How To Tell If He’s “The One”…From Date One!

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Here’s a great guest post from my friend and soon-to-be Monthly Interview Lauren Francis – I’m just posting it here exactly as she sent it (you’ll love her book, and she’s so much fun!)

How To Tell If He’s “The One”…From Date One!

by Lauren Francis

Wouldn’t it be great if your dates came with little warning stickers?

Well, you’re in luck, because they actually do. You just need to know how to spot little clues that say: “I’m unavailable,” “This is only a romp,” and “I’ll probably spill red wine on your brand new duvet.”

So, if you’re tired of your online dates deliberately mislabeling the merchandise, then those pesky three little words:

“Wants marriage: Definitely.”

…are often being taken at face value. In fact, they can often make you feel totally misled. So, before you fall under the spell of your dates gorgeous blue eyes, you’ll want to make sure that they really meant what you read! That’s why it’s so important to know how to do a little romantic fact checking, before the check comes on date one!

The following technique will save you days, weeks, and possibly years of wasted time and romantic disappointment. I call it the “Heartache Prevention Question.”

Step One: Get clear about your own romantic goals. (Do you want marriage and family, or are you just up for some fun? And own it!)

Step Two: When you meet your date for a drink, ask them the Heartache Prevention Question, “So Clark, do you still believe in The Dream?” (If he asks what The Dream is, it’s whatever your romantic goals are!)

Step Three: Smile!

Step Four: Pay close attention. Your date will start talking a blue streak, and you’ll want to listen carefully to their response. It’ll be like slipping them verbal truth serum, and they’ll easily give up highly sensitive emotional intel.

At this point, the inexperienced dater will ask me anxiously, “Won’t this just scare them away?” You’ll soon discover that it’s quite the opposite. In truth, first dates are usually the only time that you can ask such a loaded question without it totally backfiring, because you can’t take this info personally…yet.

Now, for all of you women who’ve only been privy to this type of soul-bearing honesty from men during tearful breakups, I promise that you’ll be totally stunned.

Bungling this opportunity usually only occurs when you ask men “what they’re looking for,” or give them a laundry list about what you want. This is a mistake, and will just put them on the defensive, or into serious performance mode.

But when you ask them what they “believe,” and then cheerfully go on listening to them (Why not? It’s only your problem if you continue to date him!), he won’t feel pressured to modify his answers to fit your romantic agenda. And you will be rewarded with The Truth!

When you ask them the Heartache Prevention Question, men will share exactly what they believe about marriage, their financial stability, and if they ’re adamantly opposed to the state of matrimony itself! They’ll even divulge the status of prior relationships that might impact your courtship, angry exes, and often (stupidly) confess about their current roster of out-of-town lovers as well. I am so not kidding.

TIP: Listen very carefully about how they talk about their exes, and be on the lookout for any past “relationship theories.”

For example, they might tell you that “love doesn’t really exist,” or, that all of their relationships “end up the same way…in court!”

It’s what they believe to be true about relationships, and it isn’t going to change. This is way more effective than calling the psychic network, because you ’re getting a little preview about how he’ll probably be talking about you, right after you break up.

Most people simply repeat their mating patterns over and over again with somebody new, and that could mean you! Bad habits are hard to break, and often steer romantic relationships in the same direction…(south.) This will be hard to reprogram without divine intervention— or intense therapy! Or a hard smack on the noggin.

For example, he might lean in and say: “I’ d like to get married again someday. But right now, I’m just getting back out there.” (Code for: I’m just up for some fun! And if you want to get married anytime soon, you better RUN.)

Dating Like an International Spy

If you’ve followed my instructions, you might notice that your conversation has created a pleasant side effect. Your date will soon become surprisingly relaxed, and even ~gasp~ vulnerable.

Warning: Resist the urge to share your romantic war stories too, or the entire date will turn into one big therapy session. Instead, practice active listening, and just nod your head sympathetically, and say:


“Hmmm…I get it.”

“Wow, you must be really strong to have survived that.”

“That must have been soooo difficult.”

“You seem so well adjusted. Gone to therapy for that?”

“Waiter, check please!”

But, if you discover his romantic status checks out, then you can happily bid him adieu…

…until date two!


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  1.  #1Femininewoman on September 10, 2012 at 7:03 am

    Wow Lauren Frances

  2.  #2Femininewoman on September 10, 2012 at 7:07 am

    I loved her book. She compares men to birds. I thought Rori didn’t like her style because she talks about “manhandling” and I have an interview where I was left with the impression that Rori thinks it is disrespectful.

  3.  #3Heart on September 10, 2012 at 7:27 am

    …la la la …

  4.  #4Femininewoman on September 10, 2012 at 7:32 am

    When you ask them the Heartache Prevention Question, men will share exactly what they believe about marriage – She is the one who encourages asking “so why aren’t you married yet” from date one.

  5.  #5Calypso on September 10, 2012 at 7:33 am

    I find this to be very true – first dates are the best time to get the info you want – like she said, it’s your chance to ask questions before you can possibly take the answer personally!

  6.  #6Heart on September 10, 2012 at 7:35 am

    Sirens – I don’t want to be married….

  7.  #7MissStix on September 10, 2012 at 7:36 am

    I like this! But it is obviously not for me (coming up on two years with G), not needing a ring.

    It’s funny…G and I have discussed kids more than marriage. We have talked about kids a lot in the last couple weeks.

    Most recently he made a comment about how busy his bro and sis in-law are. He said how awesome it would gbe to be busy all the time like that. I said:

    “well…they’re busy cuz they have a couple of kids!”

    He said:


    What does that mean?!?! lol How do I get a read on this stuff without full on charging forward?

    “What the hell do you mean by that??? You wanna knock me up or what?”


  8.  #8Heart on September 10, 2012 at 7:37 am

    Calypso – I shouldnt be encouraging you But GH (GM?) soubds Hawt!

  9.  #9MissStix on September 10, 2012 at 7:37 am


    Welcome to the club!

    Admission will cost you one ring, but you do not have to guve up a lifetime of love.

  10.  #10Heart on September 10, 2012 at 7:38 am

    I want a committed long term relationship …but don’t know if I want to be married…what do u all think? Is that fear of intimacy?

  11.  #11Tereana on September 10, 2012 at 7:39 am

    Nice article! Glad I happened on this one this morning. Great way to start the week 🙂

  12.  #12Calypso on September 10, 2012 at 7:40 am

    FW – From previous post. I think you are absolutely right. He thinks he has me now – no need to rouse himself to walk me out the door. We were supposed to take my youngest soin and one of his friends shooting on saturday, but JC backed out because it was supposed to rain, even though i expressed how important it was to me – my son is leaving next weekend to go to Boot Camp.

    JC said we would figure out how to work it in later, but I doubt we will. He asked me if I wanted to get together later, but he didn’t make deffinate plans. he then called me a couple of hours later and asked if I “Still wanted to come over . . .” My radar went off . . . I asked him what he wanted to do and he said he had no idea…. sure . . . he wanted to get naked –

    We agreed that he would call me when he was done helping his mom, but I texted him an hour later and told him I was feeling overwhelmed with getting my oldest son ready to get on a plane for a work trip the next morning adn having our last family meal with all 3 of my sons together. He responded with “ok” . . .


    I need to ramp up my degree of difficulty. I knew it was too soon to sleep with JC, but I did it for me – I did it to keep me from running back to GM every chance I get. I am not looking for marriage right now. I’m looking for a playmate and someone to help me stop chasing GM. Still – JC is going to have to step up his game. He asked me to lunch tomorrow – we will see how that goes – it better not be at his house – lol

  13.  #13Heart on September 10, 2012 at 7:40 am

    #7 – Miss Stix – maybe he does…
    Marriage sounds so stiffling…Ic

  14.  #14Tereana on September 10, 2012 at 7:43 am

    @Heart – not necessarily. A lot of people decide that they want to stay with their partners without going through the process of “getting married.” Commitment can be totally separate from marriage. Marriage is one way to publicly announce a commitment. But it’s not the only way. And if you are committed to each other, some people don’t need that “public” element. They just go for it. And from what I’ve seen, those can be some of the most solid relationships out there….

  15.  #15Femininewoman on September 10, 2012 at 7:46 am

    Calypso it might be the sons that’s his issue. Your talking about them might have him unconsciously wondering if he wants to be anybody’s daddy. I like what you said about plaything though so if I were you he would have to come to my house. Going to him is making things too easy for him. Though with the boys I can appreciate why it might be more convenient.

  16.  #16Femininewoman on September 10, 2012 at 7:47 am

    Heart you get to choose what you want

  17.  #17Heart on September 10, 2012 at 7:48 am

    #14 – Tereana – thanks for writing that
    Thanks Miss Stix as well.

    I feel so good to write that….wow…I’m a little teary eyed right now.

  18.  #18Tereana on September 10, 2012 at 7:52 am

    Okay, well, here is my typically long comment/update. Get ready for it! : )

    Things have been going pretty well with trial-bf. he is reeeeally into the relationship thing. It’s good, but in a way, it almost makes me wish it was a little bit less. Lol. And even though you could say there are some “fem” qualities there, he is definitely a guy. He likes to give me things. He likes to plan. He likes to drive. He likes to fix. He’s a guy.

    This past weekend, we were driving and stopped in a cute town for dinner. He did a u-turn right into a parking spot, and I said, “Nice turn!” He responded with: “I’m a maaaaan.” Lol. It made me laugh 😀

    Still not sure about everything, partly because I’m not sure about the way he kisses. Not sure where to go with this or what to say. I haven’t wanted to say anything yet, because it’s so soon, and any comment about the way a guy “is” can really get personal for them, where they feel that you don’t like “them.” Whereas I just don’t always like his kissing style. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don’t.

    Oh, and he wished me a happy week-iversary. I thought that was cute, and I just laughed. He says he hopes he can wish me a happy one month, and more. and I am just keeping my eyes open to see how it goes….

  19.  #19Tereana on September 10, 2012 at 7:53 am

    Awww, Heart. That’s great! It always feels good to express your truth <3

  20.  #20MissStix on September 10, 2012 at 7:54 am


    I don’t know your reasons, so I couldn’t say if it is fear, or just a decision you made.

    I struggled with this recently…I feared I did not want to get married out of fear. I thought I SHOULD want to get married, and I HAD to work through the fear to get there. However, when I finally realized there was nothing to fear I still didn’t have any desire to have a wedding or be married.

    I did figure out that I COULD get married if it was important to the man I love. I just don’t need to…

    Do some soul searching and be 100% honest with yourself. You will find your answers.

  21.  #21Tereana on September 10, 2012 at 8:12 am

    So, okay, my comment wasn’t *that* long. I’m breaking it into two parts. Here’s part two:

    Part two is about Vman. Like I said, he’s been texting me like crazy since about 2 months ago. (almost 3 thousand texts since July!) And it got to be more and more, before and during a trip he just took out of town to go see a friend’s wedding. The texts have gotten very sexual at times, but I always back off when it gets to feel too much for me, and he respects that.

    Last week, I was on my way to work, and feeling stressed about it. He sensed it and asked if there was anything he could do. I told him, and he came back with the most amazing comment to cheer me up. It really made me happy. In fact, it made the whole rest of my day better. It was awesome. :- ) and later I told him so, and he said he felt “honored.”

    Well, I know that I said I wasn’t going to go on actual dates while “trial dating” this guy (who is very cute and sweet, by the way, and I don’t want to do anything to hurt him, or get in the way of a good relationship – if it is a good relationship. Plus, he’s teaching me his home language, which is fun : ). BUT, Vman said he wanted to see me. He asked when I was free, and we made plans to have dinner last night. He picked me up from work, and it all felt very natural and easy.

    Later, he dropped me off at home, and came in and chatted for a bit. He just seemed to be enjoying talking to me, but he was really good about not making a move on me at all. I did tell him that I’ve been seeing this other guy, so he knows.

    Well, early this morning, I woke up, and was thinking about how friendly it all felt. It seemed to me that there was less “chemistry” – less “spark.” Like it wasn’t really a “relationship” thing. Just a nice, dorky guy who likes talking to me. But then I went back to sleep and I had this very sexy dream about him.


    So I don’t know what that means.

    My best assessment is that anything with Vman is just about sex. He had a chance to prove to me before that he was the guy for me. And he admitted to me last night that he got “scared” because of past experiences. But it really doesn’t matter the reason. He left me when I needed him the most to stay. And he didn’t. If he was an idiot and let me go, that’s not my problem.

    This guy that I am “seeing” right now – trial-bf – he didn’t make that choice. He saw me in a bad mood, and he decided to stay with me anyway (after only knowing me for a few days!!) He’s paid attention to what I’ve told him about my needs, and he’s responded to them. He is really doing his best to take good care of me. And he is very clear that it is not about sex, and he is not pushing for that (even though he talks about it, and I know that he is interested. But that’s different from “pushing.”)

    So, as a compare and contrast sort of thing, I can clearly see how there is still a lot of “chemistry” and attraction between me and Vman. But that doesn’t mean you can build a relationship on that. On the other hand, Vman has intimated about other levels of interest – maybe even beyond sex. But I think he’s a bit guarded about that, or something.

    Anyway, we’ll see.

    I am not married to anyone yet. As Rori says, we not “committed” until we get “the ring” (if the ring is what we want, obviously). Or, we’re not committed until we’re committed, and he gets to commit first.

    It’s amazing how committed TBF is. And it feels very natural. It might prove to be too much. But we’ll see. I think it’s scary for me. But I am just letting myself go with what feels good. And try to keep believing in myself. He really does seem to support me. And I know I need someone like that. He might just prove to be the perfect guy for me, even though I still barely know him. But he is so eager to share himself with me that it’s amazing.

    Okay, I am going to stop gushing about it all now.

    I just wanted to share some of this with you all, and reassure you that I am not jumping into anything with both feet. I want to stay realistic, and know that there are many good guys out there, and many good options for me. And ultimately, the goal is to end up with whatever is best FOR ME. I believe that that is possible, and I believe that it will be the case.

    I feel very loved and taken care of 🙂 Hooray!

  22.  #22Starla on September 10, 2012 at 8:36 am

    I actually don’t like this article.

    I believe that plenty of men think they’ll never want to marry or just don’t care too much about it or think they’re not ready for it, and then they meet the right girl and it all changes.

    And actually, I feel a little uneasy about guys who are marriage-minded. Because you can fall into their trap of “good enough” and not “she’s the one,” as they’re so determined to settle down.

  23.  #23Starla on September 10, 2012 at 8:38 am

    22 continued —

    I think this is why circular dating is so important. But if you’re a serial monogamist, then yeah, you should probably ask these questions.

    Otherwise you can just spend time together and see where it goes.

  24.  #24Heart on September 10, 2012 at 8:38 am

    #20 – Thanks Miss Stix

  25.  #25Calypso on September 10, 2012 at 8:46 am

    Heart – GM is so freaking Hot it kills me . . . 6’6″, all lean muscle and now this tatoo on his back – I’m not usually into tatoos, but on him it looks sooooo good. He makes me whimper . . . lol

    FW – my sons are all grown – 18, 20 and 22. I don’t need a daddy for them, but he offered to take us shooting and my 18 year old was thrilled – now it won’t happen because of a chance of rain that never even happened. There is only one weekend left before he goes away for 3 months of bootcamp.

    JC has been to my house, but I’m not going to have sex with him there until we have been in a relationship for a long time. My sons won’t be shocked to have a man stay over, but I’m not going to rub it in their face or do it too soon. GM is the only one who ever stayed and even he always made it a point to leave before the boys got up.

    I’m just going to lean back and when JC wants to do something fun or nice for me, I’ll be happy to participate – sex at his house can be part of it, but not everything. meanwhile, maybe GM will step up or maybe I will slowly start to heal without him. I am so darn proud of myself for not taking the texting between us too far – i wanted to ask him when i could run my hands down his back and feel that new tatoo . . . whew! I was good . . .

    GM’s first text to me was to ask how many tatoos someone can have before they are considered tacky. I said it depended on the someone and asked how many he had now – he said “more than 2”

    After he sent me the pics and I stopped drooling . . . I told him he looked more “Bada$$” than “Tacky” and he said, “Thanks” and I let it go at that. I was busy cooking dinner for the boys (last one as a family for 3 months), so it was easy to not keep going, but yesterday was torture – I wanted to see him so bad. Sunday evenings I sometimes drive to his town and we go have drinks at a bar where our friends hang out – i could have invited myself and teased him about wanting to touch the tatoo, but i didn’t. yet . . .

  26.  #26Emoticon on September 10, 2012 at 8:54 am

    wow, must try

  27.  #27Annie on September 10, 2012 at 8:59 am

    “TIP: Listen very carefully about how they talk about their exes, and be on the lookout for any past “relationship theories.”

    For example, they might tell you that “love doesn’t really exist,” or, that all of their relationships “end up the same way…in court!”

    It’s what they believe to be true about relationships, and it isn’t going to change. This is way more effective than calling the psychic network, because you ’re getting a little preview about how he’ll probably be talking about you, right after you break up.

    Most people simply repeat their mating patterns over and over again with somebody new, and that could mean you! Bad habits are hard to break, and often steer romantic relationships in the same direction…(south.) This will be hard to reprogram without divine intervention— or intense therapy! Or a hard smack on the noggin.

    For example, he might lean in and say: “I’ d like to get married again someday. But right now, I’m just getting back out there.” (Code for: I’m just up for some fun! And if you want to get married anytime soon, you better RUN.)”

    Absolutely. I now always listen to how they describe their last girlfriend wife. This is where they are at!!!!!!!
    And remember Rori telling me to get my energy away from any man that called his ex or any woman a Bitch.

    My radar is now well and truly switched on.

  28.  #28Femininewoman on September 10, 2012 at 9:00 am

    Lauren authored Dating, Mating, and Manhandling – The Ornithological Guide to Men (Crown 2006).

  29.  #29Annie on September 10, 2012 at 9:04 am

    “TIP: Listen very carefully about how they talk about their exes, and be on the lookout for any past “relationship theories.”

    For example, they might tell you that “love doesn’t really exist,” or, that all of their relationships “end up the same way…in court!”

    It’s what they believe to be true about relationships, and it isn’t going to change. This is way more effective than calling the psychic network, because you ’re getting a little preview about how he’ll probably be talking about you, right after you break up.

    Most people simply repeat their mating patterns over and over again with somebody new, and that could mean you! Bad habits are hard to break, and often steer romantic relationships in the same direction…(south.) This will be hard to reprogram without divine intervention— or intense therapy! Or a hard smack on the noggin.

    For example, he might lean in and say: “I’ d like to get married again someday. But right now, I’m just getting back out there.” (Code for: I’m just up for some fun! And if you want to get married anytime soon, you better RUN.)”

    Absolutely. I now always listen to how they describe their last girlfriend wife. This is where they are at!!!!!!!
    And remember Rori telling me to get my energy away from any man that called his ex or any woman a B888ch. RUNNNNNN Or any other judgmental or derogatory language.

    My radar is now well and truly switched on.

  30.  #30MissStix on September 10, 2012 at 9:05 am

    I am making a new promise to myself and writing it down often helps me stick to it.

    I feel a happy, eager, anxious buzz in my upper belly 🙂

    I have fallen off track a bit with my photography practice. I have forgotten some of what I learned when I dove in deep a few months ago. I am promising myself to do a project that will last to the end of this year.

    I am calling it “One a day”.

    I will start a blog, and I will have one worthy shot to post every day. I will post 7 shots every sunday of differing techniques and I will write a little about how I achieved each exposure, and how I was feeling the day I took it.

    I have 3 specific classes I want to take at Emily Carr. When those classes conclude I will begin to build my professional portfolio by doing free shoots. Once I have a substantial portfolio (aim- jan 2014) I will begin to build my website and start doing professional freelance location work. When I have made enough money doing location work (aim- jan 2016) I will open my studio. By then I hope to be fully immeresed in working solely as a photographer. I will continue working on location but I will also have my studio to do portraiture, and use as my office. Once I am established and have collected the right equipment I also have an idea where I can print, and even do post processing of photos for amateurs.

    I am stoked to take action. I feel energetically excited and I will post a link once I have my blog up and running 😀

  31.  #31Starla on September 10, 2012 at 9:11 am

    Yikes, I feel so gross around men who refer to their exes as psychos or anything derogatory before I know them very well.. I just think “hmm well you attracted/picked her…”

  32.  #32MissStix on September 10, 2012 at 9:14 am

    I need to talk to my cuz about this because she makes these incredible books with pictures. She does it as a hobby using vacations as the subject matter but I know this has endless possibilities! Hers are like no other I have ever seen, and I know it could be a huge hit!

    People can bring in their photos from vacation/childbirth/graduation…Whatever! I can process the photos to make them look professional, she can put the book together and together we could make a gorgeous keepsake for people. Hiring a pro photog not necessary 🙂

  33.  #33Memulo on September 10, 2012 at 9:20 am

    He texted that he fell asleep once he got home and took care if eveythibg. He says he thought I already ate. I am not responding to this

  34.  #34Starla on September 10, 2012 at 9:29 am

    hey ladies, I have a question and could use your advice

    WarriorCD is going on a striiict diet, and he makes a lot of comments throughout the day via text/chat about how rough it is. What is the best way to be supportive of him (verbally) as a feminine creature?

  35.  #35Starbright on September 10, 2012 at 9:29 am

    Amateur photography is really big right now with cameras so available to everyone and many phones having decent cameras…seems to be less want for purchasing professional photography…and/or the prices are expected to be very inexpensive….

    One a day photo blogs are fun and a great challenge to be photographing daily…Keeping the creative juices moving.

    I would love to see your blog Miss Styx when you get it up!!!

  36.  #36Sunflower on September 10, 2012 at 9:32 am

    back from a lovely date, feeling all smiley, and wondering if he is “the one”.:). We will see. ..

    Said he wants to build a realtionship with friendship as a foundation…hmm…maybe I want to try that, a switch from being too chemistry focussed…;)

  37.  #37Starbright on September 10, 2012 at 9:32 am


    I would think an honest feeling message would be quite appropriate rather than game playing…

    Aw, that feels bad to me that you thought I had already eaten.

  38.  #38MissStix on September 10, 2012 at 9:33 am

    Annie, Starla-Agreed!

    However, context is everything…

    G called his ex “a bit of a d0uche” once. But it did not bother me at all. He had just finished explaining to me a traumatic event in their 5 year relationship. He explained it calmly, and fairly.

    At a party at their house he lost track of her because he was DJing the party. So he went to look for her and found her outside coming out of the bushes doing up her pants. She said the bathroom was occupied so she was taking a pee and she kind of grabbed him and started to pull him to go back inside, but she wasn’t quick enough and a few seconds later out of the same bushes came a guy. A guy he knew she had sex with before they met. So when he asked “what the f@ck is going on?” she started to cry. He told her to stop crying and tell him (again) “What the f@ck is going on?”. She told him he was being abusive…I’m certain he was yelling…and refused to talk to him.

    After he concluded the story he said with the wave of his hand “Ahh whatever. She was a bit of a d0uche.”

    Considering the story he told it didn’t bother me that he said that. He has never said anything else along those lines when discussing her. They actually stayed together for a while after that, then broke up, then got back together, then he almost married her in order to keep her (she was going to leave if he didn’t propose) but he found he still hadn’t gained back the trust he needed so they broke up for good.

  39.  #39Starbright on September 10, 2012 at 9:34 am

    Memulo, Let me rephrase that:

    I would think an honest feeling message would be quite appropriate rather than ignoring his message, which may come across feeling like game playing.

  40.  #40Emoticon on September 10, 2012 at 9:45 am

    interesting read….read it a long time ago n just read it again…

  41.  #41MissStix on September 10, 2012 at 9:45 am


    Thanks! For the encouragement 🙂 I am going into this with a firm understanding of the ease of being an amateur photographer these days. I hope to work that into my business plan in different ways. Luckily pro photography is booming in my city. Having those creative and artistic shots are all the rage! It hits me as a bit of a competition…Everyone wants the best wedding photos and maternity/baby portraits. It’s to the point where people will shell out big money to the right photographer.

  42.  #42Femininewoman on September 10, 2012 at 9:51 am

    Memulo/Starbright – Did he ask a question? Why would it be gameplaying to not respond? He seemed to be sharing a fact and I really see no “need” to respond.

    Memulo I wonder why he thought you ate? Did you tell him you were waiting for him to take you to dinner?

  43.  #43Iamabutterfly on September 10, 2012 at 9:53 am

    @33 Starla – try something like,

    “aww, bummer. I understand how hard it is to control your food intake. you are a beast and so strong for doing that! I feel so proud of you for taking care of yourself. I feel really good being with someone so healthy. I feel inspired. I know you can do it. You’re doing great. I believe in you.”

  44.  #44Starbright on September 10, 2012 at 9:54 am


    Oh, sounds great! Just curious…if you could give some clue as to the area where the pro photo biz is booming?

  45.  #45MissStix on September 10, 2012 at 9:54 am

    The story of G and his ex tells me one thing:

    Even if he caught me with my pants down in the bushes with another guy he would still, at the very least, consider marrying me to keep me around. lmao :p Considering i’ve never done anything like that, and he holds me in very high regard, he would agree to marry me today if not doing so meant losing me. i’d bet my life on it. That tool of rori’s is powerful. Don’t underestimate it!

  46.  #46Starbright on September 10, 2012 at 9:56 am


    I thought they had plans for dinner and he went to take care of a few things first…Memulo?

  47.  #47Starbright on September 10, 2012 at 9:58 am

    MissStyx, Which tool are you referring to?

  48.  #48Calypso on September 10, 2012 at 10:02 am

    GM’s ex wife cheated on him with their kids basketball coach, then tricked him into paying off their home with money he inherited when his parents died so she could get half the value of the house when she left him. She talks bad abouthim to their kids and spit in hs face in front of them . . .

    He does not have anything nice to say about her – he calls he a wh0re :/ I do know this should have been a signal to me that he was not healed or ready for a relationship. Truth is, I did not need a signal – he told me fairly soon after we started dating that he was a mess and I should run . . . i just didn’t want to – still don’t.

  49.  #49MissStix on September 10, 2012 at 10:06 am


    Vancouver BC. Keep in mind I have not done any official research. Going by the fact that every single person I know has hired a pro at least once. Most of them have their wedding/maternity/baby all done by pros posted on FB. It’s like a fad. That’s why I say that. And when I was looking for my own pro for my wedding I was looking at paying minimum $1500 for the lesser packages. Add to that the numerous magazine/film/ad campaign shoots that happen here I figure I should be able to do just fine. Maybe at some point I could work on these shoots.

    My gf is a make-up artist and she does, at the very least, 1 magazine/ ad shoot a week. Plus multiple weddings on weekends. She has never attended a wedding that did not have a pro on hand. She even posts comments on her business page “Looking for a last minute photographer” all the time. She is booked through the end of this year.

  50.  #50Annie on September 10, 2012 at 10:07 am

    37: StarbrightNo Gravatar says:


    “I would think an honest feeling message would be quite appropriate rather than game playing…

    Aw, that feels bad to me that you thought I had already eaten.”

    MMMM I’m sure Memulo doesn’t feel bad that he thought that.

    She feels bad that he didn’t contact her and stood her up..
    She doesn’t want to be stood up and not contacted.

    And good man would be bending over backwards make up for letting her down
    And we all now this.

    You know it, Memulo knows and I know it.

    What are your feelings Memulo and what would your authentic feeling speech and wants and don’t wants be around this.

  51.  #51Starla on September 10, 2012 at 10:08 am

    43 lamabutterfly

    wow thanks lady
    those are great suggestions!
    i am going to use some of those (starla-style).

    thank you for the gorgeous inspiration!

  52.  #52Starbright on September 10, 2012 at 10:09 am


    Thanks for the info. Sounds like you are in a good area and already have a friend who is involved in a related business. Great! Best of luck to you!!!

  53.  #53Annie on September 10, 2012 at 10:10 am

    42: FemininewomanNo Gravatar says:

    Memulo/Starbright – Did he ask a question? Why would it be gameplaying to not respond? He seemed to be sharing a fact and I really see no “need” to respond.

    Memulo I wonder why he thought you ate? Did you tell him you were waiting for him to take you to dinner?

    True, FW there is nothing to respond to at the moment, unless she wants to voice her feelings and wants and don’t wants around what has happened.

  54.  #54Daria on September 10, 2012 at 10:11 am

    my lover has reappeared on the site we met right now and is liking and flirting with me on my statuses hehe oh yeah i called him No name CD

    soooo he might not be ‘the one’ as i feel a lil wall up that we talked aobut kids and he wants a boy to be ‘like him’

    which i understand that i used to want that, but now i want to the kids to be like themselves…

    so i feel scared to bring that in from a man

    sooooo he might not be ‘the one’ but he’s a great lover for now and i feel smily

  55.  #55Annie on September 10, 2012 at 10:12 am

    Seriously, if he did arrange to take her for dinner and then fell asleep.
    As soon as he woke up woudn’t he be like oh shit I better ring and apologies etc and then make it up to her?

    What do you think a good man would do?

  56.  #56Memulo on September 10, 2012 at 10:13 am

    Starbright, FW,

    Thank you for your responses. Yes, the plan was to take me to dinner, he asked if I prefer to get something quick on the road or sit down for dinner and I said I’d like to sit down, then he said he needs to return the car, talk to the child ( and checked with me if he can do it from my pc, but mine is not equipped). So he said he will do all that and then come to pick me up or figure out the best way to get together.

  57.  #57MissStix on September 10, 2012 at 10:13 am


    I don’t know the right name of the tool, but I’m talking about the one where you want marriage so you opt to not commit, and date others to get him to either step up, or not.

    I guess it’s just CDing?

    I could say to him “I don’t want to shack up forever. I want to get married. What do you think?”

    Suppose he says he’s not ready. I could then say “ok, but I feel stuck in a comitted relationship without the prospect of marriage, so I have decided to date others. I want to find someone with the same relationship goals as me.”

    according to rori he will either step up and commit, or he will get lost in the shuffle of more available and marriage oriented men.

  58.  #58bloom-ing on September 10, 2012 at 10:20 am

    mmm idk i feel good & warm & smile-y : ))

  59.  #59Imogen on September 10, 2012 at 10:22 am

    Emoticon, I love that. Thanks for sharing.

  60.  #60Starbright on September 10, 2012 at 10:22 am


    Thanks for clarifying! Yes, I think it is very powerful – to be cding! And, so helps to keep the focus off of one man for us and at the same time motivates a man who is into us to step up!

  61.  #61Calypso on September 10, 2012 at 10:24 am

    JC just texted “TOU” (Thinking of you) . . . I looked at my phone with narrowed eyes . . . like I was daring it to tell me anything nice about JC right now – lol.

    Between him not getting his lazy butt out of bed to walk me out and that pic of GM’s muscular back leading to his tapered hips . . . oh Lord . . . I’m all twitchy and it isn’t because JC is Thinking of me ~

  62.  #62Femininewoman on September 10, 2012 at 10:26 am

    Memulo when that happened to a guy I dated he said he did not wake up till 2 a.m. Then he said he debated with himself about calling the next day but decided not to because he was so scared of the backlash. He decided not to text and not to call. He prefered to disappear. I called to see what happened and he told me this. My response “life happens”. I was invested in the relationship but decided to let him go. He keeps telling me he misses me.

  63.  #63Emoticon on September 10, 2012 at 10:38 am

    Imogen ure very welcome

  64.  #64Iamabutterfly on September 10, 2012 at 10:43 am

    @51 Starla – 🙂

  65.  #65Dominique on September 10, 2012 at 10:44 am

    Heart and others who do not want to get married. This is NOT necessarily a fear of intimacy. I didn’t want to get married, or rather I felt ambivalent about it, had done it unsuccessfully twice before. K was more against it than I. So that we did marry after ten years was a surprise to me. It was more about making things easier legally.

    It was a simple, short, private ceremony which only was at all because it’s required by law in this state. We went and had a lovely dinner out after, just us two.

    So it’s okay if you don’t want to.


  66.  #66Starla on September 10, 2012 at 10:52 am

    “It was a simple, short, private ceremony*”

    *with awesome shoes

  67.  #67Memulo on September 10, 2012 at 10:54 am

    He also said that he installed the app on his cell, so next time he can talk to the child over the phone.

    Thank you for sharing FW, I see where you were coming from!

  68.  #68Tam on September 10, 2012 at 11:07 am

    Hey Smile from previous thread,he has just sent me a one-liner ‘when are you expected to be here?’..which is now the third time he has asked me….
    two weeks ago I said in a month.
    I just wrote an email and – forest siren I saw your post after – just used ot to go on about me and how I was sitting in the garden with lovely green nature and herons and ducks flying by…but I also said that I was feeling anxious which is the truth.
    I feel happy that I expressed myself, the rest is not up to me.
    I feel at peace now.

  69.  #69Daria on September 10, 2012 at 11:08 am

    i just eliminated… using my super power formula … the belief that not wanting to get married MUST BE a fear of intimacy.. yay!

    feels more peaceful and less triggering this way

  70.  #70Tam on September 10, 2012 at 11:13 am

    oh wow, he answered me straigh back about his business and that he still has the boats..yay!!
    And that he would help me whatever I need..oooh that is so sweet! 🙂

  71.  #71Femininewoman on September 10, 2012 at 11:24 am


    Speaks to you, touches you, kisses you, puts his arm around you – wherever you are – notice if you stiffen up or jump to reciprocate in a strong way.

    Notice if you feel angry, if you lean your body away at that moment, or if all of a sudden your brain gets really noisy and the talk in your head gets loud.

    Notice this so you can identify your boy energy – because boy energy, when you’re with your man, is covering up your girl energy. You have to SWITCH HATS, so now…


    Loosen your body, one bit of you at a time – shoulders first – so your girl energy gets a chance to breathe and shine through.

    Breathe into the parts of your body that feel stiff to you.

    Now focus down into exactly what’s in front of you – what you’re touching, what you’re standing on, how his arm feels, what you smell and hear in the room.

    In that moment, you’ll FEEL SOMETHING. So, in that moment, use a Feeling Message that simply says what’s in front of you, what you’re feeling about what you’re seeing and touching – it could be as simple as “It feels so exciting in here,” or, “I’m feeling so hungry…”

    DON’T launch into a discussion about the “relationship,” or about “planning,” or the logistics of a date, or about anything right now. (There’s plenty of time for that, and you want to be more used to your girl energy and the words and body language that go with it first.) Then…

    6. Something different will happen…

    In the moment you use a genuine Feeling Message, so you FEEL more of your feelings and your body isn’t so rigid, HE WILL DO SOMETHING!

    He’ll look at you.

    He’ll hold you tighter.

    He’ll reach for you in bed and stroke your face or your body.

    He’ll SPEAK.

    Something will happen, and you’ll feel a shift in HIS energy. It will happen because you will have gone into girl energy in that moment, and HE FELT IT, and it instantly made HIM shift into BOY energy.

    In that moment, you will have changed the entire dynamic of your relationship. You will have allowed your girl energy to connect with his boy energy.

    7. Keep The Moments Going…

  72.  #72Smile on September 10, 2012 at 11:28 am

    Here you all are…!

    Thanks for the heads up tam!


    Hmmm… I wonder what you think to saying that you still have too many feelings to be in touch with him when you get to Florida…. know that script???

  73.  #73Goddess Lily on September 10, 2012 at 11:28 am

    I like this topic waaaaay better than the last one! 🙂

  74.  #74Smile on September 10, 2012 at 11:31 am

    Ooo FW 71- i feel so proud of myself for being able to shift into my girl energy to receive the kiss the other night. This is growth for me. Yey!

  75.  #75Smile on September 10, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Forest siren from previous thread 1212

    I am wonderful!

    He he, feels good to compliment my self!

    It doesn’t feel natural at first but… It’s all about me!


  76.  #76ruth on September 10, 2012 at 11:54 am


    I feel so sad reading about Flowerchild and her son
    And I feel angry too
    Why is life so unfair

  77.  #77amber on September 10, 2012 at 11:56 am

    Well, im slowly mentally letting go of him. He texted me today n asked if i was ok. I said i felt down n still hurt. That i was working on me and if he really values me, he will do the work, cuz i dont have the time or energy right now. He got pissy n said if i dont dedicate to him, he wont dedicate to me. I was like, whoa. I said my role has changed, im not his gf n he has new one. As a friend i cant take care or him like a gf becuz thats not who i am. If he wants to talk, he has to talk to me, im not chasing him anymore, becuz all it does is hurt me. He got mad n sent, ttyl. ? I basically said if he wants me, hell work for me, not me him. Its on him now. Im angry today, but watever. I got shtuff to do….

  78.  #78Smile on September 10, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    Hi Ruth! I went interval training tonight! I feel full of energy!

  79.  #79Smile on September 10, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    Eek… I got a viewing on my house!

    I feel excited! But I may feel a little bit Rushed if it happens to quick. I’ll try describe my home using feeling messages. I hope she likes it so I can scoot on out of here and to a town full of men!!

  80.  #80Smile on September 10, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    Amber, these sound great boundaries! Yey for you!

  81.  #81Tam on September 10, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Smile…he has sent a very lovely email. I feel much better, safer, with him now.
    He wants to see me, he wants to do our favourite activity, boating, and he has kept his promise of not selling the boats till I get there.
    He is still planning to move to Europe 🙁
    But he has asked me to help with my opinion and he has told me that he will help me get to the US, whatever that means.
    I have no expectations but I feel happy that he is looking forward to seeing me and is tentatively ‘booking’ me.
    It can all turn to nothing so I am not getting excited – but I do feel happy that he is planning for when I get there.

  82.  #82Tereana on September 10, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Ok, so I have to stay realistic. It doesn’t matter if I had a super erotic dream about vman after seeing him. I still know it is only about sex. It is only chemistry. And you need chemistry in a relationship. But it’s not the only ingredient. Trial-bf is still the better bet, in my mind. He’s showing up all that be can, and really dedicating himself to creating a relationship – not just talking sex and wanting to get into bed right away. Though we do talk about sex, and how we feel about it.

    I’m a little nervous that I won’t like sex with him. I *know* that I’d like sex with vman. That much is clear. I’ve been close enough to know how good it would feel. But again, you can’t base a relationship only on that….

    Whew. Deeep

  83.  #83ruth on September 10, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    Hello Amber

    you have made a fabulous start in setting your boundaries!

    Sile, ooh, i dont do intervals, parkrun is my only “speedwork”.had a helish marathon at the weeekdn, well, actually i stopped at 13 miles.hardly EVER do that, but i a carrying a hamstring niggle

    Tam-ooh,all this feels intriguing

  84.  #84ruth on September 10, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    Tereana, the sex thing is powerful isnt it

    You seem to have it sorted though

  85.  #85Smile on September 10, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    RUTH! 5k parkrun would feel like a marathon to me lol, I love it that you call this speedwork!!

    I feel giggly!

    I only did 1 min sprint 1 min fast walk for 20 mins. We’ve got a running club at work for 2 days now. We run in the local area by the river.

  86.  #86ruth on September 10, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    Smile, I feel curious as to where you might be moving

  87.  #87Dominique on September 10, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    Starla – 66 – 🙂 times three.


  88.  #88Smile on September 10, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    Ruth, do you know didsbury?

  89.  #89Tam on September 10, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    Ruth, it is intriguing. Trying not to have any expectations. I shall write some emails to a couple of CD’s to stay centered 😉

  90.  #90Starla on September 10, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    woohoo i just signed up for another race:D

  91.  #91Smile on September 10, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    Tam, that feels nice. No expectations is the hardest. I feel confident though that you will continue to make your own hapiness and be in the moment.

    I will miss you when you go to Florida times.

  92.  #92ruth on September 10, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    Smile, if you are just starting out, literally, then its too early for speedwork really

    Run/walk is great, but build up time on feet at jogging pace, so you can talk as you run

    Really, you could do a parkrun now
    Some people walk the whole lot
    Do a big one like Heaton or bramhall

  93.  #93Smile on September 10, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    Tam, would you describe mrP as an elasticband man?

  94.  #94Smile on September 10, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    He he, ruth, I always talk as I run  I could do the 5k without walking but at a slow steady pace.

  95.  #95Iamabutterfly on September 10, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    A dream interpretation would feel great!

    I dreamt I could fly, and in my dream, it was this special ability that all my friends were super impressed by.

    So I was showing everyone how to fly, and some of my friends tried it and were successful.

    I felt really happy and important in the dream.

    Then, as I was flying, I saw that one of my old flames was flying too. In real life, he just got married. The girl he married was the girl right after me.

    (sidenote: this has happened to me with EVERY SINGLE guy I’ve been “almost” involved with since I was 18. I don’t know if it’s been because of my simultaneous amazingness/fear of intimacy or because of my Christian cultures tendency to marry early, but it had made me feel “almost good enough, just not good enough.” Which let me tell you, feels lousy.)

    Anyway, I saw my old flame flying and it made me feel angry that he could do it too. I felt angry that he still wanted to be friends with me after just abandoning me and marrying another girl. (it doesn’t matter that this happened two years after we even lived in the same state.)

    Anyway, so I go from feeling blissful to angry in my flying dream, and I see old flame, and I float over to him Matrix style and I just push him away as hard as I can.

    and then I wake up.


  96.  #96ruth on September 10, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    Good move tam

    Starla, I am addicted to entering races

    It feels good!

  97.  #97Tam on September 10, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    Smile, he is an elastic band man, though not so much when I am there…he was pretty much in touch every day when I was in Florida last, but we also live a distance away. He likes me at his place, and once he gets me there it is quite difficult to get him to drive me home….as I don’t have a car it’s a bit of an issue 😉

    Ruth and Smile, I am totally excited that we are all into running….going for my 6 miles again tomorrow 🙂 feels soo good.
    Has been keeping me sane 🙂

  98.  #98ruth on September 10, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    94 smile then you can do a parkrun!

  99.  #99ruth on September 10, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    slow and steady is how to do a marathon


    Running has kept me sane too

  100.  #100Smile on September 10, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    Tam, does everyone have roller-skates in Florida or is this a myth? When you said you don’t have a car, I imagined you turning round to mrP after being at his and saying, it would feel good to skate home tonight.

    ((my crazy imagination))

  101.  #101Smile on September 10, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    Ruth Yup! Just got to get my barcode then I’m there.

    Hoping my brother will do it to but walk it. He needs exercise. He’s depressed. He can’t work due to his medical problems so it would feel good to get him into the fresh air.

    I had more energy tonight after running.
    Love the saying- energy makes energy… Does that sound right?

  102.  #102KJ on September 10, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    It’s taken me five different times to try and start writing this post.. Just not sure how to start it, because that is how confused or I’m just not sure what to think or how to handle my situation. I have Rori’s ebook and Im actually going back to re-read it again tonight. Going to try and make a real long, long story short without leaving out major details. My current relationship started almost 3 years ago, this October will actually make 3 years. I had just filed for legal separation. We are both in our 30’s., I was married for almost 13 years and he has never been married. The beginning of our relationship I fell head over hills for him, he gave me the attention, love and etc.. that I had lacked in my marriage for several years. Of course I did everything wrong in the beginning chasing him and leaning forward etc… Come to find out the whole time that I thought we were exclusive; he was actually talking and seeing someone else. Again I did everything wrong, and I called it off. He came back a few days later said that he had ended things with her and wanted to be with me. I did tell him that if he wanted to date other girl that was fine, that I would do the same. He said no that was not what he wanted. We got back together, and I thought we were great. To make this short the above went scenario went on for about a year, and I finally had a enough and I was done. Did not talk to him for about 2 weeks avoided phone calls, text messages and even running to him at work. He did text and beg for me to talk to him that he was sorry, and he was just scared of getting hurt by me. He was scarred I was going to go back to my EX, he said that had happen to him before, and that he was just messed up and he was trying to get things right and did not want to lose me. I told him that I could not make any promises that I needed to know for a fact that he called it off with her. If he did not want to do that, that was fine with me but I would not be making no commitment to him unless I knew for a fact. That afternoon on his way home from work, he called me and was crying and said that he did call her and end things with her and he was ending things with me also,, that he needed time to think.. I was beyond furious, for what he had called and told me prior to this and mad at the whole situation. I done something on this day that I will forever regret, but I told him fine that was what he wanted I was fine with it.. I wasn’t, I ended up getting a friend of mine to ride with me to his house to drop off something’s of his I had off.. I pulled up and her car was there and they pulled up together. Not to go into all the detail, I made a complete fool out of myself. The only good thing that came out of it, is that she actually found out about me. She had no idea til then… After all that horrible seen.. He was calling me that night telling me he was sorry and that he was not trying to hurt me.. I told him I was done and he needed to move on with his life, because I was going to move on with mine… ( Can you say roller coaster ride ) !!!!! Well we ended up back together after some time apart, and we had really been doing good, he has been great at showing me that he is wanting me to trust him, ( and I was giving him the benefit of the doubt with can be very hard) … We were together and I started letting him come around my kids, which I hadn’t really done in the past. We were really doing good.. Until a couple of Sundays ago we were at his parents house eating breakfast with some of his family from out of town. She (the girl that he was seeing in the beginning) shows up at his house and walks in and throws a bag of clothes at him and walks out. He did not move, so I did I walked outside and I calmly asked her what that was about. She stated that they had been talking and texting some.. and she had been asking him to come get his things she found of his while she was packing up her stuff to move.. He never came outside while we were talking… I asked her how long they had been texting and talking and what was being said, she told me that she was not there to cause trouble, but when she saw my car she knew that he had been lying to her.. He had been telling her that we were not together, that she was the one for him and that he was trying to get his life straight… etc…. So she left and told me she would call me later.. I went back inside started getting my stuff together to leave, told him that I was gone, and that I would never understand why he was the way he is… He told me that he had been avoiding her and he had not been by her to get the clothes, even though he could have..He was trying to avoid her and that the things that she said were not true… She and I tried to get him to talk to both of us at the same time and he would not, which I think back now and that was probably for the best. I have talked to her since then and he has not contacted her. I know you all are probably thinking I’m crazy, but we are together at the moment and we have talked about what happen. He has such great potential to be the person I fell in love with, we have a great time together, we have so much in common. I really care for him and love him. I guess what has me really thinking about our relationship and how I feel about it, Is the question my dad asked me yesterday.. He said KJ what the deal with you and SC are you head over heels in love with him. I couldn’t honestly answer him.. I told him that at one time I was, and I still love him and care about what happens with him. But I do not trust him at this point, and I was so close to getting back the trust this last time, and really thought that we were doing great and moving forward and then all that happen that Sunday. I just don’t know which one of them is telling the truth and I just don’t know if I can put my all back into a relationship that I keep getting burned in. I want to talk to him about how I’m feeling, just not sure how… Part of me wants to trust him and believe in him… But the other part of me is saying stop being a fool; and walk away you have done all that you can do to show him that you cared and you were not going to hurt him. & in all this I have been the one that has been hurt… I would love and really hope I get some advice back… I’m just at at lose and not sure which way I need to turn or how I need to handle the situation… I’m so sorry it is so long.. Thanks

  103.  #103Tam on September 10, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    Smile, haha!!! Well, many do have Rollerblades, yes, and al the gear too 😉
    Not me, I’d fall ar** over t*t….haaa!!
    So he just has to drive me, and usually gets into a huff…but it’s cute. I then have to say how I loooove it at his and how saaaad I am having to go back home. Then he cheers up 😉
    Oh the fun and games.
    Truth is I love my Condo, I can see the beach…very calming!! Always happy to be back there! Ha!!

  104.  #104Smile on September 10, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    I’d so have roller blades, you’d get places in half the time! Well, compared to walking.

    Were having a storm here. I can here the rain belting down. Quite a change from Sunday’s BBQ. I’m imagining a sea view right now. Actually a house with a balcony would feel great!

    Tam, how would you feel about him coming to you?

  105.  #105Siren Angel on September 10, 2012 at 1:28 pm


    Major update.

    I had a major flood at my house and the insurance company has installed some dryers everywhere and it sounds like an airplane engine.

    Then news from M! Of course I had to tell him about the floor and he suggested me and kiddie stay at his house as friends.

    He says it’s beem really difficult for him and he’s just starting to get better but wants to help me.

    It would make it so much easier to go there. I cant cook at home and forget about homeword or sleeping!

    What do I do?

  106.  #106Smile on September 10, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    As in to your condo…

  107.  #107Tam on September 10, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    He does occasionally, but he likes his toys and there is generally more to do at his place, it’s more of a family home and feels better there. He also has a flat next door with own entry and I can stay there, so I can have my own place with privacy…’s ideal actually.
    I only have a tiny studio.

  108.  #108Tam on September 10, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    Oh Siren Angel, you’ve got to do what you have to do but I would advise not to go to his.

    I am sorry to hear about the flood!! 🙁

  109.  #109Starla on September 10, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    Eek sorry your place flooded

  110.  #110Smile on September 10, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    Ah, I remember bout the place next door now.

    Are you going to be far from him when you go back?

  111.  #111Smile on September 10, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    Oh no SA!

    Do you have anywhere else to stay..

  112.  #112Tam on September 10, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    Smile, about 40 mins by car on the motorway, so yes, a little distance- and he hates driving, so a nice test to see what happens 😉

  113.  #113Smile on September 10, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    He would have to do a lot of the lead in that situation I guess. Perfect opportunity fo you to use lots of feeling messages.

  114.  #114Turquoise on September 10, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    Hi Sirens! Hope everyone is well. Leaving work now and will post more tonight.

    This article made me realize I really need to figure out what I want. I thought I wanted to get married, I probably do…. but I really want to travel too. Not sure I want to be tied down when my girls are grown.

  115.  #115Tam on September 10, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    Smile, yep, I don’t know what will happen but last time I never initiated anything and he picked me up, made sure I was fed, watered, entertained, got me sightseeing, installed me in his perfectly clean and tidy little flat (rest of house mad) and so on….all in all I was pretty amazed. It was a total turnaround.
    So I feel curious what will happen now…could be nothing, could be everything 😉

  116.  #116Femininewoman on September 10, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    Siren Angel – I felt a major recoil and eek at “kiddie stay at his house as friends”. I would definitely discourage this but you know best.

  117.  #117Starbright on September 10, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    Siren Angel,

    Oh, sounds somewhat tempting…yet the “friends” part would feel bad to me.

    And, it could be easy to get into a friends with benefits relationship without really meaning to…

    Best wishes in your decision.

  118.  #118ruth on September 10, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    Tam, I am feeling excited for you
    Smile, yes indeed Energy begets energy!
    I feel so happy to hear about your brother possibly doing parkrun
    it is such a wonderful concept and I love it

  119.  #119Calypso on September 10, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    Siren Angel – Yikes! I am so sorry about your flooding . . . but would hate to see you slide backward by staying at his house “as friends” . . . it was nice of him to ask, but you did tell him about your situation, so any decent man would have offered to help. It might shock him to know you are valuing yourself enough not to put yourself in that situation – even if it is a hardship on you.

    What do you think?

  120.  #120ruth on September 10, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    Siren Angel I am feeling anxious about your situation

  121.  #121Siren Angel on September 10, 2012 at 2:32 pm


    I made arrangements for kiddie to stay at his dads for 4 days and called back M. He Insists I stay at his place…

  122.  #122Annie on September 10, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    Oh Gosh Siren Angel, so sorry to hear about your flooding.

    I feel in agreement with the others especially re ‘friends’
    If you take him up on the offer he will think friendship is on.

    Do you really think it is your higher long-term good?


  123.  #123Annie on September 10, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    Are you ready to be his ‘friend’?

  124.  #124ruth on September 10, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    121 SA

    wont it be very hard to lean back in that situation?

    what will you do

  125.  #125bloom-ing on September 10, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    (((siren angel)))

  126.  #126Memulo on September 10, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    SA, so sorry about your situation. I think that M needs a major push:) which you will be effectively giving him by refusing his offer!

  127.  #127Siren Angel on September 10, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    Sirens, I have a feeling about this… He was practically begging me to come over. I said i would find another solution and he said ‘no no no’

  128.  #128Butterfly wings on September 10, 2012 at 3:10 pm

    SA – I think you know deep down what the right thing to do to protect your heart is.

    I hope everything dries quickly!


  129.  #129forest siren on September 10, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    Siren angel. I have a slightly different take on things. To me this is one of those crazy situations occurring that is an opportunity for you to say what you want. Oh it would feel so good to be looked after by you in this situation but I’m not comfortable with x y and z ….. Dont drop the bar it will be so hard to raise it afterwards. Also it’s good he is having a hard time with all this that’s what you want dont dilute it!

    Also how did he hear about this?

  130.  #130forest siren on September 10, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    Ooooh tam! Mr p is stepping up!

  131.  #131Siren Angel on September 10, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    He called and of course I told him. What if the Universe is making this happen? A friend of mine into more holistic things says water represents emotions… What if I tell him (if he comes on to me) it would feel so good but i dont want to sleep with you as friends? His intention is either friendly putting me in another room or he is using this to get back or he knows he will try to sleep with me.

  132.  #132Siren Angel on September 10, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    Kiddie is now at his dads and the noise in my house is deafening… I really dont know what to do… Am i really am tempted, but not to go sleep with him or try to make up. What if I lean completely back while there?

  133.  #133Butterfly wings on September 10, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    SA. What would you advise a friend if she were in this sane situation?


  134.  #134forest siren on September 10, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    So why did he call in the first place? Water does reprent emotions! This reminds me of the random thing that happened to me (a car crash) ….he knows you have lots of friends you can stay with? Maybe let him rescue you but lean back and listen to him and stick to your line about whT you need. when he called was he suggesting anything before you told him about flood?

  135.  #135Siren Angel on September 10, 2012 at 3:53 pm

    BW! To NOT sleep with him.

    After our 1st breakup last summer, we actually went on vacation together because already planned (pre-Rori) and got back together. I got modern siren 1 week before vacation and listened all the time and majorly leaned back on vacation.

  136.  #136Goddess Lily on September 10, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    Woo! Catching up on everything.


    The flooding sounds horrible but staying at a gf’s house sounds like a better idea or a hotel.

  137.  #137Siren Angel on September 10, 2012 at 3:55 pm

    Forest Siren,
    He called to see how I was. Told me it’s been really harf for him and that he’s sad but feeling a little bit better. I told him I felt sad too and the flood and he could hear the noise in my house…

  138.  #138Siren Angel on September 10, 2012 at 4:03 pm

    I live an hour away from the big city and friends where I could possibly stay. Ofherwise, i would stay home and put up with the noise. The flooding does stress me out so I would need to relax, do yoga, before I go over there for sure.

    Is going there accepting his invitation leaning forward if i lean back while there? Wouldnt e be put off if i refuse his help?

  139.  #139forest siren on September 10, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    Hmmmm tricky. You already have the precedent for breaking up but kindof staying together and then getting back together.

    Sounds to me like you are going over there;) so rockstar it. And write your speech now. What do you want? Do you want marriage? M is in pain right now and wants you to ease that pain but no commitment. So based on the last breakup and get back together wht would you do differently cos here is your do over courtesy of a convenient flood arranged by the universe!

  140.  #140Annie on September 10, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    If you accept his help it is as a friend and he then thinks you are accepting friendship.

    Is that what you want?

    The deal he is offering is friendship.
    If you want to accept friendship then you have your answer.
    If you don’t then you have your answer.

  141.  #141Annie on September 10, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    If you have your speech and you are invested and hoping on a certain outcome he will pick up that vibe.

    If you really are whatever and mean it he will pick this up.
    This is the place you have to be at.
    Are you at that place?
    That’s the only place to rockstar it, you can’t fake it.

  142.  #142Siren Angel on September 10, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    Forest Siren.

    It is very tricky.. 3rd breakup in 1.5 years and 1 vacation as friends where we came back together.

    Ideas for speech?

    I feel so good being taken care of like this.

    If he comes on to me:
    I feel so good in your arms but it would not feel good to do this as friends. I value my feminity and body too much.
    I feel so relieved to be here in this calm.

  143.  #143forest siren on September 10, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    Oh it’s so easy to give advice! So much harder to work out what to do in my own situation.

    Siren angel one other thing just for me I would not allow being ‘put in the spare room’. No way. I would not want to be seen as friend in spare room or start that as a pattern. That’s just me so I would either stay at home in my own comfy bed even if noisy or accept that if I go over there I am most likely going to be in his bed. Sleeping in the spare kids room feels yucky to me ….. But hey I’m in no position to be giving any kindof advice here 😉

  144.  #144forest siren on September 10, 2012 at 4:21 pm

    You could call him and say oh I feel so stressed it would feel so good if you would get me some ear plugs and a nice takeaway and bring them here I feel uncertain about going to yours. 😉

  145.  #145luzydel on September 10, 2012 at 4:49 pm

    I feel disconnected from the blog; maybe it is just me, but I feel what I feel.

    I do not like to be “call out” when I express my anger and frustration over a CD, I am not trying to control that particular CD, but I care about myself and I want to protect mYself, so when someone disrespects me, I feel angry. OK next!

    I done with Dw for now, he is who he is and I don’t want who he is or what he is… I made a list on app in my I-phone and every time I see a man with a quality I like a write it down..

    I am making this post another step to express my feelings.

  146.  #146Siren Angel on September 10, 2012 at 4:54 pm

    Oh.. He just texted ‘did you eat? Should i get you something?’

  147.  #147Miss Bells on September 10, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    Things are getting cozier with HS. Three great weekends in a row.
    I am in my place 20 miles away during the week and with him on weekends.
    This weekend I had a conference in the city that went from 9 to 5 Friday through Sunday with an hour+ commute on each end.
    So I just went to my place last night, but Saturday I went to his/ours.
    This weekend he started kissing me goodnight in the hallway between the rooms.
    He implied that we should share his room one of these nights.
    I am thinking of my script, something like this:
    “I really miss the touching, the intimacy, and the s-x. It would feel really good to snuggle up to you.
    But–I am not into casual s-x at all and I don’t want to have the door shut on me again in a couple of days or weeks-that would just feel too awful… So if we are going to sleep together I want it to be special. What do you think?”

    So-how does that sound?

  148.  #148Miss Bells on September 10, 2012 at 5:34 pm

    Siren Angel–it sounds like he is really trying to be the man here. I agree that you are in a position to say anything you want, and to make any boundaries you want.
    I stay in my old room when I am up at HS’s house because we are still in the process of working out our deal. There is no one else since the 5 week situation with poor little what’s her name, and I know he is really interested in me.
    But I won’t move back in without a ring. Being the fake housemate again is out of the question.

  149.  #149Lily Medusa on September 10, 2012 at 5:41 pm


    This is a powerful dream for you. I’d like to know more about it before I say “this is what I think it means,” but right now I’ll share what stands out to me with the information I have.

    First, I’m curious to know what time you had the dream. Research suggests that dreams in the beginning of sleep tend to include more negative emotions, while dreams closer to the end of sleep (i.e. toward morning) tend to feel more positive. This may be because dreaming is one way our minds make sense of stressors we encounter while awake. As the night glides by, our subconscious minds reach deeper for solutions to complex problems. Flying dreams are quite common, usually occur late in the sleep cycle, and tend to involve a sense of euphoria. When I have a flying dream, I consider it an indicator that my life is going in a positive direction and I’m feeling powerful in general. (I still feel disappointed when I wake up though.) But what intrigues me about this particular dream is how your feelings of euphoria were sort of eclipsed by the rage you felt upon discovering that your ex was flying too.

    I think your angry feelings in the dream, plus the act of pushing your ex away, carry the strongest message for you. If not for those elements, this would just be another euphoric flying dream. I wouldn’t normally interpret the flying as a representation of successful relationships, but the specific appearance of that ex in that situation (and the fact that you felt inclined to write about it on this blog) leads me to wonder if that is, in fact, a useful interpretation. Within the context of everything you’ve learned from Rori Raye and the community here, could your flying represent your new power to experience a successful committed relationship? Having watched your journey for several months, I can say that I have certainly seen you grow and develop that skill and I know you are much stronger now than you used to be. You may not realize it but you are very very close.

    Intuitively I doubt that you are still hung up on this specific guy. I’m wondering if you feel threatened by his ability (in your perception) to marry and have a committed relationship. The lovers who abandoned you only to marry someone else were ready for relationship. They didn’t pick you because you weren’t ready at those times. There is nothing wrong with you because you didn’t have the skills then. Neither did I a year ago, and neither did others here before we found Rori Raye (I’m not saying everyone). The fact that you FOUND this stuff tells me that you are now ready to heal.

    It sounds like you are still in pain about your past pattern of being the girl BEFORE “the one” for so many of your past loves. If this were my dream, I might start by asking myself: Did this dream come along to tell me my anger and pain are still getting in my way?

    When I interpret my own dreams, I question how other characters in my dream could represent different aspects of myself. So I wonder if this ex, who was ready to be in a real relationship before you were, is also a part of you. Could you be violently pushing away the part of yourself that is ready to be married? Or perhaps you are pushing away the part of you that sees you as “not enough” or “unworthy.” In the dream, the violent act of pushing your former lover away from you didn’t heal your hurt, anger or confusion. I wonder what this is mirroring in real life?

    I feel curious to know what you feel and think about these suggestions.

  150.  #150Daria on September 10, 2012 at 5:51 pm

    Shaming Children Is Emotionally Abusive

    Children respect those who respect them.

    Published on September 10, 2012 by Karyl McBride, Ph.D. in The Legacy of Distorted Love

    I recently attended a social gathering with friends, family, strangers and a bunch of cute kids. As the day ended and goodbyes were shared, I over heard a six-year-old quietly ask her mother for something. Suddenly, in front of the crowd, the mother exploded and yelled hysterically at the child. The little girl was silenced with tears streaming down her cheeks. It looked like a familiar scene for mother and daughter. The crowd silenced too, but quickly acted like nothing happened. This example of shaming and humiliating a child can have long term devastating effects. Will this little girl grow up to respect her mother?

    “ Wherever I look, I see signs of the commandment to honor one’s parents and nowhere of a commandment that calls for the respect of a child.” Children respect those who respect them. The above quote comes from my colleague, Alice Miller, who passed in 2010. Her deeply thoughtful and profound work continues to inspire. She’s considered the most articulate child advocate in the world.

    Adult children raised by narcissistic parents frequently tell similar childhood stories of shame and humiliation. Often these shaming acts take place in front of other people. Treating children badly and without respect is not the golden rule for parenting, but why do we see this so often?

    Just today, a friend shared a similar story. Her brother frequently shames his children. When the family gets together, he loudly announces the wrong doings of his children, with no insight to the damage it does. The children stand listening with eyes cast downward. Is it any wonder that young people in these situations grow into adults with self-doubt, depression and anxiety?

    Shaming and humiliating children is emotionally abusive. It is not ok to smack children physically or with words. Young people deserve and are entitled to reach out, attach and bond with their caretakers. It is an expectation that the parent will provide safety, protection, acceptance, understanding and empathy. When this does happen, children grow up knowing their worth and demanding respect from others and themselves. When children are emotionally or psychologically abused, they grow up feeling unloved, unwanted, and fearful. Normal development is interrupted and it sends the wounded child into exile. This is when negative internal messages are developed and why we have so many adults today feeling “not good enough.”

    As children become adults, they parent themselves in the same manner they were parented. Messages internalized from childhood are now ingrained in the adult. Those messages play like repeating endless tapes. “How could you be so stupid?” “ You can’t do anything right.” “ This is why no-one likes you.”

    Shaming and humiliation causes fear in children. This fear does not go away when they grow up. It becomes a barrier for a healthy emotional life and is difficult to eradicate. If these same children become parents, the possibility also exists that the fear and negativity can be unwittingly passed through the generations.

    Our goal in recovery is to stop the legacy of distorted love. As Seneca (Roman philosopher, author, politician, 4 B.C.E. to C.E. 65) says, “ Fear and love cannot live together…Blows are used to correct brute beasts.” {Daria has a possibly diff interpretation of what he intended here… but… }

    When we talk about disrespectful children, we must look at parenting. Solid parenting shows children respect and empathy. When a parent truly gives respect to a child, they receive it back. When this becomes the norm for the household, we see young people grow up with a loving value system that makes a difference in the world. However, when children are shamed, humiliated and then silenced, it represses the harm that may re-surface later in life. If this happens, it can be in the form of self-destruction or cruelty to others.

    Make the commitment to never shame a child. Treat children like you want to be treated. If you were raised by narcissistic parents, your own recovery work truly makes the difference. I salute you for the earnest efforts to stop the legacy of distorted love. The children of the world need YOU!

    Additional Resources:

    Virtual Workshop: Healing the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers

    Work the 5-step recovery model in the comfort of your own home.

  151.  #151Daria on September 10, 2012 at 5:53 pm

    im having a hard time believing im good enough

    i wanted to post something teasing my brother but i held back out of fear as i see him as ‘in the group’ and me ‘out’


    this feels painful rarrgh and numbing

    i want to heal this

    i feel frustrated!

    when will i finally believe im worthy!!!!!!


  152.  #152Miss Bells on September 10, 2012 at 6:03 pm

    #150 So true Daria! Both my late parents were narcissists. The scars last a long time.

  153.  #153Goddess Lily on September 10, 2012 at 6:06 pm

    150 – That’s just one of my mom’s issues. I guess that does explain why I never feel good enough.

  154.  #154Daria on September 10, 2012 at 6:19 pm

    i don’t really think of my parents as narcissists, tho i can and after this maybe it will be crossing my mind lol – but i dont want to label people

    but there was definitely the belief in shaming and that kind of behavior

    and this is helping me get even more clear on not tolerating this


    ive already been speaking up for myself a LOT i see that .. yum yum

    another lil lift for me

  155.  #155Daria on September 10, 2012 at 6:24 pm

    courage is having the belief in oneself… the emotional support, internalized, to do what one wants

    so when i say i dont have courage, its not an inborn trait, is whether my inner voices are supporting me

    so they were not, they said… you might be attacked and feel awful

    they dont know who you are not that close, yu dont have the ‘right’ to say that, its nto earned thru status

    aha ok its unraveling some

  156.  #156Daria on September 10, 2012 at 6:25 pm

    i feel glad to see this touched you ladies. we are healing

  157.  #157Heart on September 10, 2012 at 6:37 pm

    #25 – Calypso – meow! sounds yummy…But, once again, should not be encouraging this 🙂

    # 65 – Dominique – thanks for the reassurance…feels good.

  158.  #158#eart on September 10, 2012 at 6:51 pm

    # 68 – Tam – wow…I feel happy to read you told him you were anxious…Awwr sounds like Mr.P is really excited foryou o isit….Feeling concerned though…Would feel relieved to hear you’re keeping your heart open…(don’t forget the Cuban guy)

    #69- Daria (^_^)

  159.  #159Miss Bells on September 10, 2012 at 6:57 pm

    #102 (((( KJ ))))
    Please give yourself time to think before you react. Time alone.
    It is not clear that he deserves your trust.
    He hasn’t made a clean commitment to you.
    Are you dating others? It may be a very good idea to start doing so, no matter what comes of this. No matter how uncomfortable it feels.
    He needs to prove himself over a stretch of ground, and so far he hasn’t.

  160.  #160Heart on September 10, 2012 at 6:58 pm

    # 158 are my comments…
    I made a mistake with the name…
    Is there anyway to make your name permanent?

  161.  #161Heart on September 10, 2012 at 6:59 pm

    ooooh it didnt post ….kay Ill have to

  162.  #162Siren Angel on September 10, 2012 at 6:59 pm

    He offered pasta and veal limone with wine. Music. His bed with me alone in it. Telling me I am sooo beautiful but that if he sleeps in same bed won’t be able to keep his hands off me. I said it would feel bad to me to sleep together as friends. I offered in exchange many FMs about southing, touch, heart, sad, happy, ect. So far I am leaning way back… Argh…

  163.  #163Heart on September 10, 2012 at 7:02 pm

    # 68 – Tam – I feel happy to read you told Mr. P you were feeling anxious….Sounds like he’s excited to have you in FL.
    I feel concerned though….would feel good to hear you’re keeping your heart open…

    #69 – Daria (^_^)

  164.  #164Goddess Lily on September 10, 2012 at 7:03 pm

    Stay strong SA! You will feel so good about it later. Sounds like he is doing everything one would want. Keep it up!

  165.  #165Miss Bells on September 10, 2012 at 7:06 pm

    # 161 SA
    Offering YOU his bed for yourself and telling you how beautiful you are and he wouldn’t be able to keep his hands off you–Nope–he is not angling for “just friends”.
    Now the next hurdle is friends with bennies. Just say no. Sleep in his bed by yourself.
    If he is serious he will make it clear.
    You are doing great!!!

  166.  #166Heart on September 10, 2012 at 7:08 pm

    #161 SA – you’re leaning far back But you’re going to stay at his house? Ok SA.
    I feel disappointed.
    I feel irritated and compassionate at the same time.

  167.  #167Siren Angel on September 10, 2012 at 7:08 pm

    And there is a big pillow he says he has been holding instead of me while sleeping…

  168.  #168LiliBee on September 10, 2012 at 7:08 pm


    Trust your boundaries SA.
    Men looove to help damsels in distress.

  169.  #169LiliBee on September 10, 2012 at 7:13 pm

    I woke up this morning with my entire back muscles all stiff and tense.

    It’s been that way all day.

    I still went to zumba class as it does help loosen up the stiffness.
    I need to look into this.

    I can’t ‘feel’ what’s causing this muscle tension.
    I did last time it happened a week ago, and was able to release.
    I had just noticed my feelings, observed them and let them go…and it worked to relax my muscles.

    But now, hmmm, can’t put my finger on it.

  170.  #170Miss Bells on September 10, 2012 at 7:15 pm

    Does anyone know how FlowerChild is doing?

  171.  #171LiliBee on September 10, 2012 at 7:17 pm

    While on vacation, I went to a country arts and crafts boutique where I found what I had been looking for for years:
    A small rectangular pillow filled with linen seeds used to put a gentle weight on the eyes to relax them.
    There’s lavendar oil in it.
    It feels heavenly.

  172.  #172Siren Angel on September 10, 2012 at 7:20 pm

    Thank you Sirens! I really appreciate your support. I am feeling all smiley in his bed. Not sure where all this will lead us. He has been telling me how sad he was last weekend to go to a wedding alone (I forgot that was last weekend!) he had invited me to. he also apologized about the weekend in Lake Placid, to which I said I felt angry and sad about. he then asked if I was angry at him, i said no, I feel angry about the weekend, it would have felt so beautiful and told him also ‘oh yeah and I feel angry about the wedding’. He said he didnt feet comfortable calling me to go because he felt ridiculous about it and ended up feeling ridiculous going alone. He keeps saying how difficult it’s been and he is clearly trying hard to stay away somewhat physically when we pass close to each other, but his eyes give him off… I am feeling very curious. We listened to music and I laid back on the sofa with one of my arms dangling down imagining being in a row boat and totally laying back. I closed my eyes. He eventually closed his but I caught him peeking at me many times when I would open them… Anyway, so far he is being a perfect gentleman in action but I realize he may be testing also and I am leaning back and being demure.

    Oh crap! I just heard his phone. He’s getting a text…

  173.  #173Radlove on September 10, 2012 at 7:40 pm

    A friend told me to check out “Traumatic Bonding”.

    Scary. Of all the stuff I’ve read, this feels closest to what I experienced with R in 2009. It goes hand in hand with the Stolkholm Syndrome.

    I think he has changed since February 2012, but I am not sure yet.

    Victims and Survivors of Psychopaths

    from victim to survivor

    Traumatic Bonding

    with 323 comments

    Traumatic bonding is “strong emotional ties that develop between two persons where one person intermittently harasses, beats, threatens, abuses, or intimidates the other.” (Dutton & Painter, 1981). Several conditions have been identified that must be present for a traumatic bond to occur.

    –(1). There must be an imbalance of power, with one person more in control of key aspects of the relationship, such as setting themselves up as the “authority” through such things as controlling the finances, or making most of the relationship decisions, or using threats and intimidations, so the relationship has become lopsided.

    –(2). The abusive behavior is sporadic in nature. It is characterized by intermittent reinforcement, which means there is the alternating of highly intense positives (such as intense kindness or affection) and the negatives of the abusive behavior.

    –(3). The victim engages in denial of the abuse for emotional self- protection. In severe abuse (this can be psychological or physical), one form of psychological protection strategy is dissociation, where the victim experiences the abuse as if it is not happening to them, but as if they are outside their body watching the scene unfold (like watching a movie). Dissociative states allow the victim to compartmentalize the abusive aspects of the relationship in order to focus on the positive aspects.

    The use of denial and distancing oneself from the abuse are forms of what is called cognitive dissonance. In abusive relationships this means that what is happening to the victim is so horrible, so far removed from their thoughts and expectations of the world, that it is “dissonant” or “out of tune” or “at odds” with their pre-existing expectations and reality. Since the victim feels powerless to change the situation, they rely on emotional strategies to try to make it less dissonant, to try to somehow make it fit. To cope with the contradicting behaviors of the abuser, and to survive the abuse, the person literally has to change how they perceive reality. Studies also show a person is more loyal and committed to a person or situation that is difficult, uncomfortable, or even humiliating, and the more the victim has invested in the relationship, the more they need to justify their position. Cognitive dissonance is a powerful “self-preservation” mechanism which can completely distort and override the truth, with the victim developing a tolerance for the abuse and “normalizing” the abusers behavior, despite evidence to the contrary.

    –(4). The victim masks that the abuse is happening, may not have admitted it to anyone, not even themselves.

    Trauma bonding makes it easier for a victim to survive within the relationship, but it severely undermines the victims self-structures, undermining their ability to accurately evaluate danger, and impairs their ability to perceive of alternatives to the situation.

    Once a trauma bond is established it becomes extremely difficult for the victim to break free of the relationship. The way humans respond to trauma is thought to have a biological basis and reactions to trauma was first described a century ago, with the term “railroad spine” being used. Another term used has been “shell shocked”.

    Victims overwhelmed with terror suffer from an overload of their system, and to be able to function they must distort reality. They often shut down emotionally, and sometimes later describe themselves as having felt “robotic”, intellectually knowing what happened, but feeling frozen or numb and unable to take action. A victim must feel safe and out of “survival mode” before they will be able to make cognitive changes.

    Many victims feel the compulsion to tell and retell the events of the trauma in an attempt to come to terms with what happened to them and to try to integrate it, reaching out to others for contact, safety, and stability. Other victims react in an opposite manner, withdrawing into a shell of self-imposed isolation. The trauma bond can persist even after the victim leaves the relationship, with it sometimes taking months, or even years, for them to completely break the bond.

  174.  #174Vi on September 10, 2012 at 7:41 pm

    A couple of days ago there was an ‘accident’ between me and my man when he suddenly withdrew and got shut down and defensive and I shared that it felt weird and bad to me and is there anything I have to know? and he said nothing. Okay. He has a right to keep silence and also act like nothing has happened and still want to pat me or kiss. Okay, it’s his business. So I turned to my feelings and noticed me worrying and feeling sad and angry and also – used ! And that at the same time I kinda pine for him and then I thought. I just can not entrust myself to a person I am feeling such feelings with. Why should I pine for someone I feel this way? Why should I want sex or attention from a person I feel bad with and not cared?? I can’t entrust myself even for a while to anyone I am feeling this way with. I HAVE to feel secure and cared to want a man. Otherwise he is my practice material. Thanks goodness I am at the place where I want and HAVE to feel secure and cared for! I don’t feel longing him any more. And today my little girl feels safe and secure for the first time for the last few years. And that feels awesome. No matter what.

  175.  #175Radlove on September 10, 2012 at 7:45 pm

    This last part, “Many victims feel the compulsion to tell and retell the events of the trauma in an attempt to come to terms with what happened to them and to try to integrate it, reaching out to others for contact, safety, and stability” is what I think I have been doing on the blog.

    I am watching the relationship based on pain. The last time he hurt me was in Feb. Now he is just leaving me on my own and spending little time with me. But that could have to do with me being an hour away. And if he really just wants friendship. So I can’t classify that as hurt.

    So I am just watching him, hoping that my theory is right that he is not like that anymore.

  176.  #176Heart on September 10, 2012 at 7:50 pm

    Rad-love – You are in an Imaginary Relationship.
    There is no Traumatic Bonding going on….There is Nothing going on.
    THere is no Masculine Energy coming your way from R.
    There is Nothing….no love, no kissing, no affection, no shared memories…NOthing.
    Stop trying to Understand it…There is Nothing to Understand.
    You are Traumatic Bonding With Yourself.

    I know this is harsh…but I feel frustrated.

  177.  #177Turquoise on September 10, 2012 at 7:51 pm

    Hi sirens,

    Oh SA, what a mess… a flood! I’d suggest you not go over there… but easier said than done. I’d want to if I were you. I might even convince myself that the flood happened to give me the opportunity to spend time with him. Hey, I did do that… I encouraged C to stay with me when he wasn’t getting along with his family. Hmm, did not go so well for me.

    I’m feeling a little clearer about what I want from a man. I want exclusivity. I want someone to come home to. I want my person, the one that’s my other half.
    I don’t want to rush into anything with anyone. Actually taking a relationship to the living together/marriage level, sounds almost like it will never happen for me. I don’t know how many good things would have to happen over such a great length of time, to convince me that was a wonderful and smart idea.

    I feel safe in my house, half paid for by my ex. I don’t have to worry about having a relationship to get me to a better place financially….. my ex provides that for me. That should take a lot of pressure off of me, feeling that I need to meet someone. Maybe it has. I hate wasting my time, and most of the men I date I think enough of the right qualities I’m looking for. I’m just not drawn to them to be with forever. FW brought up a story about a woman who still felt so connected to her ex, that she put off any real possibility of starting something new. I know I do that. I talk about my ex, some good, some bad, I explain my living situation which is enough to make any sane man wonder…. oh I’m a mess.

    I’ll be 39 in 3 months. I’m going to take these next 3 months and really figure out what I want, what to do about it, and focus on that.

    I really really like Mr. Conversation, and I wish things were different than they are. I’m so happy he has a job interview tomrorow that he’s really excited about. Life is looking up for him. I don’t know if we’ll ever be on the same page and want the same thing at the same time…. but I’m keeping him as a friend. He fills a big void in my life and we help each other a lot. I w to surround myself with people who make me feel good, are really present in my life, and that I enjoy.

    BUT, and here is the big BUT, I’m open to who ever else may show up in my life, that might want what I want (if I ever really figure that out).

    I leaned forward and texted Tux, he replied a few times, but just asked about my weekend and said he was working on reports. He said he wanted to see me again, but hasn’t asked. He contacted me last Thursday…. same type of conversation.

    I know I’m rambling… lol, but mind feels all over the place! sheesh. I keep hearing from these really young guys on POF. I’m wondering if I should be open to that. It doesn’t feel like a good fit to me, but am I over thinking it? I don’t know.

    I do know, I miss having sex. I want a committed relationship with a lot of sex. I want consistent, exclusive, romantic, loving rex. How do I get it?

  178.  #178Radlove on September 10, 2012 at 7:55 pm


    176 – That feels really bad to hear. I feel attacked.

  179.  #179Heart on September 10, 2012 at 8:12 pm

    178 – Rad-love – I feel angry. I believe You are a tiny bit abusive to R.
    At any rate -you and R are no where close to an abusive relationship like the one you described in the post. You and R do not have Any Kind of Relationship going on At All. There is

    You put your time and energy and Entire being…into Figuring out and Understanding — Nothing.

    He is not going to Come Around.
    He does not want a relationship with you.
    It Is Not the Schizophrenia….It’s You.
    He Doesn’t like you like that….
    He’s Not Into You…

  180.  #180Radlove on September 10, 2012 at 8:17 pm


    179 – Gag, I feel angry being treated like pond scum by another Siren. I am not going to read your posts anymore. I feel completely misunderstood and disrespected.

  181.  #181Heart on September 10, 2012 at 8:19 pm

    Radlove – I write that with Anger and with Love.
    I want you to Be happy Radlove..with a man! I want flowers for you on your Birthday and someone to cuddle and watch a scary movie with…I want you in a pretty dress and mermaid hair and a man with eyes that lights up when he sees you….
    I feel fed up of your obsession and delusion…
    I feel scared too…

  182.  #182RiverGirl on September 10, 2012 at 8:24 pm

    Heart @ 176 and 179

    Heart, I don’t want to respond as a defence of Radlove as I believe she knows best how it feels to be spoken to like you have in those posts. I do feel triggered though, your words read as controlling and masculine energy to me. Is this reflecting something about yourself? The strength of your response makes me wonder if this is about you and not Radlove.
    I feel a bit annoyed with myself, as I realise that by drawing this to your attention, I am also acting out of a masculine energy. I’m trying to find ways of expressing without making wrong.

  183.  #183Heart on September 10, 2012 at 8:29 pm

    Radlove – I feel bad. You’re not pond scum Radlove…I enjoy reading your posts. I like it when your playful and funny. I feel tiggered by your posts on R.

    I felt like being Brave and being tough towards you.
    I feel hopeful this approach will help.
    I feel sad to lose your online communication.

  184.  #184Heart on September 10, 2012 at 8:30 pm

    Rivergirl- yes this is about me..I feel scared I end up like Radlove.

  185.  #185Memulo on September 10, 2012 at 8:32 pm


    Stay strong! You are doing great. To listen to him it’s like there was some bad luck or a mean witch that keep you apart, but in fact it’s all his doing:) Don’t forget! He is all sweet now but it can turn in a sec if you forget your boundaries. The only way you reconsider is if you are asked on a proper date and talked to about engagement!

  186.  #186Memulo on September 10, 2012 at 8:37 pm

    I am leaning back. My plan is to collect FM’s and tell him my do and don’t wants when (if) he contacts me. Mostly around being taken care of. Seriously, I was almost fainting last night waiting for him to take me to dinner;) Did not go buy any food because I thought we were going out. Ended up eating a cake that I made for us at 7am on Sunday. It was the only thing I had in the fridge. Don’t get me wrong, it was a good cake lol

  187.  #187Memulo on September 10, 2012 at 8:39 pm

    #176 Heart,

    Absolutely, I used to do it to myself. Real romantic communication feels soooo much different!!

  188.  #188Turquoise on September 10, 2012 at 8:40 pm

    Radlove, it feels scary and frustrating to me that you relate your relationship with R to traumatic bonding. When I think of victims of those kinds of relationships, I don’t understand how you compare to what they would endure to what your situation was. That feels like a lapse in reality to me.

    I understand that he terribly hurt your feelings and you were very disappointed. Why does it have to be so much more than that? Why does it have to be emotional warfare, traumatic bonding, emotionally raped, you as the victim? This is where the frustration sets in, that if you truly believe these things, how in the world can you go back through this cycle again and again, that you love him so much and want to be with him? It feels like you want it both ways. You want the support and encouragement on the blog to persue and continue a relationship with him when he’s being receptive…. but when he walks away from you or cuts back his attention, you want to prove that you are the victim and he is abusing you.

    PLEASE stop. Please take every single word he says to you at face value. Don’t read more into it. Don’t tell yourself he really means something else. Don’t tell yourself he’s testing you. Just accept it and CHOOSE yourself.

  189.  #189RiverGirl on September 10, 2012 at 8:46 pm

    Heart, I find when I have fears about how I will be treated, or that I will end up settling for less than I want, it helps to give some thought to where my boundaries are. I try to give myself clarity and imagine senarios that might feel bad and how I might respond. Then I feel stronger as I have worked out in advance how I will respond if that comes up. It helps me trust myself to be my own guardian angel. xo

  190.  #190Heart on September 10, 2012 at 8:50 pm

    #182 – Rivergirl -oh btw thanks so much for the feedback (I’m still feeling my way and exploring through Siren Island) …I realized I had this tight rigid energy inside me…I’m making a mental note to explore these things and improve my communication. Feeling grateful.
    Still, I stand by what I wrote to Radlove though..

  191.  #191Heart on September 10, 2012 at 8:52 pm

    #189 – Rivergirl – wow….good idea. I’ll try it. I feel curious to explore this.

  192.  #192RiverGirl on September 10, 2012 at 8:53 pm

    Radlove, just wanted to say that over the last few threads I have noticed that you have an amazing capacity to take care of yourself here on the blog. I admire your willingness to listen to advice but also to speak out when it feels harsh….many others would blow up faced with the same criticism. xo

  193.  #193Memulo on September 10, 2012 at 8:53 pm

    #189 – Yes, I think FW is healing this way too and very successfully;)

  194.  #194RiverGirl on September 10, 2012 at 8:55 pm

    Heart, we are all just fumbling in the dark!
    (((Sirens))) 🙂

  195.  #195Heart on September 10, 2012 at 9:02 pm

    #192 – I agree…

  196.  #196Heart on September 10, 2012 at 9:12 pm

    In other news : I have still not heard from CudG.
    I get a sick feeling in my stomach when I think about it.
    It’s so shocking to Feel his energy just go away.
    It’s been days…this is so Unlike him.
    I wonder was my response too cold, too curt?
    It’s ok…I learning to move with the ebb and flow…but I miss him.

  197.  #197Laughing Goddess on September 10, 2012 at 9:54 pm

    Don’t Play the Victim Game
    By Robert Firestone, Ph.D. on September 30, 2009 – 11:42am
    In Psychological Defenses in Everyday Life, (1989), I described a patient who complained that her husband was habitually late for dinner. Dinner was ready at 6:30, but he often came in as late as 8:30 without calling to let her know that he would be late. She asked me, “Is that right?” in a tone that implied that she was the victim of wrongdoing. I tried to explain to her that the key question wasn’t whether it was right or not, although one would tend to agree with her in principle. What she said may have been correct, but in any case, it was irrelevant. I wanted her to see that she was viewing the situation as a passive victim, which was neither productive nor adaptive.

    Many people think they are entitled to good treatment. The truth is that they are neither entitled nor not entitled to it. The significant issues are what is going on and how do they feel about it. This woman would have been better off actively facing the facts of the situation and acknowledging her emotional reactions rather than personally judging it and feeling victimized by it.

    If you are being robbed, you don’t sit around thinking, “This shouldn’t be happening to me. It isn’t right.” Instead, you react. You may defend yourself, call the police or try to run away. Constructive action is the opposite of victimized brooding.

    The woman whose husband was late for dinner had every right to feel angry and to consider practical ac¬tion if she wished, but to try to justify feeling victimized was maladaptive and ultimately meaningless.

    Even in the most extreme situation, such as a concentration camp, feeling victimized is not adaptive: Feeling your anger, planning an escape, attempting to survive any and all of these courses of action are preferable to indulging powerless, victimized feelings. Your attitude is a vital factor in determining whether you will survive or perish, succeed or fail in life. Viktor Frankl contended that many of the survivors of German concentration camps were able to endure because they refused to give in to feeling victimized. Instead, although stripped of all their rights and possessions, they used one remaining freedom to sustain their spirit; the freedom to choose what attitude or position they would take in relation to the horror they faced. “It was the freedom to bear oneself ‘this way or that,’ and there was a ‘this or that.'” (Frankl, 1954/1967, p. 94)

  198.  #198Laughing Goddess on September 10, 2012 at 9:56 pm

    Feeling very curious about victim mentality so I did some research and came across these articles, which I find very interesting.

  199.  #199Emerson on September 10, 2012 at 9:57 pm

    I love this article! And i love the author Lauren’s picture she’s a gorgeous hottie!!!


    KJ I’m sorry to hear all that! Wow quite a story. Reminds me of my toxicEX. He would lie and cheat and then BEG me back and promise blah blah blah and next thing you know I catch him in a car with a girl and lied again. I made a scene too LOL he was getting out of her car and I got out of mine and went right up to her drivers seat like what the hell is this!!! And she took off! Poor girl. Lol and toxicEX and I were left standing there and I was furious!!!!
    This is after I gave him a fresh start and a chance to build trust with me. Omg I hated him that day and hated myself for being “stupid” although I know I’m not.
    Anyway trust is a hard thing to rebuild and he ruined it for me once and for all with that final straw.
    It was hard to let go cuz I over him soooo much. I still do omg!!!

  200.  #200Emerson on September 10, 2012 at 9:57 pm

    I love this article! And i love the author Lauren’s picture she’s a gorgeous hottie!!!


    KJ I’m sorry to hear all that! Wow quite a story. Reminds me of my toxicEX. He would lie and cheat and then BEG me back and promise blah blah blah and next thing you know I catch him in a car with a girl and lied again. I made a scene too LOL he was getting out of her car and I got out of mine and went right up to her drivers seat like what the hell is this!!! And she took off! Poor girl. Lol and toxicEX and I were left standing there and I was furious!!!!
    This is after I gave him a fresh start and a chance to build trust with me. Omg I hated him that day and hated myself for being “stupid” although I know I’m not.
    Anyway trust is a hard thing to rebuild and he ruined it for me once and for all with that final straw.
    It was hard to let go cuz I loved him soooo much. I still do omg!!!

  201.  #201Emerson on September 10, 2012 at 9:59 pm

    Sorry I posted twice there was a typo at he end I meant loved him so much lol

  202.  #202Laughing Goddess on September 10, 2012 at 10:01 pm

    The Line between Victims and Abusers
    By Steven Stosny on May 15, 2009 – 6:52am
    Victim identity is focus on damages suffered at the hands of other people. The desire to be identified as a victim creates a sense of entitlement and a motive to devalue anyone who does not offer special recognition and validation of victim status or compensation for it.

    In our Age of Entitlement, it is often difficult for friends and therapists to detect abuse in intimate relationships and to discern who the primary abuser is. This is especially hard in cases of emotional abuse, with no objective evidence like police reports or medical records. The following characteristics of primary abusers and victims are not fool-proof, but I have found them to be highly reliable, based on the dramatic change of attitudes by the end of treatment.

    Research and clinical experience clearly indicates that abusers are likely to:

    • Underreport, hide, minimize, or justify their abusive behavior

    • Describe themselves as victims

    • Feel abused when their partners disagree with them or don’t do what they want

    • Label their partners’ behavior as abusive

    • Attribute malevolent intent to their partners’ positive behavior (manipulative, deceptive)

    • Pathologize their partners (emotional or personality disorder, incompetence)

    • Use negative labels (nag, irrational, hysterical, lazy, unreliable)

    • Have great difficulty describing their partners’ perspectives

    • Show little or no compassion

    • Exhibit self-righteousness

    Research and clinical evidence traditionally has shown that victims were likely to:

    • Underreport or hide their partners’ abusive behavior
    • Not label obviously abusive behavior as abuse
    • Blame themselves in part for the abuse they reveal
    • Make excuses for the abuser’s behavior
    • Bend over backwards to see the abuser’s perspective
    • Describe the abuser at least partially in sympathetic terms
    • Exhibit self-doubt

    How the line got blurred: Emotional Reactivity and the Victim Identity Movement

    Abuse victims, like anyone in relationships with high emotional reactivity, build automatic defense systems, which include preemptive strikes – if you expect to be criticized, stonewalled, or demeaned, you may well do it first. Victims can easily develop a reactive narcissism that makes seem like abusers.

    But emotional reactivity between intimate partners, although more frequent in the Age of Entitlement, is a small part of the story. A more potent variable in blurring the line between victim and abuser is the reactivity of a social movement.

    The victim protection movement began as a noble attempt to counteract the most insidious aspect of the abusive dynamic – blaming the victim, which has the effect of making the victim feel ashamed of being abused. But as is the case with all effective social movements, the pendulum has swung too far the other way. We now have a victim identity movement, fueled by an industry of self-help authors and advocates, that has conferred a certain status to being a victim and thereby blurred the line between victims and abusers.

  203.  #203Emerson on September 10, 2012 at 10:03 pm

    197 very interesting LG!!

    Oh and I’ve been taking my vitamin B

  204.  #204Laughing Goddess on September 10, 2012 at 10:08 pm

    One more, but I’ll just post the link for anyone who may be interested.

    I feel so sad when I interact with someone who is in victim mentality, sad and frustrated.

    I’d like to come to terms with it. To find a balance where I don’t feel so triggered.

  205.  #205Emerson on September 10, 2012 at 10:10 pm

    I am starting to think about recycledCD every day now. I don’t know why. I’m sure he has so many women.

    Why am i still hooked on his memory??? Hes so “emo” and damaged. He talks about the past a lot. I actually felt bored with him the last few times we hung out. I think I miss the old recycled. He used to be more fun.

    I haven’t felt that spark with anyone. Feeling BLAh

  206.  #206Laughing Goddess on September 10, 2012 at 10:11 pm

    Yay Emerson! have you noticed a difference in how you feel?

    Also, if you plan on having kids, it’s really great to start building up your folic acid now and it’s in B-complex vitey’s…double bonus 🙂

  207.  #207Emerson on September 10, 2012 at 10:13 pm

    204 omg my mom is such a victim and likes to do victimized brooding rather than constructive action.
    Drives me nuts to see her like that

  208.  #208Laughing Goddess on September 10, 2012 at 10:16 pm

    207 I feel so frustrated witnessing it.

  209.  #209Emerson on September 10, 2012 at 10:16 pm

    Yes LG I do feel better with the vit B!

  210.  #210Emerson on September 10, 2012 at 10:17 pm

    My mom and my sister both like to remind people that they are victims

  211.  #211Emerson on September 10, 2012 at 10:23 pm

    I know sirens are trying to help you not harm you.

    I do feel that your perception is real to you
    and I am not there to see it so I can’t comment if it’s actually “real” or not.

  212.  #212Laughing Goddess on September 10, 2012 at 10:27 pm

    Emerson: I have a feeling you are going to meet someone who has all the great qualities of Recycled and then some. Did you ever use any of those fm’s about texting with Text Cd?

  213.  #213Laughing Goddess on September 10, 2012 at 10:31 pm

    The thing I was looking for, which I didn’t really find is how to support someone who is in victim mentality. I feel open to hearing suggestions that anyone might have.

    I have a few people in my life who I see in that space and I feel so unsure of what to say. 🙁

  214.  #214Laughing Goddess on September 10, 2012 at 10:34 pm

    We made some chicken soup from scratch in the crock pot and I am sipping on the broth right now. I feels soooo nourishing.

  215.  #215Laughing Goddess on September 10, 2012 at 10:47 pm

    I’m going to look at this as a mirror-type situation. If I’m getting triggered by something, then there must be some part of my life where I am doing the same thing. So I am going to be extra-vigilant and pay attention to where I might be in victim mentality.

    I feel really excited to discover this! It’s like detective work! And then I can replace it with a more empowered perspective.

    I feel excited!

  216.  #216Tam on September 10, 2012 at 11:29 pm

    196 Heart…I am pretty sure he will be in contact, I have always been surprised at the male timeline. It may not even have anything to do with what you said…
    You might be surprise, you might now. I have a feeling you will be 😉

  217.  #217Tam on September 10, 2012 at 11:29 pm

    TYPOOOO ‘you might be surprised, you might not’

  218.  #218Heart on September 10, 2012 at 11:34 pm

    Tam – thanks for comforting me…earlier, I kinda had that rabbit-feeling you mentioned ….and I have a sick feeling in my stomach….it’s nerves, it’s fear, it’s anticipation..

    I feel scared he lost interested….I feel scared he’s still interested….
    These are all just emotions…

  219.  #219Tam on September 10, 2012 at 11:43 pm

    oh Heart, yes, btw, I am trying to keep my heart open for sure. I have men and dates lined up.
    They are all new guys so I it’s difficult to get overly excited, but yes. Cuban guy is already possessive and over the top but that may be a mentality difference, guess Cuban and German are opposite poles..haha!!
    To be honest, it is more important to feel good with myself, because I can rush into something with a man to ‘make me feel better about myself’ – but I do not want to go there anymore.

    Forest Siren, oh yes, I know that unless he has someone else, he will always try to step up in his little way. Stick head out of shell, retract back in, stick head out a bit more…tortoise. It is totally up to me how long I can deal with that….at the end of the day he is still going to move away, so I am wary.
    I know that his personal dreams are more important to him than love…so I do not expect anything at all, even when he does step up, it may only be temporary. What’s worse, he may only step up because he KNOWS that he is going soon – so it’s safe for him. But not safe for me. I need to look after me here, perhaps that is where the anxiousness comes in.
    We do have a bond and it is up to us to define where that is going, if he doesn’t step up fully, I am not going to drag this out.
    It feels scary. I don’t want to get my hopes up.

    This morning I woke up feeling at peace. It has been a while. The anxiousness is subdued right now and that’s good.

  220.  #220Tam on September 10, 2012 at 11:45 pm

    218..oh Heart I had to laugh!!
    ‘I feel scared he is not interested…I feel scared he is interested’
    Yes, that sooooo resonates.
    I figured it was my fear of intimacy….I don’t want to be scared anymore, like FW said we have the power to let go of any situation that does not serve us anymore. We have the power. No need to be scared.
    (I am telling myself 😉

  221.  #221Heart on September 10, 2012 at 11:52 pm

    Tam – well all in all – the trip sounds like fun! Looking forward to hearing about it. You seem to know Mr.P’s pattern really well…

    and thanks I’ll try to remember I have the power…

  222.  #222Tam on September 10, 2012 at 11:57 pm

    Thanks Heart..still stuck here for another 2 1/2 weeks.. but it’s safe 😉

  223.  #223Daria on September 11, 2012 at 2:05 am

    yeah the article on the ‘abuser/ abused’ behavior i feel triggered from

    im feeling sad

    i feel that guilt i feel it ache in my lower chakra

    i feel a sense of helplessness

    i want to ‘make excuses’ for . i want to reconnect

    i dont want to disconnect

    theres so many reasons to connect

    i feel a guilt

    i feel a sense of ‘duty’ to the kids

    i feel bad about myself not being there for them

    i feel woozy like the feeings will overtake me

    i want to heal this

    i feel hopeless

    i dont think this will ever heal

    i feel down, downturned head

    i want to heal this

    that would feel like
    HUGE ENERMOUS JOYOUS ENERGY RINGING OUT MY BODY AND SPREADING ME OPEN to the ends of me… stretching me horizontally and around

    that would feel scary and exhilarating

    i feel a bit smily

    i feel frowny

    i love my smile i love my frown

    i feel excited to have had a glimpse of what it will feel like to have this healed

    i intend to have that

    stealthy sneaky to not wake up the NVS

    i am asking for divine help with this

    thank u

  224.  #224Daria on September 11, 2012 at 2:25 am

    :: Let Your Love Shine ::

    Love is like the sun: every member of your family
    can fully receive the warmth of your love without
    depriving the others.

    Only when you position them in front of or behind
    one another does love seem exclusive — giving to
    some while casting a shadow on others.

    Love shines *through* you rather than *from* you,
    which means you can never really run out of it. When
    loving your children, your partner, and yourself,
    there is no limit on how much Love you can shine.

    The more you release thoughts of limitation and
    practice *knowing* that Love is infinite — even
    when others are temporarily focused on the shadows
    — the more you will experience parenthood as a
    sunny, joyful, empowering journey.

  225.  #225Rebecca on September 11, 2012 at 2:29 am

    99: ruth says:

    slow and steady is how to do a marathon

    Running has kept me sane too

    Ahhh Ruth I need these words right now. I did my usual little jog yesterday and I am feeling awful today and I honestly don’t know why.

    The jog is only about 3 miles and I do it all the time. I felt really hot.. Today I ache badly…

  226.  #226Daria on September 11, 2012 at 2:31 am

    i feel sad i hear whiny voice “i want someone to do eft w me 🙁 mhmrrrrmrrrrr”

    then i hear a cold kinda voice “that’s not gonna happen”

    and i feel numb

    wow that feels kinda exciting to see adn write down

  227.  #227Daria on September 11, 2012 at 2:33 am

    then the kinda walled voice goes “so shutup and get on with your day. this is how life is. you gotta do everything yourself. pull yourself up by your bootstraps”””



    compassion to both voices wanting to help me!

    i see your intent

    we have permission to shift now and talk to each other and in a way that feels good to all of us!

    im here for all of us

    ima safe place

    i feel sad kinda squeezy at my low sternum
    i feel jerky

  228.  #228Rebecca on September 11, 2012 at 2:34 am

    I feel naked without the co-dependants in my life

    It feels scary going it alone and trying to forge new ‘grown-up’ relationships

    I feel shaky, I don’t feel like I can do it


  229.  #229Rebecca on September 11, 2012 at 2:44 am

    I just feel like letting it all out today..

    I feel run down…

    I’m trying to push through..

  230.  #230Daria on September 11, 2012 at 3:02 am

    im working on healing that shaming stuff and all that abuse stuff by tapping to Margaret Lynch’s 2nd chakra video from 7 levels of wealth

    feels powerful

    im feeling moved to say the least, more like awash in waves

    i also use this EFT resistance to change all the time in the mornings I really notice a diff in how much im able to shift by doing it

  231.  #231Daria on September 11, 2012 at 3:03 am

    Rebecca – i would stop trying to push through and instead let myself sink into my feelings, do the drop to the knees tool, see if tears come up

  232.  #232Daria on September 11, 2012 at 3:11 am

    i feel kinda blissful moving all this energy

  233.  #233Heart on September 11, 2012 at 3:14 am

    Sirens – so like CuddleyGrinch posted on my FB congratulating me on the thing I got….
    But he still hasnt responding to my mail….
    heh? …don’t know what to make of that…

  234.  #234Tam on September 11, 2012 at 3:30 am

    Heart, for him it was easier to do the fb thing, perhaps he is still mulling over what to reply to your email, or perhaps he does not feel like replying to it.

    He certainly wants to make contact though… 😉

  235.  #235Rebecca on September 11, 2012 at 3:37 am

    @231: Daria

    Great advice! I will try…

  236.  #236Daria on September 11, 2012 at 4:02 am

    i feel nauseaus and exhausted and dizzy tapping this

    i feel excited knowing im healing this

    this will feel soooo wonderful to be healed

    oh my wow

    so much healing from this

    ive rewound and tapped back the first tapping like 5 times now

    on to number 6

    and more

    each time i feel more relief more aha and more depth

  237.  #237Daria on September 11, 2012 at 4:03 am

    im jerking my head so hard and its making me feel fuzzy headed… i feel concerned im giving myself minor concussions

    im choosing to believe its healing and my brain is rerouuting in ways that feel healing, not

  238.  #238Daria on September 11, 2012 at 4:04 am

    not not

  239.  #239Daria on September 11, 2012 at 4:04 am

    Magic Goddess is healing herself

  240.  #240Daria on September 11, 2012 at 4:10 am

    im gonna raise children that are Gods and Goddesses

  241.  #241Daria on September 11, 2012 at 4:12 am

    and worshipped and treated that way

    i want to heal my fear of the word worship

    and the association with one person beating themself up and calling themselves worthless and unworthy

    worship is respect

    not requiring putting down or enslaving another

  242.  #242Daria on September 11, 2012 at 4:16 am

    gently gently

  243.  #243Tam on September 11, 2012 at 4:30 am

    My anxiety is going…and slowly replaced by a warm feeling. I feel all will be ok in the end no matter what happens, because I trust me and I kind of trust him too.
    And I have been writing lots of emails to my other CD’s to take my mind off one man 😉

  244.  #244Daria on September 11, 2012 at 4:35 am

    bathed in warm 2nd chakra energy


    more healing

  245.  #245Siren Angel on September 11, 2012 at 4:45 am

    oh Sirens!

    Well, I got out of bed last night to go to the washroom and he called me in his bedroom… We cuddled and just took long moments to breathe each other. He did not push it but told me how he had missed me so much and that he would sleep with a pillow to pretend it’s me and with my silk nightie in the bed to smell me! He kept telling me how wonderful I am. We spoke about our connection and I told him I just want to be in his arms and feel that connection. And we were on our way to sex when I told him again that I don’t want to be just sleeping together and no commitment. We talked a lot. He doesn’t think it will work with the kids and he says he doesnt want to go back there now because they are adjusting well without me and he doesnt want to confuse them. He says maybe in 6 months to 1 year when the custody is through. I spoke a lot about what I want. We both agreed we revel in our connection and (I am embarassed to say) we agreed to see each other without the kids for now, (so as not to hurt them or confuse them) BUT with a lot of contact, weekends together here and trips…. I am still not sure how I feel about that totally, but the thing is, I told him then that without a commitment on the table I would want to keep my options open and possibly date other men. He said that would be hard but he agreed. And I told him that I would only have sex with him but that I don’t feel comfortable with him dating other women, and he agreed.

    In any case, this is the situation now. I have to say, I have strong doubts he would have called or leaned forward had the flood that caused me to sleep over not happened. He said he cried and it was so hard on him and I can see he was so hurt but this is really all for the kids.

    I do feel curious about a text message he got close to 11pm.

  246.  #246Siren Angel on September 11, 2012 at 4:48 am

    Heart @233,

    It’s much easier and ‘on the moment’ to comment on FB. I would not compare to an email, so no worries.

  247.  #247Linda on September 11, 2012 at 4:49 am

    The subject of this orginal post is golden information

    I have listenend to Lauren Frances before on a free telecast forum. I like her style. It puts me in the feel of a femine coated, smart savy woman.

    I recently have had several CD’s. The quality of the men has tremendously increased… my online dating profile has stirred a new pot of men LOL None of them is of real interest to me, but I am practicing and listening to their messages for me. This part is fun! I used to find it laborious. I am also investing myself in creating new girlfriend friendships. Something that I have never done.

    Listening during any interaction with people is so vital. I however LOVE this question to ask now. It will feel like I have done my homework before I do another meet and greet or a new CD. Men… all of them except one I have met do reveal themselves on the first meeting. I cant wait to try this new question. It is going to save time and an hour of listening to gather scoop on a man.

    I do have only one CD that I had any interest in seeing again. “Older Busy Man” called me Sunday and we met up again. He talks a mile a minute and over thinks everything!… Some of the things he told me he thinks… like when we were eating dinner, he said, I am sitting here thinking about how to entertain you after we leave here? HAHAH too funny to me. Also said because I went to play cards with my girlfriends later the same night I met him that I am a person who wants to go and do all the time and would not be happy to relax at home. HAHAH…. poor overfuctioning, thinking man. Funny how he has let me in on his assumptions about me that are not true but this is what he believes about me and that is his truth. Makes me wonder about myself and assumptions I make…. ANYWAY…He feels like is a very nice giving man but does give off all the signals of an emotionally unavailable man. He keeps wanting to kiss me… these deep long kisses. He is testing me… I can feel it…. But really, a make out kissing session and reallying getting into it when all he has done is talk and talk and it is nothing that I can attach to emotionally feels performing to me. I love kissing but not under those conditions. I like him but he is not really the man for me. He uses his work schedule and tight economy as his reasons for being the way he and blah blah blah as reasons he does not, cant, l wont… ahhhh I get it… REALLY he likes company is a bit lonely, aging and set in his ways… wants a person around when he wants them around etc etc. He commented that he liked the fact that I did not get all bent out of shape that he did not contact me all week after we met Which gave me the opportunity to say…” It feels very nice to feel thought of and contacted” but my opinion is that a man doesnt call because he does not WANT to” and smiled and went back to drinking my adult beverage. He said I am just too busy.. yet his phone was sitting out on the table…. He failed my test! and I passed his FUNNY

    Listening has become my best tool. Men do tell you all about them and their beliefs right away. THis new question will become a part of my new meet and greet agenda.

    Hugs Sirens

    PS. I had a meet and greet date with the CD I called “HallmarkGreetingCard Man” He did everything right, but he simply is not my type. I told him and am onto the next “”CD” It feels good to be choosie and stay on my bridge.

  248.  #248Tam on September 11, 2012 at 4:50 am

    Siren Angel…..ooohhhhh….how does that arrangement feel for you?
    Because the first thing that came to my mind was ‘friends with benefits’ (I am sorry). If you can handle that then why not, but if you are already worrying about him receiving texts from other women then wouldn’t it be in your best interests to get your energy away from there, let him miss you and let him work it out WITH kids and everything….because he wants to hide you from his kids now.
    Is that really a step forward?
    I feel worried about you.

  249.  #249Siren Angel on September 11, 2012 at 5:01 am


    I know… I told him I don’t want to be ‘friends with benefits’ and that the possibility of marriage has to be on the table. He says he doesn’t know if that can happen again but that there is that ‘possibility’.

    I have to say though, that this is how we got back together last time and that I had really fast results with FMs making the relationship evolve.

    The thing is, he is so stubborn and can be so hard on himself when it comes to his kids, I believe he would not contact again feeling he is doing what is best for his kids. He doesn’t want the fights we had on vacation. He did mention not even wanting to date anyone else or looking to date right now or a relationship, not having he energy for it.

    I did have a tendency to lean forward a bit because I wanted to clarify the situation, but worked hard on leaning back as soon as I felt i was going to the ‘convincer’ side.

    I know he loves me but I feel so confused now about everything else.

  250.  #250Siren Angel on September 11, 2012 at 5:04 am


  251.  #251Memulo on September 11, 2012 at 5:10 am

    #248 Tam – yes, I second that.

  252.  #252Tam on September 11, 2012 at 5:11 am

    Siren Angel, he will move heaven and earth if he truly loves and misses you.
    Right now, you would be making it easy for him to do the bare minimum to keep you around.
    But if you believe you can turn the situation around, well you know better…for me it looks a return to the pattern of ‘getting together’ and ‘breaking up’….I really would not want that for you.
    But I sure know how difficult it is when you have feelings for someone. What can I say? You’ve got to follow your heart even if Tam thinks it’s a bad idea.

  253.  #253Tam on September 11, 2012 at 5:11 am

    Oh hi Memulo, how’s things??

  254.  #254Siren Angel on September 11, 2012 at 5:12 am

    Arghhh… I wish I knew how to navigate around this one.

    I am the one who had suggested during the break-up that maybe just not seeing each other with the kids until things calm down would be beneficial, like we did last winter.

    Maybe this just can’t work because of the kids, and it’s a very sad and tragic situation but it does happen.

  255.  #255Tam on September 11, 2012 at 5:15 am

    254 – SA, I really do not believe it’s ‘because of’ the kids. It’s perhaps because he does not place emphasis on having a relationship right now because he wants to placate the kids. Then it’s because of HIM.

  256.  #256Siren Angel on September 11, 2012 at 5:19 am


    I am really trying to figure this out, and see things from all perspectives, and it is very painful, I am in tears in his bed now (he left for work).

    It is very difficult for us to be together without sex and our lives are so entwined with kids, that I am sure there would be a natural evolution back to what we had in time. The danger is in what may happen when I build those expectations and they take longer than I want to arrive.

    I am certain that if I saw the kids today, they would run and hug me. His impression is different I’m sure because he remembers things they said while they were being kids who want attention from their dad. I wish there was a way to make light of it all.

  257.  #257Memulo on September 11, 2012 at 5:23 am

    Oh SA…


    I believe there is a way. And that is to decide that you want all or nothing.

  258.  #258Belle on September 11, 2012 at 5:25 am

    184: Heart says:
    Rivergirl- yes this is about me..I feel scared I end up like Radlove.

    I felt a wave of gratitude wash through me…thank you thank you thank you for having the courage to say this!!

  259.  #259Siren Angel on September 11, 2012 at 5:25 am


    That is very well said ”SA, I really do not believe it’s ‘because of’ the kids. It’s perhaps because he does not place emphasis on having a relationship right now because he wants to placate the kids. Then it’s because of HIM.”

    You are right. He is tired of the disagreements and mentioned he has no energy for anything right now.

    Maybe I will take it easy tonight, still at his place tonight, but will lean back and observe.

  260.  #260Memulo on September 11, 2012 at 5:25 am


    Thanks for asking;)

    Not much is happening, I worked late last night and I did not write him back, because I didn’t feel his text required a response. Just being quiet and going about my stuff.

  261.  #261Siren Angel on September 11, 2012 at 5:26 am


    Thank you for the hug. I really do feel lost right now.

  262.  #262Tam on September 11, 2012 at 5:26 am

    (((SA))) Aw. I agree with Memulo though.
    I don’t think it is your responsibility to ‘make light of it all’, I believe it is your responsibility to take care of yourself, and in my humble opinion that would mean remove yourself from him until he figured out what he wants, because he does not seem to know what he wants.

  263.  #263Tam on September 11, 2012 at 5:27 am

    260 – thanks for the update Memulo 🙂

  264.  #264Memulo on September 11, 2012 at 5:28 am

    I am meeting a new lady friend tonight for drinks. We are neighbors and it felt so good when she asked me! She seems really nice too.

  265.  #265Memulo on September 11, 2012 at 5:30 am

    Yes SA, that is why I believe it is important to lean back and wait. Last week he actively said he wants to break up, now he is not sure but misses you, if to let him miss you more, perhaps he will come to the conclusion that he wants to make it work? What do you think?

  266.  #266Daria on September 11, 2012 at 5:32 am

    Body Language Do’s And Don’ts

    By Rori Raye

    Picture this: you’re getting ready for a first date. You’re thinking very carefully about what you want to say — you want to be interesting and come up with witty things that will engage him in deep conversation. That’s all good, but how you move and carry yourself in his presence sends a very strong message without you having to say anything at all.

    Men are attracted to the softness in us women. When we fully embrace our femininity, this is very attractive to a man and encourages him to take the masculine role to lead the relationship forward. This is where body language really comes into play. So the next time you’re getting ready to meet a man, remember these body language do’s and don’ts for sparking a romantic feeling of attraction in him:

    Don’t: Lean Forward

    When you lean forward toward a man while you’re sitting or standing, it feels masculine and aggressive to him. It changes your physical and emotional vibe and subconsciously feels like you’re chasing him.

    To counteract this, simply lean back. Just tilt your body backwards when you’re around a man, and see what happens. When you’re sitting in a chair, don’t lean forward when you’re having a conversation. Lean back. If you’re standing across from a man, put one foot behind the other and shift your weight so that you’re leaning away, not toward him.

    There is a subtle energy exchange that happens between a man and a woman when they interact. This is where leaning back comes into play – by relaxing your body and “opening” it, you are signaling your affinity towards him and openness to his approach. In this way, we can say that a woman makes the first move by making it possible for a man to make his.

    Do: Relax Your Hands

    When women manage and multi-task, their hands get very tight. So do their shoulders and arms. Have you ever caught yourself balling your hands into a tight fist when you’re speaking with a man? This kind of body language feels tense and harsh to a man.

    When we fully embrace our femininity, this is very attractive to a man and encourages him to take the masculine role to lead the relationship forward.
    Instead, practice letting your wrists go limp and opening your palms. Move your hands in front of your body and imagine they have no bones at all in them. If you’re holding a glass or a fork, notice how tightly you’re gripping, and allow your hands to soften. This small change will make you feel soft, feminine and calmer. It will force you to slow down and drop tension off your body.

    Don’t: Have Tall Shoulders

    When we’re nervous or uneasy, we tend to tense the area around our neck and shoulders. Do a check-in with your body right now, but especially when you’re with a man. Chances are your shoulders will have been creeping up toward your ears, and you probably didn’t even notice.

    To a man, this looks like you’re ready to pounce. It reminds him of his own tension, and he doesn’t want to feel that in you. On the contrary, what men love about us women is our ability to be soft and in touch with our feelings. He wants to feel relaxed around you, especially if he’s a man with a lot of stress from his job. He wants to see you as his oasis. Keep a watch on where your shoulders are and consciously practice relaxing them and letting them fall.

    Do: Step Back

    If you feel a man pull back or lean away, it’s not enough to just lean back. Actually take a step backward. A man will sense the open space, and he will intuitively feel the need to move closer to you without any control on your part.

    Surprisingly, this will also make you feel more in control. By allowing yourself to move away from him, you keep yourself from appearing needy or eager to please, and the ball is now in his court to move closer or not.

    If you soften your body language in these ways, he’ll feel compelled to be around you and get to know you. He’ll feel more affectionate and romantic toward you, and he’ll feel inspired to pursue you.

    In my Modern Siren program, I teach you even more ways to use your body language and your feminine energy to mesmerize a man and make him feel like he has to have you.

    A Modern Siren is a woman who effortlessly magnetizes a man, including using her body language to draw him in. You’ll learn what hasn’t worked for you in the past to attract a man and make him fall for you, and I’ll teach you, step by step, what you can start doing today to finally have the relationship you want with the man you want.

  267.  #267Sirenity on September 11, 2012 at 5:32 am

    I echo that worry for Siren Angel and I feel that sick anxious feeling you get when you are watching a movie and the heroine is walking into a trap or about to get hurt and you see it coming and the music is getting louder…it feels like the edge of a precipice.

    I would hope this is not the case. But i feel distressed reading that there will be sneaking around behind the childrens backs , not in a real relationship and accepting in fact a “demotion” in importance of SA in M’s life.He has down graded her and she is accepting that so she can feel warm in his arms for a while . He will get the validating feeling of her presence on his terms (she couldnt stay away after all ..thats very validating for him) and her determination to get a commitment dissolved after a midnight booty call from his bedroom . (Sorry if that sounds harsh but thats how it reads).

    I feel very triggered and anxious for her because this is how my own nightmare started and it went on for years is very difficult to back track once you are drip fed on your man crack.

    And it will still be friends with benefits and she needs to decide what feeling that knowledge gives her. For me it was a terrible gradual erosion of self esteem which I couldnt see through the veil of excuses i made..

    That nasty sinking stab of fear when his phone announces a late night text is the feeling that matters most . That is the BIG RED FLAG. Because that is the feeling that never goes away . And whilst there is no commited relationship, he can receive texts and emails and calls, see as many women as he pleases and sleep with them too ..

  268.  #268Tam on September 11, 2012 at 5:38 am

    Sirenity, a good post and it has reminded me again about keeping strong when my man crack shows up, if he does, because he will unwittingly play the same game again if I let him.
    And I intend to honour myself, and trust that he will honour me and be honest with me BECAUSE I stick to my boundaries.
    The result does not matter…I also do not wish to drag out the pain of an uncommitted relationship for years, which I have managed to do before.
    I love myself too much for that now.

  269.  #269Memulo on September 11, 2012 at 5:38 am


    I just thought that I did this once with a boyfriend of three years that I lived together with. We broke up and then he missed me and I agreed to see him again, partially because I thought it means that he loves me. He told me later that he was really surprised when I agreed, though from my perspective he BEGGED!! And he valued me less, so I had to really leave and without a nice feeling of self-respect.

  270.  #270Siren Angel on September 11, 2012 at 5:40 am

    Thank you Sirenity,

    But he made it very clear he has no one else in mind at all and is not looking for anyone else.

    I need to step back and feel through this.

    I don’t want to be ‘demoted’. But i know in time he will warm up and step up to find a solution. Even if it sounds crazy.

    I told him I don’t want to just come over, There has to be as much contact as possible without the kids and looking for solutions to reintroduce the kids for me to accept this for now.

  271.  #271Belle on September 11, 2012 at 5:43 am


    Siren Angel

    I feel curious and wonder if you are really okay with seeing him without the kids, and also you both seeing other people?
    If so it sounds like a great solution, actually, for you both to get your needs met and become more emotionally resourced.
    I imagine it feels like a relief being able to give up trying to win over his kids and proving yourself to him, and I imagine it also feels like a relief to not have your son to have to deal with his kids anymore as well.
    What do you think?

  272.  #272Memulo on September 11, 2012 at 5:43 am

    Funny how we see others situations clearly but not our own;) Anyone thinks I should write my guy back? He does sound very apologetic in his text from yesterday morning.

  273.  #273julie on September 11, 2012 at 5:46 am

    what if the person is confused and live 43 miles away after one year of dating and now saying it is not working, and he will call in two weeks but you are not broke up. Please comment back.

  274.  #274Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 5:46 am

    With regard to “sneaking around behind the children’s back” I believe that Turquoise could lend a voice of wisdom to this.

    Siren Angel I can tell you that Lauren Frances the author of the article above is about believing what men say. If he said “friends” that is what he meant and he is thinking that you are a grown woman and are agreeing to friendship if you accept his offer. Men believe that friends can have sex and live like a couple. Is that what you believe? I can also tell you that close proximity can get hormones going and have me creating all kinds of fallacies in my head. How about you?

  275.  #275Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 5:47 am

    Memulo what exactly did he say? Not sound.

  276.  #276Tam on September 11, 2012 at 5:48 am

    Memulo, I agree, I see others’ solutions so clear and yet am a rabbit in headlights when it comes to myself!! Ugh.
    Well, you could write to him, why not?

  277.  #277Radlove on September 11, 2012 at 5:48 am


    I appreciate your candor. Let me just say this, on a public blog, there ARE some things I don’t say. There ARE things going on that give me reason to believe this will be more than just a platonic friendship someday. I am just trying to make sense out of it all, and I think I am feeling more peaceful about the whole thing than ever before.

    Thank you for assuring me that you DO mean well, as far as having my best interests at heart. Just to let you know, as a whole, I believe R is in the midst of repairing his treatment of me from 2009. I believe he is doing his best to change. He has asked me in three separate conversations how he can treat me better.

    And he IS treating me better, and being more and more aware of when he is hurting me, and trying to NOT hurt me.

    Hugs to you!

  278.  #278Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 5:49 am

    “But he made it very clear he has no one else in mind at all and is not looking for anyone else”

    He might have meant his conscious mind. Most of us have people in our lives that we are attracted to and an old flame that we can “go back” to if circumstances are right.

  279.  #279Memulo on September 11, 2012 at 5:54 am


    ‘Fell asleep. Didn’t have coffee. Thought you ate when I dropped you. Have app on cell phone now.’

    I know, it may sound cryptic, but that’s his style lol.

  280.  #280Radlove on September 11, 2012 at 5:55 am


    188 – He is not ignoring me at all right now. We are getting along fabulous, in daily communication, and I am not posting much because I feel vulnerable.

    I am just trying to make sense of it all. I mainly broke down the perceived non-proposal in 2009. But the blow by blow stuff that happened in 2009 paralleled what I posted on traumatic bonding. It was NOT an isolated incident. It was a whole cycle of heart-fu/cking that led up to the mega heart fu/ck.

    I no longer feel a need to keep rehashing 2009. That article showed me why I was. And now, like I said, I believe he is changing his behavior. I feel it…and it feels really good.

    No, I am not delusional a little bit. In the past, Knock Softly related to me closely with another comparable relationship that was traumatic bonding. I felt thoroughly understood by her, and she knew I wasn’t delusional.

    This is why I see i have to leave this alone. It is too deep and too psychologically disturbing to handle in this forum. I am very much grounded in reality.

  281.  #281BAB on September 11, 2012 at 5:56 am

    Morming ladies!

    I’m struggling with feeling very lonely and forgotten at night, I can’t seem to express correctly to my boyfriend how much I love when he takes the time out of his nightly activities to go to bed with me.
    I just lay there trying to decide what to do.
    I am ok with just snuggling myself and falling asleep, but I really feel the need to present him with a feeling message.
    But every time I start, it comes out blaming and making him at fault. Please help, I can’t get this one right in my head:(

  282.  #282Radlove on September 11, 2012 at 5:56 am

    Belle and Heart and Rivergirl,

    Belle’s 258 – “thank you thank you thank you for having the courage to say this!!”

    Yes! Thank you, Heart! We are good.

    Thank you, also, Rivergirl.

  283.  #283Radlove on September 11, 2012 at 5:57 am

    …and Belle!

  284.  #284Radlove on September 11, 2012 at 6:01 am


    280 – I have heard a number of good approaches thru Rori and Christian Carter:

    1. In a good moment, where you feel connected, you could say, “Remember that time when we went to be cuddling and….? That felt so good. I really miss that with you! What do you think?”

    2. At a time other than bed time, you could say, “I feel lonely often at bedtime. It would feel so good to have my cuddle buddy in bed with me! What do you think?”

    3. A more subtle way is to read a book and just be away from him, leaving welcoming space for him to come to you. But I am guessing you have already been doing this.

    What I have learned for me is the key is to take all pressure off a relationship. I realized I was way too controlling with R. Now that I just am playful and let him come to me on his terms, it feels really good.

  285.  #285Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 6:03 am

    Siren Angel it is not unusual in the moment for a man to put his ego aside and beg a woman, so he gets what he wants.

  286.  #286Radlove on September 11, 2012 at 6:04 am


    192 – Thank you! That feels really good to hear! I have been MAJORING in this stuff, and your feedback shows me that it really is solidifying!

    I also notice myself interacting with my Mom this week. Over and over I feel triggered, deep, deep triggers from childhood. In the past, it would have been a shouting match.

    Now, I am meeting most of her yelling, criticism, and blame with silence, or with a simple, quiet feeling message. And I am refusing to allow myself to be controlled. I am feeling capable of interacting with love and wisdom with her for the first time in my life. It is challenging, tho, and I feel drained after being with her since Wednesday. Sure do love her tho!

  287.  #287Siren Angel on September 11, 2012 at 6:05 am

    Belle @271,

    “I feel curious and wonder if you are really okay with seeing him without the kids, and also you both seeing other people?” We did this last january and it got us back together. He made it clear, and I did too, that he would not date other women. However, I did say that without a commitment, I would like to explore other options, he agreed although he said it would hurt him.

    “If so it sounds like a great solution, actually, for you both to get your needs met and become more emotionally resourced.
    I imagine it feels like a relief being able to give up trying to win over his kids and proving yourself to him, and I imagine it also feels like a relief to not have your son to have to deal with his kids anymore as well.” Yes, it does feel like a relief, but what I really want is another chance at being a family. I see it as an opportunity to reconnect with him as I agree that it comes from HIM (even if consciously about the kids). He needs to be inspired to find a solution and to want to make it work. The only way I see this possible is like we did in January is to see each other and bond and reconnect so that he can feel the drive to make something.

  288.  #288Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 6:06 am

    Yeah Memulo. But that was sharing facts. No apologizes. I would encourage you to accept as is. Men are very direct. If he wanted to apologize he would. I think he doesn’t even believe you are hurt or he did anything wrong. I would assume he believe everything is good between you.

  289.  #289Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 6:07 am

    No apologies.

  290.  #290Daria on September 11, 2012 at 6:08 am

    i am noticing a part of me feels very giggly and amused watching women lie to themselves and break their own hearts

    i notice i feel scared to share that here and i feel compulsion to judge myself to prevent pain from feeling judged

    i wonder what this means

    i do feel happy and smily 🙂

    and i feel disturbed by that

    i feel excited i am writing this and observing myself and noting in writing

    there is probably a part of me that feels very sad and powerless and scared, and it might be that im shutting off from feelign those emotions and going into judging and laughing at people instead


    i would like to heal this

    i dont want to jduge and laugh at myself

    i want to be there for me and support myself

    i feel angry and powerless!

    i feel scared

    i dont want to handle feeling scared

    it feels better to feel amused

    maybe thats the way im taking the easy way out of the tunnel? letting msyelf out the side door with humor?

    rori says its good when i can find humor and laugh at my anger hehe


    im feeling amused

    what if i could accept the part of me that feels amused and delgiht that she’s found such a great feeling way to cope with her feelings?

    i feel guilty for laughing at the hurting women awwww


    but i feel so powerless to do anything!

    laughing feels good…

    the guilt feels not so good and the fear too

    i feel more amusement


  291.  #291Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 6:09 am

    He needs to be inspired to find a solution and to want to make it work. The only way I see this possible is like we did in January is to see each other and bond and reconnect so that he can feel the drive to make something.”

    This my dear Siren Angel is taking control of the relationship and thinking you are a better man than him.

  292.  #292Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 6:09 am

    Daria to me it feels sad. Do you have the article where Rori talks about men lying to themselves?

  293.  #293Siren Angel on September 11, 2012 at 6:10 am


    I agree that he may be trying to get his cake and eat it too.

    I just don’t know where exactly to go from here in any other way, because I feel he will not change his mind about the kids if we are apart. I am scared that he may eventually try with someone else.

    I did put down some very clear ‘want’s and ‘dont wants’ on the table. Weekends, exclusivity, and so forth. He even said that it,s not about the sex, it’s about being together and connecting and cuddling.

  294.  #294Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 6:11 am

    Daria thanks for “dont want to handle feeling scared

    it feels better to feel amused

    maybe thats the way im taking the easy way out of the tunnel? letting msyelf out the side door with humor?

    rori says its good when i can find humor and laugh at my anger hehe”

    It feels better and makes a lot of sense to my psyche

  295.  #295BAB on September 11, 2012 at 6:11 am

    Thank you Redlove for those ideas!
    I find myself really struggling to keep it about me and not lean forward with this one.
    I have been trying to be open and give him space, but he doesn’t notice it all it seems, when hes on his computer with heads phones on. (His normal routine)
    I also was very controlling and leading about this in the past. as well as i would always go to him and say goodnight and ask for a kiss, now i don’t and there’s nothing offered in return:( i miss that connection so much, i am finding it hard not to stress over it.

  296.  #296Tam on September 11, 2012 at 6:13 am

    Oh, Mr ‘I hate driving’ just sent me another email…asking me to tell him when I get in and offering to pick me up from the airport in case I don’t have a ride.
    That’s pretty much unheard of as it is a massive round-trip for him. He never offered before, well he never knew exactly when I arrived. Now he wants to know lol. I feel surprised.
    I shall let that one-sentence email unanswered….a friend will pick me up from the airport. It feels to much of an ‘assault’ to have him be the first thing I see…what do you think Sirens?
    I’d feel better to let my friend pick me up.
    I feel smiley, it’s more than two weeks…I wonder what got into him, this is really new.

  297.  #297Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 6:13 am

    This ” am scared that he may eventually try with someone else” is where your work is Siren Angel. This fear and scarcity mentality is keeping you tied to him. Men even dogs smell fear from far away.

    As CCarter says “don’t be scared to lose a man. Be scared that he won’t change”.

  298.  #298Butterfly Wings on September 11, 2012 at 6:13 am

    SA I feel afraid for you, and partly because my situation is similar in some ways and sometimes it doesn’t feel great. Although one positive is tht we’re not hiding TH from my children but I can understand why you wouldn’t want the kids getting confused.

    Just put yourself and your needs first ok? And get into CDing as quickly as you can! It may be exactly the trigger he needs to realise what an amazing woman he’s about to lose from his life.

    Just don’t put your life on hold for a man who may never offer you what you want, because the past doesn’t always predict the future.


  299.  #299Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 6:15 am

    Well said BW. It reminds me of Rori’s story how she left her husband and went on a date when he did not propose as he had promised. I believe she says she stayed in a hotel for the weekend of the date.

  300.  #300Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 6:16 am

    Tam I think it is the waterwheel of love turned towards you. Please be a fern and require water

  301.  #301Sassy on September 11, 2012 at 6:17 am

    If a man tells us one thing about his thoughts or feelings (ie this is a friendship) and we continue to believe and try to convince others and ourselves and even him, aren’t we, in effect, calling him a liar?

  302.  #302Tam on September 11, 2012 at 6:18 am FW, that is nice.
    So how do I do that? 🙂

  303.  #303Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 6:19 am

    Sassy that’s my belief. We are calling him a liar to soothe our lying to ourselves so it does not feel so icky.

  304.  #304Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 6:22 am

    He is offering to pick you up from the airport

    “aaawww that feels so wonderful like the world is rolling out the red carpet for Princess Tam to step on as I arrive in Fl. Thank you so much, so kind of you. But my friend is picking me up”. That is my spontaneous reaction but Tameesing it would be best.

  305.  #305Butterfly Wings on September 11, 2012 at 6:22 am

    TH tried to get cake and eat it tonight, aka asking me over, and suggesting I cook him dinner! Rofl

    This was after he, myself and another guy from work had done a workout at the gym. The other guy ended up driving him home because I told him no.

    I wish I’d said “If you hadn’t moved out, your home-cooked dinner would have been ready for you when you got home from work!” lol

    But I didn’t. And I am so proud of myself for saying no, and I know he’s really starting to miss me.

    Today he came to my desk at work (he rarely does that) and invited me to join him for a walk. Nice! Funny thing though, is that on this walk, he hardly said a thing. He is a man of VERY few words….

  306.  #306Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 6:24 am

    By the way Sassy, this the kind of thing that Rori refers to in an Interview with Virginia and CCarter that is innocuous to us but it is there.

  307.  #307Goddess Lily on September 11, 2012 at 6:25 am


    You’re not lost. You have remained strong in all this confusion. I agree though that this current situation doesn’t feel good to me. You know your situation best but from the outside it looks like he gets the best of you while you wait on him to catch up.

  308.  #308Daria on September 11, 2012 at 6:25 am

    ohhhh i also feel like a thrill of gigllyness when something ‘unbeleivealby’ awful happens with a man

    like if i ‘catch him with another woman’

    somehow that feels funny

    its like i throw a cover over my heart, which does feel achy and also my tummy feels tumbly and i feel weak and ill

    and over that i feell a TRHILL OF JOY as if im participating ina fun game

    ive noticed this before

    i want to heal this, in a way that feels good lol

    yum this feels exciting to ntoice again from this space

  309.  #309Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 6:25 am

    BW I would wager that him him not saying a thing was him thinking and sinking into his feelings.

  310.  #310Tam on September 11, 2012 at 6:26 am

    303 FW, I feel all smiley and cute reading your message..thank you 🙂

  311.  #311Butterfly Wings on September 11, 2012 at 6:29 am

    308 FW – yeah possibly. He’s normally pretty quiet anyway, and in the past I would try to fill the silence, but today I just walked along quietly beside him. It felt nice actually, and it was a beautiful morning. 🙂

  312.  #312Daria on September 11, 2012 at 6:31 am

    im also finding relief by witing advicy posts and then deleting them

  313.  #313Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 6:31 am

    “its like i throw a cover over my heart, which does feel achy and also my tummy feels tumbly and i feel weak and ill”

    Thank you Daria. This brings a nauseous feeling in my tummy and my throat. It feels like tightening in my stomach and bitterness in my mouth. I feel tearyeyed and heartachy. I feel headachy and pounding over my left eye.

    aaaahhhh sigh relaxxxx sink in

    Thank you. This is the first time I am becoming aware of having these feelings around this issue. I intend to remove that blanket from over my heart.

  314.  #314Butterfly Wings on September 11, 2012 at 6:33 am

    SA, I am pretty sure you’re going to go ahead with this arrangement, despite all of our concerns for you, so I’m offering this little piece of advice as I’ve found myself in a similar situation.

    When you go back home, it is important that you get as busy as you possibly can. That will mean that you won’t be nearly as available as you used to be.

    I know that will be hard (because I wanted to be with TH), but keeping your original plans will significantly increase your degree of difficulty and he will be more inspired to “claim” you, if there is a chance of that happening.

    He will most likely grumble about it (TH is KING of grumbling right now!), but it does work and it will also help you to feel a LOT more powerful and confident that you will be ok with or without him.

    I hope you know that we’re all expressing concern purely because we love you. xxx

  315.  #315Butterfly Wings on September 11, 2012 at 6:34 am

    Ok I’m exhausted. Night sirens! xxx

  316.  #316Sassy on September 11, 2012 at 6:34 am

    Thank you FW. I feel validated. I have been wanting to post that comment for a while now. My heart felt as if it would beat right out of my chest, I felt as if I would be inundated with posts from sirens that “no that’s not it in my case at all…”.
    But I am guilty of doing this very thing because I wanted to believe so badly that he truly wanted more than what, in reality, he actually gave.
    Maybe, that, in essence, is a true definition of the “imaginary relationship”. Ooohhh, my hands are shaking and my heart won’t settle down. I feel teary, I want a “real” relationship.
    Men say their truth, but they will take whatever we are willing to give.

  317.  #317Siren Angel on September 11, 2012 at 6:35 am

    FW @296,

    Yes, my fear right now is that he will meet someone else with who he will find it easier to start again with the kids from a fresh start.

    I realize I am acting partly because of fear. I did tell him that I don’t feel it’s fair that I got the ‘adjustment’ period with the kids and that I would not date a man who is not divorced yet again because of this. My fear is that once the kids have adjusted and the divorce is finalized, it will be so much easier for him to put his foot down with the kids and start ‘fresh’.

    But also, I don’t see how he can see clearly if we are not together so that he can feel my FMs and my leaning back.

  318.  #318Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 6:38 am

    Dear friends,

    It’s not easy talking about tough issues with someone you love.

    You don’t want to hurt his feelings, you don’t want to start a fight, but you don’t want to your needs and feelings ignored forever, either.

    Have you ever had a difficult subject you needed to discuss with your guy, such as:

    * Where the relationship is headed
    * He’s still involved with or spending too much time with his ex
    * He’s been acting evasive and withdrawn
    * You suspect he’s cheating
    * Differences in money values or financial struggles
    * Sexual issues (you want less or more, or something different)
    * His dysfunctional relationship with his family or friends

    …but you didn’t know where to start, or how to talk to him so that he’d LISTEN and UNDERSTAND where you’re coming from?

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    Most women don’t know this, and therefore they waste a lot of valuable time and energy worrying about how to approach their man or communicating in a way that’s COUNTER productive.

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    Sign up now or visit the workshop information page here.

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    Jonathon Aslay

  319.  #319Tam on September 11, 2012 at 6:39 am

    The other thing that is strange is that now I am sending emails with feeling messages, he is ‘complaining’ that I am not as funny anymore.
    I feel a little baffled by that. It is true, I am a very humorous person and we used to joke a lot also in emails and I know he loves this about me.
    I am worried that all these feeling messages are, although authentic, not the ‘me’ that I know and he also knows. Normally I would write different.
    He has noticed.
    Hm. I feel like an actor or something. I don’t like this.

  320.  #320Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 6:42 am

    Tam he has to experience you as new. That’s how they notice. You can be the same old same old funny “buddy” and be the taken for granted woman. Or be the feminine woman that keeps him on his toes.

  321.  #321Tam on September 11, 2012 at 6:51 am

    319 – Right! That’s better. Let’s keep him on his toes then. I still can’t get over the fact that he would make that round-trip just to pick me up from the airport.
    Just goes to show – I do believe when they want to see us, they would cross the Antarctic.
    If anything, it has made my resolve to look after myself even stronger. Because I don’t want any half-hearted men after me. I want one that wants to climb a mountain just so he can be with me.
    This stuff works.
    No more crumbs for me, I solemnly declare it here and now!

  322.  #322Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 6:58 am

    EMK Philosophy

    “Most men don’t need you to be their soulmates.

    They don’t need you to understand their spirituality.

    They don’t need you to come to meet their friends and family right away.

    All most men need is someone cute, fun, and supportive.

    Someone who believes in him.

    Someone who thinks he’s smart, funny, sexy, and trustworthy.

    Furthermore, in searching for a girlfriend, he doesn’t need a woman who is taller, smarter, richer, funnier or more educated than he is.

    And at last, we’ve uncovered the secret to why dating is more difficult for women.

    A man can date anyone who makes him feel good.

    A woman – generally speaking – refuses to do so.

    Not only do you insist that your man is more impressive than you are – which eliminates 90+% of men – but you insist that the remaining 10% of men also read your mind.

    In your head, the right guy…

    Never pressures you for sex before commitment…
    Always remembers to pay and practices all forms of chivalry….
    Makes it clear that you’re “the one” from the get-go….
    Calls, emails, texts and makes plans every time you want to see him…
    Has no selfish needs or bad habits whatsoever. His entire life is catered to figuring out ways to make you happy.
    Men don’t need you to be in the top 90% of everything. We don’t need you to cater to our every desire. Our decision-making is generally much more straightforward.

    If he takes you on a first date and you were fun, easygoing and sexy, you’ll go out again.

    If you continue having fun, having foreplay, and having minimal conflict, you’ll become exclusive.

    If he wants to get married someday and you’re the easygoing, fun, and sexy girlfriend, he’s probably going to propose to you.

    If you’re married, he expects that you’ll still be as easygoing, fun and sexy as you were when you first dated.

    That’s about all.

    Please don’t misinterpret what I’m saying here.

    It’s not that you’re “wrong” for wanting a man to be the best he can be.

    It’s just that your expectations are so much higher than ours.

    And, as you’ve noticed, men always seem to fall short.

    I’m not asking you to put up with some selfish jackass.

    I’m asking you to put up with a guy like me. A guy who has a life of his own, opinions of his own, and a timetable of his own.”

  323.  #323Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 7:13 am

    “When you’re sitting in a chair, don’t lean forward when you’re having a conversation”

    I remember doing this in an interview and a male panelist told me he felt sorry for the woman who asked the question. He said I came across as if I was going to pounce on her.

  324.  #324Daria on September 11, 2012 at 7:42 am

    Femininewoman – I rember lean forward as an advice for interviews and that it shows interest and confidence . It’s one of the things that confused me finding Rori. I guess it displays masculine energy which may (or may not) work in the interviewees favor.

    Did your colleague mean it as praise?

  325.  #325Calypso on September 11, 2012 at 7:46 am

    Hi Sirens,

    I have a lunch date with JC today and he asked me if I could “squeeze him in” for a dinner date this week. I have been leaning way back since the last time I saw him when he did not get out of bed to see me out and then cancelled the plans we had to take my 18 year old shooting because it “might” rain.

    I enjoy spending time with him, but I’m equally happy by myself . . . wonder what that says? Oh yea . . . I’m still in love with my X . . .duh.

  326.  #326Tam on September 11, 2012 at 7:54 am

    Ok, so I did write back expressing that it would feel good and also a little exciting if he picked me up from the airport, but I have a ride already. I said that it feels good to know he could, just in case something goes wrong.
    I most likely won’t hear from him now until I get there (normal), so I am going to use the next two weeks to totally focus on myself, I have appointments to get my teeth fixed (major scary stuff for me), get my hair done, lots of work, packing and general paperwork.
    I shall try not to dwell on anything and go there with no expectations. I shall not lean forward and I shall not let him know I am there as soon as I land, he will be able to find out.
    All is fine.
    Breathing in and breathing out.
    Love to me.

  327.  #327Tam on September 11, 2012 at 8:06 am

    Is it possible to feel scared of being happy?
    Guess so.

  328.  #328Belle on September 11, 2012 at 8:08 am


    “This my dear Siren Angel is taking control of the relationship and thinking you are a better man than him.”

    Which is an external expression of trying to control inner feelings, which takes SA right back to her dream – your external experience is reflecting your internal conflicting feelings and beliefs.

    SA, if you can continually practice sinking into the fear and the feelings, the inner struggle will dissolve and it won’t need to show up as the struggle with this man.

    If you can’t, no worries, life will keep handing you the same lesson over and over again until you get it 🙂

  329.  #329CurvySiren10 on September 11, 2012 at 8:15 am

    Tam, you sound amazingly good and strong! I feel so pleased for you…

    As I suspected, MrP is stepping up and showing you (in his way) how excited he is about your return. I really believe if you stick with your feminine approach, he’s going to continue to surprise you…

    It won’t surprise me, but I know how protective you are when considering his relationship abilities.

    Keep focusing on you!! xoxo

  330.  #330Tam on September 11, 2012 at 8:20 am

    328…aw, curvy, thank you so much. Your messages are always so uplifting.
    It’s funny that you are not surprised, because I am totally surprised. I have just not known this before, especially not when I am not actually there yet.
    It feels good.
    But yes, I have to be protective of myself, because I have been hurt before. Though I know him well enough to know that he is a good person and that he is doing the best he can. Else I would not even be there anymore.

  331.  #331CurvySiren10 on September 11, 2012 at 8:24 am

    Tam, yes- just be sure to stay aware of the “protectiveness”. You have been hurt before. We all have. But we still have to really keep our hearts and minds open to the story being different this time. Give him the chance to show you what he has to offer. Stay open and willing to to take that chance again…

  332.  #332Tam on September 11, 2012 at 8:27 am

    331….Curvy, I will try my best! It’s a constant struggle for me to stay open and warm, because I have my own fear issues in the mix, but if I put them to the forefront, and go back to the old patterns, we both clam up and it’s a disaster…been there…that is where the hurt is and where it came from.
    So a lot of work still to be done on me. But I do feel hopeful…and happy that you and the other ladies are here to help me. Actually, I feel rather privileged.
    It is such a lovely thing.

  333.  #333Sassy on September 11, 2012 at 8:29 am


    What if this turns out to be everything you’ve ever wanted with him?
    Exciting? scary? Second chance?

  334.  #334Belle on September 11, 2012 at 8:32 am


    By the way, now that I’m feeling softer and more integrated…
    please do forgive me for casting you as the villain in my drama!
    You were so very very right not to take the bait I was tossing and I feel so much gratitude for your wisdom.
    You may have noticed from the riffs beforehand that I was dealing with wounded masculine energy. I felt so afraid of my violent feelings a few years ago that I completely shut down and went the opposite direction and became extremely passive for a few years. I refused to protect myself because I didn’t know any other way than violence.

    The wounded masculine HATES weak, tender, feminine energy! In the days after I could feel it wanting to rip at something soft and I just noticed and held it and loved it and the experience of feeling like I was really standing up for myself has been incredibly healing. I knew something I had repressed was causing my back pain but it had felt too scary to face before – but it went from debilitating to hardly noticeable in those few moments.

    I feel so much gratitude for ME!! I wanna hug and squeeze and kiss myself all over! I was so brave to explore all of those feelings! I was so brave to ride the trigger down to the terror! I was so brave to trust myself!

    (((FW))) thank you!

  335.  #335Tam on September 11, 2012 at 8:33 am

    333…Sassy, he has some major problems/issues and it is not so straightforward….but he knows about them and he does the best he can.
    This would be our 4th chance, which is why I feel wary and scared.
    It is scary, and exciting, and I am well aware of the fact that if a relationship sprung out of this, it would be a very unconventional one, because he is eccentric and fiercely independent (but so am I).
    The other thing is that he is moving away.
    So….it’s all open.

  336.  #336Sassy on September 11, 2012 at 8:43 am

    I am a firm believer in where there’s a will, there’s a way.
    Just take one moment, one breath at a time.

  337.  #337Tam on September 11, 2012 at 8:46 am

    336 Sassy, I totally agree. I used to be Miss Impatient, but I realised that it does not work.
    I constantly have to tell myself to relax, step back, smell the roses and relax… 😉

  338.  #338Sassy on September 11, 2012 at 8:47 am

    On this day, please stand with me and all of America, to honor our fallen from the trajedy of 9/11/2001.
    As recently as yesterday, there were reports of “fallout” from this in the way of cancers being suffered by the first responders/heroes/survivors.
    We were pushed down, but we will NEVER be out.

  339.  #339ruth on September 11, 2012 at 8:52 am

    Amen to that Sassy

  340.  #340Tam on September 11, 2012 at 8:55 am

    338 – yes!!

  341.  #341Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 8:56 am


    Thank you for sharing your story. I had not been following along but I sensed or maybe kinda assumed that it was not about me. I resolved not to take any bait as I had learned from one of Rori’s interviews to not hook into drama. Now I feel so happy that I was able to practice not taking things personal and walk away. Truly though the experience had me look at myself and though some of your words didn’t feel soft I did learn some lessons from them. One in particular was that I do avoid confrontations, sometimes. Being the one who claims that I am hooked on adrenaline and love a good fight, that realization was surprising to me.

    I did notice since then that your words include a lot of experience and wisdom. Thank you.

  342.  #342Siren Angel on September 11, 2012 at 9:04 am


    “Which is an external expression of trying to control inner feelings, which takes SA right back to her dream – your external experience is reflecting your internal conflicting feelings and beliefs.

    SA, if you can continually practice sinking into the fear and the feelings, the inner struggle will dissolve and it won’t need to show up as the struggle with this man.”

    Yup, Belle, I agree. I need to take care of those feelings, honor them, and let go of some fears for any of this to have a clear and good outcome.

  343.  #343Siren Angel on September 11, 2012 at 9:11 am


    I am going to go with the flow on this one, and be open to explore the relationship with M without the kids – if there is a time set up to reintroduce the kids.

    I know it will be hard on me, but what I need more than anything is your support so I am hoping that you will continue to support me here and in your thoughts and hearts, even though you may not agree with my stance.

    I know I will need your help and advice, and there will be moments of anxiety and doubt, and moments where I just want to ‘be in a good place’ and will want to uplift my vibe.

    Please continue to support me. I have done this in January with M, and things just worked magically when I was able to let him lead 100%. I know I will not convince him of anything, and any pushing will have the opposite effect, so I will leave the kids situation as is for now. I want to enjoy this moment as much as possible, because I do believe the attachment is there yet this man is able to put himself through torture and sacrifice for his kids. I need to take his ‘no’ as a ‘no’. And express my needs and keep my heart open, and explore and experiment this for any evolution to happen here.

  344.  #344Siren Angel on September 11, 2012 at 9:15 am

    FW @291,

    “This my dear Siren Angel is taking control of the relationship and thinking you are a better man than him.”

    FW, what if I let him control completely (no kids) but have expressed my needs clearly? and receive his attention and love while leaning back? This was the dynamic in January that led to a ring.

    He has a lot of fear about the kids…

  345.  #345Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 9:22 am

    ((((((((((((Siren Angel))))))))))))))))))) Where my concern lie is that he said “friends”. So receiving his love in my mind is receiving what he will give as “love for a friend” while you are thinking romance. Men are clear about love and being “in love”. But I trust you will take care of yourself.

  346.  #346Daria on September 11, 2012 at 9:23 am

    wow talk about triggering!

    im gonna just kinda step sideways on these ones…

    woooz woooz

    dodged bullets

  347.  #347Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 9:24 am

    Though SA I would suggest you really get familiar with the Rori Raye Third Way and truly cdate. Focussing on the situation, building up your hopes, laser focus on him might backfire.

  348.  #348Daria on September 11, 2012 at 9:24 am

    universe i dont want to keep being shown that im not completely healed yet!

    i feel frustrated

    i want to feel healed and safe to create and trusting of me

    ohok i see

    change the significance i give to events

    ok thank u

  349.  #349Daria on September 11, 2012 at 9:27 am

    hey ! these obvious triggers are signs that im healing!


  350.  #350bloom-ing on September 11, 2012 at 9:41 am

    hey, daria! i wanted to tell you about this dream i had a while ago…. at the end of it, there was a big storm & i saw my “ancestral home” & then i went to a “learning place” & a group of animals all dressed up told me the lynxes were going to show me something & then i saw all the dead moving in the dust. it felt magical & like family.

    i feel so curious about the things you were listing……. because when i was little i felt the river otter energy & then later i thought, oh, before i have been the tree… i remember the most dramatic & amazing dream about bison before the lynx dream too…… i saw an epic hunt frozen in bronze in a colossal cleared-out hall & i really wanted to show everyone

    & i feel curious too if there are deer….

    i feel kind of amazed to talk to someone about this actually : ) but i feel fine if you “don’t wanna” too : )

  351.  #351Belle on September 11, 2012 at 9:49 am

    What I’m noticing is, the more often I write out the thoughts around hurt feelings, and feel the hurt, the more I laugh at myself and shake it off and choose to be confident instead.
    More and more I see from my adult perspective, and find it laughable that a man getting up and moving away feels like danger. Especially, a man who is up to no good…I feel giggly and smiley now.
    Yes! The men who are up to no good *should* be running away! My vibe is repelling him!

    Something else I noticed about the former attraction with C, was a need to seduce – residue from sexual abuse (C was also sexually abused as a child). The more I noticed and felt love for myself, the more that has fallen away and more and more I am feeling so much satisfaction in simply BEing. I feel RELIEF from that need.

    I’m feeling stronger, more secure. It’s almost like I used to feel like I was leaking, or that my insides were outside of me (continually longing) and now I feel like I’m all contained, all my guts are inside where they belong.

    I can see more clearly now how I was trying to get my unmet childhood needs met in relationship…”you take care of my little girl and I’ll mother your little boy” and it feels so good for that to be falling away.

  352.  #352bloom-ing on September 11, 2012 at 9:54 am

    mmm i feel weird to say my dreams…… it feels like….. plotting data to “summarize”…. & i feel unreal excited to try describing my dreams how they actually are to experience…. that sounds so yummy & inky dark, “spooky” almost & fun ! yay

  353.  #353Daria on September 11, 2012 at 10:00 am

    blooming – yeah lynxes will show u to the dead people too, actually mm theres a golden spinny wheel called a lynx

    well when i saw about they lynxes there were also buffalo around

  354.  #354Daria on September 11, 2012 at 10:01 am

    well bison type buffallo

    and we are the tree that is the woman being heart of the world

    like the Eyewa in Avatar

  355.  #355Daria on September 11, 2012 at 10:02 am

    ah i feel all stumbly hmm thank you for sharing your dream Blooming i See it

  356.  #356Laughing Goddess on September 11, 2012 at 10:14 am

    Oh my gosh, I have been feeling soooo tired lately.

    I know there is a reason but gosh, it feels overwhelming.

  357.  #357Smile on September 11, 2012 at 10:16 am

    Hi sirens!

    So I’ve had an email from strummingman everyday. This feels lovely and warm to have him thinking about me and him making contact.

    I might not reply to his email until tomorrow though…

    Or is this game playing? I Feel a bit like that. I feel like I should respond tonight but later would feel good. If I respond tomorrow I would be doing the purposely.

    Hm why would I do this…Maybe I don’t want to feel like I’m appearing too keen, but then I’m not leaning forward and it’s been 24hrs nearly since the email so that’s not appearing too keen… Now I feel I’m overanalysing.

  358.  #358Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 10:17 am

    More and more I see from my adult perspective, and find it laughable that a man getting up and moving away feels like danger. Especially, a man who is up to no good…I feel giggly and smiley now.
    Yes! The men who are up to no good *should* be running away! My vibe is repelling him!

    Oh yeah.

  359.  #359Tam on September 11, 2012 at 10:18 am

    Smile, just write when you feel like it….?!

  360.  #360Smile on September 11, 2012 at 10:20 am

    Julie , 273

    Hi! Leanback.

    Christain carter says…’if a man is unsure about what he wants, he doesn’t want what he’s got’

    Look after you, take care of your heart.

  361.  #361Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 10:22 am

    Smile I believe you can also try leaning back internally in your energy, your thoughts and your body language while responding to him. Maybe just share one feeling rather than waiting till tomorrow.

  362.  #362Smile on September 11, 2012 at 10:22 am

    Hi tam, was just catching up on airport lifts!

    Loved your response 

    I’m going to email after tea. I think this is what he will expect of me though. I am a little bit curious to leave it till tomorrow still. Ill check with myself later about how I feel to reply.

  363.  #363Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 10:23 am

    Julie – Rori Raye says if he is not in front of you he does not exist. Another coach says – assume he is off the planet.

  364.  #364Tam on September 11, 2012 at 10:25 am

    Hi Smile!!!
    Enjoy your dinner 🙂

  365.  #365Smile on September 11, 2012 at 10:27 am

    Thanks FW. I was actually going to lean forward in my email. So thanks fir the reminder.

    He has now settled into a job he enjoys which I feel so happy for him about. He said he had been up preparing stuff for his meeting and video conference, but he said I guess you wouldn’t be interested…? I took this as him wanting me to inquire about it, maybe it would make him feel good and important to tell me. My immediate response was I do feel interested. I’d love to hear. Is this leaning forward?

    I like the idea to share tonight but just a simple FM.

  366.  #366Smile on September 11, 2012 at 10:29 am

    I did put him out of my mind for 24hrs though. My job keeps me busy so I’m thankful for that. My mind only manages to wander as far as, must eat, must go to the toilet, during the day.

  367.  #367Smile on September 11, 2012 at 10:30 am

    Tam, having corn on the cob tonight! Feel excited! I love food 

  368.  #368Annie on September 11, 2012 at 10:38 am

    Siren Angel, only yo know what you really want.
    I feel exasperated.

    I do feel confused that you said you don’t want to sleep with him with no commitment.

    And then later on said you would sleep with him but date others without commitment.

    He has committed to nothing
    The deal he is offering you is seeing each other with a ‘maybe’ deal in the future.
    And his actions have proven that he doesn’t want to resolve the conflict re kids.

    WOW so he gets to see you and have sex with you and then maybe in about six months or a year he might offer you a commitment. But at the moment he doesn’t see that as a possibility. But it’s still a possibility.
    And all this without kids seeing each other.
    So no solution of fixing the conflict then. Ok
    His way of fixing it is to keep them and you and your child apart and avoid the conflict righteo. And how does that work later on then if this ‘maybe’ commitment then gets offered?

    This conflict is frozen (STUCK) in time as no resolution has taken place.

    If that’s the deal you want to accept it is what it is.

  369.  #369Tam on September 11, 2012 at 10:41 am

    I don’t think enquiring about something he would like to share with you, but is worried that you may not be interested, is leaning fwd, Smile.
    You could say ‘it feels good to hear about it’ if you are genuinely interested. Men like it when we find them interesting and admire them a little for their work or hobbies – in my experience.

  370.  #370Annie on September 11, 2012 at 10:43 am

    And once we sleep with a man we become hormonally attached.
    Do you really want to sleep with and become hormonally attached to a man who is not offering you any future commitment?

    Is that really what you want and in your best interest?
    What do you think?

  371.  #371Calypso on September 11, 2012 at 10:46 am

    Just had lunch with JC. He said it felt like forever since he had seen me and I playfully reminded him that he was snuggled up in bed last time I saw him . . . He said he didn’t even remember me kissing him goodbye. I told him that I asked him if he wanted to let myself out and he said “Yes, sweetheart, if you want to . . . ” OMG – he looked mortified! Too funny! He said I should not have let him get away with that and next time to tell him to get his A$$ out of bed! I promised to do that.

    Also – when he asked me what I was doing this weekend and I reminded him that I am taking my 18 year old son to Nashville to leave for Boot Camp he looked shocked again – He said, “Already?” – yes . . . .already, which is why I told you last weekend was our last opportunity to take him shooting. Whatever – I did not make a big deal of it. I could see him feeling guilty for ditching us, so i did not pile on. I stayed sweet and smiled at him (with my eyes too) and let him hold my hand and talk about going out of town together one weekend soon.

    He also told me that he has lost 9 pounds in 2 weeks – that he wants me to be proud to be seen with him. I was surprised that he’d lost so much in just 2 weeks, but he said it was from chasing me – lol good one!

  372.  #372Smile on September 11, 2012 at 10:50 am


    ‘Men like it when we find them interesting and admire them a little for their work or hobbies – in my experience.’

    This is my experience of strummingman too. Especially him talking about his job. I know it hit him hard to have no job.

    I’ll keep it short but tell him It would feel good to hear about it.

  373.  #373Goddess Lily on September 11, 2012 at 10:53 am

    Ooooh Calypso! I’m all giggly and feeling excited for you……(whispering) but quietly since I’m at work. 🙂

  374.  #374Tam on September 11, 2012 at 10:57 am

    I love my fear even though it feels crippling sometimes. It is only trying to protect my heart.
    ((((my fear))))

  375.  #375Brandylion on September 11, 2012 at 11:00 am

    Hi all,

    I haven’t had much time to read lately, but this posting caught my eye!

    I think one of the last times I posted I was about to have two dates in the same weekend. One went well (I thought) and one did not. I did not hear from either man again, even though the one with whom things felt good suggested that night that we go out again the following weekend. I have had no dates since.

    I’ve had a number of men in the last two weeks disappear on me when I tell them I can’t see them during the week but I’m available on weekends. That feels disappointing, but it’s true. I don’t finish with the daily things that I do (like going to school, taking care of my dog, running or going to the gym, and then planning, prepping, and/or grading) until after 9 pm. I just can’t fit even a coffee date into that and feel good and relaxed. But they’re not taking me up on my offers of weekend time, so they’re not right for me.

    I’m going with a girlfriend to a singles mixer next Monday. And I’m going Saturday with an acquaintance to a party thrown by a pair of his friends from who met through that site and got married this summer. I’m feeling hopeful I’ll meet one or two men with whom there is a mutual interest in seeing each other again.

  376.  #376Siren Angel on September 11, 2012 at 11:06 am

    FW @345,

    ‘Friends’ was before I came over last night, when he suggested I stay at his place during the drying of my flooded place…

    Last night he did not use the word ‘Friend’. Says he has had to sleep with a bug pillow and my silk nightie to be able to sleep, has cried, and has been really hurt this breakup. Has not had any inclination to go look on Match (like during last 2 breakups)… I really feel he’s not as far as he was gone last 2 breakups and this is a hiccup, and that like last times, probably faster the kiddies will be back in the picture.

    And yes, I will send MYSELF a clear message by making a new online profile, on another site than Match. If he asks I will tell him. If not no. I’m sticking to the rules and we will see…. someone’s gotta try it for real, no? in a difficult situation? at least it will be an experience to remember and to learn from for us all here.

    What do you think?

  377.  #377Calypso on September 11, 2012 at 11:09 am

    Thanks Goddess Lily!

    If JC will keep chasing me and if I can break my pattern of testing my man’s limits by pushing him away as hard as I can . . . we might have a chance.

    JC has made it clear he does not want to date anyone else and he doesn’t want me to either. I have not made him any promisees, but he knows how crazy busy I stay and yet I always make time for him when he asks me out, so he likely knows I’m not dating anyone else.

    What he does not know and what keeps me from letting this go too deep too fast is the knowledge that if GM asked me to spend time with him, I absolutely would. Absolutely, without question. I know myself and I know my heart’s desire. It’s easy for me to tell Siren Angel to be strong and not stay at M’s house, but who am I kidding? I would go stay with GM under any circumstances, just for the opportunity to breathe in my man crack one more time.

    How can I committ myself to JC when I feel this way? When I know it might take YEARS to stop feeling this way? I can’t . . .and that’s ok with me. Time will tell if it is enough for him. He’s been married twice before and I don’t think he is in any big hurry to committ either – hopefully not. I’d really just like to relax and have some fun for a change!

  378.  #378Siren Angel on September 11, 2012 at 11:09 am

    He said he missed me so much, and he held me ALL NIGHT in his arms. No, I am not a booty call. I know what a booty call is and this is NOT it.

  379.  #379Daria on September 11, 2012 at 11:10 am

    Laughing Goddess – bellydancing and doing a short intense movement (15 step downs each leg) i remember kept my energy up and felt SO good ! as soon as i stopped i remember napping all day…

    there are also diff forms of yoga, and T-tapp has a special section too…

  380.  #380Starla on September 11, 2012 at 11:16 am

    yay hi brandylion

  381.  #381Starla on September 11, 2012 at 11:21 am

    i feel so excited for my weight to level out somewhere so i can buy a new wardrobe

    i am feeling positively luscious.

    i am dating a ’10’ right now and it’s been a trip. I love that I manifested him but it’s been bringing out a lot of insecurity in me (it’s Warrior).

    I’m embracing it. I will just keep being myself. And striving to be my best self too. And my best self does not involve being down on any part of me.

    I love me sooooooo much.

  382.  #382bloom-ing on September 11, 2012 at 11:25 am

    last night i just puffed out a little “gosh, i feel bummed !” & cd turned his whole body to face me on the couch & said, “baby, what is it ?” & i just said, “awww, nothing, just getting used to being home & relaxing after work…” & he said, “well, just so you know, any time i hear you say, you feel bummed or you feel bad, i turn my entire focus – the entire focus of my being – onto fixing that & making you happy… so please don’t say that unless you actually have a problem” …. i just sat for a second & then grinned & said “ok” ……. then i said, “well, i feel so happy to sit next to you & share with you & play with you : )” & he cuddled up & it felt sweet & i felt more connected & like i “get it” maybe a bit more…

  383.  #383Miss Bells on September 11, 2012 at 11:29 am

    I am frustrated with rules stated in black and white when the real world is full of shades of gray– and all the other colors under the sun.
    Rigidity frustrates me…
    I AM a ROCK STAR!!!

  384.  #384bloom-ing on September 11, 2012 at 11:33 am


    i feel a bit curious about the “too busy” for week dates…… just because I hear you saying “too busy” for Relationship in the phrasing of it……….. & i feel curious if maybe you “explained” or presented it differently, you might communicate a “softer” message ? i’m thinking like instead of “aw, it would feel good to meet, but i’m so busy i can only meet up on the weekends, what do you think ?” you could say something like, “aw, it would feel good to meet, but i feel better to get to know dates on my weekend time when i’m feeling more relaxed & fun, what do you think ? ” idk, what do you think?

  385.  #385Smile on September 11, 2012 at 11:34 am

    Oo Starla… A new wardrobe would feel fabulous!

    It would feel good to treat myself to something new

  386.  #386Daria on September 11, 2012 at 11:36 am


  387.  #387Smile on September 11, 2012 at 11:37 am

    Tam, let excitement shine through your fear! ((tams fear))

    I can’t help but notice how similar our situations are. Our relationships have always felt similar in lots of ways but it’s spooky both our men have lean forward recently and that were both about to move.

  388.  #388Goddess Lily on September 11, 2012 at 11:38 am

    I just treated my car to a new set of designer black stilettos (tires). Lol, pretending they are shoes makes me good about the expense.

  389.  #389Calypso on September 11, 2012 at 11:39 am

    376 – Siren Angel – I know we all have reservations, but you have made your decision and now I feel a shift in me – to support you and even envy you a little – you feel like you have a chance to start again with the man you love – he has expressed himself to you and hopefully you have learned something about yourself and your patterns.

    Maybe this time you two will find your way together and stay there. I wish you so much love and blessings! i will be watching and learning from your experience. If presented with an opportunity to try again with GM, I would take it in a heart beat!

  390.  #390Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 11:40 am

    @149 Lily Medusa – Thanks so much for your thoughts. I feel seen, heard, and important. Thank you. I had the dream in the middle of the night, and woke up from it at about 4 in the morning. I usually need to wake up for work around 6 in the morning.

    I need to clarify that this guy was not my “ex.” I’ve never had an ex, as I’ve never had a real boyfriend. I’ve come extremely close, but I know, deep down, that the reason I haven’t had a real boyfriend by my late twenties is because every time I’ve come close, at the ages of 16, 18, 21, and 24, respectively, I have closed off my heart in fear and anger.

    This guy “almost” asked me out on a real date to see a play, but changed his mind after calling me and hearing my thought-provoking voicemail message. I kid you not.

    I wouldn’t call what I felt in the dream towards him “rage” necessarily. It was more kind of an irritated anger. Like he was in my way or something…

    I think my flying could represent how good I feel in my life right now. Moving forward with my career, taking a class, trying out for a music program that felt really scary, but exciting. I’ve been asked to take leadership positions and to organize functions. I’ve been feeling deeply respected lately.

    But I feel so hungry to feel love and cherished and protected. To be the kind of woman that CAN respect a man.

    It’s almost as though romantic relationships themselves are what feel like my biggest hindrance. It’s the one thing in my life that I can’t seem to see to completion. I just want someone to ask me for a commitment, but it’s like I can’t give a commitment myself (to myself?,) so how can I expect someone to ask me for one?

    I’ve gotten much better at leaning back and sinking into my feminine energy.

    But I love my boy and everything he’s been doing! He’s amazing!

    Hmm…I have a lot to chew on. I feel curious and a little scared. A little relieved and a little excited too. Thank you for your lovely thoughts, Lily Medusa!

  391.  #391Tam on September 11, 2012 at 11:43 am

    Smile, I know! I felt that similarity also, and am wonderin what will happen with strummingman – when is he coming round, on the weekend?
    Well, I am trying not to get too excited or have expectations, just trying to stay calm…but he has leant forward so much, it is really new for me and a little exciting. Hope it’s not because he feels safe as he is going away….moving away. I do wonder.

  392.  #392Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 11:47 am

    I have always felt competitive with men.

    Alpha men like it, and find it attractive I can tell. But Alpha men seem more and more scarce these days.

    I feel so attracted to a man who “gets” me, and plays with my little feisty self in verbal banter. I feel so attracted when a guy can shut me up and make me smile and not take myself so seriously.

    I’ve been told that I’m intimidating to a lot of men.

    I don’t know if I want to be with a man who is intimidated by me.

    I don’t want to be intimidating, I want to be inspiring.

    I want a man to be like “Wow. I better pursue the crap out of her until someone else snatches her up!”

    This feels rare, though. But it feels amazing when I can feel that energy from a man…

  393.  #393bloom-ing on September 11, 2012 at 11:52 am


    i’m feeling really moved reading your processing right now

    i actually just apologized to a co-worker because i felt like my “banter” had crossed a line into full-scale Competitive “against” a man i work with….

    i’m not sure about you, but i notice that with myself it is usually an attempt to “show” the guy that i am “off-limits”…… & there are reasons why i have this fear, but it’s ok for me to let it go now. thank you

    thanks for sharing your thoughts : )

  394.  #394Mel on September 11, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    Him: “Baby, what do you think about x…?”

    Me: “Mmmmmm… I like it when you call me baby. That feels happy to me.”

    Him: Big Smile. “I like you to feel happy.” 🙂

    Him: “How do you feel about x?”


  395.  #395Smile on September 11, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    Tam, he’s coming round Saturday. It feels so great to have him emailing and making plans to get us tea. There is a very slight feeling of weariness coming through, but it feels very faint. I feel confident I will look after my best interests and acknowledge my feelings along the way.

    The part that feels the best is that I feel Ive broken the cycle we were in. It’s true creating distance can inspire a man to chase you again .

    I’ve got scripts up my sleeve to honour my feelings around emailing… I want this to be mixed in with meeting up and phone calls. Only emailing would not serve me right now. Also that when I move I’m going to be open to meeting other people.

    If you have no expectations, it’s less likely to feel disappointing and surprises would feel great!!!!

  396.  #396ruth on September 11, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    Tam, I am feeling quite excited about your situation
    I feel sure that you will handle it well

    SA I can see you leaned back so much and brava for that(not sure i could have).But I feel anxious still.Can you keep doing that? Oh, I hope so! camt comment on the kiddy situ, not qualified as do not have any

    Starla you sound GREAT.Im just feeling curious.Do you feel lack of internet access has “helped” in some way.
    I am a bit of an on line junkie really

    Mizz lamabutterly-I feel raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrh reading your post.Um, thats not a word, but thats what i felt.You are YOU.SHINE!

  397.  #397Smile on September 11, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    Love it Mel, it’s all about the ‘feel’!

  398.  #398bloom-ing on September 11, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    alpha men are more likely to “take the bait” when i am “playing that game” & ramp up their “interest” or participation in the conversation — but i notice that in these cases, i “cross lines” & “raise stakes” of the humor to show them i don’t respect them. ouch

  399.  #399ruth on September 11, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    sorry, I am feeling all disconnected and weird tonight but just to Rebecca if you are still out there

    Cant recall the last time i had a good run

    Really cant

    But it is stil my life glue
    so keep going

    (I am starting a swim the channel challenge in 12 weeks-tis in a pool.Should be a laugh)

  400.  #400Siren Angel on September 11, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    Calypso @389,

    Thank you for your support! I really appreciate it. I have a good feeling about this one… not a scared in the tummy vibe one. Yes, vulnerable… but imagine all the new FMs I will be able to invent and share! I feel excited just at the thought of it.

    ‘I feel vulnerable in this surrender’

    Ahhh… sounds lovely and feminine!

    One other thing M told me last night is that he loves my femininity and that I am the only one so feminine he has ever met! He says I am the perfect woman and trying to let go was so hard for him… yet I am convinced he would not have changed positions.

  401.  #401Laughing Goddess on September 11, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    Oh yay! I just noticed an area where I have a victim mentality!!! I was just feeling really triggered about these two girls I know and thinking they were being catty, little biotches. And feeling really annoyed about how girls can just be catty in general and telling mr. Man that he doesnt understand because he’s a guy and guys don’t act like that. And basically feeling really triggered and feisty and thinking they were ganging up on me because they are jealous because I’m such a rockstar and and and

    I feel excited that I was able to see my victim mentality and now I don’t know exactly what to do next but awareness of patterns is a great first step.

    Now I guess I will feel my feelings about it.

    I feel pissed. I feel angry. I think they were being catty but I could also totally be taking something personal that wasn’t personal. Maybe their attitudes weren’t even directed towards me? They are both going through some tough times. Maybe that was the energy I was picking up on.

    They didn’t say anything rude to me. It was just weird because normally these two girls don’t even like each other. And now they are all buddy buddy and being snotty towards me?

    Hmmmm, I’ve got some work to do here

    I feel annoyed. I feel annoyed with myself too because I could be imagining all of this. I feel annoyed that I am even giving this any energy when I have so many other things I would like to put my energy into today.

    I know lots of wonderful women. I am loved and appreciated. Awww, I love me. Maybe they are a little jealous. I do have a pretty great life. But they have great lives too. We are all equal. Separation is an illusion. I don’t have to go down that path.

    This is some childhood trauma coming up. I’m a big girl now. Everything is gonna be okay.

    Just be love and this will work itself out.

    Stop giving energy to people you aren’t resonating with and remember all the people you are.

    Ahhhh, yes. And I am about to leave on a fun adventure.

    Let’s put energy into that.

    I know you feel sad little girl. Hugs to you. You are love, you are loved. That cannot be changed. Let’s watch our thoughts and create beauty today.

    What can we do today to nourish you?

  402.  #402Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    @393 bloom-ing – I feel so curious about how you’re reading me. I feel a little sad.

    I remember my mom losing her cool, and my dad, in an attempt to keep peace, “letting her have her way.”

    I never felt like she deserved “her way” when she acted like that. I felt resentment towards dad for letting her have her way.

    I wanted him to rebuke her. I wanted him to put her in her place. To tell her how wrong she was acting.

    Of course, I understand now how wounded she was.

    I understand how wounded he was too.

    But I’ve always wanted a man who wouldn’t shy away from standing up to me. I feel fear becoming like my mother, losing my cool about something that’s not really important. I feel fearful of a weak man who will let me lose my temper in front of my children, who will let me verbally abuse my children, when they’ve done nothing wrong. Nothing at all.

    I feel so teary…

  403.  #403Tam on September 11, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    Smile that sounds great!! Breaking the cycle!!! Feels like MrP and I have also..and he did most of it, I just stepped back. Still have major reservations, his sporadicness is one of them. But I see now that he only contacts when he has something to say, some news or a question. I can’t expect an alpha male (Marlborough man) with few words, to start behaving like a woman.
    So I don’t anymore! 🙂

    Ruth thank you!! 🙂

  404.  #404ruth on September 11, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    395 Smile

    I feel all warm at the mention of “tea”

    thats what I call it too and I feel connected
    I feel curious to hear the sound of your voice-do you have a Northern accent

  405.  #405bloom-ing on September 11, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    ruth, i “swam the channel” at the ymca when i was little : ))) i thought it felt fun & i felt really strong…. that was the first time i started to “exercise” outside of school & sports & i finally felt like a real human : )) i feel so scared when i’m about to do a physical challenge & there are other people who “care” “how” i do……. kind of shut down – like, ok, well, better to get eaten by lions than laughed at lol….

  406.  #406Tam on September 11, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    Ruth, Smile, me too. I love ‘tea’ – it makes me miss the UK and my bestest friend ever, in Wales, who calls lunch ‘dinner’ and dinner ‘tea’. Oooh, love her!! Nostalgia

  407.  #407Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    I guess I want to test the men who show interest in me. Now that I think about it, I used to do it all the time.

    I would push every button I saw.

    I only fall for men who I feel are strong enough for me. If I feel like the stronger one, I can’t respect that. I need to respect my man, and I know he needs to feel that respect too.

  408.  #408Laughing Goddess on September 11, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    What can we do to nourish me?

    Find something really yummy to eat. I feel so hungry and nothing sounds appetizing.

    That’s my mission for now, it find something deliscious to eat. Mmmm, I’m getting some ideas.

    Raw lemon cheesecake. Holy cow. I don’t normally eat sweets but this sounds amazing right now.

    And it’s got healthy sugars so I won’t feel crappy afterwards!

  409.  #409ruth on September 11, 2012 at 12:22 pm


    you dont sound like a victim to me at all actually

    You sound like an astute woman in control who wont let silly catty biatches get to her

    If i were a cat I would swish my big tail in approval!

  410.  #410Tam on September 11, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    Lama, I get that. I need a strong man too, one whom I can admire a little and respect. It’s not easy to find 🙂

  411.  #411Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    ug, I feel frustrated and tight in my chest. Mom didn’t respect Dad. Dad didn’t love Mom. What a vicious cycle.

    I REALLY struggle with respecting men.

    I feel like I can do anything they can (with the exception of strong muscle-type-things, logical things, mathematical things, directions.)

    I hate that stereo-type, but I really would like a man who can handle these areas since I am weak in them.

  412.  #412Daria on September 11, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    uhoh i was feeling sooo hungry and i canceled on my firend here when she said we werent going somewhere whwere we can eat and then explained over text and now i called And texted her again and now i feel … vulnerable

    and also i felt pist that they would select a place to go with no food knowing that i like food out and i felt mad actually super mad about that cuz i was hungry and had planned my meal around going out

    but now i ate a lil bit and am feeling more calm and am feeling scared taht i was ‘a bitch’ by saying im not going and

    just feeling all panicked and like i dont deserve/ cant handle friends and

    still feeling both resentful AND worried

    and blah

    i can just sidestep this and keep doing fun things

    ‘i dont need anyone’

    i dont want to be without anyone


  413.  #413Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    I feel fear that I won’t be loved when my horribleness comes out. When my rage comes out. When my crazy comes out.

    What evidence do I have that I won’t be loved?

    I’ve never let anyone get that close to me…to see the horrible, the rage, the crazy…

    What if he found it fascinating? Beautiful? Something to work with? Something to channel?

    Now I feel really sad again.

    I feel seperate from the little girl inside me. I feel like a grown woman, greiving for the little girl.

  414.  #414Calypso on September 11, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    400 SA – That’s what a Siren is for . . . To beg you not to jump off the cliff, but once you do . . . yell, “Swim, Swim, Swim” . . . lol. It’s not like you can turn back now – go for it with everything you’ve got and be his SIREN – the man doesn’t stand a chance! Enjoy this time ~

  415.  #415Daria on September 11, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    uhoh i was feeling sooo hungry and i canceled on my firend here when she said we werent going somewhere whwere we can eat and then explained over text and now i called And texted her again and now i feel … vulnerable

    and also i felt pist that they would select a place to go with no food knowing that i like food out and i felt mad actually super mad about that cuz i was hungry and had planned my meal around going out

    but now i ate a lil bit and am feeling more calm and am feeling scared taht i was ‘a bit*ch’ by saying im not going and

    just feeling all panicked and like i dont deserve/ cant handle friends and

    still feeling both resentful AND worried

    and blah

    i can just sidestep this and keep doing fun things

    ‘i dont need anyone’

    i dont want to be without anyone


  416.  #416Laughing Goddess on September 11, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    Feeling better, less triggered, more focused on how I can care for myself.

    This feels way better.

    I’ve been eating really well lately but I think I might need even more calories, especially after I have band practice because I expend so much energy playing.

    And then I get really sensitive when I am hungry.

    Okay body, I got the message. Thank you for communicating with me. I will put more energy in eating healthy foods. I’ve been doing great but it can get even better.

    I feel a deep breath exhale and a smile creeping on my face.

  417.  #417Mel on September 11, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    We were at the grocery store, buying a few essentials and I slipped a yummy chocolate bar in at the till. I flashed a little smile and he laughed.

    The cashier said “I didn’t see anything…” to him (as she scanned it through). So I put another one on the till. He said “sharing?” I said: “Nope. (huge smile) … one for now and one for later.”

    Some other customer said: “You better be real good and maybe you’ll be lucky.” He said “I just AM lucky” and gave me a kiss.

  418.  #418Daria on September 11, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    she texted back shes not mad. i feel relieved. theyre already out tho… dang it woulda felt fun to go out with them after all. but i got the impression tehy were going to a dance club and now it seems theyre just out for a juice… so not as much CD possibility anyway 🙂

    im feeling more calm

  419.  #419ruth on September 11, 2012 at 12:34 pm


    Big smile
    I feel happy reading that
    People always thought i *couldnt* do stuff either
    I am not frail

    I am strong
    I FEEL strong

  420.  #420ruth on September 11, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Oh heck, i cant keep up!

  421.  #421Goddess Lily on September 11, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    Lol at Calypso. I agree with Calypso. Sounds like you have a plan now SA. Go for it!

  422.  #422Laughing Goddess on September 11, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    And I also realize that I feel triggered because I am not expressing my boundary with the band because I have a really complicated part and I have been having to play by myself lately because one guy got kicked out/quit and the other girl hasn’t been coming to practice lately, so I have a lot to cover and it feels physically exhausting. It also feels awesome. I feel kinda rockstar-ish because I am holding down such a complex part on my own, but I need some support. Or I need to start training and build up my physical stamina. I feel unsure of what the answer is just yet, but I’m starting to realize I might need some help.

  423.  #423ruth on September 11, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    Miz butterfly

    There is this quotation i cant quite recall but it goes something along thr lines of that we are more afraid of our shining light/success than of failure

    Is that you?


  424.  #424Laughing Goddess on September 11, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    And more calories to support all this physical exertion.

  425.  #425Laughing Goddess on September 11, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    Thanks Ruth. That made me smile. I feel hugged and loved. Thank you.

  426.  #426ruth on September 11, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    I am roasting sone potatoes and red onions and tomatoes and peeprs in a little olive oil
    I also wanted to eat well

    But, I am not sure if i can be bothered to eat
    GAH, so i will be chewing table legs tomorrow and eating rubbish if I dont

    Stupid head!

  427.  #427Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    wow, I just had this realization about this way younger guy who is clearly into me.

    I am a powerful woman.
    His mom is a powerful woman.

    Like, to the point where I feel like she wears the pants in her marriage. She seriously does everything but bring home the bacon.

    She makes all the decisions for the family. organizes everything. Is the speaker of the family.

    I don’t want to be that.
    It frustrates me that this younger guy NEVER rows the boat.
    I want to be the feminine energy partner.

    How can I change this, without changing who I am?

    Can I love who I am now?
    Can I love a different, more feminine version of me?

    I feel confused…

  428.  #428bloom-ing on September 11, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    ((((iamabutterfly)))) i think you sound love-ly

  429.  #429ruth on September 11, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    424 LG
    I feel intrigued

    what kind of a band do you play in?

  430.  #430ruth on September 11, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    Boy oh boy, I know what you are saying here

  431.  #431ruth on September 11, 2012 at 12:47 pm


    Just a thought, and i amy be *way* off beam here
    But part of my wanting to be in control and organise things and be in boy energy and be strong stems from a massive need to be a prefectionist
    Which may just be me, but may also have roots in never feeling *good enough*, however successful i was

    Not sure if this is relevant, just putting it out there

  432.  #432bloom-ing on September 11, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    ruth, when i don’t feel like it, i don’t make myself eat dinner. i just cover up the plate well & wake super early & have a triple extra good breakfast & i love it & i feel so good to eat lots of food first thing in the morning : )) waking hungry feels good to me (but i do make sure i’m up extra early if i skip so i can catch it before the low blood sugar…)

    the flip side for me is if i eat & then sleep too soon, my body stops trying to digest while i sleep & i feel sick in the morning : ( so better i say to eat happily tomorrow than forcibly today lol

  433.  #433Daria on September 11, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    guess what Daria did for me!!!! she washed my HAIRRRRRR

    yayyyyy 🙂

    no wonder i feel so fresh and breathably expansive

  434.  #434bloom-ing on September 11, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    i was in therapy for a few years for “ocd”…. & i remember the poor lady asking me over & over “why ?” & every time i would try telling her….. how the world looked like Geometry to me, & i really really did not want the whole thing to “fall apart” because *i* could not figure out a way to be a “perfect” 90-degree angle.

    turns out, there is room for everyone

  435.  #435Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    “Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us.” – Marianne Williamson

  436.  #436Laughing Goddess on September 11, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    Hi Ruth, I play in a funky, percussion, hip hop band. It’s kinda like a marching band but we actually don’t do that much marching. It’s kinda hard to describe. We also have an electronic element and have lots of guest MC’s.

    I play a big bass drum that I have strapped to my hips. Its really fun and physically and mentally challenging. We aren’t super big or anything but have become pretty popular in my area.

    It feels really fun to be a part of.

    I realized though, through my process that a lot of my anger and frustration has to do more with not taking care of myself and expressing my needs within the band, more than about those catty

  437.  #437bloom-ing on September 11, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    laughing goddess…..

    lol i have been drafting responses in my head to you for days & days now…………………………………

    & i still can’t quite “do it” lol….. maybe later. i’d feel good to express myself & connect with you.

    : )

    (((laughing goddess))) thanks!

  438.  #438Daria on September 11, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    wow so this guy ive been dodging on skype is freakin HOT

    my eeys feel teary

  439.  #439ruth on September 11, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    434 thats the one lama

    I feel good reading it again

    thank you Bloom-ing

    I have had food issues all ways so regualr meals would be better for me as i dont pick up body cues so well any motre

  440.  #440Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    @430 ruth – oh, absolutely. I used to be a perfectionist, but it was too difficult, so I gave up.

    I’d rather be real, I’d rather be genuine.

    but I do feel good being in boy energy.
    You have to be in boy energy sometimes, even in marriage.

    how do I feel in girl energy?

    I feel impatient sometimes.
    Sometimes I feel lazy.

    I’ve also felt good being in girl energy though.
    I feel melty and stress-less and carefree in girl energy.

    It just kind of makes me feel mad though, how guys give you all this attention for doing nothing?

    For just being?

    Why do I feel angry about that kind of attention?

  441.  #441Femininewoman on September 11, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    Siren Angel the comments about last night sounds like he is invested. I know each situation is different and you are in it. I can only encourage you to stand by yourself and pay attention to your intuition.

    I know of coaches who suggest taking risks when the man is invested. One risk is stepping away from him. Sorry to say it but the hugging the pillow conversation reminded me of Eat, Pray, Love where the author suggests we use each other to scratch an itch. I see your situation as a crisis that he is rescuing you from not one where he missed you so badly that he collapsed on himself and came on bended knees. However, what you wrote suggests that his energy is coming towards you so I can only wish you the best and hope it all works out. However, just because he did not use the “friend” word does not mean he is not thinking it. If he brings up the conversation again I would want to know what he sees for us. Particularly if there is no sex.

  442.  #442Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    i feel guilty that other girls don’t get attention.
    I feel guilty that my boy doesn’t get attention.

    yuck, this doesn’t feel good.

  443.  #443Laughing Goddess on September 11, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    Blooming: whenever you’re ready, I feel open…a little scared but mostly open. 🙂

  444.  #444bloom-ing on September 11, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    gosh i feel

    laughing goddess, i feel actually super amused because for the life of me, i cannot STOP. wanting to “explain” a few things to you……. LOL & it has me really crxcking up…… “because” — i can kind of feel my Warrior energy like….. “sharpening my weapons” lol & i super don’t want to “go to battle” “against” you at all. not only because you explicitly requested it, but because it feels like “exactly what we were talking about” lol…. anywayz…. shy smile : )

  445.  #445ruth on September 11, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    LG, that sounds fab
    are you on facebok or u tube or something?

    I used to do music when i was a *lot* younger

  446.  #446Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    I feel really triggered. I have this belief that men in history have been more valued than women.

    I feel triggered by men feeling resentful of women.

    because “women have it so easy.”

    Do you know what it feels like for a girl?
    Strong inside but you don’t know it,
    good little girls they never show it.
    When you open up your mouth to speak, could you be a little weak?

  447.  #447Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    and now men are resentful of women because “we’re doing everything.”

    and women feel resentful of men because “they don’t do anything.”

    Where is all this resentment coming from?

    Why does there have to be roles?

    Why can’t we just be who we naturally are?

  448.  #448Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    Men don’t feel needed. Women feel exhausted.

  449.  #449Smile on September 11, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    Ha ha, Dinner and tea! That’s me!

    I have a northern accent! Cross between Cheshire and Manchester- really I’m a posher speaking mancunian. sometimes a slight slight scouse twang comes out lol!

    He he, tam I imagine your accent to be jumbled up lol! What’s yours like Ruth?

  450.  #450bloom-ing on September 11, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    oh, gosh, feel a bit embarrassed, as even that sounds a bit……………………………… “sharp” to me. sorry, lg – i’m trying !

  451.  #451ruth on September 11, 2012 at 1:06 pm


    I am in boy energy for a LOT of the time
    Not just work, though I do have to be there
    Unless its quiet and then i can just laugh and joke and be *me* with my patients

    but sometimes it does feel as though being in boy energy holds me together

    Im not so good at letting go control
    I dont think letting go of control is a bad thing, not at all, but it sometimes feels unsafe
    And so much of my life has been in flux over the last fe years that sometimes I cling to control as a life raft

  452.  #452Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    why can’t we just switch hats all the time and just go with what feels natural? with whatever keeps us happy?

    Ug, I hate this.

    I don’t know why I feel so annoyed and angry at assumed roles, at men not filling their “presumed” role, at women “overstepping their bounds.”

    This feels so gross.

    I always feel so angry when I see women “taking charge” in relationships, and I feel angry because I feel like THEY are the ones who win!

    Not me. Not me who desperately longs for the man to take charge. I always lose!

    I feel angry and sad.

  453.  #453ruth on September 11, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    I had never thought of it in this way until a couple of moths ago when i discovered Roris stuff9actually, i got CC stuff first)

  454.  #454Smile on September 11, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    Ruth, 425 less of the stupid head! 

  455.  #455bloom-ing on September 11, 2012 at 1:11 pm


    “why can’t we just switch hats all the time and just go with what feels natural? with whatever keeps us happy?”

    that’s how i imagine “The Dance” that Rori talks about : ) back & forth & back & forth & switch up the tempo ! how fun !!!!!!!!!!

    i have a big man in me, a mischievous boy, a sweet, shy girl, & a silent woman : ) they get along…. pretty well. things could be better, but ! dance !!!! lol

  456.  #456Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    woman: “you’re not doing it, RIGHT.”
    man thinks: “okay, so I won’t do it at all.”

    woman says: “thank you.”
    man feels validated, does more.


  457.  #457Smile on September 11, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    451 lamabutterfly

    I totally felt like this at first. Now I feel differently. I managed to have a 10 year relationship being totally in boy energy. However it didn’t give me the connected relationship I’m looking for. I only realise that now. That’s why I’m here.

    Also I have discovered that I use to view woman with strong boundaries as in masculine energy. This perception of mine feels alien now.

  458.  #458Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    Why do I feel so furious about these roles?

    I think I know why.


    IT DOES!!

    What she does or doesn’t do determines everything!

    It’s like…he gets to be the one to just “do what he’s doing.”

    he’s just doing what he’s doing.


  459.  #459Daria on September 11, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    hmm maybe he was tryna scam me for a cross country invitation

    bad move cute man bad move

    how u gonna scam a 3rd world girl

  460.  #460Tam on September 11, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    448..ooooh Smile, I’d love to hear you speak.
    My accent, well, mad basically, not German (apparently). When I first moved to the Channel Islands after having been in Wales, people thought I was Welsh..haha..but I lost that again and now I just sound weird apparently, nobody knows where I am from, Americans think I am British, Brits think I am ‘maybe’ British but not from their parts…so I have no idea what I sound like!
    I am just a mix, me.

  461.  #461Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    I want to just be who I am and do what I do and feel what I feel and I don’t want to be told what to do!

    I feel like I’ve been told what to do my whole life, and I’m so sick of it!

    I want to DO WHAT I WANT TO DO!

    and now I feel embarassed because I feel like I sound like a spoiled brat.


    but I also CRAVE Relationship!

    I feel like the two can’t go hand in hand?

    There’s all this dependence and switching hats and waiting around and boy and girl energy and it just feels exhausting!

    We are never get back together.

    Like ever.

  462.  #462ruth on September 11, 2012 at 1:18 pm


    yes lama

    I do *get* that

    But it isnt always like that

    Mostly, its my experience too
    But sometimes i am surprised
    Hm, I dunno, maybe we are just trying too hard

    I dont like the idea of roles either

    I really dont
    It feels like it ought to come naturally


    Need to think

    I would like everyone to be on an even level in my team , but that does not always happen and there is conflict.Ok, this is work related, but there is a bit of overlap.When it works for a woman and a man, you can vary the roles, no? Would have to be a *very* solid relationship , no?

  463.  #463Daria on September 11, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    maybe i just got confused and he jsut wants to see me tho

    but he has to make it happen on his own


    i want the ones who make it happen on their own!

    i might be scared of those

    also that 3rd world girl thing is a superiority complex

    which is also a victim mentality complex

    a separation complex

    i want to heal this

    and get even MORE POWER AND SELF ESTEEM AND SELF WORTH than i have by using this complex as a cover


  464.  #464Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    She’s just being who SHE is! Dang, that feels empowering!

    Why do I feel so triggered by “He’s just being who he is?”

    is who he is not enough?

    I am enough!

    I’m awesome!

    Maybe it’s the stupid men who need to change!


  465.  #465Tam on September 11, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    ..there was a funny moment when MrP said we go to watch the Hockey, except he said ‘Hackey’….nice American pronounciation. And I sat in the car saying quietly to myself ‘Hockey, Hackey, Hockey…hmmm..but it has an ‘o’ in it’ and then he said ‘ ‘Hockey’ then’ . And I laughed a lot.
    I LOVE language and accents…looooove it.

  466.  #466ruth on September 11, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    Smile, apologies
    The stupid head has a nice tidy hairdo tonight as ive been to the hairdresser.Wel, i t will last till my next run LOL

    No idea what accent i have now
    18 years in Yorkshire, 13 in London, 8 in wales, 6 in the Black countroi and now back in wales
    G*d knows!

  467.  #467ruth on September 11, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    Right on butterfly

  468.  #468Daria on September 11, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    he is saying he does not want to scam me he knows romania is a poor country w poor people

    i feel all smily

    more victim complex

    heal heal

    i want all the self esteem i get from my complexes Without the complexes

    and i dont want to have to cut off all teh people i know from my life !

    i feel pfff breathe out

  469.  #469Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    I feel angry because of the advice out there for men being so much simpler than the advice out there for women.

    It’s like, men just need to do specific action-oriented things and BAM results.

    but women have to heal themselves psychologically and practically have a degree in psychology and help the men heal through healing themselves, and dang, why can’t a girl get some help around here?

    I feel like God is the ultimate Help for girl.
    Woman was created to be a Helper for Man.

    Did you know that Helper describes what God does for man in the Bible?

    So woman does have a god-like role for man.

    Being a godess to a man feels scary.

    It feels like a huge responsibility.

    I feel sad.

    Ug and tense.

    Tense and sad.

    I hate feeling tense and sad and angry and confused!


  470.  #470Daria on September 11, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    he was probably not tryna scam me

    hmmm sigh

    healing judgements and fears and all that stuff


  471.  #471Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    and now I feel curious about this relationship of fear and anger.

    Do they always go hand in hand?


  472.  #472Calypso on September 11, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    Tomorrow I take my 20 year old to the Children’s Hospital a couple of hours from home to have his Bone Marrow tested. He has been taking Chemo for Childhood Leukemia for 2 1/2 years. If he is clear tomorrow, he gets to stop taking the chemo and I am terrified! I have a sense of reasurance when he is taking his meds . . . the Leukemia can’t come back and no other ugly form of Cancer is likely to crop up, but once he stops . . . every time we go get his blood checked (monthly for the next 5 years!), I am going to feel a panic in my chest. Being the single Mother of 3 young men is tough . . . doing it with Feminine Energy is tougher . . . I need my Boy Energy for so much!

  473.  #473Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    I hate how all the girls who were “right after me” look at me, treat me, and respond to me.

    It’s like they want to protect their stupid husbands who rejected me. Or like they feel threatened by me.



  474.  #474Tam on September 11, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    Oh Jeepers, he emailed again..hehe

  475.  #475Tam on September 11, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    471….oooh Calypso..good luck with that!!!!
    ((((Calypsos son))))

  476.  #476Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    @471 Calypso – Oh, sweetie I feel so humbled. Bless you. Perspective. ((((Calypso)))) You’re amazing!

    I will pray for you!

  477.  #477Smile on September 11, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    He Ruth, there’s some strong accents in there lol. I bet I could tell you if I heard you.

    Oo it would feel lovely to have a haircut. Mines gotten soo long!

    Tam, do you pick accents up easily? I’m picking up other people’s accents from work at the minute. Soon you’ll sound American!

    Tam you should get a gravatar! 

  478.  #478ruth on September 11, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    I will try again , fliing net connection

    the fact that it all “falls on” the woman feels EMPOWERING to me
    I read that as the woman having a choice and control of the outcome

    Now okay, Im not so good at applying the stuff in real life, but i an totally signed up to the concept

  479.  #479Tam on September 11, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    Smile, yes I could get a gravatar but I don’t want people to start recognising me as I have talked too much already…hehe.
    Are you on Siren Island?
    You should get on there, if not….we can all see each other/photos etc. It’s a secret group so feels safe from prying eyes 😉

  480.  #480Smile on September 11, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    Tam, yey

  481.  #481Dominique on September 11, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    Iamabutterfly – Read this. It may help with your feelings of frustration.

    As for fear and anger, these are my thoughts. There are only two emotions, love and fear. Under any good feeling emotions is love. Under any bad feeling emotions is fear. So under anger is fear.


  482.  #482Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    @454 bloom-ing – I love that. Thanks. Feels calming.

  483.  #483Smile on September 11, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    Tam, no I’m not on siren island. Hm I feel weary as to how secret? It would feel nice to be a part of it though!

  484.  #484ruth on September 11, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    471 Calypso-I wish you and your son all the best tomorrow

  485.  #485Mel on September 11, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    457: iamabutterfly

    What she does or doesn’t do determines everything!

    It’s like…he gets to be the one to just “do what he’s doing.”

    For me, I don’t really see ‘roles’ so much as I see energy. Both partners just ‘do what they’re doing’ and we respond to the energy that the ‘doing’ gives off.

    Like, if he’s got a negative, grumpy energy… I can choose to respond by trying to “change” his energy, or I can choose to move toward some more positive energy. I prefer the latter. I’m just doing what I’m doing (choosing happiness) despite his mood.

    If I’m feeling all disconnected and lonely and like my energy circuit’s broken, I can choose to spit out sparks and likely keep my partner away… or I can choose to mend the disconnect within myself. I can choose to take that reaching, chasing, grabbing energy and give it back to myself so that I can re-balance my power-supply. Spewed sparks are wasted energy.

    I’m not feeling sure if this is making much sense… but mostly, what I’m getting at is that it doesn’t matter if you are a man or a woman, each action (choice) will have a corresponding reaction. And you make those choices based on your ‘best’ in any given moment.

  486.  #486Goddess Lily on September 11, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    Wait, theres a siren fb and a siren island? I’m feeling a bit uninformed.

  487.  #487Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    Thanks, Dominique.

  488.  #488ruth on September 11, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    Rambling like a good un tonight, but hey what the h*ll
    To me the boy energy is ll bout doing and sorting stuff out
    Now the girl energy *should* feel relaxing.but it seems so hard to do!

  489.  #489Tam on September 11, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    Radlove, maybe you feel to explain about Siren Island and invite people if you like?
    I don’t feel ‘qualified’.. 🙂

  490.  #490Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    okay, so now I’m thinking about younger guy’s mom. I love her, and she doesn’t seem masculine at all. She’s very feminine.

    but then, her husband doesn’t seem masculine, either.

    I guess I’m just feel scared of being in an exhausting marriage.

    but all great relationships take great work don’t they?

    including and especially the relationship with ourselves?

    it feels better to think of it like that…

  491.  #491Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    a hot shower would feel great. mmm…and a nap. and some tea with honey. and music.

    I want to sink into those relaxing feelings of loveliness.

  492.  #492Calypso on September 11, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Thanks for the hugs and prayers, Sirens. between my baby going away to USMC Boot Camp for 3 months (he leaves in 6 days and we will have zero contact other than letters for 3 months) and my middle son getting his bone marrow test and my oldest son being away for 2 weeks with work, I’m feeling a little lost right now. I have been cooking a lot of comfort food for myself and the boys . . . not sure what else to do. Breathe . . . eat . . . repeat ~

  493.  #493Iamabutterfly on September 11, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    PMS feels like a good little booger to blame for my “freak out.”