Is All Lost? Does She Have To Divorce Him, Or Can This Marriage Be Saved?

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I just got a letter from Elise basically saying about this about her husband…

“Rori, He didn’t pay attention to me…we argued…he said he wasn’t a good husband and I deserved better, then he slept in the other room…I hate him. I deserve better. I am just upset Rori…I feel my husband is so selfish…he’s so in love with his friends…. I’m depressed and confused and needy. Elise”

Okay- I know if I could talk with both Elise and her husband – that would be best – but since we only have Elise to work with…I’m going to talk directly to her:

Elise, you’re going to have to make a choice.

Either you’re going to mentally and emotionally stay with this marriage and work through this rough time in the most creative and great way possible – or you’re going to bail and divorce him.

There is no middle place here – pick one.

I vote for you to try to salvage the marriage.

The first thing you need to tackle is your ” needy and depressed and confused.”

This is because you have no emotional, fulfilling life outside the marriage – and that’s where you have to go first.

Look – if you were to leave him, you’d still have to do that, right?

So start NOW!!!!

Make plans, do things, volunteer!!!!

Get happier no matter WHAT he does.

Then start talking to him the way we’re working on.

Elise – this is a huge change in the way you’ve been running your life.

I can’t imagine you want to bail on this – not with kids…

I KNOW my methods work – you just have to really GET what we’re doing here and throw yourself into it BIG TIME.

Caring what he does is only making things worse.

If my husband’s family came into town – I would EXPECT him to spend ALL his time with them, and that I’d better find something else to do.

This work is a daily, hourly, minute-by-minute practice…and that’s how this is going to change…

His answer is that of a defeated man who believes he can never make you happy. Either that’s true or not. I say NOT.

You may be right – he might be selfish and narcissistic…AND – the cure for that is for you to work on the part of you that has those components (and we ALL do) AND –

Thank you so much for all your loving words to me about our work together – and I wonder – what would your husband do if you felt that way, and said those kinds of things to HIM?

Like: “You are amazing”

Are there parts and qualities of him that you DO honestly feel are amazing? Focus on those…

I totally get this…even my husband can be clueless – and it’s my job to clue him in, and his job to hear me…and that’s something both people have to learn to do…

He may be in love with his friends – and I don’t think that would bother you if you felt he was in love with you…

And I know how that feels – we all do.

The place to start is ALWAYS – Are you in love with YOU?

AND to do whatever it takes to get to that place.

Love, Rori


  1.  #1Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 7:09 am

    Hopefully not

  2.  #2Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 7:09 am

    Featured Topic: What You Should Say When He….(One More)

    1) …Says something you don’t like
    Your response: “That doesn’t make me happy.”
    Oh, I can see you rolling your eyes. You’re probably pretty certain how he’ll respond. He might laugh or say he doesn’t care. You’re probably right.

    But the trick is to outlast his bad behavior. Remain distant until he approaches you later. When he acts like nothing is wrong say to him, “I’m still upset about what you did
    (said).” Now you’ll have his attention.

    He will start to learn that whenever he is rude, inappropriate or bullying, that you won’t simply ignore that bad behavior. He’ll need to apologize or you’ll retain your

    2) …Says, “You Look Great!”
    Your Response: No words, just smile at him for 3 seconds.
    I put this on my list because most women tend to minimize compliments. One reason that they do this is that they don’t want others (particularly men) to think they are

    The problem is that when a man gives you something, even a quick compliment, he doesn’t want you to turn him down. Remember, giving is masculine and receiving is feminine. So when a man gives you a compliment, just relax and enjoy it. He wouldn’t say these words
    unless he meant them.

    3) …Expresses Doubts About Your Relationship
    Your Response: “OK I understand.”
    It takes a lot of courage to simply state, “OK I understand,” because your fears will be screaming at you inside your head.

    There is an important reason why you should respond this way. If a man has expressed doubts about your relationship, he most likely no longer feels you are a mystery.
    Memorize this phrase “Men despise what comes easy and crave what they can’t get.”

    In this situation, if you respond to his doubts with this pleasant and accommodating answer, he will start to feel as though maybe he doesn’t understand you as well as he
    thought he did. Perhaps you are a mystery to him after all. By responding this way you will arouse his curiosity and diminish his fears.

    The confident woman that men adore and never want to leave never begs or pleads with aman to stay with her. It takes courage to maintain your dignity when you’re sacred but, those women that have learned how to put their heart first unanimously say that the results are worth it.

    One MORE:
    4) …Shows Up 30 Minutes Late Without a Valid Excuse (and doesn’t call to tell you he’s going to be late)

    Your Response: “I’m sorry but I’m going to stay in for the evening. We were suppose to go out 30 minutes ago.” Perhaps you’re thinking, “Oh Bob, that sounds so petty and mean.” Well it might seem that way but when a man takes a woman for granted she should always create distance.

    Notice I mentioned that he was late and didn’t have a good reason. I’m not talking about his being late because of circumstances beyond his control. What I am talking about is when a man is late and acts indifferent. If you accept that kind of behavior you’re actually training him to treat you poorly in other areas of your relationship

    Bob Grant

  3.  #3April Rose on February 17, 2012 at 7:49 am

    Femininewoman, I’m so glad I made your day!
    It’s the least I could do.
    I was receiving gem after gem from you on the previous thread.

  4.  #4Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 7:51 am


    I replied to you on the prior thread – not sure if you had a chance to read my post.

  5.  #5CurvySiren10 on February 17, 2012 at 7:55 am

    Memulo, just wanted to comment on your posts from the other thread. I would tread very carefully here. It’s very complicated when a man is still married with a complex situation like this one has. There is a lot of pain there and A LOT of unresolved “stuff” between both of them, with a child in the middle. I’m not trying to discourage you at all, but just cautioning you of being in the middle of such a firestorm. Be true to your feelings about it. He is only SO available emotionally at this point in time. It’s going to be your choice whether or not you can (or WANT to) weather through such a rocky terrain.

  6.  #6April Rose on February 17, 2012 at 8:00 am

    I want to share again the message from the goddesses that came through me in response to something Femininewoman wrote:

    “… when fully committed … that is what he wants to do – commit everything in his life to you.”

    Wow. I never ever considered this before. It feels scarey. And EXCITING. Imagine!!! That level of giving from a man.
    To ME!!! Me? Yes, April Rose.

    And then – that’s when the words came from on high – and I’ll put them in a separate post for best effect –

  7.  #7April Rose on February 17, 2012 at 8:00 am

    There is a man coming towards you who wants to give himself and everything he has to you. Into your keeping. Because he loves and trusts you, Goddess. He wants to lose his small self and become Huge in his merging and giving to you.
    Divine Masculine surrendering to Divine Feminine surrendering to Divine Masculine…..
    Surrendering, merging, Uniting.

    Until there is One.

  8.  #8Siren Angel on February 17, 2012 at 8:02 am

    FW @2, Thank you! So much we can use there, especially about smiling when receiving a compliment.

    On V-night, M pulled me close and said ‘you are special’ I just froze! He brought it up again that he didn’t understand my reaction… DUH… I have to learn to smile and say thank you and RECEIVE.

  9.  #9Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 8:15 am

    FW and CurvySiren,

    Thank you for your comments, they give me a lot to think about. I don’t feel good in the middle of all this obviously. At the same time, I do like him a lot. I like him on all levels and it doesn’t happen often with me.

    I will try to fight for this. I need to think how to do it. I agree that I should try and stop myself from being too nice. It will help me in any relationship anyway.

  10.  #10Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 8:24 am

    Any word of advice from everyone is highly appreciated.

    Well for now he is busy with his stuff for a week, so I don’t have to do much lol.

  11.  #11Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 8:33 am

    I liked a lot SA’s advice from the prior thread as well. I should get ready with more scripts and be firmer with my boundaries about this matter.

  12.  #12Sapphire-n-Jewels on February 17, 2012 at 8:38 am

    Ooo that’s helpful
    My partner is in love with his dogs
    I don’t doubt that he loves me to – but do I love me
    Need to work on that one
    Also my feeling messages

  13.  #13April Rose on February 17, 2012 at 8:40 am


    Are you dating other men, or just this one?

  14.  #14Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 8:45 am

    The two Christines have each written life-changing books, spoken to audiences around the world and dedicated their lives to showing people how to fall in love with themselves. What I love most about them is that, not only do they teach love, they live it. They walk their talk every day.

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    You could say they’re LOVE POWERHOUSES.

    This month, they’re on a mission to end love starvation, suffering and loneliness, for anyone who dares to say YES! to being happy in love no matter what is or isn’t going on in the romantic relationship department of your life. You can learn all about it here.

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    They’ll share their hard-found secrets, insight and inspirations: 3 Keys to Falling in Love With Your Love Life…no matter who is or who isn’t sleeping next to you. These are the same keys they used to take their love power back… meaning their happiness now only depends on one relationship – the one with themselves.

    You’ll definitely want to be there too! This is not fluff. This is love truth and love power at its best. Two Christines for a super power duo of self-love – where else can you find that?!

  15.  #15Luzydel on February 17, 2012 at 8:46 am

    Siren Angel; Replying to your post in the other blog.

    I do believe that we should not be dating all the time. I cannot put myself at risk for a date. Perhaps I am being dramatic, but no I am not going to sacrifice my life for Cding. The idea is to find a man who can love
    reach that perfection men seek. I need to love me, take care of me and forget about men for a long time.

  16.  #16Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 8:47 am

    April Rose,

    I stated that I want exclusivity if I am in an intimate relationship and he accepted. So I stopped dating others.

  17.  #17Starla on February 17, 2012 at 8:49 am

    Hi Ladies:) Good morning:) It’s a beautiful day.

    Still not feeling mad about CF, just bored and like keeping my distance.

    He actually called me this morning and left a message like he does every day to say he just wanted to hear my voice to start his day off right.

    I mean, just totally sweet, like always.

    But the truth is, i don’t want a phone-only relationship, and i feel confused and unsafe hearing all this sweetness about how much he misses me and thinks i’m amazing, when he won’t try to see me more than once a week.

    And we’re not committed, so I think it’s on me to just lean back and be surprised and speak my feelings. And not be scared of losing him. I trust me. I trust my boundaries. I am learning sooo much, and I can do this.

    I feel fear of losing him, fear of him not pursuing, fear of him withdrawing and shrinking away instead of stepping up, fear of him playing games right now, saying one thing but doing another. None of that matters. Me getting the relationship I want is what matters, so I am boldly shedding my fear and LIVING MY BOUNDARIES.

    This way it’s not a roller coaster of connected/disconnected on my end. The onus is on him to stay connected. I don’t want to be waiting around for connection. I am really fabulous and my heart is too sensitive to be getting caught up in such foolishness.

  18.  #18Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 8:53 am

    Luzydel my sarcastic inner critic said “I would love to see you forget about men for a long time”. Men are everywhere so I guess I am having a hard time figuring out how this can be accomplished. Also when a man sees you and wants you he comes toward you no matter what you are saying or doing.

    I also remember Carol Allen’s talks about an archetype she calls the Lady in the Tower. Some women after getting hurt go off and claim that they are focussing on other things. The next thing they wake up 10 – 15 years later only to realize that a lot has passed them by and might have been unable to recognize the cute guy standing in front of them who was totally in love with them. I’ve been there so I know. I have pictures of myself at dinners with some guys and can only see now the look of love on the guys face. Even my own 14 year old daughter can’t believe that I was so blind when I show her some of the pictures I have.

  19.  #19Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 8:57 am

    Starla boldly going where no man has gone before (I am boldly shedding my fear). I am a trekky fan too so your comment triggered that memory and convinced me that you are truly a trekky.

  20.  #20Starla on February 17, 2012 at 8:59 am

    One more thing – I noticed I lose my temper/composure emotionally and lash out/get very dramatic when I’m not living my boundaries. And I don’t want to do this anymore. I don’t want to be energetically begging/crying out for love. It’s unattractive and toxic.

    I’m glad I just said I was busy and needed to go last night. I am breaking my patterns. Even if CF just turns out to be the guy who was dating me when I broke my patterns, that is extremely valuable. I’m still pretty young and with millions of available men in the US (and abroad, I am a polyglot after all!), I think I can shed all urgency about getting married too.

    I am unique, interesting, smart, sexy, sweet, ambitious, caring, and open minded. May the best man win.

    No more suffering for Starla. Prizes don’t suffer. I’ll have plenty of time to suffer when I’ve agreed to commitment:P joke.

  21.  #21Starla on February 17, 2012 at 9:00 am

    FW, you have no idea. I wear Pon Farr perfume. Check it out on Amazon

  22.  #22Ella on February 17, 2012 at 9:12 am

    I LOVE this post.

    Work on that part of us!


    Be Happy no matter what he is doing!


    Work on that part of you (the part that drinks a lot or whatever the issue is)!


    Tell him loving words that you appreciate about him.


    Cus they are amazing. Men. I know the ones around me sure are and there is plenty to appreciate although I sometimes get tongue tied expressing it…

    It feels scary to me sometimes to say nice things to MWC (or any man) in case it is leaning forward… and it makes me feel afraid, as I am allowing myself to be vulnerable.

  23.  #23Starla on February 17, 2012 at 9:14 am

    And omg grad school! One of the things that I love about CF is he knows about linguistics and I can actually talk to him about my passion, and he responds with equal passion for the topic!!!! It feels amazing, like the best friend I could ever ask for.

    But I’m going to probably be going to grad school for linguistics this year, and I’ll be surrounded by men who are into the stuff! And I’ll have my choice of most single guys there. I’m cute and feminine and know how to flirt, and it’ll be like being in a candy store.

    My guys are always telling me I’m a needle in a haystack. And it’s true. I feel interested in unique things and am very independent and powerful and ambitious, but I’m also just a total girl. It’s hard to find a girl who listens to death metal with all her heart or gets off on transitive grammar, but it’s a lot easier to find a man that’s into that stuff. I won’t be short on interesting partners. But I’M the prize.

  24.  #24Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 9:24 am

    RE 20 It shows how we beat ourselves up when we are angry.

  25.  #25Starla on February 17, 2012 at 9:30 am

    24, FW, absolutely. Especially if you grew up being shown that your anger/feelings makes you a bad person.

    Getting off the phone felt unnatural and uncomfortable, but ultimately quite better than “going there” about my feeling bad. It’s a great start to a new pattern.

    He mentioned he wants to take me out on Monday for a date. That is my only free time for a date right now, so if someone else asks me out, I still have that Monday spot open, since CF confirmed nothing.

    It’s gonna feel weird and unnatural, just living my boundaries instead of saying to him that he better firm up plans if he wants me to agree to see him. But I feel in my heart this is what I need to be doing. Making him wrong feels bad too.

  26.  #26Luzydel on February 17, 2012 at 9:33 am

    FW; of course I will still attracted to men; I just feel for some reason, It is not my time. I have dated some men for a few months each; went on many first dates, Maybe I just have to take a break. Just like “D” tells me, maybe when I stop doing things about it, the right guy will show up, without CDing, online dates, etc. I just feel so turned off by men. I see that men do respond as friends, but not romantically. So I will keep “D” as a friend, My ex husband even showed up when I needed help, so he is also a friend, OK talks to me all the time, again another friend.

    There is nothing wrong with me, men just don’t see me in a romantic way. I have to accept that. I don’t mind the friendship though.

  27.  #27Siren Angel on February 17, 2012 at 9:34 am

    I want to be an amazing person all the time. I intend to be an amazing woman all the time.

  28.  #28Siren Angel on February 17, 2012 at 9:34 am

    I want to be an amazing person all the time. I intend to be an amazing woman all the time.

  29.  #29Ella on February 17, 2012 at 9:37 am

    Thank you Universe for allowing me to be a confident, self assured, beautiful, sexy Siren.

    It feels good 🙂

  30.  #30Ella on February 17, 2012 at 9:38 am

    Siren Angel,

    Wow, we posted similar things at the same time (28 & 29). I am working on acting as if, and practicing gratitude, focusing on what I do want… to increase it even more.

    🙂 xoxox

  31.  #31Siren Angel on February 17, 2012 at 9:43 am

    Ella 🙂

  32.  #32Starla on February 17, 2012 at 9:58 am

    I’m getting asked out by another guy right now. There goes my Monday date slot.

    CF’s gonna be pissed. He’ll probably assume I don’t want to see him even though i’ll tell him “ohhh i feel so disappointed, it would feel really nice to see you, but i actually made other plans.

    he is going to grumbbbbllleeeee and withdraw.

    Or maybe not.

    Ack! I just don’t care! I’m feeling angry about his POTENTIAL reaction. Silly.

  33.  #33Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 10:02 am

    Ok, I should definitely go out with friends/flirt. he is away for a week, I should take care of my vibe in the meantime! I am still not sure what to say when he shares about how the little boy reacts to him, but he just shares, he’s not looking for my opinion. I should decide how to make this short and to the point, hopefully helping him to deal and then switch the focus back to me/us.

  34.  #34Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 10:03 am


    he just calls without touching the subject of meeting up?

  35.  #35Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 10:11 am

    One interesting thing – he asked me the other night how I see myself in a relationship: dominant, equal, a follower. I said definitely not dominant, I want to be between equal and follower. Ok, so yesterday he says – his ex behaves this nasty to him because people do this sometimes when they get divorced. I said – no, what a weird reason, I didn’t behave this way in my life. And then he gives me: it’s because you are not dominant, you told me this yourself, you don’t need ‘to win’.

  36.  #36Starla on February 17, 2012 at 10:13 am

    Memulo, 34, yes. says he misses me, i say i miss him too, i say it would feel so good to see him – and nothing! ah well.

    I am looking forward to CDing. I do love me some male attention:D I’m just a girl, afterall.

  37.  #37April Rose on February 17, 2012 at 10:17 am

    If he calls would you consider to say
    “I don’t feel like talking to you when I am bursting for a cuddle. Talking on the phone doesn’t feel satisfying”.

    That way he would know you are annoyed because you want more (and that’s kind of nice for him to hear, that you want that physical contact to the point of grumpiness!). At the moment he knows you are annoyed but is probably clueless as to why.

  38.  #38Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 10:18 am

    Starla, Yessss!

  39.  #39Starla on February 17, 2012 at 10:21 am

    37, April Rose, it would be like the bazillionth time I’ve said something. But yeah, I will say it again, le sigh:P

  40.  #40Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 10:23 am

    No Memulo. Just tell him he is a smart man you have confidence that he will figure out how to respond to the wife drama and to the boy’s behavior.

  41.  #41April Rose on February 17, 2012 at 10:29 am

    Yeah, Starla, I know you say it a lot.

    Perhaps you need to ask
    “Is there something I should know?” “Are you mad at me?”

    …I feel desperately uncuddled and I don’t like feeling this way….

  42.  #42April Rose on February 17, 2012 at 10:32 am

    Thank you Rori,

    “The place to start is ALWAYS – Are you in love with YOU?
    AND to do whatever it takes to get to that place.”

  43.  #43Starla on February 17, 2012 at 10:36 am

    Thanks, April:)

  44.  #44Goodheart on February 17, 2012 at 10:39 am

    I would not ask, “is there something I should know” or “are you mad at me?” that’s getting into his head. And you should trust that he is a man & will tell you if there is something you need to know.

    Cding feels right & knowing that the absolute right guy will step up so there is no need to try control.

    I feel good with minimal to no questions being asked because you are a siren, you have options & whatever he chooses to do doesn’t need to affect you.

  45.  #45Starla on February 17, 2012 at 10:40 am

    I feel sad…Is every relationship I have gonna go through some sort of deep disconnected phase like this?

    I was feeling so happy to finally have a drama-free, safe relationship…but now it’s like…i want to take a step back cuz he keeps agreeing to try to see me more and he’s not following through, and i feel weird and unsafe hearing him talk about how much he misses me and how amazing i am when he’s been so close by. Now he’s moving away and my guard is way up.

    if i’m that amazing, hug me.

    he’s not stupid. something weird is going on, and he needs to figure it out before some other guy does first.

    and i feel sad, we were headed towards “forever,” and now i feel shaky and mistrusting. his words are just pretty bullsh*t to me right now. And that feels awful. I don’t much feel like getting invested in him anymore.

  46.  #46Goodheart on February 17, 2012 at 10:41 am

    I say these things because they are things I always need to remind myself of. When I start feeling the need to control or figure out it feels like a tight ball of resistance inside me.

    When I just relax, breathe, and let the universe work things out I feel the tension leave. Ahhh. And my vibe shifts.

  47.  #47Starla on February 17, 2012 at 10:41 am

    44 Goodheart, I agree with most of your post, but did you know that “is there something I should know/are you mad at me” is rori-recommended scripting, verbatim?

  48.  #48Luzydel on February 17, 2012 at 10:42 am

    I just deleted totally POF, yayy for me. I am not going to date until I love me totally, but if I meet someone outside when I am doing my fun stuff, then yes. but I will not force dating anymore (online dating is forced dating for me). I am going to get a small part time job to get back on track, and I will organize my drawers, closet etc. I am focusing on me 100 percent, my life, my health, my well being….

  49.  #49Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 10:45 am

    Starla I suspect that the weird thing that is going on is that he is sensing what is going on in your head. The doubts and fears and that might be pushing him away. In any event if you continue working on yourself I believe he will come close again. I would change the jackal language of bullsh#hit and just choose to believe that he loves me. I know actions speak louder than words but I would not go there yet if I were you, I would just continue living my fabulous life. He knows he has you so of course any normal man will reduce his efforts. This is not new.

  50.  #50Goodheart on February 17, 2012 at 10:45 am

    Starla, ((((hugs))), I have been in that feeling place more than once & it sucks. Pure & simple.

    So how about this? What if the universe has something exquisite lined up for you that you can’t even imagine right now? It may be with CF or may not, but either way it’s going to knock your socks off!

    What if what you’re going through with CF is just the precursor to the really big thing about to happen?

    You just have to ride out the suck.

  51.  #51April Rose on February 17, 2012 at 10:46 am


    Rori gives these two questions specifically in Love Scripts. “is there something I should know?” “are you mad at me?”

    I have asked these things of my man and it opens up a chance for him to express what’s worrying him so he can let out what’s bothering him.
    Other times he is surprised and reaasures me nothing is wrong.

    In both cases the air is cleared quickly and easily.

  52.  #52Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 10:47 am

    Goodheart when you are in a relationship these things need to be asked. It shows confidence in my eyes.

  53.  #53Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 10:48 am

    Mel where are you? I believe Starla could use your hug right about now.

  54.  #54Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 10:49 am

    Oh no! 🙁

    The urge of leaning forward came back.

    I just heard one of my collegue who was out for drinks with ATW yesterday saying how all the girls were after him and how lucky he is about that and how he attracts girls like crazy…

    I felt so bad and shaky when I heard it and it was like 20 minutes ago and I am still shaking and my heart is beating really fast…

    I know it means nothing. he did NOT say he went home with one of these girl, and my head is telling me that he’s “not like that” and I’m sticking to what he said about “he’s not sleeping with anyone else”…

    But omg I feel worried like CRAZY!!! I feel so sad and I so afraid that he’s not gonna call me this weekend…

    I just CAN’t focus on something else than this right now.

    I want to call him (I’m most likely NOT gonna call him but I feel the urge to do so) and ask if he wants to go for drinks tonight. I feel the urge to see him and feel that everything is alright and that he is gonna keep stepping up and call me…

    I’m feeling so bad right now I can’t even work. I wan’t to call him. I want to feel reassured that everything is ok, that we gonna keep walking in the same direction and continue to “try” to make it work…

    I need to talk to him right now. Omg I’m on panic right now. 🙁

  55.  #55Goodheart on February 17, 2012 at 10:50 am

    Starla, actually, no I didn’t know it was Rori recommended. It’s just, for me, it feels less empowering somehow. I’ve done it quite a few times in past relationships & it always seemed to not work. Could’ve been the guys, or my delivery, vibe, what-have-you.

    So I tweak Rori’s stuff sometimes to fit me. I just go with my intuition. If I guy is feeling any pressure at all, it may push him further away. However, I agree with you can’t say the wrong thing to the right guy (to a point of course).

  56.  #56Starla on February 17, 2012 at 10:51 am

    FW, Goodheart, I will ride this one out. And I’m sooo interested in the learning here.

  57.  #57Goodheart on February 17, 2012 at 10:59 am

    That’s fine if other sirens don’t agree with me. I find asking, “is everything ok?” better (for me) than assuming it’s about me (“are you mad at me?”) that shows a lack of confidence to me. Or just saying, “I feel a little disconnected” but not assuming it’s about me.

  58.  #58Starla on February 17, 2012 at 10:59 am

    55 Goodheart, totally agree you can’t say the wrong thing to the right guy, within reason. That’s why I didn’t worry about getting off the phone. Because if THAT’S gonna drive him away, then I’ll just laugh.

    I am noticing that it really bothers him when I say “I’m just a girl here.” It automatically shuts him down to whatever I have to say after it. So I am not going to say that anymore. He knows I’m just a girl. I’m a girly little crying giggling thing.

    It feels good to talk and process here. In the past I”d be on the phone with him in the bathroom, crying and feeling like my whole day is ruined, can you believe it? hehe

  59.  #59Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 11:04 am


    NO lean back!

  60.  #60Daria on February 17, 2012 at 11:05 am

    I want to practice saying “you’re amazing” to men

  61.  #61Goodheart on February 17, 2012 at 11:07 am

    Starla, that’s why I believe we need to tweak Rori’s stuff because every man is different. Being with him & learning about him gives us the inside scoop on what is effective with him. There is no definitive right and wrong. I believe Rori’s stuff is a great guideline, but being flexible & following our intuition is invaluable.

    Staying in my feelings & keeping it about me (no blaming) is what really helps me.

  62.  #62Starla on February 17, 2012 at 11:07 am

    Lizka change that channel. Leaning back is super important here. It’s your BEST FRIEND when it comes to getting the relationship you want. You’re like a crackhead hitting the pipe saying “just this once” cuz you’re feeling withdrawal, but the crack addiction just makes the underlying problems all worse.

    or something like that.

  63.  #63Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 11:11 am

    #62: There was no withdrawal? A guy went for drinks with friends. Are we going to control his every move?

  64.  #64Luzydel on February 17, 2012 at 11:19 am

    I joined for writers workshop; that should be interesting. Not a dating site perse but an activities site that will get me out of the house once in a while. the less obsessed I fell about being in a relationship and dating, the better I will feel.

  65.  #65Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 11:20 am


    Your guys is probably just busy with friends, etc. and feels scared to tell you to get you upset. it has nothing to do with his feelings for you. unfair, but happens

  66.  #66Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 11:24 am


    #60: I do say that or something similar 🙂

  67.  #67Dominique on February 17, 2012 at 11:28 am

    Siren Angel – #28 – You already are.


  68.  #68mali on February 17, 2012 at 11:29 am

    I’m feeling so lonely right now… I just want to be held.

  69.  #69Dominique on February 17, 2012 at 11:32 am

    Starla – Is this really coming from him? Or is it coming from you, and you’re projecting onto him? And he’s responding to your weirdness/offness.

    You can say to him, “I feel a disconnect (or you seem off/far away). Is there something you want to say to me/tell me?”


  70.  #70Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 11:34 am

    I had all set up a anti-panic plan. I leaned forward on a guy I don’t give a sh*it but is interested in me and invited him over tonight for drinks just to be distracted and put my focus on something else (and in bonus he’s gonna fix my computer).

    So I was feeling better.

    But now the stupid-retarded collegue keeps talking about last night and ATW and I heard something about “getting a phone number” and I just want to scream at him to shut up and I don’t feel that good about my anti panic plan anymore.

    The urge came back again… ahhhhhhhhhhh

  71.  #71Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 11:37 am


    I would trust him and your connection and make this trust my priority.

  72.  #72Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 11:39 am

    I’m trying so hard Memulo…

  73.  #73Silver-Tongued Siren on February 17, 2012 at 11:40 am


    this blog post is how I feel – I think I have been too easy for him to get all along from the beginning as I didn’t have any real outside life – we did everything together – but I was used to that in my two past important relationships. But I need to have more of a life outside of him/our family/our home, (But I LIKE those things)… and I need to lean forward less..but in a relationship I get confused about how much to lean forward I guess..and in the past relationships it all felt very natural, these men were completely in love with me no matter what I did. But here, I have realized that if he acts selfish and narcisistic, (not loving me) then I have to work on those qualities in myself. mirror him. I need to selfishly love me. If he is not feeling “in love with me” then I need to mirror him, and be in love with me.

    i don’t want to get rid of MILW. I want to keep him. To me my actions don’t seem very single-minded though, as i get easily distracted when BF is here (because usually I feel very good with him).. I am single minded/focused about FEELING good, and I have been thinking I am also focused on wanting to have all the options. I want MILW and BF both to want to marry me so I can choose. … is that selfish? I don’t know. I feel guilty for thinking that. I don’t want to hurt anyone, but I sometimes feel like I want to have a choice.

    I actually feel very bad for not being more focused about MILW (even as focused as I have been)….. why do I feel so easily distracted (like when BF is here)? I guess it’s because things aren’t feeling good and I am feeling a lack of things.. of love, cuddling, company, time, companionship… because he is not home and I don’t feel wanted and important and safe. I feel like I could easily get lost in something else and lose him by my carelessness, not really believing I will stay with him, instead hanging out with other men.. but maybe my actions have less to do with it than I

    I am not sure how I can accomplish being with MILW if I don’t feel clear and focused about what I want .. so the best focus I think I can have right now is to be focused on feeling good and wanting the best from both men. … until I come up with something better.

    AND focusing on me, loving me, being in love with me….
    ugh this feel so against everything I grew up believing. And Yet all my life I’ve felt the importance and presence of Mirrors and Paradoxes.
    I keep forgetting, keep remembering… that…loving me.. is loving others.. sometimes. somehow I will reconcile this feeling that loving me focusing on me is not the right thing..

    I feel very confused about All of this.
    mirrors.. leaning back… loving freely.. gratitude.. (have been trying to mostly show it when he is leaning forward- if I have something to say, waiting until he contacts me)… sometimes I feel though that I shouldn’t hold back my love..that maybe I should just love freely even if it , be grateful for what he wants to give me and for all the positive qualities (even if there are other things that I don’t like)..

    i guess i can give my love freely if leaning back by waiting til he leans forward to give it, but still i must withhold some of it if I am mirroring the amount/way he is giving to me.

    I feel I don’t praise him enough, because both women he cheated on me with (that have happened more than once) are people who stroke his ego big time.. and I am shocked that he doesn’t see the fakeness of it? ….. one of them is just a blatant ego stroker, both of them were just social climbers to some degree (maybe trying to stroke their own ego I guess?) .. and one of them simply *mirrored his own words back to him* about things he wanted, how he felt about life in general, etcccc.. and he ate it up!! I could never bring myself to say things that were not 100% genuine.

    maybe that’s not why he did it, I don’t know. And besides, women who men cheat with are a temporary help for a rlsp out of balance somehow. … so they are “just for now”, and I am The One.

    I always feel like The One, In everything, it’s really kind of frustrating/tiring/lonely sometimes. but thank God because it challenges me in ways… that keep me fulfilled. But sometimes I feel like mother teresa “I just wish God didn’t trust me so much”.. lol. I feel self-conscious saying that. but I’ve always felt set-apart, and like the one who must be responsible, the wise one, the one who knows and has no excuse to do poorly, the one who is supposed to shine the light for others.

    feeling so vulnerable on this blog.

    so cute, baby has gone to fridge and brought me the yogurt twice this morning so I would get some out to eat. lol

  74.  #74Silver-Tongued Siren on February 17, 2012 at 11:43 am

    Lizka, I think I agree with Memulo #71…

  75.  #75Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 11:49 am

    I know. My head says I can trust him and that we were just starting to develop something strong again… But my NVs omg!!

    And the collegue keeps talking about it like I’m not there… 🙁

    Now my anti-panic plan can only come over at 8 tonight! That’s in 5 hours!! I have so many occasion to lean froward until then!!!!!

  76.  #76Iamabutterfly on February 17, 2012 at 11:57 am

    @54 Lizka – Girl, it may take everything you have in you, but LEAN BACK! Jack CD constantly has girls throwing themselves at him, and yet I’m the one he always comes back to. Why? Because I’m different. Be different, Lizka! Guys can’t resist DIFFERENT. Lean back!

    @68 Mali – awww, I know the feeling. haven’t seen you on the blog in a while, and I’ve missed you!

  77.  #77Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 11:59 am


    Try to feel the trust. No one is out there to betray you. Not in your head, but in your heart, please feel the trust.

  78.  #78Iamabutterfly on February 17, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    @75 Lizka – I have been where you have been. Rori talks about imagining yourself completely immersing yourself into your man. Hold him, feel him, smell him, listen to the sound of his voice…all in your mind. Then, mentally walk away and do something that FEELS GOOD. What are you into that feels good? Painting? Reading? Coffeehouses? Poetry? Or, if you’re feeling especially crazy, you can do something active. I like to go for a jog, or put on some loud music and sing at the top of my lungs and clean like crazy. Anything to get the obsessive energy out. You can do it!

  79.  #79Iamabutterfly on February 17, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    one time I even re-arranged my sock drawer like Rori recommended in one of her emails. I was feeling frantic and obsessive and wanted soooo to lean forward, so I ran into my room and put everything in my sock drawer one drawer down, and everything in that drawer one drawer up, to remind myself, that I’m doing things differently now.

  80.  #80Iamabutterfly on February 17, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    I feel a happy memory from one of my old cds who moved away. I wrote on my facebook that I just wanted to be held. And he wrote; “I’ll hold you if it will make you feel better.” Sweetest thing ever. Felt warm and melty and precious. I wish he didn’t live several hundred miles away now…

  81.  #81Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    Iamabutterfly thanks for your post to me. It helps a lot. Yes I want to be different. I want to be different from the other girls who are after him and chasing him and I want to be different from the Me he use to know.

    This feels like it’s gonna act like magic. I feel more hopeful…

  82.  #82gina on February 17, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    Hi ladies,
    I was readin through the comments and felt compelled to share that lately I’ve been listening a lot to Abraham, and have noticed major shifts in my life by following her advice not to focus on what’s missing..Like for instance Starla: instead of focusing on what’s missing in the relationship, maybe it’d feel better to acknowledge the feeling of lack – and then fill it by thinking: “I love having a sweet man in my life who sends me love every morning – how lucky am I!!? I can’t wait till I have a man in my bed, greeting me with love every morning. And I can’t wait till we’re going to sleep together, and I can’t wait to experience all that love before we fall asleep, and all day…!! I’m on the right track – I am attracting more and more love all the time, and it feels amazing. I can’t wait till my man is by my side, with his arms around me!” I’ve noticed that with this way of thinking, more and more love has been coming my way…

  83.  #83mali on February 17, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    @76- Iamabutterfly: I’ve missed you too! (Did you still want to connect on facebook? Some of the Sirens have created a Siren Island group btw :))

    Thankyou for understanding… I feel like I’m not alone. That feels good 🙂

  84.  #84Iamabutterfly on February 17, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    @81 Lizka – Yay! Glad I could help, and glad you are feeling more hopeful. Sometimes I seriously don’t feel like I know anything. Feels really good to feel helpful. 🙂

  85.  #85Iamabutterfly on February 17, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    @83 Mali – Absolutely. 🙂 I’ve just been kind of busy lately, and I felt like I needed to get away from the blog for a while and pray more. could you give me your info again? Thanks!

  86.  #86mali on February 17, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    Oooh yay!

    Ofcourse, my email address is

    Just email your facebook id 🙂

  87.  #87Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    Iamabutterfly –

    Sharing our stories IS being helpful to the others…

  88.  #88turquoise on February 17, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    Lizka…. I wish you had more fun girlfriends so that your weekends weren’t so dependent on a guy. I cannot believe that an absolutely gorgeous girl like yourself is so caught up on a man. Maybe it’s a canadian thing…. but sweetie, if you lived in the US, you’d be dripping with men.

    If I looked like you, I’d see if any collegues were going out for drinks after work or knew of something fun going on….. go home, get dressed to the 9’s, or at least look extremely hot, go out and have fun! Don’t sit around and wonder about ATW. Is he really gorgeous too? I wonder what it is about him that is so drool worthy of so many women.

    If I was leaning forward to anyone, it would be the hot guy from 2 years ago. Even just a , “Hi ______! I just saw _____ (thing, movie, heard a song, whatever) that reminded me of you. Hope things are well 🙂

    Or something along those lines.

    ATW isn’t asking you for a commitment yet, then go have fun with the hottie!

  89.  #89turquoise on February 17, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Lizka, I missed a few posts… forget the anti-panic plan. Second rate men (if that is what you think of him) isn’t going to be enough. Find something better if you can. Hugs!

  90.  #90Silver-Tongued Siren on February 17, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    75 iamabutterfly
    “Rori talks about imagining yourself completely immersing yourself into your man. Hold him, feel him, smell him, listen to the sound of his voice…all in your mind. Then, mentally walk away and do something that FEELS GOOD.”

    Iamabutterfly, thanks for this. I am going to do that NOW. after I finish posting here I will do that, then go shower, wash my hair (if baby’ll let me), clean the kitchen from last night, think of some goddessy things that make me feel good, prepare my room for my client tomorrow, and then tackle those taxes…. that I am doing “in exchange” for rent for our home since MILW is paying it.

    79 iamabutterfly
    “put everything in my sock drawer one drawer down, and everything in that drawer one drawer up, to remind myself, that I’m doing things differently now.”

    yess… I have been trying to do that too. “Change everything” as rori recommends on her Reconnect Your Relationship cd. I need to listen to #6 today…… keep forgetting. will put that on as I prepare the room for client..

    82 Gina:
    ” have noticed major shifts in my life by following her advice not to focus on what’s missing..”…. I have been wondering about this too and experimenting with it, however instead of “i can’t wait until MILW is back home, etc”.. instead, I have been trying to just find GRATITUDE for what I have in him that I DO love — when he does something I LIKE, even if he isn’t at home right now, when he comes over with food for me or baby, or wants to see us, hold me, whatever…

    Not sure if this is the way to go, since he has said he doesn’t want to be my life partner right now and doesn’t want to live together (i have told him not to contact me unless it’s about a sexually exclusive rlsp) …but….. I have kind of let my “demand” or “boundary” go since… i don’t know, he oversteps it all the time and as FW said maybe he is showing me that he won’t go for demands and he is trying to do this his way.. (he said “lets work on the friendship and see what happens – but I felt like he just wants to keep me in his life instead of lose me altogether – esp in case things don’t work out for him).. But I am curious about this. I have been meaning to listen to some more abraham also.

  91.  #91Lilybelly on February 17, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    Also Lizka~

    Beauty or not…he still remembers the you that you USED to be and is still learning to trust the you that you are TRYING to be and are growing in to.

    This sort of transformation takes time and it would be absolutely the best thing in the world for you to get busy doing something else…taking care of you and having some fun. I am taking guitar lessons and also am looking in to ballet. These are things for ME and have nothing to do with any man at all. These are things that are causing me to feel happier and there is nothing but benefit for ME to feel happier.

    Remember, energetically, they can feel our angst.

  92.  #92Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    My exboyfriend, this Ironman I am posting about sometimes (for a long time I thought he was my soulmate and love of my life, and I still think so sometimes even if we haven’t talk for over a year after a big fight) was also in a relationship coaching program… For men… (more sex oriented but still for commited relationship too). And he became a coach himself also later…

    Don’t know if you heard about it. It’s call “The Game, penetrating the secret world of pick up artist”. Anyway will tell you more about our strange relationship anoter day. Maybe tonight to distract myself…

    But anyway, the fact is he was very very addicted to this book and program and he was seeing in every girl, an opportunity to have sex. He was really goin ou in bars to “close” (get phone numbers) a maximum of girls and eventually date, sleep and if he finds the right girl, committ to her…

    So during the 3.5 years we were datin but not exclusive (we were officially together only for a few months), I was freaking out on any girl who was talking to him. And I guess I had good reasons to do so…

    So I think I understand where my panic is coming from when I hear ATW is attracting girls.

    Not that I am aware of this, I have to remind myself that ATW is NOT Ironman and that they are actually pretty different. It’s not because Ironman wanted to sleep with all the girls in the world that ATW wants to do the same. It’s not because it has happen to me in the past that it’s going to happen again… Guys are not all into this stupid “the game” book. ATW thought it was pretty awful actually when I told him about it…

    Ok breath Lizka… ATW is not Ironman… Give him a chance. You can trust him.

    I have to heal this. Being aware is the first step. Thank you Lizka for noticing this. Thank you Lizka for not having lean forward yet. Thank you lizka for spammin the blog instead of calling ATW. Thank you Lizka for painting you nails at work to feel more goddessy…

  93.  #93Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    If I need more of an emotional connection – do I just try to build it or do I say smth like ‘it would feel great to connect emotionally even closer’?

  94.  #94FlowerChild77 on February 17, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    Memulo…he may not be able to connect any more than he is due to his situation–wife and baby, etc.

    I don’t know if I’d be able to ‘wait it out’ until he is truly available.

  95.  #95Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    Lilybelly –

    I am trainning for a marathon. I run 4 times a week. yes it helps a lot. I always feel so good while running. And I notice that he is attractes by me when my energy is like that because he’s been calling me often when I’m out for a run…

  96.  #96FlowerChild77 on February 17, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    Lizka…you may be onto something about why you’re so triggered hearing about ATW being popular with the ladies.

    I agree with the other Sirens who’ve suggested leaning back and focusing on you. Spam the blog if you need to to keep from leaning forward. Like they said—be different and unique. 😉

  97.  #97Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Turquoise –

    Good idea about the guy from two yeara. I’m just afraid he’s not really single and his gf will heard about me texting him… I know her and we have a lot of friends in common too…

    And for the anti panic plan, the guy is also coming to fix my computer, so if he’s not useful to make me feel better, he’s still useful for my computer, hehe…and he’s brining wine so I can get drunk a little and not think of ATW…

  98.  #98Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    Thank you soooooo much sirens for all your support. I feel so impressed by myself that I could control myself and not lean forward yet… It’s been more than 2 hours. In the past, it would have take 5 minutes and I would hve trown an angry message at him very blamey and accusing…

    Now my vibe is a little better. The urgency feeling has almost dissapeared.

    I painted my nails and been busy here spamming the blog. I also put my earphones and listen loud music that reminds me of good moments of my life to avoid earig more of the collegue sh*t about ATW.

    Ok I am breathing…

  99.  #99Iamabutterfly on February 17, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    @92 Lizka – OH ! I feel so triggered by The Game! That book infuriates me. Admittedly, some of the advice it gives is effective, but it disgusts me the way it objectives women.


    Jack CD doesn’t know that I know this, but he uses David Deida’s Double Your Dating.

    That book doesn’t bother me nearly as much, but it does make me feel wary because it pretty much doesn’t talk about commitment at all, and I don’t like the part about him talking about men being evolutionarily wired to have sex with as many women as possible.


    Why do men secrete bonding hormones after sex if they stick around after sex, if that’s the case?


    I feel icky about it all…:/

  100.  #100Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 12:52 pm


    I don’t want to assume. I want to try and live my dream, so am giving it my best shot. I feel inspired and this doesn’t happen often for me.

    So all suggestions to my post 93 are very welcome 😉

  101.  #101Starla on February 17, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    Gina 82
    That is brilliant. Thank you for taking the time to share.

    I wonder where the line is between “optimistic” and “fool”. I don’t want to be a fool.
    Dominique, you’re right…this is MOSTLY me, but it comes from a basis of us discussing this and agreeing that we’d see each other more. That he would try to see me. He’s trying less than ever now, but his words are so intense. It’s hard for me to even believe the words he says if he we don’t connect face to face. They fall flat on me. I feel like this is HIS problem, as he’s not doing a very good job attracting me and keeping me interested. So in a few minutes, I’m going to drop the issue entirely inside of me, except for when I talk to him and I am feeling disconnected again.

  102.  #102Siren Angel on February 17, 2012 at 12:55 pm


    I had a bad experience with M playing this game:

    – Tell me something you love about me (the receiver of info is only allowed to say thank you)
    – Tell me something you think we align on (the receiver of info is only allowed to say thank you)
    – TELL ME SOMETHING I SHOULD KNOW (the receiver of info is only allowed to say thank you)

    It all went down the drain with the Tell me something I should know… Puts men on the spot and they immediately think of WHAT THEY DONT WANT YOU TO KNOW

    We both agreed at that moment to drop that question because it felt really weird.

    Just a comment on some of the threads above.

  103.  #103Iamabutterfly on February 17, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    that felt really negative after all the positive energy. didn’t mean to change the postive vibe. I loooove positive vibes! I feel powerful because I can always change the vibe!

  104.  #104gina on February 17, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    Girlfriend, love that part of you that holds you back from love because it worries bout bein a fool!

  105.  #105Siren Angel on February 17, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    Memulo @93,

    CREATE great experiences, don’t ask or talk about them. This is from my experience and mistakes.

  106.  #106Silver-Tongued Siren on February 17, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    update on MILW …

    after our text exchanges the other morning, … he called me, said he just wanted to let me know he had been thinking of me.. and.. well.. I love you! and I’m sorry you aren’t feeling as important as you would like… I don’t really know what else to say. I’ll talk to you soon – well I am heading over right now to do and I will be going to second job after that and be there til later this eve.

    I said “I love feeling thought of when I get your calls. <3 I also feel loved hearing your very genuine message and "I love you". It takes time and that makes me feel loved. Time + attention = quality time. I am surprised I didn't think of that description of quality time before."

    (because I've mentioned in the past not feeling connected and he would say "WE LIVE TOGETHER" – but being in the same room or doing things but not interacting/talking or going to events but spending it all with other people.. are NOT the kind of connection I need. I tried to describe before but never this simply!)

    after this he asked what my plans are for dinner.

    i almost didn't accept but then.. thought..well he likes to be spontaneous and i remember him once when we first got together years ago saying "well if it's meant to work out it will" – and I don't believe things just "work out" if they're "meant to" I think we have CHOICES and we take ACTION sometimes.

    Additionally, I recognized that he was trying to STEP up and give me what I wanted!! He saw that I need quality time to feel loved, and wanted to give it to me.

    So, I said "I haven't made any plans so far. Do you have any suggestions?"

    he said "my place or yours?" "I'm off around 8"
    …(ugh. let it go..let it go… and he will forget all about it)
    i wrote "i feel amused. which do you prefer?"

    (i thought that if we were in the environment he chose, he would feel best – and that if I let him guide and give that he would feel as though he pleased me!)

    He said "I'd like to rock the juicer for you at my place!"
    I said "OK I will be ready!"

    …..cont next post

  107.  #107Siren Angel on February 17, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    Dominique @68,

    WOW! thank you kindly and sincerely 🙂

  108.  #108Silver-Tongued Siren on February 17, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    Phone Call –

    he gets off wk and immediately calls me. Says “ok see you at the apartment!”

    …… I said. “oh I thought you were picking us up!” (I have *always* expected to be picked up regardless even living together. there have only been a literal handful of times where I did not expect to be picked up/ride together.)

    he was not happy about this. “why should i come pick you up and drive all the way over there etc only to come back here, and then have to leave again in the middle of the evening to take you back?” (he is very much about efficiency and “rational thinking”)…

    I said “oh……. I didn’t realize it was that big of a deal”……………”

    he started to get mad and said “nevermind! we will do this some other time!”
    I said “oh… okay. bye. ” and we hung up.

    I was in the midst of texting him to say I had been looking so forward to it, when I was saved by him calling back.

    he said “i’m sorry, I really do want to see you tonight, I want to make dinner for you etc” …
    but went straight to still being mad that he should pick me up. in fact implying that I was being “irrational and illogical”.

    (he loves to use these arguments on me – has even been emotionally abusive in the past – distracting me, invalidating me, crazymaking (telling me I am crazy, lazy, irrational, delusional)- etc … until I CALLED him on it, pointed out the exact things each time, or when he was changing subject etc, pointing that out…and have pointed out that it was emotional abuse – now he rarely does ANY of these things, but once in a while he still calls “irrational” or “delusional”.. lol.. poor man… what is he thinking about himself. I love him…. but he must be so hard on himself.)

    anyway – I explained (oops) that I felt I make a lot of effort for him – I get ready, look nice… etc.

    He said “i look nice for you too!” (……. no bearing here. you have no baby hanging on you crying, no little one to dress, no hair or makeup to do, no outfit to put together – and yes he looks GREAT, however he was already dressed from work! and it’s a tshirt and jeans!)….

    he said he still didn’t understand. I said because I’m the woman! and he said “oh because you’re the woman. now i’m really about to get off the phone”….. he did NOT like that “I’m about equality, sister”…

    I said “please listen. Not just BECAUSE I am the woman, but *because I AM the woman*, I have to do all these things: I look nice for you, I do my hair and makeup, get the baby ready – ALL while baby is literally hanging on me crying half the time, making it extremely difficult. not to mention all I’ve been doing all day, and then planning an outfit (and I didn’t mention to him that also it was a same day date, so I only knew a few hours ahead!)

    I agreed he looks nice for me too – and he is making effort too..but that this all takes effort. And that my opinion is as rational and logical as his IS. …. i took the stance that we were both right!

    then it came out that he had groceries in the car, etc..which he spent all his cash tips on ($25) and he said he wanted to go “home” and when he got there that he wanted to get it started, and it was already late (after 8pm)…

    (He was probably hungry – he gets grry when he’s hungry…..this is usually when I have dinner on the table when he gets home).

    He seemed to feel he was making a LOT of effort too. He still couldn’t understand why I needed him to pick me up. he asked twice if I got my car running. both times I ignored him and stuck to the issue.

    He said that He was going to Make Dinner For Me and HE was going to have to Clean Up, etc.

    I realized that it sounded like he intended to do all the work!
    (usually at home I have begun making dinner alone since he works so much etc..where we used to make it together before we had a family..two kids here. I make it about 50-75% of the time by myself, and I usually always clean alone while the family is watching a movie etc -even though I had started to change that dynamic)..

    I told him that he KNOWS I always help with things, and he wouldn’t be doing it alone…

    but realizing it seemed like he was wanting to DO these things for me… so… I said.. Fine, alright, I will drive over there, if that is what makes you happy!!!! he said YES! That will make me happy!

    and we moved on to discussing food, if there was anything I should bring from the house or pick up.. what we wanted to have..

    we started talking about mixed drinks and I suggested cucumber. he didn’t have any and i could’ve gotten some on the way and he almost let me – but then said “wait, you’ve got the baby, you would have to get you both in the car, get him out again, put him back in…. and I just want you to hurry and get here. I can go get them while you finish getting ready.”

  109.  #109elle on February 17, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    Lizka. I have been there so many times. I have really come to the conclusion that it is totally my problem. I have been hurt and neglected so often in my life that I have a hard time trusting what my bf tells me. When we are apart the NV’s come into my head and I get all sorts of bad feelings. Then we are together and I feel reassured and at ease again. For me the test is going to be over the weekend. I decided to do something different because trying to forget about it just isn’t working.

    First of all, of course I will try to keep as busy with things I like to do. Second, I saw him this morning and using FM’s I expressed that I was feeling anxious about the weekend etc and he reassured me of his love etc.

    I came straight home and wrote down a list.

    I will trust that what he says he means
    I will not let my NV’s get the better of me.
    I will not worry about things I have no control over
    I will remember that he loves me
    I will remember that he wants to move in with me and live his life with me
    I will remember that he is committed to me
    I will remember how it feels when he holds me and tells me that he loves me.

    So my plan is to re read this list every time I feel sad or anxious over the weekend. I know it will help me and I feel very good about things.

  110.  #110Starla on February 17, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    gina, pffft, fine, i will *pout*

    no, really, i will.

    eeesh, feels unnatural.

  111.  #111FlowerChild77 on February 17, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    BW…I just caught up with the last thread and have been thinking about his behavior. You say he’s a bit immature (or simply “in a different place” than you are—with totally different priorities.)

    My first impression was that he either doesn’t want to hurt you or he avoids conflict. Either way, he seems to be behaving in such a way that would surely make you say, “This is too painful and it’s not working for me.” Like he doesn’t want to be the “bad guy”—-even though being honest and saying he wants to leave would be the manly, step up thing to do.

    Cancelling plans with you by saying he “can’t afford it” and then having you transfer large amounts of money back to his account so he can party, etc.—to me seems like a cowardly “hint.” Also calling about his pants but not wanting to talk about anything. Again…ouch.

    The phone or txt conversation you posted sounds like he’s somewhat eager to label things between you as “over.”

    I’m not saying he is “wrong” in the real sense—I’m just saying how I would feel in your shoes.

    I would tell him he has the right to do whatever he likes, and thank him for letting you know what’s really important to him right now. (Saying this SINCERELY, not with ANY sarcasm.)

    And then just dive into your own life and CD like crazy (for YOU–not to rub in his face. In fact I’d just go about my business and not say anything to him about it or it will seem like you are doing it to see if it bothers him instead of doing it for YOU.)

    I’m still a baby Siren, so this is just my two-cents.

  112.  #112FlowerChild77 on February 17, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    Starla…I can relate you how you feel about him being so close and “talking about” missing you, etc. and not even bringing up the idea of stopping over.

    I know you want dates and your time asked for ahead of time and planned, etc. but he could mention stopping by for a hug on his way past your house.

    I know dwelling on it isn’t the answer, but I just wanted to say that I understand how you feel and why <3

  113.  #113gina on February 17, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    Hugs Starla, XOXO

  114.  #114Daria on February 17, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    im having facebook drama with Erika Awakening

  115.  #115Starla on February 17, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    wow, another guy asked me to dinner just now.

    That’s 5 CDs in rotation. and a 6th from out of town tonight (unless that woman he’s with is his girlfriend).

  116.  #116Silver-Tongued Siren on February 17, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    I drove over. He called when I was two minutes away. He said let him know when I pull in to the parking lot so he can walk down to press the button to open the gate to the parking garage. He was out there, pointed to a close parking space but I was already pulling into one (doh!!!!) so I pointed and smiled –
    and he carried baby in while I got baby bag and grocery bag of things I wanted to juice or add to dinner.

    things were great, we had fun with the juicer, he made me feel comfortable and taken care of. we did several types of juice, made mixed drinks, saved some juice juice for dessert, had a nice salad with lox, and he put on cartoons for our baby and found a toy he likes to play with.

    after dinner i asked if he had seen pix of my son that I just put up. he said no, went to check, fb wouldn’t work properly. checked his email, got stressed about a bill he was suddenly informed of that had to be paid that evening, looked at not very full bank account..i rubbed his back a little bit.. (he is used to getting LOTS of massage at home).

    the first time he showed me this place a few wks ago he said “this is what I want our house to look like.. our house is so cluttered etc (i pointed out we have LOTS more stuff) he said we could get rid of a lot..(i have tried before!?!) he said “well..mostly its just the carpet” (looks awful).

    earlier I had mentioned “you know, Our House would look so much nicer if we just replaced the flooring.” (the place he is staying is a nice downtown flat, very minimal and modern and nice concrete floors. we can’t do concrete floors, our house is pier and beam so floor is plywood beneath carpet).

    we looked at some pix i had collected of ways to do the floor with reclaimed wood, then looked at a site we planned to buy from a few years ago and calculated space and cost.. seems like a lot. he said “it’s really just the cost”….

    (and that leads again to me holding us back by not upholding my half of EVERYTHING while doing *everything* else perfectly AND taking care of baby since he isn’t ready to go to daycare, nor can i afford it). (things still felt good though, when we were talking about this..)

    he asked baby if we could put on an adult movie. he pulled me down on the sofa with him, held me, cuddled me, laid on my tummy. we comforted each other, tickling, massaging, hugging. later he started to touch me sexually. I said “you know it turns me on when you touch me that way”.. he kept on and later stopped.. and a little while later did some more.

    I started to like it, so he moved further and then wanted to go down on me. I let him for a few minutes, and then decided I was going to take charge of this. because I did NOT plan to have sex. so I sat on top of him and played with us both .. and rubbed breastmilk all over him… i feel so superior that I can offer this. 😀

    he loves it. (and said so)

    it felt so fun and fresh and sparkly.

    …. we lay on the sofa and baby wanted to nurse, and fell asleep. then MILW changed to a new movie and started to fall asleep too. (normal occurrence – falling asleep after dinner infront of a movie- as long as I’ve known him – unless we just stayed out late).
    I said “should I take baby to the house?” he said “okay. do you want to sleep here?” (think he hadn’t caught that it was a question. I shook my head no about something but he thought I meant no I didn’t want to and immediately said “ok”.. but fell asleep again. a while later i told him it was late and I was putting baby in bed. he said “are you going to sleep here?” i said yes, I don’t want to disturb baby or have him wake up with you gone”… (baby felt SOO good being with him for several hours instead of in and out).
    (i also should have shared feeling msgs that *I* wanted to be there but I forgot).

    we slept. in the morning i woke up before he did and since we had baby I never get to play with him at night or wake him up like this. so I took the opportunity. he loved it. eventually he wanted to have sex, and I told him no.. because I don’t think you’ve been wearing condoms with whomever you were with “no” he said, – and also I don’t know where you’ve been.”

    I THOUGHT he said “I haven’t been with anyone since I was with you last.” so I went ahead.. and it felt good to be with him. I felt like I was rewarding him for being more self controlled.

    everything felt wonderful.. then he realized suddenly he had to be at work. he got up got a quick shower, made us some quick food – tortilla roll ups with almond butter and fig/apricot jams and the juices we made last night for today.

    i asked for b vitamins out of the vitamin bag he keeps to himself for when we go places, and he gave me C’s, too.

    everything felt good, he walked us to the car, put baby in, and he agreed to watch baby during my client appt if i had one that day. she turned out to want sat and he agreed to that. …….

    ….cont later

  117.  #117Siren Angel on February 17, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    Just thought I’d share this to help you focus on YOU:

  118.  #118Silver-Tongued Siren on February 17, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    -correction – he said he loved when i play with myself- not about the milk but he loves that, too –

    and he kissed me a looott

    where he has been stingy about kisses in the last couple of years-

    and also put my hand to his heart or mine to his, afterwards… felt the love coming from him…

  119.  #119Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 1:20 pm


    Thank you 😉

    Btw I am still waiting for your scripts! Unless you posted them already?

  120.  #120Starla on February 17, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    Daria, why bother? That woman just calls us all names and is rude to us, in the name of “healing.” Yikes. Don’t worry about her. The hypocrisy and projections are beyond obvious to anyone with a high-school level education that took psych 101 as an elective. Let the crazies play in the street by themselves. I unsubscribed from all her sh*t looong ago, and noticed that the number of mutual friends she and I had on facebook has dwindled substantially.

  121.  #121Starla on February 17, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    that was pretty harsh of me. i feel pretty good when i’m being harsh. it feels better to be angry than to be “not good enough”

  122.  #122Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    elle –

    “I will trust that what he says he means
    I will not let my NV’s get the better of me.
    I will not worry about things I have no control over
    I will remember that he loves me
    I will remember that he wants to move in with me and live his life with me
    I will remember that he is committed to me
    I will remember how it feels when he holds me and tells me that he loves me.”

    Would love to stick to this list but some of them doesn’t wrk for me because even thought we’ve been commited in the past, we just recently dating and everything is so fresh and weak tjat I’m afraid he changes his mind and walk away… 🙁

  123.  #123Lilybelly on February 17, 2012 at 1:27 pm



  124.  #124Starla on February 17, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    now i am feeling like i should call CF back, and be open and sweet.

    but i think this is me wanting to overfunction/feeling guilty for having standards.

    when in doubt, lean back.

  125.  #125Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    Turquoise I’ve followed your advice and sent the 2 years ago guy “hey, just heard this song that reminded me of you. Hope things are well”

    I feel sooooo good 🙂

  126.  #126Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    And I think DjCD is back with his ex too… She is “in a relationship” on Facebook and I know she was still crazy about him… 🙁 not my day apparently…

  127.  #127Turquoise on February 17, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    Hi sirens! I am home from work and sleepy, so going to take a little nap before making dinner and getting some housework done. My ex said he’ll call me when he leaves work, and let me know what the plan is about coming up. I told him that next weekend is totally booked up, but the weekend after that is open. Then I said, but it would feel nice to see you this weekend, so I do hope you make it. He said he’ll be here at least some of it. Most likely he’ll probably wait and head up early tomorrow, but no expectations, so we’ll see what happens.

    Tom, the guy who brought me to the blog last year, ordered some girl scout cookies and I’ll get them Sunday, so I texted him to let him know I’ll have them Monday. He asked if he could come pick them up next weekend. He lives about an hour from here… soooo glad he didn’t ask me to deliver them! I said, “sure, that would be great. Thanks!” I am actually kind of busy next weekend, but will have free time to fit him in. I’m planning a surprise 11.5 party Friday for CV (my oldest) because she didn’t have an 11th party because we moved that weekend. Then Saturday we have girl’s night at my moms. This guy is such a guy…. and I did just about EVERYTHING wrong after the first few weeks. It would be interesting to practice on him, see if he mentions any changes in me. Since I have no interest in him romantically, I’m sure my vibe will be way different. He is a nice guy, just a commitment phobe, and really liked to be the guy. Which is great now… but back then I liked my boy energy a lot! He even told me stuff like that he liked kissing, but he likes to be the one initiating the kissing. I cooked soup and took it to him when he was sick. He did always drive other than that. I only went to see him once. He always paid… was the one who asked me to go to Florida with him after a week of dating… he’s also the one I went to the U2 concert with this summer, and we had $250 seats. That has to be the most expensive date I was ever on. So, who knows… maybe he’s single and will ask to take me out, I don’t know if I’d go or not… but maybe. To practice. He didn’t give me any presents. Didn’t even text me on Valentine’s Day last year, and we’d been dating a month at that point. I don’t really know that I’d want to give him another chance. Oh well, may be getting ahead of myself. He might just be coming to get his two boxes of girl scout cookies! LOL.

    The only reason I’m even thinking about this is that I’m not CDing any men. I chat with the guys at work, but I’ not even seeing guy friends for lunch or anything. I know I want to be with my ex, but all the advice here is to CD, keeps you from obsessing over one, keeps your vibe up…. I refuse to go back on POF, and would really enjoy a break from online dating. I looked into those meetups. Maybe I’ll start with that.

    The biggest mistake I feel I’m making with my ex, is that he probably has no doubt he could have me back. Even with all the crap that happened between us…. I forgave him. I forgave myself. How do you be open and warm and receptive, and still keep them on their toes?

    I might try and get my hair cut tomorrow… it’s getting kinda wild. Feels like I need more style. I always get caught here… let it grow really long, or go back to shoulder length? My hair doesn’t look like my FB pic right now. It’s really dark too. I went back to my natural color in Nov. and now am rethinking that. I might get some Feria tomorrow and lighten it up. Any suggestions?


    Have you talked to CF about how often you’ll see each other once he moves? Maybe he’s trying to establish a boundry?

    I remember once when my ex (we started dating in college) was about to graduate and then would be leaving for the army, and he went away for a long weekend to Vegas to visit a friend. I felt really sad thinking that he’d be leaving soon, and not just an hour away, 14 hours away… and that he’d rather go away without me, then spend a few extra days together. I let it go though, no sense getting mad over it. But, did my own thing, planned out my summer and prepared for him to go. He came back and was home a few days before he had to leave. Everything was good with us.. but I definitely shifted my focus onto myself. He was only gone a week and he drove all the way back up to see me for the weekend because he missed me so much. A month later he told me he’d had a talk with his mom, she wanted to know what his intentions were with me because he was gone, and I was still in school. He told me he’d told her that he was going to spend the rest of his life with me. He flew me down to visit for about 5 days. A month later I went back down to see him and he proposed, with a big diamond. We dated for 2.5 years before that happened, but the last 8 months were when all the action happened. In January we’d broken up, gotten back together in Feb. but him telling me he wasn’t sure what he wanted. I told him he’d better figure it out, because after 2 years, if he didn’t know he wanted me, I wasn’t waiting around for him. Another month went by, he was ready to commit and plan a future. 5 months later I had the ring. Geez… I was such a siren back then! LOL.

    I’ve said it before, Distance can be your BEST FRIEND girlfriend, if you let it. Embrace the distance, let him have the opportunity to MISS YOU and the void he feels in his life without you there.

    Stop telling him you want to see him more. It’s not helping, and you just feel upset. Keep your schedule so busy… that you couldn’t see him even if you wanted to. That vibe will seep over, and he’ll figure it out very quickly! I can see it now. I predict CF will be lost without you when he moves, and begging you to spend whole weekends with him.

  128.  #128lk on February 17, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    i’m feeling delighted thinking of all the trigger i have & how they affect me…

    a big 1 is… i feel afraid of being embarrassed in front of other women… especially by my man giving them more attention than Me. hmmm if i feel like this with cd ever… it will most likely be a Fluke or me Misinterpreting (i trust – but i’m awake & observing & tracking my feelings)…

    i’m sure sometimes i do that to him. it’s just humans. we’re imperfect & we love imperfectly ! how perfect : )

  129.  #129Silver-Tongued Siren on February 17, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    hope this is not TMI for anyone.

    Anyway, all was well.

    Then he showed up hours later at the house, unannounced.
    House was a huge mess, he asked if there was anything to snack on, I gladly pointed out what there was.. he said it looked like I overbought on the food in the fridge cause some of it was getting bad. he always thinks this when i do the shopping (though I have let him do it more and more cause its hard with baby and MILW LIKES going grocery shopping).

    anyway I said I didn’t overbuy. (i just haven’t had felt inspired to cook as much for myself this week… felt depressed a bit).

    i cleaned up the house a little (did I mention I was walking around in my underwear most of the time? with no makeup, having just showered – but we usually live together, he’s seen me this way, … but still! i felt self-conscious a little bit. :D)


    ……. i don’t know, at this point for him, some negative feelings may have set in –

    and he said to baby “are we friends?” … and I have heard this so many times recently it’s really getting to me and I have bit my tongue up til now – and said “you’re not *friends* he doesn’t want a friend”… or something. gah silver.

    he didn’t say anything but gave me a look.

    during this visit we had a discussion that was something like “we can date, if you let me do what I want” and i said “i want to let you do what you want, I just can’t have sex with you unless I know it’s only us” and he said “well you are having sex with me while I’m having sex with others” and I said “no i’m not – you haven’t in a while – you said you you hadn’t been with anyone since me last” and he said “no i said I was with so and so-” I did NOT understand this when he said this the night before. but anyway, ok.

    somehow we got on the discussion about condoms and how that scares me to death that he hasn’t been using them – with “so and so” it’s because “she’s allergic to latex” so the fuck what. tell her to go get her own husband anyway. I told him “especially her – she sleeps with everything! and he said well she hasn’t lately. only this one guy. and i don’t think she’s even had sex in a while actually”.. I said “it doesn’t matter – even if she hasn’t. even if she’s been tested things can show up a lot later, and even if it’s one person, one person is enough!!” … “also!, about getting someone pregnant!! THAT scares me to death. and if that were to happen, it’s not your choice anymore. etc” ..

    he said something about a fundraiser for a vasectomy, which he has mentioned several times in the past few years, and I don’t want him to, for health reasons as I have heard lots of men have bad experiences with long term effects, erectile dysfunction, severe long term pain, ..etc. ALSO because I want the OPTION there even if we choose not to use it, of having a baby. he said “it’s up to you?” and I said no, it’s up to you, but I think you would consider me.” and he said “i don’t want to have any more kids. I’m done. I’m __age” I said I just want the option there, even if we don’t use it. He said “well it can always be reversed..” as he’s walking out to the car. I said yes but you know how worried I am that it’s unhealthy, dangerous, etc. he said “I know….” and gave me a sad annoyed face and left.

    texted and called me that he gave the kid across the st money to cut our lawn. to check on him later.

    i called to ask if he wanted certain things done, because last time he got upset with ME that I didn’t make the man do the job well enough (i thought it was ok, but I guess not) so I wanted him to be more specific this time, so I asked a couple questions. then I let him know how good last night felt, etc…….. he said just don’t get confused, just because we had sex doesn’t mean we’re together- we don’t have a commitment, I don’t want a commitment right now. but if you can be ok with that, and with me seeing other people, we can date. …..

    i forget what else was said, but somehow when I expressed my good feelings briefly, he didn’t like it and shut down..something about the way I responded… about what I wanted. which was just expressing what I wanted, not saying he had to do it, but I must’ve done it wrong.

    I texted (oops leaning fwd?) after the conversation – that my stomach felt tight and I just wanted to express how good everything felt” which I did a little more just telling him I feel good! 🙂 and he didn’t respond to that. i asked if he wanted the kid to do one other thing to the lawn that I wasn’t sure about, and a while later he responded “yes do that”…. no response to other text.

    I didn’t inform him about how the lawn fared, or anything else…. Intending to wait til he reached out for me.

    Instead, by evening, I felt it would be ok to reach out for him and give freely my love as long as I wasn’t expecting anything from him. I called, about 11:40, and hear him accidentally answer the phone and hang up. i hear … he texts (thankful for this, he answered, immediately) “at a bar, what’s up”

    15 mins later I texted “just saying I love you and ask for dada night night for baby (who was still not relaxed even after a long bath). would you like to come home tonight? your family and bed are here when you want to be held and loved. going to keep rocking baby to sleep! I LOVE YOU! (I know I know. I should have kept it short and not so leaning fwd). “Ps i managed to get the back yard mostly cut this evening even with baby out there!”

    I wish I had done a little better with this but I gave it a try…oops.

    10 mins later he said “Thanks for doing that. have a blessed evening”

    … (at least he feels enough responsibility for the yard that he said thanks. he still has attachment to our house).
    I felt SAD that he didn’t say I LOVE YOU back. And I was about to express it!! But I leaned forward being too out there when he was clearly a bit shut down.

    And I remember that rori says after a period of intense intimacy (which in our case is intimacy/checking in a little after him checking out)… that men sometimes will need some space.

    I will do my best to give him some space.

    Instead of expressing how sad I was that he didn’t say “I love you”, I sent gratitude right back that said “thank you for the quick response and kind and loving words.<3)"

    3 hours later, 3:15 in the morning, … (when he is unhappy with me he would go out a lot to bars/dancing etc. and stay out even though I couldn't go since baby most of the time, and will stay out ALLL NIGHT and not notify me – when he is happier with me he will let me know his plans around this time).

    so 3:15 came around and he said "guy friend is staying with me at tonight. Thanks for the

    “Invite. Give baby my love. See you soon!”

    urghgh and in my sleep state I said “:( i want you home. love you.”

    this morning I said good morning love! I feel loved and important getting goodnight messages when you go to sleep! Thank you for making me feel good.”

    ….. sooooo
    I leaned forward a bit more than I should’ve…
    and yes he was closed – I shouldn’t have contacted him after he left the house or after I clarified the lawn care..
    I guess because of our awkward interchange at home in the afternoon, he was too closed to hear my “i feel good” msgs – I just wanted to show him that no matter what, i felt good, so he could feel good too and not feel worried that I was *expecting* too much even if I do *want* it.

    … oh well.
    I think he’s feeling guarded but yet still was able to open to me a tiny bit – which is why he even ANSWERED my invitation to come home last evening.

    I will sink myself into his care right now and then go do something else!!

    Big updates. gosh. I always feel like there is so much to say top give a clear picture.

  130.  #130Silver-Tongued Siren on February 17, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    128 LK
    “a big 1 is… i feel afraid of being embarrassed in front of other women… especially by my man giving them more attention than Me. hmmm if i feel like this with cd ever… it will most likely be a Fluke or me Misinterpreting (i trust – but i’m awake & observing & tracking my feelings)…”

    I HATE feeling that way. I have been so …. humiliated by this!!

    … MILW doing things with other women when he has me/family at home to be with… yes I feel humiliated to put up with it, to try to work with him on it, i feel humiliated like that it must say that I am not good enough somehow.

    that feels bad. I have felt that way in the past. I feel that way a little bit now still.

    I hope that it is ALWAYS a fluke or misinterpretation for you!! 🙂 In general, I think we should always assume the best of our partners/cds. 🙂

  131.  #131Starla on February 17, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    Turquoise, yeah, we talked about it, and he said he’d make sure we see each other 3 times a week when he moves, and that he’d take all that responsibility on himself.

    I told him I don’t do long distance and that if he wanted me to keep dating him, i’d need to have that connection. So he offered that.

    It’s just weird. He’s being so sweet verbally, but I’m not FEELING it. I need to be touched and kissed. I asked for this a bazillion times. At this point, I feel like, well he’s failing to attract me, really…his problem, not mine, right?

  132.  #132lk on February 17, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    i’m trying to think… Love Courageously…. that’s big. Love Courageously. that makes me want to cry.

  133.  #133lk on February 17, 2012 at 1:55 pm


    yes, assume the best… & share our boundaries.

    & also i do believe in myself & trust myself that i can make my partner aware of my triggers, so that they can be sensitive, while still taking 100% emotional responsibility for myself.

  134.  #134Silver-Tongued Siren on February 17, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    update on BF – still no response to my email about living situation there…… (exclusive or not, moving toward marriage or not etc). he has said before he doesn’t want to get married but you never know when he’ll change his mind.

    i had to ask though. i felt tired of this hanging in the air, tired of not knowing cause if he really was that into me and willing to take a chance, you never know, I MIGHT, too.


    but, no response. lots of fb updating on his part…… lots of posting links to news articles… and one posting of
    “”Vile and ingrate! too late shall thou repent
    The base injustice thou hast done my love:
    Yes, thou shalt know spite of thy past distress,
    And all those ills which thou so long hast mourn’d;
    Heav’n has no rage like love to hatred turned
    Nor hell a fury like a woman scorn’d.”
    The Mourning Bride, A tragedy by William Congreve”…

    I am not even going to attempt to read into that because it’s probably about him or something completely unrelated to me.
    Why am I even looking?
    because I know he puts things up purposely sometimes. stop looking!

    I wonder what I should do though, since he hasn’t responded. I wonder if it has made him feel so shut down not knowing how to answer this question ….(and it doesn’t have to, it’s just a question, a big one yes, but he could treat it like “i am not ready for that now, etc”… but… yet he doesn’t say anything. which tells me that A)no he’s not ready? and B)he hesitates because he is afraid i won’t like what he has to say?

    I don’t know.
    Love you Sirens, I will check back later tonight!

  135.  #135Turquoise on February 17, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    Yeah Starla…. if he’s not stepping up and giving you what you want/need, and have asked for…. then it is his problem.

    Next time he starts saying all those warm lovey things, could you say,

    I hear you saying that, but I’m not feeling it. Words without actions to support them, feel hollow to me. Or some variation of that?

    LIZKA! Go girl… and seriously, stop worrying about what other women think. If the 2 year ago guy isn’t married to her, then you sending him a text is no big deal. Seems like a lot of women treat you badly for no reason. I think those ladies in the office are saying those things to you on purpose.

    This is the kind of stuff that makes me want to play games, like send flowers to myself. So word gets back to atw through them.

    Hmmph, I feel mad at those work people for you.

  136.  #136Butterfly Wings on February 17, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    Thank you everybody for your comments last night. You really helped me to start my “attack” in a positive sireny way!

    I was absolutely furious with TH when he came home. OMG I was shaking I was sooo mad!!!

    And I told him that. I said I felt really angry and upset and felt unimportant and that I want to feel loved and cherished and wanted.

    He was all over me at this point and I wasn’t buying it.

    I was also a little unsireny in expressing how I felt but I wasn’t yelling and I wasn’t throwing accusations at him the whole time at least.

    I mentioned the money and he hasn’t even spent it apart from a little last night. And then I asked what the real reason was for not inviting me to the music festival. He said he just wanted to go with the boys.

    So then we had a conversation about that and I told him I was perfectly ok with him wanting to do “boy stuff” sometimes. And I will do “girl stuff” too. And I told him how bad it felt to be told he couldn’t afford to take me then be asked to withdraw $1500 in two days. Ouch.

    He was very apologetic and telling me how wonderful, sexy and fantastic I am (we already KNOW that, duh!)…

    And I then mentioned today and how he was going to the races, so he had even more boy time happening there, and then he said “I’m not going to the races. I’m coming with you to B’s party”. What?????

    Originally he told me he wouldn’t be going – my ex will be there, some of my ex’s family, some of my family and a heap of my girlfriends, so I did the whole “Learn to take no for an answer” thing at the time and dropped it considering I knew he would hate every second of it!

    So I was kind of shocked that he chose to come with me to the party instead of doing “boy stuff”.

    And then he asked me to turn on my laptop (we often watch TV shows in bed from the laptop and I was thinking this was NOT a good time for TV watching!).

    He told me to go to FB and update my relationship status.

    Now, most of you are probably thinking “So what?”. But for TH this is huge. MASSIVE. He is such a private person, such an introvert that I never thought he’d be up for it – especially because we have a heap of work people on FB! He also told me to make sure I say it’s him and he’ll approve it in the morning (this morning) so it appears on his profile too.

    I then brought up the baby thing and how I understand he’ll need more time to think about that, and he told me that all he wants is to be with me. Nobody else. I asked what about MW and he said “I don’t want to be with her. I want you and only you. You are the only one I want to be with.”.

    He also thanked me for always being there – always being someone for him to come home to. He said it meant a lot to him. So I do feel kind of appreciated for that part. And he also went on about how beautiful and sexy I am and all of the things he says only rarely.

    I’m still feeling stunned about the FB thing, but a little secure that he’s about to finally (after almost two years!) tell the world about us.

    I know we still have a long way to go, but I am very sure that he could sense just how mad I was even though I didn’t lose it with him last night. I’ve never been that mad at him before. And I think that maybe he thought he might lose me if he didn’t do something different. And he was right. I was so ready to walk last night.

    His family (including his mother, sister and brother) are on FB too. This will be interesting! Haha! He tells them NOTHING, so this will shock them I think!

    Today I feel so much happier and finally my breathing has returned to normal!

  137.  #137Siren Angel on February 17, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    Memulo, I haven’t had time – have been reading bits and pieces and I have to read STS’s posts tomorrow… Can’t do it now, I am on my cell getting ready to go to M’s. I will posts some scripts as soon as I can. I posted one to Brenda I believe earlier today.

  138.  #138Daria on February 17, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    Silver Tongue – it helps me to drop the “debates” as to why he ‘should’ do for me

    I catch myself and STOP go directly to feeling messages.

    that doesn’t feel good. i dont want to drive over there.

    it doesnt feel good TO ME to meet up iwht a man when im not being picked up. Silence.

  139.  #139Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    Turquoise –

    ” How do you be open and warm and receptive, and still keep them on their toes

    Wonderring about the same too… I think ATW is pretty sure he can have no matter what…

    If someone has suggestions, I’m really open to it…

  140.  #140elle on February 17, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    Lizka, maybe you can make your own list so that you can remind yourself not to let your mind get out of hand when you are away from one another. I have to admit that I have re read my list a couple of times today. So far it is really working for me. I feel calm. I feel his love even though he isn’t with me and somehow I just know that I will get through this weekend ok.

  141.  #141Daria on February 17, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    I imagine myself as a woodland goddess rooted to the rock i live on, men have to come to ME to worship and bring garlands of flowers, smoke and food offerings

  142.  #142Daria on February 17, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    Lizka – yes!!! don’t let him come over last minute!!!

  143.  #143Daria on February 17, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    say oh it feels so rushed… it would feel so good to see you… im free on:

    that boundary can determine whether he’s a step up guy or poofs… and it will get you used to being treated better

  144.  #144Daria on February 17, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    whoa deep! fairness is big for me.. i wonder if i can tap and eliminate this paradigm… WOW THEN!

    :: The Myth of Fairness ::

    There’s nothing natural about our notions of

    If you play checkers with a 2-year-old, he won’t
    perceive any unfairness when you randomly take
    his checkers off the board, nor would he feel
    the slightest guilt in taking yours.

    Such things don’t seem unfair until we are
    *taught* the arbitrary rules of the game and
    accept them as “the way things are.” Then we feel
    a sense of violation when the rules are broken:
    “That’s not fair!”

    Children often enjoy being “mischievous” because
    breaking arbitrary rules helps them reconnect with
    the truth that Authentic Power lies not in the
    rules but in themselves.

    Today, when you observe an apparent injustice,
    pretend there’s no such thing as fair/unfair.
    It just IS. You’ll discover that when there’s no
    injustice to fight against, all that’s left to do
    is reach for your heart’s desire.

  145.  #145Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    Turquoise –

    “This is the kind of stuff that makes me want to play games, like send flowers to myself. So word gets back to atw through them.”

    What a lovely idea… I know its game, but it’s gonna make me feel so good so why not! 🙂

  146.  #146FlowerChild77 on February 17, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    Lizka…I’m not sure, either. I still have a problem (at times) leaning back and not getting detached and kind of ‘cold.’ I don’t mean to, but it’s hard for me to find the right balance—especially when I’m around him and not getting what I need.

    I think it’s a protective/survival response to shut down so it doesn’t hurt so much.

    Sigh…I’m such a baby Siren. I admire all of you to no end <3

  147.  #147Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Thank you Daria… I won’t let him make last minute plan this weekend. Sometimes they are good, but this weekend I want to have plans. And I want to feel different from all the girls who are doing anything they want. I want to be a siren…

    elle – yes I will work on my own list tonight as soon as i get home. Good idea! I’ll post it here! Thank you for inspiration!

  148.  #148lk on February 17, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    I don’t “get” what to do… when another woman is flirting with my Man… & he is being Polite. It’s infuriating !!! right ?

    what does a siren do ?

    Not flirt with the other woman. that’s like, yeah ! you are really cute ! go on… you deserve my lovely Man

    : (

    Also, not Compete…..

    But maybe be a boundary ? be a physical boundary ?

    Go up & put a hand on his back & smile & out-girl ?

    I would do that if really a line got crossed for me somewhere…. Like, i’d go over, put a hand & be sweet & then whisper to my man when the lady was gone, hey baby, i feel bad when ladies do that to my man… what do you think ? & he’d probably grab my bum & make out with me : ) lol


    wow, actually i think i could even say to the girl separately… “i feel a little silly saying this, because i really believe you’re such a sweet girl & wouldn’t want me to feel sad or uncomfortable…. but i feel weird seeing other women touch my Man like that or whatever… & i don’t want to feel unsafe… what do you think?”

    um um um

    ok but what do i do if it’s just baby-ish & he’s smiling & she’s being just a bit Too Much for me….

    that’s my stuff. eek. i have to do it alone ? you have to do it alone i think… how ? ummm……

    ok, so just put the focus back on Me – not Him or Her. & pour love on all of us. & let it go ?

    i feel it’s Dangerous to “let it go”…. possibly after the situation, i could just say, baby i felt….. when…. & leave it at that ? maybe i can ask CD what he thinks about this…

  149.  #149Turquoise on February 17, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    Yeah Lizka… send yourself some flowers to work. 🙂 Have the card just signed something poetic, with a letter, not a name. or just something like,

    ” I can’t stop thinking about you!”


    (or whatever letter doesn’t start with his name 🙂

    Those people are trying to get under your skin. I love that you put on your earphones. 🙂

    I’m curious which one he is, I tried looking at your friends list, but realized ATW is around the world, not his initals. 🙂

  150.  #150Turquoise on February 17, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    Yeah Lizka… send yourself some flowers to work. 🙂 Have the card just signed something poetic, with a letter, not a name. or just something like,

    ” I can’t stop thinking about you!”


    (or whatever letter doesn’t start with his name 🙂

    Those people are trying to get under your skin. I love that you put on your earphones. 🙂

    I’m curious which one he is, I tried looking at your friends list, but realized ATW is around the world, not his initals. 🙂

  151.  #151lk on February 17, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    i’m a woodland goddess rooted to the rock i live on….

    another woman speaks to my Shrine Partner… my Care-Taker…

    what do i care ? i don’t even notice : )

  152.  #152Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    Turquoise when I’ll get home I’ll connext to fB chat amd show you wich one he is. We have a lot of pics together. I’ll be there in 15 minutes. 🙂 you’re cute. I’ll definitely send the flowers next week probably! 🙂

  153.  #153Daria on February 17, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    Lk – i think Rori mentioned in one program that in such a situation a secure woman can actually Yes flirt and engage with the woman herself…

    oh i feel overhwhelmed i feel shaky just imagining it… babysteps

  154.  #154Daria on February 17, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    Lizka – in the spirit of being authentic, i would not send myself a fake message… but i /WOULD SO SEND MyseLF ?FLOWERS!!

  155.  #155Daria on February 17, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    Lk – rori has a tool where you imagine the man in front of you, you leaning back, him leaning in, all his energy and attention on you, smiling…

    then you add in other women around, walking past , thrugh yall, maybe to him talking to him… and practice still feeling HIS ENERGY FULLY COMING towards you

    then add in other men aroudn too, and still feel his energy fully coming towards you


    ive had some times when using this tool this felt like a real Powerful shift for me

  156.  #156lk on February 17, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    i don’t want to flirt with the other woman, daria.

    i feel gross hearing that honestly…

    & i feel gross noticing my own reaction !

    i don’t want to “validate” the Other Woman’s attraction

    : (((

    except actually, now i’m thinking of it, usually when this happens, CD will try to “pass” the interaction on to me, so that I have to talk to the girl…. & actually, i do “flirt” only *I* am the girl — OH i get it.

    thanks, daria : ) you’re a jewel. really, truly a jewel. & i would be pxssed if you talked to my man in any way other than the way you talk to a pastor/brother/etc. LOL i’m a little hormonal & cr8zy but i love myself so much anyway. i love myself radically & unconditionally.

  157.  #157Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    Daria – 153

    I can send a very authentic message that can sounds confusing for others lile ” you are so beautiful Lizka I lobe you” hehe


  158.  #158FlowerChild77 on February 17, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    I might be wrong about this, but when a man is talking to a woman and his wife/gf sees it and comes running up and calls him “honey” or makes some physical gesture–what I see is the wife/gf being very insecure like she has to go claim her guy in a big way in front of this other woman. (Usually makes me go ‘ick.’)

    On the other hand, this is not something I have to worry about ever, at all. So maybe I am being too objective about it, not having to experience those jealous, fearful feelings.

  159.  #159Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    Or “Lizka you are beautiful and funny woman. Yours forever…”

  160.  #160Luzydel on February 17, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    I feel lonely; but it is not because I am not Cding, but because Cd too much before. I lost touch with myself, and I miss me. I cried, I sort of screwed up with “S”, I should have left him alone, “D” sucks and I am going to call “OK” because he is my best friend. My ex husband did something amazing for me today. I am so thankful for that. Still I feel nostalgic and lonely…I crave for such a connection that is so difficult to find.

  161.  #161lk on February 17, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    oh i love the imagining tool with the energy : )

    i can do that too i feel unstable or shaky

    thank you, daria

    i feel a little odd & ashamed that i have so much Upset about this… but i suppose i have a little Belief that Women Steal Men still… & actually, that happens…. but it’s ok. i love everyone radically & unconditionally, & i can only do that if i do it for myself first.

  162.  #162Daria on February 17, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    lk – that thing is a big deal for me. i freeze up and get shaky mad. im close to losing it and cho9ckin a bi8ch out sometimes but usually i shut it down to silence

    i want to heal this

  163.  #163Starla on February 17, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    ok haha this is taken from a text message conversation with a “crazy” lady. Just thought I’d share because I know we’ve ALL done this one way or another in our lives with a man;)

  164.  #164Ella on February 17, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    So a guy on POF contacted me but lives a couple of hours away from me.

    I said something like ‘It feels nice of you to say that and you look lovely and I feel disappointed that you live so far away. I don’t want long distance dating.
    What do you think?’

    To which he replied

    “well, i have always said that distance should’nt be an obstacle for two souls that love each other, they should put up the effort to meet and see how things goes, as we have seen most people now adays meet their other half from different countries and decide to move there. perhaps you have a different openion to it, do you agree with me?”

    I feel like ‘errrr, NO!!!!’

    And what is this cra8p about two souls who love each other????

    This is like our second e-mail!


    Feeling grumpy.

  165.  #165Daria on February 17, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    Lizka – HELL YEAH 🙂 that is the TRUTH!

  166.  #166Daria on February 17, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    i feel jealous… i want to get love flowers from myself with an I love you Daria message…

  167.  #167lk on February 17, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    & actually i did that the other day & this girl was being all WOWEEEE LOOK LISTEN I’M WEARING A CROPPED TIGHT SWEAT SUIT & A HOOTERS SHIRT & MY TUMMY SHOWS HOORAH & i was just listening at Level 2 so i didn’t get distracted by the outfit… & was saying, “wow i’d feel so….” etc., just reacting “normally” & i did notice that the other man listening to the conversation had his energy on Me — which i did think was odd, since I was the hush-hush girly softy one…. but now that interaction makes more sense.

  168.  #168Dominique on February 17, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    Iamabutterfly – I don’t want to be picky, but I love David Deida’s work, and his work IS NOT Double Your Dating. This would be David D’Angelo.

    My absolute favorite book by DD is Dear Lover. I highly recommend to any and all.


  169.  #169lk on February 17, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    awwww & now i feel ALL sweetened, because i just saw 2 coworkers & practiced girl-flirting with them & i was so happy doing it : ) & also, it wasn’t competitive or anything & i felt very natural & sweet Gushing on 1 of them !!! just saying, “wow, i think you’re so cute”

    & now i’m off to a Happy Hour to continue my never-ending Practice lol… will report back as to how my evening of girl-flirting works out….

    lean back, listen, share truth in feeling messages : )

  170.  #170Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 2:54 pm

    Daria –

    I will send flowers with a love note to myself and sign “L”. “L” for Lizka… 🙂

    L is not the first letter of my first name, so it’s confusing for others, but still the truth since “L” is the siren me 🙂

  171.  #171Ella on February 17, 2012 at 2:55 pm


    “Ok breath Lizka… ATW is not Ironman… Give him a chance. You can trust him”

    No, but you can trust you!

    Esp if you keep CD-ing.

    I feel for you because I know how it can be to have such a triggering situation from the past which comes right back and can trigger us in the present.

    It can be very powerful and needs lots of gentle healing and love from you and the men you date…

    That must have felt awful to be in that situation with Ironman.

    Thank Goodness you are a Brilliant Siren now and can love and CD date till its all better and you feel better and more relaxed!

    I don’t know about this one man, but I feel sure that you will get the love and relationship that you want.


  172.  #172Daria on February 17, 2012 at 2:56 pm


    did u see the “accidental”hey mike i made it home safely text


  173.  #173Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    Starla that was priceless, thank you for a good laugh (or cry). Frankly, have not done that but had my doubts at times 🙂

  174.  #174Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    Daria, I did not realize what was the hey Mike text doing there until your post lol

  175.  #175Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 2:59 pm

    Lizka – Rori talks about the man experiencing you as different. Your leaning back will cause him to think about you. Even if it wonder why you are not throwing yourself at him like the other girls. This will be mysterious to him and raise your attraction factor.

  176.  #176Starla on February 17, 2012 at 2:59 pm

    171 Daria yeah she accidentally”””” texts her girl friend about the date too.

    i’ve actually been on the receiving end of this from a guy. but i’ve so done this. it felt right at the time. never again though!!!!

  177.  #177Butterfly Wings on February 17, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    Good chatting to you on FB this morning Lizka. I hope you’re able to take your mind off things tonight! xxx

  178.  #178Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 3:00 pm


    Thank you, please take your time, no pressure about the scripts! Not sure I found the one for Brenda, unless its the one saying how good it feels to be connected and not good to be disconnected LOL. Sorry, such a simple idea but apparently works! 🙂

  179.  #179Starla on February 17, 2012 at 3:01 pm

    aaaaaaand there’s another one, texting me to ask me out.

  180.  #180Luzydel on February 17, 2012 at 3:02 pm

  181.  #181Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    His boy has a bday tomorrow. My intention is to ignore and say happy bday in person next time I see him. Hope it’s not impolite?

  182.  #182Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    Also Lizka why would I want a man that only I want? I would wonder if there was something wrong with one of us.

    If everyone is flocking around him and he is choosing me, how powerful and esteem boosting is that.

  183.  #183FlowerChild77 on February 17, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    THANK YOU to whoever posted the link with the list of Feeling Words <3

    I looked, but couldn't find the post/poster.

    I'm going to print this out and keep it with me and up somewhere in the house where I'll see it a lot.

  184.  #184Starla on February 17, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    memulo, that’s not impolite. and you shouldn’t be leaning forward really in any way.

  185.  #185Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    “I can’t wait till I have a man in my bed, greeting me with love every morning. And I can’t wait till we’re going to sleep together, and I can’t wait to experience all that love before we fall asleep”

    Gina I don’t know why I am triggered by the “I can’t wait”. I am tweaking it in my mind

    “it would feel amazing to have a man in my bed, greeting me with love every morning. I would feel ecstatic going to sleep together with him, and it would be fabulous to experience all that love coming at me before we fall asleep.”

  186.  #186Starla on February 17, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    wow Kenya is coming on soooo strong (not really, he’s just not giving up very easily even though i’m all booked up), it actually makes me a little angry. what’s up with that?

  187.  #187Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 3:09 pm

    Remember when you lean forward you end up pushing the man out of the relationship bubble. There is only so much space in the bubble.

  188.  #188Silver-Tongued Siren on February 17, 2012 at 3:10 pm

    136 Butterfly wings!

    WOW, that took me completely by surprise!!! How fantastic! he wants to go to the party with you and I LOVE how he asked you to update your rlsp status!!! Amazing!!!! You’re doing something right!!! <3<3<3

    137 – Daria – Yesss I know I didn't even think of it in the moment – went straight to explaining instead of FM! Thanks for the reminder!!!

    148 -lk – i would like to see other siren's responses to this.. I am not sure. I have handled it in a few different ways… that haven't been very effective I think..

    155 Daria –
    "Lk – rori has a tool where you imagine the man in front of you, you leaning back, him leaning in, all his energy and attention on you, smiling…

    then you add in other women around, walking past , thrugh yall, maybe to him talking to him… and practice still feeling HIS ENERGY FULLY COMING towards you

    then add in other men aroudn too, and still feel his energy fully coming towards you


    ive had some times when using this tool this felt like a real Powerful shift for me"

    Thanks for this tool – I have a hard time visualizing these practices esp with little baby-free time….. but this sounds like a great idea.

    169 LK –
    wow, girly flirting.. i should practice this..hmm.

    I am a bit mad that i saw the other night that a girl connected to me (but not "friends exactly) messaged my man "oh you didn't get my number the other night did you? well you should have, it's **********. I loved rubbing your head the other night, etc… I think she said "hope to see you again soon" (or maybe he did, not sure). then she said "oh you sexy sexy man!"..ugh i feel disgusted and angry.

    and well, he is a sexy sexy man. I just am angry that my community doesn't support and respect FAMILY more. 🙁 sick of all this partying. they don't care about anything! they don't even THINK about our kids or me. even worse when they do and just don't care anyway.

    ok cut!

    166 Daria! I want flowers too! I considered this the other day. lol.. I wish I had $ to deliver flowers to myself! expensive! I could even buy them and a vase and note for myself, but ..still more $ than I really have. Once or twice wouldn't hurt though, eh? 😀 nothing like making them wonder and making me feel good.

    168 Dominique – I've never heard of David Deida. Now I am curious to look him up later!

    Okay! In the middle of cleaning house! kitchen done, vaccuming in progress, washing sofa cushion covers (cross your fingers they stay the normal size – we've washed them once – it's an expensive couch – MILW would kill me! – butr baby has written in ballpoint pen all over them so I have to wash them.)

    be back later!

  189.  #189Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 3:10 pm

    Starla – annoyed or angry?

    What is there to be angry about when you stick by your boundaries?

  190.  #190Starla on February 17, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    FW, I honestly have no idea. but yeah i feel angry.

    or maybe i feel sexually frustrated.

    i’m not sure??????

  191.  #191Silver-Tongued Siren on February 17, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    185 FW:
    “Gina I don’t know why I am triggered by the “I can’t wait”. I am tweaking it in my mind

    “it would feel amazing to have a man in my bed, greeting me with love every morning. I would feel ecstatic going to sleep together with him, and it would be fabulous to experience all that love coming at me before we fall asleep.””

    FW – yes.. i was also.. and I still have trouble with “it would” because it implies you don’t yet have it.

    … that is why I always use “I intend” in my affirmations, …
    but… that doesn’t feel as good here..
    .. that is why I have been thinking about focusing with gratitude on what I DO have, which then hopefully will naturally send more of what I want my way.
    And maybe envisioning the situation you are “wanting” in your mind and how it feels..

  192.  #192Silver-Tongued Siren on February 17, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    what does everyone think about this?

  193.  #193Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 3:17 pm

    Butterfly Wings he must find your anger sexy. I would immortalize this moment in my cells by really sinking into the feeling I had last night at the point when I had made up my mind that I was ready to walk. It is possible that he felt your vibe or smelled what was going on as your confidence level soaring. You might need this again in the future.

  194.  #194Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    Yes no intention to lean fwd whatsoever

  195.  #195Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 3:19 pm

    I agree STS. It feels vibrationally higher to me.

  196.  #196Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 3:20 pm

    I always wonder what the he!@!ll is sexually frustrated? Does it mean horny? Or that the man cannot satisfy?

    Then again should we be depending on a man to satisfy?

  197.  #197Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    FW thank you this is cheerful!

    “If everyone is flocking around him and he is choosing me, how powerful and esteem boosting is that.”

    The only thing I can’t help myself thinking right now is that he haven’t choose ME yet… We’re still just “started” dating again after 6 months break up…

    He might be afraid that I go back as the crazy unsireny girl I use to be and choose another “new” girl who feels more “refreshing”…


  198.  #198Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    Starla when was the last time you did the vampire scream?

  199.  #199Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    So Lizka you use your mind to visualize what you want and you act “as if”.

  200.  #200Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 3:24 pm

    OMG the blog is going so fast tonight!! Sorry If I forget anyone who is replying to me!!!

    Ella – The situation with Ironman was not that bad in that time because I was SO madly in love with him and I just didn’t matter… But I think unconsciously it hurt me and I feel it now…

    I will explain the whole situation about Ironman very soon…

  201.  #201Luzydel on February 17, 2012 at 3:24 pm

    I guess what bothers me is to think that I have failed on finding and or keeping a relationship because I did or did not do something. I would like to think that it wasn’t my time. I am no more or less inviting that any woman who doesn’t read this blog and they have men who are by their feet. These women are bossy, demanding and not Feminine, they lean forward, call the guy all the time, use the wrong words, but still they have serious relationships. Perhaps it just a timing issue? nothing to do with using tools, FMs etc?

  202.  #202Starla on February 17, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    FW, a couple weeks ago. I’m feeling a big heavy concrete ball of SOMETHING in me. A siren suggested off-blog that I listen to heavy metal and break sh*t. I think I will.

  203.  #203Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    BTW Starla it just occured to me. Could Kenya possibly be turning the waterwheel of love towards you? Or is it just you so focussed on pushing it away because you want the attention from one particular man? Is the Universe sending too much love your way? Is it time to reset your themostat?

  204.  #204Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    FW 198

    Good idea, I’ll try this

    So I will start acting as if he was stepping up 10x more than he already does. And as if I was the only woman he could see. And as if I was the air he needed to breath. As if he was thinking of me every second of the day…

    That feels great. Thank yoU!

  205.  #205Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    FW 198

    Good idea, I’ll try this

    So I will start acting as if he was stepping up 10x more than he already does. And as if I was the only woman he could see. And as if I was the air he needed to breath. As if he was thinking of me every second of the day…

    That feels great. Thank yoU!

  206.  #206Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 3:30 pm

    You something Luzydel I feel drained by your energy. It seems you are focussing on the wrong things. Also how do you know what happens behind closed doors with these women? How do you know their relationships are successful?

    I have a friend coming over tonight to borrow Reconnect. The last time I saw her with her husband they seemed happily married posing for pictures. But somehow I picked up something in her vibe so I texted to say happy valentine’s on Tuesday and was told that she was not feeling it because she is talked down to and feel unwanted. Don’t ever assume anything about any relationship is what I have learned, people are good at faking. Believe what you want, dismiss me if you wish but it seems to me like you are doing yourself a disservice. Most of the times I experience you as being in your head rather than your heart and have mentioned in the past that I feel I disconnected from you.

  207.  #207Starla on February 17, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    202 FW, thank you for the thought provokers. I think this is about my thermostat for receiving and bliss. I couldn’t even handle all the intense verbal love CF was offering me without needing something different. I feel guilty. I am feeling like this is just as much my fault, now. I’m just pushing CF away like this.

    At the same time, going from anger to guilt to anger to guilt is pretty standard emotional dysregulation pattern. Not sure what to do here to make it “right”.

  208.  #208Ella on February 17, 2012 at 3:45 pm

    Re 162


    Please tell me they are not real text.

    I was just cringing in my seat saying NOOOOOO! Please put down the phone.

  209.  #209Susan on February 17, 2012 at 3:46 pm

    Although this is funny… It really isn’t. This link shows a set of texts a guy got after ONE date with a girl. Let’s NOT bee this girl!

  210.  #210Susan on February 17, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    Oh! Starla, you already posted that! My bad!

  211.  #211Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    BTW Starla I am having a hard time understanding why you say 1 hour is long distance. I do that to work everyday because of traffic and when there is no traffic it is about 40-45 minutes. So I am estimating that he is moving a little over 40 miles away. Do you mind telling me why you see it as long distance?

  212.  #212Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 3:49 pm

    For guilt Rori recommends forgiving yourself in Reconnect. Just put your hand on your heart and send forgiveness to yourself “you are your own healer”.

  213.  #213Luzydel on February 17, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    FW, we have women here for over a year; using all the tools, going around circles, leaning forward, backward, feeling messages, Cding, and they come back to the same and do the same thing over again. I guess I am triggering you, (good) your somber attitude annoys me also (not picking on you, just expressing). You get things out of readings, books, articles. It seems so robotic to me.

    I love my mess inside of me, I am feeling an internal revolution right now, and I am giving myself permission to question, NOT to accept things before looking at them from different angles.

    I am not going to apologize for how I make myself feel better!!!

  214.  #214siren song on February 17, 2012 at 3:53 pm

    Oh gosh, that woman’s texts make me feel uncomfortable.

  215.  #215Starla on February 17, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    it’s an hour up the highway. In a different area code. :'(

  216.  #216Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    Don’t apologize Luzydel.

  217.  #217Ella on February 17, 2012 at 3:58 pm


    I just noticed icky insecurity feelings coming up in me.

    MWC earlier texted that he could do with a hug… and then that he was feeling lonely and missing me and can’t wait to see me.

    He hasn’t planned a time to meet though.

    I reckon he is assuming that I will go home with him after work tomorrow night.

    Which I would like to do cus I want to be near him and be cuddled.

    But, I feel worried of feeling taken for granted if I say yes to last minute invites to stay over that are not dates.

    So then he may ask to see me the next night.

    But that will still be last minute, and so it means that I will have to wait ages to see him and be cuddled again.



    Finding it hard to balance going with the flow with having boundaries and being of high value.

    And also that ‘friend’ who he has, that smoozes all over him, and who ws so off with me when I met her, keeps popping into my head. Uninvited.

    I mean I have no doubt I am no 1. And that he wouldn’t prioritise her, and I still feel weird about it when I have not seen him for a few days.


    I have seen other women on here posting about similar things and I know the asnwer is to take bigger picture thinking.

    To vote for me.

    Sirens need not worry our pretty heads about such minor trivia!


  218.  #218Starla on February 17, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    FW reminds me of the Siren Brett in Hemingway’s “The Sun Also Rises”
    The lovely Lady Ashley:D

  219.  #219Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    I feel like spamming the blog with my love story with Ironman.

    Not because I want to “inform” you about it, but mostly for me. Because it’s gonna help to shift my vibe, because I always feel better when I think of him.

    VERY IMPORTANT: Please do not judge anything you will read here. This was waaaay before I was a diren and YES I did a lot of mistake. If it was today, things would be so different but I always had a feeling that he will be back one day and I am not feeling in a rush. I have all the time in the world…

    Since the second time I saw Ironman, I tought he was the man of my life. It’s the craziest love story I have ever live and I remember every detail of it, every date of break up, flower sent, every reconciliation, every word, everything!

    Yes it ended up badly and dramatically, but when I think of it, I feel good.

    So if I write this here tonight, it’s really for me. If you want to comment, feel free to do it and I’ll be happy to talk about it, but I’m not writing our story to get feedback or anything. Just to shift my vibe after this afternoon event.


    So we met on June 12th 2007.

    With Bestfriend #1, I was doing a casting for a very popular reality show we are having here. It’s a dating show. There is 6 girls and 6 guys and they do romantic activities and eliminate each other in order to make one couple. And they win a house, 2 cars, furniture, a trip, etc.

    I met him while I was filling the papers for the casting. He said “hey, do you know what date it is today?”. He was also with his best friend.

    In the waiting room, he came to sit next to me. While we were filling up the questionnaire, he was looking at my answers and we realised we had so many similar answer and were both feeling amazed by it. I went to smoke outside with Bestfriend #1 and I let him my phone number so he can call me if it was my time to go to the casting.

    So bla bla bla casting bla bla bla going back home…

    The SAME night, me and my girlfriend have nothing to do and want to go downtown for drinks. We decide to invite Ironman and his sexy friend with us. Answer: “Sorry, there’s the 3 day rules before contacting a girl”. Wuuuut? I got so turned off!!

    So I immediately stop thinking of him and thought, whatever, his loss.

    But TWO days later I got a message from him inviting me for a date… hehe 3 days rule my @ss !!

    So first date goes ok, I’m not extremely impressed by him, and he kissed me way too early. We were not there yet. (He told me later that he indeed felt he kissed me too early but that he was so turned on by me!!). He then invited me to go watch a movie to his place. I said no because I don’t want to be in a situation where I would have to feel pressured to sleep with him. he convinced me to go anyway and was very sweet and didn’t try anything.

    He felt asleep during the movie so I got all my things and got ready to leave. And this is EXACTLY when I new he was the One and I would be soon in love with him (yeah I know it was early, but I didn’t mistaken). He woke up all cute and a little lost and ask “so when am I gonna see you again?” oh it was soooo cute and awww 🙂

    Second date, he met me on the mountain and broke all my dreams. Lol. He was super into me, we were already having a very intense relationship, telling each other how surprised we were to have find each other, like if we were soulmates…

    And he told me about The Game.

    For those who don’t know what The Game is, it’s a book (by Neil Strauss), a coaching program for men to learn how to “pick up” women. It’s interesting and awful at the same time. And it’s apparently working very well. They have all a community of Pick Up Artists, with blogs, seminars, coaching, just like us…

    And he told me he was really into it and wanted to become a coach… So he couldn’t have a committed and exclusive relationship. Because he wanted to experiment on as many women as possible. He wanted to flirt, and not have to stop before kissing… he wanted to have as many women as possible in his bed. He told me. Just like that. Very honnest. I would not be his girl friend. Ever. He was believing in MLTR (Multiple long term relationship). he needed to experiment in order to become a good coach later…

    He asked me if it was ok with him. I said I didn’t know. He said he would always tell me the truth. If I ever asked something, he would be honnest and if I didn’t want to know, I just had to not ask. So that’s how I learned to not ask questions…

    That night, I slept with him just because I was so attracted to him but I knew I would never see him again… because I did not wanted to be in this weird relationship. I was already falling in love with him…

    So I didn’t call him. He came back to me… He called me and asked to see me again. But thing haven’t changed for him, but with his “manipulation”, he got me to change my mind about him.

    Summer 2007 was the best summer of my life. We were together almost every day. Doing activities just like couples do. Festivals, and drinks on patios, and camping, and yes yes… very depraved sex… lol

    I knew I was the only one he was seeing. it was impossible he was seeing someone else because he was spending all his time with ME! I was really happy with the situation and not really worried about other girls…

    (will post in another post because it’s gonna be a too long post)

  220.  #220Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    Starla I guess it depends on where you live. Here in New York that is nothing. It might be that you are looking at it through the lens of you not having a car. Different area code/zip code is every day life to me. Only the snow is mainly a hindrance.

    You are being a girl wanting him by your side all the time. Remember absence makes the heart grow fonder. He also made some promises and I guess is hoping that you trust him to come through on it. Remember if you end up together for the long haul you will hit some serious bumps in the road later on. This will show him how you will handle those. I also encourage you to show yourself how you will handle those.

    I am not saying to give up on your boundaries. Just wondering if your frame around this could change in any way?

  221.  #221Starla on February 17, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    FW, I get what you’re saying. I’m actually from NYC/Long Beach, LI originally.

    I will be reframing for sure. And also not getting complacent about focusing on me and CDing

    Kenya is going to try again to escort me home.

  222.  #222Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 4:05 pm

    The lovely lady Ashley. That feels like music to my ears. A real royal Goddess.

    Makes me feel like I can exude feminine grace. Thank you thank you thank you.

  223.  #223Starla on February 17, 2012 at 4:06 pm

    But to be clear, I live in the Rocky Mountain West now.

  224.  #224Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    Long Beach. Hey that’s not too far from me. As a matter of fact the beach over there is one of my favorite places for dates during the summer time. I love to sit by the water at nights. It feels so peaceful to me just listening to the water.

  225.  #225Ella on February 17, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    Need to CD but there is no one left in my rotation anymore…

    Partly my fault and mainly them being flaky!


    How do I re-fill my rotation super quick?

    Or, how do I stay centred and calm in the meanwhile?

  226.  #226Starla on February 17, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    🙂 I miss the boardwalk there. I took a boyfriend back there once, to visit my uncle and his family, but my boyfriend kept putting his finger in my butt crack at the dinner table, and it was really annoying.

    Great story, huh?

  227.  #227Jilly on February 17, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    oh my hell..that is hilarious…yet sad :)….it happens :/

    I am CDing my roommie…we are going to see The Vow tonight 🙂

    I am liking the question of staying open and warm yet mysterious (keeping them on their toes) at the same time….

  228.  #228Starla on February 17, 2012 at 4:11 pm

    Jilly, i feel excited about your plans tonight. I think I am going to take myself to see the vow this weekend. you have inspired me!

  229.  #229Ella on February 17, 2012 at 4:15 pm


    I just replied to a few messages.

    I will just focus on lovely me anyway.

  230.  #230Jilly on February 17, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    Thanks Starla 🙂 I feel excited to see it…and to feel girly and sappy

  231.  #231Starla on February 17, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    awww. ella, you are so lovely! enjoy!

  232.  #232Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    Oh BTW, when he told me about MLTR, he told me I HAD to do it too or it wouldn’t be fair. So he encouraged me to date other guys.

    But things switched when something happened when one night he planned something with me and by mistake, with another girl… and he finaly went with the other girl.

    I was so mad and I cried my life and told him I didn’t want to see me.

    And the next morning, I received flowers. When I saw him later that day, he told me he was “afraid for us”…

    Now that I think of it, he was probably really in love with me at that time…

    but things started to get complicated when I said for the 1st time I had enough of that and I stopped everything…

    After 1 week he called me back, and yes, I accepted to came back even if he was not ready to give up on his MLTR…

    I was working in a bar at that time as a bartender. A very big club we have downtown in my city. DjCD was working there too, as a DJ, but I was not dating him yet.

    So in November, Ironman was looking for a job and I told him he could do marketing for the club and I introduced him to my boss… So DjCD, Ironman and I were working every night together in the same room. So good memories.

    Begining of December, Ironman’s best friend came to the bar and started talking to me about Iromnan and how I should do and we didn’t had time to talk too much since I was working but he gave me his phone number and said he wanted to go for a coffee and talk. So we went for that coffee and he told me he wanted the things to work with Ironman and me and he told me to “lean back” and play hard to get. I should have listen. Ironman’s best friend was like my Rori now that I think of it. He tried to help me and I didn’t listened to him. Months later, Ironman admitted that he asked his friend to talk to me because he wanted to commit and to go exclusive and make plans for the future to me but he needed a “challenge”. What a player…

    End December 2007, for the 1st time, I agreed on having a real other date. I started seeing DjCD…

    So every night, I was going to work, Friday leaving with one, Saturday leaving with the other. And Ironman knew about DjCD, but not the other way around… but I think he had some doubt…

    In the next months, we were breaking up, and coming back, and breaking up. He was seeing many other girls and I knew it and didn’t like it.

    Anyway, things were doing great with DjCD. I had a very glamourous life. He is famous in his community and we were always VIP everywhere, going out a lot, drinking a lot, going in raves, ok and some drugs too… But I had the time of my life and didn’t give too much of a sh*t about Ironman.

    Everytime he had a new girl, he was leaving me behind…

  233.  #233Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    Lol I don’t know why I gave so many details about it…

    lol I was so in my head and rethinking about my love story…

    It was a good exercice though. I was so focus on thinking and writting the details about my relationship with Ironman that I completely forgot to think of ATW.

    Nice! 🙂

    I got bored of writing about him though. So I might continue only another day when I feel down again and I feel the need to switch my vibe. I’m good for tonight.

    Sorry if I annoyed you with my old stories…

  234.  #234Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 4:29 pm

    Hey my anti-panic plan is coming in a few minutes.

    I don’t care about him (he has a gf) but it’s gonna help to keep focus on myself. Will even maybe practice some tools on him… will practice feeling messages!! Yay!!!

    And while I was writting my story about Ironman, an old guy friend talked to me on Facebook and we agreed to go out tomorrow!!

    So that’s it. I’m booked for the weekend. It’s too late for ATW!!

    I only have Sunday night free, but he has to book me 24 hours in advance (so tomorrow night maximum) if he wants to see me I decided.

    Cool, that feels good!

    Tonight: Wine and computer fixing with this computer guy (will call him FakeCD because he’s not a real CD)

    Tomorrow morning: Run

    Tomorrow afternoon: Hairdresser

    Later in the afternoon: Cleaning up the house

    Tomorrow night: Drinks out with my guy friend

    Sunday morning: Being hangover (lol)

    Sunday afternoon: 10K run

    Sunday night: still open. You have until Saturday to book in. If not I’ll make myself a feet treatment and pedicure.


  235.  #235Ella on February 17, 2012 at 4:38 pm

    lk and Daria

    Women flirting with my man is a big deal for me too!

    I feel very triggered and jealous.

    I like the idea of flirting with the woman, as long as she doesn’t take it as an invitation to get involved in our space…

    I don’t know.

    I don’t want to shut down around every woman I feel threatened by, esp when they are friends from before, but I don’t want to tolerate feeling threatened either.

    I guess expressing in a non blaming way is always a good option.

    I would perhaps make a boundary if a man wants to commit to me, no other women or women friends unless they are mutual friends who I feel safe and included with too…

    In the meantimes I can’t control what any one else does, although I can work on my reaction to it.

    So far I feel pretty good about my responses to these type of situations, although they could still get to me.

    I intend to choose not to let them.

    I intend to think big.

    I am the air he needs to breath anyhow.

  236.  #236Luzydel on February 17, 2012 at 4:41 pm

    You know FW, It is not the tools, but the people who use it. I guess we (women) are the ones that do not Really want a relationship; the ones afraid of intimacy.

    I am not afraid of what is waking up inside of me, it is a turmoil of feelings, confusion, doubt, self destruction, envy, jealousy and deep inside of all that lies the desire to LOVE . I am loving each of of these feelings, my feelings are like a Pandora box right now. They are confusing me, pushing me all over, I am just here experiencing them. Some people are “external” they find themselves through other people, I find myself when I experience my emotions, I dissect them, question them, feel them, then A new me comes out of it. That is why I call it internal revolution; I feel it, something in me is changing and something in me is resisting. There is a war inside of me….

  237.  #237Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 4:44 pm

    “I would perhaps make a boundary if a man wants to commit to me, no other women or women friends unless they are mutual friends who I feel safe and included with too…”

    Yes I will have to think of that too if things get serious with ATW…

    80% of his friends are women and it was a big issue when we were together… If one day he wants a exclusive and committed relationship, I will have to put a boundary… Maybe only women friends I have meet and trust?

    That feels like controlling…

    We’ll see… I’m not there yet…

  238.  #238Jilly on February 17, 2012 at 4:49 pm

    well…so my friend’s boyfriend…who is friends with Rugby Man…I guess always asks about MY love life…

    then she mentioned that she thinks he (her boyfriend) has a crush on me…

    well…what do I do with that info?

  239.  #239Jilly on February 17, 2012 at 4:53 pm

    this is one of my really good friends btw…

    it feels weird to hear that…but I feel flattered…and “on guard”?

    feels like..don’t be you Jilly…be hard and cold around them next time…

    I feel a little weird posting this…but I’m going to

  240.  #240Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 4:54 pm

    No Lizka that is not a boundaries. Boundaries are rules you make for yourself. What you are doing there is dictating who he can have for friends. One of my cds was in a relationship last year with a woman who tried that. He dropped a very close friend because of her. The next thing he knew she became jealous of every woman he spoke to. You could feel her coldness when in her presence because of how closed her heart became. When he finally asked her what was going on she told him they were not compatible. He took that as his cue to exit and she has stalked him since. When he talks of her he says that was one of the first red flags he noticed with her which told him she was insecure and jealous. She was pushing to get married after a couple months of dating and that is the reason he said he stalled and told her he was not ready as yet. He is now happy that he did.

  241.  #241Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 5:00 pm

    Oh I see it was actually Ella’s suggestion as a boundary. Please remember that most men had lives before they met us. Are we suggesting that their lives with their friends no longer matter now that they have met us?

    Are we competing with their friends and giving these guys an ultimatum to choose?

  242.  #242Ella on February 17, 2012 at 5:03 pm

    FW re 239

    Hmmm, I feel confused.

    I understand that Rori has an agreement with her husband that no female friends… unless they are mutual friends…

    I do find this issue difficult.

    I want to be open and warm to women friends of my men, and I often feel tense and ‘cold’.

    So not really sure how to overcome this.

  243.  #243Ella on February 17, 2012 at 5:05 pm

    No FW.


    I am not really suggesting anything much.

    Except that if a man is offering me commitment… maybe for me feeling no 1 would entail no female friends unless they are mutual friends.

    If 2 people are married I see this as quite reasonable.

    However if you are dating then its very different.

    However I can still express how I feel and either accept or reject.

  244.  #244Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 5:06 pm

    Jilly –

    Maybe he asked about your love life because Rugby Man asks him to dig about it?

  245.  #245Ella on February 17, 2012 at 5:06 pm

    For me a boundary very much IS that I won’t commit to someone unless I feel no 1.

  246.  #246Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 5:08 pm

    I have not yet encountered that in Rori’s writings but I am wondering if it is meant for new friends. I would be surprised if it were childhood friends. I imagine that contact would be reduced but I can’t imagine that a man would eliminate a lifelong friend because of his marriage.

    As a matter of fact I had one friend who dropped a long time girlfriend because of the same type of thing and married someone else. She did not want to see him talking to anyone else including me. She was jealous of everyone. His wife accepts him as he is, with all his friends.

  247.  #247Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 5:10 pm

    Yeah I’m confused about it too. When I was with ATW, he was always going out with girls and never invite me and when I am with him (even now), he has girls texting him all the time…

    Shouldn’t I put a boundary about this? Not controlling, but express how I feel at least…

    not now of course because he did say he want to go exclusive and committed, but later…

  248.  #248Ella on February 17, 2012 at 5:14 pm


    Yes… that is where the part about no women friends unless they are mutual friends and/or friends who we feel safe about comes in….

    See, even if it were a lifelong friend a man can do certain things to make his woman feel safe in this scenario, like making sure she is always included and invited and does not feel left out.

    He can make sure that she remains the main focus of his energy so that she feels safe.

    A good man will do this.

    My man will do this.

    One thing I like about MWC recently is he tends to want to spend all his time focused on me. Rather than talking to other women friends.

    This is his choice.

    It feels good.

    If a woman is important in his life and he wants to be with me, he will make sure I feel safe around that woman and know I always come 1st.

    Of course we Sirens have a big part to play too, to make sure we do all we can to feel safe and secure in ourselves and deal with our insecure and jealous feelings should they come up…

    This is the part I am dealing with.

  249.  #249Daria on February 17, 2012 at 5:16 pm

    Rori mentioned that she would not feel comfortable with her husband having any women friends that are not also mutual friedns with her.

  250.  #250Ella on February 17, 2012 at 5:17 pm

    FW sorry for the ‘Grrrr’.

    I was feeling misunderstood and frustrated just for a minute there.

  251.  #251Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 5:17 pm

    My man will do this too Ella! 🙂

  252.  #252Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    No problem Ellla. Thanks for the explanation. I am going to bring this up with a couple of guys.

  253.  #253Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 5:21 pm

    For exemple, if I agree to commit with a man (lets say ATW), I will definitely introduce him to my male friends amd invite him if I go out with them (not always but often) amd make him feel safe around them.

    I want my man to do the same. If ATW is not open to introduce me to his women friends and sometimes invite me to go out with them and make me feel safe around them, I will not go exclusive and committ to them.

    That’s my new boundary.

  254.  #254Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 5:22 pm

    Just have to find a way to express it in feeling message for when the time comes…

    Anyway, it’s not for now… He haven’t call me again for a second night in a row… 🙁

  255.  #255Turquoise on February 17, 2012 at 5:23 pm

    Sirens, this is going to be a long one, feel free to skip, just processing a conversation with my ex to see where I practiced tools and where I could do better.

    My ex is supposed to be coming up… then he said he’d wait and come tomorrow morning because he was really tired. Then he said, his mom was trying to talk him out of coming because he’d been sick. But, he said he’d probably still come, would call me later. Then he calls and says his mom said we’re supposed to get all this snow. I was like really? I hadn’t heard that. Good for skiing. HE said, yeah, but not since I don’t have my SUV. He said he’d double check the weather. Girls and I went out to eat, came back, I checked the weather. Not even a flurry? So, I called him back and told him… he was surprised. So, I told him if he didn’t feel like coming in, it’s ok. Would feel nice to see him, but if it didn’t work out, weekend after next was open. He said it’s the drive, but he’d look at the weather again. (Like I’m lying we aren’t getting anything) So, then I asked him if there was something else wrong, or some other reason his mom didn’t think it was a good weekend. He said he pulled a ham string, hadn’t eaten since breakfast, seemed crabby. I didn’t say anything, just waited. Then he said, I’ll probably come, I was planning on it til mom said anything. Again, I waited. Then he says, but even if I don’t come, mom said she’d come get the girls for the party. (They are supposed to go skating and have a sleepover with their cousin), I said, well, they can go for the skating, but I don’t feel comfortable with the sleepover. He says, well what do you mean, said it was fine yesterday? (kinda irritated) and I calmly said that I feel nervous since his sister and I still aren’t talking, and he wouldn’t be there. He said he wouldn’t be sleeping there anyways, and I said, I know.. but you’d be a few min. away at your moms or something. I said that I feel a little uncomfortable having them there by themselves. He said he knew. (big blowup happened at Thanksgiving with his sister saying a bunch of stuff to our girls that we should have gotten a cheaper house) Then he said, well… you said you had plans. If you want to cancel those and go pick them up, then that’s up to you.

    And that is what it was. I had plans. He got a twinge of jealousy, and now his plans to come home were all up in the air, I said, well, my plans were to make it up to Shannon for bailing on her birthday because I didn’t have a sitter. If I have to cancel that so the girls can come home, I will. I can reschedule. Then he says, I’ll probably be home. I’m going to get something to eat, look at the weather and I’ll call you back.

    I’m sure I could have gotten a few more feeling messages in there. But, I did pause twice and let him talk. I did share that it would feel nice to have him home. I did ask if there was more going on. I did share my uneasy feelings about the girls being with his family alone.

    I did explain about my plans… but I actually told him that I had plans with S already, so guess he just wasn’t listening, just heard I had plans.

    I didn’t plead or try to persuade, like the girls really miss you…

    I did stay calm. No raising my voice.

    So, probably a lot better than our normal convo. when I feel irritated that his mom is trying to control things or sounds like he is making excuses.

    Anyone have any comments?

  256.  #256FlowerChild77 on February 17, 2012 at 5:34 pm

    Brenda….are you ok? Just checking. Keep us posted.

  257.  #257Turquoise on February 17, 2012 at 5:39 pm

    Brenda said on FB, she might leave the blog. 🙁 Hope she comes back!

  258.  #258Ella on February 17, 2012 at 5:41 pm

    I want to move my hips like Shakira does!!!

    Night Sirens.

  259.  #259FlowerChild77 on February 17, 2012 at 5:46 pm

    Turquoise….I’m only a baby Siren, but I think you did great. While I was reading your post I could feel myself getting ‘triggered’ (putting myself in your place) during the part where you were talking about the girls going to your SIL’s to sleep over.

    Also, I know how much it means to you when he comes and how good you feel in his presence—I think it was great the way you leaned back about his plans–accepting the uncertainty. (That was always something I had a real problem with.)

    Your daughters are beautiful—and you are too.

  260.  #260Femininewoman on February 17, 2012 at 5:51 pm

    Starla I love this

    “2915: Rori Raye says:
    Kate – You have to TALK to him! You have to start expressing yourself! Get help here on how to do it – this is total “Love Scripts.” What did you say when he asked you if anything was wrong and if you’re mad? “I’m feeling lonely and missing the romance. I’ve discovered that unless I initiate things, nothing happens, and I miss all our closeness, but don’t want to be the initiator. I’m just a girl here and it doesn’t feel romantic to me to always initiate affection and sex. What do you think we can do so we’re both happy?”

  261.  #261Memulo on February 17, 2012 at 5:57 pm

    What happened with Brenda?

  262.  #262Turquoise on February 17, 2012 at 6:01 pm

    Thanks Flowechild. I appreciate that!

    It is a big improvement for me. Before it would have gone more like this…

    “I don’t know what your mom is talking about, we aren’t getting snow. She’s just trying to control your schedule and when you come home and I’m sick of it. If you don’t want to be here, then fine… don’t come. We’ll make other plans. Why do you always have to change your plans? Why can’t for once, things just work out? It’s not fair that I have to rearrange my schedule to fit yours. ” I’m tired of paying for a babysitter when you cancel your plans, yet you have all this free time to do whatever you want.”

    Yeah, lol… I have come a LONG way. I can feel the tension in my words, just writing them. We’d always get in a big fight, and most of the time he’d end up coming anyways, so the fights were such a waste of energy and feeling.

    I do feel good that I didn’t raise my voice or get overly upset. I just calmly said how I was feeling and listened to what he shared. He sounded crabby though, so kinda glad he’s not coming in tonight. I feel fine now,… but would be harder to stay in my good mood if he were here being crabby or snapping at the girls.

    Yeah me. Yeah for progress and not trying to control an outcome!

  263.  #263FlowerChild77 on February 17, 2012 at 6:03 pm

    How do I change my user name on here? Do I just sign up with the new name?

  264.  #264Silver-Tongued Siren on February 17, 2012 at 6:08 pm


    well.. no email response from BF – he hasn’t said anything to me since valentine’s morning “happy valentines day! I wish I was there!”

    — i was glad to hear that, but i felt disappointed – that he didn’t do anything for vday. no special dinner, no flowers, no card, no nothing, not even a mention of it. since he was here visiting this last wknd he could have done sommeething. come on. I have been seeing you for years (regardless of how sporadic visits were), and have your CHILD, who i am taking care of on my own…….

    nope nothing. all wk nothing. I mean the least he could have done is call me in the evening of valentine’s day. (but maybe i was busy and had plans, anyway ;D he could’ve sent FLOWERS. but no. If I followed “the rules” I would be saying “next” because he did nothing romantic for me for valentine’s day. I wonder how I change this? will definitely have to share feeling messages about what I would like next time Vday comes around.

    i was actually really down on vday due to MILW leaving to go out with some girl after asking for a massage, having a bad feeling convo about our rlsp, and not responding to my texts til the next day.

    anyway – BF.
    no response to the living situation email, but then HE CALLS ME TODAY. out of the blue, since he NEVER calls me. even when we used to be in contact everyday, he NEVER called me – it was always chatting or texting or emailing. I have shared FM a few times about this – and last time I even called him once to show that I am willing to give and bend a little tiny bit in my own boundaries, so that he will mirror me and bend and give a bit on what he does. he does call me once in a great while, it’s just not often. where as I like frequent phone calls. but then again maybe it would just lead to talking too much and having nothing to talk about. whatever it is, people of his astrological sign just don’t like the phone.

    I was in a good, high energy mood when I answered the phone, from all the cleaning and actually getting things DONE today even with babbyyyy<3.

    I could've said "i feel disappointed we didn't do anything for valentine's day" or "I feel …hmm. I don't know what I feel – that he hasn't responded to my email yet..

    I didn't mention the email as it seemed like complaining and i am sure he feels pressure enough just reading it.

    I just accepted his phone call and enjoyed it and shared FM wherever I could. he was driving home from work and talked to me the whole way – 20 to 30 minutes. asked about my week, told me about his, "excruciating, stressful, exhausting, boring"… and dealing with his landlord. and trying to get some issues fixed on his car.
    then i mentioned that I thought he got out of work later, and he said "oh we all got out early today… i was going to stay, but … then a girl came in and said everyone left and I had to go unless i had a key.. and they all make fun of me for actually staying the hours I'm supposed to..and I don't always have work to do while I'm there, but.. it's not like i have anything else to do out in the middle of nowhere" (where he lives).

    …. almost felt like he was *trying* to make me think his week was boring (tho it's often this way it seemed especially today) as though to make me feel like he's not having a great time spending his time with this girl he works with. and oh has sex with.

    who am I kidding, it probably gets awkward working with someone you have seen romantically. I've done it once. That guy was definitely not worth my time either. good riddance.
    actually I've done it a few times but the rest of the time was in a VERY committed relationship- very different.

    I am amused.
    I think I really took him by surprise when we were having sex last weekend and I asked him if he'd been having sex with other people since I wasn't home with him. lol… pretty sure he wasn't expecting that, and in the moment there was nothing he could do besides tell the truth. a man in the throes of passion is a bit out of control. I didn't plan it that way it just worked out like that, but I don't think he could process that enough to do anything but tell the truth.

    I think he was extra thrown for a loop when I didn't get mad… but shared how I felt, then teased him, and playfully let him know I need a man who only wants to be with me!! and he knew this already anyway. (and he is out in the middle of nowhere…and… is maybe even regretting taking this job…well these are the things HE said when I was talking about him having sex with someone else.) but no excuses bebe.

    I am glad I can entertain myself easily… haha. just ate dinner, nursed baby to sleep, hope he stays asleep for a while so I can get more things done!!! going to go continue what I was doing! be back later!

  265.  #265Sun Goddess on February 17, 2012 at 6:14 pm

    This is the first time today that I have been able to feel my feelings. I am so excited and scared at the same time about my trip with LP that begins tomorrow morning bright and early.

    Why am I scared?
    I don’t want my boy energy of that takes over when going on trips to appear and stay in place during the entire trip. I fear that something will go wrong and it will be my fault. (me blaming me, he probably wouldn’t think that)

    I fear that something will be said that will trigger me and I won’t be prepared to deal with it.

    I’m afraid I will be consumed by his attention and will lose my siren ways when I return.

    I’m excited because I have never been on an all adult trip with a man. Weird, I know!

  266.  #266Turquoise on February 17, 2012 at 6:16 pm

    STS, will you be able to give up one of these guys to choose the other? It seems you want them both equally. I feel confused.

  267.  #267Daria on February 17, 2012 at 6:20 pm

    : Joann says:
    Hi Rori,

    I am so happy I found this. I have been divorced now since Nov. 10,2010. I am now seeing this man for a little over two months. I need some advice of what happen between us and be as cut throat as you can. We both are ready to be in a relationship and neither one of us wants to see anyone else. One day he was doing some work for me and I gave him my key to let himself in and out of my apartment. A few weeks had past and I asked for my key back. His reaction to me took me off guard a little. He suddenly wanted to slow things down a bit and we stopped visiting each other as much. We talk on the phone everyday all day except on the weekend. He only wants to visit me during the week. Never on the weekend now. I asked him why is he doing that. Does he have someone else he is seeing? He said no, but with the men these days I think that there maybe a person of interest in his life. His response to me is I think too much. Rori what do you think? How can I get his attention?

    Friday, 17 February 2012 @ 5:11pm

    14: Rori Raye says:
    Joann – you’d be insane not to wonder what he’s doing on the weekends. I’d say “you know –I like you very much and feel great with you, and I don’t really want to be exclusively involved with anyone I don’t see on the weekends…” And then go Circular Date and stop the exclusivity. PERIOD. Love, Rori

    Friday, 17 February 2012 @ 5:27pm

    15: Joann says:
    Thanks Rori for the quick response. I will do just that and let you know how it turns out.

  268.  #268Daria on February 17, 2012 at 6:23 pm

    I wanna give you your space to think, but I feel kinda unimportant and lonely when I’m on a date and the guy I’m with it talking to himself and working out his schedule when we’re together.

  269.  #269Siren Angel on February 17, 2012 at 6:24 pm

    OMG!!! M cancelled the reservation he asked me to make to Lake Placid…
    He’s taking me to NEW-YORK CITY!!!!

  270.  #270Turquoise on February 17, 2012 at 6:26 pm

    Wow Siren Angel!!!! That is awesome! Where do you live?

  271.  #271River Girl on February 17, 2012 at 6:31 pm

    WOW Siren Angel!! How exciting! Gotta love surprises. 🙂

  272.  #272Turquoise on February 17, 2012 at 6:34 pm

    Off to clean sirens, need to catch up from being sick this week so I can enjoy my weekend, no matter what happens. I’ll be back on later.

  273.  #273siren song on February 17, 2012 at 6:35 pm

    right on siren angel!

  274.  #274FlowerChild77 on February 17, 2012 at 6:37 pm

    That’s great! Enjoy yourself and don’t worry so much about doing/saying something wrong <3 We'll all be waiting to hear about it when you get back.

  275.  #275Starla on February 17, 2012 at 6:45 pm

    i am cycling between guilt and anger re: CF. Interesting pattern

    i wish i could go back in time and just be appreciative of the tremendous amount of love he WAS offering in his own way. i feel like a bad bad girl. i feel like i keep making the same mistake and hope i’m not hurting him like how it hurts me

  276.  #276Sun Goddess on February 17, 2012 at 6:49 pm

    I feel like I want to call LP and mother him and tell him everything he should pack because the last trip we went on he only brought one pair of pants. I don’t want to spend our whole time there buying clothes!

  277.  #277Sun Goddess on February 17, 2012 at 6:51 pm

    I won’t do that but I so want to!

  278.  #278FlowerChild77 on February 17, 2012 at 7:01 pm

    “Diary of a Mad Black Woman” (Tyler Perry movie) is on TBS right now 🙂

  279.  #279Starla on February 17, 2012 at 7:04 pm

    oh my, i just watched love scripts about getting more time with your man and rori suggests i start being more vocal about when I’m free and specifically desiring to see him then.

    I can do some variation of this. at least as an experiment.

    but we’re not committed. but it’s just a thought. if i suggested we get together sooner rather than later, he would gladly make it happen. i’m pretty terrified of overfunctioning, though!

  280.  #280Lena on February 17, 2012 at 7:15 pm

    Good day, everyone

    I caught myself yesterday that man dont really srick around me or I dont excite them hoe I used to because its like a have no power in my heart. Like I am out of battery or its thickly covered.

    I caught myself that I am forcing to do smth or say smth. Its very uncomfortable not to lean forward and to use FM.

    A messages me yesterday but I dont feel really connected and I think its mostly because of me. I mean – I dont have fun. Everytime I think of opening up its like there is an empty space where so much fun was.

    Rori writes there – do you love yourself? I think I dont. After my breakup it was so painful and I felt so angry, humiliates, rejected and worthless, messed up and sick – I just cant really love myself. I feel used for opening my heart to someone. Trusting and believing someone.

    And I want to have a good, loving relationship and I just dont know how to do it. Like its not interesting and predictable and I already “know” all way ahead.

    Where did my spark go, my real me?..

  281.  #281Brenda on February 17, 2012 at 7:19 pm

    I appreciate you thinking of me. I just got home from a meetup group for Christian Singles. Boring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let’s have full-fledged conversations about board games (spelled bored?) and places to hike in the area.

    All it does is make me miss Ryan times ten. And that is nicht goot when I’m trying to end it with him. Da)mn! I arrived early, and Ryan called me while I was in the parking lot, wanting to go out. I would have if I wasn’t planning to do this, because I want to deliver my end-it speech in person.

    So I told him it was a date, and if I wasn’t so gung ho to get my end-it speech overwith (while I’m strong! Yikes!), I wouldn’t have offered to get together with him after my “date”. He said he wasn’t sure and just text him.

    When I texted him 2.5 hours later, he was in bed for the night (at 9 pm??). I felt disappointed, and I felt frustrated, and I felt afraid that I wouldn’t have the strength to deliver my end it speech if I waited. So a little of it leaked out:

    B: I feel like I’m starving for love. 🙁

    R: At least you’re doing the right thing and you’re dating.

    B: Yeah, when you’re starving in one field, you go looking for another field.

    So that felt bad, since there was no response and since I had planned to do it in person. Ugh.

    And even now I am fighting the urge to deliver the rest of my end-it speech because I feel so deeply frustrated. I feel frustrated with him, and I feel frustrated with the quality of men I am meeting elsewhere and mostly I feel frustrated with my craving for love and affection and sex.

    I didn’t really want to come home. I had envisioned an exciting night at the bar with karaoke with Ryan, before giving him my end-it speech. And now I probably won’t hear from him another week and I feel scared I will lose my resolve to end it because I miss him too darn much.

    I don’t want to be a crumb taker. I don’t want to be home. I don’t want to be alone. I don’t want to be single. I don’t like this at all. I want to be loved and cherished and caressed.

    I feel so tempted to text him again right now.

  282.  #282Starla on February 17, 2012 at 7:49 pm

    I feel you, brenda. Leaning back is so hard. I know you were pretty upset around me last time we interacted but please don’t feel weird on my account about spamming away and leaning on this blog to help you stay leaned back.

  283.  #283Silver-Tongued Siren on February 17, 2012 at 8:11 pm

    266 Turquoise.

    Could I actually choose one of them?

    lol, I don’t know, I do like them both quite a lot.

    I DID once want to marry BF – and I did already give up BF before (when I was IN Looove with him) (tho we were NOT in a rlsp by any means, he was out of state, etc.)… to be with MILW.

    I still feel VERY strongly about MILW. I picture him in my life forever, everyday, as a partner and father. As much as I love him I can’t sit here just waiting..or at least can’t sit here and not have any attention from other men to keep me light and open to MILW. I would like to have some options anyway right now. 🙂 Aside from making me feel good, and being practice for me, options are my leverage.

    it would be helpful to get some other options happening, it’s just hard with baby/no childcare.

    I wonder how this makes MILW and BF feel. That I see both of them. I wish I knew.

    I don’t know if I can give up Man I Live With – but if he’s not here, I’m not giving up anything (other than the chance he’ll come back and be with his family), … (yeah.. that would be hard – I believe that I am the best thing for him, the best thing he’s ever found, and the only person that will ever love him the way I do. I think that what he’s trying right now can only fail, period, and that means that in the end, I can only WIN, period – if I am available when he’s finally ready to come HOME and be faithful to me, love and support me and work through our stuff.)…I want MILW here with me.

    I LOVE MILW immensely.

    I love BF too… but.. I don’t know. I have been feeling uncertain ..bored.. ? (he is not as social, doesn’t care about going to events so much or nice dinners with friends much, etc. he is not a guy with a full social calendar, he seems more like a “meet for dinner with this friend”, “go to a small group gathering” kinda guy. that’s nice sometimes, but sometimes i wanna do other things. and I like getting dressed up to go out – and he doesn’t take me anywhere I can dress up for, and doesn’t seem to care about getting crazy fun dressed up costumized either (tho I have seen him get in costume for a party or two over the years). I don’t know.

    I picture myself with MILW when we are old, taking care of each other, always being attracted to him, being happy with him even if we one day get old and stop having sex..I enjoy working together and accomplishing things together.

    BF.. I don’t know. For some reason lately I have a hard time picturing that – like I am scared something will happen to him healthwise that I couldn’t take care of, (how silly is that?) or that I won’t be attracted to him when we’re older or that I feel bored with him, or that later he will start doing things that I don’t like -shutting down a lot being cold ignoring – (his way of dealing with things when he doesn’t like it).. which I have experienced a couple times in the past couple of months and I don’t like that either..or that he will lie to me and see other people..

    (and MILW is very straightforward most of the time – tells me just what he thinks) I know MILW – I have known BF for years but I have LIVED with MILW for a handful of years. I don’t really KNOW BF on a day to day basis anymore – I once lived “with” him in the same apartment with other roommates, off and on, but it wasn’t us as a couple, and since then he’s moved all around the country, lived with other women, been in several relationships…

    anyway.. it’s all speculation… and some of it seems ridiculous, but this is the stuff that goes thru my head sometimes. I am not sure why??!?
    Maybe I just start thinking these things because I really want to be with MILW or am afraid.

    Yes I love MILW very much. I would do anything to make him happy if I could just feel loved and safe and important also.

    I am just tired of feeling stuck in the same place lately,
    though maybe I should actually be happy with it.

    I wouldn’t know what to do if BF wrote back and said YES that’s what he intended about the living situation, honestly.
    but sometimes I want to give it a chance. If I knew without a doubt that MILW was in a quick time frame going to get back home, be a good role model for our kids, be a faithful partner.. I wouldn’t even be considering it.

    This all feels scary to me.

  284.  #284Silver-Tongued Siren on February 17, 2012 at 8:16 pm

    Brenda: the meetup sounds like torture. loll.

    i have been thinking about finding some meetups to go to also..though limited with baby most of the time..

    i wonder if you could find any that are just activity groups or something else rather than specifically singles groups .. (but groups where you would meet men).

    So frustrating that ryan called while you were in the parking lot….. and then was in bed…..

    yes I relate to you a lot about losing resolve to say things. But you won’t – you will stay strong. Because if you REALLY want Ryan’s attention, maybe this is what you need to do – because you’re not getting what you want right now, are you?

    I am with you whatever you decide – I know it will be the right thing. Trust your intuition.

  285.  #285FlowerChild77 on February 17, 2012 at 8:32 pm

    (((((Brenda))))) I know it feels bad. I know it’s hard. We’re here for you.

    Him saying, “At least you’re doing the right thing and you’re dating” I would not want to continue “explaining” any more to him.

    Isn’t this the part where he says he doesn’t enjoy the friendship? I don’t think he wants to know all that 🙁

    Please don’t get angry with me…I just hate seeing you hurting when you can stop this cycle— with Rori’s tools and support from the blog–and probably support from your church, too. We all care about you, Brenda.

  286.  #286sunshine on February 17, 2012 at 8:41 pm

    random thoughts for the day..I feel chilly its cold in my room. I feel lonely but hopeful may this upcoming week be better than last. I felt so embarrassed and angry this week, I feel like I was not good enough in the tasks that I did and i feel frustrated. I want to be the best I can for me and Im tired of being judged and a scapegoat amongst my peers. I will do the best I can this week and Im also going to church on sunday:) good night every one

  287.  #287Jilly on February 17, 2012 at 8:43 pm

    Brenda ((((hugs))))

    Turquoise…WOW…yes…I can definitely see the difference…you did so well!!! it feels so much softer and more open and definitely more loving and less controlling…

    Starla…so Rori recommends to express to CF what you want or need him to do and when you are free? I like that..I hope I’m getting that right…

    Lizka…no I don’t think Rugby Man is asking him 🙂 my roommates boyfriend seems to be infatuated with my love life too…always asking her about it and who I’ve slept with…who knew my life was so interesting 😉 the thing that threw me off was her saying “I think he has a crush on you”. But I’m going to pretend she never said it and leave it at that.

    K so I just watched “The Vow” and it made me feel so many emotions!!!!

    I wish Rugby Man had texted tonight..but he didn’t 🙁 he will be home tomorrow morning though…the movie made me totally think of him…tomorrow is going to be a long day til I get to see him lol

  288.  #288LiliBee on February 17, 2012 at 8:52 pm


    Thank You FW! I’m registered! 🙂
    I feel all siked for it!

  289.  #289Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 9:32 pm

    I’m going to lean forward with ATW and say it feels vad not to have news from him in two days…

  290.  #290Turquoise on February 17, 2012 at 9:40 pm

    Hi Sirens, I’m about to get a bath and go to bed… it’s 12:30 and my first floor is spotless. 🙂 I cleaned all 4 bathrooms and straightened up the gameroom. My room is good, but the spare room and girls rooms need a little TLC. We need to go through and get rid of stuff, so if their dad doesn’t come home we’ll do that this weekend. He hasn’t called so I have two theories.

    1. It would not be unlike him to just show up. TO not say he’s coming and then be here. Sometimes I feel like he’s trying to catch me with someone else or something… I don’t know. He says it’s a surprise, but it doesn’t usually feel that way.

    2. He originally said he was going to wait and come up tomorrow morning, so he felt no need to clarify that and will call in the morning to let me know he’s on his way.

    I hope it’s the second version, just because I want things to be different between us… not to go backwards into old patterns.

    I guess there is option 3 also, that he’ll decide to just stay there this weekend, and I’m ok with that too. I’ll still see my friend tomorrow and have some stuff I really want to get done here. I have surprise party plans to make and want to take some stuff to Goodwill. My garage is too full. Some needs to go, soon.

    Oh! One more thing… last week I bought two copies of a Jim Brickman Love CD at Target. One for me and one for my mother in law. I didn’t look that closely to all the songs as I was rushing and just wanted to grab her a little get well/Valentine’s gift from the girls. I couldn’t get it to play on the CD player in my room and kept forgetting to take it out to the car. Tonight I did, and while I was waiting for the girls I read through the list of songs, and our song (my ex and I) is I Swear. And it’s on there, and it’s a beautiful piano version. Of all the love songs in the world, there are 14 chosen, and mine is one of them. 🙂 Made my heart skip a beat!

  291.  #291Turquoise on February 17, 2012 at 9:43 pm

    I don’t blame you Lizka, I’d be tempted too… but I think you’ll regret it tomorrow.

    Sorry sweetie. I hate no contact. Maybe this is why you shouldn’t sleep with him. If he’s not going to contact you daily, maybe you don’t need to be having sex with him. What do you think?

  292.  #292Peaches on February 17, 2012 at 9:48 pm

    Hi LiliBee 🙂

  293.  #293Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 9:53 pm

    I’m about to lean forward with ATW. The stupid urgency came back…

    I had a bad night. FakeCD (the computer guy) came home with two bottles of wine and fixed my computer.

    But he was pushy and I was so not interested because he has a girlfriend. He told me it was going very bad with the gf, but I’m still not interested. I told him when he’ll break up with his girl friend, I’ll be interested on going on a real date.

    But he kept being pushy. We cuddled a little but he tried to kiss me (and even verbally told me he WANTED to kiss me and asked me again and again to let him kiss me but I was so turned off by his needy attitude.

    I set up the boundary of I want to date only single men (duhhhhh) but he kept pushing… Not listening at me at all…

    So in general the night felt bad. Really bad. When I see guys like that, I miss ATW. And I want to lean forward even though it’s almost 1 am.

    I know it’s a bad idea because if he hasn’t text me, he’s probably out with some friends (or even worst on a date) and I will feel even more disappointed if he doesn’t answer. But I feel so lonely and I so want to talk to him and to know why he hasn’t call me in two days… I feel so sad again… 🙁

  294.  #294Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 9:57 pm

    Turquoise –

    We spent Sunday night together, and than he contacted me every night Monday, Tuesday (for Valentine’s) and Wednesday.

    Yesterday he was out with my collegue so I guess this is why he didn’t text.

    And I guess tonight he’s out with some other of his friends and this is why he’s not texting again…

    The paterns seems to be he’s texting when he’s home doing nothing. But as soon as he has something better to do, he forgets about me. 🙁

  295.  #295Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 10:05 pm

    If I don’t text him tonight, I’ll be so disappointed to haven’t talk to him in two days…

    And if I text him, I might be disappointed because he is most likely not respond because he’s out and probably drunk…

    So I loose in both case…

  296.  #296Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 10:12 pm

    I feel shaky

  297.  #297Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 10:15 pm

    Why does when I have bad dates, I miss the “good” CDs and feel the urgency to lean forward?

  298.  #298Brenda on February 17, 2012 at 10:24 pm

    I think I gained 5 lbs this week, in leaning back.

  299.  #299Brenda on February 17, 2012 at 10:31 pm

    I hate life as a single.

  300.  #300Starbright on February 17, 2012 at 10:45 pm

    For those hurting and trying to lean back…
    (right now thinking of Brenda and Lizka)

    The book, “Getting to I do” by Patricia Allen is quite good! I have read almost all of it in the past 1 1/2 days. Lots of Rori type work with some differences.

    Interesting idea about how we can get addicted to oxytocin for at least 8 weeks (sometimes up to 2 years!)

    Hearing the guy’s voice, seeing him, smelling him or email/texting him restarts the oxytocin fix. Then we are back to square one.

    Cherry Norris’ “Duty Dating” movie is about this work and again some real tie ins with Rori.

    Zara put up links. And also Rori wrote about Cherry on one of the blogs.

  301.  #301Starbright on February 17, 2012 at 10:51 pm

    According to Pat Allen:

    What I meant was that if you didn’t see, hear, smell or read emails/texts by a man you could still be addicted to oxytocin by him for up to 8 weeks or in some cases for two years.

    There are some situations where Rori says one really ought to just walk away…

    I am finding this to be something I need to do now and how hard it is to stay away…but he is unavailable and I get sucked in whether I am cding or not.

  302.  #302Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 11:15 pm

    Thank you Starbright

    I took the book in note, will see if I can find it at the library tomorrow. Very good idea to treat myself. I am very interested to learn how oxytocin works….

  303.  #303Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 11:24 pm

    Anyway, I talked to my girl friend and I am feeling better. For once, she didn’t say how bad he is and she didn’t push me to feel guilty about thinking the way I do. She was very nice and said it’s “normal” if he hasn’t text for two days and whatever said the collegue about girls being attracted by ATW…

    I also had a little little fight with DjCD but he understood that I had a bad day and was very comprehensive… awwww 🙂

    So anyway now it’s too late to lean forward on ATW, it’s 2.20 AM here…

    So I will just go to sleep and hope to have a nice one and wake up very late tomorrow. I’m going to get my hair done and maybe do some jogging and cleaning and go out with my guy friend. Should be interesting…

    The urge is still there, but it would be stupid to call him in the middle of the night…


  304.  #304Lizka on February 17, 2012 at 11:25 pm

    Ok this awful day is over. I’m off to bed now…

  305.  #305Peaches on February 17, 2012 at 11:50 pm

    (((((((((((Lizka)))))))))))) sleep well, love your dreams, wake rested 🙂

  306.  #306Daria on February 17, 2012 at 11:57 pm

    feeling so disappointed! was excited to havea lot of missed callsa nd thinking i might even wind up goin out tonite after gettin back from a show w my parents

    but now even Guyfriend CD whio had called me twice did not answer 🙁

  307.  #307Daria on February 17, 2012 at 11:58 pm

    fln sad – reminded me of middleschool

    i fele comfortable being the one left out and nto having anyhone to go out with or connect to so that i can get in my groove of feelig alone and hopeless

    i want to heal this

  308.  #308Daria on February 17, 2012 at 11:59 pm

    feelin this way, i feel frurstarted, got little patience for some quetsioms online from men like what are you looking for here

    i dont want to type that

    i wonder whatsup with that

  309.  #309Daria on February 18, 2012 at 12:02 am

    last nite i went out dancing with my date but actually i felt really disconnected from him after one point

    i dono if he got mad (i had a lil issue i talked to him abaou)

    or waht

    i would look in his eyes, we were dancing face to face

    and almost every time he was not really making eye contact with me

    i felt weird

  310.  #310Daria on February 18, 2012 at 12:03 am

    im thinking im so not lovable or these men that throw themselves at me would stick around

    and i would have lots of girlfreinds and even guys to go out with

  311.  #311Daria on February 18, 2012 at 12:11 am

    i hate feeling love this!

    i love feeling like this!

    i want to heal this feelign SO BAD


  312.  #312Daria on February 18, 2012 at 12:13 am

    i feeel like crying

  313.  #313Daria on February 18, 2012 at 12:22 am

    i feel like i dont have a date to the prom or smething…

    i feel like this ALL the time

  314.  #314Silver Moonbeam on February 18, 2012 at 12:27 am

    #163 Starla

    Don’t know how to do the red face on here, but yeah I can relate, maybe not quite that bad, but talk about a crazy 8 LOL!!

  315.  #315Daria on February 18, 2012 at 12:36 am

    i just threatend an “annoying” cd with getting cussed out!


    it felt fun but i see he’s not answering…

    he’s not harassing me naymore tho either

  316.  #316Silver Moonbeam on February 18, 2012 at 12:37 am

    #225 Ella

    Just change your pics around on POF or put up a new one, it draws them in like moths to a flame. 😀

  317.  #317Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 12:37 am

    OMG I will have to try to catch up with all of you over the weekend…I’m so lost on what you’ve all been up to.

    Couple of times today, I felt really weird. Like I wasn’t me or I wasn’t in my body. It was strange. As if I was hearing myself speak and seeing my hands move on my plate of food, but I felt non physical…almost like I didn’t know who I was or what I was doing there. It was weird!!!!!!!! I didnt like it and when I heard my voice talking I sounded like a foreign person that I didn’t know. Strange….

    I also have been having strange dreams like the other night I was on a boat and it was floating around the ocean in the dark, it was a small boat, I could see the creatures in the ocean and it was scary. I didn’t like that either!!!!

    What the…..????? is going on with me….

    Oh and by the way, I’m attracting male energy like crazy.

  318.  #318Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 12:38 am


  319.  #319Daria on February 18, 2012 at 12:40 am

    thanks Emerson

  320.  #320Daria on February 18, 2012 at 12:41 am

    im thinking about the first time Security Man came to see me it was at 1 43 in the morning it felt so comfortable with him

  321.  #321Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 12:45 am

    Regarding this article…well I’ve been on both sides of that decision, stay and fight for it or just walk away.

    I think I tend to walk away more often. I would like to change that now that I have Rori’s tools…I used to stick around and fight for the relationship to work only to find it a futile attempt…now I know why because I was too much in my boy energy and I was too into the outcome and the control mode to make it work. Now I know to be soft and girly and warm and omg….
    I have a new CD maybe…he has not asked me out officially and he’s about ten years older, but wow he’s a powerful person with influence so I’m kinda intrigued…I can soo tell he likes me and is attracted….
    hee hee it’s kinda cute…The fact that he’s all smiley around me kinda turns me on! He’s kinda a big deal and people respect him! Lil ol me is a bit shy with this…

    I also have other guys wanting to be with me at times but I sort of have been brushing past them…like I don’t have time, I know that is bad, but I’m busy and I have to be selective with my time, it’s precious…and i am always nice though.

    Still think about Recycled CD. ALL.THE.TIME. argh…hate it.

  322.  #322Daria on February 18, 2012 at 12:56 am

    wow annoying cd comes back with a bang!

    annoying cd: i wana fuc*k

    daria: im feelin sad rite now so you gonna get cussed out if u keep it up

    annoying cd: Lol cuss words don’t hurt me im from the hood, how come u sad

  323.  #323Daria on February 18, 2012 at 12:58 am

    wow Emerson your vibe sounds WAY DIFFERENT and super attractive! yay!

  324.  #324Starla on February 18, 2012 at 1:16 am

    Emerson, it feels nice to see you posting!! I can’t fully remember — what happened with Recycled CD? If it’s painful to talk about, you could give me “cliff’s notes”. sorry i don’t remember=/

  325.  #325Starla on February 18, 2012 at 1:41 am

    “Lol cuss words don’t hurt me im from the hood, how come u sad”

    yes more of this please and thank you, sexy men of the world.

  326.  #326Daria on February 18, 2012 at 1:44 am


    Guyfriend CD is coming through!

  327.  #327Daria on February 18, 2012 at 2:04 am

    or not! he’s like flaking!

    but i called Getright to ask about smoke for sale

    and nwo he calls me back liek “yeah whatsup BOO”

    im like… umgh hi Getright im just calling about smoke

    lol! 😀 BOO huh that felt flattering …

  328.  #328ldrhourglass on February 18, 2012 at 2:09 am

    I find leaning back very difficult. I feel so scared. I feel pulled in all directions. Intellectually I understand that he is under a lot of pressure and my own loneliness is contributing to asking him for more time. I understand even that he may not be able to do anything till he finishes his course (we are not very young and I am older) but I feel so neglected. I feel he has everyone and everything to distract himself and never feel the need to connect with me. We have been fighting so much over this. He has pulled the silent treatment again on me. He responds to questions and if I tell him I am going out, he says things like take care about travelling back at night and all. But he has stopped initiating. He feels I am not happy and he tries to do as much as he could but I seem to want more and more. I do not know how to break the pattern. Please help. I have been obsessing and it feels so bad.

  329.  #329Silver Moonbeam on February 18, 2012 at 2:24 am

    Emerson!!!!! Good to see you back. 🙂

  330.  #330Silver Moonbeam on February 18, 2012 at 2:25 am

    {{{{Brenda}}}} – where are you?

    Come on, don’t go hiding under the duvet this is your perfect time to HEAL…………

    Spam the blog and get it all out!!

  331.  #331Brenda on February 18, 2012 at 2:35 am


    RE: #282 – I agree with you about meetup groups not specifically labeled “singles”. This sounds so judgmental, but it wasn’t exactly the creme of the crop. And there would be less pressure in a group of people with a specific interest, not just talking about playing bored games. Oh please.

    I came out of there feeling totally missing Ryan, and that can’t be, because I’ve got to leave him alone. I leaned back all week, 6 days, and then totally lost it and texted (more than once) when I got out of that meetup group.

    And what’s worse is he keeps me isolated, looking like a fool, with his denial of it being anything but a friendship between us. His words say one thing while his eyes and frequent negotiation of our “friendship” say quite another. I am left much like a hooked fish, being reeled in for the kill.

  332.  #332Ella on February 18, 2012 at 2:47 am


    Please can we have a paradigm shift?

    Leaning back is not hard.

    It friggin ROCKS!

    It is just a habit we have to get into…

    Now that it is the norm for me leaning forward actually feels uncomfortable and weird.

  333.  #333Daria on February 18, 2012 at 2:50 am

    Brenda – men can have sex with women they consider friends…rori talks about the “erotic component” that can be there… and that as a woman we can mistake that as romantic interest

    my guess as explanation for the looks and negotiation/flirting/sexual/intimate moments

    that’s what kept me hooked with Guywho i remember that and im seeing your words in that

  334.  #334Ella on February 18, 2012 at 2:53 am

    Ok now I feel a bit harsh…

    I know it can be hard (leaning back) however what I want is for us to choose to drop that, and focus on what is great about when we use the tools.

    Feels easier to me for the most part.

    Just trying to help.

  335.  #335Daria on February 18, 2012 at 2:54 am

    yeah its not hard

    right now tho i feel a bit sad

    i did lean forward a bit and wrote a previous CD back that i hadnt answered for 2 months (cuz he panicked when he couldnt get thru to me and assumed i was avoiding him, and said some agressive stuff about that… and i felt turned off … i dont want to feel attacked or blamed)

    i felt guilty cuz he had gone down on me the first time we met and actually we clicked… and then i never answered his calls or messages

    and i kept thinking of his lil self esteem beign hurt (a past pattern thing for me)

    anyway i wrote him

    not a biggie tho

    i feel all sad neighbor guy flaked on me

    and guy i had sex with hasnt called me

    im all obsessing about him i notice


    i want to get an std check im tihnking before i have sex again

    and typin this thought ok i can use a condom too if i dont

    i dont have to hold back from sex just cuz i had it

  336.  #336Daria on February 18, 2012 at 2:54 am

    i deserve lots of sex, not just when im starving for it

  337.  #337Ella on February 18, 2012 at 3:04 am


    Here to support you with the weight side of things if you want it.

  338.  #338Brenda on February 18, 2012 at 3:19 am

    Silver Moonbeam,

    Thank you! I feel scared. This thing is bigger than a date gone wrong and I feel isolated because no one believes me what is really going on…understandably, since Ryan’s words make it sound like it is all in my head. I don’t know if it is wise to put it out here.

    All I know is he has a powerful grip on me. One of my best friends, ID, is the only one of my friends who knows him personally. She and her kids stayed with me for 3 weeks in 2009 when they were homeless, so they were around Ryan a lot.

    She has been very concerned about me this week, calling me at least twice a day to see if I am alright. She has warned me I MUST get away from him, and I believe she is right. I have decided I will either call or email him today to end it, because I can see from last night that I don’t have the control to tell him in person, or I will just fall back into it again and not stick with breaking away.

    You don’t have to believe me that he is interested in more than friendship. I believe he is interested in owning my soul. But in the meantime, please believe me that I have to end it and don’t let me get away with anything less if he tries to suck me back in (and I do mean suck, because I feel like a victim being sucked dry by a vampire).

    I felt almost shocked at the pull to see him last night after 6 days of successfully leaning back and controlling myself (barely) with not contacting him. This has to end. Today.

  339.  #339Brenda on February 18, 2012 at 3:23 am


    RE: #336 – Thank you! I will contact you.

  340.  #340Brenda on February 18, 2012 at 3:26 am

    P.S. My friend, ID, has seen me at my worst. I contacted her in the two days following his fake proposal in 2009 in order to protect myself, because she walked me thru it when I was sui*cidal. She knows him and the situation intimately, and I am letting her press me to end it with serious urgency, because she is also very insightful.

  341.  #341Femininewoman on February 18, 2012 at 3:31 am

    Ella I totally agree with you

  342.  #342Brenda on February 18, 2012 at 3:42 am

    Ella, I sent you a FB message. Let me know if you prefer for me to contact you a different way.

  343.  #343Brenda on February 18, 2012 at 3:44 am

    Starbright and everyone else being so supportive and caring,

    Thank you very much!

  344.  #344Brenda on February 18, 2012 at 3:46 am


    RE: #285 – Thanks. He isn’t interested in more than friendship. He is just interested in owning my soul.

  345.  #345silver moonbeam on February 18, 2012 at 3:54 am

    R is mentally ill not evil

  346.  #346seam on February 18, 2012 at 3:56 am

    R is mentally ill not evil


  347.  #347silver moonbeam on February 18, 2012 at 4:29 am

    R is not evil he is mentally ill

  348.  #348Jilly on February 18, 2012 at 5:31 am

    It seriously still amazes me that I can get hung up on someone and let my NV’s go crazy ….and let my vibe “crash”


    So just because I didn’t hear from Rugby Man last night I feel all insecure and needy and unsure….

    ugggg…will it always feel like this?

    with a man that I feel excited about?

    I have my own life that I feel excited about…I have other CD’s…

    What is this??

  349.  #349Jilly on February 18, 2012 at 5:34 am

    It makes me really want to remember pre Rori…like …how was I? Did I initiate a lot? I feel sure that I would pick up the slack…and make it easier…

    I didn’t sleep well last night…I was feeling anxiety…what? seriously? NO!!! I don’t want to feel this way!!! I do NOT want to feel hung up on any one man!!

    But then I feel like I need to shut down a little…to make that happen…I’m good at that part

  350.  #350Jilly on February 18, 2012 at 5:42 am

    It must be the oxytocin thing…

  351.  #351Jilly on February 18, 2012 at 5:46 am

    oooooh…Rori talks about this in Commitment Blueprint…I’m going to go watch again…yay I feel happy about this

  352.  #352Femininewoman on February 18, 2012 at 6:12 am

    From how to date a millionaire by A Fox


    Millionaires are always on the lookout for the classic “gold digger.” They are looking out for women who obviously want money from them and nothing else.

    Do NOT be that woman. Even if your financial situation is precarious, do not ask for money. It is okay to explain your situation to him IF he asks you,
    but by all means, do NOT request anything of him.

    What if he offers money to you? Many millionaires do this at the beginning of a relationship to see how you might react to his offer. It is best to politely turn it down.

    However, if you have been dating for a while and he begins to insist on giving you money, it might be time to sit down and have a long talk about what you want from the relationship. Starting with
    “I want you, not your money” is a good way to broach the subject.

  353.  #353Jilly on February 18, 2012 at 6:13 am

    I guess I’m the only one up :/

    so my take away…it’s great to feel my feelings…but it’s what I DO with those feelings that determines everything…ya..ok…lean back…let the water wheel come towards me…flow over me with sparkles…ahhh…that feels better…

    Hope everyone has a great day…I’m off to school… 🙂

  354.  #354LiliBee on February 18, 2012 at 6:20 am



    I totally “get” you. I miss me too.
    I am taking this weekend reconnecting w myself.

    I’ve been out partying and cd’ing for the past 2 weekends.
    I had plans to go w my gf to have dinner w her single brother, then go out.
    After talking over the phone last night, we both agreed that we were “party’d out”.
    We’ll take a rain check.

  355.  #355Femininewoman on February 18, 2012 at 6:21 am

    Take a look at all the buildings. Take a look at the cars. Take a look at the houses. Take a look at the streets, look at the highways. Take a look at everything you see around you today, and ask yourself, “What is the common denominator to all of this?”

    It’s called a foundation. Everything that’s built – whether it’s a car, a house, a building – is built from the ground up, one piece at a time. The car cannot run without the drive train and the wheels. The building cannot stand tall in the sky without the base. The house would fall over if not for the frame.

    So, how does this relate to your life? I want you to look back today at all your past relationships, and ask yourself, “If I spent more time on the foundation, could those relationships have worked better?” We get so caught up in the beginning of a relationship and how great we’re feeling. We love what we’re feeling. We’re amazed at what we’re feeling.

    It’s always about the feeling: that feeling of being loved, the feeling of seeing something for the first time, the feeling great sex. It’s all about feelings. The problem is that when we are so caught up in Feeling Land, we tend to overlook some of the cracks in the foundation that may come up in the future.

    Relationships are no different than a building or a company, whatever it might be. Everything needs a solid foundation.

    So, the next time you get involved in a relationship – and I’m not telling you not to embrace the feeling, because your feelings are definitely justified—spend more time working on the foundations of love and understanding. Work towards understanding their love language, understanding their needs, wants, and desires, and giving them what they need. This is the building of a foundation.

    They need to do the same thing for you, because if not, then the love that you’re building will not last. If we do this right, and we ignore those feelings of lust, then we’ll get a little sense of reason in our heads. Our relationships will stand a much better chance to survive.

    A relationship is a building. It’s the park; it’s the house;l it’s your entire universe. It could be the foundation of so many amazing things that happen to you. So if you’re dating someone now, think about the foundation first, and embrace the feelings, and make sure the foundation is solid.

    I want all of you to have a really successful love life.

    Your friend

    David Wygant

  356.  #356Ella on February 18, 2012 at 6:23 am


    “Thank you! I feel scared. This thing is bigger than a date gone wrong and I feel isolated because no one believes me what is really going on…understandably, since Ryan’s words make it sound like it is all in my head. I don’t know if it is wise to put it out here.

    All I know is he has a powerful grip on me. One of my best friends, ID, is the only one of my friends who knows him personally. She and her kids stayed with me for 3 weeks in 2009 when they were homeless, so they were around Ryan a lot.”

    I believe you.

    And the thing is that he only does what he does because you let him.

    I think the way round it is to just agree with him.

    ‘Oh yes dating is totally the right thing for me’

    ‘Yes it is only friendship’

    And then keep your distance.

    Or, what worked with MWC, when I was CONVINVCED he was taking coke, was that I just sat there, decided to be completely open (although willing to do whatever I needed to look after myself), I surrendered to the possibility that I may not know what was happening.

    It felt scary.

    And I quietly said ‘Well I am seeing a different reality from you. And I don’t know what to do’

    That opened the conversation right up. For him to tell me his reality (at the time I didn’t believe him but I was willing to keep an open mind, and just entertain the possibility that there might be a different option than the one I was seeing, or at very least that he believed there was), and I just quietly and openly listened to him.

    Then I quietly explained my reality.

    I asked him what we could do when we were seeing such different things.

    It didn’t get solved then, but it melted a lot of the conflict, panic and urgency, and allowed me to see him just as another person without judding and putting him through my filters.

    And in the end with me it looks like I may have been the one not seeing what was really there.

    But, that didn’t really matter in the end.

    All that mattered was respecting each other as people and deciding whether or not it was working for me.

    Without trying to solve it. Or take any drastic feeling action.

    Just my experience I thought I would share.

  357.  #357Ella on February 18, 2012 at 6:34 am

    Sorry, amendment to 353

    ‘He only does what he does because you let him’

    Sounds so conrolling.

    What I mean is he does what he does and he only does it to ‘you’ because you let him.

    You can choose to accept or reject.


  358.  #358LiliBee on February 18, 2012 at 6:47 am

    Can’t believe that I feel good being home w myself and not feeling lonely. Wow, that feels great! 🙂

    There are so many things I want to do, I don’t know where to start. I really want to make the most out of it, bc I plan on being busy and going out, cd’ing and the whole 9 yards.

    There’s a cd that is growing on me, but I want to join an online dating site. I don’t want to zero in on only 1 guy.
    I want the entire catalog open to do window shopping and have plenty of options to choose from.
    I don’t want to get totally into the 1st guy that comes along.

    When I 1st started seeing D, he had asked me what I was looking for in a relationship.
    I told him that I was very happy w my life the way it was, that I felt complete.
    I said “I don’t feel any empty holes that I need to fill, so I don’t want a bf just to say I have a bf. I just want to have fun getting to know you, be in the moment, and if it develops into a romantic relationship, it will add to my already existing happiness. Of course, I do want a happy comitted relationship, I do want to live w someone some day. But I don’t want to fall into the trap of seduction or love at 1st sight. I want a real solid relationship.”

    He went on to put so much pressure on me, I felt suffocated. But I was also afraid to miss an opportyunity on a great guy. His neighbourlady (was my friend back then) had only good things to say about him an strongly encouraged me to be with him.
    At the same time, I felt frozen in fear to open up to him and let myself feel anything for him. I felt afraid of intimacy, afraid to later feel trapped.

    Right now, I feel scared to fall into that trap when I cd. I’m afraid to cave in to that pressure from a man again, and lose my aim to get to know him and just be in the moment, moment by moment without any pressure.

    That’s what I like about my current cd. He’s not in a hurry to just get with any woman.
    He’s learning to be on his own and connecting to himself.
    There’s no dating, so we’re just casually getting to know each other without any pressure.
    That feels so freeing! 🙂

    I’ve always stepped over myself to avoid missing an opportunity w a good guy. But the guys that have pressured me soooo much right at the start, all turn out to be extremely insecure men who do not know who they really want, they just know they desperately want “someone” in their lives, anyone.

    I feel so good cd’ing w a mature man who is taking his time to be w himself and learning to enjoy himself without a woman in his life.
    And I am doing the same.
    A man like that really inspires me to trust him.
    I’ve always been closed off, cold and distant bc I never trusted myself to make the right choice.
    When I have found myself trapped in the wrong choice, I never knew how to handle myself.

    I feel confident that I will know how to handle myself now, bc of what I learned from Rori, and what I learned about myself through my failed relationships.

  359.  #359Ella on February 18, 2012 at 6:52 am

    Hmmm, I am feeling disconnected from MWC.

    And that’s ok.

    I was out in town earlier promoting my businesses and I saw some BEAUTIFUL, sexy feeling sleep sets.

    Silky ones in my favourite colours.

    And I decided not to buy them yet as I am still needing to be careful with my finances until I manifest lots of money 🙂

    So I didn’t… but who knows, maybe I will, if I do well this week.

    As a reward.

    Oh, and I bought myself a cake as a naughty treat, and have just had a small(ish) amount.

    Am going to eat some salad and fish before going to work in a bit.

    Oh and first some housework…

  360.  #360LiliBee on February 18, 2012 at 7:07 am

    I feel good catching up w you sirens this morning 🙂
    I have missed you all.

    Yesterday after work, I went shopping at the dept store and treated myself:
    I bought a cushioned bulletin board to make my wishboard.
    I bought these cutsy pins to pin my pictures on the board.
    You know how I’ve often said how I enjoy being in the woods? Well I bought myself an indoor tree.

    I now have pretty plants and flowers in every room.
    They are all plastic and fabric, but the fakes are made to look so real nowadays.
    My place feels so warm, cozy and romantic.
    I achieved it by gradually getting stuff bit by bit over the last 2 and a half years.
    The same amount of time that lasted my relationship w D.
    I had started dating him only a month after I moved in here.
    Funny how that relationship has brought me to connect to myself, and as the relationship evolved, I’ve been gradually getting my place to reflect ME.
    Hmmm, I look back and see that the last 2 and half years have all been about propelling me to connecting to myself.

    That thought makes me feel peaceful.

    I so strongly wished to connect to myself, and eventhough things have been painfull for me, it has all happened perfectly to provide me w the opportunities to heal and grow into connecting w myself and falling in love w myself.

    I AM becoming the SIREN I always wanted to be. 🙂

  361.  #361Luzydel on February 18, 2012 at 7:08 am

    I wont have a car until monday, Ugh! I wanted to go for a drive, and then go to dance class. I guess it is time to finish clearing up the clutter in my apartment. Things I need to improve about myself are:

    *Be more organized
    *Do not procrastinate
    *Be more social to the people outside, instead to the people on the computer.
    *Let things happen…

  362.  #362Brenda on February 18, 2012 at 7:13 am


    Re 353- ty. Very helpful. I will use some of that verbatim.

  363.  #363Wildflower on February 18, 2012 at 7:14 am

    I always feel so nervous and vulnerable posting on the blog since it’s out on the internet for everyone to see, but I’m feeling desperate so here goes.

    Sirens I ended a three month relationship with a man a few weeks ago because I found out he was lying about being divorced, and most likely lying about many other things. He told me all of the “right” things during the time we dated such as we’re going to get engaged, have children, he wants to be with me forever, etc. etc.

    My gut felt weary of him from day one, but I decided to keep dating him as an experiment. Eventually his actions spoke louder than his charming words and I ended it (and I do not communicate with him anymore). I could get in to all of the things that he did that didn’t “make sense” or align with the words he was telling me but I don’t want to be too wordy.

    The thing is part of me feels sad about the breakup. I feel sad and frustrated starting over.

    The other MAJOR thing is the deceit. I find myself constantly wondering what was true and even worse who this man truly is. I suspect he lies about a lot of things. He was only here temporarily for work and then moved to another country, so noone else really knows him. I don’t know why I need this confirmation or have this desire to play detective and figure it out. I know it is not good for me and will only hold me back.

    Has anyone ever dealt with a person who deceives? I’m getting back in to circular dating, trying to stay busy, I listen to Rori’s recordings and other uplifting recordings while I’m writing at work. But I feel so all alone, like noone truly understands what it feels like to have someone “figure out” what in life is so important to you and then use it to manipulate you.

    It’s like I wish I could just talk to someone who has known the “real” him for a while and could confirm that he is truly a liar. I know this will never happen and besides I already have 100% confirmation he lied about his marriage. But these thoughts are running me right now 🙁 Does anyone have any advice???

  364.  #364T-Girl on February 18, 2012 at 7:20 am

    LiliBee – you are sounding so good today! I love your wishboard idea with the cushioned bulletin board. I actually started cutting out pictures of mine last year but then stopped. There are so many things I want to do but so little time!

  365.  #365T-Girl on February 18, 2012 at 7:24 am


    I still say don’t even contact him to tell him its over. There seems to be no purpose in that except as an ultimatum to expect a reaction for change. Let him fall of your horse and make a big thud.

  366.  #366T-Girl on February 18, 2012 at 7:26 am

    Ella – I think recently you posted a link to your website for healthy eating? Can you repost it?

    I remember thinking I needed to go back and look at it but the blog moves so fast I don’t know where it is anymore.

  367.  #367Ella on February 18, 2012 at 7:30 am

    T Girl,


    This take you to the home page and you can navigate around from there.

    Contact me if you have any questions.


  368.  #368LiliBee on February 18, 2012 at 7:33 am



    You are such a mirror of me. I feel like hugging you and telling you that you are so awesome!

    The fact that you are awesome, you desserve to be loved and cherished, especially by YOU.

    I have spent my life wanting to “improve”.
    That word feels icky to me now, coz “improve myself” feels like I reject myself, that something is wrong w me.
    The most profound “transformation” for me is accepting myself totally…then everything else changes.
    I no longer want to “improve”, I want to “learn, grow and evolve”. Those words feel so much more loving and compassionate towards myself.
    When I used the word “improve”, I felt trapped and pressured, like I felt with D.
    When I use the words “learn, grow, evolve”, I feel cherished by myself like I am giving myself a precious gift.
    I feel light and free, like I feel w my new cd.

    Luzydel, I see you being harsh w yourself just like I was with myself not very long ago.

  369.  #369LiliBee on February 18, 2012 at 7:36 am

    But Luzydel,

    I do see you going on the right track to loving yourself.
    You are really determined to take care of yourself and not let yourself down.
    Wow, I am awwed at your courage and your strength! 🙂

  370.  #370LiliBee on February 18, 2012 at 7:40 am


    Thanks T-Girl 😉

    Just the fact that you do cut out your pictures plants the seeds and keeps your desires alive.
    So even if you don’t have time to make your board, you did the 1st step of recognizing what you want and claiming it by cutting out the pics. 🙂
    The time will show up sometime.

  371.  #371Ella on February 18, 2012 at 7:48 am

    Hmmm, realising.

    I feel very unsure about cake as a treat…

    I do sometimes have it.

    And to be honest I am not sure how much I enjoy it.

    I mean it tastes good. But not sure I feel too good after.

    I don’t like the sugar rush feeling.

    It leaves me feeling a bit strung out and tight in my chest.

    I may need to re-adjust my idea of what a ‘treat’ food is.

    Maybe a nice fruit smoothie or something like that instead.

    Or oatcakes with peanut butter.

    However I don’t want to scare my clients off by being too radical and purist, and I honestly believe balance is healthy.

    I mean to me Gillian McKeith does NOT look healthy whereas Nigella Lawson does!!! And she does eat fat and sugar sometimes…

    Good quality ingredients and occasional indulgence.

    It is something I am still experimenting on with myself and my clients to see what works.

    Sirens what are your opinions on this??

  372.  #372Ella on February 18, 2012 at 7:51 am

    I feel disconnected.

    And I don’t want to feel like an after thought!

    Pouty face.

    Yes, I am glad you miss me.

    A real date would feel good.

  373.  #373LiliBee on February 18, 2012 at 7:54 am


    Follow-up from the last thread…

    Our zumba instructor is only offering a zumba festival on the beach and his guidance to visit his home country…we all have to pay our own way $.

    What do you think about outdoor zumba for the summer?

  374.  #374Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 7:58 am

    Hi girls!

    The morning is here and I ATW havn’t call me yet… Been almost 3 days…

    After how many days can we say they “poofed” ?

    I’m should be crying my life away right now, but I just feel blah and a little strong too.

    I woke up with a semi-headache because of the bottle of wine I had last night and didn’t sleep my 8 hours beauty sleep because my mom woke me up ringing at my door.

    I just want to stay on the couch all day but since I’m awake earlier, I’m gonna run before my hair appointment. It’s gonna distract me.

    And I bet I’l gonna be tired when coming back from my appointment but I really don’t want to go into lazy-suranalyzing mode so on my way back, I’ll go buyb a coffee (and maybe some goodies) at Starbuck and come back and clean the house.

    I’m not sure if I feel too much like going out with my guy friend tonight. Maybe it’s a good idea but I feel like staying home and watch Bridget Jones Diary. Never saw it believe it or not…

  375.  #375Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 8:01 am

    And now, I just thought about that by the beginning of the week, I thought that ATW was trying to make me the one and now he haven’t call for 3 days… I feel so confuse. I guess I was wrong about thinking he wanted me to be the one… 🙁

  376.  #376Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 8:05 am

    I think he he comes back, I’m gonna have to think of a Feeling message about this.

    He came home on Sunday, spent the night here. I told him it feels bad when I sleep with a man and don’t hear from him after. He contacted me 3 days in a row…

    And dissapeared for (so far) 3 days…

    That doesn’t feel good. Anyone has ideas for a FM about that? I don’t want to blame him, I don’t want him to feel that I am manipulating him…


  377.  #377LiliBee on February 18, 2012 at 8:12 am



    I’m sure you will love that movie!

    The character in that movie feels so “real”. She’s not created to “look” good, she’s created to be so “real”.

    I bought “Valentine’s Day” yesterday. Can’t wait to curl up and watch it tonight…all by myself so I can fully immerse myself in it.
    I haven’t been able to get myself to do that in sooo long.
    When I used to, it felt so comforting.

    When I lived in my house w my ex, we had a projector in the basement livingroom w a 125 inch screen on the wall, and a huge cushy sofa.
    It felt so good to sink into the sofa and immerse myself in a good movie.

    Ahhh, I miss that!

    I still have the huge cushy sofa though 🙂

  378.  #378Brenda on February 18, 2012 at 8:16 am


    RE: #362 – “I still say don’t even contact him to tell him its over. There seems to be no purpose in that except as an ultimatum to expect a reaction for change. Let him fall of your horse and make a big thud.”

    He is not going to fall off the horse unless I push him off. I gave him trust and faith as we reconnected since Christmas, despite how deeply I had been hurt in 2009. I have been closely watching my emotions as a gauge of whether or not it was going to be a healthy relationship this time around.

    Up until this past week, it has felt mostly good. The exception was when he led me on with the extreme flirting, only to tell him it was just talk for fun. But I let it ride. This time around, after ignoring me for 6 days after one of our best dates ever, including Valentine’s Day ignoring me, I am sure that it is still toxic.

    I had promised myself when I chose to reconnect with him that if I started feeling pain and confusion again, as I did in 2009, I would end it. By ending it, I am NOT looking for him to change. I am looking to PROTECT MY HEART.

    I feel at a loss to fully explain the dynamics of this more than toxic relationship. I am no longer looking for more than friendship. He has proven he is going to go right on hurting me, in a psychological way.

    It is not a question of if he is looking for just friendship or for romance. He wants neither. He wants to own my soul. He wants to fully dominate me. Call it slavery thru brainwashing. Call it mind control.

    I am breaking away from it verbally because I need to. If I let it hang, I will go back to him. I cannot do that. My boy is protecting my girl. I cannot survive again what I survived in 2009.

  379.  #379Femininewoman on February 18, 2012 at 8:22 am

    RE 357 Lilibee I was just watching Whitney Houston in Try It on My Own. I recommend you check out that song or video. It so reflects what you say here.

  380.  #380Memulo on February 18, 2012 at 8:22 am


    Remember it’s still ‘go with the flow’ February 😉 Please just let it be, give him time and space. Lean back, it will only bring him closer to you. Do not initiate..

    I watched and old movie where a guy spends an amazing weekend with a girl and the next day goes away for a week. His first words when he comes back are: I am in love with you, I realized that while I was away from you.

    Sounds amazing, right? What is also amazing is that she wasn’t thinking too much about it, just remembered their weekend together with a dreamy smile.. so when she heard the words, she felt happy and surprised.

  381.  #381Femininewoman on February 18, 2012 at 8:23 am

    RE 357 Lilibee I was just watching Whitney Houston in Try It on My Own. I recommend you check out that song or video. It so reflects what you say here.

  382.  #382Femininewoman on February 18, 2012 at 8:24 am

    Lizka did you tell him how much contact you need from him?

  383.  #383LiliBee on February 18, 2012 at 8:24 am



    I think if you already told him last Sunday, it would kinda be like beating a dead dog repeating it again.

    You can keep feeling like this, and he can keep being this way bc you are always available for him when He wants, on His terms.

    If you can feel better being alone w yourself than accepting a last minute request from him…you can use a FM along the lines…
    “I don’t feel good waiting around, especially when I end up feeling disappointed, so I made plans for myself. I feel important and cherished when someone plans time for me.”
    If he says “why don’t you ask me for plans then?”
    You can say “I don’t feel good chasing after a man. I’m a girl, and girls like to feel desired and cherished”

  384.  #384Brenda on February 18, 2012 at 8:27 am

    Ryan just called me after I texted him asking if we could talk. I read him my script, and he said he thinks that’s the best thing to do if I’m getting hurt. He didn’t really share his feelings, just that he feels uncomfortable when I talk about this stuff. I said what I said as gently, softly, and slowly as I could.

    No matter what else, I see clearly that there is a very fragile, tender, caring man beneath all the schizophrenia, held tight in a prison.

    He said he didn’t contact me for Valentine’s Day because he didn’t want to give me mixed messages.

    I just set a boundary. Now comes the hard part: holding that boundary.

  385.  #385Turquoise on February 18, 2012 at 8:28 am

    Hi Sirens,

    Well… I sort of ended up with option 2, but with a twist. He called around 10 to say he was on his way, but wouldn’t make it in time to get the girls to the party, so he asked me to take them. At first I resisted, said maybe someone could meet me… and then he said,

    “C, they are going to be busy. Why can’t you take them?”

    I said, “I don’t really feel like driving the whole way up (40 min.), but guess I’ll call your mom and ask the name of the place so I can google it.”

    He said I didn’t need to google it, gave me very clear directions. Then I asked if he’d gotten a present or not. He said he hadn’t thought about it, but I could stop and get something, he’d pay me whatever it costs. The girls would feel embarrassed to show up at the party without a gift, so I’m doing it for them more than for him.

    So, I called his sister to ask what my niece would want, didn’t reach her and called his mom. Sirens, she sounds sooo bad, her voice kept cracking, she sounds weak, and she was at work til 1. I felt so bad, thinking I didn’t want to drive the whole way up, forgetting she has freaking cancer. I felt selfish and low. She was sweet on the phone, said she’d find out and call me back. She did, said A would love money, loves to shop, so we’ll stop and get a card, and some balloons or flowers, that is easy enough.

    I was wondering why he got such a late start, knowing what tie the party started, even if he’d left an hour earlier, he’d have easily made it. I was feeling uncomfortable about seeing his family, especially his sister, but after speaking with his mom and texting with his sister, I feel a lot better about it. Wonder if this is presenting itself for me to heal those bad feelings and get more connected with them again?

    He just called, is stuck in a bunch of traffic, so still sounds crabby. I do feel good though, it’s not bothering me as much as it normally would. In fact, not really bothering me at all. I feel bad for him he’s sitting in traffic, but he could have left earlier… was his choice.

    I feel so good my house is all clean. I took a long hot bath last night, so my muscles feel relaxed. I feel excited that I’ve lost 12 pounds total so far, 38 more to go to meet my goal weight, which is so doable! I feel relieved that things will be better with my inlaws. I feel healthy, for the first time in a week! I feel happy to see my friend later tonight and maybe my sister too. I feel like eating bar food and listening to a band. Hope they want that too!

    Ok, off to get them packed for the sleepover and get myself dressed. Plan to leave here in 45 min.

    Hugs to you all. Happy Saturday! Make it special 🙂

    Brenda, it will all be ok. You are doing great!

  386.  #386Luzydel on February 18, 2012 at 8:29 am

    Poem by Julia De Burgos…sort of like I feel right now; a battle between the external me and the internal me

    For you are garment and I essence;
    And the greatest abyss lies between the two.
    You are the cold-blooded puppet of social deceit,
    And I, the driving splendour of human truth.
    You, of courtesan hypocrisies…the honey; not I;
    Whose heart is revealed in my poems…all.
    You are like your world, selfish; not I;
    Who dares all to be what I truly am.
    You are merely the implacable, elegant lady;
    Not I; I am life, I am strength, I am woman.
    You belong to your husband, to your master; not I;
    I belong to no one, or to everyone, because to all,
    In wholesome feeling and thought, I give myself.
    You curl your locks and paint yourself, not I;
    I am curled by the wind; brightened by the sun.
    You are homebound, resigned, submissive,
    Confined to the whims of men; not I;
    I am Rocinante galloping recklessly
    Wandering through the boundaries of God’s justice.
    You are not in command of self; everyone rules you:
    You are ruled by your husband, your parents, relatives,
    The priest, the seamstress, theatre, club,
    The car, jewels, the banquet, champagne,
    Heaven and hell and… social hearsay.
    But not me, I am ruled by my heart alone,
    My sole thought; it is “I” who rules myself.
    You, aristocratic blossom; and I, the people’s blossom.
    You are well provided for, but are indebted to everyone,
    While I, my nothingness to no one owe.
    You, nailed to the stagnant ancestral dividend;
    And I, but one digit in the social cipher.
    We are the encroaching, inevitable duel to the death.
    When the multitude uncontrolled runs,
    The ashes of injustices, burnt, left behind,
    And when with the torch of the seven virtues,
    The throng to the seven sins gives chase,
    I will be against you and against all
    That is unjust and inhuman.
    Upholding the torch… I shall be among the throng.

  387.  #387Femininewoman on February 18, 2012 at 8:30 am

    Wildflower my humble opinion is that this man came into your life to remind you to trust your intuition. I would see if I could find some gratitude for him and send it energetically then move on to live my life.

  388.  #388Ella on February 18, 2012 at 8:32 am

    Wow, I am feeling a bit like a bottomless pit craving attenion from MWC (or anyone) today.

    And it seems like nothing he can do could ever fill it up…

    Ok, lets switch it.

    This is a stength because I like to feel connected and close and do fun things together.

    I appreciate all the fun things he creates for us to do together.

    And how can I top myself up?

    Well, I am sitting here on the sofa feeling cosy.

    I have just has salad and fish to eat.

    Outside is cold and windy so I feel cosy.

    I feel beautiful today and when I get ready for work in a min and brush up my make up I will do some strecthing too and maybe put on some music.

    So all good.

    Then in the car on the way to work I will turn up my music and maybe sing along, and I will drive through the country lanes.

  389.  #389Ella on February 18, 2012 at 8:35 am

    I love the way you plan stuff for us to do.

    It makes me feel really cherished and important.


  390.  #390Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 8:39 am

    322: Daria says:
    “wow annoying cd comes back with a bang!

    annoying cd: i wana fuc*k”

    LOL that’s what Recycled used to say to me! It used to turn me on, it was so raw and hot and sexy 🙂

  391.  #391Femininewoman on February 18, 2012 at 8:42 am

    Turq I believe he could have left at the time he did because he might not be fully well as yet? But it seems to me that you are too focused on that. Also I believe if you take the girls all the way it will make a lasting impression on him. I am sure he would want all his family on good terms. It could show him some of the change taking place in you.

  392.  #392Femininewoman on February 18, 2012 at 8:49 am

    Lizka I believe you should tell him how much contact you need. Find out from him about how much he thinks he is willing to give. Then between the two of you find a middle ground that both can be comfortable with and a plan how to work it out. He might not be willing to call you everyday. He has needs too and until he is willing to contact everyday he will not do it. Either that or he will give you want you want and then move back to what feels comfortable to him. You might be way ahead of him on the relationship timeline.

  393.  #393Brenda on February 18, 2012 at 8:49 am

    I had prepared this letter for Ryan to get my thoughts clear before we talked. I decided to email it to him, so he could re-read it and give him something to think about while we are apart:

    Dear Ryan, the beautiful, tender hearted man who I love with all my heart,

    I wrote this in preparation to talk to you, because I want to handle your tender heart as delicately as possible. I decided to send it to you, even tho I have said on the phone some of this here. I thought that way maybe reading my perceptions may help you in your journey out of your prison. And because I don’t want to hurt you, and I hope I haven’t.

    There are so many reasons I love you, and you have so many rich qualities that I adore. You are seeking God; you have genius-level intelligence; you have a tender, gentle, sensitive heart; you have emotional intelligence that I have learned from about how to relate to people; you are handsome, cute, classy, and I just love your long, silky hair. I have been in love with you for three years, and I have loved you as no woman ever loved a man.

    From the start, you had my complete attention. The more I knew you, the more I adored you. My nature is to be a one-man woman, and I would have died for you 3 years ago. I believe a healthy relationship is one where there is 100% giving and 100% giving, and I couldn’t give enough to you.

    At every turn, I felt deep frustration at my own shortcomings. I wanted to be perfect for you: slender, joyful, peaceful, debt-free, and socially smooth… But all I could do was work on myself as fast as I could, and I have been, for three solid years. I wanted to be my best self for you.

    After being deeply hurt, repeatedly, in 2009, I felt broken hearted, but I continued to love you. I held on to hope that you would find freedom, and that you would see how badly my heart had been broken. When you texted me, “I want you to avoid me until I get freedom”, I believed you wanted to treat me better in the future. When you told me that I didn’t know whether or not you cared if I was hurt, I believed you did care that I was hurt. So I gave you another chance.

    We reconnected in the summer of 2011, until my feelings multiplied exponentially and I tried to discuss our relationship with you. Then we reconnected on Christmas Eve 2011, the third anniversary of our first date, as I am sure you are aware. I felt deep hope that this time it would be different. I chose to put my trust in you once again, knowing that any reconnection was doomed if I didn’t give you my trust.

    I have learned, “If it feels good, keep doing it. If it doesn’t feel good, stop doing it.” For the most part, this past couple of months have felt good, although questionable (ignoring me on my birthday; leading me on with outrageous flirting and then saying you didn’t know better). But this past week, we are back to 2009, and it doesn’t feel good. After we connected in such a positive way last Friday and Saturday, I felt better than ever about our friendship.

    But this isn’t working for me. I feel completely confused. It feels weird not even being contacted on Valentine’s Day, even if we are just friends. It feels weird not being contacted hardly at all for a week after such a happy time with you. I have strong feelings for you, way above and beyond friendship. So I would feel best to stay out of contact for a little bit. What do you think?

    Ryan, here’s the thing: I believe the schizophrenia has well established mind control over YOU. And therefore you are allowing it to work thru you to establish mind control over ME. You can deny it all you want. You can tell me I’m delusional and I’m nuts. But you know and I know that you are trying to establish mind control over me. I will not have it. But I don’t want to see it happen with you, either, because I love you that much.

    Here’s what I think. I think that you were deeply hurt by a woman, or women, and that you developed a deep hatred and resentment for women. So you are taking it out on me, determined that no woman ever again will hurt you. Can you see how this is hurting you? Ryan, it is keeping you from the love of your life that you want! It is evil! It is sadistic!

    Once again, you have true love and you are throwing it away. You have a woman sitting here who loves you with all her heart. I am not going to put my life on hold anymore. I am looking to be a wife, and I am going to be dating like crazy, and I am not going to stop until I have a ring on my finger.

    I want to feel personally cherished and to enjoy a lot more together time with a man. I love myself and my happiness and future way beyond the possibility of a relationship and future together. My future is my happiness.

    I want you to have a happy future, too. And as long as the schizophrenia is taking up residence in your soul and sucking your life out of you, you cannot be happy. Please let Sue or Robb help you!! Please don’t let the schizophrenia control your mind!! You are too valuable! You are too beautiful to allow your personality to be destroyed in such a cruel way as it is with all this psychological pain. IT IS MIND CONTROL. Read about it online – guard yourself from it. I want to protect you, and yet I can’t. All I can do is pray for you and direct you to books and people that can protect you and help you.

    I will give you my music CDs as soon as I get them sorted. Please protect yourself! You are beautiful!

    With all my love,

  394.  #394Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 8:49 am

    Thanks Daria and Silver Moon for your nice words. 🙂

    Starla I met Recycled in 2008 about 6 months after my ToxicEx and I split up…I was in a very emotionally vulnerable place and feeling sad and lonely……

    Recycled and I (dated) were together off and on over the past few years, he is soo my ideal type and we have insanely great chemistry! He is easy to be around, makes me laugh, smells good, is fun, smart, but a liar. Over and over. 🙄

    So that’s the dealbreaker.

    He was married and didn’t tell me. 😯

    Divorce pending, but still, it was so deceptive. Last Summer when we were reconnecting, his divorce was still going on and I found out he was living with a woman (not his wife) and he brazenly lied/hid it from me.

    Just sooo many lies, but in the meantime, he was soo magnetic and really into me big time, we used to spend A LOT of time together and I really fell for him.

    I still feel sad when I think of him now. He also helped me out financially sometimes, he would give me money (without me asking) and buy me stuff and always always paid for our dates…and I always felt safe with him (he is a cop).

    Anyway, after I found out last Summer that he lived with the woman (who was supposedly just a roommate…hmmph) I told him I want no contact. I was fed up.

    Haven’t heard from him since September.

  395.  #395LiliBee on February 18, 2012 at 8:52 am



    I just watched it on Youtube with the lyrics.

    I instantly got a rush of goosebumps and tears in my eyes.
    I felt elated 🙂 (I hope that’s the right word).

  396.  #396Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 8:54 am

    Meanwhile, I’ve attracted other married men, but I sniff them out better now (intuition) and don’t give them any of my time or attention.

    Like GreenCD who kept talking to me at the coffee shop and asking me out,,,my third eye was tellingme something is up…and I asked him straight up if he is married and he said yes. 😯 OMG so I toldhim bye bye I don’t hang out with /spend time with/ go on dates with/ married men. He turned red and kept telling me how much he likes me and loves talking to me ect……I was never really interested in him at all in the first place. Buh bye!!!

    YAWN….(I think I literally yawned) and he left and I haven’t talked to him since. he had a weird mustache anyway like Hitler-ish. haha what a weirdo.

  397.  #397Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 8:55 am

    In summary….my instincts are sharper or maybe I’m just listening better….to myself

  398.  #398Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 8:57 am

    376 Memulo

    Wow thank you for telling me about this movie. It’s a beautiful story, I feel inspired and hopeful. xoxo

  399.  #399Femininewoman on February 18, 2012 at 8:57 am

    It really spoke to me too Lilibee

  400.  #400Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 8:58 am

    FW 378 –

    I told him I don’t feel good when I sleep with a man and don’t hear from him for several days after. He agreed…

  401.  #401Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 9:01 am

    Lili 379

    Thank you for the script. I love it a lot.

    I copied/pasted it in my phone and will use it when the time comes.


  402.  #402Femininewoman on February 18, 2012 at 9:02 am

    Yes Lizka and he contacted you 3 days in a row. 3 days. He might believe that is enough.

    In Reconnect Rori suggests that if a man wants commitment you tell him the terms of commitment. You need to see him 3 days during the week and with a lot of contact in between. I might be wrong but I don’t remember you suggesting that he asked for commitment or that you told him specifically how many days you need him to contact you. The way I see it is that he is trying but it is not enough for you. It seems you want him to contact you everyday.

  403.  #403Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 9:03 am

    331 Ella I agree that it becomes easier to lean back and I cringe when I think about times that I leaned forward and overfunctioned. Now I just lean back and put my boy hat on when I need to do stuff for ME. Not for a man. I see a friend of mine getting in major boy mode helping out a new CD and it’s hard to watch. But it reminds me how much I’ve learned, and how I don’t want to behave that way,a nd I feel grateful for being aware of the disntinction.

  404.  #404Femininewoman on February 18, 2012 at 9:04 am

    Lizka this is one thing I understand from a lot of coaches why men withdraw. They except us to go psycho after we have sex with them. They have learned that lesson from other women before they met us.

    The good thing about leaning back, especially in your mind is that when the guy comes back we don’t have any negativity built up in our heads to let them have it. Mainly because we were not thinking about what it means so much. Being okay with uncertainty can work in your favor sometimes.

  405.  #405Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 9:05 am

    I think 3 days is not that bad… He will most likely contact me this weekend… If he haven’t contact me after the weekend, then I’m gonna start worrying. 3 days is not that bad. He needs space, he was hanging out with his friends. Maybe even he needed all these women attention to realise he’s in love with me. Is that possible?

    Anyway I wish I could stay and chill on the blog but I have my hair appointment in 1.30 hour and I have to go take a shower and do my make up and dress. I want to feel super beautiful when I get out of there! 🙂

  406.  #406Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 9:09 am

    I want a man to contact me every day! I had that before with my serious relationships and I cannot imagine not having contact every day if I’m really involved with a guy!!

    I feel like it’s nice that they want to check on me to make sure I’m ok every day…what if I got in a wreck or got locked out of my house???

    hmmph…a time or two I needed help and called Recycled and he didn’t answer. Later he apologized but it was too late, I had gotten help elsewhere. Gawd.

  407.  #407Femininewoman on February 18, 2012 at 9:09 am

    Also Lizka you chose to sleep with him. I am sure he thinks you did it because you wanted to. Placing demands on him just because you slept with him….. Put yourself in his shoes and see how you would feel. Some guys think that you do that just to bribe them or control them. Is that what you want to communicate to him?

    I would not give him any script or say anything unless he wants to sleep with me next time. You can tell him you got ahead of yourself and little and want to take it slow because you don’t want to get all hormonally hooked to a man who has not committed. This is if sex comes up again. Without a commitment you are just dating and I would encourage you to keep it as dates. I believe that is where you are confusing yourself and going down a rabbit hole where you feel trapped.

  408.  #408Femininewoman on February 18, 2012 at 9:11 am

    Emerson I would check in with myself why I need that, especially if there is no commitment. A man will do that when he wants to commit not because a woman demands it of him.

  409.  #409Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 9:12 am

    Ella, regarding your comments/question about sugar and cakes…I think a little indulgence is fine. I personally LOVE cakes and cupcakes and cookies. I’m like Emerson the cookie monster nom nom…hahaha….

    But seriously that’s the bad part for me, I get bad sugar cravings and I’m in the process of changing my diet big time to get off of sugar!!

    I think a fruit smoothie is a great alternative treat! I make smoothies all the time in the morning (with just fruit and ice and a lil bit of soymilk) and love them!

  410.  #410Femininewoman on February 18, 2012 at 9:14 am

    Most of us don’t even connect with ourselves on a daily basis to take care of our own emotions or things in our own lives but we are requiring men to do that for us. I know I never did that until recently so I ask myself why do I want a man to disrupt his rhythm for me or if I can sometimes give myself the thing I am looking for from a man.

  411.  #411Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 9:14 am

    404 Thanks FW!
    I agree and I feel that I’d only want that if I’m in a committed relationship with a man, and I would not expect (or want) it otherwise….

  412.  #412Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 9:15 am

    406 FW

  413.  #413Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 9:16 am

    Thinkin about Spring…I want this dress

  414.  #414LiliBee on February 18, 2012 at 9:16 am


    FW, Lizka,

    My 2 cents: I feel it’s too soon to do the “contact frequency” talk. It hasn’t been long since he started coming around again, he hasn’t brought up wanting to be invested in the relationship yet.
    So to me, the “contact frequency” talk at this early stage would seem like wanting to trap him into being invested, controlling the outcome.
    He is allowed to feel free to invest or not.
    Freely wanting to invest would feel much more rewarding.

    It felt really good to me the “contact” talk you already had Lizka, regarding contact after intimacy. Bc it was perfect timing, it was “in the moment”.

    I would have the “contact frequency” talk only once he has shown he wants to be invested by making plans to see you Lizka.
    I feel at this point, the “making plans” FMs is more appropriate to this time and moment in the relationship.

    I feel icky at contradicting you FM, bc I highly value your input here.
    I feel arrogant contradicting someone I highly admire, like who do I think i am making her feel bad about what she’s saying.
    I really don’t want to make you feel bad, but I deeply believe what I’m saying and I care for Lizka alot.

    Please don’t let my opinion and feelings devalue your input, bc your are highly valuable to me here.

    I’m going to go out on a limb and not hide from myself here.

  415.  #415Femininewoman on February 18, 2012 at 9:24 am

    LiliBee your input is valuable. Only Lizka can make that decision and I am putting things out there for consideration. I believe sex is what is creating the confusion and should not have taken place immediately when he came back. Sex is sex and not for barter. I believe the best bet is to not bring up anything but just assume that any contact will be for a date. It should be handled as a date and kept outdoors. If he wants to go home then and only then can the talk be initiated, particularly if the pattern is always sex when we end up indoors. It is kind of okay to assume that is where things will end up going. However, I believe that looking at the reason why I would want intimacy is the best place to look and operate from that base.

  416.  #416Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 9:25 am

    I really feel like “going out” and dancing and drinking…I don’t have friends I can do that with right now. I feel sad about that. My friends have been drifting off to the distance because we are all doing different things…I’ve leaned forward with them to try and keep in touch and they are all too busy. 🙁
    Feeling sad about that and I love my sad feelings.

  417.  #417Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 9:50 am

    410 Lili

    No I decided anyway that I would not worry about the contact frequency anymore. We’re not there. And Last week too he didn’t contact me for 5 days than he spent part of the weekend with me. He’s like that and I should not worry about a few days with no contact.

    The only reason why I’m freaking out now about the no contact, it’s because of what my collegue said yesterday about him attracting girls like crazy in the bar but the two events are NOT necessary related and anyway it means absolutely nothing that he attracted girls. It doesn’t mean he left with a girl’s phone number or that he slept with her.

    I have to stop over analyzing. 3 days no contact is ok. And I understand that on Thursday and Friday he is out. So am I gonna do tonight 🙂

    But I’ll keep the script you suggested for the last minute plan. My weekend is all booked except for a little slot on Sunday night. But I set my own boundary that if he hasen’t call to make a plan when I come home after my hair appointment (so this is gonna be about 24 hours before tomorrow night), I will make my own plan for the night and not be available for him… Next time he’ll know that I need 24 hours notice.

  418.  #418Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 9:54 am

    Emerson 412

    It’s the story of my life too 🙁

    I so want to go out, drink and dance but my friends all have bf and they stay home and I keep leaning forward and they don’t move…

    Tonight, there’s a trance russian DJ at a club downtown. I want to go so badely. I asked one of my guy friend. He said “we can hang out but I don’t want to go at this club”…. so I guess we’re just gonna go to some boring bar and drink beer.

    I want to dress to impress and get a little drunk and dance all night and flirt. I don’t want to wear jeans and sit around a table and talk. Sometimes it’s fun, but not tonight. And I have no one to do that…

  419.  #419elle on February 18, 2012 at 10:03 am

    Brenda and Lizka, thinking a lot about you two today. I hope you both have a better and strong day.

    Brenda, I know you have been on a roller coaster for a long time with Ryan, but I truly believe that you are heading in the right direction. Once you take the focus off of him and put it with someone who will treat you wonderful, you will start to feel better, stronger, more self confident and like the goddess you are. Love yourself and keep telling yourself every time you feel weak that you are doing what is best for you. Write it down if you have to so that you can keep going back and reassuring yourself. Fight off the leaning forward urges. You can do this. Really you can.

  420.  #420Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 10:06 am

    LILIBEE says…
    “I want to dress to impress and get a little drunk and dance all night and flirt. I don’t want to wear jeans and sit around a table and talk.”

    Totally know what you mean!!!!!!!

    You know what, a few years back I used to go out by myself, and I ALWAYS met people! Guys and girls! If I met a guy I would always make up a story that I have to go find my friends or something or my friend is texting me and excuse myself…then go back and dance if I’m interested. That way I feel safe like they don’t think I’m out alone (not that I’m embarrassed about it, but for safety reasons I don’t want men to know I’m at a club alone).

    Girl….go out by yourself to that club!!

    I’ve had some of the best times out alone…and I may just take my own advice and do just that!!!!!!

  421.  #421Rori Raye on February 18, 2012 at 10:09 am

    ldrhourglass – I know this sounds hopeless, but I have seen SO many turnarounds in what, for my clients – is a CLASSIC situation. Just recently, I’ve seen a complete, total turnaround in less than 3 weeks. From fighting, my client feeling and doing obsession, whining, controlling, him creating devastating withdrawal – to lovebirds. It sounds ridiculous – but if a man is able to step up, and you do these tools – he will. If you do them, and really are determined to practice them 24/7 – and he DOESN’T step up – then you know you’ve done everything you can…and then we talk about serious measures. Sometimes a man isn’t able. Finding that out is a good thing. It may not feel good – but for your love life – knowing what’s really going on is always good. But you can’t know that he’s not able until you throw yourself into this method 1000%. Love, Rori

  422.  #422Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 10:09 am

    Hmm….I am thinking about how when I’m out alone, like a couple months ago I was at a bar waiting for a date with OceanCd (who turned out to be a dud) and I was all dressed up cute and sitting at a bar waterwheeling and doing I’m all that while I was waiting….just saying nothing and being there in the moment with a drink!

    And soo many guys talked to me and were friendly and chatty! It was interesting!

    I may just try it again…get dressed like I’m going on a date. It is good practice!

  423.  #423Daria on February 18, 2012 at 10:16 am

    Emerson – yeah thats dating yourself !

  424.  #424Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 10:17 am

    Thank you elle for carying.

    I’m doig better. On my way to the hair dresser and texting a few old friends to see if I can’t find someone to go to see this Dj playing tonight. I so want to do that.

    But it’s not lile I could go all by myself and pretend I’m waiting for a date like Emerson. It’s a crowded club, the dj wi be mixing intense trance music… Not really a place to CDate… I just want to get smashed and dance and have fun.

  425.  #425LiliBee on February 18, 2012 at 10:18 am


    I looove how you think FW. 🙂
    Throwing things out there and letting her decide.
    That’s the kinda real friendship that feels freeing and truly supportive, giving the person her own pride and selfworth.

  426.  #426Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 10:20 am

    Wahhhh my girl friend said yes about the club tonight!! Niiiiiiice! I think I’ll go buy a new dress when I come out from hairdresser!!

  427.  #427Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 10:28 am

    Hum Emerson, you might be right about goig clubbig alone… (just read your post…). Might try this sometimes. But it feels so scary. I am a little shy with people I don’t know and I tend to feel embarassed easily in that kind of situation…

  428.  #428Luzydel on February 18, 2012 at 10:37 am

    Cleaning My drawers! I can’t believe how much useless crap I have in those drawers….But I am also finding things I thought I lost and I am feeling Good.

    This works as a metaphor for me:
    My heart is like a drawer, I have a clutter inside of it right now, but I am cleaning it and throwing things that are no longer useful, and finding things I once thought I lost, or forgot I had. I am finding Myself…
    I realize that my place looked clean, but it really isn’t clean, When “S” used to come visit, I just hid all the stuff so he wouldn’t See the mess, actually I do this with all my visitors. That has to change!

  429.  #429Wildflower on February 18, 2012 at 10:41 am

    RE 384 yes FW i totally agree time to move on wiht my life. it’s so hard tho. he also used to talk about his “colleague” who slept with prostitutes. he talked about this man in the same way he talked about a man he knew who was married but would go to singles events pretending to be single (which is where i met him). after i talked to him about being married (and he finally confessed he was after initially lying) i saw a nasty side of him emerge. he passive aggressively “joked” about how he “missed hte legal prostitution” where he and i used to live. so now i suppose i’ll have to get STD testing 🙁 even tho the whole thing only lasted about three months and i figured it out and ended it asap it still feels really hard. i love me.

  430.  #430Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 10:46 am

    Lili an FW 425

    Totally agree with Lili on this one. 🙂


  431.  #431Daria on February 18, 2012 at 10:47 am

    ouch! some guy got off the phone cuz i didnt agree to call him and i feel all bad now

  432.  #432Daria on February 18, 2012 at 10:49 am

    Wildflower – wouldn’t you want to do STD testing anyways?

    i do after every new man i have sex with… if its without a condom…

  433.  #433Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 10:50 am


    That feels inspiring! I think I’ll find some times this week to clean up my walkin closet. Might find some very hidden secrets and throw away a lot of ugly stuff or things that doesn’t fit me anymore… 🙂

  434.  #434LiliBee on February 18, 2012 at 11:07 am


    Yeyeyyeyeyyy!!!! 😀

    I’m so excited for you Luzydel!!!!

    I did that last fall…decluttering my space while decluttering my heart and brain!
    It really got me on my way to connecting with myself and how I feel good about myself now!

    I’m so happyyyyyyyy for you taking care of you!

    I feel like being your cheerleader! Clap clap clap clap, yey yey, jump jump jump!
    Woohoo you rock girl!

  435.  #435Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 11:08 am

    420 sorry I got Lillibee and Lizka mixed up.
    Sorry lovelies 🙂 my bad

  436.  #436Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 11:14 am

    427 lizka
    I feel shy and nervous too when I’m by myself like that…and I get all flushed and tongue tied sometimes when a man approaches and talks to me…eeeek….

    but then I just laugh or smile and check in with how I feel…and I don’t answer questions directly if I don’t want to.

    I don’t have to!

    I can remain warm and inviting and not respond to “interview” questions from people that approach me unless I feel like it.

  437.  #437Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 11:17 am

    I can use words like
    oh wow i feel uncomfortable being asked that (but still smiling) and then just remain silent
    hmm I feel shy answering that questions
    hmm thanks, it feels good being asked that! I am from the city xyz….(if I feel like answering)
    I feel intrigued to hear more about you, please go on? (listen at level 2 while physically leaning back)

    I borrowed and tweeked these from Daria 🙂 🙂

  438.  #438Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 11:18 am

    51 april rose says:
    Rori gives these two questions specifically in Love Scripts. “is there something I should know?” “are you mad at me?”

    Thanks for posting this, it is helpful

  439.  #439Wildflower on February 18, 2012 at 11:29 am

    RE 432 DAria i guess so. i just feel like my odds are a little more increased. but i get what you’re saying. mostly i’m just feeling pist i guess.

  440.  #440Femininewoman on February 18, 2012 at 11:34 am

    Wildflower I don’t know how old you are but I encourage you to put your health first. No man is worth losing it or your life for. If I were you I would consider asking a man to do a test and let me know the result before sleeping with him. A man who is really interested in you as a person will bring the test results and show you.

  441.  #441Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 11:42 am


    I feel confused that you wanted to have karaoke and fun with Ryan (which to me is creating closeness, building memories and experiences together) and then planned to give your end it speech afterwards??

    I feel afraid that I’ll offend you, but I’m saying this because I think I may have behaved in the same way myself in the past….

    and this is what I see…..

    Hmm I wonder if you wanted to have that fun with him so when you gave your “end it” speech you were hoping Ryan would protest and say “noooo….don’t end it!!” …..since you were having so much fun together…like trying to sell yourself or convince him which makes me feel sad and feels manipulative…

    love and hugs to you and I don’t want to offend or upset you…but I know you’re a fun person and great heart and you deserve a great man…and I think you forget that Ryan is NOT the only man out there that will have mutual attraction with you…..

  442.  #442Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 11:46 am

    Sirens I have missed you…..!!!!!! I am off to enjoy my day starting with mani/pedi and get my tan on!!!!
    woot woot
    and I want these shoes

  443.  #443Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 11:51 am

    129 @ Silver Tongued Siren
    OMG I feel mortified that he is discussing other females intimate allergies with you….that he is sleeping with….ack it feels bad bad bad….

    He is NOT looking out for your feelings…I feel sad and like crying when I read your post because it reminded me of conversations with RecycledCD and how I’d get pulled into the same kind of discussions, I would lean forward (because I loved him) end up feeling ick ick ick….

  444.  #444Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 11:53 am

    108 STS
    omg he is competing with you..??
    I give you a lot of credit for getting ready with baby!!!
    I used to take care of ex’s baby and get ready for work at the same time and it was hard!!!!!
    I know !!!

  445.  #445Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 11:55 am

    Brenda I have to give you kudos for trying a meetup group!!! I feel impressed and inspired! I have joined a bunch of meetup groups, but have yet to go to one! I feel nervous and scared. So I have to hand it to you…that was brave.

  446.  #446LiliBee on February 18, 2012 at 11:55 am

    Just finished decluttering and cleaning my bathroom.
    It feels good to see it all shiny and clutter free.

    Some clutter I found…D’s toothbrush in my toothbrush holder…why am I hanging on to thaaat?
    Threw it out.
    Came accross a nifty gift box containing bubble bath, shower get and body butter.
    A gift from the guy I dated for 3 months prior to D.
    He was no2 of a string of highly insecure men where I felt trapped.
    Why am I hanging on to thaaat?
    Threw out the stuff but kept the box. It’s a stirdy compartmented storage box now.

    Break over. Off I go dusting and vacuuming.

  447.  #447Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 11:58 am

    363 Wildflower, sending hugs to you and yes I can say that my experience with RecycledCD was almost the same….in the end, I stopped contact but there was a lot of back and forth and I really fell for him and felt so hurt that he would lie to me. I have learned that it’s no use to try and figure it out, there is no answers…I just need to move on to the future and focus on me and new CDs that may be on the horizon…
    Time does heal…I’m sorry you went thru that.

  448.  #448Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    I loooooved my hair appointment. It’s a very chic salon in a trendy area of the city. There’re so fancy that they couldn’t even offer me a regular coffee, they only had lattes! And they have this cute chiwawa barking after the clients and playing in the hair on the floor.

    And she gave me a loooong and fabulous massage scalp massage. And it just felt so relaxing whe she was cutting my hair.

    And now I dedinitely look like a super star with my new hair and I’m so excited about goi g to show it off to the club tonight!!! I went to shop for a dress but I couldn’t find one that I liked so I decided to keep my money to buy some nice spring clothes in a few weeks instead of buying something I don’t really like. I have a sexy black dress at home so I will use my imagination to accesoirize it!

    It’s so warm outside and sunny an I am really enjoying walking and I’m totally focusing on myself. Just once in a whil, the thought that ATW haven’t call yet pops in my mind…

  449.  #449Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    I feel soooo excited about going to that club to see the russian dj. It’s gonna be totally my kind of crowd and a super good opportunity to attract new CDs. I want to have fun and enjoy my friends company but I also want to practice bein super sireny to every men who talk to me. Eyes contacts, feeling messages, leaning back position, listening at level 2…


  450.  #450Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    Yay….Lizka! Sounds wonderful 🙂

  451.  #451Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    FEELING MESSAGES!!! I HAVE to practice FMs tonight! Im French! And why not in Russian!

    I think I will write some script down before I go… Something about the music feels energic and my body feels… Hmmm electric? Lol heeeeelp!!!

  452.  #452Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Thank you Emerson! I wish you lived closer. Would have take you to that club with me 🙂

  453.  #453Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    452 Yes Lizka I wish that too!! I would sooo go with you…sounds like fun.
    I love your FM about body feeling electric…that sounds very very sireny and sexy!!!

  454.  #454Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Ah nice! I will definitly say my body feels electric tonight. It feels scary though… It’s not something “regular” to say…

  455.  #455Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    Haha they gonna think I’m on extasy ifnI saythat! Hehe funny 🙂

  456.  #456Brenda on February 18, 2012 at 12:36 pm


    Re 363- That is hard. I dated a deceiver in the 90s.

  457.  #457Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    Sorry for typos. Writting from my phone…

  458.  #458Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    I know when I’ve used scary feeling messages that don’t sound “regular” I feel nervous…like saying I feel disconnected….I feel intrigued….I feel scared….I feel happy…. I FEEL ELECTRIC……

    when I say FM I get nervous sometimes because I’m not sure what will happen but then the men I’ve said it to always react with interest and in a positive way!!

    It sends me into major feminine girly energy territory and the guys are so ga ga over me!!! Love it

  459.  #459Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    Oh I’ll definitly pop ou the electric FM tonight. They are strangers anyway so why would I care??

    I need more sexy sireny girly feeling messages…

    I think I will go listen to some of this DJ’s music on Youtube to get inspiration…

  460.  #460Brenda on February 18, 2012 at 12:52 pm


    Re 441- If u read my posts for the past 2-3 days, I’ve beenr asking how can I end it in person, so I can do it gently and sensitively. I couldn’t think of any other way but to accept !n invitation from him.

    Finally I realized I couldn’t handle it so I did it over the ph9ne.

  461.  #461Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    So that’s it Bremda? It’s done? Sorry if I missed some posts…

  462.  #462Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    I feel curious, how did he react?

  463.  #463Daria on February 18, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    im feeling so anxious!

    i think this is what this feeling is

  464.  #464Femininewoman on February 18, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    For those who weren’t watching the Whitney Houston funeral, when Kevin Costner spoke he made it clear that she had insecurities too. He said she would ask him if he thought she was enough. Seems she was concerned about being good enough and needed his reassurance. That really struck a chord with me and make me grateful about doing this work with both Rori and Dominique and getting to a place to tell myself that I am good enough.

  465.  #465Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    459 Lizka
    how about…
    “Yummm…I feel so exotic with this fancy drink!” (while holding a fun cocktail)

    “Mmm…I feel so good dancing with you!” (while dancing with a hot guy!)

    “Wow, I feel hot” (while sexily fanning yourself with your hands on the dancefloor)

    Hee hee…I am on a roll!!!
    Guys will be drooling over you!

  466.  #466Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    464 I am not watching it, I feel too sad. 🙁
    Poor Whitney 🙁
    LOOVVED her

  467.  #467Femininewoman on February 18, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    Ricky Minor spoke about Whitney’s physical attributes, her skin, how she dressed, how she wore a gown and how beautiful she was. But he emphasized that he loved her because of who she was not because of those obvious things that were attractive to men.

  468.  #468Emerson on February 18, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    I wonder what Susan would say about my dream in 317…or any other dream interpreters out there???

  469.  #469Femininewoman on February 18, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    This drink feels so good going down.
    This glass so shiny and cool against my hand.

  470.  #470Lizka on February 18, 2012 at 1:14 pm