If you’ve ever seen your husband throw a “hissy fit” – then you know what it feels like to stand there and watch it happen. It feels awful. You want to jump in and order him around, you want to stand between your husband and your children, you want to shame him and all of a sudden you feel alone in the marriage – like you’re the only sane grown-up around.

Since I happen to LIVE with a man (my husband, Jeffrey Levine) who’s a marriage and parenting coach as well as an executive business coach (and we can talk about what that’s like…), I asked him to answer the question for us (I love having a man’s point of view, and this was the perfect question for it):

“Dear Rori,
Last night my husband threw a hissy fit (it started with our son who who has been having some trouble with his homework) and when I tried to talk to him he would NOT listen – kept cutting me off, telling me “I don’t want to hear it” and that he already knew what I had to say. I know more about what’s going on with my son’s school work than he does, but he had his mind made up about it. He made me so angry and I realized I was never going to get him to listen so I clammed up.

Later he tried to be extra nice (his way of “apologizing”), took me out to a neighborhood bar to get a couple of drinks, but I was just seething inside. Sat there at the bar and barely spoke to him the whole evening…then we come home and he’s all over me and wants to make love. Blech. That just made me angrier with him and pull away even more.

I said he’s been trying, which he has, but last night was a major slip up on his part. I don’t know how to handle it when he doesn’t listen – a bad, bad habit of his. It’s the same routine….he interrupts, cuts me off, yells. Then I start yelling because I want to be HEARD…but of course that never works anyway. The only response I have is to give him the silent treatment…and it’s not really conscious, it just happens because I get so mad. It’s so frustrating not to be listened to.”

Here’s Jeffrey’s reply:

Certainly one of the most frustrating feelings is when we feel like we aren’t heard. When someone’s yelling, it’s impossible for them to listen. And ironically, yelling is also a sure way to NOT be heard. When he was yelling he obviously couldn’t hear you. When you were yelling at your husband, were you listening to him? Most likely not.

So, how do we get heard, if volume isn’t the answer? The formula is: Timing plus Authenticity minus Blame equals Effective Communication (T+A-B=EC)

You mentioned that he took you out to a bar and you were “seething inside” and that you “barely spoke to him the whole evening.” This behavior is your attempt to get back at him. Lord knows he deserves it. Yet, what is it you really want? Do you want to be heard? Do you want your husband to “get” you?

In that place where he’s most vulnerable, when he knows he messed up, is the place he is the most approachable.

Men are predictable in this way – when we know we messed up we are very poor at knowing how to fix it, so we are open to hearing you.

It’s at this point that you have a decision to make. That is the decision to express your feelings, your needs, and your frustrations, in a way that doesn’t blame or accuse him. If you choose to lash out and treat him as badly as he’s treated you, you will compound the problem.

The last thing I want to do here is excuse his behavior. However, what you might not realize is that you had far more power in this situation than you thought. We guys, after we act boorish, are often apologetic and try to make “nice nice.” When this happens, that is your opening.

The most powerful way to do this is to use “I” statements and avoid all versions of “you did this to me.”

For instance, you might say: “Sweetheart, I know you’re trying to be extra nice to me, and I appreciate that, but I still feel hurt about our little episode earlier. Can we talk about that?” If he’s open to it, make sure you stay with “I” statements: “I feel completely disrespected when we have that kind of exchange.”

If he shuts you down, yells again, storms off, then he isn’t ready. Express to him that you’re ready and willing to talk when he is.

In my ebook I discuss in depth how to identify the actual problem and then how to articulate it to him without blame and judgment.

For now, the answer is to NOT give him the silent treatment, but instead to speak your pain honestly, authentically without blame.

From Rori:

The amazing thing to notice about Jeffrey’s answer is that he, as a man and a long-time personal coach, has the exact same answer I would give – only with a man’s “energy” coming through in a very firm way – he’s very, very clear about a man’s behavior – and what’s so powerful for me is that he’s saying men KNOW what they’re doing.

They KNOW when they’re being jerks, or “messing up.”

It’s like they ASSUME they will do these “boorish” things.

And also, his “I” statements are exactly what we’re talking about as “Feeling Messages” – and so you get a great idea of what a man can and can’t HEAR.

Let me know how this post relates to the more everyday issues you’re facing with your man – even if children aren’t involved at all.

Love, Rori

296 Comments

  1.  #1Senior Lady Vibe on November 28, 2010 at 8:54 am

    Top of the World!



  2.  #2Senior Lady Vibe on November 28, 2010 at 9:29 am

    @Rosa:
    “…SLV – I love that flippy-skirt feeling . I feel soft and everything is very much more possible in a flippy skirt! I have decided to sew one when i get home , I have it ready to go… I love your flippy feeling of excitement because then I get to feel my excitement too…”

    I’ll look at sewing patterns this week too. I used to have a stash, deleted those too (dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb!) I used to save “classic patterns” and those were tossed too. Sorry to say, but also glad, I’ve found and repurchased a few of the same pattern numbers on eBay.

    I seem to wear jeans and pants most of the time but there is nothing like a flippy skirt or little pencil skirt to increase flirting potential. Even when I’m wearing flat shoes with them, I feel different. What do you think?

    SLV



  3.  #3Senior Lady Vibe on November 28, 2010 at 9:37 am

    I’ll read post later. I’m out of the father/children game. I’m kind of happy that choosing a father is no longer part of my requirements in man choosing. I wish everyone well in finding guys who will fill the role of father and also be a good husband.

    SLV



  4.  #4marina on November 28, 2010 at 11:11 am

    Hmmm, I wonder if this works with male colleagues too, since most of my colleagues are men… 😉

    Rosa, hurray for your unconscious empathy!

    Actually Daria’s and Alias Girl’s feeling statements are my example for now.

    I am just playing along with the feeling statements.
    Sometimes it seems to me it’s more like
    I am sad
    and still when I say
    I feel sad
    it feels much more like the truth

    But still, I feel have to admit it is not always that strong. It is very strong when my emotions are very strong (positive ones and negative ones), then I am (feel?) kind of overwhelmed by my emotions and it feels so easy to speak them out loud.

    I guess when I start to think too much, I no longer really feel it, I am more summing everything up and actually don’t really take the time to really feel it, hmm, does that make sense?



  5.  #5Plum on November 28, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    Joël died.
    He was 54.

    He was diagnosed with a spot in the lungs in July 2010.
    He started chemotherapy the same week he was diagnosed.

    He was doing better, then he ached all over, he could not move, so he went to the hospital.
    Yesterday, they gave him morphine and he felt relieved.
    He fell peacefully asleep.
    He died while sleeping.
    He has what he wanted.
    He did not want to die, he did not want to see himself dying.
    He does not know he is dead, he thinks he is asleep.

    I don’t know what I feel.
    I might throw up, I don’t know.
    I can’t have the world without Joël on it, I feel orphan, I feel afraid.

    I feel happy he went on a trip to Madagascar in June 2010.
    He had not given himself the permission to just let it go, spend money on a dream and just do it.

    He thought the dream of a sport car was necessary to be worthy, the dream of such a nice house was necessary to be worthy.
    But a trip was money spend on just that: a dream with no external signs proving he was worthy.

    He did it in June 2010, just on time. He felt the first symptoms in July 2010.
    He came back from his trip so surprised by the reality of other people’s lives, the relativity of happiness, the relativity of the worthiness of a life.

    He came back different, and ready to enjoy life.
    WTF
    I feel frustrated, he worked so hard to pay a flashy sport car and house, to feel worthy.
    He is dead.
    He did not reach the age of retirement, he did not have time to enjoy life.

    He reproduced himself, though, within 3 beautiful adults who themselves gave 3 beautiful human beings.
    He enjoyed them until the last minute and he gave them the example of a life of tenacity.

    I am not worthy of his strength, I feel weak.
    I feel afraid because he is dead.
    I wish I could cry and get rid of the sensibility in my guts, under my belly, like if fear was in there, and the need to throw up.

    I never cry when people die, I never know what I feel.
    But I don’t feel fear.
    Why am I afraid, like orphan, lost in the universe?

    He was a friend.
    We had long decided he was not good to me as a lover and he was not at all within my Cdating pool.
    He really was my friend. I met him in 1998.

    In May 2009, I realized my ex imaginary lover was going to vanish any day. I felt panicked.
    I phoned Joël.
    I said
    “I can’t say why or what, but I can’t make it on my own.
    I feel I am being sucked into an abysmal whirl into hell.
    I don’t even know why.”

    he said
    “Put your cloths on; I am coming to pick you up”
    He drove the hour that separates us, and he showed at my door.
    I hopped in his car and off we went to his house.

    He cooked a barbecue for me, he bought the best Tbone steaks, because I love it, he opened a bottle of champagne.

    I forced myself laughing, I felt panic was eating my guts.
    But it worked, after a while I was sincerely laughing with him.

    At some stage during the evening, I remembered my lover, I felt the hurt and panic crawling back, so I said
    “I need to come across to you and hugg you strongly, I really need love now, may I?”
    He opened his arms and I went to hide in them
    I sat on his lap and I hugged him like I suppose I would have hugged my Father when I was a child, if he had been the hugging type.

    He was trembling, I realized his desire for me had never vanished after all the years
    I said
    “I feel like a baby in your arms, I need so much to be treated like a baby just now”
    he kissed my cheeks and said
    “yes you are a big baby, you have always been, just rest you head on my shoulder”
    It was good and salvation for me

    We slept in his bed.
    He hugged me all night and I could sleep. I woke up rested.

    We walked around his town, there was a fair that week end
    He knew I was coming back from a trip with a man.
    But I did not want to speak of D with him at all or with anybody.
    He said
    “You have been so silent. I did not know you could breath without speaking.”

    I tried to make a joke:
    “You are my friend, not a lover, so I can be tolerant of what you are.
    Nothing you do can interfere in my style of life; so the control freak can sleep inside me.
    I don’t need to tell you off and to show you what you should do to fit my own life. I don’t feel the need to comment anything you do unless you ask me to.”

    He said
    “ hmmm yes, whatever you mean with all that.
    Yet I know you, you always jump all over the place, you laugh at anything.
    You are not in your body right now.
    Seems like you met a man you really like this time, and you are not finding the experience enjoyable “

    Oh yes I really liked D and oh no I was not enjoying myself infatuated with D.

    I hold Joël’s hand in silence, he let it go and put his arm around my shoulder and we walked an hour like that.

    Years before, in 2007, when he realized his second brand new wife did not love him, he phoned me.
    I hold his hand on the phone every night during a few weeks.
    We shared a few weekends after she left.
    I was talkative and happy because he needed me to be just that. It was him who was not inside his body that time.
    He suffered, he loved her.

    The official divorce paper arrived in June 2009, a month after he saved me from my panic attack.
    I was at his house when he got the mail.
    I could feel it was like the last blow he could ever take in his life.

    A month later, he was at his daughter’s party with his girl friend. He said to me later
    “Everybody was happy, and suddenly my life hit me in the face.
    I don’t have anybody to share happy old souvenirs with, I don’t have a nucleus, I am on my own, I did not built anything.
    I stepped outside to watch the kiddies playing in the garden and there, I felt something teared inside, I can’t explain.
    Tears rolled down my cheeks although I was not aware of being crying.
    I could not stay up, I had to sit.
    I could not drive either, my girl friend drove me home.
    I lock the front door with the key now, I had never in my life locked a door before.”

    I told him it was the divorce being so real now in black and white letters, he is reacting at last.
    I told him he did build a family, his children are happy and healthy and building their own lives;
    I told him he was being self centered, which stops him from relativising life.
    I told him if he could look around him, he would see most men do not have their first partner with them.
    They don’t have anybody to share older souvenirs either.
    I don’t have anybody to share my older souvenirs either.
    I don’t have anybody to share a dream with either.
    Such is life.
    I told him he had a steady job with the government, that the law makes impossible he can be fired
    He had incomes insured until the day he dies [ 🙁 ]
    He had the best health insurance on the planet [ 🙁 ]
    He had a beautiful house all paid for
    He had the car he dreamt of
    He was building an apartment by the sea side to enjoy the summer
    He can enjoy life at last, all is there for him now.
    He did built a family, who is busy being happy
    His life has been useful to his children whom he finished raising on his own, after the first wife left.
    He had a new lover who liked him.
    I trusted she was the good one, this time, because even his older daughter was not jealous of her, she liked her a lot.
    What does he mean he built nothing?”

    He said he did not know, he felt like death was peeping on him or something.
    He felt like his life was over and anything ahead was meaningless, just a question of time.

    I told him to check his hormone balance and also to speak about his divorce to a psychiatrist.
    And probably about his first wife also, no matter how old is that story.
    He needs to acknowledge his feelings
    he said “Nahhhh”
    ………

    That was a year before his first symptoms. In June 2009.
    In July 2009, his girl friend sent him a text after a week end spent at his house.
    She said he took over more work to make more money and she does not want to spend her life awaiting for him to give her some time.
    She said it is over.

    His reaction was not to cry, he never cried with me, I hugged him and all, but it was always like if the hugg was for me.
    His sole reaction was to take even more work and far away, on top of it
    So since August 2009, he had to ride a train for hours before he could get to work, back and forth.
    He was anesthesiating himself with fatigue of so much back and forth and work hours.
    He was literally killing himself to not feel the pain.

    In July 2010, the doc said it takes a year for cancer to show any symptoms.
    And he asked Joël if he had had any heart break. Any stressful circumstances.
    Joël said
    “hmmm let me see, no, I don’t think so, all is fine in my life”
    …………….

    Since July I hold his hand on the phone every night.
    We speak feelings, plenty.
    We breath together until the pain and fear go and he can fall asleep on my voice.
    Last night he did not ask my help to go to sleep.
    He accepted morphine for the first time and he went to sleep on his own.

    I want to throw up.
    I feel scared to death.
    I feel distrustful of my own words, this can’t be happening.
    I did not even get used to the fact he was being ill yet.
    How could he be dead, then?

    ha……..
    I want to throw up because I am afraid it might be true
    I told him he was not dying tonight.
    I told him I was sure of it.
    I lied to him
    He believed me.
    He has always believed anything from me
    But this one time, it was a lie.
    I have been energetically lying since July.
    I feel wrong
    No, I did well, he did not want to see himself dying, he was going to the hospital to get help, nothing more.
    He got it. The pain stopped.

    I think I am almost crying now.
    I can feel one tear on the side of the right eye, it is forming

    omg water is flooding my face, I can’t see.

    You are an as*hole my dear Joël, you always will be.
    How dare you make me cry.

    You have been a good friend, thank you my dear.
    I feel afraid and abandoned, but such is life.
    It leads to death, no matter what we are or do.
    Each our turn.
    I have no choice but to cope with your death.
    I will
    Right now I am unable to cope, but I will, you’ll see.

    Sleep well Joël, that marvelous family you did build is in charge from now on.
    The souvenirs you did leave in all of us will keep us warm.

    God is probably telling you all that now, you did honor Him with your life of tenacity.
    You gave the universe 3 human beings and you filled them with love and hope and strength for themselves.
    They also gave the universe 3 human beings and they are doing just what you did.
    You life was worthy, my love.

    I doubt you grand children will even know what car you drove, but we’ll keep thriving on the love you put inside us.

    For ever.

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



  6.  #6LonePlum on November 28, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    Years before, in 2007, when he realized his second brand new wife did not love him, he phoned me.
    I hold his hand on the phone every night during a few weeks.
    We shared a few weekends after she left.
    I was talkative and happy because he needed me to be just that. It was him who was not inside his body that time.
    He suffered, he loved her.

    The official divorce paper arrived in June 2009, a month after he saved me from my panic attack.
    I was at his house when he got the mail.
    I could feel it was like the last blow he could ever take in his life.

    A month later, he was at his daughter’s party with his girl friend. He said to me later
    “Everybody was happy, and suddenly my life hit me in the face.
    I don’t have anybody to share happy old souvenirs with, I don’t have a nucleus, I am on my own, I did not built anything.
    I stepped outside to watch the kiddies playing in the garden and there, I felt something teared inside, I can’t explain.
    Tears rolled down my cheeks although I was not aware of being crying.
    I could not stay up, I had to sit.
    I could not drive either, my girl friend drove me home.
    I lock the front door with the key now, I had never in my life locked a door before.”

    I told him it was the divorce being so real now in black and white letters, he is reacting at last.
    I told him he did build a family, his children are happy and healthy and building their own lives;
    I told him he was being self centered, which stops him from relativising life.
    I told him if he could look around him, he would see most men do not have their first partner with them.
    They don’t have anybody to share older souvenirs either.
    I don’t have anybody to share my older souvenirs either.
    I don’t have anybody to share a dream with either.
    Such is life.
    I told him he had a steady job with the government, that the law makes impossible he can be fired
    He had incomes insured until the day he dies [ 🙁 ]
    He had the best health insurance on the planet [ 🙁 ]
    He had a beautiful house all paid for
    He had the car he dreamt of
    He was building an apartment by the sea side to enjoy the summer
    He can enjoy life at last, all is there for him now.
    He did built a family, who is busy being happy
    His life has been useful to his children whom he finished raising on his own, after the first wife left.
    He had a new lover who liked him.
    I trusted she was the good one, this time, because even his older daughter was not jealous of her, she liked her a lot.
    What does he mean he built nothing?”

    He said he did not know, he felt like death was peeping on him or something.
    He felt like his life was over and anything ahead was meaningless, just a question of time.

    I told him to check his hormone balance and also to speak about his divorce to a psychiatrist.
    And probably about his first wife also, no matter how old is that story.
    He needs to acknowledge his feelings
    he said “Nahhhh”
    ………

    That was a year before his first symptoms. In June 2009.
    In July 2009, his girl friend sent him a text after a week end spent at his house.
    She said he took over more work to make more money and she does not want to spend her life awaiting for him to give her some time.
    She said it is over.

    His reaction was not to cry, he never cried with me, I hugged him and all, but it was always like if the hugg was for me.
    His sole reaction was to take even more work and far away, on top of it
    So since August 2009, he had to ride a train for hours before he could get to work, back and forth.
    He was anesthesiating himself with fatigue of so much back and forth and work hours.
    He was literally killing himself to not feel the pain.

    In July 2010, the doc said it takes a year for cancer to show any symptoms.
    And he asked Joël if he had had any heart break. Any stressful circumstances.
    Joël said
    “hmmm let me see, no, I don’t think so, all is fine in my life”
    …………….

    Since July I hold his hand on the phone every night.
    We speak feelings, plenty.
    We breath together until the pain and fear go and he can fall asleep on my voice.
    Last night he did not ask my help to go to sleep.
    He accepted morphine for the first time and he went to sleep on his own.

    I want to throw up.
    I feel scared to death.
    I feel distrustful of my own words, this can’t be happening.
    I did not even get used to the fact he was being ill yet.
    How could he be dead, then?

    ha……..
    I want to throw up because I am afraid it might be true
    I told him he was not dying tonight.
    I told him I was sure of it.
    I lied to him
    He believed me.
    He has always believed anything from me
    But this one time, it was a lie.
    I have been energetically lying since July.
    I feel wrong
    No, I did well, he did not want to see himself dying, he was going to the hospital to get help, nothing more.
    He got it. The pain stopped.

    I think I am almost crying now.
    I can feel one tear on the side of the right eye, it is forming

    omg water is flooding my face, I can’t see.

    You are an as*hole my dear Joël, you always will be.
    How dare you make me cry.

    You have been a good friend, thank you my dear.
    I feel afraid and abandoned, but such is life.
    It leads to death, no matter what we are or do.
    Each our turn.
    I have no choice but to cope with your death.
    I will
    Right now I am unable to cope, but I will, you’ll see.

    Sleep well Joël, that marvelous family you did build is in charge from now on.
    The souvenirs you did leave in all of us will keep us warm.

    God is probably telling you all that now, you did honor Him with your life of tenacity.
    You gave the universe 3 human beings and you filled them with love and hope and strength for themselves.
    They also gave the universe 3 human beings and they are doing just what you did.
    You life was worthy, my love.

    I doubt you grand children will even know what car you drove, but we’ll keep thriving on the love you put inside us.

    For ever.

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



  7.  #7LonePlum on November 28, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    *Part 1*

    The post above is *part 2*
    Sorry, dear xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    The blog did not accept my first post so I repost
    *part 1* here.

    Joël died.
    He was 54.

    He was diagnosed with a spot in the lungs in July 2010.
    He started chemotherapy the same week he was diagnosed.

    He was doing better, then he ached all over, he could not move, so he went to the hospital.
    Yesterday, they gave him morphine and he felt relieved.
    He fell peacefully asleep.
    He died while sleeping.
    He has what he wanted.
    He did not want to die, he did not want to see himself dying.
    He does not know he is dead, he thinks he is asleep.

    I don’t know what I feel.
    I might throw up, I don’t know.
    I can’t have the world without Joël on it, I feel orphan, I feel afraid.

    I feel happy he went on a trip to Madagascar in June 2010.
    He had not given himself the permission to just let it go, spend money on a dream and just do it.

    He thought the dream of a sport car was necessary to be worthy, the dream of such a nice house was necessary to be worthy.
    But a trip was money spend on just that: a dream with no external signs proving he was worthy.

    He did it in June 2010, just on time. He felt the first symptoms in July 2010.
    He came back from his trip so surprised by the reality of other people’s lives, the relativity of happiness, the relativity of the worthiness of a life.

    He came back different, and ready to enjoy life.
    WTF
    I feel frustrated, he worked so hard to pay a flashy sport car and house, to feel worthy.
    He is dead.
    He did not reach the age of retirement, he did not have time to enjoy life.

    He reproduced himself, though, within 3 beautiful adults who themselves gave 3 beautiful human beings.
    He enjoyed them until the last minute and he gave them the example of a life of tenacity.

    I am not worthy of his strength, I feel weak.
    I feel afraid because he is dead.
    I wish I could cry and get rid of the sensibility in my guts, under my belly, like if fear was in there, and the need to throw up.

    I never cry when people die, I never know what I feel.
    But I don’t feel fear.
    Why am I afraid, like orphan, lost in the universe?

    He was a friend.
    We had long decided he was not good to me as a lover and he was not at all within my Cdating pool.
    He really was my friend. I met him in 1998.

    In May 2009, I realized my ex imaginary lover was going to vanish any day. I felt panicked.
    I phoned Joël.
    I said
    “I can’t say why or what, but I can’t make it on my own.
    I feel I am being sucked into an abysmal whirl into hell.
    I don’t even know why.”

    he said
    “Put your cloths on; I am coming to pick you up”
    He drove the hour that separates us, and he showed at my door.
    I hopped in his car and off we went to his house.

    He cooked a barbecue for me, he bought the best Tbone steaks, because I love it, he opened a bottle of champagne.

    I forced myself laughing, I felt panic was eating my guts.
    But it worked, after a while I was sincerely laughing with him.

    At some stage during the evening, I remembered my lover, I felt the hurt and panic crawling back, so I said
    “I need to come across to you and hugg you strongly, I really need love now, may I?”
    He opened his arms and I went to hide in them
    I sat on his lap and I hugged him like I suppose I would have hugged my Father when I was a child, if he had been the hugging type.

    He was trembling, I realized his desire for me had never vanished after all the years
    I said
    “I feel like a baby in your arms, I need so much to be treated like a baby just now”
    he kissed my cheeks and said
    “yes you are a big baby, you have always been, just rest you head on my shoulder”
    It was good and salvation for me

    We slept in his bed.
    He hugged me all night and I could sleep. I woke up rested.

    We walked around his town, there was a fair that week end
    He knew I was coming back from a trip with a man.
    But I did not want to speak of D with him at all or with anybody.
    He said
    “You have been so silent. I did not know you could breath without speaking.”

    I tried to make a joke:
    “You are my friend, not a lover, so I can be tolerant of what you are.
    Nothing you do can interfere in my style of life; so the control freak can sleep inside me.
    I don’t need to tell you off and to show you what you should do to fit my own life. I don’t feel the need to comment anything you do unless you ask me to.”

    He said
    “ hmmm yes, whatever you mean with all that.
    Yet I know you, you always jump all over the place, you laugh at anything.
    You are not in your body right now.
    Seems like you met a man you really like this time, and you are not finding the experience enjoyable “

    Oh yes I really liked D and oh no I was not enjoying myself infatuated with D.

    I hold Joël’s hand in silence, he let it go and put his arm around my shoulder and we walked an hour like that.



  8.  #8Plum on November 28, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    *Part 1*

    The post above is *part 2*
    Sorry, dear xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    The blog did not accept my first post so I repost
    *part 1* here.

    Joël died.
    He was 54.

    He was diagnosed with a spot in the lungs in July 2010.
    He started chemotherapy the same week he was diagnosed.

    He was doing better, then he ached all over, he could not move, so he went to the hospital.
    Yesterday, they gave him morphine and he felt relieved.
    He fell peacefully asleep.
    He died while sleeping.
    He has what he wanted.
    He did not want to die, he did not want to see himself dying.
    He does not know he is dead, he thinks he is asleep.

    I don’t know what I feel.
    I might throw up, I don’t know.
    I can’t have the world without Joël on it, I feel orphan, I feel afraid.

    I feel happy he went on a trip to Madagascar in June 2010.
    He had not given himself the permission to just let it go, spend money on a dream and just do it.

    He thought the dream of a sport car was necessary to be worthy, the dream of such a nice house was necessary to be worthy.
    But a trip was money spend on just that: a dream with no external signs proving he was worthy.

    He did it in June 2010, just on time. He felt the first symptoms in July 2010.
    He came back from his trip so surprised by the reality of other people’s lives, the relativity of happiness, the relativity of the worthiness of a life.

    He came back different, and ready to enjoy life.
    WTF
    I feel frustrated, he worked so hard to pay a flashy sport car and house, to feel worthy.
    He is dead.
    He did not reach the age of retirement, he did not have time to enjoy life.

    He reproduced himself, though, within 3 beautiful adults who themselves gave 3 beautiful human beings.
    He enjoyed them until the last minute and he gave them the example of a life of tenacity.

    I am not worthy of his strength, I feel weak.
    I feel afraid because he is dead.
    I wish I could cry and get rid of the sensibility in my guts, under my belly, like if fear was in there, and the need to throw up.

    I never cry when people die, I never know what I feel.
    But I don’t feel fear.
    Why am I afraid, like orphan, lost in the universe?

    He was a friend.
    We had long decided he was not good to me as a lover and he was not at all within my Cdating pool.
    He really was my friend. I met him in 1998.

    In May 2009, I realized my ex imaginary lover was going to vanish any day. I felt panicked.
    I phoned Joël.
    I said
    “I can’t say why or what, but I can’t make it on my own.
    I feel I am being sucked into an abysmal whirl into hell.
    I don’t even know why.”

    he said
    “Put your cloths on; I am coming to pick you up”
    He drove the hour that separates us, and he showed at my door.
    I hopped in his car and off we went to his house.

    He cooked a barbecue for me, he bought the best Tbone steaks, because I love it, he opened a bottle of champagne.

    I forced myself laughing, I felt panic was eating my guts.
    But it worked, after a while I was sincerely laughing with him.

    At some stage during the evening, I remembered my lover, I felt the hurt and panic crawling back, so I said
    “I need to come across to you and hugg you strongly, I really need love now, may I?”
    He opened his arms and I went to hide in them
    I sat on his lap and I hugged him like I suppose I would have hugged my Father when I was a child, if he had been the hugging type.

    He was trembling, I realized his desire for me had never vanished after all the years
    I said
    “I feel like a baby in your arms, I need so much to be treated like a baby just now”
    he kissed my cheeks and said
    “yes you are a big baby, you have always been, just rest you head on my shoulder”
    It was good and salvation for me

    We slept in his bed.
    He hugged me all night and I could sleep. I woke up rested.

    We walked around his town, there was a fair that week end
    He knew I was coming back from a trip with a man.
    But I did not want to speak of D with him at all or with anybody.
    He said
    “You have been so silent. I did not know you could breath without speaking.”

    I tried to make a joke:
    “You are my friend, not a lover, so I can be tolerant of what you are.
    Nothing you do can interfere in my style of life; so the control freak can sleep inside me.
    I don’t need to tell you off and to show you what you should do to fit my own life. I don’t feel the need to comment anything you do unless you ask me to.”

    He said
    “ hmmm yes, whatever you mean with all that.
    Yet I know you, you always jump all over the place, you laugh at anything.
    You are not in your body right now.
    Seems like you met a man you really like this time, and you are not finding the experience enjoyable “

    Oh yes I really liked D and oh no I was not enjoying myself infatuated with D.

    I hold Joël’s hand in silence, he let it go and put his arm around my shoulder and we walked an hour like that.



  9.  #9LonePlum on November 28, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Where is part one of my post?
    I keep posting and it vanishes.



  10.  #10LonePlum on November 28, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    **********Part 1**********

    The post above is *part 2*
    Sorry, dear xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    The blog did not accept my first post so I repost
    *part 1* here.

    Joël died.
    He was 54.

    He was diagnosed with a spot in the lungs in July 2010.
    He started chemotherapy the same week he was diagnosed.

    He was doing better, then he ached all over, he could not move, so he went to the hospital.
    Yesterday, they gave him morphine and he felt relieved.
    He fell peacefully asleep.
    He died while sleeping.
    He has what he wanted.
    He did not want to die, he did not want to see himself dying.
    He does not know he is dead, he thinks he is asleep.

    I don’t know what I feel.
    I might throw up, I don’t know.
    I can’t have the world without Joël on it, I feel orphan, I feel afraid.

    I feel happy he went on a trip to Madagascar in June 2010.
    He had not given himself the permission to just let it go, spend money on a dream and just do it.

    He thought the dream of a sport car was necessary to be worthy, the dream of such a nice house was necessary to be worthy.
    But a trip was money spend on just that: a dream with no external signs proving he was worthy.

    He did it in June 2010, just on time. He felt the first symptoms in July 2010.
    He came back from his trip so surprised by the reality of other people’s lives, the relativity of happiness, the relativity of the worthiness of a life.

    He came back different, and ready to enjoy life.
    WTF
    I feel frustrated, he worked so hard to pay a flashy sport car and house, to feel worthy.
    He is dead.
    He did not reach the age of retirement, he did not have time to enjoy life.

    He reproduced himself, though, within 3 beautiful adults who themselves gave 3 beautiful human beings.
    He enjoyed them until the last minute and he gave them the example of a life of tenacity.

    I am not worthy of his strength, I feel weak.
    I feel afraid because he is dead.
    I wish I could cry and get rid of the sensibility in my guts, under my belly, like if fear was in there, and the need to throw up.

    I never cry when people die, I never know what I feel.
    But I don’t feel fear.
    Why am I afraid, like orphan, lost in the universe?

    He was a friend.
    We had long decided he was not good to me as a lover and he was not at all within my Cdating pool.
    He really was my friend. I met him in 1998.

    In May 2009, I realized my ex imaginary lover was going to vanish any day. I felt panicked.
    I phoned Joël.
    I said
    “I can’t say why or what, but I can’t make it on my own.
    I feel I am being sucked into an abysmal whirl into hell.
    I don’t even know why.”

    he said
    “Put your cloths on; I am coming to pick you up”
    He drove the hour that separates us, and he showed at my door.
    I hopped in his car and off we went to his house.

    He cooked a barbecue for me, he bought the best Tbone steaks, because I love it, he opened a bottle of champagne.

    I forced myself laughing, I felt panic was eating my guts.
    But it worked, after a while I was sincerely laughing with him.

    At some stage during the evening, I remembered my lover, I felt the hurt and panic crawling back, so I said
    “I need to come across to you and hugg you strongly, I really need love now, may I?”
    He opened his arms and I went to hide in them
    I sat on his lap and I hugged him like I suppose I would have hugged my Father when I was a child, if he had been the hugging type.

    He was trembling, I realized his desire for me had never vanished after all the years
    I said
    “I feel like a baby in your arms, I need so much to be treated like a baby just now”
    he kissed my cheeks and said
    “yes you are a big baby, you have always been, just rest you head on my shoulder”
    It was good and salvation for me

    We slept in his bed.
    He hugged me all night and I could sleep. I woke up rested.

    We walked around his town, there was a fair that week end
    He knew I was coming back from a trip with a man.
    But I did not want to speak of D with him at all or with anybody.
    He said
    “You have been so silent. I did not know you could breath without speaking.”

    I tried to make a joke:
    “You are my friend, not a lover, so I can be tolerant of what you are.
    Nothing you do can interfere in my style of life; so the control freak can sleep inside me.
    I don’t need to tell you off and to show you what you should do to fit my own life. I don’t feel the need to comment anything you do unless you ask me to.”

    He said
    “ hmmm yes, whatever you mean with all that.
    Yet I know you, you always jump all over the place, you laugh at anything.
    You are not in your body right now.
    Seems like you met a man you really like this time, and you are not finding the experience enjoyable “

    Oh yes I really liked D and oh no I was not enjoying myself infatuated with D.

    I hold Joël’s hand in silence, he let it go and put his arm around my shoulder and we walked an hour like that.



  11.  #11Daria on November 28, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Oh Loneplum I’m so sorry for u baby. Here I am cryin with u.



  12.  #12Simply Shannon on November 28, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    Plum. I am so sorry. Wow. Did this happen today?



  13.  #13Dorothea on November 28, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    🙁 we are all here for you LP. Especially if you need to talk here.



  14.  #14LonePlum on November 28, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    Thank you Daria, Simply Shanon and Dorothea.

    SS :
    He died last night during his sleep.



  15.  #15tinque on November 28, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    LonePlum – I have no words, only tears. May they wash your pain, ease it.
    xxoo



  16.  #16Senior Lady Vibe on November 28, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    @LonePlum

    “…He died last night during his sleep…”

    I feel your loss, Plum. My condolences to you. It seems to me you both brought much pleasure and comfort to each other. Those are good things to have in life.

    SLV



  17.  #17Jennifer on November 28, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    Oh, LonePlum…
    I can’t even imagine your pain. I send you love and light.
    Love and light.



  18.  #18Jennifer on November 28, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    What to do when feeling messages don’t seem to get you where you wanna go?
    I called my bro. Who HATES the holidays. HATES.
    I said I was feeling nervous.
    Bro: why?
    Me: Cause I am worried that you are going to be angry at the tree trimming and every one would be sad.
    Bro: why are you talking that way? Is this some sort of attempt to manipulate me into behaving in a certain way at a social even I have no desire to attend?
    Me: No, it’s just how I feel?
    Bro: and why would you choose to communicate this way with me?
    Me: Cause I wanna tell you how I feel.
    Bro: Why would you not communicate with me in a way that I choose to communicate rather than trying to get me to communicate your way?
    Me: Cause it feels better to tell you how I feel than tell you not to be a douche bag.
    Bro: I prefer you tell me not to be a douche bag.
    Me: Ok, don’t be a douch bag.

    NOW REALLY?!?!?!!?
    WHISKEY
    TANGO
    FOXTROT

    RORI!
    Little help here….



  19.  #19Simply Shannon on November 28, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    Jennifer, I believe you followed Rori’s rules. You told him how you feel. Then he told you what to do and you followed his request. Didn’t make him wrong. Let him lead. Hopefully he’ll follow through because know he knows that what he does impacts others. Be surprised.



  20.  #20Dorothea on November 28, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    yeah you did great and then you let him lead. great job!



  21.  #21Jennifer on November 28, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    I felt very tense.



  22.  #22Daria on November 28, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    Jennifer – I think it was “off” because you CALLED him and told him your feelings

    thata threw it off somewhat

    he seemed to see it as pressure…

    also, he has every right to “be” angry… it’s the behaving a certain way that doesn’t feel good…

    i would feel mad if someone told me that too?

    like huh?

    ummmm YEAH IM GOnNA BE ANGRY IF I FU(CKIN WANT TO BE

    i don’t want to be told that someone is scared that im gonna FEEL a certain way…

    (but it happens)



  23.  #23Jennifer on November 28, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    yeah, maybe that’s it.



  24.  #24Daria on November 28, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    redo… he calls…

    him: hello daria blah blah, u see that game?

    me: yeah

    hey… mmm.. i feel uncomfortable to bring this up… i feel scared… but i really want to be open with you…

    i feel worried about the tree trimming… i feel bad when there’s tension and arguments and i dont’ want to feel that way… and i don’t want to blame you… i don’t want to feel bad at the tree trimming thing tho… i feel kinda sad…

    what do you think?

    (ps – it still might generate an attack at first)

    BUT i do think you did well staying laid back

    AND i think he Heard you.



  25.  #25Daria on November 28, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    take out the “tho”



  26.  #26Daria on November 28, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    this feels scary to even imagine hehe!

    hey… im feeling uncomfortable to bring this up… but i really want to be open with you…

    i feel scared of feeling upset at the tree trimming thing … i felt bad last year… and i dont want to feel that way… and i dont want to blame you… you have every right to feel the way you feel about it… even to act any way you want… but i dont’t like the tension and arguments… it feels bad… i just am feeling scared and frustrated that it will feel bad…

    what do you think?



  27.  #27Daria on November 28, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    take out the “even” and replace with “and”



  28.  #28Daria on November 28, 2010 at 5:55 pm

    actually, as your brother, i can see even calling him up and saying i feel nervous might be cool…

    but the im worried YOU!!!! might BE ANGRY and everyone will be sad!

    oh no! i feel ANGRY HEARING THAT!!!

    whaaaa?/?

    i feel blamed and told like my feelings are not good enough and i should squash them for OTHER PEOPOLES feelings >>>>

    whaaaa?

    EFF THAT!!!!

    EFF YOU FOR THINKGING IM NOT IMPORTANT

    wow

    i would feel VERY PIST



  29.  #29Jennifer on November 28, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    hmmm…..
    that could be where it went off the rails
    but how to reframe?



  30.  #30Daria on November 28, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    Jennifer – reframe? what do you mean?…

    i would be careful next time not to use YOU

    and keep the attitude that every being has a right to FEEL, and also to say and act anyway they want to…

    but we don’t have to LIKE it…. thats where OUR POWER comes in, expressing that we don’t want to tolerate it or don’t like it



  31.  #31Jennifer on November 28, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    oh, wait.
    daria did that.
    d’oh!



  32.  #32Daria on November 28, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    the sky is blue in the cloudless day

    the sun is golden

    the trees have brown barck

    i am a beautiful goddess

    ~~~

    =D

    trying out hypnosis techniques on myself haha



  33.  #33Dorothea on November 28, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    Daria, 23
    feels like a LOT of explaining. super tiring.

    ack i hate explaining, it feels like bargaining and not connecting or understanding, i feel suuuuperdeeduper triggered.



  34.  #34Daria on November 28, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    yeah take out “just” also



  35.  #35Daria on November 28, 2010 at 6:30 pm

    Dorothea – hmm… interesting… yes shorter might feel better then…

    i LIKE 23 a lot,

    i do get long and circular expressing myself sometimes, and that might not be as well received as soemthing short and simple



  36.  #36Daria on November 28, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    hey… im feeling uncomfortable to bring this up… but i really want to be open with you…

    i feel scared of feeling tense and upset at the tree trimming thing … i felt bad last year… and i dont want to feel that way… and i dont want to blame you… what do you think?



  37.  #37Daria on November 28, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    i feel scared im gonna feel uncomfortable and upset at the tree trimming thing like last year… and i dont want to feel that way… what do you think



  38.  #38Simply Shannon on November 28, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    Reframing Jennifer’s thingy now that I see others stuff. Yes I’m jumping on the band wagon…

    Hey bro. I feel worried that the tree trimming thing is going to feel tense this year. It seems to feel tenst every year. What do you think?

    Him: Yeah, I hate going. I hate the effin’ holidays.

    Me: Oh that feels bad to hear. I love the holidays. I feel curious why you come if you hate them so much. (Note: last statement must be said with smile on face and genuine curiosity, genuine seeking to understand).

    Or maybe “I wonder if there is anything we could do to make the tree trimming more fun.”

    Or “I don’t want to feel tense. Is there anything we can do?”



  39.  #39Simply Shannon on November 28, 2010 at 7:32 pm

    Text from Mr. Manly Man today.

    “I just wanted to say hey and hope you had a great Thanksgiving.”

    Blah. I feel angry. What the eff are you texting me for? I feel annoyed. And somewhat sad. I don’t want just text messages. Seriously!! Ugh.

    To respond or not? Any takers? Buehler, Buehler?

    Can I have this 10 minutes of my life back please?



  40.  #40Simply Shannon on November 28, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    Haha! Yeah – I feel trigger happy. Stopping myself. I’m reading old context into this new story. Hmm… okay start fresh. NVs go sit in the corner.



  41.  #41Simply Shannon on November 28, 2010 at 7:36 pm

    I feel angry getting texts from you when I want more than that. Boo. I feel sad.

    Sent. What the heck. Practice.



  42.  #42Simply Shannon on November 28, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    Him: Oh sorry. I won’t do that any more. I told you I can’t date you and you date others. But sorry. I won’t bother you any more.

    Not gonna touch it. Crickets…



  43.  #43life_is_too_short_to... on November 28, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    ((((((((((((((((((((((LonePlum))))))))))))))))))))))

    love light blessings



  44.  #44Meemee on November 28, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    Lovely Ones,
    I am in Chennai now.
    New girl in a new city 🙂 🙂
    I reached this morning and enjoyed my trip and I felt so great while I was watching the city sitting in a cab on my way to the guest house.
    Now I am getting ready to go for work.
    I feel good.
    I feel new.
    I feel good that there are no reminders in this city. Its new. Its new.
    Hope things are going great with all of you.
    Love you all
    Meemee



  45.  #45Darling Ella on November 28, 2010 at 8:11 pm

    Hi Rori,

    Hope u had a great holiday!!! Mine was eventful indeed 🙂

    Well, I have to share this with you 🙂 I have used your tools (or better said I ‘ve become accustomed to your tools for about a month now…) and as you can see in the txt messages I got from my “man” it’s shows…:)

    Anyway, about a month ago I stopped completely calling him and fully stepped back and stopped over functioning to accommodate his “busy” schedule…I found myself something else to do besides being interested in what he was doing (e.g., reading Rori’s blog instead LOL)…I even told him that since he is not ready to discuss marriage (we’ve been dating on and off for 1 and half years)…I will make myself available for dates…

    Since this discussion he had increased calling me, texting, and wanting to see me…yet, no long term commitment discussion yet…When I am not available, he becomes suspicious and accusatory…yet, unlike the past, I no longer get defensive, but try my best to use feeling messages telling him how I feel etc…

    So, this week I decided to go out on dates and make the best of my life and stop thinking of what he might do…But gosh, he smelled I was up to something…and I think it was my vibe…he usually likes to call and never make plans ahead unless I would initiate and request to plan…

    Well, the past month, I no longer initiated anything…and when he would initiate I would already have something else to do…and postpone it for when I was available…Bare with me…it’s coming…

    So, Friday morning I got an early call from my “j” saying he was disappointed I did not accept him to come over to have dinner with me the day before (well, not really, I did not accept his terms)…During the same conversation, he asked me if he could come over…I told him, well, I am busy today…but u can try later and kept it short…In the afternoon, he calls again saying he is in my area and wants to come over…well, I told him sorry but I decided to go to Seattle to visit with relatives since we did not make any serious plans…He was upset …I cut him short again…

    So, on Friday morning, I got me a 1st date for lunch, and I decided to go out of town and have a date with a guy had been pursuing me for six months now…While I was having dinner on Friday evening with my out of town date…my “J” calls me repeatedly like eight times…3 voice mails, several txt messages…Among the txt messages here are some interesting ones :
    “I have never known Seattle to be off the map of the communication world??? Wonder why???? Can u establish contact please????????”…a few minutes later… “I have heard them all in the past month! Make sure u button your story down very well this time…Just about heard them all by now…” Well, about one hour later, I call him back…with “tears” telling him I was driving and I could not respond because it was heavy rain and I was “very “ scared…Gosh, I felt sooo bad for lying…:(

    I told him I will call him after I visit with my “cousin”…(he was suspicious about my whispering…it was a ridiculous situation indeed…LOL…) A few hours later, I txt him saying “Wow, I am reading again your txts…I feel very sad about all…good nite…” He responded immediately “Nite…make sure u answer u phone next time…” Part of me was happy and smiling…the other part I felt bad for having to play…:(

    Anyway, I feel like I told him over and over again that he has no right asking me about my whereabouts when he is not ready to discuss a future plan about us…Yet, lately, I feel like he is really trying…but part of him is really stubborn…

    So, my question right now is should I continue to go out on dates since I am afraid of him finding out…(I avoided answering his questions about me seeing someone else, yet I told him I keep myself open to go out on dates until he makes his mind about us a month ago)? What would you do?

    Thank you 🙂



  46.  #46Laughing Goddess on November 28, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    Ooooo Lone Plum. I’m so sorry for your loss.



  47.  #47Daria on November 28, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    “Listen to yourself, specifically to your body. What does your body say about conception? That sex, the union of opposites, that being that close , that intimate, being one with someone you are deeply attracted to is one of life’s greatest joys. That is the truth. Sex does not feel sinful or bad or dirty…it is only so when we make it so. In and of itself sex is a great pleasure, a reliever of stress, a healing act. Sex is good for you, it is excellent exercise, powerful aromatherapy, it also creates strong connections between lovers as well as validates your feelings of self worth and thereby assists with increasing your self esteem. Sex is good. Any and all sex between individuals who desire it is holy or as I choose to say instead, Wholy as in part of the Divine Whole. This is the simple truth. When we are honest with ourselves and listen to our bodies we know these things to be true. With the advent of the patriarchy, it became necessary to categorize sex. To determine which kind of sex was okay and which kind was not, but prior to that, this was not the case. Humans are extremely social, and sexual creatures. We love touching and being touched. Touching is so much a part of our nature that it is possible to develop illnesses from lack of it. And conversely, healing can take place with touch alone. Some are familiar with laying on of hands and all will recall how the comforting touch of a mother or grandmotherwas able to make us feel better instantly.”

    yeye at ask yeye blog



  48.  #48Rosa on November 28, 2010 at 8:48 pm

    Yes absolutely yes you should go out on more dates.
    LOTS more dates .

    You told him you were accepting dates right?
    You told him you need to have advance plans ahead of time right?
    So why the whispering and lying? Honesty is the KEY to success with this.

    Try something like this maybe.

    ” I felt surprised when you called 8 times and I was busy. It feels restrictive and intrusive when we dont have a serious commitment. I feel uncomfortable and harrassed by so many calls. I havent been entirely truthful but it feels better now to tell you i was indeed on a date .I feel so sorry for not telling you when you asked me directly. i felt fearful of how you may react.

    I feel awkward about our lack of connection lately and It feels great to take the pressure off you and off me too by accepting other dates.

    We have been dating for many months and had a great time together yet i dont want to be a “girlfriend” . I want to keep my dating options open until I meet the man who is ready to give me the relationship I want for the long term (or the ring on my finger etc..)

    (Next you may need to discuss sexual exclusivity up front if you havent already).
    ” I feel we have a a great sexual connection and I am not seeking to sleep with other men at this point. If I feel concerned to discuss that further with you I undertake to do so . It would feel better to know what you think about this ”
    OR
    do not mention sex if no such arrangement has been discussed and ASSUME you are a rock star , right?
    Unless he is offering you a sincere commitment , he does NOT have any rights to the goods, exclusive or not.. and Rori says a “good man knows he has no right to assume”

    You know all this , I know . I am just reminding you 🙂
    YOU ROCK



  49.  #49AmberS on November 28, 2010 at 8:48 pm

    Lone Plum,

    I am sorry for your loss.

    Please Universe, please surround her with your love and comfort. Please support her and give her your peace.



  50.  #50Daria on November 28, 2010 at 8:48 pm

    “High Risk Pregnancies

    Peace sister,

    My indigenous name is Aziza. I have been asking all over the place on myspace if anyone knew anything about natural childbirth, water birth, having your child at home vs. a hospital. I am 22 years old staying in Michigan with my parents for the time being while my King finishes our sanctuary in each of our rooms in our house back in Nashville, NC. I am having twins, this is my first pregnancy and I want this to be so sacred and spiritual as I can have BUT because I had to get checked up for the gender the doctors told me I am “high risk” Mainly because I am having twins and I am a petite person. I have had a lot of people come at me telling me all the negative things about pregnancy more so then the beautiful things. I have kept my body in the best condition, I eat all natural foods, foods that have melanin and nutrients. I don’t eat any fast foods. It would mean so much to me if I could have not just a midwife with me during this event but a spiritual midwife. I was told over and over again that no midwife would deliver twins. I honestly believe because I have the right state of mind, I eat well, take care of myself, and chant my mantras that everything will be wonderful. Is there anything you know about twins? Would you be so kind as so guide me into a direction or feed me the knowledge on child birth? I am open to anything! =) I appreciate anything that you have to offer sister.

    Be blessed!
    I too have been considered “high risk” since my first pregnancy…my blood pressure has a tendency to rise during pregnancy and during two of my five pregnancies I have also had protein in my urine resulting a diagnosis referred to as toxemia…someone telling you that you and your body’s natural ability to conceive and bear children is High Risk makes you feel out of control and as if you cannot trust your body to do what it was made to do…I have been there, I know how that feels and my advice to you is to pause, be still, listen to the voices of your children growing inside you and understand that you create the reality in which you live

    Consider carefully and deeply ALL possibilities, consider each and everything that can occur while giving birth and make peace with every possible method and every possible way that your children may come into the world…because the result that you want is healthy babies and as a mother you cannot always be attached to how you receive that result

    Once you have made peace with caeseran, and epidural and doctor assisted and midwife assisted and any other methods of birth that come to your mind, you will relieve yourself of the fear of that kind of birth happening to you…once the fear is released begin to meditate and visualize the birth that you want, what you need, who will be there, the sights, the sounds and the smells that would be the most helpful for you in the birthing arena…see them, smell them and hear them daily…hold them in your mind and speak of them with folx you know will uplift and support you

    And then…

    Remain open…the truth of the matter of birth is that each child will have the birthing experience she or he needs in order to fulfill his or her own unique destiny

    And you as Mama are fully equipped to handle any and all of these possibities…your body, your mind and your spirit are capable of birthing these babies…they chose you to be born to because you are the PERFECT vessel for their growth and birth and raising do NOT EVER allow any medical test or negative comment to make you forget that

    That being said…YOU ARE ON THE RIGHT PATH! Continue to eat right, recite your mantras and search for a midwife who delivers twins…I would suggest calling The Farm in Summertown TN where most lay midwives in the US are trained and asking them for referrals…I KNOW they deliver twins and have trained other midwives to do the same

    You can and WILL have the birth experience you desire and need and that your babies desire and need…YOU CAN DO IT SIS! DO NOT FEAR!



  51.  #51Kristine on November 28, 2010 at 8:53 pm

    Darling Ella….. Do not feel bad and most of all he has not gave you committment right? There is no man that should ever rxpect you to put your life on hold until HE IS READY!! This is about you and your happiness so you should circular date and if in meantime he thinks your the one let that be your decision!! Your amazing, as we all are in our own way and the only control you have over your life and happiness lies in your hands. Be honest do not lie and if he takes you for what you are and I mean all of it maybe one day he will see what he is losing 🙂 I have been through a situation somewhat like yours and the best thing I could do is respect and take care of me and my children. We are happy, what is meant to be is whomever he is…if he loves you and wants you for himself he needs to step up, never wait leaving yourself open for whenever he wants to make time for you. Like Rori has said many time put him on your horse and ride out, whatever is meant to be will be…much luck in life and love!!!



  52.  #52Darling Ella on November 28, 2010 at 9:01 pm

    Rosa:

    Thank you sooo much…Your suggestions are just what I needed…I read about your story too 🙂 My “J” has quite a bit of a Narcissist in him…we’ve come a long way with many ups and downs…:( The latest changes are mainly because I have changed…for the better I hope 🙂

    I feel very happy to hear about your recovery (my son is also a cancer survivor) and about enjoying your life to the fullest 🙂 Thank you again and I am looking forward to your awesome insights because I really need them 🙂

    Warm loving hugs 🙂



  53.  #53Darling Ella on November 28, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    Kristine:

    Oh, I loved your note 🙂 So sweet of you to encourage me 🙂 I feel tearful 🙂

    Big warm loving hug 🙂



  54.  #54Darling Ella on November 28, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    Kristine:

    And yes, there hasn’t been any commitment on the table…even exclusivity…it used to be a year ago…until I found some email to his exgf during a a fight/short break up we had…:(



  55.  #55Rosa on November 28, 2010 at 9:33 pm

    Ella,

    After thinking of yourself as trying to GET a man to step up for so long (18mths) , it requires a revolution of thinking just to see yourself REALLY as the rock star Goddess who may possibly ALLOW him some of your precious energy and time.

    Its such a simple flip over of vibe, but SOOOO powerful .

    I think I almost have it nailed with G-Man who wants to come look after me. I am not making it easy for him to see me online , he must call in person. He texted me from his home country last night asking me to go on msn, I said no , i was still in hospital and ran out of internet credit.

    Let him call, let him ask me permission to come visit. Let him treat me well . I feel annoyed when he expects me to messenger with him . I am not his “girlfriend” after all…tee hee..



  56.  #56Darling Ella on November 28, 2010 at 9:46 pm

    Rosa:

    Yes, indeed very powerful…The EFT also helped…allowing my emotions to come through the surface and feel deeply the painful rejection, unsure, unworthed feelings…it really helped…I allow myself to cry…alone and in front of him if I so feel…It is sooo empowering to be honest and trutful…

    Some of the struggles come from him fearing rejection…and me learning how to communicate with him my feelings and boundaries without triggering in him intense rejection and seeking other women when I would call it off and hurt his feelings (through projection of my own feelings… which I know is an immature behavior that he confessed …)

    I really love him…and I also have deep compassion for his childlike narcissistic behavior…:( Me stepping up understanding and dealing with his behavior…and using Rori’s simple tools…it already showing amazing results…I am still working on mastering the timing and appropriateness for using all this information…

    I remembered reading some of your story about you and G-man….and I often said to myself…yep, I relate to it…:) Very happy to see u experience the other side of the coin…

    Warm hugs,



  57.  #57Brenda on November 28, 2010 at 9:55 pm

    I love you all!

    Lone Plum, my prayers are with you! Hugs to you!

    Love,
    Brenda



  58.  #58mary on November 28, 2010 at 10:07 pm

    hello!

    Lone Plum:

    i feel sad that you lost your friend!

    Jeffrey:

    thank you so much for your formula!
    Timing + Authenticity – Blame = Effective Communication (T+A-B=EC)

    oh, how to have the best timing! and you did tell us how; to watch carefully for an opening… yes! thank you.

    Simply Shannon:

    oh! can’t you date just Manly Man? it’s been going on for a long time with you two! i vaguely remember something about tithing, but… can you see yourself with him? and only him? it sounds like he wants you so much! that sounds so amazing to me. is that not what you want? you want to date lots of other people? to find The One that is not Manly Man?

    please refresh my memory! just a bit! i’m so out of touch, but i’m also very interested… and trying to track along a bit… thank you!

    i’m still going strong with my man. i’m out of town at the moment and missing him, but wow. it seems pretty good to me! maybe he’s The One for me!

    hope so…



  59.  #59janjune on November 28, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    ((huggs))
    ((huggs))
    ((huggs)) plum

    your story of this friendship is sad plum… but beautiful, too



  60.  #60mary on November 28, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    oh, SS… i also read about your ex the other day, who’s getting married.

    since then i’ve thought about it, tried to imagine myself sitting there, hearing about it, having such a genuine conversation and feeling that square one feeling again.

    pretty intense.

    Timing + Authenticity – Blame

    it sounds like you some effective communication with your ex! what a groundwork for whatever is next for both of you! and how great for your boys that you had those moments together, even if they weren’t there to experience it.

    is that too positive a take on it?

    just wonderin’…

    it is definitely a closed door. so there is some guidance there, eh?



  61.  #61janjune on November 28, 2010 at 10:35 pm

    okay, i went on the date…
    i was surprisingly attracted to him.
    wow! he had long hair! down to the middle of his back!
    i liked it.
    i liked his eyes and face.
    and his smile.
    his body is chubbier than what i would ordinarily look at but it didn’t turn me off at all, it just wasn’t the main attraction.

    it was fun but awkward-ish-y.
    so i just leaned back.
    the conversation was not hard but was sometimes boring. lulled. i thought we might be making the date short a couple of times (that felt fine with me) then he’d pick the conversation back up
    we both had questions because we’re both into natural living etc and are both looking into different sustainable living practices so it was very interesting to trade info.

    but at some point i realized we just weren’t connecting… i couldn’t remember the Tools! haha!
    we were talking about jewelry making blahblah, and so i couldn’t see how to work in any feeling messages…
    then remembered level two listening, so began doing that… 🙂 🙂 🙂
    alright! that broke it down!!

    wow it felt so good!

    anyway, i have no idea if i’ll hear from him again or not.
    it was great practice with a really really nice man with a good sense of humor and i’m glad i waited to go out with someone who was like him!
    i really enjoyed it 🙂



  62.  #62Katnina on November 28, 2010 at 11:00 pm

    I am feeling confused and am hoping a rockstar siren or two can help me figure this out.
    Mr fireman (we dated for 3mos, I leaned way forward, he pulled back & broke up w me in mid October, then I found this place, yay!) texted me to wish me happy thanksgiving-1st contact in a month. I feeling messaged him back, there was more back & forth, he asked what’s going on, txtd him I was feeling weird about turning 30 next month& that I have a dance performance coming up soon which I’m excited about.
    He txtd back immediately asking if he could come to my performance, then called before. I could respond and said ‘yeah, I was weirded out about 30 also. can I come see you perform?’ I felt weird and didn’t know so i told him I didn’t know how many tix I was getting and that I already had some people who want to come (it’s basically a student recital but my piece is kind of abouut him), which is all true. Then I told him I would let him know.
    So my question is: i would like him to see me perform, so if I have an extra ticket (& as long as one of my CD’s isn’t coming), would it be too leaning forward to text him that I have one if he is interested in coming still-assuming I dont hear from him before then?
    The show is in 2 weeks and I should know by next week how many tix I get for friends.
    Thank you thank you!
    This is reallly bugging me for some reason. I think I miss him.
    I would appreciate any insight!



  63.  #63Rosa on November 28, 2010 at 11:10 pm

    More re G-man ,( emotionally unavailable , cant commit to me , cant stay away , currently trying to get back in some form of favour with me I think , not sure , but has girlfriend in long distance relationship).

    On Facebook I saw photos of him with her at her birthday party. She looks nice and happy.

    But oh wow, i could see him sweating , there as her “partner’ . In every photo of the two of them he was leaning back against the side rails of the boat they were on and SHE was leaning into him and pushing bits of her body forward to him , and he leaned back even more in the next shots and she leaned forward even more…He was certainly not doing the Happy Couple lean in . It all looked a bit yikky.

    And i could see the energy exchange right then and there in photos. This was fascinating. I immediately decided not to go on msn at any cost !!!

    I have him on the back of my horse and i feel fine and “neutral” mostly, but when he visited me in hospital I admit to a strong pull. He must have felt it too, hence these ongoing efforts to see more of me.

    Anyway Goddess Diva me is feeling quite excellent leaning back …



  64.  #64Rosa on November 28, 2010 at 11:21 pm

    Hi Katnina ,

    No I dont think its leaning forward if
    1. he asked to come
    2. You said you would let him know if there is a ticket.
    3. You would like him to see you

    I dont think he needs to ask you again once you have already said you would let him know.
    And it could be a text,

    “Hi , I feel excited about the show. There will be a spare ticket for you at the door”

    Or
    ” Hi , sorry there were no free tickets . I am feeling excited about the performance. “



  65.  #65Rosa on November 28, 2010 at 11:27 pm

    I have been thinking about Timing and how it has always been off for G man and I between moves and family needs, unemployment, illness, family death etc.

    It might be that a few relaxed days of good timing could allow genuine Authentic communication. I am practicing the feeling messages with my sons now and my illness has been a major opportunity to practice leaning back and receiving …Amen..

    I have been thinking about subtracting Blame.
    This is something I did in the past when my unexpressed anger and pain became unbearable .
    Blame erupted like Vesuvius!!!!

    UUUGH ..I deeply and profoundly forgive myself for these self blaming thoughts….



  66.  #66Lakshmi on November 28, 2010 at 11:54 pm

    Dorothea,

    I saw your post on the other thread about healing your skin with your diet. Can I ask what you did?

    Thanks!



  67.  #67Rori Raye on November 28, 2010 at 11:56 pm

    Plum…I’m not sure what’s a repeat…I’ll just let them all go through…and…thank you for your story…Love. Rori



  68.  #68Katnina on November 29, 2010 at 12:10 am

    Rosa, thank you!! I feel so inspired by you and I really appreciate your insight.
    So interesting to read about the body language in the photos of G-man. Do you notice him leaning into you physically when he is with you?
    And when do you get to see your dog again?
    Katnina



  69.  #69Rosa on November 29, 2010 at 12:47 am

    <Max is lying on my feet snoring , I got home today 🙂

    G- Man leaned in for the first few weeks , then he withdrew , then i followed into the gap and stayed there leaning forward . Whenever I was less available he wouyld come forward .

    This is the longest time (months) I have stayed leaned back and he keeps trying to meet up BUT , when I agreed at last in the hospital he was neutral , maybe a little forward here and there .He hugged me and lightly kissed me. He was kind of tentative and now I know more of Rori's tools I would say i need to practice being OPEN and soft when he moves towards me more.

    Those photos were a HUGE eye opener though, she had her hand stretched out to him as she leaned towards him , while he was not touching her, just leaning further back ..she looked like she was trying to do a "loving partner" shot and he wasnt playing the game. eeeeuw !!!! I am gonna be SO CAREFUL of body language with every CD now.

    Any sirens have any lean back stories.



  70.  #70Lorelei on November 29, 2010 at 1:49 am

    Lone Plum
    Catching up here – I feel so sad to read about your loss of Joël – I feel for you, and send you sympathy, and trust that the truth of your feelings will, as time goes on, help you to know how to go on as well. x



  71.  #71Katnina on November 29, 2010 at 1:54 am

    Yay! Welcome home! Max must be thrilled to have his person back!
    I like the picture idea-I may try use it as a new tool? Imagine if someone were to take a picture of me and whatever man I am with nd what does the photo show?
    I will be with you practicing being open and soft! Such a challenge for me.
    I want to remind myself often that their leaning forward feels much better than my leaning forward! And they don’t lean forward unless they have to-bc we are leaning back.
    Welcome home again!



  72.  #72Rosa on November 29, 2010 at 2:18 am

    I love that tool Katnina, the snapshot tool…

    “If a passing photographer were to snap you both now , how would the energy exchange LOOK from the outside? ”

    I love that we see all that and it is UNCONSCIOUS .. I took one look at the pics and realised I felt ok and even relieved about him coming to stay a few days . I realised he is not in love with her and is likely as uncomfortable with intimacy as ever …all that unconsciously from a photo.

    So I have decided to let him come .



  73.  #73Rosa on November 29, 2010 at 2:19 am

    Katnina so have you decided about that ticket yet?



  74.  #74lola on November 29, 2010 at 3:31 am

    Daria

    “Once you have made peace with caeseran, and epidural and doctor assisted and midwife assisted and any other methods of birth that come to your mind, you will relieve yourself of the fear of that kind of birth happening to you…once the fear is released begin to meditate and visualize the birth that you want, what you need, who will be there, the sights, the sounds and the smells that would be the most helpful for you in the birthing arena…”

    God I wish I’d heard that advice 16 years ago! I focused so hard on natural child birth and got forceps and caesarian- I guess it’s about not controlling outcomes again – it cuts through every aspect of my life.
    That’s my lesson for today – I’m going to go away and ponder about ‘not controlling outcomes’
    Thanks for that post Daria, that has been a major ‘aha’ for me.



  75.  #75Isis on November 29, 2010 at 3:34 am

    CDing…..

    I understand the concept of circular dating..
    I feel like it would take a lot of pressure off my partner, who is my boyfriend one day, my husband another, and done the next.

    but because I live with him,
    how do I date other people?

    Normally, all my dates would know is that I am NOT exclusive with them, that I date others. But since I live with someone it seems too obvious for them to not know that I am LIVING with someone I am seeing and assume, since we have the same bedroom, we have sex.

    I feel like I would have to explain, because A)I feel I would be dishonest if I didn’t explain this upfront. B)If they picked me up at my home, they would possibly see him/my room, or C)they would wonder why they couldn’t pick me up at my home.

    I feel afraid that men with real interest would not want to date me if they know I live with someone, particularly if they found out that we have sex.

    What do you do when you are sexually exclusive with a CD Don’t the other guys get cranky about NOT having sex? What do you tell them?

    Any thoughts on my “living with someone” situation?

    Thank you Sirens. <3.



  76.  #76Daria on November 29, 2010 at 3:46 am

    lola – yay i feel glad it helped you

    i seem to be taking an interest in childbirth and rearing today… hmmm



  77.  #77Daria on November 29, 2010 at 3:47 am

    As with the western zodiac the Chinese zodiac was used for divination.

    This ninth-century Tang Dynasty concept describes the universe in five wheels (center to outer ring):

    a) To the center is the symbol representing the opposing forces of yin/yang and the duality of nature. Common themes to this division are as follows:

    Yin – feminine, negative, yielding/soft, follower

    Yang – masculine, positive, resistant/hard, leader

    b) Mystical beasts representing the four quarters of the world:

    North – Tortoise

    South – Phoenix

    East – Dragon

    West – White Tiger

    c) Trigram symbols from the I Ching (the Book of Changes), defined as follows:

    ||| Heaven, ||¦ The Marsh/Mist, |¦| Fire/Sun, |¦¦ Thunder, ¦|| Wind/Wood, ¦|¦ The Deep/Water, ¦¦| Mountain, and ¦¦¦ Earth

    d) The twelve animals of the Chinese Zodiac are aligned with the 12-year Jupiter cycle. As part of the Chinese Calendar they are said to define the underlying character for anyone born in a given year.

    According to one chinese legend, all the animals were invited to a party hosted by the Emperor of Heaven. As a gift the Emperor assigned the first twelve animals to the zodiac in the order that they arrived. However, in their race to get to the party the final obsticle was a great river which all the animals find a way to cross.

    1) Rat

    The rat and the cat were not strong enough swimmers to fight the current of the river and so convinced the ox to let them ride on his back to get across. Being too eager to reach the other side; the rat jumped from the shoulders of the ox and became the first to arrive at the party. But in doing so he knocked the cat into the river, whose strong current swept the cat far down stream.

    2) Ox

    The ox was strong and big enough to ford the river, but being good-natured he lost his advantage to the cunning rat and so arrived in second place.

    3) Tiger

    Soon behind the ox came the tiger, whose great strength allowed him to swim against the treacherous current.

    4) Rabbit

    The rabbit managed to find a series of rocks to hop on in order to cross the river but nearly drown when he slipped from one. Luckily he managed to climb onto a floating log which took him to shore.

    5) Dragon

    Having the power to fly, the dragon had no problem crossing the river. However, he was held back because he hade to make rain to help a village who was suffering a drought. Just as he was about to arrive he saw the rabbit floating on a log and decided to blow him toward the river bank.

    6) Snake

    As everyone saw the horse just about to reach the shore, it suddenly reared up when it saw a snake coiled up around its hoof. The snake was flung toward shore even as the horse fell back in surprise.

    7) Horse

    The horse came in after the snake and to this day is still uneasy at his presence.

    8) Sheep

    The sheep, monkey and rooster worked together to cross the river. The rooster spotted a small boat hidden in some tall reeds and led the monkey and sheep to it. The sheep cleared the reeds away from the boat and with the help of the monkey, pulled the boat across the river using a rope that was tied to a tree on the other side of the river. The emperor was very pleased with their colaboration and placed them in the zodiac.

    9) Monkey

    10) Rooster

    11) Dog

    The dog was one of the best swimmers but became distracted from the task at hand. It was a hot day so the dog decided to frolic in the river and bathe before crossing.

    12) Pig

    The pig had decided to eat and take a nap before coming to the party and so was the last to arrive.

    After being knocked of the back of the ox by the rat, the cat was washed too far down the river to make it to the party in time. To this day the cat has an ongoing vendetta with the rat for getting him excluded from the zodiac.



  78.  #78Daria on November 29, 2010 at 3:48 am

    being a dog, i see i get distracted from doing stuff by PLAY!

    while a pig for example, would get distracted by wanting to be comfortable, relax and eat



  79.  #79Daria on November 29, 2010 at 3:58 am

    A concerned mommy-to-be asks…

    “I am looking to home school my child. He is not born yet, but I want to get as much info as I can. My husband is totally against it. He says my son is going to public school just like I did. Do you know of any information that I could give him that may change his mind”

    When I first decided to home school my children, my then husband was totally against it as well…his reason? He said I didn’t have the patience required to do it…*blink*…I told him I was going to do it anyway, and I resigned from my job and did it. About 2 months into the process he was bragging to all of his co-workers and friends about how much our children were learning and now 18 years and one college bound graduate later he still is not as pro-home school as I am BUT he remains a doting daddy…

    The truth of the matter is…we fear and are unsure of those things we do not understand and have not experienced. Most of us went to school as children and do not see another alternative. I would suggest sitting down with your husband and asking him if he honestly recalls his time at school being mostly positive or mostly negative? For most of us, school memories contain a great deal of fear, negativity, bullying, fighting and ridiculing by teachers and fellow students alike. If he recalls the negativity he experienced in school, tell him that you all have the opportunity to fill your son’s life with mostly positive experiences in regards to his education by home schooling him…

    Suscribe to Mothering magazine which supports home schooling and may be able to offer him differnt perspectives on it via its articles…research home schooling yourself so that you can give hm examples of people who home school and how their children are learning growing and succeeding…one high profile couple that comes to mind is Will and Jada Pinkett Smith and their children…find out what the source of his opposition is and speak with him about it…sometimes we have a fear of our children being “different” because we feel that it was the fact that we were “different” that caused us to be picked on and bullied during school…if that is the case with your husband discuss it with him in depth and explain that picking on other children comes from socialization being left to children as opposed to being led by adults…it has nothing to do with being “different”…we are all different in some wonderful way

    And…perhaps most importantly and MOST POWERFUL…explain to him what your end result is…when I received paternal opposition for deciding to practice extended breastfeeding with my son, I was hurt and confused and did not know how to explain my decision to those who did not support breastfeeding. I prayed and asked my Ancestors to help me explain why this part of mothering was so crucial and after meditating to some Afrikan drums I was able to speak My Truth on the topic…I said ” I will raise a Prince for you if you let me, my methods are unorthodox and what I do will not look like what other people are doing with their children, because I am seeking a different result. I promise you that if you trust me on this, you will be blessed with a son that you will always be proud of…who will be successful in anything that he puts his hand to…but you have to trust me and support me…”

    I was honest about what my the end result is that I am looking for and the oppostion could NOT stand in the face of that….let your husband know why you want to home school, let him know what the end result is you are working towards and let him know that you will not sacrifice your child for any doctrine but will ALWAYS do what is best for him…but that you are willing to make sacrifices to give him the BEST each and every day…open up the dialogue on the topic with Truth and Honesty so that yall can discuss it and it does not become a matter of you against him but a matter of we both want what is best for our child”

    ~more from Yeye



  80.  #80LonePlum on November 29, 2010 at 4:06 am

    15: tinque

    Thank you.
    I have cried but it stopped and I am back to feeling sick in my stomach.

    xxx



  81.  #81LonePlum on November 29, 2010 at 4:07 am

    16: Senior Lady Vibe

    Thank you. Yes we did.

    We were very different people, did not have the same point of view on life and love at all.
    We shared our good will towards each other.
    It turned into affection.

    xxx



  82.  #82LonePlum on November 29, 2010 at 4:07 am

    17: Jennifer

    43: life_is_too_short_to

    Thank you, I need love and light.

    xxx



  83.  #83LonePlum on November 29, 2010 at 4:08 am

    46: Laughing Goddess

    Thank you

    xxx



  84.  #84LonePlum on November 29, 2010 at 4:09 am

    49: AmberS

    Thank you, may Universe hear you.
    I feel afraid of Universe right now.
    But I will shake it.
    I will.

    xxx



  85.  #85LonePlum on November 29, 2010 at 4:10 am

    57: Brenda

    Thank you, I am praying he is in peace.

    xxx



  86.  #86LonePlum on November 29, 2010 at 4:10 am

    58: mary

    Thank you.

    xxx



  87.  #87LonePlum on November 29, 2010 at 4:11 am

    59: janjune

    Thank you, I wish he could hug me to ease the pain of his death.

    xxx



  88.  #88LonePlum on November 29, 2010 at 4:14 am

    67: Rori Raye

    Thank you

    It is just a technical bug that can happen on any web site, don’t worry.

    I posted my story in one piece and it did not show up.

    So, I broke it in 2 parts and posted part 1 then part 2

    Part 1 did not show up but part 2 did show up

    So I posted again part 1 which now shows up after part 2.

    It makes the story non understandable if read as it comes, but such is internet.

    Thank you for this wonderful island, Rori.

    xxx



  89.  #89LonePlum on November 29, 2010 at 4:15 am

    70: Lorelei

    Thank you.
    Yes, thanks to Rori and Sirens Island, I am catching myself trying to cover the pain.

    xxx



  90.  #90Rosa on November 29, 2010 at 4:18 am

    Brenda ,

    You are quietish. I am hoping you are ok with work finishing and that you have managed to sort out your internet /computer issues . I wish I was closer , I could help .

    Anyway Best wishes with this.



  91.  #91LonePlum on November 29, 2010 at 4:26 am

    67 Rori Raye

    Oh I just saw that my first post with the entire story is showing now as post number 5

    I understand better why you refer to “repeat”.

    You may delete the posts with half the story, then, they mess up your blog.

    You may delete posts number 6 +7+8+9+10

    I don’t know why the posts were not showing last night. I was not all there.

    xxx



  92.  #92Daria on November 29, 2010 at 4:55 am

    Ise Is The Medicine For Poverty

    “Ale mura e mura Ise O

    Ise O

    Ise”

    (phonetically from the song by O.J. Ekemode)

    “Doing is the medicine for poverty

    Doing Ohh

    Doing”

    The Yoruba word “ise” (pronounced ee shay) is normally translated as the English “work”

    I translate it differntly

    It appears to be related to the Yoruba word “ase” (pronounced ahh shay)

    Ase is the power to make something so…we sometimes think of it as an incantation at the end of a prayer or spiritual request that is a way of asking the Wombniverse to make it so

    But from the perspective of Our Ancestors , to whom the word belongs, ase IS the power to make it so…the word itself not only describes the phenomena, but actually IS the phenomena

    Back to ise…because it is closely related to ase which is the power of making things happen…ise from an Ancestral perspective seems to be the doing of things…the act of doing

    It is necessary to separate this from our English term work because the word work is generally related to groups of meaningless acts that accomplish gargantuan piles of NOTHING

    Seriously…for example

    My former job was as a counselor of juvenile deliquent youth in a treatment/correctional facility

    Of an eight hour day….the first six hours were spent, answering emails, returning phone calls, completing never ending stacks of forms, entering information onto the computer system….and only about 45 mins of the last hour was spent counseling the youth

    While all of this was work

    None of it was ise

    None of it accomplished any task in particular

    Ise is…growing the food that you eat

    Making the clothes that you wear

    Creating your home…building it and beautifying it

    Sharing information with others

    Dancing

    Singing

    Acting out and telling stories

    Making music

    Ise

    And according to Our Ancestors…Ise

    Actual doing…is the medicine for poverty

    You cannot be hungry while actively gathering, hunting and growing food

    You cannot need clothes while weaving cloth and creating clothing

    You cannot be homeless while building and beautifying a home

    “Doing is the medicine for poverty”

    I am always moved by the simplicity of the wisdom of Our Ancestors

    While we will create programs and build institutions and homeless shelters and welfare assistance

    It is only through doing that poverty can be alleviated

    I have taken this mantra to heart and realised that it is as simple as this in my own life as well

    Working…stringing together meaningless, unfulfilling, status quo maintaing tasks in order to pay the bills will never alleviate a state of want

    It is only ISE that can cure poverty

    Doing…being….fully existing within the context of the environment that I live in is all that will destroy the negative energies of want and need
    “Ise is the medicine for poverty”
    “Ise Oh Ise” ‘

    ~ Yeye … (sounds some like Daria… learning)

    is reading and learning Ise?



  93.  #93marina on November 29, 2010 at 5:06 am

    Oh dear LonePlum, your story made me cry, I send you((((hugs)))))

    I am mortified, I have to talk to my manager and HRM later today
    I feel I have put myself on the other side
    The inadequate loser side
    Is it really that bad or is my drama queen getting away with me?

    I feel like I want to throw up and then run run run far away
    They only knew about my physical problem, now I have to tell them about my psychological problem as well, and I don’t even understand it myself
    I just feel so tired and can’t get myself to go to work and enjoy it
    I want to feel ok with this, I want to feel it is the right thing to do, I want to feel that I should except their help
    I so do not want to feel like I am different than anybody else



  94.  #94Daria on November 29, 2010 at 5:09 am

    Hey LonePlum… drink lots of clear water so you can cry… and try to talk to him if u want… he may come visit you in your thoughts

    am feeling a quietness being here thinking of you



  95.  #95Daria on November 29, 2010 at 5:13 am

    marina – if anything i feel awed that you are brave and wise enough to notice that you feel this way and to take the time for yourself

    this is a blessing that you care for yourself this way

    you are depressed

    soothe your spirit

    Sing – i have tried to tell my mother – the words are unclear

    one doesnt have to sing a certain way to be allowed to sing

    it is a human birthright and a natural part of everyday joy

    there is no well… there is only the doing of it

    ise

    look for Brenda MacIntyre… song medicine woman



  96.  #96Daria on November 29, 2010 at 6:05 am

    “Life: Practical Magick

    Woe unto those who discourage the magick of others by insisting that life must be practical..you know the ones I mean…as soon as you mention a dream, a goal, a desire to them…they offer you a million and one reasons that it will not work OR they saddle you with ten thousand steps that you must take in order to make that dream a reality…these kinda folx are rarely even recognized as negative and as a matter of fact they may be known as givers of good advice…while all the time people are putting their dreams on the shelf and their goals in the rafters due to the “well meaning advice ” of those who lift up the blood stained banner of PRACTICALITY…look at the lives of those from whom you seek advice, are they living the life you want to lead? or do they seem to be in a perpetual rut? are they full of positivity and gratitude for life’s blessings? or do they spend most of their time berating others? Seek advice from those who are achieving things that you would like to achieve, NOT from those who lives are like stagnant pools of scum filled water…dream crushers, dream stealers, dream non-believers cannot show you how to live your dreams! They can only drain you of your energy, your enthusiasm and your positivity, like the vampires that they are…keep a heavy strand of Unlimited Belief in your Unlimited Potential around your neck as garlic to ward them off…where you put your energy is where you will see results, in all things…once you have put your energy towards a thing, The Entire Universe shifts to assist you in accomplishing that goal…all you have to do is continue to work towards it and be patient with Life…but KNOW that it will manifest…that is Magick…simple, pure and real…because in reality Life Itself Is Magick ”

    Posted by YeYe: Sweet Mother



  97.  #97Meemee on November 29, 2010 at 6:15 am

    Loneplum
    I was in such a hurry this morning, I didnt get time to go through the blog.
    I am sorry to hear this.
    I feel sad.
    Sending you tight hugs.
    Dont strangle a cry, don’t block a tear.
    Sending you warmth and love and peace.
    Take good care.
    Meemee



  98.  #98Brenda on November 29, 2010 at 6:41 am

    Daria,

    I am with you about not crushing the dreams of our friends.

    Speaking of majick, I even believe when someone speaks negatively of your dream, for example, “You’re never going to finish college”, they have just cast a curse on you.

    I don’t receive curses.

    I speak yes and go for it to all the Sirens and Heroes that our most cherished dreams will come true!



  99.  #99Brenda on November 29, 2010 at 6:42 am

    Daria,

    Re: #94 – MacIntyre isn’t my last name! 😆 Hehe!



  100.  #100Brenda on November 29, 2010 at 6:44 am

    Daria and LonePlum,

    RE: #93 – The night after my Dad passed away, I heard him say crystal clear, “I love you, Brenda” in HIS voice with exactly HIS intonation. It felt very comforting and has comforted me every time I think of him. I miss my Dad, and I will always love him.



  101.  #101Brenda on November 29, 2010 at 6:50 am

    Rosa,

    RE: #89 – Thank you for your thoughts! Yes, I have been busy adjusting into what I think of as “survival mode”. And when I haven’t been busy, I’ve been trying to relax. Being in a state of stress and worry won’t help me. Tomorrow (Tue) is my last day at my job, and I trust God that a better-paying job is just around the corner, doing something more enjoyable.

    I was told by a friend that the computer of my landlady needs a router and then a flash drive from that must be downloaded onto mine. I have a message in with her son, who is computer savvy, to see if he can direct me. If not, one of the leaders at my church said they have some computer experts at the church who can help me. So I may be offline a day or two until I get it connected after tomorrow.

    There are a lot of good job possibilities in my area for what I am qualified for.

    Are you out of the hospital yet? I pray for you when you come to mind.



  102.  #102Brenda on November 29, 2010 at 6:57 am

    I made a couple of cute videos at “faceinhole”, and I wanted to share them. They got lost in moderation on the last thread, #106:

    https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/heal-your-heart/4-ways-to-tell-if-you-really-do-love-yourself/



  103.  #103Brenda on November 29, 2010 at 6:58 am

    Oh, I meant to say, in order to make them play, you right-click on the screen and click “Play”. Fun stuff!



  104.  #104Brenda on November 29, 2010 at 7:00 am

    Oh, dagnabit! The “Robert Pattinson” video didn’t work. Oh well, I tried.



  105.  #105Brenda on November 29, 2010 at 7:02 am

    About the article, “How to Turn Him into a Good Husband”, etc, right on! It took me a long time to learn that with Kenny, and gone are the shouting matches.

    We have both gotten into a groove of getting along, and, altho we still get on each other’s nerves once in a while, we are really good at getting along with each other.

    Rori, it feels nice to hear an article from your husband! I enjoyed that!



  106.  #106Brenda on November 29, 2010 at 7:05 am

    C’mon! 7 am, California girls! Wakey, wakey!



  107.  #107marina on November 29, 2010 at 7:26 am

    Hi everyone,
    Phew, I survived it. I don’t feel I have cried that much for a long time and that in front of my manager and the HRMlady…
    I am actually kind of glad that I let it go this far and that I can get help now. I feel so stuck, I feel I really need and want to take care of this.
    I am also very happy that I have a job where it is possible to get help.
    And thank goodness that I found this website and have been practicing to feel my feelings, I feel it is the first step to healing 🙂

    Daria, I love what you wrote about ISE.
    I so understand what you mean.



  108.  #108Mercedes on November 29, 2010 at 7:36 am

    LonePlum: I’m so sorry and I’m thinking of you. I know how incredibly much it hurts to lose someone close and my heart is with you right now.

    Darling Ella: “So, my question right now is should I continue to go out on dates since I am afraid of him finding out…(I avoided answering his questions about me seeing someone else, yet I told him I keep myself open to go out on dates until he makes his mind about us a month ago)? What would you do?”

    I’m curious why you avoid his questions about you seeing someone else. Obviously he wants to know so why not tell him? When you hide what you are doing, it feels more like cheating than like rockstar…which is why you feel so horrible when you lie.

    It does no good to tell a man you are open to accepting other dates if you’re not openly accepting other dates (hiding it instead).

    The point of circular dating is to take care of yourself…look for what you want in a relationship…learn from and about what you don’t want…practice working new tools that feel uncomfortable with the man you want…remove focus from just one man…and let that man know it is entirely possible that what you want in a relationship is going to show up and snatch you away.

    All of those things are difficult to do if you’re hiding the dates and not being honest about them when asked. 🙁 I want to see you really, really go for the relationship of your dreams in a happy way…not in a feel bad for a man who isn’t stepping up way. 🙁

    I think “no girlfriend” means “no girlfriend”. Not “no girlfriend but willing to pretend to be your girlfriend so you won’t have to step up and you won’t feel bad about it when you don’t”.

    I know for me, if a man said “no boyfriend” I’d much prefer he not then lie to me. You said you want to see other people so make your actions match your words. I’ve heard so many guys say “I’m not looking for a relationship” but then they treat a woman like she’s a girlfriend and they sneak around with their dates…sending mixed messages…and she usually gets hurt.

    I know this is my own trigger, but when something feels like cheating to me it really, really bothers me and you not being honest feels like cheating to me. I hope you are able to be honest with your man and that this begins to feel easier for you. You deserve to date without hiding and feeling bad about it…everyone does. Being honest about it is the only real way to make that happen.

    As far as the post goes…I love it! I also recommend no blaming (and actually no arguing or fighting either) because it gets zero results. I love open communication…I love talking and enjoying each other’s company. I agree with Jeffrey in that when a man is yelling he can’t hear you…but I also think another side to it is that you don’t have to sit and listen to it either. I’d take the son by the hand and let my husband know the boy and I are going for a walk while he composes himself. And then would say the part about how I’m willing to talk when he’s ready. Sticking around and listening to a man yell and not be able to listen or be heard really isn’t in me. I don’t yell…so why be willing to get yelled at? LOL

    Anyway…great post…lots to catch up on…long weekend…soooo tired…

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  109.  #109Lorelei on November 29, 2010 at 7:57 am

    Brenda – loving the new photo shoot shots!!!!



  110.  #110Senior Lady Vibe on November 29, 2010 at 8:29 am

    @63: Rosa says:

    “…He was certainly not doing the Happy Couple lean in . It all looked a bit yikky.
    …And i could see the energy exchange right then and there in photos. This was fascinating. I immediately decided not to go on msn at any cost!!!…”

    Trouble in [his] Paradise… 😀

    Rosa, you are so wise…

    SLV



  111.  #111Brenda on November 29, 2010 at 8:31 am

    Lorelei,

    Eh-eh! Thanks! I hope to look like that for real in about a year! Rockstar! Superstar! LOL! 😆



  112.  #112Brenda on November 29, 2010 at 8:32 am

    BTW, this pic is a mermaid, in case it’s too tiny to see the tail behind me! 🙂



  113.  #113Meemee on November 29, 2010 at 8:58 am

    Meemee is knowing a city- a thought squeezed with excitement, a heart full of anxiety, feet that are hesitant to make steps unknown, yet a pair of curious eyes dying to explore more, a volley of questions, a traffic of newness, a rain of fear, a mouthful of doubts and a handful of hopes refusing to retreat. Knowing a city is like knowing someone anew.
    Meemee



  114.  #114Brenda on November 29, 2010 at 9:32 am

    Meemee,

    How poetic and beautiful! I love how you express yourself! I love to weave through the one way streets and alleyways of a new city! Exploring is fun!

    I’m happy for you to get a breath of newness and discovery!



  115.  #115Meemee on November 29, 2010 at 9:48 am

    Brenda
    Thanks my dear.
    Meemee



  116.  #116Meemee on November 29, 2010 at 9:50 am

    Loneplum
    Hope my lovely Loneplum feels okay.
    I think of you when I go to bed tonight.
    Sending you prayers and love and hugs
    Meemee



  117.  #117Isis on November 29, 2010 at 10:50 am

    plum-

    I feel sad to hear about your loss. It is very close to me and brought tears to my eyes. I have been through a few very close ones myself. My husband of 8 years died 4 years 1 month ago…I felt I could not go on without him here, and if I had a choice there would be no question about it, I would rather be with him, always. I miss him deeply. There is nothing and no one that can replace him. Soon after he passed on, he began to visit me in my dreams. At first to let me know he loves me and did not want to leave. Maybe your friend will find a way to visit you in your thoughts and dreams.
    I hope you feel all the sympathy, empathy, comfort and love everyone here is feeling for you. I am glad that you have everyone here to talk to about what you are going through. Do you have any friends at home who also knew him or were close to him?



  118.  #118Isis on November 29, 2010 at 10:51 am

    do all posts go thru an “awaiting moderation” period? am i not signed in properly?



  119.  #119Honey on November 29, 2010 at 10:53 am

    Meemee –

    You are a poet! I hope you enjoy your experience there fully. You are free to become.



  120.  #120Honey on November 29, 2010 at 10:56 am

    LonePlum –

    I need to stay off the blog for the most part cuz it consumes my life, but I did want to offer my sympathy. I read all about your friend. I have a guy friend like that…I would be devastated if I lost him. I am so sorry for your lost. I hope you will allow yourself to cry. Maybe you can write him a letter and the tears will come. Tears help to wash away the pain.

    Hugs and hugs and hugs…



  121.  #121Deb on November 29, 2010 at 11:46 am

    Mercedes – thanks for your last post!

    I’ve been struggling with this, because my intuition was telling me to be open about seeing other guys, but I thought it was “against the rules” to talk about it.

    A big knot has been growing in my stomach and totally tying up my feelings and blocking my energy flow. I was doing a channeling meditation exercise, where you envision yourself as a unique channel for the universe (think of an organ pipe!), and I definitely noticed this blockage and have been trying to figure out how to release it! I think holding back about my involvement with others is it.

    Ok – now I just need to riff a bit…

    I gave a “no sex without exclusiveness” speech last week to ShimSham, and leaned back and gave space while he was on a trip. Finally, he texted that he misses me and called to talk, but I was with Shag and the conversation ended awkwardly. He said he wanted to see me “later in the week,” but now a couple of days have gone by. I feel so nervous! I don’t want to feel this way! Shag is stepping up big time, but sometimes gets clingy and I feel turned off… I feel more compatible with ShimSham, like he “gets me” more and I can be more of my whole self around him…

    I am so frustrated and embarrassed that I am focusing so much energy on thinking about guys instead of my work right now! STOP IT BRAIN!!!

    I trust myself. I will openly express my honest emotions when he calls… I know he will. I accept that I cannot control the outcome. I trust my intuition. I trust I will know what to say because I will be speaking my truth. That is what’s best for me always. I can LET GO. Breathe. Let that knot go. Go dance like a sexy, free, fun-loving Siren tonight!

    Ok, I feel so much better. I feel motivated to get back to my work now. Thank you Siren Island!

    Deb xoxo



  122.  #122Daria on November 29, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Yeye a different goddess wrote the article on ise. I liked it and copied it from her blog. Some of the things she writes on I feel strong and powerful with.

    Some I feel strongly angry sad unseen.

    There are messages everywhere… The messenger need not see all.

    I am Goddess. And I will be seen and not denied.



  123.  #123Simply Shannon on November 29, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    Hi Mary! It feels good to hear from you! As for Mr. Manly Man, I don’t know. It’s been basically crumbs for the last few months. A random text here or there. With one date back in May. That’s it. Nothing to feel very excited about. He’s so hung up on me dating other people that he’s not really offering me anything. Kind of hard to say “YEAH I really wanna be your girlfriend”. Boo. Plus I feel fairly confident he currently has a girlfriend, which makes me feel super closed off and hesitant to even suggest being his girlfriend. 😉 I’m willing to let God work this one out. I’m not pursuing him. He’s gonna have to come out of the gate and start running because the finish line (me) ain’t getting any closer. LOL!

    And thanks for the feedback on the convo with my ex. I do feel like the door is closed. Good stuff there all around. He’s made the decision for our family, and I’m letting him lead. I can’t control him, so I feel ready to move on.

    So what’s going on with you? How long have you and Music Man been going out? (That’s his name right? I feel forgetful!) And you feel good? No pressure from you or him? I love that this is going well. Being a rockstar and choosing your own way, which is how I imagine Rori wants it anyway, i.e. as long as we feel good in the situation…



  124.  #124Mercedes on November 29, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    Deb: I don’t think talking about it is against the rules. I think it’s none of his business but if a woman feels like she is cheating or doing it behind the guy’s back or if she lies about it, then honesty is the absolute best policy in my mind.

    There’s no real need to tell the guy for the guy’s sake, but if you can’t date with confidence and “rockstar” unless you do tell him then I would highly recommend it! But…I don’t like to deceive people I care about so for me, I would tell (I actually DID tell J when I was circular dating…he hated it and pouted about it and got insanely jealous but those were really his problems, not mine. I was just in a place where I needed to feel good again.).

    The key to telling is to do it so you can get it all out in the open and feel better about yourself. The key is NOT to tell so you can try to make him jealous, make him step up or win him back. If your motivation for telling is anything other than feeling good about your life then…well…it will backfire in my opinion.

    Anyway…that’s just how I see it and how I applied it when I was using the CD tool.

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  125.  #125Hadassah on November 29, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    Update – the ex bf texts me on Thanksgiving after no contact for a bit. He starts out with “I guess you are ignoring me Happy Thanksgiving”. I replied that I wasn’t ignoring him and that I told him if he wants to date, he needs to ask me out on a date. Then he asks if he can come by so he can pick his stuff up (which is great, because then I get my key back!) so I say sure, let’s do it Monday or Tuesday. So tomorrow is the first day in nearly a month that I will be seeing him. And he is mad because I told him he can’t come over until 8 because by then my daughter will be in bed and I don’t want her seeing him. It was REALLY hard for me to hear her ask about him for the first week after we broke up. I am not doing that to her.

    One guy from Ok Cupid called me on Friday night at 4 to ask me to go out Friday night. I told him no because I already had plans. So then he texts me and says, “well geez you are always so busy, you need to call me to set something up.” I ignored it. I have told him more than once I don’t ask men out on dates.

    He calls me last night at 10:30. Um, really? I told him I don’t take calls or texts past 9:30pm. I didn’t answer, even though I was awake, because I was on the phone (another story soon to follow). THEN he doesn’t leave a voicemail,and sends me a three “page” ranting text about how he isn’t going to chase me and if I want to see him I need to call him because he is sick of trying to get me to go out with him”.

    I didn’t even bother replying. Every time I started to reply, I was trying to explain something that didn’t need explaining. I TOLD him I don’t do last minute dates. He is the one that chose to ask me out two hours beforehand and I was busy. I told him I don’t take calls past 9:30 and he chose to call at 10:30. Not my problem. Oh well!

    On another note, I don’t know if anyone noticed my post last week about a 40 year old guy that emailed me and how I was nervous about the age difference, but he has been stepping up big time. He texts me cute things sporadically, seems completely understanding about how I need to plan to go out because of the baby, he calls when he says he is going to, and he asked me out for lunch for this Wednesday. I love talking to him. He seems so sweet and genuine and I really can not WAIT to meet him.

    I am cautiously optimistic but super excited at the same time. He is really funny and sweet and I sometimes feel like he is almost too good to be true, and you know what they say about that. But maybe it is just the universe giving me exactly what I want – maybe I shouldn’t just start looking for things that are wrong with it. I am so used to guys treating me like crap and me taking the crumbs that when a guy steps up at all, it makes me feel like he is just acting so I fall for him so then he can treat me like crap and I am just waiting for the other shoe to drop. I think I have trust issues 🙂



  126.  #126Rachel on November 29, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    Rosa,

    I have been noticing the body language thing on Facebook too! Recently one of my friends posted pictures of her engagement … it was a surprise and another couple was there (in on the surprise) and snapping pictures. There were about 20 pictures of this “happiest moment” and all I could see was how my friend was hanging all over her fiance and how he was stiff as a board with his arms literally hanging at his sides! Now for some reason, he DID propose to her … but his body language was screaming disconnection and discomfort and hers looked super clingy and needy. It was like I could hear her saying “Whew.. I finally landed him” and he was saying, “OMG … what did I just do?”

    I looked through all of her other photos. Yep … on every one, she is the initiator for the physical affection … draped all over him, pressing into him, her hands on HIS face while SHE kisses him… on and on.

    I found it to be very revealing. I wonder what will become of their relationship. Her FB postings are all gushy and raving about their amazing love. His … say nothing about her! His profile picture is just him. Hmmm…

    And yes, it definitely makes me think about my relationships and the way I present myself in random “snapshots.” This is a great exercise to ponder.

    I feel happy that seeing this has given you a deeper peace about this man. I continue to wish you a speedy recovery and all of life’s best!!



  127.  #127Simply Shannon on November 29, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    Grrr. I feel angry. I feel afraid. I want a man to show up. What the heck.

    I am all that and a bag of chips. What the heck.

    My ex is getting married.
    Mr. Manly Man is crumb slumming.
    Mr. Fab Kisser is whatever.

    I want some choices here God. Would You hook a sista up please?

    I feel lonely. Boo. Unhappy and mad.

    I love myself. I love my lonely feelings. I wonder who will show up.

    I don’t want to feel lonely.
    I don’t want to feel afraid.
    And yet I do. Right now.
    I feel my feelings. I love and honor my feelings.

    I feel sad. Tense. Unprotected. Lonely.

    Sad, sad, sad.

    I love my feelings. I wish the tears would come.
    Bath my lonely feelings in tears God.

    God, I believe You when You say You keep Your promises. And yet I still feel lonely. It feels difficult to wait, to be patient in this process. I don’t know how to do this. I mean I do, but I don’t want to wait anymore. I feel afraid even mentioning patience, like I’m asking You to test my patience so I learn this lesson. Ugh. I feel weak. Thank you for being strong when I am not. I trust You. Please give me clarity and peace of mind during this journey. You are working out all things for my good. I know this. I believe this. You’ve changed my life. Given me knowledge and peace. Given me Siren Island to process so much of my journey. Thank You. Please wrap me in Your love and peace. I need it right now. I feel sad and alone. Amen.

    Ah yes, the tears. There they are…



  128.  #128tinque on November 29, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    🙁 Shannon. I feel you.
    xxoo



  129.  #129Rachel on November 29, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    I’m here with you, Shannon. Feeling many of the same things. Hugs to you …and the beautiful, healing tears!



  130.  #130Luzy on November 29, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    I feel frustrated 🙁

    Last Friday’s CD text me yesterday saying hi etc, today he just sent me a picture of himself without a shirt I jokingly replied “I hope you are wearing pants” which he replied “yes..lol”, but he has not call to talk or ask me on a second date.

    Spain guy had to work on Saturday so the date was canceled and last night he sent me a text saying how tired he was after working so much, but still wanted to say hi; I replied “have a nice sleep”. I used to hint men to get 2nd dates with them, but now I am leaning back and waiting for them to step up, but they just act like 12 yr old boys in middle school. Ugh!!!!

    What am I doing wrong? I think I am putting walls…



  131.  #131Lucy on November 29, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    Aw, Shannon, that’s exactly how I have been feeling the last couple days. 🙁 I couldn’t cry either, and then fb college guy texted me about my recent fb statuses, asking, “Why have you been so blue? Why is your heart so heavy?” and I just burst into tears… which was good. But today I have felt so much pain in my heart.

    I don’t understand, either — you are beautiful and wonderful, and so am I… so what’s the deal????

    I wrote a little (true) story tonight with my pain, and I feel a little better having created something with it . . . but the story itself is kinda depressing and mildly hopeful.

    Love and hugs to you, Shannon — and all who hurt tonight. <3



  132.  #132Daria on November 29, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    Contact with dads drops when women ovulate

    November 29, 2010 By Meg Sullivan (PhysOrg.com) –

    – Through an innovative use of cell phone records, researchers at UCLA, the University of Miami and Cal State, Fullerton, have found that women appear to avoid contact with their fathers during ovulation.

    “Women call their dads less frequently on these high-fertility days and they hang up with them sooner if their dads initiate a call,” said Martie Haselton, a UCLA associate professor of communication in whose lab the research was conducted.

    Because they did not have access to the content of the calls, the researchers are not able to say for sure why ovulating women appear to avoid father-daughter talks. They say the behavior may be motivated by an unconscious motive to avoid male control at a time when the women are most fertile. But a more primal impulse may be at work: an evolutionary adaptation to avoid inbreeding.

    {Daria says: yup}

    Whatever the case, the researchers know that the findings are consistent with past research on the behavior of other animals when they are at their most fertile.

    “Evolutionary biologists have found that females in other species avoid social interactions with male kin during periods of high fertility,” said the study’s lead author Debra Lieberman, a University of Miami assistant professor of psychology. “The behavior has long been explained as a means of avoiding inbreeding and the negative consequences associated with it. But until we conducted our study, nobody knew whether a similar pattern occurred in women.”

    The findings appear in the latest issue of Psychological Science, a prominent peer-reviewed scholarly journal.

    The study builds on a mounting body of evidence of subtle and significant ways in which women’s behavior is unconsciously affected by the approach and achievement of ovulation — a physical change that in humans has no outward manifestation of its own. Research has found that women tend to dress more attractively, to alter the pitch of their voices ways that are perceived as more attractive by men, and to contemplate more frequently the possibility of straying from their mates during high as opposed to low fertility periods of their menstrual cycle. Research has also shown that women are more attracted during high-fertility periods to men whose physique and behavior are consistent with virility, especially if they’re not already mated to men with these characteristics.

    {Daria says: lol! so much for males straying}

    For the latest study, the researchers examined the cell phone records of 48 women between the ages of 18 and 22 — or near the height of a woman’s reproductive years.

    {Daria says: whoa Nelly! thats a short baby range! we are at “the height” from puberty to menopause}

    Over the course of one cell phone billing period, the researchers noted the date and duration of calls with two different people: the subjects’ fathers and their mothers. They then identified the span of days comprising each woman’s high and low fertility days within that billing period.

    {Daria says: how did they do this? checking their temp? mucus? time? picked all regular period women … hmm}

    Women were about half as likely to call their fathers during the high fertility days of their cycle as they were to call them during low fertility days. Women’s fertility had no impact, however, on the likelihood of their fathers calling them. Women also talked to their fathers for less time at high fertility, regardless of who initiated the call, talking only an average of 1.7 minutes per day at high fertility compared to 3.4 minutes per day at low fertility.

    The researchers concede that the high-fertile women might simply be avoiding their fathers because fathers might be keeping too close an eye on potential male suitors. But their data cast some doubt on this possibility. It is more likely, they conclude, that like females in other species, women have built-in psychological mechanisms that help protect against the risk of producing less healthy children, which tends to occur when close genetic relatives mate.

    “In humans, women are only fertile for a short window of time within their menstrual cycle,” Lieberman said. “Sexual decisions during this time are critical as they could lead to pregnancy and the long-term commitment of raising a child. For this reason, it makes sense that women would reduce their interactions with male genetic relatives, who are undesirable mates.”

    The reluctance to engage in conversations with fathers could not be attributed to an impulse to avoid all parental control during ovulation. In fact, the researchers found that women actually increased their phone calls to their mothers during this period of their cycle, and that this pattern was strongest for women who felt emotionally closer to their moms. At high fertility, women proved to be four times as likely to call their mothers as they were to phone their fathers, a difference that did not exist during the low fertility days. In addition, women spent an average of 4.7 minutes per day on the phone with their mothers during high fertility days, compared to 4.2 minutes per day during low-fertility.

    One possible explanation is that women call their moms for relationship advice, said Elizabeth Pillsworth, who also contributed to the study.

    “They might be using mothers as sounding boards for possible mating decisions they’re contemplating at this time of their cycle,” said Pillsworth, an assistant professor of evolutionary anthropology at California State University, Fullerton. “Moms have a lot more experience than they do. Particularly for those women who are close to their mothers, we can imagine them saying, ‘Hey Mom, I just met this cute guy, what do you think?'”

    Either way, the findings show that women are unconsciously driven during their most fertile periods to behavior that increases the odds of reproducing as well as potentially doing so with a genetically appropriate mate, said Haselton.

    “We think of ourselves as being emancipated from the biological forces that drive animal behavior,” she said.

    {Daria says: umm… no “WE” DON’T Goddess Martie Hasselton}

    “But this suggests that our every day decisions are often still tied to ancient factors that for millennia have affected survival and reproduction.”

    Provided by University of California – Los Angeles (news : web)



  133.  #133Luzydel on November 29, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    I don’t understand why men sent suggestive pictures I don’t request the at all. Are they expecting a compliment? I feel “icky” about it. Like what am I suppose to say? I wonder if I am giving men some sexual vibes without realizing it.

    So far the tools are making me look lost, Maybe I am a more masculine woman and being feminine is coming off as fake and men can sense that…



  134.  #134Daria on November 29, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    Hormone oxytocin bolsters childhood memories of mom’s affections

    November 29, 2010 Researchers have found that the naturally-occurring hormone and neurotransmitter oxytocin intensifies men’s memories of their mother’s affections during childhood. The study was published today in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

    Researchers at the Seaver Autism Center for Research and Treatment at Mount Sinai School of Medicine wanted to determine whether oxytocin, a hormone and neurotransmitter that is known to regulate attachment and social memory in animals, is also involved in human attachment memories. They conducted a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over trial, giving 31 healthy adult men oxytocin or a placebo delivered nasally on two occasions. Prior to administering the drug/placebo, the researchers measured the men’s attachment style. About 90 minutes after administering the oxytocin or the placebo the researchers assessed participants’ recollection of their mother’s care and closeness in childhood.

    They found that men who were less anxious and more securely attached remembered their mothers as more caring and remembered being closer to their mothers in childhood when they received oxytocin, compared to when they received placebo. However, men who were more anxiously attached remembered their mothers as less caring and remembered being less close to their mothers in childhood when they received oxytocin, compared to when they received placebo. These results were not due to more general effects of oxytocin on mood or well-being.

    “These results may seem surprising because researchers have assumed that the neuromodulator oxytocin has ubiquitous positive effects on social behavior and social perception in humans,” said Jennifer Bartz, PhD, Assistant Professor, Psychiatry, Mount Sinai School of Medicine, and lead author of the study. “The fact that oxytocin did not make all participants remember their mother as more caring, but in fact intensified the positivity or negativity of the men’s pre-existing memories, suggests that oxytocin plays a more specific role in these attachment representations. We believe that oxytocin may help people form memories about important social information in their environment and attach incentive value to those memories.

    “However, we do not know whether oxytocin, when administered in drug form, increases a person’s ability to accurately recall their mother’s affections in childhood, or sets in motion a biased search for memories that support their more general beliefs about close relationships.”

    The ability to bond with our caregivers early in life has long been thought to be critical to survival because these bonds insure caregiver protection for the otherwise defenseless infant.

    “We know very little about the biological mechanisms that support human attachment bonds, but understand that oxytocin regulates attachment in animals, and plays a specific role in forming social memories,” said Dr. Bartz. “Our study suggests that oxytocin may similarly play a key role in human attachment by modulating these early memories of mom.”

    Provided by The Mount Sinai Hospital



  135.  #135Daria on November 29, 2010 at 6:30 pm

    Luzydel – some men just do that, i don’t think it has to do with YOU

    if it feels icky.. i tell them

    i feel weird getting unrequested x rated pics… actually i feel angry and i dont want to receive these kind of pics from a man i am just getting to know



  136.  #136Katnina on November 29, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    Hi Rosa, still have some time til the performance (it’s on December 10), so going to wait til closer to the day so I can see how I am feeling about inviting him.
    When is G-man coming to town?



  137.  #137Katnina on November 29, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    Hi Daria, I am really digging your info on childbirth and ovulation! Wondering if you have read Taking Charge of Your Fertility? I found it very enlightening-it felt like the mysteries of my body were being uncloaked!
    I only read it about a year ago and feel kind of sad that I didn’t know all of that stuff when I was a teenager. But so thankful that I know it now!



  138.  #138Siena on November 29, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    I did an interesting experiment this weekend that worked!

    I was with MM, and I was wanting him to reach out to me (hold my hand, touch my shoulder, etc).

    I’m naturally a bit touchy feely, but this time because I wanted him to do it, I knew I couldn’t (since it would be leaning forward and expecting something).

    So I repeated the mantra to myself, “I am beautiful, open and available”, and tried to visualize all my energy contained within myself, without any spilling out to him.

    Within moments he reached for me.

    Shazam!! I wish I had known this when I was 15!!!

    Love to all you beautiful sirens! SS especially – know that this is only a season, and “this too shall pass”. Your man is at this very moment longing for you to reveal yourself to him. So be encouraged!!

    xoxo



  139.  #139Simply Shannon on November 29, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    Thanks Sirens! I feel better now. God answered my prayers. I’ll be sleeping with two males tonight. So what if they’re my kids. Snuggles. Yum! 😉

    I find it interesting that my everyday self wants to banish these sad feelings. “It’s just my period” or “snap out of it”. I can write it here but I feel weird expressing it. I feel sad lately. I can’t seem to shake it.

    A lot of it is being triggered by Mr. Manly Man’s text. I’m sailing right along and wham… welcome to bummer city. I actually would feel grateful if he quit texting me. I mean if it’s just going to be crumbs and the same ol’ song and dance, I’d rather have him off my horse. So what if I chased him off.

    A part of me is second guessing my text. The one saying I felt angry. I have a hard time expressing my anger without exploding. Oh well. I said it. I can’t say the wrong thing to the right person. Choosing to believe that rather than the NV which is currently telling me to text him and explain.

    Will.Not.Text.Him.



  140.  #140Simply Shannon on November 29, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    Siena, I love the experiment. I love the idea of containing the energy and not allowing any of it to spill out. I think when I envision wanting affection, the vibe is “touch me please” rather than contained. I like that. Will practice it very soon.

    Lucy, praying for you chicka.



  141.  #141Brenda on November 29, 2010 at 7:38 pm

    Everything will work out according to God’s will.



  142.  #142Simply Shannon on November 29, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    Brenda, I know the intention of your comment is for good but something about it is triggering me. I feel weird, like “duh”. How does that comment make you feel?

    Hmm… why is this triggering me?

    I do trust God and yet I still feel my feelings. When I think about God’s will like that, a part of me says then what’s the point of praying. He hears me anyway, may as well carry on a conversation. I know one day I’ll look back and see how all of the jigsaw pieces fit together. I don’t understand it right now though. I don’t see the big God picture. And it’s hard. It’s hard to sit and wait. It’s hard to not know what’s next. I feel mad, like the kid throwing a temper tantrum in aisle four of Walmart. Dadddd… don’t you know how much I need this? Pleassssseeee. Can I have it NOW? Pleassssseeee!!!

    So what is He seeing that I’m not? Where is the roadblock? I don’t see it. I don’t see the next step. I could blather on about how happy I feel with my life and I do, but why not a relationship? I don’t understand.

    I do trust God’s will, and I’ve been praying for peace and clarity while God shifts around the puzzle pieces. Some days the peace is a little better than others. Today is not one of those days.

    I love and accept myself completely. I feel giddy just this second. I really do believe things are shifting. Even in my sadness, my hope is alive and kicking.

    I just wish I could see the next step.

    God, if You could show me the next step, I’d feel really happy and grateful. As Siena said, show me how to reveal myself. Thank you for moving the puzzle pieces and removing the crud that no longer fits. Amen.



  143.  #143Senior Lady Vibe on November 29, 2010 at 8:11 pm

    @138: Brenda says:

    “Everything will work out according to God’s will.”

    I’m not Catholic; I’m Protestant and believe in free will, not predestination.

    All the best to you.

    SLV



  144.  #144Simply Shannon on November 29, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    Ladies, I’d like to ask for some help. My bible study group is tomorrow (Tuesday) and I’m trying to figure out ways to share some of Rori’s teachings with them. I’ve guided a few here, but I don’t think any of them have visited.

    Where’s the best place to start? Just describing feeling messages and how to use them? I just happened upon a bible verse last night about taming the tongue and it’s a perfect segue to feeling messages. After all, women are the “body” in the bible. Being in the “body” is exactly what Rori is about. It all fits so perfectly. I feel really interested in sharing this with the group and am wondering how and/or what.

    Any suggestions?



  145.  #145Simply Shannon on November 29, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    SLV: “All the best to you”… I read that as code for “thank you for playing but you are forever banished”. Yes/no?



  146.  #146Siena on November 29, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    SS, I have a little different understanding of “God’s will”, if you are open to it. I don’t share to try to affect your beliefs at all, but just because when I came to this understanding, everything shifted for me.

    I used to sit in prayer for hours (years) asking God to reveal His will to me. And I never seemed to receive an answer. (or rarely at least)

    Then one day, when I was reflecting on “ask and you shall receive”, I had a revelation. If I believed that God gives when I ask, then it must mean that I was receiving what I asked for, but it meant I was asking for the very thing I didn’t want.

    So, delving into that a little, I discovered that some people teach that asking with emotion is receiving. So emotion = asking. And asking = receiving. So emotion = receiving.

    I realized that I had been focusing with emotion on the very things I didn’t want, and had therefore been receiving them time and again.

    So I was asking for what I didn’t want, and receiving it. i believe God said that would happen, I just heard half of it (I switched it to “ask for good things and receive them”).

    Not to say that bad things shouldn’t be worked thru in the emotions, and feelings shouldn’t be felt in to (bc they should), but for me, I had to start becoming a gatekeeper of my thoughts, making sure that even the most subtle thoughts were brought to the surface and weighed against my true desires.

    FWIW, it’s a discipline that some of the earliest Christian writers taught, but again, that I misinterpreted ( I thought they meant control only lustful or “bad” thoughts.)

    My intention isn’t to preach, but hopefully to help reinforce what you already know… That God is extremely faithful, and as often as you are asking, He is answering and giving to you.

    Lots of love 😀



  147.  #147Siena on November 29, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    SS re #141, I say Luke 12:12 (I had to Google that, haha)



  148.  #148Simply Shannon on November 29, 2010 at 8:41 pm

    Siena, Oh yeah! Thank you! I’d love to hear more. Would you mind sharing an actual prayer? I don’t understand what you mean. I’m a newbie in every sense of the word (been almost one year as a Christian). I’m learning how to pray. When I’m leading a prayer for a group, the words just come. I don’t even remember half the time what I’ve said and yet it touches the group. It feels crazy weird when that happens. So I trust that voice because I know it’s not me. But my own praying… I don’t really know. For me it’s mostly a conversation.

    I am really interested in this. Oh I feel excited! Hooray! Ok, going to meditate on that verse and re-read your words. Hopefully this will click for me.

    Thank you!!!



  149.  #149Brenda on November 29, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    Grrrr! I just wrote Shannon a LONG post, and it got lost!! 🙁

    I just cleared my history, favorites, etc in preparation to give this laptop back to my company. And because my name was no longer filled in for submitting a comment, the comment got lost.

    Too tired to rewrite. But I feel bad, because I put a lot of myself into it.

    Good night! Love you all!



  150.  #150Simply Shannon on November 29, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    Haha! Siena, see… now that verse you quoted is exactly the crazy weirdness I’m talking about. That’s exactly what happens during each of my bible study groups! I typically don’t prepare too much ahead of time (part lazy but partly don’t want to over analyze and make the study too rigid). I’d rather His voice just come out. And it always does. Even the “Taming the Tongue” verse came out randomly last night so I know this is where God wants me to go. Just not sure how to get there from here.



  151.  #151Brenda on November 29, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    Siena,

    Deep stuff!

    Shannon,

    I will rewrite tomorrow.



  152.  #152Brenda on November 29, 2010 at 8:48 pm

    Shannon,

    How bout just reading the article on this thread and opening it up for discussion?

    Keep it simple, sweetheart!



  153.  #153Brenda on November 29, 2010 at 8:49 pm

    Shannon,

    Sometimes a good prayer is just to read the Psalms! So many of them are just so meaningful!



  154.  #154Siena on November 29, 2010 at 8:59 pm

    SS, yay!

    Oh gosh, there’s so much to this, it’s hard to explain on a blog!

    I’m gonna write in bullet points for brevity (even tho it might come off as colder than I’d like)

    – Matt 5:45 – God gives to just and unjust (doesn’t discriminate between “good” and “bad”
    – “ask and it is given.” No modifiers there. Nothing about “good” ppl asking for “good” things. It’s just “ask and it is given” EVERY TIME.
    -There is no such thing as “lack” in God. Ie, “no” doesn’t exist. Only “yes”

    So when I pray with emotion “God, please send me my man! I’m so lonely!! I feel so sad!! Please!!!” (for ex)

    My heart is speaking “loneliness, sadness”.

    God says yes.

    I receive that.

    So instead, I switch my prayer to, “God, thank you for bringing the people into my life who bring me joy! I love them so much!! Much, much more of that please!! I love people around me!! Thank you!!”

    God hears, “thank you” (brings more things that evoke gratitude)

    “joy” – (brings more joy)

    “love”. – (brings more love)

    There’s a different feung to the two prayers, although they are essentially saying the same thing.

    How does that feel?



  155.  #155Siena on November 29, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    feung = feeling

    Yay iPhone!!



  156.  #156Daria on November 29, 2010 at 9:10 pm

    Katnina – I dint know that I’ve read the book but I’ve read info from a site w that name I think



  157.  #157Senior Lady Vibe on November 29, 2010 at 9:21 pm

    @145: Simply Shannon says:
    “SLV: “All the best to you”… I read that as code for “thank you for playing but you are forever banished”. Yes/no?”

    Playing? Forever banished? No, Shannon, there is no “code.” And I have no idea how you construed this because I wrote it in a straight forward way. I stated a very basic difference in belief and I wished Brenda all the best, although her belief is not the same as mine.

    SLV



  158.  #158Luzydel on November 29, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    135: Daria

    I guess I felt triggered when I saw his shirtless picture. Even though My weight is fine and I keep in shape, I still feel inadequate and self conscious with my nude body. This guy looked good after all and the negative side of my brain started to target my confidence. Like I have a C-section mark, My hips look too big, He will not like me if he ever sees me naked etc ect.

    I wish I can be as confident about my body as this man is about his…



  159.  #159Daria on November 29, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    Luzydel – u can! I am!

    I love the scar ( on my arm )

    Babysteps… See itself as a Goddess

    If a goddess showed up glowing in front of you, sparkling colors, would you tell her her scars are not symbols of power and magic?

    Her hips are not a divine size?

    You Are that goddess!

    Babysteps!



  160.  #160Katnina on November 29, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    Hi Daria, the site is by the same woman who wrote the book, Toni Weschler. She’s awesome! I started charting my cycle last January & it’s really cool to see how my body tells me what’s going on.
    It’s also pretty interesting-I try to track my feelings along w my cycle and certain things coincide-like feeling negative about work at a certain time or feeling a strong urge to lean forward at certain points in my cycle.
    What do you think about it?



  161.  #161Deb on November 29, 2010 at 11:44 pm

    Hey SS,

    You might be interested in the book Captivating by John and Stasi Eldredge. I borrowed it from my roommate recently and just LOVED it. It really helped me reconnect to my Christian upbringing and meld it with the new concepts I’ve been learning from RR.

    Here is a little description from Amazon.com:

    “Every little girl has dreams of being swept up into a great adventure, of being the beautiful princess. Sadly, when women grow up, they are often swept up into a life filled merely with duty and demands. Many Christian women are tired, struggling under the weight of the pressure to be a “good servant,” a nurturing caregiver, or a capable home manager.

    What Wild at Heart did for men, Captivating is doing for women. Setting their hearts free. This groundbreaking book shows readers the glorious design of women before the fall, describes how the feminine heart can be restored, and casts a vision for the power, freedom, and beauty of a woman released to be all she was meant to be. By revealing the core desires every woman shares-to be romanced, to play an irreplaceable role in a grand adventure, and to unveil beauty-John and Stasi Eldredge invite women to recover their feminine hearts, created in the image of an intimate and passionate God. Further, they encourage men to discover the secret of a woman’s soul and to delight in the beauty and strength women were created to offer.”

    I just love the core desires part! I found it helpful when I needed reassurance. The book offers the perspective of God as your lover, always desiring you and pursuing you. So, when I remember to receive God’s love, I feel a glow inside, like I know something that no one can take away.

    I hope that’s maybe helpful to you! Has anyone else read it?



  162.  #162mary on November 30, 2010 at 12:05 am

    Simply Shannon,

    I say just take yourself to Bible study. Don’t worry about directing them anywhere or showing them anything or teaching at all. Just be there. Just show up. That’s all…

    They’ll ask if they want to know. Then tell them your truth. Then tell them your experience. Then share those precious pearls from your heart.

    You always leave me wanting more of your thoughts!

    It always seemed to me that my most effective prayers over the years were just telling God about my day. And about my fears and my joys and my triumphs and my new friends and my humiliations and my sorrows… just like you’re doing… so that’s cool.

    And thanks for remembering about Music Man. I went back through many many nights of my own personal journaling on this blog and found references to him – always good ones! – but I was overlooking all of those great times because of Island Man, who wasn’t as interested in me as I would have liked for him to have been.

    Island Man was not a match for me. He was too athletic, too organic, too down-to-grass-roots, preferred women who wore no makeup (wha?????) and he wasn’t very consistent. He also only wore t-shirts and said he had no use for women who wore high heels (???? !!!!!! ?? ummm… i don’t understand… !!)

    Music Man, however… is FUN. Oh! He loves my clothes! And my shoes! And my makeup. And my long hair, which he cut a few inches! Yes, we have a blast together. He says it’s been magical from Day One and the magic is still happening. He says, “I want to MARRY you! I want to spend the rest of my life with you! You’re amazing! We have fun! You’re up for everything! Where did you come from?” So something is working.

    Oh, but wow. Did I ever spend all those nights alone! And in pain with my unavailable man before my epic circular dating whiz-bang ring-cycle Rori Raye escapades that ended with Music Man… who’s saying all the right things… now…

    Who knows how it will turn out? I don’t. And I’m away now, and missing him. And who knows what he’s doing? He says he’s waiting for me…

    … hope so!

    We’ll see.

    I think that – in my older age here – it’s important to just be in the moment with whatever is happening. I mean, why is the object to be happy? Happy is just one way to be. Other ways are so valuable, too. Other feelings are authentic and real and human and gritty and really there and full of life too. Aren’t they?

    I think so.

    Easy to say from here. But let me please share the joy, too! I already shared lots of sorrow with you guys.

    And I love it that you’re not missing those beautiful hugs of your sweet little boys! Sounds like you’re doin’ fine… camping on all the important things… I’m sad that you’re experiencing so many endings, but… I say, just be there in the endings. Just show up. That’s all… like you’re doing…

    Love, Mary



  163.  #163mary on November 30, 2010 at 12:08 am

    Hello Daria!

    Goodnight, all…



  164.  #164Rosa on November 30, 2010 at 12:24 am

    Hi Sirens,

    Yes i am out of hospital and thank you all so much for all the hugs and prayers and thoughts and wishes, I have sailed through this and i am feeling great 2 weeks out of a 9 hour anaesthetic. !! The lovely Sirens support has been a wonderful boost .I can feel that energy coming at me right around the world. THANK YOU.

    SLV @ 110 ”
    Trouble in [his] Paradise… “-

    yes AND having leaned way back , I received a lovely email today from G-man -over -the -ocean asking can he come and stay with me for 3 days next week and how he’d love to care for me. He has included all his train connections from airport (he has been researching this a while!)
    It feels like a long DATE !!! Woohoo !! He is coming to Sydney and will be around till after Christmas , but he wanted to take an earlier flight so as to look after me at a time when i need it. I might add that my Birthday is the middle day of the three.

    So leaning back is showing RESULTS..and yes, the snapshot tool is a HUGE clue. I was so interested to read what Rachel wrote about the engaged couple she knows ..Certainly if G-man were committed to GF he would not be moving in with me, for a few days , not when he is so attracted and has been for years ,knows me so well and has been trying to see me for months now.. 🙂

    It feels such a relief to see this as a CD relationship. It means i can feel like a rock star receiving his love , and I have no doubt thats what he is giving..just no commitment 🙂 So waterwheel me G-Man .Yaayy , I feel gloriously watered by his care and attention . I might add that he is a penniless student at present , unemployed for 12 months aged 53 he is part way through his third degree course (Law this time !) which makes all this more challenging for him , just getting to me etc. He loves a challenge. My degree of difficulty has gone up up up.

    I am going to re-read all the tools and blogs in the next week and keep practicing RECEIVING, soft and open heart when he approaches, losing any residual blame over the past and just BEING .I was so much in my masculine energy ever since he knew me. I even remember boasting to him several years ago that although I looked all girl i could “think like a man” Eeeeuuuwww!! I would NEVER say that now . I would just keep all that for work and not let it come into the relationship.

    But mostly what has changed is my neediness and desperation ,my cactus -ness, my expectation of commitment , my disappointment when he would run (and boomerang back , over and over) ..its GONE . I truly feel leaned back and he is just another CD. If he never steps up i will be hopefully too busy to notice .

    I feel gorgeous
    I feel sweet
    I feel joyful and triumphant and its not Christmas yet.

    THANK YOU RORI and SIRENS…



  165.  #165Rosa on November 30, 2010 at 1:01 am

    Hi Mary,

    “I think that – in my older age here – it’s important to just be in the moment with whatever is happening. I mean, why is the object to be happy? Happy is just one way to be. Other ways are so valuable, too. Other feelings are authentic and real and human and gritty and really there and full of life too. Aren’t they?”

    This so resonates with me!
    I have found the whole cancer and treatment such a potent exercise in mindfulness and feeling my feelings in the moment on the day . Funny how feeling the authentic exhausted feeling, or feeling sad feelings actually do increase the happy feeling underneath that. Its a kind of contented feeling overall.

    And a little burst of excited feeling here and there !



  166.  #166Senior Lady Vibe on November 30, 2010 at 5:21 am

    @164: Rosa says:

    “… He has included all his train connections from airport (he has been researching this a while!)…”

    Rosa, this is a BIG thing! He is making such an effort! Putting in the time and, since he is now a student, he has committed a percentage of his personal expense money to this project also.

    This is really something…

    I’m happy you are recovering so well. You are truly brave to undergo nine hours of surgery. I applaud you. All the best.

    SLV



  167.  #167Simply Shannon on November 30, 2010 at 6:40 am

    You have all waterwheeled me! Oh I feel so good reading these posts. Wow. I want to savor each one and comment on them but don’t want to be late for work. Thank you so much! I will be back later. Wow. Thank you!!!!



  168.  #168tinque on November 30, 2010 at 7:01 am

    Mary!!!! 🙂
    xxoo



  169.  #169tinque on November 30, 2010 at 7:03 am

    Luzydel – “I have a C-section mark”

    I have a hip bone to hip bone scar that runs under my belly button. I love my scar. When I flex my tummy muscles, the corners of my scar pull up into a smile.
    Even before I had it revised, K loved my scar too. It did not detract one iota his attraction for me.
    xxoo



  170.  #170Darling Ella on November 30, 2010 at 7:56 am

    @164 Rosa:

    Gosh, I feel tearful of happiness for you…I feel your joy within me…

    When you describe your “past” self, I raise my hand and wave “me, me, me too”…:) Yes, indeed leaning back works along with all the other tools 🙂 If my story turns around with my J man after what I’ve been through with him, gosh, Rori will deserve a statue from me 🙂

    Big warm hug 🙂 Can’t wait to hear more good news 🙂



  171.  #171Darling Ella on November 30, 2010 at 8:04 am

    Mercedes:

    Thank you for the lovely note and feedback to my post the other day. I felt scolded by my big sis…LOL for the doing the wrong thing, but in a good way…:)

    I totally agree about not playing games and not lying in a relationship…and it indeed is what I plan to do…:)

    I felt cared for by you, so thank you 🙂 Warm hugs,



  172.  #172Rori Raye on November 30, 2010 at 9:49 am

    Go Rosa!! Love, Rori



  173.  #173tinque on November 30, 2010 at 9:52 am

    Rosa – I haven’t said much to you since you have been so wonderfully and lovingly supported here, yet I want you to know I deeply admire your courage and strength, your heart and spirit through this life changing event.
    xxoo



  174.  #174Turtle Girl on November 30, 2010 at 9:59 am

    Well, sirens life IS and men ARE very interesting. Ha!

    Remeber I bit back when I posted on how my cd man had a meltdown and got super jealous and ripped me a new one and he was in my face so bad that I slapped him? Then he left and I told him to never come back if he could not sit and calmly have a discussion. That was over a month ago.

    I did not call, text, email, NOTHING. I had no contact at all. Talk about lean back…..lol

    Well last night I had a dream about him. This morning in my email box was this from him:

    “WTF?” in the subject line.

    “A day doesn’t go by without thought of you. Love is awkward thing-”

    Wow. He’ back………..and to tell you the truth ladies I am not sure I give a rip. He has anger issues. He still talks about his wife who cheated on him from eleven years go.

    Not sure at all how to respond, or to respond at all.

    Any ideas any one? xxoo



  175.  #175Turtle Girl on November 30, 2010 at 10:01 am

    #164
    great post Rosa. Many blessings to you!



  176.  #176Rori Raye on November 30, 2010 at 10:09 am

    Simply Shannon – re Bible study – I go to a Course in Miracles class every Sunday…I’m Jewish and CIM comes from a Christian background….and it melds it all well for me because it’s all about forgiveness and about the deeper layers of what it is to be alive and that love is all there is (you could say that God is all there is, if that metaphor works for you). I don’t like literalness of any kind, but I love metaphors. Here’s the first thing that strikes me (among so many aha’s): Where we are all stuck is in the erroneous belief that we would be safe if only we could control the unknown. All study that includes a concept of God or the Universe, or nature and the nature of existence helps you stop trying to control the unknown (or a man or a relationship). To give up trying to control it. And that’s where all of our histories and subconscious gets activated, and our minds get working to try to make sense of things and NOT give up control. The feminine is rooted in experience and emotion as a compass for life – to help you see where your mental beliefs are leading you – and to slowly peel those back and “Be Surprised.” So – The Rori Raye Mantra can be visualized in any way that works for you. I’d love to hear more from you about blending my work with the “softer” Christian ideas you’re now working with – it would help more Christian women find a connection with my work, and help me help them more. Just – this would help me – let’s stay away from “ideology” – meaning strict “interpretations” of anything, or any one biblical writer’s interpretations of anything. I’m all for re-interpreting everything, and coming up with metaphors and ways of seeing things that open you up, expand your heart, and make you feel good….I’m especially all for any interpretations that completely do AWAY with the concept of guilt – which means reinterpreting “the fall” and many other biblical events. Love, Rori



  177.  #177Mercedes on November 30, 2010 at 10:10 am

    Darling Ella: “I felt scolded by my big sis…LOL for the doing the wrong thing, but in a good way…:)”

    And that’s how I felt typing it but couldn’t find better words. lol. 🙂 I’m so so happy you were able to see/feel the caring in my words. No matter how many times I read them, they sounded (even to me) like I was bossy…but I know no other way so I hit submit and hoped you would react exactly the way you reacted. 🙂 Thank you for being able to hear me.

    Rosa: Big huge hug and a second to those words you received from tinque…

    Turtle Girl: I don’t know what to offer except maybe to reach into your heart and decide if you want to invite this man back in again. If you do a simple “thank you. that was a very sweet thing to say” (minus the WTF part…what’s up with that? LOL). If you don’t…I think I’d just ignore if I were you. Any response invites conversation…only you can decide if conversation is something you want.

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  178.  #178Rori Raye on November 30, 2010 at 10:13 am

    Senior Lady – I’m with you – but because I don’t have any direct affiliation with any doctrine – I’m free to make up whatever I want to believe or not believe…! ..so if we can all stick to re-interpreting – instead of “believing,” and acknowledge that there are a zillion possible interpretations of everything, and that there’s no way any of us can really know ANYTHING…then we’ll all end up in the same space of loving ourselves and each other no matter what. It’s sort of a moment in “The Good Wife” where the judge is all about everyone saying “in my opinion…” Everything is in our own opinion. Let’s see if we can do away with opinions and just feel our way through? Love, Rori



  179.  #179The Nikita Show on November 30, 2010 at 10:21 am

    Yay!

    I love ACIM 🙂

    I do I do !

    🙂

    I love when people quote it too!

    It took me a while because of the contrasting opinions I saw in the world about it but…..I love books and this is just a really awesome feeling book club 🙂

    but more. Yay!!



  180.  #180Meemee on November 30, 2010 at 10:24 am

    Rosa
    Blessings and Hugs
    Meemee



  181.  #181Turtle Girl on November 30, 2010 at 10:32 am

    Mercedes-
    Thank you for your advise/comment. And your right. It is totally up to how I feel whether or not to let this angry man back in.

    This stuff is often hard. Relationships are hard. We don’t-I don’t always know what or how I feel. I cared for him, we got along great, we had good sex, i enjoyed many things about him. But he has issues. But then don’t we all? How does one discern what things are acceptable or not? What level of toxic is ok or not? If it was a long list, then it’s a no brainer.
    But it wasn’t. He had many fine qualities and had he not had such a meltdown and acted like such an ass then I would not have told him to hit the road.

    I mean none of us is perfect are we? I have been in his place before. Angry and not knowing what to do with it, then blow. It’s a typical female response that RR talks about in how we aren’t honest etc. etc. and stuff our feelings and then blow all over the men.
    But I got over my stuff in the angry department. I have never been so calm in my life. it feels wonderful to not be angry at men.

    I methinks he is still angry at women and it doesn’t feel good to be on the receiving end of it. what a lesson all of this has been. Wow.

    But I still am stumped. I guess I need to really get clear on how I feel and whether to respond at all. Ugh. I hate this stuff sometimes. Without this site I would really be lost.



  182.  #182The Nikita Show on November 30, 2010 at 10:34 am

    Guilt feels bad.

    I noticed a feeling of guilt when it came to receiving money from my dad.

    That feel horrible when I get in tune with it.

    I had been skating over the feeling and only seeing my actions.

    If I can’t receive from my dad as an adult woman, who can I feel safe enough -guilt free enough to receive from? I don’t know-

    But the guilt is subtle…like a fear that by taking from him I am hurting him.

    That feels like a lack of respect. My dad is strong. He has good boundaries….so why am I not trusting him to give what he wants to offer?

    I feel weird. He has asked for my mailing address and I have PROCRASTINATED on it for MONTHS.

    Then I get into my feelings and it is guilt and fear. Yuck.

    He’s my dad!!!!!

    I was once a complete daddy’s girl and loved getting gifts.

    Then I became a woman. I shut down.

    If I can’t accept a flow of abundance from my dad (read: metaphor for the universe/everywhere) how can I be truly wealthy? I am blocking flow and it’s been right under my nose.

    I want to feel joyous accepting flow, and treasures from all of God’s Sons…ALL.

    I accept love and abundance from EVERY source starting NOW.

    I commit to opening my heart and purse 😉
    to EVERYONE. Because united we stand and divided is the “fall” 🙂

    yayy!

    Sirens have witnessed my money manifesto 🙂

    yayy!!!



  183.  #183Mercedes on November 30, 2010 at 10:35 am

    Rori: “CIM comes from a Christian background”

    I think just about every Christian and Catholic leader in the world would disagree with you here. Most believe it “sounds like” Christianity or is meant to make people believe it is based off of Christianity but…well…not so much. Lots and lots of Christian leaders have spoken out and written about ACIM and how anti-Christian it really is.

    “I’m especially all for any interpretations that completely do AWAY with the concept of guilt – which means reinterpreting “the fall” and many other biblical events. ”

    This statement of course does away with a lot of religions as well…especially Catholics. I understand what you are trying to say here, but a lot of us followers are Christians and Catholics and doing away with the concept of guilt and reinterpreting biblical events goes completely against what we hold dear in our hearts.

    “so if we can all stick to re-interpreting – instead of “believing,”

    – but many, many, many of us believe…really believe and asking us not to is totally out of the question…really…out of the question. It’s like asking us to interpret apples to be blue and purple.

    Anyway…no idea what I’m trying to get across here except that you touched a nerve on this one and as a Catholic, I feel a lot excluded and sort of “dismissed” because of my beliefs (and your comments weren’t even directed at me).

    I guess I’m trying to say if those of us who are Christians have listened to the ACIM talk over and over and over without saying anything against it but simply allowing those who follow ACIM to follow ACIM…well…then why when someone follows the bible and God instead is that person/people confronted about it and asked not to believe? That doesn’t make sense to me since this isn’t one of those religious sites where we already knew ACIM was the “religion” of choice.

    I know there is a lot of talk about God on this blog and I really have yet to see anyone offended by it. I wish I didn’t feel like we are being “silenced” unless we follow ACIM (I know you didn’t say this, but that’s how it feels)…because truly, your tools can be held in the hearts of any religion…and none of us would even have to reinterpret the bible to make it happen. I know for me, that’s been the case anyway. But following what you say above is totally against what many of us can or will do with our lives.

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  184.  #184Mercedes on November 30, 2010 at 10:39 am

    TG: “This stuff is often hard. Relationships are hard. We don’t-I don’t always know what or how I feel. I cared for him, we got along great, we had good sex, i enjoyed many things about him. But he has issues. But then don’t we all? How does one discern what things are acceptable or not? What level of toxic is ok or not?”

    This part is about boundaries…knowing and setting your boundaries help you decide what is too much. I wish I could help with this…the fact is it took me a long time and a lot of work on ME to fully understand what exactly crosses that line into too far where I’m concerned.

    Yes…it’s hard sometimes…really hard.

    But you have us… 🙂

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  185.  #185Mercedes on November 30, 2010 at 10:49 am

    GRRRRRR!!!!! I’m not done!! UGH!

    Just write it out Mercedes and let it go…

    Well…that didn’t happen.

    Guilt – a FEELING of responsibility for wrongdoing (according to webster).

    For someone who teaches women to embrace ALL feelings…to sink into them…even the bad ones…how can you advise us to “do away with the concept of guilt”? It exists…it’s important!! If nobody ever felt guilty for wrongdoing…can you imagine? When we hurt people…we feel guilty. I don’t know what ACIM teaches about this particular concept, but I believe (believe) God gave us the feeling of guilt for a reason…and I believe that’s one of those feelings that we need to have/embrace and go through. It’s critical. It helps us grow. It helps us set our own personal boundaries about how we treat others…it helps us love and receive and give in good ways.

    UGH!!!

    I hate this feeling!! (yeah…the one I’m not really in the mood to sink into…the feeling of being told to change and then not being heard after I say “that’s not possible for me”)



  186.  #186Rachel on November 30, 2010 at 11:20 am

    I agree that guilt is a useful feeling. When we do something that is morally or ethically wrong, our guilt is a gift to “red-flag” us to the fact that we are headed in a dangerous or harmful path. To say there should never be guilt implies that there is no reality of wrongdoing.

    Having grown up in a very strict home, I also know the fear and power of guilt wrongly used to motivate or control another person. This is the kind of guilt that wounds and cripples.

    A healthy sense of remorse for hurting another person or breaking a law (the Universe has laws!) usually brings healing and growth.

    I grew up in a strict, controlling Christian home. I now embrace a more moderate view of life/God/Universe, but I could never stop believing that certain things are simply wrong. I do however, believe strongly in the power of grace and love to bring about more change than any “hellfire and brimstone” preaching ever could. (And believe me … I heard PLENTY growing up … still healing!)

    Just my thoughts! Hugs!



  187.  #187tinque on November 30, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Mercedes – There’s so much here I don’t know where to begin.

    Guilt. It can be a destructive thing as Rachel alluded to. Many, many women, likely men too, are riddled with guilt, and it gets in the way; it cripples; it destroys a spirit.

    Remorse on the other hand (and maybe I’m just talking semantics here) feels better to me. When you have unknowingly hurt someone and it’s brought to your attention, someone like you and probably all of the women here would feel badly, remorseful. So you remedy the hurt as best as you can. Guilt will not serve. Guilt can keep you stuck.

    I don’t want to get into a religious discussion here at all, but I disagree that ACIM is acceptable here and speaking about god or Christianity or Catholicism or any other religion is not.

    All of it is allowed and embraced as long as someone doesn’t preach.

    For me most of it makes me feel a little uncomfortable, yet I can accept any and all beliefs.
    You are one of my best friends after all, and our beliefs though very different, at core are much the same.
    xxoo



  188.  #188Mercedes on November 30, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    Tinque: Thank you. Rori telling us to re-interpret biblical stories rather than believe is not an acceptance of Christian or Catholic beliefs. Anyone else saying it might not sound as bad…Rori saying it feels more like a “how to” on this blog and a total lack of acceptance (by the blog owner) of those beliefs.

    And maybe I interpreted it wrong, but these are basic beliefs many of us hold in our hearts and telling us not to believe but to instead re-interpret is too much for me.

    As far as guilt…I believe that’s the only way we come to feel remorse…or at least that the two feelings go hand in hand. Guilt does serve us and I like you don’t want to get into a religious discussion but my true belief, in my heart and as a Catholic (and a former religious education teacher which probably makes me more passionate about this topic than most) is that guilt is very, very important.

    Yes…we need the strength to lose that guilt after forgiveness…same with remorse…we can’t go through life feeling sorry for things we did in the past, we need to get past those things…but it does, in my heart of hearts, serve a HUGE purpose.

    And I also believe that if there really was no reason for a particular feeling (because I believe in God and how that works) I believe we wouldn’t have the emotion…it wouldn’t exist…if it didn’t serve a purpose He wouldn’t have given us the feeling.

    I also can accept any and all beliefs (which is why, as I said, I can listen to the ACIM talk all the time and this is the first time I’ve spoken out about it and only now because Rori compared it to Christianity which was an incorrect assumption and I wanted to clear it up) but…I’ve never heard a Christian here tell a ACIM follower to re-interpret what they believe. It struck a cord…that’s all…it is soooo triggering to tell people what to believe or not to believe when it comes to religion.

    I appreciate you and our different beliefs. Same with J and I (we have almost nothing in common where religion is concerned)…we appreciate each other and we respect each other. It was different with how I read Rori’s words…it may very well be my interpretation and not her meaning at all, but the words ““so if we can all stick to re-interpreting – instead of “believing,” seemed like a dismissal of my own personal belief system and like I said, coming from her, it sounds like a directive.

    Anyway…I’m better now. I understand that not everyone feels or will feel as I do about this and that’s okay…mostly I think I just wanted to bring to her attention that it feels very dismissive to make assumptions about another religion and to ask someone to change what they believe and to discount their own church’s biblical teachings and instead “re-interpret” what they already know. Just seemed very, very wrong to me.

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  189.  #189Mercedes on November 30, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Oops…there was one more thing I wanted to say. When you said:

    “Guilt. It can be a destructive thing as Rachel alluded to. Many, many women, likely men too, are riddled with guilt, and it gets in the way; it cripples; it destroys a spirit. ”

    I totally agree. But you can apply that to every single negative emotion…fear…anger…jealousy…grief..etc. and yet, all of those emotions have a place and a purpose. This is why Rori doesn’t tell us to stuff down those negative emotions…she teaches us to sink into them…so we can heal them, learn the lessons and grow from them. We need them…all of them and we need to learn to not get bogged down by them but to instead, process through them because after all…that process is so much of what makes us who we are today.

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  190.  #190tinque on November 30, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    I hear you and feel you passion, yet I didn’t read Rori’s words in the same way. I got that she was saying to interpret is fine, wonderful even, but I don’t hear her saying you or anyone else “must” do this.
    I hear her saying whatever you believe is wonderful, and to interpret scripture if that’s what you want to do is just as wonderful or ACIM or any other sacred text.
    You know I know her personally, and she is not one to give directive directly, not ever. She’s all about finding YOUR way and what feels the best to you. Suggestions? Yes she’s all about that.
    xxoo



  191.  #191tinque on November 30, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    And I agree with you on the rest, but it seems to me, and I may be wrong here, guilt is one of those insidious feelings that many people can get bogged down with. It stems from fear.
    I do agree that one must feel them all but also learn to let them go, as in any other potentially destructive emotion.
    xxoo



  192.  #192Rachel on November 30, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    Rori or Tinque,

    When you know you’ve done something wrong (and let’s say it was even on purpose like saying something nasty but at the moment you were mad and didn’t care) and later that day, you feel lousy and it keeps bugging you and you know you need to make it right, what do you call that? Just curious!



  193.  #193tinque on November 30, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    Rachel – I call it remorse or regret. For me guilt is such a loaded word, and as a writer, the subtleties of expression are everything. But this could very well simply be my interpretation.
    xxoo



  194.  #194Rosa on November 30, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    “The Rori Raye Mantra can be visualized in any way that works for you. ”

    Thank you Rori. I feel irritated by some comments. I feel angry when the right to hold beliefs and to NOT HOLD them are disrespected. The differences could be explained by Clare Graves Spiral Dynamics. This is a long and complex theory but the guts of my comment is that our bloggers are at all different “colours” in that system. Some are “by the book” Sirens who have strong organizational group based “rule books” in their lives , some are more corporate-consumerist, some are Green through and through and some with no external reference book , are flexible and adaptable thinkers from an individual perspective.
    We all go through these ‘colours” as indivudual people over time and not in any particular order ,in the same way that whole nations do. It is a great theory.
    Ken Wilbur does something similar.

    I feel excited when I see people being people in all their multi coloured gorgeousness. I am feeling hopeful that Sirens will colour their feelings like rainbows!



  195.  #195sia on November 30, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    Mercedes, I did’t know you are Catholic!!!
    I feel so happy to meet a catholic like you. I do know many of them ,and they are a righteous bunch. I just know one woman who doesn’t preach at every occassion..

    I did’t feel safe to talk about this on the blog so far, but I think I am going to be a believer one day. I don’t want to be associated with some sides of faith.

    I love science. Clinical trials have been conducted which failed to find support for a notion that prayer works for sick people. I get annoyed when I am shut up by a Christian who gives me anecdotes about healing. People I discussed with did not know that there are even people genetically resistant to HIV virus, and what is more, did not want to know and were not curious at all, they wanted to repeat their individual ‘miraculous’ experiences ad and they insisted I take it.

    So my experience with Christians is not good..but I feel I may end up as one one day.It feels like going mad and still be aware of it. I don’t want to be a part of community with a belief we have in common where I have to hide my opinions about homosexuality and healing nonpower of prayer. I would feel so lonely there!

    I felt relieved when I read the same thing happened to C. S. Lewis. And some other people. But I feel so alone and scared..Christians I know have been raised like that, they don’t understand how I feel. This feels like voluntarily stepping on a trap door..

    How did it happen for you?

    About guilt, remorse, etc. – I like Heidegger’s definition saying conscience is inside us, yet feels like being from without too.. I definitely don’t feel good about putting one first at all times. When i feel bad about it due to conscience, then it is not the right thing for me to do at the moment, so maybe I am putting myself first – in order to be in line with my conscience – by not doing exactly what I feel like doing at the moment.

    I think guilt is a nasty voice, which screams and berates, and not behind every action which brings on guilt there is the clear and calm voice of conscience.



  196.  #196Simply Shannon on November 30, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Oh wow! So much discussion! Even though I want to respond, I’m choosing to prepare for my bible study right now. I’m the leader/facilitator so I want to have some points to discuss. How to explain feeling messages 101. 🙂

    Thank you Rori for replying to me personally! This is my purpose. I feel it with my whole body. Amazing that you asked for help in that area because that is literally what I feel called to do. Yeah!

    Okay, I’ll be back at some point this evening.



  197.  #197LonePlum on November 30, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    192: Rachel

    ***If it is an intellectual judgment of yourself linked with a need to control, it is guilt.

    You’ll probably end up not being able to look at your friend in the eyes, the relationship will degrade.

    In some cases, we feel guilty and yet we keep doing the same mistake.
    We intellectually know it is wrong and we see ourselves doing it, we feel guilty and keep doing it.

    In other cases guilt stops us from doing the same mistake by locking us inside ourselves. We are stucked.
    Just like guilty persons are legally locked in jails.

    Guilt keep the door closed to forgiveness.

    Guilt is an intellectual activity and a legal concept.

    ***If it is a heart feeling, it is remorse and it will lead to real change.

    You accept the humanity in your wrong doing.
    You feel it is not your fault as an individual, it is just the way human do wrong at times, and you are human.

    You feel bad, but you accept yourself as a non perfect person, and you don’t want to do that particular mistake again.

    You will look at your friend and frankly apologize for your mean words. And sincerely work at not bursting again.

    Once you know you won’t do it again and you have been forgiven, remorse leaves your heart.

    Remorse stops us from doing the same mistake by liberating us from the need to do it.

    Remorse leaves the door open to forgiveness.

    Remorse is a feeling
    Remorse is not a legal concept.

    xxx



  198.  #198Brenda on November 30, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Hello!

    Sounds like some very interesting discussion!

    I have an hour left at work then I give up the laptop. Hopefully I’ll be back online within a day.

    Bill just said goodbye to me…with a handshake…

    I feel disappointed. I don’t get the impression he intends to stay in touch with me. Do you lean back with gay men who are friends, or who you hope will remain your friend?



  199.  #199Rosa on November 30, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    Oh and Siren Island has been lovely and supportive to me again (SLV , Meemee, Rori , Turtle Girl and darling Ella ), and I feel awash with warm currents of good feelings , as i always did love tropical islands.
    Perhaps the little fish are gently nibbling our toes this morning (or evening)?

    G- Man knows that one of the major issues we have always had is SEX . Amazing great sex and my inability , in his words “to separate love from sex ” and his inability , in MY words ” to separate sex from friendship”.

    This also from the man who often has held me close and told me he loves me BUT is not in love with me. Huh?

    ” Any love is good love , so i took what i could get …
    B.b.b.baby You Aint Seen Nothing Yet.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7miRCLeFSJo

    But I digress…
    Well he knows that I stay away from him largely because of this issue and he has made a clear request for a separate bed as he is “still in a relationship” . Hello? This has NEVER happened. In fact he was sleeping with me and others before I got over my depression and said NO MORE with me.

    His comment immediately made my No Sex position easier to hold. I had worried about giving in to him because we have always been highly flammable. I know he will be hoping it will happen but is trying to do the right thing by everyone.

    It wont happen Sirens.
    Not without commitment at this late hour.

    I feel very relieved that he wants his own bed.

    I feel, finally , at long last, respected when he wants his own bed.

    I feel angry and rejected that he wants his own bed.

    I feel ugly and criss cross angry red -scarred and mutilated when he wants his own bed.

    I feel so sad at what is lost when he wants his own bed.

    I feel un-sexed , written off, old and yukky and unwanted when he wants his own bed.

    I feel tears welling that he wants his own bed.

    And now I have written all these feelings to wonderful Sirens who are listening and holding me in their hugs , I feel better. I have felt and expressed and owned all these feelings.

    And I know I wont lash out at him now blaming him about rejecting me, nor will I sabotage my inner Goddess by trying to ensnare him.

    I am feeling small and growing confidence seeds taking root at long, long last in the barren soil of my post divorce desolation (8 years now).

    And You Aint Seen Nothing Yet 🙂 !!!!!!!



  200.  #200Rosa on November 30, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Come back soon Brenda, and good luck !!

    I lost my long post in moderation. I may try to repost now.

    I feel frustrated!



  201.  #201Brenda on November 30, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    Rosa,

    I hate when that happens!!!!!!!!!

    I owe Shannon a rewritten post from last night!



  202.  #202Brenda on November 30, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    I feel much better now…I leaned forward a bit and emailed Bill before he left for the day, saying I hope he’s not ending the friendship.

    He emailed back 3 times then starting IMing me, saying no, not at all, and we can go out for lunch. He was very warm, and I feel so happy about my friendship with him!



  203.  #203Rosa on November 30, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Beautifully considered and written Lone Plum!
    Brava!



  204.  #204Rachel on November 30, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    Thank you LonePlum. Over time, I’ve learned the difference, but have never heard it described so clearly. Your words and thoughts are beautiful and I feel touched that you took the time to write them for me. Hugs!



  205.  #205Lucy on November 30, 2010 at 4:32 pm

    Anybody ever do this before? I gave a bunch of guys my number last night on pof — I was in an unusually generous mood — and now I can’t figure out who this guy is who’s texting me! lol. For the time being, I’m just playing along. But he’s really excited. My profile says something about a guy who can sincerely sing me Steve Azar’s song “Sunshine” winning big points in my book, so….

    He’s all, “Hi Sunshine! Give me some time and I’ll play and sing this for you. Not as good as Steve A., but I’ll try. I do play guitar a little, but mostly the piano/keyboard. I’m gonna learn that song for you and we’ll see how I do romancing you! 🙂 From ___, your new pof friend.”

    I only responded: 🙂 okay

    So he writes: K!…. this has me smilin’!… It’s been kind of a long time since I “wooed to romance”! but I want to do it for you. I know not why.. but maybe just for the belief in the possibilities of what we might now possess. A true “run in” on our course in life, that brings two together, and finally finding their purpose and security to carry them onward together.

    ………………

    I feel amused and a little scared. It feels waaaay over the top to me. What do you all think? Lol.



  206.  #206Lucy on November 30, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    Daria Daria Daria

    What is that song you posted recently that you said was your favorite song? Something about a one night stand…? Thx.



  207.  #207Lucy on November 30, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    Oh never mind I found it. 🙂



  208.  #208Lucy on November 30, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    Mercedes, I think the guilt thing is just a matter of semantics. Some people feel uncomfortable with that particular word bc they have such negative associations with it. Guilt is useful and helpful — and honors the path of love — when processed in a healthy way — just like fear or anger.

    <3
    Lucy



  209.  #209Daria on November 30, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    Lucy – it’s J Boog let’s do it again

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZQr0jdUJ5A



  210.  #210Turtle Girl on November 30, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    definitions:

    remorse:Remorse is an emotional expression of personal regret felt by a person after he or she has committed an act which they deem to be shameful, hurtful, or violent. Remorse is closely allied to guilt and self-directed resentment. …

    Guilt:In criminal law, guilt is entirely externally defined by the state, or more generally a “court of law.” Being “guilty” of a criminal offense means that one has committed a violation of criminal law, or performed all the elements of the offense set out by a criminal statute. …
    Guilt is a cognitive or an emotional experience that occurs when a person realizes or believes–accurately or not–that they have violated a moral standard, and bear sole responsibility for that violation. It is closely related to the concept of remorse.

    However can one have guilt without remorse? Absolutely. As in found guilty in a court of law.
    And one can have remorse without guilt as well.

    Each situation is different, many subtle colors and variations of this one I think. ;o)



  211.  #211Turtle Girl on November 30, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    Mercedes-

    Boundaries! Yes you hit the nail on the head girl. Did he cross one of my boundaries when he blew up and had a total meltdown and said ugly things to me?

    Yes.

    Cuz it was really disrespectful and ugly what he said. So now after he did that kind of thing about 4 times, it is a pattern and I do not trust that he would not do it again if I let him back in. He has not healed his wound and is lashing out at me and making things my fault, when I am just trying to get my happily ever after while on my horse riding away.

    So yes, he violated one of my boundaries. I will not be disrespected and called names. I will not be accused of something I did not do. I will not have things early in the relationship brought up and thrown in my face that were once ok and now are not. He holds it all in, pretends things are fine and then blows-just like a girl. I really don’t want a girl. I want a man, a calm, respectful, masculine man who treats me like a queen. That’s what I want. Not this guy.

    I have not responded to the email.



  212.  #212Daria on November 30, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    wtf

    i feel so angry when people post stuff that opresses others



  213.  #213Daria on November 30, 2010 at 5:55 pm

    i feel powerless and absolutely infuriated

    I HATE!!! HATE HATE HATE!!!

    that people blind themselves to knowing spirit directly

    i HATE that people tell other people that their belifs are right

    or wrong

    ugh!!!

    I HATE that !

    so much

    God you know how much i hate it

    and on top of that

    holy books are holy

    nobody said, each word is meant the way X said

    sometimes i read and the OMISSIONS are what speaks to me

    the magic comes through and soemtimes

    the EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT seems to be written is what comes through

    that is how holy books work

    FRRGGGHFR



  214.  #214Simply Shannon on November 30, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    My bible study group went great! I feel hungry right now and don’t want to stay on the computer too long but wanted to share one short epiphany.

    The story of Mary and Martha (specifically John 11:17-37 if you want to read it) describes how Martha went out to J*sus (pursued him) and told him “…if you had been here, my brother would not have died.” (Can you hear in your head how that went? Pretty much nagging Him – ala if you had done XYZ, I wouldn’t feel so bad.) Not well received. Then later J*sus asks Mary to come to him (pursuing her) and first “she fell at her feet” (showing her emotions FIRST), then said pretty much the same thing as Martha with a totally different reaction. He wept with her! He was moved by her emotions which she showed FIRST.

    There are FEELINGS in the bible. The pursuit stuff that Rori teaches, etc…. it’s all in there!! I had some verses prepared but never imagined it would go this way. When I read it for the group, all this stuff came out!

    P.S. Daria, I completely agree with you that a lot of the stuff that hits me most is in the omissions, the things not said. Everything is about how we interpret words and apply them to ourselves. My own relationship with God is personal. No one gets to tell me how that relationship should be. I feel you!! Thank you for sharing!

    Okay must go eat. Starving. I hope I haven’t crossed a huge boundary by quoting the bible. I just loved how all of it was right there in just a few verses!



  215.  #215Renee on November 30, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    Mercedes — I agree with you 100%. I felt my Christian beliefs were dismissed by Rori’s comment as well.



  216.  #216Daria on November 30, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    “The Buddha insisted strongly on the necessity of examining the propositions put forward by Him, and
    of understanding them personally before accepting them as true. The ancient texts leave no doubt on this point:

    “Do not believe on the strength of traditions even if they have been held in honour for many
    generations and in many places; do not believe anything because many people speak of it; do not believeon the strength of sages of old times; do not believe that which you have yourselves imagined, thinking
    that a god has inspired you. Believe nothing which depends only on the authority of your masters or of
    priests. After investigation, believe that which you have yourselves tested and found reasonable, and
    which is for your good and that of others.”

    “Doubt is an incitement to research, and research is the path to true knowledge.”

    “Why are these teachings secret? Does that mean I can’t write and tell about them?” “No, Alexandra,
    these teachings are not called ‘secret’ because it is forbidden to talk about them. They are ‘secret’ becauseso few who hear them understand.””



  217.  #217Daria on November 30, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    Rock on Shannon! Thank you for sharing that!

    I love the Bible!



  218.  #218Daria on November 30, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    all is INTERPRETED AND REINTERPRETED

    whether you CONSCIOUSLY choose… or not…

    whethere you believe what grandma or the priest told you… or what it says in the book

    that is the believing of SOMEONE ELSE’s interpretations

    feel free to make your own!

    becuase you are anyway!

    so interpret it up a way that feels good!



  219.  #219Daria on November 30, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the
    world being round that agitated people but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic. – Dresden James



  220.  #220Daria on November 30, 2010 at 7:14 pm

    Christ – JES*US a man/spirit

    any religion with CHRIST JE*SUS as focal personage

    CHRISTIAN

    NOT – because so an so and so and so organization says… “this” is CHRISTIAN

    but because of focus on

    Christ Jes*us

    hence CHRISTian



  221.  #221Daria on November 30, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    “Remember the bumper sticker, ‘QUESTION AUTHORITY’.

    Everyone said it yet no one did anything
    about it. I did; I recognized it. I had known from a very young age that I, and none other, was my own andonly authority. It seems I simply spent my life evidencing it. I never, ever, listened to anyone outside myself.
    The problem was that I also never listened to me. It took me decades to learn to trust my intuition. The most important thing we will ever learn is who we are and this will require that we change our minds about who we think we are. This will require that we throw out everything we think we know and replace it with what we have intuitively always known. We must listen only to what our intuition intends for us.”

    Mary Croft



  222.  #222Daria on November 30, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    A psychologist once told me, “Don’t ever do anything for any male over the age of 10 unless you are specifically asked.”

    ~ Mary Croft

    John Taylor Gatto wrote, ” Children
    allowed to take responsibility and given a serious part in the larger world are always superior to those
    merely permitted to play and be passive. At the age of twelve, Admiral Farragut got his first command. I
    was in fifth grade when I learned of this. Had Farragut gone to my school he would have been in seventh.”



  223.  #223Daria on November 30, 2010 at 7:35 pm

    I don’t know about “superior” as I don’t believe it this term anymore…

    Gatto is a man though 😉



  224.  #224Daria on November 30, 2010 at 7:38 pm

    Kids ought to be out doing what they want by age 12 and we ought to beavailable ONLY for counsel. I told my boys that in my books, age 13 is the age of majority.

    – more Mary Croft

    these past few days, I’ve been reading about children… hehe

    I now want to homeschool… so glad to find this signs and info in diff places… synchronistically



  225.  #225Daria on November 30, 2010 at 7:46 pm

    I read that J. P. Morgan had said, “I don’t want a lawyer to tell me what I cannot do; I hire an attorney to tell me How To Do what I want to do.” So I told my boys, “I understand that you don’t want me to tell you what you can’t do; you hired me to tell you HOW TO DO what you want to do.”



  226.  #226Daria on November 30, 2010 at 7:47 pm

    can’t take Everything i read from a source… cuz they suffer their own beliefs issues.. .just take what inspires me



  227.  #227Daria on November 30, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    “As a teenager, I worked for both corporations and smaller, privately-owned companies. Never conscious of it until much later, I noticed that while working for a small firm or real living souls, I would faithfully put 10¢ into the jar for coffee when doing so was based upon the ‘honour system’. The goods belonging to theprivately-owned company were not mine until I compensated them in some way. Much later I realized that when I had worked for corporations, I would rob them to the extent of my ability. I think intuitively I knewthat anything a corporation ostensibly ‘owned’ was already mine, because I had pre-paid everything (more on this later). For awhile I put it down to anonymity, but it wasn’t that; it was the fact that I knew it was mine… and I was accurate. Again, my intuition was correctly guiding me and this is why I never felt any guilt.”

    I LOOVE!! what my intuition finds for me to read… I am healing my life WOO HOO!!



  228.  #228Daria on November 30, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    I AM so ! scared my parents are not going to be able to take care of themseleves later and I dont yet know HOW!

    well i do

    wait

    yes i do know how

    but they wont trust me will they

    my methods might not feel secure to them

    i want healing and to feel safe about this!

    thanks to the parts of me that Do feel safe and feel Powerful

    i am asking them to come and encourage me!

    thank u



  229.  #229Darling Ella on November 30, 2010 at 8:54 pm

    Prayer to Past Lovers

    “Dear God,
    I pray for the loves of my past,
    those who chose me and those who did not.

    I pray for their happiness,
    their growth and their good.
    May their hearts be filled with light
    and their desires fully satisfied.

    May they find what they are seeking,
    although it could not be me.
    Amen” by Marianne Williamson

    Book titled “Enchanted Love”….

    I feel always inspired by Marianne’s beautiful writings…Making peace with our past, forgiving ourselves and believing in our fellow man innocence, will set us free and open to countless possibilities for love, forgiveness and acceptance…I believe!!!!

    Hugs,



  230.  #230Daria on November 30, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    I feel upset! ugh

    drama at the house

    i feel heavy sad AFRAID and angry…

    i went down, to eat

    and my dad said something attacky to me

    and i left

    i didnt eat

    then him and my mom argued

    mph

    i feel good that i left, FAST

    i am hungry now

    feeling sad

    want to live somewhere i feel safe encouraged and loved

    mom seems to have more boundaries

    but more babysteps to go



  231.  #231Isis on November 30, 2010 at 11:06 pm

    **Daria: I feel familiarity in your experiences with your parents, arguing, wondering if they will be able to take care of themselves, etc. My situations aren’t exactly the same in detail, but I have felt those things.

    Also, John Taylor Gatto is quite the expert on children and learning. I was homeschooled, and then unschooled. From about the age of 8th grade I did what I wanted, largely involving reading everything I could possibly carry in two arms and a backpack from the library.. as well as traveling, babysitting, helping at a deaf school, and other things.

    I am all for interest-led learning. The internet is full of information but if you would like something to read to introduce you, try anything on education by Grace Llewellyn. “The Teenage Liberation Handbook”, I think you might like. Also she has a couple of books telling the stories of some kids who were unschooled. My friends and I were the first of these, at least as is currently going on now. I am sure all over the world, people have experienced self-directed learning, and learned about the world around them as related to themselves and their lives.

    **Darling Ella:
    I love Marianne Williamson. Return to Love and Enchanted Love are two of my favorites.

    All my life I have struggled with boundaries. I have always wanted to give, give, give. With many things I have experimented subconsciously with the extremes of things, in order to find the perfect balance of both. With relationships, I have struggled with the finding the balance of giving unconditionally and conditionally. But I suppose that is also love – to not give – at times when it is appropriate to not give – or to lean back because it allows the greatest possible expression and growth from the other person.
    Boundaries and commitments have never been easy for me…..I don’t quite have any definitive thoughts to share on this subject at the moment, just thinking out loud.

    Just wanted to share our mutual love of M.W. …



  232.  #232Daria on November 30, 2010 at 11:06 pm

    I ate.. gave thanks for the food and felt BETTER! yay and loving

    and went downstairs and watched tv with the fam

    now feeling better



  233.  #233Isis on November 30, 2010 at 11:08 pm

    Does anyone have any input for my question about CDing? (#75) How to live with someone and circular date?



  234.  #234Isis on November 30, 2010 at 11:09 pm

    (yayyy! I feel excited that I can now post without having to wait for moderation!!)



  235.  #235Leo on November 30, 2010 at 11:23 pm

    Hi Iris!

    Not so easy…
    I would, in any case, be open to my boyfriend. So if you feel like CDing, tell him that you don’t feel happy with what you have, and that you want to keep looking for somone else BUT that you stay sexually exclusive with him.

    Something like this…

    I think its our choice if you right away tell your CD-guys what you are looking for as long as you know for youself.
    There are so many possibilities to go on a date, i mean, it doesnt need to be at your and your boyfriends home.

    For me, who I am in a relationship and pretty happy (and getting happier everyday now), means CDing that I dont particularly go on “real” dates. I just use every single situation in everyday life to do so.



  236.  #236Daria on November 30, 2010 at 11:29 pm

    Isis – thank you for the suggestions!

    well…

    WHY do you live with this guy? it sounds like you might want to take babysteps to living somewhere separate… (living together is basically like being in the girlfriend trap) – but Rori, before being proposed… did say that she started treating him more like a friend

    a lot of women who live at home with a man don’t actually go on dates… they just flirt and smile

    this is because they feel guilty, are kinda indoctrinated into being loyal to a man – even tho he’s not being loyal to them or giving them the commitment they want

    ***

    you sound like you WANT to date! so bravo

    you don’t Have to tell new date men anything… but

    you will find that MOST men will not stop seeing you no matter WHAT you tell them – as long as you are authentic and loving yourself

    while you are still feeling anxiety about it, that “vibe” may come through… but babysteps will eventually ease it for you and then the question will not even come up

    I always have men meet me around the corner form my house anyway… they never really ask

    I do it for safety since I don’t want men I don’t know well to know where exactly I live



  237.  #237Daria on November 30, 2010 at 11:31 pm

    I feel wowed that you are here and you were unschooled, and here I am learning about this just now… and TADAH… a Goddess with the experience of it!



  238.  #238Mercedes on December 1, 2010 at 5:20 am

    Tinque: “I hear her saying whatever you believe is wonderful, and to interpret scripture if that’s what you want to do is just as wonderful or ACIM or any other sacred text.”

    That’s not what I heard, but I hear you and I believe you. A nerve was touched and I needed to let it out so I did. I do understand that what I was hearing was most likely my own stuff, but when it comes to religious beliefs, I have strong opinions about telling others what to believe or what to do (my step mother tried to force me to change my religion when I was in high school and it was terrible!). But I understand what Rori was trying to say…just that the way it was said (or the way I read it) struck a cord and rather than pretend it didn’t, I vented. You know me personally too and I’d venture to say you would expect nothing less. 😉 Thank you for being my friend!

    Sia: Catholics like all people come in all different sizes, shapes, ethnic backgrounds and personalities. It’s funny, I had a friend tell me one time “Catholics assume everyone else is already Catholic. Everyone else assumes nobody is Catholic unless they specifically say it.” LOL I don’t preach and I hate getting involved in online conversations about religion (or bar conversations about religion) but sometimes, I just have to speak out. 🙂 Thank you for appreciating the Catholic in me. 🙂

    Lucy: “Some people feel uncomfortable with that particular word bc they have such negative associations with it. Guilt is useful and helpful — and honors the path of love — when processed in a healthy way — just like fear or anger.”

    I totally agree!

    Daria: “i feel so angry when people post stuff that opresses others”

    I’m not sure I know who you’re talking about here. Rori? That’s how I felt…and I hate it too which is why I felt compelled to vent.

    Renee: “Mercedes — I agree with you 100%. I felt my Christian beliefs were dismissed by Rori’s comment as well.”

    Thank you for having the courage to share that. Sometimes things like that hurt or feel mean and I love to see a woman with the strength to say how she felt even when it might not be what others want to hear. You are beautiful! 🙂

    Shannon: I’m very happy your study group went well…you sound so happy!

    And I think that’s everyone who veered off topic with me. lol Thank you ladies so much for sharing your thoughts and feelings on this topic. I appreciate you all.

    I’m in meetings with my executive management team most of the morning but I’ll try to check in later today. If nothing else, you can all know I’m thinking of you.

    And one more…actually on topic which is much appreciated…

    Turtle Girl: “I have not responded to the email.”

    Smile and big hug! I love it when women recognize their boundaries and hold tight to them. You sound so strong!

    Much Love,
    Mercedes



  239.  #239akaydia on December 1, 2010 at 5:39 am

    Currently, I’m struggling with this one relationships that I have. I’m going to call him Mathew for now. I guess the biggest problem is that Mathew is an imaginary relationship.

    I am currently circle dating, and I have dated a couple of other people while I’ve been with Mathew. I usually don’t go out and dates lots of people because I get pretty nervous about going out and meeting new people. I am currently going out with a guy named Tim but I don’t really enjoy his company because he is so boring. When I first met him he was a jerk who cursed and called all of his previous girlfriends bitches. I told him that I felt uncomfortable when he did that and he never did it again. I do feel like he is someone that I couldn’t really trust with my heart- but I am currently using him as practice until i get the courage to go out with someone else. I’m currently afraid of telling him that i feel board when I listen to him because I feel like I’m being mean.

    However, I keep going back to Mathew. Mathew is currently in a bad place. He failed to graduate with a good GPA, he failed to get into medical college and then failed to get into graduate school. He thinks its because he can’t seem to motivate himself to do anything. I think that he doesn’t want to be a doctor (which is ok- I wouldn’t want to be a doctor either).

    We seem to be stuck in this cycle. We make out. Then he freaks out because he is scared that he is leading me on and starts to shut me out of his life. I react to this by freaking out that he is shutting me out and I start to get needy. When I get needy, he says that he feels inadequate and pushes me away even more. Then he feels even more guilty because he rejected me. Then he tells me that he just wants to be friends and not make out or anything. We haven’t had sex yet because he believes that people should only have sex, when they know that they are going to get married. A month later, we make out again and it starts all over again. This has been going on for 4 years (except for 1/2 we toke a break I dated and shared a sublet with another man we I developed a long distance relationship with- we broke up mostly because he didn’t like the fact that I wasn’t supper skinny).

    The fact that I date other men doesn’t seem to bother him. Though, recently he says that he feels inadequate that I have to date another guy in addition to him to get my needs met. I was also planning on having my first time having sex with him, but after waiting over 3 years for him, I got frustrated and lost it to someone else (it turned out that I didn’t like having sex because it was painful everytime- I’ve went to two doctors about it and they just brushed it off and said that nothing was wrong). Mathew told me that he is upset that I lost my virginity because now he feels alone because he is the only person he knows that hasn’t lost it yet. I sometimes wonder if he is gay or asexual- but it seems like he is just very conservative about sex and doesn’t believe in sex before marriage. I think that he just has a low sex drive of about once per month. My sex drive on the other hand is about once per day.

    I know that this is an imaginary relationship. I try to lean back, but I’m afraid that he will never lean forward. I try waiting and waiting, but then I just pop and get frustrated and I go over and see him. I think about him constantly so its difficult to sit back and wait. He never called me when I was having my long distance relationship. He did come over to visit me once though. I just can’t seem to be able to let him go.



  240.  #240akaydia on December 1, 2010 at 5:53 am

    Oh, I have gotten better about using feeling messages though. It has really decreased the amount of drama in our relationship. I think that of all the opportunity there was to use feeling message I used about 90%. I did a few judgemental things- but its less than usually. I used feeling messages such as “I feel happy when you said that”, or” I feel sad, I’m scared that you will…”.



  241.  #241akaydia on December 1, 2010 at 5:54 am

    When I’m unhappy and I use feeling messages, I also tend to curl up in a ball and he comes over and hugs me. Is curling up into a ball when I’m unhappy ok? Or should I stay open?



  242.  #242Dorothea on December 1, 2010 at 6:25 am

    Hey all, I noticed a few requests for more information about what I’ve been eating these days. I am studying for the exam of my life but I will post it up in the next couple of weeks. I would feel so happy to share all this information and help however I can. Changing my diet and reaping the aesthetic benefits has brought me a lot of joy:)



  243.  #243Sweetpea on December 1, 2010 at 6:26 am

    Rori,

    I’ve been listening to Commitment Blueprint and how you’re not supposed to advise your man. Does this mean not at all, ever? Because I am a paralegal & my guy’s having trouble collecting on a job. I’ve been staying quiet, but I want to tell him his rights & give him some direction on collecting on this. But things are going really well between us right now after a little bit of rockiness & I don’t want to risk upsetting that. Any suggestions or comments?



  244.  #244Dorothea on December 1, 2010 at 6:28 am

    ugggghhh sweetpea, that is a great question. i would love to know the answer.



  245.  #245Darling Ella on December 1, 2010 at 6:33 am

    Isis #229:

    Wow…I feel happy and understood 🙂 Awesome 🙂

    To me Marianne is my therapist and Rori is my personal coach 🙂

    As a Christian woman, Marianne got me grounded in to what is important to understand and experience…God’s love…and kept me away from the icky feeling I would experience when I was presented with doctrines full of fear, guilt and extremist views…

    Learning Rori’s tools and using them finally I feel like I am getting free to experience the world as I was meant to be…I know understand that my feelings are to be used for a greater purpose…:)

    By the way, in the Commitment Blueprint, I was very touched by the presentation of the Queen Ester (from the Bible) story…I forgot the lady’s name who made the presentation, but Gosh she touched me sooo deeply…I read the Ester story before, but the now I read it in such a new lite 🙂 Thank you Rori 🙂

    Warm Hugs,



  246.  #246Darling Ella on December 1, 2010 at 6:42 am

    ~You are an idea in the Mind of God. You can never leave your Source. Your mistakes have not changed the essential truth of who you are. You are loved beyond all description.~Marianne Williamson

    Gosh, she just posted this on FB this morning 🙂



  247.  #247Simply Shannon on December 1, 2010 at 7:08 am

    Oh Darling Ella, would you mind sharing the Queen Esther story here? I mean, the gist of the presentation? That was one of the chapters I was going to read tonight. I’ve read it before but never with “Rori” eyes. 😉 I don’t have Commitment Blueprint program. I’m on a mission to find all of the women stories in the bible and apply Rori rules to them! Yeah! This feels so good! I’d love to hear about the presentation if you have time and inclination to share. Thank you!



  248.  #248Simply Shannon on December 1, 2010 at 7:15 am

    I will be back this evening. My paying job is getting in the way of my purpose. Boo.

    Oh I did want to share one thing about guilt.

    It seems to me that guilt is a past emotion. It’s looking at what I’ve already done and applying a bad feeling to it. And that feels wrong to me somehow. I made a choice to do XYZ. Now I know about a consequence to XYZ which feels bad NOW (present tense). I call it guilt but really it’s just feeling bad right now about a choice a made that felt good at the time. I don’t know. In that way, I’m robbing myself of what felt good based on a future consequence I didn’t realize. This sounds circular when I write it but in my mind it makes sense.

    I don’t want to feel guilty. Choices either feel good or bad NOW. I forgive myself for the things I did not know when I made my choice.



  249.  #249tinque on December 1, 2010 at 7:30 am

    Sweetpea – “you’re not supposed to advise your man”

    No not ever, UNLESS he asks. And then you leave him with the information to do with it as he does, no more to be said, UNLESS he asks again.
    xxoo



  250.  #250Femininewoman on December 1, 2010 at 7:45 am

    I have a question that I hoping you Sirens can help me with as I think I have bungled it in the past. When a man disappears for say two months and then reappear with an “I miss you” what type of feeling message can be shared at this point? If it is covered in the tapes I have not be able to buy any as yet. My thought is to say I appreciate your sharing that me and ask if there is anything he thinks he wants me to do about it or ask what he plans to do about it. Please let me know what you all think or how you might have handled it as I now understand that maybe it is because of leaning forward that triggers such long withdrawals.



  251.  #251tinque on December 1, 2010 at 7:50 am

    “It feels weird (or I feel confused) hearing from you.”

    This is how you feel isn’t it Feminiewoman? He disappears for two months, and then shows back up. On the one hand this might feel good, yet it feels disconcerting.

    The above is all you need to say. This will open the door for him to explain or share or say whatever it is he has to say.
    xxoo



  252.  #252Darling Ella on December 1, 2010 at 7:55 am

    Simply Shannon:

    Gosh, I would love to share it as I viewed it…but, I feel afraid/scared…of talking all the flavor away from the real presentation…I will watch it again and see if I can come up with a reasonable summary 🙂

    It’s kind of the same way you described your realizations about your bible study last nite…U comment triggered my recollection of Ester’s story 🙂 And you did it beautifully as well 🙂

    Got to go now…

    Hugs,

    Ella



  253.  #253Senior Lady Vibe on December 1, 2010 at 8:30 am

    New Rori post:

    When You Feel Attacked – and You KNOW it’s YOUR Stuff…What to Do
    Wednesday, 1 December 2010 @ 7:41am

    SLV



  254.  #254LonePlum on December 1, 2010 at 8:36 am

    245: Femininewoman

    Tell him how it feels for you

    If it was me, I would text back
    “It feels good to read I am remembered“
    That’s it
    I would feel good to know I have not been put into oblivion and he stills misses me.

    If he was tempting the water, he now knows he can go forwards, he will be welcome

    If he had no intention to come to me, if he only meant to say he misses me, then be it.

    I did not assume he wants to meet me, I did not reproach he did not want to meet me during the 2 last months either.

    I mirrored him, I just said what I feel.

    I would feel surprised by his text, but no longer than one second.
    The surprise would not last because deep inside I know they always write back later.

    So I would drop the surprise feeling.

    He might misread it as a reproach meaning he did not keep in touch so now he should not even talk to me.
    If we meet again, there will be time to hear his reasons.

    xxx



  255.  #255Femininewoman on December 1, 2010 at 9:19 am

    Thanks for your suggestions Tinque and LonePlum. What came to mind reading what you have said is “it feels weird hearing from you after two months but it feels good to know that I am remembered.” Would pointing out the two months cause a trigger as it is something he has done in the past. I am thinking of saying “I want to be in a full time romantic relationship” if he initiates any discussion because the last time we spoke he shared that he thinks of marriage as a business and wants to know everything about the financial status of the other person. He also shared that he does not think it is necessary to get married because stats show that most marriages end in divorce. He questioned whether I have thought about maintaining two homes and that he is not going to live with anyone’s mother, all this while communicating with his body language that he was afraid and wanting to run away.



  256.  #256Daria on December 1, 2010 at 9:54 am

    Sweetpea – in a situation where u are the more qualified partner… Or want to share an idea:

    I forget Rori’s script… But I remember the gist… It’s to ask him if he’s open to hearing the idea… And to make sure that he really is, even if he says yes. (check how the energy feels to you)

    I’d try

    “I have an idea if u think u want to hear it.”. With a smile and open energy, being open to a no as well as yes.

    A bit tricky. Will look for it in Rori’s stuff.



  257.  #257Daria on December 1, 2010 at 9:57 am

    Woke up to parents shouting at each other. Tho they love each other. All this could change w Rori tools.

    Put in earplugs.

    Feeling overall safe because I feel sure I’ll havewhat I want . Well I want to feel sure so I choose to. I mean regarding a happy family.



  258.  #258tinque on December 1, 2010 at 9:59 am

    Femininewoman – I like what you wrote though the two months bit may not be necessary. It feels to me like a bit of an attack or reproach as LonePlum put it.
    I feel concerned about his take on marriage. First of all it’s NOT true most marriages end in divorce, half of them do, and second marriages have a much better chance. The financial aspect also feel off to me.
    It’s your call now if you want to take this up again. Try tapping into your feelings, your deep inner knowing part. What is she telling you?
    xxoo



  259.  #259Sweetpea on December 1, 2010 at 10:28 am

    Thank you Ladies. He seems to be fishing for information, but not directly asking. I’ve just been leaning back & waiting for him to ask but it would feel so much better to be able to tell him I have some ideas if he’s open to it (thank you Daria).

    The thing is, he’s been in business for awhile & I l know he knows what he’s doing, but he’s overlooking some legalities that I know would help him out. Wow! Kinda frustrating not being able to say, but he’s a manly kind of guy & I don’t want to take on that masculine role & upset this dance we have going…



  260.  #260LonePlum on December 1, 2010 at 10:30 am

    62: Katnina says:

    You wrote
    ***and said ‘yeah, I was weirded out about 30 also. can I come see you perform?’ I felt weird and didn’t know so i told him I didn’t know how many tix I was getting and that I already had some people who want to come (it’s basically a student recital but my piece is kind of abouut him), which is all true. Then I told him I would let him know.
    So my question is: i would like him to see me perform, so if I have an extra ticket (& as long as one of my CD’s isn’t coming), would it be too leaning forward to text him that I have one if he is interested in coming still-assuming I dont hear from him before then?
    The show is in 2 weeks and I should know by next week how many tix I get for friends.***

    I don’t understand the part about the tickets.
    Does it mean only students can buy tickets and the only way for him to buy his ticket is if you save him one?
    Or can any stranger buy tickets at the entrance?

    Anyhow, the show is within 2 weeks.
    2 weeks is a long time for a man to keep quiet when he said he would like to see you.

    I would not call him to ask him to come watch me.

    He already said he wanted to. I would give space for him to feel he really wants to see me.

    I would wait for him to say hello to me, then I would tell him what’s up about the show.

    If he does not call, he is not interested just now.

    As for if whether you should save him a ticket when he calls you.

    I don’t know at all
    lol

    Let’s see how I transform:

    You say you don’t want another Cdater around, if you accept fireman’s visit.

    He might wonder: he left you for a month and you found no date yet? He could feel you are alone, no man wants to see you.

    It could be counterproductive plus it would not be true.

    I would let him buy his own ticket if he really wants to go (unless they are not buyable by strangers, in such case, I would save his ticket).
    Because I don’t mind what a man wants to do, it is his problem.

    But I would keep in mind I am not being fireman’s girl friend, not even his date.
    You save a ticket for him and he watches a show, that’s all.
    He is not asking you on a date.

    Your are free to accept an official date from another man.

    Fireman can understand he vanished from your life, plus he did not ask you on a date, so you accepted a date with another man.

    MrDate can also understand that other men, like fireman, want to watch your show.
    He can understand you do have more acquaintances than him and you have to say hello to some persons who came to the show.

    After the show, you say hello to fireman, you ask him if he enjoyed the show, and bla bla bla and then you say
    “I came with a friend and we are ready to leave now, we planned a little something to celebrate the show”. (or whatever your date has planned to do after the show)
    and you say good bye to fireman and leave with MrDate.

    Both men might see you as a totally free “diva rock star”.
    Your price might increase.

    Plus it really takes the pressure off fireman if that really was his problem.
    It gives him all the space in the world to pursue you.

    xxx



  261.  #261LonePlum on December 1, 2010 at 10:32 am

    93: marina

    Thank you
    I feel bad I made you cry.

    I hope you found the strength to speak to your manager and you sorted things out?

    xxx



  262.  #262Daria on December 1, 2010 at 10:33 am

    Feminine –

    I usually write…

    Wow! 🙂 feel surprised to hear from you!

    If I feel angry mire than happy I write…

    I feel kinda angry not hearing from u for so long ( they usually either redissapear or apologize)

    I try to best express how I feel … Rather than prompt a reaction.



  263.  #263LonePlum on December 1, 2010 at 10:34 am

    94: Daria

    Thank you
    I feel the peace you are sending me 🙂

    xxx



  264.  #264LonePlum on December 1, 2010 at 10:39 am


  265.  #265LonePlum on December 1, 2010 at 10:41 am


  266.  #266Simply Shannon on December 1, 2010 at 10:48 am

    Tinque, My pastor actually quoted a statistic that 70% of second marriages fail. I feel curious where you gathered the info about second marriages. I don’t know which is true. I haven’t looked. When I heard 70%, my brain froze up (yikes that’s high!) but I BELIEVE I’ll be a part of the 30%. 🙂



  267.  #267Lucy on December 1, 2010 at 10:54 am

    Shannon, I, too, heard a statistic similiar to the one you gave.

    When my baby girl was diagnosed with CF, the hospital social worker told us that 80% of marriages with a seriously chronically ill child end in divorce. We were stunned! But also felt sure we would be in the other 20%. Unfortunately, we did not beat the odds. I feel sad about that.

    I believe that second marriages can thrive no matter what anyone says. In fact. 😉



  268.  #268tinque on December 1, 2010 at 10:55 am

    Wow, SS, I wonder he got this information from. I wish I had it at my fingertips to show you. If you think about it though, the second time around not only are you older, you’re also wiser. You have a very good idea about what you want and what you don’t. You will have also gathered knowledge and wisdom such RR’s work.
    In any case it’s only numbers, and stats can be skewed any way the number gatherer wants. I wouldn’t put too much on them. Even if it’s true, 1/3 is still a large number.
    xxoo



  269.  #269Rori Raye on December 1, 2010 at 11:54 am

    akaydia – as long as you’re open to HIM – curling up any which way is fine – perhaps you’d like to uncurl for him when he hugs you? Love, Rori



  270.  #270Rori Raye on December 1, 2010 at 11:56 am

    Rosa, Welcome, and thank you for the lovely metaphors – and I add the idea that there’s no point in judging anyone’s beliefs – because we don’t know anything. Not really. We only THINK we do. So, let’s make it up good. My 2 cents. Love, Rori



  271.  #271LonePlum on December 1, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    108: Mercedes

    Thank you for your kind words

    xxx



  272.  #272Daria on December 1, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    thanks for teh links loneplum!

    i like em!

    and as a bonus, i busted up laughing at him in the first video when he was huffing and puffing lol



  273.  #273Daria on December 1, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    what if… encouraging our strengths naturally strengthens our ‘weak’ areas as well!



  274.  #274LonePlum on December 1, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    97: Meemee

    116: Meemee

    Thank you

    I feel good to read you are enjoying the newness in your life

    Keep in mind wherever you go, you go with yourself.
    It is inside yourself that you find freedom and respect and love for yourself.

    You will meet many men wanting secret free emotionless sex with you.

    You are the only person on this world who can protect you from accepting them.
    (If you don’t want them)

    They are not supposed to invite themselves at your place.
    They can’t just say “hey what’s up at your place Thursday? Can I come?”
    They are supposed to take you OUT.

    Write down what you want a man to do for you before he is allowed to even touch you.

    You are the only person in this world who can say “NO” to keep you safe.

    If you don’t use your power to say “no” they will take what life offers them because sex feels good.

    They assume when the woman does not feel good, she says “no” and she stops phoning them.

    When you don’t say “no”, they assume you are enjoying it.

    They don’t assume you expect love from them.

    When you go back to your office, your strength lies in seeing reality so you can handle it for your own benefit.
    Your strength lies in FEELING you are NOT bulliable.
    X does not bully you.

    You are beautiful, X does not mock your looks
    You are smart, X does not mock your mind
    You are good at your work, X does not mock your social worthiness.
    X has never said or done anything to bully you as a person.
    You are NOT bulliable.

    X’s personal attitude around sex is not a tool to measure your worthiness.
    X’s personal attitude around sex is his own problem, let him deal with it.
    Don’t take it personally.

    Don’t take his attitude personally and you’ll take possession of your self esteem
    You will still hurt and miss the dream you made up about him.
    You will still miss a lover. But it does not have to be him.
    It can be a man who loves you 🙂

    Keep safe.

    xxx



  275.  #275LonePlum on December 1, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    117: Isis

    Thank you so much Isis.

    I feel so sorry for you, I am crying here with you.
    I have no religion, but I pray with all my heart that a new love will soon find some room in your heart, by the side of the dear love you keep for your husband.

    xxx



  276.  #276LonePlum on December 1, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    144: Simply Shannon

    214: Simply Shannon

    Lovely 🙂



  277.  #277LonePlum on December 1, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    218: Daria

    I like your interpretation of beliefs.
    😉



  278.  #278mary on December 2, 2010 at 2:14 am

    Tinque!!!



  279.  #279Dave on December 3, 2010 at 1:51 am

    You can’t ‘turn’ him into a good person, he either is or he isn’t one. He could turn himself into one if he tried but if he was going to do that he would have done it years ago. He sounds like a power tripping authoritarian asshole. I think you should leave him. All you’re doing is rewarding and legitimizing his behavior by staying with him if your description of him is accurate.



  280.  #280Femininewoman on December 3, 2010 at 8:52 am

    Re 258 Tinque this is a long time friend that I am physically attracted to. I tend to be empathetic and understanding towards him because I know his struggles and we used to have really easy and fun times together in the past. Now that I am interested in something more serious all kinds of things seem to get triggered. Deep down I know he has issues that he has to work through, I know I want him and I believe we can be dynamic together. He has demonstrated deep listening and sharing when he wants to. It makes me feel really special and him sexy when he listens like that. When I am in his presence my body vibrates to the point that he senses it and has suggested in the past that I might be fearful but he understands that because he himself is so afraid of people because of being burnt on numerous occasions in money situations, he is a business man. At the core level we have been great friends and I can speak to him about anything but he doesn’t believe it is the best thing to do to share everything. My inner knowing is that he might be ready to move forward but still afraid.



  281.  #281Femininewoman on December 3, 2010 at 8:55 am

    Writing these things down is like therapy to me. I am feeling so liberated and open. I feel like my life is meaningful and special. I feel beautiful. I feel special. I feel tension being released out of my body especially my stomach. I feel tears welling up in my eyes. Thank you Rori and Sirens for accepting me in this space.



  282.  #282Femininewoman on December 3, 2010 at 10:57 am

    Thanks Daria for the suggestion.



  283.  #283Sharron Clemons on December 21, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    Writing these things down is like therapy to me. I am feeling so liberated and open. I feel like my life is meaningful and special. I feel beautiful. I feel special. I feel tension being released out of my body especially my stomach. I feel tears welling up in my eyes. Thank you Rori and Sirens for accepting me in this space.



  284.  #284carrie on January 4, 2012 at 6:10 am

    My husband and I seem to always fight because of our 3 boys. He gets so angry when all they want is me. I’ve tried to explaine to him its because he works and I stay at home with them. When we talk it turns into a fight (pretty nasty one). Please help i’m afraid my marriage won’t last because of this.



  285.  #285Rori Raye on January 4, 2012 at 3:45 pm

    Carrie, Basically, you’re fighting because you’re “explaining” things to him – when what’s needed is for you to empathize with him, and say, shit, that must feel awful, what do you think we should do to make this work better? Love, Rori



  286.  #286Amanda on January 23, 2012 at 7:07 pm

    My husband of 11 yrs. recently came back from deployment and my children & I were so happy upon his return…well, sadly, we haven’t been as close as I want us to be and see us being (The old Rori..) Well, recently, he was supposedly “mentoring” this woman and I didn’t seem to mind b/c of her preference(them liking the same thing..women).. I was ok with it…but thenI found out that he had been lying to me saying he had to work late, when he was actually spending time with this woman….one of the most thing I longed in our 16 yrs of being together and 11 yrs married. I later found out that she is pregnant and he had taken her baby shopping and out to eat numerous times…when he’s not taken myself out on a dinner date in over 8 yrs… I contacted this girl and asked if it was his, but she says she was insiminated…..I’m hurting so bad typing this… I thought I had nothing to worry about, but that’s simply not the case. I asked him about it as well, and he said it’s not his….well, after 2 1/2 months of no intimacy, I don’t really trust my husband…so, to gain some clarity, I asked him what he wanted and if he still wanted our marriage as I am at my wits end. I mentioned that speaking and communicating with this female was causing a major problem in our marriage and asked him not to continue on with it. Then I asked if he’d been in touch with her…he said no, but I didn’t feel he was telling me the truth…so after praying for a week and praying for some truth to be revealed, it was. His phone was flashing on silent and I started to cry…asking God that he give me strength for whatever I may be about to see….well, it being a smart phone, I knew nothing about it, so after praying, and it mysterically opened afterwards, my heart began to pound out of my chest almost. I directy went to messsages only to find out that he was spending time with this woman in her home when he was “suppose” to be working late, taking her to dinner, shopping for her & this unborn baby. OMG, I feel so incredibly sick typing this…I just cried for days.I sat there and read every text between the two of them all the way from the end of August. Messages that read that they missed each other…I never received these kinds of messages or texts. I asked him about it 2 days later, hopeing he would tell me the truth, but he just sat there and lied in my face. I then told him that I knew he was lying and quoted some of the texts that I read…he said nothing…I went home for almost a month to be away from him to try and gather my mind and thoughts and to be around family & friends who I knew loved me..( a distraction from reality) he contacted me and said he’d go to counsling, as that was the only was our 3 children & I would return…He agreed…He went to one session, where he went in with an attitude and only stayed for half of it….and the time he was with the counselor, I was asked to leave the room…..{yes, I was in the waiting room crying my eyes out}…I made a follow-up appointment for myself, but he says he’s not going back…as I was lied to yet again….now I’m hurting all over..basically making myself sick, and I’m trying not to b/c I have my 3 children who need me, but my oldest daughter sees my pain & isolation from her dad…I don’t say much. Anytime he’s on the phone, I feel it’s her he’s talking to, and then I no longer trust him anymore……what to do??? I’m stressing, and I feel stupid for being in love with this man and giving him my all.



  287.  #287Amanda on January 23, 2012 at 7:31 pm

    Umm, I recently sent in my situation, only to find that I may not get notifications b/c I’m missing a “n” on my email address where it’s ending in “o”….omgosh!…guess I got caught up wanting some help badly…



  288.  #288Rori Raye on January 23, 2012 at 8:16 pm

    Amanda – There are many ways to see this and respond to this. If it were me, I’d be seeing a lawyer to prepare to leave him, so I knew what to expect financially, and how it would work, and what my options are. Then – please get my ebook and start working the Tools, start Circular Dating just with friends and having conversations with men so you feel more confident out in the world as a woman – and not just as a mother. The problem, for me, is not the “emotional relationship” with this woman (he’s clearly smitten with her, yes) – but the lying to you. It’s difficult enough to come through something like this, and I don’t even know if this is at all a sexual relationship – but it’s near impossible to come through with a man who lies and sees no problem with the lying. It’s just a different value system. I also wonder how he is emotionally from his deployment. I wish you luck, Love, Rori



  289.  #289Amanda on January 24, 2012 at 9:28 am

    I was considering writing this woman a letter letting her know how she & him have disrespected me & my children, and wondered why when she knew he was married…just to see why….I know he’s not going to say anything. Would this be ok? We were “FB friends”, but when I mentioned it had something to do with my husband and that I knew where he was all those times, she blocked me…I was trying to wait to see the baby when she had her & post pics, but my curiosity couldn’t hold out…so again, my question is, would I be wrong to write her or ask for a DNA test and let the military know b/c she’s military as well…????



  290.  #290Neeta on March 1, 2012 at 7:50 pm

    Dear Rori and friends;
    Let me start by thanking you for such wonderful and inspiring insight which I lacked for well over 15 yrs of my life.
    In short, I am and sadly yes, a second wife in a polygamous marriage. The first wife and my dear beloved husband are in constant disagreement, which despite him finding out that their marriage wasn’t working few months into it, decided willingly to get pregnant and now 5 yrs on, and the result was 2 children, 3 and 2 yrs of age.
    There isn’t much emotions in their relationship and the only reasons he is sticking are the children and I’m assuming the shared house as he pays the mortgage.
    Our relationship is terribly affected by her presence as she still doesn’t know about me. I only get to see him when she travels (which is almost weekly) and that requires me driving for an hour or so to his place, or when he storms out in anger with her and decides to find his peace at mine.
    Divorce was not something they talked about, though I was naughty and found out she’d considered it last yr, right before we met, and that she has also started saving money monthly away from his sight.
    I’ve been married to him for 6 months now, love him to bits and sadly give him everything there is to give in the short time we are together. I clean his place and make it spotless (she thinks it’s him), I look after his daughter, and sometimes his son as well. I cook, do the laundry and make sure I take away any evidence of my presence before I leave.
    It isn’t easy coz I feel like shit every time Tuesday evening when it’s time to leave as she makes her way back to the house.
    Their arguments are on the rise but he still is hanging on making the kids as an excuse. I’m always available for him as he clicks his fingers. I treat him like a king and shower him with plenty of love and attention. When we r together, he is the best man on earth, but the minute I am gone, communication breaks down, and we can go days without talking or txting coz he says he is “busy” or didn’t get the chance. One note to be fair to him, he does almost all house work as she is a real mess, looks after the children on most occasions and manages to go to work.
    He’s just gone off sick at work for few weeks, so there’s more time for him at work. She works full time and doesn’t care for the children. She’s very disconnected and almost treats them like they’re not hers. Constant nag about how it is hard work for her to look after them, and she’d rather be at work or on the sofa at any given time!
    I know that it was not a very wise choice for me, and I’m accepting any criticism, but in all fairness I thought he would see the light when we got married and it would be very clear the end of their relationship, especially comparing everything I do, the way I handle th children and care for them.
    P.S: I trimmed the little girl’s hair 3 weeks ago (took 2ibches off) and she hasn’t noticed yet, and the list of things gone unnoticed goes on.
    My question is how do I take it from here?
    Yesterday after a chat with her, he told her if she didn’t get her act straight, this would be the end, but I’m afraid I heard B.S like this before and nothing ever happened for real.
    So since now I don’t trust that he will leave her, what do I do to get more of him? I tried asking him directly making sure I don’t put pressure, but though he was understanding of my needs, he didn’t really follow through!
    I’m tearful and feel very miserable. I don’t know what to do with myself anymore.
    P.S: everything is just perfect when we are together, but sadly that’s just the problem, we r not together except in her absence.
    Can u HELP plz?



  291.  #291Rori Raye on March 2, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    Neeta – Unless you live in a country where polygamy is legal – you’re not married. You’re his “mistress. If this is what you want – and you can live with the lying and deception – that’s fine. Just know it’s not likely to change. If you can enjoy things the way they are – great. And if you’re miserable now – you’ll always be miserable. I’m not sure why she’s choosing to stay married (might be financial, etc…especially if she’s the major breadwinner in the marriage) – but if you’re buying into this now…this is your life. Love, Rori



  292.  #292MARGO CEASAR on March 5, 2012 at 8:30 am

    I”ve ben married for 13 years and this pass december he got caught treating and i’m the one that caught his ass! now the girl claiming shes pregnant but he said he don’t know if the baby is his. But lately hes been acting funny and having attitudes just because he got caught! So now hes trying to find all kinds of little things to be mad at me about but im not falling for it. He can’t face the fact that he messed up. My husband is not the type to express his feelings but i could tell that hes hurt. Like right now hes not talkimg to me and i don’t know why so i giv ethe silent treatment back. I tried my best to work my marriage out but hes still dwelling on the past. What i did 5yrs ago is over. All i did is go out with friends to an all night club that close at 5am. I’ve never cheated on him at all. And of course he thought i was because i was coming back from the club in the morning. I’m just trying to get my marriage back on track. I love him dearly and he knows that so what can i do to get it back right. i really don’t wanna loose him.



  293.  #293Neeta on March 9, 2012 at 5:39 am

    Dear Rori,
    We currently don’t live in a country that allows polygyny however we are moving to one very soon (on his request). From what I see she is staying because of the house, finance and doesn’t want the social stigma she’ll get from her culture. She is equally not prepared to care for her children full time. She’d rather give them to someone and kiss them good night whenever she feels like it (fact).
    I totally agree, I am the mistress and I hate the feeling. Everything is being put on hold for the relationship to begin. His way out is either she leaves and asks or divorce or we leave the country as planned, but he isn’t prepared for telling her anytime this lifetime. Initially I thought it was the children, and I saw how attached he is to them, but lately I think he still has feelings for her, though he’d rather not live with her. He words it like this; “if I can have 2 peaceful days with her a week, and have u for the rest of the week, then I’m a very happy man”.
    They’ve kinda had a very peaceful week as they were apart since last Sunday, however the situation changes hourly with them. He will go back home today and spend the weekend with her and the children. I guess only time will tell.
    P.S: do you think she smelled my perfume all over her freshly changed pillowcases? Just wondering if that will trigger her to dig into the matter or she’ll continue to ignore my presence though she as a woman knows there is someone else!
    I’m now listening to your Reconnect your relationship audios and I almost beat myself up for all those mistakes I’ve done. I can tell you, I’m a classic example of the leaning forward, but I am changing and it’s not going to happen again. I feel empowered and more assertive listening to your words.
    Thank you



  294.  #294Neeta on March 10, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    Dear Rori,

    I just finished the Reconnect your relationship audios and I just wanted to drop a line to Thank you and let you know that my life starts changing now.
    I will use your tools and start dating myself and throw my work out at the window and it’s up to him to prove whether he is worth staying with or shall I look at my other options.
    Will keep you posted
    xxx



  295.  #295Barbara on December 7, 2012 at 6:40 pm

    I found your “man” advice pretty common sense, even though it’s really hard to actually DO IT that way. But I really try, however, what if you have a husband who is NEVER read to talk about it afterwards? My husband and I will start to fight, and he has finally learned to take off before it gets bad. Unfortunately, he has bullied me into fearing “talking about it” later, and he hates it when I bring it back up. So I will say ok, let me know when you are ready to discuss it. He’s quick to say, “NEVER”. He just shuts me down. There are so many things I would like to talk to him about: he doesn’t help me around the house, he’s on the computer whenever he’s home, he does more yelling and grumpiness toward the children instead of love and understanding, he treats me like his personal maid in order that he never has to leave the comfort of his couch corner, etc. I can’t talk to him about ANYTHING because he has bullied me to fear it. And if I mention anything at all, I’m “belittling” him, when I’m really not. He also has a personality disorder that he doesn’t get treated for, and I always use that as an excuse for his behavior, yet I’m just tired of it his lack of listening to me. 🙁



  296.  #296Rori Raye on December 8, 2012 at 10:47 am

    Barbara – please get yourself to a meeting of CODA (co-dependents anonymous) and get some support and help. Also, get my Toxic Men program, after you’ve worked steadily with the book. He will NEVER get treated for his situation if you don’t require it. Even forgetting about you and your needs – is this what you want for your kids? Love, Rori