Listening and Love

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lightbulbI’m not listening. I’m acting like I am, I’m standing here. But my daughter’s face may as well be on a movie screen. It flickers in front of me.

There’s food on the stove. There’s a half-written article on the computer. My vitamins are waving to me from the kitchen counter. I’m all over the place. Every place but here.

And she can tell. My daughter has a nose for who’s really there and who’s not. But she’s still talking, and so I think, between the scattered words and phrases “and then he …” that I actually hear, I’m listening, I’m listening, she believes I’m listening!

Then she stops, looks at me. I’ve been found out. She breathes. I breathe. She goes on. I have a second chance.

I know what to do. I unfold my arms from in front of my body. Start a Rori Raye Body Dialogue – but wait. This isn’t the time for a Body Dialogue. This isn’t about me. It’s about her. Her experience. Nothing to do with me.

The stove, the computer, the vitamins are all calling, and still the only thing to do is…listen.

I throw myself Over There, to where she is. I move myself away from myself, and focus on her nose, her eyes, her words. I don’t remember anything more except that she was smiling, and pretty thrilled and breathless about her dream, what with the chase, the rollercoaster and the mistaken identities, and that I wasn’t even there.

When there’s someone else talking, you can bypass your brain and get instantly present by going to Level 2 Listening. Here’s how it works:

Level 1 Listening is It’s all about me. Level 2 is It’s all about you. Listening at Level 3 is a bit esoteric – It’s all about everything. Listening to someone and then feeling heard by them is an unbelievable experience – and it’s very rare.

Most of us are at Level 1 all the time. Most of the time, we aren’t really listening, we’re thinking about ourselves – what we’re going to say next, what we think about the other person, that our pants are too tight, we have a pimple on our chin, anything but the person right in front of us.

When we’re in a conversation with someone, and we’re thinking about how what that person is saying relates to us, we’re at Level 1. I may be sitting or standing here talking with you, but actually I’m all in my own head about me. Oh, that happened to me too! Or I wonder if he likes my hair or I wonder if he’ll ask me out. There is nothing wrong with Level 1 Listening – in other words, being all about ourselves – except that it limits our ability to really relate to others.

Level 2 Listening is the complete reverse of Level 1. Imagine how, when you’re utterly in love with someone, all you can see is their face, all you can hear is their voice, all you can smell is their breath and cologne. Their words and the feelings they express are, in that moment, the most important things in the world to you. In fact, the only things in the world.

When you listen to a man, really Listen at Level 2, you will change the moment, the interaction, the entire relationship. And as a result, he will change – almost overnight.

A man you think you’re not attracted to might suddenly open up and become really attractive to you once you find out about him. To do this, just relax. Relax completely and be over there, with him. Let yourself go as though you no longer exist.

Your thoughts are just passing through – you’re over there. You don’t have to talk, or smile, or do anything.

Just listen.

Here’s how to practice Level 2 Listening right now. When I used to do Have the Relationship You Want workshops, we’d work in partners. One person talks about themselves – what’s on their mind, what they did today, anything. The other person listens at Level 2. The talking person’s only job is to focus on herself, and the listening person’s only job is to focus on the talking person.

I say, Listeners, all you have to do is listen. Get comfortable. It doesn’t matter if you’re leaning forward or leaning back. Look at your partner. Look at their face, their eyes. Try to stay focused on their words. Really give yourself over to them completely. You are at Level 2 Listening, which is all about them – it’s over there.

If you notice your mind wandering back to – “Oh, that happened to me too,” or “Yeah, I agree” – which is Level 1 – shift back to them. When you’re really at Level 2, you’ll be completely immersed over there. Okay – go.

If you have a friend to work with, practice on each other. If you are working alone, let’s do the exercise differently:

Put yourself in front of a mirror. Imagine that you, in the mirror, are going to hang on every word you, in front of the mirror, say. Your mirror image will follow wherever your thoughts go, giving you total attention. Go ahead and talk about your day. Tell your image everything that happened to you today – the emotion of it, the detail of it, what was important about it. Laugh, cry, say whatever comes to mind. Pay little or no attention to your mirror image.

Now, when you finish up, think about how it felt to completely unload your mind and heart while your mirror image did nothing but listen. She did not interject, offer advice, even go uh-huh. If you imagine that you in the mirror were listening intently and compassionately, you may feel as heard, as light and unburdened as you would practicing with a partner. Now, in order to reverse it, we’ll do without words altogether.

Look at yourself in the mirror, and become completely absorbed in your image’s eyes, hair, nose, mouth, smile – with this important agreement: You must pretend that this mirror image is someone else. In this way, you can look at the mirror image’s hair and notice that it has gray in it, or curl, or a highlight, without thinking about it. In other words, as soon as you say to yourself Oh, I have to color my roots, you’ve moved back to Level 1 Listening.

Your job is to observe with attention and compassion the qualities of the face in front of you, and to commune instinctively with the emotions conveyed by the face and the person in front of you. You are to forget that the image in the mirror is you.

Try this for a few minutes and see what it feels like. It may feel like a mental vacation. A moment to observe and feel without thinking. Without bringing your observations back to yourself.

Now take what you’ve experienced and practice it out in the world.

I encourage you to practice, practice, practice. Practice with the busboy, the clerk, your blind date, your boyfriend or your husband, your children, your friends, your relatives, your pet, the birds outside, and total strangers. Practice and notice when you go back to Level 1. The more you do it, the more natural it will become to listen at Level 2.

Once thing I do remember, and try not to forget, is my daughter stopping abruptly at the end of her dream-telling and hugging me before she danced off, back to her room, back to her computer, back to her books and her music, back to her life.

Let me know how Listening changes things for you, too.  Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Mary Ann on October 13, 2009 at 9:43 pm

    I feel I don’t listen well because I tend to forget the details about what people tell me, mostly I’m talking about men here. I seem to focus on the feelings they are expressing, how they say things, why they are talking about what they are telling me…not sure if that’s good listening or not…I think its my way of trying to absorb who a person is. Maybe that’s how I end up in fantasy land..or fake relationships…OMG light bulb moment…I just realized what I’m doing IS level one listening..because I’m not absorbing them…I’m thinking about who I THINK A PERSON IS and how I feel about them and what they are saying instead of just listening to the real words to the actual thoughts they are expressing.
    I really need to stay in the now…listen to the reality…haha seems obvious to me now

  2.  #2Tina on October 13, 2009 at 11:33 pm

    When I listen to “travel date” speak on the phone, I just want to tell him to SHUT UP! I know this can’t be listening at level 2. I don’t feel like listening at level 2 with him. I don’t want to brush my feeling aside and say oh it’s just me, give it a try and listen at level 2. I do believe I have been listening at level 2 up until a week ago. argggggggggggh!. I don’t want to listen, I don’t want to listen, I don’t want to listen, I don’t want to listen. I’m not sure if my feelings is in response to him tell me, he’ll call me back when I am in a better mood all this after he asked me how I was feeling. Grrrrrrr. I’m avoiding his phone calls. At first what I thought was him coming down with a cold sounds like plugged up sinus lol, who lets their sinus go like that for a long time. blah. I feel judgmental and he is getting on my nerves like seriously. I feel annoyed , annoyed annoyed annoyed. blah. I dont want to go , I dont want to go, I don’t want to go. I don’t want to go, I dont want to go.

    I kinda gave him a hard time on the phone a few days ago. I told him he should feel more grateful instead of whining. blah.

    I feel angry that he is attracted to me and I don’t feel the same way, how could especially over the phone and seeing his pictures, that’s it. I tried telling him this, he isnt listening, he thinks that if I dont feel the same way, right now at this moment, that I should not come. Hey, I’m all for it. I should just tell him , I’m not coming, he can cancell everything, I don’t care, I thought about the possibility of meeting other men while I am there. I cant judge his “anger” level so I dont feel like pushing it. He could be violent for all I know. His phone calls are becoming a little obsessive, I cant deal with it. I cant deal, I cant deal , I can’t deal. blah.

    I feel like shutting down, blowing up, telling him to go take a hike somewhere.

    I did allow the phone calls, I did talk to him for hours, I have to take some responsiblity here. I did tell him my sleep patterns where off, so I didn’t mind taking his phone calls at 3 or 4 am. It’s become a habit now and when I dont answer the first time he’ll keep calling , grrrrrrr.

  3.  #3Tina on October 13, 2009 at 11:35 pm

    Great to hear Mary Ann, I”m really struggling with this right now. I’m not sure where I am with this. I just don’t feel like hearing anything he has to say at the moment. I feel cut off.

  4.  #4Daria on October 14, 2009 at 3:14 am

    i feel curious what you sirens think.

    i’m feeling overwhelmed and giddy and eyes tearing up in a weird way

    heres a convo i just had with a man i met in ny, that i havent really heard from in very long, that i feel VERY attracted to.

    I don’t know if i was leaning forward, what do you think, I felt so insecure and im worried that my feeling insecure leads me to throw myself at him emotionally, i just feel so offbalance overcome with giddiness and excitement

    I will kinda paraphrase well edit into more standard english lol

    HIM: Hey how are you doing long time dont hear from everything is good with u?

    ME: Hi i feel curious who is this?

    HIM: Lol its [Mr. Fuckin Sexy] from new york dont remember me you dont have my number?

    (i dont, i had a different number for him)

    ME: Omgosh papi i feel so happy to hear from you!

    HIM: Yeah i seen your number in my phone book and I havnt heard from you in awhille so how you been?

    ME: I been good fln tired rite now just got back from LA last nite… I feel nervous talking to you hehe

    HIM: Always traveling Oh yeah I bite or something

    ME: Ha no do you? I feel embarassed cuz I like you

    HIM: Nah… I was just checking to see if you alive though…

    ME: Mm yes I fl kina disapointd

    HIM: Yea y u disapointed

    ME: Im fln hella needy like im craving way more attention than checking on my breathing

    HIM: Needy for what though? you still on that ‘hella’ word

    ME: Haha yes. I feel hella more insecure talking to a man i like than one I feel like eh. I feel like a lil desperate for you to like me. it also feels exciting tho

    HIM: U know i like you too… Ur funny though… I texted you telling you i havent heard from you in awhile and you’re feeling insecure… lol

    ME: Ugh I feel soo good talking to you! I just feel all smily and feel bugged that I like you it feels like I dont have enough control to be all cool and casual

    HIM: Lmao… you just take care of yourself… Oh send me a pic of you or something for memory

    ME: Ugh I hate you. I don’t want to be your memory.

    HIM: Lol y not. I didn’t do anything to you why cant you be my memory I don’t know when or if I am ever gonna see you again I think I deserve a pic don’t you

    ME: Yeah I would feel juiced to see you again I don’t want to hear that I won’t or you dono. I feel bad hearing that… I will wait for you with a pic in my hand lol

    HIM: Lol youre funny alright anything you say

    at this point I stopped texting back. I was trying to ask him basically can i move in with him because I would like to move to new york. But i dont know if he has his own place and I didn’t know how or what to write exactly

    I feel glad I wrote that down because it gave me a new perspective. I now realize that when I made the “clever” check on my breathing (instead of him saying check on my aliveness)… i was feeling ANGRY

    but i didn say that quite. I said something about feeling way more insecure around a man I like

    than one i feel eh around.

    I didn’t mention feeling angry

    also it seems like anytime i said a feeling message he seemed drawn in (ie why are you disappointed)

    i remember it felt sooo exciting to be doing this conversation it felt like a rollercoaster and trying to text at the same time

    I was wondering if feels leaning forward the way i seem to mention something the way i feel about HIM constantly… at that moment I felt overwhelmed by HIS energy i felt super excited…

    I think it was good that i was honest…. it would have felt better to say right away i felt angry too

    I felt sooo insecure well it kinda seems like i pushed him away when i said UGH you make me feel so good! it’s like a lil weird… like i couldn’t take it anymore that i felt so giddy and i basically told him (go away i cant take your energy anymore) . so he says ok take care… and then I try to pull him back saying I hate you!

    i feel amused and worried and curious

  5.  #5Daria on October 14, 2009 at 3:34 am

    …”I’m looking for a real real relationship, not a friendship, and though I enjoy being with you a friendship won’t be enough for me…so I don’t feel sure what to say, but I know I don’t want a friendship only, and certainly not a friendship with “benefits.” What do you think?” And if this is just online, no real contact…I wouldn’t put any more energy into it at all until you actually meet

    Thanks Rori this is really helpful. I’m going to say this out loud to get the feel for it.

  6.  #6Daria on October 14, 2009 at 3:37 am

    I really like the idea of saying What do you think? at the end. I had a man recently tell me that its like a trigger for him to man up… its like his subconscious gets activated by it naturally

  7.  #7Tracy on October 14, 2009 at 3:42 am

    Great reminder…..thank you….Its a nice practice way of really getting into my feelings about what is in front of me and i plan to practice it starting now….
    I feel glad that there are so many people i can practice this with…and i feel glad that just reading this post reminds me of how good it feels to really listen at level 2… reminds me to be be in the moment and enjoy the now….
    I noticed the same when i am passing though blogs and different articles…when i really just read through and try and feel what the writer is trying to say then the words have a more deeper meaning and sometimes they provide answers to my questions…..other times when my mind is not at ease and i am reading one thing and thinking…i need to check on something else….the whole experience feels a little different…..thanks rori..

  8.  #8Linda on October 14, 2009 at 4:44 am

    Thank you for the great explanations for the listening tools. I will practice being aware of where I am when I am interacting with others in my life.

    After hitting the wall this week end, I am once again pulling myself together. I thought that I had a big set back, but really it was a growth spurt. I cried till I had no more tears. I felt like I had an elephant on my head all day yesterday and did not get my real eyes back till 2:00 or so. sigh

    I had ice cream with a man that I have been talking to off and on….I had not been returning his calls because I just did not want to start something I could not finish, especially since I was in such an upheavle with issue in my heart over this linger last guy. I actually have a bit of attraction to him but I cant see myself actually hooking up with him long term. He has younger children and an unhealthy relationship with his ex. I am committed to living an uncomplicated life…and I dont want to invite that into my life. I have felt comfortable but uncomfortable with him. He is really attentive and giving, touchy feely… but I had a reserve about him.

    Yesterday I listened to him on level 2. He openned up and told me that he was hung up on his own lost love and is still talking to her off and on and giving her till November 11th (lol) Bingo…. the reason for my intuituve red flags… I wonder why he would be so huggy and kissy with me if he was in love with someone else…. I was actually feeling more attraction to him until he said that. I shut down and closed up shop. I dont want to be the one he uses to try to get over someone else or fill their time until their deadline for someone else. SHEESH!

    As I told him I needed to leave, he asked me to text. I said no. He said he was gonna call me then. I said ” I think I’ll pass on that until after November 11th!”…. he got my message. I am not a back up plan or a time filler. I am not a back up plan for Mr Scruitny either. I am not his saftey net, I will not let myself be emotionally tied to him any longer. I let go and I have no desire or hope for his returning to my life. My tears Monday desolved those. He has been pushed off my horse. No more secret longing or feeling flattered by his crumb offerings. no no no

    I am glad for this blog and this community of great people out here. I feel I have gotten invaluable tools and acquired skills I would not have gotten any other way. I have had my share of deep hurts and woundings. I feel smarter and wiser for dealing with what is to come and able to handle it better.

    Listening to my inner voice, paying attention to my feelings (all of them)… speaking my mind and heart because I need to protect and validate to myself… a much more keen sense and awareness the condition of mens hearts….. listening and not speaking, using discernment. Just a few of the things that I have acquired a greater appreciation and skill with.


  9.  #9Tina on October 14, 2009 at 6:39 am

    Thanks Linda,
    I feel like I’m being pushed off my horse, I feel resistent to his “convincing” behavior. I thought this was something we women did lol. I feel like masculine all of a sudden. My sleep pattern is almost back to normal, I’m only staying up half the night now lol. I can’t take any more marathon phone sessions anymore.

    I never “chased” after men, I did allow myself to feel like I wanted to be convinced. What the heck, I’ll move in with him , hell I’ll even marry him! He must know what he’s talking about because I sure has hell don’t. I cut myself from my own feelings and listened more at level 2 about his desires wants needs, I’m way to nice, I get myself caught in the nice trap. I remember times in my relationships when I would feel smothered. I never asked myself if this is what I really want. I remember feeling this way with my violent ex husband. If I stepped out of his comfort zone, he would spaz out. I would get pulled into his crazy ex situations, involving his children, phone calls , episodes with her coming over. I felt I was taking care of his insecurities, walking him through his life, helping him manage his ex and kids because I could do it. I dont have time for it anymore, like hey come manage my life, your strong enough to do it, since your not doing anything Tina, deal with my crazy ex for me, feed me, do my laundry, have sex with me (as much as I like) . Tina you can take care of everybody even crazy exs’. Drop off my child support payments, just so you know, this goes to my crazy ex your dealing with. Then I wake up looking for a way out. I didn’t sign up for this, or maybe I did ah well it doesnt matter anymore. I”m not in the business of taking care of crazed exs’ anymore or getting myself involved with men who are still involved, children or not, deal with your own dysfunctional shit. I feel like I’m walking myself into another situation lol, he did say that one time not so long ago , that he was out on a date and he ran into his ex and she was with friends and had been drinking and she jumped into his truck screaming GIVE ME MY TRUCK! GIVE ME MY TRUCK! lol oh yeah, this is what I really want to do lol. My last “boyfriends” ex , (we since ended the imaginary relationship) used to get in my space, hover around me at public events, sit close to me or whatever, I was out shopping with my friend recently and she bolted when she saw me in the store, like right out of the store lol. All my ex’s lol have since left me alone, I call them my exs’ because thats how it was, or thats how I felt.

    The man I have the 5 day date with, has informed his EX that he wont be taking their 15 year old son that time because he has a “date” oh yeah, I can almost predict what is going to happen, this is the same drunk ex yelling GIVE ME MY TRUCK! uh huh…

    I seem to have an effect on exs. They seem to have an effect on me, or least the crazed ones. I did sign up for it , I know that , just not going to do it again.

  10.  #10Tina on October 14, 2009 at 6:41 am

    I’m looking back at what I wrote and damn, I did some pretty convincing behaviors. blah

  11.  #11gina on October 14, 2009 at 9:09 am

    I feel amazed that some men can have this affect on us. it’s so weird!!! It makes me wonder if these certain men have this effect on most women, where women forget their goddessness and worship a man as a King based on his presence alone. Those men feel so delicious in a way, and yet repulsive. Working at the preschool, I remember a couple of little babies that were super freakin adorable that they had EVERYONE wrapped around their cute fat little fingers. I wondered if a couple of them would go through life like that – being absolutely adored, even though they were mischievous and in the practice of using their charms starting at 2 years old! Sometimes I come across a man who is so adorable and so in love with himself that I just imagine his whole life of being cherished – I feel like I want to cherish him the very most, but i also feel like I want to channel all of that love back to me. As soon as I feel like the love is going his way, I either feel empowered to leave unless I feel the love chasing me, or I stay and feel needy. But then I hate feeling needy, so I defensively shut out love in all kinds of ways, and the needy gap grows.

  12.  #12gina on October 14, 2009 at 9:17 am

    I guess what I’m saying is that when I sense a man is spoiled, I feel rotten. does that make sense, or is that judgmental?

  13.  #13gina on October 14, 2009 at 9:54 am

    I think these things I wonder about are pointless. People (men) have told me that I think like a “quintessential woman” – cause I make complicated connections. Is there such a thing as a woman’s way of thinking? I know lots of guys have thought that my thinking is “cute” – UNLESS I’m thinking about them. Ugh my brain hurts. I just let in a feeling and I almost cried. okay, so this thinking is avoiding feelings. crap. i dont wanna feel it! it feels bad and sad. and low low low. I feel heavy and weighed down. I feel unenthusiastic and judgmental and restless and wanting. I feel sad and resentment and ruffles in my heart. I feel nose sniffles and cold tear tracks on my face. I hear sounds outside my apartment and they feel good. I love the sounds of life around my apartment. I LOVE this apartment. I love living downtown. I love the memory of the misty darkness last night as I walked around – everything looking magical. History and now all in one night, glistening lights, sleeping town. I feel worn out – my head feels numb. my heart feels hurt and wounded and open and bleeding. I feel my brain wanting to come to the rescue and hold my heart and cover it up – protect it and comfort it. I feel grateful to my head for wanting to do that. But I don’t like bandaids cause things don’t heal quite right, so I want to let my heart feel this achiness without unnecessary support from my head. I felt my heart tighten. Okay, I want my heart to feel safe and supported, And now it feels safe and supported. I see images in m head taking me down analytical alleys but I’m staying here, I won’t go. I am here with my computer in my apartment with my cold feet and sniffly nose, and noisy street. bus sounds. I feel peaceful and loving gratitude for my family that I will see tonight. and all the abundance in my life and the men who feel good and fun. I feel grateful for the love coming my way. I feel anticipation. I feel a strong desire for an easy loving relationship with a man in which i can share and receive love. I feel ready to receive it. My heart is completely open, ready to receive a wonderful happy passionate fun peaceful relationship with a man.

  14.  #14Tracy on October 14, 2009 at 10:40 am

    I feel good and excited about life….i feel energized….i feel content…Hugs

  15.  #15gina on October 14, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    another thing I’m pretty sure I learned, but maybe it’s only how I feel because i didn’t get the “result” I wanted. But I am not interested in giving a guy “love” when we’re just dating. I wonder if this is incorrect. For instance, I regret saying “i miss you.” and I regret all the little xoxo’s i sent in texts. maybe a couple were in response to love he was giving me, and that felt fine, but there were a couple of times when i was reaching out to make him feel better, and I see now that “giving love back” is only appropriate in DIRECT response to love given. If I give love of my own initiative, it is leaning forward, not giving back. I see it as leaning forward now. I feel very grateful for that lesson.

  16.  #16gina on October 14, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    sort of sucks because i have loved giving love. In the past there was a guy I felt comfortable LOVING cause I sensed that he loved me. but he never really gave it all to me, and I was actually glad. I felt comfortable knowing it was there, and I felt comfortable being all creative about sex and love with him. I sometimes was amazed that he didn’t seem to completely appreciate the love that I was lavishing him with – he was distant. But I didn’t mind cause I didn’t want a real relationship with him – I was glad that he was passive. I was glad that I didn’t feel any pressure to to receive anything I didn’t want or give anything i didn’t want. I felt zero pressure, and I felt free. I was completely in Lust with him, and I loved the pseudo relationship we had. After it was over, he became expressive about his love, and I wasn’t into it. We had sex one more time, and I felt so annoyed when he was “in control” – I loved playing WITH him in the past, and I liked giving to him. sometimes I wanted him to do the work- like coming to me, but when we were together, I liked to have my hands all over him, loving him. Now, six years later, he contacts me regularly, and makes it clear that wishes we could spend forever together.

    I resent that I need to lean back away from love. It feels like there’s no stopping the lean-back – I have to keep leaning away from love. As soon as I feel it, I have to lean back even more so he’ll keep coming. This feels like a harsh reality. I feel angry. I feel hatred towards men and mad about being a woman right now. I want to punch men in the face. I want to hurt and punish. I’m remembering what I said just a couple of hours ago about how ready I am for love, and now I feel SO MUCH resistance it’s making me laugh.

  17.  #17gina on October 14, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    I wonder if I could enjoy the lean back if i changed my view of “falling” in love. maybe leaning back isn’t leaning away from love, but falling into it. As soon as i receive some love, I lean back further into the unknown and when he reaches me, I lean back further so that we fall deeper and deeper in love together. If I run away, I’ll wind up deep in the unknown feeling needy and he most likely won’t feel inspired to aimlessly search for me when I’m playing tricks: calling out to him and then hiding when he shows up. then I’ll feel scared and awful being out in the unknown, abandoned. Or, if I run away to familiar territory, I’ll never get anywhere. So, falling in love by leaning back is they way to enjoy the journey.

  18.  #18gina on October 14, 2009 at 1:33 pm

    now i’m feeling gratitude to myself for getting weirded out. I don’t want to act weird in the future, but I feel gratitude that I was apparently picking up on something REAL that was off. I don’t know what it was, and I’m finally accepting that that part is none of my business. I was entertaining the idea (okay, i was obsessed with the idea) that I “blew it” with my own weirdness, but now I see that I didn’t cause the weirdness, I just reacted to it weirdly. I forgive myself, and am grateful that I will no doubt be less weird in the future. But the weirdness is and was there without a doubt. The main lesson is Trusting MYSELF. Trusting my feelings, NO MATTER WHAT!

    Daria, I feel like something is similar with that NY guy, too. Some part of you sounds scared – that’s what I hear in your texts and in your comments about it. I believe that you are scared for a reason. And he didn’t make you feel better when you expressed it. I heard you expressing fear, and then you expressed anger that he wanted to bolt rather than comfort you completely.

  19.  #19Linda on October 14, 2009 at 1:51 pm

    I did something for me… just for me. It is like riffing but I call it deleting…. I went to see the guy I had ice cream with. I had a burning question to ask and I did.

    Why would you or a man… act as you did with me and be in love with another woman the whole time?…. his answer…. well, we meaning he and I both were detoxing and it was okay. But your detox from your last guy went way faster then me and.. mine came to a screeching halt. I decided I am going to ask her to marry me bought the ring… I asked, why would you be all romantic and kissy…with me?… He said there are no rules to dating. I wished him well and hope that he gets the answer he wants…. I felt happy for him and his decision but I teared up because I long for the man I love to feel like that about me, miss me,….and come to me… be man enough to act on it. She is a lucky woman. He really loves her and I am happy to see a guy actually man up!

    I am so glad that I did not let him get physical with me, but I did feel myself just be a girl with him and receive. I know what that feels like now. He said dont hesitate to call me….I said I would not do that and would not interfere with his life at all and said good bye.

    So, I came home and had a delete session. I deleted emails from Mr Scrutiny and off removed him as a friend off my facebook. I dont want him to see what is going on in my life nor do I want be tempted to see what is going on in his. If he ever comes to me it will have to be all the way and make a huge effort to do it. I deleted the ice cream dude and two others from my phone. I got a text from dater… “Diesel Truck man… he was mad that I was not showing much interest in him… and he wished me luck in my search… i wished him the same…. It feels good to purge.

    I found today even in a warm forward giving man…. you have to listen with you heart and pay attention to everything. Even when a man is rowing the boat great… go along for the ride if you want but make sure he is gonna do it for a long time and is consistent with it. I am learning not to get to excited about anything but let it build…. Time does reveal everything.

    I want the real thing…. I am tired of waiting but will.


  20.  #20Daria on October 14, 2009 at 2:03 pm

    Gina thanks! You are right! I did feel fear! I did feel angry that he seemed to want to bolt!

    Maybe next time i would like to address that directly

    I feel scared


    I feel angry

    I know WE got that, but I never actually SAID that

    I feel so excited and amused. I was reading Rori’s eletter today about the man who hasnt called 2 weeks after sex and how to powerspeech him. I was like hmm this sounds interesting. I got about 2 paragraphs into “denise” letter until I realized


    that was my letter from last year about man who had a baby now! wow hehe

    it feels so good to look back on it now and See what was going on and how Rori was spot on lol!

    Rori you freakin Rock!


    what was so amusing last nite is i was invited over by one of my guy friends, and i felt like going so i did. We had fun, but i was driving. so at certain points he started saying stuff like “i feel so tired” and i was tired too… when he would say that I would feel anxious and like doing something (driving back) so that he would feel better, but then I didn’t feel like taking the lead so i just sat there sinking into myself… I got donuts, burritos, but it was so cool and different to wait for him to take the lead. It took us about an extra hour and a half to get back becausee i did not want to lead the “going back mission” i waited for him to lead


    It felt draining everytime i got ready to take the lead… and i realized thats one of the things i dont like when im hanging out with him, feeling drained a lil bit when he goes into taking care of himself (i feel tired, i gotta go to work, oh man blah blah) and i feel not so good

    i felt SO interested in how it felt so much better when he made the decisions

    something i read in the notes from hrystians workshop, or maybe a David Deida Way of the Superior Man book i browsed there, was that

    The feminine does not make decisions just feels and expresses, if you force the feminine to make decisions they will feel weird and confused and won’t feel happy

    ummm something like that

    well that REALLY applied to this… when i had to make the decision… (ie … we’re gonna drive off now and go back) as soon as i got ready to do that I would feel masculine, drained, and disconnected, and ICK

    when instead I leaned back and was quiet and just sat there and felt… and expressed… i felt safe and good and pretty and happy

    this was HUGE because I was so used to making the (small) decisions with this guy friend of mine, and apparently he was too, and I would wind up feeling a little drained…

    well i DIDNT feel that way tonite

    although I did feel sad and resentful that i didnt see him checking on me from the window when i walked out to my car… and he decided not to walk me because he was already in bed… which i felt ok with but i said well you can watch me from the window… and i didnt see him there and it felt a lil bit scary

    not for my strong masculine self, but for my vulnerable feminine self

    i felt resentful of having to feel scared

  21.  #21gina on October 14, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    wow Linda, I can’t believe he went from kissing you to asking her to marry him. I feel angry about that, but I guess he’s right – there are no rules. I feel glad that you got the inside scoop, and that you are walking away mostly inspired by the experience. and, yes, it’s true, there seems to be nothing to get excited about at all. there will never be a way to guarantee that a man will behave in ways that feel good forever, so I can only rely on myself. That’s definitely one reason to love myself more than any guy.

  22.  #22Daria on October 14, 2009 at 2:12 pm

    also sometimes i felt Anxious and drained when he would start telling a “off the wall” story as he so often does… at this point in the past i would put him down in a funny way or seomting

    i realized it feels icky at that point and the phrase “verbal diarhea” passed through my head which feels DISGUSTING TO ME


    anyway I tried to listen at level 2 and it seemed like he would stop giving out that feeling when i got “there” with him

    that was cool

    also i smoked for the first time in like 2 months and it felt cool to be in my body and feelings more even so.

    I felt vibration in my chest like a twinged string and like a big hot ball of fire about the size of a soccer ball was in my lower back,

    I felt hot eyes. I felt that the people looking at me were judging me (paranoia) but I was also way more into my feelings and actually realized that that was probably not the case.

    I was able to relax and dance on my chair and I realized that

    I want to OWN being smoked if i smoked

    I mean, if i drink, and im feeling tipsy, then I FEEL TIPSY and this is ok… and other people may or most likely will NOT judge me because I’m tipsy and I drank

    similarly with smoking

    i MADE the decision to smoke, so therefore, it’s ok for me to be Smoked even if other people notice it. I mean for one they probably smoke themselves. and for 2 I made that decision, meaning it was not shameful to ME so why would i assume they would think its shameful instead of just

    it jsut IS


    that helped a lot, i still noticed i would get tense and tight in the side towards other people when i thought they were judging me… but overall my experience was much more grounded and loving of myself

    i also felt uncomfortably sleepy and i did not feel comfy too much thinking about going home to my parents…

    i did in the end and ironically my mom came and asked me why is my door locked was i smoking (i wasnt) lol

    anyways i like not smoking more than smoking

    smoking is like drinking two beers and feeling tipsy (and sleepy) for like 4-5 hours rather than 1 hour

  23.  #23Dan_Brodribb on October 14, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    Mary Ann,

    I don’t feel forgetting details is the same as not listening. My sweetie forgets a lot of details, but I love the way she listens. Sometimes I think that’s why she doesn’t worry about details–her heart is so open to what is going on NOW, she lets go of what she heard in the past or expects to hear in the future.

    Forgetful or not, she is easily one of the best listeners I know.


  24.  #24Daria on October 14, 2009 at 2:20 pm

    Linda deleting them at this point sounds like it feels GREAT! It sounds like your life is freeing up and you are looking forward Through the Window. I just feel so clear and so much beautiful space opening up for new fresh men

    Gina I LOVE WHAT y’ou wrote about
    ” I am here with my computer in my apartment with my cold feet and sniffly nose, and noisy street. bus sounds. I feel peaceful and loving gratitude for my family that I will see tonight. and all the abundance in my life and the men who feel good and fun. I feel grateful for the love coming my way. I feel anticipation. I feel a strong desire for an easy loving relationship with a man in which i can share and receive love. I feel ready to receive it. My heart is completely open, ready to receive a wonderful happy passionate fun peaceful relationship with a man”

    as soon as you wrote about sniffly nose, cold feet and BUS SOUNDS!11 its like I wanted to BE THere with you, to experience that WITH YOU. I felt FASCINATED!!! the energy felt soooo intriguing and from there it continued feeling peaceful and good, SO AWESOME

    if a man feels this intrigued when we are feeling in the moment wow. I felt like I WANTED TO BE THERE and hear bus sounds too… it was CRAZY

  25.  #25Daria on October 14, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    not even like i wanted to hear bus sounds, too, just like what you were experiencing sounded so awesome i felt a little jealous (or maybe not quite). I just wanted to EXPERIENCE that, it’s hard to describe but i kind of DID experience it when you said it and i wanted MORE MORE of your experience

    I must have felt like incredibly attracted like i wanted to BE in your body or soemthing

  26.  #26gina on October 14, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    Daria, I hear what you’re saying about smoking. for some reason i feel SO guilty and ashamed and BAD when i smoke. but then there are some things about it that I just love – the intensity and depth of feeling. I dunno – I feel such a spectrum of good and bad, I’m not sure that it’s worth it.

  27.  #27gina on October 14, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    Wow Daria, i feel desired!! Lol, thanks. it felt really good to hear that my in-the-moment experience resonated so well. Thank you!!!

  28.  #28Daria on October 14, 2009 at 2:30 pm

    yes Gina I agree. For me the bad feelings come from not being honest with my parents about smoking.

    Deciding that I OWN my smokedness… that is that I made this decision and i LOVE myself and my decisions even in front of other people helped me yesterday

    but i did not feel ready to own it with my parents… i feel worried it would lead to a big fight, although part of me realizes taht it would actually be ok anyway

    anyway i dont really smoke, i hadnt smoked in 2 months and i dont want to smoke regularly anymore either, because i dont want to have the feeling for 5 hours while im going about my day doing other stuff because 1 i feel too sleepy and 2 i might need to see my parents in that time period and 3 i feel scared of getting in legal trouble when i see the police

  29.  #29Daria on October 14, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    i mean in that bar last nite, when i felt the “judged” feelings when i saw others i realized the absurdity. in a bar in BERKELEY (hippy town central) it was likely that 100% of the people in that bar smoked. So why would they judge ME for smoking… they wouldn’t it was my own trigger

  30.  #30gina on October 14, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    yes, i agree that the bad feelings come from feeling like I have to hide feeling high. It feels bad cause it’s illegal and not always socially acceptable. I rarely smoke, and when I do, I make a conscious decision to enjoy the experience. I totally know what you mean by “own it.” sometimes i don’t know what to make of the intense feelings that I have. sometimes I feel suddenly very strong about people or situations, and then later i find that the “high” was right – but then I wonder if I manifested it with the high, or if i detected it. any thoughts?

  31.  #31Daria on October 14, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    Gina. yes. both. that is I feel like i both intuited and manifested

    the way i practiced Owning it was like: I Accept myself smoking…

    therefore I choose to accept myself Feeling like i smoked

    (kind of a duh but hey)

    the socially acceptable thing is i think Overprojected by me… because in berkeley at least smoking is pretty socially acceptable, but I in the past chose to think of it as not

    so with the intensity from smoking, all these feelings feel stronger

    me feeling judged by people in general, feels Stronger when smoking, etc… same with me feeling afraid of being attacked by my parents, harassed by police, etc

  32.  #32Daria on October 14, 2009 at 2:44 pm

    I intuit energy from others ( + intensity from smokking) and emit my own energy out (+ intensity) manifesting

  33.  #33Flipper on October 14, 2009 at 3:33 pm

    Gina, I loved how you described ‘falling’ in love

    “maybe leaning back isn’t leaning away from love, but falling into it. As soon as i receive some love, I lean back further into the unknown and when he reaches me, I lean back further so that we fall deeper and deeper in love together.”

    (For me, this is the umpteenth of your brilliant insights. It’s as if you’re describing in a very clear and feel-along way stuff that I and probably many others are dealing with , and then you add a twist or a link so that it’s all tied together perfectly – finding that elusive last little bit of the puzzle.)

    Brave, knows what’s not good for her Linda.

  34.  #34gina on October 14, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    thank you Flipper! especially coming from such a wise woman, I feel honored by this compliment!

  35.  #35tinque on October 14, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    Linda – your entire posting at 1:51 moved me SO deeply. There isn’t anything to pull our as a quote. The whole thing was just…BEAUTIFUL. You are awesome.

  36.  #36gina on October 14, 2009 at 4:46 pm

    I finally rejoined, and I had 5 emails waiting for me, and I felt intrigued by 4 of the 5 and I feel good about the messages I sent back. yay! I feel good and excited.

  37.  #37Daria on October 14, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    I’m feeling not really attracted by men pulling my energy towards them!

  38.  #38Daria on October 14, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    I just tried listenin at level 2 with my cat! he instantly came over !!

  39.  #39gina on October 14, 2009 at 5:53 pm

    I just went jogging and I feel good. Jogging plus rejoining and the two letters I sent for True Beauty today has inspired the feeling of accomplishment I desired. Thank you universe!

  40.  #40heartbeat on October 14, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    I feel brave and resolute. I feel strangely energetic, and powerful at the thought of running around in Autumn leaves, stomping on them and taking in all the colours.

    My sister is dying. She’s fought for many months now. I felt shocked and confused earlier, my brain was spinning. I felt waves of sadness and anger and sorrow and love. I just lay in silence looking at the pictures on the tv. Somewhere in the silence I noticed all the sounds of the river. It felt wondrous just to lie there noticing the sheer volume of the sound. I’ve never noticed that before.

    My man is off my radar – WAY off. I feel like a pioneer strengthening my foundations. Thank you, Body, for sending me shingles last week, and now a nasty cold, to keep me horizontal and still long enough to contemplate Support in my life.

    I’ve never understood ‘support’ for me, I’ve feared feeling overwhelmed. I feel longing for support, and that doesn’t feel good. I don’t want to feel like that.

    So here I am, feeling free and also nervous (will my bravery last?). I appreciate my man calling me when I let him know my news (I’m sick, or, my sister is dying) – but I don’t want the feelings of anger I get afterwards (why do I get them AFTERWARDS??) when I realise I don’t want a man on the end of the phone (who lives 10mins drive away), I want to feel big strong arms around me, in person, outside our regular ‘routine’. I don’t want to feel angry and abandoned when I have a relapse, and I’m feeling lonely and hungry, and be told ‘well send your son to the shop then’. I felt speechless. SPEECHLESS.

    I don’t want to dwell on it any longer. I feel heavy just thinking about it. He has his issues, he’s not getting much work at the moment. I don’t want to pine for support. I can feel him trying his best to do the right thing, and that feels uncomfortable, like I’ve accidently press-ganged him into supporting me. I feel nervous and insecure around him.

    I don’t want to feel all my feelings around my sister just yet. I acknowledge them, though. Hello fear, hello loss, hello pain. I feel nurturing of myself so I feel supported. I want to spend time with my friends and do things that fill up my emotional bank account so i can focus my energy where it is needed most. I feel safe taking care of myself and being a kind of Leader for myself. I don’t know how all this will read. I’ll just post and see.

  41.  #41tinque on October 14, 2009 at 6:12 pm

    Sweet Heartbeat – I feel you. my heart is with you. I send you love.

  42.  #42heartbeat on October 14, 2009 at 6:20 pm

    I don’t feel like making a speech. I do feel like making a speech. I don’t like my thoughts interfering with my feelings.

    I feel good thinking of making a list of experiences to deposit in my emotional bank account.

    I feel dread when a thought comes up that says ‘you’re avoiding the relationship issue’. Like I’m a failure.

    I feel a big argument going on in me. Another thought says ‘but you know from past experience that when you get into doing stuff you love, it clears away all that resentment and everything gets better’.

    Ok – I’ll try this – I love my fear and dread. I feel compassion. I feel like a little girl. I feel like a kind aunty with a bag of sweets.

    I have made speeches. I’m good at them. I’m crap at them. I’m good at them etc etc bla bla

    I feel a strong centre that’s saying ‘you’ll deal with it in the moment, you always do best when you wing it’

    I feel it all fading away when I remember what’s to come.

    My throat hurts and my nose is streaming. I feel tired and hurting inside. My eyes feel hot. and teary

  43.  #43heartbeat on October 14, 2009 at 6:23 pm

    Tinque thank you, I feel your love XXXX

  44.  #44tinque on October 14, 2009 at 6:24 pm

    Love you Heartbeat…

  45.  #45heartbeat on October 14, 2009 at 6:28 pm

    I feel like a bird circling round grief. I don’t mean to avoid it. I want to prepare. I want to support my family. And I feel really scared of that. I also feel a kind of honour in that role, like I’m on a quest to explore beyond my usual feelings. I feel very vulnerable too.

  46.  #46heartbeat on October 14, 2009 at 6:35 pm

    Tinque, love you too – I appreciate your warm words, and also your input, especially since you are in a long relationship xxxx

    I feel inspired in following my process by so many of you Sirens, following my feelings and learning to express them here feels immensely valuable. I appreciate Daria putting so much of herself out there, to name but one. Reading your conversations I learn so much. Thank you xxxx

    Thank you all Sirens and Queen Siren Rori xxxx

  47.  #47tinque on October 14, 2009 at 6:52 pm

    Heartbeat – Know that you man is doing the best he can in every moment as we all are. Sometimes we wish for more. I feel sad that he’s not able to hold you as you ache to be held during this scary, painful time. Tell him you feel afraid. Tell him you hurt. Tell him you miss him right now.
    This is NOT leaning forward.This is being authentic, for this is what you are saying here, to us.

  48.  #48heartbeat on October 14, 2009 at 7:00 pm

    So I’m reading through my posts and noticing a few new things, like feeling surprised at the amount of deliberation over making a speech or not. That feels in my head.

    And I’m feeling surprised at how safe i feel supporting myself, and that feels sad in some ways and brave in other ways. I notice how often the word brave is coming up for me. That feels like my boy energy. And that feels more comfortable.

    I also notice my uncomfortable feelings when I read my thank you thank you post. Like I have to thank everyone and feel worried in case anyone feels left out. And what comes up for me is that at some point, a long long time ago, I confused ‘praise’ with ‘support’. And that feels very true and very very sad.

    Even so i feel thankful to have this private space to process my issues around support.

  49.  #49heartbeat on October 14, 2009 at 7:10 pm

    Tinque – wow – yes, I feel deeply affirmed, thank you! I think I’m moving in the right direction. I did say most of those things – but I always tend to feel I get things wrong, so hearing that from you feels really really good. xxxx

    Further insight regarding support – I realise I’ve not often asked for advice on here and that links in with some old belief that I won’t get what I ask for. in fact, I remember being taught ‘Ask doesn’t get’. And here I am getting lovely support. Thank you.

    I feel tongue-tied asking in ‘real life’ though my tongue is getting untangled. I feel embarrassed admitting that.

  50.  #50heartbeat on October 14, 2009 at 7:14 pm

    I need to sink into my soup now. I feel safe. And brave.

  51.  #51Tracy on October 14, 2009 at 8:19 pm

    Heartbeat….Hang in there….I feel supportive over what you are going through.I am sending you a big hug….I feel bravery and courage inyour words….hang in there…hugs!

  52.  #52heartbeat on October 14, 2009 at 8:28 pm

    Thank you, Tracy, hugs feel good xxxx

  53.  #53Tracy on October 14, 2009 at 8:34 pm

    Your post was amazing….it answered all my questions and i felt as though your words were speaking right at me…
    I have felt anger and betrayal for my past relationship and especially for the fact that i didn’t get the ring…only the friendship and the call to remind me of what a great friend i was….
    I felt the exact way you mentioned and i feel awed by the courage in which you handled the matter…
    I feel that my experience in relationships just defines what i have believed to be the meaning of love….and that is that i had to be nice and provide in order to receive attention…
    I did the same with my own family and the result is the same….the ring/reward and attention fell on someone else…I realize that the reason i feel bad is because i neglect myself to make others happy instead of the other way round…..
    I finally got the chance to i make it good with my family…i am learning to let go and focus on myself and my happiness and its working and i am feeling more love from them than i did before…I feel much better…
    The post you wrote made it clear for me and i feel more assured about what i am doing…..
    I felt resistance to letting go of my past relationships and always hoped that with the last one that the guy would change his mind but i now see that the ring is just a last result of a plan set up way before…
    I don’t want to feel that anymore…..feeling stuck as rori put’s it…and as though my happiness depended on a decision made by someone else..
    that makes me feel clingy and needy and pathetic..
    Today, i start with feeling happy that i can feel my sadness and loneliness and abit of confusion…and i will feel better and better as the day goes by…

  54.  #54alias girl on October 14, 2009 at 8:51 pm

    heartbeat i send you goodness and a feeling of being supported.i can not imagine the feelings that would come up for me if i were to know i was losing someone i cared for.

  55.  #55alias girl on October 14, 2009 at 8:58 pm

    i feel tired of listening to people i don’t feel genuinely interested in. i did that my whole life and i just felt used. i felt alone before and i feel alone now in this world. but i feel less alone now because i feel i have a relationship with myself. and to me that is goddessness.

    so i feel good to turn away from people i don’t want to listen to because i am not genuinely doing them or myself any good.

    i just talked to karaoke guy. or rather i just listened to karaoke guy on the phone. no way i am going on a date with him.i felt ick.

    i just got out of church. and my prayer is to be a person with plenty of loving relationships and friendships in my life. and i needn’t worry about HOW that is going to happen because well i don’t know how it would. i have no idea. especially if i am no longer pretending to listen to people i don’t want to hear talk. but god promises it can happen. i have my WHAT. my what is the plentitude of loving relationships.

    the how will be a miraculous surprise that comes in a pleasing fun healthy loving way. thank you.

  56.  #56Daria on October 14, 2009 at 9:12 pm

    Hugs Heartbeat

  57.  #57Daria on October 14, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    support to heartbeat

  58.  #58Ann on October 14, 2009 at 10:41 pm

    Hugs Heartbeat

  59.  #59nikita on October 14, 2009 at 10:43 pm


    ” A closed mouth don’t get fed”


    xoxo nikita

  60.  #60heartbeat on October 15, 2009 at 12:27 am

    Nikita I love that – and it’s true! I’m replacing my old belief with the new. Thank you.

    I feel very safe to open up to myself supported by a warm circle of sirens.

  61.  #61Flipper on October 15, 2009 at 2:19 am

    Heartbeat, I feel panic and shame and freezing up that I can’t make things better. I feel hope that the good waves in my mess will still somehow make it to you and rock you gently with my caring, hugs.

  62.  #62alias girl on October 15, 2009 at 2:29 am

    flipper i felt freezing up too. thank you for putting words to that. i felt helpless. but supportive and caring also.

  63.  #63heartbeat on October 15, 2009 at 4:09 am

    Flipper & Alias Girl I feel your warm caring waves. xxxx

  64.  #64heartbeat on October 15, 2009 at 4:35 am

    I feel curious as to how I support myself. Emotionally. Support feels like a triangle – I support others, they support me, I support myself. Not necessarily in that order. I feel like an explorer.

    I support myself financially and practically. I feel kinder to myself than I used to. Like today – I really miss teaching my group, but I let myself stay at home and care for my health. Another day my support for myself might mean deciding to go in because it fills my emotional bank account and gives to others’ too.

    Tinque’s comment really helped me – I felt awakened from a bad dream. I get really scared when my man is depressed.

    And today my man has become an Archangel. He asked me last night to let him know how I am today. Usually I feel wary and have an argument with myself about texting other than in response, but something shifted last night when I heard that river sound and later when I posted on here. My fear and negative expectations just dissolved. I just did what he asked. It was that simple.

    And he called me back, and even though I said I don’t want you to catch this cold off me, he’s coming over later anyway and ‘could I let him know if I need anything’ . I feel cherished.

    I’m reading back over this comment and it seems kind of obvious, trivial even, on the outside… but feels like a massive shift, like soft lights and love and kindness. Things have been really off for a while.

    I feel excited to share my proof that following feelings, connecting with senses, letting go and being real – all my own work – really results in amazing change.

    I feel a soft sadness for my sister.

  65.  #65Heather on October 15, 2009 at 4:38 am

    my heart goes out to you, it must feel very sad to watch your sister dying. And to be experiencing shingles and a cold on top of that. ((((heartbeat hug))))

    i’m am also very inspired by reading your process, with a man who seems to be trying but maybe not quite enough – tinque gives such good advice too. Maybe your man is doing the best he can by just calling, and maybe if you expressed to him what you expressed here on the forum, he would ‘get it’. It is always such a relief (to me at least) when I ask for something that I need, but was afraid to say.

    i was feeling a surge of inspiration yesterday, kind of like a fresh start and direction for life. I haven’t purged anything, just felt an opening of inviting new opportunities in. it feels like some things will be happening soon.

  66.  #66heartbeat on October 15, 2009 at 4:40 am

    “All my own work” – I mean my inner work, learning from Rori and Siren Island.

    Not trying to negotiate, change or demand particular outcomes.

    I’ll be listening to the river a lot from now on. It feels like my symbol or totem to accompany me.

  67.  #67heartbeat on October 15, 2009 at 4:43 am

    Heather thank you – a big hug feels good and I feel glad my process is an inspiration. xxxx

  68.  #68heartbeat on October 15, 2009 at 4:54 am

    I really struggle ‘asking’ for what I want. I do manage it but it feels arduous.

    Lightbulb moment – another triangle – rescuer, victim persecutor – and some old words from way way back – ‘a REAL man would be breaking down your door’.

    But that doesn’t feel real to me, it feels judgemental. I don’t want to be judgemental.

    A real man has problems and insecurities just like us.

    My inner process feels more important than trying to fix anything.

  69.  #69heartbeat on October 15, 2009 at 5:33 am

    I’ve come to my own understanding of how Byron Katie’s work dovetails with Rori’s.

    “I’m going to need a lot of support”. I don’t even need to query that statement – I go straight into FEELING pressure and threat. Like there is a LACK of support.

    I change one word almost instantly – ‘need’ to ‘get’ – “I’m going to get a lot of support” . And that feels good and reassuring. I feel amicable. And loving to others.

    I feel hungry now.

  70.  #70Simply Shannon on October 15, 2009 at 8:06 am

    I don’t have time to read all the posts today but saw the notes to Heartbeat and went back to read the post.

    Heartbeat: Hugs, prayers and support being sent your way. (((HUGS)))

  71.  #71Mercedes on October 15, 2009 at 8:36 am

    Heartbeat: “I feel like a bird circling round grief. I don’t mean to avoid it. I want to prepare. I want to support my family. And I feel really scared of that. I also feel a kind of honour in that role, like I’m on a quest to explore beyond my usual feelings. I feel very vulnerable too.”

    I’ve been in this place too…but could never have worded it so beautifully. My heart goes out to you right now. Lots of love and support.

    Much Love,

  72.  #72DocK on October 15, 2009 at 9:38 am

    Hi Heartbeat

    I feel sad hearing what you are going through. I am joining with everyone here to send loving and supportive energy towards you.

  73.  #73heartbeat on October 15, 2009 at 9:53 am

    Shannon, Mercedes & Dock – I feel very loved as a human being – thank you all for your words of support.

    Everyone’s support feels very real. Real real, real women, not just names on a blog – I can picture you all and feel like I can reach out and almost touch you. I feel uncovered, in a good way, like I’m sitting in a fountain circled by women from all over the world. I feel new and the water is washing away – I don’t know what – I just feel cleansed. xxxx

  74.  #74Tina on October 15, 2009 at 9:59 am

    Daria, thanks for that, yous said something about, not feeling attraction for men that pull your energy towards them, thank you. Today is my birthday 43 weee, I started my period today hahaha. I got a note from “The Universe” wishing me a happy Birthday. I feel great even though I have some lower back pain. Tampon shopping later lol. I just realized last night I can sing a few Madonna songs – live to tell – beautiful stranger hehe. I have to make an appearance for my business course I PAID FOR! LOL. I still havnt fully decided whether or not I’m going on my five day coffee date.

  75.  #75Tina on October 15, 2009 at 10:14 am

    I feel alone with you heartbeat!

  76.  #76Daria on October 15, 2009 at 11:58 am

    UGH I feel upset. The two restaurants i paid in LA, which I felt bad about anyway because there were mostly men at the table.

    One charged me an extra 10 bucks and one charged me an extra 2 bucks.


    Message is don’t pay with men at the table? i feel tight across my back and furrowed forehead and I love my feelings. I feel upset. I love my upsetness

  77.  #77Daria on October 15, 2009 at 11:59 am

    the other women at the table got their meals paid for

    both times

    i dono how i fell into this pattern
    maybe from the past

    i cried the second time

  78.  #78alias girl on October 15, 2009 at 12:08 pm

    so i did this exercise rori mentions of looking at myself in a mirror and being ‘over there’ and having compaasion and just taking myself in as if what i was “listening” to was someone else. it was a different (kinder. more fun and gentle) way of being with myself. i actually liked that person over there. she seemed interesting and good heartedand kind of cute.

    normally i look in the mirror i scrutinize and judge what i see.

    if i can hold my attention on respect, compassion, appreciation and allowing during my day i imagine i will experience a very nice time.

    last night i was on my dating site and some guy’s profile had a picture of a woman and the caption over the picture said that was the bodytype he was looking for in a woman. and i immediately went into judgement. saying outloud ‘are you kidding me? what a douche!”

    and then i immediately took it back. i felt my judgement was uncalled for and people like what they like and he is just being upfront about it and anyway why should it even affect me????! so i felt good that i immediately reversed on that and lost my judgment about it.

  79.  #79alias girl on October 15, 2009 at 12:12 pm

    daria you are a supergoddess and those men Lost Their Chance to pay for your dinner!!!!

    what was the message?

  80.  #80alias girl on October 15, 2009 at 12:44 pm

    i feel thankful to find “my people”. people who love who i am just as i am and vice versa.

    both in a work environment and as friends and alos with my boyfriend (husband??? huh?)

    i feel good to be open about who i am and have that embraced. dress how i like on any given day. have my talents be put to good use and appreciated. in an environment of mutual respect and allowing.

    i feel good to have a sense of wonder and fun. i feel good for my knowingness that all my needs are met, all my dreams are coming true. i feel good to be living this life that is beyond what i imagined possible for myself. i feel good to be in a state of allowing and receiving all this wonderfulness and love and appreciation and adoration.

    thank you.

  81.  #81janjune on October 15, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    “as though my happiness depended on a decision made by someone else..”

    yes, tracy, i have felt THAT VERY THING my WHOLE LIFE and didn’t even know it until i read what you wrote.

    THAT’S been my snag. THAT’S been my point of error to myself. That’s been my whole life,…waiting for someone else to make a decision so I can to see what I *get*.

    They are in contorl, i’m just peripheral, not even necessary, kind of a bother really….”what do YOU want?” …”I GAVE you _________________, this is what you get,…it’s more than you deserve really,… quit bothering me…”
    I am totally SICK of it.
    I feel so pissed off. Like kicking something. Over and over, not just once. i’d like to get up and put my foot through the door i’m so mad at the way i’ve been treated in the past, and LET it BE that way. Oh shit, i’m mad at myself now. what the fck was the matter with me? why the dammed hell did i think so little of myself that I would go for years, trailing along behind taking CRUMBS????????? Crumbs., that’s all I’ve gotten. Period. Crumbs. Crumbs. i’ll take a crumb just dont ask me to do anything, don’t ask me to do anything for myself. i can’t do it. just give me the least amount possible that will allow me to hang on to YOUR life without stepping up and making one of my own. i’m too afraid. i KNOW i’m a failure. so just let me hang on to you and drag along behind.
    that’s how i feel i’ve treated myself. no confidence. no demands. no pushing. no competing. just stand back and let everybody have what they think they want and then i’ll see what’s left over. and for G’s sake don’t offer me a chance to do anything on my own you know i can’t handle it…
    i don’t want to fight. i don’t want to compete. i don’t want to have to defend. i want to sit back and see what’s left over so i don’t have to exert myself and then LOSE. i dont want to say i want this and then lose. it makes me feel like even MORE of a loser. it makes me feel so less than. so i just chose feeling less than to begin with and then i dont have to deal with it over and over again, thinking that other people think im less than.
    but what the hell do i care what they think. that’s not *my* world. that’s not *my* reality. i can have my own dam reality. dammit. what the MF hell, where has my head been and why has it been there. I’m getting a glimpse that it’s not even ABOUT them. No not at all. i can have the reality *I* want to provide myself. for myself. provided BY me. i don’tt understand it yet, but i feel knowing deep inside of a new idea that it’s not even ABOUT any one else, not FIRST. FIRST— (yes yes) first it’s about me being good good good to ME! Believing me, believing in me, loving me, trusting me, pampering me, taking care of me, SEEING TO IT THAT I GET WHAT I NEED and ALSO WHAT I WANT, ME taking charge, ME making room for me in the world… not waiting for someone else to do it– waiting for someone else to think enough of me to do it for me. that’s little girl. i’m not little girl. i dont like someone treating me like little girl. i need to be stepping up for MYSELF. wooooohooo!!! making plans for mySELF. Taking care of mySELF by none other than me my SELF!! making plans to get what i need, so no one else has to do it for me, making me too dependent on them, making me wait for their decisions to see what i’m going to “GET”. Ha!
    i’ve allowed being put in positions where it was my duty to take care of others’ feelings. Period. It was my JOB. it was the only thing that gave me WORTH. i surely did not count for anything other than being in the way. not only did they not need anything else from me, they didn’t WANT anything I had to offer. they had everything they needed and it was made clear the ONLY reason I was being kept around was for this one particular thing, caring for, indulging their wants wishes desires. i was of no other use to them… to attend to their silent or spoken demand of “i want this”. “I need that”. Shit, give it a brreak will you.
    In order to do that I had to negate mine. leave my feelings wants wishes desires out in exchange for being “taken care of”–HAH!! because I couldn’t do it on my own. well, why not? why couldnt I? because id been TOLD and CONVINCED i wasn’t worthy of that, convinced that i needed someone else to do that for me because i would fail because i didn’t have what it takes i could not control and operate my world i could not function i could not do what “they” do. it’s very convenient for them if they can find someone who has been trampled down enough to buy into this. That was me. I did. I bought into it.
    But i feel “ME” coming to the forefront. I feel “I don’t care what you tell me I am, I’m not that”. coming to the forefront of my consciousness. I feel “I AM confident” I feel i AM competent” “I AM desirable” I AM worthwhile, I AM worhty, I AM in control, I AM enough, more than enough and you are fortunate that I let you near me. I AM good, I AM sincere, I AM strong, I AM weak, I AM worthy worhty worthy of everything I desire and i don’t have to ( new idea) depend on someone else to provide it for me. I am NOT dependent, I am competent. I am Kick-ass, I am conscious of what I want, i will go out and at least *try* to make it happen for mySELF instead of just wallowing in believing the negativity you place on me. I don’t need anyones approval. i dont need anyones sanction i don’t need anyones review of it, i dont need anyones opinion, i dont need thier counsel, i dont need their “thoughts” on it, i dont need their perspective. i dont need their advice. i dont need their help. i dont need their wishes desires needs, hopes or hopes for THEIR future intertwined in my life or my decisions EXCEPT as serves me FIRST and THEN them…… maybe………… but then again, maybe not. Maybe i just and only want to take care of myself. i don’t know. i just know that from now on i’m taking care of me. i’m checking in with me first to see if doing for someone else takes away from me. if it does, i may not do it. i probably won’tdo it. no, i’m not going to do it. we’ll just have to find another way and if i’m not good enough to receive that consideration from them then i will ask myself what the hell i think i’m doing being with them…
    (that sounds so selfish to me, was taught that makes me a totally bad and worthless person….)
    i feel courageous because i feel i am learning Tools to behave not selfishly but SMARTLY in taking care of myself. and if it serves them as well and they want to come along and I WANT them to come along on my journey beside me, then we are in agreement and then i will go on my way taking care of MYSELF. my decision is i don’t want to feel bad about being “ME FIRST” anymore, i think i have been through enough to see and feel sure that if *I* don’t live a life of “ME FIRST” i won’t be living the life i want. if i wait for someone else to provide it, it won’t manifest. and i see that someone else may be the ‘one”that provides it– speaking in terms of being the vehicle by which it is added to my life, and yet i still have caught a good glimpse that *I* HAVE to step up for mySELF. period.
    I have to step up for the life i want and let others fall away who do not support that. i have to believe and know they are not right for me and LET THEM *GO*.
    that’s it— that’s all there is for me right now. knowing these things.

  82.  #82Daria on October 15, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    Thanks AG that is sweet. I know.

    the other girl the second time actually said…
    well im European. we don’t pay for stuff.. especially with men

    i said

    im European too. i dont’ usually pay for myself with men either

    then she said yeah i wouldve been pist too

    we had this convo in front of the guys

    i realized it would have been a chance for them to be masculine and pay for me

    but i felt unworthy

    i felt unworthy because i felt low on money. if i had millions in my checking account i would have felt MORE entitled to be paid for. because i knew it would be nothing to do it myself

    but i felt bad and so i paid

    i couldve said i dont want to pay

    i felt afraid of what would happen

    i feel glad i cried
    it felt good and i walked ahead fast and touched plants and found myself feeling better

    baby steps

    now in my account i got charged more than i wrote on my card and i got triggered again. i think the main feeling was anger with helplessness and feeling bad about myself, not good enough

    i dont have the receipt anymore

    i feel stuck and worried about calling the restaurant that they will say well you were the only card and there wasnt enuf cash or soemthing

    i dono

    i feel overwhelmed and pouty

    i feel way better than an hour ago though because i just came back from acupuncture and massage

  83.  #83Daria on October 15, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    next time i’m at a table with men i could say

    I don’t want to pay when im at a table with men

    they might say:

    wtf. haha youre funny. well too bad hunny you have to pay anyway. what century are you living in

    and that WOULD BE OK!:

    I can say

    this feels bad. i dont feel good paying at a table with men. it feels like im not being treated well

    they can say: well i dono. im not your boyfriend. i dont want to pay for you

    i can say:

    wow this feels bad. i feel horrible. i dont want to pay. what do you think we should do?

    he/they might say:

    well. i dont want you to feel bad. i think its only fair that each of us pays for what we ate dont you think?

    i can say:

    gosh well, i just feel bad. i feel bad paying with guys. and im feeling guilty and bad about myself now. i dont like feeling this way. and i dont want to pay. what do you think?

    he can say:

    well youre gonna have to pay anyway

    i can say:

    ohhh this feels horrible. im feeling really angry. i dont like feeling this way. i feel furious at you.

    he might say:

    well you can be furious all you want. i dont think its fair for you to not pay just cuz youre a girl. im gonna be at the car

    i can say:

    (i dono i feel stuck and tight in my throat lips and legs. i feel humiliated and bad)

    HELP RORI! Goddesses… what do i do say now?

  84.  #84alias girl on October 15, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    janjune you just wrote something that i didn’t even know i wanted articulated. and then there it was. and i was reading it and now i feel crying. and yes, i can take charge of my own life and create it to a life of my desires and dreams. in fact i don’t even need to be the one doing “effort in vain”. i need only know WHAT and be in the same vibration as receiving and appreciation.

    after i read what you wrote janjune I sent in my info for two jobs I didn’t think i was “good enough” for. wtf. i can have what i want. THAT IS WHY I AM HERE. for fun and creation and expansion. not to hold my breath and hope some random person that i may not even Like to decide whether or not i’ve jumped through enough hoops to deserve a crumb.

    i feel deserving. i feel deserving. i am deserving. i am deserving. just by the very nature of me being BORN makes me automatically DESERVING. thank you.

  85.  #85alias girl on October 15, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    i don’t know how to help daria. i don’t feel the same level of entitlement from all men as described. it would probably be fun if i did though so i feel happy you are sharing and maybe i will learn something. i mean the other girls felt they deserved to be paid for by random men so it’s just some block or non serving belief i have created for myself.

    i feel excited to witness your process daria. i feel scared to feel so deserving. how odd. why would I feel that way. i feel sad face.

  86.  #86Daria on October 15, 2009 at 4:00 pm

    AG i know!!!

    i felt like that was the message

    when she said taht with no issue of guilt on worry about her entitlement

    she just assumed men would pay for her and would Want to

    she was in the bathroom when this happend

    the guy that was the main person in charge was like well

    they were like “well she diner dashed”

    he said well ill pay for the hot russian chick

  87.  #87Daria on October 15, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    then we had the discussion in the car where she said

    im european, we dont pay for stuff, well not with men

    it felt like so normal when she said it… like of course not… why would a woman do that it would be like weird and rude to the men

  88.  #88Linda on October 15, 2009 at 5:25 pm

    Hi ladies

    Tinque and Tina… I am glad that I posted something that you could use for you.

    The longer I am single, the more vocal and outspoken I am becoming. I am glad that I found the courage to call my last admirer and ask my question. I feel happy that I did that. I prayed today for him and the womans heart that he loves. I hope he gets the desire of his heart. I will miss his attentions and phone calls. I felt seen by him and less alone… he was very giving positive man. I dont feel hurt minimized by the experience or his choice at all. That feels nice and warm…. It feels good to genuninely hope that for his happiness and not be focused on me and what I want so badly I feel like I grew in a great way.

    I whole heartidly agree !…I dont want to have my happiness be dependant on someone’s choosing me ! I need to be charge of that. I have given others way too much power over that in my life. A mindset change is underway.

    I was asked to go back to hospital to work today and tomorrow. I did not want to do it but they were short staffed…. I feel so much better out of that enviroment., I was dreading it.!!!…. but today people (except two close co-workers) seemed genuinely happy to see me. They were complimentary and smiling… commenting on missing me. I found today that I am respected by many. That was a great shot in the arm and heart.

    I found myself thinking about what I want today. I thought of the last three men that I had interest in and the things I liked about each. I built my own special man today in my mind….it was fun. Exquisite lover…warm giver and protector with that bit of naughty and adventureous spirit….mmmmm I put in my special order. I feel curious about him and cant wait to have him. mmmmmm

    Then I wondered if I showed up and found “Mr Scrutiny” is he would have a complete heart attack since just seeing my picture online gives him a dart shot straight in he heart. I chuckled at the thought and I was amuzed


  89.  #89janjune on October 15, 2009 at 5:59 pm

    i feel triggered today by the date i had on tuesday…. it’s taken that long to process it…. and really still didn’t have it processed until i wrote that earlier post. That’s what finally triggered me.

    i’ve been feeling my feelings churning around inside my HEAD not my heart for two days but couldn’t get a hold on them to express or feel them. they scare me.
    Didn’t and still don’t know how to sink into them they feel so icky i want to get away from them. they triggered old feelings of being worth nothing. discardable. usable. unworthy. replaceable. used. discarded. forgotten. feelings from my first boyfriend when i gave my heart and soul and everything in me to him and he told me it wasn’t enough and left. he had asked for everything i had, he NEEDED me to be more THIS or he NEEDED me to be more THAT, in order to get to keep being with him i gave it to him. i DID. I thought he cared and knew it was everything i had to give but you know what, it wasn’t enough for him. after he got it all, he looked it over and said,
    “nope. not enough. bye.”
    no sorrow, no remorse, no feelings, no stopping himself, just i want iwant iwant, nope, you’re not enough. just as casual as deciding to move to Colorado. he had things to do that didn’t involve being with me.

    i want to cry. who the hell uses PEOPLE? I feel eyes burning with tears.lump in throat. tingling in mouth. saliva. throbbing head, tingly legs. tingly jaw neck ears. fatigue in my calves. shaky hands, head aching. more tears. tears. tingly calves, numb head. deep grief. more silent tears. head throbbing again. nose blocked swollen. receding grief. tears still coming, sadness, melancholy, no energy, no desires, no wants, no wishes, no nothing.
    just Blank. not even numb, even numb has a feeling.
    Just Blank.

    anger is trying to come up but it’s no use, anger doesn’t do any good. it’s useless. i’ve tried it.
    quitting doesn’t work because life goes on.
    i am tired of this. tired of feeling this way.

    i couldn’t sleep very well for the past two nights.
    i feel pissed at him (the recent date) or at me.
    i feel angry that he kept mentioning sexual stuff.
    We were together for 7 hours. We met for lunch at 1:00, then the movie didn’t start until 4:15, then he asked if i wanted dinner. I said no thanks. We headed back to my car, he stopped at a starbuck’s, no i didn’t want hot chocolate or a muffin or a coffee.
    i didn’t want anything from him.
    I got water.

    we were both tired of playing–him playing like he was interested in anything besides sex and me playing like i was still enjoying being there.
    he still wanted a kiss.

    i don’t dislike him— actually sort of enjoy his company, his confidence, especially the way he steps back and let’s me rearrange my Girl Hat when i’ve dropped it or am being clumsy trying to get my Boy Hat off. he does that even when we’re talking on the phone. it makes me smile now thinking about it because i can feel how he does it.
    He actually takes an energetic step backwards, actually OUT of my energetic space but i dont feel him leaving ME, he’s just stepping out of my space giving me the room i need. he’s very good at sensing that,…just waiting until i get done doing my thing. It feels like he’s patiently *waiting* for me. Then he pauses, it feels like he’s taking a “read” on me, and then steps forward into my energy sphere again and we proceed together with my Girl Hat on my head. it’s cool really.
    now i remember that my ex-fiance used to do that, step back out of my energy when he sensed i needed room.

    Really right now that’s the only thing I can think of that I like about him, but i like it alot.
    plus he doesn’t appear to be stingy about paying for things for us.
    plus i kind of like his appearance.
    plus i like his confidence although i could tell he was very tense and nervous when i came into the restaurant. he looked like a deer in headlights. it was kind of cute really. made me smile…

    But really it’s just crumbs. Crumbs. More crumbs…..
    there needs to be more.
    alot more.
    He would need to see me as a person first, not primarily as someone to potentially gratify him sexually.
    And he’d have to actually LIKE it that way and be more than okay with it, actually support it.
    he’s got it backwards right now.

    Anyway over the course of the date we kissed— three little ones (mouth closed) he didn’t try to make out with me except a tiny bit twice but when i didn’t respond he quit.
    He told me twice that our dates are the best he’s had. thankuRori!
    He told me he really likes me four or five times.
    but i don’t know if he just meant he liked me well enough to have sex with me.–he’d ALLOW me to satisfy his sexual needs. pffftt! bc he talked about sex so Much.

    he asked when did i want to go out again?
    i said, i don’t know, let’s let this one settle first…see how we feel.

    i felt like we both had some decisions to make.
    him–is he willing to lay off the sex thing?– OR
    me–am i willing to put up with it?
    Me? the answer is no. his answer may be No as well.
    But I think his p*n*s is overriding his brain.

    he left kind of grumbly and ungallantly. *TOLD* me how to get out to the interstate (I’d driven 1/3 of the way to meet him, didn’t want him coming to my house and wanted my own car for the date. he’d driven the 120 mile round trip for our first date). So I spoke up and said, “No, I don’t think I can find it”. Plus it was dark and raining.
    He said, “Well, I’ll drive to _____ , and when I turn right, you go left and that road will take you out to the Interstate.”
    I had no choice.
    But as it ended up, he ended up driving all the way out to the Interstate then backtracked his way home. Then about four minuites later, he called to see if i was doing alright and told me “Call me when you make it home, okay?”
    I did. he didn’t seem to want to talk. sounded kind of grouchy a little bit, like he had nothing to say and didn’t want to talk.

    for me, maybe the date was just to trigger old feelings of feeling used and discarded by men when they want everything you’ve got, want to give you a few paltry crumbs and then move on fortified by all your *stuff* without a backwards glance or a thought of how YOU might be feeling.
    having no say.
    betrayal of trust.
    all those issues.
    i don’t know why being with this man triggered all that in me.

  90.  #90janjune on October 15, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    alias girl-
    i feel synergistic that you got the info for those jobs you want.

    i feel encouraged by your words:
    “wtf. i can have what i want. THAT IS WHY I AM HERE. for fun and creation and expansion. not to hold my breath and hope some random person that i may not even Like to decide whether or not i’ve jumped through enough hoops to deserve a crumb.
    i feel deserving. i feel deserving. i am deserving.”


  91.  #91alias girl on October 15, 2009 at 6:38 pm

    just like at that conecert i went to. i am going to SHOW UP with my desire and expect my miracles.

    because i don’t have superior personal references. i may not have a great recommendation from my last boss (ya think?) and i don’t have a clear idea what would make me happy and i don’t have the right kind of background for the jobs i am applying for.

    i feel inadequate. i feel out of place. i feel alone in the world.

    but i am not alone. i am adequate. and i ahve a very special place in this world designed for me and me alone. NO ONE ELSE CAN FILL MY SHOES.

    so i am here, expecting my miracle and knowing it will come. thank you.

  92.  #92alias girl on October 15, 2009 at 6:40 pm

    hi yes hello. my name is alias girl. (she reaches out her hand) yes i am applying for position of pop star and fashionista. yes my background is in mind numbing cubicle work.

    what do you think?

  93.  #93janjune on October 15, 2009 at 6:43 pm

    you know how when you KNOW a man is going to pay for your meal, like when your boss takes you out to lunch or you are with your family with your dad…you just kind of gather your things together and make your way toward the door and stand there waiting for him while he “takes care of it”?
    i wonder if that would work in these situations…
    It’s not quite as *demanding* as going and hiding out in the bathroom….,i mean you’re still making yourself AVAILABLE if someone wants to be the dork and come over and ask a woman for money….
    just a thought….

  94.  #94alias girl on October 15, 2009 at 7:30 pm

    i sorta felt the woman hid in the bathroom too. thus taking rather than receiving. but i wasn’t there and i’m not her so this is only speculation of a complete stranger’s motives.

    i don’t really want to be the goddess hanging out in the bathroom for more than a normal amount of time at bill time so i can avoid paying.

  95.  #95alias girl on October 15, 2009 at 7:32 pm

    but i do want to be the godess that people love to help and do stuff for and be around because she has such a good spirit people love to do things for her.

    that’s the environment i want to be in for my new upcoming adventures. people who “get” me and appreciate who i am Being.

  96.  #96janjune on October 15, 2009 at 7:37 pm

    “i don’t know why being with this man triggered all that in me.”

    i went back and read my posts and do see why this man i
    1. hardly know
    2. have no real feeling for
    triggered such an enormous avalanche of feeling in me.


  97.  #97gina on October 15, 2009 at 8:17 pm

    I’m happy to report that I have 2 dates over the next two days. Plus I may or may not see Johnny on Sunday, and even if I don’t, I have a fun adventure planned for which I am excited!!! Sunday morning a friend and I are having brunch, then we’re walking to the train station to take a train to Dallas (the train is pretty cool, but people don’t use it much – super fun!!) then, it would be swell if Johnny would pick us up, but if he doesn’t, we will take a bus to our exciting destination, which will be the grand opening of a huge Performing Arts Center. If Johnny does come, that will be great – and if all goes well, I will be happy to share with him that I LOVE trains, and I would feel great to take the train to come see him if he was waiting for me at the station (I wouldn’t come visit him before because I HATED driving to him. I never even thought of the train – I wouldn’t feel good to take the train and then wait for him at the station, but it would feel great to relax on the train and find him waiting for me.). If he doesn’t come, that will be perfectly fine – I look forward to meeting interesting people at this event! BTW, he said he did say he is coming.

    About these other dates – happy hour tomorrow, coffee on Saturday. I had a majorly awkward moment trying to make this coffee date happen. This was our first conversation and it was going very well. I told him that it was fun chatting with him and that I needed to go cause I’m going for a jog. Then he said that he would call me later, and then I tried to tell him that it doesn’t sound like much fun for me to keep talking to a stranger: I’d like to meet in person. But I couldn’t find the words and I suddenly was nervously tangling myself up in the conversation! I’m glad it happened – I definitely learned from it. Next time I’ll say something like “Now that we’ve met on the phone, it would feel good to meet in person.” If I need to say more, I’ll say “I don’t feel good getting to know you by phone. This initial conversation has felt really good, but now I feel like I need to meet you in person if we are going to keep talking.”

  98.  #98janjune on October 15, 2009 at 8:24 pm

    all this feels very much like “dealing with it”. “getting it out” in the open.

    i didn’t realize the pain began back with the first boyfriend.

    i mean i KNEW that was the physical timetable of my pain but didn’t realize how MUCH, how profoundly it hurt me and how much it has colored every relationship i’ve been in since then
    i have not been whole with a man since then.
    i always felt i was at the mercy of the man i was with to treat me well. or not.
    And I WAS totally at his mercy because i didnt know how to take care of myself emotionally.
    i needed to be taken care of.

    And i’ve been scared and my own behavior with guys didn’t even make sense to me sometimes but i was trying to protect myself because i didn’t know how to protect myself stand up for myself from the beginning and KEEP standing up for myself in a self- respectful way that was also respectful to him.
    so i ended up looking flaky and scattered and incapable and needing help.

    but Rori’s Tools are giving me structure, i feel girding, i feel strength, i feel kindness for myself and others.

    thank you for my date with the man who talks about sex too much and i felt less than and triggered all this to come up.
    thank you for Rori’s Tools to protect myself from harm.
    thank you for triggering me so i can leave the past behind me, in my wake.
    thank you for the wonderful opportunities that lie ahead of me.
    thank you for the fine dates and men i will have come into my life.
    thank you for the fun, rewarding job coming to me.
    i really feel this now.
    opening myself up to good things.
    good things are coming my way.
    i am ready, i am not ddragging my past and my past sorrows with me into the future. not these anyway.

  99.  #99gina on October 15, 2009 at 8:24 pm

    About men paying for things. If a man doesn’t pay, I don’t feel good, and if I don’t feel good, then i won’t hang out with him again. I want to be taken care of, and if the man doesn’t take care of me, then I know I can count on me to take care of myself. He doesn’t HAVE to pay for me. I can pay. But if he wants Romance or even much RESPECT from me, then he ought to pay.

  100.  #100gina on October 15, 2009 at 8:30 pm

    Btw, for me, it would NOT feel good for me to keep pushing the issue – even in terms of feeling messages. I would feel like I was begging. I would let it be known how I felt, and if the man didn’t want to take care of my feelings, fine. I would stay away from him.

  101.  #101janjune on October 15, 2009 at 8:39 pm

    “He doesn’t HAVE to pay for me. I can pay. But if he wants Romance or even much RESPECT from me, then he ought to pay.”
    “I would let it be known how I felt, and if the man didn’t want to take care of my feelings, fine. I would stay away from him.”

    Well said Gina!!


  102.  #102gina on October 15, 2009 at 8:43 pm

    for the happy hour guy, we were texting, and I was feeling bored and limited by that form of communication. He asked me “so what all do you like to do?” I said “All kinds of things. maybe we can chat about it over coffee sometime” which, now that I’m looking at it, wasn’t good, I was leaning forward. At the time, it didn’t feel leaning forward at all, cause I DIDN’T CARE!! I just didn’t want to text much more. It’s funny cause now I see that he sorta responded like I was leaning forward, but I felt so turned off by the texting, I didn’t notice. I was taking care of business. He said “Yeah definitely. I’m not much of a coffee person. I like tea though, and wine. what kind of free time do you get?” I said something like “How about happy hour tommorrow downtown – I have to be at work at 730.” He suggested a place and specific time. I was at work and was too busy and uninterested in him to really notice that I didn’t use the tools!!! I was communicating in my comfort zone, not practicing new skills. oh well, I’ll have more opportunity on the actual dates.

    Next time, I’ll say something like “I like all kinds of things. It would feel good to talk in person rather than text.” aaah, simple. I feel myself resisting connection cause I feel worried about this poor guy who I’m just using for practice. So instead, I’m poorly practicing with this guy – which is a far bigger waste of time, so enough with that!!

  103.  #103Daria on October 15, 2009 at 8:44 pm

    Rori said before to actually go to the bathroom at pay time if we feel uncomfortable

    I don’t know if she did that for that reason

    I do know i felt absolutley HORRIBLE paying when he decided to pay for her

  104.  #104Daria on October 15, 2009 at 8:45 pm

    I do NOT want to not stand up for myself.

    I feel so glad i cried!

    I feel so glad i told everyone how i felt.

    I want to stand up for myself!

    I want to feel comfortable expecting men to pay, and expecting to be treated like a princess/Goddess/woman

  105.  #105Daria on October 15, 2009 at 8:50 pm

    i can say next time

    gosh i feel uncomfortable being the only woman paying at a table with men…

    do you guys really think i should pay?

  106.  #106Daria on October 15, 2009 at 8:51 pm

    i feel uncomfortable and kinda icky like im mooching… but i dont feel comfortable being the only woman paying at a table full of men… it feels like im not a woman !

    what do you guys think?

  107.  #107gina on October 15, 2009 at 8:54 pm

    I don’t think I would feel very triggered by men who I am not romantically involved with not paying for me. Daria, it obviously bothered you deeply, and I wish I could be more helpful in coming up with a way for you to “stand up” for yourself, as you put it. I wonder if the main thing to learn from it was the “Hot Russian’s” trick of escaping to the bathroom – it was Rori’s advice in action and it worked!

  108.  #108gina on October 15, 2009 at 8:57 pm

    Daria that last statement sounded good to me

  109.  #109gina on October 15, 2009 at 9:09 pm

    I’m giving further consideration to how it must’ve felt for you Daria, and I actually do think I could have been super triggered…

    I think in the past I wouldn’t have been triggered at all – I’d think “oh, good I’m glad that I’m here to take care of my bill. That other chick is coming off like a mooch.” But then I’d probably notice that the man did seem glad to step up and take care of the “hot Russian Chick” and I would wonder why they treated her like more of a “woman” than me, when I was the ‘responsible, considerate’ one who paid my own way, not inconveniencing any of them.

    Now, after learning rori’s tools, if I was feeling some concern about the bill, it would be great if I had the foresight to excuse myself to the bathroom on time. If I didn’t, then i can totally see how I could feel like I was missing an opportunity to be treated like a Goddess. I might feel stuck – scared to come off like a mooch, but super sad about playing “small” by paying. I’m glad that you shared this scenario with us, Daria. Cause now I think I could more easily find words like the ones you suggested to stand up for my Goddessness.

  110.  #110janjune on October 15, 2009 at 9:32 pm

    if Mr. Too Much Sex Talk should happen to call me again, i’m going to say:
    i don’t feel like you see me as a whole person.
    that feels *less than* to me and i’m not less than.
    i know i’m more than that and want to be treated that way. What do you think?

    If he acts like he doesn’t know what i’m talking about I’m going to say:
    it feels greasy to be confronted with propositions for sexual situations when i’ve already expressed i’m not interested in that.
    i feel coldness and wishing i was someplace else.
    i can’t see any reason for us to go out again, feeling that way.

    then just see if he hangs up and never calls back or apologizes.

    when he started doing that it felt pornish.
    when he does that, that’s what being with him feels like, like he wants to bang somebody, get his r*cks off. it feels greasy and “sub-” and johnish. i meant “toilet-y” when i said johnish, but i see how the other connection fits so very well too…

    no, i don’t really think i’m going to say any of that—
    i don’t think he’s going to call again.

    thank you, Mr. Sex Man for being my catalyst to purge more pukey, toxic waste from contaminating my heart and life.
    thank you, Mr. Sex Man for the opportunity to figure out what I’m going to tell anyone who ever treats me like that again– on the FIRST date, instead of waiting until after the second date to figure it out.


  111.  #111alias girl on October 15, 2009 at 9:41 pm

    “gosh i dont feel comfortable being the only woman paying at a table full of men… it feels like im not a woman !

    what do you think?”

    yes daria. I feel good with that too. i just realized why you felt angry. at first i was like why is she expecting these guys to pay and it’s because THEY PAID FOR THE OTHER WOMEN!!!! to be the only woman at the table that wasn’t paid for. i would feel not good with that. i
    would totally cry too.

    i would say your statement and if they didn’t agree to pay I would get up and walk out and meet them out front.

    Or maybe once i realized what was happening I would skip the statement and just walk out and wait for them out front. if someone asked why tell them i wanted some air. if they asked why i didnt pay i would say the men seemed to be generously and kindly picking up the women’s portion. and i want to thank them for that. thank you. Am i wrong? i thought that was what was happening. didn’t the men pay for so and so and what’s her name?

    rrrrrr…. is my way too passive aggressive. rrrr. i feel curious about the best solution to this.

    if i had all the money in the world i would feel entitled to this. if i was tight on money i would feel like i am trying to mooch. yet it’s not about mooching. it’s about being treated like a lady as the other women were.

    YET. those boys weren’t trying to woo me romantically. AND the other women were manipulative about it.

    argh. so i feel torn.

    i guess i would say my feelings and then just let the chips fall where they will. and if the men didn’t step up well i would know what i was dealing with.

    i wouldn’t manipulate them into paying. i would feel very ungoddesey about that.

    i feel curious about other goddesses feelings about this.

  112.  #112alias girl on October 15, 2009 at 9:42 pm

    hahahahahaha i just sent my info in for this dance thing that i was scared to send in earlier. hahahahahah! i feel GREAT!

  113.  #113alias girl on October 15, 2009 at 9:44 pm

    now i just finished reading what gina wrote. i feel conflicted. yes, i’d be the polite one, playing “nice” while the “hot russian chick” is getting treated like a goddess.

    rrrrrrr. i feel conflicted and very very curious.

  114.  #114alias girl on October 15, 2009 at 9:56 pm

    for me, if the guy was going overboard on the sex talk/references thing i would say ‘look i feel uncomfortable with so many references to sex from a guy i am just getting to know. i actually feel a little shut down and turned off. i feel good with us getting to know each other but all this sex talk feels really not good for me. what do you think?

    then if he kept it up i would end the date.

  115.  #115janjune on October 15, 2009 at 9:56 pm

    dear Rori, i think you are an angel.


  116.  #116janjune on October 15, 2009 at 9:58 pm

    i think he was just there to trigger me into purging some more.

  117.  #117alias girl on October 15, 2009 at 10:00 pm



    yes good. i feel good to hear you caring for yourself and finding your way.

  118.  #118janjune on October 15, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    alias girl,
    but yes, what you said sounds appropriate.

    i kept thinking i had gotten the message across as i did tell him how i felt about sex with people i didn’t know.–its’ not happening! forget it! not interested!

    i just kept thinking he would respect that. but i can see after reading what you wrote you would have said that the way i handled it does mark me for men as a target– someone who might give in. because i’m not firm and forceful enough rigtht up front to deal with it or bail the hell out.

    this was a good lesson. i don’t think i’ll ever do that again.


  119.  #119janjune on October 15, 2009 at 10:24 pm

    yes, i can definately see now that in the future i won’t repeat the same request or express my discomfort more than once or twice at the most.
    it’s not optional anyway, so i need to leave.

    as far as them, if i’m not willing to express my boundaries and enforce them, it shouldn’t be up to them.
    it’s up to me.
    they’re my boundaries.
    i need to make sure they’re not crossed and not leave that up to someone else.

    it’s up to me.
    i take ownership of them.
    they’re mine and i will handle them as i learn how.


  120.  #120janjune on October 15, 2009 at 10:27 pm

    i feel like a mess. 🙂

  121.  #121gina on October 15, 2009 at 10:40 pm

    but actually, i might think that the one guy who did pay for the russian chick had the hots for her, and I would think it was cool that he took the opportunity to take care of her. I might not take it personally. Is that possible, or is that not how the vibe was?

  122.  #122gina on October 15, 2009 at 10:51 pm

    but honestly, I want to be in a place where my experience of being a Goddess doesn’t DEPEND on guys stepping up. I’m a Goddess either way, and the ones who DO step up get closest access. But I’m feeling good and Goddessy today. On a different day, I might feel like I needed validation. but then I would consider the message to be about my own neediness, and not about the situation. If I thought the men were intentionally leaving me out, or if I saw that they expressed that the other woman was entitled as a woman, but they left me out, I’d let them know I was ticked. But it sounds like they noticed she ditched, and a guy who was hot for her stepped in. And, actually, when he called her the “hot Russian Chick,” that sounds like he hopes he might get lucky – doesn’t really sound all that respectful and romantic to me.

  123.  #123Angeline on October 15, 2009 at 11:18 pm


    I feel so overwhelmed by all the posts here. I want to follow along but all day long I have to be on the computer, so I feel like all I want to do is play. But I also want to connect, because this space here where we’re trying out these new things is so wonderful.

    And also, I feel gratitude for the people who wished me good luck on the UK date. It felt good and was a good learning experience, though he got me talking about the mortgage crisis and I got all curious and boyish about life in London.

    Also, I learned that feeling message *are* magic. But it doesn’t feel so appealing when you’re not so into the guy. I feel confused.

  124.  #124Tina on October 15, 2009 at 11:22 pm

    Daria, I dont know about you, if I were in that situation, I would feel bad for myself, I would feel like having an all out pity party. I would feel unattractive or at least question myself, how did I not inspire these men sitting there to pay for my dinner? I was in a situation where there were men and women sitting at a table where we all decided before hand what we were ordering, I decided to eat what I was able to pay for, it turned out I ordered nachos, then the others desided to order finger foods and shared with every one at the table, we all ate and were full and happy. The check came around, one girl had only five dollars so she paid tipped the waitress, that was reasonable, it worked out that know one really paid full price for what was ordered, it was all good. If it were a group of friends then I would suggest dealing with the bill before. Obviously the guy who paid for the girl in the bathroom had a somewhat romantic interest so of course he paid. I dont know what about the other women though. How are these women connected to these men?

    I still would feel I didnt inspire their man like response to pay for my dinner or I could just take it as a learning lesson. What can I learn from this? ok so big deal they didnt pay for me. Should have I said no I cant go eat out with you all becaause I feel like men should pay for my meal,and unless that is the case I’m not going?

  125.  #125gina on October 15, 2009 at 11:46 pm

    i think it also depends on my relationship with these men. if i felt unappreciated by them in general, i would feel sensitive.

  126.  #126alias girl on October 16, 2009 at 1:01 am

    thank you for a good man to have sex with. and also a relationship with.yes this is what i want. today i feel i want to be in a relationship with a good man and we do fun things and have sex.

    thank you.

    today i only want one boyfriend.

  127.  #127Tina on October 16, 2009 at 9:29 am

    Alias girl, I’m going to use that feeling message from 5 day coffee date guy. I feel uncomfortable when he asked me on several occasions if I missed him blah. I’ll insert “relationship talk” instead of sex talk. He asks me then all I can muster up is a huge sigh and an uhhhhhh, he then laughs and either he or I change the subject, then he asks again, I feel really annoyed/angry when he does this. I have to find an absolute seal the deal, I’ve changed my mind reason, I still feel really pissed off that he didnt care to listen to what I had to say about how I was feeling. He said that he is speeding up his divorce, oh crap! He kinda reminds me of pepe la pue, the little skunk.

    The man who sang to me, asked me what I did for entertainment, I said that I felt dating was entertaining. I was really thrown off by that question, I further said well, you know , I could step out of my house and find that very entertaining, I said I dunno , that is a hard question for me. That was entertaining I said. My brain is entertaining most times. a shape and color of a leaf is entertaining. How do I put that all down, when a man asks a question like that. Tabloid magazines are entertaining so isnt Art of War. It’s like asking a caterpiller how does it walk on ten legs, oh I dunno I just do I guess. There I go again blah blah blah. Most people say they go to the movies, well I dont like going to the movie theatre, I cant pause the movie and make a cup of coffee or something, no bathroom breaks, If I feel like having sex then I can rewind later. When coffee date guy asks me a question like “do you miss me” I feel like saying well no I didnt miss you, why would I, I dont know you, our conversations are entertaining though thanks for asking?, argggggh! or do I just go with a feeling message , is it really about my bounderies, mine a pretty loosy goosy at times.

  128.  #128Terrance Thames on October 16, 2009 at 11:50 am

    Hey Ladies,

    Ok so I wrote a long and elaborate comment but it has now erased twice so I am really annoyed and I am going to cut it down a lot here.

    If I saw a woman go outside to wait for me or go into the bathroom around check time, I would totally know what was going on and I was definitely make them pay for their meal…Why? Because it is extremely manipulative and i would never intentionally do that to anyone. To a guy with high self-confidence and self-esteem that would create resentment, judgement, and quite frankly if the situation was bad enough, defiance. That to me goes beyond just a sense of entitlement, thats also blatant disrespect. A guy that stands for that kind of behavior is usually not above manipulating himself. The guy actually seemed like he knew what she was doing too.

    “the guy that was the main person in charge was like well they were like “well she diner dashed”
    he said well ill pay for the hot russian chick”

    Thats pretty evident her. He just created an ulterior motive which made it ok to him that she just manipulated him. Notice how that happens, Being manipulative creates manipulative behaviors?

    Gina said: “But it sounds like they noticed she ditched, and a guy who was hot for her stepped in. And, actually, when he called her the “hot Russian Chick,” that sounds like he hopes he might get lucky – doesn’t really sound all that respectful and romantic to me.”

    This is right on the money!

    I would much rather be inspired the right way to pay for someone’s meal than to be tricked into it. Most of the time that means if there is a romantic interest. Not all the time, as I often pay for my friends’ meals as well. If there was romantic interest for the women at the table that got their meals paid for (at least one for sure)
    and there was no romantic interest for one woman at the table then that one woman becomes the victim of circumstance which I empathize for her. That has to be painful and with a couple of light feelings messages i might be inspired to pick up everybody’s meals. For me tho obviously a sense of entitlement that great is a definite non-negotiable for me.

  129.  #129Mercedes on October 16, 2009 at 12:03 pm

    I think I have a take on this similar to. Unless I’m dating a man, I expect to pay for my own meal (J has broken me of expecting that when I’m dating someone…he always pays and I am so grateful for that). If a man I’m with (who isn’t my boyfriend) happens to pick up the check, I am pleasantly surprised.

    I actually get a little defensive when a guy buys me a drink in a bar. I never turn down a free drink mind you but I DO put my defenses up. Mostly, that’s because I’m not always sure it was done out of respect vs him thinking he can get some.

    I love it when I’m sitting and talking to a man and he buys me a drink…because I’ve already been open and honest about having a boyfriend…but when a man just buys me one without talking to me, I tend to go on alert.

    When I’m with a group of people, I expect to pay my own way.

    I love the IDEA of feeling entitled to a free meal just because I’m a woman, however, I haven’t gotten there at all. Like I said, I am genuinly (and pleasantly) surprised when I don’t pay.

    That being said, if I were the ONLY woman at a table of men and women who didn’t get her meal paid for, it would hurt. I hope I would take stock of the type of men I was sitting with and understand that a group of men who could be so blatantly rude were not the type of men I would want in my life. If not one man at that table looked around and noticed that all the women were getting free meals and I wasn’t….well…then not one man at that table would be worth developing anything further with. And if I wasn’t looking to develop anything further…then I’m hoping I would feel proud of myself for being independent and not using manipulation to get a free meal.

    Just my thoughts on me and how I hope I would feel/handle a very hurtful situation like that.

    Much Love,

  130.  #130Mercedes on October 16, 2009 at 12:03 pm

    I meant I think I have a take similar to Terrance….

  131.  #131Terrance Thames on October 16, 2009 at 12:09 pm

    lol…mercedes sometimes I think you are in my head 🙂

  132.  #132Mercedes on October 16, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    Terrance: I am. And I am guiding you every step of the way. Hill will thank me for it someday…

    LOL! Just kidding! 🙂 We do think alike sometimes (most of the time??) though….that would either be my masculine energy or your feminine energy…not sure which… 😉

    Much Love,

  133.  #133gina on October 16, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    I appreciate Terrance’s input. I feel turned off by pushy manipulative behavior. I don’t like to be around it, and I definitely don’t feel good to dish it out – I’ve tried it on for size before and never have I ever felt like such a piece of crap – the opposite of goddess. I don’t think Rori’s suggestion of excusing ourselves to the if bathroom at pay time on a date is the same deal. I would feel better about addressing it in a straight forward manner. In the past I’ve asked “would you like me to contribute?” but that didn’t feel as good as “how would like to handle payment while we’re dating? On the one hand, I don’t feel Entitled to be paid for, and I would never want you to have that impression of me. On the other hand, I feel much more feminine and cared for when a man pays. what do you think?” Any tweaks or suggestions?

  134.  #134alias girl on October 16, 2009 at 12:43 pm

    love to the kings and goddesses on siren island! xoxo 🙂

  135.  #135Mercedes on October 16, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    Love back atcha AG!!! xoxo

  136.  #136Terrance Thames on October 16, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    🙂 AG ditto!

  137.  #137alias girl on October 16, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    oooh ooh i feel love! this is good. this is good. this is just the direction i am looking to go in.


    i feel smiley.

    ah, i feel uplifted.

  138.  #138heartbeat on October 16, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    I’d like to join in the love, too
    even tho I feel a little shy

  139.  #139Terrance Thames on October 16, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    Get some heatbeat 🙂

  140.  #140gina on October 16, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Love from my way, too!))))))))))))))))))))))))))

  141.  #141gina on October 16, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    boo! it looked cool in this box!

  142.  #142Linda on October 16, 2009 at 3:40 pm

    Janjune…. you inspire me. Your post about being triggered and dialogue about Too Much Sex Man…is awesome. I am sorry you had the experience but am glad too. I have had similar things and conversations. I usually dont communicate in feeling messages. I am more a straight to the point, non beat around the bush communicator. I think that feels boyish. I feel my feelings but do not express them, I just make a decision and share what I need to say based on them. Sharing my feelings with someone feels unprotective but I see the value in being able to articulate them. I feel challanged and wonder how my life will change when I am more comfortable with doing that. It has been my opinion that sharing my feelings about something beyond surfacie, current issue ish stuff is kinda like casting my pearls before swine Expressing my feelings is deeper than casual conversation to me. Your posts make me aware that there is value in shareing emotions because they may evoke emotion in the men or man. We all (male and female) need emotional closeness.

    I feel curious about expressing my emotions about something I may be comfortable or uncomfortable with when I am with a man and seeing what kind of response I get. I think it will be a great time saver.. I mean if he does not respond in a way that shows he could value what I feel then I would know quicker if he was going to be worthy more of my time or hold interest. I feel positive about trying this. Using feeling messages does not come natural for me… it is going to be my new challange.

    I REALLLY KNOW how bad if feels to give give give and have it not be enough… and give it all without reserve and be walked away from. Yes it FEELS bad and devaluing. I dont want a man that is like that. I want to be treasured, and cherrished, and valued. I want a man to be concerned about my feelings. I want a man who thinks about his actions and they may affect me.

    The Too much sex man… was simply behaving inappropriately! and telling him so is not out of line…you dont have to be mean or belittling just tell him. He has had no good men role models in his life. He has no idea how to treat a lady/goddess, and just wanted get to the “woman” part of you. He is clueless. So why not clue him in. Think of it as community service.

    I dont want a man who I have to train
    I want a man who’s heart is open and prepared to receive and love a woman such as I… I know he is out there… in the meantime, I am going to keep working on me so I will be ready to receive him. Oh I can feel him coming, he wants the same things I want. That makes me smile.

    Hugs… Linda

  143.  #143heartbeat on October 16, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    Got it, Terrance 😉

    It looks like a love wave, Gina. I like that!

  144.  #144tinque on October 16, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    Can I have some of all this love too???
    XXOO to all…

    Linda – something that stands outs for me is that sometimes “the One” doesn’t look like “the One” right away. Sometimes it takes growing and growing together, and one day you realize not only is this person your one and only, he’s YOUR brand of white knight in shining armor, perfect, perfect just as he and as he will be.

  145.  #145heartbeat on October 16, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    I’ve got plenty to share, Tinque 😆 xxxx

    Goodnight Siren Island
    it’s late here

  146.  #146nikita on October 16, 2009 at 4:25 pm


    Alias Girl,

    over the last few days I’ve been feeling so “commit-like”
    or something….I feel gooey and shell-broken..I feel like something seeped in liguid-like and nesty…It feels good but…I also feel a hunting space traveling around my heart …pacing like a tiger….

  147.  #147Mary Ann on October 16, 2009 at 4:37 pm

    I’m going to a birthday thing tonight and “he” might be there. I haven’t heard from him since our conversation last Friday when I told him I need to spend different time with him and he said he can do that. Its a good thing I didn’t hold my breath. I need to sort out my feelings before I see him because I don’t know how I’m going to react. He did mention a conference he had to be at middle of the month so I don’t know if this was the week, but whatever…
    I feel angry, frustrated, used, confused, ANGRY, ANGRY, ANGRY!!!
    I feel angry that he can’t step up, angry that I did not act consistent with my long term needs. ANGRY, ANGRY, ANGRY!!!!!
    I deserve a man who will open himself to me, who wants to love all of me, who wants to take care of my heart, see who i am inside and smile with love and amazement. I want a man who knows that my love is precious and cherishes it, and wants nothing more than to keep it and hold it and never let it go.
    I keep asking why no one is inspired to be that way with me, and its because I seem to think they should be able to just see it…but I need to show it!!!! HOw do I show them who I am? My friends see it, even my male friends…I am the one who is scared then..because I don’t show myself to men I’m attracted to. I try..but obviously I’m not because if I did, they would see it, it would be right there in front of them.
    I feel frustrated and so FKN ANGRY!!!!!!!! I need to act in such a way that is consistent with how I want to be seen. Why is it I’m weak and grasping at low level I that lonely and desperate? I feel sad for me, I feel like supporting me and loving me…but why doesn’t feel as satisfying as a man loving me? I have a good life but I’m never as happy as when I’m in love. I want that, I deserve that but this time I want it to be real and lasting and just plain WAY BETTER!!!!

    i’m still angry….and I still don’t know what I’m going to say to “him” ….he’s the F@#@#$ great WALL of china…!!!!
    Tough guy Mr. Arm & Hammer (his toothpaste but very fitting) but not so tough….big CHICKEN!!!

    deep breath…I need to express my feelings and let the chips fall where they may…I feel angry, confused and frustrated. I also feel sad that I haven’t been consistent with my words and actions, for that I feel sorry. It feels great to be with you but I’m also sad that its one dimensional (not sure how to express myself here) I feel sad not to be able to see inside you…where you keep the things that I see glimpses of in your eyes. This makes me want to cry..i want to be able to share myself with someone who can share himself with me.

    well i’m now I’m crying not swearing…

  148.  #148alias girl on October 16, 2009 at 5:02 pm

    aw yes a love wave all sirens and kings included and heartbeat and gina and tinque!!!!!! x0x0x

    yes nikita…maybe i am FinallY ready to settle into a love relationship? that’s how i feel. i feel melty.

    i also feel like i am getting to a point where other people’s behavior just doesn’t trigger me like it used to. it doesn’t really have anything to do with me. i’m getting pretty good with the boundary thing and speaking up right away and i seem to be doing pretty good and feeling pretty good about my interactions with people.

    i used to want to be one of those people that people said really good things about. you know, like after i was gone or dead people would reminesce and all they would have to say were positive things about me.

    yeah well i can’t really control other people’s opinions about me or what they say about me and it seems far more important to have fun and be who i feel good being.

    “Sorry you can`t define me
    Sorry I break the mold
    Sorry that I speak my mind
    Sorry don`t do what I`m told
    Sorry if I don`t fake it
    Sorry I come too real
    I will never hide what I really feel” -christina aguilera

  149.  #149tinque on October 16, 2009 at 5:44 pm

    Okay I give. I am now twittering (I just don’t like the word tweet. sounds like a dying bird or a strangled one or something) as tinquebelle. tinque was taken. I’m sure I didn’t sign up before. I think…
    I rather prefer tinquebelle. Should I change my blog name? Poll please. Or should I “come out” with my real name not that it’s a secret.

    Awesome AG, awesome. nothing better in my book aside from sex and mind blowing orgasms, in a one and only relationship though.

    Love to all. I’m feeling rather silly tonight or drunkeded.

  150.  #150janjune on October 16, 2009 at 6:05 pm


    thanks for the ‘hugs’ and encouragement. i feel happy you feel inspired. it is a toxic, toxic mess i’ve been carrying around with me. it’s a wonder i managed to survive emotionally.
    so much more to learn about taking care of myself….
    yes, we sound like we’ve been on many of the same dates! Ha!…but then,… not so funny either… yick!

    i am still, today, picking up messages via the date. he gave me alot to work with!
    these are nothing Rori isn’t already teaching, but some of it doesn’t find a place to live in me until i experience it:
    1. when I *set* a boundary, be prepared to *enforce* it otherwise it’s just a guideline.
    and only nice people follow guidelines.
    2. i, like you don’t want to have to train a man, i want him to come preinstalled with respect for women.
    if i even get an inkling that someone and i are not on the same page regarding respecting boundaries, i need to honor that and be prepared to bring it up and be prepared to leave without hesitation.
    I have not used the Walk Away Tool much in my life.
    3. i couldn’t and still can’t use feeling messages easily because i’ve spent so much time training myself NOT to feel anything.
    it was my only reliable protection since i didn’t know how to stop things from happening in the first place.
    4. i am still drawing the same type of men i don’t want.
    i am too “nice”. even with him i was too “nice”. i tried to overlook things. i tried to not be “prudish”, i tried to make the date “work” out.
    using rori’s message and work, today, three days later, I realize how it might have looked to him:
    disrespectful to mySELF.– i.e., he didn’t have to worry about him disrespecting me, i was already doing it to myself..
    it was. it was all those things. because i really didn’t feel good but i didn’t speak up, i was just trying to smooth the situation over and have a good time since we were already out.
    I was trying to make the date go the way I wanted it to go.
    i was trying to help him *DO* the date becausde i didn’t like the way it was going. the way he was doing it.
    and then i pretended like it was more okay than it was.

    and another lesson…, i had driven 1/3 of the way to meet him since i felt like i should since he made the full round trip the first time. (plus i wanted to have my own car) i was just trying to be *nice* (there it is again) and *fair* but as Rori says, a man who wants to date you doesn’t care about nice and he doen’t care about fair and he doesn’t care about having to pay… he just wants to be with you.
    *Nice* and *fair* is what a man *friend* wants.

    looking at it three days later in the comfort of my living room i can see all that, but at the time i was just trying to find the good in him and bring it out.
    …but, that’s not my JOB.
    That’s HIS job.
    to bring out the good in himSELF
    and show it to me…
    i see that so well now… not being in the heat of the moment.
    i understand now that’s what Rori is trying to say.
    ….Lean back.
    See what he’s got to say.
    Let him *present* himself.
    don’t help him.
    Do I want it?? –what he’s offering.
    yes or no.
    Simple as that.

    …and the lessons just keep coming….
    all day was like this.
    i have felt physically sick after my meltdown yesterday. i feel sick like after you have the flu or food poisoning. where you’re feeling better but still queasy and a little pasty…but where you know you’re feeling better than you did and will feel better tomorrow.

    Late this afternoon I put on my favorite outfit and bought a piece of my favorite cherry cake and a little bottle of milk and drove out to my favorite place to see the leaves. when i drove by a real estate place, they had a sign out for real estate classes, so i called them and set up a reservation for next tues. night to check it out… have been thinking about trying to sell real estate since i could set my own hours.

    and came home and went outside in the cold in a tank top and took some macro images of the leaves and the flowers. I could really feel the cold and the birds were very busy and i even heard a cricket. i could feel how my favorite shoes fit my feet so well and felt warm compared to the cold air on my shoulders.

    I can see why Rori keeps telling us feel, Feel, FEEL. feel the chair feel the air feel your face feel your eyelashes, feel the tree trunk, what does it feel like, how do you feel when you feel it? such a smart lady.

    love, janjune

  151.  #151Teresa on October 16, 2009 at 8:07 pm

    Girls, sorry for the absence, I haven’t had internet access recently since I haven’t been at home.

    I am still working on getting money coming in.

    NEW news, I have a completely new turn to this situation.

    I am pregnant.

    I have had sex with one other guy, during the time that this bad behavior has been going on, but I am pretty sure it is my sweetheart D’s.

    I haven’t told him yet, am with him tonight discussing some letter that he found that I had written him but not sent.
    Soooo.. depending on how it all goes, I may tell him tonight.

    I really want to be with him and keep our family together, we will see what happens.
    I have not been present at home the last couple of weeks or so, I have been elsewhere.

    Any thoughts, advice, comments, everything appreciated.
    Love to you all and hope to catch up here soon.


  152.  #152Teresa on October 16, 2009 at 8:09 pm

    ps, have been trying to get an ultrasound so I know how far along I am but haven’t been able to yet. will have to just apply for medicaid and wait until it comes through, I guess. 🙁

    Also, does anyone know what type of DNA tests are available before birth, how safe they are, and how much they cost?

    I don’t want to do this with anyone else other than D, however I’m pretty certain it is his, but I am sure he will want to know for sure.


  153.  #153heartbeat on October 16, 2009 at 8:36 pm

    Teresa – I have no idea how you FEEL about all of this. I feel stunned…

  154.  #154heartbeat on October 16, 2009 at 8:46 pm

    I feel protective of children. After my son was born I felt like a she-wolf. I bared my teeth at the nurses.

    I send prayers for a happy outcome.

  155.  #155heartbeat on October 16, 2009 at 8:54 pm

    Janjune – I feel right with you with the leaves and the warmth and the cool and the sound of the cricket.

  156.  #156heartbeat on October 16, 2009 at 9:03 pm

    ‘Tinque’ always made me think of a little bell. ‘Tinquebelle’ feels magical too, like a fairy princess. Such a distinctive name, whether it has belle attached or not. I feel amused at ‘drunkeded’ 🙂
    I feel wide-awakeded.

  157.  #157heartbeat on October 16, 2009 at 9:21 pm

    I feel surreal in bed here, convalescing. My side hurts, my head hurts and my breath feels alittle tight. I’m too sick to travel to my sister but in any case she has gone away with her husband for the weekend. I feel sad – she is saying goodbye to friends. She is getting her affairs in order. I feel settled thinking of the letter I’m writing to her.

    She is six years younger and has always been my advisor on men. I feel a huge amount of wonder at how she has always been totally herself. She just lets it all hang out. On the face of it we are chalk-and-cheese. I’m the quiet, reserved one. She is the no-holds-barred one, not appearing to care what anyone thinks and she speaks her mind. Underneath we are not so differnt, just an old family dynamic. She sees me as her role model. I just want to connect with her. I’ll really miss her, I want her to know how important she is to me because she actually has never had much confidence in herself.

    She lives 7hours away. I feel ready to make the trip every week if I have to. I feel closer to my son talking about it – he is 20 now and still at home but we do our own thing mostly these days.

  158.  #158janjune on October 16, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    i feel empathy and compassion about your siutation with your sister’s health and about you being under the weather, too.
    “sisters” is such a special relationship. no other blood relative walks with you through as many years as your sister — not your mother or your father, your husband, your children… there just aren’t words for the uniqueness of it.

    sending thoughts of comfort and peace to you and saying a prayer for you.
    love, janjune

  159.  #159heartbeat on October 16, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    Janjune thanks so much for your warmth and prayers. I’m following your insights and cheering you on from the wings xxxx

  160.  #160alias girl on October 17, 2009 at 2:48 am

    the last bazillion people i’ve met have been strongly affiliated with making music.


    i think not.


  161.  #161Flipper on October 17, 2009 at 3:40 am


    I have so often felt you’re insights, too, though even afterwards couldn’t have put them so well. There were so many, I left off copying, but I want to acknowledge you and reaffirm them here: (let him present himself well (his job), let him take care of logistics (he feels good ‘doing’, so let him), fair and nice (= friend), Just Feel (everything, all the time), etc.

    Tinque/Tinquebelle I love them both.

    Dear Heartbeat, I feel that your circling bird has approached and grieving is already underway. A warm gesture from over the Channel.

  162.  #162heartbeat on October 17, 2009 at 3:48 am

    Thank you, Flipper xxxx

  163.  #163tinque on October 17, 2009 at 9:13 am

    heartbeat – I applaud and chuckle at awakeded. You SO get it.
    As for your sister I feel deep sadness, a swelling in my heart, an intense connection to you. Your “not feeling well” reflects your feelings of impending loss. I’m here as are all of your goddess sisters here. Please do not hesitate to reach out directly as in via e-mail or publicly as in here. I send you love….

  164.  #164tinque on October 17, 2009 at 9:14 am

    PS – Thank you Flipper and heartbeat for the feedback on names. I’m delighted you love my names. My real one is pretty cool too. I got lucky in the name department.
    Happy Saturday everyone…

  165.  #165heartbeat on October 17, 2009 at 9:41 am

    Tinque – belle – that invitation feels special and welcome. Thank you. I’ll be offline now for a day or so and carry your words with me xxxx

  166.  #166Teresa on October 17, 2009 at 11:38 am


    you are right. how do i feel about this..
    see how easily I get caught up in thinking?…

    I have been feeling very anxious, nauseous, nervous. half because of the relationship stuff going on. part because I never know where I’m going to sleep at night and don’t have any money now.
    and partially bc i’m pregnant.

    I came by yesterday to talk about what he read on my computer.. we touched on some things. we didn’t discuss enough but it will be an ongoing conversation. He said that the letter made him rethink things. He said that when i am gone he misses me but he thinks we don’t want the same thing from a relationship. when i am here he doesn’t miss me but is confused. very attracted to me. things i fit in so many parts of his life, just seems this part …. we need more communication, compassion, …etc.
    we had dinner and talked a tiny bit, went to a movie (i wanted to lighten things)- where the wild things are.

    later that night while we were talking more about all this, i told him. he was very happy and excited and wanted to have sex with me right then. he already couldn’t stay away from me but that was it.

    He is excited, even though logically, it could be someone elses. I hope not, and i don’t think so. he even said he has been thinking about this lately. he felt like he knew something was going on with me.

    but MY FEELINGS:
    I’ve been anxious, nervous, scared, worried, happy, excited, … afraid to fully show my excitement. i feel hesitant because I feel fear (false evidence appearing real) of what if it’s not his. feeling sick.
    i feel amazed and happy that this is happening with D, and excited about the experience. I feel relieved that he was so excited. I feel safe knowing that he is a good father. i feel tense and afraid of things that haven’t even happened, of the unknown, of how this relationship will be and what will be said and done from now into the future.
    i feel sick thinking he is still seeing this girl, but also desiring so much to keep my family, and keep his love, that I feel desirous of being here after this mess, and maybe throughout it, but not sure what that looks like. maybe it looks like not being here, maybe it looks like being here .. I SEEK and AM GETTING this clarity. It is MINE. I want to feel clear and peaceful. i feel desirous and demanding of respect and compassion and kindness. i feel angry that i might not know whose the baby is. angry at myself.
    even though, this other person has never gotten ANYone pregnat, ever. D has gotten a few people pregnant (although he has only one child). i feel scared because i want to know NOW. I feel not happy about the idea of having a baby with the other person and worried about finding out early enough to be able to have the choice of having it or not. even though all my instincts have told me and have been telling me that it is D’s. it is our lucian. it is a boy. that he has been coming for months now.
    i feel emotionally clouded by unnecessary fear – but feel it’s necessary to worry – even though at the moment i can’t do a thing about it until i get insurance and a drs appt. i feel sick with worry. i feel guilty for this. i feel i might be punished for this even. I feel guilty for feeling weak and worried. I want to feel stronger, I want to feel faithful. I want to know that this is an answer to all my prayers asking for god’s divine influence and guidance in my life and D’s life, for god’s guidance in what D says and does, and also in response to me telling him. I want to know this is an answer to my prayers; that this is exactly what God intended to happen and that it is a blessing, an answer, a yes, a healing. I want to know that everything that happens contributes to the growth of our relationship, into a marriage.
    I feel like this is so hard and taking so long, I guess the last few weeks have felt so long. I feel so tired and taxed, physically, from all events and being pregnant. I want to feel things being easy. I want to feel positive about whose baby it is, from something I can SEE, even though I have my intuition. I feel betrayed by my physical self full of doubt, when instead I want to feel more faithful. I feel afraid of manifesting what I don’t want; I want to create and manifest what I WANT.

    I feel sleepy, so I am going to take a nap for a minute.
    I feel worried about my already past due car payment and my upcoming automatic debit insurance bill, when there is no money in my account.

    back to sleep for a few ….

  167.  #167gina on October 17, 2009 at 12:17 pm

    I just read this article that Terrance recommended on his sight:

    Found it to be super insightful about the source of a lot of men’s anger – I believe I’ve seen this frustration in a lot of men I know. Curious about what ya’ll think of it.

  168.  #168janjune on October 17, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    i feel heard.

  169.  #169janjune on October 17, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    dear teresa-
    keep FEELING.
    sink in the soup…you have Alot to deal with.

    you are in my prayers,

  170.  #170janjune on October 17, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    that article is off the charts!

    seeing it in print coming from one of “their” coaches is so encouraging.
    they’re hurting. they’re trying to find their way too…

    there is hope…
    i feel encouraged.


  171.  #171Gerbera on October 18, 2009 at 11:01 am

    Hi Everyone,

    I have been dating this guy since Dec last year. It’s a LD relationship. We didn’t meet up until 6 months after. And ever since then, we only meet like once/twice a month. During the summer time, it’s even worst, since he has to go do lots of outdoor stuff. In order to make it up for me, he planned and went on a trip with me ealier this month.

    However, recently, he has been acting very detached. Even though this is always his style (he has a very busy life, 2 jobs, single dad with 2 kids), like setting up or cancelling the date at the last minute, not calling when promised to call etc. I was kinda hoping we would be closer after the trip, but… Every time he would said “so sorry” after, and he sounded very sincerely. I don’t know what to do to bring him closer, any recommendations?

    Thanks in advance!

  172.  #172Mary Ann on October 18, 2009 at 12:09 pm

    So I’m still very proud of myself and once again proof that Rori’s stuff works. I went to birthday thing on Friday and of course saw “him” there. I didn’t not go to him…we smiled over at each other at first and then somehow ended up beside each other a bit later. He did seem surprised that I didn’t go to him right away. Over a couple of hours we chatted and some funny conversations with other people came up about effort versus perfection, where I pointed out that effort is more important. He made a point of telling me he was away on his conference this week…we got to talking about last week and I said i felt good about our conversation last week when he said he can spend different time with me. I asked him if that’s what he wanted..he said yes I want that. Later he asked me to go home with him, I said ok…because I want to hang out and talk, he said that would be good. That’s when I was able to really use feeling messages. I feel bad when I don’t hear from you. I feel scared. We talked about how every one has been hurt or burned and is scared of it happening again. I said I feel like real courage is facing those fears and trying to remain open. He was kind of surprised to he didn’t see it that way before. lol. i thought that was funny. Anyway, when I said I was came out really hearfelt because I was and am and I really meant it at that moment…his reponse was wonderful..he took my face in his hands and looked me in the eye and said I promise you will hear from me, I promise I’m not going anywhere..and then he wrapped his arms around me and held me just right. It sounds kinda cheesy and movie like…but it was AWESOME!! I felt a little shift and i felt safe and cared for 🙂

    Yesterday I was out all day had many things to do…but I practised eye contact and smiling at random men on the street at the stores…other drivers. I can only manage about 7 seconds or so, but it feels good!
    I am planning Wednesday as my date with myself to the art gallery, I’m looking forward to it!
    I haven’t had a chance to read the new posts yet…I’ll be back tonight…thanks Rori, thanks Goddesses!
    I love my baby steps 🙂

  173.  #173Daria on October 19, 2009 at 4:11 am

    omg Mary Ann how wonderful the way he held you!

    and 7 seconds of eye contact! wow! I think i am on 3 going on 4

  174.  #174Jo-Ann Downey on October 19, 2009 at 4:18 pm

    Since 93% of the total content of messages sent and received is nonverbal, listening skill is definitely where it is at! As well as other nonverbal factors such as body language, vocal tone, gestures, facial expressions, etc.

  175.  #175Jennifer F on October 21, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    Maryann! That is wonderful! I have been practicing my feeling messages too. In one of Rori’s weekly emails she talked about being a poem to yourself, and using poetic feeling messages. I realized I was sounding like a broken record… because all I could manage to spit out was I feel good… I feel sad… I feel blah… nothing profound. So… I started practicing. For example, he came up to, and he knows that I enjoy his bum (it’s a really nice one) and he let me put my hands on it and give it a quick little squeeze, and I said.. That makes me feel yummy. He’s eyes got all wide, and then he got a real sly smile. I believe I shocked him a little. I started telling him last night about a friend who’s grandmother is passing away, and I was being emotional about it, (Which is not something I have been able to do in the past in front of a man) and I was able to tell him in feeling messages how I felt about what the family was going through, and what the effect it had on me. The really neat thing, is I have also been practicing my listening at stage 2.. and WOW… I am terrible at it! I did not realize how self absorbed I am in my thoughts when other people are talking.. and then I realized he could tell when I was only half listening to him. So, when I truly focused on what he was saying, nodding my head, and keeping complete eye contact… he just opened up.. and he felt heard… and I felt close. It was nice. Practice.. practice. I wish there was a future with this man… but there is not.. I am just the imaginary realtionship, the emotional girlfriend, not the physical one… but it’s good practice for when the real thing comes along.

  176.  #176Mary Ann on October 21, 2009 at 5:35 pm

    Jennifer F, I still haven’t heard from him but I knew everything wouldn’t change overnight.
    It was wonderful though, and I hope I have the opportunity to have him open up to me and let me see who he really is.
    I am trying very hard to maintain clarity and keep my eyes on the prize..a great relationship with a great man. A guy I have known for a few months asked me for my number yesterday, he’s cute and friendly, has become a part of my larger circle of friends. If he asks me out, I will have to try hard not to feel guilty about saying yes. I am free to spend time with who I want, I don’t know why I feel loyal to someone who has made no commitment to me. I feel untrustworthy and dishonest. I need to work on this.
    Jennifer…I have to remain very conscious about listening to people in mind is buzzing a long thinking of all the things I want to say…I’m starting to realize what I have to say is not always important enough not to listen first. It can wait or just be let go.
    Oh yah.. Daria..I think I over estimated..haha..7 seconds is a long time…I think its about 4 lol!!

  177.  #177Jo-Ann Downey on February 15, 2010 at 8:19 pm

    Silence is Golden…and Pauses are Too! To listen, you must be comfortable with silence. Silence is truly an art! Also, a great practice is to pause for 3-5 seconds when you think the person you are with has completed their thought. This gives them the space to continue if they have more to share! Silence, silence, silence!