If He’s Going From Passionate To Friendly

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Thank you for your brilliant comments and stories and testimonials, and I realize the only way I can answer you in a meaningful way is here in actual posts (please forgive me in advance for replying to some, and not all of your comments – it would be overwhelming for me to even try, so I try to pick the ones from new members of our community, and urgent or frightening issues – and I want to bless you all from my heart for the brilliant help you’re giving each other.  If I take issue with anything you say, I’ll reply for sure – but so far – you’re all right on!)  – So, here’s my take on this scenario a lot of you seem to be struggling with :

He wants to be a friend, but when you see him and have sex with him it’s amazing, and so you can’t understand why he’s merely “friendly” when he leaves.

Here’s the answer: Men are different from women.

He can have a knock-out, deeply emotional sexual experience with you – sex that “blows-his-mind,” in a way you can FEEL.  A way that feels just like the deep emotional experience YOU’RE having.  But it’s NOT the same as what you’re feeling.

When we have an orgasm with a man – all kinds of things open up.  The hormone oxytocin floods us, and binds us to the man in a scientifically physical and emotional way.  Even if he’s a man we weren’t initially attracted to – having a great emotional and physical orgasm with him will bring us into the “falling in love” range.

A man doesn’t work that way. His hormones work completely differently. His GUT tells him who to love and who not to love, and love, for him, does not GROW from not-love.  Love does not grow from friendship for a man.  And love does not grow from mind-blowing sex.  Sex only ADDS TO what he already feels – it CAN’T get those feelings STARTED.

And once his “infatuation” or whatever he felt for you at first turns to “friendship” – that’s pretty much it.

However – a man who’s “in love” in the first place does NOT turn his feelings into “friendship.”  If he says he wants to be “friends” – then that’s very possibly the way he ALWAYS felt.

You can save yourself so much pain by NOT ASSUMING ANYTHING.  Just because it looks like love to you, and feels like love to you – it doesn’t mean it’s love to HIM.

So what’s the only way to know what he’s really and truly feeling?

Over time, he will insist on a commitment from you.  That’s pretty much it.

That means – you NEVER stop dating other men until that commitment is coming at you.  And I don’t mean the “girlfriend” commitment – because that’s NOTHING (unless you’re young and still in school).  I mean the MARRYING commitment.  I mean what HE thinks of as FOREVER.

And if, over time, that commitment is not automatically coming at you, then you have to TALK TO HIM.

The absolutely MOST APPEALING thing a woman can do is SPEAK.  And what I mean by that is that you are able to say out loud, in clear words, in a very straight-forward and simple way – exactly what it is you’re feeling, exactly what it is you want, exactly what it is you want him to do in bed, exactly what it is you DON’T want.

If you can “Speak In The Moment” – so that there are few misunderstandings, so he doesn’t have to guess what’s going on with you (because that’s nearly impossible for ANY man – they just don’t work that way), so he can feel relaxed around you and not wonder why you’re tense or cold or what you’re really feeling…you will build an UNBREAKABLE BOND with a man who ALREADY LOVES you!

The possibility of “Forever Love” has to be there for him (and it’s not something you can understand or figure out) before ANYTHING else can kick in.

He has to feel that deep down sense of ATTRACTION – and although you are in control of so much about attraction (any of you who have my Modern Siren program can talk about that, I know) – there are parts of attraction you can’t have any control of.

There are pheremones, and links to his mother and father, and the sound of your voice, and things about you that feel familiar to him and things that feel strange – it’s like a “stew” for him that he just feels in his GUT.

Without the “raw materials” of whatever it is that kicks in attraction for a man – there’s nothing you can do.

However – there’s a lot you CAN do AFTER THAT.  All you need is the initial attraction, to know that it’s there for him in a scientific and gut level for him, and you can create more and more attraction until his “infatuation” or “initial attraction” turns into the real thing for him.

So – when you “Speak In The Moment” – when you Talk To Him.  When you ask him where he’s at, listen to him, and then use that information to TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF – that creates MORE and DEEPER attraction.

What he says is what you get.  Men don’t get all gooey and confused when they talk.  For the most part, they tell the truth.  They’re just not as good at NOT telling the truth as we are (unless he’s a deeply gifted Toxic Man with a smooth tongue).

So if he utters the words “I want to be your friend” – beware.  Any energy you spend trying to turn that into passion will look needy, clingy, desperate – and like you aren’t HEARING HIM.

He will feel unheard and unsafe – and he will also automatically assume that YOU are telling the truth.

If you say “okay” to “sex buddy” status – he’ll let you.

He’ll figure you know what you’re doing.

He’ll figure you’re doing what you want.

He’ll let you take responsibility for you.

So don’t get mad at him.  He’s telling you to TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF. And don’t be confused.

To a man: Friends can have sex.  Friends can have PASSIONATE sex.  Friends can hold hands and kiss. Friends can hang out every night of the week.  Friends can do everything together that LOOKS like “relationship” to us.  But it isn’t. It isn’t relationship.

Because one thing friends can’t have is ROMANCE.  You can’t make it up, or will it into being.

And another thing friends can’t have is commitment and marriage. Because no self-respecting man would be interested in doing that – no matter how your “relationship” looks to you.

Thank him, and KEEP DATING.

Let me know if this helps…Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Becca on November 20, 2008 at 4:58 pm

    I feel sad after reading this post. I feel scared of what it means about me and my situation and I feel unsure about how to interpret it. I want him… but does this mean that he’ll never want or feel attracted to me again? It feels too simple but so complicated at the same time.
    I know once upon a time we would talk about marriage but always felt too young and it wasn’t practical while I was at uni and we couldn’t afford it. He loved me. I know that, and he told me often. When he broke up with me I could see the struggle on his face. He didn’t want to. He loved me. But he felt he couldn’t go on the way things were and I didn’t want to either but I didn’t want us to break up. I thought we could find a way but neither of us knew a way to make things right at that stage. We were stuck in a rut and didn’t know how to get out of it. We kept trying the same things because we didn’t know how to do things differently.
    I was overfunctioning… always giving, giving, giving and it never felt like enough. And the more I gave, the further he ran. And I wasn’t good at receiving back then, but now I am slowly getting better at this. And not giving. I was never happy anymore in the end, nothing was ever enough because I was relying on him too much. And I know this now and I feel sadness and regret that I don’t have him still because I have the power to change things now. I have the power of knowing that I don’t need him and that I can and do and will make myself happy and love myself.
    And I feel heartbroken again at this moment knowing this. I feel an ache in my heart and a lump catching in my throat. I don’t need him now, but I want him. I know that I will love again. There will be other men. Some of them have even started presenting themselves to me. And this makes me feel even more special and good inside. But I still love him, and at the moment feel like I always will. But the question is; can I nurture the love of old? It has been about four months now, maybe a little more. Can I re-spark that attraction we felt so strongly for each other throughout the first 2 years of our relationship? Surely it is still there, only buried beneath layer of feelings… hurt, anger, sadness, new experiences. We were together for 2 and a half years and it was only in the last 3 or 4 months that things started going downhill. Surely if I start speaking from my heart with feeling messages he will feel safe enough to love me again. Surely if I let him get close to me, he will come closer and give his love again.
    But I don’t want the relationship we had, especially at the end. I want to build a stronger one. Where we are always true to our feelings. Where he gives and I give BACK. No more overfunctioning! And this new wonderful relationship feels like passion and joy and we can’t keep our hands off each other. It feels like staying up all night talking about anything and everything, like we used to. It feels like him hugging me and kissing like it will be our last. It feels like passion and sex and wanting it to last forever. It feels like playing and wrestling and laughing until our stomachs hurt. It feels like an exciting adventure. It feels like laying my head on his shoulder and comforting each other when we’re upset and knowing that we will always be there for each other. It feels like butterflies doing back flips in my stomach when I see him across the room. It feels giddy and dizzy and intoxicating. It feels like loving and caring. It feels like we are creating a wonderful world of our own. That is what I want.
    Sometimes I can’t imagine this happening with any man but him… but I know that it will one day, if we don’t. Every time I feel stronger, like I am moving on, I get dragged back into my love for him. And I can’t just stop feeling it. I have tried. I feel like he will be in my heart forever. I want him with me. I just don’t know how to make that happen. I want him to be happy. And I feel so selfish feeling this, but I want him to be happy with me.
    And then I start thinking maybe I don’t deserve what I want. But I do. We all do. We all deserve to love and be loved… and I am loving myself and all these feelings right now even though I don’t like them. Even though I don’t want them. I am loving them. Because they are a part of me and I am loving every part of me… even the parts I don’t like or want. I feel a bit better about this now. I feel stronger inside. I feel like I can move on, even if I don’t want to. Baby steps.

    I want to Thank You Rori for the Thanking yourself tool. It feels so good to openly appreciate myself like this. I will be doing this more often 
    Here is me thanking myself:
    Thank you for being caring and kind. For being patient and understanding. For loving you, even the parts you don’t like. Thank you for having the courage to do what’s best for your career even though it scares you so much. Thank you for being funny and friendly. Thank you for worrying about the future and how you feel. Thank you for listening. Thank you for feeling and not pushing all the bad stuff under the carpet where it can fester. Thank you for working out what you want, even though it gets frustrating and changes sometimes. Thank you for being yourself. Thank you for being special and unique and providing value to the world. Thank you for hugging yourself when you feel down. Thank you for looking out for your health, family and friends. Thank you for being beautiful, inside and out. Thank you for recognising your beauty and value and that you are wanted and needed.


  2.  #2Rori Raye on November 20, 2008 at 7:07 pm

    Becca – Don’t worry about being scared – (and thank you for the lovely love poem to you!)

    If the attraction is still there for him (and it may be, you won’t know until you see it come back). Once you stop the Overfunctioning and turn into an Invitation – he may just turn around on a dime. And when he does – you may not want him (I can’t tell you how much of the time this happens).

    Just keep moving forward with the Tools – just as you’re doing – and add in the Circular Dating as best you can. Love, Rori

  3.  #3Reshi on November 20, 2008 at 7:08 pm

    I wonder if it’s possible in my situation that my husband always felt just friendship–even though he asked me to marry him.

    Maybe it’s just me trying to find the worst possibility in everything–I know that’s something I do.

  4.  #4Reshi on November 20, 2008 at 7:36 pm

    ‘Cause, like, I could have just read this article and been like “Sweet, I have it made, there’s NO WAY I CAN FAIL.” I wonder how different my life would be if I thought that way.

  5.  #5Lee on November 20, 2008 at 8:48 pm

    Hi Becca,
    I am sort of where you are — wondering if the attraction he used to feel is dead and gone for good or not. He was so in love with me for so many years – but without receiving love back from me as fully as he needed, he finally lost “his feelings” and now only wants to be friends. (I was not as in love with him initially, and was “held back” in fully accepting and appreciating the love he offered.) I have now realized my mistakes as well as how much he really meant to me, and so now I have turned toward him (where before I was just into myself and took him for granted) – but to him what I do now is too little too late, and he just wants to move on (oh – and be friends to , although not sexual friends.)

    I am trying to apply Rori’s ideas on focusing on myself, and to try and really believe in me, but it is really hard cause I just really want him back – and it really depresses me to think I have lost him for good, especially when it is largely due to my own lack of attention and appreciation of him in the past. I know we all make mistakes and that I should not beat up on myself — but really, it is hard to not blame myself.

    But anyway — what she is saying about the attraction just being there or not, is totally scary, because now that he does not “feel” what he wants to for me, I just do not see how it can possibly turn around. If it does not, that is just it. And that just makes me cry….

  6.  #6Erika on November 20, 2008 at 11:19 pm

    I don’t believe attraction is ever gone for good. I’ve seen too many relationships go to platonic and later shift back to sexy and romantic. It’s all about your inner strength though. It’s all about finding your own center. Once you find that, you can do anything. You can reignite a connection that has gone stale. Never let go of hope. Let go of attachment and fear but keep your eye on hope and trust. Miracles happen every day 🙂

  7.  #7Daria on November 21, 2008 at 1:42 am

    I feel confused…
    I have met men who say they want to be friends at the beginning, yet entered a relationship with me and continued pursuing me…
    I have had me who say they are In love with me… then want to be friends, yet tell me they would be with me … if things were this way that way
    I have had men whom I told that I’m changing my life and becoming interested in being married and who said “can I be a part of that…” yet whom I later told we can just be friends and they seemed ok with it…

    I don’t get the beginning part of this post yet… maybe these men all really have wanted to be friends all along? Yet it seems limiting to me to think that way… I want to feel empowered to attract them and their love and commitment… and even writing that feels empowering and freeing!

    I do very much appreciate the part that says the most appealing thing a woman can do is speak… I’m starting to understand this and feel confident in doing it

  8.  #8Rori Raye on November 21, 2008 at 1:59 am

    Want to clear this up. It’s not what he says, it’s what he does, and what he does until he wants you to commit to him in a forever way can be always shifting.

    Yes, I’m with Erika – if he EVER felt it for you, you can bring it back. You can. It’s just dormant, hidden by anger and all kinds of things. If he never really did – that’s different – he may not be able to open up that part of himself to you, and there’s no way for you to know except to keep on dating pretty much every man who asks you until something happens for real – that you can feel.

    What I wanted to get across here is to not get focused on any one man. It’s very easy to mistake a man who really, really likes you, wants to hang around with you, and feels sexually passionate with you for a man who’s feeling compelled to make sure he gets to spend the rest of his life with you.

    For a man, these are different impulses. Keep practicing, and you’ll draw in ANY man to where you can actually feel the differences between them and the energy they’re putting out – and make great choices for yourself.

    Oh, and Alias Girl – you can check out all my programs, watch them, listen to them, read about them – in the sidebar line here on the blog that says “To Rori’s Program Catalog.” Love, Rori

  9.  #9Rori Raye on November 21, 2008 at 2:05 am

    Lee – Your man was ATTRACTED to the fact that you weren’t “into” him. Your aloofness was what he liked. That’s why he stayed so many years. You may not have been able to “receive” from him – and that might have pushed him away in the end – but if you can somehow get “pulled” back, just the way you were, only let him in this time when he comes toward you – you might see a different result here.

    Your all of a sudden “turning toward” him, and giving your love to him is what’s pushing him away.

    The whole concept of being an “Invitation” – this is in Commitment Blueprint – and then the whole Modern Siren program is about this way of attracting a man deeply – is this “Leaning Back” combined with a deep emotionality, a deep ability to take a man IN emotionally. The inner strength you had, even though it may have been “cold” – worked for you, and it will again. Try it, and let me know. Love, Rori

  10.  #10Maria on November 21, 2008 at 8:18 am

    Rori thank you so much for clearing this out!!! woof! what a relief…after reading all this stuff I was relating with everyone about everything and was starting to go down into that hole of hopelessness! didn’t like it at all! But now I’m back at feeling hopeful, and having faith…Bless you all!

  11.  #11alias girl on November 21, 2008 at 11:27 am

    thanks rori!! don’t know why i always have trouble finding it. it may have something to with me often checking this site from a cellphone and things show up different. i’ll check again when i’m on a regular computer. not sure why i have trouble finding where to buy stuff. 🙂

  12.  #12Daria on November 21, 2008 at 2:08 pm

    ok I think things may have cleared up about this!

    I spent the night doing a huge and needed favor for the man that, after we were friends, seemed to start liking me and puppydog me around, yet after having sex I fell ok I’ll say it fell in love with. While he remained wanting to be friends. It felt good and horrible to do this favor for him. When he saw me his energy was sweet and definitely friendly, which felt good! This man is my friend! I can tell this is not romantic energy! I wonder if he can fall in love with me, but I am not attached to it. I love his friend energy too, and now that I am focused on me don’t feel desperate to have him want me in that romantic way, although I do want that. Don’t even know if I would want him then, although perhaps I would… but I have my whole life ahead of me and so many men that would offer me romantic energy!

    I am getting it! Rori says if he’s in love, he won’t ACT like a friend. You can tell he’s in love… even if it’s the beginning. That’s the guy that calls you non-stop, does almost everything for u and more, annoys you with his incessant desire to always be nice to u, stare at u, and tell u how pretty u are! LOL! At least in my experience so far, but I am not practicing shifting my receiving so I can receive something more exciting.

    Now if he’s a friend, doesn’t mean he can’t fall in love. He may or may not, but if you mistake one for the other and lean towards him, he won’t get a chance to!

  13.  #13Tina on November 21, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    Hi Rori,
    Thank you for the “From Passionate to Friendly” article. It is an answer to a question I have had for the last 6 months about my situation with an ex-boyfriend I dated 10 years ago for 1 year before he broke up with me after the discovery of his indiscretion with another yound lady at the same time he was dating me. I ran into him during the 10 year period twice and we both were excited to see one another. He ended up marrying the young lady I mentioned above but divorced her after only 2 years of marriage and has been single now since that time. I ran into him again while shopping 6 months ago and this time instead of just greeting briefly and walking away he told me that he realized how much he loves me and that he feels that I “belong to him” and he wants to give it another try. He said that he is divorced and available. I reluctantly agreed to talk about things. When we met for our first date during dinner he said that he has always loved me that he knows that I love him (we never mentioned our feelings 10 years ago). He said that he wants to go forward and see what happens with the “ultimate goal of marriage and raising our two kids together” (his words). By the way, I had a son during that 10 year period and he has been raising his young daughter since her mother was killed in a car accident 4 years ago (they never married). We then as some point decided to officially call one another “boyfriend and girlfriend” and to date exclusively, but I have doubts about us partly because of the past and partly because of the times when we plan to see each other and he can’t make it. He has a contracting business that keeps him busy most days and then there is his daughter. I am trying to be understanding and supportive and I know our relationship now is much different because of our circumstances and responsiblities, but I wonder about the ‘girlfriend” title and being exclusive to him if he is not really being that to me. I have not seen him as often as I think we should be seeing each other. We have only gone out about 3 times and been intimate only twice in 6 months and I have addressed with him that we hardly see each other so how can we grow together. He understood and said that “we have to make it happen” (see each other more often). I am noticing that I make most of the contacts and I make most of the attempts to meet and go out. He for the most part has stood me up once and cancelled (but did apologize) on several dates and I am feeling very apprehensive now, although I do love him very much and afraid to let him go. He keeps telling me that he loves me and “fell in love with me long ago” and that no man before him or after him could ever love me the way he does, yet his actions make me wonder. I will take your advice to continue dating other men. I did tell him that I have male friends, but not intimate with any of the them and he has said the same. He says we have time and that he has me back and is not going anywhere this time. I now realize after reading your articles that I need to focus more on me and do your “Thank You” exercise for myself. I have been wondering if I should end it or just wait it out and keep dating for now.


  14.  #14Rori Raye on November 21, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    Tina, Just date him along with all the other men – and sleep with only him. If you meet another man you want to sleep with, then either be okay with that as a fling – or if you like him, dump this man and sleep with the other. No matter what – DON’T stop DATING ANY of them. Sex has nothing to do with “Dating.” Love, Rori

  15.  #15alias girl on November 21, 2008 at 4:29 pm

    i like readin your comment daria! while ias reading my mind suddenly remembered when two of my exes used the word Friend in relation to me. i used to really want to be with these men bc i felt i could be myself around them and they seemed smitten with me. (yes despite their Friend terminolgy) but now i wonder if i had the choice if they would even be the best mate for me.CERTAINLY not with the way they hve acted towards me in the past. i require more romance, more commitment, more (oddly enough) true friendship and cooperation if i were to Seriously consider commiting to a man. otherwise i feel i would be getting the short end. i feel i have alot to offer despite my bouts of terrifying fear and i’m not going to settle. i don’t need to settle. nobody needs to settle for relayionships of starvation on crumbs and reluctance coming from a man. ick. no. ick. welcome to my New Normal. thanks rori!!! xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxox!!

  16.  #16Sandy on November 21, 2008 at 9:57 pm

    Thank-you for this, Rori,

    I was with a man that looked deep into my eyes and asked where I was 20 yrs ago – it sure seemed like real love, no one had ever looked at me that way before (I had been married for 19 yrs). A couple of months later he broke up with no warning. I called him a month later and then we got back together, beginning by him pretty much just wanting sex, but then back to a relationship for a few weeks, then he’s gone again. He came back a month later, then 3 weeks later, gone again. I know part of it was my schedule (I was a pet sitter – just quit – so barely any free time summer , weekends + holidays). But the last time was a month before I was quitting. It seemed like for him he loved me for a little while, then just didn’t anymore, then did, then didn’t anymore. He said he loved me and I felt it this last time we were together late summer. I feel so confused by this. Now he’s emailed/called me twice about a week apart, wanting just sex and I turned him down. The response to my first turning down was ‘OH I wish I could lie’ (I said I needed more than just sex). Yesterday the reply I got to my 2nd turn down was ‘No fun anymore! Too bad.’ So maybe he’s really gone now. But I do believe he did love me once (he called me every night, was very generous, gave compliments), and I know he is very physically attracted to me. So maybe he will come back? I would love to have sex with him – I miss it, but really want more than that (which is what I told him) and want to feel valued, which I won’t if I do. I know I need to get out and date men (I’ve just turned 52 and met him on match. I’ve been peeking, but not back on yet). He changed his profile headline to something that obviously related to our last email exchange that same day, I think that is interesting (and isn’t what you would think someone would have in a heading). When I was with him, I was not doing many feeling messages. In fact, after dating another guy for a few weeks last month, I noticed how easy it was to have a conversation with him, unlike with my ex, where I just didn’t say much. I think one reason is his couch potato-ness, with the TV on all the time, to me, it’s almost like if I talk, I’m interrupting something. I don’t watch TV at home, and I went to his place ALL the time (I know that’s bad, he has a big screen TV and cable, I don’t). But maybe a bigger reason is he didn’t feel connected to me because I wasn’t saying much? I did try to use feeling messages as much as I could in the last email exchanges, it didn’t seem to make a difference in how he responded, but not enough of a trial. I want to wait until after the holidays to really get back on match.com, I feel I need time to regroup and think about what I want in a man. And if he comes back during that time, I will definitely lean back, say I don’t want to go to his place all the time, and that it would feel great to get out and go for a walk or something rather than watch TV so much.

    Thanks for listening

  17.  #17Becca on November 21, 2008 at 11:46 pm

    Lee – thank you for your understanding. I too feel like crying sometimes when I wonder if things can ever be turned around. Sometimes things feel so hopeless… but Rori is right about focusing on yourself. You are the single most important person in your world.
    Erika – that was so beautiful. Thank you. You gave me hope. You are totally right. I just need to learn to let go of my attachment and fears and maybe it will start feeling safe for him to get closer. The is always hope.

  18.  #18Caj13 on November 22, 2008 at 6:14 am

    Alias Girl wrote : “i require more romance, more commitment, more (oddly enough) true friendship and cooperation if i were to Seriously consider commiting to a man”. YES! I don’t think it’s odd to want true friendship in a relationship – for me it’s both normal and natural for most women and a good thing for a relationship. Unfortunately, that way of thinking often clouds our perception of the relationship, because when he’s our friend we take it as a sign that his “love” is well-rounded and non-exploitive, that he’s seen beyond sex and just satisfying his own personal needs.

    Besides all the hugely useful explanations Rori has given us about how friendship works for men in this context, here are some other observations: Many grown men have few or no real friends. Sports and beer buddies, yes, but even their closer male-bonding relationships don’t work like females’ true friendships between equals. Even if they sometimes get to the level of sacrificing for a friend, they mostly keep their empathy discreet and feel comfortable staying in a hierarchical rapport with their friends (who’s the strongest, best etc. – all that ‘play’ competition is for real), even as they do with their fathers and sons. In life in general, it’s just natural for men to seek the dominant position, but in close relationships they’ll accept the less dominant one as long as they recognize the legitimate power, expertise or strength of the other. But as soon as they sense weakness, hesitancy, it’s okay to take over and be the top dog, still expecting to maintain the friendship without much worrying about hurt feelings. So their usual way of being friends with a woman is to be “more” equal, taking advantage any time they sense the other is of lower status.

    Many of the men who do want a close, supportive, egalitarian friendship wind up only finding it with women. And though it really can stay perfectly platonic, and must if the friendship is to last, it’s much easier for them to throw sex into the mix and not realize the cost of that to their woman friend (and the friendship).

    So not sharing a common understanding of what friendship is and how it works is one of the problems with ‘friendship’ in a romantic relationship. Both versions are perfectly fine, but our expectations will not be valid if the man is coming from a different place.

    On the other hand, you often hear people who have had a wonderful, nourishing, lifelong relationship say they are each other’s best friend. So I think that is a great thing to aim for as part of the overall picture. Just don’t confuse that with a good starting place from which a relationship with ALL that we want in it will develop.

    Erika – I just love the concise way you always tie all the essentials together!

  19.  #19alias girl on November 22, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    hmmmm. what if the guy has never been romantic with ANYBODY? seriously. what if all he knows is what he’s showing me. i mean it seems obvious i would attract that since i haven’t really been on the reciving end of a lot of romatic courting also. it’s like the blind leading the blind. and i keep using incorrect statements. i keep saying i don’t want just sex only relationshipsand yesy that is true but what i really want is romance. i don’t know how to phrase this. i want teddy bears and charm bracelets and pretty earrings and love notes and flowers and dinners and secret glances and private jokes. how do i phrase that in a i don’t want statement? i am confusing men bc i cannot communicate well. i DON’t want to get married tomorrow but i think the way i am phrasing thins makes it sound as if i am trying to get the guy to offer me a commitment. i want to date WITH ROMANCE until it becomes clear it would be a healthy good thing to exclude other men from the arrangement. hmmm…any suggestions?

  20.  #20Caj13 on November 22, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    Alias Girl – it does appear a bit illogical to say what you want with ‘I don’t want messages’, but of course you can hardly give the guy a to-do list , either. Maybe when you’re out with someone you’ll see situations in movies or at the next table that you could comment on like “oh I felt so sorry for that poor wife who got the $500 vacuum cleaner at her birthday bash when all she wanted was a candlellight dinner for two”, or “that’s so romantic – it just makes me feel all melty”. Look for moments when you can show that your taste runs to the romantic (he says he likes such and such, and you say “me, too, and if ….(add a romantic touch to it here), then I really feel thrilled”). I heard a girl complaining recently of her un-romantic bf until it dawned on her that she had made him think she didn’t go in for romance by not reacting when romantic possibilities were showing up and always deferring to his taste and choosing the “no frills attached”. Of course, the best is noticing that a romantic gesture is being made and allowing yourself to receive them, then showing your appreciation for even the slightest ones. Give him a warm smile or thank you. Every time. Practice. You’re probably getting more offers than you realize because they’re coming from guys you’re not into or from unexpected places. Say when you get up “I want something romantic to happen to me today” and notice when it happens. And don’t worry about encouraging unwanted attention or hurting anyone’s feelings – that’s irrelevant. You deserve any romantic gestures anyone makes to you, and you owe them nothing for it (it’s their pleasure, that’s why they did it).

  21.  #21Daria on November 22, 2008 at 3:29 pm


    I feel annoyed that I have a headache… and I love my annoyance… I feel disappointed that I haven’t gotten interesting phonecalls this morning yet… and I love my disappointment… I feel tired and I love that, and a part of me feels disappointed that I feel tired because I already slept 12 hours. I love that part of me too. Part of me wants to go out and have fun and I love that part but another part wants to sleep…

    I am going to lay down and sleep some more… I feel afraid that I will not feel better… and I love my fear… and I still feel sleepy…

  22.  #22Daria on November 22, 2008 at 4:37 pm

    what happened to the pep-talk post? did it get deleted?

  23.  #23alias girl on November 22, 2008 at 10:04 pm

    yesyes caj 13. that sounds awesome. a much better anlge to come at it from. so i am going to start noticing and appreciating the tiniest of romantic gestures. that sounds goof. and then maybe with baby steps i can work my way up to a gondola in italy! i totally want a romantic guy. and i want to be romantic too but i can see how it can be scary for a guy if he is not used to doing things like that. i feel very excited about this! thanks caj 13!

  24.  #24Caj13 on November 23, 2008 at 7:47 am

    Go for the gondola, girls! And sampans on the Mekong, red sails in the sunset, the quiet canoe, with you under your parasol while he rows his contented heart away…

    Daria sweetie – how can you get all that painting and dancing done if you’re stuck in the sack so long? (I’m just jealous – I feel lucky to get 6 hrs sleep straight) It’s true, there are some pretty voluptuous things you can do in bed…

  25.  #25Erika on November 23, 2008 at 10:00 am

    Hey, I hear you gals on the “don’t want” awkwardness. It’s a great place to start for getting clarity and I’m also a big fan of giving yourself permission to experiment with language and feel your way into words that feel congruent with your own style.

    The other night I was meeting a guy for a drink and he texts me to say he’s broke. Lol 🙂 well, chivalry is important to me but I’m not going to try to force any particular guy to be chivalrous. My power is in stepping back from what doesn’t feel good, not in trying to get someone to do something. So I said, “That’s fine, I don’t mine paying my own way. But I only date guys who have their abundance issues handled … so this will be purely platonic.” It sent such a powerful message to the Universe that before that guy even showed up, three other guys in my social circle magically appeared and joined me at the bar. I spent the rest of the evening with them, and they very chivalrously picked up the tab.

    On another topic, from my time spent hanging out with the pickup artists, I am very struck by something that seems to have equal applicability to women. The guys who are in successful LTRs all say the same thing — if the relationship ended tomorrow, they’d be sad but they’d just go right back out and start gaming girls again. I think keeping that attitude *permanently* is the key to a truly amazing LTR. As soon as either partner gets dependent on the other for his or her happiness, the relationship seems to go awry. Which is part of why I love Rori’s “Circular Dating” ideas. When women passionately circular date, we finally realize at the deepest possible level, that there are so many amazing men out there … why would we ever get clingy with any particular guy….?

    Erika (www.awakeningfromthedream.blogspot.com)

  26.  #26Lee on November 23, 2008 at 11:00 am

    Hi Rori,

    You posted a response to me on Nov 21 in which you said: “The whole concept of being an “Invitation” – this is in Commitment Blueprint – and then the whole Modern Siren program is about this way of attracting a man deeply -”

    I am wondering if these programs are what I need most now? Or would your Reconnect program be better? Since I am still married (separated), and given the strange history I had (described in my post of Nov 20), I am wondering which program has the most important tools for me right now. I think I need to do two things — one is to be able to melt and accept him when or if he does come to me ; and second is to somehow create a vibe that actually gets him interested in me romantically once again. Maybe the second is actually the most important thing right now since he is so stuck on his idea of being only friends right now. (And feels guilty about leaving me as opposed to excited to be with me.)


  27.  #27alias girl on November 23, 2008 at 11:32 am

    great imagery caj 13! i love it!.i really do want that kind of romance.

    yes, erika. thanks. great example of using laguage to convey your boundaries and desires. i want to get better at that. i am going to sit down with my notebook and do a mental do over on a couple of conversations/ situations and see what i might have done differently.

  28.  #28Bethany on November 23, 2008 at 11:56 am

    I feel soooo confused…my guy seems to be into me, but he DOESN’T WANT TO HAVE SEX with me. We were fooling around this morning and then he said he isn’t ready for our relationship to change and that he doesn’t want to do something we would regret later. I said that I understood but that I felt confused in my body and that it felt like rejection to me. He said he didn’t want to reject me, and he said “I don’t know what to say…but I like you.” I said that felt good. He said it’s good we’re talking and then I said (BIG MISTAKE) that I don’t want it to be this thing where we have to sit down and talk about it and that if it happens it happens. God. I just shut down the communication. Wow. But I guess maybe it means he likes me and wants to fool around, but he doesn’t LOVE me yet. But I feel in love with him. I wouldn’t be open to having sex if I wasn’t. This feels backwards. I want to feel like he’s AFTER ME and what I have, not the other way around! I feel sooooooo hurt and angry and disappointed and scared and embarrassed. I don’t understand!!!! I don’t understand!!!! I feel like I’ve totally fucked it all up by shutting down the communication. I love my bad feelings. They all hurt me so much but I love them. I love that they make me shake and cry. I love that I can feel so intensely. I just wish it was an intense good feeling that I could share in a complete way with my man. But he doesn’t want me. Or, he says he wants me, but in his gut he doesn’t love me. Because I don’t love myself. And I want to love myself, goddamnit. I want to feel like I am right and absolutely wonderful and that HE IS THE LUCKY ONE to have me. He’s also Catholic, and I think this may have something to do with it–does anybody here have any perspective on that?

  29.  #29alias girl on November 23, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    bethany that sounds like a very painful situation for you. here’s my thoughts:

    1) he’s gay
    2) he had some early childhood trauma that he has not reolved
    3) he doesn’t want a romantic relationship with you
    4) he’s sleeping with someone else and knows how muvh you like him and doesn’t want to hurt you.


    i forget your exact history with this man so maybe it has to do with that. like reshi’s situation where they are trying to gain trust back.

    i am completely outside your situation though so my thoughts may be completely nonsense in relation to it.

  30.  #30alias girl on November 23, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    so i’ve been thinking about what you said caj 13 and i still think it is very good and helpful but what came up for me my current response is i thought men were not good at picking up Hints. i know it would be completely repulsive to give a man a To do list like you said but isn’t there a better way. ah it just came to me just as i was writing this. perhaps if the man was TRULY trying to win me over and claim me and make me his own he might ask what i like or pay attention and Try. i am in old behavior trying to make the man who wants sex only to become romantic towards me. i’m not sure but i bet that’s it. 🙁 i’m not sure though. it’s not like he’s buying bouquets of flowers for other girls. 🙁 but maybe he would if he wanted to make her his own.:( ok. whatever. i don’t want a relationship with no romance so it’s not a good fit anyway. silly to get sad about it. i feel sad though. i do feel sad. it feels like a sad turned down mouth and watery eyes. i feel scared of letting someone close and sad if they go away. i feel impossible to please. i feel self sabatoging and feel afraid that will keep me alone forever and THATS NOT WHAT I WANT. i was so busy this week i did not make special plans for myself but that’s ok. i am just learning. my life is already 100% better than it was before i started practicing rori’s tools. it is quite exciting to imagine and see how much better it can get still. 🙂

  31.  #31Linda on November 23, 2008 at 8:11 pm

    Going from passionate to friendly. yeh, done that. going from friendly to dropping off the face of the earth. ouch. I hate that I am so obsessed attached to him. I hate that my friends say he was so passive aggressive. I hate that they are right, but it’s the holidays, not something I usually care about. but we’ve known each other since childhood and when we reconnected lst year, we reconnected with a small group of friends from our childhood, everyone comes to my house. his absence is painfully clear to me now. I know I should stay away. I am trying hard to date with little satisfaction, though times when I can get it together to use Rori’s tools, reactions have been outstsanding. I foolheartedly sent a blip with a link to a happy song along with a change of email address to him and everyone on my email list. I heard from people that have been MIA for months, years. But not him. Listening to all Rori’s programs. They are starting to make me depressed. I hate I am such a victim. But I love I can see that now. PS how can I invite someone who is not there?attract someone who is not there? I know his message is loud and clear. I just don’t like it. can’t bring myself to accept it. I feel insignificant.

  32.  #32Caj13 on November 24, 2008 at 5:01 am

    My psychologist friend once said to me, as I was going on and on as usual ‘trying to figure things out’: ‘Sometimes, Understanding is the booby prize’.

    That struck and bamboozled me, then I remembered how Rori encourages us to get out of our heads. Staying there, using only our intellect and analyzing to understand, just won’t get us where we want to be. Part of my resistance to this idea of ‘understanding’ as un-useful, was that the word also means empathizing, sympathizing. And that is just what we are being encouraged to do: empathize (feel with), sympathize (feel for) ourselves, our whole emotional and physical selves.

    Obsessive ‘understanding”/figuring things out in our mind will just keep us stuck. ‘Having understanding’/compassion for our hurt, angry, depressed, desirous, joyful selves is the path to both receiving what we need and being able to SHARE our love, to everyone’s benefit including our own, and not give/throw it away to our detriment and no one else’s true benefit.

    Alias Girl – so glad to see you reworking /rewording things till they fit you. that’s the way to go: saying out loud or writing down the different things as they come up is one of the main ways the feminine brain functions to determine what the truth is for us. Guys often take this for “changing our minds all the time”. It’s nature’s way for us, so be it.

    And as I re-read, embroidered to myself on what I wrote about romantic for you, I realized “Hey, me too!” I love it when going to a restaurant is a delicious and esthetic experience. That I already knew, but haven’t been able to insist on. So I’m refining with “don’t wants”. I don’t want to go out just anywhere to ingest food. I don’t want to stay in and fix it myself to have something decent to eat (this is what happens too often, and guess what? NO reciprocation, but the one-way habit gets installed).

  33.  #33alias girl on November 24, 2008 at 11:56 am

    i re listened to Rori’s Heart Connection Toolkit last night. it was really good. even better than the first time.i realize how often i am in man mode and i feel like i have to be in order to survive on my own. but still maybe not as much as i am. i think i can ease off on my manliness and the house won’t burn donw.

    i don’t make odd demands from my girlfriends. i just accept what happens betwteen us. although i don’t really have close girlfriends. but it seems odd that i would make such demands for happiness from my significant other. so i feel confused. if i’m the one who wants romance i wish i could just be a man and say I’d like to do this what do you think? i’d like to go ride the gondolas before our trip ends. what do you think? i feel confused. i don’t feel satisfied with trying to drop hints and shadow dance around things i want. i feel confused. i definitely don’t want to make demands. and i don’t want to make it a Don’t Want guessing game until he hits on gondolas.


  34.  #34Linda on November 24, 2008 at 12:07 pm

    Not sure if this is the right place to post this..

    last night I made a horrific discovery. I had ordered Rori’s Toxic Man series several weeks ago and just got around to consiering it. Well, i made the 800 phone call. I went through the workbook without evenlistening to the CD’s, I was so tired. My guy topped out as completely toxic. I am so mad at myself that I didn’t assess this on my own. I am so happy with myself that a bell just rung in my head. I am even madder that I am still wondering what I could have done to turn it around, when he doesn’t even call any more. Furious I still want to. I am pleased with myself I am finally thinking, feeling my way through this and hopefully ending this obsession. Thanks, Rori.

  35.  #35Reshi on November 24, 2008 at 4:14 pm

    Alias Girl, I think you can say “I’d like to ride the gondolas, what do you think?” Men do appreciate direct communication when it comes to what we want and how they can make us happy. If I recall correctly Rori’s ebook said that you can express either a Want or a Don’t Want, but that sometimes a man has trouble hearing a Want because he thinks he’s being criticized.

  36.  #36alias girl on November 24, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    thanks reshi. maybe i will re read the ebook tonight. bc i really want to find the best solution which allows the man to give WHAT HE WANTS freely and also for me to get my desires for romance met without making him feel like it’s not a gift or as if i am running the show. my man traits kind of do want to contribute to helping to run the show though. i don’t need or desire to be the leader or the one in charge but i would like to have a voice and express my likes and dislikes. maybe that’s part of it. using the word like. ie. i like flowers.

  37.  #37sifsgoldwig on November 24, 2008 at 10:44 pm

    Some points in this article really hit home with me. Especially the phrase in Rori’s comment about it being hard to distinguish a guy who really likes you and is attracted to you from a guy who loves you. My first real (but as it turned out, rather brief) relationship ending after a few months with the guy, in an admittedly respectful and decent way, breaking up with me because we “were in different places emotionally.” I had somewhat naively told him I loved him a couple of weeks before. We had a long distance relationship that relied largely on phone calls and text messages since we could only arrange to see each other every other week. The confusing part about this whole situation is that, in the beginning, it felt like he was more deeply involved in the relationship than I was. He called me almost every night, he texted me jokes or just to ask how my day went, he wanted me to meet his parents just a few weeks after we started dating, etc. Then, seemingly at the precise moment I felt like I could trust his feelings for me and open up with him, he told me it was over. He said that he didn’t feel the same way for me and felt he couldn’t reciprocate my feelings. Even now, with a little distance (a month and a half) his reasons seem unreal. He said there wasn’t anyone else and I have no cause to doubt him, but for him to expect me to believe that I basically misunderstood everything he did or said to me is harsh. I feel like he did everything he could to make me fall in love with him and then the minute I expressed the feeling, he says he doesn’t share it. This situation has been hard for several reasons, one of which is the fact that he is essentially a nice guy and I still want him back. He did contact me less than a week after breaking up to tell me some emotionally difficult news (a family pet had died,) but ignored my subsequent attempts to offer him friendship and compassion. Since then I emailed him to gain clarification on some points, a step I considered necessary at the time, and he answered with respect, but recommended distance for the time being. That was a month ago and I haven’t heard from him since. I don’t know if I should hold on to hope and try to see if it’s possible for him to come back to me or simply move on. The worst of it is that I only discovered Rori’s relationship program after he broke up with me. I see now the mistakes I (unwittingly) made, but think that it’s unfair to be punished for acting the way I felt and doing the only things I knew how to do. I didn’t lie, cheat on, pick fights with, criticize, or manipulate this man. All I did was tell him how I felt and for that reason, I lost him.

  38.  #38Bonnie Zee on December 3, 2008 at 11:11 pm


    Thanks for your posting Rori.

    Gals, I have to say how long and hard I used to fight for the wrong guy. I didn’t know I was fighting (against myself mostly) until a good guy walked into my life. The right guy feels effortless. Effortless was a word I never knew about until I have been having an experience of it whenever we communicate or see each other for 2 1/2 mos. now.

    He tells me he loves me everyday. Sends me amazing text messages like (OMG, I can’t stop thinking about you. I feel like I have received the most amazing gift.) So how did this happen?

    1. Feeling messages. What did I say to that text message above? “That feels wonderful.” That’s it. No paragraphs of words, just simplicity, easy.

    2. Freedom freedom – that’s what I gave him. Meaning, I made no demands, I didn’t call him, I didn’t text unless he texted me first.

    3. I kept myself in check – gals, this is one GORGEOUS guy. Straight out of whatever magazine you want to choose – so he has alot of options – and Rori’s techniques worked completely, but I couldn’t allow myself to get all sappy. When I felt like a puppy dog and wanted him, I did the opposite, I pulled back. What does pull back mean? It means, when he texts me I don’t respond in 30 seconds, I wait 15 min. It means the first time he asked me on a date (that same day) I said I wasn’t available until 2 days later (yes, that was almsot impossible to do but I did it), it means I use I feel messages all the time and continue to do so. And I’m not perfect. Sometimes I still offer information. Rori suggests not to offer information, and when I catch myself, I just make sure to keep it to simple I feel messags for a while after that.

    And when I look back at all the wrong guys I tried to convince to like me love me, what a waste of my time. When it’s right, it’s effortless, all by itself. When it’s wrong, it’s hard and heartbreaking. Meanwhile, I’m still dating, until I hear the marry me words……

  39.  #39Rori Raye on December 4, 2008 at 11:49 am

    Bonnie, Welcome here, I hope you’ll keep commenting and letting us know how this great experience with Mr. Gorgeous feels – and your specific steps are very, very helpful and encouraging. You ROCK!! You’re just a goddess head-to-toe, inside-and-out. Love, Rori