Is He Cheating Or “Talking”…And How Much Does It Matter To You?

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questionmarkThe Question:

“Rori,
on the subject of the man who was chatting with other women on craigslist…haha this exact same thing happened to me… dating a man for 2 years… who would give me the world if he could…… loves me like no other man has…… then leaves his computer on one day to run out while I was there…

I hadn’t planned on snooping as I never felt I had reason to… so I just kinda browsed… and was devastated to see comments, and emails he had been sending… on chats,

Also, was playing with his phone that he left by mistake in my car one day… after I had dropped him off, it was a new touch phone …I don’t have one, so I was just playin around with it when I found some msgs, from him and whomever… back and forth…that was the second time, both times he denied it…,and both times I asked him how he would deny it when its right in front of his face with the proof?… he said it wasn’t anything… and that he felt I wasn’t paying enough attention to him … so he got it that way…

and then the other time said it was for a friend and they were just muckin around one night after drinks… but the last time when I found an old facebook msg, telling one of his old old gfs that he still loved her and always would, was so hurtful I found it hard to believe any thing he said after that…

he blamed me as we had not been able to spend valentines day together… due to I worked and was really tired and was late so we didn’t get together although we had the previous couple days spent them together, what I had hoped was that I would even get a rose or a friggen dinner… and I got piss all… so ya I figured…why be more tired at work when I wasn’t even gonna get a dinner out or nada…

I just got to the point where I didn’t trust him … as I have had a few relationships where this had happened men cheating and I just have a strong boundary when it comes to cheating in any way… our relationship has grown apart due to this…and yes its a trust issue…for me, but he doesn’t understand why…and the physical attention…for me… just kinda got weaker…

…so anyone have any advice. as now he has detached himself claiming that I didn’t give him what he needed… and I actually really love him but because of my past issues… trust is huge… am I wrong for feeling cheated…on … if its online… then where else… is how I look at it… like how do I know he hasn’t met any of them …

I don’t know its hard to get over broken trust… here’s the thing… he has really proved he loves me… and its complicated…its like a friggen book if I got into it all …,but yes we have struggled through some hard times together in the past 2 years…..to me that’s how real relationships are built… by working at things… but before he left I kinda detached myself in many ways…including not feeling real intimacy with him due to always wondering if he cheated besides… internet…although he swears he didn’t and loved me more then I know…

So what do I do… so many mixed feelings on this level, is it me over reacting or am I right to feel that if I give my heart to someone it will be broken and right now…emotionally after so many men have done this… I don’t think I could go through another hurt… so ya…the wall … that I let down…slowly has gone back up…i need some big time advice from anyone who has any opinions on how to move on or move in with him haha thanks, b”

My Answer:

b – For me, none of this means anything.

Some women would be fine with this level of detachment and withholding of information (if not outright lying) – and decide this man was worth it.

They’d be happy to work to cement the relationship by “giving him the attention he says he needs” while demanding total and complete honesty at all times – so relationship issues could be fixed BEFORE he went elsewhere.

Some women would conclude it just wasn’t worth it. They’d want a true-blue man who wouldn’t even THINK of going elsewhere before hammering out the issue “at home.”

The problem is – many women are bored silly with “true-blue” men.

They’d rather take their chances with a “bad boy” at this man’s level of “badness” (EXCEPT for the undying love comment to the ex gf – that might be a dealbreaker for many women).

So – where do YOU stand?

The information doesn’t mean anything. It’s just information for you to decide how to use.

There’s no one here except you and him.

It’s YOUR life.

How do you want to be IN it?

Love, Rori

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155 Comments

  1.  #1Femininewoman on December 19, 2013 at 8:05 am

    hmph



  2.  #2Femininewoman on December 19, 2013 at 8:09 am

    “although he swears he didn’t and loved me more then I know”

    I can believe this statement but unfortunately I triggers memories of “Shaggy” and other guys who swear even if their women caught them on top of another woman they would lie and deny that anything happened between them. This has always been one of my challenges.



  3.  #3Lisa on December 19, 2013 at 8:27 am

    @FW I struggle with this too!

    actions are what I look at and not so much the words… “although he swears he didn’t and loved me more then I know”

    I agree …. b/c to me someone swearing they didn’t is a reason to look deeper… love has nothing to do with it.. people love deeply and still make mistakes..still cheat at any level.

    and yes, it is proven that men do lie and deny when they know that if they tell the truth the woman will leave or get angry. Actually and I’m not a man bash-er here, this is proven fact 99% of men will lie in these situations.

    I trust men that I’m with until they give me a sign to be aware and at that point, I pay attention to, the actions.. not the words… same with anyone else in my life. It isn’t about mis-trust. It’s about paying attention to reality. I think the key is to trust that gut feeling! Work though my triggers and then still pay attention to the actions and see how different it feels with a clean slate. And then decide what that means for me…

    True blue is attractive to me! The only bad guy I want is one that is adventurous and bad in bed with me… other than that… it is a turn off…

    great topic!

    OXOXO



  4.  #4Kyla on December 19, 2013 at 8:40 am

    All of these actions are in deal breaker territory for me. I want to be his source of affection, if not then I’m outta there. I feel ok with him having female friends, ones he knew before me, that feels different though. Any other woman is a deal breaker and I’ve always expressed this honestly and passionately if the subject comes up.

    I wonder about a lack of depth and connection, a lot of unspoken anger seems to be underneath.. maybe a disconnect to explore.. I would want to take the opportunity to see if there were places I was holding back my feelings, affection I was withholding and what I need from relationship to open more fully so that I can learn this lesson and create a deeper connection with the next man.



  5.  #5Kyla on December 19, 2013 at 8:49 am

    Feeling so triggered today. Been hearing “there are no good men left, if they were a catch they’d have been snapped up by now” icky lacking belief comments that are bugging me. Ahhh! That feels so judgy and less than. Do I fear this is true? About me too? I feel sleepy and grumpy and need some nice fresh air to clear my head.



  6.  #6Indigo on December 19, 2013 at 8:58 am

    For me personally, no.

    Deep down I would have serious questions about myself if I was having to drag a man kicking and screaming into fidelity with me.

    Deep down, I know I don’t want a man badly enough to have a relationship of such low quality. It would reflect dismally on my opinion of myself.

    I would rather wait, years if need be, than slog through this.



  7.  #7Corin on December 19, 2013 at 11:03 am

    I’ve never found out a man was cheating on me yet. If I did it would all depend on context. If we were married several years and he was admitting the reasons why he cheated then yes I would want to work at that. If we weren’t married then I really hope I would walk away without even discussing or questioning it



  8.  #8Lisa on December 19, 2013 at 11:23 am

    I also think that some people haven’t taken the time to really know themselves enough to know if they are really capable of monogamy….. and since polyamory is somewhat new, most people don’t even entertain the fact that they indeed might not be able to be monogamous . In that case ( and even in talking with married men) they feel they can have the cake and eat it too, just to make sure they are not caught.

    so this is where clear communication is important being clear what is cheating and what is not. flirting is not cheating to me as long as it is innocent, but if he has the intent on it turning into sex or kissing or anything of that nature, that is cheating.. circle dating is not cheating to me… however, talking to women online feels icky and though I totally agree with “sex at dawn” that men need variety… it’s how they get it that matters… opening a door for an attractive women is ok, smiling and saying small talk is fine, but talking about getting together for coffee in hopes that sex will happen is totally not circle dating to me… that is putting the radar out for sex…

    it is a fine line for sure… but I’m more liberal than the average woman… I understand men are visual and love to look and fantasize, they need it, and they need variety… I can’t feel good about denying his innate needs… but he has to be totally honest with me and lying by omission is lying… and trust in paramount with me…

    I look at other women, I look at men and I get all goofy inside sometimes when I do, I’m not going to bash him for doing what I do…

    somehow this story rings in a different tone to me than harmless circle dating…

    but it’s like Rori said does it work for you…. it is totally a personal decision…

    I feel sooo good today about not being with “S” anymore! It feels liberating, almost as if I’ve dropped the old patterns and I’m new! New in a new way of picking men… dropping the old crap.

    I’m so proud of me, for listening to what makes ME happy!

    I haven’t heard from him…. I’d thought he would have ask about the MRI and he hasn’t…. so I’m so clear now I don’t even want friendship…. good to know!

    I have the night free now and a sitter, I’m excited to see what fun I can have… on my own….

    Here’s to being happier on my own loving me, than to be with someone I’m not feeling it for!!! Cheers!

    OXOXO



  9.  #9prplpsn28 on December 19, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    I agree with Indigo (#6) on this one.



  10.  #10Liquid Light on December 19, 2013 at 12:52 pm

    Me too. I would definitely NOT be okay with behavior like this. YUCK!!!



  11.  #11Femininewoman on December 19, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    Corin I believe it also has a lot to do with a man’s age. Some as Lisa says don’t know themselves yet, what they want out of life and have not explored enough relationships (cdate) to know what they need in a relationship. A younger man who is not yet at a place where he wants to settle down is the type who I would expect to be prone to cheating and lying. It is just a path on many of their growth. Unfortunately many broken hearts are left in their path and I do believe because it is partially because we women are not willing to allow ourselves the option to cdate until we find internally that place of feeling at home with a special man. We allow our hormones, desperation, societal norms and peer pressure to drive our decisions and actions instead.



  12.  #12Femininewoman on December 19, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    Lisa I am not surprised about him not asking. Many men are pressured/taught that when they walk away not to look back. Their egos also stop them in their tracks. His mind might very well be in you and that MRI, we don’t know, but the sting of your rejection could be overpowering that curiosity.



  13.  #13CurvySiren10 on December 19, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    Agree with Indigo too. If ‘fidelity’ isn’t something that they willingly and fully desire, no thanks…

    Indigo~ I feel happy reading your update on the date with C. Maybe not your man, but a nice diversion for now as you heal… I feel extremely thrilled that he’s treating you well and you’re accepting that care/affection.

    xoxo



  14.  #14Femininewoman on December 19, 2013 at 1:46 pm

    I just realized that a woman that a woman in a relationship, especially a married woman who had to forgive a man for infidelity can have great power in that relationship. If that man realized his folly and begged for forgiveness he might be the very best version of himself as a result of the experience. Life takes us down many different paths. Trust is not easily rebuilt. Yet living in the land “never” have had many go to a grave with unrealized dreams.



  15.  #15Cris on December 19, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    I think there was a similar post some time ago… too many cases of on-line cheating… I don’t know what I’d do in her case…



  16.  #16Femininewoman on December 19, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    “I just got to the point where I didn’t trust him”

    Without trust I don’t believe there is a foundation to build on.



  17.  #17Liquid Light on December 19, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    Regarding “Never” and its absoluteness. Though I get your point, FW, I also think that if we are “never” in our minds and hearts than that likely translates into our vibe so that the guy knows on a gut level that cheating will never be tolerated. If we are “maybe” in our minds and hearts, then that could be a vibe that the guy senses and he might on some unspoken level feel that cheating might be OK and he might try to get by with it. I think men want women who are “nevers”. I suspect this woman in the post was a “maybe” vibe. Just a hunch.



  18.  #18Corin on December 19, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    Feminine woman, yes quite probably a function of maturity. I’ve only ever dated men older than me so hopefully bypassed that stage!



  19.  #19Amber on December 19, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    Hello Sirens!
    I wonder, if B stepped back and really went into a feminine, receiving place, would this man step forward?
    What do you think?
    Cheers, Amber



  20.  #20Kyla on December 19, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    Fireman finally calls and we had a great conversation and at one point he asks if he hears a kid in the background and we continue to talk for another 10 minutes (him leading the whole time) and at the end he says so I’ve enjoyed talking to you but I completely missed that you have kids on your profile and thats too much responsibility for me bla bla bla so I hope you understand what I’m saying, see ya. Grrrr I’m feeling so annoyed and hot cheeks and frowny face.. what a waste of time.
    At least I got phone practice and over my discomfort with calls before meets.



  21.  #21Amber on December 19, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    ((Kyla))
    Grrr… that’s what the profile is for, right?
    On the other hand if he was so stunned by your beauty he missed it, that’s a compliment, lol.



  22.  #22Kyla on December 19, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    Thank you Amber xo



  23.  #23Daria on December 19, 2013 at 6:37 pm

    i finally texted sexy neighbor to ask him for help fixing my car light switch (he offered before abd I knew no one else)

    turns out he says he had lost his phone and no longer had my number!!!!!

    omg its been a month and a half since I got here and talked to him

    I thought he was uninterested!

    wow leaned back daria!

    n now I feel scared of leaning back



  24.  #24Cupcake on December 19, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    Amber- #19-
    I was wondering the same thing. Chances are he’s just a “collector” who likes to know he has a lot of women in his back pocket. But maybe there’s a dynamic where he needs to be challenged by the pursuit, and she’s on top of him, pursuing. (Looking at phone, reading email…Hey- if he were my man, I’d be doing that too! But maybe there’s a bigger picture here where she can change the way she shows up in the relationship.

    Doubt it, though. I knew a man once who was just addicted to the thrill of the chase. I had to do business with him and he tried to seduce me. I became friends (not close, but friendly) with his wife, and felt bad that I never told her. Then two years later she called me and told me she’d gone though his email and counted 116 women in 22 months that he’d been sneaking around with– and as far as she could tell from reading the email, I was the ONLY woman who told him, “Thanks, but no thanks. I don’t mow other girls’ lawns.” And that was before I was friends with his wife, too.

    Anyway- they divorced. But she had no clue, and he always appeared to be completely devoted to her.

    Collectors. Addicts. It’s an insidious thing.



  25.  #25Cupcake on December 19, 2013 at 7:24 pm

    Kyla #20

    Break out the champagne! That Fireman just saved you buckets of time and trouble!!

    Whooo– hooo!! One man closer to your true love!!!

    🙂

    Cupcake



  26.  #26Cupcake on December 19, 2013 at 7:49 pm

    Sirens-

    I have good news and bad news. The best part of the good news is there’s more good news than there is bad news.

    Bad news: I absolutely, definitely MUST put my profile back up on OKStupid. I took it down last week because the men on that site made me feel depressed. There are better men in this city- just not on that site. It’s harder to get the date arranged in real life though, in case you haven’t noticed. However, I promised myself today that I will go on as many dates as possible as soon as I get back here after Christmas at my mom’s.

    So, OKCupid is back in my life– that is the bad news.

    The good news is that I have to commit myself to the Circular Dating because Lord Voldemort is back too. At least– it seems like he is.

    On the other thread I posted that in a tearful state last night, I’d texted him and the received back a very polite, short text this morning. It might as well have said “GAME OVER.” Or so I thought!

    Later, as I was getting read for my interview, I got two long texts from him. He apologized for the short text earlier and explained that his shop was very busy with holiday shoppers. (Oh. Right. He owns a shop. And it’s the week before Christmas. So it was morning for me, and the middle of the workday for him.) So he had just returned home from work and wanted to let me know that the weeks of silence had been because he needed to take so no contact time to think about our situation. (He was referring to an earlier conversation about his coming back here for another visit.)

    He did not comment further on that. However, he then wrote “I don’t want you ever to disappear. There feels like there is a bond between us that should never need to be broken.”

    This is not a guy who says stuff like this lightly.

    So back I go to Circular Dating because as Rori pointed out so beautifully in the last post, it doesn’t matter what he says. It matters what he does. If he comes back to see me, that would feel wonderful. I’ll take it as it comes, though. For me, it’s just feels like a huge weight off my chest because I’ve been saying this whole time I haven’t heard from him– and you, dear Sirens, have read it many times, “I just can’t believe he isn’t missing me. I just can’t believe he doesn’t want to be talking to me. WTF!??!!??”

    He texted chatty little things a bit longer after that, and then I went to my job interview. h

    And that’s more good news! (I think!) It seemed to go really well. I was the first candidate, so you never know– maybe by the time the 4th one strolled through, the CEO had forgotten me. But he seemed to really like me, and he asked if I could start right away, and when I say yes his eyes got really big like a kid who just got told he’s going to Disneyland. It was weird. The guy is a dynamo– self-made millionaire, only 36 years old (and yes, happily married- Google knows all!) – total powerhouse of a guy, but I leaned back and talked in feeling messages and he seemed a little nervous, like HE was trying to impress ME. Which is a weird role reversal for a job interview!

    There wasn’t any sexual chemistry or anything. I think I just felt confident because I know I can do the job. We shall see. He said he’ll call me on Monday either way.

    So keep your fingers crossed for me. It would be a REALLY REALLY COOL job! And I’d have my own office in a being just now gut-renovated historic building in the coolest part of a very cool city, and enough money to actually tuck some away at the end of the month, instead of living paycheck to paycheck and hoping I could keep my heat on for another few days like last year.

    No one has ever accused me of writing short posts on this blog, have they? Maybe in 2014, I will do them all in Haiku.

    I second Amber in saying that you women have been life-savers to me the past couple weeks. Big smooches to you all.

    Cupcake



  27.  #27Cupcake on December 19, 2013 at 7:57 pm

    Daria #23

    I have done that too! I met a guy with whom it was like “the thunderbolt.” It felt crazy intense. And then he stopped calling for a month. I too leaned back, cried every day– I think that’s when I first found Rori, as a matter of fact.

    After a month, we ran into each other in town and I have never seen anyone get from inside a truck to across a street so fast in my entire life. He teleported.

    Turned out that while fishing he’d dropped his phone in a lake. He kept saying, “Why didn’t you call me? I kept thinking you’d call.”

    So I had a lot of tearful nights wondering why he’d gone radio silent, but boy did the leaning back make my stock go up when we reconnected!



  28.  #28Kyla on December 19, 2013 at 8:18 pm

    Aw cupcake thank you. I feel so happy for you and well done on your interview!

    “boy did the leaning back make my stock go up when we reconnected!” I love this!



  29.  #29Amber on December 19, 2013 at 8:24 pm

    Congrats Cupcake-26, on all levels! I don’t think it’s a bad thing that LV has returned to your life, as long as he’s kept on the CDing wheel with a ton of other men. Hey, you deserve a ton of men all falling at your feet! I feel the same about (T) and your story gives me hope, so thank you
    Also Congrats on a great job interview. I crossed my fingers for you every time i thought of you today, so i hope you felt my positive vibes.
    I’m on match, not OKC but i have noticed that it’s the most awkward way to meet people i’ve ever tried. You know what? I’ve made that the first line of every e-mail i’ve returned and it really breaks the ice!
    I’m committed to DATING right now, and practicing leaning back, etc, just as you are so keep sharing your stories, i’ll share mine and the rest of the ladies can have a good long laugh at our trials and tribulations. Good luck!



  30.  #30Femininewoman on December 19, 2013 at 8:46 pm

    Zara I am missing your energy here



  31.  #31Kyla on December 19, 2013 at 9:02 pm

    Waste of time, yes, that’s how I was looking at R. There’s more to it than this dismissive anger. Triggered by men all day and then a Christmas present from R arrives in the mail tonight. I have heard nothing since I asked him to go 6 weeks ago and all this anger came rising up and it took several riffs before I could let go the wanting to tear him apart.
    I’m uncovering a lot of icky stuff and that’s theoretically good, right? Sure, maybe, well yes better than numb and anxious. Lots of really yucky feelings being triggered by all these men this week showing me where I really need to love on me. I get it you can stop sending them now!!!! Oh but it feels like sinking into sticky mud, surrounded by croaky toads, my energy is way low. Feeling of disgust and rage is too strong to allow the underlying despair to shed tears. I feel overwhelmed with this wound and its layers feel really old, stuff I just can’t remember but the feelings are sadly familiar. Ok I know I’m ok even though I can’t shake this as easily as I imagined. My little girl wants to be snuggled in bed now and I can do that.



  32.  #32Millie on December 19, 2013 at 9:52 pm

    “It’s your life, how do YOU want to be IN it?”
    This is an amazing question!!!!! I love it because you can’t change other people or control what happens in life, you only have control over what you choose to do and tolerate! I wish I could tattoo this somewhere….so next time I am faced with a challenging situation I can remember to ask myself that. It’s really a simple, common sense question, that gets drowned in the emotional sea and seeing only what we want things to be rather than what they are.

    BTW Shannon–I love your STOP post last thread! I actually used it today and it felt Soooo much better to think of my mind as a beautiful sanctuary instead of the torture chamber it is most of the time.



  33.  #33Millie on December 19, 2013 at 10:04 pm

    So–interestingly, I’ve been on the opposite side of the writer’s problem. I have been the “other woman” that a man who has a girlfriend texted and flirted with. I consider him a friend I flirt with and have NO intentions with. He confides his relationship problems with me, basically they are as this man states–he doesn’t get enough attention, he doesn’t get enough sex, and his gf doesn’t flirt with him. He told me I fulfill that void of flirting. All of this doesn’t really matter to much to me, seeing as for me…this is all just “fun.” I have no investment or intentions. He’s a good friend when I need him to be. However, it had come to my attention recently that his gf was jealous of me! That he’d been sneaking around texting me and people had started to notice how we would go places together and flirt and that he comments on all my facebook posts. I started to feel like….wow…this is kind of serious! I felt bad that I had played catalyst in hurting his gf. I would never want to hurt another woman that way, especially if I don’t even want her man! I also see that he is looking for solutions elswhere instead of really dealing with them with her. I see how I have allowed him to be a “boy” instead of being a man. So…as a result, I told him our relationship needed to change and that I value his friendship but the flirting needs to come down a lot. It is interesting though being on the other side of it because I can see how this male friend of mine has NO intentions with me and his gf has nothing to worry about physically, but at the same time he is not fully present in his own relationship. He’s escaping. And if I were her, that would worry me.

    I agree with Rori that “true blue” men can be boring. But at the same time, I’m wondering if they can offer a different kind of excitement. Can stability be exciting? Can consistency be exciting? Can the idea of not having to do a thing and feel loved be exciting? It is to me! The idea of conquering a bad boy, being the one HE chooses doesn’t sound so exciting to me anymore….it sounds like work. It sounds like short-lived. It sounds like, what do I have to do to impress you? and you know what….I’m tired of that game. I am impressive. I’m wondering if a man that wants women to be challenging really knows who he is? Once he gains her love, then what? The challenge is over?

    I want authentic relationships in my life, not relationships based on games.



  34.  #34Millie on December 19, 2013 at 10:07 pm

    Btw–something AMAZING happened at work!
    We had employee reviews and I got a great review!
    It felt SO good to hear my boss say that she feels lucky to have me! And I got a raise yippee!!!! She says I have a great personality and am articulate and she sees my potential! One of the best feelings in the world is feeling you are good at what you do and that others believe in you and want to invest in you! Pretty f*cking elated!



  35.  #35Amber on December 19, 2013 at 10:35 pm

    ((Millie))-34
    Congratlations!!
    Feeling appreciated at work is the best!!



  36.  #36Epiphyllum on December 20, 2013 at 12:06 am

    Zara

    refer to #30 Femininewoman

    I too miss your wisdom & insight !



  37.  #37sami on December 20, 2013 at 1:56 am

    Hi Sirens

    I am happily married to a wonderful completely devoted “true blue man” and I can tell you that I have been through this exact situation before during our engagement period. Lessons I learn´t:

    1. Men know what they are doing!! They are not clueless. My husband confessed to me that he wanted to see if this was OK for me since he wanted it (it feels good of course!) but if I would not tolerate it, he would give up his female friends (mild flirting ones) completely. And he did.. completely!

    2. Clear boundaries are needed. I agree that there is a “never” vibe and there is a “maybe” vibe that a woman throws cause she somewhere realizes that she does it herself(mild flirting with other men!). While I circular date with the world and myself as a married woman, I do not deliberately seek out eye contact anymore with other men or give them a feeling that anything is possible. Hence Im not in a maybe zone ever and I do not feel good if my man would be there either and he knows this.

    3. A heart to heart without blaming him is always the way to go. If your man can hear out your feelings and be inspired to make it better for u, you have love that´s worth sticking to. If he dismisses, you too should reconsider.

    As with my husband, till today we discuss these dynamics when we attend parties etc and we are very honest about it. He laughs and confesses how this woman was trying to seduce him etc.

    What saddens me, somehow, is that there are so many many women out there without respect for other womens´relationships. Married men have definitely tried to flirt with me etc but I always remind them that they are married and they should step back and think how this would make their wife feel! This was way back when I wasn´t married myself.

    Sadly, we are living in a world where men are becoming more and more passive and women more and more aggressive and leaning forward and hence more women come at my husband than men coming at me !! This is the dynamic almost at every party…. And its sad and I believe that as intimate, loving partners we have to be consistent / persistent at sharing our discomfort when things with other women transpire. I agree different women have different levels of being liberal..but as you may see, I want to be the sole point of attention/affection of my husband and from how I am seeing this develop, my husband was inside his heart, yearning for such a woman who treats herself like this to start with.

    This is my favourite topic as it was the “core” issue that came between my engagement and marriage and I completely put my foot down on it. it was a non negotiable for me. and after normal resistance, which would come from even the best of men since at some level you want them to step up even more as men, he agreed to respecting the boundaries we set(no new private female friends etc, no contact to exes) and his actions match his words well.

    Love to all. If it feels right to you, its ok. if not, say it and step out.



  38.  #38Veronica on December 20, 2013 at 4:38 am

    Hm I’m feeling really peeved that this man has done so little – ‘where’s his ownership of the relationship?’ is what I keep thinking. Does a man who adores the goddess in his life get busy lying to her about people he’s chatting to? And if she got into her goddess self would he even be able to handle it? Part of me thinks he’ll just get frightened and run away.

    This morning I was thinking how a date is usually defined by the phrase ‘he pays’ and how for me that seems so bizarre, not because I don’t want men to pay for dates, but because for me a date that I would consider real is measured by how I feel. I like having this to explore.



  39.  #39Corin on December 20, 2013 at 5:04 am

    Today I’ve been feeling caught up in emotions of desperation, self loathing, disillusionment, boredom, jealousy and really anything that feels like my life is rubbish, not enough and inadequate compared to others. I’m finding it hard accepting that previous relationships didn’t work because the man really wasn’t that keen on me, without going into these self loathing feelings. I guess it’s these very self loathing feelings that lead to the men not feeling that sure about me anyway. Someone on here said we can’t expect anyone else to love us more than we love ourselves. That really rings true for me, for me to get the love and commitment is crave, I need to give myself that love and commitment first. That feels an overwhelming task sometimes though.

    Im trying to use feelings of jealousy as a positive prompt to make my life better. If I feel jealous or low about something I’m telling myself ‘right, you can have that too if you want, what’s the first step in achieving it.’. That feels much better.



  40.  #40Dominique on December 20, 2013 at 6:48 am

    Cupcake – 26 – ALL of this sounds awesome. YAY you!!!

    xxoo



  41.  #41Dominique on December 20, 2013 at 6:57 am

    Millie – 33 – I love this. For more on this –

    http://sexandheart.com/practicing-openness/

    xxoo



  42.  #42BeLoved on December 20, 2013 at 6:57 am

    True Blue…sounds soo yummy and delicious!
    It makes me feel warm and happy inside, brings a tear to my eye even, thinking of my friend S and her partner J. I told her a long time ago that J is “True Blue”. He built her a pimped out birthing tub, all heated and lit with rope lights, so she could birth at home. He also built a fabric trapeze kind of thing for her like aerial dancers use, for her to use while she was in labor to swing and relax on.

    When the baby’s diaper needs changing, he just comes and sits with her, talking to the baby and keeping him distracted while she changes the diaper because otherwise he is a squirmy handful that won’t stay still. She doesn’t have to ask, he just does it. They operate like a well-oiled machine.
    He gets up with the baby in the morning and plays and plays with him until it’s time to go to work, he built some super pimped-out garden beds for her and is always finding some way to make her life better and more awesome 🙂

    True blue.
    Yes! Yum yum.

    I am interested in true partnership and intimacy and closeness.
    The guy from this post isn’t capable of that, it wouldn’t be enough for me. It would make me feel crazy and uncertain and unbalanced and paranoid. It feels icky just reading about it. I see someone sort of like the Wizard of Oz, all smoke and illusion but there is a man behind the curtain who is desperately afraid of what he and others might see and feel if he gave up his personas.



  43.  #43Dominique on December 20, 2013 at 6:57 am


  44.  #44Lisa on December 20, 2013 at 8:44 am

    @Feminine woman #12 but I didn’t reject him. I agree with what you said… but he might have thought I rejected him, when all I was doing was leaning back…when he didn’t call me when he said he would, I was on the phone the next night when he did call and I didn’t call him back at 11p so I called him as soon as I could the next day…

    But he might have felt rejected when he left on Sunday morning… who knows…??? I might not ever know!

    I love him, but I’m not in love with him…and even if I was, I’d still move on… I don’t want to be with a man that wants me to be the source of his income and I don’t want to be with a man that is so lazy that planning time with me is exhausting…I’m so clear now that I need to be with a man that sincerely wants to hear my stories, my life, not someone that is aloof….. so I’m good that things just went away with him….

    You are correct, he might just be thinking about me…. who knows!

    I went to yoga class last night…I had a sitter already and decided to date myself… 1.5 hrs of yoga… felt good but there was some resistance to stay, I noticed… and I’ve learned to sit with resistance and allow…and then tears came…

    These men that I’ve dated… seem to just be on a high with me… my looks, my laugh, my sexiness, my walk, my eyes and you know what…. it doesn’t feel that great! anymore… I’d rather be with a man that just likes ME… wants to really know me… and I also realized that even though these men really want me… they aren’t as excited about seeing me…. and thought I know it isn’t me, it’s their personality… ( some people just don’t get excited) I really would love to be in a relationship that, he is excited about me!!!…as I am about him;

    it made me sad… wanting to cry in yoga last night…

    Sex with “S” was wonderful for the most part… there were somethings that felt weird… and I listened to that… and there were times during lovemaking that I had tears roll down… not out of sadness… it just felt so good down to my bones…. BUT that is NO reason to stay in a obviously not good for me relationship….

    I miss that…. connection with him…

    and I have work to do on me… slivers of “I’m not good enough” still hanging around….

    No one will want me… was my last piece of work… it was good… I really was able to find my “I’m afraid of being hurt” “I’m afraid of being vulnerable” “I’m afraid of being loved for who I really am” not just the cute,sexy,petite,beautiful,giggly woman, but all of me… even the awkward, clumsy, and feisty parts…

    @Daria good to see you here again

    @ Elsie I wish you all the happiness and love this holiday season! I’m so happy for you! <3

    OXOXOX



  45.  #45Indigo on December 20, 2013 at 8:54 am

    Corin 38,

    Why go there? Why equate someone not wanting to be with you with your worth?

    The two really have nothing to do with each other.

    Relationships don’t work out for all sorts of reasons and, whilst I try not to delude myself, I try to never go to the possibility that feels the worst. I try my best to take something from it that could make me better somehow, and to use it as an opportunity to practice getting on my own side.

    Most relationships at most times are not meant to work out… it would be pretty silly to view that then as proof that we’re not good enough (I’m not calling you silly, I’ve had the same thoughts you’re having 🙂 ). It’s just life. It would be great if you could use those thoughts as fuel to love on yourself extra hard.

    xx



  46.  #46Indigo on December 20, 2013 at 10:52 am

    I feel like I am entering a chrysalis phase of my life… from which I will emerge in time a beautiful butterfly, as beautiful in the ways that are meaningful to me as anything I could imagine.

    I almost feel I have to enter a phase of hibernation – of peace and tranquility and contentment. I will still be challenged, but not hurt or broken. I feel like I will grow and have my eyes opened. I feel like it will take a few years, but that I will have the relationship of my dreams.



  47.  #47Dominique on December 20, 2013 at 11:16 am

    Indigo – 45, 46 – <3

    xxoo



  48.  #48Lisa on December 20, 2013 at 11:32 am

    I feel tired and sore and emotional…. does that constitute lazy? I’m trying to get things done, get the energy and gumption to get more done, and yet part of every bit of my body is sore, and tired and I’m soooo sleepy… yoga ( after a long while from class) seems to bring me to a place of taking care of me, not pushing me, not over functioning, and rest… and yet that doesn’t get things done… I struggle…

    Is taking care of my weary body lazy? Is losing tons of sleep and now feeling so sleepy being lazy? I’m on the fence about it… trying to turn it around…

    OXOXO



  49.  #49Femininewoman on December 20, 2013 at 12:49 pm

    ((((((((((Lisa)))))))))))))))))



  50.  #50Tereana on December 20, 2013 at 12:49 pm

    Oops, I just poured my little heart out on the large thread, before realizing, of course, there’s a new post up.

    Shannon – I LOVE what you wrote in 226 from the last thread! That was so good! Very well put.

    And cupcake, I believe I missed something, who is Lord Voldemort that you keep referencing? (I know from Harry Potter, obviously, but for you.) I’m curious.



  51.  #51Shannon on December 20, 2013 at 1:36 pm

    Thanks Tereana. And I really loved what you wrote over there. It was amazing and beautiful to see you be so vulnerable and watch your epiphany unfold. Thanks so much for sharing it.

    ————

    On an unrelated note, I have a different question. How much ‘doing for him’ is okay? Like, can I leave the porch light on in the evening for him? He took the garbage cans to the kerb and placed them very thoughtfully in his his parking side so they weren’t in my way. Is it okay to bring them in?

    Is there a fine line that I’m missing where it’s okay to do some things? I feel like I’m “giving back” to him by taking in the trash cans, not “cleaning up after him”. Like he mentioned the other day that he didn’t feel appreciated. So for me bringing in the trashcans after he was so thoughtful with them felt like it was just the right thing to do.

    But is my “it’s the right thing to do” compass broken when it comes to “doing for him”? I know I powerfully overfunctioned before. Yet there are a few things that just don’t feel good to me to ignore.

    For example, I want a clean home. I really, genuinely do NOT enjoy having a messy home. Cleaning up isn’t “cleaning up after him” in my mind, it’s “having a clean home”. But should I leave his not-put-away bowl there and cringe every time I walk past?

    I know I can use a feeling message, but how often do I use the same feeling message? Do I have to accept a messy home, or can I simply take care of myself by keeping it neat?

    Wow. Yeah. Overthinking, but seriously… I really feel lost in this.



  52.  #52Corin on December 20, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    Indigo, thank you! I feel like I was very firmly pulled out of self loathing there and back into self love



  53.  #53Andrea on December 20, 2013 at 1:57 pm

    Alright, on of my CD’ers bought me three phone cards when he realized my phone minutes were up. Awesome!!
    This is a man who is absolutely loving, caring, wonderful with me. He takes care of my needs before I ever have to ask, and if I ask for desires, he almost always says yes as well.
    He respects my daughters and the relationship I have with them.
    I got to the point where I was asking my best friend… “What do you think? Is he the one?”

    Well, here’s why he is NOT the one.

    This afternoon I offered him a free massage for Christmas. He came over and used the bathroom first….. and he completely EXPLODED in my toilet. I mean exploded!! I heard it.

    I gave him the massage, sent him in to take a shower, and when he was done he came out of the bathroom and I said, “Now… tell me… is the pot okay? I mean… I have another client coming so… everything okay in there?”

    “Oh yeah,” he goes. “Everything is fine.” Confident as you please. Leans in for a kiss and is out the door right????

    So tell me, what do you think I found when I went into the bathroom? It was NASTY!! Like a brown bomb had gone off! I swear, I vomitted, and cursed, and cried.

    So, here’s a guy who is so loving toward me, but this is an example of his absolute grossness. And there have been more. He just doesn’t get some social aspects of being an adult.

    And now I’m sitting here realizing that that is IT! I have one minus CDer in my circle. I don’t know that I can even be near him again for a while! Good Golly Miss Molly!! That was the nastiest experience I have ever had with a man.

    What is with that? I’m not sure if I should mention it, or if I just avoid him for a while, or what….

    ps!! So many great posts on here today. I wish I could comment on everyone of them but it would take forever. Awesome thread!!



  54.  #54Dominique on December 20, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    Shannon – 51 – Simplified, if you are doing for him with an agenda, i.e you’re looking to get something back, love, attention, affection, compliments, and so, then you’re overfunctioning.

    If you are doing to take care of you, i.e. cleaning the bowl he left behind because it makes you cringe, then it’s fine.

    And when in a relationship, there is far more of a flow between you.

    This may help –

    http://sexandheart.com/when-is-it-too-much-giving/

    xxoo



  55.  #55Shannon on December 20, 2013 at 4:10 pm

    Thank you, Dominique. I did find that immensely helpful!



  56.  #56Shannon on December 20, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    Lisa, I know this is ‘boy’ stuff, but some things came up for me when I read your post.

    First, I felt a lot of affinity with what you were saying. I often feel guilty when I don’t “get enough done” even if I’m ill or otherwise not able to!

    I use a website called Simpleology. A few tips I learned that I feel might help you are these:

    1. If you feel bad not doing, write a very short list, or set a timer. Finish your super short list (based on maintaining an area, or making some minor improvements)… or work for the designated time.

    What this might look like is cleaning up after dinner and making your bed. Now you’re all done! Or clean for 20 minutes. That’s 20 minutes you wouldn’t get done if you sat there locked up in guilt and overwhelm!

    2. Write down other things that occur to you as you go along. You’re cleaning up dinner and realize, eww, microwave needs to be cleaned.

    Rather than letting this overwhelm you and feel like too much (then feeling defeated), write it down for tomorrow–or maybe even later in the week. Then LET IT GO for now.

    3. Accomplish something, and let the rest go. Look for progress, not completion. You don’t have to “clean the house” today… just pick up a dish or empty the dishwasher.

    4. Do little things along the way that take seconds but you usually ignore. When I leave my desk now, I look. Is there a dirty dish there? I take it into the kitchen–where I take the extra few seconds to place it in the dishwasher (versus what I used to do).

    I always want my home clean and neat. I don’t always feel like knuckling down and getting the whole thing cleaned in a single day (let’s not quibble–I NEVER feel like getting it all done in one day :p ).

    The point is, if it feels better… accomplish something small before you sit down and let out a big whoosh of relief.

    Because you won’t enjoy your downtime if it’s riddled with guilt. It’s not healing and restorative when it feels like the whole house is looming in the background and growing more dust bunnies to attack you in your sleep. Om nom nom.

    Anyway. My apologies if this comes too late, or if it’s too ‘boy’ or whatnot.

    It felt right to mention it, since it has made a HUGE change for the better in my own life.



  57.  #57Cupcake on December 20, 2013 at 6:28 pm

    Hi, Sirens-

    You know how the Nasty Voice has to chime in all the time?

    Here’s the conversation I’m having with mine.

    Cupcake: I feel happy that Lord Voldemort is back in my life. It felt good to read his text that said, “I don’t want you ever to disappear. There feels like there is a bond between us that never needs to be broken.” Knowing that he still is out there and still has feelings for me makes me feel better about going out and meeting other men.

    Nasty Voice: You idiot. He wants to be your FRIEND.

    Cupcake: If I’m CDing, it doesn’t matter. I’ll just meet tons of guys, I’ll get a job, and no time I’ll feel like I have a real world around me in this new city. Then it won’t matter about him. I can be happy that such a wonderful man is still in my life.

    Nasty Voice: You can just never reel them in, can you?

    Cupcake: He cares about me. There was a month of no contact, and at the end, we both came out knowing that we want to be in the other person’s life.

    Nasty Voice: Girlfriend, wake up. You are his BACKUP PLAN. You’ve got to tell him thanks but no thanks.

    Sirens, I keep pulling myself out of this conversation in my head. I’ll think about something else and the Nasty Voice comes and taps me on the shoulder to discuss it some more.

    He’s supposed to call me on Sunday. I feel scared I’ll say something that will mess everything up. I feel scared that I won’t be “fun” and that by not being fun, I will spin things in the wrong direction. But I know I should only talk to him for 10 minutes max, and so if I am fun for 10 minutes, then I don’t find out if he’s interested in coming back here to see me again or he’s just keeping me on a string.

    This is a really good man. He isn’t a player.

    I’m supposed to talk to Coach Caro on Sunday morning and I’m so glad because I haven’t a clue.

    I misread his text, you see. The one that said “I don’t want you ever to disappesar. There feels like there’s a bond between us that should never need to be broken.”

    I read “that should never be broken.” I thought he was saying he wanted to get back together.

    So I wrote back “I feel the same way,”

    And he wrote: “Good. 🙂 ”

    It just all feels weird.

    I don’t want to be friends. I like him too much.

    So. The Nasty Voice is really having a hey-day with this. And I felt so happy about it yesterday.

    🙁

    I’m going out tonight with a girl I met. Hopefully there will be men to flirt with. I am not feeling very Siren-y right now, I can tell you.

    Cupcake

    PS No word yet about the job but the recruiter said that in terms of qualifications, I was the top candidate and if the guy liked me, which he seemed to, she feels good about it.



  58.  #58Cupcake on December 20, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    Really, Sirens, really and truly–

    I just need a job. Everything will be better when I get a job. I have waaaaay too much time on my hands and nobody to talk to all day.

    Except the Nasty Voice, of course. Some days, it’s a non-stop coffee klatch with her.



  59.  #59Cupcake on December 20, 2013 at 6:46 pm

    Andrea-

    I feel so bad for you about that guy.

    A similar thing happened to my sister. The guy puked all over her bathroom and then wiped some of it up with one of her bath-towels and said “Don’t worry, I cleaned it up.” But it was everywhere. Walls, floor. Like he wasn’t even aiming for the toilet.

    It really makes you wonder how these people hold jobs.

    I’m sorry that happened to you, both in terms of having to fire a CD and having to clean it up.

    Cupcake



  60.  #60Cupcake on December 20, 2013 at 6:47 pm

    Shannon-

    I really appreciate the time you put into feedback for people’s posts. It feels very generous.

    I’ve been thinking that for a while and wanted to tell you.

    Cupcake



  61.  #61Cupcake on December 20, 2013 at 6:49 pm

    Amber-

    How is Match.com going? Any dates yet?

    I will go back on Match when I GET A JOB. In the meantime, I have to stick to the free sites.

    And whoever said POF is disheartening- I feel the same way.

    Cupcake



  62.  #62Cupcake on December 20, 2013 at 6:53 pm

    Sirens-

    Someone said in another thread– I wish there were more success stories on this board. Dominique was kind enough to remindus of her story in the last thread, in response to someone asking.

    So I’m giving a shout out here to the lurkers– If you’re a “graduate” and have made it over the wall to your happily ever after– I invite you on behalf of all of us to share your story here. Where did you really feel the “penny drop” in terms of living a Siren’s life?

    It would feel great to hear how it all comes together, finally.

    Thanks



  63.  #63Boikanyo on December 20, 2013 at 8:15 pm

    Rori, in my case its the other way round, Im the one who texted other guys whilst with him and even went on a road trip with an ex. He found out, asked me about it and i lied at first. Now he doesnt trust me and has left. But i realise now he is the one i want in my life. How do i regain trust and respect? I messed up so much. I now want to make it right and show him i can be that woman he wants.



  64.  #64Cupcake on December 20, 2013 at 8:36 pm

    I wish somebody else was on the board tonight.

    Anybody there?

    The girl I was supposed to go out with texted that instead of going out, everyone was at somebody’s house and did I want to come and hang out with her and her bf and several other couples?

    I said thanks, I’ll pass.



  65.  #65Indigo on December 20, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    Shannon 56,

    I love this 🙂

    I love finding ways to get creative about the stuff I need to get ‘done’ in my life – because I have a rule… if I have to force myself, or if I feel guilty about it, I won’t do it!



  66.  #66Indigo on December 20, 2013 at 9:59 pm

    Cupcake 62,

    For what it’s worth, I think everyone’s success story looks so different.

    I actually believe it’s one of our main barriers to success and happiness – expecting our happiness story to look exactly like, or even anything like, someone else’s. The truth is, we all have such different desires and qualities and personalities, and things that make us happy, not to mention growth journeys and timelines, different fates and purposes… I just won’t define myself by not having “arrived” at a particular destination in my life, be it marriage or the ideal relationship, or the perfect job, by a particular point, any more.

    I know that’s not what you mean, but I think it’s all about how we define success… I’m really learning to revel in the journey, and everything I discover and learn along the way. I don’t care if I only settle down with the man who is right for me 20 years from now, and if we only have 10 years together, because I know when it happens, it will be right, and not a moment too soon 🙂



  67.  #67Cupcake on December 20, 2013 at 10:35 pm

    Indigo- #65

    I understand what you’re saying.

    I never meant that I thought there was a cookie cutter happy ending.

    I only meant that it seems that a lot of us are struggling, here, on and off, with self-discovery. And feeling unsupported and sad seems to come up as a seem rather frequently. Longing for something different.

    I just thought it would feel refreshing to have someone write about what it feels like to wake up in the morning and not wish things are different.

    And I hear what you’re saying, that you are enjoying your process. And Dominque wrote recently that it’s always a process, it just becomes an easier process over time.

    I have a friend who was in a loveless marriage for a long time. She tried to fix it. It was unfixable. Then her husband left her. Then she met a wonderful man, and now they are happy. When they look at each other, their eyes shine.

    She says, “For 15 years, I thought marriage was hell and I would never be happy. Every single morning now, I wake up and he hugs me and I think, Oh my God, how did this happen? Though what saint’s intercession did this miracle occur? I am loved, and safe, and happy.”

    When she tells me that, I feel good. I feel renewed,

    I just thought it would be nice to hear a story like that.

    Sure, the process can feel good. Happiness comes in many forms.

    But I don’t see people’s eyes shining, usually, when they talk about their process.

    Not like my friend’s and her husband’s.

    I’m just saying.

    I feel a little like my request offended you, and I feel a little sad and taken aback by feeling that way.



  68.  #68blue rose on December 20, 2013 at 11:32 pm

    2: Femininewoman

    that made me laugh about Shaggy and that old song. It wasn’t me. I’d forgotten about it.

    And Cupcake, that’s really funny you named someone lord voldemort.



  69.  #69Indigo on December 20, 2013 at 11:39 pm

    Hi Cupcake,

    No, I’m not offended at all. Not in any way, shape or form.

    It is just what came up for me.

    And my post was written only half to you, and half to myself.

    Very beautiful story about your friend.



  70.  #70Shannon on December 21, 2013 at 3:00 am

    Cupcake, I feel like I’m a success story!

    Now, I grant you, I’m not stars-in-the-eyes in love just now, no. However, I still feel like a huge success story for Rori’s teachings.

    When my ex told me that he didn’t want to be with me anymore, I was devastated. I was crying a lot, I was livid with him… and I was so filled with resentments.

    I wanted to punish him, and he wanted to punish me, and our daughter was living with two people who could barely keep our mouths shut in front of her. We weren’t actively fighting in front of her–just staring daggers.

    It was tense and ugly and extremely unhappy. She was so unhappy that she begged me every night not to leave her alone, to sleep with her.

    I was stuck between “I want him back” and “wtf is WRONG with him? Doesn’t he feel anything besides hate–ever??”

    Cupcake, I turned it around within two weeks. He was talking about marrying me!

    I was the one who changed my mind. I had turned it around using Rori’s tools, but then he offered me a sort of “bargain marriage” and I realized that I just didn’t want some of his behaviors in my relationship.

    The HUGE thing here is how I feel. I no longer hate him at all. In fact, I like him. He’s a great man- with a few “no, I’m sorry” things (like his mother always comes first–and I want to be first!).

    He is a much better father now. There have been a few incidents that were worked out within a day! There’s little to no tension in our house anymore… it feels tranquil and peaceful most of the time.

    I’m not pining after him. I’ve turned my attention to going out and to Match.com (kind of a disaster at that, I guess- a few looks, no contacts at all). But the thing is, Match.com has shown me something amazing… there are so many single men out there who seem really sweet and wonderful! Maybe they won’t contact me online, but they are THERE.

    My whole feeling-self has changed from misery to acceptance and peace. While that might not put “stars in my eyes”, it’s HUGE.

    I went from a rage-filled split to marriage being up for discussion again within two weeks.

    I went from feeling broken and sobbing often to dancing to Imagine Dragons and smiling. I feel actual joy sometimes now (much of my sorrow at holiday time has nothing to do with my ex).

    My relationship with my ex is a complete 180. We may still get back together, since he has changed dramatically and maybe he’ll start chasing me and start putting me first. But if he doesn’t, I’m already feeling peace and hope.

    Personally, if someone asked me if I felt I was a “Rori success,” I would probably scream “yes!!” in their face and jump up and down. :p

    I don’t feel I needed to end up with a man to be a “success” here. I’m happy. I’m happy!

    Wow. Just… wow.



  71.  #71Shannon on December 21, 2013 at 3:04 am

    By the way, in relation to success… you don’t get over a breakup from a 10 year relationship with the father of your child within 2 months.

    But I did.

    I feel fine now! Just a couple short months later, I feel fine whether he steps up or not!



  72.  #72Indigo on December 21, 2013 at 3:08 am

    I’ve realized I know a number of men, have many guy friends, who are not ready for a relationship. They are all single and have been that way for some time. They talk a good game about meeting someone special, but it has been years since they’ve had a real relationship or when they meet someone they can’t seem to quite commit.

    I know so many guys like this. Hm. They’re nice, stable guys whom I’m fond of for the most part… whose main flaw seems to be a fear of intimacy with women. I wonder, since they’re mostly young (around their early 30’s) if it’s something they grow out of and change more into wanting.



  73.  #73Shannon on December 21, 2013 at 4:44 am

    Oh, and Andrea?

    That’s seriously gross. That he’d do it is just… well… sometimes it happens. But that it meant everything was “fine”? That he just left it?

    That feels icky to me. I would have felt angry, and I would have felt grossed out… not so much by it happening, but by his nonchalant attitude and leaving it for you to clean up.



  74.  #74Epiphyllum on December 21, 2013 at 4:56 am

    # 53 Andrea

    Thanks for sharing your story. I feel sorry to hear your “gross” experience with this potential *the ONE* material CD. I feel foul and stinky just by reading your post! You poor darling… hope the right man will appear in your life soon!



  75.  #75Femininewoman on December 21, 2013 at 5:11 am

    Andrea sorry about that experience. I can help but think that it was not an accident, like he purposely left it messy for a reason because he could have told you that it was messy. Even if he was embarrassed about it if he has intention of seeing you again it is hard for me to imagine that he would accidental do that. I really do believe it was intentional for some reason. He is not stupid and I am pretty sure he knows what he was doing.



  76.  #76Indigo on December 21, 2013 at 5:25 am

    Feminine Woman,

    What you say about Andrea’s experience rings true for me. I believe there are some people who are unconsciously careless or malicious with other people’s property. That it happened could have been an accident of health, but that he didn’t even attempt to clean it up to me speaks volumes about a person.

    You poor thing, Andrea.



  77.  #77Corin on December 21, 2013 at 5:26 am

    Andrea, what springs to my mind is that this is an opportunity to express boundaries whilst remaining soft and open.

    Definite grossness though!!



  78.  #78Shannon on December 21, 2013 at 5:30 am

    And to add to what they’ve already said, especially about an opportunity to express…

    “I feel angry and grossed out. I don’t want to be in a relationship where my man leaves serious messes for me to clean up. I don’t want to clean up after someone’s bathroom messes, in particular.”

    It’s possible that he may step up. He might not change, but HIS BEHAVIOR might.

    It’s also an opportunity to practice… what happens if you end up getting married and your husband does this to you? This could be practice for something in the future–or it might even have been a test to see whether or not you’ll stand powerfully by your boundaries like a True Siren.



  79.  #79Shannon on December 21, 2013 at 5:32 am

    ((PS, it’s okay to even go so far as to say, “I feel DISGUSTED”. Imagine how hard THAT would be to say!))



  80.  #80Femininewoman on December 21, 2013 at 5:35 am

    Thought I’d share this that I got in an email

    “Why feeling is the secret”

    Here’s the simple system for you:

    1. Envision what you want, every night before bed. Be as detailed, specific andclear as you can. Make it vivid.

    2. Conjure up the FEELINGS you will have when you reach your goal. The idea is to feel as good as if it already manifested for you.

    3. Act on any synchronicities or clear hunches that pop up. Simple, right? In principle, yes.”



  81.  #81Corin on December 21, 2013 at 5:37 am

    Cupcake, your story of Lord V and whether he wants to be friends vs something more is really interesting to me. It strikes me on a personal level because my ex is also reaching out to me. I know Rori sometimes speaks of ‘no contact’ so this might be in contradiction of what she would say.

    But…

    to my mind, whether what they want is friendship, something more, sex etc really means very little as the only distinction I see is are we getting married or not? If we are not getting married then any contact from a man is all in a similar vein: they crave some contact with me and I allow it if that feels good. I use it as an opportunity to practice feeling messages, not fixating on one man, cherishing my boundaries etc. I assume that all men who are contacting me to some extent want more than friendship but whether they actually say that means very little. They could be wanting and saying they want more than friendship but never claiming me to marry me and so they are on exactly the same level as men who say they only want friendship. It goes back to not getting hung up on what they think and only focussing on me and am I getting what I want (married).

    I’m unsure if you want to get married or not but I guess you could replace married with whatever relationship you are seeking.

    When I hear you write about Lord V I get the sense that what he thinks about you has become the most important thing. That is where I feel bad when I read your comments. In my mind what matters most is YOU and he can come to bask in your sirenness if you choose to allow him. Of course he wants to approach you, you are an amazing, juicy woman. You are the prize, not him.

    I’m feeling a little worried that my tone here could hurt or make you feel judged so I’m really sorry if that happens, it is not intended. I know I judge myself so my tone can sometimes feel a little judgemental to others. I’m working on healing that so my own vulnerability can come through.



  82.  #82Femininewoman on December 21, 2013 at 5:39 am

    “I don’t want to be in a relationship where my man leaves serious messes for me to clean up.”

    He!!ll no. Is the first thing that popped into my head when reading that line. Men are confident and have egos. I would not say that to this guy because I believe all he would hear would be “my man” and translate it as her wanting and claiming him regardless of how she feels. “my man” in this context and “relationship”; he!!ll no. Even if it is what Rori recommends, for me, he!!ll no.



  83.  #83Femininewoman on December 21, 2013 at 5:44 am

    Corin it doesn’t feel judgemental to me. It feels like sound advice. It suggests “be aware”, stay focused on your feelings and don’t allow your mind to make up stories. What you say resonate with me. When I feel anything for a man hope sits deep down in my belly and project my energy towards him. Your comments reminded me of that and also of Rori’s Waterwheel tool. I haven’t practiced that in a while.



  84.  #84Shannon on December 21, 2013 at 5:45 am

    FW, I think that everything is a relationship. She could replace “my man” with “the man” or even “my friend”. Regardless, it’s my personal view that if I’m dating someone and feel loved by him, then it’s a relationship even if it’s not a COMMITTED relationship.

    But that’s my personal view and may not resonate with you or Andrea. 🙂

    I do think it’s okay to say you don’t want the kind of [whatever/ friendship /relationship/ etc.] in which the person leaves messes for you to clean up.

    Your wording may vary… but I think the important part is to express the boundary in your own words.



  85.  #85Epiphyllum on December 21, 2013 at 5:52 am

    Andrea

    Somehow, some men have no sense of tidiness. They don’t observe it, they don’t see it, they don’t care about it the way that we women do. Therefore, it would be a disaster if you happened to marry a slob! You have to be prepared to clean up after him and not let yourself get annoyed or frustrated… Tough for that one! Let’s hope “Love will conquer all! “.



  86.  #86Corin on December 21, 2013 at 5:53 am

    Thanks Femininewoman.

    I love the waterwheel exercise. Sometimes I make the water all kinds of beautiful colours. I’ve also been imagining the beautiful engagement ring I will wear one day and feeling the sparkles of the diamond reflect back on me as the love from the man who will give it to me. I feel all sparkly and topped up with love and excitement when I do that.



  87.  #87Sami on December 21, 2013 at 8:47 am

    Cupcake !!!

    I feel confident and happy to share that I am a success story!! I have a true blue man who got down on his knees to propose to me with a sapphire ring on top of a mountain after dating me for a year! Before I was introduced to rori, I was also falling for the bad guys and felt so lost and confused! Today I am happily married! I feel adored and so cherished by my man … I got a rose this morning for our 6 month anniversary this morning !! It’s easy, it’s sexy, it’s fun, it’s supportive, it’s safe… I feel so blessed with this relationship 🙂 I hope this real life experience lifts your spirits up and reminds you to continue believing in the magic and that it will happen to you too !!!! Much love Sami



  88.  #88Cupcake on December 21, 2013 at 10:38 am

    #86 Sami-

    Thank you. Your post made me cry. In a good way.

    It feels really good to feel the happy energy come through your words.

    Was there an aha! moment in your process? Or was it more gradual than that? How did you feel different when you met your husband?

    Cupcake



  89.  #89Hana on December 21, 2013 at 10:54 am

    Dear beautiful wise Shannon,

    On the contrary your post to my post was very thoughtful and very spot on. That night after speaking to one of my girlfriends, I realized I had the power to stop myself from the rollercoaster thinking and obsessing, and I did just that. I felt so much better and still do. There was another moment in the daycare classroom when he cane up to me a couple of days ago and we really connected. Now, I have learned how to stop obsessing, I think I just had a moment of panic lol, but now I have a new issue that is bothering me. You are right, I dont know him yet, so I cannot speculate anything, but I feel like I am not worthy of a good man, who is also Jewish, who is in the looks department as handsome as me. I don’t know where this stems from, and I don’t know who to reverse this insecurity. Perhaps it makes more vulnerable. I don’t know why I feel so u worthy of a man who could actually come from the same background as me.

    ???

    Xxxooo



  90.  #90Cupcake on December 21, 2013 at 11:21 am

    Corin # 80-

    Thank you for your insightful response. You’ve given me a reminder for a paradigm shift.

    Part of the being concerned about what he is thinking about me is the ambiguity of texts. I can read the text conversations over and over, each time with a different set of feelings.

    I need to just lean back, and let him figure it out. And I REALLY need for there to be other people including men in my life.

    I feel like a princess in a tower. My apartment in this new city is in the attic of sprawling Victorian house guarded by a tall iron gate and even two huge stone lions. And there are many stairs to my apartment, and once there a view that looks over the tree tops on a boulevard in a beautiful city. I go out and at first I was meeting a lot of people but last week – maybe because of the impending holidays- I didn’t meet people. So I feel isolated. I feel like that story of the princess on the glass mountain, that nobody could climb up to see.

    Which leaves me sitting here mulling over Lord Voldemort, who is such a lovely man, and with whom marriage was a real possibility.

    Yes, I do want to be married. And I don’t necessarily want to marry him- although that would be a total blast, because he’s amazing and my respect for him feels absolutely unreserved.

    I guess what I am saying is that this feels like an awkward time in my life. And I feel better remembering that that will change, things will get better, I will be more connected to other people here in this city.

    Then, I feel certain, that basking in my Siren-ness will feel easier. I just need to be patient. And maybe the Universe is setting it up that way so I can find my Siren-ness all on its own, learn how to feel confident in that with absolutely NO shoring up from the outside world. Maybe that is my lesson here.

    Thanks again, Corin, for your thoughts. And in response to your concern- I didn’t feel judged at all, only your kind thoughts and support.

    Cupcake



  91.  #91Femininewoman on December 21, 2013 at 11:34 am

    From I have observed with many men, you say the “relationship” word to them or label what you have with them as a relationship and they go on high alert. When they label what you have as a “relationship” then the dynamics and the reaction is different. If they are okay with the label then things are really different.



  92.  #92Cupcake on December 21, 2013 at 11:34 am

    Sirens-

    Just as I was finishing the post above to Corin, my friend Kyle stopped by. I have mentioned Kyle before- he is an amazing guy who is also trying to find his way through the maze of dating. (He is way, way too young for me– too old to be a boy toy, and too young to be a contender for my hand in marriage.)

    Anyway- he started talking about a female friend of his who is in love and in a fairly involved relationship with a guy who says they are “just friends.” He said, “The funny thing is, it’s perfectly obvious to me that if she said, “Oh, okay. I want something more than what I’m getting, so best of luck to you and I’m moving along to find my heart’s desire-” If she SAID that, and DID it– this guy would figure out in about two weeks that he really does want her in his life. She’s just making it way too easy for him as it is.”

    Kyle was rearranging stuff in his backpack as he said it, and I sat on my bed watching him thinking, “Wow. The Lord does move in mysterious ways.”

    I’ll talk to Coach Caro about this tomorrow. I feel so much better though about my scheduled conversation with Lord Voldemort. I just have to tell him that he can take as long as he likes to figure it all out, and that I’ll be dating and creating a life for myself in this new city, and that if he wants to come back for another week or so to spend more time with me, that would feel awesome. And I hope I’m single if/when he comes around to that decision, because I feel really curious about what it would be like to be with him in a more significant way, and I get that because of the small matter of living in different countries, the upfront investment in getting to see each other feels high. To me, it feels worth it. If he gets back to feeling the same way, then that will feel wonderful. I understand why he freaked out at the idea of shipping me over to live with him, kit and caboodle, after only one week of time spent together (and no actual sex!!!!).

    Anyway- Kyle was just chattering and I sat there feeling like there was actual light coming from him with his words.

    Whew. I feel better.

    And I don’t even have to say no contact. I just have to lean back. And chain myself to the freaking wall if I must to do it.

    Cupcake



  93.  #93Cupcake on December 21, 2013 at 11:38 am

    #90 Femininewoman-

    I concur. I avoid that word as it is loaded.

    Unless there’s a reason to use the “R-word” specifically, I say “interaction” or “dynamic” or “liaison.”

    “One thing that makes me feel happy about our dynamic is….”

    Etc.

    It just avoids the mine field.



  94.  #94Femininewoman on December 21, 2013 at 11:49 am

    Cupcake what he told you is a clue to how men can subtly get that a woman values herself and what she wants in her life. The Universe will treat you as good as you treat yourself.



  95.  #95Shannon on December 21, 2013 at 11:55 am

    Hana, I think what Rori often says is that it doesn’t matter why. It only matters how you feel.

    I think the way to reverse feeling unworthy is to roll with it. Take the risk… because in so doing, you’ll learn along the way that this handsome guy poops, farts, belches, and does all the very “gross human things” that every one of us on the planet does.

    While I don’t like the phrase “familiarity breeds contempt,” I do like the underlying concept that says that, when you get to know a person well, you do begin to realize that they are just as human as you are.

    Even the Queen of England has to take a dump every once in a while. Just think about that indomitable old lady sitting there on the royal throne doing the same gross thing we all do.

    Kind of puts things into perspective, lol.

    Worthiness doesn’t have anything to do with this. If you’re “his one”, he’ll love you just because you’re you–toilet using and all!



  96.  #96Violette on December 21, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    The guy who cancelled our date on Tues never called me again. I keep wondering if he felt rejected that I only returned his cancellation call, when he said call me back and let’s reschedule, with a text saying “I feel disappointed, and I understand.xo”. I would have called him back but I wanted to let him know I got the message in a timely manner, and I didn’t want him to hear the disappointment in my voice, because I know I like him way too much too fast.

    And I hoped he’d just initiate a reschedule. I know some men would. I know the type of guy I’d ideally date, the alpha kind, would initiate the reschedule, rather than just asking me to call him in order to do it.

    I’m moving to a new city in a month. So I feel like if I ‘m going to see this guy, it has to be now. I feel a kind of hurry. I know this isn’t good. And the wanting is getting the best of me. And I’m not dating anyone else because I’ve been having a bit of a dry spell.

    I want to text him today. Something like, “hey handsome, how is your day going?” And then this wave of crazy, triggeredness comes over me at the thought of actually doing it.

    I need more people around me. None of my friends seem to want to hang out. They all seem happy isolating and being alone. I hate it.

    I’m considering contacting a cute guy who recently told me he wants to be friends and to call him to hang out. I didn’t want to because not sure it would feel good, but maybe I will call him and see if he wants to go to the dog park. See if it feels ok to just be friends with a guy I would probably date if he asked me…



  97.  #97Violette on December 21, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    Sometimes it seems I get a little caught up in my pride. It’s very difficult for me when someone I like doesn’t want to date me, and would prefer to be friends…



  98.  #98Violette on December 21, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    …and maybe it’s ok if I let that go…maybe it’s not so good for me to hold on to that. Hmmm…



  99.  #99Sami on December 21, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    My dear cupcake !!!

    First a big kudos to u for being a fantastic woman who can feel happy with her full heart for another woman ! There are many aha moments even now… It’s about progress remember… Not perfection ! And even now that we are married, I have often my revision of rori to do …
    I would say for me the key was awareness… Of rori … And complete faith in trusting in being the girl who has power in her hands.. Soft outside, strong inside! There were many points during dating when I pined for him… Wanted to jump and do something nice for him … Show him what a good girl I was .. Call first etc… All normal feelings but those that can really give him the power if u act on them … I just used to sit with them and said to myself .. Ha wow.. I feel like texting him.. Where does this sense of lack come from?? Il do something nice for me .. Etc etc .. Always being the girl even it felt like the end.. Like he wouldn’t message ever again .. I said to myself.. Then with pain in my heart I must let him go .. Rowing the boat is not for me ! He always stepped up cupcake ! I created the space for it I believe! Now in marriage and living 24/7 together, I often feel my leaning forward energy.. Again awareness is key.. U become aware and step back .. It’s also normal because good women know giving as a form of love .. It’s hard to see him struggling with a 30 kg suitcase alone and not offer help.. But don’t offer it ! He won’t accept it ! He doesn’t like it ! Trust rori ! I guess practising every thing rori teaches with full trust is very important ! Not a few elements of it but the whole package ! I feel very happy and loved by my man cupcake !! 🙂 of course difficult issues arise sometimes when things don’t feel good but I use feeling messages and sooner or later he steps up and makes it right !! It’s a dream .. Touchwood ! I often feel fear .. What will happen to me if it disappeared from one day to the next.. But then I let my nasty voice sit back and tell it.. How can it disappear?? I’m the boss here !! I want it.. I’m
    Committed to being a full and happy woman and giving this gift of love to me!! I deserve it and so do u my dear cupcake !! Just keep going.. Trust.. Practice .. Be vulnerable and don’t give to a man before he has given u what u want !! Love Sami



  100.  #100Violette on December 21, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    Thank you Sami!!

    It does feel nice to hear the success side of dating. And to hear that even with all the pitfalls success can still come.

    I did call the cute guy who wants to just be friends, and it did feel fun. Like a loosening, sometimes I just get so attached to my rules. And, yes there still is a part of me that wants to know why he doesn’t want to date me. And I have to check that part of me for now, and I feel willing to discovering a new friend, if indeed that’s what it is.

    I feel excited about exploring something new that I’ve been wondering about. And even if it turns out badly for me, there ‘s really not that much at stake, is there. I’ll find out how it feels to do this is all. It does feel like a new lesson, so that’s good. We shall see.

    Ugh, I still want to text the cancelling guy, haven’t done it yet. I was kind of hoping someone on this blog would talk me out of it! Heh…I may call a girlfriend who might talk me out of it. Just because it would be nice to give it more time to see if he would ever call on his own. Then again, there can be some value in exploring this question as to whether I was too leaned back in response to his cancelling…



  101.  #101Sophie on December 21, 2013 at 3:58 pm

    Violette – I’d talk you out of it 🙂 He cancelled on you – if it was me i’d think if he really really wants a date with me (the prize) then he will reschedule – thats stepping up (even if he does wonder why you havent called – thats still stepping up – asking you to call him to reschedule is letting you do the work – not stepping up) I don’t think you can be too leaned back with the right man – in my experience it may take a while while they be a bit stubborn and see whether or not you’ll row the boat but if they really want a date they will call you – end of – iffff that’s what you want…



  102.  #102Sophie on December 21, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    Violette – I hear you though the situation you’re in with leaving and not having enough people around you right now to distract you – that feels frustrating I can see how easy it’d be to lean forward x



  103.  #103Sophie on December 21, 2013 at 4:09 pm

    Sami – I love hearing your story – I love the ‘trust rori! everything she says the whole package’ yes more Rori tool practice for me



  104.  #104Tereana on December 21, 2013 at 7:51 pm

    Shannon, thank you!

    Cupcake – I know the feeling of being so bored with no job. I know that, for me, when I have to much time on my hands it is basically an invitation to lean forward with guys, because I start thinking about then more, then feeling like I “need” to do something about it, because I can, and I have time. So, for that reason I think working keeps me much healthier with dating.

    And speaking of leaning forward, I just had a moment of thinking about leaning forward with lakeman. Then I was checking my email and for a moment thought he had sent something to me (it was someone with a similar name). My heart skipped a beat. And I noticed how nervous I felt. Maybe I don’t really *want* to hear from him.

    He seems to have entered the territory of my mind where he gets to be a pleasant memory. I get to think of the happy, nice things I remember and forget the rest. I can forget the pain, the heartache, every time he would get scared and leave me. I can forget the anxiety that arose out of the perpendicular crossing of our attraction and our life goals.

    If he were to ACTUALLY write to me, I would not only be surprised, I don’t think I would like it. I feel dismissive of him. Not as a person, but as an appropriate “suitor.” HE DOESN’T WANT KIDS. End of story. He can’t go anywhere with me because there’s nowhere to go. I don’t think I need to spend any more energy on that. That’s really all I need to know…

    Now, if he came back to me and said, “Hey, I’m really in love with you and also I want to marry you and have a family,” I would be happy about that. But I’m not putting my eggs in that basket because basically there is no basket.

    Anyway. Lots of enjoyment and physical pleasure are not the only elements of relationship.



  105.  #105Emerson on December 21, 2013 at 9:32 pm

    Hi sirens
    I’ve been struggling with leaning forward alot lately….
    Focusing on leaning back and waterwheeling….
    I want to get my magical peaceful rori vibe back…
    Siren zone !!!



  106.  #106Emerson on December 21, 2013 at 9:34 pm

    I felt ashamed this weekend because I feel so needy and missing the feeling of being in a relationship …
    I see all these couples holding hands and having coffee, shopping, dressed cozy walking together… I feel jealous and a aching longing….



  107.  #107Tereana on December 21, 2013 at 9:49 pm

    So many new people on the blog. I’m just noticing – almost all of the names I’m seeing are new. That’s awesome! It’s kind of cool to have a revolving community. I know I drop off sometimes and come back. Other women go quiet, then return. This is always a place we can come back to…

    Anyway, I just had an interesting “aha” moment tonight. I am almost forgetting what it was, but I think it was this: do I really want to be someone’s girlfriend?

    When I asked myself that question, I was stunned by the nervous silence in my mind. I felt like the gears all tightened up. My gut was a little right, too. My ears felt hot. I really didn’t know! And then I started tracing that feeling back through my experience.

    I realized that I’ve hardly ever been anyone’s girlfriend. The one time that it seemed I successfully achieved that status (without any real effort on my part, it really just happened), was also the time that it turned into not just girlfriend but marriage. Ok, not actual marriage, but only because I walked away.

    I really feel like digging into this more. Is the reason I walked away part of the “problem”? (Ok, I’m on my path. I get it now. I wasn’t ready. But still.) And is my phobia of becoming a girlfriend related to that experience in that I simply assume that a “Gf” status will inevitably lead to a proposal? And not only that, I want neither of the results. A breakup would mean heartbreak I don’t want, and a proposal would be too much. Is there a third option?

    I mean, I know I don’t want “girlfriend” as an endpoint. That doesn’t feel satisfying. But it doesn’t have to be an either/or. I guess the truth is, we DON’T know and we CAN’T know what the endpoint will be. All we can do is be present.

    “Girlfriend” is a testing period. If you know that your life goals match and you have attraction, then you can see if you actually like being together. If you like it, then great. If one or both of you doesn’t, then it has to end. I think this can all be very simple. I know that we are not into the “girlfriend trap” here. But I’m not talking about a trap. I am talking about “girlfriend status” that involves choice. You CHOOSE to be with him. He CHOOSES to be with you. You are BOTH considering more, but you’re not sure yet.

    I think we all just get so bent out of shape, wondering “what’s going to happen” that we don’t even pay attention to what IS happening. Myself included. I do it all the time. That’s why I’m here. And guys are not immune to this. I think they can do it, too.

    But a GOOD guy will be “present” to you. A good guy won’t be “in his head,” or in the past or in the future. He’ll be right there with you, figuring it all out.

    I don’t know, I guess just asking myself the question gave me a lot of clarity. I felt a lot of resistance. And I think that I HAVE been viewing that as a trap. But it’s really not. You can always leave. And he can, too. It’s a safe place to explore, if you let it be. I think that’s why people do it. Because it can be fun. And if you have fun with it, instead of getting all worried about irrelevant stuff, then you could set yourself up for a great relationship.

    Just my two cents here. Girlfriend *isn’t* commitment. And it’s only a trap if we think that we want something more. And it can be a stepping stone. But we can always go back if that particular stone doesn’t go where we need it to go…

    I don’t think I need to be so “anti” the idea of girlfriend. I think what I just need to do for myself is get a really clear vision of what a healthy and useful girlfriend relationship would be like, and what role I would play in that and how I want to be, and then it will be easier.

    And watch commitment blueprint. I think that’s what I’ll do next. It will be my project for the week… : )



  108.  #108Tereana on December 21, 2013 at 9:57 pm

    Emerson – hi!! I’ve missed you. I was wondering where you were 🙂 And yeah, I think the holidays can be super tough when you’re single. Me, I’m staying super busy, so I won’t have too much time to be lonely, and I will say that, working in a store that sells mostly feminine, girly things, and seeing the guys come in to get their girlfriends presents… Well, it’s sad for me and it’s touching, at the same time. They may not be buying ME a present, but it’s just comforting to see how much the guys care. It’s sort of neat, in a oh-God-my-heart-feels-so-lonely-right-now way. But our time will come, Emerson. Our time will come!! 🙂



  109.  #109Emerson on December 21, 2013 at 10:07 pm

    When I feel like this I tend to lean forward and end up still feeling needy ,,,
    Would like tobreak this patten



  110.  #110Emerson on December 21, 2013 at 10:08 pm

    Hi tereana how sweet of you I feel warm reading your greeting to me <3



  111.  #111Emerson on December 21, 2013 at 10:19 pm

    Today I felt a mix of gratitude and sadness. It’s ok I learned from rori it is ok to allow myself to feel sad,,,
    I don’t fake or stuff my feelings down …



  112.  #112Liquid Light on December 21, 2013 at 10:25 pm

    Sami 37, I LOVE your post. So inspiring. Thanks so much for sharing your secrets to success, and congrats on a great, loving marriage!!! Wow, just love the way you describe your relationship with your husband! That’s exactly what I want!



  113.  #113Indigo on December 21, 2013 at 11:22 pm

    I had a pretty cool experience last night. I was at a braai (barbeque to my non-South African friends) and I was the only girl. There were three single guys. One of them seems really very shy, which is to say, whenever it’s just me and him in the room, he would totally clam up, not utter a word, not even look at me. I used to actually feel a bit hurt and rejected by it, until I realized it was shyness, because as soon as everyone else comes back, he talks to and looks at me without a problem. Prior to last night, I’ve always tried to “pick up the slack” with this guy, make little passing comments, ask questions, try to put him at ease. And last night I thought I’m not going to do that. I let the silence rest. I looked off into the distance at things which were interesting, only met his eyes if he looked at me. And… he actually opened up a bit more. He initiated conversation for the first time, and visibly relaxed and opened up more. Very interesting.



  114.  #114Zia on December 22, 2013 at 3:12 am

    So here’s a thing – was chatting to a guy online and he invited me out but then it became clear it would just be a hook up… and while I am definitely interested in meeting him for a drink just to see what he’s like and if I like him, I wasn’t too keen on the idea of meeting with any sort of expectations. I got nervous and thought I could either ignore him and delete him OR i could be honest and just say I felt a bit silly because i thought it was just for a drink and nothing more, and that we might have to make it another time.

    I went with option b, because I figured this was a good time to flex my honesty muscles. And hey presto guess what? I heard from him again, we’re still chatting, he didn’t completely blow me off or ignore me or say anything horrible in response.

    It feels good to practise just being honest with everyone and facing the fear of rejection or whatever that fear is because the majority of the time people respond really well to honesty! Anyway that’s my story for today 🙂

    I really want to meet him.



  115.  #115Cris on December 22, 2013 at 4:05 am

    @Cupcake… but, what is success? of course if the goal is meeting Mr Right and marrying him, you can talk about success. But I think you are beeing successful in many ways: having the courage to start your life in a new city, trying to put some order in your feelings about LV, working on a new and improved version of yourself… For me, day-to-day small success is what really matters… I am married a true blue man for 20 years now. Is it a success? no, because it was by chance, not by using any tool. And it has taken (and still takes) some time for me to really appreciate what he offers. So, for me, to be more aware of this and more grateful is also a success. 🙂



  116.  #116Cocokisses407 on December 22, 2013 at 9:26 am

    I’ve been in situations similar to this, worst than this, and it feels horrible. I think it all goes back to what was said in Rori’s previous post. It matters how YOU feel, and what he does.

    I haven’t posted in such a long time, working through a lot of emotions right now, feeling my way back to a happy place



  117.  #117Cocokisses407 on December 22, 2013 at 9:39 am

    A Big Beautiful Hug @FeminineWoman, @Daria, @ DOminique, and @Cupcake….good to see you ladies are still here. I fell off, but I feel good being back 🙂



  118.  #118Millie on December 22, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    I have a few things on my mind today. I want to share, so I can stop thinking about them and go about my day.

    1) I feel frustrated when men use the phrase “hang out.” It annoys the shit out of me! Why? I’ll tell you why… because it straddles the line of dating and being friends. When I meet a new man and he says “want to hang out?” I feel unsure whether he means as a friend, as a hook-up, or as a date! I would assume friend as “hang out” is so casual, but I’ve actually been on dates where a man refers to it as hanging out, and I’ve been out with guys you use “hang out” as code for drinks and hook-up. So confusing!!! I want a man to own up to dating. This is a date. We are on a date. I’m asking you out on a date. I’ve talked about this with my peers and it seems to be the consensus that most women of our generation are intimated by dating and WANT a casual environment in which to get to know someone with no strings. Ok…I understand the no pressure part, but I feel like I’ve reached a point where I don’t want men to treat me casually anymore. I have genuine male friends that say “lets hang out.” That I understand because we are friends, but the trouble lies with new men who I don’t know and guiding the verbage. It’s difficult because when meeting someone new I want to open the space up for a mind to find out how he feels about me without trying to define it out of the gate, but at the same time, I’m feel DONE “hanging out.” Which leads me to point #2

    2) This guy I went out with three times, who seems like a very genuine, nice guy, “a keeper” has said “hang out” to me several times. I did say something about it and said I preferred to acknowledge a date as a date and I like being old-fashioned in that sense. He agreed and seemed to be pleased about it! But….he went on a two week trip out of the country, and text me the day he got back that we should “hang soon.” I felt pretty livid. I have already shared how I feel about that verbage with him! I don’t know if he forgot, or maybe he’s comfortable with using that word. Anyway, I didn’t want to go off in a text especially when he just got back from a trip, so I said to call me and we can chat. He said he would, but I haven’t heard from him. I feel a little disappointed, but at the same time, kind of “over it.” Just over these wishy-washy guys who hide behind the guise of “hang outs.” If he does call, I really want to be solid on this point that I want to be taken out on old-fashioned dates. What is the best way nip this “hang out” stuff in the bud ladies?

    3) Mechanic. I still think about him. He “likes” my facebook and instagram pics and statuses, but hasn’t reached out to contact me at all. I feel like it’s no coincidence that I haven’t seen him since that conversation. My insecurity says that he doesn’t want me around and is not only avoiding me, but making sure I’m not invited to anything he’s going to. But, my Secure voice says he wouldn’t go out of his way to do that…he’s not going out of his way to NOT talk to me or to talk to me. He is just being and it has nothing to do with me, which is probably true. For some reason, I still “miss” him and I feel regret. I wish I could go back and undo my actions, but I can’t. I wish I could talk to him and connect with him, but I can’t. I wish I didn’t care about people who clearly don’t want me, but I can’t not care either.

    4) On a lighter note, I went skiing for the first time yesterday and it was so fun!! I had a blast and let’s say I conquered that mountain! Feeling really good about doing something new and not letting my falls discourage me. I have a new interest and hobby now!



  119.  #119Indigo on December 22, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    Wow, Millie, your post was a timely post for me to read.

    I feel so much the same as you.

    I have so many guy friends and, as much as I treasure them, it feels bad. I realized today I want to feel like a princess, not a buddy. I’m actually tired of trying to fit in with them like a friend, I don’t want that. It feels too much like “being strong” and “hiding” who I really am and what I really want.

    I say, no to hanging out! I say, yes to being treasured. A part of me feels like I’ll never get there if I continue to accept casual treatment. I miss feeling like a jewel, I miss being won over, I miss being held and looked at with adoration like he’s so proud to be with me. I’m done with being friends, I’m done with being “one of the guys” or with being treated like it doesn’t matter whether I’m cherished. It does matter. I want my life to reflect that. I want to say “no” to guy friends.



  120.  #120Emerson on December 22, 2013 at 3:46 pm

    Hi sirens I am feeling a little more in control of my life…things are stabilizing and I feel like I’m going the right direction.



  121.  #121Dominique on December 22, 2013 at 3:46 pm

    Cocokisses!!! – <3

    xxoo



  122.  #122Cupcake on December 22, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    Tereana #104-

    Thanks for the validation. I know I will feel better when I get a job.



  123.  #123Cupcake on December 22, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    Cris- #115-

    I appreciated your saying that you see success in the steps I’m taking. I really needed to read that today.

    Thanks.



  124.  #124Lisa on December 22, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    @Andrea I feel so bad for you… and I agree it wasn’t an accident, and even if it was, he lied… and this triggers me.. so much b/c my ex who has AS does this to me even after being apart for years… he comes over to get our child says he needs to use the toilet and then stops it up, and leaves… so this is a huge, huge trigger for me…. it is so passive aggressive ( in my opinion) .

    I was feeling down today….. “R” hasn’t called… and I get pis$ed when a guy that I actually have things in common with, think is attractive and they don’t call… then I was feeling like oh your desperate!

    Then I realized that I let go of “S” ( unoffically b/c he never called me back- and I didn’t care) b/c I just couldn’t bring myself to spend the holidays with him….. then I thought NO if I was desperate then I’d stayed with “S” for the holiday’s… or “M3” or any of the others that had contacted me… so I can’t be desperate… I keep passing men up…

    SO then what is the story? Here it is: I’d rather spend the holiday’s alone – be lonely – than to spend it with some man, I don’t want to be with, not feeling it for, and who is not treating me right!!! That is a good thing!!!!

    @Indigo I’ve done that with shy men and it works good.. to just sit with the silence.. Yay! YOu!

    This video really hit home with me… b/c of my personality of I’d rather be friendless and alone than to have to follow along and be someone I’m not… she puts into perspective…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4DOJpB2I8o

    I think it rings true with Rori’s work in that she says to BE yourself unapologetically….

    “Being polite” to please a man might just be the big turn off…

    XOXOXO



  125.  #125Annie on December 22, 2013 at 6:01 pm

    I’m going through the exact same problem b- is… And I feel like sh%t, 2 years dating and he seemed to be a nice guy, but a year ago I saw him texting a girl from his office that everytime I see her she gives me bad looks and doesn’t speak to me at all even though he knows her from college and I didn’t do anything to her. Anyway, a few days back, a friend of mine who knows this girl told me that she and her boyfriend broke up because of some fb message exchange that she was having with my boyfriend, that he was insisting on seeing her and they did went for drinks. SO… I broke up with him, I told him everything and he denies it completely, now he says that he doesn’t want to see me, I’m devastated and sad and I don’t know what to do, before all of the confrontation I thought I was going to be brave and strong enough to break up with him and now a part of me (maybe my nasty voice) tells me I screwed up really bad and another part is telling me I made the right choice… PLEASE HELP ME 🙁



  126.  #126Tereana on December 22, 2013 at 6:02 pm

    Hi Andrea –

    That sounds so great about your man being so good to you. But honestly, I am wondering why you are so upset about a human bodily function especially as a bodyworker. Our bodies have all kinds of things going on, and eliminating waste is one of them. Perhaps he was feeling bad and had diarrhea and couldn’t help it, and maybe he was embarrassed, or at least trying not to be. What if it was you – if you were at someone’s house and you were sick? Yes, it’s gross. It just seems like you are judging him for something that is totally natural. Are you not comfortable with your own bodily functions? I mean, I know that this can be a tricky area for many people, myself included. But it seems to me that when you are in an intimate relationship with someone, everything gets exposed. And I mean EVERYTHING. Not just the cool parts that you like. But the yucky stuff that you odn’t want to deal with, and suddenly your partner has to live with it, too, and they do that because they love you – explosive bowels or not. I mean, lol. It sounds so silly. I am tempted to say “juvenile” to be so hung up on this. And I feel surprised, because you have kids. You must have wiped snot off their faces and poo off their bum regularly. What if he was the “one” and you grew old together? You would eventually have to deal with much worse. Maybe your discomfort with this is a sign of something deeper – either about your feelings for him, or about you. I’m not sure which. And I don’t mean to be judgmental of YOU here, I’m just curious. You say that it’s a “social” concern, but it sounds more personal to me. Because “socially” you don’t really need to make a big deal about something like that. You could feel compassion as well, acceptance, and, to me, this is definitely NOT a dealbreaker. And you could just be afraid. You could be looking for any reason to cut him loose and say he’s “not good for you.” Having recently been on the other end of that stick, with someone who tends to run away, I say stick with him for a while, see how it goes.

    Bonus question: this incident, “The Messy Toilet Episode,” we’ll call it, happened in the context of you “giving” to him. You gave him a “free” massage for Christmas. Could it be more that you were feeling resentment because you were in the position of giving, rather than receiving, and feeling ever-so-slightly overfunctioning (or just functioning)? What if he had asked, and it was spontaneous? Would this situation have felt the same? I am just wondering….



  127.  #127Tereana on December 22, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    I am feeling so open and raw lately. I don’t know if this is a good thing or a bad thing. It just seems like no matter what I do – same or different – nothing changes. I am feeling so lonely, so overworked, and underpaid, and unsuccessful. I recently just learned that both my father and my brother have girlfriends, and while I am definitely happy for them, I feel jealous a little as well, and it makes me feel even more lonely and broken and unloved and unlovable. Like there is something very, very, very, deeply wrong about me. Everyone knows it, they just won’t say it to my face, because they know how much it would hurt me. But I don’t know what it is that they know (or I do know and I don’t want to), and so the pain of not knowing is growing more and more intense, daily, it seems. Or maybe they DON’T know. Maybe they just sense something. It seems to go under the radar. I feel just.. bereft. That’s the only word I can think of right now. I feel bereft.



  128.  #128Lily on December 22, 2013 at 6:59 pm

    Are any of you ladies just sick to death of sucking up to men?

    I read all these articles about how we are supposed to manipulate them and deal with them. They are what they are.

    Do we need them? Hmmm maybe for some good sex, and it seems that is often hard to find judging by the comments. Which sucks to be sure. Why are so many men such awful freaking lovers? Patriarchy. Their shit don’t stink.

    And we whine and wonder and worry and obsess and freak and analyze over their lame asses. Fuck blow them off like the redundant flies they are. I can get better loving from a plastic dildo.



  129.  #129Tereana on December 22, 2013 at 7:54 pm

    Emerson – yay! 🙂

    Omg, this is the *worst* time ever to have pms. Lol

    1. I wake up every day with this urge to write Lakeman a note. But then I’ll think my way out of it. It will float back through the day & I’ll compose letters in my head that I won’t even take the energy to write down, because that would be dangerous. I just keep telling my little note-writer that these messages are great in my head, but they have no business in the Real World, where even the nicest note would end up being very destructive…

    2. It’s before the holidays, my family is around and I’m feeling very on-edge.

    3. My emotions are all over. Anxious one minute, relaxed the next.

    I feel simultaneously glad that I’m single and also incredibly heartbroken and lonely on a daily basis.

    I am getting better at feeling my feels. Less good still at talking about them. But I’m working on it. Baby steps…



  130.  #130Femininewoman on December 22, 2013 at 8:30 pm

    ((((((((((((((Annie)))))))))))))))



  131.  #131Femininewoman on December 22, 2013 at 8:36 pm

    Hey CocoKisses!!!



  132.  #132LoveAlways on December 22, 2013 at 8:40 pm

    Progress – Remained peacefully silent when three women separately declared “I don’t want a man. Wrong focus, want the relations that will bring good feelings. This Siren has grown.



  133.  #133Indigo on December 22, 2013 at 8:42 pm

    Tereana 125,

    I can’t speak for Andrea, but for me, bodily functions, even gross ones, are more than fine in the people I love. I certainly would feel compassion if someone close to me was feeling ill in this way.

    What I would find it hard to feel compassion for is that they did not even attempt to clean up after themselves, or if they truly felt unable to (which just seems unlikely) to at least apologise to me and be honest about the situation. Pretending everything was fine and leaving me to clean up the mess feels selfish and disrespectful. Verging on dealbreaker territory.

    So for me it’s not the bodily function itself but rather what he did afterwards…



  134.  #134Indigo on December 22, 2013 at 8:44 pm

    (((((Tereana)))))



  135.  #135Indigo on December 22, 2013 at 8:54 pm

    I was looking at photos of C on his Facebook wall, and thinking how gorgeous and cute he is, and I thought… wait a minute, how does this happen so easily with me? Where I put a man on a pedestal and place them above myself when I am actually the prize? All it does is grow the sense of longing inside me. I intend to love myself extra hard this week and get comfortable with the idea that I am enough, I am lovely and unique and beautiful just being myself, and I don’t need outside sources to confirm that. I want to be so solid in that knowledge.

    It’s been really strange realizing that my friendships with guys actually don’t feel good. It feels like avoiding real intimacy and it feels like a plaster over the pain of loneliness, but not what I want at all. I feel like Tereana in #125, but I want to get real with myself. I want to feel fear and closeness, I don’t want to play it safe any more.



  136.  #136Millie on December 22, 2013 at 9:21 pm

    Well I guess #3 on my morning list I posted is no longer an issue. Mechanic finally initiated contact, which puts me at ease.



  137.  #137Emerson on December 22, 2013 at 11:19 pm

    Hmm… I feel repelled by men who aren’t nice to me. I feel soft and receptive when a man is kind and generous….
    Not the same feeling when he’s jokey and teasy….like one of the “guys”…it just kills the attraction for me…
    In other news…
    I have been breaking out with a couple of pimples but only on the left side of my body…I wonder what that means?

    I feel an awareness of a block… But the awareness means I’m able to address it and take it away…

    I don’t want to be blocked from a relationship….I’ve been blocking myself!

    How do I unblock it? Maybe one tool is a new vision board…or dig out my old one?



  138.  #138Andrea on December 22, 2013 at 11:19 pm

    Thanks for all the feedback. Yes, I felt as though this man who left his horribly gross “gift” for me in the bathroom just did not get it. He had no humility about it at all.
    But anyway… I avoided him last night. He asked me out but I said I was having a “girls night out.” That was true.
    Tonight he came by my apartment to pick up an order of wine that he’d placed with me and he gave me three gift cards. One for me and one for each of my daughters.
    He’s very thoughtful in some ways.
    I’m going away for Christmas Vacay so I won’t see him for at least a week.
    He might still be on my dating radar when I return home but he definitely is NOT the one.



  139.  #139daria on December 22, 2013 at 11:29 pm

    i love my anger



  140.  #140daria on December 22, 2013 at 11:34 pm

    Hugs Coco Kisses! i feel excited to see you



  141.  #141Andrea on December 22, 2013 at 11:41 pm

    Oh Tereana, I just your post and your questions to me. All good to contemplate for a moment.
    But… here’s something….
    It’s this cockiness about him. I have a huge full length mirror in my entry way at the studio. As he was leaving we both caught ourselves in the mirror. I had to laugh cause I was all disheavaled and slummy looking.
    I joked, “Oh is THAT what I look like?”
    And he goes, “Hey, you don’t see me complaining do you?”
    Why did that bother me? Why did it bother me even more so when I saw the horrific mess in the bathroom. ??
    I’m still pondering that. Trying to process why…
    It feels like, well, honestly, it feels like I am the one who is settling. I’m settling with him because he is so kind and generous to me. I feel inauthentic because I’m not attracted to him.
    I feel like I’m doing HIM the favour and that he should have been very embarrassed. He should have flustered and apologetic and he should have either tried to get out real quick, or tried to help clean it up… or at least mentioned something.
    But it was his attitude about everything… I felt like, “Where in the F does he get off being so cocky? What right does he have to come in here and think that I’m trying to impress him with my looks, when he left a mess in the bathroom like that.”
    I feel like he has gotten way way too familiar and comfortable with me. (We haven’t even had sex. And he has never been into my home.)
    I feel like my boundaries were very invaded and yes, maybe resentful that I was giving him FREE massage session and he has no clue how valuable that is, or how valuable I am, or…..
    (I’ll tell you what. I think I have really had an inflated idea of who I am and the type of men that I’m attracting. I’m being mirrored this arrogant, cocky icky person who thinks he’s hot shit because he can buy me things.)
    Crap. I have a lot of processing to do.



  142.  #142Shannon on December 23, 2013 at 3:16 am

    Andrea, 141:

    I felt so many ups and downs as I read your post. I heard “you don’t hear me complaining” in a completely different way than you did. I heard it as, “I accept and embrace you in any state you find yourself in. You can never be anything but beautiful to me.” It sounded beautiful to me and I felt kind of melty, lol.

    I wonder what fear it brought up in you; that was what I sensed in your negative reaction to that comment. And honestly, it sounds to me like the right word for you is “cocky”. I’m hearing a huge defense mechanism against love being activated.

    You repeatedly say that he’s so loving towards you.

    What I hear and feel from your post isn’t that he doesn’t value you, it’s that you don’t value you.. and a little overfunctioning.

    If you don’t feel valued for the massage you gave; then I feel personally like you over-gave. Your job is to appreciate yourself and be receptive. Your job is to respect yourself (because respect is a boy thing, so don’t demand he respect you). Your job is to stand by your boundaries and be emotionally honest.

    There was a really huge mess in the bathroom when you left. I felt TURNED OFF and ANGRY.

    Andrea, I want to get really straight with you. You are avoiding genuine intimacy… you sound SO terrified of it and you sound like you would do ANYTHING to rationalize avoiding it.

    Intimacy was fine when he was “being good”. Intimacy was fine when he was catering to you. But now you are sabotaging it, full-on. This gross incident requires a level of vulnerability and intimacy that could make it or break it. TELL HIM that you felt turned off. TELL HIM.

    Even if he’s not THE ONE, you are being faced with a terrible fear right here. You are being faced not with a disgusting toilet, Andrea… but with bald-faced fear of genuine intimacy that is so huge that I don’t think you can even see it. You are doing EVERYTHING to push love and intimacy away. Every excuse in the book. I’m too cocky, he’s too cocky… he’s too gross. He doesn’t appreciate me (not his job, his job is to give to you).

    Anything and everything except… go get vulnerable and emotionally naked with him. It almost seems like you’d rather see this man who makes you feel loved vanish than BE REAL WITH A MAN.

    Forgive me. I feel certain I overstepped my boundaries this time. But I think that we women need to start out by being real with each other about men in a REAL way. If you can’t see your terror, beautiful lady, maybe it will help to have it pointed out to you by someone who cares for you, and can.

    Or maybe it will make you throw the computer out the window and rage. :p



  143.  #143Shannon on December 23, 2013 at 3:42 am

    Lily, 128:

    I felt very angry when I read your post. Then I felt very sad.

    I feel duped by all the women in my life who have taught me to see men this way in the past. To dwell in anger and hatred and resentment. To expect men to JUST KNOW… And then I feel angry.

    If I had been raised to appreciate men as they are and how to be real with them, my life could have been completely different. I spent so much of my life unwilling to accept men as they are… and so I’ve spent so much of my life trying to be the man.

    I don’t believe you’ve read Rori’s work at all. That you cater to men shows that you don’t understand men and you certainly don’t accept them as they are… The basis of the program here is that catering to them is the problem to begin with!

    It’s a man’s job to fix, not ours. I was raised on Beauty and the Beast and how she fixed him… I was raised on ideas like, “The way to a man’s heart is through his stomach” and many other iconic comments about how we’re to be self-sacrificing in love.

    No WONDER you’re so angry! I am, too! You instinctively know that catering to them is wrong, and I applaud you for that! Kudos!

    The man in your life is to cater to you. Instinctively, we get that, and it’s no wonder we feel so angry and sad when we do the wrong things (like giving) and it DOESN’T WORK. Come to find out that the only thing his stomach is the way to, is his stomach (and possibly a gross potty incident). Who knew?!

    So I hear your anger, and I validate it. I feel that anger, too, if I allow myself to dwell on just how wrongly I was taught to deal with men. No wonder I find it hard to appreciate them… I’ve been so lied to about them! And it feels HORRIBLE to feel resentful all the time!

    Anyway… yes. They are what they are. If we decide to be Sirens around them instead of henpecking them…

    Then they are loving, giving, nurturing creatures who want to feel intimate with us and who want to give us the best lady-head imaginable.

    Men want to please us. Men want to shower us in things. They want to watch us moan with ecstasy. Nothing turns a man on more than a woman who’s ENJOYING IT.

    That’s the lesson in Rori’s teachings.

    I am grateful to finally learn that I don’t have to be the man. I can accept men for what they are and quit working so hard to fix them!!

    Oh, what a relief it is!



  144.  #144Corin on December 23, 2013 at 5:35 am

    Shannon

    I’m up for some of that best lady head imaginable!



  145.  #145Emerson on December 23, 2013 at 6:03 am

    Good morning sirens in hope you all have a good day… I am envisioning what I want and how I would feel if I had it and starting my day this way…



  146.  #146Andrea on December 23, 2013 at 6:37 am

    Shannon…. eeewwww….. I feel such a churning tug in the pit of my belly.

    eeeewwww…. actually be honest with this guy??

    eeeewwww, ugh! There are so many men that I have never been honest with. I’ve just put up with the icky stuff, or avoided him when it was too much.

    Oh my! To actually just say, “I feel so turned off by your smell, by your uncouth behaviour, by the way you eat, by that mess you left in my bathroom. I just feel so turned off that I can’t see you as anything more than a pal.”

    He leans in for a kiss and I just grip myself and go ahead and peck him on the lips cause I feel like I owe him that much for all his generosity.

    But to just say, “I feel so grateful for these gift cards, but I feel turned off by your bad breath. I can’t kiss you when your breath is so bad. Is there something you can do about that?”

    You’re so right. I’m terrified to say that. Why?

    In a past relationship, I hated how my boyfriend kissed. I hated it. But I just took it because I felt I owed him that. He always wanted validation around his sexual prowess, and I made him feel like he was the king who rocked my world, while in actuality it never was that great. I just cringed and accepted it.

    When he dumped me, I was floored! I felt like.. “What in the world!!?? All this time I put up with your stinking love making, and you’re going to dump ME??”

    But he never knew how unsatisfactory he was. This current CD has no clue how much his sloppiness turns me off. I don’t want to hen peck him, but you’re right… Holy crap.. I need to get real with how I really feel and then own those feelings and I guess I need to realize that those feelings are good, they are right, they are mine… it’s what I feel.

    How I feel just thinking about this man: Turned off physically, but grateful for his “friendship”.



  147.  #147Shannon on December 23, 2013 at 6:52 am

    Well, Andrea, I think that you’ve struck pay dirt here in regards to your progress. 🙂

    Your ex didn’t want you to lie to make him feel like a King, dear one. He wanted to REALLY make YOU feel like a queen… but because you lied, he knew you just felt icky, but he never got to try to fix that… you never let him. =(

    This guy will (or maybe already does) sense that you feel icky. But you would rather lose someone who’s sweet and kind to you, than tell him how he can be your King and make YOU PERSONALLY feel like his QUEEN.

    He’s doing is best, but he can’t read your mind. If you are turned off by his bad breath, how can he ever know you’d feel like a queen if he brushed right before kissing you? How can he FIX HIMSELF if he doesn’t have CLUE ONE how you actually, truly, honestly feel?

    Maybe it’s easier to reject him and sabotage love than to be rejected by telling him the truth–better to be left for who you aren’t… than for who you are?



  148.  #148Indigo on December 23, 2013 at 9:06 am

    Wow Shannon, not that everything you said I agreed with/was relevant to me, but you really shook some things loose for me with regard to how I am avoiding intimacy.

    Thank you.

    Like Andrea, I’ve usually just tried to grin and bear it, or then avoid them if what they are doing is too much. I’m terrified of being honest with a man in many ways.



  149.  #149Tereana on December 24, 2013 at 7:25 pm

    Indigo – thank you for the hugs!!

    Andrea – whoa, that was super cool processing! I love that you caught yourselves in the mirror and then the image of him mirroring you. Yes, it does feel like the physical things that bother you might be pointing toward something deeper that’s hard for you to put a finger on. Or maybe you did put a finger on it with “settling.” Cocky or not, he may just not be the right guy for you and that’s okay…



  150.  #150Emma on December 28, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    Hi Rori,

    I hope it’s ok to post this here, I don’t know where else to post and felt this was relevant in this blog.

    I was in a 6 month relationship with a man I met online. It was my idea of the perfect relationship. He was moving things forward, I was being a siren and opening my heart to him, he asked me for the commitment, we both loved each other etc. Then out of the blue one weekend I felt something was wrong that he was hiding something from me. I am glad I listen to my intuition which made me feel compelled to check his phone. On it I found an exchange of texts with his ex that made me feel hurt. I know he was having issues at work and was under a lot of stress but I didn’t feel comfortable with the texts and so I asked him to leave.

    3 months on he is back in contact with me. I am online and CD and taking great care of myself. He says he loves me and will do anything to get me back. He also insists that the texts between him and his ex were a joke they have and he would never cheat on me. He also added that he would never say anything like that to her in a sexual way because she is in a relationship with someone else (which I don’t feel I believe because at the time this all happened he said she was single)

    Now I just have a question for you as he wants to meet up and talk about it in person and wants to see if we can work things out. I agreed as I feel if for no other reason this will be a good opportunity for me to practice feeling messages. I know when your talking with a man it won’t help the situation if you blame him (even if you feel he is in the wrong) I practice feeling messages all the time and I am amazed at how powerful they are, he knows I’m circular dating and taking care of myself and feeling good. I feel I should hear him out. I feel this will be the opportunity for me to see if I still have any feelings for him but if nothing else I want to have the opportunity to practice feeling messages in a new way. So my question to you is how do I say to this man you lied me about several things? Also when I asked him to leave he said he was going to break up with me because he realised he doesn’t love me anymore. now he says he loves me and misses me and will do anything to get me back in his life. Oh and my favourite, I only invited to x so you wouldn’t feel excluded not because I actually wanted to take you. Now it’s like he can’t breath without me. Which I feel good about since I have been practicing your air tool. I dont feel he is a toxic man. So please Rori, how do I say I feel I’m not getting the truth here without blaming him as such? Eg, how do I say your lying about your ex, is she or is she not in a relationship with someone else? or why would you say you didn’t love me and now suddenly will do anything to get me back?

    thank you

    Em



  151.  #151Dominique on December 29, 2013 at 9:00 am

    Emma – You don’t really know for sure he’s lying. And snooping is NEVER a good idea, for things taken out of context in this way is easily open to misinterpretation.

    That said, my question to you is how do YOU feel? Do YOU want him back? If yes then you need to accept what he says. You need to love him just as he is even nothing ever changes.

    You could say to him something like- I feel confused and uncertain. Can you help me with this? Or – Everything that happened recently between us has me feeling weird, hesitant. I don’t want to feel this way with you. Can you help me with this?

    If you don’t want him back, then you don’t really need to discuss this any further.

    xxoo



  152.  #152Emma on December 29, 2013 at 12:08 pm

    Hi Dominique,

    Thank you for your reply. When I saw Rori had new coaches I picked your link and subscribed to your emails which I’m loving So firstly thank you!

    At the moment I don’t know how I feel about him, I loved him and our relationship was amazing but I feel he lost my trust and without me getting that back I don’t feel I can have a relationship with him.

    As far as not knowing if he is lying or not, he has told me conflicting things, when we broke up he said “I don’t love you anymore” now he says “I always loved you” he said “my x is single and living alone” now that I brought up the texts I found he says “it was a joke he wouldn’t do that as she is in a relationship” etc. I feel if I’m going to take him back and try things again these questions needs answers

    thank you again
    Emma



  153.  #153Emma on December 29, 2013 at 12:34 pm

    Ooo I feel I need to add one more thing, if he is serious about loving me and wanting me back so badly why Is his online dating profile still up? he knows mine is because I told him my speech about how it didn’t feel good to me to be exclusive with him until I know how I feel so it feels good to keep my options open but he is the one perusing me, saying he will do anything to get me back. BUT still has a dating profile?



  154.  #154Dominique on December 29, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    Emma – You’re so welcome, and I feel delighted you’re enjoying my work which I offer with much love.

    Actually I’ve been a coach for several years as well as a friend of Rori’s. It’s at her invitation that I’m here so much and am able to post links to my articles sometimes.

    Trust is a difficult one. Once damaged, it can feel almost impossible to get back whether it’s a real reason for feeling this way or whether it’s imagined. Your mind doesn’t differentiate well between the two. You will have to really want to regain this trust in order to achieve it, and he will have to want to win this in you.

    Your question is a fair one about his dating profile. So if you do decide you want to give this another go, you can try saying something like this – I would like to try again, yet I won’t feel comfortable with this unless we’re both all in. What do you think?

    And if you seriously want to give this another try, you too can take your profile down. If you’re going to be exclusive, you both need to be exclusive.

    If you’re simply dating, then this is different.

    If he says yes he’s serious about his intentions and doesn’t mention his profile, how about adding – what about dating profiles?

    You might also say – I don’t want a relationship with anything but complete openness and honesty. Even if the truth might hurt, I would rather hear the truth then possibly hear otherwise at another time.

    xxoo

    The above s not accusing him, not making him wrong, yet it states clearly what you want.



  155.  #155Emma on December 29, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    Thank you, I am enjoying your newsletter emails and feel excited when I get a new one.

    this all sounds perfect!! thank you very much. This is exactly what I needed to know before I agree to meeting up with him in person.

    I feel so grateful for this blog and your replies. thank you again