Listening To Forget Him

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Okay – everyone – Exercise:

Go to the ebook (if you don’t have it, get it now – the link to the catalog page is over on the right here – or get directions from one of these fabulous women) and do Listening at Level 2.

The first “problem” you encounter in Circular Dating, especially if you’re “carrying a torch” for some man, is “How the heck do I care a fig about this guy in front of me…” – and we usually have a huge number of reasons why we don’t care a fig.

(Linda, you have a lot of reasons – that will help just because you have a bit of a list. Here’s Linda’s comment->)

Now – spend the day just Listening at Level 2. Get curious about every man who shows up because he’s a – Messenger! Follow your feelings around – but get your thoughts off of yourself and any other problems or men and ONTO the man in front of you – whoever he is.

And then we’re going to jump this someplace that isn’t in the book – it isn’t ANYWHERE in my programs big time, and that’s Listening at Level 3.

First – let me hear about your experiences with Level 2 today – see if it relieves the intense desire to be “somewhere else” when a man you’re not interested in asks for your time and attention – if even for a moment.

See if you can give yourself over to the experience and practice opening up, the Rori Raye Dance Position…all of it.

Love, Rori

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  1.  #1Averie on February 3, 2009 at 6:05 pm

    what if you already know how you feel towards him, how you will react, how he will respond…basically it’s not going anywhere….

    even then, you still want to open up and talk???? For what???what if you already get the message and that it just didn’t feel right???

    i feel like i already gave him a chance when I first met him, it is him that MISSED that chance, i really don’t feel like giving him another chance cuz i already know the outcome.

  2.  #2heartbeat on February 3, 2009 at 6:18 pm

    I feel ENTHUSIASTIC on this topic, but I’m feeling far too tired to write much. I commented in a previous post about how I fell in love with my man all over again – just listening to him (and I was FURIOUS with him at the time, MAJORLY triggered), just looking at the way his face moved, just hearing his words. And he was talking about the news, nothing about the relationship. It felt restful. Everything changed, we connected. Men are PEOPLE, people are interesting.

  3.  #3heartbeat on February 3, 2009 at 6:20 pm

    I’m amused by the picture 🙂

  4.  #4alias girl on February 3, 2009 at 6:32 pm

    unfortunately to me not all people are interesting. HOWEVER i was just thinking today (and almost wrote on my comment to linda about the no long dates. i almost wrote that i need to find a way to be interested in what other people are saying. often i find i am not because sometimes they are

    1) complaining excessively
    2) scary
    3) unconscious and just blathering on and it wouldn’t matter who was in front of them they’d just keep foaming at the mouth.

    i feel rude saying it so crudely. this is a huge trigger issue for me.

    i am simply NOT interested in everybody. just like i don’t like seafood. some things i enjoy talking about and some i don’t. i CAN listen to complaining or lies or negativity and be polite but i feel drained after. i know we’re supposed to use authentic feeling messages but saying i feel like you are lying to me because your facts don’t add up. or saying i feel drained and covered in toxicins listening to people complain. what is best protocol? find a polite way to express that? ugh. therapy is right. and hard work. but i suppose then i would be a PRO at expressing all my feeling messages with my dream man.

    i feel afraid to say things even if they are in a polite way to strange men.

    i feel very interested in this topic. and actually i feel like a magician manifester since this was exactly what i was ready to work on next.

    i’m magic. date me. i’m magic. i’m going to add that to my profile. :0 uh, kidding.

  5.  #5Averie on February 3, 2009 at 6:46 pm

    Alias girl,

    i’m with you. the true is i don’t want to feel drained, i don’t want to express my real feelings with “the frogs”
    and i feel like if i trust my feelings and choose to walk away, i get more SELF ESTEEM BOOST than expressing authentically to the frogs.

    and the things is, i don’t think men we dates should be the only therapies for us. actually, everything in life can trigger me not just men i date. and i rather exercise on the clerks, the cashiers, the post office guy or even strangers rather than the frogs i am on dates with.

  6.  #6heartbeat on February 3, 2009 at 6:53 pm

    Alias girl, I feel even MORE enthusiastic reading your comment lol! This is an area I feel passionate about. I can turn around a complainer in less time than it takes to shake a stick. And not by being a pollyanna. Ok I’m commenting generally, not particularly men you date – and I’m looking forward to what Rori writes about Level 3 – but it’s about having no agenda, being curious, listening for the person UNDERNEATH the complaining. Sometimes just saying “I’m curious to know more about that” or acknowledging “that feels so painful” or simply “I’m wondering where you’re from – that accent intrigues me” (switch, but congruent) will enable the person to walk through their stuff and out to a better place – with you.

    I gotta sleep now!! I could write a book…

  7.  #7heartbeat on February 3, 2009 at 6:56 pm

    Self esteem

  8.  #8heartbeat on February 3, 2009 at 7:08 pm

    is the key.

  9.  #9Averie on February 3, 2009 at 7:12 pm


    U R totally right.

  10.  #10alias girl on February 3, 2009 at 7:14 pm

    ah, my comment didn’t post. it disappeared?

    i feel similar to averie. i feel confused by hearbeat’s way. i don’t want to be a therapist to frogs. not kidding. i barely want to play therapist to people i love. i don’t want to be responsible for bringing people to the other side of their profound negativity and unconsciousness unless i am teaching a seminar or something. i feel like being in the presence of people who’s presence i enjoy and cherish. vice versa.

    otherwise i just listen and try to be as upbeat as i can. but like when i had that girlfriend date with my unfun unfriend. it was god awful. i literally did not exist to that woman. trigger. i feel triggered! 🙂

    also like averie said i can practice in short bursts with all kinds of people in my life not just on dates where i feel i am trapped with a frog. (NO LONG DATES!)

    trigger trigger trigger. this is such a huge TRIGGER issue for me.

  11.  #11alias girl on February 3, 2009 at 7:15 pm

    i feel triggered!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  12.  #12alias girl on February 3, 2009 at 8:28 pm

    hmmm. i have a question:

    rori is there a way to pay for your programs in one payment? I feel uneasy with payment plans. i don’t want to owe money for something i already have.

  13.  #13Reshi on February 3, 2009 at 8:31 pm

    Ahh, I see we’re on to listening at level 2 with men. I’ll join you there in a moment, I’m still raging. The floodgates have opened full force.

    I am raging because I feel untouched and unloved–and because I’ve almost ALWAYS felt this way. I’ve spent MOST OF MY LIFE feeling this way. I felt furious when my husband stopped touching me, furious when I met a man for a first date and he shook my hand. I felt furious when that loser last night blew me off based on my pictures. All that made me feel discounted and disregarded and ugly and invisible and for fuck’s sake, I didn’t come into this world to have to experience so much of that for so many years for so little reason. Those men who do find me attractive find me very attractive, but the huge number of them who have treated me badly have ruined me for the good ones. Made me feel there must be something wrong with someone who would want me. And I DON’T WANT these assholes’ loud judgments to be a part of me, working against me, making me feel a ton of repressed rage and messing up my life.

    I want to feel the way I would feel if I’d grown up going to school with people of my own culture, if I’d gone through puberty in an environment with young men who were naturally attracted to my type–rather than young men who daily singled me out for (very public) cruel treatment because I looked so different. I want to have that kind of easy grace, that kind of assurance and expectation that OF COURSE men are going to treat me well. I don’t even know what that would feel like but probably the opposite of how I really feel around men.

    Yeah. I want to feel like I can just lean back and relax in the rowboat and male attention would just come to me the way it’s SUPPOSED to. I want to have memories of guys asking me for my number, asking me out, showing up at my door with flowers, my mom having to chase them away with a stick (like she always said she would, she doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with my looks, I feel fortunate to have a mom like that). I want to have memories of guys always smiling at me, opening doors for me, flirting with me and treating me chivalrously. And good quality men, not just the derelicts on the street who paid attention to me in my real past. I want to have memories of having had nice boyfriends in high school, having had good love relationships throughout life.

    That would feel like the kind of self-assurance that comes from Always Being Loved. It would feel like always having men around to hang out with, always having a date for every dance, having them fight over me. That would feel like NEVER, EVER, EVEN THINKING of Leaning Forward. Like that thought would never cross my mind. How could it cross my mind when I’m at my center and a hundred men are circling around trying to get to me? I could have my pick of the 100, why would I need to LOOK for a man or try to GET one? My Friday night date told me I didn’t need, and I wanted to ask him what world he was living in because I want to live THERE.

    I want to feel Effortlessly Beautiful. That would feel like looking in the mirror and liking what I see. It would feel like being completely conscious of the beauty of my body and its movements, the effect it has on men–and feeling At Home in the beauty. It would feel like being attractively dressed, in shape, hair styled attractively, wearing jewelry, and NOT APOLOGIZING for the effort I choose to put into my looks, feeling I have a right to my maintenance, rather than being forced into a competition of who looks the best in a t-shirt and jeans and no makeup because I believe that’s the only thing a man judges us on. (I actually believed that for quite some time and it made me feel bad.) It would feel like being Centered in my own unique beauty and sensuality, and welcoming in those men who DO appreciate it, and not wasting half a thought on the men who don’t. That would feel good. 😀

  14.  #14Ann on February 3, 2009 at 8:43 pm

    Rori, I’m intrigued to here about your level 3 listening. For me I feel this post is suggesting to practice level 2 listening with men I meet anywhere. Even when I’m not interested, to try to hear.

    If I can do this I’ll be able to hear a man I may be interested in hearing when he speaks. I feel this will build me up too.

    I’m interested in seperating myself from the other person. I’m not quite sure how to explain what I mean. I’ll keep reading.

  15.  #15Melissa on February 3, 2009 at 9:09 pm

    Thank you Rori. I will try listening at level 2 tomorrow..get out of my head. I can practice it on my 3 year old! I do use feeling messages with him. Generally he listens; and sometimes changes his behavior. Hes so cute the other day, he made a comment.. Mommy, you are dont have a husband.. Can I be your husband?? Sweetest thing anyone has said to me in ages.

    RE: online dating.. does anyone have a profile to share.. a Rori style profile..? Melissa

  16.  #16alias girl on February 3, 2009 at 9:20 pm

    ohohohohoh i am eating dinner at this little place and i think i may give my number to the guy behind the counter. he’s too young. i’m leaning forward. he might not even be single BUT IT WOULD BE A HUGE EXPERIMENT FOR ME. i’ve never been so bold. i might i might i might.!

  17.  #17Daria on February 3, 2009 at 9:27 pm

    Im feeling a little guilty because I just did some listening at level 1 or maybe 0 today. the guy from the im called me, we had a date tonite and I canceled, because I don’t want to see him too much, I’m feeling a little suffocated and I really want to go out with one of my girlfriends and meet some new men (which is what we were doing) and I know that my meeting with him would have made me late for that and I would have missed it.

    BTW we “made up” as he calls it last nite, he was really funny and trying to turn me on. Which he does not. He is so dorky. I feel guilty for not feeling turned on. I feel annoyed a little too. I feel grateful that overall this was a great learning experience for me yesterday and it did turn out nicely too.

    Then this guy who I used to date who I’m also not attracted to called me and I talked to him half listening while I was reading this blog. Oops. Then I got to the post and said uhoh.

    WHY are we listening at level 2 with these men again? Lol. I know it’s so we can maybe feel connected. I feel weird ! I don’t want to tell them: I feel turned off and kinda disgusted. I feel judgemental around you. I feel annoyed. I feel SO TURNED OFF And I feel guilty that you think you will be able to turn me on, which would feel nice but I KNOW YOU WONT. It doesn’t feel like you will right now. Crap.

    I did not even engage with my dance class that much, which I love, maybe because I only ate protein and was feeling really anxious about possible bad things that could happen in my life (I feel glad I got a chance to notice how certain food affects me this way).

    I feel kinda small and crumpled and am going to uncrumple now. I just uncrumpled. I feel like I’m on a not so good vibe. I feel kinda worried… and that feels like downturned mouth, like sighing, and I love my downturned mouth and sighing… that feels like tightness in my jaw and I love the tightness in my jaw… that feels like tightness in my left side and I love the tightness in my left side, that feels like smiling a little and I love my smile, that feels like staring out eyes and I love my staring out eyes, that feels like smiling some more and my head tilting to one side and I love my smile and that feels like yawning and I love my yawn, that feels like being stuck in one place and I love my stuckness… that feels like tingling in my toes and I love my tingles, that feels like ickiness on my skin and I love my ickiness and that feels like I want to shower and that’s a good idea… that feels liek a big yawn and that feels like pinching in my right chest near my armpit and I love my pinching… that feels like another yawn and I love my yawning and that feels like hmm smiling and I love my hmm and my smile and that feels like being stuck and I love my being stuckness… and taht feels like more yawning and I love my yawns… I really feel like showering right now and I feel rushed to get ready to go out… and that feels like blank staring eyes and leaning back in my chair, and I love my blank eyes and that feels like hotness around my neck and I love the hotness around my neck… and thtat feels like more smiling and I love my smile… and that feels like yawning and I love my yawns… ant thad feels like pressure in my right shoulder and tingling in my left cheek and I love my pressure in my right shoulder and the tingling in my left cheek… and that feel like pressure in my mouth and I love the pressure in my mouth… and that feels like huhmm smiling and I love my hummm smile and that feels like yawning again… and I love my yawns… that feels like pinching in my right cheek and I love my pinching… I feel RAGE at this guy with the IMs last nite, RAGE because I feel like I DONT WANT TO SEE HIM ANYMORE, because I FEEL BORED AND ANNOYED AND I DONT FEEL ATTRACTED TO HIM… and I wonder If I should tell guys straight up that I don’t feel attracted to you sexually and I really like being treated nice like a lady so I want to continue dating you… hmmm… could be an option… and that feels like pouty lips, pinching in my right cheek and rigid body and I love my pouty lips, pinching in my right cheek and rigid body and that feels like yawning and I love my yawn… that feels like squeezing on the bridge of my nose and I love the squeezing on the bridge of my nose, and that feels like smiling and I LOVE My smile and that feels like yup like YAWning and like twinging near my vagina so maybe it is my vagina although its really kinda on top… I feel that sometimes and never quite figured out what organ it is or whatsup with that and thats ok… I love my smile that I am smiling right nowand I love my yawns… I feel alittle embarassed to be yawning so much and I love my embarassment, that feels like more twinging on my right cheek and I love that… I feel pretty relaxed now and that feels like dizzyness and pressure on the back right side of my head, and pressure on my right cheek boen and even my left and in my throat… and I love my dizziness and pressure… and my beack of my head, my throat and cheekbones and taht feels like squeezing on the inside of my thigh and I love the squeezing on the inside of my thigh… and that feels like tingling and hotness in my right cheekbone and tingling on the right side of my butt lol… and I feel like smiling and I love my tingling on my cheekbone and on my butt and that feels like squeezing in my throat and I love the squeezing in my throat… and that feels like blanking out and I love my blanking out… and taht feels like closing my eyes and I love my closing eyes… and taht feels scary like maybe I’m tired and won’t be able to go dancing which i really want to… and that feels like tingling down my spine and I love the tingling down my spine and on top of my vagina… and I love the tingling on my right armpit too and in the center of my right foot… and that feels like laughing a little bit and almost yawning and I love my laughter and almost yawn…

  18.  #18alias girl on February 3, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    i feel love for reshi. i want the same thing she’s ordering!

    melissa i love that what your son said. that is so cute!

    i feel very interested in not making other people a part of me. then i won’t feel so threatened!

  19.  #19alias girl on February 3, 2009 at 9:40 pm

    daria i feel laughter with your feeling messages to guys who don’t turn you on. i know it’s not a joke. ok now i feel bad. maybe misunderstood. i feel weird. i don’t feel like riffing right now in this cafe.

    i don’t think i’m going to give my number to that man. maybe. only as an experiment though bc i am not interested if i have to make the first move. but maybe i would be. i’ve never done it so i am basing my decison on not enough information.

    ugh. i don’t feel brave enough anymore. maybe i will just as an excercise in rockstardom and courage. ugh!

  20.  #20Reshi on February 3, 2009 at 10:13 pm

    Oh I am RAGING!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am so fucking angry. A man is paying all this sweet, masculine attention to a woman on the bus and no one is paying attention to me, and she is so fucking happy, and he is so fucking happy. I want to smash all their faces in. Fucking people. Where’s MY attention? I ran away from it. I constantly run away from it. Everything about me that could get attention, I cover up, I hide it under a bushel, I destroy it or let it die from disuse. If I won’t pay attention to me how the fuck is anyone else going to pay attention to me? I want attention on me. I want MY attention on me. I want to feel good having my attention on me, and I want to feel good having other people’s attention on me. And I feel scared, because I feel that when other people’s attention is on me it is always negative. I feel fire spreading across my back. And I love the fire, it feels a hell of a lot better than the numbness of a couple nights ago. I want to just stand in the fire and feel it.

    I want attention on me, lovely male attention on me, with them leaning forward and looking so happy and excited, and thoroughly enjoying the moments they get with me. I feel fire going down my arms and my back and I feel my face just shutting down, this dead mask coming over it with dumb, dull eyes. I want to feel as unselfconsciously alive as the fucking blonde on the bus who’s getting all the attention. But I feel so angry that if someone were to give me attention I would hit him, or shut him down.

    Wow. OK. My rage session got interrupted by my having to get off the bus, put the cell phone away, and walk a mile to my car. And you better believe I raged all the way. You never saw an old lady walk so fast, I would have been running if I hadn’t been carrying a heavy, awkward bag. I broke a sweat in this 10 degree weather.

    And it occurred to me–how am I going to listen to a MAN at level 2? I interrupt men ALL THE TIME because I WANT TO BE HEARD TOO. I’m always interrupting and then apologizing for it. It feels so awkward. And I come to this blog because NO ONE listens to me in real life. I can’t even imagine being able to let go like this to a real person. I’ve always been able to listen when they came to me–until recently; since my marriage blew up I’ve felt overloaded.

    I talked to my father last night and he complained that he doesn’t know what’s going on with me because I never call him to talk about it. I wish I could. All through childhood and adolescence I never felt heard or listened to by him, and barely felt heard by my mom. I’m crying right now. Thank God, I can fucking cry! That felt good, like something melting that had long been frozen. I think I will give my dad a call and see what it’s like to be listened to, since he has opened the invitation. All through childhood I was expected to listen, but there was no one to listen to me. My husband listened to me when he was my boyfriend and that felt so new and wonderful that I promptly fell in love. But when the wedding rings were on, the listening stopped. I thought that was just a fact of life, that the listening and the romance and the love would stop as soon as the wedding rings were on. FUCK! Wow, I feel so calm and peaceful now, just being heard, just remembering how good it felt to have Daria and Alias Girl and Bethany acknowledge me last night. Sometimes I feel like everyone is all “there goes Reshi again, can’t she shut up and listen to someone else for one second?” No, she can’t lol…not right now…but I promise this phase won’t last forever. I feel better.

    LOL. Damn. I feel like a social retard. I LOVE what Melissa’s son said to her. He knows what she deserves. Right on. And I might have a Rori-style profile, look up hello_makani on plentyoffish and tell me what you think. Unfortunately it’s also a Reshi-style profile so it might be a stretch to apply the details to your unique situation.

    OK. NOW I feel I might be able to give level 2 listening a try. Details tomorrow.

  21.  #21alias girl on February 3, 2009 at 10:40 pm



    so i wrote my name and # on a napkin and was going to give it to him and as i was leaving he said don’t go i’m going to take my break. and then i slid my napkin to him. omg. so he would have made a move.

    HOWEVER. i am old enough to be his mom. no joke. he’s too young. i mean not so young that i’ll be cuffed and on the evening news young. but young,

    and then he said he’ll walk me to my car and he took my hand and we held hands.

    i feel upside down. i feel scared. i feel really really shakey. i did ok with feeling messages. not great with level 2listening. i can be really self absorbed. he was interesting too so i can’t blame my poor listening skills on hi. aikes.

  22.  #22Reshi on February 3, 2009 at 11:10 pm

    Oh Alias Girl, FUCK YEAH!

    I wish such a thing could happen for me. To meet a man, at random, face to face, and have him interested? This can’t happen for Reshi. Well, it did happen for Reshi, with a Pizza Hut waiter when she was in college, but she’d starved herself down to 100 lbs at the time, and he broke her heart.

    Of course, I did many forward-leaning things with that guy because I didn’t know any better. You’ll do HELLA better.

    I want random strangers to make moves on me, though. I feel jealous.

    Ahem. Let me amend that to CUTE AND NICE random strangers. Gotta be careful what I wish for because I usually get it…

  23.  #23alias girl on February 3, 2009 at 11:38 pm

    hiya reshi. thanks for the fuck yeah! i hadn’t read your comment yet bc i was in my car omg-ing and my phone died. then i got home and recharged it enough to get back onhere.

    you are so on the path to your dreams reshi. i can FEEL it. there will be a day when you feel your beauty and you leave a trail of broken hearts in your wake. i know you are beautiful.

    and i hear you. i read your comments. i am along for your journey. i am listening to you. write away. 🙂


  24.  #24Reshi on February 4, 2009 at 12:03 am

    I feel loved and accepted by Alias Girl, that feels so nice. <3

  25.  #25Maria on February 4, 2009 at 12:10 am

    AG l feel so inspired by your story:))

  26.  #26alias girl on February 4, 2009 at 12:41 am

    aw i feel loved, loving, supportive and supported. 🙂

    yes i have made up my mind to circular date and so i pot myself back online just to get the ball rolling. i don’t even read their profiles when they write. i just look at the pix and if they don’t scare me and i am not utterly repulsed i email back and tell them i feel interested in getting to know them.

    and so then the cutie pie showed up in my emailbox last night. we’ve been communicating since then. i don’t see much coming of it.BUT I CAN DATE HIM. why yes no problem having a cutie pie in my rotation. and i just figure i’l do quick coffee dates with these guys. to practice. so i guess that boosted my confidence a little and it just occured to me that maybe i wanted to be daring while i was in the cafe. i mean he was os cute.(hi daddy 😉 ) but anyway it was really weird. but i don’t put much emphasis on any of them really. and at least now my mind is off my ex! yae! i feel experimental. and then the one guy online wanted to text and he’s just being all weird but it’s all just fun to me.

    but definitely the guy at cafe was a fun experience. but i feel like there is something wrong with me to date someon almost half my age. i almost fell off my chair when he toldme. i told him i needed my napkin back with my phone #! but i feel i will be judged by society. damn my phone keeps dying

  27.  #27heartbeat on February 4, 2009 at 1:41 am

    I feel ANGRY. I feel so much rage around here and I feel suffocated by it. I’ve had my share of rage at men and I want to own that.

    When I read words like ‘frogs’ etc I feel uncomfortable and sad. It feels judgemental and disrespectful to me, and I feel sad when it falls into daily use.

    I’m here to learn how to let a man get close, I’m here to heal myself in a relationship and stop me sabotaging it.

    It’s not doing therapy on anyone else, it feels good to me to be curious and interested in others, including men.

  28.  #28Maria on February 4, 2009 at 3:07 am

    AG l think it was a good experience and you dont need ot consider as a date, however l was just thinking that those random “real life” things may be really inspireing!

  29.  #29alias girl on February 4, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    i feel worried i triggered heartbeat. i feel worried heartbeat and i are triggering each other. i don’t want to make people angry on purpose. i will try to take a little more time between being triggered and responding so i am not so careless with what i say. what i wrote was my true feelings as of then/now but i used heartbeats words and threw them back bc i was triggered.

    people come from different experiences and backgrounds with listening and being listened to. this is a major trigger issue for me and i can feel my temperature rising just writing about it. i feel angry for all those years of sitting on my hands letting people who didn’t care about me just talk at me. i let them.and i have not fully forgiven myself yet.nor do i have great communication skills now. i feel very willing to learn and experiment though.

    i like when i get triggered by other women on this blog. it feels like a do-able level of discomfort.i don’t mean i like it and want more of it. i just mean if i have to start learning how to cope with my own stuff in real relationships that this is a really good place to do it.

    i feel a little weird and unsure.

  30.  #30alias girl on February 4, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    i’m sorry heartbeat for using your words and throwing them back into my comment in a careless flippant triggering manner.

  31.  #31AZ on February 4, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    Alias girl,

    this is a forum where people feel free to express their feelings and viewpoints…

    i think u are totally justified with being angry at the frogs, and i think not wanting to be a therapy for them is very reasonable because it is true that most of the time they would just drag you down

    and i believe that one very effective way to boost self esteem is to trust ur intuition and not put up with any rude behaviors( after u express ur feelings to them)

    i think self esteem is THE ONLY SOLUTION. so focusing on ourselves on what WORKS and what DOESN’T is only going to favor us. and i think the reason why u don’t want to be responsible for the man’s well beings is because most of the time you already know what result would come of it—from ur past experiences and u trust ur judgments to walk away from it. i really believe that would result in u STRENGTHENING ur self esteem.

    and that Rori often says “you don’t have to trust a man, you just have to trust yourself.”

    so trust yourself.

  32.  #32heartbeat on February 4, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    Hey Alias Girl, I don’t feel I need an apology, we were both expressing our feelings in our own way, just as you said! I admire your transparency and I could feel the force in your words. I feel honoured reading your story.

    And I’m alongside you in this process of responding, being triggered etc! I felt so unwavering in my feelings about this topic of listening, that for once, I felt ok expressing my passion and anger without feeling any of us were going to be mowed down. It feels like a real challenge for me to hold my sense of self in any group, and this blog is a group, with scary group dynamics going on – as you said, real-life practice for relationships.

    I’ll post this before reporting back on my listening exercise today. And I feel a bit fizzy too, like I feel when my plane is landing (no, not my PERSONAL plane – easyjet!) or like a bambi on wet legs 🙂

  33.  #33heartbeat on February 4, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    I’m on a different time zone to most of you. It’s late evening here; sometimes I stay up til early morning reading all the comments, especially after the weekend when I’m not online. I always feel intrigued, often desperately curious or concerned, to know how everyone is doing. I learn so much! Sometimes I feel quiet or delicate, other times passionate or playful. Sometimes I feel like reading, other times I want to throw myself into writing, into engaging. I feel like those quiet times are where I’m processing at a deep level. I feel ‘alongside’. Then I’m ready to join in, express, experiment with new ways of being, get triggered or uplifted or feel myself morphing in unfamiliar ways.

  34.  #34Averie on February 4, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Alias girl,

    this is a forum where people feel free to express their feelings and viewpoints…

    i think u are totally justified with being angry at the frogs, and i think not wanting to be a therapy for them is very reasonable because it is true that most of the time they would just drag you down

    and i believe that one very effective way to boost self esteem is to trust ur intuition and not put up with any rude behaviors( after u express ur feelings to them)

    i think self esteem is THE ONLY SOLUTION. so focusing on ourselves on what WORKS and what DOESN’T is only going to favor us. and i think the reason why u don’t want to be responsible for the man’s well beings is because most of the time you already know what result would come of it—from ur past experiences and u trust ur judgments to walk away from it. i really believe that would result in u STRENGTHENING ur self esteem.

    and that Rori often says “you don’t have to trust a man, you just have to trust yourself.”

    so trust yourself.

  35.  #35heartbeat on February 4, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    I had an opportunity to take part in the exercise today. I’m glad the topic came up, cos it also gave me an opportunity to really NOTICE what goes on inside me.

    My man is in a bad place for him today, he hates being short on work and having to sort out finances in a way that feels humiliating for him.

    Earlier we talked on the phone – he said he wouldn’t come over this evening, he was feeling awful.

    I went straight to a gut-wrench, a fear reaction; but HEY I CAUGHT IT so much sooner than EVER before. I didn’t feel amazing, fabulous etc – just still, then bumpy, then still or warm, then fizzy and so on. I remembered Rori saying ‘go to where he is’ (something like that) so I just listened to ALL of him, his voice tone, his words.

    I heard my Nasty Voice coming up, the one that says I’m foolish and needy, the voice that turns into ‘he doesn’t care about me, it’s all about HIM’ and then back to ‘I’m hopeless, unattractive’. I felt my own voice tense, I sank into my solar plexus, relaxed my throat and felt much easier.

    The whole process felt like a wave going on in my torso. Writhing snakes – I recognised some of them: bad memories.

    I can’t remember the whole conversation, I don’t feel I have a script to offer, but my words came easily from this better place, and I felt my natural curiosity return, so it was easy to converse between moments of anxiety. AMAZING – I realised HE sounded anxious too! I heard a wavering in his voice I haven’t really noticed before. He always speaks so carefully in modulated tones that I often get triggered into a ‘less’ place, even though I KNOW he lacks self-confidence beneath his exterior.

    I’m thrilled I’ve caught on to this process inside me. relationships are a minefield for me. I’d been with clients all day doing lots of listening at level 250 yet I’m still a wet-legged bambi on the home stretch!

  36.  #36heartbeat on February 4, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    I want to add that being in a bad place for my man means he feels angry and fearful. When I pick that up I feel TERRIFIED. So today was a big deal for me. I managed to get feeling messages in (but I chose NOT to say ‘I feel terrified’ in-the-moment; I morphed to a different place; I had a scented bath later and soothed, it felt absolutely the right thing for me to do).

  37.  #37Linda on February 4, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    Hi all, Hi Rori… I think I really know the difference between listening and hearing. I am gonna rethink and reconsider the different level of listening.

    This is I listened and listened to this guy. I barely could get a word in edgewise but I had already decided that I was approaching this guy with an open mind and heart. I think I did, but after 10 days of interacting with him I just could not take it anymore.

    1) I was totally NOT attracted to him, but really tried to be open to him and was hoping I would be.
    2) What he said, and his delivery of it was turned me off big time.

    He seemed to like me so much… I cringed at the thought of keeping this going just as “learning experience” cause the thought of him trying to kiss me made me want to throw up in my mouth! LOL

    I am laughing at what I just typed and I laughed SO HARD at Alias girls comment about “it would no matter who was sitting in front of them they would blathering on (foaming at the mouth)” LOL LOL oh my! LOL LOL

    I leaned back and listened and listened and listened. I will try again with another when the time comes but no more to him. He is bye bye now.

    Now to forget the man I miss. It helped, and I got in touch with my small guiding inner voice again. That makes me feel right and centered again. This time she said RUN… I did He is like I said bye bye. And I am at peace.

    By the way I did not miss the direction that Rori was trying to point out here and I am paying attention ! I am always looking to improve and moving forward.

    Alias girl you made my day! What a hoot!

    HUGS Linda




  38.  #38Reshi on February 4, 2009 at 5:02 pm

    WOW Heartbeat! Your experience sounds so graceful and earth-shaking and amazing! I feel so moved by it.

    I feel afraid that I will never get an opportunity to listen at level 2 because no man wants to talk to me. It feels like being warm and centered and receptive and watching them all go straight past me to the TV or another man, because I couldn’t possibly have anything to interest them, I look like a mirror that just bounces everything back and can’t receive what they have. And I feel like that’s frozen Masculine energy in me, being misdirected and just going everywhere willy-nilly.

    I want to feel like my Masculine energy is focused, going out in ONE direction to achieve my dreams, so that it doesn’t clutter up my Feminine energy and prevent me from being able to receive. That would feel like being a beautiful, luscious flower, just being there to receive the attention of bees and hummingbirds, and then having my leaves go out and photosynthesize and make me food. Not having the flower try to photosynthesize or having the leaves try to attract bees. It would feel like my energy is appropriately aligned and RIGHT, like I’m living in line with nature. And that feels scary, because I fear I won’t survive because I’m not the fittest, I’m genetically defective, I’m not made well enough to be allowed to reproduce. Argh, missing pieces, hole in my head, hole in my head through which poison pours in. Yes, that is a defect that should not be replicated. But can it be healed, made whole?

    If I send love to the poison it becomes a waterfall. If I send love to the hole, it lets in sunlight.

  39.  #39heartbeat on February 4, 2009 at 5:31 pm

    Oh yes, Reshi – it was, it felt exactly that! Thank you for the WOW 🙂

    Your image of the lovely flower reminded me of something my boss once said to me – “when I was young I wanted to climb the tree, right to the top. Now I’m happy sitting in it playing with the leaves” – we were having a conversation on that beautiful realisation that we CAN be enough, and soak in the many aspects we can’t appreciate when we’re in a hurry.

    I’m feeling refreshed by your waterfall, and the sun pouring in. I can feel myself wanting to say YES YES Reshi – keep going, you will be noticed, you will!! I’ve been the woman men walked past too, but it really does change.

  40.  #40Reshi on February 4, 2009 at 6:51 pm

    Heartbeat, I feel good to hear you say that men walked past you before but not now. It feels good to hear something besides “women become invisible to men as they get older and there’s nothing you can do about it.” I feel like I was invisible even in the full bloom of youth and that feels painful to acknowledge.

  41.  #41Daria on February 4, 2009 at 8:13 pm

    Something cool I found from a site that teaches men how to use texts to flirt with women:

    “You see, women (especially good looking ones) tend to only want a manwhen they lose control of the relationship. In other words, theydon’t go for men they are certain they can have. Creating doubt inher mind that you can’t be together will amplify her attractiontowards you. You do this by being able to remove yourself from the situation and set up boundaries to where she gets doubtful that shecan have you.”

    Now I have thought this was my “problem” in that I don’t like a guy until I feel like he may not like me anymore, at which point he probably doesn’t any more. So I feel worried about that…

    But maybe I could try to frame it in that a man that makes me feel that way is actually realy good at rowing the boat? And sweeping me off my feet? And if I continue to lean back and receive we will both be happy?

    What do you guys think?

  42.  #42Rori Raye on February 4, 2009 at 8:38 pm

    Love this, Daria – try it and see what happens. Rori

  43.  #43Tracy on February 4, 2009 at 9:09 pm

    wow………..i feel so inspired by this post..
    Heartbeat i feel so so happy for you and your amaizing experience…..i am also struggling to listen at level 2 with virtually everyone i meet coz for me its a real problem.i always try to interject to prove my point and so its turning to be a really good practise.
    i miss my guy so much right now,i am stil trying to figure out why.i am circular dating and whenever i see something that reminds me of him i get so triggered.i feel sad i feel anxious a tightness in my stomach…i fell irky i just want to run back home and hide somewhere…
    i am really trying to catch these feelings love them and love me….its really helping but its so hard sometimes i feel i want to let go and give up!
    i feel i am learning so much and becoming a better person and i feel relieved that my life is taking a better shape…..i feel hopeful that i will find a good man and have a happy relationship..i feel that i can make it work but for now i need to improve on myself and love myself because i am a diva…i feel i need to improve my spiritual life as well…………..get in touch with that side of me….
    i feel i am in a better place now…… feels relieving comfortable happy……….it feels great…thank you all ladies for your wonderful posts….
    Linda,i feel we are going through the same experi ence and i feel inspired by your confidence and faith…i feel happy that i can relate to you and it feels so comforting…i love yo all goddess divas!

  44.  #44Tracy on February 4, 2009 at 9:18 pm

    yeah heartbeat!………..what u said about us being enough and soaking in the present time is so true!i am going to try that today and see what happens………..thanks for the comment!

  45.  #45alias girl on February 5, 2009 at 12:09 am

    i don’t feel good.i feel trapped.i feel trapped in cement all the wat up to my eyes. i was going to just get fetal in bed and just stay frozen but i decided to try and riff it. it feels like sadness bubbling under the frozen-ness. i feel like closing my eyes. oh it is sadness. i feel a quivering lip. i feel confused. tears and big breaths and squeaky noises. i feel confused by this random wave of emotion. it feels better than frozen but weird to just be crying. i feel like my vagina is dead. just dead. i feel deeper breaths. i feel tight on the left side of my brain. i feel tight behind my right ear back to my left side of my brain. i feel sad face. but confused. i feel confused. i feel like i’m in wet cement now rather than hardened cement. i feel angry in my vagina. f you. my vagina is cursing. at me? at who? i will name this aspect of myself trauma girl. she is confused and really scared and freezes up. and has a very angry vagina. i feel glad to finally meet her. i am crying harder than i ever have over any sort of breakup. trauma girl appears to be very traumatized. i just gave her/me a big hug. it’s more than just sadness. it’s trauma.i feel better. i feel like i would after something bad happened and it’s over but it’s still with you a little. like after a car accident. that feeling. i feel worn out. exhausted. tired. i feel back to frozen again. less frozen though. i feel tired. phew. ugh.

  46.  #46Reshi on February 5, 2009 at 1:46 am

    Daria’s post triggers me, makes me feel a little angry. A man who would play that kind of game is a man I don’t want. Perhaps that means I’m not good-looking, but whatever. For me to be interested, a man has to continue to lean forward, pursue me, give his energy to me. There’s a look a man gets in his eyes when he’s interested in me…and that’s what makes him sexy.

    If a man is pursuing me and I’m not interested, then he isn’t attractive to me, and he isn’t going to get any more attractive by putting himself on a pedestal and saying oh maybe I can’t be with him. I’d just be like “OK, bye.”

    I got a few opportunities to listen at level 2 today. I started out with women at work, and it was eye-opening at least; I realized how hard it is to do that! Also, I noticed something about a male co-worker who sits next to me and occasionally flirts with me. He’s the sexiest guy in the office (which isn’t saying a whole lot, since there are only 4 men and they’re either too young or too old for me) and most of the time he’s just living in his own world. But let me get really into something on the computer, or sit there and stare at the pattern of the skin on my hand, and all of a sudden he’s all up in my business. I had some fun practicing holding eye contact with him. Oy vey. I wish I had opportunities to do this with people outside of work.

  47.  #47Daria on February 5, 2009 at 3:00 am

    I feel a little triggered too. I wish I could say that unless a man is leaning forward I am not interested. I feel the opposite. Well, I mean I feel kind of like that guy described. For example the IM guy is leaning forward, contacting me everyday… he just contacted me now and I have not even read his message and don’t want to. I feel stifled.

    I remember in the past with some exes that I wasn’t that into, until I felt them pull away and then I fell in love. Hmm… but like I said I am reframing this loss of control as meaning he is rowing the boat. Nothing wrong with him knowing how to attract me, even if it does mean feeling a little out of control as long as it feels good.

  48.  #48Reshi on February 5, 2009 at 10:09 am

    Daria, it’s probably because you’re hot! 🙂

  49.  #49Sharon on February 5, 2009 at 10:28 am

    Dear Rori,

    My boyfriend just broke up with me and I am really trying hard to accept and let him go.

    Is there any particular tool for TRULY letting him go and releasing all the bad feelings I have for him?

  50.  #50Bethany on February 5, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    I remember Rori saying something like if you’re listening and your thoughts go back to yourself, like “this guy is boring, or I’M boring,” or something like that, then you have to “throw the tennis ball back” into the other person’s court, so maybe level 3 is a lot of catching yourself and gentle redirection? I don’t know. I feel like Daria has it right about that kind of guy…and oh my god, are they predictable…my boyfriend e-mailed me about wanting to be there for me and about being glad that I went home fora few days to “get somewhere stable” and I felt no interest in responding to his e-mail, even though he was being sweet…stable? I’m sorry, you’re the one with the Catholic guilt about sex (guess I should read that last anger post again) so I didn’t…and then the next day he called me all worried because he hadn’t heard from me…this was my first instance of truly NOT feeling the urge to jump toward him energetically when he reached forward to me, and I have to say I feel a little guilty for it….I feel like I’m being a bitch and that if I’m not super nice to EVERYONE then he will get hurt and slink away with his tail between his legs and I’ll be culpable for being destructive…I am afraid that I am capable of causing people pain, I am afraid of my power, but I want to embrace it…I feel scared that if I don’t validate him he will move away from me…I want to feel that I can be a rock and trust my boundaries to not have to care for his feelings and everyone else’s…I can breathe into all my tight spots and trust that I am not falling apart, and I won’t even if I do things or DON”T do things and people take it the wrong way…I want to become financially viable on my own and I want to use my creativity and natural emotional, introspective, intuitive, sensitive capacity to help others…I want to use the power I have not to hurt myself but to throw the tennis ball out there and experience the world at level 3…that would feel really peaceful, and it would turn down the racket in my head, all the million TVs playing Bethany’s infinite soap operas would be quiter, and that feels like I just want to lie down and take a nap. That feels like a pretty relaxed body, and I love my relaxed body.

  51.  #51Bethany on February 5, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    Daria, I feel like that too…it feels almost like a turn-off if you KNOW they’re playing a game with you, though…like how we do things because of how it effects them, if they’re doing witholding things because of how it effects us, it just isn’t as attractive because you can feel your power over them…how does it not become a game then? I don’t know. I feel approval towards the way you reframe it and wish I could get the same perspective…it’s one more way of giving up control and not being attached to the outcome, maybe? I don’t know!

  52.  #52Bethany on February 5, 2009 at 2:44 pm

    Hi Sharon, I think any woman on this blog would tell you to go to the beginning of the Power and Self Esteem posts and work through them one by one…over and over…start writing here, it helps…

  53.  #53Bethany on February 5, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    Oh yeah, and I didn’t see any men today, but tried it with my mom last night, and it’s hard to do it for more than say 20 seconds without slipping back out of it…I feel embarrassed about all my repetitive posts, but whatever.

  54.  #54alias girl on February 5, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    i feel similar to bethany regarding daria’s post. granted i don’t want the guy all needy and clingy but i do want to feel he is excited about me and will be there for me. with my ex i can feel he is pulling away on purpose and i just am losing interest. i am dating other men. i am looking for other men. i will most likely have sex with other menm have dinners and kisses and holding hands and laughing. so while he’s pulling away i am actually moving on. i am not more interested in him. i am losing interest in him.

    sometimes men have such low self esteem that they actually won’t truly come forth until they are sure they will be rejected. whatever. i can live moment to moment and stay in my feelings and just try and keep myself in the best place i can with the best company of people i can.

    i feel extremely grateful for everyone here and their honest sharing and beauty and godessness.

    also yes sharon the self esteem series is AMAZING as a tool. seriously.


    i have a mini date with an online guy on fri. he asked me to dinner but i notched it down to a coffee date. yae for me. i am circular dating. 🙂

  55.  #55Bethany on February 5, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    Me too alias girl, I want to feel he is excited about me but sometimes I wonder if he’s only excited about me when he can’t have me, like when I didn’t e-mail him back, and I was feeling a little angry, so I wonder if I was doing it out of witholding and anger, which would be really cactus-like, maybe…so maybe I should e-mail him back and say I’m sorry for not e-mailing you back, what you said felt really sweet and I appreciate your support? I don’t know…

    Yay for your coffee date alias girl!

  56.  #56Flipper on February 5, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    Bethany – You didn’t answer his email because you honestly didn’t feel like it – it wasn’t a ‘tactic’ or anything. You seem to Think what he wrote was sweet, and that you Should appreciate it, but in fact you…don’t. Right? So leave it. Don’t apologize for something you’re not really sorry for. He’s reacting to your non reaction? That’s how it should be. If you’re feeling indifference, and that affects him, then it’s for him to try to get Your attention. When the attention he pays you feels good, encourage him. When it doesn’t, don’t. Do something better – for yourself. Sounds like you have plenty of great dreams to keep you occupied, without wasting your feelings dealing with crumbs.

  57.  #57Bethany on February 5, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    Okay, back again…I feel like I have to sit on my hands to keep from e-mailing him, I’m spinning in my head, like, oh, he reached out to me and i have to e-mail him back to let him know I care and that it felt good to read it, or else he’s going to lose interest in me…but you don’t have to be a good girlfriend!! I don’t have to be so damn sensitive all the time to what everyone else wants, I don’t need to reach out to him out of fear of what will happen if I don’t, but I don’t want to be controlling either…if I don’t e-mail him back and I don’t care, then it’s fine, but if I e-mail him back and I’m wondering what he thought about it, if he’s going to e-mail me back and validate me, or if I don’t and I’m still wondering what he’s thinking…then those options both feel bad. I want to focus on me, so I need a tool…I can feel all anxious, I can handle the anxiety, I can FEEL it, but that doesn’t mean that just because I FEEL it that I have to ACT on it and respond…i don’t have to DO anything…if he calls me and I’m around, I can answer the phone, but I don’t have to DO anything to manage anyone’s feelings…I have a long way to go before anything that feels incredibly bitchy and mean to me looks like diva behavior to anyone else…not that I have to ACT like a bitch either! Okay, I feel really scared that if I don’t reach out, he will withdraw, and the urge is making me obsess, when really, if I pull back and look at the bigger picture, it’s one e-mail, one moment, one guy, and I can fly up and see the ways I can turn around and focus on me…I feel really scared, and e-mailing him would be junkie behavior, although it would relieve the pressure and throw me into the same cycle of pining for his e-mail, text or call…stop, just stop, it feels scary to stop, I want to feel carefree, and I want to be free-spirited and light, and that would feel like my tummy lifting and things relaxing, like I was a few minutes ago, and I think I feel better now…I’m going to hug myself and love my obsessiveness and single-mindedness and do some more work…

  58.  #58Bethany on February 5, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    Oh my God, thanks Flipper, I posted this last one before I read your comment, and you’re so right…and I kind of got to the same spot before I read it, so I feel good that I might be on the right track!! I feel proud of myself…

  59.  #59alias girl on February 5, 2009 at 4:58 pm

    i feel irritated agitated impatient. i feel impatient. i don’t want to be stuck here anymore. i don’t want to be financially strapped. i feel held back. i feel angry. i feel self critical. i feel embarrassed. i feel sad. i feel hopeful that is i keep at it things will adjust and morph but I WANT CHANGE NOW! (to come in a safe harmonious pleasing happy way for me and all involved!) I WANT CHANGE NOW!. i want to have enough money to proceed with my dreams and plans and business ideas NOW! now! now! i feel irritated. i feel angry. i feel soooooooooo angry. rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. i could eat a car. rrrrrrrrr. i feel like i have big meatl jaws and could eat more than one car. i feel trapped. i feel angry. omg. i feel so angrry. wow. that feels like a rocket blast shooting up from my core near my pelvis. that feels like fire coming out my ears for miles. i feel like i have hammer hands and could destroy things. i feel sooooooooo angry. i feel so angry. i feel like i could go ten rounds in a boxing match and not get tired. i feel deflated. like someone just popped my anger balloon.

    i feel angry again. i feel like lashing out. i feel lonely too. wtf. i feel angry agian. rrrrrrrrrr. i feel like screaming at the top of my lungs and blaming someone and having it be their fault and DEMANDING THAT THEY FIX THESE UNDESIRABLE CIRCUMSTANCES. HOW DARE YOU GIVE ME THESE FEEBLE CRUMBS AFTER I HAVE WORKED SO HARD. HOW DARE YOU WITHHOLD ALL THE GOOD ABUNDANT YUMMY THINGS WHEN IT’s no big deal to have them. i feel furious. i feel like i might just catch fire right here and now by my own anger. i feel furious. how dare you! fuck. this is not turning around for me in this riff. rrrrrrrrr. i feel SO ANGRY. rrr. rrrrr.rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

  60.  #60Reshi on February 5, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    I love to feel my power over men, the way I can draw them in like a magnet. A man I married in an online video game once said to me “You own me and you know it.” I was riding high for like a year after than one, he was great. But just like in real life, he pretty much faded away once he had me. Blargh. I feel angry. Are we just a game to them? Fuck men. But it was a game to me too so I’m no better–but my real life marriage was no game! And it still felt like game over once the rings were on.
    I feel so inspired by Bethany, leaning back in that bubble and NOT hopping to responding like a good little girlfriend. I often feel that way when men email me–like oh God, this higher being contacted me and now I have to Impress him so that he likes me. NO. I am not your fucking wind-up doll. I am Reshi, I’m my own woman, and if I don’t feel like replying I won’t. (And if I DO feel like replying I still won’t because I’m scared…working on that one.)

  61.  #61alias girl on February 5, 2009 at 8:00 pm

    i feel needy. needy needy needy. ugh. this is what is beneath all my cool exterior. my f-yous. my who needs you. my i like being alone.

    ugh. ugh. i feel like a modern science miracle human vacuum just sucking up everything. please pay attention to me me me me me me me me me. please pay attention to ME.

    🙁 i feel lost. i feel like i am just floating around in outer space. that’s why i want a boyfriend. because then i won’t be alone floating around in outer space. well that doesn’t seem like a very healthy reason to want a boyfriend. well, the sex too.


    i only want to take. i don’t want to give. i don’t want to give. i’m all gived out. 🙁

    how will this work out? argh.

    i feel super embarrassed with my truth. ugh ugh ugh. ugh. blech.

  62.  #62alias girl on February 5, 2009 at 8:01 pm

    i feel laughing at all the sad faces in my comment. they look funny. ugh.

    pay attention to me. ugh. ack. ick ugh.

    BLARGH to quote reshi.

  63.  #63Daria on February 5, 2009 at 8:17 pm

    I feel frustrated… I feel worried I am not taking care of myself by accepting another date with this guy tonite. Even though he is teaching me martial arts on our date which I like…

    I feel TRAPPED AND SUFFOCATED. AAH… I wanna tell him I don’t want to date him anymore… and he’s like whiny about it like I thought u said u wanted to make it work… (im like no… that’s what YOU said)… grrrr

    i feel annoyed… I feel like I wanna go do my martial arts with him today still though… sort of… I don’t know what I want… is this my truth? yes… and that’s what I’ve been saying to him so that’s good…

    I also feel annoyed that I feel pretty attracted to this guy I was on the phone with last nite… he says he’s not ready for a relationship… he just came out of one… I feel like I want to have sex with him and I don’t want my feelings to get hurt… so I am holding back… that feels good right now I guess… I feel pulled towards him… grrr… that feels annoying too except my annoyance is not directed at him in this case…

    I feel pouty lips and heavy cheeks… and I love them… that feels like sigh… and smile… which I love both…

  64.  #64Daria on February 5, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    I just texted him… I don’t want to meet anymore… I dont want to lead u on…

    now he’s calling me that he’s by my house… we were supposed to go out … i feel BAD…

    I also feel scared… he doesn’t know exactly where I live but he’s in the general area and could maybe look for my car? I feel scared and I just texted him that because he kept calling

    ok now I feel a little bit better… he said scared of waht…and if I dont want to be friends either thats ok because friends dont play games like this… ok

    good i feel relieved… taht sounds comforting… I wouldn’t mind being his friend if it was mutual… right now I don’t want to answer though

  65.  #65Daria on February 5, 2009 at 8:37 pm

    wanted to add that a guy friend who likes me was online and I talked to him online and he was telling me I should tell the guy I dont want to see you anymore and don’t want to lead you on… and I said I tried and I felt like I wasn’t heard… and he said a guy that doesn’t hear you is not worth your time… so with his encouragement I got brave and actually texted the message…

  66.  #66alias girl on February 5, 2009 at 9:12 pm

    ahhhhhhh i am triggering myself. aaaahhhhh i feel triggered. i feel crazy. i keep thinking of the young guy i met the other night and why hasn’t he called and why hasn’t he called. omg. i feel triggered. argh. damn. i feel like if he said i want to be in a serious relationship with you i would say yes. is that wrong? that’s what i want. that’s what i’ve always wanted. i just want to be in a relationship with a man that reminds of my father. omg. do i need therapy? he was so sweet. i rarely like men and then if i do it’s way overboard and crazy and no wonder they back off bc i have SO MUCH energy going towards them.

    i feel triggered. do i need to pick someone i don’t feel addicted to?

    i feel triggered. this man wants babies asap. argh. i don’t want babies.BUT I’LL HAVE YOU BABIES.OK. LETS GO MAKE BABIES.

    OMG. I LITERALLY PU ah i was stillin caps there sorry. i literally pulled off the road to write this. i am triggered by this young man who held my hand the other night. the young man who i was going to give my number to which i have NEVER DONE IN MY LIFE. is this unhealthy?

    help. help. i feel whoa. i feel better after writing though. like i don’t know if i would admit this to any of my friends but i’m putting it here bc i want to own my truth and i want to be healthy and iwant a good relationship with a man.

    i feel confused. demi moore was with someone much younger. whatever he hasn’t even called yet. i want him to callme and say be mine. do i? yes! i feel embarrassed. i feel embarrassed. i want to believe in magic thatls why. magic happens. it does. i’ve heard magical romance stories.

    ok. i’m spinning.

  67.  #67Flipper on February 6, 2009 at 9:13 am

    I wanted to mention several things that felt kind off to me from the rather negative reactions posted to ‘having’ to listen at level 2 to a bunch of pre-judged antipathetic people. First, “therapy”: I feel there’s a confusion about just who this therapy is for. In my understanding, it is not free therapy for the speaker, however much he/she will probably get from such rapt attention. The therapy is for US. By concentrating intently on something outside ourselves, we learn grounding and perspective. Second, as in this case the something is in reality a someone, it opens up whole further possibilities for creating Empathy as well – Feeling With someone else, one of the first steps to emotional intimacy, one we can already practice developing outside a romantic involvement. And if we’re honest, real intimacy is a challenge we have often not quite managed to meet, so I feel a program of specific baby steps is most useful.

    Lastly, if we can listen this intently, discern the other’s need in expressing themself and report it back to them, they will feel Heard. Once that happens, normally they will Stop – stop blathering on, complaining, trying to convince us. We don’t even have to agree with them, just show that we’ve understood where they’re coming from and respect their opinion/feeling about it . Whether they say anything or not, I feel they will feel good about themselves and have a good opinion of us. And we will feel good about making this human connection, the one we’re always chasing for ourselves, of feeling understood.

    The message that we get from them could just be a lesson in how Not to expose our own griefs, if they did so annoyingly or incomprehensibly, but it could be anything – Be Surprised!

  68.  #68heartbeat on February 6, 2009 at 9:35 am

    Flipper – I’m so glad you expanded on this. I wholeheartedly agree!! especially the point that empathy can actually stop a person communicating in a way that’s negative for both them and us. A person ‘heard’ becomes softer and more connected. Brilliant – I feel like jumping up and down! Thank you 🙂

  69.  #69heartbeat on February 6, 2009 at 9:36 am

    Alongside ya, Alias Girl X

  70.  #70Desiree on February 6, 2009 at 10:15 am

    Heartbeat, self-esteem really is the key, and I need to work on that. I also need to learn how to pause and FEEL before I offer my opinion.
    My boyfriend works as a cashier and got a raise yesterday. He called me late last night to talk and told me about it. I told him congratulations and he voluntarily let me know how much it was. He has been with this store for 5 years, keeps getting accolades in the corporate newsletter, and has been Employee of the Month several times. So when he told me what it was ($.70/hr), I said, “Well, they’re showing you a little appreciation for all you do.” And I emphasized the word little. Eep. What I meant was that given how long he has been there and what a good worker he is, that raise is little in comparison to the promotion they should’ve given him years ago but refuse to award. We’ve talked about the store and the unfair compensation before. His raise is actually good, especially given the economy, but I had to (unintentionally) make it seem small. This is made worse by the fact that I make more money than him and his ex-wife, who also made more money than him, made it a habit to make him feel bad about himself because of that.
    I’m walking on eggshells. I’m freaking out. I called him this morning to try and clear things up and all that did was wake him up before his alarm. I apologized for that over and over again and I’m just a mess. I’m a little neurotic and tense and usually dwell on occasions when I put my foot in my mouth a lot longer than I should. I’m really going to try and be easier on myself and learn how not to RESPOND all the freaking time. If I had just stopped at “Congratulations,” I wouldn’t be going through this. Things have been going so well lately (he’s opening up, calls nearly everyday, I’m using feeling messages and he is actually getting it, etc.) and it’s like I’m sabotaging it. Does anyone know what I should do?

  71.  #71alias girl on February 6, 2009 at 10:59 am

    i feel interested in this discussion and everyone’s different viewpoints. i feel curious because everyone seems to have had such widely varying experiences throughout their lifetime and so each has an emotional reaction to the topic.

    i feel especially interested in what rori will say about level 3 listening. i even tried to cheat and googled level 3 listening on the internet but that phrase did not specifically come up. but i did read some articles on listening.

    i feel it an ultra challenge to listen to someone when i feel misunderstood or my feelings have been disregarded. so those moments are challenging. i also feel challenged to truly listen in situations where i am nervous or meeting new people in social events. also when i am angry. and also when a past history with someone shows me i am just being used by that person and it is not and has never been a reciprocal relationship. i also feel challenged to listen if i feel i am with a scary man.

    i feel very interested in this topic and am looking forward to hearing more about.

    i feel interested in reading everyone’s comments with an open mind.

  72.  #72Rori Raye on February 6, 2009 at 11:19 am

    Desiree, Welcome, and please try to stop beating yourself up. We all do this. Just do the Tools, practice them. This is about the 4 Rules. This is where it all starts for you. Read them over and over, and practice them EVERYWHERE.

    The Lesson here is – if you are this quick to want to put him down – if you think about him in a judgmental way (and we ALL do this) – then you are for sure doing to YOURSELF, as well. So try to start catching you being judgmental about yourself, first – and that will help. Love, Rori

  73.  #73heartbeat on February 6, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    Hi Desiree – I can so relate to that feeling of anxiety over ‘saying the wrong thing’! But it seems you only did what just about everyone does in conversation – which is responding from your view of things (that he deserves more). Let the moment go – that’s the best thing to do, and go and do something good for yourself, that way you are in a better place to respond to any fallout (if there is any?).

  74.  #74Flipper on February 6, 2009 at 5:29 pm

    I feel glad that Alias Girl and Heartbeat want to keep digging into the topic of really, conscientiously listening to another person. Particularly Alias Girl’s list of challenging situations where she would have a particularly hard time putting someone else’s need to be listened to first. I feel that it cannot work under those conditions, so it’s pretty pointless to try in those moments. One seminar I went to talked about what to do when people are ’emotionally flooded’. At times when people are triggered or overwhelmed by their own strong feelings, there’s just no excess capacity to process much more, especially coming from another person. However right, rational, obvious, demonstrable the new info is, the person triggered just can’t absorb it. So if We’re the one who’s in so much turmoil, this is not the moment to choose to try listening to someone else at level 2, especially if they’re the ones bringing this on! We must concentrate on ourselves and getting our own bad feelings taken care of. (Use the other tools, like walking away or a feeling message). If the other person is the one who’s freaking out, don’t bother with a solution to their problem or bring up your own woes at that time, and nor

    try to make light of it, be too upbeat or deny their problem. Learn to listen for what their issue is, and restate it to them as simply and succinctly as you can to see if they agree that that is what they meant to say. I feel practicing with new people must be easier, before the emotional stakes start to complicate things a lot more.

    Remember, baby steps, and getting our priorities right: our own needs first, and only then can we properly meet the needs of others. If we’re listening at level 2, it’s because we’re ready to do it And we’re willing to in order to get to those important messages .

  75.  #75heartbeat on February 6, 2009 at 5:46 pm

    Flipper – I don’t feel I’m digging, I just appreciate your writing more on the subject! I feel so passionate about it I hardly know where to begin 🙂

  76.  #76heartbeat on February 6, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    so thank you.

    Away for the weekend now, so love and hugs to all XX

  77.  #77alias girl on February 12, 2009 at 3:13 am

    ooooh flipper i just read your comment just now. (i don’t always get to the back comments from my cellphone) that was good to read.

    exactly. yes i feel so grateful to have read that. thank you. i realize after reading what you wrote — my unfun female friend who can not listen for the life of herself. she is always emotionally overloaded like all the time. she probably doesn’t realize it but that’s what it is. she is constantly triggered and criticizing the way other people do things (ok hello exaggerated mirror and yes i take after my father who was the same way) but she is an exaggerated version. and always on overload and being triggereed left and right and unconscious about it. so finally i can have compassion for those types of people. phew. a lifetime of just being triggered myself by people who are being triggered. hehe. yes it seems funny now. not funny in all those painful moments of taking it personally.

    ah fantastic. it was so worth it to get triggered right here on and by this blgo because i’ve made headway on a painful issue that has plagued me my entire life.

    that’s pretty powerful flipper. do you realize how powerful you are? 🙂

  78.  #78alias girl on February 12, 2009 at 3:17 am

    also i’ve been loving this level 3 listening. so much more enjoyable and less stressful. also it leaves space to check in with myself to see how i feel. level 2 is far too intense for me on a regular basis and that’s what i was doing. and also what i wanted back but now i’m not annoyed if someone who is listtening to me gets distracted for a moment by something or someone in the surrounding envrionment. it doesn’t feel like a slight so much as just an overall awareness of what’s happening.

  79.  #79jat on February 12, 2009 at 12:58 pm

    Daria, I loved what you said here:

    “But maybe I could try to frame it in that a man that makes me feel that way is actually realy good at rowing the boat? And sweeping me off my feet? And if I continue to lean back and receive we will both be happy?”

    What is your conclusion here? Have you found this to be true? I ask because I’m the exact same position with a guy and it’s hard to know what to think about it. Is he a good boat rower, or is he blowing me off?!? I feel anxious and worried about it.

    Thanks for the new perspective. 🙂

  80.  #80Daria on February 12, 2009 at 6:14 pm

    Jat I don’t know – I definitely like a guy who keeps me interested. However the advice on the site for guys was to contact the woman, so they were definitely initiating, yet making himself seem confident and funny by using these “teases.” Which would actually feel cool I assume because it woudl feel interesting, fun, and no pressure.

    I don’t know exactly what is going on in your situation… what do you mean is he blowing you off? If you feel bad instead of challenged that would be a red flag for me…

  81.  #81jat on February 13, 2009 at 5:29 pm

    Hi Daria,

    You asked: “what do you mean is he blowing you off? If you feel bad instead of challenged that would be a red flag for me…”

    This is from your post above:

    “Creating doubt in her mind that you can’t be together will amplify her attraction towards you. You do this by being able to remove yourself from the situation and set up boundaries to where she gets doubtful that she can have you.”

    He’s creating doubt in my mind that I can have him. So I’m wondering if he’s doing on purpose in order to attract me more, or is he genuinely not interested in me anymore.

    We’ve only been dating a few weeks, but he has said SO MANY little intimate things to me, things that really made me feel good, and also made me think that he was FURTHER along in the emotional connection than I was!

    The attraction is very strong on both sides, but we had a disagreement on Sat/Sun. I then got the “I’m not ready for a relationship” speech Sunday night. I called him Wed to apologize, because I saw how I let my anxiety create the disagreement. He seemed to take it well and told me he’d call and we’d go out. It’s now Friday and I haven’t heard a peep from him.

    Part of my stress is related to Valentine’s day… I honestly could not care about the day this year, as our relationship is so new and I don’t want him to feel pressure about it, but if he doesn’t even call then what am I to think? So I’m back to my original question.


    Also, I’m starting to think that I’ve been TOO available. To eager to take his calls, to available for dates. Maybe he hasn’t had to work hard enough and is getting bored?

    *sigh again*

    I think time will tell and I need to practice patience. I just hate the thought of losing him. He makes me feel so good when we are together. I’ve told him this too. And that’s part of the problem…. I would LOVE to spend more time with him, but we both have kids and busy schedules.

    Thanks Daria.

  82.  #82Daria on February 14, 2009 at 1:58 pm

    Dear Jat,

    What I posted was from a guy’s “how to text women” advice site. The suggestions were to TEXT something like… oh… you can’t cook! you may not be my type? or something along these lines, but mostly AMUSING! It is a FLIRTING technique! A woman receiving these would I imagine feel excited and happy to see the man later, not genuinely worried or concerned.

    You feeling insecure and especially getting the “I’M NOT READY SPEECH” is TOTALLY DIFFERENT!

    You must do RORI 101:

    1. Lean Back… do NOT call, text, initiate contact, even to say you are sorry, tell him he’s awful, ask him to burn you a CD, NOTHING.

    2. Feel good – do something that feels good. Especially go to the side of the blog and do Rori’s Power and Self Esteem lists and posts, one by one, one per day. That will teach you how to feel your feelings, express them and allow them to change = Riff which is the main tool we work here on this blog. Do NOT worry if you have been doing too much. Just stop doing anything right now. Do NOT criticize yourself.

    3. Circular Date – let other guys take you out, feel your guilt, uncomfortableness, excitement, whatever, but keep letting more and more men them date you

    If he calls you, and you WANT to talk to him and is CONVENIENT for you (you are not in the middle of a date, movie, bath) ANSWER. Be Warm! Say Hi! If you feel horribly angry, say so.

    4. POWER SPEECH him! This means you write out all your feelings about him, then remove any references to him. In your situation mine might sound like this:

    I’m feeling weird. I feel bad. I was feeling so close to you and I feel disappointed to hear what you said about not being ready. I feel attracted to you and I don’t want to pressure you, so I want to lean back and take care of myself for awhile, I don’t want to be in a situation where I my feelings are getting hurt. What do you think?

    Then say it one line at a time. It’s not a flood. It’s like sharing, maybe a piece will get left out, but the feelings will get shared. Since you are not texting, calling, or initiating, he will have no choice but to come forward if he wants you in any way. And you will be busy circular dating. This will 1. make his attraction grow for you. 2. Make your self-confidence grow.

    Tell us how it goes! Post on the newest posts if you would like more people to see what you are writing because sometimes it’s hard to find these back posts.


  83.  #83jat on February 15, 2009 at 12:18 pm

    Thank you Daria. I’ve been doing everything you suggested except the last one. So I will think about what to say, and when or if he calls, I’ll tell him.


  84.  #84maxine on June 13, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    Listening at level 2 and getting curious seems to only be provoking arguments in my relationship..what am i doing wrong…LEAN BACK!!

  85.  #85Rori Raye on June 13, 2012 at 3:58 pm

    maxine- can you give us an idea – an actual “transcript” of what you mean by “curious” – or describe how the experience goes to where you think he starts to feel provoked, or the argument starts…? Love, Rori