How to Get What You Want on the Outside Even Before You Heal on the Inside

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This post is a jump-off of a dust-up and discussion between one of the coaches who posts here, Erika Awakening, and dawn (and more of you, too, as well).  It got me thinking about how it feels for me to coach and write and want to help women as a profession – and how that affects my day-to-day life, and how that might be meaningful for you.

In the way that giving advice and overfunctioning and “helping” and “nurturing” is ALL masculine energy – I always say that “I’m the only boy here, so you can focus on the girl expression of yourself,” and yet, as more and more coaches and therapists start posting here, it makes us all want to get into the advice-giving gig – and that’s not helpful for what we’re working at here for you.

And I also notice the coaches struggling, often, for their own voice when this is, after all, my blog – so it’s hard to disagree with me, even though it might be a powerful thing for us all to hear…

I adore Tinque, and think she’s got it exactly right.  Her own story is so powerful, and she’s gone to such a soft place – it just comes out that way when she talks and writes, and I find her transformative.

And some others, like Erika Awakening – have quite different personalities and styles than I do – styles that come on strong and seem at odds with the tenor here sometimes, but that work for their clients quite fabulously, when they’re in their own environment.

And Orna Walters, who’s so utterly passionate and seems to be finding a way to be both powerful – even shocking – without losing the compassion and unconditional love that just pours out of her.

And I’ve noticed that Daria is finding a real voice here, and moving into a transformative place without losing her gift as the Queen of Riffing.

But trying to do this “coaching” thing when you aren’t interested in doing it professionally can really mess you up.

It can push you into your head when what we want here is your heart.

Here’s my take on how the “guru” thing works:

There is absolutely no way to heal our tendencies to stuff and lie and hedge and make up bad stuff without some trial-and-error.

Even if you heal the underlying causes of trauma reactions and all kinds of behavior that doesn’t serve in energetic, quantum ways (and I DO believe this can happen and do many modalities on myself and clients all the time) – it’s still like being a child again and learning to walk properly (many children who never learn to crawl get delayed in all kinds of ways – things need to be taken in order many times).

Even if you heal (especially, most times) a physical problem in the body – things just don’t go instantly back to “perfect” or “normal.”  There’s “Compensatory Torque” – (a few posts on this awhile back) – there are many things to unwind, and the weak muscles have to be specifically strengthened.

Recovering your true self may be instantaneous and amazing – but you still have to learn how to express what’s new inside on the outside in new ways.  Even if the cause is removed, the habit can remain. Thus—practice.

This is my take, and for me, that explains everyone of our ups and downs, ins and outs – and even physical issues.

I don’t believe you can learn to have magnificent sex and great orgasms, or to dance merely by taking away the beliefs that you can’t do those things.  You still have to practice.  You often need a teacher. You often need a partner – at least to practice.

So – we all have issues with key things – safety, security, money, freedom, intimacy, truth, sex…We all are triggered in different ways by different things because of our unique stories.

I’ve known many clearly healing “gurus” who were actually very short-tempered (go figure) or had difficulties with health or some basic life and people skills. And yet, in their presence, you heal.

Sometimes we come up against someone who throws us into a place where we have to look at stuff that’s completely beside the point and issues we thought we were working on!

Sometimes it’s not all interrelated.

Sometimes it’s “out of the blue.”

A person who has security thoughts constantly and is stuck and small around money – but who has a great love life…(yep, I’ve seen it…) can make us look in the wrong place…we’ll say “How can she, with all those problems, get a great guy like him?”

And so we think something’s wrong with the way we’ve been going about being “big” about our security and taking care of ourselves and think we need to be a “damsel in distress” in order to get a man.  We jump to the conclusion that men are easily intimidated.

But, actually, that woman may have shown up as a messenger for a completely different reason than the things we can obviously see.

It may simply be that she’s learned some good habits of thought and truth and speaking that work with the particular man she’s with – but that don’t do anything at all to heal her other issues.  Where she is on her journey might just be a different place that allows her to have a love life even though the rest of her is in disarray.

This is why it’s not important to be “put together.” It’s only important that you feel good about some crucial things that specifically dovetail with a specific man.

The more you find the truth and reality of who you are and how you’re living your life – no matter WHAT that looks like – and the more you offer up your time and energy to the discovery of who you are and how you’re living your life and consciously follow the good-feeling paths that show up instead of the hopeful, bad feeling ones…the more love you’ll encounter.

I truly believe that, even if we are not healed inside, we can meet someone who will walk on our path with us – and so we both heal.  The truth is the secret key, here…

And sometimes – all a guru needs to do to be a guru is shine a light on us for us.  He or she doesn’t have to be right, or smart, or even insightful in her interpretation of what she sees. (And this is where we each get caught up and messed up – in listening to interpretations instead of just looking at what is as best we can.)

The “healer” simply assumes the position of shining the light and being excellent at telling the absolute truth of what is there. A guru is a guru because her telling of the truth for you WORKS.  That’s it.  You hear it, it rings true, it gets a reaction, it shifts something – YOU do the work and the interpreting, and you feel a change for the better happen.

Lots of people can shine lights and tell the truth they see. There even may be different truths.  Watching a sunset, I may see orange and pink and say so, and you may see blue and lavender and purple and yellow, and say so. The question to ask is NOT what feels best to you in that moment – pink and orange or blue and lavender – but what feels best to you when you give that person’s truth a ride in your own system. People follow particular “gurus” because they make them feel good. You can lose yourself this way.

The truth is usually uncomfortable.  Not at all what we want to hear.  Sometimes, the most outspoken and raw people are the ones we thank later on – either for shining a light on us – or for shining a light so glaringly on themselves that we see what we thought about them and what they could do for us is not true at all.

We do this with men.  If men are messengers, and show up – every one of them – to HELP us and not on purpose to hurt us, then each one is a guru with a light.

Look for what you see when you hear something that sounds like the truth – for you, or for them…and run it through yourself. Riff on it.  See what YOU say about it.  See if a shift for the better happens.

Being a “guru” for a living, as a vocation or line of work – is a very specific thing. You’re in boy energy much of the time, often, while you’re learning to use your gifts and find your voice – you find yourself shining lights when no one’s asked. Shaking things up when people would rather be as is.

Once you’ve found your footing – Byron Katie perhaps, Deepak Chopra ((I don’t know them personally – I’m just imagining – but my guess is they are very simple in their everyday lives as people, and don’t go around with flashlights aimed anywhere but at themselves until you’ve asked, and invested yourself in hearing what they say (charging money is a way to make sure someone’s at least intending to be invested, sex is another)) – things become different.

I do not imagine that you’d get any words of wisdom from them at a party. I imagine you’d be more likely to see them dancing and laughing and telling jokes, or sitting in a corner with someone learning about something.

And yet – and I want to encourage you here to do this – if you shift your perception to the idea that by shining a light on OURSELVES – really, really deeply, and learning to speak the Truth about it – we automatically are gurus for the world. That’s why I want us to focus on shining the light on ourselves, and forgetting about advice and such. I love allowing those who would like to become professional “gurus” the opportunity to spread their wings here, find their voices, and see what it feels like to shift to boy energy and shine the light on the rest of us.

Then we get to listen for the message, see how it feels, and interpret things for ourselves.

Look for the message, thank the messenger, and open your arms and your heart for the next one.  Sooner than you think, the messengers will all be bringing truth that leads to joy.

Love, Rori


  1.  #1Siena on April 17, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    I had a moment yesterday where I felt bored with myself, like at this period of my life. I feel bored doing this healing without a partner. Whereas it felt adventurous before, now it feels dull.

    Rori, I’m a notorious advice-giver, but also smart enough to not call it advice so that I can still give it without immediately recognizing it as such, therefore deluding myself. I would feel good if you could shine a light on the ways that you’ve seen advice-giving disguised on this forum so I can learn better how to recognize it and avoid offering it.

  2.  #2Ingrid on April 17, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    Dear Rori: What a beautiful thread! I can sense you have come from a place of perhaps feeling not so good personally, about yourself having another “guru” come here and give advice, i.e., “as more and more coaches and therapists start posting here, it makes us all want to get into the advice giving gig, and that’s not helpful for what we’re working at here for you.”

    Rori: WHY, is this not helpful I ask? I see it as very helpful indeed. Another’s views. More to learn. More to contemplate. Why not? I think it’s marvelous hearing from others, and their viewpoints.

    Rori: you then go on to say, …… “when this is after all my blog”. . ,. ,.

    Rori: I can hear you and understand. But let me say you have absolutely NO reason to feel jealous whatsoever. Everyone knows this is YOUR blog and how wise and wonderful you are. Then the rest of your wonderful post seems you now know, we can all learn from each other no matter who. I sense a real softening from you, from perhaps anger and a bit of jealousy, to a softening and expressing to us all that it is OK to derive knowledge and wisdom from others, even it is here on YOUR blog. This makes me happy, that you are so accepting, soft and plain nice. Rori: You are awesome! I think.

    I say do not worry. We love you.


  3.  #3Ingrid on April 17, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Yes, look for the message and thank the messenger. YES! This is so awesome!!!!

    Thank you dear Rori for saying this.

    God Bless U


  4.  #4Ingrid on April 17, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    Dear Siena:

    I think and feel whatever advice you’ve offered it is wonderful and I feel for me, I really have appreciated it. And thank you.

    How are you today Siena? Where do you live?

    Gone to any ballets recently? I cannot recall exactly, but do you currently have a love? Do you have kids?

    I really am trying to get to know more of you here.

    God Bless U

    P.S. I hope you go to Mass tomorrow~~~

  5.  #5Simply Shannon on April 17, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    I had the weirdest experience today. I was riding with three of my friends, and we started talking about my dating life. Two were married, one was single but is in a long term relationship of 7 years. I told them the most recent dealings with Mr. Fab Kisser, which then evolved into a conversation about why I don’t want to be exclusive. You would have thought I had shot their dogs. What? Not exclusive? No, no, no. And I explained briefly how I was feeling needy and icky and I just didn’t want to feel that way. And then I stopped because I felt weird explaining it.

    Pre-Rori, I would have kept going. I would have explained and explained and explained because I needed to be right. Now, it feels okay to stop giving advice when that doesn’t feel good. In particular, the one who was single was defending her position, and I just didn’t feel interested in arguing. her life works for her, and that’s cool. it wouldn’t work for me.

    Just funny to how I’ve finally learned NOT to be the advice giver all the time. I still do it at times but I definitely heard myself going into that mode today and it felt bad. I don’t want to judge or assume that I know what’s best for someone else. I’m not the guru! 😉

  6.  #6Ingrid on April 17, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    Shannon: This is called “growth”.

    God Bless U

  7.  #7Tina on April 17, 2010 at 8:25 pm

    I have a fear of freedom *sniffle. Well I dont know if its really fear, but I noticed it come up during certain times, I am involved in some “heavy stuff” I’m even being vague now lol whatever anyway, I noticed my reaction/feelings of fear and anxiety coming up. I also feel excited too 🙂 wooohooooo! I love my feelings of fear! 2010 and I have of fear of freedom hehe:)

  8.  #8JCB on April 17, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    Hi, ladies… I posted this on an old thread, and Rori caught it and responded, but I’m not sure how the whole feed things work and if it was buried. I hope I’m not breaching any protocol in reposting:

    Ugh, here goes… A year ago I was newly-divorced — great relationship with ex, smooth transition, lives 3 blocks away and is very active in our 3 young kids’ lives — and feeling very strong and excited about the future and about getting back into the dating pool after a 16-year absence. Then…my 8th grade boyfriend found me on Facebook, and it was so wonderful to be back in touch with him after so many years; I’d often wondered what had happened to him. I can’t say he was my First Love, but in a sense I suppose he was. I was very naive, and everything was always very sweet with us — long teenage phone conversations about what we wanted from life, what we wanted in a spouse, hopes, dreams, etc. Sweet, sensitive, enlightened boy. Never anything more than kissing and a little fooling around, and then I moved and we lost touch. For 25 years he remained a little bright spot in otherwise dark memories of childhood.

    Then he was there again, all grown up and responsible; married, kidless, and yes… unhappy. Having just gone through that, knowing how easy it was to make those hard decisions when I finally took responsibility for my own happiness, I wanted to help him. It’s exciting when you wake up, you know? You want to share it with everyone and show them the way! We met for drinks and I heard his story: not married for long, mistake, didn’t know how to get out of it, didn’t want to hurt her, would rather live separate lives on opposite sides of the house than admit failure, yada yada yada…

    All of you can fill in the rest of the story; it’s one of the oldest in the world. A year later, he is still married, still in the house, still seeing me. The reasons are financial, fear of the unknown, fear of getting hurt… I won’t defend our actions, or even rationalize. All I can say is that I love this man, he loves me, and we are both terribly disappointed in ourselves and each other for our behaviors. Aside from his admitted cowardice and lack of action, he is everything I’ve ever wanted in a man, and I love us together. He talks about his feelings, which is totally new to me. He’s unafraid to reveal himself to me. We work well together, we want a future together and say we’ll do anything to make it happen; however, neither of us seem willing or capable of leaving each other alone in order to give him and his wife the space they need to end their marriage on their terms. They are separated, she knows it’s over, and she knows he’s seeing someone, but she doesn’t want the marriage to end because she doesn’t think she can ever find anyone again and doesn’t want to be alone. I want to give her a hug and tell her everything’s going to be okay.

    I’m new to this site, and am very grateful. I now see every single thing I’ve been doing that would cause him to be paralyzed and shut down and stay where he is. I know there’s no future in his marriage. I know he wants to be with me. But now I also know everything I’ve been doing to show him exactly why he has reasons to be scared of being with me; and armed with my new knowledge via this site, we’ve already had remarkably different conversations with remarkably different outcomes. Cool.

    So my question is this: all the Tools, the Feelings, the Energies, the Leaning… are these all moot points since he is still married? I read “No man worth anything would get involved with a woman while he’s married,” and “Divorce papers are required for any man you date. Period.” Are there no grey areas? Should I just know that married man = always a cheater = FAIL? Do I walk away with no further contact till the deed is done? Do I tell him I love him and will support him and will stand by him while he goes through this, but that I’m keeping myself open to other opportunities? I have other opportunities, and I will take them. I will date. But I want this one! My head tells me to crash the bus; but my heart tells me to drive the bus, full to capacity with awesome men, until he gives me a reason to drop them off and head back to the depot.

    Sorry about the clumsy metaphor, and the length… thanks for reading!
    Rori’s response:
    JCB, Welcome – and I would not go near a man who is actually married, until he separates by moving out and starts a divorce. It’s a handbook for heartache, and it’s bad karma besides. He may say how unhappy he is until he’s blue in the face, but most of him still wants to be where he is, or he wouldn’t be there. Circular Date, please, and if wanting this man is getting in the way of your letting other men into your life – that’s where we need to start working…Love, Rori
    My response:
    Thank you, Rori. I downloaded the ebook and have had the luxury of looking at the blog ALL DAY! I am open to all possibilities. But my question is, do I have to cut off all contact? Can I be a friend? I’m down with letting go of attachments and expectations — have been working on it for years — so I feel confident I could chalk this up to bad timing, etc., and offer loving and distant support. Do I tell him I’m backing off till he’s divorced and that I’m seeing other people, or do I just cut it off?

    Thinking about it more, could I really be just be a friend now without wanting anything more? I don’t know. I feel too frustrated, disappointed, devalued, dismissed, confused by his lack of action to trust my motives or listen to his whining about fears without rolling my eyes and telling him to man up and grow up. And the times when I do put on the Friend Hat and tell him this he responds rationally, telling me that he wants me to wait for him, but knows it’s not fair. I feel sad, like I’m abandoning him. I feel compassion, because I know what it’s like to feel scared of the unknown like he does. But holy cow, I struck out on my own with THREE KIDS. All he has to do is pack his crap into a van and find an apartment. Now I feel angry. And strong. And disgusted.

    How do I extricate myself gracefully from this? Tell him to call me when it’s over? Or can we keep in contact if it’s comfortable for me?

  9.  #9JCB on April 17, 2010 at 8:54 pm

    And… oh, I love this thread. This is how I was working on living –truthfully — before I got derailed by someone else’s lies.

  10.  #10Tina on April 17, 2010 at 8:54 pm

    Free is a sharp pain between my rib bones, where my cardiologist poked me hehe, this time it doesnt feel like all over. I picked up my cousin hitchhiking today, he terrified me for no reason. He was there to remind that freedom was not mine, not something I can have or feel oh yeah. He is not a real threat in my life , just there. I like him, I really do, but sometimes he goes “off”

  11.  #11Tina on April 17, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    Fear I meant lol Fear of freedom 🙂

  12.  #12Faustina on April 17, 2010 at 10:00 pm

    Thanks for this post, Rori. I have had a difficult experience recently with my sister, whose boyfriend committed suicide just a few weeks ago. I wanted SO badly to be helpful, to make her feel better and offer comfort. But, of course, I had to restrain myself and just shut up and let her cry, grieve, talk talk talk and explain and question and wonder and cry and be sad…and I couldn’t do or say anything! I wanted to give, and to make logical sense of the tragedy, but that’s not what she needed, so I shut up and let her process it, with me as her witness, and I’ve never felt closer to her than in those moments when she was just pouring out her thoughts and feelings, uncensored.

    It helped me realize how powerful just being with and for someone can be, and how selfish “giving” can actually be, even if you think you’re helping. (I’m not calling advice-givers selfish – just commenting on how I felt in this situation)

    This blog has its own sort of human presence – it’s a place that listens, not necessarily saying anything back to you. Of course there are lots of sweet, helpful, giving souls here who want to help, but I think I understand what you mean about all the masculine energy that is responding to posts with advice. It is ever so helpful to get feedback and different opinions, but often the real healing comes in the pure act of expressing of our feelings, without regard to the possible response that comes back to us. I feel that when we just express what we feel without “asking” for someone else to help us “solve” the problem of our emotions, we honor their righteousness.

  13.  #13Apple Jacks on April 17, 2010 at 10:01 pm

    “Rori, I’m a notorious advice-giver, but also smart enough to not call it advice so that I can still give it without immediately recognizing it as such, therefore deluding myself. I would feel good if you could shine a light on the ways that you’ve seen advice-giving disguised on this forum so I can learn better how to recognize it and avoid offering it.”

    This resonated with me. I feel the same way Siena does. Rori, I feel like this post was a good reminder for me in this journey of being in my feelings. I feel okay in being reminded or, shining the light so to speak to help me fine tune my awareness of this quality that I myself do possess. I feel like this post is like a thump upside my head, reminding me and knocking me into sense. And, I feel okay with that, and I love the thump on the head.

    JCB, I feel for you. I know what feels like being hung on a married man. Neither one of us could go through with it, and finally I’ve made breakthroughs in my progress of letting him go, thanks to this blog as I really only started to deligently post this week. I do though, feel really connected to your intensity of feelings and the hot and coldness of it all.

  14.  #14softy on April 17, 2010 at 11:00 pm

  15.  #15softy on April 17, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    This blog “Beautiful Healer Beautiful Grace ” 🙂

  16.  #16Tina on April 17, 2010 at 11:10 pm

    I went out for a decaf, the sharp pain is gone, I feel much better. I thought I was going to have an anxiety attack, I felt like it was coming but it didnt last long. I went to the 24 hr coffee shop. I thought about how I would feel about visiting a “ghetto” and thought I’d feel pretty comfy.

  17.  #17Daria on April 17, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    Tina lol

  18.  #18Tina on April 17, 2010 at 11:42 pm

    I attract men who feel safe to me but at the same time “keep me from freedom” grrrrrrr. Men who have their own agendas, the trade off is keep me safe at the cost of my freedom. This is just all in my head of course but who knows? I feel excited and happy dance happy but at the same time fearful.

    Daria, it makes sense to me 🙂

  19.  #19Paula on April 18, 2010 at 1:56 am

    I love this post. I was ‘cured’ of advice-giving a long time ago (I still do it now and then). I lived in a community with a living ‘guru’ for a year. I lived very closly with other women – 6 in a room, 100’s together for meals.

    I noticed that advice giving stops connection dead with another person. I shut them up, they shut me up when we gave advice. That does not feel good at all. I want to hear another person (it’s a priviledge) and I want to be heard. That feels healing and great.

    Advice giving doesn’t work anyway in my experience. What works is love and acceptance which allows me to love and accept myself. And if I can really love and accept the other person, then we can both heal.

    By the way, my ‘guru’ rarely gave advice. He was a humble, funny little monk who wanted us to be happy. If someone asked him a question, he answered from his experience and he often said that ‘I think you know the answer to that’.

  20.  #20Maria on April 18, 2010 at 5:13 am

    l have been reading this blog long time now. Most of the time l wont say anything, because l find it hard to interact. But there is something that differs for me Roris blog and any other “guru” blog – somehow, when l come here, l breathe and relax, whilst l have found some other websites that l feel are like “hard work” to understand.
    l dont know, how to put this, but l use Roris own words – it just feels GOOD to be here. You may call it a good aura, but somehow, through the miles…l sense that Rori CARES. dont get me wrong – lm not saying any other gurus wont….but its the same thing, when you look church, husband, friend, just cos they are labelled as church, you still can follow, what feels good to be.

    l belive the real guru, indeed, makes you feel complete. l know a pastor, who said, that sometimes he find people fall asleep during the preaching, and this is not because of the boring speech. He pointed out, that this is the atmosphere, where you just “rest in the presence of god.” You have that feeling that you are fully acepted, and that gives joy and happiness.

    l like the fact, that we are all humans here – no supermodels (well, maybe some of us are, but lm talking about mindset), no lm-better-than-you-kinda people, you know, what l mean…and l quess this is what attracts so many of us to this blog.

    What l find fascinating about the blog, is that Rori wont give us millions of extra work, a la when this and this is done, we will be perfect, beautiful and married. He encourages us to love us the way we are. Because every minute in our life counts, and what lve learned is that you need to live in a moment, not when times are better, or body is slimmer and more money in bank account.

    As shall l remind you, as l mention that, twice, now – When Heidi Klum was pregnant, his then partner cheated on her. And the world was thinking – man! you have Heidi Klum! and you still cheat on her! But look at it now! She is happily married.

  21.  #21Jackie on April 18, 2010 at 5:36 am

    Hi Maria – glad you stepped out to say Hi. I feel happy that you feel safe and good vibrations coming off of this board. I feel the same discomfort of speaking up and joining the group that seems so close, trying to find my place. It can be really tough- but everyone has been nice to me and I feel excited to make new friends where we can all remind each other to love ourselves during those drops into the pits and share experiences so we don’t feel like a lonely island.

    Welcome again … hugs 🙂 .

  22.  #22Rori Raye on April 18, 2010 at 10:16 am

    Maria, Thank you for your great comment, it means a lot to me, and “resting in the presence of god” – or simply of “resting in the love in your own heart” feels incredible. And, the story I heard was…Heidi Klum met Seal (her husband) when she was 8 mos pregnant and single (after the cheating man). He says he was deeply attracted to her, passing her in a hotel lobby, with the way she carried herself…Love, Rori

  23.  #23Rori Raye on April 18, 2010 at 10:17 am

    Paula – Thank you for this! I love this! Rori

  24.  #24Ingrid on April 18, 2010 at 10:23 am


    Yes, I also with the help of Rori have also learned not to be the “advice giver” all the time! What a relief! To “lean back” in all our relationships. It really makes you less anxious.

    You’re probably very much of a leader Shannon, so it’s a naturally inborn trait….right? That’s great for many things, but can be taxing on us personally sometimes.

    So nice to hear you share this, how you felt while out with friends last night. Thank u

  25.  #25Soignée on April 18, 2010 at 10:58 am

    It is another vibe, another feeling not giving an advice, only listening to other opinion, having compassion, trying to understand. it is a soft feeling.

  26.  #26Apple Jacks on April 18, 2010 at 11:20 am

    I noticed lately if I get in advice giving mode, it’s totally hard to give feeling messages. Lol, that makes me just stop. I just feel like this is a que to be quiet and still so that I can get back in touch with my heart and get out of my head.

    I feel amazed that this helps me connect with everyone around me, in all of my relationship. I feel so relieved, yet overwhelmed at how much more I have to learn.

  27.  #27dorothea on April 18, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    it feels great to give advice and tell other sirens how rori’s tools and messages work for me, when other sirens want a response to their comments. i don’t want to stop! it feels good all around. i have gotten some GREAT advice from other women here and feel right paying it forward and also feel delighted to be able to share something that worked positively for me.

  28.  #28Brenda on April 18, 2010 at 7:08 pm


    Thank you for this post…I made a huge mistake in my relationship a few days ago and I was feeling pretty bad. The man I have been involved with since December said he was confused and I had been waiting for him to come visit me for 2 months and he had to keep changing plans (still hasn’t been here). Well, after that I went out with another man, the man I was involved ask me if I slept with the new man and I told him yes…the man I’ve been involved with told me I BETRAYED him by not talking to him about this first, that I was even thinking about it (I actually wasn’t, it happened after some wine on the date) and ended our romance. It felt so good for a man to be paying attention to me, ect…but I do not love this man at all and I do love the man I have been involved with. I’ve written before about us, I’m a recording artist and he is a producer and we release music together…which will not stop…we’ve also become best friends…he did say, in a weird way he understands that I ended up in the arms of another man but that it’s my fault for not asking him for clarification about what he said about being “confused” he was talking about something else and he said he still loves me but we have to start over at the friendship level because he cannot trust me right now. I told the new guy I am trying to save my relationship and was very understanding and I am just torn up over the whole thing…

    But, now, he said he will not come visit me…I’m in the Pacific NW and he is in NYC and that we are just really good friends now and of course music production partners. I’m REALLY sad that he said he won’t come visit me…I should not have told him that I slept with this new guy because we have not slept together yet…have not even met in person, work remotely but he told me he was waiting for me and had forsaking all other women (and he is very known for his womanizing)…

    ugh…i cannot force him to come visit me…i’m so sad, I really love him and I DO wish I had talked to him first. he says it’s water under the bridge but he is “devastated” he said but still loves me.


  29.  #29Lisa on April 18, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    Hi Rori

    Thank you for your amazing words. I know what that feels like to be the “guru” and always be switching into boy energy to advise and help because that is my job. It is only because of your advice that I have been able to switch totally into my girl energy and find out stuff about myself in relationships. it has been an amazing journey and very tempting at times to go into my head and “fix” what is going on. If it’s ok I just feel very sad at the moment ( yikes …crying now…..feels very soft and weird) so I came on here just to riff and journal and feel it all out.

    I feel sad I feel alone sometimes. I have a man in my life and he is good to me, I stay in my feeling space/girl energy around him, he adores me. Yesterday he came over after we had a conversation about how much we both want to be married and have children and with no intention of pressure on me he just said he felt like he wanted it all liek YESTERDAY. I know how that feels. then he came over and was all sweet and nice – I had been on a coffee date the day before with another guy, so my guy says how he loves my honesty he loves how he knows where I am at all the time heloves how I didn’t feel touchy feely yesterday but i told him so he felt good about me telling him and being so honest. i felt bad because I had seen this other guy , i just told my guy A that I felt bad and I felt tired didn’t say why. Then i spoke to my Mum who has cancer and is 12,000 miles away and I felt worse – he knew I felt worse and just held the space for me so sweet and loving and I got IRRITATED god I was so irritated and i told him but couldn’t put my finger on why so I just let it go.

    I feel bad and I feel sad, i want to be married I want a man who adores me and here he is adoring me and wanting me and I want more. i think about my ex fiance who left me for someone else after 5 years together I think about how I felt when he kisses me and my guy A now says ” i love how I feel when i am kissing you” I just smile and say I don’t feel touchy feely today and apologise. He says its ok

    ouch I feel bitchy I feel angry and I feel irritated – why do I feel so critical of this guy when he does nothing wrong – he is so nice – what do i want ????? the bad guy ? the guy like my ex who treats me mean and makes me feel great one minute and shit the next aaaaagghhh what is wrong with that?? I know what I want and then when i get it I am looking for all the things wrong – “i don’t like his legs they are skinny, I don’t like his feet they are different sizes, I don’t like his gut , I don’t like the way he says silly stuff to me sometimes thinking it is funny, I don’t like the way he speaks when he eats” aagghhhhhh am I f%$#ng perfect !!!! NOOOOOOOOO! I feel shitty I feel soooooo angry i keep thinking about my ex but I have done with all this stuff – it was 18mths ago i spent so much time on my own getting over that shit why is it here again ??? thank you to those feelings for coming up again and giving me even more chance to heal I love my shitty feelings about my ex I love the ache and the endless raw deep feeling I have about it all , i love feeling good because someone loves me here and now. Help I feel lost and scared but yet i don;t want this guy’s help – he already said he loves being around me because i am the first woman he has been with that he doesn’t feel he needs to fix or save. Then why do I suddenly feel so bad, maybe i should let him go so he can find a nice person who doesn’t have all these shitty thoughts about him, critical awful thoughts that he probably doesn’t deserve. oh how I love my shitty bitchy feelings.


  30.  #30Lucy on April 18, 2010 at 7:54 pm

    Lisa — I know exactly how you feel! I had a guy JUST like that when I first started CD. Great guy, so sweet to me… kept telling me how honest and real I was (but he didn’t REALLY know me cuz he assumed I was only seeing him, and I wasn’t!)….It felt awful having him so in love with me when I didn’t feel anywhere near the same way. Same experience as you, too, about kissing and stuff. Really, all of what you wrote — just the same! I just didn’t feel “it” for him.

  31.  #31Lisa on April 18, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    Thank you SOOOOO much Lucy – even hearing that from another woman I just feel heard, like someone understands and that feels really good right now when i feel so confused about what to do.

  32.  #32Simply Shannon on April 18, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    Holy crap Lisa. I could have written your post. This is the exact reason why i started circular dating again. Gosh. My stomach feels hot just reading your post.

    What is the freakin’ message?!? I feel angry too.

    When I kiss Mr. Fab Kisser, I feel nothing. He’s still a great kisser but I feel… nothing. I don’t feel turned on. My feelings go silent. I feel the sensations in my mouth and sexual twinges but nothing else. It’s like my heart turns off. I feel disconnected.

    Well, it’s not just Mr. Fab Kisser. Kissing Mr. Masculine Man felt worse than nothing. He’s a bad kisser. Very much a “stick his tongue in my mouth and do nothing with it” kind of kisser. Ick.

    So in that regard, Mr. Fab Kisser at least kisses well.

  33.  #33Lisa on April 18, 2010 at 9:22 pm

    Yes thank you shannon. I feel validated. OMG this isn’t just happening to me. i am not this mega bitch who is dating mr nice guy to get over mr bad guy after all!!!

    And yes I think about the kissing factor too. I can ask for what I want and thats ok, My mum says “just kiss them Lisa – you can know so much from a kiss and maybe you need to kiss some frogs ….” But I want THAT kiss – that kiss with my ex – beautiful soft , two mouths and tongues perfectly entwined – but i don;t want what it brings with it YUCK – i don’t want to feel worthless i don’t want to feel like second best I want to be the one and then when i am the one to someone I want something else!!!! yikes – maybe just need to keep kissing and feeling and feeling all the yuck feelings too. sometimes the circular dating feels like cheating even thought I know its not – its hard for me to get my head around as I have been cheated on and it doesn’t feel good.

    i want to hear your stories it makes me feel good to hear of your experience, gives me sanity and peace

  34.  #34Tina on April 18, 2010 at 9:59 pm

    Oh god, I had a married man sorta flirting with me today. I had to give him my number for work stuff , I said call because im going home to take a nap then we’ll “talk.” He said oh your going home to put on some makeup and stuff, I said I”m looking for your support not a date hehe. I’m feel so relieved that I didnt get invited to the “all boys” meeting. I came home and slept most of the evening.

  35.  #35Tina on April 18, 2010 at 10:02 pm

    I stayed in my feelings as much as possible, but I found myself wanting to kick into “boy” energy, I kept going back and forth, boy girl boy girl ugh!

  36.  #36Tina on April 18, 2010 at 10:04 pm

    I feel rested and ready to rock and roll again 🙂

  37.  #37Tina on April 18, 2010 at 10:13 pm

    I know its like 2am here but I still have work to do lol. I was asked about my “beauty nap” lol and I said yes, my beauty naps come first and I feel rested, thank you. I must have said thank you at least three times today, today felt like thank you day for me 🙂 I was actually given a gift from a girl! haha woo hoo.

  38.  #38gina on April 18, 2010 at 10:37 pm

    feeling weird and bad – a character on Cougar Town said something about how sex with women over the age of 25 is disgusting…that sucks…

  39.  #39Daria on April 18, 2010 at 11:03 pm

    gina – wow that sounds really dumb! not you but just whoever said that haha. i am already over 27 and sex with me is great haha

  40.  #40Daria on April 18, 2010 at 11:32 pm

    i think 35 is a sexy age. my bellydance teacher nanna can pass for 17 to me and has for the past 10 years i danced with her. ok or a 17like.

    but i saw a grey streak in her hair!


  41.  #41Daria on April 18, 2010 at 11:35 pm

    Brenda –

    I would feel happy that he felt upset I slept with another man. I would not be pulled into begging for his love.

    I would feel glad he felt upset, maybe then hed step his lazy acting butt up and claim me. Thats what happens when men dont step up. Mope if you want to lazy.

    I would not give my power away. i would know that hes now MORE attracted to me because he can see i have options and will exercise them and am not gonna wait around for him to be lazy

    i am a woman in my power who CHOOSES men.

  42.  #42Tina on April 19, 2010 at 12:43 am

    I feel fear, I feel to much in my head, Im hungry too 🙂 food is good it nourishes my body and mind. I was out , in my head ugh! head thinking.

  43.  #43Tina on April 19, 2010 at 12:58 am

    Touching/feeling objects works great!

  44.  #44mary on April 19, 2010 at 1:23 am

    I feel happy! I’m helping my mom right now, in Texas, but when I get home, in a week, I have three guys actively wanting to start dating, and three or four more who want to meet. So easy for some of you! But big progress for Mary! Just as she watched R drift away, before her eyes, she’s watching her sad thoughts about him drift away, too! Thank you, little river that washes her sadness away with her man.

    Intermittent guy (cool cat who loves music) emailed last night to tell me that he wanted me to know that he doesn’t have much money. That’s why he’s been so evasively cool in his well-crafted, thoughtful (but intermittent) emails. His wife died and he raised four kids by himself on a small island, logging and working at a bakery and being a carpenter. He went into debt taking care of them and has just gotten free and clear. He just wanted to be upfront about that in case there was a disparity there. Would I like to get together again? Wow. I emailed him and told him I would like very much to look into the depths of his blue eyes, hear the soul of his music and feel the richness of his presence again. Could he make that happen?

    And a German guy told me that he has always wanted a woman who was a girly girl. Enter – Mary! And he was staring at my bangs, and told me that he thought the few that were growing out looked cute because they were a little longer, and I said I thought about clipping them back, and he said, “Oh, but would the clip have diamonds on it?” and I pulled one out of my purse and said, “You mean, like this?” and he nearly keeled over in shock.

    The third guy is a MUCH younger guy that I just like. I want to spend some more time with him.

    We’ll see what happens next.

    I don’t like making people unhappy. I don’t like not pleasing the men I’m dating. But… I WILL be the chooser of my next long-term relationship. And not the other way around. I will. And if it means dating more than one guy at a time, then… okay!

    Let the games begin.

  45.  #45Tina on April 19, 2010 at 1:36 am

    Oh, I love the sound of your diamond hairclip! Your right, let the games begin and I’ll FEEL myself around woohoooo. Ok, I just ate, touched some objects, drinking decaf coffee yeah life is good 🙂

  46.  #46Daria on April 19, 2010 at 2:14 am

    umm im learning this new energy medicine its super simple getting revealed to all humanity sigh i will have my dream yay no more prisons just healing watch the videos

    the one called Gregg Bradden and the future… blah blah he talks about how its being revealed now out of the monasteries about time

    hehe its that time hello world

  47.  #47Daria on April 19, 2010 at 2:16 am

  48.  #48Tina on April 19, 2010 at 5:36 am

    Little is more impressive, inspirational, or sexy, tina, than watching someone in the throes of action, driven by purpose, oblivious to all but their aim.

    Today has your name all over it –
    The Universe

  49.  #49Brenda on April 19, 2010 at 6:10 am

    Daria ~

    I hear what you are saying…and that i the way I guess I’ve been feeling. I DO have options, although, I don’t love this new guy…I don’t know WHAT to do but I guess I know what NOT to do and that is to beg…which I already did…so, I won’t do it anymore.

    I do feel really sad but in a way relieved I don’t have to deal with him breaking his promises to me anymore.

    I don’t know what else to say…


  50.  #50TaraLynn on April 19, 2010 at 9:50 am

    Hi, ladies!
    Doing CD. Looking for the message. It’s working! It really is free therapy. After an intensely emotional and extremely fascinating day in the company of J, I’m struggling not to give too much (any!) energy to it or invest emotionally, even though we both agreed it was “better than Disneyland.” (No sex, not even any kind of touching — this was just the conversation).
    P (the married guy from way back last year) is triggering all kinds of feelings. He played really harsh with me this past week, and I’m now kind of turned off to him, looking at him only as a messenger. I never would have thought that could happen, but thanks to Rori and the Tools, it has!
    Now feeling kind of alone and adrift, but aware that there are lots of messengers out there, even if they don’t look like “soulmate” or have that electric connection. I can learn things from them! 🙂

  51.  #51Rori Raye on April 19, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    TaraLynn, Welcome and YAAAYYYY!! This is how it works….Love, Rori

  52.  #52Aggy on April 20, 2010 at 6:49 am

    Waw! waw! Rori you rock! look for the message and appreciate the messenger….. hmm hmm
    Rori God bless you soo much. I want to make sure that your e-book really really sinks into me before I buy another program.

    Love you

  53.  #53gigi on April 22, 2010 at 6:38 am

    I have been attending “healing” sessions to do just that. I’ve tried before but (ineffectively) not truly getting over an abusive past. Just kept the abusers around (an on/off relationship for four plus years) and meeting more of the same, it seems. “My” needs seemed like second best importance!
    It’s been hard work but I feel progress in the PEACE I’ve found within and from that center strength, making better decisions for myself all around…in work, home and personal life. MY energy field is lightening up. I have surrounded myself with creative, giving people, not cheap “takers” for starters. My fear (being alone) has not manifested itself. People I hadn’t heard from for years have been reconnecting (etc.) and no surprise–I’m back to the old improved me!
    How this will result in my authentic love is coming to reality–a new, promising person in my life with some potential of being great trusting friends, maybe more? But I’ll be OK no matter what the outcome, I know it.

  54.  #54heartbeat on April 22, 2010 at 2:26 pm


  55.  #55Brenda on April 22, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    To Daria ~

    Well, I can’t say I feel “glad” about any of this but it did get him thinking…and he ended up saying, “I feel like I did something to you not the other way around.”

    We’re gonna be OK…the truth is, he IS working his ass off with his new record label promoting ME as his only main artist (works with other artists on one time basis type thing for his own material) and I love and appreciate him for that…

    We want to be married and have a family at some point and I accept that we have some work to do before we’re going to be together…it’s like being married to someone in the military, you’re going to have to accept this before you get into it…in my case, his battle is FOR ME and OUR music together specifically…and I think it’s romantic 🙂

    I’m at a point of acceptance…I’m at peace.


  56.  #56Lorelei on April 23, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Going back to Rori’s introduction to this thread, I really appreciate her invitation to be in girl mode here – I’m often in boy energy, and realised a few weeks ago how little I am in girl energy. I’ve felt quite uncomfortable with some of the more boy mode stuff on here, especially where the tone and content feel very different to Rori’s, and i notice that the more vulnerable I’m feeling, the worse these bits make me feel- I skip over them (which I’m free to do anyway, I know).

  57.  #57lynn on May 10, 2010 at 8:30 am

    Hi Rori and all the other Ladies as well,

    I’m new here and I’ve just purchased the Renew your Relationship CD series and am on # 4 but I just may be the exception to the rule here. I have been married for 17 years to a good man but I am afraid the magic and spark is just too far gone between us. We are 38 years old and have grown up together. He is my best friend but I don’t know if I am in love with him still. I feel small, unimportant and forgotten from him…and have for a while. I have told him and he reacts like it hurts him but then he is wonderful for a couple days and boom life happens again and here we are again. Its a viscious cycle and I don’t have the strength to keep going thru it. Example my mothers day gift….nothing. We have two girls 16 and 12…D R A M A …24/7 He gave my 16 year old $12.00 Saturday evening and said “go get your mom some cards from you two and me” …her being a girl …told me and said is there something else like ( my favorite) flowers that you want instead. I told her to just forget it. He broke my heart. Help please!

  58.  #58Rori Raye on May 10, 2010 at 9:39 am

    lynn – Welcome – and you’re not going to like my answer. The key to renewing a marriage is to start with the little things – and if you have my ebook (if you don’t – get it) – read the whole thing – then start with the chapter on APPRECIATION. Him giving your daughter money to get something was SOMETHING. He didn’t forget – that’s just how he did it – and when your daughter came to you…sweetly I assume…you must tell her what would make you happy – flowers, or an itunes gift certificate, or a starbucks gift certificate – or just a card – or whatever she asks – and then APPRECIATE her asking, and APPRECIATE your husband even remembering anything at all. Once he gets that you’re not going to make him wrong, or tell him to “forget it” if he can’t do stuff “right” – he’ll start being more motivated to please you more. This is how the good stuff starts…Love, Rori

  59.  #59Isa on August 25, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    I read this post when I am in a strange place emotionally. I feel bad about the quality of my last intimate encounter until I realized that I new intuitively that he was disconnected. He grumbled about paying for brunch in a joking manner that smacked of resentment. He stated that taking me out was a duty…it felt not good in a fuzzy way because I was blinded by other elements of the date. I felt and feel angry, helpless, sexually incompetent…until I realized it wasn’t my fault. I feel guilty about circular dating, and want to, then don’t want to when he asks me not…and everything inside me screams no. To just accept him to just make it work. Somewhere on the inside my inner child is weeping and like a blind woman touching and elephant I still don’t “see why.” It’s official I am triggered and feel lonely, rejected, and guilty. Uggh so odd.

    Then I read this post and am deeply grateful for it. It is packed with so many truths while simultaneously freeing me to turn from idealizing any guru.

    Thank you. I still hurt but am moving forward.

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