How to Stop Anxiety From Costing You Your Relationships and Career

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by Shana James

Have you ever woken up in the middle of the night and started worrying about a relationship or your job and then you can’t get back to sleep? I’ve had that happen a lot!

A while ago, I woke up and started thinking about my husband. At first, they were random, dreamy thoughts. Nothing too specific – just scenes of our time together floating through my mind.

Then, I thought to myself, “hmmm… he hasn’t said ‘I love you,’ in a while.” I thought some more about it. He’s told me I amaze him and that he’s grateful to be with me, but not ‘I love you.’ And, my mind went to that Bad Place:

Maybe it’s a big deal…I should tell him I love him, it goes both ways…I wonder whether he will fall out of love with me some day. Most relationships are destined for failure these days. I’d rather him tell me he doesn’t love me now than years from now. It would hurt a lot less.

Ok, so now I’m awake. My heart is beating so hard you’d think I had been running for half an hour. And, I was. I was running – in circles, mentally. Sound familiar?

I’ve always thought of myself as really relaxed and easygoing. When friends came to me for advice, I’d watch as they freaked out over some relationship issue or problem at work. Inwardly, I would feel sorry for them and thank god I didn’t worry like that.

I knew people who were anxious when I was young and I vowed to never be like that. So I became attached to seeing myself as calm, cool, and collected.

Then, when I was in my mid twenties I took a meditation class. In that class, I uncovered feelings of anxiety I didn’t even know I had! I never knew that anxiety was often running in the background while I went through my days.

I had learned to ignore the feelings of worry and dread in order to appear carefree and “together.”

I began to see how large a part anxiety played in my life. I felt really anxious when I wanted to say “no” to people (I’m not great at saying no!).

If a friend invited me to a party and I didn’t feel like going, I would feel anxious and think, if I say “no” she won’t like me, or she’ll think I’m no fun and then not invite places anymore. Sometimes the anxiety would keep me from giving any answer at all. Then I’d be stuck in a bind and feel even worse.

During a great conversation with a cute guy years ago, I realized I hadn’t heard most of what he said. Instead, I was trying to hide that I was nervous and was off in my own little world. I realized then that anxiety was getting in the way of my relationships and that I needed to do something about it.

Once I started paying attention I’d feel the anxiety I’d been living with, without even knowing it. Sometimes it felt worse at first to feel it. But over time I found I could ease the anxiety and not let it completely take over.

So how can you ease your anxiety? I know it can be hard! But it is possible. Here are some simple steps that can get you started:

1. Acknowledge it. Once you start feeling anxious (you know, your heart starts beating faster, your thoughts begin to spin out of control, etc), don’t deny the feeling – recognize it. It helps me if I write down how I’m feeling, and think about why I’m worried. It also helps to tell someone I trust.

2. Take a Step. When you’re feeling anxious, counter the negative feelings with a positive action. For instance, if you’re worried about a meeting you haven’t scheduled, take out your date book and pencil in a time to schedule it. Then, go back to sleep.

3. Get Physical. Go for a run or a brisk walk. The fresh air and physical activity will give your body and mind something to do – other than worry!

4. Pamper Yourself. Take a nice, long bath or give yourself a pedicure. Turn on your favorite music or have a glass of wine.

5. Meditate. Meditation can be as simple as noticing your breath as you inhale and exhale. You can even start with what my father used to say, “take a deep breath!”

This has helped me to feel more relaxed and stay connected with people.

6. Lastly, if you feel anxious about your anxiety (like “oh no! I’m worrying too much! I should stop worrying. People/men won’t want to be around me if I feel like this!” – I used to think like that!)

…First of all, you’re not alone – most of us get anxious now and then. That calm, mellow friend of yours probably feels anxious too. Easing your anxiety can take time. Being patient with yourself is half the battle!

And soon, without all that worry, you’ll have room for more fulfilling relationships, more fun, appreciation of what you already have, and not to mention, a better night’s sleep.

I love Shana, and you can find her at

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  1.  #1Mercedes on April 14, 2011 at 6:48 am

    I love this. I love to meditate and relax…I love how I feel and look and sound when I’m relaxed. Mmmmm….I’ve been very relaxed lately but that nice long bath, favorite music and glass of wine sounds good anyway…maybe that’s what I’ll do with my night tonight. 🙂

    Nice article!

    Much Love,

  2.  #2Femininepower on April 14, 2011 at 7:09 am

    So do Ms. M so do I.

  3.  #3Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 7:12 am

    Good morning Sirens 🙂

    i love this article! i used to have a lot of anxiety…and sometimes i still get it…but since I’ve found Rori’s material and i’ve been listening to the Kelly Howell meditations it’s basically gone away…yay…and if i do start feeling anxious i know it’s time to listen again…i’m also able to catch myself in the moment and realize what is actually going on and that dissipates it somewhat too 🙂

    Having anxiety over “relationships” is something i’ve always had…and it feels good to have a different way to BE and not have the need for so much anxiety

  4.  #4Mel on April 14, 2011 at 7:27 am

    Hi Jilly,

    Which meditation (from Kelly Howell) do you recommend for anxiety?

  5.  #5Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 7:31 am

    Hey Mel!:)

    i like the prayer one…it encompasses everything..the desire one is good too…but so is the relationship one lol… was did you end up doing so you weren’t home?? that was last night wasn’t it?

  6.  #6Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 7:34 am

    PG!! i’ve missed you! :)…hope you have a good lunch date today…i’m glad you feel excited about it 🙂
    (from the other thread)

  7.  #7Mel on April 14, 2011 at 7:41 am

    Hi Jilly,

    I posted here (#479):

    I agree though that Rori’s tools have helped a lot with the relationship anxiety. I think it’s because I feel like I have some control back. Not over him, but over ME. I have choices.

  8.  #8Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 7:45 am

    ok this is interesting…i want to share…

    so i ended things with pipeliner last week because it just wasnt the same for me and he wanted me to come visit him and i said everytime we talked on the phone he would bring it up and it felt very draining…that was a tuesday i think

    then on friday he called and it felt so good to hear from him and i was missing him because i couldn’t help but compare the “physical connection” with hotpilot…i was missing my connection with pipeliner…

    but by monday pipeliner was acting like i was his girlfriend again and wanting to talk and text all day and telling me how much he loves me and how much it hurts that i wouldnt come visit him and all it did was PUSH me further away…i felt smothered

    then the last few days he keeps texting how hurt he is and he hopes this new guy is worth hurting him over and that it hurts cause he knows i love him (pipeliner)…and on and last night i just said we have to say goodbye…it felt soooo draining 🙁 but made me realize that it was definitely the right choice for me ….

    note to self….never become the convincer…it’s so draining when someone is trying to convince you to do something 🙁

    thank you Alonka and Camile for reminding me of how i felt about things…even when i would forget

  9.  #9Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 7:47 am

    Mel…totally i agree! i’ve stopped doing the things that would cause anxiety and i feel more in control knowing where my boundaries are and not worrying about “him” or “hims” lol k i’m going to go read your post! 🙂

  10.  #10Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 7:49 am

    Correction in post 8…

    pipeliner and i were never exclusive but he was calling and texting and talking like i was his girlfriend..hope that makes sense

  11.  #11LD on April 14, 2011 at 7:52 am


    funny you mentioned that because the more I get involved with HotArmyGuy, the more ministerCD seems to be calling and texting and acting like we’re together even though he’s the one who has been vague about the dating other people thing up until now….

  12.  #12Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 7:57 am

    Mel…i loved that 🙂 im not sure if this is how it happened but i could actually see you getting his text and being like..”ok…time to go! with a smile on your face like you are doing something bad..getting your dogs and off you go…feeling happy with yourself…like you just did something sneaky and fun 🙂 “

  13.  #13Femininepower on April 14, 2011 at 7:59 am

    RE 12 I prefer mysterious instead of sneaky.

  14.  #14Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 8:01 am

    LD…how does it make you feel about ministerCD? and i was catching up on the other thread about hotarmyguy and i loved it!!

    and i loved what you posted about trusting yourself im not sure of the exact post number……and i’m having some similar feelings with hotpilot…i trust myself enough and love myself enough to follow my feelings and my heart and i don’t have to trust anything else and i’m free to not worry about where things are going..but in the “meantime” things feel awesome and good! 🙂

  15.  #15Mel on April 14, 2011 at 8:03 am

    Yeah, that’s totally what I did! Perhaps my “intention” was not exactly where it should be, but it worked to get me in a better state of mind…so I’m forgiving myself for having ulterior motives. 🙂

    Another energy shift… last night, he got home late from work around midnight. Normally I would wait up for him, but last night I just went to bed. I was tired! It actually felt good to just go to bed and do something DIFFERENT. I wonder if it felt different for him to come home to me asleep?

  16.  #16Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 8:03 am

    femininepower @ 13….hmmmm that’s something my friend FW would say 😉

    FW was very particular with words 😉

  17.  #17Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 8:06 am

    Mel!!! i think you are doing awesome…and at this point who cares why you did what you did…it made you feel better and sometimes it brings out the little kid in us when we do things like that and keeps it light and fun cause we can laugh about it….wahoo!! 🙂

  18.  #18Femininepower on April 14, 2011 at 8:06 am

    Thats me, same person. In this case it is because I have seen CCarter suggest that men like mysterious, they find it irresistible. Sneaky feels devious and having an agenda to me, as in doing something wrong not different.

  19.  #19Mel on April 14, 2011 at 8:07 am



    I do believe you’ve increased your degree of difficulty. Rori’s tools are genius because men really respond to this.

    I like what you said about the act of being “convinced” feeling draining. No one likes to feel manipulated or controlled. I must remember this next time I try to convince my husband of anything!

  20.  #20Femininepower on April 14, 2011 at 8:08 am

    What I have noticed with myself is that I procrastinate with things I believe is going to be difficult. That creates anxiety for me and although I have tried it seems I have an agenda to sabotage myself. As such I want until the last minute and get angry though most times I get the thing done. One example is taxes. In this case I know I hate to fill forms.

  21.  #21Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 8:11 am

    ok…i agree femininepower…but sneaky can be FUN!! just sayin’ 🙂

  22.  #22LonePlum on April 14, 2011 at 8:15 am

    Bully Proof Philosophy…
    “Why should we rebel against our source of positivity?”

    Reminds me I heard husbands say their wives are bullies. Which frustrates the wives, who feel it so unfair. All they do is killing themselves running the household..
    I can see how their over functioning is resented like bullying. Their disrespected husband are told over and over he does everything wrong. He is made feel a crap.
    The more he is bullied, the less he “gets it” right. A vicious circle.

    Letting go off control is also very relaxing. For both lol 😉


  23.  #23Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 8:15 am

    just depends on how ya take it i guess 🙂

    Mel…thanks! and yes i have a whole new perspective on the “convincer side of things” CC talks about this in his ebook…

    but Rori talks about the relationship bubble as if we lean forward he has no choice but to lean back…

    and CC says when one person becomes the “resister” it’s hard for the other person not to become the “convincer”

    very interesting…

  24.  #24LD on April 14, 2011 at 8:16 am


    I have mixed feelings about ministerCD. I still like him, but I have this feeling like “he had his chance and didn’t take it” and now HotArmyGuy is so stepping up. I know that sounds harsh, but the more I communicate with HotArmyGuy on all levels, the more ministerCD’s vagueness and only talking about sex annnoys me.

    Things feel so relaxed an natural with HotArmyGuy. I don’t have any anxiety about him. I feel good when I’m with him and when I’m not I still feel secure. I don’t wonder what he’s doing or how he feels about me. It’s just so EASY I can’t really explain it. When we’re together we laugh and giggle like teenagers and then we both point that out and laugh about us acting like teenagers at 45.

    Last night he came to see me and at the end of the date we were making out in his car saying good night. My kids were at my house and he lives an hour away, so sex was not really an option unless we got a hotel room or had sex in his car. We joked about that and then he stopped laughing and took my face into his hands and said “you deserve so much more than just a quickie in a hotel room or a car. Of course if we were able to go to your house or mine right now, I’d love to show you how beautiful you are to me. But since that’s not an option, I’m perfectly happy to come down and take you to dinner, spend time with you and then drive home without having sex because this is about so much more than sex for me.”

    *****SIGH***** : )

  25.  #25Femininepower on April 14, 2011 at 8:16 am

    Mel or jilly what do you see as the difference between convincing and inspiring? I have read another coach suggesting changing oneself to inspire change in another but I am curious how see it unfolding in the real world. My other dilemma is that I understand that guys negotiate and that in my mind could come across as trying to convince.

  26.  #26Femininepower on April 14, 2011 at 8:18 am

    LD I saw before where Daria talks about the ping pong effect when there are only two. Has any difficulties come up with HotArmyGuy yet? So you know how he fights.

  27.  #27LD on April 14, 2011 at 8:22 am


    I usually have more than 2, but just haven’t really had anyone else ask me out lately. I haven’t had any difficulties with HotArmyGuy yet, but funny you mentioned how he fights because he said that was the one thing he was curious about with me-how I fight. He says I seem so perfect for him in every other way, but that how a couple fights can make or break a relationship. But so far we just laugh all of the time…

  28.  #28Femininepower on April 14, 2011 at 8:23 am

    RE 23 Thanks for your perspective and comparisons. What I find sad though is how intense my feelings get when I want to lean forward. I have had one who waited more than a year to come back. I find that really challenging and disappointing, especially when it is a guy that I really want to stay. It is really disheartening to think that I would want to wait that long because the relationship is worth it. I have always chosen to walk away and close down.

  29.  #29Lily T. on April 14, 2011 at 8:24 am

    @LD # 24:

    I don’t know about you, but I’m falling in love with HotArmyGuy by just reading what you write about him. Sigh. 🙂

  30.  #30Femininepower on April 14, 2011 at 8:25 am

    I wonder if exploring a hot topic with him and how he or you have dealt with it in the past could get you there?

  31.  #31Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 8:27 am

    AWWWWWW big happy sigh for LD and Hotarmyguy!!!! 🙂

    FP…i want to touch on this question more in post 25 but i have to get to my workout…ill be back

    but i think it depends on each scanario…if i was ready to work it out with pipeliner i’m sure we could have negotiated…but the convincer thing was interesting and CC talks about how there is nothing a woman can say to a man in a “having the talk” conversation to make him decided to commit..(do you know what part i’m talking about?) well that’s how it felt with pipeliner…it’s like he thought if he told me how he felt about me and “us” enough then i would change my mind…but it was too much..if he had backed off “leaned back a little lol” it would have given me space to miss him and i would have i’m sure of it…and things would have been harder for me

    k i’m typing and my mind is a hundred miles an hour and i’m not sure if i’m making sense lol..k i’ll be back

  32.  #32Mel on April 14, 2011 at 8:29 am

    “when one person becomes the “resister” it’s hard for the other person not to become the “convincer”

    The challenge then becomes when we stop “convincing,” the other person may take a LONG time before they stop resisting. I’ve heard so many ladies say how they felt the boat was dead in the water and not going anywhere.

    What was CC’s solution to this?



    I see inspiring as when someone is moved to change not because we asked them to, or convinced them we are right, but that they have chosen to be different because of something they admired and wanted to embrace.

    convincing- has an agenda attached
    inspiring- you often don’t even know when you do it.

  33.  #33LD on April 14, 2011 at 8:31 am


    I know, right? He is so amazing. Last night he asked if he could take me on a vacation because he was thinking about how hard I work and being a single mom too and thought I really deserved some relaxation and pampering….

    Good looking, funny, smart and a great kisser doesn’t hurt either. I was thinking last night that it’s almost like I ordered him from a catalog…

    I wrote a list of things I’d like to have in a man about a year ago and since then I’ve been attracting more and more men with qualities from that list. They’ve had progressively more of the items on the list as I’ve opened myself up to true initmacy…

  34.  #34Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 8:33 am

    FP @28…awww that post makes me want to give you a big hug i don’t know if you are a huggy person 🙂 but…i can feel your vulnerability and sadness?…i don’t feel that from you too much…but it feels good to connect to you through your feelings..

    that’s what i love about this stuff…we get to experience each other through our feelings here on the blog..and know what the difference is

  35.  #35Mariposa on April 14, 2011 at 8:34 am

    I’m getting ready to go away with Iowa for the weekend, and this post couldn’t be a better reminder to me of just how tight I can get with anxiety I create.

    I am a Siren Goddess-
    I am the YUMMY PIE!
    I love me, I love me, I love me,
    and anything that is right for me is the right answer. I only need to be honest with myself.
    see you all again next week!

    Blessings to Sirens on siren island!

  36.  #36Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 8:35 am

    k one more…

    LD..that’s what Alonka said to me about hotpilot….
    Alonka “seems like you ordered him from a catalog”
    ME: i think i did 🙂

  37.  #37Renie on April 14, 2011 at 8:36 am


    What a beautiful thing for him to say! I know that had to make you feel so very wonderful and special. That’s awesome!!!

  38.  #38Lily T. on April 14, 2011 at 8:39 am

    #33: That’s inspiring LD. I may try that.

  39.  #39Mariposa on April 14, 2011 at 8:39 am

    “this is about so much more for me.”
    OMG, so beautiful- this is a REAL man, stepping up. Sure makes it easy to see the difference from other men. CD works- sometimes the comparison makes it so much easier to appreciate a good man when he comes along.
    Brava! I feel so much happiness that you found a guy who is so wonderful!

  40.  #40Femininepower on April 14, 2011 at 8:43 am

    RE 34 I have always been afraid of vulnerability being the one rejected in the family I have always tried to be tough to protect myself, why I had originally embraced the Warrior personality type. I have also stuffed myself with food to avoid the feelings and am still afraid of them. That is my awareness why I am convinced that it is best for me to lean back until I can heal my sadness. Tearyeyed.

  41.  #41Brenda on April 14, 2011 at 8:49 am

    I got a chance to flirt already, and it’s not even noon yet! LOL!

    I was laying in bed talkin with my Mom with the door open, just hanging up, when I heard a man’s voice outside. I went out and there was Steve, the landscaper. He was very nice, down to earth, and apparently single and interested! 🙂 We talked for about 15 minutes, mostly about dogs, feeding dogs, and my favorite discount grocery store. I didn’t even have a bra on!! 🙂

    I made a point to tell him I’m about to move, and he lingered even longer. 🙂 Then when he said bye I was real bold…you know, the Goddess of Overfunctioning.

    I saw the name of his business on the back of his sweatshirt, and I looked it up on the internet and emailed him, giving him my number! LOL! He is the owner of the business. So I feel really good about it, cuz I felt positive vibes from him. He is about 6 feet tall, with gray hair and a goatee. He looks 50-55.

    I’m going over to my Mom’s this afternoon. We’re going to enjoy the weather by the pond then go for a ride. She’s going to just ride with me while I go to the interview for…

    A live in position! I am being considered to be a roommate to 3 special needs women in their 20s! I would just be responsible from 11 pm to 7 am.

    I feel really good about it.

  42.  #42Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 8:54 am

    FP….awwww…i’m going to give you a big hug if you want one or not!! ((((HUGS))))) your post 40 made me get teary eyed! i love your vulnerability…

  43.  #43LD on April 14, 2011 at 8:54 am


    that’s exactly what CDing has done for me. It helps me appreciate the good ones and see which ones are stepping up and figure out what I do and don’t want in a relationship.

    When I realized how HotArmyGuy was stepping up, I CRIED my eyes out. I realized I DO deserve it and felt like the hard work I’ve done on myself for the past almost 3 years was paying off. It was such an intense emotional release.

    I don’t know what will happen with HotArmyGuy, but I do know 2 things for sure: First, I will never accept crumbs again from any man. And secondly I will always appreciate the good ones from now on.

    I have broken my pattern of “hiring bad men to help me punish myself”. I feel gratitude and joy that I can allow good men to give to me and care for me and know I deserve it. Thank you Universe!

  44.  #44Femininepower on April 14, 2011 at 8:59 am

    Thanks Jilly. Touching is my No. 1 Love Language.

  45.  #45Mel on April 14, 2011 at 9:02 am

    Yay Brenda!

    LOL, I’m always self-conscious with no bra, but I think guys often dig it!

  46.  #46Mel on April 14, 2011 at 9:05 am

    The blog feels lighter and flowy today. I’m liking it!

  47.  #47Lilybelle on April 14, 2011 at 9:09 am



    I am sighing with you. 😉


  48.  #48kaitlyn on April 14, 2011 at 9:10 am

    40 FemW

    I’ve done both. Stuffed myself and starved myself. I found that working out was the cure. And it took me about 6 months to like it even though I started seeing results. I guess you can say it took me 6 months to feel them.

  49.  #49Brenda on April 14, 2011 at 9:12 am


    L:OL! Yeah, I think they do dig it with no bra! At least I had a heavy sweatshirt on, or I wouldn’t have cum outside at all.

  50.  #50Rori Raye on April 14, 2011 at 9:16 am

    Go Brenda! Love, Rori

  51.  #51Rori Raye on April 14, 2011 at 9:17 am

    Brava LD! Love, Rori

  52.  #52sweetmandm on April 14, 2011 at 9:24 am

    Brenda- I am hoping the very best for you about the job!! I also look forward to hearing more about the distinguished sounding man with the goatee!! 😉

  53.  #53sweetmandm on April 14, 2011 at 9:24 am

    I love goatees! hmmmm….

  54.  #54Femininepower on April 14, 2011 at 9:44 am

    kaitlyn I have been working out for years. Nowadays I get up at 4:00 a.m. to do it.

  55.  #55Brenda on April 14, 2011 at 9:55 am


    I’m taking notes! I want to be in that place with actually enjoying workouts. At my size, moving my body is so uncomfortable. I hope to get a membership at the Y soon so I can swim again! I love swimming, and then there’s no pressure on my joints, etc.

  56.  #56Femininepower on April 14, 2011 at 9:57 am

    I just reached out to someone I have not heard from in 3 months but we started out with me doing most of the calling. He ended with I love you which he tends to do most of the times, and that he will call. I said “I feel happy with a man who keeps his word” and he repeated himself. This is a really masculine man who I have done a lot of masculine things with. I was feeling really vulnerable after writing above and wanted to connect with someone so I thought what the heck. He played in the beginning suggesting that I had not returned his calls. I shared about my dad and he suggested that maybe for most of my life I played mother to too many people. I accepted that and told him I had definitely changed that about myself. I shared about my dad and facing the reality of losing him and he said I guess you will be taking care of them for life. I shared if that is my purpose in life I will accept it. I also shared that it feels good when friends call especially when it is special ocassions like birthdays. He apologized saying he had forgotten and that he had forgotten his ex wife’s. I asked you really forgot and he confirmed twice that he had.

    Why did I reach out after deciding the delete his number and that I would forget him? I wanted to see if I could go there without any expectations. I believe I partially achieved that and relieved some internal anxiety. Just the thought of talking to him or seeing him gives me anxiety. He is the one who would literally jump on me when we have not seen each other for an extended period of time. I am now hoping that he does call and start initiating dates again, am now noticing my expectations. Sigh……

  57.  #57Femininepower on April 14, 2011 at 10:00 am

    I should have said jump on me like a happy puppy. His energy and worldview is really infectious.

  58.  #58Brenda on April 14, 2011 at 10:16 am

    I really relate to this post about anxiety. I tend to feel that way, and I have become far more aware of anxiety. Leaning back with my body in conversation has gone a long way toward reminding me to feel relaxed and aware in the moment.

  59.  #59kaitlyn on April 14, 2011 at 10:30 am

    55 Brenda

    Especially in the beginning, do what workouts are fun to you. The key is get moving. Yep, stuff will hurt at first, but that means you’re getting used to it. Rome wasn’t built in a day. Keep at it and as you go along, you’ll see what’s up.

  60.  #60Rusty on April 14, 2011 at 10:33 am

    “Reminds me I heard husbands say their wives are bullies. Which frustrates the wives, who feel it so unfair. All they do is killing themselves running the household..
    I can see how their over functioning is resented like bullying. Their disrespected husband are told over and over he does everything wrong. He is made feel a crap.
    The more he is bullied, the less he “gets it” right. A vicious circle.”

    My ex was like that. It was just her nature. But talking to her, I also got the clue that the reason behind he way she approached things was that in her mind, if she praised the guy, he would get a big head. If she didn’t ride him, he would get lazy and let her down. If anyone she respected disagreed with me, she took their side. Heck, I got so frustrated with that, started writing it down, and then if I was right or wrong, I would write that down. After being proven right numerous times in a row I sat down with her and showed her this. I thought she had taken it to heart, but she went right back to doing the same thing. I eventually gave up.

    So control was a very big thing to her, and it cost her our relationship.

  61.  #61Luzydel on April 14, 2011 at 10:38 am

    The more I work on myself, the more alone I am. This is not a rant, I actually am enjoying this moment of solitude. But it is becoming obvious that since I am setting boundaries, saying no to those things that make me feel bad and loving myself, the less men/ people I get to “keep” around. Honesty and loving one self can be very ‘lonely’ but so fullfilling.

  62.  #62LD on April 14, 2011 at 10:43 am


    You will go through periods of solitude while working on yourself. What you will find is that after these periods, a new crop of men will show up who are more suited to the changes you’ve made. Each cycle they get better and better until you find more good things about the ones who show up than bad things.

  63.  #63Mel on April 14, 2011 at 11:30 am

    Rusty Re:60

    Perhaps you were both attached to being right? I don’t know the whole story, so maybe that’s not the case, but that was my first impression.

    I’m so guilty of this too. I’ve learned that when I try to “convince” someone to my way of thinking, even if it just with the intent that they understand where I’m coming from, that this can be perceived as a form of control. The other person resists being controlled by either defending or withdrawing.

    Just a thought. What do you think?

  64.  #64Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 11:52 am

    k back from my workout…

    and i’m catching up on idol…and WOW..Jennifer Lopez is living in her zone of genius!!

    awesome man, children, success prior to those idol, new music video and hair commercials, eyelash commercials…and being voted most BEAUTIFUL woman in the world????!!!!!

    i love it!! and She’s so authentic and warm and open and vulnerable 🙂

  65.  #65Rusty on April 14, 2011 at 11:53 am

    @#63: Mel

    I think everyone wants to be right, but I don’t think I was hung up on being right. With her, it was more a fear of being run over by the guy. So afraid that the guy would get the upper hand so much that he would then control her. It was in everything she did. She was super sensitive to being “trespassed upon” and wanted her ounce of blood if you did, but she would never ever apologize if she did anything wrong or hurt me in any way.

    All too often if something went wrong, she would even make accusations of sabotage. I mean little stuff too. Like she was at the neighbor’s with a camera, and it wasn’t working. This was years ago when you had to see the film advancing by the numbers in the little window on top.

    She had loaded the film wrong. This was for a friend’s baby shower. SO she brings me the camera and wants me to fix it. Now here’s the part where everybody else always being right, etc.. She tells me that you can’t open the camera or it will ruin the film. She was told this next door by the older lady who lived there.

    I inform her that no, it will only expose the film that is pulled from the roll. She insists that it IS going to ruin the film. I let her know that this is the only way to do it because she loaded it wrong and the film hasn’t advanced because of that.

    So I open the camera and she gets hysterical and accuses me of trying to ruin the baby shower she has thrown for her friend and that she isn’t going to have pictures now and on and on.

    I calmly fix the problem and advance the camera a couple of frames so that her first picture will take.

    She’s practically in tears and takes the camera next door. Doesn’t enjoy herself because she is sure the camera isn’t going to capture pictures or that they will be ruined from the film being exposed.

    Sure enough, she gets the film developed and the pictures are fine. She couldn’t even apologize for going off on me and then treating me like crap for a day or two after. Couldn’t admit that I had been right all along either. I didn’t care about being right, but when your spouse has this thing where it’s like they always believe other people over you, and you keep getting proven right, it becomes a respect issue. It’s like dieing from a 1,000 paper cuts.

  66.  #66Rusty on April 14, 2011 at 11:56 am

    “and i’m catching up on idol…”

    My wife was really mad last week when that girl got voted off and the judges had wasted their save on the red headed guy. She kept saying, “I knew they wasted that save! I knew they were going to need it later!”

    But all’s well that ends well because that girl got a recording contract already.

  67.  #67Kari on April 14, 2011 at 11:56 am

    I need some advice. I have been seeing this guy for 6mths. He started pulling away, so I started leaning back. He is coming back around and has been doing all the texting and calling. But my problem is that we made plans last weekend for this coming up weekend and he has not mentioned anything about the plans. I don t know if I should mention something to him about our plans or wait and see if he will mention it. I don’t want to lean in too much. I’m not sure if that would be considered leaning in. I would love some advice. Btw we have talked and texted every day.

  68.  #68Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    RE 65 Rusty I totally get where you are cominig from reading those comments but I would assume that her take on the incident might be different, I wouldn’t debate it with you though. What I am curious about is if she had said the same thing, just with a different tone and maybe was just crying or sad for the two days without treating you as crap do you think your memory of the incident would be different even if she didn’t apologize?

  69.  #69Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    luzydel or anybody else…you might be interested in this book called

    “Working on Yourself Doesn’t Work” by Ariel and Shya Kane…

    just a different take on things…they also have a radio show called “Being Here” that’s awesome to listen to

    they are their own thing but it reminds me Byron Katie, Eckhart Tolle, Abraham (LOA)…lots of good stuff

  70.  #70Mel on April 14, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    Rusty Re: 63

    🙂 That sounds like it was difficult.

    Just curious… I’m beginning to understand just how important it is for guys to feel respected and appreciated. So my question is… sometimes my husband will try to “fix” a problem I’m telling him about by offering a solution. I don’t want to disrespect him by simply dismissing it, but sometimes the suggestion just doesn’t fit with how I feel or what I need. What would you suppose is the best way to gently disagree so as not to cause hurt feelings?

  71.  #71Daria on April 14, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    U guys I woke up to a voicemail from sexy cd wishing me a gewat day and hoors to see me again soon!

    Wow for boumdaries and attraction!

    I thought id never hear from him agaim

  72.  #72Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Kari I think this is him now showing you his real self. It might be that he feels he can relax a bit now after all that time. His actions seem to be good with the everyday contact. I would be curious about why I need the confirmation about the weekend?

  73.  #73Mel on April 14, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Sorry Rusty, that was supposed to be a frowny face… That must appear very rude of me!

  74.  #74Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Brenda…YAY!! you go gettem! 🙂 you sound so happy 🙂

    FP…in post 56 sounds like you were experimenting which is part of Rori’s program…that’s great..and it’s ok to have feelings of wanting/hoping for something…it’s just what we “do” with those feelings…right? 🙂

    “I am now hoping that he does call and start initiating dates again, am now noticing my expectations. Sigh…”

  75.  #75LD on April 14, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Wow, HotArmyGuy is really helping me heal some deep stuff I think. I have been crying A LOT after our dates, but I don’t feel sad. I feel happy. It just feels like all of this stuff is being dug up and released. I feel really peaceful and relaxed afterwards.

    I’ve never experienced this before, has anyone else?

  76.  #76Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    Jilly I know but it is just that I prefer to keep my commitments to myself and respect my own boundaries. Reaching out felt it a hole in my boundary that I do not want to affect my vibe. Also my self-esteem has been climbing and I don’t want it to go back down by doing anything that might lower my status.

  77.  #77Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    RE 75 I know what you mean and I wish I was wearing your shoes. You seem to be doing so well.

  78.  #78Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    YAY Daria 🙂 yay for sexy cd’s and good messages 🙂

    Welcome Kari 🙂

  79.  #79Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    FP @76….i totally get what you are saying

  80.  #80LD on April 14, 2011 at 12:17 pm


    It still feels weird WHILE I am crying. I don’t know where all of this stuff is coming from…

  81.  #81Kari on April 14, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    Thanks Femininewomen for the response. I guess since he hasnt mention it agian, that he is withdrawing. It seems like the more I lean back the better response I get from him. What would be a good way to mention the plans we made?

  82.  #82Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    RE I guess it depends on who made the plans. Maybe you made them or suggested them?

  83.  #83Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    LD Maybe it is because you believe that one should cry because of sadness not happiness?

  84.  #84Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    RE 81 This comment “It seems like the more I lean back the better response I get from him” is very important as to how attraction works for him.

  85.  #85Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    LD…i haven’t but one of my best friends did when she met her husband (not trying to say anything here)

    but her story is…she was always dating guys that weren’t for her and when she met her husband after week 3 she started to break down and cry and she couldn’t understand all the emotions (at that point i was like WHA?? you cried in front of him?? after sex?? oh its over for sure) (this was 3 yrs ago before RR) lol

    by date 3 they were exclusive and basically knew…had sex after 3 weeks…they married after a year of dating and she is always happy and drama free and she is still in love and she married her best friend

    and this is a girl who always had drama and was wild and crazy …now she is peaceful and happy

  86.  #86Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    i meant FW 🙂

  87.  #87Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    LD CCarter says everything comes up in the presence of love.

  88.  #88sweetmandm on April 14, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    LD- That is what I was trying to express I guess with what I feel is going on with Dr.H. I have the best time feel good and freedom and some more of me opens up a little more and it feels right, but then it also feels a little messy, like the world as I’ve known it is changing around me, it feels a little messy at times. I only know that I am experiencing things outside of my comfort zone, but that I know are helping me all the way around. I have even felt it cross over into my family relationships some.

    I have been feeling a whole lot of emotions and actually expressing them. Oh no! Watch me, I may even start crying during watching movies like my girlfriends. LOL! 🙂

  89.  #89Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    Rusty…i felt soo surprised Pia was voted off…but yes she has it made 🙂 ….still catching up on idol…

  90.  #90Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    LD I wouldn’t worry where it is coming from as long as it does not feel bad. My opinion, is the key is that it is coming and that you notice it and don’t stuff it down. Also stay curious about it and my sense is that your inner knowing will soon clue you in on what is happening. It could be your inner child crying about something.

  91.  #91LD on April 14, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    wow Jilly and FW, thanks.

    I’ve always been analytical and not emotional. I’ve never cried unless I was sad with the exception of a couple of big proud mama moments with my kids. This has been so weird. I have not cried in front of him, but FELT like it last night when he said something really sweet. I told him he was gonna make me cry but in a good way and he was OK with that. He says he loves how un touch with my feelings I am!

    It’s really mind blowing for someone like me. I feel like crying right now and don’t feel sad, just a sort of happy, excited, nervous, overwhelmed gush of emotions.

  92.  #92Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    sweetmanmd….yes…i love that!!!!…it feels right and messy at times too…that’s how i feel with hotpilot too…

  93.  #93LD on April 14, 2011 at 12:32 pm


    EXACTLY-I also feel so much love for my kids and family etc while this is happening. Maybe my heart is just opening up and filling up for the first time so much that it is overflowing.

  94.  #94Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    After a talk with my friend earlier today I felt the overwhelmed gush of emotions and had to go take a cry myself. I was talking about how I had finally been able to forgive my father and family for rejecting me and how I was finally able to acknowledge to myself last week in the hospital that I deeply love my father. He suggested that I might be loving him out of obligation but I know that is not true. It is just a deep knowing (here comes the tears again). LD I don’t want to make any assumptions but it could be your deep knowing about what you want in love and dealing with it right there in front of you without realizing that you could actually create it.

  95.  #95LD on April 14, 2011 at 12:35 pm


    AW HUGS! We’re crying together right now!

  96.  #96Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    I don’t know what is happening to me today I just feel really emotional like a cry baby like I have not been for a while. I feel really scared about that side of me. I know I don’t like feeling vulnerable and reaching out for help and this person I spoke to today is the kind who thinks of himself as tough and strives to be self-sufficient. So reflective of how I have been.

  97.  #97Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    aww…LD…(((HUGS))) for you too! 🙂 i love your vulnerability too…both you and FW today seem so open and vulnerable and authentic today especially…it feels awesome 🙂

  98.  #98Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    all i’m sayin is that i was posting number 97 before i even read 94 95 96….awwww 🙂

  99.  #99Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    Where’s SLV? she’s MIA

  100.  #100LD on April 14, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    My son just came home with great news and now the tears are flowing like a waterfall. This is crazy. Like you FW, I was the strong self sufficient one my whole life….

  101.  #101Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    He told me you have been the mother for everyone for too long. I forgot how he put it but it seems like he was saying their is no childhood/freedom/happiness. I told him that I had changed some of that about myself to the point of walking away when things don’t feel good to me. But his words really resonated with me.

  102.  #102Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    I rally wish I could release all the anxiety that I have pent up over the years. It feels that is my overriding emotion, maybe sadness and anxiety because I have been so angry for so long.

  103.  #103LD on April 14, 2011 at 12:51 pm


    maybe thats what the crying is doing for both of us-releasing the years of pent up anxiety. I feel happy for you!

  104.  #104Kari on April 14, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    Re: 84 Femininewoman: He made the plans. I thought about just asking the following:…. Just wanted to check and see if we are still on for this weekend or if the plans have changed………… I have not got the chance yet to catch up on todays comments but I saw that you had been crying…. I know a good cry sometimes makes me feel better, it lets me release some of the anxiety and tension.

  105.  #105Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    Thank you LD. I really do hope so, I have always been hard on myself. Don’t know if that is your story but I know it is mine and I have always tried to hide myself. Now I even notice myself drifting off to the back even in crowded places.

    Congrats on you son’s news.

  106.  #106Angel Lady on April 14, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    Hi ladies,

    Reading the posts about crying makes me want to share the cutest story about my neice.

    The other day she went into her room and was in there for awhile all qiuet. Her mom went in there and my neice was sitting on the bed very quiet. He mom said… “what’s wrong?”

    And my little neice (5 years old) says all innocent and earnest like… “Mom, do you every feel like you just want to cry? For no reason? My eyes are all teary and I want to cry, but nothing is even wrong.”

    Her mom said it was so cute. And mom had PMS and just said “yes.” And they sat there and cried for a minute together.

    How cute. Even at 5 us girls just need to get emotions out sometimes.

  107.  #107Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    ok…this is something i’ve been thinking about today…

    so hotpilot’s brother is married to a woman who works but when she gets off work at 3 (she’s a teacher) she doesn’t do anything..his brother works long hours and does all the cooking and cleaning…hotpilot doesn’t really like her…

    then on Saturday we went to my parents house and he met my mom…(she really liked him!) anyway they are really wealthy and so i think that…

    because i’ve been my leanback siren self 😉 and not initiated ANYTHING and then he sees my parents house and i think he started wondering if i would expect too much from him or if he wouldn’t be enough??

    but we had a heart to heart the other night and it was like he wanted to be reassured that i was who he thinks i am??

    perhaps…it would have been a good thing for me to express that it feels bad to me to act like a wife… i don’t want to act like a wife until i am one

    the conversation was good…it felt open and sincere…so i didn’t feel bad about it…now i just feel curious

    the other night
    HIM: i really like you
    ME: i really like you too
    HIM: ya…but I think i like you more

    it was sooo cute!!

    it feels like a dance with us…and he is definitely a communicator and i love that…but our intimacy is way more than i’ve ever had i think…and it feels messy and a little scary

    seetmanmd said it very well!! 🙂

    any thoughts??

  108.  #108LD on April 14, 2011 at 12:58 pm


    I LOVE that story! Thanks!

  109.  #109Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    Angel Lady…that is such a cute story…i’m glad you were able to get some support here last night! 🙂

  110.  #110Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    Thanks Kari. I am now sensing that your leaning back on the plans could be a way of showing him that you trust him to take care of the relationship issues. The only thing that is coming to me is if an opportunity presents itself during your conversation it might be okay to say something like “I am happy that you took planned ………… for the weekend, or I really appreciate you planning …………for this weekend”. I am not convinced that initiating a question would be the thing to do though. Suggesting that the plans have changed could communicate lack of trust.

  111.  #111Rusty on April 14, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    @#68: Femininewoman

    I think it was everything, but mostly the constant lack of respect. There were many issues like that, and others that were similar but with less drama.

    Later, I recalled something she said that I had overlooked, but it came back to me and it gave insight into the fact that she had a strong fear of being run over and controlled by a guy. I can understand a woman having a fear like that but you have to deal with it in healthy ways.

    When thinking about yourselves being empowered, think about this. I am 100% sure that man abusing his wife feels empowered. I am sure he is far happier in the relationship than she is.

    So the idea is to deal with your fears in a healthy way. I am so big on honesty and talking about issues like that with the person you are with. If you are to ever experience true love, you are going to have to learn to let go of control and allow yourself to be honest, which of course leaves you vulnerable. But it is a risk you have to take.

  112.  #112Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    oops…typo in 107…i meant Sweetmanmd 🙂

  113.  #113Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    jilly did you say you have CCarter’s From Casual to Committed? He talks about moving from UnConscious Uncertainty to Consciousness Certainty (can’t remember the exact terms). He says you go back and forth between the stages of commitment and men and women arrive there at different times. You comments brought that to mind and you might want to review that information if you have it. Also on the acting like a wife thing some people teach to act as if. I think it is the concept of the Soulmate Secret and Rori also teaches about cleaning out drawers and closets and making space for the soulmate. Unless he is asking you to do something you don’t want to I am not sure what your resistance to “wife” could be or how he could be asking you to act as a wife. Would you be okay saying “I want to be a wife in a year and I am wondering if that timeline is comfortable for you?”. Has he asked for any kind of exclusivity?

  114.  #114Frenchkitty on April 14, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    Hello all!

    I haven’t posted for ages, but had to congratulate you Brenda!

    Re 41 _ how cool you are! Good luck with the job!

    I hate bras! Never wear them, unless a top is really transparent!

    While I’m here, a question to all I’d like to put out there…

    I’m involved in various work projects with my guy, and what’s troubling me is this: how do you stay in girl energy when boy energy is badly needed to make a business work? Does anyone else have this problem?

    Lots of love to you all from France!

  115.  #115Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    Kari…i agree with FW in post 110…see what happens this weekend and go from there…and then express how you feel after he initiates….nice work on leaning back 🙂

    i’ve already expressed to hotpilot that i appreciate him being the man and it makes me feel melty inside (he liked that lol) and that i trust him…and he sits up a bit taller and his chest gets’s soo cute!! (and he’s damn sexy!!)

  116.  #116Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    RE 11 Rusty I don’t understand this comment “When thinking about yourselves being empowered, think about this. I am 100% sure that man abusing his wife feels empowered.”

    I am also wondering if you explained what felt like disrespect to you. I find that dealing with my kids that happens sometimes and they don’t seem to realize that they are being disrespectful. I think different people experience it differently.

  117.  #117Tony on April 14, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    I think what Shana is saying is correct about countering a Neg with a Pos feeling. To elaborate further if she doesn’t mind so there isn’t any confusion, you can’t initially counter a negative feeling with a positive one, it doesn’t work. If you feel lousy and you say to yourself, “I feel good” then you are lying to yourself, and it makes it worse for you. If you are poor and you want to be rich you have to take the steps to get there. You can’t just say you’re rich, because you’re not, so don’t pretend to be something you’re not!…..unless of course you believe it. But you really have to believe it.

    Furthermore, lying to yourself will create more anxiety and confusing eventually leading to surrendering to doing nothing about your situation. So you can for example take steps to feeling more positive acclimate yourself to thinking positive, stay in balance and don’t give up. There is always hope, you just have to find out what works for you.

    Maybe Shana has some great advice and steps on how you can feel positive, worthy and deserving…….it’s all the same thing!! 🙂


  118.  #118Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    AngelLady thanks for sharing that. I feel I never cried much though because of the fear of rejection. I remember myself constantly fighting and projecting strength even in the face of challenges and real fear. I just remember standing up to being bullied even though I was fearful on the playground at elementary school. I grew up with corporal punishment both at home and in school and remember laughing even while being hit at school. Don’t know if that is part of it but I remember myself as putting up a tough exterior though I was always told that I was too sensitive.

  119.  #119Rusty on April 14, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    @#70: Mel

    I get where you are coming from. I know it can bother women when all yu want is somebody to listen and care when you talk about a problem but you are right, we men are fixers. You tell us you are lost, we want to draw a map. Tell us you are hurt, we grab the first aid kit, etc…

    Hearing about your problems and not being able to offer advice makes us feel helpless, a feeling we loathe. We feel like somebody who is watching you drown and we want to grab anything that floats and toss it to you, even an empty 16 oz water bottle. may not help but by tossing it to you we feel like we are at least trying to help. I can’t even tell you how hard it is for a man to be told to do nothing. See what I mean?

    So, I think the best way to handle your situation can be one of two ways. Knowing your guy helps, or maybe even try both ways.

    #1 Let him offer advice, and simply appreciate that this is a sign that he did listen and does care. But don’t feel obligated to follow the advice. If you don’t and it doesn’t go well for you, and you tell him, just start out by saying, “You were right, so please, I need to talk but don’t demean me by saying I told you so. That will only make me feel worse. I just need you to listen to me and then maybe we can talk about what to do.”

    #2 Tell him right off the bat that you need him to just be a friend and listen. Tell him you need a sounding board so that you can work it out in your mind. Tell him that if he wants, he can repeat back to you what you say, in his own words so that hearing him say it may help you work out in your mind what is best. A side benefit of that last part is that it also let’s you know that he was listening.

    I would say maybe just ask him to listen but don’t say anything, just let him know that you need somebody to listen, but man that just makes our stomachs turn.

    Likely what we will do in that case is TRY to listen, and hold you, and do a lot of “Uh-Huhs”, “Mmm-Hmms” and stuff like that while we allow our minds to go blank to protect us from that bad feeling of helplessness. So if you do this, don’t test him because he’s is very likely to say, “Uh…what…ermmm…uh…can you repeat that last part.” This will just hurt your feelings needlessly because he really does care. It’s just a male self defense mechanism.

    It’s part of that same thing that helps us hear when you ask if we want to go for ice cream but can’t hear you ask us to take out the trash. 😉

    Oh, and no offense taken at the smiley face..none at all. There can never be enough smiley faces.

  120.  #120Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    FW…thank you for helping me talk through this…

    ok..what i meant by the “wife” comment was…

    if we were married i would probably dance more…right now i’m more in lean back mode

    and yes i find myself going back and forth between the consciously committed and unconsciously committed too…and it’s usually after we’ve had a strong connection kind of date…lots of hormones and emotions i know he is doing that too…and we give each other our space and everytime we see each other we can’t keep our hands off of each other…but i let him initiate it all but he always has a hand on me or is massaging my back…Rusty talked about this on the other thread…but i love physical touch (that’s one of my love languages too 🙂

    anywho…yes he asked for exclusivity..actually he called me his “hot girlfriend” lol and i brought it up…well if you’re going to call me your girlfriend we should probably get on the same page…I’ve been keeping my options open..
    …so we agreed to be exclusive

    i feel good about exclusivity with him…i always know i have choices and I still CD myself coach…etc.

    what do you think? about the “wife” thing and the dance and the lean back…i won’t initiate but after 5 weeks of him doing EVERYTHING (i’m not yelling btw just enunciating 🙂 paying, driving, calling texting…i feel like i should dance more?

  121.  #121sweetmandm on April 14, 2011 at 1:27 pm

    AL- LOVE the story! I needed that as now I am crying along with FW and LD.

    LD & FW- Rori says it will feel like this. I was getting more scared until I read one of her most recent e-letters, which I often do, because they always have such encouraging, happy endings. She said it can be like that when you are on the right track. These words spoke to me like she was writing to me!!

    Rori’s words (just the highlights)-

    And in the process, she would feel some of the feelings she’d avoided feeling for so long – the feelings she’d kept hidden from herself by working so hard to make the relationship work.

    Part of Rori’s e letter-
    Intimacy can be scary.

    No matter how much we say we want it, we’re really all terrified of getting close to a man.

    We’re afraid he’ll see who we really are – especially the parts we don’t like about ourselves.

    And some of us have so many parts we don’t like that we spend most of our energy trying to keep those parts hidden – not just from men, but from ourselves, too.

    And while Cheryl waited to see if her boyfriend would pick up the oars and pull their boat to shore, all of a sudden, the feelings she’d avoided feeling showed up. Anger. Fear. Confusion.

    She wrote me:

    “Dear Rori, Thank you. Yes, my anger, has always been a problem for me. I feel anger towards men period (inherited it from my family as well). I’m aware, don’t want to hate men, but I have anger. And sometimes I’m yelling, and sometimes I want to throw things. Sometimes I don’t even know I’m angry. I’m afraid I’ll get so angry I’ll scare him away. I know I feel anger towards my boyfriend for things he does and doesn’t do, but some of it is from past relationships and family attitudes. But I don’t want to be angry!! Cheryl”

    I wrote her:

    Cheryl, sometimes we’re angry because, really, we’re scared.

    And anger is a much more powerful, much better feeling emotion than fear.

    Anger can get us into gear.

    Anger can propel us to make changes.

    But, sometimes, we vent our anger on someone else (usually the people closest to us) because we’re really angry at ourselves.

    We’re really angry at our own fear and lack of boundaries.

    When we’re closed off in some ways, we attract relationships that keep that kind of balance and tension – it’s just too scary to get closer.

    So, as you practice what we worked on tonight, you may feel some barriers coming down, and you will feel him come closer to you – it may feel messy and scary and uncomfortable.

    Consider it a gift and as a sign that you’re on the right track.

    Practice visualizing him coming closer to you while your defenses are down. Don’t let him come any closer than you’re comfortable, and take it slow – until you can allow him really close while you’re relaxed and undefended.

    Also – right in line with doing less is SPEAKING less. We women are gifted communicators, but what I’m asking you to do is to learn to get comfortable with silence. Once you do, you’re half-way there.

    Love, Rori

    The most awesome is that it is breaking down walls all over the place for me. DARN RIGHT LD! SCARY! But very exciting and so many things all at the same time! Sometimes I don’t know what to do with myself and then I have to step back and just work the steps that I do now, then I am back to good.

    I think the meditaion thing sounds awesome for me in all of this!!

    FW- That is the kind of stuff that I am experiencing in my family right now. Different people, different circumstances, but the same kind of breaking down of walls and opening up and momnets of freedom. I am even excited to see some possible resolutions wherever I can get them!!

    I am soo filled with joy to be sharing this with you right now!


  122.  #122Mel on April 14, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    Thanks Rusty!

    I’ve tried saying things like “I appreciate your advice, and I’ll consider it.” But sometimes he gets very insistent about the suggestion and that makes me anxious. I know he’s just trying to help, but sometimes it’s just not right for me you know?

    Like for example, we just moved to a new town and I don’t really know anyone. I was lamenting about how I miss my friends and he said “Why don’t you knock on a few doors of the places around and introduce yourself?” Ok… in theory, that would work, but I’m quite shy and just would NOT feel comfortable knocking on random house doors. I have taken steps to make friends here like take some dance classes, go out to the coffee shop, etc… but in that moment, I just wanted some sympathy. And no offense to him, but the solution was totally something that a guy would do, but not me.

    I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but sometimes it’s just not what I need. I find it hard to say that without him getting offended though.

    I like your idea of just saying… “I need a sounding board…” or do you think saying “I have X problem and I need some comfort.” would work?

  123.  #123KS on April 14, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    I am just wondering…..?????

    Has anyone ever started to cry in front of a guy and he TOTALLY IGNORES the fact that you are crying???

    Seriously, what is that all about????/

  124.  #124Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    KS…seriously…what is that all about?? has this happened to you? and how is going with the husband who is staying with you? you are amazing that you could do that….no hope for that to work out right?

  125.  #125Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 1:38 pm

    Fw…and btw we are seeing each other 3 to 4 times a week…and the last time we didn’t see each other for a whole day…he said…”when do i get to see you again?” awww…i love it 🙂

  126.  #126Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    Jilly are you saying you neve call or text him? You just return his calls and respond to texts?

  127.  #127Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    RE 123 That could just be him being flooded with emotions that he does not know how to handle so he does what he does best and that is withdraw.

  128.  #128Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    RE 122 Mel sorry to say it but it is something I have seen done right here in unfriendly New York. I have had it done to me, especially people new to the neighborhood. Doing such new things is something that Dr. Paul encourages in his Women’s Empowerment program.

  129.  #129Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    Mel I have also seen John Gottman talking about accepting influence. Apparently it is a thing that girls do from very early on in life but boys don’t do it so easily. He might be experiencing it as you not allowing him to influence you and as such kind of rejecting him.

  130.  #130Rusty on April 14, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    @#116: FemininewomanNo

    “Rusty I don’t understand this comment “When thinking about yourselves being empowered, think about this. I am 100% sure that man abusing his wife feels empowered.””

    What I meant by that is it is very good to empower yourself and do things that make you feel empowered, but make sure in doing this, that you are not doing things that are abusive to those around you in an attempt to feel empowered, which is what my ex did. I’ve actually known a lot of women that were like that. I remember not long ago that women felt very proud to describe themselves as a B_tch. It was a way of saying that you are not weak and don’t take crap off anybody, or whatever. But so many I knew that did that were really abusive to people in a lot of ways. I am sure that in their mind, they were just being a strong woman.

    “I am also wondering if you explained what felt like disrespect to you.”

    Yes, and I actually talked specifics also. And as I stated, I even made a list of times that she took other people’s sides and it would turn out I was right. even made the comment that, “when I envisioned being married to somebody, I always pictured it being me and her against the world, not her and the world against me.”

    Bottom line is that I never felt like she had my back. And I did talk to her about this. She was very dismissive about it. That was part of her never saying “I’m sorry.” She would say things to try to make it like I was the one with the problem or that I was overreacting, etc…

    Like I said, she made a comment in the past that I had overlooked but it tied right into this stuff and maybe this will help you understand.

    I have posted in a few posts about how when you have conflict, the man is a knight. OK, so if the woman throws on armor, puts up her walls and starts throwing flaming fireballs, what is that knight going to do? He’s going to lower his visor, raise his shield and put his sword at the ready. In other words, he is going to go into self protection mode.

    However, if she is soft, and vulnerable in conflict, that knight is going to become the a chivalrous knight not a warrior knight. He’ll lower his shield, drop the sword, and seek to comfort you. Even in conflict this can be done and I posted a link to a video to illustrate this difference from last season’s bachelor.

    Go to the 7:30 mark and watch. You will see the guy had already offered a rose to one girl which makes her safe from elimination and so now she will have what is called a “home town date” where the bachelor will go meet the girl’s family. Ironically, the girl he gave the rose to is going to be the next Bachelorette so she gets to choose from 25 guys. That is filming as we speak and will air after this season of Dancing with the Stars.

    Anyway, the other to girls are not happy because not only did they not get a rose but their chances went down with that rose being given to somebody else. At this point in the show there are 5 girls left. These three got to be in the Sports illustrated Swimsuit edition. They had 1 hour of sleep before being surprised and woke up, then told that they were going to do this so they were all stressed out and tired already, which really intensifies your personality.

    So as he tries to talk to them, you will see the girl on the right basicaly throw flaming fireballs with her eyes and then give him the cold shoulder. He doesn’t deal with her. In fact she gets eliminated that night. The other girl, as you will see is soft and vulnerable, and so he goes to her to work it out and comfort her at the same time. Now what’s funny is that this girl thought that she would be the one to go home that night, but she ended up being in the final two and was the runner-up. She would have been the next Bachelorette except that when she went home, her friends introduced her to a great guy. You can see that rose ceremony if you click on the thumbnail to the right of the video that says it is the week 7 rose ceremony.

    OK, so anyway, I did say something to this effect to my ex and she said something to the affect that I had a problem with strong women.

    No, it really had nothing to do with that. I like strong women, I want that warrior goddess…but at my side, not fighting with me.

  131.  #131Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    Rusty your comments about dealing with fear in a healthy way is such a CCarter type of advise to women. I totally agree but doing and saying are worlds away, especially when we are not consciously aware of our fears.

  132.  #132Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    Rusty I am not finished reading 130 yet but have to let you know that I have experienced the example of the knight thing. In the past I also remember sitting in front of 3 men in the office and trying to defend myself and was totally crushed. Next when it happened and I did nothing one of the guys jumped to my defense and I was shocked to see how it played out. All I had to do was sit quietly and the lions went at it.

  133.  #133Kyla on April 14, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    Re 123

    My partner explained to me once that when i cry he leaves because he doesn’t know what to do and is afraid of making things worse and also to ‘give me space and privacy’ because that is what he would want me to do if he was upset.

    I told him I feel abandoned and unloved when he leaves and that I wish he would stay and hold me instead. I feel safe and cared for when he does that and he doesn’t panic when he sees tears anymore 🙂

  134.  #134Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    Rusty thank you for explaining that. I totally appreciate how you patiently take your time to provide clarity. I also like the analogy of the warrior goddess by your side and have seen something similar from another coach. I have to say that in real life and in movies I keep hearing about this concept of “being on the man’s side”. Seems like a big issue for you guys.

  135.  #135Kyla on April 14, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    i love feeling messages
    i feel heard when i communicate with them now
    i feel closer to my man and he feels my love more now than before
    i am filled with wonder and surprise at how well they work and how much drama has disappeared from my life since i started using them. why did i avoid my feelings for so many years?!
    i feel open and loving

  136.  #136Femininewoman on April 14, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    Rusty I have to say also that I understand that “I’m sorry, and thank you” are magic words for women to use in relationships. These are the things why I like to read info from different coaches. They have their different take on things but it seems each focusses on different areas of relationships and looking at it from different angles help me in hearing the same thing in a different way. I really like your voice here.

  137.  #137Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    Kyla…yay!! that’s how i feel too 🙂

    and FW yes that is how it has gone until yesterday i helped some friends move and he said to call him and he would see if he was able to help…but the timing was wrong so he couldn’t..

    anyway it was about 3 pm and i decided to call him to let him know how it was going…that was my first!!! and was like…”i was just about to text you asking how it was going” (me..big happy smile)

    then he invited me over after i was finished and i said i would let him know what i thought the timeline looked like…but it was going to be too late…so i text later when i knew more and said i would just go home tonight but it would feel good to see you tomorrow but i could call you on my way home…what do you think? and he said sounds good

    so called him on my way home too lol and we had a really good conversation 🙂

    but yes…he has always been the one to say..”i’ll call you tomorrow” and does what he says…i don’t ever wonder and he sets up dates ahead of time…like on Tuesday…he said i have some options for you but if you dont want to do these we can think of something else..

    ME: ok (big smile) i love options
    HIM: Friday night we can have dinner with my cousin and her husband
    and we can go to a hockey game on Saturday night or go to a band up in suchandsuch town…would you want to do any of those?

    i would love to go to dinner on friday and then the hockey game on saturday 🙂

    him: ok see if your friends amy and steve want to go and sally and john

    ME: i would love that…that would be so much fun!

    (those are the friends of mine that he has met and we have had dinner with)

    ok….after writing this i’m just going to stop thinking about the dance and lean back and follow my feelings and instincts if it feels good to do something like cook dinner i’m going to…like the other night 🙂

  138.  #138Rusty on April 14, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    @#122: Mel

    I like your idea of just saying… “I need a sounding board…” or do you think saying “I have X problem and I need some comfort.” would work?

    I think that sounds like a great idea. Maybe even just ask him, “Can I tell you about the really bad day I had, and then just have you hold me for a while? That’s what I need right now, for somebody to listen to me and then hold me.”

    That may trigger the right emotions in him if it makes him feel like he is being helpful.

    Maybe if you feel you two can be honest with each other, talk with him about this. Tell him that sometimes you need advice, and other times, you just need to vent and the have somebody make you feel better by holding you.

    If you try that first one, and he does that for you, reward him for doing it. Only you know how to reward him but it can be anything from giving him a massage (he should be doing this for you too.) to taking him out to get ice cream. Or if he has a favorite sports team, get tickets to a game for you and him, or if that’s too expensive, buy him a jersey, or something. Just do something really nice for him.

    If he asks why you are doing this, be honest. Tell him how much it meant to you for him to just listen to you and hold you without lecturing you or trying to fix your problem.

    This will help him associate the whole thing with something positive. And at the same time it reinforces in his mind that he IS fixing the problem by just listening because the bigger problem is that you are in need of comforting.

    I’ll say this also. Women tend to need lot’s of little thoughtful gifts…even a vase full of wild flowers the gu picked can do the trick. Men tend not to value that stuff as much…I mean we like little things like a cup of coffee sitting on the bathroom counter waiting for us when we get out of the shower, but hate to say it, we can be real jerks and forget to compliment you for doing it, or simply not put as much value on it as a woman would. We tend to put more value on something big…shiny…etc… It’s one of our built in faults it seems. probably something left over from evolution where the woman valued picking little berries while the man valued bringing home a huge hunk of meat. Probably why we forget to do those little things too.

    Here’s a little trick you can try. Have a pot that you both put little wishes in. You can also throw in big ones to if you can afford them. Anyway, you can work this any way you want to. Make it a contest, and the lower draws from the pot. Or even better, make it just something you do. But here’s how you do it. You put the wishes in for what you want. he gets to put his wishes in that he wants. If they are sexual in nature, it is not allowed for anyone to put something in that their partner does not know about and agree to. In other words they have to have our OK before it goes in the pot.

    Each person has their one pot. Now, you both draw 3 things from the other person’s pot. So if he draws 3 from your pot, he now has three of your wishes. And he gets to choose which of the three he does. No wish can last longer than a week. Or you can set lower time limits on things like sexual things for instance. He may love the idea of a week’s worth of BJ’s in the morning but that’s hardly fair if yours is to be served breakfast in bed every morning.

    So he has 3 of our wishes and he chooses which one he will do. He should just keep it a secret too unless it requires that you know. Like, hey, have your bags packed Thursday night because I am taking you to that B&B right after you get off work.

    But if it is simple, like have a cup of coffee for me when I get out of the shower.

    Have fun with setting up the parameters for yourself. Maybe have it set that he has to pick 3 little things and one big one and he can choose which he does. All three little one or the one big one.

    So maybe he draws that he has to take you to a B&B for the weekend, or he can choose the three little ones which is to give you a massage one night, watch a movie of your choice one night, and serve you breakfast in bed one morning.

    Don’t worry about having it perfect since you can rework the rules for yourselves if something conflicts, etc..

    But it will keep things fresh and fun.

  139.  #139Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 2:16 pm typos today are terrible! i meant and HE was about to text

  140.  #140Rusty on April 14, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    @#136: Femininewoman

    “I really like your voice here.”

    Thank you very much. It’s nice to be appreciated. I have enjoyed talking with you.

  141.  #141Prairie Girl on April 14, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    #6 Jilly
    Oh I’ve missed you too!

    Well… funny you should mention lunch date.. it got canceled/postponed (til tomorrow possibly) due to STOLEN CATTLE… true story… I couldn’t make this chit up…. in case anyone doubted I really was a country bumpkin this should be proof positive…lmao…

    I had a mini meltdown… not because of him per se, but because I’ve been wrestling with the “reality” of “I have no mate/lover/sig other”… and I have peace admitting it but I do NOT love it…and I want different but am afraid the wanting keeps it away…

    I’m taking a personal offense at the Universe/God these days… Oh and it’s that time of the month so no surprise…

    I really felt excited about this guy.. so felt like God or the Universe had just dangled a carrot in front of me then took it back… I like it when they cancel or don’t show up WAY before I think they’re really coming…

    I texted a FM after the cancellation phone call saying that I felt disappointed and was surprised, but shouldn’t be I’d felt more excited about meeting him than most of the other guys I met…

    He called back an hour or so later after the sheriff left and was following tracks… he kinda had an idea who might have done it.. was focused on what he was doing but informed me that he WOULD be coming to see me.. that while he realized that I didn’t know that for a fact he did…

    We’ll see if I like him when I actually meet him… He’s very attractive, but what I like is that he thinks the sexiest thing about me is the way I think…and that I get/love his lifestyle… he’s had a lot of city girl posers…lol…

    Angels on your body

  142.  #142Prairie Girl on April 14, 2011 at 2:25 pm

    I posted this on the last thread before I noticed we had a new one…

    #727 on the last thread Kaitlyn says
    If I wouldn’t have been so critical out of insecurity, he would’ve put more effort into picking up my gift, right?
    NO! The exact opposite and why (in my not so perfect opinion) you are still wrestling with this…

    It’s the OPPOSITE… If HE would have been the right guy (shown by having the appropriateness/kindness/respect for you -your time-your effort) HE would have been his persuasive self (that he is in the areas important to him) and made sure to get the gift…

    YOU were right about him.. Right to nag.. Right to take the job!!!!! You just didn’t have the right tools (nagging not being the one that raised YOUR energy)… HE was slacking and you felt it!!! So you REACTED to HIS slacking….

    HE WAS/IS NOT THE PERFECT ONE! He wouldn’t be acting the way he is now OR then if he was….

    You deserve better… true story.
    Angels on your body

  143.  #143Rusty on April 14, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    134: Femininewoman

    “I have to say that in real life and in movies I keep hearing about this concept of “being on the man’s side”. Seems like a big issue for you guys.”

    I can honestly say that if you want your man to feel connected to you, this is as important as water in a desert.

    Even if he is wrong, stand by him, at least in public, and the talk to him later, and maybe even say, “I thought you were mistaken, but I am not going to take anyone’s side against you. I will always have your back.” But be as non-confrontational as possible about it. Maybe even save that for when he comes to you and says he realizes he was wrong. Then say that.

    Or if he doesn’t say anything, maybe find the info that shows he was wrong, and find a way of slipping it into the conversation. Heck make a fake email account and send it to him in an email with a header that will grab his attention.

    Imagine a woman who is your nemesis. Maybe some woman who is always backstabbing you at work. So you are at a Christmas party and you are in conversation with people and you say something that your husband knows to be incorrect. And that other woman calls you out on it. If the nemesis asks your husband’s opinion, he should just say, “I don’t want to get in the middle of this, but I stand by my wife.”

  144.  #144Rusty on April 14, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    @#131: Femininewoman

    “Rusty your comments about dealing with fear in a healthy way is such a CCarter type of advise to women. I totally agree but doing and saying are worlds away, especially when we are not consciously aware of our fears.”

    That’s the hard part isn’t it. Recognizing our own faults and fears. So much easier to deal with them if we are aware of them.

  145.  #145Kyla on April 14, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    Rusty I can feel the frustration in your posts about feeling your previous wife was not on your side. I realise that being trusted is a huge thing for men. That must have felt awful.

    It never fails to amaze me how grateful my partner is when I don’t point out his mistakes or offer to help him (which is incredibly hard for me to do because it feels uncaring to wait to be asked!) 🙂 he always thanks me for trusting he could do it even if he made a few mistakes before he got there lol and he’s told me he feels safer asking for my advice or help when he actually does need it. I’ve heard that from lots of men that not being trusted hurts them deeply.

    “I can honestly say that if you want your man to feel connected to you, this is as important as water in a desert.”

    I like the way you phrased that!

  146.  #146Mel on April 14, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    Hey Rusty,
    Great idea about the wish jar! I don’t want him to think I’m demanding more from him though. I want him to know that it’s good for him too. I’ll have to think about how to suggest this to him. It’s a long story, but he feels I’ve been too needy lately, so I might want to hold off on this for a while. That’s a question for another time though! It would be interesting to hear your perspective.

    I recognize that door knocking is probably a great way of meeting people. Only at that moment I really just needed some comfort. Being so shy it just created MORE distress in the situation because he was so insistent that I do it. I probably would have been more open to the suggestion had I not already been upset. It still freaks me out though. I find it much easier to say hi to someone in a coffee shop or a class than to knock on someone’s door. Yikes!

  147.  #147Rusty on April 14, 2011 at 2:39 pm

    @#132: Femininewoman

    “Rusty I am not finished reading 130 yet but have to let you know that I have experienced the example of the knight thing. In the past I also remember sitting in front of 3 men in the office and trying to defend myself and was totally crushed. Next when it happened and I did nothing one of the guys jumped to my defense and I was shocked to see how it played out. All I had to do was sit quietly and the lions went at it.”

    We can be so predictable at times if you know what you are looking for. We not only have strong fighting instincts, we have even stronger protective instincts. A smart woman recognizes this and can use it to her advantage in a positive way in a relationship.

  148.  #148Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    KS – Hiya! Once I was hysterically crying and “needing” my ex…so he left work and drove across town and when he got here, he yelled at me – “okay you PROVED your point, you can make me do what you want!” and was all pissy. WTH? I was genuinely hysterical – and I am so not a cry-er. So yeah. And how’s letting go going?

    I have a GREAT quote on relaxation – “it’s not something that happens automatically when you drop into your chair, it’s something you train your mind/body to do, step by step.”

    FW – I was so surprised by the name change! Name changes are huge, like rites of passage…but now you’re back? What’s up with it if you feel like sharing?

  149.  #149Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    Meemee – well, ummm…yeah, he probably won’t say that about his wedding expenses huh? I strongly strongly advise you to GET THE MONEY – however lean forward you have to be – before the wedding. Sorry but be strong!

    Prairie Girl…cowboy tales for Prairie Girls….tooo cute!!


  150.  #150Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 2:44 pm

    85 LD/Jilly.This reminds me of my good friend.When she met her second husband(from BOTH cried on the first date because they just Knew.They had sex on the first date, got engaged a couple months later, waited for her son to graduate H.S. to get married (2 yrs)and are living very happily.She cried all the time the first couple months after they met bc it was just this huge sense of relief and peace that she had finally found someone who really truly loved her like she had never been loved befo

  151.  #151Prairie Girl on April 14, 2011 at 2:46 pm

    lol Jacqueline… funny huh? With “following the trail” of hoof prints and cow chit to boot…

  152.  #152Mel on April 14, 2011 at 2:48 pm


    So how does one inspire the “protective instincts” of their man?

  153.  #153Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    I feel anxious about SLV – I miss you, SLV and I’m afraid you won’t come back and it won’t be the same fun and fearless place without you. I am so sorry you were offended! And I hope you’re reading along anyways…and I hope the no money spending thing is going well, and the feeling better physically is progressing and my happy place won’t be nearly as happy without you.

    I want to think of something funny to say to break the ice – I want to say Evan says Asian men have the worst stats in the world for getting dates, but he pity’s the short guys the most. Some study he did…he also says that men like thin women in real life, as much as he wishes he could say it aint so…

    and well, heck, I’ve got a man, had a man, never have not had a man…and I’m not thin.

    Statistics are NOT about US, are they? Never.

    Although the short guy I was all like oh, I’d go out with him – and all the women were writing how they’d hate for a man to put his head on their shoulder, which my only 1″ taller boyfriend has done – ewwwwww – and I was being all no, he’s all that…

    then he opened his mouth to comment and it totally sounded like short man syndrome with a lot of sexual conquest position talking stuff and I was aha!! so that’s why you don’t have any dates – it’s your PERSONALITY…heeeee…

    c’mon – you’re the only one who totally gets my jokes, SLV!!

    I mean they are so subtle and all…rofl…

    just saying, don’t go!!!

    Once you told me that and it made a difference to me….

    I hope I can make a difference to you!


  154.  #154Angel Lady on April 14, 2011 at 2:51 pm

    Jilly- RE; 109 ME TOO!

    It felt so good. I have leaned back all week and he called today and asked almost immediately “what’s going on with us?” and opened up a dialogue.

    Long story short… I feel proud of myself for speaking how I feel. It wasn’t real pretty and he started to get defensive and attack a bit and I backed WAY up and told him it wasn’t feeling good to share my feelings and I was gonna get off the phone.. He calmed down and told me to wait.. not to hang up and that he wants to make me comfortable. We spoke a little more.. I shared more feeling messages… he seemed to get a bit frustrated and not know what to “do”… but at least i shared and he listened and I didn’t shut down. He had to go back to work and said he would call me later. I am not attached to the outcome right now which feels good.

    I feel proud of me. I feel scared too. I get so scared to share my vulnerability and it not be accepted or liked. But that’s not my problem. My problem is staying open and part of that is showing my soft side. That’s tough for me. Everyone has always seen me as “the strong one” my whole life. When I show “weakness”, I have not had a good reaction to it almost ever so I am gunshy.

    it feels good to just be honest about who I am and feel. scary but good. Whatever happens from this point forward in my life, I want it to be real. I am willing to risk to allow that.

    The support here is so lovely.

  155.  #155Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    Kaitlyn, If we can find a way to connect off-blog I have a pale lanky deviant guy friend for you to check out if you want. It would be long distance (east coast) but you never know…. <3

  156.  #156Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    Love it, Prairie Girl Boots are made for walkin!!


  157.  #157Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    Queenbee….kind of ditto what I said about SLV to you as well. I thought you were spoken to really harshly – “oh, no you don’t THINK…do you” ugh!!!

    That kind of rolled into the big spew….but I read it and felt bad and I hope you post soon so I and all of us! know you’re your usual spankin fine self!!!


  158.  #158Rusty on April 14, 2011 at 2:56 pm

    146: MelNo Gravatar says:

    “Hey Rusty,
    Great idea about the wish jar! I don’t want him to think I’m demanding more from him though. I want him to know that it’s good for him too. I’ll have to think about how to suggest this to him. It’s a long story, but he feels I’ve been too needy lately, so I might want to hold off on this for a while. That’s a question for another time though! It would be interesting to hear your perspective.”

    The idea here isn’t that it is about being needy. This is supposed to be fun, because he has a jar also. He puts the same number of wishes in the jar.

    Heck, if you guys want to, you can work on your wishes together so he isn’t asking for a new car and you are asking for breakfast in bed. Or somehow come to an agreement on what is acceptable as wishes. Or like I said, if one is a big wish make an agreement that the other person gets three small wishes granted.

    I recognize that door knocking is probably a great way of meeting people. Only at that moment I really just needed some comfort. Being so shy it just created MORE distress in the situation because he was so insistent that I do it. I probably would have been more open to the suggestion had I not already been upset. It still freaks me out though. I find it much easier to say hi to someone in a coffee shop or a class than to knock on someone’s door. Yikes!”

    I feel your pain. I am very outgoing but knocking on people’s doors to make friends seems really scary in a way. So I totally get you on that one. If you want to know how I would handle it, it is like this. Read on if you want the advice, otherwise skip. 😉

    Going to somebody’s door just to say hi feels awkward, but if I have a reason, that is totally different.

    So find an excuse. do not know your living arrangements so it is hard to know exactly what is appropriate. If you have a yard that is big enough, or a balcony that is big enough to put grill on, invite people over for a BBQ.

    I would make something nice up on the computer if you know how. MS Word works pretty well for this. And seriously, don’t be afraid to say that you are new to the area and would like to meet new people. But basically it is an invitation to a BBQ. Or a party, or whatever.

    Then you have a reason to knock on their door. Or don’t. Just put it in the mail box, or their door. I do think it is better to knock as this way you have a face meeting before the show up to the party.

    The next suggestion is to find a hobby. This will give you almost instant friend contacts if it is the right hobby.

    This one is my favorite. If there is a local community college there, take a class. Any class. Something that interests you. Find out where the students hang out to eat. Most of them do have a cafeteria area that is open. I don’t know your age range though so I will just say that if you are older, take an evening class because there will be more people in their 30s and up in those classes. Many of them have cooking classes also. I am thinking about taking one of those myself since I do most of the cooking and do like to cook.

    One is if you are religious at all, you can go to a church which would give you instant contacts for friends.

    If you like kids but don’t have any, got to the playground in your area and there will surely be some single moms that are probably as starving for adult companionship as you are. Just take a lunch and a book and sit down near them. Eventually one of them will likely approach. If they ask if you have kids, and you don’t, just say, “No, I just like to sit her because I love the sounds of kids when they are excited and laughing.”

    If none approach, but seem friendly, say hi, or say something nice about their kid. That always helps.

  159.  #159Angel Lady on April 14, 2011 at 2:56 pm

    Fem Women _ re 118. – I can TOTALLY relate to that. I had a specific experience at 5 years old at my great grandmothers funeral and I was crying. She was my favorite. My grandmother looked at me and said..”oh no Holly. Don’t you cry too”.

    I lamely made up that i wasn’t allowed to cry after that. That is where my hard exterior shell came from. I hid all the mush underneath until about 10 years ago.. I took some workshops and got in touch with the strength my emotions have.

    I actually feel like i lost that for awhile again and am just reconnecting with it through RoRi’s programs.

    I can totally understand and relate to your post. How are you doing with opening up in your life now to your emotions?

  160.  #160Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 2:58 pm

    Jonathon’s posting about a video for the “new conciousness of men”…Based on the “Manifesto for Conscious Men,” a collectively-written document from a number of men who feel that a new definition of masculinity can help redress the imbalances of patriarchy and welcome a new era of loving appreciation between men and women. A group of these men speak from the heart a..

    Video is at :

    I love the idea of a NEW day for men!!

  161.  #161tinque on April 14, 2011 at 3:03 pm

    LD – “Maybe my heart is just opening up and filling up for the first time so much that it is overflowing.” yep this is it exactly. this is awesome by the way.


  162.  #162Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    I am noticing that these two step-up guys, hotpilot and hotarmyguy, both begin with “hot.” So, yeah, who says we can’t have the hot we want???

  163.  #163Mel on April 14, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    Rusty Re:158

    Great suggestions!

    I just thought of something. I’m reflecting on why it sometimes feels bad to me when my husband offers a fix to my problem.

    If no comfort or sympathy for the hurt is offered beforehand, a “solution” feels almost like he is saying “It’s your own fault you feel this way and this is what you need to do to fix it.”

    I KNOW that’s not what he means. I’m just reflecting about my own reaction and I think that’s what happens. Interesting.

  164.  #164Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 3:08 pm

    Angel lady, My mother (who insisted I play I did it my way at her funeral) spent 5 days dying in ICU except for the final day…and she never would let me cry.

    I did a post on pity and the lame old phrase, stop that crying, or I’ll give you something to cry about.

    But what totally turned me into a non cryer? Was when the all 5 years at least older kids told me we were playing a game and to count to 3 and walk backwards into the street and a woman skidded to a stop maybe a foot from me and I got the sh*t beaten out of me….and my sister (12 years older and I guess just didn’t want to listen to it) says to me, “they only hit you to make you cry!”

    And that was the end of crying as I knew it, wow, she was evilly brilliant, huh?

    Or just doing what any teenager about to leave home who didn’t want to hear her kid sister scream would?

    I’ve never decided!

  165.  #165tinque on April 14, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    KS – Crying can make some men feel really, really uncomfortable. So they deal with their discomfort by ignoring you. OR he feels helpless, doesn’t know what to do.

    I can still get that sometimes with K though usually he will hold me, kiss away the tears, so sweet.


  166.  #166Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    SLV, I’m not sure what happened as I am behind in reading, but if you were offended by something here please know that I am struggling with that right now too – was ready to completely walk away from here last night and may yet do so. 🙁 I like you a lot and think the world of you and if I keep coming back you will be one of the reasons. <3 Lucy

  167.  #167Angel Lady on April 14, 2011 at 3:15 pm

    I feel so trusted when you all share your stories here. I am in awe of your openness.

    I feel sad that so many of us learned at such young ages that crying was unacceptable.

    I feel good to know that we are all teaching ourselves a different story.

    How cool is that? The power we have to change the stories we tell ourselves.

    Thank you for sharing with me. It really makes me feel more “normal” lol.. like I am not the only one who has dumb patterns.

  168.  #168Angel Lady on April 14, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    Lucy and SLV – Not sure what the story is behind the offended feelings with you beautiful ladies, but I have felt weird on this site a few times and it was helpful for me to realize that exactly what I was feeling that was triggered by posts on this site, are challenges I am having out in “life” as well.

    And I used it as a tool for myself. Because just like in life, it is WAY too easy to walk away for me than to sit with it and own the part that is mine and create value out of it for myself.

    I hope both you ladies will stick around if you can find a way it feels good for you. I find so much value in your participation here and would feel sad if that was missing.

  169.  #169Rusty on April 14, 2011 at 3:19 pm


    So how does one inspire the “protective instincts” of their man?”

    OK, I can only give some small examples because really there hundreds of thousands of examples and they could fill an encyclopedia. So let’s keep it simple.

    I think what you are getting at here, and correct me if I am wrong but, you are talking about how to have civil conflicts where he comes to you with a soft heart, right? Because that’s what we were talking about earlier.

    OK, so if you are feeling unappreciated. he forgot your anniversary, or he forgot that you were going out on Friday and forgot to make the reservations. Or he was supposed to take you dancing on Saturday but he accepted an invite to a basketball game. All of them work for this.

    OK, you could start off throwing plates at him. 🙂 Not likely to produce good results though unless your goal was to get him to call you crazy, and run from the house until you are asleep.

    Or you could start telling him things like, “You don’t appreciate me, you don’t love me, you care about your friends like I do. Make sure you are screaming and red in the face. Maybe froth at the mouth a little too. 😉

    Nah, OK, that isn’t going to work either. I would sit on the couch and leave room for him, then tell him, “I don’t feel appreciated.” If he tries to respond, tell him you just need him to listen. Pour your heart out, even if it makes you cry. Crying can be good if he can handle it. But let him know how you feel. Don’t tell him what he is doing wrong…tell him how your feel. More than likely, it will come as a shock to him. He likely thought everything is fine. If your back is turned to him a little, he may start to rub your back. That’s the “chivalrous knight” coming out. Any tender actions will signal that happening.

    Your goal should always be to let him know how you feel, not tell him what he is doing wrong. The first one allows him to be the chivalrous knight and the second makes him defend himself.

    If he treats the first as if you are attacking him, correct him by saying, “I am not telling you what you are doing wrong, I am telling you how I feel.” If he tells you that you are wrong to feel that way, that is wrong. He has no right to tell you how you feel. He can’t tell you how you feel. Let him know that.

    In my personal opinion, a guy will always want to be that chivalrous knight, even if he doesn’t know how. If that is the case, you may need couples therapy. Find one where they teach you how to use a talking object and repeat back what the other person is saying. They will teach him those little lessons like that he can’t tell you how you feel. And they will teach you both how to really listen to each other.

    Basically, soft, vulnerable and hurting will trigger the right response from him. Combative, angry, shouting, cold shoulders, etc.. trigger his defense mechanisms.

  170.  #170Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    xoxo to all!!


  171.  #171Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    I gave up “looking” for a man a few months ago and shut down my profiles… and now a man of interest has magically appeared. 🙂 I am not “excited” about him the way I was with WH (and I’m not ready to give him a name with “hot” in it ;)) but I feel a scary feeling that tells me there may be something real and deep here potentially. I am trying to not get ahead of myself by overthinking it – trying to just open my heart to receive whatever he wants to give me for as long as he wants to give it.

  172.  #172Rusty on April 14, 2011 at 3:29 pm

    @3165: tinque

    “KS – Crying can make some men feel really, really uncomfortable. So they deal with their discomfort by ignoring you. OR he feels helpless, doesn’t know what to do.

    I can still get that sometimes with K though usually he will hold me, kiss away the tears, so sweet.”

    Make sure he knows that what he did is really appreciated, and let him know how much it helps, and it will reinforce in him that this is the proper course of action.

    I watched a young friend a while back try to comfort his wife when he really made her mad. He went to hug her because she broke down crying. She was still mad so she lashed out at him. I had to tell him to keep doing that, that it was the right thing to do. I could see that he was hurt by her lashing out at him like that. Had I not said anything to him, he may never have done that again. So he took my advice and went back in, and she lashed out again, buthe persisted and each time she lashed out less.

    I left during this but he came to me the next day and told me what happened and he thanked me because he said that they were talking good and working things out, but it probably wouldn’t have happened had I not said anything.

    So I would say to women, while you may want to, don’t lash out. Your man won’t always know what to do and may not have someone to tell him to keep trying to comfort. He wants to, believe me, but the normal reaction if you lash out is to protect himself. understand that he does care if he will make that first move to comfort. It is not a sign of surrender to accept that comfort. The truth is that at that point, you are both at a great point to talk things out if you can do so in “I” messages. Explain the hurt to him. Don’t say “You hurt me” just say, “It hurt me that I am not appreciated,” or whatever it is that makes you hurt…

  173.  #173Lilybelle on April 14, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    62: LD

    I suspect that this may be what is happening with me, now that I have read it what you said.

    I have been very much a loner, while my vibe has been so low and now find myself working through more things related to boundaries. I am finding that it is very difficult for people to accept the “new” me with all my boundaries and feelings and am feeling unheard and disrespected. BUT I am also feeling proud for sticking to my guns. I left a conversation today, when a very snide remark was made by saying that I don’t feel good being spoken to in that manner and I am leaving now. I did need to clarify, again, what that boundary was (I will not accept this type of talk toward me any longer) and of course, got railed on again but I stayed strong and left the conversation completely.

    It is the first time in my life, that I have EVER stood up for myself, and stuck to it. So, is it boundaries that I am working on? Sure seems that way to me.

    I conducted myself, my tone, my communication in very respectful ways, and when I wasn’t receiving the same, I said no. YAY me, damn it!

    As I am doing this, I am feeling better and better, stronger, more sure of myself and my ability to speak my truth, even if the other person doesn’t like it but am also remembering to be soft and respectful.

    Ramble much, Lil? Sheesh.

  174.  #174sweetmandm on April 14, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    @ 172- Rusty


    & Thank you! 🙂

  175.  #175Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    Angel Lady, thank you. For me, it has always been way too Hard to walk away. 🙂 I am learning that sometimes that is the best option for all concerned. Thank you for your compassion and sharing; I so appreciate it. <3 Lucy

  176.  #176Lilybelle on April 14, 2011 at 3:43 pm


    My son can move me to tears in less than an instant. One time, we were cooking together in the kitchen, well I was cooking, he was in there helping, and we were having a lot of silly fun. He stopped what he was doing and said, “Mom, you make my heart happy.”

    Still makes me cry happy tears.


  177.  #177Rusty on April 14, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    @#163: Mel

    “I just thought of something. I’m reflecting on why it sometimes feels bad to me when my husband offers a fix to my problem.

    If no comfort or sympathy for the hurt is offered beforehand, a “solution” feels almost like he is saying “It’s your own fault you feel this way and this is what you need to do to fix it.”

    I KNOW that’s not what he means. I’m just reflecting about my own reaction and I think that’s what happens. Interesting.”

    I understand why you would feel that way, but would you believe that he likely feels a subconscious responsibility himself? Like if you are hurting, or not happy, it is his fault, because he is after all supposed to be your knight in shining armor and what kind of knight in shining armor is he if you aren’t happy, or are hurting. So he is trying to be your champion. Not your judge and jury.

    The only thing I can say that I know, and ever man I know has confirmed that their intentions are 100% honorable when trying to help you solve your problem.

    I can say though that it does get frustrating to hear every single day that you feel bad that so and so at work keeps stabbing you in the back. Even the most patient man is going to get tired of hearing it. You understand where I am coming from?

    My wife had a friend who had man problems…and also had friend problems. I mean all this woman ever did was bleed on you. Every time she was around all she wanted to do was whine about the bum who cheated on her and left, or the bum who just used her for sex and now doesn’t call, or her money woes, or her cat died, or her mom is mad at her…

    I couldn’t take it anymore and finally told her. I had a right to. She was ruining my home life.

    So I told her that it is one thing to occasionally talk about your problems but that after awhile people won’t want you around. People like to party. They want to have fun. If all you do is whine about your problems, it gets old.

    Now I wouldn’t say that about this board. That is the point, to come here and talk about these kinds of things.

    But I think most people understand that you don’t go over to somebody else’s house every single day and make the conversation about your problems the entire time every single time. There’s no place for them to go when they need a break from it. 😉

    So anyway, even if your man agrees to just hear you out and then hold you, at some point it is fair for him to step in and say, “OK, this has gone one long enough, I think you need to confront the woman. Maybe take it to your boss.” You can’t expect him to comfort you every day of the week for a month and not say anything.

  178.  #178Elizabeth on April 14, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    SLV, Jacqueline,

    Can someone direct me pretty please, to which thread and the post # about internet marketing/intellectual property that SLV wrote? It is on another thread, and in my turmoil over whether or not to “walk”, I neglected to save or copy it, and I very much want to.

    Thank you kindly!


  179.  #179Rusty on April 14, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    “My son can move me to tears in less than an instant. One time, we were cooking together in the kitchen, well I was cooking, he was in there helping, and we were having a lot of silly fun. He stopped what he was doing and said, “Mom, you make my heart happy.”

    Still makes me cry happy tears. ”

    That’s sweet. 😀

    I have one but it’s a bit different. I always called my daughter “punkin” She was about two years old and she kept undoing the harness on her child seat in the car. We were on a highway and my wife kept redoing it and scolding her, but she kept doin git and got into a bit of a battle with the wife. So for the first time ever, I looked back at her and in a bit of a gruff voice told her to stop.

    It was like I killed her puppy or something. She looked at me shocked, and in a sad voice said, “I not punkin?”

    I was like, “Aaaaaah sheeeeesh! Fight fair would ya?”

  180.  #180Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    Lucy…yay for man of interest 🙂 a man with “hot” attached will be coming soon 😉

    Angel Lady…i loved your post @153…that’s how i feel too…i just want to be the real me…with all my feelings/thoughts…good and bad

    and i had no idea anyone was offended 🙁 i was just asking about SLV earlier cause i noticed she wasn’t posting and she usually does in the morning after her coffee run..or right around that time

  181.  #181Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    lilybelle…i love that…i would cry too..what a sweet boy you have 🙂

  182.  #182Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    Rusty…that’s super cute too…i bet that broke your heart…like what? no i didn’t mean it!

  183.  #183Elizabeth on April 14, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    175. Lucy, yes, walking away can be very hard. it’s always been bittersweet. But, I am grateful for any and all emotions, and love to feel them deeply. For me, the key is to stay centered and balanced through it all, whenever I can. (Even when it is almost impossible to stay centered and balanced. 😉 Life is always going to be filled with ups and downs, that will never change. What I can change is how I respond to these ups and downs and do my best to stay focused and in the present. I can only be responsible for my own feelings, not anyone else’s.
    It sounds like you are coping well with your and your daughter’s challenges….keeping you in my thoughts….


  184.  #184Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    Lilybelle..173…i loved it!! that sounds sound really good…that was a HUGE step…not a baby step…i’m giving you a “good game hiney smack!” 🙂

  185.  #185Ella on April 14, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    Rusty @ 111

    “If you are to ever experience true love, you are going to have to learn to let go of control and allow yourself to be honest, which of course leaves you vulnerable. But it is a risk you have to take.”

    I love this. This is exactly what we are trying to do here! 🙂

  186.  #186Elizabeth on April 14, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    179. Rusty


    love it! what a cutie punkin sounds like

    see?, we instinctually, naturally and organically know how to use our feminine wiles early on ! If we’re lucky, we might avoid losing touch with that innate knowledge, although it’s not our fault if we do…. and then re-learn it again!


  187.  #187Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    I am very much like a typical guy when it comes to listening to my daughter’s problems, so I totally get how hard it is for men to just listen, to not give advice, and Especially to feel that horrible helpless feeling! I have to exert heroic effort to Just Listen – just like Rusty described. Sometimes I actually have to white knuckle it, gripping the chair, so my “doing” energy has someplace to go! It takes so much concentration. And I still often “fail” and she has to remind me,”Ijustwantyoutolisten!!”

  188.  #188Laughing Goddess on April 14, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    FemininePower: I love you and appreciate you. I don’t want you to feel rejected here. I completely support you in being you and doing exactly what you want here.

    I know your intentions are good when you post articles and that you love learning and sharing what you learn.

    If I am not in the mood to read them, I feel perfectly fine with scrolling past them.

  189.  #189Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    Jacqueline…thats a sad story about your childhood i am so sorry that happened to you 🙁 xoxo back at you

  190.  #190Ella on April 14, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    Hmmm Rusty are you the same person who was writing on the blog yesterday?

    Your vibe feels very different to me today… kinda calmer and wiser.

    Feels good. 🙂

  191.  #191Ella on April 14, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    Sirens I am feeling very tired and need to go to bed and get some sleep.

    Am teaching a fitness class first thing in the am.

    Looking forward to a blog catch up session with a glass of wine, hopefully tomorrow evening.

    I can’t believe it is Friday already!


  192.  #192Lily T. on April 14, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    Hi Lucy. Just want to say I hope you don’t leave! I’ve very much enjoyed your thoughtful posts. You helped me understand cd’ing in a way I hadn’t before. Just think what else you might help me understand-:)

  193.  #193Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    The main issue is how awful it feels to feel helpless. And the desire to “fix” and “do” is motivated in large part (unconsciously) by wanting desperately to avoid that helpless feeling. So I have to allow myself to FEEL it, painful as it is, in order to give her what she needs – simply my presence and compassion.

  194.  #194islandgirl on April 14, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    Femininewoman – 134 -“I also like the analogy of the warrior goddess by your side and have seen something similar from another coach. I have to say that in real life and in movies I keep hearing about this concept of “being on the man’s side”. Seems like a big issue for you guys.”

    I can’t remember where, but I read that there is an evolutionary reason for this. When we were all in caves, Men went out to hunt together. The ones that were ‘against’ you were facing you, but the ones that would help you were along side you – on your side. They also said that it was helpful to sit beside a man when talking to him – not facing him (like over a table). It made total sense to me. 🙂

    When I have used this with my sweetie, it seemed to be more effective. What do you think FW? Rusty? Has anyone had this experience?

  195.  #195Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    PG…keep us posted on this guy 🙂 roperman? or stolencowboy?….oooohh..stolencowboy sounds mysterious lol k i’m cracking myself up today…anywho cowboys are hot!

  196.  #196Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    have goodnight ella! hope you have fun teaching your class! 🙂

  197.  #197Rusty on April 14, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    Yeah, she’s a cutie and a daddy’s girl. And my wife came to me one day and told me to be very careful what I say to her because she said every time the go somewhere together, it’s all “My daddy said this and my daddy said that.”

    Fun to play with her though to like when she was 3, and my wife would always point out animals she saw as we drove.

    So we are driving through West Virginia and I see some cows on a hill, and I said, “Hey Punkin…look…hill cows?” And then looked in the rear view mirror to see her looking at the cows and knitting up her brow. Then she says, “Hill Cows?” I said, “Yeah, they have legs shorter on one side so they don’t roll down the hill.” Looked in the rear view mirror and she has her eyes rolled up and she groans, “mommy…daddy is being silly!” 😛

    Had to learn real quick not to do double entendres around her to at that age because she would crack up laughing and me and my wife would look at her and say, “What are you laughing about?” She would look up all mischievously and say, “You know.”

  198.  #198Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    193 was a continuation of 187.

  199.  #199Elizabeth on April 14, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    Well, I met a new man today, and because of practicing and being mindful and aware, I kept myself completely open and accepting of what this man might want to share. on the alert for any judgments I might be making, which I was, like, he seemed a little nervous, but not insecure. He was nice-looking and I might be physically attracted to him. I noted my thoughts, and did not allow them to intrude on each new moment. I felt comfortable with him and engaged. He does not seem like a bad boy in the least, so I was careful to notice if I felt bored. I didn’t. He was very natural and didn’t try too hard to be funny or anything else.
    It was interesting to see that at first he didn’t know what the heck to do, because I just stood there, open and receptive and engaged. I had a very nice time, and he said he would be calling me again, but you never know. I’m glad I did this. Haven’t heard from jung guy. Not pining. Not feeling sad. I did the right thing. Just sitting in acceptance of it all. You never know anything.

    thanks for listening


  200.  #200Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    k hotpilot’s on his way over…he’s going to stay the night and then go with me to my workout class in the morning lol he wants to see what i do that i love so much and i want him too 🙂

    but my mornings are my time so this will be a little difficult…but..sorry if this is TMI but how am i supposed to go poo if he is here???

    in the past i’ve made a boyfriend go on a walk lol i have issues with pooing and men staying over

    i have to go poo before i workout…ugggg…sorry again for the TMI!!

    any suggestions??? anyone else have this problem???

  201.  #201Rusty on April 14, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    “Hmmm Rusty are you the same person who was writing on the blog yesterday?

    Your vibe feels very different to me today… kinda calmer and wiser.

    Feels good. 🙂 ”

    I guess nothing good comes when you feel your words are being twisted, ignored, propagandized, etc… probably better to just step away. But hard to do when you write something to some people and they say they like what you had to say, and then others keep confronting you and challenging you about it. I’ll leave it at that and say no more about it. 😉

    Thanks for the kind words.

  202.  #202Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    Elizabeth…you sound very centered and aware and zenlike 🙂

  203.  #203Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    Thanks for your support and encouragement ladies. It means a lot. About a year ago Rori gave me a bit of coaching around standing up for myself here on the blog. I have been trying to do what she taught me but I feel so weary of it. I’m good with working on the healing of triggers part of it, but struggle with what she calls “standing up for myself.” 🙁

  204.  #204Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    awww…Lucy i love that you’re hear on the blog too…i hope you stay

  205.  #205Angel Lady on April 14, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    Rusty – RE: 169 – Thank you for your persepctive and opinion. Very valuable for me.

    I especially like your last paragraph. 🙂

  206.  #206Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    i meant “here” lol…seriously my typos and writing today are out of control lol

  207.  #207Elizabeth on April 14, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    202 Thanks, Jilly,
    I really, really, really don’t want to keep making the same mistakes. I don’t want to make things harder for myself or the man involved. Like many of us here, I am such an empath, and that is one key reason we have boundary challenges, and get ourselves into trouble.

    I miss him, though. I think we should stay friends, but it will take time. I dunno. We’ll see.

    SO excited for you and hotpilot!!

    I don’t know what to tell you about the TMI…what do you have to lose by just being honest and do what makes you most comfortable ?

    I mean, he has the same bodily function, no?!

    One thing I never want to do even if I’m extremely close with the man is be in the BR when either of us are doing our thing….talk about staying “mysterious”…LOL

    Have fun!! I know you will and bring us back a full report!


  208.  #208Elizabeth on April 14, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    I’m going to pot some new plants I bought today! YAY!

    Lercomari’s description of that amazing meal she prepared inspired me to do something I love today!

    One of my projects on my project bucket list is to create a family recipe book. Yummy pie!

    So before it gets too dark, I’m off!

    Lucy, do whatever feels right for you to do at this time.


  209.  #209Lilybelle on April 14, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    I am loving Rusty’s voice here. Soaking today’s stuff up like a big old sponge.

    Thank you, Rusty.


  210.  #210Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    thanks Elizabeth! ya i’ll just be honest and try and make it a’s always been an issue for me…and the men/boyfriends all think i’m funny but i have a routine every morning lol

    you sound so matter of fact about it…maybe i’ll try that! 🙂

  211.  #211tinque on April 14, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    Jilly – “i have to go poo before i workout…ugggg…sorry again for the TMI!! ”

    OMG you so crack me up. Still loving my lashes.


  212.  #212Lilybelle on April 14, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    150: Lucy

    I love, love, love this!

    Jilly, I think you wrote one about the same thing.

    LOVE these stories.

    Renewed hope, ahhhh feels good.


  213.  #213Angel Lady on April 14, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    Lucy – I am getting from your last couple posts that we are likley quote opposites…(grin) Which is probly why I am so attracted to your input. I feel that I have so much to learn in areas you are strong.

    I happen to have more strength in the standing up for myself area which you are working on. I can really hear and understand that you feel tired and worn out.

    I find when I get worn out from standing up for me, it is because I am trying to convince someone else to agree with what I am standing for. THAT is totally exhausting.

    But, when I just simply state my truth and leave it at that and stand on it, then it doesn’t matter if anyone agrees or not. It’s my truth and boundary or whatever.

    I go to bed with me everynight and wake up with me everyday. As long as I am good with ME, then I am standing up for me in a good way. If I am worried or bothered at night or feel bad, then I relook at things.

    I know you have it in you to stand up for yourself and find it to be energizing. 🙂

  214.  #214Jilly on April 14, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    Tinque…i love when you are here! i’m so glad you love your lashes…i love mine…
    k just laughing about the TMI is making me feel better…i wish it wasn’t such an issue for me

  215.  #215Elizabeth on April 14, 2011 at 4:58 pm

    Happy Birthday wishes, tinque-y-poo !!

    I want those lashes too!!

    Jilly cracks me up too

    And Happy Birthday to the Divine Ms. M, too


  216.  #216Rusty on April 14, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    Well I have to go for the night. Good luck to you ladies in your relationships and man hunts. 😉

    BTW, I hope nobody told you Sirens that us men taste like chicken…because we don’t…ya know. 😛

  217.  #217tinque on April 14, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    Lucy – Muah…


  218.  #218Lilybelle on April 14, 2011 at 5:08 pm


    Sweet punkin..


  219.  #219Angel Lady on April 14, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    I feel crampy. ouch. lol

    I feel nervous for my sons first counseling appointment today. I feel excited to get him some help. 🙂 yay!

    I feel good about dinner with family later.

    I feel proud of my job hunting efforts today.

    I feel relaxed after feeling all my emotions yesterday and this morning.

    It has been a well rounded day. I feel good about that. No obsessive focus on any one area… just hit all areas that need attention.

  220.  #220tinque on April 14, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    Hey Elizabeth – S’not me who is talking about poopoo lol.

    Get you some lashes. They are beyond fun and look amazing.

    Thank you Jilly. I feel teary eyed now speaking of tears.


  221.  #221Lilybelle on April 14, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    184: Jilly.

    I sure feel good to be heard. This was and has been a struggle, huge struggle for me my entire life. I have been a stuffer and a pleaser and when I felt I had disappointed someone, in whatever way, I would just “disappear.”

    Speaking up for myself and creating and keeping boundaries is such a big deal for me. And such vast improvement. I have never done it before. How could a woman live this long and not take care of herself emotionally this way?

    Thanks for the good game hiney smack. I laughed right out loud! 😉

  222.  #222Lilybelle on April 14, 2011 at 5:23 pm


    I hope you decide to stay, I am learning from you.


  223.  #223Lilybelle on April 14, 2011 at 5:24 pm


    I am thinking about you.


  224.  #224Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    Elizabeth (aka hot blonde chick in cool tshirt)

    reposting….591: Senior Lady Vibe says:
    On another thread Rori posted her Rori blog posting rules. In the past I have slipped a few times and posted some articles and excerpts longer than a couple of sentences. In the future I won’t do that and I’ll be mindful of what Rori has asked of us. Her rules, seem to me, very permissive and generous to the posters here.

    632: Rori Raye says:
    “Hi all – I was asked by J to clarify the posting rules about other stuff you see out there written by other coaches on other blogs…. ”

    “…Best option always – just talk about what you saw on someone else’s blog and then put a link to the post…”

    “…2nd option – lift a short paragraph or quote from the post you like, and then put in the link to the rest of it. That way you’ll never go outside someone else’s rules, and you’ll still get your ideas across…”

    Rori also gives us permission to reprint her own articles!

    “..(it’s okay if you want to reprint me verbatim – that’s a decision I made long ago…)) – ”

    Thank you, Rori.

  225.  #225Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    Jilly, thank you. I really wondered if my sister was acting normally, but there is so much dysfunction in my family I have no idea what normal is. lol….

    and usually I post and it’s like dead silence, so it was nice to be listened to! You are a sweetheart!

    I feel relieved Rusty’s gone (sorry Rusty) that was worse than the lava fest for me….

    Yes some people will agree and others will disagree and it’s ALWAYS been that way here.

    I like it that we’ve got to a place where we can post our truth, opinion, etc. and just let it be – I was bragging on it last nite and I got I bet it doesn’t last. I hope that’s not true.

    At some point it has to be patently obvious that there IS no making your point…I wrote a post that you’re just preaching to the choir.

    And I find I don’t like all the advice dolling…I don’t really come here fore advice. I come here to hear your stories and be with you all.

    And if I were looking for advice, I’d look to someone with credentials. Other than they are the opposite sex – like an expert witness; I want an expert or to listen to one if I’m going to have to endure “advice.”

    Ha! probably why I don’t read all the other stuff postings – sometimes I catch it and I’m like that doesn’t sound like Rori?…and then it’s not.

    I give Rori the Expert Advice Award, which is funny because she really gives very little advice. She simply has a ground of being-ness that I like.

    I do, however, appreciate someone’s opinions about what happened, what I might do to overcome, stuff like that. Feels totally different to me.

    I like the never ending story part about being here!

    And the topic post – so ummm, what was the answer to how to not let anxiety ruin your job and relationship? Feel it, know you’re not alone? I’m pretty sure it wasn’t hide it, although that can work I find. I can be absolutely paralyzingly shy!! and NO ONE not even my best friend believes it – until she saw it once after 29 years…

    ‘kay dahlings…keep the stories coming!


  226.  #226Daria on April 14, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    Daria is done with community service!!! YAY DARIA!!!!

    AND I had an awesome day coloring in – and drawing artistic scenes – into letters for signs.

    I feel so amazed an proud of myself! It looks really really good!

    I didn’t know i had this talent! i had an inkling… and now it’s confirmed!


  227.  #227Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    Daria that is PHENOMENAL!!! You did a great job!

    Fireworks exploding!!!

  228.  #228Daria on April 14, 2011 at 5:52 pm

    Thank you Jaqueline! That feels really good! hehe!!!

  229.  #229Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    You know I always thought you WERE an artist for some reason. I knew you’d be good at it. I really am happy for you and wow, an unexpected gift!

  230.  #230Laughing Goddess on April 14, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    Rusty re 169

    omg! That was so awesome to read! It’s basically what Rori and most of the coaches say to do and it feels so good to hear that it works from a real live man.

    Whooooeeee! Thanks

  231.  #231Laughing Goddess on April 14, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    Mercedes: I feel so happy that you had a great birthday! My sweetie’s birthday is tomorrow. I sure do love those Aries! 🙂

  232.  #232Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 6:24 pm

    Daria – a completion present. I think you’ll love this woman’s artwork, she’s from Brazil and passed away but her Shaman series and her Goddess series are breathtaking and fit right in with Medicinewomangodess theme. I’ve got two of her books – it just blows me away at how anyone could imagine such beautiful, powerful things and bring them to life! Enjoy!

  233.  #233Elizabeth on April 14, 2011 at 6:27 pm

    224 Jacq

    Thanks! That ‘s not the one though… I was looking for the one that SLV wrote.


  234.  #234Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    I don’t know I think it’s on the circular dating argument thread? but if you go to a page – like this one – and hit control f it will give you a search box, and type in SLV on each of the last few posts and you can click through the posts by hitting next…

    What does your shirt say??? BAD …..

  235.  #235Laughing Goddess on April 14, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    Lucy: re 171

    That is so awesome!!!

    I would feel sad if you left, although I totally support you in doing what is best for you.

    I say don’t worry about trying to defend yourself. If people don’t get you, screw it! You get you, that’s all that matters.

  236.  #236Elizabeth on April 14, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    234 OK, thanks J, I’ll try it that way 🙂

    The pic is Debbie Harry (Blondie) wearing an
    Andy Warhol BAD t-shirt

    i liked the pic!


  237.  #237Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 6:46 pm

    Elizabeth….lol…I thought that picture seemed familiar-ish…heee….so YOU, my dear!!

    Thanks for the grins

  238.  #238Queenbee on April 14, 2011 at 6:49 pm

    Hi Sirens,

    It feels great to be on Siren Island.

    @65 Rusty – Thanks for posting. I’m wondering how you did not know this about your former wife before marrying her?


  239.  #239Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    Angel Lady- Thank you again. The difficulty is in situations where the boundaries keep getting trampled on. Rori said to keep repeating myself. It’s a matter of respect rather than agreement. And not tolerating poor treatment. Similar perhaps to how Evan felt – and he left, at least temporarily. So, I feel unsure at this point.

  240.  #240Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 6:55 pm

    ah, Queenbee….I posted that I wanted to see your fabulous self here and was worried you’d gotten triggered. But poof here you are…magic! and glad to see you too!

  241.  #241Femininepower on April 14, 2011 at 6:56 pm

    I love we Aries too LG.

    Lillybelle thinking about you too. I for some reason experience your vibe as soft, safe and inviting. Had to say that.

  242.  #242Femininepower on April 14, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    RE 236 lol I thought that was you Elizabeth

  243.  #243Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    Lucy – hey, how are ya? Evan didn’t leave – he has his own business to attend to – he’s on facebook and his blog and you can talk to him on facebook on comments. You said that he didn’t stay to engage when we wanted him to, but I really think he just came to post his point of view and wouldn’t even have gotten drawn in except for he felt he needed to defend after….it’s different than walk away. He’s a coach with a business, not a poster hanging out. And, he sounds good…and I can’t wait for Rori’s “rebuttal” post – didn’t she say she was going to write one?

  244.  #244Daria on April 14, 2011 at 7:02 pm

    Jaqueline – thank you for the gift!

    her art reminds me of the art of another goddess

  245.  #245Elizabeth on April 14, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    I’m waiting for Rori’s post on sex.

    242 Femininepower, I wish!
    I was that blonde at one time, and I’m small like her, and a tiny bit of resemblance with some of the facial features, love her music, could use some of her $$


  246.  #246Femininepower on April 14, 2011 at 7:06 pm

    Jilly I have hearome guys suggest that it is only after that act that things become real for them. They don’t believe you know each other well enough until you feel comfortable doing that with them around. It can cause some to disappear as they suddenly realize that you are human. It is your place though so flush it while it is dropping to hopefully minimize the effect.

  247.  #247KS on April 14, 2011 at 7:10 pm

    Jilly, Tinque, & J,

    Thanks for the responses.

    Yeah, that did happen to me. Started crying after a big fight with a bf….and he totally ignored it.??? Always wondered about that.

    And yeah, husband is still here. Stepping up bigtime. But I just don’t feel a damn thing for him anymore. Go figure.????

    Jilly-Interesting question about the poo chick. Lol. Maybe go at the gym before you start your workout??? 😉

    J-Always love your posts

  248.  #248Femininepower on April 14, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    RE 143Thanks for sharing that. I will definitely use it.

  249.  #249Elizabeth on April 14, 2011 at 7:21 pm

    very timely, comforting, empowering article for me,
    right this very minute.

    I don’t attract the wrong men, I accept the wrong men.

    “Stop accepting unacceptable treatment, justifying it because you “love” them.”

  250.  #250Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 7:23 pm

    Jacqueline, I feel surprised that I felt kinda good reading 225. I have some similar feelings to yours about those things. This next thing is hard for me, and I’m crying a bit… I felt angry and frustrated last night with what you said I said/meant about Rori. I did not say or imply that she was “making nice” or being inauthentic and it felt awful to have those things attributed to me. I feel unsafe posting when this kind of thing happens and it happens a lot. I don’t want to be misrepresented. What do you

  251.  #251Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    think we can do? I don’t want to have conflict with you and I don’t want to feel bad. *crying and feeling scared and vulnerable* <3 Lucy

  252.  #252Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 7:32 pm

    I’m sorry Lucy! I didn’t say that, in the sense that you were wrong, but later I wondered if it would bother you. It honestly just popped out of me that Rori is never imo inauthentic. But I’m sure she is diplomatic and what you said has validity.

    I guess I’m still in shock when I think of how HE was attacked and told bascially pity the poor fool that married him and his EGO…and how many times have we done that to one another here, you know? And Mercedes said she was having FUN being sarcastic…I cringed. I felt bad. I felt misrepresented. And it seemed to trigger this huge round of arguing which was not, imo, coincidental.

    Just bad energy to me – but my comment wasn’t at all about you, I just said what I thought. With no thought of making you wrong at the time at all.

    We know about and have the walk away tool…Evan has no idea that we utilize all these different tools. And he ended his post specifically with “respectfully.”

    I felt horrible about that, and I know you didn’t mean any harm, you love men and liked Evan, you were sad to see him go.

    And Rori thanked you. When I didn’t even post because I couldn’t figure out how not to sound slanted or defensive or whatever…

    So I thank you too for Rori and am glad to get back on track in us misunderstanding each other.

    Smiles, hug and a sliver of excitement for new man!! for you!

  253.  #253T-Girl on April 14, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    75 LD – I’m just catching up on posts so not sure if it may be mentioned yet. But you said you have been crying after your dates with HotArmyGuy…Russell Feingold said in his interview with Rori that when he went out with his wife for the first time, he hugged her and she melted into him and then started crying. She was seeing someone else casually but they ended up getting married in less than 6 months.

  254.  #254Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    Daria, I like it! Even more interesting to me was her picks for tarot representations, the hanged man as Medusa? interesting! I love fantasy art! Nene Thomas, Jessica Galbraith….even Boris and Julie. And magical realism of Michael Parks.

    I hope you do something super special for yourself now….honoring your Goddess for your strength to get through!!



  255.  #255Daria on April 14, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    Jaqueline – i feel uncomfortable reading that you feel misrespresented by “us”.

    i do this and it becomes a control thing about how “my family” “my people” etc come across

    yes Evan might have been attacked – and… he’s going to be ok!

    it’s not my responsibility to apologize, monitor, etc, what antoher woman has said.

    when i feel ashamed about what another is doing, i know i am triggered in myself. i don’t want responsibility for what is NOT mine.

    i personally felt awfully attacked by Evan’s tone myself.

    and i still feel very distant and unfriendly towards him

    and … i also feel bored by it all

  256.  #256Daria on April 14, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    Thanks Jaqueline – so far i have stood up for myself to a man about how i like to be treated…

    and to one about how i like to be pleased sexually – Squidworth please!

    and now i’m uploading my art to my blog

    then i will nap

    and … i might feel inspired to do something else awesome… feeling curious!

  257.  #257Daria on April 14, 2011 at 7:44 pm

    ok it’s up! if anyone wants to see my artwork just click on my name, its the top post…

    i colored in teh writing for Earth Day Event

  258.  #258T-Girl on April 14, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    OMG, I am experiencing a “rubber band man” syndrome again. Someone I was dating before Christmas that just dropped off the face of the earth and got a really nasty text from me (pre-Rori) is now emailing me again…no way will I go there again because now he just feels “eewww” to me. But it amazes me about the whole rubber band man thing.

  259.  #259Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    That’s a good point Daria. I’ve been thinking on it a lot…and yeah, I think Evan got really triggered and defensive himself. And it’s not even a big topic anymore….just something I was trying to work out for myself. Putting myself in there – both sides – if I were to express digust at someone and amazement that they qualified for marriage…and if I were the smart mouthed cocky boy who gets a lot of agreement and suddenly feels attacked…what would I do, what would I think was right, how would I react? Same as with Kat and Rusty – when it became obvious that neither was going to concede a point…then what was the point? It’s the kind of thinking I’m here for – hopefully results in my growth…

    And, thanks for your point of view and for you being you, always! Somehow, for me, you return the blog to it’s rightful way of being. A place for us to see our reflection…smile!

  260.  #260Daria on April 14, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    Aww Jaqueline thank you… that feels really flattering and good hehe

  261.  #261Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 7:52 pm

    Very tribal, geometric kind of like fractals – wonderful blog!! Who’s that beautiful girl on the passport…lol…

    intricate and wow, you got to do that for community service? How very cool. A lot of great colors and shapes, Daria..yep, you’re an artist at heart.

    Hope everyone looks…

    and saying goodnite everybody.

  262.  #262Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 7:58 pm

    Jacqueline 243. I respect your opinion on that issue and my opinion is very different than yours.

  263.  #263Daria on April 14, 2011 at 8:09 pm

    hehe thanks Jaqueline… that girl is Daria at 16

    for the signs i have 2 nature scene signs, and two geometrics… the outlines were done i was supposed to color and be creative “but not TOO creative”



    i felt excited to see that it looked awesome to me

    i feel super inspired to paint!

  264.  #264Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 8:14 pm

    Jacqueline – thank you for apologizing; that means a lot. Crying again. I want so badly to… I don’t know, maybe you represent ppl like my sister who – we couldn’t make our relationship work – and maybe I don’t ever want that to happen with any other “sister.” And I appreciate the other things you said as well, especially the “sliver of excitement.” 🙂 Re: Evan – I really felt, as a group, disrespected by him – regardless of how he signed his post. I also felt personally disrespected by Rusty with his

  265.  #265Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 8:19 pm

    “Not true” statement and response to me. This is big for me bc I tolerated disrespect in my marriage and I need to be able to “stand up for myself” so that I don’t end up in another relationship where I am treated disrespectfully. I don’t want to argue about the men and what they did or didn’t do, but I felt awful being addressed the way I/we were addressed.

  266.  #266Queenbee on April 14, 2011 at 8:21 pm

    RE: 157 Jacqueline says: “Queenbee….kind of ditto what I said about SLV to you as well. I thought you were spoken to really harshly – “oh, no you don’t THINK…do you” ugh!!!

    That kind of rolled into the big spew….but I read it and felt bad and I hope you post soon so I and all of us! know you’re your usual spankin fine self!!!”

    Hi Jacqueline. Thanks for that. LOL! Was that Rusty who said it? I think it was. You totally missed the part where he called me ‘stupid’ oh so ‘indirectly’. LOL!

    No problem. These things are just the way they are. I can totally have a conversation with a guy who is being rude if I want to and I can also walk away. I never feel like it’s about me. I always feel great and centered.

    I feel it’s a great shame that a man would choose to communicate abrasively when there are so many better options. I don’t take it personally though and feel it is just part of the ‘scenery’. I feel it is not my problem to ‘fix’ it/ him and mum would say they were raised badly – LOL! 🙂

    What’s more important to me is the man I marry and the men I raise. I want peace, calm and beauty to be the landscape of my home and abrasive talk has no part in that.

    It feels really bold saying this but I feel that language is what makes us unique as human beings and I want kindness to be the law of my lips.

    I know in my heart that my no.1 desire for my life is to be with a man who speaks gently and kindly to me. I don’t want blame and criticism in my life. But Rusty and EMK are just sort of harsh and ‘inyerface’. I can be with that but I would certainly NEVER marry it. So it feels irrelevant to me in that sense.

    I can separate an abrasive tone from the actual message being conveyed. I can still feel love for a person in such a situation but deep down I don’t feel respect or admiration for a man like this. I value and even feel attracted to a man who is in control of his tongue. That feels good to me.

    Daria – that’s fantastic!! Yay for you!! 🙂

    I’ve just loved reading all the crying comments. I felt a little teary eyed, but I’m still waiting for them to drop…

    Just processing through recent happenings …. don’t feel like posting – will do when I feel ready.

    Also relevant to the comment about ‘Working on yourself can be a lonely place’.

    Boomer – hope you are good. I miss you on here! 🙁

    Goodnight Sirens!


  267.  #267Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    Daria, I feel excited that my phone was able to load your website so I could see your art! I feel happy looking at what you created. I also feel relieved reading that you felt similarly about the conversation with Evan – only bc it helps me feel “not alone” with my feelings and perception. I feel mostly able to move on, but a little scared about stuff maybe happening again.

  268.  #268Lercomari on April 14, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    Rori you have a way of meeting me where I am… And I was just telling my friend yesterday about how helpful meditation can be. The Universe has called a me a hypocrite. :p Right now I am panicking over why the heck Techie is not online. I usually talk to him on Yahoo, and I want to confirm our date tomorrow. But I log onto Yahoo and he’s not there. However I log onto Facebook and he updated his wall just 11 minutes ago! Okay yes he has problems with his internet that makes it cut in and out but it’s never off for more than five minutes and its past five minutes so where is he? Why no email? Why no FB message? Why no phone call? Why no smoke signal???
    I am sitting on my couch half laughing, half sobbing at how insecure I can be. Need to read this post again…

  269.  #269Daria on April 14, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    I [Think] it’s a great shame that a man would choose to communicate abrasively when there are so many better options. I don’t take it personally though and [think] it is just part of the ‘scenery’. I [think] it is not my problem to ‘fix’ it/ him and mum would say they were raised badly – LOL!

    I feel uncomfortable because these kind of judging thoughts push (other) men away. It’s so easy to blame when we feel angry and rightfully.

    Instead of dropping to the vulnerable… This feels awful.. I feel awful being talked to this way… I feel angry… Place

  270.  #270Daria on April 14, 2011 at 9:02 pm

    Thank you Lucy and queenbee.

  271.  #271Nikita on April 14, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    How do I …….start dating again 🙁

  272.  #272Daria on April 14, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    Queenbee I apologize for editing and judging your post. Oops hello mirror.

  273.  #273Daria on April 14, 2011 at 9:05 pm

    Nikita’s starting dating! I feel thrilled! Turn that frown upside down!

    Start by going out where there are men… Dressed in something you’d wear to see one of your favorite lovers.

  274.  #274Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    Queenbee, thank you for 266 – you put into words some things I could not (or was not brave enough to). I struggle with expressing boundaries – how I don’t want to be treated – without blaming. I don’t want to blame or judge a man but I also don’t want to “accept unacceptable treatment.” I admire your confidence around your boundaries for your intimate relationships. I feel insecure about this for myself and thus feel yucky feelings here with Evan and Rusty.

  275.  #275Nikita on April 14, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    I have a lover 🙁

    I want to diversify my portfolio-which is awkward when you live together 🙁

  276.  #276Queenbee on April 14, 2011 at 9:09 pm

    OMG! Daria – I love, love, love your art!! It’s got me teary eyed.

    Incidentally, I just got a new paints and brushes and I’m going to start painting again this weekend 🙂 I sort of stopped for many years and focused on my musical art – but I somehow realized that painting is a whole other connection between my soul and the Universe.

    Love to all!!


  277.  #277Nikita on April 14, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    I have been sort of cd’ing with my Cali buddy that I almost married but it’s been years since we dated-he moved back to area so we get tea every now and then but I’m not interested in him and it feels very platonic. But did make an effort 🙂

  278.  #278Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    LG, did I thank you for your comment to me? If not, thank you. 🙂 My brain is foggy. I got 20 min. sleep last night then had to take my d to follow-up appt in city… on way home had to pull over and sleep a bit. Her pulmonary function tests were improved more than expected so yay for that! – and Everyone, thanks again for prayers and love. She has to “torture” herself (her phrase) with IV’s til Sunday then will be done and hopefully have some good days. <3

  279.  #279Daria on April 14, 2011 at 9:16 pm

    Queenbee thank you so much!

    I feel overcome by guilt now… I feel afraid I’ve hurt your feelings . I’m so sorry for lecturing on your post.

    I want to help and I can do that by sharing instead :(. Or at least asking if u want my input.

  280.  #280Daria on April 14, 2011 at 9:18 pm

    Nikita – mm so what? I didn’t say anything about whether you have one… I’m saying… Dress up sexy. Thats what I do. Like I was going to see one of my favorite lovers.

    Then men ask for your number. Then they ask for your time. Then you show up.

  281.  #281Daria on April 14, 2011 at 9:18 pm

    You can do this!!!

  282.  #282Daria on April 14, 2011 at 9:20 pm

    Nikita – get thee out to the bars, clubs, sportsbars, men friend gatherings, and online

  283.  #283Daria on April 14, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    Queenbee – my art was only the earth day post…

    I’m feeling insecure

  284.  #284Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    Daria, I wrote 274 before reading your 269 – and what you wrote about is exactly my struggle. What happens when we say it feels awful and I don’t want to be talked to that way – and then the guy says “I’m not treating you badly, I’m just direct no-nonsense practical ENTJ (or whatever) etc etc etc”? Then I feel even worse, dismissed, invalidated etc. I don’t know how to stand up for myself, even after all this time since talking to Rori about it. 🙁

  285.  #285Angel Lady on April 14, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    How come when I man had big emotions and anger to get through, we are supposed to stand there and “hold the space” for it and listen.

    Yet, when I have big emotions and express them in feeling messages without even blaming, and just owning how I FEEL, it is seen as “fragile, tempermental, and drama or heavy”.

    I am confused by the double standard. It feels crappy. I don’t feel free to express my real feelings and be accepted and honored for it, yet I feel obligated and like I am supposed to keep allowing HIM to have his and let it out so that we can be close.

    it feels one sided.


    I don’t like it.

  286.  #286Queenbee on April 14, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    RE: 269, 272 – Hey Daria, no problem, feel free.

    I’m thinking about what you said, though I guess I do ‘feel’ it. When I used to ‘think’ about those things that’s when I made it about me and went away feeling bad. And also thought about it more and analyzed more and more… what was wrong with me.

    I guess the ‘feeling’ comes when I’m actively engaged and involved in listening to the man, I do exert a certain amount of self-control to just be and still be with him and be okay. Not making it about me.

    In that moment there is a subtle feeling of all those things. There is a certain amount of sadness I feel in those types of conversations – but not for me, for him – perhaps that’s where the judgement comes in coz he’s fine doing his thing?

    I still feel sad and all those things… I just don’t make it about me and can still hold the space with a man.

    Perhaps not vulnerable and more of strategy? I don’t know…

    One day I’ll be vulnerable 🙂

    Goodnight Sirens! Now for real….

  287.  #287Angel Lady on April 14, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    I feel fragile. I guess that’s why. And you know what? I am ok with feeling fragile right now. I am strengthening day by day and that’s ok.

    I am ok with not being the perfect pillar of womanly strength just yet. I honor my experience up till now and that I need a bit more time to heal.

    I am ok with just being authentic for now. And not living up to everyones expectations of me.

    I intend to grow stronger on the inside and softer on the outside.

    I intend to feel good.

    I intend to feel good.

    I love and honor and approve of myself.

    I don’t need this to come from outside of me.

  288.  #288Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    Angel Lady – that is how I feel when interacting with Evan and Rusty – I feel afraid that my feelings will be judged as fragile, drama, immature, etc. – that I will be told to “deal with it” – bc they “are not treating me badly.” I feel afraid that they will say things like “no wonder you don’t have a husband” or “you are the kind of emotional woman men can’t stand” etc. I don’t want to be judged and criticized and shamed. I feel scared now about what Rusty will say when he sees this. I don’t want to be

  289.  #289Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    explained to, “taught,” patronized etc by the person who I am feeling bad with. I don’t want to be treated as if I am less intelligent, wise, rational, etc.

  290.  #290Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    Help! Rori? Daria? LG? Anyone?

  291.  #291Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 9:48 pm

    Hi Nikita. Good to have you here. 🙂

  292.  #292Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 9:48 pm

    wow! so I thought about this as I showered and I came back and we’re kind of all on the same track.

    See each response – even Mercedes felt very man-ish to me. Basically I’m a man, IF you disagree with me I’m gonna pound on you, call you names….or just tell you you’re stupid and invalidate you.

    And I was a name caler too – still am, my boyfriend can be truly honestly such a dumb a** I just would be speechless except for that word. And once, I didn’t even know Loneplum was posting and then I get these emails -she’s attacking you – so I go and call her a sadist. And really? I didn’t even care so much what she’d said – I just felt bad for my friends who were upset.

    but I don’t want to be that way anymore. And I don’t want to have people who do that in my space, but most of all I want to be like what Daria said, what someone else did…is not me. I didn’t do that and so what? That person over there is….blah blah blah…..

    and it doesn’t have to affect me one bit.

    for me, instead of respect issues it brought up/brings up the raised in an alcoholic home thinking of what’s really real? I mean we’re being called names, talked down to – but some of us are loving it, and I’m confused. Was that an insult, does he get to talk like that cuz he’s a man…etc.

    For Lucy it brings up respect….

    and I guess for everyone it’s all about the practicing.

    and the deciding. We get to decide – no matter what anyone says, we still get to decide who we believe, who we admire, who we’d want to have on our side, at our back…

    and we can still, somehow, find a space to allow for everyone?

    We don’t really have much choice in that do we?

    So I come here and here we are….mirroring.

    Which I think is very cool!

    And I’m determined to get to bed before 2 a.m. tonite…so once again, nite all….

  293.  #293Angel Lady on April 14, 2011 at 9:54 pm

    Lucy – It’s ok. I won’t judge you. (soft smile) I understand how you feel and promise to have compassion and be an open and loving space for you to work on yourself at your own pace.

  294.  #294Queenbee on April 14, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    Hey Daria – yes, that’s what I meant. Your earth day poster – I really loved it!

    What do you think about this?

    I [Think](feel) “it’s a great shame” (sad) that a man would choose to communicate abrasively when there are so many better options. I don’t take it personally though and [think](see) it as part of the ‘scenery’. I [think](accept) it is not my problem to ‘fix’ it/ him and mum would say they were raised badly – LOL!


  295.  #295Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    Lucy – funny in its own way it brought it up for both of us! and thank you – as you can see my actual sister relationship is pretty not all that safe…smile.

    So it felt great to be able to tell you I was sorry and I didn’t mean to negate you – I was just saying what I thought, no emotional fallout intended.

    And sometimes, there still is emotional fallout.

    But not as often as if and when we torpedo someone, huh?

    You’re right, it is scary, fragile and fraught…for me I know what I know tho – deep inside….no one’s going to invalidate me. They may have an opinion, they may kick and scream and make me read it over and over and over….but it’s never going to change me if I don’t want it to.

    And that’s true for you too. Feel it, find it…deep inside. I promise you, I see it, I feel it – there is a YOU in there that is an immovable force. And you deserve that, just as we all deserve a tone of respect.

    We might not get it tho, and we’ll be okay with that, too.

    I don’t think I’ll ever be someone who likes to argue – but we can both be someones who like to be here and feel like we have a voice and it’s okay to be heard!

    Sounds like today was rough, hope you get some good rest and have beautiful springtime dancing dreams!

    Angelwings on your pillow,


  296.  #296LD on April 14, 2011 at 10:00 pm


    OMG I so feel your pain here! I can barely pee with a man around (sometimes turn on the water so he can’t hear lol) much less poo! Let me know how that works out for you because HotArmyGuy invited me on a week long vacation and I really don’t think I can hold it an entire week! LOL

  297.  #297Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 10:01 pm

    Jacqueline, thanks, that sheds some more light on it… I too feel confused… I feel intrigued about the alcoholic thing… and do we “allow” if we Are being treated poorly? Do we express feelings and don’t wants and then leave the blog if we continue to feel disrespected (walk away)? I do feel intrigued too by how some women seem to be “loving it” as you say… and I wonder about that and feel pulled to psychoanalyze them bc that is part of my training…but I also don’t want to judge or question tht here

  298.  #298Nikita on April 14, 2011 at 10:11 pm

    Um, I was thinking maybe I need to have a “talk” or something? Like……uh, this isn’t going anywhere but why complain, when you can just share me! 😉
    No hard feelings, right babe?

  299.  #299Jacqueline on April 14, 2011 at 10:12 pm

    It seems masculine voice is given huge leeway here for sure. Don’t know why. And I don’t know the answer – Daria is a good model tho – we just walk away in plain site. Like I didn’t know Rusty had said that to you because I just don’t read his posts – I barely even caught that one to QB…so for me I think it’s more of an allowing, observing. And the alcoholic thing is universal – your parents are saying oh, no everything’s fine, you’re wrong…and then your mom’s like writing down what time your dad comes home from the bar every night and she’s a rage aholic and you KNOW everything IS NOT fine…

    I’ve pretty much outgrown all forms of residual confusion from it….and now I’m growing in my hopefully – allowing.

    See everyone tomorrow,

  300.  #300Nikita on April 14, 2011 at 10:13 pm

    I feel angry. I feel frustrated. I feel vengeful.

  301.  #301Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 10:16 pm

    295 I guess the bottom line is if it feels bad enough and expressing our feelings and boundaries doesn’t change anything, we can choose to leave. There is enough in life that feels bad without staying in a bad-feeling environment where I don’t have to be. Rori does want this to be a safe non-judging place though so it would be nice if her guidelines can be followed more. Goodnight Jacqueline and thanks so much – I feel so happy about being at peace with you. <3

  302.  #302Queenbee on April 14, 2011 at 10:16 pm

    RE: 296, LD, Jilly – I guess that is why I didn’t want to go with him on Easter vacay and sleep in the same room.

    But it’s more than that. I don’t think it’s all men – just him! I wonder why ‘him’…

    In my neck of the woods, I don’t want to be seen in a hotel with a man that I’m not married to. It triggers loads of criticism, which I don’t want associated with my name.

    I also want to keep a polished lifestyle and I don’t want a man seeing me getting dressed etc. I’d just rather be dressed and have him knock on my door and pick me – like in the movie ‘Pretty Woman’ with Richard Gear and ‘what’s her face’ – I do love her btw.

    The hotel rooms with the door in the middle would be perfect 🙂

    But anyway, it’s all water under the bridge now….


  303.  #303Brenda on April 14, 2011 at 10:16 pm


    RE; #114 – Thank you! Mr. Landscaper with the goatee texted me tonight, after receiving my unsolicited email! LOL!

    I felt so happy! He asked me when he could call tomorrow (it was late) and said we should talk! Ha! I like leaning forward, initiating, and overfunctioning SOMETIMES!

    The answer to your question is at a job, you use all the boy energy you want! Go get ’em! It’s with a man that we use our girl energy. Personally, I still like to deal with conflicts at jobs with feeling messages.

    Best wishes, Brenda

  304.  #304Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 10:23 pm

    Brenda, I feel excited about Mr. Landscaper!!!!!

  305.  #305Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 10:34 pm

    Queenbee, Jilly, LD – Many marriage counselors actually advise doing what you described QB – getting dressed, “toileting,” grooming, etc in private so he just sees the “finished product” and enjoys the mystery of how it is all accomplished and maintained…. (with of course the exception of those times when you are dressing/undressing as part of love-making or intimate moments)… I’m sure there are pros/cons and preferences both ways… and I don’t have a strong opinion either way (altho I prefer to keep t

  306.  #306Lin on April 14, 2011 at 10:34 pm

    Girls, need an outsider’s idea. i told him i felt diconnected that there is no communication and hope to hear from him more. he apologized and part of the reply from him below. i think it is a polite way to indicate he has forgotten me and have no interest in me. i need to move on. Pls let me know your thoughts.

    I am sorry to hear you feel this way, and also sorry for not being in touch with you. I have not intentionlly ignored you or avoided talking to you. From time to time I simply forget to get in touch with people, however it is also okay for the other person to say hi when there has been some time since the last communication.
    Anway, I do hope things start to improve for you, and I’ll try not to have such a break between being in contact. Would be good to know your thoughts and how you’re feeling. Is often better just to get it out.

  307.  #307Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 10:35 pm

    toileting private)… but just wanted to share that that is one perspective of some “experts.”

  308.  #308Daria on April 14, 2011 at 10:57 pm

    I felt surprised and intrigued about my personal exchange with Rusty. I told him I felt bad being talked to a certain way.

    He ‘explained’ to me… A reason for not putting my feelings first.

    I said that still felt bad and I don’t want to communicate with a man who doesnt prioritize my feelings.

    He stopped communicating with me.

    I felt a little sad, a little lonely… And powerful and honored at the same time.

  309.  #309Daria on April 14, 2011 at 11:00 pm

    Lin – I feel bad reading his reply. It feels confusing a bit.

    I would completely focus on me… Style my hair a new way, paint my toes, put together an extravagant outfit… And even wear it! Take myself out alone!

  310.  #310Queenbee on April 14, 2011 at 11:02 pm

    RE: 305 – Lucy, thanks for that! That feels so much better. I was feeling really confused and wondering ‘what was wrong with me’ – lol, and why I felt this way.

    Yes, I totally prefer it like that.

    So now, the big dilemma – how do you go on vacay with a man and stay in the same room?

    Not that I’m going to do it – but how?

    How do married couples live/ sleep in the same room for 40 years of marriage? – I’ll ask mum 🙂

    I personally prefer ‘His and Hers’ at all levels 🙂 but that’s just me…


  311.  #311Daria on April 14, 2011 at 11:03 pm

    Instead of leaving the blog, I started, at Roris suggestion , to skip posts that feel bad to me to read.

  312.  #312Lin on April 14, 2011 at 11:06 pm

    thanks Daria.

  313.  #313Brenda on April 14, 2011 at 11:09 pm


    RE: #308 – I just developed the No Bra Tool (***giggles with her hand over her mouth!***)…Sirens can help open their vibe by interacting with a man with no bra on.

    Rusty, would you like that tool? LOL! It’s late…I’m being silly! 😆

  314.  #314Daria on April 14, 2011 at 11:09 pm

    Queenbee – thank you! I feel excited that you liked my earth day signs. I feel very insecure (Nv says Really???). Haha yes really I am awesome. It is ok to feel awesome.

    Also noticing a trigger due to this exchange: feeling guilty… Actually afraid I’ll ‘lose’ validation from someone (you) where I received it before. Addiction to outside validation… Clinging. This is awesome – I feel so excited – to start noticing this and healing it.

    I [Think](feel) “it’s a great shame” (sad) that a man would choose to communicate abrasively when there are so many better options. I don’t take it personally though and [think](see) it as part of the ‘scenery’. I [think](accept) it is not my problem to ‘fix’ it/ him and mum would say they were raised badly – LOL!

    Fm: I feel sad. I feel disconnected. I feel judgemental.

  315.  #315Nikita on April 14, 2011 at 11:10 pm

    Taking my little angry ass to sleep. Nite Lucy

    I feel so angry I could spit nails.and sucks sleeping next to someone that is not rowing!

    I have a date! Sorta. I think. Maybe my date will help me appreciate the relationship I have….or maybe….I’ll get angrier

  316.  #316Daria on April 14, 2011 at 11:11 pm

    Brenda I’ve bern using the no bra tool for years! I even used to get called ‘nipples’

  317.  #317Angel Lady on April 14, 2011 at 11:11 pm

    Lucy – Practicing i feel and don’t want statements sounds like a great idea!

    A great way to practice in a “safe” environment. It may be easier and more automatic in the “real world” then.

    I feel confused.

    I don’t want anyone leaving this forum and not wanting to come back.

  318.  #318Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 11:17 pm

    QB, glad it helped! To be honest, in my marriage I would’ve preferred my ex-h to have a little “mystery” around himself in that regard – he freely exposed me to every bit of his activities altho I often chose to remove myself from the less pleasant things. Lol. I did maintain some of my own privacy throughout our marriage. This topic was actually part of some episodes of How I Met Your Mother – Lily and Marshall had lived together for like 9 yrs and still maintained some privacy to keep things “new.”

  319.  #319Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 11:25 pm

    Daria 308. That helps me see how it might “work out,” thanks. I didn’t see that exchange – was it on the other thread? I find it hard to ignore bad-feeling posts bc I feel so curious about what ppl have to say. I feel afraid that if I try to ignore I will be stuffing feelings and then I might eventually explode and tell ppl off. 🙁 I don’t want to do that. It feels bad the rare times I “lose it.”

  320.  #320Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 11:31 pm

    And then of course I am “the bad guy.” Oh, memory: My older sister used to whisper nasty critical things to me with a smile, I would tell her to stop but she’d keep whspering and whispering (so our parents wouldn’t hear) w that smile. I would tell my parents and they would just tell her to stop but not enforce it… and eventually I couldn’t take it anymore and would haul off and hit her – which my parents would see and punish me for while she sat and smiled smugly. She would do this in he car or other plac

  321.  #321Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 11:33 pm

    place where I was unable to get away. Hello trigger.

  322.  #322Daria on April 14, 2011 at 11:42 pm

    Thank you Daria for putting aloe Vera and comfrey oil on my face .

    Thank you for rubbing comfrey oil on my feet.

    Thank you for brushing my teeth and my hair.

    Thank you for feeding me Yummy food and fruit!

    Thank you for taking me home today.

    Thank you for speaking up for me with dman and manlyman.

    Thank you for showering me.

    Thank you for doing ho’oponopono.

    Thank you for uploading my artwork.

    Thank you for making me art.

    Thank you for touching and painting me with love.

    Thank you for waking me up in the morning in a comfortable. Way.

  323.  #323Daria on April 14, 2011 at 11:45 pm

    I used to not want to ignore bad feeling posts because of intrigue and feeling proud of an acvomplishment – reading all – and for fear ofisding. I’ve transformed. Now it’s what comes up for me to do. Trusting, following intuition

  324.  #324Lucy on April 14, 2011 at 11:52 pm

    trusting intuition, yes! That feels good. 🙂 ty.

  325.  #325Lilybelle on April 15, 2011 at 3:48 am


    This is an excellent way to start my day. The way you are sensing my vibe, is exactly what and how I am working toward being.

    I feel thrilled that this is how I am being experienced. I AM on the right track!

    Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  326.  #326Lilybelle on April 15, 2011 at 3:54 am

    257: Daria~
    Thank you for sharing your art. I feel smiley when I look at the “E” with the flowers in it. I love flowers and I loved your work!


  327.  #327Mel on April 15, 2011 at 5:19 am

    Re 285 Angel Lady

    Sometimes it does feel one sided. A while back my husband and I were having a “serious” conversation (this was pre-Rori). I was being assertive and said that I was feeling as though some of my needs were not being met and suspected he might feel the same way, so perhaps we could share and become aware of each others’ needs.

    He basically spent 20 minutes telling me some really hard things to hear. I listened and accepted them and took them to heart. BTW, I cried and he just ignored it.

    Then when it was my turn to share, within 2 minutes he withdrew, shut down and stopped listening. I was left feeling horrible, unheard and misunderstood.

    Since learning some of Rori’s tools, our interactions are going better. I’m finding ways to express myself without sounding too critical or blamey. But yeah… it can be frustrating to feel like you have to take whatever is spewed at you, but you have to almost walk on eggshells to express yourself to him.

    I think it’s a process. The more I speak only MY truth, and stop blaming, the less he speaks out of anger and the more he listens. It’s like if someone is being polite and caring, and diplomatic, it’s very hard to treat them poorly. It’s the whole treat others as you would like to be treated idea.

    Tinque, who has a fabulous blog BTW, has a great post about dealing with verbal abuse. I’ve learned from her that if despite expressing yourself in only feeling messages, he still gets mean or rude, you don’t have to tolerate it. I’ve found that I’ve had good results using the phrase “this feels bad.” or “I’m feeling disrespected.” and then just walking away and doing something that will make me happy.

    Here’s a link to her post on verbal abuse:

    She also wrote a great one on boundaries this week, so I thought I’d link to it as well:

    Keep at it though! Sometimes things take a little while to turn around. On a happy note, I noticed that last night my husband was actually smiling at me while we chatted about our days. That hasn’t happened for a LONG time, so I feel great to see it emerging again. I practiced Rori’s listening tools and just sat there taking it all in… looking up at him and smiling. It’s not a quick fix, but results DO come as you work on yourself.

  328.  #328Mel on April 15, 2011 at 5:22 am

    Does anyone know what would cause a post to be sent to moderation? I put in two links… perhaps that’s why? Odd, that’s never happened before!

  329.  #329Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 5:57 am

    RE 311 yayy Daria

  330.  #330Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 6:02 am

    Yes it is the two links.

  331.  #331Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 6:03 am

    RE 325 You are most welcome. It helps me also to be sensitive to people.

  332.  #332Mel on April 15, 2011 at 6:03 am

    Should I repost without them or will it eventually get posted?

  333.  #333Mel on April 15, 2011 at 6:09 am


    That’s great that he texted you! I guess your “no bra tool” works like a charm!

  334.  #334Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 6:15 am

    It will eventually get posted but sometimes I just repost.

  335.  #335Mel on April 15, 2011 at 6:17 am

    Hopefully this won’t be a duplicate post… my last one was sent to moderation.

    Re 285 Angel Lady

    Sometimes it does feel one sided. A while back my husband and I were having a “serious” conversation (this was pre-Rori). I was being assertive and said that I was feeling as though some of my needs were not being met and suspected he might feel the same way, so perhaps we could share and become aware of each others’ needs.

    He basically spent 20 minutes telling me some really hard things to hear. I listened and accepted them and took them to heart. BTW, I cried and he just ignored it.

    Then when it was my turn to share, within 2 minutes he withdrew, shut down and stopped listening. I was left feeling horrible, unheard and misunderstood.

    Since learning some of Rori’s tools, our interactions are going better. I’m finding ways to express myself without sounding too critical or blamey. But yeah… it can be frustrating to feel like you have to take whatever is spewed at you, but you have to almost walk on eggshells to express yourself to him.

    I think it’s a process. The more I speak only MY truth, and stop blaming, the less he speaks out of anger and the more he listens. It’s like if someone is being polite and caring, and diplomatic, it’s very hard to treat them poorly. It’s the whole treat others as you would like to be treated idea.

    Tinque, who has a fabulous blog BTW, has a great post about dealing with verbal abuse. I’ve learned from her that if despite expressing yourself in only feeling messages, he still gets mean or rude, you don’t have to tolerate it. I’ve found that I’ve had good results using the phrase “this feels bad.” or “I’m feeling disrespected.” and then just walking away and doing something that will make me happy. You can find her blog at sexandheart (dot) com.

    Keep at it though! Sometimes things take a little while to turn around. On a happy note, I noticed that last night my husband was actually smiling at me while we chatted about our days. That hasn’t happened for a LONG time, so I feel great to see it emerging again. I practiced Rori’s listening tools and just sat there taking it all in… looking up at him and smiling. It’s not a quick fix, but results DO come as you work on yourself.

  336.  #336Mercedes on April 15, 2011 at 6:18 am


    “And Mercedes said she was having FUN being sarcastic…I cringed.

    See each response – even Mercedes felt very man-ish to me. Basically I’m a man, IF you disagree with me I’m gonna pound on you, call you names….or just tell you you’re stupid and invalidate you.”

    I think we get it. You don’t like my personality and you’re willing to accuse me of things I didn’t do so you can prove a point (I never called Evan stupid and I never invalidated him…merely disagreed with him). Now will you please stop talking to me or about me? I’d really appreciate it.

    And just so you are aware, as a favor to a friend, I posted a response on Evan’s blog. I was not sarcastic or rude, never called him names, nothing. He responed by telling me I was “glossing over” his issues and “merely explaining” how he doesn’t understand. I apologized for not being able to find the right words and I tried again. Guess what? No response. I know you love Evan but please be aware, he’s not exactly being a sweetheart either.

  337.  #337Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 6:22 am

    Lucy while reading through some of your comments on 288 and 289 these words from Rori’s previous post came to mind for some reason. I hope I don’t create a trigger for you. I was also wondering why is she telling herself these stories? It felt to me like you were in defense mode. I like Jacqueline’s response in 292 that we get to decide.

    “Just because a man triggers you doesn’t mean it’s about him.
    And with a regular man who’s simply done something wrong – something that made you feel bad or angry – talking about HIM will only get his defenses operating full tilt.
    His ego and his boundaries won’t allow you to run him down – even if you’re right.
    When you are alone or with a therapist – you can explore other things – but ALWAYS – talking about OTHERS is not the way to go.
    You are always just talking about yourself and REACTING to others.
    So as you write – privately in your journals, and here, on this monumental journal of all of us – see if you can share your deepest feelings without involving other people at all…(except to set context by saying lightly what happened to trigger you”

  338.  #338Violet on April 15, 2011 at 6:30 am


    I like that you are giving your perspective on things. Your words go hand-in-hand with what Rori advises.

    I’ll say it out straight, your approach is 360 degrees the opposite of Evan’s. As a matter of fact, Evan would do well to learn from you!

    His approach comes across as confronational, smug, and like he is the King of what men are all about. I had an instant ‘knee-jerk’ reaction to how he came across to women.

    I’ll lay it out straight… I call Evan or any other individual on the line for expressing the equivalent of ‘ignorant’ attitudes.

    ‘If’ Evan, or anyone else spoke to me with that tone, I’d be all up, down, and sideways on them so fast, it would make their head spin.

    He is NOT the King God of what ALL men are like. Well… I’m done wasting my time on his ‘so called’ advice on how women shouda, wouda, couda act. Enough said.

    Rusty…. I thank you and appreciate your approach towards us as individuals. Your statements concerning men’s instincts and how women can tap into them certainly caught my attention and spoke truth in a non-confrontational way.

    You make it so much easier for me to understand how men act and react towards women according to the way they approach men (and visa-versa)

    And, thanks to Rori and all Sirens for making my participation in these blogs worthwhile,

    ~ Violet ~

  339.  #339Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 6:30 am

    RE 334 Congrats Mel. Carol Allen suggests that we all come preloaded from the factory with certain personality traits. One of the things I saw was that some come preloaded as harsh. I believe some people become harsh because of life experiences also, myself included. I have someone who is harsh and when he apolgoized recently I told him I understand that is the way he is and that I am not there to judge him because only he knows his life experiences. He seemed to soften a bit after that. My intention was to communicate that I “get him” and I also am practicing so that I don’t get triggered in the face of such harshness. My opinion is that my life is not dependent on him or things he says to me because I can walk away.

    I know your situation is different but I believe that you have enough evidence that with time, things can change if the person is inspired to do so. It felt really great to read about the smile he now gives.

  340.  #340sweetmandm on April 15, 2011 at 6:33 am


    Been thinking about you and wondering how you’re doing…………


  341.  #341Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 6:35 am

    RE 337 Violet that reminded me of Renee Piane who said “there is a lid for every pot. I also remember the words variety is the spice of life and when we see how relationships don’t work then we get to learn how it will learn for us. The differences in styles show us how we will be with each and maybe what we should be looking for in our personal lives.

  342.  #342Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 6:38 am

    I been thinking about Ann because she seemed to have been mad at the man, mad at herself and mad at some of us when she left.

    Meemee I feel confident that you will create the result that works best for you. For some reason I believe you have grown a lot because of this experience.

  343.  #343Mel on April 15, 2011 at 6:38 am

    “preloaded from the factory” I like this expression!

    As a bit of a techie myself, I am all to aware that factory settings aren’t always the most optimal or user friendly. I know I have a few factory settings that I’m trying to iron the kinks out of! 🙂 I need a bit of a firmware update!

    I LOVED the smile too. Part of this, I’m sure is that I have made an effort to notice if I smile at him while I’m talking and to do it more often. So much of what we do as humans is a dance or action-reaction.

  344.  #344Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 6:49 am

    Oh no

    Aries Horoscopes — Your workmates may be extra critical of your actions as the picky Virgo Moon visits your 6th House of Details today. However, you’re not in the mood to change your behavior just to placate someone else. Perhaps you are being judged unfairly, but you would still be wise to consider how to address their concerns before you completely shut them out. This could be a significant opportunity for you to improve your game, rather than complaining about others who don’t appreciate what you do.

  345.  #345Mel on April 15, 2011 at 6:52 am

    LOL, “picky virgo moon”

    That maybe explains my tendency to overanalyze everything. I’m a typical virgo, I think. Both me AND hubby are, actually.

  346.  #346Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 6:55 am

    “The Power of Words.”
    Got this from Chris Cade

    Every single person on this planet has gifts and wisdom that will help others. You personally have the “Power of Words” inside of yourself and every time you give somebody advice, share your story, or help them see things from a new perspective… you are simultaneously expressing that power and helping other people discover that power within themselves.

  347.  #347Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 6:58 am

    Virgo Horoscopes

    The Moon’s visit to dutiful Virgo is a mixed blessing now. On one hand, you aspire toward quality in your work and in your relationships. Fortunately, sound data allows you to think clearly and make wise decisions. On the other hand, the Moon emphasizes your subjective feelings, which can have you reconsidering a recent decision. Listening to both your head and your heart will lead to the best of both worlds.

  348.  #348Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 7:03 am

    I understand from Carol Allen it is natural for those “windy” signs to be overanalytical and you could analyze things to death. I deal with one in real life and I tell him sometimes he suffers from paralysis of analysis. Sometimes I find it overwhelming but he understands and will ask if I want to take a break and then get back to it.

    I also understand from Dr. Paul that when you both have the same emotional style, over the long haul you might need to go outside the relationship to get the emotional balance that you need.

  349.  #349Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 7:05 am

    Come to think of it this one I deal with does tell me that he has a support system that he uses to balance his needs. His wife I believe is born either March or April.

  350.  #350Mel on April 15, 2011 at 7:07 am

    Can you clarify:
    “you might need to go outside the relationship to get the emotional balance that you need.”

    Do you mean friends/activities?

  351.  #351Lily T. on April 15, 2011 at 7:11 am

    @Mercedes #335

    I read your comments on EMK’s blog yesterday and I think you did a GREAT job of trying to explain CD. Especially given the climate about it over there. You are one of the people it worked for, the kind of example people need to hear about.

    Honestly, I think no matter how well, or how patiently something is explained, there are people unwillingly to hear it because they Just. Don’t. Want. To. They believe their way is best and anything else won’t work. Frustrating.

    Just wanted to let you know you were heard and did a wonderful job.

  352.  #352Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 7:23 am

    Yes I believe that was what he was saying Mel. This to create some intellectual challenge around different styles. Interacting with different people can bring in the variety.

  353.  #353Brenda on April 15, 2011 at 7:27 am

    Bummer!!! Mr. Landscaper is married. We just talked and I’m glad he was honest about not being single. But he said if you’re ever frisky give me a call and we can hang out.

    I said I’m kind of a package deal: my heart goes with my body, but thanks anyway. Now I feel really embarrassed and hope I don’t see him again before I move! Thank God I’m moving!

  354.  #354Mercedes on April 15, 2011 at 7:28 am

    Thank you Lily T! It’s super nice to be heard. And you know, I really wasn’t trying to convince Evan because his opinion doesn’t matter so much to me. A response on his part, since I took the time to visit his blog, would have been nice…ESPECIALLY after I did what he asked and addressed his two “logical points”. (and I don’t generally post things just because a man tells me to so that was a big step for me)

    Mostly, I was in “defend Rori” mode because it really is VERY unfair how he’s treating her…especially after she invited him here. I get that they are friends and I get that she isn’t bothered at all by what he says, but he made a comparison about women driving down sidewalks (uh…playing on the “women drivers” stereotype?? and he gets upset when women think he’s a sexist…ummm…excuse me??) and gave a total misrepresentation of the tool. So I talked. He ignored.

    Anyway…as he said…Rori’s distribution list dwarfs his…so I can see where she wouldn’t be intimidated by him. As a matter of fact, when a man is being rude and misrepresenting, she’s the absolute prime example of leaning back and not taking the bait. LOVE IT!!!

    (but couldn’t do it. lol)

    I was so upset after reading his post though that I cut out parts where he is totally obnoxious and misrepresenting and wrote comments to him. I did it for myself because I needed to vent but I’m seriously considering posting it on my blog (which should make zero difference to him as I don’t think we probably have a single follower in common). Guys like that should be called out and I think ignoring him and letting him continue without saying anything is a mistake. Huge mistake.

    Much Love,

  355.  #355Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 7:29 am

    Some time ago I got an email from EMK about Do you want to be the center of his universe. In trying to see Lucy’s point of view that they do say the same things, I just reread it and had to laugh when I saw the words “the best way to get a man to want to be with you is to play it cool. To lean back and let him win you over with his efforts.”

  356.  #356Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 7:38 am

    Here is some cut and paste from what I Just received this from Rori


    We have power!

    If Lillian, or any one of us, feel love for a man, and choose to express it – like, “I feel so much love in my heart when I see your beautiful face” – then EXPRESSING it (without any caring at all what happens or what he does after we express it) has to be ALL we want.

    If there’s even a tiny, tiny bit of expecting him to do the same – then we’ll push him away.

    He won’t feel our love, he’ll feel PRESSURE.

    He won’t feel our open heart and body and passion just ready for him to dive into – he’ll feel our expectation. He’ll feel that we want something from him.

    And that feeling of being pushed and pulled will send ANY man running for the hills.

    To REVERSE this:

    1. Step BACK.

    I know how hard this is – and yet it WORKS.

    It works – as long as you don’t FAKE it.

    You can’t PRETEND to “Step-Back” – that’s just old-fashioned “playing hard-to-get” – and though it might work for a day, or even a week, it won’t last much more than that.

    A man will pick up right away that you’re just playing ‘a game” – and it will make you come across even needier and more desperate than before – with the ADDED non-attractive quality of him thinking you’re dishonest.

    The trick here is to NOT play a game – but to actually Step Back for reasons of your OWN.

    For GOOD reasons – reasons you’ve discovered for YOURSELF.

    2. Stop Doing “Giving” Things.

    No matter how desperate you feel, if you STOP DOING all those giving things you’re doing – the words of love, the emails, the reaching out – you will bring him back.

    And you can simply STOP doing these things without playing games or making phoney excuses.

    The truth is – those things are things YOU’VE been doing for HIM – and so you can stop doing them WITHOUT having to EXPLAIN at all!

    Yet, I know how easy it is to just say STOP.

    It’s like saying “Just relax.”

    Yeah, it makes sense, but how do you do it?

    That’s what my Tools are for.

    You have me helping you feel so much stronger – so that you can actually stay away from the phone and the computer.

    So that you can stop initiating contact and stop initiating “love talk” and stop trying to push and pull him down the Relationship Timeline.

    So that you can give him some room to move TOWARD you.

  357.  #357Mel on April 15, 2011 at 7:39 am

    Re 353;

    That’s crappy Brenda! You conducted yourself with authenticity and integrity though! Kudos!

  358.  #358Mercedes on April 15, 2011 at 7:44 am

    FP: I have been reading more of Evan’s stuff too so that I could try to make a comparison. I think I see a few similarities but from what I can tell, Evan says to wait for a man (play it cool) for 2 or 3 years (that part is unclear) if you, as the woman, are under the age of 40. If you are over the age of 40 you only have to wait one year before you dump him. I guess as we reach 40 either we’ll attract men who are faster at knowing what they want or we have to dump them because we’re “wasting biological clocks” and somehow find a man we can rush along. 🙁

    From what I can tell, his basic tool goes like this:

    Meet a man
    Wait 1, 2 or 3 years depending on your age.
    Dump him if he hasn’t proposed.
    Meet new man.
    Wait 1, 2 or 3 years depending on your age.
    Dump him if he hasn’t proposed.
    Meet new man….

    Until you find one who actually proposes within the timeframe.


  359.  #359Lily T. on April 15, 2011 at 7:48 am

    Re: 353:
    What bothered me was that he would come onto another coach’s blog and tell her readers one of her tools “doesn’t work” with “good men”. I found that completely out of line. If he wants to write something helpful here why not the “You don’t attract the wrong men, you ACCEPT the wrong men” thesis? Something more in line with the blog host’s philosophy?

    The one good thing about all this brouhaha for me is that instead of popping in here, reading a little, and popping out (as I usually did) – I stuck around and read some of the threads in their entirity and started posting myself. Through this I learned more about cd’ing and it’s various applications. Each application may not work for each individual or couple, but they are options available to try. They serve to get you thinking about what kind of relationship you want whether you are single or already coupled and having difficulties.

    So I can thank EMK and his attitude and the controversy he created for opening ME up to reading and learning more here. 🙂

  360.  #360Mercedes on April 15, 2011 at 7:50 am

    Personally, I don’t think we have to wait or play it cool to bring a man closer to us. I think there are a LOT of tools out there that are designed to teach us how to inspire a man to move closer to us so it doesn’t take him years to know what he wants. If we use those things, there is no need to wait (play it cool) for a set amount of time based on our age before we are free to take a 1, 2 or 3 year chance on another man.

  361.  #361Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 7:51 am

    Wow. This is from Carol Allen email
    But because he doesn’t have that THIS IS IT feeling, he won’t move the relationship forward.

    He won’t commit.

    Here’s the really crazy part…

    He may become exclusive with you.

    He may even live with you.

    But he’ll know THE WHOLE TIME that it will never lead to “forever…”

    But he won’t tell you that unless you ASK.

    But so many women are afraid to ask such tough questions, and instead hope day after day, month after month, and even YEAR AFTER YEAR that he’ll “come around.”

    Big mistake!

    Men who will date you for years but not propose, or live with you but know all along that it’s temporary, may keep you from ever creating marriage and family – so please ASK them what’s up if too much time passes…

    But here’s the thing – to create that “this is it” feeling with a man, you have to do something else entirely.

    All you have to do is be fully in YOUR OWN heart and SOUL to get into his…

  362.  #362Mercedes on April 15, 2011 at 7:53 am

    Lily T.: Yup…that is what got me too:

    “one of her tools “doesn’t work” with “good men””

    In my “rant” to myself, I asked someone else to explain to J that either what happened with us didn’t work (it is only as we want it to be, not as it really is) or that it did work but he’s not a good man. I said I wasn’t going to be the one to tell him but maybe Evan could do it for me. LOL

  363.  #363Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 7:55 am

    Mercedes I totally get your point. But I can see his also because cdating doesn’t serve their agenda or at least some of them.

  364.  #364LD on April 15, 2011 at 8:00 am


    My mother has been happily married to my stepdad for 25 years and she swears the secrets to their happiness are in 3 things:

    1) a real date with each other once a week. He plans it and just tells her what time to be ready.

    2) 3 bank accounts-theirs for the household expenses plus each one has their own separate “play” account. They can do whatever they want with their play account and don’t have to explain or account for it. This keeps them from fighting about money.

    3) separate bathrooms. They actually remodeled their house to enlarge their master bathroom and make it into 2 separate “His and Hers” bathrooms. My mom’s is girly and romantic and my stepdad’s is a very masculine chrome and stone.

  365.  #365Mercedes on April 15, 2011 at 8:04 am

    FP: I agree that for a lot of men it doesn’t serve their agenda but…that doesn’t mean it can’t serve a good man’s agenda. I posted on an earlier thread and on Evan’s blog about what it did for J, as a man, who was afraid of moving forward. It changed our lives together and we are both grateful.

    I get why Evan doesn’t agree. It’s the absolutes in his writing that bother me so much. It “doesn’t work” (when HE has had dialog with women who it DID WORK for). Saying things about how “good men” do things when I personally have a GOOD man who doesn’t behave or talk about women the way Evan does. He says a lot of “never” “always” “this is how it really is” “not my opinion. Fact about how men think.”, etc. There are great men in this world who are nothing like Evan and who absolutely DO NOT think like him. He makes it sound like unless things are done his way, it won’t work and the man won’t be a good one.

    I disagree because if a “good man” is the kind of man who talks to women the way Evan does then…thanks but no thanks. LOL

    I am super curious how old he is and how long he’s been married. I’m guessing he’s pretty young because his words don’t seem to have a mature quality to them. He writes like a lot of the guys I meet in bars talk. These guys are 22 or so years old and have no intention of getting serious right now…with many of them, yes, it’s going to take time. But wtih mature men…the ones who are past the “party til dawn and have shot contests” age…with them, tools can inspire them to come close to us and years do not need to be wasted while he figures it out.

    Oh well…Evan is getting way too much of my energy lately. LOL

  366.  #366Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 8:10 am

    RE 364 I agree your energy can valuably be used in other areas here.

  367.  #367Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 8:17 am

    Mercedes I just realized there was a reference to a “good man” so now I understand your passion better. Also it is pointless to argue with someone’s experience. So if that was your experience I can’t see how he could engage you into thinking his way.

  368.  #368Elizabeth on April 15, 2011 at 8:28 am

    364 Mercedes Oh well…Evan is getting way too much of my energy lately. LOL



    disclaimer: i am writing this for myself, resemblance to any other person, place or thing is completely coincidental

    I’m pretty sure it was LD who said something recently about breaking a pattern of hiring bad men to help her punish herself.

    In the case of over-explaining, over-defending, and just plain giving too much importance to differences of opinion, justifying our likes and dislikes of communication styles, etc., it’s like hiring other people to fight with ourselves, disturb our peace, to make sure that what we do, think and say are OK.

    People will always find the evidence they are looking for to prove a point or to justify their world views, behaviors.

    At some point, we just have to give up control.

    I haven’t the time or the inclination for this anymore!!

    I’m not lecturing you, Ms. M, just talking to myself.


  369.  #369Nikita on April 15, 2011 at 8:28 am

    Happy Birthday Mercedes

  370.  #370Mercedes on April 15, 2011 at 8:33 am

    Elizabeth: “At some point, we just have to give up control.” I don’t see this ever happening with me. Haha! But I do think that sometimes we have to realize we are talking to a man with a closed mind. 🙂

    Nikita! I was thinking about you just this morning!!!! On my way to work! Wondering where you have been! OMG!! Thank you for the wishes and for being here!!

    And to everyone…again I want to thank you so much for the birthday wishes and warm thoughts and happy words….totally made my day! 🙂 (actually…my whole week!)

    Much Love,

  371.  #371Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 8:33 am

    RE 367 Interesting perspective. I have that function as well and have posted here before looking for a way to stop myself, this is surely helpful.

  372.  #372LD on April 15, 2011 at 8:35 am


    I agree with you, not every man is the same. There is no ONE set of rules that applies to every man. I have a guy friend who firmly believes that NO man is EVER intimidated by a woman-that that’s just a myth we women tell each other to make us feel better when a man is not that into us. Yet I have had several men in just the last 6 months directly tell me they felt intimidated by me.

    I have met men with whom the tools we learn here don’t work either. Men who LOVE lean forward, aggressive women who pursue them. One of my ex CDs who was lukewarm with me is now engaged after only a few months to a girl I know who decided he was what she wanted and went after him with all she had.

    I have met good men who seemed toxic and toxic men who seemed good. Marriage minded men who just weren’t ready to commit at a particular point and confirmed player/bachelors who committed after 3 dates with the right woman.

    It’s all case by case and that’s why I think what we learn here is more valuable than learning how to “handle” men like we read on other sites. Here we just learn to work on our own issues so that when the right man comes along, we are ready for him. : )

  373.  #373Mercedes on April 15, 2011 at 8:39 am

    LD: “Here we just learn to work on our own issues so that when the right man comes along, we are ready for him.”

    VERY, VERY well said!!

  374.  #374Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 8:39 am

    LD I see your comments in 371 as maybe the guys doing what they want and thinking it’s all about them working out their issues. A man will only be influenced by the tools if he wants to be influenced which in my mind is why it is therapy for us to get to know ourselves and what we want.

  375.  #375Mel on April 15, 2011 at 8:51 am

    “A man will only be influenced by the tools if he wants to be influenced”

    This couldn’t be more true!

  376.  #376Lily T. on April 15, 2011 at 8:55 am

    Mercedes #364:
    I believe he’s around 39 and has been married about 2.5 years.

  377.  #377Mercedes on April 15, 2011 at 8:57 am

    Thank you Lily T. The age surprises me…thought he would be younger. The years of marriage make sense based on some of the other things he’s referred to. Do you know how long he’s been coaching? Was he doing this before he got married?

  378.  #378Lily T. on April 15, 2011 at 9:03 am

    Great post LD.
    “I have met good men who seemed toxic and toxic men who seemed good.”

    So have I. One thing I hope to gain is the discernment to recognize which is which SOONER. 😉

  379.  #379Lily T. on April 15, 2011 at 9:08 am


    From what I remember he started out working at Jdate. Started a business helping people write their profiles and also wrote a couple books on online dating and “why you are still single”. His blog is 4 yrs. old. I’m not sure how long he has been coaching in the form he does now.

    I’ve read his blog for a few years. I like it in the main. I’m ‘used to’ his style/attitude over there. Bringing it over here, in what I considered a “kinder and gentler” place, was unsettling. I felt bad.

  380.  #380Ella on April 15, 2011 at 9:10 am

    Brenda – I’m liking the no bra tool – (giggles bashfully)

    I am not sure I am brave enough to do it though, except for the delivery man maybe 😉

    If I go out w/o a bra, unless the outfit really lends itself to that I always feel like they are swinging wildy out of control!


  381.  #381Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 9:10 am

    Carol Allen also talks about some men who just bring out the worst in us. I guess it also works vice versa. Now that I think about it I have a friend from teenage years who recently I felt just brought out the worst in me. Now that I am working on changing myslef and my communication style it seems we have started to get along better.

  382.  #382Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 9:14 am

    Wondering what is the intention behind the “no bra” tool?

  383.  #383Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 9:16 am

    kaitlyn, DE and Loneplum hope you are all okay.

  384.  #384Ella on April 15, 2011 at 9:26 am


    Hello Sirens.

    I have been exercising like a crazy person for the past few days practicing ready for my first ever Zumba class next Tuesday.

    I feel excited and a tad anxious (gonna work on throwing out those NVs).

    I am feeling physically quite tired and have ended up having quite a bit of sugar today (have cut down all week) in the form of marshmallow rice crispy cakes – lol.

    Now I feel a bit icky.

    Think I am getting sensitive to sugar!

    Well I am feeling quite tired but just had a nice bath and washed hair.

    (Thank you man for washing my hair and bathing me)

    Need to just have a little tidy up and could do with delivering a few flyers about the class!

    Have also been invited out for some drinks tonight…

    Ok, I am just going to take it nice and easy and do these bits and pieces at my own pace.

    And tonight I am going to practice leaning back, vagina breathing smiling.

    I am also going to practice European style drinking (ie being aware and iin control of what I drink). I am going to term it easy drinking (as opposed to fast/hard, lets get drunk drinking!).

    Right now I am going to have a little tidy up then put on some chilled music while I pick an outfit and make myself pretty.

    Hugs to all Sirens.


  385.  #385Ella on April 15, 2011 at 9:29 am

    Hello FW –

    As I see it the intention behind no bra tool is to be even more vulnerable with men, and another way to be open, less barriers.

    Not sure if that is what the others think.

    Also think it started as a bit of a tongue in cheek joke.


  386.  #386Darling Ella on April 15, 2011 at 9:32 am

    Gosh, I’ve had a busy and eventful couple of weeks…being busy my emotions at times get stuck…

    I noticed after I write on the blog (kinda of my “journal”), things clear up … is like God and the Universe hears me…weird 🙂 but in a good way 🙂

    So, last week I shared about joining a dancing studio…there are daily activities…yet, can’t go to all…i try to go there at least 2 or 3 times a week in the evening…so far, it’s been amazing…yet a bit intimidating…being new, i compare myself to the older students and trainers …lol not good :(…but part of me i want jump to their level…i always did that…everything i learned in life…i jumped one or two levels very quickly…i want to pace myself though this time…

    Anyhow, at the studio I have had my not so pleasant surprise to share time and space with the woman my ex been in Africa for 3 months…:( I know they been working together for about a year know…I also know she was in the process of a divorce…

    Last Thursday, my heart dropped to see her…I felt panicky at first…then uncomfortable…i avoided eye contact for the entire hour…yet she was soo close to me…

    I wondered the whole time…does she know who I am?…she must have heard ab me…i called once and she answered and when she heard my voice immediately said…u want to speak to J? I said yes, thank u…

    I also felt she avoided making contact with me too…not sure if was only projection…it also felt as an instinct within me raising up to protect me…

    I saw her again on Wednesday nite…again I avoided talking to her…at the end she complimented my sandals…i responded smiling…thank u, they are comfortable…

    And last nite, we were at the same table…she asked about my name, I shared my name and then she introduced herself…”Meg…or better Princess Margaret…that’s how they called me in Africa…funny, my family used to call me that when i was young girl”…

    Hmm…I so felt uncomfortable hearing her desiring to share about her “awesome” experiences in Africa…I could only manage to answer as sweetly as i could “wow…nice…that must feel good :)”…

    I felt glad the class started so I could just get away…

    I wondered again if she knows who I am…and if she intentionally tried to share about herself…to get a reaction…

    I know I won’t go there to talk about him to her or with anyone for that matter…even if at some point she is to ask me if I know him…I played in my mind different scenarios…like “Yes…he is an old acquaintance…and i feel uncomfortable talking about him” and the rest don’t sound too good…:(

    The ice has broken between us I guess…although I feel uncomfortable and afraid his name will come up…I feel strong about not promoting gossip…

    I feel thankful it is an environment where I can easily take my mind off of her or him…once I begin dancing and interacting with everyone else…

    I also celebrate three months from seeing him (thank u Universe for having him out of the country for all this time…) and about 6 weeks of absolute no contact (i requested in writing no contact…)

    I can see clearly now…:)

  387.  #387Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 9:34 am

    RE 383 Ella have you ever thought about taking B vitamins?

  388.  #388Darling Ella on April 15, 2011 at 9:41 am

    FW #346:

    Wow…I am a Virgo 🙂 Trying to catch with posts…and here is my confirmation…so funny…i posted my comment before reading this…wow…:)

    Btw, it feels good to be inquired about…again wow…u were just asking about me when i was typing…lol

    Virgo Horoscopes

    The Moon’s visit to dutiful Virgo is a mixed blessing now. On one hand, you aspire toward quality in your work and in your relationships. Fortunately, sound data allows you to think clearly and make wise decisions. On the other hand, the Moon emphasizes your subjective feelings, which can have you reconsidering a recent decision. Listening to both your head and your heart will lead to the best of both worlds.”

    Warm hugs,

  389.  #389sweetmandm on April 15, 2011 at 9:44 am

    Well Brenda-

    At least you know that whatever you had going on then worked well!!! Now you just need to have it available and ready for someone single! 😉


  390.  #390Brenda on April 15, 2011 at 9:59 am

    Feminine Power,

    As I said when I talked about the No Bra Tool, I was being playful. My intentions were to be playful and silly on the blog. I never planned to meet a man wearing no bra. It just happened.

  391.  #391Lilybelle on April 15, 2011 at 9:59 am

    Alonka? Where are you?

  392.  #392Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 10:02 am

    Yeah lilybelle I was missing her too and one of the names I missed mentioning above.

  393.  #393Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 10:03 am

    WonderWoman is the other person I am curious about. It feels like missing family when they are not here.

  394.  #394Elizabeth on April 15, 2011 at 10:16 am

    373: Femininepower says:

    “LD I see your comments in 371 as maybe the guys doing what they want and thinking it’s all about them working out their issues. A man will only be influenced by the tools if he wants to be influenced which in my mind is why it is therapy for us to get to know ourselves and what we want.”


    Yes, everybody’s doing their own thing, really, when you get right down to it. If there is some meshing, it might be worth exploring. And that is some real truth you’re speaking there about how a man will only be influenced by the tools if he wants to be. At some point you have to be able to discern if it’s you who is doing something wrong, or if you are just beating your head against a wall. I think the most important thing is to know what your deepest desires, motives, intentions and goals are, stick to those and let things happen. I really am weary of any kind of other formulas at this point!


  395.  #395Ella on April 15, 2011 at 10:17 am

    FW – No I haven’t thought about it…

    Is it because of saying I felt tired? i do get tired sometimes… but mostly because I work really really hard, and sometimes what I do is physically demanding.

    I do take a supplement – well woman which is just a mix of vitamins, minerals, starflower oil and evening primrose oil.

    And if I feel run down I take echinacea and vit c with zinc.

    I also took an iron supplement for a while (I used to be aneamic when I was young) but have run out of that and so stopped for now.

    What are you thinking with the b vits?

  396.  #396Ella on April 15, 2011 at 10:20 am

    Oh, hang on!

    I feel confused…

    I thought Femininepower was Femininewoman…

    Are you the same person with a new name or a new person?

  397.  #397Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 10:28 am

    It is the same person. I take B vitamins and I can concur that it gives energy.

  398.  #398Jacqueline on April 15, 2011 at 10:33 am

    Hey! Everyone….Hoping all is good for a pretty spring weekend.

    Brenda, oh, that is such a bummer!! I loved your response!

    Mercedes, I don’t LOVE EVAN! I love Scott McKay…heee….you don’t ned me to tell you to do what you will. For me it was more of a question as to what would have to happen for me to go straight to telling someone they weren’t qualified to be married and I now was disguted and felt 0 respect for him. It felt like 0 to 60 and inappropriate.

    I hear Evan saying – especially on facebook – date all the people you want, if you’re over 40 it’d be reasonable to give someone a year to decide.

    And his advice doesn’t apply to ANYONE here anyway – does it? He’s not OUR coach!!! That’s kind of my point. He posts here, it’s just like anyone else that triggers us posting.

    If you wanna go to his place to enlighten him, ummm…well, I’m glad you’re being respectful.

    But I wonder – are you actually respectful of the fact that he has a different opinion and method that is patently obviously at least somewhat successful on his blog? Cuz I really liked it when he compared it to his home….

    and then I have to wonder – so what? He has an opinion, you have an opinion. I’m glad you are in love…madly. But I would not want what you have, nor a man who loves debate and other things you’ve described in “J.”

    So – is that okay with you? Or are you then going to tell me about it on your blog – that’s fine, too.

    Point being is no matter what you say, do or tell me, I’m still not going to agree. With you or with Evan –

    I mostly agree with Scott. lol….

    Sometimes, people don’t agree. Nothing to be done about it. Takes a lot of energy to discuss it…

    If I don’t have a desired outcome (like talking through our issues last night with Lucy til we both find peace and common ground) I’m not that invested, and I’m sure not gonna put that much effort into something that will – imo – only “entrench” the other person.

    I hope you have a desired outcome that will result in you feeling good!


  399.  #399Lucy on April 15, 2011 at 10:38 am

    Ha! I totally get the whole Evan/Rusty thing now! Wow. Too complex to tell via my phone, maybe later. And I agree with the statement that Rusty is 360′ opposite Evan. 360. Yes. 😉 Mercedes, happy birthday – and I very much appreciate your attempts to help Evan understand CDing – I didn’t have the emotional stamina for that so I’m glad you did. I also feel encouraged seeing a smart woman w a “strong personality” having a successful love relationship – it Can be done! 🙂 <3 Lucy

  400.  #400Jacqueline on April 15, 2011 at 10:39 am

    I got some liquid b vitamins…and they taste so awful they stay in the frige…Hi, Ella! They are supposed to be great esp. if you don’t eat a lot of bread…that’s the vitamins that are in bread.

    Off to enjoy this fine day.

    SLV, I shall write to you as if you’re here, I decided!

    What’s that? Sweetie said what?! well, okay – can’t argue with a man that sweet. smile…

    And I suspect you’ve been keeping yourself busy learning all sorts of fascinating new things on the net – did you hulu?

    And well, top of the day to you!!


  401.  #401Jacqueline on April 15, 2011 at 10:42 am

    Oh, hello, Lucy…I agree I am smart and have a strong relationship….gets better every day. It can be done!

  402.  #402Jacqueline on April 15, 2011 at 10:44 am

    360 is the SAME…ummm…the opposite? would be 180. I agree that it’s 360, tho. Both telling me what I ought to do….lol…

  403.  #403Brenda on April 15, 2011 at 10:51 am

    Sweetmandm, Mel, Ella, and Daria,

    Thank you for your encouragement!

  404.  #404Violet on April 15, 2011 at 10:53 am


    I appreciate reading your comments. They are presented in a non-confrontational way. I feel like I’m not being bullied into doing things a certain way because of how the explanations came across.

    When Evan Marc Katz (or whatever his name is) made comments; I felt like I wanted to smack him upside the head! hahaha

    I’m like, ”There’s no way on God’s green earth I am going to take that tone from anyone!”

    I accept that his intentions may be pure. There’s an addage that goes, ‘It’s not what you say, but how you say it’.

    That addage certainly made sense in reference to how he came across.

    ~ Violet ~

  405.  #405Lily T. on April 15, 2011 at 10:55 am

    Hi Lucy. I’m glad you decided to stick around. 🙂

  406.  #406Brenda on April 15, 2011 at 10:56 am

    I want to meet Tyler Perry! I don’t know, but I think he’s single. 🙂

  407.  #407Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 11:06 am

    RE 403 Violet you are funny. Frankly speaking I believe it is also a reflection on the level of maturity or maybe immaturity. If it was my son I would definitely do that.

  408.  #408Mercedes on April 15, 2011 at 11:10 am

    Jacqueline: I’ll repeat in case you missed it:

    “Now will you please stop talking to me or about me? I’d really appreciate it.”

    If you must though, I would rather you not accuse me of doing things I didn’t do. Never told Evan anything even close to something like this:

    “to go straight to telling someone they weren’t qualified to be married ”

    Didn’t even know there were qualifications involved…

  409.  #409Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 11:11 am

    Jacqueline please forgive me this was too good not to share. I just love this woman’s way of expresssing herself.
    You may wonder why Freud, a man who dedicated his life to the study of human behavior was so enamored with cats. I imagine it was because he found them so difficult to “analyze.”

    When you get in touch with your inner cat she will give you a sense of mystery. This will be one of your most powerful and alluring traits that will help you get a man’s attention.

    The definition of mystery is “something that is difficult to understand, explain or identify.”

    Mystery implies an element of secretiveness, and when someone tells you they have a secret — don’t you just have to know what it is?

    What are some other “attracting” qualities of your inner cat?

    Cats are soft and graceful, they make it hard not to reach out and touch them. A cat’s eyes are strangely hypnotic, it makes it hard for you to look away.

    Cats survey the world as if they owned it. They seem relaxed and self-satisfied about whatever is going on around them.

    You don’t know what a cat is thinking, but it’s obvious that something is going on behind those eyes!

    Wouldn’t you love to and embody a cat’s sense of mystery? To have that kind of ease?

    It all comes down to being relaxed and comfortable within yourself; enjoying your thoughts — but always holding something back that is yours alone.

    As you express your inner cat’s allure and mystery you can’t help but draw a man’s interest.

    He will try to get you to reveal your secrets, and like any good cat, you will keep some of them to yourself.


    In the meantime don’t forget things can change in an instant, so don’t lose hope!

    Sending you love,


  410.  #410Mercedes on April 15, 2011 at 11:18 am

    Lucy (398) Thank you!!!! Actually, Evan doesn’t take anything out of me emotionally…I LOVE debate and have no issues calling someone out when they’re not being fair. I actually enjoy it very much. Would enjoy it more if HE had the stamina to respond but…oh well. LOL

    Yeah…J loves me just the way I am. And I love him back! 🙂 It CAN be done! And you can smile the entire time… YAY4 strong women! 🙂

    Much Love,

  411.  #411Lucy on April 15, 2011 at 11:20 am

    Jacqueline – 360′ – that’s why I winked and said I agree. Lol. They’re the same – so if you start at Evan and go in the opposite direction through 360′ you will get to Rusty, which will also be back to Evan again. Lol. Is that right or left brain thinking? – Seems like some of each – 🙂 A fun mental exercise anyway. Who needs crossword puzzles when you have this blog??? Haha!

  412.  #412tinque on April 15, 2011 at 11:21 am

    Angel Lady – I feel concern over the response you are receiving in re feeling messages. I’m feeling curious how you are wording them, for it’s possible that they are being voiced as veiled accusations, really common in the beginning. I don’t know if this is true, but your post struck me, so I’m asking. Then again a not so good man will not respond well.


  413.  #413Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 11:21 am

    I know of a man who says he likes debating with strong women because it stimulates him intellectually/mentally and keep him feeling young.

  414.  #414Mercedes on April 15, 2011 at 11:25 am

    FP: That’s why J likes it. He says it keeps him mentally strong because the debate includes a female perspective and intuition…something he doesn’t get from debate with men. We both laugh like crazy when one finally has to say “Ok. You got me there!” LOL

    Much Love,

  415.  #415Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 11:30 am

    Mercedes All I can say is “Oh for the joy of deeply surrendering into a relationship with a man or someone who so fully gets you”.

  416.  #416sweetmandm on April 15, 2011 at 11:31 am


    I Ditto the Tyler Perry. I love the characters (man characters he plays) in his movies! Ok, well I like Madea too, but I really like the strength of character he portrays pretty much always! 🙂 He is always a voice of wisdom to all around him, high in integrity, etc.


  417.  #417Mercedes on April 15, 2011 at 11:32 am

    FP: Yes! Yes!! YES!!!!

    Tinque has it too…different than J and I in some ways but the same connection on EVERY single level. Bliss!! Ahhhhh….


  418.  #418Lucy on April 15, 2011 at 11:33 am

    FW- thanks for your comments to and about me (yes, it seems Evan’s “play cool” is Rori’s “lean back” – different words, similar meaning. :)) Re: my comments you referenced, I feel proud of myself for doing such a good job making it about me and my authentic feelings and don’t wants. <3 Lucy

  419.  #419Jilly on April 15, 2011 at 11:33 am

    ok…ill have to go back through and catch up but i have to share!!! 🙂

    this was the BEST experience i’ve had with a man staying over and feeling good

    thanks to Elizabeth talking about it so matter-of-fact to me!!

    so this morning we were waking up and i just stayed calm and relaxed…i got up and made me some coffee and hotpilot some oatmeal 🙂 and we watched one of my work videos and i drank my coffee and he ate and then i matter of factly asked if he needed to use the rest room…and he needed to brush his teeth and while he was doing that i turned on the tv in my room and when he was done and gave him the remote and said i’m going to go get ready and i walked right into the bathroom….and the rest is history!!!!! 🙂 i lit a candle and did my girly routine and dressed in the bathroom and came out looking fresh and ready for a workout!!! yay me!!!

    and then we went to my workout (its called crossfit if anyone has heard about it…designed for military/police/firefighters) and he was very impressed and thought it was awesome and i feel emotional and teary eyed but this is what i’ve ALWAYS wanted!! someone who is into health and fitness and takes care of themselves and we can to physical things together…wow…it’s been an amazing day already…he went home and i’m doing my thing until later tonight when we go to dinner with his cousin and her husband 🙂

  420.  #420Lucy on April 15, 2011 at 11:41 am

    I don’t think I’ll try the no bra tool. Locked in my memory: 8th grade home ec teacher instructing us that our nipples should always be positioned in line w the halfway point btwn our elbow and shoulder, and our bras adjusted accordingly. I have been a stickler for that ever since – lol! – moral of story: be careful what you tell girls when they are awakening – they will take it very seriously for the rest of their lives. 🙂

  421.  #421Jacqueline on April 15, 2011 at 11:42 am

    La Femme…aka FW…aka FP!! I do indeed love it! I actually miss the posts too…like I said, it was a small concern that somehow became a larger issue.

    And you never did tell me if we should celebrate your name change??

    Lucy!! smart girl! you know you like complicated and I like simple…but I’d still like to hear your theorum. What’s up with Sliver?? any weekend stuff?

    And no, Mercedes I won’t quit talking about you as it relates to the “spew” it’s a free world and an open blog. And I still feel curious as to what did it take…to make you go from lightly bantering to saying…”sheesh! I respected you until that last comment. That was crazy weird. Do you tell her you write this stuff? You talk about how wonderful she is but she’s your WIFE and you talk about how she can’t communicate the way you can??? I thought you were just dating. You absolutely did NOT sound like a married man who cherishes your wife. You sound more like she’s lucky to be with you because you communicate so well.

    WOW! I’m totally surprised you are a married man. Totally. You really, really changed my view of you and of your advice here. It’s unfortunate …

    My advice: Listen when a bunch of women tell you that what we’re looking for from a man is to be cherished. Then ask your wife if she feels cherished knowing you don’t think she can communicate near as well as you do.

    Just a little too full of yourself for me.”

    Evan came here and expressed an opinion on dating…what he got back was an opinion on his deservedness to even BE married, and pity his poor wife.

    So I will always wonder if that’s how you “debate” with poor J and if he’s going to come here and tell us how much he loves it? unless you explain the jump…

    (but I might quit talking about it when it bores me – it still piques my curiousity…)

    And as Rori said, a simple apology goes a long way. It would feel good if you got the distinction I’m making and took those words to heart and to Evan!


  422.  #422Jacqueline on April 15, 2011 at 11:46 am

    Femininepower – I dream about my cat lately…he was solid white, last night I was in a store and they were selling yellow, magenta and sky blue circle cats…my favorite colors! And I still just wanted the cat I had. Long live the mighty Goose!! (no, my ex named him…noises he made when he saw birds out the window)!

  423.  #423Jilly on April 15, 2011 at 11:48 am

    Lilybelle @221…i was laughing when i wrote that to you…i’ve never said that before in my life but it just came to me at that moment and i was hoping you would get the humor!! lol i’m so glad you did 🙂

    FM@ 246..i like that!! if i can go with him around it will make my life a lot more comfortable…i’m still very discreet but what’s a girl to do? 🙂 it made things feel real to me

    Queenbee and Lucy…i prefer to be all ready and then see him…i like my privacy with getting ready and doing what i need to do 😉 if i was staying in a hotel room i would find a different bathroom lol…and its a good reminder but i try and keep some mystery and change in another room…then next step is the whole getting ready process in the morning time (shower, hair, makeup…)..hotpilot and i haven’t done that yet…(to be cont) 🙂

    LD @363…i love that too…i have now decided i want my own bathroom lol with who ever i marry…and he can have his own…thats genius!

  424.  #424Jacqueline on April 15, 2011 at 11:49 am

    Tinque – that was so insightful on the feeling messages. I’d love to hear you write more when you have time. And I hope Angel Lady stays and practices. If you get time, I’d love for you to write more about why a not so good man won’t respond well. And have a most excellent – probably very breezy day where you are?


  425.  #425Jacqueline on April 15, 2011 at 11:51 am

    Wow, Jilly!!! meeting the family – and hooray on the delicate balance of keeping the feminine mystery alive!!

    Feels FABULOUS!!!



  426.  #426Mercedes on April 15, 2011 at 11:51 am

    LOL!! That comment was not debate! That comment was opinion…MY opinion and I meant every single word of it so not possible to apologize authentically for it. When I debate it is about an issue. When I attack it is about someone treating another with disrespect and me not standing for it. That’s funny! Not debate, but FUNNY!!

    I think “poor J” is going to be just fine….HAHA!!!

  427.  #427Jilly on April 15, 2011 at 11:53 am

    Sorry…not FM lol not sure where that came from…apparently my typos/writing are still off..I meant FW/FP/Femmewoman 🙂

  428.  #428Lucy on April 15, 2011 at 11:53 am

    Mercedes – I am a natural debater too – and would definitely go at it with Evan and Rusty were I not in an emotionally vulnerable place relationship-wise. I hope I can borrow son’s PC later to write about this. My dad and I are both similar in many ways to E & R – complex realizations about this – dad and I have a history tho where I know he ultimately loves me, respects me, respects my intelligence, is strong enough to go the distance in debate, and apologizes when he hurts and disrespects me – and eventua

  429.  #429Mercedes on April 15, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Oh…and I didn’t say I pity his wife, but I do. I didn’t say he doesn’t deserve to be married…I said I’m surprised (or shocked or whatever) that he is. Everyone deserves to be married if that’s what they want, but I do agree with his own words about having the most patient wife on the planet. THAT has GOT to be true! 🙂

  430.  #430Jilly on April 15, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Thanks J!! 🙂

  431.  #431Simply Shannon on April 15, 2011 at 11:58 am

    Nikita: HI!!! What is up woman??? I feel surprised to hear about your relationship. Have you talked to him about it? I want the dets!!! Don’t mind me or my questions (really). I’m just being nosy. I miss you!!

  432.  #432Jacqueline on April 15, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    Poor J…sigh. Just my opinion. lol!

    So in your opinion you have the option of questioning the fitness of others to be in a relationship because it’s your opinion – what if it is hurtful to them? As Evan indicated it was, on facebook, more or less, with his horrified they’re attacking my marriage?

    what do you do to maintain that aura of feminine mystery and allure we all speak of here?

    Almost ready to quit having questions…

  433.  #433Lucy on April 15, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    eventually Listens enough to be able to see where he is wrong in his argument (sometimes it takes my mom saying “I think she might be right – listen to her for a minute.” 🙂 ) I don’t know E or R enough to know whether they are truly “good men” like my dad or more toxic, w the bad feelings I have gotten around them. My sisters actually perceive dad as toxic – but I relate to him differently than they do (I’m the middle sister and most similar to him).

  434.  #434Jilly on April 15, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    saying hi to SLV, Camile and Alonka and Boomer…hope everything is going well for you guys 🙂

  435.  #435tinque on April 15, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    “a not so good man won’t respond well”

    In a nutshell, he won’t care. People who don’t care, well…don’t care. Yes it’s another form of insecurity, but I would venture to say most if not all here don’t want to spend the time on this kind of person healing in their presence. If this kind of person is even open to healing.


  436.  #436Mercedes on April 15, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    I never said or indicated Evan was unfit to be in a relationship either. Never. Said I was shocked and had no idea. I’m still shocked. I know now that he is, but I’m still shocked. Never heard a married man talk that way about his wife (and all other women he’s dated before). But not once did I question whether or not he is fit to be in a relationship. My shock is that a woman would put up with it.

    I’m going to use the “poor J” thing all night! LOL Love it!!!

  437.  #437Mercedes on April 15, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    Just sent J a text saying “Jacqueline feels sorry for you.” Immediately got back “well “Howard” thinks you deserve an award for being with me”.


  438.  #438T-Girl on April 15, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    LOL Lucy, I will forever be checking now to see if my nipples are in line where they should be 🙂

  439.  #439Lucy on April 15, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    Jacqueline – what theorem?

  440.  #440Mercedes on April 15, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    Lucy: LOVE this! 🙂

    “(sometimes it takes my mom saying “I think she might be right – listen to her for a minute.” ) “

  441.  #441Jilly on April 15, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    Tinque i agree with Jacqueline about how insightful that was of you to see what may not be working…nice work 🙂 and i agree with post 434 too 🙂

  442.  #442Jacqueline on April 15, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Poor J could totally work with it, I’m sure…heee

    But…again – what if it HURTS her? What if she thinks Evan is the cat’s meow?? Which I’d say she does given the photos on facebook….

    In other words, when is blunt opinion all good if it results in someone FEELING – whether to the letter or by the law you said it, it was implied, and even if you wouldn’t go that far…he took it that way –
    like you’re saying they’re not fit. And they feel bad, and attacked…

    when is it too much? When does what your words will do to someone outweigh the joy in getting to have an opinion?

    I’ve decided words are most powerful and for me, I’m going to use them more carefully, thus the curiosity…

    Happy J

  443.  #443Lily T. on April 15, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    The things EMK wrote on Facebook about this blog and it’s readership I found very derogatory and inflamatory. I felt angry. Don’t see any apology forthcoming from EMK re: that.

  444.  #444tinque on April 15, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    where did my picture go? 🙁

  445.  #445Jacqueline on April 15, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    Lucy – The what are men thinking when they’re advising us theorum and when is it good to take their advice vs when is it good to just let em ramble vs how to we indicate we deserve and demand respect vs who cares it’s just an opinion …..debate??

    I LOVE the nips theorum!! I have a negative opinion when actresses at red carpet awards have theirs down by their elbows~! I really like it that I got such a good pair…I can dang near pull em up to my ears with the right brassiere…I shall file that tidbit away and wish I’d of heard it earlier.

    flashes everyone…and I’m outta here for now sirens, lovers, dahlings and hornies…

  446.  #446Lucy on April 15, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    I will add that it seems maybe Rori Does know Evan enough to know he is a “good man” rather than toxic. At this point tho I am experiencing him the way my sisters do my dad. So now I totally get how my sisters feel! And I can see that it would be good if dad could be more consistently kind and my sisters could trust his heart more – parallel to what I am now thinking about the Evan sitch. Of course we can only change ourselves and maybe I can try to trust him a bit,but it would be cool if he could change 2.

  447.  #447Jacqueline on April 15, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    Hi, Lilly…EMK isn’t here practising Rori’s tools – so, for me, her advice isn’t for him. We are. That’s my theorum anyway.

  448.  #448Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    RE 446 Have to say that is very insightful. I also remember CCarter’s how you are in a relationship is how you will be in “the” relationship.

  449.  #449Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    RE 445 Lucy for me that references the vibe that we give off and the fact that emotions are contagious. Thre are also cases where a man is toxic with one woman but isn’t with another. It, in my mind, is a function of what each person brings to the relationship, including the man’s frame of reference. I do not have Rori’s Toxic Men program but now I really wonder if we can bring out the toxicity in a man, maybe a level of toxicity that he doesn’t even know he has?

  450.  #450Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    I keep going back to Rori’s reference that when we are triggered it is not about the man.

  451.  #451Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    From Rori

    “Just because a man triggers you doesn’t mean it’s about him.”

  452.  #452Mercedes on April 15, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    “I’ve decided words are most powerful and for me, I’m going to use them more carefully, thus the curiosity…” EXCELLENT!!!

    I’m going to stay just the way I am…

    And when EMK stops hurting people, I’m sure my voice will soften where he is concerned too. I can’t help how he “takes it”…all I can control is what I actually say and I in no way think nor did I say or even imply that he or anyone else shouldn’t be married…and he never told me he thought I said he shouldn’t be married.

    Maybe he needs to come to me if I’ve hurt him instead of sending you on his behalf?

    Then we can clear it up and I’ll let him know that I DO think he is fit to be in a relationship and I am surprised he is. No additional implications.

    But…he’s never asked me what I meant or told me he was hurt or said he heard my words as saying he’s not fit to be married. So….I can’t take responsibility for the fact that all of that stuff is in his head. He should be strong enough to talk to me about it if he’s hurting over it. Just as I would not ask him to take responsibility for my feelings, I can’t take responsibility for his. Next time he tells you I’ve hurt him though, I would appreciate if you would ask him to come to me himself so you don’t have to be our go-between.

    I do hope he learns to be more respectful to women though because then I wouldn’t want to defend them. I actually admire his wife and am surprised she can put up with it. I would absolutely LOVE to talk to her and see what she’s like. Would LOVE it!

    Lily T.: I never looked him up on facebook at all, but yeah…his blog: “The things EMK wrote on Facebook about this blog and it’s readership I found very derogatory and inflamatory. I felt angry. Don’t see any apology forthcoming from EMK re: that.” He did the same thing on his blog. The story about Rori’s tool was very, very derogatory…not to mention incorrect.

    And even the fact that he has to have rules about what his followers are not allowed to say to him and about his work tells you it’s not just a few people who feel this way. I like how Rori actually encourages us to say whatever we want…just direct it at her and not at other bloggers. She gives the impression she can take it. Evan gives the impression he can’t so he’ll delete it instead (and tell Jacqueline how much he’s hurting so she can spread the word). Rori is amazing!

  453.  #453Mercedes on April 15, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    tinque: Find your picture!!! It’s BEAUTIFUL and I miss it already!!!

  454.  #454Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    tinques picture is in 411

  455.  #455tinque on April 15, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    Can anyone help? I checked gravatar, and nothing has changed there; all is set up as it was and as it needs to be. I’m baffled.


  456.  #456tinque on April 15, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Oh there I am. I’m baaaaaack. hah


  457.  #457Mercedes on April 15, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Whoever stole it put it back!!!! YAY!!!!

  458.  #458Brenda on April 15, 2011 at 12:37 pm


    RE: #415 – I read an article about Tyler Perry in an Oprah magazine and I was extremely impressed with his morals, courage, and strength to keep trying in the midst of failure and poverty.

  459.  #459Lily T. on April 15, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    Yes, the more I read here, the more amazing I find Rori. 🙂

  460.  #460Jilly on April 15, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    Tinque i can see your picture

  461.  #461Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    Boomer it is the end of the week now and I do hope you are feeling better over the last few days.

  462.  #462Lucy on April 15, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    434 Tinque. I so appreciate the simple clarity of what you wrote there. That is a very helpful “nutshell.” 🙂 Thank you! <3

  463.  #463Lilybelle on April 15, 2011 at 12:42 pm


    Really, where are you?


  464.  #464Mercedes on April 15, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    I fogot to answer this part of Jacqueline’s question:

    “what do you do to maintain that aura of feminine mystery and allure we all speak of here?”

    I do absolutely NOTHING to “allure” men who are disrespectful and I have zero need for “mystery” with them either.

  465.  #465T-Girl on April 15, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    Whatever is happening in my CD world I like it. I had a spontaneous 1st meeting last night and another tonight, and now someone else just e-mailed me to see what I am doing this weekend! Plus, I have been getting a few e-mails each day from the sites I am on. Spring is in the air?

  466.  #466Lucy on April 15, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    I feel bad hearing about Evan’s fb activities (which I haven’t read first-hand). I feel judgmental bc it seems like “army building” to me. I also feel sad bc it seems like he is embellishing to get sympathy. I feel guilty bc it seems I am judging him with these thoughts. If anyone wants to offer a non-judging alternative for how I could express these yucky feelings, I am open to hearing it so I can learn. Evan, sorry for judging you like this – I am trying to learn to balance acceptance with boundaries.

  467.  #467Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    RE 463 I had a good laugh. I remember hearing Rori in an interview with CCarter say “some men are better than others”.

  468.  #468Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    RE 465 Lucy are they feelings or are they thoughts? You seem to mix both.

  469.  #469Mercedes on April 15, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    Lucy: 465. I’m the same way. And I have not read his facebook comments either. His other comments are what I base my judgements off of and so much of what you say your judgements are (“army building” and embellishing to get sympathy) are shared by me….and I have a few additional ones of my own…

  470.  #470Lucy on April 15, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    442. Lily. I’m too afraid to read his fb. 🙁 My dad is blessed that he has my strong and loving mom to nudge him when he goes too far. They are better people for having each other.

  471.  #471Jilly on April 15, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    yay T-Girl..i feel so happy for you!! so you can put GGAAB? on your horse and keep riding! 🙂

  472.  #472Lucy on April 15, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    Jacqueline 444. I think the short answer is the one Daria gave me last night – trust and follow our intuition. <3

  473.  #473Lily T. on April 15, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    I don’t know Lucy. I lost alot of respect for EMK reading him trash this blog on FB. And some more reading his slanted version of CD on his own blog to solicit validation for himself. And I have been a reader of his blog for 3+ years.

    Writing about it here and realizing I wasn’t the only one having negative feelings about his writing/actions has helped me let go of some of the bad feelings. He has a new topic up I agree with which is helpful.

    I believe we will all get past/get over the things he wrote (moreso the way he wrote them), after a bit – it’s only been a week after all. This kind of ish dies out when it becomes boring to read again and again. Hold the faith. 😉

  474.  #474Jilly on April 15, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    FP @447….is that in CC’s ebook?or in Casual to Committed? i should review Casual to Committed like you suggested earlier

  475.  #475Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    Think I heard it in FCTC and he writes it in his free emails.

  476.  #476Lucy on April 15, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    447 FW. Agreed. And there is no way I would stand there and take it if a love interest talked to me that way.

  477.  #477Lily T. on April 15, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    Lucy, you don’t have to like, understand, or non-judge EMK. You have the tool to walk away. Don’t read his FB. Don’t go to his blog. Scroll through anything he posts here. In other words, you don’t need to make him so important in your head.

    I’m sure HE is fine.

  478.  #478Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    Lucy trust me I am with you there. It’s just that I feel we are focussed there rather than on “us” is what my worry is. Though the trigger is there I am getting to a place where I feel I can decide how I respond to the trigger or even if I should bother to respond or react.

  479.  #479sweetmandm on April 15, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    Brenda RE 457-

    Those qualities are so attractive to me and he so writes those into his characters roles.
    Set totally aside the fact that he is wealthy and talented and good looking 🙂 …….those qualities alone…..hemmm……

    Would it not be awesome if all of the guys that had those qualities had the kind of exposure that Tyler does… would be sooo much easier to find them…. (leaning back of course) we would just more easily know where they are, so as to position ourselves around them. Hehe! 😉 Yumm…

  480.  #480Lilybelle on April 15, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    470: Me too, T-Girl

  481.  #481Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    Also you know how sometimes bad publicity brings attention and sometimes money to people in pop culture? I am wondering if that discussion could bring some of his clients here and would they find that Rori’s advice is spot on as opposed to his and how they feel over there. I also wonder if the discussion would epitomize the feminine grace that we are learning we should exude? I also wonder if they would find us as good examples of what is taught here? Just wondering……..

  482.  #482Mel on April 15, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    I just got word that the company has contacted 2 of the references I gave them… EEK! The wait is excruciating!

    I’m still looking around for other jobs to apply to though. I don’t want to put all of my eggs in one basket.

  483.  #483Violet on April 15, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    I notice that I’ve reiterated comments previously made. I realize how that can come across as irritating. It’s like, ‘okay, I think we get the poing now!’ hahaha

    Thank you for responding to the crux of what I said rather than the amount of times I said it.

  484.  #484Lucy on April 15, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    FW 448. I am also very curious about Rori’s Toxic Men program. My ex-h told me last wk that he is exploring numerology and ran some charts – he said the charts revealed him as Toxic to me and each one of our kids!!! And it showed that there was great compatibility with every other combination among the kids – with each other and with me. Fascinating and totally in line with our experience!

  485.  #485Lily T. on April 15, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    Good point FP. I’ll bet there are ALOT of women who read EMK’s blog and don’t like being told they should wait 2-3 yrs. for a man to make up his mind to marry them. We might see some new posters interesting in learning “other ways” to a relationship. 😉

  486.  #486Femininepower on April 15, 2011 at 1