville man and I know it wasn’t good for me…kept me confused for going on 3 years).

    I’m going to sound like a therapist here, but I want you to examine your limiting belief that all men reject you. Surely you’ve had your share of men you’ve rejected as well, it’s just the ones that rejected you that stand out, perhaps?

    With Balto, I suspect, because you weren’t really into him, that he didn’t feel as good with you as if you had been into him, something Evan writes about. One of the primary tenants in Evan’s “Why He Disappeared” was that men stay with women who make them feel good, and that includes things like flirting with them, touching them, etc…all those things we tend to do when we’re actually interested in someone but not so much when we’re not interested. So I think you’re supposition that Balto backed off because you weren’t really interested is probably accurate and you, in fact, rejected him, not the other way around.

    I know it hurts to feel rejected (even though as far as you know, Bill hasn’t actually rejected you at this point…just needed to have a conversation with another coworker) but I do know that it doesn’t help to beat yourself up and keep questioning yourself. If you do start to recognize a pattern that you think isn’t serving you, by all means work to break it, but it sounds like you’re actually doing ok…just not awash with interesting men right now.

    Be gentle with yourself and accepting of the wonderful, witty you! The only thing I can think of that it seems you may need help with is accepting that you’re wonderful enough just as you are. What do you think?

  194.  #194Mercedes on August 30, 2010 at 7:56 am

    Daria and Turtle Girl! Thank you! I’m so happy you enjoyed it. I like to free form sometimes…it felt wonderful to put on paper how it feels for me to be lonely with my man right there…to then do what is right for me (even if that means turning away) and then to find what really makes me happy. To write about how I might do something just to hide the hurt…and because that something is working on me…I end up getting rid of the hurt.

    Heartbreak and Love…powerful stuff.

    Thanks again…glad you enjoyed…

    Much Love,

  195.  #195Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 8:02 am


    Thank you! I really needed to hear that about Ryan.

    No, I don’t have a limiting belief that every man will reject me. I used to. I was just saying that I like to know WHY when that happens. I am feeling quite on top of my identity and feeling more selective than ever, and I feel really good about who I am.

    Thanks again! I will really look at that fantasy thing with Ryan. That I know is an issue. I think a big part of it is I could talk to him and feel understood at a deeper level than with anyone else ever. I just really miss having him to talk with. He really helped me grow and to gain insight into myself. He is the best listener I have ever encountered! I strive to be the kind of listener he was! He asked questions rather than assuming. He really gave me his full focus. I miss pillow talk and cuddling most of all! 🙂

  196.  #196dorothea on August 30, 2010 at 8:26 am

    “do you still feel like you’re settling? Do you still sometimes wonder “what if”? I mean, I’ve had chances with several men with more social status”

    Renee, the quick answer is yes, I still wonder…and I do have chances with other men. This is why I have given LI the no girlfriend speech a few times. I am free to date other men who show an interest in me. The truth is I haven’t gone out with any other men because none have asked me out in the last few months, but knowing that i am not locked down to this one man keeps me from feeling like I’m settling. If I’m not married and there is a guy with more money and ambition or whatever, and he wants to take me out, the reality of it being that he might “steal’ me away from LI, then so be it.

    I feel good about getting engaged soon to LI, but I do have some doubts about his ability to get a better job and afford a ring and all that. It’s a big step to go from being a college student living off your parents, straight to being all on your own and supporting a whole household. I could see him having second thoughts. I think that I could have a big role in inspiring second thoughts in him, by being too demanding and putting pressure on him.

    It’ll have to be all his idea. My job is to stay open and always be an invitation to him. And to not put pressure on him by overfunctioning to keep the relationship boat going, or by making him feel like all he does isn’t good enough.

    This is going to be a challenge. Today, I feel up to it.

    This morning he was telling me about how much he loves me, and I said, I don’t feel worthy of it. And he said “you make me feel so good and you treat me so good.” And I thought…I treat you bad…

    It’s amazing how short term man memory is. haha. It’s like…if you’re acting like a bad girlfriend and turning him off or pissing him off, and you do a turn around on it, he doesn’t even remember that he ever had a problem with you.

  197.  #197AmberS on August 30, 2010 at 8:35 am


    I totally get how good it feels to have positive interaction with Ryan. I feel frustrated when I hear you say that the mean part isn’t him, but just his schizophrenia. And I don’t want you to take that as me telling or asking you not to state your beliefs here. But I feel afraid because in my interactions with unstable people I find it easy to get lulled into a sense of safety and then have the rug pulled out from under me. I find myself feeling the pain all over again along with a sense of horror because I knew it was possible all along.

    And I know for me the answer isn’t to close myself off, but I struggle with being open and safe at the same time.

    I feel protective of you. I feel concerned when I read you dividing him from his schizophrenia.

    I understand that you believe he can be cured.

    I believe alcoholism can be cured, too. And while a mean drunk seems to become a different person when he’s drinking I have to accept that as long as he is an alcoholic, that “different person” is who he is. It doesn’t show all of the time, but it’s still him.

    And it will continue to be him until he is healed.

    I know the difference between the two diseases. I don’t need or want to hear about Ryan’s issue from a factual perspective, but if you want to express that again I will listen.

    It would feel good to me to hear Ryan accepted as a whole person, schizophrenia and all.

    Yes, I know I’m stating that I want something from you. And no I am not an authority on the disease, or the possible cures or any of that. I am feeling love and a desire to keep you safe.

    This isn’t about RYAN for me, it’s about YOU.

    I feel powerless here. Wow.

    I accept that I feel powerless.

  198.  #198Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 9:14 am


    I really appreciate your tact and softness.

    I feel what you are saying. I accept him exactly the way he is. But the horrible side of him is so horrible. Let’s see if this clarifies my perspective…

    I separate who someone is from what they do. I separate the person from their wrongdoing. I love him unconditionally. I would never marry him with schizophrenia, tho. It IS something he can be free of and I’ve spoken with several authorities on schizophrenia who caution me to never marry him until he is free.

    What do you think?

  199.  #199AmberS on August 30, 2010 at 9:43 am

    Hrmmm. What I think…

    Does this mean I’m free to use my boy voice? GRIN

    I feel that when I separate actions from the person that took them I am not being honest with myself. And when I am not honest with myself I lose the chance to grow.

    Please don’t take offense at my using Ryan as an easy way for me to communicate this.

    For me, separating Ryan from his actions allows me to LOVE him, but it’s an incomplete love. My parents (and others I’ve known) used this saying:

    Love the sinner, hate the sin

    And how this feels to me is that I am not truly loving the sinner, because as long as they’re in their “sin”, that is one piece of who they are. So for me, in separating them from their actions I am only loving the parts of them that I approve of. This is not unconditional love. And it limits me.

    I know you are smart and will not think I am literally saying that his disease is a sin, but I want to make that distinction clear, in case someone else reads this at some point. I AM NOT SAYING SCHIZOPHRENIA IS A SIN, OR IN ANY WAY DUE TO HIS OWN ACTIONS.

    If I can get to a place in myself where I love ALL of a person, instead of breaking off pieces or ignoring pieces I feel whole and safe. Because I want to be loved completely. And because when my love encompasses the bad things too, my heart is able to love without expectation. And then, when the person acts from their disease or weakness or just their unevolved self I am not damaged by it because I have already accepted that possibility.

    This is not easy for me. Even once I get here, I find that I have to check in with myself regularly to keep that openness.

    Thank you for hearing me Brenda. And for giving me the opportunity to put this into words. I feel relieved.

  200.  #200Lucy on August 30, 2010 at 9:48 am

    Brenda, I would never bring up my marriage situation on a first date — except he asked me point-blank, “How long have you been divorced?”

    The car, on the other hand — I agree with you that I should’ve just let him believe it was MY car he was admiring — and, funnily enough, now it IS my car anyway!

    Shannon and others, thanks for sharing all your thoughts about this situation. I thought the same thing, Shannon — that I want him to have everything he wants in the woman he loves, and I wouldn’t want to stand in the way of that. I love him already — just for who he is — and I want him to be happy, even if it’s not with me. (Sounds corny, I know, but it’s true.)

  201.  #201Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 9:50 am

    Lucy, HE GAVE YOU THE OUTBACK??!! Wow! Congrats!

  202.  #202Lucy on August 30, 2010 at 9:50 am

    Amber, I love this:

    “Because I want to be loved completely. And because when my love encompasses the bad things too, my heart is able to love without expectation. And then, when the person acts from their disease or weakness or just their unevolved self I am not damaged by it because I have already accepted that possibility.”

  203.  #203Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 9:52 am


    Repeatedly I find it nearly impossible to express myself on here without going into my beliefs. This is an unusual situation. I’ve already said it, but in case you didn’t read it at the time I did…

    Schizophrenia = Evil spirits

    I hate evil spirits. I make an exception here because they are NOT a part of him. They are separate entities and if that offends or scares some people, please excuse me. I am saying it like it is. I had 10 months of dating this man to KNOW that I know that I know what I’m talking about. I HATE schizophrenia. It is not a disease. It IS evil spirits.

  204.  #204Lucy on August 30, 2010 at 9:53 am

    Lol, Brenda, yeah, he did!! He brought it over yesterday and smiled at me and said, “I even waxed it for you.”

    Sigh. And to think WH had admired it, too……

  205.  #205Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 9:53 am


    I appreciate what you said, and especially what Lucy quoted, also. In other situations I would totally agree with you.

  206.  #206Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 9:54 am


    That’s exciting! Those are nice cars! What color is it? Did you give him the van?

  207.  #207Lucy on August 30, 2010 at 9:56 am

    I know, I love it! It’s dark blue. Yes, I gave him the van. (I took Yoda out, though, and put him in the Outback. 🙂 )

  208.  #208Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 9:56 am


    How are you doing? What did you respond back to WH? Are you all right?

  209.  #209Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 9:57 am


  210.  #210Lucy on August 30, 2010 at 10:06 am

    I sent him a fairly long email and haven’t heard back yet (it was late last night that I sent it). I spoke from my heart, used a lot of feeling messages, and incorporated several of the ideas from TN man’s email as well as some from you Sirens. I feel good about what I wrote — I followed my heart and my intuition, and wrote it from a really good place emotionally. I do feel anxious about how he will respond. I used feeling messages to express what TN man said in his second paragraph — my openness to the moment regardless of where it might end up down the road. I hope that WH will also be open to that, because I would love to enjoy being with him again even if it’s not “forever.” But he might not want to do that.

    I’m doing okay. I have two offers for dates tonight — one with 25 (that will be a NO!), and one with D, which I will probably say yes to. I might even tell him I feel up to trying a little wine. 🙂

    Thanks for asking, Brenda. You are in my thoughts and prayers today as always. <3

  211.  #211Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 10:08 am


    I am happy that you sent him an email that you feel good about. What are your reasons for drinking or not drinking?

    You’re welcome!

  212.  #212Lucy on August 30, 2010 at 10:16 am

    Brenda, since I don’t have my ovaries anymore, my liver is one of the few places in my body that produces estrogen. When I drink, my liver has to work to process the alcohol and thus produces less estrogen. Last fall with D, I drank three glasses of wine, and then couldn’t get out of bed for three days because my estrogen was so low! But that was only a few months after my surgery, so it might not be as bad now. I don’t know. A couple months ago, with the Argentinian, I drank two fuzzy navels and was fine.

    I emailed D and told him yes for tonight, and added, “It might feel good to try a little wine again…What do you think?” 🙂

  213.  #213Lizzie on August 30, 2010 at 10:23 am

    Lucy – try a white wine spritzer. And just limit to 1-glass. Three glasses of wine (that is 18 oz!) is quite a lot for the liver to process when you haven’t built up a processing system. Just keep in mind that for every glass, you need to consume a minimum of 3X volume in water or you will dehydrate which will put you in bed for sure. For moderate drinkers, it is the dehydration that causes all the problems, not the actual alcohol content.

  214.  #214Daria on August 30, 2010 at 10:26 am

    la ila ilha il’alah – opens up my heart. the la sounds

    and i realize i say la la la as my signature

  215.  #215Lucy on August 30, 2010 at 10:32 am

    Dang, I was googling for something encouraging on this topic, and I found this instead:

  216.  #216Lizzie on August 30, 2010 at 10:34 am

    this is so cute!… I had sent a message to one of my clients, ( in response to his meeting request) with whom I have done some really excellent work….

    “….What a lovely holiday – now I am filled with ideas…naturally that could be brilliant or dangerous – which would you prefer?”

    and this is how he responded…what a guy….

    “You did have some amazing weather. As for brilliant or dangerous, my perception is that you’re both and I wouldn’t want it any other way.”

    Oh that feels so good!

  217.  #217Lucy on August 30, 2010 at 10:36 am

    This sounds better:

    “The best way to avoid a food allergy is to avoid the food that causes it. So when it comes to kissing, you should remind loved ones to wash their faces and brush their teeth if they know they’ve been eating something you’re allergic to.”

  218.  #218Daria on August 30, 2010 at 10:38 am


    So this guy friended me on myspace,

    and then on his status, there was something that caught my attention and surprised me…

    and i commented on it

    is that leaning forward ? i felt a lil shy but went for it…

    or is it that he’s “offering” that out, like jason talked about “offering” his picture and we comment. He friended me first.

    I wouldn’t have commented him in particular if that statement hadnt caught my attention … and produced a feeling response in me…


  219.  #219Lucy on August 30, 2010 at 10:38 am

    “In the findings, published in The New England Journal of Medicine, the researchers noted that four people suffered reactions even though their partners had brushed their teeth.”

  220.  #220Renee on August 30, 2010 at 10:40 am

    Lean back, lean back, lean back!!!!! Why am I always so tempted to overfunction when I started to develop feelings for someone? I guess it’s a control think…like now that I give a hoot, I will be able to control the outcome if I just take charge – not! If I pick up those oars, surely nothing good will come of it…this I know.

  221.  #221Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 10:40 am


    Do you or could you take estrogen supplements? I think my Mom does. Also, there are some foods that enhance that…maybe a health food remedy! Not sure what off the top of my head. I like light, fruity drinks!

  222.  #222Daria on August 30, 2010 at 10:41 am

    oh no now i feel jealous, i just see he commented something really nice on this other girl’s profile just now!



    i feel embarassed

    i feel good too and tingly and excited

    i feel thrilled! like im having fun

    i feel a lil sinky about this other girl

    i feel good tho

    him showing another girl love might show me he has gentleman in him


    im all into him now arent i

    i feel intrigued at myself and my lil “human playthings” men

  223.  #223Daria on August 30, 2010 at 10:43 am

    wow now he’s iming ME!

    I feel absolutely horrified and embarassed

    i feel like he can see me!

    i feel so not good enough

    omg i cant take this

    the popular boy found out i dorky me have a crush on him


    and hes gonnna check me out and hes not gonna like me

    thank kyou

    i lov eyou

    its ok to open up a lil bit if you want to


  224.  #224Lizzie on August 30, 2010 at 10:44 am

    Renee! drop those ores! you might tip over and drown!!! step away from the boat and get back on the bridge….my guy energy is throwing you a lifeline.

    I am feeling concerned….

  225.  #225AmberS on August 30, 2010 at 10:44 am

    Ahh Brenda,

    I love the new Wild Wild West style that Rori has instituted here on the blog. Anything goes!

    You have beliefs? Bring ’em right out here in public and express them. It’s okay with me if they don’t match mine. In fact, I’d like to hear about them and discover why you hold them and what I may have missed in forming mine. Maybe the same will be true in reverse, maybe not.

    Here’s my belief about evil spirits. I believe that “evil spirit” is a really interesting label to put on something I don’t yet understand or that doesn’t fall in line with my understanding of humans or life. All through history that label has been used in that manner. Germs used to be evil spirits, too.

    Here’s a belief I have about you and your situation.

    I believe that what Ryan did to you was SO EVIL and hurt SO BAD that you do not want to accept it as a part of him. I believe that if you did integrate that into your definition of who he is you would be forced into a different way of experiencing him.

    I believe that the GOOD things he was to you are SO PRECIOUS and SO BEAUTIFUL that you want to keep them sequestered in your heart and mind.

    I believe that you are strong enough and beautiful enough and loving enough to have both the evil and the good melted into one person in you. I believe that doing so would free you more than you can imagine to have someone better and more whole in your life.

    I believe that we all have “evil spirits” inside of us. I know something of this, having grown up in the cult I grew up in. Until I could accept those in myself, I was always afraid of them, because when I didn’t acknowledge my shadow self I was at the mercy of it. By stuffing it down and sitting on it I lost my ability to feel so many things. I now choose to accept that I am constantly dancing with that part of myself. I believe I can choose to not to let my evil spirits determine how I act.

    I believe that Ryan’s evil spirits may be chemicals in his natural earthly body that block out his wholeness. I believe that by wanting Ryan to NOT BE who he clearly is (even if it is just in the perspective of him being a host to evil spirits) you are communicating that you can not or will not accept him wholly. I believe that may be rooted in your desire to feel all of the wonder and magic and beauty and LOVE that you experienced with him again. I believe that by wanting him to be cured/free of schizophrenia you are resisting the now, and delaying the love that you deserve.

    I believe that when Ryan is free and you are free of the attachment to him, you will be an open vessel, ready to be completely filled with the love that awaits you. I believe that you can have everything you want. I believe that your everything can come to you free of encumbrances, or challenges, or reasons to postpone your happiness.

    I believe that by completely surrendering to the present I can find my way to acceptance and in that acceptance I can release any attachment to the outcome or the persons involved.

    I believe this is a state of bliss.

    I believe the practice of this is the biggest challenge I have ever experienced.

    I believe that this post will hurt your feelings.

    I believe you are strong enough to accept your hurt feelings.

    I believe that I want you to be healthy and whole.

    I hope you believe that too.

  226.  #226Renee on August 30, 2010 at 10:44 am

    Daria — I think it is considered leaning forward and I think occasionally, when you’re totally unattached to the outcome, that can be ok, but just looking at my dating experiences on Match and eH, it definitely has worked better when the man has initiated contact…almost like they’re thinking, “well, if she’s really that great, she wouldn’t have had to step up to try to get my attention.” I do think it’s unfair, but I guess it’s just the way they’re wired…since it’s a social network though and he friended you first, that might end up being okay…just thought I’d throw my 2 cents in there:-).

  227.  #227Lizzie on August 30, 2010 at 10:46 am

    ugh, can’t spell – drop the oars! oars! don’t row the boat, you must not invest in the outcome. OK I am holding up the mirror – Lizzie stop with this boat nonsense, you keep falling in….

  228.  #228Daria on August 30, 2010 at 10:46 am

    (hes very abrupt)

    whats your name

    — now i feel even more offbalance and unimportant —

    lean back

    i said hi my name is Daria

    i might know him cuz he looks like he could be an older cousin to one of my CD’s. he is handsome hmm

    now he doesnt say anything


    i feel on fire

    i can relax now

    i feel good

    i am relaxing

    he is probably looking thru my amazing pictures and not being able to believe his luck that i the goddess commented on his status

    ohhh hes kinda young still

    i feel poised and quivering, still in the wind in the forest, smelling the air

    i feel amused

    ok now im gonna do something else

  229.  #229Daria on August 30, 2010 at 10:50 am

    he said its nice to meet u

    i said its nice to meet u too

  230.  #230Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 10:54 am


    No, my feelings aren’t hurt. You have a very gentle way of expressing yourself that is so non-offensive. And, you make a lot of sense. There is at least a degree of accuracy to what you say about my beliefs surrounding Ryan.

    So, in the interests of me being my best self and moving on, I accept what you say. Ryan is disqualified. He broke my heart. Next?

  231.  #231AmberS on August 30, 2010 at 10:56 am

    I love you.

  232.  #232Lucy on August 30, 2010 at 11:03 am

    Sending you hugs and love, Shannon — just read your post about Fab Kisser. 🙁 <3

  233.  #233AmberS on August 30, 2010 at 11:04 am


    Thank you for hearing me all of the way through that long, long post. That “I love you” I posted above was for you.

    I feel curious about what feels the absolute best to you? Other than what Ryan shared with you from his beautiful self, what is the MOST loved you’ve ever felt? What is the happiest you’ve ever been? What makes you feel 100% ALIVE?

    I am so excited about exploring this with you! I am working on this for myself right now. It goes with Jacqueline’s Positive Beliefs post.

    I want to grow my happy! I would feel so good growing together in this.

  234.  #234Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 11:05 am

    Amber, I love you, too! 🙂

  235.  #235Lucy on August 30, 2010 at 11:06 am

    Barb, very good point: “maybe he drinks a lot more than he is saying……”

  236.  #236Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 11:08 am


    The most loved I ever felt from a human being was from my all-time favorite pastor, who was married. The most loved I ever felt totally was from God! 🙂 I am in love with God, and He is my husband!

    I feel happiest when I am delving into His beautiful Heart, Mind, and Spirit!!

    I would love to explore this with you, too! I feel happiest next to that when I am with a man who is like God, very kind, loving, gentle, and accepting.

  237.  #237Lucy on August 30, 2010 at 11:15 am

    Hey Erika, you around? Did you ever heal anyone’s shellfish allergy with HBR??? 🙂

  238.  #238Daria on August 30, 2010 at 11:16 am

    i told him i was getting off the computer but he can call me.. this is my number

    he ssaid alright sexy


    now hes commening MY pics with nice things yey

  239.  #239Renee on August 30, 2010 at 11:20 am

    Thank you, Lizzie. I am actively trying to not pick up those oars by not txting him with questions about his plans for tomorrow and whether he’s coming over tonight. I don’t know if this guy is the right guy for me or not, but if nothing else, he’s giving me the opportunity to learn from my past mistakes and choose to behave differently from how I’ve behaved in the past (overfunctioning).

    I am a control freak! I need to let go of my desire to control and trust that God/the universe will bring me what I need, including the right relationship.

    Which brings me to my next concern…this guy wants an exclusive relationship with me and I feel very mixed about this. I’ve been in his position before and I hated it — Nashville guy and I had a ‘sexually exclusive’ agreement though he was free to see other people (well, I was too, but I didn’t really want to). It continually made me feel like I wasn’t enough and I don’t want him to feel that way. (He seems confident, but c’mon, everyone has vulnerabilities). Whenever I would ask why we couldn’t give our relationship a real shot, he’d say something like, “why can’t we just keep things the way they are now and see what happens?” and I hated it when he said that to me.

    On the other hand, I still feel unsure if he’s the guy for me and I’m really scared of becoming exclusive with him only to, a year down the road, determine I can’t marry him and I’ve now passed up how many other opportunities with other men who may have been closer to the picture in my head of what it is that I’m looking for.

    I feel the need for a power speech coming on, and I don’t know what to say…I only have a few more days of being “free” before I have to tell him something about the issue and I have no clue what to say.

    In the past, I’ve told him that I didn’t want to repeat my past mistakes by jumping into an exclusive relationship too quickly, but I haven’t told him “no exclusivity until I have a ring”…I know that’s a valid way of doing things, but I don’t think he’s going to go for that and I’m not sure that’s exactly what I want either. I wish I could have another couple of months to get to know him before I committed to being exclusive with him, but I’m afraid he may decide that if I’m not willing to be exclusive that I’m not serious about finding the ‘one’ to settle down with and therefore he doesn’t want to see me anymore. Any suggestions for a power speech to someone I’m spending virtually all my free time with anyway?

    The only thing I can think of to say is that I still don’t feel I know him that well and I’m not comfortable committing to only him until I feel more of a comfort level with who he is. I also think I could say that if things were to get serious at some point down the road and he asked me to marry him, wouldn’t he feel better if I was certain he was ‘the one’ because I didn’t limit my options right away and I chose him above all others? Hmmm….need to ponder this a while…

  240.  #240Lucy on August 30, 2010 at 11:23 am

    “he is probably looking thru my amazing pictures and not being able to believe his luck that i the goddess commented on his status”

    “i feel poised and quivering, still in the wind in the forest, smelling the air”

    Daria, I feel poised and quivering waiting for your BOOK to be published and in my hands!!!

    This is absolutely gorgeous stuff.

  241.  #241Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 11:26 am

    I FEEL embarrassed (I changed “am” to “feel” just for you, Dorothea! 🙂 )…

    I am sorting old work emails and just realized how much silly stuff I say to Bill. I am thinking about why I do that. I think it is to cover up my self-consciousness. How can I not do that? Just be silent. Feel, lean back, learn back…

    Silent…feel the discomfort, embarrassment, shame, self-consciousness.

    Relax into the feelings. I love my discomfort. I love my embarrassment. I love my shame. I love my self-consciousness.

    I can gently let those things go and I don’t need to feel them anymore because I am no longer navigating relationships in the dark.

    Now I am a well-trained diva siren goddess princess mermaid!

    Now I know what to say, when to say it, what not to say…

    Now I am relaxed and confident around attractive men.

    I love my confidence! I love my relaxed state! I love my peace! I love my calm! I love my sassiness! I love my silliness! I don’t need to be silly or funny or witty anymore to cover anything. I love myself exactly the way I am, silly and serious, silly or serious.

    I feel calm. I feel breathtaking! I feel ravishing! I feel in control. I love my feelings of not feeling in control. I love my so-nervous-I-want-to climb-into-a-crack-on-the-wall jitteryness.

    I feel, I feel, I feel.

    I feel radiating heat in my head when I feel embarrassed, like my brain is full of hot, popping popcorn so I can’t think or breathe.

    I want to be. No, I am. I possess it within me already.

    Cum on out to play, diva princess siren beautiful woman. It is safe here. And if anything is unsafe, you are strong enough and wise enough to rise above it.


  242.  #242dorothea on August 30, 2010 at 11:38 am

    holy CRAP brenda
    that was gorgeous

  243.  #243Lucy on August 30, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Just realized something while I was vacuuming.

    WH was in love with his wife and heartbroken that she left him — BUT, apparently in spite of the love he had for her, he was unwilling to compromise with her about the drinking issue — or at least give in to what she needed from him in order to make it work.

    So it’s not about him not being into me enough to compromise about drinking. Like someone said on here, it’s his issue and not about me at all.

  244.  #244Renee on August 30, 2010 at 11:43 am

    That’s a great frame of mind (and heart!) for you to be in Brenda. That feels good to me:-).

  245.  #245Lucy on August 30, 2010 at 11:43 am

    I second what Dorothea said!!!

  246.  #246dorothea on August 30, 2010 at 11:45 am

    “Any suggestions for a power speech to someone I’m spending virtually all my free time with anyway?”

    yeah, here’s what i said that worked well:
    “i don’t feel comfortable getting all exclusive and locked down before serious commitment. it feels so good to be around you and I don’t want to put pressure on anything. What do you think?”

    Then he was like how do i know if you’re serious if you won’t be serious blah blah, how do i know you’re for real. classic.

    my response: “i want to be married one day, so i don’t want to be a pretend wife. it feels bad and draining acting like a committed and loyal wife when there isn’t even a ring on my finger.”

    we’ve gotten into deeper conversations about this, just shootin the sh*t, and I revealed to him my philosophy on it – waiting till marriage to act like a wife is even more valuable than waiting till marriage to have sex. Sex is one thing, and many people agree that it is unreasonable to expect your wife to be some devoted virginal sex slave who awakens under command of your penis.

    on the other hand, it DOES cheapen my future husband by acting like a wife to every man who comes along and pays attention to me.

  247.  #247Renee on August 30, 2010 at 11:46 am

    Lucy — that’s an excellent point. It is his issue, not yours. And if you don’t enjoy drinking, I don’t see the good in starting if it’s so bad for your body…it feels like perhaps you’re giving into peer pressure by deciding to try some wine with D tonight…what do you think?

  248.  #248Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 11:47 am

    Thank you. I have lived much of my life in a state of embarrassment for a lot of reasons. It almost feels like my identity. This is a big one to feel and let go.

    Ugh. I feel embarrassed some more. This one will take some time to release, so please bare with me (bare intentionally misspelled, Dorothea! 🙂 )

  249.  #249dorothea on August 30, 2010 at 11:48 am

    I bare with everyone all day long.
    I feel embarrassed too. And then I bare that as well.

    Daria calls it “spill nausea.” When you tell someone about something personal and then feel sick over it.

  250.  #250Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Dorothea, You said it all well! I got a kick out of your sentence about the penis. The word penis always gets my attention!

  251.  #251Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 11:51 am

    It’s okay to be silly some of the time. But I think for a while I want to study not being silly to help me get out of the habit of it. I want to transform. It’s time.

    Spill nausea ad infinitum!

  252.  #252Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 11:52 am

    In case you all missed it on the newest thread…


    You may remember that Erika said on Friday she has an idea of something she would like to do (for free). When I didn’t see anything more about it, I emailed her and asked. Here is her idea…

    She is open to doing an HBR call (probably 90 minutes) with the Sirens!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    She said we can do a general anger release and positive reframing of beliefs session … She doesn’t have time to organize a group, so I offered to do that. She is going to run a teleclass… She can take questions beforehand and answer them on the call … She can take a list of limiting beliefs and frustrations collected from the whole group and use that for tapping sequences.

    The basic idea is that this is an opportunity to check out HBR for free in a group teleclass. Everyone would tap along and benefit from the call. Erika’s suggestion for a topic is Clearing Anger and Limiting Beliefs About Men, but she’s open to other topics if there is a different consensus.

    I asked Rori about it, and this is what she said:

    “Hi Brenda, This is Rori – I’m totally fine with whatever you wish to do – I love EFT and the HBR that Erika has developed from it (I love and know Erika, too), and would be fine however you wanted to handle it…I assume it would be some kind of conference teleclass – and if you’ll let me know when it is, I’ll try and attend. I can’t help you organize – but you have my blessings to do whatever you’d like…feel free to put the link up somewhere in a comment….Love, Rori”

    We would need to do the call an evening or weekend Pacific time after Sept. 12.

    The next thing, if you want to do it, is to email me if will commit to join us on the call. After we have a cohesive group, I will provide details and set up the call itself. This week is extraordinarily busy for Erika, so she is leaving it entirely in my hands to recruit people.

    This is an exciting opportunity to discover new ideas towards being our best selves! So what do you think?? Please email me at if you would like to participate!


  253.  #253Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 11:53 am

    Much of my past speech has been shaped by embarrassment. Please excuse me for living. Please accept me even tho I am taking up space. I don’t feel worthy of speaking or being listened to.


    I love my poor self-esteem. I am not that person anymore. I have morphed into a butterfly.

  254.  #254Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 11:57 am

    Bill has left for the day and he barely spoke to me. Maybe he just wasn’t feeling well after being sick over the weekend. Maybe it has nothing to do with me at all. But even if it does, do I need to be embarrassed?

    No, I don’t. I still like who I am and love who I am.

    I am worthy and lovely with or without Bill’s attention. Stop. It’s okay that he didn’t hardly talk with you today.

    I feel embarrassed still. I feel good that I am spending more time focusing today. I feel happy that I know who I am and don’t need a man’s approval to make me good enough. I feel beautiful. I love the parts of me that aren’t beautiful.

  255.  #255dorothea on August 30, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    i started noticing how much we say sorry and excuse me in america.

    OH, i walked by you in the grocery store. EXCUSE ME

    oh, i have to walk in front of the cans of corn you’re looking at so I can get to the milk. I’M SORRY!

    oh, we’re going through the same door at the same time. EXCUSE ME. I’M SORRY!

    Oh, we’re passing each other on the street. ‘scuse me…

    haha, please. b*tch, please!!! we apologize for ourselves in this society for no freakin reason at all. maybe even 10 times a day. this has got to wear on our psyches. I, for one, don’t excuse myself. I say HELLO!

    oh, we’re passing each othe ron the street. HELLO!

    oh, i’m walking in front of the corn you’re looking at so i can get to the milk. HELLO!

    oh, we’re trying to get through the same door. HELLO!

    and i read this one somewhere – instead of saying sorry for being late, say “i’m so glad to have made it!” now that’s bold. i like it.

  256.  #256AmberS on August 30, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    Wow. The Louise Hay newsletter has a piece about this book today:

    F**k It

    To say F**k It feels good. To stop struggling and finally do what you wish . . . to ignore what everyone is telling you and just go your own way . . . feels really great.

    In this inspiring and humorous book, John C. Parkin suggests that saying F**k It is the perfect Western expression of the Eastern spiritual concept of letting go, giving up, and finding real freedom by realizing that things don’t matter so much (if at all).

    It’s a spiritual way that doesn’t require chanting, meditating, or wearing sandals. And it’s the very power of this modern day profanity that makes it perfect for shaking us Westerners out of the stress and anxiety that dominate our daily lives.

  257.  #257Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 12:03 pm


    Hey, I like that!! Thanks! I’m so glad to have made it! Hello!

  258.  #258Lucy on August 30, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    Hi Renee. I do like drinking. I drank a couple drinks on another date recently (before the issue with WH came up) and enjoyed it — and my body did okay with it. I think I just have to not go too far — and Lizzie(?) suggested I drink a lot of water too, to prevent dehydration.

    Also, there are some things that I am open to changing about myself and my lifestyle for a man — in a healthy way — while keeping my necessary boundaries in place. What do you think?

  259.  #259Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Amber, LOL! Because Kenny is in prison, he swears a lot, because he is just around it every day. Being around him, I got in the habit of saying F*ck it sometimes!

    When I say it around my Mom, she always gets angry and tells me I need to work on my rebellious attitude.

    I tell her, “F*ck that!” LOL! I love my rebellious side!

  260.  #260AmberS on August 30, 2010 at 12:07 pm


    You are glowing amazing outrageously gorgeous.

    #247 is just… STUNNING.

  261.  #261BarbinOz on August 30, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    You ladies ROCK!! Just reading the posts here in Australia at 5am and you are just all soooo knowledgeable about this stuff, thank you for sharing. x

  262.  #262Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    Amber, Thank you!!!

    Barb, Go back to bed!!! LOL!

  263.  #263BarbinOz on August 30, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    Brenda I just got up!!! Am off for my walk/jog at 5.30am but just have to come on here whenever I can to read all your words of wisdom, we only have limited Internet access at work, good job really otherwise I would do nothing all day but read your “stories” and see how you all help each other to learn.

    I wrote MM a stupid stupid email last night and now feel mighty embarrassed, I wish I wasn’t such a smart a$$ sometimes, but it’s part of ME, maybe a part that needs to change, what do you think? Is that boy energy?

  264.  #264Lucy on August 30, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Haha, I just called D, because he doesn’t check email that often and I wanted to respond to his invitation for tonight. He hadn’t read my email — and then, during the convo, he said, “Can you still not drink wine?”

    I laughed and told him that I had mentioned in the email that it would feel good to try a little wine tonight.

    It feels interesting that he asked that! I have gone out with him several times since the wine incident with him last fall, and he hasn’t mentioned drinking again until now. Hmmm….

  265.  #265Lucy on August 30, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    Wait, so do we just say “F*ck it” and then we don’t need HBR??? This is bad news for Erika! Lol. 🙂

  266.  #266Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 12:23 pm


    I find a lot of my stuff I say that I am embarrassed about is trying to cover a lack of confidence etc…is that true for you?

    I am learning I can be silent and strong. I don’t need to be saying anything, funny, silly, stupid, or clever, in order to be impressive.

    I can be silent and wonderful. And I can love my embarrassment and foolishness.

    And watch as I turn confident and silent and strong.

  267.  #267Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    Lucy, LOL!

  268.  #268Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    What if Kenny gets released and I marry him because he’s comfortable and safe? I don’t know.

  269.  #269Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    When will I have no uncertainties? Will that day come? I want to be secure, steady, and sure of myself all the time. What makes me think candy bars and cheesecake hold all the security and confidence in the world? That’s stinkin thinkin.

  270.  #270Renee on August 30, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Brenda — Somewhere along the way, I lost a lot of my “chatterbox” self and became more quiet around new people, all in an effort, I think, to win more approval. The thing that’s disturbing about this though, is this isn’t how I was growing up…I’ve always been sensitive, but I was also outgoing and giggly and would get into trouble for talking in class, lol.

    Just yesterday, cougar man told me that his parents liked me, but they commented that, “she’s kind of quiet though”…now I feel judged and despite the fact that their overall impression of me was favorable, I feel like being “quiet” is somehow bad now, like people would prefer it if I were more outgoing and chatty right off the bat (I tend to get more chatty the better I know people).

    So what I’m saying is…be careful with biting your tongue so much…you may find you end up suppressing the real you to an extent that people actually get a false impression of who you are…heck, it could change who you are if you do it enough. I agree it’s important to learn what’s appropriate to say and do in various situations, but I’ve finally gotten to the point where I feel that I’m very good at behaving ” appropriately” but I’m not even sure that’s the real me. Isn’t the real you boisterous and chatty? What if someone you were interested in were to dismiss you because they thought you were too quiet? Just a question based on some recent self-reflection. I’m not sure changing who I am has been a good thing and I wouldn’t want you to do that if that’s not being true to who you are. What do you think?

  271.  #271dorothea on August 30, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    god, this talk about impressions on people and men’s parents has me feeling triggered, churned up, and embarrassed of myself.

    i feel not good enough for a good man’s parents to like.

  272.  #272BarbinOz on August 30, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    Renee #276 I agree. As important as it is to learn the RR way of doing things, we still need to be ourselves. Some of this dialogue I can’t do, because it is sooo not the way I speak and feels weird. So I am going to have to play around with it until it feels more me like.

    I want to attract the right man, but I still want to be comfortable enough to be ME. And I can’t play a part, I am not an actress.

    Does this make sense?

  273.  #273Lucy on August 30, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    Jacqueline, thanks for what you wrote back to me. It felt good and encouraging, especially:

    “You attract men easily…..and they respect you enough to reply to you. … But it is a big compliment to you that you attract some high quality men.”

    You asked,

    “Yet, you easily seem to move on, so I can just assume it is part of you that doesn’t bother you and you just feel what you feel and go on?”

    Well, these things DO bother me, but I try to process through them. I try to bring all the unconscious stuff to the surface and face it as honestly as I can and work through it. It doesn’t usually get all resolved at once, though, so some of it just goes back down inside me to rest for awhile until I am ready for more healing around it. But bit by bit I feel more healed. I use a lot of Rori’s tools, and the interactions with other Sirens– and also a bunch of stuff TN man taught me.

    Does that clarify my process for you at all?

  274.  #274Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 1:04 pm


    Good to keep in mind. I have become chatty as a means of covering embarrassment and self-consciousness. I need to at least tame it. Just now I was sitting at Matt’s desk, and I must have thot of 5 things to “say”, just to fill the silence and discomfort. I kept my mouth shut. I need to practice this until I am not quite so over the top. I don’t want to completely squealch it out of myself, no. I just want to speak because I have something worthwhile to say. I can assure you of this…my spoken self is pretty different than my written self. I premeditate most of what I write. I talk too much.

    This conversation reminds me of the day I worked as the executive assistant for the vice president of marketing at a bank. No one was present all day, not a soul. I had zero instruction. I had no idea what was expected of me, and it was too early in my career to really know without being told.

    During the day, the VP called in once. He got my voicemail, and when I called him back, he said, “That is the voicemail message of the woman who you are replacing. Please replace the message with your own.”

    I listened to the voicemail greeting, and it was very bland and canned, like the voice of a half dead librarian. I tried to fit in by recording a message in a similar tone of voice.

    Bad call! It struck me later that in marketing you want to be upbeat and enthusiastic. I tried to be a chameleon, and it backfired on me!

    I met the VP at the end of the day, for about 60 seconds. I was called by the employment agency after I left saying they didn’t want me back. It was unfair that I was given no instruction. But I failed the test. If I had been my enthusiastic self, I probably would have made it to Day 2!

  275.  #275BarbinOz on August 30, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    Lynne #182, sorry I missed this message to me.

    You have given me plenty to think about, can’t believe you have had so many dates – I can’t even get a phone call LOL!!

    One of the 3 said he was going to call me “sometime over the weekend” and he didn’t, does anybody think this would be a good time for me to use some “feeling” messages on somebody I don’t really care who calls or not?

    Maybe something like “It feels uncomfortable when somebody says they will call and they don’t”

    What do you think? God I am really starting to hate hearing that. It makes me feel that if I were to have to say that to a man, any man, on a daily basis I would feel powerless and approval seeking and like the “little 1950’s doormat wife” and of course I am here because that’s how I ended up in my marriage and I wasn’t saying that, I was rowing the boat and controlling things and manipulating things and I don’t really know how to drop the oars and just be……….and I don’t want to have long hair and wear red lacy tops as I saw on one post here, I just want to be ME, I feel like I am being fake somehow…..I think this is called riffing or is it riffling…..whatever……. 😀

  276.  #276BarbinOz on August 30, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    Brenda #272

    Yes I think I do have a lack of confidence in some areas mainly men.

    In the workplace I can be as confident as the next one.

    I am learning with all of your help to think before I speak, which is quite hard for me as I have a very fast brain and a fast mouth!! So I ALWAYS have an answer, I am not one of those who goes away and thinks I didn’t think at the time of what to say, I say it there and then, right or wrong………..sometimes regretting what I have said later.

    I am going to get ready for work now as I am getting a little confused, do I have to be the little quiet one? What if I want to be bold and sassy?

  277.  #277tinque on August 30, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    Brenda – Yes! Yes!! YES!!! That was Awesome…Beautiful…Fantastic…YAY!!!

  278.  #278tinque on August 30, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    dorothea – Hello…(I SO like this) Hello, hello, hello.
    I just got blue nails…hello.

  279.  #279tinque on August 30, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    anybody know much about vaso vagal response? Jennifer?


  280.  #280tinque on August 30, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    BarbinOz – You just be YOU, authentic YOU, however you may be in any given moment, quiet and introspective or bold and sassy or anything in between or anything at all…

  281.  #281dorothea on August 30, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    i was driving my boss’ car around a few minutes ago and realized i felt so hungry. so i went to the drive thru at kfc, but i didn’t have my glasses on so i couldn’t read the menu. i started feeling self-conscious and embarrassed about taking so long to order that i ordered the first decent thing i could see a picture of. It was a fuzzy picture through my eyes but I could tell there was cheese on it, and I am avoiding dairy. “I’ll have the original doubledown, please, and no cheese.”

    Turns out, the “buns” i saw on this sandwich are pieces of fried chicken shaped like buns, hence the term “double down.” Disgusting. I need to stop forgetting my glasses. inside it was slices of bacon and spicy sauce. No cheese.

  282.  #282BarbinOz on August 30, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Thanks Tinque, cos I am getting a little confused with it all LOL!!

    Just be ourselves but maybe better AUTHENTIC selves??? And stop pretending we are OK when in a relationship when we are not, you know like when the guy asks how you are and you may have built up resentment but you say “Fine” but really you are not, you shouldn’t have allowed this stuff to build up and fester in you, you should have TOLD him at the time with feeling words how you really feel, not in arguing or blaming just in FEELING, am I getting it yet??

  283.  #283Laughing goddess on August 30, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    Barbinoz: “am I getting it yet??”


    I would say YES!

  284.  #284Laughing goddess on August 30, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    Dorothea: I feel giggly reading your post! And kind of ewwww reading the description of your sandwich.

    And curious how you are able to drive without your glasses.

    And a little bit worried

    and trusting that you know what you are doing.

    That’s the download on my feeling process reading your post 🙂

  285.  #285tinque on August 30, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    Yes in Barbinoz, you’re getting it.
    eg. How are you? Well I’m feeling annoyed (or a little angry. It feels bad being ignored (or whatever the situation is) and I don’t like feeling this way.”
    Make sense?

  286.  #286Lucy on August 30, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    Okay, I’m getting ready for my date with D… but I don’t get this long run-on sentence from WH’s email:

    “Both these issues I hate raising because I know they are not your fault and I feel crappy bringing them up, but add that to the fact that I am so recently divorced and you are still married I felt like if I was to pursue you romantically anymore it would be wrong because I could tell you really liked me and I am attracted to you physically and personality but it’s just I can’t see a long-term future for us at the moment so it would be wrong for me to keep after you.”

    I wish he had said this part more clearly. I don’t fully understand it. What do you think?

  287.  #287Ocean on August 30, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    I’ve been doing circular dating for a while now – a year or so. The problem I’m having is that I’m not meeting guys that I feel excited about at all. I’m on two dating websites and get a lot of emails/winks etc, I get asked out on Facebook, I go out and meet them, practice the Tools, etc, but, well, the guys are just not attractive to me in any way. I feel like I’m scraping the bottom of the barrel. And I don’t have the heart or energy to see them again. I feel repulsed at the idea of kissing them.

    I’ve been dating chastely since March, at which time I discovered, after a lot of soul searching, that it was the only way that really made sense for me to date. I don’t want to become sexually involved again with any man until I’m either engaged or married. This part of it has been great, because I’ve taken control of my power and don’t give it away like I used to when I got sexually involved with men after a few months of dating, which I now realize is way way too soon (although they certainly didn’t think so). The 3 men I’ve been sexually involved with over the past 2 years turned out to have nothing to offer me as far as what I want, but were perfectly fine with using me for sex while offering me nothing but sex. That’s not what I want. So I stopped. I can’t do sex without a real commitment anymore. I’m not wired for it, and it doesn’t match my deeper values regarding love and sex.

    But I don’t know what gives, or why I’m stuck in this seemingly endless process of meeting guys that either have nothing to offer me or are just utterly utterly unattractive to me.

    The last guy I was involved with turned out to be struggling with a severe porn addiction (so bad that he’s suicidal over it, and can’t seem to quit), and I had reason to believe he cheated on me (which he of course denies as if I’m crazy, because as you all know, we don’t see what we see or hear what we hear right?) It’s infuriating the way a man will initiate everything, including requesting sexual exclusivity from me, but have no intention of meeting his end of the bargain!!! WTH??? This makes me feel incredibly angry I just want to beat the crap out of them. It’s unjust, and shows a lack of respect and character that I can hardly fathom. I am not talking about drug addicts/alcoholics or thugs, I’m talking about men who would be considered normal by societal standards. I now wonder with no lack of resentment, if there is such a thing as an honest man, I mean, if you have no intention if being monogamous, then why would you initiate a monogamous relationship? Am I some kind of experiment for them? They all say “I love you” a million times. I have no idea what kind of love they’re talking about as it turns out they don’t show it in any meaningful ways, in fact, quite the opposite. I’m tired, so so tired of the whole thing. I’m now considering living the rest of my life as a single non-dating woman.

    I’m at a place where I just think men suck (in case that’s not coming through here lol), and I don’t want any part of it. They don’t seem to have any values or morals or character or self-control. They don’t respect women, and have been so spoiled by easy sex that their efforts in dating are as minimal as they can possibly get. That I would tolerate these men in my life is impossible, and I would rather live alone forever rather than degrade myself to their level.

    So yeah, I feel stuck, and I feel cynical, and I feel hopeless. The more I date the more disappointed I end up feeling. I don’t want to hate men but the more I date the more I feel hateful toward their gender as a whole. Not good. It seems like the only men I respect anymore are male friends, but were I to date them that would probably reveal their underside of ugliness.

    I didn’t start dating with this attitude, I was hopeful and positive-thinking and excited. Now the whole thing is like a balloon with all the air gone out of it.

    I’m intelligent, talented, good-looking, stable, easy to get along with, and fully available for a real relationship and willing to share my life with the right man. I now think he doesn’t exist. I’ve learned a lot about myself and what I really want, and how to conduct myself according to my values and wishes during this process, and yet I have not met a single truly suitable man. I live in NYC, so obviously there’s no problem with numbers of available men. What gives? Should I give up like I feel like doing? Live my life in peace without the lame dramas these guys bring into my life? I am not conceited, but I think the guys I meet just aren’t “good enough” for me, because the truth is, they aren’t, and I’m not a settler, not would I ever be settled for. I’m 47 (look 10 years younger I’m told by, like, everyone), never been married, don’t have or want kids. Am I asking too much to meet someone I’d like to spend the rest of my life with? Should I just give up what seems to be more and more an impossible goal? Are there any worthy men out there? I can’t take any more of this. I’m not going out with guys that I don’t feel excited about anymore. I can practice the tools til doomsday, but that doesn’t mean a guy for me even EXISTS. So this is where I’m at – all my efforts just feel silly and inconsequential. I guess I’m giving up.

  288.  #288Laughing goddess on August 30, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    Lucy: my interpretation

    he feels attracted to you and can tell you are attracted to him

    he feels worried about your long term future together because of the issues he expressed

    he feels crappy for expressing his worries outloud to you because he doesn’t want to hurt your feelings

    I feel a little weird now trying to get in his head. I feel more curious about you. What’s going on with you?

    You feel confused? What else?

  289.  #289dorothea on August 30, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    i shouldnt drive without my glasses, though i am able to. mostly i can’t read anything more than a couple feet past my face if i don’t have glasses, so i can’t always see road signs from a distance or street signs.

    i’m cocky and dangerous and for the record i did go home and get the glasses after that.

  290.  #290Laughing goddess on August 30, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    Lucy! I feel excited about this idea I just had!

    What if, since you are still sorting through your feeling and feeling confused about what he said, what if you just responded with a message where you just reflect back what you think he said with maybe one feeling message at the end?

    Something like…

    “So I’m hearing you say that you feel worried about our long term compatability due to my shellfish allergy, and the drinking thing, and us both being so recently divorced (I am divorced btw, it’s just a technicality). I’m also hearing you say that you feel bad telling me this because you don’t want to hurt my feelings.

    Well, I really appreciate you taking my feelings into consideration and I feel understanding of your concerns about the other things. But I felt really good spending time with you and I feel sad about not getting a chance to get to know you better.”

    It could be refined a bit but what about something along those lines… I hear your concerns and I feel…whatever it is you feel but keeping it on the positive side of things.

  291.  #291Laughing goddess on August 30, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Ooo, I just reread the part about the divorce. That sounds defensive. I take that part back.

  292.  #292Laughing goddess on August 30, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    Ooo Dorothea. I feel bad. I hope my post didn’t make you feel defensive. The question did cross my mind, how could D drive if she couldn’t see the sign? But then I thought, she’s a big girl and she knows what she’s doing.

  293.  #293Laughing goddess on August 30, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    Lucy: I feel excited! This might be a really good opportunity for you two to bond, for you to let him see that you do hear him and understand his concerns. Who knows, it’s possible that no woman has ever responded to him in this way. This could be awesome!!!

  294.  #294dorothea on August 30, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    lg,it’s all good. i don’t feel defensive. just sick from taking a bite out of my kfc doubledown lol

  295.  #295Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 5:08 pm


    I read it he has three issues:

    You’re married

  296.  #296Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 5:11 pm


    I don’t think we need to be one way or the other, either bold and sassy OR timid and quiet. It’s a balance we need to finetune.

    I speak feeling messages softly and move like I’m moving through jelly. Slowly, softly, thoughtfully.

    Sometimes it’s appropriate to be playful and fiesty! Just not all the time, for me. I think the key is staying in tune to our feelings. If I feel nervous, don’t say it. Speak out of control and femininity.

  297.  #297Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 5:15 pm


    I don’t see this as being fake. I am re-creating myself. I don’t like my past relational skills, so I am refining them. A past therapist said “fake it till you make it.”

    If I’ve been a low wormy type in the past, I don’t want to stay like that. I want to be a butterfly! The first time a butterfly flits her wings, it may not feel “natural” or “me”! But once she is free of her cocoon, she never wants to go back!

    It’s like Rori said in the thread about your squeeky self! Explore! Experiment! We choose who we are going to be.

    All I know is I don’t want to continue the relational style I had in the past. It’s like any new skill — writing, swimming, bike riding, etc. — you have to fall and be a little clumsy before it becomes second nature!

    I’m speaking to myself here, too!

  298.  #298Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    Tinque, Thank you!

  299.  #299Renee on August 30, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    I feel cougar man pulling back and I don’t know whether it’s because he can now tell I care or just because he’s busy and tired. (We stayed up til 4am Saturday playing Rock Star).

    It’s driving me nuts! I feel all neurotic and needy and I’m posting on here to stop myself from sending him some mushy txt message (I already sent him one) and trying to be his anchor, like Rori mentioned in her email today…this is normally the point where I disintegrate in a relationship, so I have got to break this pattern!

    Definitely feeling triggered and afraid and not understanding why men need ‘space’ after spending some really close time with someone. I guess it’s better to spam this blog than dig myself into a hole with a man I’m not even sure is a good man for me (not that it would be better to dig myself into a hole with a man I was sure was wonderful), just saying that I don’t even know how deeply I care for him and yet I’m feeling all panicky like he’s running away from me now that I finally have started to feel something from him.

    I need to work on my false belief that men automatically leave once you start to care for them.

  300.  #300Renee on August 30, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    Breathing in, breathing out…trying to work, trying to distract myself…it’s so hard to feel safe and secure when someone’s pulling away…that takes a lot of self-confidence and I’m not sure I have that much — not in my relationships with men anyway…but I guess that’s why many of us are here — we don’t feel secure with our skills in our relationships with men…doesn’t really make me feel better that others share similar concerns, but it would still feel good to hear your story/advice…

  301.  #301Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 5:44 pm


    Your feeling message for Lucy is excellent!

    I want to follow up on your posts to me a few days ago. I deeply appreciate you trying to understand me and helping me understand you. Thank you.

    I realized after a lot of thot that a lot of past frustration was activated through some of what you said. So for real my frustration shouldn’t have been directed to you, and I’m sorry…will you forgive me?

    Specifically, I mean that a lot of people in my past heard something different than what I meant. I could say, “The sky is blue”, and it seemed like they figuratively heard, “The sky is black.” I was left confused in childhood, because it didn’t seem possible that I was speaking a different language. I didn’t understand at that time that my family had limiting beliefs that kept them from seeing what I was really saying.

    I don’t know if that makes sense, but I just feel at peace now with all you told me, and, again, I really appreciate it that you worked through the conflict.

    How do you feel about that?

  302.  #302Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 5:47 pm


    Try telling yourself a new, fresh story…maybe (?) something like this…

    Cougar Man is crazy about you, and he loves you. He feels the reality of the possibilities hitting him, and suddenly he is scared. He needs to regroup and explore his thoughts alone.

    And the best gift you can give him is missing you…


  303.  #303Jennifer on August 30, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    Vaso Vagal response….whatcha wanna know? Fainting is most often a vaso vagal response.
    Vagas nerve runs down through the body and ends at the ….um back door. Yes?
    If the vagas nerve gets over stimulated it can disrupt heart rythm and blood pressure. This is why we put cardiac patients on stool softners. One good vasovagal and they could be in the next world.
    Does that help?

    Facebook me if you want…I’m on vacation but i check there regulairly

  304.  #304Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    Duz that mean you can swoon when a man touches your pussy? I did once for a moment…the first time Kenny touched mine, while we were kissing! Blew me away!

  305.  #305Renee on August 30, 2010 at 6:50 pm


    Thank you for your response…I made it a point to lean back after his last txt and didn’t reply (he didn’t ask any questions really and it didn’t seem like it required a reply).

    So he wrote and asked me if he was being blown off. I was like, huh? So I told him that no, I wasn’t blowing him off, that to be honest, I had felt a shift in my feelings Saturday and that now I felt fear and asked him what he thought.

    He replied with, “So what does that mean?”…I’m not sure these feeling msgs are working with him…if they don’t, I feel uncertain as to how to communicate with him.

    I not regret telling him that anything was off, though he could sense it. But if he’s just pulling the rubber band trick, I need to be able to be his anchor instead of whining about being afraid…I guess I just thought a feeling message would be a good idea:-/.

  306.  #306Renee on August 30, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    I meant to say I now regret teliing him anything was off.

  307.  #307Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 7:31 pm


    If someone told me they felt fear, I would not know what it was related to. Did you say more along with that? Sounds like you just tripped him into feeling fear, too. How bout something softer like this…

    I feel confused and a little insecure. I feel weird saying this because I don’t want to feel taken for granted, but it would make all of my insecurities go away if I had some reassurance as to where I stand with you. What do you think?

  308.  #308Jilly on August 30, 2010 at 7:33 pm

    Renee…I’m sorry you are feeling that way…I hate that feeling and feel that I have an underlying belief that men lose interest as soon as I turn around and OK..this is what I want too.

    I know it doesn’t make you feel better…with Sailor man there seems to have been multiple times when I’ve felt like he should have been more “into” me even though we are just in the beginning dating stages…and it’s my own insecurities I’ve realized (that get triggered way more than I ever was aware of before!!!) that make me freak out inside. And so far he’s just been being a guy and doing his guy thing and on his own he has reassured me that I’m what he wants and he’s serious.

  309.  #309Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 7:36 pm


    You got it going on! Sounds like you are having a wonderful time with sailor man! Is boss man still in the picture?

  310.  #310Jilly on August 30, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    …I actually sent Sailor a text message last week (I was totally pmsing!) and I said “I feel disconnected” and he replied with “what do you mean”? and I wish I had not even ever said anything and just dealt with my needy feelings by myself..I kind of brushed it off as nothing and he sent me a text the next morning saying he hoped I felt better that day…but I felt disconnected until yesterday almost a week of feeling “off” even though we talk almost everyday and would see each other more but my schedule is CRAZY!!

  311.  #311Jilly on August 30, 2010 at 7:48 pm

    Hey Bren!! thank you! I feel happy…and I’m learning soooo much about myself…

    I have not heard from Boss man????!!!! WTF?? I am holding the anchor!!!! I know he was out of town until today but seriously!!!…no texts????? it’s been exactly one week since we had a conversation

    I know I’ve said it before…but boss man is someone who is a “bad boy” and “sailor” is a man who can do relationship..I don’t feel that boss man can…?

    So I’m contemplating getting commitment blueprint…you love it right?

  312.  #312Jilly on August 30, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    Brenda I love how you typically add something sexual in your posts for that day…it cracks me up! 😉

  313.  #313Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 7:59 pm


    Thanks! Yeah, I love Commitment Blueprint! Rori exceeded my expectations for sure! I was already wowed out enough with Modern Siren!

  314.  #314Lizzie on August 30, 2010 at 8:01 pm

    Hey Brenda – I have 2 dates!! 2 guys with the same name and the same age – too funny. I posted on the other thread.
    I am going to practice….

  315.  #315Lizzie on August 30, 2010 at 8:07 pm

    since I usually just lean in ’til I am flat and row all boats in the fleet, I am going to practice leaning back. I am so looking forward to my practice –
    Tuesday night and Friday night. At least I won’t confuse the names.
    Sigh, I just wish Family Guy would totally step up but I feel he is stretching and needs me to be anchor.

    I am going to be wearing a wire attached to a pretty bra so that I can listen to man #1, check in with the sirens as to the best response…

  316.  #316Megan on August 30, 2010 at 8:07 pm

    Does anyone have any suggestions on how to stop comapring myself to my ex’s ex?
    I remember him telling me once that I was always worried about something and couldn’t just “watch the grass grow”.
    It is true I did often worry but I had every reason to be worried with all I had going on.
    I envied her for being so carefree and not having the responsibilites I had weighing down on me.
    But this is not my fault.
    I used to have this carefree way about me when I was much younger but I also had nothing to worry for then…
    he went on further, expaining (why he liked her so much) “I don’t know, just the way she WAS”
    ouch. these words haunt me.
    they haunt me b/c I’ve seen her and I see what he means yet I can’t put my finger on it or emulate it.
    I soo want to be like her which is not healthy for the self-esteem at all.
    not to mention you can’t live your life emulating someone else, you have to be yourself.
    but I feel like I used to be LIKE her, yet still myself, and maybe I lost it? i’m not sure though.

    *what do you do when you believe deep down that someone IS better than you and you wish you were more like them and less like you?*

    I know the obvious answer is to love yourself but deep down I still feel this way.
    I hope this makes sense to someone.
    Please help!

  317.  #317Brenda on August 30, 2010 at 8:13 pm


    You go, girl! Did you burn up all the NVs? Sounds like it, cuz your space is opening up for good things!!

  318.  #318Jacqueline on August 30, 2010 at 8:15 pm

    Megan…..ouch! Well, first off….feeling messages?

    It felt weird to me that you seemed to be comparing apples and oranges when you brought up your ex.

    Insert either:

    Curious question: what was it about her that excited you….listen to answer at level two….

    I don’t want to feel compared in a negative way to anyone….

    what do you think?

    check all previous blog listings for scripting and feelings messages….

    Daria, you around? She’s the one for this!!!

    Good luck, and stay awhile, okay!


  319.  #319Megan on August 30, 2010 at 8:37 pm


    I feel interested to know what you mean by the apples and oranges analogy-
    like I’m an apple and he’s an orange or
    his ex is an orange and he’s an apple?
    I feel really amused now comparing the people that have caused me so much grief to fruit 🙂

    As for the feeling messages, they sound great but we are not talking and have not talked in a long time.

    In fact I have recently moved (for a yr) to NZ and he is back in the States.
    We had this convo a long time ago but for some reason it has resurfaced in my mind
    – prob b/c I’ve been stewing over the fact that after we split for good he met up with her on campus months later (this after swearing her off)

    the problem is not only that he (I’m judging by his actions) thinks she’s better but, more importantly, that *I* also feel the same way.

    I’ve read older blogs where Rori says to CD, change yourself, etc but I so desperately want to reverse this internal belief that she is better and doing these things only feels like a distraction from it.

    I could, and will, work on loving myself more but I feel like this belief will always be there, almost sabotaging any progress.
    for ex, why am I still comparing myself and feeling lousy??

  320.  #320Jacqueline on August 30, 2010 at 9:04 pm

    apples to oranges – you to her; YOU are not her and don’t wanna be, right?!!!

    For getting over him, our Mary’s (fellow blogger her) has a great book, and I’ve just taken the 10 commandments of a break up and posted on my site –; check it out….I promise it will make you laugh and totally get you back on track to no contact – and Rori would say, put him (and her, sigh)_ on the back of your horse and just move on….very recent post on that – check all of August’s….

    It’s all about the stories we tell ourselves about the break up you know? so….write a new story, or one to yourself loving youself for being you!

    Will check in later, sorry you’re stuck now, but hang around and you will feel better!!!


  321.  #321Daria on August 30, 2010 at 10:01 pm

    Megan – that belief will not always be there as you love yourself more.

    I’ve started to believe that when I feel jealous of someone, i can and WILL HAVE that that I feel jealous of !

    new belief, and its been working great

    jealousy is pointing out things i WANT for myself

    sounds like those parts of you that she reminds you of want attention

  322.  #322Melb(a) Lynne on August 31, 2010 at 2:25 am

    Thanks for your response 🙂
    The dating site/s can def bring up ‘issues’ ‘triggers’ too (as well as this site) … & I’ve found I’ve had to ‘let alot of stuff go’ in terms of ‘expectations’ of ‘how & when guys contact’….
    Re: specif him not phoning over weekend when he said he would, you can either ‘lean back’… (let it go, in your head, & just See What Happens, since you don’t really Care about him?? [& you’re still practicing a RR tool]… he’s obviously not ‘gorgeous’?? haha & lol!!!)..
    or, you have his ph no? or you saying email?, re the feeling message?… whichever, it’s practice of the RR tools as well, & also ‘takes it right up to him’ (in a nice way :-)) & I always like that with a guy… Why Not?? Make him Accountable (in this small/respectful way)?….. Good Practice for Making a Guy Accountable When it Really MATTERS to you….
    What do you think?
    And PS yeah re #288 sounds right on to me!! 🙂

  323.  #323Melb(a) Lynne on August 31, 2010 at 2:41 am

    Whilst I’m on a roll… haha…!!! I have had some difficulty /challenges re the feeling messages… sometimes it doesn’t feel like ME speaking when I rejig my sentence structure like that…
    I think/feel there’s situations where it’s easier to incorporate the messages/way of communicating (like the practice on here).. & maybe it’s ok to talk the way that is YOU ( I also want to Be ME)… whilst adding in occasionally the feeling message, when you can…
    I have though, found them very helpful, but i feel like a bit of a failure generally re them, as I don’t Do it all the time 🙁 … But have had some success when discussing a tense issue with either a friend or my kids & also quite a lot with Guy [Txt Guy] I was seeing for sometime [recently I had to ‘dump him’… just not working for me.. but sad faces alot here 🙁 🙁 …]… Anyway..(!!)… In fact I used it on Saturday to diffuse the anger I felt with a g/f….. & got across my [sad/upset] message without Angering/Alienating her & got her to apologise [without asking for that]….. so thumbs up there !! 🙂 to ME!!
    Feeling messages… yeah…. maybe, just try a bit at a time… & in ways that feel like it’s you… & see how that goes for you? …. does that make sense… ?
    Let me know what you think… I Mean FEEL!! haha & lol!! 🙂

  324.  #324Melb(a) Lynne on August 31, 2010 at 2:45 am

    Thanks Jacqueline
    I just checked your site… the 10 commandments…
    Putting them in place right now………. 🙁
    Oh that was meant to be a smiley face 🙂 cos I’m now… getting along with me…
    And not ‘worrying about’ him…
    All be Goooood Soooon ….
    Hugs back

  325.  #325BarbinOz on August 31, 2010 at 3:12 am

    Thanks Lynne, I am not sure why I FEEL so uncomfortable talking in this way, but I KNOW it’s something I have to learn or else I will end up with another year of heartbreak!!

    Brenda, I hear you!! I liked the way you said softer and gentler talking to Renee, maybe that’s my lesson for the night, instead of being a smart a$$ wisecracker LOL!! And when you talk about faking it until you make it, of course I am talking about myself and how I FEEL fake…….

    Lynne, I never thought of using these FEELING words with anybody other than “men” I will try and remember the next time my kids and I are having difficulties….

    Tinque, not sure if I will emailing any of the 3 CD’ers as I am not bothered and to be honest I do FEEL a sense of relief, maybe it would have been too much hard work leaning back, and talking about ME ME ME when I am not even interested in THEM!

    Wow, that’s a lot of FEELS in this blog/riff/raff, whatever you call it!!

    OK I am off to read Jacqueline’s site and hopefully learn even more than I have these past few weeks……:D

  326.  #326BarbinOz on August 31, 2010 at 3:48 am

    MMm found out I did not like Athol Guys post on Jacqueline’s site, not sure why really, I just found him a little smug and self satisfied sorry if this offends anybody….

  327.  #327Renee on August 31, 2010 at 3:58 am

    Megan — Some expert, I don’t remember who, once told me that if there are times you feel unsure as to how you should act or you typically behave in a way you regret, think of what your “idol” would do in that situation and emulate them. In other words, “fake it til you make it”, like Brenda said earlier.

    So if you really wish you were more like this woman, embrace what it is that you like and emulate that behavior until it’s natural for you — the carefree, being-present-in-the-here-and-now attitude. This used to help me when I started doing seminars years ago. I was the seminar leader and while I had some experience speaking in public, this was the “Renee Show” — all Renee, all the time, lol, and I felt a little uncomfortable and unsure being the focus of so much attention. So I thought of one of my idols from my previous career as a journalist, Diane Sawyer, and thought about how she would act and it really helpe me modify my behavior — even though I still sometimes felt unsure, I came across as calm and ladylike, exactly what I was going for.

    Of course, Rori also has some tools she advocates using to get you more present in the present. Things like just noticing the table you’re sitting at and feeling it…thinking about how it feels and how it looks…focusing on physically leaning back and just breathing in and breathing out…all these types of things tend to refocus your attention to where you are right now instead of letting your mind wander to all your worries and concerns (I can be a worry wart too and I’m working hard to live more in the present). Focus on level 2 listening when someone’s talking, which means not thinking about what you’re going to say next or again, letting your mind wander, but really focusing on what someone’s saying. Not only will the other person really appreciate it, but it’s another tool that helps you be in the present.

    Those are some ideas for you…instead of feeling annoyed with this woman because you think she’s somehow better than you (she’s not — there are undoubtedly many things you’re better at than she is), take the opportunity to emulate the things you like about her and learn from this situation to help you become your best self. What do you think?

  328.  #328Renee on August 31, 2010 at 4:24 am

    Jilly — Thank you for sharing your similar belief. I’ve done enough self-reflection these past 2 months to realize that it’s this belief that has been the most damaging to my relationships and I’m really struggling to lay it to rest.

    It’s very early in my relationship with cougar man too, but we’ve been spending a lot of time together and had a pretty emotional Saturday night this weekend. Rori’s email about the rubber band and the anchor came at just the right time for me…I’m still struggling with this, but I’m trying to replace my belief that men leave as soon as I start to care with men need time to regroup after some really close time with a woman and that all I need to do to get this back on track is to lean back and be the anchor. My new mantra is, “be the anchor, be the anchor”…:-).

    It sounds like overall, things are going well with sailor man…do you think you’ll be able to see him soon?

  329.  #329Megan on August 31, 2010 at 4:55 am

    very tired but just wanted to touch base –
    -will get on tomorrow after I’ve mulled things over more.

    Renee and Daria – love it.
    Daria, ESP love what you said about those parts in me wanting attn. this means I AM like her and perhaps why I feel this way towards her – b/c she reminds me of someone I once knew…ME!?
    I LOVE your view on jealousy-
    way to turn such an otherwise “ugly” emotion and make it useful! this feels brilliant.

    thank you for your kind words and the site.
    hugs out to you.
    Let me make this clear: your intentions were absolutely heart-felt and positive and your advice spot-on
    but unfortuantely I did not follow these guidelines months ago and so reading them caused a lot of triggers, esp rule #9.
    Again, THANK YOU. I only wish I had seen/followed them at the time when I needed them most.
    it’s the consequences of my actions that I am dealing with now.
    i feel afraid of offending or coming across wrong so I will write more tomorrow, after working thru all the triggers.
    I felt really MAD and helpless after reading these.
    but that’s okay! now I get to investigate myself.
    i love my anger and my shock and my trouble learning to accept.
    love to all you ladies.
    thank you for being here <3

  330.  #330Renee on August 31, 2010 at 5:44 am

    Jaqueline (or anyone who knows it) — what is the address of your blog? I’m really interested in reading your 10 commandments:-).

  331.  #331Jilly on August 31, 2010 at 5:59 am

    Renee…Rori’s email came at the right time for me too!

    And I just spent all day in bed with Sailor man yesterday…YUM! 😉 (I took the day off work and so did he) and possibly we will see each other wednesday night too…just depends on if I’m working or not…and he’s asked me to go on a sailing trip at the end of september 🙂 to San Diego….

    So yes things are going great…and I’m learning that it’s ok to get triggered but I really hate it! lol

  332.  #332Jilly on August 31, 2010 at 6:06 am

    but before yesterday it had been over a week and then it was only for a few hours (I met his kids so there wasn’t any him and I time) and then another whole week…so it had felt like a long time since we’d spent quality time together…

  333.  #333Renee on August 31, 2010 at 6:36 am

    Jilly — Sounds like things are going well, but you said there have been times when you’ve felt like he was backing off? How long did they last? What did you do during those times?

    I’m definitely getting the feeling that cougar man has backed off a little…I guess continuing to be in full pursuit mode after 3 weeks is unsustainable, but I sure liked it better when he was in full pursuit mode. It feels like between Sunday afternoon and Sunday night or something he just got tired of me…I’m probably projecting because he was really just plain tired (most of the times we’ve been getting together we’ve stayed up really late), but it just feels like something’s “off”…we txted back and forth a little last night after I gave him my feeling msg about my feelings having shifted Saturday and now feeling afraid, but it didn’t seem to bond us any more the way it was supposed to…in response to my “I feel afraid” message, I expected him to either ask what I was afraid of or say there’s nothing to be afraid of honey or something like that. Instead, he just asked, “What does that mean?”.

    He txted me this morning to say good morning, but it still doesn’t feel like he’s as crazy for me as he was 2 days ago…and I honestly can’t think of anything that happened prior to last night to change his mind, so I don’t know what’s going on. I’m just going to try to be that darned anchor though and see how it works.

    After his message this morning, I responded with an especially chipper reply and it made me think of Rori talking about stuffing down your feelings by being overly nice…I just didn’t want him to think I was Debbie Downer this morning, you know?

  334.  #334dorothea on August 31, 2010 at 7:45 am

    woah…renee…something strikes me as odd here.
    he is texting you, asking u what u mean by you feel afraid, and he is greeting you good morning…
    and you are stuck on the quality of his responses being not “into” you enough.
    seems to me like he’s trying to keep you engaged, even if he is a little worn out.

    me in me my boy hat, i think you’re reading too far into sh*t, and need to relax and focus on you, and quit trippin.

  335.  #335Renee on August 31, 2010 at 8:07 am

    Hi Dorothea — It’s little things that I’ve noticed the past 24 hours…like he usually calls me baby or honey or sweetie and he hasn’t been doing that. And, to be honest, when we had sex Sunday night, even though he initiated it, it was obvious to me he wasn’t that into it, whereas that morning, he’d been all gung ho and made a remark that afternoon about how great it was.

    What’s puzzling to me is that he was bound to be the most exhausted Sunday morning/afternoon, when he was still behaving like normal, but he’s now had 2 nights of good sleep and it’s now that he’s not acting like “himself” (that being the guy who was chasing me down the street and begging me to be exclusive).

    If I were having pms or something, I would definitely agree that it could all be in my head, but it just “feels” different right now. Another thing — last week when he flew out to go to the car auction, he was txting me sweet things all day to the point where it was almost getting on my nerves. Today, he’s again at the auction, and he has txted me, but nothing like last time.

    I’m feeling more centered since I got a good night’s sleep, but no, things are definitely different…I just don’t know what it is. I’m assuming it’s just the rubberband thing, but I have no way of knowing…right now I’m heading to the gym and going to get some work done this afternoon, so hopefully that will boost my spirits even more and give me the energy I need to play around on Match/eH and talk to some other guys.

  336.  #336dorothea on August 31, 2010 at 8:14 am

    hey renee,
    thanks for clarifying a bit more so i can understand your situation better. i think what’s been feeling weird to me about hearing you talk about him is that there’s a lot of talk about what HE is doing, what HE might be thinking, what HE said, what HE did. it makes me feel protective…i want to hear about how you feel.

  337.  #337Renee on August 31, 2010 at 8:14 am

    Here’s the other thing I just discovered…he wasn’t checking his profile at all the past week and he checked it yesterday…I have knots in my stomach now….

  338.  #338Renee on August 31, 2010 at 8:16 am

    Dorothea — I feel unwanted, undeserving, like I somehow took something that was snowballing into something that might have been special and turned it into crap and I don’t even know what’s going on. I feel disappointed that I had started to get my hopes up and now they’re dashed. I feel hurt.

  339.  #339Brenda on August 31, 2010 at 8:31 am


    Dorothea said, “me in me my boy hat, i think you’re reading too far into sh*t, and need to relax and focus on you, and quit trippin.”

    I agree. I relate to you a lot because I tend to believe a man doesn’t like me at the slightest sign when most of the time he does.

  340.  #340Brenda on August 31, 2010 at 8:34 am


    I encourage you to keep being a soft invitation to him. If he asks, “What does that mean?” I hear him asking why are you afraid? It was his way of asking it. Ryan asked me, “What do you mean?” all the time. I took it as he is interested and cares what I think and feel, so I told him.

    Just keep giving him feeling messages one or two at a time. Rori says in her program that it’s all right to tell him you feel insecure and ask for reassurance.

  341.  #341dorothea on August 31, 2010 at 8:43 am

    gotta love that a-ha moment when a guy, with whom you were repeatedly pretty clear to about not wanting to go for something serious, actually does what you told them you wanted or stops pining behavior that annoyed you…renee likes a boyyyy, neener neener neener, she thinks he’s shiny and sparkly la la la

    😀 I like the anchor thing. I wish I had known about it when i was in your situation. Things would have felt more peaceful with it.

  342.  #342Brenda on August 31, 2010 at 9:21 am


    LOLOLOL! I think you are so funny!!! Neener, neener, neener! Haha! I was thinking the same thing. Just weren’t gonna say it! 😛

  343.  #343Renee on August 31, 2010 at 9:48 am

    Dorothea — I get what you’re saying about my telling him I didn’t want to get exclusive with him throughout this whole thing and not really being that into him until now. But that’s where this whole thing is annoying and that’s that I told him my feelings had changed and when I started crying over a certain song Saturday night, I told him I was confused and scared and he hugged me and said it was ok, but that he was glad to see me crying because that meant I was getting attached. So he knew the rules of the game had changed for me and he chooses this time to go off and wander in his own “space”?

    He has every right to do whatever he wants to do, but I can’t say that I’ll still be here when/if he starts showing real interest again…I’ll end up talking myself out of liking him for all the things I was judging him for in the first place. And I’ll have to seriously amp up my online dating again, which he’s been mostly distracting me from lately…ugh. I’m kind of tired of it at this point, but I can do it if I have to.

    I guess at least I’m not reacting as badly to the whole “space” thing as I have in the past…I mean, inside, I’m still really annoyed, but I haven’t acted on this annoyance to any large degree (like chasing him or chewing him out or something like that). At least that’s progress (I hope).

  344.  #344Simply Shannon on August 31, 2010 at 9:59 am

    I feel freaked out. I feel angry. I feel afraid.

    Ladies, this thing that happened with Mr. Fab Kisser is so reminiscent of the cheating that happened with my ex and with A. I don’t know what to do. He just went out on a date with someone else over the weekend. He says it was just to eat and talk. He met this person back when I was on my man-fast (also didn’t tell me about meeting anyone but I never asked).

    I feel like my boundary has been crossed. Why didn’t he tell me beforehand that he was going out with someone? I know we’re not exclusive but he led me to believe he wouldn’t be going out with anyone else while he dated me. I just feel stunned and betrayed. I don’t know if how I’m feeling is really about this situation or about my past coming up to bit me in the a$$.

    I want to run away. I want to tell him to go eff himself. I feel angry.

    Any clue here? My rational brain says he didn’t do anything wrong. My real brain says he went out with someone else, didn’t tell me about it until I asked, I have no idea how long he’s been talking to this person, and he could have done gosh-knows-what on that date. Ahhhhh! And he did it right when I’m talking about having sex with him again. WTF???

    Help. I value feedback here. Drop him like a hot potato or talk to him? My brain says run. Talk me off the mountain here. What would a siren/rockstar do?

  345.  #345Lizzie on August 31, 2010 at 9:59 am

    how do you know these things????? how do you know someone is checking their eH or match accounts??? what is with that?? first of all, how do you know these things – like how?

    So, you are telling us you can check who is checking on these dating sites???? man that is scary….then does that mean, they can check that you are checking on them checking????

  346.  #346Renee on August 31, 2010 at 10:00 am

    Brenda — I will work on remaining an invitation. The hardest thing is not to lean forward, but I’m really trying.

    Maybe you’re right about his asking, “what do you mean”…I took it to mean that he was asking, “so what does that mean for our relationship?”

    When we were txting back and forth last night, he asked me at one point if I wanted to “chill out” for a while, I replied, “No, not at all. I was just sharing my feelings with you. Is that what you want — to chill out for a while?” To which he replied, “I didn’t say that”, which is car salesman doublespeak for “that’s not exactly what I said but that’s what I was thinking.”

    I told him I felt there was some distance there yesterday and I didn’t know what to make of that and he replied with, “No distance. Just my end of the month is nuts.” So I dropped and and said, “OK. Well have a great night’s sleep, sweetie and a great flight tomorrow.” He wished me the same and said goodnight, but the whole conversation left me unsettled…Saturday night, he’d been there to hug me and tell me it would be ok. Yesterday, he didn’t react the same way at all…like I said, distance.

    I am an anchor, I am an anchor….

  347.  #347dorothea on August 31, 2010 at 10:02 am

    renee, that is totally progress. i would feel way proud of myself if i were you

  348.  #348Lizzie on August 31, 2010 at 10:02 am

    SS, lean back!

    Alrightie, it feels like evil gut wrenching betrayal…so awful.

  349.  #349Lizzie on August 31, 2010 at 10:04 am

    SS – in your lean-back moment, consider that he may be being honest with you.

  350.  #350Renee on August 31, 2010 at 10:05 am

    Lizzie — You can tell if someone has been active on Match within the past 24 hours or is currently logged in because it says so right by their name. On eHarmony, you can only tell if someone has looked at your profile, but that’s not reliable because you can change your settings so that when you view someone’s profile, it shows up as an “anonymous” view.

    I don’t know if he logged in and wrote someone or replied to an email or what, but he had to have been active in some regard and he didn’t look at my profile (you can see who’s viewed your profile by clicking “profile” “see who’s viewed me”).

    Are you using those sites?

  351.  #351Lizzie on August 31, 2010 at 10:11 am

    SS, in your next lean-back moment, consider having a heart-to-heart conversation. From my view, which is sadly lacking of much detail and perspective, and although I am personally deeply possessive, I would wish to know a few things with the man – does he see you presently as someone with whom he would like to get to know on the journey to building a relationship? Or, has he already determined that there is no long term future. Interestingly, I tend to subscribe to the thinking that we arrive at saying “no – there is no future” and otherwise continue to be open – without comming to closure on the question of the future, until we are asked to be married. So to me the question is, are we open, or have we/he/I arrived at the place that says there is no future here? I am not sure I am making sense…
    and I need to go to a meeting, I don’t feel I have been helpful for you. Just don’t blow him off yet. Others here will provide perspective.

  352.  #352Simply Shannon on August 31, 2010 at 10:14 am

    He is being honest now, but why not tell me first? I don’t know if it would make much difference though if he told me beforehand. I’d still feel betrayed. We’ve been seeing each other for about 9 months. He wants to be exclusive with me (or he did) and I’ve been pushing back. Not feeling sure about things. Instead of picking up the slack and leaning super forward, he’s pulled back.

    I can kind of understand that. Why keep asking me out when I keep saying I feel unsure?

    What to do, what to do. I don’t really know what I want.

    No, I want someone coming at me full forward and he’s not. Blech.

    And now he’s dating someone else. right when I start feeling vulnerable and considering that we’ll have sex again, he dates someone else.

    This feels awful. I feel betrayed and cheated on. EFF THIS.

    Okay, so let’s try being a rockstar, shall we shannon.

    I don’t want to do this. I don’t want to feel second best or feel betrayed. I want to feel protected and safe and pursued.

    All totally negative feelings. I don’t feel rockstar. Shit.

  353.  #353Lizzie on August 31, 2010 at 10:14 am

    Renee – OH! I am currently on eH; canceled myself off of all others. I really don’t like the idea that people can find out if I have been on-line etc. I feel yucky stalker yuck blah ugh – I will need to make sure no one sees me – stelth…yes stelth stalker

  354.  #354dorothea on August 31, 2010 at 11:06 am

    tenley on bachelor pad freaks me out. she is so imaginary relationship girl. i feel triggered and yucky

  355.  #355Brenda on August 31, 2010 at 11:44 am


    I really think what you are feeling is coming from inside of you, not from him. If it IS coming from him, it is possible that HE is scared, seeing that your relationship is becoming real. It isn’t something to get annoyed about.

    It is a time to acknowledge that many men can’t handle emotional depth. I recommend Christian Carter’s “Inside the Mind of a Man”. He explains what is going on with a man while a relationship is developing. I got a lot of insight out of it.

    He often withdraws when it gets hot and heavy. It’s a time to be understanding and give him space.

  356.  #356Lucy on August 31, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    Hi Shannon. (((HUG))) I don’t really know what to say, but I feel bad that you’re feeling bad. 🙁

    In my experience, some guys start to back off when they keep getting the message that I’m unsure or they can tell I’m not really into them that much. One guy canceled a second date because he said he could tell I wasn’t really interested in him. (And then there’s 25, who won’t take No for an answer!) They want to be wanted just like we do, and I’m guessing it feels bad to have a woman be wishy-washy about them. What do you think?

    The other thing is, I’ve heard you saying on here for a long time that he’s not really a good fit for you. (That’s what *I* hear in what you say anyway.) But for some reason you keep on with him…. Is it possible that you have been unconsciously trying to create a scenario that feels similar to being cheated on in your marriage? If so, this could be a real turning point for you — to finally let go of that story that men always cheat on you — and then begin to create a relationship with a man that is totally different from what you’ve had before. What do you think?

    I could be totally off, but those are the thoughts that came to mind.

    I love you, sister siren, and am praying for you.


  357.  #357Lucy on August 31, 2010 at 3:07 pm


    “One of the biggest secrets that most women don’t understand is that a man who has difficulty with commitment is

    also a man that is afraid of being abandoned.”

    Source: Bob Grant, L.P.C.

  358.  #358Laughing goddess on August 31, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    Ooooo Shannon. I feel your pain and frustration. I feel unsure of what to say except that we’re here for you and also seconding (is that a word?) what Lucy said above.

    Love you! You ARE a rockstar.

    Also, maybe it’s nothing. Guys naturally CD. Maybe he’s just trying to get over you cuz he’s getting the message you’re not really interested. Also it feels cool to me that he’s being honest.

    Not saying that to minimize your feelings though. I totally understand why you would feel upset.

  359.  #359Laughing goddess on August 31, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    Brenda: thanks for the kind words!

    I’m not feeling very talkative right now. Trying to get all my ducks in a row for my upcoming trip and feeling a little preoccupied.

    But yes, thanks for the kind words. It felt good to hear.

  360.  #360Terry on August 31, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    SS, I feel so sad that you’re hurting. I don’t have any input on your situation (my brain feels like mush right now), but I do want to offer (((((hugs))))) to you. You were so kind to me last Friday when I was having my riffing sessions.

    Something definitely feels “off” to you in this relationship. Maybe just sit with that and do nothing?
    Easier said than done, I know. My brain wants to work overtime. I’m learning how to stay with my feelings. Soooo hard for me.

    A glass of wine would feel good to me tonight. I will raise my glass to you and offer you a prayer, too.

  361.  #361Rori Raye on August 31, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    Ocean – you can give up if you want – and sometimes that’s the best way to go. Just give it up. I can only tell you that every single day I meet at least 10 men out in the world who would “do” for me. The attraction is something you have to find – and speaking the truth in a new way will change so much for you…Love, Rori

  362.  #362Ocean on August 31, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    Hi Rori, thanks for the reply. I’m curious, what would “speaking the truth in a new way” look like? Because I’m open to new ways of thinking about this stuff. My post was more about how I’m feeling hopeless regarding what I see as a lack of quality men, than of really wanting to give up.

    Not that I pretend to know anything about your daily life, but I wonder how you’d know that those 10 men a day would “do” for you, since you just met them. Also, you’re attached, so you may not be assessing them in the same way a single woman would, right?

    I don’t meet 10 men a YEAR who would do for me, and I go out and meet men 2 or 3 times a week. I’d like to at least feel there was a point to dating up a storm, but typically I don’t feel good with my dates, because they aren’t what I consider quality men, and I don’t feel interested, so it’s become something I don’t look forward to or feel excited about right now.

    That’s how I feel. You invited us to come here and share, so I did. This is a real concern for me, but if this isn’t the place to express such concerns, just let me know.

  363.  #363Jacqueline on August 31, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    LG – is your arm all better?!

    Dorothea – hiya!! I’m baaaack!


  364.  #364Brenda on August 31, 2010 at 8:41 pm

    Hi Ocean,

    Welcome! Wow, do I relate to you! I have been in times of my life where I felt hopeless about meeting a man who would excite me and interest me. I am currently not feeling that way too much because there are two men in my life who really are attractive to me.

    But wow, do I ever relate about how empty sex is without love and romance along with it. And I relate about meeting loser men who just want cheap sex and won’t commit because their goal was never marriage, but sex. Who wants to buy the whole ice cream cart when they’re giving out popsicles for free?

    What I did was took a year off from dating in 2008 while I decided if I ever wanted to date again. I felt thoroughly disgusted by men at that time of my life. I believe the year off was healthy for me. I focused on my wants and needs, and I was able to be objective about what I really valued in life.

    My conclusion was that I still want to be a wife, but only with a man who I can be exclusive with and be truly in love, and leave cheap sex behind.

    What do you think about letting men go for a time, and then re-evaluate?


  365.  #365Brenda on August 31, 2010 at 8:45 pm


    I think we have extra high standards…I agree…I rarely find men who are attractive to me. My standards are higher than they’ve ever been, and I want a man who is kind and loving like Je*sus. I feel really good about that.

    I am concluding that men on dating sites are mostly the bottom of the barrel. I am going out more and more to places where quality men hang out. For me, as a Christian, that is churches. So I am going to as many church meetings as I can at as many churches as I can, in order to meet a variety of men. I am just about through with meeting men online.

    What are your values? Who is your ideal man? Where would he hang out in his spare time?

  366.  #366Daria on August 31, 2010 at 8:49 pm

    I have found the more I used the tools and opened up to every man, especially men i did not find attractive… i found More men attractive, and attracted them more!



    the attractive man magnet… they’re everywhere

  367.  #367Daria on August 31, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    Wild and healthy

  368.  #368Daria on August 31, 2010 at 8:52 pm

    yes yes yes

    i got reincarnated as one of the prettiest women on the planet

  369.  #369Daria on August 31, 2010 at 8:59 pm

    it feels thrilling

    and i feel guilty…and unworthy

    why tell myself that

    am i one of those people with low self esteem that brags a lot?

    i feel quicker heartbeat, squeeze


    yesyes yes my hormones

    i still gotta do my exercises

  370.  #370Brenda on August 31, 2010 at 9:38 pm


    I tend to be a nerd magnet cuz I’m too nice. I continue to be nice, but I rarely feel attracted to a man. And it’s your fault that Drew Barrymore is going to be on Jimmy Fallon, because that means I gotta stay up even later. You planned that, didn’t you, because you wanted a drinking buddy! You got a blunt?

  371.  #371Brenda on August 31, 2010 at 9:41 pm


    You don’t need to be reincarnated as a beautiful woman. You already are!

    I want to lose weight and feel pretty again.

    But I am being my best self overweight. I wore this cool outfit today with a lavender tank top under a cotton purple, white, and lavendar shirt fitted around my titties with a tie in back, gathers under my titties. And the necks of the shirts match perfectly, as if they were made to go together. I wore it to flirt with Bill and the stinker didn’t even say hi to me today.

    I want to whine and mope, but I am choosing to tell myself the story that he was busy or not feeling well or was giving me the gift of missing him, because I did.

  372.  #372Daria on August 31, 2010 at 9:59 pm

    Thanks Brenda. I know I meant I already am reincarnated as that… But I feel afraid and like I look ” bad” and ugly saying that. Like that exposes me for being vain and competitive and not nice and kind to other people and cd said I was self centered and I’m practicing being self centered but I still feel unsure about it. Maybe I don’t deserve it u’s that it maybe it doesn’t feel good. Oh. Why

  373.  #373Daria on August 31, 2010 at 10:01 pm

    Brenda – I feel smily reading ur outfit and admiring. Purple is my fave… Ohhh how storytale like

  374.  #374Daria on August 31, 2010 at 10:04 pm

    I just did my ladybug workout it’s kinda like laying on my back like a ladybug fallen over with her legs all around.

  375.  #375Daria on August 31, 2010 at 10:07 pm

    The man from last nite called but didn’t leave a message… Maybe he’ll call again? I am having company

  376.  #376ocean on August 31, 2010 at 10:15 pm


    Awesome, thanks for the feedback. Very helpful in my sorting this stuff out. Yes, to taking time off. Over the past few days I’ve been considering it, even though I have 3 months membership left on one of the dating sites I’m on (the other one is free, so..). I’m considering maybe agreeing to dates less often, and only with men who I feel excited about, should they appear. Yeah, I’d think church activities would be an excellent way to meet men who align with your values. I’ve been thinking I could figure out ways to meet men who I relate to more by looking for… I don’t know, some kinds of groups centered on the things I’m interested in. I like somewhat intellectual, maybe creative men, who can lead in the dating realm, who just plain turn me on without reservation (well, maybe a few small ones would be alright, heh). If I have an ideal it would be someone like that. The question of where he might hang out is a great one, and I’m gonna really think about it, and see what I come up with. I’ll keep you posted. I’m just not sure how to go about that part yet, but the men I meet in my daily life aren’t typically kindred spirits, so I’ve gotta figure out where they are.

    To answer your question about values: Among them, good character, including having respect for people, for women, for himself; a willingness to be self-aware, to be kind, to have an open mind. To have some sense of ideals aside from the almighty dollar. To value getting to know me over early sex. And to ultimately want marriage for himself (I never ask or anything, this it the type of thing they reveal in the course of the conversation, and usually pretty early.) Also, good spelling is nice ( joking – sort of. The bad spelling one encounters on dating sites seems to make spelling important in dating all of a sudden.) I also, like many, want to feel physically attracted, and, gosh I don’t know how to say this but.. most of the guys I’ve met online fall short, and don’t compensate for it with charm, wit, or intelligence, or anything else engaging. That’s why it feels like the bottom of the barrel, because it’s like, OK, I came out to meet this guy who is no Adonis or whatever, hoping he has some abilities to engage me, but no. Nothing there. Then to top it off, they all want to see me again, but didn’t take the trouble to walk me to my car, or refuse my offer to contribute to paying the bill (even though I didn’t initiate the date), or didn’t take the trouble to pronounce my name correctly, etc. Attraction killer stuff. Usually, I go out to meet a new guy from a neutral place attraction-wise, and in the experience of the date, the attraction slides down the scale, not up. And that’s disheartening enough for me to feel like saying ‘no, thank you’ to another date.

    Anyway, thanks for the wonderful food for thought. I’ll be checking back 🙂

  377.  #377amy on September 1, 2010 at 12:50 am

    Thanks Rori. Its already 2 months and no sign of him. No matter how much of praying or hoping is going to bring the person back. If he wants to come back he will know when but if not, its his choice. I have learnt to accept this is the screwed up path that I have to endure (this is not the 4th breakup) so I got to just pick up myself again. Nevertheless, the choice is not in my hands:-) No matter how much people say, if you wish hard for it things will come your way eventually but I learnt to give up on such wishful thoughts.

  378.  #378BarbinOz on September 1, 2010 at 2:52 am

    Ocean and Brenda, oh yes the dating sites, I am sooo over them AGAIN, this is possibly my 3rd attempt, maybe 4th and aside from MM who has disappeared once again into the desert there is not one damn man on there who interests me in any way.

    I have not had one phone call from the 3 CD’ers and thats OK because I didn’t feel attracted to any of them anyway.

    Rori must be socialising in very different circles to me, because as Ocean says I can’t even see 10 quality men a year let alone every day!!

    Am I picky? Probably, I refuse to “settle” and if that means being on my own forever, so be it…..

    FEELING a little bit down tonight, there was me thinking I was some kind of sexy, smart Diva/Goddess/Siren and once again its another night in front of the telly/laptop and a glass of wine……ho hum….

  379.  #379BarbinOz on September 1, 2010 at 3:43 am

    My girlfriend just called me and we got to talking about the usual…….right that is MEN, I bet they don’t have endless conversations about us…..anyways she asked me about MM and had I heard from him and I told here about his “get a cat” remark the other night and how I emailed him some smart a$$ reply about not liking pussies……blush…and I have never heard from him since, she reckons he is just another a$$hole and I should forget him and move on (this from a woman who has been stuck in a on/off thingie for the past 10 years) anyway I digress (and riff!!) she has brought out these feelings of anger for me about MM, about how he said all this sweeping you off your feet marriage thingie at the beginning, I can’t wait to see your lovely face, I want to marry you and how will you feel living in America as my wife, do you want to come on a cruise with me next year, wait for me I am the man you are looking for which soon turned into “We can still be friends”…….so ladies I am sooooooo pissed off tonight do I just never contact him again? Do I send him ANOTHER email telling him in a FEELING way I am pissed off at the cat remark? Or do I just let the whole thing go and hope he comes back into my life? I hate to feel this vulnerable on here but I know I have to let my TRUE FEEELINGS surface, I was amused when he wrote me the cat thing yesterday because as an “observer” I can see how I yes ME turned him into the prize but now I am just p***ed off LOL!!

  380.  #380BarbinOz on September 1, 2010 at 4:03 am

    MM, I wrote you that email last night in my usual defensive mode and that is what I do when I feel p***ed off, but today I feel so angry about the “get a cat “remark, I just feel I had to let you know.

    What do you think ladies, is this leaning forward?

    I want to say, you are not the freaking prize that is MOI you silly git LOL!!!

  381.  #381BarbinOz on September 1, 2010 at 4:09 am

    I have just realised that I suppress my FEELINGS until something triggers it off like my g/f tonight………

  382.  #382BarbinOz on September 1, 2010 at 4:19 am

    I AM REALLY REALLY angry right now……..I feel like Daria where I can just let it all hang out and be there and be scared and be soooo bloody ANGRY that some man can play with my emotions and how BLOODY dare he and me being soooo meek and mild say NOTHING!!!!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

  383.  #383Brenda on September 1, 2010 at 5:47 am

    Hi Ocean,

    Those things are turnoffs to me, too. We discuss paying a lot on this blog, and it’s a consensus that the man should pay. On the other hand, Sometimes on a first date I overlook things that aren’t too impressive in case he’s nervous. I try to give a man three chances. But these days I’m not even getting past the first date, or even to it. I have had needy losers who just want sex and affection.

    I am so puked out by that these days, because I want a man to take the time to get to know my mind, heart, and spirit. If he isn’t aware that there is more to me than two titties and a pussy, then I’m not interested.

    If you are intellectual and value men who know how to spell (so do I), maybe a place like Barnes & Noble or Borders bookstore? Or a library? Or seminars for the public at a college?

    Above all, Rori encourages us to just BE out there in public. If we stay home every night, it isn’t very likely we will meet someone.

    I like to feel the vibe of a man, and that’s something you can’t really get on a profile and rarely on the phone. I am more and more leaning toward writing off the dating sites, altho I am not doing that yet. But I am just expecting to meet a man in person, live. It feels better cuz it’s natural and I am so sick of blind dates. No wonder I don’t get excited much anymore.

  384.  #384BarbinOz on September 1, 2010 at 6:20 am

    Brenda #390 I hear you…….and so agree, my excitement factor at dating sites is practically zero……..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  385.  #385AmberS on September 1, 2010 at 7:39 am


    I feel totally thrown by your frustration with this MM. I know you are in the situation and that you are feeling very PO’d.

    From where I sit it looks like this,

    He liked me. I liked him. I overfunctioned. He pulled back. I was an invitation. He responded with something that could have meant anything (personally I thought it was cute, like saying get a cat to keep you company until I’m there). I responded being a smart a$$.

    And now I want him to respond back.

    But what if he’s out on maneuvers? or in one of the endless training or “coping” courses?

    What if I let myself be angry until whatever was under the anger came out?

    What if this is about me, and not him?

    I don’t want to sound harsh. I understand you are angry. I feel angry too when I don’t get what I want, when I want it.


    If what I *really* want is for him to lead me across my bridge and into marriage, does being angry and pushing him away now bring me closer to that?

    Maybe the distance is a gift, enabling me to work on being in love with myself completely, so that when he does show up he simply can not resist loving me too.

    I remember Rori saying it’s okay or good to feel everything, but that we don’t need to SHARE all of those feelings. She also talks about how a man doesn’t exist for us unless he is right in front of us.

    This is how it looks to me…

  386.  #386BarbinOz on September 1, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    Amber #391,

    Wow wow wow, thank you sooo much, yes I understand what you are saying completely, and you know maybe I am reacting to my friend not so much to MM, like she was pissed off then I thought she was right and I was wrong, that I SHOULD be pissed off when I wasn’t really, and yes he could be out there doing stuff and then I feel guilty for being angry at this man who is out deploying troops and all that stuff in that terrible heat of 45 degrees plus and I am sitting here in my nice cool apartment……..

    Maybe my anger is at myself for stuffing things up AGAIN, turning around a man who is sooo into me into friends……like my girlfriend made me think he was an a$$hole for his remark and yet I had found it cute too until then, maybe this is about me and her, about me and other people and I don’t want them to think I am an idiot or a doormat type and I am finding it very hard to lean back and STOP overfunctioning but I know I need to learn how to get out of this automatic rapid fire reaction I do sooo well.

    I haven’t heard about the leading over the bridge to marriage thing but I REALLY REALLY like that analogy 😀

    Yes I do need to learn to love myself more and I am working on that being a little flirty and making eye contact with men more instead of looking at the floor and I have noticed men looking at me more already, or maybe they always were but I couldn’t see it before with my eyes cast downwards?

    And yesterday I was dancing around to Motown on the radio when I was getting ready for work and I looked in the mirror and told myself I was a gorgeous Goddess/Diva/Siren and I started laughing because I felt all juicy with good feelings.

    Amber my biggest gift has been coming on here and seeing your post to me and I do think you have hit the nail on the head, and maybe he has lots of dates lined up for when he gets back to Australia and my friend said the “marriage talk” might just be his MO, but you know he is a 56 year old man not a teenager and anyway that doesn’t matter because I AM the one who will be getting the much longed for ring 😀

    Of course he is NOT in front of me, and maybe I will decide, No you are not the man for me after all because I now have so much choice and we haven’t even met yet and maybe there will be no spark at all, he told me before the friends thing that he was so nervous about meeting me he would have to have 10 cups of Java first………see how I turned it around, Rori’s book was like a flash of lightening moment and awakening for me!!

    Thank you soooo much again Amber and have a fantastic day you sexy, wise Siren sister you 🙂

  387.  #387AmberS on September 2, 2010 at 11:00 am


    Thank you! I feel so happy!. I’m just parroting Rori on this. I’m doing the long distance thing right now and it’s been a blessing in disguise. You took this in the same direction I was headed in my head. I’m actually angry about things like – the time I spent in a bad marriage and the way I feel about how this happened to me in the past. You are a BRILLIANT woman. You just backed up 20 paces and did a big picture thing that rocked!

    Amy F posted on the Happiness & Love thread #151. To me, this is what the whole enchilada looks like.

    The better I am at taking care of my own needs, the more complete I am as a person, the more fun I am to be with. So even though I started down this road because of my LI, I’m staying on it because when I ‘walk my talk’ I feel WONDERFUL.

    I’m in love with meeeeeee!


  388.  #388Gerovital Romania on September 14, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    I’m going through a divorce right now and I discovered your blog by chance. Thanks it’s helping me a lot.

  389.  #389Kate on September 20, 2010 at 7:38 pm

    I have been following all of Rori’s advice for 6 months. The first CD I purchased was Toxic men and realized that my boyfriend of 2 years was highly toxic- probably narcissistic. However, I still love him deeply.

    I started with the feeling messages and conversations. Low and behold he broke up with me to go on a reality show. Some of you, I have spoken with about this before. He told me that when he returned home he wanted to get back together and get married. He even did a morning show interview stating these things.

    I tried to put this out of my head over the summer although it was extremely hard since it was on prime time TV 3 nights a week- torture. I circular dated and most men made me want to vomit- they still do.

    When he finally returned home, he did not contace me for 2 weeks other than leaving a gift basket at my front door. I had enough of the headgames and sent a very mature letter to never contact me again. While I know that is the healthy choice. I still am so heartbroken and miss him terribly. I compare every date to him and I want no part of it. All I really want is to hibernate at home with my son and a good book.

    If a man calls me from an on line dating site, I make it a short 45 minute date and I am totally not interested in speaking to him. I know I need to get over this. I do the tools constantly but find myself deep in sadness missing him so much wondering if I did the right thing by sending that goodbye letter.

    My plan has been to focus on my window. I have started a Jewish singles parent volunteer club and focus on my teaching, my son, community volunteer work, friends, yoga etc. I circular date and make time to meditate and embrace my aloneness. NOTHING is helping to take away the constant pain I feel in my heart about missing him. Any advice when none of the advice is working?

  390.  #390Rori Raye on September 21, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    Kate – stop fighting the pain and accept it. There is a significant part of you, inside that must be transformed – and there is a feeling of “death” in that transformation. Circular Dating isn’t about dating – it’s about Free Therapy – and THAT’S what you need. You’re in exploration and experimentation mode. Be sad when you feel sad – but just keep going. Love, Rori

  391.  #391Kate on September 25, 2010 at 6:26 am

    That makes so much sense..thank you. I think the part of me that needs to be transformed (and I am working on it) is the fear of being alone. That fear is slowly dying. Okay- I will be brave and put myself back on the on line dating sites. Thanks Rori!

  392.  #392Karen on October 11, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    I have been taking all of your advice. I am circular dating, leaning back, using feeling messages, enjoying my life, playing on my island etc.

    I loved reading all of your posts- it made me laugh after all of my horrible on line dates. I have been using all of Rory’s tools to attempt to “get over” my toxic 2 year relationship. It has been hard to say the least. Is there anyone who also finds that dating sometimes makes things worse?

    There are many times when I am on these dates that I would rather be home in my PJ’s but I keep going and miss my ex even more because of the low quality of men there are out there. The more we become sirens, the harder it is to find a potential match. Our standards get higher as they should and as they always should have been. Since we are quality, we want the same in return. I am starting to loose hope that it is out there.

    I am on 4 dating websites and friends have been fixing me up. There has not been one man since my relationship ended last summer that I find even remotely appealing or interesting. Rori mentioned in one of her programs that when the boring guys show up, you know you are healing and on the right track. Well, am I ever healing!!!!! LOL

    Keep up the good work sirens 😉

  393.  #393shawn on November 6, 2010 at 9:12 am

    After 6 years and trying everything under the sun my boyfriend packed his things and is gone. He waited until I was gone on vacation and was moving things out while he was having our normal conversation on the cell. He had been on an out of town job and about two months ago I started really getting signals. It’s been three weeks and I’m doing pretty good though my desire to go out and mingle hasn’t kicked in. I’m scared to start. I did way too much over functioning and yes when I finally started taking me time is when it all went south. Too bad for him as I know his past and he will never have anything as good again and I will get my prince and he will cry like I did when he knows he threw THIS away! Ok now where do I begin? I hate bars but like this little wine place and I love the bookstores. So how do I give out the vibe for my prince to find me?

  394.  #394suncha on December 2, 2010 at 7:28 am


    I’ve been “seeing” this guy for 4 months-but not any more. After reading information on your website…I now know that I had an imaginary relationship with him. He told me in the beginning that he wanted more than just friendship but not pressured into a commitment and that he wants it to “just happen”. During the whole 4 months…he has had a profile up on a dating website and told me that he is just keeping his options open for someone who doesn’t text so much (this is coming from a man that will call me 7 times in 2 ½ hours when I am at work and can’t answer the phone). In the second month we were dating, he went out of town for 4 days and asked if I could come over once a day and check on his dog. I did. I drove 23 miles both ways for 4 days so his dog could take a 10 minute potty break. All he said was thank you. Didn’t take me out to eat, didn’t reimburse me for the money I had to use for gas. When we would “hang out”, it was always at his I would drive to his place 2-3 times a week. I’ve cooked him dinner, brought him little things to show him I was thinking of him. Never once did he take me out. We have NEVER been together outside of him home. I haven’t met any of his friends, family or kids. He won’t let me meet his best friend, he said he didn’t’ trust me with him. I asked him “you don’t trust him or you don’t trust me?” He answered “you.” Which I find ironic..because 23 years ago we dated off and on (like a lot of young 20 some year olds do), his best friend asked him if he cared if he hit on me and he told him to go for it. Said he knew that I wouldn’t do it….so he knew I wouldn’t do it then, but now he thinks I would????

    I know what I did was wrong…but I’ve been playing head games for the past month trying to get him to become exclusive. I was too scared to just straight out ask him…I wanted him to know that other men were interested in me and of course he really didn’t care. He told me to do what I want. One week we had a great time HANGING OUT AT HIS HOUSE. It was absolutely amazing! I told him about it in 5 different messages. How wonderful I felt. Then I had to apologize to him for exploding my wonderful feeling everywhere. Didn’t say anything. He ignored me all day. Didn’t answer my calls or my texts. Then I finally got fed up with him being a jerk and told him I wasn’t coming over the next night to cook him dinner. Oh Wow!! My cell phone lit up!! I didn’t answer my phone because I wasn’t about to get into a shouting match with him over the phone at work. So he texted me and told me that I have no f-ing clue what’s going on..that for all I know he could have had a sister that died this day a few years back and that I was a c—. He absolutely ripped me a new one and told me to leave him the f— alone. I felt bad, so I went to his house and he ripped me another new one…course I deserved it for going over there. He yelled at me and to me to “f— go home, that he wasn’t in the mood for this sh– I don’t want you here, I told you to leave me the f— alone.” I told him I wasn’t here to fight but to see if he was okay. “I’m f—fine. I’m f—- 42 years old and I don’t need this sh–. You play f—- head games; you just can’t sit back and leave it alone. Sh— isn’t always about you…the world doesn’t revolve around you, you always think it’s about you” and he told me how self-absorbed I was. I calmly said okay, give me my things and I will go away.

    It’s challenging for me to let him go only because I’ve known him for over 23 years. We lost touch with one another 13 years ago and he found me on a dating website, and we reconnected. The times we spent together were absolutely amazing. He would tell me how pretty I am…and gaze deeply into my eyes for long periods of time. I will catch him staring at me a lot. We have a good time together, lots of chemistry.

    Rori…I guess after writing all this, I don’t even know what question I want answered. I’m just really floored by his outburst (which I have NEVER seen before). Am I really self absorbed?
    I REALLY like him a lot and I really wanted us to be and “us”. But since he has conditions and he has kicked me to the curb…I’m really better of with out him????


  395.  #395Jackie on December 12, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    I understand what you are feeling. My boyfriend broke up with me Nov 6. He couldnt make a commitment. He took me back to the state that he
    met me in. Paid my way,spent a week going to places
    having fun. Talk about confusing. People say forget him but I dont want to. Psychics tell me that he loves me more than I love him, but he is not with me.
    Otherwise I would look for greener pastures. What I and going to do is improve myself, stay busy and see
    what happens for a few months.Pray and stay positive.We come into the world alone, we leave alone. I am working on getting in touch with my feelings more. I truely love this man.

  396.  #396Rori Raye on December 14, 2010 at 10:39 am

    Jackie, you sound great. Get out there and be you! Love, Rori

  397.  #397S. Whelan on December 29, 2010 at 11:34 am

    I’ve resently went through a breakup… his doing (G).

    We dated exclusively for a year and it was great; his family was even in shock with the breakup.

    I’m trying to move on, but can’t. I still long for him and need more closure… why? I’m trying not to ask questions over and over, I’m trying to accept and move on. I’ve even got back on the dating site and have set up met and greets, but find I’m feeling guilty and nervous and sick to my stomach because in my heart, it doesn’t feel over with G.

    I want this to stop and I need help finding ways to move on.

    Please help.

    Sobbing uncontrolably in public,
    S. Whelan

  398.  #398Ella on December 29, 2010 at 11:45 am

    Hi S Whelan,

    Sorry to hear that you are going through a painful time!

    If you post on the most recent thread you will get more responses.

    If you want an answer from Rori I think you have to use her name.

  399.  #399Brenda on December 29, 2010 at 11:54 am

    S. Whelan,

    I feel your pain. What helped…and helps…me is to feel my deepest feelings, moment by moment, even the ouchy ones, and to treat myself tenderly, facing the pain, yet comforting the pain with softness and warmth: soft, warm surroundings, people, words, sounds, scents, and thoughts.

    It’s our sensitivity that yields our most cataclysmic feelings! So, even tho it also yields our most crushing feelings, too, I find it healthy to nurture my heart feelings. If my heart tells me I need some time alone in nature to stare into the sky while I simply think and feel, I take that time, housework and responsibilities be damned. If my heart tells me I need to vent by journaling and/or writing my thoughts and feelings on the blog, I journal. If my heart tells me I need to be around people right now, I honor her needs.

    It’s comparable to a broken leg: we pay attention to the pain, because that is our warning signal. We rest the leg, avoid putting pressure on it while it heals; take pain medication to comfort the sharp pain.

    With our heart pain, we can find healthy, healing ways to anesthetize the pain: leisurely baths, reading, naps, a happy movie, petting the cat, energy-releasing workouts (I prefer dancing and swimming – do what feels good!)

    At a time like this, nothing is more important. Broken things need time to heal.

    Come join us on the newest thread!

  400.  #400Sabine on January 8, 2011 at 5:45 am

    Thank you for this Rori. My heart has been so tied up in Kimbe for the past 2.5 years. We’ve wanted to be together but I am married. Though I would have left my husband long ago, even before I met Kimbe, I haven’t been able to. Kimbe couldn’t wait any longer and he’s gone back to his safety net girlfriend. Now I’m left to lick my wounds. It hurts to lose someone you’re kindred with, and when you never really had a chance to be together.
    I’ve been reading your blog thoroughly and its been healing balm. So thanks very much.

  401.  #401Eva on January 10, 2011 at 1:36 am


    I´ve just broken up with him – after 8,5 years !!!! I feel such a pain like I never did before. I decided to do it because last month our relationship went badly again (for at least 7th time this year) and there was no hope for it to be taken to the next level. Even if he wanted me to move into his flat I didn´t agree because to me marriage is important too and he only says that he is able to “start thinking about it only after we start living together to see if there is any future for us.” How can I agree to live with him when what he is telling me is actually – I am not sure about you, I would never feel happy living like this, it would make me only more insecure. So yesterday I explained this to him and finally broke up with him. He said it´s hard for him too but thinks he did not treat me badly and the problem is he doesn´t know what to do anymore, that there is no way he could make me happy even if he tries hard. To this I can only comment that since the time I had told him my point of view on living together without any future (marriage commitment), he has become rather distant, we had no sex, he didn´t even want to hold my hand and stay close, it was very weird. I told him it felt weird to keep such a distance and he blamed stress at work, illness (he had tonsilitis) and other things in his life he finds disappointing. But I knew there was another problem. Yesterday I finally found out that he was angry with me for my “request” (his own words) to be engaged prior to living together first and now he was not even sure if he still wanted to live with me anymore. So I told him I do not want this holding pattern of relationship to last anymore and broke up with him. For the first time that evening he had tears in his eyes and said he hoped that some day we find a way to solve this.

    But Rori, what would you do? I don´t know how to solve this? I must admit I am (wasn´t ever) CD-ing, I found your blog only this year and I never thought this could happen to me. I regarded him the love of my life. But now I feel hopeless, I felt very strange going to work with him today (I cannot completely avoid contact with him as he takes me to work by car sometimes and now I can´t afford commuting on my own). But it feels so painful to sit there talking about weather while lately there has been so much going on in this relationship.
    What should I do? I feel very lonely and inadequate – other women get married after e.g 2 years and I wasn´t able to even after 8,5 years. Is it hopeless to still have any expectations from him or should I completely move on? I fear doing so so much…..

    Thank you for your support,


  402.  #402Eileen Mary on March 5, 2011 at 6:02 am

    For Rori or anyone on the site. Need to download feelings. Ended the FWB of a year that was becoming more than that. Been frightened since New Years when the man held me tighter than I have ever been held and silently cried. He can’t tell me why and said he doesn’t remember what it was about. I don’t buy it.

    Two days ago I told him I feel like an emotional version of the Dr. Doolittle’s push me pull you. He admitted to putting distance between us and didn’t want to mislead me, that he didn’t think I was the won, but you never know. Last year at this time he could not visualize us still being together. I am one of the few people in his life that he truly trusts, the one he trusts the most outside his family.

    Yesterday was his B-day and I had him come over for dinner. I could feel he was almost angry over my being giving even though it was nothing special. Turns out this is the swecond year he didn’t get a call from his father. As the wine flowed we both talked more freely and I told him I didn’t want the indecision to continue. We went back to his house for one last time as my adult daughter was home. More wine more talk. He was tender and more romantic than he has been in months, but we just went to sleep, him holding me in his arms. Early morning sex was great with lots of him moaning omg. After that I felt the urge to leave as soon as possible and keep hearing Rori words get out. He got up and starting getting dressed chattering about nonsense stuff as if nothing had changed. I asked him to stop, told him I had to be honest, I have been denying I love you. He said he suspected that, didn’t want to hurt me, but knew I was not the one. I stopped him and said I have listened to how you feel for a year and this is about how I feel now.

    I want to be the first mate to a captain of the ship on the rough seas of life. A man who has a defined, not an elusive definition of what he wants in a woman, one who can verbalise what “the one” actually means. I want to be the admistrative assistant of a man with direction. A man who can grab hold of me with an open heart. I said this may sound angry, not my intent, but I am in pain, I love you, but I desereve more than a maybe in time and never say never.

    He seemed to understand and not be angry or hurt. More like this took the burden off of him. He was going to drive me home, I live around the corner. I said no, that is about you wanting to feel good about this, not about me and I need the walk. Told him I am not going to play the friends part, I have enough male friends and need to distance myself. He half jokingly said can I hire you when I ned someone to watch the dog. Dumbly, I said yes. I just stood there his dog sitting in front of me begging for pets and sensing something wrong. I said I am having a hard time moving to him. Took a deep breath and said goodbye, no smile no looking at him and walked out.

    I feel like hell. I feel his fear won out. I feel maybe I should have waited. I feel no I did the right thing. I feel like going back to his house and having him hug me one more time, yet know that is wrong. I feel he is hurting over this also. I don’t want to feel that or should I feel it. Lost in emotions. On top of this I have a date tonight.

    About him. An adopted child. Just turned 52. Never been married. Realy in love once, sort of engaged and lived with her about 8 months before they broke up over her infidelity. She ended 15 years ago. Since then he has lived only with dogs and not had a serious relationship.

    Hope someone finds this interesting and makes comment.

  403.  #403Dianna on May 24, 2011 at 6:34 pm

    I have been reading your post and news letter. And i feel so much better. I cant afford any more books at the moment but when i get a job i will. I was with my x for fifteen years and have been divorced for two. He told me he would stay if i gave up my kids so i paid him to leave. I really miss him even now. He still tells me he loves me and hasn’t started dating yet. I don’t know how to fix it. I am giving up on fixing it. I am trying your circular dating and i date alot. I am forty three and the only guys i seem to date are in there twenties and really hot. course as soon as they want to know where the relationship is going i run the other direction. How do I stop this fear of a meaningful relationship when my heart was shattered and i cant find the pieces. Dianna

  404.  #404CLARISSA VALENZUELA on June 15, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    HI my name is clarissa i been with my boyfriend for six years and sometimes it feels like theres somebody else on the side of me and its like i feel lust then love and i dont want that im happy but i dont think hes happy with me i think he’d gotten tried of me and you i am sometimes he tells me that i am not myself and that im not the person i use to be and i tell him i still am me………..but i dont know its llike im losing myself i feel that he dont love me anymore as he said he does i think they are all lies but we do spent time with eachother sometimes or he’s with his bestfriend jessika i think theres something going on between them there to close i told him how could you kall her you bestfriend when you just met her six or seven month ago i dont know wat to do anymore im losing myself………:(

  405.  #405Femininewoman on June 15, 2011 at 2:54 pm

    Clarissa do you have any of Rori’s materials. If you do you know she advices to circular date, go out and have fun. Meet other people, join classes to get some passion and excitement back into your life. Are you doing any of these things?

  406.  #406Desperate divorcee.. on June 19, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    I waiting 15 years to remarry. He and I dated for 3 years, then we were married.We are both successful professionals, I am a nurse, he is an attorney. After 10 months of marriage,I filed for divorce. I cant get over him.I am in such an awful place.

    I knew that he was extremely controlling, when I married him. I did not know that he was a liar. I discovered one month after we were married that he had a relationship with other women while we were dating. He didnt know I knew. Then I started looking into his life and discovered that he was lying to me, daily. I started confronting him.He would get angry with me, and tell me to get out.He also continuously put me down and would not allow me to make his home my home. Lots of negatives.

    Finally with the continued lying, and him telling me to leave, I left. I filed for divorce, but I still think about him often, and even asked if he wanted to spend the night, but he totally shut the door. He is a narcissist. I am a weak pathetic woman.

    I am thinking about finding another man to date, just to get over him. I know that this is unwise, but I am literally a wreck.

    I have been in counseling, taken the right antidepressents, but still miss him so much and am heartbroken. Mind you, know one knows this. If my family, friends knew I was trying to reconnect with him, they would be very upset.


  407.  #407Desperate divorcee.. on June 19, 2011 at 7:11 pm

    In addition.
    I am a huge exersize fanatic, and he and I often enjoyed time together exersizing. When I moved into my new home, I hurt myself badly. I not only cannot exersize, but have been out of work. It has been an awful 3 months…..
    Any advice, please.

  408.  #408Ashley on June 26, 2011 at 1:55 am

    Focus on his negative traits, and why it never could have worked out. Before my exboyfriend and I broke up I knew the end was near. I took a picture of him while he was sleeping and he had that sideways face thing going on where all the fat in your face goes to one side? And he was drooling. Sounds funny, and yeah, it’s a little mean and superficial, but it really helped.

  409.  #409Michelle on August 2, 2011 at 8:12 am

    Hi Rori,
    I’ve recently discovered you and your teachings. I have purchase two of your programs the last of which is focused on the reconnection. I’m afraid that maybe I should have purchased the toxic men program.
    I was in a relationship for 5.5 years and it’s basically ended. It has. He gives me tidbits of hope now and then and professes this is not what he wants all the while actively and openly pursuing another woman. I have lost myself in this relationship. I now have lost dignity and self respect. I’m trying so ahrd to get back my faith and belief in myself. It is a struggle. We have a child together so it’s not as if I can cut all ties. There was the promise of marriage and a beautiful ring but something always happened to keep it from happening. I am 40 years old and lost. Do you have any recommendations for me?
    I’m dieting, exercising, journaling, trying to reach out to people, going to the beach, listening to your cd’s. I have lost 18 pounds in a short amount of time. I pray. It seems nothingis working. I wake each morning with thoughts of the relationship and its demise before I’m fully conscious. It’s as if I’ve woken up in the middle of a movie all about this latest sadness. how do I get myself to see the writing on the wall, accept it and move forward. How do I squash the hope I still feel?
    Thank you for your time. I truly need help.

  410.  #410freckles on August 24, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    I find myself searching like so many of you for some way out of these overpowering emotions some quick release from this turmoiling that seems to have no end..thankfully there isn’t any…these emotions we feel are there for a purpose they are there to direct us and show us, teach us…don’t be too quick to rush thru this process IT IS OK to feel betrayed, disillusioned, invalidated, wounded, fearful, lost..all of these emotions you are entitled to you are allowed to feel them…and it is up to you as to wether you let them consume in them then release them they have a time they have their season but they do not define you..Within you is incredible strength to rise up and move forward more focused on who you are and what you need…NOT what you can be for a man.
    I have just been unceremoniously ‘dumped’ after 3&1/2 years with the love of my life. I am a professional mother of three and from all appearances seem to ‘have it all’. My journey with this man has encompassed abuse, healing, lies upon lies upon lies, addictions, bipolar, awakenings, it will at some point if i can let go enough make an incredible story.. it has led me places i could never have imagined,far too many at the cost of myself…my biggest lesson throughout is that there is no blame to be laid i chose to give of myself i chose to forgive, i cannot expect to recieve just because i gave…i cannot feel the injustice at not recieving back what i thought i deserved..what i learned is this….. only ever give love that is free of expectation…. when you learn to do this you are loving truely free of fear of not recieving. my love is a gift it is a beautiful thing as is each and every single one of you women…now i look ahead with all this doubt and fear still within me but it does not define or rule me and i’l move forward past all this clearer stronger free’r….eventually;)

  411.  #411Esteemed on August 24, 2011 at 3:31 pm


    Sad, but beautifully written.

  412.  #412Daria on August 24, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    frekles – emotions flow quickly… (its the thought loops that keep us stuck)

    here’s the first thing in my life that ever helped me shift my energy and emotions


    just try it, writing it out

  413.  #413freckles on August 24, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    Thanks Daria it looks like something i will try. and yes the loops definetly need a new direction…maybe thats where term ‘loopy’ originates!

  414.  #414Daria on August 24, 2011 at 6:47 pm

    Frekles – i found you! come post on the newest posts!

    here’s one way to interrupt the loops that feels incredible – as in WOW IT WORKED on this??!! – for me

    I use it and then FLIP – insert a new, feel good thought right after (helps a lot) –

    a default one is “I”m healing!”

    but i usually pick something related to the topic

    ~~ these two tools in the links have felt so powerful and I will use them lifelong for healing myself again and again ~~

  415.  #415April on October 27, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    3 months almost and Ive been in the dating sites. The sad thing is however I,m having trouble finding anyone I can connect with. Maybe its me or Im too picky. And lately Ive had another problem since Im moving back to the same town he,s in. While browseing the sites for guys I keep running across his picture.This really hurts and brings up the pain all over again. When I see him in one site I switch to another a darned if he insnt there too.Im so disgusted Im about ready to quit them all and be alone : (

  416.  #416Lostsoul on November 21, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    Hi god where do I start .. I met a guy we were together for two weeks then my Dad got really ill, he was really lovely and a great distraction. My Dad sadly passed away four weeks later so the relationship really began on a weird footing. I’ve been up and down, I felt like he really liked me, he was calling loads and texting, coming over lots, it felt like he was holding back but got the impression he was a little insecure. I admit I was doing a lot of ‘doing’ I probably went into a relationship mode straightaway, he encouraged me to talk about my Dad and I was up and down and said that’s what he was here for and we settled into him coming over. I started to get frustrated as I felt like I was putting him first, he started to talk to me in a mean way and if I pulled him up he’d say ‘we’ll you’re talking crap’ he made me feel bad. He kept falling asleep loads and almost ignoring my needs and focusing on what he wanted to do. I started to feel bad. I’ve got two kids and the weekends that I’m kid free I want to do things and he was almost oblivious to this and the last weekend we were together when I was child free he was hung over and spent the day lying around falling asleep, luckily I had lots of magazines to amuse myself. On the Sunday the vibe wasn’t good. We spoke everynight then I saw him on wednesday and the feeling was different he wasn’t loving, he was switched off and i felt I should be excited to see him after three days. On Thursday he called me and said ‘I think it’s time to call it a day, he said that he felt there was no spark and he should be madly in love with me by now and he wasn’t. I felt awful. I was sad and disappointed as it’s another failure and he’d only said the other week that he wasn’t going anywhere! He didn’t fill me full of rubbish at all but I just feel crap. He said he’d call as he needs to collect his things he hasn’t yet..why?? He changed his status on facebook straightaway and then he deleted me. I can’t understand as we didn’t end on a bad note and he said he’d miss me. I don’t know what to do, how do I handle the situation when he calls?? Also must mention he has had a really weird childhood with a bizarre father who had an affair and left the family. He has no time for him, his mam is lovely but he isn’t close to her but I hit it off with her fantastically and I want to say bye to her but don’t know if I should contact her… Please please help? X

  417.  #417Ledona on December 21, 2011 at 8:42 am

    I left my ex 5years ago after 10 years of mental, emotional and a couple of times physical abuse. When our relationship was good it was the best a relationship gets but when it got bad it was the worst they can get. I put up with a lot and just wanted his love until he cheated on me and that was to much,I finally left him but I still haven’t gotten over it. After it ended I lost all sexual desire and still feel nothing. I feel like I can never have another relationship if I have no sexual feelings. How do I find that part of me again ? And then last year he was sent to prison for 8 years and of course he started calling and e-mailing me telling me I was always the one he really loved. I know its just because he is in prison but it brought up a lot of those old feelings again.How do I get over this ? I would really like to meet someone and have a good relationship

  418.  #418fay on December 30, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    Hey Rori

    I really want to thank you for this website!! My fiance just dumped me and im a mess right now. Reading your posts is helping me and in a new fan of yours!! thanks alot!! 🙂

  419.  #419Rori Raye on December 30, 2011 at 7:16 pm

    fay – Much love to you, and the next one will be SO much better – My friend Christine Arylo has the same story as yours, and not only is she happy as a clam now and happily married (and it didn’t take long, either) – she’s a well-known coach! Love, Rori

  420.  #420Kath on January 12, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    Hi Rori

    Your comment to Amy was very helpful to me. My husband left me about 2mths ago after being married for 7 years and being together for 13 years. We had tried for a baby for the past 4 years and that tipped him over the edge, especially when he got his new job and it required alot of travelling around the country and then met a couple that influenced a new world to him. He told me he no longer was inlove with me or attracted to me, didnt’ want to be married anymore and had to be selfish and think of himself. We were always so very close in every way, and then he changed in the last year dramatically and i never saw the warning signs that he was pushing away from me. I then found out he was going to alot of strip clubs (that he claims he took clients there) and hanging out with this couple all the time, who by the way the girl is bi sexual, and now he wants to climb Mt Everest. I’m really trying to pull myself out of this hurt but keep sliding back into it everytime i hear something about him from his family or mutual friends. I know the person he has become i don’t want in my life but i’m still in love with the man that i married. He is desperate for me to find someone else and that pains me even more that he can have no remorse or respect for me or the relationship we had. He shut me off emotionally and financially almost instantly and went back on every agreement we had made in the beginnign when he first told me the heart breaking news. It went from a 3mth break to its over in a matter of 2 mths. He can’t look me in the eye and won’t speak to me, and i haven’t made contact with him for the past month now. Its just devastating!

  421.  #421April on January 30, 2012 at 7:55 pm

    I recently discovered after 6 months that my ex had issues and had loved me all along but is trying to get me out of his heart.he had reacted weird when he ran into me at his A,A, club. He wouldnt even look at me and even though I decided to play along and not approach him he was angry at me for being there. But what a save!! a great looking guy with the most amazing blue eyes started flirting with me and this guy drives a brand new Ram.I was so busy enjoying this awesome guys company i wasnt noticing my ex, or the fact he was getting jealous.Then one day an older woman friend of his explained to me that he wasnt in a place where he wanted to be in a serious relationship right now that he was still single and that he was hoping to never see or hear from me again thinking eventually he would get over me.All this time I thought he just stopped loving me.The only problem now is I dont want him to get over me.I want to see him in passing and get a hug. I want him to keep in touch with me in case he gets over his issues. I still miss him despite everything, I still love him despite learning to love myself and despite 3 other men in my life vieing for my attention.Despite trieng to make myself happy. I want him to miss me even more and I want it to all be too much on him and him want me back.Dam it!! I dont want him to forget me!!I broke down after months of leaving him alone and sent him an e, mail telling him that I was feeling sad because I still love him.I told him i would continue to try to move on. But I know he will not admit he still has feelings for me. So I hit him with my feelings, now its time to run, to lean back and see what happens after this. He expressed anger over my flirting with this other man. You could tell he was jealous. It made me so happy because I was surprised .

  422.  #422Ann on April 21, 2012 at 9:45 am

    Dear Rori

    I have been dating a man for three months and we had a lovely time together. At first I was the siren but with time we started losing the connection. This Tuesday he asked for time away and said that he was feeling distant. I was heartbroken. Listening to the Siren program this morning I was ecstatic. I feel free . Something inside me has upped and I am delighted, positive connected to myself. I cannot thank you enough.

    I have one question though. His birthday s coming up this week and he is taking a break. I had bought him a ticket to a concert and a very artistic gift that i got way back during my travel. As I sit with my feelings, I was wondering if I should mail them to him. I do not need to pursue him yet I would like him to have then since they were bought for him. Need advice and I am so grateful for the amazing talk. I am leaving my cage!:)

  423.  #423jan on August 3, 2012 at 8:30 am

    hi. i just lost my 1 year I really don’t know whatto call it. I just believe that it was faith that i met him. but he Wants not to have Any sexually relationships with me because he say’s he wants get spirtually with hisself. I do like him very much and I cannot give him any children, (he doesn’t have any.) Because of health issues I am not able to bear children. He does want to have children one day , and he thinks I’m holding him back. I just wonder why did he waited so long to let this thing we had go. he got to know my children and my little loves him she show’s the hurt when I told her that he will not be around. Oh why do I feel so bad. i wake up crying. Why do we have to hurt. He want to continue to be friends, but I don’t know I prefer to just give it a break and see if It was meant to be. I still have my clothes at his house and he still has his at mine, noone has made any moves to say I’, coming for my things or ask eachother for them. i don’t know I’m a little hurt right now. Please somone help me!!!!!!!

  424.  #424Rori Raye on August 3, 2012 at 10:54 am

    jan – please, please go to a clinic or therapist and get some professional help. Change your diet so you avoid all sugars, take good, basic supplements that will help your mood, and get some help dealing with the ins and outs of life. Love, Rori

  425.  #425jillylinn on September 25, 2012 at 5:48 pm

    I understand only oh too well about trying to move on from a bad breakup. Yes, it sure does hurt, especially when the man told me things that i needed to hear for a very long time…how beautiful I was, sexy, fun, etc…and so many other wonderful things. And then out of the blue he just decides to not call for a week. Couldn’t reach him by phone, or anything else. It totally left me wondering, What the heck did I do??…you know what??..I didn’t do a darn thing wrong, it was him and he just decided to have an affair at work with his boss, wow, what a slap in the face. And of course we’ve had words now, not such good ones either, but he left me no other alternative than to let him have it. I wish I could have controlled my mouth, but anger manifests and it eats you alive from the inside out…very painful and totally destructive to ones self esteem. It’s only been a couple of days so I’m severely hurting. I was so good to this man and it seems so very unfair that i just want to choke him, but that won’t help fix things either. Writing calms me down a lot, so that’s what I’ve been doing. I think if I could think of all the bad things about this man, instead of obsessing on all the good things, I could probably move on, and that’s exactly what I’m going to be doing over the next few days, weeks, months….god only knows how long it will take. And I have to tell myself that I was good to him, very good to him, but that only seems to make me feel worse, because for the life of me, I can’t figure out why this person would throw away a perfectly good woman. We have to understand that not everyone feels the same way about each other, and some men are weak when it comes to women hitting on them, they just can’t say NO. I had to bury my husband a few years ago and that was the hardest thing I ever had to do, but this is almost worse, because this man had a choice whether to give up on me or not, my husband had no choice. All I know is that I have been through a lot of difficult situations and this is just one that I’m going to have to suck up with time….as they say, Time heals all wounds and also, What comes around goes around…so I can only hope, haha….I plan on staying very busy so not to think about this person and in time I will be free of him forever;)….his loss, right? haaa