If Your Ex is Still in Your Crowd – How to Circular Date

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Here’s the question:

“Saturday night I guy I met at Happy Hour (ex BF was with me in a group of friends) asked me to go to a house party he was hosting. He seems to be interested in me. Problem is that my ex BF may be there. Should I go? How should I treat my ex? Just pretend I have no interest or just mindset we are friends and be cool confident, no tension. Lean back and flirt madly with others? Or go with the attitude “everyone is a guy friend and just relax and not be nervous with anyone?” Easier said than done BTW.”

Here’s my answer:

Okay – you can’t pretend to be cool when you don’t feel cool.

This whole situation is what I call the “Rock Star Situation.” It’s when you’re in a big-time band, and your affair with the lead guitarist just ended, you have a broken heart and you still have to rehearse with him and sing your guts out on stage with him as if all is well. Or you have to leave the band.

This happened to Stevie Nicks of Fleetwood Mac many, many years ago – and she made her fortune and fame singing about her pain over it.

She stayed in the band, and then she became such a big star all by herself she went out alone and is still iconic. (And – I know she’s not everyone’s taste, but I love her.) That’s why I named this the Rock Star Situation.

The thing is – you have to BE COOL. And, though this is easy to say, yes, and challenging to “do,” yes, it’s not all that hard, really.

Yeah, it’s a “mindset” – but that mindset only seems so hard because we’re just not used to it.

We’ve never HAD that mindset before, so it seems foreign. The only way we can even imagine it is to think of pasting it ON ourselves, and pretending to be that.

But we CAN be that “Rock Star.”

1. Imagine yourself a little bigger than you are – energy wise and star-power-wise.

Imagine you’re in the middle of a room and everyone wants a piece of you. Now, you can either think everyone wants a piece of you because they have ulterior motives and you’re really worthless – or you can think that you’re amazing and so of course everyone wants you.

PICK the one where they want you because you’re amazing, even if you don’t believe it – (it’s just your imagination…right?)

2. Now imagine yourself where you hang out – all kinds of people – and you have friends who you know like you, and there are people you don’t know, and there are your “exes.” All of them. They’re sitting at a table at the restaurant, at the corner of the living room at the party, in the same pew in church. They’re talking and looking at you.

What are you imagining them thinking and saying? Are they comparing notes and calling you a “loser”? Are they comparing notes and saying what a great woman you are and how they screwed up? Are they saying what a great “friend” you were? Are they actually ignoring you altogether and talking about the woman sitting next to you?

Since this is your imagination, and you can’t know what any of these imaginary men are thinking and saying – you can’t know what’s “true.” You can only make it up.

So – what are you making up? Are these men talking about you, or the woman next to you? Do they think you were (and are) hot? – or do they think you’re sweet and nice and smart and…that’s it? Remember – you CAN’T KNOW – you can only make it up!

Now – here’s where the rock star thing happens:

3. Make up a story that’s GOOD. Even if your best friend was listening in and could tell you exactly what the men were “saying” – she couldn’t tell you what they really thought and felt. No one could – so your ONLY OPTION is to make up a story for yourself.

A woman who’s been raised with abuse and considers neglect and rejection to be “love” will make up that they think she’s a loser.

A woman who lives small and feels insecure and questions her worth makes up a story where she’s “okay” but ignored. Passed over for the other woman.

A woman who’s really strong and smart may make up that she “doesn’t care WHAT they think!”

A Rock Star (and I’ll tell you about Jade, the model hopeful from America’s Next Top Model did with this in the next post…) will make up that those men want her badly, and that she’s out of reach and that the men are just fine, but useless to her, because she’s “too cool….gotta go.”

It’s not a “mindset” – it’s a made up story. And anyone can make it up – even you and me.


So – make it up good. That’s all you have to do. You’ll giggle the first time you try it. You’ll get goose bumps. You’ll decide that you’re outrageous. And you’ll LIKE feeling outrageous – if you let yourself.

So – tell us a made-up story (that just might be true, because you can’t know, right? ) about how every man in the world – especially that guy in the corner who had his shot at you a year back – wants you…bad. I want to hear!

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Turtle Girl on March 21, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    Oh I am sorry, but this is just terrible. Feels like a total bullshit lie. I don’t like this at all. Pretend to be cool no matter what. Tell me how does that happen. We are supposed to be feeling our feelings and well being “cool” just isn’t real to me. This is conflicting and superficial. It sucks.

  2.  #2heartbeat on March 21, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    Subscribing from phone.

  3.  #3heartbeat on March 21, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    I’m imagining they are all watching and lusting after me, they are in awe and silently cheering me on. That’s when I imagine ALL my exes in a group. Yet if I imagine just my most recent man there I feel insecure and shaky. I can put on the act but feel sick inside.

    Food for thought…

  4.  #4Katie on March 21, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    This post just made me think about seeing the little picture when I get fixated on one man. It’s a reminder to look to see the bigger picture especially now.
    I have moved on in myself after a break up last year, it has taken a long time. We split because of the fact that I invested emotionally and he didn’t (a bit like Kate in the post a few days ago). But I need to focus on the bigger picture, my future, my life and hopefully the next man for me are all in the bigger picture of life. Cos I sure won’t find it any other place. I choose, it is my choice not to see ‘small’ anymore.

  5.  #5Daria on March 21, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    Omg I LOVE this! I do this all the time and imagine the man wanting me!! ohhh it feels goodo good good… will be practicing more! didn’t think of throwing them all in there at once hehe…

    I want to hear the next post

    I really like this exercise how it gives me something to focus on not just my nvs … and how i feel more on the ground and goddessy, and how it attracts men’s energy .

    I imagine I am the target like in circular dating..

    oh well if i put guywhohadababy yes i can imagine him wanting me, an di also feel attracted to him, im not feelingthe he’s useless feeling… i feel a lil on edge hoping he’ll approachme

    i’ll be tweaking

  6.  #6Bliss on March 21, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    I am liking this post,
    I can’t wait to try it.
    Need a situation, and i am thinking ladies, I might try it at work.
    It maynot be ideal, all opinions are welcomed.
    The men out number the woman 10 to 1.

    But it can also can be difficult in your work place.

  7.  #7Daria on March 21, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    i got my period. 4 times in a row!!! thank you Angels! I think this is a first time in my life… or second… i’m getting in rhythm with nature.

    up next… completely healing my kidney bladder infection

    yes i hear the advice for D- Mannose everyone. duly noted. It didn’t wokr for me last time, and I will keep in mind that i’ve heard it here about 4 times… so intuition knows that. Thank you.

  8.  #8Linda on March 21, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    TUrtle Girl, Bless your heart… Be you !


  9.  #9Daria on March 21, 2010 at 9:36 pm

    feelin a lil sad

    i just missed a call from my after-midnite date last nite…

    and he didnt leave a message but he did leave 2 texts…

    he reminds me of one my ex, who i also missed a call from and just got one from him

    both of them seem a lil immature, they dont seem geared on dating but more on “hanging out”

    so my ex called and asked me do i want to kick it?
    i said im feeling mellow and i dont want to go out tonite

    he said ok do ur thing i just wanted to see what was up with you

    i said ok thatnk you

    he said ok bye – but he sounded disappointed

    and i feel a lil sad

    i feel good that he called me… and i feel a lil sad that i have the thought that he will “never” get it together and step up….

    tho last time i saw him he claimed he loves me now… and he can trust me and wants to be with me…

    yeah but will he ever be able to DATE me? I dono…

    i feel sad

    kina reminds me of this new man… yes u texted me an i told u im not into texts

    and now u called but no message

    yes i have a work voicemail but still.

    i am actually gonna cahnge that work voicemail… men really get scared of leaving messages hearing it

    im going to do that now

  10.  #10Bliss on March 21, 2010 at 9:47 pm

    Hugz Daria

    You have always had great advice for me. I am such a mess up, that I can only send you lots of hugz !!
    As I read your post I felt sad that you were feeling sad.

  11.  #11Daria on March 21, 2010 at 9:52 pm

    Thank you Bliss!

    Hugs back!!!

    I don’t like to hear you write that you are such a mess up. That feels bad. You are a Goddess!



  12.  #12Daria on March 21, 2010 at 10:19 pm

    Feeling better!!

  13.  #13Bliss on March 21, 2010 at 10:21 pm

    I should not say that.
    I get very confused with his ways/games.

    Text he misses me while he’s away.

    now back – ignores me.

    Texts me today saysing sorry to me for him always being sad.

    I think the end is near, and he will tell me he’s leaving. Its easier to run away from your problems and blame something or someone else for them, than to admit that he does have a problem..

    Hooo hummmmm

  14.  #14mary on March 21, 2010 at 11:29 pm

    Well, I like this post, too.

    Instead of all my old flames (because I could care less about them), I’ll imagine seeing R around town with someone new (probably very beautiful), and I’ll imagine him thinking,”Wow, she looks gorgeous!” about me! and she’ll be thinking, “Oh, so that’s Mary. She IS amazing.”

    Turtle Girl, it seems to me that what Rori was saying about not knowing what they’re thinking is the key. If I saw R around town with someone new and very beautiful, feelings of fear and shame could swamp me if I’m THINKING that they’re THINKING that I’m inferior in some way. But if I’m IMAGINING that they’re THINKING something very positive about me, my feelings might be lesser and more manageable. I might even feel some happiness for them! Because I have my own exciting life, and I’m running around town looking good!

    For me, this post is just about practicing beforehand, and borrowing the situation so that if the the situation happens, I’m not sideswiped and shocked, and my thinking doesn’t jump to the negative. I want to train it to jump to the positive.

    I like it.

    : )

  15.  #15Daria on March 22, 2010 at 2:32 am

    Bliss — I would feel glad and relieved to hear about You and Your Feelings much more than about Him.

  16.  #16Daria on March 22, 2010 at 3:18 am

    so every guy in the world wants me bad! and wait… nm… EVERYONE thinks im just the smartest woman in the world… not juste men women too. everyone comes to me for advice and feels blessed by it and even by my presence. because my energy is so strong and healing

    i feel mega nvs

    i feel fear of being hated and ridiculed

    I hate it when people say i do not like you. oh yeah? well i wanna slap you and i just might. then u can really not like me. except youll be the one feeling humiliated.

    i feel angry and i feel stuck. i feel unsafe. i love my feelings. i feel triggered.

    i feel furious when i say helpful stuff to people and they dont do what i tell them to do. yes i do. i feel furious. i want to slap their stupid lil heads and Make them do it and then say seeee how i was right?

    interesting thought that this is how i was taught. i guess this is how i was taught school stuff along with a lot of romanian children as far as i know. well at least my cousins i know . so yeah guess what. i did really well in school. like brilliantly geniously well. cuz i was forced to do it

    so maybe i should force my kids to do stuff but then again i dont want to

    what if they suck and arent good at anythign without my forcing? what if they ARE good and even better without being forced?

    i feel afriad theyll be wimps and cowards and snobby and shallow and ill hate them

    i dont want to hate my children

    i feel afriad

    i feel so judgemental

    I do not like people who are wimps cowards or snobby and shallow.

    mirror mirror

    its me who doesnt like people

    i love my wimp self

    i love my coward self

    i love my snobby self

    i love my shallow self

    i feel scared and kina numb i feel frozen

    ugh i dont want to say fuckin frozen cuz that reminds me of cold and its not cold

    i feel immobile poised on alert

    u know the hiding behind the tree in the jungle feeling

    i want to feel happy

    that would feel like relaxing and imagining siren island with all the sirens happy and joyful

    i want to feel loved by everyone

    that would feel like bearming filling up with a huge smile coming out on my face and warmnes and velvet tingles coming up in my chest and to my face

    i want to be honored for my advice

    that would feel like calm, secure, feeling safe sharing, feeling confident of good outcome… that would feel like excitement that would feel like slight smile, that would feel like powerfulness that would feel like hehe and laughing that would feel like being bigger in my body

    i feel like im not safe. i feel like on the outskirts someone is judging me, plotting against me, whispering with others against me. i feel so angry and judgemental. i feel frustrated at the unfairness. i feel like calling them names in my head. i feel so much resentment. i really dont like them. i feel like im not enjoying myself with their energy around. im super feeling of energy. ugh i feellike i want to attack them. i feel pist. i feel pist. i feel pist.

    waht i want is for them to say ohh wow i really misjudged you. i thought of you one way and really yorue not. you are actually really nice and smart . wow i feel helped and i feel love for you. i want to make up and be friends.

    in my head their voice is saying hah. u wish u stupid bitch. i never would say some shit like that to you. id rather just keep you cold and civil, that way you can never get to me. i cant stand u.

    and i cant stand this feeling of feeling angry and fuckin feeling this cold wall. i feel like my vulnerability will be crushed. i feel like no one is even seeing my vulnerability in saying wha im saying because theyre too busy judging me and saying wow look at her she thinks shes so entitled. she actually thinks everyone is gonna liek her just cuz she wants to. what a ridiculous girl. i just keep clear of people like that. shes way into herself and thinks shes all that but is really stupid and worthless and a failure. it must suck to be her parents poor people have to deal with her all day long. I really dont like her.

    i feel furious. I feel triggered back to elementary school. I wish i beat up a lot more kids in elementary school. someone shoulda told me u can still go to college if you get suspended in elementary school, because a lot of peopel would have gotten a real hard core no hold back head smashed on the concrete ass whooping.

    i love my feelings of feeling resentful and stuck and unable to deal. i love my feelings of not being wanted appreciated and left out.

    i love my feelings of all the wimpy people excluding ME and the irony of it and the impotence feeling of not even being able to risk to beat them up.

    if i wasnt so scared of my parents i would have beat them up big time.

    i feel numb. i feel so numb and totally lost and left out. i really just dont know what to do. i feel like theres just a wall that separates me from them. theres NOTHING i can do that will get thru this wall. i feel alone and cold and alone and cold and alone knowing that i have the power to beat them up but not doing it because of consequences.

    yeah i couldnt beat them up with words. but i couldve wooped their ass like they had never seen before

    aha so thats where my wordlessness comes from. from not being able to speak english

    fuckin stupid asses traumatized me. i wish I woulda beat them up. omg can you imagine how amazing? bitch you called me what? now cry

    call me something again i dont think so.

    i feel totally lost in this. of COURSE i know all the right answers. Im SMART. of COURSE it wont be right if we do it your way and your way goes against my way because i actually know what the fuck im talking about like i always do and YOU DONT. youer just a stupid girll who is doing her stupid thing whatever it is that yall stupid girls do which is not beat people up apparently just exclude people and stonewall them and be bitches that i hate and that should get thier ass kicked

    i love my feelings

    who wouldve known id get here?

    i would like this healed. yes it feels impossible. i want to heal it. i know it is possible. possible like the sun rising tomorrow. thanks angels.

    nite nite


    healing this will be BIG!!

  17.  #17Beth on March 22, 2010 at 3:38 am

    I like this and will definitely try it as I am involved in two community groups where I will see my ex often. . .it hasn’t happened yet, but will next month and I am dreading it, so hopefully this will help calm my nerves.

    Turtle Girl, you are AMAZING! I’ve followed your story and feel your hurt and frustration. Be good to yourself, and I am sending you a hug right now!

    Last night I played what I thought was a silly imaginary game because I’ve been in such a funk this past week and missing him (or tricking myself into thinking I’m missing him?) Anyway, I remembered a post from Rori where she told someone in a toxic relationship that “HE is NOTHING, HE is NOTHING TO YOU” and so I imagined that my ex was really nothing, that he was a made up cartoon character and why would I be so caught up and pining away over a cartoon character that was not good for me? Maybe it’s silly, but it made me laugh and it made me feel better!

    So, I see this as something similar as the “Rock Star” scenario in that I obviously know it’s not real, but when I picture it and imagine it that way it makes it much easier for me not to spend my evenings crying over him. . . .

    That’s why I love this forum, I feel safe to express whatever I want, and I’ve gotten SO MANY ideas and tools from you all.

  18.  #18Tina on March 22, 2010 at 4:01 am

    All my exes are sitting at the table in a coffee shop, I jog in (cause Im workin on my fitness or whatever) doesn’t matter how I got there. They stop doing what their doing, they think oh shit! here she comes, were a bunch of fucking goofs for sitting here, talking to each other “they think.” I laugh because they do look funny sitting there talking to each other – girlfriends are there too. I leave then they (my exes) beat each other up 🙂

  19.  #19Tina on March 22, 2010 at 4:03 am

    I love Stevie Nicks!

  20.  #20Beth on March 22, 2010 at 4:18 am

    And he isn’t my real ex, he’s my imaginary ex, because it was an “imaginary” relationship. Quoting from the same Rori post, “You are not in love with him, you are addicted to him.”

    I “Hired” him to abuse me, and he did one hell of a job! Now, I’m FIRING him!! I feel like a dumb ass though, 1. For putting up with the bad behavior, and 2. FOR MISSING HIM!! What is wrong with me?? WOW, I must really hate myself, but I’m learning, and I’m waking up, and Thank God for you Rori because I am starting to “get it”. It scares me, but it’s starting to look and feel better. . . one little thought and feeling at a time.

  21.  #21Simply Shannon on March 22, 2010 at 7:31 am

    Subscribing for now.

    Mary: You said the exact same thing I was thinking to say to Turtle Girl. I feel insecure because of what **I** think that they are thinking about **me**.

    Turtle Girl: I had the same reaction as I was reading but then something clicked. Mary wrote exactly what I thought about it. However, if I’m sitting at a party and I just can’t get there (the NVs are talking louder than my imagination can make up a new story), then maybe I’ll leave the party because it doesn’t feel good. I don’t believe Rori is suggesting we stick it out and “act” cool. If we aren’t cool with what’s happening or someone asks how we feel, we say “I feel nervous. My ex is here.” That’s real and truthful. Make sense?

  22.  #22lm on March 22, 2010 at 7:48 am

    i love this!

    when i met my bf i was a total rockstar and didn’t even know it! (i realise now because of rori’s work how sireny i used to be!!). then i let him hook me and i became so focused on him that i lost my spark and my edge. after a long painful journey i have it back. i’m glad i went through all of the pain because i feel really healed and strong now.

    i work with him and nothing feels better than walking around the office looking cute and feeling powerful and into myself and great at my job. thanks rori!!!

  23.  #23Megan on March 22, 2010 at 9:03 am

    this blog speaks directly to me and the situation I have been dreading for the past couple months…I feel confused and anxious…I made a post a while back about how my ex is returning to work soon and I don’t know how to “be” and everyone tells me to just “be normal”, “be cool”.
    Rori told me to be myself, feel what I feel, say what I feel, and not pretend to feel any differently. I have been trying to convince myself to do this but keep playing out past scenarios where I was myself at work and clearly upset and he GOT OFF on it and played on it more.
    I read this and it seems the complete opposite…I feel so confused and so scared of being the “wrong” way around him in a way that only triggers more rage and upset for me! I feel I want to be genuine and authentic but I also don’t want to allow him to simply use my feelings to stroke his ego and be the one in power.

  24.  #24Simply Shannon on March 22, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Megan: Is it possible that you assumed he got off on seeing you upset? That maybe you made that up in your mind? That your nasty voices believe that he hates you and wants to see you hurting?

    Of course I would feel furious if I believed someone was getting off on me being upset. But maybe he wasn’t getting off on it. Maybe he can’t bear the thought of being without you but he believes you won’t have him back.

    I guess what I hear Rori saying is that WE can choose the scenario we want to believe. Those things we assume other people are thinking are just the nasty voices in our own heads.

    Suppose I feel like crap one day and trip on a curb. I look up and see a woman smiling at me, and I think she’s laughing at me. Maybe the reality is that the smile was for the person behind me and had NOTHING to do with me. My brain totally made up the “story”.

    I don’t believe Rori is saying fake it. She’s just giving us another way to handle this situation. A tool for us to use.

  25.  #25mary on March 22, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    Hey, those were my thoughts exactly, Simply Shannon. Megan, maybe he’s nervous about coming to work because YOU will be there!

  26.  #26Rachel on March 22, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    Hi everyone…

    I was just reading over some old blog posts from 2008 and saw where Rori mentioned she was going to write about Emotional Orgasm. However, I can’t find the post she mentions. Does anyone (or Rori) remember this and if so, could you please send me the link for it. Thanks so much!

    Hope you’re all having a beautiful day.

  27.  #27Daria on March 22, 2010 at 4:57 pm


    The two ‘immature’ oops im labeling them – relabel to good ? – men pursuing me are at it again!!!

    My ex, and the guy who reminds me of him. They love me they like me they wanna spend time with me.

    They TEXT (not call). When they call, they ask about kickin it Right Now.

    Now, this is all stuff I used to do. I used to NEVER make plans and always be happy to kick it right now when I was free.

    But now I’ve fallen into “grown woman” habit of accepting planned, romanticamundo dates.

    I would feel happy to spend time with them, but I feel better on a romantic planned date.

    Impromptu kickin it or – you wanna drank? — (assuming out of a bottle in the car maybe with more people) USED to be cool, and I still find it cool, WITH FRIENDS. but with men wanting to date me, I expect more.

    what do you you ladies think?

    anyone who actually practices impromptu “chillin” … how do you handle this with men who like you, rather than friends?

    my thinking is some women will be familiar with this and some will find it extremely bizzare

    would i be “closed off” that I want scheduled, planned, traditional dates? Part of the fun for me is that I DID NOT have a lot of these, a lot more “chillin” in the past. In fact, I used to be the ANTI – DATER. What you want to take me to the movies? Tha’ts boring. Let’s hang out in the car and smoke or drink…

    Now I’ve switched gears because I don’t want to be so buddy buddy male buddy as I used to be. Now I’m wanting to be traditional Diva.

    So hmmm…

    how do I say it to them? and am I missing out on my spontaneous fun opportunities?

  28.  #28Daria on March 22, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    ok I’m texting them this:

    I would feel happy to spend time with you… and I feel better on a romantic planned date.

    Kickin it used to be cool, and I still find it cool, with friends. but with men wanting to date me, I expect more.

    Ok im gonna text one to one of them, and one to the other as an experiment no wait… I want my ex to get the first part too… hmm maybe he’ll get both

    new guy will get it in pieces depending what he responds

  29.  #29Daria on March 22, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    geez i solve my issues fast now huh! yay!! wow!

    so i texted new man the first part

    I would feel happy to spend time with you… and I feel better on a romantic planned date.

    so he texts me

    jus playin (1)

    ok ima take you to greasy burger tonite (2)

    so i wrote back

    lol. are yous erious thers a place called that ? i want to go if its for real… i feel a lil confused

    now i feel a lil embarassed cuz maybe the texts came out of order

    well his bad

    now he knows im serious

    and im down to go to greasy burger lol

  30.  #30mary on March 22, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    well, i love it that you said yes to the greasy burger!

  31.  #31Tina on March 22, 2010 at 6:53 pm

    I smiled to myself all day long, thinking about my “Rock Star situation” I also remembered what 1 1/2 yr.mans “girlfriend’ said to me “you think your better than everyone else” I thought to myself , if I had a response it would be, No, I dont think Im better than everyone else, but I do feel WORTHY! I giggled at the thought of running into him somewhere today almost wanting to have a run in with him.

  32.  #32Daria on March 22, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    Tina – I think youre better than everyone else!! yeah!!! tina’s the best!!! woooo hooooo!!!! Goddess Tina!!!!

  33.  #33Tina on March 22, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    The car wash guy talked to me today, he was “gossiping” lol. He said the lady that was dropped off her car to get it detailed, had “issues”. He could tell by looking at her car? I was thinking wow cool ! I picked up a hitch hiker tonight, I dont usually but the hitch hiker guy said , yeah usually people that have hitch hiked, usually will pick up hitch hikers, I was like wow cool.

  34.  #34Tina on March 22, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    Thank you Daria 🙂 I’m a Rock Star! Just a little bigger energy wise and star power wise 🙂

  35.  #35EarthDancer on March 22, 2010 at 9:41 pm

    Daria; I feel your text is brilliant 🙂

    I still feel a bit nervous stating what I want on a date, but I hold my breath and THEY’VE SAID OK!! whew! I hope it works for you 2…PS I gave my number like you suggested and I had 3 phone calls tonight & coffee date tomorrow…THANK YOU! 🙂 XOXO

  36.  #36Tina on March 23, 2010 at 4:36 am

    Daria, that’s pretty much what the young people do around here, is drive around and drink, drive around the back woods and drink beer. I dont know what advice I can give you. If the guy likes you and is assuming that drinking in a car is a date, then I would say something like, I feel bored, I want to go on a date maybe even do this over the phone before the “date” I would open up the convo about what he thinks is a date. He might bring flowers this time lol. I would feel uncomfortable if my date was drinking and driving.

  37.  #37Soignée on March 23, 2010 at 8:06 am

    Dear Daria,

    a traditional diva has not to reply to these calls.
    You want to spend time in a romantic planned way, it is the unique way the Diva does. And you are right to accept only this kind of invitations.
    If I were in this situation, I would say in this way:
    “Certainly, I will go out with you. But if manage to be original and a gentleman. Otherwise, I feel bored. I have to leave. Please let me know if you have nice ideas. Ciao.”

  38.  #38Soignée on March 23, 2010 at 8:12 am

    And dear Daria,
    I forgot to write you. If you do not like them to text you. so do not answer their text messages. They will call if they are interested in you, otherwise you loose the people who do not see your importance even to call you. please take care of you.
    You are a gorgeous diva

  39.  #39mary on March 23, 2010 at 11:16 am

    Hello Soignee,

    Your words are so wise. You seem to really know men. I wonder if you might tell me your thoughts about my dilemma?

    I’m wondering what to say to J, who is married but almost divorced. Or that’s what I thought until two days ago, when he told me that neither of them had actually filed for divorce! And I have been talking to him on the phone and answering emails, etc. He was a love of mine when we were in college.

    Now I feel as though I’ve been strung along and deceived. And if you remember, last winter I got two proposals but turned them down. One of the reasons was because I was waiting for J.

    And I know that waiting for a guy is not cool! Yes, I have read all of Rori’s literature. But something inside me was waiting, is waiting… as divorce is probably inevitable.

    Now I’m mad, though. I’ve definitely been put into Wings position, and I want to get out as quickly as possible.

    Last email was about a book, and he just emailed back to ask more about it. I don’t even want to have contact with him at all. I don’t even want to give him a speech. I feel like I’m OVER him.

    But he is an old lover. We do call each other on our birthdays. He isn’t a person to give the silent treatment to.

    What would you say to him if you were me?

  40.  #40Daria on March 23, 2010 at 11:48 am

    Thanks ladies – yes i usually don’t answer texts. I answer when I feel like it. Tiss true that when I don’t answer they eventually call.

    Last nite a man called me that was supposed to come see me yesterday. I said hi. he said hi. etc I said what happend I thought you were gonna see me today – no loss of words here lol – he says oh yeah… my bad… oh… im sorry… i fucked up… i fucked up huh?

    im like… umm well… yeah… hes like yeah… well i will can i call u later… i said WITHOUT THINKING YEAHHHH

    i said nicely ;okay call me when you can come see me

    he says… call you when i can come see u? so dont call until i can come see u…

    i said hmm…. YUP


    the end

    ok so the new man from last nite who wanted to drink in the car and then said greasy burger

    then he says haha no i made it up but now it does sound good.

    then he says

    i like to go do things too. i don’t plan them. i just do them.

    i wrote back part 2:

    kickin it used to be cool and its still cool with friendsd. with men that want to date me i expect more.

    he didnt say anything

    now he texted me good morning hehe

    oh im practicing a new tool. the tool is dont get daria mad or upset. its kinda like following what feels good, and framing it this way is WORKING

    i noticed and the acupuncturist told me that getting me upset lowers my health. so now when i notice im thinking thoughts that are getting me upset im like uhoh cant do that… sorry… or even with people im just figuring… uhoh yes but i dont want to get daria upset… its important that she stays happy and even keel

    wow im discovering how many times i was getting daria upset! it was like a habit to get her upset certain times, like when shes taking her seat belt off, or when she was getting out the car, or when she changed her mind

    ps she also was constantly second guessing her decision… ie i want to smoke no thats bad… no wats bad is my thought getting me upset…

    or… i want to clean my car… no i should go to the store… etc etc

    so now im practicing keeping daria feeling good…

    its like working a new muscle and well… it feels good

    i feel excited that it will soon become effortless yiipeee

    thank u

  41.  #41Daria on March 23, 2010 at 11:50 am

    Mary – i would tell him i feel shocked and kind of betrayed … im feeling really confused and not good right now … and well… kinda furious…

    and that im gonna be going to greasy burger and not saving him any fries

  42.  #42mary on March 23, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    haha! that’s funny daria!

  43.  #43mary on March 23, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    i like that – keeping daria from being upset tool – but doesn’t daria want to feel ALL of her feelings, even the upset ones, in order to experience the richness of life, the confusion of standing where a pathway takes a fork and the tremendous lows as well as the highs?

  44.  #44mary on March 23, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    once you told me to FIND the ANGER, and that’s working well for me… it gives me energy to get away when i need to get away. without it, i maneuver around in don’t let Mary get upset, and i stay in abusive situations by sidetracking myself.

  45.  #45Daria on March 23, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    sure she does. if she finds herself in there shell be feeling her way out… and meanwhile shes keeping herself from going in the pits when she can SEE shes was heading there

    picking whta feels good

    ie – there wont be any stores open… ohh that doesnt feel good to think about… lallaa im feelng good here

    Allow your body to become your road map to the truth — trust no value system more than your own elemental physical response.”

    – Mama Gena

  46.  #46mary on March 23, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    hmmmmm… i’ll have to think about that as i try to get more in touch with my body.

  47.  #47Daria on March 23, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    mm abusive situations dont feel good… feeling angry feels better…

    i actually Feel better in the body

    being in icky feelling situation wouldnt feel good… so that id be moving away from it

    this is choosing my THOUGHTS

    kinda like the front page tool of imagining exes talkinig good about me

    i have some habit thoughts that take me down feel bad roads

    the thing about thoughts is I ALSO can control WHAT I MAKE UP

    so i can switch from bad feeling road to good… ohh…

    i don/t and can’t relaly control the emotions

    the thought Leads to an emotion and certain thoughts lead to Good feeling emotions in my body

    so i pick those


    its mostly about not beating myself up in mini ways all day like i now notice i was doing

    ie – dont sit like that, dont do this, ohhh that was stupid, oh etc etc

    instead im like… ohh its ok… oh im all good… ohh im a Goddess, ohh im innocent and loving and loved and safe lalala…

    i mean… how many times am i really gonna get robbed at nite driving… so far not many… but i tense up EVERY TIME… i can be aware of my surroundings without scary thoughts dominating and like it was really happening…

    etc etc

    lots of lil ways

    like right now i caould be like… ohhhh no one understands exactly the quality of what im saying

    or instead im thinking lalala welll this is great im sharing and the lil inklling will be planted and shared and peoiple will use it and do their own thing with it lallalalalaaa

  48.  #48mary on March 23, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    i’m going to my storage room to spend a few hours looking for some papers, so i put on a lace blouse, some high heels and a ton of makeup. what’s up with that? who knows…

  49.  #49mary on March 23, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    yes, well i do like it. my NVs are different. they don’t put me down like that. instead, they WORRY. worry that i might not attract another handsome man, worry that i might not ever find anyone i like, worry that i might not be successful, worry that i’m just getting older, worry that i’m too far away from my kids. and that doesn’t feel so upset, because i have answers for the worry. i always ask myself, “well, what’s the worst thing that would happen?”, and i picture myself having fun in that situation, and looking on the bright side, and flashing my smile at people and usually it’s okay…

  50.  #50Megan on March 23, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    Simply Shannon,

    first of all, THANK YOU for answering me and making me feel better. I would LOVE for your story to be the case!
    to answer your question,
    no, I am not positive but it sure did seem like it. how do you tell the difference b/n nasty voices and intuition?
    I know I have been POSITIVE about things which have later turned out to be wrong. on occasion, i have known myself to put things together in my head which my imagination (or nasty voice) runs with until it becomes “true”…
    but I can recall several times coming into work after having had arguments and he almost always
    seems louder, and more jovial/cutting up than usual, as if he is unaffected by it all and wants to prove this to me, which pisses me off even more.

    to make matters worse, i was with this guy on and off for over 2 yrs while he struggled with his fear of “getting hurt again” and is now in a relationship with a girl (which was set up by a mutual friend) who is a total downgrade from me.
    as immature as this is, he has put up a couple sappy statuses on facebook in the past 2-3 months
    before he entered this relationship but no other contact.
    but how am I to know they’re about me?
    there is no way for me to know anything and the uncertainty/doubting of it all KILLS ME on a daily basis.
    I don’t even know what to think, let alone feel. i hate it.
    and Mary, he has shown up to work twice already to be put back on the schedule and he certainly doesn’t seem nervous about it. then again,
    appearances can be decieving…

  51.  #51Daria on March 23, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Megan – the thing is, yes logically we can assume something

    but (check out Byron Katie’s work on stuff like this)

    we never really KNOW KNOW if something is true, and we really never know KNOW what someone else is thinking…

    he may even say he’s thinking something and well, not be thinking it, right?

    we are in control of not all our thoughts, but SOME. so we can jump in there into OUR OWN THOUGHTS and add some good ones:

    ala well, i dont Know KNOW what hes thinking, even if in the past when i felt this way it turned out bad… so Im gonna CHOOSE TO THINK he thinks im great!

    Im gonna choose to think everyone wants me!

    (yes you will get the nv that says noooo… its not possiblle… noooo u suck)

    and then to the nv say. hugs thanks for trying to protect me. i choose to think this anyway. or… so what? i choose to think this anyway

    and then you can be babystepping to feeling good, and living the fantasy you made, and kinda like… poking the toe in to it starting to be true… because what WE think and hold securely becomes reality, others pick up on it if we hold the vibe steady…

    to sum it up:
    since you dont Know KNOW what he’s thinking, you’re making it up anyway (usually from past experience so the mind says it will be this way in the future – but it DOESNT HAVE TO) so MAKE IT UP GOOD!! we choose our thoughts, so lets choose to think that if he scowls our way it means… uumm… that its a sign that we’re gonna win the lotttery!! whatever!!! something that feels good!!!

    feeling good for an instant is great, and from there theres so much freedom to feel good some more and more!

  52.  #52EarthDancer on March 23, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    Hello divine Divas: 🙂

    I feel I can relate to your feelings about feeling authentic and feeling uncomfortable visualizing or stating something that is not YET true…


    This type of visualizations are used by therapists ALL THE TIME, not to mention Olympic and professional athletes…are they ‘wrong’ to believe they are the best and they deserve to win?

    …the MIND does not know what is true and what is not…that is how we can internalize feelings of unworthiness and/or shame when we are mistreated or abused as children…we believed it was true because someone TOLD us it was…


    why not use this remarkable gift to LOVE ourselves into the type of person & life that we desire?!!

    *Hugs* xoxo

  53.  #53EarthDancer on March 23, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    P.S. sorry for the syntax errrors, I’m feeling, not editing 🙁 LOL

  54.  #54Bliss on March 23, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    I wanted to say – I do this to get thru sometimes,
    whether its at work, or going to the dentist.

    I pretend

    I may have had a really bad night with ( My Guy)
    or like yesterday he rang me at work to tell me he’s thinking of moving out.

    I close my eye’s – think about something wonderful – and the call was a good call – with the most amazing news, thru the rest of the day..

    At the dentist – i am a nervous wreck , and i feel he is judging me, they are so close to you, they can smell your perfume, see your wringles, the odd pimple. I feel so judged and exposed while I lie there , so i pretend that I am this Beautiful Goddess , and this dentist should feel lucky that I chosen him to work on my teeth.

    I probably have made no sense at all ..

    but wanted to share..

  55.  #55Debbie on March 23, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    Thank you Roni,
    I have went through the Modern Siren program, Wow!
    I have been following your emails for some time now and I have tried to jump in from time to time, however, I don’t ever seem to get it right?
    But I love what I am reading, it hasn’t helped the relationship I left, but it has helped me heal! I am dating several other men and I am leaning back and not doing anything but being who I believe I was created to be the whole time!
    I have alot of questions, I would love to ask but I really don’t know how to get on here so if someone can guide me I would appreciate it! Also what program would you suggest I order next?
    Dari you used to scare me but I have come to love every word that comes from you! Thank you!

  56.  #56Megan on March 23, 2010 at 7:34 pm


    thank you for explaining that so beautifully.
    I’ve briefly checked out some of Byron Katie’s stuff on amazon but never actually read it..
    I hear all of what you’re saying and I get it and will certainly put it to use.
    Not to discount ANY of this b/c it sounds like a very smart tool but,
    for me it is still unsettling to not know KNOW (as you put it).
    i feel that I am rambling.
    I guess I am just STRUGGLING to make SENSE out of it and therefore would rather know the reality of the situation than a made-up best-case-scenario.
    i.e., I am desperate for ANSWERS.
    does this make sense?
    I hope I have not offended anyone.

  57.  #57gina on March 23, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    wow…I’m feeling weird…At the comedy club from which I have been fired, I had a sexual encounter with my boss several months back. He’s a total bad boy (yeah it’s a label, but it’s way easier than describing the rage and frustration I have felt consistently ever since I made the poor choice of sleeping with him). Anyhoo, one of his “henchmen” (managers) just contacted me on facebook to see if I’d like to have dinner sometime. He said that he never asked before cause they’re not supposed to intermingle with staff (the owner is the exception to his own rule) and I feel compelled to give him a chance. But I keep remembering the time that he came with a major sunburn cause he drank 30 beers (30!) and passed out with half his face exposed: one side was really red. Thinking about that, I feel very resistant to going…I dunno…feelin weird about it. I don’t feel very physically attracted or very interested, and already worried about the guilt of rejecting him…and eager to get away from that toxic little world…i dunno

  58.  #58gina on March 23, 2010 at 8:59 pm

    I am giving myself 3 months to make something really happen with True Beauty, or move on. Cause right now I’m depending primarily on restaurant jobs for income and I just don’t want to anymore. In some ways, I’m attached to the freedom. Like today, it was beautiful, and i got to enjoy happy hour in the middle of the day. But then I switched from feeling free to feeling like a slave when I went to train at my new restaurant job. I feel so annoyed by people. So. very. annoyed. And it just comes with the territory of serving. And my desire to not feel like a rotten bad person doing a rotten bad job outweighs my desire to fling food in some people’s face, but it’s sometimes a tough call (which is why I got fired. I didn’t fling food. But I did “talk back” to that boss that I shouldn’t have slept with)

  59.  #59gina on March 23, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    An interesting thing happened, though…I was being trained by this cute guy, and we spoke candidly about relationships a little. He’s married, but only cause he needed to be in order to be granted citizenship. I ended up telling him that I “don’t like men.” Which is really how I feel! And he’s pretty much a good example of why, but I felt like he was neutral territory – like I somehow didn’t think it would bother him for me to say that at all. But his vibe TOTALLY changed. it got all weird. I think he was flirting with me before, and then he turned cold and kinda annoyed. I could also see that he took it personally, and kinda wanted to change my opinion, but it was like he felt ashamed.
    But then a different guy, who comes off so very feminine that several people commented that he’s gay, told my cute trainer that he just didn’t understand “womanese”. He said that I was just sick of A-holes and of getting my heartbroken. That was more accurate, and yet, I suddenly felt like I went from the hot chick that they were all flirting with, to the “needy wounded” girl. I didn’t like it. Learned a lesson. But this bitterness towards men…not sure what to do with it.

  60.  #60Bliss on March 23, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    Gina – thats it..

    Bitterness – Yes..

    too many times bitten – and the bitterness takes over..
    I hear you..
    I feel the same. I have had the same guy break my heart year round for nearly 4 years now. its starting again.

    I am so bitter toward him now, i do not feel anything, cause if i am ever happy to see him it ends in disaster, so i am forever flat and miserable.

    When you work out how to get above keep me upto date,.

    i hate it as well…

  61.  #61gina on March 23, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    the bitterness is real, but if I’m honest with myself, it’s like I relish in it a little bit.. I dunno why I would want to relish in a hatred of men. That sounds evil. Maybe it’s a defense mechanism cause I feel powerless. Circular dating feels like a way to trick myself into feeling powerful, but the truth is that it feels crummy to go out with these unattractive men. I get the value, but it feels like taking some big awkward nasty tasting vitamin. I know it’s good for me but it’s gross.

  62.  #62Orna Walters on March 23, 2010 at 11:33 pm

    This post reminded me of a time (back in the day) when I was acting and I was cast in the play “Anne of A Thousand Days” about Anne Boleyn. I had a small part, a woman in the court, and there was a party scene where I played “The Rock Star!” I would flirt with every man on the stage!

    I got the best note ever from the director one evening after rehearsal, he said “Is Orna the only one who knows how to behave at a party?”

    The important thing to remember is that nothing has meaning except the meaning we give it. I’ve been telling clients the past year or so who tell me they are getting calls from creditors to decide that each call means “I believe in you!” Why else would they still be calling?

    Its the same thing here – our sub-conscious mind does not know the difference between what is real and what is imagined – so create your life! Exactly how you’d like it to be and soon you’ll live it too!

    Big Hug,

  63.  #63Soignée on March 24, 2010 at 4:00 am

    Dear Mary,

    if I were you,..
    In this kind of situation, I really understand you, because once I had the similar situation.
    I would definitely do in this way, it was the UNIQUE way to work.

    So, I would disappear. You would like to be polite, because he is an old lover etc. etc. I can imagine you were too nice for him and you want to be nice.
    But you do not want to explain anything to him.

    I would disappear WITHOUT EXPLANATIONS. WITHOUT EXPLANATIONS!!! It can seem rude, not polite, stupid etc. But it is the only way to work.

    You lose the interest. He will look for you, he will want to speak to you, he will want to find you. But…
    You lost interest in him, and you do not need the explanations. He will understand anything!!

    PLEASE DO NOT EXPLAIN ANYTHING!! He is aware of what he did. But he took you for a “doormat” girl (sorry for the word, but I was at the same place, so forgive me the word, but it is the truest word to use in this kind of situation.)
    He saw you as the second-class woman,because you were there for him. You do not need this man in your life.

    Maybe he will show up to speak with you. Please tell him when you see him” I have no time to talk to you.Sorry”. He will miss you, but you are not the second-class woman he wanted to have for his security in case he gets divorced, because he did not want to be alone. This is the truth.

    And do circular dating!!! You can do it!!

    Lose interest in him. If he comes after you, HE HAS TO WORK VERY VERY HARD TO GET YOU BACK!!! Please be the first class Diva! You are already the first class Diva! And do not allow anybody to doubt in this!!

  64.  #64Soignée on March 24, 2010 at 4:04 am

    Dear Mary,
    I forgot to add something. Maybe you want to share with him your feelings about how sad and betrayed you feel. He already does know this!! And the unique way to make him understand your importance in his life, is to be able to PAUSE. To make a break and that he does not have you in his life. If he misses you, he will try to get you back, if not, he will very soon forget about you.

    But you want the true love, don’t you?
    Please be wise.

  65.  #65Soignée on March 24, 2010 at 4:18 am

    Dear Ladies,

    I just wanted to share with you my joy, it was an exciting event. This morning I had an appointment with an official for an issue concearning me. So I wanted to be “dressed-up” and to make a good impression. So I was really really pretty.
    This man explained me the serious issue, but after that he told me that he would invite me some day to a beautiful restaurant in the country side.
    I was surprised and I am glad about it.
    So my circular dating starts again!!!!

    But the most amazing event happened later. I was passing by, and a car stopped next to me. This was my ex lover who broke my heart, this man because of whom I landed here on Rori’s site to get out of this pain.

    He stopped and asked me” How are you?” I answered”I am ok, and you?””Not so well, You give you now so much importance.” “Maybe”, was my answer( I did not answer him his last sms).”You look cute”. “Thank you”. After that I said him”I have to leave”. And I walked out. He sent me immediately a sms “Do you want to have a coffee with me?” I answered “I have queasiness of coffee”. He wrote me”Ok, as you want dear”.

    The most important thing: I had nothing inside me, no feelings like sadness, pain, NOTHING!!!!
    And the best thing is: I do not want to show up to people who made me suffer, in a sad way. I looked nice, I was smiling, beatiful. non-chalant. And I DID NOT CARE!!! And the people, they will always see me beautiful, smiling, I do not want to give them satisfaction to look defeated. NO, NO, NO. If I will have pain inside me, I won’t show it to them. They do not deserve to know the real me!! They made me suffer, but I did it, and I DO NOT CARE. I will work on me to be the best version of me and I won’t let me defeat by people who want only to take advantage of me, of my beautiful goddess soul. NO!!!

  66.  #66Lori on March 24, 2010 at 5:53 am


    I’m so happy for you! What a relief it must feel that he no longer has any power over you. I long to get to that place where if I see my ex, I no longer feel sad….

  67.  #67Tina on March 24, 2010 at 6:18 am

    Daria, I like “when someone scowls at me that means im going to win the lottery! 🙂 I have a meeting to go to later so this will help a lot thank you, Goddess Daria!

  68.  #68Rachel on March 24, 2010 at 7:21 am

    Dear Goddesses,

    I had an “AHA” moment this morning that I want to share. One of the men I’m seeing is teaching me such an important lesson!

    We have gone out a few times and I do like him a lot. BUT he is now raving about us being soulmates, about the deep and passionate connection that we share, that he has never felt anything like this … and the latest, that he adores the deep look of desire in MY eyes every time I look at him! YIKES!

    Wow… this makes me feel squirmy, pressured and like running for the hills!

    And I am embarrassed to realize that this is exactly how I behaved in the early days of my relationship with T. No wonder he pulled back!

    This morning it hit me that I am seeing firsthand how someone (me!) can “see what they want to see” and create an imaginary “connection” even when the other person isn’t really that into things! I do like this guy, but there is no way that I look at him with deep desire in my eyes! In fact, a few times, I was actually rather disconnected and bored. Amazing!

    So… this is a wake-up call to me to stay grounded and be IN the ACTUAL moment instead of creating a fantasy that overwhelms the other person and drives them away.

    This man’s message … be real and enjoy what is ACTUALLY in front of me!

  69.  #69tinque on March 24, 2010 at 8:53 am

    Megan – You are going to have to let this go, this wanting to know. It’s the part of you that’s wishes to control things, but the truth is you cannot control much of anything, except yourself, and I hesitate to use that word, “control”. It feels rigid.
    You seem filled with anxiety, and this is where the wanting to know comes from. Somewhere inside you think that if you know what’s going on, the anxiety will abate, but honestly it will just keep feeding it.
    Whatever it takes to let this go, DO IT. Try any of the numerous tools here, some have already been suggested by others.
    I wrote recently that there is a lovely sense of order in chaos. See if you can feel that if only a tiny bit. It may feel awful at first, scary, but you can accustom to it and grow to love it. The peace you will start to feel will far outweigh any need to know.

  70.  #70Simply Shannon on March 24, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    Megan, Along the lines of what Tinque is saying and Daria is saying… What exactly would you like to know? What would make you feel better? When I’m hurting, I’m not seeking an answer. I’m seeking comfort from the pain. And the reality is that the guy doesn’t even know the answer I seek. It simply occurred to him one day that the two of us weren’t meant to be. It doesn’t make either one of us a bad catch. It just means we weren’t the right fit. It really is that simple. The ways we split from each other may be painful but at the root of it, it’s just one or both of us didn’t think we belonged together.

    I pray that one day soon you will be able to look at your ex and say thank you for releasing me. Believe me, this really will happen. It did for me. You can go back through lots of posts from last year to see I have been in your exact same shoes. In such pain over a man… I thought I would crawl into a cave and cry for a year.

    I’m gonna make up a thank you tool. When I think of the man (men) who have hurt me, I picture their faces and say thank you. Thank you for giving me a reason to change, a reason to open up my eyes and really see what is in front of me. EVERYTHING is a lesson. EVERYTHING is a message. Thank you.

    Gosh when I think of A and say thank you, I can feel the anger bubbling up. I don’t know why he is still on my horse (even my ex-husband is no longer on horse). Weird.

    Anyhoo, I’m rambling…

  71.  #71mary on March 24, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    Dear Soignee,

    Hooray for you, with what happened today!

    If the guy who broke my heart – R – pulled up beside me and said, “You look cute!” and wanted to get with me, after everything we’d been through, it would be a forever moment in my mind. Not to mention getting the cool date today! You can look forward to that. Way to go!

    Thank you for answering me. I like your advice; it matches my mood. I am in no mood to be communicating with this very-married guy! But… completely ignoring him will be difficult as it seems so harsh and vindictive. I wonder where to draw the line?

    Explaining! You’re right! I’m so glad I asked your opinion. I don’t need to explain myself! He should KNOW, and if he doesn’t know, he’ll have to figure it out. Let his counselor explain it to him.

    Lose interest? I’ve lost it! He didn’t cross my mind once today, except to wonder what you might say about him! Instead, I felt suddenly free… like I haven’t felt in years, or maybe ever. I felt really alive, and like there was a clean slate.

    That felt so good.

    And then reading your comment released me even more. I think that for now I will not even return any of his emails, and not answer the phone when he calls. I can do that. It does seem harsh, and rude, but putting me into the Wings position is NOT cool. Maybe, like you said, it’s just a pause position.

    I have loved this guy since I was a teenager, and that is most of my life. No one compares to him in my mind, and I’ve suffered through a lot of heartache. Now to suffer a bit more because of him, when he has been the refuge in my mind all these years, is to be released.

    This afternoon I joined Four Plus Four, a dating club, and It’s Just Lunch, too. I will be dating soon.

    Thank you so much. I feel lighthearted and carefree.

    Love, Mary

  72.  #72Bliss on March 24, 2010 at 8:39 pm

    I need a hug or a friend.

    I was asleep last night and he came and lied next to me – was watching me – talking to me – i did not wake up to all the things he said but for some reason i woke up to him saying – I am walking out tonight,

    I am feeling so sad

  73.  #73mary on March 24, 2010 at 9:48 pm

    Oh, Bliss… could you let me be your hug? could you let me be your friend? Tell me more.


  74.  #74Bliss on March 24, 2010 at 10:40 pm

    Thanks Mary

    I am just sucked into a very complicated relationship – but with all the help of the other ladies Daria, Lucy,kay, Soignee, Tinique they and so many more on “New Post for Questions ” – have a read there is lots in there. I have changed my name from No Bliss to Bliss.

    when the going gets tough – he walks.
    runs – bolts – blames me for everything.

    its hard its drepressing.
    He is not happy … he’s left before and he is still not happy. so he comes back.

    its the rollercoaster from hell.
    its happends every year.. around footy season – so from now till october it will be hell. t
    then he comes good toward xmas and then its starts all over again.

    When he whispered he was leaving last night while i was sleeping – he didn’t expect me to wake up.
    and he wouldn’t talk or say whether he was leaving or not.

    I am just having a very hard time ..

    its one thing after another.

    I did my knee quite badly 3 weeks ago. I have a damaged Cornea from conjunctivitis from my daughter. Today dentist to find a very good tooth that didn’t look like it was causing my discomfort was dying cause it had a hair line fracture at the base near the nerve ( root canal treatment) due to chewing ice as my graving when i was pregnant.

    I am very sad today
    I just want what to be past this and feel love and affection – and have a hug or just the warmth of someone who cares when you are feeling down – t makes you feel better a bit like when you are little your mum use to just make things ok.. well mine did in her own wacky way..

    I always thought getting into a relationship was you be there for each other..

    I go lost or left behind or became a noose around his kneck..

    thanks for listening and wanting to help..

  75.  #75mary on March 25, 2010 at 12:41 am


    he sounds like a runner. so difficult! i’m not even gonna ask why you keep letting him back into your life. i’ve been doing the same thing with my guy.

    it must feel pretty terrible. he’s always leaving! and you’re walking on eggshells hoping everything will be perfect, or he’ll be gone again. and you can’t keep everything on a perfect keel, because things keep happening…

    like the problems with your knee… eye… tooth… it must be overwhelming.

    i know i can’t say anything that will make you feel instantly better. it sounds like such a rough patch. i’m just listening and wanting to help! as you said…

    that’s all.

    i do want to tell you that my heart is mending. and i am now a little wiser. and i might say no next time around… my mind is made up! so we’ll see.

    if there’s hope for me, there’s hope for you!

    hang in there.

    love, mary!

  76.  #76tinque on March 25, 2010 at 7:24 am

    Bliss – Just a thought.
    Your areas of injury –
    your knee = support, which you are not getting elsewhere. are you giving it to yourself?
    your eye = sight, are you seeing clearly? or do you want to close your eyes to the pain yet still have one eye on guard?
    your tooth = means to attain nourishment, again not coming from elsewhere, BUT you are getting some here. how about from yourself?

    And a HUGE hug and fairy dust dreams for you.
    I understand how difficult it is to leave a not good for you man even without children in the picture. I have been there, really, really been there.
    I feel so blessed that it was actually he who finally let me go. I was set free to find “the one” who showed up only two weeks later. He is still obsessing about me, but that’s a whole other story.
    You will leave when you are ready, and until that time, you have many lovely women here to support and love you.
    Another cyber hug or three….

  77.  #77mary on March 25, 2010 at 10:04 am

    pretty cool thoughts Tinque!

    fairy dust dreams…


  78.  #78Orna Walters on March 25, 2010 at 10:40 am


    Big Hug to you. You do have a large support team here with no judgment, just LOVE!

    Take in the love here. Its all around you.

    Orna <3

  79.  #79Bliss on March 27, 2010 at 2:08 am


    you are all so right.
    I feel so excited to see him and he’s nice for only a short time.
    he heads off to do his own thing most of the day, gets back and he’s a pig, starts a fight only because he wants to go out again..

    You all see – what i don’t .
    I have blinkers on, and one day i will wake up to myself.
    But i can say that i am worried that i will never find someone, he’s always tells me that i am just expecting way too much from a man, and to go and find out the hard way.
    the only difference is that he wouldn’t take me back like i have his..

    Why O why do i take his crap..

    Why ?

  80.  #80Soignée on March 27, 2010 at 2:45 am

    Dear Mary,

    thank you for your post!!!
    I remember once Rori said that in love issues you have not to explain anything.
    Yes, maybe NO EXPLANATION can seem not polite but love is not about politeness, it is about love! Maybe it is the only feeling when you do not have to explain anything, because the feeling issues are feeling and we have to be real.
    Because you can not love someone because you want to be polite. It is not a job issue, not an issue of the right communicating.
    The no explanation is your truth.

    For me, I decided one thing. I will express myself and share my feelings with the people who CARE for me. Because the explanation of my feelings and actions to people who do not care, is a waste of time. They won’t change. And the men do care when they SHOW their care actively, not only in words.
    Actions and no words, only actions count.

    So in your case, the actions speak for themselves. You can understand everything he made, his decisions, but inside you you feel pain, and he knows about it. Because it is not the real love.
    When the men love, they show their love and they have no limits to demonstrate it to you.

    Dear Mary, take care of yourself.!!!

  81.  #81Soignée on March 27, 2010 at 2:47 am

    Dear Bliss,

    the most important thing what gives me joy for you, is that you changed your no bliss name to Bliss!!!
    It is such a beautiful word and for me it gives a warm, lovely feeling in my heart. I am sure in some way that it will give you luck!! I do not know why, but I feel it!!!

  82.  #82Bliss on March 27, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    Thank you Soignee

    I really do hope so.

    I love you and all the other beautiful ladies on here’s positive attitude..

    : – )))
    Off to have some fun with my kids

  83.  #83Orna Walters on March 27, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    I read something I’d like to share here.

    From Louise Hay’s book You Can Heal Your Life:
    “The heart, of course, represents love, while our blood represents joy. Our hearts lovingly pump joy throughout our bodies.”

    A great visualization is to picture the JOY going through your body with every heart beat! As long as you are breathing and your heart is pumping you can have JOY – open up to receive it!


  84.  #84heartbeat on March 27, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    I’m feeling sheepish and sad and also a bit joyful.

    I caved late afternoon and called my ‘ex’ Depressed Man (who withdrew for several weeks after my sister died. He didn’t answer. I was going out shortly after, and I’ve had a great evening!

    I woke up in grief for my sister and cried all morning. I feel the loss more acutely these days – it’s been three months. And then I got triggered by the front post about the stripper and struggled all day with feelings of sadness and guilt and exhaustion. I don’t know where the guilt came from – or maybe I felt fear, fear of having handled my relationship wrong, I just felt tense and mixed up and physically shaky.

    I still feel nauseous. Oh and then I felt ashamed.

    I felt ashamed that I’d let myself down by dialling, that I’d let all the sirens down, that I’d let Rori down.

    But during my meditation class (it was a singing meditation) I apologised to Great Spirit – cuz I even felt I’d let my spirit guides down too. And then I felt a great rush of love and lightness… and it was beautiful! I felt forgiven. I felt the sad girl inside me feel safe again.

    I am still a little sad inside. I am still feeling a little mixed up. But I don’t feel like I’m hanging on, waiting. Though I’m struggling with some thought-demons which make me feel bad.

  85.  #85heartbeat on March 27, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    I’m trying not to – but I do feel disappointed in myself still. If I’d NOT dialled, I would NOT have a big bad negative thing to deal with – instead I would have just gone out and had a great evening. Though I also feel proud of myself for not being devastated. I’m scared too. I don’t know what happened to me today. I felt so lost in sadness and grief, and I’d been remembering all the nice things he did. And because I’ve been feeling so great lately, I realised how needy I’d become – though to be fair I was floored after illness and then nursing my sister. Ok I’m crying now.

  86.  #86heartbeat on March 27, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    I feel grateful to have this space to write. i feel accountable to myself, witnessed by all you Sirens. Thank you xx

  87.  #87Orna Walters on March 27, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    Oh Heartbeat,

    I thought about you when I wrote the post about the heart pumping joy through the body because of your name here: HEARTBEAT!

    Grief is so tough. It really is. Emotion is about BEING not about doing. There’s nothing to do with how you feel, just feel it and it will come in like an ocean wave and then it will go. Then another wave will come in. Be with the grief. When it comes in, just allow it to come in and feel it. It will pass and you will feel better.

    Its not about letting anyone down, not even yourself. Its about learning. You discovered that you don’t feel good calling him. Perfect! You need not do that again. 🙂

    And if you do, that’s okay too because its all a learning process. The goal is to choose the actions that you know from experience have made you feel good. Feeling good in the moment is sometimes not it. Its about feeling GOOD on all levels! Inside all the parts of us! In alignment with our integrity.

    Do you do affirmations? If you do, pick one that really resonates with how you wish to feel. If not, maybe give it a try. If you feel that fear, here’s one that I really like: “I am loved and I am safe.”

    When I have new one I’m getting comfortable saying I’ll make a song out of it. Singing is a very high vibration.

    Big Hug,

  88.  #88heartbeat on March 27, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    “I am loved and I feel safe” THANK YOU Orna

    I feel enormously comforted. I could just hug you like I’m a limpet. I DO feel so much grief. And I learnt a few things today.

    I lost it because I felt tired and broken – that’s when my thinking gets skewed. I’ve also been overly busy – stressed – at work. In fact I feel like having a chunk of time off. I actually feel like a career change. Like my lost self is coming back and would like to do the thing she loves most – design.

    Orna I picked up the name thing 🙂 and it echoed with those moments in the singing where I felt great love and joy. xxxxxxx

  89.  #89heartbeat on March 27, 2010 at 5:31 pm

    “feeling GOOD on all levels! Inside all the parts of us! In alignment with our integrity.” YES that’s it – integrity – that feels soooo vital.

    Oh I did practice a few tools while I was out, quite a few attractive men about 😉

    So I learnt I’m improving vastly.

    And I’d like to manifest some work changes. xx

  90.  #90tinque on March 27, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    Heartbeat – I don’t have much to add to what Orna spoke here so beautifully except this: you did not do wrong; you did NOTHING wrong. Feel disappointed if you must, but there really is no need.
    There are no mistakes. So you called him. So what.
    You are still grieving, and that in and of itself is a hugely vulnerable place to be, AND a tremendous opportunity to open to your own heart even more deeply.
    Sending you much love (and a dose of kitty love)
    Hugs and more,

  91.  #91heartbeat on March 28, 2010 at 5:53 am

    Tinque – thank you!… I feel able to cry in a more ‘loose’ open way when I read yours and Orna’s words… which feels a relief and less lonely.
    Much kitty love too!

  92.  #92Daria on March 28, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    “The heart, of course, represents love, while our blood represents joy. Our hearts lovingly pump joy throughout our bodies.”

    A great visualization is to picture the JOY going through your body with every heart beat! As long as you are breathing and your heart is pumping you can have JOY – open up to receive it!


    and rockin floating with the waves for the upset – out of siren… just remembered that and its helping me now

    i was feeling like the upset was sinking in me and getting stuck

    now im letting it rock with the waves

  93.  #93Bliss on March 28, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    Why are we always on such an emotional rollercoaster?

    Yet most Men just cruise thru life !

  94.  #94Daria on March 28, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    I don’t thin most Men just cruise thru life. Our feelings are our blessing and our depth, out beingness of the earth and the color swirl

  95.  #95Turtle Girl on March 28, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    Well ok Heartbeat-
    Join the club. You called him. So what? For me when I think about the fact that I saw him again the other night and then afterward emailed him and he emailed me back and said : “You were the one who cut contact, you were the one who did not want to email and you were the one who did not want to be friends-so now live with it and leave me alone”

    Can’t get much clearer than that. He is now the one with the “power” because I am/was coming toward him. I wrote my emails and told my truth and well so be it. It felt bad because a part of me wanted him back. It felt bad because I seem needy and desperate. It felt bad because I do not want him to think of me as needy and desperate. But it felt good because it was my truth and in an odd sort of way, it cleared things for me, it finalized the fact that is is really really over and he is not good for me. A man who actually wanted to see me and love me would not have responded like that. He would have said something completely different when I told him how much I was suffering. But that man is toxic and has no empathy for anyone else’s suffering, because he hates women. So, it was like a release of final energy for me and the nail in the coffin.
    And I have to admit-the evil little devil in me feels better because I had the last word even though he said fuck off. I still spoke my truth and he had to listen and know that he should be held accountable regardless. As Linda said in another post, I planted a seed, maybe he will think about it the next time he says I love you to a woman, that he better mean what he says and will be held accountable for the words that come out of his mouth. So I am just trying to care for me in the best way I know how.

    I got bit by a spider in my sleep last night and the whole side of my eye and face is swollen up and puffy and I feel terrible. So-really taking care of me today.

  96.  #96Turtle Girl on March 28, 2010 at 4:32 pm

    Oh yeah, and my email to him was PRACTICE saying my feelings. He does not care, so a good one to practice on-so next man will get the benefit of my lessons. I will be more apt to state my feelings in feeling messages instead of being all up in my head.
    So I see my emailing him as positive.

  97.  #97Daria on March 28, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    I feel triggered!! I don’t like fuckin blaming. that fuckin cuts off part of ourselves. just because i feel angry and sad at a man doesnt mean he sucks. which is great and freeing and makes what can happen for me much more flexible. then i can focus on myself and my feelings rather than blame him for my feeling crappy. then “sucky” men turn around for me. thank u.

    not blaming internet man that i felt angry with a few minutes ago.


    i feel mad! I don’t want to blame. hear that universe! thank u.

    i am being triggered by blame because i am blaming. i love my triggeredness. i love my feeling drained to the side. i love my feeling unsafe. i love my feeling like attacking. thank u. i want this healed thank u. i feel like kickin some ass. kickin some ass the ultimate feeling message.ii just delivered it earlier.

  98.  #98Daria on March 28, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    I feel unsafe and I DONT WANT TO FEEL THIS WAY. I want to heal this. thank u. AGAIn. i love my fear. thank u fear. i love my shame. thank u shame. i love my fury. thank you fury. that feels like leaning to the right and opening my mouth like a yawn and then pressure in my right shoulder and my left cheek. i love the pressure in my right shoulder and my left cheek. thank uuu… that feels like an almost yawn and i love my almost yawn. that feels like thirsty… i lvoe my thirst

    water time


    BITCH LEAVE ME ALONE – thank u nv. i know your intentions are good. this way of protecting me is causing me distress, and i don’t want that in my life. i am asking you to protect me in a different way. thank you. i appreciate your intention and attention. please stay on my side. thank u

  99.  #99Megan on March 28, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    Tinque and Simply Shannon,
    thank you both very much. I feel special that you made a tool just for me 🙂
    I guess the wanting to know boils down to this:
    was I just someone you kept around cus I cared and it made you feel worthy? in other words, when i got upset it showed I cared and he acted like he didn’t care, which puts him in a place of power and makes him feel worthy.
    IF this is the case (and idk, and thats the point), then to think I spent 2+ yrs with someone who is ok with doing this to me really, really hurts, and pisses me off.
    And Shannon, while it makes sense, for some reason it hurts to even think that I’m not right for him?!
    So I guess Tinque and Shannon, I feel it’s more about coming to terms with how to think of him and the whole situation. does that make sense? Wouldn’t you behave completely different if you found out someone you thought was innocent was intentionally hurting you or vice versa? does that not entirely change your thinking around the whole situation at hand?
    Please know that I have taken Rori’s previous advice and gone thru the whole Power and Self Esteem archive and copy and pasted all the tools into my OneNote (which is a very good idea btw) and am forcing myself to work thru them
    (even though I’m not gonna lie, it feels as if as SOON as I get done with them my thoughts are right back to where they were and I still feel like sh*t)
    I am trying to let it go it’s just HARD. esp since I am constantly being reminded of it at work when someone says his name, etc.
    I am forcing myself to stop now b/c I could just go on and on but please know I greatly appreciate your kind words and they have not gone unheard!! I am trying my best to let them resonate within me. He will be back this weekend…

  100.  #100Megan on March 28, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    to all the other lovely ladies,

    I am fairly new to this blog and I would love to give advice but feel like who am I to advise someone else when I’m a MESS! SO, my thoughts and prayers go out to ALL of you and I will keep reading 😉

  101.  #101tinque on March 29, 2010 at 7:50 am

    Megan – “Wouldn’t you behave completely different if you found out someone you thought was innocent was intentionally hurting you or vice versa? does that not entirely change your thinking around the whole situation at hand?”

    Actually no it wouldn’t. It would definitely hurt, and this hurt needs to be felt, but to attempt to get another to “understand” how you feel or change his view or anything at all is for the most part pointless, for the chances of you being able to do so are very small, and it will likely cause you more pain.
    It’s okay to express your feelings to him if the opportunity arises, “These changes feel horrible” or “this hurts”, but I have found that people who behave as this man you have been describing are unreachable. As frustrating and painful as this might feel, it’s best to leave it all alone and work to feel what you feel, let it go, heal.
    Closure is an elusive thing, and striving for this will likely make you feel worse.

  102.  #102smile sms on April 3, 2010 at 12:38 am


  103.  #103Laura on April 9, 2010 at 9:40 am

    Laura says:
    This learning curve is steep and painful. I had been in a 4 year relationship with a man who made me feel either wonderful or insecure. He finally broke up with me and a few months later i met steve. Steve LOVED me. Steve loved me unconditionally. He was sweet and caring and dependable and wonderful. He came into my life, met all my friends and became part of our group (I am 50 and my “group” of friends are wonderful and divorced like i). I was still mourning the loss of this other man, I didn’t always treat Steve with the love he showed me. i took im and his love for granted. Some times this made Steve lose his temper. Never violent. Just angry and yelling. Long, sad story short……it was my 50th bday last month. Steve planned a whole weekend away for us. He invited a bunch of friends to a bar to celebrate. i spent much of the time chatting with a guy friend. Steve went ballistic. i used this as a reason to break-up. He begged, cried, pleaded….i wouldn’t bend. It was like I wanted to make him hurt the way I had been hurt by my ex. Steve kept pursuing me for days….until I told him he needed to stop or I would have to get a restraining order. That was it. 3 weeks…we never spoke or saw eachother. During that time, I had a revelation. I missed Steve terribly. I realized he was everything my ex had not been and I ached to apologize. I ran into steve (we have a HUGE cross-over with all my -now his too- friends). He ran up and hugged me. He said he had been afraid to contact me but he loved me more than anyone in his life. Then…..a girl walked up. His new girlfriend. I wanted to die. The next day Steve and i met for a drink to talk at 4pm. I cried the whole time. He couldn’t keep his hands off me. He kept saying “I thought we were done….I thought we were done.” He came back to my house and all we did was lie on the couch and hold each other for hours. We both cried. i apologized….said I wanted to try again. He said he needed to think. Afew days later we all had a co-ed softball practice. His new gf was there. I ached. He asked if he could come over agin that night. He wanted to make love….i said NO WAY….while he was dating others. Again tears. I have never been so open and vulnerable to any man. And he was crying saying he loved me so much but he couldn’t just jump back because I changed my mind. He said he is “just dating” this woman but she is nice and it would be wrong to just dump her because I decided to come back. And he said what if he does something to make me angry and we break-up again. He is struggling financially…like everyone these days….and he doesn’t want to be in a committed relationship now. Even though only 3 weeks ago he had been looking at rings for me!! He said he wants to leave the door open for us. But he needs time to think….
    HELP…..what to do? I will see him all the time with this girl. I know this was my fault. But how could only 3 weeks make so much difference in his feeling s toward me? He texted me the other day and said…he does not want to date me now and to leave him alone. He was the good man I had been waiting for! What are the “rules” when you are the one who screwed up? HELP!!

    I should add….Steve and I dated for 1 year. We were so close….I just coldn’t committ all the way and he had been talking marriage while I was still ambivilant. In the 3 weeks we were broken up….I gained clarity ….and he gained a girlfriend!! UGHHHH. I know I could lure him back with sex…..he is strongly attracted to me. But I want him back all the way. I feel like I was “the guy” in this relationship. And now all i do is cry. Rori…how does a woman make amends? I eplained….I apologized……but I feel like he went through all the mourning and anger and his ego is bruised. His new “date” is ten years younger and a good ego booster. I feel like an idiot. this is a lesson to all you women who are holding on to an old lover…hoping he will come back. You may lose a wonderful man…..
    Is this fixable? You do have a crystal ball…right? lol

    Friday, 9 April 2010 @ 8:40am