How to Keep From Investing in the First Date if You’re Long-Distance

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In this age of internet and long-distance dating – this letter from Vickie struck me as powerful:

“Hello Rori,
Your dating advice has been AWESOME–so awesome that I’ve met someone who has all of the qualities I look for in a man. And the wonderful thing is that I’ve used your Circular Dating technique to help myself from falling head-over-heals and falling into the “instant relationship” mode, which was my past behavior. He is actually doing the pursuing, and I’m just sitting back and letting him! I’m amazed at how relaxed and carefree I’ve been in our “getting-to-know-each other” phase of the relationship. Now, however, I need your advice.

I’ve been chatting with him online now for about a month. He lives about 1000 miles away, and we will be meeting face-to-face for the first time next month during my vacation. I have a few questions about his pending visit:

1. Should I offer him accommodations in my home if I feel secure enough to do so?
2. What activities should I plan for the two of us when he comes for the first visit?
3. Should I introduce him to my family members and friends yet? (Mom, brothers, best friend and her husband, etc.) I do know that we are on the same page in what we are looking for—a spouse. He’s made this clear to me several times.
4. And the big one: How long should he stay? This one is tricky for me because he will be flying in. It’s not like he can just jump in his car and leave if the two of us don’t hit it off at all! He’s even asked my advice about this. I avoided answering because I simply didn’t know how to answer him.

Any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated. This will be my first date in several years! He seems to be a really good guy–a keeper–so far; and I don’t want to blow this before we ever get a chance to really get to know each other.

Thanks so much, Vickie”

Here’s my answer:

Vickie – First – I’m so thrilled for you that this has happened, and that you’re seeing such a dramatic change from using my Tools…Now – this is going to be more challenging when you see him in person – IF you’re attracted to him.

So… STOP!!! You are running ahead on all burners, and you haven’t even MET this guy!!

Look at it this way: Nothing – absolutely nothing happens until you meet.

The chemistry has to be there for him (notice I say “him,” because chemistry can GROW for YOU – that’s how it’s supposed to work). And there’s no way to know what will happen in the first 5 minutes of your meeting.

So please stick with what you’re doing – Circular Dating (except when he’s here – he deserves your full attention if that’s what he wants – unless he’s also traveling on business or to see friends, as well as meeting you…) – and don’t become invested in this. Here’s some ways you can help yourself:

>>This is DATE # 1 – do not make more out of it than that, even though he flew to you.

>>PLAN NOTHING!!!! Eat when you feel like it, walk, talk – let HIM make the decisions about all this.

>>Do NOT entertain him, or FEEL like you need to entertain him. And if you catch or that you’re automatically starting to feel like you need to or want to or ARE entertaining him – stop yourself.

>>What you want to do is just BE with him.

>>If money isn’t an issue for him, he should stay in a hotel so he can run this experience the way HE wants to. Let him book the hotel, unless he asks you to do it for him. Don’t offer. Say you don’t know how to work this…but that you’re feeling staying separately – with him in a motel or hotel would feel best to start. If, after a couple of days he wants to stay in your home and it feels good to you (I assume you live alone) – that’s fine.

>>You know the fun places near where you live – so if he asks what you’d like to do – give him the information, and share what would feel best and most fun for you – not what you THINK would be a good idea.

>>If you’re getting along with him, and you like to cook, you can offer him a home-cooked dinner. Normally I would say NEVER DO THIS – but he’s flown all this way, so you have to give BACK something. I don’t want you taking him somewhere and paying, so cooking him dinner (and letting him help you shop if he likes, and help you in the kitchen) is a fine compromise.

>>Giving back is very different from feeling like you OWE him something. Accept the fact that he flew out and consider it the wonderful thing that you deserve.

>>You get to feel – and be – casual. The investment is NOT YOURS – it’s HIS – as it SHOULD BE!!! And I want you to be okay with that.
Share your feelings about all this – the pressure of having him fly so far and how to handle it. This will help take the pressure OFF.

>>Ask him what he thinks instead offering your own opinions. If he asks for your advice, you can say “I don’t know” – or share with him what would feel good to YOU.

>>Do not bring him to a family or friends gathering on purpose so they can meet him (like to a special dinner at your parent’s home). Anything else – a party with your friends, an invitation for a double or group date from curious friends or family – really feel how YOU feel about it – and don’t do anything that feels like some kind of obligation or test, or that might be stressful for either or you.

>>The idea is to let him run this thing. So, if something would feel like fun for you, and you’re SURE it’s not because you want to “move this relationship forward,” ask HIM what he’d like to do.

>>Now – all this is under the assumption that you LIKE him when you meet him. He may, after all, not be as advertised. He may look different, sound different, feel different, smell different than you imagine and than you like. So, handle that with grace – you owe him nothing.

>>So – about how long he stays.  This is a big experiment, an adventure with no rules.  So you’re going to have to make them up.  If you’re letting him run things, he’ll ask you.  You’ll talk.  You’ll share concerns.  If you’re having fun, he’ll stay longer. If he doesn’t think this is working for him, he may make an excuse and go home OR – and this is important to watch for – if you’re having sex, he might stay way too long just because it feels good to him, and he can just go home and that’ll be it.

>>You’ll have to be REALLY careful with your investment around sex. If you have sex – make sure it’s not allowing him to overstay if he has no real intentions toward you.  If you don’t have sex – you’re way safer, but it might not be as much fun. Be okay with whatever choice you make – there’s no way to know how you’ll feel until you feel whatever you feel.

>>If you’re not crazy about him, and you want him to leave, you’ll have to tell him this isn’t working for you, and you’d feel better cutting it short now.

>>This is just a first date with a lot more pressure.

Vickie, will you let us know how it goes? Perhaps I can incorporate what you’ve learned from this experience into a series of help for long-distance situations.

Love, Rori


  1.  #1Tina on February 27, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    It’s not a real relationship until you’ve met in person, face to face. How else will you know? Hell, it’s not even a relationship then, it’s only a first date. This reminds of “five day coffee date guy” I feel so glad that Rori is addressing this all to common reality, especially with internet dating. This almost feels like ‘ a guy I met while I was on vacation” except that Vicki doenst have to leave her house 🙂 . He may not be as advertised so dont invest to much “energy” this also sounds thrilling, I cant help be feel excited for Vicki. I would sooooo do it. An adventure for sure!

  2.  #2Vickie on February 27, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    Thank you so much, Rori, for your quick response. It’s Saturday, and you took the time to answer my letter! You are truly amazing! Most of what you said, I had not thought about, Rori; but it makes so much sense. I never thought about it in the terms of it being “HIS investment.” I thought only of showing him that “good ole southern hospitality” that is such a large part of my culture. But now that I think back, my “hospitality” and natural kindness hasn’t gotten me the man I deserve after all these years! LOL! I’m a take-charge person by nature, so I will remember that I must not take on this role in this situation.

    Rori, I’m one of those girls who cannot separate a sexual relationship from commitment, so I will certainly keep in mind what you said about that subject as well. So far, I’ve been open with him about my views/standards on sexual intimacy, and he still wants to visit me.

    I’m also not getting my hopes up too much for this visit, which I know might never even take place. One very important reason being that he has a very ill daughter (14yrs. old and lives with her mother), who’s been suffering with a congenital heart and lung defect since she was 3 mos. old, and she has been in and out of the hospital all her life. She is beyond cure and could pass away at any time; in the last few months, she’s been going downhill fast; she has already exceeded her life-expectancy for this type of illness by several years.

    Rori, rest assured that I do realize that a lot could happen between now and the next few weeks. He could change his mind and decide that he doesn’t want to pursue a long distance relationship after all; and if he does, Rori, I’m happy to say that I will be okay with that as well; of course, I will be a little disappointed that yet another one wasn’t the RIGHT ONE, but I will not be devastated. I have not allowed myself to become emotionally invested during this “pre-relationship” phase. And I have you to thank for that!

    Rori, I feel so empowered! My problem, though, lies in knowing how to proceed from this stage so that I don’t sabotage our chances by overstepping my role and becoming a pursuer, as I now realize (thanks to your e-book and newsletters) that I HAVE done in the past!

    Overall, I’ve had many disappointments with guys online, Rori. This one seems different from the others, though. He hasn’t given up (most usually have by now), and he calls nearly everyday–and ALWAYS calls when he says he’s going to. He’s very consistent. He is no longer on the site that we met on, but he knows that I still am. I’m continuing to Circular Date. I didn’t stop when he came along, Rori. In fact, at one point, I was in sort of a “pickle.” I had another guy planning to come see me at the same time that I had agreed for this one to visit because I wasn’t sure about either of them. I rescheduled the other one since I’m beginning to suspect that he is a bit flighty, both figuratively AND literally; every time I talk to him, he is about to travel here or there! I try to keep at least two or three guys in my life at all times, as you suggested. This tool most definitely works, Rori. I am so much more confident and laid-back now, and I don’t go into panic mode if I don’t hear from a guy for a couple of days! And I DO NOT CALL THEM if I don’t hear from them.

    Rori, again, thank you so much for your response. And I will definitely keep you posted on how things go. (Sorry for such a lo-n-n-n-n-ng response!)

    Warmest regards,

  3.  #3Vickie on February 27, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    Thank you, Tina. I’m definitely planning to follow through. I haven’t been on the dating scene for years because my relationships usually fizzed out before they were ever launched. I use the term “relationship” loosely, for lack of a better term. Yes, I am very grateful to Rori for advising me through this. I need all the help I can get! And I’m grateful to you, too, for taking time out to cheer me on!

    Cheers to YOU! and best Best Wishes, too!


  4.  #4Polli on February 27, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    This is my first post. Love this website….thanks Rori for all the things you are teaching us all. And I have learned alot from the other posters also. Thanks alot everyone.
    Here is my problem. I have become involved in a long distance relationship. I really care alot about him. I THINK he cares about me, but I am not 100% sure. I have gotten into an online/phone sexual relationship with him. This is not something I ever saw myself doing. But here I am. It is very hot, I find myself enjoying it as much as he does. I would like to have a future with him, but based on what I have read on this site not so sure I am going about it the best way. Sometimes he takes me for granted, which I hate. I lean back and he comes close again. Or maybe he is coming close because he wants sex. He is in the middle of a divorce and this is the only sex he is having (so he says). Anyway, should I stop doing this? Naturally I am afraid if i do he will dump me…..but in my heart I know if he does he would have eventually anyway. But on the other hand, I am having fun just as much as he is. We plan to meet after the divorce is final, in the fall. Any advice for me?

  5.  #5Rori Raye on February 28, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    Polli – you’re not going to like this advice. Don’t read if you don’t want to hear it. …There IS NO RELATIONSHIP HERE. No matter what it feels like to you, no matter what he says – You are the phone-sex girl – only you’re not even getting paid for it. If it’s fun, if he’s your for-free phone sex guy (talk about safe sex…), great – but (did you see the movie Valentine’s Day with Anne Hathaway’s way of making a living through fantasy phone sex?) you might as well go into that line of work – it’s very lucrative. You haven’t met him in person. Nothing happens until you meet him in person. What you do or don’t do now has absolutely no effect on the outcome. Sorry if this hurts – but I am here to tell you the truth so you can do right by yourself. Love, Rori

  6.  #6dorothea on February 28, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    someone please help me, i feel distraught and confused. one of my guys who i just slept with the other night loaned me his external harddrive so i could take all his music from him.

    and i imported all files. and there are sex pics on there with other girls from before me. and one of them is the girl who makes my coffee every morning at the local shop. i feel so furious and disgusted that he gave me his harddrive without taking those pics off first. now i have the great pleasure of removing the sex pics with other women from my computer.

    i want to call him and tell him i feel fucking not good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but he hasn’t even talked to me since the other night so who fucking cares! GRRRR i feel weepy.

  7.  #7teishla on February 28, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Dorothea, I am sorry that you had to see that. I know exactly how you feel. It happened to me. After watching the sex videos of him and another women, I felt traumatized. I couldn’t take the images out of my head no matter what. I am interested in reading what Rori has to say. Keep your head up. We are here if you need to talk.

    Take care..

  8.  #8dorothea on February 28, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    nevermind i talked to him and well it felt fucking stupid and humiliating and that’s that.

  9.  #9dorothea on February 28, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    thanks teishla for your response:) i think there is a message here. Well to be fair Daria thinks there is a message as she told me off-site. I love that girl’s wisdom! The message is that I feel guilty and unattractive for getting sad about things, but I really just need to hold my ground. It’s ok to feel sad. It’s ok if it makes him feel awkward. I’m not going to stop having feelings just cuz he might want me less. Being forced to see pictures of him with other women (with TWO other women..AT ONCE) is not fair.

    Right now as it stands I do not feel safe and secure and good about myself. After the other night of sleeping with him I felt very unsure of myself and insecure. Then he did not contact me all weekend and I felt even worse in this way. Now seeing these beautiful women … I feel disgusted and challenged. If he wants to reassure me and show me I have no reason to feel this, then fine, and if he succeeds, even better. But right now I feel like staying away from a situation that makes me feel unimportant, unsure, and insecure.

    I still feel interested in what Rori would have suggested for handling this situation.

  10.  #10teishla on February 28, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Dorothea, I felt the same way when I confronted him. I felt unattractive by looking at this beautiful women, so i know exactly how you feel. Btw, bc of this and other things my relationship went downhill fast. This was a year ago. I still think about it today and it makes me feel angry at the decision I didn’t make then. I strung it along and tried to deal with it for a year. finaly, In january i ask him to leave. better yet, i threw his a$$ out. I was never able to regain feeling good about myself after that. He didn’t try to hard either. I am curious, what did he say when you ask him about it? I can,t wait to hear what Rori has to say… 🙂

  11.  #11dorothea on February 28, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    he said those pics were from 2 months b4 we started dating again. And it turned out he was talking about DIFFERENT pics with a DIFFERENT girl. I guess he likes to take pics with his women. I did not bring myself to go look.

    So I was like I’m talking about pics with TWO girls in them. And he said oh that’s that woman I told you about when we met. Then he apologized that I found them and said he didn’t even think about it on the hard drive cuz it was such old news to him. I said I feel angry that I had to see that and that they were still on there when u gave me the harddrive. And he said he as sorry. I dunno. My gut was like “he doesn’t really give a shit, he doesn’t really give a shit.” Eventually I was like “i don’t know what else to say,” and he said the same thing. So I said OK and he said OK and i HUNG UP. the end.

  12.  #12teishla on February 28, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    Dorothea, Sorry you feel this way! They all say the same…Well, I am sure Rori has something for us. It will get better, I promise…

  13.  #13dorothea on February 28, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    Thank you teishla. I kind of regret sleeping with him. I slept with him over a year ago and it felt totally different because I did not have serious feelings for him. He ended up latching onto me so tightly when that was not what I wanted. This time feels scary and different. He was and still is only the 2nd man I’ve ever slept with, and I am feeling really shaky and not good.

  14.  #14Polli on February 28, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    Thanks Rori, for your answer. I know you are right. I just don’t know how to go about ending it.

  15.  #15Lori on February 28, 2010 at 4:15 pm


    You don’t have to end an imaginary relationship. That’s what Rori and the other women on here told me. I just became less and less available until it faded away. Just keep distancing yourself (and you don’t OWE him any explanation of you don’t feel comfortable giving him one, but if you do it’s a good chance to deliver a feeling message or power speech.) One of 2 things will happen: the relationship will either disappear into imagination land or he will step up and try to make it a REAL relationship.

    Just remember there are married men all over the world online right now telling women the same things he’s told you. I even had a man lie about having cancer before to try to get me into this type of relationship with him! PLEASE look out for yourself first. I agree with Rori, if you enjoy phone sex, then do it for fun or for a living. Just do not mistake this for a real relationship.

  16.  #16Polli on February 28, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    Thanks Lori…..I feel that I did all this totally wrong, but when I started up with him, I did not yet know about Rori……..and all the wisdom found here. Your advice was wonderful….and I am going to do it, because even though it is fun…..I feel terribly guilty about it. I know this is not a REAL relationship until and IF we meet. Thanks so much for what you said, it helps…….

  17.  #17dorothea on February 28, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    But just think, Polli – because it’s not even a real relationship, there’s nothing to lose if you start using the tools on him. What a fun experiment you deserve to see how the tools can transform relations with a man. What do you think girl?

    Anyway I feel good about you having fun on the phone with him. I feel good about you recognizing there are some icky feelings and I feel good about you owning them. You’re making me feel way good, thank you maam!

  18.  #18Polli on February 28, 2010 at 6:00 pm

    Wow Dorothea,
    How awesome!!!! I am going to do that very thing…….I have already seen by what little I have done of the tools, that it really does work…
    Thank you for making me feel better about things…..I know I need to love myself…..before he or anyone else ever can. I am going to work on that……..thanks so much…….

  19.  #19Lori on February 28, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    great advice Dorothea. I’m sorry about what you went through with the man and the pics on his hard drive. How did you meet him? Did you have any red flags from the beginning or did seeing the pics on the hard drive come totally unexpected?

  20.  #20dorothea on February 28, 2010 at 9:04 pm

    do you think the pics are a red flag? i just feel like it was careless. what’s in the past is in the past. i feel so effed up and mad over being forced to run into those photos tho. that is not cool 1 bit.

    i met him in translation class. we have a long history of me not wanting anything serious with him when he did. now i am melting to him and this crap happens.

    i feel so grateful for all the support i get here<3

  21.  #21Jess on February 28, 2010 at 9:07 pm

    Dear Rori

    Sometimes I wonder if you advice re the tools applies to women of all ages?

    I’m in my 50s, I come from a ethnic group that is very small and live in a country which is very small too – which means that there are hardly any suitable men around. The men in my community are mostly ‘dumb’ — they view women as possessions to own — I don’t subscribe to that. I also happen to be well-educated & “intelligent”, which again means my potential universe becomes even smaller.

    So my only choice has been online dating. I meet a nice man every 2-3 years on average. 10 years and nothing has materialised though. The men I meet that pass my first ‘test’ all live overseas. After reading on your site, I realise that the major mistake I make, like most women 🙂 is that I pursue 🙁 I don’t have the courage to lean back) and I get emotionally involved too soon AND I let the other party know that – some idioticity around, well this is the truth and let’s get it out and get on with it !

    Which brings me to the here and now. Currently I’m getting to know a guy who lives in the US, I live in Asia. He’s requirement was for an ‘intelligent” woman. His purported aim is marriage. We can talk on the phone for hours – but here’s the catch — because of the time difference, and because I am less available then he is — I am the one who messages him to fix a chat/phone call. We usually agree on my next availabe date – sometimes he asks me and sometimes I volunteer… more and mor I am the one who is volunteering. Then on the day itself, I message him and we agree on a time and talk (which of course is making me wonder if left alone, would he think of arranging a call with me or is it all very convenient cos right now there is no one else in his life? )

    Do you regard the above as pursuing on my part? If so then what is it that I can do better?

    I don’t feel attracted to him yet (I’m keeping myself in assessment mode deliberately, based on what I gathered from Rori’s posts) .. but i like him and consider him potential husband material, because so far he appears to have what is the most important criteria for me in a man — strong values and integrity (i’m being very left-brained). I feel that at my age, I don’t need the highs and drama of passionate love. I don’t need to have kids with a man (I have 2 kids in their early 20s). I am financially ok — I have my own home, a decent job. What do I want a man for — basically to share my life — do things with me, wake up in the morning with, even sex is a 50:50 need — I’ve live a celibate life for 10years (since my husband passed away). I know for a fact that I’m not sexually disinterested, but I can live without it too.

    So, Rori and all out there — pl do help me with this. This guy is intelligent. He is of the same culture as me. I am open to friends of all cultures and ethnicity — I’m mostly non-judgmental in these regards, but am more comfortable with a spouse of my own ethnicity.

    So here is a potential person ‘for the job’ so to speak. So the same rules apply? Can I keep assessing him and IF I feel that he qualifies, talk it out with him, or do I still need to create attraction?

    Appreciate any inputs, any questioning of fundamentals even, since we tend to get stuck in our own views & ideas.


  22.  #22Jess on February 28, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    Dear Rori

    I missed adding the following information –

    When we first got to know each other, this man (I’m 52 and he’s 58) wrote back to me after a 2-week pause and apologised that he had thought through things and didn’t want to pursue the contact anymore cos he didn’t think it was viable cos of us living in diff countries and one person having to move, jobs etc

    I replied to him and thanked him for letting me know and wished him the best. However he happened to be online at that point and started chatting. And I said something abt it being ok what he has said, but that considering our age and our stringent requirements (he had mentioned earlier that he had found it difficult to find someone suitable) should we not work a bit harder and think out-of-the-box and give things a chance and trust the universe a bit (I’m afraid I am that type — I do trust the universe to provide me with answers along the way for my ultimate good.. like finding your site !!). He agreed almost immediately and said ok.. let’s give it a shot… some ambivalence and synchronicity !

    The reason for my telling the above story is cos I have another question. I am the more optimistic of the 2. To me there are potential solutions to how we can make it work (assuming we want to make it work). He seems to appreciate that aspect of me. He is very rational and he seems to view my ‘spiritual’ orientation with a bit of curiousity and sometimes awe.

    So I’m not sure if I need to help him map out the practical viability of the situation, give him the possible solutions, before I lean back? I mean will he bother to pursue if in his heart he cannot see how this contact can be translated into reality? So do I do that… ie tell him very rationally how I think this can work technically so that he can be at peace with that and then consider if he is attracted to me?

    Thanks and sorry for typos.


  23.  #23Tina on February 28, 2010 at 11:15 pm

    Dorothea, check out the catagory “Porn and Your Man”

  24.  #24dorothea on February 28, 2010 at 11:44 pm

    thanks tina

  25.  #25Tina on March 1, 2010 at 12:37 am

    I have to have a feelings message talk about “Truck mans” collection *sigh. His porn folder is next to a folder of pics of me lol. I”m not sure what that is about like you Dorothea I stumbled upon in accidently. He was showing me photos of some of his artwork and while he was going through his “documents” I noticed his collection of porn, I said Oh, I noticed my photos are next to your porn collection, he said yeah, my friend gave them to me – the visitor – I guess he likes porn too. I said “Oh” and that was it, I still dont know how to feel about it though, just a porn collection? should I feel offended? should I feel disgusted? should I smash his computer? should I laugh it off silly man! His porn collection was way before he even knew me or how I would feel about it. So I have to ask myself do I care enough about my feelings or non feelings about his porn. Should it bother me? I suppose he wouldnt be watching/looking at his porn while I was there lol, at least for sure I know he hasnt. For myself , I dont mind porn, Iv’e watched some 🙂 for kicks hehe but not daily or even monthly just once in a blue moon.

    On the other hand Ive always associated men with porn collections with sexual devience of some sort, whether its a rapist/murderers, pedophile whatever. I always see when someone gets arrested for some sexual crimes against others, they seem to have a huge porn collection, whether its child porn whatever, I feel really frightened by that. His porn collection consists of about 4 movies lol, I cant remember but yeah lol. I told him, “I didnt know men share porn with each other lol. he said yeah well “visitor” used a memory stick to upload songs to his pc and threw in some porn. Oooooook.

    I dont know if by what you mean by “red flag” if this is what you associate porn with?

  26.  #26Tina on March 1, 2010 at 12:54 am

    Yeah, the icky side of porn, kinda grosses me out. So doesnt the icky side of animal testing on makeup or beauty products but I use them anyway. I dont really put much though in did they test this on a harmless bunny’s eyeballs so I can use this eyeliner? whats the difference? I dunno, I just hate this world sometimes. I do check my makeup from time to time, just to make sure peter cottontails eyes werent sacrificed for my vanity, same with porn I guess , there some good stuff out there lol. A good romance novel works just as well, I used to read them a lot , the last one I read was called “virgins of paradise” I passed it to my friend and she passed it around to all her friends, I never did get the book back lol.

  27.  #27Tina on March 1, 2010 at 1:06 am

    Oh Dorothea, I didnt know it was of him and other women, he’s “had” thats tough one, I say a big OUCH! Im so sorry too that you had to see it. There is a message there. For some reason I thought it was your average run of the mill porn. Iv’e had pics taken of me while I was with my husband, I dont know if he still keeps them around lol. I have one of him in a black and white film negative, I was experimenting with my Black and white photo class back then. I liked the image of him standing nude almost shadowy figure, behind a beaded curtain.

  28.  #28Tina on March 1, 2010 at 1:12 am

    I took some of him in black and white with a full hard on 🙂 I tried with 1 1/2 yr man, he is really handsome but for some reason not very photogenic.

  29.  #29Lori on March 1, 2010 at 4:53 am


    I meant red flag as in is he unable to let the women from his past go? You said he told you about this woman when you first met him-what did he tell you about her? In my experience a great number of men watch porn to some degree, whether they are admitting it to us or not. I get that straight from the horse’s mouth-I have alot of guy friends and that’s what they all admit to me. They say a man will flat out lie to a woman and swear they don’t watch their collection anymore when they are in a relationship, but the general rule is if they are keeping it, they are watching it.

    I personally don’t have a problem with it unless it becomes a problem such as not being able to stop, preferring it to real sex etc. My ex and I experimented with some pictures and videos and I found it very erotic to watch us together. I also wouldn’t have minded him looking at some stuff on the internet. I think that him saving pictures and videos of exes and women he’s had would have bothered me though. That to me is alot more personal than internet porn. I still have the stuff we did and it’s clear to me that saving it means I haven’t let him go entirely. I’m fairly certain he still has it as well and would bet money he still watches it on occasion. I do feel that if I completely committed myself to a new man or he completely committed himself to a new woman, we would both get rid of it.

    That being said, one of my guy friends says that once a man has been with a woman, he saves a little place in his heart for her. Even if she was psycho and he could never imagine wanting to be with her again. He says women have whole hearts and when they are done with a man they tend to push him out of it completely and make room for a new man. But men have hearts with various sized compartments. The biggest they out the woman they love in, but they still have little pockets here and there with memories of and feelings of (sexual if nothing else) other women they’ve been with. That’s why he says it’s so easy for a man to see a woman he broke up with 20 years ago and be able to jump right back into a relationship or at least bed with her if the timing and situation is right, whereas most women have to rebuild the relationship from the ground up.

    I don’t know if he’s on the money or not, but he is a man and he does have a masters in psychology, so I do tend to value his opinion. Plus, nearly every single ex of mine has tried to come back at some point-some many years later. My college ex found me on facebook and has been trying to rekindle things with me lately. He remembers every place we ever went on a date, I barely remember being with him at all. And he didn’t seem as into me back then as I was into him, and HE was the one who stopped seeing ME for another woman who he ended up marrying. I guess I was a stepping stone back then…..

  30.  #30dorothea on March 1, 2010 at 10:21 am

    Here is the latest update: My girl came over and I had a heart to heart with her about it. She made me feel so much better, and even helped me find my sense of humor about it. I felt better when she left

    so I texted him and said “I feel a little better now. maybe you can get me this music some other way?”

    and he offered to put it on my computer for me from the harddrive, and i said “thanks. how about we get this external hard drive out of my face and figure something else out? that would feel much better. what do you think?”

    he said “ok that works for me” and I said “haha it better.”

    He said “It certainly does. I’ll come grab it from you tomorrow.”

    When we have the chance to talk in person I am going to tell him my feelings. That I have been feeling unsure and off balance since the other night, and that stumbling across his pictures feels like terrible timing for how I have been feeling, and I don’t want to compare myself to them but I feel like it’s natural to do that, and now I’m feeling sad and afraid to continue with him, because before I felt like a goddess to him which got me feeling attracted to him and open to giving him a chance, but now I am feeling small and I don’t want to feel that way. Then I will ask him what does he think.

    I feel good. I’m going to be fine whether or not I can feel good with him specifically. This experience is new and I feel grateful to be 25 and just barely having it for the first time. Hehe.

    Love u!

  31.  #31Lucy on March 1, 2010 at 11:27 am

    Dorothea — I like your ideas for your feelings talk. Your feelings are VERY important and I hope you continue to FEEL them, ALLOW them, and don’t reject or suppress them.

    I feel good about the way you handled this so far.


  32.  #32sia on March 1, 2010 at 11:40 am

    Dorothea, great!

    my take: don’t tell him you feel bad about yourself compared to someone. Men always complain about how they see women as beautiful, but the women keep saying; oh my bum is too big , too big, too big, too big – until the man is tired and bored of it and stops trying to convince them that to him it is beautiful.

    Slip back into feeling like a goddess – whinging about how other women look better than you is not goddessy – so what if his previous sex girls are even milliontimes as good looking as average women! They don’t know what we know here from rori – that is what will make you attractive to him.

    So share you were feeling unsure, but don’t go into details.

    Now when you are saying you had a laugh about the situation, I can admit, to me it was a bit funny from the start. poor guy, he wants to give you something, probably feels good that he can please you, he brings his hard drive – and he screws up like this, monumentally!! It feels like something from Seinfeld.

    Obviously those girls are completely off his mind, otherwise he wouldn’t have forgotten they are there.
    Unless he is a secret sadist:)

  33.  #33tinque on March 1, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Dorothea and others – It doesn’t matter at all what you look like. If a man feels safe with you, that’s all there is.
    When he loves you, all he sees is the woman he adores, every little bit of you, even the bits you don’t like so much, for he sees all of you, body, mind, heart, and soul, not this pimple or that bit of cellulite or whatever.
    If he loves you, other women he finds attractive only fuels the fires of his lust for you.
    Tina suggested reading Porn and Your Man. I wrote that piece. I’ve written extensively on this topic. Recently I wrote a very in depth piece. Let me know if you want more info. Feel free to ask me if you have any questions, concerns.

  34.  #34Orna Walters on March 1, 2010 at 12:58 pm


    Thank you for sharing EVERYTHING! I think this is so important to discuss because most men do look at Porn. Particularly now with the internet it is so readily available and FREE!

    Many men take photos/videos with women they have been with. I agree with Sia, that he didn’t even remember they were on that hard drive.

    Happy to hear you laughing about the situation. Humor is so important. This is a great opportunity for you to really get closer to him.

    Often times our BEST Opportunities to increase our level of intimacy comes from what appears to be misfortune. Stick with feeling messages and see how he responds to you and be in the moment.

    Big Hug,

  35.  #35Lucy on March 1, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    I have been wondering how exactly this is done — do they set up a camera on a tripod and use a remote control to take pics? It would seem like a lot of people would not have that kind of equipment — and it seems to me that it is kind of hard to take pics with a cell phone when you are involved in the action — both from the standpoint of being “busy” and also being not far enough away.

    I feel curious. 🙂

  36.  #36Tina on March 1, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    Cut and paste. I feel my urge to do something with Dorotheas accidental discovery of her mans porn hehe. ok stop it! STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

  37.  #37Simply Shannon on March 1, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    Subscribing. I miss ya’ll!

  38.  #38Tina on March 1, 2010 at 1:44 pm


  39.  #39Orna Walters on March 1, 2010 at 1:45 pm


    Never done it myself, but as I make videos for my biz I’ll share that a tripod is a few bucks and even my Cannon point-n-shoot has video capability and a timer.

    I have no judgment of women who CHOOSE to be in photos/video with their man… I simply never felt comfortable doing it myself.

    Its all about your individual comfort level, which is why it is so important to be in touch with and express your FEELINGS – always.

    If you want to see the latest video Matthew and I made about creating and celebrating intimacy you can watch it here:

    Shot this on our little Cannon SD980.


  40.  #40Tina on March 1, 2010 at 1:46 pm


  41.  #41Tina on March 1, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    The Universe just called me a basking nut lol

  42.  #42Lucy on March 1, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    Thanks, Orna, that was so cute! It was great to see you and your hubby together like that!

    I feel curious about why you never felt comfortable doing the other thing — do you have specific reasons/thoughts about it, or is it just feelings that are undefined? (If you don’t feel comfortable sharing, I won’t feel bad.)

    I have never done it, either, but a CD guy and I have talked about it a little, so I feel curious about the whole subject.

  43.  #43Orna Walters on March 1, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Thanks, Lucy! We had fun making the video and will be making more. I think the next one will be Communication Tips – particularly when emotions are heated – like during a disagreement.

    Ummm…why not?… well, in my past there was one bf who literally begged me, and I held my ground. I don’t believe I felt safe with him. For one thing, I don’t think it would be very sexy to watch. I guess I didn’t want to do it because I wouldn’t want to watch it! LOL!

    I can also be very critical of myself and I do my best to treat myself in such a way that I’m not in the position to be critical…particularly about my appearance.

    I’ll be honest, I’ll watch porn although I prefer to watch Tantra. I think its fun and can be inspirational. I just don’t want to watch me.

    I hope that is insightful. Once again, its all about being TRUE to ourselves. I’m comfortable doing a lot of things, and I know my limits. 😉

    Big Hug,

  44.  #44dorothea on March 1, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    I did talk to him today. I was sooo open with him, and I felt supported and heard. I told him my truth, I didn’t hold back, and I feel great about it.

    I shall be circular dating still, of course:D

    Love the support I get here. Love it. Love it. Love it. Wish I could bake you women cookies. With pot in them. Yeah THAT’S LOVE hehe.

    I cracked up thinking about putting marge simpson in his pics. LOL. i gave him the hard drive back. he is going to get me the music a different way.

  45.  #45Daria on March 1, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    Orna –

    I feel a little sad reading that you are critical of yourself and your appearance. I think there is room for growth here so you feel thrilled seeing yourself?

    Also – you have NO limits dear Goddess – only choices, sometimes we do uncomfortable things (like lean back, love ourselves) to grow to that what we want. And i do want you to hear you say:

    “I’m no longer critical of myself, but I was in the past. ”

    Yes I believe it’s possible. I feel resistance from over here! Hi Resistance! Love you too!



  46.  #46Lucy on March 1, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    SO glad you followed through with fully expressing your feelings, Dorothea! And happy that you felt heard and supported by him! Yay!

  47.  #47Lucy on March 1, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    Orna, thanks so much for sharing so freely your vulnerable feelings! xo

    I might feel good about trying it — with the right man. If I don’t like the results, we can always delete it, right?! 🙂

  48.  #48Orna Walters on March 1, 2010 at 5:07 pm



    “I think there is room for growth here so you feel thrilled seeing yourself?” – Exactly why I wrote that post in that way. There is ALWAYS room for growth. I wholeheartedly believe that if we’re not growing we’re dying.

    Don’t be sad, Daria. I’m thrilled with my life! I catch that critical NV most of the time before the thought is even finished! 🙂 I’ve come a long, looong way! Always more to do… I am a work in progress and I am okay with that. I’m okay seeing where I fall short and being kind with myself so I can simply honor ALL of me, and LOVE all of me – the good the bad and the ugly. Its all there. I am perfectly imperfect and I live a life that I LOVE!

    I’d also like to point out that I answered Lucy’s question from where I was at that time. When it had come up in my life. So perhaps, Lovely Goddess Daria, you could sense that in my reply. I’ve evolved a lot since that time. Big Hug to You! You are truly an Angel.

    Yes, Lucy – that is why God invented the DELETE button. 😉

    Big Hug,

  49.  #49Orna Walters on March 1, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    BRAVA! Dorothea! I am thrilled for you that you expressed yourself and felt heard!

    Celebrate with Yourself! Do something really lovely for You! A bubble bath? Ice cream? A mani/pedi? Something just for You that makes you feel good about yourself.

    Big Hug,

  50.  #50Paula on March 2, 2010 at 11:10 am

    Hi Sirens,

    I thought I’d share my experience of meeting a long distance internet dating guy.

    We were emailing for a month and he was really ‘in there’ – telling him that he loved me already in many daily emails. He suggested that he come and visit me (I was not going to fly to him) – he lives in another country and doesn’t speak english. I am not fluent in his language so it makes communicating in feeling messages difficult but I AM quieter.

    He came to visit for 4 days and stayed with me. I was a little nervous (as were my friends), but I trusted my instincts that he would be decent. There was no instant attraction on my side, but I remembered Roris advice that attraction can grow.

    We had a nice time. He did all the cooking and we walked and watched films. I was apprehensive because I had lied about my age on the dating site (I’m 5 years older than him). On his last day, I told him the truth and he was visibly shocked.

    I noticed him pulling back in emails after that. However, I had some holidays coming up and we had talked about me going to see him. He thought it would be a good idea as we could get to know each other better.

    So I went (for too long really but he lives in a beautiful place). I’m not really attracted to his lifestyle. He doesn’t work full time as he has had cancer and is being paid by his employer because he is sick (but really because he has been depressed, as I found out). I felt surprised by his lifestyle. He stays in bed a lot and stays up all night writing (he has published some short stories and a novel). He eats compulsively and doesn’t take any exercise. I took care of myself by walking, eating well, sleeping on my schedule and talking to him about my feelings now and then and being vulnerable.

    He has been through a messy divorce and he says his ex wife was very demanding. She never did any housework or cooked or helped him in any way during their marriage – and she left when he became ill. I did try not to caretake him but I did the dishes when he cooked – I felt good about our ‘buzz’ in the kitchen. It was fun! I met his lovely 9 year old daughter and we had a good time. He says I made a big impression on her,

    I wasn’t falling in love with him but I did feel upset when I felt him pulling back towards the end of my visit. He was much less affectionate. I told him that I was feeling sad and we had a good talk. He said that he was not falling in love with me, that he was upset about my lie about my age on the dating site. But he liked the moments that we spent together, sweet, tender, funny. This is the speech that I’ve been getting from men all my life. They love being with me but they are not ‘in love’ with me.

    Since then, emails have become fewer and fewer. I imagine we are finishing. I don’t initiate contact. (he says that when I pull back, it just creates a huge chasm between us). But, I’m keeping him around to practice tools and see if I can turn this around for me. It sounds mean but I feel angry too!

    He told me he would not date or look for another woman while he was with me but I know he has been searching online.

    The nice thing about this experience is that I’m not beating myself up. I didn’t do anything wrong.. I like me even If I don’t always do all the things a siren would do.

    Sorry this is so long.

    Love to all

  51.  #51Daria on March 2, 2010 at 11:22 am

    Paula –

    it sounds like you have some work to do on yourself and feeling good about being authentic. Please don’t do any LYING.

    Practicing with him is what is supposed to be going on, so your are right on with that, and you can work on embracing your guilt about it

  52.  #52Paula on March 2, 2010 at 11:26 am

    I feel judged Daria by your comment

    “it sounds like you have some work to do on yourself and feeling good about being authentic”

    and it doesn’t feel good.

  53.  #53Daria on March 2, 2010 at 11:47 am

    Paula –

    I do feel judgemental towards you about lying on your profile about your age.

    Hmm… I feel glad you’re here and I feel glad to hear your feelings!

    ESPECIALLY that you feel judged and not feeling good by my comment. I am “tweaking” on giving good love not just tough love.

    Your expressing yourself authentically I feel is helping me tweak this.

    Ok I KNOW I can try in girl voice – I was in boy voice !

    Paula – I feel shocked and judgemental reading that you lied on your profile. I feel really concerned about you and your level of self esteem. Hugs! It feels bad to think that you would want to or think it’s better to lie about your age. you are a GODDESS. All of the real you is beautiful, honorable, attractive and lovely!

    I would feel happy to hear you unravel what led you to do that and heal it.

  54.  #54Paula on March 2, 2010 at 12:00 pm


    I stopped posting on this blog because I felt offended by many of your posts. I tried not to read too many of them.

    Your post this time, does not feel authentic to me. e.g Hugs.

    I intend to stop posting on this blog again and find somewhere safer to express myself. I certainly do not want to read your ‘love’ –

  55.  #55Daria on March 2, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Paula –

    I feel amused which is probably a defense for me. Actually I feel angry.

  56.  #56Daria on March 2, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    I do feel concerned about your self esteem. I was sending you hugs. still you’re a Goddess and your feelings are beautiful.

    maybe you thought my hugs words were inauthentic because you felt angry at me – I dont know here…

    And i feel angry and rejected – I feel cold and uncaring – I feel disconnecting and disconnected – I feel majorly triggered

    I feel like attacking.

    you’re have a right to find somewhere where you feel safe. In this moment I would feel safer with you not here as well….

    I don’t like feeling attacked and told that people felt offended by my self-expression… and now I myself don’t feel safe

    I’m here to grow from my triggers, so although safety is important to me, having what I want and healing and growing is even more important

    I would feel good to have Rori say something about safety and attacking.

  57.  #57Polli on March 2, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Please don’t leave…..we need you and you need us and we all need Rori!!!!
    I don’t don’t always agree with everything I read here, but I sure have learned alot…….it would be such a shame if you missed out on what you could find here that would be of help to you….and a shame if we would miss out on what you can teach us. Like they say in 12 step programs, take what you want and leave the rest……sounds selfish, but if we are to learn to love ourselves we have to have that mindset now. Please consider staying…..

  58.  #58Daria on March 2, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Paula I also don’t want you to leave

  59.  #59dorothea on March 2, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    UH Paula I do not like the way you are talking about Daria’s posts and judging her desire to be authentic when you couldn’t even tell the truth to that man, and are suddenly full of opinions about other people when someone points this out to you.

    Yeah I know there ain’t feeling messages in this side of me just got super duper triggered.

    Paula I don’t want you to leave and I don’t want you to talk shit about another person’s posts. Paula, even though I am feeling angry and defensive I still would like you to stay, and practice getting through anger and defensiveness with us.

  60.  #60Simply Shannon on March 2, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    Daria: I saw where you asked Orna about this post and I felt curious what was happening. It sounds like you triggered Paula with your original masculine post. I liked what you said when you switched to feminine. If I was Paula, I might be feeling defensive because of what’s going on with this guy and I’m just looking for a target to blame and unload on. Unfortunately you happened to stand up at the wrong time and paint a target on your chest. Ya know?

    Paula: I feel disappointed and turned off by men when they lie about anything on their profile (old pics, age, or marital status). Maybe your guy felt the same way? It feels better to be honest so that no one feels deceived. I love all of me, my age, my weight, my height, my personality, all of it. And I want to be with someone who feels the same about themselves. I feel curious to know your reasons for hiding your age. If I feel the need to hide something, it says I feel bad about XYZ. And it would signal that I feel comfortable hiding things, i.e. lying. Lying is a deal breaker for me.

  61.  #61Simply Shannon on March 2, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    Paula: I ask about the age thing because I sense there is something in you that is triggered by your age. He may have looked surprised when you told him the truth but I’d be willing to bet it was the lie itself and not your age that surprised him. Does that make sense?

  62.  #62Daria on March 2, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    Shannon –

    Thank you for what you see.

    Dear Universe,

    I don’t feel good when people unload their stuff on my “target.” I feel angry and defensive and NO, its NOT OK to dump on me.

    I feel glad for the opportunity to practice honesty rather than cater to someone else’s feelings ahead of my own.

    I am now interested in taking care of my feelings while also feeling compassionate for the other person.

    Right on.

    Thank you,


  63.  #63Daria on March 2, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    I don’t like the image of me having to choose between beinga powerful rock all alone or being quiet.

    I want to feel HEARD and HONORED.

    I feel attacked just saying that, because I hear the NV;s … who does she think she is, she wants to be honored.

    I run this! And I love you too NV’s. Thank you for wanting to protect me. — good example right there of honoring my feelings and compassion.

    Thank you Universe

  64.  #64Simply Shannon on March 2, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    Daria: I do want to challenge you here a bit. If I knew someone was hurting and looking to blame someone else, I might feel compassion towards them rather than anger. Or at the very least, I might not feel so much anger because I know it’s not really about me or really directed at me.

    To be honest, Paula’s comment felt right based on what you said. I could see how I might feel triggered by it as well, especially if I’m already feeling crappy.

    Just an observation that sometimes people get triggered and lash out. Maybe we don’t have to stay in anger. Or maybe it’s about not going into attack mode. Tweaking that view to realize it’s not about us and/or stopping the communication because it doesn’t feel good to be angry and attack.

    I feel confused how to express this to you.


  65.  #65Daria on March 2, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    Shannon –

    Thanks. Yes thanks. Mmm. ok. Thank you for your thoughts.

    I don’t feel ok with stuffing my feelings justified that I know someone else is hurting.

    I feel confused…

    Am I “supposed to” feel compassion rather than anger when I feel attacked by someone hurting? I feel unsure…

    In the past I would have said oh ok. They’re feeling upset so that’s ok. And maybe a part of me would have felt not cared for.

    I don’t want that.

    Why is it “ok” for me to be attacked? Am I “strong enough to take it”?

    Well I don’t want to take it…

    I stand up for the parts of me that say it’s not ok for me to be attacked…

    I feel defensive and triggered…

    I didn’t see as Paula as hurting and especially looking to blame someone else.

    I saw her as a Goddess posting on Rori’s blog.

    I also feel defensive about which of her comments felt “right” – the comment about her feeling judged felt good to me, and I said thank you for it…

    the comment after that felt like an attack and it felt bad to me

    It’s not OK to attack Daria. Daria is not going to say it’s ok to attack her. Yes everyone has a right to attack Daria, or do whatever they want, but I DO NOT FEEL GOOD ABOUT IT. I do not Like it.

    I do NOT want to say my feelings are less important than someone else’s or that I “should” feel more compassionate than angry.

  66.  #66Tina on March 2, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    I dont get what was so upsetting for Paula. I dont get why Paula lashed out at Daria for any or all of Daria’s advice? Paula said she had a “talk” with her visitor about her true age, I dont get why she lied in the first place. I dont see a five year age diff a big deal. I dont get why Paula is wondering why her man is withdrawing? or not accepting of her lie. *Bangs head against the wall*

  67.  #67Tina on March 2, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    I’m going back to “review”. I’m not sure if I feel triggered or I should just mind my own business here.

  68.  #68Orna Walters on March 2, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    What we have here is an EXCELLENT opportunity to look at our OWN stuff and see how we may trigger someone else and how we take responsibility for own emotions.

    Daria and Paula please see this as the great opportunity that it is.

    My husband always says, “If someone has a problem with you, its their problem. If you have a problem with someone, then it is your problem.”

    What is great here is each of you can look at how you behave when someone you are CLOSE with triggers you. This happens in relationship all the time. What are your patterns? What would you like to change in Your behavior so You feel GOOD about You?

    Daria: You had a fantastic insight – what to do when you feel angry, and the other person is hurt?

    Feel your anger, and express it, then be open to hear where the other person is at and often times if you have a solution to present, that is good too. I know Rori’s format is a bit different, here is mine:

    I feel ___________.
    When you ______________.
    Can we please _____________.

    Please practice this format with one another – right here! Its a great space to explore and grow.

    Paula, I truly hope you can state your feelings here and STAY with US. There is a HUGE GIFT for you here to receive.

    Big Hug,

  69.  #69Orna Walters on March 2, 2010 at 7:35 pm

    Oh, one thing I’d like to point out. When BOTH people are AUTHENTIC and speak how they authentically feel MAGIC happens! You do not need to AGREE, if you are both authentic that is all that needs to happen to reach a place of true Intimacy and it really feels BLISSFUL!

  70.  #70Tina on March 2, 2010 at 7:41 pm

    Did you know a double big mac has 380 calories? Anyway I still dont get it. My trigger is not her trigger. I personally would have thanked Daria and her “compassion” compassion enough to at least respond to my post. I liked Darias’ “masculine voice” her feminine voice feels ouchy yeah ouchy, I feel ok with ouchy. It’s not even my situation and I feel like beating myself up lol.

  71.  #71Tina on March 2, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    Not beating myself but I feel guilt 🙁

  72.  #72Orna Walters on March 2, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    Tina, some people have “Guilt” as their Life Lesson. I am one of those people. 🙂

    I have a very sensitive “guilt alarm” and it goes off all the time. The antidote is to VALUE yourself more!

    Really VALUE YOU and pay super close attention to What You Say to Yourself About Yourself. Change all the negative statements to positive ones (this is a process).

    Treat yourself like you would treat your best friend. If you’d tell your friend she doesn’t have to feel guilty about X, then you don’t have to either!

    Big Hug,

  73.  #73Tina on March 2, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    ok, the only thing that triggered me was when Daria says, I feel shocked and judgemental about you lying on your profile. I feel like I did something really bad but after that is was all good stuff.

  74.  #74Tina on March 2, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    Paula feel offended by pretty much everything Daria has posted so it’s no wonder she is offended again by Daria’s comment to her personal story.

  75.  #75Rori Raye on March 2, 2010 at 8:35 pm

    Paula, I want to smooth out all this with you, I know you’ve triggered so many comments, and hope you’ll come back and take a chance we’ll all be supportive – and I really want to make sure, because we have so many actual coaches here now and so many voices with opinions other than mine (I get to have them, so I want to be responsible that all opinions are moderated…). The rule about no masculine voices is for several reasons – so that we’re all (except for me, of course, I get the exception here!) PRACTICING being in the feminine, and, yes, so we all feel safe (I’m as bummed by a negative comment as anyone, and I’ve had to learn to deal with it in myself over the last years…) – but mostly because opinions are just not all that helpful when they’re not backed up by the personal story. Letting someone know you’ve been there, or you are there, and this is what you’ve done and this is what you feel, and this is what you’ve learned that works for you is SO much more powerful than an opinion based on what you think or a reaction you’re having. And the same is true out there with a man. What we’re doing here – and this is even more important than safety – is practicing love and power. So – if someone goes negative or opinionated, and we get triggered – let’s please work through it…email me personally if I miss getting in here to help work things out. If we can’t do it here, we sure can’t do it out there with a man. Love is NOT for the squeamish. Anger is it at the bottom of almost all our problems, when we combine it with our trained need to be nice and liked. Some of us get swallowed up in “nice” (the way Tenley did on the Bachelor), and some of us push the other way and close down and get mean (like Ali did and Vienna started out doing – until she found herself, and she really did…), and the best thing is to become aware of how we are and shift that slowly into what works better and feels better and feels more powerful and gets us more love. If you’ve been triggered to anger – good for you – and let’s see a bit of how we can work with it…Paula, for what it’s worth from me…I tell women to lower their age in the official part, and then tell the truth in the profile – this way you show up in the “sort” men do by age…but you’re not feeling like you’re lying, either. I’m personally a bit buffaloed by the age thing, myself. I almost feel it’s no one’s business – but in dating – truth is all, and age is something, if he wants to know, you have to tell the truth. And…I don’t think this was about age. Falling for someone is mysterious. There’s no way to make it happen or quantify it if he’s not already part of the way there. You can help him fall, you can set the stage, you can create the space he falls into – but if who you are right now is not who sets him emotionally and physically afire – he’s not for you. I don’t think you did anything wrong…and I’m sorry you didn’t get the results you want. Love, Rori

  76.  #76Tina on March 2, 2010 at 9:10 pm

    Orna, I’m not sure if your saying absolve myself of all guilt or not.

    If my best friend came to me and said “I lied about my age in my profile” or I lied about my body type in my profile, my first reaction and probibly would come out of my mouth is “you dummy why’d you do that?, I would laugh with her about it and try to find out her reasoning which could be quite entertaining for me. If she said she lied about her weight then I would say well why’d you do that? what is the average weight for your height etc. have you weighed yourself lately then I would say well , your weight is not saying your “average” or whatever, sooooooooooooo? I would go so far as show her a bmi index then take it from there and then wait to be called mean!

  77.  #77Tina on March 2, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    I have a guilt alarm, if someone is missing something and is asking where it is, if I am in the area , I tend to feel guilty for no reason, like if I dont make an effort or something to help find missing object then I “look” guilty so therefore I am. or they look at me the “wrong way” hehe, I feel guilty , like I stole the object or whatever.

  78.  #78Tina on March 2, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    This feeling I have guilt has also given me the ability to find objects or die trying. It’s also given me a “sixth sense’ about things.

  79.  #79Tina on March 2, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    I had ‘average” in on my profile, men said I was athletic and when I said I was 43 they thought I was younger. I guess you cant win.

  80.  #80Tina on March 2, 2010 at 9:48 pm

    So it was easy for my ex to “make me feel guilty” about the car insurance money, when it would go insufficent funds when all the while he was shoving it up his nose grrrrrrr. I would feel for having to ask, then he would fly into a rage and be all “hurt” that I would accuse him of such a thing as taking it out of our account. It’s easy for anyone to “make” me feel guilt grrrrrrrrr.

  81.  #81Daria on March 2, 2010 at 11:18 pm

    I feel triggered… grr…

    I feel lost and left out that Rori didn’t address me about this…

    I feel guilty for looking like “the strong one” wtf I feel furious

    I feel unworthy to feel furious

    I fele triggered

    is it “ok” to tell someone I feel judgemental towards you? – I have been practicing being very honest and have started saying that to men when I feel it…

    I feel lost…

    I feel unsure of myself and floundering around for approval…

    this feels sucky in my tummy

    I feel like I look like the “bad sister” and my little sister is getting love and attention from my mom because I hit her… but I was tryna HELP her and I feel misunderstood and left out… and I feel judgining of myself like suck it up youre the big sister

    wat the hell i dont even have a sister…

    I feel bent over and weak

    I feel judgemental towards you — that could be like I feel weird… I feel concerned… hmm…

  82.  #82Daria on March 2, 2010 at 11:41 pm

    I feel triggered — I feel judgemental to myself — my nv says im whining for attention… boo hoo this feels bad… i feel triggered… i feel unworthy

  83.  #83Daria on March 2, 2010 at 11:49 pm

    I feel like i just got outgirled… wtf…
    i feel like my man is protecting another woman… lol…
    oh look at her she needs help you dont need help or attention, you’re a cactus… grrr

    i feel sad and triggered i love my feelings of hopelessness and unworthyness

  84.  #84Tina on March 3, 2010 at 12:07 am

    Daria, I feel bad too. I feel bad that your looking like the bady here and not the goodie. I feel proud of you at you have “backbone” but that doesnt mean you have to push a man’s car when it stalls 🙂

  85.  #85Tina on March 3, 2010 at 12:24 am

    I truely believe you were not feeling malicious or wrong. I hesitate to give advice or feelings messages for fear of this very thing, of feeling attacked. Sometimes I feel like saying “wake up and smell the freakin coffee!” Thats why Rori does what she does and so does Orna 🙂 The only thing I question Rori about is why she would say to lie on the official part of your profile then tell the truth later, I just dont get it. I’m going to bury my head in the turtle tank for now.

  86.  #86Paula on March 3, 2010 at 12:42 am

    Thanks Rori and the other sirens for your support. I’m just awake and I need to go to work.

    I felt really bad about getting angry with Daria. I feel triggered when I feel criticised (and Daria and Dorotheas response felt like that to me). I was criticised a lot when I was growing up so it’s a ‘hot’ point for me.

    I like sharing here but I do feel afraid of criticism, strong opinions on my personal story. That happens a lot on this blog and I feel nervous and scared about sharing. Sometimes I just want to write what’s going on for me and I can get clarity for myself that way. I’m not really looking for advice. I am more interested in hearing others experiences and feelings than their comments on what I should do or should have done or etc… That’s how I learn here.

    I’m not worried about my lie. I talked to him about it and told him that I had created my profile years ago with that age because I wasn’t getting any response when I put my true age. He said that he wasn’t worried about my age but about the lie. I apologised and said that in all honesty, I was glad about it because he wouldn’t have written to me otherwise. We had a nice experience together. I’ve learnt that I will tell someone soon about my age next time.

    Ok. got to go to work. I feel a little better.

  87.  #87Daria on March 3, 2010 at 12:54 am

    ok IM reframing myself now that i am the goodie and everyone is the goodie and Paula LOVES My posts as do I love hers. And this FEAR thingy is actually a signal of the amazing GOOD that is up right now. And that lying about age is quite adorable…

    well wow its working.. it IS rather endearing…

    thank you Janette Maw at goodvibe coach for reminding me that i decide what i believe

  88.  #88Daria on March 3, 2010 at 12:57 am

    WHOA – talk about magic! I just wrote that not looking and then ALL OF A SUDDEN theres a post from paula saying she feels bad she got angry with me! WHOA

    I feel floored!! like my reimagining WORKED. this is incredible…

  89.  #89Daria on March 3, 2010 at 1:02 am

    Paula thank you. I really hear you. I feel major triggered feeling criticized too and also I do feel triggered when people tell me what to do and not do too..

    and i feel guilty that i did that to you…. I commit that I will not give advice to you unless you are asking…

    I feel so GLAD to read your comment…

    omgosh i feel relieved like my shoulders just sighed and relaxed… like the window swung open and fresh air came in!

    I feel happyyyyieee… i feel like I ran a marathon


  90.  #90sia on March 3, 2010 at 6:45 am

    dear daria

    this was all so interesting.
    I would like to ask you for clarification on something. First:

    I feel a bit scared that when i post anything to you, and don’t walk on eggshells, I will get: ‘I feel attacked’ response – which will make me feel like i am accused of being an attacker – which will feel unfair because my heart knows I was not attacking, just trying to help, even though badly. I would feel so sad that I didn’t get the recognition for Trying – instead I got Judgement for result.

    I had a feeling from your exchange with Paula, that this not walking on eggshells got you the judgement from her, and closed her ears temporarily to supportive things you said – what do you think?

    So I would be interested in your feelings on this:

    Remember the first heated exchange we had with Lisa and Soignee, was about using swearwords. We all felt bad reading them. Your response was, heal that feeling – swearwords are beautiful.

    So what do you think – if swearwords trigger can be healed, cannot also trigger set off by criticism or hearing:do and don’t, be healed as well? Like, the trigger of feeling of being attacked is healed, and would be replaced by appreciation?

    I know I would need to travel long way before I would find appreciation for swearwords – but I actually feel I am a bit closer, after what you said about them.

  91.  #91dorothea on March 3, 2010 at 7:42 am

    This feels so strange to me and bizarre because in my eyes Daria is like the ONE poster I see as not needing to walk on egg shells around.

    But I think I REALLY relate to Daria in general. So I know this about her – that there are no eggshells on the floor and walking on eggshells will just cause the very problems you’re hoping to avoid. And stomping all over them out of resentment for the fact that she is different from you isn’t exactly a good way to avoid problems either. I could go on about this but I’m stopping there.

    I feel defensive of Daria because it feels like when the women here don’t like where she’s coming from, they don’t like people like ME with worldviews like mine and experiences like mine. I feel defensive that you women think we are lowlifes because we don’t meticulously censor ourselves. I remember when soignee compared Daria to a drunk on the street and I thought about growing up in the ghetto and not really worrying about talking to drunks on the street. It just is what it is.

    I am what I am. Most of you probably don’t understand the place I come from and the things I’ve been through. Or maybe you have, and if that’s the case it would feel delightful to hear about it and I’m sorry for assuming anything.

    I feel like Daria is like a spokeswoman for something that is part of me that I have a hard time putting into words. And it triggers some posters here but it is rarely followed by a true journey into feelings, just one poster not liking Daria for whatever reason and trying to “win” with feeling messages, if any feeling messages get used at all.

    I really love this place and feel grateful for every body here. I feel grateful to Paula for not leaving. It is interesting about boundaries. It’s like…we can say sometimes EFF THIS I’M OUT OF HERE because we want to put a boundary in place at least for the moment, but in the end we didn’t really mean it and I think we weaken ourselves doing that. I feel interested in Paula’s feelings in the moment. What does wanting to leave the blog feel like? It certainly doesn’t feel like SOMEONE ELSE being inauthentic. It certainly doesn’t feel like SOMEONE ELSE criticizing you.

    Oh Paula I feel poorly equipped to relate to you and communicate what I’m trying to say but if you’re still reading this thank you for at least giving it a shot.
    That heart is authentic, I swear. <3 <3 to you!

  92.  #92Rori Raye on March 3, 2010 at 8:22 am

    Dorothea, Just was very moved by your comment…Daria rocks, and you rock, and all of you rock, and me, too…working it out here with each other is like the magic bullet we’re all looking for…the thing is – sometimes it takes the shape of a bullet, and sometimes a pill…and sometimes just a flash of light in our hearts. Love, Rori

  93.  #93Rori Raye on March 3, 2010 at 8:25 am

    Wow, Paula and Daria – so cool…

  94.  #94Rori Raye on March 3, 2010 at 8:26 am

    Paula – welcome again….Love, Rori

  95.  #95Rori Raye on March 3, 2010 at 8:34 am

    Re the age thing…When you fill out the forms on match, for instance – you put a birthdate/age. That age is what causes you to show up when a man first enters his preferences. If you’re 51, and he puts in 35-50 – you won’t show up. So – I say, put your official age at 50 – and then in the body of the profile put – Oh, by the way, I’m actually 51, but I put it at 50 just for the data sort…honesty feels important to me…and technology requires creativity….” or something like that. Or don’t if you’d rather not. If it were me…I’d experiment on different sites and see what happens both ways…and as long as I’m telling the truth in the profile or the sidebar of the profile – doesn’t matter how creative I get in the sort mechanics. I want you to take a professional glamor shot, too – and no one looks that way 100% of the time. Put some more natural (but BEAUTIFUL) shots in the “other photos” but put the one that gets the most hits as the primary photo. The photo that shows up first is the one that determines the quality of men you attract to get one step closer to you…We’re looking for a pool of men, remember, to Circular Date swth – we’re not looking for Mr. Right. That really helps when you’re doing this…Love, Rori

  96.  #96Rori Raye on March 3, 2010 at 8:35 am

    Yes, Daria – it’s great and very advanced to say “I’m feeling myself feeling judgmental here about that, and I don’t like feeling this way…” Love, Rori

  97.  #97Rori Raye on March 3, 2010 at 8:37 am

    Tina – good question – don’t fudge about anything else that shows up on your profile page – weight, anything…stay totally true to yourself on your profile page. I still stick with the experiment with the age for the data sort, though..

  98.  #98Goodheart on March 3, 2010 at 8:48 am

    Has anyone else noticed all the messages out there lately? Actually, I think I’m just tuning into them more. Since I’ve been working on my siren-ness & reading this blog, everywhere I look are messages. I was watching the Bachelor with my sister & I told her, “Jake won’t pick Tenley. He doesn’t feel comfortable with her really. She is too fragile. Too nice.” My sister said, “I didn’t think there was such a thing as too nice.” I said, “In dating, there is!” And on After the Final Rose special, that is essentially what Jake told Tenley – that he didn’t feel like he could really be himself around her. This spoke to me. My last relationship was all about that.

    Now, I am “getting” the messages that are all around me. I am seeing how I don’t always let my authentic self out when I’m with someone I feel strongly attracted to. What am I afraid of? That I won’t be attractive enough to him if I let it all hang out? Well, Vienna tested that theory, didn’t she? And she got the guy.

    Oh, and Daria, I had just gotten an email from Jannette Maw about GoodVibeU & then I came to this blog & there it was in your post! Whoa.

    Messages all around.

    It’s like the Universe has faith in me & is opening my eyes & heart. I’m seeing & feeling & listening. I’m FINALLY ready.

    I love this quote:

    When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

  99.  #99Liz on March 3, 2010 at 11:30 am

    A slight change in comment aura. Rori, I feel intrigued by this: “The chemistry has to be there for him (notice I say “him,” because chemistry can GROW for YOU – that’s how it’s supposed to work).”
    Can you share more on this? I’m curious about the growing chemistry part….

  100.  #100Daria on March 3, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    I feel so happy!


    Sia –

    So what do you think – if swearwords trigger can be healed, cannot also trigger set off by criticism or hearing:do and don’t, be healed as well? Like, the trigger of feeling of being attacked is healed, and would be replaced by appreciation?

    Yes I think this trigger can be healed too!!! Yes I SO MUCH WANT TO HEAL THIS!!! I FEEL VERY EXCITED ABOUT IT!!!

    one time I did feel healed from it even if it was only for a few days. I did the Lefkoe Method belief change video, and the ones about deconditioning myself to meeting others expectations. That nite when I started going out, and my parents as they often do were asking me questions about where im going in a disapproving tone…. I FELT ALMOST NO ANXIETY. It felt amazing. I just felt peaceful and loving. That didn’t last, but it gave me a taste of what it would feel like… no tightening in my tummy lower back, no sloshing water in my head, no fear and hiding heart…. ohhh … yes i would LOVE to heal this. Thank you universe for the support.

    Sia I take your question as a signal that this healing is already underway and will be complete very soon!

    Thank you!

    Paula – I went to sleep thinking something and woke up and I thought of it still… I said I commit to not giving advice to you unless you ask me for it. I take that back. It doesn’t feel good to me to commit to that. That doesn’t mean that I will do it to trigger it, or maybe I won’t at all, but I want to feel ok with myself to do whatever I want especially something that has a piece of loving intent – I don’t want to hold back out of fear … and I know that doing so in one case is the same as doing it in others for me, because my subconscious takes note… and I want to be able to offer help to those in my life … AND I really want to have my help accepted honored and turn out helpful (thinking of certain things in my life here) THIS IS A HUGE THING FOR ME THAT I WANT TO HEAL! – (even though it sometimes feels like control too and I know that’s a trigger for me).

    So I clear that statement out.

    I feel so happy that we are in a loving place now and I actually feel so GRATEFUL for this huge trigger and the wonderful support I’ve received – and you too!

  101.  #101Daria on March 3, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    Sia — I feel really intrigued that when I say “I feel attacked” it makes you feel like you’re being accused of being an attacker!

    This is cool because to me that means that’s the same with men too… kind of like being hurt and then he feels like he “hurt” you. I still sometimes will use it as when it comes to me…

    but it really stands out to me how other non- “doing” feeling messages

    like… I feel angry. I feel defensive. I feel sad.

    work more smoothly than i feel attacked.

    even though when i say “i feel attacked” i dont mean YOU ATTACKED ME. I mean I FEEL attacked. I can feel this way, without an actual attack happening, because of my triggers…

    and thank you for writing that

    sometimes with men too, I’ve noticed that they’ll say… why do you feel attacked im not attacking you… and then i’ll say something like… i dono thats how i feel… or… when i heard blah blah i felt attacked… etc

    a lil confusing… hmm

  102.  #102Lucy on March 3, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Daria, I find that when I am wanting to say “I feel attacked” or “I feel hurt” etc., I am just not quite at the core feeling that I am truly feeling — the real EMOTION that is underneath feeling “attacked” or “hurt.” It may be anger, fear, sadness, anxiety, frustration, etc. And when I truly access what is underneath “attacked” or “hurt” I am able to sink into it, really FEEL it, and it transforms and heals whatever the trigger was.

    I feel hopeful that this makes sense and can help. 🙂 But if it doesn’t, I feel fine about that. 🙂

    BTW, I feel so happy watching all the “healing through triggering” that is taking place on here. It feels like real intimacy. I feel so proud of everyone!!!

  103.  #103Daria on March 3, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    Lucy thanks!

    I’m feeling triggered right now and i’m feeling anxious and angry. This man whos coming to meet me in my town said my directions werent coming up and he wanted an address which i didnt have, then he asked me to look it up, which i did with him on the phone, but i felt judgemental of him “he could have done this himself before” i felt a lil resentful

    but mostly i felt angry because he was kinda abrupt with me

    i feel unsure about this man because abruptness seems to be the norm with him ugh

    i feel not cared for really


    im feeling weird and i didnt like it

  104.  #104Daria on March 3, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    omgosh i just got back from my date!

    intense practice!!!


    he was “difficult” hehe

    but i worked it

    he’s obviously feeling me

    he’s rethinking his ideas about dating being equal

    cuz he really wants to see me

    i leaned back and opened up some



    and hes handsome
    and dresses well
    that was nice


    NOTE: another date coming up tonite with a not difficult sexy man! yeah! i deserve it

    I “made” difficutl man get me a burrito

    i said i was hungry – i was i hadnt eaten

    he said hes not but hell watch me eat
    i said mm

    we went to teh burrito shop
    i just assumed he was getting it for me… well i actuallyl thought he intended to because he came up behind me and hugged me while i was looking at the menu

    and i told him i want a baby burrito

    and then he looked at me and said… Oh you were expecting me to get it for you?

    and i looked him in the eye and said: Yes.

    i felt a lil uncomfortable and triggered

    and he got it


    ima now get all my burritos this way

    rice beans meat cheese, NO salsa


    i want em with shrimp. this one i felt like asada



    this man was difficult

    but he DID NOT want to let me go

    after more intense practice which maybe ill share later…

    hes like

    i dont want us to end on a bad note and not see you again

    i said yeah! me too!


    i feel like im blessing him with courting skills

  105.  #105Tina on March 3, 2010 at 11:43 pm

    I feel happy you got your burrito 🙂 tonight I circular dated myself. I was at karaoke , after all the drama, I started to feel better about my feelings or having better feelings. A twenty something yr old guy, was really impressed with my singing, he complimented me and the two young girls with him , just kinda looked , not knowing what to do. I said thank you, with a big smile and asked him if he was going to sing, he said yeah, I asked which song, he wanted to sing a country song. He said he cant sing I said awe that sucks. He said he would try though with a bashful look on his face and a nice smile. He offered me a puff of his joint , I said no thank you.
    He looked at it again and said I dont want it either and tossed it over the fence. I watched the two younger girls in their twenties, they were sooooooo leaning forward all night with this guy, he kept stealing looks in my direction 🙂

  106.  #106Tina on March 3, 2010 at 11:45 pm

    Daria, your such a Goddess, blessing him with courting skills 🙂 awe , he is blessed for sure and you are too, for having the tools to bless him with.

  107.  #107Tina on March 3, 2010 at 11:47 pm

    I;m 43 and fuckin lovin it! wooooooohooooooooooo!

  108.  #108Tina on March 3, 2010 at 11:50 pm

    We bless these men and they dont even know it 🙂 I think that is so beautiful. So so beautiful. For one night they feel like men. Masculine enegry men, who will go kill a cow for your burrito or whatever you want on it.

  109.  #109Daria on March 4, 2010 at 10:32 am

    Tina Lol — I love the image of them killing a cow — ummm I feel guilty when i think of the cow as cute – — but I STILL love the image. Brand Daria

  110.  #110sia on March 5, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    daria, lucy

    if there is a core under ‘i feel attacked’, then for me it would be I feel scared in some cases and I feel worthless (when spoken to like this) in other cases.


    are we allowed to say I feel worthless? Or, I feel unworthy of you?
    I don’t feel like saying that to a guy! or anybody

    Can somebody remember a post about a ‘cost of feeling messages’ – it was something I just glanced at, that sometimes it is better be quiet? I might remember it wrong.

  111.  #111sia on March 5, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    another lost post question:

    some goddess was describing how she switched to feeling messages and her man reacted like he is bothered, she was asking if anyone else had the same experience – anger as an initial reaction of feeling messages.

    I was really interested in answers, please help me find the thread if you know where it is. Thank you!

  112.  #112Lucy on March 5, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    Not sure, Sia.

    But your comment reminded me of something cool that happened yesterday, emailing a new guy I haven’t met in person yet. He wrote something that really made me feel valued by him. When I went to respond with feeling messages, I started to write “I feel valued” but I stopped myself because I ralized that even though it was something positive, it was still placing the “blame” or in this case, the responsibility, for my feeling on him. I didn’t want to do that because my value is not dependent on him.

    So I wrote “I feel valuable.” !!!!!

    It felt so good to write that and send it to a man!!!!

    And it must have felt good to him to hear it from a woman as part of a response to his email! I don’t remember what he wrote after that but it continues to be good stuff between us.

    So, this stuff about tweaking feeling messages (incl stuff like feeling “attacked”) is good and helpful. Thanks!

  113.  #113Lucy on March 5, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    Sia, I wouldn’t feel good about saying “I feel unworthy of you.” or even “worthless.”

    Can you think of the emotion that might be underneath that for you? “Worthless” is more of a description than a feeling. How does that thought of being worthless FEEL to you?

  114.  #114sia on March 5, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    honestly, i have no idea!
    all that comes to mind, are synonyms, like, I feel unimportant etc.
    So you think my brain is concealing my true feelings by coming up with descriptions/labels?

    maybe i will try not to think about it for a few days and my brain will work it out in my sleep.

    What about for you – are there feelings which you would never express, even with the frame of mind of no expectation?

  115.  #115tinque on March 5, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    sia – your feelings are of insecurity. there’s nothing wrong with feeling insecure. we all do at times. it’s okay to say this. I do. “I’m feeling insecure.” or shaky or unsure or confused or weird or how about scared.

  116.  #116Daria on March 5, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    My Feelings are in the body… sometiems they have no names…

    this is very important:

    but to give them names i do this:
    the basic labels for the ones that do have names to me are

    i feel angry, sad, glad, afraid

    then other feelings are under these categories or a mix.

    i also use good and bad

    and then i use a whole poetic free flow…

    but when i feel stuck and don’t want to blame, i got back to angry sad, happy, afraid

  117.  #117sia on March 6, 2010 at 6:17 am

    Thank you, very enlightening! Yes I feel OK saying I feel insecure.
    thanks xx

  118.  #118Chrissy on March 17, 2010 at 10:46 pm

    Hi Rori
    I am interested to know your view on Fly in Fly Out relationships. Here where I live (west Australia), we did not have a GFC or even notice an economic downturn. This is because we are a very resource rich state and mining companies continued to pay extremely high salaries to their workers who fly up north (about 1800+km away), work 14 days of 12 hours shifts and then fly home for 2 weeks of R&R. (FIFO).

    I have always worked in mining / resources (city based) and have seen first hand the destructiveness of FIFO relationships and firmly believe they do not work, espec where children are involved. The woman has to assume both male and female hats and is by herself for 2 weeks, the man comes home exhausted and just wants to relax / party, not be the “man”.

    My live in partner, however, has not had that exposure and has recently started talking about taking one of those positions for a few years so that we can “get ahead financially” (this is the reason most people I know go into it, but then they get so addicted to the huge money they cannot walk away from the job)

    I have always told him I do not want to be in a relationship like that one but he believes my view to be unreasonable. He sees this to be our only solution.

    I feel extremely panicked and afraid at the thought of him taking a job like this. I do not want to live that lifestyle. Financial gain does not drive me, emotional security is much more important. He is not a man who is comfortable having long conversations on the phone (the only method of communication when up there) and I would be a single mother for all intents and purposes. How do I resolve this crisis?

    I would love your advice or help here please Rori xxx

  119.  #119Cassandra on March 19, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    Hey Rori and Sirens….
    I have not posted in a very long time but have been really trying to implement the tools. Things are so different for me now than they were when I first came to the blog and I feel so so thankful for that! I feel as though I have ME back again and that in itself feels wonderful.

    Rori….I am now in a similar position than Vickie and will be meeting the gentleman that I have been talking to now for 3 months, on April 9th. He says that he works a lot and perhaps I am being too trusting here but I do feel that he is indeed telling me the truth. I suppose you never really know what is true and what is not until you get to know that person over time. He does however call me daily on his way in to work and on his way home and is involved in a huge work project….and he even calls me through out the weekends. I am continuing to circular date although I admit that my feelings for the other men that I have been talking to are totally waning. That feels scary for me as it feels as though I am becoming emotionally involved.

    I do feel extremely uncomfortable however in that he had told me that he was not at all enamored with the ‘online experience’ and would not be renewing his one month trial membership. His one month trial membership was for the month that he had contacted me….3 months ago. I just discovered that he is still on that site. I had deleted my profile on that particular site shortly after we began talking although that had nothing to do with him. I had been planning to NOT renew that membership even before he contacted me. I discovered that he was still on there by the way because I also have a girlfriend who is on the same site….she was actually the one that saw his profile still online and that he had just signed in as recently as yesterday. I feel deceived and angry. We have never said anything about being a ‘couple’ which I would not have agreed to anyway but the point is that he said one things and did another. Sound familiar? It feels all too familiar that is for sure!

    Anyway….he had made plans to come to see me and now I am not sure that I should even allow him to do that. I loved what you said about him coming to see Vickie being HIS INVESTMENT and I had never thought of it that way either. I love that and am going to try to really remember that for future! I am not sure what to do about this. I really liked this man and we seemed to have a great connection but I really feel deceived and angry. He was actually just on the site where we met….just yesterday when all the while he has been talking to me about how much he is into me and me alone and saying things like he is not into the online thing and would not renew….and telling me things like “You make me really happy.” I am sooooo not sure what to think or do here.

    Do I let him come to visit?? Do I continue to correspond with him?? I feel confused and frustrated because I really thought he seemed like a nice guy so far until this…..this feels waaaay too familiar!

    I do have another question though too….sorry this is so long!

    How does it work when the tools tell us that WE Should be leaning way back letting THEM do the calling, planning, asking, etc (which by the way, I really trying to implement and completely change my own behaviors!!) but yet most of the male dating coaches out there are telling guys that We should be the ones calling, asking, planning, etc???!

    The male dating coaches out there are telling guys exactly this….

    Let HER do all the calling and all the work
    and all the date-making. And if SHE doesn’t watch out – some other great GAL is going to step in and take you away from HER. This is the ATTITUDE you need to have. This is the Attitude that will make HER sit up and take notice and turn things around. This is the Attitude that will change your
    life and get you what you want.

    I LOVE what YOU said about the MEN doing these things but until now I have not found a man that would do these things consistently as they always seem to want me to do the work so I walk away because that is NOT what I want. I feel proud of that change in my life by the way. YAY for me!!

    I feel confused about the same message coming from both sides. Can you please shed some light on this for me? Thanks Rori.

    With love…..

  120.  #120Daria on March 19, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    Cassandra! I feel so thrilled to see you! I’ve been wanting to ask you a question… I remember you were working with a business coach… I want to do this too?

    Can you recommend one?

    Thank you,


  121.  #121Vickie on March 20, 2010 at 8:33 am

    UPDATE to the questions that began this blog:

    Rori, this is an update on the Online, long distance relationship that you warned me not to invest in before I knew where it was going. I have to tell you Rori, you were definitely right in saying that the date had not even happened yet! This is my situation now. We continued to have great chats over the phone, and all seemed to be going well. Then we started to make plans for his visit. He had already mentioned that he had a half brother who lives in my town, and he would contact him, etc. Our conversation ended that night with him saying that he would look into flights and get back with me so that we could talk about the exact date he should come and how long he should visit. From all indications, everything was going well. But guess what Rori? I haven’t heard from him since! And that was 2 weeks ago today. This is a man who called me at least 2 or 3 times a week for over a month. I’m not sure what has happened. I haven’t called him to ask, and I don’t know if it is appropriate that I should do so. What is your advice?

    Here are some situations that could be affecting him: 1) He does have a very ill little girl who is in and out of the hospital. In fact, she had just had another operation and had just come home (to her mom’s) a couple days before he called me. Her condition is terminal. 2) I also learned that he has been married 3 times already! That sort of set off an alarm for me. Is he an immature man who makes bad relationship decisions, I wondered? Do you think he is afraid of another failed relationship? 3) The night we discussed his visit, he was telling me about his son, who has been living with his girlfriend for about eight years. He asked my opinion about people living together, and I told him that I didn’t want that for myself. He agreed and said he didn’t want that for himself either. 4) Another thing we discussed was finances and the economy. I got the impression that he was doing okay financially but perhaps didn’t have a lot of extra money to spend these days. So I wondered if he had checked on the cost of a flight to visit me and determined that it was more than he could afford and was too embarrassed to tell me. 5) And finally, we discussed relocation. I think that he is concerned that I will not be willing to relocate and that if he relocates, he will not be near his sick daughter. I’m not sure how I feel about relocation either because of my job. I am only 5 years away from retirement. He’s already retired but does some home improvement jobs part-time. He also owns about six homes, which he rents out. I have not discussed how I feel about relocating.
    So you see, Rori, there could be many reasons for him to think twice about a relationship with me. What disappoints me though is the fact that he hasn’t bothered to call me back! I feel that he has handled this in a very immature way. Or am I wrong here, Rori? What is your advice for me? Should I call him to see what is going on? Or should I just forget about him and move on because I’m dealing with an immature man? I am truly stumped here.

  122.  #122dorothea on March 20, 2010 at 9:18 am

    Hey Vickie, I am of course not the lovely and wise Rori Raye, but I would like to say that it seems as though this man is disqualified…at least for now, girl. I just had to disqualify someone i was feeling attached to, and it feels very very VERY hard and MADDENING but we can do this. maybe they will approach us again in the near future and show us something different…like treatment we deserve:P. It’s hard when you want a man to want you back so bad that we quit taking at face value all the things we don’t want as just that: things we don’t want.

    Vickie, I am having a hard time leaning back and not contacting him because i am feeling stumped and want answers. Will you please lean back with me for now? we won’t reach out because we’re stumped. we’ll lean back and be with our feelings because we’re stumped. it would feel so great to have a lean back buddy right now.

    maybe rori will say differently but at least this gives you something to think about until she gets back to you:).

  123.  #123Vickie on March 20, 2010 at 10:05 am

    Hi Dorothea,
    Thanks for your advice, girl. Yes, leaning back is exactly what I”ve been doing. I feel that I’m on unstable ground with this guy. Because of his past failed marriages (multiple marriages!), I feel that there might be a risk that isn’t worth taking here. Granted, his first marriage occured when he was in his early 20s and the second one occured because he wanted to do the “right thing” when his girlfriend became pregnant, but as for the 3rd one,…well….

    He admitted that his own father was not there for them and when he was, he was not a good husband, so he didn’t have a role-model. This man is now 57 yrs. old, so I feel that he should have learned better by now. Some never mature though.

    Anyway, Dorethea, as for your situation, hang in the there and continue leaning back. And while you’re leaning back, put on your goddess smile, hold up your gorgeous goddess head, allow other men to stare into those flashing goddess eyes as you lean back into your sultry, sexy goddess stance that you can do so well, honey, and strut your stuff!!! And let’s hope those poor guys, whose eyes will be bugging out by now, don’t step out into traffic or fall through an open manhole cover because they are hypnotized by your mesmerizing presence!

    I’m feeling very positive vibes about this, sweetie! Can’t you feel it too?

    Many Blessings!

  124.  #124Cassandra on March 20, 2010 at 10:27 am

    Vickie….I hope it is ok for me to give you some support on this as I have gone through this very thing too and it totally feels horrible. I have no idea why men do this but I am learning slowly but surely for me that it is not even about ‘Him’ but rather about how I want to react to it…… that if a man begins all hot and heavy and things seem to be wonderful but then they disappear….that it is NOT my issue and NOT my job to figure out what is going on with him…..but it IS my job to take care of ME and how I feel about ME and what is happening in my life. When this has happened to me in the past, I chose to lean WAY back and not call him, text him or even try to send him a smoke signal!! I cannot tell you that it has been easy especially at first but the more time that goes by where you DON”T contact him the stronger you feel and the better you feel about YOU! I have simply moved on and tried to the best of my ability to forget that he even existed. I have found that every single time that I do this – it feels SUPER hard and scary for me at first but as Rori’s does get easier as each day goes by!! – I have found that as soon as my energy is off of him and back ONTO ME…POOF! out of nowhere….he re-appears and acts as though nothing has even happened… when meanwhile for at least a portion of that time he was M.I.A…… I was left hurt and angry and wondering what the heck happened. He continues to act as though nothing ever happened and that things are exactly the way that they were before he disappeared or ‘blew me off’. That kind of behavior feels awful to me and it feels really hurtful and that is NOT something that I want in my life. I can honestly say that once he does re-appear out of seemingly nowhere….my interest level has waned significantly and even if I do see him again once or twice, it is ME who no longer wants him because of what I DO want for my life…..which is a man that would not treat me that way. I want someone in my life that wants to be with me and will do whatever needs to be done in order for us to stay connected and continue to grow together. I know it feels awful to know that he did not even have enough care and concern for you to let you know what was up but you deserve so much more than that and I personally feel that as Dorothea said…..he is now ‘disqualified’! In other words……NEXT!

    That has been a hard journey for me but I feel good about where I am now and I feel that I am no longer willing to accept that kind of behavior.

    As far as my post from yesterday…I have decided to simply tell him how I feel using the feeling messages. Here is some of what I have written down so far….

    Me: I feel happy to hear from you and I am feeling excited to see you but I am also feeling confused and a little frustrated.
    Him: Hopefully he would ask me why I feel those things.
    Me: Well, I feel confused because I want someone in my life that does what they say they are going to do. I felt uncomfortable learning that your profile is still up on the site where we met even though you had told me that you were deleting it. What do you think?

    Can anyone give me some insight on what I should or should not say to him?

    Is there anyone out there that could give me some insight as to what I was asking n my post from yesterday??? Rori? I am really in a quandary here and don’t know what to do or even if I should continue to move forward with this man. I feel invisible here and frustrated. I would feel so appreciative if anyone had some input.

    Daria…good to hear from you as well. I will get you that business coach’s info, ok? Hope you are well!!

  125.  #125dorothea on March 20, 2010 at 10:40 am

    yes thank you, i was feeling thirsty and desperate, but you are helping me shift my whole vibe. weee thanks lady! i feel positive vibes for both of us. i am focusing on me and posting stuff on my blog (link from my name) and cleaning up the house and blasting reggaeton.

  126.  #126Paula on March 20, 2010 at 10:50 am

    Cassandra – it’s great to read you here again. Your words helped me to lean back. Sorry, I don’t have any input on the dating coach advice for men. When I leaned back in my last brief relationship, he didn’t step up and I felt a gulf between us. So I’m still learning how to lean back but keep my heart open maybe and not panic if he doesn’t lean forward.

    Vicki – you sound great. Fantastic!

    Dorothea – I need a lean back buddy too…

    I’ve been feeling so low lately. I have a new, very stressful job. My long distance relationship hopes didn’t work out. He said he loved me, came on hot and heavy and now POOF! Nothing, no contact. I did not love him and I wasn’t hugely attracted to him but I still feel sore and rejected. He has already met someone else….

    I went to the doctor today cos I haven’t been sleeping and I’ve been feeling so down. She prescribed anti-depressants but I don’t know if I want to take them or not. I’d love to make the feel bad feelings go away. I’m trying to take care of myself in all kinds of ways. It feels hard to be going through these feelings again.

  127.  #127Linda on March 20, 2010 at 10:58 am

    Cassandra you are on the right track and bridge. Stay on it. Dont make excuses or exceptions. I did that it did not help anything but only made it worse for me inside.

    I have just lived thru this.. so here goes. Things I have said but forgot to apply to me all the time.

    Men that are not right in front of you are NOT real.
    Men dont call because they dont want to.
    A profile that is still up after he said he was deleting it?…. ahh yes… This shows his true heart and attidude AND he lied about it.

    RED FLAGS…. Dont invest, dont call, dont text. If he does call, dont sweep it under the rug. Speak your truth and how your feel about it. He will then know what you value and expect. You are a woman that requires things right?…. Men will do as little as we require of them. If they dont step up then… they dont get the prize. RIght?

    For a man who called and communicated all the time to suddenly stop… he had time before, made time before with all the situations that you described. Dont let that enter your well, I will make an acception…. Keep that in the NO FLY ZONE.

    This does not make you feel good and not what you want. Keep your tollerance level at zero.

    I gave in on lots of these things and the ground I gained was lost. I feel back at level 2 and I was up to about an 8 and walking toward 10.

    Just my two cents worth.



  128.  #128dorothea on March 20, 2010 at 11:18 am

    Paula we are going to lean back all day long.:)

    you could also lean back on taking the prescription today. sorry u been feeling down, i am sending lots of positive energy your way today!

  129.  #129Cassandra on March 20, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Dorothea…did you say Reggaeton?? When do we go dancing Girl?? LOL Love it!! I am an admitted Salsa addict!! LOL

    Paula…thanks for your input and your post. I feel somewhat ‘missed’ and that feels good. Thank you for that. 🙂 What you are talking about though is exactly the situation where I feel that for me…I MUST lean back. If he does not come forward…I don’t want him. I want a man that will step up and be a man. Period. I don’t care anymore what the excuses are….unless he is dead….then there is no excuse. This is in MY world though and what I have found that I need and want…and deserve. I do find that it does feel hurtful and awful but when I look at what I DO WANT but have accepted in my own past, I am no longer willing to accept anything less than what I want and need for ME. If they stop contacting me….I move on….NEXT! Period. Now if they re-appear and it seems that they nearly always do…I do remain open but I find that as I move forward again… is ME then that no longer wants to be with them. How cool is that???!!

    Linda…thank you thank you thank you! I do feel good being back here. It feels like “HOME” to me and I feel thankful for this blog, for all of you and of course for Rori.

    a few questions…..
    “Men that are not right in front of you are NOT real”….does this mean that HE is not real then at least in my life? Do you mean then that in a long distance relationship that there really isn’t one? I feel confused about this part.

    “Men dont call because they dont want to.” …. I am FINALLY getting this part Linda!! I agree! If he wanted to call me yesterday – he would have. Period. No excuses…no explanations. It is what it is. He simply did NOT want to talk with me yesterday. Period.

    “A profile that is still up after he said he was deleting it?…. ahh yes… This shows his true heart and attidude AND he lied about it.”……I totally agree. Hence….my feelings of deceit and frustration and even a little anger in there too. I don’t like his actions and to me they do NOT feel trustworthy, they do NOT feel honest and they DO feel ‘gamelike’. I DON”T want that in my life again. Period!

    “RED FLAGS…. Dont invest, dont call, dont text. If he does call, dont sweep it under the rug. Speak your truth and how your feel about it. He will then know what you value and expect. You are a woman that requires things right?…. Men will do as little as we require of them. If they dont step up then… they dont get the prize. RIght?”….LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE LINDA!!! THANK YOU! I feel proud of myself. I did not call…I did not text. He did call this morning but I let it go to vm as I was taking out the trash so when I get back up here, I called him back. I did not say anything about it though because I felt that for me, it was not the right time. He was on his way to work and was tired and stressed. IF he calls this evening and is in a relaxed ‘mode’, I know that I will feel better bringing it up then. That is for ME feeling comfy in the timing….not Him though. I want and deserve his full attention.

    What do you think about what I should say? How do you feel about what I wrote about in the previous post that are things that I may say?? Did I do ok on those?? Any tweaks that you would make? I copied it and put it here too…..

    Me: I feel happy to hear from you and I am feeling excited to see you but I am also feeling confused and a little frustrated.
    Him: Hopefully he would ask me why I feel those things.
    Me: Well, I really value trust and honesty. Those things feel REALLY important to me. I feel confused because I want someone in my life that does what they say they are going to do. I felt uncomfortable learning that your profile is still up on the site where we met even though you had told me that you were deleting it. What do you think?

    **IF he says something like “oh…I am sorry Sweetheart, I was just going to wait until it expired”…then I would say this…

    ME: I feel uncomfortable. I don’t want anyone in my life that I feel that I can’t rely on to do what they tell me that they are going to do. I want a man in my life that feels reliable to me… that I feel that I can trust to do what he says he is going to do. What do you think?

    LINDA….what do you think of what I could say to him? This is the part I get all twisted up in because I don’t want to place blame anywhere. I want it to be about how I feel….period.
    I feel thankful and I value your input!! I feel excited about talking to him about this now and I feel excited to get to tell him what I want and need. I don’t feel attached to the outcome. I feel committed to ME and my own happiness. This feels good!


  130.  #130Vickie on March 20, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    You ladies are awesome! I feel so blessed to see how other ladies are ready to stand up, stand in, and stand committed to helping other ladies who are having problems and need support, advice, or just a shoulder to cry on! This is truly amazing. Thanks ladies, for being a lifeline! Thanks for all the personal advice to me, in particular! I feel so much stronger knowing that I have a place I can go for some great advice! I’m feeling you, ladies! I’m feeling you! And it’s wonderful! I’m also feeling that it’s going to be much easier to just move on to the next ‘fella’ who has been waiting for someone just like me! You see, I haven’t stopped circular dating. I have a couple of other guys who are “knocking at the door,” so to speak, anxious to see what I’m all about, and I’ve just been leaning back and letting them “bring it on!” I think it’s time I upped the goddess charm and send out the “come and get me” signal! I’m feeling especially seductive right now as I lean back, knowing that I’m the greatest catch a man can ever find, and that the one who is fortunate enough to realize that and feel that he can’t live without me, is going to be one lucky guy indeed! Thanks my fellow goddesses! In our “togetherness”, we are absolutely mar-ve-lous!


  131.  #131Linda on March 20, 2010 at 3:58 pm


    The part about a man not being real if they are not in front of you helped me free my mind up. Thinking, wondering, wishing. Not focused on a man if he is not in front of me. Giving him space in my head and heart when he is not there . A long distance relationship…I have read over and over that it is not a real relationship. THey are puesdo relationships lots of times.

    I get twisted up in delivering speeches. I am new at the speaking in feeling messages. I am however getting really good at drawing my boundries and feeling and speaking my dont wants. Kinda coming in the back door but I am getting there. I found if I that if can identfy what I am unhappy or frustrated with, I can look at the opposite and find that is what is missing and I want.

    I think you did well communicating in writing here what you feel and and need. I learned something from you.


  132.  #132Cassandra on March 20, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Vickie…I feel so excited for you!!! Your energy feels so different now and it feels JOYFUL! I love that!! YAY!! I celebrate that for you & with you!! 🙂

    Linda….Thanks too for your input. I get what you are saying about long distance relationships not always being REAL. I am honestly not sure what to think about this relationship or Non-relationship. I don’t necessarily feel the need to label it but at the same time I would like to know how HE feels about things. For me, given the fact that we have yet to meet in person – it is still a non-relationship. The fact that he is still on the site though – for me – also makes it most definitely a NON-relationship! That just feels so ICKY to me and I don’t like that at all. I don’t however want to jump to any conclusions either. I can sometimes tend to lean toward assumptions as much as I try not to! OY VAY! I don’t want to do that though.

    I am so glad that you learned something from ME. Wow. Awesome! I learn from all of you as well so thank you for that too!! 🙂 The one thing that I find hard for me sometimes is being careful to NOT place blame of any kind. I think I am pretty good at the feeling messages but I just want to be so careful about the ‘blaming thing’. I definitely don’t want to go there at all.

    Part of me feels really sad though about this. I really like this man and so enjoyed our conversations and web cam talks. I really felt myself looking forward to that time with him each night where we would tuck each other in and just talk for hours. It felt good. Now though, I feel UN-trusting and confused. I still really like him but I no longer feel that ‘safe’ feeling like I did. That feels awful for me because emotionally feeling safe for me is a HUGE deal. I suppose that time will tell right?

    Thank you Sirens for your input and Vickie….please DO celebrate your movin’ on!! Better things are on the horizon!!

    Love to all….

  133.  #133Vickie on March 20, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Thanks, Cassandra, you siren you! I promise to continue to celebrate!!!

    Cassandra, you brought up a point that I was wondering about. When does one stop…or pause communicating with other men on the site? The guy I wrote about here is no longer on the site, but I still am. His membership was up, and he decided that he wouldn’t renew. I, on the other hand, have about another month to go before my membership is up, so I’ve continued to check my messages and communicate with guys, though none caught my interest, really. I still talked to them, though, for “practice.” I’m not clear on whether or not I should have stopped communicating with other guys for a while. I’m sure that my guy could see that I had been online if he checked, even though he was no longer technically a member. He hadn’t deleted his profile altogether. I could still check his profile, and from all indications, he had not been visiting the site–based on the date of his last login. I’m just not sure what the “rules” are for online “dating.”

    I’ve heard some guys say that they stopped communicating with girls they really liked because they saw that the girls were still online chatting with other men. They felt that the girls should have stopped communicating with other guys while they were in the process of getting to know each other. Because they didn’t stop, the guys felt that the girls weren’t really serious about being in a committed relationship. Now these were guys my age–late forties and over. I don’t know if age makes a difference or not. ???

    Any of you sirens have any thoughts on any or all of the above?


  134.  #134Cassandra on March 20, 2010 at 9:03 pm

    HI Vickie….
    I would so love to know the answer to that question myself!! LOL I personally removed my profile from the site where I met the gentleman that I am talking to -the one that was going to come to see me – but I removed it because #1. My membership was about to expire and I really didn’t like being on that particular site and #2 I had been planning to delete it when the membership expired anyway. This gentleman just happened to contact me right before I was going to delete it – when my membership expired. It may LOOK LIKE it had something to do with him but that – for me- was not the case.

    He had told me that he did not like the online thing and was not going to renew once his membership expired and perhaps I may be over-reacting here. I don’t know the exact date that HIS was going to expire so perhaps he really was just on there until that time and it may expire in the next few days. I don’t know. I will have to go back into my email and check the dates to see when he first contacted me. I could have sworn that it was the 2nd or 3rd week in Jan – I think I may have said in a previous email that it was 3 months but I stand corrected here…I am pretty sure it was 2. If that was the case then he definitely would have lied to me about it and renewed. That would not be ok with me at all…not so much the fact that he is still on there but the fact that he would have then lied about it would be my issue. I have a HUGE problem with men who lie on these sites as I have found that most of them do. To start something based on a lie will never be something that would work for me no – matter what the reason. Dishonesty is dishonesty for me. I don’t know if I should even bring it up to him or not and I certainly don’t know at this point whether or not I should still allow him to come to see me. I do feel so confused about this now. 🙁 Anyone have any insight here?? HELP?!

    AS far as the ‘rules’…I am not sure that there are any. I know that for me, I really have a hard time if there is someone that I am really beginning to like, leaving my profile visible. I have hidden it in the past however I have also been totally up front and told the guy that I was talking to that I did not delete it, I just hid it so that I could see if I wanted to continue to get to know him and then I would either delete it down the road or make it visible again depending on what I wanted to do. That was a long time ago though. That was pre Rori days and several years ago. Now?? I have no idea what I would do but I don’t think I would do that as it would go totally against the Circular Dating thing. (I am really trying to work on C.D but am really bad at it. I get so confused about who does what and has how many children and likes to do what for fun.) Anyway… I got so sick of all of the crap…the lies and the games out there that I deleted my profile as soon as it expired. I am so tired of all of the dishonesty out there and feel so angry about this situation with this man that I was really beginning to like…alot. I feel lied to. I don’t want that kind of thing in my life.

    I can totally see though where those guys can feel frustrated that they are ‘investing’ in someone yet they find that the girl they are talking to is still online talking to other men….look at the situation that I am in right now. I can totally see how they feel. This man specifically told me that he felt that he no longer needed to be online and that he was going to delete his profile and not renew his membership soi that he could focus on me. He even went so far as to say that he felt that at this point he had found what he was looking for at least from what he knows so far and he has continued to call me daily. I feel deceived and definitely lied to but am I jumping to conclusions here??

    Anyone? Does anyone have any insight on this because I too would love to know what to do.

    Vickie..I don’t think that age has a thing to do with it though..not at all.

  135.  #135Vickie on March 20, 2010 at 9:31 pm

    Cassandra, like you said about yourself, I’m not Rori either, and I don’t know what she would advise, but I think that I would share with him my feelings about seeing that he is still on the site. If he is still calling you daily, I feel that he is truly interested in you. You need to make sure that he knows that you are interested in him as well, and telling him how you feel about him still being on the site just might be the ticket to showing him you are interested in more than just an online relationship. Lots of guys say on their profile that they are NOT interested in a solely online or texting relationship, indicating to me that they have experienced this with women enough to be annoyed by it. One of the things that we have to be careful about while Circular Dating is making the guy feel that he is being “played.” Many of them have been hurt and cheated on too. We have to find a way to let him know that he is first, even though we are communicating with other guys; that there is no intimacy with those other guys, and that as soon as the two of you decide to become exclusive, you would be done with other guys completely and ready to concentrate your total attention on your relationship together. Rori has said this before, I know.

    I hope this helps a bit. I don’t know all of the details of your relationship with him, but I would definitely let him know how I felt about him being on the site after he said that he was getting off.

    Best wishes to you, Cassandra.


    P.S. Cassandra, remember what Rori has said about guys not liking confrontation or conflict; therefore, some guys will lie to avoid it. To them, it’s a small no-no that is worth it if it helps them avoid what for them is a very painful experience–they call DRAMA! They treat DRAMA as if it is a deadly snake!!! They will do almost anything to avoid it. So when the guys lie, make sure that it’s not because you are pushing them into a corner and igniting their drama phobia! LOL! I’m not condoning lies, mind you. I hate lies too!

  136.  #136Cassandra on March 21, 2010 at 7:05 am

    Good morning Vickie….well at least it is morning here! I am not sure where you are located. hee hee 🙂 Thanks for your response Vickie…I feel appreciative and I do value your input. I love that we get so much loving support here and I have truly missed being here!!

    I did actually check the site last night and he had been on there again yesterday but on the flip side of that coin, he called me first thing this morning to say good morning. He is a high level govt’ contractor that is working on a HUGE project that has him working 17 & 18 hour days.- for right now anyway until this project is done (which will be in July). I do actually believe that because when we do get to speak in the evenings, he is exhausted and I can hear it in his voice. He does call me usually on his way in to work and then again on his way home which has been about 10:15 or later in the evening.

    I felt better this morning because he had just gotten to his lab and he called me before all of his testing began so that at least we got to talk for a minute before his day really got going. That felt special to me. He is working in a lab this weekend testing whatever it is that he is working on and will be there tomorrow as well so he is staying in a hotel there because it is a 2 hour drive from his home. I am so not making any excuses here…just giving you some insight regarding what is going on with him.

    He does for the most part call me daily. I think that Friday was the first day that we have not talked at all but I also know that he has been under the weather and with him working as much as he is right now, I know he is exhausted. Sometimes we just don’t have anything to give someone else and just need to care for ourselves and I do think that was the case on Friday. I feel glad though that he got some rest.

    It made me feel good that you DO think that he is interested. I feel that I have done a good job about letting him know how I feel about him…about our communications and that I feel excited to see him. I will freely admit though that I am working on trust issues of my own. I am not sure if I am ‘over-reacting’ here or if there really is cause for concern. I have personally just found that when a man says that he is going to delete his profile but then does not do it – that is a red flag FOR ME…..ok….a BRIGHT RED FLAG. I have had this happen so many times that now it most definitely makes me want to run the other way. I don’t want to jump to conclusions though either. I do feel that I have tried to make sure that he knows that he is indeed first and I do try also to show him that with my actions and not just my words.

    I am struggling though with the circular dating thing even though I KNOW that it is best for me/ us – as in us girls! LOL I get so confused by the details of different men that I forget who does what, how many children they have etc. I don’t like that. I am still talking to a few different men but my interest in them is waning in a BIG way! They all appear to be good guys but I really do like this one particular man.

    I was glad to know that you WOULD talk to him about his profile still being on the site. I feel odd doing that because I don’t want him to feel attacked or feel that sense of conflict in any way. I felt shocked to know that it was still up there though and I am no longer going to put my own needs, wants and feelings aside for a man. THAT has been one of my biggest goofs in the past and I am really trying to change the behaviors in MY LIFE that are not serving me well. Not taking care of ME….does not serve me well even it is on the emotional side of things.

    I love what you said here Vickie and this is exactly what I do NOT want to do…”So when the guys lie, make sure that it’s not because you are pushing them into a corner and igniting their drama phobia!” That is why I want to learn exactly how and what to say if I decide to bring up the site/ profile thing. I spoke with my Mom about it and she said that I should just let it go because his actions are saying that I am important to him and that over time and likely sooner rather than later, he would delete that damn profile anyway. She may be right but my thing is the principle of the whole thing. Honesty is a HUGE HUGE deal for me and I do not want to build anything on deceit of any kind as it would never last. Maybe I am making a big deal out of nothing…I don’t know. I feel frustrated now.

    Not only that but how in the world would I even bring it up? Wouldn’t he wonder how I knew that his profile was still up there? I have had this happen with other guys and every single one of them got angry that the girlfriend that was on the site even checked them out in looking out for me. Typical defensive behavior. If you are not doing anything wrong then why get upset? I feel frustrated now with all of this and it feels too much for me right now. GRRRR! 🙁 🙁 🙁

    I don’t want to feel like this. I am going to go work out.

    I hope that your day is awesome and that you continue to revel in moving on to better things!!
    Sending you a hug…..

  137.  #137Vickie on March 21, 2010 at 7:28 am

    Good morning, Cassandra. Sweetie, if I met a man who seems to be as consistent as your guy, I would be over the moon. This guy must really be into you. Men don’t waste their time if they are not! Believe me. They move on.

    When my guy told me he was getting off the site, I later visited it to “copy” his photo from the site so that I could check it out every now and then. LOL! So it was then that I saw that he really hadn’t been on the site any more. You could do this too, and tell your guy what you did, and why you did it. I think he would be flattered! This would open up the door to bringing up the issue. However, I’m beginning to think like your mom, now. You have got to work on that trust issue because until you do, you will not be happy with any man, Cassandra. It is so easy to misinterpret a man’s actions as those of someone who is cheating, etc. when he isn’t doing anything of the kind. If you have trust issues, your vibes are going to “speak” to that, and he will be able to tell, especially when you are together. Also, your trust issues will make you feel clingy and unsure of yourself. You must get this in check.

    I was once like you. I feel now though that I have this under control. I am able to give the man the benefit of the doubt. Yes, men will lie and cheat, but the man who is for you will not cheat on you–unless you push him to do so. You must gain your confidence in yourself. You ARE capable of finding real love. There ARE men out there who WILL want to be with you and ONLY you. You just might have found him already. Don’t blow this. It isn’t easy to find, Cassandra.

    One online male friend and I joked about how flattering/ego-building it is to get emails/flirts from the opposite sex, even though you may not be interested in any of them. This is normal. Perhaps this is all that your guy is doing. He checks his emails out of curiosity to see what someone of the opposite sex has said to him. Men like attention and SO do women! It doesn’t mean that the men, nor the women, for that matter, plan to reciprocate. It’s just a good ego builder. Men just happen to need their egos built more often then we do! It is a natural part of who they are.

    Remember though as you build that ego not to come off as a chaser. You must remain in the position of the Siren and allow him to come to you–to jump overboard and visit YOUR island. You must not swim out to HIS boat, in other words. Get my meaning? And don’t get too sappy with compliments either. It’s a fine line that you must walk. Rori, more so than I, can tell you how to walk that line.

    Take care, Cass. Hope you had a great workout!


  138.  #138Vickie on March 21, 2010 at 8:07 am

    Oh, I forgot to say, Cassandra, I’m in North Central Florida. It’s lovely here, but it has been raining slightly. However, it is so obvious that spring is in the air! “April Showers Bring May Flowers.” …..and possibly a little romance, too?! Awesome!

    One more thing. I understand that you don’t particularly want to Circular Date because you are so into your guy. That’s okay. Circular Dating doesn’t mean that you have to do this in a romantic sense, just that you remain AVAILABLE–available to smiles, looks, conversation, flirtation, etc. from other men. Nor does it mean that your “date” has to be in person.

    Just today, I chatted online with a new guy who didn’t even have a photo posted, something I don’t usually do. He contacted me about something he read in my profile. It showed that at least he had taken the time to READ my profile; most don’t bother! So I checked out his profile quickly, and it was obvious that he was intelligent, so I answered his email. His conversation was great, and we continued emailing back and forth. We never even went to the IM stage. He and I both were content to stick with emailinjg. Even after I said goodbye to him and left the site, he has sent me several offline messages, which I will read later. He’s having to abide by MY time frame! I DECIDED how long we talked, not him. I’m in charge of this “new” friendship/relationship.

    It’s very empowering, Cassandra, and very flattering too, that he is still thinking of me when I’m not online anymore! You can do this, Cassandra; this is really all there is to Circular Dating; it doesn’t have to be with a romantic interest. I use it to “practice” with guys. I get to see just how far I can push the limits, just how much a guy will take and still come back for more. I’m not rude or anything, but I’m able to express myself without the fear of scaring him off or worrying about his opinion of me because we will probably never meet anyway! I’ve learned a lot about guys this way; and I’ve still got a lot TO learn! LOL!

    Take care, sweetie.


  139.  #139Lucy on March 21, 2010 at 10:15 am

    Cass, I’ve been following this convo a little bit and would like to add something:

    If he said he was planning to take down his profile and didn’t, that is not necessarily a LIE. He may have CHANGED HIS PLANS for any number of reasons.

    For example, I may tell my hungry teenage son that I am going to the grocery store today. But then I may get involved in other things and decide to go tomorrow instead. I didn’t lie, I simply changed my plans.

    On the other hand, if he told you he actually DID take down his profile but didn’t, then it’s a lie. And that would be a pretty stupid thing to actually lie about, because everyone knows how easy it is to check up on. So why bother to lie about it?

    If he simply changed his plans or didn’t get around to it yet, etc, then addressing the issue with him will look clingy and stalkerish. And that will likely turn him off.

    If it were me, I would wait, and as Vickie said, try to work through your trust issues (I know how difficult they are — I’ve had to work through my own!) I would allow myself to fully FEEL the fear and anxiety you experience around this, without trying to sedate it or distract myself from it — the only way out is THROUGH. Feel it to heal it.

    And I agree about circular dating — it is hard for me to keep track of the guys’ info in my head! I CD’d for about six months, and am now backing out of it for awhile because it just got too complicated. I still have one long-distance guy that I haven’t met yet, and he is giving me all the “practice” I need with ALL my issues and processes — including not getting too attached. And I am “dating myself” as they say — doing things with friends and by myself, and pursuing my own interests, goals, and dreams. Becoming more vibrant and alive. And I still have an online profile where I get emails and/or winks every day and get to see if there is anyone I am interested in enough to put up with the hassle. (That helps keep me from putting all my eggs in one basket with the LD guy! I just like him so much, and everyone else so far pales in comparison.)

    Just my two cents. 🙂


  140.  #140Daria on March 21, 2010 at 11:47 am

    What wait — i feel triggered by the don’t blow it.

    Cassandra – the babystep here is about being honest and sharing your feelings, and also standing up to yourself

    there is NO WAY you can blow it. You WILL have your happily ever after even if you shoot this man away witha gun. There will be SO MANY men who want you.

    I would DEFINITELY want to address something taht bothers me like this with him. I would want to be able to talk about Anything with my man.

    So that is what I would do here.

    As far as thinking, well… we know how thinking goes… but my thinking says well his may expire at a different tiem, or he may have changed his mind about taking it down.

    After all if it’s the honesty thing, then he can just tell you, oh i changed my mind about taking it donw.

    I would tell him i feel apprehensive because I noticed a pattern in the past between men who say they would and don’t, and general lying, and that i like him and i feel concerned here, and what does he think?

  141.  #141Daria on March 21, 2010 at 11:54 am

    I feel triggered –

    the way I understand it from Rori, Circular Dating is a MUST. We don’t close down our options until a man claims us FOR MARRIAGE.

    Closing down options is like acting married before actual marriage and will push real marriage away in the disatance…

    It’s like we’re too needy to wait for the real thing so we substitute with in between relationships that Look like the real thing. But if it were real, it WOULD BE REAL.

  142.  #142Vickie on March 21, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Great comments Lucy, and you too Daria. But Daria, I meant don’t blow it by being overly suspicious. Lack of trust can and will destroy any relationship we begin. At some point, we must trust until, as Lucy said, the person is caught in an outright lie, not one that just seems to be a lie. She hasn’t heard his story yet as to why his profile is still on the site. Lack of trust is a relationship killer no matter how you look at it. If one of the parties is not trustworthy, then the relationship is doomed, without change; if one of the parties is not trust-ing, then the relationship is also doomed, without change. Trust is of the essence here.


  143.  #143Daria on March 21, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    Vickie – I think the best way to have trust is to be vulnerable and share that we feel untrusting with our partners… Cassandra doesn’t yet know this man very well so there isn’t much to trust him on, just trust in herself and the universe

  144.  #144Lucy on March 21, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    To me, and to a lot of guys I know, the need to confront about the online profile thing (in this situation) is “like acting married before actual marriage and will push real marriage away in the distance…”

    The absence of circular dating is not the same as “closing down options.” I feel completely open to meeting another man who is right for me, and definitely have my eyes open for such a man.

    However, for now at least, I have more enjoyable, rewarding, and important things to do with my life than go on endless dates with men who don’t appeal to me and who end up falling for me.

    My LD guy, aka TN man, aka the man I adore, is someone I am very happy to have in my life, and he is not a “substitute” for anything because he (like all of us) is one-of-a-kind. We love each other unconditionally – and THAT is the most wonderful, freeing feeling in the world.

    It is actually the opposite of “needy” — i.e., I don’t really need anything from him more than what he is giving me, and I also don’t need to be in a hurry to find another guy. I am happy with my life and I love myself. I am following my intuition, which has never steered me wrong, ever.

    Rori’s Feeling Messages have been my biggest turn-around — they have taught me how to relate to men in a much healthier way. For me, they have made the difference between drawing men in and pushing them away.

    Leaning Back has also helped a great deal, although I am also learning to follow my intuition as to those RARE times when NOT leaning back is the way to go.

    Having a mindset of non-attachment is, for me, as effective as literally circular dating (without the drain on time, energy, and emotions). That said, my six month period of CD was DEFINITELY worthwhile, as it increased my self-esteem, unearthed the “issues” that I needed to work through, and taught me how to remain non-attached to the outcome.

    And I will CD again if I feel the need at a later time.


  145.  #145Daria on March 21, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    CD is therapy and the issues are worked out WHILE doing CD. Drain on energy and emotions shows that theres a lot to practice, to lead to an openess and enjoyment of being in the presence of a man, even one that we are not attracted to… it’s great practice her to speak our truth, and that opens up intimacy

    I feel extremely triggered. A long distance man is a long distance man and it’s not a real relationship until it becomes non long distance.

    Hello, I just married a man across the world, and we never have seen each other, we have a wonderful marriage…

    this is not real

    substitute relationship for marriage.

    Thats happily ever after, marriage or a relationship like marriage.

    I feel so triggered. I want all sirens to have real and happy relationships…

  146.  #146Vickie on March 21, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    I can agree with that, Daria. But to do that, she’s going to appear to have double-standards; She’s worried about him still being on the site when she is still on it herself. If he isn’t dimwitted, he’s going to think that too. Even when we don’t know a person, we still have to trust them—that first date, for instance. Who’s to say he isn’t a freak! Trust is still of the essence.

  147.  #147Vickie on March 21, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    That is AWESOME Lucy. I am sooooo FEELING your happy energy, girl. If it’s working, stick to it, honey! I want to be just like you “when I grow up!” LOL.


  148.  #148Daria on March 21, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    Vickie – we DO have double standards.

    We are the woman. We circular date because we are the prize, and he competes with other men to pursue us.

    just like we don’t bring him flowers on a date – double standard

  149.  #149Tina on March 21, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    My two cents on trust, I *thought trust (a feeling) was built on a pattern of history within a relationship, there isnt enough history to feel trust, I mean as far as relationships go. I can say “I feel mistrust” I am in fact trusting my feelings by saying “I feel mistrust” . I also thought trust was given to HIM based on his actions.

  150.  #150Daria on March 21, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    Tina yes!

  151.  #151Daria on March 21, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    On first dates we are trusting ourselves… to have boundaries… then we can open up and start to trust him based on his actions…

    like rori says its not about trusting him, but trusting ourselves

  152.  #152Cassandra on March 21, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Sirens….Wow! I feel honored and so appreciative of all of the input here. Thank you. I feel special!! Each one of you have given me something to think about and to explore what feels right to me and I feel so so thankful for that!!

    Just to clarify though….I am NOT still on the site. It was actually a girlfriend of mine that is on the same site and she was the one that saw that he was still on there and forwarded that info to me. I have not been on there for at least the last month or even a little more. It did not feel good to me to be on it anymore but that he nothing to do with him – I had planned on deleting my profile even before he contacted me.

    As far as MY OWN trust issues….I definitely am working on those and trying to be really super aware of what I am feeling at any given moment. I am well aware that they are MY issues though. that in itself is helping. Each time I get into that place where I feel the UN-trusting feelings I try to ask myself what triggered me to feel this way and then feel whatever I am feeling around that….then do something that makes ME feel good to get me back into feeling good again and that will help me let go of any specific outcome. Not to say that I am ignoring the UN-trusting feelings though – they come up for a reason. I do have to say that I don’t feel clingy or needy or really even insecure. I know that my feelings around this are indeed based on my own experience with men that have done this in the past. I don’t want to assume though that he is doing what they have done.

    Lucy…..I can totally see what you are saying about the possibility of him changing his mind. I do feel though that if that was the case that I would have appreciated him telling me that. Perhaps that is an unfair expectation as we are not even a couple but for me….if I had told a guy that I was going to delete my profile so that I could focus on getting to know him and him alone….if I had a change of heart, I would tell him so that this kind of mis-communication did not take place and he would not be wondering and feeling deceived by me. That is what I would do but I am not sure it is fair to expect him to do what I would do and I do know that.

    ‘If he simply changed his plans or didn’t get around to it yet, etc, then addressing the issue with him will look clingy and stalkerish. And that will likely turn him off.’ It very well could be a case where he has not gotten around to it but the fact that he has been on there for whatever reason leads me to believe that that is not the case. I certainly do not want to appear stalkerish!! For sure!! LOL

    My girlfriend told me this morning that he had been on there again yesterday and when she told me that I felt HORRIBLE. It was at that moment that I decided that I do NOT want to know about it anymore. IF a moment presents itself where we are discussing it and I feel comfortable bringing it up or if he brings up what he wants with regard to me then I will simply ask him if it is still up there and if he is still on the site and let him know that I don’t want to have just an online pseudo relationship. I want a REAL relationship. I would let him know that I do feel uncomfortable with his profile still up there if he tells me that it is and then ask him what he thinks.

    Daria…I loved what you said here…..’I would tell him i feel apprehensive because I noticed a pattern in the past between men who say they would and don’t, and general lying, and that i like him and i feel concerned here, and what does he think?’ I will use this if we end up having this conversation. I am definitely circular dating but it does not feel good at all. I am doing it though even though it does not feel good to me. I am hoping that as time goes on it will feel better and that the reason that it doesn’t feel good is that I am stepping OUT of my own comfort zone. I am learning a great deal though so that in itself is a great thing.

    I feel really good about the possibility of having this conversation with him if I decide that I want to do that when he comes here to see me. He has been consistent and that feels great to me. I do want to be able to talk to him about anything at all and this is a PERFECT opportunity!! Isn’t this the perfect practice?? Daria….I am so going to use what you wrote above….is that ok with you? That really helped me so much. I am not going to have this conversation over the phone though as that would not feel right to me.

    Everything that you all shared with me helped me so much….thank you. You Sirens ROCK!!


  153.  #153Tina on March 21, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Lucy, is there a fine line between “fear of intimacy” and “non attachment”? I feel triggered.

  154.  #154Lucy on March 21, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    Tina, I don’t think so. To me, they are completely different. Non-attachment is a choice made out of love and respect for myself; fear of intimacy is a fear that does not serve me.

    There have been times I have pulled back from LD guy because of fear of intimacy — when he really gets close emotionally and triggers things in me because of it (particularly shame)– and I am learning to not pull away, or “cut off” as he calls it.

    There are also times when I deliberately CHOOSE to pull back because I feel myself getting too attached to him, and I just need some time without him in order to get some perspective. (This is similar to what is accomplished by circular dating — but instead of staying non-attached/overly invested by dating other guys, I now spend the time with myself, family, and friends.)

    Maybe “avoiding over-investment” is a more helpful term than “non-attachment.” 🙂


  155.  #155Lucy on March 21, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    Vickie, thanks so much for the encouragement- it means a lot!

    I just celebrated one year being cancer-free, and let me tell you, that scare last year was the motivation I needed to find happiness NOW instead of waiting to get everything I want in order to be happy.


  156.  #156Tina on March 21, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    Shame sucks! I love my fear of intimacy! I dont think I’m better than anyone, but I do feel worthy! I”m a wonderful gift, I”m a wonderful gift!

  157.  #157Tina on March 21, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    Lucy, that’s great news! I feel so happy to hear that you are cancer free!

  158.  #158Vickie on March 21, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    Wow, Lucy! You truly are an amazing woman! I feel so awestruck by you right now. Beautiful, strong, brave, confident! You are my hero, honey! I feel so humbled by you. I also feel honored to have someone of your calibre here on this blog, giving encouragement to each of us. You truly are a goddess. Blessings, blessings, blessings!


  159.  #159Lucy on March 21, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    Daria, some issues don’t need CD in order to be worked out — they can be worked out with family, friends, HBR, ECP, etc. as well as with one guy who ya really like. 🙂

    The drain on energy and emotions doesn’t come from having a lot to practice. My energy is somewhat limited because of having gone through cancer and now being without some of my organs — I would rather spend that precious energy on people and things that add to my vitality and creativity. I do enjoy being in the presence of men, including ones I don’t feel attracted to, but I get tired of THEIR drama. One guy I dated, we both wanted to just be friends, and that has worked out very well (he recently went with me to a concert when I won free tix. Fun! :)) But all the others just fall for me, and I don’t want to just keep “practicing” telling guys I’m not in love with them. I realized my lesson in all that was this (for ME): stop going out with guys you know you’re not gonna fall in love with! Learned it!

    I have enough drama to work through with my 1 teen and 2 college-aged kids — they do a great job mirroring my issues, being messengers, and giving me practice!

    I am not calling what I have with this guy a “relationship” any more, because in this forum, “relationship” has a more limited definition, and that’s fine. Now I don’t call it anything. Lol. He is simply a guy I enjoy communicating with. Nothing more. I FEEL GOOD when we are in touch with each other, and I FEEL GOOD when I think about him and all the things I have learned from him and how he has healed so much in my life with his wisdom, playfulness, and unconditional love. Why would I give up something that makes me feel good like that and is good FOR me as well? As I said, I am completely open to meeting another guy while I continue connecting with this one. So, nothing is lost at all. I am very happy.

    No, I do not have my “happy ever after” yet, but I am still happy! And I embrace ALL the love that comes into my life, whether it is from my children, my friends, my sister, my parents, God, a stranger in the grocery store, women online whom I have never met, or a MAN whom I have never met.

    Here is one of my favorite quotes: “Whenever you see love coming, welcome it with open arms and let it enter into you. People will ask, ‘Are you in love?’ You will say, ‘No, love is in me.'” (unknown)

    I let his love, along with the love of others, enter into me. I have learned to do this only in the past year

    And don’t worry, Daria, I won’t marry him without meeting him first. Lol.

    Unfortunately, I have seen too many marriages that end up being less “real” than my non-relationship with him. THAT is what makes ME feel sad.

  160.  #160Lucy on March 21, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    Oh, Vickie, thanks! But I feel a little uncomfortable with all that praise! All the women on here are so wonderful, helpful, and encouraging — heroes, one and all, because they ALL take what life throws at them and keep going, learning, growing, even if it’s baby steps.

    So much of how I am growing and what I am learning comes from all the amazing women on here — reading their stories, seeing what works and doesn’t work, triggering and getting triggered. This blog has been indispensable in learning the things I have learned and braving the things in relationships that I have braved!

    And Daria, one thing I really admire about you in particular is that you are incredibly RESILIENT! I have seen not only on this blog, but elsewhere, where you have gotten some very tough things thrown at you by other people — and I have watched you process through it, squeezing every possible ounce of learning out of it, and then letting go of whatever is the other person’s stuff. You just keep bouncing back. And you are never afraid to be yourself (or if you ARE afraid, you don’t let that fear stop you!) and you keep speaking up, even if you know people might react negatively. I admire you very much!


  161.  #161Vickie on March 21, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    Oh my gosh, Lucy. This post just brings me to tears of joy. You are such an awesome person! And your wisdom is unsurpassed! I’m so glad that you are on this site!


  162.  #162Vickie on March 21, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    Never feel unworthy of praise, Lucy. This is your spotlight today. Tomorrow, it might be someone else’s. Just bask in it and know that you are appreciated and that your words of wisdom and love are touching the lives of women who really need to hear what you have to say! I FEEL so appreciative of someone who takes the time out to share and to encourage others in such a wonderful way. Such a gift is from God and is to be shared! You are doing His will when you share with us, and you are spreading His love to the “far corners.” I appreciate your humbleness, though, which makes you even more amazing—because you don’t even REALIZE your “amazingness!” LOL! It’s just a natural part of who you are. Right now, what you are saying touches me, and I want you to know that. Daria, Cassandra, Tina, Dorothea, Paula (and I’m I’ve probably left some names out) have posted some wonderful advice here as well. But today, YOUR posts are the ones that speak to my need. So get used to it, Lucy. You are MAR-VE-LOUS, and you just have to live with it! LOL! Love ya, girl.


  163.  #163Daria on March 21, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    Lucy I feel glad that you are practicing and being happy. I am happy too.

    And I still feel tightened up in my tummy hearing what you say about Circular Dating, and not dating men you won’t fall in love with. I feel breath out and wall in front of my eyes.


    I feel certain that you will get to your happily ever after taking any path as long as you are committed to loving you.

    For me CD has given me opportunities to meet many men I won’t fall in love wiht, and I’ve had to practice repeating certain boundaries, and the triggers on the boundaries started melting and healing. That is why I think even repeating “im not feeling that spark” over and over would be healing.

    As long as a Goddess is committed to herself, I think she will get to her happily ever after even hiding in a cave in the mountains. Even if that means that after awhile she herself will feel pulled to and decide to come out of the cave.

  164.  #164Daria on March 21, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    Oh my gosh Lucy I just read the last post where you addressed me! yay I feel so seen… thank you… im feeling smily and turning red here… hehehe yayyyy!!!


  165.  #165Daria on March 21, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    OMg I cant believe you are speaking about me! but you are!!! omgosh this feels wonderful!!!

  166.  #166Daria on March 21, 2010 at 8:31 pm

    Cassandra of course you can use that speech.

    I personally would say it ASAP on the phone because I know that NOT speaking about it would make my anxiety grow and it would feel way dispropportionately intense to me by the time I did get to bring it up. I feel better taking babysteps to speak on my feelings as they come up.

    I would feel pretty certain that it is likely that this can feel better quickly in a couple of words so I wouldn’t want to “hold it in.”

    What do you think?

  167.  #167Cassandra on March 23, 2010 at 5:16 am

    Sorry Sirens….got a little busy and couldn’t get back here until now…..

    Lucy….WOW! I want to congratulate you on beating the cancer dragon!! That is a HUGE deal and I feel so happy for you!!

    Tina…I liked what you wrote about trust. I have actually been tossing that trust thing around in my own head in trying to work thru my own trust issues.

    I have been asking myself what how trust works for ME…..meaning do you start off trusting someone and then it gets taken away should they prove UNtrustworthy? OR is it built over time and consistency in THEIR actions? I am a very trusting person by nature so I have always gone about things with starting off trusting and then if they prove UNtrustworthy… gets torn down for THEM to rebuild should they choose to do so. Although I admittedly have accepted behaviors that have been UNtrustworthy in the past and am not doing that anymore as I finally know and FEEL more than anything that I DO deserve better than that!! YAY! That feels good to me! I feel that perhaps I need to shift into the ‘trust is built over time and consistency’ thing instead of being so trusting right off the bat but that is hard for me because I am kind of wired that way. LOL

    Daria….thank you so much for sharing your feeling message with me!! I am sooooo going to use it! For some reason, I have felt a shift in my own reaction to all of this with him still being on the site and everything. He has been so crazy busy with work – I do trust that that is true because for one thing he is completely exhausted and I can literally hear it in his voice. He called me first thing this morning before he even got on base to go to his lab and apologized for not being able to call me as he had said that he would. He has not been getting out of the lab until super late….as in 12:00am late and he said that he did not want to call me that late. He then asked me if he could fly ME out to Tucson where he will be for the next month or so testing this project that he has been working on. He told me that he does not want to wait to see me until he gets back from there and asked me if he could fly me out there to see him. I do know that his schedule has been beyond crazy and once he gets back from Tucson, he will be home for about a month and then will be heading over to Afghanistan for 40-60 days. 🙁 That feels awful for me but he set me up on skype so that we can still talk and do our webcam talks while he is over there.

    Vickie…I have to admit Love that you are right in that he has been extremely consistent. I am not sure that I have experienced this kind of consistency before for longer than a month or so and it feels great. YAY!!

    I have felt my anxieties over him still being on the site fade over the last 24 hours and that feels good. For right now, I am going to say nothing about it however, if I end up going to Tucson, I may bring it up there because Daria…what you said about ‘holding it in’… so right on for me too. I want to get better at speaking on my feelings as they come up – like you mentioned that you do. For me, that would feel right… would feel more authentic for me and that feels good to me. I feel really excited about the possibility of going to Tucson so we will see what happens. It felt great to hear from him first thing this morning too.

    Thank you so much Sirens for all of your input and support. Each one of you is such a gift to the island and to the world in general. XOXOXO


  168.  #168Polli on March 23, 2010 at 6:43 am

    Hello again everyone,
    I wrote early on (my first time) at the beginning of this topic. I was told by Rori that what I have is not a real relationship because we have not met in person. I know that is true. As I stated then he and I had been in an online sexual relationship for a couple of months. I am ashamed to even say it. And Rori made me feel even more ashamed when she said I should sell my online services because it is very lucatrive, instead of giving them to this man for free. I had known him for several years, we have to talk to each other in the course of our jobs. But we did not make contact out of work until three months ago. The very first night we got involved because i had long had a crush on him and it just sort of happened. The next day I was sort of upset and ashamed. This was not something I ever imagined myself getting involved in. But I quickly overcame any doubts. He was very charming, and it was not just about the sex. I felt like we had a real connection. And before I knew it i felt love for him. I WISH I had known about this site before, I would have no doubt done things differently. We have had our ups and downs…..If we had not, i would have never found my way to this site. Since my first post I have been leaning back. Letting him do all the leaning forward. So after months of constant almost daily contact he suddenly stopped. No explanation. He was sick then he was depressed over a friend being very ill to the point of almost dying. I found this out later. For the first seven days I heard practically nothing from him. Then a little more…..emails and a couple of very short chats. And just when I felt like he was getting back to normal, and hinting that we would be getting together soon…..still nothing. So I got it in my mind that he was chatting with someone else. I got insecure and jealous. So i very nicely (I thought) wrote him an email…….full of feeling messages. I did not get the desired result. I got maybe some anger, some frustration. He does not like drama…..he said we view friendship differently apparently. that he could not be what i want…..because it is long distance……..etc etc etc. (How does he know what i want?).
    he never once indicated that it was maybe wrong of him to stop talking to me with no explanation. I could have dealt with it just fine if he had said he was not contacting me because he was bummed out or whatever. So anyway he made it seem like maybe we should give up our friendship…….and this sent me into panic mode. I appologized and I grovelled and I basically begged, sort of. He told me we are friends….”of course we are friends”….but then it went down hill from there and he abruptly said he needed to go. So I don’t know where I stand now. I was disgusted with myself though so I wrote him this morning telling him that I am sickend over how I acted that I should not beg someone to be my friend ever. And it is up to him whether we are still friends or not. I could not leave him with that weak and pathetic memory of me. I probably made things even worse. I will not contact him again. I have learned that much on this site. I am leaning back about as far as possible. Like I was at first when he stopped contacting me. I wish like crazy I had not stopped. He would at least maybe respect me more. I guess my question is, what now? I am hurting so much at the thought that he may be out of my life forever. I do love him but I am trying not to be in love with him. I will miss him terribly because he has such a great personality…..and actually treated me great except for pushing me away like this time. He has done it before a few times too. I wish i did not care about him—did not have this feeling of loss, of emptiness…but i do. I guess my question is what do i do now? how do i deal with him at work when we HAVE to talk on the phone? And how do i get thru all this pain and fear and stuff that I am feeling now? Thanks for any help you can give me. I hate myself so much right now for getting myself into this pit.

  169.  #169Vickie on March 23, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    Cassandra, your excitement is contagious! I feel so exhilerated myself because of YOUR exhileration! LOL!!! I’m so pleased for you. Just enjoy the attention because you, honey, deserve it, and DON”T YOU FORGET IT! GOT IT? LOL! Use your time in Tuscon to your advantage. If you feel that you need to talk with him about it, follow your instincts–with discretion and tact, of course. God gave us women those instincts for a reason. Enjoy yourself, sweetie.

    Take care,

  170.  #170Cassandra on March 23, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    Vickie….thank you so much for your post. It felt wonderful to have someone share in the joy that I felt around him asking to fly me there. This may be a silly question…I don’t know but do you think I should go?

    I have a girlfriend that told me today that she feels that it is totally inappropriate for a lady to allow a man that she has never met to fly her anywhere to see him without first having to come to see her on HER turf. She also said that a REAL gentleman would never allow that much less ask. I can totally see what she is saying in some ways but I would have my own hotel room and the initial plan was for him to come here this coming weekend but then his work/ meeting schedule totally changed that….hence him asking me to go there to Tucson and him saying that he does not want to wait until he gets back from there in late April for us to meet in person.

    I would LOVE to go and I do feel excited about the possibility but I also do NOT want to send the wrong message. I don’t want to send the message that he does not have to make the effort to come here too. I don’t feel that that is at all the case though… a matter of fact, I feel that he IS Making the effort to see me by coming up with a ‘plan B’ so that we can see one another.

    What are your thoughts on this Sirens?? I really do like this man so I don’t want to send any wrong messages. I do feel excited about the possibility of going there though. Your thoughts???


  171.  #171Cassandra on March 23, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    Polli…I don’t know the full story but from what I read in your last post….I feel that you deserve so much better than this man. It felt horrible to read that you feel hate for yourself and I felt sad reading that. I have felt that same fear, anxiety and panic and I am willing to guess that most of the sirens here have felt those same things at one time or another……I feel happy that you are here and learning Rori’s tools. It can get better!!

    I would try to take your focus off of him and put it back on YOU and do something that makes YOU feel good about you. It will feel so much better and help you to take care of you. What Rori teaches is true to the core. I don’t know if you followed my story when I first came here over a year ago but I never imagined that I would not want my ex when he did come crawling back. Not only do I no longer want him but I am finding that when a man treats me in a manner that does not feel good to me or he disappears for whatever the reason…..when he does come back and they almost always do….it is ME who no longer wants him.

    I wish I could hug you. I send you one here though!! It would feel wonderful to read that you have shifted your energy back on to you and are doing things to make you feel good and happy.

  172.  #172Vickie on March 23, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    Cassandra, I can’t see how this is an insult to you, as your friend suggests. To me, what would be an insult is for him to ask you to come to see him but not even offer to pay for the flight! In the real world, I don’t see anything wrong with you taking him up on his offer. To me, the fact that he wants you to visit him on his own turf tells me that he must not have anything to hide. Guys who always want to visit you but don’t allow you to visit them for some reason or another probably does have something to hide–like a girlfriend or wife! When you do go, though, take notice of whether or not he introduces you to his friends, takes you out to public places, and whether he answers his phone in your presence. A man’s actions in these cases can be telltale signs of whether or not he has something or someONE to hide!

    So Cassandra, in my opinion, you should go for it! If it were me, I would be on that plane in a heart beat and dare anyone to try to stop me! LOL!!! But you should also take every precaution to be safe, like tell friends/family where you are, and even call one of them in his presence; and have one of them call you as well. Not that you have anything to worry about, but you can never be too care, in my opinion. If he is booking your hotel, make sure to get the information from him before you leave for Tuscon, and then you call the hotel yourself to verify that you are actually booked–singley. If he stays in the hotel as well, and you never see his home, I think you have reason to be suspicious! I’m probably sounding like the concerned mom here, Cassandra, but I can’t help it. I’m not a mom, but I have nieces that I would say the same thing to! LOL!

    Let me know what you decide to do. Take care.


  173.  #173Daria on March 23, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    Cassandra what an adventure – about the Tucson trip.

    and Goddess you sound so strong and good. you have come a long way as have i. i no longer feel worried about u and this feels like a relief. omgosh.. we are rori poster Goddesses for how far we’ve come

  174.  #174Lucy on March 23, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    Cassie, I agree with Daria and Vickie — I would totally GO!! Like Daria said, it will be an ADVENTURE — and adventures are so exciting and fun and we can learn so much through them. I would hold the idea of “adventure” in my head and heart the whole time in order to avoid investing too much emotionally in the guy, especially since you have no idea what the chemistry will be like when you meet in person. If it is simply an adventure for you, where you are also getting the chance to meet an interesting man, then you won’t have specific expectations and you can just go and have FUN – no matter what happens between you. If he senses your attitude of adventure, independence, fun, and freedom, he will find that attractive and it will offset any sense that you are making it “easy” for him by traveling there. I would be light and breezy about it.

    That said, the only thing that would hold me back is if my intuition was telling me no.

    It is looking like I may actually be in a very similar situation soon, and, if so, I will do exactly what I have said here! 🙂

    I feel excited for you!


  175.  #175Vickie on March 23, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    Great advice to Cassandra, Lucy! I love it! I’m feeling the positive vibes in the air! Can it be spring fever? LOL! Come to think of it, I am getting twice as many emails from guys on the dating site. I even received an email from a guy whom I hadn’t heard from in 7 mos.!!! I had to think really hard to remember who he was! ….had forgotten all about him! Yes, yes… I think that’s it. Spring is in the air!!! Can LOVE be following in it’s wake? Let’s enjoy it…………..whatEVER it is!

    Feeling SOOOOO po-si-tive!


  176.  #176Bliss on March 23, 2010 at 4:32 pm

    I am feeling very flat today

    I just wrote this long winded pathetic story about why HE called me at work yesterday to say he considering moving out.

    I deleted it.

    Just wanted to say Hi to you all.

    H i !!!1

  177.  #177Polli on March 23, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    Thanks for your words…..I am truly working on it….I am so grateful that I found Rori University as i like to think of it….i study here all the time…..I have learned alot here from everyone, I just wish I had found it BEFORE………maybe this not a real relationship can become real someday and maybe not, but either way I am going to be just fine. I had my emotional break down today-cried it all out…..from past experience i know once i get down that low, i then get strong, and pull myself up and go on…..
    He wrote me a sweet email earlier…….saying he wants me to stay his friend….I will for now, but I am going to be lying down in that boat!!!!

    I hope your trip turns out to be wonderful and everything you would like it to be.

  178.  #178Cassandra on March 24, 2010 at 6:49 am

    Vickie….thank you SO MUCH for your input!! I feel so so appreciative of that!! It feels wonderful to know that you just want me to be safe! Thanks Vickie!

    Just so you know….he does not live in Tucson. He actually lives in the city where I moved here from! How ironic is that?! LOL He will be in Tucson for a month doing some testing on whatever it is that he is working on so he will indeed be staying in the same hotel but he does not have a home or anything there. That just happens to be where the testing site is. As far as meeting his friends….the only people that he will know there too are his team. He is the project manager for the whole thing so I am quite sure that we would not be spending any time with his work team. I do feel really excited about this!!

    Daria….your post made me cry! I so know what you mean though about how far we have come. I remember when both you and I first got on here at the very start of the blog and how I could not see the situation that I was in at that time for the hellish reality that it was… for so long. Your support has meant the world to me and I feel so close to you and so proud of you too! You are such an inspiration to me and to so many others!! Thank you for being worried about me…..reading that made me feel special and it makes me feel wonderful to know that you care like that…You are a very special young woman and a true gift to this world Daria!! I look back at where I was a year ago even and sometimes just cry with joy at how far I really have come. I promised myself that I would never ever go back to something like that ever. No one had ever taught me though to listen to MY OWN feelings about things. I never knew that I was supposed to go by that! Gosh had I known that I would have made so many decisions completely differently than I did but I feel happy, thankful and so grateful for the things that I have learned here not only from Rori but from all of you as well. It really has changed my entire life. I feel so happy that your has changed so much as well….all for the better!! YAY!! 🙂

    Lucy, thank you too for your awesome input!! I feel so appreciative of that. I love what you said about focusing on this whole thing being an adventure. THIS is likely one of the things that I have the hardest time with because I can feel that my emotions are already involved with this man. Part of that feels exciting but then on the other hand the other part feels nervous about that because from our conversations, I really do like him as much as I am able at this point. For some odd reason, I have no worries at all about whether or not we would have chemistry when when we meet in person. I really enjoy his company on the phone and even when we get on the web cams – it is kind of like being in person. We have both said that we have no doubts that the chemistry will indeed be there and I am looking forward to seeing him in person. THIS is where it gets tough for me in the not having expectations part. I feel it so hard to not have expectations when you really like someone. I want to do exactly as you said though and just go and have fun and enjoy our time together. We laugh all the time on the phone so I know that no matter what happens, we will have fun. I am getting super excited Sirens!! We are going to iron out the details later on this evening and I will definitely keep you updated for sure!

    Oh…one other thing…I am really not worried at all about him being a nut because he is not only a top level gov’t contractor with the highest level of clearance that you can get (he has to have his ‘stuff’ in order in order to maintain that level of clearance), he is also retired CIA. He could not afford to do anything stupid or he would lose his entire career. That in itself makes me feel safer.

    Well Sirens…it looks like I am going to Tucson!! I feel excited not like a little girl at Christmas!! 🙂

    Love to all….

  179.  #179Vickie on March 24, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    Cass, that’s great! Up, Up, and Away! Enjoy! Keep us posted.


  180.  #180Michelle on April 9, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    Hi Ladies!

    It’s been a while since I have looked on this site, but today I was doing some reading and I wanted to share some insight I gained from a while back when a guy I was very in to, just “poof” disappeared on me.. I hope it is helpful..and if not, I feel good venting a little about my thoughts! 🙂

    I have had more than one guy just disappear on me. It made me feel like I wasn’t enough. I put so much energy into solving the mystery of the disappearing man, I was so tempted to make excuses because I felt so hurt and angry. In every situation I wanted to contact them again (email, text, call…etc.).I told myself that it was ok for many reasons. For one, I wanted to check on them. Part of me felt maybe something was wrong (again, making excuses). Part of me (the angry part) wanted to fuss, tell them how upset they made me and vent about my feelings….you know the whole “how could you!?” and then the biggest part of me wanted answers, some sort of explaination. I told myself I wanted “closure”. And then (FINALLY) with the last guy it happened with….it hit me…..

    (I feel embarrassed that this happened more than once!!)

    Bottom line…I could email him if I wanted to give him yet ANOTHER opportunity to reject me. Could there have been something wrong with him? Sure. But the chances are slim that he wouldn’t want to let me know something was up if he really cared. I realized that no answer…was my answer. So then theres the letting him have it that I wanted to do….and once again yes I could have done that as well. But you know, I’m pretty positive that he knows I would be and am pissed. I didn’t want to let him get away with it….but I realized that nothing I could possibly say to him would be “news” to him. He may be a butt, but hes probably not an idiot. He is aware of his own actions….what he may not be aware of is how little his actions mean to me, which I can show him by not wasting any of my time on him…..

    So all of that made sense…but I still wanted answers. The thing I finally got was that I had the answers. I just wanted them from him because I thought somehow it would make me feel better. But really, what could he possibly say that would make me say, “OH! That’s why he left without a word and vanished into thin air!”……NOTHING. Nothing he could have said would have satisfied me, at least nothing would have satisfied me without ME accepting something less than I deserve. He could come up with any excuse, something that the old me would have accepted and told myself some story about how he cared even though he did this. But now I know there is no excuse for someone doing that to me.

  181.  #181Vickie Roberts on April 9, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Hi Michelle,

    That’s an awesome awakening you had there! You are so right-on with your feelings. One thing, though. You should not feel embarrassed about having more than one guy just disappear; you should feel grateful because they obviously were emotionally immature! Being involved with an emotionally immature man would have been a rollercoaster ride that never stopped to let you off! If you like rollercoasters, the rides can be awesome, but even an awesome ride would become a nightmare if it continued to go on and on and on….. Just thank your lucky stars because they actually did you a favor! In my recent case, I also wondered why the guy disappeared. But I knew that there were several reasons for it, any of which could have been the answer; and all of which meant that he was not emotionally available nor emotionally capable of being in a relationship. My point was proven when I learned that he had been married 3 times already! Red flag; flashing red lights; “Do Not Enter” signs; Hazardous Waste Warning!!! Take your pick. Any of them means either approach with caution or stay the heck away! LOL! The important thing is that we learn from the lesson, and store what we learned in a safe place where it will be available as a “warning sign” when we are faced with it again.

    You are amazing, Michelle!


  182.  #182Maria on April 21, 2010 at 7:38 am

    hi everyone, I’m writting because i need some advice. I’ve been on a long distance relationship for almost two years. We met each other on a plane and the rest its history, he came visit me after 4 months of talking texting, facebooking etc. we officially started dating hoping that after my graduation we would take a step foward. Time came and I had to choose between living to Miami or Dallas ( where he lives) I chose miami because I wouldn’t live my life behind for a boyfriend unless I had a ring on me. Due to legal issues ( international student) I was offered a Working visa in Miami, as well as in Dallas. He wanted me to go to Dallas, but I refused because I wanted to leave to Dallas but been sure that we were oficial. His pressure for me living to Dallas and my pressure towards him for getting married just made everything worse. he decided to take a break after so many fights, its been a month and he hasn’t even texted me. I know i must move one and not expect for him to come back… Im in the process, but i cant get him out of my mind… finally I’m starting to focus on different things so I can look at my future differently, but deep down i still have faith he’ll come back and i need to move on. What can I do, how should I act, what helps us move on?

  183.  #183Rori Raye on April 21, 2010 at 9:56 am

    Maria, Welcome, and there’s no way you can make this happen without being in the same city. If he can’t spend enough time in Miami, or you in Dallas (at least 1/2 a year, I would think) – there is nothing to be done. I’m not exactly sure why you chose Miami if you were offered a working visa in Dallas, also (did I misunderstand?) – but perhaps you don’t really want him? Love, Rori

  184.  #184Maria on April 21, 2010 at 7:47 pm

    I do want him more than anything in the world, and I came to figure that after we broke up. But this is exactly what I didnt want if I were to go there, to be there and then him leaving me for any reason, and I would be the one all alone over there. Should I call him? tell him I”m sorry or what? I can still move to Dallas in a few months when my visa process is done. But he didn’t want to wait and I wasn’t prepare to take that step at that moment.

  185.  #185Michelle on April 23, 2010 at 11:18 am

    I just wanted to share my long-distance meeting thats coming up tomorrow!

    One of the guys in my circle that I met online is coming to my town this weekend for our first date/to meet each other in person.

    We emailed each other for a week or so and then started texting. A few weeks ago we skped, there was a bit of a lull where we texted some here and there and then last week we started talking more and more and have skyped every night (always his idea). He mentioned that he wanted to meet me in person and hang out because he thought we would have a great time together. So he asked if he could come this weekend. He had a jump scheduled (he jumps out of planes as part of his job) planned for Sat morning but said he still wanted to come regardless. He has been super sweet and has initiated all of our communication. He has booked a hotel room on his own and has asked what I want to do when he gets here. I’m trying to tell him our options with feeling messages as to what would feel good to do and let him decide. I’m nervous and excited! I want to keep the chemistry going and I’m a little scared that it will be awkward when he first gets here. Any tips? Advice?

    🙂 🙂

  186.  #186Daria on April 23, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    wow Michelle! that sounds awesome!

  187.  #187Bonnie on May 15, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    Thank you so much Rori for taking your heartache and horrible relationships- and doing the work for me! I am seperated- from a man who after 18 years- I could live with no more! We not only haven’t kissed in 18 years- after we decided to stop infertility and adopt- we didn’t have sex for 8 years-(I could say more) but I do not want to save the relationship- there never was any chemistry so there is none to go back to….
    Well, I joined a few dating online sites- and yep- before you know it melted into a guy with a way with words. We have only chatted every day for about 10 days- but last week I knew he was pulling away- and thanks to your email tips- I was able to draw him back : ) wow! it worked so quickly–
    I just finished your e-book and am feeling like a sponge- I want to read more and learn more-
    I am on a budget- being a single mom now!

    I don’t feel like doing circular dating- but I will-
    I just want to stay feeling the love I feel from David-
    but as we have no plans to meet “til we know it’s time” and we have had phone sex- like never anything I’ve ever thought of doing before- OY I better start circular dating pronto!!

    Thank you for being you and coaching me to be me!

  188.  #188Rori Raye on May 15, 2010 at 9:03 pm

    Bonnie, Welcome, and I’m so happy for you that you’re moving forward – YES! Circular Date!! Please don’t get your feelings invested in this one man – it’s so easy to create many Imaginary Relationships online – it’s not real – doesn’t even have a CHANCE of being Real until you meet – and this guy sounds like fun for you right now! Love, Rori

  189.  #189Bonnie on May 16, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Thanks again for the speedy reply- I knew you would be there for me! Can you give me an idea of which program to start with? I think I should start with the Commitment Blueprint- Can you steer me in the right direction?

    thank you thank you!

  190.  #190Rori Raye on May 16, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    Bonnie – hi – I’m deleting your last name for your privacy – if you go by Bonnie alone, you won’t end up in “moderation”! Start with the ebook, of course – then either Blueprint or Reconnect to get the STEPS really clearly, then Modern Siren, then Targeting Mr. Right….perhaps others here will steer you – but you can’t go wrong – everything’s returnable – and everything’s completely new and different – except for the basic Tools in the book I carry forward every time because they’re so crucial. Love, Rori

  191.  #191Bonnie on May 16, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    I have absorbed the e book- and am re reading it-
    on the treadmill and at stop lights-

    I am intrigued by the Blueprint- So I will go forward with getting that!

  192.  #192Bonnie on May 18, 2010 at 10:27 am

    Hi Rori and Ladies,
    Ok- so I’m still absorbing info –
    becoming my sensuous confident self-as I’m walking into a room or seeing men and see them noticing me- do I check for wedding rings before a lot of eye contact and smiling?
    Another question: Some times guys come up to me and sure I do practice on them- : ) but at a certain point it’s a no for me- and I don’t want to be rude- so what’s the best way to get “rid” of them and keep the energy still flowing to me- (I sure know how to push them away! when I want them!)

    Last Question: are there any local suport groups LOL to practice these on? I see Allana’s sexy books and Christian Carters- there are soo many I want to hook up with other’s in my community of Cincinnati! too? Maybe Rori you could think about branching out into the community – I will also look for your schedule to see where you might be and when : )

    Thank you again-
    I feel grounded into the earth, softer, feminine and am seeing how the doing, giving, and talking about how great the guy was- killed my best relationships – so lots to unlearn-

    Thank you!!

  193.  #193Amy F on May 26, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Dear Rori,
    So many amazing things have happened since I started the Siren program. I have 4 men I date regularly, all of whom I told no exclusivity. One man I was so panicked about (“he said this instead of that, he called at this time instead of that time” – you know the routine!) I leaned back against the wall, really opened my heart to other men, and he’s leaned way forward. Each one of them is pressing me for exclusivity and I say “I don’t want exclusivity. I don’t want the pressure of exclusivity. It does not feel good.” They are falling over themselves chasing me. It feels great to have myself as the constant center of my universe rather than a man. I’ve always had very high self-esteem so I’m not sure why once I became interested in a man I moved him onto center-stage. Never again! I am the star of this production!
    One man is a long-distance lover. We see each other once a month (he travels 3000 miles to see me whether he has business in town or not). We stay in a hotel, not at my house. He organizes everything. I show up looking and feeling fabulous, smelling great, ready to melt into his orbit. I can see the intoxicating impact a melting, open, confident woman has on a man. The relationship may get deeper, it may not, but I’m having such a great time. I truly am not attached to any outcome. Is there another program that is helpful for a long-term relationship? How to keep the attraction over the phone/text/email? Thank you so much for your amazing insights. I am a changed woman.

  194.  #194Rori Raye on May 26, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    Amy – BRAVA!! You are doing amazing! don’t know if you have Targeting Mr. Right – but it might help you with some of the nuts-and-bolts of Circular Dating. Love, Rori

  195.  #195EarthDancer on May 26, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    Hi Rori;

    I feel a bit confused – you recommend the Blueprint or Reconnect Programs to Bonnie. Is that where a ‘newbie’ should start even if you’re not in a relationship? Thanks 🙂

  196.  #196Polli on May 26, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    at first i leaned back in a desperate attempt to make HIM lean forward. i was told early on by Rori that my relationship was not real because we had not met yet (long distance). i hated hearing that and at first i thought she is wrong. HAH! not only have i come to see that it is indeed an imaginary relationship but so have all the relationships i have had including the one that was a sixteen year marriage. all i ever got from any of them was crumbs. why? because i so gladly accepted them because i thought so little of myself. let me tell you, that it takes alot of blood, sweat and tears to try to make a relationship out of crumbs. it is exhausting. and i finally see that it will never ever hold together. so i am ending my long distance relationship which is not a relationship at all. he is on vacation and when he gets back i will not even be in the boat!!! i don’t want to talk about it–explain it…etc etc…at least not right now. i just want to live and learn and move on. i used to think that if it did not work out i would always want this man as a friend. but i realize now that he has never been my friend. he used me. he made me cry many many times and feel very badly about myself….and that is not a friend. if he asks me and pressures me for a reason i may tell him….but i don’t feel the need now to put closure on something that was not real anyway. it would be nice if maybe he could learn that you should not treat women so badly, but the bottom line is i ALLOWED it. i plan to not ever let this happen again to me. i have had enough crumbs. but i realize they only toss crumbs because women like me so willingly take them. so that is what i learned here from all the sirens (and the siren queen, herself) that i am better than that. reading your posts have helped me tremendously. please remember, we are all too good for crumbs….we deserve the whole delicious cake!

  197.  #197Turtle Girl on May 26, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    Right on girl. You hit the nail on the head. Good for you. Bravo. hugs to you.

  198.  #198Polli on May 26, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    Thanks Turtle Girl!!!! And btw I forgot to say that I do not by any means consider myself CURED. It is something I will constantly have to work on. I know a few kind words from him and I can be dragged back to what is oh so familiar to me. But let’s just say I am going to try my hardest not to. I have to remember my value because he won’t. Meanwhile I will be practicing just for the fun of it..and listening to my Rori programs….and reading and learning here. It is probably easier for me than some….I just turned 60 maybe I don’t look it, so they say, but I feel it…and I want to spend the rest of my days on earth loving ME for a change.

  199.  #199Shell on July 7, 2010 at 1:29 am

    My ex bf.. I shall call him Mr B.. broke up with me 8 months ago. We currently live on different continents. I am good friends with his sisters and even his parents who are also friends with my parents. Anyhow I once loved him like there was no tomorrow and i gave him all of my power, i was devastated when we broke up but i just agreed it was for the best and walked away.. I did contact him skype and txt a couple of times just to say hi.. email a few jokes etc. Then one day i just deleted everything, removed him from my skype etc and moved on. Ok the thing is I left my fire twirling kit at his house and now that I know a mate of his is returning here from there… I really want him to bring my kit with him.. anyway so I emailed Mr B this..

    Hi Mr B
    Hope all good with u. IN is flyin into perth today to collect his sh1t to come home.. I completely forgot to ask him if he could bring my firekit back. Please could you see if he has space to bring my chains and stick. The Kevlar wick may have to be removed to travel tho.. please could you unwrap it so that I can just rewrap wicks when here. Also if travelling with the stick is a prob maybe you would be kind enuf to put it into a piece of pvc pipe or sumin. You don’t have to do this for me of course but it would feel great if you did and I would really appreciate it. Oh and then please give him my email add and zim no so he can get hold of me wen he is back. Thanks Mr B.

    Ok so since I havent heard back from him I assume i did it all wrong.. but it is done and cannot be undone. Now I really want my firekit back and I want him to help me achieve this but I have no idea on how to go from here.. I wanna video skype him but the thought makes me feel sick because of the rejected vibe he has given me. I dont feel safe contacting him.. because I feel less for doing so. How do I feel different about this and what do you think I should do to get my stuff back. Il be honest I dont know how I feel about him.. I feel confused. I do like him a lot as a person.. I still wish it had worked out and I know we could be good together but I doubt it would ever happen and I doubt we would even ever see each other again. Weird story I know.. when we met it was incredible magic and i felt like a goddess and over the 8month relationship I literally lost my mojo to him. The ending of this relationship is what guided me to Christian Carter and to Rori. I have learned so much since and because of this.. please I would love feedback and advice on this.. thanks
    Hugs Shell

  200.  #200Shell on July 7, 2010 at 1:33 am

    PS Hope u dont mind that I just stuck my story here.. seemed like as good a spot as any lol

  201.  #201Rosalie Hale on July 7, 2010 at 3:11 am


    I know how you feel and sending you my love… I’m going through the same losses: loss of myself and loss of (in my case) toxic, imaginary relationship.

    Getting your stuff back is a tricky question… He seems to be annoyingly ignorant. No minimal politeness or what. Do you have a friend or anybody who lives close to him? So they could visit him personally and ask for it.

    Or if it isn’t available, I would pressure his family!!! You said that you are in good connection with them. I know that it is not really fair and a bit childish solution, but maybe you should whine a bit to them how much you miss your stuff and how they could help you, because you can’t get in contact with him.

    Hey, the guy here is acting childish, too! I’m happy that you are over him and moved on!

  202.  #202Rosalie on July 7, 2010 at 3:14 am

    OOps sorry, I have forgotten that I’m renamed to justrosalie 🙂 🙂

    I edited myself at my comment box.

  203.  #203Jess on July 7, 2010 at 4:43 am


  204.  #204Jess on July 7, 2010 at 4:47 am

    Dear Shell

    I can identify with what you are feeling, having been there myself. I wonder if you are familiar with Margaret Paul’s work on Innerbonding. Perhaps you need to get clear on what is your intent here, both conscious and unconscious. Here are some links on IB that you may want to read to help you get clearer on intent.

    These are but just some free stuff you can read from the site. Just type ‘intent’ in the search box and tons of material will come up. Read what resonates with you.

    Once you’ve got a sense of intent as defined by Margaret, perhaps you’d want to relook at your dilemma. One aspect to consider is – what if you had had no previous romantic link with Mr B – he was merely some co-worker or neighbor ie no emotions involved. What would your next action be if he had not responded to your request.

    I have found for myself that when I begin to clarify my intent and set it clearly as wanting to learn and to take loving action for myself (and it usually ends up being for others too), my emotions settle down and the answer regarding what I need to do comes to me quiet clearly soon enough.
    Hope it helps.

  205.  #205Shell on July 9, 2010 at 2:38 am

    Thank you Rosalie and Jess for your feedback. Jess thanks for the link.. I’ve already been on there this morning and downloaded some articles to read later. Once I have read thru them I’ll let you know what my next step is gonna be. I wish it was easier for me to just get my kit back without having to even think about contacting him.. Thanks again.. It feels great to have you sirens respond to my message. I must use this forum more, its such a pleasurable way to learn and grow. Hugs xx

  206.  #206Shell on July 11, 2010 at 10:45 am

    Ok so an update on me getting my firekit back from Mr B…interesting outcome so thought Id post it.

    I decided that my intent was really to get my stuff back…so I decided to write a feeling message/email. I decided that i didnt want to get his family or even some of my friends involved coz thats all a bit dramatic I thought. So this is wat I wrote….

    “Hi Mr B

    I have been trying to call you but no joy.

    I dont want you, so no need to fret.. but you do have something I want lol. I feel awkward and uncomfortable even trying to get hold of you as it feels like you would prefer not to hear from me or communicate with me.. so this feels icky!! However as this is about me and what I want, and since I had no response to my last email I shall bravely soldier on regardless hehe. It would feel so great if you would break with normal convention of non vital ex communication for just long enuf so I could arrange the return of my firekit with you. Im sure this feels like a silly insignificant request but it would be soo great to have my firekit and since Ian is coming home I thought this a perfect opportunity to get them back. Please could you acknowledge my request so I dont feel like I need to keep trying to contact you… and I guess I would feel more comfortable knowing that there are no negative vibes between us 


    I sent this Sat afternoon.. his time late evening.. and I’ll be honest I thought I prob would not hear back from him..or at least not for days/weeks if at all. With most of his ex gfs (there hasnt been many) he has never said another word to since they broke up. Anyway huge surprise this morning when I check my emails I find this reply from him…

    ” hey chick

    Sorry…1000 000 000 times

    Nothing awkward just been stupid busy, still not skyped up, remote access my email once / twice a week and have 3 mob’s at the mo, so the old one gets looked at once in a while..

    Anyway, did get yr last mail, saw Ian the day he arrived and asked him…. very non commital as always

    You know how hard it is to fly underweight, anyway chatted to him yesterday and him and brian are sending a container of house shit back soon , Brian wants to buy a house in the falls.

    I will get you gear packed and ready. if anyone is going sooner I will send it, but worst case it will come in their container

    hope you are all good”

    I have to say I was fall on the floor surprised and very pleased that he responded and is willing to help.. feeling messages really work.. its amazing actually and I am now hooked hehe.. thanks Rori and thanks to all u chickens on blog.. Mwa x

  207.  #207Shell on July 11, 2010 at 10:54 am

    Oh and that was a smiley 🙂 at the end of my email to him.. copied and pasted weirdly. Thanks Jess also I did read some of Dr MPs stuff its cool.. except i would have to be a member to read the articles on intent you linked.. anyhow will be back on her it thanks again.

    Im feeling very goddessy today yay xx

  208.  #208alana on August 6, 2010 at 10:47 am

    Dear Rori & anyone who can help,
    I apprecaite all your advise and wisdom.
    Im in a relationship with someone long distance and we have fallen in love. He is scared to take the relationship to the next level and meet me because he has been told to stay clear of long distance relationships. He is my souls counterpart, and I cannot just sit back and allow him to be taken by other local women. He really loves me but is scared of long distance relationships because of all the negative skeptical things he has heard or read.
    Surely, real love is worth pursuing and giving a try isnt it?
    Im 31 years old and I’ve dated many men before, but nobody has the chemistry that we share. There has never been a moment of akwardness between us. We just totally accept each other and have many similar interests. We meet on webcam and chat for hours. Our love is so strong that I cannot bear being apart from him, and Im sure he feels the same way. I know someone who moved overseas to marry the man she loved. They have been happily married for a decade. They initially started out i a long distance relationship. Surely it can work. But we will never know if we never try.
    I can always move overseas to be with him, near him. Which is what we both would like. But the fear of being apart initially is keeping us from even meeting face to face. Of course at first there might be some distance travelling back and forth to visit each other, but for true love isn’t it worth sacrifice?
    Nobody likes being apart from the man they love. But it is better to have loved than never loved at all. In the same way isn’t it better to try something than to be overwhemled by negativity and not never try?Then regret it for the rest of our life.
    How can I convince him to give us a try? And how can I assure him I will move overseas to be with him if we get very serious, without sounding needy?

  209.  #209Rori Raye on August 6, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    alana – since you haven’t met him – you know nothing about him. Chemistry is IMPOSSIBLE. He can’t really love you – nor can you really love him. If you want to go for broke and can afford it – get on a plane, land on his doorstep (tell him you’re coming) and see what happens. I wouldn’t hold my breath that it will be anything wonderful – but you never know. If you can’t afford that – and be willing to go home with nothing…then stop this “relationship” now. You can keep talking to him, if you like – but being exclusive with him, and considering this a “relationship” is neither smart, realistic, or good for you. Assuming that he’s “scared” is about the worst thing you can do. For all you know – he’s married. Hope this helps – and we’ll all help you here. Love, Rori

  210.  #210Jessica on September 29, 2010 at 10:09 pm

    hi, im also in a long distance relationship, and i decided to go see him over seas,and he proposed to me and when i go see him, im supposivily suppose to see his parents and arrange a wedding day with him, and everything went well, but till yesterday, he confronted me that he cheated on me with one of his coworkers, and he said, he only saw him for 2 weeks just kissed her and went on dinner, nothing more, but i feel like i dont trust him anymore, but he says he really feels sorry for what he did theres no girl out there like me,
    but what ever choice i make, he will understand cause he knows he did wrong… that was what he said… but all i said to him was, maybe dating other girls now is what you need, but he kept saying no and getting mad,,, but later, he said, he would call me back, but he never called me back, knowing his phone was off…. and the next day, he said his phone was out of battery…..
    i think its all excuses…

  211.  #211Briget on October 19, 2010 at 11:46 am

    Hi Rori –

    I could use your advice. Here’s my story. I met a man at a friend’s wedding about 5 years ago. There was instant mutual attraction and we had several amazing conversations over that weekend. It was as if I had met “The One”. This was terribly distressing to me because I was engaged at the time. There was no cheating or anything, but I fell in love with this guy in my heart and soul. He actually looked me in the eyes and begged me not to marry my fiance. He could see that I wasn’t in love with him – and he was right. The weekend ended and we respectfully did not communicate after that. I cried my eyes out in private for days, because I felt as though I had met my soul mate and I couldn’t have him – yet. However, through our mutual friends, we always kept tabs on one another. I always thought about him. Several years passed and I did eventually broke off the engagement with my fiance. A few months later, I ran into “The One” during another weekend gathering. We instantly made a bee-line for one another. He found out I was single and that was it, we have been together ever since that day. No question in my mind that we should be together. We have built a solid, committed (and yes, exclusive) relationship. It’s all pretty fairy tale stuff.

    He is actually the first man that I have WANTED to be with. My pattern has been that I am pursued by a really nice guy, who I end up dating and or engaged to, then I put off the wedding until I finally call off the engagement and break the poor guy’s heart. I am not proud of that, nor has it been done consciously, but I am just giving you a reference point for my history. Years of therapy and age have gotten me to the point where I am finally mature enough to know who and what I want – and it is this relationship with this man.

    I visit him every other week, because I work from home and I have a bi-weekly custody arrangement with my ex for our daughter. When we are together we have a blast. I feel very close to him, like he is my best friend. When we are apart, he calls me several times a day and always calls to tell me goodnight. He is wonderful with my daughter and the two are very close.

    So – what’s my problem, then? Well, we live 2 hours apart and after dating for a year and a half, I actually want to tie the knot. He always talks about getting married in the future, but I am worried that it may never happen (what an ironic twist of fate for me!). Our “plan” is that we will get married in 3.5 years, after my daughter graduates from high school and I can move to his city (which is actually my hometown).

    But I don’t know if I will make it that long. Seriously – traveling back and forth every other week has made me feel like a gypsy. And at the end of the day, I just want him to be here, with me, now. My life here is full. I have lots of friends, my daughter, my career, hobbies, family, activities, etc. But I feel that our relationship is “part-time”. Like it’s a half-life relationship. He actually could move here if he wanted to, but it might be financially risky for him. But it’s still doable.

    So – I guess my question is – How can I get him so fired up that he is willing to take the risk, move here and push up our wedding plans so we can start building a life together and having a normal “full time” relationship?

  212.  #212Rori Raye on October 21, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    Briget – so sorry, I don’t have an answer for you. Sounds to me like you’re doing great and have a nice thing going with him. But it’s not going to happen fast. Honestly – what would he do? If the plan is for you to move to his town – that’s way different than him doing something financially risky. The “doable” part is what’s important to him – and all you can do is brainstorm with him. I’m not sure what I’d do in your situation. I’d be tempted to move my entire family to his town…or at least talk about it with him. Love, Rori

  213.  #213Pantea on November 14, 2010 at 9:36 am

    Hi Rori,

    Here’s my story:

    I met a guy on a social network site a month ago. There was instant mutual attraction and we had several amazing conversations over that weekend. and we have been chatting on the internet everyday and two weeks later we were talking relationship. We have been talking on the internet and on phone since then. He’s doing all the chasing and has started calling me his wife and i’m kind of happy with him just like he says he is too. We’ve not met in person because he’s like 10000 miles away from me.

    The problem now is that i’m not sure i’m making the right decision dating him barely a month meeting him. How am i so sure he’s not doing this with other girls he met on the sites too.

  214.  #214Vickie on November 14, 2010 at 10:49 am

    Hi Pantea,

    I’m not Rori, of course, but I’m the originator of this particular post. Dear, I can tell you from experience that there IS NO RELATIONSHIP until you meet in person. I once had a guy leading me by the nose-ring with very similar lines that this guy is giving you. After about 6 weeks, I discovered that he was a scammer and the photo that he had on the site was not even him! He even showed me photos of “his daughter” and “his horses,” none of which were actually his, but photos that he had copied and pasted just for the scam. I think that I was really fooled because he actually called me from overseas. (I later discovered that there are many Internet programs from which a person can make calls for free or for a mininum fee.) When he called me with an urgent message, however, saying that the oil rig that he was on had been hijacked and that he and his crew were being held for ransom, I immediately realized that my Prince Charming was actually the Dark Prince from Hades! He wanted me to help him come up with $60,000 to pay the hijackers! He was extremely persistent, calling me all times of the night, “crying” and begging me to help him. He promised to repay me triple fold when it was all over. I was blown away; but I knew that he was lying.

    Your situation may not be like this one, but any guy who begins proclaiming his love for you this early on and without ever meeting you face-to-face is suspect and a candidate for whom you must exercise extreme caution! I know from experience it’s possible to become infatuated with a person over the phone because they say all of the things that we want to hear. However, when and IF you do ever meet that person, you could find that you are repulsed by them! You discover that they are someone you would never even have spoken to, let alone proclaimed your love for them.

    My advice to you is to slow down. Ask this guy when he plans to visit you in the U.S. I wouldn’t go trapsing off to meet him, not with the rise in criminal organizations abducting women and forcing them into the sex slave trade. This might all sound wild and unlikely, but in today’s world and with the economy the way it is, anything is possible! While this scenario may be the worst thing to happen, there is also the possibility that he is a lonely guy who is content to “love you” from afar and has no plans to ever meet you. I’ve dated on the Internet for several years now, and I’ve met all sorts. On more than one occasion, I was contacted by men, some who were married, who were looking for someone who would participate with them in Cyber sex. That was all they wanted. Since I’m not into that type of “entertainment,” I didn’t fall for that; but the fact that I have been asked so frequently is truly alarming.

    Pantea, you can’t be too careful when dealing with Online dating. It can be a dangerous place if you are too trusting. Keep your wits about you, and consider this old adage: If it seems too good to be true, it mostly likely isn’t!

    Good luck and be cautious!

  215.  #215Lucia on December 27, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    I have been chatting with a men for long time now, when we were moving forward and he was just to come to visit (from Canada to Mexico) we had a fight, I got upset, we cut all comunication for 6 months, we recently start again, on that time he was talking about visiting me, but every time he mention i never said anything back like “yes, i would love to”, I met him thought work and we met personally twice, never kissed, only hug a little and talked for hours with other people in the same room, just a little bit alone. We chat with skype to watch ourselves for video.
    Do you think that with the 2 times we were together (no kissing) and the video helps to know if the chemistry will work? of course he was already desperated to meet because I know he wanted to be with me already, he never was straightforward with it because he knows I am old fashioned, but he mention it several times.
    Now I dont know how to “help” or “push” for him to come and define once and for all if we will be together or not, we have been mailing or chating for over a year now

    thank you Rori

  216.  #216Rori Raye on December 28, 2010 at 11:27 am

    Lucia – Long distance sucks. Unless you can go to Canada for an extended period, or he can come see you…there’s no way to build a relationship. I”m assuming you’re dating other men as well? If it were me, I wouldn’t let it go on further without a serious visit one way or another and a plan in place…Love, Rori

  217.  #217Renee on January 1, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    Dear Rori,
    I have just purchased your ebook and I have already read it… I was so anxious to know your secrets to have the relationship I want.
    I met a guy at my friend´s graduation party 3 months ago. I haven´t noticed him but my friend introduced us and we have been talking and seeing each other ever since. And it´s been great. The thing is: we live in different states. Of course that makes me feel a bit (well… a LOT!) insecure, but I always try to think everything will be ok. We talk and call each other and we´ll meet again in a couple of weeks. I really like him and want to invest in us. What can I do (or don´t do) to make him be interested in me (even if he meets other girls, he´ll only think of me) and make him want to be with me, no matter what? We are not in a formal dating relationship because of the distance and we are keeping in touch to see where it goes.
    I haven´t been doing too much: I let him call, write e-mails and all I do is respond according to his actions.. well, I´m letting it just be. But I´d really like some advice on how to keep him interested in me.

  218.  #218Andi on January 5, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    Hi Rori,

    I read this post from Vickie with great interest. I am an example of what happens when you fall in love with that wonderful man of your dreams who lives 1,000 miles away and invest everything that you are.

    I have been dating him for 2 years and 9 months, and he literally does live 1,000 miles away. We met online – as friends with similar interests. We both have children at home but we were willing to take the risk to meet, and he is everything and more than I ever imagined I could have, and I believe I am the same for him…

    We have made a commitment to see each other every 4-6 weeks and have been able to do so until the last year, where it was spaced out to 5 months in between…I allowed him to pursue me with calls, texts – and I reciprocated. This experience has been absolutely healing, fantastic, authentic, beautiful, life-affirming and gut-wrenching and horrible because we long to be together, we are both cut from the same cloth, but we love our kids and haven’t been able to work out a way…

    The bottom line is, his situation has changed and he will not be able to visit in person for at least the next year (we have both had unexpected job lay-offs, etc.) Before Christmas he told me out of the blue that he didn’t want to be in a relationship anymore – that I could be engaged to someone by now and he didn’t want to do that to me. We had talked of trying to be together at all costs – but did not make specific plans because it is so difficult to navigate how it will work and still be with our kids…I know that what we share is precious and genuine. I was hoping against the hopeless.

    Well as it turned out, even though he asked for a “break” from our relationship he couldn’t stop talking to me…texting and calling. Again I allowed him to take the lead and contact me. Then the day after Christmas he stopped texting and calling me completely after I told him my ex-husband had gotten engaged over Christmas. He had texted me about my ex-dropping my son off after Christmas and I shared back in a text that my ex was now engaged…There was no fight over it, no real discussion…he just never texted me back. He has not contacted me since, and I have not reached out to him…my gut says not to. It has been horrible beyond words – we had never gone 24 hours without contact for nearly 3 years. He is my best friend.

    I believe now that I know what happened – the mistake I made was to become exclusive with him after the first time we met in person…I can see now how and why the oxygen left the relationship.

    In the beginning we knew that if we met it would be gut-wrenching from the start if the connection we suspected we had was real. (Confirmed by meeting in person.) Well, it has been that and more for us – we are two people who share something extraordinary and rare and who seem to be made for each other – but live 1,000 miles away. It has always been worth it…

    Now, I am heart-broken and sick, having not heard from him, with him being devoted and pursuing me everyday for almost 3 years. I think he is crushed by the weight of not being able to give me what I need, even though I have not hammered him with expectations…

    I will not allow myself to contact him…it is just not how our relationship worked…but we have been constant devoted companions, lovers and best friends – every day – for 2.75 years! Not a day has gone by that he has not reached out to me of his own accord…until now.

    I know I have to move on and wait for him to contact me if we are to connect at all, but it is unbearable…

    I let too much of my world revolve around him without the commitment of marriage and in the two weeks we haven’t talked I have actually felt healthier. I just have indescribable pain in his absence…and I can’t imagine I will never see him again…or have him a part of my life.

    Your ebook and website have helped me so much…please, do you have any thoughts on this and how I should keep going from here?

    I guess the reality is we are two people who do love and adore for each other deeply, more than either thought possible – but we also love our kids and put being with them first…

    But, I can’t and don’t want to believe it is over, though I probably should. I can’t accept the fact that I will never see this man again…the man who taught me what it was to be cherished and allowed me to do the same in return. I want to believe we can somehow make it work by “thinking out of the box.” I also know it will never be easy. And that he has to want it. Still, I move forward, not knowing what he is thinking…

    Thank you so much for how you have already helped me,


  219.  #219Andi on January 8, 2011 at 9:15 pm

    It will be two weeks to tomorrow since I last heard from him…

    I am so angry at him, and sad. I just can’t believe it. Where is he?? The day he dropped out of my life just also happened to be my birthday. I’m so sad

    1009 days he was a part of my life everyday, and I slowly built my world around him while he was 1000 miles away.

    13 days of not hearing from him. 1009 v. 13

    1009 days is a long time, I will not make the same mistakes again

    1009 days and then he is gone. 1009 days. How is he gone


    Five hundred twenty-five thousand
    Six hundred minutes,
    Five hundred twenty-five thousand
    Moments so dear.
    Five hundred twenty-five thousand
    Six hundred minutes
    How do you measure, measure a year?

    In daylights, in sunsets, in midnights
    In cups of coffee
    In inches, in miles, in laughter, in strife.

    In five hundred twenty-five thousand
    Six hundred minutes
    How do you measure
    A year in the life?

    How about love?
    How about love?
    How about love? Measure in love

    Seasons of love. Seasons of love

    Five hundred twenty-five thousand
    Six hundred minutes!
    Five hundred twenty-five thousand
    Journeys to plan.

    Five hundred twenty-five thousand
    Six hundred minutes
    How do you measure the life
    Of a woman or a man?

    In truths that she learned,
    Or in times that he cried.
    In bridges he burned,
    Or the way that she died.

    It’s time now to sing out,
    Tho’ the story never ends
    Let’s celebrate
    Remember a year in the life of friends
    Remember the love!
    Remember the love!
    Seasons of love!

    Oh you got to got to
    Remember the love!
    You know that love is a gift from up above
    Share love, give love spread love
    Measure measure your life in love.


    Journeys to plan…
    I was supposed to be worth it :(:(:(

  220.  #220Hayley on February 13, 2011 at 8:48 am

    I have a long distance relationship.

    But the thing is, I know him. He was my friend for almost a year so I know all about him.
    But is it still a relationship if we can only talk on Facebook now? What should I do?

  221.  #221frenky on May 7, 2011 at 12:03 pm

  222.  #222Lldjpswu on September 7, 2011 at 8:46 am

    Get a job underage sex tube

  223.  #223chioma on January 16, 2012 at 10:07 am

    I met a guy on net who instantly was vry attracted 2 me,kept telling me how much he loves me,he’s frm my country but stays abroad,he told me not to go back to my x,or go for any date,he said he was coming hm 2 meet my family,so we cld also av our bonds before he goes back,on the day of his arrival after sixmonths of online dating,I met him at d airport,n we both when to whr he was lorged.but I noticed after the first night which we had sex,he started avoiding me abit ,but he calls 2 say how busy he was,that he loves me so much n bla-bla,then 1 day I cldnt jst tk the excuse any longer I had to force the truth frm him,he said that he love me so much,but he’s suprised he didt get the sparks he expected,that he’s so sorry to say this,that maybe is frm he’s own part,he needs to bk n fix it.I was calm but hurt initially,but after he has gone back he jst kept apologising,that he still lv me,that I shldt leave him,we shld jst continue frm whr we stopped.that was when I started getting angry,I told him my mind ,but in all he kept apologising.he doesn’t really call me like he use 2 which he explained y without my asking first,and we also chat on bb,but bicos of wat happened things are not jst how it was before for me again,am making myself happy and am withdrawing and he’s noticing it,n I think he’s also trying to pull away which I sense is difficult for him.wat do I do?I saw him only three times when he came,n I noticed he uploaded some ladies pictures on facebook including mine,definitly he saw them too,which I also told him I wasn’t happy with and he apologise.I dnt knw am confused

  224.  #224jason on February 14, 2012 at 1:34 am

    be honest with each other and explain your history making it nice for each other. understand each other and how your other half thinks and you will have a happy ending =)

  225.  #225Agatha on June 21, 2012 at 8:14 am

    Hello Rori,
    My name is Agatha and I’m from Brazil. I met this guy from America, last year, online and I already like him very much. We haven’t met yet but we plan to do it this year. The problem I face with him is that, although I know we can’t consider what we have as a relationship, I still feel like it is needed a commitment since we are waiting to meet for so long. But he has some problem with commitment, at least, online speaking. He flirts with other girls and I have always forgiven him. During all this time we have been dating he would have doubts if I was the right person for him and would have another person in his mind. He says that the distance is something hard for him and that’s why he has these doubts. I’m really not sure about what to do, cause I do care about him very much already and the one who is going to his country is me, because I have saved money and he says he is broke now and he will have only a week of vacation this year because he just starting working at a new place. I’m really sad because it seems to me that this is gonna work only if I do things. I have already told him I wouldn’t come to America because of this and that I feel like it isn’t right for me to pursue him. And he will always apologize for his past mistakes and promise not to hurt me or have doubts, and he begs me to come and that he needs me. I have been invested so much on him, it isn’t just about money, but I have given him time, and listened to him, tried helping him. I need your advice, please. I really wish our situation was easier, that we lived closer so that we could meet for real and know at once if we want a serious relationship. It is just hard being close emotionally to someone you don’t know yet and not being able to meet soon.

  226.  #226Rori Raye on June 21, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    Agatha – There is no such thing as commitment in this situation! Please – this is IMAGINARY right now. You CAN’T be close to a man you haven’t met. You are making all this up, and it’s not serving you. You have a long-distance pen pal. That’s all. Please see it that way and behave accordingly. Love, Rori

  227.  #227Agatha on June 30, 2012 at 6:43 pm

    Thank you Rori,
    Although I always knew it, it is like if I don’t wanna believe it.
    We’ve been talking, me and this guy, this last week and he said he has doubts about me. But it is like you just said, we could never consider it a commitment since we never met. I’m sorry for bothering you about my situation, and I wish you could give me some advice about this: I’m gonna talk to him about the commitment thing and tell him we can’t face it this way till we can meet in real life. But I’m afraid he will just let me go. I wish he would fight for me and even come here. My doubt now is, should I be friends with him and still come to his country to meet him? (all of that I’d do after we talk about the commitment thing, that we are out of our minds for thinking about it already).
    Of course, there would be a lot of expectation, I know I would feel that way, and maybe even very sad if it doesn’t work. I just would like to give it a chance. But I’d like to hear it from you.
    I’m planing on buyng your books. I think they would be very helpful.
    Thank you for your time,

  228.  #228sequoia on August 29, 2012 at 8:35 am

    Hello Rori and Sirens
    I love this blog – it helped me many times to get my mind of obsessing about a man and to focus back on me. Than you Rori and Sirens.
    I have met a man 3 years ago at a spiritual congress. He approached me and I liked him instantly. We saw each other the other day at the congress and he came up again and talked to me and when it ended he asked me for my details. He contacted me via email and fb and we had been in contact since than. When I met him he had just left a relationship and didn’t seem to be over it and I was sad about it. I didn’t initiate anything and I naturally leaned back. Over the years it was also him who got int ouch again and again, we live in different countries and than a year later he was in a new relationship – so I never invested anything. I recently moved and I am living closer to him now – so he invited me to visit him. i initially didn’t feel comfortable with coming to visit him – I wanted him to visit me, however he didn’t want to visit me and he brought up a few arguments why I should come and see him, eg. that I do not feel comfortable were I have settled there and that I this is not realy my home and as I am moving again anyway soon etc., he also has kids and he was starting a new job – and i had to pick sthg up from a town nearby him – so I went there. I instanly liked him when we met and I had the feeling he too – even so he had just split up with his girlfriend. Anyway long story short, we had a great time , and we also had sex, even so I came with the intention to be realy careful as I know myself, I just couldn’t resist. I stayed one day longer than planed and than went back home and I felt very insecure. And it became worse as he didn’t call just emailed. I stayed with feeling messages, and I even shared that I feel insecure as our first meeting was so intense for m and as I am not sure if he is has feelings for his ex etc.. He wrote back that he is not looking for a commited relationship right now but that he is just opening up again and that he would like to get to know me and meet me occasionally. I wrote him back that I am open for this too however that i wouldn’t have been open for this if he still had feelings for his ex.He knows that I am longing for a commited relationship and when he finally called over skype after I had responded with a lot of feeling messages that I am not able to write easily and that it would feel so much better to talk to him, he asked if I want a commited relationship right now and I responded that I would like to get to know him however I do not want to waste time as I truly long for something serious. He said he doesn’t want to waste time either and that he liked to get to know me better. I hoped he would ask me if we can meet soon however he had already made plans and he didn’t seem to have the desire to meet me again and I felt quiet dissapointed.I expressed this and said that it doesn’t feel good not to see him again for such a long time ( we arranged a date a month later , were we both had time to meet again). He asked what we can do about it and I said that I’ll have to keep myself open for other man as i realy long for a commited relationship. He agreed that this is a good idea. It all felt quiet good however when we finshed the call he said – you can write me anytime. This felt very strange and since than his email seemed very distant, he hasn’t called and I just feel frustrated as I so long for us to more deeply connect. I truly like this man and we also spoke about our values and he even asked me if i want children. However I feel very impatient and the whole thing triggers a lot of anxiety in me. At the moment i feel tempted to write him that I have the feeling that he doesn’t long to see me as much as I do and that this doesn’t feel good. And that I also feel not good as I am afraid that I am hurt again, that I hope for sthg. which turns out to be an illusion. I want to be honest with him and i am not sure how to handle this. At the moment his emails sound like the ones my dad writes to me – which also triggers me – he reminds me of my dad a lot and I know that I want to be in a healthy relationship and not have ‘my dad’ so I feel a bit confused about that too. Shall I keep that all for myself or shall i share this with him? I feel impatient and want him to be fully into me, i would like him to call me a lot, to passionatly express his desires for me and to want to see me again asap. He seems so casual about it so and he’s just living his live, and I have the feeling he is also dating other women, which makes me jeleous, esp. as I havn’t started circular dating yet. I soo feel the need for it – to take my mind of him.
    I am happy to receive any comments of you fellow sirens and Rori. Thank you

  229.  #229sequoia on August 29, 2012 at 9:08 am

    I just wanted to add that he wrote me after I emailed him that I feel insecure because he had split up with his ex 6 weeks ago (they mutally ended the relationship as she went to live abroad) that he felt very close to me the moment we met and that he wished he had met me before he came together with his ex. this felt very reassuring however the whole connection still triggers a lot of anxiety in me -esp. as I have had a lot of trauma with unavailable man etc. He is quiet different to the man I met before him so – he’s very caring, loving, able to express his emotions and we shared a lot over the last years just writing each other). I also mentioned that he reminds me of my dad – which I feel triggered by and it confuses me. Its the positive things of my dad – how he writes about nature, mainly his connection to nature and just the way he writes – its funny but it triggers me esp. as I am aware that my father created a lot of injuries in me as he cheated on my mum as she was pregnant and as he wanted her to abort me. I am also aware that i still have a lot of resentment towards my father – which i do not want to project onto him. It all feels so complicated and scary!
    And I am not sure what to share with him, as I want to be truthful and what to keep to myself.

  230.  #230Rhonda on November 19, 2012 at 12:48 am

    What if the woman is flying out to meet the man, should he pay for her plane ticket? What rules apply here? My girlfriend says he should pay for all of it. Please help.

  231.  #231Rori Raye on November 19, 2012 at 10:21 am

    Rhonda – depends on the status of the relationship. If you’ve been together for a while and you’re engaged, and the separation is short and temporary – you might have a joint savings for travel to each other. If this is a “first meet” of a long-distance relationship – he needs to come out to see you in person the first time. And after that – it depends on who has the most money and how well you can negotiate from your “girl” energy. Long distance sucks, and it costs money. I would let him pay for the first time YOU go out to meet him – and then start negotiating. Love, Rori

  232.  #232Ruth on January 14, 2013 at 6:23 pm

    hello everyone,

    i’ve really enjoyed reading these posts and getting back in touch with my feelings. they have always been there and strong but often society and our culture it seems, gives women mixed messages about “who” we are supposed to be. I am a beautiful succulent woman. I know this to be true and part of that succulence rests on my ability to speak freely without judgement from anyone about how I feel.

    I have recently reconnected with a man online that i talked to 3 years ago. We have always had very nice conversations online and even now 3 years later i feel comfortable talking to him. He lives in America and I’m in canada. Since we’ve been talking on skype we are both expressing how comfortable we feel in each others presence and he and I have both also expressed that we like each other.

    I have said that I would like to meet him soon and only once I have said this. I do believe that men need to act and women “just be” He has said he will start looking into coming up here in the next few weeks.

    i have some ideas of what I feel comfortable doing with him initially once I meet him. First a walk, then another date would be dinner, another would be an activity of some sort… my question is: I have been in my city for 8 years now and I have been dating men here. There are so many places that I already have been to with other men on dates so I have little sentiment for these places. I can think of a few places that i’d like to see yes, but, if things go really well between us…

    Is it reasonable to take a trip with him somewhere tropical with him? i have never done anything like this before and it would be a great adventure. We have talked about wanting to go on a holiday this year and even going together. Is it reasonable to expect him to pay for our trip? and request a separate hotel room? I really feel that i wouldn’t be comfortable sharing a room with him at this early stage but would like to see how we travel together! Maybe this is too early, i’m still feeling it out but the weather is so cold here and to get away would be so wonderful and dare i say – romantic. Keeping in mind my clear boundaries with him though that I will not engage in sex unless I am engaged to him.

    thank-you for your comments and ideas around this post. xo my beautiful female friends! Ruth 🙂

  233.  #233Ruth on January 14, 2013 at 6:34 pm

    also, i’m feeling my way through “how do I express my expectation of him paying for our holiday?” i really do feel that it is the man’s role to show that he can take care of a woman in a relationship. maybe i could say just that? i love the feeling of being safe and protected, nurtured and provided for in a relationship. that’s what i want from a man…

  234.  #234Rori Raye on January 14, 2013 at 8:11 pm

    Ruth! You are SO getting ahead of yourself! MEET the man in person first! See and experience how he reacts to you, what the attraction is or isn’t – stop making all these plans! He’s either got to come to you, or you have to meet somewhere in the middle. For coffee and a walk. See if he wants a second date, and if you do. Go from there…I totally think a trip together with separate bedrooms is silly. If you’re not together and intimate – don’t go on a holiday together!

    And – I don’t know how old you are – but the percentage of men who’d ask a woman they haven’t slept with (had sex with) to marry them is so tiny – and I would say…”odd.” Sex comes into a relationship at a time when you feel comfortable with it – and if you’re a woman who makes hard and fast rules about sex – I’d like to encourage you to look at those, and why you feel the need to make those rules. Love, Rori

  235.  #235Rikky on March 1, 2013 at 5:45 am

    I am really glad I found this blog after getting Rori’s ebook. I also found myself in a long distance relationship. We live in different countries and are 1000 miles apart. After 5 months of planning and waiting, the day came and his trip was planned for 7 days. We met for the first time face to face and it was as if we have been together for years. The first 3 days were awesome, until he called to check up on his mother.

    After the phone call ended, his mother called back after which he told me that his father is not doing well and he had to return home immediately. I thought his father was terminally ill or at least was in the hospital. Within 20 minutes he bought a new ticket and was making calls to be picked up at the airport.

    Based on the conversation with him the day after he returned, I learned that nothing was wrong with his father and only that his mother wanted him to come home. This man is 41 years old, lives on his own and is financially independent. Over the last 5 months I have fallen deeply in love with him and except for his behaviour with this incident with his mother, I believed he is the man of my dreams and that we had a future together.

    Not only did he lie to me about his father’s condition he has not even apologized or expressed any regret about having to cut his trip short. While he paid for everything, hotel and all, I had taken time off from work to be with him and made arrangements based on his request on things we would do while he was here.

    Dealing with the long distance is one thing, but the hold his mother has on him is quite serious.
    Now I don’t know what to think or how to feel.
    Please help.

  236.  #236Rori Raye on March 1, 2013 at 11:07 am

    Rikky – Welcome, and this has nothing to do with his mother. You may have thought the first 3 days were “awesome,” and clearly – he didn’t. He either used his father as an excuse, or his mother lied to him. Either way – he doesn’t seem to care. Dump him from your mind – you must make this over and done. Love, Rori

  237.  #237Rikky on March 1, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    Rori, thank you for responding so quickly. You are right, he has made it clear he doesn’t care. And here I was blaming his mother for ‘guilting’ him into coming home. Thanks, Rikky

  238.  #238FindingDee on March 8, 2013 at 3:09 pm

    Hello fellow Sirens;
    this is my first post, and would like some advice. I live in a large metro area, and one CD lives about 45 minutes away. We have a date for dinner & dancing tomorrow night, this will be our second date. He asked if he could pick me up (I met him at the coffee shop the first time we met). I felt weird when he asked me, and was not sure if it was a good idea, but I want to move out of my comfort zone and experience new things, so I said yes. We were talking on the phone the other night and he made suggestive comments. One of the comments he suggested we have a “pre-dinner” drink when he picked me up and we may not make it to dinner!” and said “I feel very warm, I believe I am blushing”, to which he responded by laughing and saying how much he liked me. We talked about dancing and he mentioned how dancing is very intimate. I said I felt apprehensive because I have not been dancing for many years; he said not to worry that he doesn’t think anyone will be watching me, except him. It felt thrilling to be flirted with, and I enjoyed the attention. Today I have been thinking about this conversation, and am worried that he may want to stay when he takes me home. I have wrote some scripts but I’m wondering about timing – should I wait and see what transpires, but have a script ready for a few scenarios? Or do I bring it up at dinner?

    I feel more confident since circular dating, and I want to continue to practice my feeling messages. What do you think?

  239.  #239Rori Raye on March 9, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    Dee – Welcome – and what a great situation and question! This is the point at which you have to SPEAK!!! And speak the truth – just as you’ve told it to us here. You need to simply feel powerful enough to be able to say “No” no matter what. This isn’t about sex – you can have sex with a man whenever you want and it’ll make no difference to the relationship. This is about YOUR confidence, what you want, and your FEAR of your lack of confidence and displeasing a man.

    Write yourself a speech like this one – where you say you felt so flattered by his flirting, and yet you’re kind of new to dating, and so it feels a bit overwhelming, and it would feel best to just be clear about sex, since it got brought up. That you really like him, and aren’t ruling out sex once you get to know him better, but that you’re a slow starter and may need some time to just really make out with him first!

    Don’t give a timeline, or how many dates…just – if he brings it up again, or is suggestive – get straight with him. And then – if you like him and feel attracted to him – DO make out with him – and say NO when you’ve gone as far as you want to go. If he doesn’t call again – well, then you’ve smoked him out! Love, Rori