If He’s Gone From Friend To Lover And Now He’s Confused

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Here’s a letter from Sheri – and as I read it I nearly jumped out of my chair in recognition of how I’ve done in my own life exactly what Sheri’s doing, and then started pounding the keyboard with frustration – for her, for me in the past, and for any of you who are stuck like Sheri – looking at your situation in this narrow, self-defeating way:

“Dear Rori, My situation is one I am sure you are familiar hearing of…I met a man who was a friend of mine at first, for a short period…we then led into something romantic…over the last 2 and a half months, I’ve felt excited, loved, cared for and have fallen in love with someone who makes me smile.

Yet, on his end, it’s been a constant back and forth battle. He cares for me and loves being with me but, one minute wants to continue trying and the next decides he “just can’t do it.” Through his back and forth-ness, I’ve been supportive and patient.

I’ve insisted on just taking things day by day, naturally, to see where they would lead on their own…yet, even through that, we start getting close again and he finds some way to ensure it stops there.

He’s stated he’s not ready for something serious. I’m frustrated because I’ve been patient and have never said “I want a commitment now!” but I know he knows I care and have kept an open mind. He and I would talk 4 times a day, get together once/twice a week and over the weekends, and have had heart to hearts about where he stands on more than one occasion he has initiated – I’ve never pushed and yet, here I am feeling hurt and disappointed because he shows every sign of wanting to make this work but then focuses on cutting it off when we start getting close.

When we are together the connection is obvious – we can talk about anything and truly enjoy each other. His comments have included everything from “I never expected to feel this way for someone” to “I love being with you” to “This is all scary to me” …I know he fears commitment…I just can’t determine if I should cut him off completely, something I’ve felt might be the best thing to do.

Can you help? It’s hard for me because I love him….

Thanks in advance, Sheri

Okay, here’s my answer, and I’ll bet you already know what it is:

First – my question – Why are you “exclusive” with this man?

And then I’ll answer my own question, because there IS no answer you could possibly give that will work for you except for this one – “Whoops – Rori, thanks for reminding me – I’ll go fix that right now…” And then go out and get your dance card filled up so you have dates and more dates starting tomorrow.

You CANNOT take things “day by day” (which is the ONLY way to take ANY relationship until the ring is on your finger and the top of the wedding cake in your co-owned freezer), and still be EXCLUSIVE with a man.

It won’t work.  You’ll get crazy, just like Sheri is right here.

It is absolutely criminal for any man who “doesn’t want anything serious” to somehow have a “hold” on you – where you feel you have to either tough it out – for years and years, even, as so many of us do – or dump him and move on.

You don’t have to make that choice.  Not after only 2 months.

If he’s fun to date, then date him.  If he’s fun to sleep with, then sleep with him.  But keep some of your time and energy for the Toms, Dicks and Harrys of this world who want to spend time with you, give you affection, attention and all kinds of fun things – including, perhaps, the Happy Ever After you clearly, truly want.

If you’re EVER starting to fear that you’re “wasting your time” with a man – that’s your clue that you’re making a mistake by shutting down your options.  That’s your clue to get out there and talk to, sit down with, go out with and practice BEING with lots and lots of NEW men – and KEEP HIM in your “rotation” along for the ride!.

So, Sheri, I wish you luck – and hope you try this and let me know what happens.

Love, Rori

87 Comments

  1.  #1Maria on December 4, 2008 at 4:53 am

    After reading many many many advices from Rory, l have slowly started to turn my life ship around and l have noticed one interesting thing that ld like to grow in me until it is becoming natural, and that is – lm simply paying attention of how l feel and lm not getting interested in any man who makes me feel tiny bit uncomfortable or giving me one of those “lm not ready” messages.
    l dont know if lm in right direction on this, but pain in past has made me realize that lm just being too lazy to give my energy out for someone again, who can be sooo sexy and alluring but does not give me what l need. You become kind of immune about it. Which helps you to see, who the person truly is.
    As men mostly like to chase what they cant have, it can help me to be “unavailabe” for them and not letting myself to get hurt.
    Funnily enough, slowly l have noticed that l have quickly lost interest in men who “are just on the plate for wrong reasons”. l can conider that as a first step in the process.
    Thank you Rory for a good work.



  2.  #2Mocha on December 4, 2008 at 8:17 am

    Hello Rori,

    Here’s what confuses me you stated that “If he’s fun to date, then date him. If he’s fun to sleep with, then sleep with him. But keep some of your time and energy for the Toms, Dicks and Harrys of this world who want to spend time with you, give you affection, attention and all kinds of fun things – including, perhaps, the Happy Ever After you clearly, truly want.” How really is this possible and not feel that we have to make a choice to dump him if we have strong feelings for this man and want to be exclusive with him and he tells us that he’s not ready or shows signs of not wanting what we want?



  3.  #3Bethany on December 4, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    This is so right on. Girlfriend makes you crazy…one day at a time makes you crazy…I feel sooooooo ashamed. I feel sooooooo much fear it’s making me sick to my stomach. I can’t stop breathing hard…I’m having a panic attack, I think. I feel like everyone can feel my panicky vibe and especially my guy…how can I stop it? I can’t. What if I can’t do the circular dating? You can’t do it unless men ask you out and men don’t ask me out. I try hard all the time to smile and lean back, but it’s like I’m invisible. I feel like my fear is pushing him away, I don’t know what else it could be unless it’s me…god, why do I put myself in these situations? This is the worst possible scenario, staying here after December graduation when I don’t know what he thinks about me, or I did know, but what if it’s changed? I feel scared of him changing his mind all of a sudden. I’m not being myself. I’m clamming up and getting shyer and shyer and that is terrible. No one likes shy girls. I feel soooo bad right now, I just ate some raw almonds and it feels good to eat healthy food. I must have a tiny shred of self-esteem if I care enough to eat healthy things. I feel sooooo crazy. I love my craziness and my panic. I love that I am absolutely nuts. I love my fear, it wants me to be safe. I love my shaking stomach, I love the stinging tears, I am not in danger, I am simply having a trauma response. Everything triggers me. Everything. When he pulls back, it makes me pull back. I feel soooo unsure and I don’t know what to do. I am trying to tell the truth. Radical honesty. I can’t do anything. Just be. Just breathe. Just breathe. Just breathe. I have a narrow vision of what it means to be successful in relationships. I feel like if he’s not coming towards me all the time, smiling, wanting to get close and touch me, then there’s something wrong. But I don’t feel relaxed. I feel like I’m hiding myself because I’m afraid that something terrible will happen if I don’t protect my true self. But then something terrible does happen because I become stiff and uncomfortable and boring. I am boring. I accept it. I can’t stop this. I can’t do anything differently. I will always be this shaking, trembling girl and I’ll never move beyond it. I can’t. This is too hard. I feel like ending things so I can just feel all the pain and then move back home and live with my parents. But I really want something good! Deep down I want something secure and loving and this is NOT how I should feel in a relationship! But IT”S MY FAULT! I keep pushing him away when he comes near me because I’m sooooo SCARED!!!! I am soooooooo ANGRY!!!!! He suggested we do something with my friend and I shot him down. What is wrong with me? I didn’t feel all that into it, but maybe I should have just accepted and gone? I feel scared that if I go home for the night he’ll ask some other girl to go in retaliation for me going out with my guy friend last night. Although he doesn’t know I went out. I feel guilty for not telling him. But he didn’t ask. So what the hell. I don’t know. It’s only been a week of weirdness. Maybe it’s okay. Maybe I’m just hypersensitive. I can’t act on my crazy feelings. I feel like it would be great to go home and take some things out of my room, see my dogs, my grandparents, even though my parents are out of town. Get my sewing machine. I would also feel relieved from the anxiety of having to deal with him and not knowing if he’s going to call me. But maybe I should stay. I don’t know. I feel scared that if I leave he’ll lose interest…but it would also feel good to have a weekend of no pressure time for myself. I would like that. I would go, and I would trust him. I want to go home and feel trust that he will be faithful to me. I want to go home and see my family and my pets and sleep in my bed hundreds of miles away and just decompress. I want to go and let some space exist between us, healthy space, where I’m not staying for the weekend out of FEAR OF WHAT HE MIGHT DO. That’s waaaaay too much focusing on him. Crazy thinking. So what if he is disappointed that I’m not going to be around to go to the musical? I just remembered Rori said she went away for the weekend when things were tense with her and her now husband…so if Rori can do it, I can do it too. She went for her, and I can go home for me. It would feel good. I am my own woman, and I need to take care of me. If I feel like I need and want to get out of town and AWAY from the pressures of this place, so what if my mind tells me it’s stupid, that he’ll go out with another girl, that he’ll think I don’t like him, that I’m driving a wedge between us? I’m not. I’m letting air come into the space, and I’m getting back to who I am. I am clearing the junk out of my room and bringing back the things that will excite me, like my sewing machine. I want to get some more clothes and comforts of home to move into my soon to be new place with my friend. I feel excited about that! This town can be MY place, it doesn’t belong to him exclusively. I can get some paper writing done in the peace and quiet, and I can snuggle with my cat and dogs, have dinner with my grandparents…I don’t know. I still feel scared.



  4.  #4Cassandra on December 4, 2008 at 1:56 pm

    Rori…this actually brings up an interesting question for me. With all that has been going on lately just in the last 2 days I have received calls from 2 different men from my past. I have not intiated any type of contact whatsoever and have not even thought of them in years. All of a sudden out of the blue they called me. What I find confusing is that one of them told me that he had been feeling that something was wrong and that he needed to check on me..WHOA! What is up with that?! How could he have known about these recent health issues??? Kind of scary. That man is someone that I nearly married several years ago so we were obviously quite close at one point in time. He also mentioned that he has never stopped loving me and is still IN LOVE with me. When I told him about the cancer HE actually began to weep which shocked me (In a good way though that he allowed himself to feel something) he also told me that he wishes I was back there in the city that I moved from so that he could be there and take care of me and then mentioned that he wants to move me back there so that HE can take care of me and give me the things that he should have back when we were together! WHOA again….what the heck is all of this about?!! I have been thinking alot about this and why it took place and what it all means which I shouldn’t be doing I know…I should just be feeling it all and paying attention to how I feel but I can’t help wondering what this is all about. This man is in a place in his life where he wants to be married (he said that he wants us to be married as we should have been when we were together) and once I am cancer free that he would want us to start to try to have a baby once we know for sure that I am cancer free. He said that HE wants to give me what it is that I have wanted my entire life in having a child and he said that he wants to make that dream come true for me and enjoy spending our lives together as a family. (I keep reminding myself that these are just words which don’t mean a thing without the action to back them up!) This has come out of LEFT FIELD and I am honestly not sure what to think. It has made me really think about things. I love Charles so much and feel that he is my best friend in so many ways BUT you know what he has done…..how he has played GOD with my life and even about all of the lies and betrayal but then again lately things have been great. Charles still says that we will get married…ONE DAY but he can’t tell me when that will be, he still wants me to move out as soon as I am free of this cancer and have a good job so that we are not ‘living in sin’ as he puts it so that we are right spiritually but then this man from my past wants to bring me TO him whereas it seems that in a way Charles wants me AWAY from him even if it may only be for a short peroid of time. What are your thoughts on this? I don’t want to be creating something in my head that is not there but I also don’t want to waste a single minute that i have on someone who is playing games with me.
    Love and hugs to all….
    Cassandra



  5.  #5Reshi on December 4, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    Ouch, Bethany, it sounds like you’re in a very painful place, and the words you’ve written remind me of where I was when I was trying to reconnect with my husband. I felt like I was always trying hard to smile and lean back, but I was still invisible to him and others. I’d get into myself and Paint Myself and he’d lean further away, and my online manwhores were keeping their distance too except for one annoying one. And I’m in a panic about Circular Dating too because men aren’t asking me out either…then again, men don’t know I exist, I’m not going where they are.

    I wonder if I should even be on this blog right now because I’m very uninterested in men at the moment…but I know that I do want to love again in the future, and I have a fairly good idea of how I want that to feel.

    And let me take a detour from the subject and tell a story about how we create our lives subconsciously. I used to write stories all the time about fictional characters when I was younger. Looking back now, I can see with clarity how the stories actually played out in my life. It was always about a girl who lived in this awful, abusive situation. And then she found love and was rescued. And then the man turned mean, turned into a machine, or simply died, thus causing our heroine a great deal of pain. She then lived the rest of her life alone, or alone raising their child, or she simply died with him.

    It was all about finding love and losing it. For some reason that idea captured my heart as a young woman. But now that I realize that this idea may make a good story, but does not make for satisfying real-world creations. So I’ve rewritten the ending to be more like this:

    After the heartbreak is over, Reshi goes back to the island she was born on to be alone–yet she is not alone. She lives and raises her daughter in the community that had always supported her, and then from out of the blue, a man comes into the picture, and begins to hover around her. She leans back and welcomes him in, she does not grab on to him or try to get him…and then eventually it happens that he falls completely for her, he becomes completely driven by his love for her. And she allows him to step up and claim her and they grow old together and have 7 or 8 more children. 😀

    That’s my intention for future love. Now why the hell was this relevant to the discussion…oh yes. It’s about picturing your own Happily Ever After, no matter what that looks like. Your current boyfriend may or may not be a part of that and you won’t know until he shows you.

    I think it’s a great idea for you to get away, let some air back into the space, and turn your focus back to you. And at the same time I know how hard it is to do that. I had to have my husband tear out my heart, stomp on it, and then throw it under a bus before I could really get my focus off of him and onto myself. I hope you are able to do it with less heartbreak.



  6.  #6Reshi on December 4, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    Cassandra, WHOA! That’s amazing the way things have been turning around between you and men, and I can see how that could be wonderful and terrifying.
    I’m not Rori but from where I stand, it looks like you’re standing in the field of infinite possibilities. And you don’t have to make a decision right away, I’d think you could feel your way through it and come to something that feels right deep within YOU. My $.02, of course, is that perhaps Charles was only meant to PREPARE you for real love, and not to be the one who provides it. I have a friend who had a similar situation, health problems, living with a man who she was kind of engaged to but he was withdrawing…and what you’ve written reminds me of her. She’s now with an amazing man halfway across the country who is giving her everything and inspiring her in a hundred different ways.



  7.  #7Cassandra on December 4, 2008 at 2:32 pm

    Reshi…I love the new ending of your story!!! It’s beautiful and I want that for you too!!!:-)
    Love, Cassandra



  8.  #8Daria on December 4, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    Dear Cassandra,

    I feel so happy for you!!!! YAY! I can imagine I Would feel so thrilled if a man from the past I cared about enough to almost married called and said some things like that! So I am feeling happy for you! I want it will be a great boost to your confidence!

    I don’t feel safe about Charles at all. What he said about the internet thing sounds like an excuse to me and feels untrue. Also he can marry you Right now instead of moving you out first. I feel so sad thinking that he would DARE ask you to move out! But I am not in there and do not know exactly what is going on. It is YOU who has to follow your feelings however. And it seems like you are doing GREAT.

    Also cervical cancer like you said has a very high cure rate. You can even look into some natural options like herbs and traditional medicine because it can cure itself many times, in case surgery is not what you want (that is if it might threaten your ability to have kids). I wish you the best and even through this time YOU ARE SO BRAVE!!! What’s coming out is new hope and love and embracing change and I feel like crying I Am so happy for you!



  9.  #9Daria on December 4, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    Dear Cassandra,

    I just reread my post and realized I meant to write. I don’t feel safe about Charles completely. I didn’t mean to write At All which is different. I want you to have hope and I want you to have the man I want and I don’t want you to be scared because everything can be what you want it to!

    Also I wanted to say that I know you will be ok and cure the cancer, just like you said you know you will!

    Love, Daria



  10.  #10Cassandra on December 4, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    Reshi…Your post showed up for me after I sent you my last one so Thanks for your last post. 🙂
    It is kind of interesting isn’t it? I really don’t FEEl that I am in that wonderful place where I REALLY love everything about ME or that I have ‘arrived’ so to speak but I do feel better than I have in a while. It’s intersting that with Charles I have really been able to focus on ME and doing my own thing and he has been spending alot more time with me than he used to and he has even been sharing things with me like he used to before I moved here. It really is as though I have the man that I fell in love with back and that awful one that hurts me all the time has gone back to the dark place that he came from which is awesome! Charles just left to go and check on the truck and even CAME TO ME to give me a kiss before he left!!! That is a miracle in itself. Part of me wonders if he feels bad or guilty about this whole cancer thing. I don’t want to be his pity case. This all started BEFORE we found out about the cancer though so I dont think that is it. The things with the men from my past though just blows my mind. The man that I mentioned in the post above is definitely someone that was very very special to me. He also did some stupid things when we were together BUT he had also gone through some tough life things in his own life while we were together and I think it was too much for him at the time…..that does not excuse it though and that was why I left. I find it so curious that he called the other day and said all of the things that he did. It is confusing to me I suppose in a good way. I love how you said that you see it as I am standing in front of infinite possibilities…I love that as I had not seen that before you mentioned it. YAY!! 🙂 You know ….today I am not the least bit afraid of this cancer thing in that I know I will beat it but I am SO afraid of wasting time…I suppose the cancer issue brought that out which can be a good thing.



  11.  #11Cassandra on December 4, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    Daria…I just got your posts too! I cried when I read your post. You guys are such a blessing to me. I am so so thankful for each of you and to be a part of such a beautiful and special place. I really do love you guys.

    You know what you said about not feeling completely safe about Charles? Well my old pastor once told me that when you are questioning something that often times the very FIRST thing that comes to your mind/ heart is most often times actually GOD telling you what to do or not do or giving you the info that you need to make a decision aout something or someone. That has always stayed with me for some reason and what you said about what Charles said about the website being an excuse was the first thing that came to my mind and heart when he said it. Not only that but over Thanksgiving weekend when we connected as we did, I asked him to delete his account on that site and he said that he would take care of it but he has not done so. he hos not been back onit but he has also not deleted it as I asked him to. I know he has alot on his mind but that sticks with me somehow. I admit that I am totally with YOU in that I don’t feel totally completely safe emotionally with him again yet but I do feel it coming closer. The man that said all of those wonderful things is a good man but he also hurt me pretty deeply so I am pretty standoffish about him as well BUT I also know that he is in a totally diffferent place in his life now. He used to call me his ‘Best reward’ because somewhere in the book of Ephesians there is a scripture where it says that a man’s greatest gift – his Best Reward – is the wife that God gives him. He still even called me that the other night when we talked and of course it made me cry. He has also called to check on me every single day since then and wants me to call him immediately after the biopsy tomorrow. Charles hasn’t really brought it up. Thanks for your well wishes and confidence that i will beat this thing…somehow I know I will too and perhaps I can help someone else down the road.
    With so much love and that beautiful flower hug you mentioned!!
    –Cassandra



  12.  #12Caj13 on December 4, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    Cassandra, How amazing! and at the same time it doesn’t surprise me. You see just how really powerful you are? Synchronicity in the universe, for you, because of you – this was no coincidence. It’s like a custom-made version of circular-dating delivered through your phone line in accordance with your current circumstances: it’s filling you with great feelings and showing you that you will always have a CHOICE, and that choice is always yours.

    No matter what you eventually decide, it’s so wonderful to have this experience, to hear the words you’ve always wanted to hear. And of course you must think about all this – don’t feel bad about that – there are all kinds of aspects that require that kind of energy. But now you know not to get stuck on that level. You will also get way down into your feelings (and soaring way over the mountaintops, too) so that your decision will be truly informed, drawing on your life forces as well as your intellect and experience.

    You have just so much going on right now, it must feel like a roller-coaster going the speed of light!!, and time seem as skewed as the little wagon’s zigzag course.! Hang on hard, hug yourself tenderly. I’m keeping my fingers crossed. xoxo

    Mocha- Go back through Rori’s earlier posts about circular dating. She really explains the hows and whys. Because seeing and interacting with other men is in YOUR interest (and ultimately the interest of the one among them that will commit to you – because if that’s not your steady guy – you have to give his chance to the one who will). Because men and women are different. If men want to circular date, they just do – they don’t ask, call it that, theorize about it or feel bad about it. If they choose to be exclusive but still avoid commitment, it’s because that’s how they prefer things (because in fact, it’s more practical for most of them and they get their cake and eat it too. It’s not because it’s imposed on them or because they’re afraid to lose anyone, which is what happens to us when we get in the “girlfriend trap”.

    Bethany – sounds to me like you’re getting it: Sure, he proposed the musical, but it was a threesome, not a real date. That didn’t quite sit with you, so you stepped away. He followed you. Perfect! Not every second of every exchange is going to feel “good” (especially if you’re still beating yourself up, but as I’m a champion self-flagellant, well…we’re still learning, right?). Voilà, you can go pamper yourself this weekend just as you’ve been feeling like doing. (Don’t forget, too, your guy won’t always know how to react immediately – his testing is probably as unconscious as ours, if not more. Sometimes, he’ll have to feel your absence or indifference at a moment when he’s wanting to be with you in order to realize he has to do something to make that happen (not following through making it a real invitation is his problem .)



  13.  #13Daria on December 4, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    Reshi I too have the “dying for love” story. For some reason it captured me and any songs about losing love or unrequited love have made me want cry desperately since I was young, to the point that I wouldn’t listen to them. That’s why Rori’s story about dreaming of a guy she had in the past made me feel all desperate and crying and heartbroken. I can imagine someone living their whole life dreaming of something they can’t have, because he left them, or died, as they fade away and die of sadness. I also remember fairy tales about this. (Like the original Christian Andersen’s Little Mermaid, among others… she leaves the sea, loses her voice, he leaves her for another woman, she stabs him on a ship and then dies too because she only had until dawn to live, or the Mists of Avalon, a more recent book by Marion Zimmerman Bradley, where the young Morgaine falls in love with Galahad, then just a little later he goes on to fall for the Queen Guinevere, and she has to stick around and be loyal to both of them, be his friend while he pines away for someone He can’t really have, while her whole life she is continuing to be in love with him… ok I feel like crying now just remembering this story…. that feels so sad to me!!!! WAAAAH!!! lol that felt funny to write Wah and I am similing again) WELL!! I want to rewrite that story too! I just want to know how or why and why is hitting me so strongly and is it even ok to rewrite it?? UFFF… I feel I got caught in it again…

    I feel a little sad and tense in my right cheek… what I wanted to share was a happy thing, and now I feel more smily…

    So in the spirit of going for what I want… being free rockstarish and vulnerable by exposing my desires, especially the ones I hide…
    I called up the guy I like and after talking to him about some business stuff regarding stuff he has to do regarding the favor I did him… Then… … … I was going to tell him I want to be his girlfriend, but for some reason I didn’t feel like saying that… so what came up for me was saying I feel like starting to have sex with you again!! Lol… I first got scared and made some small talk about who I ran into yesterday… then, I SAID IT!!! I felt happy to say it and I didn’t sound sad or desperate, because I didn’t feel it! I said mmm… umm… I feel like starting to have sex with you again!! LOL I feel all smily thinking about it! And he said hmm… sounding pleased… where did this come from… and I said… it just popped into my head… (lol I feel like a dork and I feel happy)… he said that’s the kind of thing you say in person… and I said, yeah but I feel good taht I said it now… he said why do you want that… I said, because I feel like having sex, and I like you , and I know it will feel good… I was feeling nervous lol… and I said… what do you think… he said that’s the kind of thing you say in person (sounding a little suggestive) or act on it… so I said so you think I should tell u in person (suggestive)… lol… and he said yeah … lol… I said hehe ok I feel weird now… hehe… pause… I will talk to you later (running away style) … and he said hehe ok bye…

    LOL – I feel all giddy and smily… Umm… I’m not sure how that was for style but I feel good! I’m so glad I revealed a desire!!

    Any tweaks!!!???? PLEASE!!!???? hehe… feeling smily!!!



  14.  #14Cassandra on December 4, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    Caj…Thanks for your post and encouragement! I so did not see this coming at all..none of it. I do feel for the first time in a VERY VERY long time that I may have choices. The thing is is that I have made so many bad decisions when it comes to love and relationships I really don’t trust myself to make a decision at all so I stay put which can be goo din some ways but not good in others. You are right though..I don’thave to decide anything right now. I do feel guilty though thinking about another man the way that I have been thinking about…I will call him Mr. Past. He caught me totally off guard to the degree that I have been finding myself wanting to hear his voice or know how things would have been if we had stayed together. I don’t want to feel that way as I am committed to Charles and do love him and want things to work out with us…even though he told me that we are not having children…no discussion whatsoever….Oh…by the way..we aren’t having kids once we get married. That made me feel as though I didn’t even matter. Mr. Past has indeed said all of the right things and made my heart flutter again but I am here..with Charles and committed to him and the hope of things working out with him. I have to remember that in the beginning Charles said all of the right things too.

    You are right though in that things are a little overwhelming right now….my head is definitely spinning but at least most of it is in a good way. Mr Past also told me though that if I just say the word, he will come and get me and my things and take me back home with him….that makes me feel like the princess in the tower being rescued by her prince charming….for real. I don’t want to be dependent on anyone again not after all of this. I want to be wherever I end up because that is REALLy where I want to be and not because of some circumstance. I admit though that it is tempting in some ways in that he is offering me EVERYTHING that I have wanted my entire life. That is nothing to sneeze at. I might add that while we were together we found out that we were going to have a baby (this was sevral years ago) but I had a horrific miscarriage at 2 days short of the 6 month mark which shattered our lives at that time. So many people would not blink at having a child with someone else but to me that is as close as you can possibly be to another human being other than being a parent so we have indeed shared quite a bit and will be connected to some degree for the rest of our lives. OK…..I am now crying even thinking about that time…about all that we went through together. I feel angry right now…how dare he come back into my life and disrupt everything even though things were just getting back to being smooth after a bit of roughness…how dare he confuse me like this. OY VAY!! I ended up leaving because he became emotionally abusive toward me after the loss of our baby but I also realize that after going thru something like that alot of people ‘lose it’ and some never recover. I am happy to have choices and yes….having mr past contact me has indeed upped my esteem.

    Daria….this is just my 2 cents but if it felt good to YOU to tell your man that you want to have sex with him again then that is all that matters! It is about you Sweetie!!! I am proud of you for stepping out there…..remember this is all a learning process..every step of the way.
    Love you guys…
    Cassandra
    I am so sorry that every post I write is like a novel. Working on that! 🙂



  15.  #15Daria on December 4, 2008 at 4:15 pm

    Cassandra I love your novel!!

    ok it seems both of us are being hit with the “bounce down…” syndrome… where we are getting so much good stuff that we go up our ladder and then our usual status quo keeper tries to bounce us down!

    For me I felt ecstatic to speak so freely and not feel rejected!

    Then I started thinking about other guys, and how I am also interested in (sex) with them (feels embarassing to say this)… and how if I do have sex with this guy then I might feel weird if I want to with the other guys because I will feel dirty gross disgusting guilty … then I keep on thinging about these other guys… also I am feeling worried that having sex with this guy will hurt me down the line, that I might feel rejected in the future, because maybe I want a relationship with him… although I am not sure I really want a relationship because I still am thinking about sex with these other guys… AAAAH… grrr BERRR… it feels annoying to be frustrated from my “big achievement” although I feel embarassed calling it that because I wonder if I got it through masculine energy and setting myself up for heartbreak…

    and now I don’t even know if I want sex anymore because my self esteem feels boosted, I don’t feel the “urge” or whatever…although it feels nice… I feel torn and I love myself… I want to love myself… I want Rori to approve of me and my actions!!! I feel inadequate I am so unsure of myself but if Rori or someone I trust approves of me it’s like I go to 7th heaven of joy and happiness… I want to be my own Rori (although I would love it if the real Rori would help me with this). I don’t want to bounce down. I do want to have sex. I don’t want to feel inadequate. I don’t want to feel vulnerable (hmm… wheres that coming from). I don’t want to feel torn between men. I feel confused. I feel scared. I love my feelings. I love how they want to protect me. I do want to be the most wanted girl in my book and have every man I decide to desire, even if he has baggage, a girlfriend (that he is going to dump for me – sounds evil feeling guilty gross selfish), or kids, but not if he is married I am glad I feel secure that I draw that line and he would have to divorce first. Something came up to me, its kind of like a road to the happy ever after… it goes kind of like this:

    If I like a man…
    I’m going to want to start being “physical” with him… and after awhile (which could vary from a few seconds to years) if I like him still…
    I will want to have sex with him…
    then if I like him still I will want to have a relationship with him…
    then if I like him still…
    I will want to be with him forever (marriage)…
    then if I like him still…
    I will want to have his children…
    then if I like him still…
    I will want him to make the most out of his potential… then if I like him still…
    I will want him to help me make the most of my potential…
    then if I like him still…
    I will want both of us to make the most of our potential together (save the world, or other amaizing things).

    ok what do you guys think? this came to me the other day… and it’s weird because before I had kind of a gray cloud after step 3, but now it just came to me this way, that this is what I want… sometimes the in between periods are long, sometimes very short…

    So the thing is… should I stay open to guys I like? Or should I be able to picture it to the very end before we start on the road? In the past once they jump on the road with me I feel “invested” and want them to stay on it… but I think this is my bridge to happily ever after? What do you guys think?



  16.  #16Jon on December 4, 2008 at 4:56 pm

    Reading the whirlwind of emotion that women are feeling…I thought I’d comment from a mans perspective.

    To me – it seems as though the primary problems are coming from 2 issues. One, the man isn’t clear on what he wants. And 2, if the woman doesn’t abide by what the man wants, he cares.

    Everything seems to magically work itself out when the man says: “I want this, and this, and this – now let me get to know you and know if you are it, and if you are, there’s no more questions to ask.”

    This isn’t rocket science.

    And primarily, this all comes back to being honest with yourself. How can you expect anyone to be honest with you if you’re not honest with yourself?

    A man either claims something (in this case a woman), or he doesn’t. That may sound strange coming from a man – but primarily, if a man is clear on what he wants … or simply stated: if I’m clear on what I want as a man, WHATEVER IT IS, and I’m damn honest about it, how long does it take me to evaluate whether what I want is in front of me?

    Not long. It’s not something you “do”, IT’S SOMETHING YOU ARE.

    But this requires the man to be a man and decide what he wants, and to be honest with what he wants…and then it requires the woman to be honest with him when he’s evaluating the situation and deciding whether what is in front of him is ‘Authentically what he wants’.

    I could be wrong (not likely) – but if a man is thinking “I like this girl, and I want to be with her sexually but I need to meet her a few more times to know if I want to be with her sexually or for a long time”…then a man says “I like you, and I want to be with you sexually, but I need to meet you a few more time to know if I want to be with you long term”
    A BOY (whatever the opposite of a man is) plays a bunch of games and says anything except what he’s HONEST with.

    Honesty, in my opinion, from a mans perspective, does not mean ‘not offending anyone’. It means claiming what you want and then not getting all emotional when the thing in front of you isn’t what you thought it was. You just say ‘I made a mistake, I thought you were one thing but you were another, I was wrong. Bye.’
    No harm done.

    It’s all these bullshit games in between.

    And primarily, it’s the bullshit games that set off the woman to do all this crap he “doesn’t like”.
    If the man was just honest with her and said “You know what, I’ve decided I love the way your body looks in that outfit and I want to take you home with me. I won’t be marrying you, but you’ll have the best sex of your life. Let’s go.” AT LEAST THE WOMAN KNOWS WHAT’S UP.

    As apposed to “Let me take you out for 5 months and all I wanted was sex to begin with”.

    It’s not a womans that should DIRECT anything. Ya, you can give your opinion on what you like – but a man should know what you like…namely, he likes himself more than any other person alive, and he wants you to be your full self expressively with him because he is in love with that and everything about you because you ‘fit him’ so to speak. You add to his already full life. In a sentence, he’s claimed you or chosen you. “I want you because that’s what I want. I don’t need to explain.”
    The womans is simply EXPRESSION.

    And a man who naturally fuckin’ loves you will Praise you naturally. You can tell HONEST praise from everything else. If a BOY likes something about you, he won’t tell you what’s on his mind probably. If a MAN loves your laugh, he’ll tell you. If he loves your breasts, he’ll tell you. If he loves your smile, he’ll tell you.
    You think ‘he cares what you think’? HE’S DOING IT FOR HIMSELF. AND THAT’S WHAT’S ATTRACTIVE. HE DOES WHAT HE WANTS, AND SOMETIMES – HE HAPPENS TO WANT YOU. Even if you said “Fuck you asshole.” He’d still love your smile. Cause he’s a man and claims what he wants. He doesn’t back down if he’s true to himself cause he’s #1 to himself, and that’s what you love about him. He’s #1 to himself, AND HE CLAIMED YOU.

    You: “No men exist like that”
    Well, boys don’t act like that, no. But men do.

    If you ask him: “Are you going to marry me?”
    A man says Yes, No, or Really wants to find out more about you or experience some things he needs to with you before deciding.
    A boy …pretty much does anything else.

    But it’s simply because a REAL MAN knows what he wants – so it’s easy for him to DECIDE and therefore, if he’s decided you’re what he’s looking for – it’s easy for you to fully EXPRESS who you are because HE’S DECIDED YOU ARE WHAT HE WANTS. You don’t need to “do” anything. You simply “ARE” what he wants.

    Just thought I’d throw my own thoughts into the mix – but in my opinion, it starts with the man. He has to know what he wants and be completely honest with what he wants…and then he has to not care what anyone else thinks.
    All problems stem from forgetting rule #1: I’m a man, I know what I want, I’m the most important person in my life, and who cares what people think.
    If any of this is missing, I got to think it’s the wrong path. Cause you’re not “looking” for Mr. Right – there’s a guy out there somewhere who knows what he wants, and when he sees you, he’s just going to claim you because YOU’RE YOU.

    So what does this mean?
    YOU MUST be your authentic self – or your “Mr. Right” (for lack of better wording) is never going to see you. By all definitional purposes – you’re invisible to him if you’re not being true to yourself and honest and authentic with what YOU want as a woman.



  17.  #17Cassandra on December 4, 2008 at 5:50 pm

    Daria…that poem that you wrote is beautiful! I loved it! About the icky feelings that you were having could it be that because in this society it is still ok for a man to have sex with as many women as he wants and that is fine but it is still not that way for a woman that perhaps you may have been allowing ‘outside influences’ influence your deep feelings about wanting/ having sex? I am not saying that this in indeed the case but maybe? It could also be that giving that part of yourself does involve a deeper connection for most women and perhaps it could have been a protection mechanism? Only you know those things but these were just ideas to think about. My two cents tells me that I think you should stay open to the guys that you like until the one that you really like steps up to the plate and really becomes the BOY for you. I would not picture them on that road with you for the long haul until ‘the one’ has stepped up for you otherwise I think that you may put too much pressure on yourself and thereby the relationship in general for a committment. Just enjoy the journey…the walk and being pampered and given to because until he steps up he does not deserve you being invested…..just my thoughts but I hope it helps.

    Charles has been fantastic all day and went out to hang out with his brother for a little while but is bringing me dinner back. If this is how it can be forever…I will take it. I feel relaxed with him now….I feel more safe than I have in a long time with him..not totally but alot more than I have…he even told me that we are not going to speak of this cancer thing as though it has life but as though I have already beaten it. I WANT things to work out for the long haul with him…he even told me earlier this evening that we will get married..that he does want to marry me but he just can’t tell me when. I want to wait…I really do but am I being a totally idiot? Mr. Past called to remind me to call him right after the biopsy in the morning. I am not even sure what to think about all of this. I can’t wait until Charles gets home and I can snuggle up in my spot in his arms and watch Grey’s Anatomy.
    Love you….
    Cassandra



  18.  #18alias girl on December 4, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    daria that is so great that you spoke your desire in a feeling message all rockstar like. heheh. made me smile. i would concentrate on the now. what feels good moment by momeny by moment tweaking your life as you go along. that will most assuredly bring you clarity about your decisions and who you eventually pick as the LUCKY man who gets to be yours and gets to have you all to himself.

    i love you all. xoxo



  19.  #19JP on December 4, 2008 at 6:07 pm

    Ladies, I came on here tonight to share something with you and now I’m blown away by all your posts! Wow!! Cassandra, I agree with Reshi & Caj13, you’re in the groove, that’s the way the energy works. Reshi, love your post about the stories and new ending. And all the responses, too.

    The stars must be shining on us tonight. I want to share something that happened today, something that’s trumpet-blasting proof that Rori’s stuff really works. (So Rori, if you’re reading this, picture my fulsome ruby lips planting a big kiss on your cheek).

    I won’t go into great detail. I’ve been much more ‘myself’ in my relationship recently and we’ve been growing closer. Today my man opened up to me about a problem in his life that affects how he feels in relationship. He asked if I would release him for a time.

    I’ll say now that we’ve turned this around, and I’ll also say that I didn’t get it all right – I’m still learning! So I’ll simply do my best to offer what tools I was able to use – firstly I responded with a Feeling Message, then I listened at Level 2 to what he had to say. I summarised briefly now and then, to check I understood, adding feeling messages where it felt right.

    I was feeling so surprised, scared, sad. But here he was opening up to me.

    Some issues came up about how we communicate with one another too – good stuff we can sort out. I’m redeploying my Cheerleader to social events only – she’s been coming between us.

    Later in the conversation something in me shifted – and I could feel this ENERGY welling up inside me. Suddenly these words came: ‘That doesn’t FEEL right to me. I don’t want to make you stay, but for me: we’re in this together. It doesn’t feel right that you go away to make yourself what you think you ought to be. I love you as you are, and yes, it would be wonderful to have that sort of life, but actually, I’ve been feeling really great with you recently.’

    I have never said anything like that before! And he looked me in the eyes for a long time.

    He had to rush off to work a little while later, and I stayed home with my old insecurities and fears. Again, I remembered Rori’s advice, so I got very comfortable and lay there in the silence, focusing on my feelings and the room around me. My thoughts about how I might respond to his text later just drifted away after an hour or so – I hadn’t even received it at this point, but I started to compose feeling messages. By the time it came, and it was his usual warm loving words, I was able to simply describe how peaceful it felt etc. And he replied again, with even more affection.

    I can’t even begin to describe how differently I would have handled something like this a year ago – I’d have been devastated, angry and rejected. I would become defensive and feel anxious. Instead I feel that we have the potential to grow closer in a more honest relationship, and I feel good about how I handled today.

    I understand now how intimacy is scary!



  20.  #20JP on December 4, 2008 at 6:20 pm

    Cassandra – I’m touched to read about your baby loss and what happened in that relationship; I’ve had the same experience although it was – gosh – nearly 30 years ago. I was very young and it took me a long time to come to terms with the confusing loss, and was made harder by an early miscarriage shortly after. Now I have a gorgeous son of 20. He is a star!

    These things can leave us traumatised a while, and affect our self-esteem. X



  21.  #21JP on December 4, 2008 at 6:23 pm

    Daria, your account of the Mists of Avalon got me smiling too! 🙂



  22.  #22alias girl on December 4, 2008 at 7:05 pm

    jp your post about the conversation you had with your significant other brought tears to my eyes. thank you for sharing.



  23.  #23JP on December 4, 2008 at 7:32 pm

    That’s so sweet of you, Alias Girl! Catch up with you soon – off to bed now X



  24.  #24Reshi on December 4, 2008 at 8:32 pm

    There must be something in the water! It’s so exciting to hear about all these wonderful shifts everyone is having. Thanks so much Rori for providing the programs and the space for us to do this. <3 It feels like a wonderful soap opera!



  25.  #25alias girl on December 4, 2008 at 10:19 pm

    haha reshi. it does feel like a wonderful soap opera but with all the stories turning UP rather than tragic. i love it!



  26.  #26Rori Raye on December 4, 2008 at 11:00 pm

    To all, I’ve read each of your comments with my mouth hanging open – you’re all goddesses and gurus! Thank you for really doing the work, and letting me know about your great results, and your bravery and loveliness is just off the charts.

    And thank you so much for the glorious feedback and support you’re sharing – it all just feels so feminine, doesn’t it? I don’t hear a single masculine “overfunctioning” voice – it’s just all sharing and feelings, and it’s so easy and delightful to read – and that’s exactly the way a man feels when he reads or hears this kind of energy being spoken in words.

    For those of you in the midst of so much shifting – Cassandra, especially – my goodness – look what you’ve brought in! And I’m so thrilled to hear you feeling so strong – and you DO sound that way, for real.

    And JP thank you so much for your story and Maria and Mocha, and Caj13 for your help with Circular Dating, Alias Girl, Daria, Reshi – just incredible contributions here. Bethany – so sorry you are in the middle of this turmoil – and to me it just feels like you’re hitting your limit of how much triggering you can handle in this moment (often in this stage, I hear about crying non-stop for days, and then it all clears out – and I would love for you to be somewhere where you could feel free to let it all out like that) – I would like you to follow your feelings – and what I hear most (besides the fear) is that you want to get to your sewing machine and take a breath to process everything that’s been happening. I do not believe that anything you do or don’t do will have any effect at all on this relationship – but your discomfort and misery around this obsession just needs some processing, or it will effect your self-esteem and confidence. Rest is what you need right now. Rest and regrouping – and to spend ALL your energy in service of your dreams.

    Thank you all for making this place your home base and spreading your gorgeous energy everywhere. Love, Rori



  27.  #27alias girl on December 5, 2008 at 1:13 am

    ok i seem to not be manifesting men i am attracted to in this whole circulard datingthing. and i know rori that you suggest just dating the men who ask as long as their not scary troll people but i am having a hard time with this circular dating thing. men scare me. unless they are really reserved and can control their enthusiasm they scare me. men who i just meet and draw boundaries with and they overstep them and ick. i have men i never even met who i talked to maybe once on the phone from an online site who are still calling me months later. i do not return their calls. i told them i was not interested. why do i have this going on? what am i trying to prove to myself? i only feel safe with low key guys who play it cool. otherwise i feel like thos text me five times in a row even though i don’t respond guys are going to swallow me up or kill me or stalk me.
    i want to circular date guys that are interested but can kind of keep it under control and let things develop at a slower pacem even if i fell madly in love with a guy at first site i would not be all gooey on him.
    why am i creating this for myself? it is just keeping me alone and not dating.
    does anyone have any feedback?



  28.  #28alias girl on December 5, 2008 at 1:20 am

    oh hey rori your last post was not up when i wrote my last comment. thank you so much for all your work and love. look what beautiful godesses you are creating! i have never felt more safe or more loving or more enthusiastic in my life. my self esteem is so much better and i just feel so much softer. i still have my hard boy side and i like that but i looooove my soft feminine side too. and i love being able to actually feel what i feel and being authentic. i could go on and on and on. 🙂 xxxxxxooooooo!



  29.  #29Maria on December 5, 2008 at 1:30 am

    Back in my mind, somewhere in my inner universe l do belive that with a right guy all is effortless…l wish l could find it.



  30.  #30gina on December 5, 2008 at 1:57 am

    Daria,
    I’m pretty new to this stuff, but I can relate to your dilemma. I used to offer men the goods in exchange for crumbs, and I felt all flattered that they wanted me. Now I think that was silly of me cause I know that OF COURSE they were willing to take what I was offering, but I wasn’t getting much in return. At the time, though, I honestly didn’t feel ready for the whole enchilada, and I needed to experience myself as sexy and provocative. Maybe that’s why you provoked him over the phone rather than in person – you just wanted to experience yourself as sexy, flirtatious and desirable? I think it was cool to be all bold, but maybe your subsequent anxiety came because you were indeed in masculine energy mode when you expressed yourself. I may be wrong, but it seems like asking to be his girlfriend or telling him you want sex are not actual feeling messages. As I see it, letting him know you are attracted to him or that you feel good with him are actual feelings in response to what he is doing, rather than telling him what you want to be doing (having sex, etc). I am finding that the feeling messages work amazingly well. I never feel all anxious about it cause I am letting him know how he makes me feel – he’s doin all the work, and I just honestly respond. When I try to control things, and I see things aren’t going according to my agenda, I go crazy. I hope you can feel good about yourself for taking a bold sexy risk, and for taking steps towards the relationship of your dreams. Just keep trusting your feelings like Rori says.



  31.  #31Bethany on December 5, 2008 at 2:03 am

    JP, you’re my Communicating With Difficult Men idol! I wish I had done what you did. Amazing. I hope to get there.

    Rori and everyone–thanks for the support. He texted me tonight and said he wanted to kiss me, I texted that would feel good, then he texted back that he was busy reading, and asked what I was doing…then he called me and in the conversation I asked, “are you okay?” and he asked “yeah, why?” and I said I didn’t feel like I saw him much that week….he said yeah, but maybe we could have dinner tomorrow niight, I said that’d be nice…then he opened up about what’s been going on with him…he said it’s cyclical for him, that this time of year he goes into his “shell” and needs to work things out about his school, his music, and basically I heard a lot about how he judges himself harshly, even though he didn’t use those words. He compares himself to others. I listened intently. I understand. Then I said it would feel nice to know when he does this and it’s nice to know what’s going on. I froze a little bit and didn’t know how to say I felt really hurt this week and ignored and unwanted. I feel better knowing it ISN”T me, but then, I don’t know how I feel about being with someone who checks out on me without warning or communication. Maybe I said enough: what I want, but I don’t know…

    I don’t know what I want. I want to be understanding and a good partner, but I went back and read Rori’s post about depressed men, and it makes sense…you have to be soooo comfortable with your own uncomfortable feelings that you make it okay for someone else to feel safe having them. I feel tired and like I’m going to pass out. I want to take care of myself. I want to be my priority right now. He is doing whatever he needs to do. I need to let him go do that. Because I need to put my energy into myself. I don’t need to bolt and freak out on him. I need to see clearly what is going on. And I feel torn between being understanding and supportive and feeling like I want to say: “It felt good to talk to you last night and understand what’s going on for you. I felt disconnected this week and I feel good that you can open up to me. It would be nice to have dinner with you tonight but I feel like I want to go home this weekend and get my own end-of-semester life in order. I don’t know. I’m not crying, I just feel confused and unsure of what to do.



  32.  #32Erika on December 5, 2008 at 9:12 am

    Hey yeah wanting commitment from a man who isn’t giving it is a huge drag.

    I highly recommend getting into a space where you’re not sure you want commitment, even if you are sleeping with him.

    After all, there are just so many glorious men in the world, how do I know that this man is the be-all and end-all for me?



  33.  #33Cassandra on December 5, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    You guys ROCK! Rori…thanks for your comments and encouragement. Bethany, I am so gald that he finally did text you. I am so happy for you that he opened up but even more so that you are taking care of YOU! It sounds like you really want to go home this weekend and eventhough he asked to spend time with you I would follow what it is that YOU want to do for YOU! I am excited for you because from the outside looking in you are growing in leaps and bounds even though it may not FEEL that way. YAYAY!!! Celebrate that! 🙂

    Daria…I -reread that poem that you wrote last night and when I read it today it made me cry. I really love that so thank you for shaeing it with all of us…it is a gift!

    I had my biopsy this morning and I am not sure what the heck is in the water as Reshi said but on my way to the Dr. my phone was ringing off the hook. As soon as I got there Charles called to check on me and on the way there Mr. Past called to cehck on me nad he told me that he so wished that he could have been there with me this morning and hten he told me that WE…yes… he said WE…..will get through this together! I was not sure what to think of that in that we are not even together but it was definitely a nice, thoughtful message and it did make my heart smile. He also called me after the biopsy to see if I was ok and again told me that we will get through this together. I am not sure what to think of that….I am sure I will process it as time goes by. I called Charles right after the biopsy and he was so concerned and that made me feel really happy and safe….Like I was in his arms and cuddled up and secure and that was nice. When I got home HE met ME at the door which he never does and just held me…….I lost it and started crying but he just held me and did not say anything. I had brought lunch home so we went in the other room and ate lunch together which was wonderful and the whole time he kept pushing the hair out of my face oer stroking my cheek or my arm. I am a VERY touchy/ affectionate person so I really loved that – it made me feel loved and I told him that. I told him that him meeting me at the door and being there for me in this way made me feel so loved and cared for and he then kissed me on the forehead. Can one of you pinch me please? Is this real? AM I dreaming? I don’t mean that with any bit of sarcasm at all…I just don’t want it to end. As far as this cancer issue goes I will not have any results until Tuesday or Wednesday of next week. I am more afraid of possibly not being able to have a baby than I am of the cancer. After lunch I went to do something for ME and got my hair done and that felt really great….I love it. I am feeling so good today…..Rori…thank you….I do feel strong today so much stronger than I have in a very long time.Thanks you guys for all of your love and support. You all are so special to me….I love you guys.
    XOXO
    Cassandra



  34.  #34Daria on December 5, 2008 at 3:56 pm

    Cassandra I am so happy for you that you are getting the kind of treatment you want! Keep doing the nice things for yourself!

    By the way, the “poem” as you called it I didn’t even realize was a poem… it was just a path or a revelation that came to me… which is wonderful because I was unsure about what I wanted with men and now I have it!



  35.  #35Cassandra on December 5, 2008 at 7:02 pm

    Daria, I think that it is beautiful as a matter of fact I would print it out and put it somewhere where I could see it several times every day. I really do love it. 🙂

    Love and a huge hug…
    Cassandra



  36.  #36Becca on December 5, 2008 at 11:08 pm

    OK guys, just got to get this off my chest. I feel really weird about using feeling messages now cause my ex kind of caught me up on it… we were having an IM conversation which I think was going ok (he said that he would miss me when I move interstate which made me feel kind of good), and at the end…
    him: i have to go i will speak to you soon do you still want to go bowling we can go tomorrow if you want
    me: ok, that would feel like fun
    him: wat do you mean feel
    me (trying to bluff my way out cos i didn’t know what to say to his question): not sure i just wrote it, lol… but i wouldn’t want to do something that feels bad… maybe human instinct or something
    him: bowling is not bad is it
    me: bowling is fun
    him: ok well i’ll speak to u tomorrow
    me: ok bye
    him: see ya

    So now I feel really weird and lame and feel worried that he will think I’m lame, especially if I use more feeling messages with him… what do you guys think? Maybe you could help me tweak this so that if anyone else asks I will have an answer prepared.

    xoxoxo



  37.  #37Rori Raye on December 5, 2008 at 11:08 pm

    Jon – your comment was so terrific, I put it, plus my own two cents – right here –

    https://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/love-life/the-truth-from-a-man/

    Love, Rori



  38.  #38alias girl on December 6, 2008 at 1:58 am

    becca. it’s ok. you are actually using language that is mor attuned to a woman’s biology or sense of the world. so even though it may seem unnatural to you at first it is only bc you are accustomed to using other language. count how many time you say i think. i think blah blah blah. i think this. i think that. it’s just what you and scoiety (male dominated society has taught you to say to express yourself.) you are just changing it to i feel using authentic links to what you are truly feeling which allows a man to feel close to you. YOU are the link for a man into the world of feelinga. be proud that you can allow him this access. there is nothing to be ashamed of. it’s not like you are tricking him or manipulating him you are expressing your true vulnerable lovely gorgeous self. it’s ok. you will both get used to it and actually learn to love it. 🙂



  39.  #39Bethany on December 6, 2008 at 2:11 am

    Becca, You TOTALLY did the right thing! You’re feeling weird because your old habits of not “using the feel” are trying to pull you back to where you feel safe. So, if you feel shakey about this, it’s a good thing! You can just say what you mean, if they/he asks about what you mean: “It would feel fun to go bowling with you.” Explaining it is masculine head stuff. You’re FINE!



  40.  #40JP on December 6, 2008 at 2:45 am

    Analysing texts – yep, been there, still visit that place: tell me ALL about it!

    I don’t use ‘feel’ all the time now – I might have said ‘Yes, that would be fun’ but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with what you texted! We could drive ourselves crrrrazy 🙂



  41.  #41JP on December 6, 2008 at 2:57 am

    Bethany, thanks for your comment – I feel radiant!

    I’m in awe of all of you – Reshi, Daria, Alias Girl, Becca, Bethany (amonst others) – who share your innermost feelings and process here. At first I felt scared. I’m wondering if I find it difficult to share in that way, or if I’m not in that space at the moment.

    I came on here yesterday having woken up feeling lousy – I cried, I felt scared and lonely and exhausted. I convinced myself I was about to be abandoned. But I couldn’t post anything, I needed to switch off everything and be with myself. So I cried for a couple of hours, then sorted out my make-up and jewellery and ended up feeling organised.

    I read Rori’s comment to Bethany and that really helped me – realised I, too, was at the limit of triggers and needed my equivalent of Bethany’s sewing machine – so thank you both!!



  42.  #42JP on December 6, 2008 at 2:59 am

    PS I got my commitment! 🙂 🙂



  43.  #43Daria on December 6, 2008 at 5:14 am

    Wow JP cool!

    I just had a wonderful date with a super duper masculine man who is really into me and I am digging…
    I feel so tired and good!

    Becca… I had a guy who would at first say why do you feel that… why do u keep saying feel… that can’t be just your personality! Talk about busting me out!… and other guys who said… you’re always Feeling something… lol… i just ignored them and kept on! They were not used to it yet, and neither was I… now it never happens anymore…
    if anything, In your case he may have really meant… what do you mean “like” ? because if you said that would feel fun… (without like) that wouldn’t sound unusual… at least to me now… but I am very used to feeling messages now…

    Rori – how do we use feeling messages in another language – not English – where “feel” doesn’t really go with emotions… is it enough to simply express the emotion? Now that I asked that I realize that I have started to use feel all the time in my language too… it just doesn’t work with some primary feelings like hungry, cold, hot, but it does with sad, upset (no word for anger… only furious), happy.



  44.  #44Caj13 on December 6, 2008 at 3:58 pm

    Hi Daria,

    I’ve been struggling with the same thing – translating the feeling messages into another language. I have even asked other bilinguals about the exact equivalent of “hurt” so I could avoid it (it’s not a single verb here, but nobody really understands where I’m coming from. It’s hard to figure out how the natives perceive the nuances among the variants, probably relates to how language was used in the early family environment, something a foreigner never experiences.

    But I think I’ve finally found some help in some books based on Marshall Rosenberg’s concept of Non Violent Communication (NVC), which is a really fantastic structure for people to resolve conficts by sharing equally in determining everyone’s real needs and getting them satisfied to mutual content . For English speakers, Rosenberg has developed lists of feeling words which are categorized for using in different situations, including the words to avoid .

    Anyway, there’s a Belgian, Th. d’Ansembourg, who worked with Rosenberg and has concocted similar lists for French, because you need a whole bunch of different verbs (we have the equivalents in English, but they sound too bookish or put on), instead of the easy, familiar, casual way we can do it in English with “I feel + the feeling”. The key thing in any language seems to be to not choose words that infer blame or make the other person responsible for one’s own feelings. An example: you can say “I feel dejected” or “sad” because no one can deject or sad you, but not “I feel rejected” because he can reject you. This keeps with Rori’s recommendation that men have a hard time hearing “hurt”, as they are aware they can hurt you, but expands it to any word that implies some form of hurtful behavior that could be “done” to you. (Don’t forget the purified end feeling, even if it resulted from something that was done to you.)

    So perhaps you can find resources based on NVC in whatever other language you need.
    And if not, apply the principles to make up your own lists.

    Thank you all, A.G., Daria, J.P. and the others for recounting your actual experiences with feeling messages, and reminding us that we’re not off track if they feel weird at first. Makes our birthright feel so much more real; and not only possible but simply natural.



  45.  #45TW on December 6, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    Hello ladies- Alias girl, I have missed you!! Well ladies, I have a question for you all but I will start with the story first. The guy I have my eyes on (dated off and on for years and went into friend mode and now back to kinda seeing each other) called ME on Monday and we talked. I used the I feels and he responded very well to them. He said that he would call me back and he did and then HE called me and asked me could he come over (now I used to do the inviting but stopped per Rori’s e book) and he spent the night with me. I did not see him anymore until Friday when he came to see me at work. He asked me why was I so happy and did I have some sex on my lunch break. I said I do not feel the need to sleep with other men at this point in my life and I am happy to see you (I sent that in a text because I was busy) He asked me to call him when I got off work so I did. He said look at the last text that you sent me and it hurt his feelings. He was like you just said that you did not want to sleep with me anymore. I said no that is not what I said. I said that I did not feel the need to sleep with other men at this point in my life and did not mention anything about you. I said I felt happy because I got to see you. He was like oh I misunderstood. Anyway, we got off the phone and I did not expect to see him or talk to him anymore that night so I laid down and was watching TV and he text me and asked me was I up. I replied and said yes. He text me back and said be there in 5 minutes so I was like ok. He walked in and went straight to my sons room to check on him and then we went to my bedroom and did the do 🙂 and talked. He got back up to check on my boys before we went to sleep. I love the way that I feel when I fall asleep in his arms at night and when I wake up next to him in the mornings. It makes me feel safe and less stressed to have him around. Now here comes the tricky part. I do not know where we stand. We have gone from having sex once or twice a month to twice this week. I want him to be with me on the permanat basis but how do I go about saying it or conveying it without losing my feminine self. I was advised in another post to say “I feel like we would be so much better together than we would be apart” No with that being said is that leaning foward if I bring it up even with using feeling messages. I let him contact me now, I let him decide when we will see each other, I let him make all the moves now but I want him to be mine and mine only. What do I do ladies?



  46.  #46gina on December 7, 2008 at 10:19 am

    keep circular dating till he brings up your future?



  47.  #47Rori Raye on December 7, 2008 at 11:23 am

    Keep Circular Dating until he’s closed the deal – Love, Rori



  48.  #48alias girl on December 7, 2008 at 4:05 pm

    i want to chime in too and say the exact same thing! 🙂 keep circular dating! which will also help you feel like you are not constantly on His schedule. unless that’s how you want the rest of your life to go. nothing wrong with that if that’s what you want. anyway good work tw with successfully using feeling messages.



  49.  #49TW on December 7, 2008 at 4:20 pm

    Alias girl- I’ve missed you girl. I am trying to rebuild me but I have seen other guys off and on the whole time. I think he thinks that I am not seeing anyone else but then I did tell him the other day that I did not feel the need to be intimate with another man but that is the truth. That does not mean that I can not go out and have a good time but then it may lead to something physical which I will have to deal with at the time. I love him and he knows that. I know that I want to end up with him but I have to deal with me first and figure me out. Rori’s book is helping me that. My self esteem and confidence is going through the roof since I have been reading the e book.



  50.  #50TW on December 7, 2008 at 4:27 pm

    Rori- should I tell him that I am seeing other men or should I just date them and leave him guessing. I do not really know how to handle that. I have gone out with two other guys recently but he does not know that.



  51.  #51Daria on December 7, 2008 at 7:02 pm

    TW saying “I feel like we would be so much better together than we would be apart” sounds indirect to me… as in (why would you be apart?) and of course you’d be better together, but together could mean a lot of things…
    how about… I feel so good with how you’ve been treating me lately… thank you… I’ve been feeling I want to be married, or I feel I want to be in a truly commited relationship (which you’ll have to detail what that means after he answers) … what do u think?… or something along those lines…

    my guess is that it’s something that you kind of go fearlessly for, it’s to Express your feelings not to affect what he feels (scary kind of because we could get an answer we don’t want to hear… but that’s ok)



  52.  #52TW on December 7, 2008 at 7:06 pm

    Daria- you are so right. It is like the fear of the unknown ya know. You know exactly what you feel but what he feels is a mystery until it comes out of his mouth. I do not know if I am really ready to bring the subject up yet. I am enjoying the reconnection portion right now and then after I see how all of that would play out then maybe bring it up. I just have no clue right now ya know. It is like I want the relationship right now but I also want to rebuild right now as well and I do not see where I can do both. In my mind it is either one or the other.



  53.  #53alias girl on December 7, 2008 at 8:47 pm

    i feel confused. i feel lovely and ecstatic and i also feel confused. i want to be with more than one man. (WHO KNEW???!) after hooking up with one of my exes i have just felt so wonderful since then and so full of love for him. but he is currently an unchoosable and not available ETC.! and i also like my other ex who i told we could start seeing each other again once i start dating other men. which has not happened bc as i have written time and again i have a strong zero rotation going. but it occurs to me that i want both my exes AND to keep circular dating.

    i feel i have taken rori’s program and tools and perhaps swerved off course with the whole thing. ? plus the one guyi feel no one would approve of bc of his situation but well that’s life.

    i feel extremely confused and like i am doing it wrong which makes me feel discouraged. i feel alone. i feel happy though. like i could be happiER with a man (men?) but life is good for me right now. i feel confused. that feels like dandelion fuzz floating around my face. i feel like i just want to run a hundre miles. (except i don’t feel like running) i feel like i am an engine revving before a race. a fun race. i guess i feel powerful.

    am i doing something wrong? i am alone and want to be with more than one man. sexually romantically. i am a female polygamist in the making. am i just greedy or am i just experimenting and for the first time stepping outside what society has dictated to me what i am supposed to want and what is and isn’t acceptable behavior. or do i just like to break rules? or am i once again avoiding intimacy and relationship? no i think if my man was here and was ready to claim me the resst of my newfound shenanigans would fall away. or maybe not. i feel like i am in love with no object of desire other than myself and i want to share the love. heheh. i also feel a little crazy but i’m ok with that.



  54.  #54TW on December 7, 2008 at 8:54 pm

    Alias girl- You are just being one with your feelings. You are circular dating if you are seeing more than one guy no matter on what level. No one said that you had to be sexually exclusive with one of them. You can have sex with both of them if YOU feel comfortable with that and are not in agreement with one of them to be sexually exclusive. Anyway, do not worry about society because the Tools are teaching you to worry about what you feel and what makes you happy. In the end, whenever you want to settle down then you will know and you will know exactly what you want and what you do not want. Dont stress over it jsut have fun and be in the moment with it. You have expressed all of your feeling of confusion and stuff just focus on dealing with those feelings. Keep getting them out inthe open. It obviously makes you feel better. I am loving it!!!



  55.  #55Daria on December 7, 2008 at 10:09 pm

    Alias girl!! I am so with you… going through this same issue right now wanting to be with more than one man! I feel a lot less guilty about this than in the past but guilt has come up for me! Am going to go for pleasing myself and having my cake and eating it too!

    YAY!



  56.  #56alias girl on December 7, 2008 at 10:53 pm

    heheh. cool. thanks tw and daria. i shall follow my bliss and see where it leads me.



  57.  #57TW on December 8, 2008 at 6:14 am

    Alias girl- You are too funny…. We will definitely need details of your adventure. Re read what Rori sent to you and you will understand that you have to make you happy in the situation and if dating multiple men makes you happy then so be it. I am seeing more than one guy and I am fine with it. Do I want to be with one of them exclusively….yes but until he makes that move then I am going to continue dating and have fun doing it.



  58.  #58Cassandra on December 8, 2008 at 7:28 am

    JP…I AM SO HAPPY FOR YOU!! You deserve all of the wonderful things that you have been wanting and dreaming of and I am so so so excited for you!!! 🙂 I wish tha I could give you a huge hug!
    TW…you have come SO FAR and I am thrilled for you. it is so awesome to come here and see how everyone is moving forward and growing and loving themselves and then everything that we all want falls into place. Awesome. I am realy happy for you too!
    Alias Girl and Daria…I think you guys are right on track….you can do whatever FEELS good to you at that moment and I don’t think that there is a ‘doing it wrong’. I think that it is a journey into finding what works for YOU…waht FEELS good to YOU and what you ulitmately want and desire for your life so I think you guys are awesome and all of you here are an inspiration!
    Love and hugs….
    Cassandra



  59.  #59nir on December 8, 2008 at 10:43 am

    “YOU MUST be your authentic self – or your “Mr. Right” (for lack of better wording) is never going to see you. By all definitional purposes – you’re invisible to him if you’re not being true to yourself and honest and authentic with what YOU want as a woman.”

    This helped me so much, Jon, thank you.

    Reshi, I can relate to the stories.

    Cassandra, your story is amazing. I hope the biopsy turned out well.



  60.  #60Samat on December 8, 2008 at 11:00 am

    You guys are so cool. I am feeling a lot of love for everyone of you right now! Thank you everyone for your nice posts. I love this platform for sharing feelings because my feelings dont really get appreciated much out in the world.



  61.  #61Cassandra on December 8, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    Nir and Samat…you guys have TOTALLY come to the right place! Not only are Rori and her tools and methods amazing, so are ALL of the women here on this site! I am not sure what I would do without any of them! There is most definitely love here that you will not find in any other place because it is real, authentic, supportive and really wants waht is best for YOU. I am so glad that you are here. Nir, thank you for mentioning the biopsy. I appreciate your support. I wil have the results on Wed….maybe tomorrow but most likely Wed. For some reason I am not nervous about this. I KNOW that I will beat it. I am more afraid of never being able to have a child but I am choosing to think that it will not be an issue! 🙂 I am so excited that both you and Samat are here and I can’t wait to hear all about how Rori, her tools and all of the wonderful ladies here are helping you to REALLY allow yourself to be YOU and truly love YOU for YOU! All the rrest will fall into place!
    with Love and huge hug…..
    Cassandra



  62.  #62TW on December 8, 2008 at 8:35 pm

    Cassandra- Are you feeling better? I know today has been a rough day for you but are you better? Did you riff it out and take a love bath to get back into that Superwoman mode? Love you!! 😉



  63.  #63Cassandra on December 9, 2008 at 6:50 am

    TW…..yes…thanks. Sorry I am just now getting back to you. We went over to Charles’ brother’s house so that the guys could do an online class that they had to do and I was helping them with that. I did actually have a nice evening. Thanks for checking on me! How was your evening? Love you too!!!
    –Cassandra



  64.  #64Samantha on March 5, 2009 at 12:17 pm

    Rori, I am struggling in my relationship, my boyfriend of 14 months and I are living together in the same one bedroom apartment he stays on the couch while I use the bedroom. We have decided to try being “friends” the hard part about this is that for one I am not over him- and two we are still living together which makes EVERYTHING that much harder!
    He said we should be friends and then see what happens like if we want to start “dating” again and then later start a new relationship – and of course we are “free” to do what we want- I know I will not be getting with anyone in any way while we are still under the same roof because well thats very alkward and like I said I am still in love with him.
    The beginning ofour relationship started by diving head first into everything – no thought involved. Just used our hearts to think for our heads, and we completely missed the friends/dating etc boat- Can we still make it work this way??
    Or am I just wasting my time with trying out “just friends” while again still living together-
    Is there anything you can suggest for me to do while we go throuugh this to make me look more appealing again opposed to other girls he may find interest in-??



  65.  #65Rori Raye on March 5, 2009 at 10:56 pm

    Samantha, I don’t know how old you are or your financial situation – but I say ask him to please leave and live somewhere else while you’re figuring out what to do here (and being “friends” will not help you) – get yourself a roomate to help with the rent, or move yourself into a less expensive situation.

    I once had a girlfriend who was sharing a house with a man she was still in love with – and somehow she made it through after years into a good relationship and moved out – but it was a lot of pain just to be in a great house… Love, Rori



  66.  #66susan on March 10, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    Help! I’ve fallen into the “friend trap”. I was in a 10.5yr relationship with an amazing guy (we were engaged), but following a bout of depression/mid-life crisis he decided he wanted “space” and couldn’t handle our relationship literally from one day to the next. Although I gave him his space, he does call and email, and at these times, our conversations seem “abnormally normal”. I don’t want to lose him… which of your tools should I focus on to turn this situation around?



  67.  #67Flipper on March 11, 2009 at 6:02 am

    Hi Susan,
    Rori did a post a few months ago “How to deal with a depressed man” – that’s probably a good place to start. It’s in the “Your story and questions for Rori category”. I feel part of the solution is not turning yourself into the ‘patient’ one. Treating yourself well, and letting him and a professional deal with his issues, is far more helpful. So hug yourself + more hugs from Siren Island.



  68.  #68susan on March 12, 2009 at 1:52 am

    Thanks Flipper. I can’t seem to find the post though..



  69.  #69susan on March 12, 2009 at 2:00 am

    sorry — just found it! Rori says “The way to deal with a depressed person is to be so in touch with your own feelings, so turning, morphing, riffing your sensations and feelings into loving ones toward yourself, so that you can feel MORE and MORE of your emotions instead of less and less, that you create an atmosphere of SAFETY around you for EVERYONE.”

    However, I don’t know how to do this.. I did exactly what I shouldn’t have done i.e. try to help him / placate him — and indeed it got worse. How can I repair the damage?



  70.  #70Flipper on March 12, 2009 at 8:49 am

    You’re in luck Susan – Rori’s last post is about “un-doing” any bad habit we’ve fallen into or “wrong” turn we’ve made. As for getting in touch with your own emotions through riffing, etc., go into the Power and Self Esteem Section which has 4-5 posts outlining the specific steps and plenty of feedback and examples. I feel the universe and your own lovely self have led you to just the right place at the right time, so take heart, feel your heart through to a happier life.



  71.  #71Rori Raye on March 12, 2009 at 10:51 am

    Susan, I wanted to comment on your comment – and then perhaps jump off to a post. You can undo this very quickly – post here (when I get it up) Rori



  72.  #72Diane on April 16, 2009 at 10:51 am

    Rori,
    I have a little bit of a different situation from the others. I am in love with my boss. I started working at my current job in July and by the end of August we had realized an attraction for each other. At first it was fun, flirty and exciting (in fact I lost about 20 lbs from excitement). He was going to tell his boss that we wanted a relationship. I talked him into waiting since we had never gone out and really there wasn’t anything yet to tell. As time went on, he thought about it and said that he didn’t think it was a good idea to get involved in a relationship because we did work together and if it went bad then it would be difficult. But we still continued to talk on the phone and text and email each other all of the time. He told me around Thanksgiving last year that he thought we should just be really good friends. I kept trying to convince him that it would be ok that we could keep it separate from work. (we have never slept together, only kissed). As far as going out together, we only walked around the mall a couple of times, but our time together is always fun and enjoyable, even if we’re just talking. He says we can’t be alone together because he knows what would happen. We used to talk all the time at work and take walks which of course led to office gossip which he said he didn’t care about because we knew there was nothing going on. He had a very bad experience in his marriage (after 25 yrs) and is not very receptive to even having a relationship with ANYYBODY. He knows that I want a relationship with him. He wants to be “friends with benefits” but he knows that I won’t do that because I want more and if we sleep together now, that is all it will ever be. He has continued to be flirtatious and attentive which always made me feel special. Lately, maybe over the last month, I have been feeling that instead of getting closer together that he is pulling farther away. He says that we are friends and that he trusts me. I always felt that we needed to be friends before we could actually have a good committed relationship anyway, so I was going along with this thinking that the more we got to know each other, the better the chances were. In my mind it is only a matter of time and if one of us were to get transferred to another department or got a new job then it would be different. I try to act like I don’t care. I have stopped texting and calling him at night and on the weekends. My whole problem is that when he ignores me, it drives me crazy and I want to go into his office and ask, “are you mad at me?”, “did I do something?”, ” is there something wrong?” . I have tried really hard not to do this, but I get so depressed at work and then I make it worse. I know that he most likely felt like I was pushing him because I was afraid that if I wasn’t constantly in contact he would forget about me so I tended to text alot. In the beginning he always responded now, he only responds if it has been awhile since I last texted him. My difficulty is that I have to see him everyday and interact with him, which makes it hard to try to move on or let him come to me. When I get the littlest bit of good attention from him, then I start to hope again. Finding a new job right now is really not an option, but I don’t know how to deal with the indifference when he acts this way. It is like a roller coaster, and it changes very quickly from one extreme to another. Also, I am driving myself crazy with jealousy because I always think what if he is with somebody else, but he has assured me that he doesn’t want a relationship with anybody. Any suggestions? I know it sounds ridiculous, but I still love him and really think that we would have a great relationship ( I have never told him that I love him) I know that would send him running for the hills.



  73.  #73Rori Raye on April 18, 2009 at 2:20 pm

    Diane – Welcome – and I know you believe your situation is different – but it’s all the same – pining after a man who is simply not available to you. You are wasting your time and your precious energy and love.

    DATE!! Get Targeting Mr. Right if you need help Circular Dating so you can get emotionally detached from this man. If neither of you can switch jobs or departments, then you cannot be together. Period. Right now, his job is paramount, and he doesn’t want to endanger it. The fluctuations you’re feeling from him are the normal ups and downs of a man in his situation. You are SECOND to his job – so get over him and ignore him and be a Rock Star – and start looking NOW for a way out of being his employee. Once you’ve done that, perhaps we can talk about how to re-ignite this thing. Love, Rori



  74.  #74Susan on April 23, 2009 at 9:54 am

    Hi Rori, Your post on how to undo the way one treats a depressed man helped me a lot — I really identified with the heavy lid analogy. I have been trying to reestablish my boundaries (as I didn’t have any when it came to him). However, I am struggling, a lot and I keep stumbling.

    He ended the relationship after over 10 years with “I need space, it didn’t work out”. Since then, he has initiated contact when he needs to talk about something (not related to the relationship). I feel that he is behaving immaturely and has sunk into the “victim” role, seeking to blame everything and everyone around him for his misery.
    He shows a happier, fun-loving side to others, yet when he is talking to me, it is inevitably about his issues in life. Ironically, he then says that there was no “fun” in our relationship. What do I do? I still love him…

    I dearly want to support and help him, but I feel like a junkie as I am craving the intimacy and contact, which is entirely at his discretion. I know that he is depressed (something his family and friends don’t accept because he manages to hide it), but I feel helpless…



  75.  #75d. on June 2, 2009 at 8:00 pm

    Hi,
    Rori your blog’s are very helpful thank you!
    I have some questions with this area pertaining to being put in “let’s be friends”

    When a man of 33 says, “I can’t give you what you want” (when you say you can’t just be friends and you can’t continue to have sex with them when they won’t commit to you sexually, giving you sexual exclusivity) this was all said at the same time of my man telling me he hasn’t slept with anyone technically since me and that to let’s be friends after 5-6months because he relates to me and cares about me.
    I told him I go out with other men, but have only had sex with him since I met him. That I want to continue our relationship as it is ; us spending time together sexually and non sexually and that we keep seeing our female and male friends, but that I need some kind of sexual exclusivity to feel more safe and secure…ie. not getting any stds. etc. Also, I told him I don’t want to share him.

    Also, for us to become closer we need some kind of commitment. Now it feels like we hit a wall. He agreed.
    He said he doesn’t really want me to be with anyone else either.
    But can’t give me what I want.
    This is a man who for one month dated me 2-3times per week for the first month (no sex, my idea-i wanted to take things slow) second month sex and spent every weekend with him.

    Third month he started to do the 3month pull away (because we felt like a couple) going into uncertainty (i guess) he didn’t call for a week in a half. I let him pull away and feel what he needed to feel (all this time I kept myself open to other men and dated) also to think about what I wanted and how I felt.
    He called 2-3times a week after that pull away to try and talk or see me. I was kinda not into seeing him.
    I finally stopped by his office after not seeing him about 3weeks and pretended like we were friends. I couldn’t tell him how I felt and was ashamed when I left his office. He called me 5min later, I didn’t hear it, he left a silly message about wanting me to edit his law paper and then called me later at 1am which was unusual so i picked up and it came out of me that “I couldn’t just be friends and i couldn’t keep doing what were doing

    So, he said we need talk face to face…He called 5 days later. We didn’t actually speak about us everything but until about 3weeks later because he left the country for 2 weeks but called me before he left and the day he came back.
    I went to dinner with him 3 days after he was back and then tried to say good-bye to go home at the end of the date and to get in the subway, he asked for me to spend the night and I said, I can’t sleep with you if your sleeping with other women.
    So it opened up our talk…
    he said at the same time I can’t give you what you want, but please come up let’s talk more and spend the night… I said, it’s catch22!
    We had a great talk because we finally opened up, i told him how I had felt and feel and he said he would think and would try and find a solution, but not tonight at 2am. and then begged me to spend the night (was quite affectionate, of course). I said I would since it was soo late, but that I would not have sex with him. I didn’t.
    The next time I saw him it was my birthday 4days after. He took me to dinner and I wanted to spend the night, he said it wasn’t a good idea. I was furious in the taxi. He called me that night and we talked again about everything and still no solution. Then a week later I needed help with some stuff, he excitedly helped me and i spent the weekend with him, had sex (no talk of the relationship just a little, i didn’t want to) then I left on a 10day trip.

    Came back, called him to say i was back the day after. He asked to see me, we spent the day together he was sick so didn’t kiss me.

    2 days later he came to a friends picnic we went back to his house…he laid down on the sofa and i stood up and said well I’m going now (realized he wanted to be alone) he stood up to walk me out and I went to kiss him good-by and he pulled away. Said, he was sick and it wasn’t a good idea. Which opened another discussion which went like this.
    me: did you find a solution?
    he: it’s the same we should just be friends. I can’t give you what you want.
    Me: ok be more specific.
    He: I don’t want a relationship with you and I want us to be friends.

    Me: thanks for your honesty, but I like our relationship the way it is. It’s is 50sex 50 nonsex…and I like how we are together and don’t want to give that up. I accept you for who you are the negative and the positive and I don’t feel the need to change you and it has been a longtime since I met someone and felt like that.
    I can’t be friends with you.

    He: I will think about it

    as we walked to the door…

    me: you have thought about it it’s clear (me thinking he just said, I don’t want a relationship with YOU- is very clear)

    He: well then, you think about it.

    ME: I did and it’s not like that between us. I want to have sex and touch you. I can’t believe you don’t want to touch me anymore.

    He: That’s not what i think…
    but, I can’t.

    Me: well, I can’t.

    I walked away.
    That was a week and half ago. No peep from him nor I.
    (he is a trial lawyer and damn good one. He knows how to arbitrate)

    So the question is how did do?
    What do I do now?

    I know circular date (I have been this whole time with him) and only focus on me. I am and will be working on that

    but…

    What if he calls?? What can I say to him?

    I miss him and I am frustrated.
    How could I be friends with a man specially in the future who says, “I don’t want a relationship with you”?…Can I tell him how I feel or should I completely block any contact with him?
    Also, should I remove him off my fb.?

    Any feedback would be so kind!!

    Thank you,
    D.



  76.  #76Rori Raye on June 3, 2009 at 9:04 am

    Hi, D – and thank you so much for your detailed comment, and here’s my take – which I know you won’t like:

    This is done. You are SO over this. He said this:

    He: I don’t want a relationship with you and I want us to be friends.

    There can be nothing clearer than this. Please, please get away from this man. Drop him completely. I mean completely. No friends, no nothing – and get out there and date. Please open up your heart to a man who feels completely sure about you in a way you can feel. Your attraction to this man is some old pattern coming from inside you – where love – real love feels impossible. And I want to tell you it is possible – and that you can have it. Love, Rori



  77.  #77Alison on September 14, 2009 at 11:01 am

    Wow…. that really hit home as I’m feeling the same with the man I’ve been dating for the last couple of months. He was great to be with and we enjoyed each others text and rung each other then he went on his hols and now its all on quiet. No phone calls no text and I’m not sure what do to now should I cal him or just forget him?

    Alison



  78.  #78Rori Raye on September 14, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    Alison, forget him. Love, Rori



  79.  #79d. on September 14, 2009 at 7:19 pm

    Rori,
    Thanks for your comment. I’m really grateful for your communication. For some reason I just saw it tonight… Reading my past comment is quite hard and is good for me… there is an update:

    I removed him as my “friend” and didn’t call him or contact him for a month. Yet, we live and go out in the same proximity and have friends that are connected.

    He saw me and we didn’t speak to each other, we were on the street. Later he called and called and I just honestly couldn’t pick up the phone. I wasn’t ready to talk because I felt so hurt. I finally told him how I felt and why I felt that way in a texto of all things.

    He immediately called me and we talked in more depth…The feeling messages worked in that it opened me up to speak honestly which opened him up more. In the past we never said how we felt about each other.

    He apologized and told me he missed me a lot and that he
    probably needs therapy…??? (he is having issues..but I don’t believe that. I know when a man loves a women he wants to commit and claims her).
    I just said we don’t want the same things…
    Later, I ran into him again and I felt very uncomfortable.
    He came to me to talk and I told him the truth that I felt uncomfortable…we both shared how this was hard to be apart and we missed each other. He asked me to go to dinner and talk and take things slowly…I wasn’t so sure about that and what he meant because I knew he had been with someone else for a couple of weeks (not anything serious)…and I responded by saying I’m not sure that it’s a good idea.
    I feel like I don’t trust him, so what is the point of dinner…well time passed a bit he is not with that girl (maybe someone else, but I’ve only seen him out with friends)
    Last month he actually helped me out in an urgent situation.
    (He is very helpful and dependable. He has always returned my calls and always picks up when I do call which is rarely. Also, he never canceled any plans and was never late.)
    We ended up talking again about us, he brought it up. He said he thought of us before as more than friends (he never told me that before )what the hell???
    Nonetheless, it goes back to the same discussion…of we get along great, relate, have fun but he is afraid that he will just stop calling me for 3 weeks (which actually hasn’t happened) and that I would feel frustrated again (with the non sexual exclusivity)… he has the fear of the future…so he says again how he is not wanting a relationship this time he said with anyone (BS)!
    He admitted he wants me there !!!
    I said, let’s just keep it open, it’s too dramatic and hostile to say let’s not talk or anything-then we miss each other more.
    So, I think what will ever happen will happen naturally.

    I date other men and keep myself open but yes my mental energy is still on him.Also, my self-esteem hit an all time low!! I’m working on building it back up.

    Sure enough I ran into him a week ago and he bought me drinks all night, watched me and stuck to me all night and we flirt. I could have gone home with him but I didn’t. I left with my girlfriend. I just can’t let myself go there…Inside protection.
    Maybe I’m not doing something right when he does come towards me… grrrrrrrrrr!

    This protection is thick so it has been blocking out others and or attracting the men who I know I don’t want to be with.

    I am trying to concentrate on other things in my life.

    I just know we will run into each other soon…I don’t want to change my life; friends and places I enjoy.
    I want to break the connection I feel when I do see him and the yearning to still be with him.

    I feel like I need to escape from him and disappear!

    I know that I want and deserve a relationship where I can build something with someone and both of us are in love…so I just try to move forward, often I hit huge bumps!!

    IT’S EXHAUSTING all this!!! I’m exhausted!!

    Any other stories like mine? What did you do?

    Thank you so much!

    love, D.



  80.  #80ABC on October 9, 2009 at 12:22 am

    Hi Rori,

    I really like your comment on D’s situation and your advice for her to drop this man completely.
    I have had similar situation where he text with flirt, and pulled back, then told me he likes me but wanted me to know that he had a girlfriend. He did that because i told him i felt really hurt that he had ignored me, and that just really hurt. So he told me he has known his current girlfriend for a long time, then he kinda asked her our and be his girlfriend.
    i am dating other men, but i don’t want to get hang up on any of them, i rather got hung up on this man that i really like but has a girlfriend—at least i know i can’t get any more disappointed than that—he’s already got a girlfriend.
    i know you have theories on men don’t develop feelings with you if he just sees you as a friend, and that women’s passion can come from friendship, but a man doesn’t work that way, if he sees you as a friend, he will always see you that way.
    but really? how come some men have been friends with some girl, and then want to be with her, and then end up developing romantic feelings for her?
    I guess my question is can men develop feelings from friendship? or maybe not like friendship, but like just being friends with you, is it really impossible for them to do that?? how do you create that attraction so that they will fall? is working on myself and being a siren help?

    ABC



  81.  #81Mina on November 29, 2009 at 11:52 pm

    Hi Rori!

    I urgently need your advice, and I genuinely believe you are the only one who can have some input in my situation, it is so difficult all my friends, male and female, are having a hard time figuring out what this is about:

    3 months ago my boyfriend of 3 years broke up with me, among other things he told me that it bothered him that I was so clueless about what I wanted to do with my life and that I had no clear direction, no drive and no will. He always wanted to help me learn how to drive and swim, to be brave enough to go out there and make my dreams come true, but I was always too afraid because I was having self-confidence issues (brough on by how I wasn’t doing anything for myself, so it was a nastu cycle).

    Once he broke up with me, I noticed that what he said about me was true, and I didn’t like it! So I took the time I had without him to solve these issues and really do things for myself. I achieved wonderful things.

    We went out for a coffee date last week, sparks flew right away, I really wanted to keep it a 1-hour thing, but 1 hour turned to 2, 2 turned to 3 and he grabbed my hand, he wouldn’t let go of it, and by hour 4, he really let his feelings out… I told him I had practiced driving and that I was planning on egtting swimming lessons. He didn’t take the surprise well at all, he said I was spitting in the face of all the reasons he broke up with me, that he felt hurt that I could do so well without him, like he wasn’t important to me, that I didn’t need him, that in my life he’d left no mark, that he was confused, had never felt this way, and didn’t know what to do.

    That is so far from the truth, ok, I realized I can achieve great things without him, but there was not a day when I didn’t wish he was there by my side, and somehow I can’t make him see that. The speeches I’ve been preparing are so so long, I don’t really know which stand to take as I don’t know if him caring so much means he’d like to get back together (I’d love to), I don’t know if I’d be scaring him away if I proposed it to him in my speech.

    Girls, what should I do? How do I show him how much he really means to me?



  82.  #82Rori Raye on November 30, 2009 at 9:40 pm

    Mina, Welcome – and I’m not quite sure how to help you. Are you in a different culture from the one I’m familiar with in America? Do you work or are you at school? How old are you? I totally get why he broke up with you if you are a grown woman with no means of support and no interests in life – but I don’t get why he would be offended now. I’m so glad you’re driving…all you need to say is what you said to us…I felt so bad and missed you so much, I understood how what you said was so right, and I wanted to build myself up…I don’t understand why you’re offended….Love, Rori



  83.  #83Mina on December 1, 2009 at 2:01 am

    Hi, Rori… you’re right, I am from a different culture, it does show, doesn’t it? Relationships have different dynamics from place to place, it would be so interesting to study that.
    We’re both college students on our early 20s.
    As of now I am preparing my speech as I will see him a few hours from now.
    Your advice is what has worked best with me, it is so profound that it takes more effort to put to use, it’s not just something you do, it’s something that comes from within, and I am ever so thankful for your wisdom.

    Oh, he did finish with a winning phrase, he said: Surprise! Men are complex, too!
    Well, if thigs go wrong at least it will be a great experiment tomorrow. A little confession: I have always avoided admiting how I feel at every moment for fear of comming off as “corny” when I’m supposed to be “cool”. I know it sounds immature, but you’re right when you say that a lot of pressure is put on the modern female leader to be more like a man and less like a woman.



  84.  #84Michi on December 28, 2010 at 9:31 pm

    Hi Rori… or whoever reads this:

    I know my story is probably just like many women out there… maybe with few exceptions: I’m Spanish, he’s American… I’m 35 … he’s 21 … and I haven’t had a real boyfriend since I was 20… my love life has been a complete disaster… and I’ve mostly spent my life alone… obviously not my choice.
    I do not have troubles in attracting men at first… it’s the keeping them that doesn’t work, it simply doesn’t happen… I get scared that I’m going to loose him… and shy because I like him… I know all that I’m not supposed to do… but well going to the story: I met my friend some year and half ago and he had a girlfriend then. They broke up short after (not because of me) and we became really good friends… we would meet up… he would come from where he lives (1 hour by car) and spend time with me… we would text each other for hours and plan things together. Because we were just friends I could be myself… never felt threaten, pushed, scared or shy… A month ago things went more intense… and I thought I noticed some sexual vibe but nothing happened then. After that, another night at his place we had drunk quite a lot and he put me on top of him, took my shirt off and started carousing me… until I kissed him … and we had sex. The day after things go tense… he actually “panicked” and started showing me photos of previous girlfriends or told me people who he had slept with… and well… things have been quite weird since then, he’s not the same person he was… at least not with me.
    Short after, he was leaving for a month and as I was myself confused, I wrote him a letter explaining that how I felt (lots of “I feel” “I think” in there)… and he said it was ok between us… though I didn’t quite believe it…
    Text messages have reduced… and I think I normally start them when happen… and once he came he said he would come to visit… and instead he stayed on holidays somewhere else… and never came. When all this happened, I let him know that I was leaving to Spain (supposedly not to come back… there’s been a change in this now, I’m not leaving anymore, though he still doesn’t know it)… me leaving hasn’t changed anything… still no texts, or what seems to be no interested at all in me staying or leaving… and I’m really hurt… and I miss him… both as a friend and as something more… and well… as you can imagine I just want him back…
    and again… I’m lost and terribly scared that I lost my friend… and possibly someone I could be happy with… Any thoughts?



  85.  #85Rori Raye on December 28, 2010 at 11:50 pm

    Michi – Welcome – and thank you for your story – and I wish I could help you more – but he’s very young. He simply seems to not be ready for any kind of commitment – even to friendship. Circular Dating will teach you how to date. And that’s what you need. Love, Rori



  86.  #86Lovely Luna on July 26, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    Hi Ladies 🙂

    I really need some help!! I emailed Rori, but I’m sure she’s swamped and may not answer my personal question.

    I predict that the response I will get will be that one of us needs to move out, but I wonder if there’s another way…

    Here’s the deal: 2 1/2 years ago I moved into a house with 4 other students at my Massage/Holistics School. We all wanted to create a loving, supportive household where we could practice healthy living, compassionate communication and practice the healing modalities we were studying (massage, yoga, reiki, emotional release). We were 3 girls and 2 guys. Long story short, one of the guys stayed for a year, left to travel through India and asia for a year, and moved back into the house in March. Soon after, we began to realize there were ‘more than friends’ feelings between us. Before we had truly only been friends- I was blindsided for my feelings for him. I had never even considered him attractive!

    We had many conversations about it over a few months: how would it affect our friendship? how would it affect our roommates? Were these feelings worth acting on? Would they pass?….etc. We finally decided that since they were growing, we were compelled to act. Around the same time, a friend of ours passed and the high emotions propelled us into bed (mistake). For 2 weeks we were ‘together’ and then he told me that he loved me but thought we were just really good friends. I was really sad for a few days…even angry…and then I remembered that if he’s not the one, someone else is! 🙂

    He went away for 9 days, and when he came back we had missed each other, and went to bed again (mistake). I knew it was a mistake while it was happening, but went ahead with it anyway. We talked after and chose to go back to friends. I felt good about it, and started dating other people. Then he emailed me that he couldn’t stop thinking about me and imagining taking me on dates and buying me things….he said he knew it must be so confusing, but he’d like to know if he could take me out. I agreed. We went on a date, had fun….and DID NOT HAVE SEX. Still haven’t.

    I just don’t know what to do about it! If we didn’t live together I would CD….but how can I do that if we live together? It feels AMAZING to be with him, and we have a lot of meaningful things in common: spirituality, communication, health, music, friends. But who knows where this will go. And if I can’t CD, how do I manage myself if he goes hot and cold?

    I really believe that there is marriage potential between this man and I….and he’s a GOOD GUY. He’s always felt challenged getting dates with women, and over the time we’ve known each other has shared with me how sad that can make him feel. I feel deep admiration for his willingness to be vulnerable, honest, and to communicate about things that many people shy away from bringing up. He has emotional muscle, he’s financially stable (chooses to live with people he likes rather than on his own), he knows all of my history and loves me in spite of all the mistakes I’ve made AND there’s amazing chemistry between us. I would be crazy to pass up an opportunity to see where things could go!

    I hear you all in my head saying that one of us should move out. Maybe I’m wrong. Truthfully, I would have to move into another roommate situation (finances) and would be extremely hard-pressed to find anything comparable to what I have now. And I don’t want him to move out of the house. His presence is unifying and grounding, and I wouldn’t want to be here without him.

    What do I do? Please advise me.

    Sincerely
    Lovely Luna