Is He Just A Friend?

Untitled design (14)

newThe Question:

“Rori, I need some major advice. I’ve been seeing this guy since July, we go out together we go to eat, we talk everyday – all day while he at work – but now all the sudden he says he looks at as if I was just a friend and not someone to be in a relationship with.

So what do I do after putting all this time and effort into him. He knows that I’m in love with him. Broken”

The Answer:

Dear Broken, So sorry you’re finding yourself in this situation.

Please use it to learn never again to become exclusive with any man until he fully commits to you.

That means you date other men up until he proposes.


That’s how you do it.

You don’t sleep with anyone else, but you go on coffee dates, lunch dates, out for fun, etc.

The only way to see if this man can switch from friendship to romance is to walk away.

Tell him he’s right, agree with him.

Say you no longer know what you feel for him (this is TRUE – even though you believe you’re in love with him…in my world, it’s not possible to love someone who doesn’t love you…), and step away completely.

That means no talking, no lunch, no dinner.

You have to DATE OTHER MEN!

And you don’t have time in your life for a male friend. This is absolutely true.

My guess is you’ll hear from him again. He may start chasing you down – he may not want to give up on the “friendship” so easily.

Just be calm and say that you’re looking for romance and a real relationship, and being friends with him is making it hard for you to move on.

Say you’ll contact him and be able to be friends later on, when you’re with a man who wants the kind of relationship you do.

Do it with a smile, very casually, no crying, no begging and let’s see what happens.

Love, Rori

Posted in


  1.  #1Femininewoman on April 27, 2015 at 9:03 am

    I feel a groan just reading that question.

  2.  #2RileyTheOwl on April 27, 2015 at 2:32 pm

    LOL Feminine Woman, me too…. Oh my gosh that question is so relevant to my life right now… Sighh.

  3.  #3IamHis on April 27, 2015 at 4:12 pm

    Break it off! Run! It will eventually feel liberating and empowering, I promise! πŸ™‚

  4.  #4Linda on April 27, 2015 at 4:13 pm

    I absolutely love what Rori said. I mean LOVE it. Its RockStar all the way.

    Before I even opened to read more I thought…” walk away” “get your energy out of there. I feel like I get it. For the first time in my life down in my core. I get it.

    The “guy speech”… I’ve been on the receiving end of the it more than once. Yeah it felt like the bottom of my world dropped out.. but it led me to the place I am now.

    I sincerely am looking for a man who is able to take better care of me than I can. I keep raising the bar… it all started with “painting myself with love” .

  5.  #5Millie on April 27, 2015 at 6:27 pm

    Feminine woman…. Me too.

  6.  #6Indigo on April 27, 2015 at 9:01 pm

    Did the guy in Broken’s letter give her any indication that he wanted to be more than friends, that he was interested in her romantically? Just talking to someone all day while he’s at work sounds iffy to me… if he’s not at least calling or texting her in the evening. For me I know that unless a guy specifically asks me out on a date or makes a move on me physically, I would not make any assumptions about whether he is interested in me.

  7.  #7Mistea1 on April 28, 2015 at 4:44 am

    Thanks, I needed this, especially today.

  8.  #8waterfall on April 28, 2015 at 4:54 am

    Ahhh, I need to do this. I’m not sure being friends with D is such a good idea. Although I don’t really see him very much at the moment. I find keeping my barriers tough when it comes to him, but hopefully I am getting there…

    Saturday meeting new people really cheered me up. It broadened my horizons and taught me to stay open minded. I really will use it as a catalyst to moving on with my life and meeting new people.

    I guess there is a part of me that worries that people will “go off me” and this needs to be healed…

  9.  #9Mandy on April 28, 2015 at 12:41 pm

    I was SO scared of dating other men. J is very jealous but check THIS out…

    Sirens…I feel SO juicy…so, so so juicy! I feel the need to share since it’s rare for me to just feel this way without feeling my way into it…

    One of my very best male friends (a CD if you will) just told me over the phone he thinks I would’ve been a better match for him than his current gf. He also told me he thinks about me, you know, in that way. I have another CD in another state who comes around sometimes, still texting me some juicy texts, and he says he’s even dating someone, lol.

    Apparently I’m someone who my male friends think of when they are with someone else. Maybe they wonder how different it would be to be with someone who has the Siren tools and uses them. I can’t help but think that. That there’s a draw because I have the knowledge I have, and I use it. It doesn’t seem to be a huge coincidence.

    I feel very pretty in my summer dress today, it is white and very light and ruffly. Wearing things like that remind me how incredibly feminine I am, and I somehow remain soft while wearing it. Scents and fabrics have always inspired that for me, I take the world in through touch. It is so GOOD to feel so yummy and forget about my little belly pooch and my uneven skin spots…lol. πŸ™‚ I am juicy as is. πŸ™‚ I am loving myself as is, Right now. πŸ™‚

    Like I said, I was SO scared, I didn’t even talk to anyone, but I realized it’s easy, these men are RIGHT under your nose. Use them to get better at opening up and staying soft and juicy and fun. πŸ™‚

    I use the tool with my male friends for this kind of help, because I trust them (and I do have the hots for both of them, lol), but I personally need to get better at talking to strangers, I get so scared they might be a criminal (irrational fear there).

    I remember when i first moved in with J a huge wave of men from my past saw my juiceiness and tried as hard as they could to woo me! One man drove all the way from Texas to take me out to dinner and have a romantic night with me. J was very gentlemanly about it, I was not his girlfriend yet so he shook the man’s hand and said have fun, but ultimately I came back to J and said “You’re WAY more fun!”. πŸ™‚

    Choosing is FUN. I love having suitors. πŸ˜€ It’s like old times when it was okay to have three men coming to you to choose from, like in the movies set during the Victorian Era πŸ™‚

  10.  #10Millie on April 28, 2015 at 2:54 pm

    Mandy— great post πŸ™‚

  11.  #11Millie on April 28, 2015 at 3:28 pm

    I’ve been sifting through myself. Looking for my holes, trying to figure out why I’m not confident enough… Why I’m so attached to my man, his attentions… I think because I have never been in a successful relationship, I have attached meaning about who I am to that. Negative meaning. So this guy walking out, just confirms all the negative meanings for me. It was a nice 2 1/2 months off from believing those things about myself. His attention changed how I viewed myself and confirmed new things about me. This thinking is really sick because I’m looking to others to define me. And my reflection in them is how I see myself. I can see why this thinking has failed me…. But I cannot escape it. Unfortunately I feel caught in a web of my own self critical eye… He keeps returning to my thoughts.. It’s like my mind won’t let him go even when I scream inside for those voices to shut up.

  12.  #12Dixie on April 28, 2015 at 5:09 pm

    Mandy, I love your post!

    SteadyCD, although I don’t feel particularly soft around him, has been in contact recently, about a work referral. I was working last night, and very tired… and I was feeling a bit like a happy cat, selfish in my peacefulness. He said: “Just want you to know that I think you are very beautiful and intelligent”, “I know you don’t plan to marry me tomorrow. But maybe you will change your mind next week”, and “Really smitten by you, but won’t push it”.

    He really was being sweet, but I felt a little… Well, mentally I took a big step back. And the crazy thing is that when D calls, my heart just lights up like a ferris wheel!

    Its funny how my heart responds so differently! But I’m going to practice with steadyCD, and learn how to let his energy come at me, rather than standing there with an umbrella, lol

  13.  #13Lovergirl on April 28, 2015 at 5:21 pm

    Dixie 12-

    Ahh…this is how I feel with Chicago vs. S, or really anyone other than S- they get the umbrella, lol. S calls or texts and I am all smiles and bright as a Christmas tree. I feel bad too because Chicago will say things about how great he feels with me, and I’m like huh?

    He went back to Chicago today but he is buying me a shawl because I never have a jacket when we go out on cool nights. He told me to find one online and he would buy it so I did. He’s been super nice, I just don’t feel it. :/

  14.  #14Dixie on April 28, 2015 at 5:54 pm

    Yes, I understand completely Lovergirl… The funny thing is that just as I can “feel” SteadyCD’s energy towards me, I can see how this is mirrored between me and D.

    D is exceptionally sweet and attentive, but not moving towards a commitment, just as I am not moving anything forward with steadyCD. The one thing I’ve learned/am learning is that I am so steady with or without either or them. Funny, right? I’ve been on a steady high at work, signed up for the Chicago marathon again, and just learning to enjoy who comes this way. I really feel that everyone comes into my life a lesson, hence my relaxing now with D, and my learning to let SteadyCD.

    I have carved out this satisfying life, and steadyCD’s energy feels a bit confining… It makes me want to fly free, not fly to D, fly free.

  15.  #15Dixie on April 28, 2015 at 5:55 pm

    Oops, must be tired… Left out a whole bunch of words there! πŸ™‚

  16.  #16Dixie on April 28, 2015 at 6:07 pm


    Something made me think of you recently… Our school hosted a spoken word poetry workshop and 60 students signed up on their own. Obviously I was crazy excited by it (my colleague and I were literally rocking on our heels with happiness) but the best part was that as a result of that workshop, 6 students made it to the region finals. It was the most inspiring and giddy feeling ever, to see these 30 brave, fearless, authentic teens reciting their own work. I was literally holding my breath the whole way through! They were brave, funny, real, and just…. I can feel this energy coursing through me right now just remembering it! There was a DJ, and about 150 audience members and these kids just killed it! I saw an old colleague there, who I adore, and he’s known me for donkeys years; he said that I looked so happy, and that I was just a bundle of energy. It was just an evening of pure exhilaration…

    Anyhow, Andrea, I was thinking of you and your poetry recitations, and how brave you are!!!

  17.  #17IamHIs on April 28, 2015 at 6:09 pm

    I feel curious.

    So, I try not to reveal too much of myself on here, because I feel like I have a very distinct writing style in blogging, social media, etc. Also, paranoia.

    but anyway…

    One of my two jobs involves working with kids.

    and there’s this extremely good-looking guy who I assumed was married because he just has that “super mature and married” vibe about him.

    He is very…authoritative with kids. I’m much more playful, and kind of act like I’m one of them.

    I was lost at work today, going from room to room trying to figure out where I was supposed to be and I came to where he was with a bunch of other staff and he just took charge. He offered to take me to find out where I was supposed to be, and then to take me there.

    I felt very taken aback. At first I was like, “Oh. You don’t have to do that.” But then I remembered that guys like doing that sort of thing, so I just followed his lead.

    He was SO serious. Like, “how can we get this woman the help and knowledge of where she needs to be?” in this deep manly voice.

    There was much disorganization and confusion, and to be honest, they still didn’t know exactly where my assigned group of kids were and where I was supposed to be with them.

    So, I found other work to do.

    But I looked down at his hand and there wasn’t a ring, which shocked me!

    Some men just really give off a married vibe. I’m usually pretty right on about these kinds of things.

    and it was weird because I could tell he was attracted to me. I did look nice today in my red dress. My dad even complimented me.

    I just feel weirded out when a mature, hot guy notices me. I was goofing off with the kids later on in the large room he was in with me, and I have no idea how he felt about that since he was behind me, but it just feels so weird, because I’m such a goofball, and I definitely haven’t seen that side of him, yet at least. He seems like pure, take charge, authoritarian.

    I still can’t decide if I want kids or not. My ovaries and sappy family side of me are screaming at me that I do, and soon, but it feels like a huge, scary, exhausting responsibility that lasts 20 years or more, with an exhausting, heart-breaking love that lasts forever.

    Where did I get this concept that love feels exhausting? Does it have to feel exhausting?

    The first time I fell in love in the stereo-typical sense, where I thought it was “it” and I was so thrilled and worshipped him but also felt terrified of something that I’m still not even sure what it was,

    man, I can barely remember…

    but back to raising kids. It would feel good to have a more authoritative father figure in my kids lives, since I tend to be so playful and enjoy them so much in their natural “being a kid” selves.

    But I think strictness is so important in the sense that they know to listen to you when an emergency comes up or there’s something dangerous.

    I think, stricter until they respect your authority, but more loose as they get older and start to understand how the world works.

    It just shocked me that someone that…mature and authoritative would show attraction to me…


  18.  #18Moon on April 29, 2015 at 5:24 am

    Dear Sirens,

    I read you every day and your stories are empowering to me. I have a question. I feel confused sometimes. I know that CD’ing and leaning back are the way to go. But how do you know when it’s enough? When it is time to cut them off? The thing is if I lean back I keep thinking there is hope, but sometimes I feel so angry and tired that I want to just give up and say please don’t contact me again. What do you think?

    Thank you lovely Sirens.

  19.  #19Millie on April 29, 2015 at 7:14 am

    Hi Moon!!

    I would like to hear more about your situation… I don’t feel qualified to give advice, but I’d love to hear what you are experiencing that is making you feel this way.

  20.  #20Mistea1 on April 29, 2015 at 7:41 am

    Moon 18,

    I can’t give advice and for that I would refer you to Rori’s tools and her new coaches who you can access for free right now.

    I can however, sumarize my story as I believe I’ve come to the end, sadly. . . .

    As a full siren we have the right to just say ‘no’ at any time for any reason. We observe and if the male’s preening and efforts to win us don’t meet with our approval then they are gone. I knew within 3 short contacts that MusicTd was not appropriate. But did I heed my inner self, intuitive voice? No. Was my self confidence lacking? Was I a door mat?

    But as often is the case, there were extenuating circumstances illustrative of the lessons I had to learn. I could have still said no but I wanted to learn these lessons and maybe ‘get the guy’ anyway. We can tell ourselves many stories, and I’m a good storyteller. The sirens here were so helpful in calling me on my stuff. Thanks to all for that.

    The other thing about being on this site is deciding (maybe with a coaches help) whether or not the guy is toxic or if he is just clueless. This is very important and worth investigating thoroughly. This is where the price of this site’s tools and help is really worth it.

    This has been one of the most painful periods of my life. I still have my life, I’m grateful for my lessons learned, I am left with a feeling of gratefulness and love in my heart toward MusicTd even though there is no contact any more.

    I still have a bit of a neurochemical addiction reaction toward him but it is lessening and I’ve learned to be more aware of this. I had the last reception yesterday and thought he might be around. I acknowledge that I still hoped things would change (ack). He was not there and there was an overriding chaotic feeling as I looked around the hall.

    My great draw toward him was the music. He is a world class, fantastic, classical, musician. He can put any emotion into the music and I got to hear the beauty as well as the destructive aspects. Now I’m looking for performers who don’t manipulate the music with their own injurious personality effects. Course I know we all have them but hopefully the performer meets the performance with good will and well meaning towards the audience. I have performed myself and maybe it is now time for me to play with emotion and good will intent in a performance that I do.

    Remember, you can just say no. Then go on to circular date. That’s what it is there for. Learn and follow Rori’s tools and the coaches. You won’t go wrong and your self-esteem will greatly improve. Best of wishes to you. Your siren side is starting to show itself, I can tell!!

  21.  #21Mistea1 on April 29, 2015 at 7:51 am

    Moon 18,

    One of the new coaches that I tried is Sami Wunder. She was sooooo helpful and focused in on what I needed to do to understand and fix this issue. Thanks, Sami!

  22.  #22Indigo on April 29, 2015 at 9:18 am

    Moon 18,

    We are really lucky here on this blog to have coaches who pop in now and again, and maybe one of them will give more input on this.

    The way I see it, only you can make that call. Only you know where your boundaries lie, and what you are willing/able to tolerate, while still keeping your heart and your options open to what else may be out there. If you feel anxious about it, I find having a timeline is very helpful. I know Leigha recommends this.

  23.  #23Lovergirl on April 29, 2015 at 10:18 am

    I feel curious about how a siren would treat a man’s birthday in my situation? S’s birthday is in a couple of weeks and I’m not sure how to handle it. I don’t want to overfunction but I don’t want to just ignore it either. Last year for my bday he took me to the Cheesecake factory.

    For his birthday, I did nothing, but we had just met. He actually took me out with his friends that night and they were buying him drinks but he paid for me. Then he spent the night at my place and took me out for breakfast. πŸ™‚

    This year though, its more confusing. My birthday is in August (Im a Virgo, hes a Taurus, supposed to be a great match, lol).

  24.  #24Dominique on April 29, 2015 at 11:28 am

    Moon – one thing which is important to remember and hold close to your heart is that circular dating and leaning back are first and foremost about you, as ways to discover who you really are inside, what and who you enjoy and fill you up in good feeling ways, what’s okay and what isn’t, and so on.
    And the more you practice BEing like this as much as possible, the more you can heal yourself, the more clarity yo wwill gain making choices or decisions like these far easier.
    I have written at length about this and would feel delighted to link some articles for you when I return home on Sunday – if you’re interested. Please let me know.
    Sending you much love.

  25.  #25Dominique on April 29, 2015 at 11:37 am

    L overgirl – most men don’t care so much about their own birthdays or even gifts of any kind for the various holidays though most women find them very important. Maybe remembering men tend to feel best in doing and giving when in masculine energy, and women tend to feel best in being and receiving mode when in feminine energy though discovering this inside ourselves can feel challenging given how many of us have been conditioned.
    Can you sink deeply into yourself, and see how you feel inside around this, what you really want to do? From as pure a place as you can find where there’s as little “should” as possible.

  26.  #26Sirana on April 29, 2015 at 1:20 pm

    Mandy – I love your post. It reminds me to bring the attention back to me. Feeling pretty is always re-directing for me. So hard to do sometimes when you feel down but always more productive.

  27.  #27Sirana on April 29, 2015 at 1:26 pm

    Millie – I can completely relate. My self esteem has been so low because I base my self worth on his opinion of me. I know that is wrong but when you hear statements like “you disappoint me”, it makes you feel horrible. I realized the other day that I felt like he had taken away my self-esteem. I know that is wrong and I instead gave it up, but that is how I have felt. I have been waiting for him to “give it back” to me. It is not his to give. I can not wait on him to approve of me. I was once so confident and now I struggle every day to feel good. I know I am in there somewhere but I can’t seem to break through.

  28.  #28Sophie on April 29, 2015 at 1:42 pm

    Can I have some back to basics advice for a script please? I need words for when the ball is batted back with ‘I’m around so get in touch and we’ll meet up”.i already feel uncomfortable ‘cos it feels chasy energy when I have to let him know if i’m in the town at all (cos he’s asked me to). This is necessarily dating, just general siren practice.

    True feelings: I feel uncomfortable. It feels chasy and in his face. I don’t know what he’s doing so I don’t want to be imposing?! I do have things to fill my time but it would feel nice to see him.

    How do I flip this in a bright and breeezy, no big deal or intense way so I’m not feeling the anxiety or the effort and can respond to the message (or do I not respond?)? I could just lean back ’til he messages again…advice please – I feel stuck on these foundational things and I want my energy out of there (the stuck, making big deal out of small things place). Any ideas?

  29.  #29Dixie on April 29, 2015 at 3:08 pm

    Sophie, his message sounds fairly loosy goosy, easy breezy to me. He’s not asking you out or making plans – he’s asking you to lean forward.

    I sometime say to casual friends “Let me know when in you’re in this area” but if I really wanted to spend time with that person, I’d definitely make more definite plans. I’d set a date and time.

    Personally, I may not even respond to that message, enjoy whatever plans I made, and if he calls, great, if not, STILL have a great time!

    I agree – leaning forward feels icky.

  30.  #30Dixie on April 29, 2015 at 3:16 pm


    I love your advice to Lovergirl! I am in a similar situation but have decided to do what feels right, not what I “should” do. Sending a message/gift to a dear friend feels so rich and warm and satisfying but sending a message/gift to a man, because I “should” , or because deep down there is the hope of some sort of reciprocation (even affection) feels the very opposite of unsatisfying.

    I really, really, do LOVE these boards as a learning space!

  31.  #31Lavender on April 29, 2015 at 4:12 pm

    I posted this on the other thread, but I meant to post it in the most recent one.

    What do you all think of the following script?

    I feel very confused about the boundaries of our relationship. I don’t like feeling worried about every time a male friend texts me or wants to hang out when I feel that the intentions are innocent. Yet I feel like I’m expected to be okay with your female friends whom you’ve admitted have expressed more than just friendship desires with you. What do you think?

  32.  #32lovetodance on April 29, 2015 at 4:19 pm

    sophie….how about batting it back to him…
    ‘ohhh it would feel nice to see you…make a plan and i’ll meet you….!’

    this way he either will or won’t and you won’t be the one chasing….and knowing if he doesn’t step up…you are better off knowing this and not having your energy tied up in this situation….

    how does that feel?

  33.  #33Starla on April 29, 2015 at 4:32 pm

    Lovergirl, if it were me, I would ignore his bday entirely unless he brings it up or contacts you on that day. That’s just me. :-). On the other hand, i showered my guy with meals and affection all bday weekend, and it did not backfire in any way. We weren’t official at the time, but i just like to be like that on birthdays. I made a big deal Of his bdaY. However, he was constantly coming towards me and had gone all out for valentines day the month before , and he certainly was pursuing me for long term relationship now that i look back. Really, each situation is unique so there’s just no rule for his bday. But if I were in your shoes I would treat s like a cat and just see if he comes to you.

  34.  #34Millie on April 29, 2015 at 5:08 pm

    Sophie– If a man said that to me, I would just respond with “Great- my schedule is pretty busy right now, having a plan ahead of time works best for me.” And leave it at that. Usually, they respond with “What day is best for you?” After that…I let them get more specific with the date and time. I do find that some guys don’t really “get it” when it comes to making plans. Maybe they are used to girls that take the reins. I don’t know. Hope that helps a little bit!

  35.  #35Millie on April 29, 2015 at 5:13 pm

    Sirana– does your man tell you that you disappoint him? Aw, I want to wrap my arms around you. It sounds very refreshing to hear that we give our self-esteem up rather than have it taken from us. If we choose to value ourselves…we would not give it up so easily. We would fight and hold on to it. I’m sorry you are going through a difficult time. My guy never said anything like that to me, but I felt rejection through his words and actions.

  36.  #36Sophie on April 29, 2015 at 5:29 pm

    Thank you Dixie and lovetodance – i’m not going to do anything just yet – poor sleep in last two days and reserving my limited energy is my main priority. I agree Dixie … I have a lot of ‘doing his thinking for him reasons for breezy behavour’ ha but that’s energy I haven’t got and can’t be bothered expending. (I realized I missed the not out of necessarily dating earlier too – we are not dating but there’s context – isn’t there always!) I also feel sure lovetodance that telling him i’d feel better to have a plan is a way to go and handing it back to him … it’s his city not mine and I don’t know what he’s already intending with friends/work. I am still refusing anything that feels like effort or using too much of my precious energy – it’s in limited supply. It would feel better but right now I feel tired, so…I shall see how it unfolds later – thank you for your input, grateful as always. Even that, is enough energy thinking bout that situation for now ha. I hope you ladies are well? I did write LTD on the last thread I think x

  37.  #37Mandy on April 29, 2015 at 8:43 pm

    Thanks, Dixie and Millie πŸ™‚

    Dixie, the things that SteadyCD said to you give me goosebumps. The good kind! If a man said that to me…and I wasn’t already in love with him…it would definitely spark that in my heart and make me wonder about him, if he would be a good match, husband, father, etc…but this one definitely seems to want to crash his ship on your rock as it were πŸ™‚

    That’s what happened with ah…I’ll call him BiffleCD, he just told me he thinks I’d be a better match for him than his current girlfriend, as well as he being a better match for me than J, and the feeling went into my chest and did that buterfly thing, and I pondered it for a second…him? He’s my friend…but him? And something DID stir. I mean, if I thought about BiffleCD possibly giving me a kiss…oh boy, I feel like a pre-teen again wondering what it would be like for a boy to kiss me. That’s unlike me. But I think I just figured out a love-trigger for myself…just a guy saying to me he thinks I would be good for him.
    It feels like he’s saying I am healthy and wanted and sought-after, and that is the best feeling in the world. Juicy and colorful.

    But point being, I can run on that compliment for like two weeks, lol, he’s very attractive and smart, and a very good person…an all-around catch, and I’ve always thought so, but I hid it, since we connected on a friend level first. I’m not sure what it is I’ve triggered in him. Maybe just some sexual triggers. I don’t know. He calls me every day…he knows I’ll listen to him, and he knows I am at home, probably alone. I really like it though, it’s enough to boost my self-confidence a few notches, lol. J is very understanding about friends so there’s no problem there but I think confiding in a friend may be a love-trigger for BiffleCD. I’m totally okay with that.

    It also puts in perspective the other CD I chat with online sometimes…he is very sexual, and says he dislikes monogamy, so I’ll call him PolyCD, lol…
    Biffle actually cares about me, Poly just wants a very very nice thrill like a love affair. PolyCD would be an interesting one to see what the love trigger was there, but I’m not sure what he’d be like romantically. I think I’ve been way too sexual with him.

    In any case…I hope this will keep me SANE with the relationship Im in but don’t know what to do about πŸ˜›

  38.  #38Tereana on April 29, 2015 at 9:20 pm

    Mandy – your #9: I love it!

    I also love Rori’s response above.

    And IAmHis – if you are curious, ask him! Or you could say, “Do you have any kids?” To start the conversation. I have a male coworker who is happily married and he doesn’t wear a ring. He has one, it just irritates his hand. So I’m not saying the guy you noticed isn’t single. But it doesn’t hurt to ask more questions. Plus, guys love it when you show genuine interest in them – married or not : )

  39.  #39Indigo on April 29, 2015 at 9:23 pm


    I would keep it really light “I’m free on Tuesday and Friday, it would feel great to see you!” And leave it at that. Let him step forward at that point if he will.

  40.  #40Tereana on April 29, 2015 at 9:27 pm

    Ladies, something must be going right. I keep thing I’ve screwed various things up. But then, on the other hand, I timd myself that I’m willing to walk away if V is not showing me respect or if there are too many things that don’t sit well with me.

    I was able to talk to him, finally, and he told me how attracted he feels every time he sees me. When he says this, I just smile and look back at him.

    I’m expressing how I feel to him, and he is listening and responding.

    And I read a great piece of advice recently. It was for married couples, but I think applies here and in a case where you want to be married or committed: “Ignore the bad, praise the good.” It’s harder than it sounds. And it’s easy to get caught up in things you don’t like. I’ve done it a ton. But I even employed this today. I was going to send a message to V to “clarify” something I was thinking. But instead I deleted all the stuff that was opinionated. I decided it made him look wrong. Instead I just sent him my address and a few hearts. And he responded happy.

    I think I’m learning to be a better partner : ) (I hope:)

  41.  #41Sophie on April 29, 2015 at 9:33 pm

    Thanks Millie – i’m still umming and ahhing bout how to reply ha – he’s been pretty on it (last two times i’ve been in his territory) but this time threw that in there – dunno if he’s tired/busy/not wanting to be in my face dunno but i’m laughing ‘cos it’s like men saying ‘yeah you got my digits’ all casual or llamame which they did in South America….mmmm just to find the right words… right now I just feel like saying ‘okay cool’ and then seeing how I feel later … is that setting myself up for more confusion? argh the simplest things! Now I feel frustrated for the overanalysing – it’s energy I don’t want to direct there (and I keep doing argh) – i’m going to shower and mull your words and see if I can communicate with inner diva πŸ™‚

  42.  #42Sophie on April 29, 2015 at 9:35 pm

    Indigo – yep … he knows I leave on Monday… good way to throw back the ball … thanks πŸ™‚

  43.  #43Victoria on April 29, 2015 at 11:22 pm

    @ Tereana 40
    Learning to ignore the bad and praise the good is a great relationship skill that works with every one – men, colleagues, children, any one you meet.
    Thank you so much for reminding me of it.
    Observing my behavior, I noticed that I instinctively do it when I feel I am in the weeker power position (e.g. with my boss I would not dare to address every little trigger he gives me, and I instinctively know to give him positive feedback when I am happy). But when I feel I am in an equalized position (or am more “powerful” for lack of better word) I get so demanding, I INSIST on the other person treating me right, apoligize for hurting me feelings, making amends, whatever. And that really is not necessary, the simple way to do it to let minor triggers slide, focus your energy back on yourself, but make sure you sige a lot of positive feedback when it is deserved.

  44.  #44Millie on April 30, 2015 at 12:26 am

    I understand the idea of praising the good and ignoring the bad… And I see how thst means choose your battles. I don’t think I could completely ignore the bad though…

  45.  #45Victoria on April 30, 2015 at 1:02 am

    I know what you mean. I just think it is so very important to not ignore the good, and when we focus on this, our energy is spent on this, there is no more energy available for holding grudges.
    I am saying this more for myself than for you of course… We are only human.

    How have you been? How is your business trip going?

  46.  #46Millie on April 30, 2015 at 1:19 am

    Hi Victoria,

    Thank you for asking! My trip is going so well!! I am having so much fun and I really love meeting all the people that make our work happen, down to the sewers. Everyone is so hospitable and welcoming, it had really made me feel good!!
    Traveling came at a good time for me. However, I do still think about my guy a lot and I miss him. I’m reading a new book about getting to know myself and loving ME, so I do feel like I’m taking this rejection as an opportunity to better myself and find a better mindset other than– why did this happen to me? I don’t understand why he would give up so easily….. I really loved what we had up to a point, and I hope to find that again and keep it going. It’s hard… I’ve never felt a man come towards me and respond to me in such a pleasurable way. It’s hard to beleive it’s gone.

  47.  #47Victoria on April 30, 2015 at 1:25 am

    I am very happy for you that you enjoy your work, this is so important.
    May I suggest something to you to take your mind off your man, which has done miracles for me. Choose someone at work – man or woman (better a man) and pretend you have a crush on him and start acting like you want to impress him (showing your best side). There are several things you can do, and when you are not emotionally involved, it is actually interesting and rewarding, without the anguish of potentially unrequitted love. This concept is also commonly known around here as CD-ing, lol.
    It does wonders!

  48.  #48Millie on April 30, 2015 at 1:31 am

    Victoria! Haha that is a great idea! Watch I actually end up liking that person. .

  49.  #49Victoria on April 30, 2015 at 1:45 am

    There is a very high risk that this person will like you πŸ™‚ Now can you handle this?

  50.  #50Tereana on April 30, 2015 at 3:26 am

    Oops – typos in #40:

    Thinking I’ve screwed things up

    Tell myself…

    : )

  51.  #51Labbit on April 30, 2015 at 4:17 am

    31 Lavender — What you’ve written here is not a feeling message. If you pretended like someone was saying this to you, could you see how attackey it feels? Feeling messages don’t talk about him at all, and they don’t try to control.

    I would encourage you to wait before you say anything, and dig deeper into yourself to figure out what you’re really FEELING. Confused isn’t a feeling…it’s a mental process…masculine energy.

    Are you really…
    – upset he’s spending time with other women?
    – feeling bad he’s not spending enough time with you?
    – angry he’s spending time with friends and perhaps you are not?

    If it’s the last possibility, you don’t even need to say anything to him…you need to take care of yourself. πŸ™‚ Get out there and see your friends! If it’s one of the first two then give yourself some time to really zero in on how those situations FEEL to YOU.

    Then you could say something like…
    “I feel so lonely right now. I don’t like how far apart we feel right now. What do you think we can do about this?”

    You want to start the dialogue, make your desires known so HE can fix the problem. Then you observe — you can’t make him want to fix it. He might be able to fix it right away — he may say I’m so sorry you feel this way, why do you feel this way, let’s fix it. He might listen and not be able to solve the issue in that moment — he might need time to think about it and then will come back to you later with a solution. He might listen and not want to do anything about it — and then you have vital information about the state of your relationship.

  52.  #52Labbit on April 30, 2015 at 4:30 am

    Sirens, I could use some help this morning, not for me but for my sister. I’ve mentioned her a few times recently…she broke up with a man who was emotionally abusive about 4 months ago now, and has really turned her dating life around in an instant! I’ve been so impressed with her, she’s learned so quickly how to be in her feminine energy and tons of men are giving her attention. High-quality, datable men.

    Right now she’s seeing three men regularly, over a month with each, and goes on lots of other dates in between seeing these men. Each of these three men has been excellent about planning dates ahead of time, confirming the night before, and texting or calling her at least once between dates.

    Yesterday, one of the men called to cancel a date they’d planned with my sis today. He was on a business trip for about two weeks (she and I were commiserating together since Tender was also traveling at this time!), and while he was gone he texted her a few photos and they had longer conversations once each week. When he called to cancel he asked to reschedule right away and they picked an evening next week based on her preference, and he told her what they’d be doing and asked if that sounded good to her. He just started a new job (the trip was to go to their home headquarters for training) and needed to be present for an after-hours task at work that just came up.

    My sis is trying not to let this get to her but she’s feeling those old panicky feelings I know all too well coming up. This man also called her later yesterday evening to talk, and said he felt bad about having to cancel, and they had a lovely chat according to my sis, though she felt he was a little distracted at times on the call.

    But even after the call she’s left with her gremlins. While on the call he told her he’s very busy for the next couple of months, and then things will ease up which he’s very much looking forward to.

    I’ve been trying to reassure her that everything is fine, that she just needs to lean back and take care of herself…don’t worry about this man, keep going on her other dates, think about the good times they’ve had when he does come into her thoughts and then politely push him out of them. This man told her he felt she was special on their second date, and has done everything right so far.

    We’re both feeling triggered by him saying he’s busy. UGH, why do men use this word!? In my own past when men say they’re busy it’s often been the beginning of a downward spiral, probably as much my own making in latter cases as anything a man may have done.

    So I’m struggling with what to say to my sis to help her stay strong on the inside, confident yet soft on the outside. Any suggestions? How would you read this situation in her shoes?

  53.  #53Labbit on April 30, 2015 at 4:34 am

    Just to summarize her gremlins, she’s worried that he’s cancelled to go on a date with another woman. Which is possible given that they’re not exclusive, but highly unlikely to me. And even if he did it’s not like she could control it anyway, so she should just stay positive and lean on feelings of being a better catch than any other woman…she’s worried he’s losing interest, but I don’t think a man who’s losing interest would make sure to call so far ahead of time and immediately reschedule the date.

    And her other fear is that she was too available to him yesterday by being home when he called in the evening to chat. Normally she would have been out on another date, but she’d been so tired from work she decided to have a quiet evening at home. I’m having a bit more trouble reassuring her on this one, since this plays into one of my triggers as well. I told her it was probably fine to be home and that it was so cool of him to reach out and make sure to have contact with her since he had to cancel the date. Any thoughts on these?

  54.  #54Victoria on April 30, 2015 at 4:35 am

    @ Labbit 51 and Lavender 31.
    I also think the script sounds extremely accusatory.
    I so wish I could learn to communicate better, and avoid saying things like that myself.

    I have a hard time with a female colleague of work who triggers me big time… She bites like a snake. I know she does it out of her own insecurities and she is going through menopause… So I breathe, breathe, ignore the bad and look for the good, and try not to strangle her in between.

  55.  #55Victoria on April 30, 2015 at 4:51 am

    Let me share with you a great discovery of mine.
    Just like we talk here, there are sights that cater to men. If you google “how mo spark” a woman’s interest, you will find very curious articles. The advice men are given, in order to “hook” a woman, is to be unavailable and unreliable. Mind you, this really works!
    It really, truly works. Now, your sister, who has at least two other men courting her, is insecure around this one! Unbelievable.
    You already know what to tell her πŸ™‚

  56.  #56Labbit on April 30, 2015 at 5:22 am

    Victoria — LOL! I don’t get the sense from my sis that she’s placed this man first in her order of the three…I think she’s equally intrigued by all three of them, it’s only been a month or two. But yes it is pretty hilarious how the insecurity pops up over something seemingly simple like having to reschedule a date. πŸ™‚

  57.  #57Azure Blu on April 30, 2015 at 5:26 am

    Victoria #55
    Wow… how interesting to hear that men are told to be unavailable AND unreliable!!! UGHHH….

    Yes, I agree with Victoria…
    Your sister *IS* dating others also…
    she should practice catching herself when she starts
    OVER thinking about this man
    As RORI teaches… DONT get caught up with any one man this early!!!

    For me, early in the Rori tools learning process…
    IT was/is ALL about learning to LOVE ME…
    Your sister is finding HER demons, confused voices…
    As we all are continually learning.
    These Men are her FREE therapy…
    Learning to Love Me, Learning to LOVE
    ALLL MY feelings… LEarning to find out what MY feelings are…
    Learning to be friends with MY demons…

    Rori’s CD’s are sooo good…
    Toxic men has all about “finding Your Stranger”
    this changed MY life!!!

    EMK is good for the dating part…

    BUT RORI is the BEST for growing our self esteem
    Learning to Fill OURSELVES up…
    Learning to GET a LIFE that WE LOVE
    Regardless of which man comes or goes…
    How lovely that you and your sister are so close!!
    There’s NOTHING like sister Love…

  58.  #58Indigo on April 30, 2015 at 5:38 am


    I wish I had more wisdom on this one, because I too feel very baffled and triggered when a man says he is busy. In these moments I really wish men were better communicators and could say what was really going on, because it is usually a cover for some or other feeling they are experiencing. Then again, they usually don’t want to hurt us, and want the privacy to work stuff out on their own. It’s a tough one.

    However, since it’s early on for your sister, only a month, I would say it’s an easy one. She is not super invested yet, AND has other options, and can simply observe this man’s behaviour from now on. 10 to 1 all will be revealed VERY soon. She will soon see whether he is truly unavailable or if this is just a temporary glitch in the road.

  59.  #59Azure Blu on April 30, 2015 at 5:47 am

    Indigo, Labbitt & Victoria,
    I agree with Indigo also…

    No matter how many men I would be dating…
    If one did reschedule, it totally threw me!!!
    Funny how that works…

    And as for me, while I’m CDing, I’ll reschedule easily if I just need a break… or I’m not feeling very interested with the guy, or I get a better offer…
    It’s amazing how nice all the guys are about My rescheduling… I can really see how it does cause anxiety for them also.
    Ahhhh… the complexity of it all!!!

  60.  #60Kim on April 30, 2015 at 5:59 am

    Hello Sirens!
    I need to vent lol.
    So far so good, we moved in together and it is lovely to come home and wake up to my sweet man…but….it has become evident (and I fel baffled because we spent a lot of time together previously), that we have different lifestyles.
    Before he moved in, I used to be in bed before/around 11pm because I wake up early, and like to exercise before starting my day/work.
    This never used to be a problem before, we used to go to bed together.
    I have also been overfunctioning, majorly, well he is working again now so I have been doing all the cooking, cleaning, washing and unpacking a LOT of his boxes. He comes home at 6-ish and plays on the computer for a bit, we eat the meal I supplied, he chills and plays more computer games….and starts to unpack his boxes around 10pm..gets into full swing by midnight. I have been watching this for 3 days now, apart from the fact we live in a highrise, and aren’t supposed to make clanging and furniture making noise so late, I am EXHAUSTED. i get about 5 hours sleep.
    So I mentioned a few times, perhaps we could unpack stuff a little earlier, like right after dinner and then relax as it gets later. He says oh yes, definitely. Nothing changes!
    I have dinner ready at 7 and he just plays a computer game for three hours afterwards…
    Sooo this does not feel good.
    So then I go to bed at modnight totally exhausted….and he kisses me on the forehead and says he is just ‘going to check his emails’….and gets back on the couch playing games until he falls asleep, maybe one or two at night afterr which he will crawl into bed…..before we were duscussing our life, he said he might stay up later the odd night…I was like: sure!
    Now it is every night…and I did not sign up to this.
    He said he would exercise with me, as he wants to lose weight and get fit, but of course he can’t get out of bed in the morning….he also has been late to work every single day this week for the same reason, playing on his computer…before he moved in, he announced he would get up earlier and get to work earlier so he comes home before 7….
    It feels like none of this is ever going to happen.
    Thing is, he knew my lifestyle before….and we always went to bed together…
    We had so many plans after he moved in, bearing in mind I waited 3 months of minimum dates and minimum doimg stuff together…now he informs me he just wants to do nothing on the weekend, ok, fine…I do understand that part..the rest:
    I don’t underestand.
    I have decided to go out with my girlfriends tonight and make plans for the weekend…I am not gling to cook anymore until further notice, and I am not unpacking anymore, after all I have things to do also.
    No more overfunctioning.
    And on a side note: I am so glad I am seeing all this now, because if this goes on, I know for sure that I can’t live like this….hopefully things will change when he is more settled in, but I don’t think so, I am thinking once his TV and all his cable stations are hooked up, he will just fall asleep in front of the TV rather than with me.
    In which case, I was better off living alone…I get my 7-8 hours sleep and didn’t have to compromise….
    Maybe I am an eternally single
    Anyway, August is my deadline/timeline…

  61.  #61Kim on April 30, 2015 at 6:02 am

    PS: He is absolutely loving living with me. Very happy. I am also happy to have him here, but if our lifestyles turn out to be so different, this won’t work

  62.  #62Starla on April 30, 2015 at 6:40 am

    kim, i am newly living with my man and find myself feeling like I’m over functioning, too. It’s so trickybecause you have to keep life moving, keep eating, keep cleaning, keep shopping… And this boy energy ends up being for more than just yourself. I am also at the point where I’d like to stop all of it…. i am going to experiment with totally leaning back, except for making the coffee because i think that chore means the most to him for whatever reason. And he doesn’t realize it but all of this functioning i have to do as a household partner is depolarizing him to me as a woman. Feels so good to drop the reigns. This morning i just lounged in bed while he took care of things, no explanation or words from me about it… I just lazed like a siren on the sand… Yum i feel delicious.

  63.  #63Starla on April 30, 2015 at 6:59 am

    more thinking on the matter: it’s not that i should go on strike, but let him initiate the chore… For example, i have plenty of snacks and quick food to eat until he says hey what do you want to do for dinner. then i can follow his lead. And i don’t feel depleted when i do the chores…its more the talking about it and negotiating and initiating on my part that makes me feel like matronly and unsexy… But it is great news that we make such good roommates:-) except i dont want to be a roommate, i want to be a princess… Haha don’t laugh…im processing:-)

  64.  #64Kim on April 30, 2015 at 7:12 am

    62 and 63 yes, exactly….this is just how I feel and I know it was partly my own making of trying to help him and in the end instead of doing something productive, he soent the time he gained by me doimg everything for him, on relaxing and playing. Which he is entitled to, but not when my condo sinks into chaos from all his stuff.
    I am not going to lift a finger. Plus, I am now totally exhausted from not sleeping. So, I don’t even have the energy to do a thing. Too much boy energy.
    And adding to that, I had to put in even more with an issue with my a/c….yes, he got the guy to come but the guy was a terrible technician and very rude…and because my guy is so silent and hesitant, he just stood there nodding to the nonsense.
    I had to speak up, rush things along and so on. Felt awful but I am not being taken for a ride (and money) by some gobby idiot while my man is nodding his head…sorry, no can do.
    I am beginning to think I am just too late to find a good and ambitious alpha male at 40…they are married or divorced with children. After 7 years of dating I am left with a man who prefers to play a Simpson game over having s*x with me, is perenially late, has no ambition and no backbone to support me with in these situations when I am dealing with contractors.
    Maybe I will have to be the masculine. Or maybe just f*ck it and stay alone….at least I got 8 hours sleep…lol.
    Whatever, just venting..

  65.  #65Kim on April 30, 2015 at 7:15 am

    Ok, so yes, it’s official, my guy’s life has just improved by 100% and he even says this, and mine has become much less fun and much less relaxed than when I was alone.
    It’s only been a week, but….this is not going to change….once his TV is wired up he will sleep in front of the TV instead of with me.
    That’s not how I see my future…nope. Sweet and considerate and lovely as he is….no.

  66.  #66Starla on April 30, 2015 at 7:26 am

    Hugs, kim. I know you’re just venting and planning for the worst based on what you know about his personality, but i truly believe that if you totally lean back, and tell him how good it feels whenever he does something you like, this can be so much better than you’re expecting.

  67.  #67Starla on April 30, 2015 at 7:26 am

    And if it doesn’t get better, well, cross that bridge then haha. Hugs!!!!

  68.  #68Kim on April 30, 2015 at 7:47 am

    Maybe I have PMS on steroids? Lol

  69.  #69Victoria on April 30, 2015 at 7:50 am

    I don’t want to go into stories about my own life, but I will tell you my experience – living with a man is GREATLY OVERRATED.

  70.  #70Lovergirl on April 30, 2015 at 8:01 am


    I was married to a lazy man for 13 years. It didn’t get better. It put me in the masculine role by default and I absolutely hated it.

    He didn’t play video games, instead he spent all his time “praying” because he was supposedly called to ministry. This meant he was lying around in the yard or house for hours and hours at a time “reading the bible and praying”. That was a little harder to call him out on or argue about, but really it was a mask for his laziness.

    Meanwhile I did EVERYTHING. Even after our first child was born, he was out of work for 7 months because he was “praying” and wouldn’t look for a job! He seemed to think God was going to drop one out of the sky. He was out of work but still did absolutely nothing to help me around the house.

    Anyway, I could go on all day about that, but believe me, if you are stuck in this situation too long you could get VERY resentful. I think you are smart to set a date by which there needs to be an improvement. Maybe try some sireny tactics until then to get a fire up under him. He COULD just be needing to decompress from the move (it did take like 3 months!)

    Some things, like being a morning person vs a night one, just are part of our personality. I remember S talking about how his ex would want to get up early in the morning and exercise an he hated it, lol. He’s not lazy and works hard at his job plus a side business, but he does like to watch a movie or relax. Me, I’m kind of in between too. I am more productive at night and not a morning person, and I have lazy moments but I mostly get things done.

  71.  #71Labbit on April 30, 2015 at 8:10 am

    57 Azure Blu — It IS funny, agreed! I don’t get the sense that my sis is hung up on this guy, it’s more how he’s behaving that’s bringing her fears to the surface, make sense? She’s scared not so much about this guy but that these old fears are coming up loudly, or that she’s done something wrong. That’s more what I’m trying to help her with…she is feeling very confident in herself and her femininity these days overall, and she knows that even if this guy poofs on her there are other men that would quickly take his place. I know she already had a date this week on Monday (which was not great, and put her a bit off-balance she says), has set up one tonight to fill in for the guy that canceled, and is seeing one of the other top 3 guys on Friday!

    But I will certainly remind her not to get invested in any guy too soon…you are so right about facing all your demons. I feel like I’m facing mine again all over with her, and I thought I’d already faced these!!

    58 Indigo — It’s so hard to tell this early on, based on his actions (calling her as soon as he knew he had to cancel instead of waiting for the last minute, rescheduling immediately, calling her later to give her some quality time) I think he is legit bummed that he had to cancel, and it is most likely for work. But yeah that busy word, it gets me EVERYTIME. Even if there is something else going on it’s not for her to worry about now…you’re right that if there’s something she needs to know it will become apparent quickly.

  72.  #72Indigo on April 30, 2015 at 8:10 am


    I’ve been through this issue with D many times – for whatever reason, the playing computer games, even until late at night, doesn’t bother me, never has. But it was more when he would suggest we watch a movie together, and he’d want to get started at 8.30 or 9 at night – he only starts work at 9 in the morning and works 5 minutes from where he lives, whereas I start much earlier and have further to drive. I got into the habit of just speaking up and saying I needed to go to bed, and I have spoken before on here about the fact that D and I sleep in separate beds. Now admittedly, I know this would NOT be for everyone, and it took me a LONG time to make peace with this way of doing things, but all I can say is that if you’re willing to find creative solutions, maybe do things a bit differently, many of these things can be solved in the long run.

    But I tend to agree with Victoria, your expectations of living with a man can not be super high. It does not rise to great heights and is not the epitome of romance much of the time. Well, it depends on the man you’re with.

    Anyway, you have many choices here, and I wish you luck as you navigate this.

  73.  #73Lovergirl on April 30, 2015 at 8:10 am

    Dominique 25-

    I really don’t feel like doing much for him at all. I feel like I “should” so as not to seem selfish and entitled, but I don’t really want to do much. I definitely don’t want to buy a gift or pay for him to eat anywhere, it just feels weird.

    I thought maybe I should make him a little cake or something, but even that, I don’t know. I know he would probably appreciate it, he has asked if I ever make cake, his mom was a cook and cakes were like her specialty (she died a decade ago). I don’t know though. I might just say happy birthday and leave it at that. I guess I will see how things are going between us in a couple weeks.

  74.  #74Labbit on April 30, 2015 at 8:14 am

    Kim, I have lived with men twice before and I’ve noticed that there is an adjustment period in the beginning, especially if the man moves into your space.

    I can remember my ex-fiance was very standoffish the first week or two. He was looking for his safe place and wasn’t much for talking, cuddling or doing things together, but after a couple of weeks he felt more settled and warmed right back up.

    You can help this along by being exceptionally warm. With my ex-f, I did cook dinner for the first month or so, and kept up with most of the cleaning, and gently talked to him along the way to say that I expected help and was not going to do it all myself. When he was ready we sat down and hammered it out. Likewise, I’d tell him softly and romantically when I was going to bed and make it clear that he should join me for some fun. With time, the dynamic got back to his normal of him initiating everything. I would give it at least 3 weeks before you get too off-balance from it all. He’s finding his place in your space. πŸ™‚

  75.  #75Lovergirl on April 30, 2015 at 8:14 am

    Dixie 14-

    It’s funny how dating different men shows you the mistakes you are making, loud and clear. I guess that’s one of the big positives about circular dating. You get a needy guy and realize how needy you must seem to the man you love and learn to dial it back a bit.

  76.  #76Lovergirl on April 30, 2015 at 8:21 am

    Starla 33-

    Yeah, I mentioned his bday when I saw him the other day and he kind of shrugged and said he wasn’t doing anything special. I wouldn’t want to impose on him if he had other plans or something, so I may just say happy birthday over text or something and if he seems interested in hanging out THEN maybe ask what he would like.

    I don’t think just saying “happy birthday” would be leaning forward too much, but other things might be.
    Especially now, with things kind of up in the air between us. I haven’t heard from him since his call on Monday, freaking out thinking I could be pregnant. Not really sure if he is upset or overthinking sleeping with me or just rubber banding or what. I’m just not contacting him and waiting to see what happens.

  77.  #77Kim on April 30, 2015 at 8:28 am

    74 Labbit, good points….it’s pretty difficult for me to stay warm I guess, right now, when I am being kept up late….and tripping over boxes…this isn’t feeling good.
    I think me ‘helping’ just comolicated things, because he is also anal (OCD) and was taking all the stuff out of the cupboards again and lining them up so he felt good with it.
    I am sure there is an adjustment period, feels good to read that…but right now, I just wish myself back to how it was before…where I could sleep and move in my apartment.
    I feel I have graduated from gf to mother in one week and it’s not where I want to be.
    I guess, to me it doesn’t feel normal to see a 45 year old man play computer games until late…he never used to do this. If I had known this was going to happen, I would never have agreed to the move.
    It is just totally contradictory to my lifestyle…I feel cheated actually…because I think I am on,y now seeing the real man…feels like he put on his best behavior and he was probably doing this when alone, his bachelor lifestyle….staying up till late and being in work late….not exercising and not looking for houses….like he has been saying for years is what he wants to do.
    I am going to monitor how I feel. If this continues another week or so, I will either be dead of sleep deprivation or have exploded out of anger at the chaos…I can’t wait a month for this to change when I am surviving on 5 hours sleep a night and getting more and more grumpy.
    He suggested I could get a mask like they have in airplanes, and earplugs…I can’t sleep with all this crap in and on my face lol. In my own place? I don’t think so.
    He talked about a couple of nights a week, not every night.
    I want passion and sex and cuddlijg in my relationship, not a teenager playing computer games and falling asleep on the couch every night….
    I agree with adjustment period, but I think this is his MO?
    Interesting to find out after almost 2 years lol

  78.  #78Kim on April 30, 2015 at 8:33 am

    72 Indigo, no, sleeping in separate beds would not work for me. I also believe everybody is entitled to do what they do, but I have to admit that I find it tough to respect a 45 year old man who wastes 5 hours a day playing a kid’s game. I might just be oldfashioned, or have my nose up in the sky, but the guys I dated before were pretty ambitiois and successful or academics….and they had, frankly, better things to do…as have I. And they had more appealing ways to relax. This is TV/Computerr addiction is perhaps a curse of modern day life, but when it means I have no sex anymore because some idiotic show is more interesting than a naked woman in his bed.

  79.  #79Labbit on April 30, 2015 at 8:37 am


    Sending lots of **HUGS** to you. It sounds like you are handling everything coming your way exceptionally well. So what if he decided to re-arrange the cabinets? I’d bet a million bucks that he was touched that you took the time to unpack, I’ll bet that made him very welcome, a clear sign from you that you consider it BOTH your space now. I feel warm inside just thinking about it!!

    Seems perfectly normal to me that you’ll be able to be super warm at times, and at other times you’ll just want to do what you want to do. Same for him I’m sure! I think the computer games are his retreat, and he’s falling back to them often right now as his way of coping with whatever discomfort he feels. You could try expressing this…I feel really weird right now, like I’m not sure what my routine and comfort zones are at the moment…how about you? Something along those lines to start the conversation.

    What are you doing to cope? I can remember taking lots of long baths, making myself tea and sitting on my favorite comfy chair with it, sometimes going out around the corner to a coffee shop for some fresh air. (After a few weeks ex-f started joining me on the coffee runs which was great!)

    I hear you that you need to be comfortable in your space, and if this is not what you want you have every right to express that. I’d just lightly suggest taking a step back and seeing how things shake out, as you say you’re doing.

  80.  #80Kim on April 30, 2015 at 8:38 am

    70 Lovergirl..OMG! I am sorry about your experience…whoa.

    Actually the paradox here is that he was waxing lyrical to everybody as to how I changed his life…he is more in the sunshine, more active, more positive….everything has improved for him…..he kept telling me how he is dying to exercise with me, how he can’t wait to live here….so we can go for beach walks….how he is going to go to work early so we have evenings to do stuff…
    Right now, he can not unpack one box a day before 10pm….when I said ‘would you like to come exercise with me?’ He said ‘no, maybe I’ll go to the gym later’
    It’s almost like everything he said is no more…
    He aspires to my lifestyle, but for some reason it’s all just like new years resolutions…it’s not gonna happen.

  81.  #81Kim on April 30, 2015 at 8:40 am

    Labbit, oh I love that post, made me feel great!!
    I am definitely doing stuff for me now!

    With regards to the computer games…I think it was what he did in the evenijgs before moving in here even more..his sister said to me, when she stayed with him, that he is addicted to them. I should have listened…

  82.  #82Kim on April 30, 2015 at 8:43 am

    I am trying to stay calm but the thing that bothers me most is the sleep deprivation if I am being honest. I find it hard to function right now, actually. One day on 5 hours was ok, but it’s been three or four…starting to get headaches, cranky, drinking too much coffee, neglecting stuff I should be doing…I think if anything, this is what will break me.

  83.  #83Sophie on April 30, 2015 at 8:44 am

    Thank you for the advice earlier re. how to deal with flippant emails/arrangements. I messaged in the end saying it’d feel better if he suggested plans cos he’s the one with a life here and i’ve only got some things I feel determined to do. I don’t know why I don’t choose trust with him every time ‘cos every time he is fine, makes suggestions, if they don’t work for whatever reason he makes more…I am just practicing but I feel pre-school. I do not know mature behaviour, or expect a man with maturity…guess that’s the point of practice and keep learning to trust myself.I am trying to reinforce the idea with every man that of course they would want to be in my company. I am also trying to love on the NVs – the one’s earlier were all shame-based but I loved on my feelings of fear and inferiority and inadequacy and neediness and all the overanalysing and worrying about transparency. I have some freedom in this situation as I’m going … everything is temporary….and i’m practicing every day, with every one, and everything, let go, let go, let go.

    Overfunctioning feels hard not to do – i’m so used to fixing or being a fixer. I feel fear it comes out in the things I say and seems patronising or demasculating – STILL more practice for me. AND I definitely feel softer than I ever did use to but I don’t want to lose myself with over-analaysing, trying to become a perfect siren…I want (and deserve) to be liked and loved as I am – I often fail on the listening one cos i’m very sparky and over excitable ha

    Just musing…I feel curious following your stories particularly the ‘move in’ scenarios and happy that you’ve got to get away Millie -Victoria, Millie, Indigo, Rori (!) work that you love and tht offers meaning and passion to life feels so important to me – that is what “I want to be filled up on (along with the love that is already there from oh so many places, almost everywhere)

  84.  #84Beloved on April 30, 2015 at 9:02 am

    I feel sick with dread, and at the same time, I’m feeling so much love and forgiveness for myself for staying with my ex for so long.
    Now that I feel I have nobody to run to, to help me navigate difficult situations, I understand better why I stayed with him for so long, even though it felt so horrible and lonely. I could always go to him, even though I didn’t always get the response I wanted or felt I needed, I could always count on him to at least pick up the phone or be at home and make time for me.
    I feel so unsafe right now.
    I feel like running to him again, can we try this one more time?
    Omg I feel so much regret, I wish I had known about and given myself a timeline when I was considering moving there, and at the same time, I wouldn’t have wanted to miss out on my grandson’s birth and this whole first year of his life.
    I feel so, so scared right now.

  85.  #85Sophie on April 30, 2015 at 9:03 am

    sorry kim I was writing that as the whole convo was going on and hence missed it. I am feeling curious about the wisdom offered by others and fascinated by whether this will change. I am also feeling quiet as it is reminding me of certain things when B moved in with me. I agree I’m not sure I would feel happy with the computer game thing (or ever have). I would feel happier with someone who spent his time doing something more ambitious, excitable, expansive, progressive and definitely paying me the sexy attention I deserve…B and I ended up in separate beds ‘cos he’d stay up all night watching TV – I hated it – like Indigo I wouldn’t mind it sometimes, if it guaranteed good sleep but all the time…no it felt horrible. I’m hoping this will turn around like the others suggest xxx

  86.  #86victoria on April 30, 2015 at 9:03 am

    I need to remind you that there must be a reason why a wonderful man is single at 45. Lol. A computer game addiction is not too bad, at least yoy know exactly where he’s at.
    Are you sure he aspires to your lifestyle or he is just giving you compliments? In my case F. Keeps saying he admires my healthy lifestyle but I am pretty sure he will never change his habits. I am pretty sure it is his passive aggressive way of asserting his power. This is who I am, love me or leave me. Oh well.

  87.  #87Femininewoman on April 30, 2015 at 9:05 am

    Lovergirl – my opinion is S was just having sex. He was sex deprived at the point and you helped him out. I really don’t think he is rubberbanding. What he really needs is for you to drop totally off his radar to be really clear on what he is about.

  88.  #88Femininewoman on April 30, 2015 at 9:12 am

    Kim – he is 45 yet we all have the kid inside us. I read recently where it is the kid in us that our emotions are connected to. The way I see it the games give him some kind of emotional high that nothing else does. Maybe the feeling of being challenged and then feeling accomplished. The feeling of winning that so many men need. It is that feeling that keeps them going to ball games or in competitive sport. If you could flip your perspective around and see how the game fulfill some deep need inside him, he might be able to see it too and then maybe find the fulfillment some other way.

    On the other side it could be his way of relaxing. Decompressing. Where he goes into the empty box in his mind. I understand that men need this. It is like where are doing 24/7 but they need that time where they are thinking just plain nothing.

  89.  #89Lovergirl on April 30, 2015 at 9:12 am

    Femininewoman 87-

    I don’t really feel that way. We hadn’t had sex in 2 1/2 months and he was still wanting to spend time with me during that time. I’m sure he wanted sex, yes, but there are other people he could have had it with.

    He even mentioned getting invited to see this married woman he sometimes sleeps with, at this sex club she hangs out at, that day. He turned her down. Heck, if he had gone there he’d probably have had sex with a couple of different women. I don’t at all get the feeling that he’s “only” about sex with me.

    I did drop off his radar for a little bit, and he came back with what we had the other day. So I feel like it DID help, and maybe that’s what I need to do more of.

  90.  #90Kim on April 30, 2015 at 9:14 am

    86 that’s exactly what I was saying, there is a reason why he was mever married…lol..
    And yes, I also feel a lot of passive aggressiveness…because we always used to go to bed together, now I feel like I have a rebelling teenager at home.
    Bottom line, if this doesn’t change quick, it isn’t working for me. I need to sleep and function like a normal human being and that’s non-negotiable.
    I also do not want to get married to someone who is wasting most of his free time on playing computer games and was just trying to impress me before….honestly, I would much rather be alone. I have a great life, vety active, cultural, fun. I do not need a man to drag me down and out of this.
    I also don’t need a pet for home when I am out and about enjoying myself, to be there wagging tail when I come home.
    I was looking for a partner.
    So, we shall see.
    I am not trying to change him, I would just drop it and leave back to Europe, he can stay in the condo if he wants. No biggie.

  91.  #91Kim on April 30, 2015 at 9:17 am

    86, I understand that FW, and I understand we all have different ways of relaxing…but I can’t respect a man who plays 5 hours a day and neglects his grown up duties, including being late for his job. He is not my son.

  92.  #92Kim on April 30, 2015 at 9:19 am

    Victoria, well he really wants to lose weight and he keeps goimg on and on about how we can exercise together…so far the only exercise I see is the moving of computer mice.
    I don’t even care, I think he looks good even overweight, but then he has to stop whinging about being overweigt 24/7 and do something about it…lol

  93.  #93Kim on April 30, 2015 at 10:57 am

    85 Sophie, thank you!
    You know, I feel actually relieved that this is coming out now, and yes, I would not be able to be with someone who uses technology until the early hours every night for whatever reason….I like intimacy, conversation, cuddling – even watching a movie is better…and don’t see the point living with someone who is more interested in tV and computer than interaction with humans…never appealed to me. Never will.
    I actually see it as a modern day sickness, and I myself have taken plenty of steps to actually shut off everything now and then for quiet and reflective time…or time with others, or enjoying nature.
    Each to their own.

  94.  #94Mandy on April 30, 2015 at 6:07 pm

    Oops…forgot to say…Thank you Sirana and Tereana πŸ™‚

    It has been a good week, when I feel life is full of possibilities…it feels very fruitful and awesome πŸ™‚

  95.  #95Dixie on April 30, 2015 at 6:20 pm

    Mandy, Lovergirl, thank you for your feedback!

    Yes, SteadyCD is crashing his ship onto my rocks for sure, and here I am, feeling warm and friendly towards him, but nothing more yet. To be honest, there are a few things that made me feel confined when with him, hence this pushpull inside me.

    D… Well, yes, Lovergirl. He is my mirror :). He helps me see where I need to just breathe and unclench my fists.

    Today is his birthday. I’m feeling exhausted and tired after a major project at work. After years of dreaming, I put on our schools first Writers Festival. I feel so proud of me, and D was so supportive and excited. But he’s pulled back this week and last, and I sent a very puppyish message yesterday. Not sireny, I know! I was feeling soft and vulnerable and missed him in the deepest way.

    So, it feels so needy to now reach out again for his birthday. I love it when he steps up instead. I was feeling so exhausted from work this week -late meeting, now heading to Boston tomorrow to volunteer with a school trip- that I came home weepy. I’ll feel better tomorrow I know, because Boston was on my wish list this year (fun how the universe does that) but I don’t feel like reaching out tonight. Tonight, it’s ME that needs my love and attention.

    Besides, despite my wobbliness now, Im just focusing on warm, happy thoughts about general things, like cuddling my little niece.

  96.  #96Dixie on April 30, 2015 at 6:42 pm

    Oh sirens, I am feeling the most tender and vulnerable and weepy tonight. Even commercials are making me sob tonight! Yesterday I was leaning forward, tonight I feel like curling up into myself.

    My heart really is feeling so vulnerable tonight. Sigh.

  97.  #97Beloved on April 30, 2015 at 7:16 pm

    I got hate mail from my roomie today!
    Because I left a sincerely meant-to-be-kind note in the bathroom, that I rewrote about 3 times to check and double-check for any hint of PA or snark, about not leaving exposed and unwrapped used pads and tampons in the trash.

    J took it upon herself to leave me a note “Not meant to upset!” me, about how mortifying it was and she felt she needed to stand up to my bullying and that she felt I should have addressed them each individually (which, had I done, she probably would have found something wrong and bullying about THAT, too).

    So, I did what comes natural to me, I thanked her for sharing, for her opinion, and meant it because I said, if you know a better way to handle these kinds of things, please tell me! Which, she did, so…yeah, okay, I’m listening.

    I asked her, what came across as bullying, and after talking to her for a few minutes, she seemed to get, since I was totally NOT defensive or charged, that I was just mucking around being human trying to address a sanitation situation that I didn’t want happening in a shared bathroom.

    What I got, really, from her self-righteous need to protect someone who didn’t really need it from my non-bullying, is that the whole message was to make sure I that I knew it wasn’t her, and to yet again throw RoomieN under the bus. After her rant about how I talk about other people blah blah, she was yet again trying to suck me into a conversation about N who was not around…I backed out quickly. No thanks, I’m on to this trick.

    Ugh. Well, at least, superficially, we aren’t at each others’ throats. I know better than to talk to her about anything but the weather. In the meantime…I’m feeling more and more serious about ditching my dream of school and have been putting in resume’s all over the place. I figure I can do some online accounting courses while I’m working and making money. Ideally I will get insurance and get whatever is going on with my chest taken care of.

    Earlier, too, I managed to shift my focus from panicking about my bank balance, to appreciating every dollar that is in it, and focusing on everything I do have. Appreciating that I have both arms and legs, all my fingers and toes, I have my vision, hearing, a reliable car, I live in a beautiful home, surrounded by tons of trees and beauty…on and on and on…shifting my focus to what I DO have.

    I still feel like I’ve been rode hard and put up wet …and I guess it’s just like that sometimes πŸ˜€

  98.  #98Tereana on April 30, 2015 at 9:28 pm

    Beloved – yes!! Gratitude!

    Ladies, it is my birthday. And gratitude is just what I want to feel, going into it. I have so many good things in my life, and assuming nothing unusual happens, I have years ahead of me to do lots of more interesting things. I have life and limb and a roof over my head and I am supporting myself independently. Wow! That’s actually pretty great, compared to some other options.

    And I just had a major – Major – aha moment: proxy emotions. That’s where I get someone else to manage my emotions for me because they are too big for me to handle. I’m doing it less now, but I realized the only reason I’ve ever done it at all is that it was literally how I was raised to deal with emotions – don’t worry. Mummy or daddy has it covered. Yeah, that doesn’t work so much in real life.

    But at least, knowing this, I can start to have more control over what it is I am actually doing.

    Not a bad start to my personal new year.

    Happy May Day, everyone!!

  99.  #99Azure Blu on May 1, 2015 at 6:17 am

    Labbit #74/KIM
    Ahhh… the soft warm song of your wise Siren voice…
    I totally Agree…

    Life has a rhythm… A lovely swaying,
    methodical pace…
    Men, animals and children have been MY teachers…
    To Slow down… Appreciate ALLL they do bring to us…
    I can get in a bossy… we NEED to do this NOW
    and It has NOT served me well in the past

    I am living with my 31yr son and
    He has become soooo much more caring
    interacting more and more with me
    Voluntarily Helping out more… being much more responsive when I do ask for help
    since I stopped picking
    and started appreciating all he does!!
    It works Like Magic!!

    I’m sure you already do this
    Respecting that they ARE NOT our clones…
    That is what makes HIM masculine
    Many of his differences are what drew you to him
    I imagine…

  100.  #100Azure Blu on May 1, 2015 at 6:39 am

    Beloved #97
    Wow… Appreciation!
    Thank you for reminding me on this beautiful, sunshiny (here) Friday!!

    You handled that interaction with J so well
    Ohhh lovely, strong, soft and wonderful Siren!!!

    Give yourself a BIG pat on the back!!
    You are A Rock Star here on Siren Island!

  101.  #101Azure Blu on May 1, 2015 at 6:50 am

    Spirit is Rowing the Boat…
    and said last night..
    “I had to see you tonight (third night in a row)
    I couldn’t go without seeing you!!!”

    AND – “we could get a cute little cabin in the woods together”

    Ahhhh… and he made plans last night while we were out… to see each other tonight!!

    I am Sooo happy!! But NOT out of my body…
    I noticed… I am relaxed and NOT over gushing,
    just easily accepting his pace
    and letting *HIM* lead!

    I can feel the difference from other relationships…
    I was ALWAYS soo anxious and nervous and childish and needy!!!
    NOW I have a life *I* love…
    I am NOT expecting HIM to fill ME up!!

    I AM enough!!!

    This MUST feel VERY different to him

    ME concentrating on the lessons *I* need to learn
    NOT in changing HIM
    Ahhhh… the MAGIC of Rori’s tools!!
    and ALLLL the amazing support here on Siren Island
    I certainly am a different woman
    and I LOVE this NEW ME!!!

    With Spirit, I have been practicing,
    Appreciation – noticing ALLL the wonderful things he DOES do…
    NO nit picking
    And then…
    Asking softly for what I want

    He seems to feel safe with ME
    His vulnerable, soft, lovely heart
    is open and exposed…
    I want to be very careful
    with this gift!!

  102.  #102Azure Blu on May 1, 2015 at 6:52 am

    {{{{Happiest of Birthdays Tereana!!!}}}

  103.  #103Beloved on May 1, 2015 at 7:17 am

    Happy happy birthday, Tereana!

  104.  #104Mistea1 on May 1, 2015 at 7:35 am

    Azure blu 99 and 101,

    I’ve been thinking about this and you have said it better than I ever could.
    It’s said that it takes a village to raise a child. I believe it takes the women to raise a caring committed mature man. Rori’s tools will help if we are willing to do them.

    Back in medieval times romantic love was developed to tie a man to a woman to care for her and the family, to decrease violence overall and to women. Women would bestow a scarf or handkerchief to her favored man and watch him as he jousted for superior power. It was discovered that the men who had received a favor from a woman, especially a high status woman, did much better in these mock combats. They won more often and more decisively. They became leaders and cared for their families and estates better than those who did not.

    Fast forwarding to the present, I believe all these hookups, texting and not face to face content, doesn’t allow for young men to prove themselves and find out their strengths. Nowadays even men into their 70’s have issues with this. I think Victoria has commented on this issue.

    Now the men/boys can almost always find a hookup so who needs to work on growing up.

  105.  #105Mistea1 on May 1, 2015 at 8:02 am

    cont.Azure 99, 101,

    That’s where we need Rori’s modern day tools to help these men develop into grownup mature men who want to care for their women and families.

    My youngest daughter is a very wise woman. She told me it is better to be alone than to have friends who don’t respect us, treat us with dignity, have care for and love us.

    Course we didn’t know about CDing at the time but this technique is a godsend to us all. I like that Rori has said to continue to CD until there is commitment and definite future plans. To me that means the Tiffany ring or equivalent and a set wedding date in the near future especially if you are of childbearing years even if you don’t want children.

    I think the housing arrangement is best if the couple has picked out a new together house like (who was it?) who bought a condo together and together remodeled it to suit them. We get so tied up in convenience and costs and don’t consider that the man has to take the lead. Anything else leads to emasculation in my opinion.

    Great job Azure you are a good teacher!!

    Tereana, Happiest of birthdays to you!!

  106.  #106Mistea1 on May 1, 2015 at 8:15 am

    Oh Azure Blu, what a gift you are giving your son and his future wife and children and their children, etc, etc.

    Truly you are a Siren who is benefiting the seventh generation. I bow to you.

    And I wish I was 28 again to possibly meet him!! πŸ™‚

  107.  #107Azure Blu on May 1, 2015 at 8:33 am

    Mistea1 —
    Ohhh… my… I am blushing at your praise…
    My heart is filled with thank yous!!!

    Rori’s tools have helped me heal my relationship with both my children… my son in particular…
    I am sooo grateful that I have an open heart to make these changes
    And, YES, I have made this choice BECAUSE
    I DO want to BREAK THE CHAIN Of fear of emotional intimacy
    which has been passed down for many generations…
    Because *I* have changed
    MY entire family, siblings, parents, nieces, grandchildren & children
    have been set free to become the kind, caring compassionate people they really are!!!
    It has taken many years… BUT
    the rhythm of the universe is right and true….

  108.  #108Mistea1 on May 1, 2015 at 9:13 am

    Azure Blu 107,

    Yes, I remember way back when I was in my 20s and pregnant for the first time. I realized that now was the time to change things in my life to affect my children and their children. I was awed at the power I wielded. Hmm, I never gave it a thought that I might not be able to do it. I just knew I could.

    So now here I am. My oldest just turned 50 last week. He’s a decent loving committed man to his wife. My other two children are also married and are decent loving people. The youngest has children now and they are well adjusted and delightful and accomplished.

    I’m happy to pass on what I have learned to us all at least for a while until I move on with my current passions. I am happy the children have done as I said, not done what I did. πŸ™‚

    I treasure their common sense advice. Hmm, I wonder where they got it? What goes around comes around thank goddess.

    Thanks for being you Azure Blu.

  109.  #109lovetodance on May 1, 2015 at 1:43 pm

    azure blu

    i am so happy reading what you have been writing…it comes across loud and clear to me that the internal work you have been doing…learning to really love yourself…..even with all the nuances, changes, moods of that….is something that is capable of immense transformation for all of us!

    thank you for sharing as you go along….i am happy that spirit is stepping up…he is a lucky man… and in all honesty….the love i feel you have for yourself….and the tools that you have been honing give me the greatest joy to hear from you!

    many blessings dear azure…many blessings!

  110.  #110lovetodance on May 1, 2015 at 1:48 pm

    ahhhh mistea1

    what joy you must feel about your children…how they have thrived and grown to be good people…. the cascading effect of being able to see and experience that as their and their childrens lives unfold….

    and yes it is never to late to be all that we need and want to be….you are presenting them with a wonderful model of age note being of significance when it comes to growth and depth and learning and transformation…

    thank you mistea1 for all your honest and deep [tinged with lovely irony] on this blog….
    always love hearing from you!

  111.  #111Mistea1 on May 1, 2015 at 3:51 pm

    lovetodance 110,
    Yes, I’m recovering my sense of humor too.

    I am surprised as well what a turn I have taken. One of my best friends is coming here in a few weeks with her daughter to visit family. It will be interesting to find out what she makes of my personality change. Will she notice it?

    You seem to have a good handle on things and I enjoy your advice to others and your help in keeping me on the path. In appreciation. xoxo

  112.  #112lovetodance on May 1, 2015 at 7:56 pm

    Mistea1 …
    wondering if it is a personality ‘change’ or just being more of the person you are?

    what do you think?

  113.  #113Margaret on May 1, 2015 at 8:11 pm

    Azure Blu or any other siren,

    I find myself in a conflicted situation, I’m not quite sure what to do. I dated and fell in love with a man. We broke up like a year ago, he was with someone else. A couple of months ago he sent me some emails, saying hi and wanting to find out how I was doing. I didn’t respond because I was confused. My parents (overprotective) contacted him and asked him to leave me alone. Since then he sends me hellos through a mutual friend but has not tried to contact me personally. I’m still in love I want to lean back, but given the situation should I contact him? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks

  114.  #114lovetodance on May 2, 2015 at 9:35 am

    mistea1 111

    Thank youl!

  115.  #115Azure Blu on May 2, 2015 at 10:41 am

    lovetodance #109
    Ahhh… thank you for those wonderful words of affirmation!!
    It feels good to hear that my journey is helpful for others!!

  116.  #116Azure Blu on May 2, 2015 at 10:48 am

    Margaret… #113
    How lovely to hear from you…
    I feel flattered you are asking for input from me…

    For me, I would NOT contact this man…
    He is with another woman…
    Your parents have asked him to leave you alone…
    they are wise and realize
    A man who is with a woman (whom he obviously loves)
    AND is contacting you behind her back is
    Sleazy, underhanded and a liar…
    AND would do the same to you (which HE probably did with this other woman, when he was with YOU)

    YOU deserve Sooooo much better!
    Tell your friend to tell him… DON’t EVER Contact YOU again…
    Stay here with us on Siren Island…
    Learn MORE about YOU, YOUR feelings
    Get some free coaching with Rori’s coaches…
    and start CDing…
    We welcome you here!!

  117.  #117Azure Blu on May 2, 2015 at 10:58 am

    MisTea1 #108
    Ohhh… how lovely to hear about your children/grandchildren…
    Your exquisite love for your family!!!
    and how you made the loving authentic decision to offer new ways to navigate life, than you had been given!!!
    Sounds like you are doing a GREAT job…
    As lovetd said:
    How wonderful for our children to see
    Changing, growing, becoming more and more loving and compassionate can happen throughout our lives!!!

  118.  #118Mistea1 on May 2, 2015 at 2:28 pm

    Lovetodance and Azure,

    Yes, the children did turn out good. The decision that I made to change how I did things and to know that I could do it way back when was the most surprising thing about this. Now I look back at my knowing that this would make a difference and that I could do it and agree, yes, i made that change!

  119.  #119Mistea1 on May 2, 2015 at 2:39 pm

    Margaret 113,
    While I agree in part with Azure Blu about keeping away from him I would like for you to consider something in addition to that. I’m assuming you are over 21 and thus your own person.

    The first conversation I would have is with your parents. While they are welcome to give you advice they should not be actively interfering in your life. It’s disrespectful of them to another adult. If that had happened to me I would have been soooo mad.

    I am going to refer you to the book by Rabbi Shmuely Boteach called Kosher Lust. This book is written primarily for couples but he has a few pages about the process of how a girl grows up and begins to separate from her parents to begin her independent life. This is what I’m basing my suggestion on.

    Rori’s tools will help you separate the jerks from the schmucks from the toxics, from the clueless from the good guys. Have fun CDing!!

  120.  #120Mistea1 on May 2, 2015 at 3:12 pm

    lovetodance 113,

    Ooh Siren, what a question.

    I believe it is a real personality change based on circumstances that occurred to me from the age of one year on. I would say the change is back to what I would have been from one year on if the circumstances back then had not occurred. That’s about as clear as I can make it without giving you chapter and verse.

    I do know that after the change I was very unsettled for a while. One part of me would say and do something and another part of me would be rather nonplussed though pleased with the new response. I was happy to find Siren Island and you all helped me so much.

    MusicTd was being his narcissistic self with really no concern for me personally I would guess. He’s made a good catalyst though. He seems to be unchanged by all my goings on like a good catalyst would!

    I’ve been researching this music and emotions thing. I have been invited to take part in a research project at the local Univ. about musicians and brain development. I’m just an interviewee right now.

    From what i’ve been finding out I’m thinking that I should get a couple of singing birds. I remember that my mother had them after she retired. I’d forgotten that until today. Hmm. I remember too that it was her who encouraged me to take music lessons and she worked extra to pay for them.

    Well, there you go. I’ll be happy to answer any questions but I’m sure everyone almost is overly familiar with my story. πŸ™‚

    Thanks for the help lovetodance. I appreciate it. xoxo

  121.  #121Mistea1 on May 2, 2015 at 3:18 pm

    Oh yes, knowing that I could and did make a major change in family dynamics way back when is really helpful now that I am looking at another very large change. If I did it then I can do it now, right?

  122.  #122Lavender on May 2, 2015 at 8:13 pm

    Labbit 51

    Thank you for your advice and response πŸ™‚
    I did not say anything to him about this because I realize I still need to work on what it is I am REALLY feeling.
    I don’t think I am very good at the feeling messages and will definitely make love scripts my next investment.
    To be honest, I feel like I am coming from a controlling place, like I expect him to be just as cautious of his remain friends as I am about my male friends. And I know this is a big NO NO. So I’m just working on me…

  123.  #123lovetodance on May 2, 2015 at 9:54 pm


    my hit is that you are doing wonderful integration work now…
    no time like the present…to be able look back, to be in the present…to re-member….re-form….re-flect…re-connect…re-concile….

    good precious work savvy siren!

  124.  #124Margaret on May 3, 2015 at 6:29 am

    Azure Blu and Mistea1,

    Thank you so much for your kind words. It’s tough love for me, but what I needed to hear. There is so much for me to learn, but I hope to get there step by step. Thanks again πŸ™‚

  125.  #125Margaret on May 3, 2015 at 1:13 pm

    #116 & #119
    Does it matter if he is single now?

  126.  #126Mistea1 on May 3, 2015 at 1:33 pm

    Margaret 125,
    Well, it’s still good to look at how he handled things when he was involved. He may do the same with you. He may get so involved with another and not want to risk any misbehavior. You want him to get so emotionally involved with you that he won’t risk it.

  127.  #127Azure Blu on May 4, 2015 at 2:59 am

    I’m thinking because I have so little information about your situation
    I shouldn’t give any thoughts on it…
    I’m realizing my post may have been way off the mark
    How old are you that your parents would have gotten involved?

  128.  #128Mistea1 on May 4, 2015 at 7:19 am


    Can you update on your situation? Are you reaching equilibrium again? How are you doing that?

    I am finding it surprisingly helpful to listen to another (my friend) tell me about how he acts. Very interesting.

    It really helps me see how ordinary things are and who is in his harem. I have to chuckle that the woman who showed me how to access the organ that I played and got into trouble over is his girlfriend! Too,too, funny.

    Then her comment that she is way down at the bottom of the list when it comes to being asked to play at a service. Somehow, I have no interest in someone who puts me at the bottom of any list. Very helpful information. I’m feeling better and better.

    Interesting, how he neglected to mention her when he was telling me about how he was in contact with his ex, his children, students, etc.,etc. Too bad I didn’t ask about the girlfriend at that time. He probably isn’t having much contact with those others!!

    Way too much game playing for me. I’ll be way more alert for even the slightest whift of anything like this again.

    Hmm, the more she (my friend) talked the quicker the whole situation tumbled into a heap at my feet. Hah !!

    It’s up to me to solve the emotion and music issue. A worthy problem.

  129.  #129Azure Blu on May 4, 2015 at 8:01 am

    I am feeling confused and curious
    who is this lady a girlfriend to?

  130.  #130Mistea1 on May 4, 2015 at 8:44 am

    Azure blu 129

    It is a bit confusing I admit. This is all about MusicTd. The woman who was telling me this is an old girlfriend who is now further down the list. The woman who showed me about the organ several months ago is the official girlfriend that everyone knows about. I didn’t know her name until yesterday and realized it was the same name of the woman I met who showed me about the organ earlier.

    This is a group of people who all kind of know about each other and kind of don’t know about each other. I experienced this in another big church group I was in many years ago. I think it is dishonest and way too superficial.

    I don’t mind being in a mixed group of friends but this passing each other around in kind of a sneaky way doesn’t sit well with me. Have you ever experienced this in your group of dancing friends?

  131.  #131Azure Blu on May 4, 2015 at 9:12 am

    Ohhh… much clearer now…

    Mmmmm…. I’m not familiar with the ballroom dancing group (only the few times Spirit has taken me)
    but I think it might be a lot like this…
    However… I have friends who have met their Mr. Right in these dance groups!! :-))
    Salsa, Square Dance, Swing, Tango (I didn’t experience any of this with my Tango lessons… but then it was only 8 weeks)
    I think much of this goes on with any group…
    We just have to decide what we will participate in and what we won’t…

  132.  #132Mistea1 on May 4, 2015 at 10:14 am

    Azure Blu,
    Yes, I agree one could find Mr/Ms Right in these groups. I am probably naive about this. I thought this guy was well a meaning, person like I was used to. I know I let the music issue cloud my psyche. I also didn’t realize the neurocheimical addictive aspect of this.

    That and more served to cloud the issue. But in order to really answerMusicTd’s uestion to me. “Are you still alive?” ” Yes indeed I am and I intend to thrive too.”
    Thanks for helping me clarify.

  133.  #133Margaret on May 5, 2015 at 5:03 pm

    Azure Blu #127

    I am 36. It was a really really bad breakup when I found out its been over a year now. He hasn’t tried to contact me for 2 months now. But, I just want to be prepared for when he does, if he does.

  134.  #134Christine on May 9, 2015 at 5:34 pm

    Hi peoples.
    I need some advice. My boyfriend and love-of-my-life of 7 years, often takes things I say the wrong way (usually when he’s drinking), and then I don’t hear from him for days (sometimes weeks). I try to hold out, but after ‘weeks’ I usually end up ringing him, and then he sounds happy to hear from me and as if nothing happened! I’m going through it again at the moment. He got angry over the phone and hung-up on me. Two days later I sent him an email (so i could word my feelings with my best RR knowledge and not blurt out the wrong things). I expressed my feelings about the fight, my concern about his drinking, my love for him, and my wanting to move forward with him and us to be happy. I haven’t heard from him at all! It’s been nine days now! I’m going crazy!

  135.  #135Rori Raye on May 12, 2015 at 9:58 pm

    Christine – I know this is not going to sound or feel good – but I don’t understand why you’re with this man at all, and if I were you I’d dump him like a cold potato and start Circular Dating like mad. Pleae try out one of my Certified Coaches – they’re amazing, and will set you straight. Love, Rori

  136.  #136Indigo on May 12, 2015 at 10:32 pm

    Oh Christine.


    There is just nothing for you with this man. A man who doesn’t contact you for weeks on end doesn’t love you. You are overfunctioning big time but it’s because you are trying to have a relationship with a man who just isn’t there.

  137.  #137Christine on May 14, 2015 at 4:27 am

    Wow. Not

  138.  #138Christine on May 14, 2015 at 5:13 am

    I feel a bit devastated hearing the advise that I should dump my boyfriend. He has been the love-of-my-life for 7 years. I don’t want to live without him, so I need to find ways to improve our communication. I actually had a realization last Sunday, when I ended up taking the initiative (which I don’t normally do), and rang him, and he sounded so happy to hear from me. I realized that his problem is not that he doesn’t want to contact me, but that he thinks I don’t want to hear from him, and he then sinks into a depression of feeling that I don’t want to be with him because he lost the plot. All along I was feeling insecure about myself not being good enough, but it seems he was also feeling the same. He has been so lovely since. He obviously took to heart everything I wrote in my letter to him …he has been working hard at fighting his alcohol addiction over the last couple of weeks. If it was anyone else I have had a relationship with in my life, yeah sure I could find the inspiration to walk away, but the few times I have decided to leave this boyfriend, my heart hurt so bad, I didn’t want to live. So after the last time, I promised myself I would never do that again, and that I would find a way to fix the relationship. I have such a strong soul-connection with him …it just feels so ‘against the grain’ when I think about my life without him. His friends have all told me that he is a much happier person since I came along, and that he is extremely moody when we have a falling-out. He does have his bad points, but he is also the most wonderful loving caring man. I guess it’s hard to describe a complete person in a few sentences. I recently bought Rori’s complete collection, as I really want to learn the skills to make our relationship work, for both of our sakes. Leaving him is really not an option for me.

  139.  #139Christine on May 14, 2015 at 5:18 am

    Oops …please disregard comment 137 …that was an error, and I can’t seem to delete it.

  140.  #140Indigo on May 14, 2015 at 5:44 am


    You know, I understand completely how you feel. I have walked away from my guy on a few occasions, and it just felt so totally unnatural and wrong – in a way that was extremely strong and I couldn’t explain to other people. I loved him far more than I have ever loved anyone and I was not willing to give up. Anyway, I decided to do things differently, and guess what things have improved dramatically and continue to do so. You don’t have to walk away from this man, but perhaps you will allow me to share some of my hard-earned wisdom with you. Lean back. Even if it feels difficult, even if it feels unnatural, even if there are 1000 things you want to say to him. Create the space for him. Let him come to you. Lean back as much as you can and keep increasing it. Don’t call, text, e-mail or try to “communicate”. Let him initiate. Don’t try to solve his problems or the problems of the relationship. This is all masculine work.

    As much as you can, try to keep your thoughts and focus away from him, and on your own life. Get busy with work, personal projects, friends, family, hobbies or anything that is meaningful to you. Take great care of yourself and pamper yourself. Get manicures, put together new outfits, take bubble baths… whatever feels good. The point is that you need to start feeling like a goddess, rather than thinking about fixing things. Relationships heal when the masculine and feminine come back into balance.

    Good luck

  141.  #141Femininewoman on May 14, 2015 at 6:32 am

    Indigo I feel shocked about the comment that a man who doesn’t contact you for weeks on end doesn’t love you. How do you know that is true?

  142.  #142Femininewoman on May 14, 2015 at 6:37 am

    Christine I take Rori’s advice to dump him as basically encouraging you to get your energy off your guy so you won’t find excuses to overfunction. In this way he will demonstrate his ability to do relationship. If you keep picking up the slack you won’t know if he is capable. Even if both of you are in love with each other it doesn’t mean he has the skills to do relationship. When you drop him cold turkey then he will have an opportunity to deal with his own internal issues. You can’t do that for him. I also do believe Rori wants you to cdate so you can get your juice up and running. Your happy vibe is what could possibly inspire your guy.

  143.  #143Femininewoman on May 14, 2015 at 6:45 am

    Hi Margaret. I wonder what type of relationship your parents had with him. At your age they should have asked your permission but I wonder what the relationship you have with them is like? Maybe this is about learning to set boundaries? Was this guy living with someone were you dating him? Also were you in a committed exclusive relationship?

    I ask because if you were just dating, as you said, then unless you had a conversation about dating others and the type of relationship you wanted and he agreed to give you that then I’d ask why would you be shocked at him dating others.

  144.  #144Indigo on May 14, 2015 at 6:54 am

    Feminine Woman,

    I did not mean it to be taken literally – of course I do not know that is true in absolute terms. But a man who is not contacting you for weeks at a time, regularly, as a pattern, without some unusual circumstances going on in his life, in general is not demonstrating love or care for you, no.

  145.  #145Indigo on May 14, 2015 at 6:56 am

    Feminine Woman,

    To be honest I feel very taken aback and somewhat affronted by your shock. Maybe that is my trigger. I suppose I assume and hope that my words will be taken in the general spirit of my writing and not in absolute, literal terms.

  146.  #146Kalexiko on June 18, 2015 at 7:30 am

    Hi Rori, I don’t understand the “You don’t sleep with anyone else” part of circular dating. If I only sleep with one man and go on coffee dates etc with others, that just means that the others are ordinary “friends”, not romantic prospects.
    At least after 3 coffee dates they will notice that I have no interest in having sex with them, so they’ll either stop dating me, or become just friends.
    Wouldn’t true circular dating include having sex with anyone you like, until he proposes?

  147.  #147Rori Raye on June 19, 2015 at 4:33 pm

    Kalexiko – and who said you don’t have any “interest” in sleeping with them! You just don’t DO it! And – you DO kiss them, make out with them, touch them, flirt with them…and if they turn out to be better for you than the guy you’re with – you switcheroo…Love, Rori

  148.  #148Kalexiko on June 20, 2015 at 10:26 am

    I see… The whole concept is quite… genius πŸ™‚
    Like that I’ll be solving two problems at once. A: I’m not stressed out about current guy. B: I won’t mess up other prospects by sleeping with them too early, since I’m already having sex with current guy.
    Only problem is this:
    I think that guys around my age..(40-45) have too many choices (at least the ones I like do..). They don’t stick around if they don’t get sex. They also become really annoying and obsessed, or even angry if they don’t.
    But on the other hand, that’s their problem then… I’ll still get advantages A and B. πŸ™‚
    Thanks!!! πŸ™‚

  149.  #149Anasha on July 8, 2015 at 3:20 am

    Hey ladies! Can someone please help me? I want to have the “no girlfriend ” speech. Everything “was” perfect until I started feeling anxious. Now that we have worked through some things I feel that we are in a better place but there is still the underlying anxiousness because I am still very unsure of where this is going. So far this is my speach………. Please feel free to reply to it with suggestions.

    “It really feels good being with you. I love that I can be myself around you. But, I don’t feel completely safe. I don’t want to feel anxious. I don’t want to feel unsure. I don’t want to pressure you. I am really looking to be married and I don’t feel comfortable shutting down and being exclusive while everything is so unclear and marriage is not on the table. What do you think?”

    I appreciate your feedback. Thanks!

  150.  #150Kalexiko on July 12, 2015 at 7:26 am

    it actually sounds like an ultimatum. Like: “Either you put marriage on the table, or I’ll date other guys. Your choice.” You could as well just give him the normal ultimatum πŸ˜‰
    If I were you, I would just make myself really rare and busy with other things, go out with girlfriends, and see if the situation improves after maybe a month or two, before giving any kind of ultimatum. I don’t believe that the reason for your anxiety is that “marriage is not on the table”. Also married women can be anxious! Its probably because he is not attentive enough, because he is taking you for granted.