Is He Off Limits Because He Has a Girlfriend?

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Here’s a hot topic on the blog right now:

First I want to tell you how much your tools have helped me and how thankful I am to have found you. I feel so much more open, authentic, happy and feminine (& comfortable in my femininity) since I started using your tools about 6 months ago.

I know that you say a girlfriend doesn’t make a guy off limits, but I can’t find where and am having a hard time getting comfortable with that. I’m super intrigued by a guy I work with (but not closely. He’s only in the office once a week for about half an hour) but who has a girlfriend. He’s made it no secret that he’s attracted, but when he took me out a couple months ago, he mentioned he has a girlfriend.

We haven’t seen each other since, but we talk often. He’s a combination of masculine, caring and sensitive that I’m finding hard to resist and is admittedly unhappy with her. I told him I felt curious about why he’s with her if he’s obviously not happy with her. I found it more endearing that he didn’t  speak badly of her, just says they fight all the time and she keeps saying she’s moving out of state and he tells her, “then go!” But she stays. Apparently they dated awhile ago, and she got pregnant but he wasn’t the only one he was sleeping with. He’s been helping to raise the baby anyway.

When I’m around him I feel feminine, open & genuine – like he brings out all of my very best qualities & it seems it’s only a matter of time before the girlfriend is history. It’s so easy for me to practice the tools on him and I like that – alot. I have no intention of taking this any further as long as the gf is around. I keep feeling guilty that we’re so flirty, but remind myself that she’s a girlfriend, not a wife. There are lots of questions, but seemingly no good answers around this subject on the blog right now. I’m wondering what your advice would be in this situation.”

Okay – I want to clean this up.

Let’s say you’ve got Targeting Mr. Right – and you’re Circular Dating.  You are a Circular Dating Diva.”

You meet a guy who flirts with you and even asks you out once.

He shows up at your work occasionally because he works there occasionally, and always flirts with you.

He told you on your date that he has a girlfriend. Who has a baby. He’s not clear on whether or not the baby is his baby, too. (If you’d like to help me get this straight, I’d love it…otherwise, we’ll just call it a question mark.)

Now…you like him.

He’s perfect.

He’s attracted to you – you can tell.

And….that’s it. That’s all there is.

You don’t have to do anything until HE does something.

The girlfriend means NOTHING – unless it means something to HIM! He’s “fair game” in that you need have no guilt feelings about dating him.

BUT – if he’s in love with her – you’re never going to get close to him.  Not going to happen.

If she’s a “for now” girlfriend – you have as excellent chance of him moving closer to you as HE has of getting closer to you. In other words, the playing field is “level.”

So – here’s the deal: Are you wasting your time and energy on him?

And the answer is ALWAYS YES!!!!!

No matter WHAT the circumstances (he’s recently separated, just divorced, getting divorced, living with a girlfriend but not in love with her….whatever) the ONLY thing that matters is what he DOES around YOU.

If he makes a lot of effort to see you, then you get to set your perimeters of how you want this to look (he has to be officially separated or divorced, he has to move out of the girlfriend’s house…whatever you want…).

If he makes a lot of effort to see you, it’s exactly the same as with any OTHER man you’re Circular Dating.

If he makes a little bit of effort to see you – it’s STILL the same as with any other man you’re Circular Dating.

If he makes no effort at all to see you – then –there’s not even anything to Circular Date with.

He’s either there or he isn’t.

It might take time to find out where this man is.  In the meantime – you Circular Date him.  That means you flirt, you have coffee – whatever HE invites you to…and you observe. You observe to see if you’re a good match, if you’re on the same page, if you’re in the same place.

If you start to feel uncomfortable, you back off. You stop Circular Dating him.

I know this sounds way too simple – but it IS SIMPLE!!!

Just by trying to figure this out – you’re giving him WAY too much power!

See if you can take his circumstances and this other woman out of the picture, and just respond to him the way you would ANY man. Practice with him the way you would ANY man. Stay OPEN to him the way you would ANY man.

Can you break the situation down this way?  It requires stripping away all the extra stuff that’s crowding your thinking around this. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with his girlfriend/no-girlfriend situation.

He’s either there with you or he’s not.

Let’s see what he does.

YOU, in the meantime, Circular Date and keep in good touch with how you’re FEELING. Because here’s what the REAL problem is:

Because you’re unsure about the “logistics” of his situation, it’s making it so you can’t be open, authentic, warm, openly attracted to him, confident with him.  All the Modern Siren things you know how to be. You can’t practice drawing him in, because you’re feeling confused and guilty about his “situation.”

You’ve created a situation here with a man who you don’t know his actual “availability.”  So….FORGET ABOUT THAT!!!

Just Circular Date him. Practice trusting yourself in the moment instead of trying to guess what’s going on, and what’s going to go on several moments from now.

He’ll fill in the blanks as you go – and if there’s nothing there – you won’t be invested because – you KNOW how to do this!!

If you’d like to take a look at Targeting Mr. Right – which is the program for this kind of situation…here’s the link:Targeting Mr. Right

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Senior Lady Vibe on October 28, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Top of the World…again. A good sign. 😀 I’ll go read Rori’s post now…


  2.  #2Denise on October 28, 2010 at 5:12 pm

    I know you love being on top, SLV! Tehehehe

  3.  #3Lucy on October 28, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    Very interesting article…. hmm…

  4.  #4Lucy on October 28, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    “If you start to feel uncomfortable, you back off. You stop Circular Dating him.”

    I assume that applies to ALL men, not just those with gf’s. I like that. It’s better than having to just not be repulsed by him in order to stop.

  5.  #5Denise on October 28, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    I like the advice to “trust yourself in the moment”.

    I have urged myself to do this- and enjoy those precious moments we share without expectation. Life is so short, we must practice until perfect.

    Additionally, showing up is a huge % of the job- when I was younger I had no idea that reliability would be vital to my needs. If the guy shows up, is reliable, (and accountable) attractive, and agreeable, wow, the bases are loaded, it is heading towards a home run!
    = Can’t help myself- it is the World Series!

  6.  #6Senior Lady Vibe on October 28, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    @2: Denise says:

    “…I know you love being on top, SLV! Tehehehe”

    Yes, I do. Yippee Ki-yay! 😀


  7.  #7Lucy on October 28, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    I don’t know why, but I’m totally feeling like asking a guy out right now. No one in particular. Is it a Halloween vibe or something?? I have felt like this the last two days. Hmmm… I wonder if this is the time of year when I asked my favorite boyfriend in the world (former fiance) to the Sadie Hawkins banquet before we had started dating. It was sometime in the fall. Probably end of October! And it went very well….

    I feel rebellious.

  8.  #8Lucy on October 28, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    Hehe. Just found out Sadie Hawkins Day is the first Saturday in November. 🙂

    Wow. It’s like I’m feeling the good vibe from way back in college. It was a couple weeks after that date that he kissed me the first time and I was very surprised bc we were friends and I didn’t know he felt the same way about me that I did about him — until he kissed me. It was the best first kiss ever, emotionally. Wow. I remember it so well. (WH’s was the best first kiss physically. Smokin’.)

  9.  #9RTCathy on October 28, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    Ooooh I am so angry right now, I went on a fab date with BMW man today, he took me bowling, cooked me dinner, told me how beautiful I was. It was perfect… almost. He is so rushing everything though, he wants me with him all the time, he wants to get physical, he says I am being unfaithful if I CD, it tests my boundries big time. He gets annoyed when i state my feelings around boundries.
    Tonight I tried to give him the feel good with him but dont want to move into physical relationship speech and he said that I am just projecting my previous bad relationships onto this situation! Arggggggghhhhh. then he said next time I come over maybe I will feel more comfortable and stay overnight (i’ve been seeing him for three weeks).
    I wonder if he is unable to look at it from my point of view, I know this is a bit strong but he does have an almost sociopathic charm!

  10.  #10Flora* on October 28, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    Rori, I have been in a long distance relationship for a year now and we are both about to complete our divorces. We see each other most weekends and he is very attentive, looks after me really well and does all the calling and arranging of dates. However, we never talk about anything serious for the future, we both have a child and I am feeling let down about this. A couple of weeks ago I asked him what he saw for us and he said he didn’t know so I did the no girlfriend speech and said I was going to be open to offers from other men, although wanted to remain sexually exclusive to him. He said he understood and then became sulky. Since then he has been calling less and has been moody, insecure and detached. I am wondering what to do next. It seems pointless to stay with a man who isn’t even considering a future, whether I am circular dating or not. What do you advise?

  11.  #11Senior Lady Vibe on October 28, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    @9: RTCathy says:

    “… then he said next time I come over maybe I will feel more comfortable and stay overnight (i’ve been seeing him for three weeks)…”

    Hmmm, then in that situation I wouldn’t be “going over” for about two months or until I felt entirely comfortable. What do you think?


  12.  #12Honey on October 28, 2010 at 6:21 pm

    Regarding the post…I’m rebelling…I would not date a man with a girlfriend. If he has a girlfriend, and is going out on her without her knowledge, then he is dishonest and not a man of integrity. If he does it to her, then he might do it to me.

    Sorry RR…it’s not always about getting what I want at the expense of another AND what the heck would a woman want with a liar and cheat anyway?

    If he doesn’t want to be with his GF then he should do the honorable thing and break up with her, THEN date someone else.

    I’m ashamed to admit I’ve been through this situation myself. It’s tough when you meet someone you connect with, but not worth it.

    OK, Sirens, go ahead and blast me for bucking the system.

  13.  #13Lucy on October 28, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    I hear ya, Honey. I still feel uncertain about the whole thing. I feel confused about TN man connecting with me the way he does when he has a girlfriend. But I think he probably didn’t promise her exclusivity.

  14.  #14Honey on October 28, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    RTCathy –

    What evidence does he have that this has something to do with your previous relationships?

    Maybe you’re just not freakin’ ready! Doesn’t he care at all about how you feel? If he cares, he will wait until you are ready. He’s only thinking about what HE wants and what HE needs, and he’s probably used to getting it. But that doesn’t mean you have to give it to him when he’s not ready. He is expecting the moon after 3 weeks. And really, it doesn’t matter what he expects…this is about you and what you want.

    Ooooo…I feel triggered. Probably because it is easy for me to fall for a trap like the one he is setting. It is so much easier to talk boundaries when it is SOMEONE ELSES situation and not mine!

    Once I’m getting hooked on someone, please Sirens, talk me down!

  15.  #15Luzy on October 28, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    LOL Honey I agree with you. I make my own way to Circular Date. I can’t go on many dates anyway I hardly have the time for 2 or 3 guys during the weekend why would I waste my time with some one who is already showing red flags.

  16.  #16Renee on October 28, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    Ok…now I’m triggered!!!

    Posted on the other thread about this great convo I had w/a financial advisor who was on his way to play tennis and was going to call me back after the match in “no more than an hour and a half”…it’s now been an hour and 45 mins and still no call…I just don’t get it!

    I thought our conversation flowed so well on the phone and yet here he is basically standing me up!!! I could make excuses for him (the match lasted longer than he thought, he ended up hanging out talking with his tennis partners, etc.), but the fact of the matter is that he isn’t calling when he said he would and that’s a really crappy way to start a “relationship”…of course, maybe he doesn’t give a crap about having a relationship because so far, his efforts haven’t been particularly impressive (txted me a couple of times after he got my number but waited a week to actually give me a call).

    I know I shouldn’t be all caught up in one guy, but I was really starting to buy into the idea of “poetic justice” where the guy who broke my heart would actually be bested by the next guy…sigh. What a disappointment 🙁 .

  17.  #17Renee on October 28, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    I agree w/u, Honey. If the guy’s not man enough to go ahead and break up w/his gf before he goes out with someone else, he’s likely to pull the same stunt on you when your time comes…I say — it’s not worth it!

  18.  #18Renee on October 28, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    Well, tennis guy finally txted me just now — he said he got caught up on the phone w/a guy who’s doing work on his house and apologized for not calling back. Then he asked me if I wanted to do lunch or something low key on the way to see his parents (he lives 90 mins away and passes through my city on the way to see his parents).

    I don’t know…I think he still could have called, even though he was 30 mins late…I guess it’s possible he thought 10pm was too late to be calling at all, but even so, I would have appreciated the gesture. And I really prefer to meet for a drink instead of lunch…I don’t really “do” lunch, other than my protein shakes. I’m trying to appreciate what he’s offering here, but does that mean I have to accept exactly what he’s offering?

    I think I’m going to wait until tomorrow to reply, but I don’t know what to say. What do you think?

  19.  #19Chrissy on October 28, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    I have a huge problem with this post and the idea in general. Some girlfriends never become wives. They are happy to be live in girlfriends. So I am very uncomfortable with the statement “she’s a girlfriend not a wife” as if that makes it ok to move in on another woman’s man!

    I am a girlfriend. We live together and are moving towards marriage but I am still a girlfriend. It would never be acceptable in our relationship for my boyfriend to be going on dates and flirting with another woman. I would consider that to be cheating and a relationship dealbreaker.

    I am so triggered by this post I almost dont want to visit this site anymore! To advocate going after someone else’s partner as a way of practising your tools feels so disrespectful to me

  20.  #20Daria on October 28, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    I feel glad and very in tune with this post.

    My feeling good is never at the expense of another I am sure of this.

    If it felt that way … that would go under “uncomfortable”

    Rori also mentions requiring he move out the house wiht her, breaking up, etc… if he is pursuing us strongly

  21.  #21Daria on October 28, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    I think all the triggering is a good thing! yay!

  22.  #22Honey on October 28, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    Renee –

    Oh my, I’m just going to give it to you straight…cut the guy some slack. Yo were mad after he was late 15 minutes! My first thought was, “Maybe he’s on the toilet and it’s taking awhile.” LOL

    Sometimes things come up and you have to deal with them. I know they do for me – either with my kids or with some kind of business. It’s not like he stood you up and you were waiting for him at some restaurant with no clue where he was. He apologized and I think that’s fine – he acknowledged he kept you waiting and called as soon as he could.

    Don’t be too hard on him until you know his situation. He might be really busy right now or working hard on his career and a great guy…or he could be a flake. It’s too soon to know.

    If you’re angry, wait until tomorrow and sleep on it.

  23.  #23Senior Lady Vibe on October 28, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    @11: Honey says:

    “If he does it to her, then he might do it to me.

    Oh, I think he would. I don’t need the aggravation. If he’s a new guy why add him to the rotation? If he’s added the girlfriend while we were CDing then I don’t need him anymore. Either way, I wouldn’t want him.

    And that’s just for casual kind of “girlfriends.” I would certainly be uncomfortable going out on the town with a guy whose pregnant girlfriend is large with child on the other side of town. That would feel yucky to and I would not respect a man deciding to have dating relationships while in that circumstance.

    So I’m not a “whole siren” it seems. I’m OK with that…


  24.  #24Renee on October 28, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    Honey — yah, that’s why I’m waiting til tomorrow to get back with him…cause I got irritated. He’s my first real foray back into the dating world and my guard is on extra high right now, especially because he’s a very good looking man who I’m sure has lots of women to choose from…I’m a little paranoid about this one, whereas w/Blondie, I just didn’t give a crap.

    So…what I was wondering, though, was what to say about meeting for a drink instead of lunch. I mean, I realize it would be “convenient” for him to just grab lunch on the way to his parents’ house, but I’d rather know he’s willing to go out of his way for me up front…he seemed genuinely nice on the phone, but like I said, he’s very handsome, so I’m a little paranoid about letting him get away with much…

  25.  #25Daria on October 28, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    if he does it to her super does NOT mean he’ll do it to me


    I am a different woman…

    that would be like me not marrying a man because i didn’t marry another

    it’s about the emotional connection

    and what a woman will not tolerate

    all the gfs are getting triggered … probably because it feels unsafe to realize that there’s no real commitment until there’s a forever commitment

    either you will be forever, or he (or she) Will leave… and to another woman of course

    it’s all good

    we all have past relationships… and many people get into gf/bf situations because its a habit

    it doesn’t mean they intend to be with that person forever

    so when someone else comes along, and that may be their “forever”… then they will leave and pursue her

    it can happen in marriages too…

    it’s the emotional connection that matters


    and there’s really no fear of going too far… because a woman aware of her feelings will start to feel uncomfortable much earlier

    for example, i feel uncomfortable as soon as he says… “i should tell you i have a gf”



    i don’t want to hear about other women!!!!


    “i live with a girl, but we’re not really together anymore”

    ok, you can see me…

    but if i start liking him then “i don’t feel comfortable getting close to you – I wouldn’t feel SAFE – knowing you go home to another woman”

    so, any “issue” gets shot in the foot really early

    there is no point to focus thinking wise on whats going on with him

    focusing on my feelings takes care of any issues before they start

  26.  #26Daria on October 28, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    And no man would be able to do the same thing to me anyway… because I don’t become a gf…

    I will only go for marriage… and I think the guy working hard enough to claim me, provide for me, and be honest with me and make me feel safe will make his commitment clear to me

    theres never a guarantee… but that effort is pretty much all the guarantee i need

  27.  #27Daria on October 28, 2010 at 7:35 pm

    Renee – it’s bested by Another guy, not necessarily by the next guy…

  28.  #28Honey on October 28, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    I usually tell guys I’d prefer to meet for coffee or a drink first. Lots of people do that.

    The needing to know if he’d “go out of his way” for you sounds a bit defensive…which is understandable given what you’ve gone through lately. At the same time, just putting him through a “test” sounds a bit controlling…again understandable because you are trying to protect yourself from hurt. Testing someone is different from just setting a boundary. This is your masculine energy that you are holding onto. Do you think maybe you could let it go and relax into your feminine energy with no expectations?

    If you really aren’t comfortable meeting for lunch, and a drink would feel better, then it would be sireny to let him know that. But if you really are ok with lunch, why not? At the very least you get a free lunch. lol And he might be a really nice guy. He could be your next prince charming or he could be a pleasant lunch companion and that’s it. Either way, it’s a good opportunity to practice your tools.

    Renee, I know you are afraid of getting hurt. You must trust yourself enough to know that you can take care of yourself. Even if you make a mistake, you will be ok.

    Now I need to go copy this post so I can email it to myself the next time I feel the same way you do right now. LOL

  29.  #29Honey on October 28, 2010 at 7:40 pm

    Renee #27 is for you…forgot to put your name first.

  30.  #30Senior Lady Vibe on October 28, 2010 at 7:43 pm

    @24: Daria says:

    “…we all have past relationships… and many people get into gf/bf situations because its a habit…”

    I believe most of the concerns expressed here are about relationships that are not yet “past.” No matter what a man says to me, it’s his actions and pattern of behavior which reveal his character.




  31.  #31Senior Lady Vibe on October 28, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    i cut and pasted but dont know how i got all teh slc slv sigh,,,

  32.  #32Honey on October 28, 2010 at 7:49 pm

    Daria –

    I don’t know about that. ALL relationships go through rough patches…sometimes what gets you through is the committment you made whether you feel like being a certain way or not. A committment is a committment. A man can break the committment with a wife or GF – but a man of integrity will be honest about it and not sneak around. He at least owes a woman honesty. Even if they are not getting along, she is a human being.

    It IS about him. I want a man of integrity that does not shift with the wind, or go out on me because we are not getting along well at the moment. Love to me is not only about feelings…it is also an action, regardless of the feeling of the moment.

    I stand by my #11 post of rebellion.

  33.  #33Luzy on October 28, 2010 at 7:49 pm

    I deleted my POF account; One of the reasons I was feeling frustrated was that I met P there in June. I hated when I was online at the same time as him and I start feeling all angry. He was online, but could not send me a text or an email? and I will feel frustrated. I will be using other sites, he can take his POF and shove it (lol). I am feeling better the more I flirt and the more busy I keep myself. I deserve better!

  34.  #34Honey on October 28, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    A marriage committment is only as good as the man who makes it.

  35.  #35Renee on October 28, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    Thanks Daria and Honey — I prefer to meet for a drink for a couple of reasons, one of which is that I don’t really do lunch — I just drink protein shakes during the day so I can eat a full dinner and still keep my weight down, none of which I wanted to explain to him, so I wrote him back (I guess I calmed down enough to write him back after all:) and said I enjoyed talking with him as well and that making plans to meet sounded good but that I “would feel more comfortable meeting for a drink than for lunch…more relaxing that way…what do you think?” He just replied “fine by me”, so as long as he calls w/i the next 2 days as he indicated he would, I’m good…

    I think I’ve also got my guard up more because I just read an article over on BaggageClaim about not making excuses for men and it really resonated with me, cause I’ve been really into making excuses lately when what I should have been doing was calling a spade a spade. On BaggageClaim, they would reframe “maybe he just got tied up and didn’t have time to call” with “he’s not calling when he said he would”, etc…I’m probably going a little overboard w/not wanting to make excuses for him at this point, but it would feel so good if he (or one of the other guys I’m talking to) would really step up and do exactly what he says he’s going to do, you know?

  36.  #36Simply Shannon on October 28, 2010 at 7:54 pm

    Daria, 24 and 25 – I totally, 100% agree. I feel really nervous to comment on this one since I got blasted last time. I feel proud of you for posting! I really get this now. Thank you for being brave!

  37.  #37Daria on October 28, 2010 at 7:54 pm

    Honey – in that case… you would probably feel “uncomfortable” from the very beginning when a man mentions another woman

    I do too

  38.  #38Daria on October 28, 2010 at 7:58 pm

    Shannon – thanks! I love being called brave!

    The irony of possibly being misunderstood

    is that

    I would probably be less likely to get involved with a man who says he has a girlfriend – than a woman who’s busy thinking about/competing with the gf in her mind

    I would instantly feel “not treated well” just hearing something about another woman

    I’ve babystepped to this

    It was really clear when it happened with a guy on the phone… and he said that…

    and i felt turned off and did not pick up his second call

  39.  #39Daria on October 28, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    I don’t even want to hear about EX !! girlfriends…

    Dman was good practice for that

  40.  #40Daria on October 28, 2010 at 8:01 pm

    It’s not about “going after a man”

    It’s about a shift in perception – to MY FEELINGS – that simply prevents anything that doesn’t feel good from happening

    and a man who says he has a gf is Not going to feel good to me

    unless I’m doing some wild experiments… that likely will end up not feeling good anyway…

  41.  #41Simply Shannon on October 28, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    That’s exactly what happened with me. I felt weird and uncomfortable with the possibility of a GF. I had some other interesting insights along the way but mostly felt reservations about it. And it played out exactly as I thought it would. I pretty much said I don’t date men with GFs (solid boundary now), and he dropped out of sight. He still texts me randomly but nothing serious. And frankly I feel bored with him. Not even worth my time. He’s either in front of me with purpose or he’s not.

  42.  #42Honey on October 28, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    Renee –

    I hear ya. I make excuses too. Only I kind of think I know I’m making excuses when I’m making them…which sounds even more psychotic.

    Most people go overboard a little when they learn something new, then eventually find the middle ground. I’m probably going overboard with all this goddess stuff and sound like a total B___ to these poor guys. But whatever…it’s all part of the process.

    I really appreciate having this group to discuss things with. Sometimes it’s hard to know if I’m being too rough or too easy on a guy, and it helps me to sort out my feelings and see what my issues are,

    I’m on a lunch date with Mr. Richie tomorrow. I’m totally not invested but am open to surprises! If he’s boring, so what. If he’s an ass, so what. If he’s fantastic but just not that into me, so freakin’ what! And I need to remember that if he’s fantastic and IS into me, STILL so what. It takes a long time to get to know someone. But if that happens, I will feel weak, so I will just have to get on here so everyone can talk me down! LOL I am a sucker for love!

  43.  #43Daria on October 28, 2010 at 8:04 pm

    I am open however to dating a man who lives with another woman… if he’s telling me he’s no longer interested in her… i choose to believe the man

    she may be doing the clingy wacko dance

    at a point, however, if he still lives with her while getting close to me… probably a very EARLY point…

    I will no longer feel comfortable

    then he will get the:

    “I really don’t feel comfortable getting close to a man who lives with another woman… I feel jealous and weird…

    I really like you and it would feel Great to see you when you have moved out”

  44.  #44Karen on October 28, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    As always, Rori, you hit the nail right on the head! Keep them coming, I love these jewels that give me a new perspective every time. 🙂

  45.  #45Simply Shannon on October 28, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    Daria, yes! I so get that. I felt the tug of the competitive thing. Powerful in a very deceptive way. I’ve done that with every man I’ve ever dated, just on the opposite side. He’s MY man, ya know? And now I get that it just doesn’t feel good when he’s not full-on 100% pursuing just me. In the beginning maybe but after awhile, no. I don’t want to “win” that badly. There will be another man to come along shortly.

    In good news, I’m emailing with several boys right now, with two strong contenders. Haven’t talked on the phone yet but this part feels fun so far, no pressure. I feel good and getting good feeling message practice. Who knows. I feel smiley and that feels REALLY good these days.

  46.  #46Senior Lady Vibe on October 28, 2010 at 8:18 pm

    What is “Baggage Claim?”


  47.  #47Honey on October 28, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    Daria –

    I think I get what you’re saying. Are you saying you trust your feelings to take you down the path you need to go? You are more in touch with your feelings than I am. I would not feel safe to do that at this point in my life. I’m not sure how I will feel about it in the future.

    Regarding a man talking about another woman, that really doesn’t bother me too much. If he was talking a lot about another woman he was dating – yeah, that would bother me and it would be rude. But talking about women from the past, whether positive or negative experiences, tells me about that guy. I WANT to know what happen with his divorce or past GFs…maybe not on the first date, but definitely as time goes on. These women and experiences helped shape who he is today.

  48.  #48Elayne on October 28, 2010 at 8:33 pm

    Lucy, #4…Amen! I had the same thought. Went on a horrible CD last Saturday and was wondering if I had to keep going out with him just to practice…decided I could practice on someone I liked just a bit more.

  49.  #49Daria on October 28, 2010 at 8:40 pm

    Honey – yes I did mean I trust my feelings to take me on the right path

    and sometimes men telling me about exes in the context of past feels ok too…

    however, I was referring to situations where he tells me about exes more in a way to vent, or just keeps bringing her up, and it’s not to tell me something about himself…

    well i had this happen with a guy I was seeing…

    he would just vent to me about what his baby’s mother did to him

    I actually hung up on him and didn’t talk to him for 3 months — after I figured out that it didn’t feel good to me —

    he Still did it later, but I kept saying i don’t feel good and backing away everytime… so he’s mostly stopped

    it was a CONSTANT thing

  50.  #50Siena on October 28, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    “Just Circular Date him. Practice trusting yourself in the moment instead of trying to guess what’s going on, and what’s going to go on several moments from now.”

    Just about everytime I come here, there’s something that I NEED to read. This sentence is it this time. It feels so freeing to read that!

    In the moment, I usually feel good about Mover Man, but more as a CD, and less as an everafter man. He keeps coming on strong, and I feel scared about that. I don’t want to lead him on. And Daria’s voice is in the back of my mind, telling me that the time I spend with him is a gift. Sigh, I wish I felt that in my body so I could REALLY believe it’s true!

    The day before last, I ran into #1CD in the street. First time I’ve seen him in 3 months. My feet and legs went numb, my heart started pounding, and I realized then that I really do love him still! We chatted for only a couple minutes, and were both shocked to see eachother (it was in a totally random place), and then we parted.

    I went to my car and collapsed, cried a little, and felt excited that I FEEL this way about him!

    It feels weird to be in this place. I’ve felt so confused about MM, almost “willing” myself to feel more than I do for him, and starting to believe that what I feel is enough.

    THEN I witnessed how my body reacted when I saw #1CD, and I feel great knowing that I feel love – without even having to pin it on him as the object of my affection (if that makes sense.)

    Now I’m wondering if he’s gonna reach out. I dunno!

    BTW, I literally praised God in the car after seeing him, because I looked gooooooood! I had totally dolled myself up and put on an amazing outfit with some killer heels because I had an appt to get my photo taken. THANK GOD he saw me that day!!!!

  51.  #51Siena on October 28, 2010 at 8:53 pm

    “it’s the emotional connection that matters”

    Yay Daria x100!!! Another thing I needed to hear! Thank you!

    I know it’s us who create that emotional connection, and I’m not doing it (on purpose, methinks) with MM. I don’t feel safe.

  52.  #52Amy F. on October 28, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    So glad you looked like the goddess you are. I love it!

  53.  #53Amy F. on October 28, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    So glad you are going to wait until tomorrow to reply. Men are going to come in and go out. One will stick. This is what I learned from Daria yesterday and I believe it. Don’t count on any one man, just notice what happens and what your patterns are. Not his but yours.

    I am saying the above as much for me as for you. I am connecting to my own feelings about all of this. By talking to you, I am helping myself as well…

  54.  #54Siena on October 28, 2010 at 8:59 pm

    Lol thanks Amy! I truly felt providentially taken care of, because most days I’m – shall we say -“casually” dressed. Hmmm, maybe that’s a message to take better care of how I dress!

  55.  #55Nikita on October 28, 2010 at 8:59 pm


    I haven’t read the post yet; but- well, I live with a man and he calls me his gf- (no sense in fighting about semantics lol) and yet I believe I am going to agree with it. I am honest with myself, I am not married and I love living together but I am not married so who knows what the future holds-(at the risk of not being a coward here 🙂 my li had a gf twice before and he and I couldn’t stay away from one another, sometimes it felt good and sometimes it didn’t -when it didn’t feel good I told him and he ended up single…..
    Why did I feel ok? Because he and I have a lot of history and these girls would “give it” to him soon (weeks) and they became “instant gf’s”- I know my guy and he knows these girls are “fill ins” and will run their course. It is what it is and it’s the type of girl that would drive to his house late at night – throw her yoni at him and he sees this for what it is! A woman being the aggressor and instead of rejecting her advances maybe he decides to just not call and let her lead- it absolves him of responsibility. He does judge women. And “cowboys” get bucked 🙂 lol!!!
    Whatever……point is, I am honest and accept I am NOT the wife but thus serves me for right now. I love him. I feel loved. And I trust myself. He is a caveman but I am purifying (a la Abraham -hicks ) my relating with him, he’s handsome and I trust him with ME. I wouldn’t reccomend him lol!!! But am very pleased and reccomend him for myself.

    Ok, and now I am going to read the post and see if I get triggered-

  56.  #56Daria on October 28, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    Siena – here’s what helps me FEEL I’m a gift in my Body

    I call it “Worshipping The Goddess” tool

    It works like this:

    I am a Goddess. I imagine I live somewhere in nature, say at a sacred rock, by beautiful trees

    people love me! I am their Goddess… they sing songs, do festivals for me, and come to my rock …

    they offer me flowers, and food, and adoration

    why? because I’m their Goddess

    my presence blesses their lives.


    When I’m on the phone wiht a man, I practice this tool

    I imagine I’m the Goddess, in the forest, say of a lake. and I am worshipped by men. This man has come to my sacred place to worship me. His words are his offering.

    When he says something that makes me feel good, he is worshipping me… and That is waht he is attempting to do

    If he says something that doesn’t feel good… then he is not pleasing the Goddess… he is less likely to be blessed by her good favor and happiness… so i gently let him know this is not pleasing to me…

    he will either of course change what he offers me in worship, so that I may be pleased

    or he will leave… perhaps he doesn’t quite understand what his purpose was in coming here, he is confused in his own mind… but he knows he has seen something.. and a part of him will know it’s a Goddess

  57.  #57Daria on October 28, 2010 at 9:01 pm

    meanwhile I, live at my sacred spot… I don’t go after a man.. it’s not in my nature… my nature is to live at my sacred spot and receive worship, that is what blesses the land

  58.  #58Siena on October 28, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    Daria, you’re so poetic, I love it! Thank you!

    The business woman in me thought -while I read your post- “wow, she could make a KILLING if she wrote a book of poetry or short stories or something!” women -and men! – would love it!!

  59.  #59Daria on October 28, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    Siena – to clarify – it’s the emotional connection that matters FOR THE MAN!

    we as women are able to create emotional connection with anyone… and it means NOTHING … a la Rori’s other post

    what means something to us is a MAN stepping up with creating a future together and claiming us

  60.  #60Daria on October 28, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    Siena – I want to do that… maybe you could help me!

  61.  #61Daria on October 28, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    I feel really blessed to hear you say that.

  62.  #62Siena on October 28, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    Wow, Daria, you’re so resonating with me tonight!! Re #58, I’ve never considered it that way, but it’s so true! It’s the reason why I can fall in love with a tree, or a sunset – or a guy who’s no good for me! Because I am love! Duh! (just got that, literally just now)
    Hmmm, makes my encounter with #1CD feel less special, but I still look at the timing as serendipitous (for a number of reasons I’m not sharing here.)

    Of course I will help you if that’s something you desire! Email me! Step 1 is to connect to the desire of your heart, and keep it very close while you go about your days. That is how miracles manifest. xoxo

  63.  #63Daria on October 28, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    Siena – throughotu my life I’ve gone through phases of dressing EXTREMELY casually, to Very dressed up…

    it usually has to do with a habit, and sometimes with man attention I’m receiving

    Recently, though, I’ve been very conscious of Goddess energies… I call in Goddesses into myself and embody them throughout the day

    well… along with this… rather Easily, as in no effort or push from me

    I have started dressing as the Goddess I want to embody that day

    this means…

    I pick my clothes to look like said Goddess.

    This has resulted in me looking AMAZING and VERY UNIQUE – ALL THE TIME — when I go out

    even some things that I normally wouldn’t have worn when “trying” to look sexy

    im not trying to look sexy

    I’m dressing up as a Goddess

    amazing colors, bracelets, everything has a meaning

    and I feel SO… sacred and amazing

    it might not even be a revealing outfit (or it might) – but I feel really comfortable with everything I’m wearing – because it’s blessed!

    If it doesn’t feel good energetically, it’s not going on me

    and my parents, who sometimes criticize, have some times looked stunned… but the criticizims have hushed… because I look like I OWN my presence

    I HIGHLY recommend this

    in fact… it would feel super fun to write a book on dressing like Goddesses!! with different Goddesses and what colors and styles they like, etc to start it off

  64.  #64Daria on October 28, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    Thank you Siena. Keep desire close to my heart…

  65.  #65Daria on October 28, 2010 at 9:16 pm

    I am realizing I want to pick out Goddess attire for inside the house and pijamas too, not just outside

  66.  #66Siena on October 28, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    “in fact… it would feel super fun to write a book on dressing like Goddesses!! with different Goddesses and what colors and styles they like, etc to start it off”

    Great idea! Stay with that for a few days, keep it close to your heart and let your heart inform you whether or not to move forward with it… Or maybe alter it a little, etc.

    You might start by making a firm intention -no matter what – to create a business that uses your gifts and brings you (happiness, joy, abundance, laughter, wealth, health… There are tons to choose from!)

    I’m starting to dress “exquisitely” and in royal colors (purples and royal reds.) I’m in a period of tranformation from hippy casual. I like the attention I receive in this new dress! But like you said, it’s a habit to dress comfortably.

  67.  #67Brenda on October 28, 2010 at 9:21 pm


    RE: #49 – I’m so happy for you that you saw CD#1! Sounds like a holy hook-up to me, the way you were all dolled up! I hope there is another chapter to that story!

  68.  #68Siena on October 28, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    Thank you Bren!

    “holy hookup”!! That’s it! I was trying to remember what you called those! I’ve been going around trying to remember that term! Haha

    I feel strongly that it’s not the last I’ve heard from him. (in fact, I know it.) But, since I can’t do anything about the timing, I’m totally releasing it and detaching. Otherwise, I’d go crazy!!! xoxo

  69.  #69Siena on October 28, 2010 at 9:29 pm

    “holy hookup Batman!”

    Hehe, still laughing 😀

  70.  #70Brenda on October 28, 2010 at 9:30 pm


    LOL! Makes me happy you were trying to think of that term! I learned it from Stan Cotrell, a long distance runner. He is the TRUE originator of the motto, “Just Do It!” I had the privelege of meeting him 7-8 yrs ago. He said when he was taping an ad for Nike, they were going back and forth, etc. Finally in exasperation he said, “People, just do it!”

    They decided to make that their motto, and they never paid him a dime for royalties, etc.

    Anyway, he made a major impact on me! He is more inspirational than Zig Ziglar! He ran across the US twice, and he does international friendship runs to build international peace. He ran across Cuba, the China wall, etc!

  71.  #71Siena on October 28, 2010 at 9:33 pm

    Wow, I’ve never heard of him, but I’ll look it up! I’m always down for an inspirational story! (some people make fun of me for that, but I embrace it)

    Thanks Bren!

  72.  #72Renee on October 28, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    Siena — I bet it felt wonderful to run into that guy looking ab/fab — good for you!

  73.  #73Brenda on October 28, 2010 at 9:47 pm


    I spent several days with him, off and on, when he was the president of a medical device company and I was on a business trip. He signed a copy of his autobiography and gave it to me, and it meant so much to me! He called our meeting a holy hook-up!

    He came from a dirt-poor family in Tennessee and he was emotionally abused. His father told him he would never amount to anything. He ran the long way across TN to prove himself to his father. Then he ran the Boston Marathon WITH pneumonia IN the rain…and he went on from there. He is very successful in every way!

  74.  #74Siena on October 28, 2010 at 9:52 pm

    Yay thanks Renee! It did feel wonderful!

    I thought about it afterwards too, because my old low self esteem came back (it always does) and I realized that if he’s gonna be attracted, he’ll be attracted to my spirit too, not just the clothes and makeup, but the vibe I give off when I feel I’m dressed well.

    I know that guys are totally visual, so I’m not trying to overspiritualuze attraction… But I think that’s what Tinque means when she says that a man will look at your wrinkles and think they’re adorable if he loves you.

  75.  #75Renee on October 28, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    SLV — is a web site based in the UK that talks all about jerks (they call them “assclowns”:), emotionally unavailable men and their various tactics…I guess if you read too much of it, you may become a little unforgiving when men mess up, but I like the fact that they call a spade a spade and help me identify dysfunctional behavior because I can accept some really dum*a$$ excuses when I’m really interested/emotionally invested in a guy…

  76.  #76Nikita on October 28, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    i like this post.

    if he’s in love with her then you won’t connect. if he’s in love he won’t pursue you. I trust Him to take care of His stuff.

  77.  #77Jacqueline on October 28, 2010 at 10:06 pm

    I just want to voice my confusion again and again and again…..why??? is it not the man’s fault for doing what he’s doing. Or not – if he’s stepping up, following his bliss chasing another woman – are we really all so scared of loosing a boyfriend?

    The most amazing thing to me when I bought and reviewed Trudy Styler’s exercise tapes on Amazon was that 28 YEARS ago she “stole” Sting from her best friend. And it’s still like all that you pull up when you google her. And if you watch the video, he looks at her like she is the breath he breathes, and the reason for it!

    So, who would want to stop him from having that? Not his ex btw. If he can’t be happy, cut him loose – if he’s not happy and he wants to be with you and cut her loose — good for her, time to go “Next!”

    Let’s all allow everyone to their bliss – and if we’re gonna blame, blame the man who’s got the girlfriend who is still asking other girls out hmmm?! Not the woman who considers the date.

    For everyone who was so narrow in their Rori interpretations with me and rigid in their assessment of my application of the tools….well, this is RORI – spelled out in black and white. And we still have to agree to disagree, because people have differences of opinion, experiences, beliefs, triggers, events, cultures, etc. etc. And this time, everyone’s not saying oh, it’s the valid way to do it.

    They’re questioning it. So, while we have the girlfriend trigger, I’d like to also have an openess to questioning. For us all!

    Hoping so….


  78.  #78Daria on October 28, 2010 at 10:28 pm

    what does SMH stand for?

  79.  #79Lucy on October 28, 2010 at 11:26 pm

    chrissy- rori is not advocating women “going after” the guy or “moving in on him.” she is talking about the Guy going after a woman. his choice, his initiative. hopefully your guy wouldn’t do that, right?

  80.  #80Lucy on October 28, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    shannon, i feel curious. when gf-guy texts you, are you comfortable responding or not?

  81.  #81mary on October 29, 2010 at 1:54 am

    ooh DARIA,

    i LOVE that idea about dressing up and owning your presence and putting things on that have a meaning!


    thank you!

    and GUESS WHAT ! ??

    my man has this amazing ring that he wears that a friend of his made for him (the friend is a jeweler) and he commissioned his friend to make one for me – exactly like his.

    and… better yet…

    i love it!

    he wanted me to wear it on my wedding ring finger, and i raised my eyebrow, so he said, “just for now…”

    he said “this represents the commitment i want to make to you someday.”

    pretty cool.

    yes. i’m gonna go through my closet right now to look for goddessy clothes to wear with purpose.

    just for fun.

    i have some really pretty bracelets. why not wear them all together? with my charm bracelet?


    thanks for this inspiration!

  82.  #82mary on October 29, 2010 at 1:55 am

    hey, Lucy…

  83.  #83Meemee on October 29, 2010 at 2:29 am

    Hey sirens,
    I have a dumb question- how do we make out if a man is interested in us or if he is being friendly?

  84.  #84Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 4:20 am

    I met with the bankruptcy attorney yesterday. His fee is $3800, and he said it has to be paid in full before he completes the bankruptcy. He projected next spring.

    So I know this isn’t what I’m going to do, but it feels like I have a choice between being homeless for 20 years, to pay back the student loan, or for 6 months, to pay his fee. Inotherwords, it seems like the new bankruptcy laws have made it next to impossible to go bankrupt.

    I want to go far, far away.

  85.  #85Meemee on October 29, 2010 at 4:24 am

    There is this guy in my office who offers me chocolates every now and then, comes to my room 5 times a day and talks to me, waits for me to walk back home after office, asks me to join him for office lunch, pings me online every night to say good night and so on. I am not sure if these are gestures of friendliness or if he is interested. How do I know?!
    Or is there a need to know at all?

  86.  #86RTCathy on October 29, 2010 at 4:56 am

    Thank you so much SLV for your comments
    “Hmmm, then in that situation I wouldn’t be “going over” for about two months or until I felt entirely comfortable. I definately I think you are right, this is the first time i have gone to see him, as its a long way, he has been coming to me, time to set the balance back to his side.

    Honey – thank you so much for you comments

    “Ooooo…I feel triggered. Probably because it is easy for me to fall for a trap like the one he is setting. It is so much easier to talk boundaries when it is SOMEONE ELSES situation and not mine!
    Once I’m getting hooked on someone, please Sirens, talk me down!”

    Thank you for talking me down! I really needed that, he rang earlier and I was back to my normal sireny self and he says that he understands and that he is bessotted and that he will give me the time I need!

    I so value being able to vent here when I am in my crisis!

  87.  #87Susan on October 29, 2010 at 5:17 am

    Wow..why r u all making this sooo hard.. relax. Mad because he didn’t call back in 30 mins. wow again. slow down. He has a life too. Have you never gotten caught up in something? Just be thankful he was considered enought to get in touch after all.
    If I connect with Rori like I think she wants us to .. She is saying, do what is best for you, not him. However, he is human too.. so be mindful of his feelings as well. Not fair that he has to, but you don’t. Life it way to short to stress over things you have not control. Control your thoughts and be happy with you first! remember no one can make you feel anyway.. only you can.. I learned this the hard way, Good luck to everyone.. sorry if I upset the apple cart, but it just feels like wineing sometimes. LOL

  88.  #88RTCathy on October 29, 2010 at 5:21 am

    Siena – so good to hear you looked so fab when you met that guy.

    “But, since I can’t do anything about the timing, I’m totally releasing it and detaching. Otherwise, I’d go crazy!!!”
    your comment knocked my socks off – I so want to be strong enough to do that in certain situations, I admire you for taking what you did out of that situation and making the very best of it and for feeling the love and embracing it in the moment you saw him.

  89.  #89Renee on October 29, 2010 at 5:22 am

    MeeMee — Sure sounds like this guy is interested to me…he may be a tad shy or feminine energy, though, if he’s not taking the initiative to ask you out, or perhaps he’s waiting for some encouragement from you…do you like him at all? It seems like you said previously that you didn’t really feel attracted to him. Of course, you may find that as you continue to heal from X and you spend more time with this guy, your attraction to him may grow.

    I’m a little wary of the “attraction growing” thing at this point, though, because one of the articles I read on BaggageReclaim indicated one of the hallmarks of a Mr. Unavailable is that he will continue to aggressively pursue someone who doesn’t appear to be that interested in him, whereas most “normal” guys will want to see some reciprocation or they won’t continue to pursue…that’s given me a lot to think about. Like the idea that my gut may have been telling me to stay away from Blondie in the first place, which may have been why my initial interest in him was so lukewarm. And it does make sense that a guy w/a “healthy” ego would only continue to pursue a woman if she indicated a similar level of interest in him. But who knows? Maybe one of the lessons I was supposed to learn is that attraction can grow…maybe not. Trying to keep my heart open to whatever happens and give up trying to control the outcome…not easy for me, but a worthwhile pursuit…

    Anyway — back to you. Is there something in particular you object to w/this guy or is it just his general energy you don’t care for?

  90.  #90Siena on October 29, 2010 at 5:23 am

    Brenda, I’m sending you love! It can feel really scary to be in a place where there are lots of bills, and no income in sight to pay them, I know! I’ve been there too!

    The truth is that – as with all feminine things that we learn here – money is something that we can receive as feminine creatures simply by allowing it to come in. It’s an abundant, renewable resource.

    Put another way, God is in control of all money. What father would give his son (or daughter) a stone when he asks for a fish? Consider the lilies of the field…

    Have you had a convo with God and reverently “demanded” that He show you a way out of this financial mess? It might go something like, “Dear God, I am your faithful daughter, and I am unwilling to live in poverty. I feel scared and overwhelmed by the doom and gloom I see in my financial house. I’m turning to the God of abundance, and asking (and reverently demanding!) that you flow financial abundance into my life.”

    And then you have to allow it to come in, which can actually be very difficult. We all have preconceived notions about money and its lack, etc.

    I’m not trying to make light of your situation at all, and I’m not advocating that you sit back and do nothing. I AM advocating a mental shift while you hit the pavement, send out resumes, etc.

    Most of all, those two choices that you offer suck. I propose a third one which is something like, all of a sudden – seemingly out of nowhere – more money than you’ve ever seen begins to flow into your life. And after you pay your debt, you have plenty to live off and to give to others. You feel totally supported and comfortable in your finances, and you can serve others because you are filled to overflowing yourself. How does that sound? xoxo

  91.  #91RTCathy on October 29, 2010 at 5:24 am

    meemee – this is just my take on it but I feel a guy who invests his time in you in that way is very interested.

    How could he not be??

  92.  #92Siena on October 29, 2010 at 5:35 am

    Re #86 RtCathy, thank you! I feel embarrassed by your compliment (if I’m honest) but I receive it gratefully anyway – thank you! I’m not all that strong in my femininity, but being here has made me much better than I used to be. xoxo

  93.  #93Honey on October 29, 2010 at 5:51 am

    Siena and Daria –

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. Daria, I don’t know if when you write, you consider yourself to be writing poetry, but that’s how it comes across. When I first got on this site, I wondered if you were a poet, or if you wrote for a living. At first, I also wondered if you were pasting in a poem you read somewhere. But soon saw that you were talking about your own situation and just figured you were a poet or writer.

    I’m not in that field, so I don’t know anything about publishing or if there is a market for this type of thing, but I do love reading what you write and how it is written. So many on this site have been blessed by what you have written. It touches us inside…when the personal expression touches the universal, that’s art!

  94.  #94Honey on October 29, 2010 at 6:15 am

    OMG! I have a lunch date with Mr. Richie and my face broke out from sneaking too much Halloween candy! Have a big zit in the middle of my cheek. Crap. Goddesses should get zits…but then they shouldn’t eat candy either. lol

    Hopefully he’ll be too distracted by my large breasts to notice my large zit. Oooops, I mean, hopefully he’ll be too distracted by my goddess energy to notice the zit.

  95.  #95Honey on October 29, 2010 at 6:15 am

    I am on this blog too much if I’ve sunk to the point of writing about my zits…lol

  96.  #96Meemee on October 29, 2010 at 6:26 am

    Renee and RTcathy
    I am not really attracted to this guy,but he perplexes me a lot with this bahviour. At times I feel he is making excuses to talk to me. Yesterday he spent almost 3 hours talking to me and just being around. There are a few thingss I noticed

    1. He does not ask me much about myself. when he is away he sends texts asking how did the sppointment with my doctor go and how I am feeling etc. But when he is physically around he just talks about many random things- mostly about him and his interests.

    2. I feel he is taking me for granted. I am not sure if I am being obsessive about my boundaries. For exapmle he is moving to his new house this weekend. He invited me home sometime next week. He was talking about buying things for his new house. When I mentioned moving to a new house and setting it can be a real pain he asked “Why don’t you go and buy the things for me?”
    I clearly did not like it.

    3. This morning he was talking to me about how his bosses keep yelling at him. And I referred to a corporate joke and said that is what happens when you are the lower end of the power hierarchy and the only way to get over it is to find someone to yell at. He looked at me with a broad smile and said “Then I will yell at you”. WTF. I felt angry and I dismissed his comment saying “I think you are getting the dynamics of co-working wrong”.

    4. He is slightly pompous and shows off his knowledge every now and then.

    5. At time I feel he is expecting a little too much from me. When I told him I do elaborate cooking only on weekends he asked “Why don’t you bring some food for me?”. Really? I mean I know him only a month!!!!

    6. Most of all, his facebook profile says he has a girlfriend of whom he never talked to me about.

    I am growing skeptical and I feel uneasy about his constant coming to my room. But I do not want to offend a colleague if he is merely trying to be friends with me.

    Show me some light please.


  97.  #97Lucy on October 29, 2010 at 6:31 am

    Hi Mary. Thanks for the shout-out… I feel seen. 🙂

  98.  #98Senior Lady Vibe on October 29, 2010 at 6:33 am

    @74: Renee says:

    “SLV — is a web site based in the UK that talks all about jerks (they call them “assclowns”:), emotionally unavailable men and their various tactics…”

    Thanks, Renee. I’ll check it out. It’s helpful to learn signals and red flags I don’t know.


  99.  #99Lucy on October 29, 2010 at 6:40 am

    I realized this morning that I would not want a man to come to my house because it is too messy.

    I keep trying to get all of my house not messy at the same time, but as soon as I finish one room, another room has gotten messy again.

    I wonder if something deeper is going on here.

    Does this mean that an unconscious part of me really doesn’t want a man?

    If I really wanted a man, wouldn’t I find a way to make sure my house is ready for his visit?

    When the house is ready, the man appears…. (?)

    Any thoughts, Sirens?

  100.  #100Honey on October 29, 2010 at 6:48 am

    Meemee –

    This guy is even starting to bug ME.

    Have you tried using feeling statements for comments like, “Then I will yell at you.” Like, “Ouch, I feel really put down. That feels bad to me.”

    He sounds like one of Renee’s “assclowns”!

    “Why don’t you bring some food for me?”. Oh, puh-leeeeze. “Oh, I don’t know. Because your GIRLFRIEND wouldn’t like it and you are disrespecting both of us by suggesting that. Besides, why don’t YOU bring some food for ME?” OK, so I wouldn’t really say that, but this guy sooooo triggers me. He is not worthy to worship at the goddess temple.

    He totally sounds interested but I get a “player” vibe from him.

    That’s what it sounds like to me, but I wasn’t there. What do you think?

  101.  #101Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 7:19 am


    RE: #88 – Yes, I am totally with you, and as I am steadily reading “The Power”, I HAVE been praying like that.

    I feel honestly confused. I wonder if going on disability, just for a season, is God’s way of saying, “Daughter, I have heard you. I know you feel a need for rest, leaning back, and receiving. Here is the way….” I wonder if following the attorney’s advice and going on disability for a time would be a way I could get rid of this horrible debt that’s been plaguing me since 1994! It’s been a noose around my neck! I can’t get my college transcript or return to the same college as long as that student loan is outstanding.

    Instead of paying it off, over the years, I’ve gone deeper and deeper into debt with my excessive sleepiness issues, falling asleep anywhere with no control, and depression, when there are times I am unable to concentrate or track mentally.

    I am at a serious crossroads. You don’t know how badly I want to start my business! Yet when I can’t even find time to apply for small business loans and grants, because my every day life is so messed up, how can I possibly find time to sort my spider web of jumbled, unopened mail, which fill boxes and boxes, in order to apply for disability, bankruptcy, taxes for the last 6 years, and all the rest?

    My life is completely out of order. I am coming apart at the seams, and I feel often like I am coming unglued.

    That’s my story, and I haven’t fully come to terms yet about positive confessions. I do make them, but that is my present reality. I prayed your prayer, and I believe all you say. But that doesn’t change the fact that my papers, household, emotions, and debt are all haywire.

    Lord, I believe. Please help my unbelief.

  102.  #102Honey on October 29, 2010 at 7:19 am

    Lucy –

    My house is always a mess. I used to be obsessive about it when my kids were young, but now it is what it is. And yes, I would be embarrassed to have a guy see it this way. When men have come over, I clean it up the best I can but I can’t do everything. Between my part time job, raising special needs kids, and taking MORE post grad courses (I thought I was done after my Master’s,, but no), and CDing there’s just no time to keep it the way I want it. I don’t know if you are pressed for time. If you are not, it could be that you subconciously do not want a man over. But maybe it’s just a priority thing.

    I DO need to clean up my house some, though. It is stressing me out. This morning I said to my son, “It looks like someone threw the Holy Handgrenade of Antioch in here.” His response, “They did.” I want my Goddess Temple to feel peaceful. Just so hard to make time for everything. The common rooms get cleaned first and my room is always the last thing on my list…maybe I should make it first so I can start and end the day in peace. I think my priority order shows that I value others above myself. Yet, as a mother, this feels right to me. I wonder how other moms deal with this,,,

  103.  #103Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 7:24 am


    More…My out-of-order life is a full time job, and I could spend a couple weeks, working 40 hours a week, and MAYBE have my life back in order. Working full time, I NEVER have that kind of time.

    Yesterday I took off without pay to both see my attorney and to work on my messy house with a social work intern from my counseling center. We worked for 4 hours and got a lot done, yet even still, the sofa is piled high with boxes and clutter to be sorted and put away. Outside my door is piled high with laundry, trash, and donation items. I haven’t touched the cleaning and organizing of my office, clothing, or kitchen. It looks a lot better, but it just scratched the surface. I feel overwhelmed. I feel incapable of managing an adult life. My world is internal: emotions, spirit, relationships, God…I don’t enjoy being a part of the physical realm. Yet I have to in order to survive. I feel embarrassed with all this. Please excuse me if any of it is repeat.

  104.  #104Senior Lady Vibe on October 29, 2010 at 7:27 am

    @94: Meemee says:

    “…Yesterday he spent almost 3 hours talking to me and just being around…”

    This means that you spent almost 3 hours listening to and spending time with this guy. Why? You get to decide how you spend your time…!

    Don’t wait on him to end the visit. When you’ve had enough of him, you end the visit! — After 3 minutes, 5 minutes, whatever “I’ve enjoyed the chat; now I have to get back to work…I have to go…” etc

    You might get some other siren kind of answers from the women who are in romantic relationships and CD. I only have some guy pals who joke with me sometimes and I give it right back to them!!! tee hee 😆 So much has to do with your attitude and they way you respond. As in “I’m the confident goddess…and I knowwwww you must be joking. ” 😆

    “…He looked at me with a broad smile and said “Then I will yell at you”. WTF. I felt angry and I dismissed his comment saying “I think you are getting the dynamics of co-working wrong”….”

    — That wouldn’t help you, I’d yell back.

    …“Why don’t you bring some food for me?”. Really? I mean I know him only a month!!!!…

    — I don’t “bring food.” Men take me to dinner.
    — I only bring food on first day home from hospital, are you planning to get hit by a car anytime soon?

    Meemee, is the boy joking or clueless??? — I don’t know, I’m not there. I’d take it as silly jokes but if you decide they are not, or you simply are bored or annoyed…

    –I don’t like the jokes.

    or you can do a “dump his ass” by vigorously avoiding him and you know how to do that now!

    I am growing skeptical and I feel uneasy about his constant coming to my room.

    It’s your room you don’t have to put up with a bore or a boor.

    But I do not want to offend a colleague if he is merely trying to be friends with me.

    It’s not any better that you be offended or bored, is it? Don’t encourage him if that’s the case.

    I think Rori says date until uncomfortable, correct me if I am wrong, but this guy isn’t asking you out…or is he?


  105.  #105Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 7:27 am


    I can only speak for myself. I think my messiness has NOTHING to do with not wanting a man. It has to do with “inspiration without expression equals depression”. It has to do with working full time. It has to do with emotional issues that often take me hours a day to feel “normal”. I go out, I write here on the blog, I talk and text to friends. Those things tend to take priority over housework, because I am not coping well these days.

    I don’t like to be negative. I like to come on here and be encouraging. But I am getting slapped in the face by reality. Here I am! Ya caught me with my pants down! Ugh!

  106.  #106Renie on October 29, 2010 at 7:32 am

    Good Morning Sirens!

    Something interesting happened to me yesterday and I’m wondering if or how I can use it to draw the man I’m seeing (the Pilot)most regularly closer to me.

    Yesterday I got a call out of the blue from a guy I went out with twice back in the summer. It was only twice, but both times were long weekends together and we had spent hours & hours on the phone. Anyway, things didn’t end on a good note so I just let it go. So, he called me and apologized for being a jackass to me, said I didn’t deserve it, and he was “in a really bad place” at the time, etc. Then he asked if I wanted to go with him for a 5 night stay at a 5 star resort in Punta Canna, Mexico in a couple of weeks! I can’t go for a variety of reasons (work, my kids, etc.), plus I’m seeing the Pilot pretty regularly now. I’m wondering if I should bring this up with the Pilot, or not mention it? In a way I want to tell him because I think it might boost my “degree of difficulty”….because if I get offers from men for an all-expenses paid week in Mexico, I must be pretty darn special! But I don’t want to do it just to make him jealous or play games. If I told him, I would say something like “the most interesting thing happened….I got a call from a guy who I haven’t seen since this summer asking me to go to Mexico with him”. If I was able to go on the trip, I would seriously consider it. But I’m not, so it’s sort of a mute point. It still made me feel good, though! What do you think? Tell Pilot or not?


  107.  #107Honey on October 29, 2010 at 7:34 am

    Brenda –

    I feel for you. If you can get out from under your burden by declaring bankruptcy and going on disability, DO IT! I know this is hard and very humbling. I’d like to share a story with you…

    There was a lady at my church. She was very mildly on the autistic spectrum, so mild that no one would ever know. But SHE knew and had to deal with it. Two of her kids were on the spectrum as well, but very high functioning, and the third had ADD. Her ex-husband was bipolar and on drugs. She was living with her parents and trying to go to nursing school, but they were struggling horribly financially because her parents’ business was doing poorly. She was depressed and constantly had that deer in the headlights look. Finally, a girlfriend and I sat her down and encouraged her to apply for welfare. This is very difficult to do, because, like applying for disability, they treat you like a low life. Also, she said she didn’t qualify cuz her parents were helping her. We told her to put down that she was paying rent so that she would qualify. We told her that she needed to do this to get through nursing school, because she was barely making it and studying her butt off. We told her that this is what these programs are there for, and that she didn’t need to feel guilty because, once she finished nursing school, she’d be making good money and would be paying INTO the system for the rest of her working life.

    So…she did it. It was hard, and she did feel embarrassed, but she did it. She got on welfare, finished school, got a great job, and was able to support her 3 kids on her own. Her parents business, however, did more poorly, and she is now in a position to help them financially as well as paying into the system.

    Brenda, if disability will help you..,.DO IT! It is not easy to get. They will most likely deny you the first time unless you have a really strong letter from your doctor (like I got for my ex-H). You need this to get on your feet…then you will be in the position to pay into the system and help someone else.

    If the opportunity is there, please take it. We all need help sometimes, and this is God’s provision for you. You can do this!

  108.  #108Honey on October 29, 2010 at 7:40 am

    Brenda –

    Sorry if I came on too strong like I was telling you what to do. I just hear those negative voices in your head telling you that you don’t deserve this help, and you do. I’m too bossy sometimes…I need to remember that only you know what’s right for you.

    I still like my story though. I was proud of that lady…she worked hard to get on her feet. She barely made it through nursing school. The first classes are so hard and weed people out. Once of her professors at the beginning told her, “You are barely making it, and normally I would tell you to drop out of the program. But I know you want this bad so I’m going to help you.” And she made it!

  109.  #109Honey on October 29, 2010 at 7:41 am

    OK Sirens –

    Have to start my day. Lot’s to do and I have that date with Mr. Richie…have to get my goddess on!


  110.  #110Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 7:41 am


    Hey, that’s wonderful! He’s the same man you originally wrote about that’s long distance, who lost his phone in the water, right? Wow! I wish you could go!

    I don’t know about telling pilot…not qualified to answer that.

  111.  #111Lorelei on October 29, 2010 at 7:42 am

    Brenda, Honey – I have struggled with things getting a bit out of control on the home front. And it stresses me, and I waste time trying to find things etc.

    I have found Flylady really helpful on this one. I don’t go along with everything, but the basic principles of starting with babysteps, agetting some little routines established that prevent feeling stressed rather than cause stress feelings works for me!

    It’s feels Siren-y too, to be more of a lean, mean connection machine (Rori quote), than someone who can’t find the thing she wants to wear on a date! Don’t get me wrong, I still have LOTS of progress to make on this as well. But I just feel better, clearer, more focussed etc, when home is fairly clean and tidy.

  112.  #112Hadassah on October 29, 2010 at 7:42 am

    @#83 Brenda-
    It sure sounds like he wants to do a chapter 7… I know for my chapter 13, it was $500 and then you make payments for the next 3-5 years to the trustee in the amount of “no less than $100 per month”. The other sucky thing is you have to turn over any income tax refund over $2,000.

    After giving them my $500 last year, paying the $100 per month for the year, etc. it got to a point where my mom charged the rest of the fee so I could get it converted to a chapter 7. There was an additional fee to convert it, but either way it ended up costing me around $3800 INCLUDING the $750 conversion fee.

    I would suggest shopping around for attorneys and seeing how much they charge to get you started on a chapter 13; as soon as they have their initial fee, your wages can not be garnished, home can not be foreclosed on, etc.

    And you are right – you have to have money to file for bankruptcy. It’s ridiculous. If you were a cash rich person or some business, you could file for bankruptcy like that, no problems. But because you really NEED the help, it’s a pain.

  113.  #113Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 7:48 am


    Thank you!! That is a beautiful story! Wow! It’s not that I feel undeserving. It’s that I’ve been wanting to move ahead with my P.O.P. for so many years. I feel like I am on the edge of being able to.

    Yet, like the attorney said, I will be in a better position to be a contributing citizen, as I worded it to him, after I move this roadblock out of my way.

    I was about to try for a small business loan and/or grants, and get another job to keep me going until I got my business up and running. I could still try for that. But adding $400 to my already-too-far-stretched budget? I don’t see how, at present.

    An idea my friend, Chris, had, is to talk directly to the student loan people, explaing the excessive sleepiness and depression, asking them if they would work with me and give me a smaller payment. I want to have all my ducks in a row before I make a call like that. I need to explore more ins and outs. Right now, the attorney is buying me time. They are legally not allowed to garnish when I am in process of bankruptcy.

    I have neglected this part of my life way too long, out of emotional pain and feeling incapable of coping with this tuff stuff.

  114.  #114Senior Lady Vibe on October 29, 2010 at 7:53 am

    @101: Brenda says:

    “…We worked for 4 hours and got a lot done…”

    Hi Brenda, I hope you are giving yourself high credit. This is a big achievement, especially when you are getting started. I think big household jobs of moving, redecorating and/or organizing often look worse when you first start.

    Keep at it, you’ll get there.

    See if you can get a girlfriend to come over for a few hours and help you out. My DDIL and her girlfriends all do this for each other. All the time!

    I like to see them do it. I help out sometimes. It’s amazing how fast the closet or refrigerator/cupboards, kid’s rooms get sorted out. The girlfriend mostly says stuff like: “Girl, you don’t need that. Toss that. Oh, that’s cute, keep it. Don’t want it? I’ll take it.” The girlfriends also help each other clean.

    If things have gotten a little dirtier, when you know someone’s coming to help you organize, you will suddenly get the energy and motivation to spend an hour or so doing the “cleaning part.” 😆 That’s usually when I help out.

    It’s sort of like what happens before the cleaning lady comes and you don’t want house to be “that dirty.”

    Ah, the sisterhood…


  115.  #115Honey on October 29, 2010 at 7:55 am

    Brenda –

    I’m thinking that, if you go on disability, the student loan people with HAVE to work with you. A suggestion: You can call them and just tell them that you are disabled and applying for disability. You can ask them what the protocol is for paying back your loan under those circumstances. I’m sure you are not the first person to go through a situation like this.

  116.  #116Honey on October 29, 2010 at 7:58 am

    Brenda –

    What is your P.O.P.?

  117.  #117Honey on October 29, 2010 at 8:01 am

    Sisterhood ROCKS!!!

  118.  #118Lucy on October 29, 2010 at 8:02 am

    Brenda, I agree with Honey. If you apply for SSI in person, a caseworker will help you with the application and help you get all the info you need for it. It’s worth a try.

  119.  #119Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 8:02 am


    RE: #94 – We are tracking a lot of men for a lot of women here. Are you talking about X or chocolate man? I assume chocolate man.

    His behavior sounds yucky to me. If I were you, I’d definitely give some heavy duty feeling messages. For example, if he made that comment to me about bringing in food for him, I’d say something like:

    “Ooh, that feels bad. I don’t want to be a servant to a man. It would feel good to be wined and dined. What do you think?”

    Or, if you don’t want to go out with him, which I wouldn’t, I’d just leave out that sentence about being wined and dined. Just tell him how you honestly feel at every juncture. He will begin to see you are not about being his personal slave or push-over.

  120.  #120Lucy on October 29, 2010 at 8:06 am

    Renie, that’s really cool that summer guy invited you on an amazing trip! However, it sounds like your reasons for wanting to tell Pilot basically fit into the manipulation/agenda/games/over-functioning/chasing/needy category. What do you think?


  121.  #121Honey on October 29, 2010 at 8:06 am

    Brenda –

    There should be some advocacy websites to help you know what to do.

  122.  #122Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 8:08 am


    RE: #114 – Not sure if you are asking what it means or what mine is. Guess I’ll answer both…

    My Purpose On the Planet is to serve God and people and help people find inner healing: spiritually, emotionally, and mentally.

  123.  #123Lucy on October 29, 2010 at 8:11 am

    Renie – How about instead of telling Pilot, you allow the trip invitation to be a wonderful reminder to yourself about how desirable and worthy you are, and allow yourself to feel really good about that — and THAT will enhance your magnetism with Pilot.

  124.  #124Meemee on October 29, 2010 at 8:12 am

    I feel for you. I am not in any position to give you any suggestion but I truly truly admire the way you are holding youself in the middle of all this. All I can do is t pray for you and you will be in my prayers. A big warm hug for you, strong lady.
    Yes, I am talking about the chocolate man. LOL. Heavy duty feeling message- Iiked it. Yes I agree. I am used to being disgustingly nice and nice. But I am improving on the bitchy bit.

  125.  #125Senior Lady Vibe on October 29, 2010 at 8:19 am

    @104: Renie says:

    I’m not qualified either to tell you what to do. What I’d do is surely not tell another guy about the invitation. It seems teasing and if described as it was here, the offer doesn’t seem very attractive either. But I also wouldn’t go on such a trip. No thank you.

    This is just the way I’d do it for myself your mileage may vary…

    I believe if a former lover wanted to see me, make amends, whatever, I would not want to do it under the stress of 5 days in each other’s presence.

    I’d also be wondering who turned down the vacation plans in the first place. And on such a vacation there is a good chance I’d find out in not such a nice way.

    This is probably not like a siren would do… But, under the circumstances you described, I would believe the trip was originally planned for someone else and I would prefer to pass on it believing if guy truly wants to resume being with me it can go at a slower pace. I wouldn’t need a vacation trip that badly…


  126.  #126Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 8:22 am


    You said, “I am used to being disgustingly nice and nice. But I am improving on the bitchy bit.”

    LOLOLOL! Me too! Daria can attest to that! (I love you, Daria!)

  127.  #127Lucy on October 29, 2010 at 8:23 am

    Brenda — this really stood out to me:

    “I don’t enjoy being a part of the physical realm. Yet I have to in order to survive.”

    I actually feel a lil excited about this because it feels like it could be a breakthrough point for you — God created us with physical bodies in a physical world –our spiritual selves are connected with our physical selves — resisting the physical will block the spiritual … I don’t know quite how to express what I’m sensing here, Brenda, but it seems like an invitation for you to embrace and love the physical realm, as part of yourself.

    Ack. I don’t want to sound preachy or anything. I don’t know. I just think there’s some treasure for you somewhere in there about embracing and loving the physical.

    Daria comes to mind — she seems to have a keen awareness of the physical-spiritual connection. Daria, what do you think?

    Love you, Brenda! <3

  128.  #128Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 8:24 am

    I can’t tell you just how much I appreciate everyone’s support. Yes, this is feeling like a sisterhood! I wish I could meet you all!

  129.  #129Sweetpea on October 29, 2010 at 8:24 am

    Sorry Ladies,

    I have to agree with Rori on this one. I’ve not read through all the posts, but I think Daria makes a valid point. If I’m into my feelings and CDing a guy with a girlfriend, it’s going to start feeling bad to me long before there’s a physical connection. And a guy who is looking for something on the side, isn’t going to put in the time and effort to “claim me.”

    IMHO a guy who’s looking to cheat is looking for a quick, physical connection. He’s not going to be into me for long if that’s all he wants, and he’ll drift away.

    The funny thing is, I’ve had guys cheat on me in the past, but the more open & comfortable I get with this idea of it being ok to CD a guy with a girlfriend, the less anxious I feel that any man I’m involved with would ever DREAM of cheating on me. Weird. That feels really good to KNOW to the depths of my soul. Nope. If he’s smart enough (and lucky enough) to win me, he’s not gonna have eyes for anyone BUT me.

    Woohoo! I opened my mind and my heart and got peace and satisfaction out of it. Thanks Rori!!!!!

    Now…back to catch up on the rest of the posts.

  130.  #130Meemee on October 29, 2010 at 8:25 am

    Thanks. I am gonna take a print out of your reply and paste it on my wall.
    My time is my time- I get to decide how to use it. WOW…….
    I have no idea if he is joking or if he is clueless. But he is repeatedly making such comments. One thing that strikes me just now is that if he is making such comments at me, that means he thinks such comments can be made at me. That means I have to give him the signal that I can not be talked to like this. Oh yes, it is pretty much about what I let others do and talk to me. 🙂


  131.  #131Honey on October 29, 2010 at 8:29 am

    SLV –

    I love your posts and I loved your “milage may vary” lol

  132.  #132Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 8:30 am


    I totally agree. I have been aware of this for some time. I believe the physical realm is PART of the spiritual realm. Like if you drew a circle that symbolized the spiritual realm, the physical realm would be represented by a circle drawn inside the spiritual circle. Even tho I am aware of it and want to improve, I hide inside myself. I feel scared of the physical realm, in terms of harsh people, overweight, the discomfort of exercise at my size, eating properly to lose weight. I feel more comfortable in my internal world of spirit and heart and soul. I am working on it in baby steps. I am starting to get in shape, after having little muscle tone or stamina at the beginning of the summer from my injury. Baby steps.

  133.  #133Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 8:32 am


    RE: #127 – No apology necessary! You rockin, cupcake!

  134.  #134RTCathy on October 29, 2010 at 8:33 am

    Oh I can so relate to the messy house thing, I have a dilema cos if I dont want to go into BMW man’s lair again for a while then he has to come to my home to pick me up, and I am running around like a blue ar*sed fly at the moment trying to make it look ok.

    Thanks for the flylady link Lorelei, that looks a really good site.

    Brenda, I am sending hugs for all the things you are going through at the moment, I always love reading your posts and learn a lot from you, so from my point of view you are fulfilling your POP!

  135.  #135Senior Lady Vibe on October 29, 2010 at 8:43 am

    @111 Brenda

    An idea my friend, Chris, had, is to talk directly to the student loan people, explaing the excessive sleepiness and depression, asking them if they would work with me and give me a smaller

    Do you know who your “student loan people” are? These loans are usually sold by the original lenders. If it is now owned by DOE, the regulations are that you are entitled to rehab your defaulted loan with payments based on your income. They do not care about physical condition unless it has already affected your income.

    Defaulted loans are usually handled by collection agencies and these people are often difficult to deal with…but you are entitled to “rehab” your loan and make an income contingent repayment plan. Of course it’s much easier for them to garnish your pay and they’d perhaps get a bigger fee that way. Did your lawyer discuss this at all with you? The bankruptcy is another issue.

    Your rights will be stated in the letter or packet you receive about the garnishment. I dont know your specific circumstances but there used to be an ombudsman’s office at DOE that you could contact. I don’t know how effective it might be, sometimes these things look good on paper but you know….it’s ‘the gubmint’ in action… sometimes it’s the luck of the draw and the kind of person you get to speak with.

    Keep working it, Brenda. I know it’s a drag and a big emotion and time suck. I have a similar situation. I had to put it over in another pocket of my mind. I’m over here…it’s over there. It sneaks out from time to time.


  136.  #136Simply Shannon on October 29, 2010 at 8:47 am

    Sweetpea: #127! Yes! I feel the same way. I’ve been cheated on in the past and what you said is exactly how I feel. Thank you for voicing that!! I really don’t feel afraid of “cheating” anymore. That feels really odd to say but it’s not on my worry list anymore, and it used to be my #1.

  137.  #137Honey on October 29, 2010 at 8:57 am

    Another Holy Hookup –

    Mr. Richie texted and said he was so sorry…he totally forgot he had a dental appointment and can’t make lunch BUT wondered if I could do dinner, and he would happily come to MY AREA. Of course, I was very understanding and said dinner would be lovely.

    So, ladies, no meeting part way for me. In the end he comes to me. He did not even SUGGEST that we meet half way like I originally agreed to but later felt uncomfortable with. I feel like such a goddess! I have arrived. Feel free to worship, Mr. Richie…lol

  138.  #138Renee on October 29, 2010 at 9:03 am

    Brenda — I think you may have Renie and I confused — I was the one who was dating a guy back in the summer who dropped his phone in the lake. That was actually the mini-relationship that brought me to Rori and this site…

    In looking over the past 4 months, I wonder how much, if any, I’ve “sirenized” myself…I think I’m better about leaning back and not getting as worked up if a guy emails me a time or two and then flakes out. But based on my recent experience w/Blondie, I still have boundary issues, self-esteem issues and a major fear of abandonment.

    I’m definitely more aware of my feelings now than I was, but I only have brief moments here and there where I feel “sireny”, or like a B.I.T.C.H. (babe in total control of herself, lol). I struggle with some of the same issues MeeMee does, though she’s much younger. Sigh. Well, self-awareness is a great first step!

  139.  #139Nikita on October 29, 2010 at 9:11 am


    Congratulations 🙂 !!!!!!!!! 🙂

  140.  #140Honey on October 29, 2010 at 9:14 am

    Oh Daria –

    Thank you for letting me cut and paste your feelings statements…they work great!

  141.  #141Nikita on October 29, 2010 at 9:17 am

    Siena wrote:

    “The funny thing is, I’ve had guys cheat on me in the past, but the more open & comfortable I get with this idea of it being ok to CD a guy with a girlfriend, the less anxious I feel that any man I’m involved with would ever DREAM of cheating on me. Weird. That feels really good to KNOW to the depths of my soul. Nope. If he’s smart enough (and lucky enough) to win me, he’s not gonna have eyes for anyone BUT me.”

    I am in the back saying, yup yup yup…that’s how I feel….and IF that isn’t 100% proven….. I feel really secure anyway…because that is sooooo HIS STUFF – and I trust my feelings….. and I believe I would start to feel really bad and get out anyway.

    I feel as though I have been restored to the girl I was (almost) before I had that super weird toxic-feeling relationship….. and it feels so much more peaceful.

  142.  #142Honey on October 29, 2010 at 9:19 am

    To All The Feelings-Statements Divas –

    I hope you know how helpful you sample statements are to those of us who are just learning. Thank you, thank you, thank you. It’s one thing to TALK ABOUT feelings statements, and it’s another to actually come up with them in regards to different situations. The examples help so much! Again, THANKS!

  143.  #143Senior Lady Vibe on October 29, 2010 at 9:20 am

    @135 Honey

    Fab! Everybody happy, win-win. Genuflecting now… 😆


  144.  #144BarbinOz on October 29, 2010 at 9:21 am

    #9 RT Cathy

    3 weeks = 21 DAYS

    YOU are the prize, not him, its what feels good for YOU the Siren/Goddess/Diva………….

  145.  #145Honey on October 29, 2010 at 9:23 am

    I’ve only had one guy cheat, and that’s because I made a stupid choice and slept with him too soon. I dont’ think he actually cheated physically, but I did see him posted back on match and just had a “feeling” so I checked. Of course, I dumped his sorry ass. A month later, he wrote and said,”I’m sorry I wasn’t what you wanted.” I didn’t even honor him with a response. WTH! Ya think? What self-respecting woman would want a cheater. OMG! Sail on Sailor…

  146.  #146Honey on October 29, 2010 at 9:24 am

    But I never even THINK about a guy cheating usually. Just not the jealous type. I am a prize…it’s his loss…oh I am so full of myself today!

  147.  #147Honey on October 29, 2010 at 9:25 am

    All the guys who cheat can go F___ themselves, literally and figuratively.

  148.  #148Honey on October 29, 2010 at 9:26 am

    I used to be such a nice person. I’m channeling my inner B___ today!

  149.  #149Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 9:28 am


    RE: #132 – You said, “Brenda, I am sending hugs for all the things you are going through at the moment, I always love reading your posts and learn a lot from you, so from my point of view you are fulfilling your POP!”

    Thank you so much! That really means a lot!

  150.  #150janjune on October 29, 2010 at 9:34 am

    i agree with shannon #35 about
    daria’s posts #24 and 25

    i felt the same way

    amazement happiness
    like wow daria!
    you are so steady and strong in the program that you don’t even get thrown by these excellent points other goddesses are making.

    excellent points that are rational and reasonable…. if we were dealing with one another, other women, male friends, family members, co-workers, almost anyone else…

    but we’re not
    we’re dealing with men who are looking for their one and only love
    the woman of their dreams that they know is out there, they just haven’t found her yet…
    but she is very real in their minds and hearts and they will, and *do*, keep looking
    forever, if that’s what it takes.
    whether they are married or single or divorced or living with someone, they are still on the look out for *her*.

    it may not be something they even want to *do*… meaning: they may have no conscious intention of looking for another woman, may not even want to still look,
    because maybe they’re relatively happy and comfortable with the woman they’re with, they may be leaning back, having their needs met by her, she may be *doing* all the relationship work, handling everything quite nicely… and *doing* a good job of “taking care” of everything for herself and for him…

    but you can bet,
    if they find that “stoked” feeling they know is possible with a woman…
    if they find a woman who straigthens out their spine and makes them stand up straight and feel their maleness coursing through their body heart mind and spirit in the presence of a woman who they feel they cannot live without one who allows him the space to experience himself in her presence … oh, you can bet he will be pursuing her and giving up what*ever* it takes to keep her.
    yes, i believe this…
    if they find *her*, regardless of committments, they are going to leave.
    they just *do*.

    so it does no good to hang on or capture or have them sign pieces of paper or make promises… if that feels like a guarantee.
    because it’s not to them
    because even if they *mean* to keep their promises to you, even if they have no intention of going anywhere, even if they would feel like a heel for breaking their promises, I believe they will go when the woman they *want* and desire to be with comes into their lives regardless of anything else.

    this i believe is what rori is telling us and i believe this with all my heart.

    rori says, they give up life liberty and the pursuit of happiness with other women for *her*. they will give up their families, their thrones (and have indeed done that) and their fortunes and lay eveyrthing they have at her feet because they want to be with HER.
    Just Her!
    They want her and only HER and no one else will do and no one else can fulfill them and they don’t care about anything else as much as being with her. they put her before everything else.

    thank you daria, for bringing the point back to this emotional connection THEY feel when we are the one

    nothing else, as you pointed out, is a guarantee that he will be sticking around …
    well, of course that’s a Rori concept, but you’re the one who stepped out there and brought it to the forefront.

  151.  #151Sweetpea on October 29, 2010 at 9:34 am

    Wow! I feel truly inspired by all of the comments!

    Daria – yes! A book on dressing like a goddess! I want one, I want one!

    Siena – so much of what you say resonated with me today! I feel like a block totally lifted when I read what you said about receiving money & it being a renewable resource! Also, the comments on heart’s desire. Yes!!!! I’m open to both of those.

    Thank you all for inspiring me to be the best goddess I can be!

  152.  #152Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 9:38 am


    #148 – First of all, everyone’s feedback is wonderful, and I feel so supported. You are all so wise!

    It feels like the attorney just railroaded me down one track, the track to his $3800 fee, which is only possible if I get on disability and declare bankruptcy. It felt like he was totally controlling our conversation, keeping me off topics that might lead my thoughts to NOT declare bankruptcy through him. That is a big reason why I am airing this yucky stuff here…to get other views and opinions. My mind is feeling too scared and little to think clearly much for myself.

    The loan has been sold to the ERS, Educational Research Service. They are VERY nasty and forceful. It would take all the emotional energy I have and then some to call them again. By law, they can’t contact me while I’m in the process of bankruptcy. So if I were to call them, I would be going out of the attorney’s umbrella of protection. That feels scary.

    You said, “I have a similar situation. I had to put it over in another pocket of my mind. I’m over here…it’s over there. It sneaks out from time to time.”

    I’ve been doing that for 17 years…that’s how it got so neglected…and so big. Ugh!~

  153.  #153Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 9:39 am


    Siena had recommended to me “The Power”, which I am reading, and it’s excellent!

  154.  #154Karen on October 29, 2010 at 9:41 am

    @151, The Power isn’t near as good as The Secret, in my opinion. I felt that the author (Rhonda Byrne) just keeps restating the same idea (the law of love) over and over. I have The Secret on audio so I can listen to it whenever, and it helps to pull me out of any depressive funk that I am in. I plan to put some of the sayings on my bathroom mirror too, my personal shrine, lol.

  155.  #155Sweetpea on October 29, 2010 at 9:41 am

    Re: #134 – SS,

    Thanks. I feel acknowledged! It used to be my #1 too. Do you feel like the worry just melted away as you felt your heart and mind open to the idea? Because that’s exactly how it felt to me. Lol!

    Woowhee!! I feel juicy! What an exhilarating feeling!

    Brenda, Thanks for the cupcake acknowledgment.

  156.  #156Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 9:41 am


    RE: #136 – You said, “B.I.T.C.H. (babe in total control of herself, lol).”

    LOLOLOLOL! 😆 Love it! I never heard this before!

    Yes, I was confusing you with Renie. Thanks for the clarification.

  157.  #157Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 9:42 am


    You’re welcome! That’s cuz you’re more than a BITCH! You’re a cupcake! 😆

  158.  #158janjune on October 29, 2010 at 9:47 am

    riffing clears my brain’s palate somehow!

    i feel another layer of understanding on why we just lean back…
    and let go of them if they leave
    and allow them to surprise us/allow ourselves to *be* surprised when they stay…

    …just when i think i’ve gotten ahold of the point of rori’s program, i find that im only experiencing the beginning and there is so much more good ahead… 🙂

  159.  #159Senior Lady Vibe on October 29, 2010 at 9:48 am

    @149: Sweetpea says:

    “Daria – yes! A book on dressing like a goddess! I want one, I want one!”

    Interesting idea. This is could be big…as much a “French Style” “Italian Style” “Steal This Style” etc

    There’s always a market for this kind of thing. Go to B&N or surf Amazon and see!!!

    This could be an amazing project!


  160.  #160BarbinOz on October 29, 2010 at 9:48 am

    #15 Renee

    I HEAR you loud and clear, this has been my experience thus far from dating sites………….these men must be either married or running scared…………

  161.  #161Senior Lady Vibe on October 29, 2010 at 9:54 am

    @155: Brenda says:

    “You’re welcome! That’s cuz you’re more than a BITCH! You’re a cupcake! ”

    I’ve heard the guys on Capitol Hill refer to it as

    B-I-T-C-H = “Boys, I’m taking charge here!” but I like Honey’s better:
    B-I-T-C-H = “Babe in total charge of herself” 😀


  162.  #162janjune on October 29, 2010 at 9:57 am

    oooh, my brain feels kind of swollen and tired.

    i’ve been up in my head alot reading all the dating advice, as much as i can, oh, it is so helpful.

    i feel like i need a break.

    i feel happy with the men who are contacting me and the ones who have dropped off.

    feels like very good practice session.

  163.  #163Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 9:59 am

    Humph! I am in a conflict with one of my best friends, who I’ve known since 1985. And, it is over Ryan. I hesitate to write this, since I have been filling the blog with my issues so much already, but it is heavy on my heart, even in the midst of all this financial turmoil.

    I love Franny very much, and she is like a spiritual sister to me. She has spent a lot of time talking to me about my relationship with Ryan.

    Last Wed on my way home from work, I called her saying, “You told me to call you when I’m tempted to contact Ryan.” She had company and could only talk 3 minutes, which was fine.

    Later she called me to follow up. I told her I called him twice and he texted me back, as I already shared with you all last Wed and Thu. Franny got a really harsh tone and said, “When are you going to learn?? Why do you keep contacting him? You knew better!”

    I forget what else she said, but I responded, “Oooh, this feels bad. I’m sorry, but I am really fragile tonight, and I just can’t handle this level of harshness. I love you, Franny, but I need to hang up. Bye!” I left her voicemails twice over the weekend. When I got no response, I emailed her this morning, “I feel very sad that I haven’t heard back from you.”

    She emailed me, “Hi Brenda,

    I did not call you back because I cannot stand to hear you say you think I am harsh. “As iron sharpens iron, so man sharpens his fellow man” and “faithful are the wound of a friend” That is where I am coming from. If you want to insist that I am harsh for speaking a hard truth to you, I will understand, but I need time away from you. When I ask you why you call Ryan even though he has made it clear that he does not want you to do so, you are hurting him. I ask you why you call him even though you know you shouldn’t and you say you are so lonely.

    Imagine Ryan lying on the ground with bleeding wounds all over his body. The police find you with the a knife in your hand which matches the wounds and you are arrested. When the judge asks why you did such a thing, you reply, “I was so lonely….”

    You comments about how much you need to hear from him and have your Ryan points and your Ryan fix or whatever…each time you put that on him it is like a cut, for he is unable to return your affection at this point in time…yes, he has told you that he loves you, but right now he cannot act on it. If you really LOVED him and not just yearned for his attention, you would give him the space he has asked you for time and again. You say you love him but your actions do not match the true meaning of the Bible’s definition of love. You are putting your needs above his. This is not love.

    So if you think I am harsh then you are free to have your thoughts, but I am praying that you will understand what I keep trying to say. Please do not respond if you think I am harsh. I am praying for you and I will always be a friend to you, but my honesty is part of the Franny package and I can’t watch you do this and be silent about it.

    Brenda: Hello Franny, It’s not so much what you said but how you said it. I felt condemned and judged. I was at an extremely fragile part of my heart that night. I simply couldn’t handle the tone I felt. It feels so good when you point things out to me gently, as you did here. We all have blind spots. Maybe I am lovingly helping you be aware of a place where you could work on, too.

    What do you think or feel? I love you! Brenda

    PS.. I feel scared to talk with you about Ryan. When I share stuff related to him, I am sharing out of my heart of hearts.

    Franny: I don’t feel loved by you at all. I feel judged and condemned just like you do. Perhaps you are scared because in your heart of hearts you know you are wrong. If I scare you then you are free to not have any contact with me any longer. But your “tender “ feelings are actually quite harsh, because you hang up on one friend who is lovingly being honest with you about a hard truth and you are ignoring the need of another friend who has asked you for space that you are refusing to give him? Ask God who is really the “harsh” one.

    Brenda: I felt emotionally unsafe. I felt I was choosing to not be emotionally abused. That is what I meant by stating I felt scared.

    Both of us come from severe emotional abuse. Is it possible some of that rubbed off on us? I am not willing to be emotionally abused ever again, even by one of my best friends.

    I never said I don’t want to be around you. I do know tho that I don’t want to discuss my precious friendship with Ryan with you any further. What do you think or feel? I love you, Franny! Brenda

    Franny: Do not say you love me in the same paragraph that says you suspect that I will emotionally abuse you. I have spent countless hours listening to you talk about your relationship with Ryan. I have prayed and I have given you objective advice over and over and over and you are still hurting him. You have taken my time an energy (which I have never once regretted, please do not misinterpret me here) and you have thrown it away.

    Every time you call Ryan it is as if you are slapping me in the face too.

    If you are not going to talk about your relationship with Ryan, then I don’t want to talk to you about anything else. I don’t want to spend time with someone who is afraid to be real with me. Someone who will accuse me of being harsh when all I am trying to do is help her to maintain a relationship with a man she loves by making her accountable for giving him space that he has requested.

    If my standing strong and fighting your inclinations to blame your loneliness for what is actually unkind, then I don’t have what it takes to be the kind of friend you want. I feel your accusations of abuse to be more harsh than my frustration with you for your refusal to hear me. This is what I think and feel.

    I just wonder if anyone has any feedback, or suggestions on how to handle it. I am not responding yet. I might even give it a day or so to cool off. Help, please! 🙂

  164.  #164Renie on October 29, 2010 at 10:08 am

    Lucy & SLV, thank you for the comments!

    Lucy, you are right. It would be manipulative, in a way and could totally backfire so I will just keep it my little ‘secret’ and feel good about it 🙂

    SLV, I also wondered who was “supposed” to go on this trip other than me…LOL. It may be no one. Who knows. It doesn’t matter because I can’t go regardless. This is a guy who I met before I discovered Rori & I was doing everything wrong!

  165.  #165Nikita on October 29, 2010 at 10:15 am

    RE: #139- I misquoted —— sweetpea wrote that,

    Hi Sweetpea,
    I agree with you 🙂

  166.  #166Nikita on October 29, 2010 at 10:18 am


    I have been secretly willing you to “go home”.

    ………I feel super touched that an exPat is giving you that option…

  167.  #167Meemee on October 29, 2010 at 10:19 am

    I need a help with a minor issue compared to the messy fussy things I discussed earlier.
    I was supposed to meet a male friend of mine tomorrow. I think I have talked about him earlier. I had given him a book from the library which is past due date and the librarian is sitting on my head to return it. This guy had been very friendly with me but lately withdrawn for reasons I do not know. I called him at the beginning of the week and he said he will meet me tomorrow over a coffee and return the book. He promised he will call me today and fix the place. He has not called me yet. I have a seminar to attend tomorrow till late afternoon and for the latter half of the day I had set apart to meet him.

    I am slightly pissed with him that despite my repeated reminders he is still not making an effort to give me the book back. This is 11pm here now and I want to send him a text (I am not planning to call him) saying I need the book back and if he cant meet me, he can send it to me by courier.

    I can not think of a good way of putting it. Can anyone help?

  168.  #168LonePlum on October 29, 2010 at 10:20 am

    Meemee 94

    You said
    “Or is there a need to know at all?”

    That’s it , that’s the Rori’s way 🙂

    all men are put at the same level. None is important.
    We do not worry about any of them, we do not suspect he wants to court us for a wife or make us a sex buddy or just be friends.

    What he hopes to do with us belongs to his own imaginary life. It does not belong to our reality.
    We keep the focus on us and we know one thing for sure: he is not committed to us.
    He does not belong to our reality.
    He is free to desire anything with us; it belongs to his imagination. It should not matter to us.

    It goes both ways.
    Each our own imaginary life and we can’t make the opposite gender responsible for our imaginary life.
    Men do not worry about the imaginary relationship we sometimes have with them
    Women should not worry about men’s imaginary plans that include us lol

    Let’s step in his mind, just for fun.
    Notice that commenting a man’s behavior has got to be a gossip because we talk on hearsay, and we give intentions to a person without knowing him.
    Gossips don’t help men/women communication.
    That’s why your question is gold “Or is there a need to know at all?”
    That’s why Rori keeps telling to the woman what she should do for her own good, independently from what her man might think or feel. Nobody can say what her man feels or thinks.

    But let’s gossip lol

    1*He talks to you in your work.
    He is not changing his plans to be with you
    He spends hours with you? He is cheating on his boss looool he is speaking instead of working. Tut tut lol Would he be using you to get unbored at work?

    2*He asks you to sit a lunch hour. He is not paying your meal, he is not organizing the lunch. He is not taking on his time to take you to a restaurant. He is using YOUR own lunch time and place and money to lighten his own life..
    It sounds like kids at school who were emotional about sharing their lunch hour.

    3*He suggests you bring food for him.
    Huh? That’s begging. He is supposed to want to bring you things, not to take from you.
    Hmmm I don’t know, he does bring you chocolate. May be he was being innocently childish like in “hey you say you do a wonderful cooking, I would love to taste it”
    Still, he should think of inviting you to a restaurant, rather than asking you to bring him food loool

    4*He walks you back home, that is better. People see him with you, he owns his interaction with you.
    So far it sounds like a school thing. He shares his lunch hour and he walks you home.
    At least he is not consciously trying to abuse you.

    5*He suggested you go and buy his house items for him
    Not only has he not worked for you yet but he is already suggesting you work for him
    He should be the one buying a small house item to offer you while he is shopping for his house. He should give it to you saying ”Here, I thought of you when I saw this bla bla bla”

    6*He has a girl friend on face book? It is not your problem, it is HIS.
    He is the only one to know if he loves her or not.
    If he should ever commit to you, he will drop her, you will know it. As long as he does no drop her, it means he is not into you. SOOOOO his life and intentions are not your problem at all. He does not have any type of importance, he is equal to all other men.
    Treat him as that, no more. Don’t take in account what he feels or wants from you. We don’t know what he feels or want.
    If you feel he wastes your work time, do tell him he needs to let you work. That’s legitimate and polite.

    7* he pings you at night?
    So, what? Million people do that and never meet lol
    It takes a second to ping a person. It is not work at all. How about him inviting you for a tea or a meal in the evening, rather than send a ping?

    8*He will invite you to his new house?
    Keep aware, please, meemee.
    If you want to have sex, go ahead but remember it does not mean a thing to the man
    If you want him to respect you as a possible match, don’t go to his house.
    If you want him as a simple friend, he does not need you at his house either. You are not real good trusty friends like justifying you can hang at each other’s house.

    7*He thinks that him being at the bottom of the work ladder, he will always have you to yell at.
    not good at all
    He got the woman/man dynamics all wrong. I don’t see a woman blossoming with him.

    Isabel Allende says: “The most destitute man has someone he can abuse: a woman or a child.”

  169.  #169Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 10:29 am


    RE: #165 – You could say, “I feel concerned that I still don’t have back the library book. The librarian is sitting on my head to return it. I don’t want to lose my library priveleges. What can we do to get the book back on ASAP?”

  170.  #170Lucy on October 29, 2010 at 10:30 am

    I just discovered my short list of what I’m looking for:

    I want a sexy man who I can tolerate living with.

    Well, maybe Enjoy living with.

    That’s all.

    Whaddya think?

    Doesn’t sound like much to ask, but I’m having a hard time getting it.

  171.  #171Senior Lady Vibe on October 29, 2010 at 10:36 am

    @150 Brenda

    I have a different team of jerks. You can WRITE to them.

    They are still jerks. That’s what they do.

    I’m going to work on my loan project again today and this weekend. I have procrastination fever too and I’ve missed a deadline. Yuck. I lost a whole bunch of stuff off my computer and I’m starting from scratch.

    What do you think about this?

    Do you know how to figure out a income contingent payment? I assumed you did. Figure it out and see if it’s less than what your monthly payment is now. You are figuring your payment based on your income NOT the outstanding balance of your loan.

    Google and find the worksheet/formulas online. You could do it this weekend. Or I’ll post here if/when I find it again. SOme of the ppl at DOE aren’t helpful either I talked to some guy who says it doesn’t exist anymore… I believe it does still exist..they’d rather we didn’t know.

    Could you write a letter proposing that you “wish to rehabililtate my defaulted student loan with monthly payments that are affordable to me.” Based on my income of _______ I could pay ___________. {insert amount you have already figured out using the formula} Or use those forms that you got in the mail. The forms should explain what you are entitled to do to stop the garnishment. If you don’t still have them there’s nothing to stop you from writing a letter on plain paper.

    Something like that. Send by certified mail.

    Bankruptcy probably only a stopgap in garnishment as I believe cannot be discharged in your bankruptcy…

    But sometimes a stopgap is all you need.

    You always know best. Not me, not even your lawyer. You will always be the one person absolutely in your corner.

    This is what I have to do again! I missed my deadline so I’m sending it anyway direct to DOE.

    So, Brenda I’ll be with you in spirit this weekend as I want to get things in mail before Nov. 1st.

    And…bottom line. It’s only money. Even with a garnishment we can still be be happy every day, be beautiful, healthy, lose weight, earn an income, find a man who will commit to us in a loving, sexy, fun, safe and secure relationship.

    You are smart. I believe you can do whatever you have to do.


  172.  #172Sweetpea on October 29, 2010 at 10:36 am


    Re: #76 – wow! I have to say, in the past, I wouldn’t even date a friend’s ex-boyfriend. It was totally taboo to me. But this post is awesome! Thanks for sharing it. It takes a brave, brave soul to buck society like she did.

    I’ve been touched by this a little more personally. My brother (whom some of you might know. I totally idolize) married an ex-girlfriend of my cousin’s. Holy cow! Did that stir up some crap. It’s been YEARS since he married her, and they are enviably happy and have an amazing relationship. But my brother and cousin are just now beginning to talk again and my Dad was none too happy about it either.

    I told him at the time, that I would not have gone there, personally. It’s not as if he stole her away, my cousin was a total jacka$$ to her, but he was still butt hurt by it. All I can say though, is when I see them together, I feel very happy that they were both brave enough to follow their bliss because it is a beautiful thing to behold.

    Just thought I’d share my own experience with this. See? My bro’s a renegade too. Wonder why I’m attracted to that. Good for Trudy (is that her name) for being a renegade herself and her friend for getting past her selfish needs and blessing it.

    As for the rest of what you say, seems like you’re getting some good practice at speaking “Rori-esque” on here. Good luck!

  173.  #173Senior Lady Vibe on October 29, 2010 at 10:40 am

    @168: Lucy says:

    “I just discovered my short list of what I’m looking for:
    I want a sexy man who I can tolerate living with.”

    I like that. 😀


  174.  #174Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 10:43 am


    I hear you saying I am willing to take crumbs. It would feel good to hear you have really high standards!! What do you think/feel?

  175.  #175Meemee on October 29, 2010 at 10:45 am

    Wow! that was an enligtening take on it.
    No, I am not planning to go to his house. No way!
    Some parts of your reply were really really enlightening to me.
    Thanks dear

  176.  #176Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 10:46 am


    $408 payment if I agree. About $500 if it is garnished. Thanks! I will consider writing the letter.

  177.  #177Lucy on October 29, 2010 at 10:47 am

    Whoa, Brenda! That’s not at ALL what I’m saying! My standards are apparently too high to accept 99.999% of the men who contact me, ya know? 🙂

  178.  #178Lucy on October 29, 2010 at 10:48 am

    I do feel curious, though, Brenda, about why you heard it that way….

  179.  #179Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 10:50 am


    RE: #166 – Wow, awesome breakdown of her situation! It was enlightening to me, too! 🙂 It really helps me to hear the perspective of other people, because I was so left out of the social loop for too many decades.

    I feel curious about your background…

  180.  #180Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 10:52 am


    Why have a short list? Why not a long list? Why base your expectations, dreams, and desires on most of the men whom you have met so far? Why not base it on the stars?


    I feel sad to hear a Siren having a short list. It would feel so good to hear another Siren has a long list based on shooting for the stars, shooting for the best of the best, in a long list! What do you think or feel?

  181.  #181Lucy on October 29, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Yeah, I love the way loneplum breaks things down and illuminates things.

  182.  #182Lucy on October 29, 2010 at 10:57 am

    Brenda, I’m not basing it on the men I have met — I’m basing it on what I want — becoming clearer about what I want.

    Most of the relationship coaches advise having a short list because we don’t know exactly what package the relationship we really want will come in.

  183.  #183Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 10:59 am

    The reason I spelled out my long exchange with Franny is because twice now in recent weeks, I’ve had a major falling out with valued friends BECAUSE I used feeling messages.

    So I wonder:

    Am I using them wrong?
    Is it because my shift in the long term relationship is creating a vacuum?
    Is it healthy or nonhealthy?
    How to address feeling messages in long-standing friendships…
    Am I going to lose all my long term friends because I am adjusting my relational style?
    Am I really that abrasive?

  184.  #184janjune on October 29, 2010 at 11:03 am


    #166 and all of your comments….

    i am getting in touch with the *depth* of the dynamic with men from reading your comments

    thank you for sharing your thoughts 🙂

  185.  #185Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 11:03 am


    All right, whatever works for you. My list is someone who is spiritually deep in things of God; emotionally sensitive and kind; intellectually intelligent; physically as tall as me or taller and not much more than 15 yrs apart in age…beyond that, I am willing to wait and be surprised. But I really want a man whose vibe is on the same wavelength as mine. That’s hard to find.

    Can I go back to bed now? I like Diet Dr. Pepper Cherry! Yum!

  186.  #186Lucy on October 29, 2010 at 11:04 am

    I actually feel really good about this. It’s like that exercise Rori has of identifying the FEELINGS you want in your relationship — and being surprised by the man who ends up giving you those feelings.

    My short list is the conscious awareness of why I unconsciously felt so attracted to TN man and WH.

    Now that I know what I’m looking for, I can let go of it having to be one of them. It could be ANY man who is sexy (me-focused translation: I feel turned-on and fulfilled with him) and enjoyable to live with.

    What do you think? 🙂

  187.  #187Meemee on October 29, 2010 at 11:05 am

    Lucy and Brenda
    Three cheers for Loneplum 🙂 🙂

    I have that “Meemee the president” post (that you posted on last thread) pasted on my wall. I might want to become the president of India, may be 8 years down the line, when I become 35. I might, I really might consider it 🙂 🙂
    Love you

  188.  #188Lucy on October 29, 2010 at 11:06 am

    Brenda – “My list is someone who is spiritually deep in things of God; emotionally sensitive and kind; intellectually intelligent; physically as tall as me or taller and not much more than 15 yrs apart in age…beyond that, I am willing to wait and be surprised. But I really want a man whose vibe is on the same wavelength as mine.”

    Feels shorter than my short list. 🙂

  189.  #189Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 11:08 am


    RE: #184 – I feel what you’re saying. I am trying to be more feeling-centered on who I marry ultimately, too.

  190.  #190Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 11:09 am


    RE: #186 – I’m saying a whole lot more than I can say on the blog. It’s between the lines.

  191.  #191Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 11:10 am


    Wow! That’s awesome! You go!

  192.  #192Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 11:12 am

    Ok I’ll define what I mean more in my list for a man’s qualifications: I want to be with a man who is a spiritual leader, Chri*stlike, and ideally in ministry.

  193.  #193Senior Lady Vibe on October 29, 2010 at 11:12 am

    @161: Brenda says:

    “I just wonder if anyone has any feedback, or suggestions on how to handle it. I am not responding yet. I might even give it a day or so to cool off. Help, please! “

    What a wonderful friend you have! She is a treasure. Oh, I wish I had a dear friend like yours. The only thing I could recommend is:

    Dear Franny, please forgive me. I must have been temporarily insane.

    [this is what a friend and I used to say to each other when we had overreacted or gone numb in some highly stressed emotional scenario: “I must have been temporarily insane.” That’s all we needed to say to each other and we “got it.”]

    Sometimes we’d tell each other that too:

    “Don’t worry about it, I know you’re ‘temporarily insane'”– when it was about a relationship, a job, housing, finances, anything emotionally charged. And usually the one of us without “the problem” would sit down and reason out what to do and the steps to take or even DO some of the steps for the other.

    Note: Brenda, you once mentioned that I “put down” myself and my beliefs. This is so not true; I have very strong beliefs and I struggle sometimes not to be pushy and to interfere. In this case I agree 100% with your friend and she has put things in a way that I hope I can learn to do.

    I find only the deepest, truest, most unselfish remarks in her messages to you. I find no abuse–perhaps asking you “why you were doing it” might not have been the best way to go and I would not recommend that phrase but it was no doubt said out of frustration.

    I believe she is very stressed with you.


  194.  #194Dorothea on October 29, 2010 at 11:15 am

    Brenda, I think this is something a lot of us have been going through as we transition to a new communication and relational style. We are all hitting road blocks when our beloved silver bullet feeling messages actually result in the other person feeling blamed. Give yourself a big hug. You will figure it out. You will fall into your own way. Keep practicing. Just wait. We all will :D.

    That fact that you even try to use feelings instead of straight up blaming is a huge step. You should feel really proud.

    True friends will stick around if you keep them in the loop about your transition to a different relational style and apologize when it’s due. Like, “sorry, I am working on changing my relational style, and I didn’t mean to make you feel blamed or judged. I am working on this…”

    True friends worth having will not tolerate you using feeling messages as a way of hurting them and being an emotional mess that requires everyone to walk on eggshells.

    I hope you’re feeling a little better now.

  195.  #195Sweetpea on October 29, 2010 at 11:20 am

    Hi Nikita!

    Thanks. 😀

  196.  #196Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 11:29 am

    SLV and Dorothea,

    Thanks for your feedback. I know she cares about me. But if you had heard her tone of voice on the phone last Wed, when I hung up on her lovingly, you would have heard harshness and condemnation. I ran to the blog, where it is soft and gentle when we overfunction for the umpteenth time. And, Franny doesn’t know this, but it all turned out with Ryan, since he opened our friendship back up.

    Even tho I know she cares, she can be really loud and harsh, and it’s the way her family speaks. I can’t handle it from her any more than I could handle it from my parents! I am just too sensitive, and I feel emotionally abused.

    Another issue I have is she is pretty much saying if you don’t take my advice hook, line, and sinker, I won’t advise you any more and I won’t be your friend. I believe there is safety in counsel from various people. So am I a jerk if I don’t do every single thing that every single person advises?

    Or should I do what Kenny says, and just keep my issues between him and me? I don’t want to do that. I am asking that rhetorically.

    When I get advice from various people, it is like seeing a diamond through many facets all at once. It gives me a broader perspective and gives me solutions I may not have thot of alone.

    Did I truly do anything worth apologizing over? I don’t see it.

  197.  #197Lucy on October 29, 2010 at 11:33 am

    Brenda, I would recommend staying with your feelings, and not judging or blaming your friend.

    It sounds to me like you are both judging each other.

  198.  #198Renee on October 29, 2010 at 11:33 am

    Brenda — I typed out a long synopsis of what I saw as the issue with your reaching out to Ryan, but I deleted it and will just say this instead…I understand why your friend Frannie is frustrated. Having lost my “best” friend earlier this year (when she tried to screw me over financially), I would thank my lucky stars that I had a friend as brave and devoted as Frannie is.

    It’s almost like watching a 3-yr old putting their hand into the fire repeatedly and being surprised each time she gets burned and I imagine that would get extremely frustrating for someone who loves you to watch.

    I hope you take this in the spirit it was meant in — I want you to be happy and move towards all the great things life has to offer, but I don’t see how staying in contact with Ryan helps you get there.

  199.  #199Sweetpea on October 29, 2010 at 11:44 am

    Sorry to hear about Franny. I know that you value her friendship and she’s been very supportive of you and this situation in the past.

    My thought (note: I’m in my head here, boy-mode) is that she is truly concerned about your being hurt anymore by Ryan. She knows probably more about the goings on than any of us on Siren Island, even.

    I don’t have any good advice for you (I wish I did) on how to handle it. I’m not sure what to think about her telling you that she doesn’t want a friend who can’t be real with her. I’m not sure that feeling messages are the problem. Maybe the emotional abuse comment was a little blaming (?) But that’s small potatoes.

    I’m curious to know if the falling out with your other friend had to do with Ryan. It doesn’t seem like it did, but in Franny’s case, she seems scared for you to me. Wish I knew how to help. Just know I’m feeling your pain. For what that’s worth…(Shrug).

  200.  #200Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Renee, Lucy, and Sweetpea,

    Thank you for the feedback!! That really helps me be more objective of myself and the situation with Franny! I will give it all some thot, prayer, and feeling, and i will write Franny with an apology over the weekend. I love you all!

  201.  #201Lucy on October 29, 2010 at 11:54 am

    This Lady A song playing on the radio right now should be banned (“Need You Now”).

  202.  #202Lucy on October 29, 2010 at 11:54 am

    Brenda, I’m glad you feel good about the feedback! <3

  203.  #203Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 11:55 am

    In other news, I just got a call back from a Christian attorney with whom I’ve been acquainted 22 years! He is now semi-retired, and I asked him if I could simply have some advice.

    He kindly just spent 15 min with me on the phone!! I feel extremely solid with his advice, since he knows the law AND my heart! He affirmed the rate of the other attorney with whom I’m working. He said it sounds like a wise course of action to be free of debt; get a fresh start; feel better being free of as much responsibility on disability for a time. He thinks I am on the right track, and he recommended that I go thru with the bankruptcy, and its accompanying disability (necessary in order to be free of the student loan). He reminded me the disability will not hold me back forever. I can get back in the work force whenever I feel better able to. He suggested that I also discuss it with my church leaders, and I feel good about that, too. He said to tell the people at the church that I need a leg up right now. He said I need to make a choice and move on it without waiting around.

  204.  #204LonePlum on October 29, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Meemee 185

    I know

  205.  #205Laughing Goddess on October 29, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    Wow! I just had a cool experience. I was feeling overwhelmed again with the physical details of my life. I feel inspired to do and become so many things and I was feeling overwhelmed with how I was going to accomplish them all.

    So I tried an Abraham process to feel better.

    I was trying to go for contentedness, hopefulness, and optimism on the emotional scale.

    So I wrote a list of all the things that are working in my life.

    And there were a lot of things. And then I realized most of them have happened all within the last year. Wow! I feel pleasantly surprised!!! If I could do all that within the last year, I can easily accomplish what I want now.

    Here’s my list of things that are working in my life.

    – I have my own house all to myself (well, LI is here now which is great but technically it’s my place…no roommates!)
    – I have a brand new car with no payments. I love that I am free to go do whatever I want.
    – I now own my business. I have work lined up and payments due to me. I bought my partner out and that went well. The energy is good between us.
    – and I’m free to run the business as I want which is great!
    – I have a lover who treats me so well, is moving the relationship forward, whom I feel attracted to
    – I live in a great community with creative, high vibing people. I see a lot of potential fun there.
    – I have enough money saved up to pay my bills for a bit, money coming in, and work on the horizen.
    – I have a job with lots of freedom
    – I have a great dog!
    – my body is doing great. I lost about 15-20 lbs over the past year and am pretty much at my ideal weight.
    – my sister is still alive and healthy after a near death experience last year
    – I have people who will help me if I am ever in dire straights financially
    – I am making progress on my house being organized and comfy.

    Ooo now I feel worried I will seem like I am bragging. But I don’t want to feel that way I want to feel excited and celebratory about what is working.

    Wow, I see a limiting belief here. I can’t be happy about my life because it might hurt other people.

    Nooooooooo! Limiting belief be gone.

    What if I believed it would inspire people?

  206.  #206Nikita on October 29, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    oh my goodness, Sirens! I just fell in Love!!! ahem, I mean Lust 🙂

    so…. he was tall dark and handsome, he dresses like a chef but I don’t know for sure since Halloween is this weekend…but he was buying fancy food stuffs the way a chef would and…..

    he was on line when I walked past him and then he got off line and followed me around 🙂 OMG!!!!

    my heart was….. somersaulting !!! and I still feel giddy and 😯 and wow…..he was beautiful…. I think if I didn’t scurry off he may have made a move—— wow…. younger than my usual too…

    wow…I am totally in Love 🙂 ahem, I mean Lust 🙂

    sigh,……swoon….(fanning self from overheating) sigh…

  207.  #207Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 12:17 pm


    That is wonderful ! I am so happy for you! You enjoy your hard-earned success! You are a role model to us all…in many ways!!! Happy Laughing Goddess Day!

  208.  #208Nikita on October 29, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    10 seconds…. a new record for myself…. now, what is his name???? haha!! strapping young man is def. a good description….wow…..

  209.  #209Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    I have learned that success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he has had to overcome while trying to succeed. – Booker T. Washington

    I talked with a woman the other night who had called in to brag about her son. She was so emotional I couldn’t even air the conversation because I couldn’t stop crying thru it. Her son, at 10 years old, had just learned how to walk. He has cerebral palsy and it was the first time he’d ever walked across the room without the aid of a walker.

    Consider for a minute the people around you and what obstacles they may have had to overcome. Obstacles you may not even realize ever existed for that person, or do currently exist. We all face challenges at points in our life. Sometimes you’ll be walking down the road of life and everything will be going well and then “Boom,” the road washes out beneath you. Or a tragedy befalls you. Troubles arrive and you have to deal with them.
    We don’t always get to choose our circumstances. Rarely do we get to choose them. But we always get to choose how we’re going to respond. Whatever your obstacle is today, big or small, don’t give up. Say a heartfelt prayer for help. Keep praying whenever the circumstance comes to mind. With that and a little faith, you have a good defense against a troubled heart. And with a heart that’s strong, you will find the strength to overcome obstacles.

  210.  #210Laughing Goddess on October 29, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    Ooooo Brenda! Thank you so much. That feels really good to hear!

  211.  #211Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 12:28 pm


    You mean 10 second eye contact? Or 10 seconds before you bounded away like a scared bunny? 🙂 Just teasing. How cum you didn’t stick around for the fireworks? 😆

  212.  #212Dorothea on October 29, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    i am having a falling out with my friend too. he owes me money. never loan money to your friends or pre-pay for their services. make your money a one way ticket or you’ll end up feeling screwed.

    he is 2 months overdue paying me back 40 bucks. i have been really patient for the money but his behavior toward me has gotten more and more out of pocket. finally today we arranged a pick up for my money after he said coming to me (2 miles away) was such a huge hassle for him, so I am going to him, and i said thanks, and he said pffft, i won’t ask you for help again, my bad.

    the only reason i was concerned about getting my money back is because i didn’t want it to push our friendship south. and now i feel like burning that bridge. so he can keep the money and use it to buy some decency. har har. i know that’s harsh. i feel angry

  213.  #213Sweetpea on October 29, 2010 at 12:46 pm


    Lol! Good for you!

    Laughing Goddess – Yay! For you. Inspirational. Must be my word for the day!

    Brenda – is this attorney you talked to going to help you with the filing for disability. I think a break from the rigors of your sleep disorder and having to try to function with it would be soooo good for you. Good luck Sister Siren!

  214.  #214Honey on October 29, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    Brenda –

    I just read what your friend wrote. It sounds like she is concerned, not only for you, but for Ryan. If he has repeatedly asked you for space, I’m not clear on why you are not giving to him. He is schizophrenic, right? If so, and you are violating his boundaries, that could be very stressful to him and harmful to his mental health. He does not have strong defenses. I hear your friend saying that you are wounding him with your contact.

    It is ok that you still feel bad and that you don’t have it all together yet. This is a process. But it’s not ok to hurt someone else that cannot entirely defend himself. He has a very serious illness and needs to do what he needs to stay stable and sane. I hear your friend defending him and asking you to leave him alone for his sake as well as your own.

    I understand that you are lonely and sad. You are just going to have to find a different way to deal with it than putting it on him. That is the most loving thing if he cannot deal with it. I think you are starting to move in a better direction to take better care of yourself, and that should help you be able to let go, and maybe focus more on your own stuff rather than his.

    I am sorry if this sounds harsh. I am in no way trying to minimize what you are going through – especially when I’m new to this blog and don’t know the entire history. At the same time I think it’s important to acknowledge what he’s going through. Part of setting our own boundaries is respecting other people’s. Sometimes the most loving this is to let someone go.

  215.  #215Honey on October 29, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    Dorothea –

    He said “I won’t ask you for help again.” Maybe that’s a good thing, in other words, “I won’t ask for a loan and then keep your money again.” LOL He acts like he is doing YOU a favor by taking your money…now he’s going to “punish” you by not asking for anymore loans?

    Shame on you for not letting others take advantage of you…NOT!

  216.  #216Brenda on October 29, 2010 at 1:16 pm


    I think she’s making a bigger deal out of it than it really is. He has stronger defenses than anyone I know. He doesn’t mind me contacting him near as much as Franny does! I just am really attached to him and struggling. Gotta go.

  217.  #217Nikita on October 29, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    I love this clip from the woman who wrote the vagina monologues, regarding security 🙂

    thx Loneplum!

  218.  #218Nikita on October 29, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    I refute the “never lend money to friends” claim.

    A girlfriend and I spent 10 years as friends lending each other money…. we are not speaking right now but every penny between us is accounted for and in the hands of the rightful owner. a few thousand moved between us…. and I miss that- I loved sharing that kind of trust and care….. when we “lent” it…we discussed how we would return it and if one hit a snag we just communicated that…like, hey I lost my job or I really want to do xyz and I owe you this money so how are you? do you need it?? because I do…. need it and I’d like to not worry about it for a few months….. we got on very well that way…. and even when I was furious with her I still paid her back….. and if she owed a little…I’d lend more…. and we kept tabs on the numbers together…. gee, i am missing her!!!! gossip is what turned me off from the friendship……. and not about me but to me…. I just didn’t want to have preconceived notions of people anymore due to her “reporting” on who they were….

    I refute! money was NEVER the issue.

  219.  #219Dorothea on October 29, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    i was feeling very angry, it felt bad and good at the same time. weird.

  220.  #220Honey on October 29, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Brenda –

    He may seem like he has strong defenses, but he doesn’t. It’s part of the disorder and there’s no way around it.

    Here’s a link with some basic info…

    It is about family support, but it does discuss how to prevent a relapse, and includes keeping a low stress enviornment and not getting emotionally involved with the person.

    ‘Nuf said…you can do with the information what you wish.

    I do feel for your struggle. It’s hard to let go of someone that is loved…especially when they have been in your life for quite awhile like he has.

  221.  #221Dorothea on October 29, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    Nikita – I do have ONE friend like that, and we have known each other since we were 9. Even when she was on meth 24/7 and I loaned her money for an abortion, she paid me back 50 a week. even if she was high as f*ck.

  222.  #222Dorothea on October 29, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    she actually paid me back more on time than i ever paid her back. sigh.

  223.  #223Siena on October 29, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    Brenda, I love all the support you received here today and on the phone with your lawyer friend. I truly believe this is your prayer from this morning being answered. Yay!

    Hmmm, not sure what to make of this – just read a chapter in a book about James Redfield’s “The Tenth Insight” where he talked about animals being answers to prayers. He said, “pay attention to animals when (you) need direction or insight.”

    Then today, a black and white cat sauntered into my home. Have never seen him before. He hung out for 30 minutes or so, and left.

    Looking up “cat omen” on Google, it says that a cat entering your home is a propitious event.

    I don’t know if I believe that, but it was sure nice to visit with him today! I always feel blessed when animals cross my path or come into my home!

  224.  #224Dorothea on October 29, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    I had a friend who I fell out with once I stopped having money problems. we used to loan money back and forth all the time, but I stopped spending frivolously and worked to save my money and she didn’t, so I stopped needing to borrow money and she kept borrowing. I didn’t mind loaning her money, but it felt awful to see her stay in a financial black hole of irresponsibility with two toddlers to feed. After a couple of years of this I realized that as nice as it was to be able to loan money back and forth with a friend, I wanted to be in a deep close friendship like that with someone who wants to work on being more financially independent and responsible, instead of just being able to count on each other to bail each other out when we’re not allocating our funds responsibly.

    i am not the most responsible but i at least pay my bills when they’re due, instead of eating out 5 nights a week and buying new clothes every other day. that money burns a hole in my pocket but i hate to see it burn the pants right off of someone.

  225.  #225Nikita on October 29, 2010 at 2:33 pm


    I am all for Asset Based Thinking. 100%.
    I would love a group of gfs that are money focused-like an investment group-

  226.  #226Turtle Girl on October 29, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    To all:

    If anyone here has not seen the Vagina Monologues they are an absolute must. They come to my town in February, not sure about other parts of the country.
    If you can go and see, they are awesome. You will laugh, cry and think. You will come away changed a bit.
    It is a wonderful celebration of the female.

  227.  #227tinque on October 29, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    “a black and white cat ”

    Siena – Lucky you. Was it Peanut?


  228.  #228life_is_too_short_to... on October 29, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    Somebody here slap me, please!!

    I have been making such nice progress, focusing on my feelings, my life,

    I have truly been losing interest in making emotional connection with HSLD man anymore, because he is nowhere near committed. Constantly offers excuses and says he is confused.

    Calls everyday to keep me hooked, no doubt for his own imaginary purposes, but I am getting sick of feeling literally sick to my stomach the morning after, once again getting my hopes up after one of these calls where he throws out some crumbs, and when i wake up with a sinking feeling.

    anyway, because i am opening up so much more to the other men, i was having a fantastic time last night with three of them on different online dating sites, lots of interest in talking/meeting, have a date on Sunday, and a couple of others want to meet as well…i was enjoying myself SO much, opening up, creating connection…

    I told myself i would not answer the phone if HSLD called. But I did. When i wouldn’t emotionally connect with him, he called me boring.

    Today I felt so angry and like crying and going into crazymaking thinking blaming myself for not being enough of a Siren, that i should be patient and give him time, and that it’s my fault that he’s so “confused” and emotionally unavailable.
    This succeeded in taking my mind off the other nice men I have been engaging with, lessening the connection.

    I can’t seem to do the No Contact Rule, because I just don’t want things to end that way. We were inseparable for three years as teens/young adults, and tried to get together a few times after that also.

    I feel trapped, but I also feel that i’m making progress.

    Thank you so so much everyone for your sharings, I can’t tell you how helpful they all are…the support here is just incredible


  229.  #229life_is_too_short_to... on October 29, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    I can’t believe I have never seen the Vagina Monologues !

  230.  #230Renee on October 29, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Txting back and forth w/a new guy who’s cracking me up 🙂 . (He called originally, but I wasn’t in the mood to chat on the phone). Don’t know if it’ll turn into anything (he’s 3 hrs away) but he is cute and successful and I’m just enjoying receiving his humor at the moment 🙂 .

    Hope all you sirens have wonderful, yummy evenings!

  231.  #231Renee on October 29, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    LITS — Have you read “Mr Unavailable & The Fallback Girl”? I think that book would really resonate w/u right now…it sure did w/me and Blondie (coming on super strong at first and pursuing relentlessly only to pull back once I got emotionally invested). Anyway — reading that is what riled me up enough to send Blondie the “get lost” message. I think reading it (or re-reading it, as the case may be) would really help you right now. What do you think?

  232.  #232Daria on October 29, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    life –

    first off this is my first “non-slap” that may be nonetheless kinda harsh – DONT EVER ask anyone to slap you… (i know you were joking)… NOT beating up you please, theres a lil girl inside you scared to be slapped… and she needs your love and protection

    second – when he calls you boring. say… ohh that feels bad… actually i feel kinda angry…

    if the next thing he says doesnt feel good

    hang up

    this will bring u back mucho power

    The End.

  233.  #233Daria on October 29, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    Brenda – to me this behavior feels terrible to witness, not so much because i’m concerned about Ryan… but about you

    it’s like watching someone injecting themself with heroin while trying to quit.. and then they say… hey i just injected myself with heroin and look at me

    and im like… wtf! … i feel horrified, and helpless, and angry, and powerless… and sad… and scared

    it does Not feel good. I don’t want to be abused by being exposed to the emotional fall outs of another person’s addiction

    I think in this situation Rori says to leave the man until He heals himself and not to tolerate feeling horrible

    It would work similarly to women… not to judge… because maybe them taking those last hits are just what’s right for them

    but it doesn’t feel good to me to see that… and i feel drained

    i don’t want to feel that way

  234.  #234janjune on October 29, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    daria are you still here?

  235.  #235life_is_too_short_to... on October 29, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    Hi Renee, thanks, i have been reading your posts about it. i am on the fence about buying that book because I have been reading all the articles on Baggage claim site, and wonder if most of the info in the book is in the articles. What do you think?

    I have been finding them valuable to a certain extent, but I feel that it leans towards making them into a bad guy and me into a victim, which feels counterproductive. The saving grace is that she does from time to time mention to look at your own part in it.

    anyway…the problem is that i have told him to get lost many times already. Gone for a month without talking to him. The nostalgia/sentimentality/familiarity part is what trips me up.

    There is even a couple of articles on childhood sweetheart relationships on BaggageClaim that are very down to earth and eye opening.

    I honestly feel like when I can truly let go of it, it will probably just fade away. I do feel like it’s happening…

    I am so impressed with how you are handling it

    Thanks again 🙂

  236.  #236Siena on October 29, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    Tinque, maybe it was Peanut!! Yay!!!

  237.  #237Daria on October 29, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    More: also, the way to heal the loneliness is to go through it

    i struggled with loneliness too and with going to see guywhohadababy oh boiiiii did i struggle

    but it healed

    i still have had even recent times when i just started reaching out to men

    it’s only recently getting clear that this happens when something is triggered that feels bad and im looking for Comfort, and someone to give me energy to change my energy/mood

    hugging myself and talking to myself in a loving way has slowly started to work – my inner child is starting to trust me now

    HEY?Y you know how i did it actually?

    I read a bunch of INNER BONDING articles

    they are awesome for identifying loneliness, heartache, and when it’s from the wounded child and how to talk to them – it involves asking your spiritual guidance what is the most loving thing to do in the moment

  238.  #238Daria on October 29, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    janjune ive just arrived… whatsup!

  239.  #239life_is_too_short_to... on October 29, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    “first off this is my first “non-slap” that may be nonetheless kinda harsh – DONT EVER ask anyone to slap you… (i know you were joking)… NOT beating up you please, theres a lil girl inside you scared to be slapped… and she needs your love and protection”

    I knew after i wrote that that it might be taken seriously, but I really meant it in a “Snap out of it” way, but your point, Daria, is taken,

    “second – when he calls you boring. say… ohh that feels bad… actually i feel kinda angry…

    if the next thing he says doesnt feel good

    hang up

    this will bring u back mucho power”

    Yes! This is exactly what I have been doing! But, he likes the drama. It makes him think I am passionate and really want him. I said it would be really sick if he provoked me just to get me to react like that. He said he agreed with me that it would be sick. But he likes making up. Games, games, games.

    The End.

  240.  #240BarbinOz on October 29, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    #11 Honey

    I totally agree. I don’t want a dishonest man thank you very much. Finish with the girlfriend FIRST!!

  241.  #241Laughing Goddess on October 29, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    I like what Brenda posted about how are accomplishments are relative to the obstacles we’ve overcome.

    I’m feeling really hopeful remembering where I’ve come from.

    I don’t usually share much about my past but I feel inspired to share now.

    Five years ago, I got rid of all my possessions, left a job I had been at for eight years, and moved to Hawaii where I didn’t know anyone. I didn’t have really any money. It was a
    huge leap of faith. I soon met a man and moved in with him. I worked on his farm/retreat center and started a business with him. I did that for about three years.

    Finally, he asked me to leave because we weren’t getting along (this was pre-Rori). I didn’t have any money because I had been working for him. Supporting his life. Starting a business that made over 100k in profit. But we didn’t have any financial agreement. I will never make that mistake again!

    So he asked me to leave. Gave me $10,000 for buying me out of the business. All I had were my clothes and a few personal items. It was kinda crazy. $10,000 isn’t that much when it’s ALL you have. No home, no car, no job, no household items. I had worked a lot those three years but it was all his.

    Then, immediately after my sister became dealthly ill. The
    timing was good in the sense that I was totally freed up and could take the time to help her which she really needed at the time.

    I did that for about six months. Staying with her in the hospital. I spent the 10,000 at that time.

    So, after she became well, which was about 1 1/2 years ago, I was free to do whatever I wanted but now I had no home, no car, no job, and no money.

    I did have freedom which is something I really wanted. I wanted to break free from my familial …lineage I guess. Bust free of all that was expected of me and do my own thing.

    So, just a year and a half ago this is where I was.

    So, I moved to a new town. Luckily I had some friends there and I started from scratch. No family within 1000’s of miles. It felt kinda scary.

    And when I look back at all that has changed in that time, I feel so amazed and grateful and hopeful that my life can change for the better even more.

  242.  #242janjune on October 29, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    well, rori is right… men will step up, drive the distance it takes, make the plans, do what it takes if they’re interested…
    and if they’re not, they just won’t do it!

    leaning back, giving them room to step up and figure out how much they want to be with us ahhh feels so good.

    i just can’t believe this…

    i have four meetings set up, all with men who (if they are who they say they are) i know will be fun to meet.

    two of them are involved in spiritual and humanitarian work, one is a silversmith and sounds very creative with his work and the other is into organic farming along with having a full time job… all things I like and am pursuing myself.

    Set my boundaries
    Felt my feelings (the best i could)
    Spoke my words (didn’t do it perfectly)
    and Boy! am I surprised!!
    none of these men are men I would have picked for myself.
    Yet they have stepped up and are doing the work, planning the dates, all that rori tells us to draw as boundaries that are “not up for negotiation”! 🙂

    i can’t wait to see who they are.
    feels real.
    will see.

    this will be it for me for awhile on Siren Island… taking a short break, see what these men are all about!

    thankyou thankyou to everyone who has shared their online dating experiences and words of advice and wisdom.


  243.  #243janjune on October 29, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    im having second thoughts about how i handled my mailbox…

    do you delete the men who haven’t stepped up within a couple of weeks or do you just let them stay in your mailbox until they delete you?


  244.  #244janjune on October 29, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    i mean i got tired of logging on and seeing them leaning back lol

  245.  #245Laughing Goddess on October 29, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    And now as I tell the story, I feel proud of myself for taking the leap. For releasing familial patterns and going out on my own. My family lives in a small town in the Midwest and I was dying there. I needed an adventure and I got it. Now I feel more of a pull to settle down. It’s like I had to have no possessions for a while and just be free. Free to go wherever I wanted, try new experiences. Nothing tying me down.

    Now I want a home. I want a job. But I want to do it in my way. Not the way my family has.

    Thanks for holding space for me to revisit this.

    It really gives me perspective. If I could make it through that, then what I’m dealing with now is nothing. It will be easy. I CAN do it!

  246.  #246Renee on October 29, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    LITS — I can see how you might feel that way, but I found the book very empowering. One of the things it really helped me with was just realizing what behavior was truly dysfunctional…it’s been so long since I’ve been in a healthy, long-term relationship that my measuring stick kind of got out of whack.

    And the book also made me take a look at my part in the process — mainly not having the self esteem to set firm boundaries and continuing to live in the fairytale of “but we were meant to be together”. There is no fairytale — just the reality of the behavior you see before you and the quality of the interactions you’re experiencing. If those things aren’t good, your relationship’s not good for you.

  247.  #247Renee on October 29, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    Question here…still txting this man and I asked him what the strangest or funniest online dating experience he’d had was. He replied with a story about a woman who sent him a pair of VS panties prior to the date in a size small (ok, very weird), but to top it off, when he met her, “she was as big as a house!”

    That felt bad to read…I mean, I understand he wants to date someone who’s height/weight proportionate and I’m pretty slender, but it just seemed like such a crude way to put that…how should I reply?

  248.  #248Dorothea on October 29, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    Laughing Goddess – I feel great reading your story. I am breaking free from my familial destiny too. I feel like I have actually broken free. In fact, I feel so broken free that I think I could sit down with the mother who abused, drugged, and abandoned me and feel immune to it all. I feel the hooks to my past less and less deep in my back pulling me backwards. I feel less fearful about being abandoned or abused as a general rule. I feel like I can get ahead in life. I feel honest and authentic even though the only model I was raised with was centered around scamming, lying, and manipulating for both material and psychological gain.

    Weeee I am free like a bird.

  249.  #249Jean on October 29, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    Hello ladies,
    I am wondering if anyone has a suggestion for me. I have been circular dating…have abou 6 men in my rotation now. None is MR Right…but I am having this problem as have been dating all of them about 2 months now. and 3 of them have wanted to become exclusive…me as their only girlfriend..trouble is, I don’t want to give them the wife, not girlfriend talk…because, frankly…I don’t want to be a wife of any of these men! I am only dating them for the thearpy and practice as per rori’s advice. And there was another man in my rotation..that I gave the girlfriend talk to ..and the next date..he showed up with a ring and a proposal…!!!! and He wasn’t Mr Right either…so I am unsure what to do. THis isn’t the first time this has happened to me. that a man has asked me to marry him after only a month or so of dating, but before it was just one man at a time I was dating…so…what Do I do????? Tell these men I want to be a wife and hope and pray they don’t aske me!!! or after dating for a while just drop them??? It seems to stem from my age/men’s age problem. I used to only date men younger then me(I am 56, always mistaken for about 44-46). but since rori said don’t turn any man down, unless he is really scary or totally disgusting…I have been accepting dates from men my age or older..even if Normally I would never be attracted to these men…and they seem to be the ones who want to marry right away. What do you think ladies?

  250.  #250Daria on October 29, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    janjune – i don’t delete them… BUT it doesn’t matter…

    deleting them out of MY mailbox is a preference…

    i like having my mailbox saying “4000” messages…

    it lets me know im hitting superstar status wihtout selling a thing yet

  251.  #251Dorothea on October 29, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    Wow Jean you must be one hot mama:P

  252.  #252janjune on October 29, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    Hi Jean,
    yes, I feel stopping dating them sooner, before they attach like, that would be good…

  253.  #253BarbinOz on October 29, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    #103 Brenda (and Lucy)

    My house is not messy, in fact it is quite lovely and very feminine BUT I don’t have a man either 🙁

  254.  #254Laughing Goddess on October 29, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    Dorothea: yes! I was feeling you as I was writing that and remembering how far you’ve come from your familial destiny as well. Ahhhhh, I feel really happy.

    I love my family but their path is not my path. It was really hard for me to break free and fly. I held myself back because I was scared to outgrow them. But then I realized that I wasn’t doing anyone any favors by staying small.

    I still have some feelings of guilt…that I moved away but I trust that it was right and that somehow following my dreams will inspire them.

  255.  #255Daria on October 29, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    life –

    “he likes the drama” this is a thought (and a judgement). it carries energy. holding it is like holding up a sign that says you want that in your life

    H”ello, just to make sure, i want in my life that this man X likes the drama”


    for me, I look at it as… he Doesn’t like the drama. he;s a divine human, like me, And he would love to be honest and happy and healthy

    BUT, he is falling into old patterns and triggers. he has them like i do. and this seems to be one of them for him… he falls into this drama pattern


    I am a Goddess that heals him. I don’t want the drama… I want him! free of the drama. So i will keep accepting him, and saying NO to the drama

    It’s like i’m having a helping hand for him to get back on the path, everytime he falls off

    its like love and connection are the path, and drama is the ditches on the side

    “oops you fell into the drama again… that’s ok… and gosh it feels bad to get drama mud splashed on me… i don’t want that!!… well i’m NOT gonna fall there with you… thank gosh i’m less attracted to it than you… I am still here on the path, so my hand (warmth and openess) is available to get back on the path when you gather up out the ditch”

    this will help him heal himself… and being attracted to a h ealthy woman facilitates that… because she stays firmly on the path and its easier for him to See her, and go to her, than to get up on his own

    this means she absolutely must NOT blindly go in the drama with him (its ok if she falls in and gets back out dusting herself off – it happens)

    if he’s splashing too much mud on her, and it feels bad time and time again… she may leave him behind and he will have to get up out of there himself (she won’t be available) and chase after her on the path

  256.  #256Renee on October 29, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    Well, I think I blew that one…I gave him a feeling message about feeling bad to read about that woman being “as big as a house” and that I felt bad for people who had such big obstacles in their way to finding love. No response…was I being too picky or just putting a boundary in place? So hard for me to tell?

  257.  #257janjune on October 29, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    thanks daria… i probably just need to get over being bugged when men lean back 🙂

  258.  #258Dorothea on October 29, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    who cares why he’s not responding renee. don’t worry about that. you said something felt bad and it was a beautiful statement. he is probably just feeling like an idiot, or wishing you were less mature. BUT who cares.

  259.  #259Daria on October 29, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    Jean – yes I would tell them I want to be A wife, not Their wife…

    and to a man who proposes with future plans AND it feels good and comfortable for me

    wow! to the ring bearer!! hehe!! that would have felt Amazing (and very triggering and awkward)

    you’re doing Great

  260.  #260BarbinOz on October 29, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    #164 Nikita

    Why and how have you been secretly willing me to go home and for how long?

    (Can you tell I am a Gemini? 😀 )

  261.  #261Renee on October 29, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    Backtrack…he eventually wrote back and apologized…he apparently has a tendency to be crude, but he still seems kind of sweet…we’ll see…

  262.  #262Daria on October 29, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    Jean – ps … are you being honest with your feelings as to how attracted — as in NOT feeling very attracted yet — you are with these men?

    cause being honest with them this way can let them better gauge how to court you… so that they can start getting you attracted

  263.  #263Lucy on October 29, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    Boo hoo I wish I had a halloween party to go to. 🙁

  264.  #264Renee on October 29, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    Lucy — Me too. Blondie and I were going to go to this big Halloween party being held at the restaurant where we first met…oh, well.

    Is Mover Man still hanging around? Has he not asked you to do something this weekend?

  265.  #265Lucy on October 29, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    mover man is siena’s guy. i am in no-man’s land. unless you count 26 who has been texting all day begging me to come over and have sex in costumes for halloween.

  266.  #266Lucy on October 29, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    sorry about the lost plans with blondie. that sucks. 🙁

  267.  #267Renee on October 29, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    Oh — sorry. Got them confused…that’s what happens when I try to think on 2 hrs sleep, lol. Well, I guess I know someone else who may be available to chat on Siren Island tomorrow night, lol.

    None of the guys I’m in contact w/has said anything about this weekend…guess they’re all already otherwise engaged, either w/dates or kids or something. I really need a weekend of relaxation anyway, so I’m not too terribly bummed about it 🙂 .

  268.  #268Lucy on October 29, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    guy friend from college said he’d say come along with him to his friend’s party if i didn’t live so far away. it’s an hour and a half. i would drive that if he invited me for real. it sounds like a fun party – at an old farmhouse in the woods – bonfire, food and “libations” (his word). it’s tomorrow night.

  269.  #269Lucy on October 29, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    i am watching the tv show “how i met your mother” – been watching it a lot lately – it has lots of funny dating stuff in it that is pretty on-target and educational like this blog. i recommend it. 🙂

  270.  #270BarbinOz on October 29, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    #239 LG

    Wow inspirational indeed!! Just what I needed to hear today when I am thinking of selling up and arriving in England with very little and starting up all over again, I am a bit scared as I am not getting any younger. Thank you LG. I am so glad it all worked out well for you and your sister is better.

    I LOVE Hawaii, I have been there 5 times and hope to go again one day 🙂

  271.  #271Renee on October 29, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    If you really think you’d have fun, I might think about making the drive. You really don’t have much to lose (assuming this isn’t a guy you have any interest in) and it might be a blast!

  272.  #272BarbinOz on October 29, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    #247 Jean

    Looks like you are working the RR programme too well, so funny!!

    How did you handle the man with the proposal and the ring???!!!!!!

  273.  #273Lucy on October 29, 2010 at 6:28 pm

    i’m not interested in him and i know i would have a blast (he is fun and sounds like his friends are too) – but he said IF i wasn’t so far away… so maybe he doesn’t really want me to come… or maybe he does and is attracted to me and doesn’t want to appear eager … who knows… hoping he’ll invite me for real. 🙂

  274.  #274BarbinOz on October 29, 2010 at 6:28 pm

    #246 Dorothea

    I don’t know your “story” but WOW!! You have come a long way and should be so proud of youself. 🙂

  275.  #275BarbinOz on October 29, 2010 at 6:30 pm

    #245 Renee

    Why the hell would anybody send a date a pair of panties, small OR extra large????!!!

    The mind boggles………(googly eyed icon needed here!)

  276.  #276LonePlum on October 29, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    Brenda 161+ 181

    I will not get into gossip mode and tell you what is best for Ryan. I don’t know him.
    Besides on this page we do not worry about what goes in the man’s side.
    We learn to own our place with dignity and to know what we want.
    I will not turn into blaming mode either, not on Rori’s page.
    I am only treating the situation explained in your post. I do it because you asked us to do it

    YOU told Franny you are addicted to imposing yourself to Ryan and YOU asked her to help you respect yourself.
    Deep down you want to heal, you want to stay away as long as you can
    You do your best
    Then the craving overwhelms you and you call Franny
    She is OK with it, she does her job, she STOPS you, she keeps YOU safe

    Franny was doing what YOU asked her to do. It is not a question of differences of opinion. It is not her trying to impose on you her will.
    Franny did not abuse you emotionally.
    She was stopping you from drinking from the poisonous bottle. You asked her to do it. You did not like it and you pushed her out through the window, to make sure you could drink.
    YOU are the one who hurt her that night.
    You did not respect her feelings, you cared only for your own instant need.
    Don’t feel guilty, it is part of your condition.
    But come back to baby stepping and read this

    You have to understand you can’t tell her all of a sudden, it is just a question of difference of opinions
    You can’t tell her that, not after she spent hours of her life helping you with it.
    She gave her soul, her strength to convince you to respect Ryan’s peace and to respect yourself.
    She can’t gladly hear you saying that she is abusing you emotionally
    You are having a tantrum, Brenda
    I know, it is part of your condition
    I am asking you to do your tantrum in your home, to stomp your feet, to scream and all you want, then to breath
    get under you cover in your bed and sink into your feelings.
    What did you REALLY feel when she reacted to your call?
    Why did you hanged on your angel guardian?
    You hired her to stop you, then you hanged on her when she stops you
    It is the reaction of an addict who kills to have his poisonous bottle

    Franny is doing what Rori wants us to do to a man. She loves you but you are not treating her good, you are not owning your own reactions towards her and she won’t take bad treatment. You are blaming her and she does not have to take it. She was helping you on your own demand.

    Don’t make it about her stuff
    It is not about her stuff, she was not expressing any emotional abuse against you. She was not expressing anything about her own child hood either.
    She was being practical, she was taking the bottle from your hand and you did not like it because you were going through the equivalent of a delirium tremens.

    But it is time for you to own you reactions, Brenda. Don’t try to turn it around to find a way to justify whatever you did. Don’t make her wrong for you to feel right.
    That’s how couples divorce.
    You try to be right no matter what and you think you are practicing to stand for yourself
    Sometimes we do stupid things and that’s all it is: stupid
    They are not important, they are only stupid
    we admit we did them and be it
    no guilt
    In this case, it was not exactly stupid, it was a reaction coming from a craving place.
    But all the same, you need to own your reaction

    There is no way to be gentle when it is about telling a person she can’t have her drugs;
    Franny has no other choice than telling you “NO”
    there is no gentle way to make you accept “no”
    you don’t want to accept “no”
    it is YOUR staff, not Franny’s staff.
    You see things the way around
    You told her she could have talked in a different way
    That’s what women, do. We accuse the men to be the meany.
    Women want the men to change, it is easier than own our reactions.
    It is YOU who could have reacted a different way
    Remember? We don’t try to make the other change. We change ourselves.
    you were supposed to sink in your feelings, not to hang on her
    you were supposed to say
    “i feel so much the crave that I am mixing up your voice and my hurt, please help me, can you take a different voice, just to see if I can surf on your soft voice and forget Ryan tonight? “
    and if she had still say
    “no, I don’t want to speak softly, I am pissed off because I feel unheard, I feel dismissed, unimportant, no matter how much I work with you to keep you out of the bottle, you keep drinking in my back”
    That would be it Brenda.
    Take it as a chance to learn how to be with a man.
    You must learn to respect the man’s right to not feel what you want him to feel.
    That’s what we are all learning here Brenda.

    You really don’t have to feel ashamed or guilty.
    Not one siren here can handle the tools 100% in real life.
    Take the fight with Franny as a chance to learn how to shift a fight with a man.
    But you need to own your reactions, don’t make up that weird things about Franny expressing personal subconscious staff in her anger. Loool
    No, she was pissed off because you drunk from the forbidden bottle.
    Don’t see anything else to it.
    She could have been softer, she usually is, and she was not that night.
    Don’t you love her? Can’t you allow her to feel pissed off?
    When you hanged on her, you were undergoing your craving crisis, it is OK
    But you are back to normal, stop it, stop blaming her.
    She felt pissed off because she spent hours on helping you to stay away.
    She is only human, she owns the right to feel weak and tired at times and to feel pissed off.
    It is OK for her to be pissed off
    You can love her when she is pissed off.
    Don’t manipulate her into believing she should not be pissed off.
    It is very healthy to be pissed off when our work is not acknowledged.
    Anyway, her way to speak is her own staff, you can’t FORCE people to speak the way you like.
    You could have said
    “I understand Franny, I pushed you way too far. You feel I don’t value your help when I call Ryan. Thank you for putting up with so much. I will try to hear your impatient voice and not feel bad about it. Your angry voice sounds like voices of my past and reminds me of emotional abuse, but it is my own staff, it does not come from you Franny. I know your angry voice says you are emotionally drained by what I asked you to do for me. I don’t want you to feel emotionally drained by me. I want you to be stronger for me; But I love you and accept you for the strong helping loving friend you have always been, and I will try my best to not judge you when you get pissed off and to accept you when you are pissed off. I feel scared you won’t love me any more when you are pissed off., I want you to always agree with me, but I accept I can’t change the world, I can’t make you agree with me. I hired you to help me see I am wrong, I will try to hear you when you tell me I am wrong although I feel I am right“

  277.  #277Bella on October 29, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    Please Help Sirens. I feel like I made a big mistake. My ex who I haven’t seen or talked to in months just asked to “friend” me on facebook. . . .I felt excited when I saw his name, and I hastily accepted before sorting through my feelings. I wrote a note when I accepted that it felt good to hear from him. He wrote me back with just a basic update on his life and how am I, and I wrote back again with feeling messages, and now he has not responded to me. I feel just like I’ve rewound my entire progress by doing this. . . .I feel ignored by him once again and sad and lonely and I feel regret that I accepted his friend request.
    What is the best way to tell him how I am feeling and that I don’t want to be his friend? I feel like an idiot right now. . . .
    Thank you.

  278.  #278Laughing Goddess on October 29, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    Barb: I feel so good hearing that you feel inspired by my story.

    I had a lot of help.

    If this person is really willing to buy you a ticket and you feel comfortable with it, I would go for it.

    How are you feeling about it right now?

  279.  #279BarbinOz on October 29, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    #275 LG

    Oh no I am not taking this man’s money, no way, although I CERTAINLY do appreciate his random act of kindness to a complete Internet stranger. What a lovely man he must be, hey maybe he is a RR messenger!!!!

    I am thinking of selling up my furniture, car etc. getting what money I can together………I don’t know yet, I am REALLY REALLY scared about doing this at my age, yet I did it last year, but then I had my stuff in storage here, my car with my daughter and I had some money as a back up but that is all gone now as I was unemployed for 3 months when I came back here and my last few $3000 went into moving into this place, bond, advance rent, removals etc….and I know it’s only money and the Universe will look after you and all that, but still it is SCARY as hell but since my last few weeks and what has happened it has made me really confront my feelings about living here in Australia.

    I wrote on my ex pat blog last night that I feel every day that my soul is dying a little more, and I have been going through the motions living here ya know, putting all my energy into my new job, getting this flat nice and all that, but my heart isn’t really here at all, maybe that’s why I haven’t really done the CD thing, because what if I met an Aussie man and we got serious then that would mean I would have to live here FOR EVER…..and I don’t want to……….this is me riffing as well here, so please feel free to scroll down LOL!!

  280.  #280Laughing Goddess on October 29, 2010 at 7:47 pm

    Barb: I’m happy to listen to your feelings. I totally understand if you don’t feel comfortable taking that man’s money. I’m just sayin tho’…sometimes help comes in unexpected ways. 🙂

  281.  #281BarbinOz on October 29, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    #277 LG

    Yes I hear you, I feel the Universe is listening to me 😀

  282.  #282life_is_too_short_to... on October 29, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    253 Daria
    Everything you wrote there is perfectly right on.

    Part of me does not want to get involved because it may be a lot of work invested. A friend of mine who i respect, just got engaged said “relationship takes a lot of work”. I have a fear that he may just turn around and fall in love with someone else and take all my energy with him.
    First of all, this may be an unfounded fear, a projection, in my imaginary mind.
    Part of me says, so what if that were to happen, why be selfish? Apparently, I am learning something major here too, and there are never any guarantees.

  283.  #283life_is_too_short_to... on October 29, 2010 at 9:26 pm

    244 Thanks, Renee
    I’m really glad that book was helpful for you.

    I just don’t know if for me it is what I really need right now. It might be more stuff to think about and project and imagine. I have a masters in that already!

    I like something i heard marianne w. say about how the more stuff we put on top of the magnet, the less pull it has.

    I think my main focus really needs to be to continue to get more deeply in touch with my own authentic feelings and express those through the boundaries that come from them, using Rori tools. also I unearthed a book I have called The Power of Focusing by Ann Weiser Cornell to help me with this.

    I just have a feeling that the reason I am not walking away right now is that i still have something to learn through the interaction, and its a good field to practice Rori tools.

    I’m still going to work on CDing too

  284.  #284Senior Lady Vibe on October 29, 2010 at 10:02 pm

    @273: BarbinOz says:
    #245 Renee

    “…Why the hell would anybody send a date a pair of panties, small OR extra large????!!!
    The mind boggles………(googly eyed icon needed here!)…”

    I was wondering about that… 😳 😯 🙄

    : oops : = 😳
    : shock : = 😯
    : roll : = 🙄


  285.  #285Senior Lady Vibe on October 29, 2010 at 10:19 pm

    @ 276: BarbinOz says:
    …”am thinking of selling up my furniture, car etc. getting what money I can together………I don’t know yet, I am REALLY REALLY scared about doing this at my age, yet I did it…”

    No reason to wait until you are older… 😆 Be happy. It will work out. There is probably some guy there for you…looking around for you…doesn’t know you are on your way.


  286.  #286Shelly on October 29, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    Someone help me! My new boyfriend who has been talking of marrying me! yeah Rori all your tools have been working! This man says he’s never had a connection with anyone like me! I’m so excited and falling hard. So what’s the problem??? We are different religions. He wants me to convert or no deal. He said if I was Christian (I’m Jewish) he would get the priest and marry me tomorrow. I asked what does that mean? (I wasn’t sure if he means he wants me to convert or that I’m just not Christian.) I was about to ask him when he said he feels sick and he’ll call me tomorrow? I just gapped…then he said he needed to take a shower and will call me after…ugh what do I do? I’m freaking out!!!!

  287.  #287Shelly on October 29, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    thanks for the heads up BarbinOz

  288.  #288Daria on October 29, 2010 at 11:54 pm

    yay!! I found a fun website to express my ghetto side! I love it!!

    it’s really hood!


    a website

    its called

    now i have another fun place on the net! people are not using rori concepts there – when it comes to cding … and it shows…

    but they are at least using the concepts of boundaries…and putting yourself first… mostly…

    I’m gonna start expressing the way I see things… and learn to say it succinctly in a way hood people can get

    I would love to be able to easily get thru to my patnas all these love ideas… so they don’t bounce off their filters

  289.  #289Rosa on October 30, 2010 at 12:01 am

    LITS #233
    baggagereclaim got me unhooked after 5 years. I found the power was in the Mr Unavailable book. It was lengthy and substantial. I really needed to see the game called by a neutral party , exactly as it is . It was the recognition that someone could write about my experience and intimately describe the dynamics , and my feelings,that was VERY confronting. I thought my enduring , loyal , unrequited love was special and unique dammit…!!! WRONG. I felt so angry when i read how i had been trained to roll over on command and my expectations had been “managed down” over time causing an erosion of my self care and self respect.

    I could only read bits at a time while I processed, but by the time I got to the end , including a long section about the person who engages with the emotionally unavailable one , ie me, I felt very much healed of my erstwhile addiction.

    I found that Roris work laid an excellent foundation , including feeling feelings, and owning them, and tie him on the back of the horse and ride on. And the circular dating is an excellent excellent recovery tool . I feel really well prepared for a new way of relating in the future. I feel calm and balanced , DESPITE my breast cancer.

    I am loving my breasts , and I am feeling joy and relief its low grade and I get to keep my hair , no chemo. AND I am recognising I really dont want the ex unavailable guy near me.The thought of him arriving with grapes at my bedside feels icky and wrong. I feel my stomach churning .He wrote he will “come and find me” when he gets to Sydney mid month . He discounted my fears and sadness over the cancer , just said “you are strong , you will be ok” He is so damn unavailable ! I dont want him “managing down” my expectations and walking over my feelings ever again.I want men who can talk about emotions and life and feel comfortable around me.

    My lunch date with the radiologist went really well .I felt at ease and protected. I hope he makes another date before my surgery.

  290.  #290Daria on October 30, 2010 at 12:12 am

    Yay Rosa!!

  291.  #291Rosa on October 30, 2010 at 12:15 am

    On the subject of this blog, it occurs to me that many men with girlfriends use casual dating with others as a way of remaining uncommitted , like a safety hatch .So inside they know they arent “trapped” with the girlfriend who is their number one. For this reason I would be very, very careful dating anyone with a regular GF , as he is demonstrating clearly he is unable to commit to being exclusive with her , or equally to being available for you.

    I think dating someone with a GF for me would mean I was engaging in an inherently unavailable dynamic again. I would be the fallback girl , one of a whole bunch more than likely. Its not aboutthe GF’s feelings , its about MINE. If he says hes leaving her then let me see his commitment. See if he can commit to leaving.
    Because if he cant do that he sure as s*it cant commit to staying exclusively with a woman either!
    At best he would be CD practice to learn how to spot these guys and early red flags .

    I feel triggered by those who feel a sense of “entitlement”in their GF title to keep other women off their man . Again , if he is committed to you its irrelevant and if the thought makes you feel insecure then maybe one of you is not so committed 🙂

    What do you all think?

  292.  #292Rosa on October 30, 2010 at 12:17 am

    Daria , Hi.

    Do you feel interested to date men with GF’s for practice?

    I love your opinions , you spice up the flavour around here I have noticed.

  293.  #293Rosa on October 30, 2010 at 12:31 am

    Wow Jean , I’m going where you are 🙂

    I think maybe it would be possible to say an interim
    feeling speech if they seem keen.

    ” I feel good dating you and getting to know you better. For now i dont want to be an exclusive girlfriend because in the long term I want to be the right mans wife. It would feel good easing into that kind of relationship in stages . I dont want to rush things and suggest we keep our options open while we explore each stage. What do you think ? “

  294.  #294Daria on October 30, 2010 at 1:01 am

    Rosa – I don’t ever inquire about a man’s relationship with another woman. So I wouldn’t know if there are other women out there thinking they are his girlfriend…

    if there were… and say … called my phone at midnight and hung up, or texted me.. “i am johnnys gf” I would still date him…

    I might feel weird and annoyed and tell him so. depending on his response and how I felt about that.. i’d still date him or not

    I don’t believe in the title girlfriend boyfriend.

    If a man came to ME… and TOLD me I have a girlfriend

    I would tell him “get the fu*ck out of here – what the hell do you think that is gonna Impress and win me??”

    lol nah

    I would say… wow that feels really weird. I feel totally turned off… I don’t want to date a man unless I feel special and not second class. And I DON’T want to hear about other women.. EVER…

    if he managed to make me feel good after that… he must have some game



    who are living with a woman, and/or wives, that I know of…

    that theres mutual sexual attraction

    I might sexperiment if he initiates and I feel like sexperimenting

    but I don’t know that I’d feel safe…

    I might feel safe letting him go down on me, but I feel unsure of sex sex at this point… i don’t think i’d feel good


    either way I see the world as that Rori exercise

    where my man is zeroed in on me, beaming me arrows of love

    and i open

    and then add in other men, and other women into the imagining

    and continue feeling him zeroing in on me… even when other women are talking to him, etc etc… even when his back is turned


    there’s nothing in my world but me, in my Goddess place… and the men who come to worship at my Goddess altar… and if their gifts and worship feel good… they are accepted

    but I get very turned off if they were to bring another woman up… so that would NOT be accepted

    i just don’t SEE other women. they are not in my vision. All I see is Men who come to me, and how I FEEL receiving whta they offer me


    today I had to tell a guy online

    *takes bullhorn and yells* I DONT DATE MARRIED MEN

    because he keeps whining to me

    hes like… oh i could pay you 1000$ a month…

    im like… i feel confused… is this after you’re no longer married??

    then i told him … well it would feel cool if my 50 dollar phone bill was paid

    he tried to tell me tht if i agreed to date him my phone Would be paid

    ha! wow i feel amused and judgemental

    i don’t like being manipulated

    i told him people pay my stuff because im love

    hes like hope that works out for you


    all i have to do is ask one of the men that like me to pay it

    but im not really asking… becaues i dont want to reach out… id rather let what comes come to me… it feels better… and i can Be Surprised

  295.  #295Rosa on October 30, 2010 at 1:13 am


    “i just don’t SEE other women. they are not in my vision. All I see is Men who come to me, and how I FEEL receiving whta they offer me”

    Daria rock !!!! When I read that i felt so happy , amused , smiley . I love that Goddess attitude .
    Thats what I want. I want to feel 100% Goddess and amazing and ready to be surprised by gifts of love (or money:))

    “If a man came to ME… and TOLD me I have a girlfriend
    I would tell him “get the fu*ck out of here – what the hell do you think that is gonna Impress and win me??”

    I agree totally. Like why would a Goddess need to date someone else’s left overs??


  296.  #296Senior Lady Vibe on October 30, 2010 at 1:17 am

  297.  #297Daria on October 30, 2010 at 1:20 am

    Hehe… Thanks Rosa!

  298.  #298Rosa on October 30, 2010 at 1:54 am


    Loved the vibe in that song , all heels and skirt swishing!

    This is how I am going to be loved. This Goddess awaits the man who would write me that letter.

  299.  #299Honey on October 30, 2010 at 1:57 am

    OMG! It happened again!

    Went out on a first date with Mr. Richie who turned out to be a really great guy, He is highly involved in children’s charities – we really connected over this. Anyway, we were having this great date and he kissed me. Then we kissed for a long time, during which time he attempted to “explore the landscape”, which I interrupted by moving his hands and telling him to quit it. I wasn’t mad cuz I figured, like Daria has told me, he was just being a guy. And then it happened…he put my hand on his cock-a-doodle-do! This time I didn’t say anything and just moved my hand away. To be honest, this time I wanted to laugh. I kept thinking, “Wait until I tell the Sirens…this must be some kind of world’s record!” I must be doing something to encourage this, so I decided that the next time a guy pulls this, I’m just going to flat out ask him why. Although I think the reason varies. This time, I think he was just having some wishfull thinking. (But it was to no avail) LOL

    I love kissing so much

  300.  #300Rosa on October 30, 2010 at 2:26 am

    One hot woman there!
    Honey I would rather consider it a compliment to your attractiveness . Time for a feeling statement

    ” I feel soooo much better..”
    (lifting your hand and his off offending organ ..)

    “when YOU hold on to ME ..”
    (placing his hand on your ? hip ? shoulder ..wherever you are comfortable)

    “and we take it long and slow getting to know each other. What do you think?”

    I tried this recently when sexperimenting with my “life force date” after my cancer diagnosis.
    He actually said ” I think you think too much” although I had said feeling statements only.
    I had no idea what to reply! Said something like “id rather feel comfortable” 🙂

  301.  #301Renee on October 30, 2010 at 4:41 am

    Rosa — You expressed my reaction to the ebook from BaggageReclaim so much better than I did! To see the dynamics laid out without the cloak of b.s. was so enlightening! Like you, I felt my situation, my love, my relationship was unique and this man’s fears were unique — but they’re not and this book made me see that.

    Andy hooray for you w/feeling sireny and powerful despite your illness! You are doing so wonderfully with this whole situation — I only pray that if I were in your situation, I would handle it as well as you are.

    Do you think being faced with your own mortality caused a shift of some type in your perception of your life and relationships?

  302.  #302Renee on October 30, 2010 at 4:48 am

    Barb & SLV — Yes, the sending the panties thing was very weird in and of itself, but that was why he was sharing it — I had asked him what the strangest/funniest online date he’d ever had was and that experience was apparently the strangest one he’d ever had, lol.

    I asked him if that alone didn’t set off some red flags when she did that even prior to the date and he said he had wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt, lol, but of course, he showed up and apparently she had lied quite a bit about her appearance (as well as some other significant things, according to him). I didn’t ask him if he managed to stick it out for the whole date or not — not sure if I would continue to grace someone with my presence if something similar happened to me. I mean, it seems like shaving a few years off your age is one thing — shaving 50 lbs off your weight is another. What do you think?

  303.  #303life_is_too_short_to... on October 30, 2010 at 5:28 am

    Rosa: I have to go to work and can’t write more right now, but Rosa, I am sending you a very big hug and good vibe.
    You are an inspiration and thank you so much for sharing here.
    Between what you and Renee said, I may re-consider taking a look at that book.
    Good luck with radiologist and keep us posted!


  304.  #304BarbinOz on October 30, 2010 at 6:35 am

    #286 Rosa

    It feels so good to hear from you and your breasts 😀 I was just thinking of you today and how you are doing……….I like the radioligist more than I like the unavailable man………..hope you are doing good……

    Barb xx

  305.  #305BarbinOz on October 30, 2010 at 6:54 am

    So many youtube links here I thought I should share with you the man I am really in love with, yay to Mr Stevie Wonder……….I blame him for my being so romantic LOL!!

    Did you know that true love asks for nothing? Her acceptance is the way we pay. Did you know that life has given love a guarantee to last through forever and another day? Just a time knew to move on since the beginning , and the season know exactly when to change. Just as kindness knows no shame, oh through all your joy and pain I’ll be lovin’ you always

  306.  #306BarbinOz on October 30, 2010 at 7:04 am

    #299 Renee

    I think shaving 50lbs off your weight and sending teenie weenie small panties is pushing the envelope a little too far LOL!

  307.  #307Honey on October 30, 2010 at 9:40 am

    Barb –

    I love Stevie Wonder too. Always have, always will

    Rosa –

    Thanks for the advice. I did something like what you said in relation to the cock-a-doodle-do.

    Men sure can get grabby once you start kissing. All of a sudden they are thinking about how to separate you from your close and start talking sex. Fortunately I have no problem saying when I don’t want something or am not ready for it.
    I just wonder if most guys do this all the time. Or maybe it’s cuz I like kissing too much and they can feel that. When I am kissing a guy that I’m attracted to, and he’s really into it, too, I am totally in the moment. I love the sensuality of it, but don’t feel the need to take things farther.

    I have too many CDs in rotation. One is out of town at a conference…I am so relieved. lol I got home after 1:00 last night and there was an email from one CD at 11:30 and I get a text at 2:00 am from another CD asking if I’d like to go to a Halloween dance party – that would be a blast if I can work out the logistics with my kids and their Halloween activities.

  308.  #308Senior Lady Vibe on October 30, 2010 at 10:15 am

    @295: Rosa says:
    Loved the vibe in that song , all heels and skirt swishing!…”

    I like the words also! All about loving ourselves and making changes in the way we think and do things.

    “Runnin’ hot, runnin’ cold
    I was runnin’ into overload, it was extreme
    I took it so high, so low
    So low, there was nowhere to go, like a bad dream

    Somehow the wires uncrossed, the tables were turned
    Never knew I had such a lesson to learn

    I’m feelin’ good from my head to my shoes
    Know where I’m goin’ and I know what to do
    I tidied up my point of view
    I got a new attitude!

    I’m in control, my worries are few
    ‘Cause I’ve got love like I never knew
    I got a new attitude!

    I’m wearing a new dress, new hat
    Brand new ideas, as a matter of fact I’ve changed for good

    It must have been the cool night, new moon, slight change
    More than to figure, oh but I feel like I should, yes!

    Somehow the wires uncrossed, the tables were turned
    Never knew I had such a lesson to learn

    I’m feelin’ good from my head to my shoes
    Know where I’m goin’ and I know what to do
    I tidied up my point of view
    I got a new attitude!

    I’m in control, my worries are few
    ‘Cause I’ve got love like I never knew
    I got a new attitude!

    I got a new attitude!

    Somehow the wires uncrossed, the tables were turned
    Never knew I had such a lesson to learn

    I’m feelin’ good from my head to my shoes
    Know where I’m goin’ and I know what to do
    I tidied up my point of view
    I got a new attitude!

    I’m in control, my worries are few
    ‘Cause I’ve got love like I never knew
    I got a new attitude!

    I’m feeling good!
    From my head to my shoes!

    Everything about me has changed!

    Baby I ain’t the same
    (I got a new attitude!)…”

  309.  #309Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 10:26 am

    Honey and others – I am wondering how/where you find so many guys that are attractive to you. I am curious about whether or not I would find the same guys to be attractive. Would you want to post some of their usernames from match or pof so I can satisfy my curiosity?

    I feel sad that the 2-3 men I like are the ones who aren’t into me.

    I feel a lil hopeless today. It seems like I’ll never get a man I actually want. 🙁

  310.  #310Senior Lady Vibe on October 30, 2010 at 10:32 am

    @299: Renee says:
    “Barb & SLV — Yes, the sending the panties thing was very weird in and of itself, but that was why he was sharing it — I had asked him what the strangest/funniest online date he’d ever had was and that experience was apparently the strangest one he’d ever had, lol…”

    It seemed strange to me too…and funny! 😆 I know you were offended by his calling the date woman “big as a house” but as I read it, it didn’t seem mean-spirited but rather a literary enhancement to the story-telling and his sense of humour. I like a man with a sense of humour and this seemed to me to be only that.

    I wonder if the woman did this panty maneuver in an attempt to instigate attraction of some kind…? 😯


  311.  #311Senior Lady Vibe on October 30, 2010 at 10:34 am


    I’m exploring the Baggage Reclaim dot co dot UK site and it’s giving me some eye-opening info! Seems right on!


  312.  #312Senior Lady Vibe on October 30, 2010 at 10:38 am

    @296: Honey says:

    “…And then it happened…he put my hand on his cock-a-doodle-do! “

    No! And on the first date! Where were you when he did this? In the restaurant???

    Interesting research… 😆


  313.  #313Senior Lady Vibe on October 30, 2010 at 10:41 am

    @303: BarbinOz says:
    “#299 Renee
    I think shaving 50lbs off your weight and sending teenie weenie small panties is pushing the envelope a little too far LOL!”

    In my mind’s eye, it was about 100 lbs! 😆


  314.  #314Senior Lady Vibe on October 30, 2010 at 10:43 am


    Amazing how life brings good and bad in our lives. Your radiologist seems interesting and sweet…a little forward perhaps… What do you think? Otherwise “loverly?”

    Feel well.


  315.  #315Senior Lady Vibe on October 30, 2010 at 10:58 am

    Am I here by myself this afternoon? Well… OK… CD me…

    @302: BarbinOz says:
    “…yay to Mr Stevie Wonder……….I blame him for my being so romantic LOL!!..”

    Oh, the Stevie Wonder was so nice…I’ve not heard it in a while….Now I feel all lovey. And this is my season–Autumn! I have Great Expectations…

    Stevie Wonder — “As” (1976)


  316.  #316Renee on October 30, 2010 at 11:11 am

    Barb — I couldn’t imagine what that woman was thinking with the panty maneuver, lol. I mean, I’ve heard of slipping your boyfriend/husband your panties when you’re at a party or something to let him know you’re “in the mood”, but I can’t imagine sending a total stranger your underwear!! Of course, the question that’s been in my mind since last night is: how did she know his address to send it to? He’s supposed to call me today, so I think I’ll ask him that 🙂 .

  317.  #317LonePlum on October 30, 2010 at 11:15 am


    The no chemo news is fantastic.
    Hurray to joy and relief 🙂

    You go girl!

  318.  #318LonePlum on October 30, 2010 at 11:18 am

    SLV 309


  319.  #319LonePlum on October 30, 2010 at 11:20 am

    SLV 307

    “”””I wonder if the woman did this panty maneuver in an attempt to instigate attraction of some kind…?


    lol lol lol

  320.  #320Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 11:23 am

    Okay, I confess, I’m the girl who did the panty maneuver.

  321.  #321Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 11:23 am


  322.  #322LonePlum on October 30, 2010 at 11:34 am


    ha ha ha
    May be they are simply guiding you in your research? Like a thesis director?
    “here my child, a direct approach of the subject is requested, don’t beat around the bush”

  323.  #323LonePlum on October 30, 2010 at 11:47 am


    I was thinking of you, alone in a strange land.
    I was wondering. Did you go to Australia to be closer to your son or did you arrive there together?

  324.  #324Honey on October 30, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    Barb #276 –

    My Armenian grandfather once sent a young Armenian man back to the old country to visit his family. My grandfather was not wealthy, and met the guy at a park, but felt compassion for his homesickness. The man never even thanked my grandpa, but he was glad he sent him anyway.

    There really are some angels out there…

  325.  #325Honey on October 30, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    SLV #309 –

    Not in the restaurant! No. We were kissing in his car (very cute yellow Porsche. heehee).

    I’m starting to think I shouldn’t kiss a guy until the 2nd or 3rd date, and then maybe only a peck. I think passionate kisses send the WRONG MESSAGE! Why didn’t someone teach me this stuff when I was a girl? What are you SUPPOSED to do to send a message, “I’m attracted to you, but don’t want sex or anything close to it” Does passionate kissing on the first or second date mean a girl is hot to troll?

  326.  #326Senior Lady Vibe on October 30, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    @317: Lucy says:
    “Okay, I confess, I’m the girl who did the panty maneuver.”

    LOL 😆

  327.  #327LonePlum on October 30, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    Rori’s post reminds me of the family who hosted me in the USA, when I was a kid.
    The father, and excellent man, told me that:

    He had a work accident and spent times at the hospital.
    He lost a leg
    His girl friend would visit him every day
    There was that nurse .
    She had lost an eye but he had not noticed, she had a pretty good glass eye
    The minute she stepped in his room….he felt connected to the nurse

    Almost no other nurse was coming in his room. It was her, most of the time.
    He was suspicious she had changed the nurses planning herself to be the one in charge of him.
    He loved it, he felt his life drive busted back up.

    His energy was soon all shifted into her
    But they never said or acted about it
    She was being professional
    He was being a patient

    He told the girl friend her visits were not brightening his days any more. It could be a sign they were done.
    The girl friend stopped visiting him

    He left the hospital
    Within the month, he started a new business and came back to propose to the nurse
    They married

    The nurse was the mom of the family I was in and he was the dad. They spent the rest of their lives together.

    She giggled when he told me the story, she added:
    “I felt connected the minute I stepped in his room
    I would check the time his girl friend would visit and I would step in the room so they couldn’t be alone and I would say , “visitors time is over”
    I wanted her out of my wedding picture”

    (He is standing there, smiling, nodding his head “oh, I knew you were doing that, I was enjoying myself watching the whole thing happening”)
    She keeps telling her side of the story
    “Visitors time was obviously not over, yet he never complained.
    I felt he was my accomplice in my mischievous behavior
    The first day the girl friend did not show up I KNEW he had stepped in my wedding picture”

    They had 3 children and many grand children and great grand children and staid married until they died at the age of 86
    She died first and he followed her within 6 months.
    I spent a year with them, as an added daughter.
    I never heard her nagging, gossiping, complaining.
    I never heard him commenting her acts or personality other than to show me how good she was.
    They were so respectful and so polite, I did not hear a single fight during the whole year.
    Everybody’s needs was respected.
    I was stoned.

    They were the first adults who actually listened to me.
    I was expecting them to stand up any second and leave to get busy.
    But they never did. They actually were interested in all I had to say and they actually thought about what I said and would come up with it later.
    I felt important, I felt there was somebody inside me.

    Within the first month at their home, my monthly blood came back and depression became a forgotten word.
    They made me respectful of the respect they had for me.
    They made me curious of the curiosity they had for me.
    I respected myself, I felt myself interesting lol, really, I felt there was somebody inside me who had a value to bring to the family first, then to the school etc…. I felt useful. Before I knew it, I was giving love around as well. Depression was gone.
    I arrived as a shy little grey mouse and ended giving public speeches

    At the end of their life, Alzheimer changed Mom’s behavior.
    When the family would say ”Mom, we told you that already!”
    she would answer
    “I’ve got Alzheimer, have you forgotten?”
    He suffered a stroke and was paralyzed on the legless side of his body.
    He felt himself as a lucky man, and so did we. At least, he could still use his good leg
    But he started to use a wheel chair.
    That situation lasted a couple of years
    She would sometimes push his wheel chair out of the house and just keep going ahead of her, absent minded, shall we say.
    He was laughing saying “bye, we are going for a “walk”, God clear our path lol”
    He never got upset at it.
    He would try to talk her into taking him back, but not too heavily. At this point he was still careful that both their different needs would be met.

    Their daughter, the one who is the same age as me, the one I call my sister, she would tell me that on the phone, laughing.
    When I don’t feel too good, I go fetch the respect they put inside me, and I get back on my horse.
    Call it love, it is the same energy.

    All this to say, the girl friend probably felt Dad was a man of no word, no respect, not reliable. Probably a man she would not recommend. Her resentment against him is legitimate. Her feelings and time and energy wasted, from a second to another, with no rational explanation.

    Yet, Dad’s wife and children knew he was the most reliable man on earth.
    Me, an outsider, I know it too, I was saved by his for ever unconditional love.

  328.  #328Senior Lady Vibe on October 30, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    322: Honey says:
    @SLV #309
    >i>”I think passionate kisses send the WRONG MESSAGE! “

    Not as much as the “panty maneuver.” LOL But I think it does…how passionate could one be on a first date unless one was already kinda “warm?” It takes the emphasis off “getting to know you” unless it’s in the Biblical sense… doesn’t it?

    Or maybe doesn’t matter, depends on the two people and circumstance.

    Maybe more kissing on a first date if guy is long distance and there’d been a month or so of Skype-ing?

    Wondering…Let’s see what the sirens think?

    But I love the research…let’s see what happens.


  329.  #329Honey on October 30, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    LonePlum #324

    I love your posts more than anything! This time I will say you have much wisdom instead of calling you an “old soul”. LOL

  330.  #330Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    Anyone know Italian? I want to know what this means:

    Ciao e bona sera signorina


  331.  #331Honey on October 30, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    SLV #309 –

    Good reasoning. You know, I could just come right out and ASK him what kind of message he thinks I’m sending. I could tell him I’m doing behavioral research. I could say it with humor and definitely pull it off. Hmmmm….

  332.  #332Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Wow, loneplum, what an incredible story! wow just wow.

  333.  #333Honey on October 30, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Lucy #327 –

    I think it means “Hello or goodbye (depending on context) and good evening.”

  334.  #334Honey on October 30, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    signorina I think is “miss”

    so, “Hello and good evening, Miss.”

  335.  #335Daria on October 30, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    Lucy – it means goodbye and have a good evening lady

  336.  #336Daria on October 30, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    Im confused and feel a lil sad about this “wrong message” thing?

    what is the wrong message? i’m attracted and get turned on??

    i just might be a being that might at some point enjoy sex?

    i don’t get it

    passionate kisses feel wonderful and turn me on

    is it because of fear of being turned on??

    my guesss is its fear of not having the boundary of saying stop when i feel uncomfortable

    but i can say i feel uncomfortable at any point…

  337.  #337Daria on October 30, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    I feel triggered and angry

    who cares if he thinks shes hot to troll??

    are you? if yes… GREAT!!!

    I would be!! if it all felt right

    if not… then … stop!! and say hey… i feel uncomfortable… giggle

    the end

    he can think anything he wants… but its up to me what I do

    I think it comes down to judgements about sex

    and different men will react differently

    I personally DON’T feel turned on by a man who I am wanting More sexual agression from


    I LIKE feeling turned on by a man!

  338.  #338Luzy* on October 30, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    I feel lonely today. I have to let it out! I never admit it 😉

  339.  #339Daria on October 30, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    feeling angry and confused what this anger is about

  340.  #340Daria on October 30, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    I just SAY “I’m attracted to you, but I don’t want sex or anything close to it”

    that usually gives them the message

    if not, then… i would feel mad and say that too

    I feel angry and unheard. I feel disrespected. I’m gonna leave now

  341.  #341Daria on October 30, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    I feel angry!! (????))

  342.  #342Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Thanks for translating.

    I love being turned on by a guy too, Daria. I wish I could find more guys who I feel turned on by.

    I can feel turned on by almost any guy if I get into a zone of “being turned on by almost any guy” — BUT —

    I much prefer guys who turn me on without me having to go into that zone.

    Where are they??????

  343.  #343Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    Well, I know where two of them are. But they’re apparently not interested at this time.

    Where are the ones who are interested?

  344.  #344Senior Lady Vibe on October 30, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    327: Lucy says:
    Anyone know Italian? I want to know what this means:
    Ciao e bona sera signorina

    I’m not Italian but just looking at it: Goodbye (see you later), and good night, Miss (young lady)

    Did you ever use the Google language tool? Sometimes it’s fun.


  345.  #345Renee on October 30, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    Lucy — I didn’t want to let the cat out of the bag that it was you who did the panty maneuver, but since you admitted it 🙂 …

  346.  #346Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    Hmm. This friend of a friend on fb just sent me this message:

    “Hey, you might not know this but if your ever gonna flirt with me you Have to send a message to me….just saying cutie!! lol!!! ;-)”

    I don’t know if I WANT to flirt with him!

    If I wanted to flirt with him, I probably would have by now.

    What do you think?

    Probably sounds like a dumb question.

    But I hate to pass up a chance to flirt!!!

    Brenda dubbed me, “Lead’em-On-Lucy” the night we went to that party in Wilmington.

    I don’t know what to think about this.


  347.  #347Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    Hehe Renee. 🙂

  348.  #348Senior Lady Vibe on October 30, 2010 at 2:20 pm


    I just tried the Google translator but it came out terrible! What a disappointment.

    The Ciao could be also “hello” or “salutations” like “salut!”

    I better start brushing up on languages. Maybe Lone Plum could give you a good translation.


  349.  #349Daria on October 30, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    Lucy – I feel uncomfortable saying this.. cuz i have said it before several times… and I felt unheard…

    but i guess i would feel better to say it again… just in case

    When I started going out with lots of men that DIDN’T attract me… and practice Opening up to them… and finding a small thing about them that was attractive (maybe their shirt?)

    they a) started growing on me

    b) I started feeling attracted to a similar man to the original

    c) more Attractive men started popping up in my life


    so what I would do in your situation is go out with lots of not attractive men and focus on small things that may be attractive about them, while using the tools etc

    then you will find more and more men attractive (perhaps this feels scary?) and more attractive men will find you… because of the vibe

  350.  #350Daria on October 30, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    Lucy – I would say Lol and leave it at at that…

    i feel amused flattered and yet weird and kinda turned off (fem energy words… but masculine action… contacting you)

    I would feel so happy to see sirens drop the irrelevant concept of “leading men on”

    it’s very limiting to the mindset of a siren

    a Siren knows it’s impossible to lead a man on

    a Siren respects a man’s ability to approach her as much as he desires

    a Siren respects a man as a human who is in charge of his own actions and is able to make his own decisions

    a Siren receives… and tells the truth…

  351.  #351Daria on October 30, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    We;re supposed to STAY in that zone of being turned on by anything – it’s the Open Heart to the World Zone

    men who turn us on in a different way are just a reflection of past patterns… (which may be toxic)

    when we make New patterns… more men will turn us on naturally

  352.  #352Jennifer on October 30, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Here’s what I think and feel about it.
    I think…hey…if he’s living with a girl…even if he’s not so into her…how’s he gonna give me all his attention.
    So I wonder even about girl room mates.
    However…I think I might wait until I found out how I felt around him.
    Cause really. It’s none of my business whats going on in a man’s life…until we share a life.

    Now to turn myself into a hypocrite….
    I emailed B.
    It felt good to just say…Jen says yer on CAP..hope you are doing well, good luck.
    But now I feel bad.
    Cause he’s not doing well.
    The course isn’t over but they’re sending him back to his home unit.
    He thanked me for the support.
    He doesn’t know what they will do with him when he gets back. I don’t know if they will even keep him in the military
    I am just working on remembering that it’s none of my business.
    None at all.
    I got’s my own shit to deal with.

  353.  #353Jennifer on October 30, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Then I was feeling all like
    GEEZE…don’t tell anybody you contacted him.
    They’ll all be mad
    Now I’m coming round to the idea that …. ya know what?!?!?!?!
    I’m a siren.
    I CAN contact any man I want…for any reason I see fit.
    I can email B and not let him in my life.
    I can have those behaviors that feel good to me (wishing him luck on what I know is a difficult course) cause I FEEL like doing it…and not listen to those people who tell me I should have no contact with him.
    He’s on the damned horse…I can turn around and talk to him If I like
    I feel all rebellious.
    I feel like………HEY yer not the boss of me.

  354.  #354Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    Daria, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts even though you felt uncomfortable doing so.

    I think I have said this on here before —

    I have done exactly what you describe — a lot.

    That’s part of what I’m talking about with the zone thing — I can get an attracted feeling by going into that zone with a guy, but I have found that it does not translate into a lasting, good-feeling connection of REALLY being attracted and into that person over the long haul.

    My ex-h is a good example of this. I was not really attracted to him when we met, but he seemed like a good guy, and I was ready to get married and have babies, so I put myself in that zone and allowed an attraction to “grow” (kind of talked myself into it, like you described with the shirt example).

    However, when difficulties start coming up in a relationship, you realize you’re not all that attracted to the person anyway, and it makes it harder to work through stuff. For me, I have found that to be the case — not just with him, but with other men. The attraction is part of what makes you want to hang in there and work out the problems… it is a motivating force. If it’s not a visceral attraction in the first place, it kind of disappears when things aren’t going great.

    That’s what I have found anyway.

    What do you think?

  355.  #355Honey on October 30, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    Daria –

    I get what you’re saying about the “wrong message” thing. However, I see an additional way to look at this. Kissing, affection, etc. can also be viewed as a form of nonverbal communication. When I am trying to communicate with someone, whether verbally or nonverbally or whatever, it is appropriate to think about how that message is received. Many of my autistic clients have difficulty thinking this way. They know what they mean and think and don’t consider how the information is received or understood by the communication partner. It is not all up to the receiver to understand the communication. The communicator, if they want to communicate well, must be cognizant of how the receiver interprets what is said. If I say one thing with my words, but express something different with my body, that could be confusing to my communication partner and perceived at mixed messages. So what I’m trying to establish here is how is kissing in certain ways is LIKELY to be interpreted by most guys. That doesn’t mean I cannot do it. It just means that I need to be clear in my communication, especially in areas that are likely to be misunderstood, and perhaps deal with a potential area of misunderstanding in a proactive rather than reactive way. Being proactive can help me relax and enjoy the situation I’m in without having to establish a boundary AFTER something has occurred that I do not like.

    I’m tired and rambling. I hope what I’m thinking here makes sense.

  356.  #356Honey on October 30, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    Lucy –

    I have found the same thing. I can “let” myself be attracted to someone, and am experimenting with that in CDing. But is does not feel the same as it did with Hunky Man, where I almost felt a “buzz” all the time. I like that feeling where I want to be with him all the time.

  357.  #357Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    Just saw your next post…

    “men who turn us on in a different way are just a reflection of past patterns… (which may be toxic)

    when we make New patterns… more men will turn us on naturally”

    Right, that’s what I thought should happen, but it didn’t. For me. Your mileage may vary, as SLV would say.

    I didn’t really have a past pattern of attraction — I always dated different types of guys and was open to attraction growing, ever since I was young. I found that I was fooling myself (and them) by thinking it would happen that way. But I gave it another try over the past year — using Rori’s tools and ideas — and found it was still the case.

    It’s more like, my PAST pattern is: being open to all men growing on me.

    And my NEW pattern is: hold out for the one who you are really attracted to from the get-go. That would feel great! Much better than what I have done in the past!

  358.  #358Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    Honey — Yes — “I like that feeling where I want to be with him all the time.”

    Me too.

    I feel turned-on just looking at pictures of WH.

    I don’t want to be with a man that I don’t feel that with.

  359.  #359Honey on October 30, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    Lucy –

    That makes total sense. My past pattern is not so much is which type of guy I pick, as it is in WHAT I do after i find the guy I want.

  360.  #360Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    Honey, with the guy you kissed so passionately last night — was he one you “let” yourself feel attracted to, or the other kind? Just curious.

  361.  #361Daria on October 30, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    Lucy – what i see as one of your patterns is being attracted to interesting men who are not stepping up towards you

  362.  #362Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    Daria, I’m thinking now — maybe that whole concept you described applies to women who HAVE had patterns of attraction that were “off” and need to rewire that. And some women haven’t had that particular issue, so it doesn’t apply to them….

    Just like all the over-functioning stuff — some women never HAD a pattern of over-functioning in relationships, so they (unlike me 😉 ) don’t need to rewire THAT part.

  363.  #363Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    “Lucy – what i see as one of your patterns is being attracted to interesting men who are not stepping up towards you”

    Thanks, Daria. Yes, that is happening now. However, it never happened in the past (before my marriage).

    Also, I was first strongly attracted to them when they WERE stepping toward me. Then they stopped, but the attraction stayed.

    So it’s not that I am attracted to men who never stepped toward me at all.


    I appreciate you looking at this with me.

  364.  #364Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    Gotta go for now. Thanks again! <3

  365.  #365Senior Lady Vibe on October 30, 2010 at 3:24 pm


    “…I get what you’re saying about the “wrong message” thing…”

    Hi Honey, I was interpreting “wrong” as meaning NOT the message you intend to send as opposed to “wrong” simply meaning “bad” and you should never send it.

    Hmmm, does this make sense? In learning about this dating business I’ve noted people arrange meetings for all sorts of reasons and relationships. Maybe it doesn’t always matter but while I’m getting started (or make that “re-started”) I’d like to be clear with a stranger what the initial expectations are.

    Everything is subject to change of course…


  366.  #366Senior Lady Vibe on October 30, 2010 at 3:28 pm


    I guess I missed this part, kind of fine print. This is what I meant.

    <i?"So what I’m trying to establish here is how is kissing in certain ways is LIKELY to be interpreted by most guys. That doesn’t mean I cannot do it."


  367.  #367Luzy on October 30, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    How can someone circular date without online dating?
    I went out today smile at guys but none of them approached me. Guys now days are not as daring.

  368.  #368PassionatelyPisces on October 30, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    #636 (in last thread) SeniorLadyVibe writes:

    @605: PassionatelyPisces says:
    “…I still carry around a lot of shame about it and avoid meeting people because I absolutely dread being asked, “So what do you do?” or “Where do you work?” I’ve always been a very hard worker and this has really turned my world upside down….

    I check out the online dating stuff and it seems like a lot of men in my age group want a woman who is independent and “financially secure.” It’s really discouraging. I’m not saying ALL men want that, it’s just that I don’t even know how to deal with it…

    In some ways I feel like it’s none of their business unless I’m sure I want to get to know them a lot better…BUT what you do and/or where you work are pretty general questions—and it would seem odd for me not to want to answer them. (I would find it odd or think it was a ‘red flag’ if it were the other way around, ya know?) …”
    For the record, you ARE independent and you ARE “financially secure.” I don’t receive disability benefits but I live on a small income. I don’t feel bad about it at all! I don’t feel a need to define, to strange men, what that means to the penny. And in terms of world population I am probably one of the rich ones!

    Think about it…Would you feel bad if your family was above working class and could afford to have a trust fund for you? And you didn’t have to work for a living? If you spent your time doing what you wanted to do…what was it?… meditate (japa) …yoga and pilates every day…swim…eat well…color my hair and take great care of my skin (one of my ‘best’ features).

    What else do you like to do? Do you collect art? Make art? Rescue animals? Charities (volunteer work?) Politics? Write poetry? Attend university classes? Study medieval architecture? Write screenplays? Perform with theatrical group? These are your interests –”your career”…

    And that’s what you tell people because it’s the truth. Working class is highly overrated, yecch!

    So, to repeat and get this in your mind:

    If you were from a slightly aristocratic family (with a reversal of fortune) that had just managed to leave you a teeny, tiny trust fund, would you consider stretching it way out and living on it? Making family money your annual income so that you could live a life style doing what you want to do instead of being a drudge in some mundane job that soaked up all your time? I would! That’s how I live.

    That’s basically how you live too…isn’t it?

    The exact description and contents of your personal income/investment portfolio is none of anyone’s business certainly not some man you just met!

    You are a “rich woman” living on a small income… That’s how you look, right? Rich! And how your home looks, even though it might be a 150 square foot space. You have the time to make things that way…


    The guys you meet should be impressed with you and your lifestyle not the other way around! Hanging one’s head is something one chooses… dont!

    What is amazing is I find people who are overly concerned about becoming poor, ending up poor, whether or not someone else is poor, are often frightened mediocre people who maybe wear polyester clothes, live in ticky tacky housing with plastic flowers, eat low quality food, haven’t read a book in ten years etc. Again…yecch

    You’re better than that, aren’t you? If not, make it happen.

    PassionatelyPisces says:
    “Loneplum (#469) tells you to “feel sireny” about it. That’s the last thing I feel.

    If your thoughts and feelings are the real difficulty, change those. Get a new attitude…


    Thank you so much SLV! I wasn’t sure how long people will read/post on the last thread so I copied and pasted your reply to me here…

    I know you are right and I practice these things in my head constantly—but I’m kind of a wimp, sometimes, and need to hear things directly in order to feel OK about it. Like I needed to know I wouldn’t be judged here and that I can feel accepted and fit in after you knew the real truth about my situation.

    I had to chuckle about the polyester pants—because I do know people that live like that and don’t realize how much they’re missing out on in life. (Not because they work—but because they can’t/don’t want to see past the end of their noses.)

    And yes, I do have a nice looking house full of REAL plants (rented, but still) and a decent car, etc. I am thankful and ever so grateful every day for everything I have in my life. I am SO blessed in so many ways. Finding out about Rori and this blog is a special blessing, that’s for sure.

    LG: You’ve mentioned Abraham a few times. I have ‘Ask And It Will Be Given’ and I have the pages marked and paperclipped and highlighted. I use the ‘processes’ often. Sometimes I get so down I think I can’t—but there’s a process for that! 🙂 Of all the books, etc. out there about manifesting and abundance and “The Secret”, etc. I think AAIWBG is the most practical, how-to tool that I’ve come across.

    One of the best things I’ve learned from it is the idea that we can only start WHERE WE ARE AT. So the only thing we can do is to recognize how we feel and reach for that better-feeling thought. It only has to be a teensy bit better-feeling—-not a complete turnaround. And then baby-step from that… So simple, but it works every time 🙂

    Somebody mentioned the show ‘How I Met Your Mother’—I LOVE that show! It’s so funny—and yes, it points out a lot of things that Rori teaches. It’s oftentimes easier to learn something and accept the facts when we can laugh about it—laugh at ourselves! 🙂 Even though Barney is such a player and apparently “doesn’t do” relationship—he’s my favorite character on the show just because he’s so funny.

    Brenda, I hope you got my e-mails. I’m thinking of you and sending good thoughts your way.

    Ugh…I’m getting a migraine. I’m in that weird stage of life—peri-menopause. I haven’t had a real period since May but I still get symptoms every month and spot every once in awhile. It’s just as my doctor described it when I asked her about what to expect: She said it would be “just enough to be annoying.” That’s exactly what it is, too! 🙁

    I’m going to go lay down. I’ve had kids here since Wednesday (I love my granddaughters so much, but they wear me out.) Now that I have some quiet time, I’m going to use it wisely.


  369.  #369Tracey on October 30, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    Im new to this site and finding it very interesting and useful !!

  370.  #370Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    Hi Pisces! I’m the one who mentioned the show. Marshall has been my favorite — and I feel strangely attracted to him! — but Ted is really starting to grow on me — he’s a cutie. Did you see the halloween episode about the “slutty pumpkin”? I saw it last night — and thought about it tonight during my walk…. I feel like Ted, waiting for the right One to arrive — and he keeps getting these good starts that don’t work out, like me. I know it’s fiction, but I feel a lil hopeful knowing that Ted DOES eventually find and marry his dream girl.

  371.  #371Honey on October 30, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    Lucy –

    I initially did not feel that much chemistry with the guy last night. But I was very interested in getting to know him. He is involved in a few different philanthropies which made him interesting to me, because I’m looking for someone with similar core values. Also, he is very bright and direct about the fact that marriage and family are very important to him. His daughter called while we were at dinner, and the way he spoke to her made me think, “Wow. This is a step kinda guy.” I didn’t feel any chemistry until he actually kissed me, then, whoa…

    Still, I don’t feel that “connection” with him that I would like to feel. But I will be open to it. When I have felt that connection before, it has usually been with someone I have gotten to know through email and on the phone. I already feel emotional connection before we meet, so things fall into place. I’m not sure what will happen now. I’m just trying to be open to surprises.

    Wow! This is my rambling way of saying, “Yes, this is one of the guys I ‘let’ myself be attracted to.”

  372.  #372Honey on October 30, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    Ya know what totally sucks. When you THINK you finally find your Dream Guy, and he turns out to be a nightmare. I’m up there riding the fantasy train with Renee…I’m waiting for fairy dust and fireworks. And if it doesn’t happen the way I want, I try to FORCE it to happen…and we all know how THAT ends up. Sure am glad I found this site. I like Christian Carter’s stuff, too.

  373.  #373Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    Regarding leading on —

    “a Siren receives… and tells the truth…”

    Part of “telling the truth” is not just verbal, but in our actions….

    What I am coming to understand as “leading him on” = being truthful with words, while behaving as if I am more interested than I am (that is, NOT telling the truth with my actions, my non-verbal responses to him)

  374.  #374Honey on October 30, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    OK, so I’m going dancing with this great guy. He’s teaching me to dance and is such a gentleman (although he tried the old hand on the cock-a-doodle-do trick, too.) He was one without the initial “zing”, but I’m staying open to him cuz he’s such a totally great guy and one that would step up if was feelin’ it. And I do feel true friendship for him, and some attraction on a physical level as well. We went out last Spring, and reconnected recently and have been having a great time. But, OMG he totally cannot kiss! And I feel so shallow saying this. Yet it is important to me. I am a great kisser and I want someone who can match me. He makes me want to scream, “Can you loosen up and work with me here?!”

    What is my deal. Either I’ve got a guy who’s a great kisser but is all over me. Or he can’t kiss at all. I can hear Daria saying, “Take the passionate guy! He’s just being a man. Just use your feelings statements and have clear boundaries.”

    Still, I’m wondering how important this is in the long run.

  375.  #375Senior Lady Vibe on October 30, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    @364: PassionatelyPisces says:

    “…Somebody mentioned the show ‘How I Met Your Mother’—I LOVE that show! It’s so funny—and yes, it points out a lot of things that Rori teaches…”

    Oh, I had no idea! I haven’t been watching much television these days and I’ve never seen that show. I’ll tune in.

    SLV@364: PassionatelyPisces says:

    “…Somebody mentioned the show ‘How I Met Your Mother’—I LOVE that show! It’s so funny—and yes, it points out a lot of things that Rori teaches…”

    Oh, I had no idea! I haven’t been watching much television these days and I’ve never seen that show. I’ll tune in.


  376.  #376Senior Lady Vibe on October 30, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    I’ll watch it twice! 😆

  377.  #377tinque on October 30, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    Something to keep in mind is that some the best guys, the gems, may not make the greatest first impressions.
    As someone who has been and can still be shy and feeling awkward around people I don’t know, I can imagine that I may not have made the greatest first impression either.

  378.  #378Honey on October 30, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    Lucy 368 –

    Exactly. That’s what I’m getting at. I want to be honest at all times in all areas of my life. I don’t want to lead anybody on. So how do you know the “code” to what different non-verbal cues mean regarding kissing and affection? I would not kiss a guy I wasn’t planning to see again. For me personally, that’s like lying with my body. How do people figure all this out?

  379.  #379tinque on October 30, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    Honey – How important what is in the long run?

  380.  #380Daria on October 30, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    Honey – there is no code, or lying with our body

    we always want to be open with our body/heart, and use our Words to state our boundaries

    also, we can step back… physically and figuratively from what doesn’t feel good

  381.  #381Daria on October 30, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    Honey – i would feel awkward.. but its something to talk about

    i feel so awkward bringing this up, because i feel so good with you… and yet… i feel like i want to work a little bit on our kissing to see if it could feel better… sometimes it feels a lil bit unmatched… id like to practice so it can feel even better for me and both of us.. what do you think?

  382.  #382Senior Lady Vibe on October 30, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    @369: Honey says:

    “…But, OMG he totally cannot kiss! And I feel so shallow saying this. Yet it is important to me. I am a great kisser and I want someone who can match me. He makes me want to scream, “Can you loosen up and work with me here?!” …

    I’m beginning to think you obviously have some fantastic kissing techniques! Do you have tutorials for the rest of us? Really. 😀


  383.  #383Honey on October 30, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    I’m wondering if my guy that can’t kiss is just holding back on purpose. Some guys really are connected emotionally and physically. He lost a GF to cancer. They had 6 amazing months together and clicked from day 1. Six months in, she found out about the cancer. She called him crying and wanted to know if he was going to leave her. He didn’t. They had 6 more good months, then she started getting sick. He moved her into his house and took care of her until she died. That was 5 years ago and he still misses her. He is a good man – most would have bailed.

  384.  #384Daria on October 30, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    Lucy – it’s impossible to behave more interested than you are

  385.  #385Honey on October 30, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    Tinque #374

    How important is being able to kiss well?

  386.  #386tinque on October 30, 2010 at 4:32 pm

    I see. Well it seems very important to you. A touchy subject to bring up though. I would suggest suggestion in the demonstration. He will get it, or he won’t.

  387.  #387Nikita on October 30, 2010 at 4:32 pm


    do orgasms burn calories? well, I guess they do but how much of orgasming can be used as part of a fitness regimen….I’m feeling a little lazy….. is masturbation an excercise???

  388.  #388Daria on October 30, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    as a Siren, we don’t behave a certain way around certain men

    we alwasy do our best to be OPEN with all men…

    that means 100% interest, with all men

    it also means 100% honesty… as in… if something feels yucky, we say so… if we feel turned off we say so

    while when things don’t feel bad… we are 100% behaving open with all of them

  389.  #389Daria on October 30, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    My date’s babysitter flaked (after having to reschedule from yesterday)

    so he’s coming to meet me now with his kids


  390.  #390Honey on October 30, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    Daria –

    Yes, that would feel a bit uncomfortable to discuss. He is a great lead on the dance floor. I want him to be able to lead in kissing, too. There might be a way to bring this up using the analogy…perhaps the opportunity will present itself tomorrow. I love dancing with him…we have such a great time! In his email to me, when he asked me to go dancing, he wrote, “I miss you.” Awwww…he’s such a good guy. I wish I would fall in love with him, but I have not control over that.

  391.  #391Nikita on October 30, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    ugh…Honey…for me kissing is EVERYTHING my guy has been having a dental work for WEEKS and we aren’t kissing 🙁 I feel so disconnected from him now…. I feel worried to…. we LOVED kissing each other and now it’s like we are roomates….. with some coc* in between 🙁

    I am majorly turned on by kissing- majorly and I just don’t feel as turned on 🙁

  392.  #392Honey on October 30, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    Tinque –

    That makes sense. Hey, I just thought of something…I am a behavioral therapist. I could probably shape his kissing behavior to some extent.

  393.  #393BarbinOz on October 30, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    #320 Loneplum

    I emigrated to Australia with my now ex husband and our kids when they were young, as you see my son has gone back, he may only stay for a few months or he may never come back, who knows. I have my daugher (divorced but now engaged to a good man) and her 2 girls living about an hour away from me. I have seen them about 4 times since I moved to Sydney in July, they have homework, school, jobs etc. and the kids go to their dad every other weekend. My daughter is 38 so it’s not like she is a baby but I feel so damn guilty for wanting to live in England again, but my heart is just not here in Australia. If you saw me out and about you wouldn’t know this as I try my hardest to not let anybody know, but I cannot help my FEELINGS can I?

    I have a big family in England and there is nobody else but us here……….I was so gung ho and full of adventure when we came here back in 1981 but you know when you are young you don’t think of how it will be as you get older………emigrating is fine and wonderful for lots of people but not for everybody.

    I am starting a savings plan, to stop buying pretty things for this flat, I was going to start on the garden next but am putting that on hold and starting from tomorrow I am getting rid of my biggest expense of all (well except for rent) and that is CIGARETTES!! And maybe this is just a phase made more intense by the happenings of the past fortnight, but thats OK, because I will be healthier and richer 🙂 So I am just going to take my time and not go charging off like I normally do……..less DOING and more BEING.

    I have been trying to supress all this by reading The Power Of Now and all that stuff, and live in the moment, blah blah, but it is important to me where I LIVE in the now…………

  394.  #394Honey on October 30, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    Nikita –

    It totally turns me on too. I had another big O just kissing and holding last night. OMG! I can’t believe I am admitting to that. I think he suspected but I didn’t own it. Not ready to. It’s just such a turn on to feel that chemistry and kiss without doing too much else. I LOVE that connection. Yet i could have sex and not climax, cuz I feel pressured to and to get him off. With kissing, there is only the sensuality of the moment with no expectation…and that’s really sexy to me.

  395.  #395tinque on October 30, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    “do orgasms burn calories? well, I guess they do but how much of orgasming can be used as part of a fitness regimen….I’m feeling a little lazy….. is masturbation an excercise???”

    You so crack me up Nikita. The answer is yes to the calories burned, how much depends on how vigorous. Masturbation? Unless you do it while running around the room, probably no. As an exercise regimen? Hey why not. That would be a fun job.

  396.  #396tinque on October 30, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    Honey – yes you probably could.

  397.  #397BarbinOz on October 30, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    #321 Honey

    Aww that was so nice of your grandfather 🙂

    I have a little plaque on my “love” wall ( 🙂 ) that says


  398.  #398Daria on October 30, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    jealous of Honey’s orgasming abilities…

    I get turned on majorly by kissing… but haven’t orgasmed from it yet! esp not a Big one! hhee

    yay ! I want to do this hehe!!

    I am learning mucho here

  399.  #399BarbinOz on October 30, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    #324 Loneplum

    That was so beautiful a True Love Story, thank you for sharing.

  400.  #400Daria on October 30, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Barb in Oz – I would so love for you to move back to England where your heart calls you!!!

  401.  #401Honey on October 30, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    Barb in Oz –

    You had a guy offer to send you back to England, right? Is there no way you can look into that? He could be a freak, but he could be totally legitimate like my grandpa.

  402.  #402Honey on October 30, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    Some of the best sex I’ve ever had has been when NOT having sex. It’s all the other stuff and then tension building from NOT doing it.

    I feel embarrassed saying that.

  403.  #403Honey on October 30, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    OK, no more sex talk for me…not while I’m in celebate mode…I need to think about algebra or something neutral. I need to study now anyway. *sigh*

  404.  #404Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    Honey — “I would not kiss a guy I wasn’t planning to see again. For me personally, that’s like lying with my body.”

    WH kissed me very passionately and intensely when he knew he wasn’t planning to see me again. 🙁

    On the one hand, I feel bad about that because it seems a little like a “lie.” On the other hand, it felt amazing and I am glad to have experienced that with him. And, I wish I had prolonged the kissing (I would have if I had known I would never see him again).

    When I told my guy friends about it, though, they were surprised that he would kiss me like that if he didn’t want to see me again. To them, when they kiss a girl that passionately after a date it means, “I’m into you and I want to see you again and I hope you feel the same way.”

  405.  #405Daria on October 30, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    X times X = S E X lol

  406.  #406Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    And then there’s me, having sex with a guy I’m not attracted to. Lying with my body.

  407.  #407Daria on October 30, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    A woman doesn’t plan, or not plan on seeing a man again… she just accepts or vetoes his plan

    if she feels upset… then she may decide not to see him…

    in that case she probably would feel repulsed by him or certainly not feeling open to kissing him

    and that’s something that can be expressed as well

    if i don’t want to see a guy again… it’s cuz i feel repulsed or else angry

  408.  #408Daria on October 30, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    wow i give up…

    i’ll just live my carefree open hearted love life and let others enjoy their guilt and limitations

    i feel frustrated

  409.  #409Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    Honey, the guy I sometimes have sex with (#401), is a terrible kisser. He has gotten a little bit better though — I think he’s learning from me hehe. 🙂

    BUT — Omg, WH is the best kisser ever — and to me, it feels pretty important.

  410.  #410Daria on October 30, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    lol@ lying wiht my body

    this concept is ridiculous to me haha

    i feel so frustrated… disollve into the nothingness you are “lying with my body” concept!!

  411.  #411Daria on October 30, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    oops i reached for the phone with my hand… i must be lying with mybody cuz i don’t intend to make a call lol


    i wore revelaing clothes! i must be lying with my body cuz i don’t intend to have sex!!

    i had sex with a man cuz i wanted to !! i must be lying with my body cuz i dont intend to marry him!!!

  412.  #412Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    Daria, what if WE are also living carefree open hearted love lives without guilt and limitations — and it just looks different from the way you do it?

  413.  #413Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    Your examples are nothing like what we are talking about.

  414.  #414Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    “Lucy – it’s impossible to behave more interested than you are.”

    Not for me. 🙂 I apparently don’t have that limitation.

  415.  #415Brenda on October 30, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    Hi! Just checking in. I had a really productive day doing laundry, shopping, and doing housework. I am exhausted and going to bed early. I love you all!

  416.  #416Nikita on October 30, 2010 at 5:53 pm


    yay! thank you for sharing the story 🙂 I believe this!

  417.  #417Brenda on October 30, 2010 at 5:57 pm


    RE: #218 – Thank you for the link to the schizophrenia website! Here’s one for you: schizophrenia defeated dot com! I will look at it more when I am more rested.

  418.  #418Nikita on October 30, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    #396- Honey, Barb

    He could be her prince. He could be a philanthropist. He could be the (stranger) angel…..that waits to be entertained * instead of feared;)

  419.  #419Nikita on October 30, 2010 at 6:01 pm


    *pout! I am being serious 😳
    Do orgasms improve muscle tone?

  420.  #420Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    Nikita, yes. 🙂

  421.  #421Senior Lady Vibe on October 30, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    @409: Lucy says:
    “Lucy – it’s impossible to behave more interested than you are.”

    Not for me. I apparently don’t have that limitation.

    It’s not only POSSIBLE for someone to behave more interested than he/she is, it’s frequently encountered unless one associates with only very transparent people.

    Much social behavior is predicated on this sort of behaviour usually without tragic results. Sometimes it’s just being polite. So, it’s commonplace and apt to drift onto the dating scene.

    And come to think about it, isn’t it the “player’s” stock in trade?


  422.  #422Nikita on October 30, 2010 at 6:05 pm–orgasm-this-new-book-can-help

    orgasm diet LOL!

    I wonder……since I stopped smoking my libido has changed….. is nicotine an aphrodisiac? doubt it- My orgasms get stronger when I stop smoking…(thinking)

  423.  #423Nikita on October 30, 2010 at 6:06 pm



  424.  #424Brenda on October 30, 2010 at 6:06 pm


    RE: #231 – You said, “Brenda – to me this behavior feels terrible to witness, not so much because i’m concerned about Ryan… but about you”

    Thank you very much for your feedback. It helps me be more objective about myself. When I wrote my feeling messages to Ryan last week or so you didn’t seem so upset. What made the difference? Hearing Franny’s perspective? I mean, I contacted him those two days in a row, which I wrote in full here, and then I haven’t contacted him since he said we can start talking again (it’s been 1.5 wks now since then).

    BTW, I talked with Franny on the phone tonight and we made up. She said my convo with Ryan pissed her off cuz he has made it clear he needs space in the past. I gave her the analogy of how both she and I are overeaters. Even tho we know it isn’t healthy, gives us health problems, makes us look worse, we still eat. Knowing those things doesn’t stop us. Because the core problem isn’t physical: it’s emotional. I explained how in the same way my issues with contacting Ryan are emotional, and that I am working hard to stop it. And the truth is I’ve come lightyears in the past year from how obsessively I used to contact him. It feels embarrassing. But I know I am making baby steps. And I am far more under control now. Being on this blog helps a lot, and all you ladies.

  425.  #425BarbinOz on October 30, 2010 at 6:07 pm

    #413 Nikita

    I wrote back last night and thanked him for his very generous kind offer but didn’t feel I could take him up on it. It’s not like I am destitute and homeless and jobless you know, I do have the means to get my airfare by selling up. Actually this is the email I sent:

    “Hi Ray

    Thank you SO MUCH for your kind, kind offer, you have really touched me, I don’t think for one minute you are a nutter or a weirdo.

    And whilst I won’t take you up on your offer you have made me realise that there are GOOD, KIND, DECENT men out there……….this is the kindest thing that ANYBODY and I mean that, has ever offered to do for me.

    I plan on saving the money myself to get over there, it will probably take some time and I do need to have some kind of plan…………..I don’t just want to arrive with nothing to my name and rely on the charity of my family if you understand me.

    I am feeling overwhelmed tonight that a stranger has offered me the money to buy a ticket to England, your kindness and your generosity of spirit is a gift that will remain in my heart forever.

    Take care Ray you are truly a good man.

    Kindest regards and thoughts
    Barb xxx”

    I TRULY do think he was a messenger and has been another reminder to me (just like my sisters husband who just died) that THERE are good kind men out there, they are not all toxic or a$$holes, maybe I am moving into a higher vibrational level. 😀

  426.  #426Nikita on October 30, 2010 at 6:07 pm

    Wha??????? caffeine could interfere with orgasm?????

    is this true??????


  427.  #427Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 6:07 pm

    Yes, really. My gyn oncologist and I have talked about this subject quite a bit.

  428.  #428Brenda on October 30, 2010 at 6:09 pm


    RE: #239 – Wow! You really HAVE come a long way!

    Tough times never last! Tough people do!


  429.  #429Brenda on October 30, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    I will have to catch up on the rest of the blog later. I am exhausted and need to lay down.

  430.  #430BarbinOz on October 30, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    Damn my stars are good today!!!

    “Even if you’ve never believed in fate, you’re about to become aware of its existence. Circumstances that are supposedly beyond your control will put you in touch with someone you wouldn’t have met if you hadn’t been diverted — so don’t be mad if you lock the keys in the car.”


  431.  #431Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    That was in answer to you, Nikita, your question about orgasms. (Yes, really. My gyn oncologist and I have talked about this subject quite a bit.)

  432.  #432Honey on October 30, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    SLV –

    Yes, that IS what players do. And I don’t want to be a player on any level. I’m honestly not all that interested in CDing just for practice, either, if the guy is really looking for something serious. If he is just out to have a fun outing with a woman that he is attracted to, then ok. I know this is not what RR suggests, and I’m not advocating my approach for anyone else.

    I want to only go out with men I am truly interested in getting to know. After a time, if I’ve ruled them out for the long haul, I will either cut them loose or let them know so they can make an informed decision for their own life where I am concerned. I DO live a very transparent life and have a high level of empathy, so I cannot see doing otherwise for myself given my emotional makeup. I’m cool with whatever anyone else does, though, and it really helps me to see things from different perspectives, whether that is something I choose for my life or not. I’m letting in the wisdom that feels right for me and leaving the rest alone.

  433.  #433Honey on October 30, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    What??? Caffeine interferes with orgasms? Whoa…I drink a pot of coffee a day and am totally addicted. What’s going to happen if I quit coffee someday? If I can have an O from kissing now, will I be able to quit coffee and have Os spontaneously while doing things like, say, brushing my teeth? As soon as I’m done with these post grad courses I am SO off coffee! LOL

  434.  #434Daria on October 30, 2010 at 6:25 pm

    Brenda – I did say I felt gross reading them. I didn’t feel upset because…

    you had gone 18 days without contacting him, and I figured you were just throwing yourself off your bridge momentarily to check if the water’s still cold

  435.  #435Daria on October 30, 2010 at 6:26 pm

    players… *mumbles to self* and goes back to practicing Rori tools

  436.  #436Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    This friend from college and I are flirting up a storm on facebook.

    He’s the one I was writing about last night who was going to a very cool halloween party, and said he Would say “come along” if I lived closer.

    I haven’t seen him in about 25 years. We’ve been fb friends for over a year — but he was married until about eight months ago, so it was purely friendship… and I was also fb friends with his wife, who I also knew in college. I was shocked and sad when he told me they were divorcing. I also kind of distanced myself from him on fb at that time bc I didn’t want to take sides at all btwn the two of them — and I also felt weird bc he said he had cheated on her.

    Interestingly, though, their story fits with the convo here tonight. I had forgotten about that!! He told me the story several months ago. She had stopped wanting sex with him, gradually having it less and less until stopping completely. He is a psychologist, and wanted them to work through it, get help, etc. But she said the problem was that she never really was physically attracted to him to begin with. Ever. She thought it wouldn’t matter, that maybe it would grow, and she loved him enough to marry him. And she got in that zone enough to find him physically attractive enough to have sex with sometimes, for awhile. But she just couldn’t do it any more. And she realized she should have been more honest with herself about it to begin with and not married him.

    So, after sex had stopped completely for quite awhile, he ended up cheating on her. And then she decided that if HE could do that, she could also find someone that she DID feel attracted to and sleep with him, which she did. And she ended up leaving her husband for this man she felt physically attracted to, which she had never felt in her marriage.

  437.  #437Senior Lady Vibe on October 30, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    @427: Honey says:

    “SLV –
    Yes, that IS what players do. And I don’t want to be a player on any level.”

    I wasn’t suggesting that you are a player or should be one or that all “acting a little more interested” is meant to be deceitful or manipulative.

    Sometimes it’s just being pleasant when you’d really like to go home before the concert ends…

    And most people don’t blurt out the first thing that pops into their heads…well…some do. Most people are behave in a way that is sociable and kind without meaning to hurt anyone. This is what I was referring to. This is what goes on everyday without calamity. On the other hand, manipulative deceitful behaviour at the other end of the spectrum isn’t something I’m advising; it, or course, does exist and there’s no denying it as an impossibility.

    Has anyone here not experienced it? It is indeed possible.


  438.  #438Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 6:37 pm

    Honey and Nikita — coffee is tricky.

    It has estrogenic properties that in some women can RAISE their estrogen levels and in some women LOWERS their estrogen levels.

    So, Honey, it’s possible that all that coffee you drink is CREATING the conditions for your awesome orgasms.

  439.  #439Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 6:39 pm

    Before my cancer surgery, my estrogen was so high that I DID have orgasms spontaneously, like out shopping at Wal-mart. It was pretty cool.

  440.  #440Daria on October 30, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    i feel sad… i feel sad that Rori’s tools don’t magically blind people thru their belief ssystmes like

    AAAAHHHHH the sky opening up

    i feel misunderstood and sad when people don’t see the magic and power in the tools

    i feel hanging head

    i feel frustrated… and annoyed

    i feel drained reading posts about not using rori tools


    i feel angry

    i feel annoyed that i look on the side bar comments and am triggered to feel turned off and drained

    i feel disapointed

    i feel sad and tired

    i feel mad at you for drainin me blog! i feel blamy at you



    i feel mad at you

    o feel crumpled and apthetic

    i love my crumpleness and apathy

    and that feels like

    hm smile

    i love my hm smile

    and that feels like

    tingly tongue

    i love my tingly tongue

    and that feels like


    i love my yawn

    and that feels like

    tingly shoulders

    i love my tingly shoulders

    and that feels like


    i feel so angry at the beliefs that keep women from seeing that they’re Goddesses! from seeing that every moment they spend with a man is a gift! from feeling like they are a gift in the world and directing energy on thtemselves

    i feel afraid of being dragged down by these beliefs too

    i love my feelings

    i love my fears

    i love my sadness

    and taht feels like

    hmmmm smile

    i love my smile

    i love my hmmm

    i love my anger

    i love my yawn

    i love my tongue tingling

    i love my chest tightening and my nose tightening

    i love my yawning

    i feel sooo sinking tummy and disappointment that Barb isn’t accepting that man’s offer to help her

    i feel so sad and misunderstood

    im practicing opening and receiving from men

    practicing not being a cactus

    i feel crumpled

    i feel small and alone

    i want Rori to write another damn article

    i don’t wan to feel drained
    im feeling angry



    ok back to focus on me


    ok focusing on me feels good

    i feel terrible seeing people what looks like to me blinded from receiving and by their beliefs and

    i DON’T want to feel that way

    i want to feel inspired, empowered, yummy!! I want to feel uplifted and filled with lovely energy

    tha twould feel like smiling….

    liek body tingling freely from head to toe

    like open heart

    like relaxation

    like joy and giggling


    i love my feelings


    im feeling a lil bit better yay

    i still feel angry and i LOVEEE my anger

    yum my beautiful anger

  441.  #441Nikita on October 30, 2010 at 6:42 pm


    🙄 spill it 😀

  442.  #442Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    Nikita, spill it? You mean I DID spill it, or is there something else you want me to spill? 🙂 Lol.

  443.  #443Daria on October 30, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    oops did i forget to add

    “it’s impossible to behave more interested than you are – while verbally expressing your deepest honest feelings at the same time”

  444.  #444Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    Daria, I feel bad that you feel bad.

    We do know that we are gifts to men and the world, and that every moment we spend with them is a gift.

  445.  #445Honey on October 30, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    Lucy #433 –

    DAMN, Girl, I’m gonna go get me a cup o jave RIGHT NOW!!!

  446.  #446Daria on October 30, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    dear Daria… im feeling weird today

    im feeling misunderstood by the voices on my journal

    im feeling angry at them

    im feeling drained

    and im feeling mad as it is

    i feel apathetic


    ill try sinking in this

  447.  #447Daria on October 30, 2010 at 6:49 pm

    lucy – hey

    well then im referring to this “leading men on” concept

    i don’t like this concept haunting my island

    it doesn’t feel good

  448.  #448Honey on October 30, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    oops I meant “java”

  449.  #449Daria on October 30, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    i’ve never heard Rori say… don’t lead men on…


    you must be careful not to lead men on

    this is because it’s impossible

    it’s impossible

    to be dishonest (lead someone on) while being honest and open (sharing feelings)

    the only way to be dishonest is by holding back on sharing feelings

  450.  #450Daria on October 30, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    it’s yoru right to use this concept if you want

    but it feels bad to me

    i feel very saddened and burdened to see it used here

    i don’t want to feel dragged down by it

    i don’t want to see others dragged down by it

    i don’t want to give it energy

    i feel angry at it

    i feel like slapping it

    i love my feelings

    i love my rage at the thought of it being possible for an honest open goddess to lead a man on

    oh wow


    it just doens’t work with my Goddess life on my Goddess rock in the woods

    with men coming in to worship me

    how can I lead them on? by appearing ? where they have sought me out?

    it’s impossible

    im possibllle

    yeah, if their gifts feel bad/.. i can say so

    if their energy gifts drain me… i can say so

    i can refuse them

    but lead them on

    that is impossible

    for me at my rock altar in the forest

    i feel so frustrated at my words


    Goddbye lead men on concept

    i dont want u in my life

    thank you for your work and trying to protect me

    and now i have received the message

    of being ALWAYS HONEST

    thank u

    always honest


    right on!


  451.  #451Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    I understand what you are saying, Daria. It’s just that there’s a real subtle thing that can happen — not sure how to express it — that, to me, fits the phrase “lead him on.”

    Maybe that is not the right phrase. Maybe I can call it something else.

  452.  #452Nikita on October 30, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    Muscle tone… I am curious about muscle tone. I would like to release a few inches from my waistline…. I wonder if self pleasuring would increase the likelihood of my toning that area….glutes….the muscles that hold and build tension towards release….and sort of answer or tidbit would be helpful for me…. I prefer siren answers to google….they feel like testimonies and poetry 🙂

  453.  #453Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    Nikita, self-pleasuring is my exercise of choice for toning abs and glutes.

  454.  #454Daria on October 30, 2010 at 7:01 pm

    leading a man on hmm this is like NOT sharing with him the feeling of not being turned on… or not feeling gotten… or not feeling good… or feeling drained

    so yeah i don’t want to NOT share those

    dear man… i feel drained in our conversations… i dont want to feel this way

    dear man… i feel uncomfortable receiving from u… i feel confused whether its my feeling unworthy or something particular with you that triggers me this way… what do you think?

    daer man… i don’t feel romantically attracted to you at this time yet.. what do you think?

    dear man… i feel turned off by certain stuff when we’re together… and theres so much i do like about u… what do you think?

    dear man… i feel a lil unsafe to share my feelings with you… i feel very vulnerable… what do you think?

  455.  #455Honey on October 30, 2010 at 7:04 pm

    Every moment we spend with a man CAN be a gift if we allow it. But I, for one, have not always been a gift. Daria, if you are, great. But there times when I have been rude, hurtful, suspicious, insecure, selfish, etc with a man. I am not perfect, and I forgive myself. At the same time, he was not being graced by my presence at those moments. If I am strong and secure and honest and present, then my presence is a gift.

    If I sleep with a man I don’t love, it is a betrayal of myself. I have betrayed myself in this way before and it sucks – I hope I never do it again. Making love is sharing the most intimate part of myself. For others it is not that, but for me it is. I am not putting this on anyone else. I’m ONLY talking about myself. And many men become vulnerable when they get sexually involved, too. Sex doesn’t ALWAYS mean nothing to a man. I have known men to who it means A LOT. We just can never assume that it means anything.

    I’ve been in love and had sexual relationships with several men since my divorce. And I have to say, for me, the more guys I’ve been involved with, the more it diminishes the experience. My husband was the first man I ever made love with. If I had my choice, I would have been with one man, and one only for my entire life.

    I had a friend once in college who told me, “I feel like I’ve left a part of myself with every man I ever slept with.” And she felt very disconnected with those parts of herself.

    I am not invalidating anyone else’s experience. And it feels bad to have my own experience invalidated because it is different from someone else’s. We share many commonalities, but ultimately each have our own personal truth.

  456.  #456Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 7:04 pm

    You can say all those things to him, but if you keep spending time with him, sleeping with him, holding his hand, snuggling, etc….. well…..

  457.  #457Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    You spend time with him bc his company is okay and you are lonely.

    You sleep with him bc you’re horny.

    You hold his hand bc it feels nice.

    You snuggle bc he wants to while you are watching a movie you really like and you feel okay doing so.

  458.  #458Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    You are open to receiving from him — presents and fancy dinners and concerts and outings — sure, why not! I love stuff (presents)! and yummy food and music.

    Even if I’m not into the man giving them to me.

    Even if I am OPEN to becoming into him, but I am not at this time.

  459.  #459Honey on October 30, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    Nikita –

    I saw this link from you on the other thread. It made me very emotional.


  460.  #460Daria on October 30, 2010 at 7:14 pm

    i dont want to read any comments right now… i might go back and read some later

    i dont want to argue

    i just want to riff

    and write for myself

    and for myself

    i feel unsafe and drained reading comments

    i dont want to argue or defend or make wrong

    ive been riffing out and my tone had judgements in it

    esp at the beginning of this process several comments back

    and im sure it triggered people

    i dont want to explain

    i dont want be explained to

    i want to feel safe destroying the concept of leading a man on for myself

    i know once i have destroyed it

    i will more easily speak it through

    and not feel so drained

    so ….

    it’s not just that…

    it’s that

    im focusing on what looks to me as other people’s “struggles”

    when really

    i am avoiding my own feelings right now

    and i feel

    a little lonely

    and a little angry

    and hungry

    i feel hungry and im gonna eat now

  461.  #461Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    “I’m not that into you.”

    “Oh. You’re not?”


    “Does that mean you don’t want to go to the Keith Urban concert with me?”

    “I would love to go to the Keith Urban concert with you!”

    And this continues repeatedly with various scenarios and disclosures.

    The man is being told the truth.

    He is choosing to lavish time, money, and his heart upon me anyway, because he likes me and is attracted to me and wants to be with me . . . and he hopes that even though I am saying these things, the fact that I keep receiving from him must mean Something, he thinks.

    It is not my fault he thinks that, no.

    I have been honest, and continue to be.

    So, in that sense, I am not leading him on.

    His hopes are leading him on, encouraged by my behavior.

  462.  #462Nikita on October 30, 2010 at 7:19 pm


    but do you see results?? Like, over your sexual lifetime, is there a difference in your body compared to when you do or don’t “exercise” (as you call it LOL 😉 )

  463.  #463Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    “And many men become vulnerable when they get sexually involved, too. Sex doesn’t ALWAYS mean nothing to a man. I have known men to who it means A LOT.”

    That’s a really good point, Honey. I have found that to be true in several cases. And they feel awful when they find out it didn’t mean anything to the girl.

  464.  #464Lucy on October 30, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    Nikita, I don’t know. I’ve never NOT exercised. Lol.

  465.  #465Daria on October 30, 2010 at 7:38 pm

    dear journal… im feeling sad… i feel disappointed my big date from yesterday and moved to today didnt happen… even tho he promises hell make it up to me w the best 1st date ive ever had.. that feels good

    i feel determined to stay sad hehe

    i feel angry at italian guy for saying he’ll tell me when we’re gonna hang out today

    i feel disappointed that i feel so drained

    this is a great opportunity to work out, and paint and do fun stuff