If He’s Depressed…

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Here’s a letter from Laura, who’s enduring a practically unendurable situation – see if parts of Laura’s problem feel familiar to you…another woman he’s emotionally attached to, deep depression and physical symptoms….

“Dear Rori,

I’ve been going through a difficult time dealing with my husband Bill this past week. He seems to be going through a very rough patch and I don’t know how to help him, or even if I should try to help him, so I’m not.

He’s been sleeping and basically living in the spare bed room for 18 days now. Most days he comes out occasionally for an hour or so, but sometimes he hides in there for days, only emerging when he can be sure he won’t run into me.

I thought he was “punishing” me because I told him if he keeps talking to this other woman and actually goes to visit her in the country she lives in not to bother coming home. (He says she’s a “friend” – only he left me once to spend time with her.)

His closed door makes me feel rejected, like he does not love me as a wife anymore but rather wants to live like two roomates. But now I’m beginning to feel his withdrawal may not all be due to his anger about that boundary, even though that’s why he originally moved out. That’s why I’m asking your opinion about midlife crisis.

Bill has been making statements about not caring about anything for awhile now. Then last Sunday morning he opened up to me about being depressed, he said he feels sick all the time and is tired of it. He says has a constant pounding headache, feels dizzy, short of breath and feels exhausted all the time. He asked me to make an appointment with his doctor and I agreed (he went yesterday and is undergoing tests).

He said he would not care if he died and that he does not care about anybody or anything. I didn’t say much, just “that feels so sad” and listened in level two with my heart open. Then he went up to “his room” and did not come out for two days. Suddenly on Tuesday night he came out and acted friendly and normal, and stroked my head when he walked past me. Now he’s acting distant again.

I have not leaned forward or over functioned. I wrote out several scenario “maps” as you taught in our last class, and have using feeling messages. I feel okay during the day doing my work. I make sure to go out at least once a day and talk to men and Circular Date (without dating, as you said). But sometimes the loneliness of being in the same house yet so far away from my once beloved husband is just overwhelming.

My question for you is — what do you think is going on with him? And is there any way I can help him besides just listening with my heart open? Is he in the middle of a midlife crisis that will go away in time? Is he depressed or maybe trying to make me feel guilty or sorry for him?

I feel that with your help, I am changing from a depressed people pleaser into a strong soft woman. He told me I’m sexy and seem to have “finally” grown up. But I feel as if this depression of his is hindering my progress this week and I’m having a problem getting him off my mind.

Thanks for your help! Love Laura

My Answer:

First – the Magic Bullet answer:

Laura – your husband is sick. He’s seriously depressed or moving to bipolar – he needs help.  Therapy would be great for the long term (but it’s really, really hard to get a man to go to therapy…) – For a quick magic bullet – medication may be the simple answer here, and because of his physical pain – it might be way easier to get him to a doctor and to some quick help.

Most likely –  if the meds make him feel better – everything will get clearer for you.

Thank him for initiating a visit to the doctor. Most men do NOT come up with the doctor idea on their own.

So be thankful he has physical symptoms – (all of which can also be depression-related, or may be something else that’s also causing the inbalance in his system and the depression).

Know that I’m not a pharmaceutical kind of girl.  I’m more holistic and look for nutritional and Chinese Medical solutions first – but pharmaceuticals work. So, if he goes with medication, and if they hit the right combination quickly – (they’ll likely start with some simple basic anti-depressant and or anxiety relief kind of thing) – you might see an almost IMMEDIATE change in him (give it about 2 weeks).

Often, tho – it takes a bit of trial-and-error to hit the right combination.

So – can you just hold on until the doctors figure it out and he gets on board?

Once he’s feeling better – (and please wait, as you are – for him to start talking) – then you can explore options.

And most important –  THEN you’ll know if the marriage has any potential for you as a strong and soft woman.

Everything may change for you for the better – or it will change not for the better – but you might finally get some CLARITY!

The important thing here is for you to keep working on you – to get happy, busy, a full life, and to stay warm and open and compassionate with him – and let your emotions show and be vulnerable – so you’re “raw” instead of cool.

What you gain for yourself here is yours to keep – and you’ll see how much it will help you very soon….

Here’s the hard part:  Yayy to the doctors – and yet it might feel hard and stressful for you to stay OUT of the interaction – which you must do.

Bill might just want to deal with the physical pain, and the doctor may not be good enough to even ASK him about depression.

If that happens, you’re going to have to talk with Bill.

And for any woman who’s stuck in this horrible situation (the other woman is challenging enough – you have absolutely no control over that except to walk away from him) – where you want your man to go to the doctor and get “fixed” – your job is to express how good it feels when he takes care of himself and sees a doctor, and bad his depression must feel, and it feels terrible to you, too, and how good it would feel if he’d look into medication for that, too.

It’s challenging to “be there” for a man you’re furious with.

It’s challenging to use non-violent and non-pushy words to get him to do something so obvious as going to a doctor and getting medication – whether it’s Viagra for sexual problems or anti-depressants.

It’s so much easier to “be there” for him around the physical pain than it is around “mental pain” – because most of us can be okay with physical pain and getting that fixed – but judge mental pain as “weakness.”

Now The Relationship and Emotional Answer:

It’s way harder to deal with a man’s emotional issues than with his physical issues (and that’s hard enough). If the physical issues get bad enough, it might drive him to a doctor who might be smart enough to figure out what’s really going on.

S0, on top of all the physical issues (including the physical aspects of the depression) – he’s feeling intense guilt over the other woman.

He’s feeling intensely angry with you for making him choose.

He’s in an untenable position. He feels totally like a child – with you his mother telling him what he can and can’t do.

And he’s acting like a child.

Instead of dealing with his situation and making some kind of decision and taking care of himself – he’s simply seeing the other woman as his salvation – and you as his jailer.

And most of us can identify with that.

I know for myself that I HATE having to choose.  I just want it ALL.

It’s one part of me trying to solve a problem or run away from a feeling and just being angry with both myself, others, and the whole world for the very reality of me BEING in this situation.

Being an adult is a big deal.

It means finding your own joy, your own peace, and not relying on anyone else to hand it to you.

It means not always having what you think you want.

It means not always having your cake and eating it to.

It means – for us – not dating a sexy, chemically desirable bad boy and hoping he’ll turn into a prince just because he loves you.

It means looking for the option that feels best.

And right now, he’s in a hole.

He’s not acting like an adult.

About the “Magic Bullet” – I personally think that sometimes pharmaceuticals can help by breaking the logjam of being stuck.

So many times, using Viagra and discovering that his penis works can give a man the confidence he needed to do without the Viagra.

Taking anti-depressants for awhile can give you a sense of what it feels like to feel better – and so it makes it easier to want to feel better. It can make you more motivated to explore other options and feel even better.

I could easily say that the whole depression is caused by his emotional turmoil. That even the physical symptoms are caused by this…only it may not help you at all.

So – hang in there…see what he does and what the doctor does. Good luck, and please let me know what happens…we’ll work on this from there…

Love, Rori

 

864 Comments

  1.  #1Terry on June 9, 2011 at 8:37 am

    Whoa, this story felt familiar. I was married to that kind of man. It didn’t last.

    I have a few of Rori’s programs, but I still feel confused about the whole concept of this: “stay warm and open and compassionate with him – and let your emotions show and be vulnerable – so you’re “raw” instead of cool.”

    Sometimes it feels hard to be open, raw, and vulnerable without showing strong emotion (which would cause a man to back away.) However, I feel when I try to stay “in control” of my emotions, I DO come across as cool and not authentic. I don’t feel clear about the difference. ??



  2.  #2Nikita on June 9, 2011 at 9:50 am

    I feel curious about his testosterone levels and whether they are very low…..and dropping.



  3.  #3Senior Lady Vibe on June 9, 2011 at 10:33 am

    Hello, world. I’m thankful for the day. I was outside this morning…and thinking about the summer season which has now appeared full force. I realized I still have two birthday presents in boxes from last year! I will use them THIS year.

    How many of us have things like this we have put aside and sort of forgotten? There might be some goodies in the closet.

    xoxo
    SLV



  4.  #4Lily T. on June 9, 2011 at 10:44 am

    #3
    I recently went through my closet and got rid of most of the clothes I had for years that I no longer “felt good” wearing. Kinda weird to see a skimpy closet. Kinda freeing too. Kinda a gift to myself to not put on something that lowers my vibe just because it was still ‘wearable’. 🙂



  5.  #5Lilybelle on June 9, 2011 at 11:07 am

    4:

    Me too, Lily. In an effort to “clear my space” for my move in two weeks..

    I am so excited to leave the apartment I am in and have experienced so much heartbreak in to move into a new home filled with hope, happiness and freedom.

    It means a lot to me. For good measure, I need to sage the new place. 😉



  6.  #6Laughing Goddess on June 9, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Happy birthday Daria!

    I was listening to this and thought of you and how you mentioned the many vs the one. 

    I feel really inspired by this clip and would love to discuss with you or anyone else who is interested. 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZzdWqpWx5I&feature=youtube_gdata_player

    Xoxo



  7.  #7Laughing Goddess on June 9, 2011 at 11:28 am

    I’m doing a bunch of house cleaning and clearing right now and it feels amazing!!!

    With each thing I get rid of, I feel more and more free.



  8.  #8turquoise3 on June 9, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    I was married to a depressed guy too.. and we didn’t make it. He’s better now, but it took a really long time, and he had to want things to be better. Not sure what finally turned it around for him though.

    The guy I’m dating now has some real problems, laid off from his job, has diabetes, was very sick this winter, living with his parents, etc. but doesn’t wallow in it thank goodness. He complains about his situation, but is trying to make it better. I couldn’t stay with him if all he did was complain, but not take any action.



  9.  #9turquoise3 on June 9, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Where has Jacqueline been? It seems like she’s been gone about as long as Mercedes….



  10.  #10Brenda on June 9, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    Terry,

    RE: #1 – In answer to your question, what it means for me is to primarily be an invitation to my man. Modern Siren gave me a crystal clear picture of that. By nature, I myself am depressed. I want to be my best self, especially around my man.

    I used the tools in Modern Siren to start to pull out of depression, filling my mind and heart with beautiful images of my identity instead: the ocean; a rock; wind; a mermaid. Then when my man asked me, “What are you thinking about?” I said, with honesty, “Mermaids”…he had caught me in a daydream about floating around leisurely in the ocean!

    And that was opening my heart.

    There are times when a man does something really unjust and I am honestly ticked off. I don’t hesitate to express that rawness, either! I speak freely, “I feel like punching you in the mouth right now! I don’t want to be treated like that!” …or what have you.

    I see the rawness as being open and genuine emotionally…while continuing to work on me…so I can be my best self.

    What do you think?



  11.  #11Brenda on June 9, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY, DEAR DARIA, HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU!!!



  12.  #12kaitlyn on June 9, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    Timely entry!

    Adam is extremely depressed. his brother is dying and there’s a lot of inner conflict and self-hate. more than his normal self-hate. A has been slowly pursuing me lately and i’ve leaned back and shown appreciation. swoon!

    BUT…

    i could tell there was something inside his head causing him misery more than normal. with enough leaning back, he finally told me yesterday.

    he found out a few weeks ago that his ex fiancee who left him cold/no contact last year is now making friends with his guy friends and becoming very close with one of them.

    A is so distraught over this, he hasn’t eaten in 4 days and has canceled coming to la because he’s so upset.

    i am totally on his side about this, so i just do a lot of listening and no advising. he has thanked me so much for listening and support.

    but i can’t stop feeling selfish that being upset over her (and the disloyalty of his said friends) matters more than me. maybe i’m being too sensitive?

    i’ve cried all day.

    he says he still has romantic feelings for me but doesnt want to be my or anyone’s bf right now.

    i wish i was dead.



  13.  #13Rusty on June 9, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    428: Lily T. says:
    #427
    Can you picture women dressing sexy to go to a nightclub, then standing in line to have their temptatures taken and their vajay’s swabbed without being told why? Sorry, can’t see it. Are you reading Rusty?

    ___________________________________________________

    You don’t have to believe tht it was done, but it was. Here’s the kicker though, the women didn’t know what the researchers were really after. I saw this on a documentary. They showed them actually doing it.

    I believe they said that their research had something to do with alcohol affecting these things so the vitals were likely taken before they entered and after they entered the club.

    Most research done like this, they aren’t going to tell you the truth about what they are after because they don’t want it to alter your behavior. For instance, if they tell you that they are taking note of your hem length, you might think too much about that as you dres for the evening.

    The real question is, why would you think it wouldn’t be done at a night club? That is the perfect place to do it because this is where you dress to impress a mate more so than any other place you go.

    Also, there may have been some sort of reward for those that participated. Like free admission to the club or free drinks or something of that nature.



  14.  #14tinque on June 9, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    Brenda – “By nature, I myself am depressed.”

    No sweet lady you are not. You learned this. Maybe very early on, but NO ONE is by nature anything but love.

    xxoo



  15.  #15kaitlyn on June 9, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    happy birthday, brenda.



  16.  #16kaitlyn on June 9, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    he has postponed his trip to here because he’s that upset.

    i told him if i have to share his heart with some other chick, forget it. and that i like him too much to just be friends.

    he is now saying i’m selfish, and if i truly cared about his well-being, i wouldn’t be acting like my care and support is only part of the package deal if he’s my boyfriend.



  17.  #17Femininewoman on June 9, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    kaitlyn I would get clear about whether he is distraught about the friendship with the other guys or if he is still “pining” over her to see if there is emotional attachment to her. I have to tell you I heard a discussion on Z100 a radio station this morning about the same topic. The views were split. It seems in such cases people like A lose all their friends to the other person as a result and they mourn the loss. It is not about you in other words. I don’t see it as them mattering more than you. I see it as him taking care of his feelings.



  18.  #18Rusty on June 9, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    438: FlowerChild77 says:
    Rusty, I’d like to hear your ‘guy’ opinion. You were discussing 50/50 which is part of my thought process. My posts on this thread#46 and #145 explain and #446 in the last thread for more info, though I don’t expect you to read all that

    I love this man with all my heart. Since I’m the one who left and he’s told me this is it for him (me) and that there will never be another woman in that house, he will never be with another woman etc. it doesn’t feel like the same kind of situation where I could apply all the ‘tools’ and expect some kind of miracle.

    I left because I figured it was never going to ‘go anywhere’ and all attempts to talk about it ended up in fighting and drama ( you know, that ugly thing that happens when we’re afraid to let our real feelings out.) If I do go back I want more than just the devoted commitment (which, by the way, I’m not poo-pooing) but I’d want to be married.

    He is a man of VERY few words. This is his third relationship (ever) and he is 56 years old. It took him a year to get my attention and finally ask me out on a date. (He called and asked me on the phone for a real date.) We didn’t sleep together for about 4 months…moved in together after 2 years. Twelve years later I left (last summer.) He has never cheated on me and neither of us has been with anyone else. No sex or dating. No other people.

    The Sirens have advised me that I shouldn’t feel the need to help or worry about how he feels. I understand that to a point—but here’s where the 50/50 part comes in. I’m just curious as to what your ‘guy’ opinion is.

    I promise I’ll stop talking about this soon

    ______________________________________________________

    I can think of no better place to start than the Meyers-Briggs test. Both of you should take it, then read what it says about you, then read what it says about your partner. I am very much sold on this now.

    Here’s the thing, you may be an extrovert and he may be an intovert, or you both may be introverts. I am sold that he is based on some of what you said.

    However, the other 3 letter codes do play in a lot. I found it very interesting to note that different types see things very differently. Neither one is wrong. It is just your type. For instance, one type may believe that being on time for everything is of utmost importance. If he is not early for a class, he is late. Another guy may feel that being on time isn’t the point…just getting there and what you do once there is. We could see this in blatant fashion on American Chopper where Paul Sr was always on Paul Jr to get to work on time, which he rarely did. It was a point of sore contention between the two. Mostly because Paul didn’t realize that often, this lack of respect for time coincides with being very creative, which Paul Jr is. People who are intuitives often care little about the letter of the law and are more concerned with the spirit of the law.

    For instance, I am an intuitive. We have a stop sign a mile out of town that is a four way stop. It is there because of the corn fields that grow very high and very close to the road You can see for at least a mile in each direction no matter which way you approach the intersection. SO when there is no corn, and I can see no traffic, sorry, I’m not stopping. I almost rearended my Brother-in-law though because he in a Sensor who would stop at that intersection if he was the last man on earth.

    The point here is that I now know this test can help you understand why people act the way they do. Maybe this man feels that being married isn’t the point, that being a good person, stable, etc.. for his mate…is. I don’t know. Maybe he believes that giving the woman a marriage will change her. I can totally understand that because most men actually believe this. That many women stop trying once the feel secure. I’ve heard many women say the same about men. Likely, there is a lot of truth to that. I wonder how much of a difference it would make after 12 years though. I mean if the person hasn’t left you after 12 years, marriage certificate or not, there is little difference. Most states regard you as married after just living together for and extended period of time. Some states, that is just one year. Common Law marriage.

    As for the guy, I would say he is a good guy if he was faithful to you for 12 years. Even more so since he was technically not obligated to..by law.



  19.  #19Femininewoman on June 9, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    RE 16 Good for you kaitlyn. He said that now, but ultimately he will accept that if you will take care of yourself like that he can depend on you to take care of him. He doesn’t know it yet but he will eventually know that it is care of understanding for both of you, is what I think.



  20.  #20kaitlyn on June 9, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    He says there is some pining over her, but it’s mostly about being upset that he matters so little to a woman he did everything for.



  21.  #21kaitlyn on June 9, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    so, today i was there for him again. i called to check up on if he’s feeling any better and i listened for an hour.

    is that ok?

    he says he really needs me as a friend right now.



  22.  #22kaitlyn on June 9, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    last night when i said i’m not sharing, he told me how dare i upset him at such a difficult time. my crying was upsetting him, too.



  23.  #23Elizabeth on June 9, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    14: tinque says:

    Brenda – “By nature, I myself am depressed.”

    No sweet lady you are not. You learned this. Maybe very early on, but NO ONE is by nature anything but love.

    xxoo

    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Brenda, listen to the lady, she knows what of she speaks!!

    xoxo



  24.  #24Femininewoman on June 9, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    RE 20 I would then be certain that there is some emotional attachment still. You communicated to him earlier that you want to feel safe. I would stick by this and let him know I respect him processing and dealing with his feelings. I might be wrong here but I would be concerned about him seeing me through the filter of this girl. He might be feeling abandoned by her and you would not want to trigger that in him so you can put through that filter. At the same time you don’t want to pressure him. You taking care of yourself and giving him the space to take care of himself to me is a win/win situation. I would definitely be warm, open and excited when he leans toward me. I also read somewhere that guys process emotions differently than us. It seems some will take a day to cry over such situations and they need a blanket instead of a tissue. We on the other hand will spend a year mourning a relationship. Maybe focussing on something upbeat when you communicate might help put him back into the mindset that works for you rather than discussing this. Rusty might be better at helping you to process this.



  25.  #25Femininewoman on June 9, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    RE 22 I would assume you were getting him into his emotional body. That’s where you want to take the emotional attraction. Next time hopefully it will be upbeat so he longs to get rid of the depression.



  26.  #26turquoise3 on June 9, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    I want to get a Rori program… but not sure which one. What do you ladies think?



  27.  #27kaitlyn on June 9, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    thanx, fw.

    i just sent him a text saying how proud i am of him that he’s taking care of his feelings at sucjh a difficult time and that it feels good that he can confide in me.



  28.  #28kaitlyn on June 9, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    if any of his friends are on this board and out me to him, i will not feel amused.



  29.  #29Rusty on June 9, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    474: Lily T. says:
    #472 Lucy,

    On another forum I’ve read, one of the main points about porn is that women feel bad when their man views it, but he doesn’t care that it makes her feel bad, he continues to view it anyway. To the women that comes across as her feelings aren’t as important as pictures on the computer (or whatever).

    Wednesday, 8 June 2011 @ 7:03pm

    475: Lucy says:
    Also, like Rusty said, men often do climax with porn w/o their partner. And this often leads to the partner’s sexual needs being at least partially unmet especially if she is not going solo as well.

    Wednesday, 8 June 2011 @ 7:04pm

    476: Lucy says:
    474 Lily, yes. And add to that that she is made to feel as if she is the one with the problem – that she should be accepting of it. These days women are often shamed for feeling bad about their partner’s porn use.

    Wednesday, 8 June 2011 @ 7:10pm

    477: Mel says:
    474

    Lilly T.

    I think that pretty much sums it up…

    Although come to think of it… I don’t necessarily think they don’t care. If they didn’t care, it would be more out in the open. Men hide their porn use (I think) because they want to look at it, but know it hurts their gf/wife’s feelings. In some way they are trying to “spare us” or rather they think they are sparing us from the hurt. But really, they are just protecting themselves from the hurt that could result if she found out.

    Sorry if this is rambly…

    I definitely felt like my feelings didn’t matter though.

    I’m trying to get to a place where I can say… that’s what he chooses. No judgement. Now… can I feel okay with this or do I choose something different?

    Wednesday, 8 June 2011 @ 7:11pm

    478: Lily T. says:
    Yes Mel, you are right too. Sometimes (I believe) men hide the porn viewing for both those reasons – they don’t want to hurt their partner and also they don’t want the grief coming down on them for being “caught” at it after they said they wouldn’t look at it anymore.

    The problem though is that they don’t stop looking, and their partner still feels bad that they are.

    I don’t know what the answer is.

    Wednesday, 8 June 2011 @ 7:19pm

    479: Senior Lady Vibe says:
    Just thinking…. what did people did “porn-wise” in the olden days without easily available home porn? i think relationships have changed because of it.

    Where my uncles might have had a stag party and some 16mm stag flick… now every teen can get modern porn on their laptops, things those old guys never saw…

    xoxo
    SLV

    ===================================================

    Lot’s of issues here, but one thing I can point out is that men and women both run into this in many ways. I’ve known women who say they feel controlled if their guy insists she not talk to a certain guy anymore. I had that happen to me once. I had god reason but of course she just saw their relationship as being friends. I knew however that e wanted more, a lot more. So I asked her to stay away from him. Again, ask yourself, which is more likely to actually ruin a relationship? By that I mean, which one could end it by the person being asked to stop, actually oving on with somebody else, or having an affair?

    Obviously, the friend could become a sex partener, or mate in a LTR much easier than some porn star that we see on a computer or TV.

    I grant this however, Computers have made it so available that it is maybe too available. IMHO, the best way to reduce the amount a person uses it is to get them away from the computer. I would make this something you insist on from the very start of a relationship. Have agreed upon times where recreational use of a computer is allowed and times when it isn’t. Have movie nights, go for walks, etc…

    I am here to tell you that for most men, the allure of being able to see a beautiful woman is just too much. You may intend to just sit down and chat with friends on a message board, or do some gaming, but sit there long enough and you will likely open up some porn images.

    Think of it like somebody addicted to smoking having a pack of cigarettes within reach. Sit there long enough and eventually they will light one up.

    But anyway, my point was that you take offense where none is intended. It simply isn’t about you….at all. There is no intent to hurt your feelings, or ignore them. It is simply men answering the call of the wild. The primal drumbeat just gets too loud and they give in.

    So again, the best way to reduce it is to find ways to get him away from the computer, and it’s even better if you can do so without him kowing that is your intention.

    Here’s a clue…you aren’t going to do it by inviting him to sit down and watch Steel Magnolias. Get my drift? You are going to have to find out what other things he is passionate about and get involved in thiose things with him. Does he like motorcycles? Take one of those motor cycle safety courses with him, one where they proivide the motorcycle. They have them here for about $250 I think. Then look at getting a bike and go for rides together. Most guys with motorcycles think that it is very cool when they meet a couple that ride together…her on her own bike. Yeah sure you like having her on the back but it’s also cool just to ride side by side sometimes too.

    This works for many things. Eating too much? Find a way to get away from the house, and food. I did this to get in shape before going back into the Navy and trying out for the SEALS. I went golfing every single day at a small town country club that allowed you to pay a yearly membership and then golf all you wanted to. This was very early 90s and it cost me $450 a year. I walked at least 18 holes every day, which also kept me away from food.

    So IMHO, that’s the key. Sumer is here. Try going camping, hiking and going to the beach as often as possible.

    Bottom line, get him out of the house doing stuff HE likes to do and he will spend far less time with porn.



  30.  #30Rusty on June 9, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    482: Mel says:
    “I don’t know what the answer is”

    Me either.

    I wish my husband would not have told me he wouldn’t do it any more if he had no intention (or ability) to keep that promise. That just makes it feel worse because then deception is thrown into the equation.

    ================================

    Again, I won’t defend the dating services but the porn, I can only say that when he sees you hurt, he likely intends not to do it. I have been there. The woman means everything to me, and yet, when I am bored, and on the computer, I will look.

    The problem is that it is so available and at the same time, we use computers for so much more. Like I said, it is like a smoker having the cigarettes siting right there. You may have promised you won’t smoke, but with them right there, within reach…yes you will.

    And leaving a man over this isn’t much of an answer because I was shocked to learn that the porn industry actually takes in more money now, due to computers, than hollywood does (Source:CNBC). In other words, A LOT of people are doing it. Your odds of leaving a guy over it and ending up with somebody else that does is very likely. It’s the getting caught at ti that is the difference. But for some women, even a false belief is enough.



  31.  #31tinque on June 9, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    Actually Rusty, this is not true. There are very few states which recognize common law, and only one state which does not require paperwork to be filed. I have done a great deal of research on this. The ONLY state which recognizes and honors power of attorney and inheritance rights without the paperwork as long as anyone who knows you thinks of you as an exclusive committed couple is South Carolina.

    http://www.unmarried.org/common-law-marriage-fact-sheet.html



  32.  #32Elizabeth on June 9, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    21. kaitlyn

    It’s OK if you are taking care of your own feelings, and being a “friend” to yourself, just as much as you are to him. It seems you are getting a lot better at,
    that, kudos.

    OK, so you came right out and told him you did not want to share his heart with the other woman. He now knows without a doubt because you put your requirement out there. You are a force to be reckoned with, you told him that your feelings will need to be considered also, and you are not just someone he can rely on to be there to unload on.

    The way he responded though, makes me curious as to whether or not your pronouncement came off as a request or a demand.

    We all respond much more favorably when we frame a desire for our partner to meet our needs as a request, which is more likely to make the other person react more positively.

    And also letting them know that the intention is to find a solution where both of your needs can get met.

    Something like, “Adam, I know you need a good understanding listening ear right now, but would you be willing to consider that it is difficult for me to listen to all of your feelings around her, because
    it would be hurtful to me to know that I would have to share your heart with her.”

    What do you think?

    xoxo

    xoxo



  33.  #33Terry on June 9, 2011 at 1:57 pm

    Re #10 Thanks, Brenda! Makes sense. I do have Modern Siren. It’s just that I’ve always felt the tools were to help us NOT to lose control if we’re angry.

    I’ve gotten really good at using feeling messages, but sometimes if I feel really angry I just want to scream when I’m using them. That’s where I’ve felt unclear about all of this.



  34.  #34Rusty on June 9, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    523: turquoise3 says:
    I’m getting bored with Mike2 and his problems. His diabetes is a constant issue… I looked back at his facebook wall for about a years worth, full of illnesses. I’m bored with him not having money to take me on nice dates. He met the girls and I for dinner last night and paid for just himself. I’d said I didn’t expect him to pay for the girls, but he could have covered his and mine, or at least his and the tip. Then we went for ice cream, no offer to pay for ours, but paid for his. Wouldn’t seem as bad if he hadn’t just gone and bought a bag full of cigars at the cigar shop, and telling me he’s going to visit friends in Virginia this weekend, and will go to Busch Gardens. Can’t spend $10 of us for ice cream… but can do all that. Yuck. If his finances are as dire as he says…. why go out of town? He’s also lived with his parents for 3 years now, since he moved back from VA. Yuck again.

    He steps up in wanting to spend time with me, I hear from him everyday… but I don’t feel special. I don’t know if I want to keep dating him. I haven’t told him how I feel…but I don’t want to have to tell someone how to treat me. I want them to treat me well on their own.

    =================================

    Is he Australian? Believe it or not, I met Nicole Kidman’s friend and actually dated her when I was in Australia. He name was Lisa. She told me that they in Australia have what American women claim to want but don’t. I asked her what she meant and she said “true equality.”

    I thought she was off her rocker because I was convinced that American women do want true equality but the truth is, they don’t. “They want the privileges without the responsibilities”…her words.

    She told me all about how dating goes there, and yeah, if a guy asks you out, it is assumed that you pay your way. So if he asks you to dinner and ice cream, it is assumed he will buy his and you buy yours.

    However, if he says, “My treat,” it is the girls responsibility to make clear that there is no sex involved. If you do not make this clear before the date, he is going to expect it after the date. So in other words, if you aren’t willing to have sex, you will usually just say something like, “No, that’s OK, I don’t mind paying for myself.” Or you might just decline the date.

    We were sitting in a place called Woolamaloo’s and there were 5 people fairly close to us. It was early so not a lot of people there. This group of 5 consisted of 3 guys and 2 girls. She told me she knew them and asked me if I could tell who the two couples were. I got one right and one wrong. The one I got right was actually a guess. I felt more sure of the one I got wrong.

    She told me this was one of the things that they loved about the American Sailors. We did little things like open doors, etc… Things that Australian men didn’t typically do for them.



  35.  #35Lily T. on June 9, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    #13 Rusty,
    Did you read that article on prediciting ovulation that I linked to? To accurately predict ovulation involves more than “taking vitals”, and would have been done every day for more than one month on all women participating in the study. There is no test yet that will instantly determine whether a woman is ovulating – the kind that could be given along with paying a cover charge for example.

    Not to mention, you said this study determined the women dressed sexier on the night they ovulated. How was this determined? Wouldn’t the women have to go to the same nightclub EVERY NIGHT OF THE MONTH to compare what they were wearing to ovulation night? And who decides what is sexier? Think man.

    If you can find a link to any such study, documentary please share it.



  36.  #36Rusty on June 9, 2011 at 2:11 pm

    31: tinque says:
    Actually Rusty, this is not true. There are very few states which recognize common law, and only one state which does not require paperwork to be filed. I have done a great deal of research on this. The ONLY state which recognizes and honors power of attorney and inheritance rights without the paperwork as long as anyone who knows you thinks of you as an exclusive committed couple is South Carolina.

    http://www.unmarried.org/common-law-marriage-fact-sheet.html

    Thursday, 9 June 2011 @ 1:52pm

    When did this change because there was big case several years ago where a common law marriage was involved.

    Point still stands though that if the guy hadn’t left after 12 years, I don’t think he was going anywhere.

    Then again, maybe there is more to do with this. I know a situation where a man in his late 50s married a woman very close to his age. They lived in his home for a few years and then sold that house and moved into a new one. He provided most of the money.

    A year later, he died and because she was still alive, most of what was his was retained by her. about a decade later, she died, and her kids got alomot everything. The house, boat, cars, etc…

    It costs a lot on lawyer fees to get things set right. If it ever gets set right.



  37.  #37Rusty on June 9, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    35: Lily T. says:
    #13 Rusty,
    Did you read that article on prediciting ovulation that I linked to? To accurately predict ovulation involves more than “taking vitals”, and would have been done every day for more than one month on all women participating in the study. There is no test yet that will instantly determine whether a woman is ovulating – the kind that could be given along with paying a cover charge for example.

    Not to mention, you said this study determined the women dressed sexier on the night they ovulated. How was this determined? Wouldn’t the women have to go to the same nightclub EVERY NIGHT OF THE MONTH to compare what they were wearing to ovulation night? And who decides what is sexier? Think man.

    If you can find a link to any such study, documentary please share it.

    ===================================

    Like I said, it was a documentary. I hope you aren’t calling me a liar.

    As to the specific details on what they told the women they were participating in, or how they determined that they were ovulating, I can have a few deatils off. What I am not off on was that they were looking for behaiors of women who were fertile vs those who weren’t and they determined two things. Women who were in their fertile time dressed more provovatively and even more surprisingly the women who were married had the biggest shift in how they dressed.

    I do also know that the women were not told that this was the info the researchers were after. Obviously, this is standard procedure when there is concern that knowledge will alter behavior during a study.



  38.  #38tinque on June 9, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    Can’t say for sure, but it’s been a long time. I have a few lawyer friends who concur. I don’t know the case you cite, but it’s possible that wills etc. had been written.

    If there had been no paperwork of some kind, and he had no heirs, family, etc. the state could have seized property, assets, etc. essentially putting the woman out on the street.



  39.  #39gina on June 9, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    I’m turning 30 this week. Wowsers! Happy Birthday Daria! I feel a little curious about how we have birthdays within days of eachother…
    Crap! It’s tommorrow! my 30th birthday is tommorrow! I feel light and happy about it. I have been running and dancing a ton. I was featured on the last episode of the Oprah show. My dance classes are increasing in attendance. My students are improving and having a blast. They go out dancing on their own all the time. I am attracting men left and right. I feel “over” D – I am ready for sexy passionate love and I feel it coming to me, and it could happen with any man. And I feel a little piece of it with every man I meet. I connect with them deeply and radiate deliciously and I love their attention and affection. Happy Birthday to me.



  40.  #40Lily T. on June 9, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    Actually Rusty I might be calling you a liar. In yesterday’s post you presented as fact, that women were randomly tested for ovulation in a nightclub without their knowledge, and it was determined they dressed sexier when they were ovulating.

    More likely? You watched a documentary about sexual behavior and ovulation and just “embellished” the details to make a better story. Shrug.



  41.  #41kaitlyn on June 9, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    A just called apologizing that he’s venting to me about another girl. I feel bad that I stuffed my feelings and said, “It’s ok. I understand, and I’m here for you. You’re my friend.” But he actually expressed elation and relief after I said that.

    am i still on the right track? am i doing this right?



  42.  #42Brenda on June 9, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    Tinque,

    RE: #14 – I really appreciate what you said about depression!! I was raised by a depressed mother, so depression is my state of mind, I mean, it feels like my identity, even tho I know it’s not. It feels like reality.

    Any suggestions (anyone) how I can break away from that? It’s like if you’ve been told all your life that summer is cold and winter is hot, it’s hard to believe when someone tells you that in reality, the opposite is true. I so want to be free of depression.



  43.  #43Brenda on June 9, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    Terry,

    Don’t let me fool you – there are times when I still scream and yell. My perception is that as a highly evolved Siren, I will have a handle on my emotions to be able to smoothly, automatically say in a calm voice, “I feel furious right now. I feel like breaking something!” Most of my practice with anger feelings is in dealing with Kenny, since I’ve known him 11 years. He triggers me, and he’s safe to practice with, because he’s unconditionally loving.

    I find that when I am able to control my temper long enough to state my anger in feeling messages, he responds much more constructively. And that is cool, when it ends up being a growing time, not a tearing apart time.

    The more I use feeling messages, the more automatic they become!



  44.  #44kaitlyn on June 9, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    uughhhh i said ‘you’re my friend.’

    WHEN WILL I EVER F$CKING LEARN????

    i’ve spent all this time, all this work…

    finally, he comes to me. but then all this with her.

    i hate when he talks about all his problems (which is fine by me) but says he has nothing to live for.



  45.  #45gina on June 9, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    I feel so proud of my students. And I feel so good about my relationship with the preschool, and I’m so grateful that I get to go back and see these little kids grow up. And they love that I knew them when they were babies, and I love telling them how beautiful they are. And i love that I am now teaching ballroom dance to people with Alzheimers. i love how it feels like I’m back at the preschool, dealing with souls eager for expansion. I love how the classes are becoming more in demand, and so it’s going to be perfectly natural for me to receive a pay increase. I love how my schedule and my lifestyle is falling perfectly in a place that I love. I love how I’m beginning to see that my relationship with D gave me an experience of love, and of my self as a lover. And I love that I did take a stand for myself. I love how I question whether “taking a stand” is really necessary, or could I go with the flow instead and feel better. Maybe I could and maybe he could or “should” but we didn’t and that’s just fine, because from here I just keep flowing from where I am, and just keep flowing.

    Some contrast that currently inspires me:

    Skin Picking – feels miserable, bad shameful, satisfying, excruciating, exhilerating, good, numb, black out, accomplished, productive, destructive, violent, judgemental, self conscious, like hiding, like blaming, angry, jealous, shy, intoverted, ugly, alive, sensitive, heightened sensations, hopeless, hopeful, determined

    Clear Skin – fresh, and full of junk to pick, anxious, easy, carefree, on the verge,

    Weight – bad, fat, heavy , shameful, friendly, average, unattractive, unsexy, out of control, unworthy, ugly, stupid, unlovable,

    Energy – exercise feels aweseome, high, fast, fun, young, alive, energy, expansion, strong, free, light, lean, beautiful, sexy, gorgeous, happy, fantastic, good



  46.  #46Senior Lady Vibe on June 9, 2011 at 2:54 pm

    @31: tinque says:
    “…Actually Rusty, this is not true. There are very few states which recognize common law, …”

    I think this came up when I first came onto the blog. I worked with a social services agency long ago in a state which then recognized and made provision for common law marriage. No more. I believe many things have changed in the last quarter century and some things concerning common law marriage were myth even then.

    Interesting though. We’ll have to talk more about it this summer. You can update me.
    😀

    xoxo
    SLV



  47.  #47kaitlyn on June 9, 2011 at 2:59 pm

    Am i being patient and cool? or just a sucker?



  48.  #48Senior Lady Vibe on June 9, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    @42: Brenda says:
    “…I so want to be free of depression….”

    In many cases there is a medical/biological component. If there is one IMHO, it’s best to get that cleared up, or under control, first if possible. Rori has some notes on this in her post above.

    xoxo
    SLV



  49.  #49Senior Lady Vibe on June 9, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    @40: Lily T. says:
    “…You watched a documentary about sexual behavior and ovulation and just “embellished” the details to make a better story. Shrug….”

    Tee hee 😆 I didn’t see the documentary. It would be hard for the women to be random if they were tested over a period of time and that would have to be the case in order to tell if any one woman dressed sexi-ER at certain times. Unless the testers just subjective used their own fashion sense, compare the groups and form a tester’s fashion decision. If so, could the test be reliable? for the ovulation probably for the fashion… well… maybe not…

    It’s curious so I’ll guess I’ll shrug too until the next time. Or maybe i’ll see that doc sooner or later. One never knows…

    xoxo
    SLV



  50.  #50Senior Lady Vibe on June 9, 2011 at 3:23 pm

    @gina

    Happy Birthday, from me… and Paul…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztoSUhbNntQ

    xoxo
    SLV



  51.  #51Senior Lady Vibe on June 9, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    @34: Rusty says:
    “..I asked her what she meant and she said “true equality…”

    She could not really have meant that paying their own expenses on dates means Australian women have “true equality.”

    If that is so… [I don’t believe it!] No wonder an Australian man can get sex from Australian woman for the price of a steak. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

    SLV



  52.  #52Lily T. on June 9, 2011 at 4:00 pm


  53.  #53Ella on June 9, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    I am feeling antsy.

    I am feeling exhausted and tired.

    I am feeling uncomfortable and bleary eyed with tired and wired.

    I have been plunging into sugar binges in the last few days. I have been eating cakes (which I pretty much never ate before) and biscuits, chocolate and fizzy drinks!

    Eugh!

    And lots of coffee too, which I never used to drink at all either.

    Urghhh I feel frustrated.

    It seems like all the things I find fun are bad for me and I am not supposed to do.

    I am feeling pissed.

    I feel like wining like a teenager and stomping feet…

    🙁

    I WANT to date a bad boy and for him to turn into a Prince.

    I WANT to drink a lot of acohol and it not be a problem in my life and not get hungover.

    I WANT to eat loads of cake, biscuits and chocolate and not get fat or ill.

    And it just doesn’t work like that.

    And underlying all of this is fear.

    A terrible fear that I will be BORED. And I HATE feeling bored.

    And there is anxiousness, that I cannot manage, and it feels like a desperate energy, which doesn’t work either.

    But there is an anxious feeling.

    Just feeling so stressed about not having enough money.

    See I can cope with not having much money IF I know I can get drunk at the weekend.

    AND I can cope with not eating cakes and chocolate and sweets if I know I can go out and let loose at the weekend.

    And I can cope with the pressure of work, knowing that release is coming.

    But what is coming now?

    How will I release the pressure and tension?

    How will I ease the anxiousness?

    The other less healthy ‘coping’ strategy I have is buying stuff, which when I don’t have much money is also a bad idea.

    AAAARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

    I’m doing the best that I can.

    I can’t work any harder than I am.

    Just need a break…

    Keep thinking it must be a tipping point, and think it is… there is a point where things will just start to get easier financially with my work.

    This month I bought myself some St Tropez self tan and some Paul Mitchell hair products. And I felt so guilty… but my hair and having brown skin are things that make me feel good and of everything I can give up these are the things I really want to keep.

    I’m looking for a sense of calm and balance and right now I am not finding it cus there is just so much to do…

    And I feel like I am juggling balls and overwhelmed.

    And yet, I find peace in the moments of calm.

    I love my room at my home. And having a shower in my new shower.

    And I love Zumba.

    And I do love my jobs… just need them to start paying! Lol.

    Anyway, sorry for whinging on… really it is not that bad.

    Quite good in fact.

    Its all getting there.

    I just have my period and feeling extra drained from working long hours today.

    And luckily don’t seem to have put back on the weight I lost, through my crazy diet of the last week.

    And things will calm down a bit.

    I am gonna find the daily peace. And find new ways to relax.

    And I will get back to eating healthily… cus that does feel good.

    Have just been tending to grab everything and stuff it in my mouth recently while doing ten other things.

    And I know its tied in with feeling tense/anxious.

    Right its getting late here now.

    Going to have a bath to relax and then head to bed.

    Thanks blog for being here for my to go ‘blah’ on you.

    Good Stress relief.

    Breath Ella.

    Carry Serenity with you and things will feel easier.

    Take away the urgency.

    Love you. xoxox



  54.  #54Ella on June 9, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    Hmph… just looked at one of my ex’s new g,friend, and she is so pretty. Her pics are all perfect ie she has perfect hair, slim, perfect make up… takes a good pic, and by some of her comments on the news feed she has a Siren attitude too.

    I feel so jealous.

    I feel so fed up.

    I feel so ugly compared to glamourous girls.

    I want to be glamorous too and not eat too much, and have perfect nails. And my life just isn’t like that!

    AAAAAARGGGGGHHHHHHHH again!

    I feel so frustrated.

    I try to juggle all the balls and I just can’t do it!

    And I feel ‘bad’ because I can’t do it.

    They are so much prettier and slimmer than me and I may as well just give up.

    Nothing works anyway.



  55.  #55Rusty on June 9, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    38: tinqueNo Gravatar says:

    Can’t say for sure, but it’s been a long time. I have a few lawyer friends who concur. I don’t know the case you cite, but it’s possible that wills etc. had been written.

    If there had been no paperwork of some kind, and he had no heirs, family, etc. the state could have seized property, assets, etc. essentially putting the woman out on the street.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Your lawyer friends need to go back to law school. Her name was on the house when the bought a new house. Most states do this. They cannot throw her out of her own home, when her name is on deed. Same for the cars, which her name was on.

    He had not updated his will.

    Now, had he not bought that new home, and her name was not on the deed, then yes. However, what normally happens is that those with claim come forward and it is battled in court. The state only gets it if nobody with legitimate claim comes forward. Statutory laws on how long they have to come forward, I do not know.

    From this watchdog site: http://www.ursenbach.net/govwatcher/services.asp

    “Is it lost forever?

    No, if you have an account that has been seized by a state government you can apply to your state governing body to request that they return your property to you. While this process is not straight forward, you will be able to retrieve your property if you follow the established procedures exactly. (Remember you are dealing with the government, the inventors of red tape, who love to stick by rigid complex rules)

    What if the property belonged to a dead relative, is it lost forever?

    No, if you have legal right to any property seized by a state, you are entitled to the seized property even if it is not in your name. You must have proof of your right to the property such as a will or court order to prove your claim to ownership but the state is required to turn any seized property over to you upon being presented with documentation showing your right to the property.”

    In short, if you are the child of the man, etc… then the court WILL award you the property and you will get a court order stating this. This is then turned in as noted above. Now, if this took so long that the property has already been sold, likely a negotiated settlement will result. In other words…money.

    not having a will does not mean the government has a right to your property, it just means that those with claim must fight for it in court. So the sane thing to do is have a will.

    Now, if this is her main issue, that she doesn’t feel safe because there is no will, then that is an issue that needs to be dealt with. I should note however that if he was paying for the house while she lived in it and he died, if she can get a lawyer to prove that she was earning an income, she DOES have claim to at least part of the house.

    It will be successfully argued that her income also went to pay the mortgage. Likely, they would look at her income vs his, so if she makes 40K and he makes 60K, then she is entitled to 40% of the yearly accrued value gained. In other words, if he had the house half paid off and then she moves in and they end up paying it off, she will be entitled to 20%. Now those figures aren’t exact because other things may come into play, but it is a starting point.

    The real problem here is that it costs money t hire lawyers which is why you take care of things before you die so that it doesn’t cost your loved ones money to fight for what is theirs by right.

    Again, she would want to sit down and talk about this issue. It may be something best done with a third party, like a lawyer, or even a counselor to help get the ball rolling. I understand that she may be reluctant to discuss it for fear of sounding like money is her only issue. She shouldn’t feel that way unless she has zero assets and no income at all, other than something like social security.

    At this point, she has a choice to make. If he can’t or won’t do anything to help ease her fears of being without, in the likelihood that he dies first, then she should look for somebody who is willing to provide her with security.

    This may be an issue with him. I do know men who feel that there is no such thing as love, that all women are “pros” in some fashion or another. I really do know men who feel that women don’t love men, that they only love what you can do for them or give them. On some level, in many cases, they may be right. How many very beautiful women would stay with a man that they married, who was wealthy beyond imagination, then if he loses it all and is homeless…would they stay with him? I would say that some will, and some won’t. Not much different than how some men wouldn’t stay with a woman who was beautiful but no longer is. Some men will stay, some won’t.

    But that is a sign of the times where so many people, if they were honest, their vows would read, “So long as you make me happy.”

    So bottom line, she simply has to figure out what she wants and needs from him, be honest about it, then see where the cards fall. I would advise using sounding boards and or writing things down, then going back later and reading them to see how it feels to read it. Does it say what you mean or does it come across in a way you don’t mean?



  56.  #56Ella on June 9, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    Re 54… Sorry I meant to say… on Facebook.

    She has mutual friends with me, although I don’t know here, hence being able to see her pics, comments etc…



  57.  #57Ella on June 9, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    I feel like the woman in the pic @ the top of this post looks!



  58.  #58Lilybelle on June 9, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    I just got here after work and found this website and what I want to share with you is, imo, quite interested.

    The name of the site is the The Private Man and they have a list of Commandments for both men and women.

    Here are the ones for Women:

    Commandments for Women:
    1. Thou shalt cultivate a feminine demeanor and bearing. Thou shalt not try to be, look like, or act like a man. Thou shalt observe and obey this Commandment above all others.
    2. Thou shalt not use profanity or other coarse language in public.
    3. Thou shalt let the man decide where you will go and what you will do on the first few dates.
    4. Thou shalt not denigrate thy man in public. Ever.
    5. Thou shalt not denigrate or otherwise break bad on thy man to his parents, thy parents, thy coworkers or thy BFFs. Ever.
    6. Thou shalt do some things your man likes to do, such as make his favorite foods, do your hair the way he likes, or wear some clothes he likes.
    7. Thou shalt not let thyself go. Thou shalt give reasonable care and attention to cultivate a pleasing personal appearance.
    8. Thou shalt not try to lead or overrule thy man.
    9. Thou shalt let thy man reciprocate thy kindness.
    10. Thou shalt not act like a princess.

    Next up, men.



  59.  #59Lilybelle on June 9, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    1. Thou shalt devise and implement a life plan, consisting of career path, interests, hobbies and desires; and thou shalt work on and revise said plan as appropriate. Thou shalt observe and obey this Commandment above all others.
    2. Thou shalt learn to be observant of the people and situations around thee. Thou shalt cultivate a thorough understanding of thine own nature and that of the female gender. Said understanding shalt be premised upon established concepts of evolutionary biology, evolutionary psychology and game; not upon political correctness, feminism, or artificial social constructs.
    3. Thou shalt approach and pursue what thy will, within the bounds of legal, moral, and reasonable social constraints. Thou shalt not apologize for approaching an attractive woman.
    4. Thou shalt not be a pussy. Thou shalt walk away and forget it when there is no attraction, she is not interested, or it’s not working. Thou shalt suck it up and move on. Thou shalt not view female rejection as an assessment of thy self-worth.
    5. Thou shalt not force intimacy without first establishing attraction.
    6. Thou shalt not derive thy self-worth from a woman’s opinion of thee.
    7. Thou shalt not place her on a pedestal. Ever.
    8. Thou shalt demonstrate leadership and decisiveness in thy plan and relationships. Thou shalt make and keep dates with thy woman, and thou shalt decide where thee will go and what thee will do on said dates.
    9. Thou shalt learn to tell thy woman “no” when necessary.
    10. Thou shalt not seek, accept, or implement dating or male-female advice from thy female relatives or friends.



  60.  #60Rusty on June 9, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    40: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    Actually Rusty I might be calling you a liar. In yesterday’s post you presented as fact, that women were randomly tested for ovulation in a nightclub without their knowledge, and it was determined they dressed sexier when they were ovulating.

    More likely? You watched a documentary about sexual behavior and ovulation and just “embellished” the details to make a better story. Shrug.

    ____________________________________________________

    Well, it is fact, even if you don’t believe it. No embellishments were needed. The focus was to see if women dressed differently based on their menstrual cycle.

    Not sure where you are from, but researchers are granted a fair amount of money for research and it is understood that in some cases, compensation is required, so I have little doubt that they gave free drinks or admission or something.

    I do remember the video of them interviewing the ladies in a lobby type area just outside of the club and taking pictures of the women.

    It is possible that the ONE and only detail that I have wrong is how they determined that they were ovulating. it may have been a simple question of their periods, as in when did they last have one, etc.. but I don’t think so. I do remember them saying that the women did not know the true nature of the study, that they had been told it was something else.

    This was on either the Discovery Channel or TLC. I thought it was “The Science of Sex Appeal” but those channels had a few such programs and it may have been an early one.

    I will try to find it.



  61.  #61tinque on June 9, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    Well of course if her name was on the deed and the title of the car…like I said, paperwork.



  62.  #62tinque on June 9, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    Ella – Pictures lie. Please keep this close. And so do mirrors.

    xxoo



  63.  #63Rusty on June 9, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    I made the statement before that men have a harder time figuring out if the woman is interested, and this is discussed at 6:50 in this video. This one only discusses why the man would be programmed biologically to not pick up on negative clues, but not why women would play it close to the vest.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9wz_7e0w6M



  64.  #64Rusty on June 9, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    Lily T.

    Here it is, they do the same thing here, but this was done on another documentary and was done in the U.S. This one is done in Vienna Italy. Saliva samples were taken to pinpoint fertility.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHZAl2R_1lw

    Just watch from the beginning.

    I would not doubt that this was done in many locations to prove the science.



  65.  #65Lily T. on June 9, 2011 at 5:14 pm

    Rusty,

    I believe I found it for you. Discovery Channel, “The Science of Sex Appeal” – the nightclub study was done in Vienna, they estimated ovulation through a saliva test from a mobile lab. They photographed women dancing and drew conclusions based on how much they moved and how much skin they showed, that ovulating women were more flirtatious than those who were not ovulating. Interestingly, women who were married/ had a committed partner were the most flirtatious!

    Check the link I posted on #52 – I’m almost positive that’s the doc you saw. Gotta love the internet – learn something new every time you click. 🙂



  66.  #66Lily T. on June 9, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    LOL We were writing at the same time Rusty. 🙂



  67.  #67Rusty on June 9, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    Yeah, this is the 2nd time I have seen this done, and in fact, it may have been the same crew that did the first one I saw. The first one I saw, they did not show the girls dancing and made more to do about the rising hem lines and plunging necklines. And I am pretty sure it was in the U.S. that they did it. Could be wrong, it may have been in Europe also.



  68.  #68Elizabeth on June 9, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    Marriage proposal!!



  69.  #69Elizabeth on June 9, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    have set the stage for no girlfriend speech…



  70.  #70Lily T. on June 9, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    What!!! Elizabeth you got a marriage proposal?



  71.  #71DE on June 9, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    Kaitlyn:

    Remember u are a Siren…thus, u have the right to change u mind about the “friend thing”…

    u also have the right to lean forward if it’s in u best interest…taking care of your feelings…

    if i had felt as u are right now, i would call him again or send him an email and express how i feel…i would admit that it hurts me too much to be a shoulder for a man who is experiencing emotional issues about another woman…it’s pure and simple torture to me…

    but then again, Kaitlyn, u and only u can make that decision…just stay true to u…and he will learn to respect you for setting boundaries…he needs to man up too 🙁

    warm hugs,



  72.  #72Femininewoman on June 9, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    kaitlyn you are observing yourself. That is great. Remember it is not just the words, it is the tone of voice, the vibe and the intention. Nobody is perfect. You will eventually get it. Plus I am sure you will get another chance to really share how you feel. Set your intention to really show up for yourself when you get the next chance.



  73.  #73Rusty on June 9, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    What do you think about the idea though that for women, what makes them fall in love the most is what a man can provide?

    I do know that I have never once cared about what a woman can or would give me, but have always felt that women only cared based on what you are doing for them.

    In these docs they have settled that women, for attraction care just as much about looks as men do, but women can still be swayed to view a man as a potential partner based on the ability to provide. Such as when they used pics and had women rate their looks. Then they did it again and added salaries and a guy that got a very high score was given a very low income of something like $22,000 and one guy who was rated about a 4 was given a very high 6 figure income…like $740,000 or something like that. The guy with the low income dropped and the guy with the high income raised in his attractiveness to an average of something like an 8.

    These docs do talk a lot about this stuff in that women are biologically programmed to look for the best provider they can.

    So if I had to rate it, I would say that men look for primarily two things.

    1. Attraction
    2. Personality

    Women look for 3 or 4 things.

    1. Attraction
    2. Ability to provide
    3. social standing
    4. personality

    My experience is that men will decide if the woman is attractive enough to invest time finding out if the personality is there. Women will determine if those top 3 are checked off before determining if the personality is there.

    By social standing, I mean is the person somebody that their family and friends will respect. Most men could care less really. I mean they might be a little bit worried as to whether they will “like” them but that has nothing to do with social standing. In other words, men aren’t worried if their parents or friends will respect the woman as in she is well educated, accomplished, etc… They MIGHT care that they get along. only the wealthy elite seem to care about the social standing of a woman but what’s funny is it seems to matter more her family than anything she has done.



  74.  #74Elizabeth on June 9, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    Lily T,
    Yes! He is taking himself off the dating site, doesn’t care if I do, is old fashioned about a woman having suitors, and wants to see if we can take this all the way to marriage!! Geeze!!

    xoxo



  75.  #75Femininewoman on June 9, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    Kaitlyn also the last time I checked many relationships are built on a solid foundation of friendship. It is grounds for emotional attachment. I believe as long as you share you want a romantic relationship where you feel solid and not have to share your man’s heart with another woman the “friend” card can be turned around. I would be prepared to repeat myself whenever he brings up the relationship.



  76.  #76Femininewoman on June 9, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    Wow Elizabeth congrats.



  77.  #77DE on June 9, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    I feel so happy for finally getting very good about when it’s okay FOR ME to lean forward…

    I noticed every time I feel tempted to do it..i ask myself…do i have an expectation? if i do…then, i immediately know there are some emotions i need to deal with…so, tools are awesome…then, something fun to take care of me…

    if i don’t …which means…i feel good about expressing/sharing …then i go ahead and call/txt…

    I also learned that i feel pretty comfortable feeling my sadness…i actually feel comforted by it…it brings out tears…once i feel it deeply…then, i feel so much better 🙂



  78.  #78Lily T. on June 9, 2011 at 5:52 pm

    You sound excited and happy Elizabeth. And I’m excited and happy for you! 🙂



  79.  #79Femininewoman on June 9, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    Lilybelle Very interesting info.



  80.  #80Elizabeth on June 9, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    76. Thanks, FW
    oh and you’ll love this…I told him all about the three meanings of “to tame” from the wonderful story I was so touched by that Loneplum told in reference to “The Little Prince”
    apprivoiser, dompter and briser
    and he said he is doing apprivoiser with me….
    swoon…..

    xoxo



  81.  #81Femininewoman on June 9, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    RE 77 DE That is the way I understand leaning forward too. I tend to do it less now though.



  82.  #82Femininewoman on June 9, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    RE 80 woohoo



  83.  #83kaitlyn on June 9, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    A just called me but i was busy.

    What do i say? Help!!

    i’d like to know before i call him. also, he has told me that me listening and being spupportive has drawn him closer to me and that if i’m patient, he can feel good about himself to be a boyfriend again.



  84.  #84Elizabeth on June 9, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    78.
    Thank you Lily T, for being happy and excited for me.
    It’s very nice to feel wanted and to hear that a man wants to make you feel special.
    I am still smarting a little from the last one, so I’m not rushing into anything, and he gets it. He’s just ready to stop playing around and feels he has found the right woman for him and wants to make me feel the same way about him. He is an excellent communicator, but I don’t feel it is in the used car salesman vein. so, we shall see….:-)

    xoxo



  85.  #85DE on June 9, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    FW #81:

    Yes, me too…not as much as before…

    The more we feel ourselves with self-love and appreciation, the less we reach out and rely on others to comfort us…and even if we express our feelings, we have no expectation attached to it…because we know we are/will be OK on our own:) It’s indeed a breakthrough for me 🙂

    Warm hugs,



  86.  #86DE on June 9, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    Kaitlyn:

    Take u time to respond…do u feel okay to talk to him right now??? If I feel too sad, needy…and expect some support/understanding/validation for my feelings from him…then, i will not answer or call him back…until i feel better and can handle being the “therapist”…

    Warm hugs,



  87.  #87Femininewoman on June 9, 2011 at 6:09 pm

    Kaitlun is it a boyfriend you want?



  88.  #88kaitlyn on June 9, 2011 at 6:10 pm

    DE,

    yes, i feel ok. i had to breathe a moment but yes ok now.

    so what do i say? how do i act?



  89.  #89kaitlyn on June 9, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    87 YES

    but i can’t pressure him



  90.  #90Rusty on June 9, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    Elizabeth

    Congratulations! I hope everything works out great for you!



  91.  #91kaitlyn on June 9, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    why am i trippin? we’re long distance anyway until he gets something going west coast again and he doesnt know when that is.



  92.  #92DE on June 9, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    Kaitlyn:

    I would also consider…responding via txt saying:

    “Hello A, it feels good to be appreciated…i admit, i feel very sad and uncomfortable hearing about your ex…right now, i don’t feel good talking or hearing about her…what do think?” something like this…

    what do u think?

    Warm hugs,



  93.  #93Femininewoman on June 9, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    No pressure just want to make sure you are clear about your intentions.



  94.  #94Femininewoman on June 9, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    Kaitlyn I would also stay present and just respond based on what he is bringing up. Stay in the moment.



  95.  #95Elizabeth on June 9, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    Yes, having a relationship/marriage is not a magic bullet.

    Your anxieties, fears, desires come along to the relationship.

    You’re going to have to deal with the same stuff, whether you’re in a relationship or not, no doubt about it.

    Better is to take care of your stuff first and seeing what happens.

    If you put more energy into living a peaceful life and less energy into being dissatisfied with the life you’re leading, you might be very surprised!

    xoxo



  96.  #96Femininewoman on June 9, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    Put your attention in your body, even if you have to ask for a moment to reflect on how you are feeling. Keep I feel in your mind or written on a piece of paper in front of you to help direct your mind as you talk.



  97.  #97Elizabeth on June 9, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    90. Rusty

    Thank you, Rusty! 🙂



  98.  #98DE on June 9, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    Kaitlyn:

    I get a sense of urgency from you…:( i feel very curious as to why you want to talk to him right now?

    A sense of urgency usually suggests we are about to experience past patterns…based on our unconscious…i would really look into it first, before contacting him…

    I learned that buying time to respond to anything in life…is a skill worthy to be acquired…kids, family, men…friends…etc…

    warm hugs,



  99.  #99Elizabeth on June 9, 2011 at 6:18 pm

    Kaitlyn,
    This is what Rori said to me, and I’ll share it with you
    (goes along with what FW says in 96)

    Zero in on how you feel
    and write out how to communicate that.

    xoxo



  100.  #100Femininewoman on June 9, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    RE 95 Elizabeth I am trying to do that in my personal life and professional life. I find I am in a more peaceful place now that feels awesome. My vibe has dialled down from the anger almost 100%.



  101.  #101Elizabeth on June 9, 2011 at 6:24 pm

    100. That’s spectacular, FW. It really makes all the difference, doesn’t it ? xoxo



  102.  #102Femininewoman on June 9, 2011 at 6:24 pm

    RE 98 I was just about to write about the sense of urgency I sensed also. Another coach I have heard suggests building in a pause. Kaitlyn always take a moment to breathe deeply. It calms the body and helps us think clearly.



  103.  #103FlowerChild77 on June 9, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    #37/Rusty and Lily T.

    >>>”What I am not off on was that they were looking for behaviors of women who were fertile vs those who weren’t”<<<

    Ok, this makes much more sense. The 'fertile' days can be calculated (but it does take months of keeping track of the signs, etc.) This is how 'the rhythm method' works. (Worked well for me for about three years.)

    This is way different than watching their behaviors "while they're ovulating" (which can't be exactly pin-pointed with this method alone…and also does not cover all the fertile days.)

    Watching behavior on what were calculated to be 'fertile days' vs. behavior of women who were in a different part of their cycle (not fertile) would be possible to plan and document.



  104.  #104DE on June 9, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    FW #102:

    Yes, I love the suggestion!!! 🙂 It’s should be done first…i guess for me it has become 2nd nature…when i write on the blog, i am often in hurry…:(

    hmm…just noticed…this feels more like a sense of urgency for myself…to help someone or fix something quickly…:( interesting…

    Warm hugs,



  105.  #105Senior Lady Vibe on June 9, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    @55: Rusty says:

    “…Your lawyer friends need to go back to law school. Her name was on the house when the bought a new house. Most states do this…”

    Most states do what? I don’t plan to go back to law school even though I’m not aware of such. Are you saying there is statute law that an escrow closing does not take place unless live-in girlfriends are granted title rights by deed?

    It sounds TOTALLY ludicrous but I’ll look at your citation if there is one. Strange things happen and I keep an open mind.

    I haven’t worked in the real property rights arena in a long time and I’d especially like to brush up on current marital rights law. But Rusty, it sounds like somebody’s been fibbing you.

    xoxo
    SLV



  106.  #106kaitlyn on June 9, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    called him back and he didnt answer. fine because my nv’s are attacking.

    i ruin everything with my constant need for validation



  107.  #107Elizabeth on June 9, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    kaitlyn, i suggest diverting your attention from this right now. you seem a bit too obsessed, like you’ve whipped yourself into a frenzy over it. Can you change your location, or at least go do an activity that brings you joy, do something else that you really like to do that gets you into that “flow” space, so you can switch gears here?



  108.  #108Senior Lady Vibe on June 9, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    @80: Elizabeth says:
    “…I was so touched by that Loneplum told in reference to “The Little Prince”
    apprivoiser, dompter and briser
    and he said he is doing apprivoiser with me….
    swoon…..”

    OMG, I think I’m going to swoon too. You’ve got yourself a manly man. He’s confident enough to compete for you! Well, do you like this man? love this man. I’m excited just hearing about it.

    xoxo
    SLV



  109.  #109Femininewoman on June 9, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    kaitlyn get your attention out of your head put it in your body. Touch things around you, feel the texture. Check how your stomach feels, your chest, your shoulders, your back, see if your hands are sweaty, your heart racing.



  110.  #110Rusty on June 9, 2011 at 6:55 pm

    What do you ladies think about the Meyers-Briggs?

    Do you think that a lot of our problems that we experience in dating is because we are dating people that are not good matches for us, even though many of our laundry list may be met by this person, it may just turn out that they are the wrong person for us.

    For instance, I think Daria, based on her pics, is a very pretty woman and in many ways seems very nice. In short, if I met someone like her, when I was single, I would likely ask for a date.

    However, I think we both agree that our personalities aren’t a mesh. For instance she made this post.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    409: Daria says:

    Man : you got me lost!

    Me : ohh I feel bad! I don’t want to be blamed… I feel scared

    Omgosh feels so scary! To say!

    I clammed up!
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Now I am assuming she means literally lost. Now for me, a response like that would drive me up the wall. I need to be able to communicate without feeling like I have to walk on eggshells for fear of hurting somebody’s feeling all the time. I mean if you got me lost, you got me lost, and I may say so. For me, this isn’t so much to blame but start a conversation about what I need for directions. Or, it is just statement about the facts of the situation. As in, you got me lost. At the same time, I will likely be over it. Or I may be simply looking for an “Oh…sorry about that.” and then it is forgotten.

    Daria is not wrong for how she handled this. The simple fact is, that we, and the Meyers-Briggs state that we are not a match in personality.

    But like I said, suppose I were closer to her age, was single, and we met and tried to date. We would likely end up very unhappy. In fact, it is almost assured we would.

    So I do know that if I were to be single again, I would use the Meyers Briggs to look for a mate.



  111.  #111Mel on June 9, 2011 at 7:03 pm

    Hey Rusty,

    Thanks for your insight on the porn thing. I’m still thinking about the reason for use though.

    I get that men have a “need” to look at beauty and that porn could be a way for him to get that variety that he is looking for.

    The problem becomes wen it appears that he would PREFER to use porn because it’s easy and he’s tired and as a result completely neglects the needs of his partner.

    It can also become the case that real sex becomes “blah” because it just doesn’t have the same level of stimulation.

    I think (in my opinion) some guys don’t realize that it’s even happening.

    But the thing is (as I think Lucy said) HE has to see it is a problem and WANT to change.



  112.  #112Gingersky on June 9, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    Hey all, I’m back 🙂

    Am about to introduce another friend to this community tomorrow. She’s coming over and we’ll be looking at Rori’s site together.

    Ella, I have much info for you on how to give yourself a makeover if you want, and to maintain a natural beauty that is yours alone 🙂 You are beautiful, and you have your own flair and flavor… so if you’re cinnamon don’t try to be chocolate… if you’re Italian food, don’t try to be a Southern potato salad (or vice versa)… a good man is out there who is looking for just the flavor you bring!

    Brenda, hey woman! I’ve missed you! (And you are definitely a sweet & spicy flavor, lol!)

    Have missed others here too! XOX

    Lilybelle, the commandments are cracking me up! LOL! Many thanks!

    Tinque, you are awesome… my friend also needs your info/advice for her situation. We will be looking at your website also tomorrow.

    We are all here trying to get the money to buy all Rori’s (and Tinque’s) products. We are dedicated, *grateful* and leaning back — and talking maybe weekly about how *awesome* the results are when you have even a little info on it. We can’t wait to get the rest of the info 🙂

    Also, some of you here seem v depressed. That makes me feel sad and scared, like I want to hold you and shine sunlight on you (and more). Like Tinque said, we are all love, and loved by our Creator. I float in and out of “depression” sometimes too… it’s my energy twisted into a form that is not it’s original natural form… deep-pressed and not flowing. I have come through a lot lately, and others close to me even more. Depression is understandable but it is not helpful or True… maybe an indicator (and a lie in a way) that is there to lead us to Creator/Source and Truth… I have my beliefs and my way of engaging that. Times are hard lately for many, and the economic problems have taken our ability to cover over our pains and fears with pleasure and purchased safety? I pray much for you all who are feeling depressed. And I lift gratitude for you and the energy you are, and the energy that you have been given. Blessings 🙂



  113.  #113Gingersky on June 9, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    FeminineWoman 109
    Very good advice, I agree! Ground and center, and be present to the present/gift of THIS moment, however it feels?



  114.  #114Mel on June 9, 2011 at 7:11 pm

    “He’s feeling intensely angry with you for making him choose.

    He’s in an untenable position. He feels totally like a child – with you his mother telling him what he can and can’t do.

    And he’s acting like a child.

    Instead of dealing with his situation and making some kind of decision and taking care of himself – he’s simply seeing the other woman as his salvation – and you as his jailer.

    And most of us can identify with that.”

    ________________________

    Wow! This is powerful stuff!

    I can totally see this pattern in my relationship. “Tell” anyone not to do something and it becomes all the more alluring. I’m realizing now that I CAN’T tell him not to watch porn, or go out with other women, or visit dating sites. This would be forcing him to choose and he’ll just resent me for having to make the choice. This can easily explain some of the recent “childish” rebellious behavior.

    So what do you do if you’re not okay with these things? How do you state your boundaries without telling him what he can/cannot do? Rori says never to tolerate… but we I know we can’t control anyone either.

    I hope she expands on this a bit more.

    Anyone else have any ideas?



  115.  #115Gingersky on June 9, 2011 at 7:16 pm

    #77 DE
    Very well said/described… thank you *so* much for sharing… big hugs!



  116.  #116DE on June 9, 2011 at 7:23 pm

    Gingersky 115:

    Welcome back 🙂 Thank you for the hugs 🙂

    Back at u darling 😉



  117.  #117Elizabeth on June 9, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    108. SLV

    I’m happy that you’re excited about it! Gives us hope that those manly men confident enuff to compete for us are out there, and yes, so far, I like him a lot. It’s a very easy, peaceful synergy…feels natural and healthy…much more so than than that headiness accompanied by the “gina tingle”, as they say in the Manosphere 😉

    xoxo



  118.  #118Gingersky on June 9, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    #112 Mel
    I don’t know your whole situation… but it sounds like you may benefit from saying “I feel bad (description here) when I think of you looking at porn or seeing other women. I don;t want to feel this bad feeling… and I’m not sure what I want to do about it yet.” Lean back, be in your body, feel how much power you have to choose and to feel your real feelings and listen to them. That’ll likely leave him on his toes a bit, and leave you unpredictable in his mind in a way that helps the situation.

    And in a way which Rori says is good? This may be a good place to start? Or maybe you;ve already done that sort of thing w him?

    I assume you’re familiar with Tinque’s website… she went thru this porn thing w her hubby. She wrote a book etc about it.



  119.  #119DE on June 9, 2011 at 7:31 pm

    Rusty #110″

    Sorry, i don’t share u enthusiasm in this 🙁

    I feel kind of bored …and that feels like a big yawn…:(

    A friend of mine was obsessed ab it too a few years back…had me do the test (she did it for me)…she literally chose her husband using this test…gosh, but the way she was described by others (okay, i agreed with them sometimes)…is more like the sphinx woman …:( Very logical thinker…she could sympathize with u…but I never felt empathy from her…so, thus, never a deep connection…people were disposable in her book…like me…:(

    on a different note, yes, i agree is a very valuable tool to be used in the business world…yet, i don’t want a relationship that resembles that…i want an organic feeling exchange and experience…:)

    warm hugs,



  120.  #120Gingersky on June 9, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    #34 Rusty
    It’s v synchronistic that you posted this about Aussie culture. I actually called Australia for the 1st time in my life today bc I have a new guy friend here from an Asian country who was living in Au recently, and he’s been telling me lots about it, as well as about his own country. What you shared adds more to what he’s shared w me.

    He describes the women there as very much leaning forward big-time, all the time, apparently. This way of dating & culture would *NOT* go well w me! I would not tolerate that nonsense.

    Very interesting.



  121.  #121Gingersky on June 9, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    (fwiw I called Au bc we are trying to work on a problem he has there.)



  122.  #122DE on June 9, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    Tinque:

    Remember i was sharing my fear that maybe my pics may be too good for whom i am in reality?

    well, my last nite date told me he knew i am so much more than the pics…:)

    yay, i felt melty and soft hearing that…:)

    tonite, another date…with the G spot guy …lol…we are having dinner…i feel curious if i can still feel a connection with him…if i think of sex, yes…but the rest, i don’t know :)…

    okay, i feel open to being surprised…since sex is out of the question right now…

    warm hugs,



  123.  #123RiverGirl on June 9, 2011 at 7:43 pm

    @51

    I did a representative survey of Australian women on this blog (n =1). Overwhelmingly the response was that they require at least a side of beef! I think Rosa might be an Aussie too, what is your price Rosa?



  124.  #124FlowerChild77 on June 9, 2011 at 7:52 pm

    Well, here in this state, if there is no will, the relatives are sorted through ie: no wife or children–then it would go to his parents (if alive) then siblings, children of siblings and eventually the state.

    I just went through this with my own family. I find it interesting that I have been found to be ‘no one’ in my family of origin and here I am in the same situation with xbf.

    I have put a lot of sweat equity into that house and it was done with love. I don’t regret it, nor will I ever, but I can’t invest any more of myself in him and/or the relationship knowing that it’s ok with him that when he dies I’ll be kicked out of the house and must start all over from scratch…alone.

    By being the eternal girlfriend I am saying it’s ok that I’m “nobody.” No matter how many years go by, I will never be recognized as ‘anybody’ to him, as we are not married. It has nothing to do with me worrying that he’d leave me. It’s about being honest…about what I want and need.

    If he only loves me ‘in the moment’ I can appreciate the hell out of that—but I think I deserve to be loved enough to have my future considered.

    At least now I have my own place (a rented house) and my own life. I’m trying to let go of the outcome.

    I miss him like crazy…I went out to the house to pick lilacs today. I knew he wouldn’t be there….trying not to lean forward. I miss working outside with him and tilling up the garden and planting trees and watching for the full moon. I live right by the water also–and he calls me when the moon is pretty and asks me if I can see it from here.

    Makes me cry to think of it…man, I’ve got it ‘bad’ girls.

    Ella, I hope you enjoy the time with your mom. I know what you mean about things that make us feel good about ourselves–for me it’s face/eye cream and hair-color! I’ve found a few store-brand creams that work as well as the top dollar ones. And the $3.00 hair color from the Dollar Store works well enough–covers up the grey! I splurge every once in awhile and get a name brand hair color. Also fragrance–I always have a small bottle of “good” perfume—makes me feel sexy!

    >>”A sense of urgency usually suggests we are about to experience past patterns”<<

    I have to keep this in mind—always. Now that I know to STOP when I feel that sense (of urgency) I think I can get through this without repeating my old patterns.

    Baby steps…(and a box of tissues)

    I would be so lost if I didn't have this blog and you all to talk to…



  125.  #125RiverGirl on June 9, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    @120
    Gingersky and Rusty,

    I’m just skimming today and haven’t followed the whole conversation but I’m triggered by what seem like generalisations about Australian men and women.

    I feel defensive. Our dating “culture” is certainly very different from how I perceive the American dating culture to be. Aussie men are mostly very laid back, so are most Aussie women. My experience is overwhelmingly that men pay when dating or courting (haha, seems funny to use such an old fashioned word). My male friends acquaintances pay for dinner with their dates and shout drinks for girls at bars even if it is just a gathering of friends. Perhaps the difference is that we don’t EXPECT it. But we do appreciate it.



  126.  #126Gingersky on June 9, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    #110 & 119
    Rusty, I love the Meyers-Briggs, but I also agree w DE that I want an organic feeling and experience, with mystery/yumminess/surprise as well as to scope someone out a bit. And I add that people are entire universes inside, so as much as I adore playing and learning with personality inventories etc, they can’t adequately explain people really. I use M-B as an after-the-fact check-in when I first like a man… just to see if I’ll be comfortable (or *possibly* compatible) w him and not get too sharply surprised (I’m so familiar with it and have dated so much I kind of know which types work for me, but I DO NOT just adhere to it period.) It gives me a heads-up on what kinds of commonalities or problems I might encounter, but I don’t have a man take the questionnaire. I don’t think that it works anyway. I just got familiar with the types, so can slot someone a bit but hold that slotting loosely. The main thing I think the M-B is good for in personal relationships is in helping us understand and accept ourselves, and in letting others BE themselves… as it says in my fave M-B book by Kiersy & Bates, “Please Understand Me”.

    But I admit there have been times in my life when I just wanted to give any interesting man a big multi-phase questionnaire and use every available tool to protect myself, plan strategically who to be with, avoid the pain/awkwardness/guessowrk/delay etc… however, this always amounted to making me lean forward a lot and be in my head, so all men got angry/turned off/disappeared etc around me at those times. Looking back, I would have been better off at those times to circular date lightly and gently, even if it meant simply feeling my own feelings and how good it felt to look at naure’s beauty and other things I love (instead of getting depressed/fearful/lonely)… I live in a smallish city where there aren’t lots of options and most people know each other (and many guys truly are not v desirable types, so dating a lot can be difficult here… although all it takes is one good/compatible one!)

    The good news is that nowadays lots of people know their M-B type (from having classes or jobs where they took the test), so you can sometimes just ask. Or as I prefer, give them the book and let them pick out who they think they are (which to me is more accurate). If a guy isn’t interested in that sort of thing, he would automatically not be compatible w me bc I love that stuff, and I would see that self-discovery (or understanding me or others) etc is not a value for him. I find guys don’t get totally enthusiastic about it unless it’s part of their profession, but a little healthy momentary interest in it is a plus and an attraction for me. Maybe it would be for you as well, since you find it interesting?

    (Also, if you’re interested in other similar personality typing things, let me know, I can share some others if you’re interested 🙂



  127.  #127Gingersky on June 9, 2011 at 8:05 pm

    #15 kaitlyn It’s Brenda’s birthday? Happy Birthday, Brenda! xox!

    kaitlyn, I hope this all works out for you… I like your passion, honesty, guts, vulnerability, tenacity, humanity… I don’t remember if we ever “talked” before… I hope an amazing man shows up for you if this one doesn’t come thru 😉



  128.  #128Gingersky on June 9, 2011 at 8:10 pm

    #125 Rivergirl
    Thank you! You’re right, it’s so easy to generalize people. I was just noticing how this escription here fit my friend’s descriptions… I wondered how it could be. Maybe like I tell him about the US, we are multicultural so different people and different cliques etc do it differently, so you can find any possible option here. And different cities are different from each other too.

    It feels better to know we were generalizing and getting triggered ourselves to think a whole nation had a dating ritual that felt so bad to imagine! Thanks for straightening us out!



  129.  #129Gingersky on June 9, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    124: FlowerChild77

    Boy how I relate to you on this… soul to soul & heart to heart, thank you for sharing this.



  130.  #130Emerson on June 9, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    #74 Elizabeth
    Congratulations! This is very exciting news!

    #39 Gina Happy birthday and welcome to the 30’s! I’m about to leave them as I soon to turn 40!!! Yes, very interesting how we all have birthdays close to each other!

    Brenda happy birthday!

    Kaitlyn said:
    “….i’ve cried all day.

    he says he still has romantic feelings for me but doesnt want to be my or anyone’s bf right now.

    i wish i was dead”

    Kaitlyn my heart goes out to you and I’m sorry you are going through all this. I feel concerned when I hear things like wishing you were dead. ;-(

    From what I’ve read in your posts, it is evident that you are a caring person with a big heart.



  131.  #131RiverGirl on June 9, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    @ 128

    Gingersky, thank you, I feel better having read that.

    My thoughts are that the last couple of generations have completely changed the masculine/feminine dynamic, in the western world at least. The women’s movement has brought so many positive changes to our lives, but it has also caused major disruption to the way men and women relate to each other in a relationship sense. Rori’s approach, imo, is helping bring masculinity and femininity back to a more natural balance. I love that I have more awareness about this since stumbling onto Rori’s programmes.

    I believe, that if people are consistently experiencing others as being very forward leaning, or very laid back, it is probably showing more about how they are behaving than the people they are meeting.



  132.  #132Lucy on June 9, 2011 at 8:50 pm

    Wow, Rori, I feel impressed with how you addressed this situation.



  133.  #133Daria on June 9, 2011 at 8:58 pm

    Rusty – oh wow! i feel surprised

    i thought that everyone would agree that “you got me lost” is a statement that would trigger anyone

    like it places the blame on the other person

    but for you to say that ok, you would say this, makes it a touch easier for me to say okay… maybe its just a perception thing

    for me being told “you got me lost” … i feel FURIOUS

    it feels so unfair, i actually freeze up and feel scared to even say anything

    and also, he was dropping me off, and i did not have us lost..he was worried about how he would get back

    yeah i definintely can’t tolerate being talked to that way in a relationship

    at least not at the level of communication and relation skills i have right now



  134.  #134Daria on June 9, 2011 at 8:59 pm

    thank you for the birthday wishes ladies 🙂



  135.  #135Daria on June 9, 2011 at 9:02 pm

    with that guy, the thing is i didnt respond that way, i rather clammed up and then told him how to get back, i imght have said a i dont want to argue

    we kissed

    but inside, it pretty much KILLED my safety feeling with him and i feel very dissapointed about that,

    🙁



  136.  #136Daria on June 9, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    am feeling so sad

    am feeling sad and lonely

    theres a guy who is here to see me… i wonder if he’s outside…

    i dono

    i don’t really like the way he communicates with me

    mph

    was feeling sad earlier

    with little touches of wow!

    but then back to feeling lonely

    i also think i mostly feel tired



  137.  #137AmazingME on June 9, 2011 at 9:16 pm

    Hello sirens…I need help, some guidance. I am going to try to sum it up. I am in love with a man that is not stepping up exactly. I have shown interest in him, used to be obsessed pre Rori. I have leaned way back and he surfaced in my life again. Well he has done or said some pretty mean things, made me feel horrible. I walked away from him back then because of it and like I said he resurfaced all by himself. Things are better, We have a chemistry when we are together. He has made me feel incredible without even trying. Problem is he is not looking for a relationship, I am 31 have 3 beautiful children and am looking for a stable relationship one day. Do I remain friends with him though it kills me to not have him the way I want or do I walk away AGAIN??? I am focused on other things, I love my life, my kids are great, love my job and my family is amazing. I get out of the house, go shopping and beautify myself often. I feel good but what do I do??



  138.  #138Nikita on June 9, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    Happy bday Brenda

    And Gina 🙂

    Daria 🙂

    Soooooo many geminis!!!! Wow



  139.  #139Lucy on June 9, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    29 Rusty. You miss the point here. 1) The fact that it “has nothing to do with” the wife is not a Good thing – it is the Problem. She doesn’t want her husband having sexual experiences involving other women and leaving her out. 2) She is usually not worried about him having an in person affair. She dislikes what is Actually happening – not what Might but likely won’t happen. 3) It’s telling that you compare it to a cigarette addiction… addictions, incl sexual ones, are harmful to relationships.



  140.  #140Lucy on June 9, 2011 at 9:35 pm

    If a man wants to have sexual experiences with women besides his wife, my perspective is that she would be free to pursue sexual experiences of her choice with other men as well. I respect the men I know who have this understanding and who honor their wives’ and their own sexual needs by either both being exclusive or both non-exclusive.



  141.  #141RiverGirl on June 9, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    Processing out loud about masculinity and femininity.

    Dr Paul believes that masc and fem are located in the reptilian brain (triune brain theory). That would mean that it is instinctual and not largely affected by learning and culture; they involve higher level brain function. Sexual attraction is a reptilian brain function.

    Emotions occur in the mammalian part of our brain and this is the part of the brain responsible for love and friendship. Logic, common goals, beliefs, values etc and functions of the higher brain and are influential in partnership.

    Bringing the two together, when we are leaning back (Rori style) and allowing a man to nuture us and advice us. And when we admire his career and appreciate him, we are boosting his masculinity and thereby boosting sexual attraction.

    When we are being authentic and expressing our feelings, we are allowing him to feel safe to do the same. This is influencing the emotional brain in each of us and allows us to form friendships and to fall in love. We are boosting each others ego and building each others self esteem…any wonder it feels good to be in love! Personality style also plays a role here, and according to Dr Paul, opposite styles usually fit best as our strengths and weaknesses compliment each other. Similar maturity levels seem to attract each other.

    We use our higher brain to discover whether we have shared values and beliefs, we need to be in basic agreement here if there is to be a long lasting and successful partnership. This is also the part of the brain where we define our boundaries around what we require and are prepared to do within a relationship. This is where we decide if this person is marriage material and where we negotiate with each other.

    Ok, so now I think I get how it supposed to work. Just need to find Mr Step Guy and let him see me. Hmmm, think this must be where the circular dating comes in!!!!



  142.  #142RiverGirl on June 9, 2011 at 9:43 pm

    Happy Birthday Daria !!!!



  143.  #143Senior Lady Vibe on June 9, 2011 at 9:52 pm

    @123: RiverGirl says:
    ” Overwhelmingly the response was that they require at least a side of beef! …”

    I certainly think so! Maybe a few of those gals are letting the guys get take advantage of the women’s desire to develop themselves. Shame on those men.

    I’ll have to ask my Aussie guy friend about this dating pattern; however, he was a little inattentive to my schedule in the two few weeks so now he’s “Wow! having trouble catching up with you” on the Interwebz. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

    xoxo
    SLV



  144.  #144Lucy on June 9, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    Hehe I will have to ask my cute Aussie cyberman about their dating customs… see if it matches up.



  145.  #145Lucy on June 9, 2011 at 10:44 pm

    Right, her name on the deed is legally unrelated to their relationship if they are not married. They are simply co-owners of the property. Even if she is paying All the mortgage, if her name is Not on the deed, she has no legal claim to the property. We just went through this whole thing with our lawyer.



  146.  #146Lucy on June 9, 2011 at 10:59 pm

    73 Rusty. I totally fit your description of the man there – attraction, then personality. All the stuff you wrote about men is true of me, and not what you wrote about women.



  147.  #147gina on June 9, 2011 at 11:12 pm

    bummed that my bf didn’t join me to ring in my bday tonight. I know she’ll help me ring in my 30th this weekend sometime…but I guess I hoped she’d be there when it turned midnight. But she had too much wine and didn’t feel like coming out. I feel judgmental of her as a “bad friend” and want to dwell on all the nice things I’ve done for her. And yet, I don’t want anyone to be a slave for my happiness, cause I don’t want to be a slave for their’s, so I guess I’ll suck it up and accept that I can’t control her or anyone. plus, I do feel loved in general, so I’ll accept it…plus I got love from other people. thank you world..



  148.  #148Lucy on June 9, 2011 at 11:13 pm

    110 Rusty. If you used myers-briggs to choose a mate, what m-b type would you look for? am curious…



  149.  #149Brenda on June 9, 2011 at 11:37 pm

    Gingersky,

    RE: #112 – Welcome back! I’ve missed you! I appreciate your insightful comments on deep-pression! Never thought of it THAT way before…excellent!



  150.  #150Brenda on June 9, 2011 at 11:39 pm

    LOL! I’m getting a kick out of all the birthday wishes! Cuz ya know what? It feels like a rebirth!! I have a whole new life, getting out of my deep-pressing, dark, basement apartment and staying with these wonderful people. But nope, it’s not my birthday.

    Kaitlyn wrote that mistakenly, probably intending to wish Goddess Daria a happy birthday! My birthday was in January.

    Lucy’s birthday is on the 11th! Happy early birthday, Lucy!



  151.  #151Lucy on June 9, 2011 at 11:40 pm

    133 Daria. I’m with you on the blame-shifting. It’s a form of scapegoating, control, and not taking responsibility, and it works against connection and intimacy. On eharmony it is listed as one of the choices for “can’t stand/dealbreaker.” With Rori’s tools there is hope to turn it around, and I think you gave it a good start in the right direction by at least sharing a bit of your feelings about it. <3



  152.  #152Daria on June 9, 2011 at 11:44 pm

    Aww Gina ! Happy birthday!



  153.  #153Lucy on June 9, 2011 at 11:46 pm

    I prefer the Enneagram to myers-briggs for assessing relationship compatibility. It measures not only personality and temperament, but also the Health of the personality within their type. Emotional health is far more important than type. Unless of course you are yourself unhealthy, in which case you will do better with someone who is equally unhealthy. I also administer an IQ test to all my dates to make sure they are at least as smart as me. Haha, just kidding about that last bit. 😀



  154.  #154Daria on June 9, 2011 at 11:46 pm

    I feel flattered that Rusty would ask me for a date. 🙂

    Thanks for the compliments Rusty 🙂



  155.  #155Daria on June 9, 2011 at 11:48 pm

    Lucy – lol!! time to administer the IQ!

    I feel a bit reassured reading your comment on the blame thingy…
    thanks!



  156.  #156Daria on June 9, 2011 at 11:50 pm

    ok so remember how i was just feeling sad and lonely?

    and now this guy that i felt distant with last time i met him, asked to see me for a lil bit before picking up his brother

    so i just went and got back from that a few hours ago

    well guess what!!!!????!!!!

    he went down on me!!

    wooo hooo!!!

    i am now having an abundance of men going down on me

    well 2 in the past 3 nights

    wow!!!!



  157.  #157Daria on June 9, 2011 at 11:51 pm

    also old men like Dman called today,

    and another guy i thought was cute got in contact wiht me

    and i met a cute young one and a step up one out at the park today



  158.  #158Daria on June 9, 2011 at 11:52 pm

    AmazingMe – sounds like … walk away again

    otherwise, circular date and keep dating him as well



  159.  #159Daria on June 9, 2011 at 11:54 pm

    woo hoo i am a slut!

    i also had a nice feeling convo with my sister 🙂

    and

    was feeling a bit triggered as i had went ahead and discussed with a couple men, including the one from tonight, 3 days ago, that i hadn’t had sex in a year

    but now i just Did have sex, and i feel a bit afraid

    i did not tell them that

    but i noticed i felt less attractive in my thoughts

    as in now that i’ve had sex, i won’t be as desirable as a woman who has been celibate

    and i know this is not true!

    and i love me and all my triggers im healing ! yaya



  160.  #160Emerson on June 10, 2011 at 12:02 am

    I feel like I don’t know how to relate to people online, in general.

    In person I do fine. I can interact and relate to a variety of people, cultures, walks of life. But online, I don’t have that live radar and cannot guage people. It’s a little difficult me.

    I feel disconnected from this blog and also from the online dating site people that I’ve corresponded with. There is a disconnect because I haven’t quite figured out how to relate to people over a keyboard.

    I feel frustrated.
    I love my frustration.
    I love my poor online relational skills.
    I love my in person good relational skills.

    Thank you for exercising.
    Thank you for fixing lunch for tomorrow.
    Thank you for washing my face and putting lotion on
    Thank you for getting me ice water.



  161.  #161Lucy on June 10, 2011 at 12:02 am

    Yay Daria! Hooray for men going down. Hehe.



  162.  #162Lucy on June 10, 2011 at 12:09 am

    Hi Emerson. My daughter is that way too – has a hard time relating to ppl online and does much better irl. I don’t know if this is a factor, but she is very right-brained – 70% – and only 30% left-brained. I am roughly 50/50, and do equally well online and irl. I’m sorry you are having a hard time. My d gave up trying online dating bc of it. But now she is trying some other things that suit her better. <3



  163.  #163Emerson on June 10, 2011 at 12:22 am

    Thanks Lucy. I think I’m like your daughter, a lot more right brained. I haven’t renewed my online membership for any sites because of the weirdness.
    I always felt uncomfortable with it anyway, just did it because I thought I was missing out. I do better just meeting people ‘Live’….

    Anyway, I appreciate the feedback!



  164.  #164Daria on June 10, 2011 at 12:53 am

    Oh and two days ago, I did what Lucy you and someone else talked about which is rub my clitoris during sex and it made sex feel soo much better yum yum and I thunk I had gspot orgasms and stuff..

    And it really kept the condom from making a burning feeling too

    Yay!



  165.  #165Daria on June 10, 2011 at 1:00 am

    But for some reason it still felt kinda boring

    I remember when I first had sex, I was so aroused I was shaking uncontrollably for a couple hours

    Now it felt more like I’m getting a massage. Almost like, unimportant. 🙁

    I don’t evenfeel excited to celebrate that I was orgasming the whole time

    It’s like em yah ok cool

    🙁

    Sex used to feel so magical and exciting

    I love me and all I’m learning



  166.  #166Femininewoman on June 10, 2011 at 1:07 am

    Happy Birthday Gina!!!!



  167.  #167DE on June 10, 2011 at 1:34 am

    Wow…really? Then, Happy B-day Lucy!!!! Best wishes of love and happiness 🙂

    Warm hugs,



  168.  #168DE on June 10, 2011 at 1:35 am

    Happy B-day Gina!!!! Best wishes to you 🙂 Love and lots of happiness darling ;0

    Warm hugs,



  169.  #169Dawn on June 10, 2011 at 1:48 am

    Being still
    Just being
    No analising
    No presunptions
    No expectations
    Just breathing



  170.  #170Ella on June 10, 2011 at 1:58 am

    Daria,

    Ow, Congratulations on having sex!

    🙂

    Weird it didn’t feel as xciting as it used to.

    Maybe it IS less important than it used to be an other stuff really IS more important.

    Maybe once we are married the sex will change again.

    What do you think?

    I feel like I haven’t had good sex for so long… that when I do I am going to play this song:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQlIhraqL7o

    xoxoxox



  171.  #171SunflowerinJuly on June 10, 2011 at 1:59 am

    My “man” is going through a rough patch that just doesn’t want to end, his mother died of cancer last year and he’s having problems with his family because of work and because he wants to marry me and they hate me for some reason without even knowing me. Before her death he was a loving caring incredible man who always made me feel loved. Since she died hes been progressively getting more and more distant, i admit i made some mistake learning forwards trying to help but it’s only because he accused me of not being there for him. He has completely changed and can’t stop feeling for himself, drinking again and being distant with me. He’s become manipulative, but he feels he has doubts about our relationship. I have told him I wont let him blame me for everything bad going on in his life, and that Im trying my best.

    Since reading rori raye I understand a lot more, and I am starting to use her tools, the only thing that’s stopping me is this guilty feeling like his mother died and he adored her more than anything, and he says im not affectionate enough not loving enough, and makes me feel guilty, I’ve left him many times because of the things he did, but my guilt keeps me going back, and I feel like he feels that and uses it against me. At what point do I have to stop being at his side, without accusing me of leaving him at the lowest point in his life? I know he loves me and im his first love, but I lost my father too and don’t want to have regrets that I wasn’t there. He keeps reminding me that when I had issues, he loved me unconditionally and was there for me which is true and really helped me though my depression. So I’m stuck between this and leaving him and seeking better. He’s really starting to lose it and I although I know i deserve better, i think i owe it to him at least to be there for him like he was there for me.



  172.  #172Ella on June 10, 2011 at 2:05 am

    I am feeling much calmer this morning.

    Stayed at my mum’s house last night and had a really good sleep.

    My goals for today are to carry a sense of calm with me all day, even when things get pressured or tricky.

    I will take a breath, and step back. There is no rush. It will get done and me rushing and panicky doesn’t help anything.

    So goal 1 – Remain calm.

    Goal 2 – Limit/minimise sugar intake today.

    Goal 3 – Max 3 cups of tea or coffee. In fact only 1 cup of coffee as my tolerance for it seems quite low.

    Goal 4 – Eat calmly and reasonably healithily and don’t eat whilst doing other stuff.

    Goals for the weekend.

    Tonight – No alcohol.

    Saturday – I am going to drink AND I AM GOING TO MINIMISE IT.

    So Goal – drink but very slowly. Still feel feelings. Stop and check in with self regularly. Have water. Do EFT to prevent just drinking more and more.

    Remember boundaries around pub man.

    Ok, Good Luck Siren Ella.

    Lets go start our day.

    xoxoxoxo



  173.  #173Butterfly Wings on June 10, 2011 at 3:09 am

    34: Rusty – I don’t know where Nicole’s friend lives, but it’s certainly not my part of Australia!

    I have only ever been on one date where a guy let me pay half. And he never got a second date.

    If a guy asks me out, then HE pays. After a few dates, I may offer to pay, but not always.

    Never is it assumed by me or anybody I know, that if he asks me out on a date, then I pay my way.

    That would feel awful. If a guy wants to impress me, then he’s gonna have to pay up or I’ll think he’s cheap. 🙂



  174.  #174Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 3:38 am

    @147: gina says:
    “…bummed that my bf didn’t join me to ring in my bday tonight….”

    That is a disappointment but it’s not too late to celebrate your birthday. I like birthdays. Here’s what I do for mine: I have a month of “birthday” and the first day is my actual birthday and I have some celebration and treats for a month.

    When the month is over, the following calendar month I have a mini-birthday gift or treat on the number day of my birthday and thereafter each month the same.

    That makes a month of birthday and ten additional “little birthdays.” Yippee! 😀

    So… celebrate.

    xoxo
    SLV



  175.  #175Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 3:43 am

    @150: Brenda says:
    “Kaitlyn wrote that mistakenly, probably intending to wish Goddess Daria a happy birthday! My birthday was in January.
    Lucy’s birthday is on the 11th! Happy early birthday, Lucy!…”

    Ha! I thought I was losing it because I remembered your birthday in the winter. There suddenly seems to be a lot of birthdays or maybe I’m just noticing because I’m a Gemini too… 😆

    xoxo
    SLV



  176.  #176Queenbee on June 10, 2011 at 4:29 am

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY DARIA, LUCY and GINA! Hope you are having a lovely Siren-y day.

    Hope your birthday wish comes true very soon 🙂

    Hugs x



  177.  #177Lily T. on June 10, 2011 at 5:06 am

    Flowerchild 77,

    Have you talked to your long time partner about how you will be protected if something should happen to him? It feels very unfair to me that during your 12 yr. partnership, he put his money into something that became an asset (and his alone), while you paid for everything else making it possible and are left with nothing. How can he not see that?

    I know you want marriage, partly for the financial/having a home protection, but would you and he consider any alternatives? Would he consider putting you on the deed to the house? Creating an iron-clad will that left you the property and any other tangible assets accumulated?

    If he doesn’t want to marry after 12 good yrs. together, and after you leaving him over it, I don’t know that he would ever change his mind. But you seem to love him very much and the life you had together – I’m just wondering if you could find a way you could feel secure with him and your future without necessarily having a legal license.

    What do you think?



  178.  #178Elizabeth on June 10, 2011 at 5:43 am

    130 Emerson
    Thank you so much for your good wishes. You seem like such a nice person. I like to read what you write and can empathize with you when you say that you think do better w/ people in rl than on-line. What makes you say so? I used to believe that for myself, but then I realized the differences between the two. For one, There is such a huge anonymity factor on-line. And on a blog like this, especially, it can be difficult to keep up because of the volume and the way it is set up. Expectations about the responses. These and other things, makes it easier to feel a sense of disconnect. Well, I do hope you will stay and write. 🙂

    xoxo



  179.  #179Elizabeth on June 10, 2011 at 5:54 am

    Ella

    “I feel like I haven’t had good sex for so long… that when I do I am going to play this song:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQlIhraqL7o

    When I saw that on tv, I LOLed ! So funny.

    About trying to avoid sugar intake, you might look for a supplement that contains gymnema, sylvestre,
    and stevia leaf which help reduce the desire for unnatural sugars like sucrose, dextrose, etc.

    by blocking the absorption of sugar molecules in the intestines.

    xoxo



  180.  #180Mel on June 10, 2011 at 6:04 am

    I have a question…

    How long do I wait for my husband to make the marriage counseling appointment?

    I DON’T want to be nagging him about it. this feels like me leaning forward. This HAS to come from him as the ball is now in his court and he has to WANT to pick it up.

    BUT… for me marriage counseling is a MUST. I really don’t think our relationship has a remote chance of surviving without it.

    So… do I ever bring it up, again? Do I just make a self-imposed deadline after which point if he still hasn’t “picked up the ball” I walk out? If so, is this deadline communicated to him? this feels too much like an ultimatum to me. But yet… some decision has to be made one way or the other, so I’m just not sure.

    I sense he doesn’t want to be the “bad guy,” but to me him choosing not to pursue counseling IS him choosing to abandon the marriage. I don’t want to leave, but I also don’t want to be married to someone that doesn’t love me (or is not “sure” if he loves me). I choose marriage, but I also choose to be happy.

    The weird thing is that if i leave, he will say it’s because I “gave up on the marriage,” but really, this is not the case.

    So confusing!



  181.  #181Lily T. on June 10, 2011 at 6:11 am

    Mel,

    Why does he HAVE to be the one to make the appointment? If it is important to you to see if the marriage can be saved, why shouldn’t you be the one to make the appointment and start going on your own if he declines to go with you? Couples counselors often like to see the clients in individual sessions as well as joint.

    The counselor may help you, and in turn, if your husband sees you getting a positive benefit from it, feel more encouraged to join you.



  182.  #182Mel on June 10, 2011 at 6:20 am

    Hi Lily T. !

    I am already going on my own. I am finding this helpful.

    The reason I think that he has to be the one to make the appointment is that he is the one who is “unsure” if he wants to be married. At this point, I feel like I can’t force him to do anything. If I drag him kicking and screaming to counseling, it’s not going to help anyway.

    It has to be his choice to want to work on the marriage.

    I told him that I thought it was important and that I wanted to go with him. I said “I know you are busy, so if this is something you would agree to try, I’ll let you make the appointment for the time that works best for you and I will be there.”

    He agreed to give it a try, but hasn’t actually followed through. I think he’s hoping I’ll just forget about it and that the problems will “magically” go away.



  183.  #183Lily T. on June 10, 2011 at 6:25 am

    What does your counselor say about him making the appointment/reluctance/refusal to make the appointment?



  184.  #184Mel on June 10, 2011 at 6:31 am

    She agreed that he has to WANT to go. I can maybe ask her if I should bring this up again with him, or if I should just make an appointment and inform him, or if I should just leave it alone.

    Rori us fairly unique in the “leaning back” philosophy. I find many counselors advocate a more assertive approach. I’m just not sure if this will work with him. When someone’s wanting so much space, leaning forward to make an appointment for him seems like a big no-no. Like it will just make him resent me more.



  185.  #185Lily T. on June 10, 2011 at 6:42 am

    I would ask your counselor her opinion.

    You can continue leaning back, but in this situation I would wonder how comfortable that is for you. This is not dating, this is about whether to stay marrried or not.



  186.  #186Mel on June 10, 2011 at 6:44 am

    … and applying what Rori is saying in this current post about the husband going to see the doctor, it seems that I can really only do two things:

    1. express how it would make me feel if he were to go to counseling

    2. choose to leave

    If I go for option one… how can this be said in a non-demanding non-nagging way? But yet… still state my boundaries around this.



  187.  #187Laughing Goddess on June 10, 2011 at 6:59 am

    Dr John Demartini: What is a Soulmate and How to attract our Soulmate?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZzdWqpWx5I&feature=youtube_gdata_player



  188.  #188Femininewoman on June 10, 2011 at 7:03 am

    Mel “He agreed to give it a try, but hasn’t actually followed through. I think he’s hoping I’ll just forget about it and that the problems will “magically” go away.”

    Are you will to trust that he will honor his word? It is his trustworthiness and integrity that is at stake here. Many of us tend to think that way about problems but I believe that if the counselling works in a way for you that is obvious to him, that is what could inspire him to honor his word. I am not sure that bringing it up again would help. As a matter of fact it might keep it in his mind if you choose a time to do it when he is at home so you can borrow the car to go there. In other words create an opportunity that you have to inform him where you are at a particular time. I believe he remembers his promise.



  189.  #189Mel on June 10, 2011 at 7:07 am

    That’s what I was thinking too FW. I’m not sure what is to be gained by bringing it up with him again. He already knows how I feel. Any further discussion on the matter may just be perceived as controlling.

    So… what do you think about me having a self-imposed deadline? I mean I don’t want to live this way forever! I can only be so patient. 🙂



  190.  #190Femininewoman on June 10, 2011 at 7:08 am

    To me this ” but to me him choosing not to pursue counseling IS him choosing to abandon the marriage” is a story you are making up. You have made a commitment to the marriage and to the counselling so I woudl honor that commitment. I am also not convinced that counselling necessarily saves marriages. I would also be concerned that your need for him to go to counselling must be seeping through in your vibe your energy. If he is stubborn, I would look at some past incidents to see how he changed himself or decided to do what he was not wanting to do. The timeline and maybe what triggered the change. Pushing him I believe will only trigger resistance from him. IMHO changing oneself here would be what could create change one way or another.



  191.  #191Lily T. on June 10, 2011 at 7:09 am

    How do you feel about having a self-imposed deadline? What would it be?



  192.  #192Femininewoman on June 10, 2011 at 7:11 am

    Mel I would review the discussion we had see what I might have communicated as far as a deadline is concerned.



  193.  #193Femininewoman on June 10, 2011 at 7:13 am

    Mel you said the conselling is helpful. How is it helpful? Have you been given anything to read that you could maybe leave lying around the house in a place that could trigger curiosity in him?



  194.  #194Femininewoman on June 10, 2011 at 7:17 am

    Also Mel have you changed anything about your look? The color of your hair? The clothes you wear? That might trigger attraction in other men as you go out. This could get him curious and wondering what’s happening with you. It could be a new topic of conversation.



  195.  #195tinque on June 10, 2011 at 7:22 am

    Darling Ella – “my last nite date told me he knew i am so much more than the pics…:)”

    Love, love, love this…xxoo



  196.  #196tinque on June 10, 2011 at 7:23 am

    Gingersky – So nice having you back. Thank you for your beautiful words.

    xxoo



  197.  #197Femininewoman on June 10, 2011 at 7:23 am

    Mel don’t know if this could help??

    https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/commitment/speak-the-truth-to-get-the-love-you-want/#more-411

    So – here’s how you say the truth…
    1. “I feel bad not telling you, and I feel bad telling you. There’s something going on that I’m not sure about, and I don’t want to talk about it until I know, but I feel even worse being dishonest with you. I’m late for my period, and I’ll take a test tomorrow and will let you know. I feel freaked out….” Or…
    2. “I feel upset, and I feel bad that I want to keep it to myself, but I do…I’m not ready to talk about it yet…” And then say goodbye if he presses you more.
    If you were the man, which one would YOU rather hear? And which would you rather say?

    Yes, he KNOWS he’s treating you badly. He KNOWS. and all you’re doing by holding back your feelings is making him angry, making him guilty, and making him love and respect you LESS.
    The way out is by taking a different approach.



  198.  #198Mel on June 10, 2011 at 8:11 am

    FW,

    For me counseling is useful simply because it helps to get stuff off my chest. To feel heard. To not keep it all inside any more.

    For us, I’m hoping that it will be able to teach us strategies for better communication, as well as perhaps acting as a mediation so that we can “negotiate” how we want our marriage to look in the future. (basically BOTH of us sharing boundaries, making compromises etc.) Also, I’m hoping that it might be able to enable him to finally speak his truth about what has been going on for him and how he has been feeling.

    A while back (a couple months ago), I changed my hair color and bought some new super pretty clothes. This didn’t really seem to have any effect. I DID get compliments from other men I know, but not really from him. An old friend who I hadn’t seen for a long time said “Wow! You look even better than I remember! You’re looking beautiful!”



  199.  #199Mel on June 10, 2011 at 8:45 am

    “I would look at some past incidents to see how he changed himself or decided to do what he was not wanting to do. The timeline and maybe what triggered the change.”

    Often it is when he hears it from someone else (ie. not coming from me).

    For example… a while back we were watching this comedy show on TV and the guy was going on a rant about how lazy men have become that they would rather watch porn than have real sex.

    Well… what do you know… guess what we did that night? LOL.



  200.  #200Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 9:06 am

    @187: Laughing Goddess says:

    “…Dr John Demartini: What is a Soulmate and How to attract our Soulmate?..”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZzdWqpWx5I&feature=youtube_gdata_player

    Thanks for this. Is it the one I pulled up from your link last night?

    xoxo
    SLV



  201.  #201Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 9:12 am

    105: Senior Lady Vibe says:

    @55: Rusty says:

    “…Your lawyer friends need to go back to law school. Her name was on the house when the bought a new house. Most states do this…”

    Most states do what? I don’t plan to go back to law school even though I’m not aware of such. Are you saying there is statute law that an escrow closing does not take place unless live-in girlfriends are granted title rights by deed?

    It sounds TOTALLY ludicrous but I’ll look at your citation if there is one. Strange things happen and I keep an open mind.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I think there is some miscommunication here SLV.

    They were married, but not for a very long time. My point was that there are different interests at play here. I can see a man in his very much later years not wanting to get married and thus end up having a situation where he has a relatively new wife and grown children having to fight over his things.

    My point here is if a man is say in his fifties, had kids when he was young like late teens or early twenties, he had 30 years with his kids. If he marries and kicks the bucket years later, his kids could end up getting nothing unless he takes care of it with a will.

    but then if he leaves them everything in the will, which many men might want to do, he is now married to a very angry woman. i think many men in their later years feel that you should keep what you came to the relationship with. That you have had a good amount of time to establish yourself and have something of your own. And there is just the whole point, for men, of wanting a woman want them just because they like being around them, not because of what they can give them.

    It’s a myth that men WANT to be wanted for what they do and have. No, but men do realize that unfortunately that is the world they live in. If you want the best women, you have to be a man of means. Maybe no true in every case but in many cases, it is, and that is the general feeling by many men.

    I have heard that many people don’t do wills and I think the main reason they don’t is two reasons. First, having to face the fact that one day you will be dead, and second, they don’t want to deal with people wanting their stuff when they die, especially when they know it is going to cause problems in the here and now, such as leaving the house, business, etc.. to the kids.

    I think that is sad and think you should have a will.



  202.  #202Lily T. on June 10, 2011 at 9:25 am

    #201Rusty,

    While I can understand parents wanting to be able to “pass down” belongings, etc. to their children, if someone has a partner at the time of their passing I would think they’d want their partner to be provided for foremost. He or she wouldn’t want their partner to be left homeless would they? Unable to make ends meet? This is a situation older, non-wealthy, folks can find themselves in. While the “children” are usually in their prime earning years and accumulating assets, investments of their own.



  203.  #203Femininewoman on June 10, 2011 at 9:27 am

    Mel you have discovered something that works with him. Also CCarter talks a lot about how telling stories help people to see themselves. It is one of his big tips for women to use. CCarter also talks about people not wanting to be seen as “not getting it”. It is mostly psychological stuff that sometimes don’t make sense to me but I am open to experimenting with things and many times I realize they work. You see in that case you didn’t have to tell him. He got it.



  204.  #204Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 9:30 am

    111: MelNo Gravatar says:

    Hey Rusty,

    Thanks for your insight on the porn thing. I’m still thinking about the reason for use though.

    I get that men have a “need” to look at beauty and that porn could be a way for him to get that variety that he is looking for.

    The problem becomes wen it appears that he would PREFER to use porn because it’s easy and he’s tired and as a result completely neglects the needs of his partner.

    It can also become the case that real sex becomes “blah” because it just doesn’t have the same level of stimulation.

    I think (in my opinion) some guys don’t realize that it’s even happening.

    But the thing is (as I think Lucy said) HE has to see it is a problem and WANT to change.

    =========================================

    Pretty much agree with everything you said. I think porn is in the end, not a good thing for relationships. It is fine if you keep it to a rare thing to add some excitement to the bedroom, but the problem is that it rarely stays there.

    It is like many things these days in that it takes away too much time from things that are more positive. basically, I see it as a drug. i do think there are biological things going on there also, but I do think it is something better left behind.

    I also agree that in the end, it is actually better sex than you can have with a woman…in your mind. It doesn’t actually feel better, but mentally, real sex has a very hard time keeping up. Real life can’t compete with a fantasy…in any thing. Just like a real husband can’t compete with that fantasy image a woman might have of that total stud deliveryman that comes into their office everyday. never mind that he too is a real man and in fact, the real him can’t compete with the fantasy image that many women might have of him.

    But when you start to neglect the real world and actually prefer the fantasy, then it has clearly gone too far.

    I will just say this though. You have no moral ground to stand on when you act indignant about a man simply looking at some porn if you also would act like he is out of line when he tells you to stay away from certain men.

    This again is where I think the “puritans” may have had it right. I once listened to a secular psychologist talking in a church. A friend invited me to it because I wasn’t dealing well with my divorce at the time.

    basically this guy laid out a whole lot of information, talking about how many modern trends were very destructive to relationships and why.

    He talked about how as he was going up, everybody wasn’t hugging in church. But today, a man can go into a church and once he gets to know a lot of people, the women will often start hugging.

    he told of an incident he witnessed where a very very beautiful bosomy 17 year old girl hugged the youth minister, a very attractive young man of 32. He had been away for a few months so when she spotted him in the church, she ran up to him and hugged him in a very intimate looking full body embrace.

    He then showed us something he referred to as the sexual ladder which had three overlapping areas titled: acquaintance, friendship, sex. A full body embrace was the top rung of the friendship section of the ladder and the fourth rung up on the sex section.

    Not one man disagreed with his assessment that when a woman hugs you and you feel her bosom press into you, your minds says “B00BS!!!”

    You are very right in a lot of what you said. Too much of a good thing can ruin that good thing. I mean take your favorite dessert. Then have it every single night. Eventually you are going to look at it and say, “Blah.”



  205.  #205AmazingMe on June 10, 2011 at 9:31 am

    Thanks DaRIA…I think that is my plan to keep him in my CDing pool and just continue being happy. Whatever is meant to be will be, I love not feeling like I have to control this outcome:)



  206.  #206Femininewoman on June 10, 2011 at 9:37 am

    RE 198 Did he share what he expects from the counselling?

    Also remember that guys tend to want things to be their idea so if the counselling strategy is yours and you are leading him to do it remember the saying “you can lead a horse to the water but you can’t make him drink”. I might be wrong on this but he might only be really open to going if he sees the change in you and want it for himself. Somewhere inside he must be feeling that the same situation could play itself out in another relationship even though he might ultimately choose not to go into a second marriage if this does not work out. With honed skills he could make another one work or it might even work with building his career. I am wondering if he has proposed anything that maybe you could accept. If there is anything that you could keep accepting his influence on, he might be open to accepting influence from you.



  207.  #207Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 9:41 am

    202: Lily T. says:

    #201Rusty,

    While I can understand parents wanting to be able to “pass down” belongings, etc. to their children, if someone has a partner at the time of their passing I would think they’d want their partner to be provided for foremost. He or she wouldn’t want their partner to be left homeless would they? Unable to make ends meet? This is a situation older, non-wealthy, folks can find themselves in. While the “children” are usually in their prime earning years and accumulating assets, investments of their own.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I think it is going to depend on each situation. Like I said, maybe for some men, especially if the woman has some means of her own, may feel that he doesn’t want to do that. Maybe as he enjoys the last years of his life, he wants to believe that someone is there simply because they love being with him, not because they are going to get his house when he outlives them.

    I would say this also, if you both have houses when you meet, don’t sell one of them. Rent it. That way you still have your house.

    And while you say that Lily T, I know women who had means who met and lived with, or married, men who did not have the means she did. Maybe they lost it in a divorce, or bankruptcy. I have listened to these women talk about not wanting leave the house, etc… to this man. In their minds, it belongs to their children. And this seems to be a very acceptable thought. Why? Because our society still sees a marriage as a man provider and woman nurturer.

    So again, I think this very thing might be at the heart of some of these situations where and older gentleman doesn’t want to get married…just live with a woman.

    I think this is just going to become more the case also as most men growing up today were taught by their progressive mothers, to do laundry, cook, etc… And daughters were taught to go out and get a career. Bottom line is that outside of sex and companionship, we don’t really need each other anymore. And with so many people feeling that sex outside of marriage is totally acceptable, you simply don’t need marriage anymore. This is the world we have created.



  208.  #208Mel on June 10, 2011 at 9:42 am

    That’s the thing… he hasn’t really suggested anything. I would certainly be willing to try anything he thinks might work. But I do agree, men often like things to be their idea.



  209.  #209Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 9:43 am

    @55: Rusty says:
    “…I think there is some miscommunication here SLV…
    They were married, but not for a very long time….”

    Yes, there was. I believed the discussion was about an unmarried woman’s options. That’s the way I read it. The rights for a short term marriage are not the same as for an unmarried woman no matter the length of the cohabitation. A woman married for one day would usually have more property rights than an unmarried woman living with a man for years.

    Being married doesn’t mean the couple have greater commitment to loving each other and living together but marriage does serve to protect interests in a more defined way.

    Do some men force a woman to “prove her love” by not marrying and foregoing marital property rights. Maybe… And it goes both ways too. A woman could do the same.

    Historically marriage, religious connotation aside, has been about guardianship of children, inheritance and property rights.

    xoxo
    SLV



  210.  #210Elizabeth on June 10, 2011 at 9:44 am

    195: tinque says:

    Darling Ella – “my last nite date told me he knew i am so much more than the pics…:)”

    Love, love, love this…xxoo

    What a gracious thing for him to say! It’s lovely.

    I only have two pics up and they don’t even show much of me

    DE, you sound very upbeat lately!
    It’s fun 🙂

    xoxo



  211.  #211Mel on June 10, 2011 at 9:48 am

    FW,

    Can you elaborate more on how telling stories helps people to see themselves? Was there an article on this?



  212.  #212FlowerChild77 on June 10, 2011 at 9:52 am

    Just for the record…this man has no children. The only two blood relatives he has are a sister and a half-sister and he despises them both. They call him once a year, maybe, and are ‘fake’ nice, but do not respect him for who he is or really consider him part of the family. When their parents died he was “left out” of the real inheritance and only got to keep a very few things that belonged to his dad. The oldest sister was the ‘trustee’ and saw to it that the two girls got everything of any real value.

    Having just been ‘left out’ of my own mother’s will (and I’m the only child) I have a whole new understanding of how he feels about his sisters. I never truly understood what that felt like until it happened to me. I don’t despise anyone, but I sure think differently of my mother’s relatives (who are perfectly OK with getting everything—even though it all came from my father’s family and was supposed to go to me.

    They got the “family home.” My father’s only living sister thinks I inherited it—I don’t know how I feel about telling her the real truth about my mother, but I don’t want her thinking that I have the house. It feels dishonest, yet I don’t want to be saying bad things about my mom (even though it’s true…)

    I don’t think he (xbf) really understands that his sisters are, in fact, who will inherit his property. His pension still has his last gf (they were together for about 17 years) listed as the beneficiary. I brought it up a some time ago and it started one of the worst fights we ever had.

    I don’t know how to bring this up again without starting a fight. Me wanting to be married is not all about security and inheritance. I love him and always hoped that this relationship would eventually grow into marriage. The first two years we were together he lived in a small one bedroom apartment in town…and I still dreamed of being married someday. I’m not just after “his stuff.” Sigh…



  213.  #213FlowerChild77 on June 10, 2011 at 10:00 am

    #202/Lily T.>>>”if someone has a partner at the time of their passing I would think they’d want their partner to be provided for foremost. He or she wouldn’t want their partner to be left homeless would they?”<<<

    I blew this off for many years…because I was afraid to find out the real truth of whether he cares that much. I kept telling myself that we're not that old and I don't have to worry about that yet.

    I am now growing into a part of my life where I feel like I deserve to be loved "that much."

    I'm scared to find out the answer—but more scared not to. You Sirens make me brave. I don't think I'd feel bold enough or strong enough to do this, otherwise 😉



  214.  #214Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 10:01 am

    114: Mel says:

    Wow! This is powerful stuff!

    I can totally see this pattern in my relationship. “Tell” anyone not to do something and it becomes all the more alluring. I’m realizing now that I CAN’T tell him not to watch porn, or go out with other women, or visit dating sites. This would be forcing him to choose and he’ll just resent me for having to make the choice. This can easily explain some of the recent “childish” rebellious behavior.

    So what do you do if you’re not okay with these things? How do you state your boundaries without telling him what he can/cannot do? Rori says never to tolerate… but we I know we can’t control anyone either.

    I hope she expands on this a bit more.

    Anyone else have any ideas?

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I have a couple but do you really want to go this route?

    For one, I think a big part is that you do have to be honest about how it makes you feel. At the same time, you can acknowledge that their may be things that he feels he gets out of this stuff mentally.

    However, you could tell him that you yourself could see yourself being in a very very close friendship relationship with a guy, and having him over all the time, going to lunch with him, etc… And you know that you would not want anything from him but friendship…even if the other guy wanted more. But if your husband was uncomfortable with it, you would discontinue that friendship because your marriage comes first.

    Tell him that it simply makes you feel bad, but that you can’t make him do anything that he doesn’t want to do. He has to want to stop, but your feelings don’t seem to rate high enough for him to actually want to stop. Tell him that for this reason, the relationship causes you pain.

    And for this reason, you want a separation. For both of you to get away from each other and clear your heads.

    I would tell him that he has to decide what it is that he wants out of life. Does he want you, or does he want other women, even just the fantasy of them, because he can’t have both. Tell him that while you can’t determine for him what he wants, you DO know what you want for yourself and you do not want a husband that dabbles in porn and fantasies with other women on dating sites.

    Tell him that the separation is for both of you to decide what you want. By your not being there, he can see what his life is without her, but with full unfettered access to the other stuff he thinks he wants. He can then see which actually makes him happy.

    Place the ball in his court. Let him know that he is the one in control. That you cannot control him and have no desire to do so. But you do know what you want in a man and this is not it.

    If he says he wants only you, then you can challenge that notion, because by wanting you, he is also accepting your wants and you want a husband that is cuddling you and watching a movie, and a husband that takes walks with you, and goes out to dinner with you. You don’t want a husband who is on the computer at home unless there is a G-rated purpose such as work, finding plane tickets or shopping, etc…

    Let him know that this is not in anyway an attempt to control him, because you don’t want a man that does the things you want in your life, simply because he “HAS TO.” You want a man that wants to be the man you need in your life, not a man that is only acting like the man you need to keep the peace. The only person you can control is yourself.

    If you have to, I would write it down in a letter. Write it, put it away and then read it later. Do that until you feel it says what you want it to say.



  215.  #215Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 10:01 am

    @202: Lily T. says:
    “…He or she wouldn’t want their partner to be left homeless would they? Unable to make ends meet? This is a situation older, non-wealthy, folks can find themselves in. ..”

    I think I might find myself in the first group. I’m now thinking about my options, no position yet. I didn’t think I’d ever marry again but I had an epiphany of sorts this past year so who knows.

    These days my interests are more in intellectual property rights than in real property. I once bought real property out of an estate in which there had been a life estate. I don’t know if any states still allow this. In case you are not aware, this is where a person is granted limited property rights. While they are living they can live in the house. The “remainder” — the property after the grantee dies, reverts to decedents.

    Maybe someone else here has experience with this. This might should scary but I had the thought then that I would not want a “life estate” what if the in laws or grandchildren put out a contract on me….? But apparently these kinds of title transactions were done for years and years.

    BTW, I later had a lot of trouble quieting title on that piece of property when it came time to cash out. But I’m tenacious and when I was young would file and document you to death…. heh heh 😆

    xoxo
    SLV



  216.  #216Lily T. on June 10, 2011 at 10:02 am

    207 Rusty,

    The points you made I would take as cautionary to evaluate what partnership actually means to each person. If a man or woman would rather the children get the house, potentially leaving the older partner homeless…does one really want that person as a partner? Does companionship come with a price?

    Also, medical bills can wipe out the savings of some older folks – not to mention the responsibility for health care that one partner takes on for another. Is this discounted because 30 -50 years before these people created “other families”?



  217.  #217Mel on June 10, 2011 at 10:04 am

    Good suggestions Rusty! Thanks!



  218.  #218Lily T. on June 10, 2011 at 10:07 am

    SLV #215,

    “I think I might find myself in the first group.”

    I’m confused what you mean by this SLV. That you would leave a partner homeless? Or be left homeless due to a partner’s preference to leave his property to his children?



  219.  #219Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 10:11 am

    @213: FlowerChild77 says:
    “…I am now growing into a part of my life where I feel like I deserve to be loved ‘that much’..”

    Me too. I’m thinking about it. It might never come to pass. You’re younger than I, you still have time for property of your own.

    I use to live, dream and think in real estate. That’s how my family lived for generations. Also how my great-greats could live as “ladies of colour” in ante-bellum free states.

    Yep, I’m a property rights kind of girl…. LOL A lot of it is digital now. I have a hard time adjusting myself to the fact that not everyone gets as excited about it as I do. I have fond memories of pining over those huge Multiple Listing directories.. 😯

    Ah, those were the days.

    Snap, back to present. I much prefer living tiny!

    xoxo
    SLV



  220.  #220Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 10:12 am

    119: DE says:

    Rusty #110″

    Sorry, i don’t share u enthusiasm in this 🙁

    I feel kind of bored …and that feels like a big yawn…:(

    A friend of mine was obsessed ab it too a few years back…had me do the test (she did it for me)…she literally chose her husband using this test…gosh, but the way she was described by others (okay, i agreed with them sometimes)…is more like the sphinx woman …:( Very logical thinker…she could sympathize with u…but I never felt empathy from her…so, thus, never a deep connection…people were disposable in her book…like me…:(

    on a different note, yes, i agree is a very valuable tool to be used in the business world…yet, i don’t want a relationship that resembles that…i want an organic feeling exchange and experience…:)

    warm hugs,

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    There’s nothing inorganic about it. It is simply a tool. Ever read a self help book? How about Rori’s tools? It is no less organic than those. It helps you find out if you are compatible with someone.

    maybe the friend of yours is more logical. I would bet that she was a T not an F. Which means that logic is the prime force in their thinking. I am a T.

    Also, she may be an Extrovert. Extroverts have little trouble making friends, so it does seem to those who are introverts that these E’s are shallow. E’s can get their social needs from many people because they are Extroverts. Thus, maybe they don’t put as much into one relationship as an introvert. Introverts have far fewer friends but those friendships are very deep.

    being an E, I can only say that I think there is some misunderstanding about an E having only shallow relationships. No, as an E I can make friends with anyone. But that does not mean that there are not some friendships that are not very deep. Basically we take each relationship for what it is. We, IMHO, thus don’t feel the need to MAKE people fulfill our needs. We don’t require that one friend be the “BE All and End All” in our friendship needs.

    For instance, an I might say, “OH come on Mary, you just have to go to Europe with us, it won’t be the same without you. I have a ticket for you.” An E would likely say, “Well I wish you could make it but if you can’t, I understand, so I’ll see if jenny can go. We’ll email you some pics.”



  221.  #221Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 10:17 am

    216: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    207 Rusty,

    The points you made I would take as cautionary to evaluate what partnership actually means to each person. If a man or woman would rather the children get the house, potentially leaving the older partner homeless…does one really want that person as a partner?

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Agreed. You do have to decide what you want. But think about your next sentence.

    “Does companionship come with a price?”

    Does it? Does her companionship come at the price of his home? A home he may have already promised to his kids when their mom died?

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Also, medical bills can wipe out the savings of some older folks – not to mention the responsibility for health care that one partner takes on for another. Is this discounted because 30 -50 years before these people created “other families”?

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Agreed, and each situation is different. But you are making my point. Is she looking for companionship, or security? You are right, she has to decide what it is she wants. But so does he. Maybe he wants a woman who has some means of her own. A woman who simply wants him around because she enjoys having him around. Not a woman who is just looking at him for security.

    Many of us learned when we “rescued” some girl from her parent’s home, that having a woman who wants us for what we can give her or do for her is not what we want. It’s not love.



  222.  #222Femininewoman on June 10, 2011 at 10:18 am

    Mel just like with the TV show. He saw himself as the man who was being discussed as lazy. He does not like that description of himself. Say you know of a couple who struggled with problems but they went to counselling and now they are happy. A man maybe who thought he could do better than the wife he had so he ended up divorcing, choosing to marry his ideal partner but things did not work out. Or somebody whose life might have become better after getting married. Or maybe a situation like Color Purple where the woman totally transformed herself after the separation and the man telling her nobody else would want her. The movie Four Brothers come to mind. That is type of story you would want to bring up. Apparently according to CCarter this brings up stuff about our relationships without bringing up the relatinship because in movies for instance the man in the story is him and the woman in the story is you. He encourages people to bring up gossip as in pop stars life. Saying it is a huge tip to influence people’s thinking.



  223.  #223Femininewoman on June 10, 2011 at 10:21 am

    Rusty what if he doesn’t say I want only you or continues to say I don’t know what I want?



  224.  #224Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 10:28 am

    51: Senior Lady VibeNo Gravatar says:

    @34: Rusty says:
    “..I asked her what she meant and she said “true equality…”

    She could not really have meant that paying their own expenses on dates means Australian women have “true equality.”

    If that is so… [I don’t believe it!] No wonder an Australian man can get sex from Australian woman for the price of a steak. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

    SLV

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Well it is the case. This was a theme told to us by many Aussie women, and I heard this same story repeated by every guy I know that dated and Aussie while we were there (4 times).

    I can definitely tell you that there is no place like Australia for an American Sailor. it was very refreshing for men who grew up during the rise of Oprah and hearing about what crud we American men are, to actually have women tell us that they love how romantic and generous we American men are. They appreciate the little things so much, such as opening a door for them.

    American men do that so often, American women usually take it for granted. I still can’t get over how Aussie women would actually make such a big deal to us for doing it. I mean you could literally see it brighten their day.

    One girl I met in Perth wasn’t from Perth. Perth is on the Southwest coast, but she was from the Northwest part of Australia. She went to Perth for the specific purpose of finding an American Sailor to marry. She was a very pretty girl. I was sooo tempted.

    A couple of my friends met girls and one of them did marry the girl. These two girls met these guys and dated them in Perth for the week we were there, then traveled to Sydney to spend another week with them when we pulled in there.



  225.  #225Lily T. on June 10, 2011 at 10:32 am

    Rusty,

    I wasn’t thinking about “gold diggers” who want to marry for financial security. I was thinking of two people who genuinely loved each other and committed for companionship at a later age. My comments were written with that scenario in mind.



  226.  #226FlowerChild77 on June 10, 2011 at 10:32 am

    SLV…I may be younger than you, but I’ll probably never have enough money to buy myself a little house. The only way that would have happened is if I’d inherited my father’s family home. (My mother left it to her sisters.) His family thinks I will sell it and have over a hundred fifty thousand dollars (“…to make myself a nice life” were my aunts exact words.) To tell, or not to tell…?

    That would be my dream, though…to have a little piece of property where I can garden and plant some fruit trees. Just an old farm house…simple and basic…and mine! 😉 Also it hurts me that I will have nothing to leave my children…nothing. I’d have still had enough money (after buying a li’l house) to invest some for each of my four grown children, so that in 25 or 30 years they’d have something.

    (Of course, if things worked out with xbf, that money would have become ‘ours.’)



  227.  #227Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 10:33 am

    @218: Lily T. says:
    SLV #215,

    “I think I might find myself in the first group.”

    I’m confused what you mean by this SLV. That you would leave a partner homeless? Or be left homeless due to a partner’s preference to leave his property to his children?

    I didn’t see these two choices in your post: 1)leave a partner homeless or 2) be left homeless

    I still don’t see those choices there, only parents and children. But at any rate… No, I would never want to leave a partner homeless. I’m in the group of older, non-wealthy women. But… as I often say, one never knows. Even if I were homeless, I’d be as happy as possible and I don’t spend time worrying about that possibility.

    202: Lily T. says:
    #201Rusty,

    While I can understand parents wanting to be able to “pass down” belongings, etc. to their children, 1)if someone has a partner at the time of their passing I would think they’d want their partner to be provided for foremost., He or she wouldn’t want their partner to be left homeless, would they? Unable to make ends meet?

    [ALSO] 1)This is a situation older, non-wealthy, folks can find themselves in.

    While 2) the “children” are usually in their prime earning years and accumulating assets, investments of their own.

    xoxo
    SLV



  228.  #228Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 10:35 am

    223: Femininewoman says:

    Rusty what if he doesn’t say I want only you or continues to say I don’t know what I want?

    Then you have a choice to make. I would think that at this point, if you have self respect for yourself, you leave. If he can’t say, I want only you, do you want only him?

    Again, I will say that there is a huge difference between a man who is blowing the couple’s money on porn and one who dabbles in it occasionally out of boredom.

    It might also be an indication of something missing from the relationship. I was with a woman who really did have the idea that sex with her was some grand blessing that a man had to earn. OK, maybe every woman feels that way to an extent but this woman had that attitude on steroids.

    Foreplay wasn’t for US to get in the mood, it was for me to get her in the mood. I was the one who had to do everything for her. She did nothing for me.

    She didn’t realize that she had fingertips that could caress, for starters.

    She was the worst in bed I ever had. One of the best looking, but in the end, the worst I had in bed. Very selfish.

    I doubt Mel is anything close to that. I have no clue what he feels he is missing, if in fact he even feels that way.



  229.  #229Lily T. on June 10, 2011 at 10:47 am

    SLV, Makes much more sense.

    But look at your post to me #215 – that’s how I got confused. 🙂



  230.  #230Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 10:48 am

    225: Lily T. says:

    Rusty,

    I wasn’t thinking about “gold diggers” who want to marry for financial security. I was thinking of two people who genuinely loved each other and committed for companionship at a later age. My comments were written with that scenario in mind.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I’m not talking about gold diggers either. I am talking about a man, who may have told his children at the time of their mother’s passing that one day they house would be theirs. That he wanted to die knowing that one of them would carry on in that house when he died.

    Then he does meet a new woman a few years later. Now he is in a pickle because she tells him that if he loves her, he will leave her the house, or allow the house to be sold and the money split.

    What a predicament he finds himself in. So maybe the guy figures the best way to avoid the problem is to not get married. See what I am saying. I am saying you are only looking at it from the new woman’s perspective. But as always, there can and usually is more to the story.

    It has been stated that the children are investing, or it was insinuated that the children are of means themselves.

    What if they aren’t? My dad is in this position somewhat because I think he wants my younger sister to pay 3/4 of the market value of the home to her 3 siblings, then live in the house.

    She is not made of money by any means. Her husband has passed up a couple of business opportunities and thus is a simple working man. I don’t think they have ever even owned a home. More than likely, she would in effect have to rent the home from us three.

    My dad has chosen not get married at all. I think he has gone on a few dates but that is it. He has zero intention of getting married and he is now over 70. He’s been single since his late 50s when my mom died.

    Hate to say it but there are a lot of older folks who think about these things. I know because I have a very large family with many older folks, and they have friends that I know. It is a concern to them. Sad IMHO. Laws meant to protect women can in fact, actually hurt some.

    This reminds me of how the economy works. A luxury tax on American made yachts didn’t raise revenue for the government, it killed the American luxury yacht industry in America.



  231.  #231Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 10:50 am

    @226: FlowerChild77 says:
    “(My mother left it to her sisters.) His family thinks I will sell it and have over a hundred fifty thousand dollars (“…to make myself a nice life” were my aunts exact words.) To tell, or not to tell…?”

    It would be difficult to sell the house if your mother left it to her sisters. In my non-legal humble opinion you could only quitclaim it which is well… nothing…. now… or probably ever.

    To tell? Do you mean to “let them know” you are not a grand heiress all taken care of? Sure, I would, why not?! Your guy, right or wrong, may be banking on this as part of your asset package.

    “…to have a little piece of property where I can garden and plant some fruit trees…”

    How small would you go? If you are living some place now and paying for it, there’s always a way.

    Here is SMALL and EXCITING!:

    Tiny Houseshttp://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/build-it-yourself/a-fencl-in-puget-sound/?awt_l=GI1pB&awt_m=1e8jh3LSfauEBy

    What do you think? There are lots of other similar too. I like them!

    xoxo
    SLV



  232.  #232Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 10:51 am


  233.  #233Femininewoman on June 10, 2011 at 10:52 am

    RE 228 Rusty thanks for sharing that experience. For me it is an eye opener. I don’t happen to subscribe to the concept that the other person is there to please me. In relationship I believe the two peoples needs are important. Not necessarily to give to get but I can’t imagine why I would not do such things for my sweetie when I am happy in a relationship.



  234.  #234Laughing Goddess on June 10, 2011 at 10:56 am

    Hi SLV!

    Yes, that is the same link. I realized I did’t post a title with it the first time. The recording isn’t the best quality, especially at the beginning yet the information in top notch IMHO.

    Have you had a chance to watch it yet?



  235.  #235Femininewoman on June 10, 2011 at 10:58 am

    Here’s a love tip from our amazing author of
    “Psychic Scan” – international psychic Alicia Power:

    So you’re FRYING!

    You love your date, or new partner desperately yet he’s staying cool and noncommittal.

    You know he’s unsure whether he wants a long term or even short term relationship with you.

    Here are your SURVIVAL INSTRUCTIONS:

    1. STAY COOL.

    2. DON’T – whatever you do – talk about “Hey, are we together or not”!

    3. Act as though EVERYTHING is fine.

    4. RELAX and stay in control of your fear and worry thoughts.

    5. I’ll mention it again here – DON’T talk about it!

    Why? Why NOT confront him, needle him or make him tell you what he wants?

    What you are doing here is taking your and his time to FEEL – to check each other out – for him to check YOU out.

    Every day is ANOTHER DAY.

    And every day you have together is a chance to create a nice, warm, relaxed, happy experience with him.

    PUSHING anything pushes him away. That is the key point here.

    There is magic in staying calm, cool and collected.

    1. YOU practice not giving your fear room to create DRAMA.

    2. He gets to notice that you are a very nice person (you don’t create drama).

    3. He starts to TRUST you are not a drama queen.

    4. You check out if indeed you DO want to be with him (first impressions might be deceiving!)

    AND the entire scenario rests on YOU staying cool, and just showing up each day like everything is FINE.

    I’m presuming here that your man is NOT an intense, weird twisted type of person! Because, of
    course if he is, PLEASE get out of there. Yesterday.

    So – the moral of the story is: DON’T MAKE YOUR
    GUY walk away because of your own (often unfounded) fears – and you pulling him into your
    personal ‘fear storm’.

    Guys DON’T LIKE DRAMA. They are more logical
    and like things to get figured out a bit more

    clearly than screaming at each other.

    INTUITION MIND TOOL

    Here’s a quick tip to check if he’s worth
    waiting for:

    1. Close your eyes

    2. PRETEND your man is standing in front of
    you.

    3. NOTICE if he feels happy or sad (let’s
    stay simple).

    4. ASK him (the him in your mind’s eye) if he
    likes you.

    5. Trust what you immediately sense/get!

    6. Repeat this process if you need to, to get
    clear.

    7. Notice how YOU FEEL ABOUT HIM – without the
    emotional drama.

    HERE’S A BIG CLUE:

    It takes a long time (months and years) for
    TRUST to build up between people.

    You get to see someone in all types of
    situations – happy and sad.

    You notice if they stay the course and have
    courage and fortitude.

    You notice if their values are real and deep
    and worthy of you trusting them.

    So, in summary, take your time.

    And don’t throw the baby out with the bath
    water before you’ve given either of you TIME to
    get to know each other.

    And girls – DON’T push him!

    Warmly, Alicia



  236.  #236Lily T. on June 10, 2011 at 11:00 am

    #230 Rusty,

    I understand where you are coming from with alot of this, but I still think we are operating under different scenarios.

    Why would a woman be moving into the home where the man raised his children? In my scenario he was divorced and has a small house or condo in Florida. Or they buy a small house/condo together in their retirement. The woman doesn’t latch onto him for “security”, the two people genuinely love each other. Why should he feel compelled to ‘give’ his children her home (or his share in it) if he dies? Actuarial tables show she is likely to outlive him by 7 yrs. – maybe up to 20.

    I’ve never been particularly marriage minded, but I’m now seeing that for older women it might offer protection from greedy heirs.



  237.  #237Laughing Goddess on June 10, 2011 at 11:07 am

    SLV: I love the tiny houses. How exciting! I bookmarked that link to peruse more later.

    I hope to buy some land and build eventually. These small houses would be a great first step as homesteading takes time to develop.

    I’m imagining that I would want to build something like this to live in while the big picture was coming together and then it could be a guest space eventually.

    Thanks for posting.

    Btw, when is your birthday gemini sister? Mine is on Tues.

    I feel excited about the little road trip we have planned to celebrate. We are going to take the dogs, drive through Northern California and end up in southern Oregon at the hot springs!!!! They are these epic natural hot spring overlooking a valley. Yum!



  238.  #238turquoise3 on June 10, 2011 at 11:07 am

    Happy Birthday Gina and Lucy! Hope they are wonderful for you both! 🙂

    Daria, maybe it doesn’t feel as good now because you don’t care about them? Maybe you are ready for more, and casual just won’t be enough?



  239.  #239turquoise3 on June 10, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Rusty,

    No, he’s American.



  240.  #240Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 11:08 am

    @229: Lily T.

    OK, I saw “wouldn’t want their partners homeless” and “older, non wealthy.”

    Agreed, we don’t want our partners homeless!

    xoxo
    SLV



  241.  #241Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 11:14 am

    @234: Laughing Goddess says:

    “Have you had a chance to watch it yet?…”

    Hi LG,

    Not yet, but it’s sitting on my desktop right now. It’s about a half hour long so I’ll watch tonight.

    I’m on way out now… and will probably buy another soulmate ring too… 😀

    xoxo
    SLV



  242.  #242Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 11:16 am

    126: Gingersky says

    I don’t see it as inorganic. I am not even sure what that even means in a dating sense. Even Doctor Phil, and just about every psychologist I have ever heard has said that it is a big problem that people don’t do the work to find out if they are even compatible before getting married. The get married because they are “in love” but when the honeymoon wears off, they find themselves with somebody that irritates the crap out of them.

    Like I said, Daria is a very beautiful girl, and seems very sweet, but the way she handled that guy saying she got him lost, would drive me up the wall.

    She didn’t do anything wrong…our personality types are just not supposed to be together. We both agree on this and the Meyers Briggs confirms it. For some guys…guys whose personality types are a match with her, the way she handled it would be perfect.

    IMHO, not using something like this just means you are playing Russian Roulette. Also, you don’t have to give the person a test. You can find their type by asking them simple ordinary questions.

    Here’s one. “What do you like to do in your spare time to recharge your batteries? Hang out at the house to watch a movie, read a book, do some gardening, or build some woodworking project, or something else along those lines? Or do you prefer to go do something with friends or family? Or anything along those lines where you are around other people?”

    What you are trying to find out is if they recharge their batteries by being alone or do they recharge them by being around other people. The first one is an I and the second one is an E.

    If that doesn’t work, if they are defensive about the question, you can find out by how they talk to you. Do they use a lot of words…finish your sentences…interrupt you and not even seem to realize they did so? If you interrupt them, does it seem like it was as if you pushed pause on a cd player and then unpaused it when you stopped talking? If so, this is an Extrovert.

    An introvert usually internalizes their thoughts before speaking while an extrovert often forms their thoughts as they speak. An extrovert will not seem disturbed in the conversation if interrupted while an introvert will likely shut down and or close up if interrupted. An Extrovert interrupts often without even knowing they did so. You have to let them do this because remember that paused CD? They are still thinking about what they wanted to say. If you are talking to them and they interrupt, that allows them to get something out and then continue along with you in the conversation. If they have to keep it bottled up so as to not appear rude, they will often fall behind in the conversation. Why? Because you moved from A to B to C to D to E to F. Something to sparked in their mind about B that they just have to get out and since they can’t, they are still back there on B.

    If an introvert says, “I wonder what the weather is like in Fiji…I think we should go to Fiji for vacation. Likely they spent a lot of thought on this and have already concluded that this is where they want to go on vacation.

    And extrovert that says that may very well be just tossing the idea around to think about it. They may come back the next day and say, “You know, Alaska would be a cool place to go on vacation this year.” That’s a long jump from Fiji to Alaska, but that is how Extroverts work. An introvert did the same thing but they did so internally.

    I also agree with you that this is just as useful if you can use it to simply understand other people.

    I was also thinking in terms of people using it to simply state what they are on online dating sites. In no way is an online dating site..ORGANIC, and yet many many people use them as do most of the women here.

    I wish I knew the name of that site I ran into by accident when I was first learning about the Meyers Briggs and my ENTJ type.

    Everyone had their type listed. It was pretty cool actually. So all you do is research a bit which types are best for you, which are to be avoided, and which it might work with.

    Not much different than looking through a site and weeding out the guys that live 1,000 miles away, or guys who say they do drugs, or want kids when you don’t, etc…



  243.  #243Lily T. on June 10, 2011 at 11:21 am

    LOL SLV 🙂

    I’m relieved we are in agreement about not leaving partners homeless.



  244.  #244turquoise3 on June 10, 2011 at 11:32 am

    Oh geez….

    Another Mike has shown up on POF. I guess I’ll keep the trend and go with Mike3. He just asked me out, I said maybe, would be nice to chat. We’ve just sent a few emails back and forth.



  245.  #245Laughing Goddess on June 10, 2011 at 11:32 am

    rusty 242

    Hmmmm, I feel intrigued. You pretty much summed up the communication between me and my lover at times, particularly when one of us is triggered.

    As an I, I sometimes feel very confused by the way he communicates. I wouldn’t exactly call him an E, but the way you described their communication does fit.

    It seems like he is often figuring things out as he speaks which I sometimes feel irritated by. I feel drained by that style of communication for some reason.

    And sometimes he will say something like, “we should do _____” and oftentimes it’s something for way in the future or just an idea that’s not really realistic like “we should travel around the world in an air balloon”.

    I know he is just fantasizing and having fun yet I feel stressed because immediately my mind goes into figuring the details of how it could work.

    This is interesting to me.

    I love him deeply and appreciate our relationship and this little communication difference is one of the few things about our relationship that I sometimes feel concerned about.

    I wonder as an I how I could feel less impatient with this communication style and way of thinking outloud.



  246.  #246Daria on June 10, 2011 at 11:33 am

    thank you for the birthday wishes!



  247.  #247Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 11:34 am

    236: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    #230 Rusty,

    I understand where you are coming from with alot of this, but I still think we are operating under different scenarios.

    Why would a woman be moving into the home where the man raised his children? In my scenario he was divorced and has a small house or condo in Florida. Or they buy a small house/condo together in their retirement. The woman doesn’t latch onto him for “security”, the two people genuinely love each other. Why should he feel compelled to ‘give’ his children her home (or his share in it) if he dies? Actuarial tables show she is likely to outlive him by 7 yrs. – maybe up to 20.

    I’ve never been particularly marriage minded, but I’m now seeing that for older women it might offer protection from greedy heirs.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I understand where you are coming form but keep in mind, those “Greedy Heirs” may very well be his children that do love him very much. They may well view the woman as a greedy gold digger when as you state, she is not.

    It’s a tough situation. I think I would have to just be honest in a situation like this. But people aren’t honest because being honest often gets you punished for your honesty.

    I would be honest though. I might say something like, “You need to know, I have promised this house to my children. They grew up in a loving environment in it and when their mother died, I made the promise that it was theirs when I die.

    Now, with that info, she can make her own choices. Or if they have means, they can by a small cottage somewhere and let one of the kids move into the house. My grandparents did this. Bought a cozy little cottage by a lake and my aunt moved into the big house.

    A lot really depends on the age. And I would also question why a man who spent his life raising his kids, then promises them his house when he dies, now OWES a new woman everything while the kids do without.

    I can tell you that if I were in this position as a man over the age of 50, I would tell the woman this. “Here is a prenup. It allows you to live in this house, should I die first. When you die, it goes to my children. It can not be sold, upgraded, etc… It goes 100% to my children.”

    I mean think about it. If it is my home, paid off, etc… why would I want to give it to her, then when she dies a few years later, she gives it in a will to my kids. Then at best, my kids are stuck fighting for a share of it in court and by the time the lawyers get done with them, they have very little out of it.

    Think about my dad’s case. That home has never been owned by anybody outside of our family. It was built by my grandfather. In no way shape or form does some woman, and her kids from another man have any right at all to that house. Why should he sell it so that some woman can get a home that she can then give to her kids if she outlives him? That isn’t just my dad’s home…it is OUR home. That is how he sees it.

    At best, this is a complicated situation made very complicated by state laws that say that the minute you marry a woman, she gets half of the marital assets. I can assure you that this is the reason that some men won’t marry when they are older like that. How many? Who knows but I am sure it is a concern for many.

    If she is of means, it shouldn’t be a problem. I tend to believe that the younger ladies today won’t have the same problems since most of them are career women and thus have their own money.



  248.  #248Laughing Goddess on June 10, 2011 at 11:36 am

    I’m thinking about other E’s in my life.

    Do they tend to speak in monologues?



  249.  #249Daria on June 10, 2011 at 11:42 am

    i feel heavy in my chest and tummy and like throwing up

    i love my feeling heavy and like throwing up

    and that feels like a lil smile

    i love my lil smile

    and that feels like a giggle

    i love my giggle

    and that feels like

    more smile

    i love my more smile

    and that feels like

    brathing

    i love my breathing

    and that feels like

    sigh

    i love my sigh

    and that feels like

    tuning out

    i love my tuning out

    and htat feels like

    small yawn

    i love my small yawn

    and that feels like

    tingling in shoulder on right

    i love my tingling in shoulder on right

    and that feels like

    tilting my head

    i love my tilting my head

    and that feels like

    yawn

    i love my yawn

    and that feels like

    nausea

    i love my nausea

    and that feels like

    heavy right arm

    i love my heavy right arm

    and that feels like

    pinching under my left temple

    i love my pinching under my left temple

    and that feels like

    big yawn

    i love my big yawn

    and that feels like

    anger

    i love my anger

    and that feels like

    blahnk heaviness and a touch of disapoointement

    i love my blank heaviness and the touch of dissapointment

    and that feels like

    big yawn

    i love my big yawn

    and that feels like

    tingling on my thigh

    i love the tignling on my thigh

    and that feels like

    heaviness in my mouth

    i love the heaviness in my mouth

    and that feels like

    yawn

    i love my yawn

    and that feels like

    this allover numbness

    i love my allover numbness

    and taht ]feels like

    warmness in my wrist

    i love the warmness in my wrist

    and hat feels like

    yawn

    and i love my yawn

    and that feels like

    tingling above my top teeth

    and i love the tingling above my top teeth

    and that feels like

    my heart fluttering

    and i love my heart fluttering

    and that feels like

    yawn

    and i love my yawn



  250.  #250Daria on June 10, 2011 at 11:42 am

    Jaqueline and Mercedes here were ENTJ’s

    however I believe our Meyer Briggs’ stuff changes as we change

    for example, I may have come out differently before doing Rori’s work, because I experienced myself in a different way



  251.  #251Lily T. on June 10, 2011 at 11:43 am

    Rusty,

    The men I’ve dated in their 50’s were divorced not widowed. They didn’t live in the “family home”. Their ex either got that in the settlement, or the house was sold. So I don’t relate to your example of your dad.

    After reading Flowerchild’s posts, and yours, if I were ever to get into another partnership it would be with the proviso my name was put on the deed to the home. Most likely scenario would be that we would buy a condo together though.



  252.  #252Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 11:44 am

    245: Laughing GoddessNo Gravatar says:

    rusty

    I wonder as an I how I could feel less impatient with this communication style and way of thinking outloud.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Sounds like he is an EN and you are an IS. You mentioned going directly to the details…that is an S not an N while his dreaming of the improbable is the realm of an N since they think in the abstract.

    Here is what you do. My professor is an IS and his wife is an EN and he said something very similar. he said his wife would say something like, “maybe we should go to Disney World this weekend. He recognizes right away that this is just something she is tossing around in her head. So he will just say, Sure, or Nah, based on his interest.

    If he says sure, she may still come back and say something like, “Well, our daughter called and is coming to town this weekend so that’s out, but maybe we can do it in a couple of weeks.

    He knows that this is not a set plan. So he takes it for what it is. Only when she comes to him and says something like, “OK, we should go to Disney World. I have nothing planned this weekend…do you? No? OK, don’t plan anything and we will go.”

    In other words, he has learned to detect when she is just thinking out loud and when she is actually set on doing something.

    He said that is just something that you have to learn when living with an E, especially an EN. They not only think while talking but they learn while talking. An EN has a hard time learning in an environment where they can’t talk back to the instructor. Ever had a classmate that was always raising their hand? Likely an EN. This how they learn, partly because it keeps them tuned in and digesting the info. make them sit their quietly and their N is going to take over and they are going to go off in LALA land, maybe thinking about traveling around the world in a hot air balloon. LOL



  253.  #253Lily T. on June 10, 2011 at 11:50 am

    #244 Turquoise,

    Your string of Mike’s – funny. At least you don’t have to worry about slipping up and calling anyone by the wrong name LOL!



  254.  #254FlowerChild77 on June 10, 2011 at 11:53 am

    #231/SLV Oh, heavens!! I know I can’t sell it. I know exactly where I stand. There was never a doubt.

    xbf knows what happened. He was very supportive while she was sick and when she died—very. He knows I didn’t get squat.

    Yeah, it’s bothering me. I think I may have to tell my aunt about it. It feels ‘wrong’ to talk bad about my mom–but that’s how she operated–with fear, obligation and guilt. I was always wrong (others too) and she was always the victim. Yuk… No wonder I left so young…ugh…feels icky even talking about it.

    So, now I’m on to working out some feeling messages. xbf called last night and asked me to come over tomorrow. I’m afraid I’m going to get clear about what I WANT to say and just start puking out all kinds of stuff and ruining it :-p

    OK…
    I feel confused.
    I know he loves me, but too vague
    I want to know if he will ever want be married [if not there’s my answer]

    I miss him VERY much
    I am so, so grateful for all the years he stood by me
    I love him
    I love myself
    He is looking after his future
    I need to look out for mine

    He is very stubborn and many times does not even respond. He just listens and doesn’t say anything. So I might only get to say one FM because if there is no response then how can I keep talking?

    Of course he will process the information and a week or two later I’ll learn what he thought or felt. (Usually thought)

    How do you do this FM thing when the guy just doesn’t work that way?

    Help!



  255.  #255DE on June 10, 2011 at 11:55 am

    Elizabeth # 240:

    Thank you 🙂 I feel more upbeat indeed …:)

    Btw, congratulations about the situation with the gentleman in u life 😉

    Warm hugs,



  256.  #256FlowerChild77 on June 10, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    #251/Lily T.

    Since he paid the down payment and we’d only been together 2 years when he bought the house, I didn’t feel comfortable asking for my name to be on the paperwork. (And, like I said, bringing up the pension thing with his xgf as beneficiary turned into a horrible fight, so I never went down that road again.)



  257.  #257Mel on June 10, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    Turquoise,

    The universe is sure intent on finding the perfect Mike for you! LOL. 🙂



  258.  #258Lily T. on June 10, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    Hi Flowerchild, 🙂

    I am around your age and your story has given me alot to chew on lately. I’ve been trying to visualize what kind of relationship *I* want, so considering different scenarios is helpful.

    Did you see the post I wrote you this morning #177?



  259.  #259LonePlum on June 10, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    Mel

    ***The problem becomes wen it appears that he would PREFER to use porn because it’s easy and he’s tired and as a result completely neglects the needs of his partner.***

    It might also start the way around.

    _1_
    First there is a non truth or a non said, a disconnect.
    Something happened way back then, try to remember the first time you ever felt different in you marriage, something was not said.
    A truth was retained or changed.
    A fact was kept not said.
    A wish was not respected.
    A want was ignored.
    Something.
    But with no honest clear words.
    It was done as if nothing.
    I don’t know, I pick at random, totally making up an example. Do you resent leaving your life, your home town, to help his life become better?
    Or did you do something you kept hidden? (The same question goes for him too, but we can work only on ourselves)
    Often when we keep a secret or a feeling from our lover, we shut our heart and sex feels dull.
    He feels it and his heart shuts too.
    From there he feels sex dull too.
    He stops wanting sex.
    You feel rejected and you feel needy and insecure.
    He feels even less desire
    And so on and so on.
    From there you feel jealous when he comes home 5 minutes late
    Next time he comes home even later to delay the problem
    and so on and so on and his heart shuts more and more and you hurt more and more and you expect more and more and he withdraws more and more.
    It has no end…

    A heart shut down, the other heart lost the frequency and felt abandoned and sad, it started to shut down too.
    Then from this disconnect came more uneasiness, more silences, more make believe.
    One disconnect builds from the previous disconnect and so on, until it is totally impossible to match the vibes of the partner.
    Romantic relationships surf on the highest frequency. You catch it on the wave of “let go of control” “freedom” “risk” “acceptance” “allowance” “truth”.
    Today, your relationship is surfing a low frequency, on the wave of obligation, prohibition, manipulation, expectation, spying, distrust, complain, reproaches, explanation, untruth, make believe, etc…

    His body might be expressing what his mind and mouth cannot say: the frequencies are disconnected, the broadcasting is off.
    Sexual abstinence in a male means at the subconscious level “You won’t rape my body, you won’t have it. My penis is one thing I am not forced to give to you”
    The more you ask him to pay attention to you sexually, the more he feels raped.

    _2 _
    Nevertheless, he is a young man and he needs sex, no matter what.
    His marriage being tuned on a low frequency, he turns towards out of the marriage until he finds emotionally safe sex.
    Porn sites are the emotionally safest sex he can get ( I think they do hurt the emotional being, but that’s my opinion, he might think it is safe) while he gather his courage to dare meet a real woman either from a dating site or his work.
    He may even have met the woman.
    He can’t escape from his sexual needs. It is vital to him, specially if he feels controlled, he is a bomb ready to explode.

    He got himself drunk last month, which is out of character according to your degree of surprise.
    He is out of control, he is trying to escape from your control on one hand and on the other hand he is trying to control himself from exploding, but he can’t.
    So he knocked himself out.
    I am under the impression he does not meet his friends very often at his home and yet he did not enjoy them. Instead, he drunk himself to sleep.
    He lost control.

    (To whomever is reading at random, don’t cry that I defend men against wives.
    I am not.
    I am expressing a possible mechanic of the disconnection.
    Wanting to find a guilty person against a victim, not only is immature, but is sure to end up in a bad divorce, followed by another bad relationship.
    So cool down, I am not saying he or Mel did wrong or right. I am exposing a possible schema. There is nothing new under the sun)

    All this to say, in this schema, porn would be the result of the problem between you two.
    Not the way around.
    Forget porn.
    Try to pretend you never knew, not for him, but for yourself, try to feel relax and to not think of it.

    Porn would not be the root of the problem, it would be a safety escape to keep from exploding.

    Let it be, while you work on understanding yourself. What beliefs make you feel and do what you feel and do, etc?
    Stop working on his feelings and his attitude.
    You can’t work on it and the more you try, even from far, hoping he does this or that, the more he feels raped.

    Show him his mother is not controlling him, she does not live with him and he is way too old to ask permission to stay late at work or to go to a restaurant.
    He is an adult and talk to the adult in him, you’ll get the answer of the adult.

    The more you stay out of his private life, the more you let him free to mess his tooth paste tube, to leave his shoes in the hall way, to go dancing and dining without drama or long explanations of each of his move, the less he will need to do it.
    The bomb will start to defuse itself.

    His life will be about him again, he will take the control back of his life.
    Only then will he be able to decide to share fun with you rather than with anybody else.
    When he comes to this point is when it will be good to go to a counselor to negotiate the space he needs and that you are willing to accept.

    Right now he can’t take the decision, he has no power over his life, he feels controlled by the “rules”.
    Now he is hiding inside his bomb, ready to explode any time.
    In which case you lose your marriage.

    Either you keep asking him to be the husband you have decided he should be, and he will explode for sure.

    Or

    you let go off control totally. He might explode anyway, in which case you get the same result, or the bomb defuse by itself and you win.

    There is nothing new under the sun.

    ******It can also become the case that real sex becomes “blah” because it just doesn’t have the same level of stimulation.******

    The level of stimulation goes down as the frequency goes from high to low
    Concentrate on healing your vibe before you think of anything or anybody else.

    If I had the recipe to get out of suffering and out of longing, the recipe to put ourselves to work once and for all on ourselves, I swear I would give it to you. I hate to see you struggling and crying, Mel.

    If there is one chance left to keep this marriage on, it is by owning your own life and trusting him to be an adult and to take his own road.

    You might try to give some time with real let go this time, real real real let go, and you might be surprised to see he chooses to take the road that leads back to you.

    As long as you hold his leach he can’t choose to take any road, he can only pull on the leach to get free off it. Let him go, let him swag his tail, let him bark once or twice, let him put his nose in other’s pee and see where he chooses to go.

    You might be surprised.

    xxx



  260.  #260Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    133: DariaNo Gravatar says:

    Rusty – oh wow! i feel surprised

    i thought that everyone would agree that “you got me lost” is a statement that would trigger anyone

    like it places the blame on the other person

    but for you to say that ok, you would say this, makes it a touch easier for me to say okay… maybe its just a perception thing

    for me being told “you got me lost” … i feel FURIOUS

    it feels so unfair, i actually freeze up and feel scared to even say anything

    and also, he was dropping me off, and i did not have us lost..he was worried about how he would get back

    yeah i definintely can’t tolerate being talked to that way in a relationship

    at least not at the level of communication and relation skills i have right now

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Yeah, it’s not that either way is right or wrong. People just have different ways or relating. I think the Meyers-Briggs would jet let you find someone better suited.

    You pretty much nailed it. For you, being told that makes you feel scared and blamed.

    I am an ENTJ and for me, I MUST feel that I can speak my mind freely. See, for me, had I said that, and then you just said, “Sorry” that would have been enough and life goes on. I probably wouldn’t even give it another thought. At most, it might be a joke between me and my women that I can’t take her directions unless I am up for an adventure.

    If I do not feel like I can speak freely, I would not feel SAFE in the relationship. I would always wonder when some little thing I said would be perceived as something much bigger and she would walk out on me, or start a bunch of drama, etc…

    For me, saying, “You got me lost” is nothing more than acknowledging the present situation. It is thinking out loud…something ENs do a lot. But at the same time, i know I am not perfect nor do I expect anyone else to be perfect and I know we all make mistakes. It would feel good just to hear her say, “Sorry.”

    Another thing is that An ENTJ is said to be hypercritical. Their are the the prime leader of the four TJs wich are the natural leader, which is why the nickname for ENTJ is the Field Marshall.

    Often, I find that all I want is for somebody to acknowledge that they did make a mistake. Why? I think it goes to the logical side. You know that the only way to learn from mistakes it to acknowledge them.

    We are very driven and expect a lot from ourselves and others. That is not to say that you expect perfection. You expect people to strive to be their best. When I coached (played and coached) one of my command’s softball teams, i expected guys to totally go for it. We didn’t consider ourselves a beer league team. Some teams did, and some didn’t. We lost two games that year and finished in a 3 way tie for 1st. In the mini tournament to determine the winner, we finished 2nd by one run. I overheard one of the guys at a practice telling a guy who wanted to be center fielder, “You better be diving for balls. He won’t play you if you aren’t giving 110%”

    We did have another command team that played in the evening league and they were very much a beer league team. So everyone got what they wanted. Those driven to excel had a team and those just looking to kick it around for something to pass time, had a team also.

    I am fascinated by this stuff though. I am still trying to put all of this together. Sort of a self learning thing.

    I agree with the woman above who said that the Meyers-Briggs can be used to simply help understand other people and thus relate to them better. This is 100% true. Even our professor said that it also wasn’t to be used as an excuse for how you act. He said that what your goal should be is to work towards being a zero and that being a 60 is actually a bit of a fault.

    However, the experts disagree with you on your type changing. They tend to agree that only during childhood is it being totally set.

    However, what you say is true to an extent. See, things in your life, especially big things, like a divorce, or death in the family, or being homeless, etc.. can modify your type slightly. However, the experts, according to my professor, say that over time, and especially under stress, you will tend to revert back to your default type. I do think there is some modification but I think it is minor I think where this come in to play with people switching types is that somebody might be an E, but just a little into the E. Something like a divorce might make them modify a bit, for awhile, into being just across the zero into I territory. If he were an E60 he might simply move down to being an E30

    Also, you can learn to modify it a bit for instance as an E, I am now more aware of my verbal tendencies and try to work on not interrupting people and other stuff like that. He did say that you do want to strive to modify yourself to being more well rounded and thus work towards zeros. But as stated, even though you are now a zero, you are really an E60 acting like an I0E. Like an alcoholic who is on the wagon. it is easy to fall off that wagon and revert to the old ways. So it takes commitment to being a zero.



  261.  #261Mel on June 10, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    Hey Rusty,

    I tried to do some online personality tests. I think for the last 3 letters I am definitely NFJ. But I seem to be almost 50/50 between I &E for the first letter. I hate being alone (definitely do not recharge by having alone time), and can see the “chatty” tendencies and “thinking out loud” in myself like you spoke of in your example. But I am still quite shy (although people would probably not guess that about me because I try not to let it get in the way). I also prefer to have a small group of close friends to being a “social butterfly.”

    I also was reading that there is a “shadow” personality that each type has that they display when they are highly stressed. I could definitely see these characteristics in me (pessimistic, critical…)

    And this made me think that perhaps all I am seeing of my husband right now is also his shadow personality… interesting.



  262.  #262Lucy on June 10, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    Here’s my Aussie cybercutie’s response to Rusty’s statements about Australian dating:

    “Not the way it works in my world hun… You are either a gentleman with class and pay for the meal… and if sex comes along with the date, its a bonus… Or u can be a scrooge and make her pay for her meal, and most likely end up going home with your hand around your cock…lol ;)… It depends on the person. We have no set rules or customs here.”



  263.  #263Mel on June 10, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    Re: 259

    That was amazing LonePlum!
    What you had to say makes a lot of sense.

    I just wish there was a way to know what started this chain reaction between us off? Although maybe it doesn’t matter

    Thanks! 🙂

    I love this song, which kinda speaks to me right now and is also a little bit of what you are saying (let it go):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKU3UuJhIxU



  264.  #264LonePlum on June 10, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    JOYEUX ANNIVERSAIRE

    Daria
    BRENDA 😉 🙂
    Gina
    Lucy (for tomorrow)
    Laughing Goddess (for tuesday )
    SLV (Gemini is close to now I think )
    🙂
    Lots of chocolate pie with vanilla ice cream and many many more birthdays to come.

    And I declare BRENDA allowed to forget depression.
    I declare BRENDA belongs to the strong and healthy.

    xxx



  265.  #265Lucy on June 10, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    Just got my divorce decree in the mail! It is finally final. Feels so weird…. but very interesting timing….. There is definitely something to that cycles of Saturn thing! I feel excited and thrilled that the stars are shifting for me!!!!



  266.  #266Lucy on June 10, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    Thank you Loneplum!



  267.  #267Lucy on June 10, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    Mel “I think for the last 3 letters I am definitely NFJ. But I seem to be almost 50/50 between I &E for the first letter.”

    I am close to 50/50 on all but N (very strong N).



  268.  #268Lucy on June 10, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    260 I disagree with the idea that “you got me lost” is simply an EN trait. I would say that it may be an unhealthy tendency of an EN.

    I totally get that desire for the person to admit they are “wrong” so that they can learn etc. etc. I used to be a lot like that, and rationalized and justified it just the way you did in that comment.

    However, I have learnt over the past couple years, that this type of need actually comes from an egoic defense place and actually contributes to disconnect, conflict, and/or dysfunction in relationships.

    As I have become more aware, and healed more (inner bonding, etc.), I have become more loving and more responsible for my own “stuff” – and do far less blaming, criticizing, judging, etc.

    The feeling of “unsafety” you feel when the other person responds emotionally to being blamed (as Daria did) comes not from the outside (e.g., Daria), but from the inside…. the things inside the blamer that need healing, the part that feels afraid when they sense they are losing control of a situation.



  269.  #269Lucy on June 10, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    Daria “however I believe our Meyer Briggs’ stuff changes as we change”

    I agree… especially if there are large shifts in thoughts/beliefs/patterns etc. and lots of healing.

    One of the best ways to Not grow/heal/change is to lock yourself into a “type” on any personality assessment.



  270.  #270Queenbee on June 10, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    Has anyone browsed seekingarrangement.com or seekingmillionnaire.com

    What do Sirens think of this?

    Thinking about my CDing experiences and processing all sorts of stuff…. lots going on…

    Rori encourages us to use online dating –

    I’ve never done it and have been considering writing a profile at least for the practice.

    I’ve browsed the common ones but I don’t get an activation email back. Anyone else had this experience?

    Sometimes you can browse some profiles without signing up. When I see the men who are in my locale, I don’t see anyone who I could actually date and end up in an LTR with.

    I have a CD who’s a nice guy and he’s been stepping up and asking me out etc.

    We haven’t yet gone on the date… but I certainly will do.

    I suppose I’m running into what some Sirens have commented about before that what/ how do you date someone you are not attracted to?

    I am clear that I would never choose this man.

    I would love to have him as a friend and also do business with him, but definitely not my man.

    I feel sad saying this – I feel guilty like I’m judging – but some things just are black and white, no?

    What if I’m using FMs, leaning back… practicing the tools etc. Then I can actually feel him coming closer to me, feeling safe to open up, stepping up. Isn’t this ‘playing’ with someone’s emotions?

    For example, if I say ‘It feels good to hear from you’, when he calls. I only feel good coz I don’t actually feel bad – but I’m not overly excited to hear from him.

    Now if he called me as a friend, I would feel thrilled.

    I feel afraid that if I ‘let him down’ – coz at some point when he brings it up officially, I’ll be honest – well I worry/ fear that I’ll also lose the benefit of being friends… or maybe it won’t be that bad seeing as we do have similar interests.

    I guess it’s the attention I fear losing. Like he won’t act promptly when I need something, but he would now. Anyone else have such an experience?

    So going back to the websites above. I’ve been noticing, but never fully defined that the kind of man I would want is someone who I can feel pampered with.

    I feel dreadful going on dates where things are just not up to par and I would rather CD myself in that case.

    I’ve had men I’ve been ‘into’ withdraw because they don’t have the financial capability, and said it straight. It hurt, but I finally came to my senses and realized he was right.

    I would never be happy struggling and suffering for no reason.

    I disagree with the statement ‘I’m beautiful so I don’t want to work’.

    I work in my passion and to me this is one of the greatest gifts of my life and I intend to produce a substantive income from it. Just owning my power and what makes me feel good.

    I still would feel better with a man who can pamper me. I feel like it would help me to relax after hours and hours of stuff I do…. and traveling all over the place… I would feel good with someone who has the FC to meet me in different parts of the world when I’m gone so that I don’t feel so lonely and bored.

    I’ve noticed these thoughts/ tendencies/ issues in myself over years, but never really paid attention. I also feel afraid of judgements towards myself, feeling stuck in limiting beliefs, having a bad experience, biting off more than I can chew….

    I started feeling needy and clingy again after leaning back and feeling more powerful and CDing etc. using my boy energy for stuff… so I’ve noticed that I can use my Siren wings by browsing online dating sites and possibly coming up with a profile…. It really helps me to feel unstuck and it opens my mind and heart to other possibilities, which feels good.

    Speaking of bad experiences – I have been a ‘sugar baby’ before (3.5 years – LDR) – I had an inkling of it, but never really acknowledged it.

    He was older (18 years, handsome, tan and muscular 🙂 – feeling afraid of being judged and vulnerable writing this. Feeling ick in my stomach mentioning his positive attributes). I feel better being open. I don’t want to hide in any way – feeling afraid and tightness in stomach.

    I was attracted to him for his humor, agreed to a date because I felt lonely and noticed he had a lot of time, which sealed it for me. That felt amazing! The man had all the time in the world for me – and he never let me down in that way.

    I never received an ‘allowance’ but he definitely pampered me with gifts etc. He was very generous.

    The only problem is that it was not ‘sugar-y’ at all. He had some health problem and so I felt like a dark cloud was always over me when I was with him. I just never felt connected. His fun involved too much drinking and that made me feel scared for my life – drink-driving and such.

    Things became unbearable and I saw no future, so I ended it.

    Now here I am again.

    I feel good that this stuff is coming up and I can process about it here on the Island.

    I definitely believe that there are good men out there who are FC and can be loving – and I can be with and still live my life passionately?

    I don’t want to feel stuck in a limiting belief about what life and love ‘should’ look like.

    I’m all for creating a better, easier, fun and more loving and fulfilled experience for me and this includes choosing a man who is FC in a big way.

    I feel worried that I’m in my early 30s and if I was to focus exclusively on men in my town, I could be looking for such a long time….

    Then I feel clingy and needy because a ‘certain man’ had the FC quality, but I felt unimportant to him – and then I feel frustrated coz I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place…. like I’m not meeting anyone else/ better.

    I end up choosing me – my happiness, my power and love….

    I’m still open to CDing and meeting people from all over the world.

    But I won’t do LDRs.

    So just thinking about all these ‘criteria’ makes me feel a sense of urgency – like I need to get cracking on something…

    I used to think it would all just fall into place and I have everything going for me anyway… but now noticing, it’s not all that simple – maybe ‘easy’ as Rori suggests, but not simple in my current reality.

    At least I know what I want. I feel scared to write the ‘M-nnaire’ word on here 🙁

    Also feeling scared and judgement of bringing on the worst to myself.

    Is there anything wrong with this? I mean, I don’t feel any gut pangs or anything – just some fear and tensing up of my body – like afraid of the unknown and resisting stepping into my life (with or without the man) – just the whole idea of ‘power’, ‘wealth consciousness’ and what that means for me as a real practical result in my life – aside from a man. It feels like all the same issue really….

    I guess what I’m attracted to is the mindset, the vibe and the character needed to create that wealth and not the dollars and cents.

    I definitely do not want a workaholic man and I don’t want to be anyone’s trophy… or any other variation of ‘icky’.

    Oh, if I could have more FC, generous men to choose from (and actually accessible – no LDR) then I’d feel like I have ‘real’ options and I can practice with them rather than men I feel I would be leading on 🙁

    mmh… a real relationship with a real person. At least I’m getting some idea of what would feel good to me.

    I feel better. I feel a softening in my chest and my body relax. It feels like the beginning of fuller self-acceptance and just getting to know myself all over again.

    I still feel a bit shaky… when I go into my head…. But still can’t get my head around what I would be doing with a man who has no FC, especially when my ‘the one (who I thought)’ said he had no FC and withdrew.

    ARRRGGGGH! That feels like being hit in the stomach. Although, I respect him and I GET IT. I feel judgmental about what I perceive as his mindset – and then I get it again – a pendulum experience.

    So why make life more difficult when it can be so much more?

    Perhaps, this is my path…

    What do you think Sirens?

    xoxo



  271.  #271Lucy on June 10, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    LG: “And sometimes he will say something like, “we should do _____” and oftentimes it’s something for way in the future or just an idea that’s not really realistic like “we should travel around the world in an air balloon”.

    “I know he is just fantasizing and having fun yet I feel stressed because immediately my mind goes into figuring the details of how it could work.”

    …………..

    My ex-h was like that. Lol. Always saying, “let’s go to Disney World this year” yet never following through. The sad part for us is that he said it in front of the Kids, who got all excited!! 🙁

    Anyway, he is an I, and I am an E/I (50/50).

    That trait seems to be more in line with the “9” on the enneagram, which is what my ex-h is. I am a “1” on the enneagram.

    Are you familiar with the enneagram? That might be a good tool to help you with your differences. It also provides guidelines for becoming healthier within your type.



  272.  #272Daria on June 10, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    Thank you Loneplum!



  273.  #273FlowerChild77 on June 10, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    #177/Lily T. Thanks for steering me back through the blog–I did miss your post 🙂

    >>>”Flowerchild 77,

    Have you talked to your long time partner about how you will be protected if something should happen to him? It feels very unfair to me that during your 12 yr. partnership, he put his money into something that became an asset (and his alone), while you paid for everything else making it possible and are left with nothing. How can he not see that?

    I know you want marriage, partly for the financial/having a home protection, but would you and he consider any alternatives? Would he consider putting you on the deed to the house? Creating an iron-clad will that left you the property and any other tangible assets accumulated?

    If he doesn’t want to marry after 12 good yrs. together, and after you leaving him over it, I don’t know that he would ever change his mind. But you seem to love him very much and the life you had together – I’m just wondering if you could find a way you could feel secure with him and your future without necessarily having a legal license.

    What do you think?”<<<

    ****************************************************

    #177/Lily T. Thanks for steering me back through the blog–I did miss your post (above) 🙂

    Yes, now that I look at the whole big picture, it seems unfair. I think since he's always brought in much more money than I (like 5-6 times more) that he figured he paid for the house. I've also been welcome to live there and make it my home….so I don't think he 'sees' the situation as I do.

    I know him quite well. I'm pretty sure that to him, talking about what happens after he dies, etc. makes it more real…and 'doing' something (papers, wills, etc.) even more so. I actually believe that the only reason he hasn't changed the beneficiary on his pension is some laziness and just not wanting to deal with it.

    So I see some real obstacles in making myself heard through FMs without making him feel wrong or blamed. I'm not sure that he really understands why I left. At the time it was more about living my myself for awhile (partly because of this) than "leaving him" over any specific thing.

    I really, really want to be married…but if I could change the way we communicate (with Rori's tools, etc.) and he would agree to somehow make sure that I felt safe NOW about the future (like, not waiting till he dies to find out) I might be able to accept that instead of holding out for marriage—-only because I do know that he loves me.

    I need serious Siren help with this <3



  274.  #274Lucy on June 10, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    Thanks for the birthday wishes, Camile! 🙂



  275.  #275Daria on June 10, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    My dad had a habit of doing this blame thingy, and it feels terrible to both me and my mom

    Definitely not ok

    If I were to go for first instinct response it would be

    ‘ How dare you blame me! You no responsibility taking blamed person.. I don’t Blame You! I expect the same great treatment’

    And in that is blame so I can see it’s a mirror thingy.

    I really can just use it as an opportunity to heal and not blame, as challenging as that is to my mind habits.



  276.  #276FlowerChild77 on June 10, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    <3 Birthday wishes to everyone <3

    I'm sorry I'm being kind of selfish. I don't see him often and so I'm really worried about getting it right when I do see him (tomorrow.) He calls nearly every day, but this stuff has to be done in person.

    I'm not trying to ignore other people—I SO appreciate the Siren help I'm getting. (And thank you, Rusty for your opinion.)



  277.  #277LobbyStar on June 10, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    I feel sad today. I ran into S in the grocery store. He said hi first, and also said hello to my son. My son ignored him and S said that was normal. I just said “yep” and shrugged, with a strained grin frozen on my face. That was it.

    I felt ok at first, but by the time I was driving home, I cried. I just feel sad.



  278.  #278Lucy on June 10, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    214 Rusty. PriCeless words for Mel! To me that is perfect. That is where I eventually got to with my ex-h, after a lot of not-so-good alternative ways of handling it.

    Turns out my ex is an asexual sex addict (mildly schizoid), so relationship just doesn’t work for him.

    I am now free to be with a man who likes twosome sex like I do. 🙂



  279.  #279Lily T. on June 10, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    Flowerchild,

    Since you have said he is a man of very few words, what do you think of the idea of putting your feelings/concerns/desires down in a letter to him? A real paper and pen letter that he would have to hold, “undeletable”? Something he could really think about and you could discuss after he’s had time for it to sink in.

    What do you think?



  280.  #280Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    148: Lucy says:

    110 Rusty. If you used myers-briggs to choose a mate, what m-b type would you look for? am curious…

    Well, this is what it says for relationships.

    Best types for a relationship: ESTJ, ISTP, ENTJ, ENFJ, INTJ

    Possible types for a relationship: ISTJ, ESTP, ENTP, INTP, INFJ, ENFP

    Least likely types for a relationship: ESFJ, ISFJ, ESFP, ISFP, INFP

    I find it intriguing that all three of the other natural leaders are among the 5 best types for me. It seems right since I have had this fantasy image of a painting of me and the wife. I saw something similar, and yet very different. Some friends of mine had a painting done of them where he was a pirate and she was a wench. LOL

    It triggered a thought of how I would want one done. This is the closest I can come to what I want with a simple search of google.

    http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2009/365/8/6/Spartan_warriors___300_tribute_by_rafater.jpg

    The big difference is that I would have her on the left of him with her left shoulder touching his right shoulder, and while he is turned slightly to the right, she would be turned slightly to the left of the picture. This is significant because it denotes two warrior leaders together and having each others’ back. I did picture the red capes and more gold color to the armor. I also picture slightly different poses, like his sword lower, more relaxed, and her also with a sword, not a pike. Maybe some very fancy shields or something.

    I also did not picture the dogs or the dead bodies. I pictured a line up of 300 type soldiers in the background maybe slightly out of focus.

    Maybe this points to why an ENTJ has all of the other natural leaders in the best relationship types.

    I should note though that the ENTJ still want to be THEE leader. So while she would be the Warrior Queen, he is the Warrior King.



  281.  #281Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    Maybe something like this in the background, though many more warriors since it would be well behind the pair.

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_eV5ecuY–As/SjzS9aBueCI/AAAAAAAABS4/_iCjnDxUhDE/S220/300spartanwarriors-Nikos+Panos+phalanx-A.jpg



  282.  #282Lucy on June 10, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    Thanks for the birthday wishes DE! 🙂

    Daria, as far as sex being more boring than before, I find it really makes a difference who I’m with. It’s that chemistry thing… for me anyway.

    That was one reason things didn’t work out with that rich guy I dated last year… just no sexual chemistry… and I did give it some time to improve… but it got less instead of more. 🙁



  283.  #283Lucy on June 10, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    Queenbee, thank you!

    And anyone I have missed, thank you for the birthday wishes!



  284.  #284Lucy on June 10, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    Rusty, I’m pretty much an Eowyn girl myself… and attracted to an Aragorn or a Faramir.



  285.  #285Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    236: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    #230 Rusty,

    I understand where you are coming from with alot of this, but I still think we are operating under different scenarios.

    Why would a woman be moving into the home where the man raised his children? In my scenario he was divorced and has a small house or condo in Florida. Or they buy a small house/condo together in their retirement. The woman doesn’t latch onto him for “security”, the two people genuinely love each other.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I agree that there are many different scenarios. And everyone has to figure this out for themselves based on that fact.

    But you do need to at least take the facts into consideration and think about it from the other man’s point of view. And his family that WAS there before you. That is all I am saying. Some scenarios, there may not even be a family since he may not have had any kids.

    Others, they may be very well off and have no need for the family house…other than to maybe just keep it in the family, which is important to some people.

    Think of it from this perspective. YOU have a large 4 bedroom hose in a nice neighborhood that you raised your kids in their entire lives. It was you husband’s father’s house originally. He died and left you the house. The kids are now grown and off on their own, some living in the same town.

    Along comes a man who has nothing. He doesn’t own a home or the means to buy his own home. You two start dating, and end up marrying. For one reason or another, you die first and he inherits the house. He dies a few years later and leaves the house to his kids.

    Seriously think about that. I am pretty sure that those you left behind would have some hard feeling that the home that you and your husband worked for their entire life, a family home, went to another man’s kids. No?

    My point is that it is not a black and white situation.

    I do agree though that if the man and his new wife have the means, in a situation like this, they could jointly purchase a small cottage, townhouse, condo, etc… and live together in that. Likely a better place for an older couple since a large house requires a lot of maintenance to keep it up and clean.

    Better to buy something new and give the house to one of his kids. Might even save them some taxes that way. Though there is that pesky Capital Gains thing. Cheaper than an inheritance tax though, I think.

    Heck, if I were the man in that scenario I described, I would say, let’s buy an RV and live in that. One of those really nice ones. Especially if there are no jobs to go to anymore. Total freedom and it is far cheaper to rent a spot in a campground than rent an apartment.

    I think i like it because I like to travel and love the state and national parks. I totally love Yosemite. My feeling is that retirement should be spent traveling and seeing things.



  286.  #286Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    283: LucyNo Gravatar says:

    Rusty, I’m pretty much an Eowyn girl myself… and attracted to an Aragorn or a Faramir.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Yeah, she was very cool. I was torn because I have always liked Liv Tyler but as for characters, I loved Eowyn.

    I felt bad for her loving Aragorn but he was in love with the Elf Princess, Lady Arwen.

    But I liked the ending that it appears that she will be queen and Faramir will be her King.

    BTW, I heard rumor that they are doing the Hobbit now. That should be good, but I wonder how good it can be compared to the Lord of the Rings.

    I would love to see them do The Belgariad, and The Malloreon.

    However, those are two five book sets that make up one large story. Then to make matters worse, he wrote a prequel book to flesh out the story of Belgarath the sorcerer. His story was constantly being touched upon throughout the other ten books. I think he also wrote a book about his daughter sorceress. I can’t remember her name though. Let me Google.

    Polgara. Google is my friend. 😉 And yes, he did a book for her also called “Polgara the Sorceress”

    Anyway, it has been hailed as the best in this genre since Lord of the Rings. If they put as much into filming it as they did The Lord of the Rings, it would be epic beyond imagination.



  287.  #287Lilybelle on June 10, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    262:

    I like your Aussie friend. Straight to the point.

    🙂



  288.  #288Lily T. on June 10, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    #284 Just “giving the house to the kids” is not always possible Rusty. Taxes, Insurance, cost of living increases and medical bills sometimes make it impossible to make such a gift. Sometimes the family home has to be sold to support the owner’s in their old age.

    It’s curious that in none of your scenarios do you suggest “the kids” buying the family home for market value.



  289.  #289flower on June 10, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    so yes it felt so good after using the feeling messages earlier today and i dont feel this tension i had inside chest , so maybe things got changed for me eventually , whatever it will bring , whther it wilel ventually bring him or not feels good to have done this



  290.  #290Queenbee on June 10, 2011 at 2:25 pm

    #209 – “Historically marriage, religious connotation aside, has been about guardianship of children, inheritance and property rights”.

    I love this. Easy to forget. Puts a whole new spin on things.

    xoxo



  291.  #291Lilybelle on June 10, 2011 at 2:29 pm

    241:

    Yay for Soulmate rings! I looked today when I was at the store and couldn’t find the machines.

    I’ll keep searching.



  292.  #292Queenbee on June 10, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    Has anyone browsed seekingarrangement’dot’com or seekingmillionnaire’dot’com

    What do Sirens think of this?

    Thinking about my CDing experiences and processing all sorts of stuff…. lots going on…

    Rori encourages us to use online dating –

    I’ve never done it and have been considering writing a profile at least for the practice.

    I’ve browsed the common ones but I don’t get an activation email back. Anyone else had this experience?

    Sometimes you can browse some profiles without signing up. When I see the men who are in my locale, I don’t see anyone who I could actually date and end up in an LTR with.

    I have a CD who’s a nice guy and he’s been stepping up and asking me out etc.

    We haven’t yet gone on the date… but I certainly will do.

    I suppose I’m running into what some Sirens have commented about before that what/ how do you date someone you are not attracted to?

    I am clear that I would never choose this man.

    I would love to have him as a friend and also do business with him, but definitely not my man.

    I feel sad saying this – I feel guilty like I’m judging – but some things just are black and white, no?

    What if I’m using FMs, leaning back… practicing the tools etc. Then I can actually feel him coming closer to me, feeling safe to open up, stepping up. Isn’t this ‘playing’ with someone’s emotions?

    For example, if I say ‘It feels good to hear from you’, when he calls. I only feel good coz I don’t actually feel bad – but I’m not overly excited to hear from him.

    Now if he called me as a friend, I would feel thrilled.

    I feel afraid that if I ‘let him down’ – coz at some point when he brings it up officially, I’ll be honest – well I worry/ fear that I’ll also lose the benefit of being friends… or maybe it won’t be that bad seeing as we do have similar interests.

    I guess it’s the attention I fear losing. Like he won’t act promptly when I need something, but he would now. Anyone else have such an experience?

    So going back to the websites above. I’ve been noticing, but never fully defined that the kind of man I would want is someone who I can feel pampered with.

    I feel dreadful going on dates where things are just not up to par and I would rather CD myself in that case.

    I’ve had men I’ve been ‘into’ withdraw because they don’t have the financial capability, and said it straight. It hurt, but I finally came to my senses and realized he was right.

    I would never be happy struggling and suffering for no reason.

    I disagree with the statement ‘I’m beautiful so I don’t want to work’.

    I work in my passion and to me this is one of the greatest gifts of my life and I intend to produce a substantive income from it. Just owning my power and what makes me feel good.

    I still would feel better with a man who can pamper me. I feel like it would help me to relax after hours and hours of stuff I do…. and traveling all over the place… I would feel good with someone who has the FC to meet me in different parts of the world when I’m gone so that I don’t feel so lonely and bored.

    I’ve noticed these thoughts/ tendencies/ issues in myself over years, but never really paid attention. I also feel afraid of judgements towards myself, feeling stuck in limiting beliefs, having a bad experience, biting off more than I can chew….

    I started feeling needy and clingy again after leaning back and feeling more powerful and CDing etc. using my boy energy for stuff… so I’ve noticed that I can use my Siren wings by browsing online dating sites and possibly coming up with a profile…. It really helps me to feel unstuck and it opens my mind and heart to other possibilities, which feels good.

    Speaking of bad experiences – I have been a ‘sugar baby’ before (3.5 years – LDR) – I had an inkling of it, but never really acknowledged it.

    He was older (18 years, handsome, tan and muscular 🙂 – feeling afraid of being judged and vulnerable writing this. Feeling ick in my stomach mentioning his positive attributes). I feel better being open. I don’t want to hide in any way – feeling afraid and tightness in stomach.

    I was attracted to him for his humor, agreed to a date because I felt lonely and noticed he had a lot of time, which sealed it for me. That felt amazing! The man had all the time in the world for me – and he never let me down in that way.

    I never received an ‘allowance’ but he definitely pampered me with gifts etc. He was very generous.

    The only problem is that it was not ‘sugar-y’ at all. He had some health problem and so I felt like a dark cloud was always over me when I was with him. I just never felt connected. His fun involved too much drinking and that made me feel scared for my life – drink-driving and such.

    Things became unbearable and I saw no future, so I ended it.

    Now here I am again.

    I feel good that this stuff is coming up and I can process about it here on the Island.

    I definitely believe that there are good men out there who are FC and can be loving – and I can be with and still live my life passionately?

    I don’t want to feel stuck in a limiting belief about what life and love ‘should’ look like.

    I’m all for creating a better, easier, fun and more loving and fulfilled experience for me and this includes choosing a man who is FC in a big way.

    I feel worried that I’m in my early 30s and if I was to focus exclusively on men in my town, I could be looking for such a long time….

    Then I feel clingy and needy because a ‘certain man’ had the FC quality, but I felt unimportant to him – and then I feel frustrated coz I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place…. like I’m not meeting anyone else/ better.

    I end up choosing me – my happiness, my power and love….

    I’m still open to CDing and meeting people from all over the world.

    But I won’t do LDRs.

    So just thinking about all these ‘criteria’ makes me feel a sense of urgency – like I need to get cracking on something…

    I used to think it would all just fall into place and I have everything going for me anyway… but now noticing, it’s not all that simple – maybe ‘easy’ as Rori suggests, but not simple in my current reality.

    At least I know what I want. I feel scared to write the ‘M-nnaire’ word on here 🙁

    Also feeling scared and judgement of bringing on the worst to myself.

    Is there anything wrong with this? I mean, I don’t feel any gut pangs or anything – just some fear and tensing up of my body – like afraid of the unknown and resisting stepping into my life (with or without the man) – just the whole idea of ‘power’, ‘wealth consciousness’ and what that means for me as a real practical result in my life – aside from a man. It feels like all the same issue really….

    I guess what I’m attracted to is the mindset, the vibe and the character needed to create that wealth and not the dollars and cents.

    I definitely do not want a workaholic man and I don’t want to be anyone’s trophy… or any other variation of ‘icky’.

    Oh, if I could have more FC, generous men to choose from (and actually accessible – no LDR) then I’d feel like I have ‘real’ options and I can practice with them rather than men I feel I would be leading on 🙁

    mmh… a real relationship with a real person. At least I’m getting some idea of what would feel good to me.

    I feel better. I feel a softening in my chest and my body relax. It feels like the beginning of fuller self-acceptance and just getting to know myself all over again.

    I still feel a bit shaky… when I go into my head…. But still can’t get my head around what I would be doing with a man who has no FC, especially when my ‘the one (who I thought)’ said he had no FC and withdrew.

    ARRRGGGGH! That feels like being hit in the stomach. Although, I respect him and I GET IT. I feel judgmental about what I perceive as his mindset – and then I get it again – a pendulum experience.

    So why make life more difficult when it can be so much more?

    Perhaps, this is my path…

    What do you think Sirens?

    xoxo



  293.  #293Lilybelle on June 10, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    259:

    Lone Plum~

    Bravo, Bravo, BRAVO!!!



  294.  #294Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    287: Lily T. says:

    #284 Just “giving the house to the kids” is not always possible Rusty. Taxes, Insurance, cost of living increases and medical bills sometimes make it impossible to make such a gift. Sometimes the family home has to be sold to support the owner’s in their old age.

    It’s curious that in none of your scenarios do you suggest “the kids” buying the family home for market value.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    No, if you notice, do have a modified version of that. My father’s intent would be that my sister, the likely person to live in the house, would pay her three siblings 3/4 of the cost of the house.

    Also in your scenario, the wife, and then likely her kids, end up with everything if one of his kids simply buys the house, and then the new couple go off and buy a new house. he dies, leaves her that new house in the will and then she dies a few years later and leaves it to her kids.

    You do realize that this stuff is one of the prime reasons for such hate and discontent in these types of relationships as children from both sides jockey for position. I think it is disgusting myself.

    And like I said, each situation is different though. Everything depends on the many variables that come into play.

    You still haven’t answered a question though. What if you built a life with a man that either dies or leaves you. You have kids. Then you meet a new man in your later years and marry. Do you think he should get your home? What would you want left for your kids?

    I always thought it was the same for women but maybe not. I think it is a very big deal, for most men, leaving their fortune, be what it may, to their kids.

    My feeling would be that whatever I come to the new relationship with, is theirs. Anything we gain together in the new relationship, without sacrificing what is to be left to the kids, is hers. In other words, I don’t subscribe to just selling the family home, then buying a new one so that it then passes to the new wife. That’s no different than just leaving the first home to her. I can see many men refusing to buy a new home since in most states it is required that the wife’s name be on the deed.

    I guess it is a matter of perspective. I think if you look at it from an angle where you were successful in life and built up something to leave to your kids, then marry a new man in your 50s or 60s, a man who was not so successful, how do you see things going if you die before he does.

    I also understand that some older folks have to use their house as an investment and draw from it for their medical needs.

    Like I said, each case is different. That said, maybe we would be better off being allowed to look after our own needs instead of the idiotic and subpar way the government tries to do it.



  295.  #295Lily T. on June 10, 2011 at 2:58 pm

    1. I don’t think kids are “owed” an inheritance. Up to parent if they want to leave one.

    2. Women, statistically, tend to outlive men. And not by “just a few years later”, sometimes DECADES later.

    3. “You still haven’t answered a question though. What if you built a life with a man that either dies or leaves you. You have kids. Then you meet a new man in your later years and marry. Do you think he should get your home? What would you want left for your kids?

    My answer: My kids are grown. If I pre-decease him, he wouldn’t be getting MY home, he’d be getting OUR home.

    4. If I was successful enough to leave something to my kids, I would do so. But not if it would result in hardship for my partner.

    This is what wills are for.

    I’ve lost interest in this conversation.



  296.  #296Lily T. on June 10, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    off



  297.  #297FlowerChild77 on June 10, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    #278/Lily T.

    I’ve thought of that many times…and it may be my only real chance to share how I feel. That’s a great idea.

    I still need some help with my FMs. I don’t want the letter to sound demanding or selfish.

    Copied and pasted from my other post–how I feel:

    -I feel confused.
    -I know he loves me, but too vague.
    -I want to know where I stand.
    -I want to know if he will ever want be married [if -not there’s my answer]

    I miss him VERY much
    I am so, so grateful for all the years he stood by me
    I love him
    I love myself
    He is looking after his future
    I need to look out for mine
    (I would love to be looking out/planning for “our” future.)

    Any thoughts/ideas/suggestions of how I can put this into FMs?

    A few ‘don’t wants’ are:
    I don’t want to grow old as a live-in gf
    I don’t want to have to start all over by myself when you die.
    I don’t want to stay in this ‘limbo’ (ie: not having this relationship and not feeling ok about dating and moving on.)



  298.  #298FlowerChild77 on June 10, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    Ummm….how did my post get put into all italics? I didn’t type it that way….? 😮



  299.  #299Femininewoman on June 10, 2011 at 3:23 pm

    Mel RE 259 The beginning part about getting stuck in the past and that being where the disconnect started, is something I have read from Gay Hendricks. I believe they teach that you go into your body to check out the feelings there and use your intution by asking I wonder why or what happened. That they call the wonder tool I believe. Using it helped me to recall some childhood experiences around the feeling of rejection and sadness.

    Loneplum makes a lot of sense in that post to you. I have felt in your writing a lot of need to control what he decides around the counselling. I know it is not easy especially when living under the same roof but I believe that was sound advice and a good assessment that could help if you take it to heart and really let go of any need you have connected to him. Maybe when he can feel no need he will start to wonder. I would take Loneplum’s suggestion to heart even if only to experiment with it to see what will happen. Really find some things to occupy your mind and time that will distract you from “the relationship”. I would even encourage you to stop figuring out what he is saying.



  300.  #300Lily T. on June 10, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    It’s me, I forgot to turn italics off.

    TINQUE!!!!!!! HELP!



  301.  #301Femininewoman on June 10, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    Congrats flower. I would encourage you to try using it with everyone in your life so you can practing speaking up and standing up for yourself no matter what they think of you.



  302.  #302Lily T. on June 10, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    Flowerchild,

    What does the relationship you > look like? What does it feel like? Go deep into your feelings about this. Deep as you can go. Then start writing them out.

    In a letter I’d start with telling him how much you love him and how much you’ve appreciated the life you’ve had with him. Then express with feeling messages what you’d like for yourself. And him.

    Some Sirens here are fantastic at tweaking FM’s so do a rough draft of a few and post. We’ll try to help.



  303.  #303Femininewoman on June 10, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    RE 296 “I would love to be looking out/planning for “our” future.”)

    I would suggest trying to write “I wants” around this



  304.  #304Queenbee on June 10, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    I think I need Love Scripts.

    xoxo



  305.  #305Femininewoman on June 10, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    I have made up my mind to get them too.



  306.  #306Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    Here is one that uses personality types.

    http://personalitycafe.com/intro/index2.html



  307.  #307Ella on June 10, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    Hmmm, how do Sirens manage to put the whole blog into Italics sometimes.

    I feel intrigued and confused.



  308.  #308Lily T. on June 10, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    My fault Ella. I used the italic code in front of a paragraph and forgot to put the end code before I hit submit. Waiting for Tinque or Rori to notice and fix it. I can’t. 🙁



  309.  #309Ella on June 10, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    Just had Mr Step up over for the evening. He is the 23 yo.

    I still feel terrified around him.

    He always wants to kiss me and hold me and sometimes I just find it so overwhelming.

    And I find myself feeling REALLY ANGRY!

    Out of nowhere, and I feel confused as to why I feel angry and where that has come from.

    Today he asked me why I always pull away when we kiss.

    I didn’t know what to say.

    Because I don’t really know.

    I am really not sure if I fancy him… for one thing.

    And also I don’t want to have sex… not yet. I have expressed this.

    It feels too overwhelming atm… And too much fear about what if he lost interest as soon as that happened.

    I feel too fragile to deal with that atm.

    I don’t know I feel confused.

    I mean he takes me out and treats me well and is step up with calling me, leaning forward, paying me, kissing me, holding me etc…

    And yet he has never mentioned wanting a relationship and has never mentioned the future at all.

    Tbh I don’t really want to get intimate with anyone (I mean really intimate, Pubguy doesn’t count cus it is different) until I get with my husband…

    But does that mean I am closing myself off?

    When really we are supposed to be practicing being open to men.

    I just feel afraid that he is only after sex…

    And equally I am not ready to have a relationship.

    And he’s right I do pull away all the time, and break off the kissing etc.

    And he said it makes him feel like he is doing something wrong.



  310.  #310Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    294: Lily T.No Gravatar says:

    1. I don’t think kids are “owed” an inheritance. Up to parent if they want to leave one.

    2. Women, statistically, tend to outlive men. And not by “just a few years later”, sometimes DECADES later.

    3. “You still haven’t answered a question though. What if you built a life with a man that either dies or leaves you. You have kids. Then you meet a new man in your later years and marry. Do you think he should get your home? What would you want left for your kids?

    My answer: My kids are grown. If I pre-decease him, he wouldn’t be getting MY home, he’d be getting OUR home.

    4. If I was successful enough to leave something to my kids, I would do so. But not if it would result in hardship for my partner.

    This is what wills are for.

    I’ve lost interest in this conversation.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Like I said Lily T, I think it all depends on each couple’s set of circumstances. I mean if I married a woman now, I am expecting to live 3 or 4 decades with her. If I am 70, that would change some things. Also, the needs of my kids would come into to play. Are they very well off? Are they not doing so well. Did my son get taken to the cleaners in a recent divorce? Does the new woman have a home she is now renting since she is with me?

    I 100% agree with you though. I would probably sit down with a lawyer and draw up a really good will to make sure that I can take care of as many people as well as I can.

    I think if she came with nothing, I would have the will read that she is to be allowed to live in the house until she does and then it passes to my children.

    However, if it wasn’t totally paid for, then she is totally entitled to some of the value based on how much she contributed. This value would be paid to her heirs when she dies. House still stays in my family if at all possible.

    If neither of us had anything to start and we bought something together, then of course that is a completely different story. At this point, the lawyer would need to draw it up so that both sets of children get treated fairly.

    As to women living a lot longer than men by more than a few years? The trend is being reduced and I personally think the single biggest reason, which is being overlooked, is that the physical workplaces that men tended to dominate are far more healthy to work in these days. Much more is known about chemical hazards, etc…

    According to the latest census, women now only outlive men by an average of 4 years.

    http://jezebel.com/5806603/women-outliving-men-by-less

    I wonder how they get these statistics? Do they toss out the statistics from things like car accidents, etc…?

    I mean young men are far more likely to die from the “Hey ya’ll…watch this!” syndrome. 😉



  311.  #311Ella on June 10, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    I mean what am I supposed to say?

    I can’t handle kissing you bc I have intimacy issues and I can only deal with drunk gus who are emotionally unavailable?

    Yeah right!!

    Hmph.

    And I don’t want to come across as damaged goods and yet I feel afraid that I am since my ex… I sure feel delicate and full of baggage.

    I kinda want to send him away and say ‘look, you are 23, go and find someone nearer your own age and sleep with them. It will be a lot easier than trying to sleep with me!’

    I feel kinda cross.



  312.  #312Ella on June 10, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    I feel defensive and bristly.



  313.  #313Ella on June 10, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    I’m really not sure I find him attractive.

    But I am giving him a chance… And I so need it to go slow.

    And I mean SERIOUSLY SLOW.

    Like almost backward…

    Sometimes I can melt on him and when I have been able to relax a few times it has almost begun to feel quite good.

    But then I become aware again and go into tense mode again.

    And I still really feel like I don’t know him cus he doesn’t say much.

    How can I know if I like him when I don’t feel I like him.



  314.  #314Ella on June 10, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    Also he sent my a pic message of himself just out of the shower. This was after abpout date 3 I think… I didn’t get the pic at the time… but he showed it to me tonight.

    I said I would have felt freaked out if I recieved that after date 3.

    I mean isn’t that a bit weird? Does it mean he is after sex?

    I feel confused.

    And tonight after he left he sent me a text saying ‘I wish I was cuddled up with you in bed 🙂 x’

    Hmmm, this after I told him I am not ready to be sexual with anyone.

    I feel mistrustful and annoyed.

    But I am not sure what is ging on here.



  315.  #315Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    256: FlowerChild77 says:

    #251/Lily T.

    Since he paid the down payment and we’d only been together 2 years when he bought the house, I didn’t feel comfortable asking for my name to be on the paperwork. (And, like I said, bringing up the pension thing with his xgf as beneficiary turned into a horrible fight, so I never went down that road again.)

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    FlowerChild

    I do not agree with him treating you this way. I don’t see how he could list an XGF as a beneficiary. And I could not buy a home 2 years after I started dating someone, have her live with me for 12 years, and not consider her as somebody I would want to have on the paperwork. Mostly because I can’t see myself not marrying the woman long before that 12 years.

    This is totally different than the situation that I have discussed with Lily, unless he has kids and sold the family home to buy that new home. But you also said that you contributed to the mortgage so this is still different.

    I could not allow some woman to pay on my mortgage. Trying to put myself in his shoes, I would have told you to buy a condo, or inexpensive house, to rent out so that you also have something if we part way one way or another.

    The thing that boggles my mind the most though is that he, after living with you for 12 years, has an XGF as a beneficiary? I mean I could understand it if you told me that it was a daughter…but XGF? I can’t even relate to that.

    I am the type to speak my mind so I would tell him that you are moving on. When he asks why, I would tell him why. That this is really wrong. It IS understandable if he is leaving things to his offspring but an XGF? I would ask him how in the world he thinks that is even remotely right?

    Maybe he watches too many of those cop shows and docudramas like on TrueTV, where some guy was offed by his new wife so she could collect on his life insurance, etc… Been a lot of that stuff on TV lately. Might be scaring the bejeezus out of people like him.



  316.  #316Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    @254: FlowerChild77 says:
    “…Yeah, it’s bothering me. I think I may have to tell my aunt about it. It feels ‘wrong’ to talk bad about my mom–but that’s how she operated–with fear, obligation and guilt…”

    If you give a straightforward account you need not necessarily use words that “talk bad about” your mother. You, of course, have an emotional attachment and interpretation of the transactions but you are not responsible for how someone else disposes of things that belong to them. Could you put your feelings of embarassment aside and say what happened in plain words?

    For instance, depending on your own situation….

    “Mother left the house and all its contents to her brother John and the vacation house when to my brother and his wife Veronica. Any other assets went to her sister Mary. I didn’t receive anything from the estate.” [ Just the facts, ma’am. ] 😀

    Decisions were made but you were not the one that made them. Perhaps after you’ve described the events this way, you might even feel differently about them.

    “How do you do this FM thing when the guy just doesn’t work that way?…”

    One sentence at a time. You decide which words you will use. I don’t struggle with twisting the words in a message in order to put the word “feel” into it. You decide what’s most important and express that first, let him process, then maybe the next thing.

    I don’t believe I can force a man to love me or marry me if doesn’t want too. I wish to support you and I can say I do understand exactly how you feel and understand your concerns too.

    My way of thinking is when a man has been in a relationship for many years, if he wanted to marry he’d be married or if not married he’d be waiting on a reluctant partner. And I don’t believe that a man who is ready for marriage will wait forever either; he’ll find someone else.

    I’ve seen several times women “try to get a man to marry” while he drags his heels and doesn’t. After they break up, he marries someone else.

    I’m wondering to myself, what if you met someone else, who was very different, who was more careful about your feelings, who wanted to make a safe place for you…and you fell in love? It could happen. It could happen soon. In three years you might look back with a smile and be thankful for being in a different place.

    xoxo
    SLV



  317.  #317Ella on June 10, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    I feel like I want to say that I want to save myself sexually for my husband! Lol.



  318.  #318Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    Italics again.

    Okay, everybody. This time I swear IT WAS NOT ME! 😯

    Calling tinque!!!

    xoxo
    SLV



  319.  #319Tmizz on June 10, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    Hellooooooo, Ladies! (and Gents:)

    It has been so long since I have graced (if that’s the word) these pages. I know. I had so many responses for some of your lovely comments, and then I just got drawn into lots of other things. Including some evening classes, more work, and, well, dating, I guess!

    But that’s good, right?

    Now I’m here, and, as usual, the discussion is very apropos of what I’ve recently been going through. I’m referring to the discussion on attraction up near the top, and Rusty’s link to that study on scent is very interesting. They didn’t get into pheromones at all, but I know that there is more in someone’s “scent” that we can’t actually smell, and that influences our feelings and emotions about someone, too. But that’s a side topic….

    This is all relevant because I recently met a man while out dancing. I was really hoping he would come up and dance with me, and it took him a while, but he did. There was a lot of nice body contact, and I was just letting myself feel and enjoy and be in the moment. It was great. But I noticed something I couldn’t ignore: his smell. I mean, there is just a usual sweat smell sometimes, which is understandable on a hot, sweaty dance floor, and not necessarily a turn-off. But this was a very pungent odor that I did not like. However, he was good-looking, and I was thinking, “How can I judge someone for how they smell?” I know that, in some ways, a person’s “smell” is just their scent-marker. So it stands to reason that, if you really like or love someone, you can get to like their “scent-marker” even if it doesn’t appeal to you at first. But in the back of my mind, there was always that little voice saying, “The nose knows…” And it wasn’t just that. He kissed me once on the dance floor. And it was kind of sweet. But it wasn’t the greatest of kisses. I still gave him my phone number and decided to give him a chance. He texted me that evening to say “good night and sweet dreams.”

    So it was all really nice, actually. He took me out three times in one week, and after that, started talking about how things were “going really well,” and let me know that he wasn’t going to feel comfortable about me seeing other people (i.e. he wanted exclusivity).

    *BUT*….by that point I had already set up a date for the coming week with a guy who had contacted me online before I met the Dancing Guy. So even though I told Dancing Guy that I felt good about being in a relationship with him, I still wanted to meet this other guy and just see what he was like. So I meet him – no photo beforehand or anything – and he was very cute. We had good talk. Nothing too stimulating, just good. But he was a *really* good hugger. And he didn’t try to kiss me. But over the weekend, I saw him again, and, MAN. What a good kisser. Seriously, probably the best kissing ever. Like soft, yet firm. Soooo yummy. And he felt so good to me. And he SMELLED good. Not only his cologne or whatever, but just the scent of his skin. Kind of sweet and almost baby-like, but with a hint of like something fresh and woody, but smooth and soft at the same time.

    Meanwhile, before this second date happened, I had already gone to bed with dancing man. And it was about as non-inspiring as his kiss had been. Actually, worse than that. And meanwhile, there was that smell. It felt good to have him hold me and touch me, but the kissing and the sex were both more than blasé – they were actively unpleasant. But I was having real feelings for him! How is this possible? I still don’t know.

    So, before my 3rd date with the Good Kisser, I told the other guy I couldn’t see him anymore. He talked about working on the sex, but I don’t know how you can “work on” the way your body feels and tastes to another person. That doesn’t happen. And I know I was taking a chance, but I really felt like I want to go toward what feels good to me. To accept what feels good to me.

    Only now I feel anxious. Because, on the third date, we had to have “the sex talk.” And we decided to wait. But things did get kind of hot and heavy for a while there. I’m not sure if I wanted it to go that far or not, and of course, I’m always worried about people judging me negatively about my body. I guess that just shows that I still have some negative body image to deal with. And it’s true. I don’t necessarily believe that I am beautiful. So when I find myself with a beautiful person who is clearly attracted to and turned on by me, I get a little bit confused. I keep waiting for the curtain to rise, and the person to say, “oops, just kidding, you’re really ugly and unattractive!” And then that would somehow make sense to me.

    But the fact is, when he left my house, he was smiling and happy-looking, and said, “Okay, see you next week!” Except now I haven’t heard from him. I don’t know what “next week” means. And I don’t want to write to him or text him to find out. Or rather, I do, but I don’t want to have to be so “pro-active” and “boy energy” when I’m trying to be the “girl.” I’m afraid I’ve scared him off, but I probably haven’t.

    Just breathe, little T. Don’t give in to the fears….

    I have other people I can CD with. I have a lot planned for this weekend.

    What do you guys think about any of this? Does it strike you in a particular way? I feel so uncomfortable just “waiting” for this Good Kisser guy to just write to me or something. But I’m really trying to trust and not try to ‘control’ it too much.

    Hm, it actually feels good to not control it. I like that. I’m worrying too much about what he thinks. Now it’s time to focus on how I feel…Ok, Little T. Just remember: this beautiful man really likes you and is totally into you. He’s probably afraid. He wants to write to you. he wants to see you again as soon as possible. Why? Because you rock! You are an awesome Diva Rockstar, and *anyone* in their right mind would want to see you, and don’t you forget it!

    (thanks for letting me get this all out! 🙂 )



  320.  #320Tmizz on June 10, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    BTW, Tinque – I love that you wrote:

    “NO ONE is by nature anything but love.”

    I want to tape this to my ceiling so I can look at it every morning when I wake up!!



  321.  #321FlowerChild77 on June 10, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    Ella, I don’t know him or anything—but if he’s 23y/o there’s a very good chance that having sex is on his mind QUITE a bit! He finds you attractive. He kisses you…he probably wants more.

    If he has not talked of the future–have you told him what you want and what you’re looking for?

    In my situation there was always talk of our future–but that was assuming that I just believed everything would be ok (and we are older, so it’s different for you right now.)

    I’m just saying that if he doesn’t know your boundaries (like you don’t want to get ‘cozy’ with him unless there’s a “future” for the two of you) then, I think kissing him and such sends a mixed signal.

    And, again, he’s 23…sex on the brain, for sure.

    What do you think?



  322.  #322Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    Ella,

    Just had Mr Step up over for the evening. He is the 23 yo.

    I still feel terrified around him.

    He always wants to kiss me and hold me and sometimes I just find it so overwhelming.

    And I find myself feeling REALLY ANGRY!

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I hope you don’t mind me popping in but I wanted to say something here. I am a very physically affectionate person and I think back about when I dated girls and I can tell you that I very much wanted to by physically intimate almost right away but I also had no problem respecting a girl’s boundaries regarding sex. My experience was that most were very much OK with being very physically intimate so long as they could trust that I was OK with it not leading to sex at the time. Actually had some GF’s want me to spend the night with no sex once they knew they could trust me.

    Can you identify if most of your problem is just fear of sex happening too fast and this makes you fear even letting the slightest bit of intimacy happen, such as cuddling, because you are afraid it will lead to sex…sex you will regret?

    If this is true, and I were him, I would totally appreciate you being honest about that and allowing me a chance to prove that I can go with just kissing, cuddling, etc..

    Also, is it possible that your not being sure you are attracted, is because of some sort of self defense mechanism that makes you fear getting intimate with someone?

    One thing seems clear. he seems to be very into you, and wants intimacy…so the only question is, will he respect your boundaries. Hard for me to say. He is young. I have no clue how old you are. I do always warn women, when a much younger guy is chasing after them, it may be for real but be very careful because the simple truth is that most young men that age are totally into having an affair with an older woman, as in 7 or 8 years+ older, but they are rarely interested in marrying them…ever. Most young guys fantasize about having their Mrs Robinson moment, but then want to marry a girl more their age.



  323.  #323Tmizz on June 10, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    Also, LillyBelle, re: the 10 Commandments for women

    I have to say I disagree with #10 – “Thou shalt not act like a princess.”

    I think it’s great to act like a Princess! Not as in, a “princess” in an annoying way. As in, you act like royalty because inside, you *know* that you are worthy and deserving of being treated well, because you just have that inner confidence. So rather than “expecting” everyone to do everything for you. You just have a lot of poise and composure and a sense of dignity so that you are not *surprised* when people treat you well – because they should!

    So in my list, I am amending that to: “Thou SHALT act like a Princess 100% – because you are one!”

    🙂



  324.  #324Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    320: FlowerChild77

    Agree with your advice to Ella. I agree that sex is on his mind. Question is, will he respect her boundaries if she makes them perfectly clear to him. Problem is, will Ella spell out exactly what she wants? Many of us men do need to be hit over the head with a 2×4. We often fail at interpreting the subtle messages that women try to send. And like you said, he may be getting mixed signals.

    Remember that video I posted above, or on the last thread? It said that men are totally inept at reading a woman’s interest and in fact are biologically programmed to overestimate their chances. To young men, subtle messages saying “No” mean Maybe, and subtle messages saying “Maybe” mean Yes.



  325.  #325Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    @290: Lilybelle says:
    241:

    “Yay for Soulmate rings! I looked today when I was at the store and couldn’t find the machines.
    I’ll keep searching.”

    Both supermarkets where I get them have the trinket machines opposite the cashiers so you see them on the way out. Not all chains have them. Maybe try out some new supermarkets. Hey, you might meet a CD shopping at a new place… 😆

    xoxo
    SLV



  326.  #326FlowerChild77 on June 10, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    Tmizz, I always learned that how a guy smells to us has a lot to do with our “man picker.” I cannot picture myself kissing and/or sleeping with a man whose ‘scent’ I didn’t like. In fact, that is more important to me than looks.

    I’m not the best Siren to be giving advice—clearly! But the smell thing is surely something to pay attention to. (As you said, the whole experience was ‘bad’–kissing and the sex.)

    >>>”I don’t necessarily believe that I am beautiful. So when I find myself with a beautiful person who is clearly attracted to and turned on by me, I get a little bit confused. I keep waiting for the curtain to rise, and the person to say, “oops, just kidding, you’re really ugly and unattractive!””<<<

    This goes through my mind often. I know xbf is attracted to me because of the many years and how well we know each other. But when I think of a new guy–I feel unsure. While, to me being 'beautiful' is way different than being 'attractive' (just as handsome is way different than being attractive) I still feel some insecurity around it. I understand your fears and NV's talking to you. (They talk to me, too!)

    I'm pretty sure that, "the nose knows." 🙂



  327.  #327Ella on June 10, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    Hey Rusty

    “Can you identify if most of your problem is just fear of sex happening too fast and this makes you fear even letting the slightest bit of intimacy happen, such as cuddling, because you are afraid it will lead to sex…sex you will regret?”

    Yes I can see this… definitely.

    “Also, is it possible that your not being sure you are attracted, is because of some sort of self defense mechanism that makes you fear getting intimate with someone?”

    Yes again… that is why I am trying to stay open and practice with this guy.

    I am 7 years older than him. He is 23 I am 30.

    I never used to date younger guys and it is only since practicing Rori tools that I have been open to younger guys too.

    I may express something to him about being ok with kissing and cuddling as long as I can trust it will not be progressed to sex cus I don’t want that.



  328.  #328T-Girl on June 10, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    I think I’m in love. How do you guys know for sure?



  329.  #329Ella on June 10, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    I would gladly say to any man that I am looking for a husband and not a quick shack up in the bedroom.

    But, being a Siren this kind of thing is not normally a conversation for me to bring up…

    I have used the No g,friend speech many times but that is not necessary here as he has not asked me to be his g,friend.

    Maybe I need a ‘No sex’ speech, lol.

    Yes, maybe next time it comes up I will say something like ‘I don’t want casual hooks ups or sex with guys, I am waiting for a life partner’.

    Or something….

    Hmmm, no quite sure how to put it… and feel a lil afraid he will just leave then…

    But that is ok… better to get the truth out there.

    I will be ok.

    I have not ever misled him, its just never come up (the whole relationship issue).

    He has just been such a good step up CD, and has been there when all my other CDs have flaked of left me feeling disappointed.

    And he comforted me the other day when we heard that my brother in law had died… he was here for me.

    I feel afraid to feel deflated if he flakes too cus of me stating this boundary.

    And that would leave me with precisly ‘0’ CDs… cus of me saying NO to stuff I don’t want.

    And equally I have no idea if I would even want a relationship with him anyway!

    But its nice having him around.



  330.  #330Dorothea on June 10, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    Interesting post.

    Well, I’M depressed. Like really, really, to the point of suicidal thoughts. Today, I spent my lunch hour under a bridge crying. It was the only place I could find downtown where I would be totally alone and have privacy to let it all out.

    I am going to get some professional help, but I do not want to be put on medication. I value “new age” stuff like EFT, mantras, nutrition, lifestyle changes… I don’t want to be put on medication. I’m not sure how to find a professional to work with in my area that is on the same page as I am.

    But if the suicidal thoughts persist I might NEED to get on medication. Except…that is a common side effect of these medications, isn’t it? Suicidal thoughts? Lol, f*ck big pharma.



  331.  #331Ella on June 10, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    I do not esp like Step up Man’s smell, although it gets a little better with time.



  332.  #332Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    @264: LonePlum

    Thanks for the birthday greetings; I’m a June baby. There seem to be a lot of us. I’ll celebrate mine a bit each day into July and then start again in August and once each month all year….

    I know, I know it’s a bit much but I’m old I get extra birthdays….. 😆

    In which month is yours?

    xoxo
    SLV



  333.  #333Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    @330: Ella says:
    “I do not esp like Step up Man’s smell, although it gets a little better with time.”

    Is he a smoker? Or do you mean he should bathe more often? Use deodorant?

    xoxo
    SLV



  334.  #334Ella on June 10, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    Dorothea,

    I do not know that much about severe depression however I am sure that there are therapists who lean towards the holistic therapies over just prescribing medication…

    As you say it is just a question of finding them.

    I wonder if there is some kind of holistic therapist register or something.

    Having said that I have heard that in some cases medication can be totally the way to go, esp short term.

    Maybe some of the other Sirens will have some helpful advice.

    Hugs Dorothea.

    xoxoxox



  335.  #335Ella on June 10, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    SLV

    Lol, no!

    I just mean that I am not esp turned on by his natural small… He is clean and doesn’t smell bad…

    But it is not like with pub guy, who must have the right (or maybe the wrong/toxic) pheramones for me… cus I could happily sniff him all day!

    xoxoxo



  336.  #336Femininewoman on June 10, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    RE 329 Dorothea I feel sad reading that. Please take care of yourself. Try talking positively to yourself sometimes. It has helped me. Sorry to hear you are feeling depressed.



  337.  #337Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    Great posts Ella.

    I think you can even use this to see if the guy is worth even keeping around. Being blunt is a plus in these situations. Remember, we guys tend to process things differently. However, you add in a little bit of kindness by telling him that you really really like him and want to be physically affectionate but in no way shape or form do you want it to progress to sex, or anything like sex.

    If he respects those boundaries, and yet is till very much into you, then he may be a keeper.

    The trick here is for you to be able to express your needs to him without sounding like you aren’t interested in him. At the same time, you don’t want him feeling like he has to walk on egg shells.

    My advice is to spell it all out. Let him know in detail what you are comfortable doing and what is crossing the line.

    If he seems to be respecting those boundaries, but starts crossing one just a little bit, you can be very kind in letting him know that is just a bit too far. In fact, acting a bit playful is good. The thing you need to know is that you are the one in control and you can end things when they get to where you don’t want them to go. This does not require a fight at all, nor angry/cross reactions from you. It works best if you are sweet about the rejection. It doesn’t wound his pride. You need to know that to an extent, he expects the rejection, but if it is kind, sweet, playful, etc…he remains in tune with you and very attracted.

    If he becomes angry, etc… then I would tell you that this is a serious red flag that he wants sex and that’s about all.

    So maybe have your talk with him someplace that is only semi-private. Like in a park on a bench out of earshot of other people. See how he reacts.

    So to sum it up.

    1. Be very frank and detailed about what you want and don’t want.
    2. Be very kind and sweet about it.
    3. Make sure he knows you are attracted to him/like him a lot. This keeps his pride from interpreting this as rejection.
    4. In so far as it works, be kind, sweet, even playful (preferred) in your rejection of any advances on his part, to cross the boundaries.
    5. If he won’t respect your boundaries or pushes way to hard to cross the boundaries. If you feel you have to be on guard, he is not respecting the boundaries at all. Expect some testing, but out right assaults on the boundaries are IMHO a clear indication he is there for the sex only, or just doesn’t have the discipline to even try to respect your boundaries. Run.



  338.  #338GardenGirl on June 10, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    Dorothea,

    I’ve been depressed. In a very bad place. I didn’t want to go on meds either…

    Some of what helped me:
    Cut out dairy
    Cut out gluten
    Very healthy diet (veggies, non-gluten grains, certain fruits, fish, and dark chocolate)
    Only green or black tea (basically no alcohol)

    Yoga every morning (45 min on my own)
    Yoga/meditation every pm (15 min relaxing)
    Strength building exercises (push-ups,etc)
    Lots of time for me
    Baths (relaxing, bath salts, candles)
    cut out all friends who didn’t feel good
    Changed my work
    Really got deep into my childhood trauma issues and worked them out. (this was important)

    You can find someone who won’t ask you to take meds and who will respect your wishes. Plenty of therapists/psychologists Although meds will likely make you feel better and you can get off anytime. So maybe keep that in mind. I have several friends who went on meds and found it really helped.



  339.  #339Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 5:14 pm

    @291: Queenbee says:

    “…At least I know what I want. I feel scared to write the ‘M-nnaire’ word on here
    Also feeling scared and judgement of bringing on the worst to myself….”

    You won’t get any problem from me. I think that women who know what they want and make a way to achieve that are cool.

    Ginie Polo Sayles has been around for years and I admire her spunk too! So fun with her Texas oilman. I just checked her site and found that she’s a Gemini (June 13)! I should have KNOWN!

    How to Marry Rich…
    http://www.giniesayles.com/

    xoxo
    SLV



  340.  #340Ella on June 10, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    Rusty,

    Thank you so much.

    That all sounds like really good advice and is pretty much what I wanted to say anyway.

    Only thing is when he sent me the text saying he wishes he was cuddled up in bed with me, I sent him a response, quite a bit later saying that I feel bristly and defensive…

    Cus I did.

    I can see this may sound a bit harsh… but it is true as we had just had a conversation about me not feeling ready to be sexual with someone.

    I just felt a bit unheard.

    But maybe you are right he is a guy and needs is spelt out…

    I could do this in a gentler way face to face…

    Hope my text has not done any harm but I have to be honest about how I am feeling.

    Well its out there now.

    He can do with it as he wishes but I feel a bit mean now.



  341.  #341Lilybelle on June 10, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    324:

    I will set an intention to be more open and clued in to my surroundings. I tend to stay within myself when out and about on errands or out with friends…I stay tuned into them. Apparently, I miss a lot of “stuff”. 😉

    When I am doing errands, I am always in my head at the next errand or next thing on the list, rather than being right in the moment.

    That’s why the shopping trip I took a couple of weeks ago was such a big deal to me. It was so fun.



  342.  #342GardenGirl on June 10, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    Also dancing for depression! I took tango lessons. This felt great for me. Positive attention from men. Physical touch and affection from dance partners. Great exercise. Also it was a new hobby to get my mind off things… pure escape…



  343.  #343Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    328: Ella says:

    I have not ever misled him, its just never come up (the whole relationship issue).

    He has just been such a good step up CD, and has been there when all my other CDs have flaked of left me feeling disappointed.

    And he comforted me the other day when we heard that my brother in law had died… he was here for me.

    I feel afraid to feel deflated if he flakes too cus of me stating this boundary.

    And that would leave me with precisly ’0′ CDs… cus of me saying NO to stuff I don’t want.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Again, Ella, the key here is to let him know your boundaries but also make him feel that he is special to you. Men do need to think that a woman sees them as special…maybe even more than women need that. I am not so sure men do any better or even as well with rejection as women, when it is total rejection.

    We do expect some rejection in the sexual arena. Biology programmed us to have a thick skin in that area, to an extent. We are usually very OK with “Not yet.” We don’t deal well with, “Not likely to ever happen.”

    So if you are affectionate, and make him feel special, he isn’t likely to go anywhere. I have the feeling most of your CD’s wouldn’t have gone anywhere except that you needed a little advice in how to coney your needs without making them feel totally rejected.

    The key is to act relaxed, like this is perfectly natural, and you aren’t all mental over this. You simply have respect for yourself, and your future man in that he isn’t going to have to deal with the fact that hundreds of guys have been there before he has.

    So for this reason, you simply don’t engage in casual sex. You are into being physically intimate though. And lay out exactly what you mean by that. Stuff like kissing, cuddling, holding hands when you go places, etc…

    Let a guy know that you need to feel safe with a man before you can enjoy sex with him and that safe feeling isn’t something that can be rushed.

    Men do love this kind of honesty, but sometimes women have trouble conveying these things without it sounding like total rejection.



  344.  #344Lilybelle on June 10, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    327:

    Oh T-Girl…This is exciting. I don’t know how I know, I think for me, it is a slow burn until one day, I wake up and it hits me along side the melon… Eyes pop open wide, it hits me and then I shake in my boots. Like, holy hell, now what do I do. LOL!!!

    I look forward to that feeling again!!!

    Congrats, girl!



  345.  #345Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    @313: Ella says:
    “…But I am not sure what is ging on here…”

    He’s a young, healthy male who’s attracted to you and he wants sex.

    xoxo
    SLV



  346.  #346tinque on June 10, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    I haven’t had power for the last few hours. Sorry. Let me see what I can do.

    xxoo



  347.  #347Femininewoman on June 10, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    T-Girl I just know. It feels like home. I have to do nothing to impress him or feel uncomfortable around him. I can just be myself and I just know deep down.



  348.  #348Femininewoman on June 10, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    RE 344 which is normal.



  349.  #349Femininewoman on June 10, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    Tinque I am only seeing one third of yur head. lol



  350.  #350Lilybelle on June 10, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    345:

    Are you two okay? Storms?



  351.  #351Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    @334: Ella says:
    “…I just mean that I am not esp turned on by his natural small…”

    Oh. LOL 😆

    xoxo
    XLV



  352.  #352FlowerChild77 on June 10, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    (((Dorothea))) Do you feel suicidal like you want to “do something” (have a plan, etc.) OR do you hurt so much inside that you just don’t want to be here anymore?

    They’re both bad places to be—but there’s a difference. I remember feeling like I just wanted to go to go to sleep and not wake up. That was as far as my mind took it.

    I really understand not wanting to use anti-depressants, but sometimes it’s the better of two evils. I’ve been there–never really had a plan or intention of committing suicide—but I needed the medicine to help me get away from my abusive/violent husband.

    I’m kind of in a ‘funk’ now also–but it’s different. I feel like if I don’t let myself FEEL my feelings and work through them, they’ll never really go away. The anti-depressants made me feel ‘better’ but they also numbed my emotions…and I think that’s exactly the opposite of what Rori teaches us.

    Sometimes we need the darn pills to ‘get through’ to the next part….don’t feel bad if you need to take them for awhile. <3

    Keep us posted…and don't be too hard on yourself. If you look online I bet you can find a coach or a therapist to help you within the parameters you outline.



  353.  #353Ella on June 10, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    Rusty,

    Yeah I hear ya…

    Pretty much,

    This sentence does trigger me

    “So if you are affectionate, and make him feel special, he isn’t likely to go anywhere. I have the feeling most of your CD’s wouldn’t have gone anywhere except that you needed a little advice in how to coney your needs without making them feel totally rejected.”

    I feel defensive…

    I feel defensive of my perception that the implication is it is my fault my CDs are not still around.

    My other CDs have simply not been the right men for me at this time… they have showed up… taught me what I needed to learn and helped me heal, and then when this is done they have flowed back out.

    Or there has been something about them I have not wanted in my life, so I have said no, or they have made me feel bad. … or I have expressed, and they have left.

    This has felt difficult to me, and yet I do not accept it as my fault, or as something I am doing (although I feel fear when I think of this and NVs popping up).

    I choose to believe they have merely realised they are not able to step up for me in the way I need. And so have taken care of me by leaving.

    And this is fine. I feel grateful for this, even though my ego has felt dented and I have felt deflated sometimes.

    Having said this I am always open to learning how to communicate better, esp with men around difficult topics, and so I feel appreciative of your help and male perspecive Rusty.



  354.  #354tinque on June 10, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    Dorothea – big hugs. If you want to explore a natural route, mothers wort is lovely, subtle though gentle, st’ john;s wort more powerful but takes two weeks or so to kick in.

    xxoo



  355.  #355Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    339: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Rusty,

    Thank you so much.

    That all sounds like really good advice and is pretty much what I wanted to say anyway.

    Only thing is when he sent me the text saying he wishes he was cuddled up in bed with me, I sent him a response, quite a bit later saying that I feel bristly and defensive…

    Cus I did.

    I can see this may sound a bit harsh… but it is true as we had just had a conversation about me not feeling ready to be sexual with someone.

    I just felt a bit unheard.

    But maybe you are right he is a guy and needs is spelt out…

    I could do this in a gentler way face to face…

    Hope my text has not done any harm but I have to be honest about how I am feeling.

    Well its out there now.

    He can do with it as he wishes but I feel a bit mean now.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    yeah that can feel a bit like rejection to the guy. I think most guys expect at least temporary rejection from a good woman, but we also expect them to expect us to try. See what I mean.

    So believe it or not, you can say things gently and still be heard, you just have to sit down with him and be very honest. This is a sign of strength to a man. Be honest, but kind.

    If you want him to stick around, he must be special to you. Make sure he knows that.

    but also TEACH him what it is to be a woman, how you must feel safe with a man to have sex with him and actually enjoy it. Ask him if he wants you to enjoy sex with him. I doubt he will say no. When he says yes, then tell him that if he cares about you, he will go very slow…very very slow. But then reassure him that physical affection is still a good thing and that because you need things to go very slow does not mean the relationship has to be very cold. It can be very very hot, and in fact, the more he respects your boundaries, the more heat will be felt through things like kissing and cuddling.

    Don’t be afraid of this leading to him leaving. By learning to do this, and do it right, your will find guys that are more than willing to have a blazing hot relationship that does not involve sex right away.

    You will find the guy that is right for you. Hard to find the right guy for the job when you aren’t honest about what the job entails.

    I would not be afraid to “bump into” old flames either. Be very friendly, smile very big when you see them and act like you are very glad to see them. This is strong Mojo for a man to deal with. We want to see a woman’s face light up when she sees us.

    This would allow you to talk about why things went the way they did. This is if you feel you just didn’t handle ti the right way before. There is nothing at all wrong with telling a guy, “Look, I really really liked you and I really did want physical affection with you, like a lot of kissing, cuddling, etc…, but I just need to feel safe with a man before can enjoy sex with him. Any man I marry is not going to have to worry about me hopping into bed with some guy on a quick hookup because that is just not me.

    Let them know that you always just had the fear that any affection would lead to sex and you just weren’t ready for that. What will let you learn to feel safe with a guy is him respecting your boundaries. How long that takes, you don’t know…you just have to go with what you feel and let that happen when it will.

    Let them know that this is the reason you had a hard time just letting kissing and cuddling, etc.. happening. You need to know that the guy will respect the boundaries you set. You weren’t very good at dealing with that and the easier thing to do was just avoid any affection that might lead to sex.

    A good guy will understand this and in fact, this may very well bring out the chivalrous knight in him that I have mentioned in the past.

    Coax it out. “I need a strong man that can honor and protect my feelings.”



  356.  #356tinque on June 10, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    Femininewoman – Really? I see all of me here, and I don’t mean because I’m right here with me.

    xxoo



  357.  #357Lilybelle on June 10, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    352:

    Ella~ One thing I admire about you, is how very well you know yourself.

    You are so right on. Continue to trust yourself.

    Much Love, Sister Siren.



  358.  #358Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    @347: Femininewoman says:
    “..RE 344 which is normal…”

    Yes, of course.

    …unless the sex he wants is not normal but that doesn’t seem to be the case here. Just man-woman as usual… no shibari… 😆
    😀

    xoxo
    SLV



  359.  #359Ella on June 10, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    SLV re 344,

    Lol… Love it when you simplify stuff for me.

    Its like you take all the swirly mess in my head and pick out the simple truth.

    🙂

    xoxox

    Guess what I want to know is whether he wants anything else EXCEPT sex… and the only way I will know that is to not have sex with him…

    Although I could just have sex with him.

    Cus I have been saying recently that I want to have sex. This could be the solution… and could be fairly uncomplicated.

    Hmmm.



  360.  #360tinque on June 10, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    Lilybelly – We had a fabulous storm last night, big wind, awesome thunder and lightening, rain, which lasted for maybe a half hour, and we lost power for two minutes. But this afternoon after a full day of sunshine, out of nowhere the power went out. Apparently there were outages all over all day.

    I was sitting here waiting for K to come home thinking, what are we going to do all evening/night. We already had sex this morning. It fascinates me how dependent we are on electricity.

    xxoo



  361.  #361Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    52: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    Rusty,

    Yeah I hear ya…

    Pretty much,

    This sentence does trigger me

    “So if you are affectionate, and make him feel special, he isn’t likely to go anywhere. I have the feeling most of your CD’s wouldn’t have gone anywhere except that you needed a little advice in how to coney your needs without making them feel totally rejected.”

    I feel defensive…

    I feel defensive of my perception that the implication is it is my fault my CDs are not still around.

    My other CDs have simply not been the right men for me at this time… they have showed up… taught me what I needed to learn and helped me heal, and then when this is done they have flowed back out.

    Or there has been something about them I have not wanted in my life, so I have said no, or they have made me feel bad. … or I have expressed, and they have left.

    This has felt difficult to me, and yet I do not accept it as my fault, or as something I am doing (although I feel fear when I think of this and NVs popping up).

    I choose to believe they have merely realised they are not able to step up for me in the way I need. And so have taken care of me by leaving.

    And this is fine. I feel grateful for this, even though my ego has felt dented and I have felt deflated sometimes.

    Having said this I am always open to learning how to communicate better, esp with men around difficult topics, and so I feel appreciative of your help and male perspecive Rusty.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Sorry, that was my misunderstanding. I misunderstood and thought you meant that guys were just flaking out when you basically rejected any physical affection.

    Men do expect to be rejected sexually but do not expect to be rejected of all physical affection. I would dare say that most men expect that a woman who is into them will be very affectionate, even if they are not being sexual.

    Also, that word in my post that your post responded to, the word CONEY was supposed to be CONVEY.

    LOL



  362.  #362tinque on June 10, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    Okay sexpert here doesn’t know what shibari is. Please enlighten me SLV.

    xxoo



  363.  #363Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    @358: Ella

    This is kind of a new relationship, right? You could do some light “making out” once you have understanding of your boundaries. See how it goes.

    xoxo
    SLV



  364.  #364Rusty on June 10, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    358: EllaNo Gravatar says:

    SLV re 344,

    Lol… Love it when you simplify stuff for me.

    Its like you take all the swirly mess in my head and pick out the simple truth.

    🙂

    xoxox

    Guess what I want to know is whether he wants anything else EXCEPT sex… and the only way I will know that is to not have sex with him…

    Although I could just have sex with him.

    Cus I have been saying recently that I want to have sex. This could be the solution… and could be fairly uncomplicated.

    Hmmm.

    Well this makes it easy for you then.

    Have that talk I said to have. Then see how he feels about it. See if he wants to go with it and just kiss and cuddle. If so you may very well have a keeper, at least for a while.

    You can then accelerate your decision to have sex with him. It will totally thrill him if you simply allow him over a short period of time to “wear you down.” Like just not stopping all of his advances across the boundaries. Eventually giving that access so to speak.

    If he doesn’t, you could always just the heck with it, have your fun, then kick him to the curb.



  365.  #365Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    @361: tinque

    Japanese rope bondage.

    xoxo
    SLV



  366.  #366Rori Raye on June 10, 2011 at 5:52 pm

    Hi – so sorry this blog doesn’t make it easy to use italics, bold, all that – I’ll look into when I come back on July 1 – for the time being – if it all goes italics or bold – I won’t be able to help – I’m the only one who can get into the blog to edit – (well…I might be near a computer in the UK, and Tinque will let me know…) – So – I’ll make you a deal – I’ll share with you all how to use the HTML code properly when I get back in exchange for no use of it while I’m gone…is that a good bargain? To tempt you – I italicized here – and I’ll give you some other code tricks, too, so you can play around more….! (If you’re copying and pasting something that looks right on the screen you copy it from – it should be okay…) Love, Rori



  367.  #367Ella on June 10, 2011 at 5:52 pm

    Rusty

    Yes there is definitely something for me to practice here around learning to talk to a man about my boundaries (and including around sex) in a way that is kind and firm and does not seem like total rejection.

    Yes I would like to express to him that I need to feel safe that if I say NO that will be respected, no questions asked. This is what helps me to feel safe and then things feel freer to me and can heat up.

    And I am not looking for a casual hook up.

    And there are also other issues here, around real intimacy… ie being with someone in this way, and totally sober can feel overwhelming to me.

    And IF I have sex with someone I can begin to feel emotionally bonded, and that makes me feel vulnerable.

    I would feel much safer to take sex right out the equasion for now… however (like you said Rusty) this does not mean the relationship has to be cold, in fact it can be HOT, smoking hot, and esp if I feel safe!

    Love ya Rusty and your words…

    Yes I am gonna steal some of them for a practice speech.

    🙂



  368.  #368Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    @359: tinque says:
    “…what are we going to do all evening/night. We already had sex this morning…”

    ROFL 😆

    xoxo
    SLV



  369.  #369Lilybelle on June 10, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    359:

    LOL!!!! I’m living vicariously through you at the moment, my friend.

    🙂



  370.  #370Ella on June 10, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    Guys re 358…

    Just experimenting. With being Rockstar.

    I do want to be able to have sex and not have to wait for my husband before I can do it.

    And this presents a dilemma for me cus I have always needed to feel like this thing was headed for ‘relationship or marriage’ in the past before I would have sex with a guy.

    As I am choosing not to have boyfriends atm and instead am holding out for a husband, the liklihood is most men I will encounter will not be the one who is going to be my husband, and I still want to be able to have sex…

    So I need someone I feel safe with, even if he is not gonna be husband, and maybe then I can have sex… if I want to.

    Either way I obviously need to express about what I need to make me feel safe.

    Ok, good lessons tonight.

    xoxoxo



  371.  #371Ella on June 10, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    Rusty,

    I feel curious,

    Why do you write ‘Ella NoGravatar’?



  372.  #372LobbyStar on June 10, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    Ok, so I was feeling impatient earlier and thought about “nudging” things to get them going with one of my crushes. Don’t worry! I didn’t do it!

    I decided to CD some random guys instead. I joined a dating site and put up a profile. Within 5 minutes, I had 4 messages from guys. So now…

    I feel overwhelmed.

    Deep breaths.

    I can do this.



  373.  #373Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    365: Rori Raye says:
    “…I’ll make you a deal – I’ll share with you all how to use the HTML code properly when I get back in exchange for no use of it while I’m gone…”

    That would be great. But the problem is typos leaving the attribute still on. There is no a way to edit after we hit the “submit” button. If there is a work around that, it would be fabulous. I hang my head…even though I can code, I’m prone to typos. 😳 but it wasn’t me this time. Yay! I’m not using italics.

    xoxo
    SLV



  374.  #374Senior Lady Vibe on June 10, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    I’m having an problem with procrastination.



  375.  #375LobbyStar on June 10, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    373: SLV, I was going to answer you, but I think I’ll put it off until later! 😉



  376.  #376Ella on June 10, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    Speeches for talking to Mr Step up about sex.

    ‘I feel attracted to you, and it feels good spending time with you

    Pause

    And actually I don’t want casual hook ups and sex

    Pause

    I am older than you and I want to be married’

    Pause for response.

    Depending on response I could say

    ‘I do want intimacy like kissing and cuddling, however I only feel safe to allow this when I know that a man will respect my boundaries.

    Pause

    I need to feel safe

    Pause

    That I can say no, and it will be respected.

    Pause

    And then this in turn makes me fel freer to relax and allow intimacy to flow.’



  377.  #377Ella on June 10, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    Interesting that he did say to me tonight that I am quite cold…

    And I said that felt bad, and he said NO he didn’t mean it in a bad way, he just meant I am backwards in coming forward.

    I said it is not a woman’s job to come forward.

    He asked whether I have had a bad experience with a man before…. hpmh, how they heck to answer that?

    Dude I am a recovering Toxic man addict, Lol.

    He asked whether I felt comfortable with him.

    He also asked what onemight do to make me feel comfortable and warm me up.

    I asked him what he meant by ‘warm me up? Warm me up in what way?’ said in a kinda strict but easing voice.

    He said in any way but he looked down when he said it.

    I don’t want to make him feel wrong for having sexual feelings towards me, actually it is nice and very masc energy.

    I just want him to know I am not ‘in’ for a casual hook up.



  378.  #378Ella on June 10, 2011 at 6:24 pm

    I meant ‘teasing voice’ not easing

    Also btw I did not say that line about being a recovering toxic man addict out loud! Just thought it.

    🙂



  379.  #379Ella on June 10, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    Re 373 & 374

    I used to think I was indecisive… but I am not so sure anymore!

    😉



  380.  #380Ella on June 10, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    Time for bed and some healing sleep.

    Night Rusty and Sirens.

    xoxox



  381.  #381FlowerChild77 on June 10, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    #315/SLV Thank you for letting me know that you understand exactly how I feel and why.

    I think you are probably right. As I said, a man doesn’t get to be 56 years old and never married–unless he wants it that way 🙁 Duh…

    And, of course, I know I can’t make him want me/love me/want to marry me, etc. One of the many reasons I didn’t ever talk about it. (I felt like if I have to tell him/ask him, what’s the point?) And I never wanted him to feel pressured about it.

    And, yes, I have thought about a few years down the road meeting someone else who does want me to feel safe and loved. Once I give this the one-more-try at communicating—and know that I’ve been heard—I’m going to take that idea (finding someone new) and RUN with it!

    Thank you for helping me through this. It helps that you understand the age thing and how it changes how we think about life and what we need from it.

    I hope everyone is having a fabulous evening 😉



  382.  #382LobbyStar on June 10, 2011 at 6:49 pm

    Ugh, a man messaged me on the dating site and initiated the conversation talking about a local swingers club. Then he asked if I am very sexual. Mind you, his profile claims he is interested in a LTR. Sad, heavy sigh.

    I was feminine though, I think. I told him I didn’t feel comfortable talking about sexuality to that extent during a first conversation and that I felt turned off. Then he said he wanted to meet me. I told him that he knew nothing about me, and that the only thing I know about him is that he has an interest in swinging, which doesn’t make me feel good about meeting him.

    Um… then I turned all boy. Sorry. I asked if he wanted to know anything about me outside of my pants. Heh.

    Well, I’ll keep practicing.



  383.  #383tinque on June 10, 2011 at 6:56 pm

    Lobbystar – Well turning a little boy on someone who s behaving like this isn’t such a bad thing.

    Your response made me and K smile.

    xxoo



  384.  #384Nita on June 10, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    Dear Rori, I just had a relvelation about myself and I wanted your input. Ive been really feeling in touch with my feelings and the why of them. I am noticing that when I feel different from others or disagree I have trouble speaking up about it…I have so much fear to disagree, to not relate, to not feel accepted by others. i feel like this is why i have trouble in the men department. if I dont do or say what I think he wants or agree with him…. he wont like me i just feel so ackward, even saying this right now its so ackward. example..guy: i like country me ( i secretly dislike country)…”oh its not in my top list but maybe you can introduce me to it i bet the good songs are enjoyable”….if i imagine “oh i dont’ i feel like im being rude! ugh im being dishonest could it be that nice old me is really a decieving and dishonest person? i feel scared. i think its because w my parents (me being oldest) and competitive w my sister for the attention, I always made sure to like my dads hobbies, interests, beliefs in order to be accepted. this is really affecting me i feel uncomfortable right now even sharing this can anyone give me input on how to heal? my idea is speaking up about my beliefs about the little things and even the big things i just humor people! even counseling im afraid to tell the counselor if the strategie for the week wasnt helpful! ughhhh



  385.  #385Nita on June 10, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    i feel tightness in my stomach and in my throat i want to throw up i feel so frustrated and alone. who the f**ck am i?



  386.  #386Nita on June 10, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    in my counseling sessions im not always fully honest in order not to feel judged i remember my last two were at the service at school and you know what i felt? they are secretly jealous of me- im embarrassed right now for feeling arrogant and saying this but when i revealed my inexperience w men in the sessions and afraid of intimacy i was afraid they wouldnt really help me because they would be jealous because im cute o my gosh i cant believe im revealing this right now but thats why i couldnt talk about it at the length i wanted! i feel scared right now



  387.  #387FlowerChild77 on June 10, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    SLV….What are you procrastinating about? 🙂



  388.  #388Lilybelle on June 10, 2011 at 7:20 pm

    381: LobbyStar~

    I agree with Tinque. I look at it like my boy is protecting my girl. I also need to note your response to my memory. One of the emails I got today was from a young man, 20 years my junior, looking to fulfill one of his fantasy’s because “you are so damn hot”. I told him: Sorry, sweetie, you may get to fulfill your fantasy, just not with me. He replied… “DAMN!!!!” 😉 I still got it.

    I am struggling with losing some of the fabulous parts of who I am in practicing all this, losing myself somehow and I have to believe there is some kind of wonderful middle ground. I am pretty fond of *I wants and I don’t wants* used in tandem with some FM’s.



  389.  #389RiverGirl on June 10, 2011 at 7:24 pm

    224: Rusty says:

    “Well it is the case. This was a theme told to us by many Aussie women, and I heard this same story repeated by every guy I know that dated and Aussie while we were there (4 times).

    I can definitely tell you that there is no place like Australia for an American Sailor. it was very refreshing for men who grew up during the rise of Oprah and hearing about what crud we American men are, to actually have women tell us that they love how romantic and generous we American men are. They appreciate the little things so much, such as opening a door for them.

    American men do that so often, American women usually take it for granted. I still can’t get over how Aussie women would actually make such a big deal to us for doing it. I mean you could literally see it brighten their day.

    One girl I met in Perth wasn’t from Perth. Perth is on the Southwest coast, but she was from the Northwest part of Australia. She went to Perth for the specific purpose of finding an American Sailor to marry. She was a very pretty girl. I was sooo tempted.

    A couple of my friends met girls and one of them did marry the girl. These two girls met these guys and dated them in Perth for the week we were there, then traveled to Sydney to spend another week with them when we pulled in there.”
    ————————————-
    Rusty,
    Am I understanding correctly, that you are an American sailor, and that the friends you refer to here are also sailors?

    It seems to me that you are using your encounters with a very distinct group of Australian women, to extrapolate and make judgements about the whole population.

    It is a well known phenomenon that when an American ship is in port, CERTAIN women flock to the ports and the bars the sailors frequent. They know they are on to a sure thing. American sailors seem to have a reputation, but I wouldn’t use that to make blanket statements about all American men or even assume that all American sailors are like that.

    Warning! Judgement coming up! Most Australian men require a better class of woman so those “sailor seeking” women have better luck at the ports.



  390.  #390RiverGirl on June 10, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    @ 262

    LOL!! He sounds authentic Lucy!



  391.  #391Emerson on June 10, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    Thank you Elizabeth…and anyone else that replied to me. Yes, I have a hard time keeping up with the blog sometimes and reading all of it, I worry that I miss some things at times…

    Thanks for your feedback and encouragement.

    I am drawing a blank on feeling messages…I’m in an exchange on email with TheDad (That’s what I will call the guy with 3 kids), and we are trying to coordinate a time to meet. I want to incorporate feeling messages, and I have here and there, but I am running out of things to say. Honestly, I would rather hash out the scheduing on the phone. But he has my number and has not called, it’s all on email.

    Sirens, what do you think?



  392.  #392LobbyStar on June 10, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    So a 28 year old asked me out a couple days ago, and that was cool. He’s super smart and nice and very handsome. I have crushed on him for months! I had been doing the eye contact thing and it worked!

    Then tonight, a male friend of mine messaged me and asked me out. He is only 20. (I am 42. I told him I have pubes older than him. Which isn’t really true, but I digress.) He said he sees a “good little spark” between us and that he gets shy around me. Then he said that if we get serious, he would be willing to make it the most loving and caring relationship he could. He also said that he would be more than willing to support my son (he’s studying to be a chef). AND he said he doesn’t want to have sex until marriage.

    I can’t believe my life.



  393.  #393Daria on June 10, 2011 at 8:49 pm

    I am making a plan B for every move I make and it feels so not lonely and less stressful!

    Yay me !

    I don’t have to feel like I have nothing to do and get that lonely , lost in the world , homeless , useless feeling.

    Uh! So triggering like a bum.

    I love me!



  394.  #394Daria on June 10, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    Lillybelle – what reassured me so much is Rori saying that I never lose the parts of myself, instead I expand and take them all with me… And that’s been my experience.,, thank god because I feel terrified of losing parts of me I’ve wanted so much like my ‘cool girl’ James bond



  395.  #395Daria on June 10, 2011 at 8:55 pm

    Nita – you go girl! I can feel you ! Thank you for sharing with us here! Much love to you



  396.  #396Daria on June 10, 2011 at 9:00 pm

    I’ve been relying maybe all my life, for Men to provide the fun for me. But aren’t eonen the ‘fun’ person? I’m onto Sonething with this 2 plan thing

    My plan leaving barnes and noble is to go downtown to the club or go home.



  397.  #397Nita on June 10, 2011 at 10:13 pm

    thank you Daria!! can you believe that after i wrote that i felt shaky? and nervous and sweaty and my eyes got slightly puffy!! ugh and i feel the possibility of throwing up right now….im gonna go to a new counselor and let it rip how am i gonna heal if im not honest u know? haha..when i think of this blog i always think about what u write sometimes its annoying what you say and how honest u are even sexually disturbing! and i freaking admire u for that and secretly jealous so freaking different from me ur cool and sometimes u dont even give a shit haha



  398.  #398Dawn on June 11, 2011 at 3:32 am

    Men really only want the truth just like we do. I told this one guy at work that I dont date my coworkers but if someone special came along I may be open to it. I also expressed that there would be ” rules ” and my job meant more to me than any man . He smiled and said really ?Now hes following me and trying to make my job easier. I was just upfront and honest. Im not interested in this guy but it felt good .



  399.  #399Dawn on June 11, 2011 at 3:49 am

    I checked out the DR Demartini link one of you lovely ladies shared. I cant remember who exactly but thankyou. It reaffirmed beliefs for me that sometimes feel lost here.



  400.  #400flower on June 11, 2011 at 4:36 am

    daria , did is ee your bday was yesterday , somewhere? happy bday to u ,

    my bday is today



  401.  #401Dawn on June 11, 2011 at 4:36 am

    Seems Im all by myself here. For me that feels OK. I love solitude. I greatly appreciate the quiet. Being by myself. The weather here is wonderful. Its 7 AM the birds are chirping and all is good. I have everything I need right here. That is the most awesome feeling in the world ! What makes me feel sad is I cant convey in words what it feels like to just let go and let it be. Fighting values and analising situations just conjures up more fear adding more plausible reasons for bad feelings. Its a vicious circle , in my opinion. Where there is balance there isnt tension. When something doesnt feel right its not right. No one has to tell us its not right, no one has to agree .



  402.  #402Dawn on June 11, 2011 at 4:40 am

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY FLOWER !!!!!!!!!!



  403.  #403Lily T. on June 11, 2011 at 4:57 am

    Happy Birthday Flower and Lucy! 🙂



  404.  #404Jeannette on June 11, 2011 at 5:05 am

    Happy b’day Flower and Lucy! Hope it was a nice one!



  405.  #405Lily T. on June 11, 2011 at 5:07 am

    399 Dawn,

    ” When something doesnt feel right its not right. No one has to tell us its not right, no one has to agree .”

    Yes.



  406.  #406Ella on June 11, 2011 at 5:09 am

    Hey,

    I have felt afraid of losing the ‘cool girl’ part of me too, with all the leaning back and tools and being fem energy.

    And I don’t want that cus I like her.

    Now I know there is a place for her too, and when she comes out now she will come from a place of strength, positivity and confidence, rather than from a place of need, overfunctioning and trying to impress.

    And that is supercool.

    She may come out for a bit later tonight.

    😉



  407.  #407Jeannette on June 11, 2011 at 5:13 am

    Dorothea, I’ve been there with the depression. I tried medication but it seemed to make matters worse. Do you read at all? Someone on this site directed me to “A Return to Love,” by Marianne Williamson. It’s an excellent read. It brought me out of some depression along with some meditation and journalying. A lot of writing makes a difference. Write about EVERYTHING and ask your self WHY, WHY am I feeling this and write about that…Then ask yourself, “What does this mean?” Then write about that…..It DOES help Dorothea. I am here if you need to talk…God bless you. Depression is a turning point in ones life…I guarantee if you hang in there you will come out the other side……stronger Dorothea, trust me…..



  408.  #408Dawn on June 11, 2011 at 5:14 am

    We make it way too complicated . It is what it is . As a society we undervalue ourselves to the point we constantly seek validation. Its right where it supposed to be , in ourselves.



  409.  #409Lily T. on June 11, 2011 at 5:17 am

    “A Woman’s Worth” is another book by Marianne Williamson that’s a good read. Largely deals with self-esteem as I recall.



  410.  #410Dawn on June 11, 2011 at 5:22 am

    Lily T, It feels like we are on the same page so to speak. LOL pun intended



  411.  #411Dawn on June 11, 2011 at 5:29 am

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY LUCY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



  412.  #412Femininewoman on June 11, 2011 at 5:29 am

    Happy happy birthday ((((((((((((((Flower))))))))))))))))

    Happy birthday sweet sweet ((((((((((((((Lucy)))))))))))))))

    Wishing you both the best in your transformation



  413.  #413Femininewoman on June 11, 2011 at 5:30 am

    RE 407 I’m definitely going to look up that book.



  414.  #414Dawn on June 11, 2011 at 5:33 am

    ?



  415.  #415Femininewoman on June 11, 2011 at 5:34 am

    Emerson how do you feel about the email? Do you feel bored, worn out, drained? Then just say that. Or I feel more comfortable with one on one conversation. Or whatever you feel.



  416.  #416Dawn on June 11, 2011 at 5:34 am

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY LUCY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I tried to comment that twice ergo the ? . LOL



  417.  #417Lily T. on June 11, 2011 at 5:35 am

    Yes Dawn, I think so too. 🙂



  418.  #418Femininewoman on June 11, 2011 at 5:38 am

    Emerson I would encourage you to put your attention into your body, touch things around you and try to come up with a feeling. As try the tapping. See if you can identify when your palms feel sweaty. See if you can find things in your life that you can be grateful for and see if you can come up with feelings of excitement about things you like to do. I struggle also with words with express my feelings but I know I am feeling something. Even if it is blah or meh



  419.  #419Femininewoman on June 11, 2011 at 5:41 am

    RE 386 Lilybelle I sense some fear there and if that was the case I would tap on that it it were me. The way I see it is I am evolving to re-present myself to the world. The self I want to be and present is my best self.



  420.  #420Lily T. on June 11, 2011 at 5:41 am

    412 FW,

    Or she could say, “It would feel good to talk to you on the phone.” I’ve seen some women on here use that one when they tired of email/ text messages.



  421.  #421Femininewoman on June 11, 2011 at 5:45 am

    Re 384 Nita you are entitled to think the way you wish about yourself. Jealousy in my opinion is a part of the human condition but I would be careful about trying to read people’s mind and being judgemental about them. Most people like positive energy so my belief is, if that is shared as in just expressing yourself without arrogance they will see you the same way you see yourself. Once you are not a threat to them in any way I think they will respect your opinion of yourself.



  422.  #422Femininewoman on June 11, 2011 at 5:53 am

    RE 376 Ella I would take that as him maybe telling me that he feels a part of my heart as being closed. I would try using good feeling messages first as in what he does that makes me feel good or valued then what I want before I go into what I don’t want. Just to see if that works with him and if he elaborates on the “cold” comment. I suspect he might be perceiving the dont wants as negativity. Or he might feel like he is struggling to fix things so you can feel happy.



  423.  #423Lilybelle on June 11, 2011 at 6:00 am

    416:

    FW~

    No, I don’t feel fear. Just an observation and acknowledgment of what is currently showing up.



  424.  #424Femininewoman on June 11, 2011 at 6:11 am

    RE 420 Okay



  425.  #425Dawn on June 11, 2011 at 6:20 am

    Most of the time when people make a statement or ask a question they already know the answer. !!!



  426.  #426Femininewoman on June 11, 2011 at 6:24 am

    That is so true Dawn but some of us are afraid of it. At times when there is something else to look at, that helps the brain refocus to the truth. At least that is my experience.



  427.  #427Dawn on June 11, 2011 at 6:27 am

    FW in my opinion we don