Is My Advice Dangerous?

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navigating loveI just received this letter:

“I recently came across your website via an advertisement on Facebook, and passionately feel that the advice you give is damaging and indeed dangerous, particularly to younger women and girls who perhaps do not know any better.

I don’t actually believe that you believe in these things – never initiate contact, never ask how he feels, never make suggestions or plans – what?! So in essence just completely cease to be a person? The way that this is targeted against women disgusts me. What a sad day for feminism. I really hope you’ll reconsider the effects that language and ideas like this has on women, and change your advice accordingly.”

My Answer:
Though I am not for everyone, in terms of your own well-being and that of your love life (if you clicked through on an ad, you may have been looking for personal assistance?), perhaps your assessment of my beliefs and work are based on just a few articles or blog posts?

A conclusion that to “not initiate, not ask how a man “feels” (but to ask instead what he “thinks”) within a romantic relationship is somehow “non-feminist” is to totally miss the message here, which is quite over-the-top feminist.

Women leaders all over the world are desperate to provide help, information and inspiration to women and girls who have no self-esteem because they put a man’s needs, and the requirements society puts on them, first.

Even though I’m known as a “love and relationship coach,” I’ve been approached by women running all sort of programs in the U.S and countries where women are considered little more than property, and often thought of as burdensome and even disgusting property, to offer my Have The Relationship You Want book as a self-esteem booster and in some cases “dignity survival guide” to women in their communities.

This was never about “strategy.” It’s always been about delving into who you are as a person, and then communicating that to men and the world.

What you may be seeing and reading may not be enough to give you the full picture of the core message of empowerment. Women who first find themselves at the Rori Raye community are often so busy contacting men, initiating, holding up the relationship with their bare hands – they have no idea how to find themselves as people. What we’re about here is helping women find themselves and express themselves.

I’m sorry you had such a strong reaction, and I would encourage you read, watch and listen further.

Love, Rori

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88 Comments

  1.  #1Femininewoman on April 14, 2016 at 6:12 am

    Wow.



  2.  #2Tee on April 14, 2016 at 7:05 am

    Just sharing.

    I was thinking, a few days ago, how my mindset has gotten me into “trouble” in the past. How if something is “boring” or it takes too long it becomes my reason to stop. I’ve done this with jobs & going to the gym. I’m seeing that I need to push past that, set up a reward system or something for myself every week.

    A trip to the bookstore for a new book, a massage, etc…then that’ll be my motivation. If all I’m doing is paying bills and thinking about the next bill…why wouldn’t I be irked & ready to quit?

    I’m thinking that this is why I’m probably no longer fun, too serious & frequently annoyed by E. All I think about are bills. Even if the bill is paid, I’m thinking about that next bill..and we don’t even have crazy bills like that anyway!

    I need to loosen up, let go. I don’t even play with E anymore. It’s like I’m “punishing” him for being the carefree one while I’m “stuck” being the serious one.

    I’m grateful for being allowed to see these things so that I can change them.



  3.  #3Liquid Light on April 14, 2016 at 9:24 am

    Very well said! Go Rori!



  4.  #4Azure Blu on April 14, 2016 at 9:25 am

    This is so spot on!!!
    That’s EXACTLY what I found here on Siren Island and listening to Rori’s DVD’s and reading her emails and reading her ebook!!
    MY SELF ESTEEM is what has REALLY changed…
    has created an incredible life for ME and My boyfriend and family!!!
    and it is MOST assuredly NOT a strategy…
    unless it’s a strategy for learning to LOVE ME
    UNCONDITIONALLY!!!

    I certainly hope the woman that wrote that letter was able to study and read deeper into Rori’s teachings
    and find the help she is most certainly looking for…
    oxoxo



  5.  #5Sami Wunder on April 14, 2016 at 9:49 am

    Go Rori ! Absolutely. Love, Sami



  6.  #6Leigha Lake on April 14, 2016 at 1:10 pm

    I believe this information about love, romantic relationships and learning to express how you really feel, is the most important information a woman can learn!! I’m beyond grateful I came across Rori’s material so long ago! <3 <3 Leigha xo



  7.  #7T-Girl on April 14, 2016 at 4:40 pm

    Dangerous? No way. But some people just don’t get it. Believe me, I’ve tried to explain to friends a lot of times without success. But for me it was a life changer and I am now married to the love of my life after finding Rori and this site and to that I say Thank You because now I have the love I knew existed for me.



  8.  #8T-Girl on April 14, 2016 at 4:47 pm

    BTW Rori, I just want to give you a huge hug. Just to thank you from the bottom of my heart



  9.  #9Angela on April 14, 2016 at 7:22 pm

    Rori helps women break lose of the behaviors that break down a relationship; desperately needing, wanting going after a man and putting a man first.
    I dont see how that can be dangerous.
    I love that Rori’s work empowers the women to have and find her happiness first, her place in the world, and to have a fulfilled life and then chose if she wants or not a relationship. Her blog is called Have the relationship YOU want!
    Its beautiful to me how she does this work by believing in the greater goodness/ and happiness she feels a person deserves.

    In my opinion she’s not only creating better relationships but a better world.
    A world were we are in touch with our feelings, not our negative thoughts(the negative thoughts that sometimes push us to say things we don’t even need to say to a man, because we dont truly feel those things, Words that sometimes come from a disconnection from ourselves.)
    A world where we trusts ourselves so much as women but also trust in the goodness of men.
    Anyway i love Rori and also completely understand this woman’s point of view.
    To her I say that this work helps us be more of our true selves so that we can go out and affect the world and the men we interact with in a truly authentic way.
    And isn’t that empowering; being able to say how you truly feel.
    I love that!
    Prior to Rori I was not able to say i feel this way or that way. Now I can look at people in the eye be raw and honest and say how I feel without fear. 🙂



  10.  #10Indigo on April 14, 2016 at 10:31 pm

    I really wish people wouldn’t be so quick to say that something is anti-feminist or that it disempowers women… I wish they would give women more credit than that. Women are wonderful and need to be strong enough to know what they feel and think, without having to be told by anybody. Nobody can ever take away your power as a woman and as a person unless you let them. And so I suppose it bothers me, anyone who implies that women are weak and gullible and need to be protected from “dangerous” information. My wish for all women is that we know ourselves, that we deeply and intimately know our own minds and hearts <3

    Many of the principles I have learnt on this site and from the Rori community have helped me so much when it comes to relationships and men. I do not follow every one of her teachings to the letter because I've never been that sort of person and I think anything taken to the extreme or too literally is a bad thing. But so many of the teachings on femininity have helped me so immeasurably. I feel so happy with what I know about relationships now and with what I know about how they and men actually work.

    I see women I know making mistakes that I would never make now, and it's so hard to watch but you can really only keep quiet because they don't listen. There is a close friend of mine who has just got involved with a man, and she is the type of woman who loves nothing more than the affirmation of others and the social validation that comes from being in a relationship. She was happily texting me yesterday about how wonderful he is and how they have spent every weekend together and how she is ready to make an announcement that they are official on Facebook. They have been dating for a month. She also texted me several selfies that she took of the two of them together and this man looks so guarded and reluctant in these pictures, he is not even smiling. These are the sorts of things I notice and that send little alarm bells now to me after so long in this community. I gently advised her not to rush to put it on Facebook and just to take her time, but I knew it was falling on deaf ears. Anyway, maybe it will all be fine but do you really want to leave it all to chance?

    Come to think of it I see some of my guy friends making the same mistakes in love, so it's not just women….



  11.  #11Femininewoman on April 15, 2016 at 6:43 am

    “I am feeling done with this conversation”

    I read that today and it resonated deeply with me as I realized how clear it is and can see how many missed opportunities I have had around such a feeling message.



  12.  #12Jessie1001 on April 15, 2016 at 7:37 am

    GO RORI
    You know what drives me crazy? How many movies where women helplessly lay around while they are attacked…submit to the bad guy, do whatever he says its like stockholme syndrome is a normal way to act in any action movie
    LOVE YOUR POST
    Its so sexy, because why would we chase anyone for a relationship
    we are way too good for that



  13.  #13Shina on April 16, 2016 at 9:25 am

    Rori, you are an amazing life-changing coach who has touched my life and helped me become a woman who is now capable of giving and actually receiving great love (this used to be so challenging for me). It is so unfortunate that we all have been sold such a horrible bill of goods of what feminism and the “empowered female” is — one that goes against our gentle emotional nature and disrespects all the wonderful sensitivities we have as glorious females. Reading this woman’s letter filled with fear and limitations makes me feel sad because this is such a common reaction to Rori’s teachings of using our feminine energy and way of being to manifest our greatest love. I myself have experienced many who reacted very similarly when I’ve shared her teachings as being “crazy,” radical, archaic, and down right anti-feminist and harmful to women.

    I can personally attest to and guarantee that if you follow her teachings, you will be able to have the relationship you want. When I started this journey 10 yrs ago, I would never have imagined how ridiculously happy and fulfilled I am today. My own incredible marriage to my soulmate and both my husband and I falling deeper in love & intimacy every year that passes, is a true testament that utilizing our feminine energy and feelings as the guiding force in navigating our love relationship is the ONLY true North Star we can truly depend on.

    Rori, thank you so much for all of your work and keeping the faith for us all. What you teach might not be very trendy or popular with all of the latest fads and theories of what constitutes successful dating for today’s “empowered” woman. But we need women like you to teach us what is real and truly works with so much misinformation out there.

    Thank you for all that you do, for all the lives you have touched with your courage and voice.

    Big ((hugs)) and lots of love XOXOXO



  14.  #14Emerson on April 16, 2016 at 11:08 pm

    Rori
    Well said, your advice is refreshing and helpful to me. Thank you.



  15.  #15Emerson on April 16, 2016 at 11:17 pm

    Sirens….
    YoungCD I have been thinking about him a lot! But a little bird told me his ex may still be lurking…
    I’m keeping cool and staying on my path…
    Can’t get upset over it.



  16.  #16Millie on April 17, 2016 at 12:51 am

    Lately I been in “cocoon” mode. Hibernating and listening to Dr. Pat Allen incessantly, reading her books, reading blog posts, flooding myself with a new way of thinking and insight into the past. I’m wondering if all this “isolation” has had an effect on my social ability. For example, tonight I went out dancing and three men approached me, all who I sensed would. Other men asked me to dance, but these three initiated a conversation. With all three I felt myself pause before responding, like all of a sudden I had to be magnetic and feeling message and I found myself not really knowing what to say, like I’ve lost myself in all of this, and the only way I know how to respond is to talk frankly and kind of mimicking all the new ways of speaking that I have heard. I don’t know what my essence is. Who am I? I feel like men get bored talking to me. Like all my learnings are actually turning me into someone very passive and a little bit paralyzed when it comes to conversations. The first man I wasn’t attracted to at all, so even though I paused, the conversation didn’t matter to me that much. The second is someone who actually contacted me previously through an online dating site, planned a date, and then cancelled and I never heard from him again, until tonight. He asked me to dance and I felt so disconnected with him. I hard a time hearing his conversation and a hard time following his body. What is going on? He approached me again and said he felt he owed me an explanation about canceling the date. I said sure, if he felt the need, I would listen. I didn’t feel magnetic, I didn’t feel vivacious, I didnt feel interesting, I didn’t create any magic. What he said and what I said was just fine, but simply that fine. Not great, not wonderful, no sparks, no nothing. I think he is attractive, but I don’t think I even FELT anything. I didnt feel good or bad, hot or cold. I just was there. No desire for him to DO anything. I don’t like that. The third was someone I made eye contact with and he came over to me and my friend. He asked where he could learn to dance. I waited for my friend to respond first and when she didn’t I asked where he was from…and the whole conversation felt forced and not fluid. I paused because although he was a good looking man, something about his voice completely jarred me. I felt so turned off by it, that it left me speechless like a deer in the headlights. I don’t know what is going on with me. Where did my personality go? I look good on the outside but I feel bland on the inside. What is going on here?



  17.  #17Femininewoman on April 17, 2016 at 3:54 am

    Millie sounds to me like you are building awareness certainly not bland



  18.  #18Dixie on April 17, 2016 at 5:12 am

    Hmmmm.

    The letter that Rori posted doesn’t resonate with me. In fact, coming to this site, learning about the tools, has really pointed my attention inward, to finding inner joy and satisfaction, and then to let those feelings guide me….

    In the past, and yes, even some days now, overfunctioning was a go-to tactic, to hide my fear and insecurities, to hide my self-doubt, and sometimes, hide all my vulnerabilities.

    But what I’ve learned, still AM learning, is to love me, love my feelings – no matter what they are- and to look after myself first, before anything else. I’m learning that my self-acceptance and self-care leads to more fulfilling interactions and relationships because I can trust myself!

    I love that I can freely leave space for a man to plan, approach, lead, and step into a masculine role, rather than me feeling like I need to row the boat, fill the silence, steer the relationship. I like that I can sink into all my feminine qualities in a romantic relationship while still trusting my masculine energy to look after me.

    This has been a pivotal shift for me Rori – thank you!!! Because of this site, I’ve been able to express appreciation, share my feelings in a non-blaming, authentic way that lets me feel heard, and more than anything else, I’ve learned to love all the scary feelings of doubt and insecurity because they point me to where I need to love myself a little more 🙂

    Thank you for the visualization techniques – they have been a source of positive imaginings and soothing feelings when I felt myself wrapped in the tearful grip of fear and desperation. In the past, I would overfunction, reach out, blame, etc….. But honestly, I’m so much more softer with myself, and it’s easier to treat myself with kindness rather than criticism.

    Thank you for letting me feel safe in leaning back, that being able to be vulnerable is an ultimate act of strength because it shows that I can trust my boundaries.

    When I joined the conversation a couple of years ago, I was filled with fear, anxiety, and in a really bad place inside. I was reeling from heartache. I thought that “working” or “fixing” a relationship was the way to go. I love that my masculine energy takes care of my inner self, letting me feel so safe at all times.

    All I know is that your tools work. My relationship with D. Is so different from what it was. He’s thinking forever, and I’m okay with remaining open to whatever happens until marriage is on the table. I’m letting him lead. I’m far less reactive. My relationship with my family is better. I can recognize my own triggers and soothe them. This is a wonderful journey Rori, and I feel so much gratitude and appreciation for what you do.



  19.  #19Azure Blu on April 17, 2016 at 10:49 am

    Millie #16
    Ohhh… this sounds sooo good to me…
    Just like FW said… YOU building awareness…

    Leaning back all evening…

    NOT pushing and shoving things into happening…
    Just BEING YOU!!
    YOU ARE beautiful… leaning back… into the silence…
    Letting the men lead… if they can…

    “At a very basic level,
 think of the masculine energy as being in the future

    and the feminine energy as “BEING” in the present.”

    Indigo wrote (this was last year sometime)
    “My whole journey has become an adventure in coaxing my own heart more open,
    and knowing the things that allow it to do that more easily.
    I’ve learned to trust my instincts
    and gut feelings about things A LOT more.
    Sometimes something feels off about a man
    and I can’t rationally explain it,
    but I don’t automatically dismiss my feelings –
    I honor them,
    except, instead of shutting down
    and running away from the man,
    I pull back and lean back to examine my feelings more closely.
    This is the luxury and the beauty of being a woman.
    It really doesn’t have to be about the man –
    what he is thinking, doing, feeling,
    what “kind” of a man he is…
    it’s really just a lot more about us
    and our feelings.
    At least that is how it is for me.
    I’ve noticed focusing on the man comes from a place of deep insecurity in me,
    because I’m afraid to trust how I really feel –
    when all my answers are in my feelings,
    and always have been.”

    You’re doing GREAT Millie!!!
    Huggs!
    I remember as I discovered more and more about
    who I REALLY AM and began looking closely at my past (family dynamics etc.) stepping into the journey of healing my past… and LOVING ME MORE>..
    It did get VERY confusing and I was in the SOUP!!
    As I still get – just not as long and as deeep!



  20.  #20Azure Blu on April 17, 2016 at 10:53 am

    Dixie and Shina…
    Thank you for your soft, warm eloquent sharing of your journeys with the Rori Tools!!!

    Exactly how I feel but you put it So Well!!
    oxoxo



  21.  #21Indigo on April 17, 2016 at 11:10 am

    Millie,

    I know the feeling you are talking about, but I think you are making far too big a deal out of it. Chances are there was just no chemistry with any of these three guys… I didn’t feel inspired about the possibility of any of them from reading this. Don’t go taking all the blame for the conversations not sparkling.

    Also, a tip from my own experience, try to just BE in the moment, relax, have fun… don’t get too bogged down in what you *should* say.



  22.  #22Azure Blu on April 17, 2016 at 12:19 pm

    Rori says:
    “You sound fantastic!
    I know it feels crappy –
    but here’s the truth – things feel chaotic and stirred up right before you leap into a new level of consciousness and experience.

    The trick is to ride the wave of the anxiety and other feelings
    rather than trying to figure them out.

    Just EMBRACING everything you feel,
    sitting with it –
    not trying to DO anything about it.

    It’s natural to bounce around out of fear…
    – yes, we all fear what we want,
    and intimacy is the number one fear of all of us.
    We fear merging, and want to merge –
    and intimacy feels like merging –
    but it isn’t.

    You have to stay whole enough to be intimate –
    so that’s the trick.

    You are DOING this!

    For you – not “spewing” out the energy that’s welling up inside you is key –
    write it out instead, or talk to yourself in the mirror.
    Breathe, practice going inside,
    and way outside rather than hanging in your head.
    Touch things, dance, move…

    Just keep doing what you’re doing… and fear is part of the teacher, here….”



  23.  #23Summer32 on April 17, 2016 at 1:03 pm

    I think Rori’s methods work on a psychological level that really gets to the very bottom of what REALLY connects a MAN and a WOMAN. Until fairly recently I just “expected” this to happen with all of my boyfriends, while I ignorantly repeated the same pattern of destructive behaviour based on jealousy, abandonment in my past and low self esteem; over and over again, always left rejected and hurt by men that had loved me at first, but gradually realised I could not / would not connect with them emotionally, and they were left feeling they couldn’t make me happy, which I realise now dented their ego among many other things. I wanted to emotionally connect all right, but I had NO CLUE what that REALLY entailed. Rori’s work has taught me:
    A) Communication skills with ALL men, and indeed women as well
    B) How to RECOGNISE and NOT live in my fear, head, thoughts, past or IMAGINATION
    C) How to actually flirt – and not frighten men away – yes this has really happened!
    D) What a man even IS, and how they DIFFER to ME in many many ways, and that this is what makes them exciting
    E) And most importantly, that I am fabulous to a man JUST BECAUSE I AM A WOMAN, for simply no other reason if I just relax and come from a place of femininity, with an open heart!

    Thanks Rori, it’s been a huge learning curve and I’ll never look back!



  24.  #24Dixie on April 17, 2016 at 2:10 pm

    Thank you Azure for posting this: “For you – not “spewing” out the energy that’s welling up inside you is key –
    write it out instead, or talk to yourself in the mirror.
    Breathe, practice going inside,
    and way outside rather than hanging in your head.
    Touch things, dance, move…

    Just keep doing what you’re doing… and fear is part of the teacher, here….”

    I LOVE that you posted this! How funny how things work out! Just two weeks ago or so, after D mentioned forever, I shared here my anxious feelings of going too fast, that I wanted things to s-l-o-w down, for the sheer pleasure to keep discovering each other. Indigo, your suggestion was to leave space, to embrace space, and I loved that! After weeks of tenderness, he’s rubberbanded. The old me would have felt panicky after a couple of days of no contact and probably lashed out in a very scared way. And I’m not saying that it feels good – it doesn’t, lol! But, I get to choose how to respond when the time is right, and I get to choose my feelings. And right now, I’m choosing to embrace the space 🙂



  25.  #25Dixie on April 17, 2016 at 2:28 pm

    Millie….

    I agree with the comments above….. It sounds like your awareness is growing by leaps and bounds! I love this! I don’t think there is anything wrong at all…. It sounds like you are so much more grounded that you recognize and acknowledge all sorts of cues around you!

    I love that you shared that you felt that this new way of talking left you feeling passive. Millie, my dad calls me firebird because I can get so passionate -excited, fired up, joyful- about lots of things, and at work, when I’m in masculine mode, it’s so useful to stay in this fiery masculine energy- I love it!

    I also felt unsure, and almost inauthentic with the new type of language, but we get to choose who we use the language with :). If I want to feel close, if I’m attracted to someone, then I can shift to feeling messages easily; if I’m not feeling a chemistry, or if someone does not intuitively feel right, then I stay in slightly masculine mode because I know deep down that this is someone I don’t want to share space with.

    I love Rori’s mantra of trusting our boundaries. With D., my language has shifted to feeling messages and holy cow. He calls me sweetheart, darling, his girl, his sweetness, and his vibe has become super masculine and protective.

    Even at work, with male colleagues whose support I value, I tell them outright how appreciative I feel, or if I don’t feel comfortable, I share that too. There is a younger colleague who I find abrasive and too chummy, just not a good fit, and I’ve been über-cool, ultra professional with him. But I’m going to try something different this week: just tell him nicely that I prefer it that he call me x instead of y because it makes me feel more comfortable. (He hollers at me by my last babe, which makes me feel like a sportsmate!) I guess the point is (sorry for the long route!) is that we get to choose how to speak to a man, if we want to invite him closer or not.



  26.  #26Dixie on April 17, 2016 at 2:30 pm

    “Last name” is what i meant to type, not “last babe” lol! Oops!!



  27.  #27LoveToMe on April 17, 2016 at 7:49 pm

    This is my response from two posts ago…

    Azure, I loved those posts you put up about vulnerability and authenticity. Especially the authenticity one. But really all if it.

    LL: I think the most important part of what you said regarding K’s question is, “I want to wait.” Start there (at least fur yourself.) when talking with him, maybe start with gratitude. “Thank you sooo much for inviting me on a weekend with you. It feels like a dream, and it’s something I really want to do. But all of this is so new, and I am still getting to know you. I don’t want to rush into anything. Right now, it would feel good to go on a day trip with you. And down the road, we can do a weekend trip together, once we’ve gotten to know each other a little more. What do you think?” (Sample script.)

    Or maybe you’ve already talked with him. How did it go?



  28.  #28Indigo on April 17, 2016 at 10:13 pm

    Sirens,

    I posted a post last night but it disappeared, I am not sure why. But anyway, this is what I wanted to say…

    I am so happy with J. Just all over, inside out, through and through, upside down, blissfully happy.

    He’s not perfect, so I don’t want to seem to be painting him up as some kind of saint or idolising him because that’s not what’s going on… But I find myself wondering when I am going to wake up from this dream in which God has seen fit to place this beautiful knight of a human being beside me. I find myself wondering where he has been all my life and why I’ve had to live so long without him. When I’m lying there in his arms with my head gently on his shoulder, or when we are having breakfast and he is just gazing at me, or when we are baring our souls to one another, I realise that I feel so safe and that I belong right here, right now. That I don’t need or want to be anywhere else, that this is where I’m supposed to be. We can talk for hours upon hours upon hours. In fact this weekend we spent nearly the whole weekend together and we spoke unceasingly from 4 o clock in the afternoon on Saturday until 2 o clock in the morning, and then spent the whole of Sunday together too.

    And though I battle a little with anxiety and go back and forth on my fears a bit, I feel utterly safe. I know that he would never hurt me. And it’s incredible being with someone as sensitive as I am who gets me and my experience. I can never imagine fighting with him or what that would even look like.

    Interestingly enough, when I got home last night from J’s house, and this is really crazy, there was an email waiting for me from…. Bush Boy. Ya. I have not heard from or seen him for months and all of a sudden there’s an email from him when I am at the peak of my happiness with J. It’s interesting how that works, isn’t it. I was really into Bush Boy at one stage, and I always had a funny feeling I would hear from him again, and if anything could be a temptation for me it would be hearing from him again… but I felt no interest on reading his email. I asked him how he was, I told him how I was, and then I told him that I had met someone. And in my mind I blessed him and sent him on his way.



  29.  #29Emerson on April 17, 2016 at 10:44 pm

    Sirens
    I’m very happy right now…I’m also open to meet someone and I am choosing relationship! I feel cautious and a little insecure… Because I have two CDs that are very interesting and I feel excited…just trying to stay grounded, because part of me wants to dive right in and just swim in a refreshing pool of romantic love… But I’m feeling like I have to “control” my emotions so I won’t get “hurt” so I can feel the resistance and fear building up…trying to work through this …



  30.  #30Indigo on April 17, 2016 at 10:59 pm

    Dixie 24,

    I feel like the lesson about leaving space in a relationship is the most difficult, and the most necessary.

    With some men it’s a pattern, having a period of intimacy and then withdrawing for a while. From everything you’ve written about your D it seems like he may be one of those men. My ex D whom you may remember was one of these men too.

    I suppose it’s up to you to decide if this pattern is something you can accept and live with over the long term. I think most of us withdraw to some extent at certain intervals. I know I do, I find it a very healthy part of life to just be alone for a bit, be quiet, go inside and gather your thoughts or recharge your batteries. But I never ghost completely, especially from the ones I love, and from the person I’m in a relationship with, and I’d never want to leave them feeling unsafe or insecure. I don’t know, I guess it’s just something I’m putting out there for you… you seem like such a warm, sensitive person. I’d never go back to a man who said he loved me and needed days of no contact, unless it was for a specific purpose perhaps. If J has had a hard day or is dealing with a work project or tired or not feeling well or whatever he may ghost for a few hours or a day at most but then he gets in touch, and for me it is much easier being with a man like that.

    Your choice of course, I just wanted to put that out there 🙂



  31.  #31Azure Blu on April 18, 2016 at 5:34 am

    Indigo…
    Ohhhh… this sounds sooo lovely…
    Congrats! How amazing to be able to talk to someone for so long about all kinds of things…
    Love this…

    After reading this I realized that Spirit puts up barriers to talking about anything much…
    He has things he likes to make comments about…
    to cause some kind of reaction from me…
    But mainly it is a lot of playful banter… and sports.

    I am beginning to miss real conversation…
    When I start talking very long about something…
    he will seem to withdraw pretty quickly…

    Wonder what kind of message I am getting here…
    What are the questions I need to ask ME?
    What is the growth that can come from this?

    When growing up there was NEVER conversation..
    My father, who suffered from bypolar, talked AT YOU for long stretches of time.. So difficult

    my mother was VERY silent, unless she was telling you what you were doing wrong…
    Not sure about my sister’s and I, when we were young…

    Now my mother and I can carry on a two way conversation… which is wonderful…
    this has been from 13 years of ME changing… which has inspired her to change…
    WONDERFUL!!! She turned 90 yr. this month!

    I have been working on the way I approach talking to people for many years… it sure is a journey…
    something I have had to learn because there was no conversation in my family when I was young…

    I will be thinking about this and wanting to be vulnerable and authentic with Spirit IF I might try and use feeling messages around this…

    I have also noticed that *I* have become the brunt of jokes with him… Being a good sport shouldn’t mean that I
    should be made fun of too much…
    I will observe these things next time Spirit and I are together…



  32.  #32Azure Blu on April 18, 2016 at 6:46 am

    ((((Tee))) #2
    Awesome girl!!!
    your ability to observe yourself is quite profound!!!

    How’s your job?



  33.  #33Tee on April 18, 2016 at 7:24 am

    Hey Azure! The job is ok, a little frustrating at times because there’s nothing set but it’s ok for now. I’m still looking & enjoying the contrast.

    I am pretty good at observing myself but I need to get better at DOING! I’m actually sitting here feeling like I deserve to treat myself, I deserve a day to myself but it feels “wrong”

    I have the money, I have the time, I have my little “Treat Tee” list lol yet I’m still sitting here feeling naughty, like someone will punish me down the line

    Lol I’m weird lol



  34.  #34MissStix on April 18, 2016 at 8:02 am

    I feel compelled to say how Rori and her ideas played a key role in the hugest, most positive shift of my life so far. I haven’t always agreed with everything she says. Sometimes because I am simply a different person and will have ways of living and being that do not mingle well with her own ways.
    Sometimes because her words trigger and move something inside of me that is stuck and I feel the resistance.
    One day I came upon her ideas and my life and myself have grown into something astonishing. I’m pretty much as close as I can get to my best self in this moment and I can thank Rori for being a part of that.

    There was a time where I hated myself for not being what I needed to be to feel welcomed and loved.
    Likely I started here still trying to find a way to be *that* person and continued here in that way for quite some time.
    Yet along the way something wonderful happened…I started to feel compassion for myself and even admiration and love for myself. Through that I gained confidence and became the person *I* welcome and love. I started to welcome and love others as they are.
    This is all that matters.
    For that I thank rori again and all the women I have met here who have become my friends, confidants, advisors.



  35.  #35LoveToMe on April 18, 2016 at 8:13 am

    So I’m glad I contacted my girl friend and let her know what happened with my guy friend (who is also her ex). I was worried that knowing would upset her, but it was actually really great chatting with her about it – and about him. She had some really great insights, and it helped me see the situation in a more nuanced way – and a somewhat friendlier way, toward him and me.

    She dated him for three years, and lived with him for some of that time. And the first thing she said about him (unprompted by me) was that he has “no emotional boundaries.” I was nodding and laughing to myself. It is so true. He is the type of person who is so empathic that he can’t help feeling what the other person in the room is going through. If she is upset, he literally feels it in himself. I am the same way, so I know what it’s like.

    And at the same time, when I thought about us together, I realized that even if he must have felt it when I was upset, he didn’t actually ask me how I was doing, or offer to do anything to soothe my feelings. He was content to let it ride, and let me figure it out for myself. If I wanted him to do something to help me, I had to ask for it, and then he later told me that this made him feel “bullied.” Whereas if I had not asked, I would have simply suffered with no assistance or comfort from him. And thinking about that makes me feel really turned off. It was that attitude that made me see him as selfish, self-serving, and self-absorbed. And the more negatively I felt about him, the more he probably was picking up on that negative feeling and vibration.

    But then I really have to ask myself: was my perception true? Not to question my gut or my instinct or my intuition. But it might be the case that I am predisposed to think of all men as selfish, all men as self-absorbed, all men as self-serving. He simply didn’t strike me as any different from “all men.” And since “all men” are untrustworthy (in some deeply held belief), he was just as untrustworthy as any other man. And I subtly began to mistrust him, to let my mistrust show, and to slowly but surely push him away, even as I was letting myself get “closer” to him.

    Maybe sex was not an aggressive act on his part, maybe it was an aggressive act on my part. Since I can’t conceive of a man having sex with me out of love (because it feels like the opposite of love), maybe I only have sex when I feel I don’t love someone. Sex for me happens when I either don’t care about someone – I feel neutral – or I actively dislike them. And they are attracted enough to me that it turns my body on, and that’s all it really is. It is a physical act that I cannot get emotionally involved in because it is permanently separated in my mind from my idea of “love.” So once he started being openly attracted to me, I started to hate him. And it was only once I hated him enough that I was able to sleep with him.

    So it’s not the guys who ruin my relationships with sex, it is me. It is a weapon a tool and an expression of hate, and I don’t know how to fix this. I feel like this is the opposite if what it is supposed to be. But even when I “think” that I am making some other choice, it always turns out in the end that this was what was going on for me all along.

    And in the end, I feel devastated because I lose all the relationships that really matter to me.

    One obvious solution is to say “well, don’t have sex.” But this isn’t really practical, because even though this happens, my libido is still high. I still want to have sex and I crave it. But I feel like a black widow spider, or a preying mantis who bites the heads off her mates right when she is done with them. I feel vicious and dangerous, even though I literally never go in with this intention.

    In the beginning of the weekend, I was having so much fun. I liked him. I was maybe even falling in love. And that’s always deadly for me…and all the people I care about



  36.  #36LoveToMe on April 18, 2016 at 8:24 am

    Indigo (27) – that sounds so wonderful with J! What a happy feeling! I can really sense your joy and contentment and relaxation with this man. You’ve worked hard to be able to experience this. May we all get there – those of us that haven’t already!



  37.  #37LoveToMe on April 18, 2016 at 8:38 am

    One thing I’ve noticed – with two of the guys I’ve most recently been sort of “involved” with, they both seemed to be interested in “being taken care of.” Quite frankly, I find this idea off-putting. Because of everything we talk about here. My natural inclination is to “take care of” people – often to my own detriment. The hardest thing for me to do is to take care of myself and/or let myself BE taken care of. I’ve worked on it for years, and I’m still resisting it.

    So the idea of being with a guy who wants me to “take care of” him feels unnecessary and even a little bit sexist in a ’50s-housewife kind of way. And I really don’t want that.

    I want the “modern siren” version, feminism 2.0, where we are women and we let our man take care of US, because even if he doesn’t know it going in, doing this actually begins to fill all of his needs. By taking care of me, I.e. The woman in his life, he automatically is taken care of. We both are.

    Some men do know this, instinctively. But that is why I feel I resist a man who wants me to be his caretaker. I will already want to do that. So if that is his goal, it means that he will drain me, I will never feel fulfilled, and in the end, he won’t experience what he is looking for, either…



  38.  #38Azure Blu on April 18, 2016 at 9:20 am

    Tee #32
    I like the idea of a “Treat Tee” list!!!

    I know Rori certainly advocates that…

    I too struggle with taking time for me… although I have learned to make sure I get at least half a day on the weekends to ONLY do lazy… bring back my energy… things…
    sometimes that involves… housework (relieving the stress of those things hanging over my head by getting *it* done)
    Sometimes it involves me laying on the couch for hours with a few good magazines, books and a good movie!



  39.  #39Indigo on April 18, 2016 at 9:55 am

    Azure Blu 30,

    For ME, I find I don’t even realise how much I have missed real conversation until I have it. I think maybe we become so acclimatised to small talk in everyday, and I know I have always tolerated that in my relationships. But having someone I can actually talk to, someone who looks deep into my eyes and knows what I’m saying, someone I can go as deep as I like with, talk about absolutely any topic with, no matter how out there, is so wonderful. It’s so wonderful in fact that I have to open up to it slowly because I’m so used to holding back.

    On our very first date J looked continuously deep into my eyes and spent much of the time just gazing at me. This has never happened to me before. I’m used to a much shallower interaction and much more reserve from men. But opening up feels absolutely lovely.

    It’s not only that, but he also understands what it’s like to be anxious, and to battle with many of the same frustrations I battle with, so it introduces a whole new level of intimacy in your relationship.

    Many, many men are scared of being vulnerable and opening up, and some of them take a very long time of safety to do so, so maybe your Spirit is one of these…



  40.  #40Indigo on April 18, 2016 at 9:57 am

    Love to Me 35,

    Thank you for this. If you read back over old blog post comments, you will see that I have gone through a tremendous amount of pain and a lot of heartbreak and learning experiences to get to where I am now.



  41.  #41Beloved on April 18, 2016 at 11:07 am

    Omg leaning back and FM’s work so great! I have still been talking to LankyCD and I finally feel this pattern may be played out.
    My house that I just moved into is flooding right noe, thr water outside is hip deep.
    Lanky and I chatted a bit about some stuff and I really, really GOT the imaginariness of the whole thing.
    While Lanky was telling me all about how he thinks I’m fragile and it’s frustrating to him, my super bright shiny friends and family were all checking in like crazy, offering help and support. Even some people I felt totally surprised to hear from!
    And theb here’s Lanky talking about how we will have time to hang out this summer. Omg it’s my busy season, too! And I’m laughing, thinking, this guy thinks I will be available this summer?
    Lol

    Meanwhile I’m bailing water out of my car, and moving furniture to the one room that isn’t flooding, and feeling so happy and joyful and supported. People at work are really noticing me and so much positive energy is being generated in my other relationships.

    omg Rori if your advice is dangerous, it’s mostly dangerous for unhealthy and imaginary relationships!

    Happythankyoumoreplease



  42.  #42Dixie on April 18, 2016 at 12:41 pm

    Indigo…..

    …. I so want to chime in here with all the conversations but report cards are holding me hostage 🙂

    But thank you Indigo… So much! Yes, “ghosting” for a few days (2 or 3) may not seem like much time to him , but it feels uncomfortable to me, especially after periods of great closeness.

    He did call last night, annnnd, my feelings showed up in my voice. The conversation felt strained, hurting. He called as soon as his meeting was over, and I told him
    that I appreciated that. But, he’s going thorough something right now, he didn’t want to talk about it, so I tried to stay open. To his credit, and I’m not making excuses, I know that this was a killer weekend for him because he was working, and my triggers were raring to go.

    I know he’s a man who values closeness as well from our past together….. I am curious if this new level of closeness is testing us both. In the past, I pulled back out of fear and I know it caused him to hurt. I don’t want that to happen again. And, when I told him how I felt last night, he didn’t pull back either or get defensive.

    We just stayed present. And I breathed my way through it. I agree with you….. If this is going to be “normal”, then no, it doesn’t feel good.

    We haven’t had a real chance to stand in the middle of all these triggers, so I’m curious how our relationship unfolds through this. I’m just going to focus on keeping myself centred for now.

    Thank you, thank you. I SO love your input and insight Indigo!!



  43.  #43Tee on April 18, 2016 at 1:55 pm

    #37, Azure Blue I think I may need to play around with this a bit. I’m feeling discontent, like somehow…I haven’t quite accomplished something.

    Im seeing that although it’s theoretically an awesome thing (My “Treat Tee List” …I don’t feel awesome just yet lol

    I picked up my book. “Yes Man” by Danny Wallace (hope that doesn’t get me into trouble) the Jim Carrey movie was inspired by this book. I felt like I needed inspiration & maybe I should say YES more often so I bought the book!

    My default/introvert setting is always
    *no
    *I can’t because…
    *I don’t feel like it because…
    *I would but….

    I’m almost always laying around with a good book, movie or magazine lol

    I think that I’m in transition

    Having 2 very active guys in my life may be changing me

    I’m somewhere in the middle these days between activity & “inactivity” (reading books & lounging, etc)

    It’s odd, it feels confusing lol

    I know that there’s no quiz involved but it’s comical



  44.  #44Azure Blu on April 18, 2016 at 2:00 pm

    Dixie #41
    I so know what you are saying:
    “We haven’t had a real chance to stand in the middle of all these triggers,
    so I’m curious how our relationship unfolds through this.
    I’m just going to focus on keeping myself centred for now. ”

    This happened to Spirit and I a couple of weeks ago…
    It was our 3rd month of being exclusive (we usually get agitated and either him or I break up around this time)

    We had both needed to take a break after a lot of close together time…
    we were missing each other…wondering what was wrong…
    BUT I stayed leaned back… I’m now much stronger on the inside than ever before…
    focusing ON MY need for space…
    Letting him lead…
    He would call and text everyday… but didn’t ask to get together… and neither did I because I knew I needed time to think and do *ME*

    Sure enough he said… “It’s been 3 days!!” that’s the longest we haven’t seen each other in awhile!!

    and I hadn’t put pressure On him or me…
    He hadn’t freaked out and stopped contacting…

    We managed to see our way through this need for space
    and BOTH of us felt reinvigorated and ready
    for more intimacy!!
    As you so well said… We managed to stand in the middle of our triggers
    and come out feeling good!!!



  45.  #45Dixie on April 18, 2016 at 3:41 pm

    Oh Azure,

    Thank you for sharing that!!

    I know that Gay Hendricks talks a lot about attracting people in our lives, who in some way, whether we recognize it or not, are there to help us “heal” a part of us that needs healing. Hence, why patterns emerge…

    I can see my deep insecurities about being loved show up in this relationship, but… But, with the tools here, my self love and acceptance has grown so much that the way D and I interact now is far, far, far different than even a year ago.

    He has his own issues because I can see his triggers really clearly too. And in the past, he’s shared his insecurities with me and the level of closeness really just….well. When his guard is down, my heart overflows with love for him for letting me in.

    So yes, this whole “standing still” in the middle of this is new, and feels good, in that it can give us a chance to grow and expand, and THAT feels tremendously exciting!



  46.  #46Liquid Light on April 18, 2016 at 6:12 pm

    Curious to get your thoughts on this ladies…

    K and I went to an art opening and were having a great time. Then at some point he said that he wanted to introduce me to someone. He had been meeting people all night so I figured it was someone that he had just met. She was talking to someone else and he went up to her and tried to introduce me. But she didn’t see us. He then said we should move to be in her line of sight. She looked at us and he introduced me. I shook her hand and said hello and didn’t think twice about it. But then I noticed she looked upset. K and her stepped aside and had a private conversation.

    When he came back, he told me that they had dated 2 years ago for about 3 or 4 months. And that she was “chaotic” and her place was “chaotic”. I said the whole thing was pretty awkward and he acknowledged it was and also said that it “had to be done”. Anyway, she looked really upset and I felt really weird about the interaction but kinda brushed it aside. Now I’m wondering if its a big red flag, a little red flag or not a red flag???



  47.  #47Dixie on April 18, 2016 at 6:52 pm

    Liquid light…..

    This makes me squirm uncomfortably actually. It feels like a strange thing to me. I would feel weird too.

    The only thing I can suggest is sometimes we’re really quick to brush aside our intuitive feelings. If something felt “off”, I’d trust that feeling.

    I don’t understand why, if they dated 2 years ago, she is still on his radar. I don’t know dear Siren. This really triggers a red flag for me for many reasons.

    I’m also curious to hear what others observe in this situation…..



  48.  #48Millie on April 18, 2016 at 7:26 pm

    Femininewoman, Azure, Indigo, and Dixie:

    thank you all for sharing that I sound more like I am developing new awareness! This makes me feel better about the journey I am on and how I have been feeling lately! Thank you!!

    Lovetome 36–
    I am curious as to how these men are “asking” you to take care of them? I have been listening a lot to Dr. Pat Allen lately and one of the first questions she asks people is “do you want to be the sperm or the egg?” Do you want to be the masculine role or the female role in the relationship? There are masculine energy women who work well with feminine energy men. It sounds to me like maybe you are attracting feminine energy men, and if you are a woman working towards being in her feminine energy, then these men are not the right “energy” for you. Dr. Pat talks a lot about the difference in these energies and perhaps knowing the difference would help you here.



  49.  #49Indigo on April 18, 2016 at 10:49 pm

    Liquid Light 45,

    Not a red flag.

    I actually take it as a good thing, to be honest.



  50.  #50LoveToMe on April 19, 2016 at 5:48 am

    Oh, Millie – yes, I’m quite familiar with that idea. I think about sperms and eggs a lot ; )

    When I say that men are “asking” me to take care of them, I mean just that. They are literally asking me.

    I love Rori’s teaching, and no, I don’t think it is harmful – IF you know how to read it with a dose of your own wisdom. In the case of masculine/feminine, I don’t believe it’s helpful to classify people as all one of the other. None of us is.

    In fact, I would make the argument that the BEST kind of man – masculine man – for us to be with is one who is in touch with and not AFRAID of his feminine type qualities (nurturing, emotional, etc.) These men know how to relate to us better and actually serve their MASCULINE role better. Conversely, a man who is afraid of his own feminine aspects shows up as a misogynist who will love us at first, but in the end will never be happy with us because he rejects everything we represent to him – and we will be miserable. We need a man who is masculine BECAUSE he accepts the “feminine” parts of him. Yin-yang style.

    Similarly, I think this kind of speaks to what the writer was talking about when she wrote her letter to Rori. These urges we have – to reach out, to “take care of,” to make, do, plan – they are very natural to us. Suppressing this activity entirely and denying ourselves this outlet makes us miserable. That is why Rori suggests we let our “inner boy” take care of us. And other things like that. In order to be fully evolved women, we need to accept and love ALSO this masculine part of ourselves. Otherwise we show up as incomplete. And we may want our partners to fill this void, but they can’t.

    Maybe I am only speaking for myself. But I really think this is important for all of us, and the formulaic mixture of feminine/masculine aspects for each woman, each man, each HUMAN is going to be slightly different, person to person. We have to discover where WE are on the continuum – but where someone else is that we like, or try to nudge ourselves to someplace we think we “should” be.

    Back to your question, Millie – what does it mean that these guys (MASCULINE guys, I should add) are showing up and requesting that I “take care” of them?

    1. Maybe it doesn’t mean anything. Maybe they are just asking. Maybe it doesn’t mean that I have to do it ; )

    2. Does it truly mean that I have a hyper-masculine expression? I don’t feel strong about that answer. It does not sit with me in a “true” way. But it could be mirroring something else.

    3. Is it the case that I have men’s problem, only in reverse? If men hating their own femininity spreads misogyny, could it be that I in fact hate and reject my own masculine qualities, and therefore I experience misandry (hatred of men?) Coujr be. This one sits with me in a way that seemed to make more sense. I agree that being in a more feminine role is what I am after. But I have spent a lot of time and energy “accepting” my feminine self. Maybe to the detriment of my “masculine” aspects. Maybe this “guy” in me needs a form of expression – specifically in order for me to be a fully expressed WOMAN.

    All the women I can think of that I admire have a fluid and seamless integration of their personal make/female qualities that does NOT negate their existence as women. It supports it. They are happier. They have better relationships, better careers. They are moms.

    We need ALL of ourselves



  51.  #51LoveToMe on April 19, 2016 at 5:49 am

    Oh, Millie – yes, I’m quite familiar with that idea. I think about sperms and eggs a lot ; )

    When I say that men are “asking” me to take care of them, I mean just that. They are literally asking me.

    I love Rori’s teaching, and no, I don’t think it is harmful – IF you know how to read it with a dose of your own wisdom. In the case of masculine/feminine, I don’t believe it’s helpful to classify people as all one of the other. None of us is.

    In fact, I would make the argument that the BEST kind of man – masculine man – for us to be with is one who is in touch with and not AFRAID of his feminine type qualities (nurturing, emotional, etc.) These men know how to relate to us better and actually serve their MASCULINE role better. Conversely, a man who is afraid of his own feminine aspects shows up as a misogynist who will love us at first, but in the end will never be happy with us because he rejects everything we represent to him – and we will be miserable. We need a man who is masculine BECAUSE he accepts the “feminine” parts of him. Yin-yang style.

    Similarly, I think this kind of speaks to what the writer was talking about when she wrote her letter to Rori. These urges we have – to reach out, to “take care of,” to make, do, plan – they are very natural to us. Suppressing this activity entirely and denying ourselves this outlet makes us miserable. That is why Rori suggests we let our “inner boy” take care of us. And other things like that. In order to be fully evolved women, we need to accept and love ALSO this masculine part of ourselves. Otherwise we show up as incomplete. And we may want our partners to fill this void, but they can’t.

    Maybe I am only speaking for myself. But I really think this is important for all of us, and the formulaic mixture of feminine/masculine aspects for each woman, each man, each HUMAN is going to be slightly different, person to person. We have to discover where WE are on the continuum – but where someone else is that we like, or try to nudge ourselves to someplace we think we “should” be.

    Back to your question, Millie – what does it mean that these guys (MASCULINE guys, I should add) are showing up and requesting that I “take care” of them?

    1. Maybe it doesn’t mean anything. Maybe they are just asking. Maybe it doesn’t mean that I have to do it ; )

    2. Does it truly mean that I have a hyper-masculine expression? I don’t feel strong about that answer. It does not sit with me in a “true” way. But it could be mirroring something else.

    3. Is it the case that I have men’s problem, only in reverse? If men hating their own femininity spreads misogyny, could it be that I in fact hate and reject my own masculine qualities, and therefore I experience misandry (hatred of men?) Coujr be. This one sits with me in a way that seemed to make more sense. I agree that being in a more feminine role is what I am after. But I have spent a lot of time and energy “accepting” my feminine self. Maybe to the detriment of my “masculine” aspects. Maybe this “guy” in me needs a form of expression – specifically in order for me to be a fully expressed WOMAN.

    All the women I can think of that I admire have a fluid and seamless integration of their personal male/female qualities that does NOT negate their existence as women. It supports it. They are happier. They have better relationships, better careers. They are moms.

    We need ALL of ourselves



  52.  #52Azure Blu on April 19, 2016 at 6:51 am

    Liquid Light #45
    I tend to agree with Indigo on this situation with K.

    I thought it seemed he wanted to introduce you to an ex… He didn’t want to avoid the situation…
    He wanted her to acknowledge he was there
    WITH YOU…
    I’d be thrilled…
    You felt the vibe that she still has feelings for him… My thoughts are…He wanted HER to know… that nothing can happen between him and her.

    I know I have been places with guys and have managed to NOT introduce them to people… just cause the CDs weren’t very important to me…

    When Spirit and I were going out for the first year…
    he NEVER introduced me to ANYONE who came up and talked to him (male or female) or he talked to…

    I didn’t say anything about it… one of Rori’s mantra’s.
    But it sure wasn’t very polite!!???
    obviously in Spirit’s mind he was JUST dating me… no big deal!

    BUT NOW he introduces me to EVERYONE!! :-))
    Ahhh… things do change…



  53.  #53Azure Blu on April 19, 2016 at 6:58 am

    (((Beloved))) #40
    Ohhh… gosh!! I hope you are drying out now…
    That sounds like TOO MUCH WATER!!!

    Hang in there darling Siren…
    “here comes the sun… little darling… it’s been a long, long lonely winter… Here comes the sun little darling… it seems like years since it’s been clear…
    Here comes the sun…”



  54.  #54Indigo on April 19, 2016 at 7:41 am

    Azure Blu 51,

    Exactly.

    The fact he wants her to know he’s there with you says EVERYTHING. It’s a very good sign. The fact that she is upset has absolutely nothing to do with him.

    I remember when we’d been dating only for about 2 weeks asking J about a particular girl that he knew who had caused discomfort for me in a previous relationship (it’s a small town) when she came up in conversation. I was interested in what his response would be and what I could gauge from it. He told me that this girl had come onto him several times, almost every time she sees him and he has no interest in her at all. He said he was due to have a get together at his house soon and he said “don’t worry I won’t invite her.” Then he said, “Actually maybe it would be good for her to see me with you, maybe she would stop bothering me.”

    I was THRILLED with this response. It made me feel very safe and secure.

    Liquid Light, the fact that he has described this girl as “chaotic” tells you everything you need to know about his opinion of her.



  55.  #55Azure Blu on April 19, 2016 at 8:15 am

    Indigo #53
    I LOVE how easily J can talk to you about things!!
    How lovely for you to hear “he has NO interest in her at all!!”
    interesting that she is VERY Masculine by “Always coming onto him!!”
    Sooo happy how things with J just keep getting better for you!!!
    oxoxo



  56.  #56Millie on April 19, 2016 at 8:32 am

    Lovetome–

    Yes I agree that no person is only one energy, we are all both on a continum. I also agree that the man I want to be with is primarily masculine energy but is also accepting of his feminine. My father is like that. I am thinking of calling in and asking her to explain what an alpha male really is. I thought it was a very driven and masculine man, but I was listening to her archives and she also defined it as a man who is in touch with his feminine as well. I feel curious about all of this.



  57.  #57Liquid Light on April 19, 2016 at 10:06 am

    Dixie, Indigo, Azure,

    Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on my situation with K. I really appreciate it, its so helpful!

    I see what you mean, that its a good sign that he was trying to show is ex that he is with me. I get that and on some level I appreciate that. I didn’t feel threatened by her as much as I felt awkward about how the incident unfolded.

    My ex was a very vindictive person and I’m worried that K may have some similar qualities? Why did he feel like he had to go out of his way (interrupting a conversation!) to introduce us? On some level, it felt like he was trying to get back at her. Maybe she hurt him and he wanted to retaliate by showing her he was with someone new and hurting her back?

    If that’s the case, it would give me pause. I didn’t see the red flags with my ex although they were there. He did some very mean things to other people and I swept those under the rug. Ultimately, I became the target of his vindictiveness and it was awful. I feel like I ignored many red flags along the way and I don’t want to do that again. I’m wondering if I’m just recreating the same dynamic as I had with my ex, repeating the same pattern???

    The other thing that concerned me was why would he date someone for that long if she was “chaotic”. What does that say about him?

    Anyway, I’m just trying to get some perspective on this and really appreciate your feedback and take on this bizarre incident. I told a girlfriend about it over the weekend and she thought it might be something to be concerned about too….so I don’t know…



  58.  #58Indigo on April 19, 2016 at 10:40 am

    Azure Blu 54,

    I love it too. He is absolutely an open book. Extremely straight with me and extremely honest. It builds a lot of trust.



  59.  #59Starla on April 19, 2016 at 12:46 pm

    Liquid Light,
    It’s a weird experience but I don’t think it’s a red flag.
    Just awkward as heck :D.



  60.  #60LoveToMe on April 19, 2016 at 2:26 pm

    Millie – yeah, it’s super interesting, and I’m glad you made me think of it.

    Honestly, I think Rori does encourage us to accept ALL of ourselves – including “masculine” parts – and that allows us to acknowledge them, and then CHOOSE to act or not act, with confidence. At least that’s how I would read it (and choosing to not-act can be a silent, feminine, strong act. It is not always “passive.”)

    I was thinking about clothes, recently. When I was younger, in my teens, and experimenting with the clothes I wore, I loved – loved! Wearing men’s clothes. Specifically, men’s pants. I got a kick out of buying men’s pants and wearing girly printed shirts. Then I would also wear these big, bright, crazy dresses. I was expressing both masculine and feminine, but somehow the men’s pants made me feel even more feminine, because I was female insure the pants. The pants didn’t change my gender. It elucidated it.

    It was something like when you hold a dark thing up next to a light thing – there was more contrast. Wearing girly things feels good, but it’s light-on-light. Sometimes I really want that interplay of energy. Maybe I need to play with this some more. In a way that feels good to me now, of course. My tastes have changed…



  61.  #61LoveToMe on April 19, 2016 at 2:26 pm

    *insude the pants.

    I got into my own pants.

    Ha! ; )



  62.  #62LoveToMe on April 19, 2016 at 2:27 pm

    *inside.

    Agh



  63.  #63Azure Blu on April 19, 2016 at 2:55 pm

    Liquid Light…
    for me… 4-5 months is just enough time to find out
    she IS chaotic…
    You can’t really tell much about a person even in that amount of time… and if she acted weird a few times…
    he seems like such nice guy… he gave her a few more chances… and then got out!

    Don’t forget… It’s been 2 years since K was with this person!

    Last weekend I saw an ex (when I was with Spirit at a dance bar) and it felt REALLY good that he saw me there- Happy and with a handsome man having fun!!
    I think we all my be a bit “too bad for you!”

    Nice to know K ‘s not into chaos…

    Also… have you taken a look at YOUR trigger around
    vindictive… Did you do the “worksheet” on this?

    Always bring it back to us… CDing–Your FREE therapy!

    I know for me… the closer I get to a “nice” guy (which is NOT my normal) I get more and more picky and start pushing the guy away…
    FEAR of intimacy makes me do strange things…



  64.  #64BeLoved on April 19, 2016 at 6:34 pm

    Today I felt so agitated that I had been abrupt with Lanky yesterday. Things my mind was telling me I ‘should have’ or ‘could have’ said.

    I stayed with myself, and all of the mind-chatter surrounding how I handled things, breathed deep and affirmed that I TOTALLY love, honor and accept myself however I handled it. I felt panicky at the thought of being at peace with it! More breathing…

    I cried for a while, because it really hurt my heart to end things with him. I wanted to apologize for being so abrupt, for maybe seeming crazy, I wanted to explaiiiinnnnn.

    After the cry I felt way more clearheaded. I apologized so hard to my own self and imagined butterfly soft kisses all over my aching heart. I loved myself for handling things the way I did. Then I saw…the flip-flopping, the ‘forgetting’ that I had already said no to something, the back-and-forth, and then feeling bad for being done, I believe it’s a symptom of co-dependency. Feeling terrible and that I’ve done something wrong for enforcing boundaries.

    Dr. Pat Allen says that if we leave in anger we are doomed to repeat the lesson and I hope, I hope, I hope I get the lesson somehow without repeating this. I believe I was feeling angry with myself for reaching out to someone for love and getting stung feelings instead, which brought up all of the reasons why it wasn’t a good idea to be talking to him anyway.

    I saw that him asking to ‘talk things out’ gave the message that my boundaries were up for negotiation. I believed maybe I was wrong, too uptight, rigid, no fun, too harsh and he was reflecting those beliefs to me and playing on those insecurities, which served his purposes but not mine.

    Also…this pattern of feeling like EVERYONE else is more important than me, of trying to get love and attention from someone who says they care about me, seem to have genuine feelings for me, but are busy trying to impress everyone else…OMG, I realized that from childhood. Mother stuff…my mother will go to the END OF THE EARTH to impress someone else, but her own family, noooo. If a woman in her garden club would turn up with celiac disease, she would print books and books of gluten-free recipes and make every dish she could for every meeting. But me? Her own daughter? Nooo, she gets confused, doesn’t know how to cook that way, doesn’t understand what gluten is. Well, I take that back, that’s how it was but the past several months have been different. So yeah, I saw this was mother stuff and by leaning back as much as I could and loving myself, I found that young part of myself that totally idolized my mother. I thought she was The Coolest. She was the 1st female cable repair tech in the area and I loved watching her put on her climbers and climb poles, climb 40 ft. ladders, wear her tool pouch, all of that stuff. I felt into the parts of me that are like my mom in those ways and loved the ways we are alike and felt that little girl love for my mom that was locked away so long ago when I learned she could hurt me.

    So, lots of healing and lessons and experience here.



  65.  #65BeLoved on April 19, 2016 at 7:09 pm

    ohhh, I so feel it still…part of me wants to explain, wants to say things the ‘right’ way.
    I feel so willing to release this push-pull dynamic from my consciousness…oy.



  66.  #66BeLoved on April 19, 2016 at 7:12 pm

    The thing that he said that stung my heart to hear, I do wonder, if it brought up some deep shame of some sort, for feeling so much and wanting more from someone who doesn’t have time for me, and if that’s why I felt the compulsion to END IT RIGHT THEN.

    Whatever it is…universe please show me the way to heal, I am so willing to release these patterns.

    Thank you thank you thank you <3



  67.  #67Daria on April 19, 2016 at 7:19 pm

    Big Hugs to Rori



  68.  #68Azure Blu on April 20, 2016 at 5:22 am

    ((((Beloved))))
    I love hearing about the young girl that LOVED her Mom…
    and the things that you so admire about your Mom…

    I had forgotten about that girl in me-
    when I was young, I did think for many years, My Mom was the coolest and adored her dearly…
    until I got to be a teenager and older and realized she was human – and wasn’t Perfect – like I had thought… AND I got VERY ANGRY (Rage)
    I too had to run after my mothers love…
    and repeated this pattern for years with men and all my relationships- pushing people away… doing horrible things… then running after them to get them back!! UGGHH!! even when I realized what I was doing…
    I couldn’t stop myself!

    I see now, that my Mother struggled greatly with having to take care of 3 daughters and a husband (who was bipolar) and she suffered from deep depression and had several nervous breakdowns (was never hospitalized) but turned to religion.

    I have had a lifetime of therapy – trying to break the chain of all of this – so my children wouldn’t have to repeat all of this in their lives…
    and finally finding Rori… whos Tools make soooo much since to ME…
    and Brought me to LOVING ME…
    Which has brought me so much PEACE and freedom from all the chains that were binding me…
    It is a lifelong journey… but THIS all feels so much better EVERYDAY!!!



  69.  #69Liquid Light on April 21, 2016 at 10:18 am

    Azure 61,

    You all may be “too bad for me”…LOL so funny!!!

    Maybe you are right though. Maybe this isn’t something to get too concerned about. There’s part of me that secretly kind of liked the ballsy-ness of what he did. One of the issues that has come up for us is that I’m struggling with feeling attracted to him. I think its because of his feminine qualities. But he’s actually very masculine in planning awesome dates, picking me up, taking me out, etc. I wonder if he is a little conflicted about his masculinity though because sometimes he almost undermines it by being more feminine. In fact he even said he has a strong feminine side at one point in one of our early dates. This was a big turn-off and I could feel my attraction for him lessen.

    The other night when we went out, he was really upset about something that had happened. He said he had been “balling” about it. Another big turnoff. I saw a very emotional side to him that I didn’t like. He seemed really worked up and the whole evening was tainted by his hyper/manic energy. I know I”m being judgmental but there it is. It wasn’t a very fun night.

    But yesterday I had a really intense interview and we talked about it in the evening. It was great to have him really listen to me and care about how the whole thing played out. It meant a lot to me.

    So I dunno. Lots of plusses and negatives…



  70.  #70Azure Blu on April 21, 2016 at 11:27 am

    Liquid Light…
    Yeah I agree! Super balsy the way he took control of the situation at the gallery opening with his ex!!!

    Mmmmm… those feminine… REALLY nice men…
    I was dating one a few months ago (dated him for 5 months) -Spirit and I were’nt exclusive…
    Drove 45 min from his house to take me back to the city for a SUPER fun date!! and then drove me back…GREAT tickets for sports events… sooo many fun adventures he planned… BUT
    Still I struggled with ANY attraction…
    he would whine… he wanted me to be exclusive bu I wasn’t ready….and his voice was soooo feminine!!!
    I got to practice receiving wonderful things from him… sharing my feelings AND major distraction from Spirit…

    By then Spirit started stepping up and
    acting like a REAL boyfriend…
    Sooo, 5 months later I broke it off with RM-

    Are you CDing others? I would try that…
    you’re supposed to have at least 2-3 in your rotation…
    I did that off and on and Learned sooo much about ME, my boundaries… my triggers… my controlling ways… :-))
    Remember HE IS Practice!!
    You’re doing FANTASTIC!!!



  71.  #71Liquid Light on April 21, 2016 at 11:59 am

    Azure,

    Yes that does sound similar! Yes, I am CDing…thanks for the reminder to keep doing it! 🙂 And for the encouragement! 🙂

    whining, so unattractive…bleh!

    we are going to another really fun event this weekend! he comes up with the best ideas for dates! 🙂 Sometimes he seems more like a good friend though…hmm wonder if it would make any sense to mention some of this to him, or would it just make him defensive and put a wall up???



  72.  #72Azure Blu on April 21, 2016 at 12:05 pm

    Liquid Light….
    Ohhh… sounds like great practice… when you feel ready…
    I know I shared several things that I found concerning, with RM… Wish I would have practiced more…
    BUT now I have Spirit to practice with!
    I’m sooooo bad at sharing my feelings!!
    But it is such an intimacy builder!
    Yay us and Sharing our feelings!!
    oxoxo



  73.  #73Liquid Light on April 21, 2016 at 1:02 pm

    Azure,

    Yes, so true! I’m realizing that I haven’t been that authentic with him so far. I guess I was trying to put my best foot forward, and also trying not to be judgmental. But its a bit of a fine line between being judgmental and being authentic and true to oneself?. I dunno. That’s a tough one for me. Any thoughts?

    Yes, it might be interesting to have an honest discussion with him about some of these thoughts/feelings. Might be the beginning of the end though? But maybe not???



  74.  #74Indigo on April 21, 2016 at 10:31 pm

    Liquid Light 72,

    My own feelings on the subject are that it’s great to be authentic, but if it sounds like criticism to a man, you might want to think twice before expressing it to him, especially this early on. Remember the beginning stages are not supposed to be about being invested in the outcome, rather just observing what he does and who he is. Personally I think if you said something which made it sound like his effort put him in the friend zone, he would pull back on making so much effort. I also don’t really feel you can have a conversation with a man about him being too emotional, this is just who he is.

    Sorry Liquid Light, I hope you get the gist of what I’m saying. I just feel very strongly we need to allow men to unfold naturally, and not try to use feeling messages to get them to change who they are.

    I’d say if you’re enjoying yourself, go with it, see if something develops over time. However if you’re not having a good time, it’s a no brainer. Give him a chance but don’t feel like you have to stick to this one man. There are plenty of other ones out there 🙂



  75.  #75Indigo on April 21, 2016 at 10:44 pm

    On the subject of men who cry, I used to find this a real turn off. Have always found this a real turn off, I think I even wrote about it here on the blog once.

    However the other day something happened which really hurt J (not anything to do with me), and I understood why it hurt him, and he told me that he cried a few times over it. But it didn’t turn me off at all, in fact it endeared him to me so much. But I think it’s because he’s so masculine in other ways, he’s such a strong person in the way he thinks about things and takes care of me. And also because I understood the emotion behind why he cried, I would have felt the same way, that it just felt like endearing vulnerability. When I don’t feel connected to a person or I feel like I don’t understand them, their emotions are more likely to be annoying to me.



  76.  #76Victoria on April 22, 2016 at 12:03 am

    Indigo 72,
    I was thinking about what you said, I don’t think I have actually been with any man whom I found over-emotional, for one reason of another, I tend to date really “hard” men. I have seen a few cry, but in each and every case it was over something that would make me cry just as well, so no turn off there. Actually, I think on several occasions I felt that I wish I could see some emotion in them, but they were all seeming hard-wired to suck it up and endure.
    At the same time, I have had a few cases when I saw stupity in the man I dated, and I was very tempted to try to correct it (like by poining out that he needs to get more education in the area or trying to explain something to him) whereas now I realize that it is a personality trait that can not be corrected by a romantic parner, and I should have just noted it and left the man. Somehow, I did not want to make this a deal breaker… but now I know that it is for me.



  77.  #77Indigo on April 22, 2016 at 1:49 am

    Victoria,

    I totally understand.

    I have got to the point where I know more or less the qualities which will make me feel happy and comfortable with a man, and if they are not present I have no interest in changing them, or trying to. I want a relationship that is easy and accepting, where you don’t grate on each other, and that’s exactly what I have now. When I think of all the times I tried to “coach” a man or agonised over something which just simply didn’t gel with me, I want to cringe.

    Intellectual curiosity and a desire to develop and grow is extremely important to me too in a partner.



  78.  #78Azure Blu on April 22, 2016 at 6:03 am

    Liquid Light…
    I feel in agreement with what Indigo said in #73

    It’s a little like what you are saying…
    You are enjoying yourself…
    You’re observing how YOU feel when your with him
    and when your not with him…
    AND continuing to CD…

    It is REALLY early… but still… When you feel something its great practice to share with him…

    Like with RM- We were on a date and he saw a picture of a pretty woman in a window downtown…
    he said “Ohhhh… I’d like to talk to her!!!”
    I was sooo turned OFF!! I told him…
    “I feel VERY turned off when you said that…”
    and he apologized.
    Small things like that are GREAT practice!! :-))

    Indigo said:
    “I’d say if you’re enjoying yourself, go with it,
    see if something develops over time.
    However if you’re not having a good time, it’s a no brainer.
    Give him a chance but don’t feel like you have to stick to this one man. There are plenty of other ones out there “



  79.  #79Liquid Light on April 22, 2016 at 9:51 am

    Yeah, he kinda does grate on my nerves at times. He laughs a lot like a girl would at things that aren’t funny and his sense of humor I often can’t really relate to. The fact that I find him annoying is probably not a good sign. LOL

    I don’t really mind if a man crys either. My ex cried a few times in my presence and it didn’t turn me off at all, in fact I found it quite endearing. But with K when he said he was “balling” I found that to be a big turnoff. Crying is one thing but balling? That’s what women do.

    Anyway, we’ve got a really fun date planned tomorrow and I’m excited about it. Its another art related event, we both really enjoy those and this one should be exceptional!

    As far as there being plenty of other men out there, sure there are, but are there plenty of men that are smart, successful, generous and that I have a lot of important things in common with (e.g. love of art)? Not so much.



  80.  #80Liquid Light on April 22, 2016 at 11:24 am

    Azure,

    Like with RM- We were on a date and he saw a picture of a pretty woman in a window downtown…
    he said “Ohhhh… I’d like to talk to her!!!”
    I was sooo turned OFF!! I told him…
    “I feel VERY turned off when you said that…”
    and he apologized.
    Small things like that are GREAT practice!! :-))

    Love this!!! Love that you stood up for yourself and said something! You go girl. That is so inspiring.

    Indigo,

    I tend to agree with you. Its too early to bring this stuff up and probably not fair to him. He is who he is. Maybe I can inspire him to want to bring out his more masculine side. But probably talking about it will feel like criticism to him and won’t help.

    Thanks to both of you for your thoughts on this! 🙂



  81.  #81Dana on April 26, 2016 at 7:51 pm

    Rori,

    Your advice isn’t dangerous….it’s BRILLIANT!!!

    Your advice also….CHANGED my life!!!!

    THANK YOU…BEYOND WORDS!!!



  82.  #82Asia on May 5, 2016 at 9:43 am

    I need help. Ive been crying for help for so long in so many different ways to so many people but no one is there. I am not suicidal but I feel like I’m about to fall apart completely. I thought I was a strong person. Everything I read here makes sense. I tried it all. But for some reason something is not clicking. I almost got involved in what could’ve been a scary situation. I have looked for psychological help but I think my area lacks good doctor’s (plus insurance is difficult). I don’t know what to do.



  83.  #83Liquid Light on May 5, 2016 at 11:14 am

    Asia

    I am so sorry to hear that you are going through this very difficult time. We have all been there at one point or another.

    Even though you aren’t suicidal, it might be helpful to call one of those help lines. Sirens here, anyone know of how to contact one of them? I think that you need to talk to someone to get some outside perspective and realize that what you are believing about yourself is not true. Please seek some kind of counseling in any way possible! Even if you think they can’t help, it will help you to get someone else’s perspective about your situation and realize a different point of view. You can always reach someone on the phone even if they aren’t in your area.

    Secondly, I know it doesn’t seem like it right now, but in fact what you are going through is very good. Its means that you are no longer comfortable with aspects about you that aren’t working for you anymore. You are innately going through this so that you can grow. This is an enormous opportunity to transform yourself into something that you can’t even imagine now. So please trust yourself that you will make it through, that its happening for a reason, and that amazing, incredible growth will come from it. Who knows what you will be transformed into!! Try to allow yourself to go through the process, don’t fight it, and let yourself be guided through it!!

    Big hugs, Asia!

    (((((((((((((((((((((((Asia)))))))))))))))))))))))))



  84.  #84Azure Blu on May 5, 2016 at 12:42 pm

    Asia…
    Huggs and LOVE darling Siren
    I agree with all that Liquid light has said… she said it all sooo very well!

    She is soo right…. we have all been where you are and it is usually just before I make a BIG breakthrough in LOVING *ME* more!!!

    What I do when I find myself in the “soup” I try and figure out what i am feeling and LOVE those feelings…
    Are you feeling scared? Love that feeling of being scared… say it out loud… ‘I love my feeling of being scared!!”
    and I literally give myself a big hug… wrapping my arms around me and hugging…
    and the other thing i do is READ through (for hours sometimes) all of Rori’s (and other Rori coaches) Blog ARchives and the comments!
    You are doing great… give yOURSELF the love you deserve…
    You can google – suicide hot line and there are many many numbers to call… there is a national suicide hotline…
    like Liquid Light said… you may not be suicidal but still they can help you sort things out.
    We are here for you!



  85.  #85Asia on May 5, 2016 at 1:41 pm

    Liquid light,

    Thank you so much for your kind words. I am angry at myself for putting myself in that scary situation. But what you said helped, I now know I never want to be there again. I just dont understand why I did it. And im scared that if I dont understand, im going to keep doing it. Ive been there before. But this “fall” hurt more, spoke louder.

    Thanks again for your love and kindness!



  86.  #86Liquid Light on May 5, 2016 at 2:33 pm

    Asia,

    For what its worth, I was involved with a dangerous man a few years ago. We had some great times together which tainted my judgement and ability to trust my intuition. Luckily, nothing terrible happened and got out of it unharmed (at least physically). But the psychological damage took its toll. I learned a lot from the experience but it took me a long time to get there. Please be patient with yourself, what you are going through isn’t easy. Please try not to beat yourself up! The process will take time but you will learn to trust yourself more and more as time goes on.

    Also, I think what Azure suggested is a great idea. Reach out to one of the awesome coaches here. You’ve got to get out of your head and get some outside perspective. Staying in your head about this all the time is just going to mean you are going round and round in circles. I know, I’ve been there…it doesn’t work!

    I urge you to reach to a coach or a hotline…

    Also there are coaches on The Work.com that can help. If you need more info, let me know.

    Hugs,

    LL



  87.  #87Asia on May 5, 2016 at 3:39 pm

    Thank you Azure.
    Im having trouble loving my scared feeling. Im mad at myself. I knew better. I saw myself going down the path and I had no control to stop it. Not having self control and not living up to my worth took me down. I did call a psychiatrist instead of a psychologist. Waiting to hear back for an appointment. Thank you again.



  88.  #88Asia on May 5, 2016 at 5:51 pm

    “We had some great times together which tainted my judgement and ability to trust my intuition.”

    Liquid light – you took the pain from my heart and put it into words. Thank you so much! I hate that I didn’t listen to my gut. I let myself down. I let someone else control me. Everything I learned from Rori was screaming at me from my gut, why didn’t I listen to it? Why was I so weak? Im sorry Rori, I feel like I let you and all the sirens down.