If You Won’t Be His Girlfriend All Your Life – Do This

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Here’s a letter from Shelly – she’s in a classic “girlfriend trap” – and yet, it feels okay to me right now. I like how she describes the relationship, and the man – and I feel that the urgency inside herself is what Shelly needs to focus on – rather than on zeroing in on how to talk about it with HIM.

In other words, she has more time and options and room to move, and the relationship feels good enough as it is – so she can breathe and really explore all her feelings.  Perhaps she’ll come up with some “out-of-the-box” ideas for herself!

“Hi Rori, I was wondering if you are in a relationship and your man, he has never been married and he’s 50 yrs old I am 49 years old I have been his longest relationship. At the beginning we talked about marriage because I had been in a unhealthy marriage for 17 years. That said. I told him I still believe in marriage and he said that he would never marry because of divorce rates (I think its more but i do respect peoples feelings) I’ve excepted the fact that he doe not want to marry it definitely was not a deal breaker. But I would live with someone, him yes….

We get along fabulously, spiritually, laugh all the time, have serious discussions and love each other etc. sounds great i know, why would i want to bring up the possibility of one day if he could commit to living together, now that would be the deal breaker, at 49 I will not be someone’s girlfriend all my life.

How would I bring up that subject, its been 9 months never has he missed a day without calling me before work after work and our good night call. We see each other on all his days off, my daughter and I spent Christmas dinner with his family and the next day he spent Christmas with my family. I just think were ready for growing in another direction together and I don’t mean tomorrow but in the not so distant future, I guess I just need to know because I’m falling hard.

The more time we spend together, I love him more than the first day we told each other that we were in love with each other. Thank for your advice to all of us woman. Shelly”

Here’s my answer:

Shelly – What I know first and foremost is that if you have these strong feelings that you don’t want to be a girlfriend all your life, but – that’s what it feels like to you day after day – and if you don’t delve into your feelings and speak to him and clear the air directly…you will create tension and distance and disruption in the relationship.

Marriage is not “the” Happy Ever After for everyone. Sometimes living together, owning a home or a boat together, traveling together – is plenty.

Don’t let images of what other people want color your desires – feel how it feels to be with him, and what you’d need to make it the whole package for you.  9 months is a long time – but not so long that he’s dragging his feet here. If he says he’ll never marry – believe him. See how you feel about that. (Things could shift – but I don’t want you to put any of your eggs into that basket in the meantime.)

The main problem is the need to have a discussion about what your relationship IS – not what it ISN’T.

Yes, it isn’t marriage-bound at the moment – but how about you ask him simply what he sees?  Does he see you living in the same house?  Traveling together? Or does he just like things the way they are?  He lives where he lives, you live where you live, and you see each other often?

And – before you even get into the future – how about the NOW?  Is seeing a man exclusively only on his days off enough for you?  Do you long for touch and companionship on the rest of the days?  After 9 months –  seeing him 2 times a week, if that’s what this boils down to, perhaps simply isn’t enough for you. (It wouldn’t be for me…but it might be PERFECT for another woman, who loves having all that time to herself and then a devoted, loving boyfriend and sex twice a week.)

Clearly, if you live together, you see each other every day, and sleep every night together. Is your daughter in the house?  Is that a concern for him if you live together? Then that’s something you’ll want to explore.

That’s what you need to discover – and there’s no urgency about it. You are just beginning to heal after being married unhappily for 17 years. Don’t rush YOURSELF – and certainly not HIM.

What you need to feel your way through is the WHY of why you’re exclusively involved with him, if it’s not enough time spent with him for you.  If it’s just because you’re enjoying being with him, and no one else is interesting you much – that’s fine.  And if someone came along who asked you to the theater or to dinner – how would you feel about saying “yes” to that?

And – are you making yourself AVAILABLE for that?

The key to everything for you is in not feeling “urgent.”

You have some time, here.  And so does he.

What you want to do is to keep talking with him. Keep speaking your truth. “Sweetie, somethings bothering me, and I hate to even talk about it, because I feel so good with you…and it’s important to me that we’re just honest with each other and don’t let things get stuffed down…is now a good time to talk?”

If he says “Yes” – then go with…“Once you said you would never marry again, I’m not sure how you feel about living together…have your feelings changed at all about this? What exactly do you see for us down the road?”

Now stop and let him talk.

Next – “I’m asking because I realize I don’t want to be a girlfriend all the rest of my life – even though being your girlfriend feels so great, I’m concerned that after a while, I’ll start to feel insecure and want to feel more solid…I’m just a girl here, and sooner or later, I’ll want more. What do you think?”

Let him talk. You can always ask him…“I don’t want to be putting pressure on you…do you want me to date other men so that there’s less pressure as we go along?” — Basically this is the “No Girlfriend” speech – but with a lot more “air” and expressiveness and exploration in it – and allowing him to get involved in the discussion.

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Jacqueline on September 20, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Wow, Rori! synchronicity! I just spoke to Jonathon for my Friday interview and he made a big distinction between sharing a life – which is great for some, maybe me included, and “building” a life together. Amazing timing for this, and something that’s been boiling at the back of my mind, but didn’t congeal. Thanks for spelling it out in terms of what do I want – love it!


  2.  #2Daria on September 20, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    I feel so excited! i discovered somehting

    I had drawn the conclusion that my not reaching out (as per leaning back) was the reason i felt so isolated the past two years

    until this summer, when ( i – in my perception – contacted men somewhat, ) and my social life took off

    i just imagined myself attracting and receiving from the world

    and being one of those warpy black holes pulling in towards me everything i want

    including fun company

    and it W?ORked

    to get me in a great mood

    and now im getting contacted by people!


    my discovery was a glimmer

    that it wasnt my leaning back at all that had me isolated

    and just like ive been feeling taken care of my needs wihtout having had money this summer

    i CAN attract as much people that want to be around me as i need and want…

    it was some wall i had built up i belive…

    and isolating myself in the house instead of taking some steps i thought of like riding my bike


    doesnt make sense 110, but i got the glimmer now!

  3.  #3Daria on September 20, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    thank youuu!

  4.  #4Daria on September 20, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    i just worked out!!! yahoo and had a protein shake


    i am so much more enjoying my time alone of pulling in what i want with my galactic space time warping powers

  5.  #5Daria on September 20, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    this time, when i worked out, this one part that always feels so hot and tight, to do, and uncomfortable,

    i allowed myself to do what my body wanted to,

    which was making roars and animal growls…

    and then felt much! better!

    i think my body was working out on the inside with those sounds…

    then when it was round two, i didnt even feel as pressed and no animal noises.

    in the past, i would have felt horrified, ashamed, and humioliated and like something was wrong with me for even wanting to make those noises

    because i was judging them as unnatrractive!

    but now that ive been used to feelilng my emotions and letting my body express itself, it felt cool, FREAKIN INTRIGUING AND

    not at all unttractiver


  6.  #6Lucy on September 20, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    Oooh, I like this part: “If it’s just because you’re enjoying being with him, and no one else is interesting you much – that’s fine.”

    Hmm. That feels freeing.

  7.  #7Daria on September 20, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    i initiated this energetic day turn around by using a story method

    the story went, oh this girl is feeling really sad,…. [now i insert the ending i want] but all of a sudden she discovers her ability to attract everything she wants to her like warping time, and she starts to FEEl it and knows that its something she will always have access to!!

    guess what, stories come true, yum


  8.  #8Daria on September 20, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    i am now gettin flooded with endorphin blisss

  9.  #9Daria on September 20, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    i dont think youre ready for this jelly
    i dont think your ready for this jelly

  10.  #10Daria on September 20, 2010 at 6:46 pm

    my body is so effin amazing

    i mean just like my curves, and moving slowly in the mirror

    it looks fuc9ckin sick

    thank you God

  11.  #11Jennifer on September 20, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    school yard guy stood me up.
    Like are you fckin serious?
    Dude. If you were just gonna disqualify yourself by being a douche bag..why bother?
    What ever
    I feel annoyed.
    How do I feeling message the shit outta this so I can practice?

    How about.
    I feel annoyed. I thought you said you were going to text me to get together. I don’t want to be stood up. It feels bad, like being ignored.
    What do you think?

  12.  #12Daria on September 20, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    i have this voice that always second guesses me

    are you sure??

  13.  #13Symantha on September 20, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    Hi Jennifer,

    What about just telling him: I feel annoyed… and then wait for him to ask why? then you answer, I feel stupid waiting for you to text me to get together, and the waiting and not knowing makes me feel annoyed, what do you think?

    Don’t know but trying not to blame him and avoid the word think are the few premises we need to consider when expressing in feeling messages.

    Hope you are feeling better now,


  14.  #14Daria on September 20, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    this is what i said and i laughed at the end so the energy moved. excited to see how this plays out. i hope it sticks.

    oooh. change wont stick! kapow

    a part of my being already knows

    and that part of my being is willing to inform the rest of me now with compassion and kapow


    soimething just came up out my chest


    this technique rocks

    cant wait till more peopel hear about it

  15.  #15Jennifer on September 20, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    yeah…avoid the work think…cool.

  16.  #16Symantha on September 20, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    Hi Daria,

    have you ever tryed SRT? is with a pendulum


  17.  #17Daria on September 20, 2010 at 7:32 pm

    actaully, can wait, cuz im happy while i wait



    what do i mean when i say cant wait?

    i mean? i feel excited seeing this happen in the future ?

    i see a happy vision of sharing with people about ask and receive technique


  18.  #18Daria on September 20, 2010 at 7:32 pm

    Symantha – no, but i will check it out. right now online.

  19.  #19Symantha on September 20, 2010 at 7:35 pm

    Daria, how is it call the technique that you are using now?

  20.  #20Daria on September 20, 2010 at 7:35 pm

    Hey, im reading about it.

    well ive done some intense past life work let me tell you

    it was one of the most traumatically intense thing ever

    like, i had to be there in the scene where i was getting killed… and the negative beliefs were planted in my body since i was in trauma state my body was absorbing everything before death… that was the premise.

    um and i had to repeat the attackers words 3 times,

    the whole way thru, until it was all cleared.

    that ish was CRAZAY

    i felt whoa

    but… i think it did have a strong impact

    and i feel like i am a brave warrioress and have def proved myself to myself with that

  21.  #21Daria on September 20, 2010 at 7:45 pm

    Its called Ask and Receive by Sandy Rodomsky

  22.  #22Symantha on September 20, 2010 at 7:49 pm

    I’ve innitiated 4 years ago but stop practicing as I got deeply involved in my own relationship dramas, I feel embarrased now to admit that I get obssesed and is pretty much dificult to focus my attention in anything else tha the object of my addiction, the man in the relationship.

    Now Im just starting to gain the access to the divine knowledge to heal my mind, body and soul.

    I feel so excited, also learning the emotion code from Brad Nelson.

    I feel curious about FTP, need to check that one.

  23.  #23Symantha on September 20, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    sorry, EFT

  24.  #24Daria on September 20, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    i just worked out again!

    wow i think my hypnosis session is really working

  25.  #25Lizzie on September 20, 2010 at 9:23 pm

    giggle me….Young Thing is all excited about my answers on eH – I wonder how long it will take for him to ask me for a date – freak… he is only 40… shriek!

    I must go to bed…

    Jennifer – I can only be in my head – the guy is a complete idiot!!! sigh. It has happened to me as well….I felt awful and such a colossal waste of time. big hugs to you – it really is shitty.

  26.  #26Simply Shannon on September 20, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    Jennifer: I’d probably go with leaning back and see if he makes contact. Then I’d go with…

    I feel surprised hearing from you. I feel confused. Were you going to text me about getting together the other day? Cuz right now I feel mad and stood up based on our last convo. I don’t want to feel that way. What do you think?

    I dunno. A baby step message from this might be I don’t have plans until the boy sets plans. None of this “he’ll text me with info the night of a date” business, which I would be feeling anxious and uncertain about. Ya know? My time is wide open for other things until a boy says when and where.

  27.  #27Carol on September 21, 2010 at 3:11 am

    Hi Rori ,
    i wonder if you can give me any insight into my situation!
    I have been chatting to a man from dating site for a couple of months now. I felt an istant attraction to him. He gave me his mobile number and asked me to text him. which i did , we had maybe 3/4 weeks just texting and chatting on the phone. I have been studying your siren and relationship e-book. I had felt really upset one day and used a ‘feeling’ message to him, he rang me imediately to cheer me up , and had also text me later the same evening to ask if i felt better. That made a big impression on me!
    he went away on holiday for 2 weeks , and we hadnt met in person before then. But as soon as he was back home, he text and rang me to arrange to meet up, which we did within a week of him coming home. this was last friday. Ifelt we really got on, hes so funny and talkative, and a total gent. He rang me within 5 minutes of us parting. and has text on the sunday, but iv heard nothing since. he had asked me if anything had put me off , and i just smiled and softly said no, he had leaned forward and given me a big warm smile and kiss.
    I’m trying to fight the urge to text him ! its really hard to resist as i really like him!
    I just felt this amazing connection with him , even when we just spoke on the phone , and wonder if he is maybe feeling the same ??
    and how do i proceed with him ?
    do nothing ,? i know ! but thats so hard !


  28.  #28Linda on September 21, 2010 at 6:16 am

    This post is a great a wonderful reminder for us to stay on MY bridge. Staying in touch with my feelings and keeping things unstuffed, uncluttered and able to move forward at my own comfort and peace level is becoming easier for me. (this is great new ground and a new mindset for me).

    I had a co-worker/friend (?) tell me yesterday that I NEEDED THERAPY. I felt defensive, feel judged and angry at her. I thought about it a lot and thought that her remarks were based on… her bridge and goals and lifestyle. I have felt unhealthy pressure from her to let her line my life up to suit her. I dont think she does this on purpose but none the less she does it.

    I realized this morning that my bridge, goals, insecuritys, feelings.. urgencies are MINE. Just like Shelly from this post. One of us here could look into her situation and get triggered and feel compelled to… warn her she is in a dead end relationship etc etc with a well meaning motive.

    This post helps remind me I have “time” and to throughly sift thru my feelings so I can get where I want to be.

    Thanks Rori… for not judging Shelly, or telling her she was doing it wrong. It is a loving and constructive way to encourage us all to deal with ourselves.


  29.  #29lm on September 21, 2010 at 8:56 am

    yeah, getting married is not really my happy-ever-after, it’s having a place together and children and being able to travel and explore together. if he wants to buy me a ring and then throw a party, i’m down with that. 🙂

  30.  #30Dorothea on September 21, 2010 at 10:18 am

    Getting married is my happily ever after. it has significance to me. it also makes me feel more obligated to commit to my choice, which someone like me, who has second thoughts about everything from the food she ordered to the shoes she put on in the morning, really needs to stay committed to anything. This is why I am going to a GRE class to study, rather than take care of it on my own, and why i am moving to a job that has me on more of a leash.

    i am so independent and free that it is holding me back in some ways

    i can’t wait to be married. i am looking forward to it mucho.

  31.  #31Dorothea on September 21, 2010 at 10:20 am

    when i thnk of marriage i feel safe. i feel less threatened. i feel anxiety and fear imagining traveling the world with a man i am not married to. i fear he will desire and follow through with chasing foreign tail. i have this idea that if we are married, i have nothing to worry about. he can look and be attracted, and it will be an asset to our strong marriage and sex life, not a threat to our imaginary relationship

  32.  #32life_is_too_short_to... on September 21, 2010 at 10:37 am

    It really takes some practice and skill to get those feeling messages not to sound like they are blaming.
    I tend to automatically start to say, “when you do this, I feel like this” which is actually another technique, but it still sounds like blaming.


  33.  #33tinque on September 21, 2010 at 10:55 am

    life-is-too-short – Take out the first part, and you have it. “I feel…I don’t want to feel like this. It feels bad feeling like this.”
    You can add a, what do you think? or something I prefer, can you help?

  34.  #34Brenda on September 21, 2010 at 11:04 am

    Guess what? One of the Sirens who posts here sometimes, who goes by a different pen name is Mary, and she wrote a beautiful guide,

    A Woman’s Guide to Creating a Spirit-Led Business!

    You can download it for free from…


  35.  #35Brenda on September 21, 2010 at 11:43 am

    All the Sirens and Heroes are busy working today…me taking a break. How do I feel today? I feel happy, hopeful, excited, productive, healthy, and content.

  36.  #36Brenda on September 21, 2010 at 11:45 am

    It’s still morning in California. Good morning, California girls (and boys)! Good afternoon Wednesday, Aussie ladies! Good evening, Europeans! Get a life, Brenda! 🙂

  37.  #37Jason Miller on September 21, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    As I guy, I was initially triggered by this post and I emailed Erika about it since I didn’t want to barge in and potentially trigger all of you without due consideration. I definitely learned something in the exchange with Erika and I’m posting it here:

    I just think that it’s valuable to separate out a woman’s need for commitment versus her need for actual marriage. I’m guessing this 50 year old guy is concerned about the legal, financial, and social ramifications of divorce more than just a monogamous, living together relationship. I’m betting he can commit to her, but he has issues around committing his resources to her, which is understandable. I’m hoping acquiring his resources is not her motivation to marry him.

    This “I’m not going to be a girlfriend forever.” is a no-win ultimatum if you’re already in a committed relationship. I don’t know what motivates it. Is it social pressure from her peers? Is it just being able to say you have made the ultimate commitment? To me, it’s not something you can sugar coat as Rori implies. Threatening to date other people is not “taking the pressure off.” It’s putting more pressure on! This couple is 49 and 50, not 29 and 30 years old. They should be clear on what’s really important to them and not feel compromised if they are going to stay together, of course. But they shouldn’t break up based on the failure to sign the legal agreement of marriage either. Unless, of course, she really wants his resources. That’s where I got triggered. I want to know what the real motivation is, I guess.

    If they are making it permanent, it’s ‘our’ resources. Look at the fears

    Ah, I see it now. I think that’s why I’m open to marriage no matter how successful I get. It’s because I plan to choose a woman who’s on board with my mission in life and so we will be perfect partners and so I’m really excited about that. So this guy is not getting that aspect of it.

    So, what if the woman framed her desire to merge with his mission in life in those terms? I wonder if he’d see it differently…

    I see the masculinity gap in this scenario…

    I see room for both sides to come together on this. I wonder if the man in this scenario has a solid mission or purpose in his life or not. If he does, then he might be afraid getting married might compromise it. If he does not have a mission, then it’s likely he’s concerned about preserving his station in life and he views marriage/divorce as a real threat. I define having a life purpose or mission as the quintessential expression of masculine energy. It’s the idea of “staying on course” no matter what happens.

    So I see two ways for the girlfriend in this case to empathize and address his fears:

    1. Determine where and how he feels threatened by marriage/divorce and reassure him that she won’t let that happen wherever possible.
    2. Emphasize that in wanting a permanent relationship with him, that means committing to joining forces in all aspects of their lives. It’s not about “acquiring and keeping resources” as a result of marriage and inevitable divorce. It’s about her getting on board with him and vice versa no matter what happens in the future.

    If he’s 50 and never married, odds are he looks at the idea of marriage logically in his mind based on what he’s seen other people suffer through. He’s decided marriage=divorce and divorce=suffering. That belief needs to be addressed. While marriage is something his girlfriend has an emotional desire for, he actually has an emotional desire AGAINST getting married! Empathy becomes critical with this level of emotional opposition in order to find out where the common ground lies. So they need to explore why they feel so strongly and then share all that while giving space for it.

    Let me know what you think.

  38.  #38Rori Raye on September 21, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Carol – Brava! You MET a good man –that’s HUGE! Now – you don’t have to do ANYTHING to KEEP him – this is all about practice. Please keep Circular Dating. Love, Rori

  39.  #39Daria on September 21, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    Oba herself was a queen and a monarch. She was a warrior queen at that. Where she ruled, she would defend her kingdom as well as conquer new territories. She had learned the art of forging bronze, and battle from her brother Ogun. Ogun never taught her the secret of iron though. Oba Nani was very benevolent, strong and resourceful. She devised methods for her people to process grains faster than anyone else, and this gave her kingdoms and her fifes economic prosperity comparable, if not exceeding that of her neighbors.
    In another kingdom known as Oyo, a ruler by the name of Dada Bayani was ousted. The people felt him (or her) unfit to be a ruler. For those who view Dada as a female, the odu Obe bara marks the transition, and beginning of male dominated monarchy that would apply to the rest of the world for in this odu, the sole purpose of Dada’s remove was because she was a female. Dada, not yet willing relinquish all of her power seated her younger brother Shango onto the throne where she would be able to rule behind the scenes.
    But Shango eventually came of age, an as a good king must, he needed to take a wife for himself to support him as he ruled his kingdom and future empire. Here, we begin to see the tactical prowess of the fourth Alaafin of Oyo. A marriage out of love was an uncommon luxury for that era, especially for a king. Shango, when deciding who to court, chose Oba, a ruler and warrior queen who had the potential to be either an essential ally or future foe. He knew that by marrying her it would not only instantly increase the scope of the kingdom and insure peace during his reign, after what happened to his sister, he knew that he would have the lion’s share of control over not only Oyo, but the lands that would become his as part of his marriage. And thus the kingdom of Oyo began to become an empire.
    When marriages are arranged, we expect love to come later, with time. Naturally, Oba fell madly in love and became a devoted wife to her husband Shango. And Shango loved her. But he never stopped loving dance, nor the attention of women as he would woo crowds with his talents and feats of magic. And so, his charisma eventually attracted Oshun to him. Being married, he could not marry again, but he made time for her often, lavishing her with gifts and keeping her close by. Oba knew of Shango’s infidelity but knew it was not her place to speak out against her husband. In fact, with time her and Oshun began to interact and even become very close friends. They would console each other when Shango sought after other interests. Oshun would teach Oba her craft as a witch, secrets of heaven and they both grew together to become very powerful.
    Oba’s attitude to her husband however was beginning to hinder her life. While Oshun did as she please and even fought with Shango when she felt slighted, Oba would only look for more ways to appease him, and the warrior queen, with time became even more submissive not realizing that it was the fire in her soul that Shango loved most about her. And that was beginning to fade.
    Olofi had eventually decided that the orisha were each worthy of worship by humans and should be the heads of their own cults and have their own spiritual children. Until then, Orunmila and Osain were performing all rites for the orisha and doing the same thing for each one. Olofi declared that each orisha would from that day forward have their own osun eleri and be responsible for their spiritual children on earth. Each of the orisha heeded the call and arrived at Olofi’s palace at the appointed time so that they could kneel before Him and receive osun eleri. All of them that is except for Oba who lost track of time because of her constant investigations into the life and whereabouts of Shango. When she remembered, she ran to Olofi’s palace and knelt down but it was too late. He had no more to give her and told her to rise and leave, that her foolishness had caused this to occur. She went home and cried to Oshun, telling her about all of her sadness and despair. Oshun comforted Oba and promised to assist her. Oshun told Oba that she would give birth to her children on earth for her. And so, all children of Oba were born of Oshun.
    With time, Oshuns relationship with Shango also grew weary. He became furious with her one day when he returned from a long trip only to find the people of Oyo praising Oshun for having vanquished a leopard that was killing its citizens. Shango could not stand for his own woman to have taken the title of kunlempe (killer of leopards) from him. They argued to no end. Oshun settled the matter by setting Shango’s house on fire. It is unclear as to how far they reconciled after that, but sure enough, Oya was soon to come into the picture.
    One day while traveling through the hills he met with a woman of strong character who seemed to be challenging him though dance. Shango amazed at this woman’s gall, he too began to show off and soon, they were dancing very close. Their challenge might as well have been a love poem for Shango was enthralled and demanded to have her. Oya did not object.
    It did not take long for everyone to notice that Shango loved Oya more than he had ever love Oshun or Oba. Oba thought that Oya might reveal to her the secret for keeping Shango so happy. Oya was not willing to relinquish her position as Shangos favorite, but she did not want to be overt about it either. Instead, she decided to conjure a plan that was sure to push Oba, the legitimate wife of Shango further away than ever. Oba still enjoyed the privileges of being Shango’s true wife and Oya wanted to see how she would change that.
    Always wearing a head wrap, she told Oba that the secret to Shango’s heart was in making a special stew made from her own ear. “That is why I wear this wrap” Oya said, “so no one will see my scars”. Oba, desperate to make Shango love her made amala stew for Shango with one culinary variation, she severed her ear and added it to the meal. She served it to Shango who then asked what was it that floated in his bowl. When Oba told him that it was her ear, so that he would love her again, he flew into a rage, throwing the amala against the wall. He made it very clear to Oba that she would forever hold the technical position of ‘wife’ in his kingdom, but never again would she feel even a morsel of his affection.

  40.  #40Rori Raye on September 21, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    Jason – I’m huge on pre-nups. So – no resources to be tapped, all worked out in advance. And guess what? It doesn’t HELP!!! In my experience – that’s just not the issue. Love, Rori

  41.  #41Jacqueline on September 21, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    Hiya, everyone! Jason that is very interesting and I think you said you’d never married here or on your site? I am wondering if that dialogue you wrote was for real for you or just pretend? And what it would be like to be never married and looking at marriage – if it would feel scary etc.? I am glad I had that one marriage cuz one guy actually told me at my age if I had never been married “they’d” think something was wrong with me. Also, Jonathon talked a LOT about why there is this on line dating gap in men in their 40’s yesterday, it really made sense to me and was like he’d already put into words something I’d felt but hadn’t bothered to address since I eventually found one. It’s useful and interesting.

    I feel grateful for the growth I find here!


  42.  #42Jacqueline on September 21, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    @ Dorothea – hi! you get some sleep? I hope so! pulling two all nighters is unimaginable once you get to be my age. Grin….I feel proud of you for your recognition of your needs.

    @ all…. I thought for most of my 20’s I kept a boyfriend around so I’d have a constraint, or kind of a box around me?> because without the world of infinite choices made me dizzy!!! and probably at the time although I didn’t know it – scared. Well, I felt it a little even argued about it in my head – you know people have MORE trouble choosing when you give em 36 choices than when they have 5? and they have less satisfaction with their choice?

    Wow, people are fascinating…

  43.  #43roberta on September 21, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    hey i have a problem and i hope you can help me..
    There is this giy.. he asked me out but i said no.. because lots of thing happend and i wasnt able for it. but i realy liked him..but i was thinkin about it for a while and i wanted to go out with him so i told him but he said no he.. he said that he never meet a girl liek this and that i am fucken unreal..i didnt know why he said no so i asked my friends hu knew him and tehy told me that he has a girlfriend..:( but i stil realy like him..and i know that he like me to because when i am with him..they way he looks at me and the way he talks to me its diffrent.. at the start when i found out that he has a girlfirnd we had lots of fights and he told me that he dosent wane know me and that he hates me and stuff like that..but after a while we where talking and everythig is fine like he acts like he didnt say anything liek its fine between us.. i am so confused wil you tell me what to do because i realy love him i never felt somthing like that to a boy..thenks.:)

  44.  #44Nikita on September 21, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    I’m with Rori on this!!!!! I agree wholeheartedly to pre-nups……..My gut feeling when a man can’t hide behind, “you just want my stuff”…….fear of abandonment is playing in the background…..

  45.  #45Daria on September 21, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    Obba Nani is the orisha of the home and marriage. Obba was the first wife of Chango who he loved dearly and made queen of his kingdom. Obba tended to Chango’s castle and everything that the king requested. She was truly a wife and Olofi made them the first couple to be married and to be called man and wife. Obba is a beautiful woman and she would walk the kingdom and castle making sure all is in order. She taught the kingdom of Chango and the other orishas how to read and write. She was very patient and had the gift to teach. Obba also traveled the world with Yemaya after her separation from Chango to teach humankind. Obba also taught the orishas how to sway their swords, as she is a strong and fierce warrior. Oya her sister was one of them who she taught. They were very close before the betrayal.

    Obba is a fair woman and very elegant. Her color is pink and burgundy with touches of red. Obba loves everything that is flowery and that represents the home. She was an excellent cook. In her warrior aspect, she can go head to head with any orisha, as she knows how to fight. People usually see her as a soft and fragile flower, but when she is provoked she can easily bring justice and slice you in half. When at war she is the sound of loud bombs that blast through the air. In her ceremonial coronations, firecrackers are used to call upon the orisha to show her warrior side. Obba is a queen and mother that protects her people with grace and beauty.

    Obba lived a warm and joyful life with her husband Chango until her sister Oya betrayed her. From there she went to the woods where her waters run. Her brother in law Ogun made her an anvil made out of wood as a wedding gift when she married Chango. This anvil is one of the most important implements that is used for Obba alongside with other implements. Obba has one ear due to the betrayal of her sister. Obba loves the finest things in life. She loves all types of jewelry and wines. It is said that she gave some of her riches and jewels to her younger sister Oshun when Oshun did not have much. Obba keeps a small elegant treasure box in which she keeps all of her riches and jewels.

    Pataki of Obba Nani

    One day Obba was tending the castle of Chango. She was cleaning and organizing everything in the castle. Chango was out doing his duties as king of his town. Her sister Ochun was in the castle helping her tend to the kitchen when Obba realized that she forgot to pick something up at the market. She told her younger sister Ochun that she would be right back and hasted to the market.

    When Obba reached the market, she began to pick up the items that she missed on her previous trip there. In the marketplace, she noticed her other sister Oya and she walked over to her. They greeted politely and started to shop around together. Obba knew that her husband Chango had a fling with her sister but since she was his faithful wife and knew the actions of the king Chango, she never approached him about the situations. However, Obba would always notice that when Chango spoke about Oya his demeanor would change. Obba approached Oya and told her that she knew Oya was with Chango. She just did not understand how when Oya’s name was mentioned, Chango would light up in a way and how Ogun was so faithful and infatuated with her. Therefore, she asked her sister what was the secret on making these men fall head for her and only think of her only. Oya smirked and looked at her sister with a jealous face as she Oya was in love with Chango and was jealous that her sister Obba was with the great king.

    Oya proceeded to tell Obba a secret that she has kept for years that no one knew. Obba’s face lit up, as she wanted to hear it. She thought that maybe it can work on Chango. Oya told Obba that she had to cook Chango’s favorite food, the amala ila (cornmeal with okra). Oya told her that this particular amala she had to add a special ingredient to it. Obba wanted to know and Oya hesitated to tell her. Obba pleaded with Oya to tell her the secret and Oya told her that what she needed to do was cook the amala and cut off her left ear and place it in the food. Obba put a horrifying face and asked Oya if she was serious. Oya told her that she was and if she wanted Chango to look at her and only her that she needed to do this. Oya started to fill Obba’s head with more lies and told her that once she cut her ear off to mix it in the amala. She said that once her ear hit the bottom of the stomach of Chango, that he would forever be in love and he would not have the heart or stomach to look at another woman. Obba was satisfied and ran home to prepare Chango’s favorite food.

    Obba got home and started to pull out the pots and pans to start to cook with such haste. Ochun was wondering why she was acting weird. Obba told Ochun to not to worry to go outside and mingle in the kingdom. Ochun left Obba and started to cook.

    Once the amala was boiling up, she added all the ingredients she always added to make the food tasty for her king who was on the way home. It was time to add the last ingredient that Oya told her to add. She grabbed a knife and she was hesitant on doing this, but she kept hearing Oya’s words in her head saying that after this Chango would only have eyes for her. With a great sweep of her hand, Obba’s ear was cut and it fell right on the table. Obba rushed and got something to clean the blood off her shoulders. She then placed her cut off ear inside the amala and stirred it praying that what she did would take effect.

    Ochun was in the middle of the town when she saw Oya walking towards her. She stopped Oya and asked her how she was doing. Oya turned and told Ochun that she was good that she was coming to see if Obba did what she told her. Ochun baffled asked Oya what was it that Obba was going to do. Oya told Ochun that she told Obba to cut her ear and feed it to Chango in his amala. At this time, Chango and his men are galloping through the town towards the castle. Oshun runs towards the castle to stop Obba. Chango enters his castle and calls out for his loving wife as he always did. When Chango saw Obba, he saw something strange about her. He noticed that she was wearing a head wrap in which she does not because he loved how her hair was long and silky. The great king paid no attention and gave his wife a hug and a kiss. Chango sat down at his table to see that his wife Obba has prepared him his favorite amala. In this moment Ochun runs in, salutes Chango and of course, Chango’s eyes looked at Ochun very seductively. She grabs her sister very softly and rushes her to the kitchen. Ochun asks Obba what she has done. Obba told her nothing and proceeded to smile as her mind was in the amala and Chango’s love. Ochun noticed the spot of blood where Obba’s ear was and asked her sister why she cut her ear.

    Oya walks into the castle and salutes Chango. Immediately Chango salutes her back and proceeds to pick up his spoon to eat his amala. Oya stops the great king and asks how his day was. Chango, very hungry but not to be rude answers Oya. Oya tells Chango that if he noticed anything weird within the castle. He responded no and tried again to reach for his spoon. Oya asked Chango if he noticed anything weird about his lovely wife Obba. Chango looked at Oya and said the only thing weird is that she is wearing a head wrap but usually that is something that woman do when they are tending to their hair. Oya smiled and told him that she over heard Obba talking and that Obba was going to cut off her ear and place it in the amala. Chango asked why and Oya told her it was to trap him so he would not see anyone else. Chango said that Oya was mistaken on what she heard. Obba walks out to find her sister Oya conversing with Chango and she thought nothing of it. Chango tells Obba that Oya had some weird story of her cutting her ear and feeding it to him. Obba stayed quiet looking at Oya with a face as in why would she do that. In that moment, Chango dips his spoon in his amala and the first thing that he brings up on his spoon is Obba’s ear. Chango jumps up out of his seat and asks Obba for an explanation. Obba stays quiet and for her staying quiet, Chango grew very angry. He walked over to her and ripped her head wrap off. When he did this, he noticed that Obba had a nub where her ear is suppose to be. Blood still dripping from the cut, he yells at Obba asking her why. However, before Obba could respond, Chango grabbed her and walked her towards the door. He opened the door and told him that no wife of his could have any defects. With that, he told her to leave his kingdom and to never return. That was the end of their marriage Chango said.

    Obba ran out of her former house and kingdom. She ran and ran until she reached a stone that was near a cave. There Obba began to cry and cry. She wondered why her sister Oya would betray her like that and why Chango would not listen to her and just throw her out. The tears that fell from her eyes created a lake that lead into a river. At that moment, Olofi came down and saw the dismay that Obba was in. He told her that he knew what happened to her and why did she do that. Obba, upset asked Olofi to please send her to a place that no one would look at her. Olofi asked Obba if she did indeed want to do that. Obba replied yes. Olofi remembered that he needed someone to dig the holes for the bodies of his creations. Obba immediately took the position before Olofi could continue. Obba was sent to a place that was very solitude. She noticed that she was approaching Oya’s house and she questioned in her mind what was she doing there. Nevertheless, she never did question the great Olofi. It was inside Olofi’s garden where Obba would work. She was then assigned to open the graves of the cemetery.

    Ochun came running to see where Obba was at and when she ran through the forest she saw the great Olofi. She asked him what had happened to Obba and Olofi told Ochun that she has now been moved to ile iku (cemetery). Ochun ran to the cemetery and saw her sister opening the holes for the arrivals of the new corpse of man. From that day Obba has not seen Chango and vice versa but there’s not a day that goes by where Obba and Chango think about each other.

    Obba’s feast day is November 25th. Her number is 9 or 8 in some houses of worship. She is the legitimate wife of Chango. She does not like infidelity as in her presence that is not allowed. Obba is received when one is married and has lived longevity with their spouse and they have made a concrete marriage. It is said that if you receive her when you are single, then it will be hard for you to have a relationship because Obba does not want you to be hurt. That is true for some people. I believe that Obba like any other orisha will not make you go through anything hard such as a relationship. If she sees your spouse, doing you wrong or cheating on you she will make that spouse leave within a hurry. She reaffirms any relationship. Obba loves all the finest things in life and she contains a golden key that she and her sister Ochun change on a regular basis. This key opens all the treasures in the world. Her weapon is a sword or a dagger in which she knows how to use it with great speed. Daggers are used in her sacrificial ceremonies. Obba sacrificial animals are female goats and in some houses male goats, hens, pigeons and guinea hens. Her animals should be clean and smelling good. It can be either white or a reddish color. In the house of a follower of Obba, she is nowhere or should be nowhere near Oya. She may live wet or dry depending on the house that she is given from. She loves wines, champagnes, fine sweets and cakes. Obba is done Oshun oro Obba in which her children are initiated through Ochun’s mystery. Not a lot of people know the fundamental secrets on initiating her directly but I heard it could still be done. When Obba makes her presence at a festival, she dances with one ear covered swaying her dagger. Her children are very meticulous and very delicate. You must know how to talk and act with them. They like fine arts and dining.

    Family of Ochun

    Oba Molo Chun

    This saint is the young sister of Obba on her side. She lives in the river and she is in charge of bringing happiness to the home and to the marriage. Her bead is a bone color with coral. She also takes an osun with implements of Obba made of gold.

  46.  #46Mercedes on September 21, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    Jason: “He’s decided marriage=divorce and divorce=suffering.”

    I’m curious why this would be the conclusion you draw. There are so many people who don’t want to get married (J and I to name just two…) and I don’t know that it has anything to do with “suffering” or divorce for most of those people (it certainly isn’t about that for us…).

    Maybe he just can’t think of a good reason why he SHOULD get married. That’s us. We are happy…we don’t want kids…we each have our own finances…neither of us needs the other to provide health insurance, etc…we are already committed…we are already planning to spend the rest of our lives together…we are bonded in a way most couples aren’t…we see nothing about our lives together we want changed…he’s not religious and I can’t get married in my church without an annulment (something I don’t want to do)…we both feel our union is blessed without a church anyway…

    So…what’s a good reason? A party? Presents? Ummm….a committment? No…we have that. What then?

    It’s not always about divorce and/or suffering and it’s very possible this man wants what J and I have rather than marriage. I’m curious if you think maybe you were projecting a little in your analysis of him? What do you think?

    Much Love,

  47.  #47Daria on September 21, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    i feel compelled to apologize for posting such long stories. i feel soo enthralled and moved by them ive been crying and so i want them here so i can read them . i dont want to apologize for this and i feel really mad

  48.  #48Jason Miller on September 21, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    40: Rori Raye

    Thanks for the clarification. No doubt my reaction was a product of my background and the nature of my parents’ relationship. So I went straight to the resource issue. And if pre-nups don’t resolve it, then the issues really are outside of my personal experience.

    41: Jacqueline

    I’ve never been married, but I’ve had two live-in multi-year relationships. So when those ended, they were like divorces at least emotionally. We didn’t get married mostly because we wanted to “try it out” first. The issues became overwhelming once we were living together in both cases. Commitment has not been the issue with me so much as not choosing well.

    I don’t think we GenXers have much of an issue around hitting 40 and never being married. There are just too many of us out there to count, both men and women.

    What is this online dating gap of men in their 40’s Jonathon was talking about? Are there fewer of them online in general?

  49.  #49Jason Miller on September 21, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    45: Mercedes

    I might have been projecting since I got triggered initially, but she did say this in the beginning:

    “he said that he would never marry because of divorce rates”

    From that I concluded that he was afraid of the aftermath of divorce, which he saw as a likely outcome. Of course, I could be wrong about that.

    You said:
    “It’s not always about divorce and/or suffering and it’s very possible this man wants what J and I have rather than marriage.”

    Maybe so, but I’m curious why he WOULD want that over marriage? And conversely, why she WOULDN’T want that over marriage?

    Help me out here, because I’m really trying to get down to the motivation underneath “not wanting to be a girlfriend forever.” It’s really important to me that I get that.

  50.  #50Jacqueline on September 21, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Hi, Mercedes!!! I have really missed you and your perspective lately!

    Jason – I’m doing a two part interview with him on his stuff Fri/Mon….but will email you this part when I get it transcribed. LOL…he thought I was recording the call and really I was scribbling as fast as I could, then I had to jump off and write an EFT article, so I should write it out today…whew! but maybe I’ll still be able to read my writing tomorrow. It’s not a quick answer – going to be a paragraph or two, or I’d just write it here – not putting you off!

    a blog is hard work, who knew? Well, I didn’t.

    Thanks for asking and you know some of what you tell me gets incorporated into my conversations now with men,and even some of it that’s been there all along, like the why does everyone ask me if I’m divorces asap? that the guy answered….sounds different to me, too…. so thanks for that too.

    I get the emotionally no different than a divorce, after my divorce I’ve lived with one guy for 7 years, and was with another for 9 – and emotionally it’s maybe even more devestating? I mean you can get all worked up about your STUFF – couch, etc. and fight so much on that, you might sail right over the feeling part of it – but you can’t do that in a breakup….your stuff then is all emotional and you’ve got to deal with it!

    All we really have in this world is our word, huh? Even a pre-nup can be beaten….I read they rarely stand up in court but that would be an Erika the lawyer question for sure.

    off for now, everyone have a great day!


  51.  #51Mercedes on September 21, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    Jason: I’m not sure I can help because unless there are children involved (to offer a family name to) or financial reasons or religious reasons…I don’t see the benefit of marriage. I’m also not the right person to ask because I DO want to be a girlfriend forever…

    As far as his comment about divorce rates, I saw that too but didn’t apply it to suffering necessarily…could be but I just didn’t jump to that conclusion. More like just a pain in the ass where I’m concerned. But again…I’m not suffering because of divorce…I’m MUCH happier because of it.

    So I’m no help…lol

    Much Love,

  52.  #52tinque on September 21, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    Jason – If I may. Being a couple without being married doesn’t mean we’re just dating forever.
    As Miss M said, we’re committed and want to be together forever. We feel as does Miss M and her J that marrying does not make us feel any more together or committed.
    I am not against marriage, but the way I see it, it’s a piece of paper which makes things legally and financially easier in some cases, and to some it does indeed mean something, especially those who are more religious. If children are involved I think it’s a good idea but again not necessarily necessary.
    For me it has no meaning. No paper or ceremony or any other public declaration would make me love K more or want to be with him more or more anything. And he feels the same.
    For me it’s something people do, and why do I need to conform. We don’t want children. Neither one of us is going anywhere, so why?
    I wouldn’t say no if he suddenly decided he wanted to, but even if we did marry, it wouldn’t change a thing between us.

  53.  #53Jacqueline on September 21, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    ps…you know what that guy who told me that answer to the divorce question said, and 3 others said close to the same?! Anytime we meet a girl who looks like you and she’s NOT taken, we assume she’s high maintenance/difficult, etc.

    Wowie…..I think those were all guys in their late 30’s tho? seems to be a difference in dating thinking and speaking from 35+ and 35-.

    thanks again,

  54.  #54Daria on September 21, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    I feel a deeper understanding of tinque and Mercedes “commitment” … they feel like true marriages to me… where they are happy and want to be together forever

  55.  #55tinque on September 21, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    Yes Daria, yes, and thank you, thank you, thank you.

  56.  #56Mercedes on September 21, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    I second tinque! Thank you Daria…so much…that’s exactly how I feel about it…

    Much Love,

  57.  #57Daria on September 21, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    i think thinking im high maintenance hasnt ever stopped a guy from pursuing me

    i can feel teh dust rubbles around these beliefs

    i am clearing them


    when he meets me

    sees a girl who looks like me but most feels a girl who feels like me he thinks wow i have never been here before, but it feels like home, i want this woman who is woman who is woman of skin parfume smoke and swirls, and lingerin soft sounds.

    more than meets the eye

    what meets the heart

    and what meets the hips

    is my hips

    dips circles swirls

    in creation

    lips burning

    wet or dry

    alight on fire man

    i wil dance you

    here and back

  58.  #58tinque on September 21, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    Nothing wrong with high maintenance whatever that might mean to you. You need to be treated with the greatest of care, like the precious gift that you are.
    It’s also possible to be easy, easy going, and high maintenance at the same time.

  59.  #59Jason Miller on September 21, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    51: tinque

    I totally get that. And I support your and Mercedes decisions to not be married out of choice. And I also see objectively why couples would want to be married. You gave the obvious reasons that I would have probably come up with on my own.

    I guess what I’m asking might not have a clear answer. I also went back and read what Shelly wrote again. It was a little confusing to me as to whether she was actually OK with just living together without being married or not. I now think she is OK with that. I assumed somewhere along the line she wasn’t. I might be barking up a tree that isn’t even there! 🙂

    Thanks for staying with me on this one.

  60.  #60lm on September 21, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    @ 57:


    i love this!

  61.  #61Jason Miller on September 21, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    52: Jacqueline says:

    “ps…you know what that guy who told me that answer to the divorce question said, and 3 others said close to the same?! Anytime we meet a girl who looks like you and she’s NOT taken, we assume she’s high maintenance/difficult, etc.”

    The assumption here is that a good looking woman wants to be in a relationship at all times and is capable of having a boyfriend at all times. Therefore, if she is available, then she must be getting dumped on a regular basis because there’s something wrong with her.

    Men will come up with any reason they can to avoid asking a good looking woman out because they fear rejection. Assuming she’s “difficult” because she’s attractive and available sure saves a guy from putting himself out there, doesn’t it?

  62.  #62Jacqueline on September 21, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    Jason, thank you for that, it took all I had to not ugly up and dumb down. Smile…

    What he did say that was an easy quote tho, and was EXACTLY what Scot McKay said? Women show up with walls, they show up with their last 500 dates with them, and then they want us to jump over those walls. Well, I’m NOT that guy, so don’t show up with him. Not sure if this is true, has always been true and guys didn’t know it, and now they do because of “man bashing?”….but yes! I agree and want the same from the guy…

    Because I might totally be like that girl on How I Met Your Mother and I’m only single for like 5 hours before some grabs me; how would you know just based on how I look?!

    Love that insight, Jason…thanks! I did put on 25 pounds – because of the breakup, because of the stress, because I was like damaged if I were beautiful?!!! and am now ready to really let them go. Oh, and maybe because of menopause – and the don’t get fat thing is another thing Athol, Scot and Jonathon all said. Which I would have heard as patronizing and shallow, but I’m now hearing as a real concern men have? In Jonathon’s case he went onto why you don’t want to be a trophy, tho, and that felt good.

    It’s nice to have you in the conversation, Jason!


  63.  #63Siena on September 21, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    hi everyone, it’s been a while since I’ve posted!

    hmmm… where to start…

    I’ve been spending a lot of time hanging out in my boy energy, and I feel exhausted! Even while I take time to pamper myself to make me feel good, it’s just not enough.

    I’d love to have a masculine guy step up and want to take me out and provide for me.

    So I’m back on the blog to practice some feeling messages and switch my vibe.

    I’d feel so good receiving attention and interest from a strong guy, one who doesn’t want me to run the relationship.

    Recently I was hunted down (like, literally!) by an old friend who I’ve known forever. He kissed me. I regretted it. Even though I used feeling messages with him the entire time, I was still hanging out in my boy energy, and he must have felt that vibe.

    I really felt ewww with him. I realized it’s because he wants to be taken care of (financially especially) and thinks I’m the type of woman who can do that.

    I felt bad because he doesn’t see ME. The REAL me. In college, he was the ‘it’ guy. Some of my girlfriends dated him, and he broke some hearts. He never asked me out then… now I’m completely unattracted, and it seems the tables have turned.

    That feels good in an egotistical kind of way.

    He told me what he liked about me, and they were all boy-energy things. That feels really icky! (I told him that.)

    …so, I’m back. To switch my vibe back to girl energy.

    I was doing really well in the Spring, and attracted a really great guy. Unfortunately, his personal life blew up and I haven’t talked to him in a while.

    He’s there on my IM day after day, and sometimes it’s all I can do to not IM him.

    This is not a control thing. It’s me wanting to be the girl in the relationship. I can easily date in “boy energy”, but it doesn’t get me the type of relationship I want.

    …and I’m doing a little experiment with this. I wonder, if I switch my vibe and really revel in my femininity, and practice that here on the blog… will he somehow feel it in the ether and contact me?

    Or will another great guy feel me call to him and be attracted?

    hmmm… experiment time.

    The good news is that even though I’ve been attracting girl energy guys, I have recognized it almost immediately and outgirled them.

    But in attracting them, I realize that I am projecting boy energy.

    blah blah blah, I feel all jumbled up and unable to express myself.

    Someone counsel me please (hehe!)

    xo Siena

  64.  #64Frenchkitty on September 21, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Tinque 51…

    “it’s a piece of paper which makes things legally and financially easier in some cases”

    Just to add to this, it’s also a piece of paper which makes things legally and financially a lot more difficult when you decide to split up. Just like with other legal agreements, I think we should be provided with the small print (and read it!) before we sign up…

    I do feel though that if you’re committed enough to have children with someone (much more serious than a legal agreement in my book), you should be committed enough to get married. It’s like making a commitment to being a family, rather than just to your partner.

    For everyone else, it’s entirely a matter of choice, and I don’t think married couples are automatically more committed. What I would say is that because it’s more difficult to split up if you are married, in my experience married people tend to think harder and wait longer before they split. That could be a good thing if the relationship can be saved… but not if one partner is suffering because of the other for whatever reason, and carries on doing so rather than face the dreaded divorce court…

  65.  #65Daria on September 21, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    i have a don’t get fat thing with men… hmmm… both my parents are careful about their weight

    especially my dad will call me and my mom out

    i want to be seen that i want the body shape I want for myself and feel accepted

    i can have this mmm

  66.  #66Daria on September 21, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    Love you Siena!! you’re doing great!

    you had your pond stirred up with the muddy stuff from the bottom,

    and now it will clear to even more loveliness.

    my pond was stirred in spring,…
    and its lovely now

  67.  #67Daria on September 21, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    exactly as you say, you can see how you have grown!

    what this means – tho – is that you have grown more than you can SEE

    and its about to fruit up and burst!

  68.  #68Frenchkitty on September 21, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    Siena 62…

    I loved reading that; it’s great when people share their experiences of how the “tools” work for them, or not. Keep us informed please…

  69.  #69Jason Miller on September 21, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    62: Siena

    As far as I’m concerned, if I had coached you and you came to these conclusions while working with me, I would call you a success story. You need no counsel as you are on the right track to get what you want. Your challenge now is to get your numbers up so that you’re not hung up on any particular guy. You are ready to be wowed by the one that really stands out and really wants only you.

    I’d like to make a blog post out of your comment if it’s alright with you and Rori. I think you’ve nailed it.

  70.  #70Siena on September 21, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    wow, I feel loved – thank you Daria, Frenchkitty and Jason!

    Daria, “is that you have grown more than you can SEE
    and its about to fruit up and burst!”

    Yay! I feel soooo GREAT reading that! I’m ready to see some fruits – thank you for seeing that!

    Jason, I feel humbled by your post. I won’t feel I ‘got it’ until I’ve got him! But if you want to post, post away!

    Re “numbers up.” I CD’d like a fiend all through the Winter and Spring. I really liked it (mostly – sometimes it was exhausting), but stopped mostly because it stopped feeling good to date a bunch of men.

    I’m not hung up on this one guy, but I do feel good when he’s around, and would like to feel that way again – whether it’s with him or another.

    I feel bored and tired with the online dating thing. Been there, done that. Met some wonderful people, but I’d feel better attracting someone great the old fashioned way.

    …so I’m imagining myself as a magnet. Not a wimpy Costco magnet, but a super-powered totally strong, “can’t-get-away-if-you-tried” magnet.

  71.  #71Frenchkitty on September 21, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    Siena, you are on a roll!
    I love the magnet thing… it is a really FUN image! I’m seeing it like in a 50’s comic strip… Magnetic Magic Marvel Chick or something… excellent… I think I will try this too…

  72.  #72life_is_too_short_to... on September 21, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    33. tinque
    ” Take out the first part, and you have it. “I feel…I don’t want to feel like this. It feels bad feeling like this.”
    You can add a, what do you think? or something I prefer, can you help?”

    Thank you much, tinque, that’s a good tweak.

    Now, if I communicate sincerely that way with a man and he says he can’t help or doesn’t care how you feel, you will have a sign that it might be time to know when to fold ’em.

    That’s from Evan’s post today, he says:

    “The secret to relationships is understanding when to hold ‘em and when to fold ‘em. And if you spend all your time trying to MAKE a man do ANYTHING, you’re missing out on the beauty that is a HEALTHY relationship.”

    Sorry, I’m too much of a diva goddess that respects herself to stand for neglect, abuse or work for crumbs.


    Let’s hear it for the man who wants to commit to great happiness and joy with me in a healthy relationship!!

  73.  #73Jason Miller on September 21, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    69: Siena

    What I mean by “numbers up” is simply having such rock-solid congruence in your femininity that you know there’s always another guy out there who will approach you very soon. Your job is to screen and reject the one’s you’re not interested in. It will take some practice to feel confident so you’re in a great position to work on it.

    You’ve got the main issue handled which is expressing your feminine energy when you want to so you get the result you want. That’s really the hard part. Now it’s just practice and application of your new skills.

  74.  #74Jacqueline on September 21, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    Daria – I wonder if your mom’s gone through menopause? Cuz for me it was like TWO YEARS (even though the doctor said I was done at the beginning of all that!) of wanting chocolate I mean seriously out of control bloating and cravings; like pmsing 3 weeks out of a month….maybe only 3 or 4 hot flashes, lucky me…and everyone said, just let it go, it’ll fall off when you’re done. And I’m just now “done,” pretty much. Since I don’t look older no one really ever told me anything, and everyone I know has had a hysterectomy, etc. I only had one friend that ever just went through it.

    Tinque works with this kind of stuff, but I am feeling so much less cravings these last three months, thank heavens!!! I might really be done!

    I think menopause is kind of swept under the rug due to women not wanting to talk about aging, and drs. wanting to rush you into a hysterectomy – I had to walk out on two doctors that that was their first response to my endometriosis. And my doctor now says he’ll give me HRT if I want it….but I’ve held out all this time, so kind of feel like what’s the point?

    And I got this skinny skiny but muscled guy…who loves my tummy?!!! I’m either lucky or it’s just weird!~still, I’m the one who has to live authentically in my body. And I’d hate to be called out on it by anyone – why do you think your dad does that? what do you think?



  75.  #75Brenda on September 21, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    I have a one hour drive to and from work. Sometimes I feel like I’m in orbit with so much driving. It really got to me today, and when I got home, it felt so good to just sit and let my mind stop spinning. I texted my brother to keep myself from texting Ryan. Normally we text silly stuff, word play. Tonight after some word play, I threw in some feeling messages. He got real quiet, so after about 10 minutes, I texted, “TMI?”

    He wrote back, “Three Mile Island?”

    He was avoiding intimacy. I texted, “Are you scared?” No response. Ha! He’s not used to feeling messages from me too much.

    I am really into Dancing with the Stars this season, especially Jennifer Grey, David Hasselhoff, and Michael Bolton. I wish I could dance better. I love to dance.

    I feel really concerned about my weight. It is affecting my health, and I keep trying to eat better. But I like food so much and I think about it too often. I am not losing weight. Next year is my 30th class reunion from high school. I would like so much to go in a size 12…and with a man by my side.

    At moments like this, I feel so far from my goals. I just am going to go lie down.

  76.  #76Lizzie on September 21, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    marriage and being 40….well I will weigh in on this one. I am of the impression that the quality of the long term relationship is what is important. I know many many couples who are not married, have children, own property together, love each other deeply, call each other partner and are incredibly happy – and not married.

    Where I see something that needs attending to, is the person who has reached 40 and has not had a significant relationship. My woman friends where this has happened, have a close circle of friends that go all the way back to high school and interestingly, they have continued to do stuff together and the circle is “closed” – not enough new people coming into the circle to support building new romantic relationships. And due to the comfort of the circle, they don’t seem to notice time go by and they don’t have a partner. They suddenly wake up one day and go “oh my, I guess I won’t be having kids…”

    Then there is another group that come from incredibly dysfunctional families (like me! and look what I did – married a gay guy!!) – need I say more…the pattern is everything we are all working on here.

    Then there is this unique group – the “only child”. Now this is totally unscientific and just by observation in my 25-year counseling practice….the number of only children not married just astounded me. My “theory” is they don’t learn how to share effectively. I arrived at this generality because they had problems at work (which is the kind of counseling I did), they couldn’t share information, resources, power; they struggled with some types of teams, some had problems in leadership roles etc etc etc. and when I asked them about their backgrounds, there was a significant number who were only children. I found that interesting.

    My next round I am fully planning on being the unmarried and extremely happy variety! I am finally getting rid of all the dysfunctional stuff that protected me as a child and is not working any more – I am LIBERATED!!! yeeah!!

  77.  #77Brenda on September 21, 2010 at 4:44 pm


    Thank you for sharing the story. Like we say to everyone else…spam away! No one ever told you to hold back, right? I think it’s beautiful how you pour out your heart here!

    I wondered at first if you wrote the story.

  78.  #78Brenda on September 21, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    I got really silly in a work meeting today with Mike. I have gotten too familiar with him. It is funny sometimes, but today I got carried away. Once I start laughing, sometimes I can’t stop. I think it stems from childhood when I was stomped on every time I expressed emotion. So I learned to repress it.

    Now when my emotion comes out, whether it’s positive or negative, it tends to be extremely intense.

    I feel concerned because many times when people interact with me I get carried away and too silly, too sad, too loving, or whatever. I have a lot of love to give. I gave a lot of love to Ryan. It wasn’t appropriate, because he wasn’t returning it at that level. Yet I couldn’t moderate my love tank, and it just kept pouring out like a tidal wave over a broken dam. Damn.

  79.  #79Siena on September 21, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Thank you Jason! I realize that I didn’t really receive your first post’s compliment and advice. I appreciate what you said and the advice you offered – thank you!

    Isn’t it funny how I said that I wanted to get back into my girl energy, and then a man offered me something, and I kind of blocked it? (Not rejecting it full out, but not really receiving it either.)

    …off to do some shopping. And getting hot chocolate first. Chocolate and shopping! Feels yummy!

  80.  #80Lizzie on September 21, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    Siena – I appreciate how you are clear and I feel empathy with you. I am glad you are back for a while!

  81.  #81Siena on September 21, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    Frenchkitty – hehe I love it! (#70)

  82.  #82Siena on September 21, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    Thank you Lizzie! It feels good to be back!

  83.  #83Brenda on September 21, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    I feel alienated too often from Kenny. We talk on the phone every day for 15-30 minutes. I shared with him my dream that I shared this morning on the “Observing…” thread. As usual, he interrupted me and said, “There you go, now you’re talking! I’ve been telling you you need some dick!”

    As usual, he totally missed the feeling behind the dream. I want to be listened to. It feels so good to be understood. When I give him those feeling messages, he typically says, “I understand you better than anyone in your life.” or “I DO understand you.” Then I feel all the more isolated. I say, “I feel unheard” and he typically says, “Oh, here we go. Why do you always want to start a fight, huh?? Why can’t we just love on each other?”

    I say, “I do love you. I want to love on you. I also want to feel listened to and understood.” I get nowhere so I get nowhere so I get nowhere so I get nowhere so I give up and just say I love you.

    Then I miss Ryan, who got me deeper than any human being I ever talked to.

  84.  #84Brenda on September 21, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    I feel frustrated with myself that I forgot to bring home the power cord for the laptop. So I will have a dead battery soon. 🙁 I like the blog.

  85.  #85Brenda on September 21, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    I like animals so much. I have a litter of three kittens, and they’re 5 weeks old. I want to play with them, but I want to rest. I need to rest. I miss Ryan. I feel emotional tonight. I feel bored, angry, frustrated, happy, silly, sad, agitated, overwhelmed, and not connected or at peace. I am going to cuddle with my dogs. I like to cuddle.

  86.  #86Nikita on September 21, 2010 at 4:59 pm


    I wanted to thank you for sharing your dream from the other thread…. That felt so deep and intimate…. But beautiful and vulnerable and authentic.

  87.  #87Brenda on September 21, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    Do you think the internet will eventually make stores obsolete? Or certain types of stores?

    I want Ryan to call me tonight. I will not text him. I will not text him.

  88.  #88Brenda on September 21, 2010 at 5:00 pm


    Thank you and you’re welcome. I don’t know what was beautiful about it. I think it was ugly. It felt horrible. I felt no self-value in it at all. Just shame and devaluing of myself.

  89.  #89Brenda on September 21, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    I want to be on the Biggest Loser, but one time I looked into it and you have to have a certain level of fitness for all the excercise. I don’t think that’s fair, because obesity makes people not healthy. I think they ought to work with all people who want to try at the level where they are at, like to be able to do swimming instead of jogging. I can’t jog in my condition.

    Well my computer will be dead soon. I used to be on Craigslist every day. I like being addicted to the blog here much better. I know no one is perfect, but I find so much kindness and love here, and I really appreciate it. It feels good to come here when I feel lonely, and right now I feel extra lonely.

    I guess I will watch the Biggest Loser and try for a little more motivation. I wish I could get back into the weight loss mode I was in in the 80s when I lost 90 lbs. I want to be in a size 12 again so bad. 🙁

  90.  #90Lizzie on September 21, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    giggle…giggle…grin 😉

    HA! the Young Thing from eH – thinks I am “awesome!” and wants to have a date with me on Saturday.

    Yesterday, he sent me a note with a whole pile of his background and why he was attracted to my answers to the “forced” questions and was thankful that I requested to go to email. Then he asked about my background. I did it differently this time. I only said where I had lived and that I have this bucket list and sent him a few of the ones I had posted here and then did a feeling message at the end.

    Too cute! this guy, wrote how he would help me do the things on the list – each one had their own little paragraph. So funny – I think he even did research on what each one was – like he wrote stuff that he had to either know about or went and found out about. Isn’t that hilarious!!

    And then…..I think I had posted to the list that I had gotten involved with this married guy – he actually sent me a note this afternoon. This is so funny.

    And now I have Family Guy all ready to “edit” the erotica I am supposed to be writing…

  91.  #91life_is_too_short_to... on September 21, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    i feel judged (not by anyone here) and i don’t really like feeling like that.

    I don’t like feeling judged especially by someone who says they love me.

    If I feel judged, do they really totally accept me?

    It doesn’t feel good to be in an intimate relationship with someone who doesn’t totally accept me or who I do not totally accept.

    I may not like everything about the person, but, unless it is a major deal breaker, I would hope that I would love a person enough that was headed towards long term commitment, that I would overlook minor things and love them, not in spite of them, but because of them.


  92.  #92Lizzie on September 21, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    Brenda – you can loose the weight. Start with reducing 200 cal a day and add exercise. It comes off. You can do it. Just think of the pool of men growing – you will attract MORE men. And MORE IS GOOD!

  93.  #93life_is_too_short_to... on September 21, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    Good for you, Lizzie!! It sounds like you are doing absolutely fabulously staying in your girl energy, and having fun! They are getting in line to cater to you!!


  94.  #94Daria on September 21, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    from Abraham-Hicks: “Stop trying to control the behaviour of others and control your opinion of others.” February 2010, San Francisco CA

    RECORD: my opinon of others is that they really wanna kick it with me! (was feeling lonely earlier)

  95.  #95Lizzie on September 21, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    So, Young Thing is 13 years younger than me….

    POF – all the “good” hits are between 28 – 40 – they like my list…all the guys I send a little hint to, who are closer to my age, write back and then don’t do anything to keep a convo going.

    I am going to go out with Young Thing. LOL!

  96.  #96Daria on September 21, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    Brenda – try the wendi friesen hypnosis sessions for weight loss.

    I used the free 4 minute one on youtube, and I didn’t eat practically for 3 days cuz nothing was “healthy” enough that i could find, and

    i just didn’t desire anything unhealthy

    it Super works for me

    (shockingly well – lol)

  97.  #97Daria on September 21, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    Brenda – I felt touched by your dream too.

    What was beautiful was that I FELT it. I love your awful feeling feelings.

    and mine.

    and that feels like

    we’re really powerful and goddesslike

    and we get all that we want because we have compassion for all our feelings, even the weak awful ones

  98.  #98Daria on September 21, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    I am an only child and i chioose to dispell the bad feelings stereotypes about me like smoke in the wind

  99.  #99life_is_too_short_to... on September 21, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    I thought I wanted to just CD myself for a while, but I have a few possible worthwhile exploring guys from POF pursuing me, so I’m going to let go of my excuses not to and engage with them.

    I have to, because I’m still thinking about LD man a little too much. Haven’t had communication with him in two weeks now! This is a good thing.

    It is giving me the space to sort everything out without getting “the crazies” (from CODA-speak) as to facing head on how some of my approaches were so not-effective, in general, and how, more than likely, in this scenario, it would not have mattered WHAT I did…the guy is just not in the right space for a healthy relationship…with any one.

    I also feel a whole lot better about myself and have had some crazy amazing wonderful interactions with clients and with people I meet out and about.

    I feel happy, motivated, hopeful and have more energy.

    I’m doing an herbal cleanse and working with EFT too.


  100.  #100Daria on September 21, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    As usual, he interrupted me and said, “There you go, now you’re talking! I’ve been telling you you need some dick!”

    [to me this is quite a common man response – they might feel uncomfortable with the icky feelings, or miss them all together, doesn’t matter…]

    ohh… that feels weird to hear… im feeling kinda bad… the dream felt really weird and icky and bad, i felt all grossed out, and unspecial… and im feeling misunderstood and sad…

    im actually feeling a lil bit angry and distant from you hearing that… and i dont want to feel that way

  101.  #101Daria on September 21, 2010 at 5:31 pm

    Brenda –

    anohter video I’ve been using is the… when you’re stuck one from Wendi Friesen… also on youtube

    to visualize doing myself a task perfectly – i use Exercise,

    and yesterday i exercised TWICE! crazay

  102.  #102Daria on September 21, 2010 at 5:33 pm


  103.  #103life_is_too_short_to... on September 21, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    82 Brenda
    That sounds a lot like LD man.
    Avoidance behavior. Very frustrating!
    Shallow, dickhead behavior haha, (sorry to be judgmental.) It’s like, who has the energy to
    deal with THAT?? Grow up, for goodness’ sake!

  104.  #104life_is_too_short_to... on September 21, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    OK, sorry, it’s a GREAT opportunity to practice feeling messages. Good one, Daria!

  105.  #105Daria on September 21, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    For hypnosis to work, it helps to repeat going into trance. Focus on the voice.

    for some reason, probably meditation and practice with Wendi Friesen’s stuff…

    I get really well hypnotized from her sessions now.

    She also has a BUNCH of her online video shows archived on stickam… tho they may not be labeled,,, the hypnosis is usually somewhre in the middle, most of the beginning is her talking.

    But this youtube ones, are really short and to the point.

    This is the one for Doing an activity Well (Exercise, cooking, for me…

    I always imagine myself exercising while smiling, and feeling really good… AND feeling accomplished and super healthy at the end


  106.  #106Daria on September 21, 2010 at 5:48 pm

  107.  #107Brenda on September 21, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    Hey everyone, thank you for the support!!! I really appreciate it! Daria, those feeling messages for Kenny are perfecto. Thank you so much!

    My loneliness got the better of me when I was resting lying down watching the first episode of “Biggest Loser”. I felt so overwhelmed by the amount of weight I need to lose (150 lbs). I felt angry watching them force these out of shape overweight people jog a mile in order to win being on the show. F*ckers! It’s the ones who do the mile the slowest, or can’t finish at all, who need the help the most! I used to jog an 8 minute mile and walk a 12 minute mile. Now I’d do well to walk a 20 minute mile.

    So I texted Ryan. I have avoided texting him for 9 days, so for me, that’s monumental baby steps. First I texted:

    “I feel really embarrassed that I overfunctioned again. I feel sad.”

    No response for 15 min. I texted:

    “You doing ok?”

    When he didn’t respond in another 15 min, I texted him really deep, and yes, I know I was leaning forward and all that. I just get overcome sometimes. I wrote:

    “I give up. I can’t outgirl you. You win every time. I feel so lonely. I yearn for the deep intimacy we once shared. What do you think?”

    He texted, “I’ll call you in a few minutes.”

    When he called, I was too emotional to lean back and I just poured out my little heart to him, telling him how he understands me better than anyone and he is my role model for a good listener and I told him about the blog for the first time (not the location of it). I just told him I have girlfriends online and one who is local. And after I talked to him he said I’ll call you in a few days. I was out for a walk with some friends and I’m at someone’s house right now. And that’s okay. I feel happy he called me.

    I am crying now. I am just too lonely. My battery’s about to go dead. Talk to you all tomorrow.


  108.  #108Brenda on September 21, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    P.S. Daria, I’ll check out those sites and thank you again and I especially appreciate your comments on my dream. I feel better about it. I kinda felt like I was spreading my legs just to share it.

  109.  #109Daria on September 21, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    Brenda – I totally get what you mean, it feels very scary. For some reason i really really relate to you about this dream, i am seeing you as an expression of myself. I have those kind of visions sometimes and they feel awful, its a familiar feeling…

    i think it may even be stuff i think about when i try to touch myself, yes it is, im babystepping to healing that whatever it is

  110.  #110Daria on September 21, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    Brenda – when I decide to lean forward, I usually try to rockstar it with this:

    ” I feel so lonely.”

    but now I shall add my version this… i LOVE IT..
    I yearn for the deep intimacy we once shared. What do you think?”

    well maybe after he replies.. i dono… fEELS SCARY!!!

    whoa those are my real feelings!

    “i miss feeling close to you”

    “i yearn to feel close to you”

    i don’t dare use the word yearn, haha!1 watch me use it

  111.  #111Daria on September 21, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    omg, I just did the hypnosis, imagining myself as dedicating this task as homage to Goddess Daria (I felt HER) and SMILING, and her talent is she can shape her body as she wants, and after drinking protein shake CHEEESING smiling and feeling honoring!


    i was feeling blah before


    i gotta go do this NOW!!!



  112.  #112Daria on September 21, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    Brenda – before listening to the hypnosis though,

    I think what kicked it in to actually work for me so much stronger than before, is doing these two (short) EFT youtube videos.

    on Resistance to change


    on loving my self sabotager (crying a lot, so healing feeling to me)


    Just awesome stuff that WORKS for me Really Works!

  113.  #113Daria on September 21, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    Brenda – before listening to the hypnosis though,

    I think what kicked it in to actually work for me so much stronger than before, is doing these two (short) EFT youtube videos.

    on Resistance to change


  114.  #114Daria on September 21, 2010 at 7:01 pm


    on loving my self sabotager (crying a lot, so healing feeling to me)


    Just awesome stuff that WORKS for me Really Works!

  115.  #115Jennifer on September 21, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    I’m feel I’m totally wierd.
    Last night I messaged judo man..I needed the link for the instruction manual, I couldn’t find the document anywere.
    I swear the full moon is making my brain into mush. Equinox is the worst.
    My hormones are all over the place. I nearly jumped some poor bugger at walmart.
    I told him I needed to review it but my poor brain is mush.
    He messages me back and says…here’s the link, you must need some pot..or an orgasm.
    you can’t just say things like that to me!!!
    So I said…LOL I did nearly jump a guy in walmart.
    Then I told him I was going to get in the tub and see about that orgasm.
    then signed off
    So tonight at judo…he taught me all the stuff he was supposed to …….and that’s all. No extra touching. LOL
    Does little man not like to play with the big girls?
    But I feel wierd cause I noticed that he was sort of attaching to a new girl. Small and blonde of course.
    I kept waiting to feel jealous or annoyed. But I just felt amused.
    Like really…you can’t handle playing with the grown ups but the young ones make you feel like yer in charge?
    At the end of class he offered tohelp me get my hair tie out of my hair ……….
    I froze up…

  116.  #116Jennifer on September 21, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    I feel wierd cause I DIDNT get annoyed.
    I feel wierd cause I froze up.

  117.  #117Lakshmi on September 21, 2010 at 11:25 pm

    Brenda, I think for most people who have a lot of weight to lose, it is not simply a matter of eat less, exercise more. That works, of course, but it fails to address the emotional component. The urge to eat, or overeat, is so strong, and it is not rational. There’s a book, and a related website, Shrink Yourself, that addresses these deeper issues of compulsive emotional eating. Maybe you’ll find it helpful. You are beautiful, as you are now, and you will be beautiful when you lose weight. But your worth and value is entirely independent of your weight.

  118.  #118Daria on September 21, 2010 at 11:50 pm

    Brenda –

    something i noticed from 74. I know its about your brother, yet it would help with men in general

    “I texted my brother to keep myself from texting Ryan. Normally we text silly stuff, word play. Tonight after some word play, I threw in some feeling messages. He got real quiet, so after about 10 minutes, I texted, “TMI?”

    He wrote back, “Three Mile Island?”

    He was avoiding intimacy. I texted, “Are you scared?” No response. Ha! He’s not used to feeling messages from me too much.

    HE WAS AVOIDING INTIMACY — I’ve found that making such assumptions as to why a man is doing something, no matter how “right” I think I am, is actually ME avoiding my feelings, and instead being in his business

    this CHANGES THE ENERGY of the exchange….

    asking a man, “Are you scared?” comes from this conclusion and has at this point lost the respect for his masculine

    what’s helped me is to notice when im making a conclusion about what’s going on with him “he’s insecure.” ‘he’s avoiding intimacy” “he’s a jerk” “he doesn’t care about me”

    and gently take my attention to my feelings…

    i feel amused, i feel unheard, im feeling kinda embarassed now…


  119.  #119Daria on September 22, 2010 at 12:32 am

    wow! i just did the hypnosis for stuckness AND

    i just did my second exercise routine for the day!


    i rock so hard

  120.  #120Jennifer on September 22, 2010 at 3:53 am

    your “voice” is so familiar. Do you live in Canada?

  121.  #121Sunflower on September 22, 2010 at 5:00 am

    Thankyou Daria, maybe now I am on the most recent thread. Feel like saying a hi to everyone, and reading…

  122.  #122life_is_too_short_to... on September 22, 2010 at 6:25 am


    Geneen Roth’s books are good too, the latest is
    Women, Food and God.


  123.  #123life_is_too_short_to... on September 22, 2010 at 6:46 am

    Speak of the devil, LD man texted me last night with a photo. I felt surprised. Could be because he feels several other guys swarming around.

    Exchanged a few lighthearted texts back and forth and then I said it was time for me to go to sleep. He ended with an “I miss you”. I didn’t lean forward. Instead i wrote, “Why wouldn’t you?” (subtext: i’m such a goddess, you would be a fool not to miss me! haha!) and that was it.

    I feel in-control un-attachment now

    I feel much less attached to an outcome in this anymore

    i don’t feel much substance there anyway, the fantasy has lessened considerably

    I am creating the space to let in the man who truly wants to step up and be with only me, and needs me because he loves me, not loves me because he needs me,

    I felt happy inside to hear from him, but not that immediate impulse to want to throw him in a cage and yell “mine”!

    I feel the air is somewhat cleared, like, no animosity.
    This is good. It’s just neutral.

    I feel very contented with myself and my life and what is going on in it, challenges and all.

    I am going to find the means to go back to school and focus on taking care of myself and not having to depend on anybody

    Everything is a wonderful reflection of God and my Self

    Today I am going to start my list of 100 things that I like and I am going to complete it by the end of the week.

    Thank you


  124.  #124Siena on September 22, 2010 at 8:58 am

    Daria, #116 –

    “I’ve found that making such assumptions as to why a man is doing something, no matter how ‘right’ I think I am, is actually ME avoiding my feelings, and instead being in his business”

    this really struck home for me. I didn’t realize until I read that that it is something I’ve been doing. Not TELLING him anything, but – like I said earlier – it’s in my vibe.

    So thank you for that gentle reminder. It’s all a mirror that boomerangs back on me. (as Erika wrote in another thread).

    Hmmm, I feel sad. I feel lonely. I feel angry – at myself mostly – for not being able to sustain a healthy adult romantic relationship. I feel curious about how to do that. I feel afraid that I will NEVER get it right and that time to have children will run out for me. I feel hopeful that God will step in a provide justice here – (from Erika’s other thread re Course in Miracles). I realize that I’ve been trying to do this all myself, and I’ve failed. The cycle has kept repeating itself, and every time it repeats, I feel more worn down than before.

    I feel afraid that I don’t have enough hope and a close enough connection with God for Him to provide me with a miracle.

    I feel untrusting that I have to be anything more than I already am in order to get the romantic area of my life in balance.

    I feel happy that I’m only working a half day today so that I can take some time to take care of other things in my life.

    I feel grateful for this blog and all the women (and men) here.

  125.  #125Lakshmi on September 22, 2010 at 9:42 am

    Hey Jennifer, I actually live in CA, but my mom grew up in Canada, so maybe I picked up some of her “voice.”

    It’s so great to be able to connect with women from all over the world here!

  126.  #126Brenda on September 22, 2010 at 9:57 am

    Daria and Siena,

    You are right on about being attuned to MY feelings and stating MY feelings. It probably would have had a more positive outcome. The way I did it, he probably felt attacked.

    But this is my brother we’re talking about, who I’ve known for 46 years…chuckle! So no harm done! Totally practice for me! He’s a good sport! And, he knows his sister is quite emotional! 🙂

  127.  #127Brenda on September 22, 2010 at 10:01 am

    Hello everyone who gave me feedback! I really appreciate it! I will definitely look into the links, etc. you shared. And I totally believe overeating is fundamentally an emotional issue, not physical. You deal with the emotional, and the physical will fall into place. Altho I really do like food! 🙂 But I think that is because it has felt like a friend during the many times in my life when I’ve felt lonely or like I couldn’t depend on a loved one.

    So I think my solution is building solid in-person relationships. Along with the emotional healing I am already in process with. When I was with Ryan, I dropped about 3 lbs a week. It was pretty simple. I was about Ryan. Food meant little to me.

  128.  #128Brenda on September 22, 2010 at 10:06 am

    I feel concerned that I told Ryan I have made friends on a blog. He has a way of finding things out. 🙂 And all thru our relationship, he was finely attuned to who I was spending time with and on the phone with. IF he’s still interested in me, now he will try to find out the name of the blog, and I don’t want him to.

    When he asks me if I have friends or who I am hanging out with, in the future, how is the best way to respond? I think the immediate thing that prompted him to ask was when I said I feel so lonely.

    You are such a unique group of people, and I value you. I tried to talk with a girlfriend at work about relationships yesterday, and she felt like a wall. She poo-phooed the feminine energy idea of leaning back, saying in today’s society things have changed. I was simply trying to explain it to her and I felt cut off. And that’s okay. I mean, not everyone is at the same place. But I mention that because, even tho I think in person relationships are needed to feel connected on the planet, I gravitate to you all because I feel we are in a mutual space emotionally, and I love to learn from and interact with you all! It is something I just don’t have in most of my every day world. The exception to that, of course, is Lucy! Because she lives nearby! Thank God for Lucy! 🙂

    I love you all!

  129.  #129Brenda on September 22, 2010 at 10:10 am

    Oh, another thing Ryan always asks in conjunction with who I am hanging out with is, “What do you talk about?”

    When he asked that last night, I told him, “Mostly inner healing, personal growth, self-discovery, how to have positive, healthy relationships…”

    I failed to tell him most of us are here to discover the best way to have the penis you want! LOL!:-) Just kidding!

    I feel scared to let him know too much about me, even tho I spilled the beans last night in my loneliness. Because in the past, he used my most personal feelings against me and more than broke my heart…he f*cked my heart and turned it into ribbons.

    I believe Ryan minus schizophrenia is a very gentle, awesome, caring, considerate, respectful man. That is the man I am still in love with.

  130.  #130Brenda on September 22, 2010 at 10:14 am

    Any suggestions what I can say for damage control to my brother? Should I just return to word play texts and drop it, getting a fresh start?

  131.  #131Renee on September 22, 2010 at 10:22 am

    I just wanted to share how much sharing feeling messages has brought Blondie and I closer the past couple of days…

    We were txting yesterday and I don’t know how I got on the topic but I started talking about me sharing my feelings and how I’m getting better at it because I’ve realized that holding them back doesn’t help your relationships.

    I went into how when men first meet me, they assume I’m perfect because most of them find me very attractive physically, but the put me on a pedestal and then I feel pressure to remain “perfect” and stay on that pedestal and that has kept me from letting anyone grow close to me in a long time. I told him I had done that with him at the beginning as well because he was absolutely blown away by me when we met (so much so that he all he could mutter was, “Wow…I need to catch my breathe”) and that I was too busy keeping my pedestal in place to really get to know him until last weekend, when I accidentally got stupid drunk and he took care of me and took me home. (I feel really embarrassed to share this with you all, but it’s my honest experience).

    In any event, he told me that he was flattered that I felt comfortable enough with him to share all that with him and that this was as much of a turn on for him as holding me or kissing me was! Now, this is obviously someone who’s really into me and wants a real relationship…I think if I’d shared all that with some other man who didn’t really want a relationship with me, he wouldn’t have reacted as positively, but then again, that would tell me it was time to “fold ’em” (reference to an earlier post referencing Evan’s recent blog post), and that would be of some benefit as well, right?

    So my take away is that with the wrong guy, feeling messages may not work very well, but with the right guy, they’ll bring you much closer and absolutely draw him to you.

  132.  #132Brenda on September 22, 2010 at 10:54 am


    That’s fantastic! I feel so happy for you! Good job with the feeling messages! 🙂

  133.  #133Ragnell on September 22, 2010 at 11:36 am


    You’re not the source of my pain. You have come here to heal me. You have come here to help me reassess pass wounds.

    I do not own you. I do not want to be possessive. I do not want to be jealous.

    I like to be free to feel whatever it is that I am feeling. I love to be marvelled at my own capacity to feel something intensely.

    I am merely expressing myself, and that does not mean I am asking something for you. My jealousy is mine, and my own to deal with. It is not a request for you to do anything. Even though it is not a pleasant feeling, I am not going to stop feeling it just because you ask me to.

  134.  #134Brenda on September 22, 2010 at 12:39 pm


    RE: #113 – “He messages me back and says…here’s the link, you must need some pot..or an orgasm.”

    Do you think he was “feeling” you out…to see if you were personally interested in him? Or has that already been established. Maybe he was hoping you would flirt back and ask him to provide you those things. What do you think?

  135.  #135Lucy on September 22, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    Jason – #60 –

    What do you think of this?

    A guy that sometimes texts me said he accidentally hit the “call” button (I didn’t answer it and I have never talked to him on the phone or met him in person — and don’t really want to…). Then he texted me this:

    “I am too chicken to call you. I find you attractive and am apt to think you can probably do better. 😉 Not a lack of confidence just an overwhelming sense of reality.”

    What do you think?

  136.  #136Brenda on September 22, 2010 at 1:06 pm


    RE: #115 – I am on the shrink yourself website, and it is the most relevant thing I’ve seen on weight loss in a long time. Thanks again!

    I know exactly what to eat and not eat to lose weight. But that doesn’t change my behavior. This will! 🙂

  137.  #137Brenda on September 22, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    Life is too short,

    RE: #120 – Women Food and God looks excellent too! I am glad people are finally seeing it’s an emotional issue. Thanks again!

  138.  #138Lucy on September 22, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    Brenda, the thing that really cured me of emotional eating was to STOP — hard as it was every time, like pulling the reins of a horse that really wants to run — and then FEEL my feelings, whatever they were at the moment — pain, grief, fear, etc. Michael Brown’s book, The Presence Process, helped me a lot with this, as did TN man’s continual encouragement to “feel it to heal it” and “what you resist persists.”

    Michael Brown calls overeating and other addictions, “sedating and controlling” behaviors — ways to sedate and control our feelings so that we don’t have to feel them as intensely.

    I love you and am so proud of you!


  139.  #139Frenchkitty on September 22, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Brenda 86…

    No I don’t think the internet will EVER make stores obsolete, because shopping is just too much fun!
    Sure, internet shopping can be fun too, but you always have to wait for the stuff to arrive, which is just not the same as wanting something and holding it in your hand straight away.

    Then there’s the physical, sensual side… It’s just nicer to see the dress, touch the fabric, try on the shoes, smell the leather, leaf through the book before you decide to buy it… I could go on. And that’s just the merchandise… then there’s the atmosphere of the store itself. I love Amazon, but it’s nothing like an old-fashioned bookstore where you can browse at leisure. Here in France they often are bookshops and cafes at the same time, which is even better. Then there are altogether gorgeous fashion boutiques and lingerie places (I’m thinking of Agent Provocateur…)….

    Last not least, you meet real people in real stores. You can discuss what you like and need with the assistant, exchange ideas… and even meet real men.

    So, the internet will never make stores obsolete. It’s a bit like masturbation and “real sex”…. It’s fun, it’s convenient and it has its place, but it’s not a replacement for the real thing….

  140.  #140Daria on September 22, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    Lucy – either don’t answer (he might call you later)

    or say,,, oh… i feel confused.. this feels weird.. i don’t really feel good with men that don’t take the lead…

    what do you think?

    ps – (my guess is that you’ll quickly find out he was right)

  141.  #141Daria on September 22, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    Brenda – the hypnosis video really helped me with the emotional stuff… its like it took the craving away.. hope it works as well for you too

    i’ve been using it exercise daily now, and i used to dread that

  142.  #142Dorothea on September 22, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    I’ve been hanging out in my boy energy, myself, but my LI has been stepping up to actively address my girl energy by taking care of me while I take care of the whole world around me.

    It’s been worth it. Been all over the news today. It was funny…I woke up late and didn’t have time to put on makeup, but I look GREAT in the photos today. Best pictures yet in my extensive experience.

  143.  #143Brenda on September 22, 2010 at 2:05 pm


    What’s been all over the news?

  144.  #144Dorothea on September 22, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    Brenda, a local medical marijuana grower who is protected under state constitutional law is being prosecuted at the federal level and is facing a minimum of 60 years.

  145.  #145Lizzie on September 22, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    giggle giggle….Max (the married guy I had a thing with at the beginning of the year) has sent me a note. I get the feeling that he is checking the temperature to see if I might see him again. LOL. Oh, I would be such a rock star. He was one awesome lover. Hmmmm, yummy….we shall see. I am responding to his little notes with little feeling messages, and haven’t leaned in and asked him if he would like to get together to see if we might re-connect. I am having fun with this one.

    And my Young Guy is seriously stepping up! wholllllllyy!!! He is out of town and researching where to take me out to brunch – only asked what part of the city I live in. I am so proud of myself – I only answered and didn’t lean in and make any suggestions.

    And! even better…today in a conference I was triggered by one of the presenters – I recognized it, labeled it, let it sit, opened myself to it being a different perspective, relaxed from it, and was able to stay listening. Before – I would have engaged in a discussion.

    I feel proud of myself!
    I feel energized.
    I feel pleasantly happy.
    I feel love for me.

    I am off for a little walk-run. And I am happy about that because I hurt my knee really badly at the beginning of the summer and had to turn my daily 5K (that is 2.5 miles) runs into a walk 🙁 and now I am just beginning to test that knee and seem to be ok! – I actually ran 500m (about a quarter mile) before searing pain yesterday – yippee! 🙂

  146.  #146Lizzie on September 22, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    Dorothy – you just keep advocating! go girl!!! I have projects in the HIV and MS communities – they live on it. I am on your side.

  147.  #147Dorothea on September 22, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    Lizzie, I can totally feel your awesome vibes. I feel good!

  148.  #148Lizzie on September 22, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    Sorry Dorothea – I got carried away in my excitement for you and spelled your name incorrectly – please excuse me.

  149.  #149Lizzie on September 22, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    thank you Dorothea!
    At lunch one of the other presenters at this conference said I had a really good vibe and she appreciated my energy in the room – and I was sitting in the back corner. Wow!

    Dorothea – I really hope your project works – it will probably make the international news here if it does. May the angels smile on you.

  150.  #150Dorothea on September 22, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Thank you. I believe it’s going to go great. Whenever I do this sort of thing, it always does:) It’ll be my one last contribution as a paid staffer here. It sounds like you fight the good fight too! <3

  151.  #151Jacqueline on September 22, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    @ Dorothea – I wanna see the pix!!! where? you go girl that’s IS AMAZING….and kind of scary news, too…

    @ Brenda, Jonathon said don’t get fat, too….wth? so I’m wondering if it’s all about don’t DEVOLVE….maybe if you are already heavy when you meet them it is okay? There was a fat lady who was unemployed featured on laid off older workers can’t get jobs back….and all the comments were on her being fat, not old. that is so wrong, and btw, if you’re POOR, you’re likely fat – eating fresh is a huge financial challenge, and organic? puhleeze…

    I feel happy people are discussing it with you….

  152.  #152Jacqueline on September 22, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    @ Daria, did you answer my post about what it feels like to be called out by a man on your weight? or why anyone thinks they have the right to call you out on your body/appearance? and if your mom had been through menopause?

    that would be helpful, to know more about the menopause thing….

  153.  #153Jacqueline on September 22, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    ps. Brenda, I so felt you last night – that was awful, and the biggest looser? only like 2 of them have stayed slim – they were actually going to offer a prize for people keeping it off once they got it off last time I read….

    you just be proud of you, okay? I am!!!


  154.  #154Jennifer on September 22, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    Brenda. #132.
    I was so stunned I didn’t think of that at the time. It’s already been established that I have a huge crush on him and I don’t think I could be casual about sleeping with him.
    I just can’t shake the feeling that he’s doing it (the orgasm talk, the extra touching etc) to push my buttons cause it makes him feel powerful. Maybe that’s my mirror..I assume men aren’t interested in my generally, certainly not overtly sexually.
    I wish that would go away.
    I feel triggered.
    I feel invisible saying that. I like I’m wall paper.
    I feel sad saying that.
    I feel heavy in my chest saying that.
    Men aren’t interested in me generally, certainly not overtly sexually….where did you come from little thought?
    Maybe if I’m the only woman in the room?
    Cause I certainly cant’ “compete” with other women?
    Gawd i feel sick of feeling like shit all the time.
    I feel annoyed.
    Logical NV says “but that’s been your experience….remember the guy who asked where the pretty girl was?”
    Booo Hisss.
    I’m tired of logical NV. Be quiet, you. Shut it.
    I feel afraid of what would happen if I asked him to provide those things.
    Like he’s feigning intrest in me as some sort of cruel joke.
    I feel deflated.
    Is deflated a feeling?
    This sucks.
    I’m gonna dance with my nephew.

  155.  #155Lucy on September 22, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    Daria, thanks. The thing that hit me more was the idea of doing “better.”

    “I am too chicken to call you. I find you attractive and am apt to think you can probably do better. Not a lack of confidence just an overwhelming sense of reality.”

    I guess it hit me because, since the HBR call, I’ve been more aware of how I often unconsciously put men into categories of “not good enough for me” or “too good for me” (very few in that significant category). And I want to get away from that.

    So I answered him, “I feel kinda sad reading that. To me there is no ‘better’ — just a matter of who seems to be a good match overall.”

    (and in my mind, he and I are not a good match.)

    He answered, “Then I’ll put that aside cause I think you are a good match. So far. I’ve had fun chatting with you.”

    Uh-oh. I don’t think we’re a good match. I didn’t respond.

    So he texts, ” The disappearing girl trick. By Lucy wutzername.”

    Hehe. I feel kinda bad. (Guilty?)

    I think I feel guilty a lot. Maybe sometimes it is deserved. Brenda said I am a natural flirt (or something to that effect).

    And it seems I “lead men on” without trying to.

    I want to be safe for men.

  156.  #156Brenda on September 22, 2010 at 3:14 pm


    60 YEARS?!?! They need to get a clue. That’s insane.

  157.  #157Brenda on September 22, 2010 at 3:16 pm


    RE: #143 – 5K is 3.2 miles.

  158.  #158Brenda on September 22, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    And 15K is 9.3 miles. I ran that two years in a row in 1992-1993 at the Tulsa Run. I was in the best shape of my life. Now I’m in the worst shape.

    I read the intro and ending of Women Food and God and it was excellent! I’m going to get a copy!

  159.  #159Dorothea on September 22, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    yeah. i know people who were raped, molested as children, robbed at gun point, or lost a loved one to a drug someone sold them that killed them, and NONE of their victimizers faced 60 years in federal prison.

    i attended the motions hearing this morning, and the US attorneys made it very clear that they have a great deal of contempt for medical marijuana and the majority of voters who amended it into our state constitution. They kept saying it has no medical value. Tell that to the AIDS and cancer patients, war survivors, and formerly opiate dependent pain patients who rely on medical marijuana just to get through the day.

    Thanks to everyone for asking and commenting about what I worked on today:) I would like to leave it there because I don’t want to soapbox on siren island too much.

  160.  #160Brenda on September 22, 2010 at 3:25 pm


    Hugs to you! Sink into the negative feelings…and I hope you can open yourself up to receive his attention…


  161.  #161Jennifer on September 22, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    Why? I know right now he doesn’t wanna keep me.
    To practice on?
    I’m too scared to practice.
    I feel stuck
    I feel behind the brick wall
    I feel scratchy (which is what I call call it when I’m spoiling for a fight cause I really wanna do it.)
    I feel tense in my back.
    I feel swollen all over.
    I feel sore in my legs.

  162.  #162Frenchkitty on September 22, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    Dorothea! I think you are so cool! Carry on campaigning!

    60 years for growing grass?!!! Hmmm… the Land of the Free….

  163.  #163Lizzie on September 22, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    Brenda – is it???? Oh! how wonderful – I am going farther than I thought 🙂 I am so thrilled, my knee lasted 800m tonight at a nice slow speed -then I walked the rest. I also do stairs – but I can only go up not down. I live at the foot of a cliff and there are 119 stairs to the top. When my knee worked, I would do the stairs 5 times – oh wow talk about a lung exploding experience. now I do once up, then the reservoir stairs – another 48, and then 5X 800m – then into the “village” for a Starbucks and a 1km walk home. Takes 90 min. Love it.

  164.  #164Dorothea on September 22, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    I feel triggered sad jealous hearing about women with time to run. All I do is work work work

    Soon, however, I will not have to work all of the time!

    I feel terrified that I will find something else to fill my time that won’t leave healthy me time still.

    I feel really f*cking scared right now ahhhhhhh

  165.  #165Lizzie on September 22, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    Dorothea, we all go through phases. On average I work between 60 and 85 hours a week, every week. I am a solo single mom and self employed (my whole working life). I work the way I do because:
    1) I love what I do
    2) I get to create stuff that other people feel is as important as I feel
    3) I am frightfully broke and need to continue to make tracks on the debt load I carry and as the debt is getting into the kind of numbers most humans find somewhat manageable, my stress level is shifting – yeah!!!
    4) I have goals – I need to be able to provide for my kids – one is a competitive swimmer and she actually has potential as well both kids have “issues” so I need to provide additional supports for them to be the fabulous young people they are; I would like to be out of debt so that I might qualify for a mortgage; and I am old so I need to be able to provide for my living a long inspired life.
    5) I live with a level of stress that would knock any normal human into a grave
    6) my kids in no way feel neglected

    I have been accused so many times of being a workaholic ; unbalanced; insane; etc etc. some people have actually been mean about it. Men who come into my life think I am completely nuts and become angry. It triggers upsetting feelings in me. I feel so judged and un-accepted and so terribly misunderstood. Like WTF! who is going to pay off the debt?? who is going to provide for my kids???? who is going to hold it all??? not them. And I have stuff to invent, a world to change, a life to hold precious! Like come on!! I have potential!!

    So this is the way I look at it – it is all about balance. Sometimes I need to give a great deal in one area of my life and the others are in holding pattern. When the area of focus is in manageable space, I shift my focus to another area. It is all in the ebb and flow. Everything gets attended to, it just might not look like what everyone else is doing, but it works for me and the people who are important to me either help or understand what I am up to.

    Since I have kids, my health has a “reason”. Even when I am speeding on the highway, I pay attention and slow down because my kids can’t afford to loose me. We can metaphor that quite easily: On the highway of my life, on a straight away, I might speed it up a bit, then I have a little snap-to! and realize that I need to slow down a bit and enjoy the ride.

    Keep in mind that the body and soul can not do all-nighters too many nights in a row, you will collapse. So plan it out, know what is ahead in terms of the demands, plan to double that, and build in self-care along the way. Give yourself permission to self-care.

  166.  #166Daria on September 22, 2010 at 6:01 pm

    Lucy – actually flirting is a gift to men. if i were u i would immediatel look at the “sometimes i deserve it belief” and give myself lots of hugs and do ask and receive on this belief

    repeat out loud.

    a part of my being already knows that i no longer need to believe that sometimes i deserve to feel guilty


    and that part of my being is willing to inform the rest of me now

    it is now doing so with grace and ease

    my mind body and spirit are receiving the information

    information transfer is now complete

  167.  #167Daria on September 22, 2010 at 6:07 pm

    Jaqueline – I don’t really want to answer those questions …

    i feel a bit weird

  168.  #168Tina on September 22, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    I feel so tired from working all day 🙂 yeah thats what i did lol.

    Dorothea, I believe pot needs to be free 🙂 I dont smoke it but yeah if it works for some.

    A man is flirting with me 🙂 oooooooh. he is drawn to my super siren feminine energy 🙂 he touched my hand ok maybe it was an accident but yeah he touched it.

  169.  #169Jacqueline on September 22, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    Cool, Daria, no problem. Lizzie!! you are a super siren who does stairs, men and children. Wow, you go – my knees have just not quit hurting since I fell on them – what 2 years ago? I do 2 miles 2x a week and a one hour workout – which I thought was good.

    Brenda, that is amazing that you did that, and you know just start small, and feel better tonite, okay? I lost 65 pounds once and just doing 30 minutes of exercise was a big deal! Now, I’ve done 30+ minutes 3x/week for 23 years! Not to be skinny, but because I love the feeling of it. I love moving my body!

    Everyone have a great day –

    Dorothea I am still very proud of you and the work you do!

    Take care all,

  170.  #170Lucy on September 22, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    thx daria. i did what you suggested. i feel kinda confused about men getting angry when they find out i’m not as into them as they thought i was and in their words was being a “tease.”

  171.  #171Jacqueline on September 22, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    ps…I wrote about eft, tft and emdr….on blog today; if anyone wants to write about what Erika’s work felt like and compare that would be great, or just know more about where it came from.

    Nite, all….


  172.  #172Lizzie on September 22, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    I agree daria – flirting is a gift to men. It inspires them, helps them feel good about who they are, gives them a blast of positive energy, makes them feel valued as a human. Flirting is wonderfully life giving. And I feel wonderful giving this to men

  173.  #173Jennifer on September 22, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    I feel like emailing him. I feel like saying.
    I’m not coming to class tomorrow. I feel on edge, I feel pagan.
    I feel hypersenstized. I cannot guarantee my civilized behavour. Someone is gonna get molested.
    I feel like I’m gonna explode.
    Those two things you said would help? I’ll take both.
    My brain is fried.
    I feel no thinking.
    I feel too many nerve endings.

  174.  #174Lizzie on September 22, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    Jenn – wow this guy must be one serious hottie! pretty powerful effect…

  175.  #175Brenda on September 22, 2010 at 7:15 pm


    How do you feel towards Judo man? Can you be soft and unzip your heart around him? Can you behave? 🙂

  176.  #176Jennifer on September 22, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    feel towards him?
    I feel too many nerve endings. Friggin Equinox.
    I feel outta control.
    Soft? Dunno….
    Behave? Probably not.
    I was born red headed.
    Feel mistrustful.
    Can’t think
    Can’t reason.
    Can’t predict
    Can’t control.

  177.  #177Daria on September 22, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    “i feel kinda confused about men getting angry when they find out i’m not as into them as they thought i was and in their words was being a “tease.””

    Lucy – how does it feel to be called a tease? i personally feel triggered by this word and i don’t like it.

    is calling me a tease a behavior i want from a man? UMM NO

    so i can just reject it…

    “ohhh… that feels really weird and awful … im feeling really furious”

    (otherwise you’d have to have sex with every man who wants to, and well… thats not practical)

  178.  #178Daria on September 22, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    Jennifer – i would just lean back and practice smiling at him and holding eye contact, and paying attention to MY feelings … as i get the “i’m gonna pass out from my intense attraction feeling” when i’m around him

  179.  #179Jennifer on September 22, 2010 at 7:40 pm

    I don’t understand.

  180.  #180Jennifer on September 22, 2010 at 7:45 pm

    oh wait.
    Just focus on the feelings of intense attraction?
    I can’t do that and hold eye contact.

  181.  #181Lucy on September 22, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    yeah, i told this guy it feels bad being called a tease … but i guess it made me question my behavior – b/c other guys have had similar reactions. i thought we were just flirting and having fun but they get mad when i won’t go out with them or want to stop the fun…so then i feel bad about flirting – they seem to take it as a promise of more to come…. and then i feel like i musta done something wrong…

  182.  #182Daria on September 22, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    Jennifer – start with just eye contact and smiling, and periodically FEEL on your inner tummy with your minds attention – well thats what i do

  183.  #183kim on September 22, 2010 at 9:21 pm

    Dear Rori,

    I have one question. If you have not heard from a man for more than three weeks, how would you go about contacting a man in order to use the tools you give on him.

    Thank you,

  184.  #184Daria on September 22, 2010 at 9:31 pm

    I did it! i worked out again! thanks to the hypnosis…

    i was soooo not feeling like starting earlier…


    my life is gonna change with this hynosis thingy
    big time

  185.  #185Daria on September 22, 2010 at 10:05 pm

    Brenda MacIntyre – Medicine Song Woman:

    When you talk to friends and colleagues today, listen to your own voice with love and gratitude.

  186.  #186Daria on September 22, 2010 at 10:27 pm

    ohhh i feel so good… i did another hypnosis, about my favorite thing about myself…

    guess what it was my commitment to loving myself

    i saw myself smiling happy, consistently hugging the lil parts of myself, like bunnies and lil bears

    and interacting with people

    feeling blisss,

    like its just me receiving reciving

    ohh it felt lovelg

  187.  #187healy on September 22, 2010 at 10:52 pm

    Good for you, Lizzie!! It sounds like you are doing absolutely fabulously staying in your girl energy, and having fun! They are getting in line to cater to you!!

  188.  #188Ragnell on September 23, 2010 at 12:47 am

    I feel very confused.

    There is this guy who I have gone on date since January. We were not dating exclusively but neither of us explicitly mentioned dating or not dating someone else.

    I told him I loved him and I pointed out that we had been spending a lot of time alone together. I also pointed out that I liked how he reacted when I talked or smiled to any other man. He seemed protective of me and a good kind of jealous when that happened.

    But he said I was not the only girl he was dating. And it’s ok, because I’m circular dating too.

    The problem is that he’s making me compete against this other girl or any other potential girls he may be going out with. He’s telling me that he likes this other girl more than he likes me. He says that he is sexually attracted to her. And he mentioned that he likes her because she’s more “european” than me.

    Then, despite saying that, he went and looked for me at my office the week after that. He talked about something he had acquired and wanted me to see, and that he had pictures, and asked if he had shown the pictures before, and I said no. Then he said he would send it to me.

    Only that, when opening the mail where those pictures were supposed to be, I found out he had sent me a picture of him with the other girl instead. He was there while I opened it. He swore it was a mistake.

    I said “Isn’t that enough? Why did you want me to see that? Do you really have to come here, to my workplace, to humiliate me? You don’t need to push me away like that. I get it. You’ve got someone else. Now leave me alone.”

    The problem is that he won’t leave me alone. I don’t want someone who wants someone else. I don’t like that he’s making me feel like I need to be better than this girl. (And, by the way, I feel more classy and refined than the girl in the picture, and I find his assessment of her race to be totally wrong.) But I think it’s petty of him to do things like that, whether or not he meant to make “a mistake”.

  189.  #189Jackie on September 23, 2010 at 2:20 am


    that guy sounds as if he needs you to be on edge and worried, sounds like he’s playing games, and cruel games, trying to make you feel less than.

    I have been with a man 8 years, we have lived togeather for 3 months. I feel I must have pushed him into it, although he made his own decision, becouse he knew he would loose me, as I wanted a secure long lasting relationship….thats not what Ive got. I know he wants to leave, he hasnt said so, as he doest want to be the bad guy, but brings problems to the relationship, he hasnt spoken to me for 4 days over a small incedent. Im trying to lean back and be open but finding it difficult. He has to give up his flat next month and I feel he’s looking for any excuse not to. I feel awful, i know I should confrunt/talk, say how I feel, but Im scared becouse I start a new job in 4 weeks, I have no money, having just been in uni for 3 years and Im scared ill loose my house and not be able to make it untill I get paid, I feel like a prostitute. I feel so angry with him and myself, Ive been clinging on financialy for months and can see the end game, Ive got to get there for myself and my daughter. I feel so angry with myself for putting up with his bad treatment becouse at this time I am financialy powerless. Ive loved this man for so long and I dont know what I feel about him anymore

  190.  #190Jennifer on September 23, 2010 at 3:39 am

    Eye Contact…smiling. This is my focus. You can DO it.

  191.  #191Jennifer on September 23, 2010 at 3:58 am


    This is what I’m blaming my brain fog on…..it wasnt’ so hot in 1991 either.

  192.  #192BarbinOz on September 23, 2010 at 4:01 am

    I am not getting this……..if you meet a guy online or offline who promises so much and delivers so little, is this about HIM or about YOU and what you attract?

  193.  #193BarbinOz on September 23, 2010 at 4:55 am

    And PLEASE don’t be so dismissive to those of us who live such insular not able to meet eligible men in our everyday lives………well ya know Internet dating isn’t about desperate women, it’s just another avenue for those of us unable to find another way, not all of us are confident enough or young enough to rock up to bars/restaurants/nightclubs on are ownesome……….

  194.  #194BarbinOz on September 23, 2010 at 5:00 am

    And I FEEL a bit pissed off here that some people think they are so freaking high and mighty that they are like………no no no, I will not do the Internet dating thing and like they are looking down at us that do……….well maybe we don’t all have the opportunities that others do to meet new people and this is just another avenue………..

  195.  #195BarbinOz on September 23, 2010 at 5:05 am

    OK doing a very brave Daria thing here for me……..

    I feel angry that some people, OK I will say Ericka and that is HUGE for me, would be sooo effing dismissive of people on Internet dating sites………..like we are somehow inferior to her

  196.  #196BarbinOz on September 23, 2010 at 5:13 am

    Erica, maybe you are lucky and you have all kinds of avenues and ways of meeting people, I saw one of your EFT youtubes you are probably younger than my kids, say under 38, so don’t take this wrong……………we all have to do what we have to do………..if you are meeting and greeting LOTS of eligible men on a daily basis that is fantastic……but not everybody is doing that, and I do FEEL you are being very dismissive of people who are looking to find love online, maybe we will never find it, and hey I know of at least 3 couples who found marriage online so hey lets not be so dismissive of it………..horses for courses……….

  197.  #197Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 5:43 am

    Hi Barb!

    I’ll just respond from my perspective. I’ve done a lot of online dating and found few quality men. I think it is entirely possible to meet a quality man thru the internet. I have done a lot of online dating, and my experience has been that the more you have to pay for a dating site, and the better a reputation it has, the better chance there is for quality men to be on there. But we are quality women and we are on there, so that proves it’s possible to meet quality men!

    I myself have just about given up on it. My biggest issue has been one scammer after another preying on me. They post phoney pictures and tell lies, and when you get to know them, they make up stories about needing money. And most of them are really in Africa, not where they claim to be.

    I wish you the best!

  198.  #198Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 7:55 am

    Dear full moon and immediately imminent menstruation.
    What the f*ck, mang.

    I want to riff about how I feel before I get started with work today, to kind of clear my emotional platter, but I feel numb to my feelings. I let some tears gently run out of my eyes today for about 10 or 15 seconds.

    On one hand, I feel good that this month’s onslaught of pre menstrual hormones has not been as hardcore as months past. No anxiety or panic attacks. Only 1 episode of temperfreakout. Huge improvement.

    At the same time, I feel lost in a fog after arriving to a brick wall and not being able to find my way around it.

    I feel weird that I can’t identify my feelings.


    I guess I just feel tightened up in my thorax. What else? Ok, physical feelings. I feel heaviness in my lower body, like I have to poop (sorry for sharing). I feel grimy and crusty on my face, and damp under my arms. I feel hairy. I want to go home.

    What does wanting to go home feel like? It feels like running away to safety, except it feels like anxiety too because I know once I get home I will still be there with my thoughts and feelings, so it’s really no escape at all.

    I do not like this. Poo.

  199.  #199Renee on September 23, 2010 at 7:55 am

    I am feeling self-conscious, kind of annoyed and unmotivated…I’ve just made it 38 hours without smoking and I should be feeling really good, but instead, I’m feeling self-conscious because I sent Blondie a pic of me with bare shoulders and kind of a hammy, blow-you-a-kiss expression on my face and he hasn’t responded…I now feel I’ve overfunctioned and I’m screwing things up.

    I wasn’t sure whether it was a decent pic or not, so I sent it to an old boyfriend of mine (who incidentally, contacted me last night out of the blue just on a friendship basis) and asked him what he thought of the pic and he rated it a 4!!! Ugh!! He said I was waaaaay more attractive than that pic showed, but I have a hard time determining whether pics of me are good or bad (they all just look like me to me).

    So after I didn’t hear from Blondie for 2.5 hrs, I sent him another txt that said “Btw — that pic was just a hammy, make-u-smile-cause-I’m-being-silly pic, not a I’m-seriously-trying-to-be-sexy-pic, but still no reponse. Now I feel like such a dumba$$…it’s conceivable that he has meetings all morning and just hasn’t had a minute to check his txts, but it’s unlikely.

    To add to my self-conscious feelings, he came over to my house directly from the airport yesterday to surprise me — I hate that!!! I had dirty hair and looked like crap!!! He said I was still beutiful, but I seriously think things are heading down the toilet…and this after he insisted on meeting my parents and me meeting his.

    I don’t know how I’ve managed to screw up a relationship where the man absolutely adored me, but it’s looking like that’s what I’ve done…if he doesn’t get back with me by lunchtime, I quit. I just quit men and I’m done trying. Grrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  200.  #200life_is_too_short_to... on September 23, 2010 at 8:02 am

    dear Ragnell,

    Get clear with yourself if you really do want this guy to leave you alone or not.

    If you truly want him to leave you alone, you won’t respond to anything he says or does.

    Me and LD man were trapped in the “come here, go away” game. I didn’t care what kind of attention i was getting, i would accept any attention from him.

    That has changed drastically, thanks to the work i have been doing with Rori tools, among other things, and these blogs.

    He had also set up a competition, between me and other women, probably because when i met him i told him details about the other guy i was starting to see, and he probably saw that as me setting up a competition.

    So, that was a mirror for me.

    Anyway, my advice is to get really clear on what you truly feel and go from there.


  201.  #201life_is_too_short_to... on September 23, 2010 at 8:07 am

    Had a convo with a guy from POF last night on the phone. It was fun and pleasant, feels like there could be the potential for a spark, i don’t know yet. am meeting him today for lunch. planning on having a good time regardless.

    My interactions with people in general have become so much more fun and rewarding, when I am focusing on just taking care of myself, not overfunctioning, leaning back.

    LD man texted another I miss this and that message right after i was done talking to the other guy. It’s like they know or something.


  202.  #202Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 8:24 am

    RENEE! Omg i have done the same thing. Sent pics to guys who were really into me but got no response.

    It will be okay though. Just lean back. Imagine that you blessed him with a gift of your beautiful self in picture form. Go about your life. Wait for him to contact you. 🙂 What do you think?

    I quit smoking and then picked it up again in the name of stress relief.

  203.  #203Renee on September 23, 2010 at 8:37 am

    Dorothea, I don’t know what to think…last night (early in the evening) he told me he wanted to call me later because he had something from the internet he wanted to read me (I think it was an astrology thing) and ended up not calling after all…we msged a little back and forth, a bit about my quitting smoking, but I felt him backing off a little at that point…I had been a little irritable last night because of the smoking thing, so I thought I’d show him what a great mood I was in this morning by sending him a “blow you a kiss” pic, but his lack of reponse is so loud right now…especially when you consider all the stuff he said to me yesterday…he was all about me and our future together and all that crap and now — poof! He’s disappeared? I realize I leaned forward and I now wish I hadn’t done that, but my God, was it really enough to run him off? I swear I’m so frustrated I don’t know whether to cry or just join a convent!!!! How can someone go from liking you that much 10 hrs ago to not even writing you back when nothing major has happened?

  204.  #204Renee on September 23, 2010 at 8:39 am

    I could easily pick up smoking again this minute, but it’s been almost 39 hours, and I figure if I can make it 3 days, I’ll have it licked (that’s what I’m telling myself anyway…I’m also telling myself that if I really want to smoke this Saturday night, I can…mostly to make the “quitting” part not seem so final…if I think of just doing it “for now”, it seems much more manageable…that may make no sense to anyone else, but it’s a ninja mind trick I’m playing on myself at the moment…

  205.  #205Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 9:00 am

    Renee: Take a deep breath sista. I feel you, and I also know how my body reacted when I quit smoking. (Can you say CRAZY?!? 🙂 ) Time to do some nice stuff for Renee. Take a bath, get a manicure (no more smoky hands = nice nails), whatever it is that feels good. I feel positive Blondie will get back to you. Lean back, mentally and physically.

  206.  #206Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 9:02 am

    Dorothea: ditto picking up bad habits again. Quit for 7 months but this month… 🙁

  207.  #207Feeling on September 23, 2010 at 9:07 am

    AUGH! Renee, I just typed a LOONGG answer to you and my computer hiccuped and I lost it all!

    OK… here’s the short summary! Men process so differently. My guy will do something like what just happened to you, and I’ll feel so horrible and then find out that he was “missing me and thinking of me all day!” And I want to scream “Then why didn’t you let me know!”

    I’m learning to trust the ebb and flow … the dancing close and moving away … it’s all part of the mystery.

    You were honest and vulnerable last night about your smoking and that is brave and attractive. Now be confident in the connection that was there yesterday. You are right – it doesn’t just go away over night! Find fun and creative things to do today and give him space to miss you and wonder what you’re up to.

    Hugs! And congratulations on 39 hours! I’m so proud of you!

  208.  #208Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 9:40 am

    reneeeeeee, girl we got your back!

    if it were me, i would just lean back. i don’t want you to analyze what his actions MEAN right now.

    actually, that’s a lie. if it were me i would be freaking out too. but we can pretend like i always do things right, right? hehe

  209.  #209Renee on September 23, 2010 at 9:42 am

    Feeling, thank you for your response, but the fact that I sent him 2 txt msgs this morning and the only word I’ve gotten back from him was a one word reply to a joke I emailed him yesterday morning is speaking volumes right now…

    It would be one thing if he just hadn’t messaged me this morning…that would be unusual, but not unheard of…the fact that he hasn’t written me back at all? No…something’s going on and it’s driving me nuts.

    I haven’t really known him (or been into him) long enough for this to really hurt (if he is blowing me off), but it definitely is a blow to my ego. More than anything, though, it’s genuinely puzzling…wtf happened?

  210.  #210Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 9:45 am

    renee, girl, with all due respect i think you are jumping to conclusions. If a week had passed and you stopped hearing from him, THAT would speak volumes. This seems a little diff to me. I like what siena says about giving him the gift of missing you.

    Also keep in mind that nicotine withdrawal and the sudden elimination of a long-established habit/routine are compounding your feelings. magnifying them times a billion.

  211.  #211Renee on September 23, 2010 at 9:45 am

    The other part of the puzzle is why he would even respond to the stupid email joke I sent him yesterday morning at this point? He just wrote “Yes!” in response, but why even write that if he can’t be bothered to txt me back?

    Dorothea, thank you for saying you’ve got my back. I’m really thankful to have the support of the blog members right now, or I most certainly would be running across the street to the convenience store and stocking up on cigarettes!! And even though I know I need to just lean back, it feels good knowing I’m not the only one who’d be freaking out right about now…so thank you for that.

  212.  #212Renee on September 23, 2010 at 9:48 am

    Dorothea — Oh, I know the nicotine withdrawel isn’t making this any easier, but who goes from being all over me 8 hrs ago to not even bothering to reply to a semi-naked pic I txted this morning? I can’t imagine that would feel good to anyone, nicotine withdrawel or not…

  213.  #213Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 9:52 am


    I relate to you so well when you panic, like I used to with Ryan. He’s not going to throw away a fabulous relationship because you leaned forward a time or two! Relaxxx! Take a chill pill! 🙂

    Go do something else for a little while. we-re talking about a matter of hours here, not days. That passion juice is racing thru your veins…along with feening for nicotine. You’re doing great! Quit harshing on yourself!

  214.  #214Renee on September 23, 2010 at 9:52 am

    Shannon — Are you saying you picked up smoking again this month? What knocked you off the wagon?

    I quit once before a few years ago and did great for 6 months…I mean I truly only thought about them on rare occasions. Then I had yet another falling out with a man, and I was in a serious funk and picked up smoking “just for the day”, which led to full fledged being a smoker again by the next day:-(.

    But if you quit before, you can certainly do it again!

  215.  #215Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 9:53 am

    I think I’m gonna copy my last message and read it every time I panic again in the future like that! 🙂 Give compassion to your weak parts!

  216.  #216Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 9:57 am

    no, it feels totally sh*tty, but it doesn’t MEAN anything. I think Rori would advise us not to read into it. How would it feel to put stock in the fact that he is usually all over you, and feeling goddessly confident that he will continue to be, rather than putting stock into the one exception right now that is making you feel insecure?

    What if we continue to characterize him as an attentive, fawning man, rather than labeling him as problematic?

    BTW I think regardless of what he may be thinking after getting your pic, leaning back is the antidote to making it “worse.” no more texting him! haha.

  217.  #217amy on September 23, 2010 at 9:57 am

    hi, everyone! i am usually more of a reader than a commenter here, but today i need some help from you wise women, if you don’t mind….:~)

    i’ve been seeing a wonderful man (jim) for about 3 months now. it got very serious very fast…all his doing…and by that i mean, he leaned WAYYYY forward all the time and i fell for him. hard. (much to my surprise.) in short order we had met each other’s children, parents, talked about the wedding ceremony and best month for it…etc. etc.

    i could bore you all with the details of what has transpired in the last couple of weeks or so, (just little things that feel different), or i can just say that he has all of a sudden leaned WAYYYY back. i plugged in my reconnect your relationship cds yesterday and started soaking in some rori goodness and of course realized some leaning forward i was doing without really realizing it. since i thought that since marriage was oh so on the table and we were exclusive that some give and take of calls, texts, travel (we live 2 hours apart) was ok now. maybe not.

    i will say that his work life has changed dramatically in the last 2 months…he has so much responsibility for so many people in his now much larger company that he stays in work mode much more now and is always tired. thus, i have given him the benefit of the doubt when things haven’t been as sweet and cozy and wonderful as they were not so very long ago. but now, after 2 days of nothing…something is up for sure.

    i feel like i need a speech. i’m just so not sure what it should say. i love this man. and i know he loves me. and i do not want to lose him and what we have. lately it feels like a push and pull from him, which is odd because he is SUCH a leader and decision maker. waffling doesn’t suit him at all. lol!

    so what do ya’ll think? how do i handle this? what do i say to pull him back in and show him what he could lose?

    thank you thank you thank you so much in advance!!


  218.  #218Renee on September 23, 2010 at 9:57 am

    OK — he just txted me a casual “Having lunch @ restaurantname. What r u up to?” Should I even respond right now, given his lack of reponse to me this morning?

  219.  #219Renee on September 23, 2010 at 9:58 am

    After all, both Rori and Even talk about “mirroring” and how we do what they do — if they wait 4 hours to txt us back, we wait 4 hours before we txt them back…but I don’t know…what do you think?

  220.  #220Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 10:02 am

    renee, i think he is sucking all your energy right now and it could be good to just text him later, or not even text at all, and wait for him to call.

    try leaning wayyy back and see what happens.

    i don’t want you to text him at all.

    let me be your puppet master! 😛

  221.  #221Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 10:02 am

    oh and that’s great that he texted you! we knew he would!

  222.  #222Renee on September 23, 2010 at 10:08 am

    Yah, Dorothea, I think you’re right…I’m not going to txt him back right now (if at all)…I’m not in a good frame of mind and he doesn’t deserve my attention at this point when he paid so little attention to me last night/this morning (which is totally out of character for him). Eff him! He can spend some time wondering what the hell I’m up to!!

  223.  #223Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 10:08 am

    Renee I hope you’re busy on the phone with someone or something and not texting him instead of posting here.

    or running across the street

    i wish i could sit there with you today, and be your not smoking buddy. and not leaning forward buddy

  224.  #224Daisy on September 23, 2010 at 10:11 am

    I had a dream about being around my patna white boy d and guywhohadababy. It felt like really being there.

    It feels really good and heartwarming when guywhohadababy asks a question… Somehow I feel warm and safe and loved. He has this skill… With other people too… He’ll just ask what u think about a newspaper article and it feels like being seen, like someone wants to know the real you.

    I want this skill, thank you angels.

  225.  #225Ragnell on September 23, 2010 at 10:12 am


    Thanks a lot for reading and responding. Yes, indeed, I think the games are cruel. I also think that he chose a wrong place to play them: our workplace. He is a professor at a school where I am also teaching for this term (but we were friends before that.) I hate that he tries to make me feel insecure in my workspace.

    The good thing is that I am surrounded here by people who care for me and respect me. This is a place where I feel good being both masculine and feminine: acting/showing initiative/remaining strong and receiving/listening/showing vulnerability is hard. As a professor, I have to do both: keep my students engaged and interested and maintaining the authority to lead and guide them.

    And this is a job that reminds me of how much I’m worth. It’s rewarding, in a sense.

    I don’t want this environment and this safety to be threatened.

    Please also stay strong and don’t let a man threaten the spaces where you feel safe. How do you feel having your man near you? Maybe because he’s with you you no longer feel him coming because he’s already there. Maybe he needs to return to a place of his own.

  226.  #226Ragnell on September 23, 2010 at 10:17 am

    life_is_too_short_to… ,

    I am confused. I think I need him to leave me alone for a while. I don’t want to end my friendship with him completely and I don’t want to think of myself as his victim.

  227.  #227Renee on September 23, 2010 at 10:17 am

    Dorothea — I’m busy checking my Match accound and doing some online shopping…I’m going to try really hard not to txt him back at all. That’s really unlike me (or at least, unlike what I’ve done in the past), so I hope my results are different as well…

    Thank you for caring about me today…I know I’m a little grumpy and feeling needy at the moment…I would take a ton of male attention right now if it happened my way today (or a massage, that would be nice) but I’ve been so caught up w/Blondie the past week and a half that I haven’t really written many people back…now trying to dig myself out of the dating hole I’ve dug for myself by replying to a few emails…

  228.  #228Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 10:27 am

    Hehe, we posted our comments at the same time. If i had just leaned back with you, i would have been pleasantly rewarded and surprised. i’m making a mental note of this.

  229.  #229Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 10:30 am

    Renee/Dorothea: Not texting him feels like game playing to me. “He made me wait, so I’ll make him wait”.

    I’d say “Oh I feel happy hearing from you. Feeling a bit stressed out with nicotine withdrawal. Clean air feels good to breath though.”

    Or “I feel relieved to hear from you. Feeling antsy given my nicotine withdrawal and no comment on my pic. I know I shouldn’t expect that but I feel weird that you didn’t reply.”

  230.  #230Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 10:31 am

    Hi SHannon! I’m talking about not texting as a way of reclaiming your own energy. I saw renee’s comment about making him wait, and I think that IS game playing.

  231.  #231Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 10:35 am

    I like that: “I feel relieved to hear from you..” message

  232.  #232Renee on September 23, 2010 at 10:40 am

    I’m feeling judged for not wanting to txt him back right now…I know Rori says no game playing, but she also says that holding back on replying until you’re in a better frame of mind is perfectly fine too.

    Beyond that, though, I like the logic in the idea of “mirroring”…I know Evan Marc Katz talks about mirroring and I could have sworn Rori did too…in any event, Evan says if he waits 2 days to call you/txt you, you wait 2 days to call/txt him back and given the fact that I’m feeling like I’ve just overfunctioned, I think I’m due some leaning waaaaay back at the moment. I mean, what’s the difference between leaning way back and game playing? Can someone define that for me?

  233.  #233Daria on September 23, 2010 at 10:46 am

    Renee – no, Rori does NOT talk about mirroring

    game playing is when we’re doing something because of how it will affect the other person

    rather than how it will affect/feel to ourselves.

    this mirroring thing, to me, (done conciously, tho i do think i do it unconsciously sometimes) is something that would take a lot of effort and i think it could slip into game playing (strategizing) very easily

    i would either text him back with my real feelings…

    “ive been feeling so insecure… etc… and im feeling a lil angry, and just kinda confused…”


    wait until I feel better and feel like texting him and then text him back


    not text him at all

  234.  #234Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 10:58 am

    Renee: I like what Daria just wrote. The thing with me about waiting to text him back… I feel anxious in the waiting, like I’m watching the clock for some magical time to pass before I can write him back. That’s game playing to me.

    I’d definitely want time to get in a good mood where I wanted to reply. I’m just saying I wouldn’t “not” reply just because he took awhile to respond. Who knows… maybe he never got the picture. Is it possible he never even got it? I’m reading a lot of assumptions in what you wrote. I do that too! 🙂 So it feels good for me to be able to read the posts here and pick up on those assumptions. Helps me to practice catching them in my self talk.

    Not sure how Rori says it but basically I need to change the movie I’m playing in my head. I’m making it all up anyway.

    What if he’s asking “what you are up to?” because he wants to see your gorgeous kiss face at the restaurant for lunch? I much prefer that story than the one that he doesn’t like my picture.

    (((HUGS))) Hang in there girl! Routing for you Ms. Non-Smoker!!

  235.  #235Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 11:00 am

    Ugh. *blush*

    ROOTING for you! 🙂

  236.  #236Renee on September 23, 2010 at 11:11 am

    Hi Shannon — No, he got the picture, cause I sent him a follow up txt and that’s the one he replied to. If he hadn’t received the pic I referred to in my 2nd txt, he would have told me.

    He apparently didn’t like my pic (yes, making an assumption here) and that’s ok — he doesn’t have to like every pic of me, but making some reference to it would have been nice.

    I just don’t feel like txting him back right now…I feel like if I do, I’m teaching him that he can ignore me and still get my attention as soon as he gives me the smallest hint of attention himself…

    I’ve been thinking a lot about the ebook Evan wrote (Why He Disappeared) where he talks about mirroring and I find myself wishing I’d done more of that in the past…not like I have to do it every time, but especially in places like this where I feel uncertain about a man’s feelings/intentions. I still don’t get the difference between leaning way back and game playing…it seems to me, if you’re leaning way back, you’re not returning txts or waiting a while to do so (which I know Rori talks about), so I don’t see how that’s different from “game playing”.

  237.  #237Renee on September 23, 2010 at 11:20 am

    The truth is, I’m feeling self conscious because my ex-bf told me it was such a crappy pic of me and you add to that the fact that Blondie didn’t reply at all…it leads me to believe he thought the same of it. I would tell him I’m feeling self conscious about it, but that was the theme of yesterday since he dropped in unannounced and caught me with virtually no makeup and dirty hair. I don’t feel like I can play the “self-conscious” card again right now w/o just coming across as majorly insecure…I’m actually normally happy with my appearance, but that’s when I have makeup on and hair done.

  238.  #238Daria on September 23, 2010 at 11:25 am

    mybe itsa a good time to show your major insecurity feeling to him

    i always tell men i feel majorly insecure… heeh… i
    think – as Rori teaches – that its very attractive

  239.  #239Renee on September 23, 2010 at 11:31 am

    Daria, I appreciate what you’re saying, but I have to think of how I’d react if, the day after someone had already made a big deal out of being self-conscious, they then told me they were feeling majorly insecure…it would turn me off for sure.

    I know men and women are wired differently, but that just wouldn’t feel good to me to share that his lack of response made me feel insecure.

  240.  #240Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 11:35 am

    I am going to freak out and panic. So. Much. Work. I’d like to have a good cry, but when? Not now. Not later. Maybe in 2 weeks. My last day is in 15 days.

  241.  #241Daria on September 23, 2010 at 11:37 am

    Renee – i feel sad to hear that

    I know it feels scary, but men find vulnerability and our real feelings very attractive, and its the only thing that creates connection

    though some times you dont HAVE to share

    it WILL come up and affect future interactions and eventually it will be shared im sure

  242.  #242Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 11:47 am

    Renee — (((BIG HUG)))

    <3 Lucy

  243.  #243Renee on September 23, 2010 at 11:47 am

    The other thing that’s bothering me is that he told me yesterday (well he had told me before but reiterated yesterday) that he was a one woman man and that he had no inclination to date anyone else right now. (He knows I am free to date others.)

    Well, last night, after not having logged into his Match account for over a week, he logged in. If he doesn’t want to date others, why is he logging into his Match account and why is his profile still up? I’m started to feel like I’m getting jerked around here, but the last thing I want to do is ask him why he’s logging into Match…if he did that to me, that would feel like pressure, and I wouldn’t like that so I assume he wouldn’t like it either…

  244.  #244Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 11:53 am

    I feel terrified to meet any new guys from online.

    I have been telling them all I am taking a break from doing so

    …. but I just realized that I feel terrified.

    WH was the last new guy I met in person.

    Even this one man who knows all about WH and knows I’m still feeling bad about him and wants to meet me as a friend — at first I said yes, but now I just feel



  245.  #245Renee on September 23, 2010 at 11:54 am

    I think I’m going through major nicotine withdrawel…I just want to cry.

  246.  #246Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Renee, can you get to somewhere to cry?

  247.  #247Renee on September 23, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    Lucy — What are you afraid of, do you think? Is it that they’ll fall for you and you won’t fall for them, or is it that they’ll reject you if you end up liking them?

  248.  #248Daria on September 23, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    im feeling a bit triggered

    theres this one guy who’s been seeing me a lot, but sometimes i feel kinda anxious and uncomfortable around him (i get the impression that he’s insecure… but i’m practicing redirecting msyelf back to my feelings)

    so last time i saw him, he’s like, are you gonna call me?

    and i smiled and said …. mmmm.. and giggled… and then said maybe, and gave him a flirty look and a giggle as i went inside

    i “figured” this would come up again

    well he didnt call for awhile, and last nite he texted, i texted hi, he texted hi

    that was tthe end!!

    ok… that felt a bit weird, and im feeling jugemental, but i forgot about it

    then today, he called me, and im like HI! i felt happy to hear form him, but my phone was dying, so i was like, hey call me back my phone is dying

    so then i charged and waited for his call, which didn’t happen

    then i texted “hi! my phone had died”

    and he texted back “it’s ok, i figured thats what happend”

    so then still no call

    now i get a text from him “are you gonna call me back?”

    I would call him back, but im finding myself feeling turned off and judgemental and annoyed,

    and i don’t want to call back really

    i don’t want a man that doesn’t call me or “acts weird” is what im calling it

    what do you sirens think?

    whta is the message here?

  249.  #249Daria on September 23, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    i have no problem telling him i dont want to initiate calls with men…
    tho i haven’t told him that – and maybe that’s why he’s acting all weird is my guess , he doesn’t know why im not calling him


    the feeling i have right now is kinda judgemental and turned off

    i don’t want to “deal” with this

    i don’t want to have to baby a man

    i wouldn’t mind calling him BACK, but I DO mind what looks to me like playing games and being insecure and needy and weird – judgements

    im feeling kinda angry , like annoyed and turned off

    and i feel guilty telling him that

    im judging him as “too weak” and insecure to tell him that

  250.  #250Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    Both, I guess. That one or the other will happen. The first scenario happened so many times over the past year, and the second scenario happened only one time — with WH. But I feel afraid of both now.

    I feel major anxiety in my body just thinking about meeting someone new again.

  251.  #251Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    I kinda don’t really want to do online dating, because of this. I could just wait til I meet someone in “the real world.”

    But I do sometimes enjoy the attention I get from men online . . . and the emails and texts help a little with loneliness…

    so I don’t want to quit it completely…..

    but that is probably why men feel like I am leading them on……

    I feel sad, discouraged, scared, lonely.

  252.  #252lm on September 23, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    hmm…this happened to me and it ended up being a way for me to learn about warmth and openness with my guy. but we were long term and i was unconsciously REALLY MAD at him and not comfortable with myself. i think it attracted some anger and insecurity in him. once i processed my stuff he felt safe again. we had to go through a few ’rounds’ as rori says, but we both felt better after.

    this might have nothing to do with your situation, but i thought i’d share…

  253.  #253Jacqueline on September 23, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    @ Barb….I feel bad no one answered you but Brenda! I’ve already put my 2 cents in on the online and older thing both….but just wanted to say Hi, and I’ve missed you; I think what you’re feeling is a lot of the same frustration Lynne writes about on my blog. It can feel very defeating, but what choice do you have? Give up living? Smiling….so I hear you, and it is no fun!! but hope it will be fun, and even if it never is, hope you’ll get the results you want.

    Everyone…..all the advice sounds good to me, have a great day,


  254.  #254Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Daria, the guy you just wrote about sounds a lot like the guy I wrote about last night (?) who texted me that he was too chicken to call because he thinks I can “do better.”

    The scenarios you described here with your guy have happened over and over again with “my” guy — for months!!!!

  255.  #255Daria on September 23, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    thanks Im and Lucy for sharing

    after sitting here for awhile, i don’t really feel angry anymore, but i’m still feeling unsure of whether to call him

    i might just not, though, because i don’t want to call him and explain how i felt turned off and how im judging him

    id rather let him drop off, or else let him step up right now

    and now after saying that, i kinda feel like calling him, lol


    im just gonna go on about my day instead

  256.  #256Renee on September 23, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    Daria — It does sound like he’s insecure to me and is drawing a line in the sand where he’s decided it’s your turn to call him back.

    The thing I’m wondering is — are you really interested in this guy? If so, perhaps you could feel ok about calling him back since you’re not actually leaning forward but doing what he has requested. Or are you just practicing on him? If so, maybe you could stay leaned back and see what he does. What do you think?

  257.  #257Jacqueline on September 23, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    Re: the tools – I just reread the little booklet on listening at level two and Rori says “you’re simply over there, being with the other person.” Try it out by talking with yourself in the mirror.’

    Maybe this is the source of the confusion, but I thought I’d definitely read something almost exactly like mirroring about listening at level 2. Isn’t the feeling message with the what do you think a form of mirroring? Feeling curious about mirroring,


  258.  #258Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    I feel nauseous I think I am going to throw up
    I can’t do this
    I can’t do this
    it is so much work
    I am not good enough to do this
    I am not worthy of sleep because I am not good enough to get all this work done, so I don’t deserve to sleep until I have everything done.
    I haven’t been sleeping.

  259.  #259Renee on September 23, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    Barb — I’m coming at this online dating thing as a veteran of 10 years experience (yes, before it was cool, lol) and while I do think there are some “prize catches” who are too busy out there socializing and meeting women the old-fashioned way to bother with online dating, I think the majority of people feel crunched for time and resources and turn to it for the same reasons you and I have — it’s just easier than waiting around to meet someone in real life.

    Don’t get me wrong, when I go out, I tend to get a lot of looks from men and if I’m with women, I often get men coming up to me to hit on me, but I don’t have many women friends in this area (especially not ones who are free to go to happy hour frequently) so I guess I feel I have little choice but to date online if I want the best selection.

    I’ve tried going to Lowe’s or the big area bookstore, but finding men who were single and attractive was actually pretty difficult and just didn’t seem like a particularly time-efficient way of going about things.

    I know many women on here have expressed frustration wiht the quality of the men they’ve met online, but, like you, I refuse to believe only low quality men do online dating…I’ve met several men who would be deemed “catches” by most of society — business owners, former models, attractive professionals from a variety of walks of life. Are the majority of men I meet online such prizes? No, but neither are hte majority of men I meet in person, so I don’t feel like I’m at a disadvantage because I’m putting most of my dating eggs in the online basket.

  260.  #260Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    I agree, Renee. I think there are a lot of great guys online — I just have trouble finding the one for ME. I don’t really think it’s the “quality” of the men that’s the issue…. IMO.

  261.  #261Renee on September 23, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    Btw, Barb — how goes the smoking cessation?

  262.  #262Daria on September 23, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    interested or not, im always practicing.

    i feel a lil turned off by some of the stuff i judge as insecure, like this calling,

    and also how he sounds “down” on the phone

    but when i see him in person, i Like him! i feel attracted to him

    tho i do feel a lil judgemental and anxious around him

  263.  #263Laughing goddess on September 23, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    Hey Dorothea, I can relate to feeling overwhelmed. There are a few things that have helped me when feeling that way.

    One thing is, I’ll go through and prioritze what I really have to do. And I’ll focus on getting those things done first. I also look at what I can let go of…things that would be nice to have done but aren’t a complete necessity. And I look at what I can delegate.

    I also look at what limiting beliefs I have regarding the situation. Do I think that I have to do everything or can I trust that the world is going to keep spinning either way. Sometimes for me there are some control issues at play as well. Do I think I am the only one who can do these things good enough or can I trust that someone else can handle them. I have also found it helpful to talk to my boss or business partner and tell them I am feeling overwhelmed. Let them know that I really want to do a good job but it’s just too much. They often give good perspective on what is priority and what I can let go of.

    Another thing I do is a form of prayer asking for help from the universe. I will write in my journal what I would like to see happen…sort of like writing a story. I’ll start at the end of the time frame and work my way back. For example…

    “I see myself feeling happy and relieved at the end of the two weeks. I see myself sitting at my desk looking at all of my completed projects feeling rested and at peace. I see myself feeling happy and motivated and easy on myself. I see myself feeling rested and healthy and emotionally balanced.”

    I’ll usually go into specifics about the situation I’m in.

    I don’t know if any of this will help but I feel inspired to share because feeling overwhelmed with all I have to do has been a common theme in my life and something I’m really trying to let go of.

    Best wishes! And please don’t push yourself too hard. I believe that nothing is worth not caring for ourselves.

  264.  #264lm on September 23, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    renee 252:

    “perhaps you could feel ok about calling him back since you’re not actually leaning forward but doing what he has requested.”

    this is important, i think…

    with my guy i was resisting doing things he asked me to (‘call me’ and ‘make plans with me’) because he’d always done the asking and i felt scared i would be leaning forward. but he asked me, so i finally started to call more and ask him to hang out. then it evened itself out and he leaned forward again. i think he was feeling tired and insecure at the time.

    but i was so so so resistant. i was like rebelling against him…i think it was that i was secretly resentful about some things.

  265.  #265lm on September 23, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Lg 259:

    your post is awesome.

  266.  #266lm on September 23, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    also, daria…

    could you be feeling a little pulled on by him on the phone (like margaret paul describes)? that usually doesn’t feel very good.

  267.  #267lm on September 23, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    also, daria…

    could you be feeling a little pulled on by him on the phone (like margaret paul describes)? that usually doesn’t feel very good.

  268.  #268Renee on September 23, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    Ladies — thank you for letting me spam this board today! I’m closing in on 44 hours without smoking and have yet to actually bite anyone’s head off, lol. I’ve thought about it, obviously, but haven’t done it.

    I’m feeling a little better within myself about the thing with Blondie, but I don’t know if I could actually open my heart to him at this point if I were to write him back…I still feel like attacking him and I don’t want to do that, but I’d really like to tell him that I’m confused because he logged onto his Match account last night after he said he didn’t want to date other women.

  269.  #269Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Renee, glad you’re feeling a little better. We are all rooting for you.


  270.  #270Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Thank you, LG, your advice means a lot to me and I think I am going to do the thing with writing a story. I also talked to my boss at your advice just now and he helped me put priorities into perspective.

    I still feel f*ckin’ overwhelmed, but it feels good to get it off of my chest with those in power.

    My LI has also been cooking every night for me and taking care of me, and I feel so lucky to have his support. Literally all friends are all kind of MIA for one reason or another, so I feel kind of like I have my LI and this blog and no one else.

    Thanks LG

  271.  #271Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    holy crap, facebook is down. wonder if it finally got hacked/attacked! hahaha. i feel amused.

  272.  #272Renee on September 23, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    Holy crap is right, Dorothea! It’s not just malfunctioning, it’s completely offline! Wow — can’t wait to find out what’s behind that.

  273.  #273Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    I just had a weird thought suddenly speak to my mind: “I am exactly what WH needs.”

    Wishful thinking maybe….

    But it’s an improvement, because before my thoughts were: “I’m not good enough for WH” and “He doesn’t want someone like me.”

    I am exactly what he needs.

    That thought feels good.

  274.  #274Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    haha this is cute

  275.  #275Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    Facebook — maybe it’s a marketing gimmick for the movie that’s coming out about facebook. When is the premier, anyone know?

  276.  #276Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    lucy that would be pretty brilliant. however, i conduct business through facebook, and they are messin with my money!!!! hehe

  277.  #277Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 1:57 pm


    RE: #254 – About sleep, you come first. If it’s too much work, then just tell whoever, “I’m sorry, I can’t do all this by myself. I need sleep.” It is honoring your worth and value by getting a normal amount of sleep every night. No one can fault you for getting 8 hours of sleep. If they do, they’re an *sshole.

  278.  #278Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    Deadlines, Brenda. It’s them damn deadlines. Such is the world of electoral politics. I feel the whole weight of the nation on me. I don’t think anyone knows that I am the only person planning this massive thing, and it will have the polished look of the work of 100 paid staffers.

    Thank you for your comment, Brenda:) It feels good to have someone pay attention to me. I feel left in the dust with all this work.

  279.  #279Daria on September 23, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    im feeling sad and annoyed trying to call banks and get them to settle with me


    i feel sad

    i have thoughts that tell me I SUCK at this

    i love my feelings

  280.  #280Daria on September 23, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    facebook is back

  281.  #281Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 2:09 pm


    Can they bring some temps on board? Or advertise on bull boards? Getcha a cuppa coffee and lean back for a moment and say this mantra, “I resign myself as manager of the Universe!” It’s so freeing! You can only do what you can do. You’re welcome.

  282.  #282Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    no, no temps or bill boards. our budget it muy muy pequeno. those are two very good ideas tho!!

  283.  #283Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 2:13 pm


    I am with Shannon on her second feeling message she suggested. I’m going to depart from the path of feeling messages for a moment and be frank with you…please don’t take offense…I am only trying to help you, and sometimes I just can’t put the meaning I want into a feeling message…

    I think you are making way too big a deal over something minor.

    Rori says the only time you initiate is when you feel completely secure in his love. Last night, before you jumped off your bridge to follow him on match, you felt secure in his love, right? He was talking serious stuff with you, right? So you initiated this morning with a sweet kiss-blowing pic of yourself, followed by a text. No big deal. He didn’t respond. No big deal. Get over it. Don’t make a capital offense of it.

    Okay, I’m a girl again. And I care.

  284.  #284Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Ah, I know! They could hire Brenda to work from home part time temporarily! She is in favor! Hired!

  285.  #285Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 2:16 pm


    You are doing some healthy processing! Yes, WH needs you! You are the air he breathes! 🙂

    I hope you find someone to flirt with who you WANT to connect with you!

  286.  #286Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 2:19 pm


    On what happened with the texting then calling then phone dying with your man…I don’t see it as he’s insecure. I see it that maybe he took your phone dying as a message that you possibly aren’t interested in him. And even if he is insecure, we get insecure, so why fault him for that? If it were me, I would feel very comfortable to call him back. He wanted to talk with you.

  287.  #287Daria on September 23, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    Brenda – i felt turned off… i don’t want an insecure man, it feels icky

    and if a man takes my phone dying as a message that im not interested in him, i feel turned off


    i even texted him after to let him know it died

    what more can i do?

    im feeling turned off, and i haven’t answered him

    i’m just gonna let it go/


    im feeling super triggered to extreme anger talking to these banks about settling my debts

    i don’t know what this is about really

    im practicing feeling it,

    but whoa, i thought it was sadness till i tried some eft and maybe that lifted and i started screaming out the words and pounding my karate chop

    i feel so angry rite now

    it feels like my hands are hot and squeezed

    i love my hands being hot and squeezed

    and my mouth tooo

    this means big energy is moving to change my life for the better

    and that feels like

    shoulders droppin some

    i love my shoulders dropping

    and that feels like

    head dropping

    i love my head dropping

    and that feels like


    i love my defeat

    and that feels like

    sad smlie

    ilove my sad smile

    and that feeels like

    sightng and head to the side and tiredness

    i love my sighing and head to the side and tirednesss

  288.  #288Daria on September 23, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    i didn’t mean what more can i do?

    i meant… i feel annoyed and turned off… idont want to chase a man

  289.  #289Renee on September 23, 2010 at 2:31 pm


    I appreciate your advice. I feel misunderstood, though. I’m upset with him because of a combination of things he did:
    A. He said he was going to call and didn’t.
    B. He told me he wanted to date only me then proceeded to log onto Match for the 1st time in a week.
    C. He didn’t reply to my 2 txt message for like 5 hrs, even though I sent him a half naked picture of myself.

    I’m not saying he’s done anything that can’t be forgiven…I just think, after overfunctioning like I have, that the thing to do is to lean way back, especially since I can’t seem to open my heart to him at the moment given my nicotine withdrawel.

    Btw — I know you’ve had tons of advice on losing weight and you may not want to hear another voice, but here’s what I did to lose 65 pounds years ago…I first started by giving up one unhealthy habit — for me, that was drinking beer virtually every night (now I can’t stand the stuff!). After I got used to that, I gave up eating in between meals. After I got used to that, I started subsituting protein shakes for breakfast and lunch, and that’s where I am today — I don’t eat “regular” food during the day, but I eat whatever I want for dinner and I stay around 125 lbs. Now, this whole process took a couple of years for me (and I continued to make other improvements in my life at the same time) but I could see someone doing this over a period of months. It may be an unorthodox eating plan, but it’s been working for me for about 6 years and I can still eat whatever I want — at least once a day!

  290.  #290Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    brenda i am feeling like WOW about what you had to say to renee. that is what i was trying to say, but i fumble for the right words.

  291.  #291Daria on September 23, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    babysteps — im feeling shaky, sad, frustrated, and angry

    i love all my feelings

  292.  #292amy on September 23, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    If the relationship is as good as it sounds, he will most likely bring these things up on his own-eventually. The hard part for us as women though is- What do we do with the “falling for him” feelings without sabatoging the relationship? It seems we definitely have to wait for him to say something first. I’ve witnessed a couple of girlfriends who never had “the talk” with their guy (because they knew it would put pressure on him and ruin the relationship) have their feelings in front of me (a woman friend) instead while waiting for him to get closer. It seemed to work for both of my friends. It just kind of has this ‘uncontrollable feeling with no outlet’ kind of vibe to it. Maybe a rite of passage into ‘happy ever after’?

  293.  #293Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 2:40 pm


    Only you know the full feelings of the relationship. If you lean way back, I suppose it could only help. Thank you for taking my boy voice in stride. I want to be soft all the time, but sometimes I feel at a loss for words.

    Thanks a lot for your input on losing weight. I feel impressed at how everyone on here really gets it about weight loss. And I totally like how you did it and what you did and are doing. I cut out Pepsi and Coke a couple years ago, which were my #1 addiction. I occasionally have a sugar soda, but usually only one. I got scared the day in 1999 when my doctor said, “One day, your pancreas is just going to start working, and you are going to be a diabetic the rest of your life.” I knew he weren’t jokin cuz my Dad got diabetes like that, and eventually passed away in his 60s with diabetes-related complications. It still took me years from then to quit the addiction, but I did it with massive amounts of diet soda. Now I just have that when I go out, and the rest of the time I have stuff like water, juice, and powder mixes like SlimQuick to mix into the bottle of water that tastes like koolaid but it calorie free.

    I already am largely in the habit of protein shakes for breakfast, so that will be easy to extend it to lunch. I really like them and prefer them to something heavy for lunch. Thank you!

  294.  #294Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    renee i like your approach to maintaining weight loss. I like how you’re able to eat whatever you want for dinner. I wonder if this is healthy for me considering i am a high energy person and need fuel all day long.

  295.  #295Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 2:48 pm


    Protein shakes give you a lot of energy. Maybe you could supplement it with fruit. When I lost 90 lbs in the late 80s, I ate any amount of fruits and veggies, and the weight was pouring off me.

    My typical day was a half gallon of fruit smoothie, typically frozen bananas blended with fresh squeezed orange juice and frozen strawberries. Then salad and baked potato for dinner.

    Or 4 oranges for breakfast, 4 bananas for lunch, and vegetable stew for dinner. I used the book Fit for Life.

    I feel so frustrated I just can’t seem to get back in that mindset. I haven’t weighed myself, but I know I’m gaining cuz my pants are feeling tight. I started Medifast in March, and I lost 15 lbs in 2 weeks. I was in a really good emotional space for the most part cuz Ryan was regularly texting me. I totally wanted to continue and my blood sugar was level but I couldn’t afford it. It averages to about $2.40 for a 110 calorie meal. You eat 4 of them a day PLUS two “lean and green” meals, of meat and veggies. I wish so much I could go back to it. It really worked for me and I felt so good.

    What I am learning is that I can have all that I want and need. I just need to believe it. I believe I will have the money for Medifast. Thank You, God! I love You!

  296.  #296Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    I don’t want to eat fruit smoothies because all that sugar contributes to yeast problems in my body. Yucky yeast problems. What about vegetable shakes? yuck. lol

  297.  #297Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 2:51 pm


    I am sad you are struggling right now. I feel the same way when I deal with debt. It feels so hard sometimes. Here is what someone told me today when I asked about my reality being a “just a story”:

    It’s a story in the sense that you believe that it has to be one or the other. I’m not advocating skipping out on anything – on the contrary, I believe it’s totally necessary that YOU are taken care of first, and then any obligations you’ve made (to the landlord, doctor, etc.) are met.

    The story is that there’s not enough money to meet all your needs AND your wants. It’s simply not true. Money is totally and completely abundant. It’s a renewable resource that comes to those who are ready to receive it.

    But it will behave the way you think of it. If you think it’s stingy and not enough to go around, it will be exactly that.

    If you believe that there’s TONS of it, and woo it (in a sense), it will be romanced and come to you.

    I’m not saying this as pie-in-the-sky stuff. I’ve seen it with my own eyes! It happens to me, and I bless God when it does!

    I didn’t always feel this way. I was extremely poor for many years – even slept on the floor in one apt I could barely afford (with cockroaches, ewww!). But then I looked at people like Paris Hilton, who does NOTHING to have the money she does… or Donald Trump, who’s a boob… and I started to wonder what was so different between them and me.

    If anything, I believed I was a better person than they – and I couldn’t understand why God blessed them MORE than He blessed me. I just didn’t understand! Until I finally understood that He DOESN’T give money to those who deserve it. Money is neutral – meaning those who believe they can receive it… do! And it becomes EASY to receive it!

    It really is just a matter of perception.

    I like to imagine that we’re all in the same rainbow – the red people are on top, and the purple people are on the bottom. And in between are the oranges, the yellows, the greens and the blues.

    Reds make the most money, and purples the least. To move from one color to another, all you have to do is BELIEVE that you can become the color, and start to behave like you ARE that color.

  298.  #298Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    Haha I feel so frustrated – i am allergic to bananas and oranges give me bad stomach problems.

    *shakes fist in no particular direction*

  299.  #299BarbinOz on September 23, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    Brenda, Jacqueline and Renee

    I wrote a BIG reply and lost it on here….gggrrr……..

    Thanks for your support. Much as I DON’T want to do the online dating thing (been there, done that) I really have no other choice if I want to find a lifetime partner, its all very well flirting and practising with the taxi driver or the waiter, but meeting somebody like that is very unlikely.

    I don’t have many single friends up here either, and honestly I could maybe go to a restaurant for dinner on my own, but no way would I walk into a club or a bar……so that leaves me very little else to do other than online dating, and yes I really do know 3 couples who met on dating sites and are now married, albeit they are couples in their 30’s.

  300.  #300BarbinOz on September 23, 2010 at 2:56 pm


    Well done on the quit smoking thing, I lasted all of 3 days then ripped off the patch 🙁

  301.  #301Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 2:56 pm


    LOL! Maybe the lining of your tummick is covered with gunk? Have you ever done a digestive cleanse with an herbal product? Also, if you eat fruit on an empty tummick, you will find it doesn’t burn. It only takes 20 min to digest (45 min for nanners). Salad takes about 2 hrs to digest. Carbs about 4-5 hrs to digest, and meat and eggs 8 hrs to digest. So if you eat fruit on top of meat or eggs, it will get stuck in your tummick. By the time it enters your small intestine, to be absorbed by your blood stream, it is a rotting, putrifying mess.

    You’re welcome for the word picture!

  302.  #302Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 2:58 pm


    Go for it! It’s definitely worth the try. I met my exhusband online, and he remains amazed at the power of the internet. Talk about not being able to meet people…he met me from prison, surrounded by men.

  303.  #303Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    This is kinda weird, but when I was doing “Fit for Life”, my digestive system was FAST. It was totally healthy. One time I was at the shore and just indulged in fudge, something I didn’t usually have. My system went nuts on me and I almost instantly felt horrible. I had diarrhea about 20 min later. Dunno. Just telling you what happened.

  304.  #304Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    Thanks, Brenda. (281) 🙂

  305.  #305Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    Renee: If you’re going to make up stories, then so am I. 🙂

    And I’m saying this with complete love in my heart and a smile on my face.

    I bet Blondie thought you were hella cute with your dirty hair last night. He was probably excited to see you looking normal and not so “perfect”. Probably took the edge off for him. What a relief! And I bet he thought you were equally endearing and sexy in your picture today. A man who does not find us attractive would not be contacting us. I still think he was going to ask you out for lunch today.

    Maybe he logged onto Match to see how to shut down his profile.

    Maybe he got nervous about how much he likes you and set a time limit on how quickly he would respond so as not to give up how overwhelmed HE feels about you. Can you hear his thoughts? “I will not text her back immediately. I will wait until noon to text her today. Blondie, you’re losin’ it man. This chick is freakin’ awesome. Straighten up dude.”

    I love making up stories. And happy endings…

  306.  #306Jeannette on September 23, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    Girls, I know you havn’t heard from me in awhile. My b’friend proposed marriage to me about 10 days ago. My childhood sweetheart. He did it in front of his family. Anyway, the sad truth is…..we don’t have a pot to piss in. Seriously, I make okay money, but nothing outstanding saved…He is on disability from having so many health issues. I found out the other day that he’s not getting hardly any money in disability. Really disappointing. He has cancer and really I love him truly. But I’m just not sure what to do here. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

  307.  #307BarbinOz on September 23, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    Renee on Blondie,

    I read this on Tinque’s blog, soooo interesting about the way men think and seemingly “forget” us…….


  308.  #308Daria on September 23, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    so Dman just called me

    he now works closer to my town and wants to kick it…

    how does he get here? (told him)

    can he sneak in my room overnight ? (no)

    do i want to go to his house then and have my dad pick me up from the bart? (no)

    theres not enuf time to kick it then before your dad gets home (well, im down to kick it outside the house, i was thinking about riding my bike down town anyways)

    oh… well then yeah, do that when i get off in 2 hours and we’ll meet


    i feel a bit odd.

    i kinda feel like his friend right now. it would feel fun to kick it with a friend.

    i had a lil convo in my head right now with him, where i was like, ok we’re friends, and felt neutral, like even talked to him about his babymama and stuff

    and not feeling like having sex

    and then saying, if you want to be more then friends, then you’re gonna have to show me, and figure out how

    Then again, i have an image of us having sex in the park lol



    i wonder how this will go down? i feel curious?

  309.  #309Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    Haha! Dorothea isn’t working. Dorothea isn’t working. Lalalala! 15 more days baby! Woot woot!

  310.  #310Daria on September 23, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    Shannon !!! do one for meeee!!!

  311.  #311Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    *shakes fist in no particular direction*

    I can totally see this! I feel smiley!


  312.  #312BarbinOz on September 23, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    Brenda #298

    I have been doing Body For Life on and off for about 20 months now, I eat 5-6 small meals a day, firstly I can’t even eat a “normal” size meal now and often ask for a doggy bag if eating out, so I will make that one bought meal into 2, bring it home and later heat up the leftover bit in the microwave (saving money too :D)

    On Body For Life we have one free day where you can eat whatever you like!!! And I find now that if I have something like chips (french fries to you :)) or anything too fatty I have the same reaction as you did with the fudge.

    I like Renee’s way of having the 2 protein shakes a day and a normal size meal. I have a big container of Vanilla protein shake I use in my Body For Life programme, but not sure if that will be enough to keep me going for the day, aren’t you STARVING at the end of the day???

  313.  #313Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    Hi Jeannette,

    See #292! So you didn’t accept yet? I feel sad you are in such a hard position. Like she said in the movie, “Anna and the King” (I think), “If love were a choice, then who would choose such an exquisite pain?”

    I know that same pain, having dated and married a man in prison. And even tho we have been divorced 4 years, I still support him. Not because I legally have to, but because he remains one of my best friends, and I care. But it’s hard.

    And then last year, I dated Ryan on disability. I am in love with him even now, knowing that I may face life as the provider if I get serious with him.

    I think it really is a decision only you can make. And I am probably filled with too much custard cream in my soft heart to tell you anything other than follow your heart…and marry him. 🙂

    But I also believe in God, and I believe in miracles, and what looks supernatural to us is natural to God.

  314.  #314BarbinOz on September 23, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    Brenda #297

    Wow I didn’t know you were married to the guy in prison (Kenny?)!!

    I will be keeping away from that as it’s just like a long distance relationship and I already had one of those 🙁

  315.  #315Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 3:20 pm


    Awesome! Thank you!

  316.  #316Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    Daria, you my dear are a wonderful fairy princess with long flowing hair. You shimmer when you walk. You are a bridge among nations, able to converse and relate to all types of people. Your book of poetry is an instant hit and featured on Oprah. You travel all over the world (with your home base in Brazil). One day you are speaking at an event in Italy, and it’s there you meet him. The one that is no other. And he drives to pick you up and takes you fabulous places. He allows you to be Daria, the shimmering princess, the wonderful poet, the bridger of nations. None of that gets lost in him. He walks with you and helps to bring Daria out. Forever.

    The end.

  317.  #317Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 3:23 pm


    Awwwww! 🙂

  318.  #318BarbinOz on September 23, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    Brenda # 290

    Getting into the mindset.

    Did you watch those hypnosis type youtubes Daria posted? Well yesterday I watched one in the morning, the lady cant remember her name kept going on about fruit, etc. Anyway I got ready for work and thought no more about it, I drove to the local shops to get some cigs 🙁 and called in at the fruit shop and got some strawberries and 2 banana’s and you know I think I heard her voice in my head LOL!! I am going to search out Daria’s link again and listen some more and especially to the exercise one as I have lost my mojo with that, I joined up at a 24 hour gym about 5 weeks ago and have only been about 4 times 🙁

  319.  #319Daria on September 23, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    something that REALLY helps me lose weight quickly

    is having a shot of Apple cider vinegar 3 times a day (esp before meals)

    this worked really fast for a woman i told it to to lose the post baby weight

    in two weeks her midsection had slimmed drastically

    it seems to mostly burn fat from the belly also

  320.  #320Daria on September 23, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    BarbinOZ – isn’t it WILD!! it works!!!

  321.  #321Daria on September 23, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Shannon! haha WOW I FEEL LAUGHING AND HAPPY!!!!

    THANK YOU!!!!!


  322.  #322Daria on September 23, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    I love bridger of nations… tha tis one of my life dreams…

  323.  #323Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 3:27 pm


    I have had mostly long distance prison relationships in my life. It is a big reason why I am painfully lonely. I sure don’t recommend it.

    I felt thrilled when Ryan started dating me, and he lived 3 miles away! It was a total relief and joy! I felt sad when he and his parents moved 15 miles away last November. Now he told me he moved 1 hr 15 min away. I don’t know if he really did or if he told me that just to get me off his trail. I mean, I wasn’t looking for him. But who knows. He is known to lie, that’s all. I had to learn to look behind every word he said. I credit that to the schizophrenia, which I largely separate from him.

    Oh, that’s right, we were discussing long distance relationships. It is hell on earth loving someone and being separated by concrete and steel. Welcome to my world.

  324.  #324BarbinOz on September 23, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    #318 Brenda

    I am no expert here, but Brenda do you have a fear of intimacy? That’s what they say about people in LDR’s and I was in one myself and have wondered about that, am I afraid of intimacy after my ex-husband did the things he did?………….I mean your heart can ache and break just the same as if you lived with somebody every day……just thinking out loud here……

  325.  #325Daria on September 23, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    Brenda – i feel so triggered and ick and judge the stuff you write about Ryan as overly dramatic…

    it feels icky and i feel mistrustful,

    as if you’re looking to be better than me in a way, or just OVERING stuff to pull ‘poor me’ attention

    I don’t want to say that’s what you’re doing. That’s just how i get triggered by it…

    i feel curious about this

    it feels like a real turn off to me though

    i guess its mostly the judgements and blaming ,

    im not sure


  326.  #326BarbinOz on September 23, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    Daria #314

    How much apple cider vinegar should we have in a shot? Do you mix it with water?

    My midsection is the worst, I have a good shape otherwise, but the midriff section is not the best……..

    And thank you for the video youtubes, I intend watching them again, but don’t have time this morning as I am too busy posting on here 😀

    Can you please tell me the ladies name again……every little helps……

  327.  #327Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    wow jeannette, a proposal! you are such a goddess 🙂 I feel very happy for you just for being proposed to, even if you won’t want to accept.

  328.  #328Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    Daria, I would love to hear about your dreams. Or in Rori-speak, your “out the window”. Sometimes I get caught up in the conversations about the men in our lives, and I forget to see the wonderful Daria in front of me. I definitely see the bridger of nations thing with you. You seem to have so much range in your voice, your speaking, and your thoughts. Ability to relate to almost everyone here. I realize that feeling messages are universal but it’s more than that with you.

    It feels interesting to me how much I recalled about you as I was writing that. Normally I’m completely forgetful but I whipped that out in like 5 seconds. It was all “right there” when I was writing. 🙂

  329.  #329Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    Jeannette, my thoughts/feelings are that you are both managing to survive financially on your own — so why would it be any different to marry and share your lives together? If you love each other and want to be together . . . ?

    (And then work on manifesting more money anyway, which is what I am trying to do right now. hehe. 🙂 )


  330.  #330Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    Yeah, I can totally see Daria on Oprah. 🙂 I can see the whole vision. Lovely!

  331.  #331Jeannette on September 23, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    Brenda, I always appreciate what you say. He is a sweetheart for sure, I think he could get more in disability if he tried, does anyone know how that works? Is it based on your former income? I would like to know.

  332.  #332Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    disability payments are based on how much you have paid into social security. you get an annual statement in the mail from them.

  333.  #333Frenchkitty on September 23, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    BarbinOz 302 (I think…)

    Thank you for this link. I read it and I think it’s so true. It reminded me of a conclusion I came to a while ago…

    Men have their life (or their mission in life), and women are an just an addition to that. For women, men often ARE their life. And I’m afraid that causes us a lot of grief. We should have our own missions and let men be an addition. That way our lives wouldn’t fall apart every time a man lets us down.

    I don’t think it’s inevitable that “the most important thing to most women will always be the relationship”. I think it’s something that can be worked on. It’s what I’m working on for myself, anyway. Some days I do well, some days I fail miserably. But I know that if I crack it, my happiness won’t depend on a man ever again. He can make me happy when he’s here… but I won’t automatically unhappy when he’s not… sounds good to me….

    Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

  334.  #334Renee on September 23, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    Shannon — Thank you for such a lovely story. I don’t know if I can totally buy into it, but I’m trying:-)

    He finally txted me again about 30 mins ago, and I replied asking him how he was immediately. No response to that yet, so who knows what’s going on in his head. Okay, strike that, he finally got back with me…normal message talking about the Harvest Moon tonight…I still feel so annoyed that he logged into Match last night and I just don’t feel like I can mention it right now. Ugh. I hate that I feel insecure right now.

    I broke down and bought some cigarettes…here’s to starting all over again tommorrow:-/.

  335.  #335Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 4:06 pm


    I used to have an extreme fear of intimacy. Now I crave it. My first boyfriend in prison pointed that out to me.

  336.  #336Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 4:08 pm


    I feel sad that stuff I say triggers you. I feel judged and not good enough. I feel at a deep level. I don’t want to apologize for that. Maybe it’s okay to express myself dramatically when that is how I feel it and who I am.

    Pain creates deep feelings, and I felt so deeply hurt by him. I don’t know what you want from me…can you clue me in?

  337.  #337Jeannette on September 23, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    Dorothea, thanks and now I see what the problem is. He didn’t pay alot into social security over the years. He worked in food service off and on, and played in bands on the weekends for years. So, Now his disability check isn’t all I’d want it to be to even come close in matching my income. I just am concerned I will be the one taking care of HIM and not the other way around. I don’t have a pension, I just have worked and saved some over the years. I love him and please don’t get me wrong. I just need to be sure of what I’m doing. I think my grown kids are a little concerned but not saying a whole lot.

  338.  #338Frenchkitty on September 23, 2010 at 4:09 pm


    I feel for you… and don’t worry about the fags. It’s hard to sort out your love life and give up smoking at the same time. I’m a passionate smoker and just trying to cut down… even that’s difficult. I’ve decided to tackle one demon at a time…..first the love life, the fags can wait….

  339.  #339Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 4:11 pm


    I don’t want poor me attention. I would FAR rather come on this blog and say, “Wow, guess what?? Ryan proposed to me today! We are marrying in such-and-such month and you are all invited!” I think of that post every day. I feel embarrassed that I am so wounded. I feel angry at myself and at Ryan that both of us contributed to f*cking up the best relationship I ever had. I feel frustrated that I have this deep pain that is a physical ache in my heart. I try to rid myself of it by expressing it, but it’s always there in my quiet moments.

    I really just want to be married and leave all this f*cking dating sh*t in my past. I HATE dating!!!! I had been so joyful last year to think I would never have to date again. What do you think/feel?

  340.  #340Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    FrenchKitty re: 328 – YES! I’ve just been reading The Shack (for the second time) and the chapter I read last night was EXACTLY about that. I won’t go too deep because it is a Chr*stian book, but basically it was saying that when humans chose independence from God, man looked to work for his identity and that women looked to man for theirs. It’s when we are both seeking God, as equals but different, that we create a good balance.

    It’s the same thing that Rori calls her “out the window”. For me this feels so true now. When I’m focused on my “out the window” (in my case God), I’m not even thinking about boys. And then when the boy shows up, I feel happy because it’s like “oh hey I didn’t even see you standing there. wow it feels good to see you. I’ve been feeling so busy with stuff”. The other added benefit is that I don’t have all this time to sit around and analyze all the stuff he’s doing (or not doing).

    Thank you for that post!

  341.  #341Jeannette on September 23, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    Do I sound selfish? Please re-read # 332

  342.  #342Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    Brenda: Not to burst your bubble here but marriage IS dating… the same man… over and over and over again. It is not the fairytale we all imagine it to be. It’s wonderful and frustrating in its own way just like dating is wonderful and frustrating in its own way.

    Trust me, I believed that marriage would finally bring me happiness. And it did… for awhile. But it wasn’t what I thought it would be.

    Wait. You’ve been married, right? I feel intrigued to know more about your thoughts on marriage.

    I want to be married again but I have a lot more reservations now than I did before. I’m definitely looking to choose the right guy this time. Not just any ol’ man who will have me. If I have ANY reservations at all about a man, I’m gonna pass on that deal. Been there, done that, got that friggin’ t-shirt.

  343.  #343Frenchkitty on September 23, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Hi Jeanette,

    if you have more money than him you WILL end up looking after him. I’m speaking as someone who has a knack of attracting guys with less money than me (and I married one of them), and you inevitably end up paying for stuff. But if I liked the guy, that’s never bothered me, and if the man I loved asked me to marry him but had no money, I’d still say yes without having to think about it. Unless of course…. I thought he was asking me to marry him BECAUSE of my money. I don’t want to be rude, but do you think that’s a possibility?
    If not, if he loves you and you love him, I can’t see that money should be a reason not to get married. Why shouldn’t you take care of him? Married people take care of each other, each in the way they can. My ex husband hardly ever had any money, but he looked after me in other ways.
    I can also understand if your kids are suspicious, but frankly it’s none of their business (they probably know that, and therefore don’t say anything). You’ve brought them up, you’ve provided for them, and now it’s your turn to make yourself happy FIRST, not them. If marrying this man will make you happy, do it. If you think it won’t, don’t.

  344.  #344Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    I’m lovin’ me some Frenchkitty!

    Jeannette: What Frenchkitty said!

    And just as a little P.S., I feel kind of weird reading your updates about this man. All along I’ve felt this weird energy to throw him in the cage, to make him fit what you’ve wanted. It’s like managing down expectations or something. I love him BUT…

    Your kids don’t like him, you aren’t sure…

    It just feels weird to me. I expected “hooray I got engaged”, not “he asked me to marry him, and I want ya’ll to tell me it’s okay to say yes”.

  345.  #345Jeannette on September 23, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    Frenchkitty, well he’s definitely a sweetheart that’s for sure…I guess I could think of 100 different excuses not to marry him. But he does make me happy, I dated him 40 years ago and now he’s back. I sort of would like to retire, getting tired but I don’t see the likelihood. But whoever said life would be easy right?

  346.  #346Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    I have a trigger around the phrase “burst your bubble.” I’m laughing at myself about that. But I would like that trigger healed. Thank you.

  347.  #347Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    Hey! Facebook is down again! 🙁

  348.  #348Daria on September 23, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    Barb – her name is Wendi Friesen. whats cool is that the videos are like 2 min. I just go right to where she starts the hypnosis

    she also has radio/video show archives on stickam.com under her name, all of them have hypnosis, i just click around until i find where that starts so i dont have to listen to the talking at the beginning

  349.  #349Daria on September 23, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    Barb – I take something like one tablespoon to two table spoons each time, mixed with water

  350.  #350Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Haha! Lucy, I thought the same thing after I posted, like who brought Debbie Downer to the party? 🙂

    I swear I’m not doing drugs but today I feel like I’m on speed. Everything coming a mile a minute. And I should be working. But I don’t want to. Wah wah wah.

    Hehe! I feel giddy in an I’m on crack kind of way.

  351.  #351Frenchkitty on September 23, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    Shannon 335…

    Thank YOU! I was most interested to read your post. Actually I came to this insight when I read a lengthy piece about Sartre and Simone de Beauvoir. The upshot of it was that they had this “open relationship” that worked well for him because it allowed him to shag lots of his female admirers, but didn’t really work for her, because she felt hurt and jealous just like we all do sometimes, but she decided to work on that and have her own missions, and according to this article she succeeded, grew and became a remarkable human being happy in herself by NOT allowing the man to be the centre of her life. (She still looked after Sartre, on the other hand, who remained a slave to his addictions which eventually killed him.)

    So, if a Christian and an existentialist can essentially come to the same conclusion… there must be something in it I say…

  352.  #352Daria on September 23, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    Brenda – I’m not sure what I want “from” you or if i do. The second post with your feelings felt totally comfortable (in contrast) to read…

    if i were to let my voice go uncensored to answer … what do you want from me?

    i would say:

    i want you to stop pulling on me!!! i don’t want to give you extra sympathy!

    im trying to respect you as equal to other people!

    i don’t want to see you as wounded, broken, damaged,

    you are just whining! we are all that way! i feel annoyed!

    IIIIII feel unseen when you do that.

    like you dont respect that i have pain too, and like your pain is just so much more important

    but guess what its not

    so im not gonna give you any extra sympathy than i would any other human being

    just because you are blowing things out of proportion and describing stuff dramatically


    i feel misled, lied to, mistrustful when that happens.

    i feel maipulated

    i feel like im being pulled on with “wounded pain” like in that Margaret Paul article and i feel turned off, NOT compassionate, because its not sincere

    its an avoidance mechanism and I don’t want to fall into it

    you are a dangerous person because you are not willing to respect me on an equal level and are wanting me to give you EXTRA sympathy tho we are both equal

    this feels bad to me


    ok not sure if any of that is helpful (to you since it’s def in YOU YOU YOU language). sorry if it triggers you

    it might be full of assumptions, and

    referring to a whole gang of people and experiences i have that am projecting on you

    and its the putting self down, overdramatic non feeling message language that triggers it

    i love my feelings

    i want to learn to express myself clearly and freely

    thank you

  353.  #353Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    Lol, Shannon. 🙂 I actually agree with what you wrote to Brenda in that post.

    I just honestly DO have a trigger around that particular phrase! I noticed it last week when someone else used it on here….

    I remember it being used on me when I was living at a home for unwed pregnant girls, and it felt really awful and condescending — it felt like everything I had just said had been negated by this man who was the “house father.” I felt very unheard, and that made me feel sad, because I was already feeling sad and lonely. Sob sob sob story… boo hoo poor me. 🙂

    He was a loving, caring man! But it just hit me hard when he said that — and stuck with me so that it STILL triggers me! Weird, huh?

    So I don’t think it’s the phrase that’s the problem — just my “trauma” trigger. Let’s heal that now. Thank you, God.

  354.  #354Jeannette on September 23, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    Life is tough, I DO love my childhood sweetheart but I have visions in my mind that I will have to work forever to support us and I’m already tired. Guess I just feel whiny and sorry for myself at the moment. My mother said, “Make sure he can help you out financially before you launch off and marry him!”

  355.  #355Daria on September 23, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    oh Brenda – i feel sad thinking of taking that list upon yourself.

    i don’t want to throw all those YOU’s on your back.

    this is about me.

    i do think it would help you in your own life to change the language to reflect your feelings and love for yourself,

    but that’s your own choice… and just what i THINK, might not even be relevant for you


    i really just said something for my own healing

    i know people in my life that i feel pulled on when they throw what seems to me to be “poor me” stories,

    and i feel kinda like a deer in the headlights when that happens

    the pattern is then i close off, and feel guilty,

    yet i don’t really say how i feel

    so i’m practicing saying how i feel when i’m pulled on

    some of it might be my triggers…

    my voice will get clearer and easier to hear as i get more healed and comfortable expressing myself around this

    I want help, angels.

    Thank you

  356.  #356Frenchkitty on September 23, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    Shannon 339…
    I completely agree with you. It feels weird…

    No, it isn’t easy, that’s true. But – incurably romantic as I am – love’s better than money. It’s priceless. It gives you a better high than any drug you can buy (unfortunately also a lower low… and withdrawal is terrible). It makes you sparkle like champagne and gives you more energy than anything else I can think of…
    And I mean this is REALLY romantic. You met again after 40 years! Makes you think it’s meant to be, doesn’t it?

    Then again… if he says “marry me” and your first thought is “but you have no money”, then maybe that’s a sign that it isn’t a good idea to marry him. Could be that money would become a constant bone of contention between you. Money problems can ruin relationships. HE might start to feel weird about you looking after him; inadequate even. In my humble opinion, for money not to be a problem between a couple, either both have to contribute equally or both have to not care about it equally. Does that make sense?

    So I would say, think about it. As long as you need! If he’s serious about you, he’ll wait.

  357.  #357Daria on September 23, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    Jeannette – i would not want to do that, marry a man that can’t support himself and half of our household

    A man can find work to support us, even if its some kind of online contract, or filling envelopes and processing medical bills at home.. or something…

    surely he can find some way to support you?

    what does he do to woo you?

    is he the one whos stepping up in other ways?

  358.  #358Jeannette on September 23, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    Wow Frenchkitty that sure is good stuff, thanks again for your input!!

  359.  #359Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    Wanna hear something bizarre??

    Whenever I feel like I *might* be interested in someone else, maybe, possibly, *might* —

    I get this twinge of … guilt? …. that feels like I am CHEATING on WH!!!!

    LOL! That’s crazy!

    What’s that about????

    It happened just now. A guy who is the exact same age as WH, and who lives in the same city as WH, contacted me on pof and wants to talk on the phone. I feel a little bit excited about the possibility with this guy, but that weird “cheating on WH” feeling came up immediately!!


    I feel disbelief at myself. And amusement.

  360.  #360Frenchkitty on September 23, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    Jeannette 353…

    You are very welcome. I have to sign off for tonight, it’s 2.30 a.m. this side of the big pond and I will try to sleep now, but I am very interested in how you get on and what you decide, so I’ll check on you tomorrow. Make sure you keep us updated! I wish you the very best, and I’m sure you’ll come to the right decision for YOU.

    it’s been a pleasure talking to you tonight, thank you!

    All you other sirens…
    Good night and see you soon!

  361.  #361Rori Raye on September 23, 2010 at 5:55 pm

    kim- it’s about Circular Dating.. We’ll help. Forget the men who don’t call. Love, Rori

  362.  #362Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 6:08 pm


    RE: #340 – My answer is DITTO…

    “I want to be married again but I have a lot more reservations now than I did before. I’m definitely looking to choose the right guy this time. Not just any ol’ man who will have me. If I have ANY reservations at all about a man, I’m gonna pass on that deal. Been there, done that, got that friggin’ t-shirt.”

    I know marriage isn’t floating on a cloud. The part I hate is meeting new men and finding them to be scammers, sex maniacs who care nothing about me as a human being, and *ssholes. And I hate the part where I go to meet each new men trying SO hard to set these limiting beliefs, with my hope in my hand, and finding yet another scammer, sex maniac, or *sshole.

    I understand the challenges of getting along with one person. If I am with the right man, which I will be, then give me the complications over loneliness anyday.

    On my way home, I thought about our discussion, and I decided I am going to take an emotional vacation from dating or trying to. I feel emotionally drained. If a man happens to show me attention and ask me out, I will go. But I am taking myself off dating sites and not making any effort out of my way to be in public and meet men. I am just going to focus on my friends, which include all of you, and my Purpose On the Planet for a while.

  363.  #363Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    Awww! Me too Frenchkitty! I meant to comment on the Simone story. I wouldn’t want to give up love for my “out the window”, although I guess I would if God asked. I felt a little weird reading that she looked after him even while he kept his addictions. I’d prefer the story end with her doing what she loved and losing interest in this man. If she kept him as a friend I feel okay but as a lover, then no. I wouldn’t feel good about that. I believe God wants me to have a wonderful relationship with him and with a man. I don’t sacrifice the one for the other. Make sense?

    I feel intrigued (because it’s unknown to me), what does an existentialist believe? I looked it up on Google but I couldn’t understand what that belief looked like. I don’t want to argue faith here. Just curious to know what that means to you. Thanks! Sweet dreams lovely!

  364.  #364Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 6:14 pm

    Yeah Brenda! I feel good about your “pause”. Just don’t go hermit on us. Deal? I know we’re good company and all but humans need humans in flesh and blood too. (((HUGS)))

  365.  #365Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    “I don’t sacrifice the one for the other.”


    That’s what Erika was talking to me about on here last night. Giving up the idea of sacrifice.

  366.  #366Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 6:19 pm


    RE: #350 – I feel slammed for sure. I feel like striking out. Which is another way to word I feel angry. I don’t like being treated unjustly. I feel safe most of the time to share my feelings but I don’t feel safe right now. I feel angry because I have a right to express my feelings, even if you think they are avoidance and not sincere. I don’t understand that. But I know that I know that I know that I have a right to feel and a right to express my feelings.

    I never said you don’t have a right to feel wounded or sad or hurt. I never said my feelings are more important than yours, cuz they aren’t. I feel like hiding. I feel misunderstood. I feel pissed off. I want healing and I want this to be a safe place to heal. I don’t want you to destroy that belief and hope and want.

    My feelings were stomped on all the years I was growing up. I feel angry being told I am whining. What I hear is, “You don’t have a right to feel pain and sadness. Bottle it up, girl. Pretend you are happy. Smile even if you are crying inside.”

    And all the 25 years of in-and-out therapy I’ve gone through wants to scream at you, “I HAVE A RIGHT TO EXPRESS MY FEELINGS, DAMNIT!”

    I feel weary of being misunderstood and thought the worst of by other people’s limiting beliefs.

  367.  #367Daria on September 23, 2010 at 6:20 pm

    yah i don’t believe in sacrifice. or compromise for that matter… but the second one might just be a trigger to the word

    like i used to have to “connected”

  368.  #368Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 6:20 pm

    Daria, P.S. I love and accept you anyway. I love and accept myself anyway. I love my anger. I love your limiting beliefs. I love my frustration.

  369.  #369Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 6:21 pm

    Brenda, let’s go out again like we did last weekend! And this time not wear our sneakers!! Lol! And I’ll try TWO drinks instead of just one! 🙂 What do you think?

  370.  #370Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 6:24 pm


    RE: #353 – Thanks for that. I am willing to work this through with you, but only under one condition: that you call me a dork.

  371.  #371Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 6:26 pm

    I DEMAND that someone comment on my “cheating on WH” post! Haha, just kidding. 🙂

    I feel interested in any thoughts or insights people might have about it, but if no one feels inspired to comment, that’s okay.

  372.  #372Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 6:28 pm


    You’re on!

  373.  #373Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 6:29 pm


    I missed it…what number?

  374.  #374Renee on September 23, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    Well, Blondie and I are in the middle of a txt convo that doesn’t seem to be going well…he txted me that he wanted to watch the football game with his dad on Saturday instead of watch the movie we had planned (he’d been lobbying for the football game all along, but I was standing firm)…he said I was welcome to join them, but he understood if I begged off…

    This started a convo where I said I had felt really connected to him yesterday but that I felt a disconnect today. The story is still unraveling, but after telling me for the 2nd time yesterday that he didn’t want to see anyone else, he’s now saying we should keep our options open…this feels bad…I don’t know if he’s reacting to my refusal to become exclusive with him or what, but he’s definitely taking a step back…can I pick ’em or what?

    The truth is, though, I feel like it’s something I’ve done or said and I don’t know what it is…it’s been almost 20 mins since my last txt and no word back from him yet…I told him that he was the one who volunteered yesterday that he didn’t want to see anyone else, and asked him what had changed since yesterday…I told him that I had been feeling warm and fuzzy about us but now things felt bad…

    I’ve been trying to use feeling messages and be honest about my feelings, but now it seems like it’s biting me in the butt. I feel like I’m never going to be ‘enough’ for anyone — not even people I thought weren’t ‘good enough’ for me in the first place…I feel so bad right now…

  375.  #375Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 6:30 pm

    Jeannette’s situation has me thinking about what my own values are when it comes to this stuff. I feel grateful for the opportunity to get to know myself better.

    I think that we do make sacrifices for the ones we love, but it doesn’t actually occur to us that we’re making sacrifices when we love them to pieces. then they ‘cross’ us somehow and we remember, wait a second, i did a lot of nice things for you that i didn’t have to!

    this happens with my girl friends, male friends, relationships, lovers…

    part of it was me overfunctioning for a long time. so in the end when i felt drained and used and having sacrificed more than i should have, it was because i overfunctioned to keep that person around or to make them accept me or approve of me.

    and now i am learning the difference between a relationship in which i have to overfunction to keep the ship sailing smoothly, and when it’s just a simple conflict or misunderstanding. I am also learning that not all conflicts must be resolved right away, and more over, that conflicts may take a long time to be resolved, but none of this means that i am being wronged in some way.

    i have all the time in the world. i’d rather take time to let negative passions cool down for both parties than risk either of us saying something we’d regret or not being in a place to feel heard on either end. If the love and sincerity is there, everything will be okay:)

    Wow, thanks Jeannette. I feel like I just upped my frequency permanently because your situation got me going towards that place.

  376.  #376Daria on September 23, 2010 at 6:30 pm

    Brenda – the stuff that triggered/s me didn’t express a feeling. that’s a big part of why it triggered me

    i hear your anger. thank you.

    i also hear some attacks or blame of me

    i feel kinda defensive.

    im willing to speak my feelings nonetheless. i don’t want to feel pulled on emotionally by people’s words

    that feels bad to me

    hearing your actual feelings feels completely different than that

    i would feel happy to be seen as attempting to GIFT you the truth of how i feel

    i apologize again for answering your question “what do you want from me?” in a what-my-voice-says non feeling message way

    i see more and more, from this interaction and one a couple days ago with a gf, that this is not the way to go… even if it’s honest, feeling messages are much better at communicating what i want to express and getting the connection i want

    i dont want to see you to go around emphasizing how you’re broken/wounded, and blaming people… because it won’t give you the connection results you want (like real feeling messages will)

    and i want you to see you happy

    but that’s about you, and you have your own pace and path


  377.  #377Dorothea on September 23, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    hugs, renee. thanks for the update <3

  378.  #378Jeannette on September 23, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    Daria, yes I agree that he needs to help support us better. I have to talk to him about it. But he’s on disability so they won’t let him make a lot of money on it. What does he do to woo me? He’s just the sweetest man in the world and very genuine. He would love me no matter what, if I said yes or if I said no. It’s love Daria, this I know. Only downfall, he’s probably not all that great with money matters, but he did follow his dream of being a musician. Oh well, good night girls and thanks for all your input….

  379.  #379Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 6:32 pm

    Brenda, #357. 😀 I feel sheepish.

  380.  #380Daria on September 23, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    awww… thank you! I love and accept you too!!!

    I don’t want to see you putting yourself down or putting your wounds ahead of yourself! that feels bad to me

  381.  #381Daria on September 23, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    now im curious if putting wounds ahead is somehow healing

  382.  #382Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 6:33 pm


    I feel caution when I hear you trying to work out a relational conflict via text. Danger, danger! My inner alarm goes off. Good way for misunderstandings and all. Far better to discuss in person next time you see him, when things are calm. Then you can see his eyes, expressions, instead of guessing what he’s thinking and feeling with each message you send. What if you say, “I feel weird discussing this by text. I’d rather discuss it with you next time I see you. What do you think?”

  383.  #383Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    Lucy: Why do you think you got that feeling? re: cheating on WH.

  384.  #384Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 6:43 pm

    Hi Shannon. Thank you for responding to my demand. 😀 Lol.

    I don’t know!!! That’s what I am wondering. It doesn’t make any sense at all! But it has happened around 3-4 times, with different guys. Guys I feel a little attracted to, and think maybe there is potential — then WH pops into my head and I think, “Oh no, I can’t betray WH! He is my baby, my love!”


  385.  #385Renee on September 23, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    Brenda — hank you for your concern. He’s suggested that we talk on the phone and is going to call me after he gets finished eating (leftovers from the Chinese dinner I bought us yesterday…I know — it seemed like a sweet gesture at the time, but now I’m regretting it).

    I just feel this whole thing disintegrating, and I feel pretty clueless about what went wrong…I won’t regurgatate what I’ve already covered as to what has transpired, but I knew something was off as of last night when he logged onto Match…up until this point, he literally seemed addicted to me, and now it feels like I’m an “option” for him and that just won’t do.

    I just wish he hadn’t insisted on meeting both sets of parents at the football game recently…now I’m going to have to explain how I effed up this relationship too and I don’t even know why/how. I really just want to cry from shame of my inability to maintain a normal healthy relationship…

  386.  #386Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 6:51 pm


    On the one hand, I appreciate that you are trying to help me by telling me feeling messages make better communication. On the other hand, I feel controlled that when I express myself freely, I will be harshed on.

    At the risk of more harshing on, I will tell you what I observed in my beloved Ryan. He has a VERY unique communication style. Parts of it I loved. He was very quiet, and most of the time when he talked, his words were meaningful. If I talked and forgot to be sensitive to him and to two way conversation, he would silently let me go on. He rarely got angry, and the handful of times I saw him angry, he was mostly processing something internally, pounded the steering wheel, and virtually never raised his voice to me.

    Leaning forward, I spoke way to often to fill the silence and break my discomfort. Sometimes I would sing to him to comfort him, because music is very cathartic to him. Only one time do I remember him “shushing” me. We were laying in bed for pillow talk and cuddling, and he softly said, “Shhh.”

    I felt embarrassed and got silent. And stayed silent. And then I felt it. I got into his vibe. It felt so cool, connecting with him in silence!

    I am saying a few things without saying them here. But the one thing I want to draw out directly, altho I feel hesitant, is sometimes it is more effective in the long term to let a person learn by your example, rather than trying to control them. Sometimes I feel controlled when I feel stomped on when trying to use my freeform voice.

    I learn far more from you simply by how you demonstrate feeling messages, riffing, etc. I feel far more receptive then, too. All you need to do is to BE. Just be your beautiful self and we will get a clue.

    What do you think/feel?

  387.  #387Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    Renee, I feel compassion for you. I feel sad that you feel shame. I wish I could give you a big hug.

    He is just a CD, right? Would it feel good to think of it that way, and accept whatever is happening as just part of the CD journey?

    If it feels this bad and out-of-control for you, I might (if it were me) consider saying, “I’m feeling confused and it would feel better to not see each other for awhile.”


  388.  #388Jeannette on September 23, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    Girls, I want to tell Steve that in order to get married we need to work out some financial issues. I want him to step up and say he would like to try and find a part time job or something to help supplement. He has said he’d like to give guitar lessons. But, as of late, he has been battling cancer and seems to be pulling through. So I guess it’s one thing at a time……

  389.  #389Daria on September 23, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    Brenda – i actually feel turned off when you use a story to illustrate a point (like this time)

    i feel like im disconnected, and being “led/taught” a little bit talked down to

    i feel good and connected when you use feeling messages

    i feel frustrated that my words were interpreted as “harshing”…

    BUT i feel confident in myself when i express myself in feeling messages, instead of “what lil judgy voice in my head says” – i love you judgy voice –

    and that voice could certainly come across as harshing… even if i give a disclaimer as to where those thoughts are coming from (inner judgy voice)

    i feel a lil pressured to be quiet as well

    and i also feel glad and encouraged by you that I can speak my feelings and speak my truth in this (feeling message) way

    gosh i feel relieved that this possibility exists

  390.  #390Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 7:08 pm


    Please be gentle with yourself. Give compassion to your crying heart.

  391.  #391Daria on September 23, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    Lucy – for me, when i feel that way, it’s guilt because im thinking about what the guy might think/want/feel

    it’s my feeling unworthy and also in his business

  392.  #392Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    Jeannette: How might that look in feeling messages? I can’t get a read on how you feel about all this. It feels really weird reading it.

    Why am I triggered nearly every time Jeannette posts?

  393.  #393Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 7:11 pm


    You said, “i feel like im disconnected, and being “led/taught” a little bit talked down to.”

    That is how I feel when I am called on it each time I speak freely and don’t word it exactly as you would.

    And that was my point.

    If I want to tell you about another relationship as an example to illustrate my point, I have a right to do that.

  394.  #394Jeannette on September 23, 2010 at 7:14 pm

    Simply Shannon, can you tell me in feeling messages how I trigger you?

  395.  #395Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 7:14 pm


    I have felt guilty like I am cheating on Ryan for over a year now. I feel frustrated that I can’t shake that feeling. I can’t be objective about your feeling to comment beyond that. I feel angry at my heart that I can’t let Ryan go. I can’t leave him in the past.

  396.  #396Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    Brenda: I loved the last part of that message to Daria! Show me how to live by example. LOVE that.

    I feel a little weird when you tell stories about Ryan too, like he’s not a real person or something. Like he’s this mythical being who somehow rescued you from hell. I don’t want to talk bad about him but I certainly don’t want him put on a pedestal. You saved you. He was just there when it happened.

    I feel protective. I shall leave the super hero cap in the closet. For now. 🙂

  397.  #397Daria on September 23, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    Brenda – MY FAVORITE – really struck deep – line from Rori Raye’s program

    “You have the right to talk to me however you want, BUT I DON’T LIKE IT!”

    i’m feeling angry and unheard now

    i don’t want to be seen as “calling you out” when i express that i feel bad reading your non feeling message language

  398.  #398Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    Jeannette: I feel turned off. Like someone is explaining love to me rather than experiencing the joy of it. I don’t want a love that feels difficult, like a math equation to solve. A+B+C = Love – chemistry – passion – joy. Blech.

    When you wrote: Girls, I want to tell Steve that in order to get married… my brain went to the Charlie Brown school teacher… and explaining math.

    Where’s the excitement? Where’s the joy?

    I feel disconnected and angry. I don’t know why.

    Do I do this? Ummm… hello Ms. Rational. Yes, I rationalize the hell out of everything. And it doesn’t work. I want laughter and joy and faith AND love. I will have it all thank you very much. No sacrifice.

    Grrrr. I’ve had so much fun laughing at myself the past couple of hours. I want MORE of that. No more rationalizing. If it doesn’t feel good, stop.

    Thank you Jeannette. This isn’t really about you. I’m sorry to pull you into my own story.

    I want this healed God!

  399.  #399Daria on September 23, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    I feel amused that the first line of my post sounded like a mini story!!

  400.  #400Jennifer on September 23, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    I did ok at judo.
    I he was grappling with one of the other women in class and I kept waiting to feel jealous. But I didn’t. Interesting.
    I used to feel jealous about B all the time.
    I was getting some instruction from him and I said “when I do this move I feel vunerable with the ending. I feel unbalanced.”
    He took lots of time to show me how to make the ending more efficient and less unbalanced.
    I felt taken care of.
    This feels calmer.
    I was a little bad. I did say that I needed to go home and get in a hot bath. I looked at him and smiled.
    just a little bad.

  401.  #401Jeannette on September 23, 2010 at 7:40 pm

    Simply Shannon, funny you explained all this here. I was just telling a friend on the phone, I need more faith in my life. It’s been a real eye opener to read your words. I know I have been MS. RATIONEL forever. Thanks again…..

  402.  #402Jennifer on September 23, 2010 at 7:41 pm

    He was also doing some leaning forward to make sure I was going to start coming to class twice a week.
    I feel ok about that.

  403.  #403Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    Jennifer: “I feel okay about that”.

    Are you feeling feverish? Cold coming on?

    Hold on, hold on…

    Hey ya’ll. Jennifer done got “okay” on us over here. A boy just did some leaning forward in her presence, and she didn’t freak out. No freezing up.

    “I feel a little unbalanced Judo Man. Can you help me?” I can see the eyelash-batting from a mile away and she says she feels “okay”.

    Oh my word. I feel excited. Baby girl is growing into a siren right before our eyes!

    Woohoo!! All that baby step practice appears to be working!!!

  404.  #404Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 7:57 pm


    RE: #394 – No, Ryan took me to hell. I felt suicidal for two days after his fake proposal.

    Now I feel angry like I’m damned if I do and damned if I don’t. I get harshed on if I say how Ryan hurt me and I get harshed on if I focus on his positive qualities. I don’t like feeling unwelcome to express my feelings and thoughts freely. I feel like withdrawing and I don’t know if I want to talk about Ryan any more on here. I feel misunderstood. I feel weary of feeling misunderstood.

  405.  #405Jennifer on September 23, 2010 at 8:01 pm

    Oh Shannon…yer a riot.
    There WAS eyelash batting. I bought new Lise Wattier mascara…that’s a high end brand out of Montreal. FANTASTIC lashes.
    If I tell you evertime he grabbed hold of me I think I could hear him take a deep breath cause I put cinnimon oil on the nape of my neck, do I get “Yee Haw ((doubel shotgun blast))?

  406.  #406Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 8:01 pm

    Shannon, RE: #401…smile! That’s sweet! I love how you worded that!

    Jennifer, YAY! Good job, judo woman!

  407.  #407Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 8:05 pm


    Why am I even talking to you? You haven’t called me a dork yet! 🙂

    Seriously, I KNOW you don’t like it. I don’t like feeling controlled every time I open my mouth. I had a whole childhood and into my 20s of that, thank you. I am not willing to be controlled. I am not willing to pet your peeves.

    I use a lot of feeling messages and I want messages. But I find it impossible to do nothing but that. Also, I possess boy energy too, and sometimes I operate in that energy. I feel bad you don’t like it, but I don’t want to change my identity to please you. I like how I am using lots of feeling messages, and I am learning in baby steps. I like feeling messages a lot. I also like to feel free to express myself without premeditating every word.

    I still love you and accept you exactly the way you are.

  408.  #408Lakshmi on September 23, 2010 at 8:07 pm

    Oh Renee, I felt really sad when I read what you wrote about “I really just want to cry from shame of my inability to maintain a normal healthy relationship…” I have felt that way so many times. I am in my early 40s and have never been married. I’m attractive, and have a big circle of friends and a professional job (and just finished a yoga teacher training course, which I loved!). My parents and friends are perplexed about my inability to find a lasting relationship. So am I! A part of me feels like they secretly think something is wrong with me.

    Siena wrote something recently about feeling afraid that she’ll miss the chance to have kids, and that’s how I feel. Anyway, I have tried to heal my shame with self-love. I still have moments of feeling like I am fundamentally flawed in some way. Some of us seem to have a more difficult path with relationships. I like to think I skipped my first “failed” marriage and I’ll just have one long beautiful one.

    I love my insecurity, I love my fear, I love my broken heart.

    Big hugs to you Renee.

  409.  #409Jacqueline on September 23, 2010 at 8:10 pm

    Hey, Brenda – I just emailed you to say I like teaching through or with stories….you told me one my first day here, and I still appreciate it. Daria filled two pages with a story the other day I didn’t even understand. Why are stories now wrong?

    I STILL say every voice should have a place here, your feelings for Ryan were intense, are intense and color your outlook on everything. And feelings are what we are all about here. So for me, I feel I understand. Actually, I feel I understand everyone a lot better after going more into observing the never ending conversation, and am appreciating it all.

    Thanks sirens!


  410.  #410Lakshmi on September 23, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    Oh, and I want to heal the limiting belief that I have ” a more difficult path with relationships.” I want to replace that belief with one that says men love and adore and desire me, and the right one for me is just around the corner. Thank you!

  411.  #411Daria on September 23, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    Brenda – i feel unheard and angry

  412.  #412Lakshmi on September 23, 2010 at 8:18 pm

    Oh, and I’m feeling self-conscious and guilty about talking about first “failed” marriages. Like somehow I’m better because I won’t have one. Ha! I think I say that because way deep down I feel bad that noone has wanted to marry me. Well, maybe a couple have, but I didn’t want to marry them.

  413.  #413Daria on September 23, 2010 at 8:18 pm

    i feel glad i get to practice rejecting the communication that doesn’t feel good here, so that i can have clarity about that in my day to day life

  414.  #414Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 8:21 pm


    J*sus is my ideal man. J*sus spoke in parables.

    I love analogies. I feel frustrated by your limiting beliefs but I love your limiting beliefs. I have learned and gained vast understanding through analogies.

    If you don’t receive what I was trying to say, that’s okay. I wasn’t following my own advice, which is to teach by example, not by telling someone how to do it. I just thought you wanted to become more self-aware. I know it’s hard to receive sometimes tho.

    Sorta like being inside a car when someone tells you your car has a headlight out. You don’t see it, so you say, “No I don’t!” We all have blind spots. And I used another analogy.

    I love myself and accept myself anyway.
    And, I love you and accept you anyway.

  415.  #415Daria on September 23, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    Brenda – PS – i notice you say stuff about want messages. Rori advocates I DON’T Want messages.

    want messages are ok, but they CAN be controlling/directive depending on the energy

    “I don’t want… ” makes it clear to reject the particular thing we don’t want, while leaving it open to the man to step up in his own way (which may be better than the way we overfunctioningly thought up for him in our want)

    you may already know this… but just for the record for the readers

  416.  #416Daria on September 23, 2010 at 8:23 pm

    Brenda – I feel amused. Your words sound like a mirror to me.

    “If you don’t receive what I was trying to say, that’s okay. I wasn’t following my own advice, which is to teach by example, not by telling someone how to do it. I just thought you wanted to become more self-aware. I know it’s hard to receive sometimes tho.”

  417.  #417Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    Daria loves Brenda.

  418.  #418Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 8:25 pm

    Brenda: Why do you care what I think or what I say? I don’t mean that in a harsh way. I’m asking sincerely. I love you completely Brenda. I feel weird reading 402. It feels small and weak, like you want me to beg you to stay and talk about Ryan some more. A part of me wanted to say “Ok. Don’t talk about Ryan anymore. If it feels so bad to talk about him, why are you doing it?”

    NOTE: I don’t want you to do what I say. I want you to do what you want. We’re ALL processing stuff here.

  419.  #419Daria on September 23, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    umm i feel angry and annoyed

    i don’t like having my words twisted

    stories aren’t Wrong. i felt turned off by the “explaining” using a story … it felt like … well… it felt annoying and disconnected and bad

    that doesnt’ make it WRONG. nothing is WRONG.

    although, if you want it to be: this is a Rori blog, and stuff against Rori’s teaching can be thought of as WRONG

    for simplicity purposes of course.



  420.  #420Daria on September 23, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    Daria feels angry

    Daria loves Brenda

    Daria feels angry

    i love my anger

  421.  #421Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    JENNIFER: 403 – I knew you were my sister from another mother. Hahahahahaha!

    Take that Judo Boy. You are defenseless against my cinnamon stick, I mean, my siren power.

  422.  #422Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 8:28 pm


    I don’t want to fight with you.
    I don’t want to use I don’t want statements.
    I don’t want to go to bed.
    I don’t want to leave this blog, because I like it here.
    I don’t want Shannon to feel hurt or angry because of what I said. I love and accept Shannon anyway.
    I don’t want to be controlled.
    I don’t want to come up with any more I don’t want statements.
    I don’t.

  423.  #423Daria on September 23, 2010 at 8:29 pm

    Yay Lakshmi! And it is done! the belief change. Babysteps!

  424.  #424Daria on September 23, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    Brenda – I feel disconnected from you. I feel mistrustful and afraid of being attacked. I feel unheard

    i feel annoyed, and frustrated

  425.  #425Daria on September 23, 2010 at 8:33 pm

    Brenda –

    what triggers you when someone says “i don’t like this… ” to think that you are being controlled?

    i think this is an important distinction to make

    for me, i feel bad when i hear someone doesn’t like something i say. do i feel controlled?

    honestly, i don’t feel controlled (though i may in the past when i was very intent on pleasing everyone…), i might feel defensive or angry, hmm… i feel confused now

  426.  #426Daria on September 23, 2010 at 8:33 pm

    Yay Jennifer!

  427.  #427Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 8:34 pm


    I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to be so harsh. I guess feeling misunderstood is a trigger to me.

    There are certain topics I generally don’t discuss with most people. Because I almost consistently feel misunderstood. And that feels draining. I didn’t say that in a self-pity kind of way. I meant it. My thot was okay, if this blog that is for dropping limiting beliefs is going to be as judgmental as people in my every day world, I’ll just keep my garbage to myself.

    I talk about Ryan cuz I still have issues about him and because he is still texting me, which means he is still in my CD rotation, if I understand correctly. And I am still in love with him. I have few people I can talk to about Ryan because most people in my every day world are angry at him about his fake proposal. I used to talk mostly to Kenny about him but Kenny got so angry he wanted to beat him up every time I mentioned his name.

    I feel kinda stuck.

    I love you very much, too, Shannon. I sorry.

  428.  #428Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    Jacqueline re: 405: I feel amused and slightly offended at the “never ending conversation” remark. Are you writing to tell us you’re not writing us?

    Glad you are feeling better. I feel slightly less punchy when I read your post. Still felt a couple of digs but mostly underneath my trigger radar.

  429.  #429Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 8:35 pm


    RE: #422 – You said, “Brenda – I feel disconnected from you. I feel mistrustful and afraid of being attacked. I feel unheard

    i feel annoyed, and frustrated”


  430.  #430Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 8:37 pm

    Every time I speak in free form to just express my heart at the moment, when you are here, I hear about it. That feels controlling.

    But I love you very much and feel playful when I do stuff like using a bunch of “I don’t want” statements. That is my playful way of saying, “Yes Ma’am.”

  431.  #431Daria on September 23, 2010 at 8:39 pm

    Jaqueline – I felt bad when you said you didn’t understand the stories…

    i feel really angry at you and the way you have been communicating with me

    the story, to give some context, was something that touched me, and that i wanted to have available here to process… tho i wound up processing a lot of it off “paper”

    its the main story of the Goddess Obba

    its from the hmm what would it be called? the religion that worships orishas… originally Yoruba

    it felt difficult for me to process the sadness and betrayal of one sister by another,

    as well as Obba starting to act more and more like a doormat and eventually losing her husband to the actions she took out of anxiety to try to hold on to him

    to me it’s reflective of what I’ve experienced with a man, and what i often see others experiencing on the blog

    i’ve still been touched by it all day

  432.  #432Daria on September 23, 2010 at 8:42 pm

    Brenda – I feel attacked by the “yes maam’

    i don’t feel amused. i feel angry.

    i feel angry and i don’t want to be “tricked” into thinking its ok to ‘playfully’ put Daria down subtly

    with the ‘yes m’am’ type of comments

    i don’t like implying im controlling you

    sorry you feel controlled

    i am going to keep saying how i feel, and i would feel happy if eventually i’ll feel heard

  433.  #433Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    Brenda: I’m not angry at you at all. I’m cool over here. I’m just telling you how I feel. I own my feelings. You aren’t hurting me or anything. You could tell me to eff off and I’d feel okay. Ya know? I felt more juiced up about Jeannette’s post than yours. I’m just talking with you.

    I feel connected to you reading 425. I just got a glimpse of the whole person again. The one standing in front of me, not the past Brenda.

    I can’t even really explain why. Does anyone else do that from 425?

    Daria: Can you see the difference?

    Maybe the vulnerability of it? I feel different that’s for sure. It feels real. I can understand that loneliness when people are ganging up on me about something I want to talk about. And I stop bringing it up because I’d rather deal with it alone than deal with their judgments.

    I don’t want you to stop talking about how you feel about Ryan. Maybe what bothers me is when you talk about Ryan as if I need to know him. I don’t want to know him. I want to know you.

    I feel confused about what I’m trying to convey.

  434.  #434Daria on September 23, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    Brenda – it’s not the talking about Ryan thing that triggers me, it’s the putting yourself down and speaking of yourself as “more” wounded than other people

    that’s the part that i feel mistrustful and bad, and pulled on about

    i don’t want to hear about how someone is “more” wounded and therefore in need of attention than say, me, or someone else

    to me we are all humans, and are all wounded

    so that feels like a turn off, like someone implying that they are more important than me (in this case because of wounds)

    i feel stuck and blank. i feel hopeless about being heard

  435.  #435Simply Shannon on September 23, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    Ok. Night all. I want to go to bed at a reasonable hour tonight.

  436.  #436Jacqueline on September 23, 2010 at 8:48 pm

    Shannon….it’s a never ending story because it was going on before I got here, before you got here…maybe before Daira even got here? and it will continue on long after I am gone; I’ve come to enjoy it.

    Daria, I know you were processing but I didn’t understand it or it’s relevance or it’s meaning. I don’t need to. If stories are okay, stories are okay.

    They just need to be okay all the time, just like sometimes explaining is okay and sometimes it’s not – and Rori doesn’t say either way. When I reread hearttools workbook today I was just in awe of what Rori does say, and when I come here – for me, it feels diluted or distorted. Which is fine, I think it’s what she says – in the booklet anyway, is the purpose of the blog.

    So, with that coming from Rori’s intro in her own book in her own program, I really cannot find anyway for us to be here wrong.

    Perhaps a clearer to hear way to say it, was I feel good listening to the stories told here. Instead of being emotionally imbalanced, or invested, I don’t want to feel imbalanced or invested, I want to learn and grow here.

    Night, all,

  437.  #437Daria on September 23, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    Jaqueline – hmm.. do you understand it’s relevance now, after i “explained” it?


  438.  #438Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 8:51 pm


    Maybe it took some humility for me to accept yet more instruction from you on don’t want messages after I just finished saying I don’t want every word I say to be directed.

    Maybe I am not all emotionally wrapped up in our conversation and feel playful like Shannon. Maybe “Yes Ma’am” is purely playful and not a putdown. Maybe that is NVs. Because it aint’ coming from me. I am not putting you down. I love you and I meant it when I said I don’t want to fight with you. I am really hoping to make up with you and hoping you will call me a dork before I go to bed soon. I don’t like to go to bed with my tummy all kinds of churny cuz someone’s mad at me. That feels awful. I was just tryin to be friendly and funny. I love and accept you anyway. I don’t like it when I am growled at. What do you think/feel?

  439.  #439Daria on September 23, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    Brenda – I feel put down by the implied i’m controlling you thing in the “yes m’am” i don’t like that.

    I don’t like to be called controlling, whehter it’s covered up by playfullness or not.

  440.  #440Daria on September 23, 2010 at 8:57 pm

    that (the “yes m’am” implied stuff) is exactly the type of “ish” (communication) that i don’t want to tolerate in real life…

    and sometimes i miss standing up for myself because it’s so subtle

    so really i feel very grateful that i get to practice on that here


  441.  #441Daria on September 23, 2010 at 9:02 pm

    ps youre a dork

  442.  #442Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 9:05 pm


    RE: #432 – I already addressed that directly in #364 – “I never said you don’t have a right to feel wounded or sad or hurt. I never said my feelings are more important than yours, cuz they aren’t. I feel like hiding. I feel misunderstood. I feel pissed off. I want healing and I want this to be a safe place to heal. I don’t want you to destroy that belief and hope and want.

    My feelings were stomped on all the years I was growing up. I feel angry being told I am whining. What I hear is, “You don’t have a right to feel pain and sadness. Bottle it up, girl. Pretend you are happy. Smile even if you are crying inside.”

    And all the 25 years of in-and-out therapy I’ve gone through wants to scream at you, “I HAVE A RIGHT TO EXPRESS MY FEELINGS, DAMNIT!”

    I feel weary of being misunderstood and thought the worst of by other people’s limiting beliefs.”

    I believe every human being is infinitely valuable and precious. I feel equal compassion for the wounds of everyone: Ryan, Daria, Shannon, Jacqueline, Lucy, Rori, Erika, or myself.

    That didn’t come from me that my pain matters more than anyone elses.

    How can I help us get along so I can go to bed in peace? I appreciate you working this thru with open communication. I really am getting tired. I love you and accept you exactly the way you are, as I do myself.

  443.  #443Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 9:08 pm


    RE; #437 – Ok, gotcha. I can see how that yes ma’am implies control. My bad. I don’t think I really meant it that way. If we were in the same room together, as in, if you could see my expression and hear my tone of voice, you may not feel that way. It is something I am in the habit of saying. But you made a valid point, and I will explore that while I lay in bed falling asleep, feeling so happy that you finally called me a dork! LOL! I love you, too, G!

  444.  #444Brenda on September 23, 2010 at 9:11 pm

    Yeah, I just processed it. I think yes ma’am is more about accepting instruction gracefully rather than feeling humiliated. It isn’t about control in my heart, I am pretty sure. It’s a way I have used to save face when I feel compelled to do something someone is telling me to do. Can you dig it?

  445.  #445Daria on September 23, 2010 at 9:42 pm

    i can dig it, that’s pretty cool processing

    if it were me i would now say.. hey i feel compelled to do what you’re telling me to do

    BUT that doesn’t mean YOU have to do that. lOl!

    i just worked out my 4th day!

    thats an official T-tapp bootcamp

    that means my body is passed over a plateau now!!!

    tomorrow is a day of rest!!!

    and then comes the body Sculpting!

    watch out for me in the pages of Maxxim, King , and FHM

  446.  #446Daria on September 23, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    Thank you Wendi Friesen, Teresa Tapp, guy who wrote the get a bigger butt book, and Daria!!

    and everyone else!!!

    thank youuuu

  447.  #447Daria on September 23, 2010 at 9:44 pm

    i feel really pleasantly surprised at myself.

    thank you me.

    you’ve been doing GREAT

  448.  #448mary on September 23, 2010 at 10:16 pm

    Woah Nellie…

    Everything’s going along great, except that I’ve gotten busy, and we’ve had the most super amazing times, and suddenly I see this morning that my guy has checked his online profile.

    Mmmmmm… he told me the other day that he might want to spend the rest of his life with me…

    I hid my profile a while back because I was being stalked by another guy and I was just tired of it. I didn’t unhide it because I got busy and wanted a little break from dating, plus I was getting into this guy.

    It would seem like such an abrupt change to suddenly unhide it, wouldn’t it? And then what? I did it once a few weeks ago, when this happened before, in the middle of the night, and within ten minutes a guy was asking me for a date. So I hid it again. What would I do with all those other guys that would want to talk with me? I’d be online a lot.

    And then what?

    Both of us have had spouses and partners cheat on us. And I was gonna ride to a conference with a married guy in my car, and he was upset about that, so I cancelled.

    Maybe that’s what did it. It made him feel boxed in, didn’t it.


    Or is it that the closeness is so intense?

    It’s pretty good between us. We’re really liking each other.

    I just went somewhere tonight and he wanted me to call him afterwards. I don’t want to call him right now.

    I want to give up.

    I don’t want to get out there and circular date because it’s so much energy. And I don’t know what to tell all those guys, because I really like this guy. And what about sex?

    I’ve been circular dating the world by being busy with my career and getting with friends and doing stuff. I’m always out and about… but…

    Yeah. I need to figure out how not to be focused on him.

    I just don’t want to contribute to feelings that I might be a person who would fool around. And dating other guys while I’m dating him makes a guy feel like that, doesn’t it? I want him to know that if we were married, I wouldn’t have an affair. Because I wouldn’t. So if I dated other guys now, he might think I would.

    It’s a bit of a dilemma.

    Any ideas out there?

  449.  #449Laughing goddess on September 23, 2010 at 10:28 pm

    I just read this article on the Inner Bonding website and I feel inspired to share it here. Xoxo

    Are You Sharing or Are You Pulling?
    By Phyllis Stein, Ph.D.
    December 31, 2006

    Those of us who are addicted to trying to get approval from others in order to feel okay may wind up, as I did, having a very hard time. I always knew that whatever I was doing, it wasn’t working. When I did not succeed in getting the approval, the interaction would spiral downhill. I would become more and more desperate, as I tried to figure out some way to act that did not elicit the negative reactions that I was getting. The harder I tried the worse it got. When I began to get help doing Inner Bonding, I learned that what I was doing was called “pulling.” Pulling is when we act like we are sharing, but our intent is to get someone else to make us okay. My little girl generally did not feel okay, because I was not there for her, so I was always looking for that fix. I tried to notice when I was pulling, but my initial reason for trying to notice it was to try not to do it, so I would not get the negative reaction. I could not see that trying to be okay in other people’s eyes, instead of helping my little girl feel okay, was the issue, and that until she was okay because I was there for her, I would continue to pull. I could not recognize how deeply convinced I was that getting approval from others was the only way I could feel okay.

    So, when I thought I was sharing, offering something, a comment, an insight or a joke, I was actually taking, trying to get people to make me feel okay by accepting and approving of me. It was like I was physically trying to pull it out of them. When I thought I was offering something, it was really just me throwing out a fishing line to try to hook the other person into giving me a way to feel better. Only when I began to feel how awful my little girl felt when I did this, and learned that she did feel okay when I was there for her, could I stop pulling on others.

    Recently, I facilitated a phone session with Guy. His experienced paralleled mine. When people did not respond as he hoped and told him that he was pulling on them, he felt confused and picked on and yet he knew there was something important that he was just not seeing. I asked him to go back to a moment when someone reacted to his pulling. He said that he remembered when one woman, Jennifer, was talking about the abusive relationships that she had with different men in her life.

    This was our conversation:

    “I started feeling badly for her because, even though I was not that bad, I had treated women badly. I tried to apologize to her for how she was treated. She said my apology felt “Weird.” And then I felt terrible.”

    “Guy, what were you feeling when Jennifer was talking about these relationships?”

    “I was feeling badly.”

    “Guy, were you feeling ‘badly’ or were you feeling like you were a bad person?”

    “I guess I was feeling like a bad person.”

    “So when Jennifer was talking about her experiences, you were telling your little boy that he was bad. What did you do about feeling like a bad boy?”

    The light went on. “Oh my gosh, I gave my little boy to her! I wanted her to accept my apology so that my little boy would not feel so bad anymore.”

    Guy immediately saw that he had done this over and over again, trying to solve the problem of feeling that he was bad by getting approval from others. He had seen himself as a nice guy, offering his insights and compassion. Now he understood that his intent, rather than to be loving, had been to have control over others seeing him as “good.” He also saw that the little boy who was being told he was so bad was just a terrified child, a beautiful little boy, who needed his love, not something from other people. Guy now understands why people said he was pulling. He is on his way now, able to truly set his intent to learning to be loving to himself rather than learning to get approval from others.

  450.  #450Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 10:35 pm

    I just had a horrible experience with a guy from pof. I’m shaking. My heart is pounding. It was the guy I wrote about tonight (same age and city as WH).

    He had messaged me on pof and asked to be fb friends (which I did), and he called and left a message on my phone. I wrote him on pof that I MIGHT be able to call him back tonight.

    Well, I just checked pof on my phone and there was a horrible message from him, bashing me for not calling him when he “could see that I had time to log on to pof for hours.” (I was NOT on pof for hours — I did occassionally check in there on my phone to read messages — I’d get on, read a message, then get off. I have no idea what pof said about my “status” — but I know what I did and didn’t do and it’s none of his da*n business anyway!!!)

    So in his message he called me names and ridiculed and belittled me and dissed me and even referred to my kids as “more baggage than SW airlines”!! I feel horrified and so sad that a man would say that about my kids!

    But, I decided to call him to see if I could clear up the confusion around him thinking I was spending all that time on pof instead of calling him (I was actually in bed watching TV and trying to fall asleep but sometimes checking my emails on my phone and reading blog posts etc., which is how I saw he sent me a pof msg.)

    I told him I couldn’t call him earlier, and then had thought after around 10:30 or so, when I could’ve called him, it was really too late to call someone who I don’t know. He blasted me for that. “Don’t give me that BS! You knew I was a musician! Did you even bother to look at my website? You know musicians keep crazy hours! How could it be ‘too late’ to call! You’re a liar and a bullshit*er! In case you haven’t figured it out by now, I am a very smart and articulate man, a college graduate, so nobody’s gonna BS ME!”

    In the pof msg, he said a bunch of horrible things, and I wish I would’ve saved it to show you girls because it was just so horrible — but I hurriedly blocked him on my account and didn’t know that that would delete the msgs he had already sent. It was full of words typed with all caps, and even dumb little things like calling me “country girl” in a derogatory way. 🙁 He ended with, “you snooze you lose. You missed out on a great cosmo guy!”

    I feel violated.

    I feel stupid for letting him on my fb page (he’s now unfriended). But he also knows my full name now, and could find me if he wanted to.

    I doubt he wants to, though, because I think his whole reaction is coming from insecurity — feeling bad about himself, and *imagining* that I wronged him because of his own triggers and then making up “stories” about me so that he wouldn’t have to listen to his NV’s about HIMSELF.

    Big sigh.

    I feel angry. I feel glad I didn’t go out with the guy! I feel glad I didn’t call him earlier, because then I wouldn’t have seen his true colors this soon!! So it is actually GOOD that it happened this way. Everything happens for a reason. God protected me from this guy. (Even though I feel violated now. That will pass.)

    But now I am thinking of WH, and how good and kind he was to me, in all his contacts with me. I wish he would realize he wants me (hehe). Then I wouldn’t have to read garbage and have phone convos like tonight’s with Crazy Piano Man!!!

    I will say I am VERY proud of myself for remaining calm and KIND!! on the phone with him. I was kind to him! Can you believe it?! In the face of a verbal onslaught from this guy on the phone (and you know I’m not a phone person!) — I stayed calm and spoke kindly to him. I feel surprised. He interrupted me as I was trying to tell him what was true about my evening compared to the assumptions he had made…. he interrupted, yelling at me and calling me a liar — so I just said, calmly, “Well, it’s clear that we’re not right for each other. I don’t want to be in a relationship with a man who can’t even trust me on a basic level. Goodbye.” And I hung up. Then ran downstairs to the computer to get him off my pof favorites list so he couldn’t write a review on my page, and took him off facebook.

    Even though I talked to him calmly, I was shaking and my heart was pounding.

    I feel a little better now, writing this all out.

    I feel sad that it happened. 🙁

    I want a good, loving man in my life. I want a man I feel safe with. I want him now. Thank you.

  451.  #451mary on September 23, 2010 at 10:53 pm

    wow Lucy, what a story!

    i have to laugh at the musician part. i’m still up all night probably because of my years as a musician.

    yes, you did great!

    i’m wondering about FB though… do you often put people on there that you don’t know? i don’t know much about it.

    maybe guys use POF and sites like that like we do here – maybe they allow themselves to “go off” sometimes when they might not do it in person, or if you knew them.

    not wanting to take up for this guy, but i can’t think of any other explanation except that he’s a basic loser.

    i feel sad that it happened, too.

    Lucy! you can have such a great guy! i want you to have the best!

  452.  #452Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 10:54 pm

    Hi Mary. I don’t know what to say about your situation, but I want you to know that I hear you and I care, and hopefully some others will have some feedback for you. (I just got out of bed to write about Crazy Piano Man, and am heading back there now.)


  453.  #453Laughing goddess on September 23, 2010 at 10:57 pm

    Wow Lucy! I feel icky and disturbed hearing about this guys behavior. I also feel a little compassion for him…sort of. I feel proud of you for the way you handled yourself and also protective and wanting to give you a hug.

    I feel shaky too.

  454.  #454Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 11:00 pm

    Thanks, Mary, I just saw what you wrote to me. Feels good to read that.

    I don’t often add people I don’t know to fb, but he was like, oh I’m a musician and here’s my website and you can find me on facebook with my name, here it is, and here’s my phone number, and…. I guess he created an illusion of familiarity for me.

    Thanks for your vote of confidence, Mary — that I can have a great guy. <3

  455.  #455mary on September 23, 2010 at 11:00 pm

    Laughing Goddess,

    that was an amazing article.

    thank you!

    i don’t think i’m pulling. i don’t know why, but i don’t… although probably everyone does it sometimes.

  456.  #456mary on September 23, 2010 at 11:04 pm

    well, i’m not calling my guy even though he asked me to. why not? i don’t know!

    i don’t want to bring it up to him that i was looking for him on the dating website.


    what to do now?

    maybe wait it out and see?

    just act like it didn’t happen?

    oh, today he was buy a new shirt, new pants and some new shoes.


    and he cleaned out his car.

    just adding it all up.

    but isn’t that just fear?

    why am i so afraid?

    because of R.

    in and out and in and out and in and out ad infinitim.

    i don’t want that any more.

    i won’t have that any more.

    i quit.

  457.  #457mary on September 23, 2010 at 11:06 pm

    he can call me.

    or not.

    it’s all fine, isn’t it?

    cuz there are zillions of guys out there…

  458.  #458Laughing goddess on September 23, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    I feel good watching my puppy run around playing with my neighbor dog that I am watching for a week. I feel so happy that he has companionship and a dog buddy. I feel a little jealous of how much fun he is having.

    I’ve been feeling bored the last few days. I planned to go out tonight with LI and some friends but I cancelled because I feel kinda down from being on my period. I encouraged LI to go out anyway and I felt kinda insecure when he left, he was looking really handsome and dressed up. I feel motivated to refocus my energy on being a siren and cd-ing myself and the world.

    I feel so comfortable with LI. I feel trusting of his love for me but I’ve also noticed some insecurity creeping in on my part. When I met him, I was feeling very goddessy and very much in my feminine energy. I have gotten comfortable lately and am finding myself slipping back into old patterns. I feel confident that I haven’t done anything to lose him but I do feel the need to refocus.

    Hmmm, feeling a little sad and a little bored with my life.

  459.  #459Lucy on September 23, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    Thanks, Laughing Goddess. I receive that hug! Feels good, thank you. I feel the protection, too. My siren sisters have got my back. yes.

    I feel a wee bit of compassion for him, too. He must be awfully wounded to react like that. 🙁

    But mostly I am giving compassion to myself right now. That little “you are hard to love” NV came up for a minute — “well, he’s only treating you that way because you are so darn hard to love, Lucy! Every man will find that out sooner or later.” 🙁

    I am not hard to love. (At least, not harder than anybody else is.)

    Thanks, LG. I feel your love. <3

  460.  #460Laughing goddess on September 23, 2010 at 11:10 pm

    Yup Mary! There are a zillion guys out there and there could be a zillion reasons why he logged on and why he washed his car, etc. It feels bad to jump to conclusions. I feel curious to read a happy ending story for this situation like the ones SS was writing above.

  461.  #461Laughing goddess on September 23, 2010 at 11:13 pm

    Lucy: what if you reframe being hard to live with having a high degree of difficulty?

    That’s a good thing right?

  462.  #462mary on September 23, 2010 at 11:16 pm

    yes, i want a happy ending story!

    i will tell you one tomorrow… or the next day… whenever it happens!

  463.  #463Laughing goddess on September 23, 2010 at 11:21 pm

    I feel weird because LI obviously loves me so much and is really in to me yet I have been feeling insecure lately. I feel worried that my insecurity is going to lower my level of attractiveness. I’ve been expressing some jealousy lately which feels icky. I don’t want to do that anymore. I want to get back to being my rockstar self. I know this guy is super in to me. I also know if something happens and we aren’t together I will still be okay. In fact, it might even be cool because then I would be open to dating this other guy that I have had a crush on for a while. I haven’t felt free to date him because he is a close friend of LI and I and that would just feel weird. I’m feel happy with LI but I’m just saying, if it doesn’t work out I will be okay.

    I am a goddess. Even though I am feeling low at the moment, I am still infinitely attractive and wonderful and loved. I don’t want to worry. I don’t want to feel bad. I want to let this go.

    Thank you!