How to Give a Man and a New Relationship “Time” – Without “Waiting”

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hourglass fuzzyThe last thing in the world I want any woman to do is to WAIT for a man.

Putting your life – and I mean your LOVE LIFE, too – on “hold” while he’s “finding himself,” or “discovering things,” or “taking space to figure things out,” or “deciding if he’s really ready for a serious relationship,” even if he’s separated from you against his own desires for a work or family reason – if you are not married to him – is NOT a good thing.

So – what do you do while he’s doing his thing?  Without being “disloyal,” or “unfaithful,” or “not a good woman,” or putting all your eggs in his one basket and waiting around for him to make up his mind?

Here’s a letter from Gina, who’s stuck in this frustrating and upsetting situation (Gina refers to a comment from Nancy – I searched for it, but couldn’t find it…so we’ll have to imagine it):

“Hi Rori!  I am writing to ask you a question about my situation, which is similar to that of another writer, Nancy, who posted a question that appeared on your blog in August. My situation has a couple of differences, the key one being the timeframe difference, and I’m wondering if you can help me address them.

I’m 41, divorced, with a four-year-old daughter. Just like Nancy, I am in a wonderful relationship with a man whom I adore and who treats me royally–thoughtful, giving, initiating, in pursuit, kind–to both me and my child. We have been dating for four and a half months, and we speak of the future regularly. He has already purchased airline tickets to go back east to visit my family with me next July, has taken me on a romantic trip already, and mentions things such as hoping we are still together giggling and holding hands in a show 20 years from now, etc.

Also like Nancy, I would be thrilled beyond words to marry this man… although I know that it is premature to think of this four months into a relationship. My boyfriend, J, similar to Nancy’s man, informed me on date #2 that he will never even mention “the M word” until he has been with someone for a minimum of two years. He has repeated this sentiment a couple of times since.

I feel extremely uncomfortable with the idea of giving up two years or more while a man gets to take his time figuring out what to do with me. It bothered me the very first time he said it, and it doesn’t make me feel any better now. I don’t feel it’s fair that he gets to decide on the timeline for the relationship.

Since then we have had two conversations in which he brought up the issue by joking, making remarks to the effect that we could date for nine years and I would view that as perfectly normal (<–this following my sharing a story about my friend who foolishly waited for a man for nine years when everyone else [correctly] knew he would not commit to her.) During these conversations, I did think to say a few things I had read in your blog, such as, “I’m not sure why you think you could have me all to yourself for nine years.”

I made such remarks in a playful manner, and the discussions were light. However, he did ask once how long I would be willing to wait, and I sort of chickened out–didn’t have a firm response. The discussion really went no further than the fact that I considered four or five years to be ridiculous. He is talking about buying a house next summer, which would be just before the one-year-mark in our relationship. So clearly he has every intention of sticking to his “two-year minimum” plan.

I feel very torn and anxious at this point. On one hand, I want to give him the time he needs to heal from previous hurts (excuses, like you pointed out–and certainly not MY fault). I know I cannot, nor do I have any desire to, convince someone to want to put a marriage date on the table within the next year or less. I certainly do not want to lose this man, as I care deeply for him and know he does for me. Like Nancy, I am in what is by far the best relationship I’ve ever had. I know it’s early, but there are many signs already that never existed in previous ones that point to a positive future together. I am truly not interested in dating anyone else, and I enjoy the understanding of exclusivity we have.

On the other hand, I feel very anxious thinking about waiting and waiting… especially since my spiritual convictions are such that I wish to wait for marriage to sleep with him. (I have not been consistent in sexual self-control with him, having slept with him periodically, but he shares my belief system, and we try our best…) I want to have my own needs and dreams fulfilled and have been very good about “leaning back,” using feeling messages with him, and allowing him to take the lead to plan and do things that make me happy.

I am re-reading Nancy’s power speech and trying to write one of my own, but I feel it’s premature to give it at this point–do you??? But how can I avoid becoming like Nancy, finding myself writing to you a year from now when it could feel somewhat desperate to have to give him that speech? Right now my anxiety is only moderate… but ever-present. The idea of circular dating again right now freaks me out a bit and is unappealing…

I so greatly appreciate your thoughts on this. Thank you for all of your ideas and help! Your fan, Gina”

Here’s my answer:

Gina – the answer is – you don’t wait!!! You are sexually exclusive with this man (if you want to be – I make no judgments here about that, just want you to be physically safe and take care of yourself emotionally 100%), and you Circular Date.

Now – Circular Dating doesn’t have to mean you actually DATE someone else.

But the very fact that YOU consider that you are FREE until you are engaged will make you feel like you’re not waiting.

You can flirt, you can talk with other men, you can practice ALL my Tools with other men, Feeling Messages – ALL of it. You can go to classes and lectures and talk with men, you can basically feel free…

You will absolutely be blown away by how much this shifts your vibe so you feel independent and NOT stuck.

If, as you go along, you feel the need to actually go to coffee or for a walk with another man, you’ll make sure that your man understands what you’re doing…

I know it’s hard to imagine this working for you – most of us have been trained to be “true-blue” to a man, even when it’s not in our best interests, even when it’s completely not RIGHT – when the whole situation does NOT truly call for “true-blue-ness” – and even to things like simply making eye contact with and smiling at another man.

So to find out how this will work for you – you need to try it!

This is all about staying on your Bridge to Your Happy Ever After (in Commitment Blueprint program) and learning and practicing the nuts-and-bolts of Circular Dating (in Targeting Mr. Right).

You must absolutely stick with the “No Girlfriend” speech…so that he knows you do not consider yourself exclusively tied to him, but that you’ll let him know if you plan to actually date anyone else…and that you look forward to a glorious time with him discovering each other!

In other words – you’re all about having a good time – not about getting to the finish line…

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Nancy on January 12, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    Hi Rori,

    My comment from August is one of the 2 under “Commitment” on the sidebar of this page. You did a post with it.

    Thanks for all you give us here!


  2.  #2FEMENERGYLOVE on January 12, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    baby steps to not feeling guilty about circular dating.need to read all circular dating posts.

  3.  #3FEMENERGYLOVE on January 12, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    its also the strange unfamiliar feeling that all these men find me me.just as i am.i dont have to chase anyone down.guilty guilty guilty.coz i’m afraid i’ll disappoint them. EVEN WHEN NOTHING HAS BEEN PROMISED.

  4.  #4Nancy on January 12, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    Hi Gina,

    And welcome to my world! LOL It’s a wonderful world in many respects, as you know. I’m happy for you!

    I felt JUST like you do at 4.5 months. I actually thought he might have asked me by then and the waiting has gotten no easier since then. But the learning has been incredible and invaluable, yes, even I may be beginning to grow a backbone.
    I’ve gotten so much from this post that I don’t even know where to start. I have been trying to understand, all this time, exactly how circular dating fits into my relationship situation. I love my man and am so happy to have him to share things with and love what he adds to my life. I’m grateful for the relationship. But I have mornings when I get up, having slept alone in my bed for the 3rd night in a row, feeling pretty pissed off and resentful. And I regularly ask myself, “How long is too long to wait before he asks?” He gives me enough to keep me going, but I’m always off balance.

    Honestly, I never delivered that speech I wrote in August. It was just too scary. We had a big trip planned and paid for and I wanted to go enjoy that with him. Then the holidays came along. I just wrote about this two posts down on the “How To Avoid the Pain Of An Imaginary Relationship” post. And I just days ago gave him a less scary speech, to which he responded with feeling unappreciated and angry. He withdrew for 2 days. Ouch. He always plays the pressure card and I feel quite stuck. He’s ‘still assessing’, though he also makes comments when we’re feeling close like, ‘we’ll be laughing about this for the next 25 years’. My head is spinning!

    I use The Turn Around whenever I feel stuck and it always helps me feel better. I get better at it with each renewed resolve and attempt.

    Here’s what I have found un-helpful:

    -putting more effort into the relationship than he does, ie overfunctioning by going to his house more than he does mine. He works weekend evenings and do it’s more convenient if I go to his place. We have more time together that way. Regardless of the logistical reasoning, it always leaves me feeling undervalued. I have a new resolution as of 4 days ago only go occasionally; definitely less than he comes here.

    -pushing for anything. I find that when I resolve to stop talking about the relationship and my desire for forward movement, what ends up happening is that it comes squeaking out of me in little comments and I find myself feeling resentful. I’m still not sure what to do about this. Use of the power speech and feeling messages is surely the answer. I’m still getting the hang of it.

    -asking him to come over. He always will if I ask, but it always leaves me feeling undervalued and unpursued.

    -‘having the talk’ OMG what a disaster, each of the 2 times I tried. Left me feeling traumatized.

    -telling him that some other man flirted with me or asked me out (this actually has happened a couple of times since we met). he just looks at me and says ‘nice to know you have backup.’ I feel quite transparent and chagrinned. I still circular date and live my own life as much as I can muster up the energy to, by smiling and flirting when the opportunity arises, though I want to work on this more.

    -getting so wound up about the whole thing that I forget to enjoy my man and the absolutely wonderful experiences I have with him. I really am having a blast when I’m not fretting and worrying.

    When I was at 4, 5, 6 months with my man, I would listen to the last disc (I think it’s the last) of Blueprint and the scenario Rori gives about a woman who had been with her man for a year and a half and who was ‘plate throwing angry’ and so frustrated with her man and his lack of leading and comittment. I thought “I will NOT let that be me!!!” And I started trying to use these tools in earnest. I wish I was better at them. Seems I have to experience making all of the mistakes first hand in order to learn.

    Anyway, it’s interesting to now be the woman in the situation I swore I wouldn’t be in and to have you not want to be me. It’s truly very funny and I guess at times we just have to have a good sense of humor abput our love lives. I wish you a speedier pre-engagement than I have had! And please share your successes here with me. I need all the help I can get!


  5.  #5Nancy on January 12, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    I have a need for some feedback from all of you, please:

    As I beef up my Turn Around and stop going to my man’s home, what do I say to him when he asks me why?

    Do I say I’m wanting to live in reality and not be an unresponsible home owner myself, unwilling to continue to sacrifice my own life and obligations for the sake of doing all the work to keep our relationship going?

    Do I say the truth… that I feel taken for granted? And that I’m tired of putting my whole being into this thing when I have no real idea where it’s going?

    Do I just say I’m busy with stuff here and have too much to do to drop it and go there?

    What else might work well as a mini power speech when he asks? He’ll say his schedule is such that it just works better if I come to his house (we live 45 minutes apart and he works weekend eves).

    Thanks, ladies!


  6.  #6mary on January 12, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    how about something like, “this just feels better,” then drop it. if he keeps asking, you could say, “I don’t know. i’m just going with what feels good.”

  7.  #7Nancy on January 12, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    Thanks, mary. That feels very scary.

  8.  #8mary on January 12, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    Well, why do we always have to explain everything? I’m with Rori on that… let him wonder!

    It’ll get him thinking about you, rather than taking you for granted, or coming up with rebuttals for your explanations…

  9.  #9Aldonza on January 12, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    Just subscribing

  10.  #10mary on January 12, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    so easy to be over here, looking at YOUR situation…

    so please help me with MINE!

    i’m so sad and mad and furious that R is on holiday, and he hasn’t been in touch much. when we have talked, there wasn’t much to say – and that’s par! he’s not a talker. and i’m so GLAD about that. i hate talkers!

    he asked me to go with him, but i declined. i have THINGS TO DO.

    he’s a sex addict. he does things like puts ads on craigslist and meets with women. that’s all he’ll say, except that he doesn’t have intercourse with them.

    and – a little history here – he’s like a FORMER sex addict, if there is such a thing. he’s easing himself out of it. when we first started dating, he thought he was finished, but i think the urge just gets to him… and he broke up with me lots of times, then wanted me back…

    we were broken up for a year and a half, and now he’s back.

    i gave him my speech a few weeks ago, so we’ve agreed to see other people. i don’t have time right now! i seriously don’t! and i’m getting ready to go on a few big trips, so i’m just waiting it out until i’m available to date. but i released him.

    and i get the feeling that he’s been doing his thing on his holiday. it’s a small town here, so if he were to frequent massage parlors or prostitutes, or whatever, word would get around. so… where else could he do it except when he’s on holiday?

    ohhhhhhhhhhh… i know how this sounds.

    and yessssssssssssssss. i’m hopelessly stuck.

    i pick him up at the airport tomorrow evening. my plan is just to be fine with everything; to act happy! i know that’s not true to my feelings, but it is true to the way i want to feel. and it is true to what i think is best for me.

    i mean, i’m happy that i’m starting to accept who he is. i’m happy that i’ve released him to do his thing. i’m happy that i’m released to date other people! i’m happy that i’m getting on with my life and getting a career for myself, and that i haven’t allowed my fear to make me go on holiday with him, so that he won’t act out. i’ve let him go. he’s a free man now! and i’m happy about that!

    the thing that makes me unhappy is that sometimes i get the urge to check on him. and i do that by: checking the craigslist ads, looking online for women in the area where he’s on holiday, check the time when he calls me (and noticing that he calls me early in the evenings, rather than later… ???); just things like that.

    and those things are so unhealthy for me! have you ever read those ads on craigslist? have you ever checked out the women who work in massage parlors? (pardon me if any of you do that! i’m not trying to be judgmental here; i’m trying to say that i don’t appreciate some of those images.)

    i’m hoping to find a way to keep my focus on me. and what i’m doing! and how i’m feeling! and to communicate that whenever it’s appropriate!

    and i’d like to understand what is most appropriate to share with him…

    oh! i know! i have MIXED FEELINGS! mad at him; happy about the decisions i’m making!

    ? ? ?

  11.  #11Nancy on January 12, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    I get it a little better now and it feels better. I think I like it! I can always say ‘It just feels like what I want right now.’ Nice, thanks.

  12.  #12mary on January 12, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    and just reading through my post again, it occurred to me that we can choose which feelings to focus on, and which ones to communicate, can’t we?

    it’s like agreeing. sometimes it’s just good to agree with a guy. and you know what? there’s always SOMEthing he’s saying that you can go along with! even if it’s just 10%. he may be talking 90% bull, and then say 5% good stuff, and you can just say, “Hey! I agree with you there!” and it makes the evening go so well…

    so i can say i’m happy, when part of me is! YES, I’M FURIOUS RIGHT NOW! but mostly furious at myself for choosing this man to love! and giving him power over my feelings!

    but yes, i’m HAPPY right now, too! that i’m working my way out of it… as gradual as it is… it is slowly, steadily happening, and i don’t have to cut off communication with him to do it!

    it will be INTERESTING when he comes back. i can’t wait!

  13.  #13tinque on January 12, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    Mary – ??? I know you know better than to be torturing yourself with “checking up” on him.
    When the urges, the gremlins have you by the throat, stop them, shut them up, yell at them, shush them, whatever it takes. Have you tried pasting the fantasy?
    Plunge yourself into your studying. Focus on your trip. Anything put allowing these thoughts and actions.

  14.  #14mary on January 12, 2010 at 3:09 pm


    still wondering, though, if anyone has any insights as to how to get unstuck? maybe a little quicker?

  15.  #15tinque on January 12, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    Mary – Or just nod. You don’t always have to say something.
    Your interplay of emotions is fascinating. It’s lovely to see, you feeling all these things as fully as you can.

  16.  #16mary on January 12, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    tinque: what is pasting the fantasy? i want to try it!

  17.  #17tinque on January 12, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    Pasting the fantasy is still my favorite.

  18.  #18mary on January 12, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    oh, i do this checking up stuff all the time! it’s obsessive! i love my obsessiveness?

  19.  #19mary on January 12, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    but how?

  20.  #20mary on January 12, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    he probably drove over to vegas.

  21.  #21Nancy on January 12, 2010 at 3:12 pm


    You are doing the right thing for yourself! And I applaud your bravery in sharing and most of all in making a very good decision where R is concerned. I divorced my first husband after only 3 years because I discovered he was a sexual addict. Be very glad you found out and have a chance to avoid that kind of heartache! It’s a very serious thing and if he’ not in treatment, in some sort of real recovery, he is not a safe person to be sexual with. And if you’ve slept with him, go get tested!

    Before I married I hadn’t even ever heard of sexual addiction. And I’m a social worker! There were really no big clues there and my ex didn’t tell me anything about his problem. In fact, he continued to deny it, even as I divorced and left him. I read and read and saw 5 therapists trying to find someone who could shed some light on the nightmare I found myself in. It’s an extremely powerful addiction and unless you know that you know all that he is up to and how he acts out and unless he’s in recovery, you’re right – he could be doing anything. The things I learned about my ex were jaw dropping and at the time, heart stopping. And if I had told anyone else who knew him they were true, they wouldn’t have believed it of him, he seemed like such a nice normal guy.

    He gave me a disease. I had no idea. Luckily it wasn’t HIV, was treatable and I caught it early on. I still can’t even believe that happened in my life! Really, unless R gets into treatment… Run for the hills! Your physical well being actually could depend upon it. It is not something to be taken lightly.

    Don’t worry how it sounds. You aren’t the first woman to love a sexual addict. It’s not your issue, it’s his. Just be smart and don’t take chances with your health and well being. And the digging… don’t beat yourself up. You’re feeling the jealousy that comes with knowing you love a man who can’t possibly be faithful. It will subside and you’ll stop. I dug and dug and dug. I was married and absolutely HAD to know what I was dealing with. And he wasn’t sharing. Thank god I dug enough to get the picture. It was ugly and sad. And when I found my worst fears realized, I got out. And lived to tell the story!


  22.  #22tinque on January 12, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    You read about it, but maybe you forgot. It’s where you create the most beautiful scene you can imagine, all your favorite things to look at and/or do. Make it as vivid as you can, the details of color, images, action, smells, taste even. Whatever is feeling bad to you, paste this fantasy right over it. Feel it as if it’s real. Live it as if it’s real. Keep it with you to draw on anytime you need it.

  23.  #23mary on January 12, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    Thank you, Tinque.

    And thank you, Nancy.

    I’m not having sex with R.

    This is a difficult one, because I am CODEPENDENT! and I know it, and I’ve read the books, and I still get suckered into the stories, and the drama and the victims. I want to help! I truly do! I want to be the cheerleader! I want to say, “YOU CAN DO IT!”

    I gave up on my cocaine-addicted husband. Just let him go. And a few years later, he quit. So that’s great! And i feel myself giving up on R… it’s painful though.

    Very sad and heartbreaking and it feels really awful to focus on me! Maybe this holiday experience will help…


  24.  #24Lola on January 12, 2010 at 3:33 pm


    I love how you answered Nancy – just say ‘that’s how I feel’, we do always feel the need to say more, I’m working on being more minimal too.

    Also Mary i feel helpless to suggest things to you because still relatively new at this but I go through the same things like I’ve tried this and that so now go I’ll with flow more and circular date (or my version of it until real live ones come along).

    The only thing that is making a difference right now is that I’ve planned a course and I can visualise myself doing it (which I do), as a result I can visualise myself with a new job, a new routine, new friends, more money and it is running away with itself and then I wonder ‘where will I fit this man in now?’

    (I think this is what Tinque was suggesting)

    Feeling very supportive of you XXX

  25.  #25Lola on January 12, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    So now I’ll go with the flow more – that should have read : )

  26.  #26Robin on January 12, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    “what do you want to do tonight?” you’d think that would be an easy question 2 answer. Im going out w ex fav-ok hes still my fav but im not as laser focused-i could feel that if i said no that it would have been out of spite & i felt cactus-y imagining saying no. So i said yes-but i actually dont care what we do, just about anything would feel good. I could say dinner or a movie would feel great but it doesnt feel authentic & makes me feel like throwing up

  27.  #27Nancy on January 12, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    Mary, I don’t think you’re codependent. Wanting to help, wishing you could transform him doesn’t make you codependent. Finding a zillion excuses not to take care of yourself in the situation would make you codependent and I don’t see you doing that. I’ve heard women blame finances, their own health issues and a myriad of other things for staying with addicts who aren’t helping themselves in earnest and who continue to act out and to put their women at risk. You sound torn and like you’re grieving, which is completely appropriate to your situation. Be gentle with yourself.

  28.  #28Lola on January 12, 2010 at 3:40 pm


    I find this sort of thing difficult. If you are going to go anyway but don’t know how to respond cos you wish he would be doing the suggestions, Tinque came up with “I don’t know, what do you think?” for my man saying to me “What’s the itinerary for tonight?”

  29.  #29mary on January 12, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    thank you, Lola!


    when feminine energy man called me, he said, “I’d love to get together with you sometime.” I didn’t have any time coming up the next week, so I said, “How about tonight?” and he said, “Okay, what did you have in mind?”

    that’s the guy who lived over the mountain pass. i just called him and told him that our energy was the same, and i was looking for someone with an opposite energy. and we haven’t talked since.

    “what do you want to do tonight?” is almost a deal-breaker for me.

    but that’s just me!

  30.  #30Nancy on January 12, 2010 at 3:41 pm


    How about saying.. “Oh, I just want to enjoy being with you, surprise me”?

  31.  #31mary on January 12, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    oh, Nancy! that feels so wonderful and warm and lovely! (not good at this yet…) i don’t want to be codependent! and i was rather hard on my ex. i mean, i never lectured him, never tried to stop him, never threatened him. one day i just said, “i’ve decided that divorce is an option for me.” he said, “please give me a year to change.” so i said, “okay.” but i moved out. when the year was over, i said, “i don’t see any changes.” and he said, “please give me another year!” so i did. at the end of that year, i divorced him. and that was that.

  32.  #32mary on January 12, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    i guess that, in a way, it was a similar speech to R. “i’ve decided to keep my options open in case things don’t go long term with us…” is similar to “i’ve decided that divorce is an option for me.”

    you’re right, Linda! I’m just GRIEVING.

  33.  #33mary on January 12, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    Lola and Tinque: i’m going to work on visualizing what i want. that sounds like fun!

  34.  #34mary on January 12, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Nancy, that’s what R does! he always surprises me! he’s always clean, and his hair is still a little wet, with his best shirt on, and he’s on time, and his car is spiffed, and he has plans, and tickets, and plans after the plans, and… he also has QUESTIONS for me!

    i LOVE being with him.

    even if he is a player.

  35.  #35Lola on January 12, 2010 at 3:53 pm


    Yay! Also did you get a chance to do the Rori New Year Letter thing? That started me off feeling very different – very therapeutic and positive!

    If you are grieving and are into natural remedies, the homeopathic remedy Ignatia can be very helpful.


  36.  #36Nancy on January 12, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    mary, i think that’s one of the hardest and most disappointing things in life – to find a man who satisfies so many of our desires, so many items on our “checklist” and then to discover he’s got an out of control addiction. i know i felt like dying. then i thought, hey! if i can find one man with all those great qualities, then i can find another, this time, without an out of control addiction! and i did.

  37.  #37Tina on January 12, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    I”m not sure if this is a tool but I like the “make me a sandwich” tool, if he asks me to spend the night at his house, it is a “make me a sandwich” request and if I dont feel like making him a sandwich then I say NO I dont feel like it this weekend, I’m referring to the comment about sleeping at his house. He never makes requests only on occasion to call him when I get his message, which I do but first I say do I feel like making him a sandwich? lol, um no, I dont feel like it or oh ok. He asks mostly for dates and to pass me his wallet in the glove compartment, oh I can do that , me bad.

  38.  #38Robin on January 12, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    OMG Ladies thank you!! Mary, Nancy, Lola! Thank you s much! I feel happy that you took the time to read & respond to me!

    We’ve been out before where we had not set a specific thing to do, and as he’s opening the car door or starting the car, he’s asked ‘we could do x, or y, or z. What would you like to do?’ And that has felt ok, so this is mainly the reason why I felt ok with his question.

    I could feel his energy in person when he asked, so it felt ok through text as well.

    Hmm..interesting that when other guys ask this, I have felt in the past annoyed..

    Nancy “surprise me..” totally brilliant!

    Thats what I sent him, and now I feel excited, b/c I trust that what he chooses will feel good to me, and that I have the strength to voice my feelings if it doesnt feel good. And I feel excited and relieved to give up control and let him row the boat!

    Its gonna be a great night! I gave up control! YES!!!!

    Im gonna go kiss a tree!!!!!

  39.  #39mary on January 12, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    oh, i would like to hear more about “make me a sandwich!” where did you get that? i have all of rori’s stuff, but don’t remember it anywhere…

    does it mean that if i’m THINKING about saying yes to sleeping over, but i’m not sure… i just wonder whether or not I’d like to make him a sandwich?


    i’m not sure where the sandwich comes in… but it sounds really interesting! can you please explain?

  40.  #40Tina on January 12, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    My house is not the Do Drop Inn and I dont feel like allowing men to sleep here, I love and enjoy my space, my privacy, when I sleep over it’s sort of a mini vaca lol to be “taken care of” 🙂

  41.  #41Nancy on January 12, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    Robin, you are so cute! I love that feeling, too of giving it up and finding a way to let and encourage him to take control. I don’t wanna row!

  42.  #42Nancy on January 12, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    Tina I like the sound of “make me a sandwhich” too. Please ‘splain. How is him asking you to sleep over like asking you to make a sandwhich?

  43.  #43Tina on January 12, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    It’s more about his requests like if he asks for something, could be sexual like a blowjob for example. Tina, can you stay at my house tonight? translates to “make me a sandwich” Tina do you want to go to the hockey game this weekend translates to “make me a sandwich”

  44.  #44Tina on January 12, 2010 at 4:32 pm

    It’s about how I FEEL at the time of his request.

  45.  #45Tina on January 12, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    I dont FEEL like it, I dont want to.

  46.  #46Tina on January 12, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    I feel like making you a sandwich is not the same as him requesting you to make him a sandwich. “feeling” like making him a sandwich is over functioning 🙂

  47.  #47Tina on January 12, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    Rori posted it somewhere on this site, I have no idea where but it caught my eye, and I remembered it , funny .

  48.  #48Nancy on January 12, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    Ladies! I’m so amazed. Just by focusing more on myself over the weekend and practicing the IDEA of circular dating in my head and with you here, the following has happened:

    (nothing like this has happened in the last few months while I was overfunctioning and pushing my relationship)

    last night, a “bob wants to get to know you” e-mail from eharmony popped into my inbox. strange, because i got off the site when my man asked me to be exclusive. i wondered how that could happen, so i went to look and, somehow, there was a current request there, from bob, whoever he maybe. Then, just now I found a card from someone I didn’t recognize, opened it and found it’s from a man I met for dinner one time and then spoke on the phone with once or twice 2 years ago or so. just a nice card that says he wonders how I am, found my address in an old file, asking questions about my life now.

    WOW – circular dating is working. I have barely left my own doorstep and men are coming out of nowhere!

    Am I supposed to tell my man, or just sit back and enjoy it?

  49.  #49Nancy on January 12, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    ok, just to be sure i have it:

    I say, I feel like doing ____ for you = overfunctioning

    He asks, would you/do you want to/ could you please _____ and I say yes or no, depending on how I feel = not overfunctioning. It’s a request and I get to say I feel like it or no I don’t feel like it.

    Is that it?

  50.  #50Tina on January 12, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    Yup, Nancy.

  51.  #51Nancy on January 12, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    Actually, upon closer inspection, the man who sent the card is asking if I’m single or married!

  52.  #52Nancy on January 12, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    got it Tina, thanks. it helps!

  53.  #53Tina on January 12, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    If he gets angry, well to Effn bad. for me it at will at least make me look at my boundries if not strenghten them.

  54.  #54Tina on January 12, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    Single for now?

  55.  #55janjune on January 12, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    the sun was finally shining today and big sheets of ice and snow are sliding off the roof of my house.

    that’s how i feel with this program, like big “blocks” of information are dropping into my conscious-ness life.

    i’m so getting the “up into the sky”/”down into the depth of the sea” thing today.
    what rori says about what makes a woman attractive to a man, not looks, intelligence. etc.
    what men connect to, what they’re looking for and
    what leaves them cold —
    it’s information that is making *sense* today
    she keeps saying it in the posts, eletters, etc., but today the knowledge is mine!
    why a great job, great bod, great mind, great sex just doesn’t do it for a man
    – why they just won’t “settle” for a woman like that!!
    why they can walk away from a woman with all of the above and were never connected with her in the first place
    and knew she wasn’t the one from the very beginning, even though he liked her and had fun and had great sex.

    omg, my mind feels expanded.

    and how to go into the friend zone
    and how to stay out of it!
    what happens how it happens why i make it happen how it makes them feel.
    what they can “never” feel for me while i’m doing it.

    and getting outgirled,
    him leaning way more back than i ever did.
    why i didn’t lean back.
    why i didn’t receive.
    why he did.
    that he insisted he was going to lean back.
    and kept on insisting.
    and did.
    he outgirled me.

    he is not a girl.
    i am.
    i will never be outgirled again.

    even if it was with him, i will be the girl. im not giving my spot up again!

    i can do *girl*. better than any man. no man can do better girl than a woman. we have to GIVE it to them– let them have the spot.
    i feel “never again”.

    what rori is saying about “being”. just being. that’s all that’s required.
    …what to do if a man doesn’t want me to do that?

  56.  #56mary on January 12, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    hey janjune…

    i was tracking with you, about all the things a guy doesn’t want, but then you skipped the best part! talk about what he does want! i want to hear that again!

    i lost you at the friend zone.

  57.  #57janjune on January 12, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    hi mary,
    just what rori keeps saying they want!…
    all the stuff she keeps repeating over and over again in her posts, eletters, materials…

    it’s just now *really* sinking into my heart and spirit… 🙂

  58.  #58janjune on January 12, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    oh, yeh,
    …and if they DON’T want that…


  59.  #59janjune on January 12, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    okay im ready to date right now!

    wish i was sitting in a restaurant with one Right Now.
    i’d love to be practicing!… haha!!

    ooooh i just love men!
    sooooo much.

  60.  #60janjune on January 12, 2010 at 7:42 pm


    thinking back to the two men i went out with last fall trying to cirecular date, they *did* both respond to what i was doing.
    *i* just didn’t know what i was doing.
    they seemed to like it though…
    one told me every time we talked, “I like how you talk a little bit slow likke that>” A rori Tool.
    they were both kind of girly which turned me off but i see that now as them trying to be polite or something, offering, first, to allow me to make the choices. but at the time i was looking for a stepping up kind of guy and didn’t know how to lead thme into that like i might have the Tools to do now.
    so they were just doing the PC thing at the time. i think they felt like they were making me feel comfortable to make the choices…

    i didn’t know what i was doing… was just starting to learn this. now i am feeling the feeling of wanting a “do-over”.
    …with the old bf…. “hey, just look how things have changed”
    …. uh but no… not going there….

    anyway, it was kind of scary now that i think back to see how men *do* respond. it did scare me. frighten me a bit, i just didn’t know what to do.
    didn’t know what i was doing.

    it does feel good to look back on it and see the responses. next time they’ll be more recognizable and they don’t feel as frightening now.
    it was kind of overwhelming.

    it IS kind of overwhelming the way men respond .
    like the young man at sprint today who was waiting on me…very much my junior. kept Leaning Over the counter! then came around the counter to “help” me with my papers! i thought he was going to put his arm around my waist when he walked me back to the back of the store to talk to the asst mgr.!
    it was cute and funny and fun.
    that was cute at sprint but i honestly don’t know that i won’t tense up and get scared if that starts happening on a date….

    okay, no i don’t think i will.
    i think i will just lean back and enjoy it.

  61.  #61Sherry on January 12, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    That is where I get confused – how to lead a guy in to rowing!! I have been a single mom for 12 years now and am used to doing everything on my own. I actually enjoyed it! Now that I am trying to circular date, it is confusing for me to not “pick up the slack.” It’s how I have lived and still have to live when I’m not on a date. I guess it just doesn’t come natural to me anymore, and I am lost on how not to be the person who makes decisions. I don’t want to be that person all the time!

  62.  #62mary on January 12, 2010 at 8:37 pm


    I would love it if you elaborated! Please pardon me, but something’s wrong and I can’t get the eletters… or were you referring to a particular post I could read again?

  63.  #63Kay on January 12, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    I love the way you spoke about outgirling a man janjune. I think we all struggle with this because so many of us are pushed into masculine energy daily and so we end up carrying that energy into our love relationships with men.

    Mary I feel for you but I almost feel like you are your own worse enemy, you are building up resentment every day, I fear you will inevitably explode, I can only imagine how uncomfortable your making him feel as well. I’m no expert about love but there has to be a level of honesty and vulnerability and a willingness to lose, if you continue on this way you will be a few years in it anyway with no marriage prospects. Your desperation will only grow and grow until you lose him anyway.

    Tina thank you thank you, I love the “make me a sandwich” tool…I will be using this from here on out.

    I miss the days when I could say no with no guilt or hesitation. Were did all that little girl it’s about me energy go?

  64.  #64mary on January 12, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    Hi Kay. I’m interested in your comment! What would you do if you were me? Or what do you see that I could do that would help and not hinder? I’d love to hear some more of your insight.

  65.  #65Lisa on January 12, 2010 at 9:14 pm

    Someone asked earlier what to do if your man chides you about having “one on the back burner.”

    Raise up your hand, stare at it incredulously for a moment, then say, “I don’t see a ring on that finger, DO YOU?!!” I used that to silence the ex- after any number of offenses (“You don’t do what I say; you don’t “obey”; you’re keeping them on the back burner”.)

    Of course, saying it was the easy part. The reality was, I was in an imaginary relationship, so anything I did would not have a good outcome. He was a cheat and an abuser.

    So as Rori says, we don’t need to get hung up on what we say. We don’t have to explain ourselves — we just have to feel our feelings, and convey them. Oh, and when we are ready, choose real men.

    As someone else said, she finds opportunity coming to her door when she shifts her vibe. I find the same thing. It might not be a man — but it is some bounty. A male friend brought me some food today; a woman in a class brought me the offer of living in her daughter’s suite in Austria! These beautiful things are all-round, within miles of my place. For me, the key is to be ready (mentally and physically ready) to be receptive.

    For me, it is all about energy. There is something to a “scarcity mentality” when we latch onto a man. It limits us and him. By staying open — what Rori terms CD, others have called, “Duty dating” — our spirit gets nourished, and we become strong.

    I see this now. I became energetically dissipated over the 7 futile years I spent hanging on to a retreating man. Rori says closure is overrated, and she is right. I am not wasting any time on explanations, final talks, etc.

    I like janjune’s “i will never be outgirled again.” Mine was a girly-man, under the faux Marlboro demeanor. That’s another giveaway: When the projection doesn’t mesh with the internal actuality. I will seek personality integration, in the future.

    As I worked with him and deferred many payoffs, there are several things due me, and I shall get them! I will not anguish and suffer any longer. As the Army man taught me, “Get yer shit, and get!” So that’s where I am — cashing out, moving on.

    I feel like busting out in song:

    Keep movin’, movin’, movin’,
    Though they’re disapprovin’,
    Keep them doggies movin’ Rawhide!
    Don’t try to understand ’em,
    Just rope and throw and grab ’em,
    Soon we’ll be living high and wide.
    Boy my heart’s calculatin’
    My true love will be waitin’, be waiting at the end of my ride.

    Move ’em on, head ’em up,
    Head ’em up, move ’em out,
    Move ’em on, head ’em out Rawhide!
    Set ’em out, ride ’em in
    Ride ’em in, let ’em out,
    Cut ’em out, ride ’em in — Rawhide!

  66.  #66Kay on January 12, 2010 at 9:23 pm

    Sorry I said Mary when I meant to say Gina…

    Mary I just feel like telling you to run, run fast, I feel sad for you, sad that you are stuck on a man with a sex addiction and probably a whole gang of other issues that you know nothing about. I almost feel like your being selfish because it’s not about him really, it’s about how you feel about how he makes you feel. Maybe some day you will get the courage to walk away, be safe.

  67.  #67Kay on January 12, 2010 at 9:33 pm

    Hi Kay. I’m interested in your comment! What would you do if you were me? Or what do you see that I could do that would help and not hinder? I’d love to hear some more of your insight.

    I’m not sure you can help a person like this nor understand there addiction, especially sexual addiction. I know how co-dependence makes us feel like were helping someone but in reality were just trying to gain a sense of self through others, yes I say we because I’m a former co-dependent person.

    We tell ourselves we are helping by loving a person exactly as they are but we also have a deep seated need to be approved by the person we help and give too, really deep down were just clinging and holding onto that person to gain a sense of identity and to hug ourselves so we too can feel alive and important.

    I can’t tell you what you should do but if it were me being a person that can relate to co-dependence I would not date him, I would stay out of his life and I would cut ties until I was strong enough to deal with him without trying to help him.

    I still deal with my issues, I know all too well the feeling of wanting to check behind a man but it’s not healthy.

    He’s just a symptom to your problem and issues, you use him as a soothing aid, someone to take away your fears temporarily, he’s your addiction, so in order to stop the obsessing you have to start to heal yourself from within, look at the scary stuff, face it, it’s really not that scary once you do face your issues…it’s a process but if you stick with Rori and do the work you will get unstuck.

  68.  #68mary on January 12, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    Ah! thanks for the clarification!

    I see what you’re saying about being selfish, but no. There is some true love there. I know; I know. All these stories on this blog! And everyone thinks it’s true love. So I’m no different than anyone else! There’s something I love very deeply about him (besides being treated so royally – except when he goes on vacation and doesn’t call), and I believe the love is mutual. He says I’m the love of his life.

    It does feel slightly treacherous and dangerous. And yes. Maybe I will get the courage to walk away. I think that when my life smooths out and I can spend the time dating, things will improve dramatically. I know it!

    Tinque keeps saying, “You don’t have to make a decision today.” And that’s so comforting.

    I love this new thing coming up in me that wants to accept him, just as he is. All the flaws and all. Is that something to worry about? It seems so GOOD. Like it’s from God, or something. I’m accepting him, and with that acceptance, giving him freedom and myself freedom too. And I KNOW that means no more checking on him! Believe it or not, the tendency is losing its stronghold. I have been wishing with all my heart that things were different. But now I’m wishing with all my heart that I can rise to the occasion of the way things really are! It’s kind of liberating. It’s kind of wonderful. It sort of opens up the future into something really interesting, that I have no control over! I’m kind of wondering what will happen, even when I pick him up at the airport!

    Oh! that’s tomorrow! 🙂

  69.  #69Kay on January 12, 2010 at 9:39 pm

    Also I wanted to say I feel like your in the way of his process, your interfering and adding on more emotional conflict to his life because your not healthy emotionally enough to be with a man like this. You pretend to not be mad but in reality your energy is most likely creating bad feelings in him that creates more distance and emotional conflict for him, if your not happy around him then why be there? Your not really helping him until your agenda is out of the way.

    I hope that doesn’t offend you or anyone else, I’m really sincere and I’m not here to hurt anyone.

  70.  #70mary on January 12, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    Oh, no! I’m appreciating it very much! How can I find out more about my agenda? Very curious about that!

    And I’m not sure I’ll be pretending. I was asking for feedback about that. Maybe I SHOULD just decide that he’s not for me. He was kind of rude on the phone the other night.

    Could you be more specific? Maybe talk about the vacation, and the fact that he didn’t call me, and that I THINK it’s because he’s trying to hook up with women, but maybe not! but it’s weird that he hasn’t called – he ALWAYS CALLS.

    Possibly he’s had an epiphany?

  71.  #71mary on January 12, 2010 at 9:44 pm

    I know; it doesn’t matter what he’s doing or what he’s thinking. It matters what I’m feeling. And I’m all over the map with different feelings. How to choose, how to choose?

  72.  #72mary on January 12, 2010 at 9:50 pm


  73.  #73mary on January 12, 2010 at 9:52 pm

    If I was emotionally healthy enough to be with a man like this, what would it look like?

  74.  #74mary on January 12, 2010 at 9:53 pm

    I’m not getting offended here; i feel you’re onto something! it feels like it’s hitting home, but i’m not sure what it is…

  75.  #75Kay on January 12, 2010 at 9:55 pm

    Saying your the love of his life and treating you that way is 2 different things. I just sense your sort of stuck in the woods and can’t see the forest from the tree’s, hopefully you will work your way out and clarity will come.

    Let me elaborate, if I can sense your emotions are all over the place well he can too, men really get annoyed with that kind of negative energy and just want to be away from it. You have to get grounded and make a decision, if your all in than be all in this means coming to terms with the fact that people will not approve of your decision to be with a man with a sexual addiction and live with it. Then you have to research what it’s like being with this kind of man, are they moody, are they aloof and distance and what triggers that type of behavior. I sense you don’t really KNOW what it means to be with a man like this, your looking at how he makes you feel and not looking at the most important thing which is who is this man, what brought him to this addiction, does he even want to be loved and cared for by anyone, who he is and how is will effect your entire life and are you really ready for that?

    He’s disconnected spiritually, emotionally, I’m not sure if you know how to love a man like that.

    It’s not enough to love and accept him, that’s just part of it, you must know who he is as a person and what triggers his addictions and how his addiction will effect you mentally, emotionally, physically and spiritually. Does he bring out the best in you or the worst and when he brings out the worst what support system do you have to get anchored emotionally so you can do what’s best for you.

  76.  #76mary on January 12, 2010 at 10:03 pm


    Thank you so much.

    I am blown away.

    You’re right. None of my friends; none of my family like this guy. I talked with two counselors. One said that I’d have to be prepared with a prenup that said that we divorce immediately if there’s an infidelity. And the other therapist said that I’d have to have some kind of system where withholding love and affection has some kind of monetary penalty. He says that money is the only thing that talks with sex addicts.

    Kay, you keep saying that I don’t know how to love a man like that. Do you? Do you know anyone who does?

    He won’t talk to me about his addictions, and what triggers them, etc.

    I feel like I’m in no-man’s land with him. It doesn’t seem possible that a marriage could work. We’re too attracted to each other to just be friends. We were apart for almost two years, and both of us pined over the other one for all that time.

    I’ve been working on my issues during the time alone. Not even allowing myself to date. And I’ve learned a lot! But there’s still this deep bond… I don’t know what to do about the bond.

    Just walk away and try to ignore it?

    Thank you so much for the time, everyone!

  77.  #77mary on January 12, 2010 at 10:04 pm

    Thank you so much, Kay…

  78.  #78Lisa on January 12, 2010 at 10:06 pm


    If I may share my experience with a porn-addicted, sex-addict. I, too, thought to “just accept him,” as the offenses were becoming too much to bear. Like an addict or a serial killer, he was ramping up his offenses to get the same fix, and I was checking everywhere for condoms and addresses. It felt like acceptance might lift my burden.

    What I came to understand was, I was FURIOUS. I did not feel the extent of these profound emotions until I left.

    Fury, sadness, disappointment, rejection — such depths i had no idea were within me!!! I kept them stuffed down, and just ignored everything. Or so I thought.

    Kay is right, you (and I) are not strong enough to co-exist in such a situation, and not suffer continued damage. You do him no honor, either, by coexisting or martyring yourself. It is not love. It is addiction.

    Go to a local women’s shelter for some excellent counseling from people who know, if you can. I did. You will only stop obsessing when you shift the focus to yourself, and ask what it is you need.

    Right now, you need a man to batter you psychologically. I invite you on my path to heal yourself and become well. His illness will no longer plague you.

    You will have too much else to take your attention.

  79.  #79mary on January 12, 2010 at 10:09 pm

    Marriage? No.
    Friends? No.
    Apart? Excruciating. His word: Agony.
    Lovers? No. He has a disease.
    Daters? Well, this is where we are for now.

    But you’re right; he’s very attuned to his feelings and he feels that my energy is everywhere. It confuses him and stresses him out. Just like you said. I don’t know how to just give up. I did that, and was out dancing, and he saw us and came roaring back into my life. I could have said no, but I really love him. I really love to spend time with him. He’s different. He’s unusually deep. He’s an amazing thinker. He loves me. He just … likes variety …

  80.  #80mary on January 12, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    Lisa and Kay,

    This is earth-shattering stuff for me. Really life-changing. Thank you for bearing with me. I feel like crying.

    Do you both think I should just tell him goodbye? (I’m sorry; it’s that important. I just want you to spell it out.)

  81.  #81mary on January 12, 2010 at 10:13 pm

    I feel humiliated, like I’m groveling around in the dirt, saying, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE! talk to me!!!!

  82.  #82Kay on January 12, 2010 at 10:17 pm

    Kay, you keep saying that I don’t know how to love a man like that. Do you? Do you know anyone who does?

    Honestly I have loved a man like this and I failed, I lost myself, I didn’t take care of myself first and the end result was a break up. He had mental disorders along side sexual addiction, highly narcissistic and yes he was diagnosed. I did not know how to love him, I didn’t know how to deal with any of it. I learned some really powerful lessons and I wouldn’t change it for the world but the one thing I always said to myself if I would have asked myself what does it mean to be with a man with these kind of issues and really grasped how much my life would change, how much of a negative spiritually dark impact it would have on my life I would have walked away.

    I had the rose colored glasses on, I pined away for this man and I worked hard to break the spell he had over me, I found Rori and Tigress and a few other relationship gurus and I worked hard at it and began to circular date and I stopped tip toeing over his feelings, just said exactly how I felt, no more wondering if I hurt him, no more being the masculine energy, yep he got mad, growled, snarled but I stopped putting him first and he just fell right out of my life, slipped away just like that.

    He won’t talk to me about his addictions, and what triggers them, etc.

    Mine would not talk about his addictions either, he been too a mental institution, pathological liar and that was it for me, once a person can’t tell the truth then what’s the point.

    To understand the impact this man will have on your life you will need more than therapy, you will need al anon or some kind of love/sex addiction support group. Which means you have to get online and find websites with other women/men that deal with those issues and IMO it’s a living hell, it’s a toxic dance of addiction chaos and conflict. More sadness than happiness.

    You been here once before why ever would you want to do it again puzzles me.

  83.  #83Kay on January 12, 2010 at 10:25 pm

    Do you both think I should just tell him goodbye? (I’m sorry; it’s that important. I just want you to spell it out.)

    It’s not for us to say leave, you have to own your own life. You have to be the one that says it’s time to go. Yes I think you should leave, I think you should stop dancing with this toxic man but see Mary it’s not that simple, if you keep saying you love him then my words mean nothing, you can’t let us accept responsibility for a decision you should be making yourself. Maybe your not ready to leave, I’m surely not here to make you feel bad about that.

    You leave when you feel it’s time to go, it’s not enough for us to say leave, I could sit here all night and say Mary it’s time to go, it’s time to leave but if that isn’t how you feel your going to stay.

    Lisa, I just wanted to say your post touched me, very powerful and true, I see you been there too. I was so confused when I got out, It took what seemed like forever to figure out who I was, how I felt and yes I felt intense anger, I was furious for allowing myself to go down that dark path, just so I could say I’m good enough…Would have been so much easier to say I’m good enough100xs a day until I believed it rather than go through that hell.

  84.  #84mary on January 12, 2010 at 10:26 pm

    i got blindsided. i didn’t know about it until i loved him. he didn’t tell me until we had dated for about six months. probably some THING inside me that knew and targeted him as the perfect man for me.


    this is very helpful.

    the part about the “negatively dark spiritual impact…” i think i feel that. something is gripping me and keeping me from being able to shake him off. i’ve read all that stuff about narcissism. i’ve read everything there is to read about sex addicts. and sexual anorexia. and still… he keeps me around with his vulnerability. it is a very dark world where he lives. and he says that when he acts out, he hates himself. i have never ever been exposed to this kind of darkness before. i didn’t know enough to be scared. “rose colored glasses!”

    Lisa: “Kay is right, you (and I) are not strong enough to co-exist in such a situation, and not suffer continued damage. You do him no honor, either, by coexisting or martyring yourself. It is not love. It is addiction.”

    Wow. I feel convicted!

    How would someone love him? Who could do it? How could I leave him if no one could love him?

  85.  #85mary on January 12, 2010 at 10:29 pm

    i think i’m getting ready… something is happening! i keep calling it acceptance. maybe it’s an acceptance of the situation? and that i can’t change it?

  86.  #86mary on January 12, 2010 at 10:30 pm

    maybe it’s wisdom.

  87.  #87mary on January 12, 2010 at 10:31 pm

    this discussion is changing my life forever.

    i feel so much gratitude. kay. lisa.

  88.  #88laughing goddess on January 12, 2010 at 10:31 pm

    Hey Mary!

    I feel inspired to recommend Abraham-Hick’s new book The Vortex.

    It’s about relationships and compliments Rori’s work well.

  89.  #89mary on January 12, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    okay. i’ll read it! THANK YOU.

  90.  #90Kay on January 12, 2010 at 10:34 pm

    How would someone love him? Who could do it? How could I leave him if no one could love him?

    You can love him but it won’t change a thing, his addiction will always come first. He seems to have the ability to mold himself into your dream man and then purge himself sexually with random sex, many sex addicts (addicts with other addictions) do this.

    You don’t know him, you know the person he let’s you see, he gives you the dream and you stay but to be with him 24/7 is when you see the reality of who he is truly is, a sick person that needs professional help.

    I’m not doubting what you feel but per my experience people with these kind of addictions create many connections like this…very addictive and addiction is not love.

  91.  #91mary on January 12, 2010 at 10:37 pm

    okay. i’m addicted. and i want to be healed.

    now what?

    al-anon, again?

  92.  #92Kay on January 12, 2010 at 10:37 pm

    I’m already loving the website to this book, I must read it, It’s like the book The Secret, regarding law of attraction.

  93.  #93mary on January 12, 2010 at 10:39 pm

    and you’re right about the 24/7. since i’ve been with him this time around, I’ve seen a different side to him. an uncaring, negative side. and i feel very unhappy to be around him. i don’t KNOW what i’m doing with him! except that i’m obsesssed, or something. it’s embarrassing.

  94.  #94Lisa on January 12, 2010 at 10:39 pm


    Mine was a somatic narcissist (diagnosed) as well, I see we understand each other. It is a deep and dark spiritual void. I have been preparing my escape for some time. It was last month, and the support which has come to me has been both humbling, awesome and sustaining. This site is a large part of it.

    You cannot get away without plans and support, Mary, when you are ready to do this. You are seduced by this dark evil now. You think it is a daring game. You are playing Russian roulette with your soul. I thought I was quite stoic and strong, but I died a little every day.

    You have all the power, once you realize it. Like Kay says, this “great love” will disappear into his rat hole, and you will feel a fool, in addition to everything else.

    Thanks, Kay, for the 12-step suggestion. That is also something for me to check out. I’m doing o.k. But I reassert, I knew for years my soul was dying there. I cry now to think of how I allowed myself to be brutalized. A narcissist doesn’t love you, because he doesn’t love himself. He feels nothing. He is a shell.

    You will come to pity him, after your fury.

  95.  #95mary on January 12, 2010 at 10:39 pm

    loving the website to this book?

  96.  #96mary on January 12, 2010 at 10:39 pm

    The Vortex?

  97.  #97mary on January 12, 2010 at 10:41 pm

    and how to get out?

  98.  #98Kay on January 12, 2010 at 10:51 pm

    Yes lisa he too was a somatic narcissist with schizophrenic tratis amongst a few other issues and after him I attracted a cerebral narcissist both different but it was all a living nightmare. I too thought I could exist with men like this and it just wasn’t possible for me to do it.

    I’m happy to meet someone that understands the addiction and the total insanity these kind of relationships bring.

    I agree support is needed, I was determined to get out and let it go and I did and I have but at the same time I won’t allow myself to forget and over look anything anymore LOL guess that’s something I have to work on, letting some things slide but I’m not neurotic just more observant.

    Be safe Lisa and thank god you slowly got out and had some kind of support, it really is a slow spiritual death, it takes tons of patience to recover from it.

    Thanks for sharing (:

  99.  #99Kay on January 12, 2010 at 10:55 pm

    Mary if you live with this man, then you have to slowly get out, find a woman’s shelter and speak with someone there, you don’t have to leave right away, it’s a slow process and they will be happy to help you plan it out, they really can help you create an exit plan safely, if you don’t live with him then you have to go no contact, there is a great sight I found called baggage reclaim, she has an ebook that clearly spell out what no contact is and how to implement it into your life.

    This is a great sight filled with women such as yourself.

  100.  #100mary on January 12, 2010 at 10:58 pm

    Thank you, Kay. Thank you, Lisa. Thank you, Laughing Goddess. Thank you, Tinque. Thank you, Daria. Thank you, Rori.

  101.  #101Kay on January 12, 2010 at 11:11 pm

    Your welcome Mary. Whatever you decide be it stay or leave you have plenty of emotional support here. Some of us know how hard it is to leave and how hard it is to stay, please be patient the answer will come and you will do what’s best for you, it may not seem like it now but there will come a time when you will.

  102.  #102Lisa on January 12, 2010 at 11:16 pm


    Thank you for your good wishes. I send them to you, also. Let us live in light and goodness.

    Ironic, in my case, he said his mother was schizophrenic, but certainly he had some of these traits, too. It was totally insane. Before I found the label in a book, I had already labeled his behavior as “crazy-making”.

    Your typical woman would run for the hills. For those of us who stay, we begin to buy into his scenario, and it is all HIS scenario. We make the best of it, and it becomes our new “normal”.

    So I am in the process of re-calibrating my normal. My boundaries were way too far out to begin with.

    As I was prepping to leave, I had an abundance of instructive dreams. I’ll share two:

    [1] I was a fish, being offered as sacrifice to a martyred man. I was dying, but still alive. People kept saying, “She will not swallow anything, nor put anything behind her.” It was my subconscious telling me I’d had my fill, I could ingest no more, and was unwilling to live in denial any longer.

    I was wasting my time.

    [2] A thought: If Jesus has martyred himself and not redeemed this man, how will my martyrdom help? Let Jesus be the last martyr. I was humbled by my powerlessness.

    The only power I had was to leave, and I took it.

  103.  #103mary on January 12, 2010 at 11:16 pm


    I just bought the No Contact Rule and Mr. Unavailable and The Fallback Girl.

    I sense some real help here. Thank you so much! I was out of contact with R since last January. I’m simply stopped returning emails, did not pick up the phone, and I shredded his letters. Guess what? He put $3,000 into my bank account to get my attention! That’s when I called Sam, author of the narcissist website, and talked with him. He was very helpful!

    I wrote a post yesterday (i think), and I said that my nasty voices = his objections to me. I spent all year last year dealing with my nasty voices, and his objections to me don’t hurt so much any more. And they don’t bind me to him any more.

    So maybe I’m getting better. I’ll read these, and the Vortex, and see what else I can learn.

    Signing off now… thank you for tonight. This was very, very helpful.

  104.  #104mary on January 12, 2010 at 11:18 pm

    Wow Lisa, those dreams… the only power I had was to leave, and I took it. Wow.

  105.  #105laughing goddess on January 13, 2010 at 12:12 am

    Good luck Mary! I know you will figure it out what is best for you.

    I have two thoughts…

    One is, from what I read in your posts you don’t know that he has actually done anything (other than not call you). Maybe he has, maybe he hasn’t but it seems a little unfair to jump to conclusions. It seems important to me to be aware of where our minds can take us. They can make up stories and we drive ourselves nuts. Perhaps it’s intuition or maybe it’s a nasty voice. I am forever the optimist.

    Second thing is, something that helped me get the strength to leave a situation that wasn’t working for me was to remember all the past men I thought were so great and who broke my heart. When I look back now I can see how glad I am that it didn’t work out. I can see that we weren’t a match. I realized that I would probably eventually feel the same about this guy. It helped break the spell and I was able to move on.

    I truly believe that we can create our own reality…even with men. But sometimes we have so much resistance built up towards one man that it’s easier to let go and let god bring us a new one that we can let in easier.

    It sounds to me that you have so much doubt (resistance) that this man could overcome his addiction that even if he has, you wouldn’t be able to see it. If you can’t just accept him and his history then just do yourself a favor and move on. It really has nothing to do with him. He could be a devil or an angel. It’s all about your perspective.

    I feel very boyish energy with the way I wrote this post. I feel scared I may trigger someone with my perspective. I feel hopeful I can help in some way.

  106.  #106dorothea on January 13, 2010 at 12:18 am

    i just met an online guy for the first time. it was also my first time meeting anyone from the internet specifically for dating. i had a great time though it felt awkward as shit so i couldn’t always be present.

    hmmm and then he sent no obvious signals of wanting to go out with me again. he said let’s hang out again, call me. but whatever. now i lean back and do nothing at all. oh oops i forgot his name. he’s gonna have to call me and make a move to remind me what his name is.

  107.  #107laughing goddess on January 13, 2010 at 12:27 am

    One more thought Mary 🙂

    You know the quote

    “become the change you want to see in the world”

    Well, he has this sex addiction, you have this addiction to him. I would suggest that you stop worrying about him and focus on yourself. Get ready for your travel, take your test, do anything you can to get him out of your mind. If you must think of him, think of the good things…but limit that. Keep it to only pure positive love thoughts. If you can’t do it, then just don’t think of him. Focus on Mary!!!!

    Yay for Mary!!!! Beautiful shining light!

  108.  #108laughing goddess on January 13, 2010 at 12:32 am

    What do you mean he showed no obvious signals of wanting to go out again???? He said “let’s hang out. Call me”. That would have been a perfect opportunity to say “I’d like that but it would feel better if you would call me” 🙂

  109.  #109laughing goddess on January 13, 2010 at 12:36 am

    Whoops, that last post was to Dorothea.

    Did you feel attracted to online guy. Even if not, sounds like it could be a great practice opportunity. Yay for free therapy!

  110.  #110dorothea on January 13, 2010 at 12:42 am

    thank you for your reply LG! I do feel attracted to him. some guys are just all nice tho or want more friends? oh i dunno i am looking up mind clearing meditations on youtube, it feels bad to analyze what men said.

    hehe i feel lighter already just typing “it feels bad to analyze”

  111.  #111dorothea on January 13, 2010 at 12:44 am

    woah just realizing i completely shut down when i say goodbyes to men at the end of dates.

  112.  #112mary on January 13, 2010 at 12:44 am

    hello Laughing Goddess:

    thank you for your post. i liked what you said about not knowing what he’s up to! he might just be refueling his jets and enjoying the time alone! and i liked what you said about being thankful that the men that used to be in my life are no longer in my life! that really registered with me.

    i’m puzzled about this part though: “It sounds to me that you have so much doubt (resistance) that this man could overcome his addiction that even if he has, you wouldn’t be able to see it. If you can’t just accept him and his history then just do yourself a favor and move on. It really has nothing to do with him. He could be a devil or an angel. It’s all about your perspective.”

    now, this is exactly what is happening in me! accepting him and his history. believing that he can overcome his addiction. having a good perspective about him.

    i believe i’ve been writing about this new trend in my posts.

    and it raises the question: what kind of relationship is possible, then? and how will we know if the addiction has been overcome?

    and this was my game plan, before tonight:

    give him freedom. give me freedom. date each other. date others, too. accept that the situation is what it is, whatever it is! and Let it Be. accept him, even though i don’t know everything. (it doesn’t necessarily mean that i’m trying for acceptance FROM him – it could be agape love here.) love him, even though there is darkness there. (isn’t there darkness in everyone?) then, with the process of dating others, not having pressure on our relationship, not having his addiction as the focus, the love that we have for each other will figure things out for us! i really, really think that circular dating is the key here.

    circular dating will offer comparisons. it will give me the insight of different environments. it will get me feeling grand again, wearing all my beautiful clothes and styling my long hair. it’ll get him appreciating me because i’ll be in demand. it’ll get me appreciating me because i’ll be in demand!

    i’ve already tried the No Contact Rule. i’m fast-forwarding through the book, looking at titles, and skimming, for now, and i’m going… check, check, check, done that, been there, done that! we’ve had No Contact!

    this is different. this is acceptance. and there is real love here. it is tolerance and acceptance, no strings attached. and i don’t know where it will take us.

    what is the fear? that my ENERGY will go out to this man? what’s so terrible about that?

    i’m keeping my feeling journal. i’m telling on him! to myself and to you!

    i’m not sure now, where i am! but i’m learning!!!!!

    thank you… for thinking this through with me, laughing goddess.


  113.  #113laughing goddess on January 13, 2010 at 12:44 am

    I have been feeling curious lately as to what attracts men. Tonight I was meditating and I could feel that I have this precious jewel in my heart that draws men to me. We all have these precious jewels. Mine feels like a gift that I am carrying to offer to just the right man. He will recognize it when he sees it. I don’t have to look perfect or be perfect. Being the holder of this jewel makes me inherently perfect. I was born with this precious jewel and it can never be taken away. This jewel is even more valuable than the largest diamond. More valuable than piles of gold. So valuable that the right man would do anything just to be near it. My body is a temple that holds this precious jewel. God created me and I am perfect and unique and priceless…We all are!

  114.  #114mary on January 13, 2010 at 12:48 am

    you’re right Kay! no one can tell me to leave or not leave. i can’t even tell it to myself. if i tell myself to leave, and i’m not ready, i won’t do it! sooooooo… i’m just gonna keep working on those nasty voices and keep feeling my way along…

    okay! thanks…

  115.  #115dorothea on January 13, 2010 at 12:48 am

    lol whatever, i’ll tell you to leave:P

  116.  #116mary on January 13, 2010 at 12:49 am

    Oh, LG!

    I’m going to copy that down and save it! I love that!!!!! We’re all perfect. God created us and we’re perfect and unique and priceless!

    I love it!

  117.  #117laughing goddess on January 13, 2010 at 12:50 am

    Dorothea: I see myself doing the same thing, shutting down at goodbyes. Then I think he’s the one showing no interest. Ha ha! We are funny creatures aren’t we?

    Mary: All I can say to your last post is yes, yes, yes!

  118.  #118laughing goddess on January 13, 2010 at 12:52 am

    Mary: I meant your long post above where you talk about circular dating. 🙂

  119.  #119dorothea on January 13, 2010 at 12:53 am

    yay i am a delightfully funny creature who shuts down at goodbyes to protect myself from rejection awww i love feeling the need to protect myself i’m cuuuute.

  120.  #120mary on January 13, 2010 at 1:05 am

    yes! it seems like a good solution for both of us.

    for him: he’s never been in a relationship with an acceptance of this problem. i think there is a slim possibility that, instead of having his cake and eating it too, which is what he was doing when he was back and forth with me, exclusive with me, then out with other women, then exclusive with me, then out with other women…

    now, he gets to go out with other women and me. it’s soooooo different. it seems like it’ll lose its appeal, because there’ll be no more forbidden fruit. i’m not talking about an open relationship here. i’m talking about no commitment – and we may never have one – but we love each others’ company, so we can just spend time together sometimes, whenever we want to, until one of us marries someone else!

    and for me: i’ve never been in relationship with him where i’ve accepted him for who he is and not wanted him to be any different. i honestly feel that i’m gearing up for it! something inside me is coming to it! it feels really wonderful, really good.

    so i can have him over, we can watch a movie, go to beautiful restaurants, kiss and carry on a tiny bit, and have an innocent, wonderful time, with no furthering of the relationship, just like what he desperately wants.

    so he doesn’t have to deal with commitment, and neither do i! and neither of us has to deal with the pain of separation.

    and eventually, we’ll each find someone else, probably… that’s probably how it will pan out…

    Kay might be right; that I don’t have what it takes to love him. I simply don’t know. I have been in therapy. I have read most of the books. I have been doing due diligence. And I have been just letting go.

    Maybe Tinque is right; maybe I don’t have to decide today.

  121.  #121mary on January 13, 2010 at 2:10 am

    So I’m developing quite a Feelings Log about different guys that I have feelings about! It was Rori’s idea, I think. I read it somewhere in one of her posts. And tonight I read it again in the eBook: “Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl.” Kay suggested the eBook “The NO Contact Rule” by the same author.

    Anyway, I really love this Feelings Log. I created a blog, and each entry on the top is a guy’s name. Then I just write and write, and whenever there’s a feeling word, I decide which major feeling category it belongs to, and these categories are different colors. So, if I said, “R didn’t call, and I feel really mad about that,” the word mad would be in red.

    Here is my code:

    mad = Red
    sad = Blue
    glad = Yellow
    scared = Purple
    humiliated = Green

    And I have almost a month’s worth now! I can look back at the colors and spot the feelings right away. (The background is black, so they really pop out.) And, the cool thing about the blog is (which can’t be seen by anyone but me) that if I click on the label of the guy’s name, only the entries about him come up! And I can look at the colors and scan through and see how I’m feeling about him!

    pretty cool! i love it!

  122.  #122Lisa on January 13, 2010 at 2:35 am

    To Mary, LG, etc.

    “We’re all perfect. God created us and we’re perfect and unique and priceless!”

    –Yeah, and some people are perfect SOB’s.

    This may be harsh, but it is not personal:

    I believe we’ve all been sold a bill of goods re. the “Hurts So Good”/”Love Hurts” bullshit. Love shouldn’t hurt; it should uplift you. Religion’s sold us a bill of goods, too. Be a martyr; your love will redeem him. But the key is, love must be reciprocal. Otherwise, we’re like the St. Bernards with the hospital toolkit round their neck. Or a fire jumper. We’re doing triage.

    Rori is telling us not to obsess. Not to live in pain, but joy. It is Jesus’s message, too: Enjoy life, abundantly. The sky’s the limit. Yet so many of the messages here are from women obsessing, not working the tools at all.

    I loved my ex, too, in a Werther-like way. But here’s what I figured out: I “loved” so desperately and totally because I was hoping to get a bit of that love, too. It was a selfish love. I held on fast because I feared what little “stale bread crumbs” I was getting tossed would dry up. My love was indirectly directed at myself, via him. If I could love him well enough, it would come back to me. The trickle-down theory (which didn’t work in economics, either.)

    What I did was abdicate all of my power, and lived at the whim of a cruel and lacking s.o.b. Now, I can love myself directly, and become worthy of being a true mate.

  123.  #123Aldonza on January 13, 2010 at 7:07 am

    I understand. I do. The incredible pull, that feeling of a real bond, the belief that you’ll never feel that way about anyone else. The faith that your love will somehow get through to him and *make* him better.

    That is your addiction. And that is why the “no contact” didn’t work. You were abstaining from your fix, but you weren’t addressing any of the stuff behind your own addictive feelings.

    I’m not going to tell you to leave him. That’s like telling a drunk, “don’t drink.” Hardly helpful. I will encourage you to keep up with the self-work. Really focus on keeping *your* needs and feelings at the forefront instead of his. Make a lasting habit of expressing your own feelings instead of stuffing them down. Heck, if nothing else, think of it as modeling good emotional health habits for him. Teach him how to get over his addiction by working on yours in front of him.

  124.  #124Kay on January 13, 2010 at 7:19 am

    I don’t agree with LG, I feel angry that she is giving Mary false hope regarding a man with a sex addiction that doesn’t want to talk about it with Mary. It’s not like this man is being transparent and forthcoming with his addiction. It’s not as if he’s inviting Mary into a part of his life. He doesn’t even want to discuss it with Mary as if it doesn’t exist so Mary has to run online to check behind him on Craiglist, his lack of sharing is creating paranoia in her. All Mary know is he has a horrible addiction and let me be clear, if he isn’t seeking help then he’s acting out, call it an assumption but I myself had to seek help for this kind of addiction and without help and self control there is no way he’s not acting out impulsively.

    Mary it’s not that I don’t feel you can’t love a man like this, sure you can love him but love isn’t enough, there is a disconnect inside of people that suffer with this addiction, he has this addiction because partly he has an issue with connecting intimately with women, some times love is the very trigger that creates so much pain for the other person with the addiction that they act out even more impulsively out of fear.

    I am not saying she can’t love him, nor be with him but it just seems that too many women put this la la fairytale twist on it as an excuse to stay and she’s wasting her entire life on men like this. Mary deserves love, love that is reciprocated with no strings attached but until she comes to the same conclusion she will keep walking on the darkside with these men, going nowhere and playing by his rules.

    If you notice Mary used to want more, she wanted him to herself, she wanted a normal natural relationship and when she couldn’t get it she lowered her standards so much so that now she’s a f*ck buddy. He’s not healthy, he can only deal with Mary this way and Mary has to decide realistically if this is healthy for her. I agree with Lisa that Mary is now losing herself and beginning to slowly lose all her power, just giving it away to be with him, this invites mistreatment, once a man like this understands she’s twisting her whole life to be with him, he turns cold and cruel and apathetic.

    I just want to caution that we all should be careful, Mary is vulnerable and she doesn’t need a sugar coated version. Her health, physical, mental and spiritual is at risk.

    I just feel we should encourage her to help herself and not find reasons to stay.

  125.  #125Kay on January 13, 2010 at 7:51 am

    Also I want to add if he’s seeking help for his addiction he’s most likely still acting out. I think it’s important that Mary know more about this and not turn a blind eye with this love and acceptance, we can date other people and still see one another will make it better state of mind. Maybe Rori can give some insight on this.

    Living in this abnormal state can set the tone for every other unhealthy situation Mary accepts, now abnormal will be the new normal for her, that scares me because she will no longer know the difference between healthy and unhealthy and the longer she sticks around with this kind of men the longer it takes to re-learn what normal/healthy love is.

    Sorry if I seem a bit paranoid, I feel pain over this issue.

  126.  #126Rachel on January 13, 2010 at 8:31 am

    I love that the women on this blog love each other (even though we don’t know each other!) enough to speak truth. Do you know how hard it is to find people who do that? To take the risk to tell someone a truth they don’t want to hear is very courageous and loving.

    And although these truths are hard to hear, we need them. They are the only thing that will set us free. I find a little more freedom every day through the brave women who share their stories here. Thank you all so much!!

    Lisa… thank you for what you just wrote about loving so desparately in hopes of getting some of it back. I spent the whole last year doing that and every single day was a walk in pain.

    I’m still in a relationship with this man, but I’m getting healthier and he’s … not quite sure what to do with the new me. But I’m learning to love myself and not worry so much about him. It is freeing and I could not have done it without Rori and all of you.

    So far to go yet, but I’m on my way!

  127.  #127DocK on January 13, 2010 at 10:04 am

    A female blood relative very close to me married a man who is an alcoholic. After they were married and the alcoholism started taking its toll on her, their relationship, the children, she spoke as if she wasn’t aware of the issue before they married.

    She was, because we had talked about it and signs of it. I remember this clearly. She overlooked it because in all other respects, he looked good on paper. He was really great looking. He was intelligent with a pretty good job. He actually did really adore her and was a great guy WHEN he was sober.

    She overlooked the signs of this addiction because she was feeling like she was never going to get married, never have kids and believed she could change him.

    To this day, she says that she still believes that if he really loved her he would have overcome the addiction. (PS They are now long divorced and she has suffered much financially trying to raise her boys and he would propably owe her about $40,000 – if she could ever get it out of him. She never will. The sons are now both over 18 and her ex has tremendous health problems from his years of drinking and has been un-employed for a long time.)

    This woman is so intelligent I find it interesting that she believes that – about his love overcoming the addiction. People addicted – depending on the addiction – hurt people they love by such things as stealing from them (drug addiction), lying and cheating (sexual addiction), embarrassing behavior (drug and alcohol addiction) and so on. Addiction doesn’t get healed because the person loves someone else – it usually gets healed because the person finds the way to love him/herself enough to seek help and stick with it.

    We can feel love in our hearts and even compassion for people that have these issues but usually have to release them from our lives.

  128.  #128laughing goddess on January 13, 2010 at 10:07 am

    I feel solid about my perspective. I feel accepting of the perspective of others. I find beauty in the differences we all have. I believe that we all come from God, the creator, the universe (whatever you want to call it) and even the “worst” of us have a light shining within. I feel happy that we can all share our perspective freely here. I feel trusting that Mary will sift through all of the info here and find what is right for her. I love that she has so many goddesses wanting to offer support. In the past I would have felt disturbed by receiving criticism. Now I just feel understanding and good. I feel solid and trusting of myself. I feel understanding that feelings of blame and anger have an important place in the healing process.

    I feel calm, and trusting, and proud of myself for sharing my truth even if it goes against the grain. 🙂

  129.  #129laughing goddess on January 13, 2010 at 10:13 am

    For the record, I’m not suggesting that anyone stay in an abusive or addictive relationship. I’m just saying, it’s dangerous to jump to conclusions and that I prefer to focus on healing my own toxic behaviors rather than diagnosing and obsessing over someone else’s issues.

  130.  #130laughing goddess on January 13, 2010 at 10:19 am

    Focusing on the man’s issues feels too much like focusing on him rather than focusing on me. It feels like he is still getting all of my energy even if he isn’t around.

  131.  #131mary on January 13, 2010 at 11:21 am

    oh, i feel so loved this morning! i’ve posed the problem so many times before on this blog and not received much feedback. when it was coming last night, i was so anxious for information that i was just dancing around, waiting for the next post. thank you so much for your feedback!

    believe me, i’m on both sides of this, too! it’s been an incredible journey. i read both eBooks last night. the No Contact Rule – i have already accomplished, without even one slip, except that instead of connecting with R in December, we got together in November. i didn’t feel manipulated into this. i allowed it.

    i really saw myself in the other eBook: Mr. Unavailable and The Fallback Girl, and i was very disturbed by it. it posed questions that sounded a lot like what you were saying, Kay. it gave lots of details about how each person in this kind of relationship works to keep it at a 5; The Fallback Girl loves drama and the Unavailable Man loves a fallback girl.

    Laughing Goddess; your laughter is contagious! i believe! i believe in change. i believe in redemption. i believe in love!

    i need to tell you guys that there is someone else on the horizon. someone i’m very interested in… mr. almost-divorced man. i believe his divorce will be final in a few weeks or a month, and he wants to come for a visit in late spring. he’s my first love, and although he isn’t as handsome as R, he’s a true-blue person with ethical values and is very supportive and loving with his family. he could be a good match for me!

    and the It’s Just Lunch woman thinks she has just the right guy for me! he also has family values and other things that i requested.

    i am stuck with R, not really knowing what to do. to suddenly go into No Contact again would almost be pathetic, in a way. as though there isn’t an ounce of strength in me to handle this. although i do agree with you Kay that every day i get whittled down a bit by his negative opinion of himself, which gets projected onto me.

    tonight, when i pick him up, instead of acting happy, i’ve decided to just be authentically feeling my feelings, and i’ve given myself permission to convey them if i choose.

    i can’t tell you how much i appreciate the feeling messages from you – Kay, Lisa, Aldonza, Rachel, DocK and Laughing Goddess. it feels so good to have feedback; i’ve been asking for a long time! i love the really straightforward approach! thank you for caring!

    one thing that is happening along with what i’m calling “acceptance” that keeps bubbling up from within – is that i’m losing some of my attraction for him. i’m seeing him in a new light. could it be the very few emails i’ve received from almost divorce man? maybe. or maybe it could be the unbelievable amount of work i did while we were apart.

    i saw two therapists. i called a sex addiction expert – Douglas Weiss – and spoke with him for hours. i called mr. Narcissist in macedonia and spoke with him for less time – that was incredibly expensive! i read many, many books on addictions, codependency and obsession. i even read two books on making decisions. i filled out all of Douglas Weiss’s workbooks. i read a book called “Are You the One for Me?” which had assignments in every chapter, and i did them all. i have notebooks and notebooks of exploration and work. i bought almost all of christian carter’s stuff, and i bought all of rori’s, and i’ve been on her blog since October, but reading the entries since last January.

    now i’m working on my career. i’ve lost so much in the recession. i was not having to work, and now it looks like i need to get out there and get after it! i’ve just been watching my accounts go down, down, and down some more while i’ve been holed up, not dating, just working on things.

    one thing i that occurred to me about two years ago: “i’m in this mess because i’ve been refusing to make decisions. i’ve been too nice to everyone around me, and i’ve been furthering their goals while not having any of my own.” so i committed then to start making decisions.

    since then, i sold my house. i located a car that i want and waited a year, so i can buy one that is a year old! (ready to buy one now…) i decided to get my canadian citizenship, which is in the works. i had an operation. i decided on a career and i’m almost there. i take the test on friday. i decided that i can’t get out there to date until i have my license! (it’s like the dating came to me… i didn’t go after it). but i’ve been working on my plan for dating! i do have a brilliant idea for online dating that i can’t wait to try!

    so… thankfully, i have more than R’s sex addiction on my plate. i see how destructive it is! i feel the fury of it. it is a giant tidal wave that could take me out and not even care, and it looks like i’m not running for the hills.

    maybe i will! i’m not ignoring it! how can i, with all of you loving me!

    i just woke up, and i was dreaming that there was a man in my kitchen, cooking some kind of main course. he started ordering me around, trying to get me to cook the rest of the meal. and i said, “hey, wait a minute! i can’t cook for you! i have to take my test! you’re gonna have to go somewhere else…”

    shades of No about the sandwich?

    thank you, goddesses.

  132.  #132mary on January 13, 2010 at 11:31 am

    i will be out of touch today as i spent so much time NOT studying last night! oh, so much to do!

    i feel like last night’s interchange really shifted something inside me. it helped me to see the fury of the tidal wave, and showed me that i’m still just going about my daily business, as if it’s not coming.


    and Laughing Goddess, the subtle but powerful reminder, “But God…”

    and Lisa, that the sacrifice has already been made!

    so i really am free to go, or to love, or whatever. i will just Let Go and Let God, and see what happens.

    and maybe run for the hills at the same time!

  133.  #133mary on January 13, 2010 at 11:39 am

    so just to be clear:

    i see that his addiction is not my problem. i see that God can take care of him and his addiction, so i can leave! i see that i am in danger when i’m with him. i see that i need to focus on my life instead.

    but the love…

    take out my own flaws. take out my own insecurities. take out my own obsessions and addictions.

    and there is still love.
    and that love is real.

    i’m just not sure how it will work… maybe the love will manifest itself in leaving? maybe the love will find another way…

    oh, you’ve helped me so much! i can see more clearly now!

  134.  #134alias girl on January 13, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    i i i i i needed them to be different for ME. i wanted them to treat me differently. love me differently.

    now i find myself more interested in my own life. my own self. my interests, my passions.

    asking myself…why have i recently lost my sex drive? is it because i have no love interest? i don’t know.

    i feel far more interested in people who are available. who are kind. who want to share time/space/experiences. i feel far more interested in my big adventure.

    when before i was trying to change everything and everyone because the world felt unsafe and i felt unloved.

    i love myself. and others are just fine as they are. the world is just fine as it is.

    thank you for an adventurous day and my delight in seeing how things manifest in a surprising manner. thank you for the love all around me. and thank thank thank you so much for jolting out of my old paradigm. i feel lucky and appreciative.

  135.  #135Robin on January 13, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    Nancy Thank you so much for the compliment!

    Dorothea, thats huge that you’ve noticed you shut down at the end of dates! Now you can use that information to undo that pattern…just being conscious of it is huge.

    Alright…I think im officially in love with this guy…

    And Im trying to be honest with myself, Im trying to sink in and see if Im addicted in some way, if he’s toxic in any way, or if Im just honest to goodness falling b/c he’s giving…

    When Im w/ him he treats me like a queen, I feel wonderful, cared for, this is the MOST GIVING guy Ive been with EVER…

    And I find myself wanting to see him more than Im seeing him, so that could be a problem…Im just feeling so many things, and they’re mostly good feelings, I feel like Im swirling and spiraling up, but I wish he were holding me right now, and I wish he and I were seeing each other more than once or twice a week (on avg.)

    And yet I feel confused about the physical side…he kisses me goodnight at the end of every date, but I ACTUALLY WANT MORE!!!!

    I get a couple of nice pecks, but…Im wanting into this guy…and ????

    Im like wtf why isnt it progressing (at least a little..) physically..

    And you’d think I’d be glad, and on some level I am, I feel more confident that he’s not using me, or trying to get something from me, he’s not only after sex, and hes wanting to spend time with me more for my energy and vibe and company, so that feels good.

    One of my core needs is that his energy his coming forward because he wants to give to me and not b/c he wants something from me…and I can feel that need being met.

    But another core need of mine this that I get attention, and I want MORE attention from him…

    And I guess I also want more physical romance, something I wasn’t all that aware of til today…

    Im getting a headache..

    Need to go practice some tools.. back later

  136.  #136laughing goddess on January 13, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    I feel so good reading about all of your goddess adventures!

  137.  #137Lola on January 13, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    Hi laughing goddess

    It was good to hear about your goddess adventure too!

    XOX : )

  138.  #138Gina on January 13, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    Hi Nancy and everyone else! I am enjoying reading the comments following my question for Rori. I especially want to say thank you to Nancy for sharing and replying on the blog as well. When I read your post from August, I sat there thinking, “Wow, this sounds exactly like me, only she’s 11 months further down the road…”

    Interestingly, since I sent that question to Rori last week, my man has told me that he has a very important question to ask me that is about our relationship, but he’s “not quite sure how to frame it yet” and might be “afraid of the answer.” This has me extremely curious, of course. He really knows how to keep me in suspense, and I know he isn’t bluffing. I do feel it’s a good indicator of where things are headed simply that he is bringing up discussing our relationship in a more explicit or formal way–that it’s his idea. No pressuring or explaining or leaning forward on my part. 😉 I guess I’m getting the hang of some of these things… Anyway, I cannot help but think his question will perhaps be related to the brief exchanges we’ve had about the timeline… how long I will be willing to wait, etc. And he is pursuing me, buying gifts, planning getaways, etc. more than ever and wanting more time with me, so the relationship is definitely moving forward.

    So, until he’s ready to hit me with The Question (insert dramatic organ music here), I will be practicing flirting with lots of men, enjoying the things I am involved with that don’t involve him… AND continuing to love the time we spend together!

    I hope things are progressing well for you and am sorry to hear about the recent rift in your relationship. Keep using the tools you know work for you, and either way you will feel better about yourself and hopefully he will see what a treasure he has in you also. –Gina

  139.  #139dorothea on January 13, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    This goddess right here just called up a man who called me last week but I felt reluctant to call back (I felt a lot of pressure and nerves, he’s my old coworker’s brother in law and REALLY cute). Boy do I feel glad I called him! He lives in a city about an hour away where I am planning my friend’s birthday party this weekend, and he offered me 3 rooms for me and my friends at his B&B for free!

    That is sexy. He is patient AND generous. I feel majorly deserving, thank you Universe

  140.  #140gina on January 13, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    Hi Ladies!!

    I’m sorry to skip everyone’s comments and jump right in. It’s just that i feel majorly triggered and on the verge of beating myself up, OR moving myself forward. So I am trying very hard to remain conscious of my thoughts, and I appreciate that I have this wonderful forum, that helps me be accountable for how I feel.

    I suddenly feel VERY inspired to do True Beauty AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. I realized that as soon as I had a name, logo and solid concept of “True Beauty Workshops”, my approach completely changed. Before I was REACHING out. And that transitioned to “Performing” – and I only wanted to perform for a fee. But I think if I reach out, the opportunities will be INFINITE!!! I just was inspired by this woman who created a program where girls ….

    OKAY…I’m going to stop right here. Because I should go write on my own blog. And I should use THIS blog to discuss Rori’s blogs with the other women on this site. It’s hard to acknowledge that. I feel ashamed. But I just exhaled and felt better knowing that this is a breakthrough. I believe that if I focus my emotional energy in conscious way, by sharing responsibly, rather than airing out all my negativity here, my blog will be fruitfull, and all effected will be better off.

  141.  #141mary on January 13, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    dorothea, that’s cool about the B&B! and he’ll get to meet your friends, too. that’s interesting!

  142.  #142mary on January 13, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    gina, that sounds like a good plan to me. reaching out to others could give you lots of potential customers!

  143.  #143mary on January 13, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    i’m feeling apprehensive now about picking R up from the airport. if i let him know my feelings, or if i’m FEELING my feelings, i’ll be so transparent. if he sees my sadness, or feels my fear, or experiences my anger, or my ambivalence towards him, it feels like i’ll be GIVING THESE PRECIOUS PEARLS to him! and he’ll be turned off by the amount of feeling that i have for him. i’ll seem so NEEDY. i’ll seem so INTO HIM.

    and that’s not how i truly feel. i’m feeling more INDEPENDENT and CAREFREE and HAPPY with myself. i want to just focus on those things… not on him, and whatever he did on his vacation.

  144.  #144dorothea on January 13, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    gina i feel seriously excited about this work you’ve chosen for yourself<3

  145.  #145Kay on January 13, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    Mary be what you feel, get out of your masculine energy which is worrying and thinking about how he will take you on. Stay in your feminine energy and be in the moment and let whatever you feel be, it doesn’t mean you have to push those feelings off on him, it just means your choosing to be. Who are you being? Whatever you feel at the moment.

    I feel so annoyed when I see women twist themselves up to be around a man, I guess because I do it too LOL. Relax, focus on you and you should be just fine.

  146.  #146Lisa on January 13, 2010 at 5:42 pm


    Yes, we understand each other, too. It is a great blessing to have this community in which to share such raw feelings, and cheer each other on. This is a rare thing. Thanks to all, and thank you Rori 🙂

    AG says:

    “i feel far more interested in people who are available. who are kind. who want to share time/space/experiences. i feel far more interested in my big adventure”

    Right-on! I’m with you. When I get a counseling degree I’ll forbear the psychotics, for an hour, for a fee. For now, I’m looking for nuturance and happiness.

    This is my time.

  147.  #147laughing goddess on January 13, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    Hi Lola!

    I feel inspired hearing about your new course and exciting life plans!

  148.  #148Sherry on January 13, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    I just had an experience with a guy that makes me feel confused. I didn’t say any thing while he was here because I was unsure. Is it leaning forward if I ask him about it? Ask him for clarity?

  149.  #149Robin on January 13, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    Sherry, what was the situation? Really depends o how you feel, is my answer, but what happened?

    Just finished chatting w/ an old friend from junior high. when we got into hs, she was a total bitch to me

    well she found me on fb, we started chatting, the conversation turned to me, and she told me she and her husband argue and how stressful its been, so I started talking about what I’ve learned from Rori’s tools,and cd, and working on releasing old patterns, and dating myself, and everything Ive learned from this was just coming up in conversation as she and I were talking.

    Well I triggered her, she was complaining about how he accuses her of running from the problem when she walks away from an argument. I told her to say something calmly, and the actually go DO something she likes, she told me she has no hobbies other than the computer, and that I knew she was a sheltered child

    Hell, I was sheltered too, but there are so many things we can do to heal ourself, I mean there are a million things we can do to take care of ourselves, but I guess she wasnt ready to hear about what we can do to get ourselves unstuck.

    She signed off…oh well,

    As I was reading her comments, I realized just how far I’v come and how happy I’ve gotten since working with he tools and cd! Yay!

    And I dont feel myself pining for my fav guy, even though I was wishing I could have been w/ him earlier. Im feeling confident that his love is coming at me, and that he cant resist me!!

  150.  #150Sherry on January 13, 2010 at 7:11 pm


    This is a guy who is as confused about our relationship as I am! It would really help if you could read about my situation in the comment section on Rori’s Post That would give you a feel for what is going on and I would really appreciate it.

    Basically, tonight he asked to come over and if I would burn a cd for him. He wanted to last night but I was busy. So, he came over and we messed with the computer for an hour and his blank cd turned out not to be blank and we couldn’t do it. Not a big deal. But, the whole time he was here he did not touch me or try to kiss me or any thing. He brushed up against my arm, etc. when we were on the computer, but that is all. Even when he left, no kiss, no hug, nothing. He doesn’t come to my house very oftem because of the situation, and my son was due home at any minute, but I’m still confused.

    It is like we are both so unsure of where the other person is at. I didn’t act very open with him tonight. I am so confused on my feelings about all this. That is why I blew him off last night. When he came over I just said hi and went back to my computer and started on it. Not that it is my job to do so lol, but I didn’t try to touch him either. Not even accidentally on purpose! How can someone I have been with intimately make me so nervous? It was like I was hanging out with him for the first time and I didn’t know what to do! How to act or what to say. I was not myself. I didn’t even flirt with him lol and I am a huge flirt!

    Like I said before, we just don’t talk about our situation. I have talked to him every day for the last couple of weeks. He is the one who initiates the texts or calls. Was he just feeding off my nerves? Shouldn’t he be the one to man up and at least hug me goodbye?

  151.  #151Sherry on January 13, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    Oh, and just to be fair, he did have something come up right before he came over. His dad passed out behind the wheel of his car and ran in to a house. He is OK, but they are keeping him overnight at the hospital to run tests.

    I honestly think this is the first time we haven’t kissed or hugged goodbye in years. That’s what is confusing.

  152.  #152Simply Shannon on January 13, 2010 at 7:24 pm

    Just subscribing for today.

    Mary, I feel excited to hear about this change that is unfolding within you. As someone previously married to an alcoholic / possible narcissist (per our therapist), I feel empathy for you. I also feel worried that this is just the tip of the iceberg. It would feel good to know you had full disclosure but I don’t believe that can happen if he won’t even talk to you about it. I’m not talking about him admitting everything he’s done in his past. That’s HIS business and knowing the awfulness of it would only hurt you. (Note: if he’s done things specifically to you while you were together, then that deserves full disclosure.) At a minimum, I would want to talk about his triggers and what he’s doing to break this addiction. If he’s hiding it, I would feel afraid and uncertain.

    Today Mr. Fab Kisser asked me if we were in a relationship (BF/GF). I basically said I felt curious and what did he think. He said “Seriously, I would like to think ( and actually hope) that we are in a relationship.” Eck. I felt a little freaked out but calmly gave him the no-girlfriend speech. And he responded okay to it. I feel relieved. I now know that he wants this relationship with me to go deeper. I feel excited to have deeper conversations. I’d been holding back in that regard because I felt afraid I was rushing things again. Now I feel comfortable asking and seeing where this goes. Kind of crazy. That was the first delivery of no-GF that didn’t feel scary as hell. I didn’t feel attached to the outcome. If he had said “see ya”, I would have felt okay but I feel very glad that’s not what happened. He’s even talking about wanting to introduce me to his kid. WOW!

  153.  #153mary on January 13, 2010 at 7:55 pm

    Oh, Simply Shannon,

    I feel sooooooo happy for you! That he brought up talking about your relationship. That he was interested in where he stood! That you had courage to give him the speech! That you weren’t attached to the outcome! That you guys are still gonna date! That he’s a fabulous kisser! Happy, happy, happy and inspired.

    Thanks for the opinion on R! A few hours and I’ll go to the airport. I’m looking forward to seeing him. And figuring out how to feel in the moment. Easier for some people than others! I tend to get lost in HIS feelings. Tonight I will concentrate on mine and just be curious about them! I’m excited.

    And that’s so great about Fab Kisser. And now you’ll meet his kid. YOU RATE!

  154.  #154Sherry on January 13, 2010 at 9:50 pm

    And now he’s texting me. Ugh. I wish I were better at feeling messages then I could get this out there. Any suggestions?

  155.  #155Kay on January 13, 2010 at 10:11 pm

    Sherry I feel lost for words towards your situation. I read about your issue on another thread and I feel confused. I’m not sure why there is a problem between you 2. Yes there is an age difference but I’m not sure what to say to you because I don’t see a problem between the 2 of you. Your both single, I know you said he was going through a divorce but never mentioned if he ever followed through with the divorce.

    Maybe if you can elaborate on how your feeling, what’s really holding you 2 back as you see it the women on the forum may chime in and give you some help.

    I wish I could help you with feeling messages but I’m not that great at it either. I have used them, they do work and I have been successful but I haven’t learned to lead another person as to how to use them….I’m still puzzled about feeling messages but I do know they are very effective with men.

  156.  #156Sherry on January 13, 2010 at 10:36 pm

    Yes, he is divorced. The problem comes from before, when we were getting close and all this happened. We both got so much shit from everybody. It was ridiculous the way everyone reacted. From friends to family – all of them. I was so stressed and sick of being questioned and judged. People trying to talk to me to “help” me see what a mistake I was making. And they really didn’t know the half of what was going on between us! So, when it started again, I didn’t tell anyone. I don’t know that I can handle all that will come with having a relationship with him. I don’t know that we can have a relationship. A real one anyway. What we have now isn’t even an imaginary relationship. If I put myself out there and fight for it with my family and friends will it even become anything? Would it be worth it to see? I just don’t know.

  157.  #157Kay on January 13, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    Sherry I can’t begin to know the anxiety you feel over this issue but all that comes to my mind to say is…it’s your life, you can’t live for everybody because once the kids are grown and gone (if they aren’t already grown) you will be left by yourself to live your life. The past is gone, this man is most likely a few years older, has his own life and honestly it’s nobodies business and honestly it seems you have allowed everyone in when, created a ton of issues by discussing your relationship with a few trusted friends and family.

    This is just one of those decisions you have to make without anyone’s approval. Maybe you should slowly date him again without telling anyone, find a family therapist that may be able to give you some insight on how to reveal your new love interest, you just have to anticipate back lash and get on with your life.

    I wonder why your so guarded, why is it about who hugs who first. I mean aren’t you 2 way beyond that now? What’s wrong with saying how you feel about him entering your life again. If it feels good say it feels good, if it feels confusing, say it, say I feel confused, I’m not sure what were doing. What do you think?

    It’s your life, it’s nobodies business and maybe that was a mistake you both made in the past, letting everybody in on your love life when in reality it created more conflict for you. Try being your own woman, try doing what feels good to you and not think about everybody else’s feelings. Try staying in the moment and see what’s there for you.

    Your so guarded and your nervous energy is what he feels, makes a man back off. Your treating him like a stranger that isn’t welcomed, most likely your treating him how your family and friends would treat him, I’m sure that doesn’t feel good to him. I see his attempts to connect with you but your not open to it.

    He’s not the confusing one, in my opinion you are and your projecting your own feelings onto him. Maybe you need to get clear about how you feel about this guy and show him, what’s wrong with grabbing his hand or wrapping your arms around his neck and softly say I missed you so much instead of being cold and distant.

    Your stuck…Your stuck in the past and your not open but yet you invite him in your home like your expecting a miracle, I’m confused by your actions. You say he initiates contact but you blow him off, in my opinion your allowing everyone’s distorted view of your relationship with him cloud any and all opportunities to connect again. You blame him but maybe you need to check yourself first before you accuse him of being the closed unemotional one.

    As for talking about your situation. Why do you have to talk about it? Right away, you 2 have plenty of time for that talk, try connecting and the conversation will come up eventually. You seem like you want to rush things, fast forward to what you feel is a huge issue, maybe he’s over it, maybe his priority is you and not you and everybody else. It seems he’s more interested in reconnecting with you, with your heart and your not there, you just don’t want to because your afraid.

  158.  #158Daria on January 13, 2010 at 11:51 pm

    Mary this comment of yours triggered me (in a great healing way)

    “he’s always clean, and his hair is still a little wet, with his best shirt on, and he’s on time, and his car is spiffed, and he has plans, and tickets, and plans after the plans, and… he also has QUESTIONS for me!”

    wow! that does sound great.

    and it reminds me of guywhohadababy. he was so smooth… and your comment really reminded me of that

    it felt easy to let him be in charge.

    i really really felt touched by this. it’s been with me the past few days.

    last nite i was with “sex man” and while we were getting ready to have sex, i remembered, in detail, how guywhohadababy would start sex with me.

    i felt like guy who had a baby was there in spirit.

    and i felt glad to learn

    because i liked a lot about it

    i felt turned on! naturally! and sex therefore felt awesome and… almost inevitable

    liek i would lay next to his body and be aware of his body and it was as if i could tell that his awareness was aware of his body and mine

    and then he would just start slidign off my pants, NO ASKING

    and if/when i resisted, he would moan, or say my name…or soemthing

    my body is like an animal, like a cat, and getting ready for sex feels a lil scary

    and with him it felt comfortable and like he was in control of my body as well as his, and without thinking about it we were already doing it.

    because my BODY would relax and allow it

    not thru my mind, but thru my body. this amazing cat animal i have. mmmm

    i feel so good to learn this stuff!!

    i feel so excited to be able to “teach” or just realizing “receive” this great transition into sex with any partner i choose

    today i took special care to pay attention to waht my body wants.

    i read it somewhere

    that if my body acts tightens up like something is wrong in regards to me doing something, i should really pay attention

    but if my body feels comfort and eagerness, then to go ahead

    now this sounds like duh but it wasnt. like i would want to eat another bite of soemthign. my mind really wanted to. but my body said no, it tightened. it really took COURAGE in the moment for me to put that spoon down. cuz im trying to retrain my mind to integrate with my body

    i had to do this several times.

    then also i was going home, but my body was feeling anxious.

    so i actually pulled over TWICE . in the parking lot. to do EFT and tools

    i feel so proud of myself ! i feel glad.

    BTW i DID NOT regret any of the putting my spoon down, or parking.

    if anything i feel wonderful that i did that.

    even though in the moment my mind was saying, but its just one bite ir ealy want it come on

    but my tummy was saying gurgle im full. awwww
    i love my tummy

    this really helped me make great food choices today

    i’m feeling really glad to be reminded of guywhohadababy’s smoothness and spifness


    and sexman

    i told him “I want you to love me”

    (oh god i feel pinched under my eye. i feel TOUCHED. I WAS BRAVE ENUF TO SAY THIS)

    he said he is “confused” when he gets his life more together including financially he’ll make more conscious decisions

    he also mentioned his baby mom etc

    so then i have said ok, we are on that level so i all of a sudden said

    “You know i feel upset. this reminds me of something. i was friends with this dude, and he broke my heart.”

    wow! i said that. it was plain and true but i dont often say that to myself, let aloine a man.

    he swithced subjects. he said he doesnt like it when i talk about other guys ( i noticed).


    so then i was calling him out on what i said “being passive agressive and having an attitude” heeh cuz i could feel it.

    and i said im up on his game of trying to ask me something, when its really waht he wants


    i learned A LOT

    a lot lot lot

    thank you mary

    that comment feels so vivid to me

    i feel JEALOUS actually of a guy being so smooth and having his car spiffy… jealous in a competitive sense.

    like I want to always be smooth and have my car spiffy.


    i feel good saying that

    maybe thats the attraction


    and i realized sex man’s message for me – a major one –

    I am here to heal u from the guy who broke your heart.

    thas wassup

    he can be my stepping stone

    i feel glad of it

    and if more, that would feel nice

    and it feels good to be healing, tapping into stuff i hadn’t felt/realized in so long


  159.  #159gina on January 14, 2010 at 12:12 am

    Wow Daria…I love that comment from Mary too…Ima repeat it, it was so good

    “he’s always clean, and his hair is still a little wet, with his best shirt on, and he’s on time, and his car is spiffed, and he has plans, and tickets, and plans after the plans, and… he also has QUESTIONS for me!”

    mmm…delicious! I’m beginning to feel worthy of that much goodness.

  160.  #160Daria on January 14, 2010 at 12:34 am

    Gina I feel tightened up! because even tho those smooth things are very attractive… including the being on time and having plans and plans after plans (omgosh loving just writing that)

    i want MORE and that is not ENOUGH for me. wonderful… but more more more is what yo quiro.

    Thank you! for having this touch me so vividly.

    i feel so glad
    i feel so thankful

    i am healing!


    ohhh i remember

    when me and guywhohadababy were only friends
    with no sex

    and it felt strange to have sex
    although he started moving towards it

    i actualy played this role with him

    and i remember him saying
    omgod its really going to happen

    i remembered this earlier in the car

    im realy starting to be able to “feel this out” and heal


  161.  #161mary on January 14, 2010 at 1:35 am

    ooooooh. i just picked him up at the airport.

    what a gentle man. gentle and soft spoken. and never forcing. always listening. like a shaman in a wild primitive tribe. like one of the three wise men from the east.

    i love this man.

    i just dropped him off at his place. it told him my stomach felt bad, which wasn’t the truth, but i didn’t want to go in. i don’t really know what to do with him at the moment.

    and tomorrow i’m going to slip out of town to go take my test. i’m not telling anybody but you guys! i’m not really prepared for it – i’ve been cramming for about a week now. people say you can’t do it in under four months… but basically i need to just look at the test and see what it’s all about, to reduce fear and then i’ll know the best way to study for it. i can take it again in 90 days, so… it’s worth it to go ahead and take it! i leave tomorrow and take it early friday morning! i just didn’t want to tell R about it. what if i miraculously pass? then that’ll be some great news to share! and if i don’t, well, i can share that too.

    and then… i come back and deal with life again! i’m not going to put everything off to study, ever again! studying will just have to be a part of my daily routine, and another part of it will be becoming proactive about dating.

    there are other men who might smell good. and make plans. and plans after the plans! and take me for drinks at the swankiest place in town. and put love notes on craigslist for only me to find. and call me by my beautiful name and middle name, too. and listen. and gently, patiently, guide me into wanting to be a better person.

    aren’t there?

    n e x t ? ? ? ? ?

  162.  #162mary on January 14, 2010 at 1:35 am

    hello daria.

  163.  #163mary on January 14, 2010 at 1:37 am

    hello gina.

  164.  #164Daria on January 14, 2010 at 1:45 am

    those of you that are following and learning from Cesar Milan, the Dog Whisperer, I know Nikita is and AG and maybe others…

    can you please tell me some youtube videos u learned from?

    and share some insights?

    very curious … getting an inkling of how this applies to us

  165.  #165Daria on January 14, 2010 at 1:46 am

    hi mary.

    i feel awful and judgemental reading that you didnt tell him the truth.

    i feel sad i havent told my parenst the truth about certain things

    my parenst are my BIG TIME thing that im practicing for. hehe

    men seem pretty harmless in comparison

  166.  #166Daria on January 14, 2010 at 1:48 am

    Mary there are. and also after all the insights stemming from my feeling touched by your earlier comment

    im starting to get an idea that i can ASK for the things i want.

    i dont want to guide a man

    but i do believe i would somehow naturally be led to have my desires fulfilled, without neediness

  167.  #167Daria on January 14, 2010 at 1:50 am

    Rori can you help here please?

    what if we like something an ex did, or just liek something… maybe more somethings… how to get that fulfilled without holding on?

    ex. say sex is not feeling good, but i remember times it felt better and what was done then.

    it would feel good if …

    is that how it would go?

    what if ilike being called by my middle name?

    can you post on this?

    on stating WANTS? or what to do with wants when we have a reference of what woudl feel better? without doing the agenda thing?


    ps – esp important for me with SEX !! which is BIG!!

  168.  #168Daria on January 14, 2010 at 1:51 am

    i feel excited and curious about your test mary, and a lil doubtful hearing that people say you have to study that long, and still excited

  169.  #169Daria on January 14, 2010 at 2:03 am

    I feel guilty and weird and uncomfortable reading that i wrote that i feel judgemental

  170.  #170Daria on January 14, 2010 at 2:04 am

    I dont want to feel that way. i feel uncomfortable feeling judgemental.

  171.  #171Daria on January 14, 2010 at 2:08 am

    Mary reading your more recent comments I feel glad! I can see you moving toward valuing yourself more and more.

    that feels reassuring and good

  172.  #172mary on January 14, 2010 at 2:39 am

    oh, i don’t mind your feeling judgmental. i felt judgmental about myself when i read it! i did feel slightly sick, and i didn’t want to go in. i mean i did want to, of course, but i also didn’t want to, because he didn’t call me much while he was out of town, and once was kinda rude to me on the phone! oh, so sad, to say that…

    i don’t know why i wrote it.

    i just wish, wish, wish, i could figure out what to do with the love i feel for R. maybe i don’t have to figure it out! maybe just love and see what happens.

  173.  #173mary on January 14, 2010 at 2:42 am

    i’m really wanting sex! and i don’t know what to do about it! i’d love it with R, but i don’t know… we don’t do that… and there is a disease there that i could get, and i don’t want it… but it’s been a long, long time…

  174.  #174mary on January 14, 2010 at 2:45 am

    i made a reservation for the ferry to go over to vancouver at 7am. i’m so glad! it’ll be such a fun trip! even if i don’t pass the test! it’s fun to go over and feel the frazzle of the big city, and i’m gonna stay downtown, where i can walk around and just mingle with everyone. that’ll be so fun! and i’ll meander over and check out the test site tomorrow, then go back to my hotel and study, study, study, cram, cram, cram… and that’ll be fun too. !!!

    i’m so happy that this part of my life is coming to an end! this study part! because after this, even if i don’t pass, i’m just going to live NORMALLY. and work out, and date, and go through my papers, and go through my stuff in storage, and all that. and i’ll pass! sooner or later… hopefully sooner!

  175.  #175mary on January 14, 2010 at 2:48 am

    i love myself loving R!

    i love being with him. i love driving around in the car with him. i love it when we just say nothing. i love it when we just do errands. i love it when we just watch tv. i love it when we do fun things. i love it when we get with friends.

    i wish it could work with him.

    oooooooooooooh. the pain of it all! i guess that’s why i’m on this BLOG! i’ve given soooooooooooo much of my time and my life and my energy WANTING IT TO WORK!

    now i’m upset.

    talk to you later! from my hotel room! yes… that’s a happy thought… more like that please…

  176.  #176mary on January 14, 2010 at 3:01 am

    i think that dating lots of different people gives you ideas. and makes you want things you never even knew you wanted. and the more people you’re with, the more things you want! that’s how R got a Fantasy Girl in the first place, because he was with a lot of different women.

    when my husband left, i wanted so many of the things that he was! i wanted sex. i wanted the way he smelled. i wanted the way he touched my foot in the middle of the night, even if i was sleeping, just to say hello. i wanted the pillow talk. i wanted him to call me 25 times a day like he used to. i wanted him to say all the familiar little things he’d say. i wanted him to raise his eyebrow like he always did. i wanted him to make plans for our day together. i wanted him to be the one to put the dollar into the parking meter.

    and i put all these things down on paper. and then i asked myself: now, who can provide these things for me? and i listed things like:

    husband only
    male friend
    any friend
    no one
    not even God

    and i started slotting things into their places. and you know what? i was shocked at the number of things i could do for myself! or that God could do. or that a girlfriend could do. or that ANYONE could do. but mostly, that a boyfriend could do. (oops, let’s not use that word here… that a date could do…) i realized there were only a few quirky things that only my ex could do!

    i was so relieved to realize that.

  177.  #177Daria on January 14, 2010 at 3:10 am

    feelin a lil disapointed. heres a convo with a man online… on the driving topic… i feel insecure about how im handling these… like maybe im sending out the porcupine vibe?

    HIM: so u never cum out here

    i dont like to come out to visit men tho
    i wanna be the lady

    HIM: we can meet half way lol

    ME:haha nope

    HIM:dyn we

    ME:damn i guess so. at least this feels very direct and fast

    HIM: o yes im very to da point since u cant coroperate

    ME: yeah u rite well i respect u. and thank u for commentin somethin on my pic that feels sweet

    HIM: o it gud bt u still dnt wanna c me=(

    ME: aw papi it would feel really good to meet u
    i dont want to be the one doin the effort an driving tho
    rite now i want a man that can come swoop me up an i can ride passanger

    HIM: well ma car crashed so i gez its bad dyn im sad

    ME: now im feelin sad too
    an kina happy i kina feel like good vibe from u

    HIM: dyn y u gne play smn like me

    ME: im dont have to play u
    i dont want to drive to men
    im on some other shit
    i wanna be treated real good and get taken out

    HIM: shit me 2 vice versa

    ME: yah
    well u a man
    an im a woman
    i wanna play the woman role

    ME: i feel down to be ur friend tho if u think thats a good idea

    HIM: idk

    ME: lol yah me neither

    HIM: i dnt know wat 2 say

    ME: i know me neither . now im jus feelin kina sad an weird. i feel like runnin away from this conversation

    HIM: yeah me 2 lol i gez we aint ment 2 b

    ME: k bbyes im not mad at you

    HIM: huh

    And that was the end. i feel sad. =(. I felt a good vibe from him. thats why i offered to be firneds.

    but umm… this is a too typicial convo?

    tips on how to shift the energy?


  178.  #178mary on January 14, 2010 at 3:20 am


    how to say this?

    there are SO MANY GUYS OUT THERE who have cars and will drive to you! and can speak really good english! you’re young and beautiful and gorgeous and intelligent!
    i feel restless and impatient for you to date men who are more your caliber! and i’m sad. and i want you to have the best!

  179.  #179mary on January 14, 2010 at 3:24 am

    maybe i need to date men who are more my caliber! i’m sad. i want me to have the best, too! i’m not young, but i’m beautiful and gorgeous and intelligent! and there are so many guys out there who have cars and will drive to me!

  180.  #180Daria on January 14, 2010 at 3:30 am

    Mary i feel super angry reading about the really good english.


    and i feel defensive and URRGH

  181.  #181Daria on January 14, 2010 at 3:31 am


    I don’t appreciate the men i talk to being judged on their GOOD ENGLISH!

    im not looking to romance ENGLISH. i dont give a fuck about good english

    there is no such thing as GOOD ENGLISH.

    there are only billions and billions and infinite ways of self expression.

  182.  #182Daria on January 14, 2010 at 3:32 am

    ugh i was feeling insecure about taht when i posted the comment initially!! rarrrgh i feel so triggered

  183.  #183Daria on January 14, 2010 at 3:33 am

    I hate it when people say i dont date men who are my caliber!!!

    I feel so judged and not understood and NOT SEEN!!

    and i feel furious!!!

    i feel like attacking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  184.  #184Daria on January 14, 2010 at 3:34 am

    why dont you date a guy that I THINK IS GOOD FOR U

    forget about the men you are interested in they are not good caliber

  185.  #185Daria on January 14, 2010 at 3:34 am

    of your caliber

    and they dont speak good english


  186.  #186Daria on January 14, 2010 at 3:36 am

    maybe if i didnt speak good english then i woudl be not good caliber!

    what do you think?

    cuz i can speak bad english

    i guess im just not good enuffffffff then

    i feel triggered

    i was not expecting this

    i feel like whooping someones ass

    or just turning in circles a hundred million times


  187.  #187Daria on January 14, 2010 at 3:38 am

    i feel annoyed that i sometimes feel like or actually “translate” what men say to me

    cuz when i write the way they would say something or how i would speak to them people would say

    ohhhh you sound not intelligent

    so i feel furious that if i “translated” everything then people would say. oh thats fine.

    but since its in a DIFFERENT DIALECT then its looked down upon

    FUCK THAT!@@

  188.  #188Daria on January 14, 2010 at 3:39 am

    i aint feelin that shit

    im bout to never write no good enlgish on this fuckin blog


  189.  #189mary on January 14, 2010 at 3:39 am

    yeah, i hear you. i feel okay that you’re triggered.

    i just want more for you, like a mother would want more for her daughter. you’re so smart! you’re so with it! i want you to have a guy who’s smart and with it!

    good english – i don’t care! i truly am open-minded about that! but there are so many guys who have lots going for them who would love you!

    okay. you choose someone for me, and i’ll choose someone for you.

  190.  #190Daria on January 14, 2010 at 3:42 am

    im a fuckin immigrant!

    my parents dont even speak perfect english


    i hate fuckin racism classism an all this bullshit

    i feel outraged

    and i feel triggered cuz i grew up with these judgements

    and i feel like i cleared my way out

    and now im stuck feeling like im judging judgers for judging


    cant fuckin win for losing

    stupid fucking bitchass societal


  191.  #191mary on January 14, 2010 at 3:43 am

    i did love reading the part about you wanting to ride passenger…

  192.  #192mary on January 14, 2010 at 3:44 am

    okay okay i hear you.

    not sorry i want more for you.

    it has nothing to do with immigrants.

  193.  #193Daria on January 14, 2010 at 3:44 am

    Mary I agree that i want someone good for me but I want to be the one to pick that person.

    and i dont want someone who judges people on their english.

    except if i FELT uncomfortable or turned off

    i LIKE men who “don’t speak good english”

    i feel GOOD AND CREATIVE speaking not good english

    i feel down to earth

    i feel insta connected to the men i like

    and i feel proud of it

    and i feel really triggered still

  194.  #194mary on January 14, 2010 at 3:45 am

    nothing to do with race.

  195.  #195mary on January 14, 2010 at 3:46 am

    and i do love reading the way people are talking. it’s refreshingly different. as you are.

    can we talk later? when we both feel better? my stomach is kinda sick. i feel upset that you’re upset, but i don’t want to leave you being upset.

  196.  #196Daria on January 14, 2010 at 3:46 am

    yeah it doesnt have to do with immigrants it has to do with “other” ethnicities and social classes and with


    i feel outraged

    and i feel inefffectual

  197.  #197Daria on January 14, 2010 at 3:47 am

    Mary ok. I feel triggered so i may be riffing and venting here. i do not really want to direct the comments toward you.

    i feel protective of your tummy ache

  198.  #198mary on January 14, 2010 at 3:48 am

    it’s not the english… so much as it is the other things. and this could trigger you, too…

    but daria.

    you can choose! you can CHOOSE! YOU CAN CHOOSE! you are so smart. you are so beautiful. you are young and in demand.

    you can choose whoever you want!

  199.  #199mary on January 14, 2010 at 3:51 am

    choose wisely.

    i wish i had.

    i see some of my friends who chose amazing husbands, and they’re still married today. they have a HISTORY with each other! their kids have both parents!

    it’s so rare.

    and you can have that. i want you to choose wisely. i see that you have all the opportunity in the world!

    because i’ve become very fond of you, reading this blog. i’ve really missed you. so glad to be talking to you tonight, before i go tomorrow to take my test! glad to say hey.

  200.  #200Daria on January 14, 2010 at 3:53 am

    I feel really triggered I feel really triggered I feel really triggered

    i feel furious and annoyed that romanian ppl especially will SO OFTEN cricticize other romanina people for mispelling something or putting a hyphen in the wrong place. like that is EVIDENCE That the person is dumb

    and I USED TO DO THIS>!!! it feels easy and thirilling to jump on the your dumb cuz you cant spell bandwagon

    but now that i came to a place where i opened my eyes some about tolerance


    noooo youre just being dogmatic and RIDICULOUS!!!



    i feel furious, shaky, pinched, judgemental, INTENSE

    i lvoe my feelings!!!!!!!!!

  201.  #201mary on January 14, 2010 at 3:53 am

    and i see that you could have a circular dating pool of guys – lots of guys – who drive, and take care of you, and give you attention and make plans, and buy tickets, and make plans after plans, and have QUESTIONS for you, all figured out in advance, that they’re curious about…

  202.  #202mary on January 14, 2010 at 3:57 am

    and i think romanian is exotic, and they will, too.

    and i think everyone is wonderful. all the races are amazing. every color is beautiful. and i love it that you see beauty everywhere.

    and it has nothing to do with race, or good english, or money, or class. it has everything to do with choices…

    but look at me! i’m not making the best choices, huh? i’m reading that eBook and i’m the Fallback Girl! (i called it the ‘Tweener Girl, but Fallback is better…)

    i have to learn to make better choices for myself.


  203.  #203mary on January 14, 2010 at 3:59 am

    i will do that tomorrow!

    i’ll make some good breakfast choices when i’m on the ferry!


    i feel so much like a kid on this blog! it’s fun…

  204.  #204mary on January 14, 2010 at 3:59 am

    daria, are you there? i want to say good night to you. didn’t mean to trigger the hell outta you!

    i’m sorry.

  205.  #205Daria on January 14, 2010 at 4:02 am

    HI Mary…

    thank you. and yes i do feel triggered.

    i feel raised eyebrow .

    i know that i can choose. mmm… ?? i feel kinda of a downer vibe there…

    I do not want to have to explain why, i feel confused about that

    yes i can choose….?? i feel triggered being told this

    i feel like there are implications . like that im not choosing well.


    i choose a man who if he speaks english primarily then he primarily speaks “not good english” hehe

    that would feel great and fun and at home and comfortable to me

    i feel triggered like i feel weird and uncomfortable when i tell my mom im going out and she says

    ohhhh… were are you going? be careful daria.. be careful.

    i feel really uncomfortable, untrusted, and JUST CRINGE


    i feel angry being told i can choose. m… yes i know i can choose.

    yes i “unchose” this man cuz he doesnt have a car. which feels still kinda off for me, so maybe thats my answer right there

    it feels off to judge a man on whether or not he has a car

    cuz the men i feel most attracted to are brave chest to the world men and in what i have observed in this society they generally are hard to survive


    do women at war pick a man who is brave and might not make it thru the war because he’s a real honest man that loves them?

    or do they not pick any of the men in the war because of the chance the men might die… even if the war is ultimately for protection of all them too??


    i feel struggle

    i am attracted to men who are brave , and i want SOLIDITY TOO

    but i feel thats IMPOSSIBLE (almost) because the way this secret war is set up to have men not survive it. so solidity gets gone as they are fighting to survive


    all around…


    i feel tightened

    I feel like crying

    i feel sobbing in my chest shaking me


    i feel hopeless

    i feel angry

    i feel desperate and sad sad

  206.  #206Daria on January 14, 2010 at 4:04 am

    Gnite Mary – I feel frustrated to be apologized to.

    I don’t like being apologized to for somethign a Goddess said that was not something i wanted an apology for.

    i feel guilty.


  207.  #207Daria on January 14, 2010 at 4:05 am

    Mary I feel confident that as you practice the tools you will babystep your way to choices that You want that feel great to You and to feel goodness.

  208.  #208Daria on January 14, 2010 at 4:06 am

    I feel magically unraveled of my trigger a great bunch

  209.  #209Daria on January 14, 2010 at 4:08 am

    well the i have choices and i choose a man that feels good to me. and i choose one i feel safe and solid with. a diamond in the rough who can do it all like me.

    better and better ones are showing up.

    even this one with the no car was better than other wishy washy ones in the past

    and im feeling very comfortable being DIRECT with the wishy washy ones

    i told two other ones i dont drive to men today, besides this guy whos vibe felt good to me

  210.  #210Daria on January 14, 2010 at 4:11 am

    I still question MY VIBE!

    in the convo i posted. I feel concerned that L

    “a real” Goddess would instantly attract a man and he would say something like… oh noo… i can’t get to u… oh crap I HAVE TO… i will !!! just gime a chance!!

    because her vibe is Sooo inviting and he doesn’t want to lose her

    so i feel judgemental of myself that I didnt quite inspire that

    but it might just be the man

    even tho this scenario as you know gets repeated over and over

    or at least had been

    I WILL “get” one with a car dammit


    i know i will heal this

    thank u

    i feel good with my learnings and my experiments as well

  211.  #211mary on January 14, 2010 at 4:13 am


    You amaze me so much. I love this, and i’m with you here:
    “it feels off to judge a man on whether or not he has a car.”

    and this: “yes i “unchose” this man cuz he doesnt have a car. which feels still kinda off for me, so maybe thats my answer right there”

    I’m sorry I was talking to you like a mom. I’m catching myself and apologizing because it seems appropriate. It feels good to say I was wrong, and I’m sorry I was wrong. It isn’t patronizing or giving in to admit that. It’s learning.

    How could I have said this better to you, Daria? There are so many guys who would be able to be brave and make it through the war, even the subtle war that you talk about! And who would appreciate your stance and think you’re amazing. How can I be a tailwind for you to be able to find one of those for yourself?

    Maybe I could have started by saying I FEEL happy that you unchose this guy who didn’t have a car!

  212.  #212Daria on January 14, 2010 at 4:17 am

    I feel compelled to make excuses or just say my judgements allowed:

    “hey well… im a stuck up bitch so i only date a man with a car who wants to come and pick me up”

    and guys are like HUUHH? (cuz they dont get the stuck up bitch vibe from me .. m cuz im not)

    or how about…

    “hey i know its hard out there and you can get imprisoned or killed for trying to come see me, but i am looking for a man who can do that for me anyway”


    because i WANT TO TRY IT.

    i want to try being driven around and taken out.

    this is very important to me.


    yeah the chances FEEL slim right now like fishing in the river hoping youll catch an elephant seal. or a golden ring.

    but hey that one fisherman did catch a golden talking fish

    and i want it TO TURN AROUND!!!

    i wnat to be caught! by lots of driving fishermen

    i will this to happen

    sometimes i want to jsut move out this neighborhood and go somewhere more accessible

    that would feel cool

    i still want it to happen even with me here

    I KNOW it can happen and it will.



    maybe i should go to carshows.

    NOTE TO SELF> go to carshows

  213.  #213mary on January 14, 2010 at 4:18 am

    and this is exactly what i was thinking when i first read your convo!

    “but it might just be the man

    even tho this scenario as you know gets repeated over and over”

    and i was wondering, how can daria get a BETTER MAN, and of course, that was not the thing to wonder, because that was SO JUDGMENTAL.

    the thing to do was to say, hey… it isn’t cause you’re not an inspiration! it isn’t because you’re not doing everything a goddess would do! it’s because this particular man is not getting it!

    I think that’s what i wanted to say…

  214.  #214Daria on January 14, 2010 at 4:19 am

    Hi Mary! wow i feel really supported by you. tHANK YOU!

    i feel really good to read this from u

    “There are so many guys who would be able to be brave and make it through the war, even the subtle war that you talk about! And who would appreciate your stance and think you’re amazing”


    they would appreciate my stance!! yay

    but Rori says no stance. hmm… so maybe my boundary… yes yes…


    and i will continue to be totally honest, even sharing my insecurities athat i feel like a bitch requiring this

    its ok to feel like a bitch! im still requiring it! hehe!!!


  215.  #215mary on January 14, 2010 at 4:20 am

    i’ve been reading psychology books forever, and i’ve known about talking about feelings ever since the One Minute Manger book came out! but doing it… is still so new to me.

  216.  #216Daria on January 14, 2010 at 4:22 am

    hehe Mary I feel uplifted like im surfing a wave!

  217.  #217mary on January 14, 2010 at 4:23 am

    No, see… you’re not a bitch for requiring it! You’re just looking for what you want. And you want a man who’s figuring out how to get what he wants… YOU. Or someone really amazing, like you. And he knows he has to have certain things in order to attract someone like you!

    I feel confidant when I think about you. And I learn a lot from reading your posts.

  218.  #218mary on January 14, 2010 at 4:24 am

    oh, you make me laugh! thinking of you surfing!

  219.  #219mary on January 14, 2010 at 4:27 am

    oooooh, it’s nearly time to go! i’m gonna sleep for two hours before my ferry ride.

    g’nite daria…

  220.  #220Daria on January 14, 2010 at 4:33 am

    oh mary thank you1!! aaww ifeel smily i feel good and appreciated and honored!

    I liek this

    “I want a man who’s figuring out how to get what he wants… ME”


    let me try it

    aww papi that feels sad…

    i would feel really excited to meet u.

    and i dont want a man i have to drive to.

    i want a man who is figuring out how to get what he wants… and who wants me


    pretty good. i still feel a lil convincing vibe from me

    ii feel sad letting guys go who may be great guys because they have no car

    BUT they COULD take public transportation. so thats on them.

    yup yup.


    that feels relieving..

    i feel compelled to point out to them that they can take public transportation

    i would feel down to meet a man downtown.

    but it would feel GREAT to ride passenger seat

    dang. i mean theres so many women who DONT DRIVE.

    i feel tempted to now just say NO

    when guys say do you drive

    do you drive?


    oh hok

    then ill find out how to get to u


    do you drive?

    yeah… but i dont like driving to men.

    oh? but i dont have a car…

    blah blah blah

    and i dont want to lie

    i wish i just had a way to sidestep the awkwardness


    maybe the awkwardness is there cuz i havent fully healed this. i havent really come to terms with rejecting a man based on him not having a car. or based on him not having a convenient way of getting to me.

  221.  #221Daria on January 14, 2010 at 4:33 am

    Nite Mary!!!

  222.  #222mary on January 14, 2010 at 4:39 am

    i do feel the same way about rejecting a guy for not having a car.

    and that puts me on a little soapbox…

  223.  #223mary on January 14, 2010 at 4:45 am

    so many women who are older don’t love it that the guys their age want younger women.

    i’ve wondered about this.

    i think that:

    1. the men don’t care about soul mates any more. they’re just really, really worried that they’re gonna lose it if they don’t use it, and it’s getting harder and harder to get excited, and they need younger bodies to look at in order to do it, so they gravitate to younger women. if they were more secure about their virility, they wouldn’t need younger women.

    2. they don’t want anyone who reminds them of their ex-wives.

    3. there was a time when the situation was reversed; when younger girls (the ones their ages) went with older guys (ones who had cars and good jobs) and it’s not that it’s pay back time, it’s just the way things work. like men, in middle life, don’t want to work any more. women, who’ve been home raising kids, think it’s great fun to get out and get a career…

    4. and face it: if more older women could have younger men, they probably would… men do it because they CAN.

  224.  #224mary on January 14, 2010 at 4:47 am

    okay, good night.

  225.  #225Daria on January 14, 2010 at 4:55 am

    I think older women can have younger men. i think older women have just as great bodies as younger women. i mean just looking at my mom. wow.

  226.  #226Daria on January 14, 2010 at 4:56 am

    i didnt want the older guys, i always wanted guys my age, and now (after i got tricked one time and a younger guy lied about his age) younger.

    im “weird”


    im a Goddess.


  227.  #227mary on January 14, 2010 at 5:33 am

    well, those are just thoughts. and yes, older women can have younger men. i was thinking about marriage, and sometimes that works, too.

    depends on the people.

  228.  #228Tina on January 14, 2010 at 5:39 am

    I used “make me a sandwich” last night with ‘truckman” he called, I was not feeling like walking upstairs to get the phone, I checked the message later and it was him. I made coffee, sat down at my computer and started to download an antivirus. He sent me an email saying that he called and if he could call me, I sent him back a message saying” No, I dont feel like talking.” besides I am in the middle of downloading an antivirus, I am on dialup so that means I would lose every thing I downloaded. He asked if I would like to come over today, I said no, that he would pick me up, he is laid up on bed with a pulled muscle lol. < I do feel compassion for him, it's just that I dont feel like being his nurse maid, he asked if we were still on for friday at 5pm, I said yes. He says he cant stay up on his pc but he says he can drive for an hour here and back to pick me up yeah whatever. He asked if I was talking to "mooseman' i said no, he is blocked lol. I emailed my ex about his progress in getting our divorce, he's being an ass, or at least I dont like his answer.

  229.  #229Tina on January 14, 2010 at 5:53 am

    “truckman” is two years younger than me 🙂

  230.  #230Tina on January 14, 2010 at 6:09 am

    I feel slightly embarrassed but whatever, I was talking to “truckman” and we talked about sex yup, I asked him if he knew what a “prostate massage” was lol. He said no, I told him about it, he laughed and thats what you want to do to me, I said yeah sure. I’ve never done it before, he said oh oh, what? I dont feel confident in doing it only because I’ve never done it before 🙂 he thinks im bluffing but I really do want to try it 🙂 woohoo sounds interesting, he says yes ok but feels nervous hehe. I did some homework on the subject so I know something about it. I know where it is and all the other precautionary stuff.

  231.  #231Tina on January 14, 2010 at 6:17 am

    It’s mostly referred to as “sacred spot massage” on the website I visited.

  232.  #232DocK on January 14, 2010 at 8:31 am

    Feeling very grateful to Rori. I love that the programs, direct emails and blog posts actually offer tools to help me/us through what can feel confusing, sad, painful, anxious around relationships as well as promote the calming, happy, surprised, peaceful feelings.

    I have tried therapy for specific issues, I’m not completely knocking it, it had helpful moments and delivered a few insights and I know that the therapist isn’t there to tell me what to do in terms of decision-making…but when it came to ways to turn-around thought processes and behaviors – I often felt like, ‘Geez, tell me SOMETHING! Give me some tools to use to help me do this.’

    It really is practicing and baby-steps with Rori’s tools and sometimes shaking my head at myself when I “screw up” but I know better than to beat myself up and just practice and baby-step some more.

    I see that here reading the stories. I feel like a cheerleader with pom poms yelling “first and ten do it again” but instead of football thinking of a siren having a first and then a second.. and so on of circular dating and then I want to do one of those funny dances the guys do when they make a touch down and feel smug and proud when one of you moves closer to what you want even if it’s by means of leaning back.

    Not much news to deliver on my end – just practicing and baby-stepping too…

  233.  #233Sherry on January 14, 2010 at 8:40 am

    Thank you for taking the time to reply to me Kay. You are absolutely correct. I am scared! I have been working on overcoming fear, but I haven’t gotten as far as I would like. I am guarded and closed off and just the thought of opening up frightens me. Baby steps!

    I learn so much just from reading this blog. The way you goddess’ express yourselves and grow as women is exciting and makes me hopeful. I feel very privelaged to be able to witness this. I feel very appreciative and honored that you share so much. Thank you all!

  234.  #234Tina on January 14, 2010 at 9:38 am

    My neighbor texas hold em teacher is picking me up lol, he almost takes off my porch when he comes to pick me up lol. He drives me where ever I want to go 🙂 the sun is shining and the Goddess is going out.

  235.  #235dorothea on January 14, 2010 at 9:42 am

    i don’t use my real name on here but it seems as somehow this creep who is interested in me and has already cyber stalked me in other capacities has found me on this blog.

    I feel…sorry for him. it’s pretty pathetic how he goes about things.

  236.  #236dorothea on January 14, 2010 at 9:45 am

    the creepy part is that he isn’t like “i found you on this blog.” what he does is bring up conversations related to the blog as though he were just really in tune with my interests and thinking.


  237.  #237dorothea on January 14, 2010 at 9:48 am

    i don’t want to be manipulated or spied on secretly. i feel violated and cornered. i feel like RUNNNNNN

  238.  #238mary on January 14, 2010 at 10:21 am

    dorothea! horror! how would he ever have found it?

  239.  #239dorothea on January 14, 2010 at 10:52 am

    i dunno…he also found my court and collections records and articles I’d been featured in, which are public if you have enough of a person’s information.

    it doesn’t bother that he cyber stalked me. we all do a little bit of that and he is quite good at it. what makes me feel sick is the way he tries to bring the things he finds up with me, as though he never cyber stalked me in the first place. CREEPY CREEPY CREEPY. or responding to something i say in a text with a comment about a photo radar ticket i got, not mentioning how he knows about that. CREEPY CREEPY CREEPY yuck get away.

    Well if someone cyberstalks me down here, this is the one place I definitely let my emotions out. Not too pretty for the offending party.

    As soon as I posted that first comment, all his messages to me stopped.

  240.  #240laughing goddess on January 14, 2010 at 11:34 am

    Dorothea: I feel uncomfortable and creeped out! Ewwww!

  241.  #241laughing goddess on January 14, 2010 at 11:36 am

    Good luck on your test Mary!

  242.  #242laughing goddess on January 14, 2010 at 11:43 am

    I feel embarrassed to say this but I woke up feeling super craving of sexual intimacy! In other words, I am f-ing horny! I hope Mr. Next ( whomever he is) is ready to get down! Two years is too long. Week long dating intensive with Mr. Tender was great but I want more and he is in South America! Is it wrong that I don’t care so much about finding Mr. Forever right now and I just want to find Mr. Committed to giving me lots and lots of sexual intimacy and orgasms? Maybe he will be one and the same. That would feel great! Thank you universe for bringing him to me quickly! 🙂

  243.  #243dorothea on January 14, 2010 at 11:45 am

    LG, Hell yeah I feel you on that! It’s been a year for me.. I was just thinking about letting go of my old beliefs about sex and commitment and trying it as part of the courtship process. Yum!

  244.  #244laughing goddess on January 14, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Ha ha dorothea! Yes yes! Yum!

  245.  #245laughing goddess on January 14, 2010 at 11:54 am

    Oh God! It hurts!!!!


  246.  #246Rachel on January 14, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Hi everybody!

    I know that Rori talks a lot about visualization and I know the Law of Attraction stuff does work, but I’ve always struggled to keep my mind focused on what I want. I just found this great tool called Mind Movies where you can put together pictures and affirmations into a little movie to watch. They are running a special right now on their kit for $20!!!

    And even if you don’t want to spend that right now, they have free 3 min movies you can download for free … one on love, finances, health, spirituality, etc.

    Just thought I’d pass it on. I’m really excited! I’ve been watching the free ones for about a week and I’m looking forward to receiving all these good things that are headed my way!!

    Here’s the link:

    Great testimonials on there too! It’s encouraging!

  247.  #247Simply Shannon on January 14, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    Daria: I feel frustrated for you. I keep reading through that post trying to figure out a way that you could have handled it differently. Only two thoughts come to mind…
    1) parts of the dialogue sound like you’re explaining why you feel something. “I wanna be the lady” versus “I don’t feel comfortable driving to men”. After I’ve said my feelings about something once, I might be feeling annoyed that I’m having to repeat it. Maybe cut the explaining and just say “no I don’t feel comfortable driving”?
    2) Is it possible to ask the guy what he would suggest? “I feel uncomfortable driving to men. Is there something else you could suggest? I feel stumped. It would feel great to meet you.” Or something like that?? It’s almost like saying “I have this problem. I don’t feel comfortable driving to men. Any ideas how we can resolve this?”

    I sense your frustration and I feel empathy! I believe you deserve your heart’s desire and that includes a man who will pick you up! The guys emailing me lately aren’t what I want and it stinks. Mr. Fab Kisser is the only one right now who I like. I’m focusing on getting myself into situations where I meet more of the types of men I want. I love your car show idea!! 😉

    I also wanted to mention something about Mary’s comment that triggered you. When I read it, I thought “oh gosh, Daria is gonna flip”. So I feel curious. Trigger goes off… we experience the feelings inside and love those feelings but then how do we practice relating that feeling in a healthy way? I mean, if I’m Mary (i.e. the receiver) and you’re feeling rage towards me, I would feel turned off and disconnected and scared. I would want to shut you out. How do we create that connection, that “pulling together and learning” and not the “push away and leave”?

    I realize the blog itself is a way to get out those feelings and that’s partly a “tool”. But when I get triggered (a great example would be Mr. Manly Man’s anger a few weeks ago), how do I go from TRIGGER (anger, shut down, scared, run, run, run) to being able to express my feelings in such a way that doesn’t escalate things? I guess I’m wanting a way to express what I’m feeling but still feel calm. When I read your response to Mary, I felt the rage, not the calm. is that just because you’re using the blog as a tool or is that how we should handle that situation in real life?

    I feel very confused. I know I’ve personally written “I feel triggered” on here a lot and then just blasted the hell out of whoever triggered me but that wouldn’t be what I would want to do in real life. Real feelings yes but not the blasting part. I want the things that trigger me to no longer trigger me or trigger me less. Is that the goal? Again, feeling confused and I hope my question comes out as literally a question to you Daria and not “I think you responded wrong” which is NOT what I mean.

  248.  #248Daria on January 14, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    Hi Shannon – thanks for wanting to help me! hehe

    i feel comfortable and with the idea of and relish expressing anger and rage in feeling messages.

    i’ve noticed that when other people are expressing anger in Feeling messages i have not felt pushed away as i expected to feel.

    I must say i didnt’ totally have 100% feeling messages but i am babystepping.

    in real life I would address it somehow short.

    ie –

    wow im feeling really surprised hearing this. i feel absolutely furious hearing the part about the english. feel angry and sad when i hear of people being judged on how they speak. and i feel defensive when its about a man i am interacting with.

    something like that maybe

    i feel glad im in touch with my anger! it was a first big step for me on blog. also i felt touched by the Let out your Drama Queen post… and so ever since ive felt much freer to let out my drama queen.

    Mary did not say she felt pushed away.

  249.  #249Daria on January 14, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    I feel icky and sad assuming she did because my energy was powerful.

    i feel better sticking with what she DID say which was not “i feel pushed away.”

  250.  #250Simply Shannon on January 14, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    You’re right Daria. I am projecting my own feelings onto how Mary reacted. I guess how I interpret the conversation is that you expressed your anger and Mary retreated with “I’m sorry… I didn’t mean… let me explain… this is what I really meant (a watered down version of what was really said)”. I relate with Mary. In real life when faced with anger, I retreat. I am sick to death of cowering to someone else’s anger. Wow. Now I feel triggered.

    See – I really don’t understand how to state what I’m feeling without a) attacking or b) running.

    I feel annoyed.
    I feel angry.
    I feel small and defenseless.
    I feel PISSED that I feel small and defenselss.

    But I don’t want to lash out. Grrrrrr.

    So if I said what Mary said and you reacted how you reacted, I’d probably say:

    I feel defensive but you’re right. I shouldn’t judge who you are attracted to. That’s not my business. Personally I don’t feel attracted to men who don’t speak good English, which is why I made the comment in the first place. I don’t want to assume that what is attractive to me is the same thing that is attractive to someone else. I feel bad for doing that. What do you think?

    Am I on target here? Is this a “good” response? This is the truth for me. I don’t want to explain how I wasn’t being judgemental or racist or whatever. I feel a bit angry that Mary was explaining her way out of the comment.

    Still bubbling with anger over here. Shit. What’s a good tool when feeling anger?

  251.  #251Kay on January 14, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    @Rachel, thanks for the mind movies link, seems incredible, I already use creative visualization in my life so this should be very interesting to create my own mind movie.


  252.  #252alias girl on January 14, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    simply shannon. the riffing tool. the “i feel ______” ad naseum until you run out of feelings. and then loving the feelings “i love my angry self. i love my pissiness” etc. and with that the feelings morph and neutralize and you are left with energy to go into a channeling activity if you like.

    if possible you can riff and do this And Then confront the person.

    if triggered and need to deal with the person in the moment i just do my best. try not to attack. express my feelings in a non blaming way. but when in that triggered moment it is certainly the most challenging because my fight /flight response is coming up which means it has triggered a sort of life and death reaction so i just try and have compassion afterward for myself and the other person.

    but i feel once a person gets healthier they will be able to respond to more and more situations that used to trigger them and often they won’t even feel triggered but will still feel the need to set boundaries. at least this is my experience.

    but if the opportunity comes up, practice has served me well rather than just running from everything like i used to. nowadays i’d rather take the risk of “overreacting”, alienating, being misunderstood, etc etc etc by practicing feeling messages and drawing boundaries with people. because then i am a more capable person in the world to go and do and be and have what i want.

  253.  #253laughing goddess on January 14, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    Goddesses, I need your support. As part of focusing on my own life, I am committed to developing some healthy routines for myself. Will post more later (battery about to die). I’m excited for these changes! Thanks!

  254.  #254mary on January 14, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    hey there! i’m giving you my little photo blog just to say hi today. and then i’m gonna take it off. i hope there’s no cyber connection and then R is gonna come roaring over and find me, like Dorothea’s guy found her!

    i just wanted to be less anonymous today.

    simply shannon: i feel blessed and caressed and loved and understood by your comments!

    daria: i feel ashamed and a little bit judged, and i did a little judging myself, and i also feel a little misunderstood.

    i want to say that i have good feelings towards you, daria. i feel happy about your process. it’s helping my process. i’m tracking with you. you say things here that i would NEVER say here, or anywhere else! but when i read them, i smile! i say YES! something inside me would like to be so expressive, but never will be. and that’s okay. i feel amused and playful and young and daring when i read your posts. if i trigger you, that’s okay! i learned something last night.

    but you know what? my good feelings towards you make me want to reach out to you. is the only way to do that in the sharing of my feelings? what if you’re getting ready to jump over a ditch, and i know that there are poisonous snakes on the other side, do i just say, “i feel worried?” do i not mention the snakes?

    i’m confused about that.

    love the conversation, though.

  255.  #255Lola on January 14, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    Wowwwwww Mary!

    Beautiful photos beautiful scenery beautiful Mary!

    Thanks for sharing those.


  256.  #256mary on January 14, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    awwwwww… thanks…

  257.  #257Daria on January 14, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    LG hey i want to do that too! i want to naturally and effortlessly stretch, “fun” out, brush, wash, style my hair, try makeup… as easily and effortlessly as i check rori’s blog!


  258.  #258Daria on January 14, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    hi Mary. I feel triggered reading that “you never will be.”

    that feels really sad

    it triggers me because my mom said to me well “i will never be an exhuberant person”

    i feel angry reading that.

    i first came to the blog not saying daring or expressive stuff. and i grew from that.

    i first came here not knowing what a feeling was. at all. not a concept

    i feel unworthy to keep on being triggered and keep on feeling judgemental on your comments

    i feel like im harassing you. that feels bad.

    about teh snakes:

    i would say… i feel worried, i know theres snakes on the other side. what do you think?

    im feeling sad. i feel sad because i hear you say you feel good towards me and i keep feeling judgemental. but also good.

    and that feels sad. it reminding me 0f my relatiohship with a friend of mine. who gets drunk and says she loves me but sometimes she does stuff not good to herself and sometimes subtly to me.

    not that u are her mary, or even really doing that – thats the image that i get and that triggers me


    Daria feels a lil sad.

  259.  #259mary on January 14, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    hmmmmmm… i feel sad about the association, too.

    but i love my quiet, caring and calm nature. “like a lake, on breezeless day…” someone wrote to me.

    i have a daughter who wants me to be enthusiastic, and the life of the party with whooping and hollering, and i just don’t feel like myself when i try! i do it sometimes – for her, and for a laugh – and always she cocks her head and says, “mom, are you being sarcastic?”

    and then i’m back to me again.

  260.  #260dorothea on January 14, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    every time i see a photo or the work of a poster from this blog, i feel shocked! like all of you goddesses are too beautiful and talented and interesting to have any relationship cares in the world.

  261.  #261mary on January 14, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    i will make an effort not to overstep boundaries by giving my unsolicited opinion. i will try to share feelings, what i don’t want, and then say, “what do you think?” i will work on this formula until i know it by heart and then i will launch my own rocketship and go into my own diva world.

  262.  #262Lola on January 14, 2010 at 5:38 pm


    I know!

    I clicked on every poster who’s name had a red link and thought the same about every single one!

    Yes, All of you! : ))))

  263.  #263mary on January 14, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    i rode the ferry over. it rained. i had my scrambled eggs and bacon. they were cold. i studied on the ferry. someone was playing cards next to me. i went to the test site. it was cold and clinical and scary. (they lock your purse and coat in a closet.) i checked in at the hotel. they didn’t want to check me in without one of my business cards, and i left them at home! they did it anyway. R called, “where are you?” and i told him. i didn’t want him to know!

    i feel mad. i love my angry feelings because they let me know that i have boundaries.

    i feel sad. i love my sad feelings because they remind me that most of the time i’m pretty happy.

    i feel lots of fear. i love these feelings because they tell me that i have ambition and want to succeed in life.

    i feel some shame. i love being reminded that i’m here, trying to pass a test for which i haven’t studied.

    : (

    i feel glad. i love feeling this! i feel courageous! i feel hopeful! i feel suddenly in the mood to study some more!

  264.  #264mary on January 14, 2010 at 6:18 pm


    i find myself wanting to explain something.

    when i said this to daria, “you say things here that i would NEVER say,” i didn’t mean that they were outlandish, awful things and that i’m too good to say them. i meant that i’m not sure i would ever think of things to say that are as creative and inventive and that work with the tools and that go by the book, and are simply, completely daria, too. and i love, love, love reading those things. because they’re expressive and unique and different and because some of them have lots of thought behind them. they get me thinking, too! and feeling. and laughing and smiling.

  265.  #265mary on January 14, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    and i just remembered something from alanon: when you take care of another person (when that person can care for himself or herself) you are not respecting that person.

    so that might be what happened last night? i did not respect daria’s choice of men, or her ability to make good choices at all.

    i understand now.

    thank you.

  266.  #266laughing goddess on January 14, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    Sweet Daria!!! Let’s support each other on our self care ritual/routine development. Any other goddesses want to join?

  267.  #267Daria on January 14, 2010 at 7:24 pm

    Mary! your blog is beautiful.

    and you CAN say things that are wonderfully creative and unique and fresh and Mary!


    to me it seemed like you were putting yourself down or limiting yourself and judging yourself

    and that felt SAD

    and i felt irked and angry too, a lil bit in a tiny way, i felt suspicious.

    I do not want to be praised by someone who is at the same time putting themselves down.

    i want up up up for all of us!

    LG – lets do it?! ps – thank you and how is Lefkoe working for you?

  268.  #268Daria on January 14, 2010 at 7:36 pm

    I feel sad confused, guilty, dragged down.

    I feel like im getting a UTI again (i was with sex man).

    and im taking care of myself well and more promptly.


    i dont want to have sex wiht sex man.

    and i feel guilty.

    i feel guilty thinking that im “rejecting” him

    i love my guilt.

    i feel guilty because it’s because sex doesnt feel so good, and he hasnt had much sex, and blah blah

    i did not know how to teach him the “moves” of guywhohadababy

    i feel disappointed

    i feel guilty and uncomfortable suggesting that i teach him these moves

    it feels easier to not pick up his calls when he calls

    the other thing is i feel like im getting more involved emotionally and it’s feeling clearer that we are on a friends level

    i would actually feel cool to be friends with him. Thouhg, i would feel Jealous if he was to be wiht anoither woman in front of me.

    SO maybe what i really want is for him to develop feelings for me, and


    dedicate himself to learning how to please ME rather than pleasing himself and meanwhile also trying not to hurt me

    i feel sad

    the thought is he’s young, he’s just learning. he’ll feel bad. he’ll feel abandoned and hurt if i cut off our friendship

    but i dont want to feel bad

    I am going to tell him taht if he would like to date me, then i would feel cool to have him take me out, the way other men would dating me .

    that i wont be coming to him anymore.

    that i feel good and friendly with him,

    how do i share that i want him to take a mini course, from ME, on how to please me?

    it feels exciting to have sex with you, but i feel hurt and i feel like theres a lot missing that could be there. i feel really awkward saying this, but i would feel good if you wanted me to teach you some things on how to please me.

    – some more coming in now: roger: right now im feeling resentful because ive been gettting the feeling that you are more focused on yourself – and that feels bad. and i feel good when i know you’re trying not to hurt me, and thats not enough. i want a man whos all about pleasing me.

    sharing sex with you feels fun, but not fun enough.



    i feel guilty

    cuz i would take on another sex man if i felt more pleased.

    i feel guilty that i dont feel pleased

    i feel guilty that i dont really feel pleased by my ex either, on some things.

    i feel worried that so far in my experience i haven’t had the experience of a man who didnt please me at first starting to please me more. if anything its been the opposite.

    help help.


    i feel guilty! i love my guilt.

    i feel tied down and ick. i feel like aaah i dont want to answer his calls (thinking). he hasn’t actually called me

    if he were to call me right now, mm i probably Would feel like answering his calls.

    i feel confused


    i love my confusion

  269.  #269Rori Raye on January 14, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    What a brilliant idea – self-care ritual/routine development! Count me in! Love, Rori

  270.  #270Rori Raye on January 14, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    Mary – This is so much in a nutshell: When you take care of another person (when that person can care for himself or herself) you are not respecting that person. Love, Rori

  271.  #271Rori Raye on January 14, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    Thank you, Alias Girl, for the riffing expression…very beautiful..Love, Rori

  272.  #272mary on January 14, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    thank you, Rori.

    the next post about toxicity is my issue.

    i’ve been keeping my feelings journal, and highlighting all the feelings with colors.

    so today, when i talked with R, his soothing voice just melted me. he said, “i could tell you were very upset last night, even though you didn’t say anything about it. i’d be interested to hear about it when you want to talk.” words that throw arrows of love my way, which i gladly receive.


    for all my journal entries of this week’s happenings, and the way i felt this week. i looked over my journal earlier today, when i first got the hotel and was too upset to study, and i saw RED, RED, RED… purple, RED RED blue, blue… almost no happy YELLOWS.

    The bible says keep no record of wrongs.

    I’m not sure what to think about that.

  273.  #273laughing goddess on January 14, 2010 at 9:03 pm

    Yay Rori! I feel so excited about this!

    I’m feeling curious about where to post our experiences, what we want to focus on, etc. We could post here in the comments or start a special section, or …

    What do you think?

  274.  #274mary on January 14, 2010 at 9:20 pm

    laughing goddess, i have so many goals i’d like to work on! sounds like so much fun to track our progress!

  275.  #275Tina on January 14, 2010 at 11:18 pm

    I am not respecting him , if he can take care of himself, I knew there was something intuitive about that comment and how I feel about taking care or being truckmans “nursemaid’ I feel way better, I was feeling bitchy 🙂 this comment has put a different light on the situation. great to hear thank you.

  276.  #276alias girl on January 15, 2010 at 3:07 am

    mary thank you so much for sharing your beautiful photos and self!!! 🙂 i feel supportive in you taking your test!!!!!

    rori – thank you. for sooo soo much. xoxo

  277.  #277DocK on January 15, 2010 at 7:33 am


    Such beautiful photographs. It is amazing the way pictures can make us (me) feel so much.

    Thank you : )

  278.  #278DocK on January 15, 2010 at 7:41 am

    LG – feel happy about your routine. Say more here or (hope OK, Rori,) I have site with blog wanting to know what questions people have (mind/body/spirit fitness) and I can answer there (would be my first post).

  279.  #279laughing goddess on January 15, 2010 at 10:17 am

    Great DocK! I feel excited to check out your blog! Thanks so much for your support!

  280.  #280laughing goddess on January 15, 2010 at 10:24 am

    Wow! I have to say, my week long dating intensive with Mr. Tender really changed the way I feel about J. I still feeling loving and appreciative of him but it made me realize how great it feels to have a man around who is into me and not aloof. J teases me a lot about only liking aloof guys. Well, I feel bored with aloof. I feel energized by a man who is interested and is willing to be present. Circular dating really does level the playing field. I just want to be careful not to just put Mr. T on a pedestal now. No more men on pedastals!!!! No more aloofness. I only let goddess lovers into my life now.

    I almost feel bad for J.

    On another note…Rori’s interview this month is amazing!!!! I highly recommend to all. Lisa Steadman is her name I believe. Did anyone else hear that?

  281.  #281Daria on January 15, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    LG – thanks for that reminder. I am getting ready to hear it now.

  282.  #282laughing goddess on January 15, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Cool Daria!

    I haven’t completed the Lefkoe work. Have some resistance. Mostly that it felt boring. Does he use the same videos for each belief or do they change. I feel the value in the work. And the awareness I gained from the 5 or 6 beliefs I eliminated feels effective and powerful.

    Did you get bored when doing them?

  283.  #283laughing goddess on January 15, 2010 at 1:51 pm


    I like your recent pictures on your blog. To me, you look like a sexy elf in those pics. 🙂

  284.  #284laughing goddess on January 15, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    Oh my gosh! I am looking at all of your blogs and webpages!!!

    Wow! You are all amazing!!!

    DocK, Daria, AG, SS, Mary!!!

    Holy cow! I feel impressed and amazed and inspired!

  285.  #285Daria on January 15, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    LG – yes i did complete it and even did two sessions with Shelly Lefkoe over the phone. I did the at home program kind of fast though. I feel shaky.

    it would feel good to be “completely” debeliefed of those.

    especially the deconditioning for having anxiety at not meeting expectations

    i still feel that

    but the day i did it, i didnt. which was pretty cool.

  286.  #286alias girl on January 15, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    laughing goddess that felt super yummy to read “only goddess lover now” YES!!!!!!

    i love it. only goddess lovers now.

    ha. i feel good to just keep repeating that to myself.

    RULE #1 – only goddess lovers now!

  287.  #287laughing goddess on January 15, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    Daria! I have something that I feel inspired to share with you! I am Internet challenged at the moment. I will try to stay on chat. Hit me up if you can.

  288.  #288Daria on January 15, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    Hi Lg. wow i’ve never used gmail chat
    i just signed on rite now

  289.  #289Lisa on January 15, 2010 at 6:55 pm


    The Dog Whisperer is brilliant. I learn something from every show. His main message is, take your rightful power.

    When your energy is off, the dog/man doesn’t know how to behave. He will drive you mad, and become quite destructive. Give him something to do that is appropriate for him. Don’t let him walk all over you. Don’t be neurotic, or he will be.

    Be consistent, love him, but don’t let him rule you.

  290.  #290Daria on January 15, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    hehe thanks lisa –

    heres a cool comment i got from under one of hte dog whisperer youtube vids. (hint replace dog with man

    4) If your dog is already perfect, has no flaws, (for example if your dog doesnt bark excessively, minds you, responds to 1 attempt to call it towards you, goes for walks while being calm/submissive) then disregard the Dog Whisperer because you already know how to properly care for a dog. For many people these things are common sense & come natural, for people who are timid and scared of hurting the dog or hurting its feelings then they need this kind of help that the dog whisperer offers.

    I really like the last lin:

    For many women these things are common sense & come natural, for women who are timid and scared of hurting the man or hurting his feelings then they need this kind of help that Rori offers.



    and also all could benefit! from doing the work

  291.  #291mary on January 16, 2010 at 12:22 am


    my daughter is a dog trainer!

    thank you for all the nice comments about my little blog.



    thrilled, surprised, disbelief, relieved, looking-forward-now!, no more all-nighters!, legit, professional, WOMAN, GODDESS REALTOR!

    this is huge! it’s not like the tests in the States. this is CANADA. they take tests very seriously here.

    i did study. thank you, alias girl, for giving support! and everyone else.

    I think i was having lots of test anxiety last week. i’ve been studying on the computer and resting for a while on siren island, then studying again, and so on… sorry to dominate so much with my ANXIETIES!

    i love all of you!


  292.  #292alias girl on January 16, 2010 at 12:31 am

    YYYYYYYEEEESSSSSS!!!!!! CONGRATULATIONS MARY!!!!!!!!!! i feel very proud of you. yae. oh i feel very uplifted. yae. 🙂 nice job. job well done. you deserve it. yeeee. !

    things are a happenin’ for zee sirens. 🙂

  293.  #293mary on January 16, 2010 at 12:53 am

    thank you, alias girl! thank you for feeling supportive! i really appreciated that.

    it’s still sinking in. i just got my results back a few hours ago… oh! now i can get to work.

    i wish i knew how you attract money so easily! any tips?

  294.  #294mary on January 16, 2010 at 12:57 am


    i’ve been trying to do this test for a YEAR. and things happened. and i needed to take care of various family members. there were births. there were deaths. there were goddess things to do. and lately there were men! and there were siren things to do. so the studying was soooooo sporadic!

    i didn’t feel like it would ever happen that i would be ready enough to take the test! so i JUST SCHEDULED IT. about a week ago. and told myself that it could just be a practice run!

    and low and behold! i am a realtor today!

    praise God.

  295.  #295Daria on January 16, 2010 at 1:30 am



  296.  #296Daria on January 16, 2010 at 1:31 am

    i feel impressed!

  297.  #297mary on January 16, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    thank you!

    feelin’ fine…

  298.  #298Lisa on January 16, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Congrats, Mary.

    That is a good observation from the vids, Daria. If we are timid or insecure, we need some help. Once we get our power balance right, as Milan says, the dog then understands his role and can behave accordingly. He can trust your consistency.

    Energy balance and knowing who we are, and who he, is the key.

  299.  #299mary on January 16, 2010 at 6:23 pm

    thanks Lisa!

  300.  #300Nancy on January 17, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    Back to the post that started this thread, if I were to meet and feel myself falling for a man who said he wouldn’t consider the idea of marriage for 2 years, and like Gina, this is what my man said to me, I would say, “wow, i just don’t feel like you’re someone i want to move forward with. that feels too long to me. i couldn’t be comfortable with that. i need to take some time and think about this one.” if he didn’t come back with something that fit me and my needs better, i’d move on. i’m going to make it one of my screening tools, to ask a man on a first or second date how they feel about marriage and how long they think a couple should wait. if i don’t like the answer, then i’ll say “Next!”

  301.  #301Nancy on January 17, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    oh wow mary! congratulations!

  302.  #302Simply Shannon on January 17, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    For some reason I keep getting this weird thing at the bottom of the page and can’t post. Finally letting me on here and I don’t have a ton of time.

    Just wanted to congratulate MARY on your test! Woohoo!!

    And love the pictures on your blog pretty lady! 😉

  303.  #303DocK on January 19, 2010 at 10:05 am

    Jumping in on the congratulations, Mary!!

    Law of attraction & money…

    I grew up blue collar until my parents split up – then things changed drastically and were very very hard for us financially (eg washed clothes on a scrub board, walked barefoot an entire summer cuz I didn’t have shoes, etc.)

    I ended up with some seriously flawed beliefs about money. I felt angry and resentful and believed that wealthy people were rude and arrogant with an attitude of entitlement, etc.

    At some point, I sort of woke up. I noticed that although some of my poor neighbors truly had hearts of gold – others – you didn’t want to turn your back on ’em, they would rob you or stab you! I also noticed as I came into contact with wealthier people that this didn’t mean their lives were perfect either. they too could have experiences of a family member with alcohol problems, a son’ suicide, etc. I also noticed that some wealthy people did wonderful things to help others. Good and bad behaviors were not dependent exclusively on income but choices, values and integrity.

    I realized that my very strong feelings and beliefs about wealthy people were in the way of attracting prosperity. On the one hand I was saying i wanted to be rich – on the other I was saying that rich people sucked – did the universe really believe I wanted to become one of them? Where were my strongest feelings and beliefs?

    I am not saying that anyone here holds these same beliefs. I am saying that we all do have beliefs and strong feelings around prosperity and lack and sometimes digging deep into those can help to ferret out what they are that can be standing in the way of attracting what we SAY we want when, in the meantime, we hold very strong beliefs and feelings that say something else.

    I am doing well financially and intend to continue to have this experience and even expand from where I am. I intend and choose to give not only to myself but to the people and things I care about – money can do great good in our world. The people in Haiti certainly need it.

    I also feel that this why the idea of “tithe” is so important. I know many people (myself too at times) that felt “I just can’t right now. I don’t have it to give.” But that is thinking from lack consciousness. We can always give something and this creates the circulation of wealth. When I was in grad school and had bill collectors calling (ick) I loved a public radio station. I didn’t give money but I went and dontated my time to stuff envelopes for a fund-raising drive.

    I hope I didn’t go on too much about this. I know this is a relationship blog – but I think these same limiting ideas can play into so many areas of our lives.

    some people have no problem attracting money but can’t seem to have good relationships and vice versa.

    Rori and this blog and the comments help us to re-think limiting beliefs and created new patterns of thought and change our lives!

  304.  #304Simply Shannon on January 19, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Dock: It’s funny that you mentioned tithing. I was going to write something about that. (Law of attraction happening? lol.) I just started tithing. That first time, I thought “this is nuts” because I’m so broke right now. But I went ahead and did it anyway. I’m beginning to realize that how I spend my money is a reflection of what I believe is important. So, I wrote the check for XYZ amount. Later that day, my grandmother writes me a check for XYZ amount plus a little more. I never spoke to her about me tithing. She just wanted to give me a little extra money that week. I just had to laugh because I felt so worried about writing that tithe check and God gave me back that money plus some extra. Another time around Christmas I was giving an extra donation on top of my normal tithe. I prayed about how much and God gave me a number. I kind of freaked about it but wrote the check anyway. Next day I’m looking through old papers from when I moved to my new house. Found a check I had not cashed for three times the amount of the donation I wrote. 🙂

  305.  #305DocK on January 19, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    SS: Wow – such wonderful examples! That’s how it works in a nutshell : )

  306.  #306Lisa on January 19, 2010 at 1:31 pm


    Thank you for sharing about limiting beliefs. It is so applicable to relationships.

    I am here because of a dysfunctional relationship, which I now reject, but only because I had reached bottom. However, I am not yet open to the Full Monty. I guess it’s baby steps for me. Picking up my self-esteem, then looking at what needs to be changed.

    A big lesson from this blog is, love everything — all of you. If there are tight places, don’t shut them down, bring them out. So I am learning how to heal me. Such a big change from focusing on the man, or any non-functional thing in my life.

    How did it get there? I allowed it! It met some need. I am learning that I deserve to be happy, so what does not serve that need can go. As Rori says,
    the only important question about a man (or anyone) is: How do YOU feel when in their company.

    Limiting beliefs will allow me to accept less than I could have.

  307.  #307Jennie on January 19, 2010 at 1:58 pm


    Please help me. I’m sad and angry and on the verge of tears every moment of the day. I need some direction, please.

    I don’t even know where to begin my head is spinning. I started seeing someone about three months ago – but it has without a doubt been the most odd and frustrating “relationship” I have ever been involved in. We see each other maybe once a week – a lot of these times are when we meet out for drinks – sometimes late on wknd nights. When we are together we have these incredible converstations. We have shared our feelings for each other, have talked about the future, he even told me last Wednesday that he loves me and he feels that being “in love” with me is going to come as well. I have told him I want a real relationship, that I want to feel safe and happy and before that happens I will be dating other men. He also sees someone once in awhile but they have not had sex in months (we too have not had sex…he’s not a man whore by any means). He naturally doesn’t like that I’m dating others. We’ve both shared that we want a relationship, that we love being in relationships and yet this is going nowhere. In his own words he said ‘we’re in limbo and I hate limbo. You’re scared that I won’t commit and I’m scared that you won’t be able to let go of these other men’, so here we are stuck in limbo and you won’t pull the trigger and I won’t pull the trigger’. I have told him I need him to make the effort but he just doesn’t seem to do it. Last Wed. after one of our very deep conversations (my heart sings when we talk like this) he told me that his big fear is that he’s afraid he can’t make me happy. I told him that couldn’t be further from the truth that I feel completely happy when we’re together, he makes me laugh and I feel safe. I said it’s when we’re not together that things feel awkward. I trust him. He is a good man. He looks me directly in the eyes and is always the initiator of talks about the relationship and the future. I saw him Wed. I invited him over to dinner on Friday, Saturday he told me he couldn’t (had a friend in from out of town), and now it’s Tues and I haven’t heard from him. This is frequently how it goes. I never know when I’ll hear from him or see him again.

    The problem is that while I’m dating others I don’t know if I can take this any longer. I feel I’m falling apart at the seams. But at the same time my gut is telling me this is the guy. I have never (I’m 34) felt this kind of connection and chemistry with another man. He too told me he’s only felt this way about someone 2 or 3 times before (he’s 37). It is like magic when we’re together. I just cannot, for the life of me, figure out why he says all of these wonderful things and doesn’t follow it up with action.

    I’m thinking of sending him an email telling him of my feelings. That this is too hard to continue to do adn that I want to find a real serious relationship but that it’s too hard to do while he’s in my life. I want to ask him not to contact me so that I can find something meaningful, that I feel sad but I need to move on.

    Please send me your thoughts

  308.  #308Simply Shannon on January 19, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    Jen: I would feel confused too but I also feel a little weird, like maybe there’s a some leaning forward going on here. I would lean back. No calls, no emails. Date myself and circular date. Are you holding spots open in your availability for him? Are you initiating contact or planning your dates? Maybe it would feel better to just back off a bit. I would feel bad emailing him to cut him off. If I got an email from a guy saying that (and I have), it feels slimy, like what they are really doing is wanting me to contact them and have me say “no, don’t go”. I don’t want to be that girl!!

    Rori says that all that matters is how I feel when I’m with a man. if I feel scared, that’s a signal. If I feel annoyed or confused, that’s a signal. It sounds like you feel very frustrated and confused.

    If a guy said he doesn’t believe he can make me happy, I would feel confused and curious. “What are your reasons for believing that?”

    Three months ago, you probably didn’t believe you could meet a guy this cool and now you have. Maybe if you cut him loose (at least from your laser focus… you can still date him if you want but really tone down his status), you would make room for an even greater guy to step up.

  309.  #309Lisa on January 19, 2010 at 9:03 pm

    S. Shannon,

    Would you agree that, “If a guy said he doesn’t believe he can make me happy,” he is telling the truth? I do.

    Whether it is cold-hard truth, or giving you a soft-landing doesn’t matter; it’s the truth.

  310.  #310DocK on January 20, 2010 at 11:00 am

    Yes, Lisa, I know what you mean. I have had relationships with guys that really were wonderful to me but also some very toxic ones. I hit bottom, more than once.

    A lot of soul-searching and self-reflection. That is what I had to do and continue with and brought me to Rori and all of you.

    My mantra this year seems to be the “say no to want you don’t want so you can say yes to what you do want.”

    I have also been taking a good look at my feelings about men and some of the things they do.

    I was on a train recently and the conductor took my ticket, punched it, and as he handed it back to me, there was a piece of paper with his name and number with it. My friends have said things like, “wow, that’s never happened to me, you should feel flattered.” But I didn’t. I felt somehow startled and bothered by it.

  311.  #311Lola on January 20, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    I feel in a strange position with my man.

    I feel uneasy. A lot has happened recently and feel maybe he isn’t turning out to be the man for me.
    I am hoping to circular date (but haven’t started yet) and am already enjoying every interaction with every man that I come across.
    Had some great ones today.
    I used to kind of live with my boyfriend but it didn’t really work out due to him not being stepparent abled. But accept for here and there we have spent a lot of time together and we have been very close for 2 years.
    He refuses to really discuss the nature/status of our relationship right now and says we’ll just have to see… we had said after Christmas we would discuss what we will do (as in how often to see each other), but now he says lets just concentrate on what is positive eg my birthday that’s coming up. I feel that he obfuscates.

    I feel irked and confused.

    I feel unsure whether he should just be a date now, that I am spending too much energy on someone who cannot commit himself to talking about the relationship.

    This post sounds confusing, perhaps not that clear. Is it speech time or just dating (again) time.

  312.  #312Lisa on January 20, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    The ticket guy sounds a bit furtive, though he probably just didn’t want to risk being out of line in his job. He probably does this sort of thing many times a day, and gets the occasional taker. I am trying to find the right compassion balance with people.

    I think it must be hard to be a man and get a lot of rejection, but that is how it goes. In the movie “the Invention of Lying”, everyone’s thoughts are known, and the guy has to hear “She’s way out of your league” when he dates a pretty woman.

    I’d feel better about striking up a convo before getting his #.

  313.  #313Jessie on January 22, 2010 at 9:45 am

    I think telling everything means being authentic. I find talking about my feelings to a man extremely difficult–I was bullied alot by my family (dad) and pushed around emotionally, moved out of my home at 15 just for standing up to my dad (i wanted to get a job at a restaurant and he freaked out), so I find any kind of discussion of real genuine feelings like changing back into a 3 year old for some reason–I dont know if u can relate to this.

    So I clam up, avoid, keep the peace and never never really say what is on my mind….the hardest part about telling him is telling him also how lonely you are, how sad you are, how isolated you are and not just why you want to date someone else….most of the time I find that this would be enough to end a relationship….great reward for finally talking. So why not talk to your friends–girly friends, spend time with family, and find men that you can really talk to you before you give anyone the power to disprove of or not disprove of your life and your feelings….I bet that is really hard for you because I find it really hard also….finding girlfriends that are nice and fun takes alot of work –but forget the guys that are just time wasters…and have some fun without them!

  314.  #314Turtle Girl on January 22, 2010 at 2:26 pm


    This is PRICELESS! I absolutely love it! So are we all now “Man whisperers? Or in the initiation phase of being “Grand Man Whisperers”? How funny……I just ROFLMAO…..Thank you for this one.

    Turtle Girl

  315.  #315Simply Shannon on January 22, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    Thanks Turtle Girl for catching this (and commenting so it would show up in my email just now)!

    Daria: I love it! Yes, we are training these boys… one man at a time. Hehe!

  316.  #316julie on January 25, 2010 at 11:04 am

    hi, i think you might find additional help at an alanon meeting. it addresses being drawn or addicted or having in problems in our lives with loved ones who are addicts or even recovering addicts. it gets into perhaps the past maybe a parent that was an addict… great relief and tools– especially coupled with Rory’s advice 🙂

  317.  #317Rori Raye on January 25, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    Thank you, Julie. Love, Rori

  318.  #318Jo on January 26, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    Love your post Nancy, I’m struggling as well… but aren’t we all. Here’s my situation and if there’s any advice – I would be grateful.

    I started doing online dating 2 months ago and the third guy I met (by the way I wasn’t that keen, I only agreed to meet up to pass by time as I was looking forward to another date, although I knew we will have a good laugh). So this date of mine turned out to be an amazing guy and we clicked immediately.

    We’ve been dating for 2 months now. He just said his subscription is expiring, but by the looks of it he’s renewed it.

    Ever since the first date he’s initiating all communication, all dates (well in advance), he’s in touch every single day.
    On the third date I asked what he’s looking for and he replied FUN. He split up with his girlfriend of 4 years 2 months before joining the site. He’s profile says he;s looking for a “partner in crime”, a love of his life (that’s a description given by his friends) and his own words are – looking for someone who’s comfortable in their own skin, up for a good laugh and if the time seems right why not get away.

    He’s introduced me to a couple – his friends 2 weeks ago and said they really liked me. He also took me away for a weekend on a romantic trip.

    I’m very very fond of him and I know it’s only 2 months and I still arrange dates with other guys, but as all of us i feel the need of knowing if this is going anywhere. I have mixed feelings as he’s very loving with me, but at the same time still on the dating site (and keeps changing his area, i guess so that he appears in more searches…?)

    I’m trying not to get into the trap of imaginary relationship, but at the same time feeling a bit hurt if he’s doing the same with someone else.

    Love x