If You Chase Him – Do You “Blow” It?

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It’s not the asking, the inviting, the doing…it’s about where that’s coming from inside you that attracts or repels a man.

And if you are a woman who instinctively wants to reach out, ask, invite, do – then chances are your entire “vibe” is about chasing a man down.

Chasing is the total opposite of warmth and openness.

If you have such a huge heart that you’re able to give and receive in full measure, and never shut down when love of any kind shows up, and are blissfully happy with a lifelong relationship – then you don’t need my help, and you don’t have to even consider if what you’re doing and thinking and saying looks like chasing.

But if you’re not having the success in love you want – chances are what you’re doing, thinking and saying is not working for you.

Chances are you shut yourself down around receiving love, and instead feel compelled to reach out to a man. And this marks your “vibe” as chasing.

So – in answering this question – keep in mind that it’s not WHAT you do or say at any given moment – it’s where what you’re doing and saying is coming from…and all of my Rori Raye Tools are designed to help you reformat your vibe.

Most often – this means staying away from anything that looks or feels like “chasing” – at least until you can clearly see and experience the patterns of how you feel and what your results with men are when you do, think and say certain things.

Here’s a letter from Rose about “chasing”:


You mentioned that if you chase a man, that would “blow it”. Are you saying that no matter how well suited you might be to him and how much affection he says he has, the second you chase, it’s all lost?

I hear stories all the time and am told that countless women make mistakes in relationships, but ultimately if the man is right they get through it. Aren’t we all to some degree afraid and therefore, prone to making mistakes and if every mistake drove a man away, surely we would all be single. Or are some mistakes worse than others?


Here’s my answer:

Rose – here’s the deal…working with me is not about “strategy” or  “mistakes.”

You HAVE to make mistakes as you’re shifting and changing…otherwise there’s no process to work with…!

It’s all about shifting your “vibe” so that you ATTRACT your Mr. Right and many, many other great men all at the same time.

If your “vibe” is that of a woman who “chases” – you lower your pool of men to men who WANT you to chase them – which means they’re going to be very feminine in nature and standoffish and not make you happy. You keep to your old patterns.

And here’s the big question – Why would you chase?

And the only answer is: You don’t believe, deep down that what you want will show up for you.

You believe you have to “work” for it…and that’s not the truth.

So – I want you to experiment with how chasing and not chasing – how you feel – compels you to act – and how those things you do affect how you feel.

While you’re practicing with men – their response is not important in any way except to HELP you, to guide you to undoing old patterns and experimenting with new things and shifting your vibe to what will work SO much better for you in the long run.

Individually calling a man, or inviting him somewhere, or winking at him on match.com is not the issue here….these things can work fine – it’s the ENERGY, the INTENTION – your EMOTIONS and vibe behind your DOING it that’s the KEY here.

We’re working on being “Rock Star Free Spirits” here – so that you can do Anything – as you say…

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1turquoise3 on April 9, 2011 at 8:00 am

    Hhhmmmmm….. thanks Rori. That makes me feel better. My nature is to nurture, and it felt really bad to think, I wouldn’t be able to cook for a man again, unless I was engaged 🙂 I love to cook, I make candy for a side business, and it’s written all over my profile… so to not offer, at least give them a sample of my candy, seemed inauthentic. So, I just need to figure out how to do it in a non-chasing manner, and that will come from my vibe.

    With the last guy I dated, he wouldn’t ever let me pay, which is a first in a REALLY long time, so I said.. well, then I’ll just make you dinner sometime. He loved it, never cooked for himself, and was sooo complimentary of my cooking, made me want to do it again. In 2 months, it was only 3 times, so I thought that was ok. The relationship didn’t last, but it scared me to think that because I was nice to him, that came across as chasing.

    I know I still need to find a balance, when I meet someone I like, it’s hard for me to not get excited and start doodling our names together. It’s just rare I meet someone I feel could even be a potential match. I know I still have a lot of work to do, but this article makes me realize that I don’t have to change who I am, just how I come across. 🙂 THANK YOU!

  2.  #2Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 8:05 am

    Thanks Rori. Chasing I guess is a difficult thing for us to stop.

  3.  #3Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 8:09 am

    For me “And the only answer is: You don’t believe, deep down that what you want will show up for you.

    You believe you have to “work” for it…and that’s not the truth” this is a profound truth that I am working on.

  4.  #4Alonka on April 9, 2011 at 8:17 am


    Yes, our situations feel different in a sense that you really liked your guy and I was more in the mood – we have a lot in common, I like the way he lives his life (as much as I know of it), he’s smart, worldly, etc. so he may get me if he really tries. Will he be the love of my life? No.

  5.  #5Turtle Girl on April 9, 2011 at 8:17 am

    I use to “cook for men” all the time. I don’t ever do it now. Rarely, and only if he brings the “bacon home” to me to cook. And then, it is still iffy. I might just say thanks for the groceries.

    I find that it does depend on the circumstances, but in general, overall, men need to take us out or cook for us. When I do the “giving” it is a turn off for them. They are the providers and it is coded in their DNA. After marriage then its a bit different of course, but while the courting and mating phase is going on, I don’t do this.

    It has improved my relationships with men tremendously. Doormat to Diva basically. Social training to be all, do all for the men and worship at the alter of him is backwards and damaging to both male and female alike.

    When a guy feel like he has “nothing to work for” he feels like he is not needed. When a guy can’t provide for you he feels less than a man.
    It’s humiliating for him. This all comes straight from the men I know who have been honest with me.

  6.  #6femenergylove on April 9, 2011 at 8:18 am

    my whole vibe feels off.have not heard from guy in a week,i know he is sroting things out.but i decided to call.his phone was off.which i feel good it was.but i’m feeling needy and wanting and abandoned by EVERYONE.went out into the sun today by myself….sat for 3 hours enjoying it,then wanted company.none of my friends was answering their phones.i felt so lonely and alone.theni called him.his phone was off.now i’ve come back home,to get into bed and cry …get through and feel this abandonment and stop feeling so bad.
    we had a great weekend last weekend,when he left he hugged me real close ad kissed me goodbye.hours before his phone had been ringing constantly.it was his ex girlfriend.he did not pick up.when we parted it was on a good note,but i left him alone this week,giving him space to sort out whatever is going on.i’m feeling calm and strong inside.but i crumbled today and i feel bad about it,and was beating myself up about it.
    do i really believe what i want will come?not right now i think.if i really did then why did i call?

  7.  #7Emerson on April 9, 2011 at 8:20 am

    #3 FW I still fall into the idea that I have to work for it. Because my Dad was indifferent about me for a long time until I helped him with his business when it was having some major issues and he was managing it all on his own. After that, he was so much nicer to me. This was in my early 20s.

    I think that set the tone for how I interact with my relationships.

  8.  #8SummerBaby on April 9, 2011 at 8:21 am

    Well, here I am seeing the same guy past the normal point of one of us disappearing. So what did I do different this time?

    I think the biggest difference that the tools seem to help so much with is changing your inner beliefs from the voice that asks, “what’s wrong with me?” to a new voice that is confident of “what’s right with me?” When you really start to know who you are and can feel it, your vibe changes in such a big way. You can still be insecure and have moments of anxiety and self doubt, but there’s less time spent looking for flaws and thinking you need to FIX you.

    It’s definitely all about the energy underlying it.

    Great post. Thank you, Rori.


  9.  #9Emerson on April 9, 2011 at 8:22 am

    #4 Alonka

    Sounds good. I hope that you two can become friends and enrich each others lives in some way…

    and he’s free therapy as Rori says! 😉

  10.  #10Emerson on April 9, 2011 at 8:24 am

    I like this article because there are things that I do that I don’t realize are chasing actions.

    I want to lean baaaack……..and visualize what it is that is right for me in a relationship and it will come to me.

  11.  #11Emerson on April 9, 2011 at 8:25 am

    Summerbaby, I like the phrase “what’s right with me?”
    It is so *positive*…..thank you.

  12.  #12Alonka on April 9, 2011 at 8:27 am


    If I may ask why you did not feel that you can enrich a man’s life? Was it about physical or emotional attraction? If you feel that you’d rather be quiet about it and not discuss or you can manage on your own please ignore the question 😉

  13.  #13Turtle Girl on April 9, 2011 at 8:28 am

    Afterthought. The men in my life over the years who absolutely adored me and wanted me for theirs were guys who “did for me”. I rarely did anything for them. Our society trains us that it is selfish, but I am telling you girls, this has been the truth of my experience. I had five proposals in a year once and each man was taking me out, spending money on me and catering to me. I did nothing but show up and smile.

    I am in a thing with a man now, who I have done nothing at all (but be open and warm and loving) and he lives 1000 miles away.
    He has come up to visit three times in the last
    five months, asked for my hand in marriage,
    and is making plans to move to my town with the next few months.

    He just bought me a quite expensive gift that I would never have gotten for myself.
    It’s not because I cooked for him or rubbed his back or did anything at all. It is because I allowed him to be a man and do for me and give to me and all I did was stay open and in receiving mode, smile and say thank you so much I really appreciate what you did for me you sweet man. Men want to lead, give, and provide for you. They want soft on the outside women. They want a woman to “do for” and “be for”. It gives them purpose and they feel needed and appreciated. It is a gift we give to them and it’s effortless on our part when we finally get it.

    Those that don’t are girls and not worthy of our time. Just my humble opinion.

  14.  #14Turtle Girl on April 9, 2011 at 8:33 am

    #8 Summerbaby

    I had a date with a guy a couple years ago and I will never forget his words.

    He was talking about the gal he broke up with after three years.

    He said: “She was a great gal, she just didn’t know that”.

    Wow! He was saying there was NOTHING wrong with her. And there is nothing wrong with you or me. We are fine. We just need to live that and have that vibe or being authentic shine through. You are right-it’s the vibe!

  15.  #15Alonka on April 9, 2011 at 8:34 am


    Thank you! My plan is to do it in another week, who knows how I feel then! lol

    Hope you dream comes true! And you won’t have to work for it;) I have to say that I know examples of couples where women had to work on it and didn’t have to and it very individual.

  16.  #16Alonka on April 9, 2011 at 8:41 am

    Turtle Girl,

    Would you say that your guy is a kind who would say buy an expensive gift for a woman in general if a relationship is going well or this is something that he never did before?

  17.  #17Emerson on April 9, 2011 at 8:45 am

    #15 Alonka
    Thank you for your encouragement.

    Have a great day Alonka and all sirens out there!

  18.  #18turquoise3 on April 9, 2011 at 8:47 am

    Alonka, I posted to you on the last thread about not calling him. Just my opinion, but based on experience, the friend thing doesn’t last.

  19.  #19SummerBaby on April 9, 2011 at 8:48 am

    Thank you Emerson and Turtlegirl.

    Our culture and training teaches us to be less than. Don’t get too big for your britches. Who do you think you are? Don’t be conceited. Her nose is up in the air…

    We diminish ourselves because we don’t want people to think we are stuck up snobs. In the process, we forget how wonderful we really are. As women, we end up looking for men to make us feel wonderful and I think this ruins our vibe further. We diminish ourselves and encourage them (unconsciously, of course) to help us diminish ourselves further.

    We would all feel better if we continued to focus on what’s right with us. We are perfect just the way we are. We have more love to give when we feel more love for ourselves.


  20.  #20Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 8:54 am

    RE 7 Emerson thanks for that. I had done some reflection this week around my dad. When he was coughing up stuff I froze, saw and felt myself froze. My sister in law jumped in immediately and was a natural at picking up the slack. I have been depended upon by him to pick up some financial slack but I have some reservations about my competence going on in my head. I was also the leader in my family around academical achievement and I felt I got that designation from my father though I am not the first child. I appreciate what you say here and have looked at how I can improve my relationship with my father while he is still on the planet. I came to that realization in the hospital this week and that it will impact my relationships with men. It has me feeling soft maybe vulnerable and in some places weak but I am working through it.

  21.  #21Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 9:02 am

    Alonka I think we have some disconnect. There is one guy I felt that way with because he was more successful than I am. It is not something I have really ever focussed on. However, I now believe that focussing on enriching someone’s else life especially a man’s is coming from a needy place. I focus on enriching my own life and if a man wants to come on for the ride it is his gain. I like the Turtle Girl concept in 13 above and that is what I am trying to embrace. I don’t know about enriching anyone’s life. Only they know what they need to enrich their own lives.

  22.  #22Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 9:05 am

    Alonka I have to add that I cannot focus on enriching someone else’s life because I feel I would look for things to do for him to convince him that I am right for his life. That would add up to chasing him. As I said that is for me and how I feel, knowing me.

  23.  #23T-Girl on April 9, 2011 at 9:35 am

    My date last night was very nice. He BBQ’d ahi and salmon, we sat outside and talked for a long time. He didn’t try anything, he gave me a few hugs and quick kisses during the evening but that is about it. He talked about doing something on Sunday and perhaps me going with him to watch him play softball in the future. He sent me home with some leftovers on a really nice plate so I guess that means he has to get it back somehow 🙂 The only thing I didn’t like was he talked about sports alot!

    It was interesting because he also talked about women that he and his friend met on Match and were in relationships in…it really sounded like the women were taking the masculine roles. It was interesting to hear a male point of view.

  24.  #24Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 9:37 am

    CCarter’s words
    For most men, it’s easy to go from a meaningful and committed relationship to one that’s casual and purely physical.

    But, it is almost impossible to go from the “friends-with-benefits” situation to a deep, fulfilling, intimate and lasting situation.

    I know this first hand, both from my own love life and from talking to lots of men and women I’ve known in my life.

    So… rarely do I give rules, but here’s an absolute RULE when it comes to men –

    DON’T EVER try and start things with a man at a casual and purely physical level if you EVER want the option for something more meaningful or long- term.

    Men don’t work this way, like it or not.

    And don’t try to get a man BACK with physical attraction and sex either.

    It’s a dead end street.

  25.  #25Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 9:39 am

    The Feminine Power call on the East Coast has started.

  26.  #26Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 9:42 am


    You said, “I have made the mistake of admitting to a friend that I have feelings for him.”

    It’s NOT a mistake to share your feelings with a man.

    It IS a mistake to share your feelings with a man 1) too early and 2) in a negative context.

    You set yourself up for failure by choosing and “tolerating” a situation that just doesn’t work for you. That situation is being “ok” with a purely physical situation when in fact you need – and want – more.

    When you’re OK with the way things are one minute, but then are looking and asking for something more and saying you’re not happy with the way things are NOW, you’ve INSTANTLY become the kill-joy and antagonist in the relationship.

    One minute you’re blissfully happy in his embrace and then a day or two later you’re sulking and awkward because you just blurted out what you feel or what you want, and you’ve taken him by surprise.

    All because of a “talk” you wanted to have with him.

    Yeah, I’m riding you a bit hard here, but it’s for your own good.

    Instead of being open with yourself about what YOU are truly after, you pursued this “friends with benefits” strategy to get things moving.

    That’s why you’re freaking out.

    You thought you could handle it.

    You thought you’d get something out of it.

    And for a minute, it was fun.

    But then your feelings snuck up on you.

    Eventually you were reminded of what you’re really after with a man and what you value.

    Right now you have two pictures in your mind: One picture is of this “casual” thing going on. And the other one is what you actually want.

    The two pictures are so radically different and far apart from each other, that it’s no wonder you’re acting “insane.”

    Your expectations are COMPLETELY out of line for what you’re ACTUALLY doing with this guy.

    It’s time to stop creating situations in your life that you KNOW won’t make you happy or comfortable in the long run – even if they feel good in the moment.


    Starting things with a man in this “casual sex” way, is a SUREFIRE way to ruin your odds of creating something more meaningful in the future.

    I’m a guy.

    I know.

    But, more importantly, getting into a “casual” situation with a man you might want to date more seriously and exclusively, has a VERY HIGH potential to make you FEEL AWFUL.


    Unless you’re one out of a hundred thousand women that gets “swept off her feet” by an open, caring, great communicator, who makes moving into a committed relationship effortless… then you’re going to have to start asking yourself some real questions about what you really want from your love life.

    And once you have the answers, actually be honest about them from the start.

    Here’s an important question to ask yourself:


    And I do mean YOUR needs. Not his. Not what you’re accepting or tolerating or hoping to get from a man just because there’s nothing better around right now.

    Be clear here and think it through.

    I’ll give you a minute…

    Most of the women I know who are dating have a set of subconscious requirements from the men they’re seeing. That they be honest. That they be exclusive. That it’s going somewhere, and it’s not just going to be casual dating forever.

    But these aren’t things they are willing or able to communicate directly with the man they’re seeing.

    So, they end up in a situation that is anything but what they were looking for.

    They say, “This is fine for now. I’m just enjoying myself.”

    They are not being honest with themselves about their bottom-line “must-haves” and therefore can’t express these things to the man, either.

    From my experience, here are a few of these “must haves” that women often aren’t honest about at the start:

    – That any man they’re involved with, in any way, isn’t dating or still involved with another woman

    – That he’s open and ready to explore a serious relationship once they get to know each other

    – That they share the same values and priorities – or he can at least appreciate and support her values

    So, how in touch are you with your REQUIREMENTS to feel good when it comes to men and dating? And how do you communicate these to a man?

    Do you do it indirectly by acting frustrated and angry when your needs aren’t being met, after you’ve already become intimate and emotionally vested in the relationship?

    Or do you do it directly and in a positive context as things are GETTING STARTED, so you’re in sync from the get-go?

    Remember, 99% of the time, a man is NOT going to make the right decisions for you, or magically and telepathically recognize and meet all your needs.

    Sticking to a set of minimum standards and then communicating those helps show a man what it’s going to take to make you happy.

  27.  #27Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 9:43 am

    I have totally gotten this down. If there aren’t any dudes to chase, I don’t have to worry about it. 😉

    The well has dried up. HotGentleMan fell off the face of the earth as did the other five. One is still sniffing around but they all wanted ME to contact THEM and I refused. Damn it, if they want to see me, THEY need to make an effort to do so. I refuse to chase them.

    Even the one who is still sniffing around will send me a text saying, “I haven’t heard from you, are you still interested in meeting?” DUDE! I have yet to hear you ASK me for a date. I don’t want to play this game they often seem to play~ “You didn’t call me so I thought you weren’t interested” when in actuality, I have indicated interest more than they probably even realize.

    I am the GIRL, I am not the MAN.


  28.  #28Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 9:45 am


    I observed something FASCINATING about people and relationships a few years back.

    When we’re in a situation that causes bad feelings and friction of some kind, there is always some kind of “payoff” for one or the other person…and that’s why they persist in sticking with the bad situation.

    Here’s what you’re getting out of the “casual” thing…

    You get a safe and risk free path to get close to this guy. Even though technically you’re not “close” at all.

    I call this “working it from the ‘friend zone'”.

    After all, how vulnerable would you be if you shared what you REALLY were looking for up front, BEFORE you slept with him?

    You might be disappointed or rejected, or you would be unable to continue the “friendship” that you have right now.

    And maybe having to start over alone might actually be worse in your mind than having something crappy and low-quality that you’re “tolerating” now.

    But if you look deeper, you’ll probably see that your desire for something more was there all along underneath the surface. Therefore, I doubt that you could have been “just friends” with him anyway, even if you never slept together, without you feeling gypped in some way.

    That’s why you have to show a man that you’re strong and you know what you want, and you won’t settle for scraps or second-best or “good enough for now.”

    My favorite way of thinking about how to do this, is to be like a “velvet hammer.”

    Be strong and assertive, but warm and gentle at the same time.

    Say, “I really like you. Probably too much to be JUST friends. This is why I’m not sure we should continue this situation unless you feel the same way.”

    If you can say this in a way that doesn’t include BLAME or guilt or pressure from you, the response a man will give will be MAGICAL.

    He’ll open up and meet you at the level of honesty and respect you’re coming at him with.

    And as tough and as “bitchy” or self-centered doing this might sound right now, this is exactly what you need to say to a man if you really want something more with him.

    And doing this, and only this, can get you out of your “friends with benefits” situation and into a great relationship.

    Trying anything else is almost sure to end up in a series of misunderstandings and hurt feelings.

    But you might be thinking – WHY does this kind of language work with a man?

    Because it sends a strong SUBCONSCIOUS signal to a man that the woman is in CONTROL of her life and her world.

    There’s nothing that triggers more intense “long-term” attraction in a healthy and mature man, than a woman who he CAN’T control and doesn’t get thrown off-center when her needs aren’t met.

    Using the “velvet hammer” also has another AMAZING benefit that women don’t often recognize… or they don’t even see as a benefit at first.

    It WEEDS OUT the guys who DO need to go away because they’re never going to get their act together in the first place, or just don’t want to.

    You don’t want to be stuck in a dead-end situation that’s just going to make you feel WORSE than you felt before you met him, do you? Of course not.

    And sure, sometimes a guy will hear that and disappear for a while. But the best part is, if he’s one of the “good guys” you want to be with for the long-term, he’ll come back around.

    And when he does, he’ll have done all the leg work to be a better, more conscious partner. The kind of partner you could have never molded yourself through any amount of fixing or convincing.

  29.  #29Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 9:45 am

    Here is a video I feel deeply inspired by this morning..

    Woman….by Scorpions…the video is amazing…it does an amazing job emphasizing a woman’s power over the mind of a man…hmm…:)


  30.  #30Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 9:47 am


    Ever hear of “approval-seeking” behavior?

    It’s when we try to do and say things simply to get a positive reaction or judgment about ourselves from someone else.

    Well, it’s a HUGE MISTAKE to make with a man early on.

    Your need for your guy’s APPROVAL is your worst enemy right now.

    To him, what you’re doing is actually the complete OPPOSITE OF ATTRACTIVE.

    I’ll give you an example…

    Have you ever seen what it looks like when a man is shamelessly seeking the approval of a woman?

    As he’s just getting to know her and he sees that she hasn’t completely made up her mind to want to be with him, what does he do?

    He buys her gifts.

    He calls her all the time.

    He offers to do favors and errands for her.

    All these are attempts to prove to her that he’s good enough to be with her or to get her attention. This is also known as the “really nice guy” approach.

    Women just never seem to quite “feel it” for the super nice guy. Not because of the gifts and flowers and favors, anyway.

    A guy can already be attractive AND do nice things. Agreed?… But doing nice things doesn’t MAKE a man more attractive.

    Instead of feeling attracted to a guy you weren’t too “into” at first, you start losing respect for him when he goes overboard and tries too hard with the calls, favors and gifts.

    You lose respect because you know you can CONTROL him.

    This isn’t conscious, either. It’s just how you feel, and feelings are pretty powerful forces.

    Ever stop to think that the same thing might work in reverse between a woman’s behavior and a man’s? That a man may feel like he can “control” you if you’re running around trying to please him or do favors for him or be “nice” to him in order to get him to want you?


    For men, approval-seeking behavior KILLS the spark that comes from the uncertainty of not knowing exactly how the women he’s with is going to think and act.

    If he can predict what you’re going to do and feels like he “has” you in the palm of his hand, what is he going to wonder about when it comes to you?

    And what if you start acting predictably NEGATIVE?

    Think about it…

    It’s a “natural tension” and challenge of not having CONTROL and uncertainty that creates strong ATTRACTION in men.


    What most women ask in situations when a man isn’t responding the way they want him to is…

    “WHY is he acting this way and how do I make sense of it and “fix” it?”

    Well, you can’t “fix” a man. And I really feel for you if you’re one of those women who are trying.

    But, you CAN change a situation and the FEELINGS that a man is having for you. You can change how he experiences you.

    The toughest and most important thing to understand is that men’s behavior and thinking in these situations isn’t at all LOGICAL.

    In other words, how a man reacts doesn’t make ANY “sense” and doesn’t follow any rhyme or reason.

    So, of course, it baffles and frustrates women when they run it through their own “sense- making filters.”

    Let me ask you a question…

    If you were an attractive man, would you want to find a woman that you had to TEACH how to make you attracted and feel good… or would you want a woman who just “got it” on her own… “naturally” and everything flowed?

    Duh. (there’s that scientific word again)

    You’d want the woman who already “got it.”

    So, more likely than a conspiracy against women, men just naturally respond to women who GET IT, and DON’T respond to women who DON’T.

    OK, let’s talk about these concepts a little bit more.

    Attraction, and wanting to be with a woman, is about a man perceiving that he and a woman are “naturally compatible” because his emotional and physical sparks fly when he’s around her.

    NOTE: I did NOT use the word “logical” here.

    Attraction and wanting to be with a woman long term is NOT the result of a man meeting a woman and then thinking to himself:

    “Let’s see…she’s got a good job, works hard, is pretty cute, and is a really good person… Hmmm, I think that we have some natural attraction going on here.”


    For a man, attraction and the desire to be with a woman, and stay with her, is either THERE or it ISN’T.

    There are no two ways about it.

    Fortunately for you I’ve put together and entire program just about attraction: how it works for a man, how to trigger it, what to avoid doing so you don’t accidentally “kill” it.

  31.  #31Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 9:48 am


    I adore you. Thank you for checking in on me.

    I am still down in the soup so to speak, but my son is home with me this weekend and that feels so good.

    I have to admit, I am struggling with his growing up. This summer, he is getting a job working with a cable crew, working alot of hours and making some excellent money. By the end of the summer, he will have made approximately 18 grand.. Of course, he is driven by this for obvious teenage boy reasons…Car. Laptop.. new TV… etc etc etc

    It makes me weep and has been for a while. I encourge him, I WANT him to be independent and self-sufficient and have been raising him to be this way since birth practically, and I couldn’t be prouder of the man he is becoming. BUT, I didn’t think it would hurt so much to let go.

    Damn tears.

    So, this sadness just adds to everything else that feels off right now.

    Keep sending those hugs, girl. I need them.


  32.  #32Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 9:53 am


    I am not bashing men here, I am just venting. I am frustrated.

    Truth is, I Looovvvvveeee Men.


  33.  #33Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 9:53 am


    I believe that herein “I have indicated interest more than they probably even realize” lies your answer.
    Maybe for future tweak the way you say it, so they can “hear” you? How can you create clarity for them, maybe?

    “I am the GIRL, I am not the MAN” I feel your passion here and am wondering if you have said this exact thing to any one of them. Maybe respond to one of the texts with this same line.

  34.  #34Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 9:55 am

    RE 32 Does not come across as you bashing them, for me it sounds like you are trying to understand your process.

  35.  #35Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 9:58 am

    13: Turtle Girl~
    I love this sentance right here:

    “thank you so much I really appreciate what you did for me you sweet man.”


  36.  #36Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 10:00 am

    Since learning about Rori’s tools back in October of last year, I feel as if I am getting myself back…my sense of self that is…

    Not chasing a man…is the biggest gift I can give to myself…and that feels like a chain being removed from my ankles…

    Not chasing a man…is extra time I give to myself…and that feels like taking care of myself, being kind to myself…

    Not chasing a man…is powerful…and that feels like I am “all that”…self-assured the right man is there for me when I am ready…

  37.  #37Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 10:02 am

    DE says “Not chasing a man is the gift I give myself”. That feels good and I am trying to identify the different ways that I have chased in the past.

  38.  #38SummerBaby on April 9, 2011 at 10:04 am


    my email is summerbabychica@yahoo.com if you’d like to continue this discussion outside the blog. I feel your pain with your son, I am just a tad further along than that as mine both fledged the nest at the same exact time.

    I thought I’d be stronger, too. lol

    when one says are you still interested, text back, it’s difficult to accept a date when one hasn’t been asked yet. 😉

    Be sure to include the winky face.

    If he doesn’t get that one, he needs an anvil to fall on him ala warner bros cartoon style.


  39.  #39turquoise3 on April 9, 2011 at 10:06 am


    Are you a very literal woman? Take everything someone says to mean exactly that? You seem to really focus on specific words someone says, even after they’ve explained what they mean by it. I don’t think Alonka is saying they could enrich each others’ lives as in going totally out of her way, or over comensating, trying too hard… etc. I think she is saying she met someone who she admired, they had similar interests and other interests that they both expressed wanting to learn more about something the other knew about. I don’t think she should contact him now, because that is leaning forward, but I do think it’s possible, even necessary in life when making new friends, to be able to give and receive in a healthy way, whether they are men or women. I know I get off balance, give more than I receive, way more in fact, so that is something I really need to work on. Even with some of my friends, I have “given until it hurt” to get very little back in return. I’ve had to end friendships that were very draining on me, for my own well being. IT was still extremely sad, but necessary.

    You don’t talk much about yourself, mostly you post excellent and pertinent information by different coaches. Sometimes I wonder how you find it so quickly. 🙂 You must have it organized very well 🙂 I didn’t realize you even had children, or were divorced. I’d love to hear your story. Would be nice to know where you are coming from 🙂

  40.  #40Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 10:19 am

    turquoise3 Sorry if I triggered you but yes others indicate that I tend to be technical in that way. Both here and in my real life. I try to do that here because I have men in my life who I notice tend to focus on individual words to explain how I might be wrong or how I understand things. It is more than one guy I have noticed doing that and think it might be a thing that guys do. I just wanted to point it out here so it could get in people’s consciousness to see in real life if they notice that too. I am glad you picked up on it because I have not been convinced that we have paid attention to that. Remember how EMK said that we nickpick on things he said and tried to elaborate on specific things. That I think is an example.

    But yes I feel guys focus on specific words because they understand it differently than us and I believe that is somewhat of an indication of the differences between men and women communication. Now that you have started this conversation I am hoping others look at it also. Thanks.

  41.  #41Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 10:20 am

    I have actually inspirsed my history in comments I have made in the past.

  42.  #42Jilly on April 9, 2011 at 10:20 am

    Wow…i’ve been catching up on the blog since i left yesterday afternoon (all emotional) and the feeling of the blog is beautiful!! 🙂 sirens uplifting each other…i felt so good reading through all the posts…

  43.  #43Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 10:23 am

    The place I come from is to share as much information as possible to help who might be interested. I receive many free enewsletters from different coaches as well as recorded interviews. Please ignore if you find it does not help you. It might be helpful to others.

  44.  #44Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 10:23 am


    I have a great visual of the anvil dropping.

    Perhaps I need to be more direct when letting a man know that I am interested. Perhaps, HELL YES would work better than Yes, I would enjoy having dinner with you.

  45.  #45Lily T. on April 9, 2011 at 10:26 am

    @#44 LOL!!!

  46.  #46Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 10:27 am

    33: Funny thing is, the one man who is still sniffing around, who has asked if I am still interested, is one man that I was quite clear about that with. I told him that it doesn’t feel good for me to call a man, after all, I am the girl.

    His response was, good for you, then I shall call as a gentleman should. No call, just texts of insecurity and “you haven’t called” or “I haven’t heard from you.”


  47.  #47Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 10:28 am



    Seriously, I may have to try that approach, Lily.


  48.  #48Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 10:28 am

    Well lilybelle he obviously heard you so I would guess that he might be a boundary pusher?

  49.  #49Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 10:31 am

    Could very well be and I am not letting him get through them. I refuse to call, initate texts etc. He may just be trying to see what I am made of.

    This is an interesting way to view this and I appreciate the work through on this.

    As always, FW, I appreciate you. You teach me tons!


  50.  #50Senior Lady Vibe on April 9, 2011 at 10:31 am

    Hello, world.

    Thanks to Darling Ella. May the stroke of midnight April 15 stir desire in the heart of her soul mate life partner and alert him to seek her, find her and claim her forever.


  51.  #51Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 10:32 am

    And, FW. I feel very connected to you. You have no idea how much you helped me when I first arrived here.

    Gratitude for you.

  52.  #52Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 10:33 am

    42: Jilly?

    Are you okay today?


  53.  #53Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 10:38 am

    turquoise3 To continue the conversation check out 26 above. To me this man focussed on the specifics of “They say, “This is fine for now. I’m just enjoying myself.” He did not want to hear anything else. I have heard 2 other female coaches suggest revisiting such types of conversations suggesting to apologizing to the guy “I am sorry I might have misled you in some way, we are not on the same page and I need to leave the relationship to go look for what I really want”. One suggests that if you are living with the man, pick a date and move out even if you have to stay with a girlfriend for a while until you find your own apartment. One also suggests that when communicate about getting out of a relationship we should use the words “it is a gut feeling. We are not on the same page”. Her reasoning is that guys will ask why why why to pick apart our logic. She says we should not explain ourselves because most men will not argue with your gut feeling or intuition.

    My point here is to pay attention to how we comminicate and see if we notice guys picking out specific words. It is something I have noticed. Remember Rori also suggests “choose your words” as part of her mantra, I wonder if she has similar experiences why that is included?

  54.  #54Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 10:40 am

    RE 51 lilybelle I am so grateful that I can help. That for me is one of the most rewarding thing about being here.

    There is a guy friend I have who always repeats the words consciousness and awareness to me. 5 years ago when he started saying it for some reason he was more like a fly buzzing around me head. I never heard him. Now that I am here I hear him loud and clear, we discuss it and he keeps coming back and reminding me how he used to tell me years ago and how I could not hear him.

  55.  #55Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 10:42 am

    SLV #50

    Wow…I feel tearful 🙂 Thank you…Blessing others with good will is a blessing one gives to him/herself!!! May it all come true!!!

    Lots of love and hugs,

  56.  #56Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 10:45 am

    I have seen something to the effect here “dam**mit it hurts me to see you not take your life seriously. I love you”. This is a paraphrase to say that “hell YES” might just work with some, if that is what he wants.

  57.  #57Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 10:50 am

    Yes, FW and doesn’t Rori “bless” experiementing and also indicates that you can’t do it wrong?

    Might be worth a try to see what would happen. I am aware that some men really do prefer the most direct approach possible, that way they hear you loud and clear and Hell Yes, is about as loud and clear as a girl can get. lol

    Although, it isn’t the most feminine approach.

  58.  #58Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 10:51 am

    jilly great to see you here. Hope you got through all the emotions and are now settled.

  59.  #59Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 10:54 am

    lilybelle the last time I saw one of mine he was telling me his phone isn’t ringing anymore. I guess that was his way of asking me to start calling him again. This was several months ago. Sometimes he crosses my mind but I have not called and I have not looked at his facebook. It is a challenge to myself to see if I can really lean back. He has disappeared in the past for months and have come back. I can identify where I flip to the masculine and possibly push him away but yes, practice it is and noticing myself.

  60.  #60Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 10:57 am


    I have to share this …

    Last nite I had a lovely first date. He seems a very nice man…with exotic background…for my taste…

    Chemistry…i didn’t feel a strong attraction…:( but maybe that’s a good thing…

    Anyhow, towards the end of our dinner he looks at me…smiling…and says…”I am thinking of the word feel that you use…”…

    I looked surprised and said…”Oh, really?”…
    He adds “I mean in a good way…I never had anyone use this word before in a sentence…i don’t know how to describe it hearing it, but it feels…sensual…oh, no not really…i think heartfelt, warm…i like it…i like to hear that a woman feels good to hear from me…” and then he says…”it must be because u are European”…I almost choked…lol

    I responded all smiley…”oh, wow…thank you…it feels good to hear that ;)”

  61.  #61Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 11:00 am

    Fw, and the most basic of truths for me is..

    If he was for me, nothing would stop him from being with me… and that includes when I lean back.

    Not exactly the right wording but it’s the truth in it’s simplest form.

  62.  #62Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 11:02 am

    turquioise3 I also remember CCarter talking about “sacrificing” as a strategy women use, as well as the relationship debt. I am not sure if you are one who does not like the way he expresses himself and yes I have to review to see what he said about both but giving until it hurts triggered that memory for me. If I am not mistaken he suggests that is the reason many women lose themselves in the relationship and express that after breaking up. I believe that is one reason Rori teaches about leaning back also so that we don’t get to that place that ends up sometimes causing us to be resentful when in truth and in fact we were not requested to sacrifice anything. I have had more than one guy in the past tell me they wanted nothing and I felt hurt at the time but now I understand more what they meant. So until they ask for something I am not giving and even at times when they ask I say no. Just yesterday one asked me can I get a date with you. I said no but he repeated I am asking anyway and I will continue asking.

  63.  #63Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 11:05 am

    DE though that was addressed to Rori thanks for sharing that experience. It was heartwarming to read.

  64.  #64Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 11:09 am

    Rereading 39 just now it occured to me that maybe I am bringing that out in the men that I interact with and maybe it is not necessarily the way men are. hhhmm interesting. I would love to hear other people’s experience around that and again turquoise3 thanks for shining a light on one of my patterns. If that is the way guys really are it could be a masculine pattern that I have that pushes guys away or maybe just a pattern that generally does not work in relationships? If so I wonder how I could change that??? hhhhhhmmmmm

  65.  #65Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 11:12 am


    I feel glad you like it 🙂

    How is your dad feeling? How are you feeling these days? Not sure if you posted ab it…i didn’t get the chance to catch up on posts..

    Warm hugs,

  66.  #66T-Girl on April 9, 2011 at 11:13 am

    DE, I love what you wrote about your date picking up on using the word “feel”. I still have such a hard time with that slipping into conversation. I think I made good strides though on my date last night…physically leaning back and looking him in the eyes and thinking “I am the air you need to breathe”. One thing I noticed when I did that – we were standing in his kitchen after dinner talking and when I would think that sentence he would move away from me to a different part of the kitchen sometimes. I wonder what that meant? I”m not going to overanalyze the date, but parts of the date he talked about future plans with me, would come up to me and hug me and other parts of the date he was moving away from me even though I was doing the lean back thing. I guess only time will tell if I end up hearing from him again. But the good thing is this is the first guy that I have totally used all my new found tools from the beginning.

  67.  #67Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 11:14 am

    RE 65 He is doing much better and out of the hospital. Can you tell by my many comments that I am back to my old self? Thanks for asking.

  68.  #68Daria on April 9, 2011 at 11:14 am

    Hell yes not feminine? I don’t see it that way.

    I have noticed when I am practicing new boundaries they are tested thoroughly by the universe.

    when I state new boundary men may push me on it, and even a round or several rounds of men may disappear. I may even remain with almost no men for awhile.

    Right now I am working on I don’t want a phone/text buddy. They keep trying to initiate that with me and are getting my answers. I am being tested in that it has come up with men I enjoy talking to, persistent men, even a man I’m in love with. I stated my boundary. This is solidifying and integrating my boundary in the energy of ‘me’ to heal this completely.

  69.  #69Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 11:18 am

    RE 66 Him picking up on the word feel helps to confirm my suspicion that guys focus on specific words we use. I also see another coach that suggests that the brain is the sexiest organ and to use communication to seduce a man’s mind so he can’t get us out of it. I also believe that when guys tell us that they remember specific things we say years later is an indication that they focus on words that could possibly generate some emotional memory in their cells. What do you think?

  70.  #70Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 11:19 am

    Daria do you keep repeating your answers or do you ignore the texts after you establish the boundary?

  71.  #71Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 11:19 am


    I feel glad your dad is out of the hospital..and you are back to your “old” self…:) I try to practice not making assumptions…sometimes when I talk too much…or get involved in many activities is to avoid deeper feelings…

    I feel reassured to hear you are feeling good though 🙂

    Warm hugs,

  72.  #72tinque on April 9, 2011 at 11:27 am

    “choose your words” – simply put, choosing your words would be about changing your old patterns of maybe blaming, making wrong, using the word “you”, and it’s also about sinking into your body to check in how you feel and nos so much about what you think though obviously there will be thoughts expressed as well.

    I totally agree with Daria that a “hell yes” is totally sireny, goddessy, and feminine if it comes from your heart.


  73.  #73Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 11:29 am

    FW: #69:

    I am not so sure it’s the word itself overall…they pick up on the word…but I think is more than that…it’s the energy stimulated by it …

    My understanding is that Rori is encouraging us to use the word feel because opens our hearts/channels of receiving and in turn will inspire a man’s heart (the right man) to connect with us…

    Warm hugs,

  74.  #74tinque on April 9, 2011 at 11:30 am

    Femininewoman – hugs to you and smiles that your daddy is doing better.


  75.  #75Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 11:32 am


    I feel glad you felt inspired by my last nite experience…

    You are right…trying to analyze why he did this or that…is does not help you…I try to stay present as to how I feel in his presence when I do this or that…instead of when he does this or that…

    Baby steps 🙂

    Warm hugs,

  76.  #76turquoise3 on April 9, 2011 at 11:33 am

    I had to take my girls to softball and will be heading out soon to a housewarming party, and then out with a guy friend from hs who is here visiting from California. He’s married, just a friend. 🙂

    Not sure if I’ll get a chance to get back on here today or not… but just wanted to say, FW, when I read your response to my post, the first thought that came to mind… was, well, are you trying to focus on your masculine energy if you equate that with men? Are you trying to have a masculine energy on the blog? I think we can all focus on certain words, things we may not be expecting to hear, so they jump out at us. When Todd mentioned my vibe…. it stood out to me. I just meant you seem to take things very literally, and wondered if you leave a little room for interpretation? I do think it’s important to focus on what a man tells us, but also his actions… and sometimes I find I have to read between the lines because they don’t know how to express themselves verbally.

    Sometimes your responses remind me of my ex-husband. I would share a problem, and he’d give me a solution. He’d express what he knew or learned about an issue, as a solution to me. Sometimes it was very helpful, and sometimes I just wanted him to listen, without trying to fix me/it.

    I haven’t been here that long, so I really don’t know your story.

    Off to enjoy the warmer weather 🙂 Will try to get back later.

    DE- LOVE IT! 🙂

  77.  #77tinque on April 9, 2011 at 11:33 am

    Yes Darling Ella, that’s it, yet it is more about us. The open hear and the vulnerability, the realness and authenticity is what inspires a man to feel safe with us and thus open to us.


  78.  #78Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 11:34 am

    Thanks Tinque.

    I have to figure out how raise my vibe while at the same time stop being a literal woman. Maybe I am bringing that out in guys.

  79.  #79Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 11:38 am

    RE 76 Interesting. Might be a part of my general masculine pattern that I was unconscious of. I am looking to become intimate with myself and to heal patterns that don’t work so this feels good to me.

  80.  #80Daria on April 9, 2011 at 11:38 am

    Fw – I do both depending on how I feel. Right now I got a ‘hey’ and I don’t want to respond.

  81.  #81Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 11:46 am

    Okay, today I feel like sharing…:) Lol

    This week, I signed up for dancing lessons at the Fred Astaire studio.

    Although financially speaking, I could say this is the craziest thing to do…my heart feels like fire and light…:) I feel it is the best decision I made for myself in a very long time…

    I wanted to be a dancer/entertainer since I was little, but it was considered a “bad” thing in my culture…so, I suppressed it for a very long time that part of me…

    Many people ask me…what is you hobby…i could never say I had one…ever :(…i like many things…but nothing that I felt WOW about it…and now, I finally found my wow…and I am not afraid to explore it 🙂

    My trainer is Cuban …Hot!!! It makes the dancing lessons even more exciting 🙂

    It’s time for some action…for me…:)

  82.  #82Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 11:47 am

    aaahhh That sounds like Goddess Daria. Would Rock Star Daria respond because she does not give a …….. what he would think about her response?

  83.  #83Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 11:49 am

    Congrats DE you kind of sound like me. I told my daughter the other day I am going to sign up for one during the summer. You have inspired me.

  84.  #84Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 11:51 am

    Tinque #77:

    Thank you so much for giving me feedback…It feels very reassuring that I am on the right track here 🙂 I often feel unsure…so feedback feels awesome!!!

    Warm hugs,

  85.  #85Jilly on April 9, 2011 at 11:51 am

    Thanks Lilybelle and FW…also Alonka and Camile from the other thread…it feels good to know everyone cares cause i really care about everyone here…ok i’m in a really mushy lovey dovey mood lol

    Dang it i wish i had more time to post but i’ve been getting phone calls all morning and now hotpilot is on his way over 🙂

    i am feeling better…i definitely have a lot of emotions going on…and i want to process on here but it will have to wait until tomorrow and i want to respond to other posts…DE i really liked your “and that feels like… post” it was beautiful

    lilybelle you are such a siren…even if you don’t feel your own vibe it feels open and authentic and vulnerable to me

    k ill be back soon! 🙂

  86.  #86Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 11:55 am

    Thank you FW 🙂

    Lets aspire to be a Cha Cha Cha Divas 🙂 lol

    Warm hugs,

  87.  #87T-Girl on April 9, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    @DE good for you about the dance lessons! I took one and it is so much fun. I also found on Meetup.com there are also dance meetups at various dance studios where I live. They have lessons for $7 pp where anyone from beginner to advanced can go.

  88.  #88Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 12:06 pm


    Yes, the package I signed up for has unlimited private group parties…and four private lessons iwth a trainer…the studio is in a very nice area..with a great reputation…and i noticed they often go out with the students in other places for exposure…

    So, yes…it’s a great community for me to connect with people with a similar interest…and hopefully, I meet the one here too 🙂 One of my criteria, is that he knows or he is willing to learn to dance with me 🙂

    Warm hugs,

  89.  #89Lily T. on April 9, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Lily T. says: “Hell Yes to Cha Cha Cha Divas! 🙂

  90.  #90Daria on April 9, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    Fw – I don’t respond because it doesn’t feel good to do so. I get a drainy feeling imagining it.

    Ive already shared in the past that I don’t want to text or talk unless it’s about a plan to meet.

    I don’t want to say anything more at this time… I feel bored and want to drop the ‘hey’ out of my airplane.

  91.  #91Daria on April 9, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    I feel so excited that I don’t Want a phone connection anymore to assuage my feeling lonely, and instead am able to use the time to do stuff for me!

    I feel afraid it’s temporary, but I know it’s going to last even if I step off.

    This is awesome for me.

  92.  #92LD on April 9, 2011 at 12:28 pm



    I swear our lives are parallel. My son is only 16, but has a great study/work opportunity in front of him right now to go live with his dad overseas which would result in a really good job for him after he graduates. I have always been prepared that he might want to live with his dad and work in his dad’s country, but now that it’s a possibility that it might happen in the next few months, I didn’t realize how hard it was gonna be to actually let him go one day….

  93.  #93Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 12:30 pm


    One more thing I wanted to share….

    There is another Siren here (I will let her reveal herself when she is ready) that for the past two months, she and I been using your tools in a duo…:)

    We complement one another…so, when we go out together…it is indeed a blast…:) Men from all sides want our attention…:) Double Siren power!!! Giving each other feedback right the way…feels awesome and it increases our awareness to what we do/say…and how we feel about it…sharing feels good…

    Tonite, we are invited to two parties…I feel greedy as in we are going to both 🙂

    Warm hugs,

  94.  #94LD on April 9, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Making myself pretty and girly for my date with HotArmyGuy tonight. That makes 3 dates with him in a week PLUS he came to see me at work last night. Everyone at work loved him and so far all of my friends we’ve run into out have too.

    This one is really impressing me right now. I told him I was taking 2 days off from work at the end of May to take my boys to another city 7 hours away to fly off to their dad’s country for the summer and how emotional that time always is for me. This year it’s even worse, because my oldest is going to make a decison about whether he wants to go live there and study there instead of go to college here in my country. HotArmyGuy actually offered to drive me there and back so that I would not have to drive in an emotional state like that!

    I haven’t seen any red flags or even flaws with him yet except his spelling isn’t great lol. I’m normally a grammar nazi, but if he’s this great in every other area, I think I can deal with the bad spelling and grammar….

    Oh, and did I mention one of the best kissers I’ve EVER kissed in my life? : )

  95.  #95Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 12:42 pm


    Wow…I feel excited and happy reading your stories 🙂

    It seems u are also into exotic men 🙂 I feel curious, what country is your ex from ?

    Warm hugs,

  96.  #96LD on April 9, 2011 at 12:45 pm


    My ex husband is from Holland and both of my children were born there…

  97.  #97Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    Wow…thank you for sharing…:) I sure miss Europe 🙂

    Warm hugs,

  98.  #98Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    FW – from other thread – it seems like the men you describe who took years to “decide” lean more toward the “player” and/or narcissistic variety. Which makes complete sense – they are accustomed to variety so it’s a very hard choice to settle down. My social circle is comprised of ppl with more “old-fashioned” (?) values – more inclined to follow love and pair-bond – so it takes way less time to decide. In fact, the men are usually sure before the women are.

  99.  #99Daria on April 9, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    I am dressing up and looking fantabulous and creative and rockstar and amazing

    And my mom just demanded then asked me please not to go out looking like this but I feel sooo amazing and beautiful I love it!

    And I’m still feeling awesome!

  100.  #100Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    Some thoughts about my journey…………
    I found Rori thanks to Christian Carter. What I have found is that they have similiarities and they have differences. I appreciate both because they seem to complement each other and I feel are not threatened by each other though they work in the same industry. Both promote each other’s work, I think. I have interviews from both that they did with each other. In my mind they respect each others work and believe that each opinions and points are valid.

    Putting that in context of the EMK appearance here. I imagine that Rori must have felt he had something to share from his experience and that we here would gain something from his insights. In rejecting his opinions I have a sense that to a certain extent we have rejected Rori’s way in being warm, open and inviting to men. She must have invited him to certain extent because he believes in some way that his opinion or experience is valid.

    I was thinking just now about the song, you are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars. You have a right to be here and whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

    I am wondering if in our response we were telling him you have no right to be here? I feel some of the comments were caustic and have been a bit bothered by it. Though I cannot tell people how to think or express themselves I was a bit bothered by some. In retrospect I feel like we also somehow told Rori her thinking is flawed by inviting his input here. I also remember CCarter’s comments about men and contradiction and women and contradiction. We say we want a strong who takes charge but then when he takes charge we say he is controlling. We he shows strength we say he is overbearing. Until he shows up in a way that we believe he shows up I am wondering if I reject him or try to fix him?

    The first time I show EMK showing up here was to tell me to stop posting his writing here because of something with google. He spoke on behalf of other coaches and I wondered if he was telling the truth and if they asked him to speak on his behalf. SLV said something to clarify something else about him to me and he came back seemingly refuting what she said. I was a bit put off, didn’t say it at the time but internally resolved that I would not even read his enewsletters again or visit his blog. Now I am wondering if I should because of the overwhelming amount of what felt like, go away, to me.

    I felt sad about it. I also feel the response some how voted against Rori. I also have to wonder if it saying that we have decided that a man can only show up in certain package otherwise …………

    In reflecting I also remember a gf who says when she analyzes other people relationships her husband tells her to basically mind her own business because everyone’s relationship is different. That is what works for them and that is what works for them so she cannot advise them about “what should be” or even her girlfriend about how “she should be with her husband”.

    Sorry Sirens I feel sadness about the EMK’s experience here, how he left and can’t seem to shake it. Thanks to those who read this for allowing me to express my feelings.

  101.  #101Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    I really think there are huge subculture And personality differences involved in these issues. Which is why I prefer Rori’s more open-minded and flexible approach to a hard-line one-size-fits-all, which just doesn’t fit rhe complexity of the real world.

  102.  #102Queenbee on April 9, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    Lilybelle – Here’s sending some love and hugs! Thinking of you and KNOWING it’s going to get better best! ((((Lilybelle))))

  103.  #103Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    RE98 Lucy you might be right but what I have learnt from CCarter’s From Casual to Committed is that men take longer. Both women and men go from Conscious Uncertainty to unconscious certainty, I forget now how exactly he expresses it, but he says we go back and forth and most times women arrive there before men. I heard one of the ladies in SATC say something to that effect the other night. Hopefully Jilly who I believe have indicated that she has the program will confirm this. He says when the women gets to the place of asking where is this going, are you serious about us etc. is an indication that a woman has unconsciously arrived at the place where she wants a serious relationship and most times by then the guy has not even considered or decided what he wants. I don’t know for sure what happens but am committed to paying attention and observing.

  104.  #104Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    Lucy in my gut I have disliked the player label. The other one could be related to brain chemical imbalance. I don’t like labels because I don’t want anyone labelling me. I have had guys who tell me that all men are dogs and I will always disagree with them. Some are insecure and some feel like they are failures/losers. I am not committed to helping them get over that by being their therapist but I will not join them in beating up themselves. For me the key is in being intimate with myself and being aware enough to be able to select a great man who is already on his growth path that is looking for a woman who can inspire him. I believe some guys choose certain roles to play in life to protect themselves.

  105.  #105Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    FW 100. I feel a bit puzzled by your conclusions. To me, Evan was treated with the same respect everyone else is. We women on here often disagree, call each other out, help expand each others’ thinking, etc. – most of the time with love and respect. Rori did not expect us to agree w everything Evan said. She knows we can disagree, dialogue, and learn from each other (both ways!). Healthy men are willing and able to do this. Rori even ended her article with, “He will stick to his guns and I will stick

  106.  #106Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    stick to mine.” (paraphrase)

  107.  #107Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    Not suggesting that we should agree about everything. I did not see all of the comments to him as respectful. Some were, some were sarcastic and some were IMHO rude.

  108.  #108Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 1:14 pm


    That is a beautiful post with wonderful insights…

    “I am wondering if in our response we were telling him you have no right to be here? I feel some of the comments were caustic and have been a bit bothered by it. ”

    I often feel the same way…at times, I riff ab my own frustrations and unhealed part of me with men related…and then, I feel bad…:(

    It feels good to read your post as a reminder of believing goodness in men…is believing goodness in ourselves…something like what Daria is expressing daily 🙂

    Warm hugs,

  109.  #109Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    As far as following his lead – THAT is for the man we are in a couples relationship with. We certainly would be unwise to blindly follow every man who told us what to do (male pastors of some mega-churches come to mind). When we select a mate, we select one who we feel Good and Safe following – and I suspect his wife felt that way with him. She is a good match for him. Some of us are Not a good match for him and would not feel good and safe following his lead. We are all different – values, temperaments,

  110.  #110Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    lifestyles, etc.

  111.  #111Katarina Phang on April 9, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    TG, I’m not sure about cooking as a turn off for men though. I love cooking for my man and he loves my cooking. Always compliments me how great a cook I am (and everything else: a great f**k, friend, a wise woman, etc..).

    The key is if you do it because it makes you happy first and foremost, go for it. It’s your love language and it’s well received then everybody is happy.

  112.  #112Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    Lucy we all have preferences but as Carol Allen says CCarter’s way is “the will” hers is “the grace”. Also as another has said looking at relationships that don’t work helps us to clarify how they do work and what we do want. Comparing and contrasting is healthy and IMHO is a way to identify what works. Totally closing the door to one for me is choosing a one-size fit all model, which is the reason I read several others and follow Rori’s lead in investigating other coaches work when I receive their interviews that I get from her. For instance in the Interview I got of her I believe from CCarter I felt like she does not particularly like Lauren Frances’ style though she did not directly say so. Her comment was she felt “manhandling” is being disrespectful to men and I know Lauren Frances is the one who speaks about manhandling. I didn’t initially like LF style in the firstr interview I got to the point when I received the second one I almost didn’t listen to it. When I did I was glad because I received some value. All I am saying is that EMK’s perspective is different and in accepting people is again IMHO how we show respect, even though we might be coming from different places.

  113.  #113Queenbee on April 9, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    #79 – Yay! FW. So beautiful, gorgeous, amazing and yummy response. I love you on this blog and also get Camile’s point. I’ve been noticing you opening up like the way a flower opens up when in bloom. Good for you! So yummy!! 🙂

  114.  #114Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    If a man only feels welcome here when his every word is taken as gospel – well then, that would require us to walk on eggshells to avoid his drama. Yes, drama. I have walked on eggshells with men (and women) in “authority positions” before in order to head off drama. It is an unhealthy dynamic.

  115.  #115Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    Thanks DE. I feel understood and accepted.

  116.  #116Lily T. on April 9, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    I feel a sense of symetry with Lucy today. 🙂 Like she wrote in #98, my social circle has been comprised of people more inclined to pair-bond who didn’t need years to decide. And the men who wanted to marry me were more sure than I was. And I was wise to wait, to decline, as it turned out.

    I also agree with Lucy #101 – I find Rori’s softer lean back flexibility more enjoyable and “doable” than EMK’s ” This is what men want! Deal with it.” approach.

    When I’m happiest with myself is when I attract better men, and Rori’s tools seem more geared toward creating personal happiness opposed to attracting men in general. That was worded awkwardly, I hope other’s understand what I meant.

  117.  #117Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    And, overall, I STILL think Rori and Evan are basically saying the same thing with different words and different selections of scenarios to illustrate. 😉

  118.  #118Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    RE 114 Been there with a man in the church and am now speaking up using Rori’s way. My challenge is doing it with compassion and empathy. In trying it that way I am achieving more than I have had in the past and I get comments that it is noticed and appreciated both there and in the office.

    Having been hurt badly in my younger days by a bf who cheated and his other came forward just when we were supposed to get married I was jaded for years and my heart was hardened and shut down. I was a shell of myself and am now coming back to the loving place I prefer. So yes compassion and empathy towards others mean a lot to me. I understand there needs to be a balance so I try to be conscious of treating people the way I want to be treated. Though we are encouraged to honor our feelings and speak up I am not yet convinced that always speaking it out even when it hurts others is the way to go. I also ask myself do I really need to always speak out?

  119.  #119Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    Thanks Queenbee. It is hard looking at myself though.

  120.  #120Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    FW, I don’t like “labels” either. I only used those words as shorthand for the descriptions, not as judgments. For example, we label men as “men” instead of saying “a human with testes” every time. 😉

  121.  #121Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    RE 116 Lily T” Like she wrote in #98, my social circle has been comprised of people more inclined to pair-bond who didn’t need years to decide.” Might be speaking to your level of maturity so you attract more mature men. We are not all at the same level of maturity so maybe I am not there yet.

  122.  #122Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    RE 120 No suggestion of judgements. I was just expressing how I feel about the word player.

  123.  #123Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    Lucy I guess that is my “literal” side coming out again. Turquoise3 pointed that out to me. It is amazing who other people have pointed it out in my life but I have never really looked at it to address it. I am getting there though so I know it will eventually be healed. I am feeling so proud of myself right now.

  124.  #124Jacqueline on April 9, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    Lucy…haha….love you! and your doggedness or stick to itiveness or ummm, whatever word you’d choose as complimentary!! – it’s really cool.

    I agree – they both want women to WIN (almost hate to use that word due to it’s recent overuse…) Evan sounded honestly baffled on his Facebook page and said that he advocates for women and their happiness and he was concerned that it wouldn’t hurt him if no one listens…but it might hurt them.

    They have different energy – not because one is male and one is female, but because they are just different people.

    And I liked what FW said – and I say, we should NOT be insulting HIM, even if we wanna disagree with his opinions. They are not the same thing.

    Cheers for holding the space for both to be “right!!”


  125.  #125Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    FW 103. In my experience and that of my friends and relatives, it is rare for a woman to ask “where is this going?” She usually already knows where it’s going bc he is talking about marriage and they are deciding together. Maybe it is different in the big cities than here in small town usa. 😉

  126.  #126Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    RE 125 Maybe. Context really makes a difference.

  127.  #127Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    RE 124 I can understand why he must have been baffled. Though I didn’t like his tone in some places I am open to trying on his advice with some guys. I am accept that I can’t dictate what his tone should be so I can be comfortable with it so I am okay with him being himself or whatever works for him.

  128.  #128Queenbee on April 9, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    RE 66 – T-Girl, were you doing just the Siren Statement or were you doing the whole tool? See if you can go over the tool again and if you were not already, do the WHOLE tool not just the statement, then see 🙂 🙂

    Good for you on the progress you are making!


  129.  #129Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    68 and 72″

    Daria and Tinque~

  130.  #130Lily T. on April 9, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    :#125 Lucy

    That’s the point I was trying to make this morning on the previous thread: my experience has always been talking and deciding together, I don’t know anyone who waited patiently for years for their man to propose. What kind of intimacy, connection is in that?

    And FW, you wouldn’t feel so bad for EMK if you read his blog and saw how he has been known to “bitch slap” some of the women who have written him for advice, or posted in his comment section. He’s a big boy. And you might also want to re- read his negative comments on the way Rori worded declining a man who wanted exclusivity – rather a put down in my opinion.

  131.  #131Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    Hi Jacqueline. Lol. Yes, they absolutely have different energies unrelated to gender!!! Fully agree with you on that! (wow, we agree! love you too! lol.) His type of energy is extremely familiar to me – had a best friend (female) like him for years, as well as other ppl in my life, including my brotherinlaw. As far as insults – I agree, no one should be insulting anyone else – but as evidenced last night btwn you and me, there is often disagreement about what constitutes an “insult,” kwim? <3

  132.  #132Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    129~Might help if I actually type something in there.

    Daria and Tinque~

    YAY!! Then I will offer up a resounding HELL YES when the feeling so strikes me to do so.

    My feeling on this actually was there wouldn’t be any room for someone to question whether I was interested in them, as I am experiencing now.

    Thanks for the letting me see that it can be feminine/siren-y/goddess-y when it comes from the right place.


  133.  #133Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 1:57 pm

    RE 130 Lily T can’t argue with you on the big boy comment but no I generally don’t read his blog, not sure I want to either. I am just concerned about accepting people as in welcoming them when they come to your “home”. We might have to ask them to leave and until they start throwing furniture and utensils or something worse I believe they should be asked in a dignified manner.

  134.  #134Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 2:00 pm


    LD, I feel your heart, girl and this has me feeling even more connection to you. And I already know you are like me, you do not want to hold him back from being/doing/going where his heart is dragging him but oh, what to do with your heart.

    Please feel free to contact me off blog…blueyedgirl63@yahoo.com

    I would welcome the “friendship” with open arms.

    For now, I’m hugging you.


  135.  #135tinque on April 9, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    Lily T – “I don’t know anyone who waited patiently for years for their man to propose. What kind of intimacy, connection is in that?”

    It’s not necessarily this black and white. I patiently waited around for years because we had something really special, and it was clear sans discussion that we were committed to each other as life partners.

    Over time marriage didn’t really matter to me anymore because we are married in every way aside from the document.

    I have the man, and he has his woman. What else do I need? Aside from a gorgeous ring which I have too. lol

    Seriously though, I came to revelation within myself that a legal marriage wouldn’t make me feel more secure, more “with” my man, more anything. Aside from some legal maneuvering, it doesn’t being me anything more at all.

    We still celebrate the anniversary of our first date as “our anniversary”.

    I am not saying I’m against marriage. I would do it if he asked, and I think it’s beautiful for anyone who wants this. But I also want to offer a different perspective.

    Miss M doesn’t want it at all. I could go either way and still be perfectly content.


  136.  #136Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    Lily T. – Using my phone for this and haven’t read all comments yet but I see you are sharing experience and observations similar to mine. Feels good to not be alone. 🙂 I, too, perceive some of Evan’s remarks here as insulting and rude. (and No, it’s not bc I don’t like his point of view – as I have said repeatedly, he and Rori and I basically agree.)

  137.  #137Lily T. on April 9, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    Lol FW! I understand where you are coming from, but if someone comes to your ‘home’, obliquely puts down the hostess, argues with the other guests, belligerently sticking to their own (unasked for) opinion, how much courtesy do you owe them? EMK enjoys employing sarcasm in his writing…why shouldn’t he enjoy receiving it? Karma babe.

  138.  #138Jacqueline on April 9, 2011 at 2:09 pm

    Lucy – intention matter? wasn’t my intention….but I am speaking of far more agressive “insulting” – I think we’d disagree on what’s an insult too. funny tho that it was applicable….and yeah, EMK is soooooo inyerface. That’s why Jonathon totally doesn’t disrupt us, he’s waaaay more likable, or non controversial or some such. I like people with opinions, I like men, I’m happy and I believe in myself – so for me, it’s all good. We allowed Erika who’s so much MORE inyerface with no one questioning her “right” to post here – so this feels gender biased to me….

    And him posting here is no different that all the other coach’s eletters that are being posted….if it’s open to one, it’s open to all. For me, I can’t even read all the way through a CC newletter…it’s just so…circular. rofl!

    Point is – it’s RORI’s HOUSE, and I hate the way the blog is being co-opted as if it’s ummm…whoever’s decided to post today’s house?!

    Feeling message, that. Rare for me – but yeah I HATE it hate it….and it triggers huge judgement in me about insecure people without well thought out beliefs and boundaries being those that attack, use sarcasm as humor etc. etc.

    I don’t want to feel triggered. I shall ignore those posts…and go read a good book perhaps?

    See ya all later,

    G’day all….

  139.  #139Jacqueline on April 9, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    re: 137, please see 138; sounding awfully knee-jerk there, in my humble, respectful opinion. Grins, babe!

  140.  #140Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    81: Darling Ella

    OH DE!! This is exciting. I have thought about that too. I take it from your post that you are doing private lessons? I always thought I had to have a partner to take dance lessons which is why I haven’t looked into it more.

    Expensive? How often are your lessons?

    Please fill a girl in. I want to do this so much!


  141.  #141Lily T. on April 9, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    @Tinque #135

    I’m with you in the program of being able to be committed to someone without necessarily having a state registration. But some women want that, and for those who do, why is there such a disconnect on a timeline with their partners? As I wrote this morning on the previous thread, isn’t their any discussion about the reasons for and against getting married? How close can the two people be if there is NO discussion about it?

    What I got from EMK’s input is that it is a unilateral decision on the part of the male and the female should “be patient” until they’ve been together 3 years, and then if he doesn’t want to marry her she should bail. Fortunately I’ve never had to deal with this kind of attitude in my own relationships. Worked for EMK and wife, but I don’t see it as a “model” that needs to be emulated by others.

  142.  #142Queenbee on April 9, 2011 at 2:20 pm

    Tomorrow is my ‘out of town’ date with my HotAmazingSexy man 🙂 I can feel his excitement and I can’t wait too! 🙂

    It’s midnight and haven’t done anything yet. Still need to workout, beautify, go over some tools, pick an outfit and pack a bag for different scenarios.

    I suspect the date will be ‘nature-ish’ since we are going out of town. I’ll carry my flats.

    Oooh, I want to kiss a tree tomorrow 🙂

    I noticed that when I think of kissing a tree what comes to mind is ‘the bark is rough, and ants could get in my mouth’ – but tomorrow I’m sure the tree that wants a kiss from me will just appear. I’m going to give it a soft, sensual 5 second kiss 🙂 Yay!

    I’ll be leaning back. Despite all that’s gone on with us these past two weeks.

    I’ll let him bring stuff up and respond with warmth and openness.

    All I really want is just to be in his presence and feel AMAZING as I always do. Feel my amazing self melt and fall in love with myself more 🙂

    I’ll trust myself to communicate my boundaries with loving-ness, authenticity and clarity.

    It’s the clarity I struggle with –

    yeah, get married and have babies (2 is ideal). What more do I need to say.

    CDing – a mindset first. Then I don’t want to force myself to do anything I don’t want to do.

    I don’t want a man who’s involved in any way with another woman.

    Sex feels good to me when I feel emotionally and physically safe.

    Goodnight Sirens!


  143.  #143Katarina Phang on April 9, 2011 at 2:20 pm

    Everyone has a style, I agree with Jacq. As someone who has been judged for my style, I can attest that often it’s all about us, instead of about them.

    EMK’s style is indeed blunt, direct and very impersonal (it can be a turn off for most people, esp. women) but I can agree with most things he says even when we differ on CD.

  144.  #144Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    Jacqueline, that’s just the point – no one was asking Evan to leave! They Wanted him to stay and engage in dialogue! He didn’t want to though bc – as Lily said – he didn’t want to be treated the way he was treating others – with sarcasm and strong opinions. I too love men including those w strong opinions – and I wholeheartedly welcome dialogue w him and perceive the others here as feeling the same. Dialogue not monologue. We’re cooking good stuff here, and sometimes ppl can’t stand the heat and choose to l

  145.  #145tinque on April 9, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    Lily T – I hear you on the discussion if one or the other really wants this. I think it comes down to everyone is different. I don’t fault Evan’s wife for patiently waiting. Maybe she would have stayed with him regardless.

    It really comes down to, “is this person someone I want whether they want marriage or not?” And this goes for either one.

    Is it marriage that important? Or is not being married that important?


  146.  #146Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    leave the kitchen.

  147.  #147Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    85: Jilly

    Thank you so much. You know what? After reading what you said to me, I think you may have touched on something there.

    I am open, vulnerable and authentic in my being here and as I thought about it…in the world too. I just needed to remember that. Thank you for the oh so gentle reminder.

    I am on my way.

    And, I followed DE’s lead by scheduling an appointment for highlights next week. A real pick me up after the long, cold winter here. It’s going to cost me a fortune and I’ll likely have to eat popcorn for a couple of weeks but I can live with that. 😉

    Thank you, Jilly.

    Man, I heart you all


  148.  #148Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 2:30 pm

    As far as insults – yes, intention matters, and I don’t think anyone here (incl Evan) is insulting others (incl Evan) with malicious intent. Insults usually come from places in us that need healing. Sometimes we are aware that we are using insults, sometimes not. But it’s generally not malicious either way. I believe the saying, “Every act is either an act of love or a cry for love.” Now off to shower and shave (good day for that, right Daria?:)) <3

  149.  #149Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    94: LD

    HotArmyGuy feels good to me, I am feeling excited.

    And what really touched me here, because I am in the same boat as you with regards to our sons, is his immediate offer to drive you at the end of May.

    *swooning sigh*

    Can’t wait to hear how the evening goes.


  150.  #150Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    102: Queenbee

    Thank you so much! Trust me on this one..

    Everything really will be okay. Thank you for pointing that out to me. Sometimes, we just need gentle reminders.



  151.  #151Laughing Goddess on April 9, 2011 at 2:44 pm

    I’m borrowing Daria’s tool 🙂

    thank you LG for taking me on a bike ride
    thank you LG for feeding me a bowl of cereal after
    thank you LG for finding someone to babysit the pets while we are gone. I feel a huge weight off my shoulders.
    Thank you LG for deep conditioning my hair
    thank you LG for ordering that program I wanted
    thank you LG for thinking positive and uplifting thoughts about work
    thank you LG basking in the sun. That felt really good.
    Thank you LG for buying that shampoo that smells like flowers. I felt luxurious showering last night.
    Thank you LG for finding that henna. My hair is going to look so pretty with blond streaks.
    Thank you LG for being you. You make me happy.

  152.  #152Laughing Goddess on April 9, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    LG, here are some things I would like to do today.

    I want to play with my new mind movies program. Can we please go into town and download it?

    I also don’t want to worry about work or spend a long time doing it. Can we just get those things we have to do finished quickly so that I can play later?

    I want to keep my blood sugar stable and my energy up. Can we eat some nutritious food today?

    Mainly I feel stressed about work. Can you help me stop procrastinating?

    Thank you LG

  153.  #153Laughing Goddess on April 9, 2011 at 2:57 pm

    I also want to thank LI

    Thank you LI for making me that wonderful dinner last night. The scallops tasted sooooo good.

    Thank you LI for cleaning up the house before I brought my friend over. Thank you for knowing how much that means to me. I felt relaxed and cared for.

    Thank you for getting the bike fixed. It felt so good to ride today.

    Thank you for being positive and sweet. I feel really happy around you.

    Thank you for making me tea this morning and giving me sweet kisses before you left.

  154.  #154Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 3:04 pm


    Have a great day, Queenbee!


  155.  #155Senior Lady Vibe on April 9, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    @100: Femininewoman says:
    “…The first time I show EMK showing up here was to tell me to stop posting his writing here because of something with google. He spoke on behalf of other coaches and I wondered if he was telling the truth and if they asked him to speak on his behalf. SLV said something to clarify something else about him to me and he came back seemingly refuting what she said…”

    There are a few misunderstandings here. I feel bad reading this. This is the second time there has been a post alleging I have been either “corrected” or “refuted” although I appreciate in your case there was no snide addition. I have spent some time with
    “my best loving self” pondering these things but it just does not feel good reading those lines.

    My first thought is “how in the world can this be stated as a fact?” I feel crushed and dismayed.

    My trigger is a sense of not only be ignored and unappreciated but outright put down although I was not the one posting the wrong information. Gee, how unfair is that? Very, I say.

    The post directed to you was about your distribution (by posting) his and other articles without permission; I inferred he had never given you permission. I believe he asked you to stop doing it. I believe he was telling the truth about other coaches unless they have given you permission.

    He mentioned he only posted those articles in his newsletters and not also on his web site because of possible duplicate content penalty by Google. I can only infer he used this argument to illustrate damage cause by uncontrolled publication of articles.

    His reasoning was flawed due to a common misunderstanding what “duplicate content” means as far as search engine optimization is concerned. It’s hard to blame him, I didn’t, because it is a HUGE myth, like the one about “free” Internet articles.

    However, in your defense I posted and linked to a Google’s own video which explained the true “duplicate content” issue. It is not as he stated in the Rori post. If you looked at the video you know that. Maybe you didn’t watch the video; it was kind of boring even to me and I love that stuff. If there was any “refuting” going on it was mine of his assertion to you about Google.

    As far as I know he didn’t refute or even reply to what I posted which was the Google executives explanation in full living color in sound and video. Yet you now write that he did. And that I was “refuted.” I feel really, really bad reading that.

    That you and others believe it was even worse. I have pulled out of that and know it’s not your job to care about me or my feelings; however, I will defend what I write, my work. I will continue working on shutting down my feelings as I haven’t been totally successful with that yet.

    I saw no such post and don’t believe there was one. Well, how could he? What could he say? He knows more about Google than the Google executives do??? I guess it could happen… I don’t think it did.

    Further, I posted a link to an explanation of allowed usage of copyrighted materials under “fair use doctrine.” Again, these were not my ideas, thoughts, or opinions, they were from the source, in the second case the defined limitations found in sections 107 through 118 of the copyright law (title 17, U. S. Code). You mentioned you have an MBA so I am thinking you might have encountered this before or had a general understanding. I also don’t remember these things so I look them up.

    I am chalking these things up to human nature and women believing a man over a woman not matter what. But, boy, it sure feels bad.

    The one good thing is I enjoyed reading your “thanks” to him… 😀 and then you continued to post more and more articles! That was super bold. I will describe it as: “thanks, Mister man, I’ll do it anyway, sue me!” It’s a trigger but I kind of laugh sometimes too… nervously. I admit, I’m a little naughty sometimes too.

    That aside, I was very disappointed in a post he made to me about first dates. I considered his comments to me cocky and sarcastic. In that one I was accused of — oh, this sounds so silly — wrongly citing his dating philosophies, then he turned around and stated what they were…. not different that what I said. However, he went on to imply and argue against me citing “blind coffee dates” which I NEVER SAID!! DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT THOSE ARE!!

    I suppose it didn’t matter, the mere fact he posted I said them or implied somehow took hold. I posted a reply defending what I wrote. No reply from him.

    I work toward learning lessons from all no matter how my feelings are hurt. Now I mostly state my own knowledge, experience, beliefs and opinions regardless of how they are formed.

    I also admire clever business practices and I appreciate his work, a lot. I’m aware he is not perfect as none of us are. I just don’t like my feelings being hurt and being unfairly cast in the wrong. Perhaps the trigger fosters growth toward closing my heart. I’m attempting to close my heart for a while.

    Also I have a personal challenge to make a project around this issue. I like to, try anyway, create something good out of bad. I haven’t given this project a name yet…tbd.. maybe OPERATION MDC. I like to have fun even if I cry at the start.


  156.  #156Lily T. on April 9, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    Well all EMK’s strong opinions on this blog weren’t enough apparently. He wrote on his Facebook page: ” I’m still going to write a blog post that obliterates the logic behind Circular Dating. ”

    This is a guy who truly hates it when people don’t agree with him. Almost amusing.

  157.  #157Senior Lady Vibe on April 9, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    @114: Lucy says:
    “… I have walked on eggshells with men (and women) in “authority positions” before in order to head off drama. It is an unhealthy dynamic….”

    I’ve never given bonus points to anyone in perceived “authority” or “celebrity” or even “extra big bucks” as far as that is concerned but many people do. It’s sometimes shocking to me the extent. I don’t plan to change in that regard.


  158.  #158Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    Lily 156. I feel really sad to hear that from Evan. 🙁 I wish he could see the unity that I see regarding him and Rori. Very very sad. 🙁

  159.  #159Senior Lady Vibe on April 9, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    @130: Lily T. says:
    “..And FW, you wouldn’t feel so bad for EMK if you read his .blog and saw how he has been known to “bitch slap” some of the women who have written him for advice, or posted in his comment section. He’s a big boy…”

    I’m familiar with him and we exchanged posts the first time around with this same topic, much milder this time around. Does anybody remember that first newsletter about the three date exclusivity? When the male dating coach had his coachee dump the guy when she refused to go exclusive after three dates???

    Oh, well. I’ve got my “sweetie” and he is so calm. It’s like I’m talking to the other side of my brain. I believe I am. I’m learning to “dump it” and don’t let it get me down. I know what I’m going to do and that’s enough. I’m no fool.


  160.  #160Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    EMK is entitled to his own opinions, on his FB page, on his blog and here, when he is working in partnership with Rori. We can either chose to agree or disagree. However, I do feel that some of the comments from here could have been handled in a more respectful manner. I also feel like Evan didn’t have a choice in his responses, and while I can’t speak for him, I would have felt attacked, at best.

    He had to resort to defending his marriage for Pete’s Sake. All because of an article on CDing.

    I respect him for his work and I feel disheartened to continue to read, EMK bashing here.

  161.  #161Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    SLV, yes, many people do. I did at one time – in a church situation – it’s generally bc with “charismatic” types we co-create an illusion that they are filling a hole inside us.

  162.  #162Senior Lady Vibe on April 9, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    @138: Jacqueline says:
    “…Point is – it’s RORI’s HOUSE, and I hate the way the blog is being co-opted as if it’s ummm…whoever’s decided to post today’s house?!…”

    I admit I get a little perverted tingle when I come here and see some of the stuff that goes down. I probably contribute… 😛 but in a thoughtful way… LOL 😆


  163.  #163Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    I don’t see any EMK bashing.

  164.  #164Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    We are all entitled to our own opinions and perceptions.

  165.  #165Senior Lady Vibe on April 9, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    @156: Lily T. says:
    “…This is a guy who truly hates it when people don’t agree with him. Almost amusing. Almost…”

    Things can get rough. I enjoy a good exchange of ideas.

    And I don’t have anyone kneeling at my feet…so I just stick to the facts ma’am…

    But I suspect there are women just dying to “obliterated” by a man. I know it actually…


  166.  #166Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    SLV, I just read your long post above. I feel empathy with you. I feel Hugely triggered when ppl say I said things I didn’t say – or say untrue things about me – and especially when they Persist in doing so. That was my recent issue w Jacqueline (don’t worry, Jacqueline, I’m over it). I notice that I am triggered even when ppl say Positive untrue things about me (my dad and a bf have done this)! I am working on healing this trigger (and am grateful that Jacq revealed it for me) and I know that once I heal i

  167.  #167Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    once I heal it, ppl will stop doing it to me! Yay!!! 🙂

  168.  #168Senior Lady Vibe on April 9, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    @161: Lucy

    I would not have thought you be a person “to be in awe of” someone. You know of the jaw-dropping, they can do no wrong, “hey, look everybody it’s…” like that… Or, “he’s rich! what will I do?” quake, quake 😛

    I think you are the opposite of that…???


  169.  #169Senior Lady Vibe on April 9, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    @166: Lucy says:
    “… I feel Hugely triggered when ppl say I said things I didn’t say – or say untrue things about me –…”

    Yeah, I might just lose it, especially when it’s nasty. Somebody makes up something about you and then castigates you for it or teases … huh? If it’s something you did or said you can talk about it, change, apologize, defend it or whatever. But if you didn’t,,, well… what do you do? Can’t even join in the discussion…

    I am taking some points from “my sweetie” really… we had a “discussion” about it this morning, a long one. I know I am accessing both sides of my brain. He is very calm and figuring things, very calmly… it reminds me of myself when I was in school… university…

    I’m learning something… I just have to figure out what it is… LOL


  170.  #170Senior Lady Vibe on April 9, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    @167: Lucy says:
    “…once I heal it, ppl will stop doing it to me! Yay!!! …”

    I’ll shut down my heart for the rest of the year and i won’t care…


  171.  #171luzydel on April 9, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    I just came back from going out with Me, Myself and I 🙂 why does this feel better tha going on a blind date?

  172.  #172Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    168. Lol SLV – yes, I learned my lesson! I was never that way as a matter of course, but it can be a very insidious process arising within a perfect storm. I became the prized and cherished pupil of such a leader, eventually her “bff,” and it filled a need in me for approval, recognition of my superior intellect and spiritual discernment (lol! – her words), attention, popularity, etc. When she gained more authority at one point, she even puffed me up by saying, “Now that I have more authority, you do too by

  173.  #173Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    by virtue of our relationship.” I fell for it of course, young and foolish and wounded as I was.

  174.  #174Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 4:34 pm


    I found, buried in my jewelery box, a beautiful ring I had purchased years ago. I have deemed this to be my ring and am wearing it now, to remind me of my journey to finding my “sweetie” in the flesh.

    Feels kinda good to have a reminder on my finger.

    I just wanted to share that with you…



  175.  #175Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    My sister married such a man, and though he cheats on her at times, he provides her with high status, wealth, and popularity, and that (for her) balances it out. Not me.

  176.  #176Ella on April 9, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    I was talking about this topic with Sirens on another thread… and I am feeling more in a good vibe right now… it is about me, nothing else matters.

    Although I have to say I am looking forward to practicing some suggestions the Sirens gave me re how to deal with a group of men… eye contact, and stepping back… etc

    And also just leaning back and feeling really good.

    Like an overflowing fountain of sparkly love!


    Just got back from my Zumba Instructor training course.

    Feel dog tired but very happy!

    Haven’t read comments on thread yet. Will prob catch up tomorrow.

    Hope everyone is good!


  177.  #177Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    Luzydel, I too often prefer my own company. 😉

  178.  #178Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    SLV, please don’t shut down your heart. *tone of great love and compassion* <3

  179.  #179Senior Lady Vibe on April 9, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    @171: luzydel says:
    “…I just came back from going out with Me, Myself and I why does this feel better tha going on a blind date?…”

    Because you love you and “You Will Still Love You Tomorrow?”


  180.  #180Lily T. on April 9, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    I’ve read many good and useful things on EMK’s blog. But if anyone thinks he’s being bashed here? This is what he wrote on FB about your “home” here on Rori’s blog:

    “Oh, and thank you, Jacqueline. There are many psychological principles that describe what occurs on Rori’s blog: the confirmation bias, the overconfidence bias, the normalization of deviance… pretty much codified groupthink that is so con…vinced that it’s right that any dissenter will be shouted down. It’s like Michael Moore going on Fox News, you know? 🙂 So I don’t take it personally; I just hope that women realize that I understand men and advocate for women – and that they ignore my entreaties at their own peril. My life doesn’t change if they don’t follow my warnings; theirs certainly will.”

    Does anyone consider this bashing RR readers?

  181.  #181Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    RE 155 SLV my understanding might be wrong but the discussion I referred to above is on the link below. Please read 657, 952 and 956. For ease of reference I have posted 657 and 952 below. I might have misunderstood something or you might have missed it. Please let me know if I am missing something.

    1. 657: Senior Lady Vibe says:
    @642: LD says:
    “…So if the chemistry is there, I find that it’s hard for men to remember that it’s just a second or third date. I’m not sure how to reconcile this with my own boundaries, because it feels more intimate more quickly for me as well…”
    Both Rori and EMK encourage early face-to-face dates rather than spending a lot of time with messaging and telephone calls. Thanks for sharing your CD experiences which illustrate how that works.

    1. 952: Evan Marc Katz says:
    @SLV 657: “Both Rori and EMK encourage early face-to-face dates rather than spending a lot of time with messaging and telephone calls”
    Nope. You got the wrong dating coach.
    I’d rather you go on one good pre-screened comfortable Friday night date with a man you’ve been emailing/talking to for a week than to go on three blind coffee dates.
    Nothing sucks the life out of dating more than rushing into meaningless meetings with total strangers. Make him invest in you BEFORE you meet and your first date will feel like a second date.

  182.  #182Senior Lady Vibe on April 9, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    @174: Lilybelle says:
    “…I found, buried in my jewelery box, a beautiful ring I had purchased years ago….”

    That’s exciting and special! A good reminder that you are on your journey. I got rings today, TWO! Same gumball machine… hahah 😆 I plan to get one each weekend. First quarters, ring got stuck, so had to try again, got two! Now I have five little rings.

    Is that a good sign, two rings at once? Or is it a sign “sweetie” is “stuck” somewhere…?

    Did you take the apartment? I forget…you said bedroom was small…


  183.  #183Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    Lilybelle #140:

    Gosh, I feel weird sharing the package cost…I don’t want to feel judged 🙁

    When I made my decision, I asked myself…would I rather pay for more therapy or dancing??? I chose dancing for a change 😉 Hope this answers for you 🙂

    Yet, I feel glad you were inspired by my choice 🙂

    Warm hugs,

  184.  #184Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 5:15 pm


    Hee Hee, I love the little rings you purchase. In fact, I looked long and hard at the ring machine the other day with you in mind and smiled BIG time. Two rings feels good to me, not stuck.

    RE: the apartment
    I followed your advice about how it “felt” when I was in it and it “felt” too small overall. It probably would have been okay if there were a storage locker available on site, but there is a waiting list for one. I don’t want my home to look like a storage unit, with tubs stacked in the corner of my bedroom so I am going to wait until a larger one bedroom opens for me.

    The good news is that I don’t have a time limit here and in the meantime, I can start/continue to go through things and make donations of clothing etc to reduce the overall “stuff” that no longer serves a purpose for me. Other people can use it and will appreciate it and that feels great!

  185.  #185Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    Lily T # 180:

    Ouch…I feel glad and thankful English is not my 2nd language…I sure hope I “misunderstand” his intention(s) again because of it 😉

    Good catch 😉

    Warm hugs,

  186.  #186Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    RE 137 Lily T I understand but I also remember CCarter talking about maturity and how two wrongs don’t make a right. See my thinking is I can rise above and I will not allow anyone to take me where I don’t want to go in a disagreement. It is about the way we fight. I have learnt that emotions are contagious so people will reflect back to us the emotion we bring to interactions. Just because I am with a screecher doesn’t mean that I should take on screeching if it was never in my nature. I can walk away from it. I have kids and I guess it is one of the life lessons I teach them. I have refused to engage people in arguments where when I was younger I used. I learnt from a very Burmese boss some years ago how to make a dignified exit regardless of what is being thrown at me. I liked her style back then and I still like it now.

  187.  #187Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    On a second thought…I say lets get him…lol

  188.  #188Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 5:19 pm


    I completely respect your decision not to share. And thank you for the comparisson. Kinda like my hair appointment. 😉

    I think dancing IS therapy and much more fun. I hope you will share your experience with the lessons.


  189.  #189Lily T. on April 9, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    Gotcha FW. Then with that philosophy in mind it would be best to just not mention EMK anymore on this thread you think?

  190.  #190Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    Lily T # 180:

    Correction: “Ouch…I feel glad and thankful English IS my 2nd language…I sure hope I “misunderstand” his intention(s) again because of it ;)” You see what I mean?!! lol

    Warm hugs,

  191.  #191luzydel on April 9, 2011 at 5:23 pm


    Fom now on I am dating myself!!! 🙂 LOL

  192.  #192Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 5:25 pm


    From an outsider looking in, I would imagine it does look that way. It can get quite tense and uncomfortable at “home” at times. We all know what is happening but someone new may think at times, this is a place filled with hatred and no regard for others opinions.

    When in fact, it isn’t that way at all. There is much love, acceptance and healing that occurs here, not to mention cheering and encouragement. For someone who does not attend often, I honestly feel it could look exactly as Evan describes.

    Someone said earlier and I forget who so I am paraphrasing, that for new people, who are looking for help, it could be quite intimidating to someone who does not understand the processing that occurs here.

    And the healing.

  193.  #193Senior Lady Vibe on April 9, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    @181: Femininewoman says:
    “….RE 155 SLV my understanding might be wrong but . I might have misunderstood something or you might have missed it. Please let me know if I am missing something….”

    Missed what?… Those are my posts. I don’t see any “google refuting” do you? Yes, guess you are missing something. Is this a joke?


  194.  #194Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    RE 180 Though he has to qualify his sources he does say “There are many psychological principles” that suggest such things. Yes I do agree that it could be read as bashing RR readers but my personality would be to look for the value by investigating the psychological principles he refers to. You see I have again accepted where CCarter says the way you are in any relationship is the way you are in “the” relationship so I would hate to find out that after all this work here I would shout down a partner if he is a dissenter to my opinions. Please don’t get me wrong I am defending him. What I am concerned about is whether the work we do here empowers us to be tolerant of others in our relationships. Are we really practicing what Rori teaches in creating a safe place for the people we interact with? Because if we don’t I feel we are missing something. I understand we should focus on our own feelings and put ourselves first but in my opinion it is the feedback we get from others that confirm we are really practicing and succeeding at what we are learning. He might disagree yes but my sense is that if our disagreement was expressed in gentle, soft ways that I understand is the feminine way he might have stayed and expressed more of his thinking and the reasons why he disagrees.

  195.  #195Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    RE 193 NO SLV it is not a joke, I said nothing about google refuting.

  196.  #196Senior Lady Vibe on April 9, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    @183: Darling Ella says:
    “…would I rather pay for more therapy or dancing??? I chose dancing for a change…”

    DE, dancing *is* therapy… 😀


  197.  #197Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    1. 952: Evan Marc Katz says:
    @SLV 657: “Both Rori and EMK encourage early face-to-face dates rather than spending a lot of time with messaging and telephone calls”
    Nope. You got the wrong dating coach.

    It seems to me here that he is refuting your claim that he encourages early face to face meetings. In saying “Nope. You got the wrong dating coach.”

  198.  #198Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    I predict that Evan’s “obliteration of the logic behind circular dating” will utilize a very attractive straw man argument. He is sharp enough to excel at sophistry. Ultimately, he is only doing battle against himself – I just hope that the collateral damage is minimal – and that is my primary concern and motivation for speaking out about this.

  199.  #199Lily T. on April 9, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    Though I’ve seldom commented, I’ve been reading this blog off and on for over a year. To me, it seemed a nuturing kind of place, very much like a support group, but then I usually did not read all 500+ posts on each thread.

    And I’ve been reading EMK’s blog for a few years – I’m somewhat accustomed to his snarkiness over there even if I don’t care for it, it’s HIS blog after all. So I was happy to see some of the ladies here stand up to him on the circular dating threads. He made some good points and so did they. If he felt he was being *savaged* here (c’mon really?) it was only because he was getting back some of what he is so used to dishing out.

    Anyway, now we know what he really thinks of this blog and the women here. I don’t much care if he feels welcome here, or bashed. Pfffftttt.

  200.  #200Senior Lady Vibe on April 9, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    @184: Lilybelle
    “…If it feels good, right choice. Let’s bet that by the time you get all your things sorted, the right size apartment will be available…”


  201.  #201Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 5:36 pm


    Gosh, that’s just awesome…I steal it from u…It made my day for real 🙂 Thank you

    Warm hugs,

  202.  #202Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    RE 192 lilybelle that was how I felt when I was new here. I believe it was Erika Awakening and someone else back then.

  203.  #203Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    SLV #196:

    Yes, indeed it is…:) It took my a while to figure it out …lol

    Warm hugs,

  204.  #204Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    Yes, let’s bet. I’ll bet you four machine rings that you are right.


    I’m on a journey. Hee Hee

    Thanks for going with me, SLV.


  205.  #205Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    RE 189 You know Lily T I believe I visited EMK’s blog once when I signed up for his free newsletters. I was a bit put off by the rules he put up about what should take place there. I remember not liking the tone. However, I find it a bit amusing that on this blog there is no rules, at least I have not seen them, to control how or what is shared here. I did look for some but didn’t find any. However, during my time here aside from a comment about religion I have never seen Rori interject about not putting stuff. I have also got a sense that certain language might put posts into moderation. I can’t remember seeing anything else controling the traffic here. However, since I have been here different posters like myself have tried to control what I write by their suggestions. At one point I felt I should leave because I was not welcome. I felt it was feeding into my insecurities so I withdrew and but then I came back. It is amazing to me how people try to control things here.

  206.  #206Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    180. The psychological principles Evan speaks of are the very ones he is utilizing (among others) – I feel intrigued that he is seeing them mirrored. I feel concerned and sad that he is using those words to dismiss so many women. What is quoted there seems incredibly toxic to me. I feel concerned for women who are enmeshed with him. I know I may receive some flack for this – even outrage – but I am genuinely concerned.

  207.  #207Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    OMG ….

    Watch this…about Side Effects….


  208.  #208Senior Lady Vibe on April 9, 2011 at 5:52 pm

    @197: Femininewoman says:
    “…It seems to me here that he is refuting your claim that he encourages early face to face meetings. In saying “Nope. You got the wrong dating coach….”

    Yes, he’s wrong and snarky. That’s the part you missed. I endorse what he does first meeting after only a couple of e-mails and phone calls, a week or so, early, as opposed to the three months of e-mail messages discussed, which I’ll call “later.” I said nothing whatsoever about “blind coffee dates” or any instant meetings.

    I “had” the right dating coach. I suspect that doesn’t matter to you. I’m OK with that.

    He got some attention. Cool. I know what I’ll do, that’s what matters.


  209.  #209Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    RE 142 Queenbee I am so happy reading that. I wish you have a happy day and go ahead and kiss the tree if that makes you feel good. Hope this is up up and away to happily ever after.

  210.  #210SirenJen on April 9, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    Hey Ladies…I’m back. Rori kindly changed my screenname as asked (this is only my 3rd post). Anyways, my date is tomorrow with ChoirDirectorMan!!!! He’s been on vacation with his friends in Vegas all week and I’m feel so proud of myself for not leaning forward and messaging him or anything…..in fact, HE sent ME a text the other day asking me how my week was going and making sure that we were still on for our date 🙂 I’m so excited and nervous for tomorrow!! I re-watched the Modern Siren dvds this week and have been in SUCH a siren mood today too….!!!!

    HOWEVER….I have one thing that I need your help with….I’m a single mom of 2 little boys — I’m HOPING that he clicked through all of my facebook pics (to get my full story on how I got in touch with ChoirDirectorMan, you’ll have to go back a few threads and search SirenJen)….so…should I bring it up tomorrow night?? I haven’t dated anyone in 2 1/2 years since I broke up with my ex…so dating as a single mom is brand new for me. He is picking me up at my house tomorrow night…and it will be obvious that I have little ones because of a cute wooden lego table I have in my living room. I don’t want to assume that he knows or will figure it out on his own….lol. Help!! 🙂

    You ladies are awesome

  211.  #211Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    RE 206 Lucy I don’t know about them. As I said I have to do some research there, both about those triggers he mentions and maybe his blog or how it mirrors hi.

  212.  #212Senior Lady Vibe on April 9, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    @204: Lilybelle says:
    “…Yes, let’s bet. I’ll bet you four machine rings that you are right…”

    Girl… I can’t bet “my rings.” But I got a feeling your apartment will come right on time. 😀

    “I Got A Feeling” – Black Eyed Peas – Oprah Chicago Flashmob 24th season Oprah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwRo0iCvoYE


  213.  #213Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    RE 210 Is this your first date? That was not clear.

  214.  #214Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    194. FW. When women have strong boundaries and do not tolerate mistreatment, toxic men leave. Healthy women do not want to “get a man to stay at all costs.” Rori says (and it is a psychologically sound principle) that saying No to what we Don’t Want makes room for what we Do Want.

  215.  #215Lilybelle on April 9, 2011 at 6:05 pm


    Are you kidding, I KNOW what those rings signify, I would NEVER bet the rings themselves, only the getting of NEW rings. 🙂

    Hee Hee.

    And I LOVED that video, I have it saved to my favorites.

  216.  #216Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    RE 135 tinque I don’t remember if Virginia Feingold Clarke mentioned how long she waited but I do remember her suggesting in the Interview that when she brought it up hers suggested that he was somewhat not open to it because he did not believe he needed to do that to prove to her that he loves her. She said it was important to her and told him he something to the effect that he was entitled to think the way he wants but that she would be willing to leave to fulfil her heart’s desire. I have to review the Interview but somehow I feel it took them more than the 3 years to get there. I felt in the interview that she too is happy with her situation.

  217.  #217Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    RE 214 Thanks Lucy.

  218.  #218Tmizz on April 9, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    FW #3 – I am with you.

    “And the only answer is: You don’t believe, deep down that what you want will show up for you.”

    That is a phrase that really resonates with me as well. And I’m really trying to work on that, and also trying to work on accepting myself as “sexy” and “attractive.” Tons of people – basically everyone in my life – tells me that I am beautiful, sexy and attractive. But I don’t know why it somehow doesn’t sink in that it’s actually true. It’s like I pegged myself long ago as an “ugly duckling” and everyone else is telling me I’m a swan, only I can’t see it.


    About this “chasing” business. I realize that I am the absolute WORST at chasing. No, that’s not true. I am perfectly fine and quite comfortable letting men come to me. It’s AFTER they come to me that I start chasing.

    However. I heard an interesting story recently. I was talking to a friend of mine who recently got engaged. The whole thing developed pretty quickly, so I asked her how it happened. Basically, she and her housemates had a party (I was there), and during that party, she took this one guy aside and told him that she had a “huge crush” on him, and then “grabbed him and started kissing him.” The next thing I knew, they were “in a relationship” on Facebook. And a few months later, they were engaged. They are getting married in the summer. So…is that “chasing”? That’s pretty forward. Does that mean the guy has a lot of “feminine” energy? I don’t know. I can’t say, because I’ve only met him once. Maybe. But I think it might have to do with something else. Like Rori said, it all has to do with where it’s coming from.

    She’s a very feminine, very sexy woman. She is accomplished and secure in her life, but still young, and likes to have fun. She felt free and self-confident enough to just state clearly what she wanted. And I think that’s probably what appealed to him the most.

    I would also venture to say that there is a difference between “chasing” and “approaching.” “Chasing” is what you do when you are needy and you don’t have a lot of self esteem. So you “need” the guy to respond, to make you feel better, to make you feel sexy. “Approaching,” however, would be all about confidence. You know your sexiness and your desirability are in tact, no matter what he does, so you can approach with confidence, and not fear his response, or lack thereof. You are simply taking care of yourself and your needs, which is different from being “needy.”

    On the whole, I agree that it is MUCH better to lean back and give the guy space to come toward you. You want him to have that feeling of confidence and control, because that will make him feel just so excited to be with you, as opposed to feeling like a puppet who is just responding to you pulling his strings. No guy wants to feel that way.

    Right now, I am practicing “approaching” – while also knowing that it may not be a good idea in the long run. But I also don’t have any great expectations for the relationship. He’s just an attractive guy, and I feel confident about my feelings and where they’re coming from. I think the key is, the same as with any of this, not having any “expectation” as to the outcome. If I say, “I want you” or “I want to see you” that doesn’t mean that he’s going to be there or that anything is going to happen. But I am still being honest and expressing my desires. I can still take care of myself and I don’t “need” him there to do it.

    Meanwhile, if you have any doubts about my friend and her fiancé, I think their relationship is going to be just fine. They are like two little lovebirds, and it is obvious from their pictures and what everyone says, including them, that they are truly in love. So I feel like, ‘good for her.’ She knew what she wanted and she went for it. And he responded. I think she’s one of the lucky ones.

    The rest of us still have to play by “the rules.” But even then, I think there is still space to “break the rules” – on occasion. You are a passionate person. You DO have desires sometimes, but you can still have them in a feminine way. If you feel really connected to the moment, and you do or say something that is in your heart, I don’t think we need to be held back by “fear” about what a guy is going to do or not do, or how he is going to react. I think the goal is to act from our best, most truest selves, and that’s what Rori’s message is overall, as well as a lot of other teachers out there.

    This is a great article, and a great post. I really needed it in this moment. Thanks again, Rori!

  219.  #219Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    It’s kind of laughable that he accused this blog of confirmation bias, since confirmation bias is what he bases his own conclusions on. *shakes head at the irony*

  220.  #220Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    RE 218 Tmizz interesting perspective but I don’t feel I could pull that off without the expectations and the investment in the outcome. I feel happy for your friend and hope that the relationship withstands the test of time. Her vibe must have been in the right place for her to manifest that.

  221.  #221Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 6:18 pm

    RE 219 Lucy what does that mean? Confirmation bias?

  222.  #222Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 6:19 pm

    Just started my research:-
    Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency for people to favor information that confirms their preconceptions or hypotheses regardless of whether the information is true.[Note 1][1] As a result, people gather evidence and recall information from memory selectively, and interpret it in a biased way. The biases appear in particular for emotionally significant issues and for established beliefs. For example, in reading about gun control, people usually prefer sources that affirm their existing attitudes. They also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and/or recall have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a stronger weighting for data encountered early in an arbitrary series) and illusory correlation (in which people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).

  223.  #223Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    A series of experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased towards confirming their existing beliefs. Later work explained these results in terms of a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In combination with other effects, this strategy can bias the conclusions that are reached. Explanations for the observed biases include wishful thinking and the limited human capacity to process information. Another proposal is that people show confirmation bias because they are pragmatically assessing the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way.

    Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence. Hence they can lead to disastrous decisions, especially in organizational, military, political and social contexts.

  224.  #224Lily T. on April 9, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    Lucy #219:

    I’m shaking my head right along with you. 😉

  225.  #225Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    Now I really miss Pamelala. I would love to hear her take on this.

  226.  #226Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    Tmizz, I had a couple great relationships that started the way you described with that couple. I saw a guy I wanted, and went for it from a place of confidence and playfulness. In each case, I eventually ended it – although one of them I later wished I hadn’t. So yes, it does work that way sometimes. My younger sister’s marriage started similarly and they have been happily married over 20 years with 4 great kids.

  227.  #227SirenJen on April 9, 2011 at 6:27 pm

    This is our first date…..we’ve never met. Our old HS choir teacher put in a good word for me when she saw him a week and a half ago…and he sent me a message on Facebook. Since then, we’ve been talking…I’ve been using feeling messages 🙂 And he asked me out. So tomorrow is the day!!!

    I’m still feeling unsure about the single mom thing and how to approach that with him…

  228.  #228luzydel on April 9, 2011 at 6:27 pm

    Ok since we all talk about how things went after a date; I will talk about my dates with me…

    Today Me and Myself hanged out at the mall, It was a nice weather but still a bit chilli to be out. We had a capuccino and sat on the seats in front of Nordstrom, We looked at people pass by. Myself asked me what do you want? What makes you happy?
    Me answered… I want simplicity, Art, poetry, I want my life to be full of smiles. Them Me ask Myself what is your type of man? Myself stayed quite and started to look at each man that passed by…
    She looked at them in their eyes, some never noticed her, others avoided her and a few looked back and said hi, Myself smiled back and responded with another hello. Then myself responded to me
    I want a man that can smile, a man that notices me, a man who can look at my eyes.

    Then me and Myself finished the capuccino and decided to stroll around the mall, Me realised that Myself loves crystals and Auntie Anns pretzels 🙂
    That myself is a smile magnet and people are drawn to myself when myself smiles. Me loves puppies, so Myself wanted to make me happy and went to see some puppies, there was a cute guy checking Me and Myself out and we both decided that he was into both. So we both flirted with him.
    After a nice time Myself and Me called it a day, Myself invited Me to go Ball Room dancing tomorrow and Me said yes.

    So what do you think sirens? Should Me lean Back? or is Myself too insecure? Me don’t want to seem too needy or desperate, but Myself is so irresistible…:)

  229.  #229Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 6:29 pm

    Normalization of Deviance

    System flaws set up good people to fail. 80% of errors are system induced. People often find ways of getting around processes which seem to be unnecessary or which impede the workflow. “Normalization of deviance” describes a gradual shift in thought in which nonstandard or unacceptable behavior and standards become acceptable. People and organizations generally do not tolerate immediate, large shifts in behaviors – it would be obvious and seem ridiculous. However, we accept and barely notice incremental changes over long periods of time.

    We mainly become aware of the normalization of deviance when we reach a breaking point. One graphic example of this concept was the space shuttle Challenger disaster. Accident investigators identified that the temperature on the morning of the launch was far below the known safe limit. The O-rings that failed and caused the explosion were designed to function at a temperature no lower than 59 degrees. However, over time, NASA had launched the shuttle successfully at progressively lower temperatures until eventually on the morning of the Challenger launch, the temperature on the launch pad was 29 degrees.

  230.  #230Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    FW – those are very good explanations of the principles. Thank you for locating them.

  231.  #231Lily T. on April 9, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    I really enjoyed #228 Luzydel! I think your Me & Myself are doing just fine :).

  232.  #232Winnie on April 9, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    Wow! I haven’t logged on for a few days and it seems like I have missed all the action!

    I think that EMK may have forgotten for a moment that he was dealing with WOMEN…he sure got reminded!! He said that he understands men but I think women may still be a bit of a mystery to him. ; )

    I have read a bit of EMK’s dating/relationship advice, and while I agree with some of what he has to say, for me personally, he doesn’t say much that’s new.

    I have just been skimming through the posts and have been triggered by some comments and then further down the thread been so encouraged by the responses (on both sides of the discussion).

    I think the best thing about his comments here, is that it has so many of us thinking about the whole concept of circular dating and what it means to each of us. The process of having to explain or teach an idea really does help us to clarify our own minds. So thank you Evan.

  233.  #233Senior Lady Vibe on April 9, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    @207: Darling Ella
    tee hee 😛 (psst, don’t tell anyone I’m laughing… 😆 )


  234.  #234Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    RE 227 Okay so now I am wondering why you are concerned about “approaching” him with the single mom thing? Are you already assuming that the first date is going to lead to a long term relationship? Are you concerned that he might not be ready to be a daddy to your kids? These might all be unconscious concerns.

    My understanding is that first dates are for having fun. I would not bring up anything about the kids or my life unless he asks. Then I would tell him how I feel blessed to have two wonderful children who lights up my life with joy and adventure.

  235.  #235Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    RE 232 Winnie thank you for that positive outlook. Curiosity about ourselves and our own processes could lead us to operate from our zone of genius. Love that.

  236.  #236Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    Welcome Lucy. Have had you prior knowledge of them?

  237.  #237Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    RE 228 Luzydel Me should lean waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy forward to make Myself happy. Love it.

  238.  #238Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    Many of us here are social scientists and are cognizant of these principles. My perception of the blog is that there is surprisingly very little of those problems going on here – most likely bc we keep each other on our toes, continually challenging each other’s application and understanding of Rori’s teachings, effectively avoiding “group think.” It’s quite unusual, actually, what we are accomplishing here. Rori seems like a very healthy person, and thus a healthy leader inspiring healthy and independent t

  239.  #239Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    thought within and among her students/readers.

  240.  #240Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 6:44 pm


    Lol…Glad you get the humor 🙂

    Here is another one for you 🙂

    I just so love her straightforward…no bullshit talk…



    Warm hugs,

  241.  #241Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    She permits and encourages the free exchange of ideas (which hearsay tells me Evan does not?), and uses very few psychological principles of control and manipulation (I say “very few” bc she of course uses a minimal amount as required by adequate marketing 🙂 ).

  242.  #242Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 6:46 pm

    Lucy you know CCarter suggests something about reality and ideal and how that plays out for us in our lives. The words “that people are biased towards confirming their existing beliefs” reminded me of that. He suggests that we tend to want what is happening in our minds to be our reality so we go out looking to create it in real life. I believe he suggests that in the context of women asking certain questions of men wanting them to validate the relationship and where it’s at as an example of when we are thinking in our minds that we should be in a committed relationship. His writing is kind of geeky with a lot of psychological references/theories and he does a lot of work around identifying beliefs and suggesting changing the ones that are not working.

  243.  #243Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 6:48 pm

    Lucy #238:

    I sooo agree with you…Rori is an AMAZING leader …I have dealt with so many women running their own business…and by far, she has done an amazing job in fostering growth, acceptance, and vision for every woman out there sharing her vision or not…

    Warm hugs,

  244.  #244Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 6:49 pm

    Lucy that puts in a bit of context for me in understanding where people are coming from and explaining their reactions. I do however remember the comment about truth without compassion is not truth that I understood might be embraced by Rori.

  245.  #245Senior Lady Vibe on April 9, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    @228: luzydel says:
    “… there was a cute guy checking Me and Myself out and we both decided that he was into both. So we both flirted with him…”

    I love this! You are on your way. 😀


  246.  #246Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    RE 243 I believe that and the reason why I was concerned that she brought him here like she brings other coaches and this is the first time I see that kind of response to one. I couldn’t help wondering if our response was questioning her leadership ability.

  247.  #247Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    Luzydel 228. LOVE LOVE LOVE IT! i am smiling ear to ear just reading it! 🙂

  248.  #248Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 6:54 pm

    DE 243. Thanks. Feels good to hear. Yes, Rori seems to have a great deal of integrity.

  249.  #249Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 6:55 pm

    Winnie I am wondering if these words “And if you are a woman who instinctively” are the crux of the matter for me with cdating. Or maybe with EMK’s understanding? I have noticed that I instinctively reach out. It is what I have seen all my life. I don’t it without thinking and have to consciously shut myself down at times now. I am wondering if in shutting myself down sometimes I am not being authentic?

  250.  #250Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    The funny thing too about Evan’s assertions is that SO many of us here are practically Allergic to group-think! Lol! Just look around at all the diversity of opinions, independence, and outside-the-box freedom to be whoever the heck we are and think whatever we want to think. Lol.

  251.  #251Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    Rori talks about how we do some things that might seem innocuous to us, but others experience it differently.

  252.  #252Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 7:03 pm

    The group think piece I thought was a bit off-base particularly taking into consideration how many people have questioned the lean back tool and cdating itself. He however might not have noticed that depending on how often he visits the blog and whether he reads all the comments.

  253.  #253Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 7:04 pm

    Yes, Lucy…

    Rori recognizes the gray areas and she embraces it…Evan is challenging it…but that’s his problem…

    Gray area thinking does not promote group thinking…to the contrary…there is room to grow…and expand your own being…:)

    Warm hugs,

  254.  #254Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    FW. 242. I have only read a little of CC. He seems to have some good ideas. I don’t personally resonate with his writing style though.

  255.  #255Senior Lady Vibe on April 9, 2011 at 7:10 pm

    Going now to read more of the Ian Kerner book. So far it resonates!


  256.  #256Senior Lady Vibe on April 9, 2011 at 7:11 pm

    “Be Honest–You’re Not That Into Him Either”

  257.  #257Darling Ella on April 9, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    On a lighter note, I wonder how often does Rori goes behind her couch, on her knees to release the anger she might feel from what we post here…:)

    Sorry Rori, I had to share this 🙂

    Warm hugs,

  258.  #258Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    Lucy when I started reading CCarter I was triggered. It seems to be circular talking and kind of preying on the women love solving mystery concept. Seems he never gets to the point. What I eventually realized is that he injects new information into old newsletters and as I kept reading I got used to the style and started to get value from his information. As DE described it some time ago it was a bit like blahblahblahblah. However as I have stated before I have come to believe that people’s opinions are valid and they have a reason for believing what they believe because of their experiences. Until they find something to replace that belief they will continue to hold onto it. I might not agree with them but that does not change the fact that their belief is valid to them and to some others. As such I am now practicing giving people the space to at least express themselves where in the past I used to jump in before they were finished and cut them off because I guess I was not feeling heard/validated/or seen. Now I practice remaining silent or using Rori’s nodding tool or just hhhhhmmmmm.

  259.  #259Winnie on April 9, 2011 at 7:24 pm

    249: Femininewoman says:
    “I have noticed that I instinctively reach out. It is what I have seen all my life. I don’t it without thinking and have to consciously shut myself down at times now. I am wondering if in shutting myself down sometimes I am not being authentic?”

    FW, I think I have read here that you are familiar with Dr Paul? One of his theories that femininity resides in the reptilian brain and is purely instinctive.
    I wonder if your instinctive reaching out is more a behaviour due to personality style, a nuturing style, such as with Queen and Lover personality styles (KWML) which would place it in the emotional brain and reflect your in-born strengths. I would think that to idea is not to shut down those parts of your character, but rather to seek to develop the opposite personality traits further as part of becoming more rounded. And to seek a partner who can bring those opposite traits to you.

  260.  #260Sirenjen on April 9, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    @ 234… Of course first dates are supposed to be fun, lol 🙂 …I plan on having fun. But I also feel that “omission is betrayal” to a certain extent, and I want any kind of relationship to be built on honesty from the get-go.

    I am not looking for someone to be a dad to my kids, per se, because they have a great dad already….my ex is very involved in their lives, and we’ve remained cordial and cooperative. I have done a lot of soul-searching and self-work over the past 2 years or so, and feel at a place where I want a man, not necessarily “needing” a man, if that makes sense. 🙂

    I guess I feel like being a mom is a big part of who I am, and it is a big piece of “life” information that someone needs to know so that they can decide if it’s something that they can handle. If the tables were turned and I was single/no kids….and let’s say he failed to tell me that he was a single dad because “it never came up”…I would feel betrayed in a way and would also feel disconnected because it’s a big part of someone’s life.

    And “approach” was probably the wrong word to use…because that’s leaning forward, right? LOL 🙂

    I’ve seen posts on here that some of you are single moms too — when or how did that topic come up? When is the appropriate time? 1st date…2nd date?….

  261.  #261Winnie on April 9, 2011 at 7:29 pm

    FW, so glad that your father is out of the hospital, mine is too: )

  262.  #262Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    232 Winnie. Great points.

  263.  #263Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 7:32 pm

    Winnie I have to admit when I first started paying attention to him I was mostly Warrior in my emotional style. As I became more and more intimate with me I realize it was a mask I had developed and believed because of an unconscious need to protect myself. I grew up in a family that in a nutshell I was rejected as not good enough and unworthy of love. As I began to peel the layers off I realized I did not like the warrior and mourned its death. I have come to accept that I prefer and feel like the Lover and have tried to develop the Queen. Dr. Paul’s concepts are a bit difficult and challenging for me or it might just might be me not wanting to do the work. I remember when first checking I was more on the Warrior/Queen side but felt it was not a real reflection of who I am. Thanks for suggesting I review the material and building up on my strengths. Another Siren has recommended that so I guess it is really time for me to focus on that.

  264.  #264Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    SirenJen let it be organic. Mom is not the only title you wear. I have also seen other coaches mention that guys feel they are competing with the kids because the woman keeps bringing it up. They recommend not mentioning it. You might be wanting to be honest and upfront, there will be a lot of time for that. Guys however could view that as you already seeing them as husband and father which could initiate the eeeeewwwww response from them, is what I have read.

  265.  #265Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    Winnie glad to hear your father is doing okay too.

  266.  #266Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 7:39 pm

    252. Exactly, FW. And how many times do women here say “uh oh! so and so had such and such experience and now I don’t know what to think about RR concepts!” – that is confirmation bias NOT in action.

  267.  #267Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 7:41 pm

    Lucy I appreciate you working through the discussion with me. I have to admit my first impression of you was snappy and dismissive when I was new to the blog. But you have certainly helped me, I believe twice now, to work through differences that might have normally escalated into conflict for me. I really am getting a sense that I can fight without losing a friend and to bring an energy to the discussion that matches the “crime”. That is big for me as I used to fight and totally write people off for life. I have learnt from Dr. Paul that indicates the level of maturity and boundary strength or weakness. Thanks again.

  268.  #268Laughing Goddess on April 9, 2011 at 7:43 pm

    Hi all! I feel so appreciative of Rori and the openness, freedom, and support that she offers here. Wow! I feel so inspired by her.

    I don’t feel all that triggered by what EMK said here.

    I am personally not a fan of his tone. It doesn’t really trigger me, just kind of turns me off.

    I do believe that he means well and has some valuable ideas to share.

    I too, felt a little triggered by a few responses to him that I saw here. For me, it is a bit like disrespecting Rori. She invited him here and has been gracious in her responses to him. It inspires me to do the same. I don’t mean to be judgmental of anyone here. We all have certain things that trigger us. I totally get that.

    Mostly I feel thankful for the discussion and happy that we can all find clarity about what cd-ing means to us.

  269.  #269Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    I have read about a concept of “the relationship” not having to be on the line just because there is disagreement. That was a concept that was foreign to me. I have experienced my mother walking away emotionally for days when there is a disagreement. I have learnt from John Gottman and Gay Hendricks the concept of “turning towards” a partner and responding to “emotional bids” to heal relationship disagreements. This to me was an example of this concept that I am learning to embrace and practice. I guess though in such times men become emotionally “flooded” and end up walking away or withdrawing.

  270.  #270Laughing Goddess on April 9, 2011 at 7:52 pm

    FW re 269

    oh my gosh! I am learning that too. I always thought a fight meant it was over. I feel so free seeing how disagreements can actually bring people closer.

    Also, the emotional bids… I’m working on that too. LI often makes emotional bids to move on from a disagreement first. I tend to cling to my anger and closed heart. It takes me longer to let go and let love back in.

    I’m trying to do less of that and to keep my heart open during disagreements.

  271.  #271Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 7:52 pm

    FW – thanks. I feel embarrassed reading your first impression of me.

  272.  #272Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 7:53 pm

    Lucy I should also add that at one point in time when you were hurting because of some comments here I felt your humanity and now I feel like we are kindred spirits. I really do appreciate you.

  273.  #273Winnie on April 9, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    FW, I always feel comfortable reading your posts on the blog, I think because there are many similarities in our styles.

    You come across to me as being a Queen personality, one who is nuturing and advising, and one that others come to for advice and also left brain dominant, in that you gather facts and evidence to back up your advice. I don’t think that you should try to shut down that side of you at all.

    Dr Paul also says that when taking KWML quizzes, people often identify with a different personality style because those are the traits that they are trying to develop more in themselves.

  274.  #274Laughing Goddess on April 9, 2011 at 7:55 pm

    FW: I haven’t heard about leaning towards the person and emotional bids before but I immediately resonated with it.

    Can you give me more info about where you read this? I saw the two coaches you mentioned. Did you by chance here it on the summit talks?

  275.  #275Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 7:56 pm

    Please don’t it was my impression and though they say impression is everything you were able to help me change that impression, I was obviously wrong. Many times we misunderstand people because we don’t give them a chance to show themselves in relationships. I guess it goes to show that when cdating we should really pay attention to the type of first impression we create as suggested by Bob Grant. He tells a story about someone who made a first impression on a guy from across the room that she was totally unconscious of. Two years later he looked up the girl when he was ready to get married and she was his “one”.

  276.  #276Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 7:57 pm

    I have also had that experience of disagreement/conflict ending a relationship. However, my parents have always been a great example of the Gottman and Hendricks concepts you mentioned. They are both strong and smart and wise and passionate – and have many disagreements – but always work things out and love each other deeply and completely.

  277.  #277Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 8:03 pm

    There is a class at my church that uses John Gottman’s cds. I actually recommended it to the teacher and because he is a licensed counselor he was able to purchase the material. In it he talks about the emotional bids but I read it in his book The Relationship Solution but I have read several of his books. In turning towards your partner Gay and Kathlyn Hendricks have an awesome practice where they recommend physically facing your partner after an argument and sitting there for a few minutes until your body rhythms synchronize with each other again and you start experiencing each others as friends. I did something similar in a Landmark Forum a few years ago. It was so emotionally baring and profound that several people in the group broke out crying as they faced each other though they were complete strangers before the Forum. It seems that as we face each other and look into each others eyes without talking and just experience each other we touch both our humanity and our divinity and it becomes clear that we really are connected. I know it was more than you asked for but I find each coach has a different strength and outlook on things that is really rewarding.

  278.  #278Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 8:05 pm

    I have an interview with Relationship Experts I believe I got from CCarter that has Gay Hendricks explaining the exercise but if I am not mistaken when you sign up on his website it might be one of the freebies that is given away.

  279.  #279Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 8:07 pm

    Wow Lucy that was touching. It is no wonder you so passionately want a rewarding relationship of your own.

  280.  #280Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    RE 273 Thanks Winnie for that reminder in being intimate with oneself so that one can really flourish and share oneself in a relationship. I have been convinced that I should develop those other sides to be more rounded but have procrastinated because of fear of success I guess. I also have a Lover/Queen female in my circle of friends and have been a bit judgemental of her ease in crying and maybe a little jealous of her ease with being feminine. I have learnt a lot from her though now that I am here on Rori’s blog. And yes I intend to do that work to develop that rounded personality. Balance is important to me.

  281.  #281Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    RE 270 LG remember how Rori encourages us to find out anger. I have seen her saying it can bring people closer. I can say the same thing about CCarter and Gay Hendricks, though Hendricks say it in a slightly different way. I have to say there are people in my life that I have had big disagreements/fall out with who are now bffs. Funny how things were eh.

  282.  #282Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    how things “work”, typo. I have many of those but have learnt to laugh at myself.

  283.  #283Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 8:55 pm

    I finally read all the way up to comment #1. Camile, I like what you wrote there. The bit about doodling names together made me smile. 🙂 Several women have mentioned the cooking question. I don’t like to cook, and my ex didn’t cook at all, so I always cooked. My sister’s hubby does almost all the cooking in their home. My dad always cooked breakfast and made the coffee before mom even got out of bed. 🙂 But mom always cooked dinner.

  284.  #284Emerson on April 9, 2011 at 9:02 pm

    Hi beautiful ladies…I’m catching up on the blog posts of past several hours and wanted to reply to a couple of waay earlier posts:

    #6 femenergylove I’m sorry I don’t know why I didn’t see this post earlier! ((Hugs)) to you and I’m sorry you were having a hard time. ;-( Your post really touched me because you just described, almost EXACTLY, how I spend some of my days off!!!! I get so sad and lonely, I hade it.

    It’s a weird feeling in the pit of my gut when I feel lonely and want to reach out to the “unavailable one” who I am still chemically and physically attached to…even though we are not even seeing each other at the moment…he is in the midst of a looong divorce, so I had to cut him loose. But…I’ve done the same thing…call him to find his phone is off….then leave him alone so he can sort things out, only to NOT hear from him whatsoever, even though our last meeting was sweet and romantic and close (but not necessarily sex) etc etc…. SIGH

    At that point, I feel like I need some support and reach out to my friends…and nobody answers the phone. I end up going home and watching TV in bed and feeling sad.

    I hate this feeling.

    One thing that’s helped me pull out of it is being good to myself by doing my nails or something else nice to myself. Even though sometimes I don’t even feel like it….I try to do something and then thank myself like Daria does…I love that….:-) it does help. Just a suggestion.

  285.  #285Femininewoman on April 9, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    Lucy is your daughter any better?

  286.  #286Emerson on April 9, 2011 at 9:09 pm

    #20 femininewoman, I hope your Dad recovers quickly. ((hugs)) to you and you sound like a very caring daughter.

    I think as women, Dads are so important to us! I still feel like a little girl when I am with my Dads…regardless of the baggage in tow….and I want to be happy and embrace that.

    #27 Lillybelle …you want to be the GIRL not the MAN…good for you and stick to your guns miss siren!!!!!
    Thanks to this blog and all you sirens….I averted a near tragic online dating mishap….one guy asked me to meet him halfway….and I decided not to take him up on the invite. He doesn’t live THAT far either! I got kind of annoyed then let it go…and just moved on, but I was THIS close to replying and saying sure I will meet you!
    I had to snap out of my old habit and catch myself…becaues I could hear you sirens telling me “don’t travel to him, he has to come to you!”

    This guy was not all that anyway….I love men…..but this one I had to throw back….haha

  287.  #287Emerson on April 9, 2011 at 9:10 pm

    *Dad not Dads…LOL I only have one!! 😀

  288.  #288Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 9:10 pm

    272 FW, thanks. I appreciate you too. <3

  289.  #289Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 9:21 pm

    273 Winnie, I agree. I appreciate FW’s straightforward style and attention to words. I tend to also be a “say what you mean and mean what you say” kinda gal. I am still learning to communicate better w ppl who are not like that – my daughter especially, who has told me, “Listen to my heart, not my words.” Poignant. It’s challenging for me though, as it’s so different from how I communicate with great respect for and attention to the actual words. Love for my daughter compels me to learn. 🙂

  290.  #290Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 9:26 pm

    FW, my daughter is back at school with IV antibiotics. Not much better yet – and in fact coughed up a lot of blood yesterday. 🙁 She is a brave and beautiful girl… wow, I’m crying now. I love her so much and want for her to have some healthy happy days. She too wants a boy to love. Thank you for asking. I am glad that your father is doing better. <3

  291.  #291Alonka on April 9, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    Back from my dinner and a movie date. Nice restaurant, fun movie – Catherine Deneuve and Gerard Depardieu (!!) – new comedy and they are amazing as always.

    I didn’t like him 😉

  292.  #292Emerson on April 9, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    I want to share with you something that happened on the online dating site I recently subscribed to. A man contacted me, that on paper is totally my type, but not necessarily my physical type…but he was very charming, smart and persistent in his dialogues with me…so I responded. I thought hmmm.. I will give this a try and see what happens.

    We exchanged a few emails and then phone numbers (he asked)…this is the same man that I asked you ladies for advice about when he asked for my number…what to say…

    Anyway, then he called and left a message, I didn’t pick up the phone because I didn’t recognize the number. In the message, he asked me to send photos.

    I returned his call and left a message….and sent him really cute pics of me, at least *I* thought they were…and after that he deleted me from his favorites and I haven’t heard from him!

    LOL…I know it is ok. But just weird…this online dating thing. I don’t know what to do but laugh sometimes!

    Apparently, I was not his physical type after all…or not sure why he changed his mind so quickly…I felt kinda insecure about it. But it’s ok…just kinda funny.

  293.  #293Emerson on April 9, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    #291 Alonka, I love your honesty. Glad you liked the movie though!

  294.  #294Alonka on April 9, 2011 at 9:32 pm


    Antibiotics may take a few days to kick in? Perhaps your girl can do some sort of online dating too?

  295.  #295RiverGirl on April 9, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    286: Emerson says:
    “I think as women, Dads are so important to us! I still feel like a little girl when I am with my Dads…”

    283: Lucy says:
    “My dad always cooked breakfast and made the coffee before mom even got out of bed. But mom always cooked dinner.”

    It was the same in my family Lucy, the funny thing was though that my sister and I used to compete with each other for the chance to help Dad with cooking breakfast, but had no interest what-so-ever in helping Mum with making dinner – that just seemed like a chore! Sorry Mum; )

    I was still thinking about Lucy’s comment when I read yours Emerson, Dads are SO important. I think that is one of the reasons I have been so uncomfortable about setting out to start a family on my own as many of my friends are urging me to do. There are a few tears as I write this, because I would dearly love to have a child before it is too late (may already be) but I know deep down that I am doing what is right for me and I will wait until there is a “father” in the picture.

    ps New name, but not a new siren, just thought that I needed a bit more anonymity here.

  296.  #296Emerson on April 9, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    BTW I do have pics on my online profile on the dating site…so he had an idea of what I look like…but he was asking for more.

    Not to be conceited but I’ve been told I don’t look 39 and that I’m a good looking woman…I get a few looks from men, even when I have a few extra pounds on me I just get really curvy!

    I love my curves.
    Thank you Emerson for exercising this week.
    Thank you Emerson for taking care of my taxes.
    Thank you Emerson for buying me new makeup so you can look your best.
    Thank you Emerson for taking me out to have coffee and read.

  297.  #297Alonka on April 9, 2011 at 9:36 pm


    In these situations I always think – in the moment it’s sort of unpleasant, but the truth is that tomorrow I may remember it for 2 mins out of my 24-hour day. the day after tomorrow for 50 sec and then forget it ever happened.

    I would not send photos on voicemail request. Why? It doesn’t feel good somehow. Wouldn’t bother. To call him back and talk – yes.

  298.  #298LonePlum on April 9, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    About courage, authenticity, vulnerability, letting go of control etc…



  299.  #299Emerson on April 9, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    Thanks Alonka…
    I agree with you. I will not do that again….send pictures. I’m just reacting to his request and knee jerk sent them. Durr…not very sirenish.
    I’m learning.
    Baby steps.

    RE: the pictures, yes, it feels weird now that I am just thinking of it.


  300.  #300Alonka on April 9, 2011 at 9:41 pm


    ‘I’ve been told I don’t look 39 and that I’m a good looking woman’ – feels confusing to read. I did not question how pretty or young looking you are. I assumed by default that you are really pretty. I was strongly questioning his behavior and his nerve to leave a request on your voicemail to send your photos as his first communication with you.

  301.  #301Emerson on April 9, 2011 at 9:43 pm

    Thanks Alonka…I think I sent that post before I read yours…so I wasn’t responding to yours and I didn’t take your prior comment that way at all. 😉 Thanks for clarifying though. 😉

  302.  #302Emerson on April 9, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    and thanks for your kind words of support!! Yes i guess he had some nerve asking for the pictures!!
    And thanks for assuming that I am pretty!! 😉
    I think all women are beutiful regardless of age!!
    Beautiful sirens.

  303.  #303Alonka on April 9, 2011 at 9:45 pm


    Was wondering if you saw Potiche yet 😉 It’s fun!

  304.  #304Alonka on April 9, 2011 at 9:47 pm

    One thing about tonight that I’m not so happy about – was too lazy to practice the tools. I just knew he wasn’t my type and didn’t go for it.

  305.  #305LonePlum on April 9, 2011 at 9:48 pm


    I hope the antibiotics will start working soon and your daughter gets a break, bless her heart.


  306.  #306Emerson on April 9, 2011 at 9:48 pm

    295 River Girl, I want a family as well, and I’m not getting any younger either. eeek…sometimes I get scared it may never happen. I’m being patient for the right guy though.

    I feel you are being true to yourself and your beliefs and values and choosing carefully the Dad for your children.
    Smart Siren!!!

  307.  #307Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 9:49 pm

    Emerson 🙁 Sorry that happened with the pics. 🙁 RiverGirl … a new mystery … I wonder who you are… 🙂 Alonka – She tried a bit of okcupid and pof, but didn’t like it at all. Yes, hopefully the antibiotics will kick in soon. Thanks for caring. <3

  308.  #308Alonka on April 9, 2011 at 9:51 pm


    Yes, that’s how it felt to me right away – a red flag. A good decent guy would have more respect, consideration and be eager to talk to you once he got your number. Then he would ask you out to see if there’s chemistry. Not request more photos delivered. lol

  309.  #309Emerson on April 9, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    Thanks Lucy! 😉

  310.  #310Alonka on April 9, 2011 at 9:55 pm


    I’m not an expert at all, but POF seems to have a lot of players? Are there any dating sites for nice normal young people?

  311.  #311Emerson on April 9, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    LOL…thanks Alonka. I really appreciate it! I don’t know why I feel obliged to send pictures anyway! Sheesh.

    Annoyed with myself.

    Argh…I feel so dating incompetent sometimes.

    I’m so naiive.

    I want to be a siren, not naiive.

  312.  #312Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 9:58 pm

    Loneplum, thank you so much. I’m crying again… I can’t even imagine what it’s like to live 23 years with very few days of feeling good physically. 🙁

  313.  #313LonePlum on April 9, 2011 at 10:00 pm


    No, I have not seen it.
    I don’t like the sight of Depardieu. Nor his tone of voice.
    Was it fun?


  314.  #314Alonka on April 9, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    Emerson, it’s all experience! Learning myself every day. Plus it’s easier to see things straight from the outside.

    I bet next photo lover will get your ‘due to popular demand all catalogues have been distributed. Your queue number is 12645243657’.

  315.  #315Emerson on April 9, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    314 Yay..Now I am laughing…. 😀

  316.  #316Alonka on April 9, 2011 at 10:06 pm


    Oh I see. Catherine Deneuve is so beautiful. But he is a big part of this movie, you wouldn’t probably enjoy it if you don’t like him.

  317.  #317Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 10:08 pm

    Alonka – “nice normal young people” Lol. 🙂 The paying sites may have a better selection, but she doesn’t want to spend the money. She did try to do eharmony but they rejected her, which hurt her feelings and we have no idea what their problem was! – but Dorothea (a siren who hasn’t been around much lately) said they rejected her too.

  318.  #318Alonka on April 9, 2011 at 10:10 pm


    How can eharmony ‘reject’ you? Did they give their reason? Do they not have matches for her?

  319.  #319Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 10:16 pm

    They would not give a reason. I even emailed them about it. Dorothea said that for her she figured it was bc she didn’t fit into any of their “boxes” (if I remember correctly) so maybe it was the same for my daughter, I don’t know.

  320.  #320Emerson on April 9, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    That is so weird about eharmony. I had no idea.

  321.  #321Lucy on April 9, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    I feel mostly at peace right now about the whole Evan thing – but honestly a bit afraid of it getting stirred up again if/when others (maybe even Evan!) read my bold comments from today. I don’t like conflict. And I don’t want to feel bad. Big breath. It will be okay no matter what, Lucy.

  322.  #322turquoise3 on April 9, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    HI ladies 🙂 What a long day… I took the girls to softball, went to my friends housewarming party and then met a high school friend I haven’t seen in 19 years for dinner. It was nice to see him, he lives in California now and is in the navy. We had a nice time catching up.

    Sirenjen, I wouldn’t worry, I’m sure an opportunity will come up during your date where you can mention you are a mother. Something as simple as him asking how your weekend was, could be an opportunity to say, oh it was great …. we went to the park, etc. I remember your previous post about wanting to be completely honest with him, and telling him you asked the choir teacher to put in a good word for you.. and then again today, you want to be completely honest about being a mother…. it’s good to be honest, but I wouldn’t worry about what information you haven’t given him yet. If there hasn’t been an opportunity for it to come up, you weren’t omitting anything. Besides, do you really think he wouldn’t want to meet you for dinner just because you have children? It’s just dinner, you aren’t planning a life with him yet. You might meet him in person, see he’s rude to the waiter or doesn’t tip the waitress, or chews with his mouth open or doesn’t look like his pictures, or is on his cell phone the whole time… and decide all on your own that he’s not right for you. 🙂 Just go with it, be honest, but I wouldn’t make a big deal about telling him, or contact him before the date because you feel like you need to be honest. Unless he asked you if you have kids and you said no, you aren’t being dishonest.

    I am a single mom, and most dates I’ve been on have resulted from being online, or with old friends, friends of a friend, etc. so they’ve all known before our dates that I’m a mom. It’s written on my dating profile, because I feel the same as you, it’s part of who I am. I used to lead with it…

    Divorced, single mom of two girls…. blah blah blah…

    Now, it starts with…
    Hi everyone… I’m an attractive, kind, outgoing and positive person. I am from a large family, have a nice group of friends, and two beautiful girls of my own. (8 and 10) It would be nice to meet someone special to share free time with. Then I talk about my hobbies and interests, and what I’m looking for.

    Hope this helps! 🙂

  323.  #323LonePlum on April 9, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    316 Lucy

    I can’t either. It is so unfair.
    She was lucky to be born your daughter. Your love is the medicine without which she could not make it


  324.  #324Emerson on April 9, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    Lucy I’m sorry about your daughter. I cannot imagine.

  325.  #325Emerson on April 9, 2011 at 10:51 pm

    I don’t mean sorry like pity but I empathize with you and her both.

    I grew up with a sister who has been ill her whole life. She’s on meds and doing ok, but it’s always a battle. It gets tiring/sad.

  326.  #326turquoise3 on April 9, 2011 at 10:54 pm

    I have heard from a few men that they were rejected from Eharmony… no idea why they do that. I tried it for 3 months, only met one guy, who wasn’t my type, but I wanted to be open to it, even though I wasn’t attracted to him, but apparently I wasn’t his type either. He sent me a text right after our date to tell me that, lol. Which wasn’t even really a date. i was out with friends for the 4th of July, he had no plans, no one to go watch fireworks with, so I invited him along… sheesh 🙂

    I have had the best success with POF. I’ve gone out with probably at least 10 people I’ve met on there. Some were fun, two I really liked, none were terrible, just a few who lied about their age. The paying sites, I think have fake profiles on there to draw you in, and a lot of people leave their profiles up, even when they are no longer active, so it’s frustrating when they send you a match, and the person isn’t even active. When I cancelled my membership, I started getting tons of emails, winks, etc. It was ridiculous.

  327.  #327turquoise3 on April 9, 2011 at 10:56 pm

    Lucy, I think we should just drop the Evan thing. At this point, it’s like beating a dead horse to keep discussing it. There are two perspectives here, I am just taking it as that. I hope your daughter feels better soon too 🙂 Thinking of you both.

  328.  #328turquoise3 on April 9, 2011 at 10:58 pm

    Alonka, sorry you didn’t like your date, but at least you enjoyed the movie 🙂

  329.  #329turquoise3 on April 9, 2011 at 10:58 pm

    Goodnight sirens 🙂 Zoo tomorrow… and I need sleep!

  330.  #330Jacqueline on April 9, 2011 at 11:02 pm

    Hey you all….my new blog partner wrote another post and it’s cracking me up; wanted to share it with everyone because ummm, well, do you all think I would’ve written a post called Be Patient with Life??? rofl….the perfection of the Universe with a sense of humor….

    Hope all are well, happy and fixing to be “tucked” sweetly into sleep….

    sleepytime tea for all!

    Night sirens and darlings and divas!

    Be Patient with Life


    How to End Up Happy

    I do not make resolutions as those, by definition, are things to “keep” which sets me up for failure cause I have a problem with letting things go that no longer serve me. (see last blog) Instead, I make a list of things to let go of. I write them out separately on little slips of paper and then burn them. Now how to make this work for my TO list? Simple, keep three lists. The one with the items that need to be done and the list of items you would like to be done. The third I will discuss later.

    Example: when making a list of things to do in a room during spring house cleaning, which does not necessarily come every year: I write out items such as: wash down the walls and floors. On the second list, I write out items like: sand and re-finish the floor or items I come across while cleaning like scrape out the old caulking around the window panes and re-caulk.

    When I am done with my first list, I look over the second list. If I can actually do an item now, in a minimal amount of time, without causing a delay in getting to the other rooms and I still want to do it (It has to meet all four of the criteria.), then I go ahead and do it and mark it off the list. If not, I write each item down on a separate slip of paper then I either burn the slip, give it to my husband (so he can throw it away and three years later when the window pane falls out ask why I did not tell him it needed re-caulked.) or put it on my “wish” list; the third one I was speaking of earlier.

    This third list can be important. It contains items such as “buy new curtains for the living room.” I washed, dried and re-hung the curtains that were in the living room in order to finish the spring house cleaning but I did not like it. I wanted new curtains. However, I am not going to stop production so I can go out shopping for the next three days looking for the perfect pair and in so doing, come back with bag after bag of other things I found that I like/need/want for that or a separate room now or sometime in the future when I get to it. No, I put it on my “wish” list. Now I wait for the magic to happen.

    While out shopping for floor wax for the next room on my list or any other responsibility that causes me to be out shopping, I expect to happen upon the perfect set of curtains for the living room and I can then purchase them. They will not be something I just happened across and decided I liked or had to have and brought home but don’t know what exactly to do with; that is “junk”. Junk is bought to fill up a empty hole in myself that then becomes a burden to unload at a later date. No, the curtains will be an item on my “wish” list, something I desire the universe to put in my path. It is not a huge list of all that I desire for now and in the future but a sincere list of things that I have a place for right now in my life and I am willing to be patient for it to appear.

    Putting new curtains on my list does not mean that I will find them but that I am patient with life as it occurs. But what does that mean?

    It means that while waiting patiently for the curtains to arrive in my path, a crack occurred in the long wall of the living room. This then had to be fixed by cutting out a large portion of drywall in the middle of the wall and ceiling in order to fix the beam that was cracked and then re-painting the entire living room with a new and exciting color to match the pair of curtains I just saw the other day and wished I could have but passed on as they did not match the old drab color of the living room. This makes me happy. Forget that I just washed the walls and the floor, waxed and polished.. I put in the effort where it was due and I received a new living room that I know is clean underneath. All is well.

    See re-painting the whole room was on my list I let go of as, I (actually my husband) did not have the time or inclination to re-paint a room whose color was fine but I was no longer fond of.

    Now, had I been impatient and ran out and spent money as well as the many hours or days searching for curtains in order to finish the room instead of putting it on my “wish” list, I would have been left with two options neither of which would have made me happy.

    Option 1: Re-painting the patch the same old drab color (that would never actually match the old portion left) so as to go with the newly purchased curtains that I had invested quite a bit of time and money on. Then, after spending countless painstaking hours in cleaning. scrubbing. polishing, etc., I am now left with a room not only a drab color but with a patch in the middle of it. Wholly dissatisfied.

    Option 2: Painting with a new and exiting color as I wanted in the first place and knowing exactly where to find the perfect curtains to go with it as I had just seen them the other day which leaves me with giving away the newly purchased curtains. This would have left me feeling angry at wasting the time and money on them which leads me to feeling angry that I wasted all that time cleaning as well which again would have left me dissatisfied.

    So be patient with life. Go about your business, do what needs to be done and take steps toward that brighter future but be patient and allow the universe to either catch up with you or for it to show you a better way; larger than your original desire and end up happy.


  331.  #331LonePlum on April 9, 2011 at 11:17 pm

    210: SirenJen

    He did not ask anything when you emailed on facebook and neither of you told anything about the years gone back since school. So you have not kept anything from him.

    He will either see your kids or toys when he picks you up and will ask if you have children.

    Or during the convo in the restaurant, it will come out naturally while both of you exchange the main events of your life since school.
    He might surprise you and tell you he got 5 kids from 3 women 😉


  332.  #332Jim on April 10, 2011 at 1:55 am


    “While you’re practicing with men – their response is not important in any way except to HELP you, to guide you to undoing old patterns and experimenting with new things and shifting your vibe to what will work SO much better for you in the long run.”

    That means…
    It doesn’t matter what men think or feel while you are practicing on them. Nice work! 🙁


  333.  #333femenergylove on April 10, 2011 at 3:10 am

    i’ve been here before.my attitude stinks right now.i want attention,dont want to reach out for it,to anyone!but i want it!i’m not enjoying the journey.i dont like where i am.ugh.i’m hurting.i’m hurting.i’m hurting.

  334.  #334femenergylove on April 10, 2011 at 3:51 am

    stinkin thinkin…stinkin thinkin

  335.  #335Ella on April 10, 2011 at 4:30 am

    Jim re 332,

    I think Rori means that it doesn’t matter if your leaning forward/back as a woman, and practisinig the tools causes men to respond positively and come forward, or negatively and run the other way!

    We can learn what works. Which is better for everyone in the long run.

  336.  #336SummerBaby on April 10, 2011 at 5:35 am


    big hugs. please be kind to yourself.

    this too shall pass – and sometimes it passes slowly and painfully, like a kidney stone. A bit of warped humor that I hope will make you smile a little. Do some nice things for/with yourself. Spoil you. Did you see Luzydel’s me/myself/I post? Was priceless.

    Be the attention and friend you long for. Give yourself what you want/need from others. Soon you will attract it from other sources.


  337.  #337Alonka on April 10, 2011 at 5:57 am


    Nice posts 😉

    Yes, I didn’t like a few of my dates lately and neither of them failed to invite me over (or try to come over to my place) on the 1st dinner date. Are they nuts?? Complete disconnect from reality lol. I wonder what they’re used to. No actually I don’t..

  338.  #338Lilybelle on April 10, 2011 at 6:01 am


    You and your daughter have been heavily in my thoughts and continue to be.

    What a blessed young lady she is to have you for her mom..and you to have her for your daughter.


  339.  #339LonePlum on April 10, 2011 at 6:21 am

    317: Lucy

    I was wondering if it would be a technical bug?
    May be she could try from another computer?
    Have you read this?


  340.  #340LonePlum on April 10, 2011 at 6:21 am

  341.  #341Alonka on April 10, 2011 at 6:37 am

    I wonder if eharmony has enough under 30 customers.. somehow feel that it’s more for boring older people lol (including myself)

  342.  #342turquoise3 on April 10, 2011 at 6:57 am

    Good morning sirens. I’d actually like to go back to bed, but told the girls I’d take them to the zoo today. They have baby tigers we haven’t seen yet, so very excited! 🙂 It’s going to be 79 degrees here later today, but is still chilly out now.

    I hope everyone has a blessed, relaxing and wonderful day. I haven’t heard from Todd since Friday, so not sure if he’s still planning on bumping into us, but not worried about it either way. Just happy to enjoy the day with my girls 🙂

    *** Alonka, no never ceases to amaze me either.. yuck!!! 🙂

  343.  #343Alonka on April 10, 2011 at 7:04 am

    I’d be very excited about baby tigers too!

  344.  #344Emerson on April 10, 2011 at 7:40 am

    333 femenergylove

    Sending hugs to you

    I like what summerbaby said…to be the friend to yourself.

    I’ve been practicing this, I did it yesterday and it did help me feel better. I really just wanted company when I was studying/shopping/eating. But all my friends are too busy. So I just went on my own.

    There are times when I just want someone to reach out to me and meet my needs and check on me, so I hear what you are saying.

  345.  #345T-Girl on April 10, 2011 at 8:04 am

    Experimenting is the key word in this article. All day yesterday I struggled with sending GAASB an e-mail thanking him for a night dinner on Friday. I remember Alonka asking that same question a few days ago and she was advised not too. But just remembering a comment he mentioned the other night about me possibly dating others and forgetting about him, I decided this morning to send a one-line e-mail letting him know I enjoyed my leftovers yesterday. I know, very lean forward, but I did it anyway. I got an e-mail back from him asking if everything was OK or did he do or say anything out of line and to please clue him in. Now mind you this is a very confident manly man, so it surprised me that he was asking that type of feedback and he was waiting for some type of communication from me. So in this case, I am glad I leaned forward as I hope I get the chance to explore more with him but I will not continue to lean forward.

  346.  #346T-Girl on April 10, 2011 at 8:08 am



    We have all been there so I know how you feel. Just remember your feeling is temporary and you are waiting for the right one, not just “anyone”. It is hard being patient, I know….do some things that make you happy, focus on you and how you can make you feel better, not how someone else can make you feel better.

  347.  #347Alonka on April 10, 2011 at 8:13 am


    Sounds great! Happy that you followed your gut feeling 😉 Not everything depend on us, I feel sometimes that the decision of no contact no matter of what is controlling it too much.

  348.  #348luzydel on April 10, 2011 at 8:25 am

    Me and Myself are going out again today; we are going to the city for some ballroom dancing and socializing with friends.

    Last night myself was thinking about what is it to love one’s self? Me think it starts as a painful and lonely process; it is not as easy as those sappy slogans tell us. Loving ones self is to go deep inside our soul and do an inventory. It feels scary, lonely and painful because we have to face those things we try to hide, with online dating and compulsive shopping and even meaningless sex.
    Loving oneself start with not being afraid that no one will be with us, not being afraid that we will end up alone.

    Myself and Me are having a lot of fun, but myself had to give the “no girlfriend speech” to Me…

    Myself said…”I really enjoy your company and I am feeling empowered with your presence, but I cannot spend all my time with you, I want to keep my options open”…

    Me said…”You don’t get it silly, I have been with you all this time, you just been ignoring me; It was more important to you to browse dating sites, to meet P, D, and all these men than to spend time with me, I am not mad, I forgive you. Remember that none of these men can give you what I can. And even if you decide again to meet and date another man, I will be here; I will just appreciate that when that time comes you do not ignore me I am not going anywhere”…

    Myself promised Me to not ignore her again, and was thankful to Me for not leaving her…

  349.  #349life_is_too_short_to on April 10, 2011 at 8:47 am


    I am so impressed! Yes, Yes, Yes!
    First we have to explore and find out with ourselves why exactly we want a relationship. You said:”
    Loving oneself starts with not being afraid that no one will be with us, not being afraid that we will end up alone.”
    If we are looking for love and security from outside ourselves, we will constantly be disappointed.
    This is why I like Rori’s concept of CDing oneself and all kinds of people, not for the purpose of finding a man, but for seeing self love reflected in everyone.

    This doesn’t mean that we give up our good sense and discrimination as to the kind of people that we go into relationship with.

    I loved your CDing me myself and me post very much!


  350.  #350Emerson on April 10, 2011 at 8:57 am

    347 Luzydel thank you for this post. It spoke to me.

  351.  #351life_is_too_short_to on April 10, 2011 at 9:07 am

    I am in the process of making a radical shift in my belief system about equating sex and love and sex and intimacy. Sexual intimacy is only a small percentage of the intimacy in a good healthy relationship, and I am taking most of the focus off it. It is very fun and experiencing earth shattering orgasms is fun, so, if i want that, I can get it, but I’m not going to tangle it up with love relationship, commitment, etc. It is definitely not to be used as a way to get love or to create intimacy. Now that I have renewed my commitment to self-love, I am not going to be looking for any outside relationship with a man in order to “get love” any longer. What happens, happens. I will be able to see and feel love reflected in everyone. If a love relationship with one man is to happen, it will occur from that. If it doesn’t happen, I will be perfectly fine with that too. Not only that, but it will not be an indication that I am not a “magnet for manlove” or anything like that. It is just that my goal for myself is to be perfectly fine with whatever is happening at all times. This is a big turnaround from what I was saying here not too long ago, how time was running out. I think soon Iam going to be changing my handle here from LITS to something else soon. 🙂

  352.  #352Ella on April 10, 2011 at 9:07 am

    Hmmm I am feeling frustrated right now… like no matter how hard I try nothing ever really changes.

    I feel stuck again.

    Like I have gone backwards.

    Mainly because I lost 1/2 a stone, which was my weight loss goal, and now I have put it all back on again.

    And I am feeling frustrated in general right now too.

    With work, and men, money etc…

    I just seem to be so far from where I would like to be.

    I feel really vulnerable right now.

    And so fed up that I put the weight back on. But its like a programme. I feel good I lose that last 1/2 stone (I don’t need to lose much but look soooo much better when I lose this last bit), then life gets stressful and I get burnt out and tired and bam, I eat lots of rubbish and within a few days to 1 week it is all back on again.

    And I do it to myself.

    I know change is a process, and yet I am sick of always slipping up.

    And having got down to my ideal weight, and now put it back on so quickly I now feel flabby and unattractive!


    It is also tied into working so hard, cus I want to make my businesses work.

    I know all this is just to do with an attutude shift and breaking a few bad patterns.

    It helps loads when I cut out sugar, reduce drinking and curb the carbs.

    Also when I exercise loads.

    There are certain scenarios that trigger me to eat lots of junk, one of them is marking student work.

    I just need a better way to approach this where it doesn’t feel so stressful, then maybe I won’t reach for then junk.

    It is also about planning meals bc sometimes my mum’s partner cooks pies and sausages in the evenings just as I am finishing work and I am really hungry.

    So rather than cook something healthy I tend to get stuck into these!

    I know what I need to do and I can do it.

    But once I am there I want to stay there (at my target weight).

    The other thing is I am sure it is a way of keeping men away a bit too.

    I still have massive fear about letting people close, I have been coming to realise that recently.

    And also that I struggle sometimes with self esteem and NVs.

    I got triggered in the week by this guy coming up and he drinks in the pub where Mr B works, or he used to. He was with the girl that Mr B used to talk about, but they had a volatile relationship and broke up.

    Well I saw him the other day and he was asking me loads of stuff about whether Mr B and that girl are together! Well I don’t bloody know!

    Then he asks me out. Thing is I do not feel good about this. Mr B had told me they broke up cus he was violent with her. That was part of why Mr B used to talk about her quite a lot, cus she would come to him crying when they had had arguements.

    Anyway, this felt very triggerinig for me.. and I think it has been niggling me ever since.

    I don’t want to think about whether he is with her!

    GRRRRRRRR – I feel enraged.

    Need some Daria logic of that if he was attracted to me he still is.

    Feel like a fat, miserable failure right now.

    Also still feel like I am excuding a desperate vibe still 🙁

    I have not been doing any leaning forward with men… I won’t let myself, but still don’t feel my vibe is there.

    I practiced holding eye contact at the supermarket today and I was super rubbish at it! It felt extra terrifying.

    I feel like a guy is going to point at me and say something like ‘who do you think you are! You could never have me! – you are just a desperate loser!’


    Finding it hard to find the self love right now.

    Trying to look after myself.

    I know this all sounds doom and gloom, and I just wanted to be honest.

    I know it is just a phase and it can change on a dime, it just doesn’t seem to be changing much for me right now and it is all my own fault!

    Feeling sorry for self.

  353.  #354life_is_too_short_to on April 10, 2011 at 9:21 am

    To SLV
    I wanted to apologize for making an assumption about your motivations. What I did to you was exactly what is to be avoided doing with the men, thinking we know what they are thinking and why, convinced we are right, playing therapist, giving unasked for advice, etc. I see that you are trying to set the record straight as to what actually were the issues. I also thought it was uncalled for for EMK to say links to his stuff shouldnt be posted here.
    Anyway, I am over it. Hope there will be no bad blood remaining between us, and we can continue to soldier onwards in many more new and fresh moments.


  354.  #355Lily T. on April 10, 2011 at 9:44 am

    Re: #352

    Sounds like someone(s) desperate for attention. Bleh.

  355.  #356Laughing Goddess on April 10, 2011 at 9:55 am

    LIFE: hi! 🙂

    Luzydel: I love hearing about the love affair between you and yourself!

  356.  #357mali on April 10, 2011 at 10:33 am

    Darling Ella: I know I have trouble with my weight, too. And feel crappy when I put on just a little. But when that happens, I focus on the things that I already have a lot of self love for. People tell me I have a beautiful smile, so I look at that in the mirror. And ask myself “Who wouldn’t wanna date someone with that smile?”
    And then extend it to the face:
    “Who wouldn’t wanna date somoene with that face?”
    And then extend it to the whole body.
    It really helps for me to actually feel and touch my body: all those curves. I’d love to lose a little, but I really do love my curves. I feel warm and feminine.
    With/without extra weight, you are still you. And that means you are uber lovable and uber sexy 🙂

  357.  #358mali on April 10, 2011 at 10:35 am

    Also, Luzydel: Absolutely loved your post!! Lovelovelove it!

  358.  #359T-Girl on April 10, 2011 at 10:49 am

    I don’t know if anyone remembers me being upset that SexyOlderGuy blocked my texts…well, I just heard from him via text. He didn’t block me afterall. I didn’t ask for details why his texts were being blocked, but was so excited to see he was thinking about me. Maybe his rubber band is snapping back?

  359.  #360Mel on April 10, 2011 at 11:04 am

    Thanks ladies for your support. I read all of your comments on the last thread.

    I agree, I’m being a bit of a door mat. Too accommodating, too patient, too forgiving. Leaving like that without so much as a word as to his whereabouts- not fair.

    He finally came home on Friday night around 2:30 in the morning. He said he went into his office, grabbed some stuff to read, his mp3 player, and sat in the park to “cool off.” As to why he did not answer the phone- he “didn’t notice it.” I said that his disappearance was not cool and that I deserve to be treated better.

    “I would stir things up. Don’t be so convenient.”

    I like this advice. I think that is the dynamic I have created for myself. Here I am twisting myself into a pretzel and basically just accepting and enabling the bad behavior.

    “Poor baby has to grow up and he feels he missed out because he rushed into school/career/marriage? Gimme a break.”

    That’s exactly how I’m feeling right now. As if he didn’t make his own choices along the way! He seemed perfectly happy with those choices for the past 9.5 years. Now it’s suddenly MY fault that he “missed out on life.” Uh… I thought we had a great life! How many other guys have a wife that financially and emotionally supports them and moves to different countries and different cities so that he can get the education he wants? How many guys have a really pretty wife that actually wants to have MORE sex? He gets fed really well (I’m a great cook) his laundry gets done, he rarely has to clean up around the house. I’m smart, funny and love to have fun. And I was HAPPY to do all of this. Sheesh! Give me a break! He totally just doesn’t appreciate me.

    “We get ourselves all entrenched around a guy and he doesn’t value us because he knows he’s the most important thing in our lives. Time to knock him off the pedastal and put yourself first.”

    EXACTLY! I needed to hear that!

    “I am here wondering if you have considered physical separation”

    I think this might be difficult, especially if I am to start this new job. I had a really good second interview and have been asked to go for some “assessments” on Monday and to provide my references. So I think my chances are good to receive an offer at this point. (…one big yay! 🙂 ) Perhaps this will help me take my focus off of him even more, which may help. If I had the money, I would hop on a plane right now to a sunny destination and relax and revive myself for at least a week. That’s not really doable, but I can definitely make myself a little bit scarce in the next while.

    I’m looking into the 2nd car. If I get this job, that will become more of possibility. On Friday night, I had this moment where I asked myself if I wanted to leave, how COULD I leave? I was physically stranded. I didn’t like feeling so powerless in that situation.

    I was reading some stuff by Alison Armstrong, where she describes the male phases of development. She said it’s typical for men in their early 30’s to suddenly take a look at themselves and say “I have nothing!” This causes a little existential crisis where they reevaluate what they want out of life. Unfortunately, I think because of the tough time I’ve been having adapting to the move, him working all the time, and me being out of work, I was “attached” to the thought of things not being good enough.

    Seriously, the thing that’s so sad about all of this is that the previous 9.5 years had been near “perfect.” That’s why I’m still hoping that things can turn around.

    I see some overall progress if I look back over the past month or so. But it has really been a roller-coaster ride because one day I feel like he’s beginning to step up and the next minute he’s taking off until 2:30 in the morning in the car, or getting completely slobbering drunk at a mutual friend’s birthday and behaving like an idiot. (He’s never done that before).

    I think I need to give myself a timeline whereby if things are not better, or at least to the point where I could feel happier staying than leaving, then I will make a decision to leave.

    This feels a little “one foot in and one foot out” though… I don’t want to have that vibe. I also need to be careful not to have a bitter energy as I am doing things for myself and being less convenient. I still want to be receptive and available, but I don’t want him to have the impression that he can just do whatever he wants and I will just put up with it. I think I need a little help figuring out how to do this with the right energy.

    Well… this is a really long post, but I wanted to thank the above sirens as well as all of the others who have helped me along this rocky path.

  360.  #361Lercomari on April 10, 2011 at 11:11 am

    I feel sort of happy now but also disappointed in myself. I crossed one of my boundaries. The guy who I was suppose to meet for a date this week, we’ve been in touch and I like him a lot. The boundary…well, we had phone sex. I didn’t want to go this far with him but…well you know how when you tell a guy “I’m waiting until such and such time to have sex” and he says, “It’s okay, we can wait until you’re ready” and it’s like the sexiest thing that you’ve ever heard? It was kinda like that. lol. So I let my guard down and we ended up phone sexing. I know that he likes me a lot, but we just met like a week ago and we haven’t even been on a date yet. HtRYW ebook says that if you go “too far” with a guy, don’t try to take it back, just do things different from now on…so I think I will re-read that part of the book.

  361.  #362Mel on April 10, 2011 at 11:19 am

    This seems REALLY interesting!


    “Are you sick and tired of watching men turn their heads for the *other* woman walking down the street? Did your relationship start our fresh and frisky, but now is stuck flat llining in fizzle mode.

    If your man’s power tools are getting more fondling than your fabulous body, it’s time to talk, gifrlfriend. Because the only way this can happen is if you’ve fallen out of touch with your sexy, authentic and feminine essence. But you’re in luck, Ladies. Its time for you to tease your inner tigress and bring her out to play again.

    Allana Pratt is fiesty, she’s frisky and delicious and she’s going to tell it like it is and pass on to you the secrets of atracting the love and attention you deserve! “

  362.  #363Ella on April 10, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Mali re 356

    Was this for me?

    If so thank you!

    🙂 xoxox

  363.  #364Ella on April 10, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Where is everyone today?

  364.  #365Jacqueline on April 10, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    T girl that is amazing! I totally remember and am happy for you – wonder what’s up with the time gap?

    Lercomari – that’s great advice and it’s not like you did what you said you wouldn’t do…you did something different, and it doesn’t mean you’ll ….well you might! Cuz even if you did…that’s NOT chasing, smile. And it might turn out just fine.

    Hiya, Mel – glad to hear about things and have you here.

    Hi Ella!

    I’ve been thinking about this – does anyone really think they’ve chase a guy? I haven’t….I mean I’ve called my ex repeatedly during an arguement….but as far as pursuing someone to have a relationship? Never. I don’t call them, I don’t text ’em, I don’t appear overly concerned about where they are or what they’re doing, I indicate what I want and see what happens…

    The closest I can come would be IF the act of sex were chasing – sex seems to be like fishing? You CATCH them.


  365.  #366Meemee on April 10, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    X sent me a long mail to say he is getting married in two months.
    That he is sorry.
    That i am messing my life by not doing my phd and not doing things and staying indoors
    I am shattred
    I feel so so shattered
    That before going he stabbed his last stab.
    Tears tears

  366.  #367Meemee on April 10, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    This is what he said: he can not help me anymore. I should get over this by going out and meeting people.
    I am getting married. i can not be there for any help. Not that i was of any help to you anyway.
    You dont achieve anything by staying indoors. Please go ahead with your life and deal with your problems. I am not there anymore. Please do not trouble me with any of your health or other issues. I can give you financial help if you need. Nothing more than that.

    I am shocked. I am shocked he could hurt me once more with his mail.
    I am in tears
    I am feeling real real pain

  367.  #368Meemee on April 10, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    And he invited me for a dinner this wednesday so that we can spend some time together and talk.

  368.  #369Ella on April 10, 2011 at 1:41 pm


    Oh my goodness – I am so sorry!

    I feel shocked too. I don’t even know what to say… except thank goodness you are away from this selfish, selfish man!

    But I know that doesn’t ease the pain right now.

    However I hope in years to come you will look back and think what a lucky escape you had!

    Is there anyone (friends of family) you can turn to for support right now?

    Massive hugs to you.


  369.  #370Ella on April 10, 2011 at 1:43 pm



    Is he crazy… he just told you not to bother him with your problems, and now he is inviting you to dinner!!??

    Ok, and breath – yep, I am triggered.

    Memee, what are you going to do?

  370.  #371Ella on April 10, 2011 at 1:43 pm


    Hello! 🙂

  371.  #372Meemee on April 10, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    I am here getting over the pregancy and the abortion and all the related trauma he has caused.
    He is there telling me he is getting married and he does not want me to trouble him or spoil his new found life and i should stay away.
    I am so shocked, and humiliated and insulted and deeply wounded,

  372.  #373Sammie on April 10, 2011 at 1:46 pm


    Hugs to you! It’s been a long road with X. One thing though is it doesn’t sound like he can do nothing more to hurt you after this point. And, you have healed at so many points of this journey.

    I love Rori’s work and it is so valuable. I have also found lately that the “Calling in the One” work is very helpful. There is a book and a course that will start in one week. And, it can be used in more ways than in looking for one’s soul mate. Erika Awakening wrote a very favorable blog on it also.



  373.  #374Meemee on April 10, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    I wish i were dead this moment.
    I wish i had something with me that will help me now to take my life.
    I dont want to feel this hurt and humiliation anymore
    I really dont want to
    I feel life someone just spat on my face.

  374.  #375Ella on April 10, 2011 at 1:54 pm


    Please call someone and talk to them now. Don’t go through this on your own. One of your friends or family or even a helpline – someone will want the chance to be there for you.

  375.  #376mali on April 10, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    Drling Ella re 362: It was indeed, and you’re more than welcome! 🙂

    Today has been a fantastic day- weather’s been gorgeous, and I’m getting through my studying (Go me!)
    I’m just practising being open, and it feels oh-so good.
    *content sigh* My tummy feels huuuge after that carby meal I’ve eaten, but it feels soft to touch.
    Dear tummy, I know you like staying put, but I’m sorry to say you’ll be gone in a few days… watch out!

  376.  #377Sammie on April 10, 2011 at 1:56 pm


    Do you have anyone there you can go be with right now? It sounds like you need some immediate comfort! Are there places you can go to or call when feeling desperate about life in India? Here in the states there are. Is there anyone there who you have been discussing x with?


  377.  #378Meemee on April 10, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    its 2 am here.
    i am alone
    too late to call or talk to anyone

  378.  #379femenergylove on April 10, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    go ahead and cry and hurt.we love you.and nothing i say will make it better.but even as you lay on the floor in pain,i hold your hand.squeeze as hard as you can,i will take it.forget being strong.just be weak,go ahead and be weak.but dont end your life.
    love love love you.

  379.  #380Ella on April 10, 2011 at 2:04 pm


    Hey. 🙂

    Just to say me and Darling Ella are 2 different people!


  380.  #381mali on April 10, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    Meemee: Even if you don’t have someone there, you have us on here. Keep posting.
    If you want to tell us what’s bothering you, then speaking on behalf of the Sirens here, we’re open to it.

    You are a Siren: a beautiful, feeling creature. You are YOU: who else would you want to be? And why would you want to take life- what is such an incredible gift to us- away? I felt so sad reading your post

  381.  #382mali on April 10, 2011 at 2:07 pm

    Ella re 379: Haha ooops! Thanks for letting me know: my inner ditz was completely oblivious to that!

  382.  #383Sammie on April 10, 2011 at 2:17 pm


    If part of you is wanting to hurt x back. Remember that the best way is for him to find out what a wonderful life you have created for yourself.

    You had a shock. It will get soooo much better. But, you have to walk through it.

    I agree with others…Keep posting…and cry, work, walk through it with sirens at your side.

  383.  #384Ella on April 10, 2011 at 2:49 pm

    So in the spirit of being open and authentic if I saw B would it be ok for me to say to him ‘I miss you and I feel sad not seeing you’ – even though I can’t even contemplate getting back with him?

    I am not going to seek him out or contact him, cus I realise that it is not Sireny or useful to initiate and lean forward.

    But last time I saw him and he gave me a lift home, we just drove in silence, and I had all these feelings and wanted to say stuff but I was trying to lean back and felt overwhelmed so I ended up saying something lame like ‘erm I wanted to talk to you cus I didn’t want things to be akward’.

    I would never think to actually tell him how I really felt cus I somehow thought this would be leaning forward.

    Now I think I have this scrambled.

    How I actually feel is sad that we don’t hang out anymore and I miss him but also very resistant to the thought of ‘being’ with him or of somehow being sucked back into being with him.

    Ie: I still feel that I couldn’t actually have a relationship with him as things were, nor would I want to (I wasn’t planning to tell him this part – or at least not unless it came up in discussion).

    But it doesn’t change the missing him a bit feeling.

    And as I am typing this I am also feeling kinda angry.

    I mean dang him, he hasn’t exactly pushed the boat out to try and fix things or make me feel good or see where I am at!

    Grrr, b8stard!

    Hmmm maybe far to much leanback type man for me.

    Ick in fact!


    And what I am learning here is that being open and authentic can mean saying how we feel, even if it is complicated and risky, and even if it doesn’t make any sense.

    Such as missing someone even when I have decided not to be in a relationship with them…

    Yay, that feels like a helpful discovery.

    Thank you Universe I am open to keep learning.

  384.  #385mali on April 10, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    Something just crossed my mind while I was reading your post- surely we need to be authentic, but open to receiving rather than initiating?
    I may be wrong, but the impression that I’ve gotten from Rori’s work is that, even when you find yourself in a situation such as complete silence when you’re with a man, you should wait for him to initiate the conversation? Is that true?
    I personally wouldn’t feel comfortable telling a man what I was feeling if he didn’t atleast try and make conversation! 😉

  385.  #386mali on April 10, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    Random musings: I remember the last “date” I went on…
    I didn’t try and make conversation. Was very feminine, and leaned baaack.
    It felt, strange and a little scary, but good to know that the man was making an effort in trying to come up with so many different things to talk about! What a lovely man =)
    And… I looked HOT

  386.  #387Katarina Phang on April 10, 2011 at 3:03 pm

    Meemee, I’m so sorry. This too shall pass. You can add me on facebook http://www.facebook.com/katarina.phang. I talk a lot about this thing: heartbreak, suffering, heartache, expectations, wanting to be in control, etc…

    It may help you ease the pain a little bit.

  387.  #388Lercomari on April 10, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    @Jacqueline 364

    Thanks for your words..you always make me feel better. 🙂 I really like this guy…I mean really really like. So I’m confident our date will go well. Maybe we will actually have sex…I really want to and he really wants to…I guess it will just depend on the circumstances. I think I am willing to take that risk with him and see where it goes.

  388.  #389Jacqueline on April 10, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    Lercomari – sounds great! I like it, you’ll be a siren success story. In the moment…choosing what feels good to you. When he inevitably falls at your feet, please don’t leave us. I love that you own your sexuality! Smile!

    Memee…I feel like writing an open letter to you – if I, who am twice as old as you and have lived with someone else for a year and a half still wonder wtH? about my ex marrying for whatever reason – a babysitter, to throw a 32 year old in his daughter’s face cuz he couldn’t have me…cuz he hated me? even…if I wake up and wonder about it, I can only imagine what this will be like for you. I really really want to NOT have this be something that traumatizes you and skews your view of basic human dignity for the rest of your life, and I don’t know how to make that happen.

    Please let me know if I can help in any way…sleep is good….rest darlingest…..


  389.  #390Meemee on April 10, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    I cried and cried and cried.
    I cried as i never cried before.
    Now i have a very practical question.
    I have spent hell lot money on the abortion and the related scanning and treatment. I had a bad infection after that and was under treatment for that too.
    He paid only half the expenses. In his mail he made it very clear that he will give me money for all that expenses.
    Should I or should I not take that money from him?

    I have spent a lot of my scholarship money on that. Should I take money?

    A part of me says i should not. Another part of me says I should not mix emotions with money and should make him pay for it.

  390.  #391Lily T. on April 10, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    I’m so sorry for what you are going through. I can’t tell you what to do, but I think he should pay for all the treatment you required. He should be ashamed not to.

  391.  #392T-Girl on April 10, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    Oh Meemee, my heart breaks when I see you type those things obviously in such pain. No man is worth that pain. I wish I could give you a big hug.

    And darn right…take his money! But not if it brings more bad emotions trying to collect it. Then maybe it isn’t worth the hassle.

  392.  #393sweetmandm on April 10, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    Meemee- I am so so sorry for what you are going through!! I send you warm hugs and prayers!!! I think you should accept the money, as it is his responsibility as a man to take care of that (my belief)!

    You are very valuable and if you asked any of your family and friends the question- what your importance is to them, I’m sure they would tell you some lovely things to hear. A counselor once told me to do that and you know what? It totally felt good and worked. Please don’t let the way he is treating you now determine your value….please , please! I have been there myself and thank God I have found my way out of that on more than one occassion!

    Ditto, “keep posting here!” Let it all out hear! we won’t get tired of hearing from you! This is a safe place. I have found it to be.

    I send you prayers and loving thoughts and I know you will be feeling better with time. You just take one day at a time and get through each one using all of the best resources that you can find at the moment. Getting through the night and the early morning hours are ALWAYS the most difficult for me in hard times!

    I also know what it’s like to feel alone, even if you’re not.


  393.  #394Senior Lady Vibe on April 10, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    @353: life_is_too_short_to

    Thank you for your kind words. I apologize for the disrespectful talk and dirty language I used toward you, and the name calling too. It was not nice; please forgive me. I hope to do better in the future and I’m working toward improving my communication skills.


  394.  #395Lilybelle on April 10, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    I am watching Eat, Pray, Love for the first time and had to pause it because the tears are flowing. OMGoodness, I didn’t expect this. To relate in so many ways to the character! I must get the book, there are so many good things in the movie, I can imagine the book will be even more.

    Meemee…I am hugging you.


  395.  #396Senior Lady Vibe on April 10, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    @353: life_is_too_short_to says:
    “…I also thought it was uncalled for EMK to say links to his stuff shouldn’t be posted here….”

    I have to catch up on posts so don’t know if anyone mentioned but… I believe the request not to post was only for newsletter articles not links. Posting links is OK with him as far as I know…I don’t know about Rori; it’s her blog.


  396.  #397Lilybelle on April 10, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    Here is an email I received today from someone on Match:

    *ahem* and I quote:

    “To bad you live so far that is one nice set of boobs you got but I kind of live far away”


  397.  #398Senior Lady Vibe on April 10, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    @396: Lilybelle says:

    “To bad you live so far that is one nice set of boobs you got but I kind of live far away”

    What a charmer…my kind of dreamboat. LOL


  398.  #399Lilybelle on April 10, 2011 at 5:02 pm


    Seriously, I am so happy he lives so far away..Otherwise, I may have been tempted to invite him over so he can feast his eyes on my set.

    LOL!!! 😉

  399.  #400sweetmandm on April 10, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    @396 Lilybelle


    Some classy dudes coming our way at times…ey 😉

    Hey, he was honest.

    Thanks for that post!

  400.  #401Lily T. on April 10, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    @ #398:

    Classic! rofl

  401.  #402tinque on April 10, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    you could have responded, “thank you. nice dick you DON’T have there,”


  402.  #403Lilybelle on April 10, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    Naturally, I haven’t responded but I am tempted to use Tinque’s response.



  403.  #404Sirenjen on April 10, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    I think I blew it tonight with ChoirDirectorMan….I felt sooooo nervous. Conversation was ok. I forgot to use my feeling messages most of the time…ugh! And he didn’t open my car door…or walk me to my door at the end of the date. And I didn’t speak up about it because I didn’t want to come across as a priss.

    He mentioned wanting to go out again towards the end of dinner…

    I feel so confused! I’ve never had this awkward of a date before…lol. Maybe he’s just a nice/shy guy?? I don’t know…

    This is why I hate dating…lol…maybe I’m just not ready.

  404.  #405Lucy on April 10, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    “She was lucky to be born your daughter. Your love is the medicine without which she could not make it”

    Loneplum, thank you for such kind words.

    Emerson and Camile, thank you also.

  405.  #406mali on April 10, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    Lilybelle Re 396:

    I’d probably like to write something along the lines of “Too bad you live so far- means I can’t give you a nice, biiiig
    SLAP” Lol!

    Reading that made me want to PUKE!

  406.  #407mali on April 10, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    Oh, Meemee- I send you so very many hugs *hugs you tight*

    I don’t know your situation, but what I did pick up on is you mentioning not mixing emotions?

    We are about emotions, and feelings- it makes us who we are, my love. So yes, do go on your feelings. I would say “on what feels right to you”, but I’m sure none of this feels “right”

  407.  #408turquoise3 on April 10, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    I just found out my ex husband is deploying to Afghanistan AGAIN in May. He just got back in December. I honestly don’t know how much more of this my girls can take. I’m SO tired of them being hurt and disappointed, and afraid for him. He can’t retire until 2016, Caitlyn will be 16 then, and Chloe 13. I will basically have raised them completely by myself at that point. I am so tired of doing this all by myself, and I can’t even find a boyfriend to enjoy time with, let alone a future husband.

    Todd and his kids met as at the zoo today. Nice, but his teeth were terrible, yuck (black) and he had this straggly go-tee that he doesnt’ have in his pics. He texted me after to tell me how cool of a first meeting it was, wanted to know if I’d like to go on a date. I didn’t want to sound rude, said sure, but that my schedule was booked up for at least the next 10 days. I don’t want to date him. Why can’t I meet a guy that I’d actually WANT to kiss me?

    I MISS TOM. 🙁

  408.  #409Alonka on April 10, 2011 at 5:59 pm


    I’m so sorry it’s not easier. You know, my boy’s father and his family was never involved in any way, either emotionally or financially. Once I wanted a divorce 16 years ago, that was it. we don’t even know where they live. There is no contact whatsoever.

    I’m so to say this, but Tom betrayed you. We have to keep on looking and hoping, this is the only way.

  409.  #410turquoise3 on April 10, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    Betrayed me? You mean by disappearing? Yeah, jerk. At least I liked kissing him though, lol.

    FFFFFFFUUUU######KKKKKKK…………… do things ever get easier????

    I’m so sorry to hear your sons dad and family aren’t involved. That must have been so hard. My ex pays a lot of support, loves the girls, takes them on trips, buys them expensive gadgets, he just has hardly any time with them because of his job, and some choices he made for himself. I know it could be worse, they just take it so hard. I might have to put them in counseling this time. Chloe pretty much cried for 10 months the last time he was deployed. She was so scared for him. Caitlyn holds her emotions in, but I know she hates the situation.

  410.  #411Lucy on April 10, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    Loneplum, thanks for the eharmony links. I had discussed the issue in an email with their customer service rep, and they said that they do reject some people but they wouldn’t say why. Alonka indicated that maybe they don’t have enough members in the younger age group, and don’t want to accept someone who they don’t have many matches for — it would lower their success rates considerably and that would be bad for business!

  411.  #412Lucy on April 10, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    “I will basically have raised them completely by myself at that point. I am so tired of doing this all by myself, and I can’t even find a boyfriend to enjoy time with, let alone a future husband.” (Camile)

    I hear ya! That’s basically how it has been for us. When they were younger, I so much wanted to have a new husband partly so that they would have a father figure around and a good example of a healthy marriage. They are pretty much grown now. 🙁

  412.  #413Senior Lady Vibe on April 10, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    @401: tinque says:
    “…you could have responded, “thank you. nice dick you DON’T have there,”…”

    Oooh, naughty. LOL Better not get me started; I’ve been reading porn- ish ads and writing my own ads (definitely NON PORN) for the last hour.

    I’ve been taking the porn ones and kinda writing the opposite; a challenging game of sorts… 😉


  413.  #414Dorothea on April 10, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    I am just catching up but
    F*CK X
    meemee, talk about being too good for someone.
    and yeah, take all the money he will give you for the abortion.
    f*ck him, he’s an idiot.
    i don’t care if name calling is not very sireny or nice, f*ck him in his stupid face. i hope he gets raped in the butt.

  414.  #415Dorothea on April 10, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    lucy 319 – yeah that was exactly it. eharmony said they couldn’t profile me, i was all over the place. so they didn’t let me through.
    oh well:P

  415.  #416Lucy on April 10, 2011 at 6:27 pm

    Dorothea, you had me scrambling for the LIKE button there, girl!

  416.  #417Lucy on April 10, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    415 is for 413

  417.  #418luzydel on April 10, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    Myself and Me are exhausted, took the long drive back home just to think about things and reflect.
    Myself looked at her cell phone and some strange number sent her a text…”How are you Luv?” hmm, some people are starting to feel the love Me is giving to Myself…Myself Just ignored the message, men are not a priority right now. Myself wants to spent some time with Me alone. Myself Cannot date a man who cannot love her as much as Me.

  418.  #419Lucy on April 10, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    My son wants his laptop back. Boohoo. I had it for about an hour because I made him a mint chocolate chip milkshake. 🙂

  419.  #420Lily T. on April 10, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    Don’t hold back Dorothea :).

  420.  #421Lucy on April 10, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    Luzydel, I feel so inspired by what you are doing and writing now! Thank you for sharing with us. <3

  421.  #422Dorothea on April 10, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    I am noticing that men who are in relationships, perhaps attending the same event as me with their women in tow, are noticing me and flirting with me.

    not the single guys…

    even when their women are in the same room or sitting right next to them, they are noticing me and complimenting me and even talking to me about if i am single and would i like to be set up with a good guy.

    or they just stare and smile.

    and i see their women try to be so nice and patient, but i feel guilty, for i know if i was in her shoes i would feel insecure and furious.

    their women seem pretty sireny themselves as they just lean back the whole time their guys are noticing me and flirting with me. maybe i am a blessing and a message to these couples to remind the women they are sirens too. like, these men are attracted to sirens, and they have sirens, but they’ve lost sight of that and are noticing a different siren for the moment.

  422.  #423turquoise3 on April 10, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    Dorothea, I had that happen to me Friday night… was really a strange feeling. This really attractive guy kept smiling at me, staring at me, was a little unnerving because this beautiful woman sat across the table from him, they were clearly on a date, but I don’t think married. I can’t remember the last time I was checked out like that! Must have been my hot pink siren high heels….

  423.  #424sweetmandm on April 10, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    Ok, so I’m going to risk a little of vulnerability here and share some details and ask a few questions.

    I have been seeing this man (we are not yet in a declared relationship) since Sept. with the exception of a 2 month spell, in which he retreated because I used a Christian Carter line on him, ‘it’s obvious that you don’t know what to do with a different kind of woman once you’ve found one.” He obviously pondered that a while before coming back to me the two months later to say that he was sorry and it was never his intention to make me feel uncomfortable and that I was in his heart.

    Now this is a very good man I am talking about here and I am no longer projecting onto him the beliefs I have formed about men, ie. they always leave/they never step up enough in the first place, they are week n wimpy (ouch and sad), I am tired of the same old same old (which I understand NOW that it’s just men being men) whew….

    I do belive his intentions are good. I also believe that if he was moving any faster with me (like I have always been some kind of frustrated with) I would not be able to reflect enough and do the work I need to do with being vulnerable at all, or using feeling messages. He has been moving sooooo slow. I am no longer angry, hurt and frustrated in the same way,because I now have begun to see what my part is in it, although still not all that clear how, but the awareness that it is so much me is really there now. SCAREY but freeing and good 🙂

    Now, the work I have been doing is finally drawing this man into me closer and while I am happy to feel it and see it, there are some many things I don’t know about timing on. I have read the materials over and over, but I don’t know how to apply it appropriately and more so, the timing. We are not in relationship and yet I FEEL like he is more that a CD.

    I never call him, since Sept. never have. He initiates ALL texts for all this time. I have never had sex with him and while once we got close to starting that after a little too much wine, I asserted my boundaries, doing a very disconnected speech about if intentions other than friends are not stated then I don’t even want to be kissing or holding eachother for long periods of time on the couch. He has been very respectful of those boundaries. He took me out last Sunday and for the first itme HE paid and treated me like a girlfriend and texted me 2 days later thanking me and telling me how much he loved what we talked about. No calls all week, but then he called me to tell me he has been thinking about me and wanted to hear my voice. I know that he thinks of me. I JUST KNOW. It frustrates me that in all of this time he has not understood to call me and see how I’m doing. Up to recently we have been going without talking for two weeks in between, now it is down to one. He used to text me all the time, since I tiold him that I feel texting is not personal and he finally got it and agreed I barely receive those any more. I feel like I miss him when I don’t hear from him that much, I don’t feel that the time is right to express that to him. I analyze SO MUCH about timing of shared feeling and displaying my vulnerability, I know it is better in the moment but I don’t want to do it in the wrong moments or too soon. I am used to not sharing feelings and being vulnerable, especially with men I am interested in, because of the above mentioned.

    *If he is becoming more open and vulnerable with me, does that indicate that I am finally doing more right here with changing me?? Am I softening and becoming more warm and inviting? Do my newly found discoveries and beliefs about myself finally show on the outside.? Is my big sensitive womans heart finally showing it’s truth on the outside of me? Is he begining to see this movement in me?

    I am happy that he called and said all he said today. I am disapointed that he did not secure another shared face to face moment with me. I so look forward to having another wonderful day with him. I wanted to tell him,that last Sunday I felt safe and warm and happy with him, when he was talking about how wonderful the memories of that day are to him.

    I did tell him, that I felt really happy to hear from him and that I always enjoy talking with him. I wanted to tell him that I enjoyed his wisdom, but felt scared and that it would be too vulnerable ( a little regret now) but won’t beat myself up for it.

    I continue to CD which I am good at.Real intimacy with a man I am truly interested in, becoming better. I am becoming better for my practice with the ones who are not important to me. This man is special. I am scared he could be the man that stays. I am wanting to do intimacy and vulnerability on another level.

    I don’t even want to be his girlfriend. I want to be a wife. I am wanting him to move a little faster. I am wanting to be the me that I can be to draw him in to me and not keep him at an arms length with my old false truths.

    not too quickly, while I am still needing a little time and space to work on me and alow myself the permission to feel and express. I am an artist, that should be easy. 🙂 aahhhhhh….lol……

    He is a good man.
    He is not my past.
    He is not other men.
    He is strong (I need to focus on his strengths)
    He is different than me and that is not bad, JUST different.
    He is trying even though he has his own fears and his ARE VALID.
    He can be trusted OOOh (tough one)
    He can be trusted to lead us where we are going

    I still don’t know when it’s too much expression too fast, as it does not feel natural to me to be expressing in this way. It does however feel really good and freeing at times when I am aware I am doing it. ……and now I have come to the begining of my writing.

  424.  #425sweetmandm on April 10, 2011 at 6:54 pm

    Oh and H the one above, closed the converstion today with he wishes me a good week. Like, ok, I guess it is possible that I won’t be hearing from him for another week. I know he is not dating others, he is a friend of a close guy friend of mine and his wife (also a good friend of mine). He is busy and he knows that I am. I am frustrated, because I actually want to be hearing from this one more often. I don’t know if I can or should express it in some way.

    Remind me why I’m not supossed to call him at all yet? I am waiting for a commitment? CC says not to let them do all of the work…..
    It’s been so many months. I always expect them to do the chasing in every way.

    Is that ok?

    My old boyfriend from some time ago, always said, ‘you never call me!” He did not marry me. He too was a good man! Just not ready to be a husband. a lot younger than myself.

  425.  #426turquoise3 on April 10, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    I don’t know sweetmandm, since September is a really long time to not have initiated a phone call. I am not sure what advice to give, I haven’t really heard a situation like yours yet, where someone has a long term CD…. but I haven’t been on here that long. I hope some more experienced sirens can help you.

  426.  #427sweetmandm on April 10, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    @414 Dorothea-

    A friend of mine was not let into eharmoy’s site and a year and a half later she married a great man that she met outside of the internet dating world and she is VERY happy.

    Thought that might be encouraging! 😉


  427.  #428sweetmandm on April 10, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    turquoise-Thanks for the aknowledgement!

    Anyone else?! I told him that I did not want a boyfriend and what my boundaries are with guy friends. He respects the things I have said and so we haven’t even really kissed but the one time before I expressed my boundaries. He always comes close to it though. He now treats me more like a girlfriend since I am using these tools/resources. I know that the distance before it was because of me, but the intrest on his part was always still there. Mine too obviously. Now I am wanting more. Do I just keep using the tools in his presence and keep being me and that is good enough? The poor man has already met enough resistence and my being somewhat calculating and protective of myself. ?

  428.  #429Dorothea on April 10, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    i have great luck offline. better than i ever had online. i told my grandma about the eharmony thing and whenever i visit her and the eharmony commercials come on the tv, she yells at the tv “if you don’t think my dorothea is good enough for you, then get off my tv!”
    hehe thanks grandma.

  429.  #430sweetmandm on April 10, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    @ 428 LOL… That’s cute! Yay for grandmas who think we a the greatest beings on the planet!! 😉

  430.  #431Dorothea on April 10, 2011 at 7:21 pm

    hmmm, you won’t kiss him but you want to kiss him? maybe it’s just me, but a kiss doesn’t mean anything. it’s just a kiss. it feels good (usually and hopefully lol).
    it seems to me you’re so focused on the outcome (the type of relationship you want with him) that you’re overpolicing yourself in an attempt to control things and get the outcome you’re focused on. so withholding kisses becomes a game of sorts. and this could be a theme here for you.
    what do you think???

  431.  #432Dorothea on April 10, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    “Now I am wanting more. Do I just keep using the tools in his presence and keep being me and that is good enough?”

    yeah that’s exactly what you do. be sure and recheck in with yourself often about how you feel and who you “are” for the moment so that you can honor yourself and truly be yourself.

  432.  #433life_is_too_short_to... on April 10, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    I’m sorry to hear you in so much suffering.
    Those extreme negative emotions of wanting to escape your life are indicating that you have turned righteous anger inwards towards yourself, that should be directed at X. Also, he is counting on your feelings of shame and guilt so you will feel bad accepting money, even maybe turning it down completely. Accept it, under no circumstances turn it down. I would even ask for more. Use righteous anger to motivate you to stand up for what you need –right now– hit him where it hurts — his wallet. this is the only thing he understands right now, because he is too much of a self-centered jerk to understand anything else. Hold your head high, keep your wits about you. This guy is scum.


  433.  #434sweetmandm on April 10, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    Dorothea, I wouldn’t say that I have been witholding kisses. It’s that I first was a little cold and didn’t let him get that close, but he kept coming around, guess he though I was interesting. Then when he came back after that 2 months I stated my boundaries in just being friends. Now I know that I had really confused this man a number of times prior to doing Rori’s tools and learning about my intimacy issues. Yes, now I want to kiss him and he comes close but doesn’t complete it ever, I am thinking that it might still have somethng to do with me, beyond just what I have stated about being more than friends. Don’t know what to do about all of it now….

    Yes, I’m getting better at conquering my fear of inimacy and controlling the situation to keep safe, but I don’t know if some of that is still there. I just don’t know. He and I have not had a converstion of where we are headed, but I did not care and was not ready for my feelings until just when he came back after the two month spell. That is only a few weeks then. The way he is moving towards me I am begining to feel overwhelmed with things I have not allowed myself to feel.

  434.  #435life_is_too_short_to... on April 10, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    Thank you, SLV, I appreciate that.

    All is well.

    back to our regularly scheduled program….



  435.  #436sweetmandm on April 10, 2011 at 7:38 pm


    The real benefit to having the many days and spaces of silence in between, is that I can reflect and I am somewhat thankful for that time, often. To check in with my feelings and think about my newfound expression.


  436.  #437turquoise3 on April 10, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    Where is everyone tonight? Sleeping I guess… like I should be!

  437.  #438T-Girl on April 10, 2011 at 9:43 pm

    Yes, it is unusually quiet on here tonight. Goodnight everyone!

  438.  #439LD on April 10, 2011 at 9:54 pm



    Read the book Eat, Pray, Love if you liked the movie. The book goes into even more detail. I have the book sitting next to my bed. Bawled my eyes out when I read it. Felt that same connection to the character….

  439.  #440LD on April 10, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    I went through my phone tonight and deleted the numbers of any men I haven’t heard from in more than 4 weeks. I feel the need to clean house, both figuratively as with my phone and literally with my house….

  440.  #441kaitlyn on April 10, 2011 at 10:32 pm

    Days ago, a cute guy chatted me up in my lawyer’s office lobby. He asked for my number and hit me up today. He texted; not called. Already a bad sign, but I’m trying to be more open minded about the fact that people have no manners these days.

    Him: What are you doing right now?
    Me: Reading. And what about you?

    Then nothing. WTF???!!!!!

    Maybe I should’ve sounded more exciting by responding, “Just ramming two 12 inch dildos up my holes. It feels good to hear from you.”

  441.  #442kaitlyn on April 10, 2011 at 10:34 pm

    I give up. Seriously.

  442.  #443Emerson on April 10, 2011 at 10:38 pm

    Hello sirens…I had a very productive day. Some work, then fun, then work again. This eveneing I feel pretty good at the end of the day with me and myself (as luzydel says!)

    I came to a pretty profound realization today. I woke up this morning kind of in a funk. I was feeling worried and strange. But I was not sure why. I’ve had a few older guys on the online dating site express some real interest in me. They are about ten years older, very respectful, successful, educated, etc.

    They’ve been pretty persistent in complimenting me and trying to get/keep my attention with emails back and forth during the past couple of days. I woke up this morning thinking about these guys and felt annoyed, scared, annoyed, cornered, anxious, weird and almost panicked!

    All day I thought about it off and on and it was bothering me, why did I feel this way? I think I figured it out. They have one thing in common: they are all caucasion.

    I have not dated a lot of caucasion men (I am european but I have dated men of Latin decent and happen to have long relationships with more than one in the past. It’s what I’m “used to”…but I’m trying to be open to all races.

    When I was growing up, the white guys in my community and school never liked me. They liked the skinny mini’s, and I was not fat but curvy. Also, my parents were foreign so I somehow got along better with the Mexican crowd…LOL. Plus thoses guys liked me, whereas the caucasions (my race) rejected me and were even rude to me! A lot! Stupid snobs!

    I think these white guys are possibly triggering my rejection button..they are good looking, successful, educated…etc…just like the white guys I went to school with. I grew up in an affluent area.

    I know race can be a touchy subject, but this was kind of a big deal for me to realize this today. I think it might be something I need to work on!

  443.  #444Emerson on April 10, 2011 at 10:45 pm

    Kaitlyn 440 and 441 you are so funny! Thank you for making me laugh. Oh you should text him that if he ever contacts you again!! hahahahaha

    Soo true and a bit irritating. That is what happens to me alll theee timmme….stupid texts instead of an actual call.

    I get so annoyed.

  444.  #445Emerson on April 10, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    439 LD
    good for you deleting those numbers!! good riddance!! I did something similar…but I changed all the numbers to the contact name “DO NOT ANSWER’ so I don’t mistakenly pick up a call from one of the bozos!!

    Sorry sirens if I sound a bit saucy tonight…just venting. I love men, it’s just that silly men get on my nerves at times…..

  445.  #446Emerson on April 10, 2011 at 10:49 pm

    Kaitlyn we can’t give up though. I know you didn’t mean it literally.
    We just forge on and keep CDing until we meet a guy that actually knows how to dial a phone and talk in the little speaker!!! LOL…I know they still exist.

    Oh…I am still laughing from your proposed text reply…hahhaha

  446.  #447kaitlyn on April 10, 2011 at 10:52 pm

    I feel more annoyed that he (who initiated the convo) didn’t respond after I responded.

  447.  #448Emerson on April 10, 2011 at 10:59 pm

    Yep. I know what you mean. It’s a bit random. And rude of him.

  448.  #449Lucy on April 10, 2011 at 11:00 pm

    Lol Kaitlyn. We all ought to write a book “Sassy Answers to Stupid Texts”

  449.  #450kaitlyn on April 10, 2011 at 11:06 pm

    No. I really feel like giving up. You wouldn’t know it by looking at me, but the raw food, the gym, the size zero dress…it’s all for me because I’m the one who has to look at myself in the mirror. But I’ve been debating if life is worth it because my mistakes cost me someone I care about. Now Adam is wrapping up all his stuff to do (I imagine. No idea since I haven’t heard from him) because he’s going on tour for the summer. I feel so tempted to email or call him (chase. bad, i know) with all the ways I went wrong even before the Paris hooker gig. All because I felt he was out of my league. Funny, he used to always say I was out of his league. But explaining is chasing. And all I know is that no matter how much the rest of my life’s improved, I still cry and hate myself. It’d be fine with me if one night I accidently took too many pills.

  450.  #451Emerson on April 10, 2011 at 11:13 pm

    kaitlyn!! major (((hugs))) and much love to you!!
    Please please don’t be so hard on yourself.

    I remember your story. I know you regret your choice.
    But please forgive yourself!!!! I regret some things too, and at times…it really really hurts. I know it.
    But we are human, we make mistakes, we learn, and it will not always feel this bad. But I feel scared and worried for you talking about taking pills.

    Is there anyone you can lean on for some support right now?? (obviously the sirens are here for you…but anyone besides us)

    much love to you! You are worth it! you sound like a knockout on the outside and a sweet amazing woman on the inside!!

  451.  #452kaitlyn on April 10, 2011 at 11:21 pm

    Nope. Just you all. My friends are sick and tired of listening and feel that by now I should be over him. I’m actually banned from mentioning him. When I try to meet other guys, I get made fun of for trying to replace him. There is no replacement. I’m just trying to go on a few dates and be social. I’m not expecting some great love story right now. Just whatever. No expectations.

  452.  #453Emerson on April 10, 2011 at 11:34 pm

    Kaitlyn, thank you for sharing your feelings and being open. You are an amazing and beautiful lady, woman, female siren!! I give you a lot of credit for getting out there and dating.

    Sorry your friends are not supportive and my goodness nobody should be making fun of you for trying to get out there and meet new people!!!!

    For me, dating is HARD. I’ve always been in relationships, so I don’t really know what dating is!!!! I am learning and trying to understand how to do it. Sounds weird maybe, but I get really uncomfortable with the dating process in general. I’m used to instant boyfriend…haha just add water!!
    Anyway, I know what it’s like to be pining for someone. I’m trying to stop but admit I’m still a bit hung up on the “unavailable one”…..at times I really just wish I could be with him but ***sigh***….but no, I know he’s toxic.

  453.  #454Emerson on April 10, 2011 at 11:36 pm

    Kaitlyn you have us…your siren sisters. Be good to yourself. Reject what feels bad. Stick with what you know is right for you!!! I have faith that things will turn around.

  454.  #455Emerson on April 10, 2011 at 11:38 pm

    I like Rori’s take on not having “closure”…I don’t have the link handy but it’s one of the posts from not too long ago…I found it helpful.

    Much love to you.

  455.  #456kaitlyn on April 10, 2011 at 11:40 pm

    And when they ask me for dating advice, their response is, “Kaitlyn, you give the worst dating advice.” I”M TRYING. I”M SORRY, I JUST DONT KNOW. Then it’s “No, you don’t know, but you sure know how to ask me for advice about Adam.”

  456.  #457Lercomari on April 10, 2011 at 11:43 pm

    @Jacqueline 388,

    When he inevitably falls at my feet..I really love that. 🙂 lol . Thanks and I will stick around…thanks for making me feel so welcomed. It’s not easy for me to own my sexuality. I was raised in a very religious household where sex was viewed merely as something to wait until marriage for. Well I did that and my marriage didn’t work out. So I’m working on having a healthy viewpoint of sex. It’s something enjoyable and fun. And I respect my definition of sex, as a physical expression of passion between two people who really care about each other. I love my femininity and recognize myself as a sexual being. It still often unnerves me to talk about sex to to others, but here online and on this blog, I feel quite comfortable and open talking about it. 🙂
    I’ve been thinking about Techie all day…*sigh* Hurry up Friday! Did I mention he speaks French fluenty? *melts*

  457.  #458kaitlyn on April 10, 2011 at 11:43 pm

    454 Like, I’ve read Rori’s ‘no closure’ entries a million times. I completely agree with her. That’s what has helped me NOT contact Adam at all, not even to end it since evidently a whore like me doesn’t deserve him telling me it’s over.

  458.  #459Emerson on April 10, 2011 at 11:45 pm

    kaitlyn, that sounds hurtful. I would feel sad if someone talked to me like that 🙁

  459.  #460Emerson on April 10, 2011 at 11:46 pm

    You are not a whore. You are a siren!
    You deserve ONLY the best treatment from friends, men, people!!

  460.  #461kaitlyn on April 10, 2011 at 11:47 pm

    Does he need me calling to wish him well on his tour and tell him how proud I am of him? No, because it’d be secondary to the real reason for calling- my low self-esteem.

  461.  #462kaitlyn on April 10, 2011 at 11:49 pm

    459 Nope. A cheating woman is a whore. A real Siren would’ve just broken up with him then she’d be free to go off on the job for she’d be a single woman.

  462.  #463Emerson on April 10, 2011 at 11:49 pm

    I like what you said earlier, that explaining is another form of control.
    That was helpful to me, I’m glad you mentioned it.
    I am often tempted to call and ‘explain’ or ‘wish well’ but then I stop myself because I hear the sirens telling me noooo!!!
    See? You DO give good advice.

  463.  #464Emerson on April 10, 2011 at 11:51 pm

    461 I still say you are a siren and not a whore!!

    Sirens make mistakes, sirens learn from experiences, sirens are not perfect, but sirens forgive themselves too!!

  464.  #465Laughing Goddess on April 10, 2011 at 11:59 pm


    It breaks my heart to hear the way you talk about yourself. It feels horrible. I’m imagining that you would never allow someone else say those things to you, so why let your nasty voices say them?

    They are just thoughts you are having…they aren’t truths.

    The truth is you are good and worthy. I so wish you could see that.

    I see that you are practicing some of Rori’s tools, ie not contacting him, etc. But what about all the self love tools…that’s where the juice is. 🙂


  465.  #466Brenda on April 11, 2011 at 12:08 am


    Hi! Like! 🙂

  466.  #467kaitlyn on April 11, 2011 at 12:11 am

    He truly was THE ONE. I destroyed it. The more I got to know him, the more accomplishments of his I discovered. Dude is fricking brilliant. My low self-esteem got the best of me and I became critical twds him. I ruined it! This is a guy who dedicated his next published novel to me. It’s the most romantic thing a guy has ever done for me. Ever. (For Kaitlyn. If she decides to stick around.) I still have the pdf of the first 4 chapters. It’s beyond spellbound the way he writes.

    I bet my actions caused:

    That’s why he waited until 2pm to wish me Merry Christmas. That’s why his personal drama with his old rmate mattered more than me wanting my jacket back from their old house as Adam originally promised, only to slough the job off to another friend. That’s why picking up my xmas gift to him wasn’t as important as his career, his band, his family drama, his health. I still have no idea if he ever picked it up.

    I’ve never apologized for my actions. Just apologized heavily and repeatedly for accepting the Paris job albeit laced with telling him the list above making it his fault I didn’t feel secure in the relationship and that combined with long distance meant it’s predicted demise. He was so angry I was giving up on us.

    When I returned, he never returned my calls until finally when i asked him where I stand. I remember his taciturn “You tell me.”

  467.  #468Brenda on April 11, 2011 at 12:13 am


    Were you on the blog when Rosa’s Stop Sign tool was on the lead post for a new thread? I encourage you to apply it to these ripping, tearing, nasty voices that are eating you alive.

    When you hear negative thoughts and feelings like ones that tell you you’re a whore, How about picturing the stop sign, pause for 5 seconds, and replace it with a beautiful thought, “I am loveable and beautiful! I am worthy! I am accepted! I forgive you, Kaitlyn! I am all new. The past is the past, and today is a fresh opportunity for success and life and I am so glad I am alive! I honor me today!”

    What do you think/feel?

    Love, Brenda

  468.  #469Brenda on April 11, 2011 at 12:20 am


    RE: #449 – “It’d be fine with me if one night I accidently took too many pills.”

    I feel seriously concerned for you. How can we help you? Would it give you a sense of relief if you contacted him and explained? Maybe your peace of mind and wellbeing than not chasing at this point? I don’t know.

    I am glad you are venting here, and I just would like to know if there is anything I can do to help. I know the feeling of not wanting to live when losing the man who matters most.

    I want to take your pain, and I feel frustrated that I can’t. Can you give compassion to your weak parts? Please don’t hurt yourself. Please call a suicide hotline if you need to. I care, Kaitlyn.

  469.  #470snowqueen on April 11, 2011 at 12:21 am

    @260 sirenjen – I’m probably way behind and you’ve already had your date, but instead of being concerned that your having a child is a problem for him, how about thinking about whether he is going to be the kind of guy who is open to a woman with a child and be the kind of guy who you’d be comfortable to introduce to your child. If he’s not then discard and move on.

  470.  #471snowqueen on April 11, 2011 at 12:24 am


    I really enjoyed reading about your date with yourself – perhaps Rori could start a thread where we all post our dates with ourselves and what we learned about what we like and don’t like! I recently realised that I love classical music – I’d been choosing the classical station on my radio a lot and it suddenly struck me. I will never stop loving Patti Smith though – ‘if you wanna be a Rock n Roll Star …’ She is my idol. Cant’ really imagine Patti sitting around waiting for the phone to ring.

  471.  #472Brenda on April 11, 2011 at 12:25 am


    RE: #373 – “Sirens
    I wish i were dead this moment.
    I wish i had something with me that will help me now to take my life.
    I dont want to feel this hurt and humiliation anymore
    I really dont want to
    I feel life someone just spat on my face.

    I feel seriously concerned for you. How can we help you? Would it give you a sense of relief if you contacted him and explained? Maybe your peace of mind and wellbeing than not chasing at this point? I don’t know.

    I am glad you are venting here, and I just would like to know if there is anything I can do to help. I know the feeling of not wanting to live when losing the man who matters most.

    I want to take your pain, and I feel frustrated that I can’t. Can you give compassion to your weak parts? Please don’t hurt yourself. Please call a suicide hotline if you need to. I care, Meemee.

  472.  #473Laughing Goddess on April 11, 2011 at 12:27 am

    Kaitlyn: ” My low self-esteem got the best of me and I became critical twds him.”

    That same “voice” that you said was critical of him is now being critical of you.

    How would it feel to quiet that voice down?

    Are you familiar with the stranger exercise?

  473.  #474kaitlyn on April 11, 2011 at 12:28 am

    Rosa Park’s stop sign or whatever is really a dear crossing sign that just tells me yeah i’m new again. new again to be without my dream guy i lost. just me and my std and my soon to be fading looks.

  474.  #475kaitlyn on April 11, 2011 at 12:29 am

    what’s the stranger exercise? feels very existentialist. didn’t camus kill himself?

  475.  #476Laughing Goddess on April 11, 2011 at 12:30 am

    Brenda: hi!

  476.  #477kaitlyn on April 11, 2011 at 12:31 am

    470 Have you read Patti Smith’s book ‘Kids’? Epic.

  477.  #478kaitlyn on April 11, 2011 at 12:35 am


    “I feel seriously concerned for you. How can we help you? Would it give you a sense of relief if you contacted him and explained? Maybe your peace of mind and wellbeing than not chasing at this point? I don’t know.”

    No. 1) because my vibe is low and he will feel that. 2) he leaves for tour in 2 days. he has a zillion things to do. when he’s in that mode, he’s in his cave and doesn’t like being bothered. read john gray for more explanation on the cave.

  478.  #479kaitlyn on April 11, 2011 at 12:43 am


    “The truth is you are good and worthy. I so wish you could see that.”

    most people think i’m selfish. i just get by in life because they like my art and the favors i’m able to do for them.

  479.  #480Laughing Goddess on April 11, 2011 at 12:44 am

    The stranger exercise….I’m super sleepy right now and I keep trying to find a way to explain it and I feel stuck. Daria explains it really well. I’m rubbing the genie lamp…Daria Daria Daria

    Basically it’s a way of embracing and integrating the “ugly” side of ourselves.

    We envision that “dark” par of ourself. What is she like? What does she look like? What does she say?

    From what I’ve heard you say maybe your stranger is a whore. Maybe she doesn’t care about anyone or anything other than taking care of herself. Maybe she is untouchable and has disease.

    Then we give the stranger a rose and tell her that we love her. We won’t abandon her. We acknowledge her strength and power. We find something to love about her.

  480.  #481Laughing Goddess on April 11, 2011 at 12:46 am


    “most people think i’m selfish. i just get by in life because they like my art and the favors i’m able to do for them.”

    ya right. I don’t believe you…and I mean that in the nicest way. 🙂

    I trust my own judgement and I can tell that you have a huge heart.