If He’s Contacting Other Women Online….

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The Internet has created so many wonderful things for us, and it’s also created some nightmares for us women.

Our men can not only look at porn with the click of a mouse, they can also “social network” with women all over the world on all kinds of sites – even legit ones like myspace.

So what are we to do?

The truth is – this has ALWAYS been a problem.

Men who have “problems committing to one women” have always been able to flirt with other women when we’re not around, look at pictures of naked women and pornography in magazines, and contact women all over the world through personal ads and even phone lines.

The Internet may be relatively new, but the core problem and men’s creativity in doing what they feel compelled to do hasn’t changed.

Here’s a letter from “Confused,” whose boyfriend is “perfect” except for one thing – he collects women on myspace.  Even if this isn’t happening to you – I’ll bet it’s happening to a friend of yours, so let me know what you think and feel about all this:

“Dear Rori,
I have been using your tips before I met my current boyfriend and I’ve continued applying all your tools ever since we met, and let me tell you it has worked amazingly well. So well, that he asked me to move in with him after 8 months of dating! I agreed to move in with him, because we had a long commute to see each other and I had just sold my home.

Rori, things are getting better each day (your tools really do work!). However, I feel confused about something. Now that I am living with him, l learned he likes to flirt with girls online, he was using myspace originally and when I told him it really bothered me that he had that account he took it off.

A few months later I learned he had opened a new myspace account without telling me. I confronted him again about this. I got really upset with him. His reaction was surprising: he cried and told me he did not want to lose me that I meant the world to him. He then said that he was using that account to contact friends, and when he contacted girls it was just to flirt, because it boosts his self esteem. He says “some guys go out there and cheat, I flirt online as an outlet”. Two days later, he told me he closed the account.

Rori, as I have said before I have been applying all your tools before and during my relationship, and even though things are moving along just fine, I can’t seem to ignore the fact that my boyfriend contacts other women and exchanges pictures with them. It bothers me tremendously!!!! I have confronted him about this and he knows it bothers me. I told him that as long as he draws the line with these women it’s ok with me.

He is a guy in the end, so I guess guys need that outlet; but I feel like it is somehow going to affect my relationship. I know he loves me, but wouldn’t his habit affect my relationship? I believe that it would. Because while he is with me, he could be fantasizing about these other women. So he is with me physically, but is thinking/fantasizing about these other women which will stop our relationship from growing. What are your thoughts on this? Thank you for everything! Confused…”

Before I could respond, “Confused” wrote me again:

“Thank you for responding Rori.
I honestly think my boyfriend has a low self-esteem. I don’t know, maybe I am just justifying his actions. When I confronted him about how much this bothered me I made it clear that if he wants to meet/date other women to please let me know. I don’t want to waste my time with someone who is not serious about me, but at the same time I don’t want to be jumping from relationship to relationship. I want to make this work, but I can’t ignore how bad his habit makes me feel.

Thank you again for responding. I will look for your response on your new blog, and appreciate your advice. Still Confused”

***There’s a lot to this, and I want to really talk about this whole subject a lot in this blog ( I hope you’ll join in the discussion and let me know your experiences and how you feel about all this, too).

Let’s start, in this post – with the thing that most stood out for me, Confused’s statement: “He is a guy in the end, so I guess guys need that outlet…”

This is not true.  Guys who CHOOSE to be in committed relationships do not “need” anything like this. Guys who do NOT choose to be in committed relationships are entitled to follow their impulses however they want – they’re entitled to take advantage of every possible way to contact women – but a man in a committed relationship has made a CHOICE.

He either gets YOU, or he gets to wallow in the world of women.

This, to me, is a bottom line, basic Boundary RULE, and you should not accept it, period, unless it FEELS Okay to you. (Believe it or not, there are many women out there who say they wouldn’t mind, and I’ve met and talked to several who say they’re actually okay with sharing their men in this way.  This is what they say, however, and how they really feel might be something else entirely.)

There is one small, subtle thing, here, for us to talk about.

If I say it’s NOT okay for a man to actually make contact with other women (except for work, of course, and that’s a whole other issue we’ll discuss) – and I mean here reaching out to other women, either in real life or online, whether he calls them “friends” or not – then what about PICTURES of women?

Is looking at pictures of women and pornography online the same thing as contacting them, gathering them as friends on myspace, etc.?

And – I’m going to say NO. It’s not the same thing.  A picture is one thing – touching, and voice, email, text, and online contact are completely another.

You may differ with me on this (so let me know your opinion) – and I’ve worked with several clients to sort this out. (One woman has worked so brilliantly, and taken herself so far, that I’ll refer you to her blog when she’s got it up and running – you’ll want to talk to her if this is a problem for you.)

But let’s just say this – it all boils down to how YOU feel.  If what your man is doing (and doing it in front of you is way better than doing it behind your back) bothers you, makes you feel bad in ANY way – we’re going to have to figure out how to help you stand by yourself – even if it means walking away from the man.

My Tools work – Confused is experiencing how well they work – and now, we need to talk about what KIND of man you’re attracting (since you’re now attracting so many men…) and what to do if you’ve attracted a man you like who’s not exactly “perfect…”

Next posts: Standing up for yourself, how to talk to him about this kind of thing to actually give you the best chance of making a change, Boundaries, how to know when to leave…

Love, Rori



  1.  #1tinque on September 2, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    I believe I am the woman mentioned in this entry as having taken myself so far. It’s true. I have worked very hard and for what has seemed to me to be a very long time on the issue of pornography and my in every other way very dear, sweet man.

    The for me dissonance with the activity of looking at pictures of naked women and his obvious utter devotion and lust for me was confusing at the very least and devastating at the very most. It has taken me three years almost to the date of discovery of porn on his computer to heal from this and come to not only accept it but embrace it. I’m not saying that the Gremlin voices are silent, but when they do speak, it’s rare and barely a whisper, easily ignored, quite a change from even a few short months ago when they would still cling to me at times, not want to relinquish their hold, often shouting loudly.

    I knew from the beginning that what it was triggering in me had little to do with the porn itself but with other, much deeper core issues, likely stemming from childhood though I want to stress I did have to upend my belief systems around porn.

    Rori was my savior. I found her within days of what felt to me my world falling apart around me. She kept me from sinking under completely, but it was my own deep desire, dedication, determination which got me to where I am now.

    All that said, I have to agree with Rori that there is a clear difference in looking at photos for whatever reason and having contact with a live person whether in person or otherwise. I would call this cheating. So would my man.

    Everyone has their own boundaries. Some would consider this acceptable behavior, but some also deem open relationships as okay. From what the above woman says in her letter, it seems to me that she is not at all comfortable with it. It could be a deal breaker for her, but only she can determine this for herself.

    She must talk about this with him, in feelings statements, or she will harbor increasing resentment which will fester and eventually come out. She needs to determine if this is something her man really feels badly about about and wants help for his low self-esteem or if he’s wanting his cake and eat it too so to speak. She must follow her instincts. She must trust herself.

  2.  #2KAREN on September 8, 2008 at 10:14 am

    I too, agree…. it is one thing to look at pictures and quite another to be conversing with other women on line…. you can get emotionally attached and start sharing things that should be only between the 2 of you….. it is much easier to have a FANTASY relationship with someone on line than to deal with the here and now I too have been in this situation and had to be willing to walk away from the relationship if things in OUR relationship did not change…. i believe if we listen to our heart we will know if our man is in the relationship with us with his heart or not…..
    I started using Rori’s tools and it Totally turned my relationship around with my husband! I do not try to analyze every thing he says and does…. I am enjoying OUR relationship and doing things that I enjoy not just focusing on him anymore…. but being soft on the outside and firm on the inside and letting him know how things make you feel is soooo important….

  3.  #3Rori Raye on September 9, 2008 at 5:47 pm

    Thank you so much for your comments. It’s so great to know that even this horrible-feeling situation can turn around – that things can get better. And it’s also amazing to realize how much power we actually hold in our relationships with men.

    If we can learn to feel our power and love our power and USE our power for our own good – it’s as though a man feels compelled to follow us to a much higher level of love – as though he’s been waiting for us his whole life to help him clear out his own brain of all the muck and misuse he’s stuck in.

  4.  #4lhb on October 21, 2008 at 11:39 pm

    I am a parent of a daughter whose bf was heavily involved with porn use, and tried to justify it as a college habit, dismissed her feelings about it (which she candidly expressed), but made promises to cease but eventually returned to using and lied. He blamed her for his not giving up its use because she did not reward him adequately with praise. His only reason was to ‘prove to her’ that HE could?! After many rounds, starting 4 months into the relationship when she calmly voiced her concern (and he became incensed if she merely mentioned that an actor was attractive!), and another 2 years of explaining her feelings (with hopes that he would hear her), she decided that the issue was a deal-breaker, based on how she felt. It took a lot of courage on her part to weigh the one blatant con against numerically more pros. In her mind, having a lot of smaller good qualities cannot offset a glaring disconnect. Every now and then she wonders if she shuld have ‘sucked it up’ and accepted his porn use….but her self-questioning disappears after she thinks of his lying, blaming, and lack of empathy for her feelings.

  5.  #5Caroline on October 22, 2008 at 9:51 am

    I went through the same. Although, unlike Confused’s man, mine would keep the profiles and never delete them. I began watching the profiles for the dates of access and he eventually left those and created yet more and more of them. He always claimed to not be able to remember the passwords or did not know how to delete the accounts. I am no fool and I told him so. Point blank. I believe in complete and absolute bald honesty and told him that I preferred it that way. When he would ask what I want, I told him complete honesty, no matter how painful is better. He was always remorseful and cried that he had a problem and believed he was addicted and felt sorry for these women. He never closes the door in their conversations. It was left up to them to walk way from the encounter. Normally, I would have excused this because it was an addiction but because I have been learning your tools, I did not make excuses for him nor did I try to “fix” his problem. That is his battlefield of the mind with Satan, not mine. I prayed for him and told him I did. Each time, I felt or sensed he had fallen or felt depressed, I prayed for him. I noticed early on that when he said he felt depressed, it was often over his feelings of guilt for having succumbed to the temptation of flirtation. He said it was addictive just to try to go out and see if he could get a woman to want him which led me to believe it was a lot of insecurities for him as a man. I thought I’d help build his self-esteem by telling him how attracted to him I felt and told him of the things I admired, the good things about him. At first, he would always downgrade himself and really denigrate himself. After a few months, I realized that the sympathy he ensued from me by doing that was also an addiction for him and made me realize he could very well be a toxic man. [Each time, I realized another aspect of his sordid life, I was repulsed and wanted to run away from him myself but each time I tried the heart connection was so strong that it tore me up to be away from him. I’ve never felt so drawn to a man in my life and that’s an addiction for me. It seems each time I would set myself to leaving him, it hurt me so much because of the connection that I never got very far.] When I realized that sympathy was an addiction for him, I cut back on my verbal responses and refused to acknowledge his whining with things like “I have faith in you that you can do better” instead of saying poor baby (a really bad habit of mine), I would just pat him on the back and hold him. I realized at that point that I didn’t want a baby … I want a MAN! Tough love really came home to me here. I have always been an overfunctioner and realized that my lack of boundaries was what created those situations where the people in my life took advantage of my goodwill and compassion and I was always forgiving them and the cycle would just repeat itself. Now, I am still forgiving but I have a limit to how much I will allow before I am no longer sympathetic and choose to distance or remove myself completely from them and what I believe is not mine to do. I have learned that for God to be allowed to do His work in them, I have to walk away.

    Each time, I’ve turned to walk away from my man. He has always said “Hey, wait a minute! Where are you going? Why are you running away from us? Don’t you want to work it out?” and I just repeat that I love him with all of my heart and there is nothing that I can do to save him from himself. That is his job. All I can do is love him and set him free. That’s when I stopped keeping tabs on who he was talking to because that was just hurting me so much more. I said …

    “Please, Please … do not feel sorry for me. My God can pick up the pieces left behind. I love you and I would rather set you free than for you to feel trapped. I want your happiness above all else, including my own.”

    “You’ve led me to believe so much and then withdrawn each one. One minute you are mine, and the next, you are not. Hope is once again re-offered to keep me believing there’s a future with you. You are back and forth on what you want in regards to me and I can no longer keep up. I love you but I feel myself feeling the need to back away from you. I want your love but until you are ready… You are a free man. Free to choose what you really want.”

    That very day, he decided that he was going to commit to me and stopped talking to those women. They still call his phone but he does not answer. The stragglers are down to 2 and I know sometimes he still battles within himself but that’s his battle and I would not be respecting him or allowing him to be a man, if I played mommy and tried to step in and clean the house so to speak. However, tempting that may be I am resisting and believing that God has a future in store for me with this man or another stronger man.

    I really appreciate your tools and wish I could afford to buy them all. I’m working on snippets here and it’s still working. Thanks!

  6.  #6Caroline on October 22, 2008 at 9:59 am

    One of my prayers for my man was for him to feel “bad” each time he strayed and did something that was not good for him. LOL – I believe it works. Each time he said he felt bad, I giggled and said. I’m sorry, I do hope you learn how to change whatever it is that is making you feel so poorly, and kiss his cheek.

  7.  #7Rori Raye on October 22, 2008 at 12:09 pm

    This is not one-size-fits-all.
    Tinque is the absolute expert on this, as far as I’m concerned (go visit her blog at tinque.blogspot.com) – and yet Tinque is talking about a whole higher level of “consciousness” than most men have.

    Your daughter’s man sounds unable to TALK – which is the one crucial aspect of ANY problem in a relationship. If you can’t talk – you’re ADDICTED.

    An alcoholic or junkie can’t logically or emotionally discuss his “habit.” His habit is masking much deeper issues he can’t confront.

    Same with porn. If he’s addicted, it’s like giving up drugs. There’s no way to reason with him.

    However, if he’s NOT addicted – if it’s recreational, or a smaller habit like nail-biting, or even cigarettes, say – then anything’s possible.

    If a couple can work through this TOGETHER – then it will all work.

    And bottom line – it doesn’t matter.

    All that matters is how you feel. Every woman is different.

    Once you’ve opened up communication, once you’ve talked from your heart, once you’ve confronted your Own inner stuck places – then, unless he wants to do the work, too, things really are dealbreakers.

    So sorry this was the way it worked for your daughter, and yet – if you’re in this situation – don’t give up hope!! Talk to Tinque…and keep writing here…

    Love, Rori

  8.  #8Rori Raye on October 22, 2008 at 12:19 pm

    Caroline – Welcome, and thank you for your story – wow – you really turned things around!

    I hope everyone reads all your words, and how you stepped back, and how great your results are.

    I can feel how steady you are on the inside.

    One Tweak – see if you can really take your energy off of him and off of this, and I’d like to ask you to stop praying for him to feel “bad” when he “strays” back to his old patterns. (And it’s totally fantastic that he does it so much less, now – you’re amazing!) Instead, pray for your own happiness, and for him to feel “Good” about devoting himself to you alone. You deserve it. Love, Rori

  9.  #9searchingwithin on October 22, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    I was in a live-in (I know, I know) relationship with a man who started doing this very thing. He joined a dating site, and then told me that he signed me up too, and wanted to see if we would come as a match. I knew he had not signed me up, and went ahead and did it myself. When I brought it up, he asked what was the problem with it, it boosted his ego to have women send him messages, and that he could tell by my attitude that it was a problem, and I didn’t understand. I told him that he wouldn’t mind if I signed up then. His response was, “that’s NOT funny”. To which I responded that I already had, back when he claimed to have signed me up.

    Not only was he trying to boost his own ego, he was trying to make me jealous, both games I just don’t play. Needless to say, this was the beginning of the end. When I didn’t play his games the way he wanted me to, he got more desperate and began playing more. I turned and walked away, on to a better life.

  10.  #10Sasha J on November 13, 2008 at 2:27 am

    Hi rori here is a follow up ….this mail reads so differently and yet it’s about the same man.
    I feel so sad and desperate and my stomach and my heart feels so achy and sad…

    I guess this is about a man with very poor self-esteem and boundaries….must’ve been my wonderful feeling messages that kept him coming back.

    I just walked out on my boyfriend of over a year today.
    I feel so lost, and yet so intact.
    My stomach and heart feel all this aching and sadness and yet I am here.
    he has a chronic sore foot from a motorcycle accident a couple of years back.
    He has just had his most recent surgery less than a month ago. he has been having problems with work, having to leave the trucks as his foot turned arthritic
    and not being able to be on his feet for very long. he is homebound and unemployed at the moment.
    being a very physical person (he does not read; used to work as a truck driver, and does rough sports like wakeboarding etc)
    I listened to your reconnect-your-relationship and found it useful to ‘back off’ and not get lost with him and go ‘there’ with him
    with his low self-esteem, and concentrated on my own happiness, and PhD in-progress at hand.
    However everytime I turned my back to do stuff that makes me happy, I found that he has been flirting and trying to make contact with other women.
    On dating sites. posing as someone slightly younger..everything else comes across as he is genuinely wanting to make friends with and date and possibly have a relationship with someone. at intermittent times throughout our relationship.
    I’ve talked to him, genuinely left him a couple of times; 6 weeks ago I found out he had sex with a girl…she and her boyfriend and I were socialising one night having drinks.
    And as I went to bed to wait for him, they had snuck out to the park!
    It feels ridiculous telling all this and still be feeling so sad.
    He had won me back and treated me like a princess and telling me that he wanted to be with me forever.
    I have been very honest with my feelings…FEeling doubtful that we will work out because it feels so unhealthy.
    Every single day he his actions have been lovely. Only when I turn my back.
    I feel like I am a space and time filler, even though looking for other girls online was probably the space and time filler for him.
    I feel so ashamed I even entered to anything with him. And yet I still feel an emotional attachment.
    I feel so unimpressed and turned-off that he has had all this time on his hands….for so much of the year, but all he did online was porn and dating sites.
    Not much effort in getting his act tigether.

    Just when I started to feel like I was healing again,
    last night I just felt the urge to go check his history pages.
    I felt sad when I realised I did not feel surprised at seeing him having visited dating sites.
    On an angry and probably desperate whim I set up a fake account to bait him and sent him a ‘flirt’ message.
    receiving flirty messages back today in my inbox from him saying he was keen to meet up made me feel sick and ill.

    Wow as I am reading this I do not see the confident girl that spends alot of time ‘working’ on her self-esteem at all in this mail.
    I feel so upset because everything that has felt good has felt real…and genuine.
    and yet I know I have done the right thing.
    I must be fishing for some hand-holding.
    A part of me is yearning to yank his good side into view and just focus on that.
    But I will not act on it.

    I feel like there is such a massive disconnect between educating myself and my actions.

    Thank you for reading.

    Hi Rori, this is me again 6 days from that message.
    Alot has happened then.
    I feel so proud of myself.
    I will take the time to give you a ‘transcript’ of what i’ve been telling him…only when he came forward.
    I fell off the horse yesterday and felt all anxious and panicky…i got back on and feel better now.

    i have your toxic man program…have not gone through it yet…glanced through the pages…i remember i used it once months ago, and was convinced he was just Difficult.

    I feel so amazed at how when we so badly want to believe something (eg, this man is worth it) we will look for reasons to support that.

    I feel sure he’s toxic. I have been aware of his “low self-esteem” red flag all along. I felt so carried away by all the physical comfort and affection and attention, I somehow hoped that my feeling happy around him would inspire him to be better.

    it did work. But at this point I think his capacity has been reached.

    Thank you with all my heart

  11.  #11Linda on November 18, 2008 at 6:12 pm

    I am reading and can identify so well. I love a man who I suspect has an addiction. I know of three occasions in which he met them..woo’d them and bed them. I was one of them unfortunately. There may be more. I dont know. My love for him grew out of a loving 2 year relationship.(we lived together for most of that time) . I have struggled greatly within myself and resolved many issues of neediness (which he fostered and encouraged) to being strong and realligning my anchors. (he can not be one anylonger). I press into again to be the moral God fearing woman I truely am. This is what I come up with… my power speach so to speak.
    “I want a MAN not a male who is searching blindly and driven addictively to find a way to compensate for his flaws, insecurities, poor self esteem and boundries. Instead I want a man who is concentraiting on being a dedicated, loving and commited partner.”!

    We are taking a break from our relationship.. I have been reading up… my love for this man does fade but my stratagies for a continued relationship if there is one have greatly changed. Pulling away, but being open when he moves toward me is one. Watching my body language is another. I am letting go of him. He is a free man to do as he chooses, I am not his trap. Unless he shows me he is worthy of my respect and he respects himself and me the deal is broken. In the meantime I to not text or call. Another thing I am doing is getting to a place of drawing boundries for yourself is to sincerly look at what you want in a relationship. Make a list just like you are going shopping. The Three that are on the top of my list is honesty, integrity, and respect!

    I love what one earlier comment says…I BELIEVE that GOD has a future for me and a man who is emotionally healthy and will devote himself to me, and then I can do the same for him. As Rori has said.. no man has the right to us exclusively unless there is a public commitment!. Yeah! Whether it is this man or not I do not know but I will not settle. I have come to far out of myself and self destructive behavior patterns to turn back now!

    I am learning to live by myself, even if I dont like it! All is well.

  12.  #12Caroline on November 19, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    The most sickening thing about reading these and relating so well, is the fearful thought that anyone of us could be in a relationship with the very same man because of all the duplicity. I know that this is not true but the fact remains, there are a lot of men doing this. It’s enough to drive a woman away from men for good. If it doesn’t work out, I swear, I am dedicating my life to God and to BLEEP with men!

  13.  #13Caroline on November 19, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    When I met my man, he had a black book of over 100 women’s names and phone numbers with little comments about them in the margins. He has told me that he has been with up to 6 different women at one time and NONE of them knew about the others. It is hard to fathom none of them knew.

  14.  #14tinque on November 23, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    I’m horrified and saddened by these stories. My heart goes out to you all who have suffered like this. There may be a great many toxic men out there as all of these sound to be, but I want you to know that there are many wonderful ones. As you change yourselves and how you feel about yourselves, as you treat yourselves more and more as the goddesses you all are, the more and more you will attract the ones who will treat you as such.
    Keep up the tremendous work.

  15.  #15Joogena on December 3, 2008 at 9:19 am

    Hi Rori,
    You should consider putting together a program specifically targeted to spouses of s*x/porn addiction.

    This problem is becoming more widespread and the devistating effects are so painful and confusing and earthshattering and etc… I could go on and on.

    When men are afflicted with SA/PA they cannot see anything beyond theirselves so no matter how you change your own attitude you will not get through to them.

    Imagine being in love with someone who only sees you as an object. Cause that is what you are to them.

    There is no difference in looking at naked pictures or signing up for a dating site. To the PA/SA its all the same. It’s just a fix for them. Even women walking down the street will give them a fix.

    Take some time and browse the forums at:
    no-porn.com and recoverynation.com to an idea of what this addiction is doing to innocent loving women who only wanted a caring and loving relationship with the man they love.

    Here is a link to a site that helps to explain what women are going through:

    I look forward to hearing your comments.

    PS. I bought the Have the Relationship You Want ebook and I think it’s a great book for many but it doesn’t cover this specific problem.

  16.  #16Rori Raye on December 3, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    Hi, Joogena, and Welcome – You are so right – this is such a huge topic – and here’s the place to go…Tinque. Her site and work is not about actual addiction – that’s something else – but she talks about how to work the average man’s average online porn habit into your life in a different way that can be healing for everyone…I have an article by her on this site…


    Love, Rori

  17.  #17joogena on December 4, 2008 at 8:56 am

    Hi Rori,
    Thanks for responding so quickly.

    This is a huge topic and is getting bigger by the minute. I am glad that things worked out ok for Tinque, but giving that advice to women is not such a great idea until they can identify if there is an actual problem.

    Many women bought into the “re-enactment of porn” to please their husbands without knowing that they were not only contributing to the problem but also found themselves doing things they weren’t comfortable with, which in turn only lowered their self-esteem and self worth.

    There are sites online which list the symptoms of SA/PA that may be a better choice to read before suggesting that a woman join in her husband’s porn activity.

    This addiction can go on for many years without the woman even knowing what the problem is (why the need to identify the problem is so important) and then the fallout of finding out and realizing that they have wasted so much time (literally years) blaming themselves over something they had no control of to start with.

    I am aware that not all men or women for that matter will become addicted by looking at a few pictures but why would anyone who is in the business of helping others build relationships even suggest that it is ok look at porn as well as joining in with the activity when the end result could be so devastating. Shouldn’t you at least make sure there is not a problem there to start with.

    I probably would have responded a little differently if you hadn’t posted a link to a page that made pornography seem ok if you just join in with him. (This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. Yeah honey let bring thousands of porn stars to the bedroom in our heads. How intimate is that?) Maybe I read the page all wrong…

    My first post was a suggestion that you should put together a program to help spouses of SA/PA because your ebook “How to Have the Relationship You Want” did have a lot of great ideas. But I take that back now if you actually agree with Tinque’s page. (If you can’t beat them… join them.)

    I’m not trying to be ugly, I just have a different opinion on this I guess. Sorry if I came off that way.

  18.  #18Karin on December 6, 2008 at 7:08 pm

    I was married for too long to a man who was deeply involved in online porn (daily use). He too refused to discuss his porn use with me or a counselor. (Oddly he made no real attempt to conceal his porn and our teenage children were all aware!)

    As time passed the type of porn he was interested in escalated from fairly ordinary sexy pictures and stories to videos of violent acts. “Russian soldiers rape schoolgirl” was running on the computer one day when I went to read my email!!

    I am only now starting to understand the problem. It is good to have this out of my home.

  19.  #19Rori Raye on December 7, 2008 at 11:29 am

    Karin, Welcome – and so glad you feel relieved and so much better. I look forward to your comments here. Love, Rori

  20.  #20Linda on December 14, 2008 at 4:25 pm

    Rori, I have posted in several topics here but I have a question that I really need advice on. The man I was involved with and still love is one that I met on the internet initially. We had a wonderful relationship until he got online again and got involved with another woman while still living with me. He broke it off with her and seemed devoted to me again …. but then a year later the cylce repeated and he did it again. He never took responsibility for the break down of our relationship, always sighting that it was something I did not provide him somehow (which I found offensive becasue I feel like it was an excuse he used to justify his actions to himself) We are not together now. He says he loves me as a dear friend but not in love with me. I really would like to explore making another stab at making a connection with him again because we were so great together at one time. The attraction and relationship we share was beyond what I had ever imagined was possible. My question is…which program information would fit best for my situation. Will any of them be of benefit even if you are not even talking. The feelings of “being in love” are great and attraction is great too but what is a foundational program I could best use to try to accomplish what I would like to attempt?

  21.  #21Sheila on September 15, 2009 at 10:27 am

    Sorry, Guess I should have posted my question here:(

    I’m very frustrated,also sad, but I am very much in love with my boyfriend. I’m 49 years old and my partner is 50… He has not been in very many long term relationships, longest one has been 8 months, for my self I was married for many years then divorced because of a unhealthy relationship, my second relationship lasted almost 10 years then my boyfriend died in 2006. I met my new man in april of this year. we have great chemistry,laughing,spirituality, cry together, loving, enjoy tantra which he introduced me to. We love the intimacy it brings us.. I good go on, but i need to ask this question…He told me he used to masturbate allot, and give himself many orgasms,that’s cool i have also when I was in no relationship. But I think he is addicted to masturbating,He won’t kiss me anywhere butmy lips and of course my sacred area, I asked him if he still does and he was open and honest about it. He says not anymore, I truly want to believe him but research from what little i found was that a man gets a high from doing it himself, he has let himself go into me once after 6 months( I think it surprised him) I told him how much I felt like we were one, he also agreed how good it felt, the other times we go a very long time making love because of the tantra we can both stop the ejaculation process (i Know that’s great) but he can’t ejaculate in me or even when he is still hard or has to pull out because he looses his hardness it becomes limp, Of course i don’t feel like I’m sexually attracted to him but i know i am by the way he touches and loves me, he uses the excuse of being tired or that maybe he’s not use to me i say bull crap! not to him though. The research also says, a man can get moody or not interested in having sex with their partner they are used to giving them pleasure only,,,I do every thing that turns him on we are both very open, he has taught me to love my body and not to be ashamed because of being used as a sex object all my life. He wants to be the best lover to me and he is, he tells me that no woman has made him so sexually attracted. We can talk about anything, except for his hand stimulating himself…i asked him once for honesty and told him that it was okay because he was alone so many years, hey I said i understand i have my toy also. please help me to find out if this is truly a problem or not, They also say that a man will have trouble focusing if they masturbate too much he has all the symptoms but i have no answers to go with, i’m sorry this is so long but i love my relationship and my man of course…but need help.> I want this relationship to be full of trust, and to be a healthy one…I have come to a point in my life where I have found someone who is compatible and enjoys life the way most people should. I want to be there no matter what and work on our relationship with our selves and on each other. Hes brought so much fullness into my life he is a bonus and I know he feels that way also.
    > Thanks sheila

  22.  #22Sheila on September 16, 2009 at 10:53 am

    I’m so sad,and confused, it happened again can’t take the unworthiness feeling from my heart

  23.  #23Rori Raye on September 17, 2009 at 10:03 pm

    So sorry, Sheila, Welcome, and try this: Make FRIENDS with that “unworthy” feeling. It’s just a feeling — an OLD one. Embrace it. Give it love. Like a flower bulb, it may grow into something you like better! Love, Rori

  24.  #24Sheila on September 18, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    Beautiful, Rori
    Thank you

  25.  #25Carrie on September 27, 2009 at 8:09 pm

    I realize this is an old post but I was hoping to receive some advice. A friend recommended this site to me after talking to her earlier today. I just found out two days ago that my husband, whom I’ve been with for nine years and married to for a year in December, has been chatting online with women under a hidden account for 2 years, possibly longer. I want to emphasize that I found this account – which I think is important – he didn’t admit anything to me and actually admitted he’d probably still be continuing his behavior if I weren’t for my finding out. I read a few of the sample conversations that I found and they were varied; some were friendly in nature, some were romantic (there was one women that he continually said he loved and seemed to be carrying on a online romance with) and some were completely sexual (disturbingly so). He told me as an explanation that he liked the “game” of getting women to fall for him, that it was a rush, an addiction. The very worst part of all is that it didn’t end there. I asked him if he had met any of these women in person and he said no, until I found the evidence that he had. He now claims that he has met two different women within the last year and only kissed them. I was able to talk to one of the women who confirmed this, but I can’t get ahold of the other one. I feel like my life has been turned upside down. Now that we are married, my family and friends are pushing me not to get a divorce, saying that it is too huge of a step when he didn’t technically sleep with anyone, but to be honest, it feels as bad as if he had. He invited one of the women that he met to come meet him at our HOUSE when I was away (I teach night classes at a college), but he claimed she never came. I think when it moves over into reality it is cheating. When he is sneaking around, eating with someone and lying about it, it is cheating. When he puts his mouth on someone else’s it is definitely cheating. I feel like the trust is completely gone, especially since he lied to me, even after I’d found the account. He lied first saying that he didn’t have a messenger account (I found his secret email first), then he lied saying that he had never met the women, then he lied saying that he had never been physical with them, until I found the evidence disputing each claim. He claims now that he didn’t have sex with them, but I don’t know what to believe.
    He has agreed to go to counseling for his “addiction,” and he seems all chipper and happy now, saying a weight has been lifted off of him, which makes me think that he got away with something I don’t know about or maybe I haven’t yet discovered his “girlfriend” or the most serious one. Also, he keeps insisting that I delete the messenger account (I changed the password on it so that he couldn’t delete it), but I want to keep it because I’m certain that there is something else out there that I haven’t found yet. The message history is on there, and I want to read it all. He says all that does it keep him from moving forward because it just gets me upset all over again. Honestly, I’d be upset anyway.
    Do you have any advice? I’m so lost.

  26.  #26Rori Raye on September 28, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    Carrie, welcome, and I’m so sorry. Look — I don’t like to give advice on stuff like this. If you come to me wanting to fix this…I give you Tools…we work on boundaries, on stepping back, and working through it. But…truthfully …if this were me…I’d throw him out of the house and let him crawl back if he wanted to. I don’t see anything less than losing you, the home, your comfort…as motivating for a man like this. And this is just not something I would live with. I’d rather be with a boring man who didn’t light my fire but who loved me totally and was there for me than something like this. And I wouldn’t want to put one little bit of energy into fixing it. It’s all HIS to fix. Circular Date and get your mojo back. Love, Rori

  27.  #27Julia on November 13, 2009 at 10:27 am

    Dear Rori, thank you for your site,, I’ve just recently started to search for answers around sexuality, pornography etc and without a doubt it can spin me into pieces! My boyfriend has a foot fetish,, I know that you have stated that pictures and such don’t change how a man feels about us,, but how can we feel attractive and valued by him after seeing these beautiful girls in all their glory and seeing how he responds?? Im so discouraged with it all. I find everything around me suffers when this stuff is present. I feel he loves and cares about me and I would like to be well enough adjusted for this fetish to be ok but i just dont know how ..It makes me want to dump and run

  28.  #28Rori Raye on November 13, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    Julia – I have the answer for you – and it’s to go directly to Tinque. She posts here… this issue with sex, fetish, porn is her specialty…find her at http://www.SexandHeart.com, email her, call her, talk to her. From me…this is all about your own self-esteem, and as you shift to a stronger, better place with YOURSELF, as Tinque will tell you how to do this USING the relationship instead of fighting it all – HE will shift also…Love, Rori

  29.  #29Sher on November 23, 2009 at 11:48 am

    Hi Rori:

    This is a tough topic, both internet flirting and porn viewing, as it affects different women differently.

    I have a friend with two daughters under five, who is currently separating and getting divorced over her husband’s addiction to porn. What started as more casual viewing, over time became so addicting that he lost a great job after warnings to not look at porn on company time/computers, and then was rejected for a promotion a year and a half later for the same reason. She decided to divorce him because she feels he was cheating on her, and because he lied regarding his continued use and other things. She felt their marriage had lost all intimacy and integrity, and it was unacceptable to live with those conditions, or to raise her daughters to believe it was acceptable. I personally believe looking at porn is a form of cheating, and would not date or marry a man that I knew was ‘using’ it. To imply that men are visual, therefore they can’t control their desires and will naturally use porn is insulting to them. If it’s acceptable to the woman, or a shared activity, then that’s between the two of them. But many men have integrity and the ability to resist pornography. More than whether porn is part of the relationship or not, it’s whether it’s honestly discussed and agreed to. I believe it’s the loss of trust and integrity in a relationship lead to a loss of intimacy, and that’s where the true harm lies.

    Internet flirting: I have another friend who discovered that her fiance was flirting on the internet with another woman, when she came early to his house and got online, and found the open yahoo personals account when she shifted the mouse. He felt it was no big deal and that her hurt feelings were out of proportion. She felt this was the same as cheating, and I agree. If a man is so insecure that he must flirt on line to feel good about himself, what is to say that over time he may not meet someone exception and want to further that flirtation? He has opened the door to another woman’s feelings, and the flirting may be more meaningful to her. Again, if both partners are comfortable with BOTH partners flirting on line, then that’s between them and an honest part of their relationship. There’s nothing wrong with it if they both agree to it.

    For my own well-being, if a man is in a committed relationship with me, I consider it cheating if he flirts with women on line, or fails to make them aware he’s in a committed relationship if they approach him (in person or on line.) I am not the relationship police, so I will not monitor this. I don’t choose dishonest or immature men to date, and if they need me to force them to be faithful in any way (porn, flirting in person or on line), they are not worth my time. By setting that expectation, and not making it negotiable, I’ve found that a better caliber of men have entered my life. Through circular dating I found a man that fits me beautifully, and we are engaged to be married in the spring. Considering that I am 50 years old and overweight, I can honestly say that the more I value myself, the more wonderful men have come into my life. Self-respect and leaning back have done more for my dating life than being fit, dressed well, hair/makeup, the works… It is astonishing to me how many good men there are out there who will appreciate a woman for her inner qualities (I am a siren!) and be less concerned about the external. Not that chemistry isn’t important, but it’s a pretty ethereal thing… chemistry. Once that initial attraction happens, I’ve learned that mature men fall in love with the heart, not the body or face. And I’ve learned that sexiness is about feeling good and being open and warm, not about how many positions you know or how great you look in thigh highs (contrary to popular women’s magazines that I spent a fortune to learn how to do it wrong. I’ve learned it late, but I’ve learned it!) Thanks, Rori!

  30.  #30Rori Raye on November 23, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    Sher – Brava, and thank you for sharing your wonderful story…Love, Rori

  31.  #31lm on December 13, 2009 at 9:05 pm

    i realize this post is over a year old, but i had to comment. i just left a very intense 15-month relationship over my boyfriend’s use of dating sites and a romantic email he sent to a woman i’d never heard of. i felt unsure for a long time about how to handle the situation and i made myself half-crazy pretending that it didn’t bother me as much as it did. he says that it was meaningless, but the more i came to accept my feelings the more i knew the only thing i could do was leave him. now he says i’m his best friend and that he loves me, but i know that this behaviour isn’t something i want in my life and that i’d put much too much energy into trying to make the relationship work after finding what i did. i feel so proud for finally following my own feelings and honouring myself! thanks rori!

  32.  #32Susan on January 28, 2010 at 9:23 am

    I have been circular dating for the last year and a half after ending a long marriage. Of the men that I’ve dated, one of them has been getting closer to me and I have allowed it since we’re so compatible and I feel that I am falling in love with him and he with me, but I am taking it very slow. We are both not exclusive with each other although I think he would want that and I do not.
    I can say all great things about him here. But to make a long story short, I was at his house recently and we were watching videos on youtube before going out. He went to take a shower as I continued to watch the videos. Then when I typed one letter in the URL to go to another video, the entire drop-down menu opened up with addresses that he’s visited that had porn sites. It wasn’t just a few and now that I’ve been able to look twice, I see that it appears to be a regular thing for him to look at porn. We have sex weekly and he doesn’t come across as a sex-starved male in any way. I don’t have a problem with the thought of a man masturbating, but with all the porn that I saw, I feel very bothered by it. And what is bothering me more is the type of porn that he prefers (old, fat, ugly women..) So, to me it appears that he has a fetish in seeing old people have sex. Ok, so that’s not like if he was into child porn but for some reason, I am just irked at this.
    Part of me thinks that probably all men do this in one form or another and if he is a good man to me in every other way, then I shouldn’t be worried. But another part of me wonders how would I know if a man is actually addicted to it and would do it even if we were married (that would bother me).

    Should I approach him on this subject? That is so personal and would be hard for me to do. He could say to me what I would want to hear and even find a way to be more careful about covering his tracks. But then I will always wonder if he is still viewing it and wonder what is he thinking about when he is having sex with me.
    Now I am wondering if I should just stop seeing him and move on before we get too involved. It is getting close to that point so I need to decide how much I want to invest in this man and if I want to move things forward or not.
    What would most women do in my situation? I’d hate to throw away a potentially good relationship over something that may be something most people go through anyway.

  33.  #33marya on March 3, 2010 at 11:39 am

    Dear Caroline: Commend nr 5
    What you wite et me cy and cry.It was much mature love inside. would ask Gud to give so nice heart to accept what i can not change and stand for myself and what is good for my relationship because only then we can make the world beter place to live and help our men to be better human being.
    I have so much pain in my heart. I live with a man who is woman magnethe works in newspaper and write.he write soft stuff such knd that many women love.They feel he s lovely,inteligent,god and soft man and they love him.the problem is not just this,the problem is that he loves women.
    Some months after we were together i meniend that he has had some dep relationships with women in cisis,women who had missed their man,or had sik child,…and were in their needy situation in hier livesAll of these almost always when he had a girlfriend without her knowing anything about them.Her sister old me,he had law selfesteem as child and being the best for girlswas a way hecould fel himself better that oher boys,..so was in his grown life too,always a boy other boys were jelous of because women were as an around hi as honey(as he told me once i omend him),…
    I toled hi fro he begining that i would not accept im kissing other women and have near relationship with others,…he was very in lve with me then and said okey,…
    Now it is 7 years later.For two years ago we had a big discution about buying a sommerhouse together.I knew he had a ex girlfriend i bank and always ued the benefith of her for making loan ,,,so i asid i will do this if we both are in one bank and he do not use his benefith.He bacame angry.He bought the house with help fo he ex(all was hiden but i saw the letter she had writen for another bank and recommended him as the best client).After that he bacame angr of me,not to pay the money for this somer house,..furniture and so,….
    Some months later he was more mode,angry,had agains me,..i foud out hat he had contact online with a woman of twenty years before(they had a fair against her man for 20 years before).She wrote him,she is sad,she is ick,she need somebody o take care of her,her man does not give her sex,..wha kind of clothes he feel she has to hav to be sexy,,,and even send each other sms after being out and drink however she was in another country,,,i find these mails and told him i do not acept,he said he will move out,…but he did not,
    Now each night he sit with his pc,write e-mail,i hink maybe to her(I have seen some like this with two oher women both in needy situation,one has problem with addicted child,the other political but ha problem with her man,she write him about mjau,…jau,..fun,sex,sexy jokes,..).
    He hide al of these (their ontant)and say i am old thinking,he decide who he want o have contact with and everytime i say something,he say,…yu ontrol me,you come after me,you see my e-mail,…he talk to me as i am addicted to him,and here is he and his contact,….but he call me my dear,my girlfriend and become sad when i ay i do not want o be one of many but the only one,…
    I do not what to do,do i have to leave him,…. i woud so much to get control over myself and do as you caroline ,..but for him it is matter of his freedom,..

  34.  #34marya on March 3, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Dear Caroline: Commend nr 5
    What you write get me cry and cry.It was so much mature love inside. would ask Gud to give so nice heart to me to accept what i can not change and stand for myself and do what is good for my relationship because only then we can make the world better place to live and help our men to be better human being.
    I have so much pain in my heart. I live with a man who is woman magneth .He works in newspaper and write.He writes soft stuff such kind that many women love.They feel he is lovely,inteligent,good and soft man and they love him.The problem is not just this,the problem is that he loves women.
    Some months after we were together i mentiend that he has had some deep relationships with women in crisis,women who had missed their man,or had sick child,…and were in their needy situation in thier lives.All of these almost always when he had a girlfriend without her knowing anything about them.Her sister told me,he had law selfesteem as child and being the best for girls was a way he could feel himself better that other boys,..so was he in his grown life too,always a boy other boys were jealous of because women were always around him as ants around honey(as he told me once he talked open to me),…
    I toled him from the begining that i would not accept him kissing other women and have near relationship with others,…he was very in love with me then and said okey,…
    Now it is 7 years later.For two years ago we had a big discution about buying a sommerhouse together.I knew he had an ex girlfriend in bank and he always ued the benefit of her for making loan ,,,so i asid i will do this if we both culd be in the bank and he did not use his benefith and i would not make any business with help of his ex girlfriend.He bacame angry.He bought the house alone with help from the ex(all was hiden but i saw the letter she had writen for another bank and recommended him as the best client).After that he bacame angry of me,not to pay the money for this sommer house,..furniture and so,….
    Some months later he was more mode,angry,bad against me,..i found out that he had contact online with a woman of twenty years before(they had an afair against her man for 20 years before).She wrote him,she was sad,she was sick,she needed somebody to take care of her,her man does not give her sex,..what kind of clothes he thoght she had to have to be sexy,,,and even send each other sms after being out and drink however she was in another country,,,i find these mails and told him i do not accept,he said he will move out,…but he did not,
    Now each night he sit with his pc,write e-mail,i think maybe to her(I have seen some like this with two oher women both in needy situation,one has problem with addicted child,the other political but had problem with her man,she wrote him about mjau,…jau,..fun,sex,sexy jokes,..).
    He hide all of these (their contant)and say i am old thinking,he decide who he want to have contact with and everytime i say something,he say,…you control me,you come after me,you see my e-mail,…he talk to me as i am addicted to him,and here is he and his contact,….but he call me my dear,my girlfriend and become sad when i say i do not want to be one of many but the only one,…
    I do not know what to do,do i have to leave him,…. i would so much to get control over myself and do as you caroline ,..but for him it is matter of his freedom,..

  35.  #35Caroline on March 3, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    Marya, They all say it’s about their freedom. Sometimes, we just have to give them words to feel they are free and apart from us. I gave my man these words and when he’d do something for another woman. I told him that if it was okay for him, then it was okay for me to do the same with other men. If he was without commitment for me, then I just said, “Hey, we can mutually agree to use each other but I am putting you on notice that I am looking for the Man who is strong enough and committed enough to be totally, head-over-heels IN LOVE with me without a need for anyONE else. If I am not enough for you, you are NOT THAT Man! I really enjoy what we have and I would love for that Man to be YOU … BUT you’re NOT ready for ME to BE the ONE for YOU. I love you but when it is time and that Man walks into my life that’s it, this (You and Me) will be over. Period. No IFs, ANDs, or BUTs about it. I am worth keeping and I know it. Maybe we’re just not meant for each other and that is all. God has a perfect plan for each of us. Only the VERY Best will Do FOR Me because I AM GOD’s daughter!”

  36.  #36marya s. on March 4, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    It is like mentor talking to me ,thank you for your commend.It is really right.Sometimeswe try to change a man by telling him what he does is not good,or try to give him everything we have and sit again empty ,just ecause we are afraid to tell ourselves that we missed our respect for this man.That by seeing him do something like this i can not respect him and then not to feel genuine love i will give a man.I have been afraid telling myself this one.
    The other thing is feeling that you do see a man go so down to use metode like this in his life and we can stay high standard,accept him as he is and respect him as this.Maybe this is the only way if he ever would change himself.It is so hard to respect and accept a man who has so law stabdard for his own love.

  37.  #37Pam on March 4, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    I discovered my man of 1.5 years was also on a dating website after he propsed to me on Christmas Day. He was checking out profiles, checking a secret acct for email and had emailed a women back in August saying he liked her profile and wanted to get to know her more. This all happened 6 weeks ago and he just wants me to “forget it” as it didn’t mean anything – he was just doing it for the “rush”. I feel as if it really damaged our relationship. I want to walk but don’t. Trying to figure out why. I now have the Toxic Men Cd’s……He’s now doing all the right things (sometimes) but it feels empty. So frustrating. And so much more to the story. I love these posts. I read them every day. Any suggestions on how to use feeling messages 6 weeks later? I’ve let it go but it’s still there and I’m very very angry about. Not sure I trust myself to be calm and use feeling messages. Thanks.

  38.  #38Rori Raye on March 4, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    Pam, This is different from porn. This is actually contacting other women. This is a minefield. This is a serious red flag. I’m going to jump off into a post here…Love, Rori

  39.  #39marya s. on March 5, 2010 at 5:26 am

    I think it is so important that we rality orientate ourselves.As Caroline show however we also accept that this is not important they would not underestand something is wrong.If they have capacity to change they have to feel something is wrong.
    Asy man says:These are the problems you have made in your head.They mean nothing.And it is right.Playing with other womens feeling and emotions mean nothing to him,they are just news coming in his life to make it more colourfyll.But how long i say why you hide it,why you do not invite me to say hello to this woman,why you get chock when you see in facebook,me become friend with one of them)it was just to see his reaction,a kind of undrestanding him,why you get angry,..
    He says it is low status for you to know them….
    i think we women have not to take our status law and let our men have 1000 of these women in their facebook,or other places,send them e-mail on night when all energy get out of the relationship and we get superficial relationships because it is so modern to play emotional friend with so many other women,,…
    one of them asked my man;what do you like on me,red or black when i want to go out and meet other men,because my housband is so lazy and can not satisfy me,…
    it is not okey
    Thanks Rori for saying US;THIS IS NOT OKEY;:::

  40.  #40Pam on March 5, 2010 at 9:32 am

    Thanks Rori. I know in my heart that this is a toxic relationship but everytime I prepare to opt out, i find a reason to stay. I have your Toxic Men series and the Modern Siren. My guy rated Toxic (withdrawn, shows no affection etc) and since I’ve been using your tools I’ve noticed improvement but he only shows me attention briefly and quickly goes back to his old ways. I have been circular dating myself by taking yoga classes and really filling up my time with the things I love, but something keeps me in the relationship – lack of self esteem? And maybe the “treats” I get occasionally. I told him recently that I was feeling to vulnerable to continue to sleep together but I would still date him. That was a week ago and I’m pretty sure he thinks I won’t stick to my word so he’s not making a big deal about it. Do all men use the “It doesn’t mean anything I just like the rush” excuse when they are caught on something like a dating webise? It seems like the oldest excuse in America. Oh and here’s what else he said – “I felt good looking at other women’s profiles because it made me realize how lucky I am to have you”. Can you help me with an “opt out” speach? I’m tired of him walking around with a righteous attitude about what he did and me trying to forget it like it really doesn’t hurt when it really really does.

  41.  #41Caroline on March 5, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    Pam, I just want to say that you do not have to have an opt out speech. There comes a time, when words cannot reach him. It is time for action.

    I know it will hurt you much more than it will hurt him but he will not respect you until you begin to value and respect yourself above this. He does not perceive a valid threat in your argument because you stay even when you are being disrespected. You have the power to walk away out of respect for yourself. Personal boundaries and self-respect are the two biggest lessons I learned while dating my husband.

    From what I read, when you said you were circular dating, I get the feeling that even though you are, you’re not taking your focus off of him and drawing on or actually flirting with these circular dates. There are nice simple ways to flirt without seeming like you are trying to make someone jealous. It just takes one really good friendship with another man whom you enjoy, it does not matter what they look like, how old they are, or anything like that. You can flirt in an innocent fashion that draws the attention of every man in the room. Playfulness and joking without vulgarity or obscenity is the best approach. Ignore your man in the presence of others while quietly acknowledging his presence without drawing attention to him. Give your attention to everyone else in the room. Pretend he is a garment and you are dressed in his love. Do not remark on his observations of what he perceives as insecurity, just knod in acknowledgement, smile and begin a fun conversation with someone else nearby. If you are alone with him and there’s no one else to give your attention to, access your personal attributes in your mind while he is point out your flaws. Make a mental to do list such as, wow I need a manicure. LOL I found that if I spend too much time thinking about his critical observations of myself that I start believing it of myself. That’s the worst thing you can do. The most important thing you can do, is laugh. I know it sounds trivial but it seems to me most men just want to know that they can make you happy. If you are not laughing and having fun while you are with him, who are you laughing with? If you’re not happy or laughing or even singing around him, why do you think it is he, who is the one for you?

  42.  #42Pam on March 5, 2010 at 7:11 pm

    Caroline – thank you so much for your response. Tonight has been a complete disaster. Everything you said is correct. I always threaten to leave but I don’t. It happened tonight. I got the cold shoulder from him again and I finally said to myself I can’t take it any longer. So I calmly said to him that we were done, took my things from his house and as I was starting to leave, watched as he just sat by and was willing to just let me go. No conversation, no nothing. I then got pissed and could not help myself. In anger I said it was so typical of him to just stand by and say or do nothing and that was why I was done. Still no reaction. I started to cry because I was so hurt that he acted as if he didn’t care at all. I said “are you just going to sit there and let me leave” and he said “what do you want me to do Pam, what do you want me to do, hang on your ankles? I just got in my car and drove away. Now I just want to go over there and scream at him. I’m anxious and can’t focus and feel as if the world is ending. I hate it when I feel this way. I feel desperate. He now has the power and I need to get mine back. I’m working on it but right now it seems impossible. I think it’s the fear of being alone and I also have abandonment issues from childhood. I know what I should do but feel so stuck!

  43.  #43Daria on March 5, 2010 at 7:40 pm

    Pam – hugs! you Do have the power. And it sounds like you DID leave. Great!

    Now just to hug yourself and NOT go back there. Screaming “I FEEL SOOO ANGRY” in the car is a great Rori Raye tool I love

  44.  #44Pam on March 5, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    Daria – thanks! Since the last post he has called and said don’t I know how much he loves me and to stop being so dramatic. He wanted me to come back and talk and I said no – I was feeling tired and going to sleep. I have a feeling he is going to now come back as charming as possible and I have to find the strength to resist. Not easy but I have read just about every post on this blog and they give me the courage. Everyone is so amazing to share what they do. It feel like such girl power!

  45.  #45Caroline on March 5, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    That’s great, Pam. I’m proud of you and it may not feel like it but right now, you have the power. Now that he’s trying to come back, they all do when they feel like they can’t have something, they want it more than anything else. Give yourself time to breathe and regain your focus before you commit completely to walking away or going back. Be soft with him. Don’t harden yourself or you will lose him. It is good to vent your anger but don’t give him too much of that, it’s poisonous even to ourselves. Don’t melt right away but start drawing boundaries. I had to write mine down so that I would not spew too much anger and venom but with each thing I wrote, I expressed why I would not accept this or that behavior anymore based on how it made me feel. Everything that made me feel bad, cheap, used, disrespected, insecure, etc and I expressed what it was I thought he did that made me feel or react that way. Try not to blame. When I did this, it helped me to see the things that were me and my reactions, and the things that triggered those feelings. I did not share everything with him but one of the first things I did, was admit my own faults first followed up by something that he did that caused my reaction. Then I forgave myself and began taking care of and pampering myself. I treated myself as the single woman I was, as if I was secure in myself as a woman. I’ve become obsessed with painting my toe nails and primping. LOL While you are away from him, do these things for yourself. Once my man told me he needed some space to think and breathe that he felt we needed time apart so I said okay but while you think and breathe I am going out. I hope you feel better, I love you. And, I did. I spent 2 hours getting myself ready for my date (with God). We went to the movies but when he found out that I was going out, he wanted to see me. I was so hot when he came to the door. It was funny to see the expression on his face. He was adamant that he would not kiss me and asked me if I was going to kiss this guy. I told him that I never kiss on the first date. I bartered a kiss from him before he left because he wanted me to make him a deal not to call or text him for a whole day. I never told him that I went to the movies alone. When asked about my date, I said it was wonderful (because I imagine a date with God would be wonderful). I left it at that. He did express some animosity as if jealous but when I turned his own statements on him of insecurity, he quickly dropped it.

  46.  #46Caroline on March 5, 2010 at 10:33 pm

    One more thing. He does love you but right now he is just beginning to realize how much. He has lots of time to think while you are tired and sleeping. My man actually admitted later that he cried all night when he found that I was going out. He even accused me of being cold-hearted and not as deeply in love with him as he felt he was for me. I allowed that but said, you would not know how much you loved me if I had not. I also reminded him of his acts when led me, reminding him that actions speak louder than words and if you feel cheated because of it, I am sorry that you didn’t realize sooner what you were destroying with your playthings. I have since realized that my man likes me to be jealous but not obsessively so. He wants the freedom to go places with his friends without my calling him and asking him what he is doing and I gave it to him, as long as he can be committed to me without having to flirt with other women. Once he said, but I make them feel so good about themselves and I just want to help them. I said, if you want to help women to feel good about themselves then I have the perfect place (set up) for you so that you can get your ego stroked and they can be happier women, and I can get what I want too. He said, What or where is that? I said, you will love it and you can proud of your good charity. He laughed and said, alright where and what can I not do? I said, you can do whatever you want as long as you only visit this place and it’s Residents. Again, he said where? and I said, We have the perfect place right by our home, just down the road… it’s the nursing home. There are lots of women in there who need to feel sexy, loved, and desired. AND we laughed.

  47.  #47Pam on March 6, 2010 at 5:48 am

    Caroline – wow – your words spoke to me! Thank you so much. I believe in divine intervention and strongly feel that your message to me was from God. I am going to put your advice into play today AFTER I take my wonderful Yoga class, my loving dog for a walk and get a pedicure! (at which time I will write my list) I want to do the things that make me feel wonderful before I meet my guy so that I am feeling pampered and loved by myself. Hopefully that will “soften” me and empower me so that I speak from the heart while practicing strong surrender. I am slowly getting better at this and I do see amazing results when I do. Thank you again for taking the time to respond and share. Very, very powerful for me!!

  48.  #48Caroline on March 9, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    Something else that helped me through my journey is realizing that what he does is not my fault. It is our sinful nature that creates in us the desires of the flesh. As long as I took the time to stop and separate from him (in my mind) the sin from the man, I was able to continue to love him and forgive him but I had to stop making excuses for him, even to myself. I had to verbally acknowledge that he is weak and the only one who can help him is himself.

    For myself, I took my focus off of him and put it entirely on me and where I wanted to be and what I could do for myself (for me that was a closer walk with God). In doing that, I found what I consider some really good guidance…

    “Six Characteristics for a Potential Spouse” by Dennis Rainey: http://www.familylife.com/site/apps/nl/content3.asp?c=dnJHKLNnFoG&b=3584679&ct=4639461

    “How Do You Find A Mate?” by Alistair Begg: http://www.familylife.com/site/apps/nlnet/content.aspx?c=dnJHKLNnFoG&b=3587803&content_id={A9C3AA90-E472-45CF-B63E-406E4416B8D0}&notoc=1&printmode=1 (click the audio link, on the right, OR read the full transcript, at the bottom of the page)

    These were incredibly invaluable to me. In fact, the more I followed this, the more confident and independent I became.

  49.  #49Rori Raye on March 9, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    Caroline, Welcome, and I need to tell you – I don’t think I’m for you. Though I work with many Christian women, and adore and admire the positive messages from all religions – I do NOT agree with the first article – “Fear of God” is not only not in my vocabulary – it is something I would decidedly encourage you to rethink, and I don’t suppose you’d be interested in that. If God is not love, then I’m not interested. I do not wish to offend you – but you’ll find all kinds of references here to more new age ideas and goddess thinking, and I see things quite differently about most things than you might. I’m thrilled for you that you were able to detach from this man and move forward with your life, and that these articles inspired you and gave you confidence – and I’m for anything that works, and makes you think highly of yourself…so thank you for the links…there may be many here who would get good help and inspiration from them also. I just wanted to be straight-forward with you and let you know that I do not believe we have sinful natures, and that desires of the flesh are anything but God’s gift to us. In fact, if I slip and start to take things personally, I can feel quite triggered and offended by this kind of thinking and words, and I feel great that I don’t feel that here. I wish you well and hope you will find Tools here that you can agree with and that will work for you…Love, Rori

  50.  #50Sher on March 9, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    Hi Rori:

    Thank you for creating tools and teaching materials and a forum for discussing practicing healthy living.

    I know we each come from different pespectives, different experiences and different value systems, but the key that I’ve gotten from your series (which I continue listen to, on a rotating basis!) is that I need to know what I feel, what I’m comfortable with, what is acceptable to me. I’ve learned that ultimatums have no power, because they are empty. I’ve learned power speeches do have power, because of the feelings and decisions that back them up. It’s not about what someone else will do, it’s about how I want to live, and my ability to express that (through practice.)
    This particular topic thread has danced all over the place, but ultimately, it’s all about the same thing. Learning new patterns to obtain the results we want in life. It’s really simple, but easy to get distracted by the emotional intensity of our current experience.
    I have used your tools when interacting with women who have been difficult to work with or live with, and guess what? They work! I have used them with men, and they definitely work. The concept of sitting still long enough to know where I am in the moment, how I feel, what I want, that’s been the magic for me. To slow down and be present. Your tools on simply touching an object and connecting with it ( when I first heard it, I thought that was really stupid, for the record!) ended up being a life-changing tool for me.
    I grew up with a lot of screaming, and as an adult react to someone yelling or raising their voice by getting even louder than them to push down the fear. It embarrassed me to lose control, but it felt inevitable, even when I tried calm reasoning, logical conversation, or ultimatums. It always seemed to escalate or I would simply check out and not participate at all, which wasn’t helpful either.
    One day, it finally happened. After months of listening to your CDs, I had an aha moment. Instead of engaging in stirring up the volume during an argument with a business partner, I felt my heart pound, the sweat start under my armpits, and noticed it all. I started thinking about grounding myself by touching an object and I moved my fingers to feel the little hollows where your fingers go on the steering wheel, how soft the plastic was, the nubby texture, when I noticed that I was breathing deeper, feeling calm, and taking care of myself first, before I dealt with the discussion. What’s entertaining about this moment to me is my biz partner did not notice that there was anything going on or different at first, but when I didn’t shut him down or start arguing, and just looked at him with a neutral look while I was noticing all this other stuff, he completely stopped and asked me what was going on! I told him I felt bad when we argued, and asked him what he thought. And I didn’t say anything else until he responded to that. To say it was powerful, and an aha moment really doesn’t do it justice. It was an epiphany!!!!!! That was the first truly constructive discussion we’ve had to improve our business relationship, and the last time he has raised his voice to me. We are still business partners, and our friendship is growing, too!
    If I could tell your readers and the women posting here one thing, it’s this: it takes time and repetitive practice to really feel comfortable with Rori’s tools. To relax into who you are, to gain confidence in your feminine energy, to practice the tools in a stressful situation; it’s a challenge to undo a lifetime of training and cultural pressure. However, the first time I expressed my truth and emotions, honestly and without manipulations, and had a shockingly positive outcome, I was hooked! I love the freedom that comes with these tools, and encourage each of you that true change is possible.
    Rori, I could go on about how many ways your tools have effectively improved my life (including that I am getting my happily ever after and will be married in about forty days after 51 years of being single!), but I would be writing a much, much longer missive.
    I just wanted to thank you, Rori, for sharing ideas that really do work with practice, and to encourage everyone else out there to keep listening and keep practicing. And to not give up on your dreams of how you want to live.
    And for the Christian women in the house, of which I am one: I feel extremely sad over what is squashed out of us and the joy that is stolen from us in the name of God. We are told that we are set free in God’s love, and then bound right back up with judgement and expectations that take away our freedom again. I have come to know that God is love and I have found a deep abiding delight in choosing mercy over being right. And loving each other where we are at. I can’t begin to have all the answers, but it’s so much fun to explore and learn what I can.
    Happy journey.

  51.  #51Nuta on March 9, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    Hi Rori,

    My husband of 15 years and I had a very difficult last 1.5 year.

    During that time I found out that he has contacted his old “love” (his felling were never answered back then), to see if she would like to keep in touch. She never responded to him but I know that he still looks up on internet for information about her.

    What was also felt very painful is that besides porn addiction, it felt like an addiction (he never wanted to talk about it), he also contacted escort services. He says that he never actually dared to go there and every time called it of.

    Thank to your Tools (Reconnect , MS en your book) Rori I have learned what I could do for myself and for the relationship. And for about last 3 months things were going better and better.

    You could imagine how big of a shook I had when discovered that he was looking for escort services on internet. After confronting him about is he called me up a couple of hours later to talk. In big hoop to hear from him that he wants to do everything that takes and that he really wants me felt disappointed to hear that al yes he was wrong but it is up to me what I want. And he will leave if I will want that.
    During the conversation felt somehow disconnected from him and did not feel his full presence or “commitment”.

    We kind of made up and had a couple of oke days. A couple of days later even made love. Another couple of days later felt rejected by him when was making the advances (in the last year had the courage to approach him maybe only 3-4 times ). Felt really rejected, disappointed an frustrated. His “excuse ” was that we had a “conversation” that day and he was not ready yet and it was late.

    That was 2,5 weeks ago from now.

    What I found out now is that after calling me up 2,5 weeks ago and saying he was wrong bladiediebla ,later that day he actually called the services.

    Life felt like coming to a peaceful place in the last three months and now THIS.

    I feel so confused and don’t know what to do.
    He himself proficiently and financial is going thru a very difficult time and chances are he will lose his business with in a couple of months. I know that should not use it as an excuse for his behavior but feel very lost.

  52.  #52Rori Raye on March 9, 2010 at 7:14 pm

    Nuta -Welcome, and I’m so sorry for your pain. All I can tell you is that he is who he is, and his behavior is his own – and the question you have to ask is of yourself – “Do I want to be here?” If you are so afraid to leave him, then you’re stuck with him the way he is. He will not change. If you can leave him and start dating other men, or enjoy being alone – you actually might enjoy that for a bit – and then start dating and putting a new life together – that’s what I would do. Many women find themselves at this stage of life with a man who is changing – in not a way that’s good for them and the relationship. And there are all kinds of reasons for it – but bottom line – you get to decide what you want to do about YOU. Love, Rori

  53.  #53Nuta on March 10, 2010 at 3:25 am

    Rori thank you for your quick response. You are unbelievable. So much energy and time you give to people who write to you. I really appreciate your answer.

    You are right I am afraid to leave him. If I would leave because of his behavior that would feel like if I am a failure. Like if I am not magical enough to awake special felling in him towards me AGAIN. Not magical enough to awake the depth of feelings he used to have for me.

    And that felling of felling not enough hurts a lots. Feel so much pain.

    But on the other hand I could snap out of it. Like you say, he is probably not goanna change (not in the near future ) and I don’t feel like “waiting” for him anymore.

    Feel very scared about the future and how I would feel in the future. But what he does now is not good for me either . So decided to tell him today that I don’t want to go on like this.

    Feel really really scared for my hart.

  54.  #54Becky on March 25, 2010 at 9:33 am

    I am new to the site and unsure how to communicate through the computer. I hope I am doing this correctly.

    I can really relate to Caroline #5. The only difference is that my man has hardly touched me in 4 1/2 years. I have tried to speak to him about this but he just says he is having issues. He assures me that he loves me and we are great together in every other way. He says he desires no one else. I have tried and am still working through the porn thing. He says he is just looking and that it doesn’t mean anything (but it is everyday). He attempts to hide it from me. Also, I think he is chatting on line and receiving pictures from women on sex related chat areas. (I will soon get a friend to help me know for certain.)
    I have been completely faithful to him even tho my sexual needs are far from satisfied. I would just like to know why he isn’t having sex with me when he is obviously still interested in sex? He says it has nothing to do with me. I know that I am attractive to men because they let me know all the time. I am finally getting strong enough to walk away from him if that is what I need to finally do. He needs me a lot more than I need him. I just don’t want to walk away from a relationship for the wrong reasons. If I find out he is cheating, even on line, we are done. Thank you for any understading you can give me.

  55.  #55Rori Raye on March 25, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    Becky – Porn is all Tinque’s area of expertise – http://www.SexandHeart.com, and she’ll show up for you here, too. Here’s the hard part. You don’t get to sit around without sex for 4 1/2 years. His porn thing is beside the point. I say – and I think Tinque would agree with me – is porn is not a big deal unless it’s affecting your sex life. First – you have to get into sex with yourself, then you have to speak to him differently – from your heart in a different way, then you have to approach sex with him in a different way…and then…if none of that works — you need to find another man. Period. That’s it. I know you’re ready to hear this – and I know you’ll get lots of help around this here…Love, Rori

  56.  #56Caroline on March 26, 2010 at 10:07 pm

    It sounds like to me, you need to dress up and get ready to go somewhere to meet the man of your dreams. He’ll either come around or he won’t.

  57.  #57Alicia on March 26, 2010 at 11:42 pm

    Becky – wow, I would go to http://www.marriagetoday.org
    and look up the video they have on communicating about porn. And http://www.innerbonding.com helps with everything soooo soo soo much, there is an article on why people lie.. and understanding emotions. If he is lying he is afraid of your response. Both websites are really valuable.

  58.  #58Alicia on March 26, 2010 at 11:44 pm

    Becky actuallu http://www.marriagetoday.org and click on tv – that have excellent videos about communication and why men look at that and how to communicate about it. Also, http://www.innerbonding.com will help you feel good about you. They have amazing articles, the one on “why people lie” is awesome!

  59.  #59Lozzy on April 21, 2010 at 5:28 am

    Oh my God!

    I am so pleased to have found this blog & comments. I have been feeling as if I am going out of my mind! It is so good to know I am not alone.

    I have been getting yor emails Rori and they have helped me a lot. I am unable to buy your programmes as I am a single parent and have health issues that prevent me working currently so I am not up with a lot of what has been said, but what I do understand is amazing!

    My childs father was a very loving man who had a breakdown and ended up a narcissit and a sociopath. Not only did the relationship become emotinally abusive. He became a serial cheat, enabled with the internet!

    I spent 3 years alone, trying to recover from this when a close friend and I developed close feelings for one another. He has been cheated on and lost everything in the process of his marriage ending. He is kind, loving, caring and claims to be honest and in love with me. I am the only person other than his ex wife who he was with for 21 years he has told that to.

    So, imagine my horror when I found out he was using dating sites!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I have told him I do not like this at all and he told me he would stop and immediately removed his profile.

    However, he has been seen on 2 other sites by a friend of mine who is currently looking for her Mr. Right.

    I do not know what to do?? He obviously does not want me to know so is either wanting his cake & to eat it, or does not want to lose me. I know he has self esteem issues from being cheated on but to me that makes it worse! He knows how it feels! But he has lied to me, that makes me feel bad!

    I am so confused, he has made comments to me about having a family and getting married. He also wants us to live together.

    So what is up with this?

    I know I have issues with trust and was starting to believe I was overreacting!

    Thanks for having this post here. I am going to re read it all again, and follow some of the suggestions I understand as I haven’t read your material.

    Thanks everyone for sharing, I feel so much better now xx

  60.  #60Rori Raye on April 21, 2010 at 9:59 am

    Dear Lozzy – the problem with this man is not that he is not exclusive with you – but that he’s lying to you — also – a man who’s been cheated on LIKES a cheating woman!! It’s a love/hate thing – and you’re in the middle of it. Your job right now is to Circular Date and recover yourself. We’ll all help you here. Love, Rori

  61.  #61Jeannette on April 21, 2010 at 10:04 am

    Rori, I never heard of that…a man who has been cheated on like a cheating woman, it just does not make sense! When you’re horribly hurt, why in the world would you even want that again??!!

  62.  #62Lozzy on April 22, 2010 at 12:33 am


    Thanks Rori, I will try and do this. It feels as if that makes me as bad as him though! From what I have read I guess that is kind of how I should feel as this is not what we are told to do from birth.

    Jeannette, I hear you, but it also makes sense, he took her back various times over the time they were together after she did this over and over again.

    I guess if she hadn’t decided to go live with the current one it would be the same.

    Infact maybe when she sees the grass ain’t greener it will happen again? Though after 2 years maybe not?

    So circular dating. Do i dump him entirely and do this or just let him know we are not “exclusive” as I will not tolerate this behaviour and do this?


  63.  #63Dorothy on June 7, 2010 at 9:22 pm

    Dear Rori,
    I recently found your blog site and am so grateful to be able to read all these ladies stories about how the internet has affected their lives. I am in the middle of exactly the same type of situation. My common-law husband and I started working apart from each other over this last year because that is how the work was coming to us. It was working just fine for the majority of the time and then I noticed a change in his emails about what was happening in his life and about our business finances, which is where all my money was going. Turned out he had taken just about everything I had earned and invested it in buying gold in Ghana (biggest scam area in Africa) after he lied to me and told me he had only taken a couple of thousand out. He had to cash in a bunch of his stocks to put the money back. I will admit I did get angry and criticize him (probably should have had your program then). I still had a horrible gut feeling that there was more. One Sunday after I had put him on the plane and before I left to head back to my job I went into my computer, which I had allowed him to use, and there was a brand new email address that he had forgotten to erase. I remembered an old password that he had given me at one time so I tried it and there all the emails were. He was basically corresponding with one women, although it had started out with several. She was calling him her new-found husband and he was playing her right along. He had even convinced her to send him very explicit photos to go along with the very explicit talks they were having. I felt like someone had hit me in the stomach. I also discovered that he had signed up with another web-site and his username & password were both there. There were pages of women he was corresponding with there also. Interestingly he had chosen women in his own age group, which in a way bothered me because it definitely is looking as if he is trying to find a new wife before he decides he’s going to announce that this one is over. Of course his profile is a lie starting with his own age and then progressing into his “great family values”, etc. He has narrowed his search down to one woman right here in our city and it looks like they phone each other almost nightly. Sounds like she is really excited about finally meeting him next time he will be home in a week from now. I did actually catch him one night on-line and all he had to say was “I do this because it’s fun and that’s all the rest of the people on here are doing it for”, “I don’t feel the same about myself around you any more and I don’t feel the same about you”, “I’m going through some changes in my life and I need to figure them out”. I told him if he wanted to be free to go after these women he was, but he immediately said no. Then he refused to talk about anything further. I still keep getting this urge to level the playing field and tell all of them the truth by using the email addresses left on his 2 sites, but I haven’t. The only time he emails me or phones me is to tell me about new job offers he has gotten. Thank you Rori for your Siren advice because hard as it has been, I haven’t called him or emailed him for any other reason. I do miss him and all the times that we phoned each other or emailed each other…I just feel soooo sad right now which is what my counselor tells me I need to feel, but I’m so tired of this. I’m 57 and my husband is 62. That is what seems so stupid in this situation. I’d love to hear back from anyone because I know I need help.

  64.  #64Rori Raye on June 7, 2010 at 9:34 pm

    Dorothy, Welcome, and I’m so glad you have a counselor…I don’t clearly know what I would tell you to do here…if you still love him and want to see if there’s anything left – I won’t try to stop you – but at 57 -there are plenty of men who would love to be with you – while he “figures himself out.” I personally would not be able to ever again look at a man who’s lied to me and open up to him with respect. Love, Rori

  65.  #65Dorothy on June 7, 2010 at 9:39 pm

    PS: Further to my long letter I just wanted to clarify that I have been to see a lawyer and one of the things she suggested to me was not to let him know that I have been into his email sites. She told me to make a legal file of everything that is going on as well as copies of all our financial information, which I have and have taken to someone else’s place for safe-keeping in case I need it.

  66.  #66Dorothy on June 10, 2010 at 6:32 am

    Dear Rori,
    Thanks again for your very honest comments. I’ve been reading this particular blog over and over, and have become stronger and stronger each day by doing so. I’m actually almost glad that he is gone for 3 weeks at a time because that has also helped to gain my strength and resolve back. I have read your Siren suggestions and the Toxic man hints (wish you had ebooks on these as well as the CDs/DVDs since I don’t have the money or time left before he returns to order them and have them incorporated into my mind and heart), and have started to put them into practice. I realized that I have always been able to talk to men; I’ve just been forgetting that fact when it came to my husband. I’ve started walking around telling myself that I am the Goddess and the Prize, and I am worthy of the best. The last statement feels a little strange to me inside, but that’s telling me that I haven’t learned to set boundaries. A little scary at my age. I will admit that right now my one addiction in life, smoking, has increased and that does bother me since I was really starting to make headway towards quitting…the old friend I turn to in times of stress. My request right now is any suggestions/tools I can try next week when he comes home. I’ve thought of just staying quiet and seeing what he has to say, or telling him that I feel very nervous when he’s around because it reminds me once again of dealing with an active alcoholic (walking on egg shells), which my first husband was. I remember him saying to me many years ago that he was glad I wasn’t in his life when he was a full-blown alcoholic (might even remind him of that conversation).

  67.  #67Carolyn on June 24, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    I was matched with a man on a dating website 9 months ago and we fell madly in love. The first two months were wonderful. He was attentive and romantic and made it clear to my child and me that he wanted to be in our lives. Then he began to disappear. I figured out that he was drinking heavily. He was having severe money problems – and asking me to lend him money. After a rough few months he came back seemingly fully committed to the relationship. However, we didnt see each other with great frequency and he stopped coming over when my child was at home. I had been paying his phone bill and on a hunch checked his phone records and found that he was communicating via text and calls with seven or eight women. When I confronted him about it, he told me that they were just friends in need of help and that he would never have an affair. He loved me and wanted to have a future with me. One day he just disappeared – for two months. I was absolutely devastated and mourned the relationship and began to move on. He called me a few weeks ago and told me that he wants to try again. He explained to me that his drinking and depression had gotten out of hand and he had simply faded from my life, but that he was getting his act together and would never do that again. He is in daily contact with me via text, but sees me infrequently and we speak only once or twice a week. I believe that he is still drinking heavily but trying to cover it up. Although his communication with other women has decreased significantly, it is still taking place. I love this very troubled man and believe that he really does love me, but that communicating with these women feeds his ego, and he has incredibly low self-esteem. He is a good man, however I believe that he is consumed with alcoholism and depression. I just don’t know what to do. I know that I cannot save him. I really like him as a person and would love to have this relationship work. Please help.

  68.  #68Rori Raye on June 26, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    Carolyn – so sorry – and what he is and what you’re in is the very definition of TOXIC. Please find a CODA meeting near you, or Alanon – this is the work you need to do. I would love it if I could make this man fade from your mind instantly – and I know this is the work YOU need to do….Love, Rori

  69.  #69Amy on July 7, 2010 at 3:35 am


    I met my fiance online on a dating website. Two months after we were engaged, I found that he sent an email with pictures attached to another woman. When I confonted him, he said that he loved me, didn’t want to lose me, wanted a life with me, etc.
    I installed spyware on his computer to ensure I wasn’t making a mistake marrying him. I felt horrible about this but I had to know….
    Occassionally I go ito his email and I found that he has added more woen as ‘contacts’ and instant messages them.
    This sounds crazy, right? Why am I still with this guy?
    We are now at a standstill. He told me the same song & dance he told me before, and that he will ‘end’ this behavior.
    I have started pulling back and want to know what else I should do. I am terribly hurt. I love him but I don’t want a marriage with a cheater.

  70.  #70Rori Raye on July 8, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    Amy, Welcome – and if this is not something you can tolerate and be okay with (I wouldn’t) then end it now – he won’t change. Love, Rori

  71.  #71Sher on July 9, 2010 at 2:58 am

    To everyone reading and hanging on to a toxic man: BELIEVE IN YOURSELF. Rori is absolutely right, do the work you need to do on you, and a toxic man can’t possibly be appealing to you. It was somehow easier to have him be the focus, his needs, issues, behavior, than to face the reality that I invited those problems into my life by accepting them and ignoring my own. (I fell for a married man who was ‘separated’, and the cesspool I fell into was really about my own beliefs about myself, what I deserved, what I would tolerate.)
    This is the most amazing discovery of all — if a toxic man completes me, then I must have toxicity of my own to face and heal. It was an extremely difficult thing to comprehend on a profound emotional level, but the easiest thing to do when I truly decided I was ready to have a healthy, loving, truth-embracing life: I didn’t like everything Rori recommended, and I didn’t like the fact that it wasn’t HIM, it was ME who was creating the pain and chaos in my life by INVITING it. Ouch ouch ouch.
    Rather than using all my strength and energy (and anyone reading this who struggles with a toxic guy has lots of it) to deal with his issues, I used Rori’s tools; listened to the CDs over and over again until they overcame old beliefs about me and love and what was acceptable to me; I prayed, I wrote, I read books on healing and HIGHLY recommend “Love What Is” by Byron Katy.
    This book is about facing truth, and our role in what we invite into our lives. By doing the very simple steps, it opens the door to acceptance: this is truly the way my man is: a liar, a cheat, a drunk, whatever, and I accept him the way he is – without expectation of change. With that acceptance comes understanding, I am attracted to his problems because he helps me avoid my own. Is that how I wish to continue to live? If yes, move on. If no, then the first action step is to remove him from my life.
    I want to express that this was not easy: it took me six months of listening to Rori DAILY and writing DAILY and reading Love What Is and doing the exercises, along with other books and resources on line, to get to where I was ready to let go. But the day I did, I really did. It wasn’t an act to manipulate him to change, it didn’t require him to do anything, there was no ultimatum or discussion about it, I was done.
    If I could give each of you who struggle with a toxic man an extra boost of encouragement, I would. It’s a personal journey, and sometimes staying “stuck” is truly preferred. It has been a three year journey to get to where I am now (just recently married to a wonderful, loving man who is generous, trustworthy, committed, my life partner.) Had I not done the work, followed the steps, believed in Rori on days when I could not believe in myself, I would likely still be stuck in an affair, taking crumbs from another woman’s plate, hating myself but addicted to the emotional energy and sexual intensity (the wins for me.)
    What started a few years ago as a glimmer of hope has now become a way of life. I am a Siren for my husband, I am living the life I dreamed of, and I continue to do the work on MYSELF to improve my attitude, behavior and quality of life. My husband is also interested in learning and growing, and we do that together.
    Wishing you all every good thing. You CAN have the desires of your heart, in a loving healthy way.

  72.  #72Rori Raye on July 9, 2010 at 9:14 am

    Sher – BRAVA to you and thank you so much for your story! Love, Rori

  73.  #73Dorit on July 14, 2010 at 11:36 pm

    Thanks, gals, for letting me know I’m normal! I thought I was over-reacting when my sister caught my fiance joining a singles’ site on FB. I confronted him; he has since then removed all single women from his FB and deleted all (that he can remember) his profiles on dating sites. We did get married. BUT! I still don’t feel that I can trust him. I have some kind of nagging suspicion in the back of my mind. I’m constantly checking the computer history to see what he’s been up to. What’s made it worse is that I did find something “inappropriate” that he had viewed online. He claims it was an accident. Yeah, right! And he had previously given me his email password but has since changed it and refuses to tell me the password. I want to trust my husband. I don’t want to push him away with my suspicions. How can I get myself to trust him again? And when should I listen to my gut feelings? And, btw, he, too, like the other men mentioned has low self-esteem. Is there a pattern here with men who have low self-esteem and internet addictions? P.S. glad i found your website.

  74.  #74Rori Raye on July 15, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    Dorit – Welcome…and go visit Tinque at SexandHeart.com….Trust is a weird thing…if you don’t trust, you can’t have a relationship. He has to FEEL trusted in order to want to be trustworthy. I don’t think you have any choice but to trust 100% and see what kind of husband he turns out to be. YOU can RAISE his self-esteem by respecting him and trusting him…There’s really no other way…Love, Rori

  75.  #75Rori Raye on August 19, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    Odette, Sorry I’m slow on moderating, and you automatically go there the first time…The thing here is to really, really ask yourself what you want, what you can accept, what you don’t want. If you want this man with all his faults (that you will NOT be able to change) – then let him do what he does, and you enjoy him and the relationship as is. If you’d rather have a simpler man who just wants to be with you – but he might not entrance you the way this one does – then please stop being exclusive with this man and Circular Date! Love, Rori

  76.  #76joy on September 16, 2010 at 6:14 pm

    Well I know exactly how you feel. My boyfriend and I go back many years. 20 some yrs later we get together. We started talking dirty to each other months before we actually even seen each other. When we moved in together, I like to watch porn, I didnt know they had all these if-kbook.com, livejasmine, email me and we can meet in 15 min. sites. I dont like the chatting, The dirty conversations he has with other women. When I mentioned it and it didnt stop, It has now put a wall between us. I LOVE HIM with all that I am, For I dont know how to overcome this, Just because I do think men will get caught up in the heat of the moment and stray. Which he says he wont, But then he gets off work and still takes 2, 3, 4,5 hrs to get home. So how do I handle this. Im not into swinging, And he has always been. So yes its definitely now has full control over my brain, And I hate it. My email address he made for me.

  77.  #77Donna on September 30, 2010 at 6:33 am

    This will probably be long.
    Hi, I have spent days reading through so many posts. Wow is all I can say.
    I have recently been through this and the pain is just unbearable at time. My relationship was only 10 months old, but we had grown very close, and his family just loved me, vice versa. The only thing different that I did was that I basically burned all bridges.
    On Aug. 31 I signed in to my yahoo messenger. My ex was using this computer when he was here, but he had been back at home. Well, the little email box popped open and I realized it was his email. This had happened in the past and I usually just closed it out.
    What I saw, this time, made me look. There were responses from Craigslist people. I looked in his sent mail, nothing there. I looked in his trash and there were 3 sent emails from him responding to CL ads that people had posted. One of his emails was to a couple looking for a 3some. He noted that he was “on the line here”, that he had done this with a couple a few years back. That he was looking for some excitement in his life (this was a Tuesday and I had just left his house 2 days earlier, and was planning to go back on Thursday-we are about 2 1/2 hours apart but spent alot of time together). He also said that he was feeling a bit “bashful” about it. The other two emails were i’m assuming to individual women. Each email had pictures attached from his computer. One had 3 pictures and the other two emails had 1 picture.
    So, this is what I did. I forwarded the emails to my email, and then I forwarded them back to him, letting him know that I was sorry I could not provide the excitement he was looking for and pretty much to take a hike. I shut off my phone after that. There were emails and texts the next day telling me that his computer had been hacked and someone sent those emails (YEAH RIGHT). I ignored them. Three days later he texted me again. The emails between us started up, and I must say, I said things that I have never said to anyone before. I was so mean, but at the time I just could not help myself. And honestly, I think he deserved it. He never apologized and just kept using the hack/spam defense. I’m a pretty smart woman. Probably smarter than he is. I had three of my computer friends look at the emails also, and they verified they were not a hack/spam job.
    But, what I found just makes me sick. He has hundreds of Craigslist personals email addresses saved in his other email address address book. HUNDREDS! He is signed up on a porn site using a females name (that he went to school with or is friends with) but using his address information and his email address. How awful is that to use some poor womans name to sign up for a porn site. It’s not the regular (I’m not sure what the regular is with porn) type of porn that he has bookmarked. He has all the interracial porn, gang bang, threesome, and some young and teen. I am just completely sickened. So, basically, hence the names I called him. I am ashamed at myself for allowing myself to even get caught up in the fighting and name calling. I was completely out of control. I wish from that very moment that I never responded back at all, because, for some stupid reason, I am left feeling even worse. Now he has something to blame me for. He had actually told me that he didn’t want to see me anymore because of the things I said to him, and that he could not believe I would think he could do such a thing.
    I truly believe that he has a BIG problem and that he will never change without some serious help. But, since he will never admit to what he did, and how much devastation it caused, he will never seek that help. One of the hardest things for me to deal with, is the wondering if he feels any guilt or remorse at all. I was in his life, we had future plans, his mother and family loved me. We saw a future together.
    His sister wrote me on Facebook last week. At first we just talked about his mom. I didn’t bring up his name at all. She told me that his mother is extremely hurt but she doesn’t dare bring it up to him (YES HE STILL LIVES WITH HIS MOTHER AND HE JUST TURNED 34-I KNOW I KNOW).
    His sister then asked me what happened, as I guess noone there is getting any answers. So, I told her. I did not do it in a way of bashing him, but did let her know what he did was extremely devastating, that he will not admit it, and that I believe he needs some serious help. WHICH I DO!
    Well, his sister wrote back to me telling me that she was going to discuss it with him because she felt it needed to be addressed. She then wrote back to me telling me that she only told him that she knew what happened, She said that she didn’t know what to think (BUT I DID SEND HER THE EMAILS SO SHE KNOWS I’M NOT FABRICATING ANYTHING), and that he keeps everything inside, and that he was suffering greatly without me there, she said he said that. But yet, he cannot find it in himself to be honest. Yes, I’m sure this kind of addiction comes with much shame. But, when you know you have completely hurt the person that you love, or say that you love, it’s time to come clean.
    Now, when I think about it, the red flags were there from the beginning. A little history:
    We had known each other, online and phone, for a little over a year as we were in a stock trading group together. Last year he had back surgery for a serious back injury. He had a total fusion. We started seeing each other at the beginning of last November. We clicked right away. However, I do believe he suffers from ADHD or OCD, probably both. But, he was sweet, kind, attentive, loving, always wanted to see me. He came and spent the Xmas holidays with me. That is when he told me that he loved me and wanted to be with me forever. Well, a little fast, but I went with the flow. At this point he was coming here. I knew he lived with his mom, his father had passed many years ago. I guess because of his back issues, as well as his mom being alone, I was more understanding of this. Well, for NYE I had wanted to do something, but, because of his back, making a 2 1/2 hour trip back here was just to much for him. I was upset, but did understand. He came the following week. When he was here he left his email open and there was an email from a woman, so I looked. I scrolled down it and there were emails to her around the Xmas holiday, telling her that he had to spend the holidays at a clients house, and that he would be thinking of her all day. I was crushed. I confronted him. He said that he had been talking to her for a few months, that there was nothing there. That he felt bad for her because her grandfather had died, that she had low self esteem and he didn’t want to hurt her feelings, that he wanted to be with me. It appears in the email that he did show up at her house on NYE but she was not receptive to him. He said it was a spur of the moment thing and that there was nothing romantic involved. He told me that he did not realize that we were exclusive. But I clearly remember asking him, only weeks before, where we stood, if he was going to be seeing other people, he said no, I would be the first to know. I let it go, feeling that maybe I was expecting to much so early on. But I did tell him I did not want to be sexual with him anymore if he was seeing other people also. He said he was not, that I was the one he wanted to be with.
    Then in March he came over and when he got here he had asked me if I had anyone in my past that I was still interested in, if I would leave him for that person. I said no. I guess he had heard that his ex of 3 or so years had married her old school sweetheart. The thing is that he and she were on/off, and when she left, she just left the state without telling him. NOW I WONDER WHY!!!!
    So, sitting at his house one day in April, he received an email from his ex. I asked him to open it in front of me and he did. She told him to leave her alone, stop bothering her, and to go see a shrink. He had emailed her asking her why she wasted so much of his time. I was very upset. Why would something like that bother him when he was supposedly happy with me, we were a couple, why would he care? He knew I was hurt about it. So, I let it go. STUPID.
    All these red flags were there.
    I feel so stupid. I KNOW i’m not stupid, but that is how I feel.
    I was so mean to him in the end. I think that bothers me that i could be that way. I wish I had taken the high ground. I was also very upset because I had let him trade my stock account, we were doing it together. He was buying stocks that I asked him not to buy. I would put sells in on the highs, where I had a NICE profit, and he would take them out. He told me not to worry, that he would make sure I ended up ok. Well, my account is down much more than when he started, where as it would have been almost triple had he not taken my sells out. I also contacted him and told him what he did to me financially, not to mention emotionally, was just awful and that he should step up and keep his word. Of course I have not heard from him…don’t plan on it. I don’t think he can handle the idea of anyone knowing his dirty secrets.
    I’m sorry this is so long!
    Thanks for listening.

  78.  #78Donna on September 30, 2010 at 7:31 am

    And one of the things that bothers me the most is that his back surgery was a failure. He is now loaded up on morphine daily. We were trying to look for alternatives, as at his age, he cannot spend the rest of his life on morphine. The sad thing is that he could not do alot of things. He could not be out for long periods of time. I rearranged my life, I was understanding. But I didn’t feel as if I was missing out on anything, because I could do things if I wanted. With the situation he is in, he was obviously not very grateful to have someone in his life that was understanding and was there for him, even knowing that the future could be very bumpy, health wise for him. He is not going to find anyone like me again. I can assure you that.
    Other red flags, the way he talks to his mother. He seemed to be getting more and more comfortable snapping at her in front of me. I assume that is the way I would have been talked to in the future.

  79.  #79Joy on October 6, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    Trust me. When you meet one of these types of men, the best thing you could ever do for yourself is to RUN as far and fast away from him as you possibly can! Do not think twice. Do not make excuses for him. Do not tell yourself that he will or can change. HE CAN’T. This IS WHO HE IS. They don’t know love. All they know is their sick twisted version of love. They will use you and bleed you until you have nothing left except regrets. Irregardless of who his family is. He is who HE IS. You either love HIM just as HE IS… Or RUN, don’t walk, especially if you are a compassionate soul. Don’t listen to any arguments about why or how much he loves you. He’ll suck you in to cespool. I repeat, RUN!! NUR. RUN.

  80.  #80Marsha on November 8, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    Hi Rori!

    I met a man on a dating site back in early September. We emailed and talked over the phone for a month before meeting. At first neither of us were interested in each other. Or at least I wasn’t because of all the things he was telling me about the women he was meeting.

    Three weeks ago he was in town (after a date with some woman) and he called me to go meet him for coffee. I went but only because I wanted to see who I had been talking to all this time.

    Since then we have been seeing each other every weekend (we live an hour apart). He says he wants to try for a relationship with me.

    One of the things he had told me is that he has a FWB, that he says he only “visits” when he’s not with any other woman.

    I had a talk with him about how I feel about FWB (which is that I’m uncomfortable with a man keeping contact with any FWB’s) and he responded by saying “how do I stop talking to someone I’m sexually attracted to?”

    I had no answer. I still don’t have an answer.

    I think when two people are FWB that they do form a type of bond to some extent. I really don’t know what to think or how to feel about his response.

    I guess if he’s really interested in me and wants to give it a chance then he needs to cut her off? Why would he need her otherwise?

    He was logging into the dating site chatting with other women until last week when I got a message from a woman on that site saying that he was pursuing her pretty hard and had told her if it wasn’t for me he’d meet her in a heart beat. I showed him the message. He says he never said that to her. He says she was the one pursuing him. She has since deleted her profile and he hasn’t logged on since Nov.4/2010.

    At first he said he wants a relationship but just doesn’t know if he’s ready, then tells me he is willing to give it a try. I will say that my gut feeling is not a really good one at times. I do have trust issues as well, which comes from being cheated on in past relationships. My mind is going in circles about this FWB thing. How do I know if he’s “visiting” her or not? I don’t. And how long to keep seeing him? If he’s not ready for a relationship (age 46 btw) then I don’t want to keep seeing him. I will only become more attached and end up getting hurt even more.

  81.  #81Diana on November 21, 2010 at 2:59 am

    This story brought me so much pain back. I thought I was healed but obviously am not. And yes it’s not him that I am angry with, it’s ME, for letting him get away with it and let me waste my life.
    I met my ex boyfriend online when he told me he was divordced with 2 kids living with their mother. I made a huge step moving to his country because I wanted to and got a job there. But before I came he told me this huge lie about his wife and kids losing their house and him having to ‘shelter’ them for a while so there was no way I could come and live with him.
    After a couple of months of suspicious events in that country, UK, he told me he was married, but started making excuses that he’s leaving and so on and cried he loved me, that their marriage was over a long time ago and so on. I found out his online passwords and dug up a whole can of worms: he had profiles on every dating site in the world, chatting up women all day long and sometimes nights, that’s why he was always online ‘for me’ because that was his life.
    I got so angry but at the same time so sad, I was dead on the inside and couldn’t stop crying,told him I break up and he moved in with me. For a month. Until his parents and wife took him back putting a lot of pressure on him and blackmailing with his kids.
    He was a mess when he came to collect his stuff, uncontrollably crying , shaking, sweating, telling me he loved me but ‘having to bear his cross’ and wishing me to find ‘a good man’.
    A month later he was calling again, crying, promising the world. In the meantime he had lost his job and started promising that when he gets a new one he’s be with me.
    I was lonely here in this country and we had so much fun, great sex, he pampered me and took me everywhere and that made me happy, he was helping me with my problems. I believed like a fool he loved me (like that could be called ‘love’!).
    And I waited for him to get a job. For 2 years. Closing my options. Unable to open my heart to anybody. I tried to date and met a couple of men, nice, rich, generous, but they were not him so I didn’t give themmuch of a chance. When meeting them I felt all cold inside and my obsession was where is he? And I knew he was playing online in a virtual avatar world, and developed some ‘love’ relations with women from the other end of the world, told him about it , he said it’s just a game, but it was not, on the online world they were a couple. I was angry and hurt and crying nights and unable to meet other men for my heart was closed. And he was having a nice time with his family (who believed him it was over with me) and at the same time with his online fantasy.
    2 years later he moved in with me, this summer. He was nothing like the man I thought. I guess he also went on internet addiction withdrawal for he deleted all his online accounts (althought I found out there was one still active but he couldn’t ‘play’ for I was with him all the time) and he turned from being this laughing, generous, active man into a whining wreck, angry, screaming and complaining all the time. His wife knew this time he was gone for good for he told her and she kept on texting and leaving mailvoice messages cursing and threatening and blackmailing with his children and pressuring him to contact his family. I felt like I had kidnapped a kid for the person I found myself living with was deffinitely no man.
    Even sex which had always been great, started to lose the power and I found myself all tied up in knots about his lack of setting boundaries with his wife and about the way he started rejecting even my kisses when I came home on the pretext that he was ‘doing something’ (once he was ironing, once he was playing a game on computer) that I told him if things dont change he’ll have to leave.
    Then one evening all hell broke lose. We were in a restaurant and I asked if there are any more txts from his wife and he started joking about it and waving his phone in front of me. That’s when I stood up and left him there. He followed me shortly and found me home in bed. He jumped on me , started hitting me with all pillows he couls find, grabbed my wrists and started shaking me screaming’How DARE you embarrass me like that and leave me there’. Neighbours called the police and he was taken away for the night. The next day while I was at work he came back took his things and left.
    Now he’s back with his wife and back online playing in his immaginary world and back emailing me saying he wanted to make things work but it’s me who ruined it for I gave him a criminal record ‘for nothing’.
    And I feelso empty and sad and try to cope and move on. I lost 4 years with this delusion of love , I am 38 and desperate to get a good man and have a child and I am afraid that might never happen.
    I bought your ebook, Rori, and found it very uplifting and will start using the programme and the tools. Trouble is I still feel vulnerable when it comes to him and even if this time I feel like the door had already been closed in his face in my heart, I still have that small hope that he’d be back. But I guess that’s just the war I want to win with his wife, which is not a healthy thing.
    I feel a bit lost now and I know it takes a lot of courage.
    And I need to start feeling comfortable around men again. I just don’t want to feel pressured to sleep with them until I find the right one. How can I do that? How can I date and still keep them at arm’s lenght until I find him without creating any hard feelings?

  82.  #82Rori Raye on November 21, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    Diana – my Toxic Men program is for you – you’ll understand why you’re choosing all this misery. You can change it – but you have to drop him totally and just replace his memory slowly with other great men. Love, Rori

  83.  #83Diana on November 22, 2010 at 10:51 am

    Thank you, Rori, I already found so much good information on this website of yours!! I have started the circular dating ball rolling.

  84.  #84kofybean on December 6, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    You girls are so screwed up in the head. And in need of some serious therapy. I do believe every article in here is either contradictory to another article in here, or complete double standard (bias).

    One topic you stress how much a woman needs to have multiple guys to fck at the same time, how its her body, and her choice, and that, I quote,

    “A woman doing what she wants is not about ‘hurting people.’
    No one owns a woman’s body but herself. Therefore she can do what she wants with it. She is not responsible to sacrifice her own feelings (and wants and desires) for the feelings of other people. that would be hurting HERSELF. which is a nono

    But you don’t want him to watch porn? Talk to other women? Have FWB’s?? It hurts you, he needs to change??? Cage him, control him…

    Watch this,

    “A man doing what he wants is not about ‘hurting people.’ No one owns a man’s body but himself. Therefore he can do what he wants with it. He is not responsible to sacrifice his own feelings (and wants and desires) for the feelings of other people. that would be hurting HISSELF. which is a nono”

    Deal with it!

  85.  #85Ros on January 2, 2011 at 11:04 am

    I think I posted this message on the wrong section, so I’ll now also post it here:

    Dear Rori,
    just a quick note to ask for some feedback. I was going out with a guy, for about 3 months, things were starting to grow or so he said that he felt every time we met our relationship was going a layer deeper. Then I found out he was encountering men through websites for casual sex, as well as women whom he referred to as friends but with whom I suspect he also had sex (at least one of them).
    When I faced him about his promiscuity with men (and probably women) he told me he felt vulnerable. I told him too I felt vulnerable. He seemed to stay closer to me for a while and said that what I found out had made him feel closer to me.
    However I asked him to have an hiv test and I also said I would have one. 2 week later he pulled out of the relationship under the excuse he felt no chemistry and that he didn’t feel bonded and that he was not motivated.
    I am still shocked by all that happened and I have been feeling very angry. I hope I have learnt something from this experience, but I also feel powerless (even guilty at times) and wonder why this happened to me.
    Is it that my views are not open enough? Or that it is ok for a guy to have an exclusive secret to himself (not even his ex wife knew about that?). He told me that that was his secret and that it was like doing drugs, and that that was part of him.
    Any help would be great, especially because my heart currently feels stalled.
    thanks for your help in advance

  86.  #86Rori Raye on January 2, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Ros – Men who are bisexual – and there may be new research around this…but from the research I did a while back – tend not to be as “fluid” as women who are bisexual. Oops – going long here, turning this into a post….Love, Rori And, for both, there are many who are smack in the middle of the scale (Anne Heche, Anna Pacquin, Angelina Jolie…perhaps, I’m only guessing..) who have ‘fallen in love” with men and women both…and go through “phases” – but much more often, the “romantic,” “forever love” (as opposed to mere eroticism and friendship) seems to fall on one side of the scale or the other. In other words – he may have been more “gay” than bisexual. And there IS a difference, merely if you think of it all as a “scale” – like the “Klein Scale.” Or even the “Kinsey Scale.” What you need to ask yourself is “Why was I there, exclusively?”

  87.  #87Ros on January 2, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    Thanks Rori,
    I only knew he was bisexual in the last 2 weeks of our relationship and felt very confused and shocked. He possibly felt too.
    I know that that is not the ideal type of man I am looking for so clearly it is better that the relationship has been stopped, and wondered indeed if he broke it because he felt ashamed, but also because he wanted to protect me. He said he did not want to be accountable for and that he felt shy about having sex with me now I knew.
    He however has a string of relationships with women and talks about himself as a dater who never falls in love, with whom however all women fall in love. Though he did have at least 3 important relationships with women in his life, including the one with his wife. He only meets men promiscuously and casually for sex, not for relationships. He says he can only kiss and hold and feel close to women, and that sex with men only gives him the rawness and animal pleasures he cannot get with women.
    What hurts is that he will carry on dating women in a dishonest way and putting his and their health at risk. As he put mine: I know for a fact he met sexually a man one afternoon, and that the same evening he was with me and that was actually our very first love making encounter after 1 month he had dated and courted me. This makes me very angry, as for the first time in my life I felt compelled to take an hiv test. I also felt (afterwards) I had been taken for a ride from the start. All that had had a meaning (at least for me) was not real.
    But yes, the real question is ‘why would I have stayed exclusively with him’ … though I don’t know really how long for, had he not broken the relationship. Perhaps low self-esteem? I do not really have an answer. I am still shocked and confused!

    Thanks for your help….I am reading your ‘Make him fall for you’…a lovely and loving book. But possibly in this instance, with that guy, making him fall for me would have been impossible in any case?

  88.  #88Beth on January 3, 2011 at 9:06 am

    Hi – I’ve been reading your letters that come to my inbox and felt compelled to comment on this issue.
    I recently ended a 7 month relationship with a man I thought was good for me. He’s 56, I’m 48. We had lots in common, really good times together and he said he loved me.
    This man is a flirt, which doesn’t bother me much. It’s the fact that he did it with EVERY attractive woman he came in contact with. To the point of totally ignoring me at parties, commenting on other women’s physical attributes, literally stopping to turn and stare at women, saying hello very suggestively to total strangers. It was always there, but started to escalate toward the end.
    Then there were online “hookup” website browsing, porn galore (literally dozens of saved websites, drawers and containers full) that I discovered (not hidden at all, from me or his teen aged children), texts and forwarded videos from a female “friend” of his ( that he showed me ). Now, I’m not a prude, but this was just too much. So he got the heave ho.

    I guess my point is, you have to find out what your own comfort level is with stuff like this. If you truly don’t mind it, great. If it’s something that’s a deal breaker, make it known up front and walk sooner rather than later, because once you’ve tried to come to grips with it and it starts eating at you, you’ll regret ever having gone out with the man in the first place.
    My New Year’s resolution is to find a truly good man that is worthy of me by applying what I’ve read here and recognizing my past mistakes and not duplicating them.

  89.  #89Rori Raye on January 3, 2011 at 10:16 am

    Yayy for you, Beth…Love, Rori

  90.  #90Ros on January 3, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    Hi Beth,
    absolutely I agree with you. What I seem to not be doing is learning from my mistakes…
    So my new year intention (I like Rori’s suggestion to use intention) is to find a good man who deserves my love and trust.
    I used to be married to a great man, though he was an alcohool addict, and that’s why I divorced him. Either for alcohool or with this last guy (the last of a string of insuccesses) who is addicted to short relationships with women and secretive sex with casual males, I figured out really today that I have always been dating or had relationships (apart from one or two) with addicts to one thing or another.
    Why, am I asking myself, do I attract addicts? And why do I choose to stay? Does that make me an addict too in a way? Addicted to pain?
    So on with my new year’s intention and I’ll be writing that letter dated 1 Jan 2012 soon….I really want 2011 and from now on to be a success for me and indirectly also for my children.
    Love, Ros

  91.  #91Lainee on January 11, 2011 at 8:59 am

    Hi Rori,

    What do I do if my man does things like deletes his web browser history every time he uses the computer, and deletes all text messages and IM’s he doesn’t want me to see?

    We met online and have been dating for a little over a year now. He kept his online profiles up for a while but has now deleted all but 1 that I know about. He has not logged in to the 1 that still shows up in more than 2 years so I am not worried about that.

    I recently found out he IM’s a woman he’s known for 6 years through a professional organization. I know he was IM’ing her the other day while with me and told me he was texting a male friend of his. I don’t know if he was ever romantically involved with her so I am going to ask him.

    The fact that he deletes things makes me believe he’s hiding things from me he doesn’t want me to know about.

    I am divorced with a daughter. My ex husband had an affair and I am always scared it will happen again. My relationship with my boyfriend seems to be very good. The whole situation really terrifies me because I do love him and my daughter is very attached to him as well.

    I know I need to ask him about all of this and let him know how I feel without attacking him but I still feel like he is hiding things from me.

    Thanks for all of your help Rori.


  92.  #92Rori Raye on January 11, 2011 at 9:17 am

    Lainee – I’m going to respond to this in a post…basically – write up a speech where you simply ask him for information and say that openness and honesty are more important to you than anything…that because you’re only still dating and not committed fully, he has every right to do whatever he wants – and it would feel great if he could make you feel secure that everything is out in the open – there may be nothing, or there may be something – but what feels like secretiveness is what’s bothering you. Love, Rori

  93.  #93Lainee on January 19, 2011 at 11:55 am

    Hi Rori,

    Help! I was planning to do the information gathering speech when I saw he initiated some IM’s with the other woman and lost it. I tried to pull the I’m just asking questions act and play it off but he knew I was mad. He felt attacked and accused. He said that if he didn’t want to be with me, he wouldn’t be. He told me I need to trust him and that if I were talking to other men, he would trust me.

    I am working on myself, the trust issue and working through your Have the Relationship you Want book. I’m trying to let go of the control and be happy with our relationship.

    What do I do now?

    What are the signs of a man who is emotionally unavailable?


  94.  #94Jasmine on February 13, 2011 at 10:51 am

    Okay I am a bit confused on some of this information. Circular dating….we date many men. We are not exclusive with any of them and we can have sex with any of them that we choose. However, the guy we are with cannot then do the same thing? I met a guy on a dating site. I found out that he sees and sleeps with multiple women all at the same time. At the beginning of the year I kind of let things go and said I had needs that needed to be met and I guess he got the impression that I was walking. I knew about the other women as the signs were there but I didn’t say anything because we weren’t exclusive. Then all of the sudden he wants to become exclusive and see where “us” will go. I was a little reluctant and I hadn’t read any of this information yet. But agreed. It didn’t turn out as plans and I saw a few signs that he had over night guests and then I listened to the answering machine and found out a women was on her way, driving quite a distance to meet him.
    I didn’t know how this could be possible because he was supposed to be on call and working all night. When I was there the next night, I saw a dark longer hair in the sink. I confronted him on this and of course denial and then a very long talk that was really nice.
    Then two days later he puts his profile back on match and leaves it on there. I text him no response.
    I don’t hear from him for another few days and then he is sorry.
    He called another time days later after I sent him a lenghty email stating facts. I think it was a good bye call. He admitted that he has a problem goes through cycles, and patterns and uses physical intimacy because it feels good.
    Anyway, my question is, if this is okay for us to do this in circular dating, why do we expect them to be that way? I don’t understand. I told him I didn’t want to be exclusive anymore and I’m going to work on CD but I haven’t 100% ruled it out not seeing him again. I told him I wouldn’t pursue him but not sure that he won’t contact me again.
    Can someone give clarity on these rules?

  95.  #95Rebecca Messing on March 28, 2011 at 9:21 pm

    Boy, do I need help with this one! My boyfriend does the same thing online. He is still on the dating sites, singlesnet, plus more! I see he goes on them also. The one site says “Recently Online”. We have been having problems lately and he’s been distant for 2 months now. I had my time, blew up, left him and all of that nonsense that goes along with it. But I just can’t get past this issue. The porn I can handle. I even watch it with him at times. (We live apart) But the need to stay on these dating sites? I have cried and cried over this and he knows how I feel about this. Yet, he says, not once has he even come close to being unfaithful to me. He is a commitment phobia type of person but yet full of love, caring and all that good stuff we love, yet this part of him I just hate!! I will have to continue reading about this here. This is all new to me and just stumbled on this. I’m just learning how to change now and will try some of it out on him this week, as we’re going to Vegas for 8 days. He says he’s really excited. Our relationship is VERY complicated, a lot has happened and I want to stay with man cause I love him so, but should I? That’s the question. Is he worth it? Something I have to figure out, soon! So, thank you for listening and please keep this one going. I’m sure there are many, many women out there going thru the same thing as myself. It hurts deeply!!!

  96.  #96Jackie Blue on May 22, 2011 at 6:21 pm


    This was probably the biggest issue I sufferred with in my last “relationship” which had me suffering and surfing the net for solutions…I found articles on Helium which then led to Rori’s info…and I started putting it into practice….anyway I digress…

    my story…last August I suffered a miscarriage….what makes it unique for me is I was pregnant as a single person electively through IVF…I was not dating anyone….but then the guy/Sean who hit on me in a bar June, found me on facebook. We started talking, texting, skyping regularly…he was working in different states for another month. I admit I felt emotionally vulnerable and weak and searching, difficult for me to admit to when I felt “strong” enough to be want to be a single mom. It was always a desire I had, and being 37 I wasn’t going to wait for Prince Harming/Charming to make it happen.

    Anyway, we began dating, and exclusively, my bad….I brought it up and he agreed….(now I know better…truly).

    Anyway when deleted my “Happy Valentine’s Day Sweetie” off of his facebook page on that blessed day….it pretty much confirmed the ugly agnst I was feeling…I looked up OK Cupid and there he was and was active. It was the site he had setup where he had met his last ex…I always remember that stuff…so my suspicsion was confirmed. We argued and I eventually broke up with him a couple of weeks later. Prior to that I had my suspicions on his facebook, new girls would appear, he would admit to “controlling” his page, deleting comments other wrote if he didn’t like them. I saw a comment one time a girl wrote about him “standing her up” before he deleted- it was a night we were together, but he was supposed to go out with friends, and I know this girl to be one of the group. But still clung with my emotional attachment…which again in hind sight is prob my trigger for abandonment and at all costs not letting someone go if they give any room for belief…even if it is crumbs as my sister says.

    So we talked and things were ugly…but part of me kept him around I told my self to practice these skills on. I found him another dating site, and created a fake profile and he took the bait (and yes it was plenty of fish…no pun intended). He asked her out to dinner while he and I were “working” things out. He actually IM her while talking on the phone to me the end of March. Again in hindsight, this was crazy behavior on my part, but I got closure like a girl could ask for, because to talk to him he could lie without a hitch. I had him telling her about all his internet dates and even bragging that he was seeing many people and not dating anyone exclusively in quite awhile. Would you believe I got the Toxic Man program and kept debating whether he was a toxic or not??

    It took me to May and I was a nervous wreck the day I myself signed up for a dating site, but virtually right after I felt empowered. I ended going out on a date with a person I met that very weekend, and I am still seeing him. He is nice, and I am really trying to go by the RORI BOOK, between Modern Siren/Targeting Mr Right and the Heart Tool kit…I find it overwhelming, but when i really get and apply stuff I see how well it works.

    I still talk to Sean, he knows I am seeing other people and I have clarified my boundaries (getting in touch with myself has been my biggest difficulty with this program…it is totally against the strict religious upbringing I had), I see he deleted a lot of his female facebook friends, still has an ex on there, and told me he deleted dating profiles. I don’t trust him, but right now I feel comfortable having him as one of my three, but I feel less guilty using him as “testing rat” if that makes sense. I would also be lying if I didn’t say a maternal portion of me also feels bad for him…(he is seven years younger…and is spoiled mama’s boy) I loved those moments when I didn’t care to tell him exactly that I thought he needed a spanking and to sit in the corne…..

    Anyhow..bottom line…I feel uncomfortable, unsettled and disturbed when a guy is communicating with other women, has ex girlfriends on their page, WHEN I know how important this social medium is to them. Sean accesses facebook everyday, prob several times a day…and I do not feel he is trustworth.

    TJ…the new guy I am seeing through the dating site, took himself off the search engine, accesses his facebook of only 71 friends once every couple of months….I feel fine with that. I am still active on the dating site however, we never discussed exclusivity.

    I’m working on circular contestant #3 – I have a 25 year old texting beau (who I told it will never happen cause I could be his mother is we were Africa) and another date who is moving here here in a week.

    Thanks for all these stories ladies, and thanks for the proactive and intense logic Rori – just being patient and viewing it as learning and I dont’ have to get it perfect is what I keep reminding myself.

    Still struggling to feel comfortable with my boundaries, and seeing things for what it is and not how I want to make it.

    My next big hurdle is I started the IVF process before I met TJ and now I may or may not be pregnant via artificial means….so I just threw a monkey wrench in an I am trying to sort how to Rori this one out….and the “fun” I will have of discussing this at the correct time. Guess I added more in this then just how much the social networking bothered me. \

  97.  #97dont wanna say on August 25, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    I think my boyfriend is amazing i truly do… he tells me i can trust him and i do, up until i log into facebook and see he leaves random things to girls, he tells me he’s not flirting, and the only girl for him is me, but if he wasn’t interested he wouldn’t say anything in the first place or even want to. he got mad because i did the same thing to him to show him what it would feel like if the situation was flipped, and he freaked on me and broke up, but we got back together, it’s stressing because i like him so much more then i can explain, i don’t need to talk to other guys because the only one i want is him and him only, i wish it was the same for him. we started talking on the phone before we met and from everything he told me i felt like he was to perfect to be real to only want one girl but as soon as we met everything was fine and still is, but i don’t know if its jealousy getting in my way ruining things or if its that he really is doing something wrong :/

  98.  #98Jamey on November 13, 2011 at 10:57 am

    I just went through a similiar situation. I was living with a man for 3 years and during this time he contacted many exes online. One gal was someone he had met at work, before he and I were dating, and then a year into our relationship I found an email to her that was very inappropriate. This woman was 15 years his senior and married for 30 years. I tried to forgive him with the intention of moving on but he would still continue texting or emailing loves of his past. He was not sexual with them anymore but would continue writing one in particular and just letting her know that he thinks of her often and misses her. When I confronted him, he said that they dated but they realized they were just better as friends and he moved away, here to Oregon. He said that she helped him through his divorce and he is grateful to her kindness and just loves her on a friendship level for that. He seems to have this need to have attention from other women even though he doesn’t write sexually, I am not comfortable with contact at all. I loved reading this article because we are in the midst of breaking up because I think a committed relationship means no contact with exes or old flames. It is very hard because we had a lot in common and had a ton of fun but this electronic relationships have driven us apart. I’m trying to stay strong but it is hard and I am realizing that I wasn’t loving myself enough to not accept it. I have been crying a ton but I kow each day will get easier. There is so much more to the problems than I have written but it would take weeks of writing to put everything out there:).

  99.  #99donna on March 31, 2012 at 8:57 am

    This has been going on too long in my marrage of 25my yrs i am 47 beautiful diva rori your tools work. He say he will give it up and promised me over and over he masturbates to porn than has no desire and i feel it instanly the disconnection. Yesterday he said he will not give up porn because this is killing me… we have 4kidsa. 25-19-17-14 .this sucks i feel so icky to be around him hes not sleeping in my bed hes sleeping outside in the ban qith his porn phone…

  100.  #100Rori Raye on March 31, 2012 at 10:29 am

    donna – I don’t want to tel you what to do – but, at this place in your life, with your kids nearly grown – is this what you want? Best coach for your exact issue is Dominique – http://www.sexandheart.com. Love, Rori

  101.  #101donna on March 31, 2012 at 11:39 am

    No this is not whay i want i deserve better
    Imi scared to leaveyou
    i feel ignored when second class to his porno. Hes toxic x 10 i feel so lost.

  102.  #102Gina on April 15, 2012 at 9:38 am

    Just wanted to say I am dealing with this and it is all cheating and unfaithfulness. If a man shares any of his thoughts via text, phone calls or any internet sites this is consider cheating.

  103.  #103Anne on June 5, 2012 at 11:41 am

    Hi, please help me out. I was engaged to a man who was loving, caring, always there for me through thick and thin and we hung out every day. He always called me and saw me. Something tragic happened, and I had to get an abortin, I was so upset I stoppped having sex with him. Even after two years together I could not bring myself to have sex with him. I never told him that I was still upset abut the procedure, and kept everything inside. Everything in our relationship I thought we were both happy, we got in disagreements but nothing major. Than I started withdrawing from him, I became depressed and did not want to go for walks with him just wnated to stay inside. I was upset because he did not open up to me about the abortion except for only the first year and he never explained his feelings so I pushed him away. He brok eup with me and I was devastated, after a month we started talking again and he said he missed me and loved me. When I came to see him, I found out he was watching porn when we were tgether and taking pictures off adult sites where he said he would imagine it was us having sex. He did try to have sex with me many times but I would not, I could not bring myself to because of the horrible thing I did. I was scared of getting pregnant again. I’m upset that he had me and had to do this. Why could he not be truthful with me, I told him about my past as I used to strip never taking my undies off, just my top and I told him I was ashamed of it, and I changed. He was fine with it, but said he came across emails of when I was single sending naked pics to a guy, it made him insecure and he watched two webcams because he was angry that I lied to him. Will guys look at porn when they are not having sex and what was the reason to him looking at real life pictures on adult sites? I am hurt becuase he knew I went through a lot with what I did and regretted. I was really good to him, sweet and always said I loved him and was attentive. He said he did not think I was sexually attracted to him becuase I would never have sex, we had sex once before my procedure, and I was really into it than I just couldn’t after everything I went through. I also do modeling, and he finally told me he was not comfortable me doing lingerie modeling/mens magazines. He never told me htis before because he did not want me to yell at him for it. I would have stopped if he told me he did not like it, I would have just done bikinis/commercial work. What do I do, I still am in love with him? I want to trust him that he will never do this, but is this who he is?

  104.  #104Rori Raye on June 5, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    Anne – Welcome – and this is all about you. You need professional help. NO relationship can survive without sex. The fact that he used porn and STAYED with you gives me a good feeling about him. Your issue of trust in HIM is completely erroneous. He’s done nothing to betray you. YOU on the other hand, have not told us that you have done ANYTHING to help yourself get over the abortion, your judgments of yourself about your past, or to try to deal with your fears and renew a sexual relationship.

    You have made no moves, from your comment here, that you’ve made ANY effort to solve the problem and make HIM happy. I don’t want to blame you – but I want to push you into taking responsibility for your part in this. His part is in tolerating this situation.

    This is all about you ‘fixing” what has broken inside you, your connection to yourself and your high-opinion of yourself. I recommend several coaches – Virginia Clark at http://www.itsnevertoolatetomarry.com, Todd Creager at http://www.toddcreager.com, and Dominique at http://www.sexandheart.com. If you can find a therapist or even a clinic near you – try that, and if it doesn’t help quickly, quit and try another one, because many therapists out there use old, outdated methods that don’t work as quickly as others, and can cause you even MORE pain. Love, Rori

  105.  #105julia on June 5, 2012 at 5:10 pm

    Hello and can u please help my boyfriend. Of two years has never earned My trust 1 because I can’t trust anyman and two he simply does nt deserve it. One time I found 12 pictures of the same girl on his phone I asked him to delete it, he just hides it when I found I did nt tell him but simply ask did u ever delete them he claims yes I then know he’s lying then angerly confront him about it and leave he made it up later about 4 months later I suspect him flirting with my old friend claims no and one day on Halloween I ride his phone with him texting her flirting and he even writes no one can ever find out I get every mad and still forgive him 3 months later I can’t him texting his cousin. Who was not really cousin. When I reds just got out of the shower his reply ohh sexy. I then get more mad than ever and say never again do this and just recently I find a number on his phone for on of his recent contacted numbers he claims he dnt know who it is but of course I don’t believe him what should I do about this situation. When he continues to get mad at me when I don’t trust him

  106.  #106Concerned on June 5, 2012 at 5:13 pm

    I have been married for 12 years. My husband had got into all the MySpace,texting. Then email,just friends at work etc. The list goes on and on then the affairs come after. Pornography and all this stuff leads to nothing but trouble and lies. Weak

    men who lie and continue to lie. Marriage and dating will NEVER NEVER BE THE SAME. If they only knew the damages this causes. It is an addiction just like cigarettes or alcoholism. Unless the jerk off looser stays in counseling he will continue because he thinks that it is not hurting anyone. He is doing it to make himself feel good.

  107.  #107Rori Raye on June 5, 2012 at 9:39 pm

    julia – I can’t imagine what you see in this man – or why you think this kind of man is all you deserve. You deserve love, not this kind of stuff. Love, Rori

  108.  #108julia on June 5, 2012 at 11:17 pm

    Yes but everyone he claims. That no of them matter that he doesn’t even know why he does it that I’m the girl he wants to be with for ever. And all those other girls are just one time thing

  109.  #109Rori Raye on June 6, 2012 at 9:47 am

    Concerned – my friend Dr. Sheri Meyers is incredible with all this information – she has a book “Chatting or Cheating” all about social media and cheating and what to do about it and to prevent it and fix things even after infidelity.

    For me…your anger towards him, and the fact that somehow you’ve decided to stay married and stay so angry tells me that you are okay with the level of life and love you have. Otherwise, you’d work to change it. Your anger at him only hurts YOU. Change your anger into compassion for YOURSELF and start taking some action that will help you. Do the Tools for yourself. It’s easy just to hang around and be angry and blame him. It’s harder to grab your own life, embrace it, and shift it. Love, Rori

  110.  #110concerned on July 15, 2012 at 4:48 am

    Dear Rori,
    My boyfriend of four yrs has a habitof going to internet dating sites and even post up personal adds on craigslist when he’s and only when he is drunk. He never does it when he is sober. Is it just the alcohol that is talking and how do I get this to stop? He doesn’t drive and doesn’t go anywhere without me. He constantly is down on himself when it comes to his weight so could he just be boosting his self esteem?

  111.  #111Rori Raye on July 15, 2012 at 9:08 am

    wow – concerned – this is something I’ve never really heard of – and yet it must be fairly common. It’s sort of a passive exercise like porn, where he’s pretending to be “free.” The question I would ask is: How often is he drunk? or just drinking – because that’s almost the crucial aspect of this. It’s kind of up to you whether or not you want to live with this. It certainly would turn ME off! Perhaps you’re afraid that if he lost weight and felt better about himself – he’d do the online dating for real and leave you? This is what ANY of us would feel deep down. So – the question is – are you instinctively and subconsciously holding him back (and not even knowing it consciously) from being all he can be for fear that if he improves himself he’ll go elsewhere?

    If this rings even remotely true – then this is where you can draw some strength by working on yourself and practicing the Tools everywhere (CDing without dating). And slowly saying that it would “turn you on” if he’d go to counseling with you, or get some professional help for his weight and alcohol (AA is the place…), and that this situation is “turning you off.”

    Thing is, tho – that would be a huge risk for you subconsciously….so I encourage you to try all this on internally, and work things out with yourself. That alone might help your situation. Love, Rori

  112.  #112karma on July 19, 2012 at 9:21 pm

    iv only been with my man for 3 months we are currantly living together and we just found out that i am with child ..a few weeks ago i found out that he was flirting with this girl from work he is 28 and she is 17 i understand harmless flirting but when it went over the line and she admitted feelings and he kept flirting it bothered me i told him so and he told her i didnt like it …last week i found out that he was still flirting with her his excuse was iv never had other girls interested in me and i like it and i told him that i feel as if he is cheating on me not physicaly but emotionaly (and honestly the emotionaly is what hurts the worst for me) he tells me to get over it she is his friend and he will not turn his back on her but i feel when he told me to get over it that he was turning his back on me and making my feelings inadequate i dont want to feel like the bad guy by asking him to stop talking to her but i honestly feel like there is no point in going on i dont eat well i get sick everytime i eat alot of it is morning sickness but part of it is everytime i think of him and her flirting and carring on i physicaly get sick and all he can tell me is its nothing i will never leave you for her and all i want to ask is if it is nothing then why cant you end it all together and i also feel that she is young and she knows it bothers me …and she lets it continue to go on and encourages it by wearing skimmpy clothing sand has expressed her feelings for him ..so i feel like its all a game and im the one not playing but i am the one losing ….so im telling him tonight when he gets home that i cant take no more and if he loves me like he says he does and if its nothing like he says it is then he needs to choose if how i feel makes me the bad guy then i am but i refuse to be in another relationship where my love kindness trust and feelings are taking advantage of

  113.  #113Rori Raye on July 19, 2012 at 9:34 pm

    karma – get yourself some professional help right now. In person help would be great. Your hormones are all over the place, and you’re not seeing things clearly – this woman has nothing to do with this – you’re angry at your man and yourself, and you’re trying to make sense of it by turning on the girl. Of course he has to CHOOSE! We ALL have to choose to be with one person only if that’s what we want in our lives. And if he doesn’t – there’s not a thing you can do about it. Right now you have to deal with your child. You have many decisions to make for yourself and the child, and you may not have this man to help you. Your anger is not helping you – in order to do the best for yourself and your child, you have to get your head clear. Please get some help and some support in your town. Love, Rori

  114.  #114lila on July 30, 2012 at 6:49 pm

    i need ur urgent advise pls . i break with my bf after 6 years love because I discovered that he didn’t stop his habits of flirting and inviting other women, the past 5 months i left him alone while he was begging me by all means to come back ( as we used and indirectly telling me to forget this issue and accept it ” TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT ” . and i didn’t respond to his beggings .. was hoping he will discuss this with me and promisiing to try to stop .. instead , he blamed me that i was stubborn , destroying the love without feelings , killing hime and take revenge .. he is believing him self , just because i left him 5 month not responding to his love messages … we were talking slightly through this period , but not meeting daily as the past 6 years … 3 days before we were talking , he was making his nick name that ” I am for u … ” and asked me to invite him for coffee .. i refused , out of sudden on chat , he was talking and softly saying bye ..the next day deleted me . I need ur help >> i love him , I want him to stop blaming and to stop dating others .. am confused …
    after one week he came back to congraulate me for an occasion .. then we started to meet daily , he opend the topic of trouble and he blamed me for the tough way of neglecting him the past 5 months . ignoring his beggings . he said i didn’t deal in clever way with the situation … and we continue meeting the following days .. love is there … he is telling he missed me and he is scared from me … am so tough
    he is still deleting me … still not calling as before …
    i love him , don’t understand why he is not excusing my anger and keep on letting me feel guilty …
    i need myself .. need him to feel guilty and he may loose me in this way of behavior even if ia back …
    pls advise

  115.  #115Rori Raye on July 30, 2012 at 8:21 pm

    lila – I don’t understand. Why do you want a man who isn’t loyal to one woman – you? Some men just aren’t cut out for monogamy – and he sounds like that man. Also – what he’s saying – putting everything on you and being angry is pathological behavior. Not labeling him sociopathic or narcissistic – but this kind of accusing you of “neglect” because you want to be his only woman after 6 years is typical of that kind of thinking and behavior. I encourage you to get some kind of counseling or coaching and learn what’s drawing you to this and how to go in another direction. Love, Rori

  116.  #116lila on July 31, 2012 at 1:59 am

    thx for your answer . actually he is claiming that he get used in the past before he loves me to this kind of behavior and after our love he changed alot .. i feel this .he claims that even if he is talking to lady that doen’t mean that he is planning to make another relationship or to love .. mmm he love sex and i think it has something to relate to this …
    he is telling my feelings to me is something different from those .. and he is contacting those women outside the home country , where there is no chance to meet or to make relation .. he is trying to put excuses or it is real , my problen i truly feel he loves me and i am too but when i discover his lies , i hate everything …even myself because we come back and he feels he is hurted alot for my ignorance for him for the past 5 months , i don’t know if this true feeling or he is acting like this to let feel sorry for the past 5 months.


  117.  #117Alice on November 2, 2012 at 10:58 am

    Hello Rori,

    Deep down, I know i have taken the good decision, but i think I need some confirmation. I was really attracted to my neighbor. We started to talk on facebook last year and after a month, he just didn’t answer anymore. I was of course really angry to have been treated this way. There was no reason. But I didn’t remain angry for a long time. I thought he was just not in a hurry to have a relationship (he calls himself an “antisocial”). And once in a while, i was still contacting him on facebook. And when i was talking face to face with him, he always had sparkles in the eyes and he couldn’t keep his eyes off me. Then one day, i was in the elevator, the door opens and there he is…with another girl. He ignored this girl completely to talk to me and even on our floor, he continued talking to me while the other girl was following us without saying a word. That day, I thought I had been lucky not to have been chosen by him because obviously he couldn’t treat a girl correctly. But as I was sure that he was the one for me, I couldn’t help but keep hope. I was sure the girl was just a friend as he didn’t seem attracted to her at all. And when he was seeing me after the “elevator episode”, he was always taking his time to talk to me and he was still looking at me with sparkles in the eyes. A few weeks after, I decided to move out. So i wrote to him on facebook to ask him if it was worth it to let a letter that i wrote for him. I wasn’t sure completely if he was single. He wrote back to me to say that he would be really pleased to read it and that it was always great to talk with me. The next day, I realized that when he wrote to me that, he was coming back from a trip in south america with the girl! But again I thought she was just a friend as he always seem distant on his pictures with her. A few weeks ago, as I didn’t have any news from him (i had given him the letter a month before), I wrote to him again on facebook to tell him goodbye, that I was not waiting anymore for an answer. He replied telling me that my letter had touched him a lot, that he is interested in me and that he thought he had made a mistake because he is going out with the other girl. But he wants to take time to think and wants to keep in touch with me and he says he will never ignore me. Three days after I asked him to meet him. It was out of question for me to remain an option for him and to stay there while he was thinking and at the same time going out with another girl. He had to make a choice. So I wanted to talk to him (i didn’t tell him i wanted him to make a choice, i just asked him to see him) And he did what he did in the past, he didn’t answer. A week after, I told him goodbye a second time. I cannot bear that lack of respect. And as this story had caused me pain and sadness, i thought that this story should be useful for something else too. i didn’t deserve this sadness and to be played with. So I took the facebook messages he sent me telling me he was interested and sent them to the other girl. I thought he had to learn something from this story too: to treat girls with respect and not play with a girl’s feeling ( i was so sincere with him). But sometimes I still wish he would come back to me. That he will realize his terrible mistake. And I am afraid that i have ruined everything by sending the messages to the other girl. It is so stupid. He didn’t treat me well, he lacks respect toward me and I am afraid to have done something wrong. Do you have tricks to forget someone ? How come a man who is not happy with a girl cannot take the decision to leave her for someone with whom he has chemistry ? And he has been going out with the other girl for two months only and she writes on her facebook that she is single. We had chemistry, he doesn’t have any with the other girl. He looks at me with sparkling eyes and is distant with the other girl. Why? I don’t understand this behaviour. I want to forget him and do as if he has never existed. But at the same time, i wonder: can a man come back to a woman who has warned the other girl that he was playing with two women at the same time ? Thank you for your help Rori

  118.  #118Rori Raye on November 2, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    Alice – Here’s the deal….what I’m hearing is that you lack experience with men. And what you’ve written here are the feelings, thoughts and actions of a woman who’s quick to anger and to feeling slighted. This situation, where you talked on facebook and then he “lost interest” is just that. It’s simply “talking” and “dating” – and you’re not only taking everything so seriously that it’s damaging your wellbeing and peace of mind – you’re making assumptions about things that are simply not true. This is not about treating a girl correctly – this is about him not wanting to make waves with you, a neighbor, or be confrontational. From what I hear – you’ve never even had one official date with this man. So – he owes you nothing. He’s done nothing to you except be friendly and seem attracted to you, and then not engage on FB or by asking you out. Please read everything you can here about “Imaginary Relationships” and let us help you. Love, Rori

  119.  #119Alice on November 4, 2012 at 7:48 am

    Thank you very much Rori for your answer. But if a man plays hot and cold with a woman, I think he is mistreating a girl. It is playing with someone’s feeling. And he is playing with two girls at the same time. That is really immature and disrespectful (he is 31 and me 35). And I don’t accept that. I think I have been so much patient with him. He is the one who contacted me on facebook, and once, he felt he could have me, he disappeared by not answering anymore. Who wouldn’t have been angry to be treated like this ? That was last year (september-october). I didn’t show him I was angry at his behaviour. But I ignored him once in the corridor (he had ignored me on facebook,so why should I talk to him as if nothing happened). But for Christmas, I gave him a little cupcake to tell him in a certain way that I understood that he was maybe more clumsy with girls than mean.

    The months went by and when we were meeting each other in the corridors, we would talk and discover more and more that we had things in common (not superficial things). And then surprise, this other girl entered in his life. Although we never had a date, he kept acting like there was no one in his life and he was still flirting with me. And a few weeks ago, when he gave me some feedback after the letter I gave him when I moved out, a letter in which I was telling him I would miss him, he told me he had maybe taken the wrong girl, that I was a pearl he had let go, but he needed time to think. In other words, he would have liked me to stay around him, especially now that he is seeing someone he doesn’t like. It sounds like he wanted a back-up girl. So this time, I am the one who disappeared. Maybe he will see my true value this way. I am not a passive girl who will wait stupidly while he is seeing another girl. I understand your circular dating thing, but I cannot personally be attracted to more than one man at the same time. I think it is playing with people. If I was seeing someone and learned that he was seeing other girls, I would stop seeing him. That means he is not into me. Even after one date, you know if you like someone or not. I don’t know…that is how I see things personally.

    Thanks again Rori for the time you took to answer me. I just want to be respected by people. If a girl friend doesn’t answer me when I write to her, I don’t like that either. It is disrespectful. That is how I see things. I deserve respect and to be loved. Not played with.

  120.  #120Amanda on January 5, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    Have been in a committed relationship for almost 4 years. We live together and work our businesses together as general contractors. He remodeled a home for a woman and that job ended in October. However, he continues to contact her, some for work that she has said she wants done…. but other times for no reason at all. I always know when he has talked with her because he is distant, happy and very polite to me…. Over the Christmas holidays we traveled out of state, and i sensed t that he had talked with her…on Christmas Eve, New Year’s Eve and on the 3rd of Jan. I decided to do nothing until I got home, because we were traveling a great distance, visiting his family and I did not want to deal with it over the holidays. I checked our cell phones account and found that he had left a message for her to which she responded with a text on Christmas Eve, and texted her at 10:00PM on New Year’s eve from his Aunt’s house where we were spending the night. That was the only call he made that evening, and the one that to me is undeniably a personal text….not business. I was so sad and scared when I saw the New Year’s Eve text but now realize that something needs to be done. I did not confront him, but my agitation was obvious. He followed after me all evening and hugged me in the parking lot of the convenience store and kissed me. Said he could tell I was upset about something. I have still not talked to him about it. I have confronted him about his contact and behavior with this woman before and he said that the problem is .that I think there is something going on when there is not. He says he has done nothing wrong and that my distrust of his actions with other women is unfounded. Says he loves me and there is no one else. I do feel like he loves me but has been inappropriate in his connections with a few women. I was married to a man who was very unfaithful for 13 years at the beginning of our marriage and I believe he was unfaithful during the last years of our marriage….and, following a period of 12 years of faithfulness, became unfaithful again for many years. I am open to the possibility that I would be distrustful considering my past experience with my ex-husband, and could be imagining my boyfriend’s motives in contacting this woman. He says it is business oriented. As an independent contractor, he is in close proximity with many women as he works in their homes…. but this one woman is a problem for me.

  121.  #121Rori Raye on January 5, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    Amanda – is he interested in marrying you? Is he (and are you) interested in having a family with each other? I am NOT good with other women in the picture no matter how “friendly” it looks. I couldn’t and wouldn’t deal with this unless I was into polyamory – and I don’t think I’d be interested in that at all. Your call. He’s obviously attracted to her in some way, and that’s not going to stop. You’re basically going to have to say he can’t have women friends who he texts and calls – that doesn’t work for you – and then it’ll all be pretty much over, because he is who he is. Either that – or marry him and tolerate the other women. Perhaps he’d never actually “cheat” – but “chatting” is cheating to some of us. Love, Rori

  122.  #122ang on January 8, 2013 at 6:55 pm

    I really agree with that! Chattin is cheating….

  123.  #123Elrond on January 11, 2013 at 4:25 am

    Dear Rori and all,

    my heart goes out to you all and I hope that your wisdom might guide me with the problem i am having in my relationship.

    My bf and me are together for more than a year now and we are living together.

    Before we met he was the “guy everyone knows” and even though he is not a student anymore, he was living the erasmus/exchange student life.

    He was always at the beck and call of women who were treating him like shit and manipulating him to do what they wanted.

    At the beginning of our relationship i had quite a hard time with his constant: yeah this is — and we used to hold hands like an old couple, but there was never anything going on. this is — we used to just cuddle and i saw her in her tanga once, but i am not attracted to her etc. i know that what he is saying is true, because he has this weird morphed relationship with women. 90% of his friends are female….and now that i am in a very low emotional place about myself, it’s really killing me.

    whenever i tell him that it bothers me that he is constantly on contact with female friends he says that he has known them for years even before our relationship and that he would never cheat on me. i also believe that, because he is a very loyal person. he would never cheat on me. yet…..i already feel that what he is doing is cheating somehow…
    he asks me what we should do and that he has already cut contact with 80% of his friends.

    but i dont notice that….what i notice are constant texts and messages and other crap on facebook. and i feel as if i dont get a break from it. he is really addicted to facebook and since he has to be home after an operation…i believe he spens about….8 hours a day or even more on that site.

    today i got week when he left his laptop open and i only browsed who he has been writing to. i didnt really do research, but the first two names that came up were women i had real issues with. i do not want him to have contact with them and i have expressed this. yet…over christmas (i was at home with my family) he wrote with one sending little hearts and kisses and i miss you stuff and daring each other to prove who misses who more and come over. ….

    i feel so uspet and angry right now and i dont know what to do. i am angry at myself that i even looked, because it has brought hurt on me and i cant even be mad at him for it, because in reality i wouldnt know…..

    i need help how to work with this facebook and people addiction he has…. because other than that he really is the perfect guy who treats me like a princess (i have done all the rori raye programs, so he survives the test in all other areas.)

    i am so grateful for all of you who can help me out there!

  124.  #124Rori Raye on January 12, 2013 at 11:16 am

    Elrond – I don’t know how old you are – but whatever are you doing with a man whose behavior is so immature? (I’m not labeling him at all – but this behavior is simply not acceptable to me from any man who could even be CONSIDERED as relationship material.) This is my advice for anyone in this situation: Get out there and Circular Date and simply tell him you love him deeply and are happy to play the field and continue to date, as you consider his behavior to be dating behavior, and not relationship behavior, and can no longer be a “girlfriend.”

    Yeah, this means “breaking up,” but you can continue to “date” him along with other men if you want and can handle it. (I wouldn’t want to – what’s the point?)

    If you’re not ready to do this – that’s fine – then simply continue as you are and accept what he does without comment. Complaining about his behavior will get you nowhere. Love, Rori

  125.  #125Rachel on January 14, 2013 at 10:19 am

    I too have a similar situation with my boyfriend, to the point where he actually split with me today, but a few hours later back together 🙁 Back in November an old school friend got in touch with him on facebook, just general chit chat to start with but then he asked if she had a boyfriend, (now i must point out he told me he was talking to her and i thought it was a little odd he had not mentioned her before so i told him i felt uncomfortable about it, so he said he has nothing to hide heres the password you can read the messages for yourself) So i did, i really didnt want to but i felt i needed to set my mind at rest, cut a long story short shes telling him she cant get a boyfriend and that she only attracts horrible men, he then replied to her saying she was gorgeous and how could anyone not want to be with her. I was fuming when i read this, now you all might think thats over the top but i set my boundaries as far as im concerned im the only one he should refer to as goregous. So i told him how i felt, it did turn into a massive argument, but we then cleared the air and he assured me it wouldnt happen ever again. Since then we have had our ups and downs things havent been as rosey as i would like them to be, but i have started to concentrate on myself going out with my friends etc and hes started to take more notice and be affectionate to me. Anyway last week we had another argument nothing major but i just felt i need some space so i stayed at my parents for a few days, i enjoyed my time apart i felt relaxed although frustrated at times. I came back on saturday and prior to that we agreed we would talk, he sat down and didnt utter a word, so i bought up how i was feeling, soon we are both in tears because we feel frustrated because our perfect relationship isnt so perfect anymore, i struggle to get my words out so i told him i would write exactly how i am feeling down so he could read and understand what i am going through, now during the time i was gone he was in contact with this girl again. He briefly told her we were not getting on and that upset me, i dont want a stranger to know our relationship issues, so i told him it bothered me. He then said he would delete her from facebook if it was going to cause that much of a problem, a day has gone by and i asked if he had deleted her (i know a mistake, i asked the innocent question) he went mad at me then closed his facebook account altogether! He actually split with me today but we are back together now, hes working away this week so we have some space but i feel things are at a stage where it cant be repaired unless he realises how much it upsets me. He said all i do is go on about this girl when i should forget about it. How can i forget if it makes me feel uncomfortable?? Your thoughts would be great x

  126.  #126Kelly on January 29, 2013 at 10:41 am

    Seriously.. I am tired of trying all the “tools” with a pathological liar who always goes back to whores on the internet. Our sex life is fantastic, we have been communicating better… low and behold..here come the lies and whores..AGAIN. He is VOID of EMPATHY.. blames the world for his behavior. I’m tired of looking like a fool. TOXIC IS TOXIC…THE TOOLS WILL NOT CHANGE OR MAKE A TOXIC MAN LOVE YOU.

  127.  #127Rori Raye on January 29, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    Kelly – and why would you WANT them to change a man like this? I would never say that my Tools can transform a man who lies. Who is devoid of empathy. And here comes the tough love (please don’t read if you don’t want to hear): I can say something for sure, from your comment here, and that is your clear hatred of this man – and so I extend that to many men, to many things in this world, to more and more of your experience – makes it crystal clear why you’re attracting and attracted to such an obviously “toxic man” you can despise. Here you are, with a man you despise, whose behavior you despise, feeling turned on by him, and then angry about it. What is that saying? Love, Rori

  128.  #128Carolyn on January 29, 2013 at 2:44 pm

    In June of 2010 I wrote a post about a man whom I thought was the love of my life: a man who drank too much, spent my money, talked to other women, and who disappeared from my life. He wound up coming back, said all of the right things, and then reverted back to his old behaviors, leaving me again, but this time more than $6,000 poorer. And he tried to come back again, and again. He told me he had become sober. That things would be different. But I said no. I still struggle with my feelings for him. Sometimes I still feel that I’ve lost a limb almost, without him. But he was toxic and it was never going to get better.

  129.  #129Starla on January 29, 2013 at 2:49 pm


    we are all hanging out on the most recent blog post, please feel free to join us there!

  130.  #130Elmo on February 11, 2013 at 11:28 pm

    Today is my birthday. My LDR boyfriend of 4 years is supposed to come in town for my birthday and Valentines Day. Over a year ago, I found that he was online sex dating sites. I don’t think he ever met any of the girls and didn’t pay so had limited contact. When I found this and confronted him he said he was sorry, he was just bored and was only there to get the pictures. He said he had quit but I found that he had not. He has been unemployed and did not have internet access until about a week ago, through his mom’s computer. I discovered that the day before my birthday he signed up at a hookup site and is viewing and winking with these naked girls (he’s 39, they are all in 20s, I’m 49). In the last three days he quit calling and texting as we have done on a daily basis. I do have some things I need to get back from him. I guess my plan is to allow him visit, not mention what I have discovered – (no sex I will say because of monthly complication) and to be as soft and fun and irresistible (as I learned from Rori’s “Relationship U Want ebook” ) to him during the visit, get my stuff and end it. I want him to have a great time to help remind him of what he’s losing. Not sure how to end it. I feel that punch to the stomach. I am in love with him but I definitely do not want to live this life. I have been unsure if he really loved me. I have helped him out a great deal through his rough times. I asked the Great Spirit to just provide me with a clear sign and wow, be careful what you wish for. But it is a relief to know. I actually think this guy is a narcissist. Anytime he does anything harmful to our relationship and there have been many and I try to discuss it he just gets angry and blames me and puts me down and I end up apologizing – when he was the one who committed the offending behavior. So I don’t think it’s worth it to confront him with my knowledge. I have now learned so much from Rori’s book and emails (I do wish I could afford the Modern Siren and Toxic Men programs). I thought we had grown closer – until the internet was turned back on. Now i know I’ve been living a lie. So, I move on – with trust issues to work through and a broken heart to mend. If anyone has any immediate feedback or advice on how to end it, how to move on (geez don’t feel quite ready for Circular dating). I thought we were going great, seemed closeer than ever but that was before the return of the internet and then I was cast aside immediately. Our relationship has always been under his control (and while he has had all the control he accuses me of being controlling). Stand back ladies, he’s all mine. I know this is the right decision, is there another choice really? I just feel so broken and alone. Help ?

  131.  #131Annie on March 4, 2013 at 8:21 am

    I feel interested in what your thoughts are about men who keep old naked pics on their computers phone of their ex girlfriends Rori? For memories etc.

    Or if their ex girlfrinds still send them pics?

  132.  #132Annie on March 4, 2013 at 8:42 am

    Hugs Elmo.

  133.  #133Annie on March 4, 2013 at 8:44 am

    126: KellyNo Gravatar says:

    Seriously.. I am tired of trying all the “tools” with a pathological liar who always goes back to whores on the internet. Our sex life is fantastic, we have been communicating better… low and behold..here come the lies and whores..AGAIN. He is VOID of EMPATHY.. blames the world for his behavior. I’m tired of looking like a fool. TOXIC IS TOXIC…THE TOOLS WILL NOT CHANGE OR MAKE A TOXIC MAN LOVE YOU.

    Tuesday, 29 January 2013 @ 10:41am
    127: Rori RayeNo Gravatar says:

    Kelly – and why would you WANT them to change a man like this? I would never say that my Tools can transform a man who lies. Who is devoid of empathy. And here comes the tough love (please don’t read if you don’t want to hear): I can say something for sure, from your comment here, and that is your clear hatred of this man – and so I extend that to many men, to many things in this world, to more and more of your experience – makes it crystal clear why you’re attracting and attracted to such an obviously “toxic man” you can despise. Here you are, with a man you despise, whose behavior you despise, feeling turned on by him, and then angry about it. What is that saying? Love, Rori

    At a guess I would say she has been abused in the past.

  134.  #134Rori Raye on March 4, 2013 at 5:06 pm

    Annie, Thank you for your insight here, and, Kelly, if you’re here and that’s true, please – let’s talk about how that’s affecting you and what we can help you do about it. Love, Rori

  135.  #135Annie on March 7, 2013 at 2:40 am

    126: Kelly syas

    “Seriously.. I am tired of trying all the “tools” with a pathological liar who always goes back to whores on the internet. Our sex life is fantastic, we have been communicating better… low and behold..here come the lies and whores..AGAIN. He is VOID of EMPATHY.. blames the world for his behavior. I’m tired of looking like a fool. TOXIC IS TOXIC…THE TOOLS WILL NOT CHANGE OR MAKE A TOXIC MAN LOVE YOU.”

    You are right Kelly no they will not.
    What they will do is get you to a place where you love yourself enough and feel turned off and repelled to love yourself enough to get yourself away from a man who does that. You will not want him. And out there. Once you have done this, you will no longer be attracted to or attract this. Hugs x

  136.  #136Nadia on March 7, 2013 at 7:55 am

    Hello rori I wanted to speak to you about my bf he’s always flirting & contacting women from his past on social networks its tears my heart apart because we have two children & I don’t want to tear my family apart but he swears he won’t do it again & sooner or later I find a new Facebook account & messages to all these females. I just don’t get it I don’t think he’s physically cheating but with that being said there’s no way for me to know what he’s capable of doing behind my back. He swears he loves me & doesn’t want to brake out family apart but I don’t believe he’s stopped doing this & I really don’t believe he’s capable to stop at least not for me.

  137.  #137Rori Raye on March 7, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    Nadia, if he loves you, perhaps he’d be open to couples therapy with someone like Dr. Sheri Meyers, who specializes in this kind of thing? Also – you might get help just from reading her book – “Chatting or Cheating.” Love, Rori

  138.  #138Rori Raye on March 7, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    Annie, Right on with this answer! Love, Rori

  139.  #139Annie on March 8, 2013 at 3:40 am

    I wanted to ask peoples thoughts on keeping your man keeping pictures/letters from ex\s.

    Would you think that he had not fully let go of the past.
    Online and phone pics for example.

    To me if someone wants to do this, they are still fantasizing about an ex.

    And have not healed fully let go, so not really fully available.

    What about sexy or naked pics of ex girlfriends.?

    Any thoughts.

  140.  #140Nicole on March 10, 2013 at 11:52 am

    Does anyone else find it amusing that it is blatantly pointed out that the man will never change and if you don’t like it you should just leave BUT use my tools and there is so much hope for change if you are a female? Funny how that works…

  141.  #141Rori Raye on March 10, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    Nicole – there is such a HUGE grey area here about “will he change” – that your choice to make this assumption that a man will never change important things like communicating better and opening up more tells me where you’re at. Yes – I don’t advocate waiting around for a man to stop drinking or doing drugs or being involved in any way with other women (when it doesn’t feel ok to YOU), or not wanting to work, or giving up on finding work, or being so only about himself that you can see it in all parts of his life, or just generally not doing anything to “find himself”….AND if a man is just clueless, awkward, not comfortable and on the fence about a lot of things in his life – there’s a lot of room for a woman to INSPIRE him to WANT to MAKE dramatic changes. It’s your choice which perspective you want to take. Not doing the Tools ourselves feels like a perspective that makes no sense at all to me. I realize what I just said sounds kind of harsh – and yet, I want to welcome you here. I agree with you that things don’t seem fair – (isn’t that a huge cliche thing – “Life isn’t fair”?) – but, to me, it’s all a learning experience. Love, Rori

  142.  #142Annie on March 10, 2013 at 6:17 pm

    Nicole I take this to mean that he will never change why you are still putting up with it and doing what you do, have always done playing a part in it repeating over and over again like a washing machine, rinse and repeat.

    Behavior doesn’t change unless the person who is behaving that way believes it is a problem and WANTS to change it.

    An alcoholic believes his drinking is a problem and not that EVERYONE drinks and gets drunk now and again. And wants to stop. Wanting to stop is the first step.

    And leaving him to it just maybe give him the intensive, inspiration for him to want to take that first step.
    It may not, staying there moaning whilst still putting up with it, telling him off etc crying begging shouting whatever just keeps everyone STUCK.

    So I take this to mean that the best chance of him wanting to change himself is leave him to it and staying there doing what you have always done just guarantees you will get what you always got.

    If you always do what you did you will always get what you got.

  143.  #143NowUnCertianly Independant on March 12, 2013 at 4:55 am

    Thank you, I am not Crazy…
    Maybe my situation can help you, your still NEW relation and should be a lot easier to JUST GET OUT! I talked myself out of my “gut feelings” so many times, if I would have listened to myself (my head, not heart) I wouldn’t be in near the DRAIN as I am now… NO QUESTIONS don’t wait for his answers that will be whatever he thinks you want to hear… Until the next time you catch him with the same inappropriate behavior, Please do not allow him to get the best of you…
    I have been with my well what to call him. Presumably boyfriend, or when it benefits him “finance “with out the proposal…. or social networks, dating sites and when he’s dating other women behind my back I don’t exist or I am his Ex he happens to live with or not even mentioned at all… Anyway for 5+ years and I am trying to GET HIM OUT OF MY HOUSE AND LIFE. Just for this reason… Pictures are one thing…. Blocking me from FB and claiming single because I asked who someone was, and then more and more and more (didn’t happen overnight honestly I don’t know how Long but too long) it has led him to walk the CHOICE to be unfaithful over and over and yet claim he Loves me and can’t Lose me… I gave him the altamatium 2 years ago, that or me… Porn is one thing but when you can meet them different, heck I fanaticize about Vin Diesel, Will Smith and Hotties, that I can’t just call and say “come do me in my car” Different Story. Yes some women can and are okay with an “open relationship” I am not one of those Women. He thinks I don’t know and continues to lie over and over… I have been looking and looking and trying to find out how to get him out of my house and life! Many Expensive things are in My name that are actually belonging to him and I cannot afford that along with Large amounts of money owed to me for all sorts of things when he needed it. I am tired of being walked on, lied to and I am a strong Independent (he actually stated that on one of our first dates that it intimidated him, guess he got over that, and turned it to a challenge) Any way sorry for the Rant Needed it and maybe someone could help me with What/How to get this Man I Love dearly but he can be in my heart but no longer in My life, Myself and My 2 boys are suffering, I do not want them to treat any female the way they have seen me. I have spoken with them and they know that Mom is STONG and we will pull through this! I want me back, my kids want me back, my Friends tell me all the time they want Me back, Years of lies, deception, controlling, mind “screwing”, and making me believe I am Crazy no I remember and I know It all. Yes I was wrong for going into things but It was my cell phone bill I paid for (picture mails, texts, & Calls were insane amounts) then I wanted to know how far the rabbit hole went and got into emails, FB and WOW it was just the beginning.. I felt it but Not this bad of Unfaithfulness, with SEVERAL and that is just who he must have enjoyed and deleted the rest. He was Lying to them too, saying he was single and lives with his Ex and just ALL LIES to everyone. I don’t understand I dont think I ever will. The Singer Pink has a song that really says it really maybe I was better Not knowing, no it is just harder Knowing everything has been a Lie until I can figure out how to get him out and am suffering everyday with “playing house” like I don’t know it all.
    Thank you for my Rant and if somehow results can come, I stumbled on this site from a Quote picture.

  144.  #144Rori Raye on March 12, 2013 at 11:05 am

    NowUnCertainly – So sorry for your situation – and yet, you sound strong and determined. When I talk with married clients in situations that aren’t working, the very first thing I have them do is go see an attorney, an accountant, and find out how EXACTLY there financial situation will be if they leave. For me, it’s what gives clarity, and the ability to walk – which is essential in any negotiation or relationship. If there is no marriage, but business entanglements, I still insist on a legal consultation during coaching. Love, Rori