It’s Never Too Late To Marry!

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My best friend Virginia Feingold Clark has a new blog (and a great new book coming out soon..) called It’s Never Too Late To Marry. Here’s the beginning of the first post – so go there, read the rest of the article and MAKE A COMMENT!!!

“I asked myself this question over and over again when I was dating and trying desperately to find a man to marry. For years I was a magnet for men who weren’t good for me, men who were not the marrying kind. I couldn’t stop myself from dating them and getting involved in unfulfilling and unhealthy relationships. I felt like a victim, a walking target for men who were narcissistic, self-centered and cruel.

Then one day I had a wake-up call. I got involved with a particularly cold and  aloof man….”

Go to and read the rest and get her started off with some comments…she’ll answer your questions there, and she’s INCREDIBLY helpful.

Virginia’s an incredible relationship coach and I’m very excited to say she’ll be my February “Interview With A Relationship Expert” — so go talk to her while she can still answer you…

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Simply Shannon on January 3, 2011 at 8:01 am

    Claiming top o’ the mountain for SLV and for myself!

    Feel like singing a song from Sound of Music…

  2.  #2rose on January 3, 2011 at 8:20 am

    please dont think i flirt .. with men…i only talk to them…that is not flirting ….i dont n eed another man in my life…i have you…2 is enought that i can handle..but you be my number 1…do you know that never said “i love you ” to anyone but you…so you special to me…i know i must have always been in love with you..but i didnt know it…untill now…i told you that i get mad one day and i get over the next day…i dont like being mad…i dont like hurting you..i guess it to much on my mine..that i pick it out on you…

  3.  #3Becca on January 3, 2011 at 9:01 am

    Trying to take these things to heart. It will take time but I will get here 🙂

  4.  #4Ella on January 3, 2011 at 9:42 am

    Jim re 97 on previous thread…

    I feel unheard / unseen.

    I feel judged then cast aside.

    I feel slightly riled up… feels like I could easily get sucked into debate but want to stay with my fem energy…

    I do feel really interested to hear your thoughts / reply to mine (and other Siren’s) posts on this topic.

    I feel curious about your view…

    What do you think?

  5.  #5Femininewoman on January 3, 2011 at 9:56 am

    Thank you RR for this. Years ago decided that if I was not married by 35 I would not marry again because it was too late. Now I know it was a limiting belief and through this journey of self discovery was able to dig up this old belief as one of the things that have hindered me. Here’s to letting go of limiting beliefs.

  6.  #6marina on January 3, 2011 at 10:54 am

    @ Femininewoman
    Yay for letting go of limiting beliefs 🙂
    I used to tell myself I never wanted to get married, so I couldn’t be divorced like my parents…

    Still not willing to be a bridezilla. But since more and more of my friends are getting married, I am slowly starting to get used to the idea that one day it will be me with the Love of my life, whomever he may be 😉

  7.  #7rose on January 3, 2011 at 11:09 am

    i used to say that this the only one i will marry…but then i feel in love all over again…the only thibg i am marry..but it was never a happy marriage but we got along for 52 years….now i met someone i truly is hard to walk out him…i cant go the hospital and teel him im leaving him….he will die….thats all he knows all these years…it is very hard..but i have to do what has to be done….i know it is hard on me..but i have no choise…my family would never talk to me …because they are close to him…

  8.  #8Nancy on January 3, 2011 at 11:28 am

    I’m doin’ it, I’m doin’ it, I’m doin’ it! I told my “boyfriend” of 2.5 years that, while he’s thinking we “don’t get along” well enough to marry, that I need to open myself to meeting other men and that I was going to start dating again. He’s angry… angry that he can’t string me along anymore. I don’t hear from him and while I miss him, standing up for myself gives me the strength I need to move forward with my own life. I feel really good almost all of the time. I’m online dating. As I posted a month or so ago, an interesting man that I don’t feel enough chemistry with yet started to pursue me, but retreated when I told him I planned to date casually until I know I’ve found the right man and am engaged. He’s back and acting feminine and resentful. He wants it to come from me, wants me to call him so he knows I’m interested, makes resentful comments, etc. I’m telling him that I want to feel feminine in my relationships with men, that if I do the calling, the planning, the driving, I don’t feel like I’m coming from my most feminine self and so I don’t feel the enjoyment of courtship. I’m telling him that I want to feel relaxed and cherished. I’m using him for practice. I’ve tried explaining why I want to continue dating until I’m engaged; tried saying that I want to take good care of myself and feel strong and good while he decides what he wants and until I know it’s right. His response is always the same – he says “That’s fine, that’s you and what I’ll do with that is to see you as someone to go out with, to have fun with and if something happens, it does; if not, then not.” He’s downgraded us to a ‘fun for now’ thing, whereas at first, he was talking marriage and kids and travel and putting me on his insurance and buying me a house. This is great! He’s showing me early on that he’s not willing to climb my wall. He’s not my man! So, I can keep dating him, practice with him, knowing he’s not my guy. I’ll keep making myself available for my man to find me.
    Rori, I love where I am and who I’ve become. I know what I want and how to keep myself open for him to find me. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

  9.  #9Katie on January 3, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Nancy – sounds like you’re in a good place! Two years plus with a man is a long time, so I am in awe that you said what you said and have moved on without any bad feelings or dramatic demos. ‘Relaxed and cherished’ that is exactly how I want to feel to know that I am with the right man for me.

  10.  #10marina on January 3, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Hello dear Sirens!

    Many many new names on the blog and so many stories of women with kids that break my heart 🙁

    I feel so sad.

    I feel like all hope is lost.

    I feel like I want to cry for them.

    And I feel like a spoilt child too.
    My problems seem so small compared to theirs. I feel ashamed to talk about what is going on in my life. I feel like I am crying over a little cut in my finger while they have heavy bleeding wounds all over them and their kids too.

    Can I flip this?

    I feel glad that I don’t have kids yet, that I am only responsible for myself. That I found this website and all of you before I have kids, before things get more difficult. That I can learn to be a Siren before I have kids, before a man and me are bonded through kids. That actually becoming a Siren now, will make my life easier and more fun later on.

    I feel that even if my story is so different, perhaps they will gain something from it too.

    I feel that I cannot close my eyes, that I have to see what the world is made off, what is going on in other peoples lives.

    I feel I want to be compassionate towards them. I see their needs, I understand they feel despair and fear.

    I want to see that they can FLIP their situation too, that they can become Sirens too and that will make them and their kids happier.

    I feel happy that they found Rori and this website.

    Ciao, Marina

  11.  #11Katie on January 3, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    I have been dating a guy for 4 months now. He drives to me, he’s always smiling and glad for my company, he listens to my point of view. He’s a good man and it does feel good to be with him most of the time and he is a ‘spiritual’ kind of guy and I feel we could have a future together.

    But I have a problem!

    In the past every time I have started to compliment a man and to show him that I accept him and tell him that he is good in my life there’s a change of dynamic. It seems like a man needs to feel like he’s always got to strive to gain compliments and acceptance and once he gets it – game over!! So I am just wondering how to go on from here? I feel uncertain and I feel fearful of pushing a good guy away by being too accepting, being too appreciative.

  12.  #12Simply Shannon on January 3, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Nancy, Hooray! I feel so happy for you. I feel happy that someone else said no to being a girlfriend even in the face of immense pressure. I love what you said! Yeah! I feel validated. I could so easily say yes to Mr. Manly Man but you’re exactly right… he can’t/won’t climb my wall. He may want me, but he doesn’t want me enough to climb my wall. Not a ding against me. Just not what he’s capable of. He’s not willing to do whatever it takes to get me. He’s not willing to pursue me against the odds. To me that says something about HIM, not me. Woot woot! Thank you! I needed to see someone else doing this. Yeah!

  13.  #13Simply Shannon on January 3, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    Marina, I feel weird reading the comment about kids. I have two of my own. They don’t feel like a burden to me. If anything, I feel happy to not have the burden of wanting to have children, i.e. no mommy clock pressure. I used to believe that having kids would be a deterrent to a relationship but now I know most men want me regardless of my mommy status.

    Ick. I feel defensive.

    I feel hopeful. I will have everything I want. It’s happening right now. I feel certain in fact that I’ll be engaged, if not married by the end of this year, to an incredible man who loves me and will love my children. My gut says this is true. Yep yep. Happening right now. Getting closer and closer.

    Excited and scared! 😉

  14.  #14Leo on January 3, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    I just felt like saying good night to you, sirens!

    Thanks for readind my posts and your wonderful advices!


  15.  #15Lori on January 3, 2011 at 2:29 pm

    thanks Shannon, I’ll repost here…

    I’m having some confusion regarding Circular Dating lately. For over 2 years I have been following the CD program. I have been doing my own thing, being open and attentive when out with a man, but letting them do the calling, making plans etc. I have been on A LOT of dates and had a few men come close to making the real commitment that I want, but none of them truly stepping up in the end.

    Recently, I have had 2 CD guys tell me that they are VERY interested in me, but had not called or made plans more often because they were waiting for me to “reciprocate” and show MY interest in THEM by calling and making plans with them, doing things for them etc after they did with me. BOTH expressed an expectation of a sort of back and forth dating scenario: they would call and make plans with me and then sit back and wait for me to do the same. BOTH said that when I did not do that, they assumed I was not very interested in them. I assured both that I was very interested but that I do not call men in a casual dating scenario. I explained that I felt more comfortable with a more traditional type of dating scenario where the man does the calling and making plans etc., and that I’d love to have more contact with both of them. They both said they respected and admired my views on dating, but neither stepped up and called more or made plans more in the weeks following and they both confronted me AGAIN with the same concerns about MY lack of interest and reciprocation. I explained my views on dating AGAIN, only to have the same behavior following that and then the same conversation with them once AGAIN. I feel like I’m talking to a brick wall sometimes! BOTH said my interest level was “hard to read” between dates even though it was obvious on our dates. I don’t feel I was being hard to read at all-I basically came right out and told them I was interested but that they would have to do the calling. (I do ALWAYS call back or text back when they call and also am very open and flirtatious when they call, but I just don’t initiate calls ever)
    They BOTH also expressed shock that I considered them casual and was dating other men, even though I’d only had 2 or 3 dates in an entire month with each of them and had only gotten one or 2 phone calls a week from each-hardly what I’d call a serious committed relationship. I certainly have been circular dating long enough to know how to do it by now, so I’m not sure if I’m just attracting men who don’t know how to pursue lately or if I’m missing something I’m supposed to be doing while circular dating. Anyone have any ideas on this? I probably should add that I live in a town that is 7 to 1 women to men and that there are A LOT of VERY aggressive women here that pursue men here, so the men here may be used to a sort of role reversal. But after flat out TELLING them I’m not like that several times, you’d think they’d get the picture!

  16.  #16Lori on January 3, 2011 at 2:32 pm

    One of the men I mentioned in the above post just called and asked me if I’d like to have dinnerwith him-right THEN!. We had the “reciprocation” conversation yesterday AGAIN when he called after not calling for a week-not even to wish me Merry Christmas or Happy New Year! It was 5pm here when he called and I have already had plans for this evening for a few days. I said to him “I’d love to have dinner with you, but I already have plans for tonight. I’m free day after tomorrow and it would feel great to see you then!” His response was “see what I mean about you being hard to read? I TRIED to ask you out but YOU said NO! How am I supposed to think you’re interested if you tell me no when I do ask?” I replied, “I didn’t say NO, I said I’d love to have dinner with you-but that I wasn’t free until day after tomorrow.” He has known me for months and knows how quickly my schedule gets booked up, but continues to ask me out last minute and then blame me for not seeming more interested when I’ve already made plans…

    I feel frustrated like I’m not understanding something or not being understood!

  17.  #17marina on January 3, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    Hi Simply Shannon,

    I am sorry I made you feel ick. I feel happy that you replied, now that I reread my post I feel that it sounds nasty and understand that you feel defensive.

    I have no idea what it is like to have kids.

    I do think about it a lot, which is like kind of having an imaginary relationship I suppose.

    All I have are the thoughts in my head of what I
    heard other people say about having kids and about relationships and dating and I have so many Nasty Voices about it in my head. They came up after reading some posts of women with children that asked Rori for help. It made me feel very triggered.

    I think that you love your children very much and I feel happy that they are no burden to you.

    And I am happy that you said that despite of what you thought, men find you attractive, regardless of your Mommy status.

    I also hope that a great man will step up for you!

    Love, Marina

  18.  #18Mercedes on January 3, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    Nancy: “while I miss him, standing up for myself gives me the strength I need to move forward with my own life.”

    I remember the day (the very minute) I felt those words as well. It’s an amazing feeling. You’ll miss him and sometimes it will be hard, but “standing up for myself gives me the strength I need…” is exactly right! 🙂 I’m happy for you!

    Much Love,

  19.  #19Lori on January 3, 2011 at 2:40 pm

    Just want to clarify that these men are initiating the “reciprocation” speech with ME, I’m not trying to have these talks. I’m just CDing and leaning back and seeing who steps up and who doesn’t. When they ask me a question about it, I give them honest open answers about how I feel about dating and what I’m looking for. It does seem, as Nancy said, that some men get angry when we don’t follow THEIR rules. One of the men I mentioned above has even joked about changing my mind about dating and getting me to be more “spontaneous” ie; accepting last minute dates etc, and seems frustrated with me when I stick to my boundaries!

  20.  #20rose on January 3, 2011 at 2:56 pm

    honey..the man italk to ..are only friends and that is all…they mean nothing to me..if you want to get have let me know..i can any time..but it is to you…you are busy and im not…if you dont let me know that to….we will not talk about the past….only if you want to…o.k.

  21.  #21rose on January 3, 2011 at 3:02 pm

    what do you want me to say…i dont know what you arre getting at…should i come up in morning…help me…if not cant you just let me know..

  22.  #22Jilly on January 3, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    Lori…I feel drained just reading about these men giving you a “reciprocation” speech! I too have been given it…in a weird way…um…through texting…needless to say it felt weird and I felt totally turned off…that was my CD#2 and I haven’t heard from him for a few days and I get the feeling he is “waiting” for me to initiate…ICK!

    I feel bad when a man has expectations for me to initiate

    Anywho… a little update…CD#3 has come in contact again 🙂 He asked (read TEXTED) me to go get a drink RIGHT THEN and I said…I’m busy right now but it would feel good to do it another night…he said OK..can I call you tomorrow? I said…”Ya..cause I’m starting to feel bored with all the texting” LOL I was cracking up anyway he said He LOVES how honest I am (giggling over here!!) lol (he’s been Mr. texter for the last few weeks and so I had to tease him)

    Mr. pipeliner (CD#1) is on a plane right now! YUM! A few days of amazing sex is just what I need right now 😉 I feel funny *blush* that I’m even posting that! It feels a lil liberating 🙂 and we had a few “feeling message” conversations this morning and we are back on track…

    I feel happy…I’m going to reiterate what Mercedes commented to Nancy but it’s a little different…

    It is such an amazing feeling!!! I feel sooo much better when I share my feelings (wether “good” or bad”) I might feel nervous while sharing them but so far every outcome has been awesome…and I don’t do it for the outcome…just sayin 🙂

    and….hottie from my gym (the instructor) was back on board with the flirting…my siren spell had worn off and he was no longer a zombie 😉 LOL (that’s a joke from another thread)

  23.  #23Lori on January 3, 2011 at 3:42 pm


    One of my CDers gave me the reciprocation speech via text as well! (and also almost always texts me to ask me out, yet complains how difficult it is to communicate well via text!)

    I can’t help but wonder if I’m attracting feminine energy men due to having a job where I have to exhibit more mascline energy-I met both of them through my work. I have tried to show them over and over again that in dating it feels better for me to switch hats and embrace my VERY feminine side, but it feels almost as if they are trying to push me into a more masculine role so that they can sit back and be receivers instead of givers. Perhaps it is my masculine side they saw at work that attracted them and the feminine side they see on dates confuses them?

    I guess my question is: How long should you keep a CD guy who really is not getting it before cutting him loose? It starts feeling exhausting after a while to have a man push my boundaries over and over again, all the while playing dumb like he doesn’t get it even after you have basically handed him all of the tools he needs over and over again!

    It’s kind of like a man getting a new appliance with an instruction book included and he tries to figure out how to work it without reading the instructions and then complains when he can’t figure out how to use it! And then someone suggesting he read the instruction book, but he just keeps trying to figure it out himself over and over again with the instructions right there under his nose! GRRRR I feel so irritated right now!!!!

  24.  #24Jilly on January 3, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    Rose…I feel curious about your posts..are you riffing?

  25.  #25Daria on January 3, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    Lori – those guys suck ! Lol.

    Well I had two ideas: one, you take the masculine role for an experiment. I believe you will quickly see that they do suck and that you not reciprocating was Not the actual problem.

    Second : it sounds like they’re outgirling u w blame. At that point, I would make sure to express that *I* feel bad. I feel blamed and misunderstood and I don’t like feeling that way. It makes me feel distant from him and turned off… What dies he think?

    It seems you’re missing here sone boundaries and I don’t hear your anger at being blamed.

  26.  #26Kim on January 3, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    Re #15 – lori

    I am feeling the same way. I’m cd’ing and weeding out the guys that may have gotten my interest in the past but should not of-yeah!!!

    Unfortunately, even when I tell guys that I prefer the guy to call and make plans they still try to get me to reciprocate.

    I’m feeling tired of all the cd’ing. I made a suggestion about something that would make me happy with the guy that I liked and really wanted to be with, he took offense and went back to his ex-girlfriend. I had said it would make me happy if he commuicated when I did something he did not lile, everything was fine before that :(.

    I’m feeling tired… I want a man that is mine to wrap his arms around me and feel safe for even a couple of minutes.

  27.  #27Jilly on January 3, 2011 at 3:50 pm


    I feel irritated for you!! LOL

    I would say follow your feelings with this…I’ve found that I “just know” when it’s time to let go…others may have some different advice but I go with my feelings and I like knowing I can trust myself…and i’m trusting myself more and more!! YAY!

    also you can ask yourself what his message could be for you…what do you think it is? 😉

    I’m also in a masculine job…even though I’m pretty girlie..I get what you mean though…they see you in a different way at work..I started practice my feminine girlside talking in feeling messages and it was AWESOME!! lol

  28.  #28Lori on January 3, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    Thanks, Daria!

    I DO feel angry! I feel angry that 2 guys tell me they ASSUMED I was exclusive with them but neither of them even wished me Happy New Year! I feel angry that they would even think that would be OK with me and I would want to be with someone like that! I feel angry that they assumed that I would be accepting of such a poor level of a relationship (a date 2 or 3 times a month, a phone call or text a couple of times a week) enough to be exclusive with either of them. I feel so so icky about both of them right now.

    I feel angry that one of them thinks my boundaries are silly and is trying to make it his mission to break them down!

    You’re right, Daria, they do SUCK!!!!!!

  29.  #29Jilly on January 3, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    and what Daria said too 🙂

  30.  #30Jilly on January 3, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    @25…this feels interesting…”and that you NOT reciprocating was not the actual problem”

    makes me think of cd#2 texting me asking me if I can give too?
    me: what do you mean?
    him: are you afraid?
    what does that even mean???..I felt ICK reading that…I responded..
    me: I feel bad having conversations like this over would feel better talking on the phone or in person…he didn’t call or bring it up again..but he called the next day of coarse 😉

    UGGG..just thinking about it makes me feel bad and turned off…he was seemed so “normal” JK…lol

  31.  #31Nancy on January 3, 2011 at 4:05 pm


    I’m struggling with and trying to figure out this same thing. So many men say this kind of thing! It’s driving me crazy! I like what Daria said. And I would add that you can use these 2 guys to experiment on. Try what feels good and see what happens. I don’t think either of them are your man, so what is there to lose? Tell them exactly how you feel, in feeling messages and just keep expanding them til you’ve had your say. “I would never want exclusivity with a man who doesn’t call me every day and want to spend all his free time with me”. That’s what I’d tell them.
    Also, you might want to read The List. It doesn’t prevent the man from out girling you, but it gives you a great way to gage his true interest.

  32.  #32Jilly on January 3, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    not feeling sure I tied the last post together with what Daria said and what I posted…lol

    what I was trying to say…is that he was asking about my “giving” too but I think he was wanting me to reassure or give him some validation or something…feels a little foggy…but I’ll get there

  33.  #33Lori on January 3, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    Thanks, Jilly,

    I’ve been trying to do that at work too. And lookswise, I’m as girly as they come. But it’s hard to not appear more masculine when I’m telling 26 people what to do in a fast paced environment.

    If I look deep inside myself, I feel like I’ve been keeping these 2 guys around because I don’t have any CD guys to replace them with at the moment.
    I remember when I first started Cding, I had periods of feeling drained and overwhelmed and had to take breaks from dating. Maybe I’m at one of those points again. It makes sense, because I have been getting asked out ALOT lately by alot of different men who seem to be toxic men to me. A man in the middle of a separation, not even divorced yet. Another in a serious depression. Still another with obvious mental problems. Another I suspect has a substance abuse problem. Maybe these 2 guys are the “lesser of evils” compared to what’s in front of me right now, and it does drain my energy when I spend time with men who aren’t offering me anything.

  34.  #34Jilly on January 3, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    Nancy..what’s The List again?

  35.  #35Nancy on January 3, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    SS and Mercedes, thanks for reading and your comments. I feel a lot of support! And right back at you!


  36.  #36Nancy on January 3, 2011 at 4:11 pm


    “The List” is a book I found this past summer. It sounds like “The Rules”, which I never read, but it’s a different book. I think the whole title is “The List: How To Tell If He’ll Marry You In 30 Days Or Less”. Combined with Rori’s stuff, it gave me the resolve I needed, it really pushed me over the edge into seeing that the man I loved was not going to ask me to marry him and that he’d keep stalling and stringing me along. It was a tough read. But it gave me what I needed to feel secure enough to let go. I know my guy is out there somewhere and the book shows you how to really clear the path so he can find you. I combine it with CD and feel that the 2 things together are dynamite.

  37.  #37Daria on January 3, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    Jilly – I’ve had instances with men where I was feeling drained but the reason is because I’m not expressing myself. After lots of practice, including stopping dating, the other week I’ve been able to open to 3 previously draining men.

    I just got brave and said how I felt.

    “u know this feels bad. I feel badgered and not romanced. I feel angry… And I don’t want to feel this way with man… I’m actually turned off to where I feel drained thinking about you. I don’t want to date feeling thus way. I dong want to feel pressured … I want to feel pursued and romanced. What do u think we should do?”

    Him: fine then let’s not date I’m tired of this.

    Me: ohh that feels bad.

    Him: well u r the one saying u don’t want to date this way.

    Me: I feel blamed. This feels bad. I want to feel good and close to u what do u think?


    I’ve found men go into monologues about their beliefs which clarify stuff for them as they evaluate the situation. He may even come to a conclusion that feels good!

  38.  #38Lori on January 3, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    Thanks, Nancy. I’ll definitely read that! It sounds like you’re where I’d like to be, so I appreciate the advice!!

  39.  #39Jilly on January 3, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    I love that!! I love when there are girlie girls in leadership positions 🙂

    I liked what Nancy said in #30

    oh my! you do have quite the group!! 😉

    I feel curious about what you do….only if you feel comfortable sharing

  40.  #40Cheryl on January 3, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    Hi Sirens. I have been reading the postings and many mention POF and OKCupid, so I checked them out and created a profile. Now I have a question– Could someone explain how the “Meet Me” part of the POF website works? I received 3 emails indicating people want to “meet me”, but I have no POF emails from them. When I click on the “Users who want to meet you”, I get a ton of profiles, not just the 3. Are the emails indicating matches or people who actually indicated they want to meet? I tend to only respond to men who actually leave an email on the dating website so this “meet me” thing is confusing. Thanks for your help.

  41.  #41Lori on January 3, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    Oh Daria, that’s a great set of feeling messages! Hits the nail on the head as far as what I’m feeling but having trouble communicating!

  42.  #42Ella on January 3, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    I think the ‘speeches’ thread from a few threads back is GREAT!

    I just wrote out a speech for an issue that is bothering me with my man and followed the guidelines and used the speeches tool….

    And it felt amazing that when I read back what I have written it sounds so much less blaming than it would if I had tried to come straight out with it.

    This practice can help me change my communication. Not just with men but in every part of my life!

    I tried using feeling messages with my mum the other day in a potential arguement situation and it worked bc after a while she followed my lead and we were both able to express ourselves w/o it going to a full blown arguement…

    And I have noticed subtle changes in how friends are behaving towards me as well!

    My speech sounds so much more loving than it would have off the cuff.

    So now I will just have to see how it actually goes in practice.

    But either way I love this tool and the chance to work on my communication to build better relationships.

  43.  #43Lori on January 3, 2011 at 4:20 pm


    I’m a manager for a large upscale restaurant and we have mostly male employees. It’s a fast paced environment when we’re busy and I have to be almost like the quarterback of a football team. While I don’t date people I work with, I meet lots and lots of men at work who are customers and do go out with them or friends they set me up with sometimes. I feel certain if they see me in action at work they see a different person than they see across the dinner table on a date.

  44.  #44Jilly on January 3, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    Thanks Daria

    yet again..awesome with the feeling messages!

    ok so with CD2 I said in feeling messages to him..

    I feel friendship feelings towards you right now and I know you want more than that…

    him: i want to date someone I would consider a friend

    me: ok I feel good about that

    then we went out…and I felt drained but mostly it’s the way he teases me…it doesn’t feel funny to me..I’m like really?

    so I could say…I feel bad when I’m teased like that cause it feel lame to me 😉

    that’s really how I feel…oh…LAME

  45.  #45Lori on January 3, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    How does he tease you Jilly?

  46.  #46Nancy on January 3, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    Wow, Lori! That makes me feel SO good. Thanks!

  47.  #47Jilly on January 3, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    but he’s a nice guy and is just trying to be funny…i guess i shouldn’t be so hard on him…but I am struggling with practicing my feeling messages cause I feel happy using them and find it pretty easy for the most part…i guess that could be my sign that that’s when I really need them…AHHH 🙂

  48.  #48Jilly on January 3, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    Lori…you’re career sounds BUSY and full of MEN 🙂 awesome!

    hmmm..let me think of an example…

  49.  #49Senior Lady Vibe on January 3, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    @1: Simply Shannon says:

    “Claiming top o’ the mountain for SLV and for myself!
    Feel like singing a song from Sound of Music…”

    Thanks SS! Onward and upward for all of us.

    “The hills are ALIVE… with the sound of music…” 😀

    “It’s Never Too Late To Marry!”

    Oh, look… it’s a post for me… Yippee! LOL 😆

    Now I’ll read the post and spring eternal…


  50.  #50Nancy on January 3, 2011 at 4:42 pm


    Love #36.


    “meet me” is just a lame-o feature of POF. I had to figure it out recently. Any time a guy runs through the meet me photos and clicks maybe or yes, it generates those e-mails. It doesn’t signify interest. They’re just saying, yeah, she looks pretty good, I’d meet her if someone handed her to me. For me, only an e-mail personally tailored for me, ie, not a form letter e-mail, indicates interest. Hope this helps.

  51.  #51rose on January 3, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    why are you angry…that is what you sound like…you sound like you depress..what is going on…please tell me what is going on with you…i dont know…does this have to do with me…what are you telling me…is yes or it no..i got to know..o.k.

  52.  #52Jilly on January 3, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    k here it is…

    me: I want to go snowshoeing

    him: no…you don’t want to go snowshoeing
    are you sure you want to go snowshoeing?

    me: ya I’m sure

    him: it’s gonna be cold

    me: it will feel good

    him: no one else is snowshoeing
    are you embarrassed that no one else is snowshoeing?

    …and it goes on…and on….and on…all in a teasing voice

    now I feel LAME but the reenactment on here doesn’t do it justice!! 🙂

  53.  #53Jilly on January 3, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    I felt curious about the meet me too…I thought it was spam

  54.  #54Nancy on January 3, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    Hmmmm, teasing. Sometimes I like it, if he’s really funny and it feels fun. Other times it feels lame and I feel sorry for them. LOL Is it just downright rude to tell any man/anyone that you think they’re lame? I try to find another feeling message. “I like that you’re wanting to be funny, but this doesn’t feel good to me.”
    Christian Carter says men tease each other/give each other a hard time as part of their bonding and that we can heighten attraction by teasing them because we’re speaking their language. I guess I like it, but he has to be good at it.

  55.  #55Simply Shannon on January 3, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    I don’t respond to the “meet me” emails either. If a guy wants to talk to me, he’ll email me. I wonder if there’s a way to turn the emails off.

  56.  #56Nancy on January 3, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    It might as well be spam, Jilly. 🙂

  57.  #57Ella on January 3, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    Lori re 32,

    I feel a lil triggered hearing about your toxic men as hearing your labels of them makes me feel afraid in case my man is toxic…

    I could apply those labels to him…

    When I met him he was still in relationship.

    I think he used to have substance abuse issues maybe, don’t know about now… probably not but I don’t know… still watching.

    Ok, so I cannot say he has mental probs… but maybe some depression in past however who hasn’t had some kind of issues?

    It feels harsh to put these labels on another human being right at the moment.

    I don’t know just makes me feel scared bc if I judge the situation with my thinking head it is all wrong and makes me want to run for the hills screaming ‘toxic’.

    BUT the rest of the time when I am in my feelings I want to keep seeing him.

    And the learning I am having with him is phenominal. Maybe this is just where I am at…

    How do I know if this guy is toxic for me and whether I should keep seeing him. How do I know if I am accepting or setlling?

    Guess I won’t really KNOW… Just gotta follow feelings, trust boundaries…

    Gawd this is so tough sometimes.

    Feel he is a good guy… know he is… and he keeps stepping up…

    I just feel shaky about his boundaries and ability to take care of me.

    If I keep seeing him can I keep myself safe and well?

    These are my fears and questions that get triggered.

  58.  #58Simply Shannon on January 3, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    Jilly, I’d maybe just say “this feels weird/bad” instead “ya I’m sure”. Stop it dead in its tracks, ya know?

    Or smile at him but stay silent. Lean back. Don’t bite the fish hook.

  59.  #59rose on January 3, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    lori.. do you thing that i can have men friends…and also women friends..the male friends i have are from my past ….and we just friends…im sure you have women friends…im not busy .. just a little running around..thats all…hope to see you soon

  60.  #60Jilly on January 3, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    Nancy…yes he has to be good at…even OK..and I definitely tease back and his teasing kinda feels like arguing but not and I expressed that to him too…

    I’m just gonna say this…I’m pretty good at teasing and flirting so if it’s super hard…what does that mean? I feel like it means we are not a match..but then it doesn’t really need to mean anything cause I’m doin my FLIPS….now im rambling 😉

    btw awesome!! for you to give your bf of 2.5 yrs the no gf speech and still feeling strong!! that is an amazing thing to do

  61.  #61Jilly on January 3, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    SS…YES! I’ve been totally biting the fish hook…and great advice…”this feels weird/bad” instead of Ya I’m sure

    (that’s my default when I can’t be bothered and I’m triggered at the same time)….i’m learning a few things here tonight

    this feels good!

  62.  #62Nancy on January 3, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    Jilly, maybe one way to find out what it means is to let him know you feel confused, it feels hard and you don’t know why, what does he think?

    And thanks, it’s had it rough moments of course, but I feel proud of sticking with me. Left to my own devices, I’m a pretty happy person and I like being with myself. It feels much better than being in a relationship that erodes my self esteem. Life is too short to be adding people in who make us feel bad.

  63.  #63Lori on January 3, 2011 at 5:10 pm


    It felt bad to me at first too to label or identify men as toxic. I’m not sure if the label “toxic” has to mean they are bad people in general, but just “bad for ME”. Actually now that I think about it, 3 men that are going through divorces have asked me out recently. They may be fine men, but my gut says they see me as someone to help them heal or get “back in the game”. And that’s fine if I can help them on a friendship basis. But I label them “toxic” to remind me that they don’t have anything to offer ME at the moment. That way I keep my head clear and my eyes open when they approach me. Working through Rori’s programs has helped me identify these men that want something from me without being able to give anything back TO me. It’s taken me 2 years of practice to be able to see it a little better.

    I feel bad that I made you feel bad and triggered… : (

  64.  #64Jilly on January 3, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    ella…have you heard of Dr. Paul?

    he is a dating coach too but he’s come up with a system and he talks about boundaries and how to tell if a man has solid boundaries…take it with a grain of salt…but

    if a man has preferences
    ie..likes beef more than chicken..dogs vs cats etc
    if a man has a life mission
    as far as his career is concerned

    there’s more but that’s all I can think of right now…just some food for thought

  65.  #65Simply Shannon on January 3, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    Ella, how are you doing girl? I feel pretty tense reading your posts lately. My own anxieties are coming to the surface watching you entertain the exclusivity pressure cooker. I feel intrigued. How will Ella/Shannon navigate this minefield? 😉

  66.  #66Lori on January 3, 2011 at 5:12 pm


    I feel confused about what you are asking. Of course you can have both men and women friends. This whole program is about learning how to get what you want out of your relationships…

  67.  #67Jilly on January 3, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    that feels true and that’s what i want to say…I feel confused, this feels hard to me and I don’t know why..what do you think?

    perfect!! thank you!!

  68.  #68Daria on January 3, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    Instead of its lame id say it feels weird to hear and I feel turned off

  69.  #69Lori on January 3, 2011 at 5:16 pm


    I LOVE the “don’t bite the fish hook” statement. I lean back and stay silent when I feel a man is baiting me in some way that doesn’t feel good and it makes some men crazy if they can’t push your buttons! It’s a good test of what their intentions are. I have a girlfriend who’s man is very passive aggressive and he is always baiting her into lose/lose situations. I tell her the same thing-don’t bite, don’t engage. He can’t manipulate you if you don’t take the bait!

  70.  #70Daria on January 3, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    That feels weird to hear… I dont want to be teased

  71.  #71Jilly on January 3, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    also one of my favorite things that Rori says is that we don’t ever have to trust a man again because we trust ourselves and we have our own boundaries!! I love helps me so much

  72.  #72Lori on January 3, 2011 at 5:22 pm


    maybe try to identify why it makes you feel bad. Does it feel like he’s putting you down? When he says “wouldn’t you feel embarassed to be the only one snowshoeing?” do you feel he’s saying he thinks your desire to go snowshoeing is stupid? It does feel a little icky to me too, but I can’t quite put my finger on why…

  73.  #73Ella on January 3, 2011 at 5:25 pm


    Don’t worry, I revel in being triggered as I can always find learning here… I don’t feel really bad, just processing. In fact feel good most of the time.

    I tend to work through my fears and negative stuff on here…

    Jilly – thanks. He def has preferences. Not sure about the life/career mission… although he is talking more about stuff he would like to do.. he used to say he had no real ambition.

    But now I do feel a little like I am trying to get in his head so I am gonna drop that for now and just keep feeling this situtation out.

    SS – Thank you! Your post feels so supportive, like I am not in this alone!
    I am still here… still feeling a lil scared re the whole exclusivity thing… nothing much changed really except it feels harder sometimes to relax and enjoy the moment and hard not to analyse him to see if he is ‘the one’ Arghh!

    No, just need to lean back and chill again.

    I am just trying to be totally honest with myself and on here, and totally honest looks like I do have doubts. I don’t want to pretend and just say it is all rosy.

    I do feel confused.

    Feels a lil like pressure on the relationship instead of just fun and relaxed.

    But on the other hand feels fun and relaxed sometimes too, and definitely honest and loving!

    I guess there is no overnight answer here.

    Just a process.

    Whether he is the one or not is kinda irrelevant and actually I don’t even need to know right now.

    All I need to do is keep practicing, being honest and real and feeling my feelings.

    The rest will take care of itself, whether I end up with him or decide he is not for me, or even something completely different that I could not imagine.

    What is happening now is exactly what needs to be happening for me now.

    Ahhhh. and breath!

    Thanks ladies for helping me work through that!


  74.  #74rose on January 3, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    what kind of boundries do you want…what ever is good for you..then do it …noeone is saying you cant

  75.  #75Ella on January 3, 2011 at 5:32 pm


    I feel confused by your posts.

    I feel unsure about who you are talking to.


  76.  #76Lori on January 3, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    yay Ella-working through it!

    Ok, I feel like my issue with confrontation and breaking up is being tested here. Maybe that is my lesson in meeting all of these “takers” who are just energy vampires to me. I’ve always felt bad about saying no when someone asks me out even if I don’t like them. I also dislike breaking up or explaining to someone why I don’t want to see them anymore. So basically I have been ALLOWING these 2 men to make me feel bad because I don’t know how to tell them I’m tired of their games and don’t feel like spending any more of my time with them. So here’s where I need help. A short, simple feeling message to stop seeing someone or turn someone down for a date.

  77.  #77rose on January 3, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    do you want me spend overnite with you…the only thing about that if you want me to that the will see my car missing..if that is what you asking…i could be wrong..

  78.  #78rose on January 3, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    i think im wrong..which i think i am…just asking..

  79.  #79rose on January 3, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    please dont feel glad that i didnt trigger you off…

  80.  #80Senior Lady Vibe on January 3, 2011 at 5:52 pm

    @16 Lori says

    “He has known me for months and knows how quickly my schedule gets booked up, but continues to ask me out last minute and then blame me for not seeming more interested when I’ve already made plans…
    I feel frustrated like I’m not understanding something or not being understood!..”

    I don’t want to be harsh but…it’s not you, it’s HIM! He’s a LOSER!!! Sorry. Inviting someone at the last minute–same day!–anytime is chancy but during holiday season we are all booked up days and weeks ahead! There may be an empty day but you can’t count on it! That is just plain crazy what he said to you, complaining!…

    ( : shock: walking away mumbling at the man’s audacity…)


  81.  #81Lori on January 3, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    Thanks SLV! I needed to hear that. I just kept feeling confused that he never seemed to hear what I was saying and just kept doing things the way they didn’t work for me and then blamed me for not reciprocating!

  82.  #82Daria on January 3, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    Lori , I think ud benefit from a speech abput how u Feel about the behavior that u dont like…

    More than a dumping speech.

    Buy if u want to dump, ok . I iit seems to me that this will come up agsin w other nmen… So eventually ypull have to practice rejecting the behavior nit the,man.

    To dump id sat… This doesnt feel 100% good… I dont want to date anymore.

    Thrn dont answer any more of his now persistant texts and calls

  83.  #83rose on January 3, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    forget it..i seems you are busy and i dont want to get your way..

  84.  #84Lori on January 3, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    Thanks Daria. I like that. Short and simple. The reasons don’t really matter anyway, just that it doesn’t feel good to me….

  85.  #85Jean on January 3, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    hello lovely ladies and sirens, need your help, rori, please as well! I have both targeting mr right and siren, but no answers to my dilema on either. what do you do when you are cding 3-5 men; and they are all into you and want you to be the “ONE”, but none of them are your soulmate, the one that you want for the rest of your life? I am getting thru the frogs and toads -= per lori, we date all of them unless they are dangerous or we feel something out of place, otherwise, we date any that ask and we practice and use the tools and let them give and enjoy our gifts of being a woman. but now these men are serious about me and I certainly can’t give them the “wife/ring” speech because that is what they want and I do NOT want that with them! HELP!
    what do I do!
    also, do any of you ladies that are CD’ing sometimes feel like – a prostitute?? I mean, seriously here, do you sometimes think, this is how it must be for a prostitute? They don’t take the sex and lovemaking seriously, they know the men just want what they have to offer and they pay for it. So, in a sense, that is what we are all doing. We may not have sex with any of these men, but we are letting them have our gifts..our charm, our laughs, our smiles, our company…and they take us out, buy us dinner, take us to movies, etc.
    Sometimes…just sometimes…I think…”this is how it must be for prostitutes.” this is what they must feel as well.
    What do you think?

  86.  #86Lori on January 3, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    as far as the behavior goes, how about this: “it feels bad to me when people wait until the last minute to try and make plans with me and then get angry with me for not being more available. I’m upfront and honest about my busy schedule, so when people wait until the last minute it makes me feel unheard.”

  87.  #87Lori on January 3, 2011 at 6:10 pm


    I’ve never felt like a prostitute because I generally don’t get physical with the men unless I really want to for myself. I DO often feel like I’m being pulled in different directions or that my energy is being sucked out of me by too many men trying to make demands on me.

    Generally speaking, when you start feeling negative about it, it means it may be time to take a break and date yourself and get your energy back.

  88.  #88rose on January 3, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    what happen to your friends? what changes did they make….

  89.  #89Nancy on January 3, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    I just had a realization (while opening the chardonnay!) Not only do I deserve, want and need to be with a man who doesn’t make me feel bad about myself, I (we all) deserve to be with a man who helps us SHINE, feeling fantastic. Anything else is bunk.

  90.  #90rose on January 3, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    that is what i need..the same thing..

  91.  #91rose on January 3, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    that is what i need..the same thing..

  92.  #92Nancy on January 3, 2011 at 6:32 pm


    Rori’s email of today or yesterday talked about that very thing. It’s not like prostitution. Maybe reading her email will help.

    As for your predicament… wouldn’t we all like to be in that one?! LOL No, I know it feels heavy and like a lot of responsibility sometimes, but if it’s not possible that one of these toads will grow on you, start weeding them out and only keep the one or two who are really working hard. Is one bringing you lovely gifts? Is one a good kisser at least? Keep those and let the others go so you have room for a new man or two. Just my suggestion.

    I’m not adding every man who asks to call me or meet me into my CD’ing. Only men I’m interested in meeting. Not all of those turn out to be interesting. I’m not doing the quantity will lead to quality thing. I return e-mails to men I think I might be interested in and, if they ask for a date or my number very quickly, I go out with them. I only keep them around if they work very hard. I try to follow the list in The List. See earlier post to Jilly if you’re interested.

  93.  #93Nancy on January 3, 2011 at 6:36 pm


    Does one take you to places you like to go? Maybe places where there are other men? I know it sounds harsh and like you’re using them, but until they pop the question, you’re really under no obligation. Get creative and try to alleviate some of the pressure you’re feeling. It might be fun!

  94.  #94Nancy on January 3, 2011 at 6:38 pm


    I like it. My only suggestion is to take them out of it… “when I’m called at the last minute, I feel unheard.” “when I sense resentment” instead of “when people get angry.

  95.  #95rose on January 3, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    i want a relationship to be strong..we dont have to be with each other 24/7…he can do his thing and i can do my question ask….we can get together maybe twice a week..or less ..if who ever is busy….it depends on what is on for that day…ik doint mine telling him what im doing..

  96.  #96Lori on January 3, 2011 at 7:01 pm

    thanks Nancy, that does sound better!

  97.  #97Nancy on January 3, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    Jilly, i just read the snowshoeing thing. That does feel weird, not good. Strange. Confusing… like, what’s the point? It’s not fun, funny, cute, clever or charming. It’s just weird and confusing. I’d say, I like to be playful, but this doesn’t feel playful. It feels weird and I want it to stop. Thank you for listening.

  98.  #98Daria on January 3, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    Jean – yes it may be… For prostitutes… They ate women as well…

    However the difference to me is about opening my heart…

  99.  #99Daria on January 3, 2011 at 7:28 pm

    The snowshoe thing – find myself teasing men this way… Its how me and my dad used to interact… Babysteps

  100.  #100Luzydel on January 3, 2011 at 7:55 pm

    84: Jean says

    […but now these men are serious about me and I certainly can’t give them the “wife/ring” speech because that is what they want and I do NOT want that with them! HELP!]

    Well to me being open to men does not mean i have to lead them on. It means that I give them the same chance to prove to me that they can win my heart. If after a while I do not feel it for them and I am sure they are not the one for me, then I am honest and tell them.

    It may not be an RR rule, but I am a strong believer of dating with integrity and honesty. maybe you feel guilty because some how you are leading these men on when you know they are not what you want?

    It is not prostitution because you are not negotiating with these men. You are not giving sex, attention and or flirting because they pay for dinner etc., but because it makes you feel good and you want to keep your options open, but if you start feeling awkward and guys are giving you the talk, I suggest you be honest with them and let that be another experience, another step, another practice.
    That also will free up space for a new CD who may be the right for you. and you will learn to let go and be open for new and better opportunities for you.

  101.  #101Jilly on January 3, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    hey Sirens 🙂 I’m back..I had to leave for a little while…sexy pipeliner was flying standby and got bumped off til tomorrow…i feel sad and disappointed 🙁 but at least he’ll be here tomorrow

    anywho…thanks for the comments above…ya with CD#2
    I am investigating why it makes me feel bad..I can’t quite put my finger on it though…

    Daria actually made a good point…he has a 13 year old daughter and I’m sure that’s how he teases her…

    I’m just going to be with it for awhile..

  102.  #102Brenda on January 3, 2011 at 8:34 pm


    When a man doesn’t give enough advanced preparation time, here is how Rori says to handle it:

    “Oh, it would feel so good to go out with you! But I’m booked until Tuesday.” (Rori suggested a 2 day advance, but adjust that for what’s good for you).

    If he does it again without planning ahead, say it again, “”Oh, it would feel so good to go out with you! But I’m booked until Tuesday.”

    If he says, “What? Don’t you want to go out with me?”

    Say, “Ooh, that feels weird to hear! I’d LOVE to go out with you! I am just so busy and need more time to plan.”

    If he doesn’t get a clue, he probably isn’t worth dating. I think it’s a pretty clever approach!

    My own issue is I tend to be a crumb-taker, and I tend to jump on it when he calls, without putting him off. I want to learn to up my degree of difficulty and let him pursue me more. Yuck.

  103.  #103Brenda on January 3, 2011 at 9:26 pm

    I have yet to find a good real-life answer to my big question:

    How do I fall out of love?

    I don’t understand how you all move on from a man. I seem to be the only one who can’t just lean back all the way and not contact Ryan. Huh… I just don’t see if I’m sposta be true to my heart and honest with my feelings how I can pretend it doesn’t matter that Ryan rarely contacts me.

    And when he does contact me, I’m supposed to pretend I’m fine and everything in my life is peachy, in order to be an invitation. I do that, but then I have explosions now and then when all the lava of loving and missing him surface. Am I supposed to be honest with my feelings or not? I feel fake saying I’m doing well. I’m not doing well.

    I am in love and I haven’t seen the man I love for a year. How do I say otherwise and truly move on?

  104.  #104Daria on January 3, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    Brenda – I contacted guywhohadababy for years. I didn’t fall out of love. My love for myself grew to where the balance is on me.

    To be warm and open… One doesn’t pretend to be ok. She shares her feelings in a nonblaming way.

    This is a good message for me… I just got contacted by dman

  105.  #105Lori on January 3, 2011 at 9:53 pm


    Thanks for the advice! As for your situation, I still love my ex and probably always will. For the first year I beat myself up for not being able to get over him when it seemed like he was able to get over me just fine. I kept trying, praying, begging, pleading to be able to stop loving him and move on. What I realized is that moving on doesn’t mean I have to stop loving him. It means that I have to accept that he doesn’t want a relationship with me anymore and that means he is not the guy for me no matter how I feel about him. Acceptance is what it takes to move on, not falling out of love…

    I just read the book Eat, Pray, Love and it talks about just that in the book. I definitely recommend reading it! It basically says that whenever you feel love for someone not to fight it but to embrace it and send those loving thoughts their way. Truly wish them love and happiness. The universe will reward you with love coming back to you in return. Maybe not from him, but from someone. Everything you send out comes back to you, so if you send out negative, negative comes back. If you send out positive, positive comes back!

  106.  #106Brenda on January 3, 2011 at 10:00 pm

    Thanks, Daria! I feel happy for you that dman contacted you! I am working on loving myself so I guess I am on the right path. I never fell for a man like I did Ryan. In many ways, he is like my first love. Most of my other relationships were either long distance, totally toxic, or both. And by totally toxic, I mean men on drugs and alcohol, where I really wasn’t in love with them and was never treated well in the first place.

    Well, yesterday I shared my real, real heart of hearts feelings with Ryan in a nonblaming way. I sent him a few texts on top of what I had already told him on the phone. My messages were the opposite of blaming, stuff like, “I am in love with you.” “You are my favorite person in the world.” After I cried really hard for a couple of hours, he called me, asking, “What’s going on?”

    We talked 10 min on top of the 20 min we talked earlier. I just bawled on the phone, saying, “I miss you horribly.”

    Among other things, he said, “I’m just sick of dealing with all this!”

    I asked, “So why did you call me?”

    “I guess I wanted to comfort you.”

    “Thank you, that means a lot. I’m just having a really hard time letting you go.”

    After we got off the phone, I texted him, “I love you with every fiber of my being.”

    He texted, “We can be friends. But I don’t want to meet you in person until I am free of the demons.”

    I feel much better. I gave myself a refresher on the beautiful piece you wrote me in September, which I reposted earlier for another woman, about totally leaning back. I know that’s the only way. I am going to work on becoming strong enough to not contact him. Even now I am so tempted to text him.

  107.  #107Nancy on January 3, 2011 at 10:17 pm

    I have a new motto. To love is good. To love at the expense of my own happiness is not. If loving a man means putting my dreams on hold or shutting out the possibility of having them find me, because I’m not open and available for them, it is not good for me to love him, except from a distance.

  108.  #108Leo on January 3, 2011 at 11:17 pm

    I just thought of a couple things…

    I was trying to remember those times at the beginning of my relationship with my Man when he was pursuing me and I felt sooooo awesome.
    I still feel great but in a different way.
    And I figured out some things I did or didn’t do back then.

    E.g. i NEVER opened the door for myself. I enjoyed him being a gentleman soooo much, so I never did it for myself. Nowadays, I often let him open the door, but I often do it myself to.
    And another thing… back then when I was still living 300km away from him, I didnt know his city very well, so he had to pick me up and stuff. Well now I live in this area and I know the way myself. damn 😀
    Also… i never initiated calls. He always asked if I got time so he could call me (well…he did that a lot more often so i wasnt even tempted to ask). I did it probably for the wrong reason (didnt want to pressure him) but it worked…
    And I took everything a lot easier….
    Now its so serious. And I need to losen it up again… what Rori says… I will be fine without him.

    Back then though… I was busy a lot more. I need to get back to that, too, cause it was fun 😀

    Baby steps… love it!

    But I still have a hard time not sending him an email (initiating) when he is at work… I have been doing this for 2,5 yeares now :D.
    Once he asked why I dont send him good-night-emails anymore (when he works night-shift). I said, truthfully, I was reading and then too tired, just turned the PC off, turned around and fell asleep.

    But it’s also cause I feel …..
    just writing this… I got a idea how to express my feelings better.
    I was always thinking about “it feels bad not getting answers from you after I sent an email”
    which is true, but sounds kinda blaming cause…he still is at work…
    but I could go this way:

    “It feels weird not getting answers from you after I sent you an email. I dont like that feeling. It would feel better if you’d send me an email when you really got time to! ”

    Would that be ok? Or is that too much of “I want you to do this instead…” ???
    I think I feel comfortable with this message…

  109.  #109Brenda on January 3, 2011 at 11:44 pm


    I like your feeling message.

  110.  #110Brenda on January 3, 2011 at 11:52 pm

    Daria and everyone…

    I grapple with this: on the one hand, I want to be genuine from the heart about how I feel (in love with him, missing him). On the other hand, stating that does nothing to increase my degree of difficulty or encourage him to pursue me. So I’m fu(cked either way.

    But I took a shower! I made a pitcher of iced spice mixed with green tea with honey! I cleaned my coffee machine! I shaved! I made my bed with clean sheets! I put lotion all over myself! These are little acts of love to myself, things that I don’t feel like doing when I am in depression, as I am now. It’s hard to take care of myself when all I really feel like doing is curling up in a ball and crying.

    How the fu(ck do I increase my degree of difficulty when I am crying and missing him? I feel like my heart dropped out of my body and left when Ryan did Nov. 2009. How the fu(ck do I live when I don’t have a heart? Excuse me, there’s a big gaping hole in my chest. And I am supposed to not contact him, circular date, increase my degree of difficulty. It feels like running a marathon when I just got out of open heart surgery.

    I stayed up all last night and slept until 7:15 pm. I am NOT at all wanting to harm myself. But I am really struggling with my will to live right now. I am weary of being single. This is too many years to be alone when the thing I value second most in life is to be a wife. The top thing is being the wife of Je*sus.

    My heart, what’s left of it, is mincemeat. Please be gentle with it. I am working all of Rori’s basic tools to the best of my ability, considering I am minus a heart.

  111.  #111Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 12:17 am

    Here’s my song:


    It was way past midnight
    And she still couldn’t fall asleep
    This night the dream was leavin’
    She tried so hard to keep
    And with the new day’s dawning

    She felt it drift away
    Not only for a cruise
    Not only for a day

    Too long ago
    Too long apart
    She couldn’t wait another day for
    The captain of her heart

    As the day came up she made a start

    She stopped waiting another day for
    The captain of her heart

    Too long ago
    Too long apart
    She couldn’t wait another day for
    The captain of her heart

    Too long ago
    Too long apart

    She couldn’t wait another day for
    The captain of her heart

    As the day came up
    She made a stop
    She stopped waiting another day for
    The captain of her heart

    Too long ago
    Too long apart

    She couldn’t wait another day for
    The captain of her heart

  112.  #112Leo on January 4, 2011 at 12:24 am


    If Je*sus is your “top-thing” then…well…live for him!
    I am not religious but I “believe” that whatever one’s motivation is to live and enjoy the live – one should use it!

    I feel sad reading your post. I feel sad that Ryan has so much power over you. It makes me feel mad that he was/is able to destroy your life like that, make you feel miserable.
    I would want to feel better and not let ANYONE overpower me like that. Get your heart back!

    Do you know those little tricks with children… where you take the child and his/her pacifier and let him/her put it into the garbage, like “saying good bye” to it!?

    How about you go out and buy a heart…like a chocolate heart, or a magnet for you fridge or something…

    Just go, get a heart! 😀

    I would feel mad at Ryan for making me feel like shit…I mean – that aint love!!!!!!!!

  113.  #113Katnina on January 4, 2011 at 2:01 am

    Aaaaggghh I feel frustrated with myself about
    Lawyer guy from match who I was supposed to meet for coffee on Dec 22 (1st meeting, we’d emailed back and forth for about 2weeks). I cancelled the day before bc I was sick w a really bad cold, told him i felt bad cxling but asked if we could raincheck to this week, he said absolutely, feel better! I left for la on the 24th. Then I was logging into match from la and he was too so I sent him a message on dec 28 saying hope you & your dog got to play in the snow, I think being in California has speeded my healing process, I get back to NYC on Jan 1, are you free to meet up sometime next week?
    And haven’t heard back. But I can see that he has logged in since then. Uggghhh why did I lean forward?!
    Oh well. I have a 2nd date this Friday night w another guy I had to cxl on when I was sick. And another guy I’m emailing on match asked if I am free to get coffee or a drink this weekend. And another guy who is cute sent me and email on match.
    And phishman finally wrote me back last week and I wrote him back tonight.
    And yet, all I can think about is lawyer guy and wondering if he will write me back!
    I havent even met him!
    What is my problem?
    No wonder men can’t stop thinking about women with high degrees of difficulty!
    I’m not going to contact him again, but I’m annoyed at myself.
    For leaning forward by contacting him last week, and for caring so much that I haven’t heard back, when there are other guys who want to see me!

  114.  #114Lorelei on January 4, 2011 at 2:26 am

    Brenda @ 110

    Dear Brenda, hang in there.

    This is so hard. But feel it all, name your feelings, love all your feelings, and tell them you love them out loud.

    Touch the skin that is over your heart and tell your heart that is in so much pain: that you love it, thank it for bearing the pain, that you are sorry it is in so much pain, that it’s OK, that it will be OK, that you love it however much pain it feels (riffing with Rori’s body compassion dialogues here – Heart Connection Toolkit). When I do this, I feel that I am comforting and holding and soothing the part of me that is a small, very distressed child . . .

    I love Leo’s (112) idea of buying – or just making, at home? – a heart-shaped thing. In fact I would like to do that for myself as well. I could then see myself holding ‘my heart,’ soothing it.

    Hang in there, dear.

  115.  #115Leo on January 4, 2011 at 2:48 am

    I like the “making it” even better. Cause then… you can care for your heart, yourself. You can hold it, stroke it, hug it, love it – love yourself!

  116.  #116Lorelei on January 4, 2011 at 3:08 am

    One of my online CD’s, WaveMan, lives 500 miles away. We met in December in my home town, got on well – chatted easily for 5 hours – and since then have been in contact every day. He contacts me and I respond. This is by text, and sometimes by phone. I’m enjoying the connection. I practice my feeling messages, I enjoy the mutual wit and word-play, and he deals quite well with the feeling messages (says I have a turn of phrase that is very endearing.)

    So far, so good. I don’t call this a relationship, but it’s certainly a connection (and I have other CD’s). The distance is very great, and occasionally, if I think about it at all, I can’t see how we could ever be together in the same place. But I’m kind of not bothered – just experimenting at the moment. Texting is good – but feels limited in some ways. But I enjoy hearing from him, and enjoy responding.

    He’s talking about a second meeting, and kind of assumed that it would be my turn to visit him. This seemed only fair to me and I kind of assumed I might go there for a second date. He even sent a Christmas card with a little hand-drawn map of the places he would like to take me when I visited.

    But – I don’t feel comfortable with the possibility that I could visit someone long-distance, and feel trapped and unable to get home easily, if things did not go well on a second date. Or any date. To travel LD to meet someone I’ve only met once, feels risky.

    It’s not this particular man, as far as I can tell, who is spooking me. It’s because my Ex was particularly controlling and critical when we were away on vacation or for a weekend somewhere. So many times I found myself far from home, with Ex, having a miserable time and just wanting to go home. But I couldn’t because my Ex was in charge of the travel arrangements, or the tickets had fixed dates, or because my Ex was the one who was driving. Etc. I was trapped in a situation where I was leaning back!

    Today WaveMan texted that he’d enjoyed talking on phone last night, was looking forward to the next time, but felt strangely apprehensive about raising the subject of our next meeting.

    I texted to reply: “I felt relaxed talking to you but also felt apprehension in the air. I’m an old fashioned girl in matters like this. I feel bad initiating things, making plans or pushing things along. I would like to meet you again. My truth is that I feel apprehensive about the possibility of being far from home with someone I don’t know well yet, and when I can’t just leave easily if I need to.”

    I felt really good about this message, and unattached to the outcome. I felt I’d be OK, even if I never heard from him again. It was my truth, and it needed saying.

    Then he texted back: “Sounds like another trip to [your home town] is called for then!”

    And now I feel dreadful. I feel guilty, I feel pushy and demanding, I feel too embarrassed to text back, now that I have sort of got what I want. I feel I have been manipulative, even though it was true. And these are not feeling messages that I want to say to him!! I feel I should say I’m sorry that he has to come to be – and be grovelling and apologetic. What is the matter with me? But the guilt has got me by the throat. Nasty voices?

    I don’t know what to text back. I really don’t.

    Thank you. I feel honoured that you would come here a second time (?)

    Wow – I’m very flattered – that makes me feel very safe and cared for (?)

    Wow – thank you for offering that. It would be great to see you again here. (?)

    Thank you! It would be great to see you again. I would feel safe and cared for if it was here rather than there (?)


    Thank you! It would be great to see you again. I would feel safe and cared for if it was here rather than there, at least until we know each other better (?)

  117.  #117Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 3:14 am


    RE: #112 – Thank you for all you said. Very sweet and comforting. I will get myself a heart. Not chocolate tho, cuz I’m an overeater. It would symbolize food as love, and that’s another thing from which I’m trying to heal.

  118.  #118Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 3:17 am


    RE: #114 – Thank you, I just did that and immediately started crying. Shows how powerful it is to symbolically love our inner self like that. Going back to bed. It feels comforting and warm in bed, like being wrapped in a hug.

  119.  #119Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 3:21 am


    RE: #116 – I like this one best:

    Thank you! It would be great to see you again. I would feel safe and cared for if it was here rather than there.

    Go Siren! You just raised your degree of difficulty!

  120.  #120Leo on January 4, 2011 at 3:44 am

    leaning back feels awesome right now… 😀

    My man just called cause he is done working and on his way home.
    He just told me that and asked what I was doing. I answered. Yeah… that was it 😀
    Then he said: Call you when I am home!

    Feels awesome!!!!

    And: I turn my icq off when I am studying now. Makes me not be available all the time, and: he has to call me 😀

  121.  #121Senior Lady Vibe on January 4, 2011 at 3:46 am

    @116: Lorelei

    IMHO, I’d just say:

    “It would be great to see you again!”

    And I wouldn’t feel bad at all; I’d feel good! He’s a grown up guy, I strongly suspect he can well afford it and loves making these plans, probably only mentioned you coming so as to be “fair”…OK, I’m guessing but I see it this way.

    I think he’s getting a big kick out of making these plans and trips.

    Gee, wish I had someone doing this for me. I used to have a guy hop on plane to see me all the time. 😆 Ah, the olden days… 😀


  122.  #122rose on January 4, 2011 at 4:19 am

    i dodnt have an e-mail for i cant e-mail you…all i want you be happy…if you want to meet i will love to…i dont know what you want…if i think of what you want to happen …i will say yes…i wont say o.k. i will say i love that better…

  123.  #123Rosalie on January 4, 2011 at 4:57 am


    I agree with Ella and Daria here, regarding the 2 men. They are toxic bec they DON’T CHANGE. They don’t want to change/ can’t change.
    They still require energy from YOU to validate their sh*t to THEMSELVES. Yes it should make you angry…

    Plus there is a MAJOR red flag:

    -Skipping an important holiday. You should spend NYE TOGETHER, not only they should send text you to wish a Happy New Year! BUT:
    If a man doesn’t plan/ organize a special programme for you (it can be anything) he doesn’t want to spend time with you!

    Is it the case here? How do you feel about them now?

    I read somewhere from Rori a feeling msg like: “It feels bad… I don’t want to explain myself…”

  124.  #124Lori on January 4, 2011 at 5:29 am


    I wasn’t expecting plans with either of them NYE because I had to work that night, and both knew that. But I was kind of expecting a phone call or text from both at midnight, but the only man I got a call or text from at midnight was my ex bf and we have been broken up for 2years!!!

    When I didn’t hear from either, I figured it was because it was so casual with both of them and it really didn’t bother me that badly. What did bother me was when one of them called 2 days later and confronted ME with my lack of interest and reciprocation and also expressed shock to learn I considered him casual and wasn’t exclusive with him! I felt like screaming at him, and I’m a pretty laid back person. Then I felt angry with him because I felt like if he really thought we were more serious and exclusive and STILL didn’t call or even text me on NYE, then he doesn’t have a clue about what it would take to be in a relationship with me…

  125.  #125Lorelei on January 4, 2011 at 5:58 am

    Brenda @ 118

    Glad it helps. It’s an awesome tool.

    I was imagining it to be like an emergency prescription!

  126.  #126Lorelei on January 4, 2011 at 6:36 am

    SLV @ 121

    Hi – well I sent off a little message saying something like “Thanks for hearing me – it would be/feel great to see you again!” And now he’s texted to say he’ll be in the area next week!

    He’s not as well off as you seem to think . . . but he does seem to want to see me! I wish you had someone like this too – though who knows how long he will like travelling a huge distance to see me?

  127.  #127Senior Lady Vibe on January 4, 2011 at 6:53 am

    @126: Lorelei says:
    SLV @ 121

    Hi – well I sent off a little message saying something like “Thanks for hearing me – it would be/feel great to see you again!” And now he’s texted to say he’ll be in the area next week!

    “…He’s not as well off as you seem to think . . . “

    I don’t know the travel costs but my thinking was it might not cost much more for a trip every five weeks or so compared to paying for dates once or twice a week.

    My traveling guy wasn’t rich, got all the discount fares and… heehee… stayed with me… 😀 and we’d have a whole fun weekend.

    “… I wish you had someone like this too – “

    Thanks for thinking of me. I’ll dream a little bit… 😀

    “…but he does seem to want to see me!…though who knows how long he will like travelling a huge distance to see me?…”

    Sure he does! Or he wouldn’t want to return. I bet he’s bragging to all his friends!


  128.  #128rose on January 4, 2011 at 7:11 am

    you seem so mad at me…what is that all about..did i hurt you in any way…you see when mad one day..the next day im over it..but whatever you are mad about please let me know…you seem in bad way…thanks xoxoxoxoxo

  129.  #129Jennifer on January 4, 2011 at 7:36 am

    I feel confused by your posts….are you riffing?
    As in just writing down what you feel to let it out?
    Cause I feel worried that you might be asking questions that no one will answer cause we don’t recognize you’re asking them.
    What do you think?

  130.  #130Femininewoman on January 4, 2011 at 7:37 am

    Re NYE I wonder if it is a pattern in the person’s life? I also wonder if it is one of those masculine quirks where guys don’t do it? I wonder why it is such a big thing to us girls when guys do not say HNY to us? I wonder why it is such a big thing to us to spend New Year’s eve together with him? I wonder if this is our expectation that might be pressuring the guys? I wonder what they would say if asked? I wonder if it is our attachment to the outcome that we need to spend the first couple of hours with our Mr. >>>>>>? I wonder.

  131.  #131Simply Shannon on January 4, 2011 at 7:38 am

    Brenda, when are you going to get mad at Ryan? Cuz I tell you what… I feel mad as hell at Ryan. I don’t give a crap if he has demons or whatever. They are a part of him that HE is allowing to control his actions. He isn’t willing to give them up in order to be a better man. I call BULLSHIT to the total package of Ryan (including the demons).

    I would love it ever so much if you would find your rage. Something to balance out all the love you feel.

  132.  #132Lori on January 4, 2011 at 7:42 am

    I feel like the NYE thing is just showing you care and think about that person. I got texts or calls from my family and friends, but only my ex bf and none of the men I’m currently spending time with. I feel it’s more of a courtesy thing, at least on my part as I had to work and had no expectations of spending that time with anyone. But I do know both of my CD guys were up and out and probably got/sent texts to family members etc. The fact that they did not send me one was not such a big deal in itself from a casual dating standpoint, but when I found out later they both assumed exclusivity with me, it did make me feel bad that they felt exclusive with me yet did not feel it was important enough to take ten seconds to send me a text…

  133.  #133Lori on January 4, 2011 at 7:44 am

    SS- I agree. I feel mad when I read about Ryan’s “demons” and feel he uses them as an excuse. I hope Brenda will get mad at him too….

  134.  #134Jennifer on January 4, 2011 at 7:53 am


    What the hell. Fml
    I don’t wanna wake up at 0115 in pain. This sucks ass.
    I don’t wanna have to take narcs and then not be able to work…HELLO! Less pay.
    I feel angry at my uterus and ovaries. Like “Hey! you guys! WTF? Get it right down there! STOP malfunctioning….you only have like 2 JOBS ALL MONTH. All ya gots ta do right now is maintain my hormone balance and ovulate/menstruate. We ain’t preggers…there’s no hard work her! GET IT TOGETHER! Jerks!”
    And clearly…..being in pain makes me bitchy.
    Frig a loo
    E weird ed me out.
    Men weird me out.
    He says he finds me fascinating.
    I told him I felt weird hearing that. Like I was a bug under glass.
    He says he likes me. Alot.
    I said Thank you …that feels nice to hear.
    I kept catching him staring at me.
    I apologized for canceling our date on sunday…I explained I have some stuff going on family wise and he wanted me to explain.
    I usually wouldn’t chat about my very ill aunt on a third date but he sorta insisted.
    So I felt like “you wanna know? Well here ya go pal.”
    I let it alllll out.
    Like I’m mad at my aunt for not taking better care of herself.
    I am on edge with waiting for my other relatives to start the “telephone game”.
    I have one aunt (well I have several my mother is the youngest of 11) who likes to get on the phone to all and sundry and gossip her freakin face off. Totally inaccurate sh1t.
    She upsets my aunt in NH….and my uncles on the West coast.
    Historically my mother has asked me NOT to go speak to her about her behavior.
    I feel like if she starts this up over this issue (nothing seems sacred to this woman) I’m just not gonna tell mom I’m going.
    I’m just gonna jump in the car and go over and sort this shit directly.
    Cause apparently nobody has ever called her on this behaviour.
    Like nobody.
    welcome to Jen world…Btch. keep yer hands and arms inside trolly. She’s gonna be a rough one.

    So E wants me to call him if I wanna vent.
    He like practically INSISTED on it.
    Too Fast.
    Slow the bus.

    then we talked about our belief systems. We seem to synch in that regard.
    But he just got sooooooooo intense!
    Like wow.
    back up.
    then when he dropped me off he stood in front of me and held out his hands.
    I was like….what?
    he took my hand in his.
    No touchy touchy guy.
    Me no likey.

    Riff over.
    and we’re breathing.

  135.  #135rose on January 4, 2011 at 7:59 am

    am i one of your demons..can you ever forgive me for what i said…i di not mean it…what demons do you have…why are they conrolling you…stop looking down…and start looking ahead…i just going to be fine…dont let the them get you…i though you were into jesus…i looks you no faith..somewhere you lost it..if i said i didnt mean was because i was mad.not about something at the hospital.+.

  136.  #136Jennifer on January 4, 2011 at 8:03 am

    and to balance

    Debt free here I come.
    Last payment………MARCH
    Next month with three pays……..APRIL!
    I is gonna buy some stuff!
    teeth whitening… I come.
    Leather couch……here I come
    Crazy vacation to greece,…………here I come!
    possibly…….Laser skin resurfacing for face…….here I come!
    Me likey debt free!!!!

    I think I wanna re write my POF profile.
    Who has done that recently?
    What format did y’all use?

  137.  #137life_is_too_short_to... on January 4, 2011 at 8:07 am

    I feel very sad right now

    and that feels like Brenda is not much open to receive

    she is constantly giving, giving, giving, waiting, waiting, waiting

    everything revolves around Ryan and it is suffocating him

    It’s as if she is being run by the belief that giving is better than receiving, as we are taught

    not for the Goddess, it is not better, no it is not

    All those men she waited for throughout the years…

    She is _still_ waiting.

    Waiting for what ?

    A man need to *work* for you in order to *value* you.

    Where do I need to receive more today?

    In-breath: Take a big deep breath to remind that I am here to receive…be ready in your body

    The bigger the in-breath, the bigger the outbreath… the more you can receive, the more you can give, or create

  138.  #138Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 8:10 am


    RE: #131 – Thanks for your feedback! Part of me feels angry, but my concern is that in the past, when I was over-functioning by texting way, way too much, a lot of my words came across as accusatory and blaming. I am working hard on not being like that.

    I expressed mild anger a couple days afer New Year’s Eve when he had called me and then never called back. I was on pins and needles waiting for his return call, being that it was right at a holiday and meant a lot to me.

    Then I sent him a feeling message expressing my disappointment. The main feedback I got from the Sirens was that it was whining, blaming, that type of vibe.

    So I feel confused. Anger at him would turn him off, right? I would like to invite him closer, and so my understanding is that I’m supposed to totally lean back by not initiation anything, and allow him to come in my direction when and if he wants to. When he does, I’m supposed to be an invitation.

    So what and when would be a proper expression of anger, other than saying, “Fu(ck it! I’m done!”

  139.  #139Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 8:11 am


    P.S. All I know is I was in extreme pain from missing him over the holidays and for the past year the other day, and what came out of my heart of hearts was extreme love.

  140.  #140life_is_too_short_to... on January 4, 2011 at 8:16 am

    Brenda, did you read the articles about loneliness by Tigress Luv that Plum posted?

    They are very good, in my opinion, I hope you will read them. I think they are in the previous thread.


  141.  #141Femininewoman on January 4, 2011 at 8:17 am

    Sometimes I get a bit confused regarding feeling messages. Isn’t it supposed to be done face to face to be effective? Though I have to admit I have done it over the phone and got big results.

  142.  #142Jennifer on January 4, 2011 at 8:21 am

    Hey Brenda…
    I am jumpin on board with SS. And goin all Nurse Jen about it.

    I feel like it’s cool to have sympathy for a brother with a chemical imbalance in his brain. For real.
    When are we having sympathy for Brenda?
    It is ok to be mad at Ryan for being a cold bastard. And I think he is.
    SOMETIMES…what I find while working with the mental health population is that there are behaviors apart from the diagnosis.
    Cause sometimes people who have a diagnosis find that most of their behaviors are excused. So like….they get a “get out of jail free pass” to be jerks. Which, being human, they use.
    Hey….if I got away with everything I did….I’d do it too.
    while Ryan IN THE PAST was the most romantic, fantastic, sensitive dude you ever met……… seems to me that lately he has learned that he can get away with all sorts of self serving, cold, arrogant behavior.
    This is NOT cool.
    I call bullshit too.
    What do you think?

    Ya know what? What about buying yourself a very nice heart shaped locket?
    With rubies and diamonds on it.
    Or whatever you like.
    cause then……YOU have yer heart with you.
    And you can reach up and touch it if you need to focus…..what’s that tool called?
    You know the one I mean.
    And it’s precious.
    AND people can see it how precious it is.
    Very symbolic.
    What do you think?

  143.  #143Lori on January 4, 2011 at 8:21 am


    I think the idea here is not to worry about what would turn HIM off or on. The idea is that until he steps up and claims you forever, you are not his and he is not yours and you live your life making yourself happy, not waiting for him or trying to figure out how to get him back. If he does text you and you feel happy to hear from him, of course you should express that. But you shouldn’t be initiating with him and if you feel unhappy to hear from him, you can choose to either not respond or to express your unhappiness-whatever YOU want to do. In the meantime, date other men and date yourself!

  144.  #144Lori on January 4, 2011 at 8:25 am

    I just had a thought: Ryan is expecting you to give and be understanding because HE has demons or issues right now. But so do you! You said you feel depressed and that is serious and a demon of its own. Where is his empathy for YOU? Why is his “demon” more important than yours????

    I feel angry at Ryan for being self centered!!!! Brenda deserves BETTER!!!

  145.  #145Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 8:26 am


    RE: #133 – Thanks. I wonder sometimes if I’ve presented the full picture on the blog sufficiently. I wonder if I posted the pages and pages worth of texts that I sent him and saved, if you would feel angry at Ryan for my sake. Or if you would say, “Ewww! Brenda, if you treated me like you did him, I wouldn’t want anything to do with you! It’s a miracle he even talks to you!”

    I feel embarrassed to say that, but I really messed up bad. There’s a poem that says, “If a child lives with criticism, he learns to condemn.” I lived with a whole lot of criticism, and blaming and accusing was just a normal way of life for my family. I am not blaming them, and I am responsible for my words and actions. But when that is mostly all you are ever role modeled, it becomes second nature to dish that out.

    I made every mistake Rori ever talked about and then another huge pile of mistakes that Rori never even dreamed of! Yes, Ryan has made mistakes, too. But I’m the only one I can change, and I am working double time to change myself.

    To balance that out, I will add that Kenny, who has known me for 11 years, tells me that there’s nothing wrong with me and Ryan is a sadistic jacka$$ who I should stay totally away from.

    I feel somewhat confused, because I really like Ryan’s good side and really hate his bad side. But overall what I see is that through endlessly testing me, he was focusing on my negative qualities rather than positive. He set me up for being hurt OVER AND OVER. Then came down on me because I lashed out in anger.

    On the other hand, Kenny and I have had VICIOUS verbal arguments, repeatedly, over the years. And we worked through it. And we rarely argue now. And he is one of my best friends, even tho we are divorced. I’m Kenny’s favorite person, and he would marry me again in a heartbeat. He said there is no other woman for him. If I end up marrying someone else, he is going to stay single the rest of his life.

    In short, what I see is that in the early stages of my relationship with Ryan, he was focusing on my positive qualities, and our dynamic was beautiful and intimate, from the inside out. More and more, he focused on ferreting out my negative qualities, and he found them, because I’m inherently flawed, like every one else.

    I wonder where that leaves me. I guess all I can do is work on loving myself and improving myself, and I am already well on that path. I miss the loving, sweet Ryan. The best moments of my life were with him.

  146.  #146rose on January 4, 2011 at 8:28 am

    what does that mean? that you are not mad at me any more…brenda do you want me to come and see you..what about tonite…im sorry i made you mad…i should’nt pick it out on you..i had a bad day at the hospital…xoxxoxoxox

  147.  #147Lori on January 4, 2011 at 8:31 am


    Trust me, I know how you feel and where you are. I miss my sweet loving ex with whom I also had the best moments and happiest years of my life. BUT, and it really doesn’t matter if I messed up bad or not, for whatever reason, HE no longer wants to be in a relationship with ME. I chose to try to change that and wait and be unhappy for quite awhile-I was in total denial that it could possibly really be over. After all, if they were the best moments of MY life, they had to be the best moments of HIS life too, right???

    It doesn’t always work that way. Maybe he is a sadistic a$$ and you are cruel and condemming. or maybe he is a great guy and you are a great girl, but he is just not YOUR great guy and you are just not HIS great girl….

  148.  #148Lori on January 4, 2011 at 8:36 am


    Maybe you don’t miss Ryan for the man he truly is, but for the way he made you feel during that time?

  149.  #149Jennifer on January 4, 2011 at 8:39 am

    Hey Brenda
    I wonder if a Gaba supplement would help chill you out a bit around this issue

    Gaba can be purchased at most health food stores.

  150.  #150Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 8:43 am


    RE: #143 – You are completely correct. His self-centeredness became increasingly evident as time went on. One night, when we were still seeing each other, I felt totally neglected and called him on it, saying something like, “What about MY feelings??” He said, “I’m sick, and my feelings matter more.” I told him at the time that that wasn’t right.

    One thing I noticed is that when the real Ryan is in operation, he is very thoughtful and other-centered. I’ve even seen him pick up random trash in a parking lot as he passed it, just to give you an idea. And he is the best listener I’ve ever encountered, which takes very other-centered focus. Just my thoughts upon reading that.

  151.  #151rose on January 4, 2011 at 8:48 am

    im sorry you feel that way…brenda…if you dont want to be good friends anymore just let me know…brenda you got to tell me what you feel…

  152.  #152Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 8:48 am


    RE: #136 – Thank you for that. I needed to hear that. Receive. Not easy for me to do. Not used to receiving.

  153.  #153Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 8:50 am


    RE: #139 – Thank you, I’ll check them out!

  154.  #154Lori on January 4, 2011 at 8:51 am

    Maybe Kenny could help you practice receiving Brenda?

  155.  #155Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 8:56 am


    RE: #141 – Good point about being able to get away with bad behavior. I really appreciate all you said. I think his parents really catered to that bad behavior, too. He was living with them when we were together, and it looks like he had next to no responsibility. They treated him like a 16 year old even tho he was 29-30 at the time. I even discussed it with his Mom, and she seemed kind of blind to it. She was in the medical field, too, and she just treated him like a sick little boy. I could see him manipulating circles around his parents, and he told me straight out he lied to them. He tried manipulating me, too, but I called him on it left and right.

    This helps me get out of the golden bubble I’ve formed around him. The good times were really good, but the bad times were really bad.

  156.  #156Leo on January 4, 2011 at 8:56 am

    As I wrote earlier…my Man called me for like no reason on his way home from work, telling me he is gonna call me in 30 to 45 minutes when he is at home.
    He didnt do so… Which made me feel sad.

    So now I was online on ICQ and he asked “Let us talk on the phone later, okay?”
    So I said: “Yes, would feel great.”

    But i do feel sad that he didnt call earlier, or sent a text or something.
    How do I express that without blaming him?
    Back in the days I would just have asked like:” why didnt you call earlier? ”
    And he would prolly move further away from me.

    What can I say…
    I feel afraid of even bringing that up again…

  157.  #157Daria on January 4, 2011 at 8:57 am

    Brenda – anger can be expressed with ” I feel angry ”

    Fuchk it I’m done is only appropriate if you’re telling the truth.

  158.  #158Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 8:57 am


    RE: #145 – Huh?

  159.  #159Jennifer on January 4, 2011 at 8:58 am

    you confuse me

    more unasked for advise…comin’ yer way!
    So….if we work under the idea that some of Ryan’s more ……unacceptable behaviors are possibly NOT diagnosis related…and are in fact learned, we can assume they can be unlearned. Didn’t we have a behavioral therapist on here? Stop me if i’m off base. somebody.
    Ok….learned behavior can be unlearned. As an adult Ryan can unlearn to be a jerk.
    but WILL he?
    There in lies the rub, my sista….
    In order for people to change their ways….there must be sufficient motivations.
    What is Ryan’s motivation to NOT be a jerk?

    Don’t look like he has much of one.
    Seems to be goin pretty smooth for Ryan. He knows damned good and well you’ll take any crumbs he has. And give back to him on an emotional level about 1000 X more than you got.
    Cause you love him…and you are a good person.

    His ROI….huge.
    Your emotional gas tanks……..empty.

    I feel so sad that your life has been such a famine that you feel like crumbs are banquets.
    I do.
    I feel grief.

  160.  #160rose on January 4, 2011 at 8:59 am

    are you by chance you talkabout mike…i new mike all my growing up…he lives in florida…we e-mail all the time but it isnt what you think..we are friends from the past. look brenda if you dont want to friends any more ..just let know..

  161.  #161Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 8:59 am


    RE: #148 – I’ll check out gaba! TY!

  162.  #162Daria on January 4, 2011 at 9:00 am

    Leo – I feel scared to say this… And the truth is… I felt bad not getting a call from u when I was expecting one earlier… What do u think?

  163.  #163Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 9:02 am


    RE: #153 – I will try to work on practicing receiving from Kenny. It’s hard because it’s a long distance relationship (he is in prison and has been since I’ve known him). It’s also hard cuz I feel resistant to his love. I love him dearly, but I’m not in love with him, and I don’t want a future with him. He writes me love letters that are far more beautiful than those in romance novels. But maybe even so I could reread those letters out loud and practice receiving the love. Huh, good idea.

  164.  #164Leo on January 4, 2011 at 9:03 am

    Yep….thats pretty much what I feel like….

    Still feel a little scared saying this.
    Stupid NV.
    Dont want to make a big deal out of it…
    But I felt kinda sad.
    I mean HE called out of the blue to tell me he will call again a bit later. He didnt…which was 6 hours ago. And he waited till I was online on ICQ to contact me…
    I feel stupid.

    We’ll call later …so we’ll…

  165.  #165Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 9:09 am


    RE: #158 – The advice is asked for, and I really appreciate your and everyone’s feedback.

    Yeah, my life has been an emotional famine. In the mid-90’s, I was laying my history out to a psychologist, and he sounded almost shocked, saying, “Everyone needs to be touched.”

    I regret spending so many years in long distance relationships. When I started dating Ryan, I thot I was finally choosing an emotionally available, local man, and he lived only 3 miles from me! But it turns out he’s in a tighter prison than all the men I ever “dated”.

    This is embarrassing, but sometimes I feel a thrill just walking side by side with a man. It’s been very rare that I’ve done that with a man to whom I’m attracted.

    I started waking up emotionally and socially when I was 25. I’ve been on a growth journey ever since.

  166.  #166Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 9:09 am

    Jennifer, what’s ROI?

  167.  #167Jennifer on January 4, 2011 at 9:11 am

    Brenda ROI = Return On Investment.

  168.  #168Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 9:12 am


    RE: #156 – I have been known to say, “I feel angry” to Ryan and to other people. And I know Rori condones it. Outside of this blog, I have NEVER had it well-received. Not sure what to do about that. But I am committed to be being real with my feelings. I really like this level of transparency. It feels freeing and empowering.

    My thing with Ryan, at present, is I feel like I am to walk on eggshells. Don’t contact…don’t do anything to piss him off. Is that off-base?

  169.  #169Simply Shannon on January 4, 2011 at 9:12 am

    Writing as Brenda…

    I feel MAD as HELL at Ryan. I feel LONELY.

    Why doesn’t he call me?

    Why doesn’t he love me?

    Why doesn’t he think I’m enough?

    Why don’t I think I’m enough?

    Why can’t he get rid of his demons?

    Why can’t he be normal?


    I’m so tired of being alone. I want SOMEONE to call me on Christmas and New Year’s.

    I want someone to hold me, love me, make love to me.

    I feel ANGRY. When the fu(ck is it gonna be MY turn?




  170.  #170Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 9:15 am


    RE: #161 – Perfect feeling message! I wish that’s what I had said to Ryan the other day when he didn’t contact me again after calling me.

  171.  #171Jennifer on January 4, 2011 at 9:17 am

    What to do about being angry not being well recieved?
    Get ok with the idea.
    Nobody’s gonna be ok with you being angry.
    Just say “im angry”
    assume they’re not gonna like it
    keep walkin.
    fck Em.

  172.  #172Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 9:31 am


    RE: #168 – LOL! Thank you for that! There are moments when I feel that. This reminds me of the movie, “Me, Myself, and Irene”. Jim Carrey plays this cop that gets abused and taken advantage of at every turn. He is Mr. Nice Guy, saying, “Oh, that’s all right” at every turn. Then finally it gets the better of him, and he becomes schizophrenic, letting his internalized rage come out at strangers, etc. It’s a funny movie, but it really makes the point about letting your feelings out.

    Let me tweak what you said and use it to express how I feel in this moment:

    I feel sad about feeling neglected by Ryan, and sometimes when he doesn’t follow through on a phone call, or sets me up to feel pain just to emote my true feelings, I feel MAD as HELL at Ryan. I feel LONELY.

    Why doesn’t he call me?

    Why doesn’t he love me?

    Why doesn’t he think I’m enough? I fu(cked up really bad with him in the past, but just three weeks ago, we had a really healthy conversation for a half hour, and we both totally cleared the air, or so I thought. I felt really good about everything after that call.

    Why don’t I think I’m enough? I feel rejected by Ryan, and his fake proposal, when I was at the peak of being in love with him, decimated my self-esteem. I had felt left behind so many years while all my friends married, then had children, and now even have grandchildren.

    I thought it was finally my turn, and I felt so proud, healthy pride, that Ryan was leaving liberal hints that he was on the verge of proposing to me.

    Why can’t he get rid of his demons? He’s had support from every angle, and even a man in England who was freed from schizophrenia after 25 years. All it would take would be a simple phone call, which the man has welcomed him to do, or emails, which the man promptly wrote Ryan back when he started to email.

    But the man told me Ryan wasn’t ready, that he couldn’t be free until he was desperate. Why isn’t he desperate?? Isn’t it enough to have most of your life destroyed? He can’t work; he can’t have a relationship and kids; he doesn’t have money; he doesn’t have friends. What more does he have to lose before he becomes desperate??

    Why can’t he be normal?


    I’m so tired of being alone. I want SOMEONE to call me on Christmas and New Year’s. But not just anyone.

    I want someone to hold me, love me, make love to me. I had thought things were going far better with Ryan. I had thought that after he didn’t have his phone on Christmas that he would call me to at least wish me Happy New Year, or maybe even get together with me. I hate being single. I hate dating.

    I feel ANGRY. When the fu(ck is it gonna be MY turn?


    I feel deep, deep sadness. I feel like a limp rag doll laying in a puddle. I don’t want to go on single. I just want to curl up in a ball and cry.

  173.  #173Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 9:32 am


    RE: #170 – LOL!

  174.  #174Janie on January 4, 2011 at 9:37 am

    Re: Brenda and Ryan

    Just wondering about sirens saying they are mad at Ryan.

    Ryan is just doing what he wants to do. He makes it clear he doesn’t want to see Brenda. He could be friends. He rarely contacts Brenda. He doesn’t want a love relationship with Brenda. What is there to be mad about?

    I feel more like Brenda deserves hugs and help and encouragement to love herself. The relationship has been over since November 2009.

  175.  #175Janie on January 4, 2011 at 9:42 am

    “But the man told me Ryan wasn’t ready, that he couldn’t be free until he was desperate. Why isn’t he desperate?? Isn’t it enough to have most of your life destroyed? He can’t work; he can’t have a relationship and kids; he doesn’t have money; he doesn’t have friends. What more does he have to lose before he becomes desperate??”

    Is Ryan a mirror? Could you ask yourself the same questions?

  176.  #176Lori on January 4, 2011 at 9:44 am


    Just letting Brenda know it’s ok to feel angry and disappointed and to embrace that and let it out and not make excuses to sit around and make herself miserable by waiting for him.

  177.  #177Lori on January 4, 2011 at 9:46 am

    I do feel that although Brenda WANTS real intimacy, she also FEARS it, which is why she is attracted to men who are either physically (prison) or emotionally (Ryan) unavailable. I see alot of myself 2 years ago in her when I was only attracted to men who lived long distance….

  178.  #178Janie on January 4, 2011 at 9:50 am

    It is good to get anger out I agree. Although sometimes anger has a way of just being the flip side of love or loving feelings. So that when someone gets out her anger then she sometimes just goes back to her loving feelings. I find sometimes it is better to come to the place of calmly realizing someone is not for me – coming to a peaceful place. That is where I can be the strongest. Anger can lead to passion. I’m not saying anger is not there or important…just saying it isn’t always the way to move away from someone.

  179.  #179Simply Shannon on January 4, 2011 at 9:51 am

    Brenda, you are not the only one who has ever been stuck on a man, who has felt such horrible pain, who couldn’t move on for a very long time. I’ve been where you are COUNTLESS times. I have been you literally and figuratively with nearly every man I’ve ever dated.

    Here’s an older post I found that may resonate with you.

    Actually the first comment by heartbeat jumped out at me. She says:
    “Most students would draw the cup they imagined rather than the cup right there in front of them.”

    With Ryan, I believe you are drawing the Ryan you imagine and not the real one.

    What I see is not love but addiction to pain. He’s beating the shit out of you daily and you think this is normal… how men are.

    I call bullshit. For you and for myself. BULLSHIT!

    I feel frustrated.

    The voice of Brenda is a deep part of myself. Mirroring itself for me to see it loud and clear.

    I feel deep sadness for my inability to let go even when I was hurting so terribly.

    I feel deep sadness for my choices to stay in bad situations.

    I feel deep sadness for how unworthy I felt of love.

    I feel relief being released of those demons. Dear God, sweet relief. Hindsight is a 20/20 and thank GOD for being able to see it now.

    I feel happy and hopeful for the things to come in my life.

    I feel hopeful that I no longer have to be in this dark place.

    Brenda (and me), I will keep loving you forever, calling you softly, and pursuing you FOREVER. We’ll take as long as it takes until you love you.

    What can we do to help us see?

  180.  #180Janie on January 4, 2011 at 9:52 am

    I’ve been getting “The No Contact Rule Mail” from Baggage Reclaim. Todays email:

    “In the last email I talked about how boredom can have you wanting to seek out attention from your ex, which is basically like going to the source of pain for attention and entertainment. In the initial stages of NC, certainly for several weeks to a few months, you need to keep busy. Period.
    You are getting over a painful relationship that has required NC which means you are grieving the loss and planning to rebuild your life…without them in it.
    These relationships that we’ve been in can be pretty intense and so when everything is used to revolving around them, it’s easy to fall into the trap of still feeling like everything is centered around them after you’ve cut contact.
    What have I changed about my life routine and my own love habits and beliefs to help me be in a position to work through NC, get over the relationship, and be a happier person with a full life that doesn’t revolve around a person or drama?

    This is the big question that you should ask yourself when the boredom kicks in and your mind starts going into overtime thinking about them, the coulda, woulda, shoulda’s and looking for reasons to throw in the towel on NC.

    I’ve said before that NC is like closing the door on the relationship and that the actual act of NC is that when the other person tries to push the door, they must be met with a closed one. An opening sends a signal that you still want them even if it is not what you intended to convey.
    If you don’t start rebuilding your life and filling it up with meaningful things to nurture you, it’s like you’re creating an open space for them to step back through. When you keep busy doing stuff and working in your best interests, the frame, the door, and the lock go on.

    Once you’re over that initial couple of weeks, it can help to tell yourself to put off obsessing until a certain time of day. ‘Nope – it’s not 8pm yet so I will have to think about something else’. Setting a time for having an Obsessing Session not only allows you to keep a real and give yourself a dedicated opportunity to give into thinking, but it means you have to put it off, refocus, and choose something else to do. Oh and set a time limit for your Obsession Session – one hour tops. You’ll find you often won’t use them.
    Get in touch with your friends and try to ensure that there is at least one person who when you get bored or feel the urge to make contact, they’ll chat, be ready to hang out, and give you a sanity check.
    Make sure that you have variety in your life as monotony has the potential to trigger boredom as you’ll seek ‘excitement’.
    Don’t just go through the motions. You may grit your teeth at first or feel ‘fake’ but throw yourself back into life with gusto – don’t just tread water.

    If your life is fairly routine and even dare I say it, predictable, what new things have you done?

    Think about the past month, how much of that time have you spent thinking about:
    a) how you’re never going to find love or any other negative thoughts you have about yourself, love, and relationships; or
    b) your ex or an elusive object of your affections?
    Find something new to do. Try them out. If you don’t enjoy, try something else. Break your routine. Create a new, better one.
    While taking some time off work often happens, it’s important to get back into the rhythm of life – there is no point in letting your career go to the wall. Force yourself back to your desk or whatever it is that you do.
    When I did NC, I took stock of my home, went around room by room working out tasks that needed doing such as sorting and tidying, improvements, and things I’d like to buy. I made a list and got on with it. I was very busy and it ended up being a lot of fun. Cleaning and tidying is surprisingly therapeutic.
    I also took stock of my life. I created short, medium, and long-term goals and suddenly realised I had LOTS of things I wanted to do and most of them had nothing to do with a guy. I immediately started getting on with these things and working towards them – highly satisfying.
    Hijack your thoughts. When I was NC, I discovered that if I didn’t pay attention to myself and carry me consciously, my mind would drift and a thought pattern of negativity and/or nostalgia would kick in. I started listening to myself and interjecting on what amounted to, at times, ridiculous thoughts about my ex. I replaced them with other thoughts plus I used it as my signal to get out of the house, to do something, and to basically get real and get living.
    It is unhealthy for the source of your happiness, amusement, attention, validation, reason for being to be focused on one person and at it’s worst can point to co-dependency.
    Use this period of NC to take the focus off them and bring it back to you and get used to your own company and occupying yourself and filling up your life.”

  181.  #181Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 9:54 am


    RE: #174 – I feel false condemnation from that question, and I don’t receive that.

    It should be abundantly obvious that I am asking those questions or I wouldn’t be on this blog day in and day out working on my healing, along with many things I’m doing outside this blog.

    Don’t shoot the wounded.

  182.  #182Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 9:54 am


    P.S. And, yes, I feel angry.

  183.  #183Jean on January 4, 2011 at 9:55 am

    Brenda, not on here too often but read the comments here and want to send a big hug to you.
    You are a brave and goddessy woman. It feels sad to hear your pain. We are all here to learn and to grow, to help each other. When you feel anger and sadness, you are working thru to get to a better place that YOU want to be. I feel that you have made RYAN the center of your life and now you know that and you are ready to move forward to make YOU the center of you life. That is what Rori teaches us..that it does not matter, what a man feels, thinks, does, etc…then we put the focus on them. It is how WE FEEL when we are with a man, that is what counts. You are the focus of your world and you need to do the things that make YOU feel wonderful. So that you can stop the hurt, the lonely, the sad, the pain. and taking baby steps to get there and to be loving and kind and gentle and caring and soft with yourself. What do you think?

  184.  #184Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 9:58 am


    RE: #176 – Altho in the past I feared intimacy as much as I wanted it, I have come a very long way on that, which is why I felt so joyful when I was dating a man who lived 3 miles away.

    When Ryan was with me, we lay in bed gazing at each other through more than half of a Micheal Bolton album. That was intimate. I sucked it up, baby!

    I bared my heart and soul to Ryan, and I bare it on here, a public blog, and that’s pretty darn vulnerable. I felt most fearful when Ryan saw my body naked, because I am plus sized and I felt self-conscious. But I did it.

    I welcomed physical, emotional, and spiritual intimacy.

  185.  #185Simply Shannon on January 4, 2011 at 10:00 am

    Janie, re: 173, Telling me the “facts” as you see them does not feel good. I feel quite angry actually.

    Thank you for reminding me of my “imaginary relationship” which ended in November 2009… yes thank you for that lovely little factoid. I feel so much better when it’s put in black and white like that. Wow. How did I never see that?

    I appreciate your attempt to make me feel better but I feel MAD.

    Brenda/Shannon (aka BS!!!!)

    P.S. I do believe my inner drama queen Shanaynay had a hand in writing this message. 🙂

  186.  #186Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 10:01 am


    RE: #178 – That is beautiful. Thank you. Now I’m crying.

  187.  #187Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 10:05 am


    RE: #179 – Good article, right on!

  188.  #188Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 10:07 am


    RE: #182 – Thank you, yes, I am trying to work on loving myself and changing myself.

  189.  #189Lizzie on January 4, 2011 at 10:10 am

    Brenda sweetie, the pain and anguish you express touches my heart strings. All I can offer is to consider everything in balance – see yourself as a house with 4 rooms: Spiritual; Intellectual; Emotional; Physical. Over the past few months I have heard you express issues and concerns within each of these houses as well as some lovely good things within each. Yet on balance, and as with all people, there is work to do in each room. Pursuing the philosophy of the house of four rooms – balance and health need to exist within each – and naturally, house cleaning works wonders! And house cleaning needs to happen in each room for balance to be achieved.

    Depression is a terrible thing and may be connected with reluctance to let go of the dust-bunnies that live in each room; but the dust bunnies need to go! So, you got rid of the job that was toxic to you…what else can you get rid of??? there is so much to get rid of! – get rid of pain, anguish, weight, bad eating habbits, smoking, negative thoughts, bad vibes, toxic behaviour, toxic friends, toxic family, debt, clutter and on and on. Naturally there needs to be priorities and processes however, steps and progess need to be made to get balance back into life.

    I hope that helps.

  190.  #190Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 10:15 am


    RE: #184 – LOL! Love that “Shanaynay”! 😆 I think my inner drama queen is “BrenDUH!” My brothers called me that, and it was unkind. But when I get pissed, I think that fits, cuz it gets me even more pissed! LOL!

    The thing is, it wasn’t an imaginary relationship up until the end of Nov 2009. And after that, Ryan was texting me about once a week or so. I saw him twice in Jan. 2010. He just hasn’t told me much at all about how he feels about our relationship. He has been mostly staying in polite, surface conversation.

    When we talked 3 weeks ago, his voice sounded so loving and caring, and he very sweetly accepted my apology for past stuff and gave me his apology. I thought everything was back to terrific.

    I think he’s just focusing on his own healing, and he can’t handle much outside of that. But that’s been an ongoing state for a very long time.

    Just so hard to let go. I never felt closer to anyone than I felt to Ryan. It’s that intimacy and love I desire very deeply. I don’t feel that with just any man. What I really like about Ryan is he’s extremely intelligent and sensitive. He has deep psychological understanding, while Kenny calls it “psychobabble”. Few men stimulate me intellectually. I feel bored with most men. Ryan has genius level intelligence.

  191.  #191Janie on January 4, 2011 at 10:16 am


    It’s always good to be triggered! Mostly I really get lots from your posts. I guess you being so angry at Ryan triggered me!

  192.  #192Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 10:18 am


    RE: #188 – Hey! I really like your analogy about the four rooms! And I feel really good reading that, because I’ve been getting rid of toxic relationships lately! And I mean outside of Ryan.

    Right on about finding that balance. And doing the real housecleaning helps toward that end, too. Like in the article Janie posted, it can be therapeutic to organize and clean. Going to do some of that today.

  193.  #193Janie on January 4, 2011 at 10:18 am

    Brenda re 180. I find it amazing how much time I can spend on being frustrated with a guy. If I spent half that amount of time on myself I could move mountains and I believe you (and other sirens) could too!

  194.  #194Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 10:24 am

    Hey, this is cool! I recently got back in touch with a man who I briefly dated about 5 years ago. He just emailed me and asked me out for lunch on Wed!

  195.  #195Becky on January 4, 2011 at 10:49 am

    Hi Ladies,

    I’m Becky. I’ve posted a few times before, and I have really enjoyed this site.

    I just turned 30 and I’m back in the dating world after 2 1/2 years of being the string along. I am so happy to have found this program. Over the last few months I have read at least two dozen books on relationships and although I don’t belong to any one relationship religion lol I have learned so much from all of them.

    I’m at that point with dating that I want to find Mr. Right but don’t want to come off as desperate. How many of you are struggling with that? I have gone on at least three to four dates a week for the last few months, and although I have one guy who is more interesting than others, and I have dated better guys all around, I know I could be doing more but I get exhausted as well. It seems that so many men need training as far as how to court a girl, and I get frustrated instead of being open and vulnerable, I just get frustrated. What are your best ways with coping with this frustration and keep dating fun?

  196.  #196Simply Shannon on January 4, 2011 at 10:50 am

    Message today from my primary CD:

    “I really enjoy being around you for some reason. You have this halo or aura of positive energy around you all the time. Gotta get me some of that!”

    SAAA-WEET!!! 🙂

  197.  #197Simply Shannon on January 4, 2011 at 10:54 am

    Becky, What would you say to the guys who don’t really interest you? Pretend you’re talking to “Bob” (or whatever guy that doesn’t cut the mustard for you). What would you say?

    Hey Becky, it’s Bob. Would you like to go out with me on Friday night?

  198.  #198Daria on January 4, 2011 at 10:55 am

    Making note…
    Massaging my scalp and brushing my hair really helped w head feeling better.

    Doing ladybugs t tapp in bed felt good.

    Mullein felt good and my sore throat and chest stuff cleared.

    Comfrey oil helped my nose and the sore parts of my neck.

    Excedrin for migraine had 250 aspirin 250 acetaminophen 60 caffeine helped make me feel better.

    160 aspirin didn’t.

    Adrenatone herbs really helped! Made me hot in a good way And brought my fever down.

    Calves were sore… Cd massaging them felt good.

    Massaging felt good period.

    Rubbing eucalyptus oil in between my eyes seemed to help. Rubbing castor oil did not.

  199.  #199rose on January 4, 2011 at 11:07 am

    i take you are still mad…that you work out yourself….i cant push you into anything that you dont want…i still feel th hurt..but you have get over it your self…please tell me about a baby i heard so much…that is all i hear..

  200.  #200Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 11:21 am


    RE: #195 – Congratulations on your Sireny vibe!

  201.  #201Soul Sista on January 4, 2011 at 11:24 am

    …it’s never too late to marry…AND have a family! yipppeeeee!

  202.  #202Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 11:25 am

    Calling All Change-Makers…This Is for You!

    Here is a newsletter I received from a business coach, Ryan Eliason about an upcoming teleconference and web conference about changing the world…

    “I’ve been working hard over the last six months to put together a unique line-up of visionary non-profit leaders and business innovators who are committed to the type of profound, fundamental social change needed on our planet at this time.

    “I’m extremely proud of the interview series I’ve put together. Many people have been asking me how I was able to get all of these wildly successful (some famous) and very busy people to say yes to being interviewed. The answer is because they care about the cause, and they want the change-makers of the world to have the tools needed for success.

    “We’ve barely begun to tell people about this opportunity and already more than 1,000 people from all over the world have registered.

    “I hope tens of thousands of people will be tuning in. In fact, we’re working to make that a reality.

    “If you didn’t already register, you can do that here:
    Social Entrepreneur Empowerment Series

    In service,


    P.S. You can also go here to see the speaker schedule and short descriptions of the fascinating interviews.

  203.  #203Daria on January 4, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Now ate egg and bread.

    Still Feelin a lil sad about head feeling pressured and sometimes wincing in pain. Love you head. Thank u for loving me.

  204.  #204Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 11:39 am


    Do you know why head feels pressured?

  205.  #205Soul Sista on January 4, 2011 at 11:46 am

    Brenda ~ I thought I posted this AM that I was thinking about you and wondering how you were doing…

    …and i’m still feeling on top of the world…a brand new woman…i was telling siren stories to my mom and she was cracking up 🙂


  206.  #206Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 11:55 am

    Hi Soul Sista Brenda,

    I saw your post earlier on another thread and responded. Thanks! Go AZ!

  207.  #207Soul Sista on January 4, 2011 at 11:56 am

    brenda what thread was that i closed my browser

  208.  #208Vicki Kerns on January 4, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    Hi Sirens-

    It’s been awhile since I’ve posted, but this article grabbed my attention. I am 54, soon to be 55, and have never been married. Sometimes I feel like people look at me like I have a hump on my back when I tell them this. When asked by dates why I’ve never married, without going into great detail about how my lack of self-esteem over the years has only led me to “schmucks,” I simply say that my 20s were my party years, 30s I went back to college, 40s I was concentrating on career and now I’m in my 50s, AND I’ve never met my soul mate.

    During my 20s, 30s, and even into my 40s, not being married has never really bothered me. What HAS bothered me more than anything is constantly being without that someone special to share things with in my life. The older I get, the more this concerns me. I really am tired of living alone and, while I’m not necessarily foaming at the mouth to walk down the aisle, I really would like to find a significant other to spend the rest of my life with.

    I spent 5 long years being “hopelessly in love” — one-sided and an imaginary relationship — with an idiot who could not return my love. I’ve been thru, and continue to go thru, my Rori guidance, working to build up my self-esteem and inner strength. I let that man drag my heart through the mud for way too long and I allowed him to use me. Now he is off happily with some other woman giving her everything that I had wanted.

    I tried to remain friends with him but shortly after he hooked up with this other woman, I got one of his generic Facebook messages of “I’m off to have a drink with my wonderful girl. Life is sooooo good.” He said he had been trying to filter those messages but I don’t really believe in “accidents.” So I contacted him, told him I was very happy for him, wished him all the best, and said that I had to do something for myself and that was to drop him from my Facebook friends and emails. I told him that as much as I would like to remain friends with him, that at this point in time I could not separate my feelings from the friendship and therefore needed to end it once and for all.

    It’s an ongoing struggle, and I also fight depression, but I am bound and determined that I am going to keep moving upward. I am stronger right now than I’ve ever been but I still have a long way to go. The holidays were very depressing for me (missed my mom, missed my dog I lost a few months ago, and even missed the a**hole), so I’m glad the holidays are past.

    I have been on 3 dates in the last couple of months (that’s more than I’ve been on in the last 10 years). They were unsuccessful and the guys turned out to be yucky BUT I can now recognize that and keep moving instead of going back for more. So that’s a good thing! I am still chatting with a number of guys and will be going on more dates. I even went to a singles event (by myself) at a “disco” last month and had a great time. Normally, I would not go by myself and even if I was with someone, I would usually sit and not mingle. I was very proud of myself as I went to several of the marked tables, introduced myself, and chatted with a number of people, men and women, plus I danced all evening. It was great!

    I have decided that 2011 is going to be my year and I am starting to work on diet and exercise as I put on some more weight over the holidays (stress eater). Plus, I have started going back to church and am working on my spiritual side.

    One question I have that I need help with. I still have feelings for this former love and I still harbor bitter feelings, especially when I see a picture of him and his new love with big smiles on their faces. And I have a hard time not wishing that he someday gets a taste of what I went through. I pray every day, and I am trying to work on letting him, and these bitter feelings, go, but I have such a hard time doing it. Does anyone have any advice on what has helped them? I am trying to just concentrate on myself for now and becoming the best me that I can, but I still get these lonely pangs.

  209.  #209Daria on January 4, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    Brenda – I have a stuffy sinus flu … I was all efd up! I’m doing some acuptessure I found online and it’s helping.

  210.  #210Daria on January 4, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    I think the emotional reason behind the flu was that Daria did not want to go to community service or get yelled at by her dad in discussing bank people.

  211.  #211Daria on January 4, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    About the anger… This is anger at ourselves… Blaming the man is not healing to u’s…

    “Someone said something about not understanding the anger toward Ryan. Well you may not understand it but I sure do! See our self esteem and self love is limited if not gone. And just when we build it a little (but not to the point of being able reject them) their damn radar goes off and they reappear in some fashion to pull us back down and feed their own ego. And the ugly cycle begins again”

    The man reappears because the vibe improves. Because he feels the attraction to u’s.

    Not to bring u’s down or harm u’s!

    That’s all in our past patterns… Started way before the man…

    If we clear and improve our vibe… We will be able to receive man attention to boost u’s, instead of perceiving as bringing u’s down. This is about u’s. Really.

  212.  #212Lizzie on January 4, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    Knocksoftly, I have been at the bottom of the ladder. The only way up for me was to cut the freaking ties and clear out the dust bunnies. Letting go of what I thought I was responsible for, what I thought was “good” and actually wasn’t, relationships I thought were “heathy” and/or “good” and were incredibly distructive … it was a decision. Flip the switch. Just do it. Let it go. Say good bye. Slice it off. Slam the door. Get rid of it. Blow it up. That is the only way it worked for me. Someone told me that if I hang on, hold out hope, give energy to it in any way, that I would never move through it. Step off the threshold! Go forth! Rest assured, it was difficult. And what I never realized until I let go, was the enormous freedom and self-love I felt for the first time in my life. And this is even more amazing, as you have seen me here all summer and the number of times I was quitting dating!…. as soon as I set myself free of all the nonsense – the right guy just showed-up. It is so easy, I can not believe it! So unbelievably easy. And now I am having a blast. I have even got my mojo back in my business. Next on the list….debt reduction. Wohooo! And I am just lounging in the boat with the new man who professes total adoration – like who new??? It has been a 7-year journey through hel-l and even longer in a gay marriage, and even longer as the daughter of addicted and abusive parents…. It can be done my siren friend. Every time you pine…kick that dust bunny out….think of the strength you have from living in disfunctional relationships – it is a strength like no other. Turn to that strength and let it feed and nurish you.

  213.  #213Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    Soul Sista,

    I don’t remember. You said you are looking to move to AZ.

  214.  #214tinque on January 4, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    Vicki Kerns – It’s so nice seeing you again.
    “I still get these lonely pangs.”

    Well I still get them too, and I’m in a wonderful relationship. I wonder sometimes if people who have been through traumatic childhoods which carried on into emotionally abusive adult relationships will always have traces of the “lack” that never was when it “should” have been.

    I have learned Vicki, to embrace my deep sadness as being an integral part of me. It’s not an overwhelming part anymore, and in this I can take great comfort, yet sometimes I feel it more than others. And sometimes it can hurt, get me to feeling a bit down.

    I accept it as an isness of who me is. Ups and downs, is and outs, sadness and joy, and yes loneliness are part of what being a loving sensual human woman is.

    Yes of course it feels better that I have found my “the one”, but it’s not a cure all. My stuff is my stuff, and it will be something I will likely always be working on or playing on as the case may be.


  215.  #215Daria on January 4, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    It’s anger at ourselves for n

  216.  #216Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 12:43 pm


    RE: #209 – I highly recommend “Oregacyn”. It’s concentrated oregano in pill form. I had pneumonia once, and it’s powerful for breaking up mucous and getting it out!

  217.  #217Daria on January 4, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    ot taking care of ourselves… Then we place the anger on him…

    Yet don’t express it… Because he may indeed trigger some justified anger … And that gets stuffed.

    “I feel angry at you because I don’t feel loved”

    “I feel angry at me because I don’t feel loved”

    ” I don’t like being talked to this way”

    I feel emotionally addicted and I feel angry about it

    I don’t want to feel unimportant

    I don’t want to feel abandoned

  218.  #218Soul Sista on January 4, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    brenda ~ yes, my mom is considering it and we have some leads on things…she moved to Idaho because of HIM…and it’s not too late for her to find a good man! she’s 69 (widowed 4 weeks ago).

    i’m teaching her the siren ways…and we’re having fun reading the responses i get from guys and chatting with one here and there online 🙂

    but, brenda, it was only 2 weeks ago before i had my shift, that i was having mood swings, crying every day, closed my Facebook because i couldn’t bear talking to my friends and my fans…now i am OVERJOYED. just stick with it…we are rooting for you and it will happen!


  219.  #219Daria on January 4, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    Brenda – thanks! I will maybe try that or oregano in another way when I get my hands on it… I thought about it… Glad to hear it works

  220.  #220Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 1:06 pm


    RE: #207 – Wow, I feel like crying. What you wrote really touches me. I am far more of a mess than what I’ve described on here. Yesterday I just laid around the house feeling, thinking, and doing little. The day before, Sunday, I talked with Ryan on the phone twice and cried hard for about 2 hours straight. BTW, Daria, that really cleared my nasal passages, too! 🙂 They were all clear for the next day!

    If you want to commiserate, you are welcome to email me at, if that would feel safer to you. I feel quite vulnerable with the stuff I put out here, too.

    Shortly after Ryan’s false proposal, someone told me I just like to get attention telling my sob story. I told him how the opposite is true. I feel so embarrassed! How much better I’d feel to have been telling all my friends I’m engaged to the most wonderful man I ever met, and to have a truly happy marriage!

    A proposal is the crowning moment of a woman’s life! I felt so humiliated to reach that moment, after he totally led me on and gave me every reason to believe he was going to propose, and have him say I’m not in love with you. I forgave him the next day. But I still have not fully recovered from the pain of it. And I guess that’s why I keep talking about it, and each time, whether or not it looks like it to all of you, I find a little more peace and contentedness, after you all share your hearts with me. So I guess that’s why I keep making myself vulnerable.

    Then again, a part of me feels like I’ve been psychologically crucified, so what the fu(ck? Why not go for broke? Like Shannon said, I’m used to being hurt. But I receive more help than hurt here, so that’s why I keep taking the risk. Anyway, feel free to email me. I sure would appreciate being able to commiserate with you, and I feel understood by what you wrote.

  221.  #221Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 1:19 pm


    RE: #208 – “foaming at the mouth to walk down the aisle”

    LOL! That’s me!

  222.  #222Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 1:23 pm


    RE: #211 – That is an excellent piece of writing! You read like Rori more and more all the time. Please take that as a compliment…I appreciate YOUR unique voice. But I really value your posts and I am gaining a lot from meditating on things you tell me. Thanks a lot for caring and taking the time to do so.

  223.  #223Virginia Feingold Clark on January 4, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    I am amazed at all the thoughtful and heartfelt posts. Rori certainly inspires a lively discussion and creates an environment where everyone shares their ideas and encouragement. I appreciate everyone’s input and look forward to adding some of my own.

  224.  #224Daria on January 4, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    Brenda – when I read this
    I felt so humiliated to reach that moment, after he totally led me on and gave me every reason to believe he was going to propose, and have him say I’m not in love with you. I forgave him the next day

    I get big red flags ! It sounds emotionally unhealthy… Like a person with no boundaries…

    You may be treating yourself shockingly bad because it draws attention to you…

    The shock factor pulls in attentiOn.

    I do this too in other ways…

    But it seems your way is by hurting yourself

  225.  #225Senior Lady Vibe on January 4, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    @207: Vicki Kerns says:

    “…Does anyone have any advice on what has helped them? I am trying to just concentrate on myself for now and becoming the best me that I can, but I still get these lonely pangs…”

    I found this Rori post to be helpful:

    Don’t Let Go, Don’t Resolve, Forget Closure and Stay On Your Horse


  226.  #226Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 1:31 pm


    RE: #218 – That is really, really deep.

  227.  #227Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    Soul Sista,

    RE: #219 – That’s terrific you’re sharing this with your Mom! Thanks for the encouragement!

    Where in AZ? I lived in Phoenix.

  228.  #228Senior Lady Vibe on January 4, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    @207: Vicki Kerns says:

    …But… if you need to go “ninja drastic” at same time you are getting your head together with Rori, becoming a siren and starting to Circular Date whatever that means for you…

    …I found this helpful also:

    No Contact Rule


  229.  #229Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 1:37 pm


    RE: #225 – That doesn’t resonate with me. I don’t think so. The week preceding his fake proposal, I was excitedly sharing with my friends, who also knew Ryan, at the community center where I met him. I told them things he had done and said, saying, “I think I’m on the verge of him giving me a ring!!”

    I felt utterly humiliated to go back to those friends and tell them my heart was ripped out instead. BTW, I spent New Year’s Eve with two of those friends. When I mentioned Ryan, they just got quiet.

    I like to interact with people, and I like to do that on this blog as well. And that’s normal and healthy. I wonder if the attention-getting theme from you is a mirror?

  230.  #230Simply Shannon on January 4, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    Brenda, I wonder why those friends got quiet when you mentioned Ryan on NYE. I wonder if they saw something that you didn’t and that is why they stayed silent. Did anyone agree with you about the impending proposal? I don’t want to blast you but I’m feeling the need to flip this memory over.

    It’s like your story stopped that night with Ryan. We haven’t let go of the memory, of the pain of it yet. We’re still back there with the memory.

    How do we move forward?

  231.  #231Senior Lady Vibe on January 4, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    @218: Soul Sista says:
    “yes, my mom is considering it ,,,and it’s not too late for her to find a good man! she’s 69 (widowed 4 weeks ago)…
    i’m teaching her the siren ways…”

    Good for both of you. Way to go!

    Soul Sista says:

    “… it was only 2 weeks ago before i had my shift,..”

    How did it feel? I had a shift on New Year’s Day. I was very surprised, I suddenly felt very light and no longer “attached.”

    I’ve swung back a bit the other way just a tad so guess this is to be expected but now that I KNOW I’ll swing back totally in time…
    …I feel really good! “From my head to my shoes” as Patti LaBelle would say…

    Good luck and best wishes to you and your Mom.


  232.  #232Soul Sista on January 4, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    SLV ~ OMG it’s like night and day…it’s a flip…i care about MY feelings…not how he is feeling about what i do or say.

    and it’s all ME…he never had the chance to step up before but live and learn. if he doesn’t step up someone else will and that man will deserve me…and get to have me all to himself 🙂

    CD’ng for now…

  233.  #233Simply Shannon on January 4, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    Knocksoftly and Brenda, would you feel bold enough to share everything here? I really believe there are more of “us” here. If y’all go to email, someone else would lose the benefit of hearing about your journey. What do you think?

  234.  #234Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 1:53 pm


    RE: #231 – If you’re saying I imagined that he was about to propose, that is not so. It was very solid stuff he said and did. I have detailed it on here before. I am not asking you to dig in the archives. I just don’t feel like writing it out right now. I did NOT imagine that he was about to propose. He INTENTIONALLY led me on, and that fit his pattern. He repeatedly let me think our relationship was at a certain level, then he’d cut me off at the knees. I call it heart-fu(cking.

  235.  #235Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 1:54 pm


    RE: #232 – That sounds good! My goal for today is to update my budget for all my expenditures in December. What is yours?

  236.  #236Brenda on January 4, 2011 at 1:56 pm


    RE: #235 – Up to a point I am willing to share here. But I texted him again last night, and that part I haven’t shared….oops!

  237.  #237Soul Sista on January 4, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    right before I shifted into this new woman i am now…i asked myself – (i posted it here, too) how is this making you feel (the thinking about what was going on with HIM) i answered, it feels bad! and it’s not SUPPOSED to feel BAD! it’s supposed to FEEL GOOD!

    something clicked in me and i NO LONGER CARED WHAT THE REASON WAS. i set myself free.

  238.  #238Daria on January 4, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    Bullshit. I feel mad.

    Brenda outside of this proposal that didn’t happen, what else did Ryan do to “cut you off at the knees”?

    Is heart Fuc’k similar to telling u’s you want help but you are not telling that u texted him yesterday? Is it heartfuxcked I feel right now?

    My guess is he was going to propose but realized last minute that no matter how much he wanted the romance, he couldn’t go thru w marrying an emotionally unhealthy woman.

  239.  #239Daria on January 4, 2011 at 2:29 pm

    Brenda I Know you do this attention getting thing! I don’t give a Foch if it doesn’t resonate with you! Fuch you! I’m not here to watch u hurt yourself! Go away and lie to yourself!

    I don’t like being lied to!

  240.  #240Daria on January 4, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    You say super shocking Bullshit like…

    Oh he broke my heart I forgave him immediately.

    He’s great! He heartfuchs!

    I texted him 10,000 times! Why won’t he like me?

    This is unhealthy!

    Repeat: this is unhealthy.

    Repeat: this is unhealthy.

    I Daria am not gonna wince and enable… I don’t like this..,

    I don’t like threats to the blog about you feeling vulnerable… Ie

    Enable me or else!

    It’s damn obvious u use your unhealthiness to get attention and that’s why Ure still stuck.

    I don’t know how to help u but I feel damn mad at you for lying and using my energy.

    Ugh! I hate u!

  241.  #241rose on January 4, 2011 at 2:37 pm

    i dont want to comment on this..because i dont want to make a fool of myself…then this it….i not going to beg..that is not my style….so if you going you way then do it…every time i make a always wrong…

  242.  #242Soul Sista on January 4, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    knocksoftly ~ i feel relieved that you got a spark from what i posted about feeling bad. Rori posted somewhere about feeling bad and we thinking that it’s love because it reminds us of something.

    love is not supposed to hurt. xoxo

  243.  #243Ella on January 4, 2011 at 2:43 pm


    You asked a question about how do we express feeling messages (ie you calling / texting Ryan and telling him how much you love him and miss him) while still raising your degree of difficulty and leaning back.

    For me I only express my emotions in feelings messages to men who are coming towards me (leaning forward).

    Right now Ryan is not so I would guess your expressions feel quite uncomfortable to him.

    What do you think?

    If the men are not coming forward and I have emotions about him then I express those to myself, feel my feelings, work through it… or on here etc… but not to him.

    How would it feel to let it all out on here? Maybe in a big, full on riff?

    Your post also triggered me bc I have had situations where I was backing off from a guy and unsure how I felt, or kinda luke warm…

    told him this through words and actions that I was not sure I was feeling it, and he has just come on twice as strong, upped the anti and insisted on telling me his intense feelings about me without any awareness or caring of how uncomfortable it felt for me…

    and it has felt seriously ICK and turn off and inappropriate.

    like the more I backed off the more he poured his feelings onto me.

    And the most interesting thing here is when a guy is doing this to me it always feels like it is never really about me…

    his intense feelings are from a desperate place inside of him that doesn’t really have anything to do with him loving me, and for this reason it feels not genuine and awful.

    I have also been the one doing this to a guy…

    I am not saying this is what is going on here… I don’t know… this is just what it brought up for me.

    On the other hand I feel guilty for saying cus it is clear that you are really hurting.

    And I feel kinda cross towards you, like when are you going to take care of yourself? No one else can heal this except YOU!

    And then I just want to cuddle and protect you.

    Forget Ryan, BRENDA needs love… do whatever you need… see someone if you need outside help

    My heart strings just get tugged at reading and I get triggered.

  244.  #244Rori Raye on January 4, 2011 at 2:49 pm

    Welcome Virginia! And thank you for the gorgeous, helpful post…Love, Rori

  245.  #245Rori Raye on January 4, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    I adore Ryan – and he’s my personal coach. Has been for years. He’s extraordinary. If he’s into it, must be good…Love, Rori

  246.  #246Vicki Kerns on January 4, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    Thanks knocksoftly & Senior Lady Vibe. I will read these posts. Yes, I have been guilty on more than one occasion since dumping him from my Facebook of “Facebook stalking.” And what happens when I do, I feel like total crap after looking at the photos, so as of today, NO MORE! And while I was at it, I had had his 3 kids & not-quite-daughter-in-law as my Facebook friends because I really like all 3 of his children. However, when their photos pop up on my Facebook now, there are photos of them & his new smiling girlfriend, all cozied into the family unit, so today I deleted the kids from my Facebook. Nothing mean intended, I just don’t want to see it.

    And I’ve not attended some events lately (by myself) that normally I might have gone to because I knew “the happy couple” would be there and that I would be miserable. A couple of my friends said, “I wouldn’t let that stop me.” BUT I don’t mind for now because if it was really something that I was burning to attend, I would gather some friends together and go as a unit and to hell with him if he was there.

    But since not going to these few events is not crippling me socially, I just think that for now it’s best not to go and make myself miserable. Besides, these events are way across town & are generally at a bar and I don’t need to risk drinking & driving, plus I really don’t need to be spending the money right now, so it’s no biggie.

    What I’m really working toward is to get this man out of my heart to the point where I can look at him (or them) and really feel nothing one way or the other (except maybe relief that I actually didn’t get stuck with him and his puppets–yes, I said puppets).

    And you ladies are right, this guy has enough emotional baggage to take a couple of trips around the world and he’s been enough women that it’s laughable. Where I ultimately want to be is at the point where when this relationship of his ends (and 99.9% chance that it will, just like all of his others), that when he comes knocking on my door wanting to be my “friend” again (friend, friend w/benefits, fill-in between other women, stroker of his ego, etc.), that I can look him right in the eye and say, “You know, that ship has sailed and I just can’t go there anymore. Good luck to you.”

  247.  #247Lizzie on January 4, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    I pose this question:
    What is pining vs what is stalking behaviour?
    When does it cross the line?
    Is it ok to pine for…lets say a month?
    What is pining for 6 months or longer?
    When is to pine for someone disfunctional?

  248.  #248rose on January 4, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    a..i had enough of this nonsence…i dont want any more…i think we should go our way…if you depress it is up to you to get out of it..only you can do that …we all have problems…but we have to stick it out…..i will not cry any more…i am free….you can do what ever you want to do…as long im not in plan…

  249.  #249Ella on January 4, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    I feel very confused reading this blog tonight.

    Mirrors my outside world right now…

    Think it must be a funny phase of the moon or something!

  250.  #250marina on January 4, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    Whoa, inspirational talk by Majora Carter:

    Check out her website too:

    I am off to bed, XX

  251.  #251marina on January 4, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    Oh, my post is awaiting moderation, bc of two links, check out Majora Carter’s latest inspirational story on TedX.

    Just wanted to say HI to you all, haven’t read your posts yet, will do that tomorrow want to sleep now.

    Hihi, well actually not much to say, feel happy 🙂

    I am starting to notice that there are many very nice men around that want to do little things for me, even when they don’t know me, like in the train or at work.
    I am starting to discover my female, sireny side a little bit.
    Hmm, I like to be a woman, not just a girl, but a woman 🙂
    Oh, it feels a bit scary to say that.

    Hope you are all feeling good too!

    XXX, Marina

  252.  #252rose on January 4, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    ryan.i see you are watch again..can use your intercom…again you going backwoods..why i am not allow to come up..are you being watch again…ryan…i am not going get involue with this one…i can’t go thorugh this any more….the best is to stay away…the best thing is break will never have a life of own…

  253.  #253Ella on January 4, 2011 at 3:44 pm


    You have to know how to always stay open, and yet always feel strong enough to walk away. At any moment. That’s Power….

  254.  #254Ella on January 4, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    To …

    Speech re children & issues…

    ……. Then ….

    I feel unsafe sometimes.

    I feel like I am committed / being asked to commit to you before I know you properly.

    To feel safe I need to see how my man will handle different situations.

    Strong boundaries make me feel safe.

    I want to feel safe.

    This takes time.

    I want some normality in my life.

    Knowing the person I am with will be strong in difficult situations helps me to feel safe and that helps me to feel healthy.

    I want to feel healthy.

    I feel good that I can express this to you.

  255.  #255Ella on January 4, 2011 at 3:53 pm

    Note to me:

    I can have strong boundaries.

    I can make myself feel safe.

    I can handle difficult situations.

    I have the right to take my time.

    I want to be healthy… I can look after myself to give myself health.

    I feel good that I can express myself.

    I feel love from you tonight.

  256.  #256rose on January 4, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    i walk away when i see something coming around again…vickie trying to understand him…but he doesnt listen to me….but i think he is happy now that we broke up…he will not speak to me..he is some kind of trouble..and he can answer the intercom…he we go again with the same problem…icant live like this….

  257.  #257marina on January 4, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    Eve Ensler: happiness in body and soul:

    About feeling your feelings, living in your body instead of your head, sounds familiair?

  258.  #258Denise on January 4, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    Stopping by to say Happy New Year! Cheers to my siren friends! May this year be filled with your wishes come true.

    Been so so so busy over the holidays, and yes, it is never too late! FYI, my Perfect Man has been stepping up and the physicality of our relationship finally changed so I can see the light. My patience, steadiness, and leaning back when necessary has paid off, and the rewards are sweet.

  259.  #259Sweetpea on January 4, 2011 at 6:01 pm


    Re: 244 – 246. I feel horrible reading stuff like this. I don’t understand how you are soooo good at feeling messages, but time and time again, I come on here to read and I see you kicking some siren in the teeth when she’s feeling vulnerable. I want to stand up and defend whoever the target is for the day. I feel defensive.

    For days I will read on here and you give such great advice, and you were the first to acknowledge me when I posted on here. I see the advice you give to others and I think “Wow. Daria really has her sh*t together.” But then I read stuff like this over and over. I know you have it in you to help. I feel confident that you even like helping people. However, comments like this seem so controlling to me.

    I know you have the tools to express your pain and anger in a softer, gentler, more feminine way and perhaps that is why I feel so disappointed reading things like this.

  260.  #260Sweetpea on January 4, 2011 at 6:12 pm


    I don’t consider someone not telling me something to be lying.Your post regarding guywhohadababy was awesome and very helpful to me. I feel that much of what you say is such a big help to so many people. I don’t feel intimidated, but but it hurts my heart to see others who feel your wrath crawl off of here like a dog with their tail between their legs.

  261.  #261Daria on January 4, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    Sweetpea – I feel horrible and betrayed and angry at Brenda .

    I feel really really mad.

    I feelt so mad.

    I feel really unseen and unheard.

    I feel like I’m being abused and put in a position to help Brenda hurt herself.

    I am so not ok with that.

    I feel furious and Betrayed by Brenda to be put in that position.

    I feel drained Of my energy and sooo angry!

  262.  #262Daria on January 4, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    Ugh I feel so misunderstood.

    I’m not ok with perpetuating someones addiction.

    Fuc!k that!

    Aseek feel unseen about enforcing my boundary about not perpetuating someones addiction…

    I will hold my boundary whether u or other people like it or not, or understand it, or feel terrible.

    This is My boundary.

    I Will heal this in my life Goddamit.

  263.  #263Turtle Girl on January 4, 2011 at 6:23 pm


    My brother is mentally ill. He can also be a complete bastard behavior wise. And he KNOWS the difference. Trust me Ryan knows the difference too. Get out of jail cuz I’m sick don’t cut it. Sorry. Even the crazie’s know what as*hole is.

  264.  #264LonePlum on January 4, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    Lizzie 253

    Stalking is an *action* against the other.

    You are not free to stalk. Even one single day.
    If the man allows you to speak to him , it is not stalking, it is speaking to him
    If the man told you clearly he can’t deal with you and can’t meet you or can’t speak to you, then speaking to him is stalking.
    If he said politely but clearly he needs his space, then speaking to him is stalking.

    It is an emotional rape, it is a lack of respect for others’ freedom
    It is a denial that they can chose whom they want to speak with and whom they love.
    It is a way to objectify them.
    It is the negation of their soul.
    No matter what the victim is feeling, the stalker does not acknowledge it, he/she selfishly cares only for his/her own needs and force the objectified victim to meet them.
    It is the proof the victim was right to stop speaking to the stalker in the first place, the stalker is not a lover but a taker


    Pining is a *feeling*

    It does not step into the other’s world
    You are free to pine all you want over a real lover or over a man who told you clearly he does not love you.
    You can even pine on a total stranger who does not know you exist
    Pining is inside yourself

    I think that observing a man’s page on FB is only pining.
    I would not feel stalked on FB. A man could check my page a hundred times a day, I would not feel violated because I would not know it
    It is only a public page, it is not my home. Nothing personal transpires through it.

    Pining is a healthy process during which we internalized the lost love as if we were him.
    We need to make him alive within us in order to let go our libido and psyche energy off him.
    Normally, every time we recall him we separate a bit more the memory from the hope until he becomes only a memory.

    It becomes dysfunctional when it takes over all our thoughts and feelings and the separation never occurs.
    It is the lack of progress over time that indicates the dysfunction.

    When pining keeps you from connecting with others, from working, from having personal plans etc… it is dysfunctional.
    When pining pushes you to stalk, it is dysfunctional


  265.  #265Sweetpea on January 4, 2011 at 6:25 pm


    I understand your anger and feelings of betrayal. I just don’t believe you are helping Brenda hurt herself. I think she is hurting but I think she is making progress finally moving on. If she doesn’t feel safe on here, I fear it will make her all the more tempted to lose what little self esteem she’s gained today and crawl right back in a hole.

    She’s obviously hurting. I’ve been there. We’ve all been there to some extent at some point in our lives. I understand your frustration with her. We all want her to see that this isn’t about Ryan, it’s about her. It’s about her loving herself and not letting some man walk on her and letting her excuse it because he has demons.

    I really do understand your frustration. I just hate to see anyone being spoken to so unkindly when they are obviously feeling so broken and vulnerable right now. We are all outside of Brenda’s situation and it’s so easy for us to see, but she’s just beginning to understand why Ryan doesn’t matter and that this really is about her healing and not about Ryan at all. She needs to take care of herself, love herself, and feel supported.

    You are amazing at tough love. I just didn’t feel much love in those messages. I hate to see it, Daria. I hate to see you feeling hurt and betrayed when down deep I think it’s really just frustration because you want to be able to make her SEE. I think that you are really loving and so caring and you really just want to be able to take it from her and fix it for her. And I think you’re frustrated too because she’s hurting and it’s so pointless really. But she’s learning and it’s her path. She’s making progress and much of that is due to your help. But I can imagine she’s feeling betrayed now as well. Like the one person who’s been the most help to her and who she really looks up to as having this siren stuff down pat, has turned her back on her.

    I’m sorry you feel hurt, betrayed and drained. I really am. But I know that you know how to express it without being so blaming and harsh. You have got this down, Daria. Show us. Be a shining example for us all.

  266.  #266Daria on January 4, 2011 at 6:27 pm

    I feel so mad at being blamed for fuc,kin telling my truth taking care of me, and moving towards healing.

    Ugh! Where is my support!

    I am not ok with showering Brenda with advice and then she goes and does the addictive behavior again.

    I am fuc’kIn invested in her healing and u know what maybe that’s the problem.

    I am holding on too tight to Brenda healing and being happy just like I do with other motherfu,ckin people in my life and I am angry at myself and them for taking my kindness and draining me repeatedly and begging for help that they throw in the trash

    That is a fuc’kin lie to me!!!

    I am so mad! I don’t know how to heal these people so what the Fuc’k do I do???

    I don’t want to watch them hurting themselves in front if me.

    This makes me feel bad!

    This is abusive to me! To me!

    It is abusive to me because it makes me feel bad and betrayed and helpless a

    And really fuchkin mad and I almost feel like crying

    And now I’m being judged for fuchkin standing up for myself well Fuc’k that!

    It’s not cute that someone hurts themselves in front of me.

    I feel disgusted.

    I want this fuc’kin behavior that feels bad to me Gone!

    Out of my blog out of my life out of my patterns out of my soul!

    I am really mad at u part of me that exhibits this behavior, holds me back from joy, isn’t honest with me!


  267.  #267Sweetpea on January 4, 2011 at 6:29 pm


    I want to understand this. I don’t want you to feel misunderstood. What exactly is it that you think is the addiction in this case?

    If the addiction is Ryan, I don’t think you’re enabling her at all. You’re helping her to overcome the addiction.

    Are you saying the addiction is attention seeking? Please help me to understand.

  268.  #268Daria on January 4, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    Well I feel unseen for not Muself.

    I’m not your fuc’kin shining example of whatever.

    I am Daria, and I am ugly when the truth is ugly and I
    Daria do Not want to feel betrayed.

    I do Not want to witness this and I am saying no to it.

    Hear me I say No!














  269.  #269life_is_too_short_to... on January 4, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    Need to catch up on posts since this morning, so i don’t know all exactly what has been said by other sirens, but,

    I have to say something to you Brenda~~

    At this time, Ryan isn’t giving to you (We don’t know exactly why, because we do not get into his mind, because he is in charge of that)

    and you are not receiving from him, leaning forward and giving too much so that it isn’t even possible for him, really, to give, the way you want a man to give to you.

    The deck is stacked too much in the Ryan direction.

    Stuckness. Stalemate.

    For how long, now?

    In order to get clear on just how receptive you really are and are capable of being, you need to wash that man out of your hair and open yourself, really open yourself with warmth and willingness to accept, other men.

    Put him on the back of your horse and keep going

    You are in an imaginary relationship.

    Do you want and feel worthy of a real one?


  270.  #270Daria on January 4, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    Mostly Addiction to harming self in order to draw sympathy from others.

  271.  #271Sweetpea on January 4, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    I see. So you think by giving her advice you’re feeding the addiction to sympathy?

  272.  #272Simply Shannon on January 4, 2011 at 6:47 pm

    Daria, I feel this way too…

    “I am fuc’kIn invested in her healing and u know what maybe that’s the problem.

    I am holding on too tight to Brenda healing and being happy just like I do with other motherfu,ckin people in my life and I am angry at myself and them for taking my kindness and draining me repeatedly and begging for help that they throw in the trash.”

    This is something I’m really working on. No longer feeling attached to the outcome of someone else’s healing. Maybe my part is to plant a seed, and I’ll NEVER see it grow. Feels weird and yucky to not know what happened but somethings don’t have clear outcomes. Could be YEARS before something clicks. Then maybe they’ll look back and go “oh yeah, Shannon told me about that years ago”.

    I feel released about this. My frustration level is decreasing bit by bit. My job is not to save the world. I trust that one day “it” will click.

    Sincerely, a Recovering Super Hero

  273.  #273Daria on January 4, 2011 at 6:48 pm

    Well someone is obviously triggered.. How do I, Daria play out this addiction in my life? Where do I play victim to ask for advice and then not use it and ask for advice and then sabotage myself..,
    I do this with my prosperity and abundance and ugh I feel really mad about that grr humbug Fuc’k prosperity and abundance

    I don’t want it,, I want to be flexible lithe and free

    But I also want to switch into my steady ground tied prosperous, self w a garden.

  274.  #274Sweetpea on January 4, 2011 at 6:53 pm

    Speaking of gardens, is there a way you can be grounded but still be flexible, lithe and free, like a vine?

  275.  #275Soul Sista on January 4, 2011 at 6:55 pm

    daria ~ i’m flexible, lithe and free. i set an intention i wanted to feel abundantly grounded before i was ready to be in a relationship. note i said, abundantly, not financially. i’ll be on a financial upswing soon…and i know it because of how abundant i feel and the proof that is in my life.

    also, you asked me once how to get started in singing and i forgot to respond. sing any chance you get. i started in bands because i was walking by a music shop and there was a guy in there i knew checking out a guitar. he started playing and singing a song i knew (what about love – doobie brothers) and i just started singing along with him. he asked me to join his band. that was 28 years ago.

    also, start going to open mics. meet people there and find someone who plays guitar that might accompany you.

  276.  #276Daria on January 4, 2011 at 7:03 pm

    Sweetpea – by nit being honest about my feelings of anger and mistrust and betrayal

    I would be feeding it

    I would be feeding it by pretending that it’s healthy.

    To stalk a man.

    To not pay attention to self.

    To receive advice and agree with it yet repeat behavior that goes against the advice I agreed was good for me.

    To do stuff that is harmful to me

    To ‘forgive’ someone for something I accuse them of hurting me with the next day yet not really forgiving it … and basically Lying to myself.

    I would be feeding the addiction by not telling Brenda the truth because of worrying she might be vulnerable – of course she’s vulnerable – we all are! –

    I don’t see her as any more ‘vulnerable ‘ then myself.

    I see her repeatedly telling stories of herself cast in a gruesome light

    My parents yelled at me and beat me! – well mine did too! – I’m not here for u to play fuchkin victim dammit

    I choosing to be honest now… Even if it may start out unpopular …

    I will be honest when something seems unhealthy to me…

    I have a friend in real life that very much reminds me of Brenda . I want to heal my relationship with her

    I feel paralyzed and bad and trances out shut dien unimportant unseen unloved and helpless when she starts actin in that ‘be sorry for me victim way’ but I Refuse to change hear your advice I Asked for and deflect and pretend not to hear you.

    Fuchk u! Fichk that! I feel mad!

  277.  #277Daria on January 4, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    Thanks soul sista!

  278.  #278Daria on January 4, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    To me lithe and free looks like a native American warrior woman riding alone or kinda like the blue girl in avatar..

    While prosperity looks like the queen of diamonds kinda fat and growing all kinds of vegetables in organized plots on a big piece of land

  279.  #279Daria on January 4, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    Sweetpea – theyre so different the ages I feel a bit discouraged… Tho I can be different parts of me? Right? Right?


    Even tho I don’t think I can yet, I give myself permission to be different parts of me

  280.  #280Lucy on January 4, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    Brenda, I feel sad that you are feeling so bad. 🙁

    I feel a little scared to say more, bc I don’t want to upset you and I feel afraid of being misunderstood….

    but I also care enough about you that I feel bad seeing you stuck and want to help you get unstuck if I can.

    I am wondering…. what if Ryan has decided that you are not “the one” for him? What if he is trying to be compassionate toward you when you contact him and is trying to not hurt you by being as nice as he can, but is having a hard time of it bc you want so much more?

    What else can he do if this is the case?

    On one hand, I can relate to how he feels if this is the case, bc I have been in those shoes with men who just kept hanging on — I didn’t want to hurt them, but I also didn’t really want a relationship with them.

    On the other hand, I can relate to how it feels to be in your shoes — not wanting to let go.

    I am pretty sure that if I kept contacting WH and told him I’m in love with him and miss him etc, like you are doing with Ryan, he would behave similarly to how Ryan behaves — he would try to be kind to me, bc he is a kind man, but his contact would be erratic bc he is trying to live his own life and can’t really keep track of taking care of me and my feelings all the time. He has no responsibility to me, but would try to be caring as time and energy permitted.

    Sometimes I feel some anger toward him for “not wanting me” — but then I kind of laugh at myself, bc he’s not doing anything wrong or bad by not wanting me, and when I remember that, the anger dissolves into feelings of fondness and love for both him and myself.

    Lately I have come to a place where I realize that it doesn’t have to be HIM — I don’t have to have HIM in order to have the relationship I want…. I just have to have someone that I like as much or more than I like him. So, he sorta set a standard for me — since I know now that I can feel that good with a man, I know the feeling I am looking for and won’t settle for less. It’s kind of an obvious point now — if a man comes along who feels just as awesome to be with as he did, it will be easy to let him go.

    In the meantime, I feel a mixture of fondness and pain when he comes to mind.

    The ironic thing is, that’s exactly how HE feels when he thinks of his ex-wife. So, he doesn’t feel any better than I do.

    If you’re not mad at me for what I wrote here, maybe we can get together this weekend. It would feel good to see you.

    Lucy <3

  281.  #281Sweetpea on January 4, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    I fail to see how someone not taking your advice is harmful to you. Draining, yes. I think there’s more to it than that and I still fail to see how telling someone you hate them and to go away is a feeling message.

    You know and I know, and I fail miserably most of the time with this myself, so this is my trigger – wanna help me work through it? Regardless, we both know that when we’re mean and hateful to someone it doesn’t really serve anyone. I’ll speak personally here, all it does for me is make me feel like a jacka** after I’ve calmed down. Yeah. I may have a great reason to be mad. My feelings may be hurt and they may have done something however unintentionally to hurt me. I feel justified in my anger and it feels great to call them names (abusive, working on healing that) and rant and rave and carry on. But after it’s all said and done, all I’ve really done as vented my feelings in a very nonconstructive way. I’ve not done anything to heal the situation or heal myself. I’ve put a wedge between me and the person bringing up these feelings in me. And the reality of the situation is, it’s my trigger that’s angering me. Every time, when I get to the heart of the matter and really look at, it’s not their actions at all. It’s something from my past that’s being dredged up by their actions.

    My big thing I’ve been working on healing right now is when people don’t call me when they say they will. It was brought up by a man, but guess what. Once I started ranting and raving about it and now seeking to heal it, everyone stopped calling me back. Not even people I had talked to about it, just everyone. My friend who had offered to let me come live in her basement while I finish up school, who I was really depending on? Yeah. Haven’t heard from her in almost a month. My best friend back home, called her a couple times, texted her…haven’t heard back from her.

    I believe this is MY issue to heal. It doesn’t have anything to do with them or how bad I need to talk with them or with them not loving me or my not being important to them (I finally realized that this is the basis of my hurt feelings). It has to do with MY seeking personal growth, seeking to be a better person and needing to heal the part of me that feels unworthy. It has to do with my looking in that mirror and fighting that instead of letting it heal. And guess what? I got some weird, twisted reflection of it back.

  282.  #282Daria on January 4, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    Yay Lucy – I feel glad to see u come to the realization about the relationship , not the man..

    According to Rori… Those awesome feelings come from us opening our hearts… And it doesn’t have to be a man who makes u’s feel them right off the bat

    Slowly this is starting to happen for me. But it is slow. I still feel a strong oomph with the right off the bat ones.

  283.  #283Sweetpea on January 4, 2011 at 7:20 pm

    Daria, I really don’t understand this: ” theyre so different the ages I feel a bit discouraged.”

    But you are allowed to be different parts of you, for sure. Just hoping you will see that stating anger in an unhealthy way doesn’t really help anyone. Not even you.

  284.  #284Katnina on January 4, 2011 at 7:27 pm

    Hi Brenda,
    I’ve been thinking a lot about your situation with Ryan, and I see some similarities to Meemee and X.
    It seemed to me that Meemee felt so attached to X bc he was the first man she was sexually intimate. What I hear from you is that you are attached to Ryan bc he was the first man you were emotionally intimate with.
    And those ties are hard to break. It’s so hard to move on when you (and I mean you as in women in general) have only had that connection with that one man.

    And yet that man is incapable of providing us with the relationship that will satisfy all of our needs. Either bc they don’t want to or bc they can’t-to me, it doesn’t really matter if it’s don’t want or can’t as either way, they aren’t.
    What do you think?

  285.  #285Lizzie on January 4, 2011 at 7:32 pm

    I could not pine for the length of time Brenda has been pining – since 2009 – wow. Feels like bankrupt to me. This is not a “freshie” scenario. Feels bankrupt – devoid of life, empty of goodness, nothing but emptiness, black death, mouldy rot in the corners, cinders of fires long gone out, a chapter worth closing. When things are bankrupt in me, I must close and move on otherwise even the good memories wither up, and I want to keep good memories. I can not judge Brenda and I must not advize Brenda. It is her decision and she is fully aware of all the ins and outs of her decisions. She has chosen to live with pain, anguish, hurt, wishful-thinking, emptiness, and all the other feelings she expresses. I can honour her for that. Interestingly, if she can feel those feelings, she can equally well feel life, joy, happiness, elation, fullness, beauty. I can feel sad because I have experienced some of these feelings myself. I can also feel hope for her. But more important, I can respect the decisions she makes about how she chooses to live her life.

  286.  #286Lucy on January 4, 2011 at 7:37 pm


    ‘Could be YEARS before something clicks. Then maybe they’ll look back and go “oh yeah, Shannon told me about that years ago”.’

    I have found that when it does finally click, the person often thinks it all came from within herself and has totally forgotten that I ever said anything. 🙂 Oh well. The good was done anyway. That happened a few times before I got used to it and stopped wanting my contribution acknowledged. Well, I probably still do want my contribution acknowledged, but I’ve pretty much accepted that it’s okay if it’s not. 🙂

    Yeah, your statement triggered the memory of those times.

  287.  #287Daria on January 4, 2011 at 7:43 pm

    I am scared to get married… I want to date and star and be super siren until gwhab comes back to me.

    Or someone cooler.

    That wd work.

    But I feel scared.

  288.  #288Daria on January 4, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    Sweetpea – to me my anger was stated in a healthy way and I feel good having said it. It Did help me get clearer on the boundary… It had to do w lying and inauthenticity.

    Out of curiosity… Which part seemed unhealthy to you?

  289.  #289Simply Shannon on January 4, 2011 at 7:48 pm

    Lizzie, I pined for an old boyfriend of mine for YEARS. We dated in high school. He was my first true love. (He dumped me for another woman.) We dated again briefly in college. (He dumped me for another woman again.) We actually dated again briefly right after my separation. And he broke up with me again….wait for it… for another woman who he just married.

    He’s unfriended and friended me on Facebook about 4 times now. He’s currently my friend on Facebook. 🙂 I’m 37. That’s 20 years of pining. And this dude is still sometimes on my horse.

    Yeah, I’ve got pining down. To a science.

  290.  #290Lizzie on January 4, 2011 at 7:48 pm

    Brenda if you are reading the direction of this thread, it may have triggered hurt. Please recognize, in my comments, it is a window on processing. I have lived a period of time in pain and it was my daughter who screamed at me one day, that I liked to make people feel sorry for me. That was an OMG moment. It is in your story, as much as I don’t pine for an individual; I pined for something else; it was the wake-up call for me. I can so easily see the yin yang – the pain/joy relationship. I finally chose a different path.

  291.  #291Daria on January 4, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    Lucy – that thing about them nor acknowledging seems like a pattern or trigger to heal… Personally I’ve experienced both being appreciated and not. Not didn’t feel good. Sometimes it did feel good as in I wasn’t triggered tho.

  292.  #292Lizzie on January 4, 2011 at 7:50 pm

    SS – do you recal in the summer, the sirens did a whole thing on what we were looking for in a man?

  293.  #293Daria on January 4, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    Knocksoftly – actually it Is like an alcoholic. That’s one of my off blog friend’s addictions… Alcohol.

    What stopped me from relieving anxiousness unhealthily was…

    Well first was the seemingly equally unhealthy belief that if I just held On to the anxiety then… He will come back to me. I was so desperate for him that this weirdly worked.

  294.  #294Lucy on January 4, 2011 at 7:55 pm

    “I want to date and star and be super siren until gwhab comes back to me.

    Or someone cooler.

    That wd work.”

    🙂 This made me smile. 🙂

  295.  #295Simply Shannon on January 4, 2011 at 7:56 pm

    Lizzie, I don’t recall. (I have the memory of a gnat. No joke.) Can you be more specific? Maybe some other sirens remember?

  296.  #296Sweetpea on January 4, 2011 at 8:00 pm


    The I hate you, go away seemed unhealthy to me. Perhaps not unhealthy in a psychological sense, but unhealthy as in not something I believe Rori would encourage as a non-blaming, feminine way to express your feelings.

    Angry, ok? Hurt, certainly? Feeling betrayed. Ok. Not blaming. But I hate you, go away seems hurtful to me and to no end. You hurt me, so I’ll hurt you back.

    Again, maybe partially this is my trigger, because I know after I went on my rampages, I felt like a spoiled little brat kicking her feet and throwing a fit because she didn’t get her way. That particular combination of words reminded me of the same. Coming from a 3 or 4 year old, maybe understandable as they don’t have the vocabulary or the skills to express how they’re feeling any better. Coming from a Siren…(shrug)

  297.  #297Simply Shannon on January 4, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    Knocksoftly, I was married to an alcoholic. They do think just before that drink that this is going to lead to destruction. And they do it anyway.

    Heck, *I* used to drink myself into oblivion a fair amount. I KNEW what I was doing. I KNEW before I took that first drink that I was going to get drunk. And I did it anyway. It has only been fairly recently that I’ve cut way back and started putting boundaries around my own drinking. I have a 2-3 drink limit depending on the beverage. And I don’t drink liquor anymore, except margaritas (even then, only one allowed).

  298.  #298Lucy on January 4, 2011 at 8:03 pm

    Shannon, I feel curious about which man on your fb friends list is pine guy. 😀

  299.  #299Lizzie on January 4, 2011 at 8:08 pm

    SS – Pining –
    Well, the lesson I really “got it” this summer – who knows what all the stuff was, but I hurt for 2 men – golf guy who had a heart attack and family guy. I really thought both were “the one” and definately keepers! But there was a hitch with both of them – they were only “almost”. Somehow I got it into my head that each one was preparing me for the next one. I have no idea how that happened, but it was definately here.

    I had said what I was looking for was to:
    – feel loved by a man
    – feel cherished
    – to be lusted after, desired, and truly wanted

    That was it!
    I didn’t really know that there is a road to get there and every step along the path is a step to getting what I deeply want and need. What I also learned is that I had to “create space” for the right man to step into.

    So, along with the others that I rejected on date #1, I came to realize that golf guy who had a heart attack, lusted and desired me, but that was temporary. What I learned is that it felt really amazing! And that it was VERY POSSIBLE – but he was not the total package – he would not and could not cherish me. He actually wasn’t even interested in getting to know me – the me deep inside. What I took from that is that it is possible.

    Then Family Guy came along – he isn’t even completly written off yet but he is seriously parked because the new guy has seriously stepped up in a very wonderful way. Family guy was so close it was scary. But again, he didn’t have time to get ot know me – he wasn’t “available” to step into the space I created.

    As soon as I let these two go, the right guy has shown up. He adores me, he is growing into cherishing me! He truly wants me. He sent me an email this morning saying he adores me and I am a priority. He asks me about who I am, he is genuinely interested in me and I him. It is so easy I can not believe it. He is as passionate as I am. He calls me every day and we talk for an hour. I see him every 3 days or so – he has space for me and he is stepping so beautifully into the space I have created for him. Who knows if it will last – or if he is “the one” but if he isn’t, all I can think of is WOW! whoever is next is going to be even more amazing!

    In the end, I am getting exactly what I truly and deeply want, I am feeling loved, honoured, cherished, desired. And it is awesome. All the others prepared me for him – and I am completely relaxed and leaned back.

    I hope that helps you a little bit in letting go of pining. Oh and a great vibrator helps.

  300.  #300Cheryl on January 4, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    Thanks Sirens for your comments re: “Meet Me” on POF. I think I’ll stick to my traditional “respond to emails only”

  301.  #301Simply Shannon on January 4, 2011 at 8:20 pm

    Lizzie, I love your story! It feels so hopeful!

    Yes, I’m now in a good place that I don’t pine for someone like I once did. I think that’s why we’re all so affected by Brenda’s story. We’ve all been there. That stuck place. Gosh. The grooves I must have worn in the soil there.

    Maybe that’s what gets me about Brenda’s story. The pull, the appeal, the falling back in. It could be me again. It could be me next time. Where I’m the one in the stuck place and everyone is shouting at me to come out, throwing me line after line but I can’t find my way.

    Shivers. I haven’t forgotten that place.

  302.  #302Lizzie on January 4, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    These are the things I think made a difference:
    Circle Dating – see as many men as possible (I saw about 20 over this summer and rejected all but 2)
    Circle Dating – do all the things I love doing by myself – I do that anyway
    Pay attention to all the men around me – I did this more than I ever did naturally, still do, and continue to grow in my appreciation of men generally as a result
    Recognize leaning forward and leaning back – this has been the hardest lesson and by far the most valuable; I am loving discovering my feminine energy
    Physical fitness – I have and always will be fit and active – if I don’t burn (cardio) every 2 days, I get lethargic and fussy. I truly believe fitness is key to managing stress, depression, and overall well being
    Heathy eating – I cheat lots, and mostly keep heart-health aware and manage it – but that is because I have blood sugar problems and freaking hot flashes to knock your socks off!
    Reconnecting with compassionate communications – LOVE IT!
    Dated everyone, but didn’t persue those that didn’t give me the good vibe. Two dates the most – keep in mind my dates are lunch, dinner, golf – lots of discovery time.
    Got frustrated with every web site – got on, cancelled off, ranted and raved about how awful this stinking situation is…
    Connected here – a miracle – thank you!!!

    Everything contributed two cents and it seems to work.

  303.  #303Soul Sista on January 4, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    SS ~ i feel you…i starting feeling a little scared about what if the next guy has almost the whole package and i get pulled in again…because i’ve been feeling sooooo good and free last few days…

    and i just blocked a guy on POF because he was getting wayyyy tooo like “you should marry me. i’m better than all the rest.” creeped me out.

    i don’t want to think about it…i’m starting to feel sad and starting to feel sad about ending things with music guy. i feel like i did it so wrong…but i was in so much pain.


  304.  #304Becky on January 4, 2011 at 8:24 pm


    I’m feeling sad tonight. I went on a coffee date with a guy who asked me out while I was standing in line at a movie. He doesn’t have a car, doesn’t have any intentions of anything serious, and he’s five years younger than I am. I couldn’t help but feel sorry for myself wondering why I couldn’t just find Mr. Dream-Come-True. I feel so overwhelmed thinking about all of the odds stacked up against me, but I know that pity parties are no fun. I just don’t know how to close down the pity party for the night.

  305.  #305Soul Sista on January 4, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    …i just answered my own question…it’s been too soon…i’m not perfect and this is my chance to focus on myself after him not stepping up for a YEAR.

    just because i reached the end of my rope being new at really honoring my feelings does not mean i am now doomed LOL. it’s only been a few days…take it easy…breathe…stay present.

  306.  #306Lizzie on January 4, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    yup – doing all that stuff and how we support each other here, contributed to creating space for my good guy to show up and step into that space. A little bit of everything helps create space for a good guy to show up.

    Now here is an interesting bittie – my new good guy, was on POF when I went on early this summer. I passed over him and took no notice. The day I went in to yet again take myself down, I sent him a little note. A kinda “oh well, Rori says if there is a smidgen of interest, go for it”, way of thinking. So I did. It happened to be the day he was going in to take himself down because he was really unhappy with the women he had been meeting. I used her “I am intrigued” line. LOL!!!

  307.  #307Sweetpea on January 4, 2011 at 8:44 pm


    Good to see you back and to hear you’re doing so well!

    Simply Shannon,

    Beautifully put. I had the same problem with the guy who first (finally) stole my heart, thus my compassion for Brenda. I just COULD NOT let him go. I still think about him often, but not quite the pull there. I can’t really say what I would do if he showed up on my doorstep. Still.


    Sorry you’re feeling sad. I’ve felt that way myself before, but I just keep CDing. I’m chatting with a Nurse Practitioner now. Never in my life did I think I’d date a guy the world considers successful. 🙂 But they’re out there and the quality of men gets better with every date. Hope that helps.

  308.  #308Daria on January 4, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    But mostly it was Babysteps too from then on.

    It just shifted I guess almost imperceptibly

    I don’t remember exactly when I stopped being addicted to alcohol…
    Or marijuana either…
    But marijuana was recently this year…
    And there was a major shift sonetime back too

  309.  #309Daria on January 4, 2011 at 8:47 pm

    Sweetpea – I hate you … I feel unsure about it..,
    Right now I’m using it because I felt what I thought was hate in that moment

    Go away is basically what I wanted… As in I don’t want to see this, have this in my life…

    It may seem harsh , it was honest tho and I feel glad I wrote what I wrote…
    Am open to shifts about go away and I hate u… I felt a lil concerned about those too

  310.  #310Daria on January 4, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    I did not say them to hurt anyone. I said them because I meant them in the moment. To me that is feminine.

    I now feel a lil sad. Do I want Brenda to go away? Well non and yes.

    Yes if this behavior continues I do want her to go away because it feels bad to me.

    No because I like Brenda too.

    Do I hate Brenda? I did right then…

    Now I feel mistrustful and confused mainly

  311.  #311Simply Shannon on January 4, 2011 at 8:59 pm

    Hmmm… when Daria is just writing those words again (“I hate you” and “Go away”) I’m feeling something. Fear? Something is there. Not sure what. I didn’t hear it the first time she said it. Hmmm…

    When I first heard those words my brain didn’t even believe Daria. I know/believe she really means I love you and I cannot stand that you are hurting this much. I can’t bear to watch it so please stop.

    I didn’t even hear the intent that others heard. I know Daria’s heart is golden. I don’t believe she hates anyone.

    But this time hearing it, it’s pinging against me. For some other reason.

    I want to ponder this a bit tomorrow. For now, I feel sleepy. Nighty night.

  312.  #312Daria on January 4, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    My hate-love relationship to I hate you…

    When I was young I judgmentally thought it was awful that people said I hate u to their parents… I would never say something like that (the thought that I’d be beaten had something to do with it)

    Then once a man said it to me in an intense situation… And I felt triggered

    Actually he had a gun pointed at me…

    I remember thinking it must be true! Someone wouldn’t say they feel something if it wasn’t true (and permanent – I didn’t understand feelings changing then)

    Then he said I love you

    I was in my head huh? Now u love me?

    Very confusing.

    The first time I used it was to my best friend in an angry text where I was very angry at her. She made a big deal out of it. That’s how I had felt. At the time.

    Then I said it again a few times on the blog… It feels liberating somewhat.

    I’m enjoying my liberty to say I hate u.

    I dont know that I’ll always say it… But for now.. I’m experimenting.

  313.  #313Daria on January 4, 2011 at 9:11 pm

    It’s ok for me to feel hate in the moment! And it’s ok for me to say so. I still am awesome and have a golden heart and u know why?

    Because I the magnificent Daria said so.

    And I am bigger than the whole world and then some.

    I can heal the world or destroy it. At my choosing.

    And there is no one left to judge me. I judge not myself.


  314.  #314Daria on January 4, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    And I feel alone and unheard and I want to feel loved. I love you Daria. U did a great job of expressing yourself. You are very brave.

    I know it was hard for u to express a boundary of go away to someone u care about. But u did it. You put yourself first and you said no. And now the healing has begun on a strong foot.

    I admire u- brave warrior .

  315.  #315Daria on January 4, 2011 at 9:15 pm

    I gotta say go away to my girl when she’s drunk!

    Just like I did w getright man.

    This may mean I don’t spend the night as often at her house… Or spend an extra 20 bucks to get a cab when she’s drunk.

    Moneys not real so that helps.

  316.  #316Sweetpea on January 4, 2011 at 9:17 pm

    SS (and Daria),

    Shannon, this is directed more to your comment, but Daria, I don’t want you to feel like I’m talking about you. I feel better including you in this.

    I didn’t believe I hate you when I heard it either. I understand feeling angry, betrayed and frustrated. However, I put myself in Brenda’s shoes and it felt much more stinging from that perspective. And I think it’s interesting that I notice Brenda hasn’t posted one comment the last 6 hours, so I think my feeling must not be far off. And I feel really sad.

    I’ve been frustrated with Brenda about this. I know that the best thing for her is to let this go and just take care of her. But I find compassion for her because I know that there was a guy for me that I had the hardest time getting over. And I know that what I needed more than anything else at the time was comfort, support and compassion. But my friends at the time got tired of hearing it and they didn’t know what to tell me. They couldn’t see why I couldn’t just move on so they started not talking to me as much. I nearly drove myself mad trying to sort it out by myself.

    I feel scared for Brenda that she’s now left to deal with this on her own when she was getting such great feedback from everyone and seemed to be finally getting past this.

    This is a safe, warm, loving, supportive place. I believe she needs that right now.

  317.  #317Lucy on January 4, 2011 at 9:21 pm

    Daria, I feel interested in your explorations around “I hate you.”

    Just sharing, don’t know if any of this means anything… I said “I hate you” to my parents lots of times when I was a child… even wrote it across the back of my bedroom door in big letters one time, “I hate you, Dad” (That feels sad to remember)….

    even bought my mom a plaque for Mother’s Day that said, “Sometimes I hate you, but always I love you.” I was around 15 probably then. It feels weird to me now that someone would make a plaque that says that, but obviously it resonated with me at the time.

    For me, “I hate you” means “I am so angry with you that I can hardly bear it — in fact, maybe I CAN’T bear it.”

    I no longer say “I hate you” to my parents or anyone else, bc it feels bad to me now to say it — but I admit that at times the words come to my mind unbidden. When they do, I acknowledge the feeling of “I am so angry with you that I can hardly bear it — in fact, maybe I CAN’T bear it.”

  318.  #318Lucy on January 4, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    Daria, you are making some good points about the whole enabling thing…. enabling doesn’t help an addict….

  319.  #319Sweetpea on January 4, 2011 at 9:30 pm


    You seem to be missing the point that feeling hate toward someone and using feeling messages is much different that saying “I hate you.” Which is exactly the point I’ve been trying to make. You may feel hatred toward the lack of healing that you see in Brenda. You may feel hatred toward her because you feel you were lied to and deceived. However, that is not what you said. If you want to keep telling yourself that you have a right to feel what you feel and say what you want, you are absolutely correct. I’m simply asking you to consider the other person’s feelings in your tirade. I hate you is so much more hurtful, mean and discompassionate to my ears (or eyes as the case may be) than “I’m so angry I feel hatred.” or any of the thousands of other things that could have been said to convey your displeasure at feeling betrayed, lied to and angry.

    I’m taking my boy hat off now and I won’t speak of it again.

  320.  #320Lucy on January 4, 2011 at 9:33 pm

    What is it when you initiate contact with a guy on pof who favorited you, but you know you wouldn’t want to date him and only wrote to him bc something on his profile was interesting and you felt like saying so?

  321.  #321LonePlum on January 4, 2011 at 9:47 pm

    Katnina 290

    I see a big difference between Meemee and Brenda
    (Brenda I am speaking differences here not preferences or justifying either over the other. Both of you are same as all of us; something got stuck and from there we do our best)

    Ryan told Brenda he does not want to see her and he asked her clearly to let him be in peace.
    He told her he does not love her. Things are clear. There is no relationship.
    Brenda is forcing him to talk to her. Ryan does not want to “use” Brenda, he wants to stay away from her.

    X, on the total opposite, went to Meemee’s house and gave her a present typical among fiancés. He bribes her to believe he will be nice with her and he has sex with her.
    X loggs on internet to sweet talk to her into sex. He visits her in her office room etc…
    Meemee stays away from X, it is X who forces his presence onto her.

    Brenda could never stop texting and I think calling too.
    She finally succeeded in not calling, not so long ago.
    Yet she thinks if she stops texting a couple of weeks, she deserves a reward which is Ryan will call her and love her.
    She does not understand she is not texting him because he does not want a relationship with her.

    On the opposite side, Memee stopped calling and texting X the same first day she read sirens advices here.
    Meemmee really never contacts X at all.
    She understands why and she is willing to forget him.
    X is the one who has been pursuing Meemee , trying to keep his game partner.
    She can’t forget him yet because he is always inside her space, he says he loves her, and he has been to her house to make love to her.

    Meemee was feeling a lot better as soon as she stopped seeing X, during her trip, and when X is away from the office.
    She did the feel good favourite things exercise
    She is willing to turn this page.
    It is when X visits her office room and her house that she is overwhelmed and needs to do it all over again.
    So would I be

    Ryan does not pursue Brenda at all, he does not visit her.
    Ryan does not want to abuse Brenda
    She texted she wanted to apologize, so he phoned her
    They chatted a very long time and apologized to each other.
    It was a kind gesture on Ryan’s behalf.
    He probably thought she was closing her book about him.
    But she thought “now that I said I am sorry for pushing all his boundaries, he owes me to love me, we are back together”
    All he did was to answer her request for a chat, but she thought it meant they would phone or text like if they were close friends again.

    I don’t know, because I am not there with them, but according to Brenda’s writings here, Ryan and his family are acting as gentle as they can with Brenda
    They seem to understand she’s got that problem and they handle her as gently as possible and yet protecting Ryan from her stalking.

    Ryan asked her to let him be, yet she phoned his parents’ house to know why he did not answer her text!!!!!!!!! She traspasses all boundaries.
    They did not get mad at her, they charitably told Ryan to get in touch with her.
    Which he did again.
    It was a friendly gesture.
    He did not have to phone her, he owes her nothing.
    It is a sign a kindness.
    She wanted it to be a sign that he owed her to call her and to start again the close link.
    She feels he owes her to love her.

    Meemee does not contact X at all.
    Brenda texted Ryan several texts because he did not call her for NYE.
    There was no reason for him to call, there is no relationship.
    Ryan worried about her texts and phoned to see if she was all right.
    It is a sign if kindness.
    He can’t help it if she is not his one.
    He does not have to help her about it.
    Well, he thought it would help her if he’d phone to ask what’s going on.

    She seems to think that when he phones or texts, love is on, she does not respect the fact he is not her lover, not even a close friend.
    They never speak and never meet.

    He sounds like a man who is really sorry for Brenda and who does not know how to help her.
    As soon as he contacts her to help her, she grabs his neck, she wants him to give him what he does not feel for her.
    Over and over.
    So he vanishes, it is safer for both of them.

    Besides she never speaks of her life, or anything happy when he phones.
    She always speaks of him and their “relationship” (according to Brenda’s own words on here)
    It is like if Brenda did not know Rory at all.
    She is the one who does not want to change, she is toxic to herself and deep inside she already knows that.
    May be this stage with Ryan now will make her take herself by the hand and lovingly show herself the road to her own life.

    Meemee changed her attitude the first day she wrote on this web page.
    She stopped texting him the same day.
    She wants X to either be a real lover or to stop speaking to her.
    It is X who wants to keep her as his play mate.
    It is X who does not want things to change.
    It is X who contacts Meemee and it is not on her begging.
    He is toxic to Meemee.

    Meemee did not sacrify her job and studies to think of X or any man.
    X was a part of her private life, inside her compartmentalised life.
    She did not allow her feelings for X to interfere in the accomplishment of her material and intellectual life.
    (I hope she is still holding on)


  322.  #322Daria on January 4, 2011 at 10:02 pm

    Sweetpea – I hear what you are saying…

    Perhaps I feel so angry I feel hatred for u is easier for u to hear…

    To me I hate u worked as well to express myself.

    I don’t see it as less feminine.

    I also don’t intend to consider other peoples feelings when I’m expressing mine… Because that would be guessing and it would be their business. And against what I understand of what to practice which is how to best express myself.

    To me hate is a feeling … And I hate u is similar to I feel hate

    This seems to trigger u… I may change to I feel hate…

    I am still not feeling understood… Truthfully I was in feeling mode and I feel good that I expressed myself truthfully

  323.  #323Daria on January 4, 2011 at 10:08 pm

    Also I feel … With slight guilt… A lil surprised and relieved that Vrenda hasn’t posted. I said go away and lie to urself somewhere else… Meaning i don’t want this in my reality…

    And it has indeed gone away!


    Now I feel afraid of being judged but I am Determined to focus on Daria. This means my boundaries being stated are holding stron in the energyverse.

    I Don’t want to see stuff that feels bad. That’s right.

    I Don’t want to read Brenda comments if it makes me feel bad.

    That was my boundary and while I would miss Brenda if she no longer posted Anything… I refuse Crumbs of bullshit that makes me feel bad.

    And thus is how it works for me with men too.

  324.  #324Sweetpea on January 4, 2011 at 10:12 pm


    I believe if you read back over what Brenda said, she texted Ryan on New Year’s Eve because he had called her and asked her to call back. Then she never heard from him again. I feel triggered when guys do that stuff too. He called her, she hadn’t contacted him. And I believe it bothers her because it is some of the game playing that he’s done with her all along.

    I don’t want to defend this because I believe it’s best for her to let him go, but I find myself wincing at your analysis. I don’t believe Brenda needs any help in blaming herself for Ryan going away. I think she does plenty of that already. She’s trying to understand this and I know from experience that it’s difficult. Bottom line in my mind, the only thing Brenda has done wrong is not be able to let go of a man who toyed with her emotions and gave her every reason to believe he was going to ask him to marry her. He spoke to her of marriage, he told her that the most important moment in a woman’s life is when a man proposes to her and then he took one of her rings. I’m hard pressed to believe that I wouldn’t have been thinking a man was going to propose to me as well.

    All it took for me to know my ex-fiance was going to propose to me was for him to ask me my ring size. I don’t think it was unreasonable at all for her to believe he would propose under the circumstances.

    In my opinion, Ryan was just as cruel to Brenda and gave her just as much reason to believe he was as invested in the relationship as X did Meemee. Trouble is, Meemee already knew X was bad news, he’d been treating her poorly already and she was already skeptical. Ryan caught Brenda completely off guard. He brought back the ring, waited around for two hours and then left. The next day, when she was sure she’d get a proposal, he came over and told her he doesn’t love her and they are just friends.

    I don’t even know really, why I’m recounting all of that except I knowing this, I can understand why she’s had such a hard time letting go. I can’t excuse it. I know it’s not good for her, but it’s her path and she’ll get over him when she’s ready to get over him. Sometimes it’s not so easy as knowing what is the right thing to do and then doing it.

  325.  #325Daria on January 4, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    Lucy – that q feels really weird to read.

    I would be dating men that seem to like me and opening up to them.

    I feel scared that if not I will lose like a decade only going for guys who I instantly like on a first date based on past patterns… And guys like that don’t necessarily show up a lot.

    I practice opening up More… So that i can begin to bond with
    more men

    The thrills cone from u’s not from them… We have to learn to turn the thrills on

  326.  #326Sweetpea on January 4, 2011 at 10:16 pm


    I also feel angry at hearing get off my blog. This isn’t your blog, it’s Rori’s. That’s my truth.

  327.  #327Daria on January 4, 2011 at 10:24 pm

    Sweetpea – from what I understood, Brenda texted Ryan 3 times… Then he called then said He would call back but didn’t.

    I agree that Brenda is phone/text invading Ryan.

    Loneplum calls it stalking.. I don’t think it’s stalking until it’s looking thru the windows… Either way… It’s Not about Ryan. He’s just an outlet for Brendas addiction.

  328.  #328Janie on January 4, 2011 at 10:38 pm

    It amazes me how much Brenda’s relationship/non-relationship stuff triggers so many sirens here.

    I guess we can all feel the icky feelings in many different ways associated with it.

    From the enabling, protecting, blaming, hugging, repeated help trying to be given.

    Hopefully we can all grow in a good way from all the triggers here.

    Mega, mega triggers triggers. Yuck, yuck. yuck

    Once triggered and worked through with mega growth change it all to love, love, love!!!

  329.  #329Sweetpea on January 4, 2011 at 10:38 pm


    I think everyone, even Brenda herself agrees that she is phone/text invading Ryan. Everyone on here agrees and I think Brenda is beginning to see that it’s time for Brenda to take care of Brenda and let this go. Yes. I believe it’s an addiction. I believe it’s an addiction to the chemicals she felt when he was being loving. She hasn’t had a fix in a long time and one would think that it would have subsided by now, but it hasn’t. Maybe Brenda is punishing herself now because Ryan’s not around to punish her. All I do know is that I would feel so happy for her if she would let it go. And I believe that she’s finally at a place to be able to do that. I believe that there were some good points made on here about mental illness not being an excuse to be an a**hole and such that were helping her to get things into perspective.

    I believe Brenda’s biggest obstacle in all of this is that she’s making excuses for his behavior. It’s the demons, it’s her fault for overfunctioning and it’s keeping her from seeing Ryan as Ryan actually is. I’m with the girls here, I believe Ryan is using his illness as an excuse and Brenda is letting him. I don’t believe he is without fault in this, and Loneplum, I guess that is why I felt compelled to respond to your comment.

    I’m not trying to defend Brenda in this. I’m just saying that I understand what it’s like to completely click with a guy and think you’ve found then one, then push him away out of fear and blame yourself. It makes it so much harder to walk away. It took me two years to walk away from my guy. We talked about getting married, having six kids, all kinds of stuff. Then I got scared and freaked and pushed him away. I saw him off and on for about a year after then less frequently for a year after that. I still believe he loves me and it was hard for me to accept that it doesn’t matter. My pushing him away doesn’t matter and the fact that he loves me doesn’t matter. It didn’t work. That’s what I just finally had to accept. For whatever reason, his fault, my fault, my love, his love, the fact of the matter is, it just didn’t work and none of that other stuff matters.

    So I get it. I still love him and I still think of him and I still wonder about what could have been. Thankfully for me, I don’t have his number and he lives halfway across the country from me now. I could still get his number if I wanted it, but I’ve decided I’m better off to leave it alone. No more “ifs.”

    Love what you said about stalking though Daria. LOL! And I could not agree with you more – it’s NOT about Ryan. I think (and hope and pray) that Brenda is finally starting to see that too.

    It feels really weird talking about her like this, but it’s nothing I wouldn’t write directly to her, so…here we go.

  330.  #330LonePlum on January 4, 2011 at 10:38 pm

    Daria 334

    yes, thank you “phone/text invading” is much better said

    The receiver has the option to delete the texts or to cancel the calls, it is not such a big deal.

    It is a big deal when the receiver is in love and trying to forget the sender.
    Otherwise it is not that bad for the receiver.

    It is bad for the sender trapped in it.


  331.  #331Janie on January 4, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    Loving Brenda is helpful. Protecting maybe not so helpful. We all deserve love. We all deserve our guy.

  332.  #332Sweetpea on January 4, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    Oh I don’t know Janie. She’s pretty vulnerable and hurting right now. I would have loved to have a soft landing spot like this when I was trying to work through it. I think there needs to be someone to protect the Sirens who are feeling vulnerable and experience rejection at a time when they’re already feeling ultimately rejected.

    What I would truly love is for there to be only feeling messages on here which is what Rori’s vision was when she started this. I, however, have been known to jump off the feeling boat and speak my peace so I’m not judging. Simply hoping that we all learn to communicate even bad feelings in a constructive manner. Especially me.

  333.  #333Daria on January 4, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    Sweetpea that feels bad to rea

    I feel like im villified and made into a bully. I dont wantt thst. I feel frustratrd at yhid pattern of mine if falling into the youre thr designated bully.

    I ferl scared . I ferl uh unseen.

    I ferl panicked when people cast me as the bad guy.

    I refuse this.

    D ariayou are sweet and great it was lobing of you to be honestwith brenda.

    SheCan now groundnd hherself in a true feeling response to her behaviour.

    EvenIf thou

  334.  #334Sweetpea on January 4, 2011 at 10:53 pm

    And Daria, I appreciate the opportunity and your openness to my expressing bad feelings on here. I half expected a f**k you get off my blog myself. It was great practice for me to get into that feminine energy and still express my feelings.

    And I feel pretty safe and good having been able to stay in that energy and not get the “off with her head.” Thanks.

  335.  #335Daria on January 4, 2011 at 10:54 pm

    Even if your words did not sound loving… Your intent to escorted yourself truthfully cones through and you were loving to yourself by saying no to what hurt you. I admire that.

    You did not allow yourself to go into others business but said what was true for you in ferlings in the moment.

    Great job. Now though others may feel threatened, you have grown and so will everyone.

  336.  #336Daria on January 4, 2011 at 10:58 pm

    Sweetpea – 🙂

    I felt an energy that felt like hesitation and vulnerability

    Yay for embracing all parts of us.

    Even parts that want Other parts to go away – ok they don’t want that

    Just like they don’t want a man to go away… They want the icky behavior to go away hmm

  337.  #337Sweetpea on January 4, 2011 at 10:59 pm


    I’m not trying to villify you. I believe you have a kind, compassionate heart. I believe you want the best for both of us. I also believe that your belief that Brenda is harming herself so she can get attention is a judgment and one that you’re not qualified to make. I hate putting it that way but I can’t come up with a good feeling message to say it and still make my point.

    I personally believe Brenda is on here for help. And even if she were to be hurting herself for attention, she still deserves to be heard. I know I didn’t stay hung up on Jersey because I wanted attention. I didn’t keep going back to him because I wanted to hurt myself. I went back to him because I loved him. And I feel compassion toward Brenda because I believe she is in the same place. I believe there are other things at play there that need healed and maybe she is hurting herself for some deep-seated psychological reason or another. But I don’t believe that it’s for attention. I believe she really just can’t help herself.

  338.  #338Sweetpea on January 4, 2011 at 11:00 pm

    But I don’t believe there’s a single soul on here, including you, Daria who doesn’t want to see her healed from this.

  339.  #339Sweetpea on January 4, 2011 at 11:04 pm

    And for the record, Daria, you’re not the only one I’ve seen on here that lets the bad feelings fly. I don’t like seeing it from anyone. I like to feel safe here. Sometimes it’s hard to when I see people getting triggered and spewing their crap all over someone else when someone else really isn’t the problem.

    I don’t believe there is a single person on here who’s not trying to heal themselves. I want to see that healing being supported. I know that’s probably a pipe dream because we’re all human and sometimes our triggers are bigger than our compassion or our feelings of goodwill. But it doesn’t mean I can’t want it.

  340.  #340Sweetpea on January 4, 2011 at 11:05 pm

    That being said, I’m feeling tired. Sweet dreams, Sirens.

  341.  #341Sweetpea on January 4, 2011 at 11:08 pm

    Ohh, oh, oh! Just came across this on POF. Gotta post it.

    Top 10 Tips For Finding True Love This Year

    By Rori Raye, Author of best-selling eBook Have The Relationship You Want and free newsletter.

    This year, attract the man who will love you just as you are and create the secure, connected relationship you’ve always wanted. Here’s how…
    Open your heart and be surprised –

    You’re on Plenty Of Fish, so you must be open to love, right? But truly being open means that even though you’re looking for that special One, you’re receptive to love from wherever it comes. Your Mr. Right might show up in a way you never expected and might look different from what you’ve imagined. The only way to find out is to accept dates from lots of different men.
    Don’t become exclusive until you’re committed –

    You’ve been seeing a great guy, and you’re spending a lot of time together. You should stop accepting dates from other men, right? Not at all. Unless he has asked you for a commitment, keep your options open. It’s not about playing games – it’s about maintaining your sense of self instead of making any one man the center of your universe. You also prevent yourself from having that “needy” vibe, and you make him feel like commitment is his idea.
    Soften your body language –

    Next time you’re out on a date, take a moment and notice what your body is doing. Chances are, your nerves are showing up in the form of tense shoulders and clasped hands. We women become so overly conscious of ourselves that we fail to display the femininity that men find so alluring. Instead, relax your hands, drop your shoulders, and actually lean back in his presence. Then watch as he fills the space by melting forward – and inching ever so closer to your heart.
    Don’t think too far ahead –

    What were you thinking on your last date? If you’re like most women, at least some of the time you were watching these thoughts run through your head: Does he like me? Will he make a good husband? Is he going to ask me out again? Focusing on the future and “what ifs” not only keeps you from enjoying the present moment and discovering who this man is, but staying stuck in your head keeps you from connecting with him where it truly counts – his heart.
    Share your feelings without making him responsible –

    He’s late (again), he brings up his ex, he forgets to call. These are scenarios you’re bound to run into at one time or another – even after you’re married. Most women think bringing these up will only push a man away, but the key is to draw him closer by expressing your feelings in a clear, non-blaming way that invites him to be part of the solution: “I really feel uncomfortable hearing about other women, and I don’t want to create any weirdness between the two of us. What do you think?”
    Stop pretending you’re something you’re not –

    How often have you hidden the real you when you’re with a guy? You might feel that if you reveal the quirky things about you, you’ll scare him away…or that if you disagree with him, you’ll rock the boat. But nothing can be further from the truth. This isn’t about spilling your guts on a first date, it’s about letting go of the need to be perfect and letting love in. So stop censoring yourself…and start allowing the man who will love you for who you are make his way into your life – for good.
    Switch the channel to “receive” –

    You might think that in order to show a man you’re a great catch, you need to make him dinner, do things for him, or push the relationship along. But the truth is that men fall in love by how much they give to you – not the other way around. A good man will want to please you, make you happy, and do nice things for you. Let him!
    Always put yourself first –

    It’s natural for women to put others first; but if you want to inspire romance in a man, putting his needs before yours is entirely counterproductive. While it’s true that every relationship is give and take, you still need to take care of yourself first. When a man sees that you treat yourself with kindness and respect, he’ll see a woman who has a high sense of worth and a healthy self-esteem – both of which are very attractive and motivate him to keep you happy.
    Don’t write him off…yet –

    Is he too short, too heavy, too young, too serious, not serious enough? There are scores of women who couldn’t stand their husbands at first and now can’t imagine their lives without them. Whenever a man shows up in your life – regardless of how long – treat it as an opportunity. Unless you are really turned off by him, give him at least three dates. He might not be your Mr. Right, but he will get you closer to him by helping you discover more about you.
    Remember, you can’t say the wrong thing to the right man –

    As long as you speak from your heart, the man who is going to love you will not be scared away – he will work with you through conflict, and this will bring you closer together. Of course, you need to make him feel safe enough to express his own feelings, and the way you do this comes right back to where we started: by expressing your own. As you build a solid foundation of safety and mutual acceptance, love doesn’t just thrive – it flourishes.
    Changing your habits takes practice, and luckily for you, Plenty Of Fish gives you the perfect way to try out all these guidelines. So go out with lots of different guys and practice the above until they become second nature. I know that if you do, the love and romance you’ve dreamed of will become your way of life.

  342.  #342Rosa on January 4, 2011 at 11:08 pm

    Brenda @110

    I understand this feeling. This was me .
    I posted a long one for you last thread , heres another.
    I feel bad that you are crying out for help and so I am offering some techniques of thinking to use on yourself. These thoughts are straight up , they are sent with love, you may not like them, but if you want change, here it is…

    This is an addiction .
    This is a habit which is harming you .
    You are addicted to feeling bad. You are a pining addict.

    Your brain is running loops that are self destructive .
    “He left me”
    ” I dont want to live without him”
    etc etc will know what the thoughts are that trigger the emotion of loss, pain, hurt, fear etcc and the tears. The loop will be so habitual you will be able to state it clearly , in thoughts then emotions then actions- Here is a theoretical example.

    I think- I am alone
    I think – I am so lonely
    I think – I am lonely because he left me
    i think-I love him so much
    I think – He doesnt want me
    I think – My chest is a gaping hole


    I do- nothing (inertia)- stay in bed
    I do- go to refrigerator
    I do – grab phone and text
    I do – call and corner him

    1. make a list of your common thought triggers IN WRITING.

    2. every time you hear one in your head or see a pic of him in your head or you recall feeling sad etc.,.do the following.
    -lift your eyes up to the right.
    -see a BIG RED STOP SIGN,. hold your eyes up right and count to 5.

    3. Talk to yourself along these lines
    -its ok if a thought of ryan comes , its only a thought, it is a little loop in my brain and I have let it run too often so it is a cracked record. BUT I can just let it run. Its only a thought. i dont have to DO anything. I dont have to FEEL anyway particularly .
    I dont have to cry and I dont have to eat .

    4. If you have an urge to cry or wail or eat or pine or LOOP AROUND , remind yourself you are blocking your future good and happiness and do something else..i usually jump up and down or flap both hands wildly or yell EEEEEEEE . I DO SOMETHING ELSE.

    5. When I do something else I break up the loop.
    Note – this does NOT remove good memories or change love feelings. it stops the secondary negative looping and sadness which is now a habit.

    6. You cant let go because you dont want to . I suspect you get satisfaction from the loop running in your brain like a smoker or a junkie gets satisfaction when the “I must light up now” loop is satisfied even if its killing them .
    When you want to you will start to recognise a loop when it starts . You will say ” Hi thought!!!~ i love my ‘ I love Ryan” thought but I am busy painting my nails just now and thinking of flowers or recipes or ANYTHING ELSE .I dont wish to have a downhill feel bad spiral which will end in tears . I choose to smile and sing Yankee Doodle!

    further tricks

    1. Identify all your metaphors – the giant gaping hole in your chest one is highly toxic and could well lead to physical illness. It causes a marvelous negative feel bad feeling though , doesnt it?
    GET RID OF IT. And any others that are dark or dangerous.

    2. put bright pictures and metaphors in your words and in sounds you hear in your head,and in pictures you give yourself, eg , see a lovely bright pink heart in your chest radiating out sparkling light all around , as it radiates out it gets brighter and brighter until you giggle.. if a song in your head reminds you of R, say ” nice song’ i choose now to sing “jingle Bells”and DO IT !

    Ok This is all offering solutions which is not my role here but you wanted to know how other people have done it , so here it is with much love

  343.  #343Daria on January 4, 2011 at 11:16 pm

    All humans want attention… That’s cool.

    Doing something for attention is good as long as the behavior is healthy and feels good to ourselves.

    I am naturally qualified.

    Hmm my belief about Brenda may not be real.

    I know I feel shocked and angry like I’ve been set up to watch someone expose themselves without my permission

    When I read. He heartfuchked me. I forgave Him the next day.

    It sounds like – to me :

    I’m unhealthy! Look at me!

    Or like someone spitting or peeing or grabbing on me as they pass by and I’m left bewildered like… They just did that but pretended nothing happened so what do I do now?

    That’s what it seems like.

    Shock factor at work.

    I do this too… My intent as far ad i can tell is to look brave usually or to challenge someones belief systems from
    judging one way.

    To me it seems Brenda does it to receive sympathy. Which
    Is a great goal but an unhealthy way to reach it (victim hood)

    These are just my perceptions at this time and they don’t natter unless they’re helpful to someone.

    They’re just thought.

    My feelings are anger mistrust and ick.

    I don’t want to be grabbed by the butt anymore.

  344.  #344Daria on January 4, 2011 at 11:19 pm

    Sweetpea – part of being here is expressing the feelings we think are ‘ugly’

    What I said was my truth… It was in ferlings even with slightly switched words and it’s healing for me and therefore Brenda.

    I don’t see it as letting bad feelins fly. I would say it again.

    This time I might stick to I feel hate and I dont want this on my blog tho

  345.  #345Daria on January 4, 2011 at 11:21 pm

    Reposting… This is what would feel great to hear about from Lucy:

    so you must be open to love, right? But truly being open means that even though you’re looking for that special One, you’re receptive to love from wherever it comes. Your Mr. Right might show up in a way you never expected and might look different from what you’ve imagined. The only way to find out is to accept dates from lots of different men.

  346.  #346Lucy on January 4, 2011 at 11:25 pm

    “I feel triggered when guys do that stuff too. He called her, she hadn’t contacted him. And I believe it bothers her because it is some of the game playing that he’s done with her all along.” (Sweetpea)

    That’s interesting. I don’t feel triggered when guys “do that stuff.” I also don’t interpret it as “game playing.”

    It feels interesting to me when different people interpret other people’s actions differently.

  347.  #347Lucy on January 4, 2011 at 11:29 pm

    Brenda, I feel curious after reading Sweetpea’s post — Did you ever ask Ryan why he took your ring? I would feel curious about that.

  348.  #348Lucy on January 4, 2011 at 11:38 pm

    Daria – Lol, I imagine it Would feel weird to read that question … it was kinda random.

    And I found the answer to it myself — It is Expressing Myself. Enjoying. Smiling at what I see. CDing the world. Feels good.

    I don’t understand the rest of what you wrote there — “I would be dating men… ” etc.

    I mean, I Do understand it, but I don’t understand why you wrote it there.

  349.  #349Meemee on January 4, 2011 at 11:43 pm

    I was off for some days. I got a freelance project- from a university to write study materials for graduates. I had to finish it in 10 days. And they will pay me 2500 USD. So I had to completely devote my time to writing that book.
    Back here, I am realizing I have lots of things to catch up with.
    News is that I gave my one month notice to my boss. And she okayed it. That means I can quit this job by the end of this month. This makes me feel so relieved. I feel good about the fact that I will get time to do my PhD and do a lot of traveling.
    The first installment of my fellowship arrived. They wrote to me saying that I dont have spend time there. I will have to go to Argentina at the end of this year to present a paper. But I can be here in India and use the money for my field trips. 🙂

    Secondly I am moving out of my present house. I am house hunting now. I will be in a new house in two weeks. I feel excited about finding a new house, moving in and doing all the shifting and house setting. Also this will take me away from the geography of memories. Memories associated with that house and X.

    Thirdly I joined a gym. I am going there for the last 10 days. It feels good. I want to get my body back in shape. Once I had an admirable body. But with all the stress and obsessing about X, I did not take care of my body. Now I weigh 66 Kg (sigh). My instructor said I should lose 6kgs. That is a big target. But that keeps me focused. Obsessing about fitness and my body feels much better than obsessing about X.

    I am struggling to finish deadlines now. I have to finish lots of work in this one month. I feel very stressed at times.

    Also I am finding it very painful to see X in office. It hurts a lot when that deep understanding “Its over” hits me. It really does hurt immensely and deeply. At times I cry. At times I remember all the things he said to me. I feel insulted and humiliated. I get reminded of all the things I was denied. I go mad at times. I feel very uneasy when I see him in office. I feel very very weird and strange when I have to pass him in the office. Yesterday he came to my room to ask why I did not go for a seminar. Other than that there is no attempt from his side to make contact. He sent me a text on new year day wishing me a happy new year. I didn’t reply. I feel thankful to him that he is staying away. This silence is not something I am used to. So I feel uncomfortable at times. But I am sure this will help me in the process of healing. I feel low and high, up and down and many many feeling in short pockets of time. I am learning to accept those fluctuations. It is a hard thing to do. 🙁 🙁
    I changed my phone number. I am using the old number also because that was my office purpose number. So I will have to keep it till I quit this job. But after that I can avoid the possibility of X ever texting me or calling me.
    Days are busy. The feelings I am going through now are very hard to process- the feelings of insult, humiliation, shame, of being used, and rejected, of not respected in the past and of course the hormones are making things worse. I am holding on. I know this will pass. Life is too short. I gave 3 years to someone who hurt me deeply. Now I cant glory in that hurt and spend another 3 years mourning him. I feel worried that it will take more time than I think for me to completely heal. But I am telling myself everyday that healing is an ongoing process and that should not stop me from moving on in my life.
    There are moments of doubt, moments when I feel tempted to rewind the scene and analyze what went wrong. there are moments I feel like explaining things. But they don’t last. It is extremely difficult to feel those feelings and wait and watch till they fade. Today I am feeling really low. really really low.
    But I am trying to concentrate on the strong and better parts of my life.
    Hugs to all of you
    I cant stop thinking of all of you and what is happening in your lives. I think a lot about you. I missed you a lot.
    I am so happy that I have a group here who cares, supports and helps and accepts me.
    Love you all

  350.  #350Daria on January 4, 2011 at 11:51 pm

    Wow cool rosa ! Thanks!

    2. every time you hear one in your head or see a pic of him in your head or you recall feeling sad etc.,.do the following.
    -lift your eyes up to the right.
    -see a BIG RED STOP SIGN,. hold your eyes up right and count to 5.

    I did this with sexy cd – uhoh calling him sexy cd triggered me again-

    And my thought was “he doesn’t want me”

    I then flipped this to he wants me ( I did the stop sign part later )

    And then my next thought was

    Well I want to talk to him… If he wants me.. I should call him!

    And somehow this came to: I want to have sex with him too

    Abd the very vulnerable feeling message:

    I am so ready to have sex with you ! (but I need certain steps first to feel loved and emotionally safe)

    Yay to babystepping in opening up about sex!

  351.  #351Daria on January 4, 2011 at 11:55 pm

    Lucy – I write it there because it seems anti the roti raue program to contact a man because of feeling curious yet refusing to date him if he were interesting…
    And it feels … Draining/frustrating…

    I wish I was hearing about you accepting lots of dates and the tools you practiced and how you’re opening up your heart.

  352.  #352Daria on January 5, 2011 at 12:00 am

    Rosa – hey that is like riffing!

    Notice when u feel a certain way… The triggers

    Notice the associated reactions


    And find the feelings in the body and love them

  353.  #353Daria on January 5, 2011 at 12:01 am

    OMG this stop sign thing is really helping me !

    I am then able to picture stuff I Want like his energy coming to me!

  354.  #354Daria on January 5, 2011 at 12:04 am

    I think – he’s too cool for me!

    (so exciting to do this right now)

    I am too cool for him haha !

    And I get sighs as my body relaxes and gets new insights… I’m getting Freewee

  355.  #355Daria on January 5, 2011 at 12:07 am

    OMG OMG OMG this is even working on guywhohadababy thoughts.

    Lucy btw I would actually say something to a guy who’s profile I found interesting – maybe – like if he has cool art. I got confused that u wrote him and he wrote u back and asked u out and now u don’t like him.

    If that happened to me I would go out w him.

  356.  #356Lucy on January 5, 2011 at 12:08 am

    Sweetpea, thanks for posting Rori’s pof article! That’s a good one!

  357.  #357Lucy on January 5, 2011 at 12:16 am

    Daria – “Reposting… This is what would feel great to hear about from Lucy:”

    I feel confused! I don’t understand what you want to hear about from me. You want to hear about my dates? Is that what you mean?

  358.  #358Alicia on January 5, 2011 at 12:23 am

    Jean I havent read all the post but in regards to #85.., Yes, sometimes I see what you are saying about feeling like a prostitute CD’ing even if u dont have sex with them. And, really.. it just practice for them too. They get to flex their gentlemen muscles and we get to practice recieving.. and boundries. So, it’s a win-win. 🙂

    There once was a real prostitue who was a scholl teacher who wrote in article in a mag.. and the funniest line I got out of it.. Was, she thought it was easier to actually prostitute versus internet date. (Although the reason for the article was a debate about her being a school teacher and having been a pros.) I thought the line about dating jumped out to me the most.

    I told my friend who is starting to CD who was feeling bad and scared. To practice saying.. Awh Thanks. – when they compliment even if she was not interested. And, that yesss.. be like a stripper who accepts cash tips as in “don’t feel bad, these guys will be your “compliment tipper”.. It’s doesnt have to go far. For the 11 guys I did go out with there were 40 I said thanks too. And another 12 I chit chatted with. There is plenty of women on the sites.. I dont feel bad for responding in a little convo even if I’m not attracted. Some of them turn out to be funny.

  359.  #359Alicia on January 5, 2011 at 12:24 am

    *school teacher..

  360.  #360Lucy on January 5, 2011 at 12:27 am

    Daria – “I got confused that u wrote him and he wrote u back and asked u out and now u don’t like him.”

    I feel puzzled. I just wrote him, right before I posted that question here. He hadn’t written back. I don’t remember what it was, but something on his profile was a dealbreaker or some such thing, but I wrote him anyway bc I felt like commenting on the one thing that made me smile on his profile.

    Later, he did write to me, and we wrote back and forth a bit. I don’t even remember how it ended up, bc there was a flurry of activity for me tonight on there and I don’t remember what happened with which guys. (I posted a new primary picture tonight and apparently it attracted a lot of new attention.)

  361.  #361Alicia on January 5, 2011 at 12:31 am

    This thing about feeling bad really has to do with us. There is no shortage of men or women out there. So why feel bad for these guys who get to be with an awesome you.. ?? They might be feeling great… And even if it’s just a date. They will have plenty of other opportunites. To believe that we hold that much power over someone we hardly know feels strange. Yet, I do at times feel guilt. That just my issue and he get to be the trigger, healer, teacher.. So, the feeling can come up and pass. Thus he fufilled his purpose if only for one date. So, that makes me feel good. And he served his purpose, so together each helped the other move forward.. And it’s all good 🙂

  362.  #362Lucy on January 5, 2011 at 12:32 am

    I’m sorry that it feels draining/frustrating to you. I feel frustrated when I read that it feels that way to you. I feel misunderstood and unheard.

    I feel curious about how you so often feel drained and frustrated by other women.

  363.  #363Lucy on January 5, 2011 at 12:36 am

    “I wish I was hearing about you accepting lots of dates and the tools you practiced and how you’re opening up your heart.”

    You will hear all of that when you hear what I am saying and not what I am not saying. 🙂

    I do feel perplexed that you don’t hear it.

  364.  #364Alicia on January 5, 2011 at 12:36 am

    Daria –

    What is this Stop sign thing and picturing things? I want to know.. 😉

    Did I miss it in the article?

  365.  #365Lucy on January 5, 2011 at 12:37 am

    Hmmm. I realized I feel drained by the continual mis-hearing.

  366.  #366Lucy on January 5, 2011 at 12:37 am

    and un-hearing.

  367.  #367Daria on January 5, 2011 at 12:40 am

    – i alicia – its what Rosa said a few posts up

  368.  #368Alicia on January 5, 2011 at 12:44 am

    Daria.. I saw it in your other post.. Got it.

    Let me get this strait. You thought of a guy you liked and felt not great.. Then you went for the mental stop sign and ended up feeling like you wanted to call him or him call you. Then felt like you were ready for sex with him? I feel totally confused. lol

    Trying to make myself stop would only magnify more feeling. Why not let the 1st feeling just flow thru u.. Or am I missing how the stop sign works? To redirect your thoughts, right?

  369.  #369Lucy on January 5, 2011 at 12:46 am

    “Why not let the 1st feeling just flow thru u..”

    That’s what works well for me, Alicia.

  370.  #370Lucy on January 5, 2011 at 12:51 am

    For some strange reason, the image I always get when I am in a process of releasing a guy I like is the part in E.T. where Elliott and E.T. are on the operating tables side by side and one of the doctors/scientists says something like, “They’re separating.”

    I guess it captures my feelings —

    the attachment that was btwn Elliott and E.T.

    and then the separating that needs to take place in order for both of them to survive and be healthy.

    Whenever I feel that little shift of separating/detaching, I hear in my head, “They’re separating” and see that scene in my mind’s eye.

  371.  #371Lucy on January 5, 2011 at 12:52 am

    And it feels good that I am shifting to a better place.

  372.  #372Alicia on January 5, 2011 at 12:57 am

    Never mind.. I read some more in Brenda’s post… I got it. There are just some people who have your heart.. and letting go is not easy. It’s like the line..

    “if you love something set them free.. and if it comes home, it’s meant to be.”

    It takes a lot of trust to set them free.. but to hold tight feels selfish. So as hard it is.. I’ve sending out mental vibes of trust and letting go. Like a kite on a string. They are also on their own journey.. and do I feel in my heart we will be together again… yes. But, what if I meet someone else in the process.. scary. But, maybe that’s the energy space they need to come back.. Like an animal using it’s senses..

    New Mantra. – I am the heart that fills the home. If home is where the heart is. My sexy man loves coming home.

    Keep the door unlocked, but, dont watch the clock. lol 😉

  373.  #373LonePlum on January 5, 2011 at 12:59 am

    Sweetpea 336

    If anybody was defending Brenda it would mean she needs to justifies what she is doing and she needs people to back her up.
    Which is not the case
    She does not need to justify herself, and nobody needs to defend her
    She does what she wants or can.
    I have seen Brenda doing exactly what she wants
    She is an adult and she is free
    She does not need to be defended
    Besides I don’t see anybody accusing her
    Sirens are putting each their lights on her words.

    The lights are showing TO HERSELF a little bit more every time that she is telling herself a story
    So she gets upset and she leaves
    But she knows everybody’s intention is to put different lights on her situation and she comes back

    I bet she already knows what Daria meant and she is already thinking about it.
    She might not put it in action, but she will understand that nobody accuses or belittles her.
    She trusts Daria, or it is what I have been sensing so far.
    It has happened before

    She won’t like my post
    Yet, I respect her and myself, I write what I see into her words

    I posted only to react to the post that compares her to meemee
    I still don’t see the link.
    Meemee was fighting with a real physical man who wanted to keep getting in her bed
    As I said, meemee is NOT forcing X to keep in touch, she has stopped all contact
    The minute she saw the new lights on her situation, she stopped it all.
    It is X who flipped totally, of course, and then contacted meemee to keep her inside his game. They speak and meet almost every day.
    Well I don’t want to rewrite my post.
    When X stops the contact, there is no more contact, meemee does not try to convince him any more.

    I feel relieved you said it is not about Ryan but about Brenda as this is what my post is trying to say
    She is the only person able to free herself from her own obsession, inside her mind, not inside his mind.
    As long as she blames anybody for her destiny, she will be locked in.
    Not blaming herself does not mean blaming somebody else
    Not blaming herself means getting rid of the guilt concept all together.

    Besides, whatever Ryan did, was last year during her imaginary relationship.
    That imaginary relationship has been over since 2009.
    He has done nothing since then, they don’t even talk.
    Whatever fault he had DURING the imaginary relationship ceased when the relationship ended.

    It is not like if she was regularly going back to a lover who welcomes her and then fights with her
    That would be a player
    He never asks her to come back. He keeps telling her to give him his space.
    She is fighting a fight with a lover who is not her lover and is not fighting with her and is not even talking to her.
    She is fighting with her imagination, but it is hurting her as if it was real.
    Since it is her own imagination, it can last 20 more years.
    It is more dangerous than you seem to think.

    We may say Ryan is mean, if you like, why not, it is irrelevant.
    It won’t change the fact he is not doing anything TODAY and has done nothing since 2009.
    The fact that she is accusing him to be toxic to her and yet she is forcing him to keep in touch, is the symptom of her toxicity towards herself, precisely.
    There is no accusation against her, millions people do that to themselves
    Lucidity is not an accusation

    She will turn the light off, if she is not ready.
    She will keep her own light if she wants
    Or she will pick somebody else’s light.
    She is a free adult.

    I only reacted to the comparison with meemee, that could only mislead Brenda in believing she was having a real fight with a real man.


  374.  #374Alicia on January 5, 2011 at 1:03 am

    Like an animal using it’s senses to come home.. You know.. they go explore and no matter how far they go.. We dont really worry, some where we trust they know their way back and they do. Like a cat..

    I believe feeling the feeling makes it pass sooner. But, I always try to figure out where is this coming from.. This cant all be about him. Then I work on forgiving pieces of my past. And explore other feelings. And poof I find a peaceful hopeful place again.

  375.  #375Daria on January 5, 2011 at 1:04 am

    Lucy – this this fels bad . When I read youre feeling messages they ferl bad. I ferl mistrusyfil . I dont ferl like I’m getting ttruefeelings.

    L ikeperplexed our I wonder

    I want to yell u dont ferl perplexed u
    dont “wonder”

    I tfels weird and unsafe and distant

    I felt happy to see you had come to the realization thst the rekationship maTters not the man
    T IHEN FELT disappointed to read that q cuz it seemed to me an indication that theres still stuckinessabout allowring
    men to date you

  376.  #376Janie on January 5, 2011 at 1:04 am

    Thanks to Rori, the blog and all the sirens who post here!

    Last week I went on a first date with New Guy after leaning back and letting him call me once a week for about three weeks. Tonight he sent me a long email about not really having the time and energy to devote to a new relationship but how cute, articulate, witty, etc. I am…and wondering how I felt the chemistry was, etc. I couldn’t tell if he didn’t feel it for me, was unsure if I felt it for him or if he is just too involved in some family health issues with his parents. It was unclear.

    I took about an hour to process his rather long and rambling email. Then I wrote back to him in an upbeat but honest way with my feelings. I told him it felt good to meet him and some positives. I told him I was interested in seeing him again. Basically though I told him I’m looking to date men. I’ve had guys want to be email buddies but I’m not interested in that. And, if he’s not interested in dating that I understand.

    It felt so good to express my feelings and thoughts and to say what I don’t want and what I do want. I feel like if nothing else this cd guy has been one experience where I was able to be very honest about how I feel and what I want and what I don’t want. I sure don’t want to hang around while he decides if we could be more than friends. I’m looking to date not be just a friend. And isn’t dating where you decide if he’s really the guy for you? And if he’s already decided I’m not his one that’s fine too. I don’t want to waste my energy in hoping he would like me more than a friend.

    It feels good to be open and share my feelings! Thanks to all of you!


  377.  #377Alicia on January 5, 2011 at 1:05 am

    Lucy – E.T. makes me sooooo sad. I love E.T. but, I felt sooooo sad when he gets sick and then goes home. I also cried in Short Circuit when the robot fell off the back of the truck.. lol. I was a tender hearted kid. lol

  378.  #378Alicia on January 5, 2011 at 1:08 am

    I didn’t mean to say nevermind like I didn’t care. I meant it like.. Nevermind.. I got it.. so we can save the energy for repeating.. I hope it come across like that. A little self doubt on that, just wanted to clear the air. Incase..

  379.  #379Alicia on January 5, 2011 at 1:13 am

    Well, not exactly poof. Sometimes an hour long thearpy session Iater I feel good again and after my counselor talks about some self care later or feeling tired is normal or feeling more feelings later. Then with in time I feel better.

    The anger.. omg can be scary. I got triggered in counseling and I literally had to pull my car over. I got inside my house and beat a shoe on the floor over and over.. Now I can laugh.. But, shit I was pissed. Years of rejection and abandoment had turned inside and anger inward cause depression. And I was afaid to let it come up. But, therapy helped. I feel way more alive.. I still feel scared alot, but, I feel more open.

  380.  #380Daria on January 5, 2011 at 1:17 am

    Yay Alicia !

  381.  #381Alicia on January 5, 2011 at 1:18 am

    I feel angry that my dad didnt choose to see me at Christmas but, bought me a lap top and printer and left it at my grandmas.. Who lives two stop lights away..

    I feel pissed at my step mom.. for bieng a cold hearted bitch who told me I was suppose to be an abortion.

    I feel angry that they wanted to start a new family with out me and asked other people to take me.

    I feel rejected.. and that feels sad..

    I want to forgive them.. and I want the forgiveness to feel real. So, I can trust love..

    Ughhhhhhhhhhh so frustrating. All this processing!

  382.  #382Janie on January 5, 2011 at 1:21 am


    Your posts are very clear on this. I have read many of your other thoughts and really get a lot from what you put on the blog.

    Earlier today I was feeling so frustrated that sirens were saying how angry they were at Ryan and how horrible he acts. And even to Brenda when she was writing about why doesn’t Ryan get desperate enough to change his life, etc. that I felt it was a mirror. She really did not like that! And, I understand.

    It is hard to read when someone keeps repeating such painful things for many months. I think that is why so many sirens respond. It is deep horrible pain. But, unfortunately she keeps herself in it at this point. And, yes many of us have been there. However, continually turning a blind eye and at times coddling also does not help anyone. It all feels yucky, icky, horrible. How can we all ignore Brenda’s pleas and story? We can’t.

  383.  #383Alicia on January 5, 2011 at 1:23 am

    Talking about conseling triggered my anger… and abandoment and that feels upetting and lonely..

    Yet, real love is inside of me.. and I do have a winderful support system…

    I just want to attract a good man in my life that I feel attracted to.. and have been alone so long for fear of a toxic man, which I’m more accustomed too. Better to be alone then with toxic.. but, I soon hope I’m ready to be with a healthy loving person.. I hope it feels good and not scary. Imaginary feels normal… Thank dad on that.. But, I do forgive and trust I’m healing and attracting a reflection of the health in me.

  384.  #384Lucy on January 5, 2011 at 1:23 am

    Lol, Daria. I don’t know what to do with you anymore.

    You’re gonna think what you want about me no matter what, so maybe it’s time for me to ignore you.
    That might be difficult to do, though, so we’ll see….

  385.  #385Janie on January 5, 2011 at 1:24 am


    Great riffing!

  386.  #386Alicia on January 5, 2011 at 1:28 am

    *wonderful support system

  387.  #387Alicia on January 5, 2011 at 1:30 am

    Thanks Janie…

    Is that riffing? haha. I wasn’t sure.. I heard Rori say it before but, I thought maybe she meant between girls.. like oppose what they say or something. If it’s just expressing anger. I’m finally there. lol

  388.  #388Lucy on January 5, 2011 at 1:31 am

    Alicia, wow about your step-mom. I feel so sad that she said that to you. 🙁 I feel good reading about your hopes and desires for a healthy you and a healthy relationship.

  389.  #389Janie on January 5, 2011 at 1:31 am


    I spent a lot of time avoiding relationships because I didn’t like how I felt in them. Too much anxiety. Not choosing the best men. And, because of my fears probably triggering their fears. I finally feel ready now! I am glad for Rori and everyone like yourself willing to share here!

  390.  #390Daria on January 5, 2011 at 1:32 am

    My new boundary around addiction. I will not ignore my discomfort.

    I will acknowledge my discomfort.

    BroughtTo u by rosa.s stop sign

  391.  #391Alicia on January 5, 2011 at 1:34 am

    Brenda –

    you know how life is always a mirror refelcting back things to you. Maybe the girls are mad at Ryan.. and it’s just a feeling showing itself to you.. to be processed. Instead of the sad, I miss u.. how about, the I trusted you and now I feel rejected, I’m so angry!!!! Let it all hang out. Rori is always saying be authentic.. like I feel pissed and yet I’m scared to be with out you.

    On a scale of 1-10 where is your anger with Ryan?

  392.  #392Janie on January 5, 2011 at 1:35 am

    Daria is great with riffing both doing it and explaining it. If she is still here she may say something more…or one of the other sirens… But, I would say for one it is about expressing your feelings…processing them with the intent of working through them so you aware of them (can also express where in your body you feel them) and don’t need to hold onto them so strongly.

  393.  #393Lorelei on January 5, 2011 at 1:41 am

    Janie @ 383

    Hi – I like your post, and it feels as if you sent an authentic reply to this man. I wonder what will happen next!

    I’m curious about the phrase “email buddies.”

    With one of my CDs, because of the distance, there is a lot of texting (daily) and some phoning (weekly) and occasional meetings (about monthly?).

    I feel a bit worried that a text-buddy might be a bit like an emil-buddy . . But please could you share a bit more of what is meant by email buddy – any positives? Or is it a bit of an imaginary relationship?

    I’m beginning to wonder if too much texting (funny, witty, and with feeling messages though) runs at a different pace than F2F meetings, and could give a false positive for either or both of us.

  394.  #394Lucy on January 5, 2011 at 1:43 am

    Lol. Did you all notice that pof changed “yes” to “oui” for the question about having a car??? I wonder if they did it on purpose or if it’s a glitch.

  395.  #395Lorelei on January 5, 2011 at 1:43 am

    Can anyone remind me of the email address for Rori’s assistant? I’m struggling to find it on here. Thanks.

  396.  #396Janie on January 5, 2011 at 1:47 am

    Hi Lorelei,

    Yes, I do wonder. I’ll be okay which ever way it goes. Either dating or not! 🙂

    As far as your question, what I meant was when a guy is not really interested in dating, but just emailing or texting. Your situation sounds different to me because of the distance and because you do go on dates!

    You know how Rori talks about getting to the phone stage pretty quickly with online guys and then to a date? There seem to be many guys (and perhaps girls as well?) who seem perfectly happy keeping it all on email or text. That’s what I mean. I want to go on dates and have real life experiences. Staying in contact by text and email is fine and fun! Does that help?

  397.  #397Alicia on January 5, 2011 at 1:50 am

    Thanks ladies…

    Trusting yourself and making yourself happy.. I guess is the key. Like, if I dont feel good I can leave.

    Versus If they are mad or pissed then they leave me.

    And not wondering what I did to deserve it..

    Sometimes.. it really is “there issue” and now as an adult I can get up and say I want to feel good. And this feels bad so, I AM going to leave. Be in a place that feels good. I’m so glad I get to be an adult. I feel sorry for kids in abusive homes who have to stay.. and then spend years working it all out.

    I can’t believe how many years I beat myself up mentally trying to figure out what I did to deserve being left so much as a child..

    When really, it was just a toxic person who had issues that were not mine to take in.. Felt like a reflection of me.. But, it wasn’t.. not an innocent kid..

    Then I lived out the false statement.. “you aren’t suppose to be here. You’re not wanted.” in my own life. Thanks to the step-bitch. Who tells a teen that? I think for years it made me sad and I took it on as a truth.. and now I feel pissed!!!!

    I wonder why it’s taking me so long to forgiver her. I know I want to forgiver her. Probably cause I just got triggered AGAIN over the holidays..

    It will pass.. I’m exploring. Need to my a counseling appt.. asap. I can feel it’s time.

  398.  #398Janie on January 5, 2011 at 1:52 am


    To clarify more – I do believe that only emailing/texting would constitute an imaginary relationship. That whole if he’s not in front of you…

    And your question about a false positive? I don’t think so when you are also talking on the phone and having real live dates! It sounds good and fun! Good luck with your CD!

  399.  #399Alicia on January 5, 2011 at 1:53 am

    Yes.. Daria is good at riffing.. Now I got it.. 🙂

    Where I’m tired.. Looking forward to a new day..

    Nighty night

  400.  #400Lorelei on January 5, 2011 at 1:54 am

    Janie- thanks

    That makes more sense. Just endless email or texting would feel very frustrating! Makes me wonder what they’re getting out of it. Maybe a fantasy. Ooh that might be a bit yukky!

    I don’t seem to have met anyone who only wants text or email – partly because if it looks as if it’s going that way after 3 or 4 weeks, I put in a line combining various phrases like “email feels a bit detached/impersonal/cold/whatever, I can’t see your eyes or hear your voice, I feel curious about the real man behind the monitor, what do you think?” Then I write my number under my name.

    That seems to either stop them, but most have phoned up and dates have ensued from there!

  401.  #401Janie on January 5, 2011 at 1:56 am

    Wow, Alicia that feels bad about your step-mom! It sounds like you had some really tough, tough times with her when you were growing up. And, seems understandable that you would continue to be triggered.

    I don’t know if it would be helpful for you but one thing I do with people who trigger me in my life is to try to see what in their life may have made them react that way. Can you see her pain that influenced her in acting in such bad ways to you? I find that sometimes I can only see such things at first in an intellectual way, but even that can be helpful for me. Pain in people comes out in horrible ways.

    I hope you will feel better soon!

  402.  #402Janie on January 5, 2011 at 1:59 am

    #408 – I ought to say pain in people MAY come out in horrible ways rather than “Pain in people comes out in horrible ways.”

  403.  #403Lorelei on January 5, 2011 at 2:00 am

    Lucy @ 401

    I haven’t used POF (yet) but I laughed to hear that ‘Yes’ is replaced by ‘Oui’. I’m naughtily imagining that they are trying to introduce a touch of French intrigue or ‘je ne sais quois’ to the proceedings! 🙂

  404.  #404Janie on January 5, 2011 at 2:02 am


    Thanks for the ideas! I had one guy in the spring who I saw two times with a month of emails in between. Then another month of emails after the second time before I sent some feeling messages and we stopped corresponding. Ultimately I think he really wanted an f buddy. E buddy or f buddy, either one is of no interest to me!

  405.  #405Daria on January 5, 2011 at 2:10 am

    The attraction is already there… That’s not something we have to work on…

    Men like you work hard to get me. (thanks rosa stop sign + flip)

    There are things I must have to start a sexual relationship…

    Are u a freak?

    I like to be gone down on – a lot.

    Are u romantic?
    I like going on dates…

    Are u dependable? I like men who do what they say they will and respect my time.

    I noticed I didn’t feel good about this with u at first.

    I’d need to know u will come thru as planed or warn me when there’s changes.

    Is this something u could provide for me?

    Gosh I love this tool (looking up to the right is important). And zinc lozenges for my cold.

  406.  #406Daria on January 5, 2011 at 2:12 am

    Thanks ladies – 🙂

  407.  #407Daria on January 5, 2011 at 2:24 am

    I go to sleep at times that are healthy for me!

    I love this tool… It’s like a thought eraser…
    Then my new thought is True and feels good and feels true right away with additional perception shifts.

  408.  #408Daria on January 5, 2011 at 2:28 am

    Lucy is babystepping her way and I am honored by her.!

    Yay Lucy!

    I get triggered watching u reject men and like certain men off bat because I do it too… So I want you to shift to aid me in shifting faster…

    But maybe this is actually me shifting faster and powerfully!

    Yay to sexy men whether instant or developed.

    I’m starting to like one of my CDs I felt dispassionate towards. Actually 3 but one in particular.

  409.  #409Daria on January 5, 2011 at 2:34 am

    My life is exciting and flowing! And fun! (thanks stop sign tool… We git here from boring and stuck Stop!)

    What’s cool is me and the girl who got with the dude I was dating are Closer now. I feel more open to her and don’t find myself judging her so much in my mind. Yay!

    And I made the step of treating her in a way I feel good… When it comes to resources and rides.

    So I don’t feel like I owe her subconsciously or that were less than more than pimp Ho stuff.

    It feels better!

    And with my new boundary of acknowledging my discomfort and leaving if she’s drunk… I will feel safe and good!

    I even feel like she genuinely cares about me!

  410.  #410Daria on January 5, 2011 at 2:36 am

    This zinc has helped mucho! My head destuffed and no headache! Yay!

    Gotta let it melt under the tongue- not swallow.

  411.  #411Daria on January 5, 2011 at 2:38 am

    19 man is not 19 anymore. I am Gina call him Jamaican man for now.

  412.  #412Daria on January 5, 2011 at 2:39 am

    Even tho I had other Jamaican CDs and liked them now… I don’t want to block more.., it’s ok I can have Jamaican Men yum.

  413.  #413Lorelei on January 5, 2011 at 2:39 am

    Janie @ 411

    Yeah, E-buddy, F-buddy, I couldn’t feel less interested.

    I was watching some of David Wygant’s YouTube videos (links posted by another Siren recently). In one of these, he’s doing a men’s coaching workshop. And he started talking with his coachees about online sex on dating sites . . . asking how many had got into online sex with new contacts on dating sites. Only one man in the group admitted to it. He makes the point that if women are online at 11.30, they are not just wanting to ask how their online contact’s dog’s visit to the vet went . . that women may be interested in something a little more sexual at that time of night.

    I’m not feeling judgemental about this – between consenting adults it’s fine. In fact I can understand how tempting it could be in the short-term. But it’s not the kind of relationship I’m interested in.

    I like David. He is very respectful of women and is absolutely awesome as a guest speaker in Rori’s Toxic Men. He coaches men out of being toxic and coaches women out of getting hooked on toxic men and how to avoid them in the first place. He’s very good on red flags for us women.

    So I don’t think he is really encouraging the men to do this and certainly not claiming this is a good way to a relationship (it’s only a short clip).

    BUT – it made me ponder what time I am online on the dating site. Sometimes it is very late at night . . . Maybe being online at midnight might suggest to my contacts that I might be more of an e/f-buddy?

    This makes me feel that earlier in the evening might send a clearer subliminal message about what I am looking for and the kind of woman I am. This never occurred to me before!

  414.  #414Lorelei on January 5, 2011 at 2:40 am

    Hey, Daria!

  415.  #415Janie on January 5, 2011 at 2:46 am


    Great point! That has occurred to me and then I’ve forgotten about it too!!! Very interesting!

    I do recall a guy who I had emailed with on a sat morning then doing a “what are you doing on here now” after arriving home from a date around midnight! I won’t forget about this again!!!

  416.  #416Janie on January 5, 2011 at 2:47 am

    So, what does it mean if three sirens are up posting at odd middle of the night hours?

  417.  #417Lorelei on January 5, 2011 at 2:51 am

    Janie –

    Mmmmm that very telling, isn’t it! Yep, it looks like the signals are there if we know how to read them . . .

    I’ve sometimes had messages from men that have been sent so often in the middle of the night (and men who are not shift-workers, according to profiles), and wondered, innocently, why this was!!! I now feel a bit silly, but I’m laughing at myself. Naivety isn’t going to help!

  418.  #418Lorelei on January 5, 2011 at 2:53 am

    @ 423

    Sirens can do whatever they want, as long as they are in their authentic feelings!!

    Or do you mean on here?

  419.  #419Janie on January 5, 2011 at 2:53 am

    I have another CD I’m going to need to express my feelings with. This one is going to be much harder than New Guy. New Guy was a real baby step in comparison. Mostly I feel at peace with some of the things I need to say. But, truly letting go is not going to be easy. I will need to breathe, breathe, breathe. I want to honor myself and continue to remember what I most want and how I can best take care of me.

  420.  #420Janie on January 5, 2011 at 2:54 am


    I was just having some fun thinking about what men think about women being online late on dating sites! Being here at all hours is quite different I think!!!

  421.  #421Janie on January 5, 2011 at 2:56 am

    Ah, and #424 has me laughing!!! I understand and can be very innocent at times as well.

  422.  #422Lorelei on January 5, 2011 at 2:57 am

    That’s what I guessed, Janie!!!

    Good luck with the new CD and feeling messages.

    Earlier up on this post, another Siren posted about how each one is preparing us for The One. I like that. I feel a sense of perspective and calmness when I say that to myself.

  423.  #423Daria on January 5, 2011 at 3:00 am

    I like exposing my sexuality so I don’t mind men coming onto me sexually as long as I feel turned on by it.

    For me I feel confident that I will attract them deeper even if at first look they were interested in sex (cuz I think men are)

    They will see who I am

    I prefer agressively sexual men to slow movers.

    I’m open to both… I feel comfortable w the first… Hmm… Or do I?

    I like looking sexy and then having depth.

    I like that I can be boldly sexual!


    Sex sex sex!

  424.  #424Janie on January 5, 2011 at 3:07 am

    Thanks for the reminder Lorelei that “each one is preparing us for The One.” I believe that too.

    I have known for a long time that I needed to learn how to express my feelings. I’m doing better now than I ever have. And, planning on getting even better. I just kind of have this one guy who I don’t want to let go of. Yet, it isn’t what I want. And, it has been holding me back.

    Too much energy has gone toward him. I’ve wanted to have the next guy to kind of jump over to. So far it hasn’t happened (although you never know as I continue to cd.)

    However with the new year, I have more incentive to make a fresh start! 🙂

  425.  #425Alicia on January 5, 2011 at 3:08 am

    Daria –

    This song is for you… (I just had sex- feat.. Akon) from Saturday Night Live.. lol.

    funny and awesome!

  426.  #426Daria on January 5, 2011 at 3:10 am

    Lol! That song is so funny!

  427.  #427Janie on January 5, 2011 at 3:12 am

    Alicia, that is soooo funny!!! I just had s**!

  428.  #428Alicia on January 5, 2011 at 3:21 am


  429.  #429Rosa on January 5, 2011 at 3:24 am

    Alicia at 375

    Hi , The Stop Sign
    its NOT to stop feelings as such .A feeling that is already there is to be recognised and felt ..

    Stop sign is a way of stopping habits of thought , patterns of thinking that invariably lead to a downward spiral of thinking and feeling and actions (as in the examples i gave).

    Its to stop the addictive thought patterns which lead to the same old -same old negative outcomes.

    If a feeling is there love it and accept it and say HI to it , give it a wave and set it in the corner , look at your thought triggers that caused it and put up the stop sign for same old -same old negative triggers.

    If there is a very strong feeling or “craving” thought/feeling (this works for men, booze or cigarettes! Also for severe anxiety..) that is actually there right now, eg I feel BAD , I want to send a text right now…Stop , breathe , sink in as Rori teaches , say hi to the craving and then notice how its a wave coming and going, it peaks and then leaves …this is really helpful for strong feelings, they always peak and fall away…

    Most of us , me anyway , are good at refuelling the feelings with more and more thoughts in our own favourite pattern , setting up more and more big negative waves..Lets use the example of I NEED TO CONTACT HIM …a common thought/feeling craving

    Thought pattern goes- “oh but I miss him -> I have nothing to lose -> I feel so empty -> I may as well text him..->now i feel BAD ….. (and I damaged my self esteem as well, and now I feel WORSE , I am a loser …UUUUGHHHH)”

    You can do stop sign anywhere in the pattern that you catch yourself .. and it breaks down the pattern.

    OR , just feel the feeling of missing him and wanting contact , know it will peak in a wave shape and will ebb away , and you dont have to think or do anything about it .. movement helps it pass faster ofetn and singing something ridiculous..

    Hope this is a little clearer. These are prinbciples of ACT therapy and some CBT stuff in a little nutshell.

    I works great for me and I hope for soemone else too. I wrote it for Brenda first.

  430.  #430Janie on January 5, 2011 at 3:25 am

    I just received my tut saying of the day. What do you sirens think?

    “Yeah, I know it seems that your emotions arise from circumstances, even though it works the other way around. And this is kind of scary because sometimes they literally seem to overrun you.

    But I also know that most of the time they don’t, which is all the leverage you need.

    Just feel good when you can; it’ll always be enough.

    Can you feel me, now?
    The Universe”

  431.  #431Alicia on January 5, 2011 at 3:29 am

    Thanks Rosa.. helpful!

  432.  #432Janie on January 5, 2011 at 3:31 am

    Rosa, nice explanation! I think I will try it too!

  433.  #433Rosa on January 5, 2011 at 3:32 am

    Daria, glad you like the Stop sign !

    Flip afterwards leads you higher up the rungs of Rori’s ladder.

    The great thing is that you only need to see the Stop sign and Stop for it to work great !!
    It becomes automatic and subconscious really soon and the pattern just stops automatically.

    The flip is an added extra bonus.. kind of re-routing the thoughts onto a whole new track ..soon every time you remember his face you smile and burst into “Jingle Bells”!!!! Wierd huh…

  434.  #434Rosa on January 5, 2011 at 3:38 am

    For this reason , any thought of G-Man now leads to automatic big strong image of a bright purple agapanthis bursting into flower… (dont ask me how I set that one up!) and I giggle..yes its that powerful.

    First step is deciding that holding onto your pattern is harming you. You have to want to change 🙂

  435.  #435Alicia on January 5, 2011 at 3:39 am


    Is this kinda like e.f.t? They have you tap and say a little line or two then humm happy birthday.

    eft- is emotional freedom technique

  436.  #436Wonder Woman on January 5, 2011 at 3:41 am

    Janie re: 180

    Thank you, thank you…you have no idea how much I needed to read that yesterday!!

    Just as the little doubts were creeping in….( maybe I’ll just check if he’s online, maybe just one text, maybe just one email)…… it helped me get my thoughts into perspective and establish what I was feeling.

    It is so simple. It really is boredom. Yes that is EXACTLY what it is. I do not need or want to contact these men. I know once I have the circle begins and I end up feeling awful so just to realise it is NOT that I want to contact them I just need to find something to do is such a relief.

    From now on when I get those feelings I am going to go do something for me….maybe a facial or do my nails. So not only will it stop me from contacting the no action men…..but I’ll look great because of it too. 🙂

  437.  #437Janie on January 5, 2011 at 3:48 am

    Wonder Woman,

    I’m so glad that helped!!! I have been getting those emails for the last few weeks and they are great!

    A few sirens (perhaps Turtle Girl?) here were talking about Baggage Reclaim several months ago. I got her ebook, something like The unavailable guy and the fallback girl. It’s helpful too. Like Rori, she gives a lot on her site and with the email.

    And WW, that’s great that you are doing things for you! I so understand wanting that bit of attention and lift out of other stuff such as boredom at times!

  438.  #438Jennifer on January 5, 2011 at 3:48 am

    Reading and riffing re: Brenda and Daria……….
    wow……ya’ll just trigger the crap outta each other.

    Brenda…….you text ed Ryan again. So…how did that feel?
    I’m wondering about the idea of transference.
    So like a woman is in therapy for her over eating….the therapist asks “how’s yer marriage?” the woman replies “ problems, great.” As she digs around in her purse and jams a chocolate bar in her mouth.
    Sometimes focusing on ONE issue (Ryan) so that you don’t have to focus on OTHER stuff (money, health, past trauma, grief, whatever)
    Interesting to think about.

    Daria….wow sister…….you got’s some big old triggers there. I was glad to see you process through them and come up with the idea that you were labeling Brenda’s behaviour.
    Cause that was the first thing I thought when I read some of the riffing.

    Now riffing about me
    I felt sooo happy when my brother came over last night. He brought my nephew…..ahhhhhhhh LOVE that baby!
    I do…..he’s soooo freakin cool.
    I love cooking for him and eating with him.
    I find it so interesting…..he’s a very active kid. So if I want snuggles or kisses….hes all like “put me down aunt jen…I wanna RUN!”
    But when I get interested in something else….like playing resident evil with my brother…..he plays for a bit and then is like “ok aunt jen…..ready for kisses”
    Then he’s all in my face.
    I guess thats an analogy for men in general.
    We get busy in our own lives…..workin out our shit and then come drifting back.
    I feel like crap today
    I had to take mucho drugs yesterday….freakin drugs.
    I feel so scared that these cysts are never going to go away.
    I’m going to look into some acupuncture.
    This shit hurts. Like wicked bad.
    The over the counter stuff ain’t workin.
    Frig a loo.
    I want this healed.
    no more horribly painful cysts.

    is it riffing if I’m talking TO daria and brenda?
    What EV.

  439.  #439Rosa on January 5, 2011 at 4:22 am

    Hi Jennifer,

    Yes I love that idea of focusing on the one thats easy to focus on ..because actually you dont have to DO anything about it .. he left you after all,….

    and meanwhile all the other stuff you CAN do something about doesnt get done..

    GUILTY 🙂

  440.  #440Rosa on January 5, 2011 at 4:41 am

    Alicia 224 , no not the same as EFT which is an energy tool , thinking tools are more playing in your own software and choosing a different program!

    Daria is the EFT Queen , maybe she can help out ther ewith some info?

  441.  #441Wonder Woman on January 5, 2011 at 5:20 am


    Yes I have been on Baggage Reclaim before. It has been very helpful to me in establishing the types of men I go for and what to do about it but I had not seen that post before.

    The timing was perfect. 🙂

  442.  #442Senior Lady Vibe on January 5, 2011 at 5:31 am

    @269: Turtle Girl says:

    “My brother is mentally ill. He can also be a complete bastard behavior wise. And he KNOWS the difference. Trust me Ryan knows the difference too. Get out of jail cuz I’m sick don’t cut it. Sorry. Even the crazie’s know what as*hole is.”

    My darling and much adored younger brother is mentally ill also. And probably like yours diagnosed as such, on a strict medication routine and living on disability benefits. He became ill when he was very young, still a student at university.

    All your family love my brother very much even though we know he will not have the kind of relationships with us that we have with each other.

    We include him in family gatherings but we know he is only comfortable for short periods of time so we take that into consideration. He is included but we don’t force him to do things that make him uncomfortable.

    Mental illness exists in many forms and to varying degree; some people are less able to function than others.

    One cannot always immediately tell by looking or even in casual conversation with a mentally ill person. Also, we have found that when women meet someone good looking, articulate, well-mannered and charming they overlook a lot of things!

    From time to time women chase after my brother, often like hungry dog after squirrel. He enjoys their company but he is limited in his ability to form the kinds of relationships they are mostly seeking. Sometimes they are relentless, sometimes he uses them for sex. Although he is honest with them, sometimes they seem not to notice.

    When a man repeatedy says quietly and consistently that he does not want a romantic relationship with a woman, that does not make him an a$$hole.


  443.  #443Senior Lady Vibe on January 5, 2011 at 5:47 am

    @276: Daria says

    “…Mostly Addiction to harming self in order to draw sympathy from others.”

    Although this may or may not be what happens, it might not be her intention at all… and to treat her as if it were might not be the fair thing to do.


  444.  #444Senior Lady Vibe on January 5, 2011 at 5:49 am

    It looks like I’m behind in posts. I hope everyone is happy now. Happiness is sure a lot of work sometimes! It’s worth it!


  445.  #445Senior Lady Vibe on January 5, 2011 at 5:57 am

    I guess I missed the sirens last night…but I need my beauty sleep…sometimes…

    truly, I do. But I was reading instead. 😛

    Tim Gunn’s book:
    “Life’s Little Lessons For Making It Work”

    One of my sisters recommended the book. I intend to “work it”, “work my show” and “make it work” so the book recommendation was apropos. 😉

    The first pages look informative, inspiring and fun.


  446.  #446Lori on January 5, 2011 at 6:21 am

    I had a thought that reminded me of Brenda about a CD guy I went out with a few months ago. He seemed really interested, the chemistry was great and we had some really good dates. He called me almost every day for about a month and I was really starting to think there was some potential there. One week, I actually went out with him five times in the same week, which is very unusual for me.

    Then out of the blue he just stopped calling. Cold Turkey. I felt anxious and confused and wondered what I did wrong. My girlfriend and I analyzed it to no end during that time and neither of us could figure out what went wrong. I felt sad, rejected, insecure, angry etc. I did stay strong and didn’t call or text him at all.

    After about 2 weeks he called and asked to meet me. He apologized for disappearing and told me that he had had some major life disappointments. He had lost his job and his ex wife had decided to fight him for full custody of his children so that she could move to another state. He told me he felt really really depressed, almost hopeless, and that he had been drinking heavily. He cried. His brutal honesty felt weird to me, but he told me that he felt open enough to share something so heavy with me.

    Anyway, he was basically telling me that he was not emotionally available for me at this time and I felt RELIEF afterwards. That made me feel confused, so my girlfriend and I analyzed it some more. I finally came to the conclusion that the relief I felt was because I no longer had to feel insecure and rejected because now I knew that it was HIM with the issues, not ME. I actually continued to see him for a few weeks after that, with red flags of emotional unavaliability and other issues practically slapping me in the face. Because it wasn’t ME, it was HIM. It actually made me feel better about myself to be able to say that it wasn’t goint to work out because HE had issues. I feel ashamed to say it, but I felt almost a kind of extra confidence that no matter what MY issues are, I at least knew that I was “healthier” than he was emotionally. It was kind of a weird, sick feeling and luckily I came to my senses pretty quickly and stopped seeing him because it obviously wasn’t going to go anywhere.

    I wonder if despite Brenda’s pining, there is an element of this with Ryan and his “demons”? Maybe if the demons can be blamed for the failure of the relationship, then she can feel somewhat better about herself, knowing no matter what it wasn’t her fault or anything he might have not liked about her? Just a thought…

  447.  #447Lori on January 5, 2011 at 6:29 am

    I mean, no matter how unhealthy her behavior seems to us-the calling texting etc when he has said he doesn’t want a relationship with her, SHE is still even by HIS admission the healthier one in that relationship. He never tells he she has issues, he always says HE’S sick and HE’S the one with issues.

    Perhaps she’s not addicted to feeling bad as some others have pointed out, but feels bad about herself and feels BETTER about herself knowing someone else has more problems than she does? Could that be the addiction here? Just brainstorming because Brenda reminds me alot of myself in some ways…

  448.  #448Femininewoman on January 5, 2011 at 6:57 am

    Meemee it is good to read the update about your life and where it is headed. All this happening in the beginning of a new year is in my mind the universe letting you know that you have a second chance to start over and implement the new things you have learnt. I am also in that place to a certain extent. I encourage you to go with the flow, do not resist it. Sit with the feelings of loneliness and hurt and I guarantee you will heal.

    Brenda I am missing your input. It seems many posts have been written since your last one. I hope you are okay. I think it is great that you have written here and have been like a mirror for us to look at ourselves. I have made some of those errors and while it is hard for us to look closely at ourselves it is healing and encouraging to know that the possibility exists that we can change. God bless you Brenda. Regardless of everything use your mind and tell yourself “I am in a great relationship with a fantastic man where I feel cherished, love and fabulous”.

  449.  #449Mercedes on January 5, 2011 at 7:16 am

    Brenda: I hope you’re still reading here and that this conversation hasn’t scared you off. This blog is mostly supportive, but so, so much of the time it is not. Please…all that negativity…take it with a grain of salt (and a shot of tequila and a slice of lime if you like).

    Daria will always approve of baby steps as long as she’s the only one taking baby steps. Everyone else needs to take giant leaps or she “feels pissed”. Take me for example…totally not comfortable with feeling messages or with practicing them in public…Daria decided my baby step use of them with J when I needed them wasn’t good enough and she attacked (on several occasions…) to the point where they actually turn me off almost completely and annoy the crap out of me most of the time. It’s her MO to do that kind of thing though. Rori will set out a rule that says to direct all anger at her and not at other people who post here. Daria will hold everyone to that…except herself of course because she “feels good” to go off on a tangent and attack others. Daria doesn’t like to read anything on this blog that “feels bad” and she calls it a “boundary” but Daria writes things that feel BAD all the time. Several times a day if you ask me.

    Please…take the negativity here with a grain of salt…take Daria with two shots of tequila. One minute she’ll think you’re awesome and the next she’ll go off on you like you are the most horrible person on the earth. I learned to laugh.

    I know you are hurting. One step at a time and you will heal. Daria won’t have patience for one step at a time and she’ll clearly lose it if you take two steps back after that step, but there are others here who will support you and will lift you up and will encourage you even if we get frustrated (even our closest friends and family will get frustrated with us sometimes but there are ways of encouraging through frustration and most of the women here know how to do that). Don’t let her get to you. She’s one person and she’s been attacking sirens for months now. She forgets that we’ve all been hearing about her own imaginary relationship for years. She tells you to let it go but her own heart still pines for a man who had a baby with someone else. At least you’re honest about it. That man keeps her from fully moving on and she can’t admit that to herself or to anyone here. That man is the reason she hasn’t found another and she, with all her self-approved baby steps, can’t see it.

    We ALL…every single one of us…knows what it feels like to love someone SO much we can’t bear to let it go but only some of us will have empathy when another is going through it. Others will have to throw stones. Others will hate us. Others will want us to leave. If I’m not mistaken, Daria has her own blog. Maybe, when things feel bad to her here, instead of telling others to go away, maybe she’ll go away to her own place.

    Only bably steps will help you let go of Ryan. Remember when you used to post all the time about your bad childhood and your social skills? Remember I challenged you to not say anything negative about your past to anyone for 60 days? Do you realize you almost never talk about that suff anymore? Do you see how much that helped you? Set yourself a goal with Ryan…a goal for 60 days…see if that helps. Maybe you could also grieve the loss. If you admit to yourself it is over (really admit it) and go through the grief, it could very well take you into the anger I think you need to find. 60 days…what can you do for 60 days to help break a pattern?

    I’m going to support you Brenda. Ryan is not real anymore…but he’s real in your heart. Now is the time, not to remove him from your heart (I think he has a permanent place there) but to put him in a back corner of it…put him in a place in your heart where you can feel him and smile and move on. He taught you a lot of good lessons about yourself and what you want and what you don’t want. See if you can apply those lessons now. See what happens.

    We can’t help who we love. Women love men who beat the crap out of them and who do all sorts of horrible things. They can’t help it. But we CAN control who we like. I know there are a lot of things about Ryan you don’t like. I think maybe you need to focus on those things maybe even in meditation. Not to make him a bad person, but to reiterate in your heart why he’s not enough for you. I have male friends who I absolutely adore. I would never date them and I would never set them up with a friend of mine. Why? Because they are horrible at relationships and they hurt every woman they try with. Does that make them bad? No. Does my seeing it and fully realizing it keep me from getting hurt or helping them hurt others? Yes. So I pray for them. I think the world of them. And I leave their potential for relationships up to them. I have them in my heart. I care. And that’s enough. Can you get there with Ryan? I think you can.

    Much Love,

  450.  #450Senior Lady Vibe on January 5, 2011 at 7:18 am

    @287: Sweetpea says:
    “…I fail to see how someone not taking your advice is harmful to you. Draining, yes. I think there’s more to it than that and I still fail to see how telling someone you hate them and to go away is a feeling message…”

    Hate is a feeling. Thus “I hate you” is a feeling message. I want you to go away is a thought.

    Not all feeling messages are pleasant. Did you think they were? Not all feelings are pleasant.

    Not all messages are helpful and improve a situation; though maybe the speaker will then feel better.

    And the listener will then know more about the speaker.


  451.  #451Senior Lady Vibe on January 5, 2011 at 7:25 am