Love Forever is Just a Bunch of Dating Moments Strung Together

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Circular Dating is the “laboratory section” of “Love 101.” It’s practicing “in the field.” It’s Research and Development.

If you can look at Circular Dating as gathering data instead of as trying to make something happen – you’ll move much faster, feel much better – and actually have fun!

Circular Dating is a mindset, a complete sort of “reframing” of the whole idea of “dating,” an attitude, with a very nuts-and-bolts way of working your life in public.

Here are some ways to think about how to USE men in your life to HELP you – instead of trying to “get” from them the love, affection, attention and commitment they should actually be REQUIRED to WANT to give to you—in order to have the privilege of being with you:

1. Keep reinforcing the mental and intellectual idea to your MIND that Circular Dating will help you UNDO your old patterns

The idea is: Your old ways of thinking, feeling and responding to men, the way you’ve been trained to “be” with men – have all been working AGAINST you.

And you want to cut-and-paste all your instincts, skills, behaviors, words –everything to do and say that expresses yourself out in the world.

You want to jettison some of your old systems of relating and responding and speaking and doing and being, and you want to shift some of them. And some you want to completely reverse.

And still, we don’t want to beat those things you’ve been thinking, doing and saying up.

We don’t want to judge them – we want to BUILD WITH them. To USE what you’ve already got in your personal warehouse. To FIND a way to use them. We want to use EVERYTHING you’ve ever learned, ever known, ever seen, ever experienced – to HELP you get to a NEW place.

We want to make MORE of you – not less.

For instance – if you’re going on a car journey – knowing how to drive is helpful (even if you have to re-learn and re-do some driving skills…).

2. Keep convincing YOURSELF of the elegance of this fact: That to undo old patterns that aren’t working – you have to discover and uncover those patterns.

What you’re going for here is a string of “aha” moments.

Convince yourself of the truth that – Getting new information and knowledge into your head, processed with your brain, through analysis and thought will do you only so much good. ( We all know how frustrating it is to KNOW something but just not be able to shift it…).

Make it up, if you have to, until you have the actual EVIDENCE (and you will, quickly, as you Circular Date with this new mindset) to keep you going – that this will be true for you:

3. To undo the patterns once you’ve discovered them – You have to EXPERIENCE the little discoveries with your whole mind/heart/body/spirit.

This means you have to:

>>>Welcome – in fact INVITE – being triggered.

>>>Be constantly in “investigation” mode.

Ask yourself questions like “How do I feel?” and “Why am I here” and “who is this man and why is he here in front of me?”

>>>You have to catch when you’re giving to “get”

Because your being a “giving” person will make any man who is a natural “giver” NOT be attracted to you!

A man who wants to give needs a woman who is willing to receive. And for most of us – love only feels like it’s happening when we give.

And so we have to practice.

4. Circular Dating is all about your practice.

>>>First – simply practice NOT giving (this is where the “toads” come in very, very handy for practice, because it makes not giving easier, less intense, less scary).

>>>Then, you practice RECEIVING… which looks and feels like you opening your heart.

(This step requires a man a little more attractive to you than a “toad” – but not so attractive that it makes opening your heart too intense, chancy and scary.)

So – again – you don’t really need your dream man to show up right away for your practice. (He will, anyway, when you least expect it, and you won’t likely recognize him as your dream man right off anyway.) The thing here is for you to NOT stop practicing when he shows up (or when you think it’s him showing up).

The thing is to practice for life.

And all along the way of practice:

5. You’re going to feel stuff.

You’re going to feel stuff you want to feel (thrills and chills and fun) and stuff you don’t want to feel (…well, grief, for one thing…, because as things change and you start down different roads that will lead you to new, love-filled places…you feel in limbo. In Transit. You feel grief for the old road. Really, truly, we do feel grief at leaving our old roads behind).

That’s why:

6. Circular Dating is “school.”

It’s “Love 101.” It’s – “How did I get to this place marked “No Love” – and how do I switch course and get myself to the place marked “Plenty of Love?”

Forever is just a bunch of moments strung together. One after the other. And the only way to experience that is to start treasuring the experiencing of MOMENTS. Each one, one at a time.

So, if you have an experience with a man – even a 10 second encounter – I want you to HONOR that. I want you to investigate what went on during those 10 seconds – and be curious about what happened, about the man, and about you. The way to break the old patterns of behavior is to try new ones.

And then …yes …you’ve opened up a new door in the pathways of your life.

You’ve opened up a place where you can choose between behaviors, where there may never have been a choice before.

Yes, you may be attracted to “bad boys,” you might go down some wrong roads, you may get stuck, you may go so far into great new things you scare yourself silly – but you can choose to not feel helpless before all that and just keep going to Circular Dating School.

It’s a home study course, and you are the teacher, the manager and the student. Love is your field of interest, and men are in the field.

Men are all in the laboratory out there, And because they’re participating with you in your home study course – they are both the elements of it, the experiment of it, the study subjects of it and your teachers of it, your free therapists of it, your providers of experience of it, your study partners of it, your messengers of it, your school friends of it, your lovers of it. They’re the backdrop and the action and the population of your “story” every moment of every day.

Use them as they wish to be used – for the good of love and for the good of you. If you’re always practicing speaking the truth – then what is good for love and good for you will be good for them, too.

Don’t ever hold a man up higher than you hold yourself. Practice letting the men in the field into your heart until you feel so solid inside that the fear of letting ’em all see who you are just drops away.

Love, Rori


  1.  #1Nicole on April 11, 2010 at 10:04 am

    That’s so insightful!!! Circular dating is like a big experiment to unlearn old patterns, learn new patterns and find one man who fit me!!!

    Experiment #1:
    Leaning backward with men

    Experiment #2:
    Expressing my true feelings

    Experiment #3:
    Dating two to three men at the same time

    Let’s see what are the outcomes!! Thanks for the motivations.

  2.  #2heartbeat on April 11, 2010 at 11:09 am

    I’m going to print this off and put it in a new folder. It’s a BRILLIANT prospectus and I feel excited to be enrolling, clear and inspired to keep on course, and ready for my assignments πŸ™‚ xx

  3.  #3mary on April 11, 2010 at 11:13 am

    Thank you Rori. I appreciate this encouragement as I’m just getting out there again.

    I will not listen to all my friends who are my age who tell me that men are not looking at women in our age bracket.

    I have no use for that thought, so I discard it.

    I will not listen to all my friends who insist that I use the currency of good looks to snag a man, and that that currency is rapidly dwindling. I will not look in the mirror and tell myself that I have nothing to trade.

    I have no use for that thought, so I discard it.

    I will laugh at the words, “There are no good men out there.” I will believe you, Rori! My friends are just scared and disillusioned and wanting too much. They’re the ones who say that.

    I have no use for that thought, so I discard it.

    I am Bilbo Baggins! I am on my adventure! The ring on my finger is my sex drive. Will I throw it away? Will I keep it and let it destroy me? Or what will happen to the ring?

    I’m pressing forward. I can’t wait to find out.

  4.  #4mary on April 11, 2010 at 11:30 am

    Cuz maybe another option for the ring will present itself.

    I’m excited like Bilbo was, almost to the bursting point. I want to throw an AWAY party for Mary!

    “Far from the misty mountains cold, to dungeons deep and caverns cold,

    I must away, ere break of day, to seek the pale forgotten gold.”

    Gold that is found in every person, male and female. Gold in every experience, fun or not.
    Gold in every moment of life.

  5.  #5heartbeat on April 11, 2010 at 11:39 am

    Yeeha, Mary!! xx

  6.  #6mary on April 11, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    Yeeha, Heartbeat!! xx

  7.  #7Rori Raye on April 11, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    Mary – this is a super cool image – Lord of the Rings, magic, the quest, the journey, the pull to the dark side, the pull to the thrilling side, the fear — what an epic!! Love, Rori

  8.  #8mary on April 11, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    Yeeha, Heartbeat!
    Yeeha, Dawn!
    Yeeha, Daria!
    Yeeha, Erika!

    Yeeha, everyone!!

    xx oo


  9.  #9Rori Raye on April 11, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    Yayyy Nicole! Love, Rori

  10.  #10mary on April 11, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    Yeeha RORI!

    Thank you!

  11.  #11Siena on April 11, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    I love this post. Love love love it! I recently made a commitment to be bold, and feeling bold, I’ve opened myself up to new experiences in CD. In this week alone, I have felt an epiphany of sorts. I feel liberated, flowy, like I can do ANYTHING. But I still feel cautious, because I know these wings are still young.

    But I feel so joyful! Success stories from CD this week:

    1) My man texted me something that feels delicious, gooey, yummy – I feel all tied up (in a good way) and feel like pudding at the same time. It feels so good that I don’t even want to share it. It’s mine! But I responded to him using feeling messages, and his response was amazing! (This is our first conversation in 2+ months since we broke up.) I felt heard, adored, missed, feminine, safe and like I want to jump his bones. (woah, slow down, baby steps Siena!).

    2) I spoke with an old boyfriend this week, and unknowingly attacked him with my words. I said, “do you think you’re afraid of commitment?”. He responded by attacking me back (telling me I was fat). I was sort of stunned by the interaction, until I went away and realized that — even though I was trying to be “helpful” with his current gf situation — I actually called him a coward. And he – being a man who saw an attack, counterattacked. Light bulb moment for me!

    3) I had a really fun, flirty conversation with a new CD guy who I feel an instant attraction to. I wanted to run away when he first started flirting with me, but I made myself stick in it and respond with openness, feeling messages, and flirtation. It ended up really great, and I feel good about it!

    Rori, I just love you! I feel so much gratitude and love for you for sharing this all with me. I really feel liberated and feminine, and – most of all – like I can DO this! I am feeling less and less like the total loser in love that I used to feel. I feel free and strong!

  12.  #12dawn on April 11, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    I just luv you all !

  13.  #13Natural Goddess on April 11, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    This is a wonderful post.
    I was just about to give up on circular dating…
    I feel drained by being online, I deleted my profile..
    Rori, may not be your recommendation, but it is my TRUE feeling that it’s not nourishing me or healthy for me- ok for others, not for me.
    I am sensitive, and I know there are some nice guys on there, but for the most part I feel tired, tired of processing all the different men. Even with doing my best to see them as “messengers,” I feel psychically EXHAUSTED.

    I did make a date to meet one of the men on there.
    We haven’t met yet, and over the phone during our first talk he said he thought I was “an AMAZING person.” At first felt exciting and nice to receive his attention, and he’s the first man I’ve been around who’s not the bohemian drifter type, he’s SO READY for a relationship, commitment, I can feel that.
    I can a sense of him having “it together” on so many levels-emotionally, financially. I don’t think I’ve dated anyone who really had a successful business, it wasn’t ever anything that seemed important to me, and I noticed myself feeling a new sense of being ‘held’ and safe when imagining myself with someone like that. But here’s the thing!

    From our last talk I got that eeeeeeewwwww feeling! My pic online is rather blurry, and he asked how I feel “in general” about having my pic taken.
    I said, “It depends on the scenario…”
    He said, “well like if you and I were on a walk and I wanted to snap a pic, would you be okay with that?”
    I felt uncomfortable, with his question, but couldn’t access that discomfort fully enough to express it…
    At one point I mentioned that I had a huge release in a healing session, and he said, “Well, gotta make room for me in your life!” Something in my belly just went “YUCK!”

    Then, I said I felt tired and needed to go to sleep,
    and he said, “Well…I have that really nice bedtime voice, I’m a really good bedtime companion…”
    And after getting off the phone I felt soooo creeped out! I’m thinking, this guy hasn’t even MET me in person yet, he’s already not only ‘smitten,” but also
    trying to be all sultry on the phone.

    I am not feeling certain I even want to meet him now!

    Any advice?

  14.  #14Natural Goddess on April 11, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    I just want to add too, that I googled him and found another pic and I don’t feel attracted…

  15.  #15Siena on April 11, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    Hi Natural Goddess,

    I have no advice, but here’s something to consider: to me, there is a big difference between feeling creeped out and feeling no attraction. Feeling no attraction, you can still welcome this man as a messenger or mirror and learn what you can from the interaction. Let him take you out and practice receiving from him (or whatever the practice is that this man is bringing to the table).

    Feeling creeped out is another story altogether. Then the message might be to follow your intuition and to stay far away from him.

    From what I’ve read, it sounds like you are actually creeped out, and do not trust that he has your best interests at heart. If that’s the case, please be safe and do not put yourself into any situation that will become harmful to you!!

    With love,


  16.  #16Daria on April 11, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    Natural Goddess – circular dating – you are going to do it even if you think you’re not doing it. so it might feel better to embrace it. – circular dating is just LIFE. but life from the point of … whats the message… how am i feeling?

    it feels bad for me to read that “its not for me” because what im hearing is “i don’t get it” and i want you to get it.

    its not dating.

    its living while getting in touch with your feelings and doing whats good for you

    something Rori told me when i was starting out was to make sure to REST. i too felt exhausted.

    so maybe your message is : i need rest

  17.  #17Turtle Girl on April 11, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    Rori says:

    “Practice letting the men in the field into your heart until you feel so solid inside that the fear of letting β€˜em all see who you are just drops away.”

    Man is this a good one! Indeed! I just did that in the last week. I have a CD man I have had 8 or 9 dates with. Had sex a couple times. Then it got weird.
    I was triggered. I got drunk and sadly– called up my ex toxic man. pathetic.
    It went badly. He got nasty.

    *sigh* ok i guess i needed the final brick on the head.

    But anyway, with my CD man, he called me a couple days after I talked to toxic man and I was not myself. I was feeling sad and depressed. He noticed. What’s wrong? he says–
    So I told him. I told him about the toxic shit I had been through and how I never wanted to do that again with another man. Now all the “rules” say men do not want to hear about past relationships. But you know I just do not care about the fucking rule any more. Fuck it, I wanted him to see me raw and honest and real and feeling what ever it was I was feeling. It was a test, could he handle it or not? It he was empathetic-then good, a good man. If not and if he judged me and put me down or made fun of my feelings, then fuck him, he is wrong for me.

    He told me I was rude and inconsiderate for telling him about my past relationship!

    WOW! So-I then told him this:

    >>>>>Example of what I would have liked to have heard back from you John:

    “Gee TG, I am really sorry you had to go through that. That totally sucks. I had a girlfriend once who was shut down like that, it drove me crazy. I hated it. That kind of thing hurts. I could never tell what she was thinking, she kept all her feelings inside and I always felt disconnected to her. You can’t have a healthy relationship with a partner like that. Your thoughts on how relationships should be match my own. It’s so cool to meet someone that feels the way I do.”


    Even a simple “Sorry you had to go through that.”


    any other response similar that implies empathic understanding.

    anything other than what I got which just felt angry.

    I would never intentionally say anything to you to make you feel bad or be rude or inconsiderate. I am feeling shocked by this.

    I wrote to you and risked being totally vulnerable, open and honest with my feelings about what was going on with me. I thought I was being respectful by being truthful. I feel vulnerable. I feel scared to talk to you now.I feel unsafe to share my feelings with you. I feel unheard. I feel confused.

    I feel judged and discounted. I feel attacked. I feel like what I was trying to convey and my feelings about relationships do not matter. I feel misunderstood. I feel hurt. I feel like holding you and slapping you at the same time.

    Wow. <<<<<<<<<<<<<

    So that was it. And right now, right now,
    Right now-I don't give a shit what he thinks about me. After all sirens-you can't say the wrong thing to the right person, now can you? I am feeling wonderful and powerful and grounded and like I was totally authentic and honest and said my feelings. I feel glad. I am liking myself right now.I feel grateful for the opportunity to see if he passed the test as a grown up man. He did not. He failed it. So NEXT!

  18.  #18Lori on April 11, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    Natural Goddess,

    I agree with the others. I felt so overwhelmed by all of the attention from men I wasn’t attracted to in the beginning and I kept comparing them to the way I felt about my ex and that drained me even more. At one point I posted on here that my ‘river of men’ was infested with toads, snakes and alligators lol.

    I’ve been CD for a year and a half now, and have gone through periods where I just took a break. A few days, a few weeks, whatever it took to make me start feeling good again. Usually these periods were transition periods in my rewiring and transforming myself.

    What I did find was that after each of these breaks, the new CD men I started attracting were better quality men. I still had a few toads, snakes and gators try to crawl through the cracks, but they became fewer and fewer over time. Now all of my CD guys are great guys, and one of them is definitely stepping up and writing me poems and love letters and telling me I’m the girl of his dreams. He’s not the emotionally unavailable or bad boy type I used to be attracted to, but I actually feel attracted this time. I feel like my idea of attractive is now being rewired to nice, normal, emotionally available men who can actually give me a real relationship.

    My advice: take breaks when you’re tired and get back in there when you feel better. It may help to ask yourself why you’re feeling tired with the men in your rotation now. Do they have a similar trait that’s draining you? I had a period where all of mine were boundary pushers, which showed me which boundaries I needed to be stronger in. I regularly deleted and added men in my rotation and even “cleaned house” and got rid of all of the existing ones and got all new ones once.

    Another thing that helps is the short dates. Meeting guys for a quick cup of coffee, lunch or happy hour isn’t as draining as full on dinner and a movie dates. Plus, if they’re just messengers, you can sometimes figure out the message in less than an hour.

  19.  #19Lori on April 11, 2010 at 5:41 pm


    YAY for you for being raw and honest. The CD man sucks and he failed the test! He does NOT make the cut! NEXT!

  20.  #20Daria on April 11, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    I feel like i was beating natural goddess over the head. i feel afraid. I want to feel good. thank you.

  21.  #21Lori on April 11, 2010 at 6:13 pm


    You are awesome. Your posts are always so real and honest and helpful. Sometimes we have to tell each other what we don’t want to hear in the name of honesty. But we all only grow from that. You get to practice being open and honest and NG gets to hear real true honest advice that will help her in the long run. You should feel good about all you give to others on here.

  22.  #22Daria on April 11, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    Lori – wow that feels GREAT!!! yay!!!! BIG SMILING GODDESS HEERE!

  23.  #23Siena on April 11, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    Hi Turtle Girl,

    I feel a little insecure as I write this because I don’t want to make you wrong about anything you wrote. But, since I’m “in school”, I want to respond to what you wrote. As a newbie Siren I read your post with mixed feelings. I feel happy for you that communicated your feelings to your CD man and I feel dismay because in my estimation, you were telling him what to do, which wouldn’t be siren-like.

    I wonder (and please, someone correct me if I’m wrong, I’m still tweaking this in my own life!) if it would have been better for you to leave HIM totally out of it and instead say something like, “I feel judged and discounted (and all the other feelings you wrote). I don’t want to be in a relationship where I can’t share my past or what has hurt me. That doesn’t feel good to me. What do you think?” and leave it at that?

    Also, the “you can’t say the wrong thing to the right man” triggers me. I believe that you can’t say the wrong thing *about your feelings or yourself* to the right man, but certainly you can say the wrong thing to the right man and have him walk away, right? Things like, “I slept with your brother. I never want to have sex with you ever again…” Those types of things – even to a good, *right* man – might compel him to walk away. What do you think?



  24.  #24Turtle Girl on April 11, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    Do not fret. I do not get my feelings hurt that easily here on siren island. i appreciate any and all input.
    i am here to learn and heal and grow. i am here to be real and be raw and feel and figure out my stuff.

    Obviously saying “I slept with your brother” is not the kind of thing I meant. Orna who writes on here often I believe first said that comment about not saying the wrong thing to the right man. I am sure she meant our feelings, when she said that.

    Your way of saying this:I don’t want to be in a relationship where I can’t share my past or what has hurt me. That doesn’t feel good to me. What do you think?” and leave it at that? sound good. I basically told him that, only not as concisely or as clearly, i am still learning how to do this. I thank you for your comments and I learn from everything everyone here has to say. xxoo

  25.  #25Siena on April 11, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    Thanks TG, I feel really relieved that you received my post in the spirit I intended! I actually have tears in my eyes, because you were so gracious about it!!!

  26.  #26Lucy on April 11, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    Turtle Girl! I feel impressed with what you did (#17)! Wow.

    Daria – “circular dating is just LIFE. but life from the point of … whats the message… how am i feeling?” Well, now, if THAT”S what CD is, then I didn’t stop doing it. πŸ™‚ I’m just not going on “dates” any more. Unless some day I feel like it. Phew! So I’m still circular dating after all! Yay, I don’t have to feel like a rebel anymore. Thanks, Daria!

    Lori – “Plus, if they’re just messengers, you can sometimes figure out the message in less than an hour.” Agreed! And sometimes you can figure it out without even meeting them!

  27.  #27Daria on April 11, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    Lucy – how about going on some dates now with MEN. =)

    men are great to practice with when we want to have great relationships with MEN

  28.  #28Daria on April 11, 2010 at 7:36 pm

    Mischievous Goddess

  29.  #29Daria on April 11, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    this is my favorite part:

    >>>First – simply practice NOT giving (this is where the β€œtoads” come in very, very handy for practice, because it makes not giving easier, less intense, less scary).

    >>>Then, you practice RECEIVING… which looks and feels like you opening your heart.

    (This step requires a man a little more attractive to you than a β€œtoad” – but not so attractive that it makes opening your heart too intense, chancy and scary.)

    So – again – you don’t really need your dream man to show up right away for your practice. (He will, anyway, when you least expect it, and you won’t likely recognize him as your dream man right off anyway.) The thing here is for you to NOT stop practicing when he shows up (or when you think it’s him showing up).

    The thing is to practice for life.

  30.  #30Daria on April 11, 2010 at 7:40 pm

    Lucy – to practice RECEIVING I would want to practice saying yes to dates and being taken out to fun stuff

  31.  #31Lucy on April 11, 2010 at 7:52 pm

    Daria, Daria, Daria. lol. Do you know that I have a separate email folder with your name on it where I save comments of yours that come through that I especially like? πŸ™‚

    I have gone on plenty of dates with men, and gotten plenty of practice. Learned tons of great stuff. πŸ™‚

    I practiced saying yes to dates, I practiced receiving (which is really easy for me), and now I am practicing saying NO to dates — which is NOT easy for me. πŸ™‚ But I am getting better at it!

  32.  #32mary on April 11, 2010 at 7:55 pm

    Oh, uh oh!

    I found this thing on Plenty of Fish that said “See who selected YOU as a favorite” and clicked on it. There were tons of guys on there! So I emailed every one of them and just said, “Hey there…”

  33.  #33Lucy on April 11, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    And Daria, you’ll be happy to hear that I am right now making plans on fb chat with the Mailman who I promised a second date to a couple weeks ago. He gets in under the grandfather clause cuz I said yes to him before I quit saying yes to dates.

    So, hmmm, I wonder what message I’ll get from him this time? πŸ™‚

  34.  #34mary on April 11, 2010 at 8:19 pm

    Well, I’m feelin chatty and no one to chat with at the moment. And I haven’t read all the comments yet. But I’m having such a night!

    I rented a condo and it has a pretty view. And I’m a photographer, so I took lots of pics of the view, just because. And I got a note last week that the woman who owns the condo is coming into town. She’s never seen it, because she bought it pre-construction. So I got her a beautiful card with purple flowers on it, then I bought some purple flowers, and I’ve spent about two days cleaning, cleaning and cleaning, and I just got some new plants and they have such pizazz. And I’m gonna put a sign on the door that says “Welcome Home,” as she’s gonna retire here and live in this unit. I think she’s gonna be so pleased! I’m super excited about it. I printed out pics of the view so she can take them home with her to her snowy, dreary home which is east of here. Wish I could see her face when she comes in! Oh, and I baked my Mary special sour cream cake, and I’m gonna cut strawberries… and I have this amazing lavender oil scent thing that makes it smell like a spa. It’s a little place, but it’s pretty. I feel happy, excited, very pleased.

  35.  #35Daria on April 11, 2010 at 8:19 pm

    Lucy – lol i feel flattered at having a folder for me!

    just say YES! unless it feels terribly icky!

    Daria feels like im PUSH PUSH

    don’t say no say yes!! hehe. and tell us about it and the messages!


    feeling like PUSH PUSH doesn’t feel good!!


    i dono wat to say except taht

    I feel distrustful reading the post about going on plenty of dates. it feels like being gracefully sidestepped or and it feels like floating above a bubblesphere and looking in through the glass!

    i feel concerned. i dont want to see you to evade and fight whats good for u woman!

    i feel mistrustful reading that receiving is easy. receiving comes AFTER saying no. we say no to say yes.

    i feel frustrated.

    i feel kinda powerless here.

    i feel worried that i will just be sidestepped.

    yah im feeling judgemental and frustrated.

    i feel like shaking you!

    i feel unheard and like my help is not being Received.

    ufff trigger

    mom quotes “the world is hard. your dad will always be this way. ill never be an exhuberant person. people are bad. no one will look out for you. everyone has ulterior motives.”

    geeezzzz!!!! yuck it feels so hopeless…

    no mom theyre just your beliefs, they suck

    No BUT… thats my experience.

    i feel sad.

    i wish Lucy would stop resisting and do the tools… and i feel hopeless that it won’t happen, and i feel drained

    i feel judgemental of myself

    i feel untrusting of myself. i feel like ima master manipulator who makes people look bad and makes people ashamed (trigger much)

    i love myself

    i love my shame

    i love my hopelessness
    i love my drainedness

    i love my frustration

    i choose to have healing and happiness

  36.  #36Simply Shannon on April 11, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    Wow. #5 “in transit”. Hammer meet nail. Wow.

  37.  #37Daria on April 11, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    wow mary sounds amazing!!!

    i feel curious how do u make mary sourcream cake

    i feel afriad of asking stuff now hehe

  38.  #38mary on April 11, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    Oh! just one more thing.

    Is “I just know” allowed on Siren Island?

    The guy who was getting a divorce told me about a month ago that – SURPRISE – he was waiting for his wife to file for divorce. I said, “DIdn’t you tell me she filed in SEPTEMBER?” which is what brought me to Rori’s site – see Halloween’s post last year. And he said “Yes, but she retracted it.” He didn’t tell me that small detail.

    He is my lover from college, that I didn’t marry because he wasn’t a Christian. But he became a Christian when his wife had an affair. Then she had another, and another.

    We were in touch only because we said hello on our birthdays every year. And his son was killed in an auto crash. And my husband left me alone in Canada.

    Anyway, Soignee said not to be in touch with him. And not to explain anything. And I ignored his emails. And he called last week. And again on Friday night. And Saturday night. And Saturday night he asked me to please call him.

    So I called him today.

    He said he was gonna file on Wednesday. And I said, “I don’t want to talk with you again unless you’re a happy man. That means happily divorced or happily married. That’s gonna take some time. So goodbye…” And he completely understood. Soignee, I didn’t explain anything.

    But I just know.

    I just know he’s the one.

  39.  #39mary on April 11, 2010 at 8:29 pm

    Sour Cream Cake

    2 C Sugar
    1 C Butter
    2 eggs
    1 C Sour Cream
    1 1/2 tsp. Vanilla
    2 Cups Flour
    1/2 tsp. Salt
    1 tsp. Baking Powder

    350* 45-50 minutes Do not overcook. The secret is in undercooking it! Trust, trust, trust… I cook mine in one of those circle pans that comes apart. Bundt cake pan? Something like that. This is a never-fail cake. I take it everywhere. And everyone LOVES it!

  40.  #40mary on April 11, 2010 at 8:35 pm

    Oh! I always, always put in more vanilla! I LOVE vanilla and I get it from Mexico. And the last batch got confiscated because I had it in my carry-on bag. Never again!

  41.  #41Siena on April 11, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    Okay Mary, I felt chills when I read your “I just know” post. Here’s why: I’m writing a book of short stories of how people met the love of their life. I go into elderly homes and interview 80 and 90 year olds about their love lives. There’s so much I can write about this, but… you’ll have to buy the book (haha, JOKING Sirens).

    Anyway – when I ask the question, “what made you decide to marry this person?” the answer is ALWAYS, “I just knew.”

    I mean ALWAYS. Even Rori had that “I just knew” moment. I think she talks about it in Modern Siren. It seems to be a universal thing.

    So, I’m not sayin’… I’m just sayin’!!!

  42.  #42mary on April 11, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    So instead of 1 1/2 teaspoons, I put in 2.

    Just to clarify.

  43.  #43Lucy on April 11, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    Daria, I feel sad and confused that you don’t think I am doing the tools.

    I feel sad and frustrated that you think I am “resisting.”

    I feel actually perplexed and puzzled that you think these things, because they are not true.

    “i feel mistrustful reading that receiving is easy. receiving comes AFTER saying no. we say no to say yes.” Daria, I had lots of practice saying NO when my marriage was falling apart. I always have had strong boundaries, and saying NO near the end of my marriage strengthened my boundary-making-and-keeping even more. I also had lots of practice saying NO when I dated before my marriage. During that time I had lots of practice receiving as well. Over the last six months, dating more men, I have practiced receiving and saing yes. It’s easy for me — just sit back, let him do everything, open up, take it all in. Now I am back to saying NO, because I DON’T WANT to spend my time going on dates with men just to have to tell them NO later on. I am practicing saying NO right off the bat.

    I am not evading what is good for me!!! I am doing and receiving what is good for me! That’s just the point! This IS what is good for me. I feel confused about why you don’t see that.

    I feel so confused about what you wrote, Daria. πŸ™‚

  44.  #44mary on April 11, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    Oh! SIENNA!

    Thank you for telling me that!

    I’m hoping on this one. He was such a lover! Oh, yes!

    Maybe I will have a ring that will balance the heavy weight of my Bilbo ring.

    We gave each other promise rings when we were young. I still have mine! He’s from South Dakota, and they’re black hills gold. They’re just alike. I bought his and he bought mine. And we wore them until we broke up.

    I just know, eh?

  45.  #45mary on April 11, 2010 at 8:41 pm

    I can’t wait to read your book, Sienna! And you can put my story in it when it happens!

  46.  #46Lucy on April 11, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    It feels really icky reading “i feel hopeless” in regards to me. πŸ™

  47.  #47Lucy on April 11, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    It feels like when my mom doesn’t believe me that I am doing well and am happy– because she thinks my life sucks and I SHOULD be miserable based on the external circumstances. She doesn’t understand that happiness comes from within and from loving myself.

    It feels icky to not be believed about my own life.

  48.  #48Siena on April 11, 2010 at 8:49 pm

    Mary, you have a deal! And we’ll all celebrate with you when you say, “yes, I will! I do!”

  49.  #49mary on April 11, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    Ummmmmmm… thank you. And in the meantime…

    We’re all in the meantime. Oh, here’s an eery thought: “What if the meantime was all there was?”

  50.  #50Daria on April 11, 2010 at 8:59 pm

    Mary – i just know is NOT allowed.

    please see post above where Rori says you will not know at first

    (mischievous goddess)

    but seriously i just know is what throws us off the bridge.

    unless its i just know im gonna have my happily ever after witha great man

  51.  #51Lucy on April 11, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    Yesterday I was feeling a little sad about TN man not stepping up, and I was working in the kitchen, and my ex-husband came in cuz he was there to mow the grass for me (oh, there’s an example of me receiving — eee-zzz!), and I was randomly singing, “I like your lips like I like my coca-cola, yeah, oh how it pops and fizzes; you like my shirt like I like it when you hold my hand…..” and he looks at me and says, “Why are YOU so happy?”

    My daughter, sitting at the table doing her French homework rolls her eyes and says to him, “She’s ALWAYS happy these days.”

    I stop singing and look at him — he is standing close — and I say, “I’m not happy, I’m sad,” and I try to put on a sad face…. but I can’t do it! I try and try, but I can’t keep from smiling, and then I start laughing. And I realize then how deep my inner happiness really is! That even though I felt sad about TN man on the surface, there is a deeper happiness that can’t be shaken by circumstances, and that is visible and radiant to all who see me.

    Thanks for the donuts you brought, ex-man, and for mowing the grass, changing the oil, pruning the tree (yeah, I noticed ya did it!) and the rose bush. And thanks for giving me enough money for me and the kids to live on so I don’t have to go back to work yet and I can pursue my dreams and thanks for saying you want me back and will still want me back if I search the whole world and don’t find anyone else I want to grow old with.

  52.  #52mary on April 11, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    Yeah, and I don’t want to go off the bridge, unless I land in a really, really good place.

    And there is every reason to believe that I just might. Like you said, with someone.

    Okay, back to little merry homemaker mary.

  53.  #53Daria on April 11, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    Lucy –

    I feel guilty and sad that you feel sad after my post…

    you talking about having to say NO later..

    theres no way to know if you will want to say NO or YES later?

    theres only sharing feelings and truth in the moment

    because later is “thinking” and not being there in the moment…

    some of the men that you think you might want to say No later, may be ones that you will want to say YES later

    if i were thinking about having to say no later,
    it may be because i wasnt FEELING attracted to them at the moment.

    or i felt bored with them

    or i felt drained

    etc etc

  54.  #54Daria on April 11, 2010 at 9:14 pm

    MAry thank you for the recipe!!

    i feel like eating a bunch of sour cream with vanilla now!!!

    mmm sourcream pudding with vanilla!!

  55.  #55Lucy on April 11, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    Daria – OR it is not from thinking at all, but from my GUT, which is ALWAYS right.

    And that is one of the biggest things I have learned when it comes to love, dating, and marriage — LISTEN to your gut, Lucy, no matter what, because if you listen to your gut you will stay on the bridge to your happy ever after and not be sidetracked by doing things that other people think you should or that your logic tells you you should when your gut is saying something else.

  56.  #56mary on April 11, 2010 at 9:23 pm

    You’re welcome!

    Mother Mary

  57.  #57Lucy on April 11, 2010 at 9:28 pm

    Rori wrote:

    It’s – β€œHow did I get to this place marked β€œNo Love” – and how do I switch course and get myself to the place marked β€œPlenty of Love?”

    A huge part of the answer for me is “I got to this place marked No Love by not listening to my gut, and I switch course and get myself to the place marked Plenty of Love by LISTENING to my gut.”

    And by saying NO to what I DON’T WANT and YES to what I DO WANT and what is good for me.

    And by using Feeling Messages to express myself and drive the guys crazy with desire for me (works TOO well for most of the guys!)

    And by Leaning Back — so much fun!!! And such a relief!

    And by continuing to love and accept myself.

    And continuing to heal things as they surface.

    And doing fun stuff that makes me happy.

    And keeping my eyes on the horizon for my man’s ship a’sailin’ in.

  58.  #58Daria on April 11, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    i think im working thru some desire to control with help trigger thing

    i want to heal this.. thank you!

  59.  #59Daria on April 11, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    what does the thought im going to have to say no to him later FEEL like in the gut?


    i feel unsafe. or i dont feel good… or i feel icky… or uncomfortable


  60.  #60Lucy on April 11, 2010 at 9:34 pm

    GREAT question, Daria! Let me see (feel) …….

  61.  #61Daria on April 11, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    i feel glad you feel so happy Lucy!

  62.  #62Lucy on April 11, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    Hmm, with Mailman, it’s

    I feel amused

  63.  #63Lucy on April 11, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    And, I feel sad.

  64.  #64Rori Raye on April 11, 2010 at 9:49 pm

    Lucy – so lovely….Rori

  65.  #65gina on April 11, 2010 at 9:49 pm

    Whatever! I know you’re going to judge me. But I’m totally hot for this 21 year old married guy. TOTALLY. HOT. we’ve played racquetball and we went rollerblading… we flirt at work, I’ve seen him out at the salsa bars. He says he got married for papers, and that at first she agreed to help him out, but now she totally is territorial (duh.) I don’t want to get physically involved with a guy who wouldn’t be an ideal father (and I won’t) but what’s the deal with the crazy intense mind-blowing chemistry??

  66.  #66Daria on April 11, 2010 at 9:54 pm

    Hehe GINA!

    woo hoo!

    If it were me i would ask him to get divorced for me. has it been one year? or is it 5 that the papers hold?

  67.  #67Daria on April 11, 2010 at 10:08 pm

    basically 2 years. i looked it up. but if they are actually in a relationship – as seems the case and theres no fraud welll… it doesnt have to be that long…

  68.  #68Rori Raye on April 11, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    Lucy – you rock…Love, Rori

  69.  #69Rori Raye on April 11, 2010 at 10:33 pm

    Natural Goddess, I hear how sensitive you are…and let’s work with it, okay? Some people are more sensitive to stimuli – whatever it is – than others. First question for you – why is your photo on the dating site “blurry”? Unless you have a business-like reason for it I don’t know of – that sounds to me mightily like self-sabotage – and of COURSE you wouldn’t attract quality men without putting effort into your picture. Same with wearing makeup. Many of us don’t understand women who wear “too much makeup,” and why men seem to like it. (Lots of reasons – but one simple one is they can SEE it, and so it feels to them like you put some effort into taking care of yourself – that you value your presentation. I once had a great, great boyfriend who wanted me to wear more and darker eye makeup. I didn’t even quite grasp what he wanted – I thought I was wearing WAY too much. Now I get it. Love, Rori

  70.  #70Lucy on April 11, 2010 at 10:38 pm

    Thanks, Rori! πŸ™‚

  71.  #71mary on April 11, 2010 at 11:03 pm


    I LOVE dark eye makeup!

  72.  #72mary on April 11, 2010 at 11:25 pm

    Hey, Simply Shannon!

  73.  #73heartbeat on April 11, 2010 at 11:34 pm

    Mary – funny enough there is a book called In the Meantime: Finding Yourself and the Love You Want by Iyanla Vanzant – I read it a few years back. Must dig it out again, it’s in my cabinet at work!

  74.  #74heartbeat on April 11, 2010 at 11:37 pm

    This really spoke to me: “as things change and you start down different roads that will lead you to new, love-filled places…you feel in limbo. In Transit.”

    Thank you Rori xx

  75.  #75heartbeat on April 11, 2010 at 11:48 pm

    Lori – thank you for this “I’ve been CD for a year and a half now, and have gone through periods where I just took a break. A few days, a few weeks, whatever it took to make me start feeling good again. Usually these periods were transition periods in my rewiring and transforming myself. ”

    I’ve hidden my online profile because I want to use my time on two areas that feel good – transforming my apartment by purging/decorating, and getting out more to evening events where I meet new people. I want to try meeting men initially in person, see how I feel while I practice. Already this feels good and energising! And I’m still healing from a bereavement – being gentle with myself, following what feels ease-ier is new for me – I have always been attracted by ‘the hard road’, like I’ve been trying to prove to myself I’m special in that way – a ‘coper’, a ‘strong’ woman. Well, balls to that, it got me exhausted!

  76.  #76heartbeat on April 11, 2010 at 11:50 pm

    Lucy – I am practising ‘no’ also! It feels really good.

  77.  #77heartbeat on April 11, 2010 at 11:53 pm

    I feel a little nervous Daria will tell me off lol! Haha but I do have a rotation, already πŸ™‚

    Gotta go get ready for work 8am xxxxxxxx

  78.  #78mary on April 11, 2010 at 11:57 pm

    Oh, Heartbeat!

    Thank you!

    #5-In Transit. (from the post!)

    I thought Simply Shannon was talking some really cool hip talk about #5 Comment!


  79.  #79mary on April 11, 2010 at 11:57 pm

    Heartbeat, I’ll come over and help you decorate your apartment!

  80.  #80heartbeat on April 11, 2010 at 11:59 pm

    Mary – haha I’d LOVE that!!! I’ll bunk off work, kettle’s on, bring some vanilla cake πŸ™‚

  81.  #81heartbeat on April 12, 2010 at 12:03 am

    Oh one more thing – Lord of the Rings – there is a female character – I forget her name – she’s the one who marries the human hero guy (I’m hopeless with names!) – she’s an elf princess who is headed for the ‘grey areas’ or something. He finds her. Anyway I think she is BEAUTIFUL and models an enchanting leaning-back goddess vibe. I often think of her. I want to find my inner _______ (fill in the blank with name)

  82.  #82mary on April 12, 2010 at 12:19 am

    Oh… was it Arwen?

  83.  #83Daria on April 12, 2010 at 12:24 am

    Hehe I feel amused and dont want to tell anyone off. just swatting off guys half stepping up and watching project runway online hehe

    im feeling good

  84.  #84mary on April 12, 2010 at 3:53 am


    I’m thinking of going to the first meeting of the new philosophy cafe, even though I think R might be there. He lives nearby, and we met at the old philosophy cafe.

    I do not feel cool and confidant yet, I feel like I’m walking on thin ice – shaky – but with my curiosity piqued about life these days, I’m thinking I might just go and see if it’s so terrible to just sit in the same room with R.

    Reasons to go:

    1. If I DON’T go, he’ll think it’s HIS club. That will be kind of be established on the opening night. I know, I know! I could wait a year and go! I just don’t want to! I don’t want to miss out!
    2. I loved it before. It’s such a social thing for me!
    3. I can’t stand the idea that he gets to have it just because he lives close to it.
    4. I wouldn’t go if I was trying to win him back. I’d let him MISS ME. But I’m not trying to win him back. It would be great to see him once a week and not be that enthused about it. I want to become blasΓ© about seeing him.

    Reasons not to go:

    1. Ummmmm… not sure!
    2. Stay at home and pout?
    3. Let HIM have it, so he can take his girlfriends there and not worry about seeing Mary?
    4. Give myself some time to heal.

    What do you think?

  85.  #85Daria on April 12, 2010 at 4:08 am

    Mary – sounds like the its between number 2 on the pros and number 4 on the cons.

    i might go as an experiment. i feel worried that it might feel terribly bad.

  86.  #86Roses on April 12, 2010 at 8:01 am

    Hi Rori,
    I have come across your blog and website a few month ago and been reading it with interest.
    I am in a 10 year relationship and in the beginning it was great. We moved together and even talked about marriage in the beginning. Since then we have been living side by side he has done his thing and me mine. I thought things were good. We seldom fought. But I just found out that he is having an affair with a woman that seems to be sharing his interest more than I have been able to in the past few years. This happened because of the job that I had at the time. Currently I am not employed and can not get a new job in the foreseeable future, so I am financially dependent on him also. However this is not the reason why I want to stay with him.
    After each of the few fights we have had he has withdrawn more and more sex has faded out to nothing and now he is having this affair with a much younger woman. During the last fight he told me that something is missing, that he is not attracted to me anymore and though he cares he feels tied down.
    I know that everything we have had is still there but overshadowed by something and I do not know what that is.
    I would like to open him up to talk, yet it seems he can not express what is missing for him.
    In your blog and ebook I read how woman are stuffing down their emotions and I am following your tools by leaning back and not digging for an explanation. Yet it seems he is the one who is stuffing down his emotions and hates talking about them. But often I see him reacting to his emotions rather strongly and one time he said that every time he did that he regretted it later.
    How can I talk to this man that I love so much? How can I get this partnership back to what we had at the beginning. Because the love I know is still there underneath all kinds of junk.
    We seem to be at a crossroads. Either the affair is his way of getting my attention that something
    is dreadfully wrong and it’s time to work on it and take to the next higher level, or something is dreadfully not working and neither one of us wanted to talk about it, so now there’s an
    excuse for him to end it without having to communicate what is really going on. That’s an easy chicken way out.
    He is a good man and I love him with all my heart. What can we do to work all this out and go beyond the problems we are having right now?
    Can you help me with this?

  87.  #87Siena on April 12, 2010 at 9:15 am


    I agree with Daria. If I decided to go, I would definitely make sure that I did my nails, made sure my hair had no roots, was wearing something gorgeous that I looked incredible in (and like I wasn’t trying too hard), had just worked out or did something (a-hem) that removed any nervous energy that I might have, and had a big smile on my face.

    And then I would walk into that room, unfocusing my eyes, seductive smile on my face.

    So that even if it DOES feel incredibly bad, I could say, “well, at least I looked fantastic” or SOMETHING to remind myself that – even though things don’t go how I’d like them to – there’s ALWAYS something about me that is good and sirenlike. So that I don’t fall off my bridge altogether.

  88.  #88heartbeat on April 12, 2010 at 9:34 am

    Mary – YES it is Arwen – thank you!

    I found that book I mentioned ‘In The Meantime’. Have brought it home to have a read and see if I still like it.

  89.  #89Siena on April 12, 2010 at 9:34 am

    Also, Mary. I don’t know what your relationship with R was like, BUT…

    #1 and #4 on the reasons to go is about him and #3 on the reasons not to go. Forget about him – what do YOU want? What would make YOU feel good? If he doesn’t want to be with you, you going or not going isn’t going to make a difference. If he DOES want to be with you (even a little bit), then going and looking and being the fabulous siren-Mary you are will only get him hot and bothered (which is awesome).

  90.  #90Siena on April 12, 2010 at 9:37 am

    okay, haha – just read through my last post where I said forget about HIM it’s about YOU. And then I went on to explain how HE would be affected by what you do. So I made it about him. wow Ladies, I feel so silly sometimes! Old patterns are hard to break. πŸ™‚ feeling silly, feeling lighthearted and feeling very naive. But loving my naivete all the same!!!

  91.  #91Siena on April 12, 2010 at 9:39 am

    Heartbeat, I remember reading that book, and feeling very desperate afterwards. I remember not liking it. But it’s been years, so I would feel interested to know what you think about it after you’ve read it again!

  92.  #92heartbeat on April 12, 2010 at 9:45 am

    Siena – yes I’ll report back:) I remember liking bits of it first time but I’m not sure I finished it… something made me keep it in my work cabinet all these years! Perhaps it will make good tinder haha.

  93.  #93Siena on April 12, 2010 at 10:11 am

    Today it’s my turn to be chatty.

    So… on the subject of committing to be bold. Turns out the Universe (I prefer to say God) took my commitment to be bold seriously. I work in an industry where we all know each other, and we’re all in professional competition with each other, but we’re also “friends” – networking, cocktail hours – that kind of thing.

    My #1 client hired 2 companies (managed by my “friends”) before coming to me. But the client was really unhappy with the quality of work that they were given by the other 2 companies. This client is a very desirable client, and the other 2 companies scrambled to keep them, but lost them… to me. But I hid that fact that I secured the contract for a long time to avoid drama. (I didn’t seek out this client, they came to me.)

    Well, this morning, the other 2 companies both found out that I have that client’s contract through an innocent mistake one of my employees made. I haven’t heard anything back yet, but I know they’re gonna be pissed and it’s gonna be drama. (I’ve kept this hidden for almost a year now!)

    In the past, I might have felt scared about the professional and social repercussions of this, but since discovering Siren Island, I really am feeling strong and self assured! So I say BRING IT ON! This is BOLD Siena. I don’t feel afraid of success anymore!!

  94.  #94Goodheart on April 12, 2010 at 10:33 am

    Heartbeat, you wrote, “I have always been attracted by β€˜the hard road’, like I’ve been trying to prove to myself I’m special in that way – a β€˜coper’, a ’strong’ woman. Well, balls to that, it got me exhausted!” YES! That is/was so me. Why do I always feel the need to “earn” things? I want to just get them. I want them handed to me. I’m tired of working for things.

    I want them draped up on me just because I am me. The most beautious Goodheart, whose sheer presence lights up a room & all who gaze upon her & delight in her laughter…

    She deserves easiness.

  95.  #95heartbeat on April 12, 2010 at 10:33 am

    Go Siena go!!

    It feels great when the work I’ve done on myself via this blog shows up in other areas of my life, including at work. Like less stress.

    Yeah I get what you mean!

  96.  #96heartbeat on April 12, 2010 at 10:35 am

    Goodheart I DELIGHT IN YOU. For free, lol!! xx

  97.  #97Goodheart on April 12, 2010 at 10:46 am

    Wow, it’s working! Thanks Heartbeat πŸ™‚

  98.  #98Goodheart on April 12, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Do you think I am “in transit”? Because I used to get a lot of responses on the dating site & for quite awhile I had dates (or several) every week. But suddenly it stopped. They just tapered off. It went from creepy guys, to guys I wasn’t attracted to, to no guys at all. So I deleted my profile.

    I am either in transit or unmarketable πŸ™‚

    I shifted to just kind of doing my own thing. I’ve taken the focus off men. I’m volunteering at the animal shelter (where I had a Greek gentleman following me around yesterday, but I couldn’t understand what he was saying. Uh, I guess it was all greek to me!), doing meetups, & tonight I have my first Hula lesson! This feels weird though because for the past quite-some-time I was on a dating spree. I feel I should’ve gotten closer to finding someone instead them all disappearing.

  99.  #99heartbeat on April 12, 2010 at 10:53 am

    Woohoo! Goodheart πŸ™‚

    Time for tea tralala… xx

  100.  #100Siena on April 12, 2010 at 10:56 am

    Goodheart – turn it around into questions,

    “I wonder why I’m no longer on my dating spree. What’s the lesson here?”

    That usually works for me. I imagine that God is up there with a hand over his mouth because He can’t wait to provide the answer — but you have to ask first. So He almost spits it out before you ask… He REALLY wants to answer it.

    I feel weird and uncomfortable talking about God on this forum because I know that it triggers a lot of people, and I don’t want that to be distracting. Every time I write “God”, I feel like I should qualify it with “The Universe or Spirit or whomever you perceive it to be”. But that’s just A LOT to write!

  101.  #101heartbeat on April 12, 2010 at 10:57 am

    Goodheart – online dating isn’t the be-all for me, in fact I’ve hidden my profile. I’m doing pretty much as you are, I feel a lot happier and I’m still seeing results. I feel in Transit cuz I have a sense of ‘digesting’ my changes in a quieter place. And also I’m feeling very happy and contented on my own right now, but not against men showing up.


  102.  #102heartbeat on April 12, 2010 at 11:00 am

    Siena – God is just fine with me, even though I’m a Pagan Buddhist with Mystic Christian tendencies πŸ™‚

    I love your Question exercise! xx

  103.  #103Siena on April 12, 2010 at 11:12 am

    Heartbeat, I love it! This feels weird to say, but I really love God… and all the ways that people choose to welcome God into their lives! I love the “Pagan Buddhist with Mystic Christian tendencies”. I wish more people (especially women) sought out mysticism – it’s a fantastic way to be! I actually tend to believe that it’s our birthright as women to be mystic. But it’s gotten such a bad rap over the centuries that people no longer seek that.

    So however you “connect”, I love it!!

  104.  #104Goodheart on April 12, 2010 at 11:16 am

    Siena, that’s a brilliant idea. I do want to know why the dating spree has dwindled. See? I was overthinking, trying to figure out the answers. Instead I should say how I feel – let-down, scared, tired, wheel-spinning, spent, dried up, hopeful, relieved, anxious, on the verge.

    God does not offend me in any way. I was raised Catholic. Still believe whole-heartedly, but have come to a different understanding.

    Heartbeat, I’m digesting too (& for once it isn’t chocolate).

    I hope the answer to my question is, “you’ve done all your work, sown all the seeds, now sit back & wait for the blossoms.”

  105.  #105heartbeat on April 12, 2010 at 11:18 am

    Siena – yes! – have you come across Julian of Norwich? She was a Christian mystic, her writings are amazing. She wasn’t a nun, she had revelations and lived a simple life recognised by the church but not widely publicised at the time (1400s).

  106.  #106heartbeat on April 12, 2010 at 11:24 am

    Goodheart – I know I’m resting and looking forward to new and happy situations coming my way. It’s a blessed relief from the ‘nothing happens without making it happen’ stance I was brought up to believe. Besides, I’ve worked so much on myself I ADORE your answer β€œyou’ve done all your work, sown all the seeds, now sit back & wait for the blossoms.”

    I like the I Ching idea that there is a time to act and a time to pause. Most of all I’m practicing leaning back and respecting my need for rest and creativity and indulgence in all that brings me joy. Without doing something creative I’m a dead heartbeat.

  107.  #107Siena on April 12, 2010 at 11:25 am

    Heartbeat, no – I haven’t come across Julian of Norwich, but I’ll check her out. To be honest, I’ve read so much work from mystics, that I feel a little bored by it sometimes. Kinda like “oh yeah? well God talks to me too.” Because He does – and not in a creepy way. He’s available to us all if we seek it out!

    Goodheart – I was also raised Catholic (which is why I’m probably really comfortable with mysticism). But have also come to a broader understanding of what this whole thing is about.

    And I’m still discovering it. Spirituality (like relationships) is a wonderful, scary, enlightening, fulfilling path to be on.

  108.  #108Siena on April 12, 2010 at 11:28 am

    oooo Heartbeat, I Ching thing… I feel intrigued, tell me more!

  109.  #109Hypnotic on April 12, 2010 at 11:29 am

    This is my very first posting and I feel excited! I want to say Hi to all you glorious sirens.
    I have been following for a while and am feeling compelled to chime in here..There are so many great comments here….I feel like puking about circular dating……I am facing my fear.
    I am doing it Sirens…I feel genuine…
    and exhausted with it.

    It has had a fantastic impact on my relationship.
    I am in love with a man I will call Rockstar.
    Rockstar has been stepping up to the plate bigtime.

    He is Give,Give Giving…..and I am so receiving.
    We have only been together 4 months and I have been CD for 3 weeks.

    He has asked for exclusivity,as a step to marriage.
    He last told me that he better take care of me before someone else does!!!!!!

    I feel so excited and so silly happy!!!
    I feel confused as well
    I want to say yes
    He makes me feel like a Goddess
    I am the Queen
    So I want to be the Queen and say bye to messages from Girlie men and toads….

    So Sirens……
    I feel like I want to be his girlfriend
    I feel trusting enough to let him lead for now!!!
    I know he takes my feelings like a man
    My gut says get off your horse for this one.
    Do you think I need a Speech?
    I don’t feel like a speech……..I feel like I just want to eat this up!!!!…..What do you think?

  110.  #110heartbeat on April 12, 2010 at 11:30 am

    Siena – oh I feel a little crumpled! Mother Julian inspired me to feel that connection, that it was not just for men!

  111.  #111heartbeat on April 12, 2010 at 11:31 am

    Siena – ah yes (feeling excited) I Ching = Book of Changes – every moment has a quality that morphs into another moment with a different quality – kind of like what we’re doing here.

  112.  #112Siena on April 12, 2010 at 11:32 am

    Heartbeat, I don’t know what you mean by “crumpled”… And – (okay, a little “religion” here). I think where humanity went wrong was that men felt left out by the “connection” that women naturally have with the “other”. So they codified it and basically took it over. But it’s OUR birthright as women! Like Rori says, men connect to it (God, wisdom, etc) through relationship with US!

  113.  #113heartbeat on April 12, 2010 at 11:34 am

    So you throw three identical coins, which gives you a hexigram – a picture of six solid/broken lines. Some lines are ‘fixed’ and some are ‘changing’. If there are changing lines you get a second hexigram. Each hexigram has its own quality to explore.

  114.  #114Siena on April 12, 2010 at 11:35 am

    is I Ching on (haha Kidding). I’m gonna check it out – feeling intrigued. LOVE how puzzle pieces from different traditions all fit together. Thanks Heartbeat!

  115.  #115Siena on April 12, 2010 at 11:37 am

    Heartbeat, I’m gonna have to sit with your last post for a moment. Is there a visual representation of that somewhere? I need pictures sometimes. LOL (I’m an artist afterall!)

  116.  #116heartbeat on April 12, 2010 at 11:40 am

    Siena if you google it there will be tons of stuff!

    I’m feeling distracted by hunger pangs.
    Laters, sirens xxxx

  117.  #117Ingrid on April 12, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    For me personally, love was not just a bunch of dating things bunched together. For me it was just meeting my soul mate and my love and just “clicking”. Something just magically just “coming together.” I say it now as an old lady, but friends, I say there is still some magic when two hearts meet and “something” just happens. It needs no explaining. It’s magic.

    I never really “dated” all that much. I was too busy working. I always went out for drinks on Fridays, with my co-workers, and sometimes on work nites too, I always had a nice social life, with impromtu events and fun esacapades and adventures.
    But something just “happened” when I met my h now that I have been married to now for over 20 years. There was some fireworks, and indeed some explosion too great for any words. It just happened. I cannot even understand it today.

    For any unmarried women, who are looking to get married and have a family, I say, pray first, then wait for the explosion God will bring into your life, most unexpectedly I might add, as He did into mine. I was dating a handsome Scandanavian attorney like me, he was pursuing me endlessly. BUT, I had a feeling something was not right. Sure enough, amidst all the pursuing, I found out he had a girlfriend of what? 5 years? and he was chasing me? Hideous! How could he? the jerk?

    Anyway point given, let him be in love with YOU and no one else.

  118.  #118Ingrid on April 12, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    Then I became very depressed and I was also dating a Superior Court Judge who was also an alcoholic, and who wanted to marry me. I knew something was not quite right, so I kicked him out. I felt then maybe God wanted me to be a nun, and I was “through” with men. I have had enough. I asked God to show me the life he wanted for me, and I prayed.

    One week later I met my husband, who has been such for over 20 years now. And my point being, sometimes things are divine providence, if we let providence work.

    I hear so many of you ladies saying how much you want a husband and a mate for life. Listen, You are all so deserving of such. I suggest you all pray tonight, to the God of your understanding and then awake to see what miracles HE will do in your lives, as what HE has done in mine. I was ready to be a nun, and I still will, if it’s HIS will.

    Sirens: I hope you do not take offense and feel angry over my post, I just want all of us to be happy. Which we all deserve to be for sure!

    We are all Godesses.

  119.  #119Ingrid on April 12, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    AND, please let me know when God comes through for YOU. I know it will. Let me know when it does.


  120.  #120Simply Shannon on April 12, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    So I’m only catching these posts in spurts, but had to say…

    GOODHEART- post #97 describes me exactly! I was dating up a storm and then I started seeing Mr. Fab Kisser and suddenly everyone else vanished. I still get contacted a little bit by Mr. Masculine Man but seriously everyone else fell off the radar. AND I’ve been focusing on other areas of my life too. It’s like I started feeling bored with finding a man. I believe that God will drop him right in my lap and so I’ve kinda stopped looking.

    I actually believe this is what Rori talks about when we take the focus off of the men and put it on us. The desire to HAVE a man just isn’t my top priority anymore.

  121.  #121Lucy on April 12, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Interesting convo! “Non-dualist Christian mystic” describes my path. πŸ™‚

  122.  #122Siena on April 12, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    Ingrid, I don’t take offense or feel angry over your post. You sound gentle and genuine! I love “how we met” stories. And, again – there was the “I just knew” moment in your story too!

    Thanks for sharing πŸ˜‰ Siena

  123.  #123Lucy on April 12, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    Shannon – “I believe that God will drop him right in my lap and so I’ve kinda stopped looking.” Yes! That’s where I am, too, and Erika is as well.

    I feel happy and content reading this: “I actually believe this is what Rori talks about when we take the focus off of the men and put it on us.”

    What’s the scoop with Mr. Fab Kisser at this point?

  124.  #124Lucy on April 12, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    I have my second date with the Mailman tonight. Dinner, where he wants to make plans for our NEXT date! Yikes! I already know I DON’T WANT a next date, and he already knows he DOES WANT a next date!

    How can he know he will want to go out with me again after tonight???? Maybe I will not wash my hair. (JK!!!)

    Daria, if you’re reading, I will be looking for the message tonight. And, FINE, I will be OPEN to the possibility of seeing him again, even though I KNOW in my GUT he is not the one.

    (Love ya, Daria! πŸ™‚ )

  125.  #125Siena on April 12, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    SS – you said, “The desire to HAVE a man just isn’t my top priority anymore.”

    You know what? That really resonates with me too! For me, this Siren journey is more about learning about myself and overcoming my fear of intimacy.

    I already “know” that I have a man. I just don’t have the ring yet – I’m just not at that turn in my life yet. But I’m on the bridge to Happily Ever After and so all’s well.

    But the “intimacy” part is something you can have whether there’s a man in your life or not. I don’t want a relationship without true intimacy, so I’d rather get that part of me that feels fear in intimate situations (mostly) straightened out. CD is just a tool for me to do that. For me, it’s not so much about the men. If it felt fulfilling for me to “practice” on women, I would. But it doesn’t, so I won’t (LOL).

    Thanks for providing that “a-ha” moment!

    I LOVE this forum!

  126.  #126Lucy on April 12, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    Oh, and Daria, I felt intrigued by your question last night about what my gut feeling feels like emotionally, so I will also explore that tonight to see if I can identify it better. I’ll let ya know what I discover!

  127.  #127Goodheart on April 12, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Simply Shannon, I am going to make sure I’m sitting a lot so that my lap is available πŸ™‚ Thank you. It gives me hope that I’m at that turning point in my life instead of “stuck.”

  128.  #128Siena on April 12, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    Lucy, I feel curious – what do you mean by “non-dualist” in β€œNon-dualist Christian mystic”?

    Meaning no separation between body and spirit? Or something like that?

  129.  #129Hypnotic on April 12, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    I am feeling grateful for your post.
    Divine Providence are words that help me.I also love it that you say”just let him love you”..Thankyou and now I am better able to express myself.
    CD is a tool of Rori’s that does work
    so it should not be dismissed!!!
    It has helped me to be more authentic,and more fearless.
    I think that I am in a place where I am feeling my way to as you say…….letting divine providence takeover from where CD left off.
    I would not have had the courage to just let Rockstar love me without “the tools”.
    WOW……I am feeling grateful…..
    Thanks to Rori…Thanks to sirens….Thanks to tools…

  130.  #130mary on April 12, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    Okay, I’m on my knees!

    And I’m being proactive about men too. Just because.

    And I’m accomplishing goals that I set for my personal life.

    And I’m super excited about learning and growing and figuring out new things! And finding new friends, and keeping the old.

    And wow. I just got home and they LOVED my sour cream cake! I got notes from the Owner of the unit, who turns out to be a doctor in Ontario, and from my property manager, who I was NOT trying to wow. (I didn’t think it was possible, and I’m not really a wower power person. I just like to have fun.) She wanted the recipe! I wish I could have come to the party!

  131.  #131Rori Raye on April 12, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    Hypnotic, Welcome, and thank you for your lovely post…Love, Rori

  132.  #132mary on April 12, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Siena, I will keep my thoughts close to you as you wrestle with this thing at work. I know you’re in a good space! I still feel a tiny bit of anxiety about it. I discovered a little way of turning things around that sometimes works for me: I ask, “If this was your situation, how would you have handled it?” It changes the conversation and people sometimes get real.

    All the best! Keep us posted.

  133.  #133Daria on April 12, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Lucy – the post above carefully describes how Circular Dating is not at all about dating “the one”

  134.  #134Siena on April 12, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    Mary, thank you for that!

    I *am* a little nervous, because there’s a lot of legal stuff and crazyness tied up in this whole thing. And by ‘crazyness’, I mean that there’s a crazy-maker in the center of everything.

    But I’m trusting that everything happens for a reason, that I’m well taken care of and that no matter what happens, I will be okay.

    But I never turn down offers of good thoughts and prayers! I need them! Thank you!

    P.S. If I *steal* your recipe and make $1million off of it, will you be upset? LOL totally joking, but I love to bake, and so am going to try that recipe for sure!

  135.  #135Apple Jacks on April 12, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    This is a great post but there’s a trigger for me in there as well. The part about being giving and analyze why you’re giving, “are you giving to get” makes me feel shaky and confused that I could cry.

    That man I told everyone about, who I have not spoken in three months, I had got him a birthday present a long time ago. His birthday was in February but we have not spoken. I’m tired of holding on to it. I was thinking before to just go and lt him have it, either deliver it to his office or just something….but I don’t know how to go about that. I would rather make sure he gets it but that means I’d have to see him and then he might think this is a pathetic attempt at trying to rekindle something. But I have to question myself, is it? AAAARRRGGGGG I just want to SCREAM!!! I’m not taking any action till I myself know for sure and that means stuffing his stupid gift away where I can’t see it. UGH MEN! Especially the married ones!

  136.  #136Apple Jacks on April 12, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    Circular dating truly though, when put in perspective sounds like a lot of fun I must say.

  137.  #137Daria on April 12, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    Lucy –

    the message i hear personally in your ‘tweaking’ with dating is

    I’m not comfortable having a man love me without “giving” to him in return – ie. loving him too

    I’m not comfortable with men dating me and taking me out to fun places if I don’t have romantic feelings for them


  138.  #138Daria on April 12, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    Apple Jacks – give it to someone else!!

  139.  #139Siena on April 12, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    Apple Jacks – ditto Daria. Or, better yet, exchange it and buy something nice for yourself!

  140.  #140heartbeat on April 12, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    Apple Jacks – I still have my man’s Xmas presents – he opened them and left them here – and I briefly wondered about mailing them to him – but that feels dramatic somehow – so I put them in a special trunk where I can forget about them for now. Because doing anything else is saying something, and I don’t know what to say, or rather, I am letting go.

  141.  #141Rori Raye on April 12, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    Goodheart – I wonder if it could be your photos and profile that’s not attracting what you want. I’ve seen experiments in shifting just the profile get completely different kinds of men in the door…I wonder if you’d like to post your profile here, and we’ll all make suggestions? Also – every time you change something on it, it goes through a new cycle on the site. And the photo, too…you can make it an icon at and use it with your post….

  142.  #142Apple Jacks on April 12, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    Daria, heartbeat and Siena the thought did occur to me to give it to someone else. I’m breaking into it and getting familiar with it. Thank you. πŸ™‚ For now I have to stuff it away because it reminds me of him. As soon as I can figure out who, there it goes.

  143.  #143Hypnotic on April 12, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    Thanks for the welcome!!
    I am feeling a bit confused as I made my very first post earlier today and was so excited about it. It still seems to be awaiting moderation….???

  144.  #144Goodheart on April 12, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    Rori, thank you for your comments & suggestions. I actually did tweak it a couple of times in the past couple of months. I will think about posting it here. I’m not sure how I feel about that. I have been on the dating sites off & on for what seems like an eternity now & I’m feeling a little burned out.

  145.  #145Siena on April 12, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    gosh darnit Rori! As soon as you wrote that post about the gravatar, I realized I was hiding THAT too! Now I’m including it in my post. My heart feels like it’s going to jump out of my chest, my cheeks feel numb. WHY am I so afraid of revealing myself!?!?

  146.  #146Siena on April 12, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    okay – ummm… how do I get the gravatar to show?

  147.  #147Lucy on April 12, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    Daria – I KNOW that CD is not about dating “the one.” I know I know I know I know I know. I feel frustrated that you don’t seem to understand that.

    Thanks for your suggestion about the tweaking, but it’s not that. For some reason, men have always been crazy about me and I have no problem letting them admire me and adore me, do stuff for me, etc. cuz I know they LOVE it. My ex-husband, for example, is now giving to me like crazy and I feel absolutely no obligation to give him anything. Just yesterday I even flirted with him and kinda teased him and my kids said “What was THAT about?’ And I said, “Okay, I admit that time I was flirting with him. I just like jerking him around. He loves it!”

    Last night I was curious about WHY I have no trouble receiving from men without giving to them, since I’m reading on here that that is really unusual … and my Dad came to my mind. He was always very giving to me and my sisters and my mom, and never expected anything in return. Not elaborate gifts, but just little things, like cooking and serving breakfast to all of us every morning, pouring my mom’s coffee, buying us each athletic socks (he was a h.s. gym teacher/coach)for Christmas and wrapping them in the Sunday comics, taking us sledding, skating, swimming, building me a dollhouse in the barn at night in the winter for a Christmas surprise…. He taught my sisters and me that a man loves a woman by giving to her and expecting nothing in return.

    So, why don’t I want to go out with a man repeatedly if he is not “the one”? Because I would rather spend MY time doing other things. Tonight, I would rather stay home than go out. I have to leave in half an hour… just got out of the shower, am sitting here in my robe, and would rather put on loose comfy clothes and hang out and putter around the house with my son than get dressed up, fix my hair, put in my contacts, and go have dinner with someone who only mildly interests me.

    I was married for a long time to someone who only mildly interested me — that’s why I think the message is: “identify him as a man who mildly interests you and say NO to it cuz you want and deserve a man who stimulates your heart, mind, body and soul.”

  148.  #148Lucy on April 12, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Goodheart, one way to determine whether it’s your profile that’s the problem is to search through guy’s profiles and see if there’s anyone out there who you might like who is not contacting you. I did that, and discovered there was no one within three hours from me who intrigued me in the least.

    So I randomly started searching in other areas, and saw guys that I liked who lived further away. So I’m thinking about moving. πŸ™‚ Lol.

  149.  #149Rori Raye on April 12, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    Roses, Welcome, and I’m so sorry for your pain. Number one for you is WORK. And I mean the money earning kind. Even doing for extra money would be doing something …and I’ll bet you can find a few other things. Doesn’t have to be big – just enough to make you feel better. If you feel dependent on him, and he feels tied down to you – you will not be able to marshall the inner resources necessary to shift the energy. Next is Circular Dating, Dating Yourself, and creating a new “aura” and “vibe” for yourself. Love, Rori

  150.  #150Goodheart on April 12, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Siena, you & I are like twin souls. Your comments could come straight for my lips.

  151.  #151Goodheart on April 12, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    Lucy, that made me laugh “I’m thinking about moving.” Whenever I see a guy I like he’s clear on the opposite side of town. A message perhaps? πŸ™‚

  152.  #152heartbeat on April 12, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    Siena – clear your cache – history, cookies etc – then reload page and it should show. I’ll do the same… go!

  153.  #153Goodheart on April 12, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    Siena, I meant “from my lips”! lol

  154.  #154Siena on April 12, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Goodheart, LOL! I’ve actually felt the same way about you too but didn’t say it because I felt weird saying it. But it’s not weird at ALL is it?

    Geez louise! I need to get the thing out of my heart that says that when I speak my feelings I sound stupid.

    …oh, and – can you see my gravatar?

  155.  #155Siena on April 12, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    Heartbeaaaatt (she says in a whining voice) it’s not worrkkiinnngggg! Can you come over here an make it work? (LOL).

  156.  #156Goodheart on April 12, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    Siena, I have a very high weird tolerance πŸ™‚ I have to in order to live with myself! But of course it’s not weird. It’s utterly awesome.

    Can’t see your gravatar yet.

    I guess I should work on mine too?

  157.  #157Siena on April 12, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    Goodheart – yes! If I have to reveal myself, you do too! So here’s what I did for the gravatar:

    1) went to and followed the instructions
    2) Set it as my computer icon instead of that flower.
    3) Nothing else. Do I need to do something else?

  158.  #158Goodheart on April 12, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    Scared lil baby Goodheart. Afraid to show her face.

    Oh alright, Siena (kicking at the floor like a 4 year old). I’ll do it.

  159.  #159Apple Jacks on April 12, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    I like the part of the post where it says circular dating is like school. What amazea me is how much I truly learned just from Rori’s newsletters along with other people in the field and even just by that Ihave experienced this mental shift. I want more school, lol. managed to gather some money and it looks like I’ll be buyin the e-book this week, YAAAYYYY! Now when I read all of your conversations I can be a little bit more literate.

  160.  #160heartbeat on April 12, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    Sieeeennnna! Can’t see ya!!!!

    (did you match your pic to your email, the one you use here, on gravatar?)

    Tec Siren xxxxxxxx

  161.  #161Siena on April 12, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    okay, no I didn’t do the matchy matchy part. Does this work now?

  162.  #162Siena on April 12, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    My last post was awaiting moderation, I think because I changed my email? Soy confudado! Can you see my gravatar now?

  163.  #163heartbeat on April 12, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    Siena – I can see you now you gorgeous thang!!! Woohoo!! πŸ™‚ xxx

  164.  #164Siena on April 12, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    yayy! Thanks for the compliment Heartbeat, it feels good to receive it!

    (hmmm, will this comment get stuck in moderation too!?)

  165.  #165Goodheart on April 12, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    Siena, nice to see you! You’re adorable! I set my pic on, but I’m not sure how to get it to show on here…?

  166.  #166Goodheart on April 12, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    Ok, trying again.

  167.  #167Goodheart on April 12, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    I’m in moderation (which is good because my doctor said I can have anything I want in Moderation!) πŸ™‚

  168.  #168Daria on April 12, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    Siena – wow you are so BEAUTIFUL! and i love your whiny voice!!

    omgosh i feel so much more personally close to you now that I SEE YOU!!

    I LOVE YOU!!!!


    wow this feels surprising and strange!!!

  169.  #169Siena on April 12, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    aw shucks Daria and Goodheart! I really feel overwhelmed! Thank you for the love!

    I don’t know why I’ve been hiding all of this time. There’s no reason to, is there?

    Goodheart, are you using the same email address to subscribe here as you did to sign up for the avatar? If so, then clear your cache and it should work.

    Gosh Sirens, I really feel so happy! Like we’re all sisters on Siren Island.


  170.  #170Siena on April 12, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    Hi Hypnotic, welcome to Siren Island!

    Sounds like you have your man wrapped around your finger. That feels awesome! You might want to consider continuing to CD until he actually puts a marriage on the table for reals. Just for your own well-being and for the health of your relationship. Have you seen Rori’s Relationship Timeline that she has in her Commitment Blueprint program? That was a GI-NORMOUS eye opener for me!

    I had been CDing for a few months when I first met my man too. (This was before I came to Siren Island). But once he asked me to be exclusive, I agreed and stopped dating others. Unfortunately, once I did that I slowly started to implode because of my own self esteem issues. I freaked out and started to overfunction. I totally short circuited the attraction.

    If I had known then what I know now, I wouldn’t have stopped CDing. I did it because he asked me to and I wanted to be his gf, but I know now that it wasn’t good for the health of the relationship. (Gee, how do you know that Siena? Well, because we broke up! LOL)

    I would have given him the no girlfriend speech. It really is the best thing to do, as sucky as it might feel.


  171.  #171Hypnotic on April 12, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    Hi Siena,
    I feel so welcome,Thankyou.
    I so Know it!!!!when I think,but when I feel then I don’t know it…..go figure.
    I have told him I need to feel safer,and more connected before I answer.I asked him if he wanted to help me with that….He said yes.
    I am not aware of the timeline….
    OK…..OK…..I am practicing the no GF speech.

  172.  #172Siena on April 12, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    Hypnotic, you said “I know it when I think but when I feel then I don’t know it.”

    I feel very interested in that! Sounds like what Rori says about using your “boy energy” (the thinking part) to get you out there and to take care of your “girl energy” (the feeling part).

    So, yes, deciding to CD when you’ve already met someone you feel “forever” with might actually be a boy energy thing.

    I’m sure Siren Daria can clarify what I mean there… do I have it right Daria?

  173.  #173Lucy on April 12, 2010 at 6:37 pm

    Home from date #2 with the Mailman. How did I feel?

    Frustrated, annoyed, grrrrr, baring teeth, rolling eyes, drained.

    I have a headache.

    Do I HAVE to go out with him again?

  174.  #174Lucy on April 12, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    But I am now eating the leftover chocolate cake that I brought home from the restaurant and it is SCRUMPTIOUS. πŸ™‚

  175.  #175Daria on April 12, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    Lucy sounded like it felt not fun!

    geez did u tell him this feels that way:

    i feel frustrated annoyed and drained?

  176.  #176Hypnotic on April 12, 2010 at 6:53 pm

    You so Rock!!!
    I feel clearer..I feel excited…..
    I do not want to be the boy when I am with Rockstar.
    I will still practice my speech…and see if I feel like using it all when I feel all girlie and soft and Goddessy….
    WOW….I feel like having some ice cream.

  177.  #177Siena on April 12, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    Blech, I just spent the last 30 minutes responding to online dating people, telling the truth in feeling messages. I also feel drained, have a headache and feel my shoulders up around my ears. But I don’t have any chocolate cake πŸ™

    I have to say, it feels liberating to be able to tell the truth always instead of running away! And since I use feeling messages, it’s never an attack.

    Genius, Rori. Genius!

  178.  #178Siena on April 12, 2010 at 6:59 pm

    Hypnotic, yay! I feel excited for you! But I also want to clarify that I meant that – although it IS boy energy that gets you out there CDing – it is still important to do it. If you already understood that, then I just misread your post (a headache will do that!)

    Am a-going chocolate cake (or, I’m a healthnut, so it’ll be more like trail mix in yogurt) hunting!!!

  179.  #179Daria on April 12, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    I don’t respond to the online people that don’t spark at least a tiny curiosity in me about something about them.

    i feel woooooosh spinny headed and upper bodied

  180.  #180Lucy on April 12, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    Yes, Daria, I did tell him how I felt as I was feeling each feeling, and he would say something like, “Geeze, I was just joking around, oh my gosh.”

    Eventually I told him that I can’t tell the difference between when he is serious and when he is joking, cuz it sounds the same to me.

    I suspect (could be wrong) that he just PRETENDED he had been joking whenever he got a response from me that didn’t feel good to him.

    So, Mischievous Goddess, do I have to go out with him again?

  181.  #181Lucy on April 12, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    I never order dessert, but I so wanted chocolate cake at that point, and when it arrived and I took a bite I realized why I had ordered it, and I felt surprised and looked surprised and said to him, “I just realized I wanted chocolate cake because I am feeling stressed and tense.”

  182.  #182Siena on April 12, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    Lucy, don’t get me wrong, I’m totally pro-chocolate cake, and am feeling (slightly) jealous that you have it.

    Daria, I will get to the “ignore” stage again. Hopefully someday soon. But I’m in feelings bootcamp, which means that I’ve told myself that I will respond (even if it’s a NO) to everyone who contacts me. It FEELS exhausting though. But sooo good for me!

  183.  #183Lucy on April 12, 2010 at 7:32 pm

    Siena, I didn’t write that about ordering the cake b/c of what you said, I wrote it to further describe how “not good” I was feeling on the date. πŸ™‚

  184.  #184Hypnotic on April 12, 2010 at 7:38 pm

    I am excited that you are feeling liberated.
    I feel grateful that you would reach out to me when you are feeling so headachey….
    I was clear…Since you made me realize that my boy energy is looking after my girl energy, I just need to be careful…My boy energy has a tendency to take over and He might just leak and help me right out of the relationship I really want.
    I feel a little nervous
    I feel like my boy energy might have to find something else to do soon….

  185.  #185Daria on April 12, 2010 at 7:41 pm

    Lucy – NO.

    you don’t have to go out with him if you dont feel good about yourself around him.

    or good i think. Drained doesnt feel good. blah. i wouldn’t want to feel drained.

    geez what have i been putting you through !! lol

    did you tell him you feel suspicious when you heard his answer?

    more mischievousness

    ps Rori said Lucy yeah! and Lucy you rock! on this?that thread so it sounds to me like she was supporting your SAY NO desires

    or thats just a guess. she could have just said that because you Rock and she wanted to validate that

  186.  #186Daria on April 12, 2010 at 7:43 pm

    lol im so not consistent here

    im trying to “make” Lucy spend energy with men

    and im trying to “make” Sienna not do that!


    i feel dizzy!

    how about i “make” myself get in my feelings a little

  187.  #187Ingrid on April 12, 2010 at 7:45 pm

    Hi Ladies:
    IMO, I do not think love is “just a bunch of dating moments strung together” at all. Not in the least. I think love is something that happens, when you meet that special one, your soul mate, THE one, that one. It has nothing whatsoever to do with how long or how much you’ve been dating. It just happens. My parents’ best friends’ married over 60 years now, knew each other 3 weeks before they were married, and my folks maybe one month. My parents have been married now for 60 years, and they just celebrated their 60th. Amazing!I think and feel love can happen anytime, any where, any age, etc. It’s a mystery and always will be.

  188.  #188Daria on April 12, 2010 at 7:47 pm

    To me, a bunch of dating moments strung together means

    each moment. right now. we notice we are in a moment… and we can do a tool. we can sink in our feelings. feel our man’s energy coming towards us. we share something. we receive his energy his warmth.

    then there will be another moment

    and another moment

    each moment is a string of moments and builds our love

    when it tears

    there is another moment

    right after

    alwaysa moment to share Deeply our true feeling self

  189.  #189Ingrid on April 12, 2010 at 7:47 pm

    Daria: Have you ever thought you may have feelings for women as well as men? Just a curious thought, as I am just wondering here.

  190.  #190Lucy on April 12, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    Lol, Daria. Whew! I don’t have to go out with him again! Thank you, Daria!!!!!!!! Lol.

    I have asked myself, “Why do I care what Daria thinks about my dating?”

    I have not yet received the answer. πŸ™‚

    No, I didn’t tell him my suspicions because he seemed to overreact so much to my honesty, and I did not want to provoke him further (not for HIS sake, but for mine!!!)

  191.  #191Hypnotic on April 12, 2010 at 7:52 pm

    Awesome!!!! Awesome!!!! Siren Daria……
    I love love love it
    I feel happy
    I feel tickles and sprinkles inside
    So well said…..
    A string of moments building love!!!

  192.  #192Siena on April 12, 2010 at 7:54 pm

    woahhh, Ingrid – did you really just ask Daria that?!?

  193.  #193Daria on April 12, 2010 at 7:55 pm


    i’ve thought about it,

    but on this i am pretty strict with myself sexually- maybe inhibited?

    i thought about it yesterday too in passing, feels surprising to be asked that…

    I like men a lot

    so not so interested in being with women romantically

    umm no definitely not romantically

    maybe a little bit sexually but just as fantasy not as reality

    like i like women on women porn lol

    i dont feel comfortable having sex with women though

    and i don’t think i would want to be in romantic relationship with a woman

    i can be very “tough” so sometimes women will be attracted to me

    ok all the time

    sometimes this feels quite flattering

    sometimes it feels totally uncomfortable if i feel vulnerable

    i feel attracted to really dominant men, not to feminine men

    i like non – sexual close relationships with women the best

    i feel uncomfortable getting hit on sexually by my girlfriends

    sometimes if they’re doing it too much i feel embarassed and i feel like im gonna kick their ass

  194.  #194Siena on April 12, 2010 at 7:56 pm

    (Siena feels stunned at Ingrid’s last question to Daria. Has a million thoughts running through her mind, but is choosing to wait and choose her words so that she can express herself in feeling messages)

  195.  #195Ingrid on April 12, 2010 at 7:56 pm

    Ladies: Tell me which of you wants to be married and have a family, cuz I want to pray for you all. I think God knows your hearts and can and will bring you the desires of your hearts. Tell me cuz, I want to put you in my prayer journal, if you want to be of course.

    LOVE can happen for YOU, reading this.

    I want you all to know, GOD can make all things happen. He did for me. He can for YOU too.

    Pray to the God of your understanding, to know you, to know the desire of your heart, to give you the love of your life. He will. I know. I believe He will with all my heart. Let me know, as I will pray for each and every 0ne of of you who wants me to. Just let me know.



  196.  #196Lucy on April 12, 2010 at 7:56 pm

    Lol. I think it’s hilarious that she asked Daria that!

    Ingrid, you are showing so many different sides of yourself tonight — it is really quite amazing!

  197.  #197Siena on April 12, 2010 at 7:58 pm

    wow, Daria – you handled that like a pro! Just flowed with it, not problema! You are truly a Goddess! I feel awed!

  198.  #198Ingrid on April 12, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    I think and feel it;s totally cool whatever, cuz I lived with a woman, as a lover for 5 years prior to meeting my husband, and I am totally Ok with that. OK. Honesty here, I am not ashamed. I loved her, I loved my feelings, I love my husband now. I love my life journey.

  199.  #199Daria on April 12, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    I used to feel really scared I was a secret lesbian or something because I loved having guy friends and i was so “tough”

    and i felt afraid and ashamed

    and then guywhohadababy’s little sister declared she was a lesbian and pretty much all my shame and non acceptance of myself fell away at that point – like snake skin

    what a relief!

    also my godsister saying

    I am a “not gonna go there on blog slang for” MAN

    and i was like huh

    umm so its ok lol! i wouldnt even have said that

    and shes a very much Goddess, and tough and has men totally giving to her…

    and shes straight. hehe.

    but i know a lot of women that start relationships with women who are not necessarily lesbians, they are bisexual and they feel despairing with men, have had abusive relationships,

    so they “go gay” for awhile

    sometimes they wind up pregnant lol. how did that happen?

    its all good lol

  200.  #200Daria on April 12, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    Wwo Ingrid! I feel so surprised and honored that you’re sharing this with us!

  201.  #201Siena on April 12, 2010 at 8:01 pm

    woahhhh – now I feel even MORE stunned! Is this the same Ingrid? For reals!?

    Shame on me for pre-judging!

  202.  #202Ingrid on April 12, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    Yes, I am a mystery. That’s OK too.

    I know what it’s like to be in bed with a woman lover one day and the next day be fleeing in bed with a man lover. I am a woman with many sides. But I am what I am today too.

  203.  #203Daria on April 12, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    Ingrid I truly feel awed that is very cool. It feels so good to read your feelings

  204.  #204Lucy on April 12, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    Ingrid, I feel curious about how your relationship with your woman lover ended.

  205.  #205Ingrid on April 12, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    Sorry to shock many of you, but yes I had my naughty moments, which now I am not proud of.

    I once lived this way. I was in bed with my woman lover of 5 years, on a Friday nite, then on a Saturday nite in bed with my man lover. I laugh when I think back on it. I am ashamed for it. I was soooo unbelievable then, when I was about 28-30 years old. GASP!

  206.  #206Daria on April 12, 2010 at 8:10 pm

    I feel curious about teh dynamics of the relationship.

  207.  #207Ingrid on April 12, 2010 at 8:10 pm

    Gosh. I guess I never felt secure enough to share it anywhere. And I haven’t. It’s been my secret ocean so to speak.

  208.  #208Lucy on April 12, 2010 at 8:10 pm

    Me too.

  209.  #209Lucy on April 12, 2010 at 8:11 pm

    And, I feel SO confused.

  210.  #210Siena on April 12, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    I feel shocked not that you had a woman lover, Ingrid. I feel shocked because I totally had you pegged as someone who was married at age 15 to the 1 man you ever loved… totally totally conservative. Again, shame on me for pre-judging!

  211.  #211Ingrid on April 12, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    N ot even my husband knows this. He does a little but not all.

  212.  #212Daria on April 12, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    I feel afraid to think about having women lovers. That’s where my “religious sexual cultural” stuff kicks in.


    I feel heavy Goddess. I feel babystep Goddess.

    I feel glad i love men or else

    feeling this way – inhibited – would suck way more

  213.  #213Ingrid on April 12, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    I feel afraid to share.

  214.  #214Daria on April 12, 2010 at 8:15 pm

    Wow God is wise huh! he’s got surprises for all of us to grow!

  215.  #215Daria on April 12, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    Aww Ingrid hugs!

    I don’t want to pressure you to share…I feel fascinated… and I feel open to hearing if you choose to

  216.  #216Siena on April 12, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    I still feel stunned. So stunned that my headache went away.

    Ingrid, I don’t want to sound voyeuristic, but this is a safe place to share if you feel you want to. It’s totally up to you.

  217.  #217Daria on April 12, 2010 at 8:18 pm

    Lol we’re hanging on the edge of our seats!

    I told yall this day was going down in Siren Island History!!

  218.  #218Siena on April 12, 2010 at 8:21 pm

    Keep hitting refresh, refresh, refresh on my browser.

  219.  #219Lucy on April 12, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    Ingrid, I appreciate your feeling statement: “I feel afraid to share.”

  220.  #220Lucy on April 12, 2010 at 8:25 pm

    I sense that you on the verge of a breakthrough, Ingrid.

  221.  #221Lucy on April 12, 2010 at 8:26 pm

    I like your pic, Siena. It looks like it was taken in my kitchen. πŸ™‚

  222.  #222Lucy on April 12, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    Ingrid, are you still here?

  223.  #223Siena on April 12, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    Thanks Lucy! It was taken with my man sitting right next to me, which is why I have the BIG smile on my face. I feel happy looking at that pic, so I use it for my facebook and everything.

  224.  #224Ingrid on April 12, 2010 at 8:31 pm

    Thanks. OK. I’ve had ummmm 3 women lovers before I met my hubby and a couple men, the one who I mentioned was a wise and up-standing lawyer but who was an alcoholic. He was crucial for the path I took. One woman who was my soul mate and lover for about 5 years, and we lived together. She was I guess you could say one of the loves of my life so to say, if she was a man, I would have married her. It ended cuz she didn’t give me enough attention, her high profile job mattered more than me, or so I thought. I met a man in the law firm where we worked, and he wooed me and pursued me non stop. He gave me roses on my desk every morning after our night together, where SHE was always too tired. She left me feeling ignored. I was young and blind to love, yet I was in love with both of them at one time, as I said. There was a time in my life where I slept and made love with one, and the next day was in the arms of the other. It was a most confusing time in my life, but I look back now, and I have no regrets. None. Still, this is my story.

    My lady friend and I were in contact, until recently, and my man friend and I were too, until I became afraid of him, as he was soooo ultra possessive. I became afraid for my life. So….I had my times of love, I am embarrassed to admit.
    Thx for listening.

  225.  #225Lucy on April 12, 2010 at 8:33 pm

    Ingrid, I feel so happy that you felt safe enough to share this with us. <3

  226.  #226Ingrid on April 12, 2010 at 8:33 pm

    Thx for listening everyone. I am feeling most ashamed for my past, but I know our God is a forgiving God too.

  227.  #227Ingrid on April 12, 2010 at 8:36 pm



  228.  #228Siena on April 12, 2010 at 8:37 pm

    Ingrid, thank you for sharing! Your story is YOURS, and is a part of you. It is what makes you unique, special and totally lovable. Love is love is love, it doesn’t matter who it’s with. Do you think you could learn to embrace that part of your life instead of feeling embarrassed about it?

    I gotta say, I like you a whole lot more now that you’ve shared your story. Before, your posts felt judgmental and hard to read. Now that you’ve shared WHO you are, I feel a sense of respect and fondness for you.

    I’m so glad that you shared – welcome to Siren Island!

  229.  #229Ingrid on April 12, 2010 at 8:40 pm

    Thx Sienna! That means a lot!

  230.  #230Siena on April 12, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    …and Ingrid, I hear guilt in your post #226. As I was raised Catholic, I completely understand guilt. But I also know that God loves you more than you could even begin to understand. All of your life is bathed in God’s light. I mean – ALL of it!

  231.  #231Daria on April 12, 2010 at 8:54 pm

    Ingrid –

    I feel sad you feel ashamed. I feel happy that by sharing here you are taking babysteps to Loving your shame feeling and it will melt and you will feel honoring of all of you and the feeling of shame will melt like ice in a pot of warm water

  232.  #232Daria on April 12, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    I feel so happy!

    Ingrid do you realize there are women reading this who have not spoken out on it, and they are feeling so much more empowered and safe now!

    this has not really come up, except in passing!

  233.  #233Daria on April 12, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    yay sharing!

  234.  #234Ingrid on April 12, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    Hi Siena:

    I want to live my faith and I do. I feel if not for our faith, what does our life even mean? I am thankful that I am a faithful Catholic and always will be. This the way I choose to live my life now. I hope you do as well. I love going to Mass, taking the Eucharist, praising His name, glorifying Him, Praying the Rosary. I love the fact I found out about faith later in my life and I am glad I did. MY faith is my life.


    God’s Blessings

  235.  #235Siena on April 12, 2010 at 9:04 pm

    Ingrid, I also love all those things that you listed, especially the Eucharist. However, I feel exacerbated by some of the rules of the church – the Sunday obligation, for instance. Still, I respect the church’s rules, and in respecting the rules I choose to keep myself outside of the church rather than confess something that I don’t believe (specifically, that the Sunday obligation is of mortal importance).

    But I believe that God is so much bigger than any one religion. So my heritage is Catholic, but my spirituality is much much larger.

  236.  #236Lucy on April 12, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    I guess I’m gonna go to bed now, but I just want to share that I suddenly feel very sad about not hearing from TN man for awhile. πŸ™

  237.  #237Siena on April 12, 2010 at 9:07 pm

    Good night Lucy. I’m sorry to hear about TN man. You never know what tomorrow holds, it’s not written in stone yet!!

  238.  #238Lucy on April 12, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    Thanks, Siena, I feel a lil encouraged. Good night.

    Good night, Daria.

    Good night, Ingrid.

    Good night, John-Boy.


  239.  #239Ingrid on April 12, 2010 at 9:11 pm

    Yes, I also feel our faith is not about religion, but more about our God.

    Thank you Godesses for making me feel OK and for listening to my saga. As I listen too to the story of your life. I am all ears, and willing to listen too/.


  240.  #240Ingrid on April 12, 2010 at 9:16 pm

    I still feel a bit afraid as to what some of you might say to me, as I told and shared with you some very deep stuff. I am glad though I got it off my chest. It feels great.

  241.  #241Ingrid on April 12, 2010 at 9:21 pm


    I am so glad if I can help someone else!

    God Bless You!

  242.  #242Siena on April 12, 2010 at 9:27 pm

    Tell me the truth Ingrid, me putting up my gravatar today is what convinced you to be brave, right? LOL totally joking!

    I’m really glad you feel relieved. Lots of us share deep scary stuff here! When I shared my scary stuff, I was so embraced that I realized that it wasn’t so scary afterall. That’s what Siren Island is all about… it’s a safe place to learn how to be fully who we are as individuals.

  243.  #243Ingrid on April 12, 2010 at 9:36 pm

    Hi Siena:

    I don;t even know what a “gravatar” even is. LOL. What is it?

    Thank you though for even writing. I am so grateful for any women who even write to me, and share their hearts with me. Thank you.

    Gd Nite!

    P.S. My 3 doggies are here with their little heads just wondering what I am doing on my laptop, as if to say, “what r u doing mom”? I am so tenderly drawn to them. They are faithful little creatures, unlike men, I might add. Oh how I love my animals. \Now, I am watching the movie Valentino, The Last Emperor. It;s very good. And nice to watch a movie when kids are in bed. Gd nite all Sirens. Sweet Dreams.

  244.  #244Apple Jacks on April 12, 2010 at 9:44 pm

    Just coming on…WOW. I feel like giving Ingrid a hug.

  245.  #245Siena on April 12, 2010 at 9:45 pm

    Ingrid – the gravatar is the thing that allows all you beautiful sirens to see my beautiful face on all of my posts – dozens of times on the webpage! God bless modern technology!

  246.  #246dawn on April 12, 2010 at 9:47 pm

    Apple Jacks , Me too !

  247.  #247Apple Jacks on April 12, 2010 at 9:49 pm

    Hehe *Cyber group hug* πŸ™‚

  248.  #248Simply Shannon on April 12, 2010 at 10:46 pm

    Ok wow. Ya’ll have been all over the place today. Seriously.

    Ingrid: Are you real? A part of me feels disbelieving. At the same time, it doesn’t matter to me that much cuz I don’t want to get caught up in your story (admittedly fascinating though). Could it be your residual guilt from these past relationships is resurfacing in “slut” and “whore” judgments of other women? Each day I keep being reminded that my judgments of others are really judgments of myself.

    I don’t really want to think about the comments I posted earlier (was it on this post or another one). Gosh. I feel so tired. Just finished inputting most of my taxes. Stress-o-rama. It feels good to be mostly done. I need a drink now. Or to go to sleep. it’s almost 2am here.

    Okay, so goodnight for now. Just wanted to say hi and good night.

    My crazy farewell imagery for ya…

    It’s a girls’ weekend at the beach. We’re all out skinny dipping on a moonlight night, having this conversation. All of it, from beginning to end. We had a huge disagreement, but I feel the peacefulness of it now. I can almost hear the ocean and feel the gentle waves.

    Can you hear the laughter over the waves? I can.

  249.  #249mary on April 12, 2010 at 10:58 pm

    Hello Ingrid!

    I would very much like for you to put my name in your prayer journal. It would be so wonderful if he was a man who would understand and blend in with my family.

    Thank you so much for offering!



  250.  #250dawn on April 12, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    Simply Shannon, Hugs to you !

  251.  #251mary on April 12, 2010 at 11:06 pm

    Let’s go on a retreat!

  252.  #252heartbeat on April 12, 2010 at 11:46 pm

    hang on hang on one last little siren wanting to join in the feel-good cyber-hug vibe!

    just out of bed – yawn – morning time here πŸ™‚

  253.  #253heartbeat on April 12, 2010 at 11:48 pm

    Wow – 131 comments in my inbox – I feel uplifted at the whole process!! Wow this feels amazing! I’m LUVVIN you all!! xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

  254.  #254heartbeat on April 12, 2010 at 11:51 pm

    Goodheart – your piccy’s coming up as a black square lol! Aw I’m so looking forward to seeing you…

  255.  #255heartbeat on April 12, 2010 at 11:56 pm

    Ingrid I feel warm reading more about you, I feel admiration. I still feel untrusting though. I feel uncertain you are real. I feel my arms moving to hold you and I also feel my legs wanting to run. My stomach feels tight, butterflies… caution and eagerness in one

  256.  #256heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 12:13 am

    Ingrid – If you are for real then I want to say you are not alone. I had a 5yr relationship with a woman – it was an emotional healing, I felt safe and nurtured. I realised I was really learning to love my femininity that previously I hated. I feel worried that sounds like I was using her, but I felt love at the time. Sexually, I felt myself awakening, I’d had men before but my sexy feelings were separate from my emotions. Now they were together. Also we explored the sacred feminine together, visiting wells and holy places, reading books. She was about to study to be ordained as an Anglican priest when we met, but she chose not to when she read my thesis on female spirituality, we went on a real journey together.

    The sexual relationship ended when we got to a place where we both felt resolved in our sexuality – for most of the 5yrs we were like sisters rather than lovers, she met a man and then realised she would never be into men in that way, I met a man and realised my journey continued with men. I’ve never been sexually attracted to women since. I can admire and love but not in a sexual way.

    As a child, I heard my father and his friend (who abused me) belittle women. And my mother cut my hair short and dressed me in shorts – people would ask ‘boy or girl?’. I felt humiliated.

    So that relationship was truly healing – in my heart, my body and soul.

  257.  #257heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 12:24 am

    Our first holiday was in Glastonbury – it blew me away walking round the goddess-in-the-landscape. The hills and the Tor make an image of a reclining woman, it is a pilgrimage. Walking every part of the body opened up all sorts of feelings – my disgust and discomfort as well as hidden good memories of being a girl, not dressed as a boy. Happy memories. I felt strong and feminine after.

    I feel a little defensive all of a sudden, a little nervous and exposed.

    I feel Spirit has masculine and feminine aspects. I am open to receiving God as masculine energy and living in Goddess energy. I don’t feel God when I’m in my head, judging or following rules. Surrender, and faith and gratitude feel joyous to me, like a prayer.

  258.  #258heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 12:25 am

    And that is all, sleeping goddesses – off to work now, miss you all. Laters xxxxxxxx

  259.  #259Daria on April 13, 2010 at 2:48 am

    I am dating a man that doesn’t have any money right now as it seems. i feel worried.

    how do i tell him – get a job NOW

    without leaning forward?

    i feel uncomfortable to date a man that doesn’t have money to see me regularly?

    its kinda like time

    i feel uncomfortable dating a man who doesn’t have time to see me regularly?


    but thats just a voice somebody put in my head

    from people telling ME to get a job

    from me trying to figure out whats best for my godbrothers and extend it to him


    I THINK IT May heLP him and me if i just tell him to get a job

    i would feel better if you got a job

    i dont want him to get a job if it makes him feel like he doesnt have integrity by doing that

    after all i dont have ajob

    i have blocks and triggers all around this

    ‘he cant get a job. he thinks hes stupid. the job hed get isnt gonna make a lot of money. he could have his own business but doing what. he can sign up for the union to be an electrician or other but that takes time effort AND money that he doesnt have. its hopeless. Daria implosion fold at the middle. ”

    This story repeated for so many men i date

    society makes it this way for them

    for us

    to not be able to have abundance for being ourselves

    starve us out of integrity

    stress us out of freedom and compassion

    robberies and drugs

    closer to God than McDonalds


    dont know

    who knows

    it FEELS



    please heal

    i dont like it

    but i love it






    hello i would like to sacrifice my identity to save the world

    step right up

    i meant change the world

    save myself


    save everyone

    i want happy fulfilled men with integrity

    i want you ALL happy and fulfilled

    i am responsible for ur happiness

    i created this world not like pac

    tap tap tap the way to freedom

    grow my energy field bigger than earth

    my baby earth

    the womb of my Goddess

    can i birth u and rebirth u


    i am blue and white and green

    i am black inside like cosmos

    return to the blackness

    out of here

    we throb



    birth stars like bang
    bang bang bang

    big bang and little bang

    out of the blackness and into the blackness

    form and deform unform and reform


    mother black

    feel the safety

    of the black universe

    we are the energy

    just energies

    flow in blackness

    the stars glint

    on our flesh

  260.  #260Emily on April 13, 2010 at 3:23 am

    Ingrid, you can pray for me. Thank you.

  261.  #261Hypnotic on April 13, 2010 at 7:17 am

    I feel envious of how your feelings just flow….
    I feel challenged when there are many feelings swirling through me.
    I know now through CD that I do not want to date a man without a job….I used to feel judgemental for saying such a thing..and ashamed…but it makes me feel worried,nervous,anxious,afraid….all kinds of bad feelings….So one day I had an ah ha moment…I am not judgemental.
    I have a right to judge what is right for me,and that is what I am doing..I am not judging the person in particular as good or bad…
    I am working through a speech for that..

    I feel exhausted and tense.
    I want to float.
    I want to express better
    I told one man that It was uncomfortable for me to think about taking on his troubled finances at this point in my life..It would feel like walking on eggshells..I am tired and I feel like I am done struggling!!!
    it felt liberating…
    I am always searching for words to use.
    I do have a new line for the job interview type of date though…..I just say….That question makes me feel uneasy…….words…..
    I want more words……

  262.  #262Simply Shannon on April 13, 2010 at 7:45 am

    Oh my goodness Hypnotic…

    I have a right to judge what is right for me,and that is what I am doing..I am not judging the person in particular as good or bad…

    That feels sooooo good to read! Sweet relief! Yes! I’m not judging the other person. I’m judging what is right for me.

    In case ya’ll can’t see it, there’s a lightbulb above my head. Wowsers!

  263.  #263Hypnotic on April 13, 2010 at 7:49 am

    I have been inspired by what happened through the night while I was asleep and am feeling happy to be a part of Siren Island.
    I want to share a trigger!!!

    I am on a date…..Something he says leads me to respond with a feeling message….4 times now this is what I hear:
    Well,my glass is half full.
    I want to scream!!!Teeth clenched….uurrgggg
    My Drama Queen wants to come out.

    She wants to say:
    First of all Mister…..the vessle of which you speak is imaginary…..second…what the heck is it full of????
    You have no idea what the universe will do……If it gives you more of whatever was in your glass then it was half full…..BUT….if you lose some of what was in your glass then it was half empty……cause now its really empty………Get it!!!!
    Happy people…..Happy planet!!!!!…get over yourself…. sometimes in life you just have to feel what you feel and go with it….You can’t always just smile and stuff crap down!!!!

  264.  #264Hypnotic on April 13, 2010 at 7:52 am

    Awe thanks Shannon…I have struggled with that one for most of my life…….I am excited that it helps!!!

  265.  #265dawn on April 13, 2010 at 8:17 am

    Hypnotic, I ll second that trigger, By the way , love the name. Feels dreamy, peaceful. Although i feel that a step up from ” my glass is half empty. ” What a turn off. I feel tense. Hey buddy your breathin arent ya ? you got up this mornin to new day. I do not want you to even try to bring me down. I feel tense neck. I Feel bad for sad sorry man. I feel good to be happy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

  266.  #266Hypnotic on April 13, 2010 at 8:35 am

    Thank you,I am happy when I feel dreamy and peaceful… feels good to read.
    I am laughing hysterically right now….Dawn very funny!!!!!

    Yes,yes……the imaginary glass gets me every time!!!

  267.  #267Simply Shannon on April 13, 2010 at 8:40 am

    I feel confused by that statement. My glass is half full. Meaning he’s an optimist?

    And Dawn, I’m sooo with you on the sad sorry man. Mr. Fabulous Kisser is pulling this right now. I guess over time I’m seeing just how much of a pessimist he really is. I feel annoyed listening to it. He complained in two emails yesterday (with zero content directed at me). I finally wrote back:

    I feel blah reading your messages. I don’t want impersonal emails. Are you talking to me or just out loud? I feel tired too and am looking forward to a nap with the bubbas. Ciao. Shannon

    His response: Sorry, just talking outloud, trying to stay awake. Very, very tired. Not like a normal tired. Gonna get the mail with [dog] then take a nap. Adios, Mr. Fabulous Kisser

    And that was it. And he didn’t call last night. Ick, ick, ick. And no emails this morning which is different too. I wonder how long this non-contact will last. Surprisingly I don’t feel fear or upset. I feel a little bit of relief. *blush* Is that my fear of intimacy calling?

    Haha – and now Mr. Masculine Man just texted me. LOL!

  268.  #268dawn on April 13, 2010 at 8:42 am

    I dont feel like im going against the grain . I feel smooth and flowy. I feel it moving forward. Ifeel ok with my difference. I feel angry I wasted soooo much time. I feel impatient. I need baby steps. walking ,breathing slowly. To take it all in. I do not want to be alone. I do not want to be dissrespected. I feel respectful. I feel love. I want to show it . I love this !!

  269.  #269Simply Shannon on April 13, 2010 at 8:51 am

    Oh my. Now I feel afraid. Mr. Masculine Man just asked me if I was free Friday night. And I said Yessir I am.

    I’ve been knowing for awhile now that I needed to get back out and circular date. I don’t know what this means with Mr. Fabulous Kisser. And for this to happen right when Mr. Fab Kisser isn’t talking to me… eckkk… I feel scared. Heart pounding, sweaty palms scared.

    Ok, yep, just signed myself up for dinner with him.

    Seriously my stomach feels hot. FEAR!!!!!!!!!!!

  270.  #270Hypnotic on April 13, 2010 at 8:53 am

    You are confused…..well I am too that is why it is a trigger for me…….I think that they say it when they are confused as well.They don’t know what to say next… they bring up the imaginary Glass.
    By the way…….I am going to take…”I feel Blah” and add it to my vocabulary!!!….love it!!!
    Don’t want to feel blah…….Next

  271.  #271dawn on April 13, 2010 at 8:53 am

    Simply Shannon, Looking back at my sad sorry man. He seemed more attractive to me when I felt sad and sorry. I feel relieved that i dont find that attractive anymore. Perhaps the relief you feel is good. Just a feeling HA HA !

  272.  #272Hypnotic on April 13, 2010 at 8:57 am

    Hot fear and sweaty palms….WoooHooooo
    I feel excited for you!!!
    Way better than………Blah!!!
    Happy date…..That is my wish for you right now

  273.  #273Goodheart on April 13, 2010 at 9:22 am

    I am a Gravatar flunky πŸ™ Ugh, I hope that isn’t my aura showing up! Lol. Should I change my name to Blackheart?

    I will try yet again (my mantra for life lately)…

    I’m glad everyone is getting along now – just catching up with the posts.

  274.  #274dawn on April 13, 2010 at 9:24 am

    Simply Shannon, I wish I could hug the fear. I feel i would like to thank if for protecting me. I feel the respect for my fear now more than ever. It kept me safe but it was false. ” If you stay where I want you , you cant hurt me. ” My mother and husband both beat me. . I felt raw as a child. I felt exposed. I felt like a flower that wanted to bloom but held back out of fear. I smile at my fear today. I revel in its glory because its mine. I feel good to put it in its place. I feel safe to replace it with love . I feel fearless 1 I feel powerful!

  275.  #275dawn on April 13, 2010 at 9:40 am

    I feel safe here because I want to . No one is telling me to , no one is making me. Its coming from me. I feel like 45yrs of pent up power in my veins. I feel explosive . I feel thankful and welcome.

  276.  #276dawn on April 13, 2010 at 9:46 am

    Ingrid, How are you ? We are all here If you need us. We love you ! We need you too !!!!!!!!!!!!!

  277.  #277dawn on April 13, 2010 at 9:49 am

    Simply Shannon , Thank you! Many hugs from me to you!

  278.  #278Rori Raye on April 13, 2010 at 9:49 am

    Go dawn!

  279.  #279Lucy on April 13, 2010 at 9:50 am

    Shannon, I feel excited about your date Friday and this whole turn of events with Mr. Fab Kisser (for some strange reason lol!)

    Is Mr. Fab Kisser still a fab kisser or is that changing?

    And, Ingrid, how are you today?

  280.  #280Siena on April 13, 2010 at 9:54 am

    Good morning Sirens!

    Goodheart, first of all – HOLY COW LOL about your black box gravatar!! Seriously, I feel so amused by it, I can’t even describe. I’m laughing so hard my stomach hurts! It’s like Charlie Brown and his Halloween Costume.

    Heartbeat, I feel enchanted by your story. I feel awed by you! I feel like your spirit is a story weaved in rich tapestry, and the sacred feminine is all through it! You remind me of Morgan le Fey from that novel (what is it? the one about King Arthur from the woman’s viewpoint?)

    I feel afraid of becoming too engrossed in the sacred feminine. He already is scared to give up his freedom. Won’t he become more afraid if I surrender myself to the deep well of the feminine? hmmm…

    Simply Shannon, I read your post last night before I went to bed about the ocean and laughter. And yes! I heard it! It was the perfect analogy!

    I can’t spend much time on Siren Island today. I hung out here all day yesterday. Work calleth!

    Hugs Sirens,


  281.  #281Rori Raye on April 13, 2010 at 9:55 am

    Heartbeat – Thank you so much and blessings to you for sharing this with us – so beautiful. Have you ever seen the film “Personal Best” with Mariel Hemingway? One of my all-time favorite films about sisterhood, love and sex and finding out who you are, what you want…and how all that can morph and change and be fluid. Love, Rori

  282.  #282Goodheart on April 13, 2010 at 10:03 am

    Siena, seriously that made me bust out laughing about Charlie Brown & his Halloween costume! Instead of Goodheart I’ll be Good Ol’ Chuck πŸ™‚

    I think I finally got it to work.

  283.  #283Siena on April 13, 2010 at 10:04 am

    THERE YOU ARE! Wow, you’re beautiful!! Hi Goodheart!!

  284.  #284Goodheart on April 13, 2010 at 10:11 am

    Hi Siena. Thank you for the compliment. I was worried y’all would prefer the black box πŸ™‚

  285.  #285Rori Raye on April 13, 2010 at 10:18 am

    Wow, Ingrid – Bless you for sharing this with us…when you come to love YOURSELF – by simply accepting that you are already loved completely by God, the Universe, however you like to think of what you don’t know that feels bigger than what you do know – no matter what YOU think about what you do…and then join God in loving you completely no matter what you do – this will all come together for you. I do not believe that God, the Universe, Love judges, because I believe that God, the Universe, Love is too profound for me to even begin to understand what anything at all means. If I don’t know what something means, and I’m only guessing from my small position here on earth – then I can hardly judge. So I can make choices, moving in the direction of what feels good, and decide that, for me, this is the way…happiness is the way. Love, Rori

  286.  #286Rori Raye on April 13, 2010 at 10:21 am

    Aren’t we all amazing!

  287.  #287Rori Raye on April 13, 2010 at 10:28 am

    Ingrid – you rock….totally. I hope soon you will come to see very soon what an amazing woman you are for opening all this vulnerability up for yourself and for us, and what an amazing power you have to live in love. So much for preconceived notions and small ideas. As we are intrigued by you and accept and love you for everything you are, we start looking at the things WE’VE hidden as our “secret oceans” (great image, thank you so much) – and finding ourselves intriguing, fascinating, multi-dimensional, too, and wonder how great it would be if we opened up ALL our own inner passageways to the light – so we can heal ourselves from our own self-judgment. Love, Rori

  288.  #288Daria on April 13, 2010 at 11:13 am

    Goodheart you l ook GREAT!

  289.  #289Goodheart on April 13, 2010 at 11:21 am

    Thank you Daria. I was so scared to post my pic. Exposure?

    I feel freer now.

  290.  #290Lucy on April 13, 2010 at 11:23 am

    I want to see Goodheart! I’m still seeing the Charlie Brown pic!

  291.  #291Goodheart on April 13, 2010 at 11:36 am

    I will never be able to watch the Peanuts cartoons the same way again πŸ™‚

  292.  #292heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Rori – thank you, it feels so lovely to receive blessings πŸ™‚ No, I haven’t seen Personal Best but it’s now on my film list – I feel excited when I get a new suggestion and this feels apt! xxx

    I’m still feeling moved by Shirley Valentine – I watched it the other night – hadn’t seen it for years. I never appreciated the depth of it before, I felt touched to the core. It’s also very funny in parts! I laughed out loud and cried too.

  293.  #293heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 11:51 am

    YAY Goodheart!! Wow you’re a stunner!! Woohoo!!

  294.  #294heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 11:55 am

    Lucy – lol! Glad I’m not alone with my phone in the depths of night πŸ˜‰ xx

  295.  #295Goodheart on April 13, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    Thank you gracious Heartbeat! I would be a “depths of the night” blogger too, but I can’t figure out how to do it through my phone. Is it any wonder after the gravatar fiasco?

    Speaking of movies, an obscure one I saw that I liked is called I’m With Lucy. It’s with Monica Potter & she is circular dating sort of. She has 4 or 5 guys, all with different personalities & it makes me laugh. It’s about her journey & what she learns about herself from each man. It’s really sweet too.

  296.  #296Lucy on April 13, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    Oh yeah, Goodheart, that movie is about me. Jk! πŸ™‚

    It sounds like one I want to see!

    Have you all seen 500 Days of Summer? My daughter says I am like Summer and that it’s not nice. My take on that movie was that the guy was in an Imaginary Relationship with her — not HER fault!

    What do you think?

    I can read the emailed posts on my phone in bed, but I can’t figure out how to respond. So when I read them in bed I have to wait til morning to respond!!

  297.  #297Apple Jacks on April 13, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Well here are a few things I have not seen. I have never seen Shirley Valentine and I have yet to see Goodheart’s picture. Right now it’s just a black square in the corner. πŸ™

  298.  #298heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Hehe Apple Jacks! Clear your cache and reload. I love giving tec advice πŸ™‚

  299.  #299heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Goodheart & Lucy thank you for the film titles – hey I feel rich today! xx

  300.  #300Goodheart on April 13, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Apple Jacks, I swear I exist! (You can only see me if you truly believe :-))

    Lucy, I had a suspicion that movie was about you! I have not seen 500 Days of Summer, but it seems to me if the guy thinks he’s in a relationship & Summer has done nothing to validate it then he is the one with the problem. No?

    I also just love Under the Tuscan Sun with Diane Lane. The older lady in it is great. She can see what Diane’s issues are as clear as day. She says to her, “When I was a little girl, I would spend hours in the grass looking for lady bugs. I would finally get so tired & fall asleep right there. When I woke up there were lady bugs crawling all over me.”

    It’s about letting go. Stop trying so hard & it will come to you. It, in this case, was love.

  301.  #301Apple Jacks on April 13, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    Oh umm….heartbeat? What’s a cache and how do you clear it?

  302.  #302Apple Jacks on April 13, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    “You can only see me if you truly believe” Lol.

    Maybe I can say your name three times and I’ll see you! πŸ™‚

  303.  #303Goodheart on April 13, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    Don’t forget to click your heels Apple Jacks πŸ™‚

  304.  #304dawn on April 13, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    My computer is sooooo old i dont think it has a cache ! LOL

  305.  #305heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    Siena – thank you for your comment to me about the sacred feminine, Morgan le Fey etc – wow I feel surprised haha!!

    It feels like a tingling purple glow inside, the sacred. It’s mine and yeah I hear your fear regarding your man – don’t we all fear our power as women? My *opinion* is we’ve been socialised to feel afraid of our inner light. As Marianne Williamson said – “it is not our darkness we fear, but our light”. Radiance….

    I’ve been there, feeling ashamed of any feminine goddessiness. I feel good now, it’s part of me, for me. No-one would pick me out in the street for it (even though I have red curly hair lol!) – it’s an inside job.

  306.  #306heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    heheheh!!! Apple Jacks, turn the handle on the side thirty four times anticlockwise whilst whistling Alabama. Failing that, click on Safety, then Delete History….

  307.  #307Lucy on April 13, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Oooh, I love the lady bug story!

    I saw a lady bug a couple days ago under the willow tree when I was just lying there not looking for lady bugs.

  308.  #308heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    and there I was, lost in sacred goddessiness πŸ˜‰

    ahem, right, did it work Apple Jacks? lol!

  309.  #309heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Yay Goodheart – another film…. thank you!!!!

  310.  #310Lucy on April 13, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    500 Days of Summer — She’s actually kind of hot and cold with him, trying to explore and see whether he’s the guy for her — very much living in the moment — sleeping with him when she feels like it and not when she doesn’t — busy, happy, free-spirited — siren-like, following her feelings, leaning back not as a tool but as a way of life cuz it’s who she is — and he is totally gaga for her but he is frustrated cuz he wants to pin her down and she’s not ready to be pinned down — you get the feeling she is circular dating although it doesn’t show her dating anyone else and she doesn’t say that she is — you do kind of feel sorry for the guy — my kids empathized with HIM but I could really feel for both sides, both of them — I won’t give away the ending…. πŸ™‚

  311.  #311Goodheart on April 13, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    Gotta go get 500 Days. It sounds like a How-To guide for sirens.

    Can you stand one more movie? The Holiday, with Kate Winslet. It is about how she desperately holding out for the love of one particular man who is toxic for her. She lives in England & switches house with Cameron Diaz in LA (who’s boyfriend just cheated on her). They both want a change of scenery for the Christmas holiday & to get away from what they’re dealing with.

    Heartbeat, would you like to switch houses with any of us Yanks? πŸ™‚

  312.  #312Lucy on April 13, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    Oooh, switching houses sounds GREAT! I want an adventure and a change of scenery!

  313.  #313Siena on April 13, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    OMG I LOVE The Holiday, because I LOVE where Kate Winslet lives in LA! It’s Christmastime and the warm Santa Ana winds are blowing in from the desert… that’s home to me, so I love it! Nothing like those Santa Anas!

  314.  #314heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    My cat just bit me!!!!! Owwww!

    Goodheart would you like to swap for a cute Victorian ground floor garden flat with a BIG HUGE biting cat?????

    Hell yeah – where are you??? πŸ™‚

  315.  #315Lucy on April 13, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    We should all swap houses to find different men for our rotations, and blog about it, and then they’ll turn it into a movie. The Great Siren Island House Swap.

  316.  #316Goodheart on April 13, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    oooh, I love the part with the Santa Anas, Siena. For some reason it makes me feel tingly, peaceful & full of expectation. Are you in the LA area?

    Heartbeart, I am in sunny Phoenix. I will see your huge biting cat & raise you a ginormous whiney dog πŸ™‚

  317.  #317Siena on April 13, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    Goodheart, me too. They’re all about freedom and living in the West and wide open spaces! Yes, I’m just south of LA in OC πŸ˜‰

  318.  #318heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Lucy – hahahha!!!!!! Brilliant!!

    Goodheart – Arizona 1000 points, whiny dog nil πŸ™‚ lol!!!

  319.  #319heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    LA is so much better πŸ˜‰

  320.  #320heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    I feel like a plate-spinner. There are so many threads going on at once!! I said I wouldn’t do that, I meant to get in the bath three hours ago. Haha! I’m having fun and feel a little annoyed with myself too. And stinky.

  321.  #321Goodheart on April 13, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    Siena, I could drive to you in like 6 hours. Disneyland is my absolute escape to place!

    Actually, once Heartbeat comes out to visit my dog, we can both drive to you πŸ™‚

  322.  #322heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Goodheart – not if my cat gets him first πŸ™‚

  323.  #323Goodheart on April 13, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Heartbeat, you can bring Huge Cat. It will be like The Incredible Journey πŸ™‚

  324.  #324heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    hahahhaha!!!!! πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ Oh my….!!

  325.  #325Goodheart on April 13, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Is he really a cat?

    Does he have spots or stripes? Maybe you should look him up on a zoology site.

  326.  #326Lucy on April 13, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Anybody live on the east coast? I’m feeling left out!

  327.  #327Goodheart on April 13, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Or a mane?

  328.  #328heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    aaahhhhhhhhh hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!

    Goodheart you’re killing me!!!! πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚

  329.  #329Goodheart on April 13, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    Oh Lucy. (That made me feel like Ricky Ricardo).

    Oh Lucy, we can swing by to pick you up. Do you have any pets? πŸ™‚

  330.  #330Lucy on April 13, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    Yes! I have a really cute lovable little doggie who never whines and has never bitten anybody!

  331.  #331heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    I also have a very tiny whiny cat called Harry. He moults.

  332.  #332heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    I want to go to NY! Lucy?

  333.  #333Siena on April 13, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Goodheart, you have a deal! I’m about 30 minutes from Disneyland. Actually, was supposed to go yesterday, but decided to work instead… and ended up here on Siren Island instead of that!

    I MUST work, ladies. Clients are going to start calling…

    Laters! xoxoxo

  334.  #334Goodheart on April 13, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    He moults! lol. I’m slapping my knee on that one.

    We may need a trailer.

    And a lint brush.

    I’m a little afeared for you dog Lucy. Heartbeat, thinks she has a cat, but (I’m going to whisper this so she can’t hear, I think it’s something “else.” – ever hear of the chupacabra?)

  335.  #335heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    Laters, Siena!! I must go have my bath now…

    And then bed. Night Sirens! xxxxxxxxxx

  336.  #336Goodheart on April 13, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Nite Heartbeat. Toodles Siena. I must go too. I have an eye appointment. Till later…

  337.  #337heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    I didn’t want to mention my goat…. πŸ™‚

  338.  #338Lucy on April 13, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    LOL Goodheart!!!

    I live a couple hours from NYC. πŸ™‚

  339.  #339Goodheart on April 13, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    Lucy, we will have to set a rendezvous point.

    Anyone else want to jump on the Siren Train? We will be departing from the station sometime in June πŸ™‚

    We will have to get Heartbeat’s goat too. I’m good at getting people’s goats though πŸ™‚

    Toodles for now~

  340.  #340tinque on April 13, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Lucy – I’m here now on the east coast, just moved back after over twenty years in LA.
    So no need to feel alone or left out. Despite the winter which is kind of icky, don’t know how many I’ll be able to tolerate, New England is SO beautiful. I’m loving springtime again.
    And the city!!! I was there yesterday having girl time with a friend. (NYC I mean) and I get to go back this weekend to see the opera.
    My cat sings. LOUDLY, in the night and before drinking water.

  341.  #341Daria on April 13, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    Im in the Bay Area california! my parents would feel shocked if you house swapped with me!!

    that would definitely make a great scene in our movie

  342.  #342Lucy on April 13, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    LOL Daria!!! I am cracking up picturing it, even tho I don’t know your parents!

    I’ll swap with Daria!

    Daria, should I leave my kids (just a little younger than you) here for you or take them with me to shock your parents?

  343.  #343heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    I’m not gonna get any sleep, am I? lol!

    I have a tall, dark gorgeous son. I could leave him here…

  344.  #344heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    Tinque! πŸ™‚ I am slipping off to bed now but wanted to say hi I’ve missed you xxxx

  345.  #345Lucy on April 13, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    Dibs on heartbeat’s son for my beautiful dark-haired daughter!!!!

  346.  #346Daria on April 13, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    Lucy – you can leave them for me to take care of !! we’ll be singing rap songs and smoking pot in no time!

  347.  #347Apple Jacks on April 13, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    It worked. Thanks, hearbeat! Goodheart you are so beautiful!

    Daria I used to live in San Jose! Loved it! I’ll be going to Los Angelas in a couple of weeks to visit my bro, YAAAYYYY!!! I love California! The last two years I’ve been living in Dallas…BLECH. I don’t like Texas.

  348.  #348Daria on April 13, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    only if they want to. we’ll also eat organic food and grassfed meat. and drink herb juices and coconut water.

  349.  #349heartbeat on April 13, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    Lucy lol πŸ™‚

    Night sirens!! xxxxxxxxxx

  350.  #350Siena on April 13, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    I heart coconut water! I have some in my fridge right now! When I get stressed out, my heart starts beating a mile a minute, and coconut water is the only thing that calms it down.

  351.  #351Daria on April 13, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    Siena – i just discoverd coconut water last week. JESUS!!

    it goes straight to the hydrating. i mean my body just LOVESSSS IT!!!!

  352.  #352Trutle Girl on April 13, 2010 at 5:31 pm

    Heartbeat and Ingrid-
    Wow! Ok is this the time for confessions or something?
    I had a female lover once too. For a year. It was fascinating. I am not gay, but it was a time in my life when I was just fed up to my neck with men and really wanted, needed a gentle touch physically and emotionally. I will never regret it. Learned a lot of myself and she was a really good person. She was lesbian and very attracted to me, and at the time, I just gave over to it. But after I knew that in my truest self I am hetero-I love men and can’t change, don’t want to.

  353.  #353dawn on April 13, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    Daria, I googled coconut water . Holy , you guys are on to something!!! Im going to get me some of that !!

  354.  #354Ingrid on April 13, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    WOW Turtle Girl! That;s almost the exact way I feel!!!

    The “Dike” type always seems to be attracted to me for some reason……..and my female “friend” was more of a man that many men I’ve known! lol But I never ever was “gay”–or could ever be– I think it was a phase probably for me, and it felt good at the time.

    It’s very nice to share here openly.

  355.  #355Ingrid on April 13, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    Where do you buy coconut water? Do you mean coconut milk? I see that in markets…..

    I want to try it too~~~~ sounds yummy as I adore anything coconut….

  356.  #356Simply Shannon on April 13, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    Lucy, I’m on the east coast in the South. I’ll swing up towards you, and then we’ll pick up Tinque and make it a cross country road trip.

    Siena, Daria, and Goodheart: Care to meet us East Coasters somewhere in the middle and exchange house keys?

  357.  #357Simply Shannon on April 13, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    For those following my riveting story of fear and intrigue… dum da dum dum dummmmm…. πŸ™‚

    Mr. Fabulous Kisser picked me up today and took me to dinner. We had a great time but he did not ask me when he would see me again (which is what he usually does before the end of the date). Hmmm. Very interesting. So all that fear before for nothing. I feel kind of relaxed about it right now. I mean, it’s Tuesday. So all bets are off for my weekend now anyway. I’ve just made other plans. La, la, la.

    I can do this. I think I can, I think I can. Pushing through the fear…

    Gosh, I feel anxious again. It’s okay. I will be good no matter what. If he walks, he walks. I was feeling kind of bored and unsure anyway. Right?

    He’s still a fabulous kisser (really the best kisser ever for me) and he’s a good man. I just don’t feel all the fireworks that I would expect/ want for a forever love. And I think I started overfunctioning and the romance kind of fizzled. I dunno. I just feel bored and not so sexy anymore. It feels weird.

    So I’ll go out with Mr. Masculine Man on Friday. And I’ve responded to some fellas on POF again (gosh they are bombarding me with emails again – a little overwhelming).

  358.  #358Simply Shannon on April 13, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    Okay, one more thing…

    I’m feeling bold (to steal some of Siena’s thunder). I’ve really cranked up the honesty factor in my responses to my POF guys. One guy’s profile said “self-employed” and my alarm bell’s go off with that because that’s what my ex’s profile says and I KNOW he’s unemployed. So I asked him about it. Turns out he owns a restaurant and then HE called me out because my profile says “Professional”. LOL!

    Another guy had something in his profile about not going to bars. I felt defensive reading it because I happen to go to bars. He responded and actually made some changes to his profile based on what I said. I haven’t read it yet but I feel so amused.

    Sweet dreams to all the beautiful ladies here!


  359.  #359Ingrid on April 13, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    Dear Heartbeat:

    WOW! Thanks for sharing your story~

    Hi Rori: Yes, I have seen the film “Personal Best” back in my 20’s. Another really great and sensual film I loved too is called “Henry and June”, about the author Anais Nin. It’s amazing!

  360.  #360Daria on April 13, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    Ingrid – NOT cocount milk.

    Young coconut juice. It comes in 24ounce looking cans at wholefoods. It’s like a sports drink from nature… thrist quenching and full of electrolytes to energize the body.

  361.  #361mary on April 13, 2010 at 10:09 pm

    Simply Shannon,

    My wish for you:

    A new masculine man who is a fab kisser!

  362.  #362mary on April 13, 2010 at 10:16 pm


    “starve us out of integrity”

    “stress us out of freedom and compassion”


  363.  #363mary on April 13, 2010 at 10:18 pm

    Tomorrow I’m going to philosopher’s cafe because I’m a diva and I can do anything.

  364.  #364mary on April 13, 2010 at 10:19 pm

    SS: or for fab kisser to become a masculine man and step up! (he might…!)

  365.  #365tinque on April 14, 2010 at 8:01 am

    “Lucy, I’m on the east coast in the South. I’ll swing up towards you, and then we’ll pick up Tinque and make it a cross country road trip.”

    Shannon, yes please…

  366.  #366Simply Shannon on April 14, 2010 at 8:15 am

    This is all just crazy. I feel angry with Mr. Fab Kisser right now. But now that I’m noticing my feelings, the anger is really fear and I’m projecting it on to him. Fear that he’ll rebuff me so I’m stinging him first and protecting myself. This is all really quite interesting.

    I just told him that I already have plans for Friday. His comment “hot date?” Thankfully he had other stuff in the email so I just kind of ignored that comment and answered the other stuff.

    Did anyone else get the rock-climbing tool today from Rori? This part spoke so loudly to me!!
    – – – – – –

    Feel how it feels even if you’re scared,
    because getting free and feeling good is always
    going to feel a bit scary at first…even

    But it’s so worth it.

    I know how scary this kind of “freedom” can
    feel – I always felt that if I could just HOLD ON
    tight enough, just climb hard enough – my man
    would come through for me.

    When I felt like I was falling, or just
    hanging there, my impulse was ALWAYS to get back
    on that rock face and keep trying to climb across,
    upside down, sideways, up – whatever it took.

    My feelings were always so tied up in the
    goal – GETTING to the top. I couldn’t even feel
    what I was REALLY feeling – which was ANGER,
    desperation, and… disgust.

    I felt disgust with him, disgust with the wall,
    disgust with the process, distrust and disgust
    for love… and for myself.

    But when I learned to stop climbing, I didn’t
    even have to think about whether I was “letting
    go” or not – I just knew I didn’t have to hold on
    so hard!

    So, the next time you recognize yourself
    holding on so tight out of desperation, imagine
    yourself climbing the wall, remember this tool,
    and then STOP HOLDING ON. Stop Climbing.

    Even if you don’t know it right now, you CAN
    trust yourself – I KNOW you can!

  367.  #367Ingrid on April 14, 2010 at 8:30 am

    Shannon: Yes, got that awesome rock climbing letter this morning too. It’s such a great analogy!

    I feel mad at your man for what he said to you when you said you were busy Friday, “hot date”? Forget him is my initial impression. I feel if he was jealous you may have a date for Friday, he would reacted differently. By him saying this, it’s almost a joke, the way he’s saying it.

    I remember when I was dating my husband, he wouldn’t bother to make plans ahead sometimes and it really bugged me. One time was New Year’s Eve. I hadn’t heard about any plans even the day prior. So I invited a friend over just to hang out. Sure enough there was a knock on my door around 10:00 p.m. I just ignored it. I felt steaming mad. Yet, never said anything. The next day he non-chalantly said, “I stopped by yesterday night”……I felt if he cared enough he would have made plans in advance!!!!! This really pisses me off!

    He doesn’t seem very worthy Shannon. These last-minute men, dunno. I married my “last minute man”……

  368.  #368dawn on April 14, 2010 at 8:39 am

    God luv ya Shannon ! Yes , Ingrid but how did it make you feel ?

  369.  #369Ingrid on April 14, 2010 at 8:46 am


    It made me feel furious, un-loved and not that important enough for him to “plan” something with ahead of time. It also made feel very very hurt. We had been dating a year. The next New Year’s Eve, he proposed on bended knee with a ring and Dom Perrion.

    My h is a “last minute” man in everything I know now. It wasn’t just me personally. He’s late to everything and does everything at the last minute.
    Renews his driver’s license ON his b-day, the day it expires. That type. Still, when dating, this behavior feels horrible!!!! Looking back, maybe I should have said something. Think I was trying to seem like it was no big deal, when it WAS!!!! Think I would have expressed that it hurt me he didn’t plan anything sooner.

  370.  #370dawn on April 14, 2010 at 9:19 am

    Shannon, Its at the “gotta sting ” part for me that I realised i felt afraid . It also makes me feel out of control. I felt better to face the fear I suppose and let go a little. I felt better. I realised that I also feared losing control. It never ends LOL ! I guess that was insecurity rearing its ugly head. Uggh !

  371.  #371Goodheart on April 14, 2010 at 9:28 am

    Shannon & Tinque, let’s meet in Chicago πŸ™‚

    SS, I probably would’ve replied to Fab Kissers, “Hot date?” question with, “I don’t know yet, we’ll see :-)”

    Isn’t it good if the guys know we are not waiting for them? That we have other options?

    I feel curious why you ignored it. Were you protecting his feelings or were you afraid he wouldn’t step up & instead wouldn’t want to compete for you? I ask these questions because I have always done the same thing – avoided letting a guy I really liked but wasn’t exclusive with know I was dating other guys. I regret this. I think a little competition is good for them. And us.

  372.  #372Goodheart on April 14, 2010 at 9:32 am

    Apple Jacks, thank you! And Dallas will be right on our way to Chicago so we’ll come get you too πŸ™‚ I have friends that live in Sequin & I’m supposed to go visit them….sometime (it’s on my list). Really want to see the River Walk.

  373.  #373Simply Shannon on April 14, 2010 at 9:42 am

    Alright I need some help. He followed up his email by saying:

    It’s none of my business but I feel weird you have plans for Friday and you didn’t say anything. Not that it’s any of my business. Just insecurity.

    Here’s my attempt at a reply:
    I feel weird too. I’ve been sensing distance lately. When we’re together, it feels kind of blah and not-special. I feel angry and tense a lot at some of our conversations and I’m still feeling unwanted (β€œmissing the signals”). I’ve also been feeling afraid. Right now it just feels better to not feel pressured. So yes, I’m going out on Friday night. It would feel great to see you on Saturday or whenever you want to see me.

    Alright, I feel afraid but I’m sending this anyway. I love you but I don’t want to lie to you about what I’m feeling.

    – – – – –

    If I call out my inner bitch, aka Shanaynay, she wants to say “yes, fool, I’ve got other plans” or to ignore his statement all together because it really isn’t his business.

    Okay, so I think I need to say the part about feeling weird and blah lately. I’ve been kind of tiptoeing around that with him already. He knows it. But do I address the Friday night issue or no?

    The other part is that I haven’t been dating anyone else so this kind of comes out of nowhere for him and for me. He’s “known” all along that I don’t want to be a girlfriend but I haven’t had to deliver that speech in awhile.

    Gosh, I need to grow some balls. I feel afraid!

  374.  #374dawn on April 14, 2010 at 10:08 am

    Simply Shannon, The last sentence feels like leaning forward to me. I feel it necessary to consider what feels good to me and not the man. If it were me I would just tell him I had made plans. You are being honest ! Even though you feel it may not be his business isnt it better for him to wonder if you are losing intrest instead of him thinking you are waitng ? Just a thought. If this is making you feel bad or too triggered I can stop. I can take a “shut up ” I just really resonate with all this. Im finding it helpful too.

  375.  #375Lucy on April 14, 2010 at 10:09 am

    Shannon, I feel glad that he told you he was feeling insecure — when I read “hot date?” my first thought was that it was coming from insecurity, because I have done pretty much the same shenanigan with guys out of my own insecurity. πŸ™‚

  376.  #376Siena on April 14, 2010 at 10:13 am

    SS, I think the fact that he’s “calling you out” on having other plans is awesome! He’s obviously interested! He stepped back, so you stepped back and now he’s realizing what he’s done. Very very siren-like of you!

    What about tweaking your note to say something like,

    “I feel weird too. I feel blah and tense and a little unwanted. I don’t want to be in a relationship where there’s a lot of distance. What do you think?”

    In other words, if this was me, I would make it all about me without explaining WHY I’m feeling what I’m feeling (except in “don’t want” statements)

    …and I say, turn the fear around into a question. “I wonder why I feel afraid?”

  377.  #377Lucy on April 14, 2010 at 10:14 am

    The other thing, Shannon, is that there are several different things going on for you, all kinda separate, but he’s not gonna know that if you don’t express it clearly.

    1. You decided even BEFORE dating him that you were not going to be exclusive with ANYONE before marriage was on the table.

    2. You have some mixed-up feelings about how things are going with him.

    3. Yes, you have a date on Friday, but it is NOT because of #2, it is because of #1. (For me, I would want to make this clear to him.)

  378.  #378Lucy on April 14, 2010 at 10:19 am

    He said “none of my business” twice. lol. He sounds like me. I would be saying that because I wished it WAS my business!

  379.  #379Simply Shannon on April 14, 2010 at 10:24 am

    Gosh you ladies are brilliant! Too bad for me I read these too late. This is what I sent.
    – – – –
    I actually felt surprised last night when you didn’t ask me out for Friday. And since I don’t like sitting at home on Friday nights, I made other plans. I dunno. I’ve been sensing distance lately. When we’re together, it feels kind of blah and not-special. I feel angry at some of our conversations, and I feel unwanted (aka β€œmissing the signals”). I’ve also been feeling afraid, like I’m going down this path and worrying about the future too much. I don’t want to feel worried anymore.

    Alright, I feel nervous but I’m sending this anyway. I love you but I don’t want to lie to you about what I’m feeling.

    It would feel great to see you on Saturday or whenever you want to see me.

    What do you think?

    – – – –

    I think I’m blaming him with my feeling messages. Oh well. It’s gone now. I completely love and accept myself and my fumbling words.

  380.  #380Lucy on April 14, 2010 at 10:36 am

    Shannon, that looks pretty good to me. I agree, it does feel a WEE bit “blaming” imho, but we’re not perfect, are we? πŸ™‚ Also, I find that sometimes when feeling messages are not at ALL blaming, people sometimes interpret them as blaming anyway — all depends on their filters.

    It will certainly let him know that you are not waiting around for him — but at the same time, he will see that you want him to step up so you can explore together the possibility of him being Mr. Right (but only if he is able to give you what you want and need in a relationship).

    Good job, Shannon. <3

  381.  #381Siena on April 14, 2010 at 10:40 am

    Shannon, I think that was endearing – the “Alright, I feel nervous but I’m sending this anyway. I love you but I don’t want to lie to you about what I’m feeling.”

    This is about authenticity, and that sounded very authentic. He’d be crazy if he didn’t fall more in love with you from that!

  382.  #382dawn on April 14, 2010 at 11:06 am

    Shannon, Forgive me ! Im feeling a little triggered by a lack of confidence in your letter. The biggest and very best thing ive learnt here is patience. I feel so much more willing now to just sit back. I dont like the nervous or the bad feeling i get when i start thinking too much.

  383.  #383dawn on April 14, 2010 at 11:25 am

    Im starting to see that its the encouragement they get when they are making us feel good that DRAWS them to us more so than the nudge we “think ” we are giving them when they are making us feel bad.

  384.  #384Siena on April 14, 2010 at 11:29 am

    Dawn, that feels really right to me! That sounds like “being an invitation”, doesn’t it? “Nudging” to me sounds like mothering (I do it too, no judgment here).

    It probably SCREAMS mothering to them… hmm… food for thought…

  385.  #385Goodheart on April 14, 2010 at 11:30 am

    I think I would’ve felt a little defensive if I got that email (your reply to him). I am just all about brief myself. I feel myself closing down when there are a lot of words for me to digest. I probably would’ve said, “Oh. Yes, I have plans for Friday & I didn’t expect that to make you feel weird. Do you know why you’re feeling weird?”

  386.  #386Siena on April 14, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    (Just sharing now) This reminds me of a Civil War documentary I watched about a month ago. The narrator read letters sent from mothers and sweethearts to soldiers, and would only reveal who the letter was from (either mother or sweetheart) after the narrator finished reading it.

    The mothers’ letters all said things like, “take care of yourself. Make sure you’re eating enough food. The fields need to be mowed (or whatever haha) when you return.”

    The sweethearts’ letters all said thing like, “I feel so lonely. The nights are long and cold. I think of you on the battlefield and I feel scared and uncertain.”

    I would have never been able to pick out the difference between the tone of the two types of letters before coming to Siren Island. But it was really really obvious to me who was writing to the soldier. It was an eye-opener for me!

  387.  #387Goodheart on April 14, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    OMG – I love the Civil War! That sounds a bit morbid, but it fascinates me. I have several books on it in my library. I know exactly the documentary you’re talking about, Siena. That is an amazing analogy.

    The sweetheart letters go straight to the soldiers’ hearts. It was so natural back then – the women didn’t overfunction.

  388.  #388Siena on April 14, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Goodheart, were we separated at birth? (LOL)

  389.  #389Goodheart on April 14, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    I think we were Siena. We even kind of posed the same way in pics πŸ™‚

  390.  #390Apple Jacks on April 14, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Goodheart, whenever you’re around let me know! My eyes are hurting….I am feeling overwhelmed by all the posts I missed. I feel like I have no idea what’s going on….Gosh coconut water sounds so good. I used to drink chlorophyll and aloe vera juice everyday. It’s nice and soothing.

  391.  #391Goodheart on April 14, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    Apple Jacks, I will for sure.

    The coconut talk is funny. I just started using Coconut Oil. It comes in a jar & looks like Crisco. It is supposed to be even better than olive oil. I am a freak & spread it on toast with a little honey (ok a lot of honey). Supposedly it burns fat, keeps wrinkles at bay & makes your hair shiney. I smooth it around my eyes when l’m lounging around at night & even put it in my hair as a deep conditioner. Get the unrefined stuff.

  392.  #392Goodheart on April 14, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    What does chlorophyl & aloe vera taste like?

  393.  #393tinque on April 14, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Goodheart – Sorry AJ, aloe and chlorophyll taste quite nasty. So does coconut oil, but it IS wonderful. I make a superfood “candy” with it adding raw cocoa, raw almond butter, almond meal, coconut shreds, hemp protein, agave, vanilla, and cinnamon, and sometimes I add goji berries. I’m addicted to this “candy”. I roll it into balls.
    Coconut oil is also wonderful as a hair conditioner and added into face preparations or used alone as Goodheart already said.

  394.  #394Siena on April 14, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    hmmmm… and I DO believe that coconut oil was the lube of choice for the sex therapist on Modern Siren. Coincidence ladies?

  395.  #395Lucy on April 14, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    Where do you get coconut oil?

    I use vitamin E and coconut oil inserts in my …. feefee … as per my gyn oncologist’s rx. πŸ™‚ Very nice.

  396.  #396Lucy on April 14, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    Oh yes, Siena, I think you are right! I love the way it feels there and it smells really good too! πŸ˜€

  397.  #397tinque on April 14, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Lucy – I get mine at Sunfoods online, but any health food store such as Whole Foods has it. May I ask why you use it with Vit. E has an insert?

    Siena – But not is your man will be visiting down there. It doesn’t taste so good.

  398.  #398Goodheart on April 14, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    Ok, another use for my coconut oil then (should the situation ever present itself!)

    I get it at Sprouts or any Whole Foods store.

  399.  #399Apple Jacks on April 14, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    I like the chlorofresh brand of chlorophyll. To me that tastes more like tea and in water it really just has a more green taste. Aloe vera gel I do like, it has a tangy greenish flavor. I guess these are all aquired tastes.

    I suffered from acne for years and in Cali when I started seeing an aesthetician (sorry I don’t know how to spell that), along with external care I took control of my internal care as well. Chlorophyll really keeps you clean on the inside, and also, it is an internal deoderizer. The bowels are the first place you will notice the effect, I kid you not.

    Aloe vera gel neutralizes stomach acids and cools the blood, which really helps in acne breakouts. For me i realized that I just had very hot blood and that’s what causes me to break out so I would put aloe vera gel in tea or water after the evening meal. chlorophyll I drank once in water on an empty stomach and the second time in water before going to sleep. Helped to keep my stomach really calm and intestines clean. There’s my science lesson for the day, lol.

  400.  #400Siena on April 14, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    Tinque, then what is the natural oil for that visit? Because el-sex-therapist was definitely talking about visits down there… but I guess I have the oil wrong.

    (LOL at my word choice. There’s still a little puritan in me!)

  401.  #401Lucy on April 14, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    Lol. The stuff I use does taste good — I tried it cuz I wanted to answer that question for the future. πŸ˜€

  402.  #402Lucy on April 14, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Not like yummy-good, but sultry, coconuty, exotic good. πŸ™‚

  403.  #403Siena on April 14, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    (LOL Lucy, “Pina colada” song running through my head)

    My green drink has aloe vera and clorophyll in it. But they mix it with other veggies and a ton of other stuff, and then I drink it with apple juice and water… so it tastes good like that!

  404.  #404Lucy on April 14, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    Tinque — my wonderful drop-dead gorgeous female gyn oncologist recommended it to keep things strong and supple “down there” (haha Siena :)) since I no longer have my ovaries to produce estrogen.

  405.  #405Goodheart on April 14, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    I find coconut oil to be very mild tasting. I probably wouldn’t down a plain tablespoon of it, but to me it tastes kind of cocunutty. And being so mild, adding just a little honey to it overtakes it.

    Apple Jacks, I am a huge tea drinker & I take it straight so I would probably acquire a taste for the aloe & chlorophyl (I’ll just call it chlo-aloe-phyl). And I really think I’ll do this because right now I am on yasmin bc pills strictly to keep my skin clear. If I even think about stopping I get a big ol’ zit.

  406.  #406Lucy on April 14, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    Maybe I should change my dating profile headline again: “If you like pina colada….” Lol.

  407.  #407Siena on April 14, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    wait, Goodheart, are you advocating mixing honey with coconut oil for the “down there” visits?

    LOL, I can see it now! “hold on babe… just let me… ya, hold on, I just need to reach… the…honey…” LOL

  408.  #408tinque on April 14, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    AJ is absolutely right that chlorophyll and aloe are WONDERFUL internal cleansers. Aloe regulates and soothes the bowel, but exercise caution if your system is at all sensitive. Go very slowly. Aloe externally is also good for burns. For oilier skins, it can be used to regulate the oils, but it is drying, so again be careful.
    aesthetician or esthetician, both are correct though the latter is more commonly used.

    Siena – As for down there, I have not found an oil to use with a partner. When you are alone you can use coconut or even olive oil.
    I love babeland’s brand lube. It’s paraben free, tasteless, and it has a really nice, long lasting consistency. And it’s inexpensive. I get it online. They have stores in San Francisco and somewhere on the east coast, either NY or Boston. I forget.

  409.  #409Goodheart on April 14, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    Stop it Siena, you’re making me laugh too hard! I’ve go this picture in my mind now…

    The honey could be a little sticky so maybe go easy on that. But then again, could be a good way to get your man stuck on you.

  410.  #410Siena on April 14, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    LOLOLOL! Now I’m totally gonna ruin the moment, because I’ll remember this convo and start laughing! I know I will! And that won’t go over well me thinks. too too funny!

  411.  #411tinque on April 14, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    I’m so glad you all like the taste of it alone. I’ll stick to my superfood candy. But I like the idea of using it in a smoothie. Or with honey.

    Lucy – Sorry to be so inquisitive, but how do you use it? What is the theory?
    I make up potions all the time with herbs from my garden infused into various oils depending on what I’m making and for what, face, body etc., so I’m thinking of formulating a feefee oil to be used after bathing. Thus my questions. I want to go make one right now.

  412.  #412Apple Jacks on April 14, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    Goodheart I know how hard it is to have acne. It’s a lifelong thing to maintain skin clarity. I managed to avoid the birth control route, but I started seeing a professional in California, and got extractions and peels and use customized products from the “Cosmedix” brand. These products are very expensive but they last a long time. Using that has helped me A LOT. The past year I didn’t have any money so I couldn’t use it and last month my breakouts were returning with a vengeance after 4 and a half years of calm. I managed to gather the money I can and started up again, and my skin is calming down.

    Another thing that I did along with the external skin care was diet. I found a woman online named Karen Jessett and on her site she talked about how we should eat fruits on an empty stomach, and had a list of what kinds of foods are skin savers and skin killers. Just from reading the online tips, I cultivated my own diet. First thing I would eat after rising and drinking my chlorophyll water would be two pieces of friut and a piece of raw vegetable. Example, a handful of strawberries, a kiwi, and a handful of baby carrots. I’d wait a half an hour and then eat breaksfast, an organic brown egg either boiled or lightly fried in organic olive oil. A fourth cup of brown rice or whole grain organic tortilla (doesn’t have to be organic, but I was trying to really detox), with some multi colred bell peppers. Then I’d wait till I was empty again and before lunch again I’d do two pieces of fruit, a piece of vegetable and a lunch like an organi whole grain half tofu sandwich, or organic soup, stew, etc. I would eat strictly vegetarian for four days and two days eat fish. For dinner I’d always eat brown rice, some stir fried vegetables in organic olive oil, one raw vegetable, maybe a salad before dinner and either tofu or salmon. After every meal, or at least the evening meal, I’d drink an herbal tea with the aloe vera gel, and after five days of eating like this my skin and eyes would really glow. My aesthetician would love it.

    Of course it’s rather expensive to eat like that, but at the very least try to eat fruit on an empty stomach. Melons however, should be eaten totally alone. Always wait a half an hour after eating a melon before eating other foods. At least I feel that this really helped me from the inside out. I hope this post made sense and isn’t too babbly. My eyes hurt.

  413.  #413Apple Jacks on April 14, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Tinque is right, always exercise caution when trying something new like this. I just jumped into it and found that my system really liked this stuff so it was good for me. Make sure you do what’s good for you.

  414.  #414Daria on April 14, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    Tinque do you cook or refrigerate your candy to get it to stay in balls?

    or does the almond meal act like flour?

    i make a similar without almond meal and let it spread and refrigearate, then it comes out like a sheet of coconut chocolate… a lil oily as it melts in my mouth but yummy

    i also dont really like the coconut oil taste alone… much better with honey

    coconut JUICE ! however is totally diff

  415.  #415tinque on April 14, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    Daria – I do refrigerate them, but I don’t have to. They keep their shape. I think it’s ratio of wet to dry ingredients. If you want the proportions, I would be happy to post the recipe here.
    I’m so glad you mentioned the water. I had wanted to try it and forgot about it.

  416.  #416Goodheart on April 14, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    Apple Jacks, I got on procativ & the yasmin about 8 years ago & the combo totally cleared my skin. I used to get only one or two zits, but the big ones. I tried to remove the bc & just use the proactiv, but it would start the cycle again. I use only the proactiv cleanser, everything else dries my skin out. I also use alpha-hydroxy lotion. As far as my diet, I’ve always been a fruit & veggie nut (banana first thing in the morning & then some string cheese). Last night I concocted a “soup” with boiled orange cauliflower, then I add a can of black beans, can of diced tomotoes, pepper, garlic & a little shredded cheese. Yum. My downfall is chocolate though. I try to eat only the best brands. Thanks for your tips, I will try incorporating them & then maybe attempt to get off the bc.

    Off to a meeting.

  417.  #417Lucy on April 14, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    Tinque — They are semi-solid vaginal suppositories. Vit E helps to maintain tissue strength and elasticity, and the coconut oil keeps the tissue soft and moist. They melt inside the body from the heat. πŸ™‚ After they melt they dribble down a little and coat the outside parts too. (I use them at night when going to bed so that most of it stays inside.) It is quite a lovely feeling and feels like I’m on a tropical island with the coconut smell, haha. πŸ™‚ No need for any other lubricant at all — one insert is good for about a week for me.

  418.  #418Lucy on April 14, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    It must be interesting for Rori when she logs on each day to see what her Sirens are up to. πŸ˜€

  419.  #419dawn on April 14, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    Lucy, Ive had a hysterectomy ( 21yrs ago ) i do hormone replacement but it helps very little with lubrication. Do I need a prescription or is a over the counter ?

  420.  #420tinque on April 14, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    Thank you Lucy for the information. I think I will make an after shower or bath feefee care oil based on this, maybe some natural fragrance added which would also act as an aphrodisiac. By the time the man comes around, taste and smell would have dissipated.
    This will be my tomorrow project. Fun, fun…

  421.  #421tinque on April 14, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    dawn – there are bio-identical hormones available by prescription which also aid in lubrication.

  422.  #422dawn on April 14, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    Tinque, I think Ive heard of those . They are adjusted (so to speak ) to your own hormones ? I will look into that. Thanks

  423.  #423Lucy on April 14, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    Dawn, it’s over the counter. I get it from a natural medicine store in my city. I think the brand is Carlson’s.

    I can’t take hormone replacements (even bio-identical) because of the nature of the cancer I had, but I can eat up to two servings a day of phyto-estrogens (plant estrogens), and they help a lot. If you don’t have a cancer issue, you could eat more than two servings. Ground flaxseed, chick peas/hummus, and soy milk are the main ones I use.

  424.  #424dawn on April 14, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    Lucy, Thanks so much . There is just no end to the information i get here !

  425.  #425Apple Jacks on April 14, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    Hey Goodheart,

    I totally understand. I’m sure when the timing is right you’ll be able to get off the bc. It’s a lifelong process our skin. It’s all trial and error…if something’s working for you stick with it. But eating fruit on an empty stomach, I kid you not was the best beauty advice I have ever gotten.

    Your soup sounds so flavorful! Orange and cauliflower? How did it turn out? Lol, my mouth is watering. *slurp*

  426.  #426tinque on April 14, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    dawn – yes so to speak, but the wonderful thing is they are naturally derived as opposed to chemically derived. You get your blood check every few months or so if you want, but if you feel fine, it;s not necessary.
    Other really good phytoestrogens are red clover which you can infuse or make tea from capsules, the blossoms are more potent than the leaves, but a mix of the two is good, red raspberry leaf, black cohosh is good for boosting estrogen, chasteberry otherwise known as vitex boosts progesterone, wild yam, evening primrose oil is the gentlest for the very sensitive types, oatstraw for a libido boost, DHEA for stimulating all hormones and is said to also boost libido, but only take for three months at a time, take at least a one month break.
    There’s more, but this is a good start.
    Good luck. I know a great deal about this stuff, so feel free to ask.
    As with any herbs, they are natural drugs, so go slowly, and monitor how you feel.

  427.  #427dawn on April 14, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    Tinque, Thanks . Im going to try some of these ! I will be sure to let you know how I make out . I really like the natural aspects. My 2 maternal aunts had breast cancer………… I feel afraid !

  428.  #428Goodheart on April 14, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    Apple Jacks, it’s orange cauliflower. I found it in the store yesterday. I thought it looked pretty so I bought it. The soup was really good! I just boiled the cauliflower until it was ultra soft, drained off the water & then added the other stuff & heated it slowly. I would’ve added more stuff if it I had it (mushrooms, peppers, etc.).

    I’m curious why the fruit should be eaten on an empty stomach? Is that so there isn’t any other food to interfere?

    Ok, signing off till tomorrow. Nite all.

  429.  #429tinque on April 14, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    dawn – if you worry about any breast diseases, violet infusion, violet anything, oil, tincture.
    You can get dried, organic herbs at my favorite site,, owned and run by women, wonderful for making infusions which is one ounce dried herb to one quart boiling water which you let steep overnight, drain and drink all of half all day as is or with honey.

  430.  #430Ingrid on April 14, 2010 at 7:52 pm

    Mary and Emily:

    Wow! I feel simply honored to pray for you both. I believe most definitely in the awesome power of prayer, and also if something/someone is meant to be, in the scheme of this path/journey we call life, it will work out. It will just flow, like a flowing waterfall which ends in a calm and peaceful stream.

    Hope everyone is doing well today.

  431.  #431Ingrid on April 14, 2010 at 7:57 pm


    Were, per chance you at a Whole Foods today? It was THE weirdest thing. I walked past a gal who looked exactly like you, at least what I can see by your pic, and I kinda paused for a moment. This gal smiled at me and said “hi”. It was quite bizarre. It would be so funny if it was you!!! lol. I was there buying the coconut water. It’s kinda bland, but it tastes very natural. Will drink some more after exercising tomorrow.

  432.  #432Ingrid on April 14, 2010 at 8:08 pm


    What is your advice for menopause and hot flashes? Just began with these about a month ago. Is Black Cohash one of the main herbs? This is in the tincture I bought at Whole Foods, but so far, it hasn’t helped. YCCH…It’s been embarassing when on a couple job interviews…..but I just laugh at it. Once I pulled out my oriental fan, began fanning myself, and said “sorry…must be a hot flash”…….(never got that job—lol) –I very much believe in “divine providence”. I know and am confident that the job I am meant to have will sooner or later appear. This is the main thing I need right now to heal my life, and help me feel better about myself, after all I’ve been through, and not be completely financial dependent on my husband, and feeling so trapped and helpless with no options, just like another poster mentioned above, and Rori gave her this advice….to find some sort of a job #1. YAY~~~~

    I somehow feel though ladies, that IF I had been working when my h had his affair, I may have just up and divorced him, and perhaps this is not what God’s plan was/is for me and my family. I sense this now. It’s funny how you often can see things after the fact, but not while you’re in them. Like pining away for a man, then sometime later in the future, you ask yourself, “why in the world did I do that”? He wasn’t even worth it! Such is life. A journey.

  433.  #433Lucy on April 14, 2010 at 8:26 pm

    Ingrid — Please add me to your prayer list. Thanks!

    For hot flashes and other menopause symptoms (which I had really bad due to my surgery) I found ground flaxseed, chick peas, hummus, and soy milk to be the most helpful — I experimented with 3-4 servings a day for awhile and that was VERY effective, but I had to go back to only 2 servings/day due to my oncologist’s concern about my cancer returning. Black cohosh did not seem to help. Tried a bunch of other things, too, and the ones I mentioned were the best for me personally. Different bodies respond differently though.

  434.  #434Ingrid on April 14, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    Hi Lucy:

    What would you like me to pray for/about?
    Mary and Emily too: For your relationships and meeting the right man I presume? For wisdom, courage, and insight. Yes.

  435.  #435Ingrid on April 14, 2010 at 8:32 pm


    Thank you. Will buy hummus and soy milk tomorrow and give it a try daily. I love hummus with pita bread—especially that spicy pepper kind. YUMMMM

  436.  #436Lucy on April 14, 2010 at 8:35 pm

    WELL, Ingrid, what I would REALLY like you to pray for is that God would see fit to inspire TN man to step up and claim me as his one and only and marry me and love me and grow old with me……WOOHOO! YEAH! πŸ˜€

    BUT….maybe…. we should pray for something less specific…….yes, I suppose we should, shouldn’t we? Like the right man, whoever he is…..

    Even though I love TN man love him love him love him and he feels so right for me.



  437.  #437Ingrid on April 14, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    Oh I will Lucy. That IF he’s the one meant for you, it will be known, and soon!!!! Also for your calmness of spirit, that either way, it will be fine.

    That you will know in your heart of hearts. And that if it is meant to be, some event will happen to Mr. TN to wake him up and propose to you~~~~~yes. Something mysterious, only God knows about. I love this verse: Isaiah 55:8: “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are my ways your ways, saith the Lord”

    God Bless You Lucy. You deserve someone wonderful~

  438.  #438Lucy on April 14, 2010 at 8:53 pm

    Oh, Ingrid! Thank you so much!!!! I LOVE all of what you wrote – it’s perfect and beautiful and loving and so encouraging! I am printing it out so I can read it any time I start to feel anxious or sad about it all. Thank you so much, and God bless you too. <3

  439.  #439heartbeat on April 14, 2010 at 10:43 pm


  440.  #440heartbeat on April 14, 2010 at 10:44 pm

    That’s what my health worker recommended at the menopause clinic. (Tinque I remember you mentioned something similar?)

    I felt my libido flagging, but now it’s not – as much – I was unhappy and stressed.

    I never got round to getting any Horny Goat Weed but I might try it anyway πŸ™‚

  441.  #441heartbeat on April 14, 2010 at 10:51 pm

    Ingrid – no it was my doppelganger:) I’m in the UK but she seems to travel the world. So I’d have been asleep in my beddy while you were out shopping, and now I’m just up when most sirens are getting into their jamas.

    Ingrid I just love you! I love the way you get so far out and then come back in again, like a mighty tide. I love that you get mad and drink whisky, and that you worked in such diverse careers as legal and beauty. YOU’RE JUST GREAT and I’m glad you’re here xxxx

  442.  #442heartbeat on April 14, 2010 at 10:56 pm

    I love the diverse mix of sirens on here. I feel so very honoured to be amongst you. I really do. I could just burst into tears with gratitude. In fact – I’m going to. xxxx

  443.  #443heartbeat on April 14, 2010 at 11:09 pm

    Dear God – it’s me again. Thank you for all the food and sleep you sent me after I last wrote, also for all the loving kindness that’s come my way.

    I’ve been thinking lately how much I enjoy designing things – pictures, gardens, inventions, flyers, websites etc. I know you’ll know this already, but I really feel so happy and engrossed when I’m doing this. I feel so happy I could fly!

    Dear God I’d love to feel that way more and more. Could you arrange that for me, please? I trust you will arrange this the best way, cuz I get all tied up in knots when I think about it.

    You see (well I know you do) I’ve got pretty good at my job but I’m starting to feel my time working in that field is drawing to a close. It’s weird, cuz I’m getting more work offers than I can shake a stick at.

    But I feel I’ve made a difference to many lives and now I’d like to REALLY ENJOY MYSELF and bring happiness and pleasure to others through my art and design. I feel great imagining that.

    Thank you for listening, God. I’m really looking forward to hearing from you again. I love you. Heartbeat xxxx

  444.  #444heartbeat on April 15, 2010 at 12:34 am

    Turtle Girl – hey I’ve missed you! – thanks for your story too, I totally get it. I feel relieved to be not the only one, thanks to Ingrid telling her story. xx

    Y’know I feel wierd – and this happened last time I mentioned this bit of my story, in passing, on a previous post, ages ago. No-one mentioned it. And I’m not saying this so everyone will suddenly start commenting on it, and I appreciate Rori’s thanks, and Ingrid and Turtle Girl responding. I honestly have no idea and there is so much fun going on that it doesn’t feel that important really.

    But what’s interesting to me is I notice how I start to feel nervous and embarrassed, as if I’ve done something wrong and people will reject me. I start to feel afraid that no-one will like me any more and ignore me. Well that’s such an OLD story – I heal that NOW! Thank you.

    And I’m not saying that to get reassurance either – in fact it I might feel overwhelmed if sirens started sending rescuing messages. Maybe I need to heal that too – feeling overwhelmed. Yes, I heal that NOW. I am a siren who can receive love without feeling embarrassed.

  445.  #445Daria on April 15, 2010 at 1:26 am

    My man kicks ass.

    He told me he’d be here tomorrow at 1 or 2.

    He called later and i said i feel better to know a time exactly so that i can plan.

    He said:

    ok be ready at 1 and I’ll be there at 2.


    God love him. I’m starting to pick up Irish Siren speak!

  446.  #446Daria on April 15, 2010 at 1:30 am

    I get now what Rori says about me having to EXPERIENCE not just know intellectually.

    For example I was coming back from dance class and one of two routes home was going to be driving through the city where my man lives to go home –

    so he called me that he wants to see me tomorrow. He didnt ask Where I was. so he’s like i dont want to wait that long till saturday I want to see yout omorrow. and im thinking

    Im SOOO Close to saying hey u kno im driving thru your city ill stop by…

    (i had told him i no longer want to drive to him. i did it 3 times and didnt like how i was feeling. we had talks about it and i stood by it when he asked me to come the following 7 times – sigh- the price of him getting used to my leaning forward lol).

    I DIDNT say it… and he never found out where i was to ask me, or im pretty sure i had a huge chance of saying yes….

    and guess what! he then says. IM GONNA COME SEE YOU TOMORROW!!



  447.  #447Daria on April 15, 2010 at 1:32 am

    umm my point was that even tho i knew i wanted to not drive to him, in the moment i had gotten in the habit of… how easy it would be to just drive there… and i almost did it!


    glad i didnt go for it.

    building new him coming to me habit which keeps me attracted to him

    thats right i said it keeps ME attracted

    not just him

    its about me

    i get to feeling bad and feeling unattracted in some way if i lean forward

  448.  #448Daria on April 15, 2010 at 1:42 am

    okay Rori’s eletter I didnt get how the bottom person was holding the rope to keep u safe – so i looked up rock climbing …

    now its got me wanting to try it hehe

    wow Rock climbing … another non ghetto sport… what will happen to my identity lol

    im expanding.!! its ok to expand! breathe

  449.  #449Daria on April 15, 2010 at 1:44 am

    For other newwbies:

    from wikipedia


    In top-roping, an anchor is set up at the summit of a route prior to the start of a climb. Rope is run through the anchor; one end attaches to the climber and the other to the belayer, who keeps the rope taut during the climb and prevents long falls. This type of climbing is widely regarded as the safest type of climbing, with the lowest chance of injury. It is also the first type of climbing most people do when learning to climb, as it allows the climber to climb freely and the belayer to learn how to belay more proficiently.

  450.  #450dawn on April 15, 2010 at 5:28 am

    Daria, I felt sad to read you feel sad. I love your advice. When i first came here You were the one who made things make sense and you never faultered, not once. In a sense i suppose you were my belayer. That rope kept taut and gave me the confidence and voice I have today.

  451.  #451tinque on April 15, 2010 at 8:47 am

    “menopause and hot flashes? ”
    Ingrid – Unfortunately it will have to be a trial and error process to find what works for you. Yes black cohosh is a good one, but you might try using it with chasteberry/vitex. Try evening primrose oil. Wild yam in cream form is another one to try.
    Red clover is another good one.
    Try one at a time, and give it two weeks or more before you decide it it’s working.
    another one is false unicorn.

  452.  #452tinque on April 15, 2010 at 8:54 am

    Soy is something you don’t want to overdo. It’s been given more hype than it deserves in the media. For many it’s really hard on the digestive system. So Ingrid, moderation. I’m not sure why chick peas would help Lucy. Interesting, but tasty for sure.
    Yes heartbeat I forgot about horny goat weed. That’s another good one to try.
    Like I said though, try one at a time.

  453.  #453Ingrid on April 15, 2010 at 10:16 am

    Hi Heartbeat:

    You sound so creative! What a gift! And how n e a t! I am the creative type too, and so is my husband. I know I could not live without creative things in my life, without the arts and music, theatre, opera and ballet and museums, and culture, and fashion. It keeps my soul alive. HB: is your job in this field? May I ask what do you do? Jewelry making? SOOO cool.
    Siena: That is SO cool how you trained to be a classical ballerina! Tell me more about it! How many years did you study and why did you stop? What do you do for work now? I adore the ballet and took lessons for several years myself, but found out I have no dancing talent. Athletic talent, yes, dancing NO. lol. Ya can’t have it all~ My sister is law was a classical ballerina in Europe. Luv Luv talking about art and culture, music, etc.

  454.  #454Ingrid on April 15, 2010 at 10:18 am

    Tinque: Thank you so much. Will try them, one at a time, as you say. Writing it down now. May I ask you what do you do for a job? I’m highly curious. Are you a homeopathic physician?

  455.  #455Ingrid on April 15, 2010 at 10:31 am

    Dear Fellow Sirens:

    I am feeling very yuccy emotionally today, as when in counseling last evening with hubby, lots was triggered, brought up, and I started to cry, had some disturbing dreams and this morning kinda got into it, all the old pain with hubby again, things I needed and wanted to ask him, such as direct questions about this and that, and it felt so yuccy, his honest answers, which I knew would be hard to hear, but I had to know them. I had diarreah even this morning. My soul and heart is still struggling to overcome the pain of his affair and it is not easy. I sometimes feel there has been so much damage, I will never overcome it, which I expressed to him this morning and he left for work. I sometimes feel I am only holding on to my marriage until my youngest turns 18. I sometimes feel I am only holding on to my marriage until I become finally financially self-sufficient once again. Dunno. I feel so yuccy, just thinking of what my hubby DID to me, and all the many lies, deceits and betrayals over the past 2 years. I do not honestly know if I can ever recover, as much as I love him. I am feeling I do not even know if counseling is a good thing. It only opens cans of worms, which hurt to open.

    I feel by everything he has done, he doesn’t love me (enough) which is what he said to me 2 years ago when I first found out about his affair. I am sooo heart hurt sometimes, I cannot even function enough to even job hunt. Yesterday, I had 4 job interviews and felt good. Then after our counseling appt. last night, today I feel horrible and in much pain. HOW does one heal from betrayal? Rori, I really would appreciate hearing from you especially. You are married for about the same amount of time I am. And “Sally’s Story Part II” would be about how to heal, and move on, essentially. I don’t know if I can. I am feeling so sad today. I also feel such anger at my husband for what he’s done to our family. Sorry friends for airing, but I just had to.

    Thx for anyone reading this, and for listening.


  456.  #456dawn on April 15, 2010 at 10:34 am

    Im feeling triggered and very angry.Im feeling frusterated by denial . “Ya cant have it all ” leaves me feeling very sad. I can and will have it all. I feel worried . I feel put down by the “upper crust “. I feel jealous and ashamed . I feel powerless . I feel invisible . I feel lost. I love shouty dawn and she loves me. I feel soooooooooooooo much better.

  457.  #457tinque on April 15, 2010 at 10:41 am

    Ingrid – What don’t I do.
    My number one love is ballet. I’ve been dancing since the age of five and still do. I have had the luck and the joy to be able to partner with K at this late stage in my dancing life.
    Writing is my next love. I’ve written two books and hundreds of articles.
    I coach women, mostly regarding their sexuality and as it relates to their hearts, but also relationships.
    I’m a licensed esthetician specializing in a facial massage that tones and tightens the muscles in the face which is also therapeutic in that it targets numerous acupressure points thus activating healing throughout the body.
    I make all my products with herbs I grow myself that I infuse into various organic oils and custom blend, mostly with the intent to regenerate and firm the skin but to heal and soothe as well. Face serums, body butters, fresh rosewater.
    I make medicinal tinctures with my herbs too.
    I have certification in herbal medicines, but really it doesn’t mean much. I learned mostly by being interested and picking up things over the years from people I know and trust.
    So I kind of have a finger in many pots.

  458.  #458tinque on April 15, 2010 at 10:47 am

    Ingrid – To heal, you have to go through the painful feelings. Otherwise they will arise sooner or later in other ways, maybe worse ones.
    Remember the waters get murky, and then they clear.
    No decisions have to made right now.
    You will heal, but it takes time. You may or may not be able to continue with your husband, for betrayals are tough to overcome. Personally I couldn’t forgive something like this. That’s me though.
    Again no decisions have to made right now.
    You will have down feeling days. It’s normal. I would feel very concerned if you didn’t.

  459.  #459tinque on April 15, 2010 at 10:48 am

    yay dawn…:)

  460.  #460dawn on April 15, 2010 at 10:49 am

    Ingrid, I felt a need to hang on. I felt I was gonna lose control. I loved my man with ALL my heart. I felt sooo sad all the time. I carried what i let him do to me until i could no longer carry myself ! I let guilt and fear reign a holy terror o ver me . I was drowning . Please dont drown ! we all here want so desperately for you to start FEELING ! Really coming to terms with it . I am sooooo happy to hear about the counselling . You are an amazing woman. For all that youve endured here , you didnt run. It makes me feel very good that you stayed. Im writing from my heart now. feels peaceful .

  461.  #461Ingrid on April 15, 2010 at 11:04 am

    Thank you Tinque and Dawn:

    I am fascinated by you both. Tinque: I am a licensed Esthetician too, and trying to find work in this field presently, and some others as well. This is something I pursued when I left the field of law, years ago, as it is so much more creative and relaxing. I worked in salons for a few years then left to be home with my kiddos. Do you work in a salon now? Would love to hear about it, and how you support yourself and what job you do?
    Dawn: You are plain neat. I wish you lived next door cuz we’d go have coffee. I think your career is intriguing. I also find your honesty and bravery extraordinary.

  462.  #462Siena on April 15, 2010 at 11:09 am

    I wanna be Tinque in post #457 πŸ˜‰ except for the aesthetician part. I’d rather receive the facials than give them… and, come to think of it, I don’t really want to dance anymore. I’d rather watch.

    So maybe I’m just appreciating you, Tinque, more than wanting to be you (which is better anyway)


  463.  #463Lucy on April 15, 2010 at 11:22 am

    Tinque — chick peas are what hummus is made of, and they contain phytoestrogens. I eat either hummus or chick peas every day and they are the #1 thing that has helped me with my severe symptoms. I often mix the chick peas with olive oil, pomegranate-infused balsamic vinegar, garlic, and oregano, and spoon that combo over raw baby spinach. πŸ™‚

  464.  #464Ingrid on April 15, 2010 at 11:24 am

    Hi Sirens. I love thinking of myself as more of a siren lately! This feels sooo good. I know I always was a siren in my younger days, men were chasing after me and maybe I lost it though after 45….dunno, and after raising rambunceous teen boys too. It can do a number on women. Those of you who have kids know what I am talking about. It wears a gal out. That;s all the more reason she has to have a nice/sane/faithful husband, who isn’t just after looks and sex appeal. I feel afraid this is all my hubby was after when he married me, as I was a hot number back then. lol. Blush. And now married over 20 years, time and stress and child-bearing has taken it’s toll, on me, not him. He’s now chasing after younger babes which makes me sick. I want a man who is happy with his good dinner I fix for him, and he’s a good dad wanting to be no-where else but his easy chair at night, then cuddling with me in bed at night. My h is a rascal and I don’t know how to handle this. Maybe cuz he’s so handsome and gals stare at him non-stop. Soon he’lll lose this, as he nearly did when he found out lately he has high colesterol, he’s now been in a panic about healthiful eating and working out non-stop. It makes me sick. I feel like I’m married to an adolescent. What to do?

    I am curious Tinque, what you said about how you could not continue with a man who had an affair with a stripper as mine did? Please let me know you feelings on this with no holding back I ask you. I really am wanting other women’s opinions here and I thank you.

  465.  #465Lucy on April 15, 2010 at 11:29 am

    Heartbeat — I read your prayer (#443) on my phone in bed last night just before going to sleep and it felt incredibly inspiring to me personally. THANK YOU!

    Re: the other thing, the part of your story that you shared … My honest reaction when I read your story was “Another one. Interesting. I feel left out. Maybe that’s what *I* need to do….Wow. This feels uncomfortable.” So, I guess I made it more about me than about you. I even did a search for women on to explore my feelings about it.

    Thank you for sharing your story. And of course we still love you and like you and want to be your friends. <3


  466.  #466dawn on April 15, 2010 at 11:31 am

    Ingrid, I feel frusterated . If you could just tell us how all this makes you feel and not what you think about it .

  467.  #467Ingrid on April 15, 2010 at 11:34 am

    And exactly what does it mean to “go through painful feelings”? How does this look? Does this mean staying in bed for a month crying? What does this mean?

    Please tell me.

    I am still suffering so greatly at times the painful feelings from my h’;s affair with this slut. HOW do I go through my feelings? What should I do to “go through them”? Or even feel them? WHAT does this look like in exact terms? Can someone say so.?

  468.  #468Ingrid on April 15, 2010 at 11:36 am

    Hi Dawn:

    I am not feeling anything right now. I am only asking how others would feel if they were in my shoes.

  469.  #469Ingrid on April 15, 2010 at 11:38 am

    For now, I wanted to know from Tinque more of what she said, “she could not go through this”, what I have gone thru and what my situation was. I asked her to please tell me her feelings, that this would help me tons.

    Dawn: My feelings today are exactly what I said above in another post.

    Thx for asking friend.

  470.  #470Lucy on April 15, 2010 at 11:41 am

    Ingrid — I was not able to continue with my husband after his similar behavior, though I tried for several years. I have forgiven him now, but I would still not go back to him.

    Two things that would have helped me deal with it more smoothly if I had known them at the time:

    1. To express everything to him in feeling messages without blaming him. And “don’t want” statements. I did so much accusing, scolding, blaming, shaming, explaining, preaching, etc. that just prolonged the pain for me because all those things do NOTHING to help the matter. So, instead of, “How could you do this to me and the kids?” it would be “I FEEL so sad and angry and broken-hearted and terrified and I DON’T WANT a marriage where I feel this way. What do you think?”

    2. Realize that his behavior is a mirror, a teaching, for me. There is something in my past that it is re-enacting for me to heal. It happened this way because it was what I required for my growth and awakening consciousness, AND it will happen again and again (not necessarily the same scenario, but the same underlying emotional trigger) until I heal that wounded part inside myself. In some way, he was simply playing a role necessary to bring this woundedness to my attention. And I can actually be grateful to him for that. Whether it means we stay together or part ways.

    I feel bad that you are hurting so much, Ingrid. We are here for you.


  471.  #471dawn on April 15, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Ingrid, It has nothing to do with how it looks. I cant see you. Yes sometimes it gets messy. Even if i could see you id probably just wanna hug ya, but i cant. I feel compelled to somehow draw you out . You can yell at me but you better do it in feeling messages. !!!

  472.  #472dawn on April 15, 2010 at 11:46 am

    Cant say i didnt try ! I feel satisfied with that. I dont want to be part of your pity party !

  473.  #473Lucy on April 15, 2010 at 11:47 am

    Ingrid — To go through your feelings means to actually allow yourself to FEEL them without sedating or controlling them. Some ways we avoid (sedate/control) our feelings are: eating, talking, sleeping, writing, watching TV, smoking, THINKING, drinking, etc. Those things tend to put a stopper in our feelings and bottle them up so they are not felt and released. Just sit still and quiet and let the feelings come and don’t stop them. If thoughts come into your head, little stories about what’s happening, just drop the stories and focus on feeling your feelings instead of thinking thoughts about your feelings.

  474.  #474Ingrid on April 15, 2010 at 11:54 am

    Dawn: I just read what you endured and YOU are amazing! My grief and pain is nothing compared to others, or compared to the joy of heaven one day, for I do believe this home is only temporary and our eternal home is forever. I believe our problems in this life are just a passing thru, and don’t know about you, but I am waiting for my eternal home in glory, where is no more pain and suffering, only glory, being with God. I love this song

  475.  #475tinque on April 15, 2010 at 11:58 am

    Ingrid – I can only speak for me, so please keep this in mind. It has nothing to do with whether the woman is a stripper or something else.
    For ME there is nothing more intimate, more soul baring, more heart opening, more vulnerable than making love with my man.
    Treating sex casually as in having an affair for ME is the ultimate betrayal, for sex for ME goes way beyond the sexual act. I am fortunate in that I have a man who feels as I do.
    I know there are many women who have healed from this and gone on to have stronger relationships. I have a close friend who has done this.
    I could not. I could never forget. I may be able to forgive, but I could not forget, and that would always be in the way. I could not trust this person again as I once did. There would always be hesitation on my part, a holding back.
    That’s not the kind of relationship I want, one where the heart is not open fully.

    As for work, I have not been able to work for others in a very long time. I guess I don’t like being told what to do, for I know I can do it better my way. AND I resent having most of my earnings taken by a proprietor.
    I work for myself in my own little space in a loft bedroom overlooking the lake.
    I sell my products online and to other loyal users, friends and clients.
    I’m a lousy business woman though, and I am very okay with that. I would rather know I was able to help someone heal or feel better whether through my facial work or coaching than get paid. So I don’t make much, and that’s fine. K makes very good money and is happy to be the very main breadwinner.

  476.  #476Ingrid on April 15, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Thank You Dear Lucy:
    I have sooooo many bottled up feelings. It’s soooo hard. I do not know what to do with them.

    Thank you for your post about just “feeling them”. I still don’t know how one functions in life and feels them at the same time. Do you set a time to feel them? when you come home from your job?
    I am overcome with my feelings Lucy of being hurt and devastated with my h’s betrayal and lies and deceit and affair. I don’t know what to do with my feelings. HELP.

  477.  #477Ingrid on April 15, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    I feel afraid if I just felt them and let them go, I’d lose control. I am feeling them now and I am crying as I write this. I am still so hurt beyond belief over what my h has done to me and to our family. And it has been 2 years now, well since the beginning of his affair, but only one month since he supposedly “ended it permanently”. This is like a fresh wound. Which has not healed yet. I don’t want him to touch me. I do not even know if I can love him again. I do not know if I can respect him again. I feel now I cannot. I feel today, I hate him still. I feel today, the only reason I let him come home is for the kids’ sake, and for the sake of being a whole family unit,like we WERE, but are not now. I feel I can never have the respect for him like I did. And I told him so this morning. So…..what in crying out loud do I do?How in the hell do you explain how a woman can be madly in love with her man yet hate him too? Someone explain this to me, as this is me.

    I am looking for a job. That’s what I can do I guess.

    I wish I could have cut the ties, as I was too hurt, but I did not have the resources to do this. Also, I believe in marriage being forever, and I adore my hubby, or have. Since his betrayal, I do feel differently. He bought this slut a phone. Etc. Etc. I cannot even say anymore all the ways he has deceived me but there are soooo many. I am wounded. I hate my husband for it.

  478.  #478Lucy on April 15, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    Ingrid – I feel compassion for you. Yes, sometimes it is good to set aside time to just sit and feel.

    I, too, believed that marriage is forever. I also had the same Christian taboos against divorce that you do. It was hard to see beyond the “rules” to what was actually the most loving thing to do. Just like when Jesus got in trouble for healing a man’s shriveled hand on the Sabbath. He broke a “rule” because LOVE was a higher law. I am not saying you should leave your husband — that is a personal decision — I am just saying that I empathize with your position.

    Also, I know now that my leaving him was not only the most loving thing for ME, but for HIM as well because I couldn’t get past his behavior and I would have made the rest of his life a living hell because of my pain.

  479.  #479Lucy on April 15, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Ingrid — I would love to see you fill in the blanks here —

    I feel ….

    I feel…..

    I feel…..

    I feel…..

    (Not with THOUGHTS! with FEELINGS!)

  480.  #480Siena on April 15, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    Hi Ingrid, re #453 – I danced from the time I was about 4 to about 19. I literally grew up at the studio. I trained with some of the most amazing teachers from all over the world, met Rudolph Nureyev and countless other masters, performed just about every classical ballet there is, won some competitions… and was accepted to dance with my dream company, ABT, when a freak accident finished my career. I used to think that God ended my career, but now I actually think that I wanted it that way. I was on a train that I felt I couldn’t get off of any other way. Coming to terms with the fact that it was my choice (sub conscience as it may have been) has made me feel powerful again, where once I felt a victim.

    I love to watch ballet though. For me, nothing feels more amazing than being in a velvet-seated theater, watching the Kirov dance Swan Lake, or ABT dance Sleeping Beauty (they’re on tour dancing that this year) or Prokovief’s Romeo and Juliet. In fact, the music from Prokovief’s Romeo and Juliet balcony scene still brings me to tears every single time…

    …so that’s my story. What kind of sports were you involved in?

  481.  #481dawn on April 15, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    Ingrid, Its all about you and what you REALLY WANT .And in the KNOWING you are worth it. FEELING your power . You are worth more than some one who fucks strippers !!!!!!!!!!!! ( NO JUDGEMENT just trying to make a point) You do what feels good to you . That doesnt mean sitting around feeling sorry for yourself either. Feeling isnt wallowing. Feeling and being authentic draw our loved ones to us . They dont have to guess about us because we tell them our actual feelings . For instance has your husband ever asked you what was wrong and you just said nothing dear . You wernt being authentic. You said nothing because you didnt want to rock the boat. Honey , he has already rocked the boat. Honesty is best,

  482.  #482Ingrid on April 15, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    Hi Lucy: Thank you so much for your response to me. I cannot tell you all how much your responding to me means, as my friends in this life seem scarce just now…..also similar to you all or you would not be here so much either. (Lucy–prayed for you yesterday so be expecting some miracles)…OK? I thought you said in another thread Lucy, that you were with a man you did not really have that much feeling for……let me find it. This, then, may be quite a different situation between yours and my situation, as I adore my husband, love or have loved him with my whole and entire heart and soul, and this may be why I am sooo hurt about his betrayal. He was my everything. And I thought I was his, only to come to find out he preferred a stripper more than me, his love, the mother of his kids. (CRY)….* I will never get over this and I am crying now again**. sorry Sirens…..I am just soooo emo today.

    Siena: Hi so good to hear from you. I am thrilled to hear from another ballet gal. Ballet has always been one of my fav art forms. I studied too from the age of about 5 to about 20-25 on and off. I was long and lean, but had no dance talent, as I said and then became too heavy. lol. I was awesome at the bar, but that’s about all. HA! Have many friends in ABT and Bella Lewitsky, and SF Ballet too. So I gave it up when about 25 or so, then I got really involved in swim team again which I was on in college and women’s soccer, which I really loved too, and which was where I met alot of my “dike” friends—haha, who I had a lot of fun with! Now lately, I’ve gotten into cycling. It is lately one of my passions, and thank goodness keeps me in shape too.

    Do you Siena do other sports? Tell me more about your ballet experiences? Do you watch “Dancing with the Stars”?

  483.  #483Ingrid on April 15, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    Thank you Lucy and Dawn, my new friends. (hugs) Thank you both for even inquiring about me, and for asking more. You are both dears.

    I feel scared that my husband doesn’t love me ((enough)), as he even said 2 years ago, to withstand other women, such as strippers. Or any women who come onto him. Whatever. I feel mad.
    I feel ugly and fat ((sometimes)) I feel now that I am over 50, that I cannot compete with these young babes. Ones who totally come on to our men, and married ones at that.! Shame Shame! A woman with NO morals! To even do that is beyond me! But I feel if my husband wants to pursue strippers and younger women that’s his choice. I feel he has a right to do it, but that it would not be OK with me if he did. I feel finally I am able to let go if he wants to do this, where I was scared shitless that he did want to do this for the past 3 years. Now I am OK with it. I feel if that’s what he wants, I WILL be OK with it. Sad, devastated, but I will not die from it. Yes, it feels good to know this. Say this. Express this. I fear this is what will happen but I feel glad I have this site to come to. Thank you

    I feel insecure that my husband looks at babes on the street, and that he loves to oagle women wherever we go. This makes me feel less than. I hate this, and I hate him for doing it. This makes me lose respect for him greatly. This makes me feel sick and yuccy. This makes me feel like he doesn’t love me, which quite frankly ladies I feel he doesn’t. I feel it’s only a matter of time when he’ll be contacting his favorite slut/stripper again, and that I’ll need to be prepared for it. Sadly, I feel if my man loved me, he never would have had a stripper obsession in the first place. What do you all think? I am simply shattered and heart-broken still cuz of it. I feel simply shattered over it. I feel horrible and weak. I feel helpless, because I have no job, but alas this will change and soon! YAY! I feel confident it will.

  484.  #484heartbeat on April 15, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    Ingrid – I really feel a frantic energy reading your comments just now – counselling can bring feelings to the surface. Whether you leave your husband or not, you are still going to feel these feelings. Anger, sadness etc. What I do is be alone somewhere undisturbed – in my bed or car – and just feel them. Feel them in my body, say to myself ‘I feel sad’ and let myself cry. Just let my feelings happen. Without stories. I know – it seems strange but honestly I can testify it really does ease the pain. Imagine you are the most exotic flower – a flower coloured by every emotion, with spiky petals of anger, blue round leaves of sadness, yellow stamens of joy etc etc – whatever comes to your imagination. Because we are human, we have feelings, and that’s amazing – so alive and rich-textured!

  485.  #485Lucy on April 15, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    Ingrid — Thank you so much for praying for me! I am expecting some miracles!! πŸ™‚

    Yes, I don’t remember exactly how I worded it on that other thread — let me know if you find it — but I did love him with all my heart, wanted to be with him forever, was attracted and attached to him, loved making love with him, thought I was his one and only — and he was definitely my one and only — I would never have cheated on him and never wanted to — planned to grow old with him…. I even thought (before I knew what he was doing behind my back) that he was just stressed because of the kids and my daughter’s health and stuff and I imagined that when they were older he would feel better and more relaxed and we would have wonderful times together and that maybe then I could travel with him (he drives truck) and we would be so happy and be grandparents together and everything.

    So, I was absolutely stunned and heart-broken when I found out what he was doing. (I found out in a dream God gave me as an answer to my prayers.) I was furious, beyond furious. It just couldn’t be possible!!!! There was no way I would survive. I curled up on the laundry room floor in the fetal position, listening to the tumbling dryer, feeling its warmth, slipping into a stupor, thinking, “I am going to stay right here on the floor forever. I will never get up.” Then I heard my little girl, then 13, frightened, saying, “Mommy? Mommy? Are you okay? Mommy?” I can’t answer her. I am not okay. I cannot live. I cannot survive. “Mommy?” (whimpering now) “Mommy?” her small, soft hand touching my forehead tenderly. “Mommy? Are you alright?”

    And then a miracle happened. God gave me the strength to sit up. To hug my scared, loving little girl. To stand up. To walk out of that laundry room and to live, for the sake of my three innocent children. And it took one miracle after another after another, because I kept getting to that place again where I just couldn’t do it.

    There were some days when I could not get out of bed. I prayed, “God I cannot do this. I can’t take care of my children, so if it’s gonna happen, you’re gonna have to do it for me.” And he always did. For years my love for my children was the only thing that kept me from giving up completely — checking myself into a psych ward or checking out with suicide.

    Whew. I need to take a break.

  486.  #486Ingrid on April 15, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    I feel lately that it is still so hard to get over his infidelity. And that I never will, and that this is OK. I feel I know why they say infidelity destroys a marriage and why people divorce cuz of it, because it DOES destroy a marriage. Literally. It is so sad, and I am crying again…just thinking about the damage it has done to me and our kids and our family of over 20 years. My teen boys say, “why don’t you just divorce dad mom”? “He’s a scum, he doesn’t deserve you, he’ll never change” things like this. This breaks my heart again. BUT I have no job! And as previously stated I love him. BUT, as time goes by, how could I love a man who does this to me and his kids?????? NOT!

    I inquired of my husband this morning asking him to tell me the specifics of how and why he went about buying some stripper/slut a cell phone which he did and added our families money to for months and months. He was beating around the bush, hemming and hawing at how/why/and I cried and re-lived past hurts. He finally confessed he was at the strip club and she said her phone was moot, so he bought her one, (uh huh–adding money to it for months)…….THIS IS NOT OK WITH ME AND NEVER WAS! I felt NEVER will our marriage ever be the same again and that I hate him for even doing this.
    I feel horrible. I feel like I wish I could divorce him but I have no means and no money. I feel I never want to have sex with him again, I am soooo angry. I don’t know what to do with my anger. I don’t know how to process it. I feel it. I am enraged. I am hurt. I am crushed and devastated.

  487.  #487Lucy on April 15, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    Ingrid — As far as whether he loves you, I came to believe this: that he loved me as much as he was capable of loving (which was not enough for me).

    My children have said “Dad doesn’t love us.” I have told them, “He loves you as much as he is able to love.”

  488.  #488heartbeat on April 15, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    Ingrid – you asked what work I do – well actually I work in mental health, part therapist, part tutor. I sometimes teach art therapy to other professionals or work with groups for personal growth.

    I also have an honours degree in art & design, and write/publish poetry.

    And I get up an hour early every morning to read/post here for my personal therapy, plus an hour maybe in the evening (which is morning where you are!) It’s time I invest for my own good because I used to feel insecure in relationships and made some poor choices xx

  489.  #489Lucy on April 15, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    In my case, I did not have a job either. But I could not stay one more minute with him because of my anger. I felt afraid I could kill him and end up in jail.

    So, I told him I could not live with him, and that it would be best for the kids if we could stay in that house and HE would leave, so the kids could keep their friends and school and everything, because if I had to leave I would have to go stay with my parents in another state until I could make it on my own and that would uproot the kids. But, I said, it is your house too and I cannot make you leave, so I am asking if you will do this for the kids.

    He agreed and moved out. He also continued to provide financially for us as he did care about us, but was simply “unable” to be faithful.

  490.  #490heartbeat on April 15, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    Lucy – thank you for your lovely comment #465 and for sharing your response – I feel honoured!! And happy to be of inspiration. xx
    PS did you find anyone? (just teasin)

  491.  #491Ingrid on April 15, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    Hi Lucy:

    You are an amazing example of strength, and for your kids too. I admire you. You got up from the floor by that dryer and did it for your kids’ sake, if nothing else. Yes, I know the feeling.Lucy? were you working at that time? What job do you do?

    I also thought of suicide once in the bath when I was at an extreme low, bout a year ago now with another separation (again)) cuz of my h’s affair with some stripper/slut…. But then I thought of my boys, and how they need me. And of course I know I would never sink that low but never say never right? I was pretty low that night as I recall and it would have been easy to do, in so much grief., Still it is not right and most selfish. We must think of our kids and loved ones we leave behind. But Lucy, believe me, I thought of it too. You;re not alone here.

    God Bless You~

  492.  #492heartbeat on April 15, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    I feel embarrassed – I’m catching up on comments and just realised there’s a conversation going on with Lucy and Ingrid and it feels important, so I’ll hang back for a bit xx

  493.  #493Lucy on April 15, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    Heartbeat — lol, yeah, I put four women in my favorites list. The next day when I logged on, I was like, ewww, why are these women on my page? I like men!!!! lol

  494.  #494heartbeat on April 15, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    Lucy – lol! – well now you know for sure πŸ™‚ xx

  495.  #495heartbeat on April 15, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    Tinque – I didn’t know you did all them thangs!! Wow what a joy – and I love your gentle and relaxed approach to business. Feels wonderfully sensual xx

  496.  #496Ingrid on April 15, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    Dear Lucy:

    WOW! Thank you so much for sharing this.

    You really have been through the ringer so to speak too haven’t you? How long were you married and how old are your kids now? I have been married 20 years and my kids are 16 and 19, 2 boys.

    I just don’t know how much longer I can go on with this man. I don’t know IF I can ever get over my husband’s infidelity. He doesn’t seem to be trying very hard to regain my trust or doing one damn thing, other than going to counseling together. I sometimes do wish I had a means of financial support so I could have said goodbye…..BUT then again would this have been good for our kids? NO. Life is so much more about just our immediate needs and our feelings, when we have children. I believe we need to consider their needs first beyond our own, and this would be having both parents in the home, at least when they are not bickering or have MAJOR problems like drug addiction or something. When hearing a therapist recently on radio, they said 90% of kids wished their parents would get back together or stay together, sooooo this gives me good reason to stay with my hubby. I have to look just beyond MY needs and think of my sons. I have to look beyond “what makes me happy? what do I feel? do I feel good or bad?” I have to consider someone else besides myself at this time.

    Still, I am feeling like shit today.And mad at my hubby.

  497.  #497Siena on April 15, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    …so I just had an IM convo with a man I used to work with. It feels weird! He and I worked at the same company about 2 years ago, and he used to flirt with me a ton. One Monday morning, he came to work engaged. I felt shocked and felt a little hurt, because he never even mentioned a gf in the several months we worked together.

    But whatevs, I took it in stride. One day, we were in a meeting and waiting for the client to show up, and so it was just him and me. We were flirting a little back and forth (but nothing serious, he wasn’t married yet), and he jumped up and left the room. And I could see him outside the door he kinda put his head in his hands, looking like he was composing himself. When he came back into the room, he was cold with me. The next day he quit. And then got married.

    I actually thought it was honorable of him to quit.

    Now he’s on IM flirting (non sexual) with me – I haven’t talked to him in 2 years or so. I’ll never meet him him in person, so this feels harmless. Will never have an ’emotional affair’. But it makes me wonder – what’s his message? Is this just another “out of the woodwork” kind of thing? Should I ignore him? If I was his wife, I wouldn’t want him on IM with another woman… what would a siren do here?

  498.  #498heartbeat on April 15, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    Siena – I’d say something brief, like ‘this feels fun but you’re married. Byee!’ Or ‘It feels good remembering the fun we used to have. All the best’ (and not respond to any future messages).

  499.  #499heartbeat on April 15, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    I have a mega boundary around married or otherwise attached men who make an effort to make contact by email etc.

    Face to face – I have a pal at work who is married and flirts shamelessly with just about everyone non-male (lol!) and I feel ok about responding to that – it lightens up my day and adds a bit of an outrageous vibe to an otherwise upright and correct job. πŸ™‚

  500.  #500Siena on April 15, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    actually, heartbeat, that sounds like a good idea! It feels almost karmic – like if I say that now, then some woman in the future will say that to my man at some point (or something like that). hmm… well, he’s dark (not on IM) now, so if he ever comes back I’ll say that. Muchass grassyass!

  501.  #501Lucy on April 15, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    Ingrid — We were married 15 years. My kids are now 22 (daughter), 20 and 17 (sons). I thought, too, that it was best to make it work for the sake of the children, but I just was not able to do it emotionally. I believe they suffered more damage from my desperate holding on to the marriage — because I was so angry and unstable — than they would have if I had let go sooner. My best friend went through the same thing at the same time (talk about coincidences!), and our sons were best friends — but she divorced him very soon after she “found out” and she moved in with her parents and created a new life for herself and her young children (incl a six month old baby). My son has said he wished I would’ve done what she did. She just got remarried last summer. I felt guilty for awhile, but I came to understand that I did the very best I could do at the time and made the decisions that I felt were best for my kids at the time. That’s all we can do — our best with what we’ve got. I will pray that God leads you clearly.


  502.  #502Siena on April 15, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    I’m somewhat flirtatious by nature. But not in a sexual way… just in a fun way. It feels fun to me to tease and joke around. But I do that with everyone, not just men. It’s part of who I am, and I don’t want to shut that down. I’m also totally uninterested in other women’s men. I’ve had women really not like me because of the way I play, so I’ve toned it down. But in toning it down, I’ve lost a little part of my genuine self! It’s really not a sexual thing for me – it’s just part of making my days (and life) fun.

  503.  #503Lucy on April 15, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    Siena – wow, this feels interesting. To get the “message,” I would ask myself, “How do I feel?” and then feel my way back through time looking for situations that carry the same emotional signature, all the way back to childhood.

    It feels intriguing that he would show up again like this, so I would want to explore whether it links to anything else in my child self/psyche.

  504.  #504heartbeat on April 15, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    Off to bed a little early, sirens – feeling tired from an early start and also very good after a leisurely afternoon with Eco-builder πŸ™‚ I feel so at ease with him, I feel heard, I feel turned on (cancel order for horny goat weed), I like how he’s not pushy yet keeps in contact, asks me out etc. I really notice my walls too, how they come up after a couple of hours, I don’t want them to. It’s like an unsettled feeling, like I want to run away, but I don’t really want to run away. I can feel them coming down too. xx

  505.  #505Siena on April 15, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    wow Lucy, you’re right! Yesterday was pinky peni man, today is this guy (we need a nickname). Your “How do I feel” tool helped me uncover that stuff with my mom yesterday, so I’ll try it again today. I’m feeling a little overwhelmed with this stuff coming up out of the woodwork. On one hand, I feel very grateful that everything seems to be moving at lightening speed. On the other hand, I’m feeling a little exhausted (can you be a *little* exhausted?)

    Dear God, thank you for all the lessons. I really really appreciate them! If I may – I would love to be able to learn how it feels to rest quietly with someone (a-hem, M!) who I totally trust and with whom I can be myself. Thank you! P.S. These are very gentle lessons, thank you for that!

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